←2017-03-22 2017-03-23 2017-03-24→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:32:42 <boily> `wisdom
00:32:44 <HackEgo> tautology//A tautology is a tautology. Oren invented them.
00:35:22 <shachaf> `5 w
00:35:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:kayayaya//Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya. Ka-ya-ya-ya-ya. \ augur//augur took no cakes, but he's a linguist. \ pumping lemma//noooooodl's pumping lemma for wisdom entries states that for any sufficiently long valid wisdom entry, there exists a letter that can be repeated any number of times. \ latin//LATINA EST SVBLIMISSIMA
00:35:30 <shachaf> `n
00:35:31 <HackEgo> 2/2:LINGVA MVNDI \ bardsworthlist//bardsworthlist is update notification for the Bardsworth webcomic. http://www.bardsworth.com/
00:35:32 <boily> \oren\: he\\oren\. could you please add 蜂?
00:35:41 <augur> this is true
00:35:43 <augur> i took no cakes
00:35:51 <shachaf> `? pumping lemma
00:35:52 <HackEgo> nooooooooodl's pumping lemma for wisdom entries states that for any sufficiently long valid wisdom entry, there exists a letter that can be repeated any number of times.
00:37:06 <shachaf> fizzie: I was going to get a .fi domain that expired a month ago and had "available:" date today.
00:37:12 <shachaf> But someone else got it first. :-(
00:37:50 <shachaf> It was vh.fi
00:38:03 <oerjan> . o O ( robot domain traders )
00:38:14 <shachaf> Until a few seconds ago I thought it was renewed by the person who had it before.
00:38:47 <shachaf> But now I see it was registered by someone else.
00:38:55 <shachaf> scow
00:38:58 <shachaf> I should've gotten it.
00:40:11 <boily> why do you want that domain in particular?
00:41:18 <shachaf> It's pretty good, isn't it?
00:41:59 * boily fails to link "shachaf" and "vh" together
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01:01:59 <Jafet> high-frequency domain trading?
01:28:44 <boily> `wisdom
01:28:45 <HackEgo> prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
01:28:53 * boily misses metasepia
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02:40:33 <zgrepc> ^help
02:40:33 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
02:40:36 <zgrepc> Huh.
02:40:41 <zgrepc> !help
02:40:41 <zemhill___> zgrepc: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
02:40:44 <zgrepc> o.o
02:40:52 <zgrepc> ( help
02:40:52 <idris-bot> No such variable help
02:40:55 <zgrepc> I see.
02:41:01 <zgrepc> +help
02:43:30 <zgrepc> Hm. I'd try out bfjoust, but it seems that at the moment, I'm unable to comprehend ideas.
02:57:16 <oerjan> ( :help
02:57:17 <idris-bot> Command "help" not permitted.
03:19:22 <zgrepc> ) help
03:19:32 <zgrepc> ~help
03:19:36 <zgrepc> ~ help
03:19:37 <zgrepc> ~~
03:19:58 <zgrepc> ^python3 print('What does fungot do?')
03:20:15 <zgrepc> Oh, I see.
03:20:42 <zgrepc> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
03:20:42 <fungot> 1
03:21:12 <zgrepc> :t transverse
03:21:14 <lambdabot> error:
03:21:14 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: transverse
03:21:14 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
03:21:23 <zgrepc> I guess that wisdom should be updated.
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03:35:21 <oerjan> which wisdom
03:35:39 <oerjan> oh that
03:36:33 <oerjan> [ 1
03:36:34 <ffj-bot> oerjan: 1
04:03:52 <Sgeo> Well, I was incredibly specific in crediting #esoteric with finding a bug 7 years ago
04:04:22 <Sgeo> "items[i] = items[i + i]; // This line drove me bonkers (it's supposed to be i + 1). Thanks to pound-esoteric peeps for finding it!
