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02:25:19 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps a language where everything- not just data- is an object would be nice
02:25:57 <zzo38> I have tried a few different things including using XGetImage and I cannot quite figure it out
02:27:34 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: what do you mean by "object"?
02:28:59 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Imagine a world where IF-THEN is represented by an instance of the CONDITIONAL class
02:29:07 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: I'm taking OO to the logical extreme, I think
02:31:09 <zzo38> I used XGetImage and all of the red_mask and green_mask and blue_mask in the resulting image are zero
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02:42:55 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: oh, we have that
02:43:01 <coppro> it's called enterprise fizzbuzz
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02:44:09 <coppro> https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
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02:50:47 <oerjan> who needs a language when you can have a LanguageFactoryBean
02:54:05 <oerjan> you seem to be running prolog rather than OO hth
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02:58:15 <oerjan> "No." is a prolog response hth
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03:01:50 <lambda-11235> If I had a time machine I'd go back and stop the guy that thought com.blahblah.relaventpart was a good idea.
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03:14:39 <Elronnd> lambda-11235: is that actually a newgroup?
03:16:15 <lambda-11235> Elronnd: Not to my knowledge. I just meant it as an example.
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03:19:15 <lambda-11235> I'm going to start naming all my groups com.lambda_1123581321345589_thisisgettinghardtoread
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03:27:37 <coppro> lambda-11235: why not go back in time and kill someone responsible for something relevant?
03:29:57 <lambda-11235> coppro: As a programmer, that's very relavent to me.
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03:30:35 <coppro> newsgroups are not relevant any more
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03:36:58 <oerjan> wait, you were talking about newsgroups? thought it was java packages.
03:37:30 <oerjan> it makes perfect sense for newsgroups imo.
03:41:06 <\oren\_> I should probably move the cursive letters to the correct codepoints or cursive letters
03:41:12 <lambda-11235> oerjan: Oh, sorry it is a java package, not a newsgroup.
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04:19:22 <zzo38> Now I got my JavaScript Xlib to support loading pictures and drawing pictures on a window. However currently the picture loading will only work properly if the X server's picture format is [blue,green,red,unused] 32-bit TrueColor format, and will not work in other cases.
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04:20:40 <zzo38> Transparency does work though, if you tell it to include transparency when loading. However it can't do full alpha transparency, but only opaque/transparent.
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04:56:51 <zzo38> Now text drawing is working
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06:26:14 <shachaf> int-e: Did you @ignore HackEgo?
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07:28:20 <Sgeo> "I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of the Banach-Tarski paradox that this margin can be made large enough to contain."
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07:44:22 <shachaf> But it doesn't work in 2D.
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09:08:04 <b_jonas> oerjan: according to the monad tutorial fallacy, Monads are Like Burritos, and that tutorial also calls this Joe's Burrito intuition. So I don't care what the plural everywhere else is, this plural helps understanding Monads the best, according to Joe.
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09:08:51 <b_jonas> @tell oerjan according to the monad tutorial fallacy, Monads are Like Burritos, and that tutorial also calls this Joe's Burrito intuition. So I don't care what the plural everywhere else is, this plural helps understanding Monads the best, according to Joe.
09:11:02 <shachaf> According to me, I'm tired of stupid monad jokes.
09:11:29 <shachaf> That includes every monad joke that involves the word "burrito".
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09:26:17 <\oren\_> fungot, are you asynchronous?
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09:42:50 <b_jonas> `slashlearn sparkle/Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings.
09:43:03 <b_jonas> `slashlearn sparkle/Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings.
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09:46:20 <shachaf> I think you're the only person who uses `slashlearn.
09:46:49 <shachaf> It's good that we have a binary by the name, though, for people who don't have a / key on their keyboard.
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09:48:28 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf shachaf int-e tswett tswett shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf
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11:16:09 <int-e> shachaf: I did tell lambdabot to ignore hackego at some point... not sure whether it was restarted in the meantime
11:16:39 <shachaf> int-e: Well, it's a shame that things like `? weather don't work anymore.
