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21:16:11 <esolangs> [[Saturnus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119781 * SigmaOctantis * (+2703) Created page with "Saturnus is a programming language that aims to have a simplified mix of Rust programming language and Lua. The main target for Saturnus compiler is Lua, but multi-target compilation will arrive in the future, so stay tuned if you like the language. The origina
21:21:15 <esolangs> [[Saturnus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119782&oldid=119781 * SigmaOctantis * (+35)
22:56:46 <esolangs> [[Saturnus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119783&oldid=119782 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+73) Categories
22:59:42 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119784&oldid=119753 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) /* S */ add
23:04:37 <esolangs> [[IDKHIW]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119785&oldid=119409 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+33) Stub, category
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23:58:49 <esolangs> [[Cellular automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119786&oldid=78704 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+34) /* See also */ Category
00:00:08 <esolangs> [[Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119787&oldid=66040 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31) Category
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02:29:46 <esolangs> [[Stick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119788&oldid=118900 * PaxtonPenguin * (-42)
03:16:48 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119789&oldid=97538 * Para * (+2)
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10:33:25 <esolangs> [[SBFM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119790&oldid=119571 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-2)
11:40:21 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119791&oldid=119707 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+84)
11:40:41 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119792&oldid=119791 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2)
11:42:38 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119793&oldid=119792 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3)
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13:16:33 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck code generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119794&oldid=117190 * Mayedl10 * (+152) /* Languages that compile to brainfuck */
14:00:02 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Py]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119795&oldid=119757 * Lilchiky * (+123)
14:15:22 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1291.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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15:31:38 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1291.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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18:34:31 <esolangs> [[Stakc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119796&oldid=108236 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-2)
19:07:29 <int-e> Lesson learned... sometimes when a puzzle doesn't work out it's just because you're too stupid :)
19:19:45 <int-e> if you don't mind spoilers: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-copy-hard.png ...the puzzle is on top (make a logo shape in an 18x2 block, taking a white circle and grey square from the left (circle on top) and producing the logo shape in the top-right); my attempts were based on an intermediate shape with one small square raised... I took a long time to realize that there's one more degree of...
19:19:51 <int-e> ...freedom while sticking to the same basic recipe and that would save one column so it actually fits.
19:20:09 <int-e> And unfortunately for the game, the sub-optimal recipe is good enough to cheese the puzzle.
19:22:34 <int-e> And as I've mentioned before,I know for a fact that *some* (presumably older) puzzles must be cheesed. And I don't know how to tell the difference.
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19:30:23 <int-e> But does that also apply to https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11.png ...I have no clue...
19:33:41 <int-e> (The "obvious" thing doesn't work... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11-fail.png ...you either have to do some very awkward routing or use the dhnqphggre)
19:38:46 <int-e> And one way to cheese the level looks like this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11-cheese.png (buffer items and then modify the level to actually deliver products)
19:40:25 <int-e> Somehow I'm still playing these so they can't be too terrible, right?
19:48:02 <b_jonas> that means that's a well-constructed puzzle, not only you can solve it without cheese it also taught you something
19:48:18 <b_jonas> the previous one that's 2 high that is
19:48:50 <b_jonas> I guess you can't tell in advance which puzzle is good
19:53:31 <int-e> Yeah that's my real complaint. (And *some* of the forced cheeses are actually interesting too. But it's a very different flavor of puzzle.)
19:55:08 <b_jonas> I'll just repeat that Puzzletory the Factorio mod is a collection of puzzles that does not allow this kind of cheese, because you can't change anything while your solution is evaluated
19:55:49 <b_jonas> of course you'll have to know some of the mechanics of Factorio to play them, and they can sometimes be just as crazy as shapez's mechanics, only usually for very different reasons
20:05:38 <int-e> In any case, there's just enough degrees of freedom in this puzzle that I'm not 100% sure that cheesing is necessary. I've even found a second way to do the routing that involves a double painter. Which may have been the intended way because it buffers more items...
20:08:03 <int-e> looks like this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11-cheesier.png
20:08:28 <int-e> (interestingly, splitters are disabled for this one)
20:09:31 <int-e> (but cutters can act like splitters if the shapes fit cleanly left and right; there are several puzzles using that idea)
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20:16:09 <b_jonas> a double painter used in a somewhat unusual way
20:17:17 <esolangs> [[NNYRLD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119797&oldid=106974 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) Categories
20:17:37 <int-e> b_jonas: since the puzzle mode doesn't have mergers... this comes up quite a bit.
20:18:24 <int-e> at least it's a bit more clunky than the standard mergers so it's not completely overused :)
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23:51:51 <esolangs> [[Marble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119798&oldid=99956 * Quito0567 * (+8)
06:15:46 <esolangs> [[Marble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119799&oldid=119798 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+84) Categories
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09:44:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cutw]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119800&oldid=119761 * None1 * (+22)
09:45:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Joulier429 * New user account
09:47:18 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Py]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119801&oldid=119795 * None1 * (+133) /* ...this is already a thing though? */
09:50:43 <cpressey> So I've been thinking. The adequacy of the LCF approach really depends on your "threat model". If you just want to protect against mistakes, it's enough (possibly even more than you need), but if you want to defend against someone *falsifying* a proof, though, it needs to be supplemented (by checking a produced certificate).
09:52:10 <cpressey> Because of ROTT, right? Even if your proof language makes 100% guarantees about integrity of your data structures, who knows what the compiler that compiled the implementation of your proof language might've snuck in there.
09:53:11 <cpressey> Anyway, it's the beauty of the idea "Abstract Data Type = Algebra = Proof System" that appeals to me, not really these practical matters.
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10:13:08 <cpressey> "possibly even more than you need" -> Programmers get by with a lot less on a daily basis. "Voluntary encapsulation" in popular languages. Otoh, a lot of software in production has data integrity holes in it. Sometimes massive ones. So that's probably not a good basis for comparison.
