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19:19:23 <_W_> A glorious evening to you!
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21:18:30 <SimonRC> {^Raven^}: Kent, by any chance?
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22:48:00 <nooga> why don't you develop Shakell?
22:51:41 <SimonRC> I can't think of much interesting to do with it, and it's not really a very interesting language
22:52:22 <SimonRC> It's just Haskell written like Sadol with the datatypes of Lisp.
22:53:44 <SimonRC> although I have never seen the | operator anywhere else...
22:57:14 <SimonRC> where di you find Shakell?
22:57:38 <nooga> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Shakell
22:58:04 <SimonRC> oh, didn't know it wa on there
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19:31:18 <{^Raven^}> No, Sheffield is pretty much in the middle of the UK
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02:39:41 <ihope> That's not Spanish!
02:40:05 <AndrewNP> Just as well. I don't speak Spanish.
02:46:04 <ihope> ¿Cómo es... I mean, how are you?
02:52:41 <AndrewNP> Well, obviously I'm new around here. Been poking through the wiki. Good stuff.
03:02:15 <AndrewNP> So what, do I just make myself at home?
03:12:45 <AndrewNP> All right then. Maybe once I get more comfy around here, I'll start posting some of my stupid esolanguish ideas.
03:16:29 <AndrewNP> So, hi, I'm Andrew, and you are...?
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09:24:37 * nooga is ready to obtain his new phone with Symbian^tm ;D
10:21:59 <nooga> don't u like symbian?
10:24:35 <fizzie> Not really, no. Admittedly I haven't really done much Symbian. (They really should release more Linux-friendly SDKs.)
10:44:12 <nooga> i guess that's right
11:21:13 <fizzie> There's that 'sdk2unix' hack, but it doesn't do the newest releases. What kind of phone, btw?
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17:44:08 <kipple> anything interesting happened here lately? (been away for a while)
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17:49:40 <lament> kipple: a bunch of people died
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18:29:32 <SimonRC> The logs are 8 hours behind.
18:32:06 <SimonRC> anyway, it has helped determine when my irssi session was mysteriously killed.
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02:55:28 <ihope> OOH! http://secretnaziytmnd.ytmnd.com/
02:59:52 <AndrewNP> That's just plain wrong. Hilarious, but wrong.
03:00:05 <AndrewNP> But it's a YTMND, so that's about par for the course.
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09:22:27 <W_work> everybody is kung-fu fighting
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13:33:21 <GregorR> Hi for a few seconds before I get disconnected :-P
13:33:30 <GregorR> (Metered with 3min remaining)
13:34:07 <GregorR> I'm in Keswick (pronounced Kezik for some reason). Bye :-P
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02:44:12 <AndrewNP> Just checking: how many people here use the forum? Like, if I posted a question there, would I get a decent response?
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03:21:27 <AndrewNP> Hrm. Yeah, judging by the "last post" dates, it's not exactly popular.
03:29:20 <AndrewNP> Ah well; shouldn't be that hard for me to figure out the answer on my own.
03:29:29 <AndrewNP> Still, thanks for any help you may or may not have been considering giving.
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00:33:20 <Sgeo> Bye for now all
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08:18:43 <thematrixeatsyou> -----------------//+++++++++///////++++++++/-//////*/.---.+++++++..+++.
08:29:36 <thematrixeatsyou> this'll be more familiar: +++++++++[>+++++++<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.
08:38:07 <thematrixeatsyou> check out what i made: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/HighFive
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08:38:35 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
08:38:48 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++[>+++++++<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.
08:40:55 <calamari> I need to hit the sack.. but 5 instructions is quite nice :)
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08:56:11 <thematrixeatsyou> -----------------//++++++++///////++++++++/-//////*/++.+++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------.
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14:32:15 <Keymaker> hey. anyone heard of "nuva" programming language?
14:32:58 <Keymaker> seems wikipedia's hello world in esoteric languages has program "? 'Hello, world!'" for a language called Nuva
14:33:30 <Keymaker> but can find nothing about nuva..
14:36:35 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuva_programming_language
14:36:55 <Keymaker> Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.
14:37:29 <Sgeo> It was in Goog'e's search results
14:37:45 <Sgeo> http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:eu51w9TjAcMJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuva_programming_language+NuvA+language&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox
14:37:55 <Sgeo> Although it's very not-helpful
14:38:09 <Keymaker> seems there's only some archived one..
14:38:32 <Keymaker> i guess it just was some language someone made up and added there.
14:39:18 <Sgeo> If it didn't exist before, someone should write specs
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19:28:13 <Sgeo> Bye all, gone for the rest of my afternoon, but will stay online
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21:42:13 * nooga is going to sit here whole night
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22:55:19 <SimonRC> Oooooooooh: "R6RS has no notion of a top-level definition or expression."
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02:20:04 <AndrewNP> No? That's not an answer to... anything. -10 points.
02:22:17 <nooga> no = something like 'yup' in Polish
02:24:58 <AndrewNP> Not a whole lot. Trying to come up with ideas for my Very Own Esolang. Don't want it to be just another BF. ;)
02:28:52 <nooga> i.e. SADOL was invented accidentally when i was trying to implement a simple calculator in turbopascal (sic!)
02:30:41 <nooga> now i'm having problems with creating somethin' completely different
02:32:35 <AndrewNP> Yeah. It feels like all the really "good" stupid ideas have been taken. That can't be true, of course, but it sure seems like it sometimes.
02:33:13 <lament> just base it on some obscure theory of computation concept.
02:33:57 <nooga> my newest idea bases on perforated cards emulation
02:34:12 <nooga> .: :: .. :. . .. ::
02:34:27 <nooga> :: .. . .: ... etc ;d
02:40:40 <AndrewNP> Nooga: I think that's a compliment. :)
02:47:55 <nooga> i've got nothing to to but i won't go sleep
02:48:21 <nooga> 'cause i'm after redbull^tm
02:49:09 <AndrewNP> Hm. User page says you're in Poland... current time there is... holy crap.
02:49:52 <AndrewNP> Ah, the joys of summer. Too bad my vacation is filled with a job.
02:50:26 <nooga> always look on the bright side of life i'd say
02:53:31 <nooga> using ooold techniques, oold camera and ooold chemistry
02:53:48 <nooga> i bet you wanna see
02:54:18 <AndrewNP> What, a wonderfully geeky project like that? Not at all. </irony>
02:54:23 <nooga> http://www.digart.pl/zoom.php?id=380880&dwnl=1
02:55:12 <nooga> isn't taht retro?!:D
02:57:04 <nooga> http://agentj.osk-net.pl/wysypisko/uploads/hooy.jpg
02:57:25 <nooga> that one is... hehehe stupid
02:58:19 * AndrewNP regrets that he can't understand Polish.
03:01:18 <nooga> no problem... from the left: "Thirst(changed to deer) hasn't got any chance :D" "There it goes again..." "Me - Sprite, You - Thirst" "What?"
03:01:44 <nooga> based on an idiotic commercial -.-'
03:02:02 <AndrewNP> Heh. Product placement: the international language.
03:06:03 <AndrewNP> Hey, it's funny, and that's what matters.
03:06:20 <AndrewNP> Actually, that language barrier was the reason for one of my ideas. Not necessarily an esolang.
03:06:42 <AndrewNP> Just a language that doesn't use any reserved WORDS. With macros, probably, so you can define your own syntax.
03:09:26 <nooga> well... i guess i'm going to bed
03:09:48 <AndrewNP> Yeah, okay. Good night. Maybe I'll work on that idea I mentioned just now. :)
03:10:08 <nooga> at least i will lay and stare ceiling
03:10:17 <AndrewNP> Heh. Still feeling that Red Bull?
03:10:45 <nooga> ok, gn8, good luck
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04:02:34 <AndrewNP> Morning? What time zone are you in?
04:03:35 <AndrewNP> Ah. K. GMT-5 over here. (eastern USA) Or 4, maybe. Stupid daylight savings.
04:04:00 <kipple> ah, yes. I guess its +2 here when counting daylight savings
04:05:09 <kipple> anyway, its definately time to go to bed
04:05:24 <AndrewNP> Agreed. Good night! Or... morning. :)
04:06:07 <kipple> yeah. good night/morning
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09:00:43 <thematrixeatsyou> -----------------//++++++++++///////++++++++/-//////*/+++.++.---.
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09:10:43 <pgimeno> thematrixeatsyou: is your HighFive interpreter PD?
09:11:59 <pgimeno> I have no problem with that, I'm asking just for including it into the archive
09:12:47 <pgimeno> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/
09:15:51 <thematrixeatsyou> cos the only linux pc in this house isn't connected to the net
09:27:36 <pgimeno> I don't know about the system egobot needs
09:28:55 <pgimeno> GregorR is the one to blame ;)
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01:25:53 <Sgeo> Bye for now all
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06:47:25 <fizzie> And neither prints a newline at the end, which is un-nice.
06:48:05 <calamari> hi fizziehow are you?I am feeling unnice :)
06:49:05 <thematrixeatsyou> <thematrixeatsyou> one prints hello, the other prints 104 101 111 111 114
06:49:30 <calamari> okay.. have a cold so feeling kinda blah
06:50:07 <calamari> so I've been working on some graphic design
07:00:55 <calamari> well it's summer so I guess your feet won't get cold
07:10:55 <calamari> seems that all are that way these days
07:14:06 <thematrixeatsyou> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Helen+Clark+is+doing+the+country+a+favour&word2=Helen+Clark+is+a+bitch
07:15:53 <calamari> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=esobot&word2=egobot :( :(
07:18:43 <lindi-> Click here to download a plugin
07:19:36 <fizzie> lindi; Weren't you using gnash or something?
07:20:53 <lindi-> fizzie: well yes, in a debian unstable system, in a chroot
07:23:04 <Arrogant> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=sex&word2=jesus <- much better
07:25:28 <thematrixeatsyou> I like this one: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=tax&word2=your+budget
07:27:11 <thematrixeatsyou> a fight of the month: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Microsoft+Vista&word2=Delay
07:29:48 <thematrixeatsyou> a "funny fight":http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=microsoft&word2=the+law
07:30:14 <thematrixeatsyou> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=microsoft&word2=the+law
07:30:46 <Arrogant> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=my+girl&word2=my+budget imo
07:31:26 <calamari> http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=microsoft+windows&word2=linux
07:31:59 <Arrogant> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=got&word2=milk%3F
07:35:00 * thematrixeatsyou nominates calamari for the outstanding GoogleFight with Linux beating Microsoft Windows!
07:36:15 <calamari> for a fair fight it'd be something like microsoft windows vs Ubuntu Linux
07:36:21 <thematrixeatsyou> bill gates is actally a cool guy, he stopped programming after about 3.1, and does 3.1 crash?
07:36:29 <thematrixeatsyou> http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=steve+ballmer&word2=linus+torvalds
07:37:09 <calamari> on the fight: redhat > debian > ubuntu
07:38:23 <Arrogant> It is probably a very popular fight.
07:38:26 <calamari> rotating a 4072x6288 image takes a while
07:38:28 <Arrogant> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=jesus+porn&word2=furry+porn
07:39:35 <thematrixeatsyou> sad and true: http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=spam+laws&word2=bulk+market
07:40:32 <thematrixeatsyou> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=boyfriend&word2=girlfriend
07:48:09 <lindi-> thematrixeatsyou: the chroot part is there to make it less unstable to use :)
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08:04:57 <thematrixeatsyou> RedGreen contains John Conway's "Game of Life" cellular automaton as a subset within it, and Life has been shown to be Turing-complete; thus, RedGreen should also be Turing-complete.
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19:23:29 <kipple> worlds are usually not very talkative ...
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21:35:58 <pgimeno> kipple: I'm trying to make an automatic translation of http://www.sakabe.i.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~nishida/DB/pdf/iizawa05ss2005-22.pdf (thanks fot pointing out its existence)
21:37:20 <pgimeno> the translation is barely understandable so far but it still helps
21:42:33 <kipple> that's great. though I suspect I wouldn't understand much of it no matter what language it was written in ;)
21:44:25 <pgimeno> he defines the concept of a "data module" as a functional unit
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07:07:22 <thematrixeatsyou> (sung in four-part harmony:) netspliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
07:33:40 <thematrixeatsyou> What do you think? http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/TheSquare
07:39:00 <calamari> why the licensing restrictions ?
07:40:22 <thematrixeatsyou> i mean, the spec basically requres you to have my name on it, but that's all
07:41:07 <thematrixeatsyou> the interpreter requires permission, my name, and source code, you can modify it but you need to ask first and I should say yes
07:42:22 <calamari> the gpl works pretty well for me.. nobody commercial is going to want to use it
07:42:38 <calamari> and hobbists will know I wrote the first version
07:43:03 <calamari> so I guess I never worried about that :)
07:43:22 <calamari> I like the look of the hello world program
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07:47:54 <lindi-> thematrixeatsyou: sounds quite fishy as a legal clause
07:48:41 <lindi-> thematrixeatsyou: who needs proprietary interpreters anyway?
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10:20:48 <Keymaker> pgimeno: hey, that sounds good. i'm interested about it too
10:21:02 <Keymaker> so, link it up whatever you manage to translate ;)
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11:27:28 <jix> moin Keymaker
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15:25:54 <pgimeno> Keymaker: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/malbolge-jap-eng.html (just slightly formatted)
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21:59:15 <ihope> "To run, take a character from the user. What was taken? Output that character, then run." <- programming in English
22:01:46 <ihope> "To run, take a character from the user. What was taken? If that is EOF, do nothing; otherwise output that character, then run." <- cat program in English, version 2. Comes with free ambiguity.
22:02:20 <ihope> "To run, take a character from the user. What was taken? If that is EOF, do nothing; otherwise output that character, then if that isn't EOF, run." <- version 3, with no ambiguity.
22:03:14 <ihope> "To run, take a character from the user. What was taken? If that is EOF, do nothing; otherwise do this: output that character, then run." <- version 4: no ambiguity, and it looks nicer.
22:04:33 <fizzie> I would think ";" unambiguously delimits "if foo, do a, do b; otherwise do c, do d" as "if(foo) { a; b; } else { c; d; }", but maybe that's just me.
22:09:58 <ihope> "A list is the empty list or both a head and a tail." <- a type declaration in English.
22:12:34 <ihope> "The length of the empty list is 0. The length of a list is 1 + the length of the tail of the list." <- a function declaration in English.
22:35:21 <calamari> and small numbers could be written out.. so "one plus"
22:35:33 <ihope> Yeah, we could do that.
22:37:04 <ihope> Just have "Twelve is 12." and such.
22:37:06 <calamari> btw, I have no idea what you're doing, but that looks cool
22:37:38 <ihope> Thinking about an esolang that's English.
22:37:47 <ihope> Or maybe just a lang, as it's not that esoteric.
22:38:05 <calamari> yeah, it'd be cooler if not esoteric
22:38:17 <calamari> then you could describe DeCSS with your lang :)
22:38:43 <ihope> Somebody's already done that, except with a more esoteric (and imperative) rendering.
22:39:13 <calamari> right, but yours would probably look better
22:39:50 <ihope> Any declarative rendering of a program in English is better than any imperative rendering of a program in English :-)
22:39:56 <ihope> Oh, and I just realized that version 2 of the cat program can easily be made inarguably unambiguous: "To run, take a character from the user. What was taken? If that is EOF, do nothing. Otherwise output that character, then run."
22:40:08 <ihope> If we can use semicolons, then we can use periods.
22:41:25 <ihope> After outputting that character, run.
22:41:33 <calamari> probably want a comma after otherwise
22:42:11 <ihope> That'd be the English version of the "main" function.
22:42:25 <ihope> The "to run" verb, that is.
22:43:34 <calamari> or restart, or something like that?
22:43:52 <calamari> I'm assuming it is the end of a loop and you are executing the loop again?
22:44:45 <ihope> It's a recursive verb. 'void main() {char x = input; output(x); main()}
22:44:50 <ihope> Something like that.
22:45:23 <ihope> Maybe "run again" could also be used.
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19:00:29 <ihope> So is there any nice way to get the entire history for a page?
19:00:33 <ihope> On the Wiki, that is?
19:01:39 <kipple> what do you mean? you want it all in one document?
19:02:41 <ihope> Well, I want it all offline.
19:04:26 <kipple> well, i guess you could extract it from the db-dump
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04:06:50 <AndrewNP> I saw the new little projects you put up.
04:07:04 <AndrewNP> Glad to see people are still doin' stuff around here. ^_^
04:10:29 <AndrewNP> Ah good. I'd hope you weren't speaking from experience. ;)
04:10:40 <AndrewNP> With the crack, I mean. Knock yourself out with the programming.
04:21:22 <thematrixeatsyou> Just updated the Circute page: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Circute
04:22:26 <thematrixeatsyou> do you have WinAmp or another thingy that plays MOD/XM/IT/S3M files?
04:25:39 <thematrixeatsyou> If you do, give this a shot, it's a really good experience: http://www.modarchive.com/cgi/random.cgi
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04:31:24 <AndrewNP> Cool, BTW, on the modarchive thingie.
04:34:08 <thematrixeatsyou> Some of my favourites are "Silence" (geniewiz remix), "untitled bonus track", and "calvados"
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04:59:00 <AndrewNP> Hey, at least the price is right.
05:08:09 <thematrixeatsyou> I love this one: http://www.modarchive.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi/B/bonustrk.xm
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01:47:48 <AndrewNP> Hey, are any of the wiki sysops on here right now?
01:51:06 <ihope> I guess I'd be one.
01:51:54 <AndrewNP> Do you have the ability to change usernames?
01:53:43 <ihope> No, I don't think so.
01:54:17 <AndrewNP> Do you know who *would* be able to do that?
01:54:36 <ihope> Probably just Graue.
01:55:21 <AndrewNP> Well, I signed up for the wiki, but I put the wrong thing as my username.
01:55:36 <ihope> Couldn't you just sign up again?
01:56:21 <AndrewNP> I guess I could. But I'm not sure I like the idea of cluttering up the wiki with too many users...
01:57:30 <ihope> You could bug Graue to delete the other one :-)
01:58:53 <AndrewNP> Well, it's not just that. I'm actually User #100, and I'd like to hold on to that ID#. ^^;;
01:59:04 <AndrewNP> But... hang on, I guess I can e-mail him and see what happens.
01:59:57 <AndrewNP> Thanks for your help though. :)
02:08:30 <AndrewNP> Ooh. Good is good. Same on this end.
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17:43:03 <Keymaker> hey, gregorr is back. :) how was your trip?
17:43:35 <GregorR> It was funtastic, working on pics right now.
17:43:45 <GregorR> Actually, working on writing a program to make combining 3D shots easier :-P
17:46:51 <GregorR> Incidentally, this upcoming Monday is my birthday.
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21:33:51 <GregorR> lament: More accurately, combining two 2D shots into a 3D shot.
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14:16:57 <Keymaker> how do i use booleans in c? like having a boolean array?
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14:29:40 <lindi-> Keymaker: ANSI C89 does not do booleans
14:33:53 <Keymaker> well, it's not really important. i'll just spend more memory, but 50k is so small amount these days i guess nobody cares
14:39:36 <kipple> just use bytes, then you wont spend more memory
14:40:20 <Keymaker> i think i should write this in python instead..
14:40:35 <Keymaker> it's getting too tricky in c for me :)
14:40:39 <kipple> I don't think many languages actually implements bools as 1 bit
14:42:19 <Keymaker> [not that i know python any more than c.. string handling is just a bit easier]
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18:50:00 <lament> somehow i doubt Python booleans are gonna be smaller than c ints
18:50:22 <lament> probably 10 to 20 times bigger?
19:00:40 <kipple> but the string handling will still be easer ;)
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20:37:57 <Keymaker> what could cause list index out of range in python?
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21:01:04 <ihope> English in Lisp: (jumps (the (quick (brown fox))) (over (the (lazy dog))))
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22:26:06 <kipple> anybody got a good tip for a good IRC client for windows? I'm moving away from Trillian
22:27:11 <kipple> hmm. with chatzilla I could IRC from work :D
22:29:48 <kipple> irssi doesn't seem to have a windows port :( otherwise it looks good
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23:37:28 <ihope> "What keeps electricity in the wall?"
23:37:36 <ihope> What makes you think it stays there, eh?
23:37:47 <ihope> It's provided on demand, and used right then... I think.
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01:01:19 <ihope> Oh, some... thing.
01:01:32 <ihope> Specifically, a list of questions.
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01:46:08 <ihope> There. I just put Wiki Cyclic Tag on Wikipedia.
01:46:21 <ihope> It's in the sandbox and a user subpage, so it shouldn't get deleted.
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02:45:58 <ihope> Hmm, I can't use subst to make it evolve with every edit. I just get template warning things added.
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04:07:31 <AndrewNP> All right, so here's a question that's been bugging me recently:
04:07:38 <AndrewNP> What is the computational class of the mind?
04:07:48 <AndrewNP> Or to put it another way, Could God solve the halting problem?
04:08:04 <AndrewNP> ("God" here meaning only a rational mind, akin to our own, but with infinite space and time resources.)
04:18:08 <AndrewNP> Though on further reading, I guess that's slightly vague, since there's an infinite hierarchy of halting problems -- for all the countless Oracle Machines out there.
04:18:31 <AndrewNP> What I mean is, could a "god" solve the problem for good old *Turing Machines*?
04:26:34 <GregorR> I don't believe that's known.
04:27:18 <AndrewNP> That's what I figured. Since it would require minds to make a statement about minds. Which is pretty much what screws up every system of computation.
04:27:30 <AndrewNP> So it's just going to have to gnaw at me. Oh well! ^^;;
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18:15:36 * pikhq is probably guilty of spending way too much time on esoteric languages. . .
18:35:14 * ihope_ is definitely guilty of not spending enough time on esoteric languages
18:45:58 * lament is guilty of murdering a bunch of people
18:46:48 <pikhq> I'm only guilty of spending my summer programming when my peers are being lazy.
18:47:08 <pikhq> Being 16, sitting inside and coding all summer is considered abnormal behavior. ;)
18:47:12 <lament> i'm guilty of spending my summer being lazy when my co-workers are programming.
18:49:50 <pikhq> This summer, I have so far designed a new (miniscule) processor architecture, written an emulator for it, and came up with an optimising Brainfuck compiler in Brainfuck.
18:56:38 <pikhq> Just what happens when you get someone who thinks of programming as entertainment. ;)
19:08:56 <lament> don't worry, it'll pass
19:09:19 <pikhq> By which time, my brain will be permanently fucked. :p
19:35:50 <jix> coding for money isn't as much fun as coding for fun....
19:37:18 <jix> but coding for fun doesn't get you a new computer... coding for money does :)
19:37:45 <pikhq> I'm 16. Don't need to worry about that quite yet ;)
19:38:08 <jix> and i have to buy my computers myself... so i have to earn some money....
19:38:37 <jix> well that explains the W in your nick
19:39:06 <jix> today i had to fix a design to work with IE... that sucks....
19:39:48 <lament> Coding for fun isn't as much money as coding for money
19:40:05 <jix> well was a simple design... took only one hour....
19:41:06 <fizzie> Today (at work) I had to use Windows' Shell Scripting Objects, because the only way to automagically (read: no user action involved) move data to/from a phone was to use Nokia's "Phone Browser" shell-extension-thing, and boy was that painful. Among the highlights were the fact that copying single files only works from computer to phone, not the other way around, while copying complete directories work both ways.
19:42:00 <pikhq> Sounds like Windows' Shell Scripting Objects is a very esoteric language. ;p
19:42:50 <fizzie> I guess it would've been better if I were doing it just for fun, and not because I had to.
19:43:32 <fizzie> (I'm 23, and my primary computing device seems to have a broken motherboard and/or CPU, which means I probably need to waste money on a new one, since the non-primary computing devices here are somewhat... less impressive.)
19:44:52 <jix> i just bought a new computer....
19:45:11 <pikhq> My primary computing device is composed of various christmas and birthday gifts.
19:45:33 <lament> my primary computing device is a slide rule
19:45:53 <pikhq> My non-primary computing devices are from people tossing out theirs primary computring devices. ;)
19:45:56 <jix> pikhq: my is compesd of christmas and birthday and 75hours of work
19:46:49 <pgimeno> fizzie: shell scripting objects? are they related to .scf files?
19:48:10 <fizzie> I mean these: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/shellcc/platform/shell/reference/objects/objects.asp
19:48:21 <fizzie> "Shell Objects for Scripting and Microsoft Visual Basic" seems to be the official title.
19:48:54 * ihope_ writes Quantum Brainfuck
19:49:15 <lament> ihope_: we need more quantum programming esolangs
19:49:20 * pikhq proves that basm knows that 1 + 1 = 2
19:49:20 <lament> (i'm not aware of any myself)
19:49:32 <ihope_> Yeah, I don't think we have any.
19:49:36 <lament> ihope_: i wanted to write one for a long time, but could never think of anything good esolangish
19:49:58 <fizzie> (The thing I was writing is a Perl script, so I can only (easily) use those scripting objects via Win32::OLE; and my guess is the "more native" SH* functions wouldn't really work any better, and that would mean writing a Perl XS extension, which didn't seem like much fun at all.)
19:50:08 <pikhq> Wow. basm is friggin' huge. . .
19:50:20 <pikhq> According to wc, it's 24852 Brainfuck operations.
19:51:23 <pikhq> ./basm < basm.bf >| basm.c 11.73s user 0.05s system 98% cpu 11.948 total
19:52:45 <pikhq> And stripping all comments makes it smaller by a few seconds. . .
19:53:04 <pikhq> s/small/fast/ s/seconds/microseconds/ x_x
19:54:01 <lindi-> fizzie: how about just reverse engineering the protocol between pc and phone? ;)
19:55:36 <ihope_> Does measuring a qubit do what I think it does?
19:56:55 <ihope_> Like, if I had |xy> and I measured x to be zero, would the amplitudes of |10> and |11> be zeroed and the others normalized?
19:57:40 <lament> ihope_: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
19:57:54 <lament> ihope_: i'm not sure about the latter
19:58:06 <fizzie> lindi; Actually the phone has three modes: one in which it pretends to be an USB mass storage device, another where it pretends to be a music player and this third "PC Suite" mode where it speaks some proprietary thing.
19:58:08 <lament> the former is definitely true
19:58:57 <fizzie> Well, yes, it's an USB cable we're talking about. Bluetooth isn't really good for moving multiple megabytes, and it has no other connectivity options.
19:59:03 <ihope_> Oh, I'll assume it's true.
19:59:32 <lindi-> fizzie: that should be easy then :) if you have time get usbsnoop 1.8 from http://benoit.papillault.free.fr/usbsnoop/ and record the traffic it generates when you fetch a single file
19:59:53 <lindi-> fizzie: then you can use http://iki.fi/lindi/usbsnoop2libusb.pl to generate a C program that reproduces the traffic under linux
20:00:15 <fizzie> The end result needs to work on Windows. :p
20:00:28 <lindi-> fizzie: libusb works on windows, linux, *bsd and solaris
20:00:55 <fizzie> With the first two modes it'd be relatively easy to move data to/from the memory card in the phone, but in those modes the memory card isn't usable from software running on the phone, so it needs to be the silly PC Suite mode.
20:01:19 <fizzie> I'm also not sure I want to reverse-engineer it. Perhaps I could find some documentation about it.
20:01:30 <lindi-> fizzie: also, somebody else might want to use this functionality even if you can't use it in your work project
20:01:51 <lindi-> "fetch single file" should be reasonably simple to reproduce
20:02:01 <lindi-> unless there is some funny challenge response stuff
20:02:16 <fizzie> I only have access to the phone at work, and I can't really use work-time for reverse-engineering proprietary Nokia protocols.
20:02:21 <fizzie> (Especially considering I work for them.)
20:04:14 <fizzie> Still, I have a "working" (for some values of "working") solution right now, so I'm not sure it'd be very useful to try to write my own driver to talk to the phone. (And if I were to use any internal documentation to figure out the format, I obviously couldn't then release it.)
20:04:26 <fizzie> Someone else might have reverse-engineered it already, though; haven't checked.
20:05:15 <lament> i applied to nokia once and they didn't accept me :(
20:06:06 <lindi-> fizzie: you could just run "usbsnoop" once and send the log file to me
20:07:25 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure I coudln't.
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20:09:16 <fizzie> Anything I do that's related to the silly prototype phone is probably automagically under the NDA I signed when starting there.
20:17:41 <fizzie> Actually some googling would seem to show that there's a chance the USB protocol is relatively unweird: it might pretend to be just an "USB Serial" device, and talk OBEX over it. (OpenOBEX file-transfer-client reportedly works with a similar USB cable and a 6630 model phone.)
20:18:14 <lindi-> i never got this "usb-serial" kernel space driver work so i used libusb instead
21:53:39 <ihope_> Well, it's at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Quantum_Brainfuck.
21:55:04 <lament> it's just brainfuck with extra features nobody's going to use :)
21:55:14 <lament> a real quantum esolang should have qubits as the basic type
21:55:38 <lament> or at least force you into using them somehow
21:58:28 <ihope_> I guess it'd work. You could use a qubit as a normal bit by using Hadamard twice and observing.
21:58:52 <lament> so using that, can you get rid of the Brainfuck tape?
21:59:37 <ihope_> Yeah, but you'd have to include a boolean variable to handle looping.
22:00:12 <ihope_> Using the current looping thing on qubits causes too much observation... then again, maybe not.
22:01:30 <lament> also, are you sure it's "quantum-complete"?
22:01:39 <lament> i.e. does it allow all the necessary quantum operations?
22:02:28 <ihope_> If the Hadamard and CNOT are, then this is.
22:04:53 <lament> you might need to be able to operate on more than two qubits at a time
22:07:29 <lament> in fact i'm pretty sure you need to
22:08:16 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_gate#Universal_quantum_gates
22:08:31 <ihope_> That says you only need to operate on two.
22:08:45 <ihope_> But it does seem to imply that Hadamard and CNOT aren't complete...
22:08:46 <lament> but you do need another operator
22:08:59 <lament> "A single-gate set of universal quantum gates can also be formulated using the three-qubit Deutsch gate, D(.)"
22:09:04 <lament> i think that one's the winner
22:09:07 <lament> since you only need one :)
22:09:24 <lament> and it looks ridiculously esoteric
22:09:54 <lament> it's D(theta), so you need to specify theta in the program itself
22:10:19 <ihope_> Maybe you still only need one, though...
22:10:27 <lament> it doesn't seem likely
22:10:41 <lament> note that "all classical logic is reducible to D(pi/2)"
22:10:51 <lament> but you need other values of theta for quantum stuff
22:11:52 <lament> and their three-gate solution is whacky, what the hell is cos^-1(3/5)
22:12:39 <lament> How do you determine which sets of gates are universal?
22:13:32 <lament> somebody on the discussion page also asked what the hell is 3/5
22:13:45 <lament> a year ago, and got no answer
22:15:27 <lament> clearly a better resource is needed :)
22:22:51 <lament> how do you set a cubit to 1?
22:25:11 <ihope_> I think you can NOT a qubit by applying Hadamard twice.
22:26:45 <ihope_> "However two [Hadamard] gates linked sequentially produce an output that is the inverse of the input, and thus behave in the same way as the classical NOT gate."
22:26:53 <ihope_> http://www.compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~damo642/QuantumSimulator/QuantumSimulator/WebsiteThesis/Qubits&QubitGates/Qubit%20Hadamard%20Gate.htm
22:29:36 <lament> so if you want to set a cubit to 0, you observe it and then optionally apply hadamard twice
22:30:25 <ihope_> Well, observing can also do other weird things, but... yeah.
22:33:11 <lament> i suppose the practical problem with using only qubits for all computation is that interpreting the language on a classical computer would be ridiculously expensive
22:33:32 <lament> but after Brainhype, that's nothing :)
22:34:29 <ihope_> Yep. Ridiculously expensive is better than impossible :-)
22:47:08 <lament> obviously hadamard and C-NOT is not enough.
22:47:32 <lament> when you only have hadamard and c-not, your qbits can only be in three states
22:47:45 <lament> 1, 0, and evenly split
22:47:55 <lament> c-not applied to evenly split is still evenly split
22:48:50 <lament> hadamard applied to evenly split is either 1 or 0 and you can tell which in advance if you know the history of this qbit
22:51:41 <lament> what happens if c-not is applied to two evenly split qubits?
22:56:53 <ihope_> Hadamard is 0 -> + -> 1 -> - -> 0.
22:58:30 <lament> ihope_: there's still a bit of quantum magic going on
22:59:38 <lament> ihope_: i.e. there's still entanglement
22:59:51 <lament> +,+ can be two separate things, or they can be entangled
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23:00:11 <ihope_> Yep. Lemme try to entangle two of those...
23:00:43 <ihope_> That'll entangle |00> and |11>.
23:01:08 <ihope_> I have a simulator here, so of course I'm correct :-)
23:01:40 <lament> the result of c-not(+,0) is +,+ (entangled)
23:02:09 <lament> try applying hadamard to the second +
23:02:48 <ihope_> No; it's an amplitude of 1/2 for all but |11>, which is -1/2.
23:03:07 <ihope_> That's an equal chance of everything.
23:03:42 <ihope_> Well, it's two unentangled +.
23:04:01 <lament> i mean the second qubit
23:04:17 <lament> assuming the first one is the control quibt
23:05:15 <lament> do c-not(+,0), then hadamard on the second qubit - what's the state of the second qubit now?
23:16:38 <lament> what was it before the hadamard?
23:17:03 <ihope_> Before the Hadamard, the second qubit was a |+> entangled with the first.
23:17:19 <ihope_> After the Hadamard, it's an unentangled one.
23:21:21 * ihope_ fills a circuit with random gates
23:25:29 * ihope_ realizes that this is 1024 complex numbers he just asked his simulator to deal with
23:27:33 <lament> how the hell did you get 1024?
23:28:39 <lament> ihope_: aha! http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~patterbj/cs/quantum/fp/univ.htm
23:39:40 <ihope_> Okay, this shouldn't be taking so long...
23:43:45 <ihope_> ...Hey, when'd Hadamard become its own inverse?
23:50:41 <lament> that does not sound right :)
23:51:27 <ihope_> The Hadamard being its own inverse, or its not being its own inverse?
00:12:39 <ihope_> Apparently it is its own inverse.
00:12:46 <ihope_> It wasn't its own inverse before...
00:13:18 <ihope_> Maybe I have to say "However two [Hadamard] gates linked sequentially produce an output that is the inverse of the input, and thus behave in the same way as the classical NOT gate." again before it'll work.
00:13:25 <lament> your simulator broke :)
00:14:58 <ihope_> "The Hadamard gate is idempotent, ie it is equal to its own inverse"... argh.
00:16:39 <lament> but that's just plain wrong!
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00:19:12 <GregorR-W> (something)->H->H->H->H == (something), no?
00:20:45 <ihope_> ...Okay, this makes no sense.
00:21:44 <ihope_> Putting the "control" half of a CNOT gate between these Hadamard gates makes them act differently.
00:21:49 <ihope_> Like, it's not supposed to do that.
00:22:44 <ihope_> "So if we apply [Hadamard] twice to any qubit (in any state) we get back to where we started."
00:22:51 <ihope_> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-quant.html
00:23:21 <lament> clearly cnot changed the state of the control qubit
00:24:45 <ihope_> That's not supposed to happen...
00:28:05 <lament> then your simulator is broken? :)
00:33:58 <AndrewNP> Okay, so I get most of this. But... how do the complex probabilities work for qubit states?
00:34:19 <ihope_> The probability is the absolute value of the amplitude squared.
00:34:34 <ihope_> That is, the square of the absolute value.
00:35:21 <AndrewNP> That much I can tell; what I'm wondering is, if two states have the same "latitude" on the Bloch sphere...
00:35:32 <AndrewNP> It's the same ratio of |0> to |1>... so what's the difference?
00:36:13 <ihope_> Well, the Hadamard gate acts differently when applied to different "kinds" of even superpositions of |0> and |1>.
00:36:39 <ihope_> At least, it used to. Then it stopped working. :-P
00:37:21 <AndrewNP> Ah. Looking at the Wikipedia page for that thing... all this notation is still new to me. Maybe I should just download the QCL and plow ahead...
00:37:45 <AndrewNP> Nothing like blind groping to achieve wisdom! XD
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02:23:43 <ihope_> |00> -> |00>; |01> -> |01>; |10> -> |10>; |11> -> i|11>
02:39:05 <ihope_> That's a function which maps |00> onto |00>, |11> onto i|11>, etc.
02:39:47 <AndrewNP> Oh. So... nothing special, just a function.
02:45:47 <ihope_> And I don't know how to construct it...
02:46:52 * AndrewNP is still studying this thing...
02:47:23 <AndrewNP> Hm. Well, constructing the transform matrix is easy enough. But I don't know how you'd do it with the default gates.
02:47:42 <AndrewNP> Alas, I'm among the unenlightened who don't have Linux, so I can't use that qcl thing.
02:47:57 <AndrewNP> So... I dunno what sort of capabilities it provides.
02:48:49 <ihope_> Well, it seems to be a matter of constructing controlled gates and such.
02:57:36 <AndrewNP> Hm. It looks like you can actually define custom gates for 1 to 3 qubits in QCL.
02:58:57 <AndrewNP> It's a bit cheap, relative to composing the Hadamard and C-not gates, but it gets the job done.
03:00:29 <AndrewNP> Unless your goal IS to do it with only the Hadamard, CNOt, and phase thingy.
03:00:37 <AndrewNP> In which case you're on your own, buddy. ;-)
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03:13:12 <AndrewNP> Who, me? Eh, I'm relatively new anyhow.
03:13:25 <GregorR> Hence the unrecognition :-P
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16:22:32 * GregorR-W considers whether it's wise to join ##brainfuck from work :P
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16:54:42 <ihope> 'Course it is, maybe... or not... hmm.
16:55:43 <GregorR-W> I occasionally join channels to ask legit work-related questions too :P
16:55:49 <GregorR-W> Don't want them /whois'ing that out of me.
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17:21:57 <ihope> Vamos a mirar esta (or something like that): http://nedmposter.ytmnd.com/
17:22:27 <lament> i'm on a channel on another network
17:23:07 <GregorR-W> I want to go praise them for their wisdom.
17:23:51 <lament> not generally a wise channel, but they do have their pluses :)
17:35:35 <ihope> A pretty good YTMND: http://content.ytmnd.com/ :-P
18:01:42 <ihope> Okay, let's see here...
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18:37:44 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
18:37:46 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
18:38:48 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
18:40:22 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
18:41:09 <GregorR-W> Sorry, I borked bf_txtgen and never fixed it :P
18:41:21 <GregorR-W> I put in resource limitations, and it seems that sablevm needs more than 100MB X_X
18:59:23 <lindi-> sablevm is so out of fashion now, cacao is the one now :)
19:03:03 <GregorR-W> I'm sorry I don't keep up with terrible-language technology.
19:03:49 <lindi-> GregorR-W: you can compile python to the same bytecode
19:10:56 * pikhq is getting some midly. . . Odd bugs in his code. . .
19:11:10 <ihope> What sort of bugs?
19:11:18 <pikhq> #iZlude <stdi.h>#iZlude <stdlib.h>Zha b[30000];Zha *p=b;mai(){
19:11:23 <pikhq> Does that look right to you?
19:11:35 <ihope> It looks like gibberish to me :-P
19:11:57 <pikhq> It's supposed to be the first few lines of a compilation from Brainfuck to C.
19:12:13 <ihope> Well, isn't #iZlude supposed to be #include?
19:12:51 <pikhq> What I *really* don't get is how the letter n changes from Z to null. . .
19:13:35 <pikhq> Methinks I might have fucked up BFC's variable code a bit when I tried making the output Brainfuck code smaller. . .
19:13:44 <ihope> Okay, so you have a character array of length 30000 and a pointer to it?
19:14:47 <ihope> Okay. And what's main?
19:15:31 <pikhq> Do you not know C?
19:15:42 <pikhq> main is main. -_-'
19:15:48 <ihope> I mean what's in it.
19:16:07 <pikhq> That would be the rest of the compilation of the Brainfuck code. . .
19:16:30 * pikhq wonders why in the world n, d, o, /n, c, and r aren't right at all. . .
19:16:55 <ihope> Is your entire program just that up there, the stuff in main, and the closing brace?
19:18:41 <pikhq> My entire program is a large series of Brainfuck code, which is supposed to output that. . .
19:29:10 <pikhq> I can't help but think that somewhere, somehow, I've switched > and <. . .
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19:37:37 <ihope> Let D = the reciprocal of the square root of two.
19:39:25 <ihope> If we have a qubit Q, which is either |0>, |1>, D(|0> + |1>), or D(|0> - |1>), then we run it through CNOT using it as the control and |0> as the main input, then we apply the Hadamard to the output of the CNOT and measure both qubits, what happens?
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19:47:59 <ihope> Well, I might as well call the Hadamard on |0> |+> and the one on |1> |->.
19:49:14 <ihope> So if we pass in a |0>, we get |0+>, if we pass in a |1>, we get |1->, if we pass in a |+>, we get |+0>, and if we pass in |->, we get |-1>.
20:17:37 <ihope> This still doesn't make sense.
20:18:23 <ihope> Oh, right. Negating |+> gives |+>.
20:19:44 <ihope> Apparently Hadamarding the first qubit of a directly entangled |++> does not give |0+>...
20:21:50 <ihope> Well, let's run through it manually. We have D(|00> + |11>), and doing Hadamard on that first qubit gives D(|+0> + |-1>), which is equal chance |+0> and |-1>, which in turn is equal chance |00>, |10>, |01>, and |11>, the last of which has negative amplitude.
20:22:16 <GregorR-W> By "let's" you of course mean "let me", since nobody else is paying attention.
20:22:40 <ihope> Yes. When talking in math, "we" means "I" :-)
20:38:25 <lament> because math is a game for kings
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21:15:50 <GregorR-W> Wow, Mono failed on 6/8 platforms :(
21:22:03 <pgimeno> j/k, in spanish mico = mono and there happens to be a corba library called mico
21:23:37 <lindi-> GregorR-W: and what does "failed" mean?
21:24:09 <lindi-> GregorR-W: which bug numbers are these?
21:24:39 <GregorR-W> #asking_in_mono_1, #asking_in_mono_2, #asking_in_mono_3
21:24:52 <GregorR-W> I'm asking in #mono before submitting bugs ;)
21:25:12 <lindi-> ok, i have a friend who does some mono hacking at work
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22:09:40 <pikhq> Screw it. BFC is too damned inefficient. I'm rewriting basm in pure Brainfuck.
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22:55:32 <GregorR-W> Use c2bf! It's even less efficient!
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23:01:19 <pikhq> No tha. . . You can do that?!?
23:01:38 <pikhq> I'm writing in pure Brainfuck, for optimal brain fucking experience. :p
23:06:12 <pikhq> Part of me wants to run away in horror. The other part is far too curious.
23:06:46 <GregorR-W> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/brainfuck/c2bf/trunk/
23:08:36 <pikhq> Does it self-host?
23:09:32 <GregorR-W> cc/tests/test10.c is the best it can do so far.
23:09:53 <GregorR-W> The heap/static space doesn't work properly, and I haven't had time/care to look at it.
23:18:24 <GregorR-W> The one thing you may want to take from things that compile to BF is the function form. Since BF doesn't support functions inherantly, it's handy to steal one of the premade methods.
23:24:24 <ihope> No inherent functions?
23:25:09 <GregorR-W> Then you're in the wrooooooooong channel X-P
23:25:26 <ihope> No, ##brainfuck is the wrong channel :-P
23:26:37 * ihope secretly ditches Glass and ponders Unlambda
23:27:18 <pikhq> I'm actually wondering how to do something like "while input != 255" right now. . .
23:27:35 <ihope> What's the bitwidth?
23:27:48 <ihope> Or the wordwidth in bits, or whatever.
23:28:24 <GregorR-W> Bitwidth dependency is bad, ihope :)
23:29:01 <ihope> In that case, pretty much all the BF programs out there are bad :-P
23:29:08 <GregorR-W> I think you want: duplicate, subtract 255 (ow), not (duplicate and not are algos on the wiki)
23:29:46 <pikhq> It's brainfuck, so (at least on this self-hosting compiler) all cells are chars. . .
23:29:50 <GregorR-W> ihope: Shockingly, c2bf produces non-bitwidth-dependent code. Though the bitwidth does limit how much memory it has, so it'll only work on an 8-bit interp if it only needs 256 bytes XP
23:30:54 <ihope> So how does it do on a 0-bitwidth thing? :-P
23:31:19 <pikhq> It doesn't run, because 0-bitwidth means that it's not capable of storing anything. ;)
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23:36:39 <pikhq> GregorR-W: And, after that, enter the loop, right?
23:37:37 <GregorR-W> Then do the same action at the end of the loop
23:38:12 <pikhq> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants Most useful page ever.
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23:41:46 <GregorR-W> I think I should write the bfbasic/c2bf method of implementing functions into the wiki.
23:42:02 <GregorR-W> Actually, I should make a wiki page for C2BF XD
23:43:54 * pikhq needs to set that down. . .
23:50:34 <ihope> Let's see here... for a controlled-U gate, copy the main input and apply U to one copy, so you have the control, the input, and the results of the gate...
23:51:23 <ihope> Oh, I'll just implement controlled-not and stuff using H and controlled-V.
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00:14:46 <ihope> It's not cheating to use constant inputs and outputs, right? :-)
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01:12:13 <ihope> So what's half a NOT gate, I wonder...
01:19:34 <ihope> And HVH sure is a doozy.
01:27:54 <ihope> Hey: for once I can say I did some fancy quantum stuff to obtain some weird result and I'd actually be right!
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03:35:50 <pikhq> ihope: My Brainfuck code.
03:37:10 <GregorR> You hope your Brainfuck code what? ;)
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15:01:10 <ihope_> ...So CNOT and Hadamard *are* all that's required?
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17:18:58 <ihope_> Hmm, now I don't remember where I read it :-P
17:35:30 <pgimeno> when will we see a qutrit-based language?
17:37:16 <ihope_> Once you tell me how to do a qutrit Hadamard transform.
17:37:34 <ihope_> And a qutrit controlled-V, at that.
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20:20:26 <ihope> Well, there's this question that, well...
20:21:01 <ihope> If I have two qubits that are pretty much entangled copies of each other, what happens when I observe one?
20:22:10 <ihope> Does what I think happens happen?
20:29:50 <ihope> Well, I posted a new version of quantum brainfuck.
20:31:42 <lament> ihope: i think what you think happens happens
20:31:59 <lament> you observe one, the other folds into |0> or |1>
20:34:05 <ihope> So, do you like the new language better? http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Quantum_brainfuck
20:36:17 <lament> yes, if it's "quantum-complete"
20:37:03 <lament> who cares what's controlled V, can you implement Shor's algorithm in that thing? :)
20:37:21 <lament> being able to swap things makes it very much NOT like brainfuck, though
20:37:43 <lament> (which is a good thing in my book since i hate brainfuck clones)
20:39:08 <lament> explain output, i don't get it
20:39:51 <lament> it's a cnot that works on what?
20:40:09 <ihope> Call the current qubit C. Output takes a qubit D initially containing |0>. Then it does a CNOT with C as the control and D as the target, then it sends D out to who-knows-where.
20:40:48 <lament> and every time you use output, D is initialized to |0> ?
20:41:08 <ihope> But it's a new D every time.
20:41:20 * lament tries to understand whether that makes sense or not
20:42:23 <ihope> It just outputs a copy of C that's entangled with the original.
20:43:23 <lament> are you saying that output does not collapse the qubit?
20:43:30 <lament> is that why you're doing this?
20:44:03 <lament> because observing the entangled qubit leads to collapse of the other one
20:44:35 <ihope> Well, I could zero a qubit upon output.
20:44:46 <lament> i think you should simply observe it
20:44:59 <lament> after which the qubit is either |0> or |1>, whichever's appropriate.
20:45:06 <lament> that's how it would happen in a real quantum computer.
20:45:20 <lament> you can't output things without affecting them.
20:45:20 <ihope> What if it were outputting right into another quantum computer?
20:45:55 <lament> then that would be fine :)
20:46:16 <ihope> Well, it's still going somewhere.
20:46:28 <lament> output implies observation
20:46:33 <lament> so you need to collapse it
20:46:42 <ihope> Why does output imply observation?
