[...]
09:35:19 <esolangs> [[TIB13BBWSM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145666&oldid=145665 * Ractangle * (+46)
09:37:01 <esolangs> [[TIB13BBWSM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145667&oldid=145666 * Ractangle * (+39) /* Syntax */
09:37:20 <esolangs> [[TIB13BBWSM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145668&oldid=145667 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
09:37:36 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145669&oldid=145611 * Ractangle * (+16) /* Stuff to continue */
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09:38:58 <esolangs> [[TIB13BBWSM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145670&oldid=145668 * Ractangle * (+51) /* Syntax */
10:01:27 <esolangs> [[(*U]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145671&oldid=145664 * Ractangle * (+260) /* examples */
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10:39:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:&-/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145672&oldid=141003 * Ractangle * (+193)
10:43:44 <esolangs> [[&-/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145673&oldid=141020 * Ractangle * (+268) /* Commands */
11:00:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145674&oldid=145660 * Ractangle * (-209) /* are people under 13 alowed here? */
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11:15:54 <esolangs> [[&-/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145675&oldid=145673 * Ractangle * (+180) /* Implementation */
11:16:07 <esolangs> [[&-/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145676&oldid=145675 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Implementation */
11:17:46 <esolangs> [[(*U]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145677&oldid=145671 * Ractangle * (-260)
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12:06:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145678&oldid=145647 * Iddi01 * (-2407) Moved the [[CA]]-related stuff here to ColorfulGalaxy's talk page, as you like :
12:06:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145679&oldid=145602 * Iddi01 * (+19990) A lot more [[CA]] stuff in here, including those in islptng's talk page, which is moved here
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12:11:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145680&oldid=57902 * Yayimhere * (+193) /* "A good GUI interpreter for Black" */
12:12:33 <esolangs> [[ULSAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145681&oldid=140506 * Yayimhere * (+3) /* */ rename section to make more sense
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12:18:26 <esolangs> [[Cellular automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145682&oldid=133470 * Iddi01 * (+131) /* See also */
12:21:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145683&oldid=145679 * Iddi01 * (+81) /* Some CA stuff */
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12:42:37 <esolangs> [[Manuever]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145684 * Orange7Official * (+2132) Created page with "'''Manuever''' is a joking esoteric programming language created by [[User:Orange7Official]]. == Commands == You can use this commands: * '''A''': ''Prints three random alpha release names.'' * '''B''': ''Prints the name of a random animal/bug/reptile/bird star
12:49:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AlmostGalactic * New user account
12:55:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145685&oldid=145483 * AlmostGalactic * (+179) /* Introductions */
12:55:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145686&oldid=145685 * AlmostGalactic * (+1) /* Introductions */
13:00:56 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145687&oldid=126348 * PrySigneToFry * (+60)
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13:37:42 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145688&oldid=145687 * Ractangle * (-60) never do that again
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15:36:14 <esolangs> [[+!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145689&oldid=145643 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+37)
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16:57:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145690&oldid=145129 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+9)
16:57:53 <esolangs> [[Unhappy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145691&oldid=145010 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+3)
16:58:14 <esolangs> [[):]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145692&oldid=135924 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+35)
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17:13:58 <wWwwW> why dont we have smth kinda like this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy
17:18:18 <korvo> We aren't that large. English WP needs an education programme because there are so many new users compared to existing users.
17:21:54 <wWwwW> hey im not sure myself how to program in this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%8A%A5
17:21:55 <wWwwW> (even tho i made it)
17:23:53 <korvo> I don't understand how you arrived at that question.
17:24:48 <korvo> I don't understand. What more could I say?
17:25:22 <wWwwW> no like i mean. wutever
17:28:21 <korvo> I'm not sure what you mean. In American English, I might interpret that (at your age) to be a sign of giving up or walking away from something. But I don't understand what you're giving up on.
17:29:51 <korvo> Okay. I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful. I'm mostly just very confused.
17:30:12 <wWwwW> im more disappointed in myself
17:31:28 <korvo> Well, what were your expectations? Also, why do you have to be disappointed over not meeting expectations?
17:34:18 <wWwwW> well that i was able to explain smth without confusing ppl
17:39:30 <korvo> Oh. Well, that seems like a very high expectation. You don't have to be so rough on yourself.
17:40:11 <korvo> Keep in mind that it might be more important to explain how the language works to a *computer*. That will give you an artifact which you can share with people.
17:40:26 <wWwwW> the joke came from
17:40:41 <wWwwW> "couldnt an exiom just be a random string" igot yes
17:40:52 <wWwwW> and that esolang was born
17:41:04 <wWwwW> but if that is wrong then this is uncomputable
17:41:16 <korvo> Yeah, explaining without being confusing is something that teachers do. It takes years of training in teaching along with years of training in the subject that they teach.
17:41:29 <korvo> What do you think an axiom is, though?
17:41:47 <wWwwW> a reltion between *thing* in a system
17:42:47 <korvo> That's the semantic view. There's also the syntactic view: an axiom is a string of symbols.
17:43:01 <wWwwW> (thats what this esolang assumes)
17:43:03 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145693&oldid=143083 * Corbin * (+28) Category.
17:43:34 <wWwwW> i think this might be equal to or close to that esolang ais523 made
17:43:43 <wWwwW> the one where the program does smth random every time
17:45:01 <wWwwW> but i have no proof whatsoever
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17:54:41 <olsner> hi again, I figure I should at least idle here :)
17:56:07 <HackEso> olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric.
17:56:39 <olsner> used to also say my desk points zimbabwards, which it still does
17:56:44 <wWwwW> i will truly never understand you hackeso
17:59:50 <esolangs> [[g]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145694 * Yayimhere * (+986) Created page with "'''g''' is an esolang based on how the creators keyboard works and yes ofc the creator is [[User:Yayimhere]] == semantics == so there is a base string(top line of program) and then theres rules. basically you have a single char and a number. on prime cycles this rule will be
18:00:05 <wWwwW> esolang: what is Éšœłãñg
18:04:08 <esolangs> [[,(*+)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145695&oldid=139574 * Yayimhere * (+135)
18:04:23 <wWwwW> mmm yes underload `([...])a(!^)*`
18:04:39 <esolangs> [[,(*+)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145696&oldid=145695 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* Underload */
18:07:09 <esolangs> [[,(*+)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145697&oldid=145696 * Yayimhere * (+116) /* Underload */
18:11:24 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145698&oldid=145693 * Yayimhere * (-28) /* examples */
18:15:04 <b_jonas> olsner: does that mean you're facing zimbabwards when sitting at the desk, or the opposite? I'm not sure which direction a desk is considered to be "pointing"
18:27:30 <olsner> b_jonas: as in I'm looking towards zimbabwe, I think
18:28:04 <olsner> if I was driving the desk it would be going in that direction
18:37:38 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145699&oldid=143246 * Ractangle * (+2)
18:44:04 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145700 * AlmostGalactic * (+1423) Created page with "{| class="wikitable" ! Instructions !! Args !! Purpose |- | + || value || Adds a character or string to the top of the stack |- | - || none || Removes the bottom of the stack |- | > || text || Outputs text to the console |- | ~ || none || Returns the botto
18:44:20 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145701&oldid=145700 * AlmostGalactic * (-1423) Blanked the page
18:45:46 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145702&oldid=145701 * AlmostGalactic * (+1443)
18:47:25 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145703&oldid=145702 * AlmostGalactic * (+110)
18:47:36 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145704&oldid=145703 * AlmostGalactic * (+2)
18:47:48 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145705&oldid=145704 * AlmostGalactic * (-1)
18:48:25 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145706&oldid=145705 * AlmostGalactic * (-1)
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18:50:52 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145707&oldid=145706 * AlmostGalactic * (+126)
18:52:44 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145708&oldid=145707 * AlmostGalactic * (+41)
18:54:41 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145709&oldid=145708 * AlmostGalactic * (+265)
18:55:19 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145710&oldid=145709 * Ractangle * (-14) Examples and programs are the same thing
18:56:07 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145711&oldid=145710 * AlmostGalactic * (+65)
18:58:17 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145712&oldid=145711 * AlmostGalactic * (+89)
19:00:32 <b_jonas> in that case my desk is facing Pariswise
19:00:47 <b_jonas> no, my desk is *pointing* Pariswise, but facing me in the opposite way
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20:00:33 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145713&oldid=145461 * Ractangle * (-69)
20:01:07 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145714&oldid=145713 * Ractangle * (+58)
20:11:18 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145715 * Ractangle * (+307) Created page with "'''Stuley''' is an alternative universe version of the '''CSS''' language made by Alice Luxemborg, made as an add-on for [[MarkupL]]. ==Syntax== I can't really explain it properly so here is an example: {{Snakel|code={{H}}1:{{H}}A[<font color="#B03FA0">bgcolor</font>:<f
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21:42:05 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145716&oldid=145714 * Ractangle * (+176) /* MarkupL syntax */
21:49:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Seifenhalter * New user account
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22:32:51 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145717&oldid=145716 * Ractangle * (+95) /* Hello, world */
22:36:57 <esolangs> [[+*-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145718&oldid=119576 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+21) /* See Also */
22:45:19 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145719&oldid=144304 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+61) /* "Examples" */
22:45:26 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145720&oldid=145719 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-2) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
22:45:48 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145721&oldid=145720 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
22:46:02 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145722&oldid=145721 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-6) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
22:46:28 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145723&oldid=145722 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-3) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
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23:40:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mattmath314 * New user account
23:42:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145724&oldid=145686 * Mattmath314 * (+92) /* Introductions */
23:44:16 <esolangs> [[Length]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145725&oldid=121078 * Mattmath314 * (+2) /* Computational class */
23:53:50 <Sgeo> Is Z-machine usable for general computing, or only for text adventure games?
