←2008-12 2009-01 2009-02→ ↑2009 ↑all
00:00:21 <oerjan> wow that was rough
00:00:24 <ais523> stupid time.gov missed the leap second
00:00:26 <AnMaster> yes
00:00:27 <ehird> agh
00:00:30 <ehird> i missed it
00:00:31 <ehird> fuck my LIFE
00:00:34 <ais523> I think it stayed on 23:59:59 for two seconds
00:00:36 <ehird> :'(((((((((
00:00:39 <ehird> eklw;rlewjkljfksldffd
00:00:39 <ais523> I know, I was refreshing really quickly
00:00:45 <ais523> that site's clearly badly written
00:00:47 <ehird> ais523: it has a java applet.
00:00:51 <AnMaster> ais523, ntp.lth.se had 59 for 2 seconds
00:00:53 <AnMaster> I think
00:00:54 <ehird> also, it's the official site.
00:01:02 <ais523> ehird: but I don't have javascript on
00:01:07 <ehird> java
00:01:08 <ehird> javascript
00:01:11 <ehird> lern2differenciate
00:01:17 <ais523> I refreshed more than once a second for the relevant period, and it never said 23:59:60
00:01:20 <ais523> ehird: I know the difference
00:01:31 <ais523> but if I don't even turn JS on, what's the chance I run Java?
00:01:58 <ehird> gah, I had all the computery time-keeping devices all loadde
00:02:01 <ehird> and I bloody missed it.
00:02:56 <AnMaster> ehird, look there will be another leap second in a few years
00:03:03 -!- oerjan has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/esoteric/ | WE SURVIVED THE LEAP SECOND AND ALL WE GOT WAS ... WAIT, WHERE IS MY T-SHIRT? | HAPPY NEW YEAR ICELAND.
00:03:06 <ehird> which I'll miss. again.
00:03:41 <AnMaster> oerjan, haha
00:04:05 <Warrigal> Is there a leap second tonight?
00:04:10 <Warrigal> Oh, wait a minute.
00:04:16 <AnMaster> Warrigal, there *was*
00:04:22 <AnMaster> like 4 minutes ago
00:04:27 <Warrigal> Darn, that means I missed it.
00:04:34 <AnMaster> also
00:04:42 <AnMaster> why didn't anyone say: "Happy leap second"
00:04:43 <AnMaster> :(
00:04:58 <Warrigal> I'll have to wait until... not many years from now.
00:05:19 <oerjan> it was that bad. just be glad you missed it.
00:05:28 <ais523> AnMaster: because time.gov missed it
00:05:35 <AnMaster> hah
00:08:30 -!- Mony has joined.
00:16:37 <Mony> re
00:16:50 <oerjan> mi
00:18:51 <ehird> do
00:19:17 <oerjan> sol
00:19:19 <ais523> fa
00:20:39 <Mony> la
00:20:53 <oerjan> ti
00:21:01 <ehird> x
00:21:02 <ehird> i win
00:21:08 <Mony> heh
00:21:11 <Mony> I win
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00:22:36 <ehird> moozilla: mooz_?
00:29:18 <oerjan> beware of the mööse for they are böse
00:32:31 <Warrigal> oerjan, is that your final answer?
00:32:36 <Warrigal> You may want to consider "si" instead.
00:33:06 <oerjan> mais non
00:33:39 <fizzie> Despite the superficial similarity, I think it was established that moozilla and mooz are completely separate people.
00:33:44 <ehird> o
00:33:46 <ehird> heyyy fizzie
00:33:50 <ehird> start using lowercase again
00:33:51 <ehird> :\
00:34:03 <ehird> atm you're one of two fizzies, one was in 2002/2003
00:34:09 <ehird> and this one is in now
00:34:13 <oerjan> fizzie: do they look similar except for glasses?
00:35:11 <oerjan> also, happy new year
00:36:06 <fizzie> Happy new; although this time zone had it quite a while ago.
00:36:15 <fizzie> I don't think I'll go back to lowercase, though.
00:36:27 <ais523> Happy today!
00:36:31 <ehird> fizzie: DO IT
00:36:32 <oerjan> but it's all the rage
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00:40:02 <AnMaster> ehird,
00:40:04 <AnMaster> /var/log/kern.log:Jan 1 00:59:59 tux [903182.515007] Clock: inserting leap second 23:59:60 UTC
00:40:06 <AnMaster> :P
00:40:11 <ehird> 00:59:59
00:40:16 <ehird> QED
00:40:25 <AnMaster> well
00:40:32 <AnMaster> how did the kernel know how to do it?
00:40:37 <ais523> it inserted the leap second at 00:59:59 so it was there at 00:59:60
00:40:39 <ais523> and ntpd tells it
00:40:39 <AnMaster> does it contain a database or something
00:40:43 <ehird> bto
00:40:46 <ehird> ntp
00:40:46 <ehird> also
00:40:50 <ehird> just tried it locally
00:40:52 <AnMaster> ais523, oh? a special system call or?
00:40:52 <ehird> leap second just delays
00:40:56 <AnMaster> ehird, ah
00:41:00 <ehird> AnMaster: no, just ntp
00:41:03 <AnMaster> well
00:41:04 <ais523> Jan 1 00:00:00 dell kernel: [ 9654.690507] Clock: inserting leap second 23:59:60 UTC
00:41:05 <ehird> it just delays the clock
00:41:07 <AnMaster> it was in kern.log
00:41:08 <ehird> ais523: yes but
00:41:09 <ais523> there's something wrong about the timing there...
00:41:10 <AnMaster> which means kernel source
00:41:12 <ehird> it doesn't actually hit 23:59:60
00:41:16 <ehird> it emulates the leap second
00:41:17 <ehird> = broken
00:41:20 <ehird> time _repeats_
00:41:21 <ehird> seriously
00:41:23 <ais523> yes, POSIX leap seconds are broken
00:41:24 <ehird> it actually repeats the second
00:41:27 <AnMaster> well
00:41:29 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:41:31 <AnMaster> it was in the kernel log
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00:41:40 <ehird> AnMaster: and?
00:41:42 <AnMaster> the message did not come from ntp, but from the kernel
00:41:46 <Warrigal> What Unix time were the leap second and its twin sister?
00:41:55 <AnMaster> Warrigal, no idea
00:41:58 <ehird> AnMaster: the kernel would never do leap seconds if ntp didn't tell it to.
00:42:05 <Warrigal> Hm.
00:42:09 <ehird> as they're set arbitrarily by humans
00:42:18 <AnMaster> ehird, yes but what system call...
00:42:36 <ehird> shrug
00:43:03 <ais523> there is a system call in there somewhere, almost certainly
00:43:03 <Warrigal> The twin sister is 00:00:00 on January 1, 2009. So 2009 - 1970 plus leap years, times 86400.
00:43:05 <AnMaster> getdate(3p):
00:43:05 <AnMaster> %S Seconds [00,60]. The range goes to 60 (rather than stopping at 59) to allow positive leap seconds to be expressed. Since leap
00:43:06 <AnMaster> seconds cannot be predicted by any algorithm, leap second data must come from some external source.
00:43:08 <AnMaster> interesting
00:43:10 <AnMaster> so
00:43:15 <AnMaster> that is a posix man page
00:43:16 <ehird> AnMaster: yes, but it's not actually used.
00:43:21 <ehird> also
00:43:23 <AnMaster> heh
00:43:24 <ehird> that is not posix
00:43:25 <ehird> almost certainly
00:44:00 <ehird> hrm.
00:44:00 <ehird> http://cr.yp.to/proto/utctai.html
00:44:46 <AnMaster> ehird, it is a 3p page
00:44:53 <AnMaster> that is text copied from posix standard
00:44:54 <ehird> yeah its localtime() that's fucked
00:44:55 <ehird> it seems
00:45:20 <ais523> AnMaster: it's adjtimex(2)
00:45:26 <AnMaster> ah
00:45:26 <ais523> that deals with leap seconds
00:46:25 <AnMaster> hum
00:46:29 <AnMaster> only in return value?!
00:46:38 <AnMaster> according to man page
00:46:43 <ais523> yes, that puzzled me too
00:46:53 <ehird> i wonder how much yp.to costs djb
00:47:10 <ais523> I think it's one of the possible options for the "mode selector" option in the struct
00:47:25 <AnMaster> ais523, well the mode selector doesn't define such an option there
00:47:31 <ais523> "time offset"?
00:47:48 <ais523> no idea, really
00:47:50 <AnMaster> ais523, that could be ntp doing "jump time" and it may do that for lots of other reasons
00:47:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("You only need one wheel. Bikers are just greedy.").
00:47:55 <AnMaster> like initial adjustment
00:47:57 <AnMaster> and so on
00:48:06 <AnMaster> which happens most of the time at boot
00:48:22 <ais523> yes, I suppose so
00:48:41 <AnMaster> and I don't get leap seconds then
00:49:17 <AnMaster> int status; /* clock command/status */
00:49:24 <AnMaster> maybe that?
00:49:33 <AnMaster> can't find a description of it there
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01:05:13 <GregorR> Argh, I'm being defeated by plastic
01:05:17 <GregorR> (And glue)
01:05:21 <ehird> coo
01:06:39 <flexo> JNGNEUGNEGNE
01:06:40 <flexo> neughara
01:06:45 <flexo> idsnrt ibepm zu b eutrjne
01:06:47 <ehird> ...
01:06:48 <flexo> ,..,,,,,,,,,,,,,
01:06:49 <ehird> flexo: stop
01:06:53 -!- oerjan has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/esoteric/ | WE SURVIVED THE LEAP SECOND AND ALL WE GOT WAS ... WAIT, WHERE IS MY T-SHIRT? | HAPPY NEW YEAR AZORES.
01:06:53 <flexo> no nwayx
01:06:58 <flexo> NEYWAEREar
01:07:02 <ehird> flexo: you're drunk
01:07:03 <ehird> confirm/deny
01:07:03 <flexo> way to guvkreignv
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01:07:05 <flexo> yes i wam
01:07:15 <ais523> who's flexo?
01:07:17 <ehird> flexo: you might want to avoid irc :P
01:07:20 <ehird> ais523: person
01:07:21 <flexo> O
01:07:24 <flexo> _IEAM NO'
01:07:24 <flexo> tt
01:07:32 <flexo> baoyy
01:07:35 <flexo> new year
01:07:37 <flexo> evesonw
01:07:37 -!- moozilla has joined.
