00:00:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan's hostname contains "hagbart" which looks like "h4gbird"
00:00:44 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: We're on to you. Your clever disguise will fool us no longer
00:03:08 <hppavilion[1]> DAM (deterministic access memory) is /so/ much better than RAM :P
00:05:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
00:10:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: itym hagb4rd.
00:10:45 <oerjan> i'm not entirely sure why the server's named that, although it's been there for far longer than the troll.
00:10:46 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Your confusion techniques will not stop me
00:11:13 -!- Elronnd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:11:17 <oerjan> i suspect it may be a children's literature character, though, several of the other servers are.
00:11:44 -!- Elronnd has joined.
00:11:57 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Never heard of a hagbard, and neither has anybody else in the room
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00:12:34 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it's probably a norwegian children literature
00:12:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: incidentally, who knows if e's doing it on purpose. i think one of the reasons i didn't notice earendel earlier was because i confused em with one of Elronnd's alternative nicks.
00:12:50 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: hagbar_t_
00:13:28 <oerjan> it could be a comic character. i vaguely think there's a danish one by that name.
00:14:17 <\oren\> http://www.smurf.dk/Henrik%20&%20Hagbart/henrikoghagbart.html
00:14:25 <oerjan> oh hm the danes call hägar the horrible hagbard
00:15:15 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: So do you have any thoughts on the whatever-it's-called architecture?
00:15:33 <oerjan> um i'm a bit forward-logged
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00:22:06 <hppavilion[1]> A good model for an esoteric processor would be the "horribly tangled block" model
00:23:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it means that i'd skipped past that discussion because you started pinging me hth
00:23:33 <oerjan> i think my thoughts are about "meh", alas
00:24:17 <oerjan> also, i have the power to travel through time at the huge speed of 1 s/s hth
00:24:55 <oerjan> (equivalent to c in natural units)
00:25:44 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: I do not want to know what you are trying to construct
00:26:09 <oerjan> b_jonas: you realize that doing so many commands at once increase the chance they'll time out hth
00:26:55 <b_jonas> oerjan: I can retry the ones that time out
00:27:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Recommended by pi out of 5 doctors under duress! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Chemnitz (not Karl-Marx-Stadt).
00:28:07 <b_jonas> fungot, give HackEgo a swift kick from me
00:28:30 <oerjan> fizzie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00:28:36 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: This happens every once in a while
00:29:05 <prooftechnique> I have been on this channel for years, and I have never not been able to fungot
00:37:35 <HackEgo> a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner.
00:37:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `.d: not found
00:37:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fungoot: not found
00:37:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pint: not found
00:37:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: reboot: not found
00:38:35 <HackEgo> a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner.
00:39:02 * oerjan smacks b_jonas with an eel ~~~~~~~~~
00:39:04 <HackEgo> vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
00:39:30 -!- hydraz has changed nick to him.
00:39:51 -!- him has changed nick to hydraz.
00:40:37 <oerjan> `learn Møøse is Norwegian for moss.
00:40:39 -!- hydraz has changed nick to cne.
00:40:42 <HackEgo> Learned 'møøse': Møøse is Norwegian for moss.
00:40:51 -!- cne has changed nick to hydraz.
00:55:20 <oerjan> <\oren\> the resulting system would be turing complete even though each component isn't <-- hm because each of them provides a stack?
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00:58:36 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: No, you said "hp", so now I'm here <-- you must have a lot of fun in gaming channels
01:06:53 * oerjan notices hppavilion[1] completely misunderstanding quantum computing in the logs and sidles away carefully.
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01:09:45 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] Re: quantum computing, you cannot invent things on top of something you completely fail to understand hth
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01:18:46 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> myname: e.g. is "for example", i.e. is "in other words" <-- actually i.e. is "that is" hth
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01:26:10 * oerjan sees pre-mature jokes in the logs
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01:30:26 <Moon_> damn the bot is off
01:30:27 <HackEgo> Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
01:30:55 <oerjan> it _is_ the slowest bot in Mexico, you know
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01:50:43 <boily> @tell Gregor IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
01:51:21 <boily> @tell Gregor Please disregard previous guttural yell hth
01:52:00 <oerjan> @tell Gregor no don't, there are other problems.
01:52:37 <oerjan> boily: you can redirect it at fizzie hth
01:52:37 <boily> fizzie: WHARAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGLRGHGHGHRHGHFHGHRGHLGLGLGLGLGLGL!
01:53:32 <boily> meanwhile, the 16.04 upgrade killed python support in my vim install. much rejoicing...
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02:01:02 <boily> ah fungot. got the Dreaded Vietnam Reference Error.
02:02:15 <boily> trying to compile the PDF, got the vietnam ldf error. I think int-e was afflicted by it last week.
02:02:44 <boily> applying a round of forceful package updates that include some latexy stuff. imh.
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02:14:39 <boily> got it. simply had to 's/vietnam/vietnamese/' the babel \usepackage definition, \selectlanguage references, and then `make clean` to remove the corrupted .aux files.
02:15:15 <mad> is the name of the language 'vietnamese' or 'viet'
02:16:11 <boily> as far as LaTeX is concerned, it is now always 'vietnamese'.
02:16:19 <mad> I mean in english
02:16:48 <mad> does 'nam' mean country or something like that?
02:18:57 <prooftechnique> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Vietnam#Origin_of_the_.22Vietnam.22
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02:21:31 <mad> so it's congante with chinese 'nán'
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02:46:04 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 36m 18s ago: Re: quantum computing, you cannot invent things on top of something you completely fail to understand hth
02:46:23 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: JUST TRY AND STOP ME HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
02:48:57 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't have to, your construction will collapse by itself into inconsistency hth
02:49:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: OTOH, the reason I haven't been working on QCL is because I don't understand QC at all, and I didn't want to create something stupid
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03:30:29 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Woudl I be correct to hypothesize Haskell is based on the Category of Functions?
03:30:56 <coppro> category of functions?
03:31:55 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: I was wondering if a language like haskell based on e.g. allegories would be possible
03:32:03 <oerjan> Hask is a category somewhat similar to Set, so its morphisms are functions.
03:32:31 <oerjan> Set being what the "category of functions" is called.
03:32:48 <oerjan> since it's named by its objects instead of morphisms
03:33:34 <oerjan> they're both "cartesian closed" (although that may be modulo some bottoms in the Hask case), which means you can put lambda calculus in them.
03:34:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But could one have a language based on a category somewhat similar to e.g. Grp?