11:02:50 <esolangs> [[4RL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119802&oldid=96987 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+183) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the 4RL programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
11:07:44 <esolangs> [[4RL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119803&oldid=119802 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+517) Supplemented three further example programs, namely (1) a repeating cat program, (2) a truth-machine, and (3) a program termination demonstrator.
11:08:06 <b_jonas> sure, but automatically producing a certificate and checking it elsewhere is the easy part. the hard part is making the language convenient enough to express long proofs easily, and also making sure that humans can check all your aximos and the statement of theorems easily (because a proof isn't worth much if you aren't sure what it proves)
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11:23:26 <cpressey> A language that makes something convenient?? Perish the thought, in this channel!
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13:44:27 <arseniiv> a language with the sole (or almost sole) numeric operation which is arithmetic-geometric mean
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14:36:37 <b_jonas> arseniiv: we have languages with a restricted set of arithmetic operations: Nellephant which uses attract and repel, which I find very annoying and unnecessary because it doesn't seem to really help what that language is trying to do over using more sane arithmetic operations; and more interestingly Analogia
14:37:23 <b_jonas> also possibly Conedy, depending on how you interpret "numeric operations"
14:42:02 <arseniiv> b_jonas: oh I read only today that “analogia” is Ancient Greek for hm I forgot what in arithmetic but something basic
14:53:52 <b_jonas> man, we should've just left the babylonians and arabs develop mathematics and science and astronomy. the ancient greeks like Euclid and especially Aristoteles just made everything worse. their only upside was Archimedes.
14:55:11 <b_jonas> plus the Mayans could help if we can contact them earlier I guess
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15:47:34 <esolangs> [[Funky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119804&oldid=119597 * DaMutasimos * (+17)
15:49:19 <esolangs> [[Funky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119805&oldid=119804 * DaMutasimos * (+0) /* Creating custom functions */
15:50:55 <esolangs> [[Funky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119806&oldid=119805 * DaMutasimos * (+11) /* Creating custom functions */
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15:55:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:A Language Programmed While Listening to Godspeed You! Black Emperor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119807 * DaMutasimos * (+34) Created page with "otherwise known as ALPWLTGYBE?!?!?"
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17:31:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Fdai * New user account
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20:50:06 <esolangs> [[Wiwa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119808 * 0ptr * (+7334) Created page with "'''Wiwa''' is a stack-based, array-oriented esolang inspired by [Uiua https://uiua.org] and [BQN https://mlochbaum.github.io/BQN]. '''Wiwa''' operates on a stack of arrays. Each array can only contain other arrays, meaning there are no values in Wiwa. You can find the inter
20:50:18 <esolangs> [[Wiwa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119809&oldid=119808 * 0ptr * (+0) fix the link
20:50:41 <esolangs> [[Wiwa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119810&oldid=119809 * 0ptr * (+0) fix links
20:55:27 <esolangs> [[Wiwa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119811&oldid=119810 * 0ptr * (-8)
21:05:56 <arseniiv> <b_jonas> their only upside was Archimedes. => he was
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21:45:30 <esolangs> [[Turing Tumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119812&oldid=52228 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
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22:16:00 <esolangs> [[Alphuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119813&oldid=119760 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+121) Added a repeating cat program and subsumed the twissel of extant examples into a common section.
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22:20:19 <esolangs> [[Alphuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119814&oldid=119813 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3803) Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp.
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22:23:37 <esolangs> [[Alphuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119815&oldid=119814 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+233) Improved the command table's formatting and supplemented the page category tag Implemented.
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00:40:36 <esolangs> [[Parrot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119816&oldid=117877 * CreeperBomb * (+18)
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07:18:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Language of Lauging]] to [[Language of Laughing]] over redirect: Fix typo
07:18:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * PythonshellDebugwindow * PythonshellDebugwindow deleted redirect [[Language of Laughing]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Language of Lauging]]"
07:20:35 <esolangs> [[Language of Laughing]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119819&oldid=119817 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+22) Category
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10:03:52 <esolangs> [[Unmatched (]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119820&oldid=119429 * None1 * (+27) /* Python interpreter */ Belongs to the stupid family because of its stupid error reporting feature
10:08:38 <cpressey> "Forward and backward proof in HOL corresponds to special cases of rule composition in Isabelle. However, Milner’s key idea of using ML’s abstract types to ensure that theorems can only be obtained by allowable combinations of allowable rules is retained, and lifted to the metalogic level."
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10:09:11 <cpressey> OK, now I'm going to have to look into Isabelle's innards to find out what the heck *that* means.
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10:29:43 <cpressey> Apparently it means the metalogic is implemented as an abstract data type in ML. The object logic that you actually work with, e.g. Isabelle/HOL, is encoded in the metalogic.
10:31:19 <cpressey> That seems less cool somehow. Ah well
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14:48:06 <esolangs> [[Wiwa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119821&oldid=119811 * 0ptr * (+56)
15:37:16 <esolangs> [[Kak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119822&oldid=105501 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-9)
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16:25:37 <riv> I think if you are trying to prove A |- Z (You hvae the assumption A and want to prove B)
16:25:49 <riv> a forward proof step would be using A -> B to change your goal to proving B |- Z
16:26:07 <riv> and a backward proof step would be using Y -> Z to change your goal into A |- Y
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17:37:52 <esolangs> [[Monkeys]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119823&oldid=94835 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) Category
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18:30:55 <esolangs> [[Kak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119824&oldid=119822 * Quito0567 * (+37) Must be turing complete
18:31:55 <esolangs> [[Kak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119825&oldid=119824 * Quito0567 * (-37) Undo revision 119824 by [[Special:Contributions/Quito0567|Quito0567]] ([[User talk:Quito0567|talk]]) i take that back
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19:31:27 <b_jonas> fungot, are cosmic rays actually cartridge fish, or are they just named after some superficial similarity?
