←2020-06-05 2020-06-06 2020-06-07→ ↑2020 ↑all
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00:02:27 <Antebrationist> Hello again.
00:03:45 <Antebrationist> Does anybody know of a Python single-function brainfuck interpreter; Namely, one which takes a string of "+-<>[]" as input, assumes all inputs using , to be 0 and outputs, as a string, the STDOUT of the program?
00:07:34 <shachaf> Taneb: I like the last eight octets of your IPv6 address.
00:07:44 <shachaf> Very oerjany. Maybe intentionally?
00:08:35 <shachaf> Hmm, that's a human who hasn't been around in a bit.
00:09:05 <shachaf> Several months, actually, hm.
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02:23:06 <tswett[m]> oerjan hasn't been?
02:39:41 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73300&oldid=62279 * Voltage2007 * (+42)
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05:02:12 <zzo38> I found a bug in Ghostscript with printobject, where sometimes it writes array elements in the wrong order.
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05:17:40 <esowiki> [[User talk:AC01010]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=73301 * TwilightSparkle * (+196) Created page with "== Welcome, I guess == Welcome! Please sign your comments with four tildes: <pre>~~~~</pre>. ~~~~"
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06:12:54 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73302&oldid=72390 * TwilightSparkle * (+103) /* Easy */
06:22:23 <esowiki> [[1+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73303&oldid=68011 * TwilightSparkle * (+139) /* Commands and syntax */
06:23:58 <esowiki> [[1+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73304&oldid=73303 * TwilightSparkle * (+22) /* Undocumented instruction */
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09:06:02 <Taneb> shachaf: I don't know what you mean
09:18:13 <shachaf> Taneb: :aaaa:0:aaaa:0
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09:53:17 <b_jonas> fungot, what are the prime factors of 1536?
09:53:51 <fungot> b_jonas: ( translate ( german english) " fnord" meant " macros", but " they don't agree on events being a general solution where you gave the dictionary inside the function
09:55:42 <myname> 2 is definitely in there
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10:42:38 <fizzie> `factor 1536
10:42:39 <HackEso> 1536: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3
10:42:46 <fizzie> Yes, you could say that.
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11:55:20 <fizzie> @pl \d w -> f d >> t d w
11:55:20 <lambdabot> ap ((.) . (>>) . f) t
11:55:28 <fizzie> Hm, I don't think that's an improvement.
11:56:02 <fizzie> (Also it should've been >>= but that hardly matters.)
11:59:46 <olsner> @pl \d w -> f d >>= t d w
11:59:47 <lambdabot> ap ((.) . (>>=) . f) t
11:59:57 <olsner> indeed it didn't
12:13:04 <fizzie> Ugh. I wanted to do something XInput-related in my XMonad configuration, but the XMonad handleEventHook is in terms of Graphics.X11.Xlib.Extras.Event, which is a "processed" form of the raw XEvent and doesn't have support for extensions. It will just get turned into the fallback "AnyEvent", and all the interesting bits are discarded.
12:17:58 <shachaf> whoa, fizzie is doing Haskell?
12:18:14 <shachaf> I'm using i3 nowadays and it works pretty well. What a silly language Haskell is.
12:18:28 <fizzie> I strictly only ever touch it when fiddling with XMonad.
12:21:06 <fizzie> Now that I'm working from home, there's a lot more swapping of monitors for the work laptop, so I wrote a moderately clever and flexible AutoRandr module, which went pretty well. It talks to Xrandr directly, parses EDID data, and tries to find a matching configuration.
12:22:03 <fizzie> Inspired by that, I was now looking at also hooking in keyboard layout configuramation when XInput events happen, but that seems a little nastier. I may just fall back to the tiny "inputplug" program instead of integrating it to the window manager.
12:23:33 <fizzie> http://ix.io/2opR -- see, doesn't that look quite acceptable?
12:24:38 <fizzie> (Okay, I did cheat a little in that I do the reconfiguring through the xrandr CLI, rather than talking to the extension directly. I promise there was a good reason for that, I just forgot what it was.)
