[...]
00:44:16 <ais523> I still don't have a good intuitive feel for the performance of fat pointers versus having a pointer from object to class
00:44:44 <ais523> the pointer-from-object-to-class will usually save memory because most objects have more than one reference and few have less than one reference, but it also introduces an extra layer of indirection
00:44:51 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157475&oldid=157464 * Hotcrystal0 * (+22)
00:45:09 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157476&oldid=157475 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
00:46:05 <korvo> Yeah. Fat pointers might be more compelling if they offered some useful functionality. I find it very cool that we can change the class/traits of an object merely by replacing half of the fat pointer, and I know that Rust strings use this sort of optimization.
00:47:02 <korvo> But Smalltalk-style become: is really about the limit of what can be done that way. I think that it is a powerful way to have a system where objects are *inside* of another system which routes them; today there's Kafka and k8s, but I remember Zope and Twisted Axiom too.
00:49:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157477&oldid=157425 * PrySigneToFry * (-75) Qu'vatlh.
00:50:07 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
00:55:08 <esolangs> [[Free Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157478&oldid=157025 * PrySigneToFry * (+109)
00:56:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157479&oldid=157453 * Helpeesl * (+694) /* There are categories that exist but arent on here */ new section
00:59:00 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157480&oldid=156254 * PrySigneToFry * (+159)
01:06:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157481&oldid=157479 * Ais523 * (+573) /* There are categories that exist but arent on here */ how this happens
01:08:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157482&oldid=157477 * Aadenboy * (+75) hey could you not do that
01:10:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157483&oldid=157481 * Ais523 * (+859) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */ I don't think this is worth a category yet, but it may be in the future
01:12:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157484&oldid=157483 * Ais523 * (+562) /* Counter-based languages */ some thoughts about definition
01:18:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157485&oldid=157484 * Helpeesl * (+74) /* There are categories that exist but arent on here */
01:22:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157486&oldid=157485 * Helpeesl * (+89) This is my first time leaving a comment
01:28:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157487&oldid=157472 * Ais523 * (+517) /* How to sign your comments */ new section
01:32:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157488&oldid=157147 * Helpeesl * (+493) /* I have a question about the unnoticed categories */ new section
01:34:34 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157489&oldid=157432 * RainbowDash * (+0)
01:39:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157490&oldid=157488 * Ais523 * (+1444) /* I have a question about the unnoticed categories */ reply
02:01:36 -!- tromp has joined.
02:02:05 -!- tromp has quit (Client Quit).
02:04:12 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Self-terminating powers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157491 * Aadenboy * (+12754) interesting math thing I found
02:04:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[User:Aadenboy/Self-terminating powers]] to [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]]: rename
02:05:02 -!- op_4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:05:06 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157494&oldid=157428 * Aadenboy * (+41) /* anything else */ [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling powers]]
02:05:25 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157495&oldid=157494 * Aadenboy * (+1) /* anything else */
02:05:32 -!- op_4 has joined.
02:49:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157496&oldid=157486 * Helpeesl * (+782) /* Poll about some potential new categories being added (ends June 1st) */ new section
02:55:01 <esolangs> [[Flow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157497&oldid=157439 * Helpeesl * (+9)
03:35:55 -!- Noisytoot has left (Leaving).
03:49:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157498&oldid=157496 * Ais523 * (+282) /* Poll about some potential new categories being added (ends June 1st) */ decisions are normally made by discussion, not polling
04:02:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
04:15:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157499&oldid=157473 * I am islptng * (+726) ???
04:27:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157500&oldid=157463 * I am islptng * (+278)
04:45:37 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
04:57:10 -!- zzo38 has joined.
05:03:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157501&oldid=157500 * Pifrited * (+195)
05:13:52 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:14:14 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
05:27:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157502&oldid=157482 * PrySigneToFry * (+89) VerdanaVerdana ProYu GothicDotum
05:49:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157503&oldid=157502 * Ais523 * (-89) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157502|157502]] by [[Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|PrySigneToFry]] ([[User talk:PrySigneToFry|talk]]) please don't restyle other peoples' user pages against their wishes
05:50:25 <esolangs> [[Echo Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157504&oldid=115682 * Ais523 * (+25) /* See also */ +[[Symmetric Echo Tag]]
05:51:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
06:21:06 -!- tromp has joined.
06:42:49 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
06:51:53 -!- tromp has joined.
07:34:56 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
08:08:01 <esolangs> [[Indicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157505&oldid=151699 * Gilbert189 * (-59) wow I had no idea what this is supposed to mean
08:50:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:04:18 -!- razetime has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.).
09:21:20 -!- visilii_ has joined.
09:22:04 -!- visilii has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
09:26:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157506 * PkmnQ * (+618) Created page with "Looking at things a bit closer, I think I can see a more specific pattern. The amount of self-equaling squares for a base seems to be <math>2^{\omega(n)}</math>, where <math>\omega(n)</math> is the number of unique prime factors <math>n</ma
09:37:26 <esolangs> [[Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157507&oldid=156481 * Neon * (-107)
09:38:30 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157508 * CreeperBomb * (+6039) Created page with "/* WikimediaUI Dark Mode * * Wikimedia Design Team 2019-2021 * Original authors: * - Volker E. [[User:Volker_E._(WMF)]] * - Alex Hollender * - MusikAnimal * - Carolyn Li-Madeo * - Jdlrobson * * Original at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
09:44:58 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157509 * CreeperBomb * (+1205) Created page with "/* * WikimediaUI Dark Mode * * Original authors: * - Volker E. (Wikimedia Foundation Product Design) * - Alex Hollender (Wikimedia Foundation Product Design) * - Ed Sanders * - MusikAnimal * * Last updated: 2020-04-24 */ // Load depen
09:47:13 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.js]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157510&oldid=157509 * CreeperBomb * (-1205) Blanked the page
09:47:49 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157511&oldid=157508 * CreeperBomb * (-297)
09:48:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:CreeperBomb/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157512 * CreeperBomb * (+286) Created page with "Note: makes logo evil ~~~~"
10:12:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Neon * uploaded "[[File:ASCII Table (suitable for printing).svg.png]]"
10:19:32 <esolangs> [[LargeFish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157514&oldid=157468 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-26) This lang is just variable-based.
10:22:24 <esolangs> [[Expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157515&oldid=156346 * Krolkrol * (-26)
10:43:03 -!- FreeFull has quit.
11:13:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:PUBERTY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157516&oldid=141380 * DifferentDance8 * (+153)
11:49:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157517&oldid=157499 * PrySigneToFry * (+627) /* */ new section
11:51:37 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157518&oldid=157476 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
13:36:56 -!- impomatic has joined.
13:37:30 -!- amby has joined.
14:13:40 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
14:17:14 -!- amby has joined.
14:50:23 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:50:45 -!- amby has joined.
15:01:14 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157519&oldid=157518 * Hotcrystal0 * (+28)
15:02:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AndyShow1000000 * New user account
15:09:23 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:09:51 -!- amby has joined.
16:58:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157520&oldid=157411 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+306) /* Rating */
17:00:44 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157521&oldid=157353 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+53) /* Users */
17:02:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157522&oldid=157520 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+107) /* Rating */
17:12:41 -!- tromp has joined.
17:12:47 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157523&oldid=157521 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-213) /* My esolangs */
17:17:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157524&oldid=157506 * Aadenboy * (+1342)
17:31:48 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157525&oldid=157365 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+934)
17:34:03 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157526&oldid=157523 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+28) /* Other stuff */
17:46:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157527&oldid=157498 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+525) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */
17:49:54 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157528&oldid=157259 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+48)
17:52:08 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
17:58:05 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157529&oldid=157528 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-97) /* Implementations */
17:58:13 -!- tromp has joined.
18:10:12 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
18:18:15 -!- tromp has joined.
18:30:30 -!- chloetax has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:33:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157530&oldid=156049 * PlaceReporter99 * (+0) /* Tests */
18:34:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157531&oldid=157530 * PlaceReporter99 * (+29)
18:40:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157532&oldid=157524 * Aadenboy * (+366)
18:47:37 <esolangs> [[lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157533&oldid=153622 * PlaceReporter99 * (+196) /* Lua Interpreter */
18:47:47 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:49:08 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
19:01:51 -!- APic has joined.
19:08:18 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:18:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157534&oldid=157526 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+19) /* Other stuff */
19:19:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157535&oldid=157527 * Ais523 * (+1373) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */ I think this would be more useful for readers as a list rather than as a category, and here's why
19:22:58 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
19:26:22 -!- Hooloovoo has joined.
19:28:45 -!- APic has quit (Quit: Fnord).
19:29:31 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157536&oldid=157231 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+568)
19:30:23 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157537&oldid=157534 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Other stuff */
19:53:05 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
20:17:01 -!- chloetax has joined.
20:19:03 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
20:44:22 -!- tromp has joined.
21:42:12 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets/OMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157538&oldid=157412 * Buckets * (+567)
21:42:16 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
21:44:10 <esolangs> [[Sipes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157539&oldid=151824 * Buckets * (+1)
21:47:26 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157540&oldid=157311 * Buckets * (+6)
21:50:27 -!- tromp has joined.
22:01:38 <esolangs> [[Snub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157541&oldid=156393 * Buckets * (+402)
22:02:20 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:30:37 <esolangs> [[Sundays]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157542&oldid=152096 * Buckets * (+102)
22:42:05 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
22:42:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:43:28 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
00:33:54 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
01:33:25 <esolangs> [[Zephyr ASDL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157543&oldid=156962 * Corbin * (+11) Also influenced Monte, unsurprisingly.
03:00:00 -!- Taneb0 has quit (Quit: I seem to have stopped.).
03:01:10 -!- Taneb has joined.
03:40:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157544 * I am islptng * (+648) Created page with "Have a look at [[Underload]]. --~~~~"
05:15:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157545&oldid=157409 * None1 * (+334) /* What counts as a machine? */
05:53:26 <zzo38> What philosophy is that everything (physically, mathematically, or otherwise) exists but only in relation to everything else that exists, and these relations also exist but also only due to what can be related by them? (This is not quite what is meant by "relation" in mathematics or in logic though; it is a bit different. Also, by "can be related" I do not mean that there necessarily are any such objects.)
05:55:51 <zzo38> (I also mean that you could start with either the objects or the relations and that it does not matter which for the purpose of this philosophy.)