20:47:15 <lament> but if you want to get a "1" or a "0" out of it, then you have to observe it
20:47:23 <lament> which involves collapsing the qubit
20:48:30 <lament> you seem to get around that by cheating - by collapsing one qubit but not the one entangled with it
20:48:57 <lament> unless i misunderstood you
20:49:54 <ihope> Well, I never said that a classical bit would come from the qubit that was output.
20:50:36 <lament> well, what happens to this D qubit?
20:50:55 <lament> what would happen to it in an actual implementation of this language? (are you writing one?)
20:55:58 <ihope> Well, in a quantum implementation, the qubit itself would go on to wherever it's needed. In a classical implementation, either the qubit would be observed and the result output, or some representation of the qubit would be output.
20:57:20 <lament> supposing it gets observed (which seems to be the most practical solution), would that collaps the qubit on the tape?
20:57:46 <lament> write an implementation!
20:58:10 <lament> or i could do it if you're lazy
20:58:22 <ihope> Oh, I might do it.
20:58:45 <ihope> But lemme reboot first.
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21:39:19 <ihope> So now I have the whatchamies down.
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22:00:14 <ihope> Actually, it turns out I don't need to implement those after all...
22:00:34 <lament> use some existing linear algebra library
22:00:41 <lament> you want all these operations to be _fast_
22:00:45 <ihope> Some existing what?
22:00:56 <lament> some existing library for dealing with matrix operations
22:03:53 <ihope> Well, I'm defining these quantum things with wavefunctions.
22:06:47 <lament> now i have no idea what you're doing :)
22:08:38 <ihope> You know. A qubit is a function taking a bit and returning the probability amplitude.
22:22:48 * ihope ponders the Hadamard gate
22:30:49 <ihope> Well, that was harder than I expected.
22:36:09 * ihope gets dizzy at his long string of type errors
22:36:30 <ihope> I see what whoever said when he/she said that typeless Haskell would be a nightmare to debug.
22:39:21 <jix> typeless haskell?
22:39:52 <ihope> Well... Haskell with all the type stuff done at runtime.
22:45:45 <lament> ihope: what are you writing the implementation in?
22:46:35 <ihope> Haskell, with types :-)
22:47:25 <ihope> Oh, you write it. I'm incompetent :-P
22:49:26 <lament> but i'll write it in non-optimized python for now :)
22:59:59 <lament> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:00:03 <lament> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:00:31 <lament> this sort of requires a good matrix-library, i think
23:00:53 <lament> i'll write it in the least efficient way possible, for now
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23:14:31 <lament> god this is WAY too ugly.
23:14:44 * ihope suddenly realizes that probably the best way to write a wave function is, in fact, using a function
23:15:20 * ihope doesn't use periods at the end of his CTCP ACTIONs
23:15:59 * ihope decides to do so, so GregorR-W will stop throwing periods at him.
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23:17:00 <GregorR-W> Actually, that first period was a "I have no response for that" mark.
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23:22:36 <ihope> Well, I expect that wave functions commonly aren't written as functions.
23:31:10 <lament> oh god this is so ugly.
23:33:45 <ihope> Can you give me a code sample?
23:34:39 <lament> i don't actually have any useful code yet :)
23:35:39 <lament> the problem is to apply the gate to all the possible different states of OTHER qubits in the register
23:43:01 <ihope> So are you using actual functions for your wave functions? :-)
23:43:43 <lament> i dunno what you're talking about :)
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23:51:39 <ihope> Those things that take things like |000> and tell you their probability amplitudes.
23:51:56 <lament> my god i suck at programming.
23:52:02 <lament> my GOD i suck at programming
23:52:05 <lament> ihope: that's just a number.
23:52:10 <lament> it's not a function :)
23:52:23 <fuse> oh god. quantum mechanics.
23:52:33 <lament> i finished classes Gate and Register
23:52:43 <fuse> lament: watcha doing?
23:52:55 <ihope> fuse: writing an interpreter for quantum brainfuck.
23:53:11 <ihope> So the probability amplitude of |000> is a number, but how do you determine that number? Is it an array?
23:53:31 <fuse> is there a specification for that somewhere?
23:53:41 <ihope> Yes, it's on the wiki.
23:54:06 <lament> ihope: it's not an array, it's a number
23:54:42 <ihope> lament: yes, but where do you store the whole mass of probability amplitudes?
23:55:58 <lament> Hadamard = Gate(2, [[st, st], [st, -st]])
23:57:05 <fuse> so the thing between the outermost [ ] is a matrix?
23:57:12 <fuse> sorry, i'll shut up
00:00:18 <lament> holy crap i think this is working
00:00:46 <lament> TypeError: can't multiply sequence by non-int
00:09:49 <lament> ihope: oddly, the problem i'm encountering is that H behaves like its own inverse...
00:10:01 <ihope> It is its own inverse.
00:10:32 <ihope> Well, it was last time I checked.
00:10:45 <lament> isn't it supposed to flip 0 to 1 after two applications?
00:12:45 <lament> if that is true, then my program is working correctly
00:12:57 * lament implements controlled not
00:15:12 <ihope> In quantum brainfuck, you mean?
00:16:38 <lament> i now have a quantum register simulator
00:17:04 <lament> i just need to write a parser and the actual interpreter to make it a quantum brainfuck interpreter
00:17:15 <lament> but now i'm just playing with the simulator
00:18:21 <lament> do you have your simulator?
00:18:36 <lament> can you tell me some simple tests to do with two qubits, hadamard and cnot?
00:19:36 <ihope> Start with two qubits, A and B, both initialized to 0. Perform Hadamard on A, then perform CNOT with A as the control and B as the target, then observe one and look at the wavefunction for the other.
00:20:18 <ihope> The bit you observed should be the same as the bit that's set to 1, and the other one should be set to 0.
00:20:45 <ihope> That is, after observing one, both should be the same constant value.
00:20:59 <lament> i haven't actually implemented observing yet :)
00:21:03 <lament> also, something's broken anyway
00:21:38 <ihope> Well, you don't have to observe anything to see if they're entangled or not. Just dump the wavefunction, and both |01> and |10> should be zero.
00:23:27 <lament> my thing's completely broken, i think
00:28:57 <lament> it passes your test, anyway
00:29:21 <lament> output's gonna be a bitch
00:29:42 <lament> since you're highly likely to collapse pretty much everything when you observe one qubit
00:30:04 <ihope> Well, it doesn't have to collapse completely.
00:30:08 <lament> also i'm not sure how to collapse stuff :)
00:30:36 <ihope> If you have some equally weighted |00>, |01>, and |10>, and you observe the first qubit to be zero, what happens?
00:31:34 <ihope> I'm not actually completely sure, but I think you end up with |00> and |01>.
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00:33:17 <lament> the probability of |10> is updated to be 0
00:33:41 <lament> this in turns causes teh probabilities of the other two two increase from 1/3 to 1/2 so it still adds up to 1
00:33:56 <lament> I think i'll just collapse the whole register for now :)
00:34:44 <lament> nice, applying hadamard and c-not to two bits in a 10-qubit register is nearly instantaneous
00:35:10 <lament> 15 qubits took about two seconds
00:36:17 <lament> the practical limit then is somewhere between 15-20 qubits
00:37:51 <lament> 10 seconds for 17 qubits
00:38:37 <lament> 20 seconds for 18 qubits, and it keeps doubling
00:39:49 <ihope> Well, remember to optimize the things that aren't entangled.
00:40:17 <lament> that would involve completley changing the algorithm
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00:40:59 <lament> i'll do that eventually
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00:41:57 <ihope> If two things aren't entangled, keep them in separate registers.
00:43:15 <lament> aside from the stuff you haven't touched yet, it's nearly impossible to tell if two things are entangled or not
00:44:56 <ihope> Well, just do the ones that you haven't touched yet.
00:47:38 <ihope> Hmm, so apparently the Z gate is |0> -> |0>; |1> -> -|1>.
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03:10:35 <AndrewNP> ihope: I saw your new version of Quantum BF. My only complaint is that it seems designed more for quantum compy _simulators_ than actual QCs.
03:10:43 <AndrewNP> Otherwise, it looketh pretty awesome.
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06:04:47 <AndrewNP> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Quantum_brainfuck
06:05:11 <AndrewNP> Version 2: this one is supposedly "quantum complete."
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17:37:00 <lament> this is from wikipedia:
17:37:02 <lament> "In fact, Richard Feynman (1982) showed that a quantum system cannot be probabilistically simulated by a classical computer. a quantum computer is required."
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17:46:43 <ihope> And added {{fact}} :-)
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17:54:37 <ihope> Found it. And added {{fact}} :-)
17:55:04 <ihope> Anyway, I just realized that the answer is very simple.
17:55:34 <ihope> All I need is a Toffoli gate.
17:57:14 <ihope> ...Nope, won't work.
17:58:51 <ihope> They're not entangled.
18:03:23 <ihope> Maybe it's impossible to make a controlled Hadamard gate. If we have two entangled copies of one qubit, both known to be |0>, |1>, |+>, or |->, and controlled Hadamard is applied to them...
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18:05:43 <ihope> |00> would give |00>, and |11> would give D(|10> - |11>), |++> would give D(|00> + D(|10> - |11>)), and |--> would give D(|00> - D(|10> - |11>)).
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18:08:21 <ihope> Distribute those, and you get |00> and D|10> - D|11> and D|00> + DD|10> - DD|11> and D|00> - DD|10> + DD|11>.
18:15:23 <ihope> It looks possible so far...
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21:41:25 <lament> dealing with IO is hard
21:41:58 <lament> in real quantum computers, IO is performed only on the entire register
21:42:24 <lament> i.e. you set it to some state first, and then you read off the result.
21:42:31 <lament> you don't check individual qubits.
21:57:58 <ihope> Couldn't you do that in a real quantum computer?
21:58:37 <lament> it's probably not desirable
21:58:44 <lament> since it would most likely destroy all entanglement
21:58:56 <lament> any serious quantum computation would entangle everything
21:59:09 <ihope> Ask a quantum physicist!
21:59:13 <lament> then measuring one qubit screws up everything else
22:45:40 <ihope> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/read.cgi?id=20060721&tid=2140436
22:46:41 <ihope> Um, that doesn't destroy everything.
22:47:32 <lament> 13:58 <lament> any serious quantum computation would entangle everything
22:47:37 <lament> that's not a serious computation :)
22:49:00 <ihope> I'm sure it's possible to write a serious quantum computation that can work interactively.
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03:17:59 <putch> Joke on another channel
03:18:43 <putch> Same channel even :-P
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03:31:40 <ihope> !bf +++++++++[>++++++++<-].+.
03:32:47 -!- EgoBot has joined.
03:35:22 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:35:24 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:35:50 <GregorR> Shows the currently running processes.
03:36:27 <GregorR> Of course it does, I wrote FYB :-P
03:37:01 <thematrixeatsyou> [+][%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% etc]:insert code here;*
03:37:37 <GregorR> WTF, since when does anybody use FYB >_<
03:37:49 <thematrixeatsyou> sadly the fyb interpreter tends to be rather crashy under windows
03:38:09 <ihope> It doesn't have quantum brainfuck? Pah...
03:39:14 <GregorR> Yeah, mine isn't actually very much like core wars :-P
03:39:20 <GregorR> But I think it works better given BF as a base.
03:39:32 <GregorR> I started wanting to go with very corewars-like, but discovered it just didn't work...
03:40:12 <thematrixeatsyou> i should actually build my own FYB interpreter, is that OK with you?
03:41:08 <GregorR> I think EgoBot may be flooded off in a sec.
03:41:26 <EgoBot> 1 thematrixeatsyou: ps
03:41:33 <GregorR> Oh, never mind, it just showed the first one.
03:41:38 <GregorR> I thought it was going to show all of them :-P
03:41:48 <EgoBot> Reporting score for logicex-2.
03:41:58 <ihope> So who's going to write a quantum brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck so I can daemonify it?
03:41:58 <EgoBot> Reporting score for logicex.
03:42:14 <GregorR> (/me can't remember his own FYB scripts' names >_<)
03:42:27 <GregorR> ihope: OR you could just point me to the proper one and I could add it.
03:42:30 <EgoBot> Reporting score for nothing-0.
03:42:40 <ihope> Well, lament is supposedly writing one.
03:43:32 <thematrixeatsyou> one thing that you wouldn't know: i have made two esoteric programming languages and i'm actually 15.
03:44:04 <ihope> Oh, by the way, is it okay if your CPU and RAM both burn to a crisp from trying to interpret QBF?
03:44:09 <GregorR> Yeah, there's a life acheivement to be proud of ;)
03:44:19 <GregorR> ihope: I have resource limitations on :p
03:44:44 <ihope> Ah. I'll expect most QBF programs to fail, then...
03:45:35 <GregorR> !bf_txtgen Resource limitations sort of suck >_>
03:45:38 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
03:45:53 <ihope> thematrixeatsyou: hmm?
03:46:50 <ihope> What do you mean by "flash to the qubits"?
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18:29:54 <AndrewNP> We have a couple guys around here trying to work with quantum computer simulators.
18:35:13 <AndrewNP> I trust you saw the Quantum BF article on the wiki?
18:38:52 <AndrewNP> Not sure how well it would work in practice, if it were implemented on a real QC. The "swap" operator, for example...
18:39:15 <AndrewNP> You'd probably have to implement the tape as an array of *pointers* to qubits.
18:40:28 <AndrewNP> Since, or at least as I understand it, the qubits are pretty well fixed within the register.
18:40:43 <Keymaker> i can't really say anything as i understand it not at all :) (quantum physics)
18:41:43 <AndrewNP> Honestly, there's not that much to learn. Most of the quantum stuff can be abstracted away into (admittedly nasty) math.
18:42:05 <AndrewNP> Would you like me to write up a QC tutorial for you? ^^
18:42:30 <Keymaker> well, go ahead if you can write an understandable one, i'm not that great at maths :p
18:43:15 <AndrewNP> Well, you'll need to understand matrices, complex numbers, and an average stats class.
18:43:34 <AndrewNP> I'll try to make it simple. And explain any probability stuff you need to know.
18:44:40 <AndrewNP> Should I put it on the wiki, or just make it a regular file to send to y'all?
18:46:03 <Keymaker> easiest way would be to upload it somewhere once done, so no need to send e-mails. in case you have some page
18:50:06 <lament> i already implemented the tape as an array of pointers to qubits
18:50:30 <lament> it is the only sensible solution
18:50:35 <lament> however i'm still not sure what to do with IO
18:52:47 <AndrewNP> As for IO... ihope really needs to explain that better.
18:53:19 <lament> it's explained quite fully in the spec
18:53:34 <lament> (and what he told me here about output)
18:53:42 <lament> i'm just not sure if it's a good way of doing it
18:54:04 <AndrewNP> Hm. I think I saw that log. But... is there a spec outside the wiki page?
18:54:12 <AndrewNP> 'Cause there's no link to it. :-/
18:54:58 <lament> for input, you take a bit and put it in the qubit.
18:55:24 <lament> for output, you ignore everything ihope wrote there, observe the qubit and output it :)
18:56:03 <AndrewNP> So... there's no way to do qubit IO between quantum tapes.
18:56:26 <lament> if you do want to do that, then you don't observe it, and do what ihope said.
18:56:39 <lament> but that's not a concern for my implementation.
18:59:00 <AndrewNP> Now, doing it ihope's way, wouldn't that entangle the input and output tapes?
18:59:11 <lament> it would create an entangled copy of the qubit
18:59:21 <lament> once you observe one, both collapse
18:59:48 <AndrewNP> Not ideal, but the only way it's physically possible, I suppose.
19:00:06 * AndrewNP kicks the "no-cloning" theorem. ;)
19:00:36 <lament> i'm sorry! the universe is not weird enough! :)
19:01:21 <AndrewNP> No, I think it's plenty weird. On the plus side, that would allow multiple registers to be entangled.
19:01:30 <AndrewNP> Which you'd have to do if you want really big operations like breaking RSA.
19:02:32 <lament> AndrewNP: in practice, i don't think you can do stuff between registers
19:02:50 <lament> AndrewNP: if you could, that would just mean you have one big register.
19:03:13 <lament> i.e. in practice you probably wouldn't be able to set up this c-not gate
19:04:58 <AndrewNP> Probably. The output qubit would collapse before it could get anywhere, at which point it's no different than classical IO.
19:05:42 <AndrewNP> (since it would collapse the control qubit too... right?)
19:08:18 <lament> you know what would be really silly
19:08:39 <lament> qubits are annoying to deal with since bits are a shitty basic data type
19:08:46 <lament> so instead, why don't we use... QUBYTES!!!!!!
19:09:13 <lament> simulating that would be a joy
19:09:21 <lament> 256^n states for n qubytes
19:10:19 <lament> it should still be doable for about 3 qubytes
19:11:07 <lament> at the very least, we could use 10-state objects
19:11:14 <lament> so we can encode any digit with one object
19:11:51 <lament> then we could have 7-8 of those
19:12:00 <lament> and still have the program complete in reasonable time
19:12:41 <lament> of course all "standard" gates would not be applicable
19:13:06 <lament> you would need 10 standard gates.
19:15:23 <lament> however they could be really cool gates
19:15:43 <lament> ie gates that are also mathematical operations mod 10
19:16:37 <lament> you could have a gate that adds two numbers mod 10, for example
19:17:52 <AndrewNP> Cool. But I'm not sure how well it would work: most physical measurements are as binary as classical computing.
19:18:32 <lament> "most" sure, but there're certainly systems with more states
19:19:01 <lament> besides we're not trying to make a "real" quantum programming language (those already exist), we want an esoteric one
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20:13:58 <marinus> Does anybody have a reasonably speedy way to simulate an array in Glass (to be used as a tape for a Brainfuck implementation)? I'm using a string now, but this slows it down to the point where 99 bottles of beer takes 20 minutes to run.
20:16:36 <marinus> did it eat my question or do you just think I should figure it out myself?
20:17:28 <AndrewNP> Well, I for one don't know Glass, so I can't help ye.
20:24:32 <lindi-> what program is that? url?
20:24:45 <marinus> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
20:25:09 <marinus> There's probably more, but I can't seem to find it
20:25:18 <lindi-> hmm, you just need a fast interpreter
20:26:00 <marinus> The reason that it's going slow is thatI'
20:26:24 <marinus> i've implemented the array as a string, so I have to convert all numbers to characters and back every time
20:26:29 <marinus> there must be a faster method
20:26:37 <marinus> or at least, i hope there is
20:29:03 <AndrewNP> Odds are, if Glass doesn't have native arrays or custom datatypes, you won't be able to make a fast Turing tape. Sorry.
20:29:04 <lindi-> marinus: string in what language?
20:30:19 <GregorR> marinus: There already is a BF implementation in Glass, which does use an array implementation :)
20:30:24 <GregorR> I'll give you a copy, just a sec.
20:30:33 <GregorR> And no, there isn't a faster method :P
20:31:06 <GregorR> I used an LLL (it's REALLY bad :) )
20:31:15 <GregorR> Also, since when is anybody using any of my languages? XD
20:31:43 <AndrewNP> Actually... hang on. This thing lets you define classes, right?
20:32:08 <marinus> by the way, why doesn't M.c__ run?
20:32:24 <GregorR> Hmmm, because I didn't think of that contingency :)
20:32:32 <AndrewNP> Couldn't you create two linked lists to simulate a two-stack structure for the tape?
20:32:47 <GregorR> I think a doubly linked list with a pointer to the current member would be the best.
20:33:02 <marinus> gregorR: where is that copy?
20:33:03 <GregorR> marinus: Have an email addy I can send bf.glass to?
20:33:22 <marinus> but don't sell it to the spammers :)
20:34:06 <GregorR> I should've said 'PM it', this channel is logged 8-X
20:34:33 <marinus> doesn't matter, I get +- 30 spam mails every day anyway
20:35:21 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_b)(BF)!>">+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+."(_b)(bf).?]}
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20:37:09 <marinus> it seems to me a way to run arbitrary code on the computer it's running on...
20:37:42 <AndrewNP> Cool. And it's just !help to get the commands, right?
20:39:09 <GregorR> I can add any interpreter in a sane language.
20:39:10 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
20:39:12 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
20:39:43 <AndrewNP> Er, wait, can it do help for each command?
20:39:47 <GregorR> You need a program there :P
20:39:52 <GregorR> Yeah, but it's not very useful.
20:39:56 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
20:39:58 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
20:40:28 <EgoBot> Parser error: Unbound variable: x
20:40:53 <GregorR> (And it's OSS at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/egobot/ )
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20:41:16 <GregorR> I know it's summer because I don't recognize half the people on #esoteric XD
20:41:20 <iano> Hi all. Everyone here know about the ICFP contest?
20:41:33 <GregorR> iano: Just barely heard of it.
20:41:43 <iano> It contains several esolang puzzles in it this year!
20:42:38 <iano> starting with the VM for the UMIX os, and also a roman-numeral version of BASIC...
20:42:51 <iano> and a 2-D functional language :)
20:43:21 <iano> anyone want to try their hand at solving some puzzles in a 2-D language?
20:44:53 <Keymaker> d'oh. haven't heard about that contest :(
20:45:18 <Keymaker> well, what kind of puzzles? i'm not that good at any
20:48:32 <Keymaker> lament: why doesn't this python program work?!
20:49:20 <marinus> you have an array of size 0.
20:49:24 <iano> for the 2-D language, given a sample that does addition, come up with multiply, reverse a list, and... a ray tracer :O
20:50:09 <Keymaker> and how do i get it to be initially 20000-sized and all values 0?
20:50:32 <marinus> memory = [0,0,0,0 .... 0,0,0,0] :-)
20:50:43 <lament> Keymaker: memory = [0] * 20000
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20:54:18 <Keymaker> or is there even a way to check if some string consist only of digits?
20:57:32 <marinus> Why not use a regex? re.compile("^[0-9]+$").match(your string here)
20:58:07 <Keymaker> probably because i don't have any idea what it is :p
20:58:50 <marinus> see http://www.regular-expressions.info/ :)
21:02:22 <lament> >>> filter(lambda x: x.isdigit() and x or '', "hello123world")
21:02:58 <lament> >>> [x for x in 'foo567bar' if x.isdigit()]
21:04:35 <Keymaker> thanks, but what i need is just something that'd check if "test2" consist only of digits (nope), and if "332" (yes). i can't understand why i can't get that isdigit thing working, i've seen it everywhere
21:07:19 <marinus> "123".isdigit() does not work on your system?
21:08:04 <Keymaker> seems the problem is in my program
21:08:22 <Keymaker> i was sure i had tried it outside my program though :\ maybe i hadn't
21:08:43 <Keymaker> it seems to complaing about this line
21:08:43 <Keymaker> if program[pointer].isdigit() == True:
21:09:48 <lament> how is it complaining?
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21:10:46 <Keymaker> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'isdigit'
21:12:06 <marinus> All integers only consist of digits, so why try checking?
21:12:35 <Keymaker> :P hmm. i don't ever convert the data i'm reading to integers
21:12:52 <Keymaker> unless python does that without asking they all should be strings
21:13:10 <Keymaker> and the input can be other than integers too
21:13:27 <lament> mixing data types is Bad
21:13:47 <marinus> you do know that the input() function gives ints when only numbers are inputted, right?
21:14:11 <Keymaker> nope, but i'm using f.readline()
21:14:23 <lament> f.readline() always returns a string
21:14:34 <lament> so your input will always be a string
21:15:07 <lament> but you're trying to use strings and integers at the same time, and that's a bad idea
21:16:21 <Keymaker> well, i don't care about interpreter design
21:16:24 <lament> since every time you would have to check if it's a string or an integer
21:16:26 <lament> not interpreter design
21:16:58 <Keymaker> so, i guess it's impossible to get this kind of thing working
21:17:15 <marinus> no, not if you only put strings in the array
21:17:26 <lament> Keymaker: what are you trying to do?
21:17:35 <Keymaker> marinus: as far as i know i'm doing only so
21:17:42 <Keymaker> lament: an interpreter for my new esolang
21:17:59 <lament> Keymaker: you're not "only putting strings" there because it's initialized to a bunch of 0s
21:18:17 <Keymaker> that might well be the problem :P
21:18:28 <Keymaker> how to get this "program = [0] * 5000" to strings?
21:18:45 <lament> substitute 0 with whatever string you want memory cells to be initialized to
21:19:36 <marinus> but why not initialize it to [] and append() the input lines?
21:20:00 <lament> why not start by learning Python?
21:23:01 <Keymaker> now it works without errors (but not yet without bugs)
21:23:20 <marinus> which language is it you're implementing, by the way?
21:24:01 <Keymaker> yes, yes, my naming gets gradually worse.. :p
21:24:19 <marinus> It sounds esoteric to me...
21:24:50 <marinus> Then again, I don't speak Finnish (or whatever that is)
21:25:04 <fizzie> It doesn't really sound very Finnish to me.
21:25:05 <Keymaker> it means nothing as far as i know
21:25:38 <Keymaker> it's abbrevation that i tried to make sound somewhat nice
21:32:56 <Keymaker> how do i print only string of ascii characters, and only a new-line?
21:34:27 <Keymaker> like, i would like to print "hello" without a new-line attached to it
21:35:10 <Keymaker> (and they said this language was easy..)
21:37:20 <marinus> compared to most of what you find on esolangs.org it is :)
21:38:44 <marinus> but each programming language is good at different things (even the esoteric ones, which are good at being hard)
21:42:18 <Keymaker> this looks fine except infinite loop goes through just once, and program doesn't report error where it should
21:43:39 <marinus> then you're probably almost there
21:43:49 <marinus> but I wouldn't report any errors, too user-friendly
21:45:34 <Keymaker> ah, now the error reporting works -- seems i hadn't any error in the file i tested it with..
21:45:51 <Keymaker> well, luckily errors are easy to add
21:46:34 <marinus> even if you don't want to...
21:50:39 <Keymaker> how do i terminate the program with error message?
21:51:18 <Keymaker> or, how do i terminate the program and display an error message
21:52:06 <marinus> gee, never done that in Python yet... why not raise an error?
21:52:28 <marinus> Traceback (most recent call last):
21:52:28 <marinus> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
21:54:21 <marinus> you can also do sys.exit() to quit
21:54:31 <marinus> you have to import sys first.
21:54:47 <lament> Keymaker: raise SystemExit
21:55:16 <Keymaker> and what about displaying the error message?
21:55:58 <lament> or sys.stderr.write(message)
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22:43:49 <Keymaker> i just can't see why this doesn't loop
22:44:15 <Keymaker> this interpreter, when running an infinite loop
22:44:54 <marinus> nobody here can see either until you show the offending part of the source :)
22:45:12 <Keymaker> it just goes through the code, the variables seem to have correct values (i print to see), but still doesn't work grrrh
22:47:35 <marinus> how exactly are you jumping back?
22:48:41 <Keymaker> it's difficult to explain without explaining the language itself
22:48:53 <Keymaker> but in python it's just a loop
22:51:09 <Keymaker> pointer is the instruction pointer and length the length of the program (which is measured earlier and seems to be correct when i printed it)
22:52:03 <marinus> but what do you do to interpret your language's looping construct?
22:52:46 <Keymaker> i don't want to explain the language yet
22:53:22 <Keymaker> i guess i'll get to bed, it's no use doing anything
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23:18:31 * pikhq is currently rewriting his Brainfuck compiler using pure brainfuck. . .
23:18:38 <pikhq> Damn, is it painful.
23:21:31 <pikhq> Compiles Brainfuck to C.
23:22:29 <calamari> no.. bf to c isn't painful.. c to bf is painful :)
23:22:44 <pikhq> Which someone in here has done. ;)
23:22:45 <calamari> actually most anything to bf :)
23:22:56 <calamari> yeah, and I've done basic to bf :)
23:23:15 <pikhq> Doing it in Brainfuck makes it fairly painful. ;)
23:23:31 <calamari> hmm, seems like it shouldn't be too bad
23:24:01 <lament> it's pretty easy if you do it right
23:29:01 <pikhq> Actually, now that I've stopped trying to make it an optimising compiler, it isn't too bad.
23:29:17 <pikhq> When I rewrite it to optimise, then it should be painful.
23:34:38 * pikhq tries to think of something else to do. . .
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23:46:59 <pikhq> Well, I've got an optimising compiler in BFC already. I'm just rewriting in Brainfuck (and would like to work on something else for a bit. . .)
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01:12:43 <ihope> GregorR: you're not in Minnesota, are you?
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01:44:09 <ihope> So why's your hostmask say mn.comcast.net?
01:44:22 <ihope> Are you behind a proxy, or did Comcast booch it?
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02:12:42 <GregorR> GregorR and EgoBot == same system
02:12:54 <GregorR> * [GregorR] (n=gregor@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.mn.comcast.net): Gregor Richards
02:13:04 <GregorR> * [EgoBot] (n=EgoBot@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net): EgoBot
02:13:20 <GregorR> Comcast can't figure out their own IP scheme :-P
02:18:21 <pikhq> You're in Oregon, Minnesota. :p
02:31:12 <GregorR> More likely Minnesota, Oregon :-P
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03:23:06 <GregorR> Mythbusters = awesome show
03:23:16 <GregorR> Even in >100F temperature X_X
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10:42:32 <Keymaker> right after i quit this channel yesterday i got the jumping working in the interpreter :)
10:42:44 <Keymaker> can't remember what was the problem, though..
10:42:57 <Keymaker> it was something simple, at least
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21:55:09 * pikhq thinks of a pointlessly verbose esoteric language
21:55:35 * pikhq realises it's already been done; COBOL is exactly what I'd design
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23:42:37 <pgimeno> pikhq: also take a look at ORK
23:45:01 <pgimeno> I still have the idea of implementing an ORK interpreter in javascript...
23:46:17 <pgimeno> my other ORK-related project, the CSS decoder, will probably be more painful though
23:47:31 * pikhq looks at it now. . .
23:47:36 <pikhq> Oh, God, that's painful.
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01:21:57 <GregorR> WTF is with people using my languages.
01:22:01 <GregorR> All three mentioned in three days 8-D
01:22:08 <pikhq> We're nuts, that's all.
01:22:12 <pikhq> Which languages, BTW?
01:22:14 <GregorR> [Wait, didn't I write four? Oh yeah :P]
01:22:30 <GregorR> Nobody mentioned 2L, but it's a bit too much of a joke :)
01:22:39 <pikhq> BTW, ORK is freakin' nuts.
01:22:55 <pikhq> You're insane from writing it, aren't you?
01:23:16 <GregorR> There is such a thing as sanity.
01:23:22 <GregorR> There is such a thing as a person.
01:23:40 <GregorR> (That wasn't quite valid code, but *shrugs*)
01:23:46 <GregorR> After I wrote Glass I sort of neglected ORK :P
01:25:50 <pikhq> Now looking at Glass.
01:25:58 <pikhq> I demand my brain back.
01:26:27 <pikhq> I'll sue you for it.
01:27:16 <kipple> Gregor: about ORK. there seem to be a bug in the compiler
01:27:34 <kipple> you can't have function names with spaces
01:28:00 <GregorR> I think that's documented somewhere actually.
01:28:04 <GregorR> I discovered it but didn't really care.
01:47:32 * pikhq thinks of stuff for FBY. . .
01:50:08 <GregorR> Go ahead and write something, and submit it to EgoBot.
01:50:11 <GregorR> We'll see if it beats logicex.
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01:50:23 <GregorR> logicex = teh unbeatable! :P
01:50:41 <pikhq> What's logicex's code, anyways?
01:51:02 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
01:51:04 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
01:51:12 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
01:53:39 <GregorR> It's included in the package, isn't it?
01:53:54 <pikhq> +[:++++++++++++++!>;]
01:53:56 <GregorR> Well, it's here: http://www.befunge.org/fyb/fyb/exa/
01:54:57 <pikhq> !fyb http://www.befunge.org/fyb/fyb/exa/logicex-2.fyb http://pastebin.ca/raw/97730
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01:55:34 <pikhq> What do the x's and d's mean?
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01:55:47 <GregorR> Erm, you just submit one, and it'll run it against all of the ones that are there.
01:56:03 <pikhq> Well, what do the x's and d's mean?
01:56:29 <GregorR> x means that the program in question beat the program listed, d means it was a draw.
01:56:59 <pikhq> It got a draw with logicex.
01:57:12 <pikhq> It had victory over everything else.
01:57:15 <GregorR> That's because you just submitted logicex ;)
01:57:30 <pikhq> 18:54 <EgoBot> 97730
01:57:49 <pikhq> !fyb http://pastebin.ca/raw/97730
01:57:52 <pikhq> Now testing again.
01:58:32 <GregorR> It may have been that when you put both on a line, it confused it :-P
01:58:33 <pikhq> So, something weird happened.
01:58:47 <GregorR> I think what happened is it downloaded the first one, but then grabbed the name from the second one.
01:59:48 <GregorR> You'll note that logicex-2 is actually quite complex.
02:02:04 <GregorR> Incidentally, logicex-2 has been undefeated for more than a year now ... and that sucks :P
02:04:02 * pikhq thinks about something clever to do. . .
02:07:43 <pikhq> I think I'm going to have fun by making it commit all values, just to mangle the code (while also trying to find places to put bombs).
02:08:43 <pikhq> Probably won't do a damn thing, but I can't help but try.
02:09:27 <pikhq> Hmm. I wonder. . .
02:12:09 <pikhq> Also trying to avoid any tight loops.
02:12:19 <pikhq> Which logicex-2 has a lot of.
02:13:41 <GregorR> To be fairly honest, I have no idea why logicex-2 works so well :)
02:13:49 <pikhq> Do I give a damn? No.
02:14:01 <pikhq> I'm liable to throw shit at it, just to see if it works.
02:16:01 <pikhq> !fyb http://pastebin.ca/raw/97730
02:16:37 <pikhq> 19:16 <EgoBot> total points: -7
02:16:55 * pikhq needs something clever, which that wasn't
02:18:07 <pikhq> Look at it, and laugh.
02:18:59 <pikhq> I'll just devise the best way of not getting killed. . .
02:19:57 <pikhq> @+[++++++++++++++!]
02:20:16 <pikhq> That prevents me from getting killed by killing mtself. :p
02:22:16 <pikhq> It doesn't, does it?
02:22:33 <pikhq> :@+[++++++++++++++!];
02:22:52 <pikhq> The suicidal maniac of FYB.
02:24:00 <pikhq> !fyb http://www.befunge.org/fyb/fyb/exa/retired/logicex-1.fyb
02:24:05 <pikhq> Let's see how that fares.
02:25:15 * pikhq shouldn't do a damned thing.
02:25:34 * pikhq thinks that [!] is valid code, and therefore loses.
02:25:44 * GregorR needs to reread the spec ...
02:26:03 <pikhq> !fyb http://www.befunge.org/fyb/fyb/README
02:26:15 <GregorR> Oh, well the problem with [!] is just that it's a tight loop *shrugs*
02:26:45 <pikhq> It's the worst one yet!
02:27:18 <pikhq> It even got beaten by noop!
02:27:35 <pikhq> Now that takes skill.
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02:27:45 * ihope writes a parser for BF
02:29:30 <GregorR> It got beaten by nothing-1? XD
02:29:37 <GregorR> Must've defected and bombed itself.
02:29:37 <pikhq> +[:[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[>!]]]]]]]]]]]];]
02:30:12 * pikhq is having too much fun with this, BTW.
02:31:21 <pikhq> !fyb http://pastebin.ca/raw/97730
02:31:51 <pikhq> My code really sucks.
02:34:40 <pikhq> !fyb http://pastebin.ca/raw/97730
02:35:44 <pikhq> So far, I've only managed to beat nothing. And that's simply because it doesn't defect.
02:35:55 <ihope> ...I can't write such a simple parser, eh?
02:37:16 <pikhq> GregorR: You write something clever.
02:41:09 <ihope> Well, this won't work.
02:41:39 <pikhq> A BF parser is ridiculously simple. . .
02:42:01 <ihope> Says something about my programming abilities, doesn't it?
02:42:08 <ihope> Let's see... I have String -> (BF, String), so... of course.
02:42:54 <pikhq> Think about it: each character corresponds to a function. How hard can it be?
02:43:17 <ihope> [ and ] aren't just functions.
02:44:08 <pikhq> That's the only hard part.
02:47:00 <ihope> I should just be using some parser library.
02:48:31 * ihope laughs over his 39 spaces in a row
02:51:12 * ihope realizes that pattern guards are quite nice
02:56:53 <ihope> Hmm, [ is considered a valid program by this parser... I'll have to fix that.
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03:00:36 <ihope> Oh. After this "fix", it's still a valid program...
03:01:16 * ihope scraps his parser and starts over using some fancy parser thingy
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14:15:03 * GregorR wonders why he got a "hey Gregor" while sleeping :P
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16:50:44 <GregorR-W> Y'know, I never cease to love that /title
16:51:01 <GregorR-W> "The interanational hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment"
16:53:23 <pikhq> Gives you a sense of evil.
16:59:53 <GregorR-W> kipple: The 'cat' example you put on the ORK page is quite possibly the most awesome 'cat' ever.
17:03:58 <pikhq> You know, while ORK is evil as hell, it's actually fairly easy to read. ;)
17:07:02 <kipple> gregor: why thank you :)
17:07:56 <kipple> pikhq: it's kind of like the opposite of perl
17:08:57 <pikhq> Except that they're both insane for serious coding. :p
17:09:02 * GregorR-W considers fixing the no-spaces-in-functions problem ...
17:09:29 * GregorR-W considers the fact that he mysteriously can't ssh home :P
17:11:48 <pikhq> Odd; I'm on it right now.
17:12:22 <GregorR-W> Whichever one you're at, that's not it.
17:12:57 <kipple> that leads to a hosting company for me
17:14:42 * pikhq should play with ORK a bit. . .
17:21:05 <lament> i need to finish the quantum brainfuck interpreter
17:21:15 <kipple> Glass is the newest addition to 99-bottles-of-beer.net :) ( but why did it take so long?)
17:21:19 <lament> i still haven't figured out how to collapse sutff
17:21:32 <pikhq> Meh. I'm just going to do my Brainfuck compiler in it, just to learn ORK a bit.
17:22:05 <pikhq> Jeez. Compared to Brainfuck, ORK is almost elegant. ;)
17:22:30 <GregorR-W> "Its divine purpose in existance is to be the polar opposite of BrainFuck."
17:23:57 <kipple> in other words, a fitting language to write a brainfuck compiler in
17:24:47 * GregorR-W can't remember if there already is one 8-X
17:24:52 <GregorR-W> I know there's a Kipple interpreter ...
17:26:15 <pikhq> kipple: That's why I'm drawn on to do it.
17:26:25 <pikhq> Now, should it compile to C, or to Ork?
17:27:37 <GregorR-W> How about to something entirely else?
17:27:50 <pikhq> Anything you have in mind?
17:28:02 <GregorR-W> I was thinking something esoteric.
17:29:13 * pikhq is doing it with Pinky & the Brain references, just for the hell of it. . .
17:31:29 <pikhq> How's about compiling into 1337?
17:31:38 <pikhq> http://esolangs.org/wiki/L33t
17:33:26 <pikhq> Nah. Not insane enough.
17:34:36 <GregorR-W> Isn't there a 1-1 correspondence of BF-commands to 1337 commands?
17:35:22 <pikhq> 1337 is merely *inspired* by Brainfuck. . . By no means is there a 1-1 correspondence.
17:37:31 <pikhq> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/bit.html
17:38:41 <lament> anyone up for QM questions?
17:38:55 <lament> suppose i have a 2-bit register
17:39:19 <lament> with probability of |00> = 0.9, probability of |11> = 0.1
17:39:29 <lament> then i set the first bit to 0
17:39:38 <lament> what are the new probabilities for the system?
17:41:21 <pikhq> Is Tcl sufficiently esoteric?
17:45:13 <pikhq> So, I'm compiling into Tcl.
17:50:14 <GregorR-W> Has calamari's ^ instruction on the BF minimalization page been shown not to limit the computational class?
17:50:58 <GregorR-W> Because that + memory mapped I/O = 3 instructions.
17:58:40 <lament> i implemented observation
17:59:30 <pikhq> Narf is to readOne Poit.
17:59:34 <pikhq> I'm having too much fun.
18:23:10 <kipple> quantum mechanics is the final proof that God is an esoteric programmer
18:26:12 <lament> somebody answer my question dammit.
18:27:03 <pikhq> I've got one problem here.
18:27:19 <pikhq> Is it possible to do getchar in Tcl?
18:30:44 <pikhq> I don't see a way to do so.
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18:43:01 <GregorR-W> Wooh, Firefox rocks, it's so stable!
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19:29:05 <lament> but i implemented setting bits :)
19:30:36 <GregorR-W> There shall be no complaining about one's ability at math while working with quantum mechanics.
19:31:53 <lament> i implemented setting bits
19:32:00 <lament> however i have no idea if i implemented it correctly or not.
19:32:07 <lament> (because i don't know enough QM)
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19:39:22 <pikhq> ihope_: You, sir, are EVIL.
19:45:33 <ihope_> You're not trying to write a quantum brainfuck interpreter, are you?
19:52:14 <pikhq> I'm just someone who saw your quantum Brainfuck, and am accusing you of being evil for it.
19:52:35 <ihope_> Okay, I'll make it seem a bit less evil.
19:56:21 <lament> ihope_: i think i wrote the interpreter
19:56:33 <lament> however i have no idea if it behaves correctly or not
19:56:53 <lament> ihope_: first for a while i thought it didn't
19:57:09 <lament> then i realized that it's CV, not CNOT, so i have no idea what the expected results of anything should be :)
19:57:52 <ihope_> Okay, just a second...
19:57:52 <lament> like classical OR, AND
19:57:58 <lament> implemented with CV and hadamard
19:58:25 <lament> i could find them myself but my linear algebra is a bit rusty :)
19:58:32 <ihope_> %!!% is a CNOT with the current qubit as the target and the one to the right as the control.
19:59:20 <ihope_> That can be cut in half to get %!% as half a CNOT.
20:00:20 <lament> >%<%!!% makes two qubits with opposite states
20:01:24 <lament> because i'm getting two qubits with the same state
20:01:36 <ihope_> Are you starting with them initialized to |1>?
20:01:48 <ihope_> Initialize them to |1>.
20:01:56 <lament> that's not a quantum brainfuck feature.
20:02:22 <ihope_> Because you can't be sure of anything if you start with 0.
20:02:54 <ihope_> You can't construct something that's simply a NOT gate; you have to do a controlled NOT with a 1.
20:03:44 <lament> if the thing is "quantum-complete"
20:03:50 <lament> surely it ought to be possible to get a 1 from a bunch of 0s?
20:04:53 <ihope_> If you can get from something containing at least one |1> to something consisting entirely of |0>, you can do the reverse.
20:06:04 <lament> anyway, i changed it to be initialized to 1
20:06:28 <lament> woohoo! now they're in opposite states :D
20:06:48 <GregorR-W> Hmmmmmmmm ..... judging by how OSCon always works out, I think it would be logical to guess that if they had a "closed-source-con", the biggest booths would be GNU, KDE and the GNOME foundation.
20:07:52 <lament> ihope_: give me some qbf program that does something
20:08:09 <lament> i don't want to release the interpreter until i'm moderately sure it behaves somewhat correctly
20:08:14 <ihope_> lament: what, you think I've written one? :-P
20:09:28 <ihope_> Well, let me see if I can find something to test the interpreter with.
20:10:06 <lament> note that in my implementation, . observes the qubit
20:10:11 <lament> (and outputs '1' or '0')
20:10:44 <lament> just to keep it realistic...
20:12:48 <lament> GregorR-W: as in, "behaving within the laws of physics"
20:24:37 <ihope_> ...Now where'd qcl go?
20:24:52 <ihope_> I downloaded it, then it disappeared...
20:41:59 <ihope_> Then I rm -rf /'ed, then everything disappeared...
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21:04:03 <Razor-X> Mmm. I had an idea for a contest of Esoteric languages.
21:05:17 <pikhq> ihope_: Thou shalt pay attention. Thou shalt not design another evil language until you hath finished listening.
21:05:22 <Razor-X> Well, since Esolangs are in general programmed by people who have some sufficient skill with logic/programming, why not make a contest in each of the major languages?
21:05:40 <Razor-X> Yes, I hope you do too, ihope_. You and your new evil languages a'brewin' :P.
21:06:05 <Razor-X> INTERCAL, BF, *Funge, Unlambda, and Maleboge were the ones I was thinking of. (Feel free to add more.)
21:06:27 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Now that's just cruel.
21:06:33 <Razor-X> Yeah, I didn't know how many people used/played with it, so *shrug*.
21:06:52 <Razor-X> The idea was that, a group of us would vote on a set of projects for each language, while the Malbolge project would simply be ``the biggest and best program, and while it is a subjective idea, Malbolge is so hard to code in it's very hard to set any realistic goals.''
21:06:59 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:07:01 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
21:07:21 <Razor-X> Lambda being a pure subset of Lambda Calculus?
21:07:45 <GregorR-W> http://www.veling.nl/anne/lang/lambda/
21:07:50 <ihope_> I think it is lambda calculus.
21:08:18 <Razor-X> People had to register beforehand (so that there's no cheating) for each language. On a certain date, we'll release all the project ideas. Then all the entries would be due on a certain date. Scoring would be based on A) Speed B) Size C) Comments (This is for learning purposes, after all) D) Technical Skill and E) Panache. You get extra points for submitting your entry early, but obviously that means you have less time to work on it
21:08:18 <Razor-X> than others, so it's a double-edged sword. The entries would be run and voted by the entire comittee, and I wanted a sort of anonymous voting system (maybe coded in an Esolang? ;) where we would choose our entries, and the winner in each category would receive the respective award.
21:08:18 <pikhq> Maybe a FYB contest?
21:08:40 <Razor-X> Well, as many as the judges have temerity to judge, and as many as the contestants want to program in.
21:08:55 <Razor-X> Presentation. Spiffy interface.
21:08:58 <Razor-X> Goes a long way in Esolangs.
21:09:16 <GregorR-W> panache n 1: distinctive and stylish elegance
21:09:26 <ihope_> So we have to write something in some esolang, or what?
21:09:33 <pikhq> Legibility alone is an admirable goal for some of them.
21:10:04 <ihope_> Stuff like implementing Shor's algorithm in QBF?
21:10:25 <Razor-X> Or something more involved, user-oriented, whatever. The projects would be community voted.
21:13:41 <GregorR-W> (This is a small enough community to be a committee in-and-of itself :P )
21:13:41 <Razor-X> Well.... I wanted the contestants to be seperated from the committee :P.
21:13:53 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Where'd main() go?
21:14:13 <ihope_> Where we're going, we don't need main()...
21:14:45 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Yes. . . ork isn't outputting a main function.
21:15:52 <Razor-X> How does it sound? Do we have enough time to dedicate to a project of masochism?
21:16:20 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/98726
21:16:30 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/98776 Sorry.
21:17:01 <Razor-X> Well, the contest will span a certain number of days/hours/weeks/whatever.
21:17:15 <GregorR-W> pikhq: Not "when the", "when this"
21:17:32 <ihope_> Just make it end whenever it's over.
21:18:17 <Razor-X> Well, I want to set a definite date. The committee will unveil the projects for the registered contestants on day X, and then the projects are due on day Y.
21:18:22 <Razor-X> For cheating's sake and whatnot.
21:19:23 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/98784 Finished.
21:19:43 <Razor-X> You can cheat in lots of ways. Getting extra time on the project. The requirement for comments was added so that people don't build compilers to generate code in an esolang, and other things like that.
21:21:02 <ihope_> Well, isn't compiled code often of lower quality than hand-written code?
21:21:33 <Razor-X> But the judges have to take the time to go through it.
21:21:36 <pikhq> Now my compiler's complaining about stuff somehow getting cast to a int from a char pointer. I'm not telling it to. . . :/
21:21:49 <ihope_> Yep. It'd be pretty easy to see that code's written with C2BF by looking at all the [>>>>>] :-)
21:21:50 <Razor-X> Which is no fun when reading +'s and -'s.
21:22:10 <GregorR-W> ihope_: How the fegg do you know C2BF's output so well X_x
21:22:11 <Razor-X> Also I wanted the comments just for learning's sake.
21:22:14 <pikhq> #include <stdlib.h>
21:22:15 <pikhq> #include <stdio.h>
21:22:15 <pikhq> char *p = calloc(30000, 1);
21:22:32 <GregorR-W> calloc returns a void ptr, you ought to cast it
21:22:45 <ihope_> GregorR-W: the wiki page says that the tape is divided into groups of 5 cells.