12:24:58 <shachaf> I have a program that monitors keyboard layout change events and a bunch of other things: https://slbkbs.org/tmp/statustext.c
12:25:40 <shachaf> (It just prints text to the status bar, though.)
12:26:02 <shachaf> As of recently I got wireless headphones, and it doesn't detect when I turn them on or off, and keeps displaying the volume for the old device. I don't think the ALSA exposes the thing I want, so I might have to switch to pulseaudio.
12:26:27 <shachaf> But having written a small amount of pulseaudio code I'm really not looking forward to that.
12:26:56 <fizzie> I'm back to pulseaudio, after going through OSS -> ALSA -> pulseaudio -> ALSA -> pulseaudio so far.
12:27:32 <shachaf> That randrConfig looks quite acceptable, though there's no reason for it to be in the window manager, is there?
12:28:02 <fizzie> Not really, other than a perverse joy of nudging XMonad closer and closer to a DE.
12:28:38 <shachaf> I meant switching to the pulseaudio API for getting volume information.
12:28:43 <shachaf> I'm already using pulseaudio.
12:29:28 <fizzie> Oh, I see. Well, yeah. My volume control XMonad keybindings are now more or less defunct, because they were written for the ALSA API and would probably do the wrong thing.
12:29:42 <fizzie> (But there's a physical volume knob in the external USB DAC, which is the only audio output device I use, so it's kind of moot.)
12:30:09 <shachaf> I wrote a pulseaudio program to set the volume. It was a real maze of callbacks.
12:30:24 <shachaf> And that's just for the simplest task.
12:32:49 <shachaf> Man, I jammed up my C argument parser so you can specify things explicitly instead of parsing description strings.
12:32:57 <shachaf> This is more verbose but probably better?
12:34:05 <fizzie> Sounds plausible.
12:35:47 <shachaf> Now you specify arguments like MOP_OPT(&mop, .name = "verbose", .short_name = 'v', .help = "verbose mode") { printf("increasing verbosity\n"); }
12:36:28 <esowiki> [[1.1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73305&oldid=73288 * Hakerh400 * (+34) Fix typo and add interpreter
12:36:30 <b_jonas> shachaf: is there a way to give multiple alternative spellings/abbreviations for the long name? because I sort of think that long options are hard to design well without that.
12:36:41 <b_jonas> also that in most programs it's easier to just stick to short options
12:36:53 <shachaf> Hmm, not currently.
12:37:13 <fizzie> Do you have a `--helpfull` flag that's actually less helpful than `--help`?
12:37:18 <shachaf> I could add that but I'm unlikely to use it.
12:37:22 <b_jonas> shachaf: how do you specify whether the option has an argument in that?
12:37:28 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73306&oldid=73156 * Hakerh400 * (+10)
12:37:34 <shachaf> fizzie: I'm not planning to go the way of gflags.
12:37:43 <shachaf> b_jonas: Currently with .wants_optarg = true
12:38:07 <shachaf> See https://slbkbs.org/tmp/mop/mop.h
12:38:08 <b_jonas> fungot: no, that probably uses the weird syntax --help --verbose
12:38:09 <fungot> b_jonas: if you make a file upload progress bar with rails and ajax things won't work, i mainly just idle on my other computer has 32 megs of ram
12:38:16 <b_jonas> argh
12:38:18 <b_jonas> fizzie: ^^
12:38:46 <fizzie> fungot: Where have you been hiding another computer in?
12:38:46 <fungot> fizzie: uh. openoffice help neglects to list one part of the course, and one mutex ( for committing optimistic concurrency logs)
12:38:56 <fizzie> So evasive.
12:39:20 <b_jonas> shachaf: I mean, except in some programs that really have a lot of options, the point of long options is just that it may be easier to remember/guess the option name, but that works well only if the program accepts multiple alternatives
12:39:44 <shachaf> No, the point of long options is that it's easier to read an invocation of a command that uses them.
12:39:54 <b_jonas> hmm ok
12:40:08 <fizzie> Now I'm wondering if there are many programs that will accept any unique abbreviation of an argument.
12:40:17 <shachaf> I mean, maybe the thing you said is also the point, but I don't really want people to be guessing options.
