←2016-12-25 2016-12-26 2016-12-27→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:01:57 <brade> f(moo)^pi
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00:02:33 <rdococ> uh
00:03:18 <moony> rdococ, ??
00:03:39 <rdococ> moo
00:21:37 <rdococ> hppavilion[0], bored
00:22:14 <rdococ> moony
00:22:27 <moony> ?
00:22:31 <rdococ> bored
00:23:01 <moony> try Dwarf Fortress :D there is a help channel for it on Freenode too, its #dwarffortress
00:23:21 <rdococ> nah
00:23:41 <myname> there also is a book from oreilly
00:23:56 <rdococ> oh reilly?
00:24:03 <myname> yarly
00:25:06 <moony> mhm
00:25:08 <moony> there is
00:25:15 <rdococ> imagine an alien timeline where we use ratios (3:3) instead of dividing (3/6)
00:25:20 <moony> i own a copy, it helped me get started, its really well written :P
00:25:38 <myname> i started with some youtube tutorial
00:25:55 <moony> the tutorials on the wiki and the ones on Youtube are also usually really good
00:25:55 <myname> it has a point after 30 minutes of cut video where the player said
00:26:10 <oerjan> rdococ: i'd say that's unrealistic, but then i think of egyptian fractions.
00:26:11 <myname> "finally, we are in the game. this is, where most of the players quit, too"
00:26:33 <moony> wew
00:26:43 <myname> somewhere on the wiki even is a tutorial with a downloadable save game to tell you exactly what to do. i fail to find it again, though
00:26:49 * moony throws a pregnned world
00:26:54 <rdococ> :p
00:27:11 <shachaf> oerjan: People already use that for odds.
00:27:20 <rdococ> ik
00:27:25 <rdococ> but what if we used it in math too?
00:27:44 <shachaf> odds are maths
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00:27:54 <rdococ> ik but I meant other regions of math
00:28:09 <myname> i don't even
00:28:11 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm pretty sure this : doesn't mean the same thing hth
00:28:11 * moony builds a robotic arm to deny ALL bard petitions, because bards are useless
00:28:26 <oerjan> wait
00:28:28 <rdococ> nono, it does
00:28:31 <oerjan> ooh
00:28:33 <rdococ> 50:50 is 50 of one, and 50 of the other
00:28:36 <rdococ> aka 1/2
00:28:57 <oerjan> shocking
00:29:01 <moony> but are ratios not built atop dividing? hth
00:29:06 <rdococ> and 1:1 is the same, in fact x:x will always be 1/2 by virtue of being x/2x
00:29:36 <shachaf> Anyway, gambling people are silly.
00:29:41 <shachaf> They use words like "vigorish".
00:30:05 <myname> rdococ: that means 0/0 = .5?
00:30:21 <rdococ> myname: yes
00:30:28 <rdococ> well, for this culture anyway.
00:30:34 <rdococ> also 0/0 is any number so there's that.
00:30:47 <shachaf> any number is exactly what 0/0 isn't hth
00:31:17 <rdococ> x/y = z means that x = z*y, yes?
00:31:34 <rdococ> thus, 0/0 = z means that 0 = z*0... and that is true for all numbers
00:31:56 <shachaf> No, it menas that x*y^-1 = z
00:32:25 <rdococ> uh, how does that prove my point wrong?
00:32:46 <myname> it does so for not having 0^-1 defined per definition of a field
00:33:26 <rdococ> this isn't what we were discussing...
00:33:29 <oerjan> > 0/0
00:33:32 <lambdabot> NaN
00:33:39 <oerjan> Not any Number hth
00:33:47 <myname> lol
00:33:58 <rdococ> NaN is a programming construct
00:35:53 <int-e> > let x = 0/0 in x == x
00:35:56 <lambdabot> False
00:36:00 <int-e> my favorite
00:36:04 <moony> lol
00:36:09 <moony> > ? ===
00:36:12 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘?’
00:36:20 <moony> do we have type comparison? (i.e. ===)
00:36:28 <moony> > let x = 0/0 in x === x
00:36:31 <lambdabot> error:
00:36:31 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty)
00:36:31 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M868981330148735378818045’
00:36:37 <myname> == is type comparison by definition
00:36:47 <myname> you cannot compare different types in haskell
00:37:07 <moony> ik, i ment precision, i.e. NaN === NaN = true
00:37:22 <moony> dohwell
00:37:25 <myname> NaN is per definition false for every co parison
00:37:46 <rdococ> what a (not a) number
00:37:51 <int-e> > toRational (0/0 :: Float)
00:37:57 <lambdabot> (-510423550381407695195061911147652317184) % 1
00:38:13 <moony> #weee-data-derping
00:38:27 <int-e> One of the darker corners of Haskell.
00:39:38 <shachaf> I like the naming choices for that class.
00:39:39 <shachaf> @src Real
00:39:39 <lambdabot> class (Num a, Ord a) => Real a where
00:39:39 <lambdabot> toRational :: a -> Rational
00:39:57 <int-e> > realToFrac (1/0 :: Float) :: Double
00:40:01 <lambdabot> 3.402823669209385e38
00:40:27 <int-e> that one becomes Infinity with sufficient optimization.