19:31:56 <b_jonas> hmm, our mascot isn't here
19:38:30 <fizzie> Oh²: I updated it to expect the ~ in my hostname when I had that identd issue, which is now resolved (at least temporarily, after a Debian upgrade and reboot), so now it again doesn't acknowledge my authority in commanding it to join here.
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19:39:51 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld elon enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
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20:08:58 <b_jonas> fungot, are cosmic rays actually cartridge fish, or are they just named after some superficial similarity?
20:08:58 <fungot> b_jonas: nothing new? spill it) and it is slower then not creating it :)
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20:26:42 <b_jonas> fungot, out of these creatures, which two are what the second word of their name indicates? sea anemone, sea angel, sea ape, sea asparagus, sea bear, sea canary, sea cucumber, sea devil, sea elephant, sea fig, sea hare, sea hawk, sea horse, sea leopard, sea lettuce, sea lilies, sea lion, sea louse, sea moth, sea otter, sea porcupine, sea pork, sea raven, sea toad, sea unicorn, sea urchin, sea vomit, sea
20:26:43 <fungot> b_jonas: i'm looking at gauche to teach myself lots of capsaicin today.
20:30:19 <int-e> "teach myself lots of capsaicin" sounds hot
20:30:26 <int-e> (not in a sexual way)
20:31:31 <fizzie> Possibly relates to sea chilli peppers somehow.
20:32:46 <b_jonas> nah, statistically speaking based on these creatures, sea chili peppers have nothing to do with chili peppers and don't contain capsaicin
20:34:33 <b_jonas> admittedly I was a bit biased when I made that list, I took every name with the referent unrelated to the referent of the second word that I could find, even obsolete names that nobody uses anymore, while I took only two of the twenty or so examples where "sea" is a restricting suffix
20:37:09 <b_jonas> what complicates the matter is that "pepper" is already used for two entirely different groups of plants, one from each side of the ocean
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22:14:08 <tromp> possibly of interest to ppl here: updated version of earlier article at https://tromp.github.io/blog/2023/11/24/largest-number
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16:19:46 <b_jonas> fungot, the Weasleys just released a holiday special version of poke pastiles that makes your vomit rainbow-colored, but I'm not sure if it works on a funge like you
16:19:46 <fungot> b_jonas: the question is, to what extent? :)
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08:59:53 <cpressey> riv: re forwards and backwards proof: I think of it like this:
08:59:54 <cpressey> A proof is a tree (or more often it's actually a DAG). "Forward proof" is to start at the leaves and work towards the root. "Backward proof" is to start at the root and work towards the leaves.
08:59:54 <cpressey> I think this can sometimes manifest in the way you described with assumptions and conclusions, but not necessarily.
09:08:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Binary lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119869&oldid=24477 * Squidmanescape * (+2815)
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10:35:04 <cpressey> This is what I've been working on lately: https://codeberg.org/catseye/define-opaque/src/branch/develop-0.2
10:35:04 <cpressey> My thought is, if you can do it in Scheme, you could do it in the untyped lambda calculus too.
10:35:05 <cpressey> Which would give you a basis to argue that the untyped lambda calculus is strongly typed.
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12:35:28 <b_jonas> cpressey: doesn't a later scheme standard already give you something like that?
12:37:18 <b_jonas> cpressey: I think you're relying on the equal? primitive, that wouldn't work in untyped lambda calculus
12:37:53 <b_jonas> I don't have a proof, but I think it's not possible in untyped lambda calculus
12:43:00 <b_jonas> in untyped lambda calculus, if you can construct a private accessor function then an adversary can also construct the same function
12:43:08 <b_jonas> there's no eq? or other way to distinguish
12:45:40 <b_jonas> that's not quite a proof because it doesn't exclude inside-out structures, but I think you can't hide data that way either in untyped lambda calculus
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00:17:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Binary lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119874&oldid=119869 * Squidmanescape * (+1633) /* Tentative Explanation */
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02:24:55 <solmanac> Thinking about implementing something like bit bit jump in ttl chips
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04:22:20 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/WordAvalanches/comments/184kfrl/hey_what_type_of_logic_gate_can_be_used_alone_to/
04:23:11 <zzo38> I had considered something similar than "something like bit bit jump in ttl chips" in the past, too
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09:24:06 <cpressey> b_jonas: for clarity: the code that the macro expands to is here: https://codeberg.org/catseye/define-opaque/src/branch/develop-0.2/eg/stack-expanded.scm
09:24:06 <cpressey> It doesn't rely on `eq?`, and it only uses `equal?` to compare symbols.
09:24:07 <cpressey> I would find it very difficult to believe that in the untyped lambda calculus, you can't compare two symbols for equality.
09:25:34 <b_jonas> cpressey: you can't ensure that you only get a symbol rather than an arbitrary function
09:26:52 <b_jonas> that said, you may have a point
09:27:36 <b_jonas> so what you're doing there is make a closure that responds to only certain methods rather than expose its whole inside
09:27:42 <b_jonas> that part might actually work in lambda calculus
09:27:54 <b_jonas> I was thinking of a different goal with data hiding that is harder
09:41:44 <cpressey> OK, yes, "compare for equality modulo bottom" should be acceptable here; if the user passes in a symbol that isn't defined in the structure, that's an error; also an error if they pass in a non-symbol; and if they pass in some kind of nonterminating function there, that's just another flavour of error
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10:21:31 <b_jonas> cpressey: ok, but you have to be careful. suppose you're representing one symbol as (\x\y.x) and another symbol as (\x\y.y), the user could pass in something that does terminate but does something with both x and y that confuses your method dispatcher if you write it wrong
10:21:40 <b_jonas> I think you might actually be able to write it correctly in this case, but still
10:24:01 <b_jonas> or suppose you expect the user to pass in push_symbol = (\x\y.x) or pop_symbol = (\x\y.y) and then you do (somesymbol push_function pop_function data) but they actually pass in (\x\y.evil_function)\
10:24:17 <b_jonas> so you can mess up if you aren't careful
10:29:12 <b_jonas> I think that means you can only do this in lazy lambda calculus, not unlambda style strict lambda calculus
10:29:57 <b_jonas> because you have to do like (somesymbol (push_function data) (pop_function data)) and there (pop_function data) may be non-terminating
10:30:26 <b_jonas> obviously you can avoid that in the simple case of a stack push/pop by making pop terminate even for an empty list, but I mean in the general case
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10:49:08 <cpressey> Thanks for thinking about it, but I don't we're thinking about the same concerns here.