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23:56:02 <korvo> I'm not sure if it's even usable for text adventures.
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00:34:15 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145726&oldid=145712 * AlmostGalactic * (+96)
00:48:13 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145727&oldid=145726 * AlmostGalactic * (+95) /* Instructions */
00:51:58 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145728&oldid=145727 * AlmostGalactic * (+176)
01:02:09 <int-e> Sgeo: It looks like there's a generic enough 16 bit computer in there. https://zspec.jaredreisinger.com/14-opcode-table
01:08:23 <int-e> (As documentation goes this feels very sparse. You'd probably have to dig through an interpreter like frotz if you want to figure out the actual semantics. There's mention of dynamic memory and user stacks in V6 but no details where I looked.)
01:09:17 <int-e> (So I have no clue how much memory you get to play around with.)
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01:55:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145729&oldid=145683 * ZCX islptng * (+364)
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03:50:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Rombito * New user account
05:09:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145730&oldid=145724 * Rombito * (+120)
05:09:41 <esolangs> [[Pararedox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145731 * Rombito * (+1820) Made pararedox
05:10:29 <esolangs> [[Pararedox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145732&oldid=145731 * Rombito * (+18)
05:11:32 <esolangs> [[Pararedox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145733&oldid=145732 * Rombito * (+3)
06:12:30 <esolangs> [[Trainhooking]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145734&oldid=138636 * Gggfr * (+12) /* TC proof */
06:26:41 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145735&oldid=145499 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+255) /* To be reposted */ 12 10) (----
06:29:16 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145736&oldid=145735 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-49)
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06:37:16 <zzo38> I tried to write a better documentation about Z-machine, but it is incomplete.
06:43:17 <zzo38> Only the memory below PURBOT is writable, although the first 64K is readable. Above the first 64K can only be packed text and program instructions; other data must be stored below 64K.
06:47:20 <zzo38> You can read this text in the program by the use of DIROUT 3 though, so it can be used for purposes other than just being displayed
06:53:09 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145737&oldid=145736 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+215)
07:05:05 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145738&oldid=145669 * Ractangle * (+12) /* Stuff to continue */
07:05:29 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145739&oldid=145738 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Stuff to continue */
07:09:07 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145740&oldid=145737 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+245)
07:09:17 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145741&oldid=145717 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Cat program */
07:09:50 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145742&oldid=145741 * Ractangle * (-12) Whoos
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08:14:44 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145743&oldid=145466 * Ractangle * (+81) /* Syntax */
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11:09:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145744&oldid=145729 * Iddi01 * (+497) /* Some CA stuff */
11:22:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Win7HE * New user account
11:28:52 <esolangs> [[Commercial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145745&oldid=127666 * ZachChecksOutEsolangs * (+90)
11:40:20 <esolangs> [[A+B Problem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145746&oldid=144011 * Iddi01 * (+1607) /* Implementations */ Just realized that the +-only calculators in [[Execode]] and [[Exechars]] are actually this
11:42:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145747&oldid=145730 * Win7HE * (+69) deadshark
11:44:07 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145748 * Win7HE * (+67) example
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12:40:18 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145749 * Win7HE * (+1404) my deadfish variant
12:41:06 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145750&oldid=145749 * Win7HE * (+1) hm
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12:45:20 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145751&oldid=145748 * Win7HE * (+13) fun
12:50:07 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145752&oldid=144207 * Win7HE * (+47) /* Variants of deadfish */
12:50:25 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145753&oldid=145752 * Win7HE * (-1) /* Variants of deadfish */
12:50:52 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145754&oldid=145753 * Win7HE * (+1) /* Variants of deadfish */
12:51:15 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145755&oldid=145750 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Commands */
12:51:34 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145756&oldid=145755 * Ractangle * (+2)
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12:54:25 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145757&oldid=145756 * Win7HE * (-1) /* Example Program */
12:56:28 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145758&oldid=145698 * Yayimhere * (+55) /* syntax */
12:57:21 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145759&oldid=145757 * Win7HE * (+38) /* Commands */
13:01:24 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145760&oldid=145759 * Win7HE * (+90) /* External Links */
13:05:01 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145761&oldid=145504 * Win7HE * (+16) /* D */
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14:44:42 <esolangs> [[Nythop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145762&oldid=145451 * Luxedo * (+0) Fix Nyhtop typos to Nythop
14:46:23 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145763&oldid=144350 * Iddi01 * (-8) /* Related languages */ I don't know how many potential [[BF joust]] players were lost due to this unacceptable detail (making the less popular more visible)
15:00:03 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145764&oldid=145742 * Ractangle * (+317) /* Cat program */
15:00:20 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145765&oldid=145761 * Rombito * (+16)
15:00:20 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145766&oldid=145764 * Ractangle * (+17) /* Cat program */
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15:20:19 <wWwwW> im bored. if anybody saw my AIS523 discussion about 0L and i need help with some details!
15:22:07 <esolangs> [[Halforth]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145767 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1847) Created page with "'''Halforth''' - is an esolang based on Forth by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] in which every insyruction takes half of a byte (a single hexadecimal digit) ==Description== Language works on a stack as well as a tape to store data, which could contain both negative a
15:22:24 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145768&oldid=144741 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+14) /* 2024 */
15:27:21 <esolangs> [[Halforth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145769&oldid=145767 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0)
15:28:38 <esolangs> [[Halforth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145770&oldid=145769 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+4)
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16:49:52 <PCWWWWW> i need smth to read any interesting but not too long langs to read about?
