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02:20:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:Onecompiler stdin.png]]": OneCompiler's stdin box, as opposed to interactive consoles
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08:19:50 <wib_jonas> "you need something like call/cc to interact with the world outside the stack" => I was thinking about this because of Consumer Society, and what I figured that you can restrict the system interaction functions to work only when the data stack is empty, or when the call stack is empty, or even both, but in the latter two cases the system
08:19:50 <wib_jonas> interaction functions need to use continuation passing style so they can call back to your code after they're done, sort of like in Haskell IO. but I don't know how much of that applies to Underload.
08:24:54 <wib_jonas> the problem is that if you want something like Haskell IO, your code effectively returns an algebraic data type that tells what system function to call, plus its arguments including one or more continuation arguments. but if you want to do that in something like pure untyped lambda calculus, then you'd represent the algebraic data type with a
08:24:55 <wib_jonas> simple function (a Church-encoding or whatever it's called), and then that function has the potential to run your code in the system's space.
08:25:21 <wib_jonas> Underload would be similar but worse, because you can mess with the data stack
08:27:31 <wib_jonas> admittedly this is sort of a problem with Consumer Society too, you have to make your code behave properly or else it can mess up the system
08:57:40 <wib_jonas> uh, I think I've replied to some old messages from the log
09:18:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CanonNi * New user account
09:19:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164232&oldid=164203 * CanonNi * (+195) hi
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10:46:59 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164233&oldid=164217 * HungKhanh0106 * (+0) /* Batchfile interpreters */ changed link for own impl
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11:41:27 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164234&oldid=164223 * I am islptng * (+678)
11:52:22 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164235&oldid=164234 * I am islptng * (+515)
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14:43:10 <ais523> <wib_jonas> uh, I think I've replied to some old messages from the log ← I think that too, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing – I can remember enough of the old conversation for it to be reasonable to continue it
14:43:24 <ais523> (although I guess the ideal would be to link to the previous part of the conversation so that people can refresh their memory)
14:52:15 <ais523> the logs are linked from the topic but I don't think we have a bot that reads them
14:52:48 <bongino> i mean. it certainly is expandable.
14:52:48 <ais523> HackEgo used to be able to read them a long time ago but I think that changed for some reason, I'm not sure if its replacement HackEso was ever updated to do that
14:54:39 <bongino> hm. but the website logs still work. one could link from/to website in case of teambacklogging event :p
14:57:25 <HackEso> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr
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15:35:52 <HackEso> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'ls --help' for more information.
15:36:11 <HackEso> ls: cannot access '~/': No such file or directory
15:36:19 <HackEso> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try 'ls --help' for more information.
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15:42:22 <HackEso> `ls? No such file or directory
15:42:29 <HackEso> total 24 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4096 Jul 1 2024 bin \ drwxr-xr-x 7 0 0 440 Jul 1 2024 dev \ drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 0 Sep 1 15:42 etc \ drwxr-xr-x 22 1000 1000 4096 Dec 11 2021 hackenv \ drwxr-xr-x 10 0 0 4096 Nov 17 2019 lib \ drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4096 Jul 1 2024 lib64 \ dr-xr-xr-x 34 0 0 0 Sep 1 15:42 proc \ drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 4096 Jul 1 2024 sbin \ dr-xr-xr-x 11 0 0 0 Sep 1 15:42 sys \ drwxrwxrw
15:42:36 <ais523> there we go, that's how you give commands multiple arguments
15:46:12 <HackEso> 🌱* \ 3 \ a.o \ a.out* \ asmbf-1.2.7/ \ banana.txt \ bef2* \ bfi* \ bin/ \ Burlesque/ \ canary \ cmd.whatis \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ detect* \ detect.c \ egel-master/ \ egel-scripts/ \ egel.zip \ eGtbSgN68aHU \ fence.c \ foo \ he-ng.7z \ he-ng.7z.base64 \ he-ngc* \ he-ngx* \ hlu* \ JoaoDir/ \ just \ karma \ le@ \ nonoodl* \ olist.new* \ output.b \ paste/ \ pd* \ pd.c \ perlV \ pg* \ pg.cxx \ pikhqbow_tst* \ program* \ -.s \ spline \ spout \ sra* \ sr
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15:57:20 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is Myosotis.
15:57:24 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is Myosotis.
15:58:42 <ais523> I'm still not entirely sure why we even have a password of the month
15:59:35 <int-e> It's traditional. :P
16:01:08 <int-e> also, these days, a test whether HackEso's repo functionality still works
16:01:12 <int-e> because it's hardly used
16:01:38 <int-e> Anyway. It serves no real purpose, it really is just something we've mostly kept up for the past 10 years.
16:03:37 <int-e> where "we" is mostly b_jonas and I these days; oerjan and shachaf were prolific potm-ers earlier on.
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16:30:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * * New user account
16:38:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164236&oldid=164232 * * (+310)
16:39:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164237&oldid=164236 * * (+0)
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17:09:17 <b_jonas> oh yeah, I meant to change that
17:10:23 <b_jonas> I'm stupid, I always forget
17:10:52 <b_jonas> I even checked tom7's blog (radar), which is the other thing I want to do on the internet at the start of each month
17:11:39 <HackEso> #esoteric channel logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/
17:13:47 <b_jonas> well there are large gaps when nobody changed the password, but sure, "mostly kept up" is probably right
17:14:32 <int-e> b_jonas: you might actually get a small giggle out of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myosotis (unless you know what that is)
17:23:32 <shachaf> int-e: whoa, it's the password of the month!
17:23:55 <shachaf> I don't look at IRC nearly as much these days.
17:25:03 <int-e> that seems to happen a lot
17:27:23 <shachaf> I'm on the other side of the Atlantic now, though. Maybe that puts me in the channel's time zone.
17:40:27 <ais523> `as-encoding jrcxz 1f; 1f: nop
17:40:29 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character is `1' \ {standard input}: Error: local label `"1" (instance number 1 of a fb label)' is not defined
17:40:42 <ais523> `as-encoding jrcxz 1f; 1: nop
17:40:44 <HackEso> e3 00: jrcxz 0x2 \ 90: nop
17:41:17 <ais523> `as-encoding jecxz 1f; 1: nop
17:41:18 <HackEso> 67 e3 00: jecxz 0x3 \ 90: nop
17:41:36 <ais523> hmm, weird use of prefixes
17:41:38 <ais523> `as-encoding jcxz 1f; 1: nop
17:41:39 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: `jcxz' is not supported in 64-bit mode
17:41:57 <ais523> it would have been too silly for that one to work with a 66 prefix…
17:57:31 <int-e> yeah, "not encodable" according to Intel
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18:02:59 <int-e> Hmm, it is interesting that it uses the address size prefix.
18:05:19 <ais523> if it used the data size prefix the default size would be 32, with prefixes for 64 and 16
18:06:03 <ais523> I guess AMD wanted the default to be 64 so they used the address size logic?
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18:11:48 <int-e> ais523: Well, the choice was made by intel when they added the 32 bit mode with i386. I guess they wanted the default to be 32 bits in 32 bit mode.
18:12:26 <int-e> intel could've picked either prefix at the time, it was arbitrary
18:12:38 <ais523> ah right, a 67 prefix in 32-bit code means a 16-bit cx?
18:13:49 <int-e> AMD could've picked a different prefix for 64 bit mode but it makes sense that they didn't
18:14:02 <ais523> right, they probably want to reuse the decoder circuit
18:14:12 <int-e> it's not like jrcxz is even used much.
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18:15:51 <ais523> right – Intel suggest that it can be used at the start of a loop to skip past the end if the iteration count is 0
18:16:34 <ais523> but I think most modern compilers don't even bother trying to put the count into cx (perhaps they might use the instruction if it happens to be in cx naturally though?)
18:18:29 <int-e> What's the current state of these instructions (jcxz/loop*) being microcoded?
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18:21:36 <ais523> I believe jrcxz is fast but loop is microcoded
18:22:28 <ais523> and the reason is that if loop pagefaults on loading in the jump target, the processor doesn't have an easy way to rewind the decrement of rcx, and yet it has to rewind the decrement so that the instruction can be retried after paging the jump target in
18:22:54 <ais523> dec rcx; jnz doesn't have that problem because it can just leave the IP between the dec and the jnz, even though it parses it as a single instruction
18:25:38 <int-e> apparently the answer is... fast on AMD, slow on Intel, though j*cxz is only 2 micro-ops compared to 7 for loop and over 10 for loop(n)e
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18:26:25 <int-e> dec rcx interferes with adcx/adox
18:30:25 <int-e> (source: Agner's latency table from https://www.agner.org/optimize/)
18:39:00 <int-e> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35742570/why-is-the-loop-instruction-slow-couldnt-intel-have-implemented-it-efficiently is interesting too.
18:48:45 <esolangs> [[Che]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164238&oldid=122359 * Cameron * (+30) Made an interpreter
18:49:17 <esolangs> [[Che]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164239&oldid=164238 * Cameron * (-2) Messed up formatting
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18:50:36 <esolangs> [[Che]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164240&oldid=164239 * Cameron * (-2) Added correct tag
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19:57:45 <b_jonas> "pagefaults on loading in the jump target" => sorry what? it's always a short jump with the relative offset in the instruction itself. there's no variant where the jump target is loaded from memory.
19:59:08 <b_jonas> I can believe that it's a slow instruction, but not because of that
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20:16:39 <int-e> b_jonas: Yeah, I don't understand that either; those faults would occur when trying to fetch the next instruction after the `loop` has completed and the instruction pointer has been updated.
20:16:41 <ais523> b_jonas: the page containing the code that you're trying to might have been paged out
20:17:39 <ais523> maybe I was misinformed, or maybe there's a reason the processor couldn't jump and then subsequently fault
20:18:27 <int-e> Or does the GP actually happen *before* IP is updated?
20:18:41 <ais523> the documentation says that there's a #GP if the jump target is an impossible address, but doesn't specify a #PF if it's paged out
20:18:47 <int-e> (LOOP is actually documented to be able to cause a #GP)
20:19:15 <ais523> oh, I was looking at JRCXZ
20:19:42 <int-e> But that *shouldn't* cause an issue either; the limits in question are all available right away, while LOOP executes.
20:19:49 <ais523> but LOOP is the same, #GP if the address is not of a valid form for a code pointer, such as being above the last legal virtual address
20:20:31 <ais523> but that's different from a #PF
20:21:32 <int-e> What else is there... hardware interrupts? Surely those can wait until after the instruction is done.
20:22:41 <int-e> TBF, the #GP issue is thorny enough; it means you can't simply treat this as decrement CX followed by a conditional jump internally.
20:23:01 <ais523> the first answer on the page you linked earlier implies that after a successful jump and subsequent #PF, the processor doesn't know whether cx has already been incremented or not
20:23:14 <ais523> presumably some sort of race condition due to all the pipelining
20:23:35 <int-e> I think the #PF claim is bogus.
20:24:02 <int-e> Or maybe specific to whatever i386 did to handle the related GP issue.
20:24:33 <ais523> the second answer claims they made it slow intentionally, and speculates about the reasons
20:25:17 <int-e> The co-evolution of ISA and compilers that is also mentioned is certainly is a factor.
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20:33:30 <HackEso> cat: bin/as-encoding: No such file or directory
20:34:15 <shachaf> `as-encoding jrcxz 1f; 1: nop
20:34:17 <HackEso> e3 00: jrcxz 0x2 \ 90: nop
20:34:20 <HackEso> 0: e3 00 jrcxz 0x2 \ 2: 90 nop
20:39:00 <ais523> `as-encoding xchg eax, eax
20:39:02 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: too many memory references for `xchg'
20:39:15 <ais523> `as-encoding xchg %eax, %eax
20:39:43 <ais523> …now I'm wondering whether or not that's the most efficient way to zero the top half of %rax
20:39:47 <int-e> Heh, that Intel erratum is also weird. Notably... one of the cases where the contents of CX was supposedly unreliable was a `PUSH` instruction that underflows the stack segment.
20:40:24 <int-e> Rather than, you know, something with a `rep` prefix which would be far more understandable. Or, well, loop*.
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20:41:16 <int-e> (It could be the instruction following one of those tricky instructions of course. But it is weird.)
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20:43:37 <int-e> Oh there's also a comment saying that if you follow the pseudo-code of the LOOP* instructions, *CX is decremented unconditionally, even when #GP is raised.
20:44:17 <int-e> So the claim is getting more dubious... or well, it points towards intel doing something weird with those instructions.
20:46:12 <ais523> so Linux likes to put the stack near but not at the maximum possible usermode address – that means that the #GP should be testable by mapping the highest usermode address and trying to jump into the noncanonical space above
20:46:26 <ais523> but I'm not immediately sure how you'd determine what happened to cx, upon catching the segfault
20:47:43 <ais523> I guess you could run it in gdb (which I assume is able to look at noncanonical pointers without crashing)
20:48:09 <int-e> how much info can you extract with libsigsegv, hmm
20:50:43 <ais523> also I'm not immediately sure whether this would be sigsegv or sigbus – I never really understood the distinction
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20:58:20 <int-e> It appears that Linux doesn't allow us to map that particular page.
20:59:31 <int-e> this works fine, mmap((void *)(0x800000000000ULL - 0x2000), 0x1000, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE | MAP_ANON | MAP_FIXED, -1, 0) but not when the 0x2000 is replaced by 0x1000
21:00:36 <ais523> and you can't get any nearer than 4096 bytes due to the page size
21:00:51 <ais523> what about if you change the config setting that normally prevents you mmapping over null?
21:01:14 <ais523> /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr
21:04:47 <ais523> unfortunately it isn't documented in the manpages, and I don't want to decompress the kernel source to check there
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21:05:06 <int-e> ais523: still denied
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21:06:26 <ais523> I wonder what the motivation for making that page unmappable is? unlike page 0, I can't immediately think of a security reason
21:06:56 <int-e> Though if we can put code at 0 and do a backwards `loop`... hmmm
21:07:34 <ais523> (IIRC the primary but not only reason you can't mmap page 0 is to ensure a #PF if the kernel tries to dereference a null pointer – presumably SMAP would catch most cases of that nowadays but the ban on low mmap is probably older)
21:07:49 <ais523> all-bits-1 is a valid address, though
21:08:13 <ais523> it's a kernel address so you can't normally access it from userspace but that doesn't fit the description of #GP in the docs
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21:23:22 <ais523> huh, apparently some x86-64s have matrix registers in addition to vector registers, now
21:23:41 <ais523> although they don't do much yet except for matrix multiplication and addition
21:24:31 <b_jonas> ais523: I think the problem is only that an instruction that both outputs to a (non-eflags) register and can jump is unusual so the pipeline isn't built to handle it. both outputting to a register and jumping are tricky super-optimized things that the pipeline handles in a complicated way, and has to be able to roll back when eg. a speculative jump fails, and the register renamer or jump handler just
21:24:37 <b_jonas> isn't built to handle this combo easily
21:25:12 <ais523> b_jonas: call/ret both jump and change rsp
21:25:20 <ais523> but I guess they're probably special-cased
21:26:34 <b_jonas> "change the config setting that normally prevents you mmapping […] /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" => don't change that in /proc , there's a per-process setting for it
21:27:39 <ais523> ah, setarch --mmap-page-zero
21:28:01 <ais523> that automatically maps read-only zeros over null, which is not what we want
21:28:05 <b_jonas> though I'm not sure that still exist on x86_64; it's mostly for x86_32 running virtual 8086 mode
21:28:46 <ais523> it had a very promising name though!
21:29:17 <ais523> I can't see another similar setting in setarch or personality
21:30:51 <ais523> nope, can't see it there either
21:30:54 <int-e> b_jonas: meh it seemed okay to change on a single-user machine for the purpose of an experiment
21:31:01 <int-e> I changed it back, of course
21:36:53 <b_jonas> int-e: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/capabilities.7.html CAP_SYS_RAWIO capability lets processes create memory mappings at addresses below the value specified by /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr
21:37:20 <b_jonas> or if you don't like that then create a non-root process that keeps that capability
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21:39:21 <int-e> and still no luck at 0x7ffffffff000
21:43:49 <ais523> I wonder whether maybe there's some technical limitation against mapping that address
21:44:23 <ais523> but I wouldn't expect it, given that there are plenty of other sentinel values to use, and some recent x86-64 processors on which the address is a valid normal address because there are 57 rather than 48 address bits
21:57:49 <b_jonas> I think it's just a conservative choice as an additional layer of protection against kernel bugs that would handle a zero address wrong, since zero is a convenient sentinel value even for pointers to userspace for the kernel, and in fact it's used as a special value in lots of user-facing interfaces of the kernel too
21:58:58 <b_jonas> ok, maybe that last part isn't true
21:59:35 <b_jonas> I think it's not used as a sentinel value in kernel-user interfaces, only within kernel land and within userland
22:00:37 <b_jonas> mmap without MMAP_FIXED in the flags argument takes the first argument as a hint for where to place the mapping when it's nonzero
22:09:36 <ais523> but that doesn't use 0x7ffffffff000 as a sentinel
22:09:37 <int-e> ais523: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/admin-guide/hw-vuln/rsb.rst ...this is about preventing having a call instruction at the very end of the canonical user address space, which would put a non-canonical address into the return stack buffer
22:10:07 <int-e> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/arch/x86/x86_64/mm.rst calls it a "guard page"
22:10:36 <int-e> (well, the second one is hard to misunderstand)
22:13:18 <ais523> that said, it isn't immediately clear to me why a non-canonical address in the RSB would be vulnerable
22:13:28 <ais523> it isn't like an attacker can control memory there!
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22:15:26 <ais523> maybe the issue is that the address wraps to a valid address
22:15:30 <int-e> ais523: but an attacker can control memory at 0x0
22:16:04 <int-e> yeah, some sort of wrapping would be my guess
22:16:20 <int-e> anyway, I'm not going to dig further, this is good enough for me :)
22:16:53 <int-e> (digging further would mean finding the commits surrounding this and then the accompanying LKML discussions)
22:17:54 <ais523> when you're in a guard hole, stop digging?
22:18:09 <int-e> that does sound like good advice.
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00:36:59 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164241&oldid=152599 * GUAqwq * (+109) /* Python */
00:37:20 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164242&oldid=164241 * GUAqwq * (+0) /* Python */ typo-fix :C
00:56:46 <esolangs> [[Idiomorph]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164243 * RainbowDash * (+1530) Make this
00:59:08 <esolangs> [[Idiomorph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164244&oldid=164243 * RainbowDash * (+103) Footer
01:04:14 <esolangs> [[Idiomorph]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164245&oldid=164244 * RainbowDash * (+77) I mean I guess
01:06:28 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164246&oldid=163063 * RainbowDash * (+123) My stuff
01:54:42 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/15]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164247&oldid=91339 * GUAqwq * (+346) /* Implementations */ Python version provided
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02:30:55 <esolangs> [[Merriment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164248&oldid=164095 * AlephSquirrel * (+88) Rewrite
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03:18:15 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/15]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164249&oldid=164247 * GUAqwq * (+2) /* Python */
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07:56:08 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/25]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164250&oldid=116539 * GUAqwq * (+151) The content of Problem 25 was mis-written.
07:58:55 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/25]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164251&oldid=164250 * GUAqwq * (+109) /* Python */
08:09:56 <esolangs> [[Project Euler/25]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164252&oldid=164251 * GUAqwq * (+128) /* Pyline */
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09:32:12 <esolangs> [[Dumb BittyFish9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164253 * * (+1581) Created page with "{{wip}} {{stub}} '''[[Dumb BittyFish9+]]''' is [[esoteric programming language]] which have many languages in one ==Language overview== Dumb BittyFish9+ combines [[Dumbascii-2]], [[BittyLang]], [[Deadfish]], [[HQ9+]], and [[t a b]], adding commands and . ==Commands==
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11:45:33 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164254&oldid=164235 * I am islptng * (-1311)
11:46:27 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164255&oldid=164254 * I am islptng * (+8)
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11:50:31 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164256&oldid=164255 * I am islptng * (-53)
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14:17:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:JAYSON]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164257 * MijiGamin1 * (+119) Created page with "Generated by AI but not even a compiler to go along with it??? Are you that devoid of creativity?? -[[User:MijiGamin1]]"
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14:31:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mouse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164258 * MijiGamin1 * (+145) /* Newline */ new section
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16:15:32 <esolangs> [[Subleq extra]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164259&oldid=162821 * Ilikeundertale * (-2) removed weird unicode symbol i had inserted before after seeing a unicode symbol table and just inserted it for fun
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16:23:32 <esolangs> [[Dumb BittyFish9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164260&oldid=164253 * * (+292) /* Language overview */
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16:52:38 <esolangs> [[User:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164261 * * (+499) Created page with "Hi. I'm newbie and inexperienced on esolangs.org. {| width="100%" style="border-spacing: 1em; padding: 0 0.25em; clear: both" cellpadding="0" |- valign="top" {{layout box|bg=#CEB|title=Languages List| :1:[[Dumb BittyFish9+]] ::::Combination of other esolangs for output adding ow
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18:57:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mouse]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164262&oldid=164258 * Ractangle * (+192)
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21:15:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mouse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164263&oldid=164262 * Salpynx * (+368) /* Newline */ exclamation prints a newline in Mouse
21:33:50 <esolangs> [[User:Jan jelo/FizzBuzz in Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164264&oldid=150222 * Jan jelo * (+0)
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23:14:51 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164265 * RobinsAviary * (+1299) Create page
23:16:09 <esolangs> [[User:RobinsAviary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164266&oldid=158352 * RobinsAviary * (+40)
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02:11:07 <esolangs> [[Idiomorph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164267&oldid=164245 * RainbowDash * (+174) note
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04:58:39 <zzo38> How much can a random number generator be improved if you have multiple states which you switch between, and XOR the results of one with parts of the state of the next one? (Can it be improved at all this way, or made worse? Maybe this would depend on the seed?)
05:18:24 <zzo38> I expect this does not improve the period very much, although it might not be mainly the period that you care about. However, maybe there are ways to improve it, hopefully without being too slowly
05:29:33 <zzo38> O, it might help if the periods of the original ones are distinct prime numbers
05:32:21 <zzo38> (Although, that is a different method than I described above)
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06:55:03 <strerror_r> zzo38: it could be worse due to correlations between the sub-states. For a trivial example, imagine xor-ing two identical generators together.
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08:11:38 <esolangs> [[Idiomorph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164268&oldid=164267 * TJC games * (+45) This would have errored, so I just patched it up ^w^
08:16:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Jan jelo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164269&oldid=150712 * TJC games * (+115) /* toki pona wawa */ new section
08:16:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:Jan jelo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164270&oldid=164269 * TJC games * (+3)
08:21:52 <esolangs> [[Unismall]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164271 * * (+711) Created page with "{{wip}} {{lowercase}} :''Name "unismall" writes in lowercase, excluding start of proposal '' Unismall is the same [[small]], but commands is hard unicode characters. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command !Description |- | style="text-align:center"| <code></code> (U+12
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12:29:40 <zemhill> web.takwin-yuzbasi: points -9.24, score 14.00, rank 43/47
13:22:41 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164272&oldid=164216 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-13) /* Turing-completness Proofs */
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16:06:32 <esolangs> [[By+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164273&oldid=155031 * Catto.4 * (+588) added and changed some stuff
16:14:33 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164274&oldid=164272 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+11) /* 2025 */
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17:43:43 <zzo38> strerror: I expected it might be (which is why I mentioned it might be worse), but I was going to XOR the bits that would not otherwise be used with the other bits of the generator that are the ones normally used, anyways.
17:58:56 <esolangs> [[BrainIf Turing-completeness proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164275 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3086) Created page with ":{{Back|BrainIf}} It can be shown that BrainIf is [[Turing-complete]] by translating [[Cyclic tag system]] into the language. This construction is itself based on [[brainfuck minus -]] proof due to inability to decrement the cell. Only
18:00:50 <esolangs> [[BrainIf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164276&oldid=84469 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+51)
18:01:25 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164277&oldid=164274 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+13) /* Turing-completness Proofs */
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19:13:37 <esolangs> [[THE ROARING KNIGHT CHALLENGES YOU TO A DUEL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164278 * Tommyaweosme * (+847) Created page with "THE ROARING KNIGHT CHALLENGES YOU TO A DUEL is an esolang where the Roaring Knight of deltarune challenges you to a duel. Kris's HP, Susie's HP, Ralsei's HP, and the Roaring Knight's HP are all variables with unlimited values. K
19:14:15 <esolangs> [[THE ROARING KNIGHT CHALLENGES YOU TO A DUEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164279&oldid=164278 * Tommyaweosme * (+93) /* Commands */
19:19:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * MijiGamin1 * moved [[Knife]] to [[Talk:Youraveragemanguy]]: Not an esolang, I don't know how to delete pages
20:38:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ractangle * moved [[Talk:Youraveragemanguy]] to [[Knife]] over redirect: Revert, this is classified as a joke language
20:38:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Ractangle * Ractangle deleted redirect [[Knife]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Youraveragemanguy]]"
20:38:57 <esolangs> [[Knife]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164284&oldid=164282 * Ractangle * (+27)
21:52:28 <esolangs> [[User:MijiGamin1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164285&oldid=162505 * MijiGamin1 * (+5) i seem to have gotten the name of the language wrong
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00:24:21 <strerror> zzo38: often RNGs don't output certain state bits because they are correlated with the output bits, so outputting them, even mixed with another RNG, might reintroduce the correlations
00:25:49 <strerror> (Some RNGs don't output bits to make it harder to reveal the internal state, mixing them back into the output may also reduce that security)
00:31:10 <strerror> Some ways of doing this might be safe, if they pass statistical tests like Diehard
00:55:58 <zzo38> Yes, I knew of that too, so it might be necessary to be careful of it. (However, for this use, cryptographic random numbers are not needed, although it should still be statistical good enough.)
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05:08:54 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164286&oldid=156404 * None1 * (+36)
05:22:46 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164287&oldid=164286 * None1 * (+64)
05:23:09 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164288&oldid=164287 * None1 * (+6) /* Interpreter */
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13:42:24 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164289&oldid=164256 * I am islptng * (+739)
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15:07:20 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164290&oldid=164289 * I am islptng * (+953)
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15:49:32 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164291&oldid=163242 * I am islptng * (+83)
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17:51:53 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/12]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164292&oldid=163342 * Hotcrystal0 * (+11)
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18:30:03 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164293&oldid=164265 * RobinsAviary * (+21)
18:30:20 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164294&oldid=164293 * RobinsAviary * (+25)
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18:41:11 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164295&oldid=164294 * RobinsAviary * (-83)
18:51:41 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164296&oldid=164295 * RobinsAviary * (+34)
19:04:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:Jan jelo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164297&oldid=164270 * Jan jelo * (+9) /* toki pona li pona */
19:13:16 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164298&oldid=164296 * RobinsAviary * (+1011)
19:41:14 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164299&oldid=164298 * RobinsAviary * (+97)
19:44:32 <esolangs> [[Recs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164300&oldid=151726 * Jan jelo * (+1)
19:44:49 <esolangs> [[Deadfih]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164301&oldid=154170 * RobinsAviary * (+6)
19:47:05 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164302&oldid=164299 * RobinsAviary * (+63)
19:48:30 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164303&oldid=163865 * RobinsAviary * (+115) /* Variants of deadfish */
19:48:46 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164304&oldid=164303 * RobinsAviary * (-6) /* Variants of deadfish */
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20:03:40 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164305&oldid=164302 * RobinsAviary * (+136) /* Commands */
20:04:14 <esolangs> [[Robinfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164306&oldid=164305 * RobinsAviary * (+35) /* Example Programs */
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23:17:03 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164307 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+759) Created page with "Codeglass is an esolang where all variables measure the run time of the program (you can reset them though) (note: all variables start at 0 and do not increase until reset (apart from #() that starts by runing)) (note: no numbers can be used inside the
23:17:32 <esolangs> [[LPTA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164308&oldid=164290 * PkmnQ * (+22) /* Unary Addition */
23:21:33 <esolangs> [[User:HyperbolicireworksPen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164309&oldid=163550 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+15) /* Esolangs */
23:22:52 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164310&oldid=164307 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+85)
23:24:50 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164311&oldid=164310 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+0)
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23:42:04 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164312&oldid=164311 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+458)
23:51:08 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164313&oldid=164312 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+155)
00:07:31 <zzo38> I read that if a program requires X time then it should require sqrt(X) memory.
00:12:36 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code/Topple 1.0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164314&oldid=163809 * H33T33 * (+81)
00:19:49 <korvo> The recent results from Ryan Williams?
00:25:05 <zzo38> I forget what was their name; I mentioned the part that I remembered.
00:27:16 <korvo> No worries. Yeah, it's a big deal. The resulting program is *not* fast, so it's not something we'd practically use, but it's very cool.
00:30:54 <zzo38> I had made up a cryptographic hash algorithm some time before I read that, which has a similar property; the time requirement is the product of the input size and output size, and the memory requirement is either size (whichever one is known ahead of time), so if the input and output sizes are equal then it will be similar.
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02:10:05 <salpynx> !ztest nana_returns (-)*23>(+)*11(>>(-)*5>[-[-[(+)*9[-]>]]>](-)*23)*-1
02:10:05 <zemhill> salpynx.nana_returns: points -3.62, score 17.98, rank 24/47
02:10:48 <salpynx> !zjoust nana_returns (-)*23>(+)*11(>>(-)*5>[-[-[(+)*9[-]>]]>](-)*23)*-1
02:10:49 <zemhill> salpynx.nana_returns: points -3.62, score 17.98, rank 24/47
02:11:56 <salpynx> !ztest nana_original (-)*13>>(+)*21(>>[-[-.[(+)*21[-]>]]+>+](-)*21)*13[>[-]]
02:11:56 <zemhill> salpynx.nana_original: points -6.62, score 14.48, rank 43/47
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02:24:28 <esolangs> [[5MAT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164315&oldid=160477 * Kg583 * (+0) Fix initialization example
04:19:35 <zemhill> web.toodles: points -0.60, score 20.75, rank 19/47
04:51:35 <zemhill> web.toodles: points -0.60, score 20.75, rank 19/47 (--)
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05:27:09 <esolangs> [[Bespoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164316&oldid=150322 * OliveIsAWord * (+2) change comment mnemonic TERMINATE to be 10 letters
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06:15:20 <korvo> Double-checking https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44406171 for insights and getting frustrated with folks confidently misunderstanding BB relative to ZFC.
