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01:26:59 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.
01:27:08 <boily> fsck fsck fsck fsck fsck.
01:27:37 * boily metaphorically flips the mapole over
01:30:51 * oerjan suspects boily to be a little annoyed
01:32:35 <boily> probably my best YASD, and a first.
01:34:10 * oerjan uses acronym recognition. it's super effective!
01:35:12 <oerjan> no, gg doesn't update in several hours yet. well, normally.
01:35:32 <boily> are we speaking about the same gg twh?
01:36:25 <oerjan> surely there's only one gg hth
01:37:07 * oerjan checks freefall in the meantime
01:37:41 <boily> no, they aren't the same gges.
01:38:42 <boily> *ONOMATOPOIETIC REVELATION*
01:39:51 * oerjan wonders if that minus ten is celsius or fahrenheit, although the latter would probably be anachronistic in a scifi comic.
01:41:33 <oerjan> hm no gg update for today but an extra announcement yesterday
01:42:04 <Jafet> dcss has deep gameplay.
01:43:46 <boily> Jafet: I was doing Cocytus after having completed Dis. I drowned in Coc:7. very shameful.
01:48:01 <oerjan> how can one drown in cocytus, it should be completely frozen over. </obscure origin quibbling>
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01:51:22 <boily> oerjan: no ice in crawl hth
01:52:03 <boily> there's shallow water, there's deep water. there's even laval! but no ice.
01:53:58 <boily> oh well. time to sleep.
01:54:28 <oren> laval? what is a rocket engine nozzle doing in hell?
01:55:13 <boily> oren: helloren. you haven't seen anything there. muscle memory strikes again... Laval University is where I studied.
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01:57:33 <oerjan> @ask boily So, why did you study in hell, then?
02:00:59 <Jafet> Rocket nozzles? Or maybe some other burning things.
02:15:56 <zzo38> Search opponent's hand, draw pile, side cards, and trash for any number of evolution cards that can evolve from opponent's pokemons already in play and/or the other cards you picked; you must then play all such cards on opponent's side to evolve their pokemons (if there is more than one way, you can choose); opponent's draw pile and side cards are mixed up afterward.
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02:24:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hi\n]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43089&oldid=43069 * Xavo * (+315)
02:25:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Xavo]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43090 * Xavo * (+35) Created page with "Oh hey there. I made [[Hi\n|hi\n]."
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02:26:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Xavo]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43091&oldid=43090 * Xavo * (+4)
02:27:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Xavo]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43092&oldid=43091 * Xavo * (-1)
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02:29:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43093&oldid=42994 * Xavo * (+50) /* General languages */
02:36:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hi\n]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43094&oldid=43089 * Xavo * (+129) added ruby interpreter
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03:24:12 * rdococ stays alive by the terrible garbage collection
03:28:09 <zzo38> Now I even made up two vanguard cards of Magic: the Gathering.
03:30:36 <zzo38> Axenwhite's Avatar {-} Vanguard (+0/+1) ;; Whenever you would draw a card, if you have already drawn a card this turn, instead an opponent of your choice draws a card and you gain 1 life. ;; {4}: Each player draws a card. You may put the top card of your graveyard on top of your library.
03:31:05 <zzo38> Gxxyuxihuvxi's High Avatar {-} Vanguard (-2/+1) ;; All nonland cards you own with a mana cost gain madness with a madness cost equal to their mana cost plus {3} and all normal single-colored mana symbols changed into Phyrexian mana of that color. ;; All lands you control gain "{T}, Discard a card: Add {1} to your mana pool or you may reduce your maximum hand size by one until the beginning of the next turn."
03:38:48 <zzo38> Do you have any more feature suggestion and/or complaint and/or question of AmigaMML?
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04:08:57 <oren> the last levels of mario bros U are impossibru
04:15:35 <zzo38> Is "impossibru" even a real word?
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04:26:21 <oren> not a real word, but a meme word
04:26:44 <oren> and yeah, they are at least as hard as the hardest classic games
04:28:45 <zzo38> OK, then that is good if it is not too easy.
04:29:17 <oren> Also, they throw this new tilt mechanic at you in the last world, where you tilt the controller.
04:30:19 <zzo38> Is it in the manual?
04:30:49 <zzo38> Well, that's no good. They should put it in the manual that you have to tilt the controller.
04:31:27 <oren> There's an icon that appears on the screen telling you that you have to tilt it, but it is still annoying
04:32:33 <Lyka|Phone> the current version of octopus (aka fourfuck) runs fully off of an sd card
04:33:33 <Lyka|Phone> the interpreter is still on the device
04:34:28 <Lyka|Phone> hard part right now is modifying the code to allow subroutines
04:37:10 <Lyka|Phone> I wrote a guess a number program to test the system
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04:54:38 <Sgeo> How did I accidentally close out of #esoteric?
04:55:12 <Sgeo> It's like I didn't autorejoin when i opened IRC
04:55:22 <Sgeo> Autojoin was unchecked :(
05:00:52 <oren> I BEAT BOWSER!
05:32:28 <Sgeo> DOSBox runs on the web?
05:34:15 <Sgeo> https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos
05:34:45 <Sgeo> I wonder when today's expensive machines will be trivially emulatable
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05:45:39 <Sgeo> For some reason I thought Tucows stopped existing
05:52:34 <Sgeo> https://archive.org/details/stop-the-rock
05:52:40 <Sgeo> I need to play this again ASASP
05:56:39 <Sgeo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbXfyH0rt3M&index=1&list=PL60DDD0F77698B8EB
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07:16:10 <oren> people who are writing javascript should not abbreviate google analytics to googanal
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07:18:58 <oren> because it is visible to users
07:18:58 <zzo38> When are they going to invent quantum bitcoins?
07:20:57 <zzo38> If <X| is constant and |Y> varies, if <X|Y> = 0 implies <X|T|Y> = 0 then what is the property of T called?
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07:58:45 <mroman_> fungot: welcome to the fnord
07:58:45 <fungot> mroman_: go's confusing... i like ruby kind of a vacation but after 7 months it's getting seriously old and there's still battery left.
07:59:52 <mroman_> fungot: Have you heard of the random busy beaver?