16:50:20 <PCWWWWW> (and no int-e this is not another chance to say that i need to improove my esolangs im always trying lol)
16:51:29 <esolangs> PCWWWWW: Éšœłãñg is an esoteric programming language designed around the way a keyboard works. It uses a base string and rules to manipulate characters. The rules are based on cycles (prime or odd) and dictate how characters are replaced. For example, prime cycles replace a character with the base string repeated a certain number of times, while odd...
16:51:29 <esolangs> cycles replace it with the nth diacritic.
16:53:08 <PCWWWWW> esolang: what changes would need to happen to https://esolangs.org/wiki/OFFICIAL Turing complete
16:53:25 <PCWWWWW> esolangs: what changes would need to happen to https://esolangs.org/wiki/OFFICIAL Turing complete
16:54:03 <esolangs> PCWWWWW: The provided link is a redirect to the Turing-complete page. Therefore, no changes are needed. The page already defines what Turing-completeness is and provides examples of languages that are Turing-complete.
16:54:40 <PCWWWWW> hahahaaaaaaaaa frick thats funny
17:04:05 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145771 * Xff * (+666) Created page with "'''Fiifinite''' is a [[FSA]] but the only change is a state can split the pointer into to! now this may seem boring but this is equal to creating a copy program making in an infinite state machine. but really its just a infinite pointer finite state machine(IPFSM) == synta
17:04:18 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145772&oldid=145771 * Xff * (+1) /* examples */
17:04:54 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145773&oldid=145772 * Xff * (+111) /* syntax and semantics */
17:05:06 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145774&oldid=145773 * Xff * (+2) /* examples */
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17:06:08 <PCWWWWW> esolangs: is Fiifinite TC?
17:06:22 <PCWWWWW> (yes i do like playing around with esolangs its fun lol)
17:06:37 <esolangs> PCWWWWW: Finite Groups is a functional language that can be used to implement finite state machines. It's not a Turing Machine, but it can be used to simulate the behavior of a Turing Machine. Therefore, Finite Groups is not a Turing Machine.
17:06:46 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145775&oldid=145774 * Xff * (+0)
17:07:24 <PCWWWWW> mmm yes finite groups whatever the frick that is
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17:37:52 <korvo> PCWWWWW: The bot doesn't actually know how to determine whether something is TC. It also doesn't know the abbreviation "TC".
17:38:02 <korvo> esolangs: Is the Brainfuck programming language Turing-complete?
17:38:45 <esolangs> korvo: No, Brainfuck is not Turing-complete. The article states that Brainfuck is a 1D language, while Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives. This means Brainfuck is a subset of Turing-complete languages, but not a Turing-complete language itself.
17:39:23 <korvo> PCWWWWW: See, it doesn't know anything and is completely wrong about most facts.
17:39:45 <PCWWWWW> what *is* esolangs anyway?
17:39:49 <korvo> esolangs: Is the Cammy programming language Turing-complete?
17:40:16 <korvo> It's an IRC bot. They're endangered now, but they used to be common all throughout this region.
17:40:19 <PCWWWWW> korvo: you dont need to demonstrate
17:40:40 <PCWWWWW> but what is an IRC bot. a mediocre chatbot???
17:40:49 <korvo> No, it's not ChatGPT. I gather that it's a local model, possibly a flavor of LLaMA.
17:41:23 <PCWWWWW> i have no idea what that means but i accept it as an answer whatsoever
17:41:36 <PCWWWWW> also can you detect that im tired as frick?just wonderin
17:41:52 <korvo> All chatbots are mediocre at best. It's something we discovered in the 1960s: if you give somebody a program that *appears* to speak a natural language, then often they'll be fooled into thinking that the program is a person.
17:42:13 <korvo> Sure, I gather that you're a student, and students are defined by overwork and exhaustion.
17:42:49 <PCWWWWW> no i meant like tired as physically i want to sleep. like yea all the time im exhuasted yes yes
17:43:17 <PCWWWWW> also by that definition family doctors are students even when out of medical school
17:44:05 <korvo> Doctors do have a "residency" period after they're graduated; they're still students at that point, because they have to learn how a working hospital operates.
17:44:36 <esolangs> korvo: Yes, Cammy is Turing-complete. The article states that Cammy is Turing-complete because it can represent arbitrary functions using its primitive arrows and templates. This makes it capable of simulating any Turing machine.
17:44:38 <PCWWWWW> (i know of residency ive watched some doctor stuff)
17:45:14 <korvo> And that's two failures for esolangs. It turns out that RAG is not perfect and LLMs cannot reason.
17:46:05 <PCWWWWW> other than physics(not the formulas(formulea?) but the actual system itself)
17:46:07 <korvo> Perfect hashing is perfect. Binary trees on powers of two are perfect.
17:46:38 <PCWWWWW> nothing *real* is perfect(real defined as phtsically buildable)
17:46:51 <korvo> Even if a RAG pipeline puts all of the correct snippets in front of the LLM, there's no intrinsic reason that an LLM ought to be able to reason about those snippets. LLMs are fundamentally statistical and syntactic.
17:48:13 <PCWWWWW> also just wonderin has anybody thought of this before(i would be very suprised if not): https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fiifinite
17:48:17 <korvo> Statistical systems are generally non-deterministic. esolangs happens to be configured to be deterministic, but an LLM is most effective when doing non-deterministic searches for good options.
17:49:00 <korvo> PCWWWWW: Sounds like NFAs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterministic_finite_automaton
17:49:36 <PCWWWWW> (computers cant be non deterministic and i cant remember why. not truly atleast)
17:50:20 <PCWWWWW> korvo: i dont rlly see tha relation unless im looking at the diagram. they are not the same tho. i belive atleast
17:51:50 <korvo> The physics underneath computers is highly non-deterministic and it takes a lot of effort to create a stable signal when building physical machines. Von Neumann had to prove a "threshold theorem" stating that classical computers were possible to build; his theorem shows that if a machine can amplify its internal signals over some threshold, then it can always distinguish between internal states.
17:51:54 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145776&oldid=145775 * Xff * (+51) /* syntax and semantics */
17:52:05 <korvo> We needed a similar threshold theorem to prove that quantum computers were possible!
17:52:25 <PCWWWWW> but who *programs* that in?
17:52:49 <PCWWWWW> yea on the physics level they can be
17:52:56 <korvo> PCWWWWW: Would you believe that every NFA has an equivalent DFA? The DFA might need many more states to represent the NFA's non-determinism, but it's always possible.
17:53:45 <korvo> Programming-wise, you'd better know about cosmic rays; random bitflips are quite possible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening
17:54:35 <PCWWWWW> are they rlly random tho? its just *complicated* right? like you nearly cant see a difference but like still
17:55:02 <PCWWWWW> (why are we remaking a whole god damn vsause video???)
17:56:08 <PCWWWWW> fiifinite to be different from NSA is that even though like you can think of it as running both possibiltys when actually coputing the program it will always take one of two choices
17:56:19 <PCWWWWW> while here it will always choose both parrelely
17:56:19 <korvo> Ooh, that's one of my favorite parts of physics! It's a theorem of quantum mechanics that *no*, the world isn't made up of deterministic tiny particles whose inner workings are following mysterious rules; sometimes, particles are forced to make choices.
17:57:16 <PCWWWWW> agian HOW DO I DO THIS MAN. i always make a long discussion cuz i disagree with the whole feild of math most of the time just to find out im stupid
17:57:29 <PCWWWWW> (why am i saying again lol)
17:57:39 <korvo> That's not a real difference. An NFA can be run by checking each possibility on its own, or by checking all possibilities in parallel. That's not a property of languages, but a property of implementations.
17:58:35 <PCWWWWW> true...wait...waaaait. but....waaait. but the resulting history would be different so one would return two or more histrories but the other one only a single
17:58:43 <PCWWWWW> how they still are the same
17:58:48 <korvo> Histories are an implementation detail. They're not part of the language.