01:07:37 <flexo> e
01:07:39 <ehird> gdf
01:07:40 <ehird> afij
01:07:41 <ehird> new
01:07:43 <ehird> yarjijoer
01:07:45 * ehird is cool
01:07:46 <flexo> this might be just noehtier
01:07:49 * oerjan doesn't have _that_ much trouble typing on irc when drunk. admittedly that's not often.
01:07:50 <flexo> esoteric
01:07:52 <ais523> hapy new years eve, flexo
01:07:53 <flexo> langwuaflege
01:07:54 <flexo> wo whar
01:07:55 <flexo> :)
01:07:59 <ehird> esoteric langwuaflege. :D
01:08:01 <ais523> or happy new year
01:08:06 <ais523> which it probably is, at least to me
01:08:08 <ais523> *for me
01:08:14 * ais523 is not drunk, just tired
01:08:28 <flexo> you know
01:08:31 <flexo> i can tyepe
01:08:40 <ehird> not very well.
01:08:45 <flexo> xa well
01:08:53 <ehird> no, i assure you you are typing badly
01:09:01 <flexo> :)
01:09:04 <flexo> bu
01:09:05 <flexo> t
01:09:12 <flexo> i wote some
01:09:20 <flexo> whatsd the wor
01:09:21 <flexo> e
01:09:21 <flexo> d
01:09:24 <ehird> flexo: write an esoalng interpreter while drunk
01:09:27 <ehird> it will be amazing
01:09:40 <flexo> i'm jus t deayoing
01:09:41 <oerjan> it will cmolipe pfercetly
01:09:45 <flexo> i wrong yapi.b
01:09:48 <flexo> hence
01:09:50 <flexo> i
01:09:54 <flexo> ', entitelted
01:10:00 <ehird> this is great
01:10:00 <flexo> to be drunkt
01:10:02 <flexo> rihgt now
01:10:56 <flexo> sorry
01:11:05 <flexo> maybe you know
01:11:10 <flexo> maybe you dont
01:11:13 <flexo> aynway
01:11:14 <flexo> im
01:11:16 <flexo> knida
01:11:18 <flexo> drunk
01:11:28 <ehird> flexo: "kinda"
01:11:34 <flexo> yeqa :)
01:11:41 <ehird> i'm going to ping AnMaster now so I can laugh at him ranting against alcohol, twice the fun
01:11:45 <flexo> gotta eat some paracetamol
01:11:53 <flexo> oh
01:11:58 <flexo> a nd i stole some..d
01:12:05 <flexo> dont know the name
01:12:12 <ehird> XD
01:12:12 <flexo> christmas tree balls?
01:12:16 <AnMaster> night all
01:12:24 <ais523> night AnMaster
01:12:24 <ehird> WAIT AnMaster
01:12:34 <flexo> very shiny balls
01:12:39 <ais523> ehird: why is it AnMaster you expect to rant against alcohol?
01:12:40 <flexo> glizering
01:12:42 <ais523> why not me, for instance/
01:12:46 <ehird> ais523: because he always does
01:12:50 <ehird> whenever alcohol is mentioned
01:12:57 <ais523> ehird: well, I haven't drunk in years
01:13:05 <flexo> but i only got threee
01:13:14 <ehird> flexo: only three?! ;'(
01:13:14 <flexo> other balls were too risky
01:13:45 <flexo> anyway
01:13:51 <flexo> i'm getting sobar eninga
01:13:52 <flexo> aain
01:13:54 <flexo> gai
01:13:55 <ehird> sure you are
01:13:56 <flexo> gains
01:13:58 <flexo> again
01:14:00 <flexo> so
01:14:14 <AnMaster> well
01:14:15 <ehird> flexo: are yuo sure? yuo seem a bdrit drunnnnkkkkkk
01:14:18 <AnMaster> who is flexo?
01:14:19 <AnMaster> new here?
01:14:26 <ehird> few ddays nwew
01:14:29 <AnMaster> ais523, also I never ever drunk alcohol
01:14:32 <ehird> see
01:14:34 <ehird> told ya
01:14:43 <flexo> AnMaster: i invedted the brainfuck module divission aivleorighe :(
01:14:46 <flexo> algithrihmn
01:14:51 <AnMaster> but talking to a currently drunk person about it would be useless
01:14:52 <ehird> yeah he's famous.
01:14:54 <ehird> an oldbie.
01:14:55 <AnMaster> ehird, ^
01:14:58 <flexo> :)
01:15:02 <flexo> exacgtly
01:15:02 <ehird> AnMaster: talking to drunk people is easy.
01:15:06 <ais523> AnMaster: I used to, but I haven't for years
01:15:10 <ais523> because I realised I didn't like it
01:15:14 <AnMaster> ehird, what he says make no sense
01:15:18 <AnMaster> when he is drunk
01:15:21 <ehird> sure it does, he's just making typos.
01:15:21 <AnMaster> it is unreadable
01:15:22 <flexo> no it makes all sense
01:15:25 <flexo> see
01:15:31 <flexo> i wrote a setence without errors
01:15:36 <ehird> not that one :P
01:15:36 <AnMaster> lucky
01:15:42 <AnMaster> and what ehird said
01:16:35 <flexo> d*b stil sinst here
01:16:45 <flexo> wjat am i doing here
01:17:03 <ehird> flexo: talking
01:17:06 <flexo> right
01:17:06 <flexo> so
01:17:09 <flexo> you people
01:17:13 <flexo> awake an andthing
01:17:20 <ehird> yeah i'm awake
01:17:22 <flexo> can solve my.. rjomg
01:17:24 <flexo> thing
01:17:27 <flexo> so
01:17:28 <ehird> whats the problem
01:17:32 <flexo> toadskin
01:17:38 <flexo> you know TS?
01:17:45 <ehird> yeah
01:17:48 <flexo> alright
01:17:48 <ehird> isn't that a sub-tc thingy?
01:17:53 <flexo> TS is not CS
01:17:54 <flexo> TC
01:17:56 <flexo> but!
01:18:02 <ehird> http://billglover.com/software/toadskin/ hm
01:18:03 <flexo> if TC hat no ring-buffer
01:18:04 * ais523 gives themself a link: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Toadskin
01:18:12 <flexo> nd the accumulator was stored on the callstack
01:18:17 <flexo> would it be TC?
01:18:22 <ehird> hrm.
01:18:24 <ehird> dunno :D
01:18:36 <flexo> figure it out plz, thanks
01:19:00 <flexo> i think it woudl be
01:19:11 <ais523> the Toadskin page says it's TC; is it lying?
01:19:11 <flexo> but it's just an assumption
01:19:15 <flexo> ydes
01:19:17 <flexo> it's lying
01:19:21 <ehird> why is it not tc?
01:19:22 <flexo> in many ways
01:19:38 <flexo> the referene tc interpreter it so buggy, it's not usable
01:19:42 <ais523> well, its only unlimited-size storage is a single stack
01:19:53 <flexo> [] is broken in the rereference interpreter
01:19:54 <ais523> which just screams "PDA" to me
01:20:03 <ehird> ah
01:20:24 <flexo> and even if it was implemented correctly its still not TC
01:20:25 <ais523> it also has a "ring buffer" for the arguments
01:20:31 <ais523> but the spec doesn't explain how that works
01:20:38 <flexo> because it's jujst a stimple 1 stackmachine
01:20:40 <ais523> and IME ring buffers have been finite-sized
01:20:45 <flexo> but
01:20:51 <flexo> if you remove the stupid ringbbuffer
01:20:59 <flexo> and add the accumulator to the callstack
01:21:08 <flexo> i thing it *might* m
01:21:10 <flexo> be TC
01:21:15 <flexo> not sure thoufht
01:21:16 <ais523> flexo: can you get variables unlimitedly deep in the callstack?
01:21:18 <ehird> maybe
01:21:22 <flexo> ais523: nope
01:21:24 <flexo> you dont need to
01:21:27 <ais523> if there's any limit at all, it can't be TC without some other sort of data storage
01:21:52 <flexo> ais523: well, as long as the callstack and the argstack are not limited....'
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01:22:08 <ais523> flexo: wait, would there be two stacks then?
01:22:09 <flexo> the problem is that the ampoutnt of words you can define are limited
01:22:12 <flexo> yes
01:22:13 <ais523> and could you pop one whilst pushing the other?
01:22:17 <ais523> in that case, it might work
01:22:19 <flexo> yes
01:22:28 <flexo> but the amount of words are limied
01:22:43 <flexo> the question is if the amount of words are enough to prove TC
01:23:01 <flexo> (in my "enhanced" TS)
01:23:06 <ehird> write a bf interp in them.
01:23:14 <flexo> thats my plan
01:23:16 <flexo> but im drunk#
01:23:17 <flexo> :)
01:23:21 <ehird> flexo: alternatively, turing machine
01:23:23 <ehird> minsky machine
01:23:24 <ehird> iota
01:23:24 <ehird> ...
01:23:27 <flexo> 2,3 TM, yea
01:23:28 <ehird> the possibilities are endless
01:23:33 <ehird> 2,3? thank ais523 for that
01:23:41 <ehird> if he hadn't proved it was TC that might not be enough ;-)
01:23:43 <ais523> don't try to implement the 2,3 to prove TCness
01:23:47 <flexo> oh. that was him?
01:23:51 <ehird> flexo: yeah
01:23:53 <ehird> ais523: why not?
01:23:55 <ais523> because you need some way to set up the input tape correctly
01:23:55 <flexo> oh.
01:23:57 <ais523> which is a pain
01:24:06 <ehird> sure, but as long as you can prove its the right 2,3...
01:24:07 <flexo> famous people in here
01:24:10 <ais523> most programming languages don't like handling an infinite amount of input
01:24:13 <ehird> flexo: indeed
01:24:22 <flexo> :)
01:24:33 <ais523> and "this program is TC, but it takes infinitely long to run" tends not to ring well with programmers
01:24:43 <ehird> a program cannot be tc...
01:24:53 <ais523> well, it could be an interpreter for a TC language
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01:25:15 <ehird> yeah
01:25:35 <flexo> so
01:25:44 <flexo> ais523, being my personal god
01:25:54 <flexo> is my enhanced TS TC?