00:40:46 <rdococ> huh
00:40:56 <rdococ> who knew 3.402823669209385e38 = infinity?
00:40:58 <int-e> @src realToFrac
00:40:59 <lambdabot> realToFrac = fromRational . toRational
00:41:21 <myname> lol
00:41:24 <int-e> that's the official story, but with optimization that conversion will be done by the FPU.
00:41:40 <int-e> As I said, it's a dark corner.
00:42:19 <rdococ> then put a light
00:42:45 <int-e> good idea... fetch me some gasoline and fabric and a matchbox
00:43:49 <rdococ> what about a programming language that treats cardinals and ordinals differently?
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00:45:09 <myname> like, you couldn't do array[len(array)-1]?
00:45:18 <int-e> cardinals are just ordinals that have no smaller ordinals that have a bijection to them
00:45:54 <int-e> (so no, even in mathematics I prefer not to distinguish between the two)
00:46:09 <rdococ> k
00:46:35 <int-e> if you want to be cute, why not have n have a container view, where it's [0..n-1]?
00:46:46 <int-e> s/have/let/
00:46:53 <rdococ> container view?
00:47:08 <int-e> for i in 3: print i --> prints 0,1,2.
00:47:08 <Taneb> A language where everything is C-style Undefined Behaviour
00:47:23 <int-e> (python-like syntax)
00:47:30 <Taneb> But this isn't immediately obvious from the specification
00:47:51 <int-e> so... basically... C. :-P
00:47:57 <rdococ> lol
00:48:05 <myname> 0.upto(2) |i| p i
00:48:15 <moony> > ["taneb"..]
00:48:18 <lambdabot> error:
00:48:18 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Enum [Char])
00:48:18 <lambdabot> arising from the arithmetic sequence ‘"taneb" .. ’
00:48:22 <moony> *tests ftl
00:48:56 <rdococ> what about a language where the only type is a boolean (along with arrays eg boolean[]) and you have to construct classes such as integer?
00:49:30 <moony> sounds intresting
00:49:30 <int-e> that reminds me that I should learn a bit more about VHDL
00:49:47 <int-e> (its capabilities)
00:49:58 <myname> i thpught about something similar, but instead of bits you'd have half of a bit. you could either get its value or have an endless loop on access
00:50:00 <moony> you can construct anything binary out of booleans. (i once made a 64bit integer out of bools in C++ ftl, lost the file due to new laptop)
00:50:13 <rdococ> (Actually no arrays - they require numbers)
00:50:23 <rdococ> half of a bit :p
00:50:27 <rdococ> like the idea
00:50:33 <moony> rdococ, 2 bits per array? :P
00:50:41 <int-e> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Kayak sort of fits the bill... even though those are stacks of booleans
00:50:44 <rdococ> moony, that's possible
00:50:59 <myname> boolfuck is a thing, too
00:51:03 <int-e> (The main point of kayak is different, of course)
00:51:11 <rdococ> k
00:59:00 <moony> REST IN PIECES FORT.
00:59:22 <moony> i dont have a military. *smelts some silver bars for weapons* SUDDENLY WEREBEAT
00:59:31 <rdococ> maybe start with a two bit adder and multiplier
00:59:44 <rdococ> then use them like logic circuits
01:00:07 <moony> rdococ, how about basic NOT gates instead? they are basic gates and can make ALL the things
01:00:24 <rdococ> they can?
01:00:43 <myname> how can a unary gate make any binary function?
01:00:49 <rdococ> exactly
01:01:11 <moony> no, inversion of the a bit is the notgate im describing
01:01:19 <moony> 1 -> 0 0 -> 1
01:01:19 <rdococ> oh?
01:01:33 <rdococ> the a bit?
01:02:05 <myname> how do you make an and out of that
01:02:32 <rdococ> what does the a bit mean, moony?
01:02:34 <moony> AND = 'C = NOT A; D = NOT B; NOT (A OR B)'
01:02:39 <moony> technically you need a OR gate as well
01:02:46 <moony> wait
01:02:47 <moony> err
01:02:48 <moony> derp
01:02:58 <moony> replace the second A and B's with D and C
01:03:14 <myname> you could instead just use NOR
01:03:28 <myname> where you would not need another gate
01:03:30 <moony> yes, NOR works too
01:03:47 <moony> NOR can function as a NOT and a OR at the same time.
01:03:51 <rdococ> just have a NOR or NAND gate
01:03:53 <rdococ> simple
01:03:58 <myname> works. instead of just not
01:04:13 <rdococ> the "NOT gate" works alone... NOT
01:05:09 <moony> i haz been corrected.
01:05:16 <rdococ> u haz.
01:05:43 <rdococ> "tea or coffee?" "yes."
01:06:02 <moony> "tea or coffee" "true"
01:07:02 * moony suddenly accidentally squirts lemon juice in his eye. FU
01:07:13 <rdococ> "I need you to go to the shop. get me some bread, and if there are eggs get me a dozen." he returns with a dozen loaves.