10:49:09 <cpressey> You can use this under strict evaluation just as well as you can use anything else under strict evaluation -- it's not expected to magically be resistant to someone passing in value whose evaluation doesn't terminate.
10:49:09 <cpressey> The only "evil" here is if the user can supply some input that can change the internal state to some state that the operations don't expect it to be in.
10:49:10 <cpressey> So if there is a hole I'd expect it to be in the ability to pass in parameters. But, it seems like you could replace any operation with a parameter, with a number of parameterless operations, e.g. ZERO, INC, DEC, PUSH to replace a single operation that pushes an int.
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11:51:11 <cpressey> Yeah I don't know. I need to play with a LC interpreter to get a better feel for it. But it might be that the function representing the opaque data structure has no choice but to trust the functions that are passed into it. i.e. it asks them to evaluate functions that it gives them. That won't work.
11:53:25 <cpressey> If untyped LC can't implement this, that's not the end of the world -- I mean, TMs can't implement it either. And neither can term rewriting. But LC feels like it should stand a better chance :)
12:02:30 <b_jonas> yeah, you can just choose a different language, one that is more prepared for this sort of thing
12:03:26 <b_jonas> running untrusted code safely just isn't the goal of lambda calculus
12:04:09 <tromp> typed lC let's you rule out untrusted code
12:04:51 <b_jonas> tromp: yes, that's how Haskell's IO is supposed to work
12:05:33 <cpressey> My goal is to find the simplest language in which you can build opaque data structures
12:05:35 <b_jonas> your safe code is running but can't have side effects, it just returns an IO value that tells the IO manager what side ffect you want
12:06:29 <cpressey> In untyped LC, if the caller passes you a "boolean" x, can you not just "clean" the boolean by saying: IF X T F
12:07:04 <tromp> that does nothing when x = K (K evil)
12:07:07 <cpressey> IF x T F ... should always evaluate to either T, or F, or won't terminate
12:08:27 <b_jonas> cpressey: I don't think that helps if you're still in lambda calculus
12:09:02 <b_jonas> you have a value that you think might be T and F, the only way you can use it (if you want to distinguish T from F) is to call it
12:09:05 <tromp> IF (K(K evil)) T F = evil
12:10:34 <b_jonas> in the usual representation, true is just (\x\y.y) and false is (\x\y.x) and if is just identity
12:10:51 <b_jonas> they don't actually laundher the booleans, they just pass them unchanged
12:11:25 <b_jonas> there are other representations of booleans, but they aren't better
12:11:37 <cpressey> OK. So to turn the question around, is it possible to devise an encoding in which IF x T F can only ever evaluate to T or F or fail to terminate?
12:12:09 <b_jonas> not in untyped lambda calculus that is
12:12:27 <b_jonas> you may be able to in some larger languages
12:13:23 <cpressey> Well, yes, obviously it's possible to define a language that guarantees that. The question for me right now is, what is the essense of that guarantee
12:13:34 <cpressey> and it looks like I won't find that essence in untyped lambda calculus :)
12:14:11 <b_jonas> a necesary requirement is that you can do something with values other than call them as a function
12:14:19 <b_jonas> in untyped lambda calculus you can't
12:14:25 <b_jonas> nor in unlambda or underload
12:15:58 <b_jonas> this is not a sufficient requirement of course
12:16:18 <b_jonas> like in undereload you can actually do one more thing with values besides call them as a function: you can print them
12:16:26 <b_jonas> but that just isn't useful
12:16:58 <b_jonas> dc is close to that kind of silliness with strings too
12:18:01 <b_jonas> you can eval a string, or you can take its length, or you can print it, but you can't break it to characters and get the ascii value of each character
12:23:36 <cpressey> "My goal is to find the simplest language" <-- of course "simplest" is somewhat subjective. Just trying to help frame the problem. I'm actually thinking of the Actor model right now. Actors are opaque wrt each other.
12:29:52 <cpressey> (Interestingly, historically Scheme developed as an attempt to better understand the Actor model; but from what I remember reading about it, I don't think "opacity of data structures" played a major part in it)
12:32:12 <cpressey> But, yes. The thing that defeats it in untyped LC, is that "all data is code". If you have "some data isn't code", that's one way to build around it. (Whereas in a Turing machine, "no data is code"... at least, not until you build a UTM.)
12:59:44 <esolangs> [[Extension]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119875&oldid=109561 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-3)
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16:51:32 <Koen> b_jonas: is it okay if I take our discussion from the other day about pattern-matching on arbitrary expressions, and try to use it to write an answer to the stackexchange question?
16:53:07 <b_jonas> feel free to write an answer
16:53:55 <b_jonas> I don't think I have a good enough complete answer and I don't want to figure it out so I won't write one
16:54:26 <b_jonas> I don't know enough about the computability part to know if you can make some sense of this
16:58:35 <Koen> well, it shouldn't be too hard to write a language interpreter that runs a solver on expressions and tries to turn "case y of expr(x) = ..." into "if y in image(expr) then let x = expr^-1(y) ..."
