00:00:34 <wob_jonas> Question. If there's an esoteric programming language that has two names, because the original name clashes with the name of a later non-eso programming language, but later got renamed, presumably to avoid this clash, then which name should I use to refer it on the esowiki?
00:01:33 <boily> wellob_jonas. the new one, citing the previous name.
00:03:24 <oerjan> indeed it was randall's first hobby
00:03:35 <izabera> what's the largest dot in unicode?
00:03:48 * oerjan just checked all the first 37 xkcds, including hovertext
00:04:18 <\oren\> (x <~- 1) is to (x < 1) as (x < 1) is to (x <= 1)
00:06:16 <fizzie> izabera: "The Unicode standard does not define glyph images. -- The Unicode standard does not specify the precise shape, size, or orientation of on-screen characters." hth
00:06:19 <\oren\> izabera: ● is pretty big
00:07:16 <boily> izabellora. mine is bigger: ⏺
00:07:35 <izabera> thanks but my terminal doesn't render it...
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00:08:03 <fizzie> boily: ⏺ is much smaller than ● in my font, which sort of proves the point.
00:08:51 <fizzie> (I don't know if that even got through.)
00:09:04 <\oren\> it did, but for some reason it's red
00:09:41 <HackEgo> U+1F534 LARGE RED CIRCLE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 94 b4 UTF-16BE: d83ddd34 Decimal: 🔴 \ 🔴 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
00:09:45 <fizzie> It's supposed to be red.
00:09:49 <fizzie> I was just looking for "large".
00:10:02 <boily> http://imgur.com/a/sWtMq
00:10:48 <HackEgo> U+1F789 EXTREMELY HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9e 89 UTF-16BE: d83ddf89 Decimal: 🞉 \ 🞉 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
00:11:04 <fizzie> Judging from the name, that ought to be either pretty big, or at least very dense.
00:11:10 <\oren\> my fon't doesnt have that one
00:11:12 <HackEgo> [U+2B24 BLACK LARGE CIRCLE]
00:11:39 <\oren\> actually, why doesnt my fon't have it
00:11:49 <oerjan> <shachaf> `` quote int-e | shuf | head -n1 <-- shuf -n 1 hth
00:12:03 <\oren\> wait wtf fingers why are you putting the apostrofe there
00:12:19 <fizzie> There's only six X-X-X-Xtreme characters, and they're all EXTREMELY HEAVY symbols (white circle, white square, greek cross, saltire, five spoked asterisk, six spoked asterisk).
00:13:30 <fizzie> What did the cheap person buy for an engagement ring? U+1f798.
00:13:51 <izabera> how does this look? http://i.imgur.com/Iwpjjo3.png
00:15:18 <\oren\> izabera: try using ･ for the grid
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00:15:54 <fizzie> I think we talked about http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16185-go-symbols.pdf once.
00:16:14 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @tell \oren\ ⬤
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00:16:43 <izabera> \oren\: better? http://i.imgur.com/wwlb7B3.png
00:16:48 <fizzie> (It even includes the EXTREMELY HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE. Synchronicity.)
00:18:00 <\oren\> izabera: i think the root problem is that you don't have a font that supports those characters with a fixed with
00:18:17 <izabera> and if it was black's, k17 is meh
00:19:24 <HackEgo> 5quote \ addquote \ allquotes \ delquote \ pastaquote \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ quote \ quotenums \ quotes \ quoth \ randquote
00:19:37 <\oren\> win my font ･○● would work perfectly together
00:19:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ quote "$@" | shuf -n 1
00:19:58 <HackEgo> 3013:2013-05-31 <oerjän> sed -i \'1i#!/bin/bash\' bin/randquote \ 3012:2013-05-31 <oerjän> echo \'quote "$@" | shuf -n 1\' > bin/randquote \ 3011:2013-05-31 <nooodl̈_> chmod +x bin/randquote \ 3010:2013-05-31 <nooodl̈_> echo \'quote $1 | shuf | head --lines=1\' > bin/randquote
00:20:34 <boily> izabera: I may have missed counting a stone >_>'... and I stand by K17. dubious moves are best moves.
00:21:34 <HackEgo> 962) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
00:21:37 <\oren\> and with my font you could use ➊➋➌➍➎➏➐➑➒➓➀➁➂➃➄➅➆➇➈➉ to show numbers
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00:50:55 <HackEgo> copumpkin//copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president.
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01:14:28 <boily> pumpkins taste good.
01:15:31 <shachaf> `8ball do pumpkins taste good?