03:35:18 <oerjan> if you think you can replace "category" by "allegory", then you are using too much allegory in your thinking hth
03:35:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I'm just asking questions about what /can/ be done
03:36:13 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: yeah, I think you could have a language based on a different category.
03:36:13 <oerjan> well Grp is probably not cartesian closed, although maybe it'd be good for _reversible_ computations.
03:36:37 <oerjan> i think in a sense logical languages might be based on Rel?
03:36:39 <tswett> oerjan: well, not all group homomorphisms are invertible.
03:36:47 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: such as Grp.
03:37:25 <oerjan> tswett: hm right. you want the morphisms to be invertible.
03:37:45 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: well you're solving relations...
03:37:56 <tswett> So that would be a language based on a groupoid.
03:38:02 <oerjan> prooftechnique: Ab still doesn't have invertible morphisms.
03:38:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: OK. What would things like functors (which I'm just beginning to understand) be like?
03:39:59 <oerjan> i haven't thought too deeply about that.
03:40:24 <hppavilion[1]> Is the Category of Grammars (a) a thing and (b) a thing that has had any research into it?
03:40:54 <tswett> Depends on what kind of grammar you mean.
03:41:04 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: do you know what a homomorphism is, in general?
03:41:08 <oerjan> there was this time i wondered if definite clause grammars in Prolog were a notation for monads in Rel. i didn't get to the bottom of it.
03:41:19 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Barely. I'm still trying to grasp all of this
03:41:32 <oerjan> (they're used similarly to the State monad in haskell)
03:42:04 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: What's a homomorphism in the Haskell context?
03:42:34 <tswett> Well, the question would be "a homomorphism of what?"
03:42:42 <tswett> A homomorphism of types in Haskell would be a function, yeah.
03:43:09 <oerjan> oh btw my DCG comment was unrelated to the grammar question.
03:43:56 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I imagine that in Gram (the category of grammars), homomorphisms would be ways of transforming between grammars?
03:44:07 <tswett> They certainly would be, yes.
03:44:30 <tswett> Then the only question is, what does "transforming between grammars" mean?
03:44:41 <oerjan> tswett: i think you mean morphism. "homomorphism" is restricted to more concrete set objects, i think.
03:44:54 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I suppose I have to find the structure that they preserve?
03:45:08 <tswett> oerjan: I am in fact talking specifically about algebraic structures.
03:45:28 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: sounds right. Now, the thing about homomorphisms is...
03:45:49 <oerjan> tswett: well i'm not sure haskell types are algebraic structures. well, i guess they're CPOs in some interpretation.
03:46:00 <tswett> Usually, an algebraic structure consists of a bunch of elements, and a handful of operators.
03:46:12 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: define a grammar
03:46:17 <tswett> A homomorphism is a function from the elements of structure A to the elements of structure B, which respects the operators.
03:47:00 <tswett> If you want to define a "category of Xs", it would be good if you could figure out what the elements are, and what the operators are.
03:47:32 <coppro> a category does not need an algebraic structure or operators
03:47:32 <coppro> order categories, for instance
03:47:40 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Wikipedially, a set of named rules that declare a set of alternative sequences of terminal symbols and/or other rules that a string can match
03:48:00 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: well I've worked with languages over arbitrary algebras
03:48:07 <coppro> and I think what you end up wanting is basically equation systems
03:48:27 <coppro> but what does a morphism between equation systems look like? You could, of course, define a category of equivalences, or perhaps inclusion in generated sets
03:48:46 <tswett> Let me see if I can decide what I think a homomorphism of grammars is.
03:48:57 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: now, I have a suggestion.
03:49:09 <coppro> tswett: they aren't algebraic structures, so homomorphism doesn't make sense on them
03:49:13 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: if you want to apply category theory to grammars, consider looking at *each* grammar as being a category.
03:49:42 <hppavilion[1]> And, I suppose, the morphisms are between dependencies?
03:49:58 <hppavilion[1]> So if a ::= b c, then there's an arrow from a to b and from a to c?
03:50:03 <tswett> The objects of the category consist of all strings. The morphisms are the ways of getting from one string to another by following the rules.
03:50:54 <tswett> So the way I'd do it is, if a ::= b | c, then that gives you arrows b -> a and c -> a.
03:51:11 <tswett> And also arrows dbe -> dae, and so forth.
03:54:44 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I'm getting more of a Thue vibe from that, rather than grammars
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03:55:03 <tswett> You realize that Thue is based on grammars, right?
03:55:38 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: But I thought grammars just represented "this does fit with my language" or "this does not fit with my language"
03:56:03 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: you have to formalize them somehow
03:56:08 <tswett> A grammar is a list of Thue-like rules that produces a language.
03:56:22 <tswett> A language is any collection of strings.
03:56:31 <coppro> I could step in and apply the stuff I used in my master's thesis here, but that might be overkill
03:56:36 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: So then does a grammar take a string of input?
03:57:07 <tswett> Nope. A grammar is a list of rules that can be applied in various different ways.
03:57:17 <tswett> Once you're done applying the rules, you end up with a string.
03:57:42 <tswett> For any given string, if there exists at least one way of using the rules of the grammar to produce that string, then that string is in the language.
03:57:43 <coppro> well, a grammar is both
03:57:51 <tswett> If it's impossible to get that string, then the string is not in the language.
03:58:08 <coppro> formally, a grammar is just an equation system over a monoid
03:58:29 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Oh, it looks like I was thinking of Automata Theory
03:59:10 <coppro> an equation system is a set of k polynomials in the powerset algebra over the underlying algebra and with k variables, each of which corresponds to a polynomial
03:59:31 <tswett> coppro: is this your master's thesis stuff?
04:00:11 <coppro> tswett: my thesis was applying techniques from algebra & language theory to try to gain insight into graph minors structure
04:00:46 <tswett> It almost seems like everyone's got a relevant thesis for every topic.
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04:00:51 <tswett> Like, a while back, I said...
04:01:13 <coppro> this is the first time I recall a conversation in here where I was able to bring in something from my thesis
04:01:27 <coppro> though if anyont wants to learn about quasi-ordering and graph minors, I'm down :P
04:02:03 <tswett> "Hey, let's talk about sequences S that have the property that for all substrings T of S, there exists a number n such that every substring of S of length n has T as a substring."
04:02:14 <tswett> And then someone else here said, "Oh yeah, I did my Ph.D. thesis on those."
04:03:34 <tswett> I looked at their Ph.D. thesis, and sure enough...
04:03:42 <tswett> I mean, that wasn't the exact topic of the thesis.
04:04:02 <tswett> But it was definitely closely related.