21:23:06 <GregorR-W> Forgot I had documented any of that :P
21:23:38 <Razor-X> If everyone's willing, I'll post the idea on alt.lang.intercal and on the Esolangs forum.
21:24:18 <ihope_> Yeah, I think... well...
21:24:49 <GregorR-W> Does anybody read the esolangs forum? :P
21:25:14 <Razor-X> alt.lang.intercal has activity, at least.
21:25:39 <GregorR-W> I'd vote on posting it to the wiki, actually.
21:25:46 <ihope_> Yeah, the wiki sounds good.
21:26:22 <GregorR-W> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest
21:26:35 <ihope_> Eh, what happens if I actually ignore myself?
21:27:39 <Razor-X> Thanks for the Wiki link though, ihope_ :D.
21:28:02 <Razor-X> Ugggh. Time to wrestle with Wiki markup.
21:28:56 * GregorR-W votes that the contest system should be written in Glass and run as a !daemon on EgoBot :P
21:29:11 <Razor-X> Heh. Whatever the committee agrees to.
21:31:11 <Razor-X> I'm gonna ask in the Wiki ;).
21:32:20 <GregorR-W> Of the people on this channel: GregorR, ihope_, jix, kipple, lament, lindi-, mtve, pgimeno and puzzlet are names I immediately recognize as long-standing members of the esocommunity. Plus me :P
21:32:54 <GregorR-W> Even though lindi- is a lurker who just pops in to give insanely useful advice now-and-again.
21:33:20 <jix> and i hadn't enough time for esolangs in the last few months :(
21:33:48 <jix> yeah had to do unimportant things like... homework... earn money to buy new computer....
21:34:04 <GregorR-W> Pff, you consider those as more important than esolangs? For shame :(
21:34:11 <Razor-X> I could be earning money. But nah.
21:34:30 <Razor-X> I have unimportant things like learning Verilog to do :(.
21:34:56 <jix> GregorR-W: homework is less important... but my teachers don't think so
21:35:06 <ihope_> I have to do stuff like chatting on #esoteric...
21:35:08 <jix> GregorR-W: and yes the new computer is more important
21:35:38 <Razor-X> Is not your old crusty machine old enough to run Esolangs?!
21:36:56 <jix> Razor-X: well someone is working on a quantuum brainfuck.. and the interpreter is pretty slow....
21:37:40 <pikhq> Suggestion: roguelike in an Esolang.
21:37:56 <ihope_> Well, first you need cursor addressing in an esolang.
21:38:09 <pikhq> ihope_: Assume VT100. Voila.
21:38:28 <ihope_> pikhq: and is everything VT100?
21:39:06 <jix> ihope_: if you are unable to get a vt100 compatible emulation that's YOUR problem....
21:40:13 <GregorR-W> I challenge you to find a terminal emulator which is capable of some sort of term functionality but not VT100
21:40:41 <jix> GregorR-W: the windows included thing?
21:40:48 <Razor-X> Emacs must have a Wiki markup mode.
21:40:52 <jix> GregorR-W: it is?
21:41:01 <GregorR-W> Yup, I've been forced to use VT100 on it.
21:41:31 <GregorR-W> Mind you, if you don't include ansi.sys you get no color, but that's the only exception to its vt100 support.
21:41:31 <jix> well i never really used windows....
21:41:47 <jix> well does plain vt100 includes color?
21:42:00 <GregorR-W> Um ... actually, I don't think so :P
21:42:24 <ihope_> Well, I don't know just what this is, but I know it has colors: http://www.termsys.demon.co.uk/vtansi.htm
21:43:07 <GregorR-W> Well, color is far from the most important entity here :)
21:43:31 <ihope_> Color is ESSENTIAL when writing roguelikes.
21:43:37 <jix> ihope_: no
21:44:16 <jix> i played nethack in b/w ...
21:44:19 <jix> well never got past dungeon 2 or 3....
21:44:20 <jix> but i do when using graphic interfac......
21:44:26 <jix> so... well you're right
21:44:53 <kipple> pikhq: nice bf compiler :)
21:44:55 <ihope_> What about text with color?
21:45:10 <kipple> btw, you can use spaces in object names
21:45:24 <kipple> just not in function names
21:45:24 <GregorR-W> Just not functions (until the next release :P)
21:45:28 <jix> ihope_: well i think it's better but it isn't as easy as grapihc interface
21:45:45 <kipple> I nominate EgoBot for the contest comittee
21:46:12 <ihope_> Therefore, GregorR is a bot.
21:47:50 -!- GregorR has quit (Nick collision from services.).
21:47:51 -!- GregorR-W has changed nick to gregorr.
21:47:54 -!- gregorr has changed nick to GregorR.
21:48:08 <EgoBot> I accept your nomination.
21:48:31 <EgoBot> I nominate EgoBot and EagleBot
21:48:44 <EgoBot> Erm, EsoBot and EagleBot
21:49:16 <GregorR> Funny how a bot can mistype :P
21:59:24 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GregorR-W.
21:59:39 <ihope_> So you can't use !raw as GregorR-W, or what?
21:59:55 -!- GregorR has joined.
22:26:58 -!- Arrogant has joined.
22:37:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:58:34 <Razor-X> Hmmm. Should I reference myself in the Wiki article?
22:59:21 <GregorR-W> If you're intending to orchestrate this.
23:00:03 <ihope_> Just don't reference a Wiki article in that same Wiki article.
23:00:16 <pikhq> kipple: Doesn't work right now.
23:00:29 <ihope_> Pretend that the wiki doesn't exist as your writing in it.
23:00:32 <Razor-X> I was hoping to make references to the individual language entries....
23:02:17 -!- Arrogant has quit (No route to host).
23:18:26 * pikhq curses at this code. . .
23:21:45 <pikhq> It seems to have trouble with the whole "Brain is to interpret" part.
23:24:20 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/98930
23:25:41 <jix> I'll be back in 3 weeks
23:25:43 <pikhq> Ah. It was an issue with my compiler options. x_x
23:26:54 <pikhq> Wrong option to -I.
23:27:05 <pikhq> Now I'm getting stuff like:
23:27:06 <pikhq> test.c:51: warning: assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast
23:27:08 <jix> GregorR-W: i'm leaving for uhm vacation(?) tomorrow
23:28:44 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/98936 Surely there's something wrong with that.
23:28:49 <pikhq> But, I can't figure it out.
23:29:16 <GregorR-W> Well, since interpreter never returns, I don't see how you anticipate getting to that } :P
23:29:32 <pikhq> That could be a problem. x_x
23:30:28 <GregorR-W> Just put a different function, and rather than "I am to quit", do "I am to finish" (or whatever you call the function), then make finish quit.
23:30:30 <pikhq> Doesn't explain why it thinks that I need to cast from a char to a char.
23:31:15 -!- Arrogant has joined.
23:32:35 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:33:23 <pikhq> Gah. Got . and , mixed up.
23:33:39 <GregorR-W> Well, lesse ... you've got *p=getchar; which is bad, need () there ...
23:34:43 <GregorR-W> Also, you didn't blank your array when you started.
23:38:08 <pikhq> Cleaner ways to get that array made & blanked?
23:44:14 <pikhq> So. . . char *p=calloc(30000, 1);? (C n00b; sorry.)
23:45:50 <GregorR-W> Or rather, char *p = (char *) calloc(30000, 1);
23:46:20 <GregorR-W> Or, if you want to keep char *p outside of main: char *p; int main() { p = (char *) calloc (30000, 1); ... }
23:59:28 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:19:32 -!- cmeme has joined.
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00:40:42 <GregorR-W> That was supposed to be "why look"
00:44:51 <GregorR-W> Marinus Oosters doesn't come on IRC, does 'e :(
00:44:57 <lament> ihope_: You still haven't given me any QBF programs.
00:45:17 <ihope_> Ask a quantum programmer :-P
00:46:04 <pikhq> Schweet. It works.
00:46:06 <GregorR-W> Wow, the Glass 99bob on www.99-bottles-of-beer.net is horrific XD
00:46:36 <pikhq> . . . Almost works.
00:46:54 <pikhq> Got some odd-ass bugs on the compiled code.
00:52:38 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:52:45 -!- Arrogant has joined.
00:52:47 <pikhq> How the freakin' hell is stuff like that happening?!?
00:53:20 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:54:05 -!- Arrogant has joined.
00:54:12 <pikhq> Ah. I screwed up > and <, as well. x_x
00:54:15 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Or that.
00:56:45 <pikhq> And now it doesn't output anything.
00:56:58 <GregorR-W> OK, paste your latest and lemme have a look at it :P
00:57:16 <pikhq> Someone out there hates me.
00:58:03 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/99019
00:58:33 <pikhq> Urgh. Missed some stuff.
00:59:09 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/99020
01:00:17 <pikhq> Damn. ORK's rather tricky to code in, isn't it?
01:00:56 <pikhq> (Yes, the Pinky & The Brain references are crucial to the code. :p_
01:01:01 -!- AndrewNP has joined.
01:03:08 <Razor-X> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest
01:03:20 <Razor-X> I've finished the page, yup.
01:04:07 <AndrewNP> May the most pain-tolerant man (or lady) win!
01:04:08 <GregorR-W> What is wrong with this ORK code O_O
01:04:19 <pikhq> It's output code doesn't work.
01:04:21 <Razor-X> Thanks for the paretheses :D.
01:04:44 <AndrewNP> Uh... aren't you the one who *made* ORK? How can the code be wrong? It's yours to do with as ye please.
01:04:55 <pikhq> AndrewNP: He's looking at my ORK code.
01:05:15 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/99020 if you care to have a look.
01:06:19 <GregorR-W> (Or at least, that's what made it work for me :P
01:06:45 <AndrewNP> What is this... BF... to C... in ORK. That's just wrong.
01:06:52 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:07:03 <Razor-X> What's the purpose of ORK?
01:07:08 <Razor-X> Obfuscation? Hard to program?
01:07:11 <lament> AndrewNP: it's better than C to ORK in BF
01:07:14 <pikhq> I'll just do ++*p;, then.
01:07:28 <AndrewNP> lament: Touche. With an accent thingie.
01:07:55 <GregorR-W> C) It's hard to program but easy to read, and not obfuscated at all.
01:07:56 <AndrewNP> Yeah, I dunno what character set IRC uses. So... ?
01:08:08 <GregorR-W> It uses whatever character set the client uses :P
01:08:30 <AndrewNP> Razor: Think of it as COBOL, except not serious.
01:08:32 <GregorR-W> All the decent ones (that is, sans mIRC) can use unicode.
01:10:00 <AndrewNP> Eh, I don't go outside the basic Latin block anyway -- so no big deal. :)
01:10:21 <pikhq> Mine could do Unicode if my terminal code.
01:10:51 <Razor-X> The polar opposite of BF, eh?
01:11:29 <GregorR-W> I later made Glass, which honestly I enjoy more, and is also OO.
01:11:31 <Razor-X> If any of you can, post it on popular newsgroups/forums or whatever for this stuff.
01:11:44 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/99032
01:12:11 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Glass rocks 8-D"(_o)o.?]}
01:12:25 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_e)(Emote)!"agrees."(_e)e.?]}
01:12:55 <pikhq> Meh. I like ORK, because it allows for some very funny code statements.
01:13:33 <pikhq> (Narf is to readOne Poit. . . :D)
01:17:28 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("And then, Gregor went home.").
01:21:47 <Razor-X> Where on the Wiki should I link to it from?
02:25:12 <Razor-X> Can I advertise the contest on the front page?
02:28:03 <pikhq> Don't see why not.
02:28:21 * pikhq is going to make a change to his compiler now. . .
02:28:44 <pikhq> Mmm. . . Optimising compilers.
02:39:49 <pikhq> Meh. . . I'll work on that later, when my mind is more clear.
02:40:29 <pikhq> And, of course, when I can think of more Pinky and the Brain references for it. ;0
02:57:00 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
02:57:27 <ihope> bf_txtgen still isn't working.
02:57:49 <ihope> How am I supposed to make a BF program that outputs my email address without using bf_txtgen? :-)
02:58:14 <pikhq> Using [[Brainfuck_consants]]
02:59:02 <ihope> I don't have ASCII memorized, so the numbers'd be [105,104,111,112,101,49,50,55,64,103,109,97,105,108,46,99,111,109]...
03:01:50 <ihope> !bf +++++++[>+++++[>+++<-]<-]>>.-.+++++++.+.-----------.
03:11:40 <ihope> Then I need to go through some painstakingness...
03:11:45 <ihope> !bf +++++++[>+++++[>+++<-]<-]>>.-.+++++++.+.-----------.>.>.
03:11:58 <ihope> ...And the other two characters?
03:12:09 <pikhq> Presumable non-printable.
03:13:55 <Razor-X> Did it produce a bell character?!
03:14:07 <ihope> It didn't produce anything.
03:14:19 <ihope> Well... EgoBot didn't say anything.
03:14:51 <Razor-X> Now pause your uselessness for a second and join the contest!
03:14:58 <ihope> That's what I'm doing.
03:15:09 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
03:15:10 <ihope> I don't want to post my email address right to the wiki and all that.
03:15:30 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++++++]
03:15:33 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
03:15:48 <AndrewNP> Razor: the contest to write ihope's e-mail?
03:16:05 <pikhq> It's. . . still running.
03:16:20 <pikhq> Or it just crashed.
03:18:36 <pikhq> Now, that's code 9.
03:18:45 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:18:47 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:19:10 <ihope> Running threads and all that.
03:20:15 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>++[>++[>+>++>+++>+<<<<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>.>+++++++.>----.>+.
03:20:34 <pikhq> Esolangs are far too much fun.
03:20:49 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>++[>++[>+>+++>+++>+<<<<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>.>+++++++.>----.>+.
03:20:56 <Razor-X> Heh, I knew I'd get that wrong ;).
03:20:58 <pikhq> I've got an infinite loop. Whee.
03:21:08 <ihope> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.]
03:21:42 <pikhq> Trying to kill Egobot?
03:21:47 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:21:49 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:21:57 <EgoBot> <CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP>
03:21:59 <EgoBot> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
03:22:28 <ihope> That was quite the CTCP it sent, eh? :-P
03:22:43 <ihope> In a private message: {EgoBot} """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
03:22:49 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>++[>++[>+>++>+++>+<<<<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>.>+++++++++++++++++++.>----.>+.
03:22:58 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>++[>++[>+>++>+++>+<<<<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>.>+++++++++++++++++.>----.>+.
03:23:10 <Razor-X> And that's how you generate the @ baby.
03:23:37 <ihope> If you're using BF to obfuscate your email, you might as well use an at sign, eh?
03:24:14 <pikhq> !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>.
03:24:38 <Razor-X> But mine looks so much more obfuscated.
03:24:51 <pikhq> Oh, you can do it obfuscated.
03:25:05 <Razor-X> Well, it's in true ``escape the robot'' style ;).
03:25:34 <Razor-X> !bf ++[>++[>++[>++<-]<-]<-]>>>.
03:26:38 <Razor-X> !bf ++[>++[>++[>++[>++[>++[>++<-]<-]<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>>>.
03:27:08 <pikhq> !bf ++[>++[>++[>++++++++<-]<-]<-]>>>.
03:27:13 <Razor-X> !bf ++[>++[>++[>++[>++[>++<-]<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>>>.
03:27:16 <ihope> !bf ++[>++[>++[>++[>++<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>.
03:27:35 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:27:37 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:27:46 <Razor-X> !bf ++[>++[>++[>++[>++[>++<-]<-]<-]<-]<-]>>>>>>.
03:28:03 <AndrewNP> !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++>++++>+++++++>++++++>++++++++>++++++++++++++>++++++++++++<<<<<<<-]>+.>.>++++.>+++.<<.>>>++.>-..>++.<++++.
03:28:05 <pikhq> !bf +[++[>++[>++[>++++++++<-]<-]<-]>>>.]
03:28:31 <EgoBot> `@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
03:28:35 <AndrewNP> Not exactly optimized... but I can work on it.
03:29:11 <Razor-X> !bf ++++[>++++>[>++++[>++++<-]<-]<-]>>>.
03:29:15 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
03:29:52 <Razor-X> !bf ++++[>++++[>++++[>++++<-]<-]<-]>>>.
03:31:04 <Razor-X> Get yer hands away from boobs, stupid bot :D.
03:33:00 <lament> gah, i want my qbf programs!
03:35:09 <ihope> You oughta add a QBF category, so lament can test his interpreter :-P
03:35:35 <pikhq> Razor-X: To the bot.
03:35:44 <Razor-X> I wonder if some Slashdot person will report this. That would be funny :P.
03:35:55 <pikhq> I'm willing to submit it.
03:36:00 <ihope> lament: oh, just assume it works.
03:38:15 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>+++[>++>+++>>>+++<<<<<-]<-]<-]>>>++.>+.>++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.>+++.
03:38:46 <Razor-X> Oh well, a BF program nonetheless.
03:39:14 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>+++[>++>+++>>>+++<<<<<-]<-]<-]>>>++.>+.>++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++.>+++.
03:39:47 <ihope> Oh, bf_txtgen needs some extendything.
03:41:24 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...........................................
03:41:27 <EgoBot> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
03:42:54 <AndrewNP> +++[>+++[>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<-]<-]>>.<---.>+++.>--.<-----.--.
03:42:58 <AndrewNP> !bf +++[>+++[>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<-]<-]>>.<---.>+++.>--.<-----.--.
03:43:20 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...........................................+++...........................................
03:43:23 <EgoBot> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...........................................
03:43:36 <AndrewNP> !bf +++[>+++[>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<-]<-]>>>.<---.>+++.>--.<-----.--.
03:44:54 <AndrewNP> ihope: Good luck constructing a quine that way. You'll have to be more clever than that if you want to pull it off. :)
03:44:55 <Razor-X> I've been doing mine by hand, so blah.
03:45:03 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>+++[>++>+++>>>+++<<<<<-]<-]<-]>>>++.>+.>++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.>+++.
03:45:04 <ihope> It's an infinite quine.
03:45:17 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>+++[>++>+++>>>+++<<<<<-]<-]<-]>>>++.>+.>++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++.>+++.
03:45:30 <Razor-X> If this was BrainTwist, I could add an X at the end and voila, infinite loop.
03:46:16 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...........................................+++...........................................---...
03:46:19 <EgoBot> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...........................................+++
03:46:41 <AndrewNP> Ah. Doesn't do wrap-around, I gather.
03:46:41 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...........................................+++...........................................---...+++...........................................
03:46:57 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
03:46:59 <ihope> Razor-X: a program that outputs its own source code.
03:47:35 * ihope points at AndrewNP
03:47:51 <ihope> He did it with his !bf +[.+]
03:47:55 <Razor-X> Who's gonna shamelessly advertise on alt.lang.intercal?
03:48:19 <AndrewNP> Well... okay, yeah. So it probably was my fault. Sorry. ^^;;;
03:51:25 <ihope> !bf_txtgen Hehehehehe.
03:51:32 <pikhq> ihope: ++++++[>+++++++<-]>+.
03:51:38 <ihope> Oh, that doesn't EgoBot that said that...
03:52:01 <ihope> !bf_txtgen ++++++[>+++++++<-]>+.
03:52:29 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen ++++++[>+++++++<-]>+.
03:52:58 <AndrewNP> Well, crap. Who was the one running the bot?
03:54:00 * ihope pretends to download EgoBot and run it
03:54:09 -!- ihope has changed nick to EgoBot.
03:54:23 <pikhq> ihope: ++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.<++++[>+++.---<-]>>+++++[>+++++++++<-]>+
03:54:44 <pikhq> Razor-X: Screw you, too.
03:55:35 <EgoBot> So are you going to !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.<++++[>+++.---<-]>>+++++[>+++++++++<-]>+, or what?
03:56:33 <AndrewNP> I am SO gonna fail you on the Turing test, robot.
03:57:00 <pikhq> ++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.<++++[>+++.---.<-]>>+++++[>+++++++++<-]>+
03:57:18 <EgoBot> Repeat after me: !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.<++++[>+++.---<-]>>+++++[>+++++++++<-]>+
03:57:25 <pikhq> !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.<++++[>+++++++<-]>+.<++++[>+++.---.<-]>>+++++[>+++++++++<-]>+.
03:59:57 <AndrewNP> That's not right. The interpreter must be broken.
04:01:35 <AndrewNP> Oh. Okay, I guess it is. My bad.
04:01:50 * AndrewNP cowers like the pathetic n00b he is. ;)
04:08:25 -!- EgoBot has changed nick to ihope.
04:08:48 * ihope turns pikhq around
04:09:40 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:10:20 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
04:10:39 <AndrewNP> GregorR: Yeah. Sorry 'bout that.
04:10:54 <AndrewNP> GregorR: I did my best to deflect the blame, I truly did.
04:11:02 * GregorR makes a quick change that should hopefully make it more robust.
04:11:13 <GregorR> This, however, will crash it:
04:11:15 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:11:42 <AndrewNP> Ah. Now I don't feel so bad about killing it.
04:11:46 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:11:46 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:11:52 <Razor-X> Networking capabilities should be added to INTERCAL.
04:11:54 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:12:02 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
04:12:27 <Razor-X> Heck, someone should write a minimal bot core in it and wrap it in some other language for for network support.
04:13:08 <GregorR> Razor-X: Just put it under netcat
04:13:18 <GregorR> EgoBot doesn't have any inbuilt network support, I use netcat.
04:13:27 * pikhq is tempted to write an IRC bot in l33t. . .
04:13:37 <pikhq> GregorR: What's it written in?
04:14:09 <Razor-X> Nah. Better C++ than C, I say.
04:14:16 <Razor-X> That's not saying much though.
04:14:38 <pikhq> Actually, I'm just saying -_-' for it being without network support in spite of being in C++.
04:15:13 <Razor-X> What'd you do, write a script that negotiates the IRC connection then starts the bot?
04:15:24 <GregorR> No, the bot negotiates the IRC connection.
04:15:33 <GregorR> The only thing it doesn't do is connect()
04:15:38 <Razor-X> WOW. That's even lazier :D.
04:15:41 <pikhq> Jebus. It'd take *two* *lines* to do. . .
04:16:02 <GregorR> Hey, it works, so I don't care :P
04:16:39 <GregorR> How dumb do you think I am?
04:16:40 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
04:16:42 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
04:16:52 <pikhq> GregorR: Never know.
04:17:04 <GregorR> Hypothetically, !reload should work now (it'll quit, but it'll come back up)
04:17:07 <ihope> Oh, donotputthebaby.com doesn't seem to be working.
04:17:08 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:17:38 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:17:52 <AndrewNP> pikhq: Now, now, we don't need any anti-Semitism here.
04:18:12 <pikhq> !bf-textgen EgoBot sucks.
04:18:19 <Razor-X> Jew and jew'r ST00PID ST00PID Esoteric languages!
04:18:23 <GregorR> It's bf_txtgen, and that doesn't work right now.
04:18:24 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
04:18:24 <ihope> !bf_txtgen Foobar.
04:18:26 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
04:18:28 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
04:18:29 <GregorR> Because I put on resource limitations :P
04:18:34 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen Did I mention you suck?
04:18:36 <EgoBot> sablevm: cannot create vm
04:18:41 <pikhq> GregorR: Fix it. x_x
04:19:01 <pikhq> Fine. Break it until it works.
04:19:10 <Razor-X> We know that always works.
04:19:21 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:19:21 <pikhq> Just look at Perl for proof.
04:19:41 <GregorR> Glass is significantly cleaner.
04:19:52 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:19:56 <AndrewNP> I think them's fighting words. At least they would be if I gave a damn about Perl.
04:19:58 <ihope> QBF is very clean.
04:19:59 <GregorR> !bf_txtgen There, shut up.
04:20:09 <GregorR> (Takes a while to gen, it's a genetic algo)
04:20:16 <EgoBot> 130 ++++++++++++++[>+++>++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>>.++++++++++++++++++++.---.>++.<.<++.>>>++++.<+.<+++.+++++++++++++.>+.>.<<.-----.<++. [333]
04:20:25 <ihope> Except for the fact that loops use observation. Then again, that's just an easy way to observe something, aye?
04:20:30 <GregorR> !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++>++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>>.++++++++++++++++++++.---.>++.<.<++.>>>++++.<+.<+++.+++++++++++++.>+.>.<<.-----.<++.
04:20:37 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen Schweet.
04:20:38 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
04:20:50 <GregorR> Razor-X's should be quite short actually :P
04:21:02 <Razor-X> I want to test the quality of its code!
04:21:04 <EgoBot> 87 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++<<<<-]>-.>+.+++++.>+++++++.<---..>---.>++++. [516]
04:21:04 <GregorR> calamari (who isn't here) wrote it, so we'll see if he's good :P
04:21:45 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
04:21:50 <pikhq> Damn, it's going slowly. . .
04:21:53 <AndrewNP> Okay, now THAT one I didn't break.
04:22:08 <GregorR> It's still running *shrugs*
04:22:22 <EgoBot> 57 ++++++++[>++++++>>><<<<-]>.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. [365]
04:22:42 <pikhq> !bf ++++++++[>++++++>>><<<<-]>.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.
04:22:44 <Razor-X> I guess I broke t3h bot ;).
04:23:00 <EgoBot> 341 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++.++++++++++++++.....>>+++........<<..>+++.>....<..>.<..>......<.>.<.>.<<..>..>>+++..<<<..>.<..>...<...>...>....<..>......<..<..>>>..<<.<.>..>.....<..>..<.<.>....<.......>.>...>.<<..<.>.>.........>.....<...<.>..>..<.>.<....>..<.........>..<.>.....<<.>.>..<<...>>....<<..<.>>..>.<..<.>.. [965]
04:23:18 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>+++.++++++++++++++.....>>+++........<<..>+++.>....<..>.<..>......<.>.<.>.<<..>..>>+++..<<<..>.<..>...<...>...>....<..>......<..<..>>>..<<.<.>..>.....<..>..<.<.>....<.......>.>...>.<<..<.>.>.........>.....<...<.>..>..<.>.<....>..<.........>..<.>.....<<.>.>..<<...>>....<<..<.>>..>.<..<.>..
04:23:22 <EgoBot> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
04:23:30 <pikhq> I'll beat it in a sec.
04:23:50 <GregorR> Committed the latest egobot to files archive.
04:23:52 <ihope> !bf_txtgen !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
04:24:34 <EgoBot> 89 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++><<<<-]>++.>------.+.<.>-.>------. [201]
04:24:53 <ihope> !ps +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++><<<<-]>++.>------.+.<.>-.>------.
04:24:58 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++><<<<-]>++.>------.+.<.>-.>------.
04:25:00 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++><<<<-]>++.>------.+.<.>-.>------.
04:25:08 <EgoBot> 376 ++++++++[>+++++>++++>++++++++><<<<-]>>.+.+.+.+.+.+.<-.>++.+.<+++.>++.+.<+++.>++.<++.+.>+++.+.+.+.+.<++++++.+.+.+.>+++++.<++.+.+.+.>+++++.>.+.+.+.+.+.+.<++++++++.>++.+.+.+.<+++++.+.+.+.<++++++++++++++++++.+.>+++.+.+.<++++.+.+.>>+++++++++++++.<+++++.+.<++++.+.+.+.+.+.+.>>++++++++++.+.<++++++++++.+.+.+.+.+.>+++++++.+.+.+.<<+++++++++++++.+.+.+.+.+.>>+++++++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.
04:25:41 <Razor-X> Come on. That has to be dead simple.
04:25:42 <GregorR> Hm, when was calamari last on 8-X
04:25:50 <EgoBot> 44 ++++++++++[>++++++++++>>><<<<-]>+........... [178]
04:25:52 <pikhq> ++++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>-.++++++++++++++>++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++<-]>--[<<.>>-]
04:25:59 <ihope> eeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeee?
04:26:03 <pikhq> !bf ++++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>-.++++++++++++++>++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++<-]>--[<<.>>-]
04:26:07 <Razor-X> So if I had a W, it becomes infinitely more complex ?
04:26:08 <EgoBot> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
04:26:20 <AndrewNP> All right: new plan. Turn "eeeeeeeeee" into the basis of an esolang.
04:26:42 <ihope> Wait, did you say Udage?
04:26:55 <GregorR> If EgoBot crashes, I anticipate that the culprit will commit ritualistic suicide.
04:27:14 <AndrewNP> Good thing I didn't know that rule before. Seppuku sucks.
04:27:23 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen If EgoBot crashes, I anticipate that the culprit will commit ritualistic suicide.
04:27:26 <EgoBot> 131 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>>+++.>+++.>+.<<.>.>++++++++.<<.>.<<+.>.>.++++++++++++++. [958]
04:27:46 <Razor-X> Hmmm. I wanna see an integer dump of the stack.
04:27:59 <AndrewNP> And I want a million dollars. What's your point?
04:28:22 <EgoBot> 96 ++++++++++++++[>>++++++++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++++++++<<<<-]>>+++++++.>-.+++++.<--.>>+++++.<. [154]
04:28:28 <EgoBot> 940 ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>+++.<++.>>++.<----.<+.<+.>>---.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.>.<<----.>--.<--.<++++.-----------.---.>>+.>++++++++++++.------------.<<<----------------------------.>>>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<+++++++++++++.>+.-----------.>++.<.<++.>>--.<<++++.>----.<<------
04:28:35 <ihope> Don't ask me what it means.
04:28:37 <pikhq> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>+++.<++.>>++.<----.<+.<+.>>---.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.>.<<----.>--.<--.<++++.-----------.---.>>+.>++++++++++++.------------.<<<----------------------------.>>>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<+++++++++++++.>+.-----------.>++.<.<++.>>--.<<++++.>----.<<------
04:28:40 <EgoBot> If EgoBot crashes, I anticipate
04:29:00 <AndrewNP> If EgoBot crashes, it can't anticipate anything.
04:29:08 <EgoBot> 54 +++++++++++++++[>++++>++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.>-.<++. [249]
04:29:40 <ihope> Now, somebody needs to find a fixed point thingy of !bf_txtgen.
04:29:50 <ihope> I'll try brute force, eh?
04:30:07 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen そうかもしれません。けど、あの時まで、祥子と一勝に永遠にいるよ。
04:30:12 <EgoBot> 29 ++++++[>+++++++++>>><<<<-]>-. [20]
04:30:15 <AndrewNP> Fixed point? You mean just a quine?
04:30:27 <ihope> A quine that survives !bf_txtgen.
04:30:42 <AndrewNP> Ah. Now THAT is a worthy challenge.
04:30:45 <ihope> !bf 29 ++++++[>+++++++++>>><<<<-]>-. [20]
04:30:50 * AndrewNP kicks the stupid stupid program.
04:31:08 <Razor-X> By the way, if you understood that....
04:31:12 <Razor-X> Don't ask me to explain &&.
04:31:16 <EgoBot> 1087 +++++++++++++[>++++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>>++++++.<-.<+.>>.>-.<<+++++.>.<-----.++++++++++.>.>+.<<---------.>.>-.<<<------.>>.<.>>+++++++++++.<.<-.>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.<.<++++.>>.<+.<--------.>>.<<-------------------.++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
04:31:28 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++[>++++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>>++++++.<-.<+.>>.>-.<<+++++.>.<-----.++++++++++.>.>+.<<---------.>.>-.<<<------.>>.<.>>+++++++++++.<.<-.>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.<.<++++.>>.<+.<--------.>>.<<-------------------.++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
04:31:30 <pikhq> That's horribly inefficient.
04:31:56 <Razor-X> Look at that incredible string at the end.
04:32:09 <Razor-X> I guess Japanese confounds it.
04:32:29 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen +++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.........
04:32:49 <pikhq> !bf +++++++[>+++++++++<-]>......... was what I meant
04:33:06 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen Nun, En mia uzebligoj, mi VERE MALFERMAS ĈI TIUN BOTON!!!
04:33:06 <EgoBot> 81 ++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++++++><<<<-]>-.>---.>--. [644]
04:33:08 <EgoBot> 112 +++++++++++++++[>+++>+++>++++>++++++<<<<-]>--..>--.<...>.>>+.<++.<<..>...<....>>--.<++.>>++.<++.<+..<+++..>..... [294]
04:33:25 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++>+++>++++>++++++<<<<-]>--..>--.<...>.>>+.<++.<<..>...<....>>--.<++.>>++.<++.<+..<+++..>.....
04:33:28 <EgoBot> +++++++[>+++++++++<-]>.........
04:33:44 <EgoBot> 659 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++>+++++++++>++++++<<<<-]>>>>.<.-------.<+++++.------------.>>---------.<.<.>-.----.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>>++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.<----.---.>--------------.<+++++++.--.>+++.-----.<<++++++++++++.------------.>++++++.>-.<<.>-----------------------.-----------------.>-----------------------.<.<.>>-----.<----.<+++++++++++++++++++++
04:33:54 <pikhq> !bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++>+++++++++>++++++<<<<-]>>>>.<.-------.<+++++.------------.>>---------.<.<.>-.----.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>>++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.<----.---.>--------------.<+++++++.--.>+++.-----.<<++++++++++++.------------.>++++++.>-.<<.>-----------------------.-----------------.>-----------------------.<.<.>>-----.<----.<+++++++++++++++++++++
04:33:56 <EgoBot> Nun, En mia uzebligoj, mi VERE MA
04:33:58 <Razor-X> Obviously it's not very strong out of English.
04:34:26 <ihope> BF is a nice decompression algorithm.
04:34:33 <ihope> The problem is compression.
04:35:02 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen Vraiment! Je vais trouver l'amour!
04:35:28 <EgoBot> 250 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++>+++++<<<<-]>++.>++.<+++++++++++.++++++++.>-----.<----.>+.++++++.>+++++.-.>++++.<<<.>>.<++.>>+++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++.++++++++++.<.>+.--.---.++++++.<<.<.>----.>.<------.>+++++++.<<----.>+.++.>>.<<+++.>------. [850]
04:35:46 <Razor-X> I'll save it from the rest of the languages I know :D.
04:36:10 <pikhq> ihope: It's a bit better if you represent the other opcodes in 3 bits.
04:36:51 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen Cxu vi parolas Esperanton?
04:37:12 <EgoBot> 243 +++++++++++++++[>++>++++++++>+++++++>++++<<<<-]>>>>+++++++.<<.---.<++.>+.>.<<.>>+++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.---.---.>.<<---.<.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.>>+++++++++++++++.<-------.<-.>----.>--.<<++.-----.-.<------. [717]
04:37:23 <Razor-X> It's Esperanto generation is HORRIBLE!
04:37:53 <pikhq> It's English generation also sucks.
04:38:05 <ihope> !bf_textgen Dewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
04:38:09 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen You see? WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeEeE!
04:38:16 <ihope> !bf_txtgen Dewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
04:38:44 <AndrewNP> What did I tell you boys about harassing the sickly bot? </mom>
04:39:37 <ihope> "GregorR" does not stand for "George Roger Richards". It stands for "Gregor Richards".
04:39:52 <EgoBot> 337 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>++++.<----.>>--.<--.>----.+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++.>++++++++++++.>++++.<<-----.>>----------.<--.<.>>.<-------------------.<++.>----------.<<-----.>--.>------.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>.++++++++++.<.>>-----------------------.<--.<++++++++++++.<++.>>>-. [459]
04:40:06 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>++++.<----.>>--.<--.>----.+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++.>++++++++++++.>++++.<<-----.>>----------.<--.<.>>.<-------------------.<++.>----------.<<-----.>--.>------.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>.++++++++++.<.>>-----------------------.<--.<++++++++++++.<++.>>>-.
04:40:11 <AndrewNP> Razor: Okay, man, you're starting to sound desperate and pathetic.
04:40:12 <EgoBot> 328 +++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>+.>+.++++++.>-.<--.--------------..--------------------------------------.>.<<--.---------------.---....>++++++...........>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++..>+++.<.>..<.>.<<<.>.>..<...>.<......>>.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.>.<.<------------------------------------. [904]
04:40:36 <Razor-X> We're like... a community of 10.
04:40:38 <EgoBot> 276 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>+++++++++>+++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>>+++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++..<++..>>++..<..<...>>..<<..<++....>.>.<.....<..>...<.>.>..<.>.>...<.......<<..>..>.>..<.>.<<.......>..>..<...<.....>...<..>.<.<..>.....<.>.<...>>..<<.>>...>..<. [960]
04:40:40 <pikhq> AndrewNP: s/man/woman/
04:40:51 <Razor-X> I take no offense, so whatever pikhq.
04:40:56 <pikhq> !bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>+++++++++>+++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>>>+++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++..<++..>>++..<..<...>>..<<..<++....>.>.<.....<..>...<.>.>..<.>.>...<.......<<..>..>.>..<.>.<<.......>..>..<...<.....>...<..>.<.<..>.....<.>.<...>>..<<.>>...>..<.
04:40:58 <EgoBot> Dewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
04:41:01 <Razor-X> If 8 people are too lazy to join, we get only two entrants >_>.
04:41:07 <pikhq> !bf +++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>+.>+.++++++.>-.<--.--------------..--------------------------------------.>.<<--.---------------.---....>+++++
04:41:10 <pikhq> +...........>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++..>+++.<.>..<.>.<<<.>.>..<...>.<......>>.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.>.<.<------------------------------------.
04:41:24 <AndrewNP> Well, I'm still a bit nervous about entering, whereas I have no real experience with the given languages.
04:41:32 <AndrewNP> Maybe I could be on the judgment committee?
04:42:05 <Razor-X> Both positions are still wide open.
04:42:14 <ihope> Unlambda is easy. Just write Haskell, turn it into combinators, replace "fix" with some esoteric thingy, perform abstraction elimination, and string it all together!
04:42:23 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen josiahw@josiahw.homelinux.net
04:42:29 <Razor-X> You stole my idea, ihope >_.
04:42:48 <EgoBot> 215 +++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>++.+++++.++++.>+.>++++++.<-.<++++.<-.>>++.+++++.++++.----------.>.<-.<.<------------------.>>.+++++++.<----------.>>++++.<<-.---.+++++.>++++++.+++.<<.>.>>.<----. [469]
04:42:59 <pikhq> !bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>++.+++++.++++.>+.>++++++.<-.<++++.<-.>>++.+++++.++++.----------.>.<-.<.<------------------.>>.+++++++.<----------.>>++++.<<-.---.+++++.>++++++.+++.<<.>.>>.<----.
04:43:02 <EgoBot> josiahw@josiahw.homelinux.net
04:44:03 <ihope> Oh, and you'll have to mostly avoid typeclasses.
04:44:18 <Razor-X> Not hard to do if you keep the program (relatively) simple.
04:44:20 <ihope> And you'll have to avoid existential types involving typeclasses even more.
04:44:33 <ihope> And it'll all be really slow.
04:47:39 <pikhq> Razor-X: Check the page now.
04:47:52 <pikhq> (I think it's self-explanatory which language I want to code in)
04:49:33 <Razor-X> Check your entry, I made it more consistent.
04:50:26 <Razor-X> You mind if I add it to the topic?
04:51:24 <Razor-X> And remember. I'm desperate, and I really want this to be fun for the entire community. So no matter how much I hate them, put this contest on community sites like Slashdot and even *shudder* MySpace!
04:51:42 <Razor-X> (Assuming MySpace has anyone of intellect to code, but whatever.)
04:51:43 <pikhq> Slashodt, at least, has a few people who know how to code.
04:51:55 <Razor-X> (And why in the name of h*** one of you are on MySpace, but that's another story.)
04:52:10 <AndrewNP> Razor: Hey, you never know. This thing could really appeal to the pedophile demographic.
04:52:30 <Razor-X> Oh, I better add one thing.
04:53:19 <Razor-X> Committee members *must* have coding experience.
04:53:56 <pikhq> That *should* be self-explanatory.
04:53:58 <Razor-X> I just realized what a mess would happen if MySpace pedophiles became committee members.
04:54:18 <AndrewNP> Like... coding experience with those languages, or any at all?
04:54:51 <Razor-X> Any at all, those languages preferrably.
04:55:02 <Razor-X> Seriously, how hard is it to code in BF?
04:55:38 <pikhq> It's merely a bit irritating.
04:55:45 <pikhq> At least, compared to Malbolge.
04:56:01 <Razor-X> I think *anything* is a bit irritating compared to Malbolge.
04:56:51 <Razor-X> I tried to get articles on Slashdot twice, but it never worked.
04:57:09 <Razor-X> Of course, I realized that I was insulting the very holiness of Slashdot with those two articles: Google and Firefox.
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05:12:39 <GregorR> My thoughts are usually more along the lines of "crappiness of Slashdot", but yeah, whatever.
05:12:49 * pikhq reads Slashdot a bit. . .
05:13:02 <pikhq> Mostly crap, with the occasional interesting crap.
05:14:32 <Razor-X> I rarely, if ever, read it.
05:14:39 <Razor-X> For the occasional National Enquirer effect.
05:15:33 <AndrewNP> Whoa! Hydrogen Fuel Cell RC car! Bitchin'!
05:18:45 <AndrewNP> And what's this? Snakes hand-in-hand with human evolution? Somewhere in Heaven, the writer of Genesis is neener-neenering.
05:19:05 <pikhq> You see? Mostly crap.
05:19:38 <AndrewNP> Screw you: I want my Fuel Cell RC car. At the very least it'd make a portable Hindenburg bomb.
05:19:51 <pikhq> GregorR: I've got an idea. . .
05:20:01 <pikhq> Adding a new class to Ork.
05:20:17 <pikhq> A mailman, for network access. ;)
05:21:25 <AndrewNP> There is a mailman named Cliff. Cliff's address is 123.45.29.200. Cliff is to connect.
05:21:38 <AndrewNP> Cliff is to go to Cheers. Cliff is to get drunk with Norm.
05:21:40 <pikhq> And, since your license is BSD, in essence, I'm legally free to.
05:21:44 <pikhq> Yay free software!
05:23:12 <GregorR> However, if you didn't release that back, I'd have to kill you *shrugs*
05:23:43 <pikhq> Of course I'd give you the patch.
05:25:22 <AndrewNP> Cliff is to go postal on source hogs.
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05:26:14 <pikhq> Sweet. Only need to work on libork for it, it looks like. :)
05:26:31 <GregorR> Just be careful about how it translates names is all *shrugs*
05:27:07 <AndrewNP> There is a programmer named pikhq. pikhq's contribution is mailman. pikhq is to get cracking.
05:27:11 <GregorR> And I remember why function names can't have spaces - there's actually an ambiguity which makes it impossible :(
05:27:28 <GregorR> I am to <function> <object>'s <variable>
05:27:38 <GregorR> Couldn't distinguish <function> from <object>
05:27:39 <AndrewNP> I functioned your MOM's variable!
05:28:04 <pikhq> I'll work on it sometime later; not quite awake enough to work on it right now.
05:28:09 <AndrewNP> Yeah... I don't know what that means.
05:28:20 <GregorR> That's what your mom said.
05:28:39 <pikhq> There is such a thing as your_MOM.
05:28:54 <GregorR> After I told here about your floccinaucihilipilification for thinking.
05:30:11 <pikhq> I'll work on writing up the specs on what the mailman class will do tonight, and code it either tomorrow or Wednesday.
05:31:02 <AndrewNP> You missed the second "n." "floccinauci-NI-hili-whatever." Otherwise, bite me. ;-P
05:37:29 <pikhq> Can you have spaces in what a class says?
05:40:44 <GregorR> AFAIK functions are the only thing that can't have spaces.
05:40:47 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/99247 A specification of my mailman class so far.
05:40:53 <GregorR> Objects, classes, class variables, everything else can.'
05:41:23 <GregorR> Well, there's no port there.
05:41:37 <pikhq> Oh, I know something else. . .
05:41:47 <pikhq> Let's have two classes:
05:41:56 <pikhq> A UDP mailman and a TCP mailman.
05:42:13 <GregorR> UDP = mailman, TCP = phone
05:42:18 <pikhq> A mailman has a port which is a number.
05:43:43 <pikhq> A phone has a phone number which is a phrase.
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06:04:31 <pikhq> I got him on the ORK bug, didn't I?
06:09:28 <fizzie> I wonder if I finished my ORK crc-computing-code ever.
06:10:34 <fizzie> "If Frege's helper says it's equal then Laplace's second operand is 1."
06:34:41 <Razor-X> That's what your code makes me want to do :D.
06:47:46 <GregorR> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/IRP
06:48:03 <Razor-X> ESTAS LA FINO DE LA TERA!!!
07:22:34 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>+++++[>+++++++[>+++<-]<-]<-]>+++++[>++[>++<-]<-].-.
07:23:01 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>+++++[>+++++++[>+++<-]<-]<-]>+++++[>++[>++<-]<-]>>.-.
07:23:25 <Razor-X> Thank you for failing, EgoBot.
07:24:06 <Razor-X> !bf +++++[>++[>+++++++[>+++<-]<-]<-]>+++++[>++[>++<-]<-]>>.-.
07:25:43 <Razor-X> Hmmm. I'd think this is correct....
07:52:25 <lament> http://gallery.z3.ca/d/11554-1/awesome.jpg
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09:29:12 -!- Keymaker has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck - competition: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest.
09:29:22 <Keymaker> added link to the esolang competition
09:31:25 <Arrogant> Jay: Kids, if Silent Bob could talk, he'd remind you that when you're camping, it's always smart to tie your food up in a tree at night so as not to attract bears.
09:33:06 <Keymaker> i'm wondering what kinda task(s) there'll be in brainfuck. and i'm hoping it's the standardish unsigned 8-bit non-wrapping environment
09:37:07 <Arrogant> I was hoping for a contest for making a language :(
09:37:43 <Keymaker> yes, me too a bit, but we can run one later
09:38:46 <Keymaker> i definitely want to see such one at some point of time -- perhaps even run it myself if nobody else volunteers
09:40:30 <Keymaker> strange thing in this competition is that entries need to have comment and "But do not make the program so small as to obfuscate it. You will lose points for that." :\
09:42:17 <Keymaker> probably some insanely difficult task compensates that :)
09:45:35 <Arrogant> I am not very good at writing programs in esoteric languages ;)
10:03:43 <Arrogant> I wrote my first lisp program.
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13:33:30 <Keymaker> luckily updating this program is really easy, and i didn't waste much time writing my program that i now have to write (yet) again. i really love my new esolang and i'm not being sarcastic at all.
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14:24:22 <ihope> Pah, all (both) the other Esolang Contest participants are doing the stuff in BF.
14:35:46 <Keymaker> well, i can't do unlambda or malbolge, probably could do intercal but i'm not that interested in it.. however, i guess i could participate with befunge too, but i haven't used it that much, so i chose brainfuck (which is my favourite, anyways)
14:41:53 <pikhq> ihope: That's only because I don't know the others.
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15:33:53 <ihope> Oh, I oughta write a thing that converts Church numerals into decimal.
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15:46:11 <pikhq> You know, adding networking support to Ork would be much simpler if I knew how to do networking in C++. x_x
15:47:22 <ihope> Pass the server and the port into some function, and it gives you a file handle that you can read from and write to?
15:47:34 <ihope> (That was an imperative question, see.)
15:48:02 <pikhq> Trying to find the appropriate function (t3h interwebs doesn't enlighten)
15:49:56 <pikhq> But Wikipedia does.
15:50:37 <ihope> You could try this: http://www.cpp-home.com/tutorial.php?26_1
15:51:27 <ihope> Just ignore all the PHP-or-something stuff at the top.
16:03:29 <pikhq> Might also help to write the class into the header. x_x
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16:13:45 <GregorR-W> What, nobody wants to be in the committee?
16:14:26 <GregorR-W> I suck at writing esoteric software (I'm better at writing esoteric languages :P), so I put myself in the committee :P
16:14:45 <pikhq> I'm trying to get my head around the whole "BSD sockets" thing right now. (maybe I should have done that before I started on this). . .
16:15:19 <GregorR-W> Suddenly your two lines are, well, more than two :P
16:15:55 <GregorR-W> And now you understand why EgoBot uses netcat ^^
16:15:59 <pikhq> Ever mentioned that I think C++ is the language of the devil?
16:16:18 <GregorR-W> But at least it's not a pansy language.
16:16:44 <ihope_> One that you can write pansies in.
16:16:58 <pikhq> One that's taught to business majors.
16:17:17 <GregorR-W> It's C++ minus actually seeing any of the architecture.
16:17:26 <Keymaker> i guess pansy means something else than that flower, too.