12:40:20 <b_jonas> fizzie: sadly yes
12:40:38 <b_jonas> fizzie: and that can cause backward compatibility failure when a later version adds an option
12:40:41 <shachaf> There are some option parsing libraries that will take any unambiguous prefix of a long option. That doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
12:40:47 <shachaf> For the reason b_jonas said.
12:41:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: gnu's getopt_long actually does that by default
12:41:20 <shachaf> whoa, so it does!
12:41:24 <shachaf> I somehow didn't know that.
12:41:38 <b_jonas> silently
12:41:40 <shachaf> `` /bin/ls --versi
12:41:41 <HackEso> ls (GNU coreutils) 8.30 \ Copyright (C) 2018 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Richard M. Stallman and David MacKenzie.
12:41:48 <fizzie> Heh, I wasn't expecting it to be *that* common.
12:41:52 <b_jonas> is that version sort?
12:42:00 <b_jonas> like ls -v ?
12:42:14 <fizzie> `` /bin/ls --ve
12:42:15 <HackEso> ls (GNU coreutils) 8.30 \ Copyright (C) 2018 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Richard M. Stallman and David MacKenzie.
12:42:44 <fizzie> `` /bin/ls --r
12:42:45 <HackEso> ​/bin/ls: option '--r' is ambiguous; possibilities: '--reverse' '--recursive' \ Try '/bin/ls --help' for more information.
12:42:47 <shachaf> I don't know why /bin/ls, given that ls isn't a shell builtin.
12:42:55 <fizzie> Yeah, I just copied it from you.
12:43:01 <b_jonas> ``` type ls
12:43:01 <shachaf> I mean I don't know why I did it.
12:43:02 <HackEso> ls is /hackenv/bin/ls
12:43:03 <b_jonas> ^ that's why
12:43:05 <b_jonas> also with sed
12:43:13 <shachaf> Oh, that's a good point!
12:43:15 <b_jonas> and I keep writing /bin/cat because I'm afraid that someone will override that too
12:43:30 <fizzie> `` ls --ve
12:43:31 <HackEso> ls (GNU coreutils) 8.30 \ Copyright (C) 2018 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Richard M. Stallman and David MacKenzie.
12:43:34 <b_jonas> esolang has a lot of incompatible shadowed commands, they're annoying, I hate them
12:43:44 <b_jonas> ``` /bin/w
12:43:45 <HackEso> bash: /bin/w: No such file or directory
12:43:50 <b_jonas> ``` /usr/bin/w
12:43:50 <fizzie> I don't know if they're *that* incompatible.
12:43:51 <HackEso> ​ 12:43:50 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
12:43:59 <fizzie> Well, okay, that one definitely is.
12:44:11 <b_jonas> that's not the worst one
12:44:38 <shachaf> `5 /usr/bin/w
12:44:42 <HackEso> 1/2: 12:44:39 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT \ 12:44:39 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT \ 12:44:39 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT \ 12:44:39 up 0 min, 0 users, load avera
12:45:43 <fizzie> How wise.
12:45:55 <fizzie> `? wise
12:45:56 <HackEso> Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise.
12:46:12 <shachaf> If Unix commands didn't want to be shadowed, they shouldn't have occupied such prime namespace.
12:46:17 <b_jonas> besides ls and sed, cc is also one that annoys me
12:46:19 <shachaf> Why is that in wisdom?
12:46:23 <b_jonas> yes, w is excusable
12:46:31 <shachaf> I kind of want to delete it but I feel like maybe I tried that before and someone reverted it.
12:46:43 <shachaf> I added it originally.
12:47:01 <shachaf> `` type cc
12:47:02 <HackEso> cc is /hackenv/bin/cc
12:47:08 <shachaf> `cbt cc
12:47:08 <fizzie> It does make me smile, which from the KonMari perspective suggests it should stay there?
12:47:09 <HackEso> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" | sed 's/\\n/\n/g' | gcc -w -Wfatal-errors -std=c11 -O2 -x c - -o /tmp/a.out && /tmp/a.out
12:47:33 <b_jonas> admittedly I installed /hackenv/bin/hello which also shadows a gnu utility incompatibly
12:47:48 <shachaf> whoa, what's bin/cc about? Bizarro mode 12,000.