04:04:58 <coppro> I'll link you mine. It's very dense, though!
04:05:17 <coppro> https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/10012/9648/Hunt_Sean.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y
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04:07:29 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: So the category of /automata/ was what I was going for.
04:08:47 <prooftechnique> Well, just get a grip on those, and you'll have mastered all of category theory
04:10:23 * oerjan "should" learn about Kan extensions some day
04:11:47 <prooftechnique> oerjan: The way I think about it, once you've done that, you can just kind of stop. You technically understand everything, so the rest is just computation, and that's what grad students are for
04:13:15 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I think category of grammars is more interesting than Category of Automata xD
04:13:57 <tswett> oerjan: is it "Cantor systems, dimension groups and Bratteli diagrams"?
04:14:21 <hppavilion[1]> OK, um... BNF is for Context-Free Grammars... But I don't see how it fits with the definition of grammars where things are translated...
04:15:05 <tswett> BNF is a sort of shorthand for formal grammars.
04:15:10 <tswett> Suppose you've got this BNF rule:
04:15:37 <tswett> That's shorthand for all of these formal grammar rules:
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04:15:57 <tswett> (a -> BC) (B -> bB) (B ->) (C -> cC) (C ->)
04:19:22 <tswett> `learn Numbers: 0, 848, 1344, 1696, 1969, 2192, _, 2544, 2688, 2817, _, 3040, _, _, 3313, 3392, ...
04:19:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'number': Numbers: 0, 848, 1344, 1696, 1969, 2192, _, 2544, 2688, 2817, _, 3040, _, _, 3313, 3392, ...
04:19:40 <tswett> `culprits wisdom/number
04:20:08 <tswett> `run mv wisdom/number{,s}
04:20:14 <HackEgo> Numbers: 0, 848, 1344, 1696, 1969, 2192, _, 2544, 2688, 2817, _, 3040, _, _, 3313, 3392, ...
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04:23:11 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Hm... would Thue form a good example of the basis of Grammar Programming, the same way λ-calculus is the basis for FP?
04:23:38 <tswett> I think I'd say the notion of a formal grammar is what would form that basis.
04:23:44 <tswett> Of course, Thue is very close to the notion of a formal grammar.
04:24:57 <oerjan> tswett: i think that was my "masters" not my "PhD" thesis (quotes because they're approximate translations). the PhD itself is not online, although 3 journal articles from it are.
04:25:40 <oerjan> (well, some of them may be paywalled.)
04:28:13 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Would adding strange features to a grammar language be acceptable? e.g. a way to extend the input string while processing it?
04:28:54 <tswett> Like, to allow the user to enter more data after the program has already started running?
04:30:26 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: And one rule may have the body "H", cw(", World!")
04:30:42 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: So it would match "H" then append ", World!" to the string that it is processing
04:31:12 <tswett> Well, lemme say these things.
04:32:01 <tswett> A plain-old-regular formal grammar is simply based on replacing this string with that string. That's enough for Turing-completeness. Adding additional features will make the language less elegant, so you'd better have a good reason for doing it.
04:32:17 <tswett> Also, formal grammars aren't usually considered as *having* an input string.
04:32:24 <tswett> Rather, the input string is always the same thing: "S".
04:32:57 <tswett> With that, unfortunately, I've got to go to bed.
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05:23:17 <hppavilion[1]> OPEN PROBLEM OF MATHEMATICS: Is it possible to explain Category Theory in a way that's easy to understand?
05:23:50 <mad> haven't seen a way yet
05:26:51 <shachaf> formal proofs are often not easy to understand
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06:56:29 <izabera> category theory is set theory's set theory
06:56:46 <izabera> did i win a million dollars or something?
06:56:57 <oerjan> yes, but only zimbabwean ones
06:57:08 <izabera> better than nothing i guess
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08:00:10 <rdococ> Qxyz = xz|yz makes more sense
08:00:19 <rdococ> collapsing the superposition
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08:03:29 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It has been suggested by oerjan that we don't try to build on things we do not understand
08:04:06 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an efficient binary representation of the surreal numbers?
08:04:21 <rdococ> wait, can't there be superpositions with a higher chance to collapse to one than the other?
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08:05:45 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I figured it'd be something like Q(Qxy)y for a 75% chance of y, else x
08:05:49 <rdococ> would Q x (Q x y) z be x|x|y or x|Qxy?
08:06:37 <rdococ> Qxyz is strange because it's non-deterministic
08:07:39 <hppavilion[1]> But we could have some sort of O loop that terminates when it observes deterministic thing
08:08:04 <rdococ> iteration in combinatory logic?
08:08:59 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It kind of has to support iteration, even if it's interpreted
08:10:04 <rdococ> I just had an epic idea...I think...maybe...?
08:10:14 <rdococ> a programming language using combinatory logic...?
08:11:35 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: How about λ-calculus:Combinatory logic::rho-calculus:?
08:13:56 <FreeFull> Why don't esoteric languages feature complex numbers and quaternions more often?
08:14:01 <rdococ> lambda calculus is to combinatory logic as rho calculus is to ?
08:14:39 <rdococ> " rho-calculus is a formalism intended to combine the higher-order facilities of lambda calculus with the pattern matching of term rewriting."
08:14:57 <rdococ> so wouldn't this new logical system be combinatory logic with term rewriting...?
08:15:51 <rdococ> what does that even mean
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11:24:00 <shachaf> oerjan: so in palisade you can always put a line between two 3s
11:24:09 <shachaf> any other heuristics like that?
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12:00:25 <boily> tswett: tswellott. numbers?
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12:51:26 <int-e> shachaf: in my experience palisade tends to be dominated by counting and tracing paths, with very few patterns
12:51:54 <shachaf> counting and tracing paths?
13:04:37 <int-e> counting area sizes... eliminating edges, and follow unique paths that often remain
13:06:26 <shachaf> I rarely see see unique paths except in trivial cases.
13:06:37 <shachaf> Maybe I'm not looking for the right thing.
13:12:40 <izabera> what to do when you find a different solution?
13:18:14 <fizzie> I didn't even know it was called that.
13:18:54 <fizzie> Oh, I confused it with Loopy.
13:19:01 <fizzie> Because it looks pretty similar, except for the solid border.
13:19:13 <shachaf> there's also the part where the instructions still say "loop"
13:19:35 <fizzie> I've been just playing the Loopy one.
13:20:29 <shachaf> but now i'm playing "stephen's sausage roll" apparently
13:36:37 <int-e> loopy otoh has many patterns.