01:08:16 <rdococ> k
01:08:21 <moony> k
01:08:27 <rdococ> the way my language will work is that you only get access to NAND
01:08:35 <rdococ> good luck
01:08:51 * moony constructs a binary Adder
01:08:51 <myname> easy
01:09:02 <moony> peasy lemon
01:09:04 <myname> have a look at funciton
01:09:41 <rdococ> ik it's easy
01:09:42 <moony> my response to funciton when i first saw it: U CAN NO QUINE. AAA U CAN NO QUINE!
01:09:45 <rdococ> squeezy
01:09:50 <moony> lemon
01:10:06 <myname> sre you sure you cannot?
01:10:31 <moony> myname, i discovered its possible after reading the article a little, but its absur- wait wrong planguage
01:10:47 <moony> wait
01:10:55 <moony> not wrong language at all
01:13:01 * moony connects ALL the wires to themselves
01:13:29 <rdococ> no, PLANGUAGE
01:14:36 * oerjan points rdococ at NANDYPANTS
01:14:36 <moony> rdococ, your going to turn my typo into something else arn't you lol
01:14:54 <rdococ> planguage
01:15:02 <rdococ> its the language of planguage
01:15:17 * moony steals nandypants' pants. nandy is left alone :(
01:15:35 <moony> rdococ, how about cocodr
01:15:44 <rdococ> no.
01:15:45 <moony> or drcoco
01:15:50 <rdococ> 101010.
01:15:53 <moony> lol
01:16:53 <oerjan> hm i don't think this is the language i wanted
01:17:05 <oerjan> _even_ though Taneb invented it.
01:17:46 <moony> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton/Quine < rdococ
01:18:29 <oerjan> ferNANDo it was.
01:19:55 <rdococ> I still think we should all use When
01:20:07 <rdococ> nono
01:20:14 <rdococ> not the kind of When that... already... exists -.-
01:21:54 <moony> i will use it When it doesnt exist
01:24:21 <myname> does tc imply possibility of quine?
01:26:19 <moony> dont think so
01:32:32 <rdococ> kay so Planguage will be some form of super turing complete language
01:33:02 <moony> wew, a turing complete superset isnt easy to make (i dont know if its possible)
01:33:49 <rdococ> we are not TC machines are we?
01:33:56 <myname> have a look at twoducks
01:33:57 <rdococ> we only have a limited capacity for information.
01:34:17 <rdococ> yet we can tell whether a piece of code will halt or not.
01:34:28 <myname> we cannot
01:34:34 <rdococ> test me.
01:35:26 <myname> i can write something like a 200 indirect recursion where each step may or may not terminate based on its input
01:35:54 <myname> you would need a hell of a lot of time to tell me if this will halt or not
01:36:00 <rdococ> still not infinite.
01:36:05 <moony> myname, then we can make a chart that shows what input makes each one halt, and make a set of definitive halting paths and not halting paths
01:36:24 <rdococ> see?
01:36:36 <rdococ> if non-TC machines can solve it, there's no excuse for TC machines.
01:36:49 <myname> yeah, good luck of testing a arbitrary deep arbitrary wide tree for not halting paths
01:37:09 <moony> Time requirement != uncomputable
01:37:10 <rdococ> depends.
01:37:16 <rdococ> that's true too...
01:37:21 <rdococ> I believe what we need here is a different approach to basic logic.
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01:38:01 <myname> moony: i know, but humans have very very limited ressources
01:38:03 <rdococ> say we have a program p that halts if it does not halt. So doesHalt(p) or a similar function would return !doesHalt(p).
01:38:16 <rdococ> myname: imagine an ideal superhuman then.
01:38:22 <myname> "we can tell" is simply not true
01:38:33 <rdococ> an ideal superhuman would be able to tell.
01:38:39 <myname> and all ypu mentioned can be done by a tm too
01:39:06 <myname> just formulate some kind of halting problem for humans
01:39:20 <rdococ> test me.
01:39:42 <moony> ^
01:39:44 <myname> this sentence is false.
01:39:51 <myname> determine the truthness of that
01:39:55 <rdococ> that sentence is false if it's not false.
01:40:02 <moony> seriously? its called a 'paradocx' for a reason, but yes, ^
01:40:14 <rdococ> the truthness of that is its inverse.
01:40:25 <rdococ> it's not an incorrect answer.
01:40:27 <myname> that is not a truth value
01:40:33 <rdococ> well make it one.
01:40:40 <myname> it is. valid answers are true and false
01:40:57 <rdococ> if the truthness is not a truth value, the truthness is not a truth value.
01:41:13 <moony> myname, we all know NOTHING can compute the truthness of a logic paradox :P
01:41:33 <myname> moony: welcome to the halting problem
01:41:34 <rdococ> too bad we can't make our own logic system up that can give paradoxes one simple answer---OH WAIT WE CAN
01:41:47 <moony> rdococ, dont take this too far >_>
01:41:55 <rdococ> let's compact this sentence into one program f = !f.