01:15:45 <olsner> `8ball is boily wrong?
01:16:22 <shachaf> `8ball is 8ball consistent?
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01:29:03 <fizzie> ^8ball Are you consistent?
01:29:38 <shachaf> fungot doesn't need consistency
01:29:38 <fungot> shachaf: ' been busy'.
01:30:04 <fungot> boily: jun 30 fnord bistromath fnord: client fnord: zone transfer ' gehennom.org/ in' denied
01:30:15 <boily> yup, no sentience tonight.
01:30:32 <oerjan> fungot: whence bathyspheres?
01:30:32 <fungot> oerjan: it's too difficult. :-p help would be appreciated
01:31:51 <oerjan> hm the only google hit for that phrase is me asking fungot the same thing in 2008.
01:31:52 <fungot> oerjan: for 30 years esoteric exists in outer space. sometimes they kidnap people." there?
01:32:09 <shachaf> `8ball is fungot consistent?
01:32:10 <fungot> shachaf: no such factoid i added every user on this channel.
01:32:47 <oerjan> i vaguely think i got it from someone's .sig, way back.
01:33:09 <oerjan> but google doesn't give usenet results...
01:35:00 <oerjan> grepping my Mail directory gave nothing, although i think some of the oldest files are zipped.
01:36:17 <boily> fungot: are you an eldritch horror from outer space?
01:36:18 <fungot> boily: http://rafb.net/ fnord) returns a computation whose value is the tick they expire. bought a domain or something else.
01:36:53 <shachaf> oerjan: did you try google book search hth
01:37:19 <fizzie> fungot: Whose money are you using to buy "domains or something"?
01:37:19 <fungot> fizzie: there really wouldn't be needed as you say, that it has a " poop on toast", as you
01:37:59 <fungot> shachaf: " partially" i noticed my book _is_ listed on amazon.
01:38:57 <shachaf> https://books.google.com/books?id=enmvCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA93 hth
01:39:17 <oerjan> shachaf: now i did. still no results with quotes.
01:39:38 <shachaf> well, the one i linked is only off by one letter
01:40:13 <oerjan> well it's not what i'm looking for.
01:40:53 <shachaf> `8ball Is it what oerjan is looking for?
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01:43:27 <shachaf> `8ball Should oerjan be skeptical?
01:43:27 <HackEgo> That will not be necessary.
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01:50:07 <shachaf> `8ball is oerjan getting suspicious?
01:50:08 <HackEgo> That is slowly becoming the case.
01:52:05 * boily looks shiftily at oerjan
01:53:58 <shachaf> `8ball will oerjan swat me for this?
01:55:30 <HackEgo> 5880:2015-08-02 <oerjän> revert \ 5879:2015-08-02 <oerjän> rm wisdom/output \ 3516:2013-08-28 <olsnër> touch wisdom/output
01:58:48 <oerjan> i'm sure there must have been a reason.
01:58:55 <oerjan> it's very suspicious. oh no...
01:59:33 <fizzie> oerjan: In addition to asking fungot that in 2008, you also asked the channel in general in 2011.
01:59:33 <fungot> fizzie: it was the decision to use c... oh wait. continuations probably not in the book-box.
01:59:57 <oerjan> fizzie: google didn't show that
02:00:03 <fizzie> Yes, I don't know why.
02:00:26 <oerjan> well, tunes has robots.txt.
02:01:45 <fizzie> oerjan: http://sprunge.us/dAMb
02:02:23 <shachaf> Google found one IRC occurrence but not the other.
02:03:09 <oerjan> afair it's always been spotty.
02:05:35 <shachaf> `8ball does oerjan recall correctly?
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02:06:08 <Generic> Need help with school Survey https://goo.gl/forms/Vut15Gyx19HXm81u1
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03:14:15 <\oren\> I hate fonts where Θ looks like Ⓗ
03:15:08 <HackEgo> [U+24BD CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H]
03:15:28 <HackEgo> [U+0398 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER THETA]
03:16:07 <\oren\> actually I should fix the appearance of Θ in my font, it looks weird
03:31:17 <HackEgo> U+2B24 BLACK LARGE CIRCLE \ UTF-8: e2 ac a4 UTF-16BE: 2b24 Decimal: ⬤ \ ⬤ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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03:50:59 <izabera> http://arin.ga/cligo1.mp4 spammy preview of my go client
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05:56:56 <\oren\> anyway I already complained that the growth rate of the test time is going to be n^2 with the number of features implemented
06:10:06 <izabera> http://arin.ga/cligo2.mp4 spam spam and more spam
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06:47:21 <pikhq> Looks like an interesting theorem you're working on there.