13:38:54 <fizzie> Yes. Though at least one applies to both: if you have a 3 in a square, and it has a corner like _| where there are no other outgoing edges from that corner, then those two edges must be part of a boundary (because at least one of them needs to be, and the edge can't stop there).
13:42:34 <b_jonas> Dumb question. Rust has these compile time lifetime rules, where a variable can be in scope but uninitializes, and you can't read a variable unless it's known at compile time to be initialized. But that actually means you can't just transform any control flow to a while-switch loop, so the question is, WHY DOESN'T RUST HAVE A GOTO STATEMENT?
13:43:11 <b_jonas> Given that the compiler already has to understand the control flow for the compile time lifetime rules, goto wouldn't be hard to implement.
13:43:14 <\oren\> Ok, seriously: "Note that the term hom-set is something of a misnomer as the collection of morphisms is not required to be a set." Uh... how can something be a collection but not a set?!?!
13:43:43 <shachaf> it can be too big to be a set
13:44:14 <shachaf> or there's a more boring interpretation where it's a multiset or something
13:44:18 <b_jonas> \oren\: proper class, either of the higher order logic kind, or (possibly more restricted but more specific) defined by a formula and a set parameter
13:44:19 <shachaf> but that's not the one they mean hth
13:45:06 <int-e> shachaf: there's also this kind of pattern: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/palisade.png
13:45:33 <b_jonas> \oren\: it's like how you speak of the isomorphism class of graphs (in general), and an isomorphism class isn't actually a set (because the vertices are permitted to be anything, not just pulled from a set of potential vertexes fixed in advance).
13:45:39 <fizzie> int-e: That's exactly what I was trying to describe.
13:45:55 <b_jonas> For the things we actually want to do with isomorphism class of graphs, this isn't a problem though.
13:46:28 <b_jonas> (Which is good because otherwise you'd be in trouble.)
13:46:51 <int-e> fizzie: it's related to the connected path thing: both pairs of marked edges are on a path ... they either are both marked, or neither of them is marked. this also works for longer paths
13:47:35 <int-e> (and sorry, I'm not reading everything... technically I'm working)
13:47:39 <fizzie> Yes. (So by extension you can flag them as non-marked if the square's a 1.)
13:47:51 <fizzie> What a coincidence, I'm working as well.
13:48:02 <shachaf> b_jonas: also why do category theory people say a subobject is an isomorphism class of monomorphisms
13:48:54 <shachaf> when they don't say that e.g. a product is an isomorphism class, they just pick one thing and then add "up to isomorphism"
13:48:57 <shachaf> technically i'm on vacation
13:49:01 <b_jonas> shachaf: uh... I don't know category theory, sorry
14:17:51 <HackEgo> U+12379 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 92 8d b9 UTF-16BE: d808df79 Decimal: 𒍹 \ 𒍹 (𒍹) \ Uppercase: U+12379 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
14:19:20 <fizzie> Needs a newer Unicode.
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14:19:39 <HackEgo> U+12379 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 92 8d b9 UTF-16BE: d808df79 Decimal: 𒍹 \ 𒍹 (𒍹) \ Uppercase: U+12379 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
14:19:44 <fizzie> ("U+12379 CUNEIFORM SIGN GA2 TIMES AN PLUS KAK PLUS A -- was added to Unicode in version 7.0.")
14:21:01 <\oren\> that's a hell of a name
14:21:35 <\oren\> they should have named the chinese characters like that, according to their transliteration
14:23:26 <\oren\> anyway someone was claiming that no font supports that character
14:23:26 <fizzie> ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM still has the longest name.
14:23:44 <\oren\> but I refuse to support it
14:24:12 <\oren\> the sumerians will have to keep using their clay tablets
14:24:19 <fizzie> In fact, the ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA {FINAL,INITIAL,ISOLATED} FORM triplet take all the top-3 slots, leaving poor old CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY in the dust.
14:24:50 <shachaf> fizzie: speaking of which why isn't there a convenient unix shell command to sort by lengths twh
14:25:02 <shachaf> well, there is one on my machine. but not anywhere else.
14:25:34 <fizzie> I keep doing | perl -ne 'print length($_), " ", $_;' | sort -n.
14:26:34 <fizzie> (Amusingly enough, it counts the newline as part of the length.)
14:26:57 <fizzie> Also: SIGNWRITING MOVEMENT-FLOORPLANE HUMP HITTING CEILING LARGE DOUBLE.
14:28:22 <fizzie> Apparently it's for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SignWriting
14:29:01 <shachaf> i was hoping the signwriting movement would be more along the lines of graffiti
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14:30:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: are you checking the latest version of unicode?
14:31:00 <fizzie> b_jonas: I did wget a fresh ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt, so hopefully relatively so.
14:31:35 <b_jonas> oh, you get it straight from unicode.org? I usually just use that file from the libicu zip.
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14:31:56 <b_jonas> (Libicu obviously follows changes in unicode quickly.)
14:32:27 <fizzie> I keep a copy at ~/archive/misc/UnicodeData.txt, since obviously one needs to refer to it quite often in one's day-to-day activities.
14:33:18 <fizzie> Meanwhile, at the other extreme: OX, ANT, ARC, BED, BOY, BUG, BUS, CAT, COW, DOG, DVD, EAR, EYE, FOG, IMP, KEY, LEO, MAN, NOR, PIG, RAM, RAT, SUN, XOR.
14:34:57 <fizzie> Seems that a "make a block-drawing based autoscaled histogram and sprunge it" script would be convenient.
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14:55:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Harpix * New user account
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15:18:10 <FireFly> Surely there must be several of those already
15:18:24 <FireFly> not that it'd stop me from NIHing it
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15:19:07 * FireFly also keeps a local copy of UnicodeData.txt, though mostly because of a "charselect" shellscript for searching for glyphs
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15:58:27 <rdococ> continuing the discussion about quantum combinatory logic, I think that doing anything to a superposition should collapse it, it would prevent problems
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16:02:24 <rdococ> for the rho calculus thing, maybe R (xy) y z = xz?
16:05:18 <rdococ> I am tempted to talk about hit points (hp) to ping a certain person
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16:44:37 <fizzie> Hit points in a large and often sumptuous tent.
16:44:58 <fizzie> (WordNet definition for the "p" word.)