07:59:53 <fungot> mroman_: and the fnord is likely to be i/ o would probably be a presentation by shriram krishnamurthi and is at +1 digs atm
08:00:06 <mroman_> It's like the busy beaver except that the tape is initialized completely randomly.
08:01:31 <mroman_> and RBB(n) is the expected number of ones a random busy beaver with n states writes on the tape while still halting.
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09:30:54 <oren> compression scheme: replace any file that has been archived by the internet archive, with a text file containing the URL. if it hasn't been, the compressor shall upload the file and wait for it to be archived
09:32:42 <oren> this compression scheme exceeds the capabilities of known compressors manyfold, for interesting inputs
09:33:27 <b_jonas> oren: that would be bad for small files
09:33:31 <b_jonas> do it for large files only
09:33:36 <b_jonas> and ones that are rarely accessed
09:33:58 <b_jonas> uploading a terabyte sized database file after each single write would be very bad
09:38:34 <b_jonas> anyway, that's a variant on Linus's old saying
09:39:14 <b_jonas> Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it – Linus Torvalds
09:39:22 <b_jonas> from http://groups.google.com/group/linux.dev.kernel/msg/76ae734d543e396d?pli=1
09:54:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43095&oldid=43088 * 72.74.32.143 * (-2) Fixed a mistake in the documentation
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12:29:56 <rdococ> "Last In, First Out (LIFO)"? "What is pushed onto the stack first, will be popped off last"? ... contradiction?
12:31:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43096&oldid=30976 * Rdococ * (+0) corrected a puzzling contradiction
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12:58:30 <mroman_> that's a read only storage capable of storing one element
12:59:24 <mroman_> FOLO is read once - write never
13:05:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43097&oldid=43096 * 0x0dea * (+0) LIFO and FILO are equivalent, but the former is more common and, in this case as in most, better conveys intent.
13:09:20 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 <zzo38> If <X| is constant and |Y> varies, if <X|Y> = 0 implies <X|T|Y> = 0 then what is the property of T called? <-- i think that's equivalent to "X is an eigenvector of T^*"
13:09:31 <mroman_> also there's the LILO Queue
13:11:31 <mroman_> which is the same as a FIFO Queue
13:18:24 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 because if <X|T| is not proportional to <X|, then an application of gram-schmidt gives you a vector |Y> that's orthogonal to the first but not the last one
13:21:31 <mroman_> I'm so tired of these LOFO Queues.
13:22:00 <mroman_> Is gram-schmidt the base change thingy?
13:22:14 <oerjan> mroman_: it's the base _finding_ thingy.
13:22:33 <mroman_> orthonormal base finding thingy
13:23:28 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 oops *last but not the first one
13:25:01 <oerjan> nah i don't blame that
13:25:17 <oerjan> it carries its own punishment.
13:25:34 <mroman_> I blame log-normal distributions.
13:27:55 <mroman_> why is "lineare hülle" in english not "linear hull" but "linear span"
13:28:14 <mroman_> I'm just gonna call it linear thingy
13:30:18 <oerjan> there's "convex hull", though.
13:30:57 <mroman_> Math with simple english would be fun
13:31:09 <mroman_> in munroe's "thing explainer"-style
13:31:29 <oerjan> someone pointed out "explainer" is not in the wordlist he uses
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13:39:47 <oerjan> hm actually LIFO is more technically correct than FILO
13:40:17 <oerjan> because only the first applies if you sometimes empty the stack not at the end
13:42:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Friedz * New user account
13:44:56 <mroman_> http://codepad.org/YSumHKy7
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14:41:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fission]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43098&oldid=39076 * 50.207.43.222 * (+43)
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14:45:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43099&oldid=43095 * 50.207.43.222 * (+40)
14:52:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43100&oldid=43099 * SuperJedi224 * (+2) /* Cat Program (9 bytes) */
14:53:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43101&oldid=43100 * SuperJedi224 * (+46)
14:54:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43102&oldid=43101 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* Reverse Quine (12 bytes) */
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15:46:26 <rdococ> I want to make a language where programs are formulae. Unfortunately, the 'Formula' programming language... already exists.
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15:53:45 <MDude> What kind of formula?
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16:06:59 <MDude> You culd call it formulated, or formulations.
16:07:46 <MDude> Or Formulae, and just let their be another language with a name differeing by exactly one letter.
16:13:52 <scoofy> rdococ: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Polynomial
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16:24:09 <rdococ> that language also exists
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16:33:44 <oren> I prefer a FIGO architecture
16:33:57 <oren> first in, garbage out
16:34:31 <oren> although a GIFO might be more useful
16:35:48 <oren> how about formoola
16:35:56 <pikhq> Could you maybe work on garbage in code out?
16:36:17 <rdococ> GIOO: garbage in, output out... oh wait... its called malbolge...
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17:00:16 <scoofy> garbage in, garbage out
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17:55:39 <zzo38> " _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it" ... I might sometimes to backup on DVD (currently I can't though), but still I wish to allow rest of the world to mirror my public stuff anyways; not FTP though, but I do have HTTP and Gopher servers. If you want to make your own public archives of text file and free software and so on you can mirror mine if it is something that would go in what kind of a
17:55:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 46m 27s ago: <zzo38> If <X| is constant and |Y> varies, if <X|Y> = 0 implies <X|T|Y> = 0 then what is the property of T called? <-- i think that's equivalent to "X is an eigenvector of T^*"
17:55:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 37m 24s ago: because if <X|T| is not proportional to <X|, then an application of gram-schmidt gives you a vector |Y> that's orthogonal to the first but not the last one
17:55:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 32m 20s ago: oops *last but not the first one
18:06:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Huh?]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43103&oldid=42216 * 72.38.29.19 * (+64) /* External resources */
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18:41:55 * Error !!! Cannot execute an alien
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18:43:25 <Error> /me Segmentation fault!
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18:43:47 * Error #esoteric Segmentation fault!
