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02:07:48 <kmc> also I was reading about formats for representing binary data on 7-bit paper tape, for EPROM programmers and such
02:07:51 <kmc> > In BNPF encoding, a single byte (8 bits) would be represented by a highly redundant character framing sequence starting with a single ASCII "B", eight ASCII characters where a "0" would be represented by a "N" and a "1" would be represented by a "P", followed by an ending ASCII "F". These ten-character ASCII sequences were separated by one or more whitespace characters, therefore using at least eleven
02:07:53 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:17: error: <hint>:1:17: error: parse error on input ‘,’
02:07:57 <kmc> ASCII characters for each byte stored (9% efficiency). The ASCII "N" and "P" characters differ in four bit positions, providing excellent protection from single punch errors.
02:08:00 <kmc> it's kind of shocking that people put up with such inefficiency
02:08:41 <kmc> but I guess paper is cheap, and the error detection is important (mis-punches being relatively common) and a simple sparse encoding is much simpler to implement than a CRC or whatever
02:08:52 <NotApplicable> you know, you could just store everything with whatever that 5 bit system used
02:09:21 <kmc> and yeah, it would be compatible with Baudot/ITA2 so you could even send ROM images over Telex, although I'm not sure if this was commonly done
02:09:28 <kmc> plus such systems eventually moved to ASCII anyway
02:09:51 <kmc> and the BNPF encodings were replaced by denser ones like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HEX
02:10:04 <kmc> which is still commonly encountered today
02:11:35 <kmc> `` objcopy -O ihex /bin/ls /dev/stdout
02:12:07 <HackEso> :1002A8002F6C696236342F6C642D6C696E75782DED. \ :0C02B8007838362D36342E736F2E32004D. \ :1002C400040000001000000001000000474E55002B. \ :1002D4000000000003000000020000000000000015. \ :1002E400040000001400000003000000474E550005. \ :1002F400A65F86CD6394E8F583C14D786D13B3BCD6. \ :04030400BE051B8790. \ :10030800110000006F00000002000000070000005C. \ :10031800A6A148041201AE3E28DC11132800009063. \ :100328006F00000000000000700000007100000075. \ :10033
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02:33:30 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:GeorgeEpicGen]]": Author request: user requesting deletion of their own userpage
02:56:59 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tomhe * New user account
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03:18:38 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80489&oldid=80477 * Tomhe * (+271) /* Introductions */ it's me ..tom(ario)
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03:29:34 <esowiki> [[User:Tomhe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80490 * Tomhe * (+258) About me, init
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05:16:26 <esowiki> [[Naz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80491&oldid=70453 * Quintopia * (+292) finish FSAness proof
05:16:44 <HackEso> total 260 \ drwxr-xr-x 7 1000 1000 4096 Dec 31 2019 asmbf-1.2.7 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 103 Nov 12 2019 banana.txt \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1000 17296 Nov 18 2019 bfi \ -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 3315 Aug 9 00:39 compiled_brachylog.pl \ drwxr-xr-x 10 1000 1000 4096 Feb 20 2020 egel-master \ drwxr-xr-x 3 1000 1000 4096 Feb 21 2020 egel-scripts \ -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 145944 Feb 20 2020 egel.zip \ -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 3399
05:17:38 <HackEso> Bananas taste good and have potassium, but they bruise kinda easily. I still like to eat them though :)
05:18:43 <esowiki> [[Naz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80492&oldid=80491 * Quintopia * (-292) Undo revision 80491 by [[Special:Contributions/Quintopia|Quintopia]] ([[User talk:Quintopia|talk]])
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06:22:38 <zzo38> How to properly clean the computer keyboard?
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06:26:32 <nakilon> fungot tell him how to clean the keyboard
06:26:32 <fungot> nakilon: do the gnu servers also lag for regular accounts ( not only sparc)" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord
06:27:31 <nakilon> kmc is that your bot? is it protected from fork bomb and stuff?