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11:37:24 <HackEgo> imaginary unit//The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love
12:20:14 <b_jonas> ARGH I started to write an article about an esolang, but I can't just make it a stub, it's getting long and there's still a lot of things I have to write about, even though I'm not trying to give a complete description in any sense.
12:20:23 <izabera> you can buy it for $20 on itunes, or you can compile it yourself
12:20:36 <izabera> and spend an afternoon trying to build it before giving up
12:20:48 <b_jonas> This happens with EVERY esolangs, which is why I have like ten esolangs on my TODO and can't just create short stubs for them that juts direct people to the right place.
12:21:41 <b_jonas> I know this happens to some other people too, but damn it's annoying.
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15:23:02 <HackEgo> 6374:2015-12-11 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn imaginary unit/The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love
15:23:20 <oerjan> sounds like a surreal number
15:30:04 <oerjan> fizzie: i thought i already hinted to you that the wiki bridge might be down, although admittedly that was _before_ anyone had made new edits...
15:30:33 <oerjan> (and possibly before it actually went down, then)
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15:35:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xkcdwhatiflist: not found
15:36:24 <oerjan> i guess it's 154, the number is a bit awkward to get to.
15:36:52 <oerjan> `makelist xkcdwhatiflist oerjan b_jonas
15:36:54 <HackEgo> makelistlist xkcdwhatiflist oerjan b_jonas: shachaf
15:37:36 <oerjan> `` makelist xkcdwhatiflist oerjan b_jonas
15:37:38 <HackEgo> makelistlist xkcdwhatiflist: shachaf
15:38:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
15:38:23 <HackEgo> name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
15:39:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: I think it's mklist, not makelist
15:39:35 <oerjan> no, it's definitely makelist
15:39:38 <HackEgo> cat: bin/mklist: No such file or directory
15:39:57 <oerjan> i just didn't remember that adding names required ``
15:39:57 <b_jonas> oh right, makelist did work
15:40:07 <b_jonas> it even triggered the makelistlist
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15:45:56 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
15:46:42 <HackEgo> list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun!
15:46:53 <oerjan> b_jonas: i was actually just looking at the code to copy it
15:46:55 <HackEgo> quintopïa Zarutiän jeffl3̈5 BlueProtomän fizzïe hppavilion[1̈] Phantom_Hoovër int-̈e b_jonäs boil̈y a`a`a`a`jo7äs a`a`a`a`jo8äs a`a`a`a`jo3äs a`a`a`a`jo6äs a`a`a`a`jo5äs a`a`a`a`jo4äs a`a`a`a`jo2äs a`a`a`a`jo1äs a`a`a`a`jonas̈0 a`a`a`̈a lambdaböt chicken_jonäs mynam̈e
15:48:37 <oerjan> `sled bin/makelist//s,^,if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi;,
15:48:39 <HackEgo> bin/makelist//if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi;name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
15:48:56 <oerjan> `makelist makelisttest hi ho
15:48:58 <HackEgo> makelistlist makelisttest: shachaf
15:49:33 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ set -e \ export LANG=C \ cd /hackenv/bin;exec ls -dF *[lL]ist*
15:50:11 <HackEgo> cat: bin/listlistlist: No such file or directory
15:50:18 <HackEgo> cat: bin/makelistlistlist: No such file or directory
15:52:00 <oerjan> `sled bin/makelist//s,fi;,& ,
15:52:02 <HackEgo> bin/makelist//if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi; name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
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15:54:24 <oerjan> i figure spaces in list names are useless anyway
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16:01:11 <oerjan> . o O ( hm should i have used && )
16:03:03 <int-e> `` echo 'I should have used &&. ' | sed 's/.*/&&/'
16:03:04 <HackEgo> I should have used &&. I should have used &&.
16:03:48 <oerjan> . o O ( now make it a quine )
16:05:17 <oerjan> indeed, if i had i'd probably have made error.