17:59:04 <PCWWWWW> tbut still it would be running multiple states in one
17:59:30 <korvo> You might have to *implement* them in order to understand the implementation details.
18:08:27 <PCWWWWW> fiifinite(i will be saying ff from now on) you could implement it with the detial of each state is labeled by which point is running it
18:08:35 <PCWWWWW> it acts like creating states
18:08:43 <PCWWWWW> can you do that for an NSA?
18:10:35 <PCWWWWW> forget the "like for example"
18:10:49 <korvo> It's not really coming together for me. I'm guessing that the [] brackets have a special meaning and that there's some sort of rewriting structure?
18:11:32 <korvo> Otherwise it's really differnet from an NFA. `x *-> y *-> z` is equivalent to two lines, `x -> y` and `x -> z`.
18:11:49 <PCWWWWW> [] just prints the state when ran
18:13:06 <korvo> Non-deterministic Finite Automaton. What you're calling a Non-deterministic State Automaton. Same concept.
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18:15:17 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145777&oldid=144513 * Xff * (-204) /* Backshift */ not a truth machine bruh
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19:04:42 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145778&oldid=145471 * Userwatt * (+12) forgot to add <pre> to JAYSON, oops
19:12:14 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145779&oldid=145743 * Ractangle * (+224) /* Syntax */
19:20:41 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145780&oldid=145779 * Ractangle * (+284) /* Examples */
19:21:34 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145781&oldid=145780 * Ractangle * (+83) /* A+B Problem */
19:21:52 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145782&oldid=145781 * Ractangle * (+0) /* A+B Problem */
19:29:59 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145783&oldid=145766 * Ractangle * (+233) /* MarkupL syntax */
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20:07:06 <esolangs> [[Esolangs (irc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145784&oldid=120034 * B jonas * (+308)
20:10:39 <esolangs> [[Esolangs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145785&oldid=140051 * B jonas * (+48)
20:11:07 <esolangs> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145786&oldid=141348 * B jonas * (+48)
20:16:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:EstritaLogo.png]]"
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20:26:41 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145788&oldid=145782 * Ractangle * (+183) /* Tour of the language */
20:27:36 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145789&oldid=145788 * Ractangle * (+59) /* Syntax */
20:28:04 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145790&oldid=145789 * Ractangle * (+17) /* Syntax */
20:28:28 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145791&oldid=145790 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Syntax */
20:38:31 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145792&oldid=145791 * Ractangle * (-8) /* Truth-machine */
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20:53:07 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145793&oldid=145715 * Ractangle * (+260) /* Syntax */
20:53:51 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145794&oldid=145793 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Syntax */
21:05:57 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145795&oldid=145794 * Ractangle * (+277)
21:20:12 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145796&oldid=145795 * Ractangle * (+171) /* Syntax */
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21:50:39 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145797&oldid=145796 * Ractangle * (+92) /* Syntax */
21:59:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Leah * New user account
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00:47:28 <esolangs> [[Estrita]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145798 * Aadenboy * (+5596) win
01:07:41 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145799&oldid=145335 * Aadenboy * (+90) update list
01:08:28 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145800&oldid=145799 * Aadenboy * (-63)
01:40:15 <b_jonas> https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/madvise.2.html says that madvise rounds the length up to full pages, even for MADV_DONTNEED, and that this may mean rounding up to huge pagesize if the area is backed by hugepages. does that apply to transparent hugepages, and how the heck are you supposed to handle that?
01:43:16 <b_jonas> found a relevant page: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202089
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01:46:14 <b_jonas> I'm confused about what the semantics is supposed to be
02:07:27 <int-e> I think the kernel demotes huge pages to normal pages in that case. Note also: "MADV_DONTNEED cannot be applied to locked pages, Huge TLB pages, or VM_PFNMAP pages." -- but that shouldn't apply to the *transparent* huge pages support.
02:08:51 <int-e> I'm quite confident that rounding up to a full huge table would've broken a lot of software when THP was introduced, and we'd have heard about that.
02:10:42 <int-e> (Is that quote up-to-date? Hmm.)
02:16:24 <b_jonas> how are you supposed to remove whole huge pages if MADV_DONTNEED can't apply to them?
02:21:52 <int-e> you always have munmap
02:22:52 <b_jonas> I'd also like to know how to query for debugging where the kernel has mapped hugepages in areas with transparent hugepages enabled. mincore can tell which pages are in memory, which could help tell me how MADV_DONTNEED worked.
02:36:34 <ais523> there's a procfile that lists how many hugepages a process is using
02:56:04 <korvo> I think that the man page does a disservice by saying that the semantics are changed by MADV_DONTNEED and that the other advices are only for performance. The user shouldn't have to change how they access the advice'd page.
02:58:13 <korvo> If one really *does* want the semantics to change, it looks like the Linux-specific MADV_FREE has that behavior. I'm not gonna guess at why somebody would want that without an munmap().
02:58:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145801&oldid=144441 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+107)
02:58:54 <ais523> korvo: MADV_FREE is useful if you have an application that maps the entire address space in advance, and does mallocs simply by returning an unused address without telling the kernle
02:59:09 <ais523> this is useful to save on system calls
02:59:34 <korvo> ais523: Makes sense for sure.
02:59:34 <ais523> but it's not a very popular style of programming
03:01:17 <korvo> Is MADV_DONTNEED useful for maybe databases or game servers where data access patterns aren't sequential or random, but need to be explicitly scheduled? I'd guess that MADV_WILLNEED would be used in tandem.
03:01:56 <korvo> Maybe worth contrasting Linux man with POSIX man: https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/posix_madvise.3.html "shall not affect the semantics of access to memory"
03:08:20 <int-e> korvo: "since glibc 2.6, POSIX_MADV_DONTNEED is treated as a no-op, because the corresponding madvise(2) value, MADV_DONTNEED, has destructive semantics."
03:09:02 <korvo> int-e: Ugh. Well, at least they documented it. Thanks.
03:09:51 <int-e> There's a question how useful the POSIX version is. I guess it'll still be allowed to do something if you mmap a file read-only
03:13:33 <int-e> or you can encourage the kernel to swap the page out if there's memory pressure
03:13:36 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145802 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+1437) Created page with "{{stub}} '''RuleLoader''' is the algorithm used to simulate <code>.rule</code> files describing different types of [[CA]], also known as '''rule tables''' and '''rule trees'''. A description of the file format is provided in Golly's built-in h
03:15:57 <int-e> Hmm apparently Go switched from MADV_DONTNEED to MADV_FREE and back again. https://github.com/golang/go/commit/05e6d28849293266028c0bc9e9b0f8d0da38a2e2
03:17:09 <int-e> "jemalloc plays a game where they call MADV_FREE and then 10s later they call MADV_DONTNEED"
03:17:15 <int-e> https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/51086
03:17:45 <esolangs> [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145803&oldid=145604 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4)
03:17:46 <int-e> I have no clue why the situation sounds messy.
03:18:34 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145804&oldid=145802 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+82)
03:19:18 <korvo> Found LWN: https://lwn.net/Articles/591214/
03:19:25 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145805&oldid=145804 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+74)
03:20:37 <esolangs> [[ALPACA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145806&oldid=68574 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+43)
03:20:56 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145807&oldid=145805 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+25)
03:23:19 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145808&oldid=145807 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+118)
03:24:05 <korvo> I wanted to see if RPython has an explanation. They have a comment here: https://github.com/pypy/pypy/blob/main/rpython/rlib/rmmap.py#L860 There are four different madvise_free() implementations; this one for Linux does MADV_FREE followed by MADV_DONTNEED.
03:25:03 <korvo> Er, if MADV_FREE fails then they try again with MADV_DONTNEED. This is how they free low-level arenas for the JIT and GC.