06:30:40 <kmc> it's not my bot. I forget who maintains it these days
06:31:51 <kmc> it uses User Mode Linux for sandboxing
06:32:32 <kmc> not sure what it has in the way of resource limits
06:34:00 <nakilon> `` mv banana.txt _banana.txt
06:34:07 <HackEso> head: cannot open 'banana.txt' for reading: No such file or directory
06:34:34 <nakilon> `` mv _banana.txt banana.txt
06:34:54 <nakilon> someone may steal his banana
06:35:12 <kmc> https://github.com/GregorR/umlbox
06:37:13 <HackEso> No LSB modules are available. \ Distributor ID:Debian \ Description:Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) \ Release:10 \ Codename:buster
06:38:08 <HackEso> uname: extra operand ‘–r’ \ Try 'uname --help' for more information.
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08:18:58 <esowiki> [[Mirror-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80493&oldid=80485 * ReplayShells * (+0)
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10:42:02 <esowiki> [[Unfair]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80494 * Gilbert189 * (+6323) Created page with "Unfair is an esolang, based on a game about counting numbers "unfairly". The esolang is made by [[User:Gilbert189]] (but not the game). ==How to play Unfair== A player has a c..."
10:49:42 <fizzie> nakilon: https://esolangs.org/wiki/HackEso
10:50:26 <nakilon> > HackEso is a reincarnation of a bot called HackEgo.
10:50:28 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:28: error: <hint>:1:28: error: parse error on input ‘of’
10:51:15 <nakilon> I just wanted to say that with an ability to permanently move files in it it's probably gonna have to be reincarnated again some day )
10:52:11 <nakilon> ah ok, it says they cared about it
10:52:44 <fizzie> The persisted files that matter are in a version control system. Since somewhat recently, the current directory's been made the non-VC'd persistent one, though, to reduce noisy commits a little.
10:55:33 <nakilon> can this bot install and run gems?
10:56:15 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: ruby: command not found
11:00:40 <nakilon> `` curl https://api.my-ip.io/ip
11:00:42 <HackEso> Sorry, HackEgo's sandbox currently has no web access. However, see `? `fetch
11:00:56 <HackEso> `fetch [<output-file>] <URL> downloads files, and is the only web access currently available in HackEso. It is a special builtin that cannot be called from other commands. See also `edit.
11:01:37 <HackEso> `edit <file> gives you a url, then in your browser: (1) Press Sync (unless making a new file) (2) Make your changes (3) Press Save (4) Paste the command line at the top into the channel.
11:02:43 <esowiki> [[Alphamation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80495 * ReplayShells * (+338) Created page with "'''Alphamation''' is joke language. ==Examples== ===[[Hello, World!]]=== <pre> + </pre> ===[[Cat]]=== <pre> - </pre> ===[[Reverse cat]]=== <pre> @- </pre> ==Implementations=..."
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11:04:45 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80496&oldid=80470 * Gilbert189 * (+13) /* U */
11:05:22 <esowiki> [[User:ReplayShells]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80497&oldid=80484 * ReplayShells * (+40)
11:09:08 <fizzie> (That reminds me that `edit is still broken w.r.t. character encoding, should look into that.)
11:26:20 <esowiki> [[Betamation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80498 * ReplayShells * (+248) Created page with "'''Betamation''' is joke language. ==Examples== ===Hello,world!=== <pre> SS3 </pre> ==Implementations== *[https://github.com/ReplayShells/Esolangs/blob/master/TF.cs TF source..."
12:00:23 <nakilon> fizzie I don't understand what's the Lonux distro is there
12:02:37 <nakilon> I want to precompile a binary for it
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13:21:21 <nakilon> nevermind; the only way to compile RASEL as understand are either mruby or rubyc: mruby is less documented than how much I need to figure it out, rubyc compiles for half an hour and then says 2gb of ram isn't enough for that
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13:25:06 <arseniiv> it’s strange when a person you don’t have a clue about asks how are you :)
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13:35:40 <arseniiv> today is Whatareyouday it seems :)
13:36:26 <fungot> arseniiv: i'll keep that in mind. but the worst part being that it's not very hard
13:37:39 * nakilon is sad about not finding the way to execute RASEL in HackEso
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13:41:11 <NotApplicable> and youd think the hardest part would be making the translator stuff
13:42:22 <NotApplicable> anybody have any suggestions on making a parser for a c-style language?