05:57:41 <zzo38> (Furthermore, it is not the same as the use of "exists" (or other terms) in more specific cases such as existential quantifiers in mathematics)
06:03:22 <zzo38> Looking at Wikipedia about ontology: Platonic says universals exist independently of the mind and of particular objects and Aristotelian says it doesn't. What I mean is different from both though; it allows a universal to exist even if there are no such objects, but nevertheless it is not independent of the objects or of anything else (even if it seems unrelated, it is ultimately related).
06:05:23 <zzo38> For example, numbers are not independent of other numbers or of such things as addition, multiplication, prime factorization, etc.
06:11:29 -!- tromp has joined.
06:18:30 <zzo38> (Although, maybe my explanations probably miss some things because they might not be explained perfectly as I intended to do.)
06:20:22 <esolangs> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157546&oldid=157415 * Truttle1 * (+65)
06:21:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
06:31:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:31:41 <zzo38> (Although, such a "absolute ultimate existence" and "absolute truth" are not describable and expressible anyways; so we will have to do with such approximations of how you mean by philsophy instead.)
06:42:49 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
06:56:04 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:01:43 -!- chiselfuse has joined.
07:15:28 -!- tromp has joined.
08:32:33 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
09:06:38 -!- tromp has joined.
09:45:04 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157547&oldid=157335 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* 99 bottles of beer */
09:51:21 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
09:59:17 -!- tromp has joined.
10:04:59 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157548&oldid=157547 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+367) /* Quine partial */
10:27:44 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157549&oldid=157548 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+303) /* Quine */
10:28:13 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:30:52 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157550&oldid=157537 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-114) /* Current strategy */
10:46:28 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157551&oldid=156259 * DigitalDetective47 * (+101) /* Looks Like */ add wikilang idea
11:05:52 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157552&oldid=157536 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+331)
11:07:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157553&oldid=157544 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+141)
11:09:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157554&oldid=157545 * PrySigneToFry * (+53)
11:13:41 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157555&oldid=157519 * PrySigneToFry * (+19)
11:24:11 -!- amby has joined.
12:20:27 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157556&oldid=157525 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-619)
12:21:07 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157557&oldid=157556 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-3) /* Examples */
12:30:29 <esolangs> [[29]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157558 * JIT * (+1400) Created page with "29 is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 its a challenge from me to me to make a esolang in 29 minites {| class="wikitable" |- ! commands !! what it does |- | strat || start string |- | ned || end string |- | Estr d || store in d |- | p d || print d in ASCII |- | {d} || focus
12:47:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157559&oldid=157433 * JIT * (+9)
12:58:08 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157560&oldid=157389 * JIT * (+45)
13:25:14 -!- APic has joined.
13:28:53 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157561&oldid=157369 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+93)
13:40:52 -!- impomatic has joined.
14:10:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Neon * uploaded "[[File:Irma Logo.png]]"
14:27:39 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
14:57:56 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157563&oldid=155631 * DigitalDetective47 * (-5) change site link
14:58:53 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157564&oldid=157557 * Aadenboy * (-67) reformatting into a list for readability
15:03:29 -!- wib_jonas has joined.
15:03:42 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1325.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
15:08:49 -!- impomatic has joined.
15:19:45 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed).
15:34:13 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157565&oldid=157551 * Ractangle * (-89) /* Looks Like */
15:35:09 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157566&oldid=157565 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Looks Like */
16:00:07 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157567&oldid=106151 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+258)
16:00:44 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157568&oldid=157567 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+89) /* Useful techniques */
16:01:40 -!- molson has joined.
16:16:25 <esolangs> [[Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157569&oldid=157282 * Aadenboy * (-281) /* Arbitrary memory */ rewrite with a link to [[arbitrary memory emulation]]
16:21:51 <esolangs> [[PascalFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157570&oldid=129635 * Aadenboy * (-3) fix double redirect
16:22:38 <esolangs> [[PascalFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157571&oldid=157570 * Aadenboy * (+3) never mind I am not redirecting all of these
16:24:16 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/a]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157572 * Aadenboy * (+29) Redirected page to [[User:Aadenboy/a]]
16:24:37 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/a]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157573&oldid=157572 * Aadenboy * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[User:Aadenboy/a]] to [[User:Aadenboy/b]]
16:24:44 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/b]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157574 * Aadenboy * (+29) Redirected page to [[User:Aadenboy/a]]
16:26:38 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157575&oldid=157564 * Corbin * (+263) Add some history. Sorry, you didn't invent this. Also, punctuation.
16:34:01 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
16:39:15 <esolangs> [[NoError]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157576&oldid=157405 * Brain Boy 53 * (+245)
16:40:17 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157577&oldid=157568 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+521) /* Useful techniques */
16:42:40 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157578&oldid=157577 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Braindead Machine */
16:43:16 -!- impomatic has joined.
17:20:36 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157579&oldid=157578 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+281) /* Braindead Machine */
17:22:56 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157580&oldid=157579 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+75) /* Braindead Machine */
17:30:04 <esolangs> [[Bad command or file name/No Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157581&oldid=132900 * JORE * (+1) /* Quine(I'm going to fool you with invisible characters, lol) */
17:56:38 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
17:56:49 -!- amby has joined.
18:12:15 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
18:26:28 -!- impomatic has joined.
18:40:37 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157582&oldid=157555 * Hotcrystal0 * (+26)
18:46:58 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157583 * PlaceReporter99 * (+94) Created page with " Is an unimplementable programming language that does things that are impossible."
18:49:50 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157584&oldid=157575 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+279) /* Examples */
19:09:33 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157585&oldid=157552 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+35)
19:10:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] to [[Underchaos]]
19:10:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] to [[Talk:Underchaos]]
19:12:51 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157590&oldid=157550 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3)
19:14:43 <esolangs> [[Infinite golfing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157591 * JORE * (+2556) Infinite Golfing
19:25:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transfinity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157592 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+125) Created page with "Why it's classified as uncomputable? ~~~~"
19:30:22 <esolangs> [[Cbazyx]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157593 * * (+2684) Created page with "'''''Cbazyx''''' is an esolang based on Piet's method of running commands based on differences in color, applied to the alphabet. === Commands === The first letter always does nothing. Then the second letter calls an instruction based on how far you would need to rotate a Caesa
19:34:41 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157594&oldid=157587 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+259) Removed redirect to [[Underchaos]]
19:50:59 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157595&oldid=155993 * Aadenboy * (+23252) ehhhh.................
20:29:53 <esolangs> [[Cbazyx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157596&oldid=157593 * * (+253)
20:31:11 <esolangs> [[Cbazyx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157597&oldid=157596 * * (+27)
20:41:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zurek * New user account
21:18:08 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157598&oldid=157590 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2) Hehe, pronouns, also, if you misgender me, your character will be sent to a jail in CA Roleplay Ultimate
21:21:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157599&oldid=157419 * Zurek * (+125)
21:24:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
21:29:35 <esolangs> [[User:Zurek]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157600 * Zurek * (+100) Created page with "= About Me = Hi, I'm '''Zurek'''! I'm here to introduce new esolangs. = My Esolangs = * [["Bosol"]]"
21:30:23 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157601 * Zurek * (+3049) Created page with "'''Bosol''' is an esoteric programming language designed by [[YourUsername]] in 2025. It features a compact set of registers and minimalistic stack and list operations, with a focus on character manipulation and simple flow control. == Overview == Bosol uses a small numb
21:30:56 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157602&oldid=157601 * Zurek * (-7)
21:32:28 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157603&oldid=157602 * Zurek * (+12)
21:32:48 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157604&oldid=157603 * Zurek * (-7)
22:15:18 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:41:52 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
22:42:58 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:43:14 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
23:19:44 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:29:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transfinity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157605&oldid=157592 * PkmnQ * (+771)
23:42:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157606&oldid=156423 * I am islptng * (+1186)
00:29:37 <esolangs> [[AME]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157607 * Aadenboy * (+40) Redirected page to [[Arbitrary memory emulation]]
00:43:26 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157608&oldid=157406 * Aadenboy * (+910) a take on turing-completeness using ame. might be wrong
01:04:36 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
01:51:06 <esolangs> [[WTF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157609 * H33T33 * (+2695) Created page with "{{WIP}} WTF is designed to be incredibly annoying and time-consuming to use. It is very similar to [[C]], but there are some very distinct differences that make it feel unusual to program in. =Overview= ===Commands=== {| class="wikitable" !Command !Description !Example(s) !
01:52:41 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157610&oldid=157609 * H33T33 * (+0)
01:54:06 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157611&oldid=157610 * H33T33 * (-11)
02:59:03 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157612&oldid=157563 * DigitalDetective47 * (+112) add esolang repository
04:39:15 -!- molson has quit (Quit: Leaving).
04:53:17 -!- molson has joined.
04:59:28 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157613&oldid=157611 * H33T33 * (+39)
04:59:40 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157614&oldid=157613 * H33T33 * (-1)
05:02:47 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157615&oldid=157614 * H33T33 * (+7)
05:14:49 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157616&oldid=157615 * H33T33 * (+108)
05:16:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157617&oldid=157490 * I am islptng * (+694)
05:36:18 <zzo38> I think D-bus isn't very good.
05:41:23 <esolangs> [[Staxueue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157618 * I am islptng * (+880) Created page with "<b>Staxueue</b> is an esolang created by islptng. It has a <b>stack-cross-queue (staxueue, or sxq for short)</b>. == The Stack-Cross-Queue == It's just, literally, a stack crossing a queue. Let's visualize it. a b c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 d
05:42:15 <zzo38> (Among other things, it uses XML and Unicode, and seems difficult to use customizable security and proxies.)
05:45:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
05:51:18 <zzo38> (D-bus does have authentication, but I think this isn't the best way to do it. I think requiring strings to be UTF-8 and requiring them to be validated can also be problems, especially since a file name or other text might not be Unicode, and the validation takes time. I also do not like the working of object paths. There are other problems, too.)
06:25:15 <zzo38> (It does have some benefits though, such as using a binary format.)
06:52:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:41:29 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157619&oldid=157583 * Ractangle * (-3)
10:34:58 <esolangs> [[User:Europe2048]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157620&oldid=134409 * Europe2048 * (+68)
10:42:46 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157621&oldid=157580 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-531) /* Useful techniques */
11:00:50 -!- amby has joined.
11:20:29 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157622&oldid=157621 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-11) /* Techniques */
12:09:34 <esolangs> [[Bear]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157623&oldid=151375 * Headless-Axolotl * (+85) changed table formatting
12:20:20 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157624&oldid=157586 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+202)
12:59:21 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157625&oldid=157616 * H33T33 * (+119)
13:14:07 -!- impomatic has joined.