12:48:02 <b_jonas> `whatis cc
12:48:07 <HackEso> cc(1hackeso) - no description
12:48:31 <fizzie> It's like a very poor man's copy of ##c's `,cc`, I think.
12:48:51 <shachaf> Should I actually do help autogeneration or is it not worth the trouble?
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12:50:44 <b_jonas> I can understand ones like man and wget
12:50:48 <b_jonas> oh yeah, paste is another offender
12:50:50 <b_jonas> `type -a paste
12:50:51 <HackEso> type? No such file or directory
12:50:54 <b_jonas> ``` type -a paste
12:50:55 <HackEso> paste is /hackenv/bin/paste \ paste is /usr/bin/paste
12:50:57 <b_jonas> ^ no relations to each other
12:51:10 <esowiki> [[Examinable Invocation Vector]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73307&oldid=65707 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe cross-namespace link
12:51:17 <b_jonas> `whatis nooodl:
12:51:18 <HackEso> nooodl:(1hackeso) - noooooo description
12:51:45 <b_jonas> have I sleepadded that, or has someone else been using addwhatis?
12:55:35 <b_jonas> `run hg cat -r 11847 /hackenv/share/whatis | grep -i ooo # I sleepadded that
12:55:36 <HackEso> nooodl:(1hackeso) - noooooo description \ rnooodl(1hackeso) - no description
12:55:41 <b_jonas> I've no idea what that actually does
12:56:06 <int-e> `nooodl nooodl
12:56:07 <HackEso> nooodl? No such file or directory
12:56:28 <b_jonas> int-e: it has a colon
12:56:38 <fizzie> `` echo nooodl | rnooodl
12:56:39 <HackEso> nooooodl
12:56:42 <fizzie> `` echo nooodl | rnooodl
12:56:43 <HackEso> noooooooodl
12:56:50 <b_jonas> `nooodl: hello
12:56:51 <HackEso> hello
12:57:02 <b_jonas> `run hello | nooodl:
12:57:03 <HackEso> No output.
12:57:06 <b_jonas> `run hello
12:57:07 <HackEso> hello, world
12:57:12 <b_jonas> ``` type -a nooodl:
12:57:13 <HackEso> noooooooodl: is /hackenv/bin/nooooodl:
12:57:22 <b_jonas> ``` cat /hackenv/bin/nooodl:
12:57:23 <HackEso> ​ELF............>.....(......@....... ..........@.8..@.........@.......@.......@.......h......h..................................................................................................................... ....... ....... ......9......9.....................`.......`.......`..................................................P.....................................................
12:57:28 <fizzie> The colon version seems to be not particularly useful.
12:57:34 <int-e> `` echo noodle | rnooodl
12:57:36 <HackEso> noodle
12:57:38 <esowiki> [[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73308&oldid=68858 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-29) /* References */ rm redtemplate
12:57:46 <fizzie> You need at least three o's to trigger that.
12:57:47 <int-e> Does it need three o's to trigger?
12:57:48 <shachaf> `` ls -l /hackenv/bin/nooodl:
12:57:49 <HackEso> lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 9 Jul 8 2017 /hackenv/bin/noooodl: -> /bin/echo
12:58:04 <b_jonas> `nooodl: hellooo wooorld nooodl
12:58:07 <HackEso> hellooo wooorld nooodl
12:58:15 <int-e> I thought it was two, so that a simple noodle would already be enlarged.
12:58:28 <shachaf> `dobg rnooodl
12:58:30 <HackEso> 8518:2016-06-17 <oerjän> ` hg cat -r 5060d5af0b98 bin/rnooodl >bin/rnooodl \ 8202:2016-05-29 <shachäf> sed -i s/w/wW/ bin/rnooodl \ 8198:2016-05-29 <oerjän> mkx bin/rnooodl//perl -pe \'s/([^w\\W])\\1\\1/"@{[$1 x(3+rand 7)]}"/ge\' \ 8197:2016-05-29 <oerjän> mkx bin/rnooodl//perl -pe \'s/([^w\\w])\\1\\1/"@{[$1 x(3+rand 7)]}"/ge\' \ 8196:2016-05-29 <oerjän> mkx bin/rnooodl//perl -pe \'s/(\\w)\\1\\1/"@{[$1 x(3+rand 7)]}"/ge\' \ 8195:2016
12:58:31 <b_jonas> it's three, luckily. and I hate it even this way.