13:43:14 <arseniiv> do you use a parser framework? It can make things lot easier
13:44:20 <NotApplicable> but the problem is that i don't know enough of "big-boy" languages to make my own compiled lanuage
13:44:49 <NotApplicable> so im writing it in quickbasic, which I dont think has a prebuilt parser framework
13:45:43 <nakilon> look for such frameworks in other versions of BASIC
13:45:48 <arseniiv> I would think it would be harder, not easier, with quickbasic
13:46:00 <nakilon> maybe there is something for Visual Basic
13:46:17 <arseniiv> yep maybe freebasic has something, it should be more modern IIRC
13:47:52 <arseniiv> also you might consider compiling into another language like C, or using stuff like LLVM, so optimization and machine code are done for you by a thing which is proven to work decently
13:48:28 <arseniiv> so you’ll be left with sole semantics of your language
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13:49:50 <NotApplicable> i already have the compiler portion written for the most part
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14:44:54 <nakilon> fizzie what's the `fetch size limit?
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14:49:15 <HackEso> 392) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur.
14:49:23 <int-e> NotApplicable: not applicable
14:50:04 <int-e> (the `fetch command does http(s))
14:52:05 <int-e> nakilon: I suspect it doesn't impose a limit... but probably a timeout
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14:53:52 <int-e> NotApplicable: I meant no offense.
14:55:31 <int-e> ah, that was untimely
14:57:57 <nakilon> int-e can't be, it's 1gbit storage
14:58:34 <nakilon> I wonder what's the exact limit so I would know if I'm able to shrink the file enough
15:00:15 <int-e> oh hmm. https://github.com/fis/hackbot/blob/master/multibot_cmds/lib/fetch#L41
15:00:56 <HackEso> \ 7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21 \ p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=en_NZ.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,1 CPU QEMU Virtual CPU version 2.1.3 (623),ASM) \ \ Usage: 7z <command> [<switches>...] <archive_name> [<file_names>...] \ [<@listfiles...>] \ \ <Commands> \ a : Add files to archive \ b : Benchmark \ d : Delete files from archive \ e : Extract files from archive (without using direc
15:01:33 <NotApplicable> so you could try putting it in a 7zip file (or .tar.gz if needed) and then `fetch` it
15:01:41 <nakilon> I can split it in chunks though ..D
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15:39:16 <b_jonas> "<zzo38> Were alphabetic orders made up by numerology?" => I don't really know. I suspect that the order came first and the numeric values got assigned a bit later, which is why rho, sigma, tau have lower numeric values than the corresponding letters have in hebrew and arabic gemmatria. but that's just my guess, I don't know the history.
15:45:21 <b_jonas> kmc: the greek, hebrew, and arabic alphabets have traditional numeric values assigned to the letters. in addition, Braille only has 64 possible character cells, so the digits 1234567890 are represented by the same as the letters ABCDEFGHIJ, typically with a numeric prefix before an entire number (which may have more than one digit).
15:50:27 <b_jonas> "<zzo38> How to properly clean the computer keyboard?" => depends on whether it's a mechanical keyboard or not. mechanical keyboards have removable keys but the base is sensitive to water. pop off all the keycaps, clean the keycaps wet (eg. with detergent and sponge) and dry them completely before reattaching (this is fiddly, the water likes to stay in their concave parts, so you may need to
15:50:33 <b_jonas> individually remove water droplets with a paper towel from crevices after drying most of it in just air). dust the rest of the keyboard carefully, ideally dry (I guess you could try isopropil-alcohol solution for worse stains, but have it dry for a long enough time before you connect power).
15:53:55 <b_jonas> for non-mechanical keyboards, the keycaps typically aren't reattachable (though I think there are non-mechanical keyboards where they are), but they tolerate water somewhat more. for these, get some of the crumbs out by holding the keyboard on each side and hitting it on your palm (this is fast but doesn't get everything out); then remove the dust and crumbs by poking between the keys with whatever you
15:54:01 <b_jonas> like, I've used cut parts of plastic sheets, bent paperclips, stick notes, my father uses a brush; clean the keycaps and exposed plastic surfaces with commercial keyboard cleaning foam and paper towels.