04:04:22 <Sgeo> "
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04:08:47 <shachaf> £esoteric
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04:29:31 <hppavilion[1]> Proposition: Truth is beauty
04:31:14 <hppavilion[1]> (Annals of the Fine Arts #15 under Ode on a Grecian Urn; John Keats et al., 1989)
04:36:17 <hppavilion[1]> Proposition: Some truths are inconvenient (Proof: Entire planet; proof by construction; Everyone, ~1760-present; First publication: Gore 2006)
04:36:33 <hppavilion[1]> Conclusion: Beautiful things are sometimes inconvenient.
04:36:41 <hppavilion[1]> [in retrospect, this was kind of obvious]
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06:28:13 <hppavilion[1]> My dad works in a hospital laboratory, which results in really strange fatherly advice
06:28:28 <hppavilion[1]> exempli gratia "You can treat a transfusion reaction; you can't treat death."
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09:08:00 <shachaf> Taneb: Trains have roots? Are they functions?
09:09:46 <Taneb> shachaf, nah, plants
09:16:31 <shachaf> Oh, I didn't realize you mistyped.
09:16:38 <shachaf> I thought it was a fancy trains word I didn't know.
09:17:00 <shachaf> Like a central station or a backbone route or something.
09:17:25 <Taneb> I tend to think phonetically
09:17:34 <Taneb> So I often mistype homophones
09:17:43 <shachaf> I think maybe I'd've pronounced it like "out".
09:17:48 <shachaf> But actually I have no idea.
09:21:55 <shachaf> Is there a word for "the thing in parentheses"?
09:22:38 <shachaf> You might make some statement and then clarify it in parentheses (like this, but in a way that changes the meaning of the sentence somewhat).
09:22:46 <shachaf> Is there a word for it?
09:25:18 <Taneb> Parenthetical?
09:25:30 <shachaf> Maybe.
09:25:49 <Taneb> And yeah, route sounding like root is a British thing
09:25:49 <shachaf> "That's exactly the method," the Bellman bold
09:25:50 <shachaf> In a hasty parenthesis cried,
09:25:50 <shachaf> "That's exactly the way I have always been told
09:25:51 <shachaf> That the capture of Snarks should be tried!")
09:26:16 <Taneb> I know the US and Australia pronounce it to rhyme with out
09:26:23 <shachaf> I looked it up, and apparently it's complicated in the US, varying by whether it's referred to as a noun or verb.
09:26:46 <shachaf> But I'm a simple English speaker who doesn't understand subtle distinctions.
09:28:24 <Taneb> +
09:28:55 <Taneb> Dog on keyboard sorry
09:32:52 <shachaf> Nathan van Doog
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10:38:21 <boily> @metar CYUL
10:38:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 231000Z 28009KT 15SM BKN095 M10/M20 A3049 RMK AC6 SLP329
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11:16:37 <b_jonas_> I just got phishing spam in the name of a bank where I don't even have an account or anything.
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11:17:56 <b_jonas> Taneb: isn't the trick with "route" is that "router" is pronounced differently by informaticians (when it means an electronic device that sends network packets in the right direction) and woodworkers (where it means some sort of power tool)?
11:18:22 <b_jonas> shachaf: ^
11:18:42 <b_jonas> shachaf: "Is there a word for "the thing in parentheses"?" => a remark
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11:26:19 <Taneb> b_jonas, I don't know, but I do pronounce the electronic device meaning different to my Australian cousin
11:33:24 <b_jonas> Taneb: that's also possible
11:33:38 <b_jonas> I don't know
11:34:01 <b_jonas> I'm really puzzled by why the computer and the woodworking meaning have different pronunciations though
11:35:07 <b_jonas> ah! apparently the woodworking meaning doesn't derive from "route", but from a more obscure English word "rout", which is why the pronunciations differ
11:37:12 <b_jonas> and apparently "route" (and the computer "router") is pronounced as /ru:t/ or /raUt/ depending on dialect, whereas "router" in woodworking is always /raUt/, and "root" (of a plant) is always /ru:t/.
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12:59:46 <lynn> shachaf: Surprisingly, "a parenthesis": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parenthesis
13:00:19 <lynn> oh, that came up later
13:00:55 <lynn> it's so confusing though? I didn't know until I looked it up just now. apparently parentheses are statements delemited by parentheses #whoa
13:23:09 <b_jonas> How come there's no living weapon that gives infect?