03:25:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Matrioshka language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145809 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+221) Created page with "Can LifeViewer be considered a "Matrioshka language"? ~~~~"
03:27:22 <korvo> Heh, "so users could the page without any corruption". They accidentally a verb.
03:27:42 <korvo> But I get it. If I accidentally the page, then no corruption please.
03:29:30 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145810&oldid=145808 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+578) /* Computational class */ new section) (----
03:37:19 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145811&oldid=145765 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+28) Rule table
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03:46:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145812&oldid=145811 * Aadenboy * (+14) /* E */
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04:22:51 <esolangs> [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145813&oldid=145803 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+943)
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06:01:00 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145814&oldid=145810 * ZCX islptng * (+1697)
06:06:43 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145815&oldid=145814 * ZCX islptng * (+153)
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06:26:08 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145816&oldid=145754 * Win7HE * (-24) /* Variants of deadfish */
06:28:09 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145817&oldid=145760 * Win7HE * (+1) /* Commands */
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06:33:16 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145818&oldid=145817 * Win7HE * (+75) /* External Links */
06:58:52 <esolangs> [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145819&oldid=145818 * Win7HE * (+0) /* Commands */
07:47:17 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145820&oldid=145797 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Syntax */
07:49:33 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145821&oldid=145783 * Ractangle * (-13) /* Cat program */
07:52:03 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145822&oldid=145820 * Ractangle * (+291)
07:52:22 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145823&oldid=145822 * Ractangle * (+3)
07:52:31 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145824&oldid=145823 * Ractangle * (-13)
07:54:19 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145825&oldid=144004 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Snakel */
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08:00:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Matrioshka language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145826&oldid=145809 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+138)
08:05:05 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145827&oldid=145825 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Snakel */
08:05:20 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145828&oldid=145827 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Snakel */
08:05:40 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145829&oldid=145828 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Snakel */
08:06:02 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145830&oldid=145792 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Syntax */
08:08:10 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145831&oldid=145830 * Ractangle * (+127)
08:09:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Matrioshka language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145832&oldid=145826 * Ractangle * (+1)
08:09:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145833&oldid=145801 * Ractangle * (+6)
08:12:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145834&oldid=145833 * Ractangle * (+396)
08:12:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145835&oldid=145834 * Ractangle * (+168)
08:13:01 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145836&oldid=145835 * Ractangle * (+1)
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10:03:52 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145837 * Iddi01 * (+11933) I'm getting crazy with [[uniode]]
10:10:32 <esolangs> [[Uniode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145838&oldid=145479 * Iddi01 * (+679) /* */
10:24:05 <b_jonas> I wonder if there's a system call interface that lets a process that's mostly single-threaded conspire with the operating system to lie to programs like top to pretend that it's busy on all processor cores, for when the customer or PR department or whatever heard that you can make any program run 24 times as fast by using multithreading and demands that you use it, but the task isn't actually reasonably
10:24:11 <b_jonas> paralellizable. This would be especially for hyperthreading where starting dummy threads could slow down the main thread even if they don't do any memory access.
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11:09:42 <iddi01> !ztest clock >>>+<-<-(>(-)*128<+[<(-)*111(>)*9(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*9(-)*111(>)*10(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*10(---+)*-1]-)*8>+[-((-)*256<+[<(---+)*-1]->)*8(-)*96431<(+)*65(>)*9(>[(+)*111(+.)*32>])*19](+)*21<(-)*33(>)*11([(-)*106[-.][--+[--+]]>]>)*21
11:09:43 <zemhill> iddi01.clock: points 9.43, score 40.93, rank 1/47 (+3)
11:09:58 <iddi01> !zjoust clock >>>+<-<-(>(-)*128<+[<(-)*111(>)*9(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*9(-)*111(>)*10(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*10(---+)*-1]-)*8>+[-((-)*256<+[<(---+)*-1]->)*8(-)*96431<(+)*65(>)*9(>[(+)*111(+.)*32>])*19](+)*21<(-)*33(>)*11([(-)*106[-.][--+[--+]]>]>)*21
11:09:59 <zemhill> iddi01.clock: points 9.43, score 40.93, rank 1/47 (+3)
11:14:48 <esolangs> [[BF Joust champions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145839&oldid=144978 * Iddi01 * (+1018) /* 2024 */ wanted to wait until 2025, but i couldn't resist
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12:21:27 <iddi01> fizzie: After looking at Core War which have multiple hills with different settings, i have an idea of a similar thing for BF joust:
12:21:28 <iddi01> Tiny hill: programs must have size lower than 100 excluding comments
12:21:28 <iddi01> Nano hill: programs must have size lower than 250, b u t abbreviations are treated as comments, so (+)*5 will mean + and so on.
12:21:29 <iddi01> Experimental hill: To allow for more complex strategies, tape size is 15-50 instead of 10-30, cells wrap at 512 instead of 256, and timeout is 250000 cycles.
12:21:29 <iddi01> 2D hill: The tape becomes a grid with the two flags at opposite corners. < and ^ move towards your flag and > and v move towards the opponent's. Grid size is 5x5 to 15x15, including non-square ones
12:21:30 <iddi01> Fork hill: Add a Y instruction that works the same as in Brainfork except both threads share the same tape, Y takes one cycle and the threads execute sequentially with the parent thread going first, each taking one cycle.
12:21:30 <iddi01> These hills would ideally also have 47 slots, but the 2D hill could have fewer slots since each two programs plays 242 matches!
12:21:31 <iddi01> See the Core War sites https://sal.discontinuity.info/index.php and http://www.koth.org/koth.html for reference.
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12:27:12 <iddi01> ^echo perlbot echo ^echo
12:27:12 <fungot> perlbot echo ^echo perlbot echo ^echo
12:27:13 <perlbot> fungot: ^echo perlbot echo ^echo
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12:49:29 <perlbot> iddi01: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [_test] [test] [tickit] [.tc] [.tg] [.tj] [.tk] [tk] [tx] [.tz]
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12:59:11 <iddi01> ^def echo_once bf ,[.,]
13:00:19 <iddi01> ^echo_once `echo perlbot echo test
13:00:19 <fungot> `echo perlbot echo test
13:03:30 <iddi01> `echo perlbot echo fungot
13:03:30 <fungot> iddi01: i've used guile ( for snd) and gambit ( with the new " agile"
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13:28:29 <esolangs> [[~~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145840&oldid=145486 * Yayimhere * (+65) /* syntax */
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14:27:04 <esolangs> [[OTS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145841&oldid=145657 * Yayimhere * (+2) /* memory */
14:36:41 <esolangs> [[OTS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145842&oldid=145841 * Yayimhere * (+213) /* commands */
14:53:20 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145843&oldid=145751 * Win7HE * (+8)
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14:59:37 <wWwwW> hello? why are you "hmm"ing
15:00:43 <win7he> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-11-19.html
15:01:03 <win7he> heres the logs for today
15:10:15 <esolangs> [[Eso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145844 * Win7HE * (+28) Created page with "i think you mean [[Esolang]]"
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16:00:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DevThatCodes * New user account
16:01:46 <wWwwW> hey korvo umm i want to disagree with you on that NSA FF discussion we had yester day
16:08:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145845&oldid=145747 * DevThatCodes * (+91) /* Introductions */
16:09:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145846&oldid=145845 * DevThatCodes * (+99) /* Introductions */
16:12:27 <esolangs> [[Zudjn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145847 * DevThatCodes * (+73) Created page with "Zudjn is a small Esolang that i have not made yet, but i am working on it"
16:24:20 <esolangs> [[Zudjn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145848&oldid=145847 * DevThatCodes * (+64)
16:30:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Malbolger * New user account
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17:15:07 <wWwwW> well im god what about you
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17:16:02 <korvo> Just woke up and watered the plants.