06:16:53 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
06:16:53 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 18.90, score 50.30, rank 2/47 (--)
06:17:05 <ais523> (thank you to all my BF Joust opponents for helping to find bugs in two_thirds)
06:17:22 <korvo> In *any* language of arithmetic, a statement like "BB(k) = n" is formally encoded as something like "every k-state TM that is not stuck after n+1 steps will never be stuck", or "for all k-state TMs: if the TM isn't stuck after n+1 steps then it never sticks". It's a universally-quantified implication, *not* an expansion of some arithmetic. BB is explicitly *not* a computation.
06:17:52 <korvo> Oh hey, BF joust~ Instantly brightening up my day. Or darkening down my night, whatever.
06:21:15 <ais523> hmm, there's an interesting philosophical point here in that once you've proven that all the non-terminating programs don't terminate, BB *becomes* a computation
06:21:55 <ais523> or, well, it's basically a halting oracle + a computation run over the programs that halt – e.g. the reason we know BB(5) is that we have a halting oracle for it
06:22:34 <ais523> BB(6) is interesting in that it is very likely that the value of BB(6) is beyond the range of what current computers can calculate naively, so we will need to invent some sort of compressed way to do the computation
06:24:58 <korvo> Sure. "for all k-state TMs" is exponential but finite in k. So the part that defies computation is the proof that they all fail to stick. Or, as constructed by the community, we have constructed an explicit machine which definitely doesn't have a proof of halting, and it in fact doesn't halt assuming SRP or ZFC or etc is consistent.
06:25:57 <korvo> This is where a fear of Erdös shows up. What if we literally don't have the axioms for Collatz, and thus don't have the axioms to prove that every 6- or 7-state TM (doesn't) halt? This could still be the case!
06:34:38 <ais523> oh, of course, there's definitely a point at which it becomes uncomputable
06:34:41 <ais523> we just don't know where it is yet
06:35:22 <ais523> at least, we don't know the exact location (we have upper bounds)
06:36:04 <ais523> fwiw, I have a suspicion that consistent Collatz (Feed the Chaos, Antihydra, etc.) where the multipliers are all the same, may be different from general Collatz where the multipliers can be different
06:36:33 <ais523> the latter is TC, the former isn't obviously so and in fact it isn't clear how to distinguish the programs' behaviours from randomness
06:37:53 <korvo> Sure. General Collatz may also still be somewhat algorithmic; Conway's obstruction just means that the final set of equations which generates solutions is TC.
06:38:09 <korvo> Er, *recursive, and solving recursive equations in general is TC.
06:39:23 <korvo> I'd normally dismiss this sort of thing as unevidenced, but there is one trouble that I haven't solved. We don't have a program on *any* machine which halts iff Collatz is true/false.
06:40:13 <korvo> Tao has a footnote somewhere that it's Pi₂, so some sort of tricky algorithm is required to actually check for the Collatz preconditions without leaving any gaps.
06:45:12 <korvo> I wonder whether I can make the Kirby-Paris-Harrington "hydra" game into an interesting machine. That one's independent of PA, IIRC.
06:45:58 <ais523> korvo: oh, you're talking about the specific 3n+1/2 Collatz rather than Collatz in general?
06:46:28 <korvo> ais523: Yeah. Like, the sort of programs that I could use in the BB Gauge. Standardized Collatz.
06:47:23 <ais523> right, we have a sort of double quantifier – if we interpret 3n+1/2 Collatz as a program, we're basically trying to prove that the program halts for all inputs
06:47:38 <ais523> but it's hard to see how you could detemine that by running it on all inputs, because if it doesn't halt on one of them you never find out
06:48:33 <korvo> Yep. We can somewhat rephrase it as a graph-connectivity problem; we can enumerate the nodes and check whether each one's connected. But that check is also semidecidable and might not halt.
06:50:30 <korvo> This isn't like Con(PA) or Con(ETCS), which are straightforward engineering problems. I guess I have one question about Con(ETCS) that I can take to Stack Exchange tomorrow morning.
06:51:27 <ais523> now I'm wondering how to distinguish between the collatz-like things that act like PRNGs and the collatz-like things that don't – it might not be possible
06:51:52 <ais523> but it feels like for Collatz-like problems, PRNG-style behaviour is the "default" and you need to go out of your way to make it act like, e.g., a set of counters
06:53:00 <korvo> Or at least the counters are up in the exponents, like Gödel numbering.
06:55:29 <ais523> well, when there are counters, they're in the exponents
06:55:52 <ais523> but something like Antihydra or canonical-Collatz doesn't obviously have a structure to its counter at all
06:56:35 <korvo> Oh, is Antihydra the one with the (mod 2**k) pattern? I thought it had a lovely pattern. I have a photo from a whiteboard diagram somewhere.
06:57:55 <korvo> Basically the transition diagram can always admit division by another factor of two, making two copies of the diagram which are interlinked in a very satisfying symmetry. The diagram is always extremely balanced in terms of even and odd, and also in terms of behavior (mod 4), and (mod 8), and etc.
06:58:18 <korvo> This makes it really easy to see that it "probviously" is balanced out and can't really have an excess of evens or odds.
06:58:43 <korvo> Nuts, I'm gonna turn back into a pumpkin. Have a good night.
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08:01:41 <wib_jonas> "recent results from Ryan Williams" => specifically https://eccc.weizmann.ac.il/report/2025/017/ , which I heard of from https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8680 . note that the runtime is measured on a multi-tape Turing machine.
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09:18:56 <zemhill> web.takwin-yuzbasi: points -3.90, score 18.01, rank 25/47 (+21)
09:53:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:GUAqwq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164317&oldid=162257 * GUAqwq * (-1845)
10:07:14 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164318 * GUAqwq * (+30) Created page with "[[Category:Works_in_progress]]"
10:09:19 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq/TCproof to Lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164319&oldid=138289 * GUAqwq * (+20)
10:32:17 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164320&oldid=164318 * GUAqwq * (+788)
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11:05:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EnvelopingHedgehog * New user account
11:06:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164322&oldid=164237 * EnvelopingHedgehog * (+112)
11:07:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164323&oldid=164322 * EnvelopingHedgehog * (+117)
11:11:34 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164324&oldid=164321 * GUAqwq * (+702)
11:12:35 <esolangs> [[User:EnvelopingHedgehog]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164325 * EnvelopingHedgehog * (+56) Created page with "Hello! I am a software developer who is also a hedgehog."
11:12:43 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164326&oldid=164324 * GUAqwq * (+8)
11:13:10 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164327&oldid=164326 * GUAqwq * (+31)
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11:27:05 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164328&oldid=164327 * GUAqwq * (+245)
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11:29:50 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164329&oldid=164328 * GUAqwq * (-2) /* Chip */
11:39:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:TrackSpan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164330 * I am islptng * (+158) Created page with ":what inspired you to make it? norworld and quantum circuitry? ~~~~"
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13:22:26 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164331&oldid=164329 * GUAqwq * (+4) /* Chip */
13:39:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:C-Hex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164332&oldid=75227 * MijiGamin1 * (+176) /* Just use GitHub */ new section
13:39:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:C-Hex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164333&oldid=164332 * MijiGamin1 * (+22) /* Just use GitHub */
13:56:41 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164334&oldid=164331 * GUAqwq * (+892) /* Inter-chip cooperation */
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14:10:51 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164335&oldid=164334 * GUAqwq * (+745) /* Inter-chip cooperation */
14:18:59 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164336&oldid=164335 * GUAqwq * (+6) /* Chip */
14:30:39 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164337&oldid=164336 * GUAqwq * (+15) /* Chip */ Trying to fix my grammar ):
14:35:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Boo!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164338 * MijiGamin1 * (+206) /* Interpreter */ new section
14:38:28 <esolangs> [[User:MijiGamin1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164339&oldid=164285 * MijiGamin1 * (+11) added new language
14:39:20 <esolangs> [[Talk:PP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164340&oldid=161339 * MijiGamin1 * (+95) added github link
14:44:21 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164341&oldid=164337 * GUAqwq * (+134) /* Inter-chip cooperation */ Tryna advance my expressions
14:45:06 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164342&oldid=164341 * GUAqwq * (+27) /* Infinite chips */
14:52:22 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164343&oldid=164342 * GUAqwq * (+207) /* Computational class */ my prediction for the computational class. Proofs are on its way~
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15:11:08 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164344&oldid=164343 * GUAqwq * (+351) /* Examples */
15:40:35 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164345&oldid=164344 * GUAqwq * (+490) /* Single run of chip */
15:41:52 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164346&oldid=164345 * GUAqwq * (+5)
15:57:04 <esolangs> [[Eezy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164347 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+763) Created page with "{{Stub}} '''Eezy''' is an esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] based on [[Minsky machine]] that can be easily implemented in other esolangs ==Description== There are two unbounded nonnegative registers, initially zero, and a pointer which points to the first one: +
15:58:23 <esolangs> [[While Pointstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164348&oldid=164212 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+6) /* Computational class */
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17:26:25 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164349&oldid=163889 * Hotcrystal0 * (+289)
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19:23:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bespoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164351&oldid=156406 * Hotcrystal0 * (+428)
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21:58:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ACBLOX * New user account
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22:02:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164352&oldid=164323 * ACBLOX * (+134) added my introduction :)
22:05:33 <esolangs> [[User:ACBLOX]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164353 * ACBLOX * (+41) Created page with "Hi! I'm ACBLOX. I'm here cuz of truttle1."
22:26:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164354&oldid=155075 * ACBLOX * (+554) /* Weird esolang I remember using before */ new section
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23:10:52 <salpynx> !ztest thioate >(-{}>)%9([-[+]]>)*-1
23:10:52 <zemhill> salpynx.thioate: points -4.86, score 16.83, rank 33/47
23:12:34 <salpynx> !zjoust thioate >(-{}>)%9([-[+]]>)*-1
23:12:34 <zemhill> salpynx.thioate: points -4.86, score 16.83, rank 33/47
23:15:17 <salpynx> (trying to golf a minimal bfjoust strategy that does ok on the hill.)
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23:17:43 <ais523> I think that counts as fast rush by modern standards, despite the deco
23:19:20 <ais523> aww, and it beats medium by 4 cycles on one polarity on long tapes, that is incredibly close
23:19:32 <ais523> (but the same thing happens consistently on enough tape lengths to swing the result)
23:19:50 <ais523> medium doesn't care much about beating fast rush because there's hardly any of it on the hill, so I optimised for beating other strategies
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01:03:22 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164355&oldid=164313 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (-153)
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01:51:15 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164356&oldid=164346 * GUAqwq * (-39) Syntax description done
01:54:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164357&oldid=164209 * GUAqwq * (+16) Add [[TrackSpan]]
02:37:21 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164358&oldid=164139 * ACBLOX * (+90)
03:04:27 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164359&oldid=163982 * Xyzzy * (+520)
03:28:35 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164360&oldid=164355 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+2)
03:30:59 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164361&oldid=164356 * GUAqwq * (+8) /* NOT */
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03:35:09 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164362&oldid=164361 * GUAqwq * (+54) /* Duplicate */
03:36:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[MODULARBALL]] to [[User:Aadenboy/MODULARBALL]]
03:37:22 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164365&oldid=164357 * Aadenboy * (-18) /* M */ remove [[MODULARBALL]] from language list
03:52:18 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164366&oldid=148469 * GUAqwq * (+16) /* My TS Series esolangs */
03:52:31 <esolangs> [[User:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164367&oldid=164366 * GUAqwq * (+16) /* All my esolangs */
03:52:52 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164368&oldid=164362 * GUAqwq * (+94) /* Swap */
03:54:13 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164369&oldid=164368 * GUAqwq * (-30) /* Organizing data */
03:57:31 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164370&oldid=164369 * GUAqwq * (+67) /* NOR */
03:57:47 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164371&oldid=164370 * GUAqwq * (-9) /* Single run of chip */
03:57:55 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/bondbondbondbondbond]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164372 * Aadenboy * (+1777) Created page with "{{lowercasetitle}} '''bondbondbondbondbond'' is an esolang created by [[User:Aadenboy]], loosely based around particles. == Structure == Program starts at the decayers (<code>q</code>/<code>Q</code>). A single electron of down-spin or up-spi
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04:22:29 <zzo38> Is there a name for a pattern in programming when a unconditional relative jump uses the result of a comparison as the relative jump amount?
04:24:04 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164373&oldid=164371 * GUAqwq * (+231) /* Loop in single chip */
04:30:39 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164374&oldid=164373 * GUAqwq * (+126) categories
05:12:35 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164375&oldid=164374 * GUAqwq * (+319) /* Intra-chip tricks */
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08:11:16 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164376&oldid=164375 * GUAqwq * (-343) My bad :C. It seems to be useless. I should think twice in the future
08:32:19 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164377&oldid=164376 * GUAqwq * (+533) /* Data transportation */
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09:06:11 <ais523> !bfjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
09:06:17 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
09:06:18 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 19.93, score 52.76, rank 1/47 (+1)
09:06:42 <ais523> yay, now legitimately #1
09:07:39 <ais523> so it turns out takwin-yuzbasi was beating it via massively overfitting – the program outright recognised its decoy setup in order to skip most of its decoys
09:07:58 <ais523> so the challenge here was to change the decoy setup to something else, while still doing well against the field
09:08:59 <ais523> and that in turn meant making two_thirds less overfitted so that I could experiment with changing the decoy setups without incurring random losses as a consequence (some amount of overfitting is usually inevitable for any program that you evaluate against a hill, because you see a change improves things and it isn't obvious whether it's a "genuine" improvement or overfitting)
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09:19:38 <esolangs> [[Dumb BittyFish9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164378&oldid=164260 * * (+4115)
09:34:17 <esolangs> [[BF Joust champions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164379&oldid=163454 * Ais523 * (+2495) /* 2025 */ what's been going on with two_thirds
09:37:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164380&oldid=164354 * Ais523 * (+401) /* Weird esolang I remember using before */ a coincidence?
09:40:32 <esolangs> [[Dumb BittyFish9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164381&oldid=164378 * * (+354) /* Examples */
09:55:40 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164382&oldid=164377 * GUAqwq * (+987) /*Data transference */
10:06:27 <esolangs> [[PureFun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164383&oldid=164114 * PrySigneToFry * (+898)
10:09:16 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164384&oldid=160070 * PrySigneToFry * (-94)
10:09:43 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164385&oldid=164384 * PrySigneToFry * (+1) Fix 2
10:14:52 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164386&oldid=164382 * GUAqwq * (+921) Turing completeness proved
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10:16:04 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164387&oldid=164386 * GUAqwq * (+0) /* Infinite chips */
10:17:00 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164388&oldid=164387 * GUAqwq * (-18)
10:19:25 <esolangs> [[Schaftenstein]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164389&oldid=163829 * PrySigneToFry * (+130)
10:21:21 <esolangs> [[TrackSpan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164390&oldid=164388 * GUAqwq * (+28)
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10:22:21 <esolangs> [[Schaftenstein]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164391&oldid=164389 * PrySigneToFry * (-13)
10:23:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:TrackSpan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164392&oldid=164330 * GUAqwq * (+163)
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11:10:11 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164393&oldid=164202 * PrySigneToFry * (+17) Nobody here now? If so then I'll add into revreS 3.
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11:16:48 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 2.40, score 22.13, rank 13/47
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13:00:41 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164394&oldid=164393 * Ractangle * (+39) /* revreS 3 */
13:02:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Compass]] to [[Interactive Thon Language]]
13:04:41 <esolangs> [[Interactive Thon Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164397&oldid=164395 * Ractangle * (-110)
13:28:33 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164398&oldid=164394 * Tommyaweosme * (-24) /* revreS 3 */ fixed
13:28:44 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164399&oldid=164398 * Tommyaweosme * (+4) /* revreS 3 */ fixed
13:29:25 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164400&oldid=164399 * Ractangle * (+11) /* revreS 3 */
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13:52:17 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164401&oldid=163348 * Ractangle * (+518) /* Interpreter */
14:13:56 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164402&oldid=164190 * Ractangle * (+241)
14:30:12 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164403&oldid=164401 * Ractangle * (+387) /* Interpreter */
15:06:44 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164404&oldid=164402 * Ractangle * (+659)
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15:29:34 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164405&oldid=164400 * PrySigneToFry * (+12)
15:30:41 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164406&oldid=164404 * Ractangle * (+1079)
15:58:50 <esolangs> [[Dan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164407 * PrySigneToFry * (+1254) Created page with "Dan is an esoteric programming language designed by PSTF. = Overview = Dan is supposed to be Turing-complete but to be minimialized. = Original Command Table = {| class="wikitable" |+ Commands |- ! Command !! Meaning |- | INC x || Let x be x+1. |- | DEC x || Let x b
15:59:04 <esolangs> [[Dan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164408&oldid=164407 * PrySigneToFry * (+1)
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16:06:07 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164409&oldid=164365 * PrySigneToFry * (+10)
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17:01:05 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 2.50, score 22.30, rank 13/47 (--)
17:52:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164410&oldid=164380 * ACBLOX * (+828)
17:54:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164411&oldid=164410 * ACBLOX * (+0)
17:59:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164412&oldid=164411 * ACBLOX * (+158)
18:01:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164413&oldid=164412 * ACBLOX * (+4)
18:02:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164414&oldid=164413 * ACBLOX * (-172)
18:02:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164415&oldid=164414 * ACBLOX * (+79)
18:02:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164416&oldid=164415 * ACBLOX * (-19)
18:03:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164417&oldid=164416 * ACBLOX * (-11)
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18:35:20 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164418&oldid=164406 * Ractangle * (+6)
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19:29:19 <esolangs> [[UNAI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164419&oldid=154353 * Ractangle * (+127)
19:29:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164420&oldid=164417 * ACBLOX * (+82)
20:33:49 <esolangs> [[Swipe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164421&oldid=164220 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+6) /* Computational class */
21:01:41 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164422&oldid=164418 * Ractangle * (-30)
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21:31:31 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164423&oldid=164360 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+18)
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21:51:25 <esolangs> [[Love]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164424 * * (+2271) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Love |author=[[User:]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |majorimpl=[https://sites.google.com/view/love-interpreter/love-interpreter?authuser=9] }} [[Love]] is esoteric programming language using commands <code>l</code>,<code>o</code>, <code>v</code>, and <c
21:51:50 <esolangs> [[Love]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164425&oldid=164424 * * (+0)
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21:54:47 <esolangs> [[User:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164426&oldid=164261 * * (+40)
22:00:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * * uploaded "[[File:Ignorethis 5542qqdd3 3.png]]"
22:03:20 <esolangs> [[User:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164428&oldid=164426 * * (+64)
23:42:24 <esolangs> [[BF Joust strategies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164429&oldid=164164 * Ais523 * (+1050) /* Decoy */ fast rush, large decoy counterstrategies
23:48:23 <esolangs> [[Codeglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164430&oldid=164423 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+0)
00:16:10 <esolangs> [[Vars]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164431 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+470) Created page with "Vars is a simple esolang where varibles are defined by a number which by default is zero (Note: numbers cannot be used in the code and variable number 0 is treated as empty (so you can access it (#()))) Commands: #(x) varible number x +(x) add one to var
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00:32:37 <esolangs> [[Hourglass]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164432 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+833) Created page with "Hourglass is an esolang where all variables are hourglasses with two values: top,bottom. Each action 1 is subtracted from the top and add the the bottom unless the top is 0. By default all hourglasses start with 0,0. (Note: no numbers allowed. Hourglass
00:33:19 <esolangs> [[Hourglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164433&oldid=164432 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+69)
00:33:49 <esolangs> [[User:HyperbolicireworksPen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164434&oldid=164309 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+25)
00:35:17 <esolangs> [[Adders]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164435&oldid=163553 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (-3)
00:36:17 <esolangs> [[Vars]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164436&oldid=164431 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+69)
00:36:40 <esolangs> [[Vars]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164437&oldid=164436 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+16)
00:39:03 <esolangs> [[Vars]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164438&oldid=164437 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+38)
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01:11:19 <esolangs> [[Hourglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164439&oldid=164433 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+20)
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02:06:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164440&oldid=164226 * PrySigneToFry * (+1772)
02:12:09 <esolangs> [[Dan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164441&oldid=164408 * PrySigneToFry * (+104)
02:43:41 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/Some useless code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164442&oldid=151744 * PrySigneToFry * (+30)
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06:19:34 <esolangs> [[Blues machine/Portable Minsky Machine Notation conversion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164443&oldid=108871 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+20)
07:13:32 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code/Topple 1.0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164444&oldid=164314 * H33T33 * (-121)
08:16:06 <esolangs> [[Talk:Turi ip ip ip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164445&oldid=100549 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1451) /* Turing-completeness proof */ new section
08:18:35 <esolangs> [[Turi ip ip ip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164446&oldid=120324 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+166)
08:19:10 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164447&oldid=164277 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+19)
08:42:16 <esolangs> [[RifL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164448&oldid=109001 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+31)
08:45:22 <esolangs> [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164449&oldid=163765 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+535) /* Main table */ Added brainfuck in RifL
08:45:52 <esolangs> [[RIfP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164450&oldid=133890 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+31)
09:03:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:QR-Idontknow.gif]]": See [[I don't know]].
09:07:36 <esolangs> [[File:QR-Idontknow.gif]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164452&oldid=164451 * SzszszszszszszsZ * (+25) /* Summary */
09:08:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:DM-Idontknow.gif]]": Data Matrix. See [[I don't know/Human languages]].
09:09:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:PDF-Idontknow.gif]]": PDF417 code. See [[I don't know/Human languages]].
09:12:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164455&oldid=164179 * I am islptng * (+219)
09:38:19 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164456&oldid=164385 * I am islptng * (-118)
09:39:54 <esolangs> [[Seas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164457&oldid=90665 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+519) Added TC proof
09:40:57 <esolangs> [[Seas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164458&oldid=164457 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+69)
09:41:54 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164459&oldid=164447 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+35) /* Turing-completness Proofs */
09:42:15 <esolangs> [[Seas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164460&oldid=164458 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-4) /* Computational class */
09:43:41 <esolangs> [[Bedroom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164461&oldid=93503 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+6) /* The actual commands */
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10:21:09 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 3.36, score 23.66, rank 11/47 (+2)
10:37:15 <esolangs> [[IceBox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164462&oldid=163575 * Ractangle * (+330)
10:43:53 <esolangs> [[BitBrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164463&oldid=120666 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* BitBrain-S */
10:44:05 <esolangs> [[BitBrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164464&oldid=164463 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+5) /* Computational class */
10:44:42 <esolangs> [[BitBrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164465&oldid=164464 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+7)
10:59:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:Hue.png]]": Hexahue. See [[I don't know/Human languages]].
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11:29:58 <esolangs> [[25 bytes o:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164467&oldid=161276 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Python intepreters */ wait a minute
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11:44:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Hue.png]]": 10x bigger
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12:14:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:Utopia Divine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164469 * GUAqwq * (+106) Created page with "What a romance concept! --~~~~"
12:20:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Utopia Divine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164470&oldid=164469 * GUAqwq * (+1) omg typo ):
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13:20:42 <int-e> . o O ( Nobody told me that Pipe Push has post-game puzzles... gah, I thought I had a chance to actually finish it ;-) )
13:20:58 <int-e> *Pipe Push Paradise
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14:36:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Microcode * New user account
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14:51:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164471&oldid=164352 * Microcode * (+179) /* Introductions */
14:54:35 <esolangs> [[User:Microcode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164472 * Microcode * (+87) Created page with "Hello, world! I'm interested in the design and implementation of programming languages."
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15:22:15 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164473&oldid=164459 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+109) /* TODO list */
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16:15:21 <esolangs> [[Love]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164474&oldid=164425 * * (+1780) /* Examples */
16:18:58 <b_jonas> int-e: does it have third party modded puzzles?
16:19:43 <b_jonas> because that's the evil part with Patrick's Parabox, even after you 100% the challenge levels at the end and you think you're done there are mods
16:21:08 <int-e> b_jonas: I don't think so. I did get that experience with Recursed though.
16:22:24 <int-e> (For Recursed there's this, https://recursed-ice-palace.github.io/downloads/ ...just a few extra puzzles. But I never managed to solve them all :P)
16:23:45 <int-e> Pipe Push Paradise is one of those games where the puzzles aren't really separate from the main world, so making more puzzles would be rather invasive.
16:24:39 <int-e> they are isolated though; there are enclosures that you walk into
16:44:13 <esolangs> [[StackBit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164475&oldid=158563 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+312) Added Reversible StackBit
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16:57:57 <esolangs> [[Seas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164476&oldid=164460 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-39) /* Computational class */
16:58:11 <esolangs> [[StackBit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164477&oldid=164475 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+7) /* Reversible StackBit */
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17:35:50 <b_jonas> the nice part of Patrick's Parabox is that it's organized in a way that has four natural stopping points: any%, all non-hard levels in the main area, all levels in the main area, and 100%. but only the last two of those actually matter, because anyone who is in danger of getting hooked to the game and can't stop would never stop at the first two points.
17:36:26 <b_jonas> that said, though I personally solved almost none of the postgame levels, I've seen several other players who got the 100%, so it's definitely an achievable goal and a good stopping point
17:45:17 <zzo38> I like Hero Hearts that you can try to solve the puzzles in any order, and the levels are independent from each other (although they do have an order, you do not have to do them in order). (Some other games are like that too, such as a tsume shogi game I have played; there are more than one but I played one which I like)
17:53:13 <esolangs> [[Yea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164478&oldid=102720 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-593) /* Description */ Working on a newer version
17:57:39 <esolangs> [[Yea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164479&oldid=164478 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* Description */
17:58:28 <esolangs> [[Yea]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164480&oldid=164479 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* Description */
18:26:55 <esolangs> [[Collern]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164481 * Dmiz * (+3164) Created page with "Collern is a esolang created by user ~~~ in 5 days <br> Collern mix [[Brainfuck]] and [[Thue]] into a bizarre thing <br> Collern have the commands: [ = push <br> ] = end push[ <br> & = IA => LS <br> = LS => IA <br> > = bf <br> < = bf <br> + = bf <br> - = bf <br> . = bf
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19:09:30 <b_jonas> zzo38: out of curiosity, have you played tom7's puzzle game Escape?
19:09:47 <b_jonas> it has independent levels too, so you might like it
19:34:32 <zzo38> (I had also implemented some of its features (e.g. bizarro world) in Free Hero Mesh, which might be useful in case someone wants to try to implement Escape in Free Hero Mesh (although it can also be used for other things).)
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19:46:35 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code/Topple 1.0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164482&oldid=164444 * H33T33 * (+121)
19:58:44 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox/Timeline 1832]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164483&oldid=164196 * Ractangle * (+56) /* Post-Colision */
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21:47:40 <esolangs> [[Collern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164484&oldid=164481 * Dmiz * (+71)
21:50:26 <esolangs> [[Collern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164485&oldid=164484 * Dmiz * (+29)
21:52:17 <esolangs> [[Collern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164486&oldid=164485 * Dmiz * (+76)
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03:23:04 <zemhill> web.takwin-yuzbasi: points -5.05, score 17.20, rank 31/47 (+1)
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08:03:22 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164487&oldid=155787 * Ractangle * (+66) link style taken from my IT Step Collage homework!
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09:27:44 <esolangs> [[!aBF']] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164488&oldid=149398 * PkmnQ * (+53)
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11:55:18 <esolangs> [[5D Deadfish with Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164489&oldid=149060 * Gian07 * (+0)
11:56:15 <esolangs> [[5D Deadfish with Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164490&oldid=164489 * Gian07 * (-9)
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13:22:41 <esolangs> [[AEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164491&oldid=135929 * Pro465 * (+39) /* Some Examples */ add quine
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14:58:45 <esolangs> [[Underload/a interpreter in scheme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164492&oldid=150188 * MijiGamin1 * (+1) minor grammar change
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16:26:32 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164493&oldid=164358 * ACBLOX * (+50)
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18:04:09 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/U]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164494&oldid=137413 * WarzokERNST135 * (-5) Just fixing a double redirect
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18:18:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:2015]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164495&oldid=46057 * MijiGamin1 * (+161) /* Interpreter */ new section
19:25:53 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164496&oldid=164487 * Ractangle * (+0)
19:32:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164497&oldid=141830 * MijiGamin1 * (+514) /* Pyramid / */ new section
19:46:02 <esolangs> [[U (Ractangle)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164498&oldid=148474 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Implementation */
20:21:00 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164499&oldid=164496 * Ractangle * (+45)
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22:50:55 <esolangs> [[User:MijiGamin1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164500&oldid=164339 * MijiGamin1 * (+64) added hyperlink and 2015
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23:49:32 <esolangs> [[CreativeScript v2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164501&oldid=136194 * RainbowDash * (+2301) total stuff
00:04:14 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164502&oldid=163179 * Myalt2334 * (+472) Updated outdated syntax, added comments section
00:06:47 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164503&oldid=164502 * Myalt2334 * (+110) /* Strings */
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02:25:19 <esolangs> [[Emoticode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164504&oldid=164503 * Myalt2334 * (+5) /* Flush */
02:35:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Emoticode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164505 * Myalt2334 * (+185) Created page with "Okay I did NOT know [[Emo]] existed when I designed Emoticode. They did it better I think, but I abstracted I don't think they did that so I mean like at least my take was semi-original"
02:36:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:Emoticode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164506&oldid=164505 * Myalt2334 * (+92)
03:46:05 <zzo38> How to prevent some DOS games from auto-detecting the sound card (in case I want to use the PC speaker instead)? (Many games include an option, but some don't. Additionally, while some have a separate option for music and for sound effects, some have only one option which affects both.)