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18:46:05 <rdococ> Error Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable
18:48:42 <Taneb> Well, I passed my AI module
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18:50:09 <Taneb> Yes but with less D and more AI
18:50:46 <shachaf> what if you just barely pass it
18:51:26 <Taneb> Unfortunately I don't think there are many UK universities with a grade system with Ds
18:52:02 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, more like a Z-module
18:54:16 <rdococ> Oerjan (Talk | contribs) moved page Function to Funciton over a redirect without leaving a redirect
18:54:36 <rdococ> should I still type my language on the Function page?
18:54:52 <rdococ> or should I try to avoid a naming conflict?
18:55:11 <Taneb> Eh, there's two languages called Clue
18:55:15 <Taneb> And two called Numberwang
18:55:21 <Taneb> Not gonna be that big of a deal
18:55:28 <Taneb> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue
18:55:56 <ais523> I was so happy about that
18:56:01 <ais523> because it meant I got to make a disambiguation page
18:56:18 <ais523> or, hmm, seems like it was actually elliott who made the page
18:56:20 <function> rdococ: -NickServ- Registered : Jul 07 17:18:02 2014 (46w 4d 1h ago)
18:58:28 <function> rdococ: -NickServ- Spydar007 has enabled nick protection
18:58:38 <function> rdococ: so if you chose to /nick error and don't identify
19:07:25 <J_Arcane> I think I hate the Mac keyboard.
19:07:44 <ais523> I know I hate the Mac keyboard
19:07:56 <rdococ> I'll call my language 'Delegate'
19:08:21 <J_Arcane> A three-finger combination just to get curly braces on a Finnish is fucking stupid, and I can't seem to find a decent solution to fix it.
19:08:43 <rdococ> I don't have a Mac keyboard
19:09:15 <J_Arcane> I may just have to force myself to relearn a US layout.
19:09:54 <ais523> J_Arcane: because Macs don't have an altgr?
19:10:09 <J_Arcane> Yeah, I guess tha'ts part of the problem.
19:10:30 <J_Arcane> The other part is a whole huge extra bunch of special character shortcuts that I don't need taking up all the space.
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19:37:59 <oren> J_Arcane: set your text format to ISO646-FI. Then write int main()ä printf("hello, world!Ön"); å
19:38:43 <ais523> oren: ISO646 is a subset of ASCII, right;
19:38:56 <ais523> I guess the ä and Ö and å map to ASCII characters?
19:39:09 <oren> Yeah, and ISO646-FI replaces the characters {}\|[] with national ones
19:39:46 <oren> So if you type the program in ISO646-FI, then have the compiler read it as ascii it will work fine
19:39:52 <ais523> this is why trigraphs were invented
19:40:01 <ais523> although digraphs make more sense
19:40:15 <ais523> (the difference is that digraphs aren't parsed inside comments, string literals, and the like)
19:40:31 <ais523> (technically they're alternate spellings of tokens, rather than textual substitutions)
19:40:54 <pikhq> Except trigraphs don't *quite* work for the purpose though -- C still requires those characters to exist, at least at run time.
19:41:13 <pikhq> It also requires them to not vary in encoding with LC_CTYPE and requires them to be in a single char.
19:41:31 <oren> `run echo 'int main()ä printf("hello, world!Ön"); å' | iconv -futf-8 -tiso646-fi
19:41:43 <HackEgo> int main(){ printf("hello, world!\n"); }
19:42:33 <oren> does that help you type, J_Arcane!
19:42:47 <J_Arcane> I don't even know what to do with that information. XD
19:42:49 <pikhq> (though there is no requirement that the source and execution character sets are the *same*...)
19:45:04 <oren> So yeah: []\ => äåö and {}| => ÄÅÖ
19:45:23 <oren> er, that's slighlt wrong
19:45:42 <J_Arcane> That would honestly be my ideal remap, I just can't figure out how to make ukelele do it.
19:48:07 <oren> Well you could always just learn to read code that looks like if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä
19:48:39 <oren> then you can use iconv
19:49:03 <oren> put it in your makefile, annoy everyone who tries to read your code?
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19:50:18 <b_jonas> mind you, you can use _ in some smalltalk variants iirc because it used to mean left arrow in some charsets,
19:50:28 <FireFly> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | tr '[\]{|}' 'ÅÄÖåäö'
19:50:29 <HackEgo> if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä
19:50:32 <b_jonas> and people still use ^ for power because it used to mean up arrow
19:50:40 <FireFly> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | tr 'ÅÄÖåäö' '[\]{|}'
19:50:41 <HackEgo> if(a}|i}] == b}|i}] }}}} a}|i}] == 0 }}}} b}|i}] == 0)}}
19:50:51 <b_jonas> it gets even funnier if you use backslash overwrite stuff in intercal
19:51:10 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | tr 'ÅÄÖåäö' '[]\{}|'
19:51:11 <HackEgo> if(a|}i|] == b|}i|] |||| a|}i|] == 0 |||| b|}i|] == 0)||
19:51:20 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | tr 'ÅÄÖåäö' '[]\\{}|'
19:51:21 <HackEgo> if(a|{i|] == b|{i|] |||| a|{i|] == 0 |||| b|{i|] == 0)||
19:52:09 <oren> oh no unicode support in tr
19:52:13 <FireFly> should the backslash be doubly escaped?
19:52:59 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | perl -pe y/ÅÄÖåäö/[]\\{}|/
19:53:00 <HackEgo> bash: /: Is a directory \ Transliteration replacement not terminated at -e line 1.
19:53:09 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | perl -pe 'y/ÅÄÖåäö/[]\\{}|/'
19:53:10 <HackEgo> if(a[{i[] == b[{i[] [|[| a[{i[] == 0 [|[| b[{i[] == 0)[|
19:53:49 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | sed -e 'y/ÅÄÖåäö/[]\\{}|/'
19:53:52 <HackEgo> if(a]i[ == b]i[ || a]i[ == 0 || b]i[ == 0)}
19:54:05 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | sed -e 'y/ÅÄÖåäö/][\\}{|/'
19:54:06 <HackEgo> if(a[i] == b[i] || a[i] == 0 || b[i] == 0){
19:54:08 <FireFly> What's the point of using the three characters after the English alphabet, if you don't put the letters in the right order?
