00:16:07 <elliott> oren: have you ever used a modern smartphone
00:16:24 <Koen_> wait do we have modern smartphones now?
00:16:57 <Koen_> I can't keep up if smartphones are already no longer modern
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00:19:11 <oren> I have used one yes...
00:20:39 <Phantom_Hoover> oren, honestly i don't see any point at all in setting up rigid taxonomies like this
00:21:47 <oren> I dunno if it's a rigid taxonomy, but there are things i would call computers, and i think to call something a computer means you can program it
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00:24:13 <Phantom_Hoover> ok, but that gets complicated when you consider the large category of devices which are programmable, but not by themselves
00:25:16 <Phantom_Hoover> this spans things which are very like 'computers' (smartphones, consoles) to things which are more on the 'advanced calculator' side of things (stuff with upgradable firmware)
00:27:53 <oren> Maybe there's no dividing line, but theres certainly a value of computeriness
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00:28:11 <oren> where a computer is one and a rock is zero
00:29:18 <Phantom_Hoover> that's such an arbitrary concept there's nothing certain about it
00:29:47 <oren> everything is arbitrary but some things are useful
00:30:07 <Taneb> My increasing tendency to wear ties despite not wearing a tie-appropriate shirt is beginning to get attention
00:30:58 <oren> you mean you wear a tie with a t-shirt?
00:31:16 <MDude> You will soon lead the world to a new age of freedom.
00:31:21 <Taneb> With a fleece or a hoodie, generally
00:31:37 <zzo38> At least my opinion is that a computer should have programming tools built-in; that is the minimal software it should come with, although it is useful to have more
00:31:51 <oren> Taneb: I... you... what
00:31:58 <MDude> Or wardrobe freedom anyway.
00:32:19 <Taneb> oren, that is the reaction I get from most people
00:32:24 <Taneb> And the reaction I strive for in life
00:33:11 <oren> OK you know what, I'll do that tomorrow
00:33:19 <Phantom_Hoover> i got that reaction for a while because of how i walked up the stairs in lectures
00:33:27 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, oh?
00:33:49 <oren> when giving them you mean?
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00:35:05 <oren> So you enter via the downstairs entrance and then climb to your seat?
00:35:29 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, can you describe your stairclimbing method?
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00:38:44 <Taneb> Sometimes when I am sat in the middle of a row near the front and want to leave at the end of a lecture, I clamber over the seats in front of me rather than wait for the people around me to move
00:47:15 <oren> Anyway what if wearing ties with inappropriate shirts becomes a trend?
00:47:53 <Taneb> Then I will be a trendsetter
00:52:40 <oren> Well I have a presentation, which Ubisoft will be seeing as guests, tomorrow, so we'll see...
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01:28:09 <MDude> Is your presentation on the importance to have arms, legs, and a neck?
01:29:06 <Jafet> I somehow doubt that oren is going out on a limb like that.
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01:49:14 <lambdabot> CYUL 040120Z 15014G20KT 1SM R24R/3500VP6000FT/U R24L/4500VP6000FT/U -SN DRSN VV008 M05/M07 A2970 RMK SN8 PRESFR SLP059
01:49:33 <boily> Taneb: TANELLE! AAAAAAAAAAAH!
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01:57:03 <oren> Mdude: Hahahahaha holy shit dude. Nah, we're presenting the beta of our game
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02:02:40 <MDude> Sounds nice, hope that's going well then.
02:03:10 <MDude> Maybe I should put up what I have for this language up on the wiki as a prelimenary design.
02:28:54 <zzo38> I making Famicom Z-machine; the full picture is 32x30 tiles, but some of recommended overscan amounts suggest 30x26 or 28x24 instead; how much do you think would be enough?
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03:51:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:MDude/Sipper]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42093 * MDude * (+3084) Created page with "Sipper is a reversible programming language designed with the idea of reversible logic as a requisite of physically reversible computers that can used to increase energy effic..."
03:51:23 <MDude> I don't know how to get thigns formatted.
03:51:28 <oren> This doesn't look bad, it just looks weird: http://ctrlv.in/511789
03:55:48 <oren> MDude: Uh, how do you want it formatted?
03:57:09 <MDude> Mostly the list of commands made into a list.
03:57:52 <MDude> I'll see how another page does it.
03:58:40 <oren> The first comment wasn't a comment on the article, it was acomment on wearing a tie with non-formal clothes
04:02:10 <MDude> But yeah, that is too much tag entering for this late at night.