16:17:39 <GregorR-W> pikhq: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/directnet/directnet/protov2_Branch/src/client.cc and https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/directnet/directnet/protov2_Branch/src/server.cc should help you
16:17:43 <ihope_> Haskell = (|really stupid> + |really great>)/sqrt 2
16:17:53 <pikhq> Funny. I thought it was C++ minus seeing any of the system plus pure insanity.
16:18:06 <GregorR-W> pikhq: Well, I was just giving the brief overview :P
16:18:27 <ihope_> I've never seen any C++ networking stuff, but in Haskell it's just a matter of some thingy. Lemme see here...
16:18:47 <GregorR-W> Networking in C++ is actually quite nice once you get over the hump of making a connection ^^
16:18:52 <ihope_> Network.connectTo :: HostName -> PortID -> IO Handle
16:19:36 <ihope_> In C, that's probably something like Handle connectTo(HostName, PortID).
16:20:00 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_sockets That's what C uses.
16:20:16 <pikhq> Unless you're in Windows, in which case you need to code for Winsock.
16:20:23 <GregorR-W> Which is just a bad version of BSD sockets.
16:20:34 <GregorR-W> And I'm missing about eight steps there :P
16:21:01 <pikhq> You have to make a lot of structs for it.
16:21:28 <GregorR-W> Anyway, like I said, once you've actually established a connection, sockets in C[++] are nice - before that, ow :P
16:21:38 <fizzie> Ack-pthtp, "gethostbyname" which is address-family-specific; getaddrinfo is far superior.
16:22:13 <pikhq> I'm going to need a few aspirin before this is over.
16:22:30 <GregorR-W> Hm, getaddrinfo can resolve IPv6 O_O
16:22:46 <fizzie> There wouldn't be much point if it didn't.
16:22:48 <pikhq> When I'm done, networking in Ork is going to be rather nice.
16:23:13 <pikhq> Of course, it'll still be Ork, so. . .
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16:52:27 <nooga> my cute eyes see somethin' new
16:52:43 <pikhq> There is such a thing as a mailman.
16:52:51 <nooga> i think it's named 2k+6 esolang contest
16:54:05 * pikhq wants to see someone do some Malbolge. . .
16:55:23 <Keymaker> me too, but it seems unlikely :(
16:55:53 <GregorR-W> The phrase I'm looking for is "fat f***ing chance"
17:06:34 <ihope_> Don't post your language specs at Wikipedia, guys :-)
17:07:19 <Keymaker> hmm, what's been posted at wiki?
17:08:14 <ihope_> lament: they'll get deleted, and they won't reappear until two months later :-)
17:08:28 <lament> why will they get deleted?
17:09:24 <lament> i thought you meant esowiki :)
17:09:31 <GregorR-W> That's like somebody writing a silly poem then posting it to Wikipedia, they delete it because it's irrelevent.
17:09:57 <Keymaker> however, they have pages for example some characters about some stupid cartoon that has a few readers, and such
17:10:21 <ihope_> Not as bad as "george washington ate PURPLE peas and washed them down with GREEN beer", but still deletable.
17:10:51 <GregorR-W> ihope_: ... what ... the ... f***?
17:11:39 <ihope_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:I_WILL_SUE_YOU_IN_A_COURT_OF_LAW_IN_TRENTON,_NEW_JERSEY_--_and_Other_Bad_Jokes_and_Deleted_Nonsense#From_George_Washington
17:15:46 <nooga> let x=0; 3x=5x => 3=5 ;D
17:19:29 <nooga> all nite hacking after me
17:19:32 <lament> i don't like that equation.
17:20:43 <ihope_> It's not an equation. It's a falsehood :-)
17:20:44 <nooga> lament: taken from the almighty Wikipedia
17:21:02 <lament> nooga: i don't like it
17:23:47 <nooga> my night hacking was really playing "half life 2 ep. one" and writing snake clone using SDL -.-'
17:49:03 <nooga> i think i'll go andwrite my awfull raytracer in C to have some code to obfuscate
18:16:31 <nooga> i wonder if there are some old VAX computers for sale nowadays
18:21:21 <Keymaker> no, i don't know about vax computers :p
18:21:28 <Keymaker> i was just saying i finally got my program working
18:21:57 <nooga> that's interesting
18:24:30 <GregorR-W> You don't deny it because you know I'm right!
18:25:05 <nooga> Keymaker: show us plz?
18:26:04 <Keymaker> as soon as i finish the specs (that i have been going to finish for a week)
18:26:44 <Keymaker> i even have a python implementation..
18:27:52 <GregorR-W> nooga: Before the sun engulfs the earth, we will know.
18:28:02 <ihope_> Just post the interpreter, eh?
18:28:24 <Keymaker> i want to post them all at the same time
18:28:29 <GregorR-W> SO THAT WE DON'T KILL YOU HOW 'BOUT
18:29:03 <Keymaker> now i'd need some quote, as usually..
18:31:50 <ihope_> Overgeneralization: everything follows the inverse-square law.
18:32:06 <Keymaker> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Drugs has helped me before :p
18:43:55 <ihope_> Hmm, I'll lose my internet connection in a bit.
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19:09:34 <nooga> why can't we use lazy k instead of unlambda? ;p
19:14:38 <GregorR-W> "Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics." -Leighann Lord
19:16:59 <Razor-X> If you want to use LazyK for the contest, just post it.
19:17:09 <Razor-X> If the LazyK users outnumber the Unlambda users, we'll use that instead.
19:17:25 <Razor-X> (For the contest, of course.)
19:17:34 <GregorR-W> Hm, it's a pretty even 1.5 to 1.5 :P
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19:18:37 <Razor-X> That goes for ihope too. If you want to use LazyK, just modify the post. I think it's popular enough.
19:18:58 <Keymaker> any idea when the competition will begin?
19:19:20 <Razor-X> Once we get a few committee members and maybe another 2 participants, I'll ask for convenient times.
19:19:42 <Razor-X> As a student, this is summer so it's convenient. But people with work/more-important-lives may disagree :P.
19:20:12 <Razor-X> GregorR-W: How many cells do you give EgoBot's BF interpreter?
19:20:24 <GregorR-W> It's EgoBF, it expands as-necessary.
19:20:37 <GregorR-W> (EgoBot's resource limitations cut it off at 100MB IIRC)
19:21:00 <Razor-X> We need expandable arrays in INTERCAL :(.
19:21:02 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
19:21:15 <Razor-X> Eats up memory fast, obviously ;).
19:21:18 <nooga> GregorR!! i just wanted to type that
19:21:28 <GregorR-W> It might have been 10MB, I don't remember *shrugs*
19:21:42 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
19:21:44 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
19:23:00 <GregorR-W> A guy who's afraid because he's either: A) shitting bricks or B) about to fall into a big pile of something sinister?
19:23:52 <ihope> A) would hurt a lot :-P
19:23:57 <nooga> !sadol !:o<-< 1234
19:24:46 <ihope> A guy wearing a barrette? That's... eh.
19:27:09 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
19:27:29 <Razor-X> If it wrapped around, 'twould be awesome.
19:28:22 <Keymaker> in my implementation that program would cause error
19:28:29 <GregorR-W> EgoBF knows nothing about EgoBot, it works under the impression that you just want to go on forever.
19:28:57 <Razor-X> Oh, you can't decrease zero?
19:29:13 <GregorR-W> Silly non-wrapping implementation.
19:29:19 <Razor-X> I should get to work on my BF machine, but I'm having so much INTERCAL fun :(.
19:29:20 <GregorR-W> Incidentally, that's a flag for EgoBF.
19:29:59 <Keymaker> well, there's two schools on this matter, and i happen to support non-wrapping
19:30:08 <lament> ihope: by the way, how are you supposed to create an OR gate, when it's clearly non-linear?
19:30:11 <Razor-X> Wrapping makes some fun code.
19:30:25 <GregorR-W> Also, my code to detect bitwidth doesn't work on non-wrapping :P
19:30:50 <ihope> That could probably be done with some Toffoli magic.
19:30:58 <lament> ihope: i mean, how do you make it reversible
19:31:01 <Keymaker> is there even a way to detect the bitwidth in non-wrapping?
19:31:08 <ihope> Add an input and an output.
19:32:03 <ihope> Well, here's an and-gate-like thing.
19:32:22 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: DOOD! I wrote some translations so you can set BF's bitwidth at runtime!
19:32:42 <ihope> Well, construct a Toffoli gate first.
19:32:44 <GregorR-W> In c2bf there's c2bf-1to* that converts them!
19:33:06 <lament> you construct a toffoli gate!
19:33:16 <nooga> what's finally with that c2bf?
19:33:26 <lament> ihope: i still think it could probably be better to have an esolang that uses not qubits, but objects with more states (say, 10)
19:33:32 <nooga> it would be the most twisted compiler ever made ;p
19:33:50 <ihope> EgoBot, a Toffoli gate is something that does this: |000> -> |000>; |001> -> |001>; |010> -> |010>; |011> -> |011>; |100> -> |100>; |101> -> |101>; |110> -> |111>; |111> -> |110>
19:34:05 <ihope> lament: quintegers?
19:34:18 <lament> ihope: the only problem is, you would need much more gates
19:34:23 <lament> ihope: (or a parametrized gate)
19:34:46 <lament> ihope: also your memory would realistically be limited by 5-6 quintegers
19:34:57 <lament> for an implementation on a real non-quantum computer
19:35:27 <lament> but the cool part is, you could have gates corresponding to actual arithmetic operations
19:35:53 <lament> ie you could have a subtraction mod 10 gate
19:36:21 <ihope> Who needs mod 10? :-)
19:36:47 <lament> |00> -> |00>; |34> -> |37>; |25> -> |27>; etc
19:37:26 <lament> well, 10 is a nice compromise between 2 (very hard to work with) and 256 (practically impossible, too much memory needed)
19:37:54 <ihope> Use functions instead of arrays?
19:38:11 <lament> ihope: i _still_ have no idea what the fuck you're talking about
19:38:55 <ihope> Instead of holding arrays and indexing them, hold functions and pass values to them.
19:39:22 <ihope> The same values as what you would use for indexes for arrays.
19:39:29 <lament> i don't understand you at all!
19:39:29 <ihope> function(x) instead of array[x].
19:39:54 <lament> so how would the function know what value to return?
19:40:14 <lament> and i thought you said "functions", i only have one array
19:40:21 <ihope> Okay then, a function.
19:40:35 <lament> well, how would it know what value to return for what index? Other than keeping them all in an array?
19:40:45 <ihope> The function would know what to return based on how it was constructed, just like an array.
19:41:27 <lament> and how would it be constructed?
19:41:54 <lament> i'm really not sure you understand yourself what you mean...
19:42:36 <ihope> Well, you can define array operations that work on functions instead of arrays.
19:43:13 <lament> ihope: i only have one array
19:43:14 <nooga> i wonder how does it feel to write a neural network in SADOL
19:43:30 <ihope> Then they'd work on a function instead of an array.
19:43:41 <lament> ihope: how do you "work on a function"?
19:43:46 <lament> ihope: can you give an example?
19:44:15 <ihope> You're using Python, right?
19:44:38 <lament> give a conceptual example at least
19:44:58 <ihope> Something like that.
19:44:58 <lament> i'm more confused about how this relates to QM stuff than how it relates to Python
19:45:09 <lament> i have no clue what you mean by that.
19:45:21 <ihope> Well, your array contains the probability amplitudes, right?
19:45:26 <lament> can you give an example in terms of actual qubits?
19:45:31 <lament> and operations on qubits?
19:45:52 <ihope> Okay... so you have this array that takes three bits.
19:46:14 <lament> and returns a probability amplitude?
19:46:46 <lament> i can even tell you what it is.
19:46:55 <lament> it returns 1 if all bits are 1, and 0 otherwise.
19:48:46 <ihope> Okay. Then to apply the Hadamard gate to the first qubit, you make a new function, which, when given x, y, and z, would consult the old function for x, y, and z and for not x, y, and z, then do some probability amplitude magic. :-)
19:49:29 <ihope> The probability amplitude magic is pretty much what you'd do to the array.
19:50:53 <lament> this new function, when called once, will have to call the old function two (or maybe four) times
19:51:15 <lament> each time you add a new operation, you exponentially increase the number of calls required when evaluating the whole thing
19:51:46 <lament> i think i'd much rather have exponential complexity with number of qubits than exponential with number of operations
19:51:53 <ihope> Yes, that's the problem :-P
19:52:07 * pgimeno wonders why on earth did the fun have to be at 5 am this morning
19:52:16 <lament> and when you evaluate the whole thing, there will be many, many identical function calls
19:52:28 <lament> which can be easily optimized by... making it an ARRAY :D
19:52:47 <lament> (or, i suppose, writing the whole thing in Haskell? But somehow i doubt that would really be an efficient solution)
19:53:10 <ihope> I dunno if Haskell would help.
19:53:14 <lament> also, i have no idea how to observe and destructively set qubits in that model
19:54:09 <ihope> Oh, you could ask the experts :-P
19:56:42 <pgimeno> !malbolge (=<`:9876Z4321UT.-Q+*)M'&%$H"!~}|Bzy?=|{z]KwZY44Eq0/{mlk**hKs_dG5[m_BA{?-Y;;Vb'rR5431M}/.zHGwEDCBA@98\6543W10/.R,+O<
19:57:15 <pgimeno> just copy-pasted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hello_world_programs#Malbolge
19:57:17 * lament can't begin to imagine the amount of complexity in that program
19:57:59 <pgimeno> constant output programs aren't that hard actually
20:00:53 <pikhq> !malbolge thissureashellisn'tvalidcode
20:00:56 <EgoBot> invalid character in source file
20:01:26 <pgimeno> that's the problem with the requisite for comments in malbolge
20:01:32 <pgimeno> malbolge doesn't accept comments
20:01:43 <ihope> Whitespace = comments.
20:02:10 <pikhq> In malbolge, I think anyone who *enters* wins by default. . .
20:02:16 <pgimeno> you could code comments in binary as tabs and spaces
20:02:42 <pgimeno> I'd enter but anything more complex than a cat program will be an enormous task
20:02:59 <ihope> Code your comments in Whitespace.
20:03:25 <ihope> It'd be very easy to write a Malbolge/Whitespace polyglot, except for the Malbolge part.
20:04:10 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
20:04:59 <Keymaker> malbolge and whitespace quine, don't you mean? ;)
20:05:51 <pgimeno> whenever I see a quine in Malbolge I will get dismayed
20:05:53 <ihope> pikhq: don't worry; Kenny never stays dead.
20:08:26 <pgimeno> !bf +++++[>++++++++++>+<<-]>..+.
20:08:43 <pgimeno> !bf +++++[>++++++++++>+<<-]>-.>.<+.
20:09:09 <pgimeno> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++>+<<-]>-.>.<+.
20:10:21 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
20:10:23 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
20:10:42 <pgimeno> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++>+<<-]>-.>+++.<+.
20:12:10 <pgimeno> how does EgoBot read its input?
20:12:24 <pgimeno> I mean, say the , command of BF
20:12:48 <pgimeno> how do I feed a getch() to EgoBot is the proper question
20:16:42 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:19:51 <ihope> I must be very lazy: I just tried to use my client's tab completion to complete the word "printer".
20:25:23 <pgimeno> hope that's not the original interpreter, it's full of bugs
20:25:33 * pgimeno takes a look at EgoBot's source
20:26:35 -!- nooga has joined.
20:27:38 <pgimeno> argh, it's the original interpreter
20:29:27 <nooga> i need to write something with cons and lambda and it should use many $ and : and ` characters
20:40:07 <nooga> it seems that hargfak (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hargfak) is unimplemented
20:40:17 <nooga> i could change it --;
20:56:16 <pgimeno> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++>+<<-]>-.>.<+.>.<+.
21:03:37 <pgimeno> the first line goes to the channel; the remaining ones come as PMs
21:04:05 <pgimeno> a non-genetic bf_txtgen should be straightforward
21:05:43 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
21:08:00 <pikhq> !i 1 I shall never quit!
21:08:13 <pikhq> It quit, didn't it? x_x
21:08:23 <pikhq> That would do it. :p
21:08:51 <pikhq> !i 1 /me is a very clever bot.\n
21:08:55 <EgoBot> /me is a very clever bot.
21:09:14 <pgimeno> it doesn't process IRC commands :)
21:09:20 <Keymaker> how do you say that something will be interpret? interpreted? aarg
21:09:24 <pgimeno> that requires CTCP processing
21:09:24 <pikhq> !i 1 Pikhq doesn't know the IRC protocol! Hahahahah!
21:09:35 <ihope> It's CTCP, not IRC.
21:09:41 <EgoBot> Pikhq doesn't know the IRC protocol! Hahahahah!
21:09:48 <ihope> !i 1 ^SOHACTIONI'm paul^SOH
21:09:55 <EgoBot> ^SOHACTIONI'm paul^SOH
21:09:57 <Razor-X> Wow. That's horribly slow.
21:10:21 <EgoBot> 65 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>><<<<-]>-----.++.>.<++++++.++++++.-. [19]
21:10:27 <Keymaker> i guess interpreted is correct
21:10:43 <pikhq> !i 1 Foo and bar\nand bar and foo.
21:10:55 <pgimeno> but I'm not a native English speaker eiter
21:10:57 <nooga> let's try to write a program in X language that will output program in Y language to trigger second bot and output a code in X languege to trigger the first ....
21:11:08 <Keymaker> pgimeno: yeah.. and it's non-capital m :p
21:11:15 <ihope> nooga: iterating quine?
21:11:24 <ihope> !bf +.+++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++<<-]>-----.++.>.<++++++.++++++.-.[,.]+.
21:11:35 <pikhq> !i 1 !i 1 I'm telling myself what to do.\n
21:11:37 <EgoBot> !i 1 I'm telling myself what to do.
21:11:39 <pgimeno> !i 1 ^SOHACTION test^SOH\n
21:11:48 <ihope> pikhq: doesn't work :-)
21:11:59 <Razor-X> !i 1 ^SOHACTION test^SOH\k
21:12:01 <pgimeno> !i 1 \001ACTION prueba\001\n
21:12:04 <EgoBot> ^SOHACTION test^SOHk001ACTION prueba001
21:12:12 <pikhq> !i 1 I can't pay attention to myself.\n
21:12:13 <EgoBot> I can't pay attention to myself.
21:12:25 <nooga> ihope: ping-pong between bots ;d
21:13:03 <ihope> Don't forget the 1.
21:13:10 <pgimeno> doh, it only processes \n, otherwise it strips the \
21:13:16 <pgimeno> (from looking at the source)
21:13:29 <pikhq> !i 1 I think we should patch that a bit.
21:13:37 <EgoBot> I think we should patch that a bit.Blahk
21:14:42 <nooga> !sadol :a5@:a-a1!"6howdy
21:14:45 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 17, row: 1, col: 18)
21:14:50 <nooga> !sadol (1:a5@:a-a1!"6howdy
21:14:51 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 19, row: 1, col: 20)
21:14:59 <nooga> !sadol (2:a5@:a-a1!"6howdy
21:15:01 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 19, row: 1, col: 20)
21:15:01 <pgimeno> pikhq: I have stopped it by sending EOF, wait a sec
21:15:15 <nooga> i cant code my own lang ;d
21:15:54 <pgimeno> !i 1 no \\\\ is allowed, that's bad\n
21:15:57 <EgoBot> no \\ is allowed, that's bad
21:16:11 <pikhq> !i 1 You were saying?\n
21:16:51 * pikhq forces them down your throat
21:18:29 <pgimeno> if you're around at 5 am there's little I can do :P
21:18:44 <pgimeno> except for going to bed at 7 am
21:18:52 <nooga> my laptop gets hotter and hotter
21:19:14 <pgimeno> anyway, nice to meet you again :)
21:19:16 <nooga> soon it may burn my hands
21:19:38 <pgimeno> GregorR-W: btw, are you interested in a security patch for the malbolge interpreter?
21:20:28 <GregorR-W> I assume you mean the one run by EgoBot?
21:21:41 <pgimeno> I've looked at the source and it looks like the original one by Olmstead
21:22:11 <pgimeno> so it has a few out-of-bounds read hazards and at least one out-of-bounds write hazard
21:22:22 <pgimeno> the fact that it hangs with an empty program is a symptom
21:22:44 <GregorR-W> Shoot, can't ssh home again, what'd I break X_X
21:22:47 <pgimeno> well, I did (in Python) :)
21:23:06 <GregorR-W> Tested with the rare few that are out there?
21:23:15 <pgimeno> yea, and a Malbolge debugger
21:24:09 <Keymaker> it'd be great if someone'd wrote some new malbolge stuff for this competition
21:24:34 <Keymaker> how about a program that prints out randomly 0 and 1? (or is random possible?)
21:24:36 <pgimeno> quite unnatural for Malbolge philosophy but blah
21:25:33 <pgimeno> GregorR-W: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/malbolge.patch
21:25:54 <GregorR-W> Will try to remember to apply when I can get in.
21:26:33 <Keymaker> have you uploaded this malbolge interpreter?
21:27:10 <pgimeno> it's just barely ready for release
21:29:20 <pgimeno> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/malbolge.pytxt
21:29:45 <pgimeno> (the strange extension is because otherwise my server says "500 Internal server error")
21:31:33 <pgimeno> yuck, that's just the interpreter, not the debugger
21:31:57 <pgimeno> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/mbdtrace.pytxt
21:34:14 <Keymaker> this language is evil indeed.. i got scared for seeing the interpreter, can't even think of writing a program
21:35:09 <pgimeno> if you read my article in the wiki and Lou Scheffer's one you can get a primer on how to do things with it
21:35:39 <Keymaker> yeah, i've read those, at least your article (it was good, too)
21:36:02 <Keymaker> but that doesn't mean it's that easy.. :)
21:36:40 <pgimeno> writing a program requires planning the memory map etc.
21:51:31 <pgimeno> GregorR-W: /me thinks that disambiguation of ORK function names with spaces could be given by the symbol table; of course it's harder to process that way and it does not fully avoid the possibility of ambiguity but the language is already ambiguous anyway
21:51:53 <GregorR-W> Yeah, it could ... trying to decide whether it's important enough.
21:53:39 <pikhq> It's not; Just use underscores.
21:54:16 <pgimeno> I mean: if there's a function whose name is "break the legs of" and an object called "John Doe" with a variable "brother in law3"
21:54:52 <pgimeno> the 3 and the premature enter, that is
21:56:02 <pgimeno> well, it adds readability to non-programmers
21:56:39 <pikhq> pgimeno: That's a bug, not a feature.
21:57:38 <pgimeno> well, if such a function exists then the split should occur after "break the legs of"
21:57:46 <GregorR-W> pikhq: In ORK, readability to non-programmers is important.
21:57:52 <GregorR-W> Because ORK is ridiculous in that extreme.
21:58:11 <pgimeno> it's the feature I love the most of ORK :)
21:58:34 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Actually, to non-programmers, ORK looks even weirder then normal code. . .
21:58:55 <nooga> what is the longest program in ORK?
21:59:11 <pikhq> Tell me what it is, and I'll get back to you on that. :p
21:59:13 <ihope> Some time ago, I think I was playing with English as a programming language. I guess ORK is it, eh?
21:59:18 <GregorR-W> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ork/exa/orkfuck.ork
21:59:30 <pikhq> ihope: COBOL did it first.
21:59:34 <GregorR-W> ihope: Well, it's a limited subset of English :P
21:59:55 <pikhq> ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL. :p
22:00:47 <pikhq> COmmon Business Oriented Language.
22:01:04 <ihope> Don't overuse keywords.
22:01:08 <nooga> COBOL is an ancestor of C afaik
22:01:08 <pikhq> It's like ORK, except that it's actually meant for serious usage.
22:01:13 <ihope> COBOL seems to consist entirely of keywords.
22:02:07 <nooga> PERFORM WITH TEST AFTER UNTIL BMF-BookNum = PrevBookNum
22:02:31 <GregorR-W> It's less grammatically correct than ORK.
22:02:33 <nooga> btw. have u seen euphoria ;d?
22:02:50 <lament> nooga: no, cobol is not an ancestor of C.
22:03:02 <pikhq> "The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence." Edsger Dijkstra.
22:03:34 <pikhq> GregorR-W: I recommend calling ORK:
22:03:43 <pikhq> There is a language called COBOL.
22:03:54 <pikhq> There is a mathematician called Gregor.
22:04:03 <pikhq> Gregor's first operand is 1.
22:04:12 <pikhq> Gregor's second operand is COBOL.
22:05:01 <pikhq> COBOL is to become Gregor's result.
22:05:35 <Razor-X> <Darth Vader> NOOOOOOO </Darth Vader>.
22:05:41 <nooga> BCPL is an ancestor of C
22:05:58 <pikhq> Razor-X: Meh. Can't really do that; COBOL 2002 added object orientation to the language.
22:07:11 <nooga> the horror it will be when i'll finnish my 'uncommon lisp'
22:07:27 <Razor-X> Do we get our P-expression fun?
22:07:49 <pikhq> Or is it Lisp in Tcl-expressions?
22:09:10 <nooga> sh... i'm out of wine
22:09:42 <nooga> when i don't have vine?!
22:10:36 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
22:10:38 <Razor-X> So it has an ASCII code of 30.
22:11:09 -!- cmeme has joined.
22:11:17 <pikhq> I can do that too.
22:11:28 <Razor-X> But is that hopeless obfuscated?!?!
22:11:44 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
22:11:46 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
22:11:46 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/aeolbonn/99.aeo
22:12:01 <Keymaker> there's the 99 bottles of beer in aeolbonn
22:12:03 <Razor-X> But mine is short and sweet.
22:12:03 <pikhq> I'm lazy; what can I say?
22:12:06 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++[>++++++>+++++>><<<<-]>++++.>.----. [31]
22:12:20 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen +++++++++[>++++++>+++++>><<<<-]>++++.>.----.
22:12:50 <Keymaker> and the specs: http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/aeolbonn/aeolbonn.html
22:12:55 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen !bf_txtgen -[>+]
22:12:56 <EgoBot> 144 +++++++++++++[>+++>+++>+++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>++++....<++++.>....>>.<---.<<....>.<.>>.<.<..>..>..--....<<++.>>>++.<++.<<--....>+++.>.<.-.<++..>.+. [987]
22:13:12 <EgoBot> 152 ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++>++++++++>+++++<<<<-]>>---.>++.++++.-------.<<----.++++.----.-------------.--.+++++++++.>-.+++++++++++++.>----.>++.<<--.>++. [488]
22:13:12 <pikhq> Jebus. That's just insane.
22:13:35 <Razor-X> Mine is so much shorter, and yet so much longer in BF :D.
22:13:40 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++>++++++++>+++++<<<<-]>>---.>++.++++.-------.<<----.++++.----.-------------.--.+++++++++.>-.+++++++++++++.>----.>++.<<--.>++.
22:14:25 <pikhq> !bf +++++++++[>++++++>+++++<<-]>++++.>.----.
22:40:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
22:41:49 <Razor-X> At least, they look the same to me.
22:41:53 <Keymaker> seems egobot prints out value 30 in hex format preceeding a '%'
22:42:46 <nooga> Keymaker: looks awfull
22:43:02 <nooga> Keymaker: that aeolbonn
22:43:59 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++[>+++++>+++++>+++++>+++++>+++++<<<<<-]>[.>]
22:44:07 <Keymaker> the program was painful to write, as i sometimes forgot something and had to write almost all the jump values again
22:44:11 <nooga> have you seen my newest perl masterpiece?
22:44:24 <Razor-X> Write in INTERCAL! It's cleaner than Perl!
22:44:32 -!- bdtg has joined.
22:45:03 <nooga> it may be controversial for some.. uh.. nvm
22:45:36 <nooga> http://perlmonks.com/?node_id=551288
22:45:57 <nooga> officialy at perlmonks in 'obfuscations' category
22:46:31 <Keymaker> ok, aeolbonn is now at esowiki
22:47:33 <Razor-X> "'?":1~'#65535$30'"$":2~'#65535$#0'"'~'#0
22:48:19 <Razor-X> It should be obvious what it means.
22:50:44 <nooga> SADOL is more ergonomic than C if we talk about syntax ;d
22:51:33 <Razor-X> It's not hard to get more ergonomic than C.
22:52:38 <nooga> if(A[P]==B[R] && B[P]==A[R] && (Q || F))... ===> ?&=#AP#BR&=#BP#AR|QF
22:53:04 <nooga> faster to parse-in-mind
23:01:48 <Keymaker> gregorr, checked aeolbonn yet?
23:01:55 <Razor-X> It looks like some guy's eyes keep popping out.
23:03:00 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
23:03:53 <GregorR-W> Keymaker: What does the 'W' in my nick stand for?
23:08:30 <ihope> Say, why'd you choose the nick "lament"?
23:15:14 <lament> i can't think of a better nickname
23:15:17 <Razor-X> Because he laments ever creating an Esolang.
23:15:38 <lament> the only thing i don't like about it is idiots making puns about it
23:18:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:18:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:23:00 <GregorR-W> It's not a pun if it's the actual word ...
23:23:08 <GregorR-W> 'lament' is not a pun of 'lament' :P
23:23:20 <GregorR-W> And you think YOU can't create a clever nickname?!
23:23:39 -!- Razor-X has changed nick to Mary.
23:23:47 <Mary> Oh. Feel that stereotypical-NESS!
23:23:54 -!- nooga has changed nick to nicky.
23:23:56 <Mary> And it's owned by someone too.
23:24:13 -!- Mary has changed nick to Razor-X.
23:24:15 -!- nicky has changed nick to nooga.
23:24:20 <Razor-X> I forgot for a second that I was on other channels :D.
23:25:47 <Razor-X> No. This is my correct gender, bub.
23:26:37 <Razor-X> Finds out GregorR-W a few days late.
23:26:40 <GregorR-W> Wait, wait, wait ... female? On #esoteric ?
23:27:12 <Razor-X> There's a problem with that.
23:27:21 <Razor-X> Well..., there's many problems with that, but there's one major problem.
23:27:28 <nooga> that's rather unusual
23:27:39 <pikhq> Which is that Razor-X is a minor. :p
23:27:46 <Razor-X> No that's not the major problem :D.
23:27:54 <Razor-X> But that's one of the many problems.
23:27:56 <GregorR-W> Pffffffff, that's a minor problem *hahaha*
23:28:05 <Razor-X> I guess nooga has recovered from his shock.
23:28:45 <nooga> on other tech channels i am girls don't stay too long
23:28:51 <pikhq> The major problem being?
23:28:55 <nooga> after they admit they're girls
23:29:11 <nooga> because guys are goin' crazy
23:29:31 <GregorR-W> Hahaha - no more craziness from me.
23:29:50 <nooga> we're adult and calm :>... right...?
23:29:55 <pikhq> Tell them that you're a lesbian if you want to shut them up. :p
23:30:08 <lament> pikhq: that doesn't work
23:30:43 <pikhq> lament: Oh, right. Need to also tell them "An no, you can't watch".
23:31:08 <nooga> who knows SML anyway?
23:31:24 <GregorR-W> ORK networking ... how's that goin'? :P
23:31:46 * Razor-X makes a mental note to research qubits.
23:31:50 <lament> write me a qbf program :)
23:31:59 <nooga> i can write sadol one
23:32:01 <lament> you can do it as part of your work duties, i'm sure
23:32:19 <Razor-X> Make more disembodied smilies in Glass.
23:32:29 <pikhq> Razor-X: You still haven't said what the major problem is.
23:32:37 <GregorR-W> Work = $$$, $$$ = happiness, so work = happiness (except while at work)
23:32:38 <nooga> GregorR: contine c2bf please, or i'll be forced to do that (lmao... what r u talking about)
23:32:41 <lament> Razor-X: qubits are actually very simple, it's just that most documentation on them presumes you know QM and some linear algebra
23:32:52 <GregorR-W> nooga: Please, continue C2BF for me, that'd rawk.
23:32:53 <lament> which is not really necessary for playing with them
23:32:55 <Razor-X> I know *some* QM, and I know linear algebra.
23:33:15 <Razor-X> pikhq: That's because it's so major I can't talk about it!
23:33:18 <pikhq> GregorR-W: I'll do it when I get back home in a few days; kibnd of hard to develop over this very, very slow SSH link.
23:33:20 <lament> if you know *some* QM, then you already know qubits
23:33:40 <Razor-X> Alright then, I know a *little* QM.
23:33:53 <nooga> GregorR-W: i'm fat too good to touch such lame projects ;d
23:34:12 <GregorR-W> And yet you insist that I improve it.
23:34:52 <lament> practically the first thing covered in my QM class was the spin of an electron
23:34:53 <GregorR-W> After I get it basically compiling C, libc should be fairly trivial. newlib = free libc (and it's easy to compile only the non-processor-or-OS-specific parts)
23:34:56 <pikhq> I say we just figure out a way to get GCC to target Brainfuck. :p
23:34:57 <lament> which qualifies as a qubit
23:35:15 <GregorR-W> pikhq: Wouldn't work well or at all, GCC isn't happy without registers.
23:35:24 <lament> i forget how many states it can be in
23:35:32 <pikhq> GregorR-W: So GCC can't target PicoCPU, etiher. :/
23:35:46 <lament> well, that's a qubit right there
23:35:51 <GregorR-W> pikhq: Not easily. C2BF is pseudo-retargetable :P
23:35:57 <Razor-X> But isn't that like... a normal bit?
23:36:06 <pikhq> (PicoCPU is a highly insane registerless design)
23:36:09 <lament> Razor-X: no, because you don't know which spin it has
23:36:22 <GregorR-W> qubits, if observed, are only in one state or the other.
23:36:25 <Razor-X> Well, more like ``Not physically possible register-less design''.
23:36:25 <lament> Razor-X: it can have both spins at once, until you measure it
23:36:29 <nooga> once i've tried to port GCC to NosenseVM
23:36:36 <pikhq> By "insane", I mean "I got Razor-X to say 'bu that's impossible!'."
23:36:39 <GregorR-W> However, when not observed, they only have a chance of being in each state.
23:37:02 <lament> Razor-X: great, now write me a qbf program
23:37:17 <pikhq> Razor-X: It's only the bank-switching portion that's not possible. One could just ignore the bank-switching section of the spec.
23:37:35 <nooga> http://regedit.gamedev.pl/nosense/ << that's a nice machine
23:37:54 <nooga> but it lacks some registers that gcc would like to have
23:38:06 <nooga> and there are geenrally problems
23:38:30 <Razor-X> Is it really not possible?
23:38:39 <GregorR-W> Oh, the other problem with GCC targetting BF is that the BF functions aren't in memory.
23:38:54 <Razor-X> Is it like PicoCPU and its banks?
23:39:03 <Razor-X> ....Which have no physical origin?
23:39:16 <Razor-X> Wait! I know how it can exist!
23:39:20 <pikhq> Razor-X: I'm going to redesign that pure iinsanity, BTW.
23:39:31 <Razor-X> That way, we can accept its existance on faith!
23:39:49 <Razor-X> Better yet... create a religion with a God that says PicoCPU can physically exist.
23:39:52 <nooga> ok, ill as God on ICQ
23:39:52 <pikhq> Finally caught on to me being Christain, did you? x_x
23:40:57 * GregorR-W writes down in his "list of reasons/methods of torturing people: pikhq == Christian"
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23:42:05 <Razor-X> Wait. I'm lesbian, does that count?
23:42:13 <pikhq> Is that a method or a reason? :p
23:42:53 <Razor-X> Isn't that torture enough?
23:43:10 <nooga> you can torture me by correcting my obvious mistakes ;p
23:43:15 <Keymaker> before i forget: quite interesting, finally some female person on this channel. one visited months ago, but if i remember correct she wasn't looking for esolangs
23:43:19 <lament> Razor-X: lesbians don't exist, sorry
23:43:28 <Keymaker> just happened to visit wrong channel or something
23:43:36 <GregorR-W> Keymaker: There've been two: one was kate` (IIRC), who was in the right place.
23:43:42 * pikhq would like to laugh a bit at the "God hates fags!" faction. . .
23:43:46 <GregorR-W> Keymaker: The other was confused, and was looking for psychics :)
23:44:01 <Razor-X> See. Geekish females exist.
23:44:16 <nooga> Razor-X: in USA i presume
23:44:24 <lament> of course nobody seen cpressey in a while :(
23:44:49 <Razor-X> I live in the place with repulsorlifts, AKA Silicon Valley.
23:44:52 <lament> I took a CS class with her.
23:44:56 <Razor-X> Robots clean our windows....
23:45:03 <pikhq> Bit ironic that they use a book which states "God loves all people" to justify God hating someone. . .
23:45:05 <Keymaker> you're kidding? pressey's female??
23:45:21 <Razor-X> And so have you missed the chance to hit on someone.
23:45:31 <lament> You think a male would come up with Befunge?
23:45:48 <Razor-X> The author of Befunge is female?! No wonder it's so awesome! :P.
23:46:08 <Keymaker> well, i still don't quite believe this is true, but i can be wrong :p
23:46:13 <lament> Razor-X: ehhhhhhhh isn't the author of COBOL female
23:46:34 <nooga> i'll go and brong myself next redbull[tm] from the leet fridge
23:47:20 <Razor-X> She's a... Pak Protector!!!
23:47:24 * pikhq notes that he goes to school with a geek girl as it is, and so doesn't need to hit on a lesbian geek girl that lives in another state
23:47:33 <lament> Maybe a female pak protector.
23:47:44 <nooga> i know them from one book
23:47:47 <Razor-X> That justifies her creating COBOL.
23:47:52 <lament> Pak protectors are human too.
23:48:02 <nooga> with such big ring
23:48:32 <nooga> Razor-X: from where did u get those Paks Protectors?
23:48:59 <lament> nooga: a shitty sci-fi writer invented them
23:49:33 <nooga> i've read that several years ago
23:49:34 <Razor-X> ``Pshhh. Turn Spinward to the Map of Kzin. Pshhh''.
23:50:42 <nooga> puppeteers were idiotic creatures
23:50:51 <Razor-X> I don't even know what a Puppeteer was.
23:50:55 <Razor-X> I read the second book, soo.....
23:51:09 <Razor-X> ``It's a Pierson's Puppeteer!!!'' WTF IS THAT?!
23:52:08 <Razor-X> Thanks for the explanation.
23:52:54 <ihope> "OPPOSE I absolutely hate titles with bad words in them! Nate 13:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)"
23:53:01 <ihope> What, "damn" is a bad word? :-P
23:53:33 <ihope> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BJAODN:The_Next_Page_Title
23:53:40 <nooga> i need a minimal scheme implementation
23:53:46 <nooga> to analyze the code
23:53:54 <ihope> "Damn it Jim! I'm a Bad Joke, not Other Deleted Nonsense!"
23:55:49 <Razor-X> I love that line. And it was in an SF short story.
00:05:50 <nooga> i've got minischeme
00:06:50 <nooga> 51kB of C code -.-'
00:12:34 <nooga> i'll go to sleep for 2-3h
00:13:11 <nooga> week long caffeine frenzied coding party wasn't good idea
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00:22:46 <Razor-X> You guessed wrong. The character is not called ``ym''.
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00:24:25 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++++<-]>.
00:24:36 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>+++++<-]>.
00:24:45 <GregorR-W> Here's a quiz for any UNIX or GNU/Linux users out there: What standard UNIX command will allow you to determine the time of the last power outage?
00:24:47 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++<-]>.
00:25:26 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++++++++[>+++++++++++<-]++++++++<-]>>.
00:25:29 <pikhq> GregorR-W: uptime. (I don't have an UPS)
00:25:59 <Razor-X> My uptime is pretty bad because, well, the last power outage was yesterday :P.
00:26:21 <pikhq> My uptime is pretty bad because, well, my computer is off.
00:26:42 <pikhq> Been logged into a friend's box.
00:27:08 <Razor-X> You're like... a UNIX-Eunuch!
00:27:22 <pikhq> My mom's very annoyed by me leaving the computer on when I'm away from it for long periods of time.
00:27:23 <GregorR-W> When I don't have my computer, I prefer to just call an ISP and establish a dialup connection with my voice.
00:27:49 <pikhq> Could be a bit annoying for anyone around you.
00:27:59 <Razor-X> I'm never away from my computer!
00:29:34 <pikhq> You sure you're not really ams?
00:32:15 <GregorR-W> Hm, I'm confident that a TwoDucks interpreter could be written ... it would have to run through several times to determine the final temporal state, then run it once with everything in that state. It of course couldn't solve the halting problem because it wouldn't get through to there, but it would be an accurate interpreter.
00:32:58 <GregorR-W> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/TwoDucks
00:33:12 <pikhq> ams is the guy in charge of the release of the entire GNU system.
00:33:23 <pikhq> He seems to never sleep.
00:33:36 <Razor-X> I sleep only 2-4 hours per day.
00:33:40 <Razor-X> I do, regrettably, sleep though.
00:33:52 <pikhq> He's doing well if he sleeps once every two days..
00:34:03 <Razor-X> I need more caffeine for that.
00:34:05 * pikhq sleeps between 8 and 10 hours per day.
00:34:16 <pikhq> I'm a caffeine fiend, as well.
00:34:16 <Razor-X> So... much... time wastage....
00:34:22 <Razor-X> And you sleep *that* much?!
00:34:31 <pikhq> It's just that once I'm asleep, I'm out *cold*.
00:35:06 <Razor-X> Hence a Ruby script that uses MPD to set my speaker volume to 100%, pick 5 songs from my music library and play them until I hit `q' or they finish playing, and then set the volume back down again.
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00:35:12 <pikhq> I could sleep during a bombing.
00:35:21 <Razor-X> Put on crontab at 7 AM in the morning, and it works in waking me up :P.
00:39:26 <lament> as opposed to 7 AM in the evening?
00:39:58 <Razor-X> Well, as opposed to my mom cursing me out from bed.
00:44:42 <GregorR-W> Wooh, I'm soooo a committee of one.
00:45:38 <pikhq> Just do 7:00. We all think on 24 hour time, right?
00:45:49 <Razor-X> So now it's a committee of two.
00:45:59 <Razor-X> Does someone want the honors of posting in alt.lang.intercal ?
00:50:19 * GregorR-W has little-to-no newsgroup access.
00:50:37 * pikhq does IRC, not Usenet
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00:52:06 <ihope_> No, 7 PM in the morning.
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04:58:51 <Razor-X> Mmmm. I think my useless project has definite potential of becoming what I wanted it to become.
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05:15:33 <AndrewNP> GregorR: were you the one who said that mIRC can't do Unicode?
05:18:56 <AndrewNP> Because it turns out that's not quite correct. This alleged P.O.S. can do Unicode. Though only as UTF-8, unfortunately. And there's only one font on my computer with full U+ support.
05:19:00 <GregorR> Yeah. That's at my last recollection, Idonno if they've improved.
05:20:10 <AndrewNP> Of course, I don't know any Japanese, so Razor's text may as well be a bunch of boxes and weird accented vowels.
05:21:24 <lindi-> AndrewNP: what unicode version does that font support?
05:25:53 <AndrewNP> Not version 4.0, apparently. It goes buggy on double-width diacritics. But hey, it's Microsoft, so if that's the *only* bug, I'm impressed. (Arial Unicode MS, BTW.)
05:26:06 * AndrewNP should probably DL some better Unicode fonts.
05:26:08 <lindi-> ok so not quite "full U+ support" then :)
05:26:50 <AndrewNP> Heh, okay. ;) What I mean is that it's the only font on my system with the CJK characters.
05:39:45 <AndrewNP> Turns out I prefer monospacing to Japanese characters. ^^
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06:07:12 <Razor-X> And another one of those highly annoying power outages.
06:25:34 <GregorR> Highly likely to fail test:
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06:25:55 <GregorR> (Haven't even gotten to the test yet ;)
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06:27:50 <Razor-X> GregorR: How do you disable the garbage collector of D?
06:28:00 <GregorR> Something like std.gc.disable
06:28:06 <GregorR> Or just don't use new, use malloc
06:28:45 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)(_c)*(_i)l.?(_s)a.?=(_c)*(_o)o.?\]}
06:28:50 <EgoBot> :GregorR!n=gregor@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps
06:28:58 <Razor-X> I still say that looks like a bunch of butchered smilies.
06:29:16 <GregorR> Woah, I broke something but bad ...
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06:30:44 <GregorR> I'm trying to make daemons persistent.
06:31:01 <GregorR> Instead I appear to have made a big mess :P
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06:31:26 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Test?"(_o)o.?]}
06:31:54 <GregorR> What's a good test program ...
06:32:35 <GregorR> !bf http://www.stacken.kth.se/~foo/rpn/brainfuck/rpn.bf
06:33:25 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
06:33:27 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
06:34:21 * GregorR has no idea how to use that RPN calc ...
06:36:22 <GregorR> (If it works this time >_> )
06:36:23 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)(_c)*(_i)l.?(_s)a.?=(_c)*(_o)o.?\]}
06:36:44 <GregorR> Erm, whoops, forgot to make it a daemon :)
06:37:02 <GregorR> !daemon repeater glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)(_c)*(_i)l.?(_s)a.?=(_c)*(_o)o.?\]}
06:37:59 * Razor-X has no idea what's going on.
06:38:03 <EgoBot> cannot write checkpoint image
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06:59:01 <GregorR> Aha, found the issue (maybe)
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06:59:43 <Razor-X> I love when that happens :P.
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07:00:15 <GregorR> !daemon repeater glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)(_c)*(_i)l.?(_s)a.?=(_c)*(_o)o.?\]}
07:00:38 <EgoBot> :GregorR!n=gregor@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!repeater Line 1
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07:01:12 <GregorR> More testing in #egobot -_-
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07:04:23 <GregorR> Trying to make daemons persistent in EgoBot.
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09:39:46 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
09:39:48 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
09:41:02 <EgoBot> 158 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>>>----.<----.>-.+.<++++.+++++.-------.<++.>++.---.<.>>.<++.+.>-.<<.>>.+.<.+++..<.<-.>>+++.+++.-------.>-. [419]
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17:37:28 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
17:37:30 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
17:45:50 <kipple> what are the numbers that are output together with the code from bf_txtgen?
17:47:21 <GregorR-W> Um, if I look at 'em I'll remember, one sec.
17:47:52 <EgoBot> 66 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>--.-------.+++++++++++++. [110]
17:47:54 <kipple> the first looks to be the number of instructions, but I don't know about the last
17:48:01 <fizzie> Perhaps number of executed instructions?
17:49:14 <GregorR-W> The last one is the number of iterations it took to get there.
17:49:29 <GregorR-W> !bf +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>--.-------.+++++++++++++.
17:50:36 <smokecfh> what kind of algorithm uses egobot?
17:51:07 <smokecfh> i've been trying to compress a 622 byte poem into as small a bf code as possible
17:51:30 <smokecfh> kipple: the same as textgen.java?
17:52:09 <smokecfh> i've tried that and it generates code of approx 7000 bytes in 2 hours (and then improves only one byte per hour or less)
17:52:41 <smokecfh> my current approach leads to <3000 bytes in a few seconds, but i'm interested in other (possibly better) algorithms as well :)
17:53:38 <GregorR-W> I didn't write it myself, I just used textgen.java - in fact, EgoBot has basically no inbuilt functionality :P
17:55:35 <pikhq> EgoBot doesn't even have networking built in. :p
17:56:12 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen Mmm. Baghira.
17:56:34 <GregorR-W> Hm, isn't Baghira that stupid theme to make everything look OS X-y?
17:56:50 <EgoBot> 142 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++>++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>++.>>>++++..<<+.--------------.<-----------.>>+++++++.>------.+.+.+++++++++.<.<++++++++++++++. [553]
17:57:25 <pikhq> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++>++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>++.>>>++++..<<+.--------------.<-----------.>>+++++++.>------.+.+.+++++++++.<.<++++++++++++++.
18:02:15 <pikhq> !bf_txtgen Sweet. . .
18:02:48 <EgoBot> 98 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>+++>++<<<<-]>>++++++++.<-.>++++++++++++++++++..<---.>>+.>++.<.>.<. [962]
18:15:15 <pgimeno> the RPN calculator needs a \r at the end of input in order to work (who on earth would ever consider CR as EOL?)
18:16:17 <ihope> Hey... how do you get EgoBot and netcat to talk to each other, instead of it only going one way?