19:54:37 * FireFly assumed ISO646-{FI,SE} used ÅÄÖåäö
19:54:50 <FireFly> Looks like the danes won this round
19:54:52 <oren> `` echo 'if(aÄiÅ == bÄiÅ öö aÄiÅ == 0 öö bÄiÅ == 0)ä' | iconv -futf-8 -tiso646-fi
19:54:53 <HackEgo> if(a[i] == b[i] || a[i] == 0 || b[i] == 0){
19:55:35 <b_jonas> mind you, I'm not sure ??< char buf??(256??); scanf("%.256s", buf); printf("hello, %s??/n", buf); ??> looks that much better than é char bufÉ256Ü; scanf("%.256s", buf); printf("hello, %sÖn", buf); ü
19:55:46 <b_jonas> and the latter is at least easy to type, and you can get used to reading it
19:56:16 <oren> I got used to half my fonts having yen signs pretty quick
19:56:33 <b_jonas> in the old era with home PCs with no back storage and only a BASIC interpreter, there used to be ones that that had localized fonts in the rom, and some rarer characters like # displayed wrong,
19:56:43 <FireFly> `` for lang in fi se no dk; do iconv -f utf-8 -t iso646-$lang <<<'[\]{|}'; done
19:56:44 <HackEgo> iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0
19:56:57 <b_jonas> so the statement to write to a file was like PRINTÉ rather than PRINT#
19:57:05 <b_jonas> that's not even iso646 by the way
19:57:58 <b_jonas> there's a good reason BASIC doesn't use any of @[]^{|}~ and only newer variants use \_
19:58:25 <b_jonas> they do use ^ but that's fine, it's just displayed as an up arrow
19:58:37 <zzo38> Yes, on some old ASCII systems it is up arrow
19:58:50 <b_jonas> I wouldn't call those ASCII but sure
19:58:53 <oren> `` for lang in fi se no dk; do iconv -futf-8 -tiso646-$lang <<<'[\]{|}'; done
19:58:54 <HackEgo> iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0
19:58:56 <b_jonas> some ASCII-derived systems
19:59:07 <b_jonas> before everyone converged to ASCII
19:59:12 <FireFly> Can you transmit BASIC with Baudot code in letter mode?
19:59:12 <zzo38> Actually I think the one with up arrow is still ASCII, just it is a old kind of ASCII
19:59:20 <oren> `` for lang in fi se no dk; do iconv -tutf-8 -fiso646-$lang <<<'[\]{|}'; done
19:59:21 <HackEgo> ÄÖÅäöå \ ÄÖÅäöå \ ÆØÅæøå \ ÆØÅæøå
19:59:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: what? is left arrow for _ and yen sign for ` and pound sign for # ASCII too?
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20:00:14 <FireFly> Yes, hence the ¥ in filenames
20:00:36 <b_jonas> FireFly: that's never made sense to me though
20:01:22 <b_jonas> PCs used cp437 in text mode from the start, and that has a yen symbol
20:01:34 <b_jonas> what variant of DOS ever used such terminals?
20:01:53 <b_jonas> maybe some serial terminal stuff when you don't have an expensive cga or monochrome card?
20:02:06 <b_jonas> or did the monochrome card not support 437?
20:02:07 <oren> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fko17 <<<'DMITRIJ'
20:02:08 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `ko17' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
20:02:15 <oren> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fKO17 <<<'DMITRIJ'
20:02:16 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `KO17' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
20:02:22 <oren> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fKOI7 <<<'DMITRIJ'
20:02:23 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `KOI7' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
20:02:45 <b_jonas> or is this about graphics mode where you could display only the low 128 characters because you couldn't read the vga card rom directly and the rom had a copy of only half of the font and ram is expensive?
20:02:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.7875
20:03:28 <b_jonas> maybe it's for VGA cards where you could change the font]
20:03:33 <oren> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fKOI-7 <<<'dmitrij'
20:03:33 <FireFly> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fkoi-7 <<<'DMITRIJ'
20:03:40 <b_jonas> and you changed the font to match a legacy character set used for non-DOS
20:05:04 <oren> koi7 is fun because the letters are roughly corresponding to the equivalent roman letters
20:05:37 <fizzie> b_jonas: I was under the impression that it's legitimately an up-arrow in ASCII-63 (ASA X3.4-1963), and all this about a ^ is just newfangled ASCII-67 (ANSI X3.4-1967) nonsense.
20:05:45 <FireFly> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fkoi-7 <<<USSR
20:05:45 <zzo38> How can I program Mozilla to refuse to accept cookies with certain names?
20:05:57 <ais523> zzo38: I think the easiest way would be to write an extension
20:06:02 <b_jonas> FireFly: dunno, probably because baudot has like a ton of incompatible national character sets. you could make a BASIC character set easily.
20:06:05 <oren> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fKOI7 <<<'SSSR'
20:06:06 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `KOI7' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
20:06:12 <oren> `` iconv -tutf-8 -fKOI-7 <<<'SSSR'
20:06:14 <ais523> I started writing an extension to edit the URL for Wikia to add &useskin=monobook or ?useskin=monobook, but got fed p
20:06:19 <ais523> so now I do it by hand
20:06:20 <zzo38> Yes, but how do you do such extension?
20:06:29 <ais523> I think there are guides on the Mozilla website somewhere
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20:06:40 <b_jonas> `` piconv -tutf-8 -fKOI-7 <<<'SSSR'
20:06:41 <HackEgo> Unknown option: tutf-8 \ Unknown option: fKOI-7 \ piconv [-f from_encoding] [-t to_encoding] [-s string] [files...] \ piconv -l \ piconv -r encoding_alias \ -l,--list \ lists all available encodings \ -r,--resolve encoding_alias \ resolve encoding to its (Encode) canonical name \ -f,--from from_encoding \ when omitted, the cur
20:06:50 <b_jonas> `` piconv -t utf-8 -f KOI-7 <<<'SSSR' # fool
20:06:51 <HackEgo> Unknown encoding 'KOI-7' at /usr/bin/piconv line 95
20:07:01 <b_jonas> `` piconv -t utf-8 -f KOI-RU <<<'SSSR' # fool
20:07:02 <HackEgo> Unknown encoding 'KOI-RU' at /usr/bin/piconv line 95
20:07:07 <FireFly> For something simple like the monobook thing I would just write a userscript and use Scriptish
20:07:44 <HackEgo> Unknown option: version \ piconv [-f from_encoding] [-t to_encoding] [-s string] [files...] \ piconv -l \ piconv -r encoding_alias \ -l,--list \ lists all available encodings \ -r,--resolve encoding_alias \ resolve encoding to its (Encode) canonical name \ -f,--from from_encoding \ when omitted, the current locale will be used
20:07:49 <b_jonas> (piconv also doesn't have CWI encoding)
20:08:24 <fizzie> `run iconv -tascii//translit -fKOI-7 <<<'SSSR'
20:08:34 <fizzie> Aw, come on, you can totally approximate that just fine.