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12:04:01 <b_jonas> Did you know there exists such a thing as a vending machine selling cooking gas cylinders? Large cylinders, not tiny ones for camping.
12:04:18 <b_jonas> I saw one at a gas station in France. It was strange.
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12:14:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46464 * 84.101.93.151 * (+13177) This is a programming language made by Armok himself. Well, not really. However, it is inspired by Dwarf Fortress.
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12:29:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46465&oldid=46464 * 84.101.93.151 * (+126)
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12:34:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46466&oldid=46465 * 84.101.93.151 * (+72)
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12:40:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46467&oldid=46466 * 84.101.93.151 * (-85)
12:41:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46468&oldid=46467 * 84.101.93.151 * (-2)
12:47:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46469&oldid=46468 * 84.101.93.151 * (-83)
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12:55:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Armok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46470&oldid=46469 * 84.101.93.151 * (+196)
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12:58:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46471&oldid=46369 * 84.101.93.151 * (+12)
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13:04:29 <b_jonas> I followed the instructions? Why are the bottoms burnt?
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13:10:26 <HackEgo> [U+258A LEFT THREE QUARTERS BLOCK]
13:11:46 <Riviera> `uniencode [THREE HEADED MONKEY]
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14:14:12 <HackEgo> 397) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur.
14:16:16 <b_jonas> `slashlearn trunc/The trunc and truncf functions (of C99 and C++11) are actually supported by the MS compiler (starting from the 2013), only strangely undocumented.
14:16:43 <b_jonas> `slashlearn lrint/The lrint and lrintf functions (of C99 and C++11) are actually supported by the MS compiler (starting from the 2013), only strangely undocumented.
14:17:01 <Taneb> b_jonas: these are actually useful what gives
14:17:24 <b_jonas> Taneb: probably I never really understood how to write good wisdom entries.
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14:41:12 <lambdabot> b_jonas said 5h 32m 20s ago: according to the monad tutorial fallacy, Monads are Like Burritos, and that tutorial also calls this Joe's Burrito intuition. So I don't care what the plural everywhere else is, this plural helps understanding Monads the best, according to Joe.
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14:42:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: massage: not found
14:42:52 * oerjan swats b_jonas with an enchilada /====/
14:43:31 <tswett> Wait, let me try one more.
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14:55:42 <HackEgo> total 4 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 17 Dec 9 04:12 rn -> ../bin/slashlearn \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 267 Dec 22 18:32 rn_append
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14:56:57 <oerjan> `.//slash_learn testy/test//testing
14:56:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv//slash_learn: No such file or directory
14:57:11 <oerjan> `bin//slashlearn testy/test//testing
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14:59:09 <oerjan> <shachaf> It's good that we have a binary by the name, though, for people who don't have a / key on their keyboard. <-- ERM...
14:59:39 <oerjan> wait, this is the time when shachaf actually sleeps is it
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15:09:26 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/trunc
15:09:31 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/lrint
15:10:25 <oerjan> @tell shachaf not only does b_jonas use `slashlearn, he uses it even when `learn would work tdnh
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15:28:27 <quintopia> oerjan: what is a programming language? do we consider BF equivalents to be different languages just because the syntax has changed? would a compiler that converts a particular AST into your choice of encodings (all with the same semantics) constitute one language or many?
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15:32:19 <oerjan> quintopia: isn't that what a compiler usually does, with encoding = machine code
15:33:41 <oerjan> the answer to the first part is "it depends". see: applescript.
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15:35:27 <quintopia> oerjan: well, most compilers translate things from one language to another, but I'm talking about something else. Something that takes an abstract representation of an AST and encodes it. I'm not sure one would call the starting thing a language. I'm not sure one would call the various possible output encodings different languages even though they are all semantically equivalent encodings of the same AST
15:37:05 <boily> and hellochaf too.
15:38:38 <oerjan> quintopia: just use HoTT and they'll all be the same thing hth
15:38:55 <quintopia> i don't see what would make applescript not a language. is it that it has so many different ways to do the same thing?