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06:13:14 <esolangs> [[AEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164507&oldid=164491 * Pro465 * (-4) /* Quine */ shorten quine
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07:04:35 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
07:04:36 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.10, score 55.95, rank 1/47 (--)
07:06:29 <ais523> it is ridiculous that the optimisation goals now include "making your decoy setup harder to recognise"
07:07:27 <ais523> but this nonetheless has helped avoid me overfitting – takwin-yuzbasi is trying to special-case against two_thirds and previously I was defeating that by modifying details of the decoys to reverse the special case, getting an arbitrary advantage
07:08:03 <ais523> but that just leads to a sequence of repeatedly flipping checks, so now the decoy setup is designed to be neutral in terms of recognisability and I went and got the win back by improving other cases instead
07:08:34 <ais523> (with the consequence that two_thirds is doing even better against the field generally, with the exception of space_elevator which naturally beats some of the new cases but is still beaten by the old ones)
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07:18:58 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164508&oldid=164499 * Ractangle * (-21)
07:20:11 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164509&oldid=164508 * Ractangle * (+0)
07:20:31 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164510&oldid=164509 * Ractangle * (-28)
07:27:03 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
07:27:03 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.14, score 56.19, rank 1/47 (--)
07:29:08 <esolangs> [[U (Ractangle)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164511&oldid=164498 * Ractangle * (-730) /* Implementation */
07:29:32 <esolangs> [[BF Joust champions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164512&oldid=164379 * Ais523 * (+267) /* 2025 */ one more special case in two_thirds
07:31:41 <ais523> really, any program can be beaten by overfitting to it specifically, but the hope is to make two_thirds hard enough to overfit against that any program that attempts to do so will get knocked off the hill by the programs it isn't overfit against
07:32:56 <ais523> the interesting thing is that takwin-yuzbasi is generally good against two_third's strategy in addition to the overfitting to the decoy setup, which is healthy as it just helps to add to the massively complex rock-paper-scissors that is the hill
07:33:43 <ais523> or, hmm, two_thirds ends with a plural noun but it is a name, so technically singular, so maybe it should be two_thirds's?
07:35:30 <ais523> many programs nowadays aim to win on some ranges of tape lengths and intentionally sacrifice the others against certain strategies (e.g. the "skip to cell 18 or so if you don't see any decoys early" strategy, which helps a lot against programs that set a lot of decoys and doesn't sacrifice too much against programs that set few)
07:36:40 <ais523> but, you can counter that using strategies that, e.g., assume the tape length is even (because that gives you enough speed to beat the decoy-skippers on long even tape lengths, but they lose on all the shorter tape lengths, so you win the short tapes and half of the long ones = more than 50%)
07:37:07 <ais523> on this reasoning, you would expect takwin-yuzbasi to do very well against medium, and indeed it does
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10:17:28 <esolangs> [[LongJump]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164513 * None1 * (+1059) Created page with "'''LongJump''' is a 2D [[fungeoid]] invented by [[User:None1]]. ==Memory== It has 2 unbounded signed accumulators: A and B, both initialized with 0. ==Grid== A [[Nopfunge]]-styled grid is used. Both line numbers and column numbers are 0-indexed. Execution starts at (0,0)
10:19:50 <esolangs> [[LongJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164514&oldid=164513 * None1 * (+90) /* XKCD Random Number */
10:20:07 <esolangs> [[LongJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164515&oldid=164514 * None1 * (+2) /* XKCD Random Number */
10:20:26 <esolangs> [[LongJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164516&oldid=164515 * None1 * (+20) /* Commands */
10:21:07 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164517&oldid=160481 * None1 * (+3) /* Staples */ Change to H3
10:21:18 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164518&oldid=164517 * None1 * (+2) /* Stats */
10:21:53 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164519&oldid=164518 * None1 * (+6) /* Program */
10:22:05 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164520&oldid=164519 * None1 * (+2) /* Program */
10:22:34 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164521&oldid=164520 * None1 * (+167) /* Length */
10:24:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164522&oldid=164409 * None1 * (+15) /* L */
10:26:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164523&oldid=140357 * None1 * (+462) /* Unknown languages */ new section
10:26:42 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164524&oldid=164070 * None1 * (+71)
10:28:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164525&oldid=163282 * None1 * (+350)
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12:56:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Birchb1024 * New user account
13:03:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164526&oldid=164471 * Birchb1024 * (+210)
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13:56:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164527&oldid=164525 * Ais523 * (+519) /* Can you prove computational class for esolang LongJump? */ the language specification is missing an important detail
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14:42:51 <ais523> OK, so I finally found documentation on how x86alike memory ordering actually works: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~pes20/weakmemory/cacm.pdf
14:43:45 <ais523> from a C++ memory model point of view, the "default" memory ordering for ordinary instructions seems to be acquire-release, but unlocked RMW instructions aren't atomic in the sense that things can happen between the acquire and release (this is one of the main reasons to lock – the other reason is for if you need sequential consistency)
14:53:07 <esolangs> [[User:/nil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164528&oldid=163225 * Qawtykit * (+71)
15:07:53 <ais523> (to clarify: reads acquire and writes release, they don't both do both)
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15:17:03 <strerror> I was told long ago that acquire-release was invented to describe what architectures like x86 were already doing.
15:18:46 <strerror> (And other archs which didn't default to acquire-release, like Power, followed suit or died out.)
15:19:30 <ais523> it's a bit complicated – some architectures have explicit "acquire" and "release" prefixes/bits, and there's the "consume" memory order which matches what weakly ordered processors do but has proven hard to specify and work with
15:19:48 <ais523> I suspect that the memory models and processors influenced each other
15:31:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CCigC * New user account
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15:39:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164529&oldid=164526 * CCigC * (+164)
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16:02:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164530&oldid=164523 * PkmnQ * (+247) /* Unknown languages */
16:04:09 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164531&oldid=164521 * PkmnQ * (-10)
16:04:46 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164532&oldid=164531 * PkmnQ * (+1) /* Esolangs.org */
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16:50:24 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164533&oldid=157676 * Hotcrystal0 * (-26)
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17:35:40 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164534&oldid=164532 * Aadenboy * (-4) /* Esolangs.org */ revert back to h2
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18:48:17 <esolangs> [[DotSF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164535&oldid=160600 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+157) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the DotSF programming language on GitHub and marked the extant implementation's provenance as absent.
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20:34:10 <esolangs> [['Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164536&oldid=164015 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Truth-machine */
20:38:50 <esolangs> [['Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164537&oldid=164536 * Ractangle * (+94)
20:39:31 <esolangs> [['Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164538&oldid=164537 * Ractangle * (+34) /* Syntax */
20:40:46 <esolangs> [['Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164539&oldid=164538 * Ractangle * (+31) /* Syntax */
21:48:52 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164540&oldid=164403 * Ractangle * (-91) /* Interpreter */
21:52:19 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164541&oldid=164540 * Ractangle * (+22) /* Interpreter */
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22:25:19 <zemhill> web.takwin-yuzbasi: points -2.95, score 18.85, rank 25/47 (+7)
22:55:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164542&oldid=154283 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+156)
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23:05:27 <int-e> Okay, Pipe Push Paradise game is done after 47 main puzzles, an interlude puzzle and two sets of 8 extra puzzles each. :-)
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03:44:08 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
03:44:08 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.21, score 56.28, rank 1/47 (--)
03:44:45 <ais523> come on, I hardly had to change anything to beat takwin-yuzbasi again – it was extremely overfitted to the decoy setup so I just made a couple of arbitrary changes
03:46:31 <ais523> (and the new decoy setup is better against the field anyway)
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04:24:59 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164543&oldid=163696 * Waso * (-2) Optimized bit flip
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05:37:42 <esolangs> [[LongJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164544&oldid=164516 * None1 * (-71)
05:38:05 <esolangs> [[LongJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164545&oldid=164544 * None1 * (-3)
05:38:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164546&oldid=164527 * None1 * (+389) /* Can you prove computational class for esolang LongJump? */
05:49:27 <zemhill> web.takwin-yuzbasi: points -1.36, score 20.06, rank 18/47 (+7)
06:28:01 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
06:28:01 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.00, score 55.72, rank 1/47 (--)
06:28:10 * ais523 vaguely wonders who is responsible for takwin-yuzbasi
06:29:18 <ais523> wait, I think this is the wrong version
06:30:08 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
06:30:09 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.40, score 56.90, rank 1/47 (--)
06:31:00 <ais523> the score has to get better every time, that's how you know you're actually improving the program rather than getting into an overfitting war
06:35:06 <ais523> (as a summary of what I think is happening: takwin-yuzbasi's strategy should beat two_thirds half the time and lose to it half the time on long tapes, and should lose on more than half the medium-short tapes – but it's winning the medium-short tapes by setting decoys that happen to clash with two_thirds' in exactly the right way to throw off the synchronization, which can be defeated by just changing the size of the decoys)
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07:12:43 <ais523> !ztest waterfall3 http://nethack4.org/pastebin/waterfall3.bfjoust
07:12:44 <zemhill> ais523.waterfall3: points -10.02, score 12.66, rank 47/47
07:12:52 <ais523> that used to be a beat-every-program winner, IIRC
07:13:40 <ais523> I'm not sure if there were any others, apart from waterfall3 and two_thirds
07:13:54 <ais523> but it's amazing how far the strategy has come on since 2011
07:14:26 <ais523> !ztest vibration_fool_faster >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127.(-+)*50000
07:14:26 <zemhill> ais523.vibration_fool_faster: points -11.67, score 11.25, rank 47/47
07:15:36 <ais523> !ztest jix_wiggle3 http://ais523.me.uk/esolangs/bfjoust/codu-archive/48730c91ec77-jix_wiggle3.modern-syntax.txt
07:15:36 <zemhill> ais523.jix_wiggle3: points -10.14, score 12.17, rank 47/47
07:16:29 <ais523> the other amazing thing is how GregorR's sucralose_philip, a program from 2011, is still doing just fine in the present hill and is in the top half of programs, even though other top programs from that time stand no chance nowadays
07:16:53 <ais523> (it hasn't been on the hill all that time, I put it back semi-recently)
07:17:54 <ais523> ah, space_elevator is also doing well on the hill and the original version was from 2011, although I'm not sure whether it's still the same program that it was back then
07:19:25 <ais523> and ais523_slowpoke (2011) is still on the hill, just about, and ais523_omnipotence (2013) is in the top half (that must surely be the longest-surviving defensive program)
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08:57:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164547&oldid=164529 * CCigC * (+2)
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10:13:15 <esolangs> [[DotSF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164548&oldid=164535 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+361) Amended an orthographic mistake and improved the formatting of code fragments.
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11:23:19 <ais523> !zjoust backstop2 http://nethack4.org/pastebin/backstop2.bfjoust
11:23:20 <zemhill> ais523.backstop2: points 17.79, score 46.44, rank 2/47 (--)
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13:43:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MAGICICRON * New user account
13:46:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheGablatirel * New user account
14:46:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164549&oldid=164547 * TheGablatirel * (+198) /* Introductions */
14:47:34 <esolangs> [[Free Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164550&oldid=157478 * TheGablatirel * (+96)
14:48:28 <esolangs> [[User:TheGablatirel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164551 * TheGablatirel * (+16) Created page with "hi im gablatirel"
14:48:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:TheGablatirel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164552 * TheGablatirel * (+48) Created page with "I CAN CREATE PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11"
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17:40:46 <korvo> Hello and goodbye. Aloha, I suppose.
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17:57:18 <fizzie> Well, that's new; spikes of ~15 reqs/s on logs.esolangs.org this time: https://zem.fi/tmp/qps.png
17:59:21 <fizzie> There aren't even that many pages on there, how can someone spend so long crawling over it.
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18:04:46 <esolangs> [[Place]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164553&oldid=162003 * Qawtykit * (+1)
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20:05:25 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164554&oldid=164405 * Ractangle * (+11) /* revreS 1 */
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23:37:47 <zemhill> web.takwin-yuzbasi: points -1.17, score 20.07, rank 18/47 (+2)
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03:59:44 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 3.93, score 24.50, rank 10/47 (--)
04:00:21 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 3.93, score 24.50, rank 10/47 (--)
04:02:41 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 4.02, score 24.59, rank 10/47 (--)
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08:25:55 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164555&oldid=164541 * Ractangle * (-289) /* computational class */
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10:55:12 <esolangs> [[Esolangs.org]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164556&oldid=147998 * None1 * (+28) /* Format */
10:55:22 <esolangs> [[Esolangs.org]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164557&oldid=164556 * None1 * (+1) /* Format */
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11:14:46 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164558&oldid=164554 * None1 * (+16) /* Server 2 */
11:16:00 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164559&oldid=164558 * None1 * (+16) /* revreS 3 */
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13:24:00 <esolangs> [[U (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164560&oldid=164511 * MijiGamin1 * (+0) fixed a variety of typos
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14:47:16 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
14:47:17 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.36, score 56.74, rank 1/47 (--)
14:48:04 <ais523> !zjoust two_thirds http://nethack4.org/pastebin/two_thirds.bfjoust
14:48:05 <zemhill> ais523.two_thirds: points 21.50, score 57.08, rank 1/47 (--)
16:21:18 <esolangs> [[Esolangs.org]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164561&oldid=164557 * Aadenboy * (-2)
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17:25:03 <ais523> a thought I had recently: basically all the problems memory allocators have happen as a consequence of not knowing free order
17:25:29 <ais523> which means that you can end up with fragmented memory if allocations that are freed early and allocations that are freed late end up next to each other
17:26:17 <ais523> if allocators could pack together their allocations in such a way that all the allocations in a particular page were freed at the same time, it would allow them to do all sorts of fancy things without wasting memory
17:27:29 <ais523> (e.g. constantly rotating virtual addresses so that use-after-free and double-freewere deterministically detectable, or reserving pages for objects of a particular type, which gives both performance security benefits)
17:28:34 <ais523> * both performance and security benefits
17:29:13 <ais523> but I've got a bit stuck in working out to what extent programs would be able to actually work out what the free order would be – in many cases it's easy, but for some (e.g. optimisation algorithms which are doing matches-and-rewrites on subtrees) it is much harder
17:30:47 <ais523> it feels like, in the cases where free order is unknown, it should be possible to do a mix of manually compacting (via a "deep clone, then drop the original" strategy) if most of the allocations are dead, and declaring that the fragmentation doesn't matter if most of the allocations are alive, but I'm not sure that actually works and it might not be possible to infer at compile time
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17:36:40 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164562&oldid=164559 * Hotcrystal0 * (+13)
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19:46:28 <esolangs> [[Gora]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164563&oldid=138823 * Ractangle * (+662) we are going to goroshevka with this one!!!
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23:03:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wasabi134 * New user account
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23:16:51 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164564&oldid=164562 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+13)
23:19:36 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164565&oldid=164564 * Juanp32 * (+10) /* Server 7 */ hi
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23:32:41 <esolangs> [[Adders]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164566&oldid=164435 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+26)
23:36:29 <esolangs> [[Vars]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164567&oldid=164438 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+43)
23:37:02 <esolangs> [[Hourglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164568&oldid=164439 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+16)
00:05:56 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164569&oldid=164565 * Hotcrystal0 * (+16)
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01:52:27 <salpynx> !ztest lycopodina_minuta >>(+)*5>(-)*9<<<(-)*128(-++-)*19(+-)*8(+--)*4(-+-)*22(--+)*28(-+-{}--+)*12(-+-)*32(+--)*20((-+-)*15{}--+)%12(-+-)*48(+--)*19(-+-)*-1
01:52:27 <zemhill> salpynx.lycopodina_minuta: points -5.33, score 16.13, rank 34/47
01:54:33 <salpynx> another experimental strategy, optimising defense only and trying to encourage opponents to run off the tape. This never moves beyond 2 cells of its flag.
01:55:27 <salpynx> !zjoust lycopodina_minuta >>(+)*5>(-)*9<<<(-)*128(-++-)*19(+-)*8(+--)*4(-+-)*22(--+)*28(-+-{}--+)*12(-+-)*32(+--)*20((-+-)*15{}--+)%12(-+-)*48(+--)*19(-+-)*-1
01:55:28 <zemhill> salpynx.lycopodina_minuta: points -5.33, score 16.13, rank 34/47
01:56:41 <salpynx> a successor to my old synanceia warrior which placed on the hill, but didn't last long.
01:58:25 <salpynx> over-optimised for the hill as usual, but since the hill makeup is pretty stable, it seems to be a good survival strategy
02:00:12 <salpynx> correction, it doesn't go beyond 3 cells from its flag
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06:30:39 <ais523> lycopodina_minuta is the first time I've seen a vibration program change strategies, but it does make sense – unlike a shudder program, a vibration program doesn't normally rely on trapping the opponent on a single cell, so changing away from vibration doesn't turn most of your wins into losses like changing away from shudder would
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07:53:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bespoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164570&oldid=164351 * WinslowJosiah * (+734)
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08:18:04 <esolangs> [[Trumf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164571&oldid=134009 * JIT * (+9)
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08:42:21 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164572&oldid=164569 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Server 7 */
09:20:59 <esolangs> [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164573&oldid=164563 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Syntax */
09:21:26 <esolangs> [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164574&oldid=164573 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Syntax */
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12:25:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:HyperbolicireworksPen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164575&oldid=163159 * Hotcrystal0 * (+470)
13:17:46 <strerror> ais523: for optimisation algorithms, I'd rather have a memory allocator that optimises for locality of access, not locality of deletes; if used with a single-purpose pool allocator, the free is usually cheap anyway
13:18:17 <ais523> hmm, I have the suspicion that the two goals are normally not in conflict, but maybe they are sometimes?
13:19:00 <ais523> but I was thinking about pool allocators when I wrote that – freeing in a pool allocator is cheap as long as you don't need to be able to reclaim memory from the pool to give it to a different pool
13:19:25 <ais523> if you have locality of frees, that makes it possible to reclaim the memory from the pool cheaply
13:21:18 <strerror> I'm guessing different algorithms vary widely in whether they have similar access and delete patterns. There would have to be at least one access for every delete though (and usually down from the root)
13:23:11 <ais523> another thing I noticed is that if you have algorithms that require traversing the entire data structure, it's fairly cheap to copy it as you go
13:23:55 <ais523> that has the advantages of a) allowing you to do a stop-and-copy GC without needing to actually stop, and b) potentially giving better locality for the next traversal because you can allocate the copy in traversal order, even if you added subtrees along the way
13:24:25 <ais523> I don't know whether or not it's cheaper than the traditional method of allocating subtrees you and and freeing subtrees you delete
13:26:49 <ais523> * allocating subtrees you add into the structure you're traversing
13:27:49 <strerror> Yes, though if traversing is a large part of the algorithm, it's also more efficient to store the tree in traversal order without (many) pointers
13:31:42 <strerror> I'm trying to recall specific tree algorithms I've implemented, but due to memoisation, most of them were actually dags.
13:45:17 <ais523> they're usually dags in practice for me, too
13:45:35 <ais523> but not always, e.g. C-INTERCAL's optimiser acts entirely on owned trees
13:54:33 <zemhill> web.three_legged_frog: points 3.93, score 24.49, rank 10/47 (--)
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15:01:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164576&oldid=164549 * CrSb0001 * (+288)
15:01:26 <esolangs> [[User:CrSb0001]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164577 * CrSb0001 * (+652) Created page with "I like math and programming. I'm also planning to be fairly active on here, Rosetta Code, and Wikipedia. Programming languages I can comfortably program in (non-esoteric): * Python * T-SQL * Ruby * Javascript * Lean 4 Programming languages I can comfortably pro
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15:16:29 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164578&oldid=163963 * Aadenboy * (-185)
15:16:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[Ball Pit]] to [[User:Aadenboy/Ball Pit]]
15:17:24 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164581&oldid=164522 * Aadenboy * (-15) /* B */ remove [[User:Aadenboy/Ball pit|Ball pit]]
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17:06:02 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164582&oldid=164572 * Ractangle * (+610) /* Server 4 */ check out my branching
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17:08:26 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164583&oldid=164582 * Ractangle * (-185) /* Server 4 */ fixed it since it starts at the wrong entry
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17:10:10 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164584&oldid=164583 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Server 4 */ center!
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17:41:27 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1333.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
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23:14:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:HyperbolicireworksPen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164585&oldid=164575 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+139)
23:21:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164586&oldid=164542 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+251)
23:57:42 <esolangs> [[Hourglass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164587&oldid=164568 * HyperbolicireworksPen * (+256)
01:03:25 <esolangs> [[Pax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164588&oldid=8682 * Tpaefawzen * (+77) +cat
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02:20:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BEANSTASTEGOOD * New user account
02:22:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164589&oldid=164576 * BEANSTASTEGOOD * (+140)
04:47:39 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164590 * RainbowDash * (+5751) Save Progress
04:49:34 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164591&oldid=164590 * RainbowDash * (+71) Total programming
04:52:51 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164592&oldid=164591 * RainbowDash * (+243) See also and catagories
04:54:11 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164593&oldid=164592 * RainbowDash * (+4) paragraph header formatting
04:59:07 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164594&oldid=164593 * RainbowDash * (+113) Fix table and move stuff around
05:24:30 <esolangs> [[S*bleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164595&oldid=149200 * I am islptng * (+57)
06:25:42 <esolangs> [[S*bleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164596&oldid=164595 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-178) There was a mistake in the original description
06:36:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164597&oldid=163244 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+351) /* S*bleq */ new section
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07:24:41 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164598&oldid=164594 * RainbowDash * (+51)
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12:36:29 <esolangs> [[Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164599&oldid=157723 * PrySigneToFry * (+418)
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12:44:54 <esolangs> [[Deep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164601&oldid=153924 * PrySigneToFry * (+50)
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13:20:20 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Universe No.284436]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164602&oldid=164197 * PrySigneToFry * (+378)
13:24:27 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Universe No.284436]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164603&oldid=164602 * PrySigneToFry * (+48)
13:40:31 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox/Timeline 1832]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164604&oldid=164483 * Ractangle * (+30)
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14:18:17 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164606&oldid=164605 * Ractangle * (+124)
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15:21:46 <esolangs> [[DragonLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164607&oldid=163236 * PrySigneToFry * (+53)
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18:29:50 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox/Timeline 1832]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164608&oldid=164604 * Ractangle * (+201) /* First Contact */
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20:54:11 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164609&oldid=162619 * Lucaz37 * (+1) pasuni
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00:38:27 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164610&oldid=164584 * PrySigneToFry * (+32)
01:14:47 <esolangs> [[Collern]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164611&oldid=164486 * Dmiz * (+47)
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02:59:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create2 * PrySigneToFry * created new account User:CollaborativePL: This account is used just for making a new language.
03:00:54 <esolangs> [[User:CollaborativePL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164612 * PrySigneToFry * (+142) Created page with "This user is created for an User-edited language. Everyone are allowed to join! = Category = [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:User Edited]]"
03:12:15 <esolangs> [[Deep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164613&oldid=164601 * PrySigneToFry * (+198)
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08:05:18 * ais523 wonders whether the world ever says hello back
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08:52:41 <b_jonas> if I'm documenting an interface like a file format or network protocol, and I have a field reserved for the future that must be written as zero, what's a good way to distinguish in the documentation whether the reader must verify that the field value is zero and nonzero should give an error that you don't support the file, versus when the reader should ignore the field because it's reserved for a hint
08:52:48 <b_jonas> that you can ignore in a backwards compatible way
09:19:30 <FireFly> b_jonas: prose, perhaps? well, or something like "(must be 0)" next to it, but I'd probably still add some prose suggesting it _should_ be checked in that case
09:20:09 <FireFly> below the structure that contains it, probably (presuming this is in some kind of header)
09:46:46 <ais523> b_jonas: I like the word "essential" as a method of describing the case where the reader has to verify it (although you would need to define what that means in case the implementor doesn't know)
09:47:50 <ais523> also worth noting: the problem is not so much zero/nonzero for reserved fields, but known/unknown values for fields in general (and reserved fields are a special case in which the only known value is 0)
09:50:50 <ais523> I guess there's also the problem of "what nonzero values could be syntactically legal", which is probably easy to determine for a byte-based protocol where you know how many bytes the field is, but might be much harder for something with a less rigid format
09:51:19 <ais523> because even if unknown values are permitted and ignored, you still need to know how to parse them
10:23:05 <esolangs> [[Three variable modification language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164614&oldid=127326 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+66) /* Computational Class */
10:23:07 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164615&oldid=163518 * PrySigneToFry * (+2263)
10:24:12 <esolangs> [[Three variable modification language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164616&oldid=164614 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+39)
10:25:08 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164617&oldid=164473 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+42) /* Turing-completness Proofs */
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10:45:13 <b_jonas> yes, it could be for something where 0 isn't the only defined value
10:45:58 <b_jonas> and this is mostly for file formats, because in a network protocol you can often make use of interactivity, as in if you add a new feature then you define it such that the initiator can tell from the other party's response whether they support that feature
11:08:41 <FireFly> I mean, the description of the field made me think of formats with a "format version" field or similar as well
11:11:23 <FireFly> I guess another way to express it would be "the header structure might look different if (the reserved field) is nonzero", which I guess might discourage people being sloppy with checking it
11:12:37 <FireFly> in my own notes when looking at file formats I often add things like "(= 0)" next to fields if they have a seemingly constant value (and if I'd be interested in cases where it doesn't hold), but that's more from a reverser's point-of-view rather than a specification's
11:20:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Rasa8877 * New user account
11:26:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164618&oldid=164589 * Rasa8877 * (+139) /* Introductions */
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12:03:48 <ais523> <the B programming language manual> An octal constant is the same as a decimal constant except that it begins with a zero. It is then interpreted in base 8. Note that 09 (base 8) is legal and equal to 011.
12:04:10 <ais523> …does that carry like Addition Automaton, or count as two digits?
12:05:42 <ais523> I was considering using "C except that the only type is an int/pointer union" as a compiler backend, which is essentially B, so I thought I might as well try to learn actual B to see if it gave any inspiration
12:12:12 <ais523> in general this is very like C, although one oddity is that NUL and end-of-string are different characters (the manual doesn't say how end-of-string is encoded – maybe it was an actual character in the character set of the time)
12:12:50 <esolangs> [[ThingLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164619 * Rasa8877 * (+2031) Created page with "== ThingLang == '''ThingLang''' is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Rasa8877]] in 2025. It is designed to be playful and readable, using English-like keywords for variables, printing, functions, loops, and comments. === Overview === ThingLang us
12:13:04 <ais523> and of course, not having a char type (and only being able to address at the machine word level) would mean awkward bitshifting to get at the characters of a string
12:13:21 <ais523> apparently B being bad at string handling was one of the main things that motivated the creation of C
12:15:07 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164620&oldid=164581 * Rasa8877 * (+16)
12:16:32 <ais523> oh wow, B has assigning versions of basically all the operators, e.g. x === y sets x to 1 if x and y are equal or 0 otherwise
12:17:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164621&oldid=164620 * Rasa8877 * (+16) /* T */
12:19:55 <ais523> …and it has C-style switch with jump-to-case: and fallthrough, *but* does not have a break statement – that's a nasty combination
12:20:12 <ais523> I think any sufficiently old language looks like an esolang if viewed through modern eyes :-D
12:21:21 <esolangs> [[User:Rasa8877]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164622 * Rasa8877 * (+721) Created page with "== User:Rasa8877 == Hi! I'm Rasa8877, a developer and esolang enthusiast. I create esoteric programming languages for fun and experimentation. === About Me === - Interested in programming languages, interpreters, and esoteric languages. - Creator of the es
12:22:46 <ais523> presumably you were supposed to leave using goto (in cases where return was inappropriate)
12:24:31 <ais523> <ais523> (the manual doesn't say how end-of-string is encoded – maybe it was an actual character in the character set of the time) ← it does mention that it was the same character as end-of-file, though
12:27:08 <ais523> <ais523> oh wow, B has assigning versions of basically all the operators, e.g. x === y sets x to 1 if x and y are equal or 0 otherwise ← "has" in that they're documented – the manual later admits that some of them, including ===, weren't actually implemented
12:28:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Rasa8877]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164623 * Rasa8877 * (+673) Created page with "== Welcome to the talk page of Rasa8877! == Hi! This is the talk page for Rasa8877, creator of the esolang ThingLang. Feel free to leave messages, suggestions, questions, or comments about ThingLang or any other esolangs-related topic. === Guidelines ==
12:29:53 <esolangs> [[User:Rasa8877]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164624&oldid=164622 * Rasa8877 * (+0) /* About Me */
12:30:41 <esolangs> [[User:Rasa8877]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164625&oldid=164624 * Rasa8877 * (+0) /* User:Rasa8877 */
12:31:08 <esolangs> [[User:Rasa8877]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164626&oldid=164625 * Rasa8877 * (-2) /* About Me */
13:07:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:Rasa8877]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164627&oldid=164623 * PrySigneToFry * (+252) /* Collaborative programming language */ new section
13:07:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:Rasa8877]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164628&oldid=164627 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
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15:53:11 <ais523> korvo and anyone else interested: I finished my blog post about how linear logic's ? can be used to model Rust's shared references (warning: it's very long for a blog post): http://ais523.me.uk/blog/logic-of-shared-references.html
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15:54:29 <korvo> Put on the pile, thanks.
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16:35:39 <b_jonas> ais523: "C except that the only type is an int/pointer union" => isn't that the original IOCCC form of Bellard's self-hosting tiny C compiler?