18:17:33 <pgimeno> except DOSish and MACish people, that is
18:18:29 <GregorR-W> pgimeno: Macish people use \n now ;)
18:18:46 <smokecfh> hm, according to Lou Scheffer the '99 bottles of beer on the wall' example in malbolge does not use a loop but just prints -- http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml, can anyone verify that he is talking about the Hisashi Iizawa version?
18:19:17 <ihope> GregorR-W: netcat -e egobot, or what?
18:19:31 <pgimeno> smokecfh: nope, he talks about another version which prints an uuencoded gzip file
18:19:35 <ihope> smokecfh: oh, sheesh. Just run through it manually.
18:20:21 <pgimeno> smokecfh: read my comment on Iizawa's version
18:22:26 <pgimeno> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html
18:24:25 <pgimeno> Scheffer refers to Johannes E. Schindelin's version, http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-375.html
18:25:19 -!- merl has joined.
18:25:22 <smokecfh> ah! that clears things up a bit :) thank you
18:26:50 <pgimeno> as for the W in GregorR-W I always thought it meant Read-Write Gregor, while GregorR is a Read-only Gregor
18:26:57 -!- merl has quit (Client Quit).
18:27:22 <GregorR-W> pgimeno: How not-topical at all :P
18:27:46 <pgimeno> sorry, reading the backlog O:)
18:29:48 * ihope attempts to write to GregorR
18:30:03 <ihope> Apparently my client doesn't support it.
18:31:01 <GregorR-W> I didn't finish making daemons persistent :(
18:33:04 <ihope> !daemon persistent bf +[,[-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.]
18:33:11 <ihope> !persistent Hello, world!
18:33:37 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon persistent bf
18:34:01 <ihope> !daemon persistent bf +[,[-]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.]
18:34:06 <ihope> !persistent Hello, world!
18:35:04 <smokecfh> pgimeno: the paper is "fairly" readable if you use google translate
18:35:14 <smokecfh> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2F64.233.183.104%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3AvcsZz5FfPo8J%3Awww.sakabe.i.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp%2F%7Enishida%2FDB%2Fpdf%2Fiizawa05ss2005-22.pdf%2B%2522hisashi%2Biizawa%2522%26hl%3Dnl%26gl%3Dnl%26ct%3Dclnk%26cd%3D7%26client%3Dfirefox-a&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
18:35:26 <ihope> Ipe, use tinyurl :-P
18:35:32 <ihope> !persistent This encryption is just about unbreakable, even if you know exactly how it works. But you better pad the stuff first, eh?
18:35:34 <pgimeno> smokecfh: I'm working in a (slightly) more readable attempt but I'm not done
18:36:02 <GregorR-W> Y'know, encryption is implicitly lossless :P
18:36:13 <EgoBot> ..........................................................................................................................
18:37:25 <ihope> !daemon kill bf +[,[-]+]
18:37:44 <pgimeno> smokecfh: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/malbolge-jap-eng.html
18:38:02 <ihope> !daemon undaemon bf +[,[-]+]
18:38:08 <ihope> Not that I expect this to work.
18:38:18 <GregorR-W> Why do people always assume I'm an idiot.
18:38:32 <ihope> Because you *are* an idiot! :-P
18:39:24 <ihope> I have no idea, but maybe this will cheer you up: http://urlx.org/google.com/3c396
18:39:41 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
18:39:43 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
18:42:01 <ihope> lament: so are you going to add your QBF interpreter to the wiki page?
18:43:46 <kipple> Gregor: not all encryption is lossless (though I guess most modern ones are)
18:44:38 <kipple> of course, if you talking about encryption using computers you are probably right...
18:45:35 <pgimeno> QBF operates on adjacent cells but... does it make sense for a newer version to have two data pointers instead of one, so that the operations are performed over the data pointed to by both?
18:46:13 <ihope> Oh, yeah, that'd work.
18:46:50 <pgimeno> it kind of gives more freedom IMO
18:53:40 <lament> ihope: i'm waiting for somebody to write a qbf program
18:54:01 <lament> ihope: so i can verify it sort of works
18:54:17 <ihope> CNOT works, doesn't it?
18:55:05 <ihope> Just test observation next. If that works, assume everything does.
18:56:22 <lament> also the code is incredibly ugly (the qubit library itself)
18:56:54 <pikhq> GregorR-W: I don't assume you're an idiot.
18:57:15 <pikhq> GregorR-W: I just assume that you're freakin' insane.
19:05:27 <lament> how do i upload stuff to wiki?
19:06:02 <ihope> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Esolang:The_Esoteric_File_Archive
19:07:26 * ihope points in pgimeno's general direction
19:07:57 <pgimeno> lament: I can do it for you
19:13:15 <lament> http://z3.ca/~lament/qubit.py
19:13:18 <lament> http://z3.ca/~lament/qbf.py
19:13:58 <lament> (qubit is a quantum library, qbf the interpreter itself)
19:15:53 <pgimeno> ok, any other file? examples? :P
19:16:33 <lament> see, that's the problem
19:16:53 <lament> my test file is >%<%!!%.#
19:16:58 <lament> and that does not exactly do much.
19:17:45 <lament> the thing might contain really obvious bugs
19:21:04 <lament> ihope: now write a qbf program
19:21:10 <lament> you have the interpreter!
19:26:32 <ihope> Where's the interpeter?
19:28:03 * pikhq gives you a qbf quine:
19:28:24 <GregorR-W> NULL programs usu aren't considered as quines.
19:28:26 <ihope> Pah, it doesn't use any observation.
19:28:42 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Kidding.
19:29:14 <ihope> Oh, and EOF isn't a quine because it doesn't print EOF :-P
19:29:52 <pikhq> (at least in Homespring, a null program outputs something like "A null program is not a quine." ;)
19:31:46 <lament> my qbf implementation only outputs 1s and 0s
19:31:56 <lament> so writing a quine in it is... difficult
19:32:17 <ihope> "In HOMESPRING, the null program is not a quine.", I think.
19:32:54 <GregorR-W> If I knew how-t-f a hadamard transform worked, I may be able to pseudo-write something in QBF :P
19:33:36 <ihope> Oh, simple. It turns |0> into (|0> + |1>)/sqrt 2 and |1> into (|0> - |1>)/sqrt 2.
19:34:20 <lament> GregorR-W: it takes a qubit and sort of rotates it
19:35:27 <GregorR-W> I think I understand what (|0> + |1>)/sqrt 2 means, but (|0> - |1>)/sqrt 2 not so much ... how can you have a negative on the |1> ...
19:35:53 <ihope> The -1 is the probability amplitude.
19:36:19 <ihope> What's wrong with it being negative?
19:36:28 <ihope> It's a complex number, after all.
19:36:41 <ihope> (Yeah, it can be imaginary.)
19:37:05 <pikhq> I'm just going to say "Screw quantum mechanics".
19:37:09 <GregorR-W> And the probabilities of |0> and |1> have to add up to 1, right?
19:37:27 <ihope> The squares of their absolute values do.
19:38:08 * GregorR-W needs Quantum Mechanics for dummies :P
19:40:33 <lament> GregorR-W: probabilities add up to 1
19:40:46 <lament> GregorR-W: but not the amplitudes
19:40:53 <ihope> But not the probability amplitudes.
19:40:58 <lament> GregorR-W: which can be negative or imaginary or whatever
19:41:07 <lament> GregorR-W: it's the squares of their absolute values which add up to 1
19:41:32 <GregorR-W> So their probability amplitudes are a rather abstract view of the probabilities ...?
19:42:04 <lament> GregorR-W: yes, the idea is that the same probability can result from completely different quantum states
19:42:38 <lament> GregorR-W: which is why it's possible to get a qubit with equal probabilities of 1 and 0, apply hadamard and always get 1
19:42:41 <GregorR-W> Erm, sorry, their probability amplitudes are rather abstract for a view of probabilities, but that's because they're actually representations of something more complex (quantum state)?
19:42:50 <ihope> Yay, now I get to type those boring state thingies all over again.
19:42:50 <lament> GregorR-W: then take another qubit with equal probabilities of 1 and 0, apply hadamard and always get 0...
19:44:11 <GregorR-W> That first loop could hypothetically take an infinite amount of time ;)
19:44:20 <ihope> It almost always finishes.
19:44:45 <pikhq> You know, this is probably the first programming language for a quantum computer.
19:44:53 <ihope> Nope, there are others.
19:45:00 <lament> pikhq: a bunch of "real" quantum programming languages already exist.
19:45:05 <lament> "real" as in non-esoteric
19:45:07 <GregorR-W> I can't see any other way to get a 0 ... hadamard just makes it equal chance, so all you can do is hope you observe it as what you want (and therefore solidify it)
19:45:27 <ihope> GregorR-W: well, there's this weird whatever thingy...
19:45:31 <lament> GregorR-W: to set a bit to 0, you can use %!!%
19:45:39 <ihope> Well, that does a CNOT.
19:45:43 <ihope> But yeah, it works.
19:46:14 <ihope> Also note that %!!% is the same as %!%%!%, so %!% is half a CNOT.
19:46:27 <GregorR-W> I wish I knew what the controlled-V did, I don't know matrix format.
19:47:04 <ihope> |00> -> |00>; |01> -> |01>; |10> -> |10>; |11> -> i|11>
19:48:23 <lament> GregorR-W: it's on the wiki page
19:48:48 <lament> i still don't understand how, with just hadamard and CV, you can do arbitrary rotations
19:48:54 <lament> it seems quite impossible
19:49:07 <ihope> The first row corresponds to an input of |00>, the second is |01>, the third is |10>, and the fourth is |11>.
19:49:09 <lament> therefore making qbf non quantum-complete
19:49:19 <ihope> The columns are the same, but with outputs instead.
19:54:59 <GregorR-W> i|11> ... the probability amplitude for the possibility |11> is i?
20:04:36 <lament> GregorR-W: of course that means the probability is still 1
20:06:06 <ihope> Does "ye gots a something" sound cute or stupid? :-P
20:21:55 <Razor-X> No, it would be like Ye Momme.
20:22:20 <ihope> So how do I add cuteness and enthusiasm to "you have something"?
20:23:08 <Razor-X> `` *Giggle* You know... *runs finger over chest* ... you have something '' ?
20:26:25 <ihope> No, that's too scary.
20:27:33 <lament> You have something............IN YOUR PANTS!!!!!!!!!
20:28:23 <Razor-X> I don't want anything like that in my pants, thank you very much.
20:28:43 <GregorR-W> The year 1337 was the beginning of the hundred year war. On this year, the king of France was quoted saying "OMG 3NGL15H CAMPER FAGZ"
20:29:25 <ihope> Sudden reboot time.
20:31:06 <pgimeno> oh, so cal is broken for `cal 9 1752'...
20:32:08 <pgimeno> incidentally it's also broken for me for cal 2 1582
20:33:15 -!- ihope_ has joined.
20:33:58 <ihope_> Close a couple things, look in the task manager, and it was a near WTF to see the stuff down at 200MB :-)
20:34:34 <ihope_> ...And the other connection thing is still there?
20:35:02 * ihope_ calls up his ISP and asks them to reset all connections to any freenode.net server
20:35:18 <ihope_> (that originated from this IP address, that is)
20:42:42 <GregorR-W> Hm, wait, i|11> ... the probability is still 1? abs(i)^2 == -1, no?
20:42:58 <lament> GregorR-W: abs(i)^2 = 1
20:45:16 <Razor-X> Oh but.... no, it's not...
20:46:47 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:50:32 <GregorR-W> |1> % 1/sqrt(2) |1>, 1/sqrt(2) |0> ! i/sqrt(2) |1>, 1/sqrt(2) |0> ! -1/sqrt(2) |1>, 1/sqrt(2) |0> % |0>
20:50:51 <GregorR-W> Because of how hadamard is defined, the last state before % is the same as |0> after being %'d
20:53:17 <Razor-X> .... I'd understand a bit more maybe if I knew *why* you're using these numbers, but... alright....
20:54:23 <GregorR-W> % is defined to change 1|1> into 1/sqrt(2) |1>, 1/sqrt(2) |0> and 1|0> into -1/sqrt(2) |1>, 1/sqrt(2) |0> (and the inverses of those)
20:54:27 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:54:39 <Razor-X> ... Why do they change into 1/sqrt(2) ?
20:54:53 <GregorR-W> Um, because that's how hadamard is defined ^^
20:55:20 <Razor-X> It would help if I knew what a Hadamard is.
20:55:20 <GregorR-W> With both as 1/sqrt(2), the probability is equal. That is, if you were to observe it right then, there would be an equal chance of it being 0 or 1
20:59:42 -!- lindi- has joined.
21:12:26 <GregorR-W> I'm gonna stick to good ol' non-quantum computing X_X
21:14:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:21:26 <GregorR-W> YAY, www.donotputthebaby.com is back up 8-D
21:23:16 <GregorR-W> It was down because my host changed their ISP without telling me >_<
21:23:45 <Razor-X> What's the subject matter of the site?
21:24:47 <GregorR-W> "Subject matter" is a phrase ill-suited to a page which is completely pointless :P
21:37:23 <pgimeno> grr, the repository takes a while to update
21:38:34 <Razor-X> The contest is attracting more people.
21:38:44 <Razor-X> Especially after I posted on alt.lang.interlang.
21:40:01 <GregorR-W> People who read alt.lang.intercal ought to choose a new communicative medium :P
21:40:20 <Razor-X> Well, there's no #intercal here, so....
21:41:53 <Razor-X> Well, there's ##brainfuck after all.
21:43:27 <GregorR-W> That's more of a trap to get people to come to #esoteric than anything else :P
21:43:53 <Razor-X> It obviously worked in my case.
21:45:45 <pgimeno> hm, the 255 (32,10) in Brainfuck constants does not work for me
21:46:20 <GregorR-W> !bf8 +>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>
21:46:23 <GregorR-W> !bf8 +>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>.
21:56:40 <pgimeno> !bf8 >>>>>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>.
21:57:26 <pgimeno> it hits the beginning of the memory
22:00:04 <pgimeno> it just sets several memory positions with 3's
22:04:12 * GregorR-W wonders if he left -debug on the runline for !bf ...
22:04:16 <GregorR-W> !bf8 >>>>>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>#
22:05:58 <pgimeno> !bf8 >>>>>>>>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>#
22:06:12 <pgimeno> !bf8 >>>>>>>>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[[[-<++>]<<]>]>.
22:07:36 <Razor-X> What kind of operater is #?
22:07:54 <GregorR-W> It's used for debugging in many interps.
22:08:05 <GregorR-W> (To dump the content of the tape or something thereabout)
22:14:41 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
22:14:43 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
22:14:56 <lament> GregorR-W: add qbf to egobot!
22:15:09 <GregorR-W> lament: What does the W in my nick stand for?
22:16:19 <Razor-X> Or, maybe your name is Gregor Rolfe Wolfe.
22:16:43 <GregorR-W> Or something less ridiculous, like Gregor Richard Williams :P
22:17:29 * ihope_ pulls out his MD5 gadgetry
22:17:38 <GregorR-W> When I'm back at home, somebody remind me about QBF
22:17:57 <ihope_> Your hash for today: 2c46edab5c62176d6fb7b6893b1f6f0d
22:18:40 * GregorR-W wonders if there's an md5 quine :P
22:19:27 <ihope_> I don't know the chances.
22:20:01 <ihope_> Probably ((something-1)/something)^something, where something is the number of hashes.
22:20:32 <lament> actually it's more like 1/something +1/(something-1)+1/(something-2)...
22:21:06 <ihope_> Oh, wait... 1-((something-1)/something)^something.
22:21:55 <ihope_> Apparently, there are 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 possible MD5 hashes, ignoring things that could be hashes but aren't.
22:23:10 <ihope_> So the chance of there being an MD5 quine seems to be about 1-((340282366920938463463374607431768211455-1)/340282366920938463463374607431768211456)^340282366920938463463374607431768211456.
22:23:42 <pgimeno> !bf >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]>>]>.
22:24:10 <ihope_> 2^128 = 340282366920938463463374607431768211456.
22:24:33 <pgimeno> !bf >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]>>]>-.
22:24:53 <bsmntbombdood> 1-((340282366920938463463374607431768211455-1)/340282366920938463463374607431768211456)^340282366920938463463374607431768211456 == 340282366920938463463374607431768211457
22:25:35 <ihope_> Anyway, the chance seems to be pretty close to 0.
22:25:42 <pgimeno> !bf8 >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]>>]>-.
22:25:49 <pgimeno> !bf8 >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]>>]>--.
22:26:12 <pgimeno> !bf8 >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[<[-<++>]>>]>-.
22:26:42 <pgimeno> !bf8 >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]<<]>-.
22:29:26 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:32:39 <pgimeno> the initial > is because it needs a zero to the left
22:33:38 <ihope_> !bf8 +>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]<<]>-.
22:34:54 <pgimeno> oh, does that interpreter extend to the left as well?
22:35:26 <pgimeno> !bf +>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]<<]>-.
22:35:32 <pgimeno> !bf +>+>+>+>+>+>+>+[>[-<++>]<<]>.
22:36:05 <ihope_> !bf <+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<.>.>.<.<.
22:39:19 <ihope_> The chance seems to be close to 1-1/e.
22:39:36 <ihope_> My whatever thing must be malfunctioning.
22:40:28 <ihope_> Well... rounding error. It's rounding (2^128-1)/2^128 up to 1.
22:41:48 <ihope_> So the chance is 0.63212, give or take something.
22:43:23 -!- smokecfh has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:16:18 <ihope_> Your... other thing of the day: 'It stands for "work".'
23:17:46 <fizzie> That "something" is around 10^-40, unless I messed up: http://zem.fi/~fis/bleh.txt
23:44:28 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:53:52 -!- AndrewNP has joined.
23:54:34 <AndrewNP> (|greetings>+|salutations>)/sqrt(2)
23:58:12 <AndrewNP> What is this, Q-IRP? The quantum version of "Internet Relay Programming"?
23:58:39 <AndrewNP> Factor some RSA numbers, chop chop! ... Please.
23:59:41 <GregorR-W> Grf ... why isn't there a graphviz opposite-of-prune command >_<
00:00:37 <ihope_> And the number is 74037563479561712828046796097429573142593188889231289084936232638972765034028266276891996419625117843995894330502127585370118968098286733173273108930900552505116877063299072396380786710086096962537934650563796359.
00:00:54 <AndrewNP> Try 3. I've got a good feeling that it's some number times 3.
00:01:33 <ihope_> Nope, it's congruent to 1 mod 3.
00:02:14 <ihope_> Okay. Choose a random number from 1 to RSA-704.
00:02:14 <AndrewNP> So to break this one, you'd need a 704-qubit register, right? Pfft, good luck, hardware designers.
00:03:08 <AndrewNP> Uh... We already did 3. So... um... floor(pi * googol).
00:03:44 <AndrewNP> That's 101 digits, about the right size for one of the offending factors.
00:03:54 <AndrewNP> Probably not even prime, but since when is that MY problem?
00:04:17 <ihope_> Okay, the number is 31415926535897939206342872074089512377015178275785648855278065595809401623948916766946766405184258048.
00:05:00 <ihope_> No, we can still use it.
00:05:07 <ihope_> But this and that are coprime.
00:05:23 <AndrewNP> This and 3, or this and the RSA number?
00:05:31 <ihope_> This and the RSA number.
00:05:46 <ihope_> Now, f(x) = this^x mod that.
00:06:06 <ihope_> Do you know the period of that function?
00:07:27 <AndrewNP> Maybe... write a BF program. Or Glass. And wait 20 years or something.
00:07:53 <ihope_> What if somebody else does it first?
00:08:20 <ihope_> Okay, I need you to create a register that contains everything from 0 to the RSA number minus one, all with equal positive probability amplitudes.
00:08:23 <AndrewNP> Then we use a different algorithm: find the guys who did it, then beat the crap out of 'em and take credit for the accomplishment.
00:08:45 <AndrewNP> I'll split the cash 100-0 your way, since odds are you're the one who's gonna be in charge of the beating.
00:08:56 <AndrewNP> And I wouldn't know what to do with the money.
00:09:07 <ihope_> But nobody's done it yet, and the RSA guys will probably know it's them before we will.
00:09:37 <AndrewNP> Okay then, back to the original plan. Um... crap. I'm gonna need a lot more RAM.
00:11:15 <AndrewNP> The reciprocal. The probability. We can figure out the amplitude from that.
00:11:43 <ihope_> The reciprocal is 1/74037563479561712828046796097429573142593188889231289084936232638972765034028266276891996419625117843995894330502127585370118968098286733173273108930900552505116877063299072396380786710086096962537934650563796359.
00:12:08 <ihope_> Approximately 1.3506657337204956e-212, that is.
00:13:30 <AndrewNP> Uh... huh. Is it too late to kill this process and just do a simple "Hello World"?
00:13:39 <AndrewNP> 'Cause this could take a while.
00:14:26 <AndrewNP> The quantum factoring algorithm.
00:14:44 <AndrewNP> It's not working nearly as well as I had hoped.
00:15:43 <ihope_> Anyway, the probability amplitude you need is about 1.1621814547309278e-106. Initialize them to that.
00:16:56 <ihope_> You need to be an IRC operator to do that.
00:17:26 <AndrewNP> Then I'll have to try the old exception-handling way.
00:17:32 <AndrewNP> Please stop trying to factor RSA-704.
00:18:00 <AndrewNP> Interrupt the running, and all that. ^^
00:19:06 <ihope_> What if I don't want to stop?
00:19:35 <AndrewNP> Well, knock yourself out, but don't expect me to continue helping as a parallel processor.
00:19:58 <AndrewNP> But... the other chatters might complain. Or they would if they were still here.
00:20:08 * AndrewNP pokes the sleepy chatroom citizens.
00:24:13 * AndrewNP is slapped with a sexual harassment class-action suit.
00:25:32 <pikhq> And statutory rape.
00:26:04 <AndrewNP> But not that kind of poke... I think.
00:26:22 <pikhq> The courts don't care what kind of poke it was.
00:27:16 <AndrewNP> Honestly, ONE body-fluid-stained corpse and they're all like "Ooh, Murder in the First Degree!"
00:28:21 <AndrewNP> I mean, two or three, sure, I can understand. But doesn't everyone get a freebie? I think that's in the UN charter or something.
00:28:29 <GregorR-W> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Knife
00:28:45 <ihope_> How hard does one have to try to kill someone in order for it to be considered attempted murder?
00:28:54 <ihope_> It doesn't count if I just want someone to die, does it?
00:29:10 <AndrewNP> Eh, you probably have to DO something at least.
00:29:49 <ihope_> Doing something that could have been fatal, but wasn't?
00:29:49 <AndrewNP> Here's an esolang for ya: http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Code
00:30:00 <AndrewNP> Probably. Like, you really really REALLY expected 'em to die.
00:30:18 <AndrewNP> Shooting 'em and just missing the heart, for example.
00:34:08 <ihope_> Well, let's try to factor 4 using Shor's algorithm.
00:34:14 <ihope_> Just for practice and all that.
00:35:41 <ihope_> So a = 1. The GCD thingy is 1... well, yeah, 1 is a factor of 4.
00:36:11 <ihope_> Let's say a = 3, since that's *not* a factor of 4.
00:36:32 <GregorR-W> Speaking of just wanting somebody to die ...
00:39:05 <AndrewNP> GregorR: Uh-oh. I'm sorry! :'(
00:40:02 <AndrewNP> Okay, so now we take .5|00>+.5|01>+.5|10>+.5|11>
00:40:17 <AndrewNP> .5^2 = .25, so that should work as the amplitude.
00:40:29 <ihope_> No, .5|00> + .5|10> + .5|20> + .5|30>.
00:41:03 <GregorR-W> Speaking of just wanting somebody to die ... :P
00:41:16 <AndrewNP> GregorR: Yes, what? Who do ye want dead?
00:41:35 <AndrewNP> Okay, fine. First register = 0-3, Second = 0.
00:41:55 <AndrewNP> So then we take... 3^x mod 4, right?
00:42:29 <ihope_> So we turn that into (|01> + |13> + |21> + |32>)/2, I think.
00:43:08 <ihope_> ...No, (|01> + |13> + |21> + |33>)/2.
00:43:51 <AndrewNP> Now Fourier transform that bad boy!
00:44:03 <AndrewNP> Er, inverse. Inverse Fourier transform.
00:45:09 <ihope_> Oh, let's skip to the probability part.
00:45:28 <AndrewNP> You have to do the transform first, buddy.
00:45:50 <Razor-X> Is there some sort of Introduction to Quantum Computing?
00:46:11 <ihope_> Razor-X: well, you might wanna look at... something. Lemme see...
00:46:17 <AndrewNP> I think. Otherwise the numbers we're working with would be all wrong.
00:46:37 <AndrewNP> Razor: Actually, I promised a couple guys I'd write up a QC tutorial for 'em.
00:46:49 <AndrewNP> Razor: Do you want the physics behind it, or just the math and comp-sci part?
00:47:04 <ihope_> Well, you have to understand wavefunctions.
00:47:35 <Razor-X> AndrewNP: Well, depends on how involved the physics is.
00:47:43 <Razor-X> No, I don't have enough background for the wavefunctions.
00:47:54 <Razor-X> Unless a wave function is a sine curve :D.
00:48:10 <AndrewNP> I thought the whole point of the bra-ket thingie was to abstract out the wavefunction?
00:48:35 <ihope_> Now, instead of 0 and 1, we have |0> and |1>.
00:49:06 <ihope_> And we can use |0> and |1> as numbers, sort of.
00:49:27 <AndrewNP> And this time, instead of covering up a voltage, they stand for a whole crapload of physics.
00:49:56 <ihope_> We can add quantum states to each other, and we can multiply quantum states with numbers.
00:50:28 <ihope_> Essentially, you have to be able to turn it into something of the form a|0> + b|1>.
00:50:43 <ihope_> And |a|^2 + |b|^2 has to be 0.
00:51:08 <ihope_> So |0>*sqrt 2 + |1>*sqrt 2 is valid, but 2|0> isn't.
00:51:12 <lament> You mean, has to be 1.
00:51:48 <Razor-X> So you can have like... sqrt(2)|0>
00:51:55 <lament> Razor-X: so now that you understand everything, write me a qbf program.
00:52:25 <ihope_> Razor-X: well, no, because the square of the absolute value of the square root of 2 is 2.
00:52:42 <Razor-X> Mmmm. Can someone make a TeX proof of this? >_>.
00:53:03 <Razor-X> But, it's hard to see without only ASCII on IRC.
00:53:15 <Razor-X> (Note. I should be studying for my Statistics final. Do I care? No.)
00:53:22 <ihope_> Oh, wait, I meant |0>/sqrt 2 + |1>/sqrt 2.
00:53:36 <Razor-X> So, uh ... |0> is divided by sqrt(2) ?
00:53:51 <Razor-X> But what value does |0> have?
00:54:05 <ihope_> |0> is just |0>. It's like a variable.
00:55:14 <Razor-X> But then, since |0> is symbolysis for physics cr*p, then you can at most simplify to |0>/sqrt(2) ?
00:55:32 <ihope_> Well, |0> and |0>/sqrt(2) are different thinges.
00:55:50 <Razor-X> Well, yeah... I understand that...
00:55:54 <AndrewNP> Yeah. Think of it as an ordered pair with |0> and |1> coordinates.
00:56:16 <Razor-X> What operations can you do to these |0> and |1> ?
00:57:12 <Razor-X> There must be some repeatability in the operations to produce logic with them, no?
00:57:16 <ihope_> An example would be the Hadamard gate, which turns |0> into (|0> + |1>)/sqrt(2) and |1> into (|0> - |1>)/sqrt(2).
00:58:07 <Razor-X> How do you perform logic, then?
00:58:22 <Razor-X> With different gates, on a bit level?
00:58:24 <ihope_> Well, there's, say, the Toffoli gate, which is simply a logic gate turned quantum.
00:58:41 <lament> toffoli gate is not quantum.
00:58:50 <lament> it operates on regular bits.
00:59:05 <ihope_> The Toffoli gate leaves everything the same, except that it turns |110> into |111> and vice versa.
00:59:07 <AndrewNP> But the Toffoli gate IS reversible, one-to-one, which is what all quantum gates need to be.
00:59:31 <AndrewNP> Something about thermodynamics. Don't know, don't care.
00:59:49 <Razor-X> So there's no such thing as a ``Quantum Truth Table'' ?
01:00:14 <ihope_> Well, yes, but they're more complicated.
01:00:25 <AndrewNP> Quantum gates use a square matrix to describe the transformation.
01:00:54 <ihope_> Well, the outputs can be any quantum states, instead of simple bits.
01:01:45 <Razor-X> But here, the quantum states are |0> and |1> ?
01:02:04 <ihope_> Yeah, those are just the base states.
01:02:38 <ihope_> You can also have things like (|0> + |1>)/sqrt(2).
01:03:21 <Razor-X> So, all you can do is divide by sqrt(2) one or both of the quantum states?
01:03:48 <ihope_> There are also states like -|1> and |1>i.
01:04:09 <Razor-X> Well, |1>-1 is the same thing as -|1> ?
01:04:11 <ihope_> The only rule for quantum states is that the squares of the absolute values have to add up to 1.
01:04:31 <AndrewNP> Razor: It has to be in the form a|0>+b|1>.
01:04:38 <AndrewNP> Adding a constant is meaningless.
01:05:10 <Razor-X> abs( a|0> ? b|1> )^2 = 1 ?
01:05:16 <GregorR-W> Trying to pastebin an explanation of matrix notation, but it's being slow >_<
01:05:23 <Razor-X> abs( a|0> + b|1> )^2 = 1 ?
01:05:51 <AndrewNP> And as ihope pointed out, a and b can be complex.
01:05:52 <GregorR-W> http://pastebin.ca/101581 < matrix notation
01:06:33 <AndrewNP> To use the quantum gate, you just have to multiply the state vector by the matrix.
01:07:01 <AndrewNP> For example, for a single qubit a|0>+b|1>, the state vector is [a,b].
01:07:20 <Razor-X> But, you would get a resulting matrix then, no?
01:07:28 <Razor-X> Isn't the goal to get a resulting vector?
01:07:35 <AndrewNP> A vector times a matrix is a vector.
01:07:43 <AndrewNP> And since the matrix is square, it'll be the same dimension.
01:08:00 <Razor-X> Ah, OK, so then these gates are scientifically designed to be possible?
01:08:09 <ihope_> Yep, something like that.
01:08:23 <AndrewNP> Don't ask me how. Maybe ihope knows? (If you care, that is.)
01:08:38 <GregorR-W> IIRC, at least a few exist in reality.
01:08:44 <ihope_> Well, what do you mean by "these gates"?
01:09:02 <ihope_> But which ones are "these" ones?
01:09:14 <AndrewNP> The ones that are used in QC. Hadamard, CNOT, and so forth.
01:09:36 <ihope_> Well, if they weren't actually possible, we probably wouldn't be using them.
01:09:53 <AndrewNP> There is one limitation, though. QC gates have to be "unitary" matrices.
01:10:29 <AndrewNP> Its conjugate transpose has to equal its inverse.
01:10:37 <ihope_> I don't know if there are any rules other than that they have to be unitary and they have to actually produce valid states.
01:10:57 * Razor-X decides to look up Matrix conjugate transposes.
01:11:45 <Razor-X> Then, I gather there's a large-but-finite amount of states?
01:12:14 <AndrewNP> Any two complex numbers that obey |a|^2 + |b|^2 = 1 are legal.
01:12:41 <Razor-X> .... I'll assume that complex numbers can be states too :P.
01:13:01 <AndrewNP> Yeah. You could have 3/5i |0> + -4/5 |1>.
01:13:06 <Razor-X> Anyhow, how does this fit into computing?
01:13:15 <ihope_> You can compute with these.
01:13:20 <AndrewNP> Well, the real magic happens once you get more than one qubit.
01:13:29 <ihope_> For multiple qubits, you have things in the form a|00> + b|01> + c|10> + d|11>.
01:13:44 <Razor-X> But, can 4 qubits go into one gate?
01:13:46 <ihope_> And |a|^2 + |b|^2 + |c|^2 + |d|^2 = 1.
01:13:56 <ihope_> Razor-X: if it's a 4-qubit gate, yes :-)
01:14:14 <AndrewNP> Yep. 4x4 matrices = 2-qubit gates. 8x8 = 3 qubits.
01:14:23 <Razor-X> So the rules stay the same, just reversible and produces valid states?
01:14:51 <Razor-X> Is there any math to decrease the ``circuitry'' involved?
01:15:04 <Razor-X> Like a K-map or something?
01:16:07 <Razor-X> Well wait... because normal bits have two possible states, you can produce logic in the form of base-2 numbers..., if the number of possible states is infinite, you have base-infinite numbers???
01:16:28 <AndrewNP> The numbers are actually *probabilities*.
01:16:55 <AndrewNP> That when you observe the bit or do something irreversible, the value will be |0> or |1>.
01:17:16 <Razor-X> So... if you want a |1>, you want to get the probability for |0> as low as possible?
01:17:45 <GregorR-W> All the qubits in QBF start as (0,1), so that's easy :P
01:17:59 <Razor-X> So that also chops down the number of possible states by a lot too, if you want totally probably states, no?
01:18:03 <ihope_> But if you want a |1>, you can just pull one out of thin air.
01:18:11 <ihope_> Razor-X: if you want what?
01:18:49 <AndrewNP> Yeah. Part of the problem with QC is figuring out a way to make the correct answer the probable outcome.
01:18:53 <GregorR-W> Mind you, I believe that in QBF you can actually only achieve about six states ...
01:19:12 <ihope_> GregorR-W: what're those?
01:19:22 <AndrewNP> Razor: 'Cause once you observe something, it stays in that state. It collapses to a pure |0> or |1>.
01:19:41 <Razor-X> So, the goal of qubits is to apply a certain number of gates until the probability for a certain qubit becomes 1 and the rest 0?
01:19:55 <GregorR-W> OK, much more than six, but finite :P
01:19:58 <ihope_> Razor-X: well, sort of, yeah.
01:20:26 <AndrewNP> Well, you usually can't guarantee a 100% probability, but if you get a high figure and run the algorithm several times, you should get a pretty good idea of the answer.
01:20:36 <Razor-X> What's the advantage of quantum computing over binary computing?
01:20:47 <GregorR-W> (0, 1), (1, 0), (1/sqrt(2), 1/sqrt(2)), (1/sqrt(2), -1/sqrt(2)), (0, i), (i, 0), (0, -1), (-1, 0), (0, -i), (-i, 0), (i/sqrt(2), i/sqrt(2)), (i/sqrt(2), -i/sqrt(2)), (-1/sqrt(2), -1/sqrt(2)), (-1/sqrt(2), 1/sqrt(2)), (-i/sqrt(2), i/sqrt(2))
01:20:49 <ihope_> Razor-X: doing lots at the same time.
01:21:05 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000]").
01:21:47 <AndrewNP> Razor: The number of states that can be manipulated at once goes up exponentially with the number of qubits.
01:22:12 <ihope_> If you put something into a superposition of every basis state, then apply some function to it...
01:22:14 <Razor-X> But, what's the advantage to the different number of states?
01:22:33 <AndrewNP> Each one represents a binary number. Like |01001>.
01:22:51 <AndrewNP> So with 5 qubits, you can apply the function to the range [0..31] simultaneously.
01:23:21 <AndrewNP> Now the lightbulb goes off, and she becomes a believer. :)
01:23:21 <Razor-X> What operations does QBF allow?
01:23:50 <AndrewNP> And with QC, you can access some of the weirder parts of quantum physics. Like entanglement.
01:23:55 <ihope_> Hadamard gate, controlled-V gate, swap.
01:24:01 <AndrewNP> The bits don't have to be indpendent of each other.
01:24:20 <AndrewNP> Using probabilities instead of those godawful magnitudes, let's say you have...
01:24:21 <Razor-X> The Hadamard gate and controlled-V gates have their own matricies, I gather?
01:24:36 <ihope_> Razor-X: well, just don't thing of them apart. And yes, they have their own matrices.
01:24:54 <AndrewNP> 10% |00> + 20% |01> + 30% |10> + 40% |11>.
01:25:15 <Razor-X> 100%! Woohoo! I can count!
01:25:21 <ihope_> Instead of two (|0> + |1>)/sqrt(2) that have to be the same, you can just have (|00> + |11>)/sqrt(2).
01:25:41 <AndrewNP> Better example, ihope. I yield to you.
01:25:45 <Razor-X> So if the probability of two qubits is the same, they're considered to be the same qubit?
01:26:16 <AndrewNP> Well, when you have two or more qubits, you can't consider them in isolation.
01:26:38 <AndrewNP> In ihope's case, whatever the first bit is observed to be, the second bit will NECESSARILY be also.
01:26:59 <AndrewNP> In my case, observing one bit will alter the probability state of the other bit.
01:27:16 <AndrewNP> If you've taken a stats class, this should all be simple enough. ;)
01:27:18 <Razor-X> Physically though, you can only view one of the two, no?
01:27:38 <AndrewNP> Nah, you can view any one of them. Ideally, at least.
01:28:12 <AndrewNP> Probably. And the probability of each outcome is determined, again, by the overall matrix.
01:28:35 <AndrewNP> So for ihope, there's a 50-50 chance of seeing |00> or |11>. But you will NOT get |10> or |01>.
01:29:33 <Razor-X> But if physically you only see one of the two, what's the point of them having the same probability other than to confuse?
01:30:13 <AndrewNP> Well, ihope's case is more to give you a feel of how it works.
01:30:33 <AndrewNP> I don't think it would occur in a practical algorithm.
01:31:01 <Razor-X> Well, it doesen't seem *too* complicated... if that's all there is to it....
01:31:20 <Razor-X> At a very high, abstract, I-don't-care-about-the-very-complicated-physics level.
01:31:29 <AndrewNP> Yeah, the math concepts are pretty easy. The challenge is designing algorithms for it.
01:31:41 <Razor-X> Seems like a perfect job for the Esolang community.
01:32:02 <AndrewNP> And, of course, there's the hardware level. They think 7 qubits is an accomplishment. They factored 15.
01:33:39 <AndrewNP> Razor: Yeah, that could be a good field of study.
01:33:57 <AndrewNP> Certainly more fruitful than "How many ways can we encode Brainf***?" X-D
01:34:34 <Razor-X> Well, 7 qubits is better than binary for sure.
01:34:35 <AndrewNP> like a perfect job for the Esolang community.
01:34:35 <AndrewNP> [20:31] <AndrewNP> And, of course, there's the hardware level. They think 7 qubits is an accomplish
01:35:16 <AndrewNP> Sorry. Need to not play with ctrl-C while this window is open. ^^;;;
01:35:31 <Razor-X> Is the QBF interpreter ready yet?
01:36:18 <ihope_> But with ! and % and & and such.
01:36:24 <Razor-X> But I mean..., you don't have a ``tape'' here do you?
01:36:48 <AndrewNP> It works on a "tape" of qubits.
01:37:06 <ihope_> All initialized to |1>.
01:37:18 <AndrewNP> ihope: Any reason for that instead of |0>?
01:37:42 <AndrewNP> Well, the qubits can be entangled, as in a single register.
01:37:46 <ihope_> AndrewNP: well, it might actually be impossible to create a NOT gate.
01:38:21 <AndrewNP> Oh right. 'Cause of the controls. Do they make "inverse-controlled" gates?
01:38:27 <ihope_> But it's possible to get a CNOT, so it starts with |1> so people can use that.
01:38:56 <ihope_> And they don't make gates wholesale. :-)
01:39:21 <AndrewNP> Heh. I meant, like, physically and mathically speaking.
01:39:26 <Razor-X> So You can invert one way but not the other?
01:40:08 <AndrewNP> Well, controlled gates only work if there's a |1> bit somewhere.
01:40:30 <AndrewNP> Like, if bit one = 1, do THIS to bit two.
01:40:43 <AndrewNP> It's a convenient way to entangle two qubits.
01:42:27 <AndrewNP> Make their states codependent.
01:42:44 <Razor-X> By changing the probabilities?
01:43:14 <AndrewNP> Pretty much. Controlled gates change |10> and |11> without touching |00> or |01>.
01:43:47 <ihope_> Well, if we have multiple qubits, then we use |00> and such as basis states instead of |0> and such.
01:44:11 <Razor-X> I feel happy with my now-new-knowledge in fancy lingo.
01:45:24 <ihope_> The problem with bra-ket notation is that it can be tricky to tell | and 1 apart :-
01:45:52 <Razor-X> My font sees it fine, heh.
01:47:04 <ihope_> Razor-X: I mean when writing them down. I tend to write both the same, except with | a bit longer.
01:47:29 <Razor-X> I write the 1 with the extra appendage up top.
01:48:13 <AndrewNP> In QBF, you take a classical bit from cin and write it to the current qubit. Right?
01:48:29 <ihope_> AndrewNP: that's one way of doing it.
01:48:33 <Razor-X> So then, you're manipulating 8 qubits, I imagine?
01:50:38 <AndrewNP> Eh, I guess you could handle it like that BIT language, where it reads in the character 1 bit at a time...
01:50:53 <AndrewNP> The only problem is, since it's ASCII, you'd never get a 1 for the high bit.
01:51:27 <pikhq> If you give it Unicode, you could.
01:51:52 <Razor-X> Or if you only limit it to 7 qubits....
01:52:02 <Razor-X> (Which seems physically possible, at least.)
01:52:58 <AndrewNP> Well, I don't think you have to limit the qubits -- since you can write the input one bit at a time.
01:53:38 <AndrewNP> Right. Maybe you could just discard every 8th bit...?
01:55:08 <Razor-X> Well, that would also be quite painful.
01:55:17 <Razor-X> More so than it already is with matricies :P.
01:56:15 <AndrewNP> True. I guess you could just live with the always-zeroed bit.
01:56:34 <AndrewNP> The bigger concern would be actually writing it. Since you'd probably have to observe and collapse the qubit first.
01:57:05 <AndrewNP> So that it'd be in a pure state that could be flipped.
01:57:22 <ihope_> If you want to write to a qubit, discard it and get a new one :-)
01:57:42 <AndrewNP> But what would that do to the existing state vector?
01:57:52 <AndrewNP> I wanna make sure whatever happens is physically possible.
01:58:02 <AndrewNP> If, God forbid, QBF becomes *the* language for QCs.
01:58:05 <Razor-X> You can't flip non-collapsed qubits?
01:58:18 <Razor-X> Well, if we have enough algorithms, it'll probably be used in the beginning.
01:58:27 <AndrewNP> Well, you could, but you wouldn't have a guaranteed |0> or |1>.
01:58:32 <ihope_> Razor-X: nah, something like QPL would be used.
01:58:53 <ihope_> You can throw away qubits just by keeping them somewhere safe.
01:59:47 <AndrewNP> Hm... I guess that could work. As long as you don't observe it, the probabilities of the other qubits should stay the same,
02:02:08 <AndrewNP> But if you did a lot of input, you'd end up with a lot of discarded qubits. And would it even be *possible* to swap qubits out of a register?
02:02:48 <ihope_> You can move qubits out of a register by physically transporting them, or by using quantum teleportation.
02:03:34 <AndrewNP> Yeah, but could you do that without totally disrupting the rest of the register, is my question.
02:04:15 <AndrewNP> Eh, if you say so. I'm not the physics... knowing... guy here.
02:04:36 <ihope_> Unless all the stuff I know about observing quantum states is wrong. Not that I know much...
02:05:16 <Razor-X> .... Quantum teleportation?
02:05:34 <Razor-X> It exists, it's always existed.
02:07:02 <AndrewNP> By entangling one qubit with another, you can set it up so that the one's state can be saved to the other when you collapse it.
02:07:18 <ihope_> Quantum teleportation is some weird thing that allows transmission of a qubit by transmitting two classical bits and using two entangled qubits.
02:07:47 <AndrewNP> Yeah. The classical bits are required if you want any information out of it, so you can't transmit at faster than the speed of light.
02:08:10 <AndrewNP> Though... if the state of the classical bits were agreed upon beforehand, couldn't you get around that rule?
02:08:28 <ihope_> You can't agree on them; they're determined by observation.
02:08:57 <ihope_> Just like you can't have two people agree on the result of flipping a coin.
02:09:11 <AndrewNP> Ohhh. K then. I'll have to reread that part.
02:09:59 <AndrewNP> Ah. Got it. So never mind then.
02:11:09 <AndrewNP> It's a bit weird at first, but it makes sense in terms of entanglement.
02:11:18 <AndrewNP> All you're doing is moving the entangled qubits apart.
02:11:22 <Razor-X> You change the probabilities and they teleport?
02:11:33 <Razor-X> How can you ``move'' a qubit, first of all?
02:11:38 <AndrewNP> The only thing you're "teleporting" is the state of the qubit.
02:11:44 <AndrewNP> You're not actually moving anything physical.
02:11:45 <Razor-X> Hell, I don't even know what a qubit physically represents :P.
02:11:55 <AndrewNP> Neither do most physicists. ;)
02:12:08 <Razor-X> Orwell has given me a great tool to understand all of this.
02:12:13 <Razor-X> Thank you Mr. Orwell, now.....
02:12:15 <AndrewNP> Seriously, they still get into fist fights with philosophers of science about it.
02:12:48 <Razor-X> So..., magically, real bits with real values and qubits have their probabilities change, and they swap like magic?
02:13:45 <Razor-X> Not magic. But doublethink.
02:15:55 <AndrewNP> Yeah, I still don't get how it works, math-wise. But rest assured, when the one qubit gets observed, the other collapses into a state equivalent to that of the first.
02:16:19 <Razor-X> So... the entire tape fills up with qubits of the same value?
02:16:48 <ihope_> Well... that's what happens when you do quantum teleportation.
02:17:20 <Razor-X> Is there a quantum teleportation operation in QBF?
02:17:29 <ihope_> There's a swap operator.
02:17:53 <Razor-X> But does that turn every qubit on the tape to the same value as the current qubit?
02:18:05 <ihope_> Nope; it just swaps two qubits.
02:18:08 <Razor-X> Or is the qubit only collapsed when you output it?
02:18:24 <ihope_> Outputting can collapse a qubit, and loops always do.
02:18:32 <ihope_> You could probably construct quantum teleportation in QBF.
02:18:52 <AndrewNP> I would assume so. If your gates are computationally complete, which I think I saw some citation saying they are.
02:19:45 <AndrewNP> Maybe that'd be a good program. Combine QBF with classical BoolF to simulate teleportation?
02:20:04 <Razor-X> I still don't understand the exact process behind a teleportation.....
02:20:21 <Razor-X> So how can you make QBF do it?
02:20:56 <ihope_> I can't, but somebody else probably could :-P
02:21:09 <Razor-X> How did I know you'd say that? :P.
02:21:39 <AndrewNP> You'd need to entangle the qubits, observe one, and somehow use its state to control what is done to the other.
02:22:02 <Razor-X> Can't you make a loop do that?
02:22:14 <AndrewNP> *Maybe*[21:17] <ihope_> Nope; it just swaps two qubits.
02:22:14 <AndrewNP> [21:17] <Razor-X> Or is the qubit only collapsed when you output it?
02:22:41 * Razor-X ignores the fact that she seems to be in each of those pastes.
02:22:58 * AndrewNP kills the hypersensitive Insert key.
02:23:12 <AndrewNP> Anyway, it SHOULD be possible to make a loop do what needs to be done.
02:23:51 <AndrewNP> The only trick would be moving the pointer to a pure |0> so that it doesn't repeat the operation.
02:24:18 <ihope_> Well, with quantum teleportation, it'd be "easy" to construct a quantum network.
02:24:48 <pikhq> With quantum foo, it'd be "easy" to bar. :p
02:25:02 <Razor-X> Are there any other quantum programming languages out there?
02:25:11 <ihope_> Other than QBF and QPL?
02:25:39 <ihope_> http://www.google.com/search?q=Quantum+programming+language
02:25:58 <pikhq> I think QBF is a first generation QPL. ;)
02:26:18 <pikhq> That scares me, to tell you the truth.
02:26:37 <ihope_> Maybe there isn't a language called QPL.
02:26:40 <Razor-X> At least we're doing something useful.
02:26:51 <Razor-X> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_programming_language
02:26:57 <ihope_> I must have been thinking of QCL.
02:27:24 <Razor-X> And I can doublethink myself into assuming it's all possible and existable.
02:27:36 <AndrewNP> Then again, do we really NEED quantum-specific languages beyond the assembly level?
02:27:51 <AndrewNP> Seems you could just have the compiler optimize quantum-efficient algorithms. Maybe.