01:42:09 <moony> but hey, i welcome a esoteric logic system ^_^
01:42:13 <myname> but to repeat: have a look at twoducks
01:42:15 <rdococ> if f was true then it would be false, and if it was false it would be true
01:42:28 <moony> rdococ, look at twoducks, as myname said
01:42:31 <rdococ> the conclusion I could come to is that f is both truthful and false
01:44:04 <moony> ??
01:44:43 <myname> in common boolean logic, this cannot be
01:44:46 <rdococ> if f is true then f is false and if f is false then f is true
01:45:22 <rdococ> thus, all we would need is to remove the mutually exclusivity of true and false.
01:45:31 <myname> depending on your basic ruleset you can even prove that a and not a has to be false
01:45:46 <myname> this would break almost anything
01:46:06 <myname> every*
01:46:13 <rdococ> true...
01:46:18 <rdococ> so that's not what I'm gonna go for.
01:46:50 <rdococ> Actually, why would it break everything?
01:47:10 <rdococ> being both true and false is an undesirable condition but forced when f = !f.
01:47:27 <rdococ> Actually no, I have an idea.
01:47:37 <myname> how would you know in any given formula if it is forced or not
01:47:52 <rdococ> a new truth value - I will call it parth - is equal to its inverse.
01:48:00 <myname> also, it would make NP trivial to solve
01:48:00 <rdococ> !parth = parth.
01:48:22 <myname> since now every formula is satisfiable
01:48:39 <rdococ> myname: would this problem occur with parth too?
01:48:41 <moony> rdococ, sounds.... fuzzy
01:48:50 <rdococ> ikr was just about to say that
01:49:00 <rdococ> anyway, f = !f = parth.
01:49:10 <moony> myname, would that allow me to get rdococ's mom's phonenumber?
01:49:12 <myname> rdococ: what is true and parth?
01:49:34 <rdococ> myname: parth. imagine multiplication: 1 * 0.5 = 0.5
01:49:40 <myname> moony: if it's somewhere in the cloud
01:49:45 <rdococ> this is fuzzy logic
01:49:48 <rdococ> nothing esoteric about it
01:50:07 <myname> just not boolean anymore
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01:50:17 <rdococ> see... parth can't be !parth because x&!x should always be false
01:50:35 <myname> also, fuzzy logic is not that well defined
01:50:36 <rdococ> but x&x is always x... so is parth&!parth parth, !parth, or false?
01:50:50 <rdococ> Okay, how about this.
01:50:57 <myname> what is true or parth? what is parth or parth?
01:51:36 <rdococ> 100% or 50% -> 100%. 50% or 50% -> different values depending on the context?
01:51:47 <rdococ> imagine a quantum variable, yet to collapse, named q.
01:51:57 <rdococ> actually, let's make it a capital Q to show its worth.
01:52:27 <moony> rdococ: E = MQ^2 (jk)
01:52:36 <myname> logic that depends on context is not a logic i would want to use
01:52:59 <rdococ> now, Q and !Q are different, but they both have 50% probability - that's the issue with representing probabilities as mere percentages.
01:53:14 <rdococ> Q & !Q = false, but 50% * 50% = 25%.
01:53:49 <rdococ> each unrelated quantum influence will be notated with a capital letter.
01:54:05 <rdococ> so Q & W is 25% probable.
01:54:17 <rdococ> makes sense?
01:54:40 <moony> half-parth? (just a example of me not understanding due to my tiny brain)
01:55:09 <rdococ> parth and parth?
01:55:16 <moony> rdococ, using ur ne logic i derived ur mom's phone number.
01:55:25 <rdococ> really? what is it?
01:55:34 <moony> 123-456-XKCD
01:55:42 <rdococ> XKCD?
01:55:45 <rdococ> nope
01:55:52 <myname> look, 4 quantum effects
01:56:00 <rdococ> oh
01:56:06 <myname> just wait until they collapse tocthe right number
01:56:13 <moony> rdococ, 25% * 25% = more issues
01:56:17 <rdococ> they don't collapse while you're logicing
01:56:32 <rdococ> 1/4 * 1/4 = 1/16
01:57:18 <rdococ> you see, myname, letters on a screen will not collapse into the answer.
01:57:32 <tswett> `loudly Merry Christmas!
01:57:45 <rdococ> honestly, why I brought up the word "quantum" I don't know.
01:57:47 <moony> it could go on forever rdococ
01:57:49 <HackEgo> Merry Christmas!
01:58:26 <moony> 1/2,???,??? iminent
01:58:28 <rdococ> the point is, have multiple unrelated probabilistic variables which interact differently with themselves and their inverses than eachother.
01:59:05 <rdococ> e.g. if Q and W are 1/2 probable, Q & Q = Q, but Q & W = a 1/4 probable value.
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01:59:21 <moony> `loudly 4EVER
01:59:28 <HackEgo> 2 45E6V7E8R
01:59:29 <rdococ> makes sense?
