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00:01:35 <hppavilion[1]> http://store.steampowered.com/app/370360/?snr=1_7_15__13
00:20:19 <Sgeo> I know a REBOLer who loves SpaceChem as educational
00:20:31 <Sgeo> I don't think I got far in it
00:29:04 <zzo38> I remember I once asked someone to make up a Magic: the Gathering card; he made up an artifact called "Smoking Wand" with the text: {2}, {T}: Touch this wand to your opponent's nose and his nose catches fire. (If today is Tuesday, his nose explodes instead.)
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00:32:17 <zzo38> He also made up a green enchantment called "Balanced Acorn" with the text: Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 (due to being able to well balance acorns on their head).
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00:53:20 <boily> @tell oerjan Please remind me to mapole you when you are back.
00:55:06 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
00:55:29 <boily> `? thwackamacallit
00:55:30 <HackEgo> A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole.
00:55:39 <boily> izabera: that should clarify the matter.
00:56:07 <izabera> is this how canadians explain things?
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00:57:32 <boily> it's essentially a maple pole. a mapole, eh.
00:58:46 <izabera> the interwebz says it's a magnetic dipole
01:00:14 <izabera> http://www.acronymfinder.com/Magnetic-Dipole-Spark-Transmitter-(MAPOLE).html
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01:13:33 <JesseH> What about a language where the stack is handled, then executed at the end of the script (stack definition), and the interpreter loops through the stack until its members have been removed?
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01:16:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44621&oldid=44617 * SuperJedi224 * (+37)
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01:34:47 <JesseH> It's pretty much an array
01:35:11 <hppavilion[1]> How about a mandatorily reversible language? Called "Bounce", where the instructions are executed forward, then backward, theen forward, then backward (up and down from the programmers point of view, as if bouncing)
01:35:30 <JesseH> That could be fun too.
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01:51:53 <fizzie> JesseH: That sounds vaguely familiar; or at least the concept of "turn the data manipulated by the program into what gets executed next, and that's the only looping construct". Maybe not with a stack-oriented language, though.
01:53:46 <fizzie> Fueue is a bit like that. The source code defines the initial values of a queue, and execution means looking at the head of the queue and doing stuff (potentially involving appending elements to the tail) until there is no queue anymore.
01:55:42 <hppavilion[1]> What ways are there of thinking of programming languages?
01:56:52 <hppavilion[1]> There's: As a map from strings to a map from input string to an output string; As an algorithm; As a TM; As a λ-expression; what else?
01:57:27 <fizzie> Cellular automata is p. popular.
01:57:43 <hppavilion[1]> I'm thinking about the Philosophy of Computer Science
01:57:45 <fizzie> In general, "model of computation" is the term you want.
01:58:00 <hppavilion[1]> And ways of thinking of languages is a core of it, AFAICT
02:09:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44622&oldid=44593 * Zzo38 * (+1552) TeX
02:26:23 <JesseH> Writing up a README for what I'm calling Stoop.
02:26:33 <JesseH> Tends to be where I start most of my projects these days. :P
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03:51:04 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Have you considered PostScript for that list yet?
03:54:04 <Sgeo> If Microsoft is unveiling its first laptop, what was the Surface before then?
03:55:34 <Sgeo> Also 1500 for something that probably has less graphics power than what I have now seems a bit... excessive...
03:56:05 <Sgeo> Oh, SurfaceBooks are like MacBooks!
03:57:40 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Which peso?
03:58:15 <pikhq> None of them are PSO, and all of 'em are fairly low in value.
03:59:26 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: Do you know PostScript much?
03:59:43 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I've read about it and tried to learn it, but no
03:59:52 <pikhq> The CUP is quite literally worthless in that there's no real way to get any from USD.
04:00:51 <pikhq> It's not a convertible currency.
04:00:55 <\oren\> bah. another flimsy overpriiced craptop
04:02:16 <pikhq> Ah, though it will gain value, as they're getting rid of the CUP.
04:02:29 <pikhq> (that's the ones you can actually buy)
04:05:50 <\oren\> For 1000$ I want something that will last a decade or so
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04:11:49 <\oren\> If a computer costs 2000$ it ought to keep working ok for 20 years
04:27:12 <zzo38> What happen in a Magic: the Gathering game if a spell goes missing from the stack during the process of casting that spell?