16:05:40 <oerjan> why do the words exist in my head bu not my fingers
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16:17:40 <oerjan> . o O ( shouldn't "at those low temperatures" be "at those low pressures" in the latest whatif )
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16:22:34 <int-e> `` sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'"
16:22:35 <HackEgo> sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\x22&\x22/'"
16:23:27 * oerjan wasn't actually expecting you to do it, but then this _is_ #esoteric
16:24:30 <int-e> (it's kind of cheating because it's relying on both bash and sed to do some of the work... but I'm not feeling bad about that)
16:25:09 <HackEgo> c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ q2 \ ruby \ slashes
16:25:11 <int-e> `` sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:25:11 <HackEgo> sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:25:18 <int-e> 42 is nicer than 0x22 ;-)
16:26:20 <oerjan> `mkx quines/sed&bash//sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:26:32 <HackEgo> sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'<<<"sed -e$'s/.*/&<<<\42&\42/'"
16:27:32 <b_jonas> we have a quines directory? I have a few quines I wrote. many in perl or J, a few in C, two or three in sqlite, a few in other languages
16:27:34 <Taneb> How does that work?
16:28:13 <oerjan> `le/rn mk//`mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
16:28:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'mk': `mk[x] FILE//CONTENT is a nice way to create a single line file with a single irc command. x makes it executable.
16:28:24 <b_jonas> Taneb: in sed s command, and ampersand in the substitution text is replaced by the whole match of the regex
16:29:31 <b_jonas> oerjan: nice quine by the way
16:30:31 <HackEgo> main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="
16:31:05 <int-e> (this has the same basic structure to my mind)
16:33:06 <b_jonas> I should collect all my quines somewhere, because currently I'm keeping them all around various wobsites and mailing lists and stuff, and keep having to search for them
16:35:11 <b_jonas> shachaf, oerjan: the languages in the two entries I recently added to the esowiki, do they count as esoteric on topic stuff?
16:35:30 <b_jonas> (I don't care if they count as languages, because the esowiki has non-language articles too. I'm asking if they're esoteric.)
16:36:16 <oerjan> i think they count as background articles, at least
16:38:38 <b_jonas> There are about ten more languages I should write about, listed on my user page, but I'm lazy.
16:39:16 <oerjan> . o O ( what's polyunsaturated )
16:42:51 <b_jonas> oerjan: the original TAOCP advertises MIX with the tagline that it's "the world's first polyunsaturated computer", which is supposed to be a parody of margarine advertisments at that time,
16:43:29 <b_jonas> and that's a good guess, because even after 50 years, margarine is sometimes advertised by how it has unsaturated fats, which is healthy for your heart or something,
16:43:39 <b_jonas> except these days they also say it has trans fats.
16:44:08 <b_jonas> And the descriptions of MMIX by Knuth play on this.
16:44:48 <oerjan> i knew the fat meaning, but didn't understand it was a joke
16:45:36 <b_jonas> I don't know if there's a hidden meaning about computer architecture, I don't think there is
16:45:59 <oerjan> seems the xkcd forum is already all over the temperature/pressure mistake
16:46:42 <b_jonas> oerjan: wait, there's a second new xkcdwhatif? nobody told me
16:47:03 <oerjan> b_jonas: what did you think my makelist noise above was about :P
16:47:30 <oerjan> admittedly you weren't pinged by the original, because the list didn't exist yet
16:47:40 <HackEgo> xkcdwhatiflist 154: oerjan b_jonas
16:48:00 <int-e> oh, have whatifs gone irregular?
16:48:05 <Taneb> oerjan, can you add me to that list please
16:48:12 <oerjan> int-e: they have been irregular a long time
16:48:21 <b_jonas> oerjan: I did say `xkcdwhatiflist 153 back then. even if the program doesn't exist, someone might have set a watch/highlight on ^`xkcdwhatiflist in the channel directly
16:48:27 <b_jonas> int-e: had a really long hiatus
16:48:29 <int-e> I have not followed xkcdwhatif updates in a long time
16:48:35 <oerjan> `sled bin/xkcdwhatiflist//$aTaneb
16:48:37 <HackEgo> bin/xkcdwhatiflist//echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ oerjan \ b_jonas \ Taneb
16:48:45 <b_jonas> oerjan: so I assumed you made the list because of 153
16:48:48 <oerjan> i guess i shouldn't use that
16:48:57 <int-e> oerjan: isn't there some canned command for that?