16:37:31 <b_jonas> ais523: IIUC tcc has three different dereferencing operators: *(int *), *(char *), and *(int (*)())
16:37:39 <b_jonas> so it can read/write characters as a built-in
16:38:00 <b_jonas> whereas W just has some very small library functions to read or write characters
16:38:35 <b_jonas> it makes sense to have three separate dereferencing operators, because there's just one type, so the type can't encode what sort of pointer you want
16:39:38 <b_jonas> http://www.ioccc.org/2001/bellard/index.html
16:54:40 <esolangs> [[R + S]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164629&oldid=163855 * C++DSUCKER * (+2)
16:55:12 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164630&oldid=164629 * C++DSUCKER * (+16)
17:01:54 <ais523> <b_jonas> it makes sense to have three separate dereferencing operators, because there's just one type, so the type can't encode what sort of pointer you want ← right
17:02:14 <ais523> but B avoids that problem because it has just one type, so any pointer must be a pointer to that type
17:02:46 <ais523> I think the language implicitly assumes function pointers and data pointers are the same size (and functions are always called via function pointer, which removes that ambiguity)
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17:26:40 <b_jonas> ais523: TCC only compiles for one architecture as target, x866_32, where int, data pointer, and function pointer are the same size
17:26:56 <b_jonas> the full TCC might do more, this is about OTCC, the IOCCC entry
17:27:18 <b_jonas> (the full TCC supports different types, including pointers to different structures0
17:29:43 <b_jonas> oh yeah, there's Forth. Forth also has just one type.
17:29:55 <b_jonas> (there's of course an IOCCC version of that too)
17:43:50 <ais523> I've written C for a DSP where basically all the types were the same
17:44:03 <ais523> it had 32 bit char, short, int and pointer, probably long too
17:44:13 <ais523> (and I'm not sure the compiler supported C99 so it may not have supported long long)
17:44:30 <ais523> the compiler was a modified gcc but possibly a very old one
17:48:59 <b_jonas> hmm, didn't the first C compiler port for Magic-1 do that?
17:49:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164631&oldid=164455 * Rasa8877 * (+194)
17:49:45 <b_jonas> it was an existing compiler ported to a new system, since Magic-1 has a unique CPU (though now there are two hardware copies so it's not entirely unique)
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17:59:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EsotericLanguagesBituf * New user account
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18:27:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164632&oldid=161188 * Aadenboy * (+127)
18:51:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Alwaqad * New user account
19:01:01 <APic> 10 PRINT "Good Night, World!"
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19:29:46 <esolangs> [[User:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164633&oldid=164428 * * (+51)
20:00:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iloveunicorns * New user account
21:28:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164634&oldid=164618 * Wasabi134 * (+188) /* Introductions */
21:37:26 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164635&oldid=164630 * C++DSUCKER * (+12)
21:41:12 <Sgeo> Would a tutorial on group theory from 1979 still be useful?
21:42:13 <Sgeo> I wonder what educational material from the 70s is still worthwhile.
21:46:45 <korvo> The basics haven't changed since then. It might be incommensurate with modern language, depending on whether it follows Bourbaki. (Or am I thinking of rings?)
21:50:58 <int-e> Some stuff might be out of date; for example, it might list the Classification of finite simple groups as an open problem.
21:51:13 <Sgeo> It's currently going over stuff like what cyclic subgroups are
21:51:17 <int-e> But the basics really haven't changed, at all.
21:51:34 <int-e> Not even didactically, I'd think.
21:54:19 <int-e> Maybe some students get to play with tools like GAP early these days, depending on the preferences of the lecturer.
21:54:35 <Sgeo> Its definition of isomorphism between groups is that there's a one-to-one correspondence, AB implies A'B', and A'B' implies AB. I guess.. for some reason I was thinking just one to one correspondence, but this makes sense
21:55:05 <int-e> That's the main thing that I think has changed... we have much better tools to work with concrete groups using computers.
21:56:19 <Sgeo> Hmm, it accepted a lowercase c for one question but rejected it in the next
21:58:40 <int-e> "implies" is the wrong word
22:00:04 <int-e> "AB implies A'B'" makes no sense
22:00:14 <Sgeo> It defines a homomorphic groups as being a many-to-one. Does that mean homomorphism itself is directional?
22:00:35 <Sgeo> I assume it's the same as "If AB then A'B'"
22:01:50 <int-e> Given two groups G and H a homomorphism from G to H is usually defined as a function h: G -> H that satisfies h(xy) = h(x)h(y) for all x,y in G. You can write h(x) as x' and it becomes (AB)' = A'B'
22:01:52 <Sgeo> It's now talking about faithful and unfaithful matrix representations
22:02:13 <int-e> But those are group elements, not propositions, so "implies" makes no sense.
22:02:45 <int-e> Not also that xy is using G's group operation while h(x)h(y) is using that of H.
22:03:20 <Sgeo> Oops, I miswrote what the lesson said
22:03:26 <Sgeo> | write established between their elements such that
22:03:26 <Sgeo> | AB = C implies that A'B' = C', and ALSO
22:03:26 <Sgeo> | A'B'= C' implies that AB = C.
22:03:41 <int-e> Okay, that is fine.
22:04:54 <int-e> The differene between "AB = C implies A'B' = C'" and (AB)' = A'B' is that it's giving AB a name.
22:07:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164636&oldid=164634 * Iloveunicorns * (+178)
22:08:20 * Sgeo might want to try 0ibmcur in a bit. Retrocomputing to learn retrocomputting
22:09:42 <Sgeo> Not allowed to inspect it (on Cyber1. I'm sure I could inspect it on a local CYBIS)
22:20:26 <Sgeo> There's also a BASIC simulator, and the help makes it seem like it's simulating a specific BASIC, but I can't figure out which one. There's a USING statement that runs one different line, but people keep getting confused with PRINT USING when I describe it
22:20:37 <Sgeo> https://github.com/Sgeo/0basim
22:22:45 <korvo> I think the biggest thing in group theory since the 70s is Abelian and additive categories; there's structure to group homomorphisms and exact sequences which was only known then for specific situations ((co)homology mostly) which gets its own treatment today.
22:23:50 <Sgeo> The lesson defines Abelian categories (as meaning that the operation is commutative)
22:23:54 <korvo> Last I checked, the classification of finite simple groups was still not complete. The folks involved all believe that the core lemmas are proven, but there's no rack of books that one can put on their shelf and say "and this shelf holds the complete classification." It's certainly not fully formalized in e.g. Lean yet.
22:23:59 <Sgeo> *Alebian groups
22:24:43 <korvo> Yeah. An Abelian category is a category like the category Ab of Abelian groups; it generalizes Abelian-group theory to other contexts.
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22:26:37 <Sgeo> Oh hey, there's a Chess variant on this thing
22:26:38 <Sgeo> In this learning activity the student works with algebraic
22:26:38 <Sgeo> chess notation and with elementary checkmates. The student
22:26:38 <Sgeo> may also play a chess variant, "Alice in Wonderland Chess,"
22:26:38 <Sgeo> which has two boards.
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22:31:20 <Sgeo> https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/db3d720455e651bb3323f4a22e58d368
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23:11:16 <korvo> Can't believe I have to wait four more hours before I can give feedback on this blog post. Maybe tamales will help.
23:15:09 <int-e> Sgeo: initially, will one of the boards be empty?
23:15:49 <Sgeo> int-e, yes, botttom board is empty
23:16:06 <int-e> the one fun thing is that a queen by itself can capture a king
23:16:33 <Sgeo> All I figured out is that a typical chess opening is probably a really bad idea. Leaves king or queen exposed
23:16:45 <int-e> hmm, or does this only work in one parity, hmm
23:17:18 <int-e> Eh I won't think about it much.
23:18:30 <int-e> if queen and king are on opposite planes then the queen can chase down the king and move on top of it, and capture it on the next move
23:18:55 <int-e> so that's kind of cute. also completely unlike chess
23:19:30 <int-e> (I'm looking at this on the queen's move)
23:20:36 <int-e> (I'm assuming that the usual rules about moving into check are not in effect and replaced by capturing the king)
23:39:00 <Sgeo> I can certainly try it out. Or read the source. I don't think this one supports remote multiplayer though
23:40:55 <Sgeo> Oops tried to check black but forgot my queen would fall
23:41:26 <Sgeo> It let me move the king into check
23:42:30 <Sgeo> Uh. I tried to capture with black king with the white queen. The black king survived, the white queen didn't. Unless I typoed
23:43:38 <Sgeo> It's not enforcing which player can move which pieces
23:44:33 <Sgeo> There's stuff in the help about some rules not being enforced
00:03:38 <int-e> Sgeo: "it's not enforcing which player can move which pieces" -- that sounds like a problem :P
00:04:30 <int-e> (it's good for a laugh in tic-tac-toe)
00:08:53 <b_jonas> Sgeo: what language is that written in?
00:09:12 <b_jonas> I mean the basic simulator
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00:27:28 <Sgeo> b_jonas, TUTOR
00:30:03 <Sgeo> The code might look a bit weird because I only know how to get source code out by "printing" it, printers of the day were limited in character sets, so the system faked some characters by overlapping. Also alternate fonts were allowed in source code, and basim apparently decided to use that to make fancy NEXT and BACK graphics
00:30:32 <Sgeo> Also because TUTOR is a bit of a weird language
00:33:50 <Sgeo> Here's one fun oddity... conditional statements
00:34:00 <Sgeo> command expression,tagneg,tag0,tag1...
00:34:20 <Sgeo> expression is rounded, if it's negative command uses tagneg, if it's 0 command uses tag0, etc
00:34:36 <Sgeo> Comparison operators use -1 as a true value, so that's convenient
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05:07:58 <korvo> ais523: This was a good blog post. I'd like to share it with Lobsters, if that's alright. I noticed that you don't appear to have a handle there; LMK if you'd like an invite.
05:09:19 <korvo> It was quite interesting to see a presentation without negation or linear implication. I suppose that Rust would not have a reasonable use for negation, and also that the self-duality of linear logic would not correspond to the ability to run Rust code backwards.
05:12:18 <korvo> It's kind of surprising that ? is not a functor. I would normally expect it to carry a (IIRC) monad, actually; there should be natural T -o ?T and ??T -o ?T for all T. But I suppose that Rust has other plans. After all, type negation isn't how Rust represents holes, so why-not doesn't have to be how Rust represents piracy.
05:14:33 <korvo> I really like the idea of ⅋ as collating an object with many methods, of which the caller may use exactly one. That's new to me. It also gives an idea of interpreting negation as stronger-than-necessary preconditions.
05:16:16 <korvo> BTW I don't think ⅋ has a standard name. I call it "paramends". It's got "par" like Girard would want, and a couple other puns, like being an anagram of "ampersand".
05:18:36 <korvo> As I'm sure you know, ! embeds intuitionistic logic; whenever X -> Y, also !X -o Y. This suggests a kind of grand compilation scheme from Cartesian-closed to compact-closed categories which is fairly low-level: negation is allocated memory, why-not is piracy, of-course is ROM or defunctionalized constants, linear implication is mutation.
05:21:03 <korvo> I'm not sure exactly *what* the mutator looks like, though. To use an analogy, when linear logic says X -o Y, it means that we can take an X and chop off one arm and get a Y; the contraposition ~Y -o ~X means that we can take a Y-shaped hole and dig a fourth arm and make an X-shaped hole. (Your font may vary.) So a mutation has to represent both the forwards chop-off-an-arm and backwards dig-a-trench actions simultaneously.
05:21:31 <b_jonas> Sgeo: so you can use that as either a two-way true/false conditional, a three-way negative/zero/positive conditional, or an on-goto with an enumeration
05:22:02 <b_jonas> probably useful for an interpreter like this that needs to have a few long ones to switching on statements and switch on built-in functions or other keywords
05:23:32 <korvo> ais523: I dunno. In summary, this was rad. This was the first time in a long time that I've believed that linear logic is ever a correct choice for computers; I'm normally in the Cartesian-closed/multicategory/operad camp. But you're absolutely right about the naturality of this ? piracy.
05:38:09 <korvo> Oh, one more thought. ! acts like a source and ? acts like a sink; for !T we may obtain as many T as we like, while ?T lets us discard as many extra T as we have. If ! is for things that can be copied, is ? for things that can be...destroyed? Sent? Something might be going on there.
05:38:28 <korvo> Alright, sleep time. Peace.
07:09:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Geno * New user account
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08:01:13 <ais523> korvo: feel free to post the link on sites like lobste.rs – blog posts are generally intended to be shared
08:02:14 <ais523> I was surprised at linear logic being this relevant too (which is partly why it took me so long to think of it) – every other use of it that I've seen has just been as a method of defining the particular substructural type system that you actually wanted to use (which is often but not always intuitionistic logic)
08:03:29 <ais523> (part of the reason that the blog post took so long to write was that I was trying to understand ⅋ well enough to be able to explain it to other people)
08:04:14 <ais523> fwiw, in terms of standard names, I might be unusual in that i don't need to name symbols at all if there's a standard way of writing/typing them
08:05:08 <ais523> writing about Rust is difficult because the borrow operator & is to me just a symbol, I can use it just fine, but when I try to use it in a sentence it's sometimes preceded by a/an and then I get stuck because I don't know whether or not it starts with a vowel (I don't have a mental pronunciation of it)
08:07:21 <ais523> also, the ! / ? duality is that a ! is a resource that can be used an arbitrary number of times, whereas processing a ? may require an arbitrarily large amount of resources (thus, anything you might use to process the ?, you need an infinite supply of)
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08:27:26 <ais523> returning a ?T is like saying "I have extra T and I am going to make *you* deal with them"
08:28:03 <ais523> so a ?T isn't a T sink, it's the converse of a T sink – you don't use it to get rid of a T, you return it to get rid of a T
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09:59:11 <fizzie> Our internet service was down.
10:00:05 <fizzie> It'd be nice if the ISP had a proper outage status thing, they've got a "checker" but all it ever says is "service may be disrupted", with no details about whether they know what the problem is or if they might have an estimate for when it's fixed.
10:03:29 <fungot> ais523: what's ml good for business apps?" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 2832 files for each target basically, i try to build ccbi
10:09:56 <esolangs> [[Chicken you too beautiful]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164637&oldid=137884 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+234) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Chicken you too beautiful programming language on GitHub and supplemented page category tag Implemented.
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11:21:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164638&oldid=164631 * I am islptng * (+175) /* I saw your message */
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12:28:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AUnitSquare * New user account
12:33:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164639&oldid=164636 * AUnitSquare * (+306)
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15:00:55 <korvo> ais523: Oh, that's an interesting way of thinking of things. I normally think of ?T as an endpoint, not a thing that can be passed around. Good food for thought.
15:02:18 <korvo> https://lobste.rs/s/ccy3b6/pirate_based_logic_rust_shared
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16:28:50 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164640&oldid=164610 * Hotcrystal0 * (+36)
16:41:19 <esolangs> [[Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164641&oldid=164640 * Aadenboy * (+42) kill server 2 + replace non-esolang on server 5
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20:52:13 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164642 * Iloveunicorns * (+573) Created page with "<p>I love unicorns. Esolangs too.<br> Im learning CSS, HTML and MediaWiki for decorating this page<br><br>I using Python for my interpreters, but i can tell ChatGPT write me interpreter on HTML or JS/Java.<br><br>I remember I made a visual interpreter fo
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23:40:14 <esolangs> [[Il]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164643 * Iloveunicorns * (+2192) Created page with "{{infobox proglang | name = Il | paradigms = Imperative, Accumulator-based | author = [[User:Iloveunicorns]] | year = 2025 | class = Total | majorimpl = Python | influenced = [[BittyLang]], [[Deadfish]], etc. }} '''Il''' is an esolang was
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09:19:41 <esolangs> [[Il]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164644&oldid=164643 * Iloveunicorns * (+1) /* Language Description */
09:38:08 <esolangs> [[Tessenbly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164645&oldid=156816 * Somebody142857 * (+99)
10:01:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164646&oldid=164639 * CCigC * (+13)
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10:29:33 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164647&oldid=164642 * Iloveunicorns * (+22)
10:40:56 <esolangs> [[BrainfisHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164648&oldid=104723 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+418) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the BrainfisHQ9+ programming language on GitHub and marked the extant implementation's provenance as absent.
10:55:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Il]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164649 * Iloveunicorns * (+396) Created page with "This page is a discussion of esolang [[Il]], not a dating site or anything like that. <br> This is where you share your opinion about Il. Or add contribution to this. __TOC__ ==just other's opinions about esolang== Just increment and decrement... ~~~~ ==WHO CA
11:06:13 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164650&oldid=164647 * Iloveunicorns * (+805)
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12:36:42 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164651&oldid=164096 * Ais523 * (+28) /* S */ +[[The Subtyping Machine]]
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16:20:23 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164652&oldid=164650 * Iloveunicorns * (+262)
16:20:55 <b_jonas> wait, tom7's video is out. is there a list for that?
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16:35:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Smolder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164653&oldid=158762 * Aadenboy * (+317)
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17:13:19 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164654&oldid=164652 * Iloveunicorns * (+384)
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17:21:50 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164655&oldid=164654 * Iloveunicorns * (+10) /* My greeting in esolangs.org was...: link fix */
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17:23:43 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164656&oldid=164655 * Iloveunicorns * (-1) /* My greeting in esolangs.org was...: link fix */
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18:33:09 <esolangs> [[Arthmtc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164657 * Iloveunicorns * (+786) Created page with "{{WIP}} {{lowercase}} {{infobox proglang |name=arthmtc |paradigms=Accumulator-based |author=[[User:Iloveunicorns]] |year=2025 |class=Finite state machine |majorimpl=Python |influenced=[[Deadfish]] }} :''plz check this infobox and change it because i think its uncor
18:36:46 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164658&oldid=164555 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Interpreter */
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19:00:00 <esolangs> [[How dare you fuck the brain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164659&oldid=164658 * Ractangle * (-9) /* Interpreter */
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19:40:18 <esolangs> [[WholesomeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164660&oldid=105207 * MijiGamin1 * (+36) added truth machine
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20:45:07 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164661&oldid=163395 * MihaiEso * (+10) /* Other things that I prefer */
20:45:26 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164662&oldid=164661 * MihaiEso * (+1) /* My age */
20:56:27 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164663&oldid=141208 * MihaiEso * (-1)
21:14:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BadT2^8 * New user account
21:20:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164664&oldid=164646 * BadT2^8 * (+311)
21:30:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164665&oldid=160728 * I am islptng * (+204) /* Websim??? */ new section
21:32:09 <esolangs> [[Poetic (Mihai Popa)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164666&oldid=151469 * I am islptng * (+0) PUT MY NAME DOWN!!! I'M NOT ISLPTNG I'M islptng, GOT IT?
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22:55:15 <fizzie> I made an audible chuckle at: "I found this by computer search, namely, after trying myself I looked it up on the Internet and found that someone else had solved it."
23:07:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:Colouring-helloworld.png]]"
23:27:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SzszszszszszszsZ * uploaded "[[File:Colouring.png]]": Name and logo of the esolang [[Colouring]].
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02:35:00 <esolangs> [[Geometry Dash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164669&oldid=132084 * PkmnQ * (+132) /* Documentation */
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07:29:38 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164671&oldid=164656 * Iloveunicorns * (+13) /* My esolangs */
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08:19:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Simoteam * New user account
08:22:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164672&oldid=164664 * Simoteam * (+282)
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09:18:27 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164673 * Simoteam * (+376) Created page with "<div style="background-color: blue; color: white; padding: 10px;"> Hello, we are SimoTeam.<br> We are friends logged in to one and same account.<br> We are making esolangs and other software. </div> <div style="background-color: white; color: black; padding: 10px;
09:43:50 <esolangs> [[Talk:Il]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164674&oldid=164649 * Ractangle * (+285) /* WHO CAN WRITE SHORTEST INTERPRETER??? */
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10:27:34 <esolangs> [[XKCD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164675 * Simoteam * (+1451) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=XKCD |paradigms=accumulator-based |author=[[User:Simoteam]] |year=2025 |majorimpl=Python, JS }} , BittyLang [[XKCD]] is accumulator-based esolang for [[XKCD Random Number]] ==Overwiev== XKCD can '''output [[XKCD Random Number]], input [[XKCD
10:28:41 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164676&oldid=164534 * Simoteam * (+17)
10:29:02 <esolangs> [[XKCD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164677&oldid=164675 * Simoteam * (-34)
10:29:27 <esolangs> [[XKCD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164678&oldid=164677 * Simoteam * (+5)
10:29:36 <esolangs> [[XKCD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164679&oldid=164678 * Simoteam * (-6)
10:36:37 <esolangs> [[BittyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164680&oldid=163503 * Simoteam * (+90)
11:10:47 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164681&oldid=164673 * Simoteam * (+41) /* Our esolangs list */
11:14:26 <esolangs> [[Simoteam]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164682 * Simoteam * (+27) Redirected page to [[User:Simoteam]]
11:23:08 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164683&oldid=164681 * Simoteam * (+122)
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11:30:09 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164684&oldid=164683 * Iloveunicorns * (+66) /* About Our */
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11:59:06 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164685&oldid=164684 * Iloveunicorns * (+391)
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12:17:11 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164686&oldid=164685 * Iloveunicorns * (+122) /* About Our */
12:21:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Arthmtc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164687 * Iloveunicorns * (+379) Created page with "This page is a discussion of esolang [[arthmtc]], not a dating site or anything like that. <br> This is where you share your opinion about Il. Or add contribution to this. __TOC__ ==just other's opinions about esolang== Calculator.~~~~ ==WHO CAN WRITE SHOR
12:22:43 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164688&oldid=164671 * Iloveunicorns * (+28)
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12:41:46 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164689&oldid=164686 * Simoteam * (+1) /* About Our */
12:52:02 <esolangs> [[XKCD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164690&oldid=164679 * Simoteam * (+15) /* Examples */
13:21:17 <esolangs> [[F,u,c,k.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164691 * Simoteam * (+700) Created page with "[[F,u,c,k.]] isn't [[brainfuck]], it is esolang, using f, u, c, and k as commands, inspired by [[Love]] ==overview== F,u,c,k, uses <code>f</code>, <code>u</code>, <code>c</code>, <code>k</code> as commands. They are using for: {| class="wikitable" !f |output "Hello, wo
13:22:15 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164692&oldid=164676 * Simoteam * (+26)
13:28:02 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164693&oldid=164689 * Simoteam * (-1) /* About Our */
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13:51:02 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164694&oldid=164693 * Simoteam * (+410)
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13:51:40 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164695&oldid=164694 * Simoteam * (+8) /* We need people! */
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14:06:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Simoteam]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164696 * Ais523 * (+656) Created page with "== Account sharing == Please do ''not'' share an account between multiple people, and instead to each use your own accounts. The software powering esolangs.org does not work very well when multiple people share an account, e.g. it allows anyone to reset the pa
14:06:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:Simoteam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164697&oldid=164696 * Ais523 * (-3) typo fix
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14:28:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164698&oldid=164697 * Simoteam * (+221) /* Account sharing */
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14:36:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:S*n]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164699 * MijiGamin1 * (+25) dumb joke
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15:53:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Il]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164700&oldid=164674 * Corbin * (+886) /* WHO CAN WRITE SHORTEST INTERPRETER??? */ More aggressive dispatch-dict pattern and less exec() for a shorter program that is an expression instead of a compound statement.
15:54:36 <esolangs> [[Il]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164701&oldid=164644 * Corbin * (+0) Fix typo in infobox.
15:59:45 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164702&oldid=164350 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1375)
16:01:13 <korvo> bbchallenge has claimed a value for BB(5): https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.12337
16:04:40 <int-e> https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8088 (note the date)... the paper is new though
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16:39:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Il]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164703&oldid=164700 * Ractangle * (+162) did stuff
16:39:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Il]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164704&oldid=164703 * Ractangle * (+2) /* WHO CAN WRITE SHORTEST INTERPRETER??? */ AAA
16:44:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Arthmtc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164705&oldid=164687 * Ractangle * (+210) /* just other's opinions about esolang */
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17:30:38 <esolangs> [[User:Simoteam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164706&oldid=164695 * Simoteam * (+158)
17:33:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Simoteam]]": cross-namespace redirect
17:35:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ais523 * blocked [[User:Simoteam]] with an expiration time of indefinite (autoblock disabled): shared-use account please stick to one person per account (this block is specifically on the account due to being shared, not on the users controlling it)
17:37:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:Simoteam]]": account is blocked due to being shared use, and some of the content of the userpage was inappropriate
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17:49:18 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164707&oldid=164635 * C++DSUCKER * (+106)
18:00:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zeroname * New user account
18:08:35 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164708&oldid=164672 * Zeroname * (+401)
18:32:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Policy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164709&oldid=142289 * Corbin * (+469) /* Multiple people per account */ new section
18:39:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zeroname]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164710 * Corbin * (+906) Answering some questions.
18:46:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zeroname]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164711&oldid=164710 * Zeroname * (+112)
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19:15:57 <korvo> Currently reading https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235222082100050X?via%3Dihub "The origins of the halting problem". The claim is that Turing's 1937 paper actually proves something slightly different than the normal phrasing of Halting.
19:20:28 <korvo> I will need a day to understand what to document, but at first read, and going back to Turing, it looks like it's worth crediting Davis' 1958 book with the modern statement of Halting. I think I also want to write down a bit about the Turing hierarchy and degrees of undecidability and document beeping TMs.
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19:57:20 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164712 * Zeroname * (+16430) Created page with "InfityTOC esolang was planned to be an esolang with so long TOC(Contents list) ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !+ |increment the accumulator |- !- |decrement the accumulator |- !o |output the accumulator as number |- !. |output the accumulator as ascii |- !h |Hell
20:05:04 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164713&oldid=164688 * Iloveunicorns * (+9)
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20:25:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Policy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164714&oldid=164709 * Hotcrystal0 * (+504)
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20:42:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164715&oldid=164638 * I am islptng * (+1922) /* Your "names in other languages"?? */ new section
20:54:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Policy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164716&oldid=164714 * Ais523 * (+831) /* Multiple people per account */ some thoughts
21:13:54 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164717&oldid=164291 * I am islptng * (+665) /* Other things */
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22:18:43 <esolangs> [[Kittytype]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164718 * Lim95 * (+3214) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=KittyType |author=[[User:Lim95]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |dimensions=One-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |files=<code>.txt</code>, <code>.ktt</code> |majorimpl = [https://github.com/Lim98SE/kittytype Python
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00:08:44 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164719&oldid=164702 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2076)
00:50:53 <zzo38> I made up a list of some nonstandard ISO 2022 codes, including some used by DEC and by X window system and some that I made up by myself and later might be usable in other programs that use ISO 2022.
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01:43:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Il]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164720&oldid=164704 * PkmnQ * (+375) /* WHO CAN WRITE SHORTEST INTERPRETER??? */
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02:57:58 <esolangs> [[Computable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164721&oldid=163950 * Corbin * (+2855) /* Via Turing machines */ Do the minimum required to accomodate Lucas' argument. I think that they argued it well, but I don't have access to Kleene 1952 to double-check. "Satisfactoriness" is quite the word.
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05:23:46 <esolangs> [[Hate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164722 * None1 * (+1199) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Love |author=[[User:None1]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |majorimpl=Python }} '''Hate''' is esoteric programming language using commands <code>h</code>,<code>a</code>, <code>t</code>, and <code>e</code>. ==Language description== [[Love]] is a usele
05:24:00 <esolangs> [[Hate]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164723&oldid=164722 * None1 * (+0) /* Python (with "!") */
05:24:25 <esolangs> [[Love]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164724&oldid=164474 * None1 * (+20) /* Language description */
05:32:17 <esolangs> [[User:Tpaefawzen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164725&oldid=159319 * Tpaefawzen * (+125)
05:35:36 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164726&oldid=164069 * None1 * (+37) /* General languages */
05:38:43 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164727&oldid=164524 * None1 * (+37)
06:02:52 <esolangs> [[Setler]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164728&oldid=163175 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+61)
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06:22:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:InfityTOC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164729 * Iloveunicorns * (+218) Created page with "==Languages without an InfityTOC interpreter (yet)== To make the TOC longer, I suggest a PowerShell interpreter. ~~~~"
06:26:47 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164730&oldid=164712 * Iloveunicorns * (+23) /* Commands */
06:38:36 <esolangs> [[R + S]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164731&oldid=164707 * C++DSUCKER * (+1)
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07:21:34 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164732&oldid=164731 * C++DSUCKER * (+59)
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08:35:08 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164733&oldid=164730 * Zeroname * (-15115) Replaced content with "InfityTOC esolang was planned to be an esolang with so long TOC(Contents list) ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !+ |increment the accumulator |- !- |decrement the accumulator |- !o |output the accumulator as number |- !. |output the accumulator as as
08:39:40 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164734&oldid=164732 * C++DSUCKER * (+275)
08:42:45 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164735&oldid=164734 * C++DSUCKER * (+9)
09:02:16 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164736&oldid=164735 * C++DSUCKER * (+495)
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09:05:23 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164737&oldid=164733 * Zeroname * (+617) /* Commands */
09:09:18 <esolangs> [[User:Zeroname]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164738 * Zeroname * (+181) Created page with "==My questions== #Are there IP bans here? Is VPN usage allowed? #Can I skip the platform rules? I'm feeling lazy, and I think there's too much text. ==My esolangs== [[InfityTOC]];"
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09:10:53 <esolangs> [[User:Zeroname]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164739&oldid=164738 * Zeroname * (+51) /* My questions */
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09:22:07 <esolangs> [[Beatnik]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164740&oldid=141537 * JIT * (+6) /* Hello, world */
09:22:14 <esolangs> [[User:Zeroname]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164741&oldid=164739 * Zeroname * (+51) /* My questions */
09:25:13 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164742&oldid=156109 * JIT * (+0) /* Hello, World! */
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11:18:15 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164743&oldid=164717 * I am islptng * (+17)
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11:34:30 <esolangs> [[Zeroname/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164744 * Zeroname * (+107) Created page with "=1= ==2== ===3=== ====4==== =====5===== ======6====== =======7======= ========8======== =========9========="
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16:18:31 <esolangs> [[Everyday]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164745 * Iloveunicorns * (+1) Dont delete this page!! After two weeks you will know what i do
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16:50:55 <esolangs> [[UA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164746 * Iloveunicorns * (+1326) Created page with "[[UA]] is 'ukrainish' esolang, only outputing national things of Ukraine. ==commands== {| class="wikitable" !command !descripton |- !required !required |- |h||output the hymn |- |f||describe the flag with output |- !optional !optional |- |0||output the " " song
16:51:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Everyday]]": this wiki is for documenting esolangs, and creating a page one character at a time is not an esolang if you have an esolang to document, write a page descibing it in one go if you don't, don't create the page
16:52:51 <esolangs> [[UA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164747&oldid=164746 * Iloveunicorns * (+5) /* interpreter in python */ I forgot there was no markdown here and accidentally wrote '```'! I fixed it here.