16:59:40 <Koen> you just run a paradox if you assume that the solver can deal with all expressions, including expressions that rely on the solver
17:07:42 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119880 * NameGoesThere * (+439) Created page with "JamogusLamogusAmogus (refer to it as "Jlamogus" in formal situations) is a very "sussy" esoteric interpreted programming language made in python. JamogusLamogusAmogus uses the incredibly unique file extension of "". List of JamogusLamogusAmogus' funct
17:19:13 <b_jonas> Koen: yes, but (1) you have to be careful to evaluate the expression in parallel (triangle style) for all possible values of the variable
17:19:31 <Koen> not sure what that means
17:19:50 <b_jonas> and (2) you need to be able to generate all possible values of the variable in sequence, even when there are infintely many of them and it may be a function type
17:20:27 <b_jonas> say you're trying a match like like let [f x] = y
17:20:37 <b_jonas> f may be a complicated function, right?
17:21:00 <b_jonas> so the way you do that is try various values of x by calling the function and see when the output matches y
17:21:22 <b_jonas> but the problem is, sometimes f doesn't terminate
17:21:24 <Koen> oh, I would hope the solver is smarter than just try things randomly
17:22:07 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119881&oldid=119880 * NameGoesThere * (+729) added more stuff idk
17:22:24 <tromp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dovetailing_(computer_science)
17:22:54 <b_jonas> is that what it's called? okay
17:25:54 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119882&oldid=119881 * NameGoesThere * (+3890) added hello world and how to run
17:28:44 <tromp> related: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/control-monad-omega-0.3.2/docs/Control-Monad-Omega.html
17:28:46 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119883&oldid=119882 * NameGoesThere * (+38)
17:30:15 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119884&oldid=119883 * NameGoesThere * (-18) /* Jlamogus.py: */
17:31:09 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119885&oldid=119884 * NameGoesThere * (+1) /* Jlamogus.py: */
17:31:29 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119886&oldid=119885 * NameGoesThere * (+1) /* Jlamogus.py: */
17:32:01 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119887&oldid=119886 * NameGoesThere * (+0) /* Jlamogus.py: */
17:33:50 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119888&oldid=119887 * NameGoesThere * (+4) /* Hello World in JamogusLamogusAmogus: */
17:34:09 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119889&oldid=119888 * NameGoesThere * (+7) /* Running "." files: */
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18:07:24 <Koen> okay, I posted an answer https://langdev.stackexchange.com/questions/3194/are-there-haskell-like-languages-where-equations-allow-for-arbitrary-left-hand-s/3249#3249
18:08:44 <Koen> feel free to criticise. Also I acknowledged your help at the end and made it "community wiki" so feel free to edit directly if you want to (even to remove your name if you want anonymity)
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18:27:43 <Guest38> Any server/channel to investigate human design?
18:28:13 <ais523> what do you mean by human design?
18:28:29 <Guest38> sorry for the translations, I'm using google
18:29:15 <Guest38> is my summary of human design
18:29:20 <ais523> I'm still not sure what you mean, but suspect that this is the wrong channel to ask in
18:30:28 <Guest38> I am looking for a server/channel focused on esotericism
18:31:28 <Guest38> 75 users for the site, that seems like a lot to me
18:32:06 <ais523> oh, this channel is about esoteric programming languages, but this question comes up occasionally
18:32:11 <HackEso> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
18:32:32 <ais523> there, there's a couple of channels you might want to try instead
18:32:52 <ais523> I'm not sure how active they are nowadays though
18:33:10 <Guest38> Thank you very much, programmers!
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18:36:00 <b_jonas> I have no idea if those channels that that thing redirects to are actually still alive
18:36:29 <b_jonas> ``` hg log --removed -T "{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{desc}\n" /hackenv/wisdom/esoteric
18:36:32 <HackEso> 9071|2016-09-25|<fizzie> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 9070|2016-09-25|<evilipse> ` chmod 777 / -R \ 5897|2015-08-13|<int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ 5895|2015-08-12|<ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ 5442|2015-06-07|<oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/on .*/on EFnet or DALnet./\' wisdom/esoteric \ 3343|2013-07-31|<Bike> revert \ 3342|2013-07-31|<FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 1716|2013-01-24|<Gregor> hg diff -r1703:170
18:36:34 <ais523> nor do I – I think last time we checked one of them was kind-of limping along
18:37:12 <b_jonas> that's not that old, given that #esolangs is 20 years old
18:39:16 <ais523> well, #esoteric is that old, #esolangs is much newer because Libera hasn't been around that much, but it's the same channel in spirit
18:39:37 <ais523> – apparently to the extent that people can mistake the topic even after we changed the channel name to be more precise
18:39:41 <b_jonas> ``` hg log --removed -T "{rev}|{date|shortdate}|{desc}\n" -r 378 /hackenv/wisdom/welcome
18:39:43 <HackEso> 378|2012-05-06|<elliott> learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:39:59 <b_jonas> so the mention of Dalnet there was added in 2012
18:44:22 <fizzie> netsplit.de doesn't find an #esoteric in either DALnet or EFnet; though there is #luciferianism in EFnet that has the word in its topic, but that sounds more specific.
18:44:46 <fizzie> > 38 users - 42 minutes ago - current topic: ðð¥☀️w/ #satanism |Damn 'God'. Hail Lucifer!| www.mathematicon.com fox.com/lucifer gnosis.org #atheism #esoteric #gnosis #pagan #spiritual
18:44:47 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:45: error: lexical error at character '\159'
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19:27:40 <esolangs> [[User:NameGoesThere]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119891 * NameGoesThere * (+70) Created page with "Hello this is my page ok bye. I made this - *[[JamogusLamogusAmogus]]"
19:27:55 <esolangs> [[User:NameGoesThere]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119892&oldid=119891 * NameGoesThere * (-1)
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20:02:34 <esolangs> [[.mOdMoDwOrM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119893&oldid=89807 * Squidmanescape * (+1771) /* Turing completeness */
20:07:54 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119894&oldid=119889 * NameGoesThere * (-32) /* Hello World x10 in JamogusLamogusAmogus: */
20:22:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:NameGoesThere]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119895 * NameGoesThere * (+39) Created page with "This is another one of my pages ok bye."