12:58:54 <b_jonas> I hate it because it makes ``` not output partial lines after a timeout
12:58:57 <fizzie> The colon thing is kind of odd. I guess it does "integrate" with the rnooodl call in `` though.
12:59:01 <b_jonas> that could be fixed by a better program, but ouch
12:59:12 <shachaf> Remember when rnooodl would take any letter rather than just os? That was so good.
12:59:36 <fizzie> `` nooodl: This is a thing that should get rnooodlified. Maybe best to add another nooodle to be sure.
12:59:37 <HackEso> This is a thing that should get rnooooooooodlified. Maybe best to add another nooodle to be sure.
12:59:46 <b_jonas> we should just ln -s /bin/cat /hackenv/bin/rnooodl
13:00:13 <shachaf> `dobg nooodl:
13:00:20 <HackEso> 2787:2013-04-23 <noood̈l> ln -s /bin/echo bin/nooodl:
13:00:26 <shachaf> Ah. Well then.
13:01:35 <fizzie> I support getting rid of that one, and also rnoooodl in general if you feel like it, but I'm also tolerant enough of nonsense to not mind it's there.
13:02:27 <int-e> as long as it doesn't touch multiocular o's.
13:02:40 <fizzie> Also annoying, I found what I think is likely to be a copy of the Minecraft world some #esoteric people also contributed to, but couldn't immediately figure out how to convert it to something that could be viewed (it's pretty old), and now I've lost it *again*.
13:03:10 <fizzie> I distinctly remember thinking "well, this is not the optimal place to put this, it might get lost, but I'll get back to this the next day so it's probably fine".
13:03:27 <shachaf> Uh oh.
13:04:16 <b_jonas> what I dislike is that `` and ``` uses rnooodl
13:04:21 <b_jonas> I'd be fine with `w using it
13:04:31 <esowiki> [[Lazy expander]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73309&oldid=69877 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe
13:04:48 <esowiki> [[Transceternal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73310&oldid=66600 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe cross-namespace link
13:05:00 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73311&oldid=67947 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe cross-namespace link
13:05:05 <int-e> . o O ( b_jonas is not a pastafarian )
13:05:28 <esowiki> [[Happy Fantasy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73312&oldid=71415 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe cross-namespace link
13:05:44 <esowiki> [[Halt halt halt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73313&oldid=71446 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe cross-namespace link
13:05:46 <shachaf> Oh man, I gotta get back to my SAT solver.
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13:06:08 <shachaf> This is Luby restarts. Do you like this?
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13:07:40 <shachaf> Uh oh.
13:07:42 <shachaf> OK.
13:08:33 <b_jonas> I should at least rewrite rnooodl to make it able to output anything immediately, except in the one case where the input ends in "noood" or "Noood" in which case it should use a small timeout to wait for a possible "l"
13:08:52 <b_jonas> and even in that case the output would be missing only the trailing "d"
13:09:04 <esowiki> [[Insanity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73314&oldid=72961 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+40) /* Program structure */ specify
13:09:08 <shachaf> `cbt rnooodl
13:09:09 <HackEso> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
13:09:29 <int-e> b_jonas: is that even possible? Isn't the bigger problem that a lot of programs start buffering when writing to a pipe?
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13:09:43 <int-e> `` stty
13:09:44 <HackEso> stty: 'standard input': Inappropriate ioctl for device
13:09:50 <int-e> `stty
13:09:51 <HackEso> stty: 'standard input': Inappropriate ioctl for device
13:10:00 <int-e> Maybe it's not an issue for HackEso.
13:10:06 <b_jonas> int-e: that certainly happens, yes, but I often run commands that I write with ``` and in those I can flush the output explicitly
13:11:21 <b_jonas> ``
13:11:22 <HackEso> 436) <Phantom_Hoover> You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug?