04:30:16 <pikhq> Believe me, I checked.
04:30:55 <pikhq> A flashed Sharhazad in a deck with wishes can be used as a terrible self counterspell.
04:31:49 <pikhq> Hrm, wait. Define "process of casting". Do you mean the game action 'casting' whereby it gets put on the stack, some point where it's on the stack, or during resolution?
04:33:37 <zzo38> I mean the steps from 601.2a to 601.2i in the rules.
04:34:07 <zzo38> So after it is put on the stack but before caster gets priority.
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06:06:23 <zzo38> My guess is that it would continue as if nothing happened, although the spell is no longer there and therefore cannot resolve. But, I don't know!
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06:45:51 <b_jonas> zzo38: I was wondering if you could make something like that happen with Panglacial Wurm, and in particular, whether you could run an “end the turn” action during casting a spell
06:46:45 <b_jonas> I couldn't figure out a solution. Some strange things can happen with Panglacial Wurm because you can sacrifice creatures for mana abilities to pay for Panglacial, but I can't make anything wierd happen immediately (as opposed to later when sbe are checked or you get priority).
06:46:50 <b_jonas> I still wonder if there's a way.
06:47:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: how is Shahrazad relevant here though?
06:53:02 <b_jonas> There are lots of different mana abilities that let you sac creatures, so maybe I could sac some permanent that has an interesting static effect.
06:53:22 <b_jonas> But most static effects cause strange things only later, through sbe.
06:59:47 <izabera> i want to write a virtual machine for games
07:00:08 <izabera> but it will only support games such as super mario, or sonic, and such games
07:00:23 <izabera> and it will work on linux, windows, mac osx, everywhere
07:00:34 <izabera> it will be a multiplatform platform game platform
07:04:10 <b_jonas> Wait wait! What if I had an animated Humility, my opponent had an Angelic Arbiter. I attack with a bear, cast Diabolic Tutor, as I search, cast Panglacial Wurm from my library, pay for it with Ashnod's Altar, saccing the Humility, so the static ability of Angelic Arbiter says I can't cast spells.
07:05:40 <zzo38> I am not talking about Shahrazad.
07:06:38 <zzo38> b_jonas: You activate mana abilities and pay costs after it is checked whether or not the spell is legal.
07:08:45 <b_jonas> Could you do some other crazy stuff by turning on a static ability of a permanent in a similar manner?
07:09:53 <b_jonas> Especially if you use something more complicated than Diabolic Tutor, and something that spell tries to do after searching the library would interact with the static ability.
07:10:14 <zzo38> Probably you can, yes, due to mana abilities or costs; you might even be able to avoid state-based effects in this way.
07:11:41 <zzo38> See if a puzzle can be made up involving such things!
07:13:39 <zzo38> If a card has an ability: {4}, {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool. All spells with split-second ability are countered. then you could counter a spell with split-second before its cost is paid. Of course that is just made up and is not an official card (for now, at least).
07:14:31 <shachaf> If an ability says "Add {0} to your mana pool", is it still a mana ability?
07:15:48 <zzo38> As far as I can tell due the rules, it is not; although the rules ought to be that it is because it is "add to your mana pool"
07:17:18 <shachaf> What if it says "Add {X} to your mana pool, where X is 1 if there are more than two players in the game and 0 otherwise", and there are only two players in the game?
07:24:08 <zzo38> As far as I know it is still a mana ability but I am not sure. I have thought of stuff like that, although it was a card in the Conspiracy set, I think
07:25:36 <b_jonas> Is there such a thing as a Fellwar Myr, or a similar green druid, or a Fellwar Cantor, or a Fellwar Ritual/Song instant?
07:26:56 <b_jonas> oh, there is a druid: Quirion Explorer
07:27:09 <b_jonas> but that's a bit expensive. I think a myr version that costs {2} could work.
07:27:50 <b_jonas> and Sylvok Explorer too … hmm
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09:17:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Flawr * New user account
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09:58:44 <mroman> DEP + Stack Cannaries sucks
09:59:36 <mroman> Ideally all systems would use DEP, Stack Cannaries, ASLR
09:59:43 <mroman> and that's going to make it really hard to write exploits.