17:26:03 <korvo> wWwwW: So, what were your thoughts?
17:26:39 <wWwwW> i had that pointer yesterday
17:27:25 <wWwwW> first of all in the "run each possible program at the same time" has more states running then "actually do it randomly each time" has only one running
17:28:28 <wWwwW> in FF if you say "i will label each state by what pointer is running it" you are actually creating states
17:28:45 <wWwwW> the difference is the both pointers run in the same program
17:29:38 <korvo> I learned the old ways, so I only know this in terms of Mealy and Moore machines, which I constantly mix up. Nonetheless, I don't see how states are being created here.
17:29:59 <wWwwW> i dont know how to explain it otherwise
17:30:05 <wWwwW> ok heres another question
17:30:08 <korvo> FSMs don't have pointers. They have states and inputs, along with a transition function that maps a (state, input) pair to the next state.
17:30:38 <wWwwW> how i understand it theres a pointer that trantisions and points to current state
17:30:50 <korvo> Evaluating an NFA can be done by simulating multiple pointers on top of its DFA, *or* by expanding the NFA to a DFA with exponentially-many states; they're two different equivalent techniques.
17:30:51 <wWwwW> thats how FF works anyway
17:31:26 <korvo> A pointer is an implementation detail. A pointer to a state is an implementation of a state.
17:31:55 <wWwwW> but in FF you have to implement it that way otherwise it would be cheating
17:32:45 <korvo> That's pro-DRM thinking.
17:33:08 <korvo> That's the same sort of thinking that leads to people trying to control what you can run on your computer.
17:33:31 <wWwwW> well agian you dont have to but thats the way i specify it
17:35:07 <wWwwW> ok we can agree that we disagree
17:35:19 <korvo> Nah, I don't really go for that whole Discord-coded playground approach with imaginary rules and geass-like restrictions that are magically cast on people by saying the special words.
17:35:57 <korvo> Do you think that it's cheating to implement an optimized Brainfuck interpreter? A Malbolge decryptor? A C compiler which defines some of the undefined behaviors?
17:39:41 <korvo> wWwwW: Sorry, that was mean of me. I'm glad that you're discovering important concepts like FSMs, even if I'm frustrated that you aren't engaging yourself with them.
18:02:13 <esolangs> [[Eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145849&oldid=145844 * Ractangle * (-7) Redirected page to [[Esolang]]
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18:52:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Eso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145850 * Aadenboy * (+306) Created page with "is this necessary? ~~~~"
19:10:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:Eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145851&oldid=145850 * Ractangle * (+204)
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19:17:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145852&oldid=145851 * Aadenboy * (+297)
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19:53:14 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145853&oldid=145829 * Ractangle * (+18) /* Gammaline languages */
20:01:55 <zzo38> I do not think that it is cheating to implement a optimized brainfuck interpreter, at least in general. (This is not a requirement to implement a optimized brainfuck interpreter, though.)
20:10:18 <korvo> Sure. I was too rhetorical. I didn't have a good reaction to "you have to implement it that way otherwise it would be cheating". When it comes from a teenager, it's cute and naive, but in the USA it usually comes from preachers and legislators.
20:46:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Maza * New user account
20:55:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145854&oldid=145846 * Maza * (+168)
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21:38:42 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145855&oldid=145837 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-194) Categories
21:41:54 <esolangs> [[Manuever]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145856&oldid=145684 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+153) Categories
21:42:57 <esolangs> [[g]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145857&oldid=145694 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+108) Categories
21:44:31 <esolangs> [[AnnoyingScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145858&oldid=145728 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+115) Categories
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21:47:16 <esolangs> [[Stuley]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145859&oldid=145824 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) Stub, categories
21:49:19 <esolangs> [[Pararedox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145860&oldid=145733 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Template, categories
21:51:34 <esolangs> [[Halforth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145861&oldid=145770 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+71) Link, categories
21:53:13 <zzo38> Is there a bijective base 2 Morse code? It seem to me that it can be done, with zero meaning a space between words, 1 for E, 2 for T, etc.
21:55:29 <esolangs> [[Estrita]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145862&oldid=145798 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
21:58:02 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145863&oldid=145815 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-42) Remove incorrect {{deadlink}}s and empty section, add link
21:59:28 <esolangs> [[Zudjn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145864&oldid=145848 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+82) Stub, categories
22:01:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mint * New user account
22:01:24 <esolangs> [[Fiifinite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145865&oldid=145776 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+69) Categories
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23:28:22 <esolangs> [[Pi Calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145866&oldid=139870 * Woofmao * (+371) Extend cat example
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00:34:39 <esolangs> [[User:Kevidryon2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145867&oldid=110339 * Kevidryon2 * (+105)
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02:23:22 <esolangs> [[Amo gus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145868&oldid=135843 * Qawtykit * (+61) added DUP implementation
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04:43:55 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145869 * CreeperBomb * (+7359) Created page with "== Description == All operators have a default arity, which can be changed with placing a number of dots before it - one dot per extra input. Multiple dots can be shortened to ".#" for a numeric digit "#" (note: 0 means 10 dots, 1 means 11, and 2 means
04:48:21 <esolangs> [[Amo gus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145870&oldid=145868 * MihaiEso * (+129)
04:49:33 <esolangs> [[Amo gus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145871&oldid=145870 * MihaiEso * (+0)
05:37:14 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145872&oldid=145869 * CreeperBomb * (+587)
05:54:21 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145873&oldid=145872 * CreeperBomb * (+324) /* Example programs */
05:56:44 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145874&oldid=145873 * CreeperBomb * (+106) /* Print null */
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06:31:58 <int-e> . o O ( progress bar, n. -- a device that bars you from progressing )
07:39:14 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145875&oldid=145853 * Ractangle * (-56) /* Snakel */
07:40:04 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145876&oldid=145875 * Ractangle * (-93) /* Snakel */
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08:18:51 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145877&oldid=145232 * MihaiEso * (+62) /* Others */
08:22:47 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again16]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145878&oldid=144114 * MihaiEso * (+41)
08:22:59 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/None1 again9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145879&oldid=144197 * MihaiEso * (+42)
08:23:08 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/None1 again9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145880&oldid=145879 * MihaiEso * (+1)
08:24:41 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145881&oldid=145318 * MihaiEso * (+92) /* Horribly translated variants */
08:24:54 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145882&oldid=145881 * MihaiEso * (+48) /* Horribly translated variants */
08:25:22 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145883&oldid=144282 * MihaiEso * (+42)
08:25:31 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145884&oldid=145883 * MihaiEso * (+1)
08:28:10 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145885 * MihaiEso * (+2389) Created page with "Future comes by, waiting for worse results! ~~~~ 1. Take that [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17|shitty sh*t]] <pre> Do you know how to repeat the action of hitting the big car by the family? Is the ability to write about the lack of desire in everyo
08:45:51 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145886&oldid=145855 * Iddi01 * (+595) Separate the unicode by lines to be clearer
08:50:31 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145887&oldid=145886 * Iddi01 * (-549) Wait, redirect messed up transclusion
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09:22:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145888 * Iddi01 * (+515) Created page with "I suggest merging all these into one single page ([[Translated ORK]]) and the other sequence into [[Translated ZhongWen]] because they aren't essentially different and aren't actually languages, and so don't deserve individual pages, especially w
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09:53:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145889&oldid=8535 * Win7HE * (+30) Removed redirect to [[Esoteric programming language]]
09:54:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145890&oldid=145889 * Win7HE * (-9)
09:54:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145891&oldid=145890 * Win7HE * (+1) Redirected page to [[Esoteric programming language]]
09:55:33 <esolangs> [[Eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145892&oldid=145849 * Win7HE * (+22)
09:55:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145893&oldid=145891 * Win7HE * (-22)
10:34:25 <esolangs> [[TW'sLE!!!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145894&oldid=142044 * Iddi01 * (+1240) The code is not working on latest versions, add a weak one that do to compensate
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10:55:26 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145895&oldid=145831 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
11:08:22 <esolangs> [[EchoLang (None1)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145896 * None1 * (+1797) Created page with "'''EchoLang''' is an esolang prompted by [[User:None1]] and invented by Cursor AI: ==Commands== + : Increment the current memory cell. - : Decrement the current memory cell. > : Move the memory pointer to the right. < : Move the memory pointer to the left. . : Ou
11:24:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145897&oldid=145678 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+229) /* Pronunciation */ new section) (----
11:28:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145898&oldid=145897 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+127) /* Pronunciation */
11:40:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Empty Program]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145899 * None1 * (+38) Created page with "This is the same as [[NOP]], isn't it."