16:53:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Game:Esochain]]": not a description of an esolang this wiki is for documenting esolangs, not for playing games, and there are reasons to want it to stay ontopic I left this page up for a while, but it's been too long now
16:54:28 <esolangs> [[UA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164748&oldid=164747 * Iloveunicorns * (+15) /* commands */ also small fix
16:54:45 <ais523> I think at some point we need to have a big discussion about the "this wiki is for documenting esolangs", but I'm not feeling up to it right now
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16:55:43 <ais523> in particular, a) the way in which a page describing an esolang is created is not itself an esolang, b) it's fairly common for people to create pages in the hope that they'll end up creating an esolang but it rarely seems to work in practice
16:58:08 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164749&oldid=164713 * Iloveunicorns * (+89)
16:58:15 <korvo> I was thinking about proposing some sandbox policy. I can propose policy around this, too. I fully agree on (a) and I think (b) is understandable given that writing an interpreter isn't always obvious.
16:59:19 <ais523> I mean, people create a page without a spec and hope that an esolang will be edited onto it
17:00:22 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164750&oldid=164749 * Iloveunicorns * (+68) /* My sorries */
17:01:59 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164751&oldid=164750 * Iloveunicorns * (-2) /* My sorries */
17:02:31 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164752&oldid=164751 * Ais523 * (-107)
17:03:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Ais523 * Ais523 changed visibility of 9 revisions on page [[User:Iloveunicorns]]: content hidden
17:07:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Iloveunicorns]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164753 * Ais523 * (+407) answering a request on the userpage
17:07:52 <esolangs> [[UA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164754&oldid=164748 * Iloveunicorns * (+164)
17:17:07 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164755&oldid=164752 * Iloveunicorns * (+9) /* My sorries */
17:17:45 <esolangs> [[User:Iloveunicorns]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164756&oldid=164755 * Iloveunicorns * (+8) /* My esolangs */
17:28:14 <korvo> Yeah. I've more-or-less adopted the mindset of the baxxid guard here: https://www.valsalia.com/comic/out-of-placers/oops-245-2/
17:29:00 <korvo> But at the same time it's been quite enlightening to think about how the attitudes displayed by youngsters here evolve into the attitudes shown by adults pushing boring slop languages.
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18:25:12 <esolangs> [[Varstak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164757 * * (+347) Started
18:38:59 <b_jonas_> ais523: one fun exception is when we document an esolang that already independently of the wiki doesn't exist: Feather and PL/MIX
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19:51:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164758&oldid=164546 * Hotcrystal0 * (+464)
19:57:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164759&oldid=163987 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2302) Blanked the page
19:57:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164760&oldid=164759 * Hotcrystal0 * (+50)
19:57:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Game:Esochain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164761&oldid=164760 * Hotcrystal0 * (+358)
19:58:36 <esolangs> [[User:47/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164762&oldid=152428 * 47 * (-28) wait hold on lemme remove this if i am not really active at this point
20:02:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Policy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164763&oldid=163241 * Hotcrystal0 * (+108) No shared accounts (ais523 please check this over)
20:04:25 <esolangs> [[User:7rigs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164764&oldid=162549 * Ractangle * (-58) /* Creations / Contributions */ you already shown the links to the page, why do you even need to put the links again
20:07:29 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164765&oldid=164758 * Hotcrystal0 * (+537)
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20:09:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164766&oldid=164765 * Hotcrystal0 * (+105)
20:11:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164767&oldid=164766 * Ractangle * (+265) /* Personal information? */
20:50:30 <esolangs> [[User:Zeroname]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164768&oldid=164741 * Zeroname * (+170)
20:56:27 <esolangs> [[User:Zeroname]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164769&oldid=164768 * Zeroname * (+74) /* My esolangs */
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01:47:47 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164770 * CreeperBomb * (+3615) Created page with "[[Switchboard]] is a [[Turing tarpit]] with zero instructions and one operation. It is comprised of data in a "board" and a data pointer which moves and operates according the board. It was created in September 2025 by User:CreeperBomb. The board is an array of
02:10:46 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164771&oldid=164598 * RainbowDash * (+3249) Binary/Base manipulation
02:15:02 <esolangs> [[Bunnicula]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164772&oldid=160634 * RainbowDash * (-114) whatever i guess we can remove this this isn't a polished article but i would rather just leave this one to the gutter.
02:16:08 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164773&oldid=164246 * RainbowDash * (+131) Mystuff.org
02:18:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:Infinite noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164774&oldid=163077 * RainbowDash * (+205) /* i don't know how to remove articles */ new section
02:25:14 <esolangs> [[Branchless Algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164775&oldid=164771 * RainbowDash * (+3) pythonize
03:22:16 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164776&oldid=164770 * CreeperBomb * (+47) Formatting
04:16:26 <zzo38> What is the proper way to retrieve the raw certificate chain that the other side sent when using the OpenSSL C library?
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06:58:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Amen-under-Wu * New user account
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08:13:14 <APic> Talk like a Pirate Day!
08:13:16 <APic> Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
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08:55:35 <esolangs> [[Rotator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164777 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+848) Created page with "'''Rotator''' is an esolang based on [[brainfuck]] by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]. ==Description== Rotator has wrapping tape of 5 nonnegative unbounded cells, and <code><</code> was removed. Another change is that after a command is executed pointer is moved right.
08:55:57 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164778&oldid=164617 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+13) /* 2025 */
09:08:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * None1fan * New user account
09:14:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * New user account
09:17:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164779&oldid=164708 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+240)
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10:03:39 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164780 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+180) Created page with "hi esolangers. idk what i can tell about me, but list of my esolangs is lower ==esolangs list== ===what am I striving for?=== I'm aiming for 1,000 languages. 0/1000 ===esolangs==="
10:43:50 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164781&oldid=164737 * Zeroname * (-1850) Replaced content with "People, how do I delete this page? I changed my mind about creating the language, so consider it defunct."
10:44:05 <esolangs> [[User:Zeroname]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164782&oldid=164769 * Zeroname * (-89) /* My esolangs */
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11:01:44 <esolangs> [[User:7rigs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164783&oldid=164764 * Ais523 * (-181)
11:02:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Ais523 * Ais523 changed visibility of 4 revisions on page [[User:7rigs]]: content hidden
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11:04:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164784&oldid=164767 * Ais523 * (-907) /* Personal information? */ posting information that is too personal is indeed not allowed it potentially puts the user at risk in the future, as the information is often used as part of security questions / identity verification and that makes the person in question ea
11:04:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Ais523 * Ais523 changed visibility of a revision on page [[User talk:Ais523]]: content hidden
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11:07:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164785&oldid=164729 * Ais523 * (+410) /* Deleting pages */ new section
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11:42:55 <ais523> lots of netsplits recently
11:49:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Infinite noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164786&oldid=164774 * Ais523 * (+500) /* i don't know how to remove articles */ some thoughts
12:04:14 <esolangs> [[DownRight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164787&oldid=140910 * Keymaker * (+5531) Added my Cyclic Tag translation, Minsky Machine translation, Miserie (state + queue language) translation, and some other things. Time to bring more attention to this lang!
12:08:30 <ais523> oh, I'd mostly forgotten about DownRight
12:09:43 <esolangs> [[Miserie]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164788 * Keymaker * (+3729) A state + queue language made to be translatable into DownRight.
12:27:03 <esolangs> [[Minsky Machine to DownRight translation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164789 * Keymaker * (+4046) Two Minsky Machine to DownRight translations.
12:28:35 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164790 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+779) Created page with "{{Distinguish/Confusion|Dot|Dot's}} '''DOT.''' is esolang that uses <code>D</code><code>O</code><code>T</code><code>.</code> commands ==Language description== DOT. is [[:Category:Output only|output only]] [[esoteric programming language]] that can output
12:29:03 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164791&oldid=164780 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+9) /* esolangs list */
12:29:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Miserie]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164792 * Ais523 * (+1734) some thoughts on the relationship between Miserie and [[Esimpl]]
12:30:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Miserie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164793&oldid=164792 * Ais523 * (+41) clarify
12:39:47 <ais523> I do have the advantage of having ↓ and → keys on my keyboard (AltGr-U, AltGr-I), so it's easier for me to type DownRight than it is for Keymaker
12:41:45 <esolangs> [[DownRight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164794&oldid=164787 * Ais523 * (+35) see also [[Re:direction]] because I just noticed how similar it is
12:42:06 <esolangs> [[Re:direction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164795&oldid=75852 * Ais523 * (+16) /* See also */ [[DownRight]]
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13:11:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited/PasteBin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164796&oldid=163933 * Pifrited * (+128)
13:23:57 <esolangs> [[Miserie to DownRight translation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164797 * Keymaker * (+11865) This is a bit confusing but I can't do better at the moment. I hope to make this better sometime.
13:38:25 <esolangs> [[DOT./Implementations]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164798 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+2079) Created page with "[[DOT.]] was planned to be implemented in lots of different languages, both practical and esoteric, but for now there are 4 of them. ==J== ===[https://www.oracle.com/java/ Java]=== <pre>import java.util.Scanner; public class Main {
13:41:16 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164799&oldid=164790 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+99) /* Implementations */
13:41:50 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164800&oldid=164799 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (-4) /* Implementations */
13:46:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164801&oldid=159367 * Hotcrystal0 * (+448)
13:46:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164802&oldid=164801 * Hotcrystal0 * (+9)
13:50:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164803&oldid=164802 * Ais523 * (+378) /* Name */ didn't need memory for this one
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14:09:24 <esolangs> [[DOT./Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164804&oldid=164798 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+886)
14:14:01 <esolangs> [[User:TheSpiderNinjas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164805&oldid=163188 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+23)
14:21:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164806&oldid=164779 * Amen-under-Wu * (+330)
14:25:58 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164807&oldid=164800 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+134)
14:30:58 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164808&oldid=164807 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+12) /* Examples */
14:34:12 <esolangs> [[User:Amen-under-Wu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164809 * Amen-under-Wu * (+344) Created page with "I am Amen-under-Wu, currently an undergraduate. My blog page is on https://amen-under-wu.github.io . I put my so called "artworks" as well as some ideas there. Note that the blog (although uses the template provided by w3schools) is a clear immitation o
14:53:43 <esolangs> [[Setler v2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164810 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+4252) idk base thing isnt really a wiki page yet
14:54:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164811&oldid=154322 * Hotcrystal0 * (+12)
14:59:20 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164812&oldid=164808 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+2297)
15:15:59 <esolangs> [[Setler v2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164813&oldid=164810 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+19)
15:29:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ThrowAwayLurker * New user account
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15:32:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164814&oldid=164806 * ThrowAwayLurker * (+279) /* Introductions */
15:34:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164815&oldid=164811 * Ais523 * (-3) undo revision [[Special:Diff/164811|164811]] by [[Special:Contributions/Hotcrystal0|Hotcrystal0]] ([[User talk:Hotcrystal0|talk]]), and replace it with a corrected version the link made no sense after the edit, what it was trying to do is clarify that LifeWiki is
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16:15:34 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164816&oldid=164812 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (-83)
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16:37:23 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164817&oldid=164781 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1850) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/164781|164781]] by [[Special:Contributions/Zeroname|Zeroname]] ([[User talk:Zeroname|talk]]) this wiki is for documenting esolangs even if they are defunct
16:37:49 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164818&oldid=164817 * Hotcrystal0 * (-4)
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17:23:00 <ais523> so Keymaker asked, in effect, whether a tag system (or its close relatives that have similar control flow) can store numbers in linear space
17:23:59 <ais523> I think the answer is yes, but it's nontrivial – in order to decrement a number n you have to cycle through the queue log(n) times in order to allow n-1 of the queue entries that make up the number to learn that they're not the entry you're trying to delete
17:24:21 <ais523> n log n performance is weird, but way better than exponential
17:30:24 <esolangs> [[Setler v2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164819&oldid=164813 * TheSpiderNinjas * (-18)
17:30:30 <esolangs> [[User:Amen-under-Wu/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164820 * Amen-under-Wu * (+297) Created page with "'''AnkleSprain''', as its name hints, is an esolang based on the concept of little girls' ankle sprains. It is designed by [[User:Amen-under-Wu]] in [[2025]]. ==Overview== AnkleSprain programs are based on the imaginary scene where, in an infini
17:32:05 <esolangs> [[InfityTOC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164821&oldid=164818 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1846) Replaced content with "People, how do I delete this page? I changed my mind about creating the language, so consider it defunct."
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18:11:31 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164822 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2204) Created page with "'''Slingshot''' is an esolang created by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] in 2025 based on [[Incrementing machine]] and [[ZISC]] ==Description== Program is a list of nonnegative integers seperated by spaces which represent initial memory tape with indexes starting at
18:12:46 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164823&oldid=164778 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+15) /* 2025 */
18:15:03 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164824&oldid=164776 * ThrowAwayLurker * (+10)
18:15:09 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164825&oldid=164823 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+10) /* 2025 */
18:15:31 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164826&oldid=164824 * ThrowAwayLurker * (+1)
18:21:51 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164827&oldid=164822 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* Computational class */
18:23:09 <esolangs> [[Setler v2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164828&oldid=164819 * Thatgaypigeon * (+274) Draft markup
18:23:39 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164829&oldid=164827 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* Computational class */
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18:34:17 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164830&oldid=159608 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-87)
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18:42:40 <esolangs> [[Setler v2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164831&oldid=164828 * TheSpiderNinjas * (-1709) thing created by chatgpt which i will refine and correct
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18:57:52 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164832&oldid=164825 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+66) /* Languages(In Chronological order) */
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19:15:55 <esolangs> [[X strike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164833&oldid=122731 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* Computational class */ fix typo
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19:32:37 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164834&oldid=164829 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+18)
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19:49:38 <esolangs> [[Setler v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164835&oldid=164831 * Corbin * (+29) Tag as AI-generated.
19:50:31 <esolangs> [[Varstak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164836&oldid=164757 * * (+143)
20:00:30 <esolangs> [[Kilobyte]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164837 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+290) Created page with "{{WIP}} [[kilobyte]] is [[esoteric programming language]] whats interpreter in python veights KB(1024 B) ==Commands== {{WIPsec}} {| class="wikitable" !command!!description |- |<code>*</code>||output the accumulator as ASCII-character |} ==Implementati
20:31:51 <esolangs> [[Stack based]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164838&oldid=119281 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+52)
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20:34:59 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164839&oldid=164834 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2) /* Computational class */
20:36:20 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164840&oldid=164839 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1) /* Execution */
20:36:46 <esolangs> [[Slingshot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164841&oldid=164840 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+9) /* Computational class */
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21:18:42 <esolangs> [[Kilobyte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164842&oldid=164837 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+1030) /* Implementation */
21:19:55 <esolangs> [[Kilobyte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164843&oldid=164842 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+9)
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21:20:46 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164844&oldid=164791 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+1) /* what am I striving for? */
21:20:58 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164845&oldid=164844 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+13) /* esolangs */
21:21:31 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164846&oldid=164845 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+1) /* esolangs */
21:59:25 <esolangs> [[12]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164847 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+1820) Created page with "'''12''' isn't [[11]], [[10]], etc.. 12 just has 12 commands. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !command!!description |- |<code>+</code>||increment |- |<code>-</code>||decrement |- |.||output (as number) |- |,||output (as ASCII) |- |*||multiply by 2 |- |^
22:01:02 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164848&oldid=164846 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+8) /* esolangs list */
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00:24:17 <esolangs> [[Q-SET]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164849&oldid=109600 * ThrowAwayLurker * (+34) /* Commands */ Unescaped "|"s in table
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01:00:43 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164850&oldid=164826 * CreeperBomb * (+1097)
01:02:24 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164851&oldid=164850 * CreeperBomb * (+24) /* Execution */
01:06:56 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164852&oldid=164851 * CreeperBomb * (+206)
03:21:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Davidwg * New user account
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03:37:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164853&oldid=164814 * Davidwg * (+179) Introduction
03:38:40 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164854&oldid=162974 * Davidwg * (+0) Fix definition of R (Robin)
03:44:27 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164855&oldid=164854 * Davidwg * (+8) Fix definition of W and shorten definition of M
03:47:36 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164856&oldid=164855 * Davidwg * (+5) Add rank of I (Identity)
03:50:42 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164857&oldid=164856 * Davidwg * (+30) Add rank and notes for O (Owl)
03:53:03 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164858&oldid=164857 * Davidwg * (+17) Add rank and notes for R (Robin)
04:09:53 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164859&oldid=164858 * Davidwg * (+17) Add rank and notes for Q (Queer bird)
04:12:38 <korvo> Ah, excellent, I'm glad that they're filling in the table I started.
04:16:46 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164860&oldid=164859 * Davidwg * (+17) Add rank and notes for V (Vireo)
04:25:46 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164861&oldid=164860 * Davidwg * (+19) Add SKI alternate for C (Cardinal)
04:28:02 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164862&oldid=164861 * Davidwg * (+0) Add SKI alternate for M (Mockingbird)
04:33:09 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164863&oldid=164862 * Davidwg * (+0) Add SKI alternate for T (Thrush)
04:36:41 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164864&oldid=164863 * Davidwg * (+8) Add SKI alternate for R (Robin)
05:21:39 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164865&oldid=164864 * Davidwg * (+9) Add SKI alternate for L (Lark)
05:27:47 <esolangs> [[Varstak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164866&oldid=164836 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+35)
05:28:21 <esolangs> [[VarStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164867&oldid=118935 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+34)
05:44:05 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164868&oldid=164865 * Davidwg * (+7) Add SKI alternate for Q (Queer bird)
05:52:07 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164869&oldid=164868 * Davidwg * (+17) Add rank and notes for Y (Sage bird)
05:54:18 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164870&oldid=164869 * Davidwg * (+14) Add SKI alternate for Y (Sage bird)
06:32:23 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164871&oldid=164870 * Davidwg * (+1) Remove spaces from definition of Iota
07:15:59 <esolangs> [[Primepocalypse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164872 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1064) Created page with "'''Primepocalypse''' is a derivative of [[Brainpocalypse II]] by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]. ==Commands== There are two accumulators, called A and B. A is set to 0 and B is set to 1 {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Description |- | <code>+</code> || Inc
07:16:24 <esolangs> [[Primepocalypse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164873&oldid=164872 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* Commands */
07:16:52 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164874&oldid=164832 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+20) /* 2025 */
07:17:11 <esolangs> [[Brainpocalypse II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164875&oldid=148323 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+20) /* See also */
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07:50:30 <esolangs> [[DoWhileFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164876&oldid=119658 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+58)
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08:43:27 <esolangs> [[Spain without the S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164877&oldid=143957 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+28)
08:44:45 <esolangs> [[DOT.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164878&oldid=164816 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+338)
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08:57:23 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164879&oldid=164830 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+48)
09:19:59 <esolangs> [[Esimpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164880&oldid=140562 * Ais523 * (+3) /* Text syntax */ fix thinko
09:28:22 <esolangs> [[DOT./Implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164881&oldid=164804 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+2121)
09:33:05 <esolangs> [[Pointstack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164882&oldid=164213 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
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10:14:52 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164883&oldid=154326 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+23)
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10:22:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Special archive for level 5]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164884 * PrySigneToFry * (+56) Created page with "This page is the special archive for level 5 discussion."
10:23:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Special archive for level 5/Before 9.20]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164885 * PrySigneToFry * (+27004) Created page with "==Your signature== Shouldn't be blue? Currently your signature, it's length isn't balanced. <pre> | | ..."
10:23:47 <esolangs> [[DNA-Script]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164886 * EiroWarn * (+4) Creating Tests
10:24:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Special archive for level 5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164887&oldid=164884 * PrySigneToFry * (+123)
10:26:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164888&oldid=164715 * PrySigneToFry * (-26794)
10:27:32 <esolangs> [[User:EiroWarn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164889&oldid=161324 * EiroWarn * (-45)
10:37:17 <esolangs> [[Huh?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164890&oldid=146270 * PrySigneToFry * (+394)
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11:57:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Why027 * New user account
12:08:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164891&oldid=164853 * Why027 * (+176)
12:10:09 <esolangs> [[User:Why027]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164892 * Why027 * (+134) Created page with "Hello, I want to share some of my esolangs and compilers to them Although I've been offline for over 1.5 years now I am starting fresh"
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12:30:58 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164893&oldid=164719 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1023)
12:40:12 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164894&oldid=164606 * Ractangle * (+407)
12:42:14 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164895&oldid=164894 * Ractangle * (+106) /* Stuff */
12:42:37 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164896&oldid=164895 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Stuff */
12:51:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Flicknut8 * New user account
12:57:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164897&oldid=164891 * Flicknut8 * (+176) /* Introductions */
12:58:39 <esolangs> [[Flicknut8]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164898 * Flicknut8 * (+111) /* User*/
12:59:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Flicknut8]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164899 * Flicknut8 * (+79) /*User talk*/
13:00:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Flicknut8]] to [[User:Flicknut8]]: wrong title man
13:00:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Talk:Flicknut8]] to [[User talk:Flicknut8]]: wrong title man
13:05:31 <fungot> int-e: you could make ' c'.) followed by ( fnord) etc? what're them parens doing there? fnord fizn throwing gren... uh, nothing. i'm thinking of
13:50:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Flicknut8]]": redirect left over after a page created in the wrong namespace was renamed to the correct namespace
13:50:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Talk:Flicknut8]]": Deleted together with the associated page with reason: redirect left over after a page created in the wrong namespace was renamed to the correct namespace
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14:04:07 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164904&oldid=163619 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Esolangs */
14:05:11 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164905&oldid=164896 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Stuff */
14:15:19 <esolangs> [[StarPL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164906 * PrySigneToFry * (+11145) Created page with "StarPL is a programming language designed by PSTF. = Overview = StarPL is a programming language that is very strong and easy to learn. It was inspired by Zig and Python. = Our First Program = <pre> use STDIO.SLB let namespace <- std; proc main start print("Hel
14:16:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164907&oldid=164621 * PrySigneToFry * (+13)
14:53:34 <esolangs> [[Template:Snakel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164908&oldid=147789 * Ractangle * (+14)
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15:02:23 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164909&oldid=164871 * Davidwg * (+29) Add SKI alternate for V (Vireo)
15:08:31 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164910&oldid=164909 * Davidwg * (-3) Lower case Omega bird
15:14:08 <esolangs> [[Primepocalypse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164911&oldid=164873 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+157) /* Computational class */
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15:14:53 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164912&oldid=164910 * Davidwg * (+13) Add applicative note to Y (Sage bird)
15:16:16 <esolangs> [[Primepocalypse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164913&oldid=164911 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* Computational class */
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15:18:10 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164914&oldid=164912 * Davidwg * (+19) Fix name and note of Iota
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15:30:13 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164915&oldid=164914 * Davidwg * (+1) Add SKI alternate for W (Warbler)
15:38:27 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164916&oldid=164915 * Davidwg * (+48) Add linear note where appropriate
15:41:53 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164917&oldid=164916 * Davidwg * (+8) Add linear note to G (Goldfinch)
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15:49:00 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164918&oldid=164917 * Davidwg * (+8) Add linear note to Iota
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15:53:16 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164919&oldid=164918 * Davidwg * (-26) Linear combinators of rank 1 are not applicative
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16:00:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ibombgaza * New user account
16:05:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ais523 * blocked [[User:Ibombgaza]] with an expiration time of indefinite (autoblock disabled): inappropriate username
16:24:39 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164920&oldid=164919 * Corbin * (+20) /* Table of combinators */ Bluelinks.
16:29:58 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164921&oldid=164920 * Corbin * (+210) /* Table of combinators */ Quickly annotate the remaining linear combinators. A combinator is linear if it's expressible in BCI/BTI/GI and this turns out to be easy to check at a glance.
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17:22:41 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164922&oldid=164921 * Aadenboy * (+18) /* Table of combinators */ class="wikitable"
17:27:33 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164923&oldid=164922 * Corbin * (+418) /* BCI calculus */ Add a lemma mentioned by davidwg. Where might this have originated? It sounds like Smullyan.
17:28:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MiloIzVannoy * New user account
17:36:38 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164924&oldid=164923 * Corbin * (+0) Move references to the very end; this seems to be the emerging house style.
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17:45:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164925&oldid=164897 * MiloIzVannoy * (+357)
17:46:52 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164926 * MiloIzVannoy * (+2912) Created page with "{{stub}} {{wrongtitle|title=FAG}} '''Fucking Assembly Geniusness''' is a [[brainfuck]] extension and esoteric programming language designed by [[User:MiloIzVannoy]] in 2025. It is designed to be a practical low-level language while retaining th
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18:38:18 <esolangs> [[Am I?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164927 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+586) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Am I? |author=[[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] |year=2025 |majorimpl= }} {{Stub}} '''Am I?''' is joke language thats randomly outputs '''yes''' or '''no'''. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" ! !!Output it with LF!!Output it
18:45:54 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164928&oldid=164848 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+11) /* esolangs list */
18:50:50 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164929&oldid=164928 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (-16)
18:56:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164930 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+227) Created page with "None1, you got the names mixed up. Or is that how it's supposed to be? ~~~~"
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19:08:37 <esolangs> [[Love]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164931&oldid=164724 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+21)
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19:28:21 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164932 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+124) Created page with "=Hellooooooooooooooooo= '''Hellooooooooooooooooo''' It's not related to [[Hello]], it's just... I haven't figured it out yet"
19:31:52 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164933&oldid=164929 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+125)
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19:55:26 <esolangs> [[Colory]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164934 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+533) Created page with "{{Stub}} '''Colory''' is useless esoteric programming language outputs colors and its names ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |r||red |- |o||orange (It's problematic, so this command is not used. ) |- |y||yellow |- |g||green |-
19:57:12 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164935&oldid=164933 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+12) /* esolangs list */
19:59:17 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164936&oldid=164924 * Corbin * (+569) Clean up my earlier edit and strengthen the result.
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20:06:17 <esolangs> [[Am I?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164937&oldid=164927 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+221)
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20:16:43 <esolangs> [[If a==1:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164938 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+340) Created page with "{{stub}} '''If a==1:''' is esoteric programming language, where program ends correctly, if a==1, but if a!=1, program outputs f"ERR: {a}". ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !command!!description |- |<nowiki>+</nowiki>||inc |- |<nowiki>-</nowiki>||dec
20:17:10 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164939&oldid=164935 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+14) /* esolangs list */
20:17:42 <esolangs> [[If a==1:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164940&oldid=164938 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+20)
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20:36:59 <esolangs> [[DEA FIS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164941 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+737) Created page with "'''DEA FIS''' is [[esoteric programming language]] related to standart variation of [[Deadfish]]. DEA FIS using 3-characteric commands. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !command!!description |- |INC||Increment |- |DEC||Decrement |- |SQU||Square |- |O
20:38:41 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164942&oldid=164939 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+13) /* esolangs list */
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21:02:27 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164943&oldid=164942 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+549)
21:22:14 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164944&oldid=164932 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+110)
21:47:12 <esolangs> [[ ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164945 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+1427) Created page with "''' ''' ''(it will be FUCK MOUTH in english)'' It's somewhat similar to [[small]]. uses the and commands. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |||increment acc |- |||Output acc as ASCII |} I don't know if the delimiter counts as
21:49:57 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164946&oldid=164943 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+27) /* esolangs list */
21:55:31 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164947&oldid=164946 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+152)
21:59:42 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164948&oldid=164947 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+103)
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22:08:12 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164949&oldid=164926 * Ractangle * (+0)
22:11:20 <esolangs> [[If a==1:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164950&oldid=164940 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+285)
22:12:25 <esolangs> [[If a==1:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164951&oldid=164950 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+51) /* Examples */
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22:32:36 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164952 * Aadenboy * (+2446) language "inspired" by all of the name = command languages. absolutely TIRED of them. please be creative. [[HQ9+]] was a one-time joke not a standard
22:34:08 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164953&oldid=164948 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+42) /* Congratulate me because.. */
22:35:14 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164954&oldid=164578 * Aadenboy * (+706) /* my own esolangs */ add [[a=ab=bc=cd=d!]]
22:36:22 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164955&oldid=164953 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+48) /* Other */
22:36:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164956&oldid=164907 * Aadenboy * (+20) /* A */ add [[a=ab=bc=cd=d!]]
22:41:19 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164957&oldid=164955 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+50) /* Where i live? */
23:14:05 <esolangs> [[Fruit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164958 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+490) Created page with "'''Fruit''' is [[esoteric programming language]] that uses fruits names as commands ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |Apple||Increment |- |Banana||Decrement |- |Watermelon||Output the accumulator as ASCII |- |Melon||Output the
23:15:58 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164959&oldid=164957 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+11) /* esolangs list */
23:18:23 <korvo> I'm concerned that IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet is spamming; their user page suggests that they want to create 1000 pages.
