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01:38:24 <GregorR> Like I said, I'm still avoiding actually doing it.
01:38:34 <Keymaker> i mean, try getting this program to brainfuck.. while((a-1!)==A || (b/3234.134900)>500.2){ ...
01:40:35 <Keymaker> not to mention things like int data[30][20][20][10]; :)
01:42:12 <Keymaker> heh, not to mention error routines..
01:42:32 <GregorR> If you divide up the parse tree enough and make liberal use of temporary variables, it shouldn't be such a huge problem.
01:42:58 <GregorR> Mind you, I still have no intention of writing this any time soon ;P
01:44:32 <nooga> *and make liberal use of temporary variables*
01:45:11 <Keymaker> yeah, just remember that there is only one tape.. it's not going to be that easy to move everything around :)
01:45:35 <GregorR> Not much moving around is involved.
01:45:44 <GregorR> The tape is divided into groups of four.
01:46:10 <Keymaker> oops, sorry, i thought accidentally that you're writing the whole thing in brainfuck
01:46:11 <GregorR> {stack} {heap} {stack-location-store (0 for beginning/end, to make looping easy)} {walk}
01:46:25 <Keymaker> and meant that temporary values aren't that easy to get there :9
01:47:14 <Keymaker> i wonder what i was thinking.. :)
01:47:47 <GregorR> Presumably, if I wrote it in C...
01:47:54 <GregorR> Eventually it could be ported to C2BF syntax.
01:48:39 <Keymaker> actually by running the original c program through c2bf..
01:49:00 <Keymaker> or well, not if the c2bf syntax is something different
01:50:39 <GregorR> Well, the syntax would ideally be exactly the same.
01:50:44 <GregorR> The main problem is our good friend libc.
01:50:49 <GregorR> And the lack of file I/O :)
01:51:32 <GregorR> A hypothetical compiler to compile C code into BF.
01:52:14 <nooga> [09:08] <Keymaker> actually by running the original c program through c2bf..
01:55:06 <GregorR> That's not something you can predict in the compiler.
01:55:14 <GregorR> I was thinking int == 2 cells
01:56:18 <nooga> theres bfbasic, so why not C...
01:56:53 <GregorR> Because C has a much more complicated syntax, local variables, recursion ...
01:57:40 <nooga> i knew that language is shit
01:57:41 <GregorR> I don't know about BFBASIC (I think it supports gosub, and that might support recursion ...)
01:57:44 <puzzlet> does bfbasic compile basic to bf, or vice versa?
01:57:55 <GregorR> BF to Basic would be trivial :P
01:58:51 <nooga> bootstraping c2bf would be funny
01:58:58 <nooga> compiling the compiler
01:59:13 <nooga> and then c2bf compiler would be in bf xD
01:59:31 <GregorR> "You must have egobfi16 installed to run c2bf (That's right, it has to be EgoBF. Hahaha)"
02:00:12 <nooga> i think 3k cells is too few
02:02:17 <Keymaker> i think basics are a lot better than languages like c.. brainfuck is a basic
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02:02:39 <GregorR> Hmm ... if I parsed that statement properly ... I hate you.
02:03:01 <nooga> Keymaker: try C++ ;p
02:03:09 <Keymaker> well, you don't need functions or such anywhere :p
02:03:09 <GregorR> If you're a pansy, try Java.
02:03:23 <GregorR> If you're an infant, try C# :P
02:03:31 <GregorR> Infants are too intelligent ...
02:03:37 <GregorR> If you're an Australopithicene.
02:03:42 <nooga> M$ gives C# <-> BASIC .NET translation thingy
02:03:56 <nooga> use it and compare what's nicer
02:04:44 <GregorR> Idonno about C# <-> BASIC ...
02:05:28 <GregorR> By "basic" do you mean simple ...
02:05:31 <nooga> i've got $30 in my pocket ;D
02:05:32 <GregorR> Or by "basic" do you mean BASIC
02:05:43 <GregorR> That capitalization is not for emphasis btw.
02:08:26 <nooga> c2bf would be s breaktrough ;p
02:09:26 <GregorR> Keymaker: No, only BASIC is BASIC.
02:09:30 <GregorR> Hence the term "trademark"
02:12:56 <GregorR> Yeah yeah, mock everybody else's pathetic drawing abilities why doncha ;P
02:12:56 <nooga> but it's hard to understand for uninitiated :>
02:13:05 <nooga> http://agentj.kewlnet.int.pl/wysypisko/uploads/strip1.gif
02:13:16 <nooga> note that gui is *NET* Jesus
02:13:40 <nooga> i'm computer pervert :D
02:14:28 <nooga> "Hi AOD! What are you doing?" - "a... i'm resting" :)
02:14:59 <nooga> because you dont know AOD :>
02:15:16 <GregorR> Keep in mind that he's resting on a cross :P
02:15:23 <GregorR> Is he nailed in properly or just tied?
02:16:25 <nooga> aod says that the cross should be turned upside-down
02:17:14 <GregorR> I have only one response to that.
02:17:22 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg
02:18:04 <nooga> who should kill himself/
02:18:25 <GregorR> Whoever is moved deeply by that song :P
02:19:36 <nooga> but the rest is ... khem
02:19:57 <nooga> you should sing with a real band ;p
02:20:07 <GregorR> Except that my voice is incredibly annoying.
02:20:18 <nooga> better than mine ;p
02:20:37 <nooga> but i play guitar in prog rock band and not singing :D
02:23:08 <nooga> damn... idk english
02:24:37 <nooga> last days I'm screwing up almost every sentence, wrong tenses, werid words...
02:25:15 <GregorR> For example, "last days I'm" ;)
02:25:33 <GregorR> I'm being nitpicky though, I know what you mean ;)
02:25:53 <GregorR> Well, weird is a weird enough word as is.
02:26:14 <nooga> ha... but try to talk Polish
02:26:28 <nooga> ha.. sprbuj mwi po Polsku
02:27:07 <GregorR> I even typed that, not copy/paste 8-D
02:27:13 <GregorR> See, I can speak Polish :P
02:27:17 <nooga> lol... i mean't speak
02:27:51 <nooga> and u sounds the same but there's a difference in writing
02:28:14 <nooga> dpa = ass is incorrect, dupa is :>
02:29:11 <nooga> piesi = pedestrian, pies = dog :>
02:29:58 <nooga> pieszy = pedestrian, psy = dogs
02:32:45 <nooga> http://www.pantadeusz.com/poemat/tekst/ksiega-04.html
02:33:19 <nooga> fragment of our national epopee ;p
02:37:09 <nooga> but Finnish is better :D
02:40:13 <Keymaker> so it's something like epic poem?
02:40:50 <Keymaker> there's at least one good painting of our epic poem kalevala; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gallen_Kallela_The_Aino_Triptych.jpg
02:43:02 <nooga> http://images.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.zascianek.pl/users/PanTadeusz/An3_2m.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.zascianek.pl/users/PanTadeusz/PT3_2.htm&h=550&w=445&sz=37&tbnid=nVG2uNCERZ-98M:&tbnh=130&tbnw=105&hl=pl&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpan%2Btadeusz%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dpl%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:pl-PL:official%26sa%3DG
02:43:30 <nooga> http://www.literatura.zapis.net.pl/pan_tadeusz/gfx5.jpg
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08:38:54 <{^Raven^}> GregorR: Grab the BFBASIC 1.50 source from CVS. It has got better line number support than 1.30
08:39:46 <{^Raven^}> The old version maxed out at 256 lines but the new code supports unlimited line numbers and is much faster
08:54:56 <{^Raven^}> GregorR: BASIC is not a trademark, it's an acromym of Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
08:55:38 <{^Raven^}> keymaker: BF is directly similiar to the machine language your average processor might execute
08:56:29 * {^Raven^} finishes replying to a conversation that happened last night :P
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10:32:07 <ihope> Weird error message: d34D|o(K: /\/\AiN t|-|r3AD bl0CkED iN A $TRan93 WAY
10:32:26 <ihope> Well, not really, I mean, um...
10:33:48 <ihope> Urk! Inventing strangely-kinded void TyCon: ZCt{tc a2AN} (* -> *) -> * -> *
10:42:17 <SimonRC> Sorry, Uni completely fell off the net.
10:43:46 <ihope> @malbolge Syntax error!
10:44:07 <ihope> !malbolge Syntax error!
10:44:11 <EgoBot> invalid character in source file
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13:58:19 <jix> moin calamari
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16:01:57 <ihope_> What would happen if I popped in with XiRCON?
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16:43:38 <GregorR> I'll come back in three hours and ask what XiRCON is.
16:44:01 <Keymaker> i'll start writing the answer.. may take a few months
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17:01:40 <Keymaker> nothing happens here! except this kind of complaining lines! :p
17:03:37 <GregorR> I don't think I can figure out the "line numbering" concept from this code.
17:03:50 <GregorR> I think we need to force calamari to write it out as a paper.
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17:04:33 <GregorR> Hmm, apparently saying "calamari" attracted calamari's attention.
17:04:41 <calamari> are you referring to the cvs code?
17:05:00 <calamari> brought me back from the dead.. err reading wikipedia
17:05:03 <GregorR> There's a BFBASIC CVS repository? X-P
17:05:26 <Keymaker> once in a while there was interesting things like dbc's message to aliens: http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=esoteric&date=030207..
17:06:03 <Keymaker> although, i wasn't here then, i'm just reading old logs
17:06:11 <GregorR> I just googled BFBASIC >_>
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17:08:23 <calamari> one min, I think I have a bookmark to it
17:09:21 <calamari> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brainfuck/
17:10:09 <calamari> isn't it a wonderful example of source that should never have been released?
17:11:02 <GregorR> So, no way we're going to convince you to explain your "line numbering" concept outside the realm of BFBASIC code? :P
17:11:21 <calamari> well, the problem is that I have a terrible memory
17:11:29 <calamari> and I've honestly forgotten the new scheme
17:11:35 <calamari> although I remember the old one
17:11:42 <GregorR> Not the good kind of awesome ;)
17:11:56 <calamari> the old one worked quite well, but was limited to 255 line numbers
17:12:12 <calamari> the new one did not have a limit, if I remember correctly
17:12:24 <GregorR> Hmm, 255 no-matter-what, or 255 for 8-bit BF?
17:12:34 <calamari> it's possible that Raven remembers it better than I do, because I explained it to him at the time
17:13:04 <GregorR> And I thought "Oh, whoops, I'm not going to get GNU Bison"
17:13:12 <GregorR> "I needed to put GNU in the search string"
17:13:23 <GregorR> WHOOOOOOOO! SOFTWARE BEATS NATURE!
17:13:45 <GregorR> I'll bet it has a .y file for C.
17:14:22 <Keymaker> hm, wouldn't like to meen an angry bison in nature
17:14:50 <GregorR> From the experiences I've had with bison, I have no idea how you'd make them angry.
17:14:54 <GregorR> Or, you know, make them move at all.
17:15:00 <kipple> I wouldn't like to meet an angry gnu either
17:15:26 <kipple> and definately not an angry Richard Stallman
17:18:44 <calamari> wow, what a cool idea.. wish I would have thought of it.. hmm, I did!
17:18:55 <calamari> okay here is the new line # scheme
17:19:30 <calamari> it uses an array of cells, one cell per linenumber
17:20:36 <calamari> right now it just does a linear search, but binary search could be done as well
17:21:29 <GregorR> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
17:21:52 <GregorR> So am I to understand that it has a sort of main loop that checks "what function should I be calling" and then goes to that code?
17:23:06 <calamari> I'm still reading, I may have improved it
17:23:07 <GregorR> So then, for a structural language like C, there would have to be a "line number" created for every function, every label, and everywhere a function can return to.
17:23:43 <GregorR> And assuming that we just divide the tape one more time (groups of five instead of four), there's no reason why there couldn't be infinite-many.
17:24:05 <GregorR> {stack} {heap} {func-to-call} {pos-in-stack} {walk}
17:25:16 <calamari> anyhow, since its being compiled, it knows how many line numbers there are so it can allocate memory appropriately
17:26:28 <kipple> BFBasic is written in java right?
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17:29:35 <kipple> is the BASUC parser written from scratch, or does it use an available library?
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17:30:11 <calamari> here is my original description of it
17:30:35 <GregorR> kipple: From scratch AFAICT
17:30:38 <calamari> Mar 12 23:45:17 <calamari> if each jump destination has its own memory location reserved for the test then it's a much simpler test
17:30:38 <calamari> Mar 12 23:47:43 <calamari> so to jump to label 101, you set the 101th memory element to 1. then a section of code looks
17:31:00 <calamari> Mar 12 23:50:03 <{^Raven^}> it looks like it could simplify things hugely, doing a simple check for a 1 in a memory location will definately be a lot more efficient
17:31:00 <calamari> Mar 12 23:50:22 <calamari> not even a 1.. just non-zero
17:34:35 <kipple> I'm thinking of implementing my new BASIC inspired esolang in java, but I guess I'll write the parser from scratch too. Shouldn't be too hard
17:35:22 <GregorR> What's with people not using parser generators :P
17:35:39 <GregorR> (Gregor says, having not used a parser generator for Glass or ORK :P )
17:36:04 <calamari> its fun writing your own parser, isnt it
17:36:25 <GregorR> Depending on the language.
17:36:26 <kipple> often as quick as learning a generic tool too
17:36:38 <GregorR> A) It wouldn't be fun to write a parser for, say C++.
17:36:45 <GregorR> B) It wouldn't be fun to write a bottom-up parser.
17:36:48 <calamari> okay, well, at least I feel a little better now :)
17:37:07 <calamari> hate it when I can't remember things
17:37:35 <calamari> does my description give you enough to go on?
17:37:45 <GregorR> Not that I'll go mind you.
17:37:49 <GregorR> Still a vague ambition ^_^
17:37:54 <calamari> the line "numbers" are pretty simple themselves
17:38:11 <calamari> because they just go to the appropriate cell and see if its non zero
17:38:21 <calamari> this is all inline throughout the code
17:38:41 <calamari> there isn't a central function that checks
17:39:24 <calamari> that is what I got wrong in my original description of it
17:39:36 <calamari> since it can just do a > and check the next cell
17:39:57 <calamari> that is where the list comes in
17:40:19 <GregorR> They'll be all over the place in C2BF (was it ever to be written) :P
17:40:52 <GregorR> The more I think about it, the more I think that blocks will have to be divided as such >_>
17:41:30 <GregorR> Though hopefully I'm wrong ^_^''
17:41:46 <calamari> well, its like a bunch of if's back to back
17:42:04 <calamari> same oncept as my original, but the test is much simpler in the array version
17:42:23 <calamari> since before I had to do an = comparison
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17:43:00 <GregorR> And since we can assume that the tape is infinite, there's no issue with space :P
17:43:03 <calamari> of course, the best way to do things would be to re-compile the code
17:43:22 <calamari> conver everything to gotos and labels and then figure out what while loops they need
17:43:41 <GregorR> Well, that's essentially what has to be done anyway *shrugs*
17:43:41 <calamari> that would be the ultimate solution in terms of speed
17:44:26 <calamari> it's a complicated problem to solve, tho
17:44:49 <calamari> maybe you can solve it and you write the paper :)
17:47:45 <calamari> basically if you can write a spaghetti -> bf compiler
18:28:56 <GregorR> I just wrote a braindump onto paper.
18:29:01 <GregorR> And put it ... somewhere :P
18:34:23 <GregorR> As in, wrote everything I've thusfar considered about C2BF.
18:38:06 <GregorR> Any suggestions where I should upload this ...?
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18:44:04 <GregorR> *sigh*, guess I'll put it on codu.org
18:44:20 <GregorR> Because I have very limited space and bandwidth there.
18:47:46 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/c2bf.pdf
18:59:36 <GregorR> There's one problem that will make C2BF incapable of being more than a subset of C: Functions are pointers in C. Code has no memory location in C2BF.
19:05:02 <GregorR> Anybody else have any comments? :P
19:05:43 <GregorR> The goto table could actually be in the stack.
19:05:54 <GregorR> Then, a function pointer would be a pointer to that location in the stack.
19:05:58 <GregorR> And a call would be "set this to one"
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19:37:15 <GregorR> There's a C parser in YACC in GCC (naturally)
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20:36:11 <GregorR> Grrr ... I need to find a good compiler to rip the tokenizer and parser out of.
20:38:13 <GregorR> I think adding a backend to GCC would probably be more of a PITA than rolling my own XD
20:38:53 <kipple> but can't you rip the parser out of it?
20:39:49 <GregorR> I've been trying, but it seems to be very, very integrated.
20:40:31 <kipple> surely there must be some usable open source C-parser out there...
20:41:05 <GregorR> Actually, lemme be a bit more explicit.
20:41:09 <GregorR> This is what makes it so difficult.
20:41:18 <GregorR> Parser /and semantic checker/ :)
20:41:33 <GregorR> Semantic checkers are what make them so tied to the compiler.
20:46:12 <GregorR> Sun wrote a backend for GCC that compiles to C.
20:46:19 <GregorR> So it ought to be possible to write a BF backend ...
20:46:23 <GregorR> Maybe I ought to bark up that tree.
20:49:03 <GregorR> At this rate I'll end up actually writing C2BF.
20:54:05 <calamari> I forget what you are actually trying to do
20:54:29 <calamari> I think it has something to do with bf :)
20:54:53 <calamari> why don't you make a glass backend for gcc and get the feel for things :)
20:55:34 <GregorR> Because Glass would actually probably be /more/ difficult.
20:57:11 * GregorR reads "Porting GCC For Dunces"
21:01:58 <GregorR> I could emulate "registers" by carefully carrying them with me ...
21:02:02 <GregorR> But it would suck horribly ..........
21:02:09 <GregorR> In other words: GCC is probably not an option :P
21:08:49 * GregorR updates c2bf.pdf to have info on function pointers
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22:26:38 <GregorR> Anybody have any interest or care to make any comments on c2bf.pdf? :P
22:26:54 <GregorR> (I suppose, if I actually FINISHED c2bf, then suddenly interest levels would spike :P )
22:33:25 <GregorR> Hmm, since when can you not repeat enumerator names in different enums >_<
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23:21:11 <GregorR> Err, hmm - now that I think about it, a TOTALLY different implementation could do registers easily ^^
23:21:20 <GregorR> But I'll bet pointer dereferencing wasn't all that efficient?
23:36:38 <pgimeno> oh, I didn't know about gcc2c
23:43:59 <pgimeno> "gcc2c represents every local variable as an integer and type-casts it when it is used."
23:44:26 <pgimeno> maybe you can even forget about the c2bf2c step
23:45:06 <GregorR> It does come out of GCC2C pretty terribly :)
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00:16:37 <calamari> GregorR: you can just treat registers as memory locations
00:17:12 <calamari> with fancy names for the memory locations :)
00:17:17 <GregorR> It's not a problem for writing my own compiler.
00:17:23 <GregorR> It's only a problem if I want to put it in GCC.
00:17:34 <GregorR> In which case, treating it as a variable becomes infinitely problematic.
00:19:13 <lament> how hard is it to play the flute?
00:19:55 <GregorR> To just produce a sound, or to actually play it?
00:20:03 <puzzlet> easier than clarinet i think
00:21:07 <lament> http://z3.ca/~lament/syrinx.mp3
00:21:31 <GregorR> Well, as a professional flautist ... :P
00:21:39 <lament> how long would it take a total beginner with clumsy fingers starting at age 21 to play that well? :)
00:22:15 <GregorR> Do you play any instrument?
00:22:58 <GregorR> Woah, WTF, it didn't work XD
00:23:30 <lament> i play some instruments
00:24:07 <lament> well, harmonica, but i doubt that's what you meant :)
00:24:19 <GregorR> It is my untrained opinion that you will never play that well.
00:24:42 <lament> GregorR: do you actually play the flute?
00:24:48 <lament> and have you heard the recording? :)
00:25:06 <calamari> lament: you need to start young
00:25:07 <GregorR> It's simple enough, but I doubt it's as simple as it sounds.
00:25:15 <GregorR> And the flute has a complicated pad setup.
00:25:21 <GregorR> It's not like a piano keyboard or harmonica.
00:25:26 <lament> it doesn't sound simple at all to me
00:25:35 <lament> and harmonicas are reasonably bizarre
00:25:57 <GregorR> Amongst other things, I can play the harmonica - what I mean is that it needs combinations, etc.
00:26:07 <lament> calamari: yes, but i have problems overblowing
00:27:12 <lament> GregorR: i know it does
00:27:26 <lament> but that doesn't make it impossible to learn :)
00:27:34 <calamari> lament: where did you get the flute mp3?
00:27:39 <GregorR> But, if you don't play at least a relatively similar instrument, the learning curve would probably be quite high.
00:28:12 <GregorR> I could ask my music major friend for his opinion ;P
00:28:12 <calamari> lament: is it copyrighted or free?
00:28:30 <lament> calamari: I have no idea. Don't listen to it, it might be tainted.
00:28:42 <lament> by downloading it, you're promoting communism
00:28:58 <GregorR> From kazaa, it's almost certainly copyrighted.
00:29:02 <lament> i'll have to see if any of my friends have a flute
00:29:15 <lament> what instruments do you play?
00:29:34 <calamari> I'd leave this country if there wre a better one to go to.. but there isn't afaik
00:29:47 <GregorR> Piano, viola and I dabble in harmonica but haven't ever cared enough to play it seriously *shrugs*
00:30:36 <GregorR> What's wrong with the Viola?!
00:30:45 <GregorR> The viola is a REAL MANS instrument.
00:31:01 <GregorR> More portable than the cello but not as high as the violin.
00:31:29 <GregorR> My music major friend, incidentally, plays the cello, and pokes fun at me for my selection of the viola :P
00:32:23 <lament> i guess on the plus side, you could pretend the viola's a violin and play violin pieces on it?
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00:32:54 <GregorR> Or, I could play superior, deeper, more toneful viola pieces on it.
00:33:18 <puzzlet> i never heard of those things
00:33:32 <lament> puzzlet: yeah... me neither
00:33:46 <lament> not just superior and deeper
00:33:54 <lament> i've never heard of ANY viola pieces :)
00:34:17 <puzzlet> and cello pieces arraged for viola
00:34:17 <GregorR> Some composers fancy the viola.
00:35:12 <lament> right... the "Lesser-known" ones :)
00:35:55 <lament> "A concerto for viola and three contrabassoons by John Whatshisname"
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00:49:25 <GregorR> nooga: http://www.codu.org/c2bf.pdf
00:49:33 <GregorR> If you have any comments, feel free :P
00:56:41 <nooga> idk what to say... nice, I would never figure it out myself
00:57:40 <GregorR> Well, it seems like it'll work, but I can't guarantee anything until I write some code.
00:57:49 <GregorR> And I can't really write any code until I finish making this damn AST >_<
00:57:57 <GregorR> Then I'll have a parser and can actually do something :P
00:59:49 <GregorR> I found an ANSI C parser in YACC.
01:00:03 <GregorR> I just need to go the extra step and turn it into an AST instead of just a syntax-verifier.
01:02:28 <nooga> http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/ANSI-C-grammar-y.html << this one?
01:02:28 <GregorR> And no, it's not very difficult.
01:02:45 <GregorR> It's a very mechanical process, that I have to do for about fourty nonterminals :P
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01:05:27 <nooga> c2bf will be awesome
01:05:39 <GregorR> Don't count on it actually existing at any point XD
01:05:47 <GregorR> Just because I have a dream doesn't mean it'll ever come true.
01:07:27 <nooga> I don't despair ;p
01:10:13 <nooga> don't u think you should take some ppl to help u/
01:13:09 <GregorR> Well, the easiest part to divide up would be implementation of the basic operations.
01:13:23 <GregorR> Since each of those will basically just be a chunk of BF code.
01:13:31 <GregorR> However, I'm not really far enough to do that yet ^_^
01:13:41 <GregorR> And I'm not sure how to divide up this task :P
01:14:43 <nooga> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms << and we've got this
01:14:52 <GregorR> Yes, that will help immensely.
01:14:54 <nooga> Jeff did good work
01:22:32 <nooga> hey, where do you study?
01:25:59 <nooga> that's where this guy built that cool relay computer?
01:27:08 <GregorR> Man, I'll have to talk to this guy 8-D
01:28:00 <GregorR> I've taken every course he offers :'(
01:29:03 <GregorR> Anyway, PSU is really getting very good for computer science, and is especially good for open source :)
01:29:05 <nooga> http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/index.html
01:30:11 <GregorR> That was the guy I was just talking about.
01:30:20 <GregorR> If I had taken compilers last term, I could have taken it from him :'(
01:30:32 <GregorR> And went "OMG RELAY COMPUTER U ROX0RRRRRRRRRRZ!!!"
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01:32:41 <nooga> it must make funny sounds
01:32:51 <nooga> click click click ^ 2
01:33:36 * GregorR just wrote another page of c2bf.pdf
01:37:33 <nooga> in a minute i'll be going to #&@^(%Q#)^$@&#)%^&@# school
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07:28:07 <kipple> only one? good for you!
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07:58:37 <Keymaker> so there is a looping malbolge version of 99 bottles of beer.. awesome..
07:58:54 <Keymaker> i wonder if there is anything explanations on how the program works or was written?
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08:50:33 <ihope> If somebody managed to "almost" write a Malbolge "beer program", why no proper "Hello, world!"?
08:51:07 <Keymaker> so, is that looping version valid or not?
08:51:55 <Keymaker> there are two versions there, one that is just priting lyrics and another one that says it's looping
08:52:15 <Keymaker> oh, and wikipedia page says that some example program there prints out "Hello, world."
08:52:54 <Keymaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge_programming_language
08:53:07 <Keymaker> (=<`:9876Z4321UT.-Q+*)M'&%$H"!~}|Bzy?=|{z]KwZY44Eq0/{mlk**
08:53:07 <Keymaker> hKs_dG5[m_BA{?-Y;;Vb'rR5431M}/.zHGwEDCBA@98\6543W10/.R,+O<
08:53:35 <ihope> Looks like the "other one" to me.
08:56:33 <ihope> !malbolge '=a;:?87[543216/SR2+*No-,%*#G4
08:56:53 <ihope> ...Well, that's a start, anyway.
08:57:02 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
08:57:04 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
08:58:04 <ihope> Well, it's certainly different.
08:58:15 <ihope> The "other one" I was thinking of: (=<`$9]7<5YXz7wT.3,+O/o'K%$H"'~D|#z@b=`{^Lx8%$Xmrkpohm-kNi;gsedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543s+O<oLm
10:54:44 <SimonRC> Surely there isn't a looping HW in malbolge?
10:55:27 <SimonRC> I know there is a 99BOB, but that only outputs the gzip, which is hard-coded.
10:55:49 <SimonRC> AFAIK, the only loop written in malbolge is cat.
11:10:17 <pgimeno> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html
11:10:36 <pgimeno> EgoBot, I was not talking to you :P
11:12:56 <pgimeno> I will run it through a malbolge debugger, I have to see that in action to believe it
11:20:06 <pgimeno> judging by the execution speed it might even be true! oh my...
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11:26:41 <Keymaker> simonrc, that was what i was talking about..
11:26:59 <Keymaker> at least the 99bob page claims it's looping
11:27:16 <SimonRC> It looks mightly repetative to me
11:27:57 <pgimeno> yep, that's because there's lots of waste in Malbolge programs
11:28:31 <pgimeno> it has a one-time setup phase similar to the one I suggest
11:33:32 <pgimeno> thanks for the reference, Keymaker
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11:38:51 <pgimeno> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/bottles-995.n <- the normalized version
11:41:44 <pgimeno> the program starts by jumping to address 98 where the initialization routine starts; there's no single jump from there until position 22044 approx.
11:42:59 <pgimeno> there isn't an output instruction there eiter, so it's safe to assume that the initialization is about 22K
11:44:21 <pgimeno> quite expectable given the complexity of the program; I'd even say it's a very compact one
11:53:39 <Keymaker> do you think it's somehow computer generated?
11:54:07 <Keymaker> instead of written instruction by instruction by hand
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13:31:15 <nooga> jix: u must be techno god or something
13:31:30 <nooga> being 14 yr old and writing parsers in haskell -.-
13:44:26 <fizzie> When I was 14 I wrote C. :/
13:44:41 <fizzie> At least that's a lot more normal.
13:45:29 <nooga> lol, writing parsers in C being 14y old? x.X
13:45:41 <fizzie> Not very sophisticated parsers, no. :p
13:46:03 <nooga> was it real parser using at least recursion? with lexer and so on?
13:46:23 <fizzie> I think I've managed to lose all my embarrassing code from that age, so can't say.
13:47:03 <fizzie> Although we did have some sort of weird DOS-based Prolog runtime in our 8088 (or was it the 286?) when I was in the tender age of something like 6 to 8. Although I'm not claiming I used it. It did have some example programs, though.
13:49:24 <fizzie> I just did GW-BASIC back then. I'm surprised I didn't emerge any more scarred that I am.
13:49:26 <nooga> when i was 6 to 8 i could only run my favourite games from a dos prompt
13:50:06 <nooga> started programming with @%(@$ TURBO damn PASCAL when i was 10
13:50:59 <nooga> only thing i've done was some stupid thingy with green letters that simulated something...
13:51:46 <nooga> many numbers and werid information, i guess i was waching some films abt "hackers"
13:51:46 <fizzie> Pascal was rather popular. I don't think I ever used it, but I think we had a "programming course" with it when I was at the school-where-people-go-when-they're-uh-13-to-16.
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13:56:31 <nooga> i'm shocked by jix's skills ;p
13:57:05 <nooga> he's 14 and he's writing interpreters in haskell and he knows lambda calculus and everything!!!!!!
13:59:07 <calamari> really sad to be corrupted at such a young age
14:00:21 <nooga> jix, come on, say something!
14:04:42 <nooga> where'd you learn haskell huh!?
14:04:57 <jix> http://www.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~ralf/teaching/Hskurs_toc.html
14:05:03 <jix> using that webpage
14:06:09 <jix> but i skipped some chapters
14:06:16 <nooga> are you learning in school o sitting home whole day?
14:06:36 <jix> well i'm at school in the morning and at home in the afternoon
14:07:09 <nooga> when do you have time to hack?
14:07:17 <nooga> and when did u started?
14:07:24 <jix> i started at grade 4
14:07:50 <jix> using RealBasic (some object orientated basic dialect for mac os)
14:09:18 <nooga> u must be fuc*ing genious
14:09:52 <nooga> what guitar do u have? :D
14:10:14 <jix> my e guitar is a very cheap and crappy yamaha one
14:10:39 <jix> and my acoustic guitar is uhmm no idea
14:11:08 <nooga> how long do u play?
14:11:25 <kipple_> hmm. quite a lot of eso-programmers also plays guitar apparently. is there a connection?? :)
14:11:26 <jix> since grade 1... for about 8,5 years
14:12:38 <jix> well i don't practice very often...
14:12:42 <nooga> from where do you get time for your activities?
14:12:58 <nooga> and who are your parents?
14:13:23 <nooga> my parents are upset when im using computer for longer than 4 hours a day
14:13:34 <jix> my parents aren't
14:14:14 <nooga> and tell me that u like sports huh?
14:14:31 <nooga> and u play football in a local team
14:18:49 <jix> i hate football
14:19:00 <jix> and i hate sports
14:19:44 <lament> but i don't like it much :)
14:27:54 <{^Raven^}> kipple_: you might be on to something :/
14:33:57 <calamari> had to use our chat log yesterday because I forgot how the newer bfbasic line numbering scheme worked
14:37:13 <{^Raven^}> it looks promising for GregorRs project
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14:38:11 <{^Raven^}> i've been doing some more thinkig about bfbasic recently
14:40:48 <{^Raven^}> writing unit tests for each of the commands, exxpressions and array handling
14:41:36 * calamari needs to figure out how to enjoy writing tests more
14:42:14 <calamari> java's junit should be good for that
14:43:08 <{^Raven^}> bfdebug is definately going to come in handy
14:44:00 <{^Raven^}> i need to get each of the known bfbasic issues down to the smallest source that displays the problem
14:44:26 <jix> reqwrite it in rubye
14:45:13 <{^Raven^}> jix: I'd rather see a stable release of bfbasic first
14:45:29 <calamari> although bfbasic does need to be rewriten
14:46:14 <jix> ruby has racc, it's a pretty nice parser generator
14:46:30 <calamari> seems like it I were to rewrite c or c++ would be preferred
14:46:44 <jix> why python but not ruby?
14:47:17 <jix> it's like python but has some nice additional features
14:47:27 <jix> and a different syntax
14:47:27 <{^Raven^}> C has the advantage of being uber multi-platform
14:48:10 <jix> yeah but you have to concentrate on many things that arn't really important for the problem you're trying to solve
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14:48:18 <calamari> and then once c2bf is done we can compile it to bf :P
14:48:40 <jix> we could implement it in bfbasic
14:49:06 <jix> yeah of course the current bf basic isn't able to do that
14:50:08 <jix> if you don't want to use ruby i'd vote for python
14:51:16 <calamari> I think my next "python" project would be porting linguine to c
14:51:50 <calamari> right now programs have to be run under python
14:54:57 <{^Raven^}> the results from the logical brainfuck competition would give bfbasic the bitwise logic operators
14:55:34 <calamari> but I'm not sure that I ever implemented them
14:55:50 <calamari> just pseudocode that seemed good
14:56:02 <calamari> I wanted to be able to do it in a constant amount of memory
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15:14:08 <{^Raven^}> what would you change in a rewrite of bfbasic?
15:15:16 <calamari> I'd preferrably like a separate file for each function or command
15:16:25 <calamari> making functions work will be a pain with it
15:16:48 <calamari> would be better to scrap it and use something like bison
15:17:49 <calamari> also, I really wish I didn't have bf code hardcoded in certain places in the main loops of code.. that just feels wrong
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15:18:20 <calamari> I never got to take my compilers class
15:19:09 <{^Raven^}> named functions and procedures should be farly simple to implement
15:19:34 <calamari> java's reflection should make it easy
15:20:38 <calamari> could use it to dynamically load class files based on their fingerprint (say they extend or implement a certain class)
15:21:10 <calamari> adding a new command is as easy as compiling the class file and re-running
15:21:40 <calamari> so there wouldn't be that awful switch
15:22:04 <{^Raven^}> passing parameters is the hardest, especially if you allow recurson and give local scope to named variables
15:23:16 <{^Raven^}> there will need to be a variable heap
15:23:53 <calamari> also a problem are all thos global variables
15:24:13 <calamari> so yeah, the implementation leaves much to be desired
15:25:22 <calamari> I guess c gets around the function thing by linking with libraries
15:25:49 <calamari> that won't work too well with bfbasic tho, since function calls are expensive
15:27:31 <{^Raven^}> all the changes are in the bfbasic CVS tree
15:28:09 <calamari> cool, I'll have to see how you did that
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15:50:24 <GregorR-L> Good day to you, my good friends, upon this fine Thursday afternoon (or whatever time it is where you are).
15:52:34 <GregorR-L> Alas, there is no conversation here :P
15:59:20 <GregorR-L> And it led to BFBASIC ... so I could have manipulated it into a conversation about C2BF XP
15:59:54 <kipple_> still confuses me sometimes though
16:00:21 <GregorR-L> Well, just remember that Windows XP is named after the smiley of somebody who uses Windows XP.
16:00:24 <kipple_> does look like your writing C2BF for windowsXP, and you don't want that do you ;)
16:01:30 <kipple_> I don't smile like that ;)
16:02:14 <GregorR-L> Today I'll write a page on C2BF relocatable object files.
16:02:34 <GregorR-L> main: *BF CODE*(symbol reference)<constant value>
16:04:47 <kipple_> hopefully someone who understands what you're talking about will read the logs... XP
16:07:24 <GregorR-L> When I write a page on it, it'll make more sense :P
16:20:59 <GregorR-L> What's a symbol that has no meaning in C or BF ...
16:21:27 <GregorR-L> (And furthermore, is an error in C)
16:21:51 <GregorR-L> # ... after preprocessing, # is an error, right?
23:18:39 <{^Raven^}> GregorR-L: It's an interesting and worthwhile project
23:19:06 <GregorR-L> I don't know if I agree that it's worthwhile :P
23:19:32 <{^Raven^}> GregorR-L: Have you seen the SmallC compiler on sourceforge? it's a retargetable C compiler for 8-bit platforms
23:20:01 <GregorR-L> I think BF is just too different from any real architecture to base this on a normal compiler.
23:20:59 <{^Raven^}> there ws talk a few years back to retargeting an existing compiler to bfasm
23:21:19 <GregorR-L> calamari recommended against targetting BFASM :)
23:21:41 <GregorR-L> I'm trying directly C->BF, no middle state.
23:21:49 <GregorR-L> I think it's best that way, or I'm insane.
