00:01:32 <int-e> This is hard. Maybe: ... will eventually have on-invent haventa a time machine forwhen presooning inventwentaa pre-Taneb.
00:02:38 <int-e> (Douglas Adams wasn't Tolkien. Tolkien would probably have worked out an actual grammar rather than making up some patterns on the spot. :P)
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00:09:50 <fizzie> I've almost resigned to just buying the Baba game, because of all the talk about it here.
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00:31:10 <kmc> what is baba is you
00:31:14 <kmc> and why is everyone talking about it
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00:35:17 <fizzie> It's a videogame/esolang (but more a videogame than esolang). There's a slightly stubby article in the esolangs wiki about it though.
00:36:04 <fizzie> You push things around, but some of those things are the words that tell the world how to behave.
00:36:11 <kmc> I'll check it out
00:36:29 <fizzie> It's also very frustrating to watch other people to play it, at least for me.
00:36:46 <int-e> That's a nice way of putting it. ("World, behave!")
00:37:29 <shachaf> I like watching other people play it.
00:37:42 <shachaf> But admittedly that's after I played it and already know how the rules work.
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05:04:47 <HackEso> brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
05:06:22 <oerjan> `le/rn_append brexit//If not enough force is available, the command will repeatedly delay itself.
05:06:24 <HackEso> Learned 'brexit': brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space. If not enough force is available, the command will repeatedly delay itself.
05:08:10 <oerjan> `le/rn_append brexit//This command has a known bug where it will repeadly delay itself if not enough force is available.
05:08:13 <HackEso> Learned 'brexit': brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space. This command has a known bug where it will repeadly delay itself if not enough force is available.
05:08:35 <oerjan> `slwd brexit//s,pead,peated,
05:08:37 <HackEso> brexit//brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space. This command has a known bug where it will repeatedly delay itself if not enough force is available.
05:09:26 <oerjan> `slwd brexit//s,has a known,was recently discovered to have a,
05:09:27 <HackEso> brexit//brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space. This command was recently discovered to have a bug where it will repeatedly delay itself if not enough force is available.
05:17:29 <oerjan> on the flip side, looks like uk may get an extra scary halloween this year
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12:08:04 <wob_jonas> I asked for an olist, and didn't get that, but at least we have an
12:08:23 <wob_jonas> `ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2774640/shes-really-somethin/
12:08:24 <HackEso> ehlist http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/comics/2774640/shes-really-somethin/: b_jonas
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16:26:44 <esowiki> [[User:Areallycoolusername]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60982&oldid=60567 * Areallycoolusername * (+15) /* Full List of languages I Made */
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18:40:04 <int-e> This is an excellent point... "environmental protection" is misleading terminology for what should really be called "self-preservation".
18:41:33 <LKoen> it's a bad nash equilibrium
18:49:39 <kmc> around here, the Sierra Club blocks transit oriented development
18:49:54 <kmc> they fought to save a "historic parking garage"
18:50:44 <kmc> they want to have fewer people living here (only the wealthy) but what that actually means is longer commutes, primarily by CO₂ producing cars
18:51:10 <kmc> the "california environmental quality act" is largely used to preserve parking and roads
18:51:14 <kmc> I agree in the general case though
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19:35:38 <oren> b_jonas: the israeli moon lander. crashed into the surface at over 100 m/s
19:35:59 <b_jonas> hmm. what was the planned speed?
19:36:22 <j4cbo> was supposed to be a soft touchdown
19:36:33 <b_jonas> yeah, tricky naming system
19:37:04 <b_jonas> "probe" if it is to crash, "lander" if it is to touch down
19:43:12 <kmc> what went wrong?
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19:55:59 <arseniiv> wait, is it really crashed? It seemed so joyful one moment on that stream when I looked at it
19:57:12 <arseniiv> I hoped for pictures of the Moon in 4k or something…
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20:14:03 <Taneb> kmc: engine cut out, it lost too much altitude before they could reset
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21:02:08 <b_jonas> There's a certain narrative that I'd like to suggest we add to esolangs mythology.
21:02:52 <b_jonas> This one goes back to the prehistory in the seventies, when we had esolangs like Intercal.
21:04:44 <b_jonas> So there was this hacker Dennis Ritchie who made an esoteric language called C. And all the other esolangers laughed at him, saying that it wasn't an interesting esolang at all, because it didn't have any interesting restrictions, it was just a thin layer of syntax obfuscation for ordinary programming languages.
21:05:42 <b_jonas> They pointed him at what they considered good examples of esolangs, like Intercal which doesn't allow ordinary arithmetic, or befunge which didn't allow ordinary control flow.
21:07:02 <b_jonas> Plus C fooled non-esolangers the same way, it got picked up by hackers like Ken Thompson, and the esolangers told him that the rule was that if the language is used in production then it's not an actual esolang.
21:07:49 <b_jonas> And with that excuse, they didn't allow him to create a page for C on the esolang wiki, and refused his membership application to the esolanger club, and didn't allow him into esolanger parties.
21:08:08 <b_jonas> But Dennis didn't despair, because he knew that his time would come soon and that he would have the last laugh.
21:08:43 <b_jonas> And indeed, more and more people were fooled by the apparent transparency of C. Hackers were using it to write real programs, because C allowed you to write code in what seems like clever ways.
21:09:27 <b_jonas> And the hackers wrote all the clever optimizations to save a few clock cycles or bytes of memory, while C allowed their program to be easier to port among different computers.