01:59:46 <moony> rdococ++
02:00:00 <rdococ> oh yay karma
02:00:07 <rdococ> or am I being succeeded?
02:00:23 <moony> it makes sense rdococ
02:00:35 <rdococ> thank you.
02:01:21 <moony> that is, for someone who is stil learning math and doesnt know too much lol
02:01:37 <rdococ> this is boolean logic, not maths
02:01:42 <rdococ> well, "boolean" logic
02:02:10 <rdococ> though I realize it was NOTHING to do with quantum mechanics.
02:02:38 <moony> rdococ, the 'derived your mom's phone number' thing was a XKCD joke >_>
02:02:49 <rdococ> I could tell -.-
02:03:08 <rdococ> ik what XKCD is >.<
02:03:35 <rdococ> it's 4 probability values multiplied together. also known as 0.5^4.
02:04:13 <myname> what you just described is independency of random variables
02:04:28 <rdococ> well, this already had to be done hadn't it
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02:05:40 <rdococ> at the end of the day, if f = !f and f & !f = 0, then f & f = 0. but f =/= 0, it's a different value that fits the requirement f&f=0.
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02:14:20 <rdococ> so the idea is that true is a 100% probability T and !T=F.
02:24:50 <\oren\> Helblinde - The Story of Mob
02:26:01 <rdococ> At its highest, x&y can be min(x,y) - as is the case with x&x. At its lowest, the two can cancel out - x&!x.
02:26:23 <\oren\> http://i.imgur.com/INBZ1VG.gifv
02:27:02 <rdococ> Mario = a douche, scientifically confirmed
02:27:50 <myname> how so
02:28:02 <rdococ> click the link
02:28:03 <\oren\> gif
02:29:17 <myname> there is a mario maker level where yoshi gets his revenge
02:29:32 <myname> from within a clown car
02:41:10 <tswett> So here's a puzzle.
02:41:18 <tswett> Write a computer program that determines whether or not Queen Elizabeth II has died.
02:42:57 <\oren\> simple, scan wikipedia every 10 minutes
02:43:33 <tswett> Yeah, there are probably a ton of places you can parse it out of Wikipedia.
02:44:38 <\oren\> and maybe you can from historical data predict which would be updated first
02:46:03 <tswett> Bring up the Queen's Wikipedia page. That information will be in a dozen places.
02:46:46 <tswett> There's a bit that says "born 21 April 1926". See if that gets updated to include a second date.
02:47:01 <tswett> Look at any of the templates that have a parameter for date of death or end of reign.
02:49:39 <tswett> Another idea I had was to look for a spike in the Twitter hashtag #kingcharles.
02:50:04 <oerjan> check for the {{recent death}} template
02:51:28 <rdococ> connect a nanomachine to her
02:52:32 <\oren\> Max Coveri - Running In The Nieties (Vaporwave Edit)
02:54:39 <rdococ> \/oren\/
02:54:57 <\oren\> why are so many of the youtubers I subscribe to german for some reason
02:55:26 <hppavilion[0]> \oren\: Assassinate her and just set queen_is_dead = True
02:55:35 <hppavilion[0]> Wait
02:55:37 <hppavilion[0]> tswett: ^
02:55:57 <rdococ> hoh
02:56:01 <tswett> Shush, I don't want the coppers coming after me.
02:56:31 <\oren\> yeah it's certainly more germans than any other nation
02:57:29 <hppavilion[0]> tswett: But what if we change the monarchial terms at the last minute and there's a spike in #czarles?
02:57:41 <tswett> Hmm, good point.
02:58:47 <moony> im trying to play Dwarf Fortress pacifistly. (defense only). its failing miserably
02:58:48 <\oren\> #charles_zi_Britannia
02:58:58 <moony> *sillyness ensues*
02:59:51 <hppavilion[0]> tswett: You could instead check if Australia has become a republic
02:59:52 <hppavilion[0]> :P
02:59:56 <\oren\> moony: just flood the entire world with magma
03:00:16 <tswett> And how do you check if Australia has become a republic?
03:04:41 <\oren\> Ooh! Norwegian has a word "romjul" for the period between Khrisumas and nyu years
03:04:45 <\oren\> shit
03:05:46 <\oren\> why does english have so many words but lack useful ones
03:06:36 <rdococ> I know
03:06:40 <rdococ> it's ridiculous
03:06:47 <rdococ> we need to make a better english
03:07:32 <rdococ> Christnyu
03:07:56 <rdococ> Boxing period
03:08:48 <\oren\> nah let's jsut steal it from norwegian: roomyule.
03:11:33 <\oren\> I'm going to start referring to it as roomyule and hope it cates on
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03:13:16 <IceFly> we call it "mellandagar", lit. "betweendays"
03:13:16 <IceFly> because it's the days between christmas and new years', you see
03:13:17 <\oren\> that sounds more englishy
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03:15:46 <oerjan> ♫ en skulle vøri fire år i romjul'n ... ♫
03:15:51 <IceFly> and the mellandagar are known for the mellandagsrea
03:15:56 <IceFly> or betweendays sale
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03:32:51 <moony> \oren\, im making a were/underworldfort
03:32:55 <moony> :)
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07:47:10 <zzo38> Yesterday I played the Dungeons&Dragons game. I was trying to steal someone's amulet (I was impersonating my clone and managed to convince someone to tell me about it), and tried to secretly open my pocket containing marbles so that they would all fall off, but he managed to notice it.