23:21:55 <{^Raven^}> i reckon that's going to be the best way
23:22:49 <{^Raven^}> all this compiler talk is making me want to play with bfbasic again
23:23:08 <GregorR-L> I need to get my AST tree generator done so you can play with C2BF instead 8-D
23:23:32 <GregorR-L> By writing basic operator action (the worlds most fun thing to do :P)
23:24:57 <{^Raven^}> bfgolf has made a few good advances
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00:07:35 <calamari> GregorR: you can save yourself a lot of time by copying the algorithms from bfbasic
00:08:28 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
00:08:50 <calamari> or you can have your irc client die and read the logs ;)
00:10:03 <{^Raven^}> There are a lot of techniques in bfbasic that should be useful
00:13:45 <calamari> I think I improved the array algorithms in the CVS version
00:15:18 <calamari> can't seem to access the cvs from school tho
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00:22:08 <calamari> another problem is that we are parsing inside the statement code
00:22:57 <calamari> hopefully that will change to everything being parsed beforehand and dealing with patterns
00:23:48 <calamari> if you want to kill {^Raven^} you can tell nickserv
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00:27:41 <NoneGiven> The SELECT structure was simple once i twigged the parser
00:28:18 <NoneGiven> it took me ages to figure out how to parse FOR .. STEP
00:31:13 <NoneGiven> calamari: Much of BFBASIC is written like an interpreter
00:33:07 <calamari> I wanted the ability to use Basic to do things like BEEP = PRINT CHR$(7);
00:33:19 <calamari> without having to duplicate effort of PRINT or CHR$()
00:34:03 <calamari> so when it sees BEEP it just adds PRINT CHR$(7); and parses that next
00:34:41 <NoneGiven> much of the compiler depends on that behaviour
00:34:59 <calamari> most conditionals.. DO/WHILE, FOR, ELSE
00:36:15 <NoneGiven> there should be a better way, but the current system seems to work very well
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02:15:43 <GregorR-L> I don't know that the array algorithm would be very useful.
02:15:53 <GregorR-L> Arrays are just pointers to buffers ...
02:24:40 <ihope> "So there you have it: a proof that that statement is indeed improvably true."
02:25:19 <GregorR-L> Please prove that that statement is true.
02:26:56 <ihope> Suppose the statement is false. End scope. Suppose the statement is true. End scope.
02:27:58 <ihope> Suppose we have the axiom "This statement is true." with no production rules. We have just proven it.
02:31:55 <ihope> Oops, I scratched some... stuff off this sticker thingy.
02:32:12 <ihope> Now I have a 16 GHz laptop because I scratched off the decimal point.
02:34:19 <ihope> It'll be very slow in a while.
02:34:32 <ihope> You know... processors slow down after a while.
02:34:56 <ihope> People have to keep changing the spec so a processor will always measure the same.
02:36:03 <ihope> Either that, or game programmers slowly start making games that work slower and slower.
02:36:18 <GregorR-L> Uh oh, he's on to the real secret!
02:36:32 <ihope> In that case, we could just fire them all and hire some new---
02:36:39 <ihope> Oops. I said too much.
02:36:52 <ihope> I DIDN'T MEAN TO UNDERMINE THE HARDWARE INDUSTRY, HONEST!
02:37:14 <GregorR-L> I need a subversion repository for C2BF :P
02:37:45 <ihope> Well, I have to go.
02:37:56 <ihope> 9:37. Bedtime's at 9:00...
02:37:57 <GregorR-L> Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
02:38:12 <ihope> ...So why the rush? I have about 11 hours to go!
02:39:03 * ihope adds more dots to that ellipsis
02:39:26 <ihope> Let's start over, in a while...
02:40:12 <ihope> "By" ++ repeat 'e' ++ "!"
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14:40:02 <nooga> jix, did u use Parsec for writing Rhotor interpreter?
14:43:01 <jix> i wrote the parser myself
14:48:35 <nooga> haskell seems very nice for writing interpreters
14:51:00 <nooga> why didn't u used Parsec?
14:52:23 <jix> because my syntax is complex and it would have taken more time to learn all the parsec syntax
14:54:05 <nooga> jix, can i tell u something?
14:55:50 <jix> well it is complex enough to make it easier to implement a custom parser than compiling and learning parsec
14:56:21 <jix> no it isn't complex enough but it has the right degree of complexity if it would be a lot more complex i'd have taken parsec
14:56:25 <jix> nooga: yes
14:57:10 <nooga> sure, haskell is better for parsing than C+yacc as is
14:57:22 <jix> ruby+racc is very nice too
14:57:30 <jix> but you don't want to do string handling at all in c
14:57:57 <nooga> jix: when i talk with you i feel like i was talking with HAL
15:00:43 <nooga> you know, no emotes, no stupid jokes, just pure, exact sentences
15:01:43 -!- ihope has joined.
15:02:26 <ihope> I'm writing a spec for another new language, Minks.
15:05:43 <nooga> jix: i didn't intend to offend you
15:06:24 <jix> nooga: you didn't
15:06:31 <jix> i was just afk
15:06:34 <ihope> Hmm. /me quits the posting on the comment thingies and gets to work
15:07:17 <ihope> Problem: I can't decide whether this is a joke language or not.
15:07:49 <ihope> Oh, right. I was looking up the Turing-completeness proof for Minsky machines...
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15:33:18 <kipple> ihope: so what's this Minks language about?
15:34:45 <ihope> A.k.a. register machines, a.k.a. program machines...
15:35:27 <ihope> Eh, I'll finish it later
15:43:47 <jix> one register?
15:54:51 * nooga loves ruby & haskell
16:17:01 <ihope> Is it just me, or is Minks not showing up on the Recent Changes?
16:18:34 <kipple> huh? in the wiki you mean?
16:18:58 <kipple> it doesn't show, but there is no Minks article either
16:19:02 <jix> ihope: why two?
16:19:05 <jix> why not one
16:19:27 <jix> if you use multiplication division instead of addition and subtraction
16:19:52 <ihope> But maybe addition and subtraction is harder to use.
16:20:15 <ihope> Less obvious, anyway.
16:20:28 <jix> multiplication and division using one register is like addition and subtraction on as many registers as you want
16:21:07 <kipple> have you entered a Minks article in the wiki? I can't find it...
16:21:31 <ihope> Apparently I clicked the wrong button, and it previewed itstead of saving.
16:26:30 <ihope> Now thw spec's up.
16:34:54 <ihope> "Rough-coated, dough-faced, thoughtful ploughman John Gough strode through the streets of Scarborough; after falling into a slough on Coughlin road near the lough (dry due to drought), he coughed and hiccoughed, then checked his horse's houghs and washed up in a trough!"
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16:43:46 <SimonRC> There once was a lady from Slough / Who caught a terrible cough / She wasn't to know / It would last until now / So let's hope that she will pull through.
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16:51:30 <nooga> ah, i was typing "haskell" when windiw appeared
16:55:10 <nooga> how's your language?
16:56:16 <ihope> Um, http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Minks
16:59:24 <jix> ihope: not turing complete
16:59:41 <jix> didn't read one line in the spec
16:59:53 <nooga> jix: you can assess turing completenes by just starring at the doc?
17:00:07 <jix> i just saw the list of commands
17:00:17 <jix> and there were no looping or jumping commands
17:00:25 <nooga> youre chuck norris or something
17:05:44 -!- NoneGiven has changed nick to {^Raven^}.
17:08:59 <nooga> INP: takes input and puts it in the REGISTER.
17:08:59 <nooga> inp: takes input and puts it in the REGISTER.
17:11:33 <jix> i think it isn't
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18:56:36 <nooga> hi GregorR and his pet
18:58:46 <GregorR> My building finally got the network working again.
18:59:45 <nooga> dialup, i heard that dialup in US is good way to connect
18:59:59 <nooga> here in Poland we've all have cable
19:00:15 <nooga> bcs dialup is horribly EXPENSIVE
19:03:49 <GregorR> Still working on this damn AST.
19:03:55 <GregorR> It's such a mechanical process >_<
19:04:14 <GregorR> Oh, and I'm up to 10 pages on c2bf.pdf.
19:07:25 <GregorR> Then once the AST is done, I'll generate the generator with unimplemented stubs, and start filling it in to support one basic program. Then I'll have a proof of concept.
19:07:55 <nooga> damn.... got to go
19:08:12 -!- nooga has quit.
19:44:55 <ihope> So what's the verdict? Turing-complete?
19:45:14 <ihope> (And thanks for correcting that mistake.)
20:08:28 <ihope> New color-coding for languages. Spanish is red, French is blue, German is brown, Italian is green, and English is black.
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22:24:27 <fizzie> Syntax-highlighted befunge is my favourite art form.
22:25:31 <fizzie> I am only aware of two pieces of it, though.
22:28:58 <fizzie> (There's mooz's infamous quicksort at http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/qsort.html and my Turing machine interpreter at http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.html - any other?)
22:32:08 <ihope> I want a language that consists entirely of syntax highlighting.
22:32:48 <fizzie> Those pieces of syntax-highlighted befunge do look a bit like Piet code.
22:43:14 <ihope> Piet... Piet... wasn't there some guy named Piet once>
22:51:27 <ihope> I wonder what those guys were thinking when they wrote "you have no chance to survive make your time"...
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01:42:06 <kipple> what's this? a GregorBot to take care of IRC spamming while the real GregorR works on c2bf?
01:50:26 <kipple> any opinions on what would be a good name for my esoteric BASIC language? Current candidates are SlowBASIC and Occult Basic
01:54:35 <calamari> Occult Basic... is it secretive?
01:55:17 <kipple> occult is the opposite of visual.
01:55:32 <calamari> I suppose occult is roughly esoteric :)
01:56:26 <calamari> so yeah.. Occult Basic sounds good :)
01:57:13 * calamari notes that another layer of complexity has now been heaped upon the crypto project
01:58:09 <calamari> I decided that it wasn't cool to send the passwords in the clear across IRC.. so now I also need to implement a public-key system to securely transport the hash
02:00:36 <kipple> yeah, that might have been a small security issue...
02:00:52 <kipple> (though I have no idea what this crypto project is about)
02:01:25 <calamari> well, its usefulness decreases each time I add onto it :)
02:02:15 <calamari> EsoBot doesn't send private messages to anyone except the person that ran the program
02:02:40 <calamari> but, certain multiplayer games require secret information (what cards you have, for example)
02:03:13 <calamari> so, the challenge is to be able to play these games inside the channel
02:04:40 <calamari> right now, it'll work something like: 1) use a local program to get a hash (probably an esolang), 2) securely transfer the hash to the game using public-key crypto, 3) the game sends hash-encoded data to the channel (along with who its for) 4) decrypt locally
02:05:11 <calamari> I was hoping to use esobot for everything, but its just not secure that way
02:05:49 <calamari> and yes, of course its overboard :) hehe
02:19:25 <GregorR> I forgot to log out RoboGregorR.
02:19:29 <GregorR> But that's me on the robotics lab computer.
02:21:04 <kipple> your multiple personality disorder seems to be multiplying... ;)
02:21:45 <kipple> so, what's the deal? do each hat come with a different personality?
02:21:45 <GregorR> BTW, does anybody know what this means in C:
02:21:54 <GregorR> struct { int a : (expression); }
02:22:27 <GregorR> RoboGregorR = robotics lab
02:48:05 <fizzie> Means the integer "a" is exactly (expression) bits wide.
02:48:33 <fizzie> Or, more exactly, you are to use it as if it were (expression) bits wide.
02:49:11 <fizzie> A single bit-field in a struct does not make sense, but if you have many of them, the compiler can pack them to a single byte/word/dword/qword/whatever-unit-it-prefers.
02:50:44 <fizzie> Arguably "struct { int flag1 : 1, flag2 : 1, flag3 : 1 } ... if(foo.flag1) { foo.flag2 = 1; foo.flag3 = 0; }" is cleaner-looking than "#define FLAG1 0x01 #define FLAG2 0x02 #define FLAG3 0x04 struct { int flags; } ... if(foo.flags & FLAG1) { foo.flags |= FLAG2; foo.flags &= ~FLAG3; }"
02:51:25 <fizzie> Obviously there are drawbacks too. You can't really have treat bitfields as groups and have bitmasks with multiple set bits.
02:52:49 <GregorR> That's not going to be supported in C2BF for a LONG time ^_^
03:04:12 <GregorR> Actually, ever, since we don't even know the bitwidth of a cell *shrugs*
03:05:55 <calamari> btw, what prompted the insane thought of c2bf? :)
03:06:34 <GregorR> A few days ago is not the first time it's been brought up on c2bf.
03:06:49 <calamari> nope.. I brought it up a long time ago myself
03:06:57 <calamari> I meant for you to start working on it :)
03:07:01 <GregorR> And I know it's been brought up a few times between then too ;)
03:07:11 <GregorR> Well, I'm doing a ridiculously easy compilers class right now.
03:07:19 <GregorR> So, to keep my brain from melting, I'll do a side project.
03:07:38 <GregorR> Not a pseudocompiler in a crappy programming language for an even crappier programming language written with a crappy compiler-compiler.
03:09:39 <GregorR> OMG, LL(1) compilers rawx0r, they're so awesome I need a program to write them for me even though they're simple, roflcopter!
03:10:57 <calamari> GregorR: sounds like you're enjoying class ;)
03:11:18 <calamari> I'll be taking that class next semester
03:11:30 * kipple ponders what the guy who came up with the word roflcopter had been smoking
03:11:43 <calamari> so then maybe I'll get some bfbasic work done in a similar manner :)
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03:50:36 <GregorR> By the way, did the BASIC version of BFBASIC ever compile under BFBASIC?
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05:21:09 <calamari> I've reduced XTEA to four lines of Linguine :)
05:22:42 <GregorR> My last name is now Gichards.
05:22:45 <GregorR> That's a pretty awful last name.
05:23:07 <GregorR> Or maybe my last name is Gregory ^_^
05:23:27 <GregorR> Anyway, an ultimate goal of C2BF is to compile C2BF with C2BF :)
05:23:41 <GregorR> To that end, each component is going to be pipe-style except for the wrapper.
05:24:19 <calamari> to make your life possiobly easier, you might consider implementing a subset of c
05:24:38 <calamari> then, using that subset, build a more complete c
05:24:55 <GregorR> That's precisely what I'm doing.
05:25:06 <GregorR> The AST is set up in such a way that certain chunks could be implemented before others.
05:25:28 <calamari> have you seen the ioccc c compiler?
05:25:59 <calamari> http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/otcc/
05:26:31 <calamari> although the compiler is hard to understand.. it's probably a good subset to work with
05:27:44 <GregorR> Well, I'm starting with a much, much, MUCH smaller subset ;)
05:28:02 <GregorR> The first thing I want to try is:
05:28:11 <GregorR> int main() { asm("{some BF code}"); }
05:28:23 <calamari> I can think of a subset that directly compiles to bf :P
05:28:57 <GregorR> I don't think you could do a subset of C with no function support ...
05:29:06 <GregorR> It wouldn't be a proper subset.
05:29:46 <calamari> are you using a stack for args?
05:30:15 <calamari> do you have my 2-cell array routines?
05:30:31 <GregorR> I've implemented nothing BF-wise yet.
05:30:34 <calamari> the only other array routines I've seen are 3-cell
05:30:37 <GregorR> I'm STILL working on the bloody AST.
05:30:57 <GregorR> Oh, well, arrays in C are too different from traditional arrays to use quite any given routine ...
05:31:18 <GregorR> Because it is absolutely imperative that they be implemented as a pointer.
05:31:32 <GregorR> But the pointer math has to work as pointer math.
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05:31:54 <calamari> hmm actually, my arrays wouldn't be suited
05:31:56 <GregorR> So to jump through it, you have to find the base location, do some math on that, and then jump to the specified location.
05:32:24 <calamari> jumping to a specified location in memory isn't trivial with bf
05:32:41 <GregorR> It is when you have a quick way to get to 0 :)
05:33:03 <GregorR> And yes, I do realize that that's disgusting in its own right ;)
05:33:15 <calamari> omg.. you are going to store bits
05:33:44 <calamari> because you will need to index into the array
05:34:10 <GregorR> {stack^4} {heap^4} {stack-top} {walk^5} {carry^5}
05:34:11 <calamari> and the index will need to be >255
05:34:19 <GregorR> Yeah, there's that problem.
05:34:36 <calamari> my array routine is able to wall a 255 element array
05:34:41 <GregorR> There are routines for multi-cell math.
05:34:53 <calamari> so you will need to define the size of a pointer
05:35:08 <GregorR> That's an absolute requirement for C.
05:35:32 <calamari> err, I suppose not for large programs
05:36:05 <GregorR> It could be 16-bit, but why? :)
05:36:30 <calamari> unmless your compiler was good at keeping the numbers small
05:36:47 <calamari> even [-] on a 32-bit number would be a nightmare, much less walking an array
05:36:48 <GregorR> Well, it always builds up from 0.
05:37:11 <GregorR> [-] on a 32-bit number: [-]>[-]>[-]>[-]
05:37:46 <GregorR> I know what you mean though ;)
05:37:47 <calamari> but you might as well consider it all in one cell
05:38:30 <calamari> you could have routines that contain a huge amount of >'s
05:38:43 <calamari> but that would mean huge code bloat
05:39:07 <GregorR> Umm, I don't quite understand your suggestion ...
05:39:14 <GregorR> A chunk of code doesn't know where it is in the stack ..
05:40:12 <calamari> the other way to go with this is using a "nice" bf interpreter
05:40:25 <calamari> so that it handles 32-bit cells
05:40:52 <GregorR> Yukk ... being interpreter-specific = bad.
05:41:08 <GregorR> Though I could also compile to one-cell stuff then say "If you want it to be 32-bit, you'll need a 32-bit interp"
05:41:09 <calamari> sounds like you have a plan :)
05:41:33 <calamari> well.. what about a compiler from 32-bit cells to 8-bit
05:42:08 <GregorR> That's very interesting ...
05:42:21 <calamari> there are already interpreters that do that thing for 16->8
05:42:34 <GregorR> Ironically, that would probably be easier than doing the 32-bit math in the first step ...
05:42:59 <calamari> because it's already been done for you ;)
05:43:14 <calamari> my array routines work fine with arbitrary cell size
05:43:30 <GregorR> No, I don't think it would be acceptable to say "you have to run it through this other BF program"
05:43:39 <GregorR> It would have to be a program that turns one-cell code into two-cell code.
05:43:55 <calamari> oh, you wouldn't have to do that
05:44:16 <calamari> the part where your program would exit, it instead just runs the 32->8
05:44:27 <calamari> so it's two step but all in the compiler
05:44:36 <GregorR> Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
05:44:47 <GregorR> But the 16->8 program I thought was just a BF interp in BF ...
05:45:07 <calamari> yeah, but that's not what is wanted
05:45:43 <calamari> I think we're saying the same thing :)
05:45:50 <GregorR> Yes, I'm certain we are ;)
05:46:03 <GregorR> Basically, I need a list of transformations to turn 1-cell math into 2-cell, 4-cell, etc, math.
05:46:18 <GregorR> Or I could run it through 1->2 twice :)
05:46:49 <calamari> well, probably nest to just hardcode one-cell (32)->to 4-8
05:47:09 <calamari> the others aren't really needed, are they?
05:47:16 <calamari> or would it be handy for shorts
05:47:19 <GregorR> It would be nice to have different levels supported.
05:47:57 <GregorR> It'll slightly break the spec for max(unsigned char) != 255 ...
05:48:07 <GregorR> But I don't think it's such a significant issue that I'm worried.
05:48:16 <calamari> are you relying on cell wrapping?
05:48:24 <GregorR> I don't see how I couldn't.
05:48:31 <GregorR> Given that I don't know how big the cells will be.
05:48:32 <calamari> because that's implementation dependent as well
05:48:42 <GregorR> But the standard is wrapping.
05:48:43 <calamari> well, you can assume cells are 8-bit
05:49:18 <GregorR> How many non-wrapping interps are there...?
05:50:04 <calamari> I'm pretty sure everything can be done and stay non-wrapping
05:50:13 <GregorR> Woah, WTF, bf-golf requires non-wrapping?!?!?!?
05:50:22 <GregorR> They go out of their way to make it difficult, don't they XD
05:50:27 <GregorR> I'm sure everything can be done with non-wrapping.
05:50:34 <GregorR> But I'm also sure that it would be far more inefficient.
05:51:08 <calamari> of coourse this 32->8 thing is inefficient as well
05:51:26 <GregorR> But sort of more unavoidable ..
05:51:42 <calamari> I'd tend to agree with wrapping tho
05:51:59 <GregorR> Err, as in, you'd agree that wrapping is OK/
05:52:03 <calamari> but I've always been partial to it :)
05:52:17 <GregorR> (Incidentally, EgoBF does support non-wrapping as an option, of course :) )
05:52:20 <calamari> since thats how asm does things
05:53:21 <calamari> that means no one will try to use c2bf to win at bfgolf hehe
05:54:06 <GregorR> They would indeed lose horribly.
05:54:14 <GregorR> Unless they were the only entry ^_^
05:54:46 <GregorR> Darn, there's no 8->16 on "BF algorithms" :P
05:55:02 <calamari> well, I have > ... it's >>>> ;)
05:55:47 <calamari> it might turn out to need to be more tho, depending on if I need temp cells
05:56:06 <GregorR> And can we call it 1->2, 1->4, etc?
05:56:16 <GregorR> Since we don't actually know that one cell is eight bits :P
05:56:45 <GregorR> Which I'm working on right now.
05:57:13 <calamari> you should work on the important parts
05:58:39 <GregorR> So, can you give me access to the brainfuck.sf.net CVS repo? ^_^
05:58:48 <GregorR> That is, is that within your power?
05:59:11 <calamari> you should already be able to read it
05:59:11 <GregorR> Yeah, so I could put C2BF there.
05:59:20 <GregorR> Of course I can read it :P
05:59:22 <calamari> let me see if I'm on that project, I think I am
05:59:43 <GregorR> Umm, didn't you post bfbasic there ...?
06:00:05 <calamari> there are different admin levels
06:00:13 <calamari> you can be a developer .. or an admin
06:00:43 <GregorR> Err, I just need the lowest level that'll let me post to CVS - probably "developer" :)
06:00:44 <calamari> okay cool, I can make you a develeoper
06:00:48 <GregorR> I just want somewhere to put this ;)
06:01:06 <GregorR> You may want to tell the project lead why you're doing this :P
06:01:46 <GregorR> So long as it's somebody I know :P
06:03:18 <calamari> be sure to make a new dir for it
06:04:23 <calamari> :) why is it that I forget that you know all this crap already
06:05:00 <GregorR> I do have several OSS projects on SF :)
06:07:02 <calamari> btw, do you knwo how to make my delete key function as a delete key in nano (rather than backspace)?
06:07:59 <GregorR> Yeah, use a REAL editor!!!
06:09:20 <GregorR> As soon as I'm done with the AST, I'll post it.
06:09:34 <GregorR> Only 16 nonterminals left.
06:09:34 <calamari> some habits die hard.. editing is my weak point
06:09:50 <calamari> I've used pine/pico as long as I've been online
06:10:13 <calamari> no.. for writing e-mail and shell scripts
06:10:25 <GregorR> In that case, I have no qualm.
06:10:31 <GregorR> I actually like pico/nano.
06:10:43 <GregorR> People who use them for programming are missing out on a lot :)
06:10:51 <GregorR> People who don't are using an easy-to-use editor :)
06:10:52 <calamari> I use gedit for programming usually
06:11:08 <calamari> I've tried kate but its very slow on this machine
06:12:01 <calamari> my favorite editor was Textpad
06:12:29 <GregorR> http://armedbear-j.sf.net/
06:12:44 <GregorR> It's written in Java ... but it's SUCH an excellent editor :'(
06:13:22 <GregorR> Well, moreover it doesn't work under SableVM :( :( :(
06:14:14 <GregorR> I wasn't referring to editing Java - just as a programmer's editor in general.
06:14:20 <GregorR> I write almost no Java code :P
06:14:37 <calamari> you have a secret love for Java
06:15:02 <calamari> everyone does.. just can't admit it ;)
06:15:17 <GregorR> If it wasn't so proprietary, I wouldn't mind it too much.
06:15:21 <GregorR> It's nice to have a wimpmode C++.
06:15:38 <GregorR> But I try to avoid proprietary software at all costs.
06:15:43 <calamari> hopefully when sun finally dies they'll do the honorable thing
06:15:56 <GregorR> If they do, I'll start writing much more java XD
06:16:39 <calamari> argh.. can't seem to run java apps
06:17:07 <calamari> # An unexpected error has been detected by HotSpot Virtual Machine:
06:17:08 <calamari> # SIGSEGV (0xb) at pc=0xb793528e, pid=7996, tid=3084904672
06:17:08 <calamari> # Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (1.5.0-b64 mixed mode)
06:17:42 <calamari> I think I broke it a while back trying to mix sun java and one of the free javas
06:18:23 <GregorR> ARGH - I've had this song stuck in my head for well over a week now >_<
06:18:34 <GregorR> I WILL NOT SING YOU AGAIN!
06:18:54 <GregorR> I'll take "We'll Meet Again," thank you very much ;)
06:20:18 <calamari> I've come to dislike music with vocals
06:20:34 <GregorR> I listen to almost no music with vocals.
06:20:37 <GregorR> But of the other variety ;)
06:21:13 <GregorR> As opposed to sequenced :)
06:21:46 <calamari> I was looking for something to play quake to
06:22:11 <GregorR> We live in different universes, you and I ;)
06:22:49 <calamari> although I'm probably one of very few mormons who listens to trance :)
06:24:08 <calamari> in the car it has to be classical tho.. or silence.. that's good too
06:24:25 <GregorR> I listen to a lot of silence ;)
06:24:42 <GregorR> I once had an MP3 player, but I stopped using it, because I'm more comfortable with silence.
06:25:59 <GregorR> I wonder what OSI is going to do when GPLv3 comes out ...
06:25:59 <calamari> if I had an mp3 player I'd probably try to put linux on it
06:26:00 <calamari> and then I'd never get any work done :(
06:26:15 <GregorR> The Open Source Institute.
06:26:22 <GregorR> Or some equally ridiculous name.
06:26:25 <GregorR> Whatever OSI stands for :P
06:26:59 <GregorR> Maybe Free Software and Open Source won't be compatible anymore ...... OSI is too busy giving rights to everybody to restrict the right to restrict rights :P
06:28:32 <GregorR> Oh, it's Open Source /Initiative/.
06:31:39 <GregorR> Hmm, worse yet, GPLv3 won't even be DFSG-free.
06:31:49 <GregorR> I see a big schism coming, and I don't like the implications.
06:33:05 <calamari> well, everything GPL is already on board
06:33:15 <GregorR> Yes, everyTHING GPL, but not everyONE.
06:33:33 <GregorR> I don't want to see a Debian gplv3 section >_<
06:34:00 <calamari> ubuntu is a little more practical .. I think I'm okay :)
06:34:22 <GregorR> Yeah, Ubuntu will probably accept v3 programs, but keep in mind that their source is Debian.
06:34:32 <GregorR> If Debian outright rejects v3 or puts it in non-free, there'll be a problem.
06:34:38 <calamari> yeah, but they have their own repos
06:35:16 <calamari> hmm, I wonmder if ubuntu would go outside Debian to get packages
06:36:14 <calamari> I think if debian did that then people would start making packages for ubuntu and not debian.. then all would be ok
06:36:15 <GregorR> Well, the problem is, if I know the Debian people, they would put all v3 in non-free along with actually non-free stuff. So then there would be a huge headache of sifting through non-free for the things that are actually free, but don't follow some ridiculously strict guidelines.
06:36:55 <GregorR> Another sinful pleasure ;)
06:37:17 <GregorR> Simply put, I am yet to find a distro that matches Mandriva in ease of installation or configurability.
06:38:31 <calamari> the only reason I chose Ubuntu is that it correctly identified and worked will all my hardware
06:39:03 <calamari> also, I hadn't seen a gnome distro before, and I like GNome
06:39:25 <GregorR> Yeah, Mandriva is sort of KDE-biased, but does come with Gnome - I don't know how well it works though.
06:40:10 <calamari> I can run most KDE apps fine.. I use K3b for burning
06:40:39 <GregorR> I meant the desktop itself, not just apps thereof.
06:42:46 <GregorR> Yay, 14 nonterminals left ;)
06:43:01 <calamari> whats a nonterminal.. compiler class lingo?
06:43:41 <GregorR> Err, hmm. Where did I use it before compilers ...
06:44:05 <GregorR> But we did grammars in an earlier class, too.
06:44:26 <calamari> I did some grammar stuff last semester
06:44:45 <GregorR> That would be a simple grammar with the nonterminal N, and terminals a, b, and c.
06:44:59 <GregorR> So in this compiler's parser, I have a bunch of nonterminals. I have 14 left to make a tree out of.
06:45:27 <calamari> I unfortunately failed most of that part of the course
06:45:40 <GregorR> You'll have some problems in your compilers class ;)
06:47:03 <calamari> most of the problem was being in and out of the hospital with my wife
06:47:43 <calamari> I think I understand the basics of it ok, just missed out on the yummy details
06:47:47 <GregorR> If you still have the book, I'd do a quick review of grammars.
06:47:56 <GregorR> Or if you have access to the internet :P
06:48:27 <GregorR> Do you know what language you have to implement the compiler in.
06:49:01 <calamari> or at least a subset of small c
06:49:11 <GregorR> Err, the compiler itself and the language it will support?
06:49:36 <calamari> compiler:c, language supported: small c
06:50:45 <GregorR> The compiler is in Java, and supports a subset of Java.
06:50:59 <GregorR> Hence my recent upsurge in complaints about Java :)
06:51:18 <GregorR> Worse yet, we're using JavaCC, which is a top-down compiler compiler, so it's ridiculous that it even exists *sigh*
06:52:30 <GregorR> Bottom-up is more powerful, supports both left and right recursion, etc.
06:52:31 <calamari> afaik LALR supports more grammars
06:52:54 <GregorR> Mainly because it supports both left- and right- recursion.
06:52:57 <GregorR> So you can have things like:
06:53:24 <GregorR> Whereas with LL parsers, you can only have the second form, and anything in the first form has to be transformed.
06:54:38 <calamari> in bfbasic I'm using infix -> RPN translation
06:55:40 <GregorR> Technically you could do that either way, but, if you wrote the parser from scratch, it's LL :)
06:55:48 <GregorR> NOBODY writes LALR parsers from scratch.
06:55:52 <GregorR> It's doable, but not really :P
06:56:37 <calamari> basic doesn't require as compilcated a parser really
06:57:07 <GregorR> It's all pretty much COMMAND PARAMETER PARAMETER ..., no? :)
06:57:35 <GregorR> Does BFBASIC require 'LET'?
06:58:08 <calamari> even early versions had that feature)
06:59:05 <calamari> if it doesn't understand the keyword, it assumes its a var, then sees if there is an equal sign
07:01:48 <GregorR> Done with ... the 1->4 conversion? ^_^ :P
07:03:43 <calamari> haven't even started on that yet
07:06:48 <GregorR> I'll just go ahead and write the 1->4 conversions :P
07:06:53 <GregorR> They'll take six cells per cell.
07:07:16 <GregorR> if (x == 0) { code }" from the BF algos page :)
07:09:47 <calamari> firefox will probably stop crashing now too, I bet
07:11:56 <calamari> yeah that'll probably do it.. so 1->4(6) hehe
07:12:34 <calamari> I haven't decide how to handle , and . yet
07:12:45 <GregorR> + -> >>>+[>+>+<<-]>[<+>-]+>[<->[-]]<[-<<+[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>-]+>[<->[-]]<[-<<<+[>>>+>+<<<<-]>>>[<<<+>-]+>[<->[-]]<[-<<<<+>>>>]]]<<<<
07:13:11 <GregorR> My thought is just output the least significant cell.
07:13:19 <GregorR> That'll work great for C2BF anyway.
07:13:47 <calamari> are your temps at the beginning or the end
07:14:24 <GregorR> It's more efficient that way, since my least significant cell is also at the end.
07:14:32 <GregorR> Though what I should do is reverse the whole thing ...
07:14:50 <GregorR> Bloody hell. How dare you point out my efficiencly flaws ;)
07:18:29 <GregorR> + -> +[<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>+[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>+[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>>+]]]
07:18:41 <GregorR> (Now, the whole program has to be prefaced with >>, btw)
07:20:21 <GregorR> + -> +[<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>+[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>+[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>>+]]]>
07:21:59 <GregorR> - -> [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>>-<<<<]>>>-<<<]>>-<<]>-
07:22:30 <GregorR> Now, for the hardest part :P
07:22:57 <GregorR> No, I float on the least significant cell.
07:23:01 <GregorR> And the temps are left of it.
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07:23:22 <GregorR> However, [ and ] are making it look like I'll ultimately need three temps :'(
07:24:01 <GregorR> calamari and I are having a discussion :P
07:24:18 <GregorR> Trying to make an algorithm to turn any BF program into a BF program utilizing four cell cells.
07:24:23 <GregorR> Err ... that phrase made no sense.
07:24:41 <calamari> nooga: part of his c2bf compiler
07:25:04 <calamari> so that he can assume that cells are 32-bits wide and translate that to 8-bit bf
07:25:25 <GregorR> Damn, I really do think I'll need three temps for [ and ].
07:25:49 <calamari> can you re-use one of the temps?
07:25:58 <calamari> one of em right now is just to be a 0 value
07:26:37 <GregorR> The problem is, I need somewhere to and them into, and the and algorithm uses two temps.
07:28:15 <calamari> hrm, my brain is slow right now.. of course you have to and them
07:28:41 <calamari> since you only really care if any of the left ones are 0
07:29:51 <calamari> well, you don't really care about which ones are which.. if any aren't zero, its done
07:30:14 <GregorR> Hmmmmmmmmm ........ I'm thinking maybe I can do this with two .......
07:30:29 <calamari> trying to see if [>] can be used
07:30:47 <calamari> remember that you have temps on both sides
07:31:18 <GregorR> You'd have to know where you just ended up.
07:31:36 <calamari> well what I mean is 0 0 x x x x 0 0
07:31:51 <calamari> so you have 4 temps to work with in the OR
07:32:59 <GregorR> Hmm, I could use that to reduce the number of temps I use in + ... but it would probably be even worse to jump to either end :P
07:33:17 <GregorR> That does help, but I think I figured a way to do it without ;)
07:35:32 <calamari> that's good, because you might have a problem with [[[[
07:35:32 <calamari> so you might only really have 0 0 x x x x 0
07:37:24 <GregorR> [ -> [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]<[[-]>>>[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]<[[-]>>>>[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]<[[-]>>>>>[<<<<+<+>>>>>-]<<<<[>>>>+<<<<-]<[[-]>+<]]]][->
07:37:27 <GregorR> ] -> [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]<[[-]>>>[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]<[[-]>>>>[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]<[[-]>>>>>[<<<<+<+>>>>>-]<<<<[>>>>+<<<<-]<[[-]>+<]]]]]->
07:39:49 <calamari> or however the >>'s are for that
07:40:54 <GregorR> I'd need a third temp to store the value ^_^
07:41:22 <GregorR> So the question is: Have a more efficient [] at the cost of less space efficiency?
07:43:52 <GregorR> Incidentally, by this technique, I could do ANY number of cells with only two temps, so one way to increase space efficiency would be to increase the number of cells ;)
07:45:19 <calamari> use three temps.. and end with OR 0 x x x x 0
07:45:31 <calamari> err two temps between the 4 cells
07:45:44 <calamari> you're just borrowing the extra cell for the calculation
07:46:12 <GregorR> But I also need two cells for + and -
07:46:38 <GregorR> Well, my algo doesn't work ^_^
07:46:40 <calamari> why? isn't it recalculated each time?
07:47:05 <GregorR> Right now I'm just testing + :P
07:47:56 <GregorR> Hmm ... I somehow landed in the wrong place O_O
07:48:08 <GregorR> Used my broken + from before.
07:48:54 * GregorR is confused by that statement.
07:49:17 <calamari> if I do four 255's I don't end up in the same cell I started in
07:50:58 <GregorR> My + and - work fine for me ...........
07:51:58 <GregorR> + -> +[<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>+[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>+[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+<[>-<[-]]>[->>>>+<<<<]]]>
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07:56:28 <GregorR> Naturally, it had nothing to do with the complicated algorithm.
07:56:34 <GregorR> It was simply that I landed on the wrong cell.