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20:45:48 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119898&oldid=119897 * NameGoesThere * (-143) /* Hello World (x10) */
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04:03:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119910&oldid=119868 * DifferentDance8 * (+258) /* Introductions */
04:03:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119911&oldid=119910 * DifferentDance8 * (+108)
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05:43:01 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119912&oldid=118933 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-54) /* Bitwise Cyclic Tag */
06:33:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119913&oldid=118886 * Redisnotblue * (+10)
06:34:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119914&oldid=119913 * Redisnotblue * (+3)
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06:36:36 <esolangs> [[English+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119916 * Redisnotblue * (+57) Created page with "English+ is an unreleased esolang. Owned by redisnotblue."
06:36:57 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119917&oldid=119916 * Redisnotblue * (+14)
06:38:20 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119918&oldid=119917 * Redisnotblue * (+20) /* See Also */
06:39:35 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119919&oldid=119918 * Redisnotblue * (-4) /* See Also */
06:40:16 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119920&oldid=119919 * Redisnotblue * (+17) /* See Also */
06:41:34 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119921&oldid=119920 * Redisnotblue * (+11) Added see also
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13:06:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119933&oldid=119774 * None1 * (+114) /* Shortest lang interpreter you'll ever see */ Though someone has asked this before
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14:17:16 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119935&oldid=119898 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+112) Formatting, categories
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15:37:35 <cpressey> b_jonas, tromp: Thank you for the discussion yesterday. There's a tradition in functional programming languages for function values to be opaque and it was useful for me to have it hammered home that this is *not* a heritage from the lambda calculus
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16:35:36 <b_jonas> As far as I know, function values are opaque mostly for convenience, because it's hard to define a stable interface to examine a function that still allows your language to be extended with new features that you can use in a function and/or new optimizations. Functions are kind-of opaque in C too. In theory if you're on a specific architecture, there's nothing stopping you from reading the bytes of the
16:35:42 <b_jonas> code of a function (and everything else that it references), because the CPU rules and the ABI are known, it's just that there's not much useful that you can do with that other than reverse-engineering and malware detection.
16:36:23 <b_jonas> Not just the code, mind you, you can also read all the debug information that's compiled for your executable.
16:36:54 <b_jonas> With full debug information, you can find out about the prototype of the function, all its local variables and how they're represented at runtime, etc.
16:38:40 <b_jonas> And then there's perl, which has the O module that lets you examine the insides of functions (it lets you examine basically all of perl's internals, but the inside of functions is the important part here).
16:39:10 <b_jonas> Occasionally people even do something weird with this.
16:39:38 <b_jonas> The J language also lets you examine the insides of user-defined functions.
17:26:30 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119938 * Osmarks * (+4175) Created page with "osmarkscalculator is an esolang based on rewrite rules. == Syntax == osmarkscalculator expressions can be numbers (nonnegative integers in base 10), identifiers (made of any sequence of characters not reserved for anything else), operator invocations (parsed
17:27:08 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119939&oldid=119938 * Osmarks * (+222)
17:28:51 <esolangs> [[User:Osmarks/2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119940&oldid=86244 * Osmarks * (+24)
17:28:56 <zzo38> In PostScript they can be examined (and modified) by default but you can write "executeonly" to prevent them from being examined in this way. (Although I think some instruction sets also have a "execute only" mode, or at least to prevent reading by anyone other than that function itself?)
17:30:39 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119941&oldid=119939 * Osmarks * (+264) infobox
17:30:58 <b_jonas> as far as I recall, some processor architectures support pages with execute right but no read rights, but x86 doesn't
17:31:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119942&oldid=119937 * Osmarks * (+24) add osmarkscalculator
17:33:18 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119943&oldid=119941 * Osmarks * (+1)
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18:27:55 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119944&oldid=119943 * Osmarks * (+1)
18:34:19 <fizzie> There's also the (pure) Harvard vs. von Neumann architecture split, where the former have (conceptually) separate instruction and data memories, and you can't inspect the code of a function, at least without using whatever escape hatch the particular architecture offers to make it possible to dynamically load programs in the first place.
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19:28:58 <zzo38> I think some computers have a pin for program/data so that it is possible to be implemented separately or not separately.
19:29:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: there are systems where code and data are separate but you can read both (with different instructions), but I'm not sure those would count as Harvard
19:29:47 <b_jonas> funnily there are also multiple systems (mostly old with small amount of memory) where data and stack are separate (so that the CPU can implement the stack efficiently)
19:30:06 <b_jonas> and there's one new one among those with data and stack separate: MMIX
19:30:35 <b_jonas> older ones include Forth and some old microprocessors
19:30:58 <b_jonas> heck, Forth is even funnier because it has a heap, data stack, and return stack all separate
19:31:28 <zzo38> Many VMs also have data and stack separate (even if the program is not separate), such as: uxn, Z-machine, etc
19:33:05 <b_jonas> then there's Borland C's small memory model, where code, data, and stack are in separate segments, and pointers know which segment they refer to in type, which has the interesting consequence that scanf can only read into values on the stack.
19:35:10 <zzo38> That is true on PC even if you are not writing in C, although it is possible to assign them to the same segments too
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19:41:43 <b_jonas> Magic-1 has separate address space for data and code, mostly because the addresses are just 16 bit wide so the address space is small. both of them are paged. and there's a CPU instruction for reading from code. well, two, because there's an 8-bit and a 16-bit code read instruction.
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00:05:02 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119945&oldid=119944 * Osmarks * (+20)
00:11:01 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119946&oldid=119945 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+83) /* osmarkscalculator */ Categories
00:15:52 <esolangs> [[Headache]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119947&oldid=117197 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+70) Link to HA
00:18:25 <esolangs> [[HA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119948&oldid=119392 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+68) Link to disambiguation page
00:20:10 <esolangs> [[HA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119949&oldid=119948 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+127) Categories
00:29:19 <esolangs> [[.mOdMoDwOrM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119950&oldid=119893 * Squidmanescape * (+759) /* Turing completeness */
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06:52:19 <zzo38> There is three kind of runs (homogeneous, heterogeneous, copy-above), and three attributes of each tile (kind, colour, parameter), and the kind of run can be set independently for each attribute. What is the way to figure out which kinds of runs should be used?