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10:02:52 <b_jonas> no, people will still always write a lot of bad code that does all kinds of things on untrusted input, as they're financially incentived to write bad code quickly.
10:03:25 <b_jonas> I mean, people still write lots of insecure code in high-level languages that do bounds check, and it's not buffer overflows and mistakes like that.
10:04:27 <mroman> Yeah, you can still corrupt data of course.
10:05:29 <mroman> and there's JIT spraying
10:08:47 <b_jonas> Or run commands from untrusted input, or just make a mistake in authorization properly so anyone can access a lot of data they shouldn't through a service, or lots of other possibilities.
10:13:02 <b_jonas> I mean, seriously, python is (probably) adding a form of string literal with interpolation (sort of like double-quoted strings in ruby), and the most important reservation they had about this is that PEOPLE WILL USE IT TO INTERPOLATE UNTRUSTED STRINGS INTO SQL STATEMENTS so some thing the feature should be added only when there's another similar interpolation syntax that doesn't concatenate everything to a string but produces and abstract list of pieces
10:13:14 <b_jonas> \ so some thing the feature should be added only when there's another similar interpolation syntax that doesn't concatenate everything to a string but produces and abstract list of pieces so that the sql prepare function can put placeholders where the interpolated parts are automatically.
10:13:41 <b_jonas> I mean, come on! Hasn't programmers stopped doing that like two decades ago?
10:14:37 <b_jonas> I can sort of understand it when you're messing with cmd on windows, spawning programs that you didn't write, because there getting command-line quoting to work properly is impossible. But in sql statements?
10:15:18 <b_jonas> Incidentally, is there a perl module that overloads string literals for this kind of magic for sql statements?
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10:25:15 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 31m 54s ago: Please remind me to mapole you when you are back.
10:29:13 <mroman> b_jonas: schools still teach the usual $id = GET['id']; $query = "SELECT * FROM WHERE id = $id";
10:29:28 <mroman> I was taught it this way
10:29:33 <mroman> and they still teach it this way
10:31:03 <mroman> Mostly because IT teachers are usually self-taught people who learned electrical engineering but eventually became computer guys
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10:48:08 <b_jonas> We try to say that only PHP people do it that way, but it's not true. It occurrs with SQL-related code in all kinds of languages.
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10:51:45 <fizzie> Well, let's be fair: in some languages they do it by string concatenation rather than variable interpolation.
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11:06:30 <oerjan> the haskell wiki has an annoying lack of several features. the search menu doesn't even complete...
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11:26:54 <oerjan> stupid time zones. and sleeping.
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11:27:55 <int-e> time zones are great, they just need to be liberated from geography
11:29:23 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon.
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11:30:33 <boily> timezones are great. let's make more of them!
11:30:43 <oerjan> int-e: what i wanted to tell shachaf is that i have distilled down my proof that ZipList isn't a monad to just two test cases.
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11:31:25 <oerjan> [[[],[7,8]] and [[[1,2],[3,4]],[[],[7,8]]]
11:31:59 <oerjan> join . join = join . fmap join _must_ break for one of them, given that we know what join must do on rectangular lists.
11:32:46 <oerjan> (which one depends on whether join [[],[7,8]] = [] or not.)
11:33:09 <oerjan> (eliding ZipList wrapping here.)
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11:41:43 <oerjan> (i searched the ircbrowse logs for #haskell for "ZipList monad" a few years back yesterday to see if anyone there had given a full proof, which not only told me they hadn't but that shachaf was particularly annoyed at the question keeping coming up :P)
11:45:29 <b_jonas> oerjan: I think I asked about that at some point
11:45:37 <b_jonas> asked why it's not a monad, that is
11:45:42 <b_jonas> or maybe about some other similar applicable
11:46:54 <oerjan> it does keep coming up
11:46:59 <b_jonas> There might not be a precise proof.
11:47:22 <b_jonas> I mean, might not be a precise proof in the part of the logs I mentioned.
11:47:37 <b_jonas> It comes up because we know few nice examples of applicables that aren't monads.