13:11:29 <b_jonas> whoa, I didn't know `` with no args did that
13:12:01 <fizzie> "To many, high-end Ethernet cables are still a controversial subject. While plenty of experiments have proven to me that their influence is not imaginary, it sure is annoying that, so far, we have not been able to come up with a proper scientific explanation for why these cables can alter the sound."
13:12:28 <fizzie> (In a review for a 750€ Ethernet cable.)
13:13:21 <int-e> Yeah it's pipes anyway.
13:13:25 <fizzie> "There are some theories, though, and the one I personally think is plausible is that it is not the music stream itself that is affected but rather the influence of noise that travels along and subsequently influences circuits downstream."
13:13:44 <int-e> `stat /proc/self/1
13:13:45 <HackEso> stat: cannot stat '/proc/self/1': No such file or directory
13:13:46 <fizzie> This is starting to sound like water memory.
13:13:50 <int-e> `stat /proc/self/fd/1
13:13:51 <HackEso> ​ File: /proc/self/fd/1 -> pipe:[221] \ Size: 64 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 symbolic link \ Device: 4h/4dInode: 224 Links: 1 \ Access: (0300/l-wx------) Uid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2020-06-06 13:13:50.615096204 +0000 \ Modify: 2020-06-06 13:13:50.615096204 +0000 \ Change: 2020-06-06 13:13:50.615096204 +0000 \ Birth: -
13:14:34 <b_jonas> maybe the people who buy expensive Ethernet cables also buy more expensive sound equipment?
13:14:39 <fizzie> There's an intentional pipe in there.
13:15:26 <int-e> fizzie: Yeah, audiophilantry is highly esoteric.
13:15:44 <int-e> (audiophily is the proper word)
13:16:11 <fizzie> https://github.com/fis/umlbox/blob/master/init.c#L199
13:16:12 <int-e> audophilia may be better
13:16:27 <fizzie> I don't quite remember all the rationale.
13:17:03 <fizzie> I think the thinking was, some programs might switch to output formats more friendly for IRC when piped.
13:17:30 <fizzie> But it's a controversial topic.
13:18:05 <int-e> Hmm, plausible enough reason.
13:18:38 <int-e> I don't mind, I just didn't know (or quite possibly, forgot because it hardly ever matters).
13:18:44 <esowiki> [[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73315&oldid=73308 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) unpipe cross-namespace link
13:24:34 <esowiki> [[Elevated Parser]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73316&oldid=71933 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Addition */
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14:07:25 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73317&oldid=73302 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23)
14:08:49 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73318&oldid=73300 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+40) unpipe cross-namespace link +Cats
14:09:56 <esowiki> [[TM operator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73319&oldid=45594 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) cat
14:41:26 <esowiki> [[TWiRQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73320&oldid=16260 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+21)
14:42:40 <esowiki> [[TWiRQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73321&oldid=73320 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+77) deadlang
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15:42:47 <int-e> rain1: Get off my lawn! (It just started raining outside ;-) (And actually there's pavement there but who wants to be picky.))
15:43:25 <rain1> lol
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17:35:09 <b_jonas> let me try to rephrase. fungot, what are the *primal* factors of 1536 ?
17:35:31 <fungot> b_jonas: it's like deja vu all over again. if you do randomization, then why bother making this at all
17:35:38 <zzo38> I expect if Ethernet cables alter the sound, it might be due to interference which causes some data to get lost. So, it might have to do with the codec.
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17:36:11 <zzo38> But I don't know if that is true or not, anyways.
17:36:25 <b_jonas> or with a driver on Win32
17:37:49 <zzo38> Yes, although I don't think the driver on Win32 has to do with the physical cable.
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17:55:38 <zzo38> I am trying to fix a bug in Ghostscript, having to do with the printobject and writeobject operators.
18:00:21 <arseniiv> <fizzie> Also annoying, I found what I think is likely to be a copy of the Minecraft world some #esoteric people also contributed to, but couldn't immediately figure out how to convert it to something that could be viewed (it's pretty old), and now I've lost it *again*. => oh
18:00:32 <arseniiv> what version was it approximately if you remember?