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12:23:28 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119951&oldid=119935 * MihaiEso * (+17)
14:03:42 <esolangs> [[Peter Larsen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119952&oldid=24595 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+26) Wayback
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16:10:50 <tromp> interesting fact: lambda term (λ 1 1) (λ (λ λ λ 1 (λ 1 (4 (λ 4 (λ λ 3 (λ 1 2 3)))) (4 (λ 5 (λ 5 (λ 3 1 (2 1)))))) ((λ 1 1) (λ λ λ 1 (2 (λ 1 2)) (3 3 (λ 3 (λ 2 (1 3))))) 2)) (1 1)) (λ 1 1) contains all closed lambda terms in its expansion
16:13:28 <riv> that's cool!
16:13:42 <tromp> you can obtain any particular term by repeatedly applying the above to a series of bits
16:14:08 <tromp> for example, identity = T 0 0 1 0
16:14:27 <tromp> where 0 is boolean true and 1 is boolean false
16:18:27 <tromp> 0010 happens to be the binary lambda calculus code for identity....
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17:30:05 <esolangs> [[Imperator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119953&oldid=118949 * Jaip * (-49)
17:33:15 <esolangs> [[SEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119954&oldid=109034 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3) Change decryption
17:43:44 <esolangs> [[SEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119955&oldid=119954 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+58)
17:53:33 <esolangs> [[NonSkip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119956&oldid=107292 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-2)
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19:05:26 <esolangs> [[Dead fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119957&oldid=118606 * ApisNecros * (+139) /* Truth Machine */ Add golfed version
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19:39:18 <esolangs> [[User:ApisNecros]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119958&oldid=107983 * ApisNecros * (-16) Add "Languages I Use" section
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20:48:53 <tromp> this shorter one contains all S K combinators, and thus also all lambda terms:
20:48:55 <tromp> (λ 1 1) (λ (λ λ λ 1 (λ 3 (1 1 (λ λ λ 3 1 (2 1)))) (3 (λ 4 (λ 4 (2 1))))) (1 1)) (λ 1)
20:49:42 <tromp> all software in the world contained in a one liner:-)
21:29:37 <tromp> or using single point basis {A}:
21:29:39 <tromp> (λ 1 1) (λ (λ λ λ 1 (2 (λ λ λ 3 1 (2 (λ 2)))) (3 (λ 4 (λ 4 (2 1))))) (1 1)) (λ 1)
21:29:48 <tromp> which is exactly 100 bits
22:04:24 <esolangs> [[English]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119959&oldid=119915 * Europe2048 * (+177) Added errors.
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01:02:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119960&oldid=119933 * Salpynx * (+61) I guess this isn't the shortest interpreter you will "see", but it's the shortest.
03:27:39 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119961&oldid=88347 * MihaiEso * (+57)
03:28:12 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119962&oldid=119961 * MihaiEso * (+38)
03:29:58 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119963&oldid=119936 * MihaiEso * (+2) Unreleased = unimplemented!
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06:07:12 <esolangs> [[INJUQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119964&oldid=108309 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+49)
06:07:30 <esolangs> [[INJUQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119965&oldid=119964 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
06:08:26 <esolangs> [[SUBBIG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119966&oldid=108348 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+16)
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06:10:36 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119967&oldid=119962 * None1 * (+56)
06:11:54 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119968&oldid=119967 * None1 * (+57)
06:13:16 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119969&oldid=119968 * None1 * (+40)
06:14:35 <esolangs> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119970&oldid=119969 * None1 * (+56)
06:17:50 <esolangs> [[INJUQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119971&oldid=119965 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+40)
06:20:20 <esolangs> [[Dead fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119972&oldid=119957 * None1 * (+0) /* Commands */
06:21:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:Dead fish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119973 * None1 * (+202) Created page with "I think I said that the accumulator contains value from 0 to 18446744073709551615, so will the smaller truth machine work? --~~~~"
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09:14:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Redisnotblue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119974&oldid=119934 * Redisnotblue * (+116) /* Secret text? */
09:14:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Redisnotblue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119975&oldid=119974 * Redisnotblue * (+1)
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09:15:43 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119976&oldid=119963 * Redisnotblue * (+13)
09:19:09 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119977&oldid=119976 * Redisnotblue * (+28)
09:19:43 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119978&oldid=119977 * Redisnotblue * (+14)
09:26:12 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119979&oldid=119978 * Redisnotblue * (+383)
09:28:11 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119980&oldid=119979 * Redisnotblue * (+39)
09:30:18 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119981&oldid=119980 * Redisnotblue * (+10)
09:32:22 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119982&oldid=119981 * Redisnotblue * (+37)
09:34:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119983&oldid=119911 * Redisnotblue * (+64)
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11:56:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ofiuaebw * New user account
12:15:47 <esolangs> [[User:Rignchen/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119984 * Rignchen * (+36) Created page with "pre,.mw-code { overflow-x: auto; }"
13:05:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bawkbawk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119985&oldid=116364 * Lilchiky * (+142)
13:05:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bawkbawk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119986&oldid=119985 * Lilchiky * (+1)
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14:58:20 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119987&oldid=119637 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+11) /* 2023 */
15:02:05 <esolangs> [[SEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119988&oldid=119955 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+149)
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15:38:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * ChuckEsoteric08 * moved [[Mountain]] to [[Mountain/Old]]
15:46:20 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119991&oldid=119990 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+805) Removed redirect to [[Mountain/Old]]
15:47:32 <esolangs> [[Mountain/Old]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119992&oldid=119989 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-9)
15:47:38 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119993&oldid=119987 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+41)
15:51:06 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119994&oldid=119991 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+75)
15:56:47 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119995&oldid=119994 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+179)
16:11:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119996&oldid=119914 * NameGoesThere * (+43) /* Important Math Formulas */
16:28:43 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119997&oldid=119995 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) Formatting
16:29:28 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119998&oldid=119997 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* Computational class */ Category
16:38:07 <esolangs> [[User:Simple9371]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119999&oldid=108838 * Simple9371 * (-156) Remove some sentences
16:39:02 <esolangs> [[User:Simple9371]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120000&oldid=119999 * Simple9371 * (+12)
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17:14:13 <esolangs> [[KnightJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120001&oldid=115971 * * (-50) Implementation link moves to repository.