11:47:43 <b_jonas> And ZipList is among them.
11:47:55 <oerjan> Const m is another btw
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11:49:24 <oerjan> you cannot get join (pure (Const m)) = Const m to hold because pure (Const m) doesn't actually contain m in it :P
11:50:52 <oerjan> > pure (Const "hi") :: Const [String] a
11:50:53 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Const [Char] b0’
11:50:53 <lambdabot> ‘a1’ is a rigid type variable bound by
11:51:16 <oerjan> > pure (Const "hi") :: Const [String] Bool
11:51:17 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘Bool’
11:51:17 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Const [Char] b0’
11:51:17 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘pure’, namely ‘(Const "hi")’
11:51:41 <oerjan> > pure (Const "hi") :: Const String (Const String a)
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15:26:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Whitespace]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44623&oldid=38185 * 206.248.181.119 * (+2443) site is currently offline. Technically copying stuff from the page, but technically API/syntax aren't copyright.
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15:29:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Capricorn]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44624&oldid=44204 * 206.248.181.119 * (+21)
15:32:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Whitespace]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44625&oldid=44623 * Oerjan * (-2443) Undo revision 44623 by [[Special:Contributions/206.248.181.119|206.248.181.119]] ([[User talk:206.248.181.119|talk]]) (Technically I don't think you understand copyright.)
15:34:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Oerjan * Oerjan changed visibility of revisions on page [[Whitespace]]: Copyright violation: Even if the API doesn't make it Copyvio, the presentation may
15:36:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Whitespace]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44626&oldid=44625 * Oerjan * (+25) /* External resources */ Wayback for now
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17:04:48 <shachaf> oerjan: dolio liked your example, but not in #haskell.
17:20:24 <zzo38> SQL has host parameters so you can use that to enter values into SQL statements from another programming language.
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19:22:30 <quintopia> @tell boily decided to go caving on saturday. sunday still ostensibly free.
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19:56:31 <newsham> hrmm.. has anyone ever made a mobius paper-tape quine?
19:57:31 <b_jonas> newsham: what would that mean?
20:00:46 <newsham> a program on paper tape, where the paper tape is arranged as a mobius strip.
20:00:53 <newsham> that when loaded will generate itself
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20:22:19 <hppavilion[1]> MOBIUS TURING MACHINE MOBIUS TURING MACHINE MOBIUS TURING MACHINE
20:23:57 <hppavilion[1]> "Then remember it's two-sided, so repicture the mobius strip as having half of infinite length"
20:23:58 <b_jonas> newsham: but how do you load it? also, isn't ticker tape assymetric, so you can't load it upside down?
20:24:10 <b_jonas> I mean, where do you start and stop feeding it?
20:24:39 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Well, you would... um... Mayb- no, that wouldn't work. Hm...
20:24:43 <b_jonas> tape readers are very fast, so you'd need a very long strip to have a chance to glue the two ends together
20:24:56 <b_jonas> and even then, I don't think it will work upside down
20:25:37 <newsham> hmm.. i dont know.. is it designed to only fit in one way?
20:25:42 <newsham> in that case i guess its not possible :(
20:26:19 <b_jonas> newsham: dunno, which type of paper tape? the 5 hole or the 7 hole one?
20:26:36 <newsham> i didnt know there were two types :)
20:28:37 <b_jonas> I'm not sure if there really is. I've only ever seen the 5 hole one.
20:28:58 <b_jonas> But I think 7 hole one exists at least mythically, possibly in reality too.
20:29:31 <fizzie> https://googledrive.com/host/0B4J9OAzXNfZANENrRWdhR1FNZjQ that's quite the title
20:30:55 <b_jonas> I think it's because 5 bit bytes with telex-like code were used for so long that few people made electromechanic terminals with 7 bit bytes and ascii-like code (though I know such a thing exists, or at least a 6 bit byte one does), so ticker tape got mostly obsolate by the time people would start to use 7 bit bytes.
20:31:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck⁂]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44627&oldid=44615 * Hppavilion1 * (+418) Control Flow
20:32:09 <b_jonas> Note though that ASCII was clearly _designed_ such that you can use it with ticker tape: that's why \x7f is the DEL character, so you can backspace and overpunch any character with DEL and then it will be ignored when the ticker is read.
