00:04:57 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokWae/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57350&oldid=57349 * YamTokWae * (+748) /* Commands */
00:13:00 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokWae/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57351&oldid=57350 * YamTokWae * (+4)
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02:32:09 <zzo38> I don't know if there are similar ideas from other philosophers like my ideas of dual free will and transcendental deterministic free will.
02:33:39 <rain1> what is that idea?
02:33:41 <rain1> i never heard that
02:35:50 <zzo38> My ideas are: Dual free will assumes a nondeterministic universe, and there are two kind of free will, being classical free will and quantum free will; quantum free will is more free but is also less effective than classical free will. Transcendental deterministic free will means a deterministic universe that uses transcendental numbers in the initial state in order to make a kind of free will.
02:36:27 <zzo38> (This argument does not prove the existence of free will, but it allows it to be possible.)
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03:43:17 <MDude> I still don't see how the Greeks thought it was a good idea to have free will be in opposition to determinism, what with determinism meaning your actions are determined by your own traits?
03:43:52 <Sgeo> pikhq, halp I seem to be mentally designing yet another Tcl OO system
03:44:12 <shachaf> can you design my language instead
03:44:17 <Sgeo> {*}$foo somemethod to call a non-mutating method, mut foo somemethod to call a mutating method
03:44:34 <Sgeo> Mutation requires a variable name just like incr does
03:46:01 <zzo38> Is that what determinism means? Wikipedia says: "Determinism is the philosophical theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes. Determinism is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do. The theory holds that the universe is utterly rational [...]"
03:46:49 <zzo38> O, there is also a list of the varieties
03:48:20 <zzo38> (Of course then you have to define free will too, I suppose.)
03:55:12 <pikhq> Sgeo: Friends don't let friends do yet another Tcl object system.
03:56:01 <Sgeo> I think the one I'm imagining sort of takes inspiration from both that transparent one + a bit of Rust (distinction between mutation and not)
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03:59:55 <Sgeo> Incidentally, is there a way to pass a variable name to a proc without forcing the proc to use upvar?
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04:00:07 <MDude> I mean, "previously existing causes" could be taken to invlude personal traits.
04:00:39 <zzo38> Yes, that is part of it. But even in case of nondeterminism, there is partial determinism.
04:01:21 <pikhq> Sgeo: Don't think so honestly
04:01:50 <Sgeo> Suppose I could make my own proc-like that does it automatically, for convenience sake
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04:28:56 <Sgeo> Although Tcl has too many ways to represent anonymous functions, command prefixes remind me of currying which is nice
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06:19:41 <zzo38> The Free Hero Mesh file format, although it splits the puzzle set into four files rather than only one, the class definitions are stored in text format rather than binary, and the additional headers needed for each level and picture as well as the extra copy of the class and user message list required in the level file, it is still less than a third of the original file size.
06:22:29 <zzo38> I have now documented the format of the .xclass .level .solution files, although the .class file still is not yet documented.
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15:02:35 <zseri> https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/error-chain/pull/252
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15:43:00 <esowiki> [[Unfedern]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57352&oldid=57323 * Zseri * (+23) 2018
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17:36:43 * int-e wonders whether tromp has been up to anything interesting (for this channel) recently.
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17:46:08 <rain1> there was a new BLC paper
17:46:16 <rain1> https://tromp.github.io/cl/LC.pdf
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17:53:15 <int-e> Ah, nice, though technically there's nothing really new in there...
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18:16:21 <int-e> rain1: also I'm wondering whether there's anything new in that paper since 2014 :)
18:20:42 <int-e> And at a glance (scrolling through two PDFs) the answer is "no".
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18:27:22 <arseniiv> zzo38: they finally settled on “rēvērā id nōn vīs” and “jam tibi dīxī tē id nōlle” resp.; wait a second and I tell you in how many ways it could be written
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18:31:26 <arseniiv> macrons (ā) here aren’t a classical diacritic to indicate vowel length, so you would possibly want one of the following things:
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18:34:17 <arseniiv> (a) to omit it altogether, (b) to replace it with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apex_(diacritic) (in that article, it’s also said that Í is written as a so-called long I, but you could write an apex anyway, as I am unsure if this form of I is in Unicode)
18:36:45 <arseniiv> also, with apices you could use a small caps lettering and J → I, U → V. If you don’t want to mark vowel lengths, it’s probably better to leave all as it is, only to capitalize first letters of phrases if you wish
18:38:12 <arseniiv> in these cases it should look AFAIR more like a classical inscription (apices, small caps, no JU) or a medieval/renaissance one (no apices)
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18:53:32 <zzo38> OK, but what are the meaning of those? I don't know Latin so well. Then I can add them into the proper places
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18:58:01 <zzo38> Thank you to figure it out though
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19:15:15 <esowiki> [[Talk:Unassignable-ABCDXYZ equivalency proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57353&oldid=11581 * Zseri * (+375)
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19:20:34 <arseniiv> zzo38: the first for the first in the text and the second for the second
19:21:01 <arseniiv> first on the outside of the box and second inside
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19:53:38 * oerjan sort of thought latin used fewer pronouns than that
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19:59:17 <zzo38> I don't know if it is or not, using fewer pronouns than that.
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20:01:30 <ais523> it's rare to use pronouns in Latin except for emphasis, as verbs have "implied" pronouns along with them
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20:01:37 <ais523> which they default to if no subject is reasonable
20:01:44 <ais523> I think you can use pronouns for the object reasonably enough
20:01:51 <ais523> *if no subject is given
20:05:39 <zzo38> What is the case in the Latin inscriptions mentioned in my story?
20:06:30 <oerjan> i suppose the only actual finite verb there is dixi, whose pronoun _is_ missing.
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20:08:08 <oerjan> the first sentence seems to have dropped the verb for to be instead of the pronoun (which may also be common)
20:08:48 <oerjan> oh well i'm no expert.
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20:23:43 <zzo38> Is there variant of OpenID which can be used without a HTML document or stuff like that, making it independent of the user interface? (How exactly you then identify will depend on the server working. Of course there can still be protocols, e.g. HTTP(S) or FTP or Gopher can be used to automatically download an information file.)
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22:56:39 <\oren\> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/954088127500733730/34060460FB95C746608C9E2C3930A1CAA668E9D7/
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