16:49:06 <HackEgo> bin/addquote bin/addscowrevs bin/addtodo
16:49:13 <oerjan> int-e: i've forgotten if so :P
16:49:14 <HackEgo> bin/list bin/listen bin/listlist
16:49:32 <oerjan> i think people usually just use echo >>
16:49:43 <b_jonas> yeah, echo >>foolist is the usual method
16:49:45 <oerjan> i wanted to be clever but that pings
16:50:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: that: not found
16:51:02 <b_jonas> by the way, if you accept https://www.xkcd.com/397/ which says that Mythbusters is sloppy with its actual science, but still valuable because they teach the basic principle of experiments,
16:51:28 <b_jonas> then the logical conclusion is that xkcdwhatif is completely worthless, since it is sloppy with its actual science and doesn't do experiments at all
16:52:32 <Taneb> b_jonas, it creates excitement about science
16:52:53 <quintopia> its not worthless. it is a good basic primer in fermi estimation
16:53:04 <b_jonas> yeah, I know it's not worthless
16:53:37 <Taneb> quintopia, I believe 397 is correct but incomplete
16:53:47 <oerjan> b_jonas: i did indeed see your `xkcdwhatiflist 153. although i had already seen the whatif itself, since i usually check it on fridays.
16:53:49 <b_jonas> it's certainly much better than the unresearched fast media articles that http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174 describes,
16:53:56 <b_jonas> but that's what you'd think from xkcd 397
16:54:21 <b_jonas> oerjan: on fridays? but it used to be posted on wednesdays originally, when it was regular
16:54:59 <b_jonas> the main xkcd is sort of still regular: it is posted on almost every monday, wednesday, friday, but is often late
16:55:08 <Taneb> I still need to make the article about COMPLEX not a stub
16:55:21 <b_jonas> so it looks more like it's posted tuesday, thursday, saturday and backdated these days
16:55:27 <Taneb> Irregular Webcomic updated an hour late yesterday!
16:55:51 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me, esowiki question:
16:56:15 <b_jonas> if I want to create an article for Knuth's MIX too, what should its title be, or what should the existing [[MIX]] get renamed?
16:56:56 <b_jonas> Taneb: but isn't Knuth's the one that deserves the unparenthisized title?
16:57:11 <quintopia> that is the way we usually handle this taneb
16:57:24 <Taneb> b_jonas, background information is less important than an actual esolang
16:57:27 <quintopia> b_jonas: both should be parenthesized
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16:57:51 <Taneb> Alternatively, merge it into the article on MMIX, and move that to MIX and MMIX
16:58:05 <quintopia> see e.g. Clue (Keymaker) and Clue (Oklopol)
16:58:17 <b_jonas> Taneb: I think MIX and MMIX are an actual esolang, since they are intended for purposes other than writing production programs in them
16:58:46 <oerjan> Taneb: did you notice that iwc (and also postcard) updated _twice_ on wednesday?
16:58:46 <b_jonas> as opposed to perl, which has a much uglier designed, but was always intended for real uses
16:59:03 <Taneb> b_jonas, then are Scratch and BASIC esolangs also, as they are designed for education like MMIX
16:59:07 <Taneb> oerjan, I did not!
16:59:14 <Taneb> oerjan, most irregular
16:59:30 <b_jonas> Taneb: I don't think merging MIX and MMIX would be a good idea, they're so different (that's why there was a need for a new system in first place)
16:59:40 <Taneb> That is a good point
16:59:49 <oerjan> b_jonas: i do it on fridays out of habit because when i checked it on wednesdays it was often too early
17:00:00 <b_jonas> Taneb: I think BASIC wasn't only intended for education, but because they could implement it in very small microcomputers with small RAM
17:00:26 <b_jonas> I don't know about Scratch or Logo stuff
17:00:59 <rdococ> wait, scratch _esolangs_?
17:01:35 <quintopia> oerjan: way inbon the wiki naming issue please
17:01:40 <b_jonas> oerjan: what? twice? no way
17:01:46 <rdococ> a (derivative of (a programming language designed to teach children how to program without the issues of syntax)) intentionally designed to be >esoteric<?
17:01:58 <rdococ> did I read that right?
17:02:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: wow indeed, it did post two reruns. I didn't notice
17:02:46 <b_jonas> I totally missed the first one
17:04:25 <oerjan> Taneb: fortunately, i obsessively always load the previous comic to check if i've missed one :P
17:05:01 <oerjan> (although that gets a bit intertwined with the separate new/rerun threads)
17:05:53 <b_jonas> oerjan: sometimes I do that, but I still think I missed some normal updates occasionally
17:06:47 <b_jonas> also, you'd think people would point out the double update on the forums
17:07:40 * b_jonas checks the alternate universe Darths & Droids strips -- no, they didn't also give an update to those to replace the missing update
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17:08:39 <oerjan> <b_jonas> I totally missed the first one <-- perhaps you should make the forum thread for it, others may have missed it too (unless someone did since last i looked)
17:09:55 <b_jonas> oerjan: so is the flame about temperature vs perssure about in 154 the phrase "ice isn't even stable at those low temperatures", or is it about the inaccuracies in 153 of the asymptotics when the hole is deep?