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04:18:02 <Sgeo> So, apparently Chrome hilights detected XSS in red in view source
04:21:46 <Sgeo> That's my best guess as to how something managed to get hilighted red
04:21:48 <Sgeo> when I viewed source
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06:35:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42094&oldid=40998 * Thatguy25252525 * (+361) Added Minsky Machine code
06:38:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ATZ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42095&oldid=42094 * Thatguy25252525 * (+20)
06:42:31 <elliott> fizzie: are we ever going to get HSTS for esolangs.org? :p
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09:03:06 <Jafet> Just use TLS on port 80
09:11:55 <Taneb> Hmm, I seem to be have been Tanelled just after I went to bed last night
09:18:06 <Taneb> In any case, may you all live in , I'm heading out.
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10:27:21 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> My increasing tendency to wear ties despite not wearing a tie-appropriate shirt is beginning to get attention <-- choosemytie.com is available hth
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10:28:18 <oerjan> and also, i accidentally discovered by triggering bing, was apparently registered some years ago.
10:29:44 <oerjan> (i don't use bing, but it's still the default thing which happens when the address bar doesn't understand a url)
10:31:40 <oren> Hmm? what web browser has bing by default?
10:32:17 <oren> I set firefox to do bing, but that's just me being weird
10:32:27 <oerjan> there might be some other which microsoft has bought into...
10:33:05 <b_jonas> oerjan: um, you know you can change that or disable it entirely
10:34:30 <oerjan> sorry, but right now i am preoccupied with hearing a weird sound and desperately hoping it's not the neighbors' dog
10:36:20 <oerjan> b_jonas: on my list of things that annoy me, that is actually rather low. mostly because i rarely write things into the address bar these days without expecting autocompletion.
10:36:30 <oren> Weird sounds in my neighbourhood are usually drunken girls screaming
10:36:42 <oerjan> the sound is still there :(
10:36:58 <oerjan> oren: hm not much screaming around here, fortunately
10:37:05 <oren> I live in the centre of a party district
10:37:43 <oren> your neighbourhood is probably nice and quiet
10:38:06 <oerjan> it sounds _almost_ like someone could be washing windows, i hope it's that
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10:39:23 <oren> Maybe it's that scraping sound that inadequately lubricated windshield wipers make
10:40:05 <oerjan> yes that's what it sounds like, but you cannot here outside cars from here like that
10:41:09 <oerjan> i am mainly hoping for window washing because that's not something which naturally keeps going forever.
10:41:49 <oerjan> some sounds are very well isolated here, others mysteriously get through.
10:43:09 <oren> I think there is a psychological aspect to that though. I rarely am bothered anymore by the sound of pumping bass or revving motorcycles...
10:44:46 <oren> So i got surprised when my friend said there was an annoying person revving a motorcycle, and I said what motorcycle?
10:47:10 <oren> Hmm... i wonder if building walls can act as dichroicfilters for sound...
10:51:08 <oren> All it would take is different materials with different speeds of sound, like glass and air...
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11:26:46 <newsham> http://www.pagetable.com/?p=824 <- 8080 sim for 6502.
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11:54:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semi-quantum]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42096&oldid=41886 * Mazeman * (+1) /* Input */
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14:44:31 <oerjan> the bots keep running off
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15:01:21 <fizzie> Not answering to ssh either.
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15:11:15 <Taneb> oerjan, I don't have enough ties to justify letting other people choose my tie
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15:22:24 <Taneb> I only have like 4
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15:33:03 <Koen__> your cumputer could decide for you
15:33:29 <Koen__> with a simple flowchart algorithm
15:34:30 <Koen__> "is this a very formal event? yes -> pick the formal tie. is this a fancy event? yes -> pick the fancy tie"
15:36:58 <oerjan> is this a very shoddy event
15:40:45 <lambdabot> git clone git://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot.git
15:41:02 <Koen__> I try to avoid those but I guess you should pick the very shoddy tie if you have one
15:41:50 <oerjan> my brain has some trouble connecting int-e to his real name
15:43:29 <oerjan> if you are implying you have a railroad tie, i demand url
15:43:43 <TieSleep> dammit I'm getting notified by all those ties.
15:44:19 <oerjan> TieSleep: i think you have no one to blame but yourself, really
15:44:37 <oerjan> also, it was probably time to get up anyway
15:48:20 <int-e> oerjan: you can still find it via github, it's just one or two more clicks
15:48:58 <oerjan> on the bright side, i _did_ remember james cook's nickname
15:49:28 <int-e> (There are many ways, but the one I thought of was to look at the members of the lambdabot "organization")
15:50:17 <oerjan> int-e: well the way i got to this state was by reading your lambdabot 5.0 announcement in the haskell-cafe archive and not remembering it was you
15:50:20 <int-e> I *guess* it would be friendlier to have lambdabot give an https URL for cloning.