13:19:18 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:31:57 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157626 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+570) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Codesick''' (''COncatenate, DEreference and StrIng-cheCK'') is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]] when they was sick from coding too long. It's an [[OISC]], but instead of bits or numbers, there are... strings. == Memory == There is an infinie namespace
13:45:31 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157627&oldid=157626 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+547)
14:35:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157628&oldid=157606 * Hotcrystal0 * (+452)
14:37:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157629&oldid=157628 * Hotcrystal0 * (-32)
14:46:42 -!- ajal has joined.
14:47:14 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
14:54:24 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157630&oldid=157619 * Aadenboy * (+0)
15:09:17 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157631&oldid=157625 * H33T33 * (+113)
15:16:36 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157632&oldid=157631 * H33T33 * (+166)
15:17:47 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157633&oldid=157632 * H33T33 * (-52)
15:18:25 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157634&oldid=157633 * H33T33 * (+0)
15:32:52 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157635&oldid=157634 * H33T33 * (+159)
15:38:31 -!- impomatic has joined.
17:08:56 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157636&oldid=157635 * H33T33 * (+154)
17:18:51 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157637&oldid=157636 * H33T33 * (+74)
17:38:36 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)).
17:41:37 <esolangs> [[Infinite golfing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157638&oldid=157591 * JORE * (+154)
18:30:01 -!- impomatic has joined.
18:42:03 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157639&oldid=157627 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1356)
18:44:26 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157640&oldid=157639 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-59)
18:46:00 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157641&oldid=157640 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* Instruction */
18:47:04 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157642&oldid=157641 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) /* Computational class */
18:47:56 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157643&oldid=157598 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15) /* My esolangs */
19:12:24 -!- visilii_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
19:16:53 -!- visilii has joined.
19:27:13 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
19:31:12 <esolangs> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157644&oldid=156733 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+200) /* List of OISCs */
19:32:49 <esolangs> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157645&oldid=157644 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* List of OISCs */
19:39:07 <esolangs> [[Hito]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157646&oldid=150449 * TheCanon2 * (+8) Proofreading
19:42:07 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157647&oldid=157642 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Computational class */
21:18:09 <korvo> sprout: Oh, BTW, please make sure that anything generated by ChatGPT is copyright-free before adding it to the wiki. In general, I'd recommend *writing your own words* rather than relying on a generative tool to write for you.
21:18:51 <korvo> The policy's documented at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Copyrights
21:36:16 <sprout> all my stuff on the wiki predates popular llms
22:06:58 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:07:46 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
22:11:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:19:50 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:42:54 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
22:43:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:44:20 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
00:18:11 -!- ajal has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
02:01:12 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157648&oldid=157637 * H33T33 * (+448)
02:12:20 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157649&oldid=157648 * H33T33 * (+27)
04:04:50 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157650&oldid=157421 * Zhil * (+26)
04:19:01 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
04:21:49 -!- Hooloovoo has joined.
06:56:42 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:50:17 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157651&oldid=156870 * JIT * (+70)
08:05:04 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157652&oldid=157560 * JIT * (+58)
08:09:01 <esolangs> [[Print "deadfish"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157653&oldid=63956 * JIT * (+4)
09:54:39 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157654&oldid=148509 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+0)
10:49:11 <gry> sprout: hi
11:09:31 <esolangs> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157655&oldid=157645 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+53) /* List of OISCs */
11:20:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
11:32:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157656&oldid=147340 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+133) /* Hi */ new section
11:45:29 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157657&oldid=157624 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+494)
11:48:07 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157658&oldid=157657 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1)
11:49:50 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157659&oldid=157658 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+16) /* Execution */
11:53:19 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157660&oldid=157643 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Users */
11:54:13 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157661&oldid=157660 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3) /* Users */
12:25:41 <esolangs> [[Irma]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157662 * Neon * (+15698) Created page with "'''''"Nothing ain't there. -Nicholas L."''''' ==Introduction== [[File:Irma Logo.png|frame|right|Original logo of Irma, circa 2025. Made by Irma's creator, Nicholas.]] {{infobox proglang |name=Irma Arnold |paradigms=Functional |author=[[User:Neon]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025
12:26:34 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157663&oldid=157662 * Neon * (+30)
12:27:16 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157664&oldid=157663 * Neon * (+1)
12:27:52 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157665&oldid=157664 * Neon * (+0)
12:35:15 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157666&oldid=157665 * Neon * (+174)
12:35:48 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157667&oldid=157666 * Neon * (+0)
12:36:14 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157668&oldid=157667 * Neon * (+1)
12:38:11 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157669&oldid=157668 * Neon * (+121)
13:01:54 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157670&oldid=157594 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+37)
13:34:32 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157671&oldid=157647 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+706)
14:00:02 -!- wib_jonas has joined.
14:08:54 <HackEso> [U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR]
14:12:36 <int-e> somebody used that instead of ° elsewhere and I wondered what that symbol is
14:13:09 <sprout> I think it's a remnant from latin numerals
14:13:36 <sprout> Xº to denote it's a number
14:13:56 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes, I've seen people make that mistake.
14:15:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157672&oldid=157656 * Hotcrystal0 * (+279)
14:15:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157673&oldid=157672 * Hotcrystal0 * (-149)
14:16:52 <wib_jonas> probably because in some fonts they look similar
14:21:28 <wib_jonas> it's easy to remember: in iso-8859-1 the middle dot "·" that stands for multiplication has code 0xB7 which is 0x20 less than the code of the multiplication sign "×" which is 0xD7, the degrees sign "°" has code 0xB0 because it looks kind of like a superscript zero, superscript 2 "²" has code 0xB2, superscript 3 "³" has code 0xB3, and
14:21:28 <wib_jonas> superscript 1 "¹" who cares nobody uses that characters anyway.
14:25:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157674&oldid=157517 * Hotcrystal0 * (+320)
14:29:30 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157675&oldid=155316 * Hotcrystal0 * (-27)
14:43:42 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed).
15:04:55 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157676&oldid=154959 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+10)
15:42:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Irma]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157677 * Neon * (+688) Created page with "There's something different about programming as the soft tapping of water crinkles outside. The room is illuminated, but dead in a dim grey. The chatter of the keyboard syncs with the orchestra of rain flowing down the gutter, spewing out onto the ground. The wind blows
16:09:55 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157678&oldid=156485 * Neon * (-233)
16:23:55 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157679&oldid=157669 * Neon * (+717)
16:26:21 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157680&oldid=157678 * Neon * (+29)
16:29:05 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157681&oldid=157679 * Neon * (+44)
16:33:03 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157682&oldid=157681 * Neon * (+156)
16:40:30 -!- Neon has joined.
16:40:53 -!- Neon has changed nick to Guest7594.
16:42:23 -!- Guest7594 has quit (Client Quit).
17:10:59 <esolangs> [[9D brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157683 * JORE * (+869) Created page with "== 9D Brainfuck == '''9D Brainfuck''' is a esolang of fun modification of brainfuck. It have fake commands added. === Commands: === {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Command !! Action/Brainfuck |- | + || + |- | - || - |- | > || > |- | < || < |- | [ || [ |- | ] || ] |- |
17:18:18 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157684&oldid=157561 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+118)
17:20:10 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157685&oldid=157684 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+62) /* Rapid growth */
17:20:53 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157686&oldid=157685 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+2) /* Rapid growth */
17:34:39 <esolangs> [[Impossible to quine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157687 * JORE * (+349) Created page with "== Impossible to quine == '''Impossible to quine''' is a esolang which you cannot quine in it. Normally the output is '''I won't allow you to quine'''. If your code be '''I won't allow you to quine''', it will output '''Sorry, you cannot quine.''' === Quine (i
17:53:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400/How to write quines]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157688 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+182) Created page with "Thank you, [[User:Hakerh400]]! I made [[Parenthesys#Quine|my first quine]] using your manual! ~~~~"
18:07:17 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157689&oldid=157328 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+19)
19:25:39 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157690&oldid=157670 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+229)
19:53:55 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157691&oldid=157690 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+14)
20:00:50 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157692&oldid=157691 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+146) /* 1 */
20:32:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Henry * New user account
20:33:50 -!- amby has joined.
20:53:55 -!- impomatic has joined.
20:59:43 -!- op_4 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
21:13:32 -!- op_4 has joined.
21:22:43 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:25:43 <ais523> hmm, the wiki is being very unresponsive: is it under pressure from scraperbots again?
21:26:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:27:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157693&oldid=157617 * Ais523 * (+712) /* Movie */ what happened and why I haven't cleaned it up yet
21:29:46 -!- FreeFull has joined.
21:33:57 <ais523> int-e: sprout: I think ª and º are like a superscript "th" for making numbers into ordinals (i.e. they make 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th), but gendered (for languages in which adjectives have gendered) – probably specifically for Spanish
21:34:09 <ais523> * in which adjectives have genders
21:34:57 <ais523> you can see an example at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/primero#Spanish
21:35:20 <ais523> * which says that "1.º" and "1.ª" are alternative forms of "primero" and "primera"
21:35:28 <ais523> (both meaning "first")
21:39:34 <ais523> on my keyboard, ª is altgr-shift-f and º is altgr-shift-m, presumably for "female/feminine" and "male/masculine"
21:59:28 -!- impomatic has joined.
22:11:28 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:42:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:42:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
22:44:14 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
23:08:13 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
23:09:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:09:35 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
23:14:45 -!- SGautam has joined.
23:19:13 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:19:47 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
23:52:03 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
00:00:27 -!- Lykaina has joined.
00:03:24 <int-e> Looks that way; ais523 also mentioned it a few hours ago.
00:04:32 <ais523> not quite down but under so much load you can hardly get through
00:04:43 <int-e> Ah. I haven't gotten through yet.
00:04:49 <ais523> I guess someone ought to ping fizzie, but I strongly suspect this is scraperbots that need blocking rather than an actual site problem
00:05:01 <ais523> (and fizzie may well be asleep)
00:05:11 <int-e> I'd assume he's asleep, yeah
00:09:26 -!- molson has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:09:49 <fizzie> It's getting ~95% 4xx errors, but I guess they're slow and/or expensive 4xx's this time.
00:09:50 -!- molson has joined.
00:10:31 <ais523> maybe there's a common URL pattern that could be blocked (especially if the pages are guaranteed to not exist so there's no purpose for a human visiting them)
00:17:38 <fizzie> It's not really super-obvious this time, from the logs. Here's a 30-second sample of URLs only: https://zem.fi/tmp/urls.txt
00:18:24 <fizzie> "Special:RecentChangesLinked" probably being the expensive operation.