17:14:35 <oerjan> b_jonas: postcard also updated twice. i don't quite remember about sromg.
17:14:53 <oerjan> oh i think dinosaur whiteboard did too
17:15:08 <b_jonas> oerjan: I don't follow postcard, and I'm quite sure planet didn't double-post
17:15:32 <oerjan> yeah, the weekly ones didn't.
17:15:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: can you feedback about [[MIX]] naming?
17:15:53 <oerjan> i think knuth's MIX shouldn't get the main name.
17:16:36 <oerjan> b_jonas: it's not a flame, but it's the ice thing
17:16:46 <oerjan> (i haven't checked the other thread)
17:16:49 <b_jonas> oerjan: ok, what then? [[MIX]] disambig page?
17:17:19 <b_jonas> ([[x86]], [[GHC]], [[GCC]] have a non-eso and an eso meaning, that's different)
17:19:14 <oerjan> i'm not very firm on whether to use disambig page or hatnote.
17:21:28 <b_jonas> I should try to do slippery slope on this, by making a new esoteric language named Intercal, refuse to call it any other name, and demand that it gets the [[Intercal]] title because it's clearly more esoteric than Intercal
17:22:36 <b_jonas> oh, I should do it with Brainfuck instead
17:32:38 <rdococ> just don't make it a derivative
17:37:29 <b_jonas> of course not. that would defeat the point
17:38:16 <b_jonas> I hate the brainfuck derivatives, and there's an idea for an esolang I had wanted to make for a while, but the most elegant way I could make it is to make it a brainfuck variant, and I don't want that.
17:38:41 <zzo38> I think a disambiguation page could be good idea
17:38:45 <b_jonas> I should probably just make it an underload variant.
17:40:11 <oerjan> b_jonas: pretty sure you posted that in the wrong thread hth
17:40:19 <zzo38> I alto think that on the article for MMIX they should also be added the list of the instruction set.
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17:40:48 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah. there wasn't a suitable one
17:41:15 <b_jonas> oerjan: it's a feature, not a bug
17:41:36 <b_jonas> also, posts in the Bugs thread tend to get deleted when DMM fixes the bug
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17:41:54 <zzo38> If you want to make a new esoteric language named Intercal that gets the [[Intercal]] title, I think that should be fine as long as it also contains a link at the top to [[INTERCAL]] in case that is what you were looking for instead.
17:42:04 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't understand what you say about MMIX and instruction set
17:42:37 <zzo38> b_jonas: I mean the table of the instructions should be included.
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17:43:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: I could add one but why?
17:44:28 <zzo38> To have more completion.
17:45:01 <b_jonas> at some point we should synchronize http://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Languages , there are languages on one but not the other both ways, plus we should use the other categories to find all languages that are on neither
17:47:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: feel free to edit the article if you want such a table
17:55:10 <HackEgo> cat: bin/```: No such file or directory
17:55:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
17:55:40 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M
17:55:45 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48StcaCMtsg
17:56:00 <shachaf> `mkx bin/13//\` "$@" |& rot13
17:58:16 <HackEgo> cat: bin/commandlist: No such file or directory
17:59:00 <zzo38> I also think that implementation of Checkout for use with GPU should be made up and that standard names for exponents and trigonometry should also be added.
17:59:09 <HackEgo> /unpxrai/ova/`: yvar 4: 10: pbzznaq abg sbhaq
18:00:52 <\oren\> hehe the eror mesage was rot13d
18:00:55 <zzo38> And then to hope to be able to use it instead of ARB assembly and GLSL and so on.
18:01:38 <\oren\> i think the first step to speling reform should be to eliminate useles duplicate leters
18:02:53 <oerjan> it's really quite amazing how close rot13 gets to a hypothetically pronounceable language given it preserves no vowels
18:02:58 <zzo38> A preprocessor for Checkout will be needed in order to do it.
18:04:32 <zzo38> I would think that it would also mean you do not need a separate vertex program and fragment program, and perhaps some other stuff in OpenGL also then you won't need anymore.
18:04:42 <b_jonas> Obfuscated programming questions. You know how buddy-blocked (twin) memory allocator pool work, right? All allocated and free blocks are aligned power of two gross sized, free blocks of each size are listed, two free slots get combined if they are the same size and would form an aligned block of one larger size,
18:05:09 <b_jonas> allocation tries to get a block from the free list of the right size, if that fails, allocates a block one larger and frees half of it.