07:57:06 <GregorR> [ -> [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]<[[-]>>>[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]<[[-]>>>>[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]<[[-]>>>>>[<<<<+<+>>>>>-]<<<<[>>>>+<<<<-]<'(msc*)(0)(lsc)(2)(3)(msc)'[[-]>+<]]]]>[->
07:57:09 <GregorR> ] -> [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]<[[-]>>>[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]<[[-]>>>>[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]<[[-]>>>>>[<<<<+<+>>>>>-]<<<<[>>>>+<<<<-]<'(msc*)(0)(lsc)(2)(3)(msc)'[[-]>+<]]]]>]->
07:58:08 <GregorR> I left a comment in there :)
07:59:02 <GregorR> ] -> [<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]<[[-]>>>[<<+<+>>>-]<<[>>+<<-]<[[-]>>>>[<<<+<+>>>>-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]<[[-]>>>>>[<<<<+<+>>>>>-]<<<<[>>>>+<<<<-]<'(msc*)(0)(lsc)(2)(3)(msc)'[[-]>+<]]]]>]>
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08:00:05 <calamari> you should document these on the wiki
08:00:34 <GregorR> But step one: make them work ;)
08:00:44 <GregorR> OH CRAP - my [ and ] are ands!!! >_<
08:00:55 <GregorR> That's why it doesn't work :'(
08:01:17 <GregorR> Shoot ... I don't think I can do an or without three cells :P
08:03:17 <GregorR> Errr, three temps, sorry :)
08:04:04 <calamari> calculations [ clear out right 2 temps CODE ] clear out right 2 temps CODE
08:04:25 <GregorR> Yeah, I do have four temps ^_^
08:04:56 <GregorR> Umm ....... I still don't see how that would work.
08:05:06 <calamari> oh right, because you'd need to recalc
08:05:22 <GregorR> However, yes, I can use the right-side temps.
08:05:24 <GregorR> So I'm back down to two :)
08:06:01 <calamari> so you'd only have one temp between them?
08:06:39 <GregorR> Well, for [], I still need three temps :)
08:06:43 <GregorR> I'm just borrowing one from the other side.
08:06:54 <calamari> right, but you'd just borrow two over instead of one over
08:07:11 <GregorR> Yeah, I guess I have infinity temps if I want them.
08:07:39 <GregorR> I don't know if I like the efficiency implications of using those temps though ^_^
08:07:55 <calamari> it's not really that bad on any decent interpreter
08:11:36 <GregorR> + -> +[<+>>>>>+<<<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[>>+[<<+>>>>>+<<<-]<<[>>+<<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[>>>+[<<<+>>>>>+<<-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[>>>>+<<<<]]]>
08:11:55 <GregorR> Oh wait, that's not quite right.
08:12:20 <GregorR> + -> +[<+>>>>>+<<<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>+[<<+>>>>>+<<<-]<<[>>+<<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>>+[<<<+>>>>>+<<-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>>>+<<<<]]]>
08:14:43 <GregorR> - -> [<+>>>>>+<<<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>[<<+>>>>>+<<<-]<<[>>+<<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>>[<<<+>>>>>+<<-]<<<[>>>+<<<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>>>-<<<<]>>>-<<<]>>-<<]>-
08:19:29 <GregorR> [ -> [>>>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<<[>>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<[>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<[>+>>>>>+<<<<<<-]>>>>>>[<<<<<<+>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<<<<[[-]>
08:19:45 <GregorR> ] -> [>>>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<<[>>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<[>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<[>+>>>>>+<<<<<<-]>>>>>>[<<<<<<+>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<<<<]>
08:19:48 <calamari> btw, if you use a trailing +, then you don't have to lead the program with >
08:20:12 <calamari> but I'm sure you don't want to redo again hehe
08:20:44 <calamari> besides it's more efficient this way
08:21:04 <GregorR> If I always used trailing, it would be very, very bad ^_^
08:21:20 <GregorR> For once I don't agree with your logic enough to change it ;)
08:22:16 <GregorR> I just didn't read enough :P
08:22:56 <GregorR> OR -> [>>>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<<[>>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<[>>+>>>>>+<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>[<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<[>+>>>>>+<<<<<<-]>>>>>>[<<<<<<+>>>>>>-]<<<<<[[-]<<<<<+>>>>>]<<<<<
08:23:05 <GregorR> 'Or' is included in both [ and ]
08:23:35 <calamari> oh, I meant you changed from and to or ?
08:23:47 <GregorR> Because it should be or :)
08:24:41 <GregorR> NOBODY CAN DEFEAT MY AMAZING SKILL!
08:25:27 <calamari> a 1->2 version would be cool too
08:25:49 <GregorR> Actually that'd be pretty easy to write after all that.
08:26:29 <calamari> three columns original 1->2 1->4
08:27:12 <GregorR> I hope you don't mind testing these as I paste them through, because I'm not ^_^
08:27:29 <GregorR> + -> +[<+>>>>>+<<<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>+<<]>
08:28:25 <GregorR> - -> [<+>>>>>+<<<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>>>[<<<<<->>>>>[-]]<<<<<[->>-<<]>-
08:28:46 <GregorR> I did those wrong, didn't think before I typed.
08:29:01 <GregorR> I did >>>>> where I should have done >>> (there are only two to skip over now ;) )
08:29:37 <GregorR> + -> +[<+>>>+<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>[<<<->>>[-]]<<<[->>+<<]>
08:29:41 <calamari> +[<+>>>+<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>[<<<->>>[-]]<<<[->>+<<]>
08:30:02 <GregorR> - -> [<+>>>+<<-]<[>+<-]+>>>[<<<->>>[-]]<<<[->>-<<]>-
08:31:56 <GregorR> OR -> [>>+>>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<[>+>>>+<<<<-]>>>>[<<<<+>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<<<
08:32:12 <GregorR> [>>+>>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<[>+>>>+<<<<-]>>>>[<<<<+>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<<<[[-]>
08:32:15 <GregorR> [ -> [>>+>>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<[>+>>>+<<<<-]>>>>[<<<<+>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<<<[[-]>
08:32:27 <GregorR> ] -> [>>+>>>+<<<<<-]>>>>>[<<<<<+>>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<[>+>>>+<<<<-]>>>>[<<<<+>>>>-]<<<[[-]<<<+>>>]<<<]>
08:33:08 <GregorR> Should this be under "Brainfuck algorithms" ...?
08:36:22 <GregorR> Hmm, how do you put a multiline piece of data in a cell in a table in mediawiki ...
08:36:47 <GregorR> I hope you wrote a program to do it for you ;)
08:37:26 <GregorR> I hope you don't inadvertantly overlap ^_^
08:37:46 <calamari> first translating +->< into abcd
08:39:37 <GregorR> Speaking of us being from different universes :)
08:40:17 <calamari> Found and replaced 10821 occurrences. lol
08:42:12 <GregorR> Incidentally, numwarp.b worked great with my 1->4 converter.
08:45:47 <GregorR> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_bitwidth_conversions
08:47:12 <calamari> it's really 1->3 and 1->5 isn't it :)
08:47:43 <GregorR> No, because the actual cells used by the program are 2 and 4.
08:47:53 <GregorR> But that's not what's important.
08:58:09 <GregorR> OK, now let's take yapi.b, make it 8 cells wide, then run it on egobfi64 >: )
08:59:47 <GregorR> Well, it does increase latency hugely.
08:59:55 <GregorR> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, here's a crazy thought ..................
09:00:16 <GregorR> What if I compile a 1-cell version, 2-cell version and 4-cell version, and decide what to use at runtime?
09:00:37 <GregorR> It /ought/ to be possible, but might take so much time to decide that it's not worth it ...
09:01:17 <calamari> a 4-cell version of what? c2bf?
09:01:31 <GregorR> Of whatever program is being compiled.
09:01:50 <GregorR> IE, c2bf produces a 1-cell, then a program takes that and makes 1, 2, and 4 celled versions, and a wrapper to decide which at runtime.
09:02:26 <GregorR> I guess doing - 255 times is probably a problem, and doing it 2 billion times is a big problem ^_^
09:03:10 <GregorR> Hmm, but by doing 6*6*4, then checking if it's 0, you can see if you have an 8-bit one ...
09:03:15 <GregorR> And that's not too bad ...
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09:04:49 <GregorR_> What was the last line you got from me?
09:04:57 <calamari> <GregorR> Hmm, but by doing 6*6*4, then checking if it's 0, you can see if you have an 8-bit one ...
09:04:57 <calamari> <GregorR> And that's not too bad ...
09:05:08 <GregorR_> But had apparently already been killed.
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09:06:46 <calamari> actually, don't even need to do that
09:06:58 <calamari> since the cell already holds 256, just do x*x
09:08:46 <calamari> of course thats still slow, because * means -
09:09:12 <GregorR> Yeah, that as an add-to is nasty.
09:15:22 <calamari> (I'm having it crunch on those nice bf strings)
09:20:09 <GregorR> ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>[<++++>-]<[>+>+<<-]>[<+>-]+>[[-]<[-]<[>>+>+<<<-]>>>[<[<+<+>>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<<<[>+>+<<-]>[<+>-]+>[<-<[-] 1cell code [-]>[-]>[-]]<[-<[-] 2cell code [-]>[-]]]<[-<[-] 4cell code [-]>[-]]
09:20:16 <GregorR> I think that would work ...?
09:21:23 <calamari> if you say so.. too late at night hehe
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09:22:34 <GregorR> This is the last thing I do before I go to sleep :P
09:24:23 <GregorR> You may now praise me as a god.
09:25:55 <GregorR> $ ./c2bf-1toM yapi.b | wc -c
09:31:13 <lament> you converted C to BF????!
09:31:15 <GregorR> Or at least, there was no human-noticeable difference.
09:31:52 <calamari> I figured that'd be slow.. glad I was wrong
09:31:54 <GregorR> Don't ask me why 256*256 didn't take longer.
09:32:04 <GregorR> I guess it's only 65536 *shrugs*
09:33:25 <GregorR> Oh, I'm assuming that if it's still going strong after 65536, it must be 32 bits.
09:33:58 <GregorR> I don't quite understand "are you assuming 24=32" ...
09:34:27 <calamari> what you just said .. 256*256*256
09:35:05 <GregorR> No, I just assumed that if it even got to 65536 (17 bits), it's 32.
09:35:23 <GregorR> I can't imagine an 18-bit, 24-bit or 30-bit interp :)
09:35:36 <GregorR> Or rather, it uses the 1-celled version, not it assumes that it's 32-bit.
09:35:40 <GregorR> I should be more explicit there.
09:36:11 <calamari> yeah I guess 256*256 is plenty fast
09:41:35 <GregorR> Now, DEFINITELY time for sleep.
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11:03:47 <Keymaker> grhhh. got distracted from my work for a couple of days..
11:04:28 <Keymaker> and it's entirely unrelated to esolangs :\
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11:10:23 <Keymaker> wrong finger offset on keyboard :)
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11:42:10 <Keymaker> can a normal cd rom drive read playstation 2 discs?
11:42:49 <Keymaker> and does anyone know how i could rip musics from a game? is there anything common way they are stored?
11:51:58 <jix> i think ps2 disks are dvds
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12:00:09 <Keymaker> yah, reading works.. now copying two 400mb music files
12:00:15 <Keymaker> no idea about their format, though :\
12:01:07 <fizzie> Back in the DOS game period the musics used to be in one of the various MOD-like formats. Nowadays PC games usually use mp3 or other such formats, probably in various containers.
12:01:59 <fizzie> Blaystation 2, games, though. My guess would be a relatively custom format, but who knows.
12:02:46 <Keymaker> well, i can't read even mp3 format, so it may take a few decades till i get the sounds out
12:04:38 <Keymaker> i guess some "underground" ps2 forum might know
12:08:50 <Keymaker> the header of the file has the names of the track files written, like "snowptrl.mpf"
12:09:53 <Keymaker> it has the same names as ".mus" too
12:11:03 <Keymaker> well, my only hope is to find some program if there is any..
13:27:18 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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14:36:42 <nooga> HAL's response should be: "afirmative" or "true" or maybe lispish "t"
14:43:09 <nooga> but "yes" is also good
14:44:25 <nooga> hm, iwould like to put myself in Category:People but I wouldn't date
14:51:38 <nooga> i woder if apache has Haskell-mod
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15:22:50 <jix> i think i found a way to prove minks to be turing complete
15:29:14 <jix> but it think its output routines don't allow arbitrary input and output while being turing complete
15:32:59 <nooga> i think about implementing non-esoteric functional language which's syntax will be more Clike
15:34:52 <jix> maybe minks is missing an instruction to set a condition without decrementing
15:35:36 <jix> but i'm not sure
15:38:26 <kipple> GregorR: those bitwidth conversions look pretty nifty!
15:41:35 <jix> hmm no i'd need such a command
15:41:46 <jix> (at least for my current approach)
16:10:43 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:26:13 <jix> i have an idea for a new computational model but i have no idea wether it's turing complete or not
16:27:19 <jix> you have one data vector of N fractions
16:28:00 * SimonRC printed out the Befunge _Hunt the Wumpus_ once and drew in all the boundries that the PC never crossed.
16:28:36 <jix> you have three matrices called a C N and D
16:29:43 <jix> with every iteration you calculate the dot product of v and C the result is called i...
16:30:11 <jix> wait i used N twice
16:30:44 <jix> but no one listens anyway....
16:31:57 <jix> or does someone?
16:37:22 <SimonRC> (note: don't forget pointer arithmetic in bf2c!)
16:37:42 <jix> yeah and function pointers
16:37:56 <jix> and the gcc lable pointer extension and and and...
16:45:14 <SimonRC> jix: sorry, tell me more about this matrix thing
16:47:00 <jix> i'm going to post something on the wiki as soon as i'm ready with it
17:00:34 <jix> my machine is able to compute the gcd of two integers
17:03:02 <jix> i need a name for my machine
17:04:31 <jix> my matrix thing
17:04:44 <jix> (machine as in turing machine or register machine.. only a virtual one)
17:06:13 <SimonRC> Try writing a NOT function.
17:06:31 <jix> 1 => 0 and 0 => 1?
17:06:55 <jix> you should avoid using 0
17:07:09 <jix> because you get divide by 0 errors
17:07:32 <SimonRC> I didn;t know it did division.
17:13:00 <jix> you start with a vector V0 of j fractions and 4 matrices C N D and R of size j*j
17:13:43 <jix> to compute Va+1 you compute i, the dot product of Va and C
17:14:15 <jix> and again i encounter naming problems
17:15:07 <jix> nargh i have to write it down on the wiki
17:15:12 <jix> does it have latex support activated?
17:17:07 -!- calamari has joined.
17:18:13 <jix> it doesn't :(
17:21:27 <calamari> Keymaker: what does mplayer say about the file?
17:28:53 <jix> i want latex on the esolang wiki!
17:31:06 <calamari> link to this article ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latex
17:31:29 <jix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX << !
17:55:15 <Keymaker> calamari: no idea, haven't tried
17:55:24 <Keymaker> probably it wouldn't open, dunno
17:55:34 <Keymaker> it may be that game team's something own mixture
17:59:06 <jix> 3 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 << thats my gcd program
17:59:25 <jix> greatest common divisor
18:00:36 <jix> that is the size of C N D or R followed by the contents
18:01:09 <Keymaker> sorry, i don't understand anything about that (or the things you said in log) :9
18:01:43 <Keymaker> btw, since there is no latex, perhaps you could upload stuff as pictures?
18:01:50 <Keymaker> or make something pdf document?
18:01:54 <jix> yeah but that is annoying
18:03:46 <calamari> latex doesn't let you export to a bitmap format?
18:04:50 <calamari> btw.. when is the lat time graue was in here? seems like its been a while
18:17:04 -!- nooga has joined.
18:19:54 <nooga> I was at dentist -.-'
18:23:48 <nooga> she gave me 2 injections and it was still painfull, i cant talk now because my tongue is paralized
18:24:24 -!- {^Raven^} has quit ("Leaving").
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19:24:38 <jix> i need a name for my machine!
19:26:07 <Keymaker> can't remember your surname correctly, sorry :)
19:26:10 <jix> ha>>R<<der
19:26:36 <Keymaker> harder machine or.. hard machine
19:27:07 <jix> Ihnihtct Machine
19:27:19 <jix> I have no idea how to call this Machine
19:28:03 <Keymaker> (just thought because there are turing and minsky machines that are both named after their inventor (i guess))
19:28:24 <jix> afaik minsky called his machine register machine
19:29:24 <Keymaker> although, i may just as well have misinterpreted the article :)
19:29:53 <jix> but he didn't called them minsky machines
19:30:18 <Keymaker> well, just give something other name and people will start calling it harder machine :p
19:30:35 <jix> Weird Fraction Machine
19:30:52 <Keymaker> that sounds esotericish enough :)
19:31:27 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to GregorR.
19:31:45 <jix> moin GregorR
19:32:02 <GregorR> Apparently I'm doomed to disconnect and reconnect over and over for all eternity.
19:35:02 <jix> i don't want to write an article about my WFM
19:40:14 <GregorR> Your Windows File Manager? ^_^
19:44:03 <calamari> keymaker: how is your bf program going?
19:45:08 <calamari> why did you censor masturbation?
19:46:41 <Keymaker> calamari: as i said earlier today, i got distracted a bit because of one other project.. but i'm working on it at the moment
19:47:07 <Keymaker> the code will be far from anything elegant, perhaps i shouldn't even release it when it's ready :p it's horrible
19:47:13 -!- EgoBot has joined.
19:47:17 <GregorR> I have to find some way to keep EgoBot connected though my connection cuts unexpectedly ...
19:47:35 <calamari> I thought you had .. guess it didn't work as planned?
19:47:58 <GregorR> I found a way to keep it connected if it crashes ...
19:48:15 <calamari> btw, how long does it take after you lose your connection before apps start noticing it?
19:48:18 <GregorR> But the thing is, there's no way for it to detect when the connection cuts except to go "Hmm, I haven't gotten a ping in twenty minutes ..."
19:48:51 <calamari> I wonder how M$ does it so that apps notice so fast
19:54:35 <Keymaker> grhhh.. i hate using pen and paper but just now i'm too tired to think :p
19:55:58 <calamari> did I already mention that XTEA is 4 lines of Linguine?
20:00:49 <calamari> I was using bad variable numbers.. needed to change them
20:01:02 <calamari> was making it hard to call functions from within functions
20:01:58 <calamari> speaking of globals.. have fun with local variables in bf
20:02:18 <calamari> I guess you'll need to implement some sort of malloc
20:03:17 -!- {^Raven^} has joined.
20:04:18 <GregorR> Yo dog in dah hizzle wut up wikiwiki et cetera.
20:05:17 <GregorR> Sorry, the word "peeps" threw me into ebonics mode.
20:08:44 -!- ihope has joined.
20:09:00 * {^Raven^} considers hiding somewhere for a bit
20:09:01 <ihope> Two networks at once. It's extremely confusing.
20:09:25 <ihope> I can't stand it! /me leaves the other one
20:10:25 <ihope> Oh yeah? Well... well...
20:10:31 <ihope> I could be on FOUR if I wanted to!
20:10:48 <GregorR> Clearly you don't want to :P
20:11:13 <calamari> ihope: I've identified the problem.. ditch Chatzilla and use xchat :)
20:11:38 <ihope> It probably wouldn't be so bad if I simply joined all the Freenode servers.
20:11:47 <Keymaker> i wonder if this opera irc client could be in other networks at the same time
20:12:01 <GregorR> Ditch Chatzilla and use LostIRC :)
20:12:30 <jix> ihope: i was working on a minks tc proof
20:12:46 <ihope> Ditch both and use copy con com!
20:12:54 <ihope> Or whatever it is.
20:13:07 <jix> but i'm missing an instruction to force a condition to be true or false
20:13:40 <ihope> jix: just increment a register and decrement it again. I think that'll... hmm...
20:13:51 <jix> ihope: set a condition to false...
20:14:00 <jix> if you make conditions case sensitive
20:14:09 <ihope> Decrement a register until it's zero.
20:14:15 <jix> i loose it's value
20:14:21 <jix> and make hELLO == !Hello
20:14:39 <jix> then i can set hELLO to true to set Hello to false
20:15:09 <jix> and set everything that starts with a lowercase letter to false (as default value)
20:15:16 <ihope> But that would make it EASIER to use!
20:15:22 <calamari> GregorR: if you're on multiple servers is there any kind of divison like there is in xchat?
20:15:38 <jix> yeah but that would make it tc
20:15:40 <GregorR> No, it's just how I like it :)
20:16:04 <calamari> xchat is good, even though the author went slightly evil
20:16:27 <GregorR> Let's take all this code copyrighted to other people and relicense it with nobody's permission!
20:16:30 <Keymaker> is there any command for changing the exit message?
20:16:38 <jix> and i think it's impossible to use input and output and make it tc... but i may be wrong (in both cases)
20:16:48 <Keymaker> like something you write "/stuff "leaving"" or something?
20:17:19 <ihope> Hmm. Let's BF-to-Minks.
20:17:34 <Keymaker> i'll make a test, be back soon
20:17:39 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
20:17:39 <calamari> then let's change it after the fact
20:17:45 <ihope> BF with two infinite registers is Turing-complete, aye?
20:17:57 <calamari> whoa, I got got 10 lines all at once
20:18:24 -!- Keymaker has joined.
20:18:33 * calamari checks the torrent.. still going
20:18:43 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
20:18:59 <GregorR> SinceTime to leave - and so, I will leave you with this link: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_bitwidth_conversions
20:19:11 <GregorR> Grr, worst formed sentence ever.
20:19:20 <GregorR> Since it's time to leave, I will leave you with this link: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_bitwidth_conversions
20:19:27 <calamari> oh yeah, I kjeep forgetting to link to that from the bf page
20:19:28 -!- Keymaker has joined.
20:20:03 <GregorR> I linked it from the BF algorithms page.
20:27:53 -!- Keymaker has quit.
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20:31:06 <Keymaker> grh. couldn't get the quit message working with this opera client
20:31:23 -!- nooga has joined.
20:31:35 * nooga is making his new esolang!
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20:36:23 <nooga> what was that language based on words?
20:36:44 <Keymaker> hmm, i think there have been couple of
20:36:52 <Keymaker> one was called something gertrude or something
20:38:00 <Keymaker> http://p-nand-q.com/humor/programming_languages/gplz/gplz_gertrude.html
20:38:35 <Keymaker> there's a hello world program which is quite crazy..
20:46:37 <nooga> i need some cool way to calculate word's 'weight'
20:47:16 <Keymaker> perhaps adding every ascii character's value together?
20:47:24 <Keymaker> that's what i was planning to use sometime :p
20:47:48 <nooga> it would bevery hard to program
20:48:09 <nooga> programming in that language
20:48:21 <calamari> nooga: g's are heavier than i's, right? since the loop of the g hangs low, but the i lifts upward.. hehe
20:48:45 <nooga> something like this
20:49:34 <nooga> i need something that will connect totally different words, like: "pidgeon", "bread", "defenestrate"
20:49:41 <nooga> it's just an example
20:50:04 <calamari> connect them? you mean as a valid sentence?
20:51:07 <nooga> i mean theres no difference what word will u use, so u can put "bread" for "pidgeon" every time you are bored by "bread"
20:53:21 <calamari> what are those games called, where you fill in the blanks with words, mad-libs
20:54:09 <calamari> it might be interesting to have various allowed patterns, then words could be grouped to what they are: noun, verb, etc
20:54:42 <calamari> so then the program would be forced to be at least something like a sentence
20:55:19 <calamari> then, the form they used could also be a modifier
20:55:27 <calamari> (not only the wrods they chose)
20:55:59 <calamari> the problem is creating the word lists
20:56:41 <calamari> hm.. or you could create your own
20:56:59 <calamari> that'd be even better then it wouldn't be limited to a certain language
20:57:15 <calamari> although the templates would.. unless they could be changed also
21:01:36 <calamari> hmm. I wonder how many combinations of 2 words there are where if the letters in both words were mixed together randomly, the two words could be reconstructed given their lengths
21:03:36 <nooga> i thought i can count vowels in word and add it's length
21:03:49 <nooga> but it's not good solution
21:04:30 <nooga> pidgeon, dungeon, nodeGun
21:06:23 <nooga> hehe, i've got a name for my unfinished language
21:06:25 <calamari> if you want to account for the ordering, you can multiply by some constant as you go
21:07:21 <nooga> which is: Top Secret Idiotland's Army Language For Top Secret And Evil Calculations
21:28:24 -!- ihope_ has joined.
21:29:16 <ihope_> Yep. ChatZilla popped into lurkmode again.
21:29:56 -!- ihope has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:30:34 <ihope_> Some semi-serious lurkage. Not able to do anything but quit entirely.
21:30:45 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
21:39:12 <nooga> still no ideas -.-'
21:40:33 <Keymaker> i went to #brainfuck and it didn't exist before.. feel free to come to idle there, as well :p
21:47:30 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundex
21:51:42 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphone
21:52:08 <nooga> metaphone is much more complex
21:52:35 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein
21:58:31 <nooga> metaphone looks nice
22:18:30 <Keymaker> is there any way to un-register the username?
22:18:52 <ihope> It's /msg nickserv drop
22:19:09 <ihope> ...followed by username, then password
22:20:32 <ihope> So if you leave, we can all pretend to be you?
22:20:49 <Keymaker> i couldn't use the registered name stuff
22:21:10 <ihope> You mean /msg nickserv identify <password> every time you log in?
22:21:56 <ihope> Not even if it were something like "barfoo??
22:22:49 <ihope> Doesn't NickServ /msg you with a reminder upon connecting?
22:23:06 <ihope> -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
22:23:34 <Keymaker> or was it chanserv or something.
22:23:41 <Keymaker> something at least appears every time
22:24:19 <ihope> -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
22:29:31 <Keymaker> ok, now i registered it again, and tried to add this client to do that /msg nickserv identify stuff automatically
22:38:49 <ihope> Ack. Murble grumble.
22:38:55 <GregorR> Nice to know I get some respect.
22:39:04 <GregorR> "GregorR reappears <ihope> Aah! NOOO!"
22:39:10 <ihope> (And no, that wasn't about your "reappearing".)
22:40:04 <Keymaker> GregorR: join #brainfuck! we need more bloo.. eh idlers
22:40:21 <jix> ihope: bf with 5 registers
22:41:31 <lament> what's the point of a separate brainfuck channel?
22:42:01 <jix> ihope: you need 5 registers for bf to be tc
22:42:05 <ihope> <Keymaker> just for fun
22:51:38 -!- nooga has left (?).
22:52:44 <ihope> So it's time to write a spec for BF-PR, which is almost the best esoteric programming language.
22:54:25 <ihope> Enumerability time...
22:55:34 * SimonRC get irritated by a webcomic with a slightly blatent Christian message.
22:56:31 <Keymaker> not that i'd read those anyways
22:56:50 <SimonRC> It has a bear with incarnate aspects of his personality.
22:58:13 <SimonRC> It would be marginaly less irritating without furries.
22:58:28 <SimonRC> I only found it because it was linked to from another webcomic that it was doing a cameo of.
23:04:37 <ihope> lament: a language I haven't finished yet
23:22:37 <ihope> ...Yeah, wouldn't 3 be enough?
23:22:51 <ihope> Two for the Minsky and one for flow control?
23:23:27 <jix> yeah but the proof is for 5 registers
23:33:10 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:39:31 <Keymaker> ok, now the brainfuck channel is at ##brainfuck
23:39:43 <Keymaker> (and owned by gregorr.. beware!)
23:45:45 <ihope> !bf_txtgen Like this!
23:46:00 <EgoBot> 91 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>+.>>.++.>----.<<++.>+++++++++.>+++.+.<-.<+. [594]
00:20:40 <Keymaker> perhaps someone else can explain better :p
00:20:45 <ihope> 'Cause brainfuck's not ours.
00:21:21 <GregorR> Since we don't own the name "brainfuck", we're not supposed to use it.
00:21:32 <GregorR> If you join #brainfuck, you'll get forwarded.
00:21:56 <lament> we don't own the name "esoteric", either (but don't tell anybody!)
00:23:04 <Keymaker> but the english wikipedia says brainfuck is also a proper noun..
00:23:12 <ihope> Well, we do own Esolang...
00:23:34 <GregorR> "esoteric" is an adjective.
00:23:41 <GregorR> Therefore, it is irrelevent whether we have one or two #s.
00:23:57 <lament> as in, "i just had a very brainfuck day" :D
00:24:03 <lament> or, "your shoes are totally brainfuck, man"
00:24:41 -!- lament has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric || The channel is moving to ####esoteric. Thanks.
00:24:45 <GregorR> I don't know if I like wearing T-Shirts with "fuck" on them
00:25:07 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
00:25:18 -!- lament has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric || To abide with the freenode policy, the channel is moving to ################esoteric.
00:25:23 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
00:25:33 <lament> stop erasing my topic :(
00:25:45 <GregorR> Stop mocking legitimite policy.
00:25:56 <lament> it's a braindead legitimate policy
00:26:12 <GregorR> It's totally logical legitimate policy.
00:26:40 <lament> not when it leads to having to move #brainfuck to ##brainfuck.
00:27:19 <GregorR> Am I the ONLY person who thinks that policy makes perfect sense?
00:27:31 <ihope> Not perfect sense, but sense.
00:28:12 <lament> "let's have a rule just for the sake of having a rule"
00:28:39 <lament> "and then apply it to everything even when it makes no sense, because it's a rule"
00:28:53 <ihope> Done. Now everybody must include at least one @ in every chat message they send.
00:29:24 <lament> what if @ disobey the rule?
00:29:41 <Keymaker> this seems to be smart, it's a rule afterall :)@
00:29:41 <ihope> lament: what rule would @ disobey?
00:30:00 <lament> ihope: i could send a message without including any @ in it
00:30:13 <lament> ihope: what would happen to me@ then?
00:30:20 <GregorR> The difference here is that that rule is ridiculous whereas the about-channel rule is based in logic.
00:30:29 <lament> GregorR: OH MY GOD@@@@@@
00:30:42 <lament> GregorR: that's the fucking point.
00:30:50 <lament> GregorR: that's what makes it braindead.
00:31:10 <lament> GregorR: it's based on logic, as opposed to common sense.
00:31:53 <lament> I am not a computer, i don't care much about logic
00:32:02 <lament> when people force me to be logical, i get pissed off.
00:32:50 <lament> it's common sense to have only a #foo channel when you know that if you have ##foo, #foo will simply remain unused.
00:32:57 <lament> (this is the case with ##C)
00:36:18 <lament> GregorR: oh, i talked to a girl who plays flute, she says the piece i pasted the mp3 for here is pretty easy
00:36:50 <GregorR> I would think otherwise with the accidentals, etc.
00:36:51 <lament> a bunch of people told me flute's reasonably easy and i should be able to "get it"
00:36:54 <GregorR> But I don't play the flute ^^
00:37:38 <lament> hey, on the two instruments you do play, playing accidentals is not any harder than other notes :)
00:38:39 <lament> on a harmonica accidentals are hard :)
01:30:32 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
01:47:04 * SimonRC thinks the scheme is a bit odd.
01:47:31 <SimonRC> But the seperation is fairly logical.
01:47:44 <SimonRC> It's all about who "owns" the channel.
01:48:12 <SimonRC> The owners of Foo also can own #foo, but the fans or whatever of Foo get ##foo.
01:48:12 <GregorR> Oh no, back to that conversation XD
01:50:29 <SimonRC> e.g. Bill Gates has a right to be a (benevolent) dictator on #microsoft, but anyone can discuss advantages and bugs of MS stuff on ##microsoft
02:00:08 <lament> the guitar is so hard :(
02:00:21 -!- ihope_ has joined.
02:00:24 <lament> actually i don't hate guitar, i hate harmony.
02:00:46 <GregorR> The guitar is rarely a melody instrument :)
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02:23:09 * ihope_ tries to find an excuse to say "the vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"
02:24:02 * GregorR gives ihope_ a plate of rotten meat and pours him a glass of first-rate vodka.
02:25:19 * ihope_ doesn't know how vodka works, so he pours it on the meat
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02:57:17 <ihope_> Did you put any shiny IRC commands into Glass, or is it all just the basics?
02:57:55 <GregorR> Glass has nothing to do with IRC ......
03:04:42 <GregorR> Well, there's an "emote" class.
03:04:46 <GregorR> But otherwise, no, nothing special.
03:25:49 <calamari> esobot clips the text too, in privmsg
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04:15:23 <EgoBot> 1 calamari: daemon hangman glass
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04:35:05 <ihope_> Time to go. 154 minutes past bedtime.
04:35:06 -!- ihope_ has quit ("What the heck is a Beerdigungnachricht?").
06:16:23 <lament> i'm several years past bedtime!
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06:36:35 <GregorR> You're a bit late for Chinese New Year.
06:36:40 <GregorR> And even more late for Gregorian New Year.
06:36:46 <GregorR> So I don't know what you're talking about :P
06:37:25 <puzzlet> lament said he passed several years, so.. :p
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08:33:11 <GregorR> Working on code generation now.
08:34:05 <nooga> does it compile void main() {} yet?
08:34:55 <GregorR> I'm not testing anything QUITE that simple ;)
08:44:33 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck.
09:12:52 <nooga> then what are you testing?
09:13:12 <GregorR> int main() { asm("..."); return 0; }
09:13:43 <nooga> i thought that it was __asm {...}
09:14:49 <GregorR> That would be /more/ difficult to implement.
09:16:27 <nooga> i guess that you put bf in asm("...") ?
09:16:52 <GregorR> I actually just put literally "..." right now ;)
09:17:03 <GregorR> But once I get it doing /something/ I'll put legitimate test code.
09:18:28 <GregorR> Right now I'm being confused by the fact that the parse order got horribly off somewhere ...
09:21:46 <GregorR> Oh, there we go, that's good ^^
09:32:40 <nooga> i have just found funny query language
09:33:17 <nooga> SQLish "select * from t where x>3" is "t[x>3]"
09:34:09 <nooga> select x,y from t where x>3 --> t[x>3]$(x,y)
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11:34:06 <nooga> i just cant wait when c2bf will compile void main() {int a = 12; print((a*2)+3); return 0;}
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15:01:52 <{^Raven^}> nooga: It'd be funny if you got a warning telling you to cast main as an int :P
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19:58:27 <ihope> F = Fantastic, D = Dynamite, C = Cool, B = Bad, A = Atrocious
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20:33:16 <Keymaker> rghh.. renovating is so annoying
20:33:32 <Keymaker> and tomorrow.. and the day after that.. and the day after that..
20:33:44 <Keymaker> i hope i even remember the word correctly.. :\
20:33:47 <kipple> what are you renovating? your apartement?
20:33:58 <Keymaker> or well, our, since i live with my folks :p
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03:42:33 <GregorR> For those who aren't on ##brainfuck but may be interested (and to subvert the entire point of forking this channel);
03:42:39 <GregorR> C2BF has just compiled its first application.
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17:45:25 <nooga> GregorR: hows c2bf/
17:59:05 <GregorR> nooga: I'm working on compiling a fibonacci sequence generator right now (first one with recursion)
17:59:24 <GregorR> Ironically, the problem is not in function calls or recursion, but in that I wrote a broken '<=' algorithm X-P
18:01:51 * GregorR uses /me to be vague about what he's actually saying.
18:02:16 <GregorR> nooga: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brainfuck/c2bf/
18:02:31 <calamari> GregorR: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/sm1Ehg21.html
18:04:13 <GregorR> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, looks sort of like you subtracted one from the other and gave yourself a point if the other became 0?
18:04:44 <calamari> been a LONG time since I wrote these
18:05:21 <GregorR> Looks like in my attempt to get fibo working I broke function calls in general X-P
18:05:57 <calamari> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/LttdAA66.html
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18:07:03 <calamari> I'm sure there's probably a better dbc-elegant solution, but this gets the job done at least :)
18:08:57 <calamari> hmm, looks likethat's not exactly a drop-in solution, since I think you'd want 0 / 1 not 0 /255
18:09:16 <calamari> but it's easily fixed, // @V1- V1=255
18:10:06 <nooga> you're genious gregor
18:10:52 <GregorR> See, just a little shameless flattery, that's all I need to keep me going X-P
18:12:33 <calamari> hrm.. something about that code smells
18:13:05 <GregorR> It should compile up to test3.
18:13:21 <GregorR> test4 is borked because I broke function calling .... I'll fix that tonight (can't fix it now, time to go to schoo.
18:14:37 <calamari> do you mind using bfbasic routines? if not, I can get some of that done easily
18:15:14 <GregorR> Of course I don't, but I actually have a function calling convention set up, just broken. For other stuff, feel free to toss 'em in.
18:15:18 <GregorR> Just keep in mind the layout:
18:15:38 <calamari> well, you already have + done, so I can use that as an example
18:15:52 <GregorR> {S}{H}{ST}{W}{C} - you can use walk and carry as temps, if you want more, grab the next walk and carry. And make sure to zero them when you're done.
18:16:09 <GregorR> Basically, you do to generate_expression calls of some sort, then you combine them in some way ^^
18:16:24 <GregorR> If you want to fix the genbf_relational_expr's, that'd be awesome too ;)
18:16:48 <calamari> well, I have code for > < = != <= >= && || not neg
18:17:40 <GregorR> No offense, but please submit patches.
18:17:43 <GregorR> Rather than committing to CVS.
18:17:50 <GregorR> So I can make sure everything is 100% compliant ^^
18:18:05 <GregorR> (Except for function calls ;) )
18:18:25 <calamari> not sure how to do that, but if something is wrong, isn't cvs good for that?
18:18:38 <calamari> I won't be messing with anything except operators
18:18:56 <GregorR> Well, tell me exactly what files you edited then.