00:19:33 <ais523> oh yes – I'm not even sure if that one is indexed
00:20:44 <ais523> fizzie: parameter order works for this one, the wiki's provided links to RecentChangesLinked put the title at the start, not the end
00:21:57 <ais523> in fact, this bot appears to be alphabetising URL parameter order even in cases where that changes the meaning of the URL
00:22:26 <ais523> such as with returnto= (where an & after the = does not introduce a new parameter but rather is part of the URL being returned to)
00:23:28 <ais523> I guess it's probably a misguided attempt to avoid crawling the same page twice (without realising that many of the parameters may not significantly change the page being crawled)
00:23:33 <int-e> really? wouldn't it be quoted as %26?
00:24:49 <fizzie> Hmm. Well, those requests ended on their own ~15 minutes ago, and the load also does seem to have dropped from flat 100% down to ~60% (and the wiki answers to me now), so maybe it's not entirely down any more.
00:25:03 <ais523> int-e: actually there seems to be a different form of quoting: https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=The+Waterfall+Model&returntoquery=action%3Dedit
00:26:39 <ais523> hmm, these aren't all alphabetised, just most of them – maybe two different bots, or one bot + legitimate humans
00:27:04 <int-e> that's the login link from https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=The_Waterfall_Model&action=edit
00:27:15 <int-e> (when not logged in)
00:27:28 <b_jonas> Related changes is a link on the sidebar for (almost) every page, and I know I've clicked on it by accident a few times when I meant Recent changes.
00:27:53 <ais523> related changes is theoretically useful in niche circumstances but I don't use it very often
00:28:19 <b_jonas> I personally don't think I ever used Related changes legitimately, but it may be useful for others
00:28:20 <ais523> I think I've intentionally used it (to solve a problem rather than to test how it works) something like once or twice in my life, and only at Wikipedia
00:28:50 <ais523> it's most useful on categories, e.g. I think I've used it on Wikipedia's esolang category to see changes to esolang articles
00:28:58 <b_jonas> but then I use other weird tools that other people may think is useful only in niche cases
00:29:30 <ais523> it would probably be reasonable to restrict this sort of expensive query to logged-in users, but I'm not sure how difficult that is to configure
00:31:06 <int-e> I can't remember ever using that feature.
00:31:07 <ais523> in any case, a simple regex block on title=Special:RecentChangesLinked and title=Special%3ARecentChangesLinked (the dump contains both, oddly) might be enough
00:31:13 <ais523> err, not at the start of the URL
00:31:24 <ais523> (the start of the relevant portion of the URL0
00:31:50 <int-e> (but I can see that it's right there under "Tools" so a crawler would obviously pick that up)
00:31:51 <fizzie> I've added some ad-hoc filters, do let me know if you run into unexpected 503s as part of real use.
00:32:21 <fizzie> Someone also pointed me at a MediaWiki extension that can allegedly restrict specific special pages to logged-in users.
00:32:28 <ais523> OK, thanks for the attention
00:32:40 <ais523> int-e: right, there are a whole lot of hits on the "create account" page with different return-to URLs, too
00:33:50 <fizzie> (Specifically, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown -- which has a setting that "allows you to specify for each special page which user groups have access to it". I'll consider adding that extension when I next update MediaWiki, which should probably be soonishly anyway.)
00:33:52 <ais523> hmm, I think this bot may be randomising whether or not to escape query parameters
00:37:23 <fizzie> From what I've heard, this sort of thing (nonsensical, resource-intensive antisocial crawling) has been happening to all kinds of "small" websites, like the Debian bug tracker's query functionality has apparently been non-functional due to it.
00:38:44 <ais523> yes – I'm a member of a webforum who was hit by it
00:39:35 <ais523> I think it's not just small websites too, but larger ones as well (although they're more easily able to absorb the load)
00:43:07 <int-e> apparently it also bothers "small" websites like github: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/159123
00:44:39 <fizzie> There's also rather more traffic than I'd expect from real users to various "Special:WhatLinksHere" pages, but those have less obvious patterns because sometimes it's a /w/index.php URL, while other times it's a "/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/<page>" one, and the latter one's probably the same a real user would use.
00:46:40 <ais523> I think WhatLinksHere is just an index lookup, at least (whereas RecentChangesLinked probably needs a join)
00:48:19 <ais523> I use WhatLinksHere much more often than RecentChangesLinked, at least – although it's still fairly rare (most commonly I use it to check inbound links when deleting a page, although I am often willing to just let them turn red)
00:52:17 <zzo38> What I tried to do on my own computer is to set up port knocking for the HTTP server (and only for the HTTP server), due to this excessive badly behaved scraping.
00:53:29 <zzo38> However, the extension you mention for MediaWiki might be suitable if you only need to block access to some special pages rather than everything, I suppose.
00:54:44 <fizzie> Well, it looks like the performance is okay-ish now, so maybe that'll help kick the can down the road some. It's still a persistent 50% CPU load and ~6 qps, so I'm sure it's still 99+% bots, which is a shame, but at least it's maybe not preventing real visitors.
00:59:56 <b_jonas> I use What links here occasionally regularly.
01:00:09 <b_jonas> s/regularly/for a legitimate purpose/
01:05:14 <zzo38> I also sometimes use "What links here"
01:18:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
01:36:26 <ais523> I think port knocking doesn't work well for a public website because even if you tell people the knock sequence, most people wouldn't be able to enter it correctly
01:43:48 <ais523> Lykaina: so when you make a network connection to a computer (typically a server), the connection request contains a number (the "port number") that specifies what program you want to connect to; in theory it could be anything, but various protocols have standard numbers so that you don't need to specify the number (e.g. mailservers use port 25 to communicate with each other and web browsers use 80 for http or 443 for https)
01:44:08 <ais523> port knocking is when you make a series of connections to the same computer and use the port numbers like you're entering a password
01:44:20 <ais523> so it's just an arbitrary sequence of numbers that you have to find out
01:44:47 <ais523> and a server that requires port knocking will reject all the connections until you connect with the right sequence of port numbers, and only then will it accept the connection
01:45:47 <ais523> it's basically a way to do the equivalent of a login sequence, but at a lower level than typical password entry forms, i.e. it's done while forming the connection, before the program that will eventually accept the connection even sees it
01:46:30 <fizzie> Classically, you make the sequence not monotonically increasing (and/or add ports that will immediately fail it) to prevent a linear port scans (are those even a thing anymore?) from accidentally passing the knock sequence.
01:47:27 <ais523> port scans are definitely still a thing, although I think that nowadays the primariy legitimate use is in attempts to detect systems that have been infected by malware and have more ports open than they should as a consequence
01:47:40 <ais523> I'm not sure whether they're typically linear – there's no particular reason to port scan in any particular order
01:48:05 <ais523> but I kind-of assumed that you'd implement it so that any port that wasn't the next one in the sequence would cause you to have to start again from the start
01:53:04 <ais523> Wikipedia points out that port knocking is usually vulnerable to replay attacks, so it's harder to secure than password authentication would be
01:55:02 <fizzie> The port-knocking scheme I use for SSH involves having to attempt a TCP connection with a specific MSS value, which seems to work okay in practice, and has the benefit that the "knock" can happen on the same port as the service, meaning it's usually affected by the same firewall rules as the actual connection would be.
01:55:36 <ais523> fizzie: ah, one-port knocking to get through firewalls, that makes sense as security through obscurity
01:56:00 <ais523> I was thinking that maybe the best alternative would be to have some sort of authentication service running on a known port which you could send passwords to securely, and then it would open some other port for you
01:58:44 <Lykaina> what if the port knock sequence is one of those codes that change every 30 sec
01:59:26 <Lykaina> using 10 ports, for digits 0-9
02:00:03 <ais523> yep, you can do that sort of thing if you want to
02:00:11 <fizzie> The MSS thing can be implemented in nftables rules, so it doesn't require a separate (arguably potentially vulnerable, though it could be very minimal) piece of software.
02:00:15 <ais523> (would still be vulnerable to replay attacks unless you only accepted each code once)
02:04:56 <fizzie> (A fixed sequence of regular knocks, or even detecting a password in the knock packet, can also be done in firewall rules. Decoding any kind of OTP... well, I hear BPF is quite powerful.)
02:14:44 <ais523> a non-Turing-complete programming language originally designed to implement firewalls
02:15:02 <ais523> although it later got massively extended and sort-of became a different language, eBPF
02:15:54 <ais523> it might qualify as an esolang, but is perhaps too practically useful for that
02:19:25 <ais523> but BPF and eBPF became the languages for when a kernel interface wants to accept a function/procedure as an argument, and run it in kernel mode rather than calling back into a usermode process – you translate the function into BPF/eBPF and the kernel runs it for you
02:48:29 -!- Lykaina has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:17:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
03:54:11 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
04:39:03 <zzo38> I just had one port number to allow access for a limited time, and one lower port number and one higher port number both of which will lock out the access until the correct port number is knocked again. The intention was not security or secrecy, but to prevent excessive load by excessive access by badly behaved automated programs. I did not want to stop anyone from using curl, Lynx, etc.
05:09:21 <esolangs> [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157694&oldid=155022 * Dadsdy * (+66) /* External resources */
05:50:27 -!- impomatic has joined.
05:56:10 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157695&oldid=148510 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+44)
06:19:46 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157696 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+1753) Created page with "'''Logica''' is an esolang for a 2-bit CPU created by Cole. There is no input/output. The CPU has four 2-bit registers. A typical instruction (all the variables are bits): <code>aa bb cc dddd ee</code> ==The breakdown of the instr
06:32:54 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157697&oldid=157696 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+19)
06:33:06 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157698&oldid=157697 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-27)
06:48:11 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157699&oldid=157698 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+79)
06:49:07 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
06:52:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:57:07 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157700&oldid=157699 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+1934)
06:58:27 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157701&oldid=157700 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-33)
06:58:51 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157702&oldid=157701 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+2)
09:45:38 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157703&oldid=157661 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* Users */
09:54:38 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157704 * JIT * (+17) Redirected page to [[]]
10:05:31 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157705&oldid=157692 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-277)
10:35:44 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157706 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+967) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Hakerh''' is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]] that imitates [[User:Hakerh400]]'s esolangs. I made a timestamp below to mark where my transformation into Hakerh400 begun: ~~~ == Syntax == The program consists of function definitions: f(X) = Y Where uppe
10:36:39 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157707&oldid=157706 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-40)
11:30:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157708&oldid=157451 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-106) /* Input/output capabilities */
11:32:20 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157709&oldid=157707 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1433)
11:34:04 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157710&oldid=157703 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+20)
11:38:53 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157711&oldid=157709 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0)
11:39:21 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157712&oldid=157711 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157711|157711]] by [[Special:Contributions/TenBillionPlusOne|TenBillionPlusOne]] ([[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne|talk]])
11:44:39 <esolangs> [[OLNMLNE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157713&oldid=101202 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+8)
11:46:51 <fizzie> Heh, want to the GCC bug tracker (there's a documentation mistake that I've been aware for at least a decade that I never get around reporting, and probably won't this time either), and it flashed that Anubis thing briefly, so I guess they've also had problems with scrapers.