13:54:57 <b_jonas> wait.... phased out is a status now?
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15:50:33 <rdococ> raUt or ræUt?
15:51:21 <rdococ> I've always pronounced it /ræUtə/
15:51:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51389&oldid=47341 * Qwertyu63 * (+60) Cleanup and Expansion
15:51:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51390&oldid=51389 * Qwertyu63 * (+6)
15:52:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51391&oldid=51390 * Qwertyu63 * (+14)
15:54:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51392 * Rdococ * (+141) /* 12 or 24 variables? */ new section
15:54:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Qwertyu63 * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Emoji-gramming.png]]": Replaced two icons with better ones; added another 12 variables to use.
15:57:19 <\oren\> hmm.... [^-^] is a funny regex
15:57:40 <b_jonas> rdococ: /r{Ut@/? seriously? that's strange
15:58:26 <rdococ> like <mouth>
15:58:32 <rdococ> <router>
15:59:12 <\oren\> router pouter doubter
15:59:36 <rdococ> ye
16:02:04 <rdococ> what is a fish's favourite video game?
16:02:18 <rdococ> cod. no wonder so many people eat fish :/
16:06:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51394&oldid=51392 * Qwertyu63 * (+193) /* 12 or 24 variables? */
16:06:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Emoji-gramming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51395&oldid=51394 * Qwertyu63 * (+0)
16:08:17 <rdococ> My cache doesn't usually give me any problems...
16:08:25 <rdococ> also it does say 24 now
16:12:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51396&oldid=47286 * Qwertyu63 * (-1780) Replaced content with "Writer and implementer of [[Stack Up]]. Writer of [[Set]]."
16:12:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51397&oldid=51396 * Qwertyu63 * (+19)
16:20:42 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/pronounceable_cee.c.htm
16:20:46 <\oren\> what do you think of this
16:24:34 <b_jonas> \oren\: seriously? big copy-pasted cascade of else-if bodies, all alike? are you trying to program like a youngster who doesn't understand why copy-paste code is bad and how you can use functions and tables and other structured programming practices to avoid it?
16:26:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, the part where you write { if(context == CODE) stmt0 if (context == STRING) stmt1 } is a bit distracting. are those supposed to be the only options? if so, why not just put an else instead of a second if?
16:26:23 <b_jonas> but the heavy copy-paste code bothers me more
16:28:25 <\oren\> you can't use switch case here because they keys are strings
16:28:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: sure, I know
16:29:30 <\oren\> if it was VB obviously I would use swich case, but C is limited
16:30:36 <shachaf> I don't think b_jonas was suggesting switch
16:30:36 <Jafet> <b_jonas> seriously? — well, I doubt it
16:30:46 <\oren\> the reason why you need the code and string part is that I want
16:30:53 <\oren\> int main paren
16:31:06 <\oren\> to be int main( with a space after int
16:31:15 <\oren\> but inside a string there's no need
16:32:44 <shachaf> the traditional phrase is "do you like this?", not "what do you think of this"
16:32:44 <shachaf> hth
16:33:09 <\oren\> also quote oren space said space quote hello quote unquote
16:33:17 <b_jonas> shachaf: I thought the traditional phrase is "RFC"
16:33:26 <\oren\> will eb "oren said \"hello\""
16:35:27 <Jafet> b_jonas: that's old hat, the important thing these days is the like
16:35:34 <\oren\> hmm but
16:35:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: how do you write mixed case identifiers, such as _Exit, _Complex?
16:36:04 <\oren\> underscore capital e x i t
16:36:12 <b_jonas> ah!
16:36:12 <b_jonas> tricky
16:36:55 <\oren\> most words don't insert an autospace, it only applies to things that typically have an identifier after them
16:36:57 <rdococ> and you can't use <g>, you have to replace it with <the letter jee>
16:37:22 <\oren\> such as float, double, int, etc
16:37:29 <\oren\> also else
16:37:46 <rdococ> also, you can't use numeral digits
16:37:50 <rdococ> so you have to do:
16:38:00 <rdococ> int x equals three semicolon
16:38:10 <\oren\> rdococ: correct
16:38:38 <rdococ> backslash oren backslash colon space correct
16:38:47 <\oren\> ideally I'd like it to support three hundred instead of three zero zero but for now...