18:18:59 <GregorR> I just want to make sure I can review it.
18:19:09 <GregorR> I guess asking for patches is a bit ridiculous, isn't it :-P
18:19:17 <GregorR> Oh, and make sure to put your copyright notice on them, too!
18:19:25 <GregorR> Hate having contributors not having copyright lines :P
18:21:58 <kipple> wow, you got a working c2bf already? nice work!
18:25:23 <nooga> will be funny to write bflibc :>
18:25:37 <nooga> and then... we'll write unix-like OS in c2bf :D
18:27:16 <calamari> bf has a nasty lack of file ability
18:27:52 <calamari> although you could interpret an os inside bf, with a file capable version of bf included
18:30:21 <calamari> I suppose it could be made to work if the program knew exactly which files it'd be using in advance (and only those files).. then they'd be fed as input in a certain format, then re-output .. the os would then save the output as the new files
18:31:56 <nooga> that was a joke ;p
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18:56:40 <GregorR-L> Well, here I am in Renaissance Studies.
19:27:35 <kipple> he has the means, motive and opportunity. I say he's guilty
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20:18:22 <GregorR-L> Bah, don't have egobfi on this compy.
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23:57:09 <kipple> does anyone know if there are available archives of the mailing list prior to 2001?
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01:07:22 <ihope> What be we doin' today?
01:08:03 <GregorR> (And more importantly, compiling fibonacci sequence generators with C2BF :) )
01:08:16 <GregorR> (Yeah, that's right. Recursion works. Boo-ya)
01:11:18 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
01:11:20 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
01:11:50 <ihope> ...Ooh, it looks fun.
01:14:44 <ihope> Now to write a spec for ///
01:15:47 <GregorR> Is it anything like /quit?
01:16:07 <GregorR> You were supposed to type "/quit ?"
01:16:25 <ihope> It's based on this s/foo/bar/ stuff.
01:16:44 <ihope> It has two symbols: delimiters / and escapes \.
01:17:41 <GregorR> I'll wait 'til there's a wiki page :P
01:36:56 <ihope> Unlike in Malbolge, it's very easy to write a quine in this language.
01:37:08 <ihope> Any string containing neither \ nor / is a quine.
01:38:07 <ihope> It's another of those a-character-prints-itself languages.
01:38:11 <ihope> And no, it's not cat.
01:39:49 <ihope> Hmm. I knew I had spelled "destonation" wrong.
01:40:10 <kipple> yeah, the s doesn't belong there...
01:40:48 <GregorR> So guys ... why aren't you adding algorithms to C2BF?
01:40:52 <ihope> You know, this language is similar to Smurf.
01:40:57 <GregorR> It is your CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY.
01:41:00 <ihope> GregorR: where is it?
01:41:19 <GregorR> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brainfuck/c2bf/
01:42:39 <ihope> Where's cvs.sourceforge.net? :-P
01:49:20 <ihope> +++++++++[>++++++>+++++>++++++<<<-]>..>+.>---.<<-.>.>-.<<.>++.--.>.<++.<++.
01:49:36 <GregorR> !bf +++++++++[>++++++>+++++>++++++<<<-]>..>+.>---.<<-.>.>-.<<.>++.--.>.<++.<++.
02:02:21 <ihope> And the /// spec is up.
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05:04:58 <calamari> GregorR: I've been coding for 11 straight hours.. just got home.. my brain is too burnt out to look at those operators tonight
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05:10:12 * calamari burns a trance cd for the living room
05:18:34 <GregorR> Arrogant wants to implement some algorithms in BF.
05:18:46 <GregorR> He's dying to implement algorithms in BF.
05:19:27 <Arrogant> I can't stand implementing algorithms in BF.
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17:54:22 <nooga> what was the adress of that c2bf cvs?
18:12:16 <jix> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brainfuck/c2bf/
18:13:41 <jix> a self compiling c2bf would be cool
18:15:34 <calamari> already able to compile simple programs
18:16:25 <jix> i need a cvs tutorial
18:16:41 <nooga> but it will be really fun to write C2BF in that special C and compile it with C2BF :>
18:20:23 <jix> i get a compile error :(
18:29:53 <nooga> GregorR is one of the best hackers i've met
18:31:18 * nooga is listening to Polish blues from 70'
18:51:47 <jix> GregorR: it doesn't compile!
18:51:55 <jix> anyone else got it working?
18:54:24 <jix> whoops it was flex's fault
18:54:35 <jix> i had 2 flex versions installed
19:28:13 <nooga> i could hack c2bf to generate code for brainfork
19:28:33 <nooga> though i'll need good AI algorhitm
19:33:00 <nooga> wich will divide program smartly
19:45:16 <nooga> GregorR: is there only int in c2bf?
19:53:12 <jix> it's far from complete
19:54:11 <nooga> but i've considered adding some other simple types
19:55:14 <nooga> it's better to watch when other ppl do this :D
19:57:05 <nooga> I JUST CANT STAND THAT WERID SILENCE OMG
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21:16:46 <ihope> So is /// Turing-complete?
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21:52:10 <ihope> New term: quineful language, in which every program not containing any of some set of characters is a quine.
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21:59:15 <kipple> hmm. are there many of those?
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23:07:06 <GregorR-L> {^Raven^}: This is where you proceed to have a conversation ;)
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23:08:18 <{^Raven^}> i'm on three different machines atm
23:09:16 <{^Raven^}> my irc client is nunning on a machine hundreds of miles away
23:09:53 <{^Raven^}> i've had an idea for an esoteric programming method
23:10:16 <{^Raven^}> but i'm not sure where to start with the programming language made available
23:13:29 <{^Raven^}> i've been boggling for months on what the fundamental language is
23:14:02 <GregorR-L> I think that phrase needs a booming voice behind it.
23:15:11 <{^Raven^}> The programming technique is atm the most esoteric part of the system
23:17:55 <{^Raven^}> I've got all these ideas of esoteric systems but the actual language itself is not forthcoming
23:18:28 <GregorR-L> Too esoteric for a programming language? ^^
23:19:17 <{^Raven^}> other esoteric languages exist that are based on an esoteric programming technique
23:20:17 <{^Raven^}> i want to aviod cloning an existing base language at all costs
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23:29:09 <GregorR-L> ssh: connect to host cvs.sourceforge.net port 22: Connection refused
23:32:32 <GregorR-L> Teehee - 2004/12/26: nooga plans to write c2bf
23:32:59 <GregorR-L> 2006/01/02: GregorR starts writing C2BF ;)
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23:48:58 <ihope> Okay. The only quineful languages I know of are /// and the dying FCELL.
23:49:14 <kipple> FCELL? never heard of it
23:49:32 <ihope> Well, I got stuck on it. It's the First-Class Execution Language, Lol.
23:50:12 <ihope> It's somewhat similar to ///, but not really.
23:50:45 <ihope> Brackets indicate scope of a syntax element, and the backslash is the escape character.
23:50:51 <ihope> Beyond that, I don't know.
23:51:25 <kipple> all languages which allow null-quines would fit the description of quineful I think...
23:52:11 <ihope> Well, but that would be quineful in every character. That's not allowed.
00:03:19 <ihope> Now... can a language with limited input be Turing-complete?
00:03:48 <ihope> ...where "input" includes both the program itself and anything the user inputs?
00:16:29 <ihope> There should be only two non-esoteric languages.
00:17:11 <ihope> Programmers write in pre, then it gets compiled into post, which the computer executes.
00:36:51 <ihope> Well, I think /// is Turing-complete.
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01:13:36 <ihope_> Grumble grumble mouse fell out of the laptop allowing it to close for enough that it figured I was done using it and went into hibernate mode which caused it to lose its Internet connection grumble.
01:15:02 <ihope_> Now let's see what Linux is...
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01:38:20 <lament> what's a limited input?
01:38:40 <lament> input is irrelevant to TC
01:38:45 <lament> the turing machine has no input :)
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06:24:30 <GregorR> Is that noogaspeak for "Oh damn, just him."
06:24:51 <nooga> thank godness some1 is here
06:25:18 <nooga> it's early morning here, so our european irc channels are rather empty
06:26:29 <nooga> i've read c2bf code
06:27:00 <nooga> there should be some automaic tools for AST
06:27:37 <GregorR> There are for CST (concrete syntax tree)
06:27:43 <GregorR> But you just don't use CST ^^
06:33:25 <nooga> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfork
06:34:44 <nooga> in future c2bf could compile to brainfork, but it would be hard task to use Y properly
06:38:19 <nooga> i can't access sourceforge's CVS
06:39:53 <GregorR> Just keep trying, eventually it'll work :(
06:40:12 <GregorR> Care to implement div and mod (and perhaps take this conversation to ##brainfuck :P)
06:43:01 <nooga> whan do you plan making some other types, like char and arrays?
06:43:35 <fizzie> Usually logging to shell.sf.net, doing a "cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs1:/cvsroot/... co", then tarballing and scp'ing the checked-out sources home, works.
07:14:02 <nooga> because i wanted to say something about my new language
07:14:55 <GregorR> For all non-BF-related esoteric programming talk, here. BF is it's own amazing, powerful entity for elsewhere :P
07:15:29 <nooga> im working on Idiot's Arithmetics (tm)
07:16:53 <nooga> {5*3} = {555} = (in normal mode) 5+5+5 = 15
07:17:29 <nooga> i don't have an idea for doing - and negative numbers
07:17:58 <nooga> brb, switching to linux
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07:27:09 <nooga> additionally 2*3+4 is like 2*(3+4)
07:29:45 <nooga> assignment is reversed: istead of a = 5 you'll write 5 = a
07:30:35 <nooga> and variables are recognized by their soundex index
07:32:03 <nooga> so: 123 = brute; flint cute;
07:32:42 <nooga> is like in normal language: x = 123; print x;
07:35:26 <nooga> hehe, i must make arithmetics complete
07:36:25 <nooga> normal 12*5 would be: {(3*4)*5}
07:37:11 <nooga> {3333*5} = {3333 3333 3333 3333 3333} = 60
07:39:21 <GregorR> You sure it's still possible at that point?
07:39:33 <GregorR> Isn't there an ambiguity problem?
07:43:53 <nooga> that's my dilema :>
07:45:09 <nooga> is which rhyme are still the best
07:56:45 <GregorR> Though doing so makes coding a pest.
07:59:38 <nooga> what r u doing @ the moment?
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16:02:18 <J|x> moin nooga
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16:11:56 <nooga> how to shift array in rb?
16:13:39 <jix> ri Array#shift
16:39:25 <nooga> what is equivalent of flex for use fith racc?
16:40:05 <jix> write your own... it's very easy (take a look at the calc.y example)
16:40:46 <nooga> but what is the format of token stream?
16:40:53 <nooga> and how to include semantics?
16:41:22 <jix> take a look at the examples
16:41:34 <jix> or learn Japanese and read the docs
16:42:00 <nooga> only example i've managed to obtain haven't got any semantics
16:42:10 <nooga> and teher's no clue how to produce tokens
16:43:24 <jix> the token stream is an array of [:TOKEN_NAME,value] or ["token name",value] (afaik)
16:43:39 <jix> you can refer to :TOKEN_NAME using TOKEN_NAME and to "token name" using "token name"
16:43:48 <nooga> good, as i expected
16:44:04 <nooga> i use simmilar format in my hand written parser
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19:37:48 <Keymaker> http://bf-hacks.org/hacks/kbfi.b
19:46:03 <Keymaker> isn't anyone going to check it? :\
19:51:03 <kipple> keymaker:wow. sounds very cool
19:52:31 <kipple> so, is it wrapping or non-wrapping?
19:52:47 <Keymaker> it's non-wrapping, naturally :)
19:53:29 <kipple> "infinite" number of cells too?
19:54:16 <Keymaker> this program should keep it busy for a while: +[[>++<-]>]
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20:00:31 <jix> infinite memory and every cell is infinite too?!
20:00:53 <jix> and it runs on a 8bit bf?
20:01:27 <Keymaker> it won't run on 4bit because of the output thing and input
20:02:21 <kipple> what happens when you decrement below 0?
20:02:34 <Keymaker> something error behaviour starts to happen
20:02:41 <Keymaker> the interpreter doesn't check any errors
20:03:14 <Keymaker> although some of those would've been easy to implement
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22:38:01 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
22:38:02 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
22:38:28 <ihope> Just how do the 2D languages work with EgoBot?
22:39:22 <ihope> Well, who's written a non-trivial /// quine? >:-)
22:45:15 <ihope> This definitely won't work: /{\/}/{\/}/{\/}{\/{\\\/}\/{\\\/}\/{\\\/}}
22:50:39 <ihope> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Slashes
22:50:49 <ihope> Or something like that.
22:51:04 <ihope> If not, you'll just have to guess. >:-D
23:41:26 <ihope> (And I managed to keep my Internet connection all these many... minutes...)
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00:11:09 <ihope> ?ACTION does something that won't work?
00:11:34 <GregorR> ^$&($#@@ACTION it's just chr(1), ihope $&#@()#^@&($#@^$*(#@&$(*#
00:12:59 * ihope wonders what he just killed
00:13:36 <ihope> Apparently I didn't kill what I wanted to kill
00:14:01 <ihope> +.++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>++++++>++++<<<<-]>>>>+++++.++.<------.>++++++.++++++.-.<<++.>++++++++++++++.+++.+++++++.+++.-.<<--.>>+++++.<.>+.-----.<.<++.-.>>.+.<<---.>.>--.+.++++++++.<.<---------------------------------------.----.-------------.----. [-]+.
00:14:13 <GregorR> Yeah, you probably killed kill.
00:14:32 <ihope> Well, I think I booched it.
00:14:39 <ihope> Anyway... /me points up
00:16:43 <GregorR> !bf8 +.++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>++++++>++++<<<<-]>>>>+++++.++.<------.>++++++.++++++.-.<<++.>++++++++++++++.+++.+++++++.+++.-.<<--.>>+++++.<.>+.-----.<.<++.-.>>.+.<<---.>.>--.+.++++++++.<.<---------------------------------------.----.-------------.----. [-]+.
00:16:51 * EgoBot belongs to ihope now >:-)
00:17:40 <EgoBot> Use: ps Function: display the current processes
00:17:47 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
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00:37:31 <ihope> I think it was my fault.
00:37:43 <ihope> 16:27:21 <ihope> > ((+) >>= const) 2 3
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00:38:52 <ihope> I'd like a network where those happened on a regular basis.
00:38:59 <ihope> Preferably every five minutes or so.
00:39:58 <calamari> GregorR: I would have had this homework done hours ago if I was using python (read: if I wasn't so bad at c)
00:40:50 <ihope> I heard Python is... THE language.
00:41:17 * ihope merges Python and Haskell into an esoteric language
00:41:47 <GregorR> Python has an obnoxious syntax.
00:42:04 <GregorR> I just can't stand the fact that there's no block-ending notation other than "there are less spaces here"
00:42:24 <ihope> No inline notation?
00:42:40 <calamari> even with that I am more productive in python than c
00:42:42 <GregorR> ihope: Blocks and such are segmented with indentation.
00:42:58 <calamari> and of course more productive in java than either
00:43:02 <GregorR> I wouldn't even mind the segmenting with indentation so much if blocks were ended.
00:43:42 <calamari> yeah, even basic has END IF :)
00:44:04 <calamari> just pretend you're coding a makefile, heh
00:44:19 <ihope> Hmm, how about parentheses?
00:54:54 <GregorR> Pretty similar to other languages in that respect.
00:55:00 <GregorR> IIRC, function calls can be made without ...?
00:57:46 <ihope> Function calls can be made without ASCII art.
00:59:11 <kipple> what's this? a guessing game?
00:59:54 <GregorR> I was hoping that "parentheses" was obvious there.
01:00:14 <kipple> function calls can be made without a phone
01:01:00 <kipple> a language where function calls _can't_ be made without ASCII art could be interesting :P
01:01:34 <GregorR> If you ever want to see a C2Kipple you'd better hush :P
01:01:52 <ihope> Kipple's Turing-complete?
01:02:39 <ihope> Can you give me the first 10 ternary digits of Graham's number?
01:03:37 <GregorR> Damn IRP interpreter's broken ...
01:03:46 <ihope> The answer: 1000000000
01:03:54 <ihope> Or 100, if you want.
01:04:27 <ihope> In ternary, Graham's number is 1 followed by Many, Many 0's(TM)
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01:35:14 <ihope> Grumble grumble mumble grumble?
01:36:14 <GregorR> You've just found the meaning of life?
01:57:50 <lament> sound synthesis makes no sense
01:58:35 <ihope> Sound synthesis makes sound!
01:58:54 <lament> not when i try doing it :)
01:59:17 <ihope> Noise can be sound.
01:59:24 <ihope> Just not good sound.
02:01:50 <kipple> noise can be good too :)
02:03:48 <ihope> I'm rich! I'm rich!
02:05:47 <ihope> I'm a millionaire, for low values of 1,000,000.
02:06:10 <lament> one at 220Hz, one at 330
02:06:19 <lament> i add one to the other, expecting to hear both of them
02:06:30 <lament> instead, what i get is a single sound at 550 Hz!
02:07:20 <ihope> Hmm. It should be a sound at 275Hz with a beat of...
02:08:04 <lament> how do i get two sounds?
02:08:10 <ihope> [insert lesser time gap here]
02:09:39 <ihope> Well, I suppose you can just figure out what the sum of the two sounds is.
02:09:50 <ihope> It's a sound at 275Hz with a beat of...
02:10:18 <lament> if instead of adding the sounds, i play them in separate channels
02:10:27 <lament> then it does NOT sound like 550Hz
02:10:32 <lament> what does the mixer do that i don't?
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04:16:05 <calamari> bah.. it connects to localhost but not anywhere else :(
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16:52:40 <jix> GregorR: any updates on c2bf
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18:51:48 <jix> moin GregorR-L
18:54:00 <jix> GregorR-L: any progress on c2bf?
18:54:14 <GregorR-L> Yeah, I'm working on arrays n' pointers right now.
18:54:45 <GregorR-L> Though yesterday I took a break to finally record GRegor-op8.ogg
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19:32:44 <{^Raven^}> calamari: What should PESOIX-EsoAPI do for disk access calls?
19:33:53 <{^Raven^}> Making them access a user specified disk image seems the most logical
19:35:32 <calamari> I was directly accessing the floppy
19:38:43 <{^Raven^}> Low level disk access would be non-trivial due to the portability requirement
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19:39:34 <calamari> does pesoix given file i/o ability ?
19:40:14 <{^Raven^}> PESOIX-Easel allows file manipulation
19:42:41 <{^Raven^}> PESOIX - A mad idea {^Raven^} had one day about making esoteric languages more useful in the real world
19:43:30 <nooga> haha... my newest idea is a language in which IDs and keywords will rhyme
19:43:41 <{^Raven^}> It works with any esolang that has i/o capabilities
19:44:16 <nooga> so: brute = 5; cute == 5
19:45:23 <nooga> {^Raven^}: can you say something more?
19:46:11 <calamari> Raven: which came first, easel or esoapi ?
19:48:44 <calamari> although I didn't come up with the idea.. there was that bfi interpreter that used video buffer memory
19:48:55 <{^Raven^}> nooga: PESOIX is an operating system abstraction layer for esoteric programming languages which provides methods for an esoteric program to interact with the host computer
19:49:16 <calamari> and we discussed it withthe original eso
19:49:45 <calamari> I even developed an api for it.. but people lost interest
19:50:23 <{^Raven^}> I'm not really sure what the market is for PESOIX.
19:51:13 <{^Raven^}> calamari: well... that goes without saying
19:51:41 <calamari> it could use command line stuff too.. does pesoix handle that?
19:52:15 <calamari> we could enhance bfbasic as well
19:52:36 <calamari> although.. I think for it to gain more acceptance, some of the non-essential functions should be removed
19:52:50 <calamari> for example, if it could be computed, however slowly
19:53:46 <calamari> but no matter how much computation I do, I can't read a real file with bf, or find out what time it is, etc
19:54:49 <calamari> so I guess it'd be more like posix
19:55:28 <calamari> is that where pesoix comes from ? :)
19:55:55 <{^Raven^}> yes, but someone else came up with the name
19:57:01 <{^Raven^}> I wanted to write a CGI script in BF that manipulated form data
19:57:47 <calamari> then we could write a bf web server
19:58:12 <{^Raven^}> Commands starting 00h 08h are reserved for networking
20:00:48 <{^Raven^}> There is the concept of different dialects of PESOIX that allows at least 127 different function sets
20:01:18 <calamari> didn't know it was already divided up tho
20:01:46 <{^Raven^}> there is more information on my site (google: project easel)
20:03:08 <calamari> oops 292, that was one I found earlier
20:04:22 <{^Raven^}> calamari: are you evolving the string with the terminating linefeed?
20:05:55 <{^Raven^}> that LF could be getting in the way
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20:09:17 <{^Raven^}> I am still pondering the apparent need for security settigs in PESOIX
20:10:49 <{^Raven^}> For things like deleting, creating and altering files, and executing system commands
20:11:43 <calamari> i guess, unless there wasnt an os, in the bos case :)
20:12:05 <{^Raven^}> full file access is a requirement of Easel
20:13:07 <{^Raven^}> two options are to either prompt the user or the user specifies a trust level as a command line parameter to the host interpreter
20:14:20 <calamari> well, consider /etc/passwd.. doesn't matter your security settings in easel, it won't be modified, unless it was run as root
20:15:40 <{^Raven^}> I don't like the idea of PESOIX being used for malware or other nasty programs
20:19:59 * {^Raven^} is scared of adding GET#filehandle to the bfbasic expression handler
20:20:34 <calamari> we should make a yacc grammar for basic
20:22:47 * {^Raven^} is hopelessly newbish with compiler compilers and parser generators
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20:23:40 <{^Raven^}> Then it should be a lot of fun doing :)
20:23:44 <calamari> but it'd be nice to get my feet wet before starting a compilers class next semester
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20:24:36 * calamari searches in vain for a yacc written in quickbasic :)
20:27:26 <{^Raven^}> looking for a quickbasic yacc grammer could also be useful
20:28:51 <{^Raven^}> bfbasic can already use all features of PESOIX but via INKEY and PRINT CHR$()
20:31:08 <jix> calamari: i'm at 275
20:31:39 <{^Raven^}> jix: have you entered the competition yet? It ends today or tomorrow
20:31:48 <jix> {^Raven^}: it ends tomorrow
20:33:06 <{^Raven^}> jix: how many instructions does it execute to complete?
20:34:11 <jix> i have a very long loop
20:34:27 <jix> but i didn't count them
20:35:27 <jix> and i'm not sure how to count the [ and ]
20:36:18 <jix> and i didn't optimized it for that
20:37:06 <{^Raven^}> dbc's code should be interesting as it has the lowest count of the entries
20:40:23 <jix> did you use textgen tools?
20:43:16 <lament> i read that as 'hebrew'
20:45:37 <jix> i started with a 320 byte from a modified textgen.java but i totally changed the left hand side (the loop) and the right hand side... i used a 100% homebrew tool (using a different algorithm) to optimize parts of the right hand side... but it wouldn't be that short without manual optimizations
20:47:04 <calamari> I'll see what I can get with a pure textgen
20:47:16 <calamari> 292, it seems.. but who knows hehe
20:48:11 <jix> yeah later tries using textgen resulted in 29* .. but i wasn't able to optimize them more than 1 or 2 bytes
20:48:39 <calamari> trying with 10 cells.. seems than 9 was better
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20:51:27 <jix> dbc has 2 different solutions...
20:52:03 <jix> can't be that short AND so few instructions
20:52:46 <calamari> wouldn't the fewest involve long strings of +'s and -'s? :)
20:53:15 <jix> yes ... if you unroll the loops it's always shorter
20:55:20 <{^Raven^}> jix: does dbc definately have two solutions?
20:55:43 <jix> i think he does
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21:00:18 <jix> my short code executes about 1000 instructions
21:01:57 <{^Raven^}> calamari: how is your textgen coming along with the solution?
21:02:31 <jix> i submitted my solution
21:04:27 <jix> 538 must be a typo
21:04:44 <Gs30ng> guys, what character in qwerty keyboard shoud be the instruction of output?
21:04:53 <jix> i say it's impossible to do it in less than 543 executed instructions
21:05:38 <Gs30ng> does brainfuck use , or .?
21:05:51 <jix> . = output
21:07:19 <Gs30ng> in my language there's no way to distinguish what is string and what is instruction, like unlambda
21:08:37 <Gs30ng> so i must be careful about choosing characters of instruction, by picking those who aren't used that much in a string
21:09:33 <Gs30ng> OR... i can pick most-frequently-used characters like 'e' to make the language evil
21:09:43 <Gs30ng> but i don't want to, since it is already evil -_-
21:09:53 <{^Raven^}> Gs30ng: Have you considered the characters 0x00 to 0x1f and 0x7f for instructions
21:11:23 <Gs30ng> {^Raven^}, you mean, make a language with un-type-able code?
21:12:15 <{^Raven^}> Gs30ng: many editors allow these characters to be typed
21:12:23 <Gs30ng> well THAT sounds good, but i'd give up since it'll be hard only for developer (me)
21:13:06 <Gs30ng> i want ones who are in qwerty keyboard
21:13:39 <Gs30ng> wait... is my keyboard a standard qwerty keyboard?
21:14:19 <{^Raven^}> if the top row of letters reads qwertyuiop then probably yes
21:14:37 <jix> qwertzuiopü :(
21:15:22 <{^Raven^}> Any decent hex editor should allow entering text as well as control codes
21:15:51 <jix> i hate the qwertz kezbord lazout <(
21:16:14 <jix> (read: i hate the qwerty keyboard layout ;))
21:16:47 <Gs30ng> korean 2-layer based layout is printed on my keyboard
21:17:22 <Gs30ng> and i use 3-layer layout... so sometimes i stray on the keyboard, it doesn't tell me what i should press
21:18:15 <jix> i have 2-set korean 3-set korean 390 sebulshik GongjinCheong Romaja and HNC Romaja
21:18:38 <jix> 2 Sㄷㅅ 책ㄷ무 ㅑㄴ 려ㅜㅜㅋ!
21:18:52 <jix> ㅕㅓ ㅔ채ㅕㅅ ㅁ ㅕㅗㅕㅅ ㅏㄷ쎠ㅐ
21:19:07 <jix> that was: 2 set korean is funny
21:19:15 <jix> 3 set korean is even funnier
21:19:43 <Gs30ng> korean keyboard layout market(or something) is hell
21:20:31 <Gs30ng> jix: 2 set(2 layered) layout is like qwerty, changing only keys of roman characters
21:21:04 <jix> 모 ㅐㅏ 솜ㅅ ㄷ테ㅣ먀ㅜㄴ ㄷㅍㄷㄱㅋ소ㅑㅜㅎ
21:21:16 <jix> ㄱㄷ미ㅣㅋ 해ㅐㅇ 새 ㅏㅜㅐㅈ 솜ㅅ
21:21:28 <jix> ㅑ|ㅇ ㅠㄷ ㅣㅐㄴㅅ 쟈쇄ㅕㅅ ㅏㅜㅐ쟈ㅜㅎ 소ㅑㄴ
21:21:42 <Gs30ng> try to use your two hands by turns
21:21:55 <Gs30ng> like, use left hand, then right hand, then left hand
21:22:11 <Gs30ng> you'll see a 'full' character built
21:22:31 <jix> but the words i type arn't distributed (no different word please) like that
21:23:11 <Gs30ng> you mean you are typing english on the 2 layered layout?
21:23:35 <Gs30ng> 모 ㅐㅏ 솜ㅅ ㄷ테ㅣ먀ㅜㄴ ㄷㅍㄷㄱㅋ소ㅑㅜㅎ
21:23:40 <Gs30ng> ah ok that explains everzthing
21:23:55 <jix> yes but i'm used to qwertz so swap z and y
21:24:03 <Gs30ng> reallz good to know that
21:24:16 <Gs30ng> i|d be lost without knowing this
21:24:28 <jix> (german layout)
21:24:41 <Gs30ng> why are z and y swapped in qwertz?
21:24:51 <jix> because it's called qwertZ
21:25:04 <Gs30ng> and are they the only swapped roman character keys?
21:25:07 <lament> qwertz lazout is funnz... you crayz germans
21:25:23 <jix> my first line is qwertzuiopü+ my 2nd asdfghjklöä# my 3rd is <yxcvbnm,.-
21:25:35 <jix> and my special chars are double different because it's german and a mac layout...
21:25:36 * {^Raven^} guesses that it is down to Z being more common than Y in the relevant language
21:25:52 <jix> yes we don't use y at all
21:26:08 <lament> my first line is ',.pyfgcrl/=\ my 2nd is aoeuidhtns- and my 3rd is ;qjkxbmwvz
21:26:46 <Gs30ng> my first line is ㅅㄹㅕㅐㅓㄹㄷㅁㅊㅍ
21:26:58 <jix> let's try some other kb layouts
21:27:03 <Gs30ng> well, exactly, ㅅㄹㅕㅐㅓㄹㄷㅁㅊㅍ([
21:27:06 <{^Raven^}> lament: What keyboard layout are you using?
21:27:11 <jix> ज्ो धजबत षक तजषकररर िययपक ागफफह ायच कगचभ
21:27:24 <jix> इक बफहयफभ बलिभ तय चभबम तजषक)
21:28:15 <jix> «قلا فاهس هس قهلاف فخ مثبف!
21:28:29 <jix> (Arg this is right to left)
21:29:04 <jix> Ершы дщщлы сщщд вщуыте ше?
21:29:58 <jix> ธ้รห รห อำพผ ดีืืผ ะน ผนี แฟืฅะ รทฟเรืำ ้นไ ดีืืผ ะ้รห รห
21:31:10 <jix> שׁעשןמ רןעיא אם ךקכאץץץ איןד ןד הקרז דאופןג
21:31:13 <Gs30ng> I've come up to a new esoteric language today
21:31:38 <Gs30ng> I named it Random, stands for R & O Machine
21:32:19 <Gs30ng> First time i thought R & O should be Reading & Overwriting, but now it seems Retarded & Outrageous or something
21:34:09 <Gs30ng> well, after i complete the spec, maybe someone who read the spec can be burst upon by a good idea what should R & O be... anyway i'm working on the spec
21:34:32 <Gs30ng> and damn what should be a character of output instruction?
21:35:15 * {^Raven^} ypc.o a Ekrpat t.fxrape nafrgyvvv (Eep!)
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21:39:05 <{^Raven^}> R&O Machine... Hmmm... Reasearch & Obfuscation machine?
21:41:17 <Gs30ng> see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_machine
21:48:08 <Gs30ng> the names are similar, although Random language isn't related to that machine
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22:00:10 <kipple> Keymaker: I can't get kbfi.b to work :(
22:00:28 <kipple> does it require something particular of the interpreter?
22:00:44 <Keymaker> what kind of problem do you have?
22:00:52 <kipple> I just get an endless loop
22:01:31 <kipple> it works fine directly on the bfi interpreter
22:01:47 <Keymaker> ok ok, but give me the hello world :)
22:01:52 <kipple> hmm. it has several line breaks. is that a problem for kbfi?
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22:03:49 <Keymaker> notice that the interpreter requires a lot computational power
22:04:04 <kipple> yeah, but not like hours to do hello world...
22:04:17 <Keymaker> the "infinite" loop you're getting is just because the interpreter is doing calculations
22:04:40 <Keymaker> i'm myself running it on ~2ghz
22:04:50 <kipple> I'll try it on another interpreter
22:05:02 <Keymaker> do so, it could even be some interpreter problem
22:07:30 <kipple> hmm. worked fine in my own interpreter
22:08:19 <Keymaker> urban's interpreter crashed when running it
22:08:27 <Keymaker> it must be an interpreter problem
22:08:42 <kipple> it worked on several others.
22:09:30 <kipple> but I don't see why it won't work with Urban's
22:10:15 <kipple> any other interpreter and you could just say it's its fault... :)
22:11:49 <kipple> must be the loop handling in bfi.c. everything else is pretty straight forward
22:12:45 <kipple> but Urban uses recursion to do the loops, which I haven't seen anyone else do...
22:13:15 <Keymaker> there's something causing problems
22:15:02 <Keymaker> in urban's interpreter, that is
22:16:37 <Keymaker> works perfectly in dbc's other brainfuck interpreter too.. and those should be 100% valid :)
22:16:56 <kipple> perfectly with two of mine as well
22:17:24 <kipple> but Urban's works well with other programs....
22:17:33 <Keymaker> maybe the program is too large?
22:18:04 <Keymaker> i really don't know.. it's rather strange that other interpreter run it perfectly and as supposed to
22:18:30 <kipple> the source buffer is 5000 bytes. should be enough
22:19:51 <Keymaker> p seems to be the instruction pointer
22:19:59 <kipple> yeah, you have to modify it to if( p<0 || p>5000) to make it work
22:20:40 <kipple> otherwise you get RANGE ERROR
22:20:58 <Keymaker> yes, because the program pointer gets larger than 100
22:21:11 <kipple> I've set it to 5000 and don't get range errors
22:21:25 <Keymaker> program solved. thanks for pointing out :)
22:21:35 <kipple> actually it should be >=5000
22:22:09 <kipple> solved? what do you mean? did you get it to work?
22:22:31 <kipple> no, I just don't get range errors
22:22:42 <kipple> but it still enters an infinite loop
22:22:52 <Keymaker> then it's urban's interpreter doing something wrong
22:23:45 <Keymaker> since i've ran it on 100% valid brainfuck interpreters and in no point of execution the instruction pointer goes below zero in them
22:24:38 <kipple> you expect 0 on EOF, right?
22:25:02 <kipple> it never finishes reading the code
22:27:34 <Keymaker> glad to hear the mystery is revealed
22:29:10 <kipple> that's what we get for always assuming 0 on EOF ;)
22:29:32 <Keymaker> well, i'm assuming eof = no change ;)
22:29:57 <Keymaker> but make my programs work with eof = 0 implementations as well
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23:01:18 <{^Raven^}> Keymaker: What if the program input contains NUL?
23:02:07 <kipple> then that is the last input character
23:02:34 <kipple> that problem goes for all bf implementations
23:04:14 <{^Raven^}> also when EOF is no change what happens when the input contains two concurrent identical characters, like the ls in hello?
23:05:09 <kipple> when you use no change for EOF, it is common to set the cell to a certain value (like 0 or -1) before reading
23:10:58 <Keymaker> no change should mean that the cell will not get a new value
23:11:46 <Keymaker> but notice, this interpreter of mine returns 0 on eof always..
23:12:18 <Keymaker> (that is of course if the bf interpreter you're running kbfi.b returns no change or zero..)
23:18:01 <kipple> hehe. ptmbsg.b is pretty cool, but VERY slow on kbfi :)
23:21:18 <Keymaker> it gets really slow after a few steps
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00:51:38 <GregorR-L> I CAN'T STAND THE PRESSURE ANY MORE!
00:52:09 <GregorR-L> Mock and degrade me all you want *sob*
00:53:19 <GregorR-L> Can't you love me for who I am *runs sobbing into the corner*
00:53:48 <GregorR-L> I'm still me, I'm still Gregor, I just ... use Konqueror!
00:54:05 * kipple mocks himself too as he doesn't use firefox either
00:54:51 * GregorR-L tries to determine how to react to that within the metaphore of homosexuality ...
00:55:40 <GregorR-L> Somebody'll read the logs and get it *shrugs*
00:56:26 <kipple> you mean the "coming out" part?
00:56:57 <GregorR-L> And the "can't you accept me for who I am" "I'm still me, just with Konqueror"
00:57:11 <kipple> ok. didn't get that reference or whatever
00:57:27 <GregorR-L> Clearly my subtle comedy is too subtle X-P
00:57:31 <kipple> as long as you don't use Internet Explorer you're ok :)
00:58:08 <GregorR-L> I'd really have to go out of my way ...
01:00:00 <{^Raven^}> Firefox is a pretty lame file explorer, even on *nix.
01:01:08 <GregorR-L> I'm not talking about file exploring.
01:04:11 <kipple> firefox is not very good for that either I'm afraid
01:06:12 <GregorR-L> kipple being the resident expert ;)
01:07:41 <lament> speaking of gay, i want a flute
01:09:02 <GregorR-L> Hey now, that's a terrible stereotype.
01:09:31 <GregorR-L> Not terrible because it's a stereotype, just terrible because it's not even really a commonly accepted or used stereotype.
01:11:41 <kipple> GregorR: I thought everyone knew that all instruments that are not distorted electric guitars are gay
01:12:28 <kipple> and even they are gay if they are not played really loud
01:13:17 <GregorR-L> I guess I'm twice-over musically gay then.
01:13:54 * {^Raven^} says that if it feels good... Do It!
01:14:41 <GregorR-L> On the note of music, I shall arbitrarily post a link to http://www.codu.org/music/GRegor-op8.ogg
01:15:45 * {^Raven^} can't play oggs until the weekend :((
01:16:30 <lament> op8? You have published works?