11:46:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157714&oldid=157559 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* I */
11:47:25 <fizzie> https://github.com/TecharoHQ/anubis <- this thing.
11:48:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157715&oldid=157714 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15) /* C */
11:48:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157716&oldid=157715 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+17) /* U */
11:49:34 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157717&oldid=157716 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+48) /* H */
11:50:50 <fizzie> (I'm sure it is very effective, but it also requires clients to execute JS, which pretty much disqualifies it instantly.)
11:59:06 <fizzie> I don't even know if they expect docs bugs through the bug tracker. The "gcc" product has a "web" component, described as "There is an error or omission on the Web pages", but most issues in it aren't about the manual. And there isn't a "doc" or "manual" component or anything similar.
12:03:17 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157718&oldid=157712 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Examples */
12:03:54 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157719&oldid=157718 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-204) /* Examples temp */
12:08:11 -!- wib_jonas has joined.
12:09:11 <wib_jonas> fizzie: which book from among the manuals, as in the titles listed at https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/ ? the main GCC Manual or some other one?
12:13:01 <wib_jonas> also do you have a patch or just a bug report?
12:13:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157720&oldid=157673 * Hotcrystal0 * (+306)
12:13:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157721&oldid=157720 * Hotcrystal0 * (-164)
12:14:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157722&oldid=157721 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
12:14:22 <esolangs> [[Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157723 * PrySigneToFry * (+5355) Created page with "Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage(Micron Turing-Complete Assembly Language, MTCASM for short) is designed by PSTF, based on Assembly Language of Windows, and [[X-ASM]] by the same author. = Prologue = MTCASM is a Turing-Complete, Stron
12:15:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157724&oldid=157717 * PrySigneToFry * (+47)
12:16:50 <wib_jonas> I don't find any instructions on how to report documentation bugs without a patch.
12:17:33 <wib_jonas> I've reported a compiler bug for gcc but that was many years ago, never reported a doc bug for gcc.
12:18:48 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157725&oldid=157582 * PrySigneToFry * (+29)
12:22:27 -!- amby has joined.
12:26:11 <fizzie> The main one, and I don't have a patch because I don't really want to make a judgement call on what to write instead.
12:26:18 <fizzie> The problem is in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Zero-Length.html and it's... well, this: https://zem.fi/tmp/fam.txt
12:27:54 <wib_jonas> oh heck, zero length array. I think the gcc devs wish they could go back in time and change that feature to never have existed in gcc, but they also can't remove it now because the linux kernel or some other programs depend on it too much.
12:28:15 <fizzie> Well, it's not really about zero-length arrays as such, it's about the standard mechanism (flexible array members).
12:40:56 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157726&oldid=157719 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+503) /* Examples */
12:41:58 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157727&oldid=157726 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* SKI Calculus */
12:50:46 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157728&oldid=157727 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-6) /* Basic relations */
12:58:04 <wib_jonas> fizzie: hmm, that does look like the doc is misleading
12:59:14 -!- Sgeo has joined.
12:59:24 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157729&oldid=157728 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+393)
12:59:33 <int-e> . o O ( the bigger scandal is that this is an extension )
13:02:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157730&oldid=157722 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+123)
13:03:54 <int-e> Can you even work around this reliably? I mean, sure, you can define a copy of the struct with a concrete length for the array and initialize that, then cast things around. But couldn't the alignment of that final field depend on its size?
13:04:50 <int-e> I seem to recall that offsets are only guaranteed to be equal if the field types up to that point (including the field itself) are equal.
13:06:39 <esolangs> [[UNBABTIZED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157731&oldid=38968 * Tpaefawzen * (+1217)
13:08:26 <wib_jonas> int-e: no. (1) we have C99 flexible arrays instead of the extension. (2) it's too late to add true zero-size objects to either C or C++, they'd break too much existing code, and zero-length arrays would break even more. (3) there's now a C++ attribute to help with the most common use case for when you would want zero-sized objects, which is when
13:08:27 <wib_jonas> one of the members of a struct is empty (as in padding only but not technically zero-sizeof) then it can overlap with other members of the same struct if you add the right C++ attribute from a recent C++ standard. (the previous workaround was to use a base instead of a member). (4) the other common use case is passing an empty (not zero sized)
13:08:27 <wib_jonas> struct to a function as argument. under the x86 ABI, if the struct is trivial then such a struct is already eliminated and doesn't consume any registers, so there's no run-time overhead.
13:08:42 <wib_jonas> sorry, I mean the xi6_64 gcc ABI, not the x86_32 ABI
13:11:30 -!- tromp has joined.
13:19:52 <wib_jonas> fizzie: have you tried to ask in #gcc on libera?
13:20:10 <wib_jonas> they might know how to submit doc bug reports
13:21:48 <esolangs> [[UNBABTIZED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157732&oldid=157731 * Tpaefawzen * (+336)
13:22:29 <esolangs> [[UNBABTIZED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157733&oldid=157732 * Tpaefawzen * (+25) /* External resources */
13:42:38 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Excess Flood).
13:43:01 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
14:07:20 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed).
14:09:19 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157734&oldid=157649 * H33T33 * (+2)
14:12:52 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157735&oldid=157680 * Neon * (-258) /* Neon */
14:15:50 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157736&oldid=157735 * Neon * (+0) /* Neon */
14:18:54 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157737&oldid=157734 * H33T33 * (+43)
14:20:24 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157738&oldid=156989 * H33T33 * (+37)
14:31:58 -!- impomatic has joined.
15:10:27 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:11:56 -!- gry has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
15:12:34 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
15:14:29 -!- lynndotpy6 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:14:49 -!- lynndotpy6 has joined.
15:14:59 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
15:15:18 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:15:21 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
15:18:45 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
15:19:32 -!- Bowserinator has joined.
15:33:11 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:33:20 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157739&oldid=157729 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+16)
15:36:27 -!- APic has joined.
15:37:47 -!- gry has joined.
15:41:32 -!- perlbot has joined.
15:44:59 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157740&oldid=157306 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+38)
15:46:54 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157741&oldid=157689 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+19)
15:48:23 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157742&oldid=157686 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+45)
15:49:06 -!- tromp has joined.
15:49:25 -!- impomatic has joined.
16:12:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
16:16:18 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157743&oldid=157399 * H33T33 * (-7598)
16:18:08 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157744 * H33T33 * (+7803) Created page with "[[Topple| Back to Topple]] ''Disclaimer: The current source file is bugged. The fixed file will be added ASAP'' ==Source Code== [[Topple/Source_Code|C Source Code]] <pre>#include <stdio.h> #include <string.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <time.h> #include <sy
16:19:56 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157745 * Aadenboy * (+3755) Created page with "<div style="display: flex; flex-direction: row; align-items: center;"><div style="width: 50vw; height: 2em; background-color: #f00; margin: 0.25em; border: 2px solid #000; display: inline-block;"> <div style="width: {{#expr:{{formatnum:{{NUMBEROFEDITS}
16:20:51 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157746&oldid=157745 * Aadenboy * (+85)
16:21:18 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157747&oldid=157744 * H33T33 * (-37)
16:21:30 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157748&oldid=157495 * Aadenboy * (+31) /* anything else */ [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]]
16:21:48 * ski . o O ( SKI combinators are not a calculus, <http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/533#comment-7712> )
16:24:25 <korvo> So the poset looks like "logic" ≥ "algebra" ≥ "calculus"?
16:24:51 <korvo> I appreciate this subtlety.
16:36:09 <esolangs> [[Irma]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157749&oldid=157682 * Neon * (+402)
16:41:17 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157750&oldid=157705 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-224)
16:48:44 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Excess Flood).
16:49:07 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
16:59:08 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157751&oldid=157750 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+468)
17:04:52 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
17:15:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157752&oldid=157599 * Henry * (+256) /* Introductions */
17:16:05 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157753 * Henry * (+5560) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Prime Number Programming Language |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Henry]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |typesys= |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refim
17:20:24 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157754&oldid=157753 * Henry * (+0)
17:20:25 -!- tromp has joined.
17:28:56 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157755&oldid=157751 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-439)
17:32:42 -!- impomatic has joined.
17:36:47 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157756&oldid=157755 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+225)
17:40:22 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157757&oldid=157710 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+48) /* My esolangs */
17:51:03 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in).
17:55:22 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
17:58:23 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Client Quit).
17:59:55 <zzo38> I think zero-length arrays and zero-length structures are useful and are better than the flexible arrays of C99 and other work-arounds that shouldn't be needed.
18:01:10 <zzo38> They shouldn't guess why you want zero-length arrays and structures; it can just be allowed and then you can use it for whatever purpose is appropriate. It does have more uses than have been mentioned.
18:02:11 <zzo38> For example, sometimes you will be using a macro to retrieve a type or number from a structure but where that type or number is not actual data in the structure. Another use is if a name is required to be defined but does not need to do anything else, in which case it is suitable to take up zero space. There are others as well.
18:13:29 <zzo38> (I think there are problems with C; I would just allow zero-length stuff, and make other changes as well, including removing some of the C99 and later stuff while keeping some of it)
18:17:25 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
18:24:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157758&oldid=157730 * Hotcrystal0 * (+393)
18:25:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157759&oldid=157758 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
18:25:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157760&oldid=157759 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
18:31:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed).
18:45:01 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157761&oldid=157756 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+435)
18:47:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, zero-length arrays and zero-length structs are very useful, which is why rust supports them completely. they're just not worth to retrofit to an existing language like C or C++ without potentially silently breaking a lot of things that assume that zero-length data can't exist.
18:48:53 <b_jonas> also the C++ attribute that I mentioned earlier is [[no_unique_address]], introduced by C++20
19:03:05 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157762&oldid=157736 * Neon * (-858)
19:06:15 <zzo38> Rust has its own problems, including Unicode string types, and I think also excessive dependencies for programs, and I don't know if Rust has a "goto" command.