21:10:02 <b_jonas> But the hackers didn't like writing documentation, so when other hackers started using the same clever subroutines, they didn't notice that those optimizations came with boundary conditions that made the code fail in certain circumstances.
21:10:41 <b_jonas> And they used the clever subroutines, and found them to be working when they tried the code, but when the time came to run the code with untrusted input as an internet service, the security bugs came up.
21:11:40 <b_jonas> And by the time the hackers noticed that C encouraged those kids of clever tricks, it was too late, they were all ensnared by Dennis Ritchie's trap. They looked around and saw that all the network infrastructure and operating systems and basic tools have now been implemented in C,
21:11:55 <b_jonas> and riddled with obscure security bugs that are hard to debug.
21:12:36 <b_jonas> And that's not all. Eventually computers became cheap enough and got industry applications, so it was no longer only hackers who wrote code for them. Code monkeys started to write code by imitating what they saw in the hacker's programs.
21:13:31 <b_jonas> And since all the existing programs were written in C, that's what the code monkeys wrote too. And the code monkeys weren't writing clever optimizations, they wrote code by successive approximation with a hammer and always kept the first working version rather than trying to come up with clever tricks.
21:13:57 <b_jonas> But that didn't save their code either, for C was so cleverly designed, that even such straightforward programs will have bugs.
21:15:03 <b_jonas> The code monkeys liked how C came with useful library functions, such as strcat to concatenate strings, but their tiny little monkey brain couldn't understand that strings need to be stored somewhere in memory in a large enough array and that they mustn't use memory after its lifetime.
21:15:26 <b_jonas> So their code was full of buffer overflows and use after free and uninitialized pointers.
21:16:20 <b_jonas> And all the esolangers ended up in consultant jobs where they had to try to untangle the buggy programs that the code monkeys wrote, and teach them good programming practice, each of which was hopeless because the companies insisted on using C because it was the industry standard,
21:16:38 <b_jonas> all the while the esolangers couldn't even trust their own tools, because they too were written in C and had bugs.
21:17:21 <b_jonas> And when the day of judgement comes, Dennis Ritchie will arise from his grave and hold trial over all the esolangers who doubted his language and didn't allow him in esolanger circles,
21:19:17 <b_jonas> and they will be forced to recant their views in ironic ways. The esolangers who made esoteric languages with bounded tape size and bignum cells will now have to spend double exponential time in purgatory to cleanse their soul in a horribly slow [-] loop where they have to recant not only their own insulting statements towards Ritchie,
21:20:21 <b_jonas> but also all other possible insulting statements not longer than that. The people who invented two-dimensional esolangs will lose their sanity and will run around without end in a tight loop of four cells.
21:21:17 <b_jonas> And only the esolangers pure in heart will be spared, the likes of Arthur Whitney who helped Ritchie's scheme of getting esoteric languages into production.
21:21:44 <b_jonas> Do you suppose we could adopt this as an offical creation myth of esolangs?
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21:43:41 <HackEso> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
21:52:54 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the limerick, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
21:52:59 <HackEso> Culinary tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, weetoflakes, mushrooms, nutella, and cognac.
21:53:03 <HackEso> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, linear logic, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, Stone spaces, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
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22:17:13 <kmc> T-18m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojvu2u28CIY
22:20:54 <kmc> they're live now
22:26:05 <kmc> stream is crapping out :( :( :(
22:26:52 <kmc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXMGu2d8c8g
22:28:02 <b_jonas> kmc: that says something about the Falcon heavy rocket
22:29:52 <b_jonas> but if the lander already crashed, how is it that they're launching the rockets only now? is Taneb's time machine involved?
22:30:05 <kmc> two space things are happening today
22:30:07 <b_jonas> I'm confused by all this space news
22:30:08 <kmc> they are not related
22:30:25 <kmc> but yeah I think time machines may be involved
22:30:39 <b_jonas> yes. one is the telescope that photographs a black hole, the other is the lander
22:30:54 <b_jonas> oh right! the black hole is the time machine
22:46:30 <kmc> they landed all 3 first stages :D
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22:51:38 <b_jonas> hmm, there are once again the same number of M:tG planeswalker cards for Jace and Chandra. Chandra was in the lead for a short while, which seemed really odd to me, but they rectified that in the latest expansion.
22:56:16 <b_jonas> they're even tied with Liliana and Ajani now. that's weird.
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23:22:25 <oerjan> <oren> RIP bereshit <-- i feel like making a bad joke about it having its own idea about where the border between space and moon was
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23:26:32 <oerjan> and then i should connect it to brexit, i guess.
23:26:58 <int-e> Hmm... cutting the engine in free fall?
23:27:29 <int-e> . o O ( Hrm. This program was clearly buggy. Why, then, did it produce correct results? Sigh. )
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23:28:53 <oerjan> int-e: two off-by-one bugs in opposite directions hth
23:29:56 <HackEso> off by two:An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction. \ off by two error:An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction. \ seventh day adventism:Seventh Day Adventism is an attempt to bugfix an off-by-one error in Anabaptism
23:30:12 <int-e> Nah, that's too simple. I'm computing https://oeis.org/A174094 and the maybe-not-but-why bug is in decomposing the enumeration into independent subproblems.
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23:39:16 <oerjan> <b_jonas> Do you suppose we could adopt this as an offical creation myth of esolangs? <-- no hth
23:40:02 <oerjan> i didn't read all of it, but enough to dislike it.
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