15:50:47 <oerjan> as in, to me you are more int-e than you're bertram
15:50:57 <int-e> oerjan: I'll admit that it's a bit tricky, since I'm not using my "private" e-mail address on haskell-cafe.
15:54:33 <oerjan> wow :t and :k now work in private message
15:55:07 <oerjan> (that's like the first silly thing i remembered about lambdabot)
15:55:39 <oerjan> otoh i noticed the other day there was some command @@ didn't see
15:56:18 <oerjan> or maybe it also got fixed
15:56:55 <oerjan> i don't remember what it was :/
15:58:07 <oerjan> hm _that_ doesn't work in priv
15:58:25 <oerjan> and that works neither place
15:58:35 <oerjan> so still a bit of inconsistency left
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16:11:35 <int-e> good, we don't want lambdabot to become predictable
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16:12:52 <int-e> Koen__: just a little joke
16:13:33 <Koen__> I was afraid you really didn't know what 2+2 was so I tried to help
16:14:15 <int-e> Oh. That was oerjan. But The Point(tm) there was a different one.
16:15:27 <gamemanj> ...Is it just me, or is that text coloured?
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16:19:40 <oerjan> Koen__: 2+2 = 1 (mod 3) hth
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16:20:21 <Koen__> is mod the same thing as + ?
16:20:42 <gamemanj> mod is the remainder of a division.
16:21:02 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:7: parse error on input ‘=’
16:21:15 <oerjan> a = b (mod m) <=> a-b = k*m for some integer k
16:21:18 <int-e> Koen__: a = b (mod c) is special notation: it means that a - b is divisible by c.
16:21:19 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num ((a0 -> a0 -> a0) -> a1 -> t))
16:21:20 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for ‘e_11245’
16:21:20 <lambdabot> from the context (GHC.Num.Num ((a -> a -> a) -> a2 -> t),
16:22:13 <int-e> so 4 = 1 (mod 3) but also 1 = 4 (mod 3) or 100 = 7777 (mod 3)
16:22:52 <oerjan> gamemanj: in haskell, ordinary identifiers need `` around them to be used infix.
16:23:23 <oerjan> > (+) 2 2 -- parentheses do the opposite for operator identifiers
16:24:28 <oerjan> > 124 ` mod ` 5 -- just wondering
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17:58:03 <oerjan> fizzie couldn't get ssh contact
17:58:26 <oerjan> (and HackEgo is gone too, being on the same server)
17:58:30 <int-e> I can't access my own $UNNAMEDPROVIDER VM either.
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17:59:33 <int-e> fizzie: still there?
17:59:41 <int-e> fnordbot: still there?
17:59:41 <fnordbot> int-e: here all the time, but that was just how they wanted to be a hell of a lot. " so," said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so," said ford, " you reckon, what's the problem? " the universe, you see,", he said to a small lump of green and blue. " who?" " tell us!" " alright," said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's
17:59:46 <int-e> tab completion is hard.
18:00:24 <oerjan> well unless $UNNAMEDPROVIDER = cloudatcost, it seems unlikely to be related?
18:00:34 <int-e> oerjan: but it is.
18:00:59 <int-e> (fn*rdbot is on the same host as lambdabot, which is a different provider)
18:02:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: To the finder of this bottle: I'm a fungot trapped in a house which may or may not now have internet but there's no one there to connect me | ZFC is a ChuChu rocket. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
18:02:53 <oerjan> or maybe it wasn't until tomorrow
18:03:20 <int-e> . o O ( The word "internet" wandered around in his mind in search of something to connect with. )
18:03:49 <oerjan> i shall ascribe this to the general unraveling of the world
18:04:15 <int-e> And a general lack of the letter 'l'.
18:04:49 <int-e> though knowing my luck that's probably a BE/AE thing.
18:05:16 <int-e> My brain wants to type "unravelling".
18:06:01 <oerjan> google says unraveling wins
18:06:04 <int-e> Oh well http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.5694 disagrees with me.
18:06:42 <int-e> oerjan: yes, but only by a factor of 2, which I regard as evidence for the BE/AE theory.
18:07:06 <oerjan> IE tries to automatically add .no to that url for some reason
18:07:16 <Koen__> I want unravelling too. Unraveling sounds like you're destroying maurice ravel's music
18:07:47 * int-e wonders what "ultra-properties" are...
18:07:56 <oerjan> ultra-properties? are they using ultrafilters on the poor rewriting systems
18:08:10 <oerjan> hey are we being redundant again.
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18:08:43 * oerjan gives Koen__ some undead ravioli
18:09:20 <oerjan> unraveling ravioli revenants
18:09:29 <int-e> No, they're just looking at the unraveled CTRS and checking the properties on that. (The last sentence probably won't make any sense.)