01:16:39 <kipple> a bit more on topic: riddle: what's the gaiest logical operator
01:17:07 <lament> kipple: xnor or whatever it's called?
01:18:21 <kipple> hint: it's not widely used in mathematics and computing
01:19:16 <lament> i still think i'm right
01:19:50 <GregorR-L> lament: Depends on your definition of "published"
01:20:16 <kipple> lament: what's so gay about XNOR?
01:20:44 <lament> kipple: it only works when both arguments are of the same sex
01:22:07 <lament> GregorR-L: is that an actual piano? sounds a bit weird
01:22:48 <GregorR-L> lament: And part of why it sounds a bit weird is that there was a bit of line noise, and the noise removal sort of fuzzied the sound.
01:23:35 <{^Raven^}> GregorR: What tool do you use to remove the noise?
01:23:46 <GregorR-L> Audacity's "noise remove" function ^^
01:24:28 <lament> is it mostly improvised?
01:24:49 <GregorR-L> I just can never play something without f***ing up :-P
01:28:28 <{^Raven^}> GregorR: I recommend CoolEdit (aka Adobe Audition) for recording and cleanup.
01:28:45 <GregorR-L> If it's not Open Source, I'm not going to be using it.
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02:22:55 <calamari> blah I was all set with "re" :)
02:29:48 <ihope> Negative infinity = positive infinity
02:30:10 <ihope> Negative infinty = -1/0 = 1/-0 = 1/0 = positive infinity
02:30:23 <GregorR-L> Though that's a very good point :-P
02:30:49 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
02:30:51 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
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02:31:41 <calamari> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.bf
02:32:49 <calamari> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.b
02:33:05 <EgoBot> Hangman started! Type /msg EgoBot `!hangman <word>' to start a game!
02:40:10 <GregorR-L> You know, it won't work if you have those `'s there ;)
02:40:34 <calamari> GregorR: and you claim to use linux? :)
02:41:20 <calamari> but you're right, it should be `! ... '
02:41:48 <GregorR-L> I'm not sure what that first remark has to do with anything ....
02:41:56 <GregorR-L> And to be specific, I claim to use GNU/Linux ;)
02:42:36 <GregorR-L> From a purely technical standpoint.
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03:00:18 <GregorR-L> Hooray for terrible network connections -_-
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04:00:43 <Sgeo> Bye all. Restarting X so maybe I can focus on what needs to be done.
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07:38:02 <GregorR> I think I need another beret ... maybe one that's not such a normal color.
07:44:26 <jix> http://www.gavle.to/~m.jansson/programming/Resultat.html << !!
07:44:41 <jix> moin GregorR
07:45:38 <jix> GregorR: get a brushed-metal beret ;)
07:46:43 <jix> any progress on c2bf?
07:47:11 <GregorR> You people are so impatient ;)
07:47:21 <GregorR> I'm working on lvalues and array-type pointer dereferencing.
07:47:35 <GregorR> None of that is committed to CVS yet, but I'm working on my end.
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10:07:59 <jix> moin nooga
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14:21:56 <Gs30ng> ok i'm almost done with R & O Machine implementation
14:22:01 -!- Gs30ng has changed nick to uvanta.
14:25:15 <lirtzy> R&O Machine - random i found
14:35:19 <puzzlet> Random AND Obfuscated Machine
14:37:18 <uvanta> puzzlet, what you say!!
14:37:47 <uvanta> nooga, Random, R & OM, standing for Regenerating & Overrunning Machine
14:39:40 <nooga> http://nooga.kewlnet.int.pl/cms/ does it look good?
14:39:40 <uvanta> http://gs30ng.exca.net/usg/KlutzyVsPuzzlet
14:40:19 <uvanta> nooga, no. because i can't read polish
14:40:50 <nooga> i mean: the layout
14:41:41 <uvanta> quite good job, if you designed it
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16:13:55 <nooga> where was that c2bf decription?
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18:14:04 <Uvanta> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Random
18:14:22 <Uvanta> somebody can fix my humble english
18:14:29 <Uvanta> somebody can prove it turing-complete
18:42:00 <kipple> Uvanta: how do you get rid of values on the stack?
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20:33:10 <Uvanta> and sorry, but yet there's no way to get rid of an element without printing it
20:39:14 <Uvanta> i'm thinking about contrieving turing completeness without <>
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08:26:45 <nooga> GregorR: where do you have this c2bf spec in pdf?
08:27:49 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/c2bf.pdf
08:27:56 <GregorR> That's a bit out of date though >_>
08:37:55 <GregorR> The biggest diff is that all the multi-cell stuff is now a postprocessing step :P
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08:41:06 <nooga> last updates were 5 days ago
08:57:52 * nooga is translating Pink Floyd's lyrics
08:58:36 <nooga> into Polish, Pink Floyd was English !
08:59:11 <nooga> i don't think i understand "Footfall softly in the pines "
09:06:24 <nooga> they mean that there is a sound of walking from the pine wood?
09:06:43 <nooga> or maybe someone steps carefully in the pine wood?
09:07:07 <GregorR> Hmm, out of context, all that is is a grammatically incorrect, meaningless phrase.
09:07:30 <GregorR> If the words "I hear" are before it, it would be grammatically correct ...
09:09:10 <lament> where's that from? I don't remember that line
09:09:40 <GregorR> <-- terrible person to ask about anything involving any sort of art or otherwise right-brained activity.
09:10:41 <nooga> http://teksty.org/p/pinkfloyd/cryingsong.php
09:11:10 <Uvanta> I'm working on my new simple language named Random
09:11:40 <lament> nooga: and footfall is the sound, yes.
09:12:03 <lament> what album is that song from? more?
09:14:02 <lament> i don't know anything about that album
09:14:08 <lament> because my geography teacher stole my CD :(
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09:15:46 <nooga> i've got it on big, black disc
09:16:05 <GregorR> Those big funky CDs from way-back-when.
09:16:24 <nooga> from the beggining of UNIX epoch :D
09:16:50 <GregorR> At the VERY BEGINNING OF TIME unless you take advantage of the sign bit X-P
09:18:08 <GregorR> And then ... the conversation died.
09:18:21 <Uvanta> Conversation Killa GregorR
09:19:12 <GregorR> agent_J: Heh, we're talking about music. referring to vinyl records ;)
09:20:03 <agent_J> I have couple of vinyl records
09:21:01 * nooga has got "Caldera linux" by evil SCO :D
09:21:20 <nooga> I plan to ritually destroy it
09:21:27 <GregorR> Post-SCO Caldera, not pre-SCO Caldera?
09:22:33 <GregorR> Pre-SCO Caldera was actually sort of OK X-P
09:22:46 <agent_J> I used to have Caldera linux CDs
09:23:27 * agent_J and nooga are going to make ritual destruction of caldera cd
09:25:52 <agent_J> GregorR: are you the author of bf2c ?
09:26:16 <GregorR> No, but I am the author of c2bf.
09:26:35 <GregorR> Well, that's a significant enough difference that I feel entitled to be stingy :P
09:27:02 <agent_J> I've read that paper about bf2c
09:27:21 <GregorR> If you'd like, I can write BF2C, it'll take about ten minutes ;)
09:27:35 <nooga> that was a misprint
09:28:08 <agent_J> Some time ago I wanted to code c2bf
09:28:14 <agent_J> but I wanted to write gcc backend
09:28:33 <GregorR> I ultimately decided against GCC, since it makes some assumptions that aren't really BF-compatible.
09:29:09 <agent_J> unless you write some cpu emulator on top of bf
09:30:17 <nooga> agent_J: but you've almost written gcc backend for nosense... haven't you? (http://regedit.risp.pl/nosense/)
09:30:39 <agent_J> I mean it generates valid code
09:30:50 <agent_J> but I haven't tested it with nosense assembler
09:31:15 <agent_J> I'll have to use gcc 4 instead of 1.42
09:31:24 <nooga> tat screenshot looks very nice: http://regedit.risp.pl/nosense/gfx/scr/linux1.png
09:31:32 <kipple> GregorR: you should include a BF2C compiler with C2BF. then one could compile back and forth a couple of times and get really obfuscated BF code... :)
09:31:49 <GregorR> You mean "ridiculously slow"
09:32:18 <kipple> isn't that the case anyways?
09:32:39 <agent_J> those programs would be impossible to crack
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10:01:25 <nooga> agent_J is good hacker
10:01:52 <nooga> he wrote an OS that can work on multiple machines connected into network
10:01:59 <nooga> as well as on one pc
10:03:24 <nooga> http://agentj.kewlnet.int.pl/images/sense_irc.png
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13:59:47 <jix> no one is here....
14:26:02 -!- nooga has joined.
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14:55:43 <nooga> what was your homepage?
14:56:05 <jix> i don't have a homepage
14:57:02 <nooga> can i ask you for a little favour?
14:58:23 <nooga> http://nooga.kewlnet.int.pl/cms/ << could u make a screenshot under MacOS ?
14:58:32 <jix> all browsers?
14:58:47 <jix> (safari firefox opera ie mac)?
15:06:39 <jix> nooga: www.harderweb.de/jix/screens.zip
15:07:07 <jix> seems to be fine on all browsers except opera
15:07:33 <jix> and it's fine on IE mac... but no one uses IE mac
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15:13:13 <kipple> strange. looks fine in my Opera. But that's under windows though
15:13:37 <jix> the gradient at the top is broken.
15:14:41 <kipple> ah, yes. that happens here too
15:14:46 <kipple> didn't notice at first
15:15:03 <kipple> the logo is positioned too far down in Opera
15:17:10 <nooga> and i have problems with bottom border of the box on the left
15:17:46 <nooga> it's PAIN to make div based page completely compliant
15:18:15 <jix> nooga: oh and your layout is broken under lynx ;)
15:18:20 <kipple> I don't see anything wrong with IE win here
15:19:01 <kipple> I mean, I don't see anything wrong with your page in IE. But IE itself is another matter.....
15:19:04 <nooga> kipple: under IE on win bottom border of menu is cut by 2px on the left and shifted to the left
15:19:22 <nooga> without any logical reason
15:19:34 <nooga> tried many ways to avoid it ;|
15:21:07 <kipple> strange though, that our two IEs should differ
15:23:34 <nooga> heh, i'm going to play RRobots xD
15:24:38 <jix> nooga: you aren't going to beat my robot
15:24:57 <jix> i won THE ULTIMATE RRobots competition ;)
15:25:14 <nooga> that's only because you're HAL
15:25:21 <jix> i forgot that...
15:25:33 <jix> kipple: program a robot that kills all other robots
15:26:10 <jix> http://rubyquiz.com/quiz59.html << here is the competition page
15:26:19 <nooga> hm... which one? shooting station?
15:26:52 <jix> it isn't in the tracker or forum
15:27:00 <jix> take a look at the quiz page
15:27:08 <jix> it's linked under quiz solutions
15:27:47 <jix> but it's 500 lines of code in size....
15:28:29 <jix> but it has 5 comments so it should be easy to understand ^^
15:29:43 <nooga> i see only some packed thingy
15:29:52 <nooga> http://www.ruby-talk.org/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/172687
15:29:54 <jix> yeah thats mail encoding
15:30:35 <jix> do you have openssl on your computer? (command line)
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15:32:07 <jix> if you have openssl on your computer you can decode it to the original zip file using openssl enc -d -a < file.zip.b64 > file.zip
15:32:07 <nooga> i guess i have, but i'm under M$ EvilOS(tm) atm
15:32:33 <jix> or try to save it as a file with extension .mime or .b64
15:32:50 <jix> maybe some compression program you have installed is able to read that...
15:32:54 <jix> or some mail client
15:33:17 <nooga> downloaded all solutions
15:34:16 <jix> but i didn't expected to win..
15:35:21 <nooga> they always say it
15:35:37 <jix> there is rubber duck in the solutions right?
15:35:41 <jix> its #2 or so...
15:35:55 <jix> i talked alot with its developer during writing my bot
15:36:08 <jix> (but i didn't had his code and he hadn't my code)
15:36:28 <jix> and he said he beats all publicated bots (was true)
15:36:35 <jix> but i wasn't able to do that
15:36:44 <jix> well i wasn't able to do that in my tests
15:37:04 <jix> so i thought his bot would beat mine
15:46:33 <nooga> hehe i'm working on own, natural language
15:56:30 <Uvanta> nooga: you mean auxlang or something?
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17:02:21 <jix> anyone here seen keymaker?
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18:13:38 <jix> where is keymaker?
18:14:18 <jix> i think i'll do some rhotor programming
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20:17:48 <SimonRC> Will someone tell him to check out #conlang?
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21:42:35 <Keymaker> jix: you had something to tell, sir?
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00:07:27 <GregorR> Now TODAY has been full of EXCITING conversations on #esoteric and ##brainfuck!
00:08:48 <jix> GregorR: yeah i got 4MB of logfiles
00:09:19 <jix> (after converting them to bf code and converting that bf code from 32 to 8 bit (twice)....)
00:09:48 -!- jix has left (?).
00:12:25 <calamari> GregorR: lots of traffic.. not sure why
00:18:39 <calamari> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/8511
00:19:29 <calamari> downloading ethereal, it's supposed to be able to tell me something
00:19:59 <calamari> even if I'm not hacked, whatever this is is wasting my bandwidth.. hehe
00:23:11 <calamari> seems to have stopped now.. heh
00:28:39 <kipple> that means it's probably someone on #esoteric as he stopped when he heard he was noticed... ;)
00:57:56 <fizzie> That tcpdump output looks much like a normal SSH connection (with some interactive program running) to me.
01:10:35 * GregorR released a new version of Giki today ... it's awesome ^^
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02:00:40 <GregorR> Hmm, think I should add "Talk:" pages to Giki?
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08:06:17 <GregorR> 'lo nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooga
08:07:32 <nooga> and it inspired me to write something like it by myself
08:08:05 <GregorR> I didn't even write Giki by myself X-P
08:08:10 <GregorR> It's based on another project.
08:10:59 <nooga> i'll try to write mine by myself
08:11:47 <GregorR> It's not that it's a particularly difficult thing to do *shrugs*
08:11:56 <GregorR> Though your time would be better invested writing plugins for Giki ^^
08:15:43 <nooga> mediawiki is very nice
08:16:11 <GregorR> *bleh bleh bleh your project sucks Gregor bleh bleh bleh*
08:16:54 <nooga> i can make a skin for giki
08:17:27 <GregorR> Pff, that's simple, just edit template.html
08:18:24 <GregorR> What's your native language?
08:19:16 <GregorR> You could translate Giki >:)
08:19:21 <nooga> i could translate, sure
08:19:31 <GregorR> Just copy language.en.php to language.pl.php and edit the strings.
08:20:08 <nooga> i'll checkout from CVS
08:29:21 <nooga> hehe, i think i will change something more in your giki ;>
08:32:07 <GregorR> If you can do it as a plugin, that would be preferable >_>
08:57:20 <nooga> no, i'll modify the core to split up presentation from data and i will migrate to xhtml
09:00:22 <nooga> what is "tis true." ? ;p
09:02:29 <GregorR> In response to that first comment: "Ow."
09:02:42 <GregorR> In response to the second one: It's just sort of a filler phrase.
09:03:05 <GregorR> Something like "Indeed." would work fine, it's just to keep the mood light XD
09:03:55 <GregorR> So, first off, what do you mean by "split up presentation from data"?
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09:26:58 <nooga> $revhistory = "<b>Historia zmian</b>";
09:27:09 <nooga> formatting in config!?!!?
09:27:48 <GregorR> Hmm, that's a bit ... odd.
09:28:05 <GregorR> I think that might be a carry-over from "Wiki!"
09:28:37 <GregorR> Easy enough change though *shrugs*
09:28:39 <nooga> $bar_prefix = "<ul><li>";
09:28:40 <nooga> $bar_separator = " </li><li> ";
09:28:40 <nooga> $bar_postfix = "</li></ul>";
09:29:12 <nooga> taken language settings to config.php from language.php
09:30:26 <GregorR> What exactly are you doing ...?
09:34:08 <nooga> hm improving giki, making my own version.. . xD
09:34:36 <GregorR> Please submit patches back so I can shuffle through them and get rid of the ones I don't like X-P
09:47:37 <nooga> i won't dare putting my changes to cvs
09:48:16 <GregorR> Well, you couldn't put 'em in Giki CVS anyway.
10:13:05 <nooga> left menu should be in php
10:13:24 <nooga> to enable it to be multilanguage
10:14:47 <GregorR> Umm, multi-language as in translated at runtime?
10:15:02 <GregorR> (IE Spanish for one user, German for another, Polish for another ...)
10:15:08 <nooga> <li><a href="index.php"><?php print $index; ?></a></li>
10:15:09 <nooga> <li><a href="upload.php"><?php print $upload; ?></a></li>
10:15:09 <nooga> <li><a href="login.php"><?php print $login; ?></a></li>
10:15:09 <nooga> <li><a href="adduser.php"><?php print $adduser; ?></a></li>
10:16:41 <GregorR> Anywhere in template.html, you can put "$node[SomeTitle]" and it will put an actual wiki node there.
10:16:47 <GregorR> That way, you can make it editable in the wiki.
10:16:56 <GregorR> That's the ultimate solution, but not feasable for the builtin template.
10:17:22 <nooga> but php in template des not execute
10:18:05 <GregorR> template.html is not executed as PHP, it's parsed.
10:20:30 <GregorR> Well, just put "$node[LeftBar]" in where the left <ul>...</ul> is, you will be pleasantly surprised.
10:21:04 <nooga> "This document is empty"
10:21:23 <GregorR> Well, you have to put some content there too X-P
10:22:22 <nooga> why does "all nodes" button is in top bar?
10:22:33 <nooga> shouldn't it be on the left?
10:22:54 <GregorR> Heheh, I wasn't very picky about where I put things ^^
10:25:02 <nooga> now, how to make list of links?
10:25:49 <GregorR> Are you using GikiWikiSyntax?
10:28:44 <GregorR> You know, this is all in README ;)
10:29:36 <GregorR> Then you're not using GikiWikiSyntax.
10:29:56 <GregorR> config.php has a $plugins line
10:30:03 <GregorR> $plugins = array("noHTML", "GWS");
10:30:15 <GregorR> Or if you want to allow HTML, you can take off the "noHTML" part :)
10:31:18 <GregorR> There ya go, a conveniently editable leftbar.
10:32:17 <nooga> it can't parse polish letters xD
10:32:41 <GregorR> I don't see why not ........
10:32:51 <jix> nooga: are you using utf8?
10:32:59 <jix> i think php's default working charset is iso-latin-1
10:33:30 <GregorR> But IIRC, that shouldn't matter, since this is just pass-thru.
10:34:17 <fizzie> Well, the headers obviously need to match the content.
10:34:40 <nooga> my stupid sister wants me to end
10:34:54 <nooga> i'll never hack if i can sit here only 3 hours -.-'
10:34:58 <GregorR> Anyway, time for sleep for me.
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10:35:15 <jix> gn8 GregorR
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12:22:04 <SimonRC> ("< nooga> hehe i'm working on own, natural language")
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17:12:11 <jix> moin wooby
17:13:45 <wooby> whats new and cool in esoteric languages
17:14:42 <wooby> been out of the loop for awhille
17:15:26 <jix> do you know glass?
17:16:51 <wooby> yeah, i'm down with glass
17:18:34 <jix> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Glass << this glass?
17:24:03 <jix> wooby: when was the last time you checked esolangs?
17:30:04 <jix> linguine is pretty new but maybe not that new...
17:30:11 <jix> rhotor is really very new
17:31:37 <SimonRC> wooby: oh, BTW, there is a ##brainfuck, now (sic)
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19:33:39 <SimonRC> any why are you on IRC as root?
19:40:04 <jix> BodyTag: your ident
19:40:20 <SimonRC> """-!- BodyTag [n=root@216-169-189.0504.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #esoteric"""
19:40:24 <jix> my ident isn't my username too
19:41:07 <SimonRC> I assume you're on a Windows box.
19:41:40 <SimonRC> So, you are most likely an admin.
19:41:52 <jix> but there are many identds that allow you to set any ident response
19:41:55 <BodyTag> Oh right, my user account is called root. XD
19:42:46 <BodyTag> And yes, I'm using Windows.
19:43:13 <SimonRC> you have a sense of humour
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21:45:43 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:45:45 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
21:46:25 <ihope> !trigger MMMaaakkkeee iiittt ssstttoooppp!!!
21:46:59 -!- jix has left (?).
22:01:24 <BodyTag> Hm... Does the EgoBot brainfuck interpreter support input?
22:01:37 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
22:02:36 <ihope> !i 1 Hello, world!
22:04:14 <BodyTag> !i 1 Is the bfi still running?
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22:05:58 <BodyTag> Yeah, right after trying that I saw the eof command you sent D:
22:21:02 <BodyTag> !bf >,----------[>,----------]<[.[-]<]
22:21:39 <BodyTag> Guh, forgot to add 10 afterwards.
22:22:06 <BodyTag> Oh, the joys of programming in brainfuck.
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23:37:35 <GregorR> n=gregor@tor/session/x-651fa1a77eed377f < Gregor is on TOR now ^^
23:38:20 <GregorR> It's a privacy/censorship-prevention network.
23:38:34 <GregorR> Since my building logs all my connections still.
23:39:11 <calamari> so tor encrypts traffic and decrpts remotely for you?
23:39:32 <GregorR> After going through some random end node.
23:39:38 <GregorR> Which has no correlation to me.
23:41:06 * calamari just finished his income taxes.. so much for the boston tea party :(
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23:47:50 <calamari> if they are ever going to do a free tax software, it seems like some kind of custom wiki would be the way to go
23:50:43 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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23:55:40 <ihope> ...Hey, Gregor left his Ego behind!
23:56:14 <ihope> I guess that means that he was GrrR when he was away.
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02:29:12 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
02:29:14 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
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03:26:16 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:26:18 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
03:28:40 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:28:42 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
03:28:53 <kipple> heh. Gregor was disconnected but EgoBot is still here...
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10:05:09 <nooga> ircing on root? ;p
10:05:23 <BodyTag> Heh, I got that question yesterday too.
10:07:10 <BodyTag> I'm on Windows, and I called my account root for some reason.
10:08:14 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
10:08:16 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
10:12:44 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
10:14:09 <SimonRC> nooga: a couple of days ago: "< nooga> hehe i'm working on own, natural language"
10:14:27 <SimonRC> nooga: have you checked out #conlang?
10:15:07 <BodyTag> What language is bch? bitchanger?
10:31:32 <SimonRC> you said you were making a spoken lang (a opposed to a programming lang)
10:32:11 <nooga> me a sallas do sopp
10:32:34 <SimonRC> Did you know about the channel #conlang?
10:32:41 <SimonRC> Just the place for that sort of thing.
10:32:45 <nooga> no, just joined :>
10:49:32 <BodyTag> !trigger BBBaaahhh,,, III'''lll nnneeevvveeerrr gggeeettt ttthhheee hhhaaannnggg ooofff BBBiiitttCCChhhaaannngggeeerrr...
10:49:36 <EgoBot> Bah, I'l never get the hang of BitChanger.
10:56:49 <SimonRC> erm, befunge isn't installed on egobot
10:57:31 <BodyTag> Then why is it listed in the help? :'<
10:59:22 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
10:59:23 <SimonRC> !bf +++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>++++++++>+++++<<<<-]>------.>.>.>--.
11:08:21 <BodyTag> Qdeql = Quick and Dirty Esoteric Queue-based Language, right?
11:10:47 <BodyTag> ... Slow and Clean != Quick and Dirty
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13:13:21 <nooga> you are norwegian, right?
13:16:45 <nooga> i know cute girl from Osteroy
13:18:56 <kipple> I have I feeling I should know where that is, but I can't remember...
13:20:30 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
13:21:14 <EgoBot> Use: eof <pid> Function: send EOF to a process
13:22:01 <EgoBot> Use: ls [dir] Function: list a directory in the pseudofilesystem
13:22:07 <EgoBot> bf/, glass/, linguine/
13:22:49 <nooga> kipple: i think it would be nice to say something in Norwegian to her;p
13:23:44 <kipple> I can translate if you want
13:24:08 <BodyTag> Say "Jeg kan ikke norsk, så jeg ble lurt av noen til å si dette her, uten å vite hva det betyr."
13:25:22 <nooga> nothing comes to my head atm ;p
13:26:30 <nooga> BodyTag: what does it mean?
13:26:56 <BodyTag> "I don't know norwegian, so I was tricked into saying this, without knowing what it means."
13:27:45 <nooga> Nie znam norweskiego wic nabraem si mwic co czego nie rozumiem :D
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13:29:08 <kipple> that's not the worst thing to be tricked into saying ...
13:30:16 <BodyTag> Does the bf interpreter work now, by the way?
13:31:16 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
13:31:16 <nooga> [14:31] <EgoBot> !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
13:31:31 <nooga> now it doesn't work
13:32:22 <SimonRC> grr, lost my game of Lost Kingdom
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20:55:34 <jix> !bf8 +[+.]
20:55:55 <ihope> Um, what did nooga do?
20:56:00 <jix> bf8 isn't harmfull
20:56:04 <jix> !bf16 +[+.]
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20:56:56 <jix> i thought it's possible to kill it
20:57:05 <ihope> I think !flush does something.
20:57:13 <ihope> Either that, or it does nothing.
20:57:46 <ihope> I only killed processes 33 and 35.
20:57:56 <ihope> ...Or did I kill 68 processes?
21:00:51 <GregorR-S> Time to see if Tor can allow me to connect to my home compy ...
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21:02:43 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:02:45 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
21:02:54 <jix> where is rhotor?!
21:03:36 * jix feels slaughtered
21:03:44 * ihope feels unslaughtered
21:03:57 <GregorR-S> ihope: A cool little privacy network :)
21:04:06 <jix> GregorR-S: why don't you add rhotor?
21:04:28 <GregorR-S> jix: Because nobody's suggested it X-P
21:04:34 <GregorR-S> Are you officially suggesting it now?
21:05:12 <jix> there are cool infinite output rhotor programs too ;)
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22:52:28 <ihope> Hey, watch what this IRC client can do:
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00:26:01 <GregorR> WORST PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE EVER
00:26:43 * kipple comforts Java. There there....
00:27:05 <GregorR> * Java spits in kipple's face ('cuz that's what it does. It draws you in with it's underdogness then rapes you of your dignity)
00:28:16 <GregorR> In case you couldn't tell, I'm doing my homework for my Java class right now X-P
03:35:39 <calamari> ahh Java.. what a great language! :)
04:00:41 <GregorR> calamari: If I have an abstract class a, and I have an instance of a class a, can I tell which derived class type it is?
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05:03:53 <calamari> how can you have an instance of an abstract class? they can't be instantiated
05:06:57 <calamari> you can extend an abstract class, or implement an interface
05:08:43 <calamari> not sure what derived class means tho.. looking that up hehe
05:13:11 <calamari> still not sure exactly what you're asking.. but perhaps instanceof is what you're looking for?
05:16:41 <GregorR> Yeah, it was intanceof X-P
05:20:06 <GregorR> Pay MONEY for a book on a language I hate?!
05:22:40 <calamari> *shrug* don't see the big problem with Java :)
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05:47:01 <calamari> here's a palindrome: Roger, Gregor
05:48:36 <calamari> ahh thanks amazon.. search inside this book == give me the entire book for free online
05:49:07 <calamari> it's actually quite handy for doing homework problems
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07:44:42 <nooga> hi, i've got 6 hours today
07:44:57 <GregorR> Good, I'm going to sleep in 15 minutes X-P
07:45:18 <nooga> i'm going to go to my friends internet cafe in town near mine
07:45:19 <GregorR> I just logged into Sourceforge and discovered something very very sick about myself X-D
07:45:33 <GregorR> Guess how many projects I'm a developer on.
07:45:49 <GregorR> Damn you people and your high guesses X-P
07:46:33 <GregorR> One is dead officially, one is dead unofficially, one is a no-update, write-it-once sort of thing ...
07:46:40 <nooga> i'm on 0 since SenseOS died
07:48:12 <nooga> it was so nice, own oo gui, non massive kernel (so every module could run on other machine), realtime, booted in 10 secs, POSIX ohohooh
07:48:54 <nooga> lemme recover my password ;p
07:50:14 <GregorR> Oh, by the way, I figured out what my "idea" behind UTF8 languages was.
07:50:25 <GregorR> The thing to set its output to UTF8 should be in language.whatever.php
07:50:40 <GregorR> So it'll use UTF8 if necessary, not if not.
07:51:02 <GregorR> Not sure if I agree with my own wisdom there X-P
07:51:41 <nooga> i already did that
07:53:44 <nooga> ok, you can add 'nooga' to the giki project if u wany
07:54:26 <GregorR> I will once I get through. My connection is being very slow...
07:54:46 <GregorR> By the way: Feel free to muck around with Giki's CVS all you want, but don't add any features without running them past me first.
07:54:54 <GregorR> The #1 goal of the core is to be minimal.
07:54:58 <GregorR> The #2 goal is to be expandable ^^
07:57:25 <GregorR> (Umm, unless that feature is a translation :) )
07:59:55 <nooga> automatic list of contents would be possible as a plugin? ;p
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08:01:08 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Kingdom
08:01:23 <nooga> gray box with <b>Contents</b> [hide]
08:01:37 <GregorR> Yeah, that's certainly possible.
08:03:41 <GregorR> (Giki has a VERY robust plugin system, by the way)
08:05:29 <nooga> ok, is thare a documentation?
08:05:44 <nooga> i can write a doc as a giki :D
08:05:52 <GregorR> Meagre? Meager? Whatever :P
08:06:06 <nooga> ask me you native english guy ;p
08:06:36 <GregorR> http://giki.sourceforge.net/?title=plugin%20system
08:07:16 <nooga> it's meager, i've checked ;p
08:08:10 <nooga> so highlighting different language sources will be also a render plugin
08:09:08 <nooga> source highlighter ;p
08:10:01 <GregorR> By the way, I think the easiest way to do a TOC plugin would be to look for instances of <h1>, <h2>, etc, add <a name='blah'></a> before them, then just tack your TOC to the top.
08:10:08 <GregorR> That way, it's not specific to GikiWikiSyntax.
08:10:24 <GregorR> I of course mean "most powerful way" ^^
08:11:16 <nooga> i'll write it today
08:12:05 <GregorR> Put it in the GikiPlugins module in CVS if you put it anywhere :)
08:12:19 <GregorR> And take out the bit that says they were all written by me X-P
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08:43:03 * GregorR just discovered another installation of Giki and is asking the author for his language.fi.php :)
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11:06:31 <nooga> GregorR: are u sleeping?
11:09:29 <nooga> i think that's yes ;p
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11:28:46 <nooga> GregorR: wake up ;p ;p
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13:08:53 <nooga_> i'm in a internet cafe
13:33:42 <nooga_> http://nooga.kewlnet.int.pl/giki/index.php?title=Strona%20Glowna
13:33:51 <nooga_> check out the Tiki brand Giki Wiki
13:36:13 * SimonRC agrees with GregorR about Java.
13:43:04 <nooga_> how do you like giki layout ?
14:09:18 * SimonRC curses Sun for providing online docs only as PDFs
14:09:23 <SimonRC> (Oooh lookie! A page break right in the middle of the bit I want to read! Aren't PDFs just brillant (sic) for online viewing!)
14:11:55 <nooga_> giki wikis will be the best form of online publishment
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15:20:54 <nooga_> little quiz: 2+2 is: a) 5, b) 12, c) 11, d) 101, e) 111, f) 1111
15:55:24 <jix> 2 is 50 (ascii) and 50+50 == 100 and 100 is d
15:56:23 <jix> '2'+'2' == 'd'
15:56:30 <nooga_> i know what doyou mean
15:56:42 <jix> why OMG? then?
15:56:53 <nooga_> very complicated solution
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16:11:10 <nooga_> it's simple: it's day here!
16:11:37 <nooga_> so i can be on irc 6 or even 8 hours
16:11:42 <nooga_> http://nooga.kewlnet.int.pl/giki/index.php?title=Strona%20Glowna
16:12:31 <GregorR> That's a very nice layout ^^
16:12:42 <nooga_> ul is screwed up, renders </ul></ul> at the end of list
16:12:45 <GregorR> Shows what you can do when you have more skill at layouts than I do X-P
16:13:54 <nooga_> http://nooga.kewlnet.int.pl/giki/index.php?title=Strona%20Glowna
16:14:18 <GregorR> Unfortunately I haven't the time to look into it right now ...
16:14:22 <GregorR> Time for 11 hours of classes.
16:14:37 <GregorR> 9AM-8PM ... yaaaaaaaaaay >_>
16:15:24 <GregorR> I was referring to fixing GWS ;)
16:15:49 <nooga_> i'll fix that up by myself
16:16:40 <GregorR> If you smash the Double-/ul problem, commit that to CVS (and make sure you update the ChangeLog with an entry CVS:\n\t-Whatever)
16:18:50 <GregorR> Whoooooooooooooooot /me collapses from lack of sleep.
16:28:45 <GregorR> Thanks for your help with Giki, nooga[_]!
16:29:51 * SimonRC finds out why one doesn't run bots as root: http://bash.org/?477397
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18:56:10 <jix> moin calamari
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03:54:51 <GregorR> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/5YaZwz29.html
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07:26:55 <fungebob> yea everybody else is having sex right now
07:27:55 <GregorR> Freenode users ... having sex.
07:28:47 <calamari> no sex for me.. have to wait a bit after a baby is born for things to heal
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10:13:18 <calamari> I cannot figure out how to handle the input side of this
10:14:51 <calamari> which is really sad.. it seems like it should be as easy as is_the_other_side_the_pipe_blocking_waiting_for_input()?
10:15:21 <calamari> supposedly select or poll does this, but it is confusing to the extreme
10:20:35 <calamari> heh, wrong channel.. oh well :P
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12:40:10 <nooga_> undestroyable session :D
12:57:03 <SimonRC> DIE DIE DIE FOUL UNDEAD PROCESS SCUM!
12:57:33 * SimonRC spend valentines night with a load of other geeks, two of which were givving a talk about Cryptography, and a talk about the Internet.
12:57:54 <SimonRC> Plus eating birthday cake, as today (15th) is my birthday.
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13:05:21 <nooga_> !sadol :i0@<:i+i15!",224Happy birthday SimonRC!
13:05:25 <EgoBot> Happy birthday SimonRC! Happy birthday SimonRC! Happy birthday SimonRC! Happy birthday SimonRC!
13:07:09 <SimonRC> Yeah, SADOL rocks, even if it isn't a functional lang. (kick, kick)
13:07:33 <nooga_> pheh, little lambda function will finish it ;p
13:08:25 <SimonRC> SADOL has *issues* with HoF, due to the syntax.
13:08:34 <nooga_> yes, and making function a type
13:09:31 <nooga_> well, sadol 2 will be fuunctional i think
13:10:22 <nooga_> ~x2(... will be :x~2(... and then )x{args}
13:11:00 <SimonRC> Won't support currying, though.
13:11:15 <SimonRC> Currying is the major area of winnage of Haskell over LISP.
13:11:56 <nooga_> sadol is stupid, i'm working on something better
13:13:18 <SimonRC> That would be a good AI project, program layout algos for Funges.
13:13:55 <SimonRC> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/Shakell/
13:14:05 <SimonRC> Doesn't do IO yet, though.
13:14:25 <SimonRC> Wrote most of it in one 4hr hacking session, IIRC.
13:14:36 <SimonRC> Too busy now with "real work".
13:18:14 <nooga_> are there some programs in shakell?
13:21:09 <SimonRC> It is more-than-slightly inspired by SADOL
13:21:24 <nooga_> oh, really nice to hear this
13:21:44 <SimonRC> also Unlambda ('" syntax), LISP (cona and nil), and Haskell (pattern-matching).
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14:46:19 <jix> keymaker wasn't here for 3.5 days...
15:09:29 <nooga> jix: how to read file lines into aray in rb?
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15:16:40 <fizzie> Heh, in Perl you'd write "@a = <FILE>;".
15:17:10 <fizzie> I assume it has one of the shortest ways to do that.
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15:18:58 <Keymaker> i thought you were older than me!
15:19:09 <Keymaker> but seem to be about 3.5 years younger
15:21:33 <Keymaker> jix: heh, at least someone noticed my absence :)
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17:36:26 <SimonRC> Keymaker: Where did you get my DoB from?
17:36:39 <Keymaker> you mentioned it in the logs :p
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19:46:56 <jix> moin Keymaker
19:47:32 <jix> are you going to run a competition soon?
19:48:20 <GregorR-L> Oh I see, you only have interest in talking to Keymaker :P
19:48:20 <GregorR-L> The rest of us are all just unimportant.
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19:57:18 <jix> GregorR-L: no .. is there anything new about c2bf?
19:57:39 <jix> yeah /me too
20:01:05 <jix> Magnus (the guy who ran the last bf compo) should check and answer his emails....