16:38:52 <Jafet> at this point we might observe that none of C's keywords are NATO phonetic letters
16:39:24 <rdococ> so we need a dialect of C where all keywords are NATO phonetic letters
16:39:43 <rdococ> well, or greek letters.
16:40:14 <rdococ> unless that letter is a consonant
16:41:32 <b_jonas> Jafet: like char lie?
16:42:17 <\oren\> hmm I guess it would be more efficient to use a sorted table and bsearch
16:43:08 <\oren\> for anything that doesn't have special behaviour at any rate
16:44:01 <b_jonas> \oren\: technically, "goto" is also usually followed by an identifier
16:45:39 <\oren\> true
16:46:15 <\oren\> I'll use a table of name->symbol mappings and another table of just words that need a space
16:47:35 <b_jonas> (also "struct", "union", "enum", "auto", "static", "register", "extern", "volatile", "unsigned", and often "case" and "return" are too; but "include" is rarely followed by an identifer)
16:48:51 <b_jonas> (wait, is "volatile" one of the original edition keywords?)
16:48:59 <b_jonas> (I don't remember the history)
16:50:55 <b_jonas> (meh, close enough, you have the c89 keywords "const" and "void" anyway)
16:51:19 <b_jonas> (though if you wanted all c89 keywords, then "signed" counts too)
16:54:30 <rdococ> ``unicode ´
16:54:31 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `unicode: not found
16:54:34 <rdococ> er
16:54:38 <rdococ> `unicode ´
16:54:39 <HackEgo> U+00B4 ACUTE ACCENT \ UTF-8: c2 b4 UTF-16BE: 00b4 Decimal: &#180; \ ´ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Decomposition: <compat> 0020 0301
16:55:10 <rdococ> `unicode '
16:55:11 <HackEgo> U+0027 APOSTROPHE \ UTF-8: 27 UTF-16BE: 0027 Decimal: &#39; \ ' \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
17:07:51 <\oren\> I've changed it to use a table, qsort, and bearch
17:15:00 <b_jonas> what was the url? ... http://orenwatson.be/pronounceable_cee.c.htm
17:16:02 <b_jonas> \oren\: that looks better, though you could also use a table (sorted or not) for the keywords
17:18:04 <shachaf> You could also improve it by using a readable typeface like Courier.
17:18:17 <\oren\> b_jonas: fixed that too now
17:18:46 <\oren\> shachaf: screw you, courier is crap and don't support all mai nice wingdings
17:19:37 <b_jonas> \oren\: how do you write an apostrophe? and I'm a bit worried about the magic double quote. it could make it too hard to use C++ style raw string literals, if they ever get accepted to C, or if you use this thing to write C++.
17:19:58 <\oren\> apostrophe
17:20:43 <b_jonas> ah! it is there, it's just that the symbols are in a strange orer
17:21:11 <b_jonas> though I think you have to dictate '"' as apostrophe backslash x two two apostrophe
17:21:29 <b_jonas> because apostrophe quote apostrophe won't work, nor will apostrophe unquote apostrophe
17:21:38 <\oren\> oh... yeah....
17:21:39 <\oren\> hmmm
17:23:04 <\oren\> maybe I'll just allow to use unquote
17:23:06 <b_jonas> and please don't add magic apostrophes in such a way that it makes it impossible to use C++-style 1'000 integer literals
17:23:30 <b_jonas> why does quote have to be special in that it's backspaced in first place?
17:23:37 <b_jonas> s/backspaced/backslashed
17:25:03 <\oren\> well i need to distinguish between autospaced and non-autospaced contexts right?
17:26:33 <\oren\> hmmm or, I suppose I could autospace always and you can suppress it with word
17:26:49 <b_jonas> \oren\: if you want that, then keep "quote" and "unquote" special in that they change to non-autospaced and autospaced context, but still make "quote" never emit a backslash
17:27:42 <\oren\> well... but c keywords rarely occur in strings anyway?