15:39:48 <oerjan> it is natural language agnostic afaihh hth
15:39:55 <quintopia> oerjan: show me some ethos. i want to know if there is a consensus opinion.
15:40:33 <oerjan> quintopia: since when do i have opinions on matters this arbitrary
15:40:45 <oerjan> you can expect nothing but facts and jokes hth
15:43:39 <quintopia> oerjan: you have knowledge. alex is not here. if you said "a lot of people agree blah" i'd believe you.
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15:44:20 <oerjan> well i don't remember what people agree.
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15:58:36 <boily> quintopia: diplomatic talks between my head and my stomach.
15:59:26 <quintopia> boily: pls be less metaphorical. are you ill?
15:59:40 <boily> yeah. headache and nausea.
16:00:05 <quintopia> have you sufficiently self-medicated?
16:01:42 <boily> I think I'll go back to neutral grounds. horizontal, soft grounds with a pillow.
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16:23:21 <b_jonas> oerjan: that's because I don't know in advance when `learn works
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17:53:00 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 42m 34s ago: not only does b_jonas use `slashlearn, he uses it even when `learn would work tdnh
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17:53:16 <shachaf> oerjan: well, the "/ on the keyboard" thing was just a swattempt
17:53:54 <shachaf> oerjan: I can't blame anyone for not using `learn because it's too complicated and magic.
17:56:13 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
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18:05:14 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
18:06:04 <HackEgo> tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth.
18:06:29 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
18:06:47 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
18:08:44 <b_jonas> I wash my laundry in a roughly lifo order, since clothes I wear often need to be washed earlier. As a result, some of the clothes I wore for the skiing trip (which ended on 2016-01-31) remained dirty in the laundry basket for quite long.
18:09:10 <b_jonas> But now, I just started the washing machine with the last batch that contains clothes from the ski trip.
18:09:31 <b_jonas> So that backthing will soon be completed!
18:09:56 <shachaf> sometimes i don't wash my laundry for too long
18:10:10 <b_jonas> Backwhat? Backlog? Wasn't there a different word for that?
18:10:15 <shachaf> and then i might think "oops, i made a lifo"
18:12:12 <b_jonas> Currently, what limits my washing throughput the most is drying the clothes. I'll have to find a better arrangement for that.
18:12:46 <b_jonas> No surprise, since the washing machine does the washing more or less automatically, but the drying and then putting the clothes away needs more actual work from me.
18:13:29 <b_jonas> And I can't put all of them on. How would I wear six pairs of wet socks at the same time?
18:14:07 <myname> well, socks can be stretched quite good
18:14:16 <myname> at least 4 pairs schould be possible
18:14:40 <shachaf> The loss of his clothes hardly mattered, because / He had seven coats on when he came, / With three pairs of boots -- but the worst of it was, / He had wholly forgotten his name.
18:14:41 <b_jonas> Maybe, but that wouldn't yield me clean clothes except immediately when they're washed.
18:15:12 <b_jonas> And it's probably backlog. But I'm not sure.
18:15:51 <b_jonas> shachaf: that's from The Hunting of the Snark, right?
18:17:55 <b_jonas> Completely in contrast with that other famed poem,
18:19:03 <b_jonas> “Megyeri elbúsul - kedvét szegi / Neki / A folt, / Mivel csak egy kabátja volt,”
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18:50:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Demiurgosoft * New user account
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18:56:22 <b_jonas> The most annoying is sheets by the way, since they're so large.
19:01:15 <izabera> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/703900742961270784
19:02:39 <zzo38> The new version of Xlib should add also the functions XPutTrueImage and XConvertTrueImage
19:07:43 <b_jonas> zzo38: is this your javascript wrapper thing?
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19:09:12 <izabera> can you help me write a thing? i need a list of the glibc functions that take a path
19:09:55 <izabera> doesn't have to be 100% complete
19:10:06 <b_jonas> izabera: uh... that's lots of functions
19:10:46 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes I am making the JavaScript Xlib wrapper program but these suggestion I made now are for Xlib in C too, which would help with converting any TrueColor picture with any number of bits per channel and order of channels into the required format for the screen.