02:27:57 <ihope_> Do we really NEED classical programming languages beyond the assembly level?
02:28:50 <AndrewNP> No, no, I mean, we can avoid the quantum nastiness. Keep the high-level languages classical, and let the compiler take care of the quantum stuff.
02:29:19 <Razor-X> At some peoint, algorithms probably need to be changed.
02:29:21 <AndrewNP> I can't imagine your average monkey-suited coder wants to learn complex linear algebra just to factor a number. ;)
02:29:33 <Razor-X> You can simulate a classical computer, but I don't think it'll be as effecient.
02:29:47 <ihope_> Well, if your compiler can completely rewrite algorithms...
02:30:07 <Razor-X> Finally! The end of the Silicon Valley army of Coders-With-No-Heart!
02:30:10 <pikhq> AndrewNP: The average code-monkey doesn't even want to learn basic arithmetic.
02:31:27 <pikhq> Jeez. I'm in *high school*, and I know more then a code-monkey could ever hope to learn.
02:31:50 <Razor-X> I'm in high school too, ya know.
02:32:01 <Razor-X> Which is why I'm using doublethink to quell my curiosity.
02:32:26 <AndrewNP> ihope: Okay, so it was a stupid idea and I apologize. But how well is this quantum stuff going to mesh with all our existing languages...?
02:32:44 <AndrewNP> I can see it now: "import java.quantum.*;"
02:33:02 <AndrewNP> Because Java will not die, as much as it may deserve to.
02:33:07 <pikhq> I'm just saying that, even with the math knowledge from high school math, it is p[ossible to know much, much more then a code-monkey. . .
02:33:29 <ihope_> Yeah, there are ways to combine quantum stuff with current languages.
02:33:41 <Razor-X> Well, I have a nice advantage.
02:34:04 <ihope_> But oddly enough, quantum stuff at base seems to be imperative.
02:34:09 <Razor-X> So, if I don't understand something, either I'll spend many of my 22 hours searching for how to understand something, or badger someone to death until they tell me.
02:34:57 <pikhq> Razor-X: That's fairly normal in my experience. ;p
02:35:19 <Razor-X> Most high-schoolers want to do this weird thing called ``sleep'' when they're done with homework and studying.
02:36:00 <pikhq> And most high-schoolers want to do this weird thing called "studying". Why bother? I know more then the teacher already! :p
02:36:26 <AndrewNP> Just remember, kids: if they knew anything about the subject, they wouldn't be stuck in a teaching job! :)
02:43:40 <AndrewNP> Well, I think I'm gonna call it a night. You guys -- and lady :) -- stay classy out there.
02:43:49 -!- AndrewNP has quit ("See ya!").
03:07:05 <Razor-X> I have a few more questions about QBF, if someone wants to entertain me.
03:07:58 <Razor-X> What does QBF output when the probabilities aren't totally certain?
03:08:04 <Razor-X> Output the most likely one, or error out?
03:08:45 <Razor-X> Or output using a weighted distribution?
03:10:48 <ihope_> Well, I think the current distribution chooses randomly.
03:11:02 <ihope_> s/distribution/implementation/ (common typo, eh?)
03:12:45 <Razor-X> And what's the matrix for a Hadamard gate?
03:14:11 <ihope_> Divided by the square root of two.
03:15:57 <Razor-X> Now. Time to pursue my semi-useful idea.
03:16:10 <Razor-X> Oh yeah, and where can you get this awesome piece of interpreter from, and what's it written in?
03:16:55 <ihope_> It's written in Python, and it's probably at the file archive.
03:17:39 <ihope_> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/qbf/impl/
03:19:46 <ihope_> (|useful> + |not useful>)/sqrt(2)
03:19:46 <Razor-X> It's an idea I got from my Statistics final.
03:20:25 <pikhq> Statistics == Math for a business major.
03:20:34 <pikhq> AKA pure bullshit.
03:20:41 <Razor-X> But it gave me a nifty idea.
03:20:57 <Razor-X> Our teacher allowed us a letter-paper page front-and-back of notes.
03:21:20 <ihope_> You're lucky. My algebra teacher only gave me an index card for notes.
03:21:33 <Razor-X> So, a thought struck me at making a form of condensed English that's human readable and reproducable.
03:21:37 <pikhq> Notes? Bah, humbug. . .
03:21:48 <Razor-X> It's a summer course with a nice teacher.
03:21:49 <ihope_> I stuffed it full of formulas and only used one.
03:21:54 <Razor-X> My teachers have never given me notes in the past.
03:22:00 <pikhq> Razor-X: Got it already. I'll try making a document to explain it for you.
03:22:24 <pikhq> Boredom inspired. ;)
03:22:29 <Razor-X> Can it reproduce mathematical formulae?
03:23:27 <pikhq> I can't help but think that making a formula any more condensed and it won't be understandable. . .
03:23:41 <pikhq> Unless, of course, you don't mind postfix notation. :p
03:24:08 <Razor-X> I was thinking of implementing a functional style notation to represent mathematical operations.
03:24:25 <pikhq> Now that could be interesting.
03:24:34 <Razor-X> Well, it's easy to condense and read.
03:25:05 <Razor-X> I was also going to condense the most common English polygraphs.
03:25:25 <Razor-X> ps, th, ch, ough, ead, ae, and others.
03:25:30 <Razor-X> Needs some time and analysis.
03:25:37 <pikhq> What I produced was simply a very condensed writing system for English, taking advantage of the fact that 'nglsh 's vr rdbl whn wrttn 's 'n 'bjd.
03:26:15 <Razor-X> I was thinking of omitting vowels, but I wasn't sure.
03:26:24 <Razor-X> Or simply implying glide using an accent on the consonant.
03:26:34 <pikhq> That, alone, makes it much shorter. . .
03:27:00 <Razor-X> (Of course, the accent is on top of the letter.)
03:27:21 <pikhq> I made my writing system so that I can write each characters using one stroke on the paper, so that I can write in it much faster. . .
03:27:27 <pikhq> Probably not something you need.
03:27:42 <Razor-X> My requirement is that it must be TeX-symbol compatible.
03:27:58 <Razor-X> Handywrite does shorthand well enough.
03:28:07 <pikhq> It's new graphomes entirely.
03:28:18 <pikhq> Pretty much, it's my own, personal shorthand. ;)
03:28:19 <Razor-X> Yeah, this must be printable by a computer.
03:28:29 <Razor-X> Because a computer can get a lot more condensed than my hand can ;).
03:28:58 <pikhq> I'm capable of writing stuff that's very small. . .
03:29:18 <pikhq> Roughly 9pt font, I believe.
03:29:35 <Razor-X> It's double worse because I'm a girl X_X.
03:30:05 <Razor-X> Because girls must have good handwriting. It's social stigma.
03:30:36 <Razor-X> Not that I care that much, but it's a good asset to have >_>.
03:30:55 <pikhq> I think that being a good typist is a much more useful skill, personally.
03:31:09 <Razor-X> I was thinking of borrowing Greek letters too, but mathematical functions use those.
03:31:19 <Razor-X> It maybe more concise to use global Greek letters.
03:31:26 <pikhq> People are *impressed* by me typing at 70 wpm. :/
03:31:29 <Razor-X> So maybe Hebrew, if TeX supports it by default.
03:32:07 <pikhq> I've got fat fingers, which sort of slows my typing speed; need to go back and correct myself.
03:32:38 <Razor-X> There are some advantages to having ``dainty'' hands :P.
03:32:56 <Razor-X> I use an IBM Model M all the same.
03:33:24 <pikhq> I'm thinking about learning Dvorak sometime. . .
03:33:53 <pikhq> Also. . . I WANNA BUCKLING SPRING! :'(
03:34:45 <Razor-X> It's reeeeaaaalllyyy nice.
03:35:06 <pikhq> Now, if I can get a Dvorak buckling spring keyboard, I'll be incredibly happy.
03:35:26 <Razor-X> IBM Model M's can be rearranged.
03:35:35 <Razor-X> (Except the home keys will lose their little indentation.)
03:37:28 <pikhq> qId rather not do xmodmap for it.
03:38:00 <Razor-X> I don't use xmodmap, I load the keymap itself.
03:38:51 <pikhq> Remind me to stab whoever thought that mapping xoff to C-a s was a good idea, please.
03:40:24 <pikhq> It's so easy to accidently hit C-a s when trying to type just C-a. . .
03:40:54 <pikhq> And, since you don't really notice it, you just think that the screen session locked up on you.
03:43:01 <Razor-X> I use Emacs binds, so meh.
03:44:01 <Razor-X> I'm thinking of also using tense modifiers in the condensed English.
03:44:09 <pikhq> Screen can do Emacs binds?
03:45:22 <Razor-X> Oh. I rebound screen to the character C-z.
03:45:44 <Razor-X> Because Emacs uses C-a for beginning-of-line.
03:46:09 <pikhq> I've gotten used to doing C-a a. . .
03:46:41 <pikhq> Just too lazy to figure out what to do to my .screenrc. ;)
04:04:19 <GregorR> EgoBot going down for upgrades.
04:04:46 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:05:19 <pikhq> I'm thinking about doing a presentation on esoteric languages for the local LUG. . .
04:12:20 <ihope_> Do the upgrades include a QBF thing?
04:13:26 <GregorR> Yes, but that's the least notable part :P
04:13:51 <GregorR> Can you give me the URL so I don't have to dig? :P
04:14:02 <GregorR> The most significant part if I ever get it working is persistent daemons.
04:14:10 <ihope_> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/qbf/impl/
04:14:45 <ihope_> But shouldn't you wait for the restart-for-upgrades until you've actually finished them? :-P
04:15:30 <GregorR> I finished it, it just doesn't work.
04:16:06 <ihope_> If it doesn't work, then how is it finished?
04:16:15 <GregorR> OK, lemme put it this way:
04:16:18 <GregorR> I wrote the code, but it's buggy.
04:16:51 <ihope_> Eh, time to go to Sleepyland.
04:17:28 -!- ihope_ has quit ("I don't suppose you're an honorary Sleepyhead too...").
04:47:45 <GregorR> Yeah, let's not patiently let it reload.
04:48:25 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:48:44 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon repeater reload
04:48:51 <GregorR> Watch this, this is amazing.
04:48:58 <GregorR> That daemon was of course killed on the last run.
04:49:05 <GregorR> I already told it Line 1 and Line 2.
04:50:02 <GregorR> Whoops, one more quickfix.
04:50:05 -!- EgoBot has quit (Client Quit).
04:50:37 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:51:18 <lament> GregorR: can you do one change to the interpreter
04:51:43 <lament> GregorR: in qbf.py on line 89 add a , at the end of the line
04:52:02 <lament> so that debug info is shown in one line and displayed in the channel
04:53:32 <lament> but only after you change line 89, or you'll change the wrong line 89 :)
04:54:41 <lament> sorry, i guess i changed the interpreter without telling anybody
04:54:49 <lament> print '%.2f' % (abs(memory.contents[i])**2),
04:54:59 <lament> (note the added comma at the end)
04:55:28 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 1.00 |11> 0.00
04:56:12 <GregorR> Nobody but me realizes how cool this is.
04:56:28 <lament> quantum brainfuck, on the other hand!...
04:56:40 <GregorR> Now we could, for example, implement a daemon to store memos to eachother with no fear of losing them.
04:56:48 <GregorR> Or, at least, much less fear.
04:57:08 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
04:57:16 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
04:57:34 <GregorR> Erk what? That seems right.
04:58:00 <lament> the ordering of the states is the reverse of what it should be
04:58:16 <GregorR> Yeah, should be 00 01 10 11
04:58:32 <lament> it just has the strings reversed
04:59:37 <lament> the direction of the memory tape is to the right
04:59:45 <lament> but the direction in which binary numbers "grow" is to the left
04:59:53 <lament> so when i add a third qubit
05:00:11 <lament> it will show up on the wrong side
05:00:24 <EgoBot> |000> 0.00 |100> 0.00 |010> 0.00 |110> 0.50 |001> 0.00 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 0.50
05:00:38 <GregorR> Ah, right is left, left is right.
05:01:16 <lament> so the trick is to think of these |x> things as pieces of Brainfuck memory tape
05:01:30 <lament> 011 means 3 memory cells that contain 0,1,1
05:02:14 <EgoBot> |000> 0.12 |100> 0.12 |010> 0.12 |110> 0.12 |001> 0.12 |101> 0.12 |011> 0.12 |111> 0.12
05:03:16 <lament> | could mean "start of tape" and > "the direction in which the tape can grow
05:04:28 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
05:05:24 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
05:05:36 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
05:05:44 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
05:06:04 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
05:06:18 <EgoBot> |00> 0.25 |10> 0.25 |01> 0.25 |11> 0.25
05:06:38 <EgoBot> 1 0 |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 1.00 |11> 0.00
05:12:41 <lament> !qbf mwahahahahahahahahhaaaaaa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>#
05:12:55 <EgoBot> |000000000000000> 0.00 |100000000000000> 0.00 |010000000000000> 0.00 |110000000000000> 0.00 |001000000000000> 0.00 |101000000000000> 0.00 |011000000000000> 0.00 |111000000000000> 0.00 |000100000000000> 0.00 |100100000000000> 0.00 |010100000000000> 0.00 |110100000000000> 0.00 |001100000000000> 0.00 |101100000000000> 0.00 |011100000000000> 0.00 |111100000000000> 0.00 |000010000000
05:14:22 <lament> the complete output is ~750 KB
05:16:16 <GregorR> Committed latest egobot to files archive.
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05:37:56 <thematrixeatsyou> (((((((((())))))))))(()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()())((()()()()())((())(())(())(())(())(())(())(()))(()()()()()()()))((()()()()()()()()())(())()()()()()()())
05:38:56 <thematrixeatsyou> it's called RETURN. want it on the wiki? no implementation yet but I'll get onto it.
05:51:46 <Razor-X> By far the most exciting part of quantum computing is not that we're advancing science, but the fact that you get to say ``Hadamard'' in your head when thinking about programming.
05:51:55 <Razor-X> It's almost as cool a name as ``Backus-Naur''.
05:57:19 <Razor-X> Come on. Don't you all agree?
06:04:18 <thematrixeatsyou> then again, the (((((((((())))))))))(()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()())((()()()()())((())(())(())(())(())(())(())(()))(()()()()()()()))((()()()()()()()()())(())()()()()()()()) would ring a wtf
06:07:27 <Razor-X> Well, ``Backus-Naur'' is just an awesome cool name.
06:12:44 * GregorR considers writing a persistent daemon to manage the contest.
06:13:34 <Razor-X> Well, we need a voting mechanism.
06:13:39 <Razor-X> In some language or the other.
06:22:10 <Razor-X> If we're doing it in Glass, I want to make it look as much like disfigured smilies as possible.
06:22:27 <Razor-X> Although I was thinking of an INTERCAL version.
06:23:41 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
06:23:43 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
06:23:46 * GregorR doesn't recall whether he even has INTERCAL on the bot ...
06:24:08 <Razor-X> It's not a turing tarpit, unlike most of those.
06:24:38 <Razor-X> INTERCAL forces you to think in... interesting ways, so it's fun.
06:25:13 <Razor-X> I've been meaning to make a BF interpreter in INTERCAL, but I'm too lazy to do it as of now :P.
06:25:38 <Razor-X> I'm not sure if the INTERCAL compiler dynamically allocates arrays either, because dynamic arrays are a total *pain* in INTERCAL.
06:27:53 <GregorR> Hm, is there an INTERCAL interpreter?
06:28:18 <Razor-X> I use the standard C-INTERCAL compiler.
06:28:43 <Razor-X> You'll also have to implement the standard library in it.
06:29:19 <GregorR> To work in EgoBot, needs an interpreter.
06:29:35 <Razor-X> Mmmm. Maybe I'll make one.
06:29:40 <Razor-X> What're the interpreters written in? C++?
06:30:07 <lament> thematrixeatsyou: "The memory allocation is the same as in Brainfuck: 8-bits, planar." - that is wrong
06:30:19 <GregorR> "The only symbols used are the two standard brackets ( and )" ... these aren't brackets.
06:30:19 <lament> thematrixeatsyou: brainfuck never specifies what the memory allocation is.
06:30:34 <Razor-X> GregorR: They are in some countries.
06:30:36 <GregorR> Razor-X: Heww no, fork and exec.
06:31:09 * GregorR never knew they were called brackets anywhere.
06:31:11 <Razor-X> In America they're called parentheses.
06:31:38 <thematrixeatsyou> in new zealand, britain, australia, and virtually all of europe they're called brackets.
06:31:53 <Razor-X> Because ] are also brackets.
06:32:10 <Eidolos> Yes. [ and ] are brackets, ( and ) are parentheses, { and } are braces, < and > are angle brackets, etc.
06:32:35 <thematrixeatsyou> what i mean by memory allocation is that the memory works the same way
06:33:03 <lament> then change the : to ,
06:33:42 <lament> your language seems a bit too much like brainfuck
06:34:00 <lament> Eidolos: write me a quantum brainfuck program!
06:34:17 <Eidolos> I know virtually nothing about quantum mechanics. Sorry.
06:34:18 <Razor-X> I should write a QBF program.
06:34:26 <Razor-X> Now that I know t3h basics.
06:34:44 <GregorR> So, my list of possible states ... at all accurate?
06:35:37 <lament> i guess the boring way to do that would be to implement the standard logic gates (you can just solve for them, it's easy) and then you can write any non-quantum program
06:35:47 <Razor-X> Can you do that in Egobot?
06:35:55 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
06:36:33 <lament> erk i guess solving for them is not _that_ easy, but still doable
06:36:47 <EgoBot> Please enter 1 or 0: Traceback (most recent call last):
06:36:49 <EgoBot> File "./qbf/qbf.py", line 55, in ?
06:37:49 <EgoBot> Please enter 1 or 0: 1
06:37:59 <Razor-X> Alright. that obviously died :D.
06:38:13 <lament> "Please enter 1 or 0:" is the input prompt
06:38:17 <EgoBot> 1 thematrixeatsyou: ps
06:38:27 <lament> and then it happened to also output 1
06:38:31 <Razor-X> Well, I got a PM with an error in it.
06:38:43 <lament> because you didn't enter 1 or 0 like it asks to.
06:38:43 <Razor-X> <EgoBot> i = int(i) <EgoBot> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): a
06:39:01 <EgoBot> Please enter 1 or 0: 0
06:39:11 <lament> now i entered 1 again, but it output 0.
06:39:43 <EgoBot> Please enter 1 or 0: |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
06:39:51 <Razor-X> Does it operate on the same tape head?
06:39:58 <lament> does what operate on what?
06:41:02 <Razor-X> I mean both of the QBF programs.
06:41:25 <lament> you mean if you run two at once?
06:41:44 <Razor-X> If you run two, one after the other.
06:42:03 <GregorR> It's two separate instances of the interpreter.
06:42:14 <GregorR> You'd have to implement multiprocessing in QBF first :P
06:42:14 <lament> the tape is always initialized to all 1s
06:42:33 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
06:43:07 <lament> (the visible part of the tape is 2 qubits long before you start moving the pointer)
06:43:11 <Razor-X> When you give it a `0' for input, you're setting the cell to 00 ?
06:43:21 <lament> you're setting the cell to 0.
06:43:41 <lament> |00> is the state of _two_ cells.
06:43:55 <Razor-X> It automatically uses two qubits then?
06:44:18 <lament> but you can add more by moving the pointer.
06:44:18 <Razor-X> So if you use <, then you could set the previous qubit?
06:44:31 <EgoBot> |000> 0.00 |100> 0.00 |010> 0.00 |110> 0.00 |001> 0.00 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 1.00
06:44:47 <lament> if you use <, the program will likely die.
06:44:53 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
06:45:05 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
06:45:07 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
06:45:26 <lament> Conclusion: Don't use <
06:45:38 <GregorR> Well, don't < past the beginning of the tape.
06:45:40 <lament> (many brainfuck implementations don't like it either)
06:46:14 <lament> also don't use too many > because the memory required increases exponentially.
06:46:39 <lament> I put a hard limit of 20 in the interpreter just in case.
06:47:05 <lament> Adding an extra qubit makes all operations run twice as slowly.
06:47:18 <lament> On a real quantum computer, there would be no difference in speed.
06:48:00 <Razor-X> But this isn't a real quantum computer :P.
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06:51:05 * GregorR wonders why it is that it needed to slow down that much ...
06:51:19 <GregorR> Do you need to do anything with the rest of the qubits when you're looking at some specific one or two?
06:52:17 <GregorR> Hm, other than entanglement?
06:52:19 <lament> GregorR: the operations don't work on qubits, they work on states
06:52:44 <lament> GregorR: any operation will potentially update the probabilities of _all_ states
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06:53:54 <lament> because everything could be entangled with everything else
06:54:06 <Razor-X> What does ``entangled'' mean?
06:54:12 <Razor-X> Non-zero probability of occurring?
06:54:25 <lament> Razor-X: the state of one qubit depends on the state of another qubit.
06:54:41 <GregorR> If you observe one and it's 1, and observe the other, it will be 1.
06:54:55 <Razor-X> What determines entanglement, though?
06:55:04 <Razor-X> (Scratch out ``For sure''.)
06:55:07 <GregorR> Doesn't one of the operations cause entanglement?
06:55:43 <lament> Razor-X: here's an example
06:55:45 <Razor-X> It just swaps the probabilities, no?
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06:56:13 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.50 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.00
06:56:17 <GregorR> If & entangled, it'd be problematic ...
06:56:43 <lament> Razor-X: observe the final state.
06:56:51 <lament> |10> and |01> with equal probability.
06:57:03 <lament> So if we observe the first qubit, and find it to be 1, that means the second one has to be 0.
06:57:24 <lament> If we output the first qubit and then the second, the output is always either 1 0 or 0 1
06:57:41 <Razor-X> Oh OK, if they have equal probability.
06:57:55 <lament> so the state of one qubit depends on the state of the other.
06:58:11 <lament> And if we change the state of one, that could potentially affect the state of the other one.
06:58:14 <Razor-X> Only if the probabilities were equal?
06:58:32 <lament> This has nothing to do with probabilities.
06:58:49 <lament> on the other hand, i have no idea how to make the probabilities be NOT equal.
06:58:59 * lament is still not convinced quantum brainfuck is quantum-complete
06:59:01 <Razor-X> Oh I see, ! is the entanglement one.
06:59:10 <GregorR> With QBF, I'm not sure you can make them anything but 50/50
06:59:29 <lament> and if you can't, that seems to automatically mean it's not quantum-complete
06:59:46 <GregorR> What does "Quantum-complete" mean (to you)?
06:59:53 <lament> i'm not a big fan of it anyway, because it's brainfuck-based
07:00:29 <lament> it means (to me) that any valid state for the qubit register can be reached from the initial state
07:00:52 <lament> and i think the only way to do that is by having a parametrized rotation gate
07:01:08 <GregorR> The parameter would need to be infinitely specifiable ...
07:01:17 <GregorR> That is, specifiable to infinite depth.
07:01:38 <lament> it's possible that you don't actually need that for "quantum logic"
07:01:51 <GregorR> I'm gonna say "probable" :)
07:01:57 <lament> i haven't looked into what the existing quantum algorithms require
07:02:14 <lament> but i doubt they're satisfied with 50-50 splits.
07:02:24 <GregorR> Well, zleep for me. Somebody write a daemon that needs persistence :P
07:04:37 <EgoBot> |000> 0.00 |100> 0.25 |010> 0.25 |110> 0.00 |001> 0.25 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 0.25
07:04:54 <lament> that's a cute final state
07:05:08 <lament> either exactly 1 bit is on, or all three bits are on.
07:06:38 <lament> !qbf >%<%!!%>>%<%!!%<.>.>.
07:07:02 <lament> !qbf >%<%!!%>>%<%!!%<.#
07:07:05 <EgoBot> 0 |000> 0.00 |100> 0.00 |010> 0.50 |110> 0.00 |001> 0.50 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 0.00
07:07:38 <lament> but observing one does not in itself destroy the entanglement of the other two.
07:07:41 <lament> !qbf >%<%!!%>>%<%!!%<.#
07:07:43 <EgoBot> 0 |000> 0.00 |100> 0.00 |010> 0.50 |110> 0.00 |001> 0.50 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 0.00
07:07:50 -!- CXII has quit ("If you're reading this, it's probably xchat's fault.").
07:07:55 <lament> !qbf >%<%!!%>>%<%!!%<.#
07:07:59 <EgoBot> 0 |000> 0.00 |100> 0.00 |010> 0.50 |110> 0.00 |001> 0.50 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 0.00
07:08:01 <lament> !qbf >%<%!!%>>%<%!!%<.#
07:08:03 <EgoBot> 1 |000> 0.00 |100> 0.50 |010> 0.00 |110> 0.00 |001> 0.00 |101> 0.00 |011> 0.00 |111> 0.50
07:09:17 <lament> but if you observe two qubits, you will know for sure what the third one is...
07:11:17 <lament> note that if you observe two qubits, the third one will be XNOR of the other two
07:12:07 <lament> (or even if you don't observe them...)
07:19:57 <Razor-X> So that's an interesting way to make an XNOR gate.
07:26:59 <lament> no, it doesn't actually make an XNOR gate.
07:27:27 <lament> an XNOR gate would have two inputs, look at them and produce two things one of which is XNOR.
07:28:05 <lament> and the second, presumably, one of the original inputs.
07:28:24 <lament> (that way the operation is reversible)
07:30:57 <lament> the first bit of the output is XNOR, the second doesnt change
07:31:52 <lament> so the matrix that does that is
07:33:09 <lament> If you can solve for that matrix using combinations of the ones available in QBF, you'll make a xnor gate.
07:33:54 <lament> (that matrix probably has to be normalized)
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09:53:41 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
09:53:43 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
09:54:52 <bdtg> !bf >,----------[>,----------]++++++++++++++++++++++<[<]>[++++++++++.[>----------------------]+>]<[[-]<]
09:55:13 <bdtg> !i 1 just testing this thing
09:55:45 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
09:55:49 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
10:49:17 -!- bdtg has left (?).
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15:12:52 <EgoBot> bf/, glass/, linguine/
15:13:02 <EgoBot> dice.glass, hangman.glass, urls.glass
15:13:14 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: ./files/glass/dice: No such file or directory
15:41:31 -!- ihope has joined.
15:41:40 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
15:41:42 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
15:42:24 <ihope> !qbf %!!%<%!!%<%!!%<%!!%<%!!%
15:42:28 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last):
15:42:49 <ihope> File "./qbf/qbf.py", line 40, in ?
15:42:54 <ihope> qubit.Hadamard.apply(memory, [qubit_positions[mp]])
15:42:58 <ihope> IndexError: list index out of range
15:43:10 <ihope> That's no fun, eh?
15:43:33 <ihope> !qbf %>%>%>%>%>%>%>%>%
15:45:49 <ihope> !qbf .%.%.%.%.%.%.%.%.
15:46:42 <EgoBot> 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0
15:47:06 <ihope> It's a random number generator. :-)
15:48:34 <ihope> Now to implement Shor's algorithm...
15:51:05 <ihope> First, the random number.
15:51:31 <ihope> Okay, the number is 2. The GCD of 2 and 4 is 2, so we're done.
15:52:16 <ihope> Let's try factoring 6 with a number from 1 to 5.
15:53:28 <ihope> Maybe 1 wasn't supposed to be an option. 2 to 5, then.
15:54:08 <ihope> Our number's 4, so the GCD is 2, so 2 is a factor of 6.
15:55:58 <ihope> Let's factor 9, now. The random number is 5, so the function: f(x) = 5^x mod 9.
16:00:45 <ihope> But that function isn't reversible...
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16:07:44 <ihope> So that's |00000000> -> |00000001>; |00010000> -> |00010101>; |00100000> -> |00100111>; |00110000> -> |00111000>; |01000000> -> |01000100>; |01010000> -> |01010010>; |01100000> -> |01100001>; |01110000> -> |01110101>; |10000000> -> |10000111>.
16:08:13 <ihope> Now we just need a QBF thing that can do that.
16:13:35 <GregorR-W> I agree with lament. We don't need a QBF thing to do anything, we need a quantum language more flexible than QBF.
16:52:50 <ihope> "Quantum INTERCAL" seems quite... well, weird.
17:25:58 <lament> ihope: You can do irreversible stuff in QBF.
17:26:12 <ihope> With observation, yeah.
17:26:22 <lament> i also added two commands, 1 and 0
17:26:32 <lament> that destructively set the current qubit
17:26:47 <lament> of course, they're for debugging only :)
17:28:31 <ihope> !qbf 0.1.0.1.0.1.0.1.
17:28:54 <lament> that doesn't seem right :)
17:28:57 <GregorR-W> sed 's/1/[%!!%]%!!%/g ; s/0/[%!!%]/g'
17:29:20 <ihope> But that's a controlled... thing.
17:29:20 <lament> something's very very wrong :)
17:29:32 <ihope> Loops containing controlled gates are Bad.
17:29:47 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
17:30:08 <lament> this is a horrible horrible bug in the interpreter.
17:33:30 <lament> http://z3.ca/~lament/qubit.py updated
17:34:27 <lament> I still think qubits are boring.
17:34:36 <lament> And we need quantum objects with more states.
17:34:52 <lament> Possibly infinitely many states. :)
17:35:14 <lament> or at least make the states more interesting than 1 and 0
17:35:29 <lament> they could be functions of some kind
17:35:43 <lament> so you can apply a qubit to another qubit...
17:41:12 <lament> more like quantum unlambda
17:42:07 <lament> i suppose that can't work :(
17:42:15 <ihope> Well... how would it work?
17:42:39 <ihope> That just looks like alternate syntax.
17:43:12 <ihope> Well, time to go... somewhere.
17:43:13 <lament> it allows you to turn several different lines of computation at once
17:43:35 <ihope> But I don't see how to construct new ones, or observe anything.
17:43:45 <ihope> If you come up with a spec, let me know :-)
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19:15:43 <Razor-X> We need more committee members!
19:17:32 <lament> i'm pretty sure there's already something very much like quantum haskell.
19:18:42 <Razor-X> Well, there's already quantum lambda calculus, so I wouldn't doubt it.
19:18:58 <Razor-X> I need to do more research into lambda calculus..., anyone have any convenient free sources?
19:20:21 <Razor-X> Thank you for the tip I would never have guessed about.
19:23:33 <GregorR-W> My fav way to say that is "Yeah, there's a great link page at http://www.google.com/search?q=lambda+calculus "
19:24:01 <Razor-X> Yeah. It's quite convenient.
19:28:20 <lament> Razor-X: just start by learning Unlambda, it's what I did.
19:30:24 <Razor-X> I understand the concept of application and combinators.
19:30:29 <Razor-X> But I mean, there must be more.
19:31:03 <lament> do you understand the concept of functions that only take other functions as parameters?
19:31:25 <Razor-X> You have to understand that to code in Haskell too.
19:31:35 <lament> time to learn something new
19:31:43 <lament> take up piano or something
19:31:49 <Razor-X> That's my next thing, yeah.
19:32:27 <Razor-X> The only thing I really don't understand is if you have something like λxyz.zxyx how you expand that.
19:32:40 <Razor-X> I can intuitively figure it out, but bleh.
19:33:13 <lament> you take the things and apply them to each other in the correct order.
19:34:32 <Razor-X> But doesen't it expand to λx(λy(λz((((z)x)y)x))) ?
19:34:49 <Razor-X> So wouldn't you need like... 4 arguments?
19:37:05 <lament> that's three arguments
19:37:42 <Razor-X> Yeah, I know, but it can't magically just bind the first argument to every x, because the x is in different functions.
19:41:26 <lament> then you don't understand the scoping rules of lambda calculus.
19:42:01 <lament> (lambda x . foo) essentially replaces all instances of 'x' inside foo with the real value of x it got passed.
19:42:13 <Razor-X> Well, I can see that intuitively, yeah.
19:42:23 <lament> Except when something inside also uses x as a parameter.
19:42:59 <lament> (\xyz.zxyx) A = \yz.zAyA
19:43:20 <lament> (\yz.zAyA) B = \z.zABA
19:43:41 <Razor-X> Well, why does A bind to `x' in that case?
19:43:56 <Razor-X> I would think it binds to `y' because that's the closest unbound instance....
19:44:13 <lament> \xyz.zxyx = \x.\yz.zxyx
19:44:13 <Razor-X> I mean logically it does, but the definition makes me think otherwise....
19:44:35 <Razor-X> So it bounds to the outermost unbound function first?
19:51:27 <GregorR-W> About the OMGSOFTWARE_MONOPOLYOMGWTFBBQ
19:51:50 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
19:52:30 <lament> i guess there's a bug in qbf
19:52:40 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last):
19:53:15 <Razor-X> The probabilities aren't supposed to be equal?
19:54:09 <Razor-X> So says the author of EgoBot.
19:54:46 <lament> the bug is that you can't do ! when you're at the end of the tape
19:55:08 <lament> the workaround is to make the tape longer by doing >< first
19:55:24 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
19:55:53 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last):
19:57:48 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.50 |01> 0.00 |11> 0.50
19:58:16 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.50 |11> 0.50
19:58:32 <EgoBot> |00> 0.25 |10> 0.25 |01> 0.25 |11> 0.25
19:58:46 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00 |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
19:58:53 <EgoBot> |00> 0.25 |10> 0.25 |01> 0.25 |11> 0.25
19:58:58 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
19:59:08 <lament> Razor-X: Hadamard is its own inverse.
20:00:46 <lament> !qbf !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#
20:00:48 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
20:01:02 <lament> !qbf !%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%!%#
20:01:04 <EgoBot> |00> 0.00 |10> 0.00 |01> 0.00 |11> 1.00
20:03:39 <lament> your MOM uses fortran!
20:04:05 <Razor-X> Yes my Master of Miracles uses FORTRAN.
20:05:47 <Razor-X> Awww. I need to compile GNUPlot first.
20:08:51 <GregorR-W> It's not GNUPlot, it's Gnuplot or gnuplot. The 'gnu' in it has nothing to do with GNU.
20:09:26 <lament> it's just a coincidence.
20:09:28 <GregorR-W> (gnuplot = one author wanted to name it llamaplot, the other newplot, they agreed on gnuplot, since a gnu is an animal not-very-similar to a llama)
20:13:08 -!- ihope has joined.
20:13:43 <ihope> Let's see... split the cursor position in two halves and monitor either the vertical or the horizontal.
20:14:23 <ihope> Get the numbers that correspond to how far it goes up, then how far it goes down, then up, then down...
20:14:55 <ihope> Then take all those modulo 2.
20:15:32 <ihope> Then skew transform.
20:16:17 <ihope> You should end up with a stream that's reasonably random.
20:18:11 <Razor-X> Looks like a Glass program!
20:27:42 <Razor-X> Uggh. Octave takes forever to compile.
20:44:18 <GregorR-W> When I get home somebody remind me to update my hats page.
20:44:33 <GregorR-W> (#esoteric: The world's coolest todo system)
20:46:53 <Razor-X> Let's put a BF daemon notice in.
20:47:45 <GregorR-W> Now there's a good idea for a persistent daemon 8-D
20:50:49 <ihope> !bf_txtgen <GregorR-W> When I get home somebody remind me to update my hats page.
20:51:41 <EgoBot> 621 ++++++++++++++[>++++>+++>++++++++>+++++<<<<-]>++++.>>>+.<++.-------------.++.++++++++.+++.>+++++++++++.<<+++.>>+++++.<<<++.>-------------.>>.+++++++++++++++++.---.<----.<.<+++++++++++.>.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--.>>++++++.<.<+++.+++++++.--.--------.>.>-.----.--.>.---.<++.<<-.>>++++++++++.<.>-------.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
20:52:07 <Razor-X> What's with all the +'s at the end.
20:52:41 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++++[>++++>+++>++++++++>+++++<<<<-]>++++.>>>+.<++.-------------.++.++++++++.+++.>+++++++++++.<<+++.>>+++++.<<<++.>-------------.>>.+++++++++++++++++.---.<----.<.<+++++++++++.>.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--.>>++++++.<.<+++.+++++++.--.--------.>.>-.----.--.>.---.<++.<<-.>>++++++++++.<.>-------.<
20:52:45 <EgoBot> <GregorR-W> When I get home somebody r
20:53:06 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen Gregor! Update Hats!
20:53:18 <ihope> Oh, that's much better.
20:53:27 <EgoBot> 45 +++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>><<<<-]>+.>+. [270]
20:53:35 <EgoBot> 163 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>----.>>------.>----.++.<---.+++.<+++.-.<++++++++++++++.>>--.>---.---.<++++.>++++.<<.<-------------.>>>----.<.-.<+. [428]
20:53:43 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>----.>>------.>----.++.<---.+++.<+++.-.<++++++++++++++.>>--.>---.---.<++++.>++++.<<.<-------------.>>>----.<.-.<+.
20:53:44 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>----.>>------.>----.++.<---.+++.<+++.-.<++++++++++++++.>>--.>---.---.<++++.>++++.<<.<-------------.>>>----.<.-.<+.
20:54:13 <ihope> !daemon reminder bf +[,]+++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>----.>>------.>----.++.<---.+++.<+++.-.<++++++++++++++.>>--.>---.---.<++++.>++++.<<.<-------------.>>>----.<.-.<+.
20:54:25 <ihope> Just !ps d and !eof.
20:54:29 <Razor-X> Eh, why the loop? Don't you just want to trigger it once?
20:54:54 <pikhq> Razor-X: It'll trigger when an eof is sent.
20:55:17 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon reminder bf
20:55:41 <ihope> That won't do anything. :-)
20:56:15 <ihope> !daemon reminder bf ,+++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>----.>>------.>----.++.<---.+++.<+++.-.<++++++++++++++.>>--.>---.---.<++++.>++++.<<.<-------------.>>>----.<.-.<+.
20:56:19 <Razor-X> It only terminates the loop on EOF, eh?
20:56:22 <ihope> Now just don't !reminder.
20:58:05 <Razor-X> Wow. Octave takes longer than even mplayer to compile o_O.
20:58:41 <Razor-X> (And thusly the Linux kernel.)
20:58:43 <GregorR-W> Come sit in my cubicle and compile firefox on Solaris 8. Until you've done at least that compile, shut up.
20:59:00 <Razor-X> Well, it's been compiling for almost an hour now.
20:59:15 <GregorR-W> Firefox on Sol8 is a just-leave-it-running-over-night job.
20:59:19 <pikhq> I recommend DistCC. :p
20:59:29 <Razor-X> If someone wants to donate me the bandwidth.....
20:59:32 <GregorR-W> pikhq: I've tried to get it in :( :( :(
20:59:39 <Razor-X> *Makes girly eyes* Pweeeeez?
20:59:59 <pikhq> Try Firefox on a K-6. . . Got fed up after a few days.
21:00:11 <pikhq> Razor-X: Not at my home computer right now.
21:00:20 <Razor-X> So donate me its bandwidth!
21:00:40 <pikhq> Root on this box would be mightily pissed.
21:00:55 <pikhq> And, since he's a rather close friend of mine, I'd rather not piss him off. ;p
21:01:18 <Razor-X> (Note. I could do this on my own SSH shell, but I'm not for the same reason you're not :D.)
21:11:18 <Razor-X> How does Lambda Calculus use piecewise functions?
21:12:41 <ihope> Piecewise functions? Like, curried ones?
21:13:02 <Razor-X> Like, if x < 0 f(x) = 3, if x >= 0 f(x) = 4.
21:14:11 <ihope> Well, the Haskell form of that is "f x = if x < 0 then 3 else 4", and that's pretty much how it works in lambda calculus.
21:14:35 <Razor-X> So Lambda calculus has if?
21:14:59 <ihope> Well, you can think of boolean values as having "if" built in.
21:14:59 <Razor-X> I know Haskell (I've written some nifty big things, like an IRC bot), but it *is* a programming language after all.
21:15:09 <Razor-X> Oh. It uses the Church booleans?
21:15:25 <ihope> I guess. You can use any booleans you want, as long as they work :-)
21:18:19 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:18:29 <pikhq> Lambda calculus is also a programming language. . . Bit of a Turing tarpit, but most certaintly a programming language. ;)
21:19:43 -!- CXI has joined.
21:34:26 <Razor-X> ....And Octave is still compiling....
21:35:49 <Razor-X> OMG. It's *finally* compiling octave.cc.
21:36:19 <pikhq> What's it written in? ORK, compiled to Brainfuck, compiled to C, compiled to C++?!?
21:36:29 <Razor-X> It's written in C++ and FORTRAN.
21:36:31 <pikhq> (surely that's got to be inefficient)
21:36:56 <pikhq> FORTRAN. . . I think I'm going to go vomit for a bit.
21:37:08 <Razor-X> It's not that bad, y'know.
21:37:45 <Razor-X> Hey, I'm writing a BF compiler in INTERCAL.
21:38:09 <Razor-X> I could write a compiler too, I think it would be easier.
21:39:00 <Razor-X> ... Not very optimized, but....
21:50:27 -!- oerjanj has joined.
21:53:16 <GregorR-W> Oh I see, nobody else gets hi's :P
21:53:52 <oerjanj> you asked about dynamic arrays in INTERCAL, i made a bit of code for growing arrays in my Unlambda interpreter
21:53:57 <lament> he's just in it for the chicks
21:54:23 <oerjanj> ihope: did you see my question about (())?
21:54:30 <ihope> Growing arrays? Why not just use linked lists?
21:54:58 <oerjanj> because the array is the one implementing a heap
21:55:12 -!- CXI has changed nick to Ceiling_Seal.
21:56:46 <oerjanj> the main problem in growing is that resizing clears the array, as i recall
21:56:59 -!- Ceiling_Seal has changed nick to CXI.
21:57:04 <ihope> And yeah, I saw the question :-P
21:57:39 * ihope wonders why he thought of "ships and shoes and ceiling wax" upon seeing that nick change
21:59:08 * oerjanj suggests ze psychoanalysis for ihope
21:59:35 <ihope> You mean word association?
22:00:54 * ihope collects the million-dollar prize from oerjanj
22:01:56 <oerjanj> perhaps thematrixeatsyou can steal the name for RETURN, now...
22:03:11 <oerjanj> ah, the language list is now spotless
22:04:02 -!- oerjanj has quit ("Leaving").
22:41:17 -!- Asztal has joined.
22:43:38 <Asztal> When the contest page at http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest says Befunge, does it mean Befunge-93 or -98?
22:46:04 <GregorR-W> I didn't write the page, but I'd say -98
22:48:02 <ihope> They have to be polyglots. :-P
22:50:36 <Asztal> I don't know -98 since I never finished my interpreter for it :(
22:51:20 <GregorR-W> Finish your interpreter so I can add it to EgoBot :P
22:52:03 <Razor-X> I'm also going to add a clause about licensing.
22:52:39 <Razor-X> I will release the code, contestants. I hope that was implied by the rules.
22:52:54 <Razor-X> Hmmm. Do you all want it under the GPL or the BSD license?
22:53:19 <Razor-X> Or something more strict or less strict?
22:53:47 <pikhq> For this, I'd say BSD.
22:54:11 <Asztal> release the contestants' code, you mean?
22:54:19 <Razor-X> Yeah, the contestants code.
22:54:33 <Asztal> Public domain! Get rid of it I say :)
22:54:34 <pikhq> Well, BSD without ad clause.
22:54:47 <Razor-X> Are you all sure you want something as free as PD or MIT?
22:54:54 <GregorR-W> How about, it's up to the contestant, but if they say nothing it's assumed to be MIT?
22:55:48 * pikhq would prefer FSF-approved, but. . .
22:55:50 <Razor-X> Someone should release it under AFPL and then change it, for kicks :P.
22:56:16 <Asztal> MPL... (in tiny letters: Microsoft Permissive License)
22:57:26 <GregorR-W> pikhq: OMG ... normally I would've said FSF-approved ... this damn business is rotting my FS brain *sobbles*
22:59:05 <GregorR-W> Reason to hate the term "Open Source" #0: Big business loves it.
23:00:31 <pikhq> Reason #1: Morals > better development methedology.
23:00:59 <Razor-X> Flipside reason: It's Communism (TM).
23:01:20 <Razor-X> We all know that Americans are raised from birth to hate the word by assosciation.
23:01:31 <Razor-X> ``That's a bad dog, yes it is... COMMUNISM ... yes it is.''
23:01:32 <GregorR-W> Flipside reason #2: GOD HATES FAGS. Erm, Free Software. Whatever.
23:02:04 <GregorR-W> Flipside reason #3: If English is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for Texas. Open Source too.
23:02:48 <pikhq> Flipside reason #4: ESR supports guns. Guns are cool. ESR supports Open Source, too. Therefore, Open Source is too. QED.
23:03:11 <Razor-X> Ah. Awesome logical flaws.
23:03:37 <Razor-X> That's one my mom labors under, though.
23:04:05 * pikhq is convinced that man is one of the most illogical things on the face of the planet. . .
23:04:13 <Razor-X> ``All Muslims support Hezbollah. Hezbollah is evil. Therefore all muslims are evil.''
23:04:27 <Razor-X> Aside from the great axioms there.... :D.
23:06:16 <pikhq> My favorite axiom comes from #gnu. . .
23:06:24 <pikhq> ams is always right.
23:06:45 <Razor-X> The American Mathematical Society?
23:07:08 <pikhq> No, Alfred M. Szmdit.
23:07:09 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: Have you known the American Mathematical Society to ever be wrong?
23:07:47 <Razor-X> Because even if I thought they were logically wrong, I'd use Doublething to change that.
23:07:47 <pikhq> He's in charge of the gnu-system ATM.
23:08:21 <bsmntbombdood> the man page for clock():http://dark-code.bulix.org/mrh2e6-11342
23:08:48 <Razor-X> I should get started writing mah BF CPU.
23:08:59 <Razor-X> If anyone has an FPGA, 'twould be nice.
23:20:56 * ihope bends his deck of cards
23:21:01 <ihope> They're not shuffling.
23:24:26 <Razor-X> Wiki page updated for Licensing, specified the preferrable use of C-INTERCAL and Befunge-98, and and requested that the next participants are committee members.
23:25:04 <Asztal> Does my being based in GMT present a problem?
23:25:22 <GregorR-W> Nah, it's not a everybody-sit-down-at-once-and-write type contest.
23:25:28 <Razor-X> ``All times are posted in respect of UTC''.
23:25:58 <Razor-X> I've tried to make this as professional as I can.
23:27:13 <ihope> It's surprisingly easy to to double those short words ;-)
23:27:56 <Razor-X> The alt.lang.intercal post brought in some new contestants.
23:28:01 <Razor-X> I think we need to expand....
23:28:13 <Razor-X> Yes, it maybe a sea of stupidity, but bear with me!
23:28:33 <Asztal> I'm sure gamedev.net would be receptive to it
23:28:48 <Razor-X> Spread it wherever you can.
23:28:52 <Asztal> I can spam^inform them for you
23:29:09 <Razor-X> I do hope we get more committee members, since we only have 2 now.
23:29:16 <Razor-X> But we have a good 10/11 participants.
23:29:45 <Razor-X> It seems the languages of choice are INTERCAL, Befunge and Unlambda/LazyK.
23:30:09 <Eidolos> I bet Slashdot would frontpage it.
23:30:14 <pikhq> Going to need to pick up Befunge, then.
23:31:22 <Razor-X> Oh, I didn't say BF, did I?
23:31:37 <Eidolos> They frontpage the NetHack tournament announcements.
23:31:48 <Razor-X> That's why I think they'll do it to the Esolang competition.
23:32:06 <Razor-X> I'd do it, but they may have blacklisted me after my attempt to spread a paper against the Spread Firefox movement and Google.
23:32:11 <GregorR-W> Do not put the baby in the esoteric programming competition.
23:32:19 <Razor-X> Because it is Anti-Slashdot, of course :P.
23:33:02 <lament> why are unlambda and lazyk grouped together?
23:33:17 <Razor-X> Because every contestant who wanted Unlambda also wanted LazyK.
23:33:18 <ihope> Because they're the same. :-P
23:33:26 <Razor-X> And LazyK has Unlambda in it :P.
23:33:46 <lament> Your MOM has unlambda in it.
23:34:03 <Razor-X> Yes, my Master of Miracles does have Unlambda in it.
23:35:05 <ihope> "That's why I think they'll do her to the Esolang competition." <- hmm...
23:36:04 <Razor-X> Nah. Mah mom 'aint a Master Of Miracles.
23:36:11 <Razor-X> She's a Pain In The Arse, though.