15:54:19 <b_jonas> in any case, cleaning a keyboard can be fiddly and take a lot of time.
15:56:46 <b_jonas> "<NotApplicable> anybody have any suggestions on making a parser for a c-style language?" => if you have freedom to choose the syntax that you parse, then make it simple and unambiguous, without the stupid complications that most languages have, even when this comes at expense of slightly more verbose syntax. you'll thank yourself when you write the parser. but sometimes you want to parse an existing
15:56:52 <b_jonas> language, which can sometimes suck.
15:58:23 <NotApplicable> b_jonas: ya i made everything simple like `if(?condition, { do this; });
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15:58:38 <b_jonas> "<NotApplicable> so im writing it in quickbasic, which I dont think has a prebuilt parser framework" => you can probably port a yacc even to quickbasic. I recommend ais523's ayacc for this.
15:59:53 <b_jonas> note that there are two unrelated yacc versions called ayacc: I mean ais523's, which you can get from ( darcs pull "http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc" )
16:00:59 <b_jonas> but you can also hand-roll a parser if you prefer
16:01:59 <nakilon> actually I'll postpone the fetch because seems like jruby wrongly interpretes rasel.rb
16:02:19 <b_jonas> that said, I can only help with the parser, I have no idea how to write a usable native code generator for a compiler. I should probably try to write one once, just as a learning experience, but I haven't written one yet. I only wrote interpreters.
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16:20:15 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80499&oldid=80396 * Tetrapyronia * (+541) Added Unfair
16:20:50 <esowiki> [[User:Tetrapyronia]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80500&oldid=80397 * Tetrapyronia * (+13)
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16:24:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tsukibadcoder * New user account
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17:38:59 <fizzie> nakilon: int-e: 10MiB.
17:39:11 <fizzie> (Imposed via setrlimit.)
17:50:33 <int-e> fizzie: so the github repo is current enough :)
17:52:12 <fizzie> It's not like there's any, you know, development, going on.
17:53:07 <int-e> sure. hackeso is perfection :P
17:54:09 <int-e> close enough really-we hardly ever complain about it
17:55:57 <kmc> `` uname -a
17:55:58 <HackEso> Linux (none) 4.9.82 #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux
17:58:30 <fizzie> I had a lot of trouble with the UML build at one point when trying to upgrade, I feel like it's a bit of a niche thing.
17:59:04 <fizzie> (But it did eventually get better.)
18:01:38 <kmc> yeah, I think UML is pretty niche these days
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19:18:51 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80501&oldid=80488 * Not applicable * (-116)
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20:21:00 <esowiki> [[Naz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80502&oldid=80492 * Quintopia * (+1113) BSM proof
20:21:29 <esowiki> [[Naz]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80503&oldid=80502 * Quintopia * (+0) typo
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21:30:29 <uignrsglks> When creating an account on the wiki with a lowercase username, I get the message "Your username will be adjusted to "[capitalized username]" due to technical restrictions." Is this a new restriction?
21:32:17 <zzo38> That is a feature of MediaWiki; the first character must be uppercase.
21:35:17 <uignrsglks> Is there a way to see only user messages in the logs (e.g. https://esolangs.org/logs/2021-01.html), i.e. filter out join/quit/esowiki messages?
21:35:30 <uignrsglks> It's a bit hard to read with all of those.
21:36:56 <zzo38> Messages matching the regular expression /:HackEgo![^ ]* PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[wiki\]/i are the wiki messages, and JOIN and QUIT messages lack PRIVMSG. If you access the raw logs then you can use grep to filter out the lines that you don't want.
21:38:11 <zzo38> (At least, it is what I do; there may be other better ways.)
21:38:57 <uignrsglks> Thanks, I'll try that. Do you use curl/wget and output to a file on your computer or something like that?
21:41:38 <uignrsglks> Also, is there an advantage to processing the raw files rather than the text files?
21:42:08 <zzo38> I do use curl, yes.