18:01:35 <zzo38> I posted the bug report, but have gotten no reply yet; I am trying to see if I can fix it by myself, although since I have not signed the Artifex contribution agreement, I cannot contribute patches. They may eventually fix it, but before then, anyone who uses it must apply the patches by themself. The printobject and writeobject operators are mostly implemented in PostScript, so it can be patched without needing to recompile Ghostscrip
18:05:03 <fizzie> arseniiv: I imagine somewhere around 1.1.
18:08:14 <fizzie> I found something that might be it, and it's timestamped Oct 12 2011, so I guess that's actually still beta 1.9 then.
18:11:52 <fizzie> The files are region/r.X.Y.mcr, which apparently definitely dates it to >= beta 1.3, < 1.2.1.
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18:30:10 <fizzie> "This world was last played in vesrion unknown; you are on version 1.15.2." Well, at least it's going to attempt to convert it.
18:31:58 <arseniiv> <fizzie> I found something that might be it, and it's timestamped Oct 12 2011, so I guess that's actually still beta 1.9 then. => wow. I think I played only since 1.3 or something
18:32:19 <fizzie> Well, it loaded something.
18:32:24 <fizzie> I don't recognize the place though.
18:33:08 <arseniiv> I’d think there would be something flat and redstony
18:33:40 <fizzie> The game also keeps on bugging out a little, every few seconds it changes my view 90 degrees.
18:34:30 <arseniiv> :o
18:35:11 <fizzie> Actually it only happens if I move the mouse around. Weird.
18:35:53 <fizzie> I can see that triangular staircase that goes all the way to the top of the sky, which I *think* was part of the shared thing.
18:36:12 <fizzie> There wasn't anything particularly #esoteric about this, by the way, it was mostly just random chatting and silliness.
18:36:26 <arseniiv> hehe
18:37:04 <fizzie> There's also the incomplete zeppelin that I kinda-sorta remember.
18:37:54 <fizzie> (It'd be easier to navigate if I could look around without aiming directly upwards or downwards every few seconds.)
18:38:24 <arseniiv> does reloading it help?
18:38:31 <fizzie> Well, I found a sign saying "<- civilization", I guess that's promising.
18:40:14 <fizzie> Also another street sign saying "Gregor's water castle", so this was *definitely* the #esoteric-associated one.
18:40:26 <arseniiv> . o O ( and there is a portal right into Sid Meier’s Civilization )
18:45:20 <fizzie> Well, it has the same bug in a fresh newly created world, so I guess that's "fine".
18:46:59 <fizzie> https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-144107 maybe.
18:48:36 <fizzie> The Rwa Input -> OFF workaround seems to have worked.
18:58:18 <fizzie> Heh, the nether portal's translucent sheets are 90 degrees off. As in, if the portal frame is oriented like ----, the translucent sheets are ||. Looks pretty silly.
18:58:47 <fizzie> Also, the ladders no longer work.
18:59:08 <fizzie> We used to have alternating ladder/torch/ladder/torch and that was good enough for climbing, but apparently no longer.
18:59:47 <b_jonas> fizzie: play a human or elf character instead of a goblin or dwarf or halfling
18:59:53 <b_jonas> then you can reach the ladder
19:03:01 <fizzie> I just respawned.
19:03:18 <fizzie> But I've found the Libmarine Subrary, and the Subree, and Vorpal's place.
19:03:36 <fizzie> And some fish, which I'm pretty sure didn't exist back then.
19:03:53 <fizzie> And some minecart stuff that almost certainly no longer works.
19:04:30 <int-e> . o O ( But where's the Tomb of the Jabberwacky? )
19:04:40 <arseniiv> <fizzie> We used to have alternating ladder/torch/ladder/torch and that was good enough for climbing, but apparently no longer. => economical :D
19:05:23 <zzo38> I have a list such as [1 2 [[3] [4] [[5] [6]] [7]] 8 [9] 10 [[11]] [12 13]] and need to convert to binary format such that each element of the list is stored consecutively; numbers store themself, while if the element is another list, it consists of a pointer to the beginning of the sublist and the length of the sublist (numbers and sublist pointers have the same length).
19:05:45 <zzo38> Furthermore, it should be streamed, so that you do not have to go back and patch the data with the pointers.