20:08:42 <b_jonas> I guess you have to try libICU, that has like a ton of encodings
20:10:52 <FireFly> `` iconv -tascii/translit -futf-8 <<<'ほたる'
20:10:52 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion to `ascii/translit' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
20:11:04 <FireFly> `` iconv -tascii//translit -futf-8 <<<'ほたる'
20:11:15 <b_jonas> for ascii approximations, try the big table in elinks. that rewrites cyrillic characters to ascii and stuff like that.
20:11:38 <b_jonas> double slash because single slash can occur in character set names
20:11:40 <zzo38> I want to make Mozilla to modify some cookies as it is receiving them
20:11:55 <b_jonas> and someone would eventually come up with one ending in /translit probably
20:11:56 <zzo38> What is the hook for that?
20:12:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: are the cookies set by http response headers or by javascript? you can try a proxy that rewrites either the request or response headers
20:13:01 <zzo38> I don't know who they are set by
20:13:18 <fizzie> `run iconv -tascii//translit -futf-8 <<<'bläh blööh blårp'
20:13:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: http or https? rewrite them in the request
20:13:23 <fizzie> It can do those, at least.
20:13:23 <FireFly> I stumbled upon an archaic APL encoding a while ago that had characters for underlined ASCII letters and digits, and was a bit surprised to not find any Unicode codepoints matching them exactly (but a combining underline did the job just fine)
20:13:28 <b_jonas> unless they're also _read_ by javascript
20:14:23 <b_jonas> FireFly: doesn't underlined ascii letter just represent uppercase when the tty can't print lowercase letters?
20:14:45 <FireFly> What is an uppercase digit though?
20:14:48 <zzo38> I don't know if they are, but mainly, I want it to force all cookies into insecure mode and whenever it tries to set a cookie named "forceHTTPS" to set its value to "0" instead of the value it is trying to set.
20:14:59 <FireFly> I think there were underlined letters of both cases, too
20:15:10 <b_jonas> FireFly: is there full underlined set of digits, or just 0?
20:15:26 <b_jonas> ok, probably not that then
20:15:50 <zzo38> These cookies are causing problems with MediaWiki; changing them manually fixes it at least temporarily but sometimes it tries to change it again later
20:15:53 <b_jonas> APL was used on actual printing ttys so they used a lot of overprint to increase the charset
20:16:18 <FireFly> Yeah, this particular charset made use of that by simulating the overstriking
20:16:29 <b_jonas> zzo38: can't you overwrite that in the settings if you're logged in?
20:16:39 <b_jonas> zzo38: or with custom javascript if you're logged in?
20:16:48 <zzo38> b_jonas: No, the new version of MediaWiki seems to have removed that custom setting.
20:17:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: heck... but they still support http?
20:17:19 <zzo38> Yes but only if you edit the cookies manually
20:17:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: I'd recommend custom javascript then. do you know how to set it up in mediawiki? if not, I can tell
20:17:55 <zzo38> Yes I do know how to set that up
20:17:55 <b_jonas> I don't know about globally as an admin
20:18:07 <FireFly> A̲L̲F̲←'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZA̲B̲C̲D̲E̲F̲G̲H̲I̲J̲K̲L̲M̲N̲O̲P̲Q̲R̲S̲T̲U̲V̲W̲X̲Y̲Z̲Δ⍙_⁻' oh, maybe it was just uppercase letters
20:18:18 <b_jonas> though that can cause problems if you want to run with javascript disabled
20:18:25 <FireFly> and they seemed to be used to group letters forming an identifier together
20:18:34 <zzo38> But some cookies may say that you aren't supposed to set them by JavaScripts, too, I think, as well as it won't work if scripts is disabled
20:20:33 <b_jonas> zzo38: maybe try rewriting in a proxy then
20:21:20 <b_jonas> zzo38: wait, try asking on #mediawiki-tech in case they can help
20:21:21 <zzo38> You can type _A_B_C_D and so on and that can then be used by the programming language if it uses underlined letters in your program
20:22:22 <b_jonas> or ask the mediawiki guys elsewhere
20:22:34 <b_jonas> possibly on #mediawiki or on their wiki or something
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20:32:07 <oren> `` echo -e '\e$@47' | iconv -tutf-8 -fiso-2022-JP
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20:35:30 <oren> `` echo -e '\e$@!j' | iconv -tutf-8 -fiso-2022-JP
20:36:51 <oren> `` echo -e '\e$#H#E#L#L#Oj' | iconv -tutf-8 -fiso-2022-JP
20:37:06 <oren> `` echo -e '\e$@#H#E#L#L#Oj' | iconv -tutf-8 -fiso-2022-JP
20:37:07 <HackEgo> ＨＥＬＬＯiconv: illegal input sequence at position 13
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20:38:50 <oren> `` echo -e '\e$@#H#E#L#L#O!!#W#O#R#L#D!*' | iconv -tutf-8 -fiso-2022-JP
20:39:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43104&oldid=43102 * SuperJedi224 * (-2) /* Cat Program (10 bytes) */
20:40:13 <oren> `` echo -e '\102A' | iconv -tutf-8 -fsjis
20:40:51 <oren> `` echo -e '\0102A' | iconv -tutf-8 -fsjis
20:41:49 <oren> `` echo -e '\0202A' | iconv -tutf-8 -fsjis
20:41:50 <HackEgo> iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0
20:43:35 <oren> `` echo -e '\0202Q' | iconv -tutf-8 -fsjis
20:44:36 <oren> shift jis makes a lot less sense than the 7 bit encodings it replaced
20:45:31 <fizzie> `run iconv -tascii//translit -futf-8 <<<'weiß' # also transliterated
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20:50:45 <zzo38> Shift-JIS is still better for fixpitch text that can have narrow and wide letters, than some others though, but still isn't all that perfect
20:53:26 <oren> EUC is better but rarely used
20:53:59 <zzo38> I don't know how EUC works but maybe it is better
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20:57:23 <oren> Well all chars in ascii are one character, and all chars in JIS-208 are two characters, so the width of most strings will equal their length in bytes
20:57:45 <zzo38> Yes that is the good thing about using such encodings for terminal displays
20:58:10 <oren> but it differs in that the half-width katakana are two characters, (but these are rarely used anyway).