17:28:02 <\oren\> so jsut if you don't want a space after int you do word int
17:28:31 <b_jonas> \oren\: or just dictate it as i n t
17:28:52 <\oren\> right. there's no real need for cotext beyond word and capital
17:29:22 <b_jonas> and maybe make "oh" a synonym for "zero"
17:29:32 <b_jonas> no wait, that doesn't work
17:29:38 <b_jonas> because you guys pronounce "oh" the same as "o"
17:30:30 <\oren\> yes
17:31:34 <b_jonas> you need to type by letters anyway if you want to enter, say, int32_t
17:31:42 <b_jonas> to avoid the space after int
17:31:56 <b_jonas> i n t three two underscore t
17:37:21 <rdococ> letter i letter n letter t number three number two underscore letter t
17:39:50 <\oren\> rdococ: grumpy_cat_NO.jpg
17:58:52 <quintopia> b_jonas: well you could just add int32_t to your plover dictionary, then assign it a pronounceable stroke
17:59:16 <b_jonas> quintopia: huhwhat
17:59:21 <b_jonas> what's a plover, apart from a bird?
17:59:33 <quintopia> open source stenotype software
18:00:30 <shachaf> i,i four-leaf plover
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18:33:06 <shachaf> FireFly: The real question is what a corange is.
18:33:14 <shachaf> Is it a domain or a coimage?
18:36:37 <rdococ> Clearly, a corange is a function whose range is equal to its cofunction.
18:36:41 <rdococ> I think.
18:36:57 <b_jonas> a c-orange?
18:36:57 <rdococ> `? ffee
18:36:58 <HackEgo> ffee? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:37:03 <rdococ> `? fternooner
18:37:04 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
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18:41:36 <rdococ> hellopavilion[1]
18:41:54 <rdococ> hm.
18:42:02 <rdococ> what is a poration?
18:42:09 <rdococ> s/poration/rporation
18:42:36 <rdococ> we have conmen, but do we have nmen?
18:43:07 <rdococ> You can have a compound, but can you have an mpound?
18:47:07 <hppavilion[1]> In German Uno, you should replace the word "Uno" with a word from some other foreign language
18:49:17 <hppavilion[1]> I vote Ενας ≈ Enas ~/e'naːs/, from Greek.
18:49:32 <rdococ> "One"
18:50:29 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Duh.
19:13:26 <quintopia> do germans hate spaniards or something?
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19:39:06 <shapr> quintopia: send me a resume! do you have my email address?
19:48:37 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( LaTeX \pagenumbering{arabic} should have a variant \pagenumbering[base]{arabic} to number pages in bases other than 10 )
19:48:41 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-lud
19:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 7h 53m 4s ago: <hppavilion[1]> IS there even a way? <-- no hth
19:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 7h 52m 14s ago: however, you don't need the #! line for sh.
19:48:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 7h 22m 26s ago: also welcome.es is longer than most welcomes, there is simply no room for colors.
19:49:31 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan <oerjan (via lambdabot)> also welcome.es is longer than most welcomes, there is simply no room for colors. <-- Yeah, I figured that out
19:49:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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19:52:13 <rdococ> Spanish or Esperanto?
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19:54:26 <erkin> what's the difference
19:54:44 <erkin> (Esperanto is eo)
19:55:14 <rdococ> `welcome-es
19:55:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome-es: not found
19:55:19 <rdococ> `? welcome-es
19:55:20 <HackEgo> welcome-es? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:55:21 <rdococ> er
19:55:26 <rdococ> oh
19:55:29 <rdococ> `welcome.es
19:55:30 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.es: not found
19:55:33 <rdococ> `? welcome.es
19:55:34 <HackEgo> ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
19:55:41 <rdococ> `? welcome.en
19:55:42 <HackEgo> welcome.en? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:55:46 <rdococ> `? welcome
19:55:48 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
19:56:12 <rdococ> `? relcome.es
19:56:13 <HackEgo> relcome.es? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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20:10:15 <\oren\> `? welocome.en_CA
20:10:16 <HackEgo> welocome.en_CA? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:10:20 <\oren\> `? welcome.en_CA
20:10:21 <HackEgo> welcome.en_CA? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:10:33 <\oren\> `? welcome.de
20:10:34 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.)