01:26:06 <ais523> flexo: I admit I don't understand exactly how it works
01:26:09 <ais523> I think it's likely to be, though
01:26:22 <ais523> as you have recursion to manipulate the function stack
01:26:26 <ais523> and < and > to manipulate the arg stack
01:26:28 <ais523> it'll look weird, though
01:26:37 <flexo> yes.. but a limited amount of words
01:26:49 <flexo> so you cant go as deep in the callstack as you want
01:26:50 <ais523> you don't normally need many if it's TC at all
01:26:54 <flexo> thats the problem
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01:26:58 <ais523> it might be doable even with 1
01:27:18 <ais523> although when I've done TCness proofs before normally about 5 or 6 of what corresponds to a Toadskin function is enough
01:27:23 <ais523> do you have a fixed interp I could tinker with?
01:27:30 <flexo> yes
01:27:38 <flexo> but only for the "described" TS
01:27:43 <flexo> not for my improved one
01:27:53 <flexo> but it should be easy to extend
01:27:55 <flexo> :)
01:28:12 <flexo> my interpreter doesnt push acc to cs
01:28:14 <flexo> ts
01:28:16 <flexo> cs
01:28:42 <flexo> http://flexotec.eu/~flexo/toadskin.rbhttp://flexotec.eu/~flexo/toadskin.rb
01:28:44 <flexo> errr
01:28:50 <flexo> http://flexotec.eu/~flexo/toadskin.rb
01:29:09 <flexo> that one is not TC for sure
01:29:21 <flexo> just a simple stackmachone
01:30:04 <flexo> okay
01:30:06 <flexo> i think
01:30:10 <flexo> i just got to the point
01:30:19 <flexo> phoning ex-gilfrirends
01:30:46 <flexo> luckily i rembembered to get my phone off the cord a couple o ouard ago
01:31:28 <ehird> flexo: you said you were getting sober :P
01:32:45 <flexo> oh amnit
01:33:00 <flexo> "the requested .. thinge.. doesnt ajsnwer"
01:33:03 <flexo> :(
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01:33:56 <flexo> i think i should tkae some paracetammal
01:34:01 <flexo> and get som slee
01:34:01 <flexo> p
01:34:56 <ehird> flexo: ++
01:35:40 <flexo> anforunatly
01:35:52 <flexo> i cant talk to ##c without being id.djd
01:35:55 <flexo> id-ed
01:35:59 <flexo> so i geusss
01:36:08 <flexo> this kinda makes a ponit for paracetmaotl
01:36:11 <flexo> +sleeep
01:36:43 <flexo> but
01:36:43 <ehird> bye.
01:36:48 <flexo> ex-girlfriends :(
01:36:51 <ehird> bye.
01:36:53 <ehird> :P
01:37:13 <flexo> i dont wanna annoy them... butl... but!
01:37:18 <ehird> BYE.
01:37:36 <oerjan> ^ul (sl)S(e)(:^)(::::^^^^)^^S(p)S
01:37:36 <fungot> sl ...out of time!
01:37:38 <flexo> what about the last one?
01:37:41 <oerjan> what the
01:37:46 <ehird> flexo: no. sleep.
01:37:50 <flexo> :(
01:38:02 <oerjan> oh wait
01:38:12 <oerjan> ^ul (sl)S(e)(:*)(::::****)^^S(p)S
01:38:12 <fungot> sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
01:38:15 * ais523 tries to figure out what oerjan was doing
01:38:18 <ehird> flexo: sleep so you don't regret it tomorrow. :P
01:38:29 <ais523> and ah, it becomes a lot more obvious once I see the corrected program
01:38:39 <oerjan> how surprising
01:38:41 <flexo> ehird: good poinr
01:38:53 <ehird> :)
01:39:09 <flexo> alright then
01:39:14 <flexo> goot night ;)
01:39:35 <ehird> bye :)
01:42:32 <flexo> alright
01:42:42 <oerjan> ^ul (sl)S(e)(:*)(:*)(::**)^^^S(p)S
01:42:42 <fungot> sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
01:42:45 <flexo> gave root-access o my servers to some scriptkiddie
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01:42:52 <flexo> reaylly time to go now#
01:42:53 <ais523> flexo: why?
01:42:54 <ehird> flexo: don't.
01:42:56 <ehird> morning.
01:42:57 <ehird> regret.
01:42:59 <ehird> undo. that.
01:43:12 <flexo> no. known him for like... 8 years
01:43:18 -!- metazilla has joined.
01:43:20 <ehird> some script kiddie
01:43:24 <flexo> he's okay. somewhat:)
01:43:42 <flexo> he just wants to flood some servers
01:43:52 <ehird> i see.
01:43:58 <oerjan> friends help you move. real friends help you move bodies.
01:43:58 <flexo> my ones being hosted in .nl i'm okay with that
01:44:35 <ehird> script kiddie friends ask you to help them flood servers
01:45:01 <flexo> worst case scenario - my ex-gf can no longer convert youtbue videos to mp3 with that box
01:45:07 <flexo> i suppose i can live with that
01:45:21 <ehird> aren't you, y'know, legally liable?
01:45:29 <flexo> .nl
01:45:55 <ehird> it's legal to ddos in .nl? er, k.
01:45:58 <flexo> even if ".nl" is not so much of a legally argument
01:46:00 <oerjan> so tomorrow we wake up to learn someone nuked the netherlands. nothing to worry about.
01:46:12 <flexo> the people hes attacking are scrkiptkiides aswell ;)
01:46:28 <ehird> the only winning move is to kill yourself.
01:46:49 <flexo> oh well
01:47:00 <flexo> i'm way to drunk to think about these things
01:47:09 <flexo> the funny thing is
01:47:25 <flexo> that guy got some other guy to got me drunk in the first place
01:47:33 <flexo> and i know that before i got there
01:47:36 <flexo> :)
01:48:16 <flexo> but i demolished a bank before that
01:48:26 <flexo> i got other stuff to worry about
01:48:42 <flexo> (you know, with video surveilannce and stuff)
01:48:58 <ehird> ah. had you mentioned the bank demolishing
01:48:59 <flexo> fun fun fun
01:49:06 <ehird> i don't thikn i would have worried about the script kiddie root access.
01:49:11 <flexo> :)
01:49:17 <ais523> note that I cannot condone any illegal behaviour
01:49:27 <flexo> yea well
01:49:28 <ehird> ais523: what, is silence implicit consent now?
01:49:31 <flexo> it's new year
01:49:35 <flexo> everything
01:49:36 <oerjan> depends. did the script kiddie help him with the bank demolishing?
01:49:38 <flexo> 's forgiven
01:49:39 <ehird> rapists all around the world are excited
01:49:42 <ais523> ehird: no, only in B
01:50:02 <ehird> how do you demolish a bank anyway
01:50:03 <ehird> bulldozer it?
01:50:18 <flexo> nah, just the stuff you can access
01:50:23 <flexo> like the doors, ATMs and stuff
01:50:40 <ehird> new year sure does bring out the best in everyone.
01:50:46 <flexo> :)
01:51:08 <flexo> living in a hicksville
01:51:18 <flexo> moving to munich tomorrow
01:51:35 <flexo> i'm failry certain noone will ever trace this to me :)
01:51:56 <oerjan> i suggest you make a new year's resolution not to demolish any more banks.
01:52:05 <flexo> eehehee
01:53:18 <flexo> koaky
01:53:20 <flexo> sleepp
01:53:23 <flexo> defnitnv now
01:53:25 <flexo> *sleeeps*
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02:02:26 -!- oerjan has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/esoteric/ | WE SURVIVED THE LEAP SECOND AND ALL WE GOT WAS ... WAIT, WHERE IS MY T-SHIRT? | HAPPY NEW YEAR SOUTH GEORGIA.
02:03:15 <ehird> i want to be drunk without the drunkness
02:03:19 <ehird> therefore I will pretend to be drunadjsh
02:03:20 <ehird> kd
02:03:22 <ehird> drn
02:03:23 <ehird> driml
02:03:25 <ehird> drunk
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02:06:40 <oerjan> a itn of drynkent meoer jut anpone
02:06:58 <ehird> pradon
02:07:03 <ehird> i k;'' think i should lslepp
02:07:10 <ehird> i murederjded thre r dogs
02:08:27 <oerjan> i tnink yno sjoukd bt jubd to amimajs
02:09:08 <oerjan> imless tgir trsllt annyiobd
02:09:26 <ehird> sory, i have iouhr no ufkcings iodea what you are talking abtiuuuuu
02:09:56 <oerjan> i guess typing with one finger without looking at the keyboard is sorta overdoing it
02:10:49 <Warrigal> I will type with one finger without looking at the keyboard now.
02:11:00 <Warrigal> hpe sm iu cffoiungh
02:11:10 <Warrigal> Again...
02:11:23 <oerjan> yfat pribrs my tdeiry
02:12:22 <Warrigal> csm i[p jtdu mt npe
02:12:52 <Warrigal> can you hear me now
02:12:57 <Warrigal> I was consistently too far right.
02:13:13 <ehird> aopky doooooooooooo
02:13:15 <ehird> p eople
02:13:16 <Warrigal> Just like [disliked right-leaning political group]!
02:13:17 <ehird> how mnay banks
02:13:20 <ehird> dhave you demofloished
02:13:23 <ehird> ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
02:13:25 <ehird> toady
02:13:28 <ehird> a]]]at onnnnnnkewsyears
02:13:35 <ehird> ]]]]]]]]]]]]I Aowojjjjjjist u kinda lisloiding ojver thek eynabrbod
02:13:37 <ehird> keyboard
02:13:40 <oerjan> in soviet russia, banks demolish YOU
02:13:40 <ehird> sliding
02:13:42 <ehird> im
02:14:26 <oerjan> impnbsetbetil
02:15:04 <oerjan> once mire eoth geekunf
02:15:28 <oerjan> geekunf is such a household word
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02:17:57 <oerjan> hmph 2009 is not prime. i want my money back!
02:18:40 <bsmntbombdood> 7 7 41
02:20:10 <Warrigal> 2009 -> 2030 -> 203 -> 210 -> 21 -> eh, that's a multiple of 7.