20:35:25 <b_jonas> this is what the 5-bit ticker tape (with baudot code) looks like: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Baudot_Tape.JPG
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20:36:27 <b_jonas> and this is an 8 hole ticker tape: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bootstrapping_tableau.jpg
20:36:42 <b_jonas> this is 8 hole too: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cromemco_Dazzlemation_Program_on_Punched_Paper_Tape.jpg
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20:38:04 <b_jonas> this too: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Papertape.jpg
20:38:13 <b_jonas> so it certainly at least exists
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20:42:10 <fizzie> https://googledrive.com/host/0B4J9OAzXNfZAbGd1Y3ByazNGYk0 <- more 5-bit tape
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20:44:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck⁂]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44628 * SuperJedi224 * (+50) Created page with "Plain, ordinary Brainf*** already has while loops."
20:45:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck⁂]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44629&oldid=44628 * Hppavilion1 * (+84) Repsonded
20:46:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck⁂]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44630&oldid=44629 * SuperJedi224 * (+97)
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21:21:40 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: dolio liked your example, but not in #haskell. <-- wait what do you mean by "not in #haskell"? also ASK ME ABOUT MY 3 STEP PROOF THAT ZIPLIST IS DEFINITELY NOT A MONAD TWH
21:22:37 <shachaf> i'm getting an urge to ask about a proof of some sort
21:22:43 <shachaf> nah, it would probably just annoy people if i asked about it
21:23:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'hug': hugs are good
21:23:45 <oerjan> step 1 (common knowledge): to get the right Applicative, join needs to give the diagonal for all "rectangular" ZipLists.
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21:24:39 <oerjan> step 2: use step 1 to ponder join . join = join . fmap join for the ziplist [[[],[7,8]]]. conclude that join [[],[7,8]] is [].
21:25:20 <oerjan> step 3: use step 1 and 2 to ponder it for [[[1,2],[3,4]],[[],[7,8]]]. get contradiction.
21:25:44 <shachaf> oerjan: imo post that somewhere where i can link to it twh
21:26:10 <oerjan> that's my problem, i cannot decide on a good place
21:26:18 <shachaf> e.g. ask on stackoverflow and then answer your own question
21:26:49 <shachaf> (apparently this is approved behavior)
21:28:09 <shachaf> it's in perfect <140-character-sized chunks
21:28:51 <olsner> I wonder if shachaf is the shachaf I followed
21:29:07 <shachaf> i'm not https://twitter.com/funpuns hth
21:29:13 <olsner> I may have done this before and then realized you don't tweet anything
21:29:44 <olsner> but "@shachaf hasn't tweeted yet."
21:30:07 <shachaf> "@shachaf hasn't tweeted-and-not-deleted yet"
21:30:16 <oerjan> also considering just making a plain html document.
21:30:23 <shachaf> usually i delete my twits within a few hours or days
21:30:39 <oerjan> that's very antisocial, shachaf
21:30:46 <oerjan> deleting stuff, i mean
21:30:49 <shachaf> then ask a stackoverflow question that and link to your plain html document in the answer
21:31:00 <shachaf> then twit a link to your stackoverflow question
21:31:18 <shachaf> then post your twit on irc
21:31:39 <shachaf> olsner: You should circlify me on Google+
21:31:46 <shachaf> I do have a couple of undeleted posts there.
21:31:50 <olsner> I have unplussed my google, I think
21:32:16 <olsner> my employer has a google+ though
21:32:22 <shachaf> I also have some undeleted posts on Facebook.
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21:35:08 <oerjan> also considering haskell wiki but damn have they ruined the formatting
21:35:39 <shachaf> get an account on comonad.com and post it there hth
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21:51:10 <shachaf> oerjan: You could publish it as a PDF file and then restrict everyone from seeing it for months.
21:54:37 <shachaf> i hear your pal is an expert in publishing pdfs
21:56:16 <ais523> shachaf: so what do you think of my thesis?
21:57:04 <ais523> and you went to so much trouble to get a copy, too
21:57:13 <ais523> how about this: if it becomes publicly available before you get to read it
21:57:17 <ais523> I get to mock you for it
21:58:27 <shachaf> You can already mock me for it if you want.