20:04:33 <Keymaker> but i'm not really sure at all whether the idea is good or not
20:05:11 <Keymaker> perhaps it'd be best to make some harder task such as "write a brainfuck program that calculates and prints out its own md5 hash"
20:05:55 <calamari> hopefully that's impossible, right? :)
20:05:57 <Keymaker> but of course not, that'd be insane and way too difficult
20:06:19 <Keymaker> that kind of program is possible, though :)
20:06:35 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/selfmd5.py
20:07:00 <Keymaker> although using python's md5 is a bit cheating as i did :p
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20:09:39 <Keymaker> well, of course it's *possible* in brainfuck but impossible for me to write
20:13:33 <calamari> shortest numeric input, supporting backspace
20:14:13 <calamari> so you type 123 (enter), and the cell holds 123
20:14:34 <calamari> or if it was too big it would need to split it
20:14:59 <Keymaker> well, what does 'shortest' mean then, in this case?
20:15:46 <calamari> probably not the greatest idea, but something that could be used in bfbasic
20:16:05 <calamari> I have one, but it is currently broken
20:16:13 <calamari> perhaps it's better to just debug it :)
20:16:33 <Keymaker> i can't think at the moment how i would write one..
20:16:37 <calamari> it would be cool to implement crypto tho
20:16:55 <jix> i was thinking about it
20:16:58 <Keymaker> what? the program you mentioned?
20:17:04 <calamari> I implemented XTEA in linguine
20:17:10 <jix> aes or how it's called
20:17:35 <calamari> give it data and key, output AES encrypted block
20:17:48 <calamari> it'd be one block in, one block out
20:17:55 <calamari> so that should keep things simple
20:18:52 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard
20:19:41 <jix> well you can't compress each block independ from the next afaik.. (key schedule)
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20:20:38 <calamari> we'd only need to compress one block
20:20:52 <calamari> that's enough to know it works
20:20:53 <jix> but that's boring
20:21:10 <jix> well probably it isn't.... (boring)
20:21:32 <calamari> yeah, no need to try to make an entrie app out of it
20:21:43 <calamari> then you get into all sorts of issues
20:22:32 * calamari suggests 128 bit key and 128-bit block size
20:26:40 <calamari> wow, that's really complicated
20:26:50 <calamari> maybe a simpler cipher is better
20:27:06 <Keymaker> i was just going to say that it's not going to be easy to implement in brainfuck
20:27:41 <calamari> I hesitate to suggest XTEA, but it is much simpler, with example c code available
20:27:52 <calamari> perhaps there are other simple ones too
20:28:06 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTEA
20:31:39 <calamari> rc5 is simple too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC5
20:33:18 <jix> there is a decss in bf
20:33:54 <Keymaker> i entirely forgot that.. i guess that is an encryption
20:34:14 <jix> yeah and afaik decss is illegal (at least in some countries)
20:34:57 <Keymaker> at least they sued the guy that broke it or something
20:37:42 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowfish_%28cipher%29
20:39:24 <calamari> and the article keeps talking about how slow it is, which doesn't sound good for bf
20:39:24 <Keymaker> most of them are complicated in bf
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20:47:07 <jix> you know the guy who build a computer out of transistors and eeprom chips?
20:47:32 <Keymaker> hasn't gregorr something like that in his university?
20:47:42 <Keymaker> or perhaps i remember something that has been never said..
20:48:10 <jix> oh wait it's a german page...
20:48:26 <Keymaker> hmm, then it's not the same i guess
20:48:48 <jix> http://mycpu.mikrocontroller.net/index2.htm
20:48:52 <jix> klick on fotos
20:48:55 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZ77_and_LZ78_%28algorithms%29
20:49:05 <jix> i'd like to do that too ^^
20:49:38 <jix> lz** without huffman is likely to grow the output (afaik)
20:49:42 <Keymaker> i wish i could do something like that
20:50:23 <jix> i think i'd be able to design such a system but i wouldn't be able to build it
20:50:59 <Keymaker> i would have no idea where to begin :9
20:51:06 <Keymaker> i don't know anything about electronics
20:51:25 <jix> i know how to build things out of simple digital gates
20:51:39 <calamari> cool, he even made a basic for it :)
20:51:53 <jix> he is able to run c64 basic programs
20:52:30 <Keymaker> what are simple digital gates?!
20:52:47 <calamari> that keyboard enter key sure looks weird :)
20:54:08 <calamari> or are eurpoean keyboards like that?
20:54:10 <jix> enter or return?
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20:54:51 <jix> oh your enter is called return here
20:55:01 <jix> and that key on the numblock is called enter
20:55:04 <calamari> and its either rectangular, or shaped like ="
20:55:13 <jix> yeah i often say enter too
20:55:35 <jix> it has the same effect (except in some obscure programs)
20:55:47 <jix> yeah it's shaped "| here
20:56:07 <jix> depends on the operating system
20:56:21 <jix> (when using DE layout)
20:57:14 <jix> when using US layout it's the key next to return in the middle line
20:57:34 <Keymaker> i get backslash from a key on right to 0 if i hold right alt and press it..
20:58:16 <Keymaker> some keys are difficult to press, same goes with { }
20:59:02 <jix> yeah those keys are different on the mac (in DE layout)
20:59:15 <jix> i have \ on alt-7 (alt isn't used as a command key)
20:59:36 <jix> {} on alt 8 and 9 () on shift 8 and 9
20:59:41 <jix> [] on alt 5 and 6
20:59:52 <jix> (that's annoying when coding obj-c)
21:00:09 <jix> {} are very easy to hit but [] is really wrong on alt-5/6
21:00:36 <jix> wait \ is shift-alt-7
21:00:49 <jix> (on the us apple keyboards alt is called option)
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22:26:09 <calamari> well, everything seems to work except that writes to stdout much be flushed
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08:14:19 <nooga> http://www.the-vampires.com << a friend of mine wrote a MMORPG via WWW
08:14:38 <nooga> with realtime PvP using AJAX
08:15:39 <nooga> but it's in Polish :>
08:18:33 <GregorR> I'm mostly disinterested in games anyway.
08:19:11 <GregorR> Any luck on the TOC plugin? ^^
08:21:22 <GregorR> Oh, and also, could you commit your polish translation to CVS?
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15:41:08 <nooga> i've got numbers: 5 8 12, how to find greatest number which cannot be obtained by adding theese numbers?
15:46:20 <lindi-> nooga: there's no such thing (unless you limit it to integers)
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04:07:11 * Arrogant hasn't made anything remotely esoteric in months, yay.
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04:19:16 <Arrogant_> I hate how Paragon is taken on this serve.
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04:21:03 <Amiable> Me: /msg nickserv info paragon
04:21:05 <Amiable> 20:23:58 -- NOTICE NickServ: The nickname [Amiable] is not registered
04:21:11 <Amiable> Oh, OK, that's ... irrelevent.
04:21:50 <Amiable> 20:24:53 -- NOTICE NickServ: Last Seen: 43 weeks 6 days (9h 5m 55s) ago
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07:16:58 <GregorR> I JUST FOUND ANOTHER INSTALLATION OF GIKI >_O
07:19:51 <GregorR> All within the span of about two weeks, mind you.
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08:20:45 <kipple> Gregor: congrats :) looks like your plan to take over the world is on track
08:22:42 <GregorR> lol - bizarrely, that's basically precisely what a friend of mine online said X-P
08:24:03 <GregorR> It's just weird ... it must have been posted somewhere, or something like that.
08:24:05 <GregorR> But I can't find the source.
08:24:16 <GregorR> There's no way that it exploded with popularity for no particular reason.
08:30:01 <kipple> well, googling for giki wiki gives more than 800 results... though many are not relevant
08:30:49 <GregorR> What was the other one ...
08:32:22 <GregorR> Didn't help much though ;)
08:33:50 <kipple> you should include some unique meta keyword in the HTML that you can search for ...
08:34:43 <GregorR> I've heard that suggestion too ... seems sort of subversive to me.
08:34:49 <GregorR> I guess it isn't particularly.
08:35:25 <kipple> yeah, it is a bit subversive perhaps
08:35:58 <kipple> btw, what was that norwegian giki you mentioned?
08:37:16 <GregorR> Lemme reget the link - incidentally, they don't seem to have translated the UI.
08:37:35 <GregorR> http://guc.no/horten/giki/index.php?title=media
08:38:23 <kipple> why should they? norwegians understand english
08:38:39 <GregorR> Umm, if you say so *shrugs*
08:43:12 <GregorR> Hmm, searching for "edit.php?title=index" brings up a lot of "Wiki!" wikis (Wiki! is the predecessor to Giki)
08:45:06 <GregorR> Unfortunately, it's often difficult to differentiate between a highly modified "Wiki!" and Giki...
08:45:33 <GregorR> If it exists, it's "Wiki!" :P
08:55:06 <GregorR> "index.php?hist=index" gets exclusively Gikis, but is a bit restrictive ...
08:55:45 <GregorR> OK, no more of that, to sleep with me :-P
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13:01:02 * SimonRC suggests RSA for the compo.
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20:53:02 <GregorR> So many people, so little conversation XP
20:58:22 <lament> lalalalala blab blab blab
20:59:45 <jix> there is a lot of conversation on ##brainfuck
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23:47:27 <ihope> A bowl of spaghetti...
23:49:05 <GregorR> All your spaghetti are belong to us.
23:50:35 <calamari> all your spaghetti are belong to ME!! :P
23:50:48 <ihope> Un tazón de espaguetis.
23:51:19 <ihope> What happen? What happen? Somebody set up us the bomb, somebody set up us the bo-omb...
23:51:43 <ihope> We... get signal! Wha-ha-hat? Main screen turn on, main screen turn o-o-on...
23:52:03 <GregorR> Yay, the rhapsody rawks :)
23:52:08 <ihope> Main screen turn on! (We get signal...) Main screen turn on, main screen main screen main screen turn on!
23:53:21 <ihope> It's you, it's you, it's you it's you it's you. How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! You are on the way to de-e-e-estructi-on!
00:00:30 <ihope> I still haven't figure out what those two guys are saying when they both talk at the same time...
00:00:49 <GregorR> Cats: All your base are belong to us.
00:01:01 <GregorR> Captain: Main screen turn on what you say?
00:03:09 <ihope> I heard it as "make your base are belong to us".
00:03:32 <GregorR> Try muting the left and/or right speaker ;)
00:03:49 <ihope> "the left xor right speaker"...
00:04:10 <ihope> Have any non-hackers ever used that in normal speech?
00:09:29 <ihope> Ecitsuj taerg rof!
00:11:40 <EgoBot> Runtime error: invalid output format (result was not a number)
00:12:12 <SimonRC> "4\L-jo0r~8@$3_4r3-8e\0n6~+o_u5!~!"
00:12:20 <ihope> It's still running?
00:14:10 <SimonRC> "All your base are belong to us!"
00:16:58 -!- jix has left (?).
00:17:21 <ihope> [89,111,117,32,104,97,118,101,32,110,111,32,99,104,97,110,99,101,32,116,111,32,115,117,114,118,105,118,101,32,109,97,107,101,32,121,111,117,114,32,116,105,109,101,46]
00:18:14 <SimonRC> 48657820697320626574746572
00:19:00 <ihope> SimonRC: what's that?
00:20:22 -!- ihope_ has joined.
00:20:44 <ihope_> Grumble grumble ipconfig /renew grumble.
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00:51:04 <ihope_> getLine >>= (putStrLn . runprog)
00:52:20 <ihope_> So where's me Shakell spec?
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01:01:31 <SimonRC> ihope_: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/Shakell
01:01:49 <SimonRC> I assume you count the IRC logs as a spec.
01:02:11 <SimonRC> If not, then there is none, except the interpreter itself.
01:04:05 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
01:04:08 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
01:21:37 <ihope_> Um, s/runprog/runProg/ in that whatever.
02:15:09 <ihope_> Zoo Tycoon 2, that is.
02:29:51 <ihope_> Unlambda's c function is useful for simulating time travel and detecting causality, maybe.
02:30:15 <ihope_> Just toss the continuation into some "this is a continuation" value.
02:30:34 <ihope_> If you need the "this is not a continuation" value, bang, you got causality.
02:31:16 <ihope_> If, however, you actually figure out what the "this is not a continuation" value is, you just apply the continuation to it... bang.
02:32:17 <ihope_> If you need the "this is a continuation" value, I suppose that means you have a "multiple realities" error.
02:32:41 <ihope_> Causality = nothing works, multiple realities = multiple things work.
02:32:48 <ihope_> You want one thing to work.
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02:45:15 <graue> I had a great idea
02:45:40 <graue> I think we should loosen up the ontopicness requirements of the esowiki and allow other languages to be mentioned, such as Lisp and Haskell
02:45:56 <graue> it's only a natural development since these languages were major influences in many esolangs, so we might as well have information on them
02:46:04 <ihope_> It's your wiki... isn't it?
02:46:10 <graue> no, it belongs to the community, duh
02:46:26 <ihope_> Well... you have control over it, don't you?
02:46:28 <graue> (yes, I administer the site, but that doesn't give me carte blanche to make changes people don't like)
02:46:49 <graue> that is not the issue here
02:47:09 <graue> I just want to know if you folks -- not just ihope_, anybody here -- think this should be done or if it's stupid
02:47:26 <GregorR> I would agree with it on the condition that there's some sort of distinction.
02:47:37 <graue> personally, I think the line between esolangs and non-esoteric languages is somewhat arbitrary
02:47:53 <ihope_> "Conventional:" namespace?
02:47:55 <graue> I mean, Forth is a real, serious language, but if I'm programming in it it's usually because I find it fun and weird and different, y'know?
02:48:01 <GregorR> My personal opinion is that the distinction should be by intention.
02:48:24 <ihope_> GregorR: that's my position too, but I don't really have anything to back it up with.
02:48:30 <graue> then there's, like, Backus's FP and FL, which seem rather esoteric, but were invented for serious purposes too
02:48:55 <GregorR> Yeah, the line is definitely blurry.
02:48:59 <graue> GregorR: by the designer's intention, yes, definitely
02:49:07 <ihope_> I wouldn't oppose a wiki page for, say, BANCStar.
02:49:34 <graue> although, worst-case, that could in practice end up reducing to "were they a member of the esolang community or not"
02:50:24 <graue> thought: If Chris Pressey invents a language to demonstrate a new idea, it's an esolang; if John Backus does so, it's FP, a "conventional" language?
02:50:33 <graue> that could clearly result in bogus distinctions
02:51:21 <graue> and speaking for myself, I *have* gotten ideas about conventional programming from esolangs
02:52:24 <ihope_> Esolang got me hooked on functional programming.
02:52:37 <GregorR> OH GOD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
02:53:02 <ihope_> I take it you don't like functional programming...
02:53:06 <graue> ihope_: me too, possibly, indirectly, as esolangs were the way I was exposed to it
02:53:25 <graue> nobody doesn't like functional programming; some are just ignorant of it
02:53:43 <GregorR> I've used functional programming languages.
02:53:51 <ihope_> Maybe English is a functional programming language.
02:53:56 <GregorR> At one point I could write fairly decent Haskell.
02:53:58 <graue> GregorR: you're not ignorant, you were joking
02:54:18 <ihope_> I mean, "lengthy" could be a function with type Noun -> Noun
02:55:34 <graue> programming in Lojban could be something interesting
02:56:59 * ihope_ posts something somewhere
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03:01:06 <graue> it would be cool if you could do stuff like "fac n = n * fac (n-1)" and not use lots of stack, because the runtime, each time it recurred, saw that the next thing to do waiting on the stack was a multiplication and the task it was adding to the stack was also a multiplication, and simplified the multiplications into one
03:01:18 <graue> i.e., compiler makes functions tail recursive for you
03:02:00 <graue> I had this insight while thinking about SMITH and copying instructions forward in memory
03:15:14 <graue> someone has probably already invented this though, or something better that makes it obsolete; anyway, bye
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05:46:07 <calamari> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.b
05:46:19 <EgoBot> Hangman started! Type /msg EgoBot `!hangman <word>' to start a game!
05:46:31 <EgoBot> _______ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
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12:03:40 <nooga> i wish it was and universal xhtml renderer written by w3c
12:05:41 <nooga> ! ++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row"2">
12:06:28 <nooga> :j:i0@<:j-j14!++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row"2">
12:06:36 <nooga> !sadol :j:i0@<:j-j14!++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row"2">
12:07:55 <nooga> !sadol :j:i0@<:j+j14!++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row"2">
12:07:57 <EgoBot> <tr class="hi row"><tr class="row"><tr class="hi row">
12:09:29 <nooga> !sadol :C$3"1A"1B"1C:j:i0@<:j+j14!++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row"++2">#Cj"5</tr>
12:09:31 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Cannot evaluate number in compilation time (index: 80, row: 1, col: 81)
12:10:06 <nooga> !sadol :C$3"1A"1B"1C:j:i0@<:j+j14!++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row++"2">#Cj"5</tr>
12:10:09 <EgoBot> BDSM: Executing: Cannot extract element from list with '#' on index: 3 - index out of bounds (list size: 3) (index: 70, row: 1, col: 71)
12:10:22 <nooga> !sadol :C$4"1A"1B"1C"1D:j:i0@<:j+j14!++",211<tr class="?:i-1i"6hi row"3row++"2">#Cj"5</tr>
12:10:23 <EgoBot> <tr class="hi row">B</tr><tr class="row">C</tr><tr class="hi row">D</tr>
12:11:04 <nooga> i'm working on a mod_SADOL for apache
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20:10:27 <ihope> How many underscores is that? Four?
20:58:35 -!- EsoBot has joined.
21:01:03 <ihope> How's EsoBot work, again?
21:01:34 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
21:01:45 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://localhost/ls/dirs'.
21:01:57 <calamari> not running apache .. one sec :)
21:02:23 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b helloum.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b
21:05:17 <ihope> E!bf file://bf/helloum.b
21:08:33 <calamari> E!bf file://bf/++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
21:08:58 <calamari> so I've obviously used some other crappy syntax for local files
21:09:40 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/helloum.b
21:10:35 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/hangman.b
21:10:36 <EsoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EgoBot !hangman <word>' to start a game!
21:11:40 <EsoBot> _____ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
21:12:01 <EsoBot> Invalid character: `@'. Try again!
21:12:49 <calamari> it's not as smart as Gregor's daemon thing :)
21:13:39 <EsoBot> _____ |-:(<-< [etaoin]
21:14:05 <EsoBot> ___s_ |-:(<-< [etaoin]
21:14:19 <EsoBot> gypsy |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE!
21:15:23 <EsoBot> ________ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
21:17:21 <EsoBot> quixotic | :)>-< YOU WIN!
21:17:45 <EsoBot> |-------_-<-< ____! ___ ____! | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
21:18:22 <calamari> is that what you gave it, or bug?
21:19:01 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< ____! ___ ____! | []
21:19:26 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< ____! ___ ___E! | []
21:19:48 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< O___! _O_ _O_E! | []
21:19:57 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< OU__! _OU _O_E! | []
21:20:07 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< OUC_! _OU _O_E! | []
21:20:17 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< OUCH! _OU _O_E! | []
21:20:27 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU _O_E! | []
21:20:37 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU _OSE! | []
21:20:47 <EsoBot> |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE! | :)>-< YOU WIN!
21:21:18 <ihope> OUCH YOU LOSE YOU WIN
21:22:27 <EsoBot> _______ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
21:25:18 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/hangman-EsoBot.b
21:25:19 <EsoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EsoBot <pid> <word>\n' to start a game!
21:25:36 <EsoBot> _______ | Type `E!<pid> <guess>\n' to guess a letter!
21:31:10 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++[>+++>+<<-]>+++[<,.>.>.<]
21:31:19 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
21:31:49 <calamari> yeah, that's what I thought.. not even an eof is given
21:34:33 <calamari> E!bf +++++[>++++++>+<<-]>+++[<,.>.>.<]
21:34:54 <calamari> E!bf +++++[>++++++>++<<-]>+++[<,.>.>.<]
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21:38:46 <ihope> E!bf +++++[>++++++>+<<-]>+++[<,.>.>.<]
21:39:38 <ihope> They seem to work the same, except that this one didn't spawn a fungebob.
21:43:32 <calamari> hmm.. I wonder how many valid & unique (in result) programs there are that use each bf char exactly once
21:47:25 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
21:52:39 <calamari> E!bf +[>-,.<] (many char echo)
21:54:11 <ihope> Indestructible loopy thing?
21:56:21 <EsoBot> Killed 3: Out of memory.
21:57:21 <calamari> hmm, I suppose that is slightly different as it allows exit
21:57:21 <ihope> Outputs 1-bytes until it recieves a 0 :-P
21:57:57 <calamari> dunno if that will print anything on here
21:59:53 <EsoBot> Invalid character: `@'. Try again!
22:04:19 <calamari> what do you call that.. broken caesar cipher? :)
22:09:57 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
22:12:27 <calamari> it was probably buffering all those o's
22:12:50 <calamari> since the repeated ,'s make the other ones flush
22:13:36 <calamari> so that one doesn't work.. ok :)
22:14:24 <calamari> 8! = 40320.. but not all of those are valid
22:14:50 <EsoBot> Memory pointer position out of range: -1
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23:49:29 <calamari> Gregor wrote EgoBot because nobody wanted to port their language interpreters to Java :)
23:50:40 <calamari> EgoBot has nice features tho.. so I haven't bothered to keep EsoBot up to date will all the daemon, trigger, etc stuff
23:54:28 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/hangman-EsoBot.b
23:54:30 <EsoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EsoBot <pid> <word>\n' to start a game!
23:54:51 <EsoBot> _______ | Type `E!<pid> <guess>\n' to guess a letter!
23:57:02 <EsoBot> _a___a_ |-:(<- [etnsc]
23:57:22 <EsoBot> _all_a_ |-:(<- [etnsc]
23:59:12 <EsoBot> _all_a_ |-:(<-< [etnscp]
00:08:00 <EsoBot> hallway |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE!
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04:29:54 <GregorR-L> That's quite the collection of underscores I have X-P
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12:33:41 <nooga> GregorR: how's c2bf?
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19:41:29 <ihope> Is 384|2&+|_|0$|-|+4|2e/\/\0/\/\3|-|+|)|\|4$3\/0&0|2083|-|+3|23\/\/`/$/\/\1/\/\|_|_4384\/\/3|-|+|\|13|_8/\/\1&|)|\|43|2`/&|)1|)$3\/0+`/|-|+1|_$3|-|+|)|\|4&1|_|_1|28$4\/\/+ a good password?
19:43:13 <ihope> Aww. I knew it was too short...
19:43:36 <jix> yeah it's unsafe it it's < 1mb
19:43:56 <jix> and you should use the full unicode set
19:44:31 <BodyTag> nono, if you don't use the full unicode set, it's less likely people will guess it, cause it's not a good password.
19:44:42 <BodyTag> and people expect you to have a good password.
19:44:47 <jix> yeah use about 50% of it
19:48:11 <ihope> Okay. password.txt is 168 bytes.
19:48:27 <ihope> password.7z is 237 bytes.
19:48:42 <ihope> Somehow I feel that this compression thing didn't really "work".
19:50:57 <ihope> Now, compression with BF-D would be better, except that BF-D is little more than an idea right now.
20:17:28 <SimonRC> ah: "ebargtuo shtar emom eht dna sevogorob eht erew ysmim lla ebaw eht ni elbmig dna eryg did sevot yhtils eht dna gillirb sawt"
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21:16:25 <ihope> Um, where'd darcs plop all this stuff?
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22:21:28 <ihope> I was going to create my own all-purpose bot.
22:21:49 <ihope> I'll do it, eventually :-P
22:23:37 <ihope> I think I'll just grab this file here...
22:25:38 <ihope> Then again, I think I'll need a lot more than that.
22:27:26 -!- EsoBot has joined.
22:28:31 <EsoBot> Invalid command `ping'.
22:28:42 <ihope> I'll consider that a "pong".
22:30:11 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/hangman.b
22:30:12 <EsoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EgoBot !hangman <word>' to start a game!
22:30:27 <calamari> we need some new games.. guess I should finish that encryption system :)
22:31:03 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/hangman-EsoBot.b
22:31:04 <EsoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EsoBot <pid> <word>\n' to start a game!
22:32:13 <EsoBot> _____ ___ __ _________ __________ __ _____. | Type `E!<pid> <guess>\n' to guess a letter!
22:32:26 <EsoBot> _____ a__ __ _____a___ __a_a_____ __ A____. | []
22:32:58 <EsoBot> __e_e a_e __ _____a__e __a_a__e__ __ A____. | []
22:33:16 <EsoBot> __ere are __ _r___a__e __ara__er_ __ A____. | []
22:33:21 <ihope> Hmm, it seems to come with some free boochage.
22:33:31 <ihope> It contains the digits 5 and 9.
22:33:35 <EsoBot> _here are __ _r___a__e _hara__er_ __ A____. | []
22:33:53 <calamari> ihope: it hides letters and numbers
22:34:08 <EsoBot> There are __ _r__ta__e _hara_ter_ __ A____. | []
22:34:24 <EsoBot> There are __ _r__ta__e character_ __ A_C__. | []
22:34:40 <EsoBot> There are __ _r__ta__e characters __ ASC__. | []
22:34:57 <EsoBot> There are __ _ri_ta__e characters i_ ASCII. | []
22:35:05 <calamari> unfortunately it's running on a 16-bit interpreters.. that's why its so slow :)
22:35:14 <EsoBot> There are __ _rinta__e characters in ASCII. | []
22:35:39 <EsoBot> There are __ printa__e characters in ASCII. | []
22:35:56 <EsoBot> There are __ printab_e characters in ASCII. | []
22:36:14 <EsoBot> There are _5 printab_e characters in ASCII. | []
22:36:32 <EsoBot> There are _5 printable characters in ASCII. | []
22:36:33 <ihope> 5 printable characters in ASCII?
22:36:52 <SimonRC> Anonet is an iiiinterssting idea.
22:36:52 <EsoBot> There are 95 printable characters in ASCII. | :)>-< YOU WIN!
22:37:23 <ihope> :)>-< looks odd when you actually tilt your head to view it.
22:37:23 <EsoBot> _____ ______ | Type `E!<pid> <guess>\n' to guess a letter!
22:37:56 <ihope> That looks better.
22:38:50 <EsoBot> Ata_i _o__at |-:( [ens]
22:39:00 <EsoBot> Ata_i _o__at |-:(< [ensh]
22:39:11 <EsoBot> Atari _o__at |-:(< [ensh]
22:39:47 <EsoBot> Atari _o__at |-:(<- [enshd]
22:39:57 <EsoBot> Atari _o__at |-:(<-< [enshdl]
22:41:36 <EsoBot> Atari Combat |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE!
22:41:56 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/hangman-EsoBot.b
22:41:58 <EsoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EsoBot <pid> <word>\n' to start a game!
22:42:08 <EsoBot> _ | Type `E!<pid> <guess>\n' to guess a letter!
22:43:13 <ihope> E!1 The 2 quick 3 brown 4 fox 5 jumps 6 over 7 the 8 lazy 9 dog 10.
22:43:24 <calamari> BodyTag: was showing the new win char
22:43:36 <ihope> Lose that one for me, will you?
22:43:55 <EsoBot> ___ _ _____ _ _____ _ ___ _ _____ _ ____ _ ___ _ ____ _ ___ __. | Type `E!<pid> <guess>\n' to guess a letter!
22:43:56 <EsoBot> Invalid character: `#'. Try again!
22:44:03 <EsoBot> Invalid character: `'. Try again!
22:44:13 <calamari> pretty sure you can't lose that one ;)
22:44:17 <ihope> Hey! Those were different characters!
22:44:33 <ihope> Stick ø in, get à out...
22:45:45 <EsoBot> Invalid character: `_'. Try again!
22:45:56 <calamari> ihope: I decided it was better not to use more than one char per line
22:45:56 <calamari> I could do it the other way, it wouldn't be hard
22:46:13 <calamari> 7763 calamari 16 0 256m 14m 8208 S 92.1 3.9 15:19.31 java
22:46:20 <ihope> As far as I can see, ø is one character.
22:46:40 <ihope> What's the second one?
22:47:05 <calamari> dunno if that shows up as two now.. an A and ,
22:47:37 <ihope> Looked like A , to me, more or less.
22:47:40 <calamari> there paste the "one char" again
22:48:35 <ihope> ø looks like a slashed o.
22:49:31 <calamari> what can I say.. hangman doesn't support unicode :)
22:49:43 <ihope> E!bf ++++ ++++ ++++ ++++ [->++++ ++++ ++++ ++++<] > ,
22:50:02 <ihope> E!bf ++++ ++++ ++++ ++++ [->++++ ++++ ++++ ++++<] > .
22:51:05 <ihope> E!bf ++++ ++++ + ++++ ++++ [->++++ ++++ + ++++ ++++<] > .
22:51:17 <ihope> E!bf ++++ ++++ ++ ++++ ++++ [->++++ ++++ ++ ++++ ++++<] > .
22:52:14 <calamari> E!bf ++++ ++++ ++++ ++++ [>++++ ++++ ++++ ++++<-]>-.
22:52:51 <SimonRC> The solution would be to use a real character set
22:53:11 <SimonRC> that is, Unicode encoded with UTF-8
22:53:54 * ihope puts on some music
22:55:25 <calamari> btw is that question mark 1 ASCII char or two?
22:55:47 <calamari> I turned on /charset utf8 so I can't tell :)
23:03:01 <ihope> Oops! We just did something related to BF!
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23:09:09 <ihope> We need a language called Bobfunge.
23:11:46 <fungebob> i think its source might look like a goofy crossword puzzle
23:12:12 <ihope> Como, comes, come, comemos, coméis, comen.
23:12:31 <BodyTag> What happens if I press this button?
23:12:32 <EsoBot> No such process `bill'.
23:13:11 <ihope> Here's where it starts to get interesting.
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04:20:47 <GregorR______> How long has 'GregorR' survived with no active connection?
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06:07:27 <{^Raven^}> GregorR: Warning one more level and you'll break the underscore recursion stack on IRC 1.0 :)
06:37:52 * {^Raven^} rolls his own lexical analyser and parser. lex/flex/yacc/bison are a bit too esoteric atm
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08:01:55 <nooga> i'm building a small supercomputer from old PCs
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08:04:14 <GregorR> Because Beowulf is teh lame and OpenMOSIX is teh not ;)
08:04:55 <GregorR> Actually, I'll just predictively continue this half of the conversation.
08:05:07 <GregorR> You know, with OpenMOSIX it's in the kernel, so any app will be clusterable.
08:05:10 <nooga> cluster, of course
08:05:28 <nooga> i tried erlang/otp -.-'
08:05:44 <nooga> must check that openmosix
08:06:03 <GregorR> OpenMOSIX == best clustering solution IMHO, having used it and a Beowulfy cluster.
08:06:25 <GregorR> Sitting at an OpenMOSIX cluster is just like sitting at a computer with a whole f***ing lot of CPUs.
08:06:46 <GregorR> Sitting at a Beowulf cluster is like sitting at a single computer that it just so happens can send jobs to other computers.
08:07:42 <nooga> i've bought 16 (P100/64MB RAM) computers
08:08:15 <GregorR> I hope you plan to sink a bit more money into the network? :)
08:08:43 <nooga> as soon as i get some money
08:09:46 <nooga> i plan to put them all in a fancy closet
08:09:58 <GregorR> And then never look at them again :P
08:10:31 <nooga> but one of theese closets is even more expensive than those computers :>
08:11:35 <nooga> btw. http://home.planet.nl/~mourits/koelkast/
08:12:17 * GregorR expects to see a Giki there ;)
08:12:28 <GregorR> Oh, yes, I've seen that XD
08:14:44 <nooga> have you ever built a cluster?
08:15:43 <GregorR> I helped build an OpenMOSIX cluster.
08:15:50 <GregorR> But I wasn't particularly heavily involved.
08:18:09 <GregorR> They were each pretty decent though.
08:19:49 <nooga> i wish my cluster would run quake ]|[ on software ;p <joke/>
08:27:23 <GregorR> And now, to prove incompatible timezones, I'll go to sleep X-P
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12:51:26 <kipple> good luck with your cluster :)
12:51:47 <kipple> what kind of network are you planning to use?
12:51:49 <nooga> i don't know if i should say "thx"
12:53:17 <nooga> i think token ring, but im not expert so i'll experiment
12:57:55 <kipple> how does a cluster work? Does it appear as a single computer with 16 CPU's or as a single CPU?
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13:00:41 <nooga> [09:06] <GregorR> OpenMOSIX == best clustering solution IMHO, having used it and a Beowulfy cluster.
13:00:41 <nooga> [09:06] <GregorR> Sitting at an OpenMOSIX cluster is just like sitting at a computer with a whole f***ing lot of CPUs.
13:00:41 <nooga> [09:06] <GregorR> Sitting at a Beowulf cluster is like sitting at a single computer that it just so happens can send jobs to other computers.
13:03:21 * kipple is reading openmosix.org
13:08:52 <kipple> cool. you can mix all kinds of different computers. and add them at run time too :)
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14:47:27 <SimonRC> I found out that a lot of the stuff on freenet could get me arrested in this country :-(.
14:48:26 <SimonRC> 14 hours ago, I said: " * SimonRC goes (Thinking about: anoNet and Freenet)"
14:48:48 <SimonRC> Freenet is a cool idea, though.
14:49:34 <SimonRC> GregorR: Is tor any good? What else complements it well?
15:03:57 <SimonRC> Fortunately, a friend pointed out the (supposedly) high c**** p*** content.
15:04:25 <SimonRC> I feel that there is not enough deniability if I were to get arrested.
15:06:54 <ihope> Never would have thought that.
15:07:08 <ihope> Now I have MORE legitimate e-mails than spammy ones.
15:31:19 <nooga> gg.rb:1: Invalid char `\357' in expression
15:31:19 <nooga> gg.rb:1: Invalid char `\273' in expression
15:31:19 <nooga> gg.rb:1: Invalid char `\277' in expression
16:00:31 <nooga> i have stupid thing to solve
16:01:00 <nooga> guy says: "zxjjuuebqwnlqjjngbdpecptuxa", and you must find correct answer
16:01:17 <nooga> http://nooga.kewlnet.int.pl/zad.html
16:01:39 <nooga> i have no clue how to decrypt it
16:11:14 <ihope> Just run every possible plaintext through a compression algorithm along with the ciphertext. Whichever file is shortest contains the answer.
16:11:32 <ihope> Better compression algorithms yield better results.
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16:37:57 <ihope> So the plaintext of that one is probably "zxjñjóuuebqwnlqjójngbdpecptuxa".
16:39:07 <nooga> it's the cryptogram
16:41:33 <nooga> maybe it's atbash on polish alphabet
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19:04:06 <GregorR-L> SimonRC: Tor isn't bad, but I can't think of any reason to ues it if you don't have any immediate concern. It's a bit slow-ing and GregorR______________ says the connections are a bit unstable X-P
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15:21:39 <nooga> i'm looking for a way to check if a tree is a subtree of another
15:24:09 <SimonRC> isSubTree n m@(Node _ l r) = n == m || n `isSubTree` l || m `isSubTree` r
15:25:38 <nooga> 2 513 134 105 86 07 00 09 00 0
15:25:56 <nooga> i've got a tree in such format
15:27:06 <nooga> how to parse it in haskell to get it in a format siutable for your algo? ;p
15:29:45 <nooga> [16:26] <nooga> 2 3
15:29:45 <nooga> [16:26] <nooga> 0 0
15:29:45 <nooga> [16:26] <nooga> 0 0
15:30:05 <SimonRC> They look like lists, not trees
15:32:58 <nooga> node 1: lchild=2, rchild=3
15:33:16 <nooga> node 2: lchild=none ...
15:33:53 <SimonRC> well, you first want to read in an Integer and a list of pairs of Integers, then...
15:34:28 <SimonRC> convert the list to a Map from index to pair of Integers, then...
15:34:53 <nooga> i'm not good at haskel... eh
15:44:46 <nooga> make it compatible with: isSubTree n m@(Node _ l r) = n == m || n `isSubTree` l || m `isSubTree` r
15:45:43 <SimonRC> data Tree a = Node a (Tree a) (Tree a) | Nil
15:48:05 <SimonRC> erm, what data do you want in your trees?
15:49:44 <SimonRC> I have realised that you have no data to put in them.
15:50:45 <nooga> no data, just plain structure
15:56:10 <nooga> and how's it going?
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16:13:15 <SimonRC> what compiler do you have?
16:14:18 <jix> moin GregorR
16:15:05 <SimonRC> nooga: good, it's needed for Data.Map
16:15:08 <GregorR> *incomprehensible morning mutter*
16:15:24 <SimonRC> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZipFnd92.html
16:15:34 <GregorR> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/Hamburger.jpg
16:15:36 <SimonRC> It loads, and you example works
16:19:14 <nooga> i'm so stupid boooo -.--'
16:30:05 <nooga> how do i suppose to parse a file with this?