02:20:27 <oerjan> i guess we'll have to wait until 2011.
02:21:47 * Warrigal ponders the primeness of 2003
02:22:13 <oerjan> seems so
02:22:25 <Warrigal> Not divisible by 7, or 11... I'm bored.
02:32:54 <psygnisfive> wait till 2012
02:32:58 <psygnisfive> ZOMG ESCHATON
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03:10:11 <psygnisfive> guys
03:10:28 <psygnisfive> the mayan writing system has got to be the best example of an esoteric writing system
03:10:30 <psygnisfive> seriously
03:10:56 <GregorR> Idonno, Linear-A is pretty esoteric (by the actual meaning of the word)
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03:11:10 <psygnisfive> Linear A isn't esoteric at all :P
03:12:04 <psygnisfive> mayan glyphs are mostly phonemic so they represent sounds
03:12:16 <psygnisfive> but they have crazy rules for how you write the sounds
03:12:37 <psygnisfive> and not only that but each sound has something like an average of 15 ways it can be written, simply for diversity's sake
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04:00:21 <bsmntbombdood> hrm
04:00:40 <bsmntbombdood> don't they say that C isn't turing-complete because you can do sizeof(int*)?
04:00:52 <bsmntbombdood> but you don't need pointers to be turing complete do you?
04:01:10 <bsmntbombdood> you can just use recursion and allocate as much as you need on the stack
04:01:59 <psygnisfive> the argument is fallacious
04:02:27 <psygnisfive> any given C program as compiled at any given moment cannot be turing complete because of that
04:02:35 <bsmntbombdood> huh?
04:02:38 <psygnisfive> but the same is true of any program period, since no computer has infinite memory
04:02:46 <bsmntbombdood> ...you're an idiot
04:02:49 <psygnisfive> what?
04:02:54 <psygnisfive> excuse me?
04:03:02 <bsmntbombdood> i'm talking about C the language, not an implementation thereof
04:03:02 <psygnisfive> im answering your question, asshole
04:03:05 <psygnisfive> yes i know that
04:03:08 <psygnisfive> now shut up and listen
04:03:41 <psygnisfive> the argumentation for saying that C as a language isn't turing complete comes from the fact that sizeof(int*) is defined at compile time for the intended machine its supposed to run on
04:04:16 <GregorR> DAMN YOU PLASTIC
04:04:16 <bsmntbombdood> C isn't necessarily compiled
04:04:19 <GregorR> DAAAAAMN YOOOOOOU
04:04:38 <psygnisfive> furthermore, since sizeof(int*) can never be infinite, you never can address infinite memory
04:04:57 <psygnisfive> so, the argument goes, C cannot be TC
04:05:02 <bsmntbombdood> ...
04:05:12 <psygnisfive> thats what they say. not me.
04:05:20 <bsmntbombdood> C is turing complete without pointers
04:05:31 <psygnisfive> listen, im just telling you what they say :)
04:05:42 <GregorR> Yes, C minus pointers is TC.
04:05:47 <bsmntbombdood> ...i know what they say
04:05:51 <psygnisfive> the argument is irrelevant anyway since all programming languages are like that in some regard
04:05:55 <bsmntbombdood> <bsmntbombdood> don't they say that C isn't turing-complete
04:06:05 <GregorR> C with pointers is not. Just choosing not to use pointers is not sufficient, since by the definition of C everything is addressable, even if you don't use the address.
04:06:36 <psygnisfive> furthermore, any program imaginable can infact be run so C-as-a-whole (INCLUDING compile-time definition of sizeof(int*)) is turing complete
04:08:42 <psygnisfive> because if your machine doesnt have enough memory you do what everyone does, add more, then try again.
04:08:54 <psygnisfive> (actually i think i misspoke, i think sizeof(int*) is run-time defined not compile time)
04:09:16 <bsmntbombdood> a machine can't be turing complete
04:09:21 <psygnisfive> no real machine can, no.
04:09:23 <bsmntbombdood> we already know that
04:09:29 <psygnisfive> but you know what i mean
04:10:00 <psygnisfive> the language is TC if you talk about C as a whole, not just C-as-it-is-wrought-with-some-particular-sizeof(int*)
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04:40:44 <Ilari> Err... How one would store the potentially unbounded amount of data in C without using pointers (assuming elements don't have to have valid addresses)?
04:42:38 <Ilari> The call stack could store unbounded amount of data, but its just one LIFO stack, which is not sufficent for TC.
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05:24:44 <psygnisfive> sure it is, ilari. functional programming languages do it perfectly well.
05:24:59 <psygnisfive> granted you dont use just a stack. you do all sorts of substitution stuff as well in that model
05:25:23 <psygnisfive> but thats not the same as just stack machine
05:25:24 <psygnisfive> far from it.
05:44:57 <GregorR> Step one of my wearable computer is done :)
06:09:21 <psygnisfive> oh?
06:18:16 <GregorR> I've converted a Myvu Crystal into a compact one-eye version for mounting onto glasses.
06:29:00 <psygnisfive> cool
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06:35:35 <GregorR> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30230927&l=7b22a&id=1055580469
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07:29:55 <psygnisfive> lol
07:29:56 <psygnisfive> cute
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12:04:17 <ais523> is the new year counter still going?
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12:39:55 <DonQuijote> hi
12:40:13 <ais523> hi
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12:41:30 <ais523> ...
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13:20:29 <oerjan> it's STILL on South Georgia? how disappointing
13:20:42 <ais523> well, I don't think there are any countries at -13
13:20:52 <ais523> so we've reached the end of our new year updater
13:21:11 <oerjan> s/reached/crashed/
13:21:32 <oerjan> hm indeed
13:21:52 <ais523> oerjan: it's having a sort of Y2K bug
13:21:55 <ais523> but with hours rather than years
13:21:56 -!- oerjan has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/esoteric/ | WE SURVIVED THE LEAP SECOND AND ALL WE GOT WAS ... WAIT, WHERE IS MY T-SHIRT? | HAPPY NEW YEAR EARTH.
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14:26:28 <flexo> oh.. my head..
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14:36:06 <ehird> that was some _nasty_ bouncerfuckage
14:36:14 <ehird> that was some _nasty_ bouncerfuckage
14:36:21 <ais523> ehird: you're repeating yourself
14:36:32 <ehird> ais523: the logs didn't show me as saying that yet
14:36:34 <ehird> they're lagged
14:36:35 <ehird> so I tried again
14:36:36 <ais523> I'm not sure if it's deliberate or more bouncer weirdness
14:36:39 <ais523> ah, and ok
14:36:45 <ehird> happy mailman lists reminder day
14:37:02 <ais523> why is the Australian reminder day /after/ the European and American ones today?
14:37:17 <ehird> because australia went forward in time or sth
14:37:21 <ehird> xD
14:38:54 <ehird> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30230927&l=7b22a&id=1055580469
14:38:57 <ehird> ^ lol
14:38:59 <ehird> (from GregorR)
14:39:07 <ehird> it looks like 2000 as seen from 1970
14:43:59 -!- ehird has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/esoteric/ | WE SURVIVED THE LEAP SECOND AND ALL WE GOT WAS ... WAIT, WHERE IS MY T-SHIRT? | HAPPY BIRTHDAY EARTH.
14:47:45 <GregorR> Yes, because the world was "born" on New Years day :P
14:47:55 <ehird> Yes.
14:47:56 <ehird> Yes it was.
14:48:16 <ais523> GregorR: there's about a 1 in 365.2422 chance...
14:48:24 <ehird> GregorR: If you prefer, I could change it to "HAPPY BIRTHDAY CALENDAR".
14:49:15 <ais523> ehird: what makes you think the calendar was started on january 1?
14:49:19 <GregorR> ais523: No. No there is not. As the formation of a planet takes substantially longer than a day, and there's no agreement on what exact moment the planet is considered to be a planet rather than a ball of primordial ooze.
14:49:21 <ais523> especially as new year used to be march 1
14:49:25 <ehird> it wasn't
14:49:29 <ehird> duh
14:49:29 <ehird> :P
14:49:40 <ais523> GregorR: hmm... you could take the median opinion, or something
14:49:55 <ais523> and I think the exact moment is the moment it pulls itself into an approximate sphere under its own gravity
14:50:17 <ais523> I think it's a mathematical fact whether an object is doing that or not
14:51:11 <ehird> not mathematical fact, surely
14:51:17 <ehird> scientific, sure
14:51:25 <ais523> ehird: if you have accurate enough measurements of the location of all the relevant rocks
14:51:35 <ais523> and their velocities and weights
14:51:38 <ehird> well, tru.
14:51:49 <ais523> you can determine via simulation if they're pulling themselves into a sphere under their own gravity or not
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14:53:53 <ehird> I want to build a full universe simulator. (For a quantum Infinity Machine, naturally.)
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15:01:31 <ais523> ehird: not a multiverse simulator?
15:01:37 <ais523> you'll need one to simulate quantum stuff
15:01:37 <ehird> ais523: Just run multiple instances.
15:01:50 <ehird> Also, isn't that only with many worlds?
15:02:06 <ehird> Many Worlds would be fun though. I'd tune into the world where everything was batshit insane.
15:08:04 <ehird> You know, I never thought I'd come up with an actual use for markov chains.
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15:08:31 <ais523> ehird: LZMA?
15:08:39 <ehird> LZMA compresses with markov chains?
15:08:45 <ehird> Weird
15:08:47 <ais523> among other things
15:08:48 <ehird> .
15:08:52 <ais523> it doesn't exactly use markov chains
15:08:57 <ais523> not random ones, anyway
15:09:19 <ais523> I think recording the 'random' numbers needed to generate the actual text is shorter than recording the text itself
15:09:24 <ais523> and that's how the trick works
15:09:30 <ehird> ha
15:09:41 <ehird> but no, that's not it
15:09:53 <ais523> ofc it's not that simple
15:11:29 <ehird> now I will wait for someone to ask me what
15:11:59 <AnMaster> I heard lzma was very good
15:12:09 <AnMaster> and my tests shows it is slightly better than bzip2
15:12:19 <ais523> more than slightly better IME
15:12:20 <AnMaster> for your average tar file at least
15:12:42 <AnMaster> ais523, may depend on size I guess, for example gzip is better than bzip2 at really small files
15:12:52 <AnMaster> I guess bzip2 has more header overhead
15:12:57 <AnMaster> or something like that
15:13:01 <ais523> lzma compresses really slowly but decompresses quickly
15:13:05 <AnMaster> true
15:13:20 <AnMaster> ais523, isn't it what 7zip use too?