18:05:23 <b_jonas> Questoin: is there a fibonacci (rather than binary) version of this?
18:05:31 <b_jonas> How hard would it be to implement one?
18:06:25 <quintopia> ive never heard of it, but ive implemented something roughly ewuivalent
18:06:32 <zzo38> b_jonas: I don't know
18:06:53 <b_jonas> quintopia: um, you've implemented the binary or the fibonacci one?
18:07:08 <b_jonas> many people know about the binary from Knuth's book
18:07:13 <\oren\> I once tried to make a fibonacci heapsort but i failed for some reason I can't recall
18:07:17 <b_jonas> but it's not very popular for some reason
18:07:56 <quintopia> ive implemented a discrete fibonacci search, which involves dividing a range of integers into blocks of fibonacci size
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18:08:10 <b_jonas> \oren\: that might make sense, since there are quaternary heaps that are like binary heaps but with four children, and you could have ternary heaps and ternary triplet-buddy-block allocators.
18:08:20 <quintopia> transforming it into an allocation scheme seems not too difficult
18:08:44 <b_jonas> quintopia: I think it would involve the Zeckendorf representation of the addresses
18:09:14 <quintopia> that would certainly speed up indexing
18:09:37 <b_jonas> if you want speed, just use the binary version
18:09:48 <b_jonas> the fibonacci version isn't really better
18:10:41 <quintopia> im comparing to fibonacci without zeckendorf
18:12:30 <b_jonas> Other question. You know the xor-coded list trick, right? Take a cyclic doubly linked list, but have nodes store only one pointer, whose value is the xor of the addresses of the previous and next nodes. List head and other iterators have two pointers to adjacent nodes.
18:12:49 <b_jonas> That can work for trees rather than lists too: there, iterators have to store the parent.
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18:14:25 <b_jonas> So my question is, can xor-coding be used to make a garbage collector that avoids having to store a long stack of pointers when it marks a deep list of nodes? If such a gc is possible, then what properties of the gc is it compatible with? (Stop the world vs incremental, generational moving vs stationary, etc.)
18:15:31 <b_jonas> These are both eso in that even if they're possible, they're stupid tricks that won't be worth the debugging in the end when something goes wrong.
18:17:25 <\oren\> You know, it would be nice to have a version of qsort() that rather than taking a comparator function, takes a offset to a sort key
18:20:10 <\oren\> that way you wouldn't have to make a separate function for each struct that needs sorting
18:21:11 <\oren\> it would just be keysort(A,&A[0].key-&A[0],N); or smething
18:21:21 <b_jonas> \oren\: how would it know the type of the comparator key?
18:21:26 <b_jonas> also, use offsetof for that
18:21:54 <\oren\> b_jonas: maybe there would need to be different ones
18:22:19 <\oren\> keysort, keysortl, keysortll, keysortf, keysortd etc
18:22:40 <b_jonas> \oren\: one for each type of key. especially for little-endian architectures if you prefer to have the more significant sort key at the lower offset but the more significant byte within it at the higher offset.
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18:23:35 <\oren\> either that or some sort of configuration paramater
18:24:28 <b_jonas> hmm, like a 64-byte shuffle key? could work
18:25:56 <b_jonas> shuffle key as in, for each of the 64 bytes of space in the real conceptual little-endian key, the shuffle key has a byte that is either 0..63 to tell which of the 64 bytes starting from the key offset you take, or 255 to mean that byte of the real key is zero.
18:26:13 <b_jonas> (and in that case, the key offset might be fixed to zero)
18:26:34 <b_jonas> though that wouldn't solve sorting by float keys, which is a real need
18:27:05 <\oren\> yeah, I was mostly thinking of the case where there's only one key and it's of a common C type
18:27:22 <b_jonas> float is a common C type, right?
18:27:30 <b_jonas> yeah, you mentioned keysortf
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18:28:37 <\oren\> b_jonas: right. so you would just have keysortf(char *A,size_t off,size_t member_len,size_t array_len);
18:30:52 <\oren\> it basically seems like a waste to have all these calls to somestruct_compare(struct some *a,struct some *b){return a.key - b.key;}
18:31:39 <\oren\> which might be optimized out, but even so, why have the function at all
18:35:41 <oerjan> it's all a mess just because C doesn't have proper closures hth
18:39:45 <\oren\> oerjan: C is low-level and I like it that way
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18:46:42 <b_jonas> TAOCP has a special place in my heart, not only because it's a good book, but because I think it was a large part of what got me interested in programming when I was young
18:46:55 <b_jonas> it's hard to tell how much effect it really had, but it certainly mattered
18:47:37 <b_jonas> I wonder what sort of celebrating party we should organize when the final and glorious edition of volume 3 is published.