19:11:23 <Riviera> izabera: i hope you don't mind me asking, what do you want to do with that list?
19:12:50 <zzo38> Yes I have the similar question, why do you need the list of the glibc functions that take a path? (Are you intending to make the function to take the path in a different format or something like that?)
19:13:03 <izabera> a LD_PRELOAD wrapper that searches other paths when you use a relative path
19:13:08 <b_jonas> izabera: um, there's system calls like (open, open64, openat, unlink, rmdir, unlinkat, mkdir, mkdirat, link, linkat, rename, renameat, symlink, symlinkat, stat, lstat, fstatat, and lots more), then higher level wrappers like fopen, remove, ...
19:13:49 <izabera> i don't need the *at versions
19:13:51 <b_jonas> izabera: um... why would you wrap all libc functions for that and with a LD_PRELOAD wrapper, why not just all syscalls with a ptrace debugger or something?
19:14:04 <b_jonas> izabera: um, why not the at versions? they're the most general form
19:14:09 <b_jonas> they take relative paths too
19:14:23 <izabera> well they do but they also take a fd
19:14:44 <zzo38> Yes I would think ptrace might be better
19:15:20 <b_jonas> izabera: you could try to search the manual and/or headers for functions with "filename" as an argument name
19:15:27 <b_jonas> izabera: oh, that reminds me
19:15:38 <b_jonas> um, no wait, that wouldn't work
19:16:35 <b_jonas> izabera: what if you only caught chdir, and started the program with the pwd being a directory on a special file system you make with fuse, and caught all operations through that handle? although that might not catch operations with too many levels of ..
19:17:01 <b_jonas> (too many levels up ".." components in the pathname that is, leading out of your fuse filesystem)
19:17:19 <b_jonas> and of course it depends on what you want to do with the process when they attempt those syscalls
19:17:47 <b_jonas> sadly, arguments named "filename" probably isn't enough
19:18:06 <b_jonas> especially since, you know, some syscalls like link and rename take two of the
19:19:06 <izabera> the fuse idea is interesting
19:19:38 <b_jonas> izabera: the trickiest ones are actually bind, accept, sendto etc (which are not actually real syscalls on unix, but wrappers over them, but that's not important right now), which can take a socket address that might be a file-based unix domain socket (AF_UNIX) which thus contains a pathname
19:20:02 <b_jonas> izabera: plus of course the program could just transfer pathnames in any way to other processes which then handles those pathnames for them
19:21:10 <b_jonas> such as, you know, system("rm ./somefile") or such stupid things
19:21:20 <b_jonas> not always stupid of course
19:22:05 <b_jonas> the system("rm ./somefile") kind of crazyness is prevalent in bad perl scripts some code monkeys write, but of course saving filenames outside the process has sane applications too
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20:02:38 <nzt-fish> so this is about a language called esotoric?
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20:09:24 <Taneb> nzt-fish, no, it's about esoteric programming languages! Esoteric programming languages are programming languages which are esoteric, which normally means "only known to a select few"
20:09:44 <Taneb> However, in this community the meaning has shifted to mean a programming language that is in some way not designed for serious use
20:10:07 <Taneb> Be it insufficiently powerful, hard to use, or hard to implement properly!
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20:16:18 <Sgeo> There's no reason an esoteric language called "esoteric?" can't exist
20:16:25 <Sgeo> although as far as I know it doesn't
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20:20:38 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, how did your submarine jousting go
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20:27:06 <Taneb> Remind me the actual name of what you were doing
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20:33:51 <b_jonas> ``` ed wisdom/tanebventions <<<$'1s/ Go, /&submarine jousting, /'
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20:33:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebventions: No such file or directory
20:34:37 <b_jonas> ``` ed wisdom/tanebvention <<<$'1s/ Go, /&submarine jousting, /'
20:34:47 <b_jonas> ``` ed wisdom/tanebvention <<<$'1s/ Go, /&submarine jousting, /\nwq'
20:35:00 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, robots, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
20:35:15 <b_jonas> "submarine jousting" is too good to waste
20:37:58 <HackEgo> Lambek's lemma? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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20:39:03 <b_jonas> By the way, ed doesn't have that magic syntax of perl where an s/// command with an empty search part re-uses the match from the previous search (most likely in the address), right?