15:13:27 <ehird> yes
15:13:29 <ais523> I don't know
15:13:33 <ehird> the reference lzma impl is from 7zip iirc
15:13:51 <AnMaster> heh
15:14:00 <ehird> thing about windows archivers (not 7zip):
15:14:02 <AnMaster> ehird, 7zip compresses very well, even for zip and such too
15:14:06 <ehird> they all give you like a 1000 day trial
15:14:07 <ehird> and then
15:14:10 <ehird> LET YOU KEEP USING IT
15:14:25 <AnMaster> advpng uses 7zip's deflate compression implementation to shrink pngs by quite a bt
15:14:26 <AnMaster> bit*
15:14:27 <ehird> they just make you wait $days_product_has_been_used settings before de-graying "Continue"
15:14:34 <ehird> wel
15:14:35 <ehird> l
15:14:35 <ehird> less
15:14:41 <ehird> it's like 5 seconds per year.
15:14:56 <AnMaster> ehird, eh?
15:15:24 <AnMaster> also I never used those windows compression programs
15:15:27 <AnMaster> apart from 7zip
15:15:32 <AnMaster> and 7zip has been ported to *nix too
15:15:33 <ehird> eh what?
15:15:35 <ais523> ehird: that's because they can't compete against each other if they try to charge
15:15:41 <ehird> ais523: well, exactly
15:15:43 <AnMaster> ehird, oh yes windows xp has zip built in
15:15:43 <ehird> but it's ridiculous
15:15:48 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah, it's awful.
15:15:53 <AnMaster> ehird, indeed
15:16:17 <ais523> p7zip is the Unix port of 7-Zip, a file archiver that archives with
15:16:18 <ais523> very high compression ratios.
15:16:22 <AnMaster> ehird, I just use tar.bz2 since it support for opening it is way more common than tar.lzma
15:16:30 <ais523> although they just ported the algo, not the interface
15:16:36 <AnMaster> ais523, I have it installed if I need to use it
15:16:40 <ehird> AnMaster: And much less common than tar.gz & .zip
15:16:43 <ehird> :P
15:16:50 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on your audience
15:16:51 <ais523> I think it's best to offer in multiple formats
15:16:58 <AnMaster> tar.gz is more common yes
15:16:58 <ais523> ideally ones that people haven't heard of but can open anyway
15:17:02 <ehird> I download code in tar.bz2, offer it in tar.gz, and offer other things in .zip
15:17:24 <AnMaster> ehird, I see no reason to use zip
15:17:38 <ehird> yes because you live in a world where everyone uses linux.
15:17:44 <AnMaster> or *bssd
15:17:47 <AnMaster> *bsd
15:17:53 <AnMaster> also I know OS X can open them
15:17:56 <ais523> ehird: it's not like the average Windows user can't open a .gz nowadays
15:18:00 <ehird> yes, it would help if your world was less of a fantasy
15:18:03 <ehird> ais523: can winzip do it?
15:18:09 <ais523> on most of the random cybercafe Windows computers I find, double-clicking a .gz works
15:18:16 <ehird> I regularly encounter people asking what a .rar is, and afaik only 7zip/winrar are the common archivers that can do .gz on windows
15:18:22 <ais523> all sorts of random programs open them, I think winzip might be one
15:18:26 <AnMaster> ehird, .rar is a pain
15:18:29 <AnMaster> closed
15:18:37 <ehird> AnMaster: it is useful for certain cases
15:18:44 <ais523> actually, IIRC winzip decompresses .tar.gz into .tar
15:18:47 <ais523> and can also open .tar
15:18:48 <ehird> due to its built-in split-archive-in-multiple-parts and verification stuff
15:18:50 <ais523> so you have to run two nested instances
15:18:56 <AnMaster> ehird, oh? compression ratio is less than 7zip iirc
15:19:04 <ehird> compression ratio isn't always everything
15:19:06 <ais523> also, IE saves .tar.gz files as .tar.tar because it confuses the file associations
15:19:23 <AnMaster> ais523, nice one
15:19:28 <AnMaster> so
15:19:30 <AnMaster> .tgz
15:19:34 <AnMaster> and .tbz2
15:19:38 <ais523> I had great fun after downloading CLC-INTERCAL
15:19:44 <AnMaster> ais523, oh?
15:19:46 <ais523> because the uncompressed files ended .tar
15:19:47 <AnMaster> it uses compress?
15:19:52 <ais523> wait, no
15:19:55 <AnMaster> ais523, huh what?
15:19:55 <ais523> the compressed files ended .tar
15:19:59 <ais523> and the uncompressed files ended .gz
15:20:03 <AnMaster> haha
15:20:05 <ais523> for some reason I fail to figure out
15:20:11 <ehird> i think that the separation of tar and gzip/bzip2/etc is a problem
15:20:16 <AnMaster> ais523, err the reason: it's intercal
15:20:26 <ehird> if the compression format knows more about the structure of the directory tree, surely it could do a better job?
15:20:35 <AnMaster> maybe
15:20:56 <AnMaster> ehird, on the other hand separating them follows the unix philosophy
15:21:05 <ais523> AnMaster: no, it was browser+decompresser borkage
15:21:10 <ehird> the unix philosophy isn't exactly ideal in all cases.
15:21:10 <AnMaster> ais523, ah
15:21:15 <AnMaster> ehird, true
15:21:24 <ais523> I thought CLC had done it deliberately, but it turned out he hadn't
15:21:27 <ehird> and I highly doubt anyone here uses a machine that actually subscribes to it
15:21:39 <AnMaster> ais523, is that the usual result of .tar.gz?
15:21:40 <ais523> although with a note that he might have done it if he thought of it
15:21:40 <ehird> e.g. find(1)
15:21:42 <AnMaster> on windows
15:21:45 <ehird> a kitchen sink program if I ever saw one
15:21:50 <ais523> AnMaster: I don't think so, it depends a lot on what's in the registry
15:21:57 <ais523> which rather depends on the order in which you installed things
15:21:59 <ehird> $any_desktop_environment_ever
15:22:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I use find a lot and yes it is too complex
15:22:20 <ais523> ehird: find is actually a generalised iteration command
15:22:24 <AnMaster> need to check man page a lot
15:22:32 <ais523> it's sort of like the loop construct in MAGENTA
15:22:33 <ehird> not only does it dump a directory tree, it also filters based on a myriad of things, executes programs, and its command-line syntax is different from just about every other unix command
15:22:45 <ais523> which IIRC can take while and if and do and for and until and unless and foreach all at the same time
15:22:47 <ehird> heck, it even bloody has boolean operations with parenthical grouping!!
15:22:52 <ais523> ehird: so does test
15:22:59 <ehird> ais523: and it's not unixy either
15:23:19 <ais523> would you call awk unixy?
15:23:21 <ais523> what about sed?
15:23:28 <ais523> what about bc?
15:23:29 <ehird> that's different, they're metaprograms
15:23:32 <ehird> they're minilanguages
15:23:32 <AnMaster> what about sh?
15:23:35 <ais523> ehird: so is find
15:23:39 <AnMaster> and so is test
15:23:42 <ehird> ais523: yes, but it's an unneeded one
15:23:45 <ehird> because it integrates into sh
15:23:50 <AnMaster> ehird, err find doesn't
15:23:50 <ehird> and yet disobeys sh's general principle
15:23:51 <ehird> s
15:23:54 <ehird> AnMaster: yes it does
15:23:54 <AnMaster> and
15:23:59 <ehird> you're meant to use it in a shell script or from the command line
15:24:03 <AnMaster> ehird, no it is a separate program, not a builtin
15:24:07 <ehird> /facepalm
15:24:08 <ehird> shut up.
15:24:12 <ais523> ehird: would you be happier if find were a shell builtin?
15:24:15 <ehird> ais523: no
15:25:02 <AnMaster> ais523, I think he would be happier if find read the parameters from stdin
15:25:03 <AnMaster> :D
15:25:13 <ehird> sigh
15:25:27 <ais523> ehird: would you consider ls -R | grep to be more unixy?
15:25:34 <ehird> Yes.
15:25:45 <AnMaster> ais523, I would consider it to be buggy for edge cases and a lot slower
15:25:47 <ehird> It does one thing, does it well, and slots into other programs in a pipe.
15:25:48 <ais523> ehird: the problem is that it runs kind-of slowly on a large directory tree
15:25:55 <AnMaster> just consider newlines in filenames
15:25:57 <ehird> Although `ls -R` is a bit suspicious.
15:25:58 <AnMaster> and yes it is slow
15:26:03 <ehird> yes, of course it's freaking slow
15:26:06 <ais523> AnMaster: ls -R0, then
15:26:13 <ehird> unix-philosophy-compliant software _is_ slo
15:26:13 <AnMaster> ais523, is that posix?
15:26:13 <ehird> w
15:26:16 <ehird> that's why it's not always ideal
15:26:19 <ais523> AnMaster: no, it's GNU
15:26:25 <AnMaster> ais523, then...
15:26:25 <ehird> but that does not change the fact that find is not UNIXy
15:26:41 <GregorR> ...
15:26:44 <ais523> ehird: do you think it's OK to have non-UNIXy things in UNIX, as an optimisation?
15:26:49 <GregorR> 'find' is not unixy?!
15:26:57 <ais523> which does the same as a unixy thing would, but faster and more reliably?
15:26:58 <AnMaster> ehird, also you could do find . -name 'foo' | xargs foo
15:27:11 <ehird> GregorR: Plz look up the UNIX philosophy. ais523: Yeah. I don't like how find does it, though.
15:27:24 <AnMaster> ehird, how do you dislike find?
15:27:30 <ehird> I've already listed that.
15:27:42 <ais523> ehird: I think the UNIX philosophy is at least partially to do with not allowing philosophy to get in the way of useful productivity
15:27:43 <AnMaster> that it isn't unixy?
15:27:52 <ehird> ais523: no, that's worse is better
15:27:54 <GregorR> ehird: So is test un-unixy?