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17:51:34 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( "sexual dimorphism" (a biology concept) sounds like something that mathematicians fantasize about )
17:52:24 <prooftechnique> Mathematicians don't have fantasies, they have "research" symposia
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17:55:56 <hppavilion[1]> Category:Categories of Category-theoretical Categories
17:57:18 <prooftechnique> I think we were discussing whether a wiki forms a category last month
17:59:14 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: A subset of the features of MediaWiki wikis probably form a category, but when you include (wiki)categories, it gets more complicated (though I suppose we could just count them as pages and being in a category as a link to that page)
18:01:04 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Wait, composition is just clicking twice
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18:02:46 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Oh. No, it doesn't, because there is no right or left identity
18:03:10 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Having a link to the same page could be a left identity, but it isn't required so it doesn't work
18:03:56 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, there is a left identity- the first tab at the top of the page is a link whether or not you're on the main part of a page
18:15:43 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: So... what are the products and coproducts of wikipages?
18:21:23 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Wait. Product would be a disambiguation under certain interpretations, wouldn't it?
18:22:26 <izabera> inspirobot reminds me of https://xkcd.com/1263/
18:23:17 <hppavilion[1]> prooftechnique: Every page that links to a either page links to the disambiguation and- by composition- also links to the pages it disambiguates, because the disambiguation links to those pages.
18:26:10 <prooftechnique> Does browser history figure into this? I think that could make the issue of unique identities a problem
18:27:03 <rdococ> quantum combinatory logic
18:28:15 <rdococ> the issue we encountered with superpositions that don't automatically collapse when touched
18:28:24 <rdococ> I think it's why they collapse in the real world
18:49:06 <rdococ> I typed this whole sentence backwards, lels
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19:27:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[//////////]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46852 * 87.246.78.46 * (+8) blobfish
19:28:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[//////////]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46853&oldid=46852 * Sbneelu * (-8) Blanked the page
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19:31:49 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a category theory where categories are hyperdigraphs rather than normal digraphs?
19:46:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category theory]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46854 * Hppavilion1 * (+1464) Created the very basics, not sure where to go from here (I feel this page is necessary because abusing Category Theory is clearly a method for creating esolangs, and such a topic won't be discussed elsewhere)
19:57:52 <hppavilion[1]> Why not make a programming language directly based on CT? That'd be nice
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20:24:29 <Moon_> i designed a non-joke eso: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=157829.0
20:28:14 <Moon_> Example program: ++/P++P++p/p\o\o/io\o
20:30:20 <gamemanj> ...looking at it, the only reason it's windows-only seems to be SetColor - which is "DOES NOT WORK, DO NOT USE YET" anyway
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20:32:29 <gamemanj> other things involving setcolor: formatting style is different ('{' on next line as opposed to '{' on same line everywhere else, comments, etc...)
20:36:25 <Moon_> anyone able to figure out why unning a input wont work?
20:36:50 <Moon_> it acts invisible yet visible
20:37:02 <Moon_> and will crash the program when i try to print out what it got as input
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20:37:37 <gamemanj> It seems* the scanf doesn't read the line separator.
20:38:03 <gamemanj> * (I typed one 'i', pressed enter, program exited, probably due to reading the newline, typed 4 'i's, pressed enter, it waited for input)
20:38:34 <Moon_> whats the newline code?
20:39:06 <gamemanj> 0x0A or decimal 10 on linux, but TBH you may want your interpreter to read code from a file, or have a separator that isn't system-dependent, like say '!'
20:40:31 <Moon_> well, im lazy but yea, i need to make it read from a code file
20:41:40 <gamemanj> hmm... I'm a bit worried that if an unmatched ] occurs the interpreter will read past the start of the program
20:42:43 <gamemanj> [gamemanj@Iwakura CIOL]$ ./a.out
20:42:44 <gamemanj> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
20:43:49 <Moon_> for me it didnt do anything
20:44:16 <gamemanj> Your '[' loops are... interesting... they don't check the initial state of the memory pointer.
20:44:48 <Moon_> [ is just a recall point for ] those loops work similar to how brainfuck ones do
20:44:48 <j-bot> Moon_: is (just a recall point for ] those loops work similar to how brainfuck ones do)
20:45:17 <Moon_> i detect a trolling chatbot
20:45:28 <j-bot> fowl: |value error: poop
20:45:34 <gamemanj> I'd assume that '[' not jumping forward on 0 is intentional, else CIOL would be directly translatable to/from Brainfuck if I'm reading this correctly
20:45:46 <gamemanj> [ print("Is this your language?")
20:45:46 <j-bot> gamemanj: |syntax error
20:45:46 <j-bot> gamemanj: | print( "Is this your language?")
20:45:52 <j-bot> gamemanj: |value error: help
20:46:03 <Moon_> gamemanj, you got that right
20:46:23 <j-bot> fowl: |value error: nil
20:46:28 <j-bot> fowl: |value error: null
20:46:30 <Moon_> but CIOL has more functions than brainfuck
20:46:35 <Moon_> so not fully translateable
20:46:42 <j-bot> fowl: |value error: false
20:46:56 <Moon_> its still in it's 'Unstable' state
20:47:47 <Moon_> its intended to be able to access diffrent IO sets besides just the console
20:48:16 <Moon_> yet again, interpreter is incomplete
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20:53:18 <Moon_> else if (current_char == 'j') { // Jump forward n spaces int i2; for (i2 = *ptr; i2 < 1; i2--) { current_char = input[++i] } }
20:53:47 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: It can do Input and Output, but can it do throughput, intraput, and interput?
20:54:06 <Moon_> and sadly i have never heard of that
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20:55:22 <myname> i'd say a pipe is a throughput
20:55:23 <hppavilion[1]> input is RealWorld -> Here (-> is not haskell, it's a representation of movement)
20:56:14 <Moon_> its gonna be able to copy text out of its own code soon
20:56:18 <Moon_> im writing that in now
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20:56:40 <Moon_> continues until it hits a ;
20:56:42 <hppavilion[1]> I'm going to change from in/out to more formal-sounding things
20:57:11 <Moon_> CIOL stands for Complex Input Output Language
20:57:25 <hppavilion[1]> endoput :: internal streamed read/write operations (e.g. buffers, functions, and generators)
20:57:52 <Moon_> which should explain the fact it has 3 registers fairly well
20:59:19 <Moon_> *gently sitting on a theoretical stack that will potentially be added
20:59:50 <Moon_> *it might make the tape redundant*
21:00:54 <Moon_> rHi, im moon, and this is a example of CIOL using the upcoming function!;
21:03:56 <Moon_> i dont ready everything
21:04:37 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Esolang Theory says that the best languages are based on mathematical... things... that have not been used on such a way before.