19:07:24 <zzo38> However, although it might not be worth to retrofit to C99 and newer, it can be done as an extension of C89 to add and change some things (including some things of newer versions of C); a compiler operating in C99 and newer mode could disable the features that don't work if that becomes necessary
19:10:40 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:12:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: the unicode string tyeps are only a mild problem that can be solved by some later library additions. the main thing that's currently missing from the stable part of standard library is a byte string infix in byte string search (like memmem in C), but the devs are already working on adding such functions. some of the IO and operating system abstractions also use the unicode string types, but those
19:13:00 <b_jonas> are not so hard to replace with a different library.
19:14:55 <b_jonas> I would generally recommend to just ignore the library unicode string types in rust, unless you want to modify the rustc compiler or write procedural macros. what's in and not in the standard library is very much influenced by what library functions rustc itself depends on.
19:22:35 -!- tromp has joined.
19:57:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157763 * Hotcrystal0 * (+262) Created page with "Is this a WIP? ~~~~"
19:58:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157764&oldid=157763 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
20:05:53 <zzo38> Having the Unicode string types means that library API calls would use it. (GOTO doesn't have this problem because even if a library uses GOTO that does not affect the API calls.)
20:08:57 <zzo38> (I think there are other problems with Rust and some of the more modern programming languages as well; C does have some problems but the newer ones (and sometimes newer versions of C) tend to make some things worse instead.)
20:11:22 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157765&oldid=157762 * Neon * (+16)
20:14:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: also ziglang supports zero-length structures. I'm not too familiar with zig so I'm not entirely sure if it supports zero-length arrays too, but I think it does.
20:14:50 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
20:16:36 -!- tromp has joined.
20:24:23 -!- visilii_ has joined.
20:25:41 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in).
20:26:07 -!- visilii has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:26:38 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
20:30:52 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:46:02 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
21:06:50 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157766&oldid=157724 * Buckets * (+11)
21:07:21 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157767&oldid=157435 * Buckets * (+10) /* 2020 */
21:07:44 <esolangs> [[Moxy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157768 * Buckets * (+3080) Created page with "{{lowercase}} moxy(, which Stands for Malice-cive Over-infuriating, also filling you with Xurddjtsudutdiuf and Yjdtjxjfyxufifidfufduuf potential) is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020, it was [[User:Buckets]]' First attempt to Make a "Hard
21:08:22 <esolangs> [[Moxy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157769&oldid=157768 * Buckets * (+2)
21:08:54 <esolangs> [[Moxy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157770&oldid=157769 * Buckets * (+1)
21:09:12 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
21:10:51 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157771&oldid=157767 * Buckets * (+0)
21:13:28 -!- tromp has joined.
21:18:20 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157772&oldid=157746 * Aadenboy * (+658)
21:34:22 -!- visilii_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
21:35:06 -!- visilii has joined.
21:42:52 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157773&oldid=157754 * Henry * (+6360)
21:46:53 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
21:53:06 -!- tromp has joined.
22:03:41 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:55:41 <esolangs> [[User:Henry]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157774 * Henry * (+470) Created page with "Hi, my name is Henry, and I've reached this wiki since I like to both create and implement esoteric languages (above all, because most of the time their interpreters can be reduced to only a couple lines of Python). You can learn more about me in my [https://github.com
23:20:25 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:20:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
23:21:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
23:43:52 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
00:06:45 -!- visilii has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:11:09 -!- visilii has joined.
00:32:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157775&oldid=157764 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+165)
00:32:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157776&oldid=157775 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+9)
00:36:12 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157777&oldid=157702 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+106)
00:37:41 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157778&oldid=157777 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+507)
00:38:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * moved [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] to [[Logica]]
00:38:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * moved [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] to [[Talk:Logica]]
00:38:50 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157783&oldid=157695 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+4)
00:39:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157784&oldid=157781 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+122)
00:42:17 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157785&oldid=157766 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+13) /* L */
01:02:04 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157786&oldid=157324 * I am islptng * (+687)
01:02:25 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157787&oldid=157786 * I am islptng * (+17) /* Symbols */
01:14:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
01:15:18 -!- FreeFull has joined.
01:46:19 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157788&oldid=157584 * Corbin * (+331) The concept goes back to the beginning of Lisp, but was not well-defined enough for efficient self-hosting prior to Black.
01:53:36 <esolangs> [[Black (Asai)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157789 * Corbin * (+650) Stub for what I think is the first proven-efficient infinite tower of metainterpreters in the literature.
02:17:14 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157790&oldid=157737 * H33T33 * (+536)
02:24:28 <esolangs> [[Black (Asai)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157791&oldid=157789 * Corbin * (+73) Categories.
03:43:15 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157792 * Corbin * (+792) I have like twenty tabs open right now and I'm still probably gonna get something wrong. Here's an outline.
03:57:59 <esolangs> [[G]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157793 * Helpeesl * (+7501) Created page with "==Intro== G is a 2D esolang created by [[User:Helpeesl]] on May 15th 2025 and only uses commands which have been represented by G, g, , , , , or other forms of g in other programming languages. ==Commands== > Moves the pointer to the right one from [[Look!]], [[ABCDE]], [[
03:58:49 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157794&oldid=157793 * Helpeesl * (+1)
03:59:28 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157795&oldid=157794 * Helpeesl * (+40)
04:01:00 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157796&oldid=157795 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:02:56 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157797&oldid=157796 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:04:26 <esolangs> [[FHC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157798&oldid=157454 * Helpeesl * (-29)
04:04:47 <esolangs> [[HQ9-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157799&oldid=157450 * Helpeesl * (-29)
04:05:31 <esolangs> [[2Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157800&oldid=157469 * Helpeesl * (-27)
04:05:49 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157801&oldid=157792 * Corbin * (+1148) /* Free monoids */ Stub.
04:05:50 <esolangs> [[Dreadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157802&oldid=157467 * Helpeesl * (-26)
04:06:13 <esolangs> [[Feed the Chaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157803&oldid=157471 * Helpeesl * (-27)
04:07:27 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157804&oldid=157671 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:07:44 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157805&oldid=157739 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:44:39 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157806&oldid=157787 * I am islptng * (+32)
04:45:28 -!- ais523 has joined.
04:45:52 <ais523> zzo38: Rust currently doesn't have a goto statement, although there are plans to add gotos from one arm of a "match" (the equivalent of a "switch") to another
04:47:46 <ais523> and yes, Rust's "String" type and "str" are Unicode, but you don't have to use them for strings, there are a range of other string-like types available like OsString (OS default, e.g. UTF-16 on Windows) and Vec<u8> (bytestring)
05:01:43 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157807&oldid=157806 * I am islptng * (-59)
05:04:35 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157808&oldid=157779 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+107)
05:09:01 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157809&oldid=157808 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+121)
05:16:40 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157810&oldid=157807 * I am islptng * (+875)
05:17:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157811 * I am islptng * (+681) Created page with "@[[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]]: This was what I mean yesterday! --~~~~"
05:20:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157812&oldid=157811 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+216)
05:47:03 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:59:24 -!- lambdabot has joined.
06:00:38 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:06:29 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157813&oldid=157783 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-4)
06:12:01 -!- lambdabot has joined.
06:28:18 <b_jonas> ais523: IIUC OsString on windows is actually also UTF-8 strings, they're just converted to UTF-16 on the fly when passed to a win32 system call eg. representing a filename.
06:29:05 <b_jonas> see https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/std/ffi/struct.OsString.html the paragraph starting with /Note,/
06:30:27 <ais523> b_jonas: I'm pretty sure Rust OsString on Windows can represent a string that contains surrogates
06:30:32 <ais523> unpaired surrogates, that is
06:33:23 <ais523> I guess it could just UTF-8-encode the surrogates
06:34:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
06:38:35 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157814&oldid=157757 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3) /* Coming soon */
06:39:29 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157815&oldid=157761 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3)
06:40:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:44:44 -!- tromp has joined.
07:02:00 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157816&oldid=156258 * Timwi * (+5190) Regex functions: add newest functions from AoC 2024 5a (https://youtu.be/THhI_x7F8WY); add result value column and some nowraps
07:09:08 -!- ais523 has joined.
07:09:47 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157817&oldid=157815 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15)
08:02:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157818&oldid=157812 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-216)
10:21:53 <esolangs> [[User:Henry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157819&oldid=157774 * Henry * (+30)
11:32:54 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
11:42:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157820&oldid=157629 * PrySigneToFry * (+100)
11:50:52 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157821&oldid=157801 * Ais523 * (+693) /* Free monoids */ a) an introduction to what "free" means because this might be read by non-mathematicians (I think there may have been a definition already but it was so technical that I initially missed it), b) don't use S to represent a different set from the set it represents
12:10:11 -!- amby has joined.
12:40:50 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157822&oldid=157809 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-75)
12:48:51 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157823&oldid=157813 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+58)
12:48:52 -!- tromp has joined.
12:54:06 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157824&oldid=157823 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-9)
12:59:15 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157825&oldid=157817 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+36)
13:01:08 <esolangs> [[SLet (Old 2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157826&oldid=152595 * I am islptng * (+303)
13:02:00 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:03:13 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157827&oldid=157824 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+132)
13:03:19 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
13:04:22 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:04:46 -!- chiselfuse has joined.
13:05:21 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157828&oldid=157825 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) /* 3 */
13:10:47 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157829&oldid=157827 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-132)
13:13:29 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:14:26 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
13:16:32 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157830&oldid=157829 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+54)
13:23:07 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157831&oldid=157830 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-54)
13:33:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157832&oldid=157828 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+82) /* 3 */
13:39:11 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157833 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+194) Created page with "'''Transformation is complete''' is esolang by former [[User:TBPO]], now a clone of [[User:Hakerh400]]. I made a timestamp to mark when my transformation became complete: (( I'll insert later ))"
13:47:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheCatFromGithub * New user account
13:48:19 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
13:48:37 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157834&oldid=157814 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+104)
13:49:31 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157835 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+964) Created page with "'''Modulo 2 v2''' is a programming language created by [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]]. It is based off [[User:I am islptng]]'s modification of the original language but with features present in the original, like multiple "codeblock
13:50:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157836&oldid=157752 * TheCatFromGithub * (+152) /* Introductions */ added introduction
13:51:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157837&oldid=157836 * TheCatFromGithub * (+106) oops forgot to sign
13:56:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157838&oldid=157832 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-19)
14:00:38 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157839&oldid=157822 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+4)
14:02:08 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157840&oldid=157773 * Henry * (+1498)
14:06:34 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157841&oldid=157839 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+10)
14:11:49 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157842&oldid=157790 * H33T33 * (+238)
14:24:35 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157843&oldid=157842 * H33T33 * (-7)
14:28:08 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157844&oldid=157843 * H33T33 * (-9)
14:34:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157845&oldid=157760 * Hotcrystal0 * (+285)
14:35:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157846&oldid=157845 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
14:35:58 <esolangs> [[Infinite noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157847&oldid=145311 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2793) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/145311|145311]] by [[Special:Contributions/RainbowDash|RainbowDash]] ([[User talk:RainbowDash|talk]])
14:37:24 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157848&oldid=157675 * Hotcrystal0 * (-94)
14:37:52 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157849&oldid=157848 * Hotcrystal0 * (+27)
14:38:21 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157850&oldid=157849 * Hotcrystal0 * (+18)
14:38:34 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157851&oldid=157850 * Hotcrystal0 * (+9)
14:41:01 -!- Sgeo has joined.