16:31:05 <nooga> Constructor `Node' should have 2 arguments, but has been given 3
16:31:05 <nooga> In the definition of `isSubTree':
16:31:05 <nooga> isSubTree n (m@(Node _ l r))
16:31:05 <nooga> = (n == m) || ((n `isSubTree` l) || (m `isSubTree` r))
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17:05:42 <nooga> javax.lang.stuff.for.smart.people.be.careful.lambda
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17:39:10 <SimonRC> remove the _ from the first line
17:40:07 <SimonRC> nooga: you will need to write your own parser
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18:23:01 <SimonRC> you missed nooga by 5 mins
18:26:49 <calamari> that's okay, I know nothing about haskell
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11:23:07 <nooga> i'm building ownlinux distro just for fun
11:23:53 <nooga> s/ownlinux/own linux/
11:25:14 <nooga> i'll put every possible eso interpreter in it xD
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19:23:14 <nooga> GregorR: what was the adress of your song with charming lyrics "kill yourself" etc.?
19:33:26 <nooga> i saw a funny scene in a bus today
19:33:30 <nooga> There is a guy in a bus and ticket controller standing and waiting for the guy, who is totally ingoring him.
19:33:30 <nooga> Controller: Ticket!
19:33:30 <nooga> Cont.: What trumpet?!
19:33:31 <nooga> And then discouraged controller leaves...
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21:39:38 <GregorR> nooga (who hopefully reads the logs): http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg
21:43:02 <GregorR> And in case nooga doesn't read the logs, please pass that URL along to him when he reappears X-P
23:00:25 <kipple> wasn't there a lawsuit a while back after some kid killed himself after listening to a song which said something like that?
23:01:35 <GregorR> Besides, anyone so unbelievably stupid that they'd listen to the very up-beat ridiculous Kill Yourself long and take it seriously is probably better out of the gene pool.
23:04:18 <GregorR> So, where should you not put a baby ...
23:13:10 <fizzie> I'm not sure you should put even a new one on eBay.
23:13:28 <fizzie> Even though you'd obviously get a better price if it's unused.
23:14:09 <GregorR> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=eBay
23:16:35 <kipple> haha. I like the "in orbit" suggestion
23:19:35 <kipple> so, someone stole my ebay idea. drats..
00:26:29 <kipple> GregorR: Do not put the baby on SourceForge.net
00:26:33 <kipple> http://rune.krokodille.com/sf.jpg
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00:41:17 <kipple_> how to you turn just one layer into greyscale in GIMP?
00:42:32 <GregorR> Go to that layer, layer->colors->desaturate
00:43:41 <GregorR> Umm, in "layers, channels and paths" select that layer.
00:43:47 <GregorR> Then in the menu, layer->colors->desaturate
00:43:59 <kipple_> no, I meant: how does it look now (already did it)
00:45:23 <GregorR> Damn, having troubles making a T-Shirt X-P
00:46:09 <GregorR> Hmm, it may be wise to remove the adverts, come to think of it ...
00:46:17 <GregorR> Not that I did from the eBay page X-P
00:48:32 <kipple_> ok. now I've removed the ad
00:49:18 <kipple_> but do you *have* to open each link in a new window?
00:49:59 <kipple_> all the do-not-put-the-baby pages opens in new browser tabs
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00:51:42 <GregorR> Wow, you have a particularly broken browser ...
00:52:13 <kipple_> hmm. yeah it looks like it's my browser :( (Opera)
00:52:58 <GregorR> I did that as part of my pointless effort to mask the URL (I don't want somebody copying the codu.org address out of their address bar)
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01:10:27 <GregorR> http://www.cafepress.com/donotputthebaby.48650523 ^^
01:11:40 <calamari> too bad its $19.. crazy jacked up price
01:15:01 <GregorR> kipple_: Pseudonym or real name?
01:17:00 * GregorR gently places his foot in his mouth before asking:
01:17:07 <GregorR> Is that your real name or a pseudonym? XP
01:17:55 <GregorR> OK, in that case I also know your last name but won't post it X-P
01:22:54 <GregorR> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=SF
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01:25:48 <ihope> My password's too hard to type!
01:27:54 <EgoBot> bf/, glass/, linguine/
01:29:52 <GregorR> calamari: Umm ... you regularly think about putting babies in the microwave?
01:31:44 <calamari> hmm.. hamburger, but no meat grinder
01:32:10 <GregorR> Wood chipper is a pretty similar effect *shrugs*
01:32:25 <calamari> nah, wood chipper doesn't have little strings coming out
01:34:17 <GregorR> Somewhere between wood chipper, espresso machine and paper shredder, I think it's covered X-P
01:34:56 <calamari> ahh, paper shredder.. there you go :)
01:36:44 <calamari> I wonder what makes clicking links go to a new window.. probably javascript
01:37:07 <GregorR> www.donotputthebaby.com is js-free
01:37:53 <ihope> !bf_txtgen I døñ't gët it. Plëåsë clårify.
01:37:55 <calamari> ahh sorry, was working on the wiki
01:38:26 <EgoBot> 606 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++>++<<<<-]>>>--.>++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>++++.<.>-------.>>+++++++.<++++++++++++++++.>-------.<-------------.<<.>------.-------------------------------------------------------.>>.<++.<.>>++++++++++++++.--------------.<-------------------------.<--------.<.------------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------
01:41:34 <ihope> Aww. It didn't get all the way through!
01:41:36 <ihope> "I døñ't gët it. Plë"
01:42:15 <calamari> !daemon hangman bf8 http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/hangman.b
01:44:19 <calamari> !bf8 http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/hangman.b
01:44:31 <calamari> !bf16 http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/hangman.b
01:44:58 <calamari> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.
01:45:18 <calamari> !daemon hangman bf8 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/hangman.b
01:45:28 <EgoBot> Hangman started! Type `/msg EgoBot !hangman <word>' to start a game!
01:46:08 <EgoBot> Invalid character: `'. Try again!
01:47:12 <EgoBot> _... _____! |-:( [abc]
01:47:14 <EgoBot> _... _____! |-:(< [abcd]
01:47:16 <EgoBot> _... _____! |-:(<- [abcde]
01:47:18 <EgoBot> _... _____! |-:(<-< [abcdef]
01:47:30 <EgoBot> h... shiny! |-------X-<-< OUCH! YOU LOSE!
01:47:48 <EgoBot> __ ___ ___ ___ ____ __ _____ ____ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
01:48:06 <EgoBot> __ ___ ___ __E ____ __ ___e_ ____ | []
01:48:12 <EgoBot> __ __T __T T_E ____ __ __te_ ____ | []
01:48:20 <EgoBot> __ __T __T T_E _A__ __ _ate_ ____ | []
01:48:31 <EgoBot> _O _OT __T T_E _A__ o_ _ate_ ____ | []
01:48:40 <EgoBot> _O _OT __T T_E _A__ o_ _ate_ __i_ | []
01:49:02 <EgoBot> _O NOT __T T_E _A__ on _ate_ __i_ | []
01:49:10 <EgoBot> DO NOT __T T_E _A__ on _ate_ __i_ | []
01:49:18 <EgoBot> DO NOT __T T_E _A__ on _ate_ s_is | []
01:49:30 <EgoBot> DO NOT __T THE _A__ on _ate_ s_is | []
01:49:38 <EgoBot> DO NOT P_T THE _A__ on _ate_ s_is | []
01:49:44 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE _A__ on _ate_ s_is | []
01:49:50 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE _A__ on _ater s_is | []
01:49:58 <EgoBot> Already guessed `d'. Try again!
01:50:16 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE _A__ on _ater s_is |- [l]
01:50:24 <EgoBot> Already guessed `u'. Try again!
01:50:40 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE _A__ on water s_is |- [l]
01:50:44 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE BAB_ on water s_is |- [l]
01:50:48 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE BABY on water s_is |- [l]
01:51:06 <EgoBot> DO NOT PUT THE BABY on water skis | :)>-< YOU WIN!
01:51:24 <EgoBot> ____ ______ _-_ | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
01:51:44 <EgoBot> ___e _____e _-_ |- [t]
01:51:50 <EgoBot> __se _____e _-_ |- [t]
01:52:02 <EgoBot> __se _____e _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:08 <EgoBot> _ise ___i_e _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:20 <EgoBot> Wise ___i_e _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:24 <EgoBot> Wise a__i_e _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:26 <EgoBot> Wise ad_i_e _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:28 <EgoBot> Wise advi_e _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:30 <EgoBot> Wise advice _-_ |-: [to]
01:52:34 <EgoBot> Wise advice X-_ |-: [to]
01:52:36 <EgoBot> Wise advice X-P | :)>-< YOU WIN!
01:53:30 <EgoBot> ___________________________________________,____ ______________________________________! | Type `!hangman <guess>' to guess a letter!
01:53:31 <calamari> your smiley ryhmes with the name of my least favorite os
01:53:51 <GregorR> calamari: Don't you know that that OS was named after the smiley? That's the face of an XP user.
01:53:52 <EgoBot> __________e________________________________,____ ______________________________________! | []
01:54:06 <EgoBot> __________e________________________________,____ ______________________________________! |- [a]
01:54:16 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o____________________________! |- [a]
01:54:24 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o____________________________! |-: [as]
01:54:26 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o____________________________! |-:( [ast]
01:54:48 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o________r___________________! |-:( [ast]
01:54:58 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o________r___________________! |-:(< [asti]
01:55:25 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o________r___________________! |-:(<- [astin]
01:55:38 <EgoBot> __________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o________r___________________! |-:(<-< [astinu]
01:57:06 <EgoBot> H_________e__________________________o_____,____ _________o________r___________________! |-:(<-< [astinu]
01:57:16 <EgoBot> H_________e______l_________l_________o_____,____ _________o________r______l____________! |-:(<-< [astinu]
01:57:22 <EgoBot> H_________e______l_________l_________o_____,____ ____w____o________r______l____________! |-:(<-< [astinu]
01:57:32 <EgoBot> H_________e______l_________l_________o_____,____ ____w____o________r______l____d_______! | :)>-< YOU WIN!
01:58:16 <EgoBot> ...---... | :)>-< YOU WIN!
01:58:52 <calamari> I should fix that _ loophole :)
01:59:06 <puzzlet> is that some kind of language too?
02:00:11 <ihope> Rather than calling it SOS, though, it should be WTF.
02:00:33 <ihope> "We have a whiskey tango foxtrot. I repeat, a whiskey tango foxtrot..."
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02:44:38 <GregorR> Cannon was on my list, but I can't find a good base image :-P
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03:55:02 <kipple_> http://rune.krokodille.com/sign.jpg
03:58:34 <kipple_> as usual I have no idea what you're talking about... ;P
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05:26:13 <GregorR> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Cubicle
05:27:13 <GregorR> It'll be a hit-or-miss, but I like it X-P
06:41:20 <calamari> do not put the baby in a vat of toxic chemicals
06:44:01 <GregorR> Hmm, bubling vat with other silly warning labels on it.
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07:00:26 <GregorR> calamari: For attribution, preferred pseudonym or real name?
07:02:09 <GregorR> If you're saying back in where I think you're saying, that's one I won't do ;)
07:02:21 <calamari> i know.. just being silly more than anything
07:02:33 <calamari> I wasn't actually seriously suggesting the vat of chemicals :P
07:02:43 <GregorR> Well, that one I've made :-P
07:03:16 <calamari> maybe I can find a meat grider pic.. that's still the one I want to see :)
07:03:49 <GregorR> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Vat
07:03:59 <GregorR> If you find a good pic, I'll make it *shrugs*
07:04:05 <GregorR> Or if you want to make it, you can do that to ;)
07:04:09 <calamari> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.saskschools.ca/~gregory/settlers/grinder.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.saskschools.ca/~gregory/items.html&h=220&w=176&sz=3&tbnid=pfCgdq9EbKnFaM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=81&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmeat%2Bgrinder%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DN
07:05:25 <GregorR> Hm, that's a pretty small pic >_>
07:06:32 <GregorR> It may not be unworkable, but bigger is better ...
07:11:21 <calamari> btw, I guess you're not worrying about copyrights ?
07:12:36 <GregorR> If it doesn't say on the page "do not use these images", I'm not really concerned.
07:13:47 <calamari> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/46700-46799/46749.gif
07:14:36 <calamari> then the meat strings will come out the right hand side
07:15:15 <calamari> well, I was imagining a wide freehand black line
07:19:32 <calamari> hmm, wonder if I can bend the words
07:19:44 <calamari> so they look like they are wrapping
07:20:05 <calamari> guess it'd be more of a compression at the edges
07:24:13 <GregorR> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=MeatGrinder
07:27:54 <calamari> what filter did you use for the b&w
07:28:25 <GregorR> desaturate->sobel edge detection->invert->threshold at 165
07:28:41 <calamari> btw, do you have one without the meat?
07:28:50 <GregorR> Sure, I can remove that layer.
07:30:33 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/dnptb/MeatGrinder.xcf.bz2
07:39:20 <calamari> http://68.105.130.108:1023/MeatGrinder.jpg
07:39:41 <calamari> I think it needs more of a pile tho, something :)
07:39:58 <GregorR> Hmm, I think I prefer mine :-P
07:40:05 <GregorR> I like my baby finely ground.
07:40:30 <calamari> the meat that comes out is usually not straight tho
07:40:45 <calamari> that's what I was trying to do with mine
07:42:00 <GregorR> And with that, I'm going to sle...ee..e...*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZ*
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12:24:23 <nooga> i have an idea for an esolang
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00:59:17 <ihope> I got addicted to this song, I got addicted to this song...
01:00:57 <ihope> Zero Wing Rhapsody.
01:08:08 <ihope> And I often think of that one flash animation stating that "the Red Cross RECIEVES donations".
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01:50:03 <ihope> Hmm. gREGORr's gone, but his Ego's still here.
01:50:25 <ihope> Maybe EgoBot's spying on us, logging our every word!
01:50:30 <ihope> Oh wait, that's clog.
01:51:27 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:52:35 <ihope> Maybe ihope's spying on us, logging our every word!
01:52:49 <ihope> Dang, I'm still here.
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01:58:22 <ihope> How many of those nicks are registered?
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01:58:44 * GregorR-L joins the conversation just in time to miss everything.
01:58:59 <ihope> Hmm, let's see here...\
01:59:29 <ihope> Oh, right. http://meme.b9.com/clog/esoteric/?M=D >:-)
02:00:30 <ihope> Time for a daemony thingy.
02:02:30 <GregorR-L> You know EgoBot gets self-conscious :-P
02:03:21 <GregorR-L> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Escher
02:05:33 <ihope> Greg: the link, she is borked
02:07:47 * ihope runs a BF program through a Python syntax highlighter
02:08:15 <GregorR-L> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Escher
02:09:25 <ihope> Programming in BF can be tricky.
02:11:17 <ihope> Let's see... we need to input a character, then decrement it ten times, then do the loop break thingy, then increase by ten, then move the pointer right.
02:11:35 <ihope> ,----------[++++++++++>,----------]
02:11:52 <ihope> Then we need to do a [<]
02:14:10 <ihope> ----------[++++++++++.>----------]
02:15:14 <ihope> Then [-], just to be safe.
02:15:50 <ihope> So our program is +[[-],----------[++++++++++>,----------][<]>----------[++++++++++.>----------][<][-]+]
02:16:24 <int-e> wth are you trying to do?
02:16:44 <int-e> if your program contains ][, you're doing something wrong :)
02:17:05 <int-e> really. after ] the current character is 0, always.
02:17:07 <GregorR-L> Of course, that second loop can't possibly fire.
02:17:33 <ihope> ...Hey, Ego's gone!
02:17:50 <GregorR-L> I'll go put it back up right now X-P
02:18:22 <int-e> how is that program different from +[,.----------] ?
02:19:27 <GregorR-L> Damn, home network definitely down.
02:19:42 <ihope> So you're saying that EgoBot's gone, never to return ever again?
02:19:52 <ihope> s/ever again/within the next few minutes/
02:22:24 <int-e> ihope: ah, you probably wanted s/][/]++++++++++[/ and [[-]<] instead of [<][-]
02:23:46 <int-e> but then it still looks like an elaborative way of coding +[,.[-]+] (i.e. a non-terminating cat)
02:28:22 <ihope> It's supposed to be a storage thingy.
02:29:00 <ihope> It takes as input a line A, then a line B, then it outputs A, then takes C, then outputs B, then takes D, then outputs C...
02:33:26 <int-e> >+[>,----------]>+[[>,----------]<[<]<[<]>>[++++++++++.>]>[>]>++++++++++.]
02:38:19 <int-e> or just >>+[[>,----------]<[<]<[<]>[>++++++++++.----------]>[>]>+]
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14:48:15 <int-e> hmm. perl -le'1while(1x++$_)=~/^(11+)\1+$|^1$/||print' spends 4 characters on eleminating the non-prime 1. is there a shorter way to do that?
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15:53:03 <int-e> ihope: this is the latest version of the program tonight: +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+] this one doesn't run out of memory
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16:17:00 <jix> int-e: what does it do?
16:19:49 <ihope> !bf +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
16:24:00 <ihope> Secret message at !message.
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16:30:23 <ihope_> That was confusing. I don'
16:30:27 <ihope_> t want to do it again.
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19:39:59 <ihope> Why was the reply a PM?
19:41:39 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon message bf
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20:09:05 <ihope> Hmm. I got a PM there.
20:09:27 <ihope> Do a !message something else.
20:09:42 <int-e> !message something else.
20:10:01 <ihope> Yep. I'm getting all the messages.
20:10:17 <int-e> !message something more.
20:11:05 <EgoBot> Use: usertrig <command> <trig-command> Function: manage user triggers. <command> may be add, del, list or show.
20:11:18 <ihope> !usertrig show message
20:11:21 <EgoBot> No such user trigger: message
20:11:41 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon message bf
20:12:35 <ihope> !daemon message bf +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
20:13:32 <int-e> !message can you hear me?
20:15:12 <ihope> !message The suspense is killing me...
20:16:14 <EgoBot> The suspense is killing me...
20:16:28 <int-e> !daemon mess3 bf +>>>>+[[+>>>,----------]+[<<<]<[>>>]>>>+>>>[+++++++++.>>>]+[[-]<<<]>>>+]
20:16:36 <ihope> !daemon message bf +>>>+[[+>>,--------------------------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
20:17:07 <int-e> (memorizes 2 messages ;)
20:17:48 <ihope> !message Grr, how do I finish this thing?
20:18:18 <ihope> !message. Aha. An asterisk ends the line.*
20:18:27 <ihope> !message Aha. An asterisk ends the line.*
20:18:47 <ihope> ...It's not doing anything...
20:19:00 -!- int-e has quit ("Bye!").
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20:19:17 <ihope> !message ~!@#$%^&*()_+`1234567890-={}|[]\:";'<>?,./
20:19:54 <ihope> Oopsies. It is, in fact, a SUB character which ends the line.
20:20:11 <ihope> !daemon message bf +>>>+[[+>>,------------------------------------------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
20:20:37 <int-e> !bf ++++++[>+++++++<-]>.
20:21:27 <ihope> !message !action@can@only@yellL@unfortunatelyN!*
20:21:51 <int-e> well, of course not :)
20:22:00 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION CAN ONLY YELL, UNFORTUNATELY.<CTCP>
20:22:08 <int-e> you subtract 42, you'll have to add 41, not 9
20:22:58 <int-e> unless that was intentional. hmm.
20:23:15 <ihope> !message Dude! Do something!*
20:23:58 <int-e> hmm. is that a space?
20:24:15 <ihope> !message At least it's good at garbling.*
20:24:40 <ihope> !message you@have@to@use@at@signs@for@spaces*
20:25:04 <ihope> !message and@other@arcane@things@for@otherNNN@things*
20:26:38 <int-e> !daemon message bf +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
20:26:48 <int-e> !message <CTCP>ACTION FOO!<CTCP>
20:27:36 <int-e> yaeh, using spaces throw it off
20:27:43 <int-e> (the version before)
20:27:56 <ihope> !daemon garble bf +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[-----------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
20:28:04 <ihope> !garble Garble garble garble.
20:28:10 <ihope> !garble It's garbled!
20:28:11 <int-e> the [[-]<<] would end up stopping at the wrong place.
20:28:37 <ihope> !garble garblegarblegarble
20:28:44 <ihope> !garble garblemeplease
20:29:02 <int-e> !message you there?
20:29:14 <ihope> !message I think so.
20:29:25 <ihope> !message Yeah, I am.
20:29:32 <ihope> !message You think what?
20:29:42 <ihope> !message You're what?
20:29:52 <ihope> !message I didn't say that!
20:30:52 <int-e> ah! no newlines ...
20:31:05 <int-e> right, you broke them :)
20:31:37 <int-e> the little + after the input loop is the 'code' of a newline.
20:32:44 <int-e> !daemon garble bf +>>>+[[+>>,----------]<<[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[-----------------------.[-]+>>]++++++++++.[[-]<<]>>+]
20:33:06 <ihope> !daemon garbage bf +[,--------------------------------.[-]+]
20:33:39 <int-e> !garble !action@i@hope@this@works!
20:33:53 <ihope> !garble !action@can@only@yellL@unfortunatelyN!
20:34:01 <ihope> !garble Yay! It works!
20:34:06 * EgoBot CAN ONLY YELL, UNFORTUNATELY.
20:34:36 <int-e> !message <CTCP>ACTION this works better<CTCP>
20:34:44 <ihope> `{|}~ are all outside its domain, as are uppercase letters.
20:35:46 <EgoBot> 1 int-e: daemon message bf
20:35:48 <EgoBot> 2 int-e: daemon garble bf
20:35:50 <EgoBot> 3 ihope: daemon garbage bf
20:36:02 <int-e> you're missing newlines.
20:36:07 <ihope> !garbage What are they? WHAT ARE THEY??
20:36:58 <ihope> Time for new and improved garbage.
20:37:01 <int-e> oh, and that ê is the previous newline.
20:37:17 <int-e> all mysteries solved
20:37:42 <ihope> !daemon garbage bf +[,>,>,[-<+>]<,[-<+>]<.[-]+]
20:39:16 <ihope> !garbage @@J@@u@@s@@t@@ @@p@@r@@e@@f@@i@@x@@ @@e@@a@@c@@h@@ @@c@@h@@a@@r@@a@@c@@t@@e@@r@@ @@w@@i@@t@@h@@ @@t@@w@@o@@ @@a@@t@@ @@s@@i@@g@@n@@s@@.@@
20:39:39 <int-e> no, that's just 128
20:39:40 <EgoBot> 1 int-e: daemon message bf
20:39:42 <EgoBot> 2 int-e: daemon garble bf
20:39:44 <EgoBot> 3 ihope: daemon garbage bf
20:39:56 <int-e> but you can do better
20:40:23 <int-e> !daemon garbage bf +[,>,[<++++>-]<.[-]+]
20:40:55 <int-e> !garbage J@u@s@t@.@.@.@.@.
20:41:33 <ihope> Now, as somebody once didn't say, "Darn extended ASCII to HECK!"
20:41:43 * int-e wonders how much work a base64 decoder in brainfuck would be.
20:42:12 <ihope> What's wrong with base 32?
20:43:10 <int-e> !daemon garbage bf +[,[>++++<-],>[<++++++++>-]<.[-]+]
20:45:07 <int-e> but why doesn't the newline work?
20:45:19 <int-e> !daemon garbage bf +[,[>++++<-],>[<++++++++>-]<.[-]+]
20:45:50 <int-e> because 4*32 is 128.
20:47:09 <int-e> !garbage 6A0A0C0T0I0O0N0 0l0o0o0k0s0 0a0r0o0u0n0d0 0f0o0o0l0i0s0h0l0y0.6A0
20:48:36 <int-e> what does !quine do?
20:48:51 <ihope> It was supposed to output !quine every time you called it.
20:49:27 <ihope> !daemon garble bf +[,>,[-<++++++++>]<.[-]+]
20:49:54 <ihope> !daemon garble bf +[,>,<[->++++++++<].[-]+]
20:50:45 <ihope> !garble N o w m o r e r e a d a b l e t h a n e v e r b e f o r e !
20:51:28 <int-e> that worked with the previous version, too.
20:51:34 <int-e> I just didn't think of it :)
20:51:52 <int-e> it definitely looks dead.
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20:54:19 <ihope> Choose a page: & for control, ' for symbols, SP for uppercase, ! for lowercase, "#$% for extended.
20:54:49 <ihope> Then you can access everything using @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
20:56:07 <int-e> if you multiply by 32 (as I did) those pages are actually numbered (6,7,0,1,2,3,4,5)
20:56:49 <ihope> If they were 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7, then you'd have to use control characters for everything.
20:57:58 <ihope> !N!O!T'@!A!S'@!R!E!A!D!A!B!L!E'@!A!S'@!I!T'@!C!O!U!L!D'@!B!E'L'@!B!U!T'@!W!O!R!K!A!B!L!E'N$J
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21:32:40 <int-e> that's GregorR's bot, right?
21:42:26 <ihope> So Haskell is better than any other language, and Python is the best.
21:43:38 <int-e> haskell is good at stuff that python sucks at. and vice versa. both aren't good languages for number-crunching.
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21:54:44 <ihope> !ayuda a mí por favor
21:56:04 <ihope> !me ayuda por favor
21:57:14 <ihope> !me ayude por favor
21:58:08 <ihope> Hmm. According to Babel Fish, it's "ayúdeme por favor".
21:59:07 <ihope> So how do I work this new Ego?
22:12:05 -!- Arrogant has quit ("I AM QUIT HAVE A NICE DAY").
22:17:07 <ihope> "bf_txtgen Hello, world!"
22:17:30 <ihope> It's not doing much.
22:17:48 <RoboGregorR> Entertain yourself with http://www.donotputthebaby.com/
22:20:15 <ihope> There's plenty of those I feel I'd rather not click...
22:26:08 <ihope> SAfety (sic) cutout!
22:28:14 <ihope> Now give EgoBot, or give me something which is not death!
22:28:27 <RoboGregorR> I can't do anything about EgoBot from here.
22:29:42 <RoboGregorR> Or I could just grab the source from the files archive X-P
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23:24:14 <ihope> Time for a lesser oh noes.
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23:31:36 <ihope> Somehow I managed to make the type /msg 'Ere we go.
23:31:46 <ihope> [INFO] No such nick/channel
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00:44:08 <ihope> FROM NOW ON, NOBODY'S ALLOWED TO USE LOWERCASE LETTERS.
00:44:12 -!- ihope has changed nick to IHOPE.
00:45:15 <IHOPE> HMM. THIS UPPERCASE NICKNAME LOOKS A BIT OUT OF PLACE AMONG ALL THESE LOWERCASE ONES.
00:45:26 -!- IHOPE has changed nick to ihope.
00:45:34 <ihope> I'm allowed to break my own rules, right?
00:46:44 <RoboGregorR> I'm allowed to break rules enforced by people with no real authority, right?
00:47:25 <ihope> But if you break too many rules, my IRC not might not like you.
00:47:59 <RoboGregorR> Is advertizing http://www.donotputthebaby.com/ against the rule.
00:49:31 <RoboGregorR> Is using horrible grammar while asking a question against the rule.
00:53:27 <ihope> \a b c d e f g -> a g (f g) (e g (f g)) (d g (f g) (e g (f g))) (c g (f g) (e g (f g)) (d g (f g) (e g (f g)))) (b g (f g) (e g (f g)) (d g (f g) (e g (f g))) (c g (f g) (e g (f g)) (d g (f g) (e g (f g)))))
01:05:57 <ihope> Does (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f) -> (a -> b -> c -> d -> e) -> (a -> b -> c -> d) -> (a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> f mean any more to you?
01:13:21 <int-e> \a b c d e f g -> (\a' -> (\b' -> (\c' -> (\d' -> (\e' -> (\f' -> (\g' -> g') (a a' b' c' d' e' f')) (b a' b' c' d' e')) (c a' b' c' d')) (d a' b' c')) (e a' b')) (f a')) g
01:14:24 <int-e> that's equivalent, and, I believe, easier to understand. each x' is "the value of type x".
01:15:39 <int-e> lambda calculus. \ is lambda
01:15:42 <RoboGregorR> {M[m(_o)O!"Even Glass is more readable than that ..."(_o)o.?]}
01:15:43 <ihope> One of the more obfuscated instances ;-)
01:16:22 <ihope> Haskell has stuff like "factorial x = product [1..x]".
01:17:29 <int-e> \g' f' e' d' c' b' a' -> (\a -> (\b -> (\c -> (\d -> (\e -> (\f -> (\g -> g) (g' a b c d e f)) (f' a b c d e)) (e' a b c d)) (d' a b c)) (c' a b)) (b' a)) a'
01:17:41 <int-e> (same, renamed some variables)
01:18:00 <int-e> (now, x' is the function that returns type x and x is the value of type x)
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01:22:49 <int-e> oh, unlambda puzzle: ``ci`r`.!`.d`.l`.r`.o`.w`. `.,`.o`.l`.l`.e`.H`c``sc``sc``sc`ki <-- how often does this print Hello, world! (is there a formula for this?)
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01:24:03 <int-e> (btw, I know the number from executing the program and I have no clue how to calculate it - so I haven't solved this puzzle)
01:26:40 <int-e> (if you want to see why I'm so confused, try varying the number of ``sc at the end)
01:32:57 <ihope> If I'm not mistaken (and I probably am), it's only printed once.
01:33:22 <int-e> you're mistaken. :)
01:42:54 <ihope> Dialing that would be a bad idea, however.
01:43:21 <int-e> but that's not the result I have
01:45:36 <ihope> I don't suppose you could tell me how to dial ``ci`r`.!`.d`.l`.r`.o`.w`. `.,`.o`.l`.l`.e`.H`c``sc``sc``sc`ki into a phone...
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01:54:12 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
01:54:14 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
01:54:17 <int-e> ihope: these are the strange values that I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/17180
01:55:12 <int-e> the first column are powers of two though :)
01:55:44 <ihope> The second column is A048473.
01:56:16 <int-e> that database doesn't work for me right now :/
01:57:06 <int-e> but it looks like a_(n+1) = 3 a_n + 2
01:57:58 <int-e> oh, you just googled?
01:58:12 <ihope> A048473 was the only thing I got so far.
01:58:14 <int-e> there's an idea, I should've thought of that.
01:58:31 <ihope> 31011467 happens to be a prime number, it seems.
01:59:01 <int-e> 107 is prime, too (which was the answer to the 'puzzle' above)
02:00:17 <ihope> Tee hee. /aamsz=banner/PageID=23540252
02:04:15 <ihope> Well, the next column over seems to be a' = 6a + 12
02:05:34 <ihope> Then a' = 23a + 84
02:06:07 <int-e> then a' = 158a + 780
02:06:25 <int-e> (if we can trust those 4 values)
02:07:46 <int-e> so hmm. 2,3,6,23,158 and 0,2,12,84,780
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02:11:32 <int-e> and if that's right, the next factor is 1557, offset 9330 (with no data to verify even one value)
02:11:50 <ihope> So why the heck does Microsoft offer both Works AND Officer?
02:11:51 <int-e> it's somewhat reassuring that the factor is an integer.
02:13:33 <ihope> Obviously Office's pattern recognition thingy isn't as good.
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03:11:04 <ihope_> !daemon pager bf +[,>,[-<++++>]<.[-]+]
03:12:03 <ihope_> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++<].[-]+]
03:12:21 <ihope_> !pager D o e s i t w o r k ?
03:12:49 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon pager bf
03:13:30 <ihope_> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++<]>.<[-]+]
03:13:39 <ihope_> !pager D o e s i t w o r k ?
03:14:37 <ihope_> !pager D o e s i t w o r k ?
03:15:03 <EgoBot> Use: flush Function: flush the output buffer, discarding any current output
03:15:20 <ihope_> !pager D o e s i t w o r k ?
03:17:05 <ihope_> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
03:17:30 <ihope_> !pager L e t ' s t r y t h a t a g a i n .
03:18:58 <ihope_> !pager %a A C T I O N t e s t s%a
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03:21:45 <ihope_> Me booch. /me calculates
03:22:17 <GregorR> Is that how colors work ... something like that X-P
03:22:54 <ihope_> And %c represents ETX...
03:23:03 <ihope_> And you have to end every line with a space.
03:23:23 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION shows off<CTCP>e e
03:23:39 <ihope_> Um... I'll just pretend it worked.
03:24:07 <ihope_> !pager %j%a A C T I O N s h o w s o f f%a
03:24:39 <ihope_> !pager %a A C T I O N s h o w s o f f%a
03:25:36 <GregorR> !pager %c 0 6 T e s t a g a i n
03:26:33 <ihope_> I guess this is similar to the way control characters are "normally" displayed.
03:27:08 <ihope_> You can prefix them with & instead to do uppercase, so &J is newline.
03:27:20 <GregorR> Why, that's ridiculously pointless!
03:27:41 <ihope_> !pager i t w i&H o r k s !
03:27:54 <ihope_> Indeed, it doesn't wirk.
03:28:15 <ihope_> I can annoy some of you with %g!
03:28:58 <GregorR> How dare you use an on-white color scheme ;)
03:29:06 <GregorR> !pager %c 0 1 ; 0 1 T e s t ?
03:29:33 <ihope_> !pager %u M u a h a h a .
03:29:49 <ihope_> !pager %u M u a h a h a .
03:30:41 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon pager bf
03:30:45 <GregorR> 19:28:11 <EgoBot> %ÀÀÀ@ @ @à`
03:31:13 <ihope_> It's fixed. Do nothing.
03:31:24 <ihope_> !pager %u M u a h a h a .
03:31:32 <ihope_> !pager %u M u a h a h a .
03:32:15 <ihope_> !pager 'n'o 'm'o'r'e 'g'i'b'b'e'r'i's'h !
03:32:46 <GregorR> Err, forgot the ending ' ' again X-P
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03:35:39 <ihope_> Well, I must abruptly poof now. Bye.
03:35:52 <ihope_> +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
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13:48:49 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon pager bf
13:51:34 <ihope> !bf ,++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
13:51:52 <ihope> !bf ,++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
13:52:23 <ihope> !bf +[,++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]+]
13:54:40 <ihope> Hmm, something's not right.
13:55:16 <ihope> !pager '" H e l l o , w o r l d !
13:56:16 <ihope> !pager '6 H e l l o , w o r l d !
13:56:26 <ihope> Nothing noticable.
13:56:59 <ihope> That must be reverse video. %v is reverse video.
13:57:19 <ihope> !pager '/ H e l l o , w o r l d !
13:58:03 <ihope> That must be normal. %o for normal.
13:58:37 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
13:58:42 <ihope> Pager is a daemon.
13:59:00 <ihope> The details are sorta weird.
14:00:09 <ihope> You need to put a space at the end of each line.
14:00:23 <ihope> Otherwise that happens.
14:00:43 <ihope> By the way, '1 and '2 are the codes for DC1 and DC2.
14:01:00 <ihope> ASCII control characters.
14:01:56 <ihope> Apparently that's also the mIRC code for "normal".
14:02:29 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon pager bf
14:03:29 <ihope> !pager '# 4 , 3 S h i n y !
14:04:16 <ihope> Is that carriage return?
14:04:45 <ihope> Carriage return is '-, $M or %m.
14:05:46 <puzzlet> well giving out raw string "\rPART #esoteric" would result actual PART.
14:06:22 <ihope> There are other codes for carriage return, too. Lemme see here...
14:06:43 <jix> egobot has a filter for newlines/carriage returns
14:07:28 <ihope> Anyway, the other codes for carriage return contain extended ASCII.
14:09:02 <ihope> Examples are $ì and "¡.
14:09:53 <ihope> That should be #¡.
14:11:48 <ihope> !pager L i n e%j b r e a k
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14:12:47 <ihope> !pager T h i s'@ i s'@ a n o t h e r'@ w a y'@ t o'@ d o'@ s p a c e s .
14:12:49 <EgoBot> This is another way to do spaces.
14:14:55 <ihope> !pager 'o!B!F!U!S!C!A!T!I!O!N'@!W!I!T!H'@!P!A!G!E!R .
14:14:57 <EgoBot> Obfuscation with pager.
14:19:04 <ihope> Hmm. HEre comes oops.
14:20:53 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION The real reason for inventing Pager.<CTCP>"I
14:21:55 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
14:25:56 <int-e> but ... +[,[>++++<-],>[<++++++++>-]<.[-]+] is shorter :)
14:25:57 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
14:25:59 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
14:26:54 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,-------------------------------->,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
14:28:22 <int-e> that doesn't change the behaviour
14:28:53 <ihope> It makes it a bit faster, though.
14:29:12 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N t e s t s%a
14:29:35 <ihope> !daemon pager2 bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+]
14:31:45 <ihope> !pager T h e q u i c k b r o w n f o x j u m p s o v e r t h e l a z y d o g , b u t t h e l a z y d o g d o e s n ' t k n o w h e ' s b e i n g j u m p e d o v e r b e c a u s e h e i s a s l e e p . T h e q u i c k b r o w n f o x l a u g h s a t t h e l a z y d o g a n d r u n s a w a y .