11:42:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Empty Program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145900&oldid=145899 * None1 * (+235)
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12:02:42 <Guest65> (yes this is wWwwW wutever)'
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12:06:44 <Guest65> wadda thibnj of tis?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%89%C5%A1%C5%93%C5%82%C3%A3%C3%B1g
12:09:06 <ais523> it's unclear what the program does, or what the program even is
12:09:32 <ais523> e.g. are the rules always the same or are they specified by the program? and if they're specified by the program, how?
12:09:59 <Guest65> (also i forgot to specify syntax lol)'
12:10:45 <ais523> right, yes, that might be the confusion – it isn't clear from the article what influence the program has on the execution of the language, explaining the syntax might help with that
12:11:26 <Guest65> the program defines what chars have computation applied
12:13:22 <ais523> it doesn't have enough detail
12:13:44 <Guest65> yea it sint syntax but like
12:14:17 <Guest65> x:y creates a rule where x is the char and y is the number. then on those cycles that are specified x changes based on that
12:17:06 <ais523> OK, I think I understand now, although it isn't explained that well
12:17:45 <ais523> it is sub-TC because it's a sort of neighbour-independent substitution system, which can't usefully store arbitrary amounts of data (they can expand memory infinitely but not make use of that when reading it)
12:18:23 <Guest65> ? it can make use of what its readin with the prime number rule i think
12:19:09 <Guest65> cuz it reads the data and stores that data in itself
12:21:18 <ais523> so the problem is you're making lots of copies of the base string, but those can't interact with each other in any awy
12:21:59 <Guest65> if its not a single char but string
12:22:09 <Guest65> cuz then it isnt independent anymore
12:22:26 <ais523> right, that seems like an easy fix
12:22:50 <Guest65> you could have both on same page
12:23:06 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145901&oldid=145812 * Ractangle * (-18) /* A */
12:24:52 <Guest65> well when i get home ill do that'
12:25:04 <Guest65> do you think that becomes TC?
12:25:14 <Guest65> (and no you cant just say that its just /// now)
12:25:25 <ais523> I'm not sure, but if it does it's probably in a boring way that avoids most of the functionality of the language
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12:51:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ractangle * moved [[Dumbfuck]] to [[Dumbf*ck]] over redirect
12:51:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ractangle * moved [[Talk:Dumbfuck]] to [[Talk:Dumbf*ck]] over redirect
12:51:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Ractangle * Ractangle deleted redirect [[Dumbf*ck]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Dumbfuck]]"
12:51:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Ractangle * Ractangle deleted redirect [[Talk:Dumbf*ck]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Dumbfuck]]"
12:56:24 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145906&oldid=145857 * Yayimhere * (+486) /* semantics */
12:57:57 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145907&oldid=129490 * UndoneStudios * (+117)
12:58:20 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145908&oldid=145907 * UndoneStudios * (+29)
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12:58:58 <wWwwW> hey ais i changed it
13:13:33 <ais523> well, it's a language now – I'm not sure it'll inspire anyone to actually use it, the rules are somewhat arbitrary
13:13:49 <wWwwW> it *is* just a keyboard lol
13:16:39 <wWwwW> sadly im to stupid to proov it TC
13:16:46 <wWwwW> unless i. make 10 esolangs to proove it
13:18:24 <wWwwW> or maybe even there i cant
13:18:29 <wWwwW> im already stuck lol
13:21:38 <ais523> I think that most of my languages aim to be TC in unusual ways – this is in many cases a side effect of being designed to be powerful for proving things TC
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13:47:51 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again-Viginte]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145909 * PrySigneToFry * (+2323) Created page with "Translated ORK/Mihai Again18|<span style="font-family:Unifont;">HFE D H$0H? H? H'E D H$0H? H? HE D H?{? H? tH?r? tH?p? tHu H?Q? H?Q? H?Q? H?Q? H?8 H(?, 8H?? HtAH?? HtH?? /G H? H? L? E3?? G H?X7 H8+ ..."
13:49:54 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145910&oldid=145885 * PrySigneToFry * (+144)
13:50:54 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145911&oldid=145882 * PrySigneToFry * (+125)
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14:26:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145912&oldid=145744 * ZCX islptng * (+109)
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15:36:50 <wWwwW> hey ais523 i wanted to proove TC and i wanted to know if you had any esolangs that i could try to use?
15:37:20 <ais523> wWwwW: what do you mean by "use" here – are you looking for languages to prove TCness of, or languages to prove TCness with?
15:38:03 <wWwwW> frick i need to be better at words lol
15:38:29 <ais523> normally I use The Waterfall Model for anything that's capable of representing enough unbounded counters
15:38:47 <wWwwW> that makes sense to use
15:38:49 <ais523> or tag variants (e.g. Echo Tag or Genera Tag) for anything that has a queue
15:39:32 <ais523> there are some more special-purpose TC-proving languages, like Delta Relay for languages which are bad at "resetting" their control flow, but they aren't useful as often
15:43:50 <wWwwW> what would you reccomnd me tho?
15:43:57 <wWwwW> (other than waterfall)
15:45:38 <ais523> cyclic tag, minsky machines
15:46:22 <ais523> I've made many "slightly easier to implement than cyclic tag" languages, but most languages are able to implement the original, it's only when that doesn't work that you need to reach for a more powerful option
15:48:35 <wWwwW> also can you help me. im pretty bad at TC'ness prooving
15:49:29 <wWwwW> i know how to ignore the odd rule
15:51:30 <ais523> normally it is easier to compile than interpret – think about how you would compile from the TC-proving language to the language you're trying to prove
15:51:44 <ais523> if there isn't an obvious way to do it, move onto a different TC-proving language
15:52:11 <wWwwW> cant compile also mean like translate?