23:38:55 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++++++<-]>.
23:39:11 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<-]>.
23:40:12 <pikhq> I bork it. Schweet.
23:40:30 <EgoBot> 27 ++++++++[>++++>>><<<<-]>+.. [26]
23:40:48 <GregorR-W> !bf_txtgen abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
23:40:49 <Razor-X> Wow. That's horribly ineffecient.
23:41:10 <EgoBot> 103 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>>++<<<<-]>-.+.+.+.+.>++++.<++.+.>+++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+. [910]
23:41:14 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: Heheh, it's a genetic algo. If I let it go more rounds, it would eventually clear that out.
23:41:18 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++[>++++>++++<<-]>.>.
23:41:21 <puzzlet> 정답! (EgoBot, 21621.000000 초)
23:41:35 <pikhq> !bf +[.,]++++++++[>++++<-]>+..
23:41:53 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++[>++++>++++<<-]>.>.
23:42:14 <GregorR-W> EgoBot answered a trivia question properly XD
23:42:33 <GregorR-W> <puzzlet> Right answer! (EgoBot, 21621.000000 seconds) <puzzlet> -1. Read afterwords: Hab
23:43:20 <pikhq> !i 1 Indeed I do.\n
23:44:53 <GregorR-W> !bf_txtgen wants you to stop harassing him.
23:45:18 <EgoBot> 224 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>>-.<+.>>++.++++++.-.>----.<<++.<++++++++++++++.>----.>>.<+.-----.>.<<--.+.>.<----.>>.<-------.-------.<<+++.>>.<<+..----------.>--.<--.>>>.<+++++++.+.<-.>>++++++++++++++. [652]
23:45:26 <pikhq> !i 1 /me loves being abused\n
23:45:29 <GregorR-W> !bf_txtgen ACTION wants you to stop harassing him.
23:45:30 <EgoBot> /me loves being abused
23:45:47 <Razor-X> Let's overload the memory!
23:45:56 <EgoBot> 283 +++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>-.++.<+++++++.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++.+++++++++++++.>---.-.>.<++++++.<+.>----.>.<-.<.>>.<-.+.<.+.>>.<<--------.-------.>--.<.>+..<++++++++.>>>.-------.<.>+.+.++++.<++++++++++++++. [983]
23:46:11 <GregorR-W> !bf +.++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>-.++.<+++++++.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++.+++++++++++++.>---.-.>.<++++++.<+.>----.>.<-.<.>>.<-.+.<.+.>>.<<--------.-------.>--.<.>+..<++++++++.>>>.-------.<.>+.+.++++.<++++++++++++++.
23:46:15 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION wants you to stop harassing him.
23:46:23 <pikhq> !i 1 ACTION is getting abused too much.\n
23:46:25 <ihope> !bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
23:46:27 <EgoBot> hACTION is getting abused too much.
23:46:34 <pikhq> !i 1 ACTION is getting abused too much.\n
23:46:36 <EgoBot> ACTION is getting abused too much.
23:46:41 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_e)(Emote)!"tests it here."(_e)e.?]}
23:47:01 <EgoBot> 115 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>>+....<+.....>.<.>......<..>.<.>...<.>.....<...>.<......>..<.>....<...>..<. [998]
23:47:19 -!- Asztal has quit ("Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast").
23:47:48 -!- EgoBot has left (?).
23:48:05 <Razor-X> I can't do that. I'm a girl.
23:48:07 <GregorR> You're flooding the channel anyway.
23:48:09 * ihope laughs like a maniac
23:48:13 <GregorR> Razor-X: That's what strap-ons are for.
23:48:39 <pikhq> !i 1 Lesbians don't have innocence.\n
23:48:42 <Razor-X> So uh... strap-on mode off.... I guess?
23:49:01 <GregorR> It'll be back in a moment, I'm reloading it to drop all your programs.
23:49:12 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:49:25 <Razor-X> !bf_txtgen Razor-X is sorry for raping you.
23:49:31 <ihope> Oh, did you get the reminder thingy?
23:49:31 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
23:49:33 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
23:49:39 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon reminder reload
23:49:39 <Razor-X> Awww. He forgot the reminder.
23:49:51 <EgoBot> 247 ++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++>++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>--.>>+.>++.-----------.+++.<<---.<++++++.>-------------.>++++++++.>+.<<.>>.<++++++.+++..>++++++.<<.<++++++++++++++.>>---.+++.<.>.<<-----.>>--.<<++++++++.>>--.<<--.>.>>.<+.>----.<<++++++++++++++. [993]
23:50:02 <Razor-X> !bf ++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++>++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>--.>>+.>++.-----------.+++.<<---.<++++++.>-------------.>++++++++.>+.<<.>>.<++++++.+++..>++++++.<<.<++++++++++++++.>>---.+++.<.>.<<-----.>>--.<<++++++++.>>--.<<--.>.>>.<+.>----.<<++++++++++++++.
23:50:05 <EgoBot> Razor-X is sorry for raping you.
23:50:09 <pikhq> !malbolge This isn't valid, but I don't care.
23:50:13 <EgoBot> invalid character in source file
23:50:27 <ihope> That's not the reminder...
23:50:28 <Razor-X> What happened to the reminder.... ?
23:50:49 <Razor-X> I think EgoBot is going through a Midlife Crisis.
23:51:06 <Razor-X> Egobot: It Works, Sometimes.
23:51:07 <GregorR> !daemon repeater glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)(_c)*(_i)l.?(_s)a.?=(_c)*(_o)o.?\]}
23:51:19 * Razor-X goes back to the Glass tutorial.
23:51:32 <GregorR-W> (must wait 15 minutes before reloading)
23:51:47 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: Feel free to ask me any questions, I am the world's foremost expert.
23:52:20 <Razor-X> Can you make a better tutorial so I don't have to look back at that document again? :P.
23:52:39 <Razor-X> !repeater Sometimes I like to eat mangoes.
23:52:46 <GregorR-W> Please don't fill up the repeater's buffer
23:53:07 <GregorR-W> No, it doesn't, it just keeps on adding.
23:53:13 <GregorR-W> That's how it's useful as a persistence test.
23:53:24 <ihope> !daemon repeater glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)(_c)*(_i)l.?(_s)a.?=(_c)*(_o)o.?\]}
23:53:29 * Razor-X goes back to the Glass tutorial.
23:53:36 <ihope> !undaemon repeater
23:53:38 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: The wiki page, or the IRC log?
23:53:57 <Razor-X> I suddenly got a very good idea. I'll remove all non-Glass related lines from it!
23:54:05 <Razor-X> That way, it won't take up a large amount of RAM!
23:54:18 <ihope> There, now you can use !repeater to spam me.
23:54:18 <Razor-X> I'm just so smart, I scare myself sometimes.
23:54:28 <Razor-X> !repeater I like eating banannas too.
23:54:44 <ihope> {EgoBot} I like eating banannas too.
23:55:16 <Razor-X> I got an idea earlier today for a Conlang.
23:55:26 <Razor-X> But, I shall save the fruitition for later.
23:55:38 <Razor-X> But I'm not as awesome as ihope yet :(.
23:56:10 <Razor-X> In the meantime, I'll continue on my INTERCAL->BF interpreter, some QBF programs, my Verilog BF CPU, and writing some documentation for the Esolangs I like.
23:56:21 <GregorR-W> !daemon repeater glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)*(_c)(_i)l.?=(_o)o.?\]}
23:56:48 <GregorR-W> Now it'll output the last line you entered when you enter a line.
23:56:49 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon repeater glass
23:56:51 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR-W: daemon repeater glass
23:57:03 <GregorR-W> !daemon repeater glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_x)<1>=(_c)""=/(_x)(_c)*(_c)(_i)l.?=(_o)o.?\]}
23:57:32 * ihope gets his own repeater
23:59:48 <ihope> !ihope_repeater :-(
00:42:31 <Razor-X> So does anyone want to write a Slashdot article to shamelessly advertise the contest?
00:42:42 <Razor-X> !ihope_repeater How about you?
00:43:21 <Eidolos> Razor-X: If you want to write it, I'll submit it with my account.
00:44:35 <Razor-X> On a seperate note: After 1.5 hours of compilation, Octave failed to compile.
00:45:19 <GregorR-W> I give it a 10% chance of getting in.
00:45:29 <Razor-X> I think I'll be a Slackware-wuss and just use a binary.
00:45:41 <Razor-X> Come on! It's useless and stupid, of course it'll get into Slashdot!
00:46:03 <Eidolos> Whitespace made the Slashdot frontpage (admittedly it was on April 1st.. :))
00:46:34 <ihope> We'll just have to delay it until April 1st, then.
00:47:03 -!- nooga has joined.
00:49:13 <EgoBot> 80 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>-.<---------.+++++.>+.<+.++++++++. [617]
00:49:51 <GregorR-W> Isn't too bad? That's actually quite good IMHO
00:50:02 <Razor-X> Good. It won't look too embarassing :D.
00:50:11 <nooga> can i get the src of bftextgen?
00:50:34 <Eidolos> Hmm. Is it small enough to paste here?
00:50:39 <ihope> nooga: textgen.java
00:50:46 <Razor-X> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
00:50:56 <Razor-X> My dear Microsoft Hating Gods!
00:51:07 * Razor-X prays to the Google for forgiveness.
00:51:21 <ihope> Which of your gods hate Google, and which do not?
00:51:28 <ihope> s/Google/Microsoft/
00:51:35 <GregorR-W> nooga: It's in the files archive under brainfuck/util (or something thereabouts)
00:51:39 <Razor-X> I am The Stereotypical Geek.
00:51:44 <GregorR-W> nooga: Also, it's in the files archive in the EgoBot source of course.
00:51:59 <nooga> i'm working at SADOL'a '(' function (calling external funcs) and BDSM2++ and LibSADOL and mod_SADOL for Apache2
00:52:00 <Razor-X> I have gods that Hate Microsoft, and Love Google and Firefox and all other things Geek Holy.
00:52:45 <ihope> That was 21 messages I got in a row from EgoBot.
00:52:53 <Razor-X> This year marks the first year of the 2006 Esolang Competition!!! If you're not familiar with Esolangs, they're programming languages with specific constraints. Many of them are turing tarpits, meaning they are Turing complete but only contain a minimum amount of operations (BrainFuck). Others use weird logic, operators the like you've never seen (or want to see), and line noise almost as bad as Perl (INTERCAL). Then again, some of them
00:52:53 <Razor-X> are just pure Hell (Malbolge). So ye fellow Slashdotters, come one and come all to test ye programming skills among the best of the best! You never know what you'll find over the (BrainFuck ahead) ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>-.<---------.+++++.>+.<+.++++++++. Join at http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest
00:53:21 <Razor-X> *annual Esolang Competition!!!
00:53:52 * Eidolos isn't so sure he likes the triple exclamation points.
00:54:00 <Razor-X> It's meant to appeal to Slashdotters.
00:54:06 <Eidolos> I also wouldn't include the "(BrainFuck ahead)"
00:54:14 <Razor-X> Yeah, I wasn't sure about that.
00:54:15 <nooga> only mad ppl put five exclamation marks
00:54:20 <Razor-X> I thought they used heavy doses of multiple punctuation?
00:54:26 <Razor-X> I never do myself, but yeah.
00:54:37 <Razor-X> I guess I underestimated the Slashdot community :P.
00:54:58 <Razor-X> Ok then, take out the (BrainFuck ahead) and the two extra `!'s.
00:55:18 <GregorR-W> I'm going to drop it to an 8% chance.
00:55:32 <Razor-X> What corrections would you like to see, GregorR-W?
00:55:41 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last):
00:55:48 <Eidolos> Also what's with the Olde Englishe?
00:55:56 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: None, it just won't get in.
00:56:15 <Razor-X> I knew I should've been listening to the RahXephon OP while writing it :(.
00:56:38 <Eidolos> And "You never know what you'll find over the <rainbow>"? x_x
00:57:16 <Razor-X> Does rainbow sound too unmanly for you?!?!
00:57:35 <Razor-X> Maybe there's a reason behind that!
00:57:41 <Eidolos> Also.. shouldn't you decide on a start date before posting on /.?
00:57:57 <Razor-X> Eidolos: I need 5-10 committee members.
00:57:58 <nooga> sadol isn't so evil
00:58:11 <Razor-X> Although I'm just hoping for 5 now.
00:58:17 <nooga> sadol is practically one of most comfortable esolangs
00:59:03 <Razor-X> Shh EgoBot, that's what I use in my BF interpreter in INTERCAL.
01:00:12 <Razor-X> I think it should be plainly obvious what that line does.
01:00:55 <Razor-X> See. I knew you'd understand.
01:01:06 <GregorR-W> !repeater Tell Razor-X what to do.
01:01:23 <Razor-X> !repeater Egobot shouldn't....
01:01:25 <EgoBot> Tell Razor-X what to do.
01:03:19 <ihope> !repeater This Repeater Thing Is
01:03:34 <EgoBot> This Repeater Thing Is
01:03:47 <Razor-X> !repeater Among other things, Egobot is
01:04:09 <GregorR-W> !repeater Many things are made out of wood.
01:04:12 <EgoBot> Among other things, Egobot is
01:04:54 <EgoBot> Many things are made out of wood.
01:05:05 <ihope> !repeater I can't read this:
01:05:31 <nooga> !sadol (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:05:34 <EgoBot> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:05:43 <nooga> the most beautiful quine
01:06:02 <Razor-X> (3:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:06:08 <Razor-X> !sadol (3:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:06:09 <EgoBot> (4:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:06:16 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
01:06:20 <EgoBot> {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
01:06:27 <Razor-X> Too... many... disfigured... smilies.....
01:06:41 <Razor-X> Methinks.... someone has been.... having too much fun.... with smilies.....
01:06:46 <ihope> !sadol {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
01:06:48 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unsupported character: ')' (index: 135, row: 1, col: 136)
01:06:57 <ihope> !glass (3:C",216!"9(4:C",216!C!C!"9(4:C",216!C!C
01:07:35 <EgoBot> 104 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>----.>++++++..>-----.>++.<<---.+++++++++.>-.++++++++.>+. [140]
01:07:39 <nooga> but nobody of you has a REVERSED QUINE!
01:08:01 <nooga> !sadol (7:C",228!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(:R",228(7:C",2289"!R!:R",2287"!C!RR!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(
01:08:04 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 98, row: 1, col: 99)
01:08:06 <Razor-X> !glass You're a really buggy bot, OK?
01:08:09 <nooga> !sadol (7:C",228!R!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(:R",228(7:C",2289"!R!:R",2287"!C!RR!C!"7822,"R:!R!"9822,"C:7(
01:08:12 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 98, row: 1, col: 99)
01:08:23 <Razor-X> Yay. Such an obedient bot.
01:08:31 <Eidolos> The <a href="http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest">2006 Esolang Competition</a> is about to begin! If you're not familiar with Esolangs, they're esoteric programming languages created with a specific set of constraints yet still powerful enough to be useful -- most are even Turing complete. Some minimalize the instruction set (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck">brainfuck</a>), some aim to break a commonl
01:08:31 <Eidolos> y-held idea about coding (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befunge">Befunge</a>), some have line noise even worse than Perl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercal), and some are just pure Hell (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge">Malbolge</a>). The goal is to write a program in an esoteric language that completes some currently unannounced task. +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>----.>++++++..>-----.
01:08:32 <Eidolos> >++.<<---.+++++++++.>-.++++++++.>+.
01:09:01 <Razor-X> I said noise *almost as bad as Perl*.
01:09:22 <Eidolos> I know. I read it. I'm a Perl enthusiast, sorry.
01:09:37 <Razor-X> Give me Liberty or give me Death!
01:09:38 <ihope> "Think you're a leet coder? Think again: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/2006_Esolang_Contest"
01:09:43 <Razor-X> !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>----.>++++++..>-----.>++.<<---.+++++++++.>-.++++++++.>+.
01:09:53 <nooga> even Larry Wall said that perl sometimes looks like hell
01:10:08 <ihope> Perl sometimes looks like Malbolge?
01:10:18 <Razor-X> Here's one line from INTERCAL:
01:10:33 <Razor-X> (From a program that outputs given input.)
01:10:42 <Razor-X> (20)PLEASE RESUME '?.1$#256'~'#256$#256'
01:10:52 <Razor-X> I think it's more readable than Perl *shrug*.
01:11:31 <GregorR-W> ORK is more readable than either :P
01:11:45 <Eidolos> I wrote a nice (but very basic) quine in Perl the other night: http://sartak.katron.org/quine.pl.txt
01:11:53 <ihope> ORK is just a subset of English, sheesh.
01:12:04 <Razor-X> That's what made me shudder.
01:13:52 <ihope> You just need to make a subset of English using only the word "geranium".
01:14:27 <GregorR-W> But the only sentence you can form with the word "geranium" is "Geranium."
01:14:35 <GregorR-W> Or I guess, "Geranium?" and "Geranium!"
01:14:50 <Razor-X> For those of you that can't read the first line, it says to take first take the variable .3 and take all the bits in the positions where the number 15 corresponds to 1's, and pack those bits to the left. (Keep this in a temporary variable in your brain). Now take the number 256 and interleave its bits with the bits for 256. (Keep this in another temporary variable.) Now take take out the bits from the first temporary variable where the
01:14:50 <Razor-X> second variable has 1 in its value, pack those to the left (remembering to pad with 0) and store this into the variable .3 .
01:15:09 <ihope> None of those are proper sentences
01:15:28 <Razor-X> Like I said, perfectly readable.
01:15:39 <GregorR-W> ihope: They are if they're a response to a question.
01:15:55 <ihope> But they're still not really complete.
01:16:42 <Razor-X> (Nobody caught my mistake? Shame.)
01:16:57 <Razor-X> What do you mean? It's perfectly intuitive.
01:17:21 <Eidolos> You and I both know it's not. Now stop it, you're embarrassing yourself!
01:17:24 <Razor-X> But yeah, those are the only two binary operators INTERCAL has.
01:18:01 <ihope> !ihope_repeater What does this do?
01:18:44 <nooga> Razor-X: throw intercal away, create ur own lang
01:19:00 <Razor-X> I have an idea for one though.
01:19:24 <Razor-X> I won't give away the basis! Because then ihope will steal the love out of it and add another language to his already large repertoire!
01:19:49 <Razor-X> So until I can build my BF machine in Verilog, it 'aint happenin'!
01:20:05 <Razor-X> (Note: I said the same thing about my Podcast client in Haskell.)
01:20:08 <Eidolos> I've been toying with making my own esolang.. you know how Perl has context? Well the esolang would be all about context.. and it'd just be called "the language" (you'd have to know by context that it's this particular language)
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01:20:45 <ihope> Eidolos: it would be what?
01:20:48 <ihope> Razor-X: what language?
01:21:41 <ihope> So we'd have no global variables and no global constants?
01:21:43 <Razor-X> Eidolos: Will ye post it on Slashdot now?
01:22:11 <Eidolos> ihope: I dunno, I haven't thought much about it except what I just shared. :)
01:22:52 <ihope> Okay, nothing global. No global variables (whether or not they're variable), no global constructs...
01:23:22 <ihope> [\], basically? :-P
01:24:36 <Razor-X> It looks like a BF variant.
01:25:05 <ihope> [ adds syntax, \ escapes something, and ] removes syntax.
01:25:46 <ihope> The most "unsafe" language ever: syntax checking must be done at runtime :-)
01:26:39 <nooga> the thing that makes me rotfl is 'unsafe' keyword in C#
01:27:35 <nooga> switches to 'unmanaged' mode - where you can use almost normal pointers
01:27:55 <nooga> whole C and C++ must be hella unsafe ;d
01:28:14 <nooga> C must be hazardous then
01:29:40 <Razor-X> C# unsafe means they take you out of a carseat and into a booster seat.
01:29:55 <Razor-X> C is like getting kidnapped by a pedophile.
01:31:37 <Razor-X> Yeah, maybe I'm not that innocent after all.... *makes girly eyes*.....
01:32:33 <nooga> having hope that....
01:32:46 <nooga> ...pedophile won't get you ;f
01:32:47 <Razor-X> I don't *like* coding C, but....
01:34:41 <Razor-X> Uh.... I'm sorry for using that mental image....
01:35:02 <nooga> i'm having third glass of vine this night
01:35:19 <nooga> so excuse me if i say sth stupid ;p
01:36:57 <Razor-X> How would you know if Glass gives you an error?
01:37:50 <Razor-X> I think GregorR needs to write in error messages.
01:39:15 <Razor-X> !glass Tell your master you need error messages.
01:39:40 <nooga> !sadol has good error reporting
01:40:03 <nooga> that was correct program
01:40:22 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 2, row: 1, col: 3)
01:41:36 <nooga> i'm trying to think about incorrect type case
01:42:24 <EgoBot> BDSM: Optimizing: Cannot extract element from integer with '#' on index: 0 - invalid type (index: 0, row: 1, col: 1)
01:43:12 <Razor-X> Does it use every letter of the alphabet?
01:43:29 * Razor-X is too lazy to go to the Wiki.
01:43:38 <nooga> yes, ID's are one char
01:43:52 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 16, row: 1, col: 17)
01:44:05 <nooga> . is predefined function
01:44:26 <nooga> !sadol Enter the Glass. 0
01:45:09 <nooga> !sadol ~H0!"1H~i0!"
01:45:12 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index: 12, row: 1, col: 13)
01:45:21 <nooga> !sadol ~H0!"1H~i0!"1i Hi
01:45:37 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_g)O!"Hello, World!"(_g)o.?]}
01:46:54 <nooga> http://esolangs.org/wiki/SADOL
01:47:07 <Razor-X> It's a huge definition :P.
01:47:27 <Razor-X> One can only learn so many languages at one time.
01:49:07 <Razor-X> Something tells me GregorR gave Lesson #x in secret.
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01:51:00 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
01:51:02 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
01:52:15 <Razor-X> Oh. Glass clicks now, I think.
01:53:08 <Razor-X> {M[m(_b)O!"My name is Paul"(_b)o?]}
01:53:13 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_b)O!"My name is Paul"(_b)o?]}
01:53:49 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_b)O!"My name is Paul"(_b)o.?]}
01:55:12 <Razor-X> {M[m(_(Blah))O!"This is not full of disfigured smilies"(_(Blah))o.?]}
01:55:39 <Razor-X> So much for parentheses holding in more than one letter.
01:55:56 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_(Blah))O!"This is not full of disfigured smilies"(_(Blah))o.?]}
01:55:58 <EgoBot> This is not full of disfigured smilies
01:58:48 <nooga> o.P < this one has broken eye
01:59:43 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_b)I!(_r)O!(_b)l.?(_r)o.?]}
01:59:59 <oerjanj> !unlambda ``.S``.c.r.a```.m.b.l.`e.d
02:00:57 <Razor-X> Now, to make it look like defiling smilies....
02:01:44 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(>)I!(<)O!(>)l.?(<)o.?]}
02:03:18 <nooga> lisp hackers r odd
02:04:10 * Razor-X decides to make a complex Glass program.
02:04:18 <nooga> that guys from #lisp
02:04:24 <EgoBot> ./unlambda/unlambda: file ./tmp/egobot.CoEwgc: parse error
02:05:35 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)I!(_<)O!(_>)l.?(_<)o.?]}
02:06:00 <Razor-X> Defiled smilies For The Win!
02:08:55 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)o.?]}
02:09:08 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.5
02:09:58 <Razor-X> Both look appealing to me.
02:10:10 <Razor-X> SADOL screams ``I'm too 1337 for you''.
02:10:35 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)on.?]}
02:10:46 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.
02:13:25 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m_(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:13:36 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.0
02:17:55 <nooga> i need to play hl2
02:18:35 <nooga> and watch new mimic engine applied to Alyx's face in action ;D
02:21:50 <Razor-X> I feel like playing Morrowind.
02:22:13 <Razor-X> Where's GregorR when you need him?
02:23:52 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_i)c.?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:24:04 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.0
02:24:31 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?<5><7>(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:24:34 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.12
02:24:42 <Razor-X> Ok. So you can't get input to add.
02:24:49 <Razor-X> Pfft. What a lame language.
02:27:44 <oerjanj> you need to use S.sn, I think.
02:28:03 <nooga> my friend is a trainee in Micro$oft
02:28:25 <nooga> he says that yesterday he saw one person in 'Google' t-shitr at the gym
02:28:53 <nooga> and he didn't beat this person only because she was a woman
02:30:09 <Razor-X> Thanks for the knowledge that you'd beat my face out.
02:30:14 <oerjanj> !glass {M[m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_s)S!"Please input two numbers to add."(_o)o.?(_i)c.?(_s)(sn).?(_i)c.?(_s)(sn).?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
02:30:42 <EgoBot> Please input two numbers to add.107
02:30:47 <Razor-X> .......................................................
02:31:03 <Razor-X> I must congratulate GregorR.
02:31:17 <oerjanj> it's correct if you consider conversion from ascii
02:31:24 <Razor-X> nooga: Oh. Your friend there.
02:31:34 <nooga> i hate M$ personally
02:31:34 <Razor-X> oerjanj: Oh, it adds the ASCII numbers? How... helpful....
02:32:21 <oerjanj> well, S.sn converts using ascii
02:32:56 <Razor-X> I think he needs a new input built-in function.
02:34:20 <oerjanj> i'm sure it's not too hard to write a class method for reading numbers
02:35:26 <oerjanj> well, i meant to write it in glass, of course...
02:39:24 <Razor-X> I was about to use scanf in C++ code :P.
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02:46:07 <Razor-X> Hmmmm. I haven't looked at all the code, so I have no idea if this will work.
02:48:36 <nooga> laptops in Poland r hella expensive
02:48:51 <nooga> 2x more expensive than in US
02:49:55 <nooga> what are prices or hardware in US?
02:50:31 <nooga> take a laptop with 1.7 - 2.0 GHz Intel, 512MB RAM and good graphics
02:50:44 <nooga> something about $1000?
02:51:34 <nooga> heh (i'm slightly drunken) ;/
02:55:50 <nooga> i was considering buying a laptop in US
02:57:46 <nooga> is it a good idea?
03:12:39 <ihope> Wikipedia is a better dictionary than many other dictionaries. This is quite amazing, seeing as how it is not a dictionary.
03:13:30 <nooga> forget about my laptop
03:17:32 <GregorR> nooga: I'd say just a laptop mobo+CPU at 1.7-2.0 GHz would be upwards of $1500
03:17:49 <GregorR> You're not going to get a laptop like that for less than $3.5 or $4 thousand.
03:18:03 <ihope> Nah, Wiktionary doesn't have the word "galoot" in it.
03:20:15 <nooga> a friend of mine bought one with 1.8GHz proc. 1GB RAM, and 128MB graphics card for something about $1000
03:20:44 <GregorR> Dood, that was black-market.
03:21:04 <GregorR> You couldn't possibly get a 1.8GHz for less than $3k
03:21:26 <nooga> they cost something about 3kPLN here
03:21:36 <GregorR> Well then they cost much less there.
03:21:47 <GregorR> OK, so I'm blatantly lying :P
03:22:24 <nooga> he says it's HP bought in Circuit City in Redmond
03:23:01 <GregorR> Yeah, that's probably a reasonable price.
03:24:13 <GregorR> <-- was lying about the price :-P
03:28:05 <nooga> so, you'll buy me a lap, send it to me and then i'll send you money :D
03:28:27 <GregorR> How about you send me triple the money, then I buy me two laptops.
03:29:24 <nooga> i'll consider that
03:37:26 * GregorR needs to write another esolang.
03:37:35 * GregorR has no premise, however :P
03:38:15 <ihope> Runtime syntax stuff.
03:38:49 <ihope> Make sure you can add all the syntax you want, and then remove all the syntax you don't want.
03:39:05 <GregorR> Actually, I'm going to make a QBF-deriv.
03:46:19 <nooga> Newton by Square Metre => Pascal ;d
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04:02:33 <GregorR> lament, ihope: Would you consider it legit to have a 'entangle' command?
04:02:38 <Razor-X> I.n now takes input and stores it as a number using a very dangerous scanf command.
04:02:57 <GregorR> Scanf is only dangerous for %s
04:03:12 <Razor-X> It's still very dangerous *whooo* *whoo*.
04:03:34 <GregorR> lament, ihope: Can you entangle two qubits as is in QBF?
04:03:37 <Razor-X> I wanted to do my classic ask-user-for-two-numbers-to-add program.
04:03:53 <Razor-X> And since Glass already has so many useful builtins, I thought this would be a nifty one.
04:05:05 <Razor-X> {M[m(_o)O!(_i)I!(_a)A!"Please input two numbers to add\n"(_o)o.?(_i)n.?(_i)n.?(_a)a.?(_o)(on).?"\n"(_o)(o).?]}
04:05:40 <Razor-X> Note the creative instance naming scheme.
04:06:31 <Razor-X> Is it going against the spirit of Glass?
04:07:08 <GregorR> Why would you think it's going against the spirit of Glass?
04:07:22 <Razor-X> Because if Glass was a Turing tarpit, you might want to make it difficult.
04:07:31 <Razor-X> But I didn't think it was because it already has nice builtins.
04:07:38 <GregorR> It's not really a turing tarpit, it's more of an experiment.
04:07:44 <GregorR> An experiment that went way too right :P
04:08:23 <Razor-X> I think it's a good educational tool for the OO uninitiated (or the raving angry C programmers at being brought into this century).
04:09:02 <GregorR> Well, if it was less rough I'd agree ...
04:09:12 <Razor-X> Well, you can name things with parentheses.
04:09:33 <GregorR> Yeah, I guess a really savvy Glass programmer could make some very non-esoteric things in it :)
04:09:48 <Razor-X> I want to make a text adventure! *Blows trumpet in the background*.
04:10:01 <GregorR> Feel free, make sure to make it a !daemon too :P
04:10:15 <GregorR> lament, ihope: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Expandable_Quantum_Brainfuck
04:10:27 <Razor-X> ``Do you want beer (y or n)?'' `y' ``You die. The end''.
04:11:30 <Razor-X> Now, how to use this ``patch'' thingamajigger....
04:12:00 <GregorR> What are you trying to patch?
04:12:30 <Razor-X> While I just added in 7 lines... I thought you may want the patch I made :P.
04:12:45 <GregorR> If you want to make a patch, you're not using the right program ;)
04:12:56 <GregorR> diff -ruN glass-orig/ glass-new/ > glass.diff
04:13:06 <Razor-X> (I've only programmed for myself, hehe.)
04:13:08 <GregorR> diff makes patches that patch installs.
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04:15:16 <GregorR> It's not that old, just a bit over a year.
04:15:56 <Razor-X> I thought it was like something you made a few weeks ago.
04:16:26 <Razor-X> http://www.sosdg.org/~razorx/builtins.diff
04:16:41 <Razor-X> Just a diff I took of the two builtins.cc files.
04:17:55 * GregorR tries to remember whether he's written an atoi ...
04:18:06 <GregorR> If I've already written one, may as well use that instead of adding a new builtin :P
04:18:39 <Razor-X> S.n converts the character to its ASCII value.
04:18:51 <Razor-X> (If that's what you're thinking of.)
04:19:57 <GregorR> No, I was thinking something that you could take an input'd string and turn it into a number (not the ASCII value, the logical/"human" value)
04:20:10 <Razor-X> I wish I knew about that builtin, heh.
04:20:29 <Razor-X> You possibly could with a whole bunch of extra Glass code, but eh.
04:21:28 * GregorR is trying to find a gate that causes entanglement >_O
04:21:32 <GregorR> I don't just want to invent one ...
04:21:55 <Razor-X> Does EgoBot have the new I.n now?
04:22:24 <GregorR> No, doing too many things to patch it right now.
04:25:20 <lament> GregorR: it's too complicated!
04:26:44 <GregorR> As in, I know you were referring to my language.
04:26:48 <GregorR> I don't agree that it's too complicated.
04:28:03 <GregorR> I guess any controlled gate where the state of the control qubit isn't 1/0 would cause entanglement.
04:29:12 <Razor-X> Why don't you make a full blown-out quantum language?
04:29:15 <lament> GregorR: dividing the qubits into "control" and "non-control" is artificial and silly.
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04:29:48 <GregorR> ... the two pointers are on the same tape.
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04:30:31 <GregorR> It's just like in QBF, except that it doesn't always use "the qubit to the right"
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04:38:09 <GregorR> According to wikipedia, -(@,0.927295218001612)+(!,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0) gives you an instant universal quantum machine.
04:38:24 <GregorR> (That is, all quantum gates can somehow be reduced to those two ... don't ask me how.
04:39:10 <GregorR> lament stopped talking >_>
04:55:51 <Razor-X> Does it take input? (Must go out now).
04:59:35 <GregorR> GlassBot probably doesn't work, I'm not sure if I finished it (it was preempted by EgoBot)
05:46:43 <Eidolos> 2006-07-28 00:10:18 2006 Esolang Competition (Developers,Programming) (pending)
05:46:47 * Eidolos twiddles his thumbs impatiently.
05:49:03 <Razor-X> How long does ``pending'' take?
05:50:31 <Eidolos> No idea, this is my first submission.
05:51:12 <Razor-X> Imaginary... number... math *twitch twitch*....
05:51:20 <Razor-X> I liked normal QBF better :P.
05:52:15 <Razor-X> EQBF is t3h same thing, obviously, and more.
05:54:18 <GregorR> EQBF is extended to be "quantum-complete"
05:54:32 <GregorR> That is, you can achieve any quantum state with EQBF, but not with QBF
05:54:50 <Razor-X> Are you sure you can't with QBF?
05:55:23 <Razor-X> Well then, I guess I have to do imaginary number math >_>.
05:57:39 <Razor-X> I think the Wiki page for Glass can become a *lot* simpler if you add in a BNF.
06:03:44 <Razor-X> How do you define arguments to a Glass function?
06:04:44 <GregorR> They're only defined by convention.
06:04:47 <Razor-X> Ok, that's what I thought.
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06:06:06 <oerjanj> what do you mean simpler? I did a lot to try and make it readable
06:06:09 <Razor-X> Is there any way to flip positions in the stack?
06:06:47 <oerjanj> your suggestion about using BNF, read it in the log
06:07:42 <Razor-X> Wait... did you say anything after I said that suggestion?
06:08:34 <Razor-X> I mean, I think it would be nice with a BNF, IMO.
06:08:54 <Razor-X> Easier to get a grasp for the language. I still wouldn't be able to understand it without the original log tutorial.
06:09:15 <lament> wow, somebody actually reads los
06:10:53 <oerjanj> btw to flip stack positions, i think you have to save them in variables.
06:11:44 <Razor-X> That's what I was thinking.
06:13:06 <lament> oerjanj: why not just stay here
06:13:06 <oerjanj> it's the only way to keep the top one while you pop the bottom one
06:13:24 <lament> oerjanj: it's not fun to insult someone's mom when they're away
06:13:28 <lament> even if they read the logs
06:14:57 <Razor-X> How do you use variables in Glass?
06:34:12 <Razor-X> Good job misspelling ``taught'' on the Wiki page :P.
06:34:19 <Razor-X> Is there any way to show how the stack looks at the end of the program?
06:36:10 <oerjanj> i am sure you could write a pop and print loop...
06:36:42 <Razor-X> Maybe it's time to make a Debug built-in.
06:37:48 <oerjanj> hm, there does not seem to be a way to detect an empty stack
06:54:34 <Razor-X> Yeah, I saw the Debug builtin.
06:54:38 <Razor-X> Obviously undocumented though :P.
06:54:50 <GregorR> Debugging is only for people who read the Glass code :P
06:55:38 <Razor-X> {L[l(_p),=(_o)O!(_s)S!"!bf_txtgen "(_p)*(_s)a.?(_o)o.?]}{M[m(_l)L!(_o)O!"Glass"(_l)l.?(_o)o.?(_o)o.?]}
06:55:44 <Razor-X> !glass {L[l(_p),=(_o)O!(_s)S!"!bf_txtgen "(_p)*(_s)a.?(_o)o.?]}{M[m(_l)L!(_o)O!"Glass"(_l)l.?(_o)o.?(_o)o.?]}
06:55:58 <Razor-X> Aw man. It doesen't interpret its own commands :(.
06:56:53 <GregorR> Anybody else have any input on EQBF?
06:56:56 <Razor-X> Did you merge my ``patch'' in?
06:58:25 <GregorR> Anybody else have any input on EQBF? :P
06:58:38 <Razor-X> It uses imaginary numbers!!! Evil!!!!
06:59:20 <GregorR> Well ... that's sort of part of the whole idea of quantum mechanics :P
06:59:39 <Razor-X> But it makes it harder :P.
07:00:56 <oerjanj> I have this feeling that input should use CNOT, as if it copied from an input tape
07:02:19 <oerjanj> and then output could be conceptually just CNOTing onto an output tape initially zeroed
07:02:34 <GregorR> The only noticeable difference would be that, if you had 0, your input wouldn't work, no?
07:02:51 * GregorR needs to look at the CNOT matrix again :P
07:04:36 <oerjanj> it should be the same as xoring the input with the qubit you store in
07:04:45 <GregorR> Right, if you use the input as the control, and have a 0 as the qubit you're pointing at, and it CNOTs, then you'll get the input copied. However, if you have a 1, you'll always get a 0.
07:05:01 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_i)I(_A)a"Please enter two numbers to add"(_o)o.?(_i)n.?(_i)n.?(_a)a.?(_o).?]}
07:05:03 <EgoBot> Please enter two numbers to add
07:05:58 <Razor-X> ................ Alrighty now :D.
07:07:05 <oerjanj> i would have imagined that if you had a 1, you would get the inverse of the input
07:09:07 <oerjanj> one advantage of this is that you don't need to assume inputs are classical bits
07:09:42 <GregorR> And their state would be copied.
07:10:21 <oerjanj> i think that observation could conceptually be thought of as output to a "control" tape
07:11:15 <GregorR> OK, I finally looked at the CNOT right.
07:11:39 <GregorR> If you use the input as a control, and you have a 0, input will be copied. Otherwise, the inverse of input will be copied.
07:13:40 <GregorR> And for output, if you use your bit as a control and assume that the output tape is 0, your qubit will be copied.
07:14:02 <GregorR> Therefore, if output is observed, your qubit will be stuck.
07:15:07 <oerjanj> or it might not be observed but instead piped to another program
07:15:27 <GregorR> In which case, your qubit would still not be stuck.
07:15:41 <GregorR> But indeed, you would have entangled qubits between two programs >: )
07:20:18 <GregorR> Committed I/O changes to the wiki
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07:50:59 <Razor-X> Do you mind if I add binary functions to Glass at some later time indefinite?
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14:35:42 <GregorR> I switched to a different pseudoterminal and now my mouse doesn't work ...
14:50:17 <nooga> http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=-3291785230023779795&q=firefox
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16:09:56 <GregorR-W> nooga: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Expandable_Quantum_Brainfuck
16:12:46 <nooga> too much werid words
16:13:32 <nooga> I don't think I understandt
16:18:16 <Eidolos> 2006-07-28 00:10:18 2006 Esolang Competition (Developers,Programming) (rejected)
16:18:51 <Razor-X> It all seems equally useless to me on Slashdot.
16:19:05 <Razor-X> Like that magic fuel that supposedly broke the quantum laws, wooo.....
16:19:19 <Razor-X> I want my magic fuel, the article promised me it in a year, one year ago :(.
16:20:21 <Razor-X> 80% of the articles are untrue or farfetched speculation.
16:20:22 <nooga> go to #lisp and say thet you're using vim ;d
16:20:42 <Razor-X> THAT'S LIKE INSULTING GOOGLE!!!!!
16:20:45 <GregorR-W> OMG HOW DID YOU EVER FIND THAT OUT?!?!?!
16:21:03 <GregorR-W> Me, three years ago: "OK, I'm done with Slashdot, Slashdot sucks"
16:21:06 <nooga> i don't even visit /.
16:21:13 <Razor-X> That was me one year ago :P.
16:21:18 <Razor-X> After a few months of Slashdot.
16:21:24 <Razor-X> Hold on. I must flush me logs.
16:21:27 -!- Razor-X has left (?).
16:21:33 <GregorR-W> Me, yesterday: 06.07.27:16:45:19 <GregorR-W> I give it a 10% chance of getting in.
16:21:40 -!- Razor-X has joined.
16:21:46 <GregorR-W> 06.07.27:16:55:18 <GregorR-W> I'm going to drop it to an 8% chance.
16:21:55 <GregorR-W> I should've dropped it to a 0% chance.
16:22:25 <GregorR-W> You know, if they'd just be honest and call it LispOS instead of EMACS, I wouldn't hate it so much.
16:22:25 <nooga> Razor-X: did u play that cool adventure game from emacs?
16:22:44 <GregorR-W> They keep pretending like it's a text editor.
16:22:55 <GregorR-W> When it isn't, it's an operating system.
16:23:02 <GregorR-W> That just so happens to run on top of other operating systems.
16:23:03 <Razor-X> Then Firefox must be another operating system :P.
16:23:12 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: A few more extensions, and yeah :P
16:23:30 <Razor-X> I'm running ERC on LispOS.
16:23:49 <nooga> i'm running mirc on WinXP Pro ;d
16:24:11 <nooga> because i currently use my friend's HP laptop
16:24:21 <nooga> with windoze preinstalled
16:24:23 <Razor-X> I pity the soul that cannot use SSH.
16:24:42 <nooga> oh, good idea, i can get rid of that win and install linux
16:24:50 <nooga> bbl -> installing linux
16:25:02 -!- nooga has left (?).
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16:26:08 <GregorR-W> He's about to log in under the nick 'knoppix' :P
16:26:41 <GregorR-W> nooga: I wasn't talking about installing it on the hard disk.
16:27:20 <GregorR-W> Linux version 2.6.5-7.151-smp (geeko@buildhost) (gcc version 3.3.3 (SuSE Linux)) #1 SMP Fri Mar 18 11:31:21 UTC 2005
16:28:40 <nooga> but i can install cygwin ;>
16:28:50 <GregorR-W> Windows version NT6.3.2.4.5.3.8.23.4r3257412.574483.hello.world.321432153415478902543 (windozerulez@microsoft.com) (VS version .NET (Windows XP)) #1 SMP Fri Mar 18 11:31:21 UTC 2005
16:35:04 <pikhq> You're under. . . Windows? Poor guy.
16:35:43 <nooga> i'm making backups
16:35:57 <nooga> and preparring to install suse 10.1
16:35:58 <GregorR-W> Dood, Windows rawx, wave of the fewtour
16:36:19 <nooga> a colleague of mine works on Vista ;d
16:37:15 <ihope_> Hmm... EQBF just doesn't seem BF enough.
16:37:40 <GregorR-W> ihope_: Can you think of a way to allow arbitrary gates without disallowing parameters?
16:37:53 <GregorR-W> ihope_: Can you think of a way to allow arbitrary gates while disallowing parameters?
16:38:10 <GregorR-W> ===GregorR-W <n=chatzill@jffwprtest.jf.intel.com> “Gregor Richards”
16:38:26 <ihope_> GregorR-W: yes and no :-P
16:38:27 <nooga> and my host is a perl program
16:38:50 <nooga> 213-238-102-205.adsl.inetia.pl
16:46:35 <Razor-X> No wonder SADOL looks like it does :P.
16:51:19 <fizzie> [2005-05-16 22:57:15] < fizzie> Perl is pretty.
16:53:25 <Razor-X> INTERCAL is cleaner than Perl.
16:54:09 <fizzie> [2005-05-04 23:16:35] < fizzie> They aren't very readable, though. One of my perl scripts say $rest =~ /^((?:(?:$ex_nt|$ex_t|$ex_e)(?:\s+|$|(?=\|)))*)\s*(?:\||$)\s*(.*)$/ and it's not immediately obvious what that does.
16:54:41 <pikhq> That's not beautiful.
16:55:05 <nooga> larry wall is my hero
16:55:07 <pikhq> There is such a thing as Beauty.
16:55:33 <fizzie> [2006-03-14 01:59:49] < fizzie> To fill the daily Perl quota - functional programming in Perl: perl -e 'print &{&{sub { my $f = shift; return &$f($f); }}(sub { my $f = shift; return sub { my $n = shift; return 1 if $n < 2; return &{&$f($f)}($n-1) + &{&$f($f)}($n-2); }; })}(8), "\n";'
16:55:34 <pikhq> A Beauty can be_ORK.
16:55:45 <pikhq> A Beauty can not_be_Perl.
16:55:56 <Razor-X> I sometimes wonder what facet of the devil allowed Larry Wall to be a linguist.
16:55:58 <pikhq> When a Beauty is to be_ORK:
16:56:10 <pikhq> There is a linguist called Gregor.
16:56:14 <nooga> i want to be a linguist
16:56:19 <pikhq> s/linguist/scribe/
16:56:36 <pikhq> Gregor is to write "ORK is beautiful."
16:56:43 <Razor-X> After seeing Perl, I wonder what Larry Wall has in mind as his perfect language....
16:56:49 <pikhq> When a Beauty is to not_be_Perl:
16:56:57 <pikhq> There is a scribe called Larry.
16:57:07 <pikhq> Larry is to write "Perl is fugly.".
16:57:26 <pikhq> Fucking + ugly = fugly.
16:58:07 <pikhq> I'm a Tcler when being serious.
16:58:08 <Razor-X> (Let the flames begin, Pythoners.)
16:58:31 <GregorR-W> Ruby == object oriented paradigm + worst aspects of Perl
16:58:36 <nooga> pythoners r indentation fascists ;p
16:58:48 <GregorR-W> <-- Hates every scripting language out today.
16:59:01 <Razor-X> Lua's the only one I really hate.
16:59:08 <nooga> Ruby > Perl+Python
16:59:23 <ihope_> Razor-X: then how do you write Enigma levels?
16:59:26 <Razor-X> Lua makes me puke, even though it's used as an extension language so darn often.
16:59:28 <pikhq> set Gregor [hatred "scripting languages"]
16:59:37 <nooga> lua is functional ;d
16:59:54 <Razor-X> Lua looks like some god-awful marriage between Ruby and PHP.
17:00:07 <GregorR-W> I need a convertor that takes a language very much like Python and converts it into Python (and vice versa). The only difference being brackets.
17:00:44 <Razor-X> You can use parentheses in Python.
17:00:58 <ihope_> Just use a Python thing that uses a preprocessor, and turn the preprocessor off :-)
17:01:30 * pikhq ain't happy until it's Tcl syntax or sexps.
17:01:35 <Razor-X> GregorR-W: Hmmm? Check Google >>>
17:01:44 <Razor-X> I've heard it's possible, although done rarely :P.
17:02:45 <ihope_> Like Haskell's do {this; that <- these; return those}?
17:02:46 <Razor-X> I'm not sure about the specifics, I'm just talking about wars I've seen between Pythoners and other-language-ers.
17:03:06 <Razor-X> I've never played with Tcl.
17:04:22 <pikhq> nooga: {[Tcl] != $sucks}
17:04:55 <Razor-X> Haskell indentation does get annoying, especially with let.
17:06:11 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)O!"More disfigured smilies!!!"(_>)o.?]}
17:06:13 <EgoBot> More disfigured smilies!!!
17:07:02 <GregorR-W> ... using comments as a replacement for an 'end' keyword is a bit of a silly convention, plus it's just a convention (that nobody follows), so it helps nothing.
17:08:07 <ihope_> It may be silly, but it helps: http://pastebin.ca/104029
17:09:44 <GregorR-W> ihope_: Of course it helps, but NOBODY DOES IT
17:10:12 <ihope_> Make a new language that enforces it :-P
17:10:17 <GregorR-W> They made indentation part of the language, partially to enforce good style, but in the process they made a new convention that of course nobody follows, encouraging bad style >_<
17:10:30 <Razor-X> I wonder if someone will make a non-concise language here.
17:11:51 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)O!"I eat babies!"(_>)o.?]}
17:13:03 <GregorR-W> Razor-X: http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Mouth
17:13:06 <ihope_> Aww, ihope_repeater's gone.
17:13:50 <Razor-X> We need more committee members for the contest :(.
17:14:01 <ihope_> You daemon-killer, you!
17:14:22 <ihope_> Razor-X: face it. Nobody wants to have any power. :-P
17:14:49 <GregorR-W> I think the silhouette baby should be on the council.
17:16:27 <ihope_> No! Do not put the baby on the council!
17:20:01 <nooga> can you imagine a tesseract?
17:22:03 <ihope_> Connect the corners of two cubes together, and bang, a tesseract...