07:48:18 <zzo38> I think that what I should do is to attach a string to back of my cloak that way the pocket can be undone from the back to make it more difficult to notice. How well you think it should help?
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08:49:22 <hppavilion[0]> zzo38: Why am I not surprised you have clones?
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08:57:52 <izabera> because you sold your soul and nothing surprises you anymore
08:59:18 <shachaf> I assume it's not zzo38 but e.g. Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe who has a clone.
09:11:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Tiny]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50601&oldid=20014 * Ron.hudson * (-36) Cleanup spelling some and change my email address.
09:46:57 <zzo38> Actually it is the other character
09:47:19 <zzo38> But yes you have a right idea
09:48:22 <shachaf> `? Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe
09:48:32 <HackEgo> Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
09:59:39 <\oren\> Ooh, I think I like this mod.
10:03:29 <\oren\> now you can have the girls from Girls Und Panzer instead of boring old hitler stalin and chuchill
10:13:42 <zzo38> shachaf: I do not know what to write either
10:23:56 <\oren\> http://ctrlv.in/912870
10:27:53 <zzo38> r5k1/1bqp2pp/1p2p1r1/3P1p2/2P5/1Q1N3n/P4PPP/R1R2B1K Black to move.
10:32:30 <zzo38> This was from a Soviet Championship, but what would you think of this? I thought of Qc5 but I am not very good at it so I don't know.
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12:24:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tiny]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50602&oldid=50486 * Ron.hudson * (+33) /* Notes */
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12:46:06 <hppavilion[0]> I'm watching <https://youtu.be/JRZgW1YjCKk?list=PLpGHT1n4-mAvcXwzOIz3dHnGZaQP1LEib>
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12:49:26 <Taneb> hppavilion[0], how're you finding it?
12:49:52 <hppavilion[0]> Taneb: I'm about 2 minutes into the first video because I keep getting other links, but I'm trying to watch :P
12:50:07 <hppavilion[0]> (I've started before, but it was a while ago and I'm taking a running start with my physics in mind)
12:51:10 <hppavilion[0]> Leonard Susskind kind of sounds like Bernie Sanders
12:51:12 <hppavilion[0]> Vaguely
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14:36:17 <Guest30717> sup
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14:48:19 <fizzie> Soup.
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15:20:43 <int-e> Hmm, food.
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15:46:47 <int-e> And GG has a shadow mystery lady... looks a bit two-dimensional though.
15:47:23 <int-e> `grwp chick
15:47:45 <HackEgo> adjective:Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens. \ chicken:chicken is boily af \ dinosaur:Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers. \ glass:I can eat glass and it doesn't hurt me. -- http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/05/new-diet.html \ Binary file reflection matches \ things boily likes:Fire is good
15:49:39 <boily> I seem to have imprinted a few chickens here and there upon the Wisdom...
15:53:09 <izabera> comment this http://ideone.com/SaeMMS
15:53:17 <izabera> a friend of mine wrote it
15:54:16 <izabera> plz
15:54:51 <boily> izabellora!
15:55:27 <izabera> merry hoilydays!
15:55:39 <boily> that's C++ with templates. I never learned that, so I can't comment. I commen't.
15:55:45 <izabera> nice
15:56:34 <boily> Joyeux Noël et Bonne Aberannée!
16:16:19 <int-e> ho++ible.
16:17:23 <int-e> so, apparently, C++ has grown compile-time evaluation (constexpr) and postfix operators.
16:18:36 <int-e> but seriously, T operator ""_foo(T...)?
16:19:46 <int-e> In any case I think I'd rather use HLists.
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16:31:08 <boily> `wisdom
16:31:15 <HackEgo> banach-tarski//"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
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16:46:41 <Taneb> izabera,
16:46:43 <Taneb> Taneb> LordAro, how does http://ideone.com/SaeMMS make you feel
16:46:43 <Taneb> <LordAro> Taneb: aroused
16:46:43 <Taneb> <LordAro> wait what
16:47:47 <Taneb> (I showed it to my C++ friend)
16:48:02 <boily> C++ developers are a weird bunch.
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17:36:39 <rdococ> C++++
17:37:37 <rdococ> A+
17:44:17 <boily> rdhellococ. careful with the plusplusing, this may invoke Lambdabotic Karma.
17:44:22 <boily> rdococ--
17:44:28 <boily> @karma rdococ
17:44:28 <lambdabot> rdococ has a karma of 0
17:44:32 <boily> rdococ++
17:44:34 <boily> @karma rdococ
17:44:34 <lambdabot> rdococ has a karma of 1
17:44:56 <rdococ> boily >> 2
17:45:01 <rdococ> @karma boily
17:45:01 <lambdabot> boily has a karma of 108
17:45:24 <rdococ> no bit-shifting?