21:42:09 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80504&oldid=80501 * Not applicable * (+368)
21:44:18 <zzo38> I don't know if there is an advantage to processing the raw files rather than the text files, but it is what I have used.
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22:08:04 <esowiki> [[C Plus Minus Plus Minus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80505 * SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont * (+1729) Created page with "== C == An esoteric language created by [[User:SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont]] that has only 1 operation: NAND == Syntax == The program is divided into "functions" t..."
22:09:08 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80506&oldid=80496 * SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont * (+30) /* C */ C
22:11:42 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80507&oldid=80506 * SoYouWantMeToDoSomethingButIWont * (+6) /* C */ Change display text of C link
22:34:01 <fizzie> There's no customization support in the formatting of the HTML versions, though we *could* easily add a class to the div so that your user stylesheets could more easily tweak the presentation.
22:34:41 <uignrsglks> I think it would help people follow conversations in the logs more easily.
22:34:58 <fizzie> I imagine with a sufficiently clever selector, you could already hide all lines that contain a <span class="x"> in them, which is what those -!- lines use.
22:36:30 <uignrsglks> Maybe adding a checkbox for "show server messages" and one for "show esowiki messages", or something like that.
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22:39:43 <fizzie> I think I'd likely just do it as URL parameters to start with. But don't hold your breath, and if you really want to see it happen, consider adding it to https://github.com/fis/esolangs/issues as a feature request so that it's written down somewhere.
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22:59:33 <uignrsglks> fizzie In the meantime, I wrote my own little reader :)
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23:04:11 <fizzie> Fair enough. Just for the record, all three formats (HTML, plain text, "raw") are actually rendered on the fly from the *real* even-raw-er (or, depending on your point of view, more cooked) files, which I thought about also having an endpoint for, but didn't.
23:07:15 <uignrsglks> I see. What does the raw-er file look like?
23:09:24 <oerjan> <int-e> oerjan: Oh I do remember. I wanted someone who knows the ins and outs of the Blitzengard family, at the time. <-- i'm binging. was it related to the muse disputing martellus' claim as storm king?
23:09:51 <oerjan> what i remember is tarvek mentioning being heir through his _mother_.
23:10:45 <oerjan> but i sort of presume martellus is related through his _father_, because grandma is referred to once as "sturmvoraus", tarvek's surname.
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23:25:00 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80508&oldid=80476 * Digital Hunter * (+92) /* Infinite loop */
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23:42:27 <arseniiv> I generated some fake Russian words (orthography-wise). I was going to experiment with temperature in Markov chains but for now that was just a plain one, using 4-letter and 3-letter contexts. My idea is to make distributions for n-letter contexts AXYZ, BXYZ, CXYZ, … more uniform based on a distribution for a context XYZ
23:44:46 <arseniiv> hm it’s not wholly a temperature, it seems like some co-temperature in a way. Real temperature, if I get it right, should just uniformize a distribution independently for every context, making frequencies of the output letters more uniform, not making context-dependence more uniform
23:50:01 <arseniiv> in a way, with my idea one should get fractional context length. For example if we re-weight distribution this way:
23:50:01 <arseniiv> P(cXYZ|W) := α P(cXYZ|W) + (1 − α) P(XYZ|W),
23:50:01 <arseniiv> then instead of 4-letter contexts (AXYZ, …) we get (3 + α)-letter contexts! Or at least for α ∈ {0, 1} that’s genuinely so, and we have a right to think this to behave linearly
23:50:30 <arseniiv> damn, I wrote all probabilities the wrong way
23:50:54 <arseniiv> that should be P(W|cXYZ) := α P(W|cXYZ) + (1 − α) P(W|XYZ)
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23:56:53 <arseniiv> though I shouldn’t be so happy with it: in general, there is an α for each context length but 0, and how all of these α’s should relate to this hypothetical fractional context length isn’t obvious to me
23:57:54 <arseniiv> so, for the traditional inquiry — do you like this?
23:58:08 <HackEso> This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. Nobody likes this.
23:59:03 <arseniiv> ah, I forgot to share those fake words