21:05:55 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: So just throwing things together and making a language out of it usually doesn't make beautiful esolangs; it just makes a weird-looking write-only ASM or something
21:07:22 <Moon_> ik, im still in the experimental stage on comeing up with things
21:07:44 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Now, if you use an abstract data structure that hasn't been used as a language basis before- like, say, making the function the underlying structure- THEN you're doing something novel
21:08:14 <Moon_> i had the idea of making variables and variable operations the only things that a lang supported before
21:08:40 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Yes, I know. It's a phase of esolanging. Most people who learn about Esolangs never pass it (they get bored before they hit a breakthrough), but hopefully you'll stick around long enough to make something cool :)
21:09:38 <Melvar> ` jq -rn '{a : 0, b : 1, out: []} | recurse({a : .b, b : .a + .b, out: .out + [.a]}, .a < 1000) | .out[] | tostring'
21:09:50 <Melvar> `` jq -rn '{a : 0, b : 1, out: []} | recurse({a : .b, b : .a + .b, out: .out + [.a]}, .a < 1000) | .out[] | tostring'
21:10:01 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Most traditional languages are based on hashmaps (a variable name maps to a value). Is that idea just using a set, forgoing the value assigned to the variable?
21:10:27 <HackEgo> jq: error: syntax error, unexpected '+', expecting '}' (Unix shell quoting issues?) at <top-level>, line 1: \ {a : 0, b : 1, out: []} | recurse({a : .b, b : .a + .b, out: .out + [.a]}, .a < 1000) | .out[] | tostring \ jq: error: syntax error, unexpected '+', expecting '}' (Unix shell quoting issues?
21:10:27 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
21:10:48 <hppavilion[1]> The entire language would be about testing if variable exist, rather than actually using them
21:11:37 <Moon_> look, if the language is variable oriented, things like random number gens are possible easily with a bit of uniqueness
21:14:27 <Moon_> for example: char toprint = 'c'; ostream[0 to 50] = {toprint}; string entered = istream[0 to 50]; ostream[0 to 50] = entered;
21:15:44 <Moon_> well see the 'to' thats unique to allow us to specify a range, now.. i need to think
21:17:09 <Moon_> what do you think of the idea hp
21:17:55 <hppavilion[1]> (Which is usually a bad sign for language designers, but not here xD)
21:18:42 * Moon_ asked on purpose to make sure you were paying attention, you lazy bum (xD)
21:18:58 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Um, I take it english isn't your first language?
21:19:17 <Moon_> it is :P i am grammer fail in some cases
21:19:27 <Moon_> but most likely my damn keyboard
21:20:06 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Because that could have been a little offensive. I'm not personally offended (at least, not intellectually; subconsciously, yes), but... well, you're kind of new to the channel, so that could have been taken badly
21:20:58 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Just remember that IRC doesn't have things like body language or facial expressions (that the human brain automatically picks up on, at least)
21:21:09 <impomatic> int-e: the Hilbert Curve has been added to the Box-256 leaderboard if you fancy giving it a try? :-)
21:21:41 <Moon_> ima write out some specs in my text editer to get started on that lang
21:22:02 <fowl> Moon_: put it somewhere other than a random forum
21:22:15 <fowl> A random thread on a random forum*
21:22:35 <fowl> Like github or github or the github
21:22:52 <Moon_> no, im not writing a interpreter just yet
21:22:59 <Moon_> i need to think it out
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21:44:25 <Moon_> here is what i have on specifications so far: http://pastebin.com/RaHEYXG3
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21:57:46 <`^_^> what do you want
21:57:49 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^: not found
21:57:56 <Moon_> im trying to talk to hackbot
21:58:20 <`^_^> i am an invalid program
21:58:45 <Moon_> else if (current_char == 'r') { i3 = i++; for (i4 = input[i3];i4 != ';';++i3){ if (input[i3] == ';') break; putchar(input[i3]); } }
21:58:52 <Moon_> why does that code hate spaces
21:59:00 <Moon_> when its not ment to
21:59:21 <FireFly> that's some annoying formatting for a single-line paste
21:59:48 <Moon_> and its not singleline
22:00:11 <FireFly> Well it's a single IRC message
22:00:33 <FireFly> http://xen.firefly.nu/up/2016-04-27_230025.png
22:00:33 <Moon_> fixed the printing the r problem
22:00:37 <Moon_> but the code hates spaces
22:01:00 <Moon_> it spamprints space when it reaches one
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22:01:55 <Moon_> is it because of putchar?
22:06:07 <Melvar> `` jq -rn '{a : 0, b : 1} | recurse({a : .b, b : (.a + .b)}, .a < 1000) | .a | tostring'
22:06:09 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \
22:06:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:08:09 <Melvar> `` jq -rn '{a : 0, b : 1} | recurse({a : .b, b : (.a + .b)}; .a < 1000) | .a | tostring'
22:08:11 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987
22:08:43 <int-e> impomatic: I'm trying hard to avoid looking at the box-256 stuff, hoping to priotize lambdabot work... hasn't worked out very well though, I'm spending most productive time on actual work.
22:08:54 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
22:10:33 <Moon_> http://pastebin.com/7RdsCW2d can someone help me with the problem sections in this? i marked the ones with problems with a comment
22:12:20 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ not lately; try `seen gregor ever
22:13:10 <pikhq> To be sure there's no *obvious* problems with it (modulo being Windows-specific C, which I dislike, but that's neither here nor there)
22:13:52 <Moon_> well r and R hate spaces
22:14:01 <Moon_> r will fall into a inf loop when it hits a space
22:14:13 <Moon_> R will end the reading of the code
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22:14:27 <Moon_> when it hits a space
22:14:54 <pikhq> Ah, I do see a problem with the loop in the 'r' section.
22:15:20 <pikhq> So, that loop will go until i4 is equal to ';', correct?
22:15:24 <Moon_> yea, try printing Hello, World!
22:15:40 <Moon_> and its constantly counting up each time
22:15:46 <pikhq> But, i4 only ever gets set by the "i4 = input[i3]" statement which only executes *once*.
22:16:13 <pikhq> So the logic there means that if i4 != ';', you loop infinitely.
22:17:06 <pikhq> Also, just a question with [ and ]: are you intending those to work like in Brainfuck?
22:17:20 <pikhq> Because if so, it doesn't work.
22:17:32 <Moon_> No, it has to be a little diffrent
22:17:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb).
22:17:40 <Moon_> They do work, right?
22:17:59 <pikhq> It looks to me like what you have is more like a do-while loop than a while-loop.
22:18:12 <Moon_> Yup, they do, they printed out the entire ansii set
22:18:13 <pikhq> But assuming that's what you *meant*, it at least looks right.