23:19:29 <ais523> there seems to be a whole community that seems to value making as many esolangs as possible, rather than making *good* esolangs
23:20:17 <ais523> but I need to go to bed, and this will probably wait until tomorrow (and may end up fixing itself, it's hard to keep up that pace long-term)
23:20:59 <ais523> (and it's not obvious yet whether or not there is a problem)
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23:25:17 <int-e> wtf are https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Pages_with_math_errors and https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Pages_with_math_render_errors
23:29:44 <fizzie> One of those magic MediaWiki things, where if you create it, it gets populated. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Math/en#Tracking_categories
23:34:57 <esolangs> [[0. Or 1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164960 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+284) Created page with "'''0. Or 1''' is not related to [[0]], nor [[1]]. It somewhere related to [[Love]], or [[deadfish]], idk ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |0.||Decrement |- |1||Increment |- |Or||Output |} ==Interpreter== ===Python=== {{WIPsec}
23:36:43 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164961&oldid=164959 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+69)
23:41:52 <int-e> fizzie: Oh so the tagging of pages is automatic too? I guess that's fine then.
23:46:58 <esolangs> [[Fruit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164962&oldid=164958 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+510)
23:51:37 <int-e> Except, does it actually work? https://esolangs.org/wiki/%CE%A0%E2%82%81 looks like it renders fine, for example
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23:59:05 <int-e> Oh. "Failed to parse (SVG (MathML can be enabled via browser plugin): Invalid response ("Math extension cannot connect to Restbase.") from server "https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/":): {\displaystyle 2}" sounds like pages got onto there due to intermittent errors. Possibly Wikipedia protecting endpoints against crawlers? (currently visible on https://esolangs.org/wiki/Serenity )
23:59:08 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164963&oldid=164961 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+149)
00:00:48 <int-e> fizzie: So that looks like the math plugin uses a wikipedia API endpoint internally. Is that just how it works or a configuration error?
00:15:54 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164964&oldid=164963 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+222) /* Other */
00:17:48 <fizzie> AIUI, that's the easiest way to set it up, and seemed to be at least tacitly allowed. Properly self-hosting it seemed to be just a big hassle. But it was all rather opaque.
00:18:50 <int-e> Okay that makes sense.
00:20:35 <fizzie> Although reading https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Math/en#Mathoid_as_a_service "Wikimedia plans to discontinue RESTBase services including the Mathoid endpoint used by Math extension by default, though there is no specific EOL date yet. For sites using newer MediaWiki versions, Native MathML mode is recommended instead."
00:21:25 <fizzie> So apparently Extension:Math now knows how to do MathML (just without the image fallback) without the server-side support.
00:22:27 <fizzie> And there's apparently also a MathJax mode now (MediaWiki ≥ 1.42).
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00:57:31 <esolangs> [[Everyday]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164965 * Tommyaweosme * (+1646) Created page with "Everyday is a program created by [[User:Tommyaweosme]], following in the trend of making new esolangs after an Esolang page of the same name gets deleted. == Control flow == Programs are run every day. A maximum of one command can be placed each day. It will alway
00:59:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Tommyaweosme * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Tpcs hello world.png]]": real interpretation of it
01:00:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Tommyaweosme * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Tpcs truth machine.png]]": real interpretation of it
01:03:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164968 * Tommyaweosmalt * (+303) Created page with "once you do come up with a name, you'll have to make a new account. [[user:tommyaweosme|<span style="color:green;">tommyaweosme(alt so can edit talk page)</span>]] :thats preposterous!!! just ask an admin [[user:tommyaweosmalt|<span st
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03:09:07 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164969&oldid=164936 * Davidwg * (+27) Minor table cleanup
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05:51:25 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164970&oldid=164852 * CreeperBomb * (-1) Wrong number
05:51:46 <esolangs> [[Switchboard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164971&oldid=164970 * CreeperBomb * (+0)
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09:04:46 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164972&oldid=164964 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+39) /* My dreams and goals in esolangs.org */
09:07:37 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164973&oldid=164972 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+91) /* My favourite things */
09:28:55 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164974&oldid=164944 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+191)
09:31:17 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164975&oldid=164973 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+87)
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09:54:07 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164976&oldid=164949 * MiloIzVannoy * (+36)
10:19:47 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164977&oldid=164976 * MiloIzVannoy * (+87) /* Loop Break: */
10:28:57 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164978&oldid=164977 * MiloIzVannoy * (+45)
10:31:47 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164979&oldid=164978 * MiloIzVannoy * (-29) /* Bitwise Operations */
10:55:31 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164980&oldid=164979 * MiloIzVannoy * (+53) /* Instruction Repetition: (code)*hex */
11:03:58 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164981&oldid=164980 * MiloIzVannoy * (+234)
11:15:15 <esolangs> [[SletScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164982&oldid=161994 * I am islptng * (+99)
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12:09:11 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164983&oldid=164975 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+14)
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12:45:49 <esolangs> [[CLC-INTERCAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164984&oldid=122827 * Tpaefawzen * (+74) /* External resources */
13:30:24 <esolangs> [[Hate]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164985&oldid=164723 * None1 * (+0)
13:31:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164986&oldid=164930 * None1 * (+350)
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14:32:16 <esolangs> [[Esimpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164987&oldid=164880 * Ais523 * (+9) /* Computational class */ I think I'm confused about what "linear slowdown" means, so write what I think I meant in a more unambiguous way
14:33:25 <esolangs> [[Esimpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164988&oldid=164987 * Ais523 * (+9) /* Computational class */ replace a second instance of "linear slowdown"
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15:32:31 <ais523> OK, these are probably contiguous
15:32:44 <HackEso> [U+2074 SUPERSCRIPT FOUR]
15:32:54 <ais523> the superscripts aren't, so I was a bit worried
15:40:14 <esolangs> [[Cammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164989&oldid=161216 * Corbin * (+169) Add cite where I said that Unison and Dark were inspirations.
15:41:24 <korvo> BTW a linear slowdown, for an input program of length n, means that the output program needs n times more effort to emulate each action of the input. By contrast, a constant-factor slowdown means that there's some fixed k for which only k times more effort is required.
15:41:37 <korvo> I agree that they probably didn't mean "linear" here.
15:43:13 <korvo> I can't think of a good example offhand. Defunctionalization incurs a log n slowdown; a program of length n can have O(n) different functions, and encoding a call for one of them takes O(log n) space, so a program which is primarily composed of functions and function calls will need O(log n) space just for representations.
15:44:31 <korvo> ...but then we're at another issue: we've conflated slow execution with big encoding. Big encodings have to be slow to decode, but maybe not slow to execute? So it's very dependent on the cost model we've chosen.
16:02:02 <ais523> I don't normally care much about esolang speed, but recently have realised that caring about it can be an interesting field to study
16:03:25 <ais523> it would be fun to write an O(n log n)-slowdown BF interpreter in a tag system
16:03:47 <ais523> (on a scale where O(1) means a constant-factor slowdown)
16:25:58 <b_jonas> I actually have an esolang complexity question. If I want to do computations with pen and paper, which we model as a RAM machine with a constant number of writable registers but all the RAM cells are restricted to starting from zero and writable only once, you can simulate an ordinary RAM machine program that runs for t time in O(t↑(1+ε)) time, right? how about a more restricted version, where each
16:26:04 <b_jonas> cell of the RAM is writable once and it's undefined behavior to read a cell that hasn't been written yet?
16:26:46 <b_jonas> I think the latter might be too restricted to do useful computation
16:27:32 <b_jonas> at least in a RAM way, but you can still write it in order and read it back for like polynomial slowdown, so who knows, maybe you can do something even better
16:29:41 <b_jonas> yes, that latter model is not for pen and paper anymore, and probably doesn't even have a good motivation
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16:39:50 <esolangs> [[Globe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164990 * Ais523 * (+9011) new language I'm not sure this is finished but thought I'd post this so that people see where my thoughts are so far
16:40:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164991&oldid=164956 * Ais523 * (+12) /* G */ +[[Globe]]
16:40:51 <esolangs> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164992&oldid=162372 * Ais523 * (+11) +[[Globe]]
16:42:11 <ais523> b_jonas: in your "RAM that's writable once and UB to read if uninitialised" model, how does arithmetic work? it feels vaguely like that might be important
16:42:23 <ais523> in particular I think we need writable temporaries (like an accumulator) to do arithmetic on
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16:45:58 <ais523> hmm, I'm trying to apply that model to a Turing machine (i.e. "you can only write on blank tape, and must not visit blank tape except in states where all the trasitions are the same) and suspect it might be sub-TC, at least I can't immediately figure out how to program in it
16:46:29 <ais523> s/trasitions/transitions/
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17:15:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zinnia Glean * New user account
17:17:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164993&oldid=164925 * Zinnia Glean * (+185)
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17:20:38 <esolangs> [[Globe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164994&oldid=164990 * Ais523 * (+4587) thoughts on efficiently compiling to and from Globe
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17:24:09 <esolangs> [[Linefeed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164995 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+314) Created page with "''''Linefeed''' is [[esoteric programming language]] to output linefeed and some other non-printable and non-visible characters ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command!!Description |- |lf||output linefeed |- |tab||output tab |- |bs||output backsp
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17:24:37 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164996&oldid=164983 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+14) /* esolangs list */
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18:00:35 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, we have a bunch of general purpose registers that can store numbers, also used as addresses, the program decides how many registers there are but a constant number for any one program, and those registers can be written as many times as you want as normla
18:00:59 <ais523> b_jonas: what's to stop you just using the registers as a counter machine and ignoring the memory?
18:03:23 <b_jonas> yes, that's also a problem with a normal RAM machine. I don't know a good way to solve it. maybe the registers start as 32 bit wide, then after 2↑16 time steps they and the memory cells suddenly grow to 64 bit wide, then after 2↑32 time steps the registers and memory cells grow to 128 bit wide, then after 2↑64 time steps they grow to 256 bits wide etc. that leaves the program enough time to
18:03:29 <b_jonas> transition from a 32-bit address space to a 64-bit one, even if it has to copy all its data and reformat it.
18:04:17 <b_jonas> (unlike in reality, when people still used 16-bit wide addresses when they had more than 64 kilobytes of RAM+ROM, then similarly for 24-bit and 32-bit addresses, and similar issues for on-disk formats with large disks)
18:04:51 <ais523> in bank-switching systems the notion of an address becomes a bit fuzzy
18:06:05 <ais523> hmm, what about making it so that you couldn't decrement the counters? only increment?
18:06:23 <esolangs> [[Scratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164997&oldid=154904 * Arctenik * (+194) Add implementations to infobox to remove default "unimplemented" value
18:06:51 <ais523> actually no, that's still uninteresting, you just store n-1 at address n and use a RAM read as your decrement
18:07:07 <ais523> it does force you to use the RAM but not in an interesting way
18:09:03 <b_jonas> the better solution would probably be to throw out the RAM part and use a pointer machine, one with finite control and finitely many registers storing an address, any address points to a structure with a constant number of fields, as many as the program wants. the program steps can cons a new structure whose fields are empty, car any field with a compile-time constant name from a cell pointed to by a
18:09:09 <b_jonas> register, compare a register to null and conditional jump, copy a register to another, or write the value of a register to any empty field in a structure pointed to by another register.
18:10:27 <b_jonas> but with the shenanigans that write-once memory requires, I'm not sure if RAM doesn't provide some additional power somehow. it probably doesn't. also I was originally thinking of pen and paper, which corresponds to RAM more easily than to a pointer machine.
18:12:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Scratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164998&oldid=151725 * Arctenik * (+304) /* Unimplemented??? */ Fixed infobox
18:24:14 <esolangs> [[Msimsismikiamoanwkwjwkaks k ks.akalekwkzjskskaklsjsa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164999 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+2177) Created page with "'''Msimsismikiamoanwkwjwkaks k ks.akalekwkzjskskaklsjsa''' is the dumbest and the hardest [[esoteric programming language]]. '''Msimsismikiamoanwkwjwkaks k ks.akalekwkzjskskaklsjsa''' may seem complicated d
18:25:09 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165000&oldid=164996 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+58) /* esolangs list */
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18:48:30 <int-e> `learn Haywire was the duct tape of the early 20th century.
18:48:36 <HackEso> Learned 'haywire': Haywire was the duct tape of the early 20th century.
18:50:32 <HackEso> al gore//Al Gore invented the algorithm.
18:53:26 <HackEso> 1/1:840) <Phantom_Hoover> it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham \ 1280) <ais523> hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps
18:56:56 <ais523> HackEso: thanks for the reminder, I guess – I had forgotten that
18:57:35 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165001&oldid=164952 * Aadenboy * (-4) /* Truth Machine */ fix example
18:58:03 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165002&oldid=164954 * Aadenboy * (-4) /* ESOLANGS */ fix example
18:59:46 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165003&oldid=165001 * Aadenboy * (+27)
19:01:11 <korvo> fungot: what's the syntax for searching the quote db?
19:01:11 <fungot> korvo: generally, fnord codes, but status codes. :( http://www.guardian.co.uk/ fnord/ spec.html
19:01:29 <korvo> fungot: speak of xanadu
19:01:29 <fungot> korvo: easier to write that way
19:03:29 <int-e> korvo: there's `grwp
19:04:12 <int-e> it seemed rather unlikely ;-)
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19:04:29 <esolangs> [[A=ab=bc=cd=d!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165004&oldid=165003 * Aadenboy * (+11) fix examqple again
19:04:51 <HackEso> aeaaap:AEaaAP stands for "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point". It's one of the traditional requirements for Turing-completeness. \ bitcoin:bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to 21 million coins before breaking. \ bogosort:Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for
19:05:23 <int-e> (I had to check which is the case-insensitive one)
19:05:51 <int-e> it's the wrong kind of esoterics :P
19:06:05 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165005&oldid=165002 * Aadenboy * (+11) /* my own esolangs */ again
19:06:30 <int-e> which... doesn't rule out having an entry speaking of it, but as I said, it seemed rather unlikely ;)
19:13:19 <korvo> Guess not. My microblog today is commentary on commentary on Xanadu, because that's all that ever got delivered. https://awful.systems/comment/8817726
19:44:38 <HackEso> Bogosort is an efficient sorting algorithm for nondeterministic Turing machines. Taneb may have invented it.
19:53:22 <ais523> huh, nondeterministic bogosort *is* fast if the nondeterminism doesn't cost any time
19:58:20 <int-e> `cwlprits bogosort
19:59:12 <int-e> 9 years ago. I have no memory of this :)
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20:10:40 <int-e> The context was... solving Rubik's cubes? tswett suggested to do it by making random moves until it's solved. b_jonas associated that with bogosort and found that there was no entry for it yet.
20:13:20 <int-e> https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2016-03-20.html#lIh ff.
20:13:44 <korvo> Hm, that's a fun example, because I don't know whether it's in NL. It's certainly in NP, but the trick is that a solved Rubik's cube has no actions which leave it solved. So even though we know the length of the longest path under the worst assumptions, we also have to do a parity check first to know the parity of that path's length.
20:14:07 <korvo> Oh, wait, of course it's in NL if it's in NP. We can just add the identity action as a legal move.
20:55:59 <ais523> I guess it's more like bubblebogosort because you are doing one move at a time then checking, rather than scrambling the entire cube then checking
21:08:53 <esolangs> [[Globe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165006&oldid=164994 * Ais523 * (-409) /* Syntax */ remove wildcard sugar thinking about it I don't think it's useful, so there's no point in making implementations implement it
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21:30:14 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165007&oldid=165000 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (-102)
21:38:16 <esolangs> [[User:IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165008&oldid=165007 * IHaven'tComeUpWithANameYet * (+22)
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01:26:20 <esolangs> [[User:Amen-under-Wu/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165009&oldid=164820 * Amen-under-Wu * (+727)
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02:09:37 <HackEso> grqp? No such file or directory
02:09:50 <b_jonas> ``` allquotes | egrep squirrel
02:10:01 <b_jonas> ``` allquotes | egrep -i squirrel
02:10:26 <b_jonas> oh, the squirrel is in wisdom, not quite
02:11:02 <HackEso> 9) <reddit user "othermatt"> So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? \ 777) <madbr> I like the tactile response of actually hitting real balls :D \ 1015) <Gregor> Eyeballs are delicious, but they're an ADDICTION.
02:24:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EvilRodentOfEVil * New user account
02:32:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165010&oldid=164993 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+265)
02:54:44 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165011 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+113) Created page with "Fingerfuck is a poor quality esoteric programming language inspired by qo and brainfuck, made my EvilRodentOfEvil"
02:55:59 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165012&oldid=165011 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+23)
02:57:13 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165013&oldid=165012 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+50)
02:58:53 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165014&oldid=165013 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+8)
02:59:05 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165015&oldid=165014 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+0)
02:59:18 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165016&oldid=165015 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+0)
03:18:56 <esolangs> [[User:EvilRodentOfEVil/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165017 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+3554) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Fingerfuck |paradigms= |author=[[EvilRodentOfEvil]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |influence=[[QO]], [[Brainfuck]] }} Fingerfuck is a poor quality [[esoteric programming language]] inspired by [[QO]] and [[Brainf
03:29:48 <esolangs> [[User:EvilRodentOfEVil/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165018&oldid=165017 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (-1295)
03:32:24 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165019&oldid=165016 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+2091)
03:33:55 <esolangs> [[User:EvilRodentOfEVil/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165020&oldid=165018 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+26)
03:44:21 <esolangs> [[Fingerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165021&oldid=165019 * EvilRodentOfEVil * (+58)
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07:08:17 <esolangs> [[User:Amen-under-Wu/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165022&oldid=165009 * Amen-under-Wu * (-1024) Blanked the page
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08:46:25 <esolangs> [[Globe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165023&oldid=165006 * Ais523 * (+455) partial self-rv restore the sugar but only for states that control symbol replacements, as it's useful in that case
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12:50:51 <esolangs> [[Nope]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165024&oldid=140024 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3) /* turing completeness proof */ Short Minsky Machine notation is TC with 3 registers
12:53:31 <esolangs> [[Nope]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165025&oldid=165024 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+49) /* turing completeness proof */
12:54:24 <esolangs> [[Short Minsky Machine Notation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165026&oldid=150412 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+57) /* Notation */
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13:05:16 <esolangs> [[Nope]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165027&oldid=165025 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0)
13:09:17 <esolangs> [[Nope]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165028&oldid=165027 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+64) /* turing completeness proof */
13:15:46 <esolangs> [[Short Minsky Machine Notation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165029&oldid=165026 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+275) /* Notation */
13:16:29 <esolangs> [[Short Minsky Machine Notation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165030&oldid=165029 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+5)
13:19:02 <esolangs> [[Nope]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165031&oldid=165028 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+42) /* turing completeness proof */
13:23:01 <esolangs> [[DQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165032&oldid=148885 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+112)
13:23:23 <esolangs> [[DQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165033&oldid=165032 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-29) /* Interpreter */
13:27:48 <esolangs> [[Trainhooking]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165034&oldid=145734 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+58) It needs three cells to be Turing-complete
13:30:41 <esolangs> [[BUT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165035&oldid=136639 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+74) /* translation to Minsky machine */
13:31:20 <esolangs> [[BUT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165036&oldid=165035 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+19) /* translation to Minsky machine */
13:32:11 <esolangs> [[Short Minsky Machine Notation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165037&oldid=165030 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+4) /* Extended Notation */
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14:03:47 <esolangs> [[TDQ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165038 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1573) Created page with "'''TDQ''' (or '''Turing DQ''') is an extension of [[DQ]] created by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]. ==Additions== Operations are now executed in sequential order. There are now four stacks, which could be seen as registers. Registers are named ''a'', ''b'', ''c'' and ''d
14:04:11 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165039&oldid=164874 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+9) /* 2025 */
14:04:31 <esolangs> [[DQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165040&oldid=133819 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+8)
14:05:02 <esolangs> [[DQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165041&oldid=165033 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+21)
14:06:15 <esolangs> [[TDQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165042&oldid=165038 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3) /* Minsky machine syntax */
14:06:51 <esolangs> [[TDQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165043&oldid=165042 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+30) /* Translation */
14:10:25 <esolangs> [[401]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165044&oldid=140333 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+78) /* computational class */
14:47:34 <esolangs> [[APGsembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165045&oldid=162840 * Hotcrystal0 * (-16) Cleanup of redlinks
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15:54:46 <esolangs> [[ArrowQueue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165046 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+929) Created page with "{{Stub}} '''ArrowQueue''' is a two-dimensional esolang created by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] inspired by [[Re:direction]] ==Specification== '''ArrowQueue''' uses a single queue which stores Instruction Pointer's direction. There are following commands: * - turn
15:55:36 <esolangs> [[Re:direction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165047&oldid=164795 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+17) /* See also */
15:55:58 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165048&oldid=164893 * Hotcrystal0 * (+664)
16:18:18 <esolangs> [[ArrowQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165049&oldid=165046 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+174) /* Computational class */
16:19:00 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165050&oldid=165039 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+17) /* 2025 */
16:57:34 <esolangs> [[User:EvyLah/ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165051&oldid=134251 * EvyLah * (+1040) square-1
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17:36:56 <esolangs> [[Infinite commands???]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165052&oldid=161239 * Bits bytes * (+74)
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18:42:06 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165053&oldid=164233 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+41)
18:43:04 <esolangs> [[BF (BestCoder)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165054&oldid=158839 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+45)
18:44:04 <esolangs> [[BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165055&oldid=145059 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-100) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck]]
18:47:28 <esolangs> [[User:BestCoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165056&oldid=162326 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+12) Fixed link
18:56:23 <b_jonas> ok, so for the pointer machine if it has write-once memory, you can just use it like a strict functional programming language, so you fill all fields of a structure right after consing it. you can simulate the call stack and closures easily enough. if you do this you won't try to read anything you haven't written, so the stronger version works too. you have to make sure to use wide enough trees to
18:56:29 <b_jonas> represent lists to not get much slowdown, but that should be no problem. and you can simulate the pointer machine with the similar RAM machine too.
19:21:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165057&oldid=146277 * Corbin * (+251) /* BF disambiguation */ new section
19:34:18 <esolangs> [[BF (category)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165058&oldid=145058 * Aadenboy * (+13) /* Motivation */ consistency
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06:18:26 <esolangs> [[User:Ashli Katt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165059&oldid=150672 * Ashli Katt * (+151) Add StackedDeck, and a WIP section.
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08:36:38 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165060&oldid=164609 * Lucaz37 * (+47) changed division and stuff to tell its int div
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08:53:55 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165061&oldid=165060 * Lucaz37 * (+17)
09:08:41 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165062&oldid=165061 * Lucaz37 * (+224) added comments to implementation and page, chan
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10:15:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * U * New user account
10:53:10 <esolangs> [[Fucking Assembly Geniusness]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165063&oldid=164981 * MiloIzVannoy * (+82)
11:08:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165064&oldid=165010 * U * (+166) /* Introductions */
11:09:43 <esolangs> [[Isec]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165065 * U * (+208) Created page with "isec is an PL with 1 op of memory incrementation. At last, memory'll divided into 2. isec interpreter on BF(instead of op was accepted BF-incrementation, at start must stay needable number of +) is a [-->+<]."
11:12:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165066&oldid=164991 * U * (+11) /* I */
11:15:11 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/U]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165067&oldid=164494 * U * (-27) Blanked the page
11:20:44 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165068&oldid=165065 * U * (-1)
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11:33:01 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165069&oldid=165068 * U * (-7)
11:37:24 <esolangs> [[ArrowQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165070&oldid=165049 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+669) Added unfinished CT program
12:03:48 <esolangs> [[A-Skii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165071 * Bits bytes * (+6650) Created page with "A-Skii is an esolang that has heavy inspiration from [[A very minimal esolang with a very few amount of instructions]]. It has a command for every printable ASCII character. This language is turing complete beacuse it can simulate [[Brainfuck]] which is turing complet
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12:04:27 <esolangs> [[A-Skii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165072&oldid=165071 * Bits bytes * (+1)
12:04:59 <esolangs> [[A-Skii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165073&oldid=165072 * Bits bytes * (+17) ok im actually done
12:06:59 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165074&oldid=165066 * Bits bytes * (+13)
12:08:21 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165075&oldid=165069 * U * (-4)
12:23:06 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165076&oldid=165075 * U * (-2)
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13:02:40 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165077&oldid=165076 * U * (+7)
13:07:42 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165078&oldid=165077 * U * (+7)
13:28:14 <esolangs> [[Viktor's amazing 4-bit processor]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165079&oldid=134862 * TheBigH * (+598) Put instructions into a table and also clarified them
13:34:45 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165080&oldid=165078 * U * (-14)
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15:28:01 <esolangs> [[User:Bits bytes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165081 * Bits bytes * (+90) Created page with "i made [[A-Skii]] ahhhh!!! ~~~"
15:29:19 <esolangs> [[User:Bits bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165082&oldid=165081 * Bits bytes * (+9)
15:47:31 <esolangs> [[Bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165083&oldid=58073 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14) lowercase
15:47:42 <esolangs> [[Bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165084&oldid=165083 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck]]
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16:20:04 <esolangs> [[Bf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165085&oldid=165084 * Aadenboy * (+0)
16:50:37 <esolangs> [[User:EvyLah/ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165086&oldid=165051 * EvyLah * (+33) /* square-1 */
16:54:59 <esolangs> [[User:EvyLah/ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165087&oldid=165086 * EvyLah * (+136) /* square-1 */ cube tutorial
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16:56:48 <esolangs> [[User:EvyLah/ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165088&oldid=165087 * EvyLah * (+153) /* valid tokens */ extra and probably unnecessary information
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17:58:00 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/U]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165089&oldid=165067 * Ractangle * (+27) Redirected page to [[U (Ractangle)]]
17:58:55 <esolangs> [[User:U]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165090&oldid=132553 * Ractangle * (-30) Blanked the page
18:20:06 <b_jonas> I guess an intermediate rule between write-once and (write-once but undefined behavior to read if it hasn't been written) could be that you can write multiple times but all but the first write is ignored and doesn't change the value stored
18:23:08 <esolangs> [[Viktor's amazing 4-bit processor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165091&oldid=165079 * TheBigH * (-45) Oops.
18:26:05 <esolangs> [[Viktor's amazing 4-bit processor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165092&oldid=165091 * TheBigH * (+7) rewording
18:27:55 <esolangs> [[Viktor's amazing 4-bit processor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165093&oldid=165092 * TheBigH * (-56) more rewording T_T
18:30:58 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165094&oldid=165062 * Lucaz37 * (+1)
19:49:26 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165095&oldid=165094 * Aadenboy * (+16) proper wip hatnote + categories
19:57:52 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165096&oldid=165005 * Aadenboy * (+270) /* ESOLANGS */ adding esolang drafts
19:58:05 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165097&oldid=165096 * Aadenboy * (+0) /* just some drafts */
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20:08:31 <int-e> b_jonas: hmm random trivia from a game I don't play (but watch a lot these days): Did you know that deconstruction tasks in Factorio time out after 5 hours? The wiki doesn't...
20:09:28 <int-e> at this time the best source for the timeout value I have found is https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=101595 (1080000 ticks = 5 hours)
20:26:23 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF (BestCoder)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165098 * Hotcrystal0 * (+444) Created page with "To be honest, you should pick a different name because Brainfuck is pretty well-known. ~~~~"
20:26:49 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165099&oldid=165048 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1416)
20:30:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF (BestCoder)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165100&oldid=165098 * Corbin * (+146) Disambiguation is okay.
20:35:25 <b_jonas> int-e: I know it times out in a few hours, didn't know the exact value. all ghosts time out. I think the construction robotics research used to say that in Factorio 1.1, but I'm not sure I remember that right.
20:35:59 <int-e> b_jonas: I believe the manually placed ghosts do not time out. But those from destroyed buildings do.
20:36:16 <int-e> Anyway. Just something I saw in passing.
20:37:06 <int-e> but if a manually placed ghost is on top of an existing entity and the deconstruction of that times out, the ghost is removed along with that
20:37:14 <b_jonas> ah, https://wiki.factorio.com/Ghost says "Ghosts that are placed by the player will last forever. Ghosts for destroyed entities will last a week of game time."
20:37:28 <int-e> So it's all a bit odd.
20:39:05 <b_jonas> ok, I don't really know these parts of the mechanics then
20:39:15 <int-e> Anyway. It's a curiosity to me. Hardly relevant to speedrunners, which is the context in which I'm watching this game.
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20:39:53 <int-e> Probably doesn't come up too much in casual play either. But when it does it can be confusing, as indicated by a couple of forum threads :)
20:44:00 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Zerons]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165101&oldid=156983 * Aadenboy * (+0)
20:44:04 <b_jonas> ok, I think we talked about Factorio enough that I can just put it on the list.
20:44:24 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165102&oldid=156945 * B jonas * (+35) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:45:12 <b_jonas> there are probably a few more that were discussed with chat when I wasn't paying attention
20:46:38 <b_jonas> wait, why is Patrick's Parabox not on there. we discussed Patrick's Parabox here, right?
20:46:57 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165103&oldid=165102 * B jonas * (+70) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:47:26 <b_jonas> hmm, does shapez.io count? I think only one regular played it so far.
20:47:36 <b_jonas> shapez.io 1 definitely counts
20:49:30 <int-e> feels premature... afaik I'm the only one here who's playing it (taking a break though)
20:51:01 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165104&oldid=165097 * Aadenboy * (-9) /* anything else */
20:51:42 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165105&oldid=165104 * Aadenboy * (+26) /* all subpages */
20:52:05 <b_jonas> hmm. shapez.io 1 is the gateway drug to Factorio. I wonder what effect shapez.io 2 will have then.
20:52:43 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165106&oldid=165105 * Aadenboy * (-113) /* anything else */ nvm
20:54:12 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165107&oldid=165106 * Aadenboy * (+96)
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22:31:51 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135/yuhhh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165108 * WarzokERNST135 * (+130) Created page with "Would you. Could you. '''On A Train?''' yuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh As you should know, I exist."