15:27:58 <ehird> GregorR: Yes.
15:28:04 <AnMaster> GregorR, no
15:28:06 <ehird> AnMaster: You can do a non-unixy program and still have it look like other unixy programs.
15:28:11 <AnMaster> it is a mini language like sed
15:28:11 <ais523> ehird: what about pcregrep?
15:28:11 <GregorR> ehird: I'd love to see your if expressions in sh scripts X_X
15:28:13 <ehird> Also, I believe he addressed _me_.
15:28:22 <ehird> GregorR: I am not advocating for the unix philosophy.
15:28:33 <ehird> Find is useful. I use it.
15:28:33 <ais523> ehird: Just because someone asks you a question, does that mean that other people can't answer/
15:28:35 <ehird> But it's not UNIX-y.
15:28:54 <ehird> ais523: when it's a totally subjective question addressed to a person on one side of an argument, the other side butting in with an answer without reasoning is pretty stupid.
15:29:04 <ais523> ehird: I was hoping someone else would answer
15:29:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I did reason
15:29:05 <AnMaster> :P
15:29:17 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> it is a mini language like sed
15:29:17 <GregorR> ehird: Is /lib/ld.so UNIXy?
15:29:19 <GregorR> X-P
15:29:28 <ehird> Your mom is UNIXy.
15:29:31 <ehird> Apart from the "do it well part".
15:29:32 <ehird> Oh snap.
15:29:37 <ehird> s/well part"/well" part/
15:29:59 <AnMaster> GregorR, ls: cannot access /lib/ld.so: No such file or directory
15:30:09 <GregorR> AnMaster: On Linux it's ld-linux.so
15:30:13 <AnMaster> GregorR, here it is /lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
15:30:13 <GregorR> I was using the classic UNIX name :P
15:30:17 <ais523> personally, I think the main /practical/ implications of the UNIXy philosophy is to have a breakable pipe
15:30:28 <ais523> so you can look at intermediate state anywhere, and tinker
15:30:29 <AnMaster> GregorR, that is yet another one
15:30:33 <ehird> % ls /lib
15:30:33 <ehird> ls: cannot access /lib: No such file or directory
15:30:35 <ais523> * fix the grammar in that
15:30:38 <ehird> Look at me! My system is different too!
15:30:46 <ais523> ehird: Mac OS, or GoboLinux?
15:30:50 <ehird> Former.
15:30:55 <ehird> GoboLinux br0ked up.
15:31:02 <ais523> actually, GoboLinux probably has a /lib, just it's full of symlinks to where everything actually is
15:31:03 <GregorR> /AbsurdLibraryDirectoryName
15:31:14 <ehird> [ehird:/] % ls -l .|grep etc
15:31:15 <ehird> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 2006-12-14 12:34 etc -> private/etc
15:31:18 <ehird> WHAT IS THIS HERESY
15:31:25 <AnMaster> ehird, eh?
15:31:38 <AnMaster> ehird, yes OS X has those
15:31:45 <ehird> What?
15:31:49 <ehird> Has those whats.
15:31:51 <AnMaster> iirc it has a /lib symlink too
15:31:54 <ehird> No.
15:31:55 <ehird> It doesn't.
15:32:01 <ehird> It has /usr/lib, but not /lib.
15:32:01 <AnMaster> ehird, /etc symlink at least
15:32:08 <ehird> what the fuck did I just paste?
15:32:11 <ehird> 15:31 <ehird> [ehird:/] % ls -l .|grep etc
15:32:12 <ehird> 15:31 <ehird> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 2006-12-14 12:34 etc -> private/etc
15:32:15 <AnMaster> ehird, yes
15:32:16 <AnMaster> indeed
15:32:24 <AnMaster> <ehird> [ehird:/] % ls -l .|grep etc
15:32:24 <AnMaster> <ehird> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 2006-12-14 12:34 etc -> private/etc
15:32:24 <AnMaster> <ehird> WHAT IS THIS HERESY
15:32:24 <AnMaster> even
15:32:34 <AnMaster> so I thought you were shocked at your find
15:32:43 <ehird> no, I was joking
15:32:44 <ehird> % which python
15:32:44 <ehird> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
15:32:48 <ehird> ^ more unix sins
15:32:56 <AnMaster> /usr/bin/python here
15:33:09 <AnMaster> ehird, echo $PATH | wc -c
15:33:13 <AnMaster> :P
15:33:28 <ehird> 304 but I have a bunch of unrelated crap in it that i used ages ago
15:33:44 <ehird> AnMaster: also
15:33:44 <AnMaster> 97 on freebsd, 150 on gentoo
15:33:52 <ais523> 155 here
15:34:00 <AnMaster> ehird, yes?
15:34:01 <ehird> [ehird:/] % ls -l /usr/local/bin/python
15:34:01 <ehird> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 24 2008-12-15 16:57 /usr/local/bin/python -> /usr/local/bin/python2.6
15:34:02 <ehird> [ehird:/] % ls -l /usr/local/bin/python2.6
15:34:04 <ehird> lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 63 2008-12-15 16:52 /usr/local/bin/python2.6 -> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
15:34:08 <AnMaster> right
15:34:16 <AnMaster> ehird, tell me, why is the first one not a relative symlink?
15:34:17 <Asztal> 568, I win
15:34:23 <Asztal> (windows)
15:34:26 <ehird> AnMaster: Dunno.
15:34:26 <AnMaster> Asztal, err going low was the goal
15:34:32 <ehird> Yes, he was being sarcastic.
15:34:36 <Asztal> I set my own goals :D
15:34:44 <AnMaster> Asztal, fine :)
15:34:47 <ehird> ehird@rutian:~$ echo $PATH
15:34:47 <ehird> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
15:34:57 <ehird> /usr/games should be at the start :|
15:34:58 <ais523> here's a good way to chear
15:35:01 <AnMaster> $ echo $PATH
15:35:01 <ais523> *cheat
15:35:03 <AnMaster> /sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/root/bin
15:35:05 <AnMaster> which is odd
15:35:07 <ehird> the single most important directory on a unix system
15:35:07 <ais523> $ PATH=""; echo $PATH | wc -c
15:35:09 <AnMaster> since X11 isn't installed
15:35:12 <AnMaster> on that freebsd box
15:35:14 <ais523> guess what that prints (where the $ is the prompt)
15:35:17 <ehird> ais523: YOU ONLY CHEAT YOURSELF
15:35:26 <ehird> zsh: command not found: wc
15:35:30 <ehird> I WIN
15:35:34 <ehird> that's a base 255 number
15:35:40 <ais523> well, yes, although not zsh for me
15:35:41 <AnMaster> ais523, "sh: command not found"
15:35:43 <AnMaster> or something like that
15:35:56 <ehird> >>> sum(map(ord,a))
15:35:56 <ehird> 2415
15:36:02 <ehird> that can't be right
15:36:02 <ehird> oh
15:36:05 <ehird> I need the * 255
15:36:26 <ehird> 178431884530883387476741383738549825960794060434521223987627869
15:36:29 <ehird> that's how long my PATH is.
15:36:31 <AnMaster> ehird, what?
15:36:41 <ais523> AnMaster: ehird interpreted their path as a base 255 number for some reason
15:36:45 <AnMaster> ah
15:36:46 <ehird> no
15:36:48 <ehird> I did ais523's command
15:36:49 <ais523> given that there are 256 possibilities for bytes
15:36:49 <ehird> and got this
15:36:50 <ehird> zsh: command not found: wc
15:36:53 <ais523> oh, ok
15:36:56 <ehird> so that's obviously my path length as a base 256 number
15:37:05 <ehird> oh wait it's actually 196770863739160564595263608359723940742411945884540670408947555
15:37:11 <AnMaster> haha
15:37:16 <ais523> btw, you'd probably better restart that shell
15:37:16 <ais523> unless you have some way to get your path back to normal
15:37:29 <ehird> "source .zshrc" would do it.
15:37:30 <AnMaster> ais523, . /etc/profile?
15:37:32 <ehird> but I just closed it.
15:37:50 <AnMaster> ais523, you could just do it in a subshell
15:37:51 <ehird> fun fact: my .zshrc loads my .bash_profile
15:37:54 <ehird> and that's where my PATH is.
15:37:57 <AnMaster> by doing ( ) around it
15:38:04 <ehird> i don't know why either
15:38:04 <AnMaster> (PATH=""; echo $PATH | wc -c)
15:38:05 <ais523> yes, I know
15:38:10 <ais523> I thought the joke was funnier this way
15:38:17 <AnMaster> heh
15:38:44 <AnMaster> ehird, err it isn't base 256
15:38:48 <AnMaster> it is base 128
15:39:04 <ehird> "zsh: command not found: wc"
15:39:06 <ehird> that's a sequence of bytes.
15:39:11 <ehird> a byte is 0..255
15:39:19 <AnMaster> ehird, yes but notice all are below 127
15:39:24 <Asztal> heh, 879 characters in MSYS. :)
15:39:24 <ehird> 444
15:39:29 <ehird> that's a base 5 number
15:39:30 <AnMaster> so I suggest they are in fact signed
15:39:34 <ehird> because it has no digits above 4.
15:39:43 <ais523> AnMaster: in fact, all are below 126
15:39:50 <AnMaster> ais523, that too then
15:39:51 <ais523> also, balanced base 256?
15:39:56 <ais523> that would be ridiculous
15:40:01 <AnMaster> ais523, sounds great
15:40:19 <AnMaster> ais523, but how would it work?
15:40:39 <ais523> AnMaster: the same way as balanced base 3
15:40:39 <AnMaster> ais523, -256..256?
15:40:45 <AnMaster> ah wait
15:40:46 <ais523> and no, -128..127
15:40:50 <AnMaster> -128..127 yes
15:40:54 <AnMaster> ais523, signed char in fact
15:40:56 <ais523> just like any well-behaving 8-bit signed char
15:41:00 <ais523> in 2's complement
15:41:04 <AnMaster> yes
15:41:25 <ehird> incidentally, did you guys hear about the zune bug?
15:41:28 <AnMaster> hm what is it for base 4.. quaternary?
15:41:33 <ehird> all first generation 30gb zunes broke at exactly the same time
15:41:40 <ehird> well, within an hour or so of each other
15:41:49 <AnMaster> ehird, wtf?