22:19:05 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:20:11 <Moon_> r reacts with Space in specific
22:20:55 <pikhq> I'm going to guess that's coincidence. I *think* the string "rr;" would also show the symptom though.
22:21:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:22:03 <pikhq> Oh, wait, i++; i3 = i++; You need a longer string to trigger it.
22:22:32 <pikhq> "rrr;" or some such
22:22:52 <Moon_> a longer string made it shift back one and miss a letter
22:23:28 <Moon_> that was due to a change i made
22:24:14 <Moon_> the operations get locked into one scope
22:24:27 <Moon_> so operands are not read during r
22:24:37 <Moon_> r only checks for a ;
22:26:55 <Moon_> really i have no flipping idea what causes the space glitch
22:27:30 <pikhq> My advice is to use a debugger and single-step.
22:29:21 <Moon_> im terrible with debuggers *sigh*
22:30:02 <Moon_> I figured it out, its running off the edge of the memory
22:30:12 <Moon_> i figured out one thing
22:32:45 -!- `^_^ has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:34:46 <Moon_> can you help me out by looking into this ass wel pik
22:42:10 <FreeFull> Writing a TUI program is very instructive
22:43:23 <Moon_> scanf stops at the first space
22:43:37 <pikhq> Ah, yes, I wasn't even looking at that!
22:43:55 <pikhq> Right, using scanf to slurp in the input might not be the best choice.
22:44:03 <Moon_> whats a better way to get input?
22:45:27 <pikhq> Um, for exactly what you're doing I'd just use fgets. Ideally you'd actually use getline and accept arbitrary sized lines, but mingw doesn't have that.
22:46:16 <pikhq> fgets(input, sizeof(input), stdin); basically.
22:46:25 <Moon_> yea, im trying file input
22:46:29 <Moon_> and do you mean gets?
22:46:32 <Moon_> fgets is for files
22:46:55 <pikhq> By the way, the input and output are also files.
22:47:05 <pikhq> stdin and stdout refer to them, and are FILE* objects.
22:47:17 <pikhq> For any function that works on FILEs, you can just use those.
22:47:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:47:46 <pikhq> For example, getchar() is literally just fgetc(stdin).
22:52:47 <Kaynato> Is there a C library out there that does the whole "pixel drawing" thing pretty well?
22:53:47 <FireFly> I guess it depends on how you define "pretty well"
22:54:22 <Melvar> Also depends on how you define “pixel drawing”.
22:54:34 <FireFly> But it's a C library, relatively light, and it's relatively easy to open a window with a framebuffer
23:03:00 <fizzie> The for (i2 = *ptr; i2 < 1; i2--) loops are still incredibly suspicious. Since they're all unsigned type, it runs once if *ptr == 0, and not at all if *ptr is any other value (because "i2 < 1" will be false).
23:04:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
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23:12:12 <Moon_> CIOL is now pretty much bug free! http://pastebin.com/8nV6eP85
23:13:01 <Moon_> well, my interpreter is
23:13:06 <Moon_> it also takes file input now
23:17:19 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:18:26 <int-e> impomatic: also, I first want to figure out how to do those carpets efficiently (number of cycles)... maybe next weekend.
23:18:32 <Moon_> http://pastebin.com/8nV6eP85
23:18:45 <oerjan> <shachaf> any other heuristics like that? <-- lots, although i don't remember them at the moment as i've been on slant for a while.
23:19:03 -!- XorSwap has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:19:17 <Moon_> thats my first actually useful and logical language
23:21:04 <oerjan> Moon_: are you sure [ should be like that, you seem to be in the NewbieFuck trap
23:21:11 <fizzie> I don't believe your j/J.
23:21:16 <fizzie> For the reasons already outlined.
23:21:54 <Moon_> i wasnt paying much attention to other things
23:22:24 <HackEgo> U+1F344 MUSHROOM \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8d 84 UTF-16BE: d83cdf44 Decimal: 🍄 \ 🍄 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
23:22:25 <Moon_> heres something i came up with otherwise: http://pastebin.com/RaHEYXG3
23:22:59 <boily> I can see the mushroom!
23:23:01 <oerjan> i guess with all the jumps a normal [ isn't necessary
23:23:34 <fizzie> (In particular, j jumps forward 1 character if the current value is 0, and not at all if it's anything else.)
23:24:37 <Moon_> j is suppost to go forward, i forgot to test it
23:24:51 <oerjan> oh right, the tests are reversed
23:25:30 <Moon_> i mixed up the logic
23:26:01 * oerjan is starting to worry about losing count here
23:26:18 <fizzie> (The file input is also pretty bizarre.)
23:26:46 <Moon_> im weloming someone to improve it :P
23:27:15 -!- XorSwap has joined.
23:27:17 <Moon_> anyways, did this fix the j and J problem? http://pastebin.com/kvpJGJEr
23:27:26 <oerjan> hm shachaf is idle, oh well if he just straight out speaks to me through the logs then he'd better expect the same back.
23:27:52 <Moon_> wait i realized it didnt
23:28:05 <boily> oerjan: I think you were up to f hth
23:28:43 <fizzie> Incidentally, the types of "input" and "input2" are wrong.
23:28:46 <oerjan> <fowl> `unidecode 🍄 <-- . o O ( is there a BEAVER )
23:28:59 <HackEgo> U+18F3 CANADIAN SYLLABICS BEAVER DENE L \ UTF-8: e1 a3 b3 UTF-16BE: 18f3 Decimal: ᣳ \ ᣳ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+18F4 CANADIAN SYLLABICS BEAVER DENE R \ UTF-8: e1 a3 b4 UTF-16BE: 18f4 Decimal: ᣴ \ ᣴ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
23:29:37 <fizzie> Reasonable choices would be "char input[100]" or a "char *input" pointing at something, but not a "char *input[100]" -- that's an array of 100 pointers.
23:29:40 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:30:26 <oerjan> boily: i said i was starting to worry, not that i thought i'd already done so.
23:31:26 <Moon_> fixing that and the j+J problem right now
23:32:02 <Moon_> http://pastebin.com/Hpepq8AE
23:32:58 <shachaf> oerjan: but i don't logread
23:33:11 <shachaf> oerjan: anyway isn't speaking to you through the logs the best method
23:33:30 <Melvar> Hi oerjan. Do you know of jq?
23:34:01 <oerjan> shachaf: for reaching me it works, for getting a response, less certain.
23:34:22 <oerjan> Melvar: first time i heard of it was in the channel yesterday.