18:10:15 <oerjan> 's ok nothing in this channel makes sense to anyone more than 20 years in the past anyway
18:10:27 * int-e skips the remaining 48 pages of the paper.
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18:12:45 <oerjan> you're better than me, i skipped the remaining 48 lines of the abstract
18:13:27 <oerjan> (the line count is obviously wrong but it's ok it'll never be evaluated anyway)
18:14:34 <oerjan> btw am i correct that MPTCs don't guarantee typeclass coherence even if you avoid ghc's technical orphan instance definition
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18:15:20 <oerjan> i think MPTCs aren't needed
18:16:01 <fizzie> For the record, still no SSH.
18:16:22 <int-e> The orphan instances prevent the diamond scenario (class and type defined in A get too instances in B and C that can both be accessed somehow (invisble in the type) from a module D)
18:16:40 <fizzie> int-e: You're running a fungot clone on the same thing as a lambdabot? Nifty.
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18:17:00 <fizzie> In other fungot news, my ISP (in London) emailed me yesterday that the Internet is all there now.
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18:17:13 <oerjan> instance SomeClass (MyTC a) vs. instance SomeClass (f MyType) can exist in different modules, neither being technically orphans, and you can get SomeClass (MyTC MyType) resolved differently in two different modules that are both indirectly used from main
18:17:14 <fizzie> Helps a lot, considering. (Hello from sunny California.)
18:18:37 * oerjan inspired by http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2xoq3f/haskell_package_dependencies_why_all_the/
18:18:51 <int-e> fizzie: It seems benign enough. And I don't expect any advanced, persistent attackers. It's running as a separate user which I deemed to be good enough.
18:21:22 -!- oerjan has set topic: To the finder of this bottle: I'm a fungot trapped in a house with Internet but no one there to connect me | ZFC is a ChuChu rocket. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
18:22:05 <int-e> It is an Edward Kmett package. So ultimately he adds everything that is needed to get smooth interaction with lens without orphan instances...
18:22:30 <oerjan> oh the reddit discussion
18:22:35 * int-e goes read a couple of comments.
18:23:40 <oerjan> my idea of getting a diamond problem without triggering GHC's orphan warning isn't _directly_ based on that, just inspired by the orphan mentions
18:23:52 <oerjan> i should try and test this
18:25:16 <oerjan> grmble i'm not used to making multimodule programs
18:26:50 <int-e> (It's sad that avoiding orphan instances makes modular package design so hard.)
18:27:32 <int-e> because for any datatype and class, you have to somehow define which is more fundamental, and therefore gets to be defined before the other.
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18:29:12 <arjanb> i hope this gets worse so they will finally fix the whole modules and packaging mess
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18:32:41 <fizzie> int-e: If you actually own a VPS at $UNNAMEDPROVIDER, you could check out their web console or whatnot, if they have one.
18:32:54 <fizzie> int-e: I think I've heard of Gregor fixing things by restarting the server there.
18:36:04 <int-e> I probably don't care much since all there is on that VM is a web server with a glorified (haha) "under construction" sign.
18:40:32 <int-e> besides their control panel looks down as well.
18:40:42 <int-e> (so much for not caring)
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18:49:00 <oerjan> int-e: http://lpaste.net/121559 or http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/UnOrphans
18:52:30 <int-e> . o O ( FlexibleInstances: Mostly harmless.
18:53:16 <oerjan> an MPTC would "obviously" work as well
18:54:26 <int-e> FWIW, instance A (f C) makes me feel queasy.
18:55:02 <oerjan> but you've seen worse things involving kinds recently...
18:55:42 <int-e> Sometimes, kind isn't.
18:56:37 <oerjan> i hope the new Typeable inference is on schedule, i haven't seen anything mentioned for a while
18:58:40 <arjanb> it has been quiet for a while with the icfp deadline last weekend, now is a good time to start poking again...
19:00:44 <int-e> Fun: http://sprunge.us/FXCj (Many hundreds of scouts were sent out, but only two returned, reporting that they couldn't find the enemy.)
19:01:39 <Koen__> the other didn't quit and are still looking
19:04:20 <int-e> (also sprunge is working again, yay!)
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22:03:32 <elliott> fizzie: you just moved and you're on holiday already? :p
22:03:37 <elliott> or is this some google thing
22:05:17 <Taneb> I got a headhunting email from Google last week
22:05:28 <Taneb> Not quite sure what to make of it
22:07:23 <int-e> elliott: <fizzie> [...] Though it's just a business trip. Google seems to want all new employees to be dazzled by their "main" campus for a week or two.
22:07:56 <elliott> I thought fizzie already did that, though.
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23:49:24 <zzo38> Why does an executable file compiled with GNU C sometimes get zeroed out (resulting in a "Program too big to fit in memory") error?