22:32:05 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135/yuhhh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165109&oldid=165108 * WarzokERNST135 * (+2) yuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
22:35:56 <esolangs> [[User:TheBigH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165110&oldid=118282 * TheBigH * (-6)
22:36:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:TheBigH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165111&oldid=105144 * TheBigH * (-45) Blanked the page
22:41:10 <esolangs> [[Newtons! Buts]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165112 * WarzokERNST135 * (+309) Created page with "'''Newtons! Buts''' is an esolang made by [[WarzokERNST135]]. Its commands are as follows: * N: adds 1 * E: subtracts 1 * W: gets input * T: prints output (number) * O: prints output (ascii) * S: start loop bracket * !: ends loop bracket * B: adds 10 * U: ad
22:43:50 <esolangs> [[User:WarzokERNST135]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165113&oldid=164029 * WarzokERNST135 * (+22)
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23:59:30 <esolangs> [[Shockwave flash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165114&oldid=162770 * WarzokERNST135 * (-2) /* Error quine */ Tiny fix
00:02:28 <esolangs> [[Mention]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165115&oldid=162241 * WarzokERNST135 * (-1) Fixed typo
00:10:32 <esolangs> [[Haskell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165116 * WarzokERNST135 * (+31) Redirected page to [[wikipedia:Haskell]]
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00:44:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:Haskell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165117 * Aadenboy * (+293) Created page with "why? ~~~~"
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02:32:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kotsu * New user account
02:37:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165118&oldid=165064 * Kotsu * (+173)
02:38:29 <esolangs> [[User:Kotsu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165119 * Kotsu * (+76) Created page with "Hello, I am here. I have an experiment I started. I can't wait to share it!"
02:50:08 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165120&oldid=162850 * TheBigH * (+464) Added Viktor's amazing 4-bit processor.
03:46:57 <esolangs> [[Haskell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165121&oldid=165116 * Corbin * (+313) Give a proper stub to a ''very'' influential language.
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07:39:32 <esolangs> [[Chefs kiss]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165122 * JIT * (+24) Redirected page to [[Chefs Kiss]]
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08:35:45 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165123&oldid=165080 * U * (+252)
08:39:26 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165124&oldid=165123 * U * (-252)
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08:54:52 <wib_jonas> bwahaha, MSVC's libc and GNU libc, in their fopen function, define two unrelated flags called "c"
08:56:11 <ais523> hmm… custom printf flags nearly always use capital letters, I kind-of assumed there'd be a similar rule for fopen but maybe not?
08:56:49 <wib_jonas> ais523: I don't think there's such a convention for printf
09:00:23 <ais523> hmm… every nonstandard printf specifier documented in man printf happens to be a capital letter, but that might just be coincidence, there's no mention that it's an explicit pattern
09:00:32 <ais523> and lots of standard printf modifiers are also capital letters
09:00:46 <ais523> I vaguely remember that all MSVC's nonstandard printf flags are also capital letters, but I don't have docs for that handy
09:04:08 <wib_jonas> ais523: glibc supports printf("%qd", (long long)val), where "q" is a width flag specifying a 64-bit integer in old BSDs that predates the standard "ll" and I think it might predate the 64-bit type being called "long long"
09:04:43 <ais523> wib_jonas: hmm, that appears to be a BSD extension that glibc supports for compatibility
09:05:16 <ais523> I wonder if it's old enough that it was intended to be a standard?
09:05:33 <wib_jonas> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/c-runtime-library/reference/fopen-wfopen?view=msvc-170 is Microsoft's documentation for fopen; https://sourceware.org/glibc/manual/latest/html_node/Opening-Streams.html is glibc docs for the same
09:05:35 <ais523> I'm not too acquainted with the history of BSD versus SysV
09:06:09 <ais523> (Linux kind-of awkwardly tries to be compatible with both)
09:13:17 <wib_jonas> not quite printf, but there's also a very annoying conflict: GNU libc has `char *b; fscanf(fh, "%as", &b);` as an extension to scan a dynamic length string and allocate it as if with malloc so you have to deallocate it with free. whereas C99 has `double v; fscanf(fh, "%a", &v);` for a while where any of "%g", "%G", "%e", "%E", "%f", "%F", "%a",
09:13:18 <wib_jonas> "%A" are synonymous formats that scan any floating-point format. I think the GNU libc extension predates C99, but I'm not sure.
09:13:21 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165125&oldid=165124 * U * (+4)
09:57:54 <wib_jonas> ais523: also GNU libc has `printf("%m", errno)` and I think that's also a nonstandard extension
09:58:28 <ais523> wib_jonas: yes, I agree that that one's a new lowercase extension
09:59:52 <wib_jonas> the others that I know aren't in ordinary printfs but other printf-like functions, like in python's string formatting or in sqlite3_snprintf in the sqlite3 library etc
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13:40:05 <esolangs> [[Talk:Haskell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165128&oldid=165117 * Aadenboy * (-293) Blanked the page
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14:45:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165129&oldid=165118 * NiekvD * (+151) introduction
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15:17:21 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165130&oldid=164543 * NiekvD * (+1610) added explanation to 'print value of cell x as number (8-bit)'
15:17:36 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165131&oldid=165127 * U * (-4)
15:21:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165132&oldid=164597 * Hotcrystal0 * (+442)
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16:28:57 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165133&oldid=165053 * Corbin * (+89) Restore bluelink dropped during recent redirect reconstruction. (Please reconsider before destroying disambiguations in the future, thanks.)
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17:57:43 <zzo38> The printf("%m") does not require specifying errno; it is implied
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23:05:46 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165134 * Proxxa * (+168) proglang infobox
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23:50:58 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165135&oldid=165134 * Proxxa * (+603) partially describe programs
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00:04:27 <esolangs> [[^English/MORE PROGRAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165136&oldid=132837 * WoodyFan3412 * (+712)
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00:29:26 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165137&oldid=165135 * Proxxa * (+1249) Fully describe model; describe unwrapping
00:30:05 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165138&oldid=165137 * Proxxa * (+11) /* Program Model */ Hide # in header link
00:31:20 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165139&oldid=165138 * Proxxa * (+23) /* Program Model */
00:35:24 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165140&oldid=165139 * Proxxa * (+80) /* Program Model */ clarity edit
00:35:48 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165141&oldid=165140 * Proxxa * (+11) /* Unwrapping */ clarity
00:42:12 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa/Deadbeat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165142&oldid=165141 * Proxxa * (+182) /* Unwrapping */ Change example to ordered list of execution
01:40:05 <Sgeo> Esoteric operating system idea: When creating a file, its size needs to be declared up front. It can grow, but the amount it can grow also needs to be predeclared. The file can grow to primary size + secondary size * 15
01:40:13 <Sgeo> </pretending-retrocomputing-is-esoteric>
02:16:37 <korvo> Yeah, reminds me of the UNIX-vs-Pascal arguments.
02:30:17 * Sgeo had OS/360 in mind
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03:23:43 <korvo> Started a tracking issue for NQL improvements over the past couple years: https://github.com/MostAwesomeDude/bb-gauge/issues/1 I'm hoping to establish some sort of maintained NQL toolchain.
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07:51:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * U * uploaded "[[File:Right.jpg]]"
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08:53:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jk.NDC * New user account
09:06:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165145&oldid=165129 * Jk.NDC * (+231) /* Introductions */
09:08:34 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165146 * Jk.NDC * (+40) I am a person
09:12:29 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165147&oldid=165146 * Jk.NDC * (+15)
09:29:06 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165148 * Jk.NDC * (+92) TBD
09:44:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Superscary * New user account
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09:48:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165151&oldid=165145 * Superscary * (+66)
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09:58:55 <esolangs> [[FFS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165155 * Superscary * (+4066) Created page with "= FFS (programming language) = FFS (short for For Fucks Sake) is an esoteric programming language designed as a spiritual successor to Brainfuck. It was created to retain the extreme minimalism of Brainfuck while addressing many of its usability frustrations. FFS expands
09:59:58 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165156&oldid=164726 * Superscary * (+65)
10:00:20 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165157&oldid=165154 * Jk.NDC * (+81)
10:01:26 <esolangs> [[FFS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165158&oldid=165155 * Superscary * (+83)
10:02:33 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165159&oldid=165157 * Jk.NDC * (+16)
10:12:06 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165160&oldid=165148 * Jk.NDC * (+600)
10:14:05 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165161&oldid=165160 * Jk.NDC * (+1)
10:20:52 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165162&oldid=165161 * Jk.NDC * (+131)
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13:10:03 <esolangs> [[User:TheBigH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165172&oldid=165110 * TheBigH * (+708) added esolangs and interpreters created
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14:13:17 <esolangs> [[Full Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165177&oldid=86562 * MijiGamin1 * (-11) fixed hyperlink
14:13:57 <esolangs> [[Full Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165178&oldid=165177 * MijiGamin1 * (+4) ok NOW i fixed it
14:15:21 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165179&oldid=165176 * Jk.NDC * (+1) /* What are bags? */
14:16:13 <esolangs> [[Aliquid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165180&oldid=159307 * MijiGamin1 * (+3) anti-clockwise isn't a word
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14:28:21 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165186&oldid=165185 * Jk.NDC * (+163) /* Overview */
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14:50:22 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165187&oldid=165130 * NiekvD * (-5) fixed spacing error
14:59:57 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165188&oldid=165186 * Aadenboy * (-7) proper wip hatnote, formatting, categories
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15:39:47 <esolangs> [[Aliquid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165189&oldid=165180 * PkmnQ * (-1) I've definitely heard anti-clockwise many times before (I don't use it but still)
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16:52:54 <b_jonas> re https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-08.html#lcwb the semantics of NEXT when combined with GOTO in BASIC, I found a partial answer about Microsoft BASIC at https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/NEXT#Early_exits_from_FOR-NEXT_loops and it's complicated
16:53:01 <b_jonas> well, a Microsoft BASIC derivative
16:53:21 <b_jonas> but I assume they don't differ in this respect
16:54:07 <b_jonas> for a more complete answer I assume I'd have to read the commented ROM disassemblies
16:56:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mia Boudreau * New user account
17:03:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165190&oldid=165151 * Mia Boudreau * (+176) /* Introductions */
17:15:45 <esolangs> [[User:Mia Boudreau]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165191 * Mia Boudreau * (+228) Created page with "I have a general interest for math, but in the context of the Esolang wiki, I find simple computing systems and universality interesting. [https://oeis.org/wiki/User:Mia_Boudreau OEIS Wiki] [https://github.com/miabea73/ GitHub]"
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17:51:18 <ais523> b_jonas: huh, so NEXT in at least some old BASICs and NEXT in INTERCAL are both implemented using the stack? (but in different directions)
17:51:45 <b_jonas> ais523: I don't think it's *the* stack. it's a stack.
17:52:10 <ais523> b_jonas: it says "the return stack" and following the link clarifies that it means memory from 0x100 to 0x1FF
17:52:16 <ais523> which is where the actual hardware stack is on a 6502
17:53:17 <b_jonas> I don't see how you could use just one stack for both GOSUB and FOR though
17:53:20 <ais523> (this design allows the stack pointer to be only 8 bits wide)
17:53:32 <ais523> b_jonas: you can't NEXT out of a subroutine into its caller
17:53:38 <ais523> so having them share the stack should be fine
17:54:44 <ais523> a subroutine makes no net change to the stack, nor does it care what's above it
17:55:03 <ais523> I guess this could go wrong if you did a GOTO out of a FOR…NEXT inside a subroutine, and then tried to return from the subroutine
17:56:41 <b_jonas> ais523: what happens if you FOR inside a GOSUB subroutine with the same variable as an active FOR loop outside the subroutine? the page I linked says that if you FOR with the same variable as an active FOR then the FOR stack is popped until it reaches the outer FOR loop. but then either you have to store the RETURN addresses elsewhere, or such a FOR would break the RETURN
17:57:53 <ais523> b_jonas: oh, that's probably illegal, BASIC doesn't have lexical scope I think
17:58:12 <ais523> so you couldn't use the same variable name in the subroutine and the caller
17:58:45 <b_jonas> you can use the same variable name, it just refers to the same (global) variable
17:58:56 <ais523> b_jonas: right, and you can't have two FOR loops on the same variable at once
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18:10:36 <b_jonas> if that's how it works then could you abuse this to FORGET out of a GOSUB subroutine using a dummy FOR statement?
18:12:58 <b_jonas> heck, if you could use BASIC NEXT to INTERCAL FORGET out of a BASIC GOSUB (=INTERCAL NEXT) that would be funny
18:19:43 <esolangs> [[Sqrt(x)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165192 * Why027 * (+3742) Created page with "'''Sqrt(x)''' may be one of the hardest esolangs. == Introduction == [[User:Why027]] made this language on 21th century's Square day, in an attempt to make the hardest esolang. Sqrt(x) is a Cell-based one-dimensional esoteric programming language. Why did he try to ma
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18:26:35 <esolangs> [[Settheorysucksandassuchisgreatforesolangs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165193 * * (+546) Created page with "'''Settheorysucksandassuchisgreatforesolangs''', or just '''''STSAASIGFE''''', is an esolang designed by ~~~ based around set theory. === Commands === {| class="wikitable" |- | .[n] || Creates [n] as an empty set. All set names must be a unique
18:31:17 <esolangs> [[Cammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165194&oldid=164989 * Corbin * (+1462) Many citations, including the whole bikeshed. Also many link cleanups.
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19:17:00 <zzo38> I think at least in some versions of Microsoft BASIC, you can use RETURN with a label or line number, and I have used that in one program to work like the DO RESUME #2 of INTERCAL.
19:24:49 <zzo38> (However, I think that, although GOSUB and RETURN can be used inside of a subroutine that is defined by a SUB or FUNCTION block, you cannot use RETURN with a label in that case.)
19:25:15 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares/d^3]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165195 * Aadenboy * (+14211) self-equaling cubes in base-N
19:26:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares/d^3]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165196 * Aadenboy * (+371) Created page with "whoof that is larger than I thought... should be putting this elsewhere instead... ~~~~"
19:41:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:Quintopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165197&oldid=156760 * Quintopia * (+222)
19:41:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Quintopia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165198&oldid=165197 * Quintopia * (+0)
19:42:32 <esolangs> [[Not The Main Worb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165199&oldid=82323 * Quintopia * (+10) Making room for all nine bobules (as the description indicates)
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03:34:49 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165200&oldid=165188 * Jk.NDC * (+0)
03:35:12 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165201&oldid=165200 * Jk.NDC * (+0)
03:36:01 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165202&oldid=165201 * Jk.NDC * (-163)
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04:35:19 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165203&oldid=165202 * Jk.NDC * (+2072)
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04:42:44 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165204&oldid=165203 * Jk.NDC * (+489)
04:44:05 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165205&oldid=165204 * Jk.NDC * (+6) /* Variable Commands */
04:50:36 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165206&oldid=165159 * Jk.NDC * (+298) /* Projects */
04:51:34 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165207&oldid=165206 * Jk.NDC * (+81) /* Projects */
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04:58:03 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code/Topple 1.0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165208&oldid=164482 * H33T33 * (-178)
04:59:45 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165209&oldid=164153 * H33T33 * (+295)
05:00:03 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165210&oldid=165209 * H33T33 * (+2)
05:00:41 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165211&oldid=165210 * H33T33 * (-2)
05:10:36 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165212&oldid=165211 * H33T33 * (-42)
05:18:57 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165213&oldid=165212 * H33T33 * (+6)
05:21:58 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165214&oldid=165213 * H33T33 * (+19)
05:24:07 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code/Topple 1.0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165215&oldid=165208 * H33T33 * (+40)
05:31:52 <esolangs> [[Golfscript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165216 * CanonNi * (+24) Redirected page to [[GolfScript]]
06:34:02 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165217&oldid=165173 * U * (-13)
06:35:09 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165218&oldid=164651 * U * (+11) /* I */
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09:15:01 <APic> Celebrate Bureflux! All Hail Erïs! 😇
09:25:34 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165219&oldid=165205 * Jk.NDC * (+404)
09:27:05 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165220&oldid=165219 * Jk.NDC * (+53) /* What are bags? */
09:37:15 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165221&oldid=165220 * Jk.NDC * (+418)
09:42:02 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165222&oldid=165207 * Jk.NDC * (+108) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
09:49:53 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165223 * U * (+925) Created page with "All x=1x, and x+y=1x+1y. So as that, multiplication(set of self addition) is also here. So as even integer memory measuring naturally, local nega/positivity is a path to use memory, what determining by memory mean. So as it, set of additions is leading to inv
10:21:25 <esolangs> [[Nothing Of-course, Timeless Hitchhikes In New Gardens]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165224 * Jk.NDC * (+463) Creation and Completion
10:21:55 <esolangs> [[Nothing Of-course, Timeless Hitchhikes In New Gardens]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165225&oldid=165224 * Jk.NDC * (+5)
10:23:43 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165226&oldid=165223 * U * (-1)
10:24:01 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165227&oldid=165222 * Jk.NDC * (+196)
10:24:35 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165228&oldid=165226 * U * (+12)
10:30:27 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165229&oldid=165227 * Jk.NDC * (+54) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */ Discovered <spoiler>
10:31:01 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165230&oldid=165229 * Jk.NDC * (-103) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
10:32:32 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165231&oldid=165230 * Jk.NDC * (+23) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
10:35:30 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165232&oldid=165231 * Jk.NDC * (+106) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
10:36:30 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165233&oldid=165232 * Jk.NDC * (+4) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
10:37:15 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165234&oldid=165233 * Jk.NDC * (-35) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
10:43:41 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165235&oldid=165234 * Jk.NDC * (+108) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
10:48:31 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165236&oldid=165221 * Jk.NDC * (+232) /* Possibly Important Notes About Data Types */
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10:59:53 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165237&oldid=165236 * Jk.NDC * (+6)
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12:02:16 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165238 * Jk.NDC * (+28) Created page with "<code> DOes thsi work <code>"
12:03:44 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165239&oldid=165238 * Jk.NDC * (+2)
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13:14:51 <esolangs> [[Deletion log]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165240 * MihaiEso * (+1268) Created page with "'''Deletion log''' is a esolang by Mihai Popa, after Ais523 deletes pages. == Command list == {| class="wikitable" |+ Caption text |- ! Header text !! Header text |- | Deletion log || Starts the program |- | Deleted || Ends the program |- | <code>#</code> || Swit
13:15:39 <esolangs> [[Deletion log]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165241&oldid=165240 * MihaiEso * (+0) Oops, wrong command here.
13:16:51 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165242&oldid=164662 * MihaiEso * (+65) /* List of my esolangs */
13:18:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165243&oldid=165074 * MihaiEso * (+19) /* D */
13:18:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Marcel364 * New user account
13:24:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165244&oldid=165190 * Marcel364 * (+225) I joined
13:26:31 <esolangs> [[Deletion log]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165245&oldid=165241 * MihaiEso * (+0)
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13:35:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself/Archive (01-09-2024 to 30-06-2025)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165246&oldid=162780 * MihaiEso * (+75)
13:39:08 <esolangs> [[User:Marcel364]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165247 * Marcel364 * (+485) basically everything
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13:49:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * OneAccountPlease * New user account
13:57:05 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165248&oldid=165228 * U * (-23)
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14:04:12 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165249&oldid=165248 * U * (-7)
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15:00:32 <esolangs> [[ZYXBasic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165250 * Marcel364 * (+6101) pretty much everything
15:06:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165251&oldid=165243 * Marcel364 * (+15) added ZYXBasic
15:08:39 <esolangs> [[ZYXBasic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165252&oldid=165250 * Aadenboy * (+449) /* Commands */ formatting
15:14:59 <esolangs> [[ZYXBasic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165253&oldid=165252 * Aadenboy * (-912) /* Example programs */ formatting
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16:07:35 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165254&oldid=158584 * I am islptng * (-697)
16:34:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again +3]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165255 * Jk.NDC * (+139) Created page with "Can someone explain What In the World is Going on here. --~~~~"
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19:26:29 <esolangs> [[WtE,teplw! but actually usable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165256 * * (+1223) Created page with "'''''WtE,teplw! but usable''''' is a variant of [[WtE,teplw!]] that can actually be coded in. ===Commands=== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Word !! Old meaning !! New meaning |- | Welcome || Print "Hello, World!" and a newline. || Print "Hello, World!". |-
19:26:52 <esolangs> [[WtE,teplw! but actually usable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165257&oldid=165256 * * (+5)
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19:45:40 <korvo> I've seen Raku's grammar feature and now I'm pondering giving up on Zaddy having *any* parsing. Maybe it should just be a rewrite-rule language for S-expressions. https://docs.raku.org/language/grammars
19:47:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deletion log]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165258 * Hotcrystal0 * (+414) Created page with "Would this be considered [[Category:Thematic|thematic]]? ~~~~"
19:48:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deletion log]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165259&oldid=165258 * Hotcrystal0 * (+10)
19:48:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deletion log]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165260&oldid=165259 * Hotcrystal0 * (-10)
19:48:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deletion log]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165261&oldid=165260 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
19:49:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deletion log]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165262&oldid=165261 * Hotcrystal0 * (+23)
19:54:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165263&oldid=158452 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
20:01:15 <esolangs> [[Logica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165264&oldid=157922 * Hotcrystal0 * (+18)
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21:09:02 <int-e> b_jonas: Hmm, is this known? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez1-extreme-weaving.png <-- fitting 9 belts through a corridor of width 4.
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21:28:56 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't know, I haven't followed shapez belt weaving tech
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23:18:20 <int-e> b_jonas: oh well I turned it into this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez1-nine-in-four.png (and removed the above link)
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02:27:26 <esolangs> [[Pyline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165265&oldid=163737 * YufangTSTSU * (+2)
03:43:52 <esolangs> [[StarPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165266&oldid=164906 * PrySigneToFry * (+76)
03:50:55 <esolangs> [[Enchantment]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165267 * RainbowDash * (+959) Totally rad
03:53:43 <esolangs> [[StarPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165268&oldid=165266 * PrySigneToFry * (+0) Wrong timeline number.
04:14:14 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165269&oldid=165235 * Jk.NDC * (+569) /* I EXIST */
04:14:50 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165270&oldid=165269 * Jk.NDC * (-569) /* I EXIST */
04:27:38 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165271&oldid=165249 * U * (+109)
05:07:47 <esolangs> [[SARCASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165272&oldid=163106 * RainbowDash * (+51) enchantment
05:09:17 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165273&oldid=164773 * RainbowDash * (+58) yay enchant me please
06:16:26 <esolangs> [[Enchantment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165274&oldid=165267 * RainbowDash * (+121) The minuete ddetails mattter
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07:39:38 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165275&oldid=165218 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+68)
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09:52:17 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165276&oldid=165271 * U * (-1015) Blanked the page
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10:42:40 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/A cubic box full of dried miscellaneous rock pieces form a beach for user's own playground]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165277&oldid=164161 * PrySigneToFry * (+71)
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12:07:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * U * moved [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] to [[Isec TC proof]]
12:07:37 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165280&oldid=165278 * U * (+369)
12:10:14 <esolangs> [[Why isec is turing swamp?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165281&oldid=165279 * U * (-27) Blanked the page
12:17:32 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165282&oldid=165237 * Jk.NDC * (+2519)
12:18:43 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165283&oldid=165217 * U * (+17)
12:36:16 <esolangs> [[StarPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165284&oldid=165268 * Ractangle * (+116)
12:37:53 <esolangs> [[Isec]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165285&oldid=165283 * Ractangle * (-15) there is nothing that is trigering the wiki text
12:39:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165286&oldid=164888 * Hotcrystal0 * (+439)
13:09:56 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165287&oldid=165099 * Hotcrystal0 * (+113)
13:24:19 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/Lang full of special character]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165288 * Pifrited * (+895) Wow
13:36:48 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/Lang full of special character]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165289&oldid=165288 * Pifrited * (+11)
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15:05:24 <esolangs> [[Bitmap]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165290 * Mia Boudreau * (+4934) Created page with "'''Bitmap''' is a computing system by Esolang wiki user [[User:Mia Boudreau]] that performs computations by mapping bits. == System explanation == Since <math>2</math> base-<math>2</math> digits can form <math>2^2 = 4</math> possible numbers, any bitwise operation
15:07:15 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165291&oldid=165251 * Mia Boudreau * (+13)
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15:10:02 <esolangs> [[Bitmap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165292&oldid=165290 * Mia Boudreau * (-58)
15:11:32 <esolangs> [[Bitmap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165293&oldid=165292 * Mia Boudreau * (-3)
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17:42:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DadoDev * New user account
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18:26:36 <esolangs> [[Bitmap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165294&oldid=165293 * Hakerh400 * (+24) Use the correct math notation
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23:41:35 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165295&oldid=165287 * Hotcrystal0 * (-130)
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01:11:40 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165296&oldid=165275 * U * (-11) /* I */
01:12:04 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165297&oldid=165280 * U * (-369) Blanked the page
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03:04:08 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165298&oldid=165285 * U * (+1)
03:09:02 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165299&oldid=165298 * U * (+39)
03:11:39 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165300&oldid=165297 * U * (+273)
03:12:41 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165301&oldid=165296 * U * (+11) /* I */
03:13:12 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165302&oldid=165299 * U * (+13)
03:13:26 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165303&oldid=165302 * U * (+1)
03:38:15 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165304&oldid=165303 * U * (+1)
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06:45:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sulphuris * New user account
06:55:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165305&oldid=165244 * Sulphuris * (+238)
06:56:46 <esolangs> [[User:Sulphuris]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165306 * Sulphuris * (+66) Created page with "Hi! This is my personal page. If you have any questions, ask them."
06:58:06 <esolangs> [[User:Sulphuris]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165307&oldid=165306 * Sulphuris * (+4)
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07:30:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165308&oldid=165305 * DadoDev * (+367) Introduced myself
07:43:58 <esolangs> [[MovLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165309 * Sulphuris * (+3671) Created page with "''' {{infobox proglang |name=MovLang |paradigms=imperative |author=Sulphuris |year=[[:Category:2024|2024]] |typesys= |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refimpl=[https://github.
07:56:06 <esolangs> [[MovLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165310&oldid=165309 * Sulphuris * (+114)
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08:09:06 <b_jonas> fungot, do you exacerbate at least three times a week?
08:22:16 <esolangs> [[Mel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165311&oldid=123624 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+30) Szewczyk notation need 3 counter to be TC
08:39:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165312&oldid=165291 * Sulphuris * (+14) /* M */
08:52:10 <esolangs> [[Wuht]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165313&oldid=165282 * Jk.NDC * (-1) /* Operation Commands */
08:58:32 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165314&oldid=165308 * DadoDev * (+8) ommitted "User:" from the start of my introduction
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09:55:35 <esolangs> [[BrainIf Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165315&oldid=164275 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* Definitions */
10:37:58 <fizzie> Oh, right, I had to restart the router, it probably got rid of fungot.
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11:09:12 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165316&oldid=165300 * U * (-5)
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11:51:32 <esolangs> [[Suc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165317&oldid=144712 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+234) /* Computational class */
12:02:08 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165318&oldid=165316 * U * (-24)
12:24:43 <esolangs> [[VarStack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165319&oldid=164867 * DadoDev * (+1) Fixed formatting for Hello World example
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12:36:57 <esolangs> [[User:DadoDev]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165320 * DadoDev * (+664) User page created
13:33:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DaCoder9000 * New user account
13:40:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165321&oldid=165314 * DaCoder9000 * (+215)
13:46:16 <esolangs> [[Subject-159]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165322 * DaCoder9000 * (+71) Created page with "Hello! This is my first esolang! More to come, but I'm developing it!"
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14:32:39 <esolangs> [[User:Zinnia Glean]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165323 * Zinnia Glean * (+18) Created page with "Zinnia Glean, 2025"
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14:44:43 <esolangs> [[Nio]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165324 * Zinnia Glean * (+5035) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Nio |author=[[User:Zinnia Glean]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |dimensions=One-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |files=<code>.nio</code> }} Nio is [[User:Zinnia Glean]]'s reboot of the Turing Complete stack-bas
14:46:23 <esolangs> [[Nio]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165325&oldid=165324 * Zinnia Glean * (+74)
14:47:45 <esolangs> [[Nio]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165326&oldid=165325 * Zinnia Glean * (+1)
14:51:35 <esolangs> [[User:Zinnia Glean]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165327&oldid=165323 * Zinnia Glean * (+11)
15:28:16 <esolangs> [[Finder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165328 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1497) Created page with "'''Finder''' is a [[Stack]]-based esolang created by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] in which every program is a binary string. ==Description== There is a single unbounded stack made out of unbounded values. Each loop has it's own index. Both the stack values and loop i
15:28:40 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165329&oldid=165050 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+13) /* 2025 */
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18:26:10 <esolangs> [[User:Zinnia Glean]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165330&oldid=165327 * Zinnia Glean * (+12)
18:50:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * UsernameTestTestTest * New user account
18:53:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165331&oldid=165321 * UsernameTestTestTest * (+51) /* Introductions */
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19:04:39 <esolangs> [[Adeco]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165332 * Zinnia Glean * (+2504) Created page with "Adeco is a two-dimensional stack-based esoteric programming language by [[User:Zinnia Glean]], it is supposed to represent beaded house decoration, and is read from top to bottom. {{infobox proglang |name=Adeco |author=[[User:Zinnia Glean]] |year=[[:Category:2020|20
19:05:45 <esolangs> [[User:Zinnia Glean]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165333&oldid=165330 * Zinnia Glean * (+12)
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20:23:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aspenini * New user account
20:29:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165334&oldid=165331 * Aspenini * (+225) added my, Aspenini's, introduction
21:55:39 <zzo38> Appendix C of the IBM PC Technical Reference looks like it was typeset by someone who did not actually know what most of the characters actually are supposed to be, and also switched around "C" and "D" in the column headings.