20:39:37 <b_jonas> eg. I couldn't have written $'/ Go, /s//&submarine jousting, /\nwq' instead?
20:41:30 <Riviera> i often use commands like g/regex/s//replacement/g
20:41:58 <Riviera> so the empty regex is no problem, the search address however might be
20:45:59 <b_jonas> the docs weren't clear enough to me
20:54:27 <Phantom_Hoover> there are some guys in the engineering department building a pedal-powered racing submarine...
20:57:11 <Phantom_Hoover> how would you win, though? you're enclosed in the submarine, you can't be knocked off
21:03:02 <Taneb> Maybe if you spring a leak
21:05:41 <b_jonas> Do you have to be inside? Can't it be a submarine you're riding from the outside? Like a bicycle
21:06:25 <HackEgo> Riviera: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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21:12:07 <zzo38> Why is there many different kind of summation method of infinite series, can't you just use the algebraic method? (In all examples I have tried to solve by algebra, this method works)
21:12:37 <b_jonas> Underwater jousting reminds me to the edit wars on Wikipedia concerning weather "extreme ironing" is a real sport.
21:13:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: um, what exactly do you mean by "algebraic method"?
21:13:08 <zzo38> I have seen extreme ironing on television (I think on a news show?) so I know it is possible
21:14:21 <zzo38> b_jonas: I mean that if x=1+2+4+8+16+32+... then also x=1+2x and therefore x=-1, and similar way can be done with x=1-1+1-1+1-1+1-1+... and x=1+4+16+64+256+... and so on
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21:16:40 <b_jonas> Extreme ironing probably counts as an esoteric sport, similar to esoteric programming languages.
21:16:46 <HackEgo> extreme ironing? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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21:18:26 <zzo38> They described on television as, when you iron your clothes outside. It could be anywhere outside, whether it is in your front yard or while climbing a mountain or underwater.
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21:24:10 <HackEgo> extreme ironing? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:24:34 <b_jonas> `learn Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
21:24:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'extreme': Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
21:24:46 <b_jonas> see, this is why I'm not using learn
21:24:53 <HackEgo> abort: unknown revision 'wisdom/extreme'!
21:25:11 <HackEgo> rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
21:25:23 <b_jonas> `slashlearn extreme ironing/Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages.
21:27:44 <b_jonas> Are there esoteric programming languages specialized for programming in crazy places, like underwater or while parachuting?
21:31:17 <zzo38> I think not, but you can try to make it up anyways
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21:42:11 <b_jonas> I guess some M:tG un-cards might count
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21:48:39 <zzo38> I got resource string parsing to work now (it includes both the root window's RESOURCE_MANAGER property and the command-line arguments)
21:51:01 <zzo38> For example: yield X.initQuarks(["customization","background","foreground","TestWindow"]); yield X.initResources(["","-xrm #XRM","-bg .background","-fg .foreground","@TestWindow"]); console.log(yield X.getResource([X.quark.customization]),yield X.getResource([X.quark.TestWindow,X.quark.background]));
22:00:17 <b_jonas> Apparently someone has uploaded the time-reversed version of at least three Tom && Jerry episodes to youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBLYV9uN2xk
22:23:34 <int-e> hmm... http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff2800/fv02774.htm ... now how do they know that the ballott wasn't stuffed?
22:25:46 <Taneb> Maybe they have a government-approved key pair
22:27:31 <int-e> Then it risks not being anonymous?
22:29:21 <Taneb> I'm heading to bed now
22:29:55 <int-e> pro tip: go *around* walls, not through them
22:30:27 <int-e> (I regard doors as not being part of the wall)
22:30:40 <b_jonas> int-e: that's usually good advice, although it depends on whether you are phasing or have enough turns of passwall remaining.