19:05:53 <zzo38> Do you know how to do this properly?
19:06:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: how do you distinguish between a number and a list then?
19:06:37 <zzo38> b_jonas: The data type is also stored in each element. (There is the type, length, and value; the "length" field is not used for numbers.)
19:07:02 <zzo38> Actually, there is a description of the format here: http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/PostScript_binary_object_format
19:07:08 <b_jonas> ah
19:08:06 <zzo38> Ghostscript has an implementation; its algorithm uses streaming like I mentioned, but enters incorrect pointers when you write nested arrays like my example.
19:09:33 <b_jonas> j-bot: 1
19:09:33 <j-bot> b_jonas: 1
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19:13:01 <zzo38> Do you understand this?
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19:13:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, but I don't want to think of how to sovle it now
19:14:00 <zzo38> The file called Resource/Init/gs_btokn.ps contains the implementation that Ghostscript uses (except the implementation of .bosobject which is written in C)
19:24:37 <fizzie> Beta 1.5: "The player can no longer climb ladders spaced every other block."
19:24:50 <fizzie> Looks like it was older than I thought.
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20:03:01 <esowiki> [[TFNP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=73322 * Hakerh400 * (+6462) TFNP
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20:06:03 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/TFNP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=73323 * Hakerh400 * (+6462) TFNP
20:06:23 <esowiki> [[TFNP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73324&oldid=73322 * Hakerh400 * (-6462) Blanked the page
20:07:26 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73325&oldid=73306 * Hakerh400 * (+37) /* Articles */ TFNP
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20:19:59 <arseniiv> suppose we know z0, w0, z1 = r z0 + s, w1 = r w1 + s all complex, and we want to find r, s more or less accurately using floating point. I take r = (z1 − w1) / (z0 − w0), this seems to be the only way, but with s, it seems s = ((z1 + w1) − r (z0 + w0)) / 2 should be a tad more accurate than z1 − r z0 (or w1 − r w0). Is that founded?
20:21:08 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/TFNP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73326&oldid=73323 * Hakerh400 * (-22) Fix typos
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20:51:43 <fizzie> The fungot outage is due to http://ix.io/2orY which doesn't sound great.
20:53:54 <esowiki> [[Treeng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=73327&oldid=69371 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9)
21:14:03 <imode> that ain't good.
21:14:23 <imode> hard drive failure looks like.
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21:20:13 <zzo38> I thought of one idea (which I will try a bit later), which is to make a temporary dictionary to record the offset of each array while they are being counted, or to store the offset in the operand stack together with the arrays. However, then it might fail if there are multiple references to the same array, unless I compensate for that too, by checking if the offset has already been recorded, and to skip if it has already been written.
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21:29:20 <zzo38> (I don't know if it will work anyways; I have not tried it.)
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22:26:55 <fizzie> "[sde] 0 4096-byte logical blocks: (0 B/0 B)"
22:27:00 <fizzie> That's a very small drive.
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22:35:33 <imode> ruh roh
22:37:16 <fizzie> At least once I'd like to be retiring a hard drive in a way that I could just run scrub on it, instead of my usual half-assed data recovery mitigations (disassemble the drive, break the circuit board, use a metal file to scrub the platters, throw them away one by one in separate garbage bags).
22:45:40 <int-e> that's no fun
22:46:44 <zzo38> The method I described using the temporary dictionary seems to be working.
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22:50:51 <fizzie> Another odd thing is, I've got in my backup script a thing that checks (via D-Bus) that org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.IdleHint is true, and .IdleSinceHint >= 2 hours. It used to work, but now it's started to consider the system to be never idle, and I have no idea how that value gets derived.
22:55:11 <fizzie> (All I know is it's systemd-logind that's providing that service, somehow.)
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23:14:37 <fizzie> Ohh, I think I figured it out. Amazing.
23:23:29 <int-e> mm
23:34:27 <fizzie> For the record: I have a hotkey for a "terminal with a screen in it", and that somehow had a leftover from a previous login session started from within it. Or something along those lines. At least previously D-Bus introspection was showing a leftover "non-idle" session in "closing" state, now it's gone.
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