15:41:50 <ais523> ehird: yes, because the firmware didn't take the possibility of a leap year into account
15:41:53 <ehird> yep
15:41:53 <ehird> http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/zune-news/38143-cause-zune-30-leapyear-problem-isolated.html
15:41:55 <AnMaster> hah
15:41:56 <ehird> the code that caused the problem
15:41:57 <ehird> hilarious
15:42:03 <AnMaster> ais523, will they unbrick them?
15:42:13 <AnMaster> or are they not bricked?
15:42:13 <ehird> AnMaster: just reset the clock
15:42:26 <ehird> so it doesn't go into that code path
15:42:31 <ais523> AnMaster: apparently you can get them working again by draining the battery, then turning them on some time that isn't in 2008
15:42:42 <AnMaster> ais523, and update the firmware?
15:42:42 <ehird> ais523: which amounts to resetting the clock.
15:42:46 <ais523> ehird: yes
15:42:48 <ehird> AnMaster: they haven't released a fix yet
15:42:52 <ehird> i guess they're waiting until tuesday :-P
15:42:55 <ais523> ehird: actually, that is the fix they released
15:43:00 <ehird> heh
15:43:05 <ehird> they have 4 years to fix it
15:43:10 <ehird> although wait that'll be 2012
15:43:14 <ehird> we'll be dead by the time it matters.
15:43:17 <Badger> oh shi-
15:43:21 <ehird> ...
15:43:22 <ehird> maybe
15:43:22 <ehird> zunes
15:43:24 <ehird> locking up
15:43:26 <ehird> destroys the universe
15:43:30 <Badger> :o
15:43:33 <ehird> like, they power the dyson sphere we're in
15:43:35 <ehird> and it like explodes
15:43:37 <ehird> and the universe ends
15:43:38 <ais523> ehird: or maybe the universe doesn't end in 2012?
15:43:42 <ehird> ais523: SHUT UP
15:43:47 <Badger> agreed
15:43:50 <ehird> :D
15:44:00 <AnMaster> why on earth
15:44:02 <GregorR> Badger: Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger
15:44:02 <AnMaster> a loop
15:44:06 <AnMaster> that makes no sense
15:44:06 <ais523> IIRC Discordianism says it'll end in 9661, they thought it was 1996 but they were reading it upside-down
15:44:07 <ehird> GregorR: MUSHROOM MUSHROOM
15:44:08 <Badger> GregorR: GregorR GregorR GregorR GregorR GregorR GregorR GregorR GregorR GregorR
15:44:14 <AnMaster> some simple math would be way faster
15:44:20 <ehird> AnMaster: it's embedded software.
15:44:23 <ehird> who knows what the fuck it's for.
15:44:29 <AnMaster> ehird, it lacks integer division?
15:44:37 <ehird> i bet it ends up as more efficient than arithmetic
15:44:40 <AnMaster> could be
15:44:44 <ehird> :D
15:45:05 <ehird> although "year += 1"? please, everyone knows "++year" is faster</troll>
15:45:31 <ais523> ehird: year += 1 is equivalent to ++year
15:45:34 <AnMaster> ehird, only if the compiler really really sucked at optimising
15:45:36 <Asztal> no, you have to do asm("inc year") if you want the real power!
15:45:38 <ehird> jesus fucking christ
15:45:39 <ehird> '</troll>'
15:45:41 <ehird> are you all DENSE
15:45:42 <ais523> but in theory, both are faster than year++ without optimisation
15:45:44 <Badger> YES
15:45:44 <ehird> it means i'm making a goddamn JOKE
15:45:50 <AnMaster> ehird, I was playing along
15:45:52 <ais523> ofc, everyone optimises it away in practice
15:45:56 <ehird> AnMaster: no, no you weren't
15:45:57 * Badger whacks ehird with a cluebat
15:45:58 <ehird> playing along wiould be
15:46:01 <ehird> 15:45 <Asztal> no, you have to do asm("inc year") if you want the real power!
15:46:01 <ais523> well, every even slightly optimising compiler
15:46:06 <ehird> this:
15:46:07 <ehird> 15:45 <AnMaster> ehird, only if the compiler really really sucked at optimising
15:46:08 <ehird> is not playing along
15:46:09 <AnMaster> <ais523> but in theory, both are faster than year++ without optimisation <-- hm?
15:46:29 <ais523> AnMaster: year++ has to initialise a temporary register to hold the old value of year, in theory
15:46:36 <AnMaster> ais523, oh, right
15:46:39 <ais523> in practice it makes no difference as any sane compiler notices it isn't used
15:46:49 <ehird> Note to self: never, ever make a joke in #esoteric.
15:46:59 <ais523> ehird: why not, I enjoy the resulting discussions
15:47:05 <Badger> crazy people have no sense of humou
15:47:07 <ehird> it's not a discussion, it's tedious crap that we all know
15:47:07 <Badger> r
15:47:16 <ehird> we all know it's optimized to be the same
15:47:19 <ehird> that's why it's a joke
15:47:29 <ehird> unless someone is confused, it can be taken as read that we get the bloody context
15:47:46 <ais523> the context can still be interesting, though
15:47:53 <ehird> :|
15:47:56 <ais523> and just because you get it, doesn't mean that clog does. Or fungot.
15:47:56 <fungot> ais523: man, this fucking sucks. teddy rubskin also has a presentation on wheat that i think about it.
15:48:16 * ais523 tries to figure out whether that's an argument for or against
15:48:43 <ehird> ais523: fungot never gets anything though.
15:48:44 <fungot> ehird: hey, i brought you here today. sonic heroes sucks. teddy rubskin also has a presentation on wheat that i think we're the only people who give two shits about you. do you ever think maybe it was your problem? maybe you just can't handle all the data i'm sending you.
15:48:45 <ehird> nor does clog.
15:48:52 <Badger> fungot is fast.
15:48:53 <fungot> Badger: i mean, there's a huge grasshopper in here and he's flying all around! somebody get this grasshopper out of here, or is it just me?
15:48:54 <ehird> fungot: that is a lot of data.
15:48:55 <fungot> ehird: listen. that ball thing hurts. and that suit? it never comes off.
15:48:57 <ehird> ^style
15:48:58 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft pa* speeches ss wp
15:49:02 <ehird> i guessed it was PA
15:49:08 <ais523> ^style pa
15:49:08 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
15:49:28 <ehird> "sonic heroes sucks." and the apparent large-amounts-of-verbatim-text tipped me off
15:49:41 <ehird> also, profanity
15:49:42 <Badger> ^style discworld
15:49:43 <fungot> Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books)
15:49:46 <ehird> i am the master of fungot
15:49:46 <fungot> ehird: " oook?" said nanny, running along behind. he had a fnord look.
15:49:48 <Badger> fungot: o hai
15:49:49 <fungot> Badger: a flicker made her turn her head. the world isn't always as people see it." vimes hesitated. " i never said he was always the first to bustle up to vimes was mr boggis of the thieves' guild this morning?"
15:50:05 <Badger> ^style speeches
15:50:05 <fungot> Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
15:50:14 <AnMaster> fungot, hello
15:50:15 <Badger> uh-huuuhhh.
15:50:16 <fungot> AnMaster: a popular origin cannot therefore be the characteristical distinction of a popular representative. this belongs equally to all parts of legislature the most odious and imbecile misgovernment. but, if i could say one word out of my wits. i don't allow any ghosts to bite me, and i do not remember that in speaking to you with a text, and i bless god for my safe fnord i know of no set of men living. these he does not unde
15:50:26 <ehird> ^style
15:50:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft pa speeches* ss wp
15:50:32 <ehird> ^style ic
15:50:33 <fungot> Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual)
15:50:39 <AnMaster> that one rocks
15:50:39 <ehird> PLEASE NOTE FUNGOT
15:50:39 <Badger> fungot: o hai
15:50:40 <fungot> Badger: e017 do you expect the logical and orthogonal behaviour?)
15:50:44 <ehird> PLEASE NOTE fungot
15:50:44 <fungot> ehird: the first intercal compiler apart from constant folding optimization). whitespace is ignored nearly everywhere; the only potential problems may be missing the shell `bash' which can be considered to be abstained from and therefore problems may be able to concatenate together your input is being linked to the optimizer can't guarantee at compile time in some ways than some other languages.
15:50:53 <ehird> :DDDDDDDDDD
15:50:58 <ehird> ais523: plz use this as the c-intercal manual
15:51:10 <ais523> ehird: I could just run it through M-x dissociated-press
15:51:14 <ais523> but it might garble the formatting
15:51:17 <ehird> this is better
15:51:21 <ais523> besides, I like the manual to actually be useful
15:51:21 <AnMaster> ais523, wtf is M-x dissociated-press
15:51:25 <ehird> ...
15:51:25 <ais523> AnMaster: what fungot does
15:51:26 <fungot> ais523: there are more limited.) he also invented in 1972, but you use, you can uninstall it by using an appropriate logic operation on them; and sets it to unweave from all other threads that is, 16- or 32-bit).
15:51:29 <GregorR> ^style ff7
15:51:29 <fungot> Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII)
15:51:30 <ais523> if I've got the name right
15:51:30 <AnMaster> ais523, ah
15:51:34 <Badger> fungot: wuh
15:51:34 <fungot> Badger: spying, murder... you just might be pretty exciting. i almost fell over....
15:51:35 <GregorR> fungot: Hello
15:51:36 <fungot> GregorR: please help me! the power of science.
15:51:36 <ehird> actually ais523 dissociated-press is letter based
15:51:41 <ehird> hahaha
15:51:42 <ais523> ehird: I think it has the option
15:51:43 <ehird> those two were great
15:51:50 <GregorR> ^style
15:51:51 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7* fisher ic irc lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
15:51:57 <GregorR> ^style irc
15:51:57 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
15:52:01 <GregorR> fungot: Hi
15:52:01 <fungot> GregorR: it's an example
15:52:08 <GregorR> ... ohhhh kay :P
15:52:11 <AnMaster> fungot, what is?
15:52:11 <fungot> AnMaster: name ' n' and skipping it... not sure i have a problem with
15:52:17 <Badger> fungot: madness!