22:30:59 <b_jonas> also, whether you can dig very fast
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22:43:58 <zzo38> I have made X.Picture instances to also be EventEmitter instances, even tlhough X.Picture does not have any events. This is because JavaScript does not have multiple inheritance. (Later versions on my program might change this in some way)
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23:00:34 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: I can't blame anyone for not using `learn because it's too complicated and magic. <-- ;_;
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23:05:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1"
23:07:51 <shachaf> oerjan: I agree with that regular expression.
23:09:51 <shachaf> Is there a name for representing equivalence classes of A with a function : A -> B?
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23:13:09 <oerjan> `learn `learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...]
23:13:12 <HackEgo> Learned '`learn': `learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...]
23:13:43 <myname> what about multiwordstuff?
23:14:04 <oerjan> myname: then you need slashlearn / le/rn / le//rn
23:14:39 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
23:14:43 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
23:14:46 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
23:14:56 <oerjan> le//rn is the most flexible, it allows you to create keys with / in
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23:15:49 <b_jonas> a // in a filename is the same as a /
23:15:51 <oerjan> FireFly: that's not compatible with how wisdom entries are stored, alas
23:16:03 <b_jonas> (except when it's not, but that doesn't apply to wisdom)
23:16:18 <FireFly> but it could be worked around, which is kinda the case wih / anyway in that it relies on directories
23:16:36 <FireFly> wait, how is le//rn even a thing?
23:16:59 <HackEgo> sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "Learned «$key»"
23:17:23 <HackEgo> echo "$1"; [[ "$1" == */* ]] && mkdir -p "${1%/*}" 2>/dev/null
23:17:28 <oerjan> shachaf: "quotient" i should think
23:19:07 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
23:19:34 <shachaf> oerjan: The function isn't necessarily surjective.
23:20:01 <oerjan> shachaf: hm. right. in any case, ...
23:20:24 <b_jonas> maybe we'll need to introduce a new wisdom representation that can use any byte string not containing [\0\r\n] as a key for wisdom
23:21:42 <oerjan> shachaf: in universal algebra this is "kernel of a homomorphism".
23:21:59 <oerjan> where kernel becomes a congruence instead of just a subset
23:22:24 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, that's it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(set_theory)
23:22:25 <b_jonas> and is also mostly compatible with the current representation
23:22:28 <oerjan> your case then becomes the special case of a trivial algebra, i guess
23:22:47 <shachaf> I knew I'd seen that somewhere before.
23:22:54 <b_jonas> like, it somehow quotes things it has to quote, plus does some magic (maybe sha-256 hashing) on keys too long for a filename
23:23:19 <FireFly> b_jonas: there's a wtf(6) command from BSD games that does something similar, and it simply uses a tab-separated file
23:23:25 <oerjan> b_jonas: and people say `learn is too complicated :P
23:23:45 <oerjan> FireFly: that disallows tabs...
23:24:03 <myname> b_jonas: is the limit of a filename shorter than that of an irc message?
23:24:04 <FireFly> But it allow all printables
23:24:38 <b_jonas> myname: yes, at least the limit on filename components
23:24:49 <zzo38> My opinion that many internet services that you can set up the account and profile, ought to add support for RDF. OpenID can also be used for login (which is normally only for webpages, although HTCLS and other stuff could allow OpenID to be used even outside of webpages), and the RDF can reference it too. RDF and OpenID is decentralized; you don't need Facebook and Google and Gravatar logins for example
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23:25:58 <shachaf> b_jonas: Why do you type `slashlearn instead of `le/rn?
23:26:27 <b_jonas> shachaf: the name le/rn is strange. especially for an executable.
23:27:01 <b_jonas> zzo38: isn't OpenID already decentarlized?
23:27:18 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, and RDF is also decentralized.
23:29:30 <b_jonas> zzo38: then there's this thing => https://lwn.net/Articles/671604/
23:29:48 <b_jonas> and there's some centralized ones
23:30:09 <oerjan> <shachaf> and then i might think "oops, i made a lifo" <-- i call this the stack principle. any set of items to be handled devolves into a lifo unless you take care to prevent it.