20:10:45 <\oren\> `? welcome.po
20:10:46 <HackEgo> welcome.po? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:10:49 <\oren\> `? welcome.pl
20:10:50 <HackEgo> welcome.pl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:11:07 <\oren\> `? welcome.ru
20:11:08 <HackEgo> welcome.ru? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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20:16:46 <\oren\> `? welcome.iw
20:16:47 <HackEgo> welcome.iw? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:16:50 <\oren\> `? welcome.he
20:16:52 <HackEgo> welcome.he? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:16:55 <\oren\> bah
20:17:11 <\oren\> `? welcome.ja
20:17:12 <HackEgo> ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: <http://esolangs.org/>。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ)
20:17:20 <\oren\> `? welcome.ko
20:17:21 <HackEgo> welcome.ko? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:17:30 <\oren\> BAH!
20:27:29 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; echo welcome.*
20:27:31 <HackEgo> welcome.bork welcome.de welcome.eo welcome.es welcome.fi welcome.fr welcome.is welcome.ja welcome.nb welcome.nl welcome.sv welcome.tr
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20:47:52 <\oren\> what. why URL country codes"?
20:49:02 <erkin> Internet habit, I'd assume.
20:49:15 <erkin> We often talk like "in .ru it's always blah blah"
20:49:33 <erkin> `? welcome.bork
20:49:34 <HackEgo> Velcume-a tu zee interneshunel hoob fur isutereec prugremmeeng lungooege-a deseegn und depluyment! Fur mure-a inffurmeshun, check oooot oooor veeki: <http://isulungs.oorg/>. (Fur zee oozeer keend ooff isutereeca, try #isutereec oon IFnet oor DELnet.)
20:49:46 <erkin> Needs møre møøse jøkes
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21:30:43 <FireFly> a møøse once bit mi sister
21:31:22 <shachaf> FireFternoon
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22:03:44 <\oren\> well at least now I have two long-running thingies to watch
22:03:58 <\oren\> build/test processes that is
22:04:17 <\oren\> so things are looking up!
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22:20:44 <quintopia> no shapr i do not
22:23:24 <shachaf> pikhq_: hikhq_
22:23:30 <shachaf> pikhq++
22:24:01 <pikhq_> Yep
22:25:03 <shachaf> How's CO?
22:25:15 <shachaf> Any CO poisoning yet?
22:26:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:30:58 <pikhq_> CO's quite fine, and no CO poisoning.
22:31:01 <fizzie> Grumble frumble Debian netinst doesn't seem to support a floppy drive, that's just odd.
22:31:12 <pikhq_> I have a CO detector, and my apartment doesn't have gas heating.
22:31:21 <pikhq_> Though, I'm next to the boiler room, so...
22:32:04 <shachaf> I have a CO detector.
22:32:08 <shachaf> And gas heating.
22:32:20 <shachaf> What if my CO detector is broken and I'm getting CO poisoning all the time?
22:33:18 <int-e> fizzie: let me guess it's too new and therefore only supported in Debian unstable...
22:33:40 <pikhq_> CO poisoning tends to be fairly obvious.
22:33:56 <pikhq_> I should probably dig for my weather radio though.
22:34:00 <int-e> (I'm actually a Debian user but this joke was hanging too low, it had to be plucked.)
22:34:47 <shachaf> The weather has been volatile around here.
22:34:49 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
22:34:49 <lambdabot> KOAK 232153Z 28008KT 10SM FEW030 FEW180 16/07 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP231 T01610072
22:35:37 <pikhq_> @metar KAFF
22:35:37 <lambdabot> KAFF 232158Z AUTO 24013G19KT 10SM CLR 20/M13 A2959 RMK AO2 PK WND 21026/37 SLP972 T01961127
22:35:51 <shachaf> @metar KPHX
22:35:51 <lambdabot> KPHX 232151Z 26018G24KT 10SM SCT070 BKN100 BKN250 22/02 A2996 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE SLP135 VIRGA SE-S T02170017
22:36:18 <pikhq_> Tomorrow we're looking at a possible blizzard.