14:44:25 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157852 * TheCatFromGithub * (+557) created page
14:44:45 <esolangs> [[User:TheCatFromGithub]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157853 * TheCatFromGithub * (+30) Created page with "Hello, I created [[ShiftEso]]."
14:45:06 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157854&oldid=157852 * TheCatFromGithub * (+3)
14:46:44 -!- tromp has joined.
14:47:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157855&oldid=157785 * TheCatFromGithub * (+15) /* S */ added shifteso
14:51:07 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
14:51:48 -!- amby has joined.
14:58:47 -!- wib_jonas has joined.
14:59:33 <wib_jonas> what the heck? "correspondance" is spelled with "ance" in english, but "ence" in french? I was told that the "ance" vs "ence" spelling always matches between english and french! it's all lies!
15:01:19 <wib_jonas> oh... yes, it's spelled with "ence" in english and "ance" in french
15:09:24 <korvo> Another example is "difference" vs "diffránce" (sp?); there was some sort of vowel shift after the loaning of these words.
15:10:41 <ais523> korvo: My dictionary says that it's "différence" in French, which has the same ending
15:10:43 <korvo> Oh, wow. "différance". I was not even close.
15:10:56 <ais523> (and I don't think that á is a letter in French)
15:11:36 <ais523> différance is a French word, but it's the equivalent of the obscure English word différance (which is presumably a loanword)
15:11:59 <korvo> ais523: Oh, apparently Derrida deliberately used the old spelling, and that's why it sticks out in my mind.
15:12:16 <korvo> So this is a non-example for modern Francophones.
15:12:30 <ais523> <Wikipedia> The ⟨a⟩ of différance is a deliberate misspelling of différence, though the two are pronounced identically
15:12:45 <korvo> Yep, an example of hauntology.
15:16:41 <wib_jonas> "ance" vs "ence" ending is always pronounced differently, that's why this is so confusing
15:17:25 <wib_jonas> "ance" vs "ence" ending is always pronounced the same, that's why this is so confusing
15:18:45 <wib_jonas> I mean there was the part where "correspondence" applies at the meta level too because these are about english and french words corresponding to each other, and now you brought up "difference".
15:18:58 <ais523> the vowel's more a schwa than anything, I think – which would imply that it would be pronounced differently if you stressed the syllable but not in its usual unstressed state
15:19:43 <ais523> are there any esolangs which are named using regular words except that the stress is in the wrong place?
15:21:09 <wib_jonas> hmm, maybe the spelling is an attempt to set up a who shaves the barber style paradox, like "what's the only word ending in 'ance' or 'ence' where the correspondence between english and french spelling is broken?" "correspondence." "yes, that's what I said."
15:22:01 <wib_jonas> "except the stress is in the wrong place" => probably, because there are both british and american esolangers, and they don't always agree on where the stress is
15:23:00 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
15:26:01 <wib_jonas> of course this started because I was writing "correspondence" and then decided to look up the spelling. not that my readers would care in this case.
15:27:53 <ais523> often the only way to memorise this sort of thing is to read enough English that it become subconscious
15:28:42 <int-e> b_jonas: "why" -- apparently it's taken from Latin without the detour via French: https://www.etymonline.com/word/correspondence
15:30:21 <wib_jonas> yes, I know "existence" is one that I often used to spell wrong
15:32:09 <wib_jonas> int-e: latin is what usually decides between "ance" and "ence" spelling yes, and that's why it matches in french and english, but that doesn't explain the difference for "correspondance" in french vs "correspondence" in english
15:33:12 <int-e> I guess I don't care about that part as much.
15:37:01 -!- tromp has joined.
15:49:24 -!- amby has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:49:31 -!- amby has joined.
15:53:31 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157856&oldid=157650 * Zhil * (+4) Reduced the size of the one-combinator bases
16:18:50 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed).
16:59:19 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157857&oldid=157856 * Zhil * (+1)
17:05:05 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
17:05:14 -!- chloetax has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:05:34 -!- chloetax has joined.
17:26:30 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Excess Flood).
17:29:00 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
17:32:06 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157858&oldid=157821 * Corbin * (+1854) I see that leaving this half-finished was a mistake. Next time I will not start editing before bed.
17:32:56 <korvo> ais523: I can't see a way to save your paragraph in [[monoid]]. The freedom of equality isn't the point, and that's actually why I included equality in the top-level definition.
17:33:28 <korvo> What's relevant here is that for any set L, L* is a monoid; that is, there's a functor * : Set -> Mon.
17:33:59 -!- tromp has joined.
17:34:07 <korvo> I need to bulldoze that section somewhat anyway, because I didn't realize that I need to define monoid presentations and rank *after* free monoids.
17:38:16 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157859&oldid=157858 * Corbin * (+240) Put the category-theory gibberish at the bottom, out of the way. Most folks will only care about sets.
17:38:27 <ais523> korvo: so the basic problem with the article is that someone who knows enough of the relevant mathematics to be able to understand it would already know what a monoid is, so it's unclear who the target audience is
17:38:48 <korvo> ais523: Oh! Okay, let's reset assumptions before I keep editing.
17:39:21 <ais523> that's probably fixable after the artice is finished, though
17:40:02 <korvo> My main thought was that I've gotten basically no guidance on [[concatenative language]]. My secondary thought was that monoids sure pop up a lot but we never bother to explain what they are.
17:41:39 <korvo> I'm seriously concerned that we're going to enter a third generation of programmers who refuse to learn what a monoid homomorphism is, and we're not even having a page that bikesheds the terminology.
17:42:15 <ais523> concatenative languages bother me a bit, because there are a) concatenative calculus languages like Joy and Mlatu which clearly fit, and b) a whole sphere of concatenative-ish languages like brainfuck which are a bit of a grey area
17:42:23 <ais523> and I'm not sure how to deal with b) in my head
17:42:32 <korvo> [[BF instruction minimalization]] is a messy read at best. Basically lab notes. Do we have a clear target audience for that?
17:43:09 <korvo> Ah, sure, the tribes of programming languages are a difficult Whorfian mind-lock to escape.
17:43:11 <ais523> it's for people who want to see a lot of partial attempts at minimalising BF
17:43:26 <ais523> which is a nontrivially-sized target audience
17:43:50 <korvo> Sure. As opposed to [[simple translation]], which is for the much smaller audience of folks who are minimising BF~
17:43:51 <ais523> there are so many programmers who see that < and - can be combined into a single instruction and the language still works, then try to go further
17:44:14 <ais523> the simple translation page came a lot later, and was an attempt to formalise some of the concepts rather than to show a lot of attempts
17:44:43 <ais523> (and was also intended to shed light onto the "minimalise BF into a turning tarpit" approach which may, oddly, still be possible via simple translation)
17:45:19 <ais523> but "trying to minimalise BF" is a) a popular subject, b) something that it's very easy to do incorrectly
17:45:39 <ais523> so having a lot of visible attempts is in some sense useful to avoid duplication of effort (and also to demonstrate why it's hard to do correctly)
17:46:42 <ais523> I'm trying to remember if anyone's tried obviously futile things like memory-mapping [ and ] yet – it wouldn't surprise me
17:46:54 <korvo> Also, I think that you and I look at deep structure differently. I'm completely unsurprised that monoids would show up randomly in the syntax of existing languages, because existing languages tend to have *much* richer structures, up to Kleene algebras!
17:47:40 <ais523> korvo: oh, I'm not surprised that the syntax forms a monoid – I'm surprised that the syntax forms a *function* in a way that makes composition meaningful
17:48:31 <korvo> ais523: Oh, it's because control flow tends to be monadic and monads are a special kind of monoid.
17:48:52 <korvo> If you have the ability to say "do this, then do that", that usually implies some sort of monoidal action combining this and that.
17:50:07 <ais523> right, but the monadic flatmap feels a bit different from the normal sense of function composition
17:50:33 <ais523> I think it can be viewed as a function composition, though
17:52:36 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157860&oldid=157854 * TheCatFromGithub * (+2)
17:52:53 <korvo> The way we usually do it (for some monad M) is to lift functions X → Y to actions X → M(Y). This is why folks say that monad-heavy languages act "in the monad" or "return into the monad".
17:53:01 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157861&oldid=157851 * Hotcrystal0 * (-10)
17:53:22 <korvo> Then the composition is "ordinary" function composition, using the pieces of the monad as needed.
17:53:48 <korvo> Anyway, yeah, monoids are just special cases of categories. It's all just goo at some point.
17:54:03 <ais523> well, no, because the syntactic composition composes X→M(Y) with Y→M(Z) to produce X→M(Z), and function composition doesn't do that
17:54:29 <ais523> it's a related operation but not identical
17:54:44 <korvo> Syntactic composition with the semicolon will do that. Most languages don't have the "programmable semicolon"; the monad is fixed.
17:55:10 <ais523> oh, OK, I think I understand what I'm stuck on now
17:55:48 <ais523> we are composing X→Y and Y→Z but the actual program is doing M(X→Y) and M(Y→Z) for some fixed monad M
17:56:39 <ais523> there are, e.g., two ways to view an Underload fragment: either it's a function from the portion of the stack it reads to the portion of the stack it writes, or it's a function from stacks to stacks
17:56:56 <korvo> Yes, exactly. Like for BF, the monad passes the state of the tape and pointer and manages I/O. The homomorphism is sending us to the Kleisli category where that monad is a fixed background effect.