18:48:21 <b_jonas> (yes, obviously those aren't independent. TAOCP had a big effect on me as a child BECAUSE it's a good book. it was the most interesting book in the entire school library.)
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19:08:43 <b_jonas> Is there a betting pool somewhere for how many subvolumes volume 4 will have?
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19:17:45 <b_jonas> Oh, and question about MMIX. Is "the infamous MMIX register shuffle" an old name? Or is it still used?
19:18:06 <b_jonas> I wasn't sure when I wrote the article.
19:18:15 <b_jonas> Also, how large is the physical memory space?
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20:00:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50897&oldid=50870 * Boxalert * (+192)
20:01:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ternary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50898 * Boxalert * (+1348) Created page with "'''Ternary''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[zerosum0x0]] in 2015. It consists only of the ASCII characters 0, 1, and 2. It is a member of the TrivialB..."
20:02:55 <rdococ> what's the use of a brainfuck substitution?
20:04:26 <rdococ> TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution("asdasd","ddas","dddd","asdad","saa","calaa","saddas","dsadas") and I have just created another "esolang"
20:07:24 <myname> it's basically a less funny version of ook
20:09:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50899&oldid=43462 * Rdococ * (+436) /* I deleted the count. */
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21:14:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BitCycle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50900 * Dlosc * (+6800) Creating BitCycle page
21:16:05 <zzo38> Currently in my program SDLTERM the only support for text is 8x8 PC character set, but I should later also add support for font upload with custom variable-pitch bitmap fonts, with 16-bit characters and ligatures and kerning. (The ligature capability can be used for such thing as "fi" ligature, but can also be used for making Unicode fonts, by ligaturing together the surrogate pairs.)
21:16:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50901&oldid=50896 * Dlosc * (+15) Added BitCycle
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21:17:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ouroboros]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50902&oldid=49895 * Dlosc * (+100)
21:20:00 <zzo38> Therefore, it can be useful if you want to do such thing as displaying Japanese texts, and can possibly even write in Arabic.
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21:26:44 <zzo38> (It isn't limited to Unicode, either; in fact it does not even do Unicode, but it can be implemented by use of ligatures.)
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21:32:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Dlosc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50903 * Dlosc * (+398) Created page with "I am a hobbyist programmer who was introduced to esolangs through [http://codegolf.stackexchange.com PPCG StackExchange]. My esolangs include: * [[Pip]]: a fairly sane code-g..."
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21:47:52 <\oren\> Maybe I should just go to germany
21:51:21 <\oren\> if I went to germany I would be able to respond to these 2 AM emails
21:56:13 <\oren\> well I mean either they're in poland or germant
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23:10:01 <wob_jonas> oerjan: who, new twist. in http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?p=161792#161792 , DMM says the double update was an accidental bug
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23:41:06 <oerjan> b_jonas: it's not a twist if it's what you expect hth
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23:43:58 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas it's not a twist if it's what you expect hth
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23:52:27 <oerjan> well they might not have let you back in. i hear that's all the rage.
23:53:01 <fizzie> I haven't been out lately.
23:53:23 <fizzie> One of our meeting rooms is called "court", I was tempted to book a meeting there so I could've said to someone SEE YOU IN COURT.
23:53:55 <oerjan> chances that you're the first to do so are ...
23:54:21 <fizzie> All the rooms on the third floor are named after "things that sound strange in the sentence '(we have a meeting) in X'", like court, hell, denial, sane, jail, "my office", "your office" and so on.
23:54:42 <fizzie> The two offices are particularly hard to find, it isn't rare to find someone asking "where's my office?"
23:55:07 * oerjan swats fizzie on principle -----###
23:57:17 <oerjan> . o O ( five minutes, the pub )
23:57:17 <shachaf> Ah, public Google Maps doesn't show individual room names there.
23:57:21 <shachaf> It does for some buildings in MTV.
23:58:10 <fizzie> shachaf: It does for UK-LON-BEL as well.
23:58:24 <fizzie> shachaf: It just opened last year, probably no-one just thought of doing it.
23:59:27 <shachaf> Your meeting room naming scheme sounds much better than any of the buildings I was in.
23:59:52 <fizzie> There's nothing that funny about BEL meeting rooms, though, they're just famous computer scientists (3rd floor) or actual old computers (4th floor).