22:37:15 <fizzie> int-e: It's odd, I believe you can still even *boot* the thing from a pair of floppies.
22:37:16 <pikhq_> Right now we're on alert for high fire risk.
22:37:28 <fizzie> int-e: The drive works fine (I could even boot from some leftover Linux 2.1.x floppies), but if I boot from a Debian netinst USB stick there's no sign of the floppy drive anywhere.
22:38:04 <fizzie> I'm trying to smuggle in the floppy.ko file from the full-fledged jessie linux-image-* package in the hopes that I could just load it.
22:38:16 <shachaf> don't copy that floppy.ko
22:38:58 <int-e> Just burn a CD instead.
22:39:02 <int-e> (shachaf)
22:41:36 <int-e> You know this... But that was a really stupid thing to say about floppies... those things tended to get scratched far too often. So copying it would be the very first thing you'd do.
22:42:22 <shachaf> I doubt people who sold you floppies minded too much?
22:42:34 <fizzie> Amazing, it actually worked.
22:42:42 <int-e> Oh, the BSA still exists, though they somehow don't stress the B anymore.
22:42:52 <pikhq_> I believe that thing was from the era of the 3.25" floppies, which don't get damaged that easily.
22:43:01 <pikhq_> (still fragile, but hey)
22:43:06 <int-e> pikhq_: funny
22:43:28 <int-e> I don't recall any 3.25" disks ;-)
22:43:34 <shachaf> Floppy Among the more provocative approaches BSA has taken is the Bust Your Boss! campaign that has appeared on billboards, printed publications and on the Internet with the following suggestion: "Is your current or former employer using pirated software in their office? Hit 'em where it really hurts - report their illegal software use today.
22:43:41 <pikhq_> ... Whoops.
22:43:45 <shachaf> int-e: They were 3.25" when I was done with them.
22:43:52 <pikhq_> Though, there weren't any 3.5" either.
22:44:02 <pikhq_> 90mm != 3.5".
22:44:10 <shachaf> I think I cut floppy disks open and made sunglasses out of them for a costume.
22:44:44 <shachaf> oh man
22:44:53 <shachaf> I had a Zip drive
22:45:00 <shachaf> Those things were too good.
22:45:04 <shachaf> 100 MB!
22:46:04 <int-e> pikhq_: well, when I was in high school, there were many floppy disk drives used by too many careless people... basically I had floppies scratched every week. which led me to use cheap floppies... which turned out to be unreliable ;)
22:46:23 <int-e> I really don't miss those days at all.
22:46:35 <int-e> Well, not for the floppies anyway.
22:47:05 <shachaf> High density floppies were too good.
22:47:28 <pikhq_> I've still got an LS-120 drive around here.
22:47:36 <shachaf> 1.44MB!
22:47:51 <shachaf> That's megabyte
22:47:52 <pikhq_> I ought to plug that in and see if the Linux drivers for it have bitrot or not.
22:48:12 <int-e> shachaf: that's when they started to mix decimal and binary units
22:48:16 <pikhq_> IIRC, the actual capacity was 1440 kiB.
22:48:40 <int-e> (same for the 1.2MB 5.25" floppies)
22:49:33 <int-e> pikhq_: right. 2 sides, 90 tracks, 18 sectors, 512 bytes each.
22:49:34 <shachaf> Some people don't like it when I write units like MbHz
22:49:40 <shachaf> For some reason.
22:50:19 <int-e> (for some reason, the 5.25" disks had onle 15 sectors. probably some precision problem)
22:50:25 <int-e> *only
22:50:27 <shachaf> Oh, they only used FAT-12?
22:50:29 <shachaf> TG
22:50:33 <pikhq_> The megabit-hertz seems a touch unusual.