21:00:18 <oren> and it removes the issue of ascii bytes occurring inside a double-byte character, hence it can be used in programs designed for ascii
21:00:33 <zzo38> Yes, that is advantage too
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21:01:32 <zzo38> However, a way to fix the issue of the half-width can be to make the prefix to it to be a "control code" and use that prefix only for additional half-width characters. If it already does that then I think it work good
21:03:17 <oren> I really don't like the way Unicode passes over the entire issue of fixed-width. There's no standard for which unicode characters are one space versus two (or even three). At least the defacto japanese standards recognise that the isssue EXISTS...
21:03:35 <zzo38> Unicode is terrible for this purpose, Japanese work better
21:04:02 <oren> The chinese and korean standards work well too
21:04:30 <APic> The eastern World is far beyond us.
21:07:02 <pikhq> oren: Unicode has a DB with precisely that in it though.
21:07:47 <pikhq> And wcswidth should get you exactly that info in C...
21:09:19 <zzo38> It is still a stupid way to do it despite that though
21:10:07 <oren> Ok. So is an EN SPACE halfwidth? What about an EM SPACE or a FIGURE SPACE?
21:10:46 <b_jonas> oren: I thought the use of half-width katakaan was displays that could only handle a single character set of limited size and one character per cell, like VGA, which is limited to a set of at most 512 characters, so I think it would be of no use on a display that supports JIS.
21:10:50 <b_jonas> But maybe it has other uses too.
21:11:22 <b_jonas> oren: yep, that's a problem.
21:11:31 <zzo38> PC character set is good for limited display like that too
21:11:42 <b_jonas> especially because when you output to a terminal, you want to know what widths it uses.
21:11:59 <b_jonas> you can query it from the terminal, but that's a bit ugly.
21:12:14 <b_jonas> (as in, you can query the cursor position, and using that you can tell the width of chars.)
21:12:17 <zzo38> Knowing the widths because wide character are two bytes long is the best way!
21:12:32 <b_jonas> oren: and I think the widths are 0, 1, 2, but never 3. 0 is common.
21:12:33 <zzo38> The other ways are stupid
21:12:53 <oren> Exactly. The music program mocp has overruns and stuff because it assumes all unicode chars are halfwidth
21:13:31 <oren> or smoething... that's the behaviour I observe
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21:15:04 <pikhq> Sadly there's nothing very easily *googleable* about it, but I found the damned spec.
21:15:07 <pikhq> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr11/tr11-28.html
21:16:17 <zzo38> If I write the terminal emulator probabily is not accept Unicode; you have to use VT100 set, PC set, or Japanese set
21:16:56 <zzo38> (Filters can be used if you want to convert from another character coding)
21:17:26 <pikhq> EN SPACE is apparently a narrow character, thus a width of 1. (half-width)
21:18:13 <pikhq> As is FIGURE SPACE and EM SPACE.
21:18:27 <zzo38> In typesetting though, the problems are different. For typesetting, encodings like UTF-8 are OK but all character properties and stuff should be stored in the font metric file, and what exactly a character even is also should depend on the font.
21:18:32 <pikhq> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/EastAsianWidth.txt And that's the DB to look in.
21:18:59 <zzo38> (And these font metrics probably ought to support 32-bit character codes rather than 21-bits)
21:19:05 <oren> that's kind of ridiculous given that a EM SPACE is, in proportional fonts, as wide as a CJK SPACE
21:19:25 <oren> Er, wrong character name. you know what I mean
21:19:45 <oren> they wanted a clean rule though
21:20:21 <pikhq> I'd be unsurprised if thhere was some legacy reason behind that.
21:21:04 <zzo38> What you can do for font metrics though, is if the file format of font metric support include files, you can have include files for versions of Unicode so that if the font is Unicode-based then you can import the character properties.
21:23:31 <oren> hell a TAB is apparently halfwidth!
21:24:34 <pikhq> The hell else would it be?
21:25:02 <oren> technically. it's not even really a character at all
21:25:09 <pikhq> A tab isn't 8 characters, it's cursor position = (cursor position + 1) % 8
21:25:21 <zzo38> Tab is control characters
21:25:37 <pikhq> It's also "whitespace" and "printable"
21:25:44 <oren> right. it's a command to the terminal, not a character for the terminal to display
21:26:25 <oren> and imo it doesn't even belong in non-plaintext files
21:28:25 <fizzie> "cursor position = (cursor position + 1) % 8" might be a people-understand-what-was-meant description, but it's certainly not literally correct.
21:28:44 <pikhq> It was intended as the former not the latter thankfully.
21:43:04 <zzo38> On a PC though if you do use 512 characters text mode then each block of 256 characters is only available in 8 colors; you might use the same colors for each block or different colors.
21:46:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: what? I assumed it just reporpuses the blink/highbackground bit for that, so you can still use 16 foreground colors, but I never really used it
21:48:23 <zzo38> b_jonas: No I think it is the foreground intensity bit; I seem to remember using it once and that is what it does
21:48:42 <zzo38> (I don't know why; using the blink bit might have been better)
21:50:00 <b_jonas> zzo38: ok. I have tried fonts higher than 16 pixels (up to 32 pixels is supported), plus 8 and 9 pixel wide modes (man, 9 pixel is a hack but it's so useful)
21:53:42 <b_jonas> in particular, the vga card is hard-coded to copy the 8th column to the 9th column for characters of code 0xc0 to 0xdf, which works almost perfectly for cp437, but not much for other charsets.