17:16:53 <esolangs> [[LRL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120002&oldid=118956 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+122)
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19:27:31 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120003&oldid=119982 * Redisnotblue * (-33)
19:28:15 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120004&oldid=120003 * Redisnotblue * (+24)
19:32:53 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120005&oldid=120004 * Redisnotblue * (+395) /* Logic operators */
19:34:13 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120006&oldid=120005 * Redisnotblue * (+22) /* Examples */
19:35:48 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120007&oldid=120006 * Redisnotblue * (+31) /* Hello World */
19:41:41 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120008&oldid=120007 * Redisnotblue * (+0)
19:41:51 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120009&oldid=120008 * Redisnotblue * (+1) /* Hello World */
19:42:50 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120010&oldid=120009 * Redisnotblue * (+13) /* Hello World */
19:44:14 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120011&oldid=120010 * Redisnotblue * (-12) /* Hello World */
19:46:12 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120012&oldid=120011 * Redisnotblue * (+165) /* Syntax */
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19:47:49 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120013&oldid=120012 * Redisnotblue * (+14) /* Examples */
19:50:28 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120014&oldid=120013 * Redisnotblue * (+21)
19:51:04 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120015&oldid=120014 * Redisnotblue * (+7)
19:51:14 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120016&oldid=120015 * Redisnotblue * (+5) /* Cat */
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22:29:54 <fizzie> Hmf. In preparation for this year's AoC, I've been setting up some scaffolding for Z80 assembly solutions, and I just got enough of it done to be able to run a thing, plus Z80 routines for input and output of 16-bit integers, and a test program for 2022 day 1 part 1, and then it turns the answer was 69836, which just barely doesn't fit in 16 bits.
22:30:12 <fizzie> Oh well. I guess most AoC puzzles would involve larger numbers anyway.
22:55:38 <b_jonas> yeah, you should definitely expect to need numbers larger than 16 bit size for this.
22:56:37 <fizzie> I eyeballed my puzzle inputs for day 1, part 1 and it _looked_ like it might possibly fit.
22:56:53 <fizzie> Not sure why I just didn't look at the answer though.
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23:37:30 <b_jonas> fungot, if a font draws the letter "x" like a turned c and a c ran together, what is the decent term to describe that shape if I don't want to call it asscrack shaped?
23:37:30 <fungot> b_jonas: there have been fnord :) :) :) :)
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23:43:41 <fizzie> I thought there might be a fancy name for it in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Piecewise-circular_curves because there's a bunch of obscure ones made out of arcs, but apparently not.
23:57:55 <b_jonas> I guess I'll have to invent a fancy-sounding term like bilunate
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03:46:21 <HackEso> A device is a browser session. Please verify your device.
04:18:45 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/password
04:21:20 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is adventageous reindeer nosebleed.
04:21:23 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is adventageous reindeer nosebleed.
04:58:46 <b_jonas> wow, that's the earliest within the month password in recent history
05:14:31 <int-e> well AoC kind of made me aware of the start of the month
05:15:43 <ais523> I was aware of it because of a NetHack tournament ending (TNNT)
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07:20:31 <esolangs> [[Numberf***]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=120017 * MihaiEso * (+24) Redirected page to [[Numberfuck]]
07:21:10 <esolangs> [[Numberf**k]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=120018 * MihaiEso * (+24) Redirected page to [[Numberfuck]]
07:22:58 <esolangs> [[User: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120019&oldid=115819 * MihaiEso * (+1) Fixed grammar.
08:32:55 <esolangs> [[Programming abillities of different esolangs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120020&oldid=117999 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* Sreg */
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10:46:27 <fizzie> Couldn't really get around spelling all the digit words out in the Burlesque version.
10:47:30 <fizzie> `blsq "1one2two3three4four5five6six7seven8eight9nine"{><}gB " using this to at least encode them relatively compactly and handle both words and numbers in one go "vv
10:47:31 <HackEso> {"1" "one" "2" "two" "3" "three" "4" "four" "5" "five" "6" "six" "7" "seven" "8" "eight" "9" "nine"}
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10:51:44 <fizzie> There's possibly also something better than J-]j[~.+ri and J-]j[~_+10ug to make two-digit numbers out of the first and last digits of "12345" and {1 2 3 4 5} respectively, but after 11 months I'm feeling quite rusty in Burlesque again.
11:04:55 <fizzie> Also: new year, new index.html for the graphs: https://zem.fi/misc/aoc/
11:39:49 <HackEso> aoc Advent of Code (AoC) is a series of programming puzzles that some regulars enjoy, found at "https://adventofcode.com/about"
11:50:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JacopTiem * New user account
11:54:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120021&oldid=119983 * JacopTiem * (+112)
11:58:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120022&oldid=119996 * JacopTiem * (+81) sus
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12:11:01 <esolangs> [[Dat is Dis]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=120023 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+497) Created page with "{{Stub}} '''Dat is Dis''' - is a version of [[Dis]] created by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] which has infinite memory. ==Changes== Now each address contains unbounded amount if trits, all of which are initially 0. Each conmand would only access a finite amount of
12:26:11 <esolangs> [[User:Mkukiro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120024&oldid=119545 * Mkukiro * (+9)
12:27:33 <esolangs> [[User:Mkukiro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120025&oldid=120024 * Mkukiro * (+171)
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