22:50:47 <int-e> shachaf: of course, the FAT needs to be small!!!1
22:50:54 <int-e> metadata is such a waste
22:50:56 <shachaf> pikhq_: It's a pretty popular unit.
22:51:26 <pikhq_> More for compatibility reasons; even DOS 2 supports FAT-12.
22:51:41 <shachaf> Scow Operating System
22:51:42 <pikhq_> (as do some pre-MSDOS systems)
22:51:55 <shachaf> pikhq_: Are you still universitting?
22:52:08 <pikhq_> Oh, huh, no; FAT-12 was first in QDOS.
22:52:10 <pikhq_> shachaf: Yes.
22:52:28 <pikhq_> Well, not literally this second.
22:52:58 <shachaf> Is it good?
22:53:14 <pikhq_> Mostly.
22:53:31 <pikhq_> One class has a professor that I think takes meth before showing up.
22:53:43 <pikhq_> He's utterly incoherent and rambles on and on.
22:53:49 <shachaf> what a meth
22:53:50 <pikhq_> I think somewhere in there he might be discussing something.
22:54:10 <pikhq_> N-methylamphetamine, a popular stimulant.
22:54:10 <int-e> . o O ( universitting is like dog sitting, but on a larger scale )
22:55:53 <shachaf> pikhq_: yes, jutht thaying it's quite a meth he's gotten himthelf into hth
22:55:55 <shachaf> yeth
22:56:33 <pikhq_> OIC
22:56:35 <int-e> ith thith a theeth joke?
22:57:22 <pikhq_> I dhon' know, I think I'm thtill thalking a bith like thith.
22:57:54 <shachaf> Do you use two-factor authentication for your Google account?
22:57:59 <pikhq_> Yes.
22:58:05 <shachaf> Which factors?
22:58:15 <pikhq_> Password, TOTP.
22:58:27 <shachaf> What would you do if you lost your TOTP machine?
22:58:52 <pikhq_> Grab the security codes out of the safe I keep them in.
22:59:15 <shachaf> What if you were traveling and you lost all your things?
22:59:40 <pikhq_> I'd have higher priority problems to deal with first.
23:00:04 <shachaf> After you dealt with all the higher priority problems.
23:00:11 <int-e> `? shachaf
23:00:12 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:00:17 <shachaf> true
23:00:25 <shachaf> I'm a bit worried, is all.
23:00:33 <shachaf> I memorized two security codes.
23:00:36 <pikhq_> ... Then I'd probably be able to get access to said safe?
23:00:51 <pikhq_> Or an already-logged-in device.
23:00:51 <shachaf> You wouldn't want to access your Google account until you got home?
23:01:18 <pikhq_> In this particular situation, I don't think that's too big of a deal.
23:01:38 <shachaf> I see.
23:02:08 <pikhq_> I should probably switch to using a U2F token, though.
23:02:20 <shachaf> I was considering memorizing my TOTP secret.
23:02:23 <shachaf> y/n?
23:03:59 <int-e> "something you've forgotten, something you've lost, and something you were."
23:04:32 <int-e> and in any case, https://xkcd.com/538/ seems relevant
23:05:51 <shachaf> Why?
23:06:39 <int-e> the stuff you memorize may be a liability
23:06:40 <pikhq_> In the case of 2FA, what you're really protecting yourself against above all else is mass password cracks and leaks.
23:07:04 <pikhq_> i.e. it's a useful step against random Internet thugs.
23:07:17 <shachaf> against random Internet hugs?!
23:07:28 <pikhq_> (and that is the most relevant attacker in my threat model)
23:08:24 <int-e> pikhq_: the comic was for shachaf's plan of memorizing backup security codes
23:08:37 <shachaf> Well, I already memorized them.
23:08:41 <shachaf> Can't unmemorize.
23:08:44 <int-e> the "something you've lost" part was about the tokens of course
23:08:46 <shachaf> But I suppose I can regenerate them.
23:09:40 <int-e> but that doesn't mean they're a bad idea as part of 2FA... they are worth little without the password
23:09:48 <int-e> (s)
23:10:13 <shachaf> I think traveling and having my computer and wallet and phone stolen isn't entirely unrealistic.
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