23:30:35 <shachaf> oerjan: my whole life may have devolved into a lifo tdnh
23:30:54 <oerjan> which is why, after i have washed a cup, i put it _innermost_ in the cupboard.
23:31:36 <oerjan> well, in principle anyway.
23:31:51 <shachaf> maybe i shouldn't have moved to california
23:31:59 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, I try that sometimes with both cutlery and clothes. not consistently enough though.
23:32:31 <int-e> shachaf: I do hope that doesn't apply to digestion
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23:36:21 <zzo38> I am deliberately to be recommending the decentralized system.
23:36:32 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: my whole life may have devolved into a lifo tdnh <-- mine too, in the big picture :(
23:36:43 <zzo38> RDF is also more extensible than the other user profiles, too
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23:37:57 <oerjan> int-e: hm there are some animals that do that, i think
23:38:30 <oerjan> some kinds of invertebrates with only one whatchammacallit
23:38:47 <zzo38> The account registration form could have the fields such as: username, password, again password, OpenID, RDF. You can therefore fill in username/password or OpenID. If RDF is also filled in, then depending on the data available, the other fields might not be necessary.
23:39:36 <int-e> oh, I was assuming shachaf to be human... or some mammal, at least, and I didn't consider ruminants (thanks google) at all
23:39:49 <boily> int-ello. shachaf is a bird.
23:39:56 <oerjan> i wasn't considering ruminants either, really
23:40:16 <oerjan> something more primitive, but i don't quite remember what
23:40:56 <int-e> oerjan: not sure what you call it...
23:41:04 <int-e> jellyfish would qualify I guess
23:41:08 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyp comes to my mind
23:41:33 <int-e> which are of course related...
23:41:38 <zzo38> b_jonas: Do you like this?
23:42:01 <int-e> (At least in one direction: "Jellyfish or jellies[1] are the major non-polyp form of individuals of the phylum Cnidaria.")
23:42:29 <int-e> and what about starfish?
23:42:53 <oerjan> i wasn't sure if starfish did that, they're a different phylum
23:43:23 <oerjan> hm bells are starting to ring
23:45:39 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelenterata may be what i was thinking of. apparently it's no longer considered a proper grouping.
23:45:55 <oerjan> that still doesn't include starfish...
23:47:32 <int-e> heh... subtleties. http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/100302.html
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23:53:28 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoelomorpha seems to be another group
23:54:48 <oerjan> however, both protostomes and deuterostomes have two openings, which includes starfish (which are deuterostomes like the vertebrates)
23:55:15 <oerjan> (they differ in how the openings form)
23:55:20 <zzo38> I don't know all of that biology much, but now I can know a little bit
23:55:26 <shachaf> oerjan: what is the big picture of your life
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23:56:09 <int-e> shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test ;-)
23:56:22 <HackEgo> lambdabot: ?? ?@ (?where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
23:56:25 <lambdabot> CYUL 282341Z 05017G26KT 15SM -SHSN DRSN FEW012 SCT020 OVC065 M09/M12 A2974 RMK SF1SC3SC4 SLP076 \ ENVA 282350Z 08003KT 9999 FEW012 BKN024 00/M00 Q1023 RMK WIND 670FT 23008KT \ ESSB 282350Z AUTO 00000KT 9999 SCT055/// M06/M07 Q1024 \ KOAK 282353Z 27006KT 10SM FEW020 BKN170 OVC200 17/11 A3019 RMK AO2 SLP224 T01720106 10189 20139 55006
23:57:14 <oerjan> shachaf: picture a train on tracks going toward the side of a mountain. no matter how careful you look, you cannot make out any tunnel opening.
23:57:42 <shachaf> so are you pre- or post- mountain
23:58:44 <HackEgo> libkmod: ERROR ../libkmod/libkmod-module.c:1567 kmod_module_new_from_loaded: could not open /proc/modules: No such file or directory \ Error: could not get list of modules: No such file or directory
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