23:34:30 <Moon_> i searched pastebin
23:34:39 <Moon_> and found someone made brainfuck with graphics
23:34:41 <Moon_> http://pastebin.com/5GgQKbL3
23:36:04 <fizzie> There was a demoscene thing that mapped the brainfuck tape to the 320x200 VGA frame buffer, I forget what it was called.
23:36:40 <oerjan> b_jonas: anyone you know?
23:36:46 <fizzie> Could only find http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060 offhand.
23:36:48 <Moon_> well this one uses the C# graphics api (i hate C#)
23:37:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:38:11 <Moon_> i went pastebin diving and found a graphical brainfuck implentation: http://pastebin.com/5GgQKbL3
23:38:58 <Moon_> so im never gonna find out
23:39:24 <Moon_> its a maping the tape to a picture type
23:39:34 <HackEgo> :-( \ !\.´ \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ply-3.8.tar.gz \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ things_with_hg_in_them_in_bin.txt \ tmf
23:39:40 -!- XorSwap has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:39:42 -!- nathaly has joined.
23:39:57 <Moon_> that means making pictures in brainfuck
23:40:08 <oerjan> i'm going to assume it's unpacked in that directory
23:40:37 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: were you using that?
23:41:18 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmf: No such file or directory
23:41:23 <Melvar> oerjan: jq’s filters seem closely related to the List Kleisli arrow.
23:41:27 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i like to purge toplevel `ls down to one line on occasion.
23:41:38 <HackEgo> Complaints.mp3: ASCII text
23:41:44 <oerjan> Melvar: aka list monad...
23:41:44 <fizzie> That's some extension.
23:41:47 <Moon_> there is a folder named dog moon
23:42:09 <HackEgo> cat: moons: No such file or directory
23:42:13 <Melvar> oerjan: Well, the way you use it is essentially in arrow form.
23:42:15 <HackEgo> cat: 2: No such file or directory
23:42:52 <Moon_> `cat complaints.mp3
23:42:52 <HackEgo> cat: complaints.mp3: No such file or directory
23:43:24 <HackEgo> cat: complaints: No such file or directory
23:43:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lls: not found
23:43:30 <HackEgo> :-( \ !\.´ \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
23:43:34 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But I might have someday :P <-- that looks easy to regenerate, anyway.
23:43:51 <Moon_> `cat Complaints.mp3
23:44:03 <HackEgo> Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint \ now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved \ The complaints above are not using periods properly. \ All of the complaints are about the complai
23:44:29 <fizzie> It's also pretty long.
23:44:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: oh wait, you meant ply, yeah that's still there. although i might move it eventually.
23:44:34 <fizzie> There's a lot to complain about.
23:44:44 <Moon_> how do you add to it
23:44:58 <fizzie> I assume someone added the .mp3 extension due to the first one.
23:45:40 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/le/mma: No such file or directory
23:45:58 <oerjan> <fizzie> That's some extension. <-- well someone complained that it didn't have an extension, so i gave it one hth
23:46:15 -!- nathaly has quit (Quit: Saliendo).
23:46:21 <Melvar> oerjan: Something like, jq’s . is id and | is (>>>). |= is the basis of first- and second-like things.
23:46:47 <Moon_> someone made a brainfuck interpreter in LOLCODE
23:46:49 <Moon_> http://pastebin.com/1PPj6SyA
23:47:00 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv.
23:47:31 <HackEgo> :-( \ !\.´ \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
23:48:44 <hppavilion[1]> Someone complete this: `mkx theorems/lesser pythagorean//The Lesser Pythagorean Theorem states that
23:49:12 <boily> \oren\: he\\oren\. your backslashes, they irk me hth
23:49:32 <hppavilion[1]> boily: But they make the porthello so beautiful...
23:49:44 <oerjan> <Moon_> how do you add to it <-- with the `complain command
23:50:09 <Moon_> `complain nix is too hard for meh
23:50:13 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
23:50:16 <boily> hppavilion[1]: hppavellon[1]. that's the problem. they're just a pain to latexify.
23:50:39 <fizzie> oerjan: I've been assuming `complain entirely ignores the complaint.
23:51:04 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" >> Complaints.mp3; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.
23:51:05 <Moon_> `complain This can be botted to easy
23:51:08 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
23:51:29 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: Huh. It seemed like the obvious assumption.
23:51:50 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Doesn't sound very hard <-- <brag> try the one in Fueue </brag>
23:52:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: new: not found
23:52:23 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:52:29 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
23:52:50 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ blessyou \ bookofeso \
23:52:50 <Moon_> mk test//moonwashere
23:52:54 <fowl> `echo hello > hello.hello
23:53:16 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: No, the x needs to be included or it's a massive pain
23:53:18 <fowl> It didn't work did it
23:53:37 <Moon_> `mkx test//moonwashere
23:53:40 <fizzie> The x just makes things executable.
23:53:42 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Someone complete this: `mkx theorems/lesser <-- itym `mk not `mkx hth
23:54:00 <HackEgo> :-( \ !\.´ \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
23:54:17 <fowl> I'm starting my own channel
23:54:27 <Moon_> where was test put?
23:54:41 <fowl> The same thing as this channel but with less robots
23:54:42 <oerjan> <fizzie> oerjan: I've been assuming `complain entirely ignores the complaint. <-- it used to, but then someone (iirc zzo38) changed it.
23:55:06 <fizzie> fungot: Join #tesoeric.
23:55:06 <fungot> fizzie: where practical programming r6rs would be nice, when i pass 6 ( is return right? my dad joined the navy underaged so he could sell it to the lispme list. to make those other packets go out via different interfaces. why do you build it
23:55:18 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ blessyou \ bookofeso \
23:55:33 <HackEgo> 1:2/And #esoteric was without denizens, and empty; and the order was on the face of the PDP-8. And the software of fungot moved upon the face of the scrollback.
23:56:03 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin\bf\: No such file or directory
23:56:17 <hppavilion[1]> `bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
23:56:36 <hppavilion[1]> I don't know why, but `bf <hold +>. is one of my favourite games
23:56:58 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> `help mkx <-- alas `help is one of the builtin commands we cannot improve.
23:57:01 <Moon_> bf +.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.
23:57:19 <Moon_> `bf +.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.
23:58:12 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: No, the x needs to be included or it's a massive pain <-- only for executables, duh
23:58:39 <fizzie> oerjan: Say "ping" when you've caught up to this.
23:58:43 <fizzie> (Just doing some measurements here.)
23:59:05 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Nospam. <-- hey don't overdo _that_ either, testing HackEgo is traditional.
23:59:39 <oerjan> <fowl> The same thing as this channel but with less robots <-- you cannot have real geeks without robots hth