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00:47:42 <Sgeo_> Someone should document IBM RPG as though it was an esolang
00:48:13 <Sgeo_> There's a lot of vintage computing stuff that seems esoteric to modern eyes, huh.
02:00:02 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165335 * Ashli Katt * (+6950) Create page
02:00:27 <esolangs> [[User:Ashli Katt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165336&oldid=165059 * Ashli Katt * (+54) /* Languages I've Made */
02:00:32 <esolangs> [[Nothing Of-course, Timeless Hitchhikes In New Gardens]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165337&oldid=165225 * Jk.NDC * (+55)
02:04:58 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165338&oldid=165335 * Ashli Katt * (+8) Edit wording to make it clear that '>' instruction is += and not =, so to speak
02:09:03 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165339&oldid=165338 * Ashli Katt * (+197) Clarify behavior when WRITING invalid UTF-8 characters.
02:09:32 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165340&oldid=165339 * Ashli Katt * (-3) Fix list
02:10:01 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165341&oldid=165340 * Ashli Katt * (+13) Clarify exit code of previous UTF-8 change. Whoops!
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02:46:14 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165342&oldid=165270 * Jk.NDC * (-6) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
02:46:31 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165343&oldid=165342 * Jk.NDC * (+8) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
02:46:43 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165344&oldid=165343 * Jk.NDC * (+1) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
02:47:03 <esolangs> [[User:Jk.NDC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165345&oldid=165344 * Jk.NDC * (+18) /* semi-Weekly Riddle */
04:18:30 <esolangs> [[5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165346&oldid=88264 * Quuxplusone * (+102) /* Examples */ per my last email...
05:38:27 <esolangs> [[Siyu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165347 * None1 * (+1251) Created page with "'''Siyu''' (Pinyin of Chinese word meaning dead fish) is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. It is a [[deadfish]] derivative. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Corresponding Chinese word !! Meaning |- | z || zeng jia (increase) || Increment the accumula
06:05:37 <esolangs> [[Bleh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165348&oldid=144085 * Ashli Katt * (-11) Edit User: link to remove alias
06:06:16 <esolangs> [[Foreach]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165349&oldid=126931 * Ashli Katt * (-11) Edit User: link to remove alias
06:11:07 <esolangs> [[User:Ashli Katt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165350&oldid=165336 * Ashli Katt * (+3) Reword sheep link
06:17:49 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165351&oldid=165341 * Ashli Katt * (+286) /* IO */ Clarify that STDIN behavior still reads byte-by-byte
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07:34:42 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165352&oldid=165351 * Ashli Katt * (-428) /* IO */ Clarify IO and allow binary data
07:35:35 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165353&oldid=165352 * Ashli Katt * (-34) /* Error States */ Add new error state
07:37:14 <esolangs> [[Smoothbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165354&oldid=165353 * Ashli Katt * (+9) /* IO */ Adjust position of (U+000A)
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07:55:25 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165355&oldid=165304 * U * (-137)
07:59:26 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165356&oldid=165318 * U * (+36)
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09:10:32 <ais523> is it possible on Linux for a process running as root to change the memory map permissions (i.e. ability for its owner to read/write/execute a given memory map) for a different process, in a case where the process couldn't make that change itself?
09:11:21 <ais523> (I know how to do it when the process could make that change itself – you ptrace the other process, break at a system call, change the call to be an mprotect call, then once the mprotect happens rewind over the system call and run the original call)
09:12:46 <ais523> the motivating use of this is for a sandboxed JIT – it creates the code it wants to run, then asks a higher-privileged process to verify that the machine code it generated fulfils certain constraints, and if that process agrees it changes the memory from writable to executable
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09:33:26 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if process_vm_writev could overwrite a map that's already executable-and-not-writable – the documentation doesn't rule it out, but I suspect that's a documentation mistake
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10:06:19 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't see how such a sandbox would work. how would you ensure that the process only jumps to the correct entry points in the code?
10:07:03 <ais523> wob_jonas: you could have verified the outer process first to make sure it only jumps in certain ways – otherwise, it's probably useless
10:07:22 <wob_jonas> also if you want to change a mapping to executable then I don't see how you'd also have to stop the process from just making an anonymous executable mapping
10:07:35 <ais523> it's much easier to verify code for type safety and jump targets than it is to verify that it's only capable of outputting type-safe asm
10:08:03 <ais523> oh, that's easy, most OSes allow you to restrict a process from making certain types of mapping nowadays
10:08:17 <ais523> on Linux you can do it using seccomp to ban certain parameters to the mmap and mprotect system calls
10:09:40 <wob_jonas> hmm, but at that point either you trust your verifier enough that you allow the process to make mprotect calls itself, or you put a full filter on all the system calls that the process is allowed to do, with like selinux or bpf or whatever, and allow the one mmap/mprotect call through the filter
10:09:53 <ais523> I guess what you'd have to do is to put the filter into ptrace mode (i.e. "a debugger can approve this system call but it's banned by default")
10:10:13 <wob_jonas> right, put a hole in the filter to temporarily allow a call
10:10:23 <ais523> and then when you attach the debugger to inject the mprotect call, it can allow itself
10:13:11 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure it even has to be a debugger -- at least as long as you checked a previous recvmsg system call to make sure the process received the file descriptor for the specific compiled code that you allowed, then filter all the system calls like close and fcntl to make sure nothing overwrites that file descriptor, then allow the one mmap call
10:14:18 <ais523> that's interesting but seems a bit fragile
10:14:35 <ais523> you would probably need to use a fixed fd number for it
10:15:11 <ais523> which, logically, should be 3 – but then you need a workaround for if the calling process tried to pass information using an open FD 3
10:15:53 <wob_jonas> no, you read the process's memory after the recvmsg call to see what file descriptor number it received -- I guess that counts as a debugger, unless your system call bps filter can do that for you
10:17:50 <wob_jonas> admittedly it's a bit ugly, because you need to dereference two levels of pointers from what the process passed to the recvmsg call
10:18:11 <wob_jonas> and you might even need to verify that the process doesn't do overlapping pointer shenanigans
10:18:51 <ais523> if you're reacting to what the process does dynamically you need/are a debugger
10:19:31 <ais523> anyway, I realised that this can be useful even if you haven't verified the existing code, as long as you're on a processor that requires branch targets to be marked
10:19:43 <ais523> because you can just scan for branch target sequences that are in the wrong place
10:20:48 <wob_jonas> you can probably at least skip verifying the dup2/fcntl/close calls if you require that the mmap is the immediately following syscall after recvmsg, and retry both calls a few times if it isn't
10:20:56 <ais523> (although I think this means you can't use a traditional linker, in case it created a branch target sequence using a relocation)
10:21:38 <ais523> ooh, dup2 lets you pick the new file descriptor number even if it wasn't previously open
10:21:54 <ais523> so you could use an fd of 65534 or whatever
10:22:38 <wob_jonas> yes, but there's a setrlimit for that
10:23:02 <wob_jonas> and I think a system-global limit too
10:24:10 <ais523> I thought it was on the number of FDs that were open, not on the FD number itself
10:25:07 <wob_jonas> https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/setrlimit.2.html "a value one greater than the maximum file descriptor number that can be opened by this process."
10:26:05 <ais523> I agree, I just tested, I can't use an FD number greater than the open file limit
10:26:53 <ais523> now I'm wondering if the FDs are stored in a contiguous array
10:28:42 <wob_jonas> they probably are. outside of dup2/dup3/fcntl, every new file descriptor number is guaranteed to be the first unused one for the process, and this requires synchronization between multiple processors running threads of the process. this came up because the synchronization is ugly in high-performance network servers, but Linux didn't dare to just
10:28:42 <wob_jonas> break the guarantee that's been there for as long as there was a unix
10:29:19 <fizzie> It's also a POSIX guarantee.
10:30:01 <wob_jonas> I think this was part of the motivation to create all those new system calls that take an extra argument for an O_CLOFD flag, so that if it's ever needed they could add an O_* flag to indicate that you don't insist on the least unused file descriptor number
10:30:26 <fizzie> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/functions/V2_chap02.html#tag_16_06 "All functions that open one or more file descriptors shall, unless specified otherwise, atomically allocate the lowest numbered available (that is, not already open in the calling process) file descriptor at the time of each allocation."
10:30:43 <ais523> fizzie: we're talking specifically about dup2, which lets you choose the new file descriptor number
10:31:14 <wob_jonas> ais523: no, we're talking about why the file descriptors are stored in a contiguous array
10:31:26 <ais523> but wouldn't dup2 be a reason not to?
10:31:59 <wob_jonas> no, if the process abuses dup2 it's their problem that they're allocating too much kernel memory, and if you don't want that then you rlimit it
10:32:37 <wob_jonas> there are other ways that a process can allocate lots of kernel memory, and most of them, including this one, has knobs in /proc or sysctl or something to limit it
10:34:30 <wob_jonas> select/pselect, they take a dense array indexed by file descriptor numbers. you can use alternate APIs these days, but select/pselect are still useful, so that's another reason why a process won't use unnecessarily large file descriptors
10:35:35 <fizzie> Interestingly, my shell has open file descriptors 0, 1, 2 and 255 (all pointing at the same pty), where the latter is -- well, okay, it's not a *big* number, but still.
10:36:07 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: cd: /proc/fd: No such file or directory
10:36:17 <wob_jonas> `` set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; ls -dF
10:36:27 <wob_jonas> `` set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; ls -F
10:36:31 <ais523> fizzie: mine too, but it seems to be specifically the shell, other processes don't do that
10:36:53 <wob_jonas> `` bash -ic 'set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; ls -F'
10:36:55 <HackEso> bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ 0@ \ 1@ \ 2@ \ 255@
10:37:25 <wob_jonas> `` bash -ic 'set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; printf "(%s)" *'
10:37:27 <HackEso> bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ (0)(1)(2)(255)(3)
10:37:42 <ais523> ooh, even more interesting: I tried with dash, and it had fds 0, 1, 2, 10 open
10:37:45 <fizzie> (Got curious about the process with the largest-numbered file descriptor, which on this system is (unsuprisingly) Chrome, with 719 open files, with the highest number of 829.)
10:37:57 <ais523> 0, 1, 2 were all /dev/pts files, 10 was /dev/tty (which I think is an alias for the same /dev/pts)
10:38:39 <ais523> zsh has 10 as the same /dev/pts as 0, 1, 2, also 12 and 13 holding completion databases open
10:39:59 <ais523> so I guess there's some need for shells to hold a reference to their terminal in a weirdly-numbered fd, it's hard to imagine them all doing that otherwise
10:40:18 <wob_jonas> ais523: only login shells, which use the terminal for job control
10:40:21 <ais523> busybox sh is also holding /dev/tty open on fd 10
10:40:22 <wob_jonas> `` bash -c 'set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; printf "(%s)" *'
10:40:29 <wob_jonas> `` bash -ic 'set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; printf "(%s)" *'
10:40:31 <HackEso> bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ (0)(1)(2)(255)(3)
10:40:37 <wob_jonas> sorry, not login shells, *interactive* shells
10:40:51 <ais523> yes, interactive seems like the right condition
10:41:10 <wob_jonas> they need to be able to use the controlling terminal for job control even if their input/output is redirected, since redirecting is allowed
10:41:11 <fizzie> https://sources.debian.org/src/bash/4.3-11%2Bdeb8u1/jobs.c/#L3813 "move_to_high_fd" (in an `else` branch of `if (interactive == 0 && force == 0)`).
10:50:00 <wob_jonas> `` script -c 'set -e; cd /proc/self/fd; printf "(%s)" *' # wait, you can't even open a pty in HackEso because devpts isn't mounted?
10:50:04 <HackEso> script: openpty failed: No such file or directory
10:50:43 <wob_jonas> ouch, I thought it was possible to open one
10:53:02 <ais523> I think it's theoretically possible to open one without devpts, but it probably involves manually setting device numbers and HackEso probably doesn't like that either
10:53:29 <HackEso> ls: cannot access '/dev/pty*': No such file or directory
10:54:33 <HackEso> lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 8 Jul 1 2024 /dev/ptmx -> pts/ptmx
10:54:42 <fizzie> Mm. `umlbox` mounts /dev as read-only hostfs mount from outside the UML, which is a pretty dubious choice, but I guess it is expedient in the sense that there's no need to create the expected /dev nodes.
10:54:44 <fizzie> `` cat /proc/mounts | grep /dev
10:54:46 <HackEso> none /dev hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/ 0 0
10:54:48 <ais523> ah, OK, I was wondering how that one was going to work
10:55:46 <ais523> now I'm wondering if anything abusive can be done with read-only access to all a system's devices
10:56:09 <ais523> isn't there one that contains a screenshot of boot messages?
10:56:24 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't think you really access them, because when you open them, UML will just look at their stat and opens the right device *inside* the guest, not in the host
10:57:29 <HackEso> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
10:57:32 <fizzie> `` ls /dev # it's a pretty minimal /dev because the host is a systemd-nspawn namespaced container of a minimal Debian system
10:57:34 <HackEso> char \ console \ core \ fd \ full \ initctl \ log \ mqueue \ net \ null \ ptmx \ pts \ random \ shm \ stderr \ stdin \ stdout \ tty \ urandom \ zero
10:59:24 <wob_jonas> yeah, but some of those few devices are used by a lot of user-mode processes, so a minimal /dev is still worth, even if it's not the host's /dev but a specially created directory
11:00:16 <ais523> `` head -c 40 /dev/urandom | base64
11:00:19 <HackEso> BcGOW7+Mns5Sj/LhmKlzTsbP77vHUCqV/APwXOg21MJprUwFucbdTQ==
11:00:43 <ais523> `` cat test > /dev/tty
11:00:45 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: /dev/tty: No such device or address
11:01:02 <ais523> I don't think I've seen that errno code before
11:01:40 <wob_jonas> I think /dev/tty is your controlling terminal, which you don't have, and you won't have without being able to create pseudo-terminals
11:02:42 <ais523> wob_jonas: yes – I knew it "shouldn't" have one but was wondering if the framework would point it to its normal stdout/stderr stream somehow
11:03:18 <fizzie> Funny note about (u)random, by the way: there's a bit in the umlbox init where the Python script that invokes it can optionally give it a few bytes of randomness to preload the entropy pool with.
11:03:23 <fizzie> https://github.com/fis/umlbox/blob/master/umlbox#L66-L68 -> https://github.com/fis/umlbox/blob/master/umlbox#L206-L207 -> https://github.com/fis/umlbox/blob/master/init.c#L131-L132 -> https://github.com/fis/umlbox/blob/master/init.c#L151-L163
11:03:31 <wob_jonas> `` readlink /dev/console # though I think the top-level process has access to a terminal, but then a startup script spawns your command with its standard handles redirected
11:03:32 <ais523> looks like this errno code is ENXIO
11:04:07 <ais523> and the specific cause listed in the open(2) documentation was "The file is a device special file and no corresponding device exists."
11:04:29 <ais523> `` cat test > /dev/ttyS4
11:04:30 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: /dev/ttyS4: Read-only file system
11:04:39 <HackEso> cat: /dev/ttyS4: No such file or directory
11:04:56 <ais523> oh, I see, there aren't 4 serial terminals so it was trying to create a new file in /dev
11:05:04 <HackEso> cat: /dev/ttyS0: No such file or directory
11:05:28 <ais523> aren't any serial terminals, boring (I thought the device for one might be defined even though the terminal itself probably doesn't exist)
11:06:32 <wob_jonas> ais523: I think you only proved that our /dev/ doesn't have any entry for them, not that there aren't serial terminals
11:06:38 <ais523> hmm, I just realised that that /dev doesn't have any disks
11:07:22 <HackEso> tty0 -W- (EC p a) 4:0 \ mc-1 -W- (E )
11:07:28 <wob_jonas> when I rand the emulated DOS machine connected to IRC, the emulated machine actually communicated through serial port to and from IRC
11:07:33 <fizzie> I'm not exactly sure what "mc-1" is.
11:10:10 <ais523> VPSes often allow access via the serial console to recover them if ssh or the like breaks
11:10:28 <ais523> I assume it's an emulated serial console rather than an actual serial port, but am not sure what level of the stack it gets emulated at
11:16:31 <fizzie> UML does provide emulated "consoles" and "serial lines"; on the outside, you can connect them to terminals, TCP ports (that speak telnet) or just existing open file descriptors. umlbox uses up to three: one for the command, one as the system console (for kernel messages) for troubleshooting, and one for the "mudem" (a program to multiplex TCP and Unix domain socket connections over a single
11:16:48 <fizzie> I don't think the current installation uses mudem though.
11:23:54 <wob_jonas> wait, unix domain sockets? I've heard of tunneling out IP network through an emulated ethernet stream, I think the linux host has built-in support for that. but I assumed the unix sockets would just be restricted to within the UML instance
11:27:29 <ais523> I hope they at least can't send FDs
11:28:16 <ais523> (I think CLC-INTERCAL has an option to steal FDs from other processes over a network – sending FDs across the UML boundary would be similar)
11:30:49 <wob_jonas> is that from other CLC-INTERCAL processes?
11:31:09 <wob_jonas> wait, since when does INTERCAL even know the concept of file descriptors?
11:31:29 <ais523> wob_jonas: other CLC-INTERCAL processes, yes
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11:37:07 <ais523> I looked it up: CLC-INTERCAL has a system call interface, you can store filehandles (not quite FDs) in variables
11:37:12 <ais523> and if you steal the variable you steal the filehandle along with it
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11:53:29 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure umlbox-mudem can't forward file descriptors, it just reads and writes normal data. But you can use it to connect a Unix domain socket on one side into a TCP socket on the other, if you want.
11:53:44 <fizzie> There's an `--x11` flag in the wrapper script which will configure the guest mudem instance to listen on TCP port :6000 and for every connection attempt, tell the host mudem instance to connect to /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 (hardcoded path), with the intention that you can use X11 applications inside the UML wrapper.
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11:58:41 <fizzie> (I guess that would probably even magically work without having to worry about xauth complications, since from the X server's perspective the UML process is just like any other X client? TBH, I've never really followed the X11 authorization thing.)
12:00:19 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165357&oldid=165156 * None1 * (+58)
12:00:44 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165358&oldid=164727 * None1 * (+58) /* My Esolangs */
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14:57:55 <esolangs> [[ bits, 0 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165359&oldid=148247 * TheBigH * (-25) Made character table readable without having the font Consolas installed.
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15:09:58 <esolangs> [[ bits, 0 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165360&oldid=165359 * Aadenboy * (+60) undoing to add a proper font stack
15:21:59 <esolangs> [[-2147483648 bytes .-.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165361 * TheBigH * (+4385) Page creation
15:23:31 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165362&oldid=165357 * TheBigH * (+69) Added -2147483648 bytes .-.
15:30:14 <esolangs> [[User:TheBigH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165363&oldid=165172 * TheBigH * (+67) Added -2147483648 bytes .-.
15:45:08 <esolangs> [[5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165364&oldid=165346 * Quuxplusone * (+163) /* hello world */
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17:45:44 <b_jonas> I have a terminology question. So in the Enchain standard library, I want to provide an array of integers type. This means I expose to Enchain code a type and four functions that look basically like this:
17:45:51 <b_jonas> #include <stdlib.h> \ typedef uint32_t *array; array aalloc(uint32_t len) { return (array)calloc(len, sizeof uint32_t); } void afree(array arr) { free(arr); } uint32_t aget(array arr, uint32_t ind) { return arr[ind]; } void aset(array arr, uint32_t ind, uint32_t val) { array[ind] = val; }
17:46:01 <b_jonas> The plan is that Enchain should be typesafe and doesn't allow using uninitialized values. If this is sound and the compiler is implemented correctly, then in a pure Enchain code you can only call afree, aget, aset with a value that was returned by aalloc earlier in the program.
17:46:12 <b_jonas> But there's still a safety problem: you could try to use an array that has been freed, or index past the end of an array. To avoid this, the library lets you use a compile-time setting (probably just a C define) to enable one of two alternate implementations for arrays.
17:46:25 <b_jonas> One alternate implementation is completely memory safe, which means that the afree, aget, aset functions always verify that the array was allocated by aalloc and hasn't been freed yet and the index isn't too large, and if those conditions fail then the program aborts safely. This is useful for eg. developing an Enchain program.
17:46:31 <b_jonas> The other alternate implementation can't always fully verify the conditions, but if you misuse the functions then it can only corrupt the array memory.
17:46:36 <b_jonas> That means that the incorrect call or any future call to alloc, afree, aget, aset may abort the program safely, or an incorrect aget call or any future aget call may return any integer, but apart from those effects on these four functions, the program executes correctly. This can be useful for eg. running untrusted Enchain code, like a browser client-side script.
17:46:45 <b_jonas> My question is, what do you call these two types of memory safety, in particular what do I call the macro that enables them?
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17:52:50 <zzo38> I don't know, although for type and memory safety something I used in another program is storing the type together with the value, and for object references to have a generation number to detect errors. However, this is not necessarily suitable for what you are making.
17:59:45 <ais523> <b_jonas> The other alternate implementation can't always fully verify the conditions, but if you misuse the functions then it can only corrupt the array memory. ← the implementation you've given doesn't have that property, if the index is far enough out of bounds it could hit another valid allocation
18:00:05 <ais523> as for the naming thing, I have these concepts existing in my head but don't think I've named them yet
18:02:38 <ais523> I guess my thoughts for the second version are along the lines of "contained undefined behavior"
18:02:46 <ais523> but I don't think that's a standard name for it
18:03:05 <ais523> in Rust documentation I normally write it as "may return an arbitrary value or panic"
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18:06:39 <b_jonas> ais523: I didn't give that implementation. there are three implementations, and I only gave code for one, the least safe one.
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19:31:33 <b_jonas> here's an untested implementation (probably has lots of bugs) of the arrays in the three different memory safety modes => https://dpaste.org/eusge
19:32:36 <b_jonas> the actual implementation for enchain will use different names, and it'll probably be included three times, once for array of 32-bit integer, once for array of 16-bit integer, and once for array of 8-bit integer, each a separate type. and of course I'll have to fix all the bugs.
19:43:47 <b_jonas> and there might be other functions, eg. copy_n a range from an array to another array (may be the same array), lexicographically lexicographically_compare_three_way two ranges, and, for arrays of 8-bit integers, fwrite or fread a range
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20:48:03 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165365&oldid=157608 * Aadenboy * (+214)
20:49:29 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165366&oldid=165365 * Aadenboy * (+0)
20:55:22 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165367&oldid=165366 * Aadenboy * (+128)
21:01:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sprock * New user account
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23:07:56 <esolangs> [[Malfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165368&oldid=87626 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+737) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Malfunge programming language on GitHub, marked the extant implementation's provenance as absent, and improved the code fragments' formatting.
23:10:35 <esolangs> [[Malfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165369&oldid=165368 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+124) Introduced an infinitely repeating cat program as a third example and changed the example programs' headings to subsections.
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01:35:34 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165370&oldid=165187 * Rosenthal * (-3) Merge "flip bit" into boolean NOT
02:02:45 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165371&oldid=165370 * Rosenthal * (+1) Use lowercase for tommyaweosme (they appear to usually style as lowercase)
02:09:58 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165372&oldid=165371 * Rosenthal * (+0) Fix typo
02:48:16 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165373&oldid=165133 * Rosenthal * (-141) Adjust Truth-machine wording
03:02:43 <zzo38> One thing I am trying to do is to write a program to use curl to record audio/video streams from internet, although I will need to figure out the working of some of the file formats, such as M3U, and the MP3 framing and MPEG-TS framing (I do not need to actually decode the audio or video data though, since it is not being transcoded).
03:03:12 <zzo38> For example, does MP3 have key frames and also frames that are not key frames, and if so, how to distinguish them? How to know the size and duration of a MP3 frame?
03:04:37 <zzo38> (In the case of a single continuous stream, it should not record anything until a key frame is received. There is also the issue of if the stream would ever contain incomplete frames or start with an incomplete frame; I don't know if it does that, either.)
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07:37:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: yt-dlp does a lot of that
07:39:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: ffmpeg's ffprobe program can output the timestamp of each frame from a video. I think it might also be able to print which frames are keyframes, but I never tried that
07:40:17 <b_jonas> I think ffprobe can also decode framing and print the contents of all frames, but I also haven't tried that
07:52:07 <esolangs> [[12]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165374&oldid=164847 * JIT * (+46) /* Hello, World! */
07:59:53 <esolangs> [[12]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165375&oldid=165374 * JIT * (-1) /* Hello, World! */
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10:23:46 <esolangs> [[N3STS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165376 * JIT * (+916) Created page with "N3STS is an esolang by User:JIT, 2025 ''"What if [[brainfuck]] but nests?"'' -User:JIT, 2025 {| class="wikitable" |+ nests! |- ! nest binary number !! [[brainfuck|BF]] commands |- | 000 || > |- | 001 || < |- | 010 || + |- | 011 || - |- | 100 || . |- | 101 || , |- | 110 || [
10:24:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165377&oldid=165312 * JIT * (+12) /* N */
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12:31:07 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165378&oldid=165295 * Hotcrystal0 * (-45)
12:38:59 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/Lang full of special character]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165379&oldid=165289 * Pifrited * (+263)
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12:52:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165380&oldid=165286 * PrySigneToFry * (-8)
13:29:57 <fizzie> I may think about setting up Anubis (that client-side proof-of-work antiscraping thing that you see everywhere nowadays) at least on hack.esolangs.org diff and history requests. It's been getting scraped at 10+ reqs/s for almost a full week, with nothing obviously identifiable in the requests (plausible UAs, IPs all over the world, ...).
13:30:04 <fizzie> Not a fan of the mandatory client-side JS nature of it, but on the other hand nobody _really_ uses the hack.esolangs.org repository browser, so maybe it's not such a loss. For the wiki I'd rather not, and it's not been as problematic lately anyway.
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13:36:46 <wob_jonas> fizzie: the one I'd want to use is https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/ , so that I can compute something on HackEso and download it (in more than IRC line sized chunks) without having to make a permanent commit, but that one doesn't seem to work
13:37:47 <fizzie> Hmm, is it broken again?
13:37:50 <wob_jonas> it would even replace the other two web interfaces, since you can copy something to a file under /hackenv/tmp , or query hg to a file under /hackenv/tmp , and then download the response from there
13:38:23 <wob_jonas> hmm wait, maybe it is working just doesn't give a directory lsiting? let me thest
13:38:45 <fizzie> Yeah, I think that's the case.
13:39:04 <wob_jonas> you're right, it does work if you know the filename
13:39:51 <fizzie> It used to do directory listings too, though, that's probably a configuration error somewhere.
13:40:37 <wob_jonas> I think it's /edit and /get that don't work, but I'm fine with that
13:46:46 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165381&oldid=165356 * U * (+76)
13:49:28 <wob_jonas> python3 -cprint("[% s] [% d]" % (4,4)) # space formatting flag is ignored in %s format. not too surprising in retrospect, but it caught me off-guard
13:49:42 <wob_jonas> `python3 -cprint("[% s] [% d]" % (4,4))
13:50:13 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165382&oldid=165381 * U * (+17)
13:50:24 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165383&oldid=165382 * U * (-17)
13:56:49 <esolangs> [[Isec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165384&oldid=165355 * U * (+17)
13:59:19 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165385&oldid=165377 * U * (-11)
13:59:42 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165386&oldid=165301 * U * (-11)
14:00:39 <esolangs> [[Isec TC proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165387&oldid=165383 * U * (+3)
14:53:05 <esolangs> [[N3STS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165388&oldid=165376 * Aadenboy * (+35) category
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16:48:28 <esolangs> [[Cammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165389&oldid=165194 * Corbin * (+918) /* Implementation */ Document kamis.
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17:32:39 <esolangs> [[WtE,teplw! but actually usable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165390&oldid=165257 * * (+46)
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17:34:46 <korvo> Huh. Are the meta-epigrams on p7 of https://gwern.net/doc/cs/algorithm/1982-perlis.pdf real? They aren't listed on https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html
17:36:55 <korvo> ...Wait, epigrams are different! There's a 121, which was moved to 60; the original 60 was "Dana Scott is the Church of the Lattice-Way Saints."
17:37:02 <korvo> Giving me heavy deja vu thanks to https://lobste.rs/s/ppm44i/very_early_history_algebraic_data_types
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18:16:30 <esolangs> [[LIMITED]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165391 * DadoDev * (+5826) Created Page
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19:08:03 <esolangs> [[LIMITED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165392&oldid=165391 * DadoDev * (+25) Added to the Implemented category
19:16:21 <esolangs> [[User:DadoDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165393&oldid=165320 * DadoDev * (+29) Added LIMITED
19:29:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165394&oldid=165385 * DadoDev * (+14) Added LIMITED
19:33:30 <esolangs> [[LIMITED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165395&oldid=165392 * DadoDev * (+41) Fixed description of INP
20:04:56 <esolangs> [[LIMITED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165396&oldid=165395 * DadoDev * (-112) Fixed bug in implementation
21:23:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Forget-me32 * New user account
21:31:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165397&oldid=165334 * Forget-me32 * (+194)
21:46:11 <esolangs> [[User:Forget-me32]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=165398 * Forget-me32 * (+199) Created page with "Guys, is it allowed to make up examples on user pages, like XKCD Random Number? I had a little idea. Administration, if possible, say it in the discussion. I'll delete this text when I see the answer"
21:50:10 <esolangs> [[User:Forget-me32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165399&oldid=165398 * Forget-me32 * (+11)
21:59:18 <esolangs> [[User:Forget-me32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165400&oldid=165399 * Forget-me32 * (+165)
22:16:55 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:28:06 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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23:08:42 <esolangs> [[1 Bit, a quarter byte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=165401&oldid=120990 * Tommyaweosme * (+404)