21:54:19 <b_jonas> and that cp437 was designed this way in first place is a lucky artifact from the monochrome display card, because the CGA card has an 8 wide character cell.
21:54:56 <zzo38> Didn't they design it that way due to MDPA?
21:55:19 <zzo38> Monochrome Display and Printer Adapter
21:55:38 <b_jonas> yes, monochrome adapter, that's what I said
21:55:45 <b_jonas> I don't know if the printer is relevant
21:56:17 <zzo38> Yes; they just put printer interface on the same card, perhaps to save costs I don't quite know why
21:56:29 <b_jonas> hmm, the printer has a 9 wide cell, you're right
21:56:36 <b_jonas> then maybe for the printer too
21:59:06 <b_jonas> zzo38: I guess because people using the PC for business would use the better monochrome adapter and the printer, whereas people using the pc for games would use the color adapter. that's why sound cards and joystick cards were combined later: gamers want both.
22:01:00 <b_jonas> that was a bit later, joy stick controller existed before sound cards because it's cheaper.
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22:03:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: or maybe they reused the font ROM for the printer and the card? ROM was clearly very expensive back then.
22:05:06 <b_jonas> but I don't think it's that, because I think the font was on the printer, not the card
22:05:59 <b_jonas> yep, controller sends characters or control sequences on the parallel port, just like with later printers. font's on the printer.
22:07:06 <b_jonas> and I think it can buffer a line and print it in the background while the cpu does more useful stuff.
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23:13:43 <oren> I don't even know what alphabet the mitosis sybol thingy is from
23:14:06 <HackEgo> U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 ae UTF-16BE: a66e Decimal: ꙮ \ ꙮ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R \ UTF-8: 72 UTF-16BE: 0072 Decimal: r \ r (R) \ Uppercase: U+0052 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
23:14:50 <oren> Oh it's one of those crazy letters from before cyrillic was standardized. Crazy russians
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23:15:16 <FireFly> I could've sworn we had a wisdom entry on the multiocular o
23:15:45 <HackEgo> 1138) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
23:16:28 <oren> holy shit hahahahaha
23:17:19 <oerjan> <scoofy> garbage in, garbage out <-- psst, that's what everyone was subverting hth
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23:18:05 <oerjan> oren: it's not really a "before cyrillic was standardized", it's even crazier than that
23:18:49 <oerjan> it's basically a cyrillic pun, used only in one spot in manuscript bibles
23:20:09 <oerjan> (there are other o's with fewer eyes used in other spots)
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23:22:15 <oerjan> also the word in that spot could be translated with "multiocular", so it's both a description of the letter and of what it's used for...
23:23:13 <oerjan> wikipedia has an extensive set of pages for these
23:27:07 <oerjan> <Taneb> Also it's graded <-- i assume you get A+ if your AI takes over the world
23:27:28 <Taneb> oerjan, not those names for grades!
23:27:43 <shachaf> oerjan: we already went over this hth
23:28:02 <oerjan> haven't you americanized your grade system yet
23:28:13 <shachaf> is that pronounced twee-twee
23:28:14 <Taneb> Why would we do that
23:28:28 <Taneb> shachaf, I'm not dutch
23:28:30 <oerjan> shachaf: went over what you're being ambiguous tdnh
23:28:44 <shachaf> oerjan: d-modules and the british grading system
23:29:29 <Taneb> oerjan, if we americanized the grade system I couldn't get a first in computability and complexity
23:29:58 <shachaf> oerjan: itym americanised hth
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23:31:32 <shachaf> i think you are right for once?
23:32:46 <oerjan> Taneb: actually what you should do is make an AI that takes over the world and changes the grade system, that would work.
23:33:07 <Taneb> But I only got a 2-2!
23:33:38 <Taneb> I'm not that good at AI
23:33:42 <shachaf> Taneb: don't worry, you can write an AI that takes over the world and changes your grade to A+ for any of your modules
23:33:45 <Taneb> Actually, it could get rounded up to a 2-1
23:33:47 <shachaf> doesn't have to be the AI module
23:33:51 <oerjan> well that's what you have to expect when your AI only takes over half of Swansea and a piece of Manx hth
23:33:54 <zzo38> Why can't you get a percentage for grading instead?
23:34:25 <Taneb> And 68% in principles of programming languages
23:35:31 <oerjan> shachaf: it seems Taneb isn't the AI type of evil overlord
23:35:50 <shachaf> Taneb is an evil overlord?
23:36:00 <ais523> oerjan: but "Manx" is an adjective
23:36:01 <Taneb> shachaf, have you seen my surname
23:36:08 <shachaf> are evil overlords a Tanebvention?
23:36:18 <Taneb> ais523, you misunderstand, I took over half of a manx cat
23:36:18 <ais523> that's like taking over a piece of Norwegian, it doesn't make sense grammatically
23:36:25 <oerjan> ais523: no wonder it didn't work, then
23:36:45 <oerjan> ais523: well you could take over the language, add an extra case or something
23:36:46 <shachaf> that's why Taneb got a 2-2
23:37:03 <shachaf> using adjectives instead of nouns
23:37:36 <shachaf> oerjan: how advanced does an ai have to be to figure out your acronyms
23:37:37 <Taneb> shachaf, the grade hasn't been confirmed yet, it could be rounded up to a 2-1!
23:38:23 <zzo38> Why don't they just write down the percentages instead of using stuff like 2-2 and so on?
23:38:40 <shachaf> zzo38: What do they do in BC?