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22:06:13 <izabera> create a file where the first 20 bytes are the file's sha1
22:06:56 <izabera> and make it as short as possible
22:09:29 <ais523> izabera: sha1? you may have some problems there
22:09:38 <ais523> I'm not even sure it can be done with md5 yet
22:09:48 <ais523> (there's an IOCCC entry that can do it with CRC-32)
22:11:49 <shachaf> "can" in a practical sense.
22:12:38 <oerjan> you can however make a program that prints its own sha1, with standard quining techniques.
22:13:02 <oerjan> (or any other computable function of the source)
22:14:12 <oerjan> izabera: technically the pigeon hole principle _might_ not apply... it _could_ be that sha1 never gives the same as the initial 20 bytes
22:14:23 <oerjan> although it's pretty unlikely
22:15:47 <ais523> right, I was going to say that
22:15:53 <ais523> pigeonhole principle doesn't prove that you can do it
22:16:05 <ais523> although a probabilistic argument does, unless SHA-1 has some weird rules we're currently unaware of
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22:16:29 <shachaf> Do you think sha1 is surjective?
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22:21:16 <izabera> http://stackoverflow.com/a/1896723/2815203 this guy says it is <.<
22:22:05 <shachaf> That person is talking about the codomain of SHA1, not the image.
22:23:32 <oerjan> today's square root of minus garfield seems girl genius inspired
22:23:41 <oerjan> SO has referral links?
22:24:36 <shachaf> you get badges if enough people click your referral links
22:26:57 <oerjan> ok but badges don't really give you anything do they
22:27:45 <shachaf> thanks for making that good point
22:29:52 <oerjan> also it looks pretty awkward to get hold of a _non-referral_ link to an SO comment.
22:31:26 <oerjan> shachaf: rep at least gives you some moderation powers
22:33:58 <oerjan> izabera: i wouldn't be surprised if there's no actual known proof that SHA1 is surjective. the obvious way of proving such a thing is to find an inverse, but if that was even moderately efficient you could generate collisions at will...
22:34:35 <oerjan> of course i also don't know enough about SHA1 to have heard if there is such a proof.
22:34:51 <shachaf> I'm pretty sure no one knows for sure.
22:35:50 <oerjan> it is of course _possible_ that there could be an inverse that can be proven correct but is infeasible to actually calculate.
22:36:12 <shachaf> i guess you just mean a right inverse
22:36:39 <oerjan> well yes, was about to say, except this is one of those cases where i cannot remember what is left and right
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22:49:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton/List handling]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44631&oldid=44348 * Timwi * (-119) Remove redundantly duplicated duplicate
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23:17:58 <zzo38> I think in the very old Magic: the Gathering rules you could only counter a spell before it becomes successfully cast (in modern rules you can only counter a spell after it becomes successfully cast).
23:19:12 <shachaf> Did "successfully cast" mean something else in the old rules?
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23:20:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Emchatman * New user account
23:21:48 <zzo38> It means the process of casting it has been completed (as it does now), although it could be interrupted before, and therefore not successful. (At least I think this is how it is working)
23:24:05 <zzo38> I don't really understand the old rules (I only have a few diagrams and some other incomplete information), but it seems that, once an item on a stack resolved (or failed to resolve), you could no longer add to that stack until it is emptied (but you could add regeneration effects to a new stack during that time).
23:26:56 <zzo38> Interrupts do not use the stack (as now mana abilities do not use the stack) and normally resolve immediately, unless you target a spell which you did not cast and that the caster of that spell has not yet given up the right to target, in which case the interrupt is placed on a queue (not a stack); each spell has its own queue of interrupts targeting it. Well, at least that is what it looks like to me; I could be wrong.
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23:39:03 <izabera> why does stat(2) return the size in bytes in a off_t?
23:39:42 <ais523> presumably because that's what fseek() takes as an argument
23:39:53 <ais523> also stat64(2) uses a different return type for the size
23:40:08 <ais523> because it was realised it was a problem
23:40:32 <ais523> I believe stat(3) uses stat64(2) (or maybe something even newer?) behind the scenes nowadays
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