17:22:28 <lament> one of the lead PHP developers quit because he's antisemitic and the project was hosted by jews
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17:29:29 <nooga> i've got deep blue in my basement
17:31:20 <pikhq> I highly doubt that.
17:31:31 <pikhq> Deep Blue is too big to fit. :p
17:31:45 <Razor-X> Let him have his deluded dreams, pikhq.
17:32:30 <pikhq> Razor-X: Well, it could fit if his basement were the basement to a rather large colocation facility. . . ;p
17:32:57 <Razor-X> I'll let you have your deluded dreams too then :P.
17:33:41 <pikhq> Vista really /is/ a horrible OS. :p
17:34:13 <nooga> my basement is large
17:35:03 <GregorR-W> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Savannah :)
17:35:11 <nooga> i thought it's an OS lookalike
17:36:27 <Razor-X> It's the result of Microsoft having s... I mean yeah! It's an OS!
17:36:43 <pikhq> Windows Vista = KDE + OS X + Xgl + Compiz + Cowpies.
17:36:58 <Razor-X> + Firefox memory leak without Firefox.
17:37:20 <pikhq> That's the cowpies portion.
17:40:41 * GregorR-W tries to decide whether to put DO NOT PUT THE BABY IN THE HAMBURGER on his cube.
17:42:33 <nooga> 9DLCPWS - 9 Days Long Coding Party Without Sleep
17:42:45 <nooga> (okay, i've cheated)
17:43:14 <pikhq> Jebus. . . After a full day, I can't think well enough to code.
17:43:44 <pikhq> I start doing stuff like if {0 == 1} {.
17:43:44 <nooga> we've got suspicious energy drinks
17:43:56 <nooga> and toasts with peanut butter
17:44:06 <GregorR-W> I, on the other hand, am incapable of any function besides coding, regardless of my state.
17:44:24 <nooga> to prepare in a microweave
17:44:44 <nooga> and beer and computers
17:44:55 <nooga> and sometimes some1 visits us
17:44:55 <pikhq> I do my debugging as I sleep. ;)
17:45:08 <Razor-X> GregorR-W is the coding machine.
17:45:20 <GregorR-W> And I won't work for nobody but C.
17:56:22 <nooga> i've got enw concept
17:56:59 <nooga> a language where types are: nil, int, pair
17:59:02 <nooga> and there witll be such syntax in assignments -> 4 =: x := (5 =: $ := 6) #=> x = (4 (5 6))
17:59:28 <GregorR-W> I have a new concept for a language.
17:59:33 <GregorR-W> The only types are nil, int and pair.
17:59:44 <GregorR-W> And the syntax for assignment: 4 =: x := (5 =: $ := 6) #=> x = (4 (5 6))
18:02:03 <nooga> my brain is melted down
18:02:16 <GregorR-W> Because my (totally original and unique) idea was so awesome?
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18:13:26 <GregorR-W> Hmmmmmmmmm, just realized why I shouldn't put up a DO NOT PUT THE BABY poster on my cube.
18:13:43 <GregorR-W> The person in the cube across from me just got back from maternity leave :P
18:13:54 <GregorR-W> And the only people who find NO humor in DNPTB are new mothers.
18:16:59 <lament> rm: cannot open directory 'lament': You fail it!
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18:46:07 <GregorR-W> Woman in the cubical next to me, in reference to her attempts at getting a Marine Biology degree:
18:46:14 <GregorR-W> "But I wanted to see whales gettin' it on, not do science!"
18:47:19 <lament> sweet, marine biology is nice
18:51:02 <Eidolos> Yeah, lament's been like that for as long as I have known him.
18:58:37 <lament> sense of humour has never been one of my strong points
18:59:43 <lament> 10:47 <GregorR-W> <--lament
18:59:51 <lament> that part, at least, is completely untrue
19:00:23 <lament> other than in the sense of me stabbing you with a long pointy spear
19:00:42 <GregorR-W> With hooks going backwards so when you pull it out it really devastates my internal organs.
19:01:56 <pikhq> It devastates as it goes in. :p
19:02:35 <pikhq> Or, alternately, it's a bitch to get out because there isn't a handle to the spear. :p
19:03:00 <GregorR-W> You just have to reach in and grab something, and pull at it.
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20:23:05 <nooga> well is the whing from which you can get water
20:23:44 <ihope_> A well can provide_water.
20:26:59 <nooga> call me Gordon Freeman
20:34:44 <nooga> i am Gordon Freeman
20:38:46 <lament> your mom's gordon freeman
20:41:01 <nooga> leave my mom away!
20:41:11 <GregorR-W> It's so nice to be surrounded by intellectuals.
20:41:26 <nooga> GregorR-W: where are they?
20:41:41 <nooga> GregorR-W: i see only u and me
20:42:08 <Razor-X> And my Master of Miracles.
20:44:48 <lament> GregorR-W: your MOM is surrounded by intellectuals
20:45:03 <Razor-X> See. He keeps referring to the Master of Miracles.
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20:51:24 <nooga> who'll be Alyx Vance?
21:49:31 <lament> bsmntbombdood: your nick is too long!
21:50:27 <ihope_> It's too long, but it's too late to change it!
21:50:52 <lament> especially since he almost never talks!
21:51:25 <Razor-X> Stop talking about my Master Of Miracles lament :(.
21:52:09 <lament> i'm not even talking to you.
21:53:10 <pikhq> !bf Whee. Is this valid Brainfuck code, Egobot?
21:53:38 * pikhq is being an idiot today; sorry.
21:54:44 <pikhq> !bf +[.,+][While pikhq is an idiot, do "Be a fucking idiot.".]
21:55:16 <pikhq> !i 1 +[.,+][While pikhq is an idiot, do "Be a fucking idiot.".]
21:56:10 <EgoBot> <CTCP>,\/-,^\Xijmf!qjlir!jt!bo!jejpu-!ep!#Cf!b!gvdljoh!jejpu/#/^<CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP>
21:56:27 <pikhq> I *really* broke it.
21:57:04 * pikhq is a realy idiot, I fear
21:58:26 <EgoBot> Use: daemon <daemon> <daemon-command> Function: start a daemon process.
21:59:02 <pikhq> !daemon txtgen bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]
21:59:28 <pikhq> I think that should be a bit more efficient then bf_txtgen. :p
21:59:34 <EgoBot> 1 pikhq: daemon txtgen bf
21:59:44 <GregorR-W> Except that it's not doing anything :P
22:00:04 <EgoBot> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------
22:00:30 <Razor-X> Well, at least it's easier to human optimize.
22:01:12 <Razor-X> pikhq: Bonvolu vidus http://www.esperanto.mv.ru/ESP/literaturo.html .
22:01:46 <Razor-X> Estas tre bona paĝo pri literaturo en Espenanto ke vi povas paroli (havas Scienco-ficiono tiel ke mi estas feliĉa :P.)
22:02:15 <pikhq> Mia Esperanto estas malbona. :'(
22:03:08 <Razor-X> Pri tiu vi devas uzi La Revo (La Reta Vortaro, uzu Google) kiam vi legos tiun libron.
22:03:48 <Razor-X> Estas tre bona metodo por lerni malfrue vortoj kaj legi multajn librojn pri interesajn temoj.
22:04:26 <Razor-X> Switching back to English (not because I can't continue), I've only been at it for a month or so, you know?
22:04:34 <Razor-X> But I guess Japanese, French, and Bengali help :P.
22:04:37 <lament> Esperanto is for doofii
22:04:43 <pikhq> And I haven't done more than a few hours.
22:04:55 <pikhq> Nihongo o kudasai!
22:05:01 <Razor-X> I read off-and-on, but most of my core words came fro the first week.
22:05:12 <pikhq> 2 years of Japanese for me. :)
22:06:55 <pikhq> No; my terminal doesn't do Unicode.
22:07:08 <Razor-X> I use Kanji for everything, because it's a lot more convenient.
22:07:20 <Razor-X> Hai, iimashita. Manga to Chiisaikodomo no hon wo
22:07:21 <nooga> isn't it that artificial lang. created by one Pole?
22:07:36 <Razor-X> nooga: Not quite Polish then, but yeah.
22:08:16 <nooga> Polish is 180 degrees from Esperanto ;p
22:08:28 <Razor-X> It's a smattering of a bunch of languages.
22:08:58 <lament> esperanto is really ugly :(
22:09:20 <Razor-X> I find it sounds nicer on the tongue than most other languages.
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22:09:33 <lament> well, my favourite language is Portuguese
22:11:00 <Razor-X> If you understand that, don't say it :P.
22:11:02 <pikhq> I prefer English, simply because I know it very well.
22:11:18 <lament> and my second favourite language is English
22:11:18 <Razor-X> English sounds like chickens being defiled by elephants.
22:11:43 <lament> chickens defiled by elephants sound completely different
22:11:48 <pikhq> Razor-X: It does. I *only* prefer it because I know it.
22:11:52 <Razor-X> Maybe. I've never actually heard it.
22:12:01 <Razor-X> It's not my native tongue, so bleh.
22:12:08 <lament> It's not my native tongue either
22:12:13 <lament> i still like it though
22:12:14 <pikhq> ihope: The daemon isn't running.
22:12:24 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon txtgen bf
22:12:24 <pikhq> Razor-X: It's my native tongue. . . What's yours, anyways?
22:12:53 <ihope> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------++++++++++.----------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------++++++++++.----------
22:13:32 <pikhq> It. . . . Works. How?!?
22:13:53 * lament has no opinion on the sound of Bengali
22:14:05 <lament> but i'm sure it's worse than Portuguese :)
22:14:15 <Razor-X> Bengali is a lot more sing-songy than Romantic/Germanic (Sanskrit has the same quality) languages.
22:14:55 <Razor-X> I like it, but it has some sounds than I'd be hard pressed to find Romantic/Germanic speakers who can make them :P.
22:15:36 <Razor-X> Check out the IPA pronunciations.
22:16:02 <nooga> i like how Finnish sounds
22:16:30 <Razor-X> I like Japanese too, but not specifically. Plus the conjugations used in official speech don't sound all that nice.
22:16:39 <lament> nothing like portuguese though ;)
22:16:43 <Razor-X> But it's the best basic conversational sounding language, IMO.
22:17:02 <nooga> portuguese sounds to me like Toklien's black speech
22:17:15 <Razor-X> Master Of Miracles, that is.
22:17:34 <lament> portuguese has soooooo many vowels
22:17:39 <lament> and sooooo few consonants
22:18:00 <Razor-X> You don't like German's awesome consonant sounds?
22:18:12 <Razor-X> Yeah, it sounds awful, IMO.
22:18:17 <Razor-X> Bengali has a lot of vowel sounds too.
22:18:31 <ihope> I need a language with two consonants and one vowel.
22:18:40 <lament> ihope: "oaia aia eia ei"?
22:18:55 <ihope> And one of the consonant has to be a stop consonant, and the other can't be.
22:19:06 <nooga> means a Bug in Polish
22:19:23 <Razor-X> Why not make a language like that?
22:19:28 <Razor-X> And define grammar based on placement?
22:19:44 <Razor-X> Let's call it a Sapir-Whorf Snarepit!
22:19:59 <lament> if you want a small language, just use toki pona
22:20:09 <lament> (which sounds pretty nice imo)
22:20:13 <ihope> "Sa sat sat a sastats sat tat?"
22:20:15 <Razor-X> Is it a Sapir-Whorf Snarepit?
22:20:25 <lament> Razor-X: it has ~120 words, so i would say so
22:20:52 <lament> mi pilin e ni: toki pona li pona kute
22:20:59 <lament> ("i think toki pona sounds nice")
22:21:31 <ihope> What does "Toki Pona" mean?
22:21:48 <lament> toki - good (from "talk")
22:22:04 <lament> pona - good (from "bona")
22:22:37 <lament> http://www.tokipona.org/
22:22:52 <nooga> i like nordic languages
22:22:55 <ihope> So Toki Pona is not an agglutinative language?
22:23:39 <lament> it's close to chinese in that it never joins or modifies anything
22:23:47 <Razor-X> If it's so small, I can memorize that in about a day.
22:23:58 <Razor-X> Since I can do about 100-120 words in a language in a few hours.
22:23:58 <lament> Razor-X: join #tokipona if you do
22:24:19 <Razor-X> ŝajnas tre bona lingvo ke vi povas paroli.
22:24:23 <nooga> when i pronounce it
22:24:39 <nooga> it sounds a bit like Finnish
22:24:57 <lament> Razor-X: TP has several words taken from English, and several from Esperanto, so should be even easier
22:25:08 <lament> not sure about Japanese
22:25:26 <nooga> oko means eye in TP?
22:25:28 <lament> yeah, those are slavic
22:25:44 <nooga> noga -> noka -> leg
22:25:53 <lament> that doesn't make it polish :)
22:26:06 <nooga> but now it's easier to me
22:26:30 <nooga> soem familiar words
22:27:31 <nooga> tengwar for tokipona
22:27:39 <nooga> it would make sense
22:27:46 <lament> Razor-X: toki pona was created by a lesbian :)
22:28:05 <lament> well, he was a guy when he created it, but became a (lesbian) woman since...
22:29:58 <lament> "ma mama li lili" - "motherland is small"
22:30:10 <lament> "meli mi li moli" - "my woman is dead"
22:30:35 <nooga> if you say it fast
22:30:49 <nooga> the difference is almost none ;p
22:33:00 <pikhq> A guy becoming a lesbian woman?!? WTF?!?
22:33:16 <lament> you'd do it if you had the money
22:35:19 <lament> pikhq: why wouldn't you? it's fun.
22:35:45 <pikhq> lament: Well, it would give me a chance with Razor-X. :p
22:35:48 <nooga> but only if i could back
22:35:59 <nooga> to the initial state :>
22:36:18 <lament> pikhq: exactly, what else do you need?
22:36:21 <nooga> if it wouldn't be so funny as i expected
22:37:54 <nooga> you're skilled painter
22:38:04 <nooga> http://toki.dm7.net/lesson/aei.jpg :D
22:38:20 <nooga> and you're one of that fluent TP speakers ;p
22:39:01 <nooga> TP words sound quite childish
22:39:15 <pikhq> I should learn it.
22:39:46 <lament> with 120 words, you can't waste a word on 'ladybird'
22:40:01 <lament> pipi loje - red insect
22:40:09 <nooga> mani - like "money" but in way that child would write it
22:45:25 <lament> oh, tokipona does have words from japanese
22:46:19 <lament> ...that's the only one
22:48:24 <lament> sina is from finnish i believe?
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22:49:10 <nooga> and mina (a with dots) is also from finnish
22:49:58 <nooga> i eat = i am food LMAO :D
22:51:01 <lament> oh yeah, for some reason that doesn't ever bother anyone
22:52:49 <nooga> i thought about a language in which every verb would be a connection of noun with tense qualifier
22:53:29 <lament> toki pona is somewhat like that... but without the tense qualifier
22:54:17 <nooga> eg. me salla (i am leg, without qualifier), me a sallas ('i use legs in present' - i walk)
22:55:05 <nooga> me e sallas (future, 'i'll walk'), me o sallas (past, 'i walked')....
22:55:50 <nooga> but it would give many misunderstandings
22:55:53 <lament> mi tawa - i walk (go away)
22:56:08 <lament> tenpo kama la mi tawa - i will walk (go away)
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22:58:54 <lament> the coolest feature of TP is the "la" construct.
22:59:34 <nooga> i'm having problems with tenses in English :/
23:00:07 <nooga> especially those perfect ones
23:00:44 <pikhq> Don't worry about it; it's my native tongue and /I/ don't understand those.
23:00:46 <lament> i would have been having problems with them too, but i have studied them a lot
23:01:13 <lament> admittedly i have had difficulties at first
23:01:49 <nooga> well, my English came to me in very natural way, i don't like to learn it with book or in school ;|
23:02:20 <pikhq> Mine came via forced beating into my head, I fear (couldn't speak until I was 4 x_x)
23:02:55 * pikhq needs to turn on his brain, it seems.
23:03:00 <nooga> but you're native?
23:03:44 <pikhq> Unless, that is, the tongue of the USA was German when I was growing up, and it just changed to English without me noticing. :p
23:03:50 <nooga> whole world speaks your language
23:04:09 <pikhq> Rather convenient.
23:04:44 <nooga> it might have been Polish instead of English! And then what?!
23:05:05 <pikhq> Then I'd be attacking you with a pole. :p
23:06:26 <nooga> If i were native English speaker i would get rather killed than attempt to learn correct Polish.
23:07:15 <nooga> it's fscking twisted if you look at it from a non-pole perspective
23:07:48 <lament> yes, slavic languages are not exactly easy.
23:08:10 <pikhq> That's common to all of the European languages, IMHO.
23:08:28 <lament> slavic languages are much harder than romance languages.
23:08:31 <lament> they just have more stuff.
23:09:21 <pikhq> English is probably the worst, because it's known for mugging other languages for new vocabulary. :p
23:11:15 <nooga> there is no genre in English
23:11:28 <lament> English is certainly very difficult.
23:13:05 <nooga> lament: what language is your native?
23:15:38 <ihope> Hmm, perfect tenses...
23:16:26 <ihope> Who needs 'em? :-P
23:17:13 <nooga> but it looks as if i were handicaped
23:17:29 <nooga> using only less complex tenses sucks
23:20:26 <nooga> hehehe, Polish is really tough: So what have you done? => Co wy zrobilicie? == Cocie zrobili? == Co wycie zrobili? == Co ecie zrobili?
23:21:17 <nooga> there r some niuances between those phrases, but generally they mean exactly the same - "What have you done?"
23:21:52 <nooga> and that's not rare
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23:22:36 <nooga> lament: i knew, your name is rather distinctive
23:25:34 * nooga pink floyd - any colour you like
23:25:57 <Razor-X> pikhq: You know TS people can swing either way on the spectrum.
23:26:27 <Razor-X> Transsexual, mind the abbreviation.
23:26:28 * pikhq groks the acronym now
23:26:47 <Razor-X> I think the majority of them do turn out non-straight after hormones and surgery and whatnot.
23:26:49 <pikhq> There is such a thing as a brain.
23:26:56 <pikhq> A brain can not_work.
23:27:08 <pikhq> When a brain is to not_work:
23:27:24 <pikhq> When the program starts:
23:27:39 <pikhq> There is a brain called brain_death.
23:27:48 <pikhq> brain_death is to not_work.
23:28:33 <nooga> i must go to sleep
23:29:04 <GregorR-W> pikhq: "brain death" didn't need the _
23:29:30 <nooga> but i need to wake up at 7:00 and catch a train ;p
23:34:55 <nooga> well, number 21 in Finnish is quite cool: kaksikymmentyksi
23:36:52 <nooga> kahk see kuum meh nta uk see
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23:51:11 <ihope> "adage" and I thought it would be pronounced like "Udage" :-P
23:53:27 <ihope> I guess that would be "uh-da-gee" instead of "yer-da-gee".
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02:14:47 <kb3nnj> Well, no one can sue this channel for false advertising, that's for sure.
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02:27:59 <Razor-X> You may also want to join the contest, if you want to.
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02:58:04 <kb3nnj> Anyone still alive in here?
02:59:23 <ihope> Except that I'm tired and I'm looking forward to sleeping.
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04:43:55 <GregorR> Uuuuuuuuuuse the EgoBot :P
04:46:18 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
04:46:20 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
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05:10:01 <GregorR> You'd put the program after that to be useful :P
05:29:52 <GregorR> Also, a program that does ... anything at all would be ideal :P
05:30:47 <theblue> What's the difference between 8, 16, etc?
05:30:58 <GregorR> The bitwidth of the interpreter.
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05:31:50 <GregorR> !bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
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13:43:17 <ihope> Hmm, EQBF starts with |1>? Why the heck is that?
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18:58:41 * pgimeno finally manages to catch up with the log
19:09:59 <pgimeno> http://www.qubit.org/oldsite/resource/deutsch85.pdf <- interesting paper which pretty much analyzes "quantum completeness" (too technical though)
20:16:15 <Razor-X> GregorR: Do you mind if I make a few more modifications to Glass?
20:27:44 <Razor-X> I wanna add in binary and, or, xor, nand, nor, xnor.
20:44:29 <GregorR> OK, I might disagree with that.
20:44:38 <GregorR> That can be trivially written in Glass.
20:44:52 <GregorR> Furthermore, I've written all of it already.
20:45:27 <Razor-X> I mean, you probably *can* but....
20:45:42 <GregorR> Oh! I didn't imply 'bitwise' from 'binary'
20:45:51 <Razor-X> Yeah. Sorry, I meant bitwise.
20:45:58 <Razor-X> Not logical operators. Those are easy to implement.
20:46:21 <pgimeno> reminder for Read-only Gregor: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/malbolge.patch
20:46:34 <Razor-X> I hope Glass becomes semi-useful at some future time.
20:47:19 <Razor-X> Wait... how would you have logical XNOR? :P.
20:50:17 <pgimeno> yeah, the reference interpreter is buggy
20:50:26 <Razor-X> Thou art more courageous than I :P.
20:50:56 <pgimeno> Abandon hope, all ye who enter Malbolge programs into the interpreter
20:52:02 <pgimeno> it's addictive and time-consuming
20:52:05 <Razor-X> Why don't you enter the Malbolge portion of the competition?
20:52:20 <pgimeno> because it's addictive and time-consuming :P
20:52:23 <Razor-X> You're sure to get the True Masochist award, since I don't think anyone else has the courage to compete.
20:53:58 <pgimeno> well, because 1) I don't like to contend, 2) my job does not allow me much free time, 3) I'm not sure I will be able to solve any challenge
20:54:24 <pgimeno> Malbolge is really really awkward to code in
20:54:32 <pgimeno> maybe if it were Dis instead...
20:55:15 <pgimeno> this is 99bob in normalized Malbolge: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/bottles-995.n
20:56:02 <pgimeno> the "i" instruction is a jump
20:57:33 <pgimeno> only the first two lines and last 10 lines contain jump instructions, meaning that the rest is only data manipulation to set up memory to desired values
20:57:43 <Razor-X> We're not giving a challenge to Malbolge.
20:57:50 <Razor-X> It's simlpy ``Whoever makes the better program''.
20:58:13 <pgimeno> and what if Hisashi Iizawa wants to enter the contest? :)
20:58:55 <pgimeno> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html
21:00:24 <pgimeno> about the data manipulation phase, it's almost impossible to do manually in a compact manner; program-assisted initialization is easier and I'd bet it's been used for 99bob
21:01:02 <Razor-X> I guess we'll let Malbolge users use program assistance.
21:01:12 <pgimeno> compare to my cat program: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge#Sample_programs
21:02:42 <GregorR> I think we should drop Malbolge.
21:02:56 <GregorR> I can't imagine we'll get more than one participant in that language, and if we get one it's an autmatic win (read: lame)
21:03:59 <GregorR> Not much on the defence, are you :P
21:06:39 <Razor-X> I was hoping that maybe some people would try.
21:06:45 <Razor-X> But I wasn't really expecting much.
21:06:54 <Razor-X> T3h patch is almost finished for Bitwise operations.
21:09:22 <pgimeno> oh, a Perl compiler in Intercal
21:09:31 <pgimeno> or was it the other way around?
21:10:07 <pgimeno> anyway I've just found this: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~intercal/manual/quantum.html
21:12:16 <pgimeno> (apparently by one of the committee members)
21:14:26 <pgimeno> er, maybe I should have said "the other committee member"
21:18:13 <Razor-X> I might make a Perl regexp interpreter in INTERCAL.
21:18:22 <Razor-X> But right now a BF interpreter is enough.
21:19:16 <Razor-X> Yeah, I had ta be away-ish. Now I'm not. And it seems my patch works so far. Just two more things to add.
21:20:10 <Razor-X> Let's give it a name... GNU Glass v (insert version number) !
21:35:07 <pgimeno> seems that the patch is effective
21:39:33 <pgimeno> !malbolge '=a;:?87[543216/SR2+*No-,%*#G4
21:41:07 <Razor-X> GregorR: http://www.sosdg.org/~razorx/builtins.diff
21:41:19 <Razor-X> There, it has the new B class and the corresponding bitwise functions.
21:48:49 <pgimeno> yay, the malbolge 99bob is #1 with 4.74 points out of 5
21:51:03 <Razor-X> Does anyone know of any good introductory level texts to the piano that's free?
22:06:03 <pgimeno> hm, there's no Dis version of 99bob
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01:37:20 <Razor-X> GregorR: Did you get my patch earlier?
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08:07:31 <Razor-X> I wonder if GregorR added in my newest patch.
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10:17:01 <GregorR> Razor-X: I haven't been home all day, and now I'm going to sleep, but tomorrow I will.
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15:48:36 <ihope> I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking.
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15:55:11 <ihope> ...Now is anybody going to ask what I just apologized for so I can say that it's nothing really, but it's been nagging me lately?
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16:05:22 <nothingrise> anyone knows how to program brainfuck on mac?
16:06:10 <pikhq> Should'nt be any more annoying then on any other platform.
16:06:21 <ihope> I'm sure there are BF interpreters for the Mac.
16:10:31 <pikhq> If nothing else, you could just get one for UNIX and compile it yourself.
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17:30:12 <Razor-X> Then make one for the Mac ;).
17:34:06 <ihope> Let's see... start edge-to-corner, which can lead to edge-to-edge or corner-to-corner, and edge-to-edge can lead to corner-to-corner or completeness, and corner-to-corner can lead only to completeness.
17:36:08 <ihope> Some game based on two-dimensional Newtonian physics.
17:40:27 <Razor-X> Pshhh. That ruins the fun of the game :P.
17:41:02 <ihope> That's the point of the game.
17:41:14 <Razor-X> Is it a motorcycle-ish game?
17:41:48 <Razor-X> Then I'm thinking of the wrong game, but that's not very unlike me.
17:42:21 <ihope> Well, the game doesn't actually exist.
17:59:30 <ihope> I could probably describe it.
18:01:48 <ihope> So the "playing field" is seven units wide and seventeen units high. The bottom wall makes every object that hits it faster, the sides just act like normal walls, and the top wall is "special", and it destroys whatever hits it, among other things.
18:03:41 <ihope> Objects are composed of little colored squares, each one unit in side length. When two squares of the same color hit each other, they stick together but otherwise act normally, and when two squares of different colors hit each other, they act completely normal.
18:03:49 <Razor-X> So much for Newtonian physics.
18:04:39 <ihope> On second thought, the bottom wall should act normal but two squares of different colors should propel themselves away from each other when they git.
18:06:10 <ihope> When two squares of the same color are touching in any of four ways, they must remain touching that way.
18:06:50 <ihope> The four ways are corner-touching-edge, corner-touching-corner, edge-touching-edge-but-not-matching, and edge-touching-edge-and-matching.
18:09:14 <ihope> Here's a horribly-badly-done picture: http://i7.tinypic.com/21eba0o.png
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21:07:43 * Sgeo is switching to Micro$oft Windoze. BRB all [possibly not freenod.. err, forget I said that, don't want to seem insulting..]
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21:30:16 <pgimeno> !bf +.+++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.>++++++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>-.++..++++.>+.
21:33:36 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>++++++++++>>><<<<-]>-.++..++++. [119]
21:34:26 <EgoBot> 94 +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++. [678]
21:35:17 <pikhq> !bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.
21:36:16 <ihope_> !bf_txtgen ACTION pokes pgimeno
21:36:22 <pgimeno> !daemon moo bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.
21:36:26 * pikhq should work on networking in ORK. . .
21:36:51 <pgimeno> darn, maybe I haven't understood how daemons work
21:37:01 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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21:37:26 <ihope_> pgimeno: yeah, it's pretty much a handy way to give names to your processes and such.
21:41:14 <EgoBot> Use: daemon <daemon> <daemon-command> Function: start a daemon process.
21:41:39 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Moo!"(_o)o.?]}
21:42:21 <Razor-X> Hmm... I wonder if GregorR added in my patches...
21:42:56 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_b)B!<1><2>(_b)a.?(_o)(on).?]}
21:43:44 <ihope_> Moo is "+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.", so, um...
21:44:30 <EgoBot> 76 ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>-.++..>++.<-.>+++++++.<+.++++++++. [246]
21:44:43 <ihope_> !bf ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>-.++..>++.<-.>+++++++.<+.++++++++.
21:45:00 <pikhq> ihope_: That's \0x01ACTION moos\0x01
21:45:26 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"\0x01ACTION moos\0x01"(_o)o.?]}
21:45:54 <ihope_> Anyway, the daemon needs to output "\1ACTION moos\1" every time it gets a newline.
21:46:23 <pikhq> Razor-X: \0x01 was supposed to be parsed, by you, to be the ASCII character defined by the hexadecimal number 01. -_-'
21:46:58 <pgimeno> ihope_: do you mean that invoking a daemon just sends a \n to it?
21:47:25 <ihope_> pgimeno: well, it sends whatever text you gave, followed by \n.
21:48:01 <ihope_> !daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+]
21:48:36 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf ,---------[+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.]Does this work?
21:48:44 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon cat bf
21:48:46 <EgoBot> 2 pikhq: daemon moo bf
21:48:58 <pikhq> Apparently that's not working. -_-'
21:49:14 <EgoBot> GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\
21:49:24 <pikhq> That really didn't work.
21:49:24 <ihope_> Well, the input thing isn't inside any loops.
21:49:37 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon cat bf
21:49:53 <ihope_> This, I think: +[print[,----------]+]
21:50:15 <pikhq> 9^!daemon moo bf +[,---------[+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.]][Does this work?]
21:50:44 <ihope_> Well, you might want to try this: +[>print<[,----------]+]
21:51:35 <ihope_> !daemon moo bf +[>+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.<[,----------]+]
21:51:52 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon cat bf
21:51:54 <EgoBot> 2 ihope_: daemon moo bf
21:52:27 <ihope_> !daemon moo bf +[>+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.<[,----------]+]
21:52:35 <ihope_> !moo This text shouldn't be output.
21:52:57 * EgoBot moos<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}<CTCP>GI\OUT#wyy}
21:53:46 <ihope_> !bf_txtgen ACTION moos
21:54:17 <EgoBot> 115 +++++++++++[>>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++..++++. [490]
21:54:20 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon cat bf
21:54:49 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Stop abusing me, meaw."(_o)o.?]}
21:54:53 <EgoBot> Stop abusing me, meaw.
21:55:12 <ihope_> +[>+.++++++++++[>>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++..++++[-]+.<<<<[,----------]+]
21:55:21 <Razor-X> !bf +[>+.++++++++++[>>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++..++++[-]+.<<<<[,----------]+]
21:55:27 <ihope_> !daemon moo bf +[>+.++++++++++[>>++++++++>++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>-.++.<----.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++..++++[-]+.<<<<[,----------]+]
21:55:59 * EgoBot moo<CTCP><CTCP>BDJPO@npp<CTCP><CTCP>BDJPO`npp
21:56:07 * EgoBot moo<CTCP><CTCP>BDJPO@npp<CTCP><CTCP>BDJPO`npp<CTCP><CTCP>BDPJPOnpp<CTCP><CTCP>BDJPOnpp
21:56:29 <EgoBot> 1 ihope_: daemon cat bf
21:57:38 <pgimeno> !daemon moo bf [+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.]
22:07:49 <pgimeno> !bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.]
22:20:40 <Razor-X> No! EGOBOT! <Darth Vader> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! </Darth Vader>.
23:34:34 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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23:34:57 <Razor-X> Woaha. What happened to EgoBot?
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23:35:22 <GregorR> I didn't do a very good job taking it down :P
23:35:31 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
23:35:34 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
23:36:09 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Stop abusing me, meaw."(_o)o.?]}
23:36:11 <EgoBot> Stop abusing me, meaw.
23:40:38 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
23:42:51 <pikhq> !adjust WTF does this do?
23:43:20 <pikhq> Apparently it doesn't do anything.
23:49:50 <pgimeno> pikhq: that probably refers to http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/ADJUST
23:49:56 <pgimeno> !daemon moo bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.]
23:50:22 <EgoBot> 1 pgimeno: daemon moo bf
23:50:56 * EgoBot moos<CTCP><CTCP>ACTION moos<CTCP><CTCP>ACTION moos<CTCP><CTCP>ACTION moos
23:51:14 <EgoBot> Use: show <pid> Function: display the current output buffer for a process
23:52:04 * EgoBot moos<CTCP><CTCP>ACTION moos
23:52:16 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.]
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23:56:05 <pgimeno> !daemon remoo bf +[[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.[,.----------]]
23:56:16 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION moos<CTCP>wildly
23:56:54 <pgimeno> !daemon remoo bf +[[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+[,.----------]+.]
23:57:06 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION mooswildly
23:57:42 <EgoBot> <CTCP><CTCP>ACTION mooswildly
23:57:56 <EgoBot> <CTCP><CTCP>ACTION moos
23:59:14 <pikhq> !daemon bf me +[+[,----------]+.[,.]+.+++++++++.]
23:59:25 <pikhq> !me isn't sure if this will work
23:59:33 <pikhq> !daemon me bf +[+[,----------]+.[,.]+.+++++++++.]
23:59:35 <pikhq> !me isn't sure if this will work
23:59:58 * pikhq did it wrong. -_-'
00:00:44 <pikhq> !daemon me bf +[+[,----------]+.[[,----------].]+.+++++++++.]
00:00:50 <pikhq> !me Does this work?
00:01:08 <pikhq> We killed it, I think.
00:01:24 <pikhq> Err. *I* killed it.
00:04:10 <pgimeno> bbl, this debian update affected X
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00:08:37 * ihope gives pikhq a ticket and pokes GregorR
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04:12:25 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.]
04:12:52 <pikhq> Hmm. I think there's a bit of a bug in there. . .
04:13:23 <pikhq> Specifically, it seems to be moving up 6 points in the array each time.
04:14:19 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +[[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.<<<<<]
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05:02:06 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.]
05:02:46 <pikhq> It sent a private message to me.
05:02:48 <pikhq> 22:02 * EgoBot moos
05:02:57 <pikhq> AND IT WON'T STOP!
05:03:23 <pikhq> Seriously. It. Won't. Stop.
05:03:27 <Razor-X> Feel the pain and suffering of the mooing EgoBot.
05:03:43 <pikhq> I think my daemon is broken.
05:03:47 <Razor-X> As it moos away its undue pain.
05:04:15 <pikhq> Now, how the hell did it start sending PMs to me instead of to the channel?!?
05:04:38 <pikhq> 22:04 <pikhq> Go to hell.
05:04:38 <pikhq> 22:04 * EgoBot moos
05:05:51 <Razor-X> (Don't we do that once a day?)
05:05:56 <pikhq> I've found it to be self-breaking.
05:05:57 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Stop abusing me, meaw."(_o)o.?]}
05:06:09 <Razor-X> Yeah, I think you totally broke it.
05:06:10 <pikhq> I've broken it 12 times today, I think. :p
05:07:01 <pikhq> Now, that code *should* just be waiting for a newline, and then sending \1ACTION moos\1. . . Instead, it's sending a private message to me. Forever.
05:07:28 <Razor-X> Great bug pikhq, great bug.
05:07:42 <Razor-X> I guess good programmers find creative ways to crash software.
05:07:54 <pikhq> What's worse is that it worked the first few times I ran it.
05:08:06 <Razor-X> Which means that GregorR broke something.
05:08:24 <Razor-X> ihope also broke it earlier today.
05:09:23 * pikhq considers writing a bot in ORK for #esoteric. . .
05:09:39 <pikhq> Just as soon as I write the phone and mailman classes for ORK, of course.
05:10:13 <Razor-X> I should code in network functions to Glass.
05:10:59 <pikhq> Maybe even a programmer class, to embed C++ into ORK code. :p
05:11:14 <Razor-X> No C++ into Glass. I like it, defiled smilies and all.
05:11:24 <Razor-X> But what makes us madwo/men?
05:11:41 <Arrogant> That is not a word and I refuse to answer the question
05:11:46 <pikhq> We're contemplating using an esoteric language for something serious, that's what.
05:11:54 <Razor-X> But what makes us mad men or women?
05:12:46 <Razor-X> Join the Esolang competition then.
05:12:50 <Razor-X> That'll make you even more mad.
05:13:00 <Razor-X> Then you get to say ``MUN GO MAAAD IN HIDALGO!!!''.
05:13:15 <Razor-X> (Note: I haven't watched the movie, I just remember the cheezy movie commercial.)
05:36:41 <GregorR> I took down EgoBot without sending a QUIT.
05:36:51 <GregorR> It takes an incredible amount of time to ping out apparently :P
05:37:37 <pikhq> It's still mooing.
05:38:26 <pikhq> 22:37 * EgoBot moos
05:38:42 <pikhq> I don't think it paid attention.
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09:22:53 <Razor-X> Make your two-story house.
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13:29:33 <pikhq> Egobot is *still* mooing.
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14:26:05 <GregorR> I killed the bloody proc hours ago.
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14:27:02 <GregorR> THERE IS NO SHELL WITH EGOBOT RUNNING
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14:28:49 <pikhq> It never figured out how to quit.
14:29:06 <GregorR> I have no idea where that bash was running
14:29:39 <pikhq> Creative hackers find creative ways to break stuff. ;)
14:34:45 <GregorR> Even when it's flooding, !ps should work, it'll flush out the buffer before ps'ing.
14:34:55 <GregorR> Same with kill, so !kill should even be able to kill flooding processes.
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14:36:44 <pgimeno> this apparently broke something:
14:38:04 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +.+.
14:38:16 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +..
14:38:35 * pikhq demonstrates proper syntax with pointless code
14:51:04 <ihope> !daemon moo bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.]
14:51:12 -!- EgoBot has quit (Success).
14:51:27 <ihope> At least the daemon succeeded.
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15:00:04 <pikhq> I think we've estabilished that my moo code is midly broken.
15:00:10 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
15:00:12 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
15:01:15 <ihope> !bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.]
15:01:53 <ihope> ...Why's it acting differently here?
15:02:11 <pikhq> It ignores an eof. :)
15:02:21 <pikhq> !i 1 This is input that should be ignored.
15:02:40 <pikhq> !i 1 This won't, however.\n
15:03:04 <pikhq> Okay. It is bork, then.
15:08:26 <pikhq> . . . I think I might know what the bug is.
15:08:55 <pikhq> Each time it executes, it goes 5 cells up.
15:09:04 <pikhq> Eventually, it hits the end of EgoBot's memory.
15:09:29 <pikhq> !bf +[+[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.]
15:10:58 <pikhq> !bf +[[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.<<<<<[-]+]
15:11:23 <pikhq> There we go. That should work a bit better.
15:11:48 <pikhq> !daemon moo bf +[[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.<<<<<[-]+]
15:12:32 <pikhq> Now, to figure out why we're so intent on getting EgoBot to moo.
15:21:24 <pikhq> !i 1 Moo\nDamn\nYou\n
15:22:28 <pikhq> It's mooing at me again.
15:22:44 <pikhq> Why does it moo at me?!?
15:23:01 <ihope> !daemon moo bf +[[,----------]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]>[-]<<<<<+.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>----.<++++++.++++++.-.>>-.>-.++..++++.>+.+++++++++.<<<<<[-]+]
15:23:26 <pikhq> !moo I get the impression that giving input
15:23:41 <pikhq> !moo \nLike\nthis really fucks\nthings\nup.
15:24:11 <pikhq> Now is it mooing at you?
15:24:23 <ihope> It mooed at me three times.
15:25:17 <pikhq> Well, it works as long as you don't give it other input.
15:25:22 <pikhq> Not very robust, but. . .
15:26:44 <pikhq> I think the bug is probably in the daemon code.
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15:37:46 <ihope> !daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+]
15:39:35 <EgoBot> !daemon cat bf +[,.[-]+]
15:40:16 <ihope> 1 EgoBot: daemon cat bf
15:40:36 <pikhq> !cat I, for one, am going to figure out how to get Egobot to do /me foo.
15:40:40 <EgoBot> I, for one, am going to figure out how to get Egobot to do /me foo.
15:41:31 <ihope> That would be done using !pager.
15:42:32 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<-]>.<[-]+]
15:42:44 -!- sedimin has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
15:43:05 <ihope> !pager P a g e r i s e a s y t o b r e a k .
15:43:21 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon moo bf
15:43:23 <EgoBot> 2 ihope: daemon cat bf
15:43:25 <EgoBot> 3 ihope: daemon pager bf
15:43:31 <EgoBot> /Pager is easy to break.
15:43:49 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<-]>.<[-]+]
15:44:09 <ihope> !pager P a g e r i s e a s y t o b r e a k .
15:44:37 <EgoBot> Pager is easy to break.
15:45:32 <ihope> Well, let's see here...
15:45:55 <ihope> Be careful not to break it, eh?
15:46:02 <pikhq> It comes pre-broken.
15:46:30 <ihope> Don't break it more.
15:47:11 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N m o o s%a
15:47:23 <EgoBot> J<CTCP>ACTION moos<CTCP>
15:47:56 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N m o o s%a
15:48:19 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION moos<CTCP>
15:48:32 <ihope> !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<-]>.<[-]+]
15:48:44 <ihope> !pager %a A C T I O N m o o s%a
15:50:29 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTIONmoos<CTCP>eJ
15:52:43 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon moo bf
15:53:01 <EgoBot> 2 ihope: daemon cat bf
15:53:23 <ihope> EgoBot is slow when parsing its own output :-P
15:55:56 <pikhq> !cat No, I just suck at doing Brainfuck quickly.
15:55:59 <EgoBot> No, I just suck at doing Brainfuck quickly.
15:59:51 <ihope> No, I booch the !cat.
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16:13:51 <EgoBot> 1 ihope: daemon moo bf
16:13:53 <EgoBot> 2 ihope: daemon cat bf
16:14:30 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_x)<1>=/(_x)"Blah"(_o)o.?\]}
16:15:24 <GregorR-W> ihope: But you're not being spammed by it?
16:15:40 <GregorR-W> OK, that's a good thing, I must've just miswrote that prog :P
16:15:47 <EgoBot> BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahB
16:16:01 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_x)<1>=/(_x)"Blah\n"(_o)o.?\]}
16:20:08 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:20:41 -!- EgoBot has joined.
16:20:48 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon moo reload
16:20:50 <EgoBot> 2 EgoBot: daemon cat reload
16:22:36 <pgimeno> don't do what? !glass {M[m(_o)O!(_x)<1>=/(_x)"Blah\n"(_o)o.?\]} ?
16:23:14 <GregorR-W> It just repeats Blah indefinitely. I don't know why that caused EgoBot to spin, but :P
16:24:20 <ihope> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Blah\n"(_o)o.?\]
16:36:17 -!- kipple has joined.
16:36:40 <pikhq> !glass {M[maI!bO!cA!dae.?<1>c(ne).?=/dac.?bo.?dae.?<1>c(ne).?=\]}
16:47:30 -!- kipple has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC").
17:20:52 -!- Razor-X has left (?).
17:21:03 -!- Razor-X has joined.
17:22:38 <GregorR-W> That's a curious way to flush the buffer.
17:23:02 <Razor-X> But it's the only way in ERC.
17:23:35 <Razor-X> C-l zooms to the current line without a prefix.
17:23:52 <Razor-X> No, C-k is to add a line to the kill ring.
17:24:05 <Razor-X> I can maybe code something in to clear the screen, but eh :P.
17:24:15 <pikhq> Oh, it won't actually kill the line for you in ERC?
17:24:40 <Razor-X> I use it pretty often just in normal IRCing.
17:24:45 <pikhq> Razor-X: Try some creative usage of elisp.
17:25:08 <Razor-X> I can, it should be pretty easy.
17:25:12 <GregorR-W> I vote "not severe enough to justify coding a solution"
17:25:34 * pikhq would write it for you if he knew more elisp then what's necessary to use M-x foo effectively
17:46:54 <Razor-X> Midsummer Night's Dream says I.
17:50:50 <ihope> I seems like an odd thing for Midsummer Night's Dream to say.
17:52:39 <Razor-X> Nope. Midsummer Night's Dream likes saying odd things so it's perfectly normal.
17:55:31 <lament> Razor-X: but then it's not odd, it's normal
17:55:36 <lament> Razor-X: so it's an odd thing for it to say...
17:59:02 <ihope> Midsummer Night's Dream says both odd things and normal things.
17:59:14 <ihope> Since odd things aren't odd, everything's normal.
18:15:27 -!- GregorR-W has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:16:31 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
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18:44:11 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:23:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:25:59 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"I eat babies!"(_o)o.?]}
20:33:23 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon moo reload
20:33:25 <EgoBot> 2 EgoBot: daemon cat reload
20:33:34 <pikhq> !cat Mmm. Babiers.
20:33:53 <EgoBot> Use: daemon <daemon> <daemon-command> Function: start a daemon process.
20:36:20 <Razor-X> !daemon halfdeadcat {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
20:36:35 <Razor-X> !halfdeadcat What jew 'bout?!\n
20:38:47 <Razor-X> !daemon halfdeadcat glass {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
20:39:03 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
20:41:52 <Razor-X> Oh, it doesen't need a newline, huh?
20:42:06 <pikhq> !halfdeadcat {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
20:42:27 <Razor-X> !halfdeadcat Yay! I don't need no stinkin' newlines!
20:42:45 <Razor-X> .... I think pikhq broke EgoBot again.
20:56:00 <pikhq> Killing EgoBot has become an art.
20:56:34 <Razor-X> It's not art if it's so simple.
20:58:46 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
21:04:48 <pikhq> But doing it so spectacularly is.
21:05:08 <pikhq> (he patched it so !ps and !kill would still work if the rest of the bot shut down)
22:03:54 <Razor-X> Obviously we're beating him to it.
22:33:44 -!- {^Raven^} has quit ("Leaving").
22:53:59 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:54:16 -!- EgoBot has joined.
22:55:22 <Razor-X> So, how many times has EgoBot been broken in the last week?
22:55:36 <Razor-X> !daemon halfdeadcat glass {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
22:55:45 -!- EgoBot has quit (Success).
22:56:15 -!- EgoBot has joined.
22:56:23 <Razor-X> !daemon halfdeadcat glass {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
22:57:05 <GregorR-W> Having a daemon that doesn't loop is sort of silly :P
22:57:30 <Razor-X> Feh. I'm too lazy to look at while loops again.
22:58:11 -!- EgoBot has quit (Success).
22:58:31 <Razor-X> Awesome! I can make EgoBot quit!
22:58:41 -!- EgoBot has joined.
22:58:52 <Razor-X> Smashing the EgoBot for Fun and Profit.
22:59:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:59:47 -!- EgoBot has quit (Success).
23:00:10 <ihope> Now we know where the bug is...
23:00:17 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:00:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:00:58 <ihope> It doesn't make daemons that stop running invalid commands.
23:00:59 <Razor-X> !daemon halfdeadcat glass {M[m(_>)I!(_o)O!(_>)l.?(_o)o.?]}
23:01:11 -!- EgoBot has quit (Success).
23:01:30 <Razor-X> Well, the HalfDeadCat seems to crash EgoBot well and good.
23:01:42 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:01:42 -!- EgoBot has quit (Connection reset by peer).
23:01:44 <Razor-X> Let's call it the Half-Dead Cat bug out of sheer legacy!
23:02:03 <GregorR-W> That's it guys, you've lost EgoBot priveleges.
23:02:14 * ihope bribes GregorR-W with cookies
23:02:18 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:02:47 <Razor-X> That's because it doesen't WANT to leave.
23:02:55 <Razor-X> Don't force it to do something it doesen't want to.
23:03:30 <Razor-X> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Don't make me LEAVE!!!"(_o)o.?]}
23:03:34 <EgoBot> Don't make me LEAVE!!!
23:03:40 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:04:03 <Razor-X> It's not nice to hit a girl.
23:04:20 * ihope pokes Razor-X instead
23:04:55 <ihope> Because it's not nice to hit a girl, but I want to do something to indicate disapproval :-P
23:05:15 <Razor-X> EgoBot didn't want to leave!
23:05:25 <ihope> Well, it wasn't actually your fault, but it looked like it was.
23:05:52 * Razor-X frowns into her imaginary winecup.
23:09:09 <Razor-X> What is the channel without EgoBot! Woebegone! Our souls cry out unto the last harmony, the winds chime with a dull softness of loss and twangs of pain haunt its eeiry glum!
23:09:31 <pikhq> Razor-X: Write mailman and phone, so we can have ORKbot.
23:09:55 <Razor-X> Or someone else can compile EgoBot and put 'im here.