17:57:07 <ais523> and the latter view is easy to understand and reason about – but the former view is the one you are mostly using when programming in it
17:57:31 <korvo> Right. The latter is what we do with Forth-style stack-effect comments like ( x y -- z w z )
17:57:35 <ais523> for languages which are further away from concatenative calculus, the monad is pulling more weight and is less visible
17:58:01 <korvo> But the former is what we operationalize with e.g. Haskell stacks like (x, (y, Stack)) -> (z, (w, (z, Stack)))
17:58:21 <ais523> so defining them as concatenative means that you are trying to force the monad "into view", and into the definition of syntax fragments as functions, when it isn't something that programmers consciously think about usually
17:58:47 <korvo> Yes. And for languages like Cammy, with *no* background monad, this hopefully trivializes; one can pretend that Cammy is always talking about sets.
17:59:28 <ais523> fwiw, I'm generally a believer that statically typed languages should try to make their background monads more visible, especially by integrating them into the type system
17:59:55 <ais523> I think effect systems are an example of that sort of thing
18:00:14 <ais523> and Haskell is substantially in that direction already (although I don't use it much)
18:01:13 <korvo> So, here's a concrete motivation for compiler engineers: concatenative reasoning can be used to iterate over a list of operations, and a monoid can be used to optimize those iterations down into a single action.
18:01:41 <korvo> Peephole optimizers are an obvious example, but abstract interpreters can be defined to generally walk over a list (or anything traversable, of course...)
18:01:54 <ais523> so compiler intermediate representations have been gradually moving in that direction – but they also usually have more symmetries than a monoid implies
18:02:17 <ais523> so you end up with something that is a monoid, but has extra structure on top (and typically doesn't syntactically match the original language)
18:02:44 <korvo> Well, tell me what you think of this: https://github.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/blob/main/bf/bf.py#L163-L192
18:03:09 <ais523> oh right, Github doesn't work without JS nowadays
18:03:12 <korvo> This is a one-register abstract interpreter over BF. Its correctness is mostly from the idea that we really do have a monoid.
18:03:33 <ais523> (pull requests still work, and readmes on project home pages, just not anything else)
18:04:00 <korvo> Are raw links still working? https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/refs/heads/main/bf/bf.py
18:04:50 <ais523> korvo: I loaded it, eventually
18:05:01 <ais523> I find it hard to read and hard to get an idea of whether or not it's correct
18:05:59 <ais523> …also I was surprised that I'm apparently not the only person who habitually uses "rv" for temporary variables that are used to construct the return value of a function, despite the name being an obvious initialism
18:07:17 <ais523> anyway, things like "elif adHead is anAdd and ad is aZero: bfHead, adHead, immHead = bf, ad, imm" look like bugs to me – I assume that adds are more complicated than zeros, so why would you overwrite the add with the zero?
18:07:28 <ais523> but that doesn't mean they are bugs, it might just mean that I'm not understanding how the code works
18:08:48 <korvo> adHead is the next instruction to commit and ad is the next instruction to decode. This corresponds to BF code like `++[-]`; we're committed to adding 2, but that will be wiped out by an unconditional 0.
18:09:09 <ais523> ah, I see – it's a "set to zero" instruction, so you're wiping out any previous changes
18:09:21 <korvo> Ah, yeah, like in bfmacro.
18:10:17 <ais523> I guess this code is not making use of the monoidal nature of BF because it would work just as well scanning left to right
18:11:00 <ais523> …although it's hard to imagine a nonassociative version of BF that could be used to demonstrate the code still working
18:11:44 <ais523> "do a, then (b then c)" is basically inherently equivalent to "do (a then b), then c" and I can't currently think of a way to break it even in an esolang
18:11:52 <ais523> maybe some sort of race condition/
18:11:55 <korvo> The correctness stems from the idea that a monoid can always be forcefully turned from a sequence into a (left-leaning?) tree, and then we can do induction and recursion.
18:12:55 <ais523> korvo: I was thinking of the converse: I agree the fact that it's a monoid makes it correct, *but* the approach seems conceptually correct even for non-monoids
18:13:12 <ais523> it's just that it's hard to verify how that works because it's hard to imagine the underlying operation being nonassociative
18:13:29 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
18:13:32 <ais523> I guess it's easier to imagine the underlying operation not having an identity
18:14:27 <ais523> although that would be a weird language design exercise: to create a language where (e.g.) empty program and loop bodys aren't allowed, and there is no way to combine commands in order to produce a no-op
18:16:44 <korvo> Elements of bicategories are monads, so there's probably some flavor of Hilton-Eckmann argument nearby.
18:17:58 <korvo> Anyway, I'll come back to this eventually, if I find the motivation again.
18:18:12 <korvo> Sometimes contributing to this wiki makes me want to smash a keyboard against the wall.
18:20:24 <ais523> I frequently have trouble producing the motivation to do anything
18:27:15 <korvo> Well, I'll stop being a distraction.
18:27:39 <ais523> I'm not sure that distractions really hurt (except that sometimes I can't even get the motivation to go on IRC)
18:28:53 -!- korvo has left.
18:28:57 <ais523> (to be clear, sometimes I'm offline for other reasons – if distractions would be a problem I just disconnect from the Internet)
18:46:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
18:47:04 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:53:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:53:39 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
18:54:05 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
18:54:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:54:45 -!- citrons has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:55:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:55:22 -!- tromp has joined.
18:55:26 -!- FreeFull has joined.
18:56:35 -!- leah2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:56:54 -!- leah2 has joined.
18:57:36 -!- gry has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
18:57:50 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
18:57:51 -!- gry has joined.
18:59:55 -!- citrons has joined.
19:07:40 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:23:28 -!- tromp has joined.
19:39:29 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:46:49 <int-e> . o O ( imagine using WASM just to get access to a 64 bit integer type )
19:59:26 -!- tromp has joined.
20:05:15 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157862&oldid=157859 * Aadenboy * (+8) marking this as a work in progress since some sections are blank
20:05:54 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157863&oldid=157860 * TheCatFromGithub * (+1856) explained the language
20:07:10 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157864&oldid=157863 * TheCatFromGithub * (+39) /* Examples */ add example
20:08:12 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157865&oldid=157864 * TheCatFromGithub * (+43)
20:09:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
20:23:48 -!- tromp has joined.
20:48:18 <int-e> Hmm, why is BV so isolated in https://smt-lib.org/logics.shtml (can't be combined with any (linear) arithmetic flavors)... I guess it's intentionally a fragment that can be bit-blasted?
21:09:10 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
21:13:30 -!- tromp has joined.
21:34:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
22:08:11 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:13:19 -!- lisbeths has joined.
22:23:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Las-r * New user account
22:30:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157866&oldid=157837 * Las-r * (+260) introduction
22:30:41 <esolangs> [[Greed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157867 * Las-r * (+881) Create page.
22:32:28 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157868&oldid=157867 * Las-r * (-12) Fix formatting
22:33:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157869&oldid=157855 * Buckets * (+10)
22:34:11 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157870&oldid=157771 * Buckets * (+9)
22:34:24 <esolangs> [[Jil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157871 * Buckets * (+1401) Created page with "Jil is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | > || Set the Input to The current Target. |- | - || Set the Target to The Next character as A Variable. |- | < || Output The Current target I
22:35:25 <esolangs> [[Jil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157872&oldid=157871 * Buckets * (+1)
22:37:12 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157873&oldid=157868 * Las-r * (+109) Add links to source and creator.
22:39:47 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157874&oldid=157873 * Las-r * (+16)
22:42:14 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157875&oldid=157874 * Las-r * (+40) Add categories
22:42:53 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157876&oldid=157875 * Las-r * (+1) Fix categories
22:43:05 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157877&oldid=157876 * Las-r * (-3)
22:47:30 <esolangs> [[Treadnil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157878&oldid=148990 * BoundedBeans * (-1) Fixed Truth machine
22:47:40 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157879&oldid=157844 * H33T33 * (+592)
22:50:02 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157880&oldid=157877 * Las-r * (+85) Add more categories
22:53:01 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157881&oldid=152431 * Las-r * (+200) Add greed
22:54:50 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157882&oldid=157881 * Las-r * (-30) Fix formatting so greed doesnt get cut off
22:57:46 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157883&oldid=157880 * Las-r * (+108) Add brainfuck inspiration
22:59:09 <b_jonas> ais523 "empty program and loop bodys aren't allowed, and there is no way to combine commands in order to produce a no-op" => you could do that with a hypothetical CPU where every instruction overwrites a result or flags register, so if you want to do a conditional branch with the status flags you have to put the branch instruction right after the compare instruction (with not even a function call or
22:59:15 <b_jonas> return between) and if you want to store the result of some arithmetic then you have to put the store right after the arithmetic instruction
23:01:58 <b_jonas> no no-op combinations because you can never preserve both result registers from the previous state, only one of the two
23:06:53 <b_jonas> or you could have a machine where every instruction writes exactly one of the eight generaly purpose registers, and the instruction can never read and write the same register, so you always lose the value of one of the eight
23:12:23 <b_jonas> heck, let's make that sillier, there are 9 general purpose registers, every instruction nominally has two register input arguments and one register output arguments and all three must be distinct, and the three register indexes together are encoded into a 9 bit field. some instructions ignore one or both nominal input registers, just to keep the operand encoding uniform, but the output register is
23:20:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
23:22:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:22:01 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
00:22:30 -!- lisbeths has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
00:49:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157884&oldid=157866 * Shazun bhasfu * (+248) /* Introductions */
01:03:02 <esolangs> [[Somp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157885 * Shazun bhasfu * (+855) the somp esolang!
01:03:19 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157886&oldid=157885 * Shazun bhasfu * (+1)
01:03:31 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157887&oldid=157886 * Shazun bhasfu * (+4)
01:05:49 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
01:06:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157888&oldid=157554 * None1 * (+284) /* What counts as a machine? */
01:21:36 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157889 * None1 * (+965) Created page with ":{{Distinguish/Confusion|text=the non-esoteric machine language, which is the language used by the CPU directly.}} '''Machine-language''', as opposed to [[Anti-machine language]], is invented by [[User:None1]]. ==Execution== This esolang is the same as [[brainfu
01:21:45 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157890&oldid=157889 * None1 * (+0)
01:22:44 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157891&oldid=156958 * None1 * (+67) /* General languages */
01:23:10 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157892&oldid=157219 * None1 * (+66)
01:24:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157893&oldid=157846 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+136)
01:50:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157894&oldid=157893 * Hotcrystal0 * (+292)
01:50:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157895&oldid=157894 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
02:18:20 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157896&oldid=157865 * TheCatFromGithub * (+67)
To update automatically, stalker mode requires a reasonably modern browser with scripts enabled. If this message does not disappear, it's either because of that or a bug. Feel free to get in touch on channel for debugging. Or just work around the issue by manually reloading.