23:38:50 <Taneb> zzo38, because it's in bands
23:39:22 <Taneb> The bands are, 40% to 50% is a third, 50% to 60% is a 2-2, 60% to 70% is a 2-1, 70% upwards is a first
23:39:27 <shachaf> 2-2 would be a good name for a band
23:39:39 <oerjan> shachaf: pretty advanced
23:39:42 <zzo38> Here in Canada they use the letters A, B, C but I think percentages would be better
23:40:12 <oerjan> don't mess with my 2-2
23:40:59 <shachaf> A, B, C are all only symmetrical on one axis
23:41:05 <shachaf> so i assume they're the same score
23:41:28 <Taneb> shachaf, but A is symmetrical on a different axis to B and C
23:41:45 <zzo38> In my opinion the only bands should be the pass/fail band
23:42:10 <ais523> zzo38: well, I passed my PhD thesis defence today
23:42:16 <zzo38> You write percentage; letter can be added for other stuff added on, such as pass/fail, "no mark" (0 out of 0), "standing granted", etc
23:42:39 <ais523> the only real bands there are conditional pass, and fail (although there are different grades of conditional pass depending on how onerous the conditions are)
23:42:42 <oerjan> @ask rdococ <rdococ> or should I try to avoid a naming conflict? <-- what naming conflict there's no language called Function hth
23:42:47 <ais523> the ideal condition you want is typo fixes
23:42:55 <shachaf> ais523: How big was your snake?
23:42:59 <ais523> what you don't want is a rewrite of the entire thesis to cover a bunch of new options
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23:44:53 <ais523> shachaf: a bunch of typo fixes, some adjustments to some of the wording, and more clarity as to what the structure is
23:44:57 <ais523> it isn't online yet, but the corrected version will be
23:45:08 <ais523> I'll link it to you lot when it is
23:45:39 <oerjan> i take it unconditional pass isn't something that happens, then?
23:45:50 <ais523> oerjan: that requires no typos anywhere
23:45:54 <ais523> I don't think anyone's that good at proofreading
23:45:59 <shachaf> Hmm, so it's in your best interest to leave a few typos in your thesis?
23:46:01 <ais523> it is theoretically possible but I'm not sure it's ever happened
23:46:06 <shachaf> Otherwise your condition will have to be more serious.
23:46:30 <oren> I hate the way a B+ is 73 and a A- is 77 but to get an A+ you have to get 90
23:46:50 <ais523> oren: the UK exam system might be worse
23:47:09 <ais523> you get an A at 80, a B at 70, a C at 60, etc.; however, the actual marks are adjusted so that the grade boundaries all end up where they "should" be
23:47:10 <zzo38> oren: In my area there is no + and - for A and B though
23:47:22 <ais523> leading to weird anomalies such as getting 100% despite not answering all the questions (I've managed that before now)
23:47:48 <shachaf> I thought the UK system used 2-2?
23:48:13 <shachaf> i'm going to trust dr. not my real name here
23:48:22 <ais523> shachaf: different exam
23:48:42 <Taneb> shachaf, the 2-2 stuff is at uni, the As etc are in high school (GCSEs and A-levels)
23:48:43 <ais523> A levels are A/B/C/D/E/N/U on the scale given there
23:48:59 <ais523> university is 1, 2-1, 2-2, 3, Pass, Fail
23:49:14 <shachaf> is the A in "A level" related to the other A
23:49:23 <zzo38> ("Standing granted" is you passed regardless of your actual mark; in my math class one year I would then have SG(NM) if my format is used; they did not assign a mark because many of my assignments were late or incomplete even though I did a good job otherwise and passed all test and stuff very good, and the teacher know I am good at it too)
23:49:24 <ais523> nope, it originally stood for Advanced
23:49:27 <ais523> I'm not sure if it still does
23:49:56 <ais523> (this was originally to contrast with O for Ordinary, but O-levels no longer exist; the GCSE is the closest modern equivalent)
23:50:00 <Taneb> ais523, A-levels now have an A* grade above A
23:50:03 <ais523> we also have three SAT exams when we're younger
23:50:12 <ais523> Taneb: I remembered that but only after I made the comment
23:50:18 <ais523> grade inflation sucks :-(
23:50:24 <oren> ais523: wait so OWL's are real?!!?
23:50:26 <Taneb> Also I am not sure how many of the SATs still exist
23:50:30 <oren> - the wizarding
23:50:39 <zzo38> The grade system is a bit stupid
23:50:43 <Taneb> I don't think I did year 9 SATs
23:50:58 <ais523> the funny thing is, they happen at around ages 7, 10, 13, but they're all marked on the same scale from 1 to 9
23:51:14 <ais523> just you aren't intended to get 9s at age 7, I think a 4 is a good grade back then
23:51:32 <zzo38> I want to do such as P(100%) is the perfect score (although, due to bonus question and other things it might be possible to get slightly higher than 100%), and then F(0%) is the lowest score.
23:51:39 <ais523> (also you have to declare a target grade and you can only get that grade, one grade higher or lower, or fail outright)
23:51:40 <oren> Ah. that makes more sense to me
23:51:43 <Taneb> ais523, 4 is an exceptional grade at age 7
23:51:52 <ais523> Taneb: was trying to pick the top end of what was reasonable
23:52:06 <ais523> 4 is believable, 5 isn't really
23:52:23 <shachaf> Is it always the same test?
23:53:01 <ais523> same difficulty for each target grade, although ofc they have to change the details year on year to stop people just regurgitating model answers
23:53:29 <shachaf> If someone got a 9 on the age-13 test could they get a 9 on the age-7 test?
23:53:38 <Taneb> (I mean, I think they have different tests at different levels)
23:53:45 <Taneb> (It's been a while since I did a SAT)
23:53:49 <ais523> yes, but no sane school would let an age-7 pupil target a grade of 8
23:53:58 <ais523> because they'd be risking a fail, and that looks really embarassing on the stats
23:54:26 <shachaf> How do you target a grade?
23:54:40 <shachaf> You're just supposed to leave some questions blank instead of trying to answer them and failing?
23:55:04 <ais523> the school says "well we're targeting 80 3s and 70 2s" and gets the appropriate exam papers for that
23:55:58 <shachaf> So you have to choose in advance what your maximum score will be?
23:56:21 <ais523> that's actually one of my least favourite things about UK exams
23:56:49 <ais523> (this is actually true even at GCSE; at A level, you can't really do that because you pick your A level subjects and if you can't at least aim at an A in any of them, you should probably just go get a job)
23:57:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43105&oldid=43104 * SuperJedi224 * (+111)