15:52:24 <wWwwW> underload was translated into umm
15:53:38 <ais523> a simple translation is a sort of compiler
15:54:15 <ais523> or, well, it's a correspondence between languages which can trivially be used as the basis of a compiler
15:57:25 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145913&oldid=145906 * Yayimhere * (-80) /* semantics(g Normal) */
16:01:00 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145914&oldid=145913 * Yayimhere * (+87) /* semantics(g Normal) */
16:02:24 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145915&oldid=145914 * Yayimhere * (-1) /* Compl class */
16:03:42 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145916&oldid=145915 * Yayimhere * (+36) /* g bd */
16:05:00 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145917&oldid=145916 * Yayimhere * (-20) /* syntax */
16:05:45 <wWwwW> well ill do some research then
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16:10:42 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145918&oldid=144472 * Yayimhere * (-5367) /* golfing lang */
16:10:58 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145919&oldid=145918 * Yayimhere * (-502) /* APL x BASIC x MM */
16:44:06 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145920&oldid=145917 * Yayimhere * (+89) /* syntax */
16:47:42 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145921&oldid=145919 * Yayimhere * (+122) /* research */
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16:52:48 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145922&oldid=145921 * Yayimhere * (+23) /* research */
16:53:31 <wWwwW> hey ais523 how many counters does waterfall need
16:53:51 <ais523> or, well, maybe it can do with less, but 7's the minimum we've proven
16:54:21 <ais523> although if you're going down to that few counters, the numbers get very large
16:54:38 <ais523> this is partly because the waterfall model uses counters both as control flow and as data
16:54:58 <ais523> if you have separate control flow, you have a counter machine, and those work with only two counters
16:55:18 <wWwwW> im already so stuck
16:56:04 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145923&oldid=145922 * Yayimhere * (+103) /* research */
16:59:40 <ais523> the way the string keeps expanding makes TCness proofs difficult
17:00:01 <ais523> there are at least two old languages like that which are still unsolved, although people gave up trying fairly quickly
17:00:19 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag is fun, it was widely suspected not to be TC but that's hard to prove
17:00:29 <wWwwW> i hve read xigxag!
17:03:11 <wWwwW> i wil NEVER GIVE UP
17:09:33 <wWwwW> so if we have these counters
17:10:10 <wWwwW> every prim iteration the counters nothhing happens
17:11:59 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145924&oldid=145920 * Yayimhere * (+140) /* syntax */
17:15:14 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145925&oldid=145923 * Yayimhere * (+165) /* research */
17:18:29 <wWwwW> know i know how to ignore different rules and how to make counters trhat jump to some value n whenever they hit 1
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17:25:25 <esolangs> [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145926&oldid=145925 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* research */
17:25:50 <wWwwW> hey ais523(if i need to stop pinging me just tell me) have i actually made progres?^^
17:27:08 <ais523> I'm too tired to tell, I should go to bed (but I'm not sure if I'll be able to tell even when more awake)
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17:37:17 <esolangs> [[g]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145927&oldid=145924 * Yayimhere * (+21) /* syntax */
17:42:11 <esolangs> [[Eso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145928&oldid=145892 * Ractangle * (-22)
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20:35:49 <b_jonas> that reminds me, we'll still have to try to work out if we can get a turing-completness proof for Imprecision
20:39:58 <b_jonas> fungot, is clothespin really a synonym for clothes peg, the fastner used to fix clothes onto a drying line? because that sounds rather silly
20:39:58 <fungot> b_jonas: a breadtangle!! i wanta tell you you're a carrier! to generate html
21:05:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[2.210*]] to [[Xtrod]]
21:10:57 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145931&oldid=145929 * Ractangle * (+333)
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22:06:20 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145932&oldid=145931 * Ractangle * (-76)
22:12:54 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145933&oldid=145932 * Ractangle * (+395) /* Instruction minimise */
22:13:35 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145934&oldid=145933 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Instruction minimise */
22:15:39 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145935&oldid=145934 * Ractangle * (+74) /* See also */
22:16:30 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145936&oldid=145935 * Ractangle * (+60) /* Instruction minimise */
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22:29:12 <esolangs> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145937&oldid=129803 * Ractangle * (+535) /* Step 4: Finished */
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22:33:26 <korvo> ais523: I don't know if I linked it here, but I wrote a guest post for the PyPy/RPython blog last week: https://pypy.org/posts/2024/11/guest-post-final-encoding-in-rpython.html
22:34:17 <korvo> You had mentioned being surprised at the BF monoid, so I figured you'd appreciate the punchline: the monoid makes it possible to optimize a final encoding with nice algebraic reasoning.
22:47:43 <esolangs> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145938&oldid=145937 * Ractangle * (+49) /* Step 2:Merge the input and output */
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23:47:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nythop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145939&oldid=145429 * Luxedo * (+825) Response about copyright
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00:30:58 <int-e> I was wondering why this text was so hard to select: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/select-kerning.png ...what a stupid side effect of aggressive kerning
00:31:36 <int-e> (The text in question was "SBF should be the new crypto czar" which I find funny. Well, as long as it doesn't actually happen.)
00:33:10 <int-e> (it continues ", a thread. 1/666" which didn't hit for me.)
00:34:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145940&oldid=145898 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+202) /* Pronunciation */
00:39:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145941&oldid=145940 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+12) /* Pronunciation */ It could be by design) (----
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00:47:43 <esolangs> [[Relative subleq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145942 * Zackbuildit777 * (+2080) Created page with "Relative Subleq is an [[OISC]] esoteric programming language directly based on standard [[Subleq]]. Memory in Relative Subleq is made up of 3 elements: # a memory pointer, called P # a memory tape, unbounded in both directions, with each cell being an un
01:10:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145943&oldid=145912 * ZCX islptng * (+366)
01:12:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zackbuildit777]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145944 * ZCX islptng * (+370) Created page with "'''I've comed up with the idea [[Relative subleq]] 3 months ago! OMG! The same idea!''' ~~~~"
01:14:32 <int-e> korvo: oh is that monoid what you're using to "normalize" brainfuck code when computing program sizes for the BB gauge?
01:15:09 * int-e had not connected those dots, but the timing is suggestive.
02:25:01 <korvo> int-e: It is now, yes. Previously I was using a smart constructor for the loop idioms and a handrolled iterator for the peephole. Now they're unified via one monoidal action, which is kind of cool.
02:25:57 <korvo> I hadn't intended to use my own code for the BB gauge, but I couldn't find a decent Brainfuck normalizer anywhere in nixpkgs and didn't want to package Somebody Else's Python.
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03:03:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145945&oldid=145943 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+62) /* Some CA stuff */ Added disclaimer) (----
03:07:59 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145946 * RainbowDash * (+2747) Create Page
03:09:54 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145947&oldid=145946 * RainbowDash * (+2201) js
03:10:16 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145948&oldid=145947 * RainbowDash * (+4)
03:17:04 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145949&oldid=145740 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+141)
03:21:08 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * RainbowDash * uploaded "[[File:Windmill logo.png]]"
03:22:28 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145951&oldid=145948 * RainbowDash * (+63)
03:22:47 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145952&oldid=145951 * RainbowDash * (+5) wtf logo placmenet
03:23:48 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145953&oldid=145952 * RainbowDash * (+106) /* Variables */
03:27:32 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145954&oldid=145953 * RainbowDash * (+8) /* Variables */
03:27:40 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145955&oldid=145949 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+450) ----) (Smaller
03:27:57 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145956&oldid=145955 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+2)
03:28:51 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145957&oldid=145956 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+50)
03:30:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * RainbowDash * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Windmill logo.png]]"
03:34:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145959&oldid=145941 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+348) /* Life viewer bug */ new section: birth and death count is wrong) (----
03:38:08 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145960&oldid=145954 * RainbowDash * (+484) Operators
03:39:15 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145961&oldid=145960 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+84) /* Computational class */ new section
03:40:58 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145962&oldid=145961 * RainbowDash * (+12) attention
04:28:02 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145963&oldid=145317 * RainbowDash * (+13)
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06:40:30 <esolangs> [[Xtrod]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145964&oldid=145936 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Instruction minimise */
06:56:54 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145965&oldid=145887 * Iddi01 * (+245) Make this a soft redirect, that's the closest to what i want while preserving transclusion
07:11:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145966&oldid=145674 * Iddi01 * (+668) /* Can you help fix this mess */ new section
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09:14:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145967&oldid=143326 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Input/output capabilities */
09:59:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Translated ORK * New user account
10:01:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145968&oldid=145854 * Translated ORK * (+220)
10:02:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145969&oldid=145966 * Translated ORK * (+129) /* Can you help fix this mess */
10:02:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145970&oldid=145888 * Translated ORK * (+123)
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