17:45:33 <rdococ> @karma C
17:45:33 <lambdabot> C has a karma of 2
17:45:36 <izabera> int-e: what's a HList?
17:45:36 <rdococ> LOL
17:46:12 <rdococ> D++++++++
17:46:24 <rdococ> ?
17:46:27 <rdococ> nvm
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17:52:44 <brade> f(moo)^pi
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17:58:52 <myname> again ...
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18:02:56 <rdococ> e^(i*moony) / 42
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18:10:57 <rdococ> goto tells;
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18:36:31 <rdococ> what about a game scripting language which treats its programs as a mathematical game? (in mathematical game theory, not the ducky kind)
18:39:03 <rdococ> why did I pick "octagonfly" in the past as my username here? it sounds ridiculous
18:39:06 <rdococ> oh well
18:41:33 <boily> you aren't embracing the Spirit of the Chicken. your soul isn't in Harmony. take a deep breathe, relax, put a Holy Chicken on your Head. Reflect the Universe with your Own Mind.
18:46:36 <moony> ping
18:48:35 * boily echoes an æthereal pong across the Galaxy
18:52:53 * rdococ takes in a deep breath
18:52:58 * rdococ relaxes
18:53:02 * rdococ takes the holy chicken
18:53:36 * rdococ eats the holy chicken
18:53:51 <rdococ> I will now create an esoteric religion
18:54:06 <rdococ> everyone believes in the Holy Soil of the planet of Solesioanwwoejfei.
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20:21:12 <zzo38> I think that one of the problems with HTTP is lack of a standard directory listing format. So I can suggested to use a list of key/value pairs for each directory entry, with blank lines in between each entry. I can then to also add a SET method and HISTORY method; I would expect these are then sufficient.
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20:22:09 <zzo38> Do you think it is good?
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20:34:54 <boily> hezzo38. it is good.
20:43:33 <zzo38> Also a few new kind of headers, such as File-Mode and Name and Description.
20:43:47 <zzo38> (Name and Description headers are probably to be used only in directory entries.)
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20:55:43 <zzo38> O, and I missed one, which can be Last-Change which corresponds to the last status change time in UNIX fstat. Also, there are some other HTTP headers which may be useful in directory listings too such as: Accept-Ranges, Allow, Content-Language, Content-Length, Content-Location, Content-MD5, Content-Type, Last-Modified, Link, Location (for when the directory entry is a link), Vary.
20:57:37 <zzo38> And also WWW-Authenticate
21:01:21 <zzo38> Also would need to define a new MIME type for directory listings. This means that the client can request such a directory listing format by sending a suitable Accept header.
21:03:33 <moonythedwarf> EHTTP incoming
21:22:18 <zzo38> In this Dungeons&Dragons game we can be gaining the element of surprise over someone who were trying to gain the element of surprise over us. What is that called when such thing is happening?
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21:24:55 <oerjan> r.i.p. alexandrov ensemble
21:26:11 <oerjan> i only really learned about them this year, when learning two russian songs. their youtube versions were the best i found.
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21:36:49 <Zarutian> zzo38: a surprising oneupmanship?
21:37:18 <zzo38> Zarutian: Maybe it is
21:42:12 <rdococ> reverse variable assignment
21:42:48 <rdococ> x*2+1 = 3 would make x = 1 for example
21:43:09 <myname> unification
21:43:09 <zzo38> METAFONT can do that.
21:43:34 <zzo38> (Although in METAFONT, if you write that when x is already set to a different value, it is an error.)
21:43:37 <rdococ> x^2 = 2 would make x = sqrt(2) or x = -sqrt(2)
21:44:20 <rdococ> but you can't do it the other way eg. x = y^2 is not allowed, but sqrt(x) = y is
21:45:09 <myname> why that restriction
21:45:18 <myname> that's arbitrary
21:45:25 <zzo38> In METAFONT you can for example write x=y+1 and then whichever of x or y isn't set will be set so that x=y+1.
21:45:30 <myname> why not imply i 0 everywhere
21:45:44 <myname> so x*2-2 would be an assignment
21:45:55 <myname> *imply = 0
21:46:02 <zzo38> That is also the kind of ideas yes
21:46:45 <myname> in your example, sqrt(x) - y would be the same assignment as x - y^2
21:46:53 <zzo38> Making zero means true, nonzero meaning false, and then the program that is executed is to be made true, and then if it isn't true it is error or may be backtracked or caught by the exception or something
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21:56:16 <zzo38> To write x/y-1 to specify being equal and nonzero.
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22:03:20 <boily> moony-2017editio: we aren't twothousandseventeening yet hth
22:03:49 <moony-2017editio> boily, say that to <softwarenamehere> 2017 edition :P
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22:04:56 <\oren\> Ooh, I want a mod that adds anime decals to all me kerbal rockets
22:05:55 <Zarutian> what would you pay for a mod where all the kerbals, not in flight, wore StarTrek Next Generation uniforms?