14:31:48 <ihope> !pager2 T h e q u i c k b r o w n f o x j u m p s o v e r t h e l a z y d o g , b u t t h e l a z y d o g d o e s n ' t k n o w h e ' s b e i n g j u m p e d o v e r b e c a u s e h e i s a s l e e p . T h e q u i c k b r o w n f o x l a u g h s a t t h e l a z y d o g a n d r u n s a w a y .
14:31:49 <EgoBot> Thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog,butthelazydogdoesn'tknowhe'sbeingjumpedoverbecauseheisasleep.Thequickbrownfoxlaughsatthelazydogandrunsaway.
14:31:51 <EgoBot> Thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog,butthelazydogdoesn'tknowhe'sbeingjumpedoverbecauseheisasleep.Thequickbrownfoxlaughsatthelazydogandrunsaway.
14:32:27 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,[>++++<-],>[<++++++++>-]<.[-]+]
14:33:38 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N $_ u n d e r l i n e s%a
14:34:05 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N %_ u n d e r l i n e s%a
14:34:34 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N &_ u n d e r l i n e s%a
14:36:41 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N &Q t e s t s%a
14:38:46 <ihope> !pager This is the wrong way to use pager.
14:40:27 <ihope> !pager C u t e c o i$$ c i d e$$ c e .
14:41:01 <jix> !pager Why is this the wrong way to use the pager?
14:41:32 <ihope> Because you get H@tièÀRN.
14:41:43 <int-e> because the pager combines every two characters into one
14:41:56 <jix> stupid pager!
14:42:21 <int-e> !daemon memo +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
14:42:32 <jix> !memo test
14:42:33 <ihope> jix: give me a Haskell to BF and I'll be happy
14:42:34 <int-e> !memo <CTCP>ACTION thinks this is better.<CTCP>
14:42:59 <int-e> oh, won't work without a language tag, eh?
14:43:05 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
14:43:15 <int-e> !daemon memo bf +>>>+[[+>>,----------]+[<<]<[>>]>>+>>[+++++++++.>>]+[[-]<<]>>+]
14:43:19 <int-e> !memo <CTCP>ACTION thinks this is better.<CTCP>
14:43:39 * EgoBot thinks this is better.
14:43:48 * ihope wonders who "said" that
14:44:25 <ihope> * EgoBot thinks this is better.
14:44:44 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,[>++++<-],>[<++++++++>-]<.[-]+]
14:44:46 <int-e> all it takes is sending literal <CTCP>s around ...
14:45:07 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N d e m o n s t r a t e s%a
14:46:37 <ihope> !pager / m e e x p e r i m e n t s
14:48:23 <int-e> /me can do that, too
14:48:43 * ihope tries to figure it out
14:48:47 <int-e> (try putting // at the front of the line - that's how xchat does it)
14:49:02 * int-e doesn't know chatzilla
14:49:02 <ihope> It says /me Unknown command
14:49:29 <int-e> /quote privmsg #esoteric :/me can do that, too then
14:49:59 <int-e> /me can do that, too
14:50:13 <int-e> there's one minor problem with that
14:50:19 <int-e> you won't see yourself succeed ;)
14:50:26 <int-e> ([15:49:42] <ihope> /me)
14:50:41 <int-e> did you include the colon?
14:51:14 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:51:20 <int-e> it means that the server and clients will treat the rest of the line as a single argument
14:51:41 <int-e> [15:51:14] <ihope> /me tries
14:52:13 * ihope does something that won't work
14:52:17 <int-e> hmm, actually - /msg #esoteric /me foo blah should work, too
14:52:36 <int-e> but that's too easy
14:53:04 <int-e> [15:52:17] <ihope> /me yeah?
14:53:44 <ihope> /me has another client open
14:54:11 -!- ihope_ has quit (Client Quit).
15:19:31 -!- Hawkbot has joined.
15:19:48 <Hawkbot> ihope: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
15:20:42 <ihope> Does this guy *have* any commands?
15:21:17 <Hawkbot> int-e: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
15:23:17 <int-e> @tell Hawkbot @tell int-e foo
15:23:18 <Hawkbot> int-e: Error: You just told me, why should I tell myself?
15:24:04 <Hawkbot> int-e: Admin, Channel, Config, Ctcp, Misc, Nickometer, Owner, and User
15:24:49 <int-e> @nickometer foobar
15:24:49 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "foobar" is 0.0%.
15:24:56 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "int-e" is 14.4%.
15:25:01 <Hawkbot> ihope: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "ihope" is 0.0%.
15:25:10 <ihope> Is that good or bad?
15:25:12 <Hawkbot> int-e: Error: "nickomater" is not a valid command.
15:25:15 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "$" is 14.4%.
15:25:18 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "$$" is 38.4%.
15:25:19 <ihope> @nickometer Hawkbot
15:25:20 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "$$$" is 97.0%.
15:25:21 <Hawkbot> ihope: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "Hawkbot" is 0.0%.
15:25:24 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "-" is 0.0%.
15:25:26 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "--" is 24.2%.
15:25:28 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "---" is 84.9%.
15:25:34 <Hawkbot> int-e: Error: "-" is not a valid command.
15:25:49 <int-e> @nickometer [@nickometer foo]
15:25:49 <Hawkbot> int-e: Error: "@nickometer" is not a valid command.
15:25:57 <int-e> @nickometer [print "foo"]
15:25:57 <Hawkbot> int-e: Error: "print" is not a valid command.
15:25:59 <ihope> @nickometer [nickometer foo]
15:26:00 <Hawkbot> ihope: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "foo" is 0.0%." is 99.98%.
15:26:12 <int-e> @nickometer [42*43]
15:26:12 <Hawkbot> int-e: Error: "42*43" is not a valid command.
15:26:14 -!- Hawkbot has quit ("Ctrl-C at console.").
15:29:38 <ihope> Hmm, let's try something.
15:29:43 -!- ihope has changed nick to Hawkbot.
15:29:55 -!- Hawkbot has changed nick to ihope.
15:31:28 <int-e> ah. int-e has two 'case shifts' because it's two 'words'.
15:32:14 <ihope> Nope, not doing much.
15:36:02 -!- Hawkbot has joined.
15:36:14 <Hawkbot> ihope: I don't recognize you.
15:37:33 <int-e> @nickometer [nickometer foo]
15:37:33 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "foo" is 0.0%." is 99.98%.
15:37:52 <Hawkbot> ihope: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "ihope" is 0.0%.
15:38:09 <ihope> @nickometer [nickometer [nickometer [nickometer]]]
15:38:10 <Hawkbot> ihope: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "ihope" is 0.0%." is 99.98%." is 99.990%." is 99.992%.
15:38:41 <int-e> @nickometer "AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA"
15:38:41 <Hawkbot> int-e: The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA" is 99.98%.
15:39:13 -!- Hawkbot has quit (Client Quit).
15:39:22 <int-e> @nickometer "6969696969"
15:41:15 <jix> @nickometer jix
15:46:55 <int-e> The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "jix" is 0.0%.
15:58:59 <ihope> Now I don't know how to get the Hawk back :-P
16:00:37 <int-e> >>> n("", "", "", "[[[[[[[[[[[")
16:00:41 <int-e> ('%s lameness points awarded: %s', 35146.667022371279, '11 consecutive non-alphas ')
16:00:41 <int-e> ('%s lameness points awarded: %s', 35146.667022371279, '11 unmatched parentheses')
16:00:41 <int-e> ('%s lameness points awarded: %s', 22320.875587836748, '11 extraneous symbols')
16:00:41 <int-e> The "lame nick-o-meter" reading for "[[[[[[[[[[[" is 99.994%.
16:07:26 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
16:07:30 <EgoBot> 3 int-e: daemon memo bf
16:07:31 <ihope> Let's not forget our Ego.
16:07:41 <ihope> !memo I don't get it.
16:07:51 <ihope> !memo What does it do?
16:08:17 <int-e> !memo Still the same as yesterday.
16:09:02 <ihope> !memo That's good.
16:09:04 <EgoBot> Still the same as yesterday.
16:09:18 <int-e> !daemon wth bf ,+[-->++++[>++++++++<-]<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>--[-[>-<[-]]]>+[-<+++++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]>[-]+>[<-->-[<+>-]]<[<<<<+++++++++++++>>>>-]]<<[-]<<+.[-]<,+]
16:09:59 <int-e> !daemon rot13 bf ,+[-->++++[>++++++++<-]<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>--[-[>-<[-]]]>+[-<+++++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]>[-]+>[<-->-[<+>-]]<[<<<<+++++++++++++>>>>-]]<<[-]<<+.[-]<,+]
16:11:28 <int-e> I know. It's old and well-tested
16:11:33 <int-e> and I mean old ... the file data I have is 2001-07-20 ...
16:17:25 <ihope> !pager %c 0 1 0 0 b a d g e r%r b a d g e r%r b a d g e r%c 0 4 0 3 m u s h r o o m
16:17:30 <EgoBot> 00badgerbadgerbadger03mushroom
16:23:18 <ihope> !pager %c 0 1 0 0 b a d g e r%v b a d g e r%v b a d g e r%c 0 4 0 3 m u s h r o o m
16:23:21 <EgoBot> 00badgerbadgerbadger03mushroom
01:51:19 -!- clog has joined.
01:51:19 -!- clog has joined.
02:38:18 -!- J|x has joined.
02:41:53 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix.
02:42:09 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
02:42:11 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
02:42:22 <jix> yay rhotor! thx GregorR
02:42:43 <jix> !rhotor x/"Hello, world!\n"
02:42:45 <EgoBot> rhotor-hi: ./Parser.hs:(29,0)-(46,39): Non-exhaustive patterns in function tokenize
02:42:58 <jix> !rhotor x/x
02:43:23 <jix> !input 3 hallo
02:43:33 <jix> !i 3 hallo
02:43:58 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:18:05 <jix> !rhotor x/%"Hello, world!\n"
03:22:35 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:22:38 -!- GregorR_ has joined.
04:32:44 -!- GregorR__ has joined.
04:32:53 -!- GregorR_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:17:55 -!- J|x has joined.
05:25:56 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:36:41 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix.
06:27:20 -!- ihope has joined.
06:57:12 -!- LoRd-Phr3x has joined.
06:57:53 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:13:39 -!- Keymaker has joined.
07:27:09 -!- LoRd-Phr3x has left (?).
07:31:54 -!- GregorR___ has joined.
07:32:06 -!- GregorR__ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:34:49 -!- Keymaker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:17:02 -!- ihope has joined.
08:18:23 <ihope> So apparently P is a yellow letter and R is an orange one.
08:20:11 <ihope> I forgot what that's called...
08:22:43 <ihope> Some people associate colors with letters, or tastes with sounds, or moods with textures, or some such.
08:24:00 <puzzlet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
09:30:38 -!- Keymaker has joined.
09:41:38 -!- kipple has joined.
10:16:06 * ihope attempts to make an IRC bot
10:30:24 <ihope> Hmm. I do a web search for "IRC library".
10:30:28 <ihope> Top result: Indian River County Main Library.
11:33:03 <ihope> It's easy to see which one of these is different from the others: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
11:33:12 -!- jix has left (?).
12:15:17 -!- GregorR___ has changed nick to GregorR.
12:16:08 <ihope> What bot-base thingy does EgoBot use?
12:17:09 <ihope> So no Eggdrop or anything like that?
13:09:43 <ihope> Can I get the source code anywhere?
13:41:52 <GregorR> Yeah, it's in the files archive.
13:46:23 <GregorR> Hm, the esoteric files archive seems not to like me >_>
13:46:30 <GregorR> I can't add the new version...
13:59:11 -!- jix has joined.
14:16:44 <ihope> I can't change nicks!... without getting a penalty at #nethack-idlerpg.
14:16:59 <GregorR> So leave that channel, change nicks, then rejoin.
14:19:22 <ihope> That would give the same penalty as changing nicks 20/3 times.
14:22:38 <ihope> So why don't we have an Ego running?
14:23:46 <GregorR> Because I'm not paying enough attn X-P
14:24:09 -!- EgoBot has joined.
14:27:02 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
14:27:04 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
14:28:25 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<+]
14:29:40 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
14:30:15 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N d o e s a s a n i t y c h e c k%a
14:30:26 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N d o e s a s a n i t y c h e c k%a
14:30:56 <ihope> You weren't putting a space in front.
14:31:33 <GregorR> !pager T h a t ' s w e i r d
14:32:47 <ihope> It doesn't have to be a space. It can be ( or 0 or 8 or @ or H or P or X or ` or h or p or x.
14:33:30 <ihope> NUL, BS, DLE or CAN.
14:34:24 <ihope> In some years, people will get so fed up with people actually using BS that way that the phrase "That's BS!" will become common.
14:34:57 <GregorR> The phrase "That's BS" is common ...
14:35:43 <ihope> !pager HThhhihsh hchahnh hghehth hrhehahlhlhyh hchohnhfhuhshihnhgh.h
14:35:46 <EgoBot> This can get really confusing.
14:36:06 <GregorR> That wasn't confusing at all >_> <_<
14:44:16 <jix> !pager %a T I M E%a
14:44:35 <jix> !rhotor x/%"Hello, world!\n"
14:45:27 <ihope> !pager %a T I M E%a
14:45:53 <ihope> It doesn't seem to be doing much.
14:47:26 -!- ihope_ has joined.
14:49:29 <EgoBot> 72 +++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++>+++><<<<-]>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-. [493]
14:52:08 <ihope> !daemon me bf +[{.++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<-]>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.}{,----------[++++++++++.,----------]++++++++++.}{[-]+.+++++++++.---------}]
14:53:08 <ihope> !daemon me bf +[{.++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<-]>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.}{,----------[++++++++++.,----------]}{[-]+.+++++++++.---------}]
14:54:16 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
14:54:45 <GregorR> DO NOT PUT THE BABY ON EBAY!!!
14:54:48 -!- cmeme has joined.
14:55:00 <GregorR> Woooh, take it offffff :-P
14:58:07 * EgoBot checks to make sure GregorR's not looking
15:00:01 * EgoBot decides against putting the baby in the blender
15:00:20 <GregorR> Thanks to the childcare advice from http://www.donotputthebaby.com/
15:00:35 * EgoBot decides the mailbox would be a better place
15:01:11 <jix> uhm is {} a brainfuck instruction i don't know?
15:01:28 <jix> or was it just there to seperate the parts?
15:02:12 <jix> !rhotor x/<s,a/s.s,a><s,a,b/a,a,<s.s,b>>,x
15:02:25 <jix> !om 3 Test
15:02:28 <jix> !in 3 Test
15:02:40 <ihope> Do not put the baby on a T-shirt!
15:03:03 <GregorR> ihope: *hypnotic eyes* BUY THE T-SHIRT
15:03:37 <jix> !rhotor x/<s,a/s.s,a><s,a,b/a,a,<s.s,b>>,x
15:03:44 <jix> !i 3 Test\n
15:04:24 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
15:04:37 <ihope> !daemon say bf +[,.[-]+]
15:04:38 <jix> GregorR: why doesn't it work?
15:04:50 <GregorR> Idonno, what should it be doing?
15:04:58 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
15:04:59 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
15:05:17 <ihope> Shakell Shakell Shakell
15:06:55 <jix> !daemon censor rhotor x/<s,a/s.s,a><s,%"fuck",b/%"****",<s.s,b>\s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>>,x
15:07:04 <jix> !censor brainfuck is cool
15:07:42 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
15:07:46 <EgoBot> 3 jix: daemon censor rhotor
15:07:48 <EgoBot> 4 ihope: daemon say bf
15:08:24 <jix> why do i have to use eof?
15:08:41 <ihope> You need to output the newline, I guess.
15:08:41 <GregorR> Idonno, does rhotor not do fflush (in Haskell form X-P)?
15:08:58 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:09:15 <jix> GregorR: ah!
15:09:52 <ihope> ...It's not working!
15:10:17 -!- EgoBot has joined.
15:10:20 <GregorR> OK, that's weird ...........
15:10:27 <GregorR> It killed the shell EgoBot was running on >_O
15:10:34 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<+]
15:10:44 <ihope> !daemon me bf +[{.++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<-]>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.}{,----------[++++++++++.,----------]}{[-]+.+++++++++.---------}]
15:10:53 <ihope> !daemon say bf +[,.[-]+]
15:11:41 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N d o e s a n i n s a n i t y c h e c k%a
15:12:05 <ihope> !say Insanity check?
15:12:21 <jix> GregorR: ok add an 'import System.IO' as the first import
15:12:22 <ihope> Erm. I meant !show.
15:12:30 <jix> and change the main = line to main= (hSetBuffering stdout NoBuffering) >> getArgs >>= \args ->
15:12:49 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N d o e s a n i n s a n i t y c h e c k%a
15:13:15 <GregorR> jix: I refuse to fix YOUR code, you fix YOUR code ;)
15:13:25 <jix> GregorR: it's not a bug!
15:13:51 <ihope> !me tries this one
15:14:26 <ihope> So everything else is working...
15:15:15 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<+]
15:15:49 <ihope> !pager I c o m m a n d y o u t o w o r k !
15:15:51 <EgoBot> I command you to work!
15:16:17 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N c o m m a n d s y o u t o w o r k !%a
15:18:55 <jix> GregorR: http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/rhotor/rhotor-hi-0.0.2.tar.bz2
15:19:45 -!- ihope_ has quit ("What the heck is a Beerdigungnachricht?").
15:20:03 <GregorR> Gal darnit ihope, we all know that now.
15:20:40 <jix> !daemon censor rhotor x/<s,a/s.s,a><s,%"fuck",b/%"****",<s.s,b>\s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>>,x
15:20:47 <jix> !censor brainfuck is cool
15:20:53 <GregorR> !censor fuckshiftfuckfuckcrapfeces
15:20:56 <EgoBot> ****shift********crapfeces
15:21:06 <GregorR> Whoops, I said shift instead of shit X-P
15:21:12 <GregorR> !censor fuckshitfuckfuckcrapfeces
15:21:15 <EgoBot> ****shit********crapfeces
15:21:22 <GregorR> Yeah, that works REALLY well.
15:21:32 <jix> it's an alpga version
15:21:41 <GregorR> Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally well.
15:22:05 <jix> !undaemon censor
15:22:13 <jix> !daemon censor rhotor x/<s,a/s.s,a><s,%"GregorR",b/%"****",<s.s,b>\s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>>,x
15:22:16 <GregorR> So, is this "childsafe" filter or "Fundamentalistsafe filter"?
15:22:16 <jix> updated it ;)
15:22:38 <ihope> Shouldn't that be ****?
15:22:44 <jix> !censor GregorR is a nice person
15:22:57 <jix> argjh you're right
15:23:07 <jix> feel free to fix that.. i have to get some sleep now...
15:23:14 <ihope> !censor The string "GregorR" has seven characters.
15:23:16 <EgoBot> The string "****" has seven characters.
15:23:33 <GregorR> Lemme make it a Fundamentalistsafe filter.
15:23:47 <GregorR> !daemon censor rhotor x/<s,a/s.s,a><s,%"homosexual",b/%"**********",<s.s,b>\s,a,b/a,<s.s,b>>,x
15:24:01 <GregorR> !censor There's nothing threatening about homosexuals.
15:24:04 <EgoBot> There's nothing threatening about **********s.
15:24:37 <ihope> /// is a much better language for censors.
15:25:25 <ihope> Oops. I was going to post a spec for BF-SC.
15:27:13 <jix> ihope: thue is even bretter
15:27:24 -!- jix has left (?).
15:27:40 <ihope> Thue is better, eh?
15:28:00 <ihope> It has no escapes!
15:28:25 <Keymaker> it'd be a lot harder to make a thue program search certain string and cencor it
15:30:06 <ihope> Slashes has /foo/bar/
15:30:12 <ihope> Thue has foo::=bar
15:30:17 <ihope> Or something like that.
15:30:24 <Keymaker> i meant that if it had two user input
15:30:56 <Keymaker> naturally the hard coded version is really simple:)
15:31:20 <ihope> With ///, you could just append input to the program's source.
15:31:50 <Keymaker> i should try to take a better look at that language sometime
15:31:52 <ihope> But I'm not sure how well the flow control whatever would work.
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16:41:32 <GregorR> OK, yes, we can all control EgoBot, woohoo :-P
16:42:05 <EgoBot> I can spam and nobody'll know who it is!
16:42:54 <GregorR> There's only one person here who shortens my name to Greg.
16:44:22 <GregorR> ihope isn't good at anonymity.
16:45:11 <GregorR> If I don't get two syllables, neither do you. From now on, your name is 'i'
16:45:41 <ihope> Should I call your bot Egg, then?
16:46:27 <GregorR> What you SHOULD do is learn to use tab completion X-P
16:51:29 <Keymaker> GregorR: cool, works in opera client as well
16:51:34 <ihope> i[tab] and G[tab], I'd say.
16:51:46 <GregorR> Keymaker: I should hope so X-P
16:51:53 <ihope> ...Whoa, it works!
16:52:18 <GregorR> Welcome to IRC, I see it's your first day here.
16:53:05 <GregorR> DO NOT PUT THE BABY ON LIFEGUARD DUTY
16:53:59 <ihope> If I want to pretend to be GregorR, I'll just !say >_O.
16:53:59 <Keymaker> whatthef*** is that dnptb stuff??
16:54:10 <ihope> www.donotputthebaby.com
16:54:45 <GregorR> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/
16:55:15 <Keymaker> heh, didn't know it was your site
16:55:24 <Keymaker> didn't bother to look it until now, though :p
16:57:17 <ihope> Do not put the baby in the recursion!
16:57:45 <ihope> [insert sign depicting a baby and a "Do not put the baby in the recursion!" sign here]
17:00:37 <GregorR> I do have emotions other than ">_O"
17:00:43 <GregorR> You people just bring out ">_O" a lot.
17:02:32 <GregorR> Ö <(You guys just don't respect vertical smileys.)
17:02:46 <ihope> Diamond ring smiley.
17:03:43 <Keymaker> i only have respect for the traditional horizontal(?) :) smileys
17:05:27 <GregorR> ^o^ <(Vertical smileys are the wave of the future!)
17:05:40 <GregorR> >o< <(No longer must we suffer under the tyrrany of strained necks!)
17:05:51 <Keymaker> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo................................
17:05:58 <GregorR> >o> <(Though our moths may be between our eyes...)
17:06:44 <Keymaker> oh great, this ink pencil doesn't work anymore
17:11:28 <ihope> "I AM QUIT HAVE A NICE DAY"
17:11:36 <ihope> Did you mean: "I AM QUITE HAVE A NICE DAY"
17:11:49 <ihope> Your search - "I AM QUITE HAVE A NICE DAY" - did not match any documents.
17:12:10 <GregorR> Both of those are grammatically incorrect.
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17:26:59 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/antdata.txt
17:27:55 <Keymaker> my new brainfuck program generated that :)
17:28:09 <Keymaker> i made up a pseudo-random generator
17:28:24 <Keymaker> it emulates Langton's ant on 16x16 grid
17:28:29 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?]}
17:28:48 <GregorR> No random seed there though X-P
17:29:02 <Keymaker> and pushes the state of square to input channel, and forms a byte every 8 steps
17:29:41 <ihope> !glass {M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?]}
17:29:47 <GregorR> Am I a nerd for listening to the music from every Final Fantasy on WinAMP running through WINE on GNU/Linux?
17:29:48 <Keymaker> the program however seems to execute a lot instructions
17:30:12 <Sgeo> GregorR, why do you use WinAMP? XMMS works well
17:30:24 <ihope> I thought up a hashing algorithm.
17:30:25 <GregorR> Sgeo: Bloody input plugins :'(
17:30:35 <Keymaker> btw, time to switch to linux for a while, time to update bf-hacks.org..
17:30:41 <GregorR> Sgeo: Tough to find game-music-dump format players for XMMS.
17:30:45 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
17:30:52 <GregorR> And even more tough to get them to actually compile -_-
17:31:05 <ihope> GregorR: no; you'd have to type the compressed data into a console and pipe that right into the sound card.
17:31:26 <ihope> The decompressed data, not the compressed, that it.
17:32:01 * GregorR listens to "The Final Fantasy Prelude through time" X-P
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18:12:05 <Keymaker> http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/langton.b
18:12:26 <ihope> !bf http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/langton.b
18:12:31 <EgoBot> `9<<<<<GEOw$<<<<<<"0<<<<||dTD7<<<<<0<<<<<<<<<h"QX_'D]ow%
18:13:04 <Keymaker> try with an interpreter on your own computer to see better :)
18:13:26 <Keymaker> the data gets a lot randomer soon
18:15:54 <Keymaker> anyways, i was about to say that the antdata.txt is a bit different than the output this produces, because when creating antdata.txt i had forgot the first five squares true and the ant was facing up at the beginning.. in the version on my page the ant is facing right and the grid is empty
18:16:15 <Keymaker> anyways, i suggest trying it on one's computer to see better
18:16:40 <ihope> !bf http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=574147
18:17:05 <ihope> I think that's generating random data but not doing anything with it.
18:17:26 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon pager bf
18:17:30 <EgoBot> 3 ihope: daemon say bf
18:17:32 <EgoBot> 4 GregorR: daemon censor rhotor
18:17:41 <GregorR> !censor There's still nothing threatening about homosexuals.
18:17:44 <EgoBot> There's still nothing threatening about **********s.
18:17:53 <GregorR> My fundamentalistsafe filter is still on :-P
18:17:55 <Keymaker> ihope: yes, it's only generating data
18:27:23 <ihope> Okay. Now "qn" means "who", "q" means "what", "pq" means "why", "c" means "how", "cd" means "when", "dn" means "where", "cl" means "which" and "ct" means "how much".
18:27:30 <ihope> Or something like that.
18:27:40 <ihope> "q" vs. "cl" is a bit iffy.
18:27:55 <ihope> No question marks are required, ever.
18:28:17 <ihope> Oh, and "c" can also mean "huh?"
18:28:52 <ihope> No question marks are required with these abbreviations.
18:29:18 <GregorR> What I'm saying is that nothing could be abreviated in that sentence, and the meaning is very different without the question mark.
18:30:04 <ihope> The abbreviation for "No question marks?
18:30:20 <ihope> The abbreviation for "No question marks?" is "No question marks vd", though that's not shorter.
18:30:47 <GregorR> So your elimination of question marks has done nothing useful.
18:30:52 <ihope> Well, that's asking for confirmation.
18:31:10 <ihope> "What did you say?" is not "What did you say vd"; it's "Cl did you say".
18:31:33 <ihope> *bangs on something*
18:31:42 <ihope> Or maybe "Q did you say". I'm not sure.
18:32:05 <ihope> Yeah, it's "Q did you say".
18:33:00 <ihope> That sentence originally ended in two exclamation marks vd
18:33:47 <ihope> If so, then that should be "Q YOU SAY?".
18:44:28 <ihope> Every character I send to #nethack-idlerpg will slow my progress down by--oh noes!--5 seconds
18:55:16 <GregorR> The fact that that game exists pains me deeply.
19:01:14 <ihope> 50 minutes to go...
19:06:48 <Keymaker> should it be something like !censor America *******
19:21:06 <GregorR> The purpose of !censor is purely fundamentalism.
19:22:26 <GregorR> Somebody should write a learning !censor script.
19:36:19 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
19:36:39 <ihope> A learning censor script? Like, you give it some offensive messages and it starts to adapt to things that it thinks should be censored?
19:36:54 <GregorR> No, just you can tell it new things to censor.
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23:36:19 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
23:36:21 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda
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00:46:02 <GregorR> Something about images ...
00:46:02 <GregorR> Therefore, I must again mention RXML!
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00:49:03 <lament> man chess is so boring
00:49:11 <calamari> is it that sick xml pixel encoding they came up with on here?
00:49:35 <GregorR> It was indeed a "group effort"
00:49:38 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/rxml.php
00:50:18 <calamari> well, bedtime.. next week hopefully I can do decryption
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10:21:39 <ihope> I suppose stuff like that doesn't happen on Linux?
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10:51:04 <jix> ihope: what?
10:51:38 <ihope> I was working on a wiki page for BF-SC, then the text box blanked itself.
11:02:09 <ihope> My "new" programming language.
11:05:15 -!- calamari has joined.
11:05:33 <jix> moin calamari
11:10:07 <ihope> Hmm... so a nickname [foo\bar] is equivalent to {foo|bar}?
11:19:12 <jix> ihope: yeah
11:19:24 <jix> on some networks.. on some not...
11:19:42 <jix> it's fun if the irc client thinks they're one and the same but the server doesn't...
11:20:28 <ihope> Just what happens then?
11:21:34 <jix> my client assigned op status to me and the nicklist went crazy...
11:26:39 * ihope tries something that may or may not work
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11:39:23 <ihope_> Who needs an IRC client, eh? >:-)
11:41:44 -!- ihope has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]").
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11:53:34 <ihope> I keep forgetting that colon...
11:53:53 <ihope> Why isn't the server sending me PINGs?
11:56:14 <ihope> Now what's annoying is the server sending me messages while I'm sending it messages.
11:59:51 <ihope> Now what's annoying is the server sending me messages while I'm sending it messages.
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12:21:42 <ihope> There, I just got a PING.
12:26:14 <jix> muhahahah: [36;45m HRHRHR!
12:26:50 <ihope> What did you just do?
12:27:19 <jix> ihope: you were telnetting/netcatting into irc right?
12:27:50 <jix> are you using a vt100/xterm compatible terminal?
12:27:51 <ihope> Now everything's cyan on magenta.
12:27:56 <jix> YAY it worked!
12:28:11 <ihope> Can you put it back?
12:30:07 <jix> [5m does this blink?
12:30:34 <jix> ok your terminal doesn't support this....
12:31:35 <ihope> So NOTICE was meant to be used to avoid infinite reply loop thingies?
12:31:51 <jix> ) MUAHAHAHAHA
12:32:07 -!- {^Raven^} has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:32:07 <ihope> And some clients open some annoying popup thingies upon reciept?
12:34:17 <jix> This is going to be fun: (0 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz!
12:34:53 <jix> (1 Better?
12:35:00 <ihope> I'LL JUST HAVE TO YELL, THEN.
12:35:15 <jix> IS IT FIXED NOW?
12:35:34 <jix> (A NOW abcd...
12:35:55 <jix> (B NOW abcd...??
12:37:07 -!- ihope has quit ("Taking anti-jix measures.").
12:37:19 <jix> that was fun...
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12:43:27 <ihope> How long is the PING/PONG timeout here?
12:47:19 <jix> i think it's some minutes
12:47:45 <jix> that's why the GregorRs take such a long time to disappear
12:48:49 <ihope> A PING is sent after some period of inactivity, correct?
12:49:18 <jix> depends on the netowrk
12:49:30 <ihope> How's this one work?
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13:09:37 * ihope tests: \ \\ \\\ \\\\ \\\\\
13:09:52 <ihope> What'd that look like?
13:11:06 <jix> \ \\ \\\ \\\\ \\\\\
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13:19:42 <ihope_> So how would I respond to a CTCP TIME?
13:26:11 -!- ihope has left (?).
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13:31:08 <ihope_> Apparently, ChatZilla doesn't show quit messages.
13:31:17 <ihope_> It shows part messages, just not quit messages.
13:31:55 <int-e> oh well, it's just a web browser after all.
13:35:25 <ihope_> Still, it's a better IRC client than PuTTYtel.
13:38:24 -!- GregorR__ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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13:42:43 <ihope_> ...Which, in turn, is better than XiRCON.
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15:31:10 <ihope_> We need some sort of currency system around here.
15:31:47 <ihope_> You know. Earn money, buy things.
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15:36:14 <kipple> an esoteric currency system? hmm...
15:36:34 * int-e waits for PING and VERSION
15:39:04 <ihope_> NickServ keeps insisting that I have the syntax for identify wrong.
15:40:40 <int-e> it's just identify password
15:40:52 <ihope_> I forgot to put a colon in front.
15:41:02 <ihope_> PRIVMSG NickServ :IDENTIFY <password>
15:41:21 <ihope_> Otherwise it's just sending the bot "IDENTIFY".
15:42:04 <int-e> interestingly NICKSERV IDENTIFY <password> works, too.
15:47:06 <ihope_> Now, one problem with PuTTYtel is that the \1 characters aren't visible
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15:48:42 <ihope_> Of course, it's unlikely that someone would actually say "ACTION runs away", but still...
16:01:54 <ihope_> Okay. The currency is called the >_O.
16:02:39 <ihope_> It's called the Baby, or maybe the Ego.
16:05:03 <ihope_> So it's called the ACTION FIGURE.
16:08:48 <ihope> The <CTCP>ACTION FIGURE<CTCP>, actually.
16:09:13 <int-e> the ^A actually looks very nice here
16:09:24 <int-e> it's a small diamond sign
16:09:39 <ihope_> Hey! That's supposed to me ^D or something.
16:10:12 <int-e> ^A was a smiley there, right?
16:10:13 <ihope_> Well, PuTTYtel doesn't display it at all.
16:11:19 -!- ihope has quit ("QUIT :QUIT").
16:11:57 <int-e> ihope_: http://fuchur.t-link.de/~bf3/screenshot.png (temporary URL)
16:12:18 <int-e> (and it's not a complete screenshot)
16:12:27 <ihope_> Ah. It does look nice.
16:12:48 <ihope_> Anyway, you cannot telnet to an IRC port.
16:13:34 <int-e> hmm. that depends on the server, largely. I guess generating CRLF lineends is a bit tricky.
16:14:19 <ihope_> Is the telnet protocol really compatible with IRC... at all?
16:15:01 <lindi-> telnet protocol is horribly complex afaik
16:15:14 <int-e> yes, but most of it is optional
16:15:49 <mtve> (me is dropping into the middle of discussion) yes, you can telnet to irc. (me goes to sleep again)
16:16:22 <ihope_> So I can disable most of telnet?
16:16:49 <ihope_> I've been using the "raw" option on PuTTYtel.
16:18:06 <int-e> hmm. I forgot how the IRC protocol initialization looked like.
16:18:27 <ihope_> NOTICE AUTH :*** Looking up your hostname...
16:18:29 <ihope_> NOTICE AUTH :*** Found your hostname, welcome back
16:18:31 <ihope_> NOTICE AUTH :*** Checking ident
16:18:44 <ihope_> USER something something something something
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16:21:54 <Engywuck> Now this is actually using telnet.
16:22:06 <Engywuck> The try before was using netcat ;-)
16:23:27 <ihope> My emoticons look like they have two pairs of eyes
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16:25:43 <int-e> ok. that'll be my backup nick if freenode ever enforces their new nick policy.
16:26:07 <int-e> (which regards int-e as 'int' with suffix '-e', and 'int' is already taken.)
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17:45:09 <ihope_> Shorthand taken to a whole new level:
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08:38:00 <nooga> i wonder how's eso
09:01:17 <SimonRC> What was up in the last few days with: [a]"pager" [b]"hawkbot" [c] someone coming on via netcat?
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10:13:19 <ihope_> I'm writing an IRC bot.
10:13:56 <nooga> i'm writing an OS ;p
10:15:05 <nooga> only the very basic kernel functionality and entry point is in assembly
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11:45:18 <nooga> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3406167981875572831
12:10:13 <nooga> how to write lambda f-tion in C++? :P
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19:05:10 <ihope> So far my IRC bot doesn't work.
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22:40:17 <calamari> http://rafb.net/paste/results/jagxaa69.html
22:40:58 <GregorR> You need to cast, for one.
22:41:32 <GregorR> If you bitshift a character by 8 bits, it'll disappear ^^
22:42:39 <GregorR> Erm, how did you print those values?
22:43:04 <GregorR> Right, figured, so there's an implicit cast there.
22:43:11 <calamari> the first one I cast to (unsigned) first
22:44:10 <GregorR> v[0] = ((unsigned long) block[0] << 24) | ((unsigned long) block[1] << 16) | ((unsigned long) block[2] << 8) | ((unsigned long) block[0])
22:44:21 <GregorR> v[0] = ((unsigned long) block[0] << 24) | ((unsigned long) block[1] << 16) | ((unsigned long) block[2] << 8) | ((unsigned long) block[3])
22:44:26 <GregorR> If I'm thinking properly, that should work.
22:44:57 <GregorR> I can't recall if a simple cast "(unsigned)" would cast it to an unsigned int or an unsigned char ...
22:45:15 <calamari> (unsigned int) doesn't do it either
22:45:51 <calamari> maybe it needs to be unsigned char for it to work
22:46:34 <GregorR> If you cast them to an unsigned int, it'll fill the rest with 0xff
22:46:40 <GregorR> And then you'll get that or'd
22:47:02 <calamari> casting to (unsigned char) did the trick
22:49:42 <calamari> v[0] = (unsigned char) block[0] << 24 | (unsigned char) block[1] << 16 | (unsigned char) block[2] << 8 | (unsigned char) block[3]
22:50:07 <GregorR> I'm mildly surprised that that worked, but I'm not sure what cohersion << uses.
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23:28:33 <calamari> got encryption /decryption working (in C).. so now I can verify Linguine when I code it up
23:29:21 <calamari> actually, still need to implement some kind of public key system too, so I guess I'm only halfway there
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