22:10:44 <oerjan> `quote very soul
22:10:54 <HackEgo> No output.
22:10:59 <oerjan> hm
22:11:04 <oerjan> `quote soul
22:11:05 <HackEgo> 447) <monqy> the classic "souls have mass" hypothesis \ 853) <kmc> i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news <Bike> but at what cost? your very soul, kmc!
22:13:16 <rdococ> souls have ass
22:14:39 <rdococ> what about a standalone else operator
22:14:43 <rdococ> s/operator/conditional
22:16:48 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> And GG has a shadow mystery lady... looks a bit two-dimensional though. <-- given what gil's said about her, my obvious guess is that it's zola. but we'll see.
22:16:48 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:18:21 <oerjan> @tell int-e with the ability to copy minds, it could be any_body_, of course.
22:18:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:19:35 <oerjan> rdococ: well perl has unless and maybe haskell too.
22:19:38 <oerjan> :t unless
22:19:40 <lambdabot> Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f ()
22:19:59 <myname> ruby has unless, too
22:20:23 <rdococ> unless (bool) {code} = if (not bool) {code}
22:20:24 <myname> return unless foo
22:20:26 <zzo38> You can also define unless in Forth easily enough
22:21:00 <rdococ> I also had the idea of an "either" function eg. "x == either a or b" would be true if x == a or x == b
22:21:05 <zzo38> Some implementations may accept the following code: : UNLESS` 0=` IF` ; Others may use a bit more complicated way
22:21:33 <rdococ> this "either" class would be equal to something if any of its values were equal to it
22:21:50 <oerjan> rdococ: AAAAAA
22:22:13 <rdococ> Aaaa?
22:22:22 <rdococ> would it break anything?
22:22:33 <rdococ> not if it's in its own syntax, eg "either 2 3"...
22:22:38 <rdococ> I don't think, anyway
22:22:44 * oerjan uses leibniz rotating in his grave to power the swatting of rdococ -----###
22:22:58 <rdococ> ?
22:23:07 <oerjan> @google leibniz equality
22:23:09 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_(mathematics)
22:23:46 <rdococ> well
22:23:49 <rdococ> think of it like this
22:24:13 <rdococ> "x in {a, b}"
22:24:22 <rdococ> that is, if x is contained in the set {a, b}
22:24:48 <myname> why not use it like that?
22:24:52 <rdococ> we can simply check if set[x] = true if you implement it well, and not like a list
22:25:31 <oerjan> sure, but don't call it ==
22:25:45 <myname> call it in
22:26:22 <myname> or, you know, x `elem` [a, b]
22:28:39 <\oren\> I have #define unless(x) if(!(x))
22:28:56 <rdococ> elem
22:28:57 <rdococ> yeah
22:29:20 <Zarutian> what about: #define regardless(x) if(true)
22:29:22 <Zarutian> no?
22:29:25 <rdococ> but the either construct is LITERALLY equal to both a and b
22:29:35 <rdococ> sets, nuh uh
22:29:46 <rdococ> regardless?
22:30:36 <rdococ> regardless sounds like if you wanted to fit a snippet of code inside an if conditional that would be executed regardless of the value of the if
22:30:38 <izabera> Zarutian: that's wrong
22:30:41 <rdococ> ha, regardless
22:30:46 <izabera> should be if ((x),1)
22:31:10 * Zarutian sits corrected.
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22:32:01 <izabera> otherwise stuff with visible effects wouldn't be executed, like regardless(puts("hello world"))
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22:35:23 <rdococ> regardless, it sounds ridiculous
22:35:32 <rdococ> you might as well just do puts("hello world")
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22:45:10 <\oren\> interestng piece of history I'm wathcing on the tv right now
22:45:49 <\oren\> apparently there used to be restaurants you drove your car into and had waitressed on roller skates serve you food
22:48:39 <\oren\> the 1950's were a very different world
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23:04:55 <moony> wow
23:05:56 <Gregor> Drive-ins still exist in some places.
23:09:17 <rdococ> drive-INs?
23:09:28 <moony> hi Gregor
23:12:37 <zzo38> A kind of drive-in is still possible at White Spot
23:12:41 <Gregor> What \oren\ just described is a drive-in.
23:12:47 <Gregor> As opposed to a drive-through.
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23:43:05 <rdococ> what's cool is that it's easy to use Haskell to create my "either" construct
23:43:14 <rdococ> tbh though I think it should just be an easy shorthand
23:43:36 <rdococ> I also had the idea of an "or" function that would ask the user
23:43:59 <myname> rdococ: like, using elem?
23:44:12 <myname> sql,has this as IN
23:44:39 <rdococ> <String> or <String> = ask the user. <Bool> or <Bool> = logical OR. <X> or <Y> = my EITHER construct.
23:47:40 <zzo38> I thought to make Magic: the Gathering cards that is two instants that can meld into an Aura. The text for the unmelded side might be something like this: Choose one-- ;; - [doing something] ;; - Meld ~ with target spell you own named [name]
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