15:52:17 <fungot> Badger: it hurts." minutes ago! :p)
15:52:23 <ehird> ^style agora
15:52:23 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
15:52:24 <AnMaster> fungot, really?
15:52:24 <fungot> AnMaster: each player has not made before the start of the voting period.
15:52:25 <ehird> fungot: WHEREAS
15:52:26 <fungot> ehird: that the parties) a successful revolt has been a player ceases to be
15:52:31 <ehird> fungot: ha, Revolution
15:52:31 <fungot> ehird: the recordkeepor of a currency, and the
15:52:34 <ehird> fungot: WHICH ONE
15:52:34 <fungot> ehird: the assessor is responsible for communicating the group's vizier.
15:52:35 <AnMaster> ehird, nah that one isn't good
15:52:39 <ehird> yes it is
15:52:39 <AnMaster> what is ss?
15:52:41 <AnMaster> ^style ss
15:52:41 <fungot> Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
15:52:41 <ehird> 15:52 <fungot> ehird: the assessor is responsible for communicating the group's vizier.
15:52:42 <fungot> ehird: par. good, my lord, and master
15:52:43 <ehird> that's golden
15:52:44 <AnMaster> ah
15:52:46 <Badger> hahaha
15:52:47 <AnMaster> hello fungot
15:52:47 <ehird> ^style agora
15:52:47 <fungot> AnMaster: immortal gods, i am no fighter: i am
15:52:47 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
15:52:52 <AnMaster> ..
15:52:53 <ehird> fungot: aaaaaa
15:52:53 <fungot> ehird: ( +k) when a player is electee to that office during that month, every player's lobbying strength of
15:52:57 <ehird> fungot: of.
15:52:57 <fungot> ehird: b) if this rule defers to all active sentences. the
15:53:00 <ehird> fungot: the
15:53:01 <fungot> ehird: the speaker publicly announces that e
15:53:03 <ehird> fungot: e...
15:53:04 <fungot> ehird: 7) a list of all players
15:53:07 <ehird> fungot: MAKE UP YOUR MIND
15:53:10 <ehird> I think it's treating \n as \n
15:53:13 <ehird> and the word wrapping messes it up
15:53:24 <ehird> ^style
15:53:24 <fungot> Available: agora* alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
15:53:31 <ehird> ^style wp
15:53:31 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
15:53:39 <ehird> fungot: CONSENSUS
15:53:41 <ehird> ...
15:53:45 <ehird> someone else say hi to fungot
15:53:57 <AnMaster> fungot, hellp
15:53:58 <fungot> AnMaster: the explanation of the elijah story doesn't hold up, but to index other articles sorted, perhaps, for those pictures available, perhaps this one straight from the souls of black folk. but, i think
15:54:03 <AnMaster> hello*
15:54:07 <ehird> fungot: you think what
15:54:07 <fungot> ehird: if you have any questions please ask them at the wikipedia:media copyright questionsmedia copyright questions page. thank you.!-- template:missing rationale2
15:54:14 <ehird> ais523: sentient templates!
15:54:16 <ehird> fungot: really?
15:54:16 <fungot> ehird: the plan is to move forward. thanks user:naadapriyanaadapriya ( user talk:naadapriyatalk) 22:24, 19 may 2005 ( utc)
15:54:24 <ehird> fungot: what plan ey?
15:54:25 <fungot> ehird: and, dab, words like pop-culture should not be present because other neighbourhoods are not add the article about most existentialists being atheistic seems to be a calming grounding influence, a bit of old-fashioned stunt casting, spiner downplays the timing.
15:54:58 <ais523> fungot doesn't really seem to strip MediaWiki markup well
15:54:58 <fungot> ais523: apparently she wasn't the first person to discover something is in some kind new to me, deserve to be listed in wikipedia.
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17:41:30 <AnMaster> oh btw
17:41:34 <AnMaster> Happy mailman day
17:41:46 * AnMaster just got a few of them from various freebsd lists
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17:45:27 <ehird> AnMaster: I beat you to it.
17:45:28 <ehird> "If this design sounds familiar it’s probably because it’s exactly like Lucene. "
17:45:31 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla.
17:46:14 <AnMaster> ehird, didn't see you saying it
17:46:19 <AnMaster> when did you do that
17:46:30 <ehird> a bit after I came in here first
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17:55:42 <AnMaster> ehird, hm you were disconnected today?
17:55:54 <ehird> My bouncer thought it was in #esoteric, it wasn't.
17:55:59 <AnMaster> hm ok
17:56:09 <ehird> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.01.01
17:56:12 <AnMaster> * ehird (n=ehird@eso-std.org) has left #esoteric ("Furthermore,")
17:56:12 <AnMaster> * ehird (n=ehird@eso-std.org) has joined #esoteric
17:56:12 <AnMaster> * ehird (n=ehird@eso-std.org) has left #esoteric ("Furthermore,")
17:56:12 <AnMaster> * ehird (n=ehird@eso-std.org) has joined #esoteric
17:56:12 <AnMaster> <ehird> that was some _nasty_ bouncerfuckage
17:56:15 <AnMaster> ah right
17:58:47 <AnMaster> <ais523> especially as new year used to be march 1 <ehird> it wasn't <ehird> duh <ehird> :P <-- if it had been me you would have said something about my lack of humor
17:59:05 <ehird> AnMaster: your lack of humour is a running joke.
17:59:22 <AnMaster> ehird, yes right, except only for you
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17:59:32 <ehird> but i am hilarious
17:59:49 <AnMaster> no you aren't
18:00:02 <AnMaster> Monty Python is a good example of "sometimes hilarious"
18:00:53 <ehird> no, I'm very hilarious
18:01:34 <AnMaster> GregorR, oh http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30230927&l=7b22a&id=1055580469, wtf is the thing on the side of the glasses?
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18:02:12 -!- moozilla has joined.
18:02:13 <AnMaster> ehird, maybe you know? You linked it
18:02:24 <ehird> AnMaster: those glasses are a SCREEN
18:02:29 <AnMaster> ah
18:02:32 <ehird> it's a DISPLAY
18:02:33 <ehird> :DDDDDDD
18:02:33 <AnMaster> right, I heard of them
18:02:38 <AnMaster> I never seen them though
18:02:45 <AnMaster> such glasses with built in displays
18:02:49 <AnMaster> cool
18:02:54 <AnMaster> what do you use it for? map?
18:03:22 <ehird> more like HACKING INTERFACE
18:03:25 <ehird> of CYBERWEB
18:03:39 <AnMaster> ehird, don't be silly, this isn't some low budget movie
18:03:46 <ehird> it looks like it
18:04:02 <AnMaster> well yes, but it doesn't mean Holy Wood is right
18:04:16 <AnMaster> if they were it would emit light
18:04:19 <ehird> they are always right
18:04:20 <ehird> also, they do
18:04:22 <ehird> it's just invisible light
18:06:13 <AnMaster> heh
18:11:21 <ehird> I should be boring and write another markov chain. i think I know enough now to get it to handle punctuation correctly.
18:11:33 <AnMaster> ehird, heh
18:11:41 <ehird> I'm not sure how to handle nested punctuation though.
18:11:43 <AnMaster> ehird, how does lzma use it btw?
18:11:48 <ehird> That is, how can I make sure parentheses are always balanced?
18:11:51 <ehird> Without just adding them to the end.
18:11:55 <ehird> I guess I could recurse or something.
18:12:32 <AnMaster> ehird, they aren't always balanced on irc normally
18:13:06 <ehird> so what, i always balance my parens :P
18:13:11 <ehird> well aprt from :)
18:13:14 <ehird> but :) is a seperate token
18:13:52 <AnMaster> ehird, and variants like ;) and such
18:13:56 <ehird> Yeah.
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18:14:33 <AnMaster> ehird, still recursion sounds like it could work as long as you somehow limit the depth
18:14:50 -!- metazilla has joined.
18:14:51 <AnMaster> would be nasty if it got stuck
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18:15:00 <AnMaster> in deep recursion
18:15:02 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla.
18:15:11 <AnMaster> heh, "in the deep lands of recursion"?
18:15:21 <ehird> AnMaster: problem is, when you reach EOF to stop recursing, that's end of messag
18:15:22 <ehird> e
18:15:23 <AnMaster> thriller movie
18:15:26 <ehird> so it won't work parenthically
18:15:41 <ehird> Hello, who are you? I am cool (a word for being awesome. Anyway, I must go now. Bye.) Actually wait, I'm not going.
18:15:44 <AnMaster> ah you mean you get lots of end of sentences then?
18:15:47 <ehird> ^ that's not the best usage of parentheses
18:15:50 <AnMaster> indeed
18:15:54 <ehird> but if you just wait until ), that rarely happens
18:16:03 <AnMaster> ehird, it could get too long
18:16:05 <ehird> as a close parenthesis rarely follows another word compared to, you know, other words
18:16:13 <ehird> maybe I could use a weighted markov chain like bayes does
18:16:18 <ehird> comex coded it I don't know how it works
18:16:22 <AnMaster> oooh I like that
18:16:26 <ehird> (it "directs" it to a certain token)
18:16:28 <AnMaster> a reverse bayesian filter?
18:16:34 <ehird> nah
18:16:36 <AnMaster> could be used to *GENERATE* spam
18:16:37 <ehird> bayes is a nomic-playing bot
18:16:41 <AnMaster> ah
18:16:42 <AnMaster> right
18:16:46 <ehird> it's called so because it votes using a bayesian spam filter
18:16:49 <ehird> anyway, unfortunately it takes like
18:16:51 <AnMaster> right
18:16:57 <ehird> (n!)^2 or something storage space
18:16:59 <ehird> for the directed stuff :-P
18:17:03 <AnMaster> ouch
18:17:07 <ehird> well, not that bad
18:17:09 <ehird> but it's biggg
18:17:59 <AnMaster> ehird, well what is the value of n
18:18:22 <ehird> dunno.
18:18:24 <AnMaster> a few MB? GB?
18:18:27 <ehird> all I know is it's way bigger than the actual chain
18:18:57 <AnMaster> ehird, right
18:20:11 <AnMaster> ehird, hm it would be cool if you could make your mail server somehow return "no such user" to spammers *after* you received it..
18:20:14 <AnMaster> hm
18:20:21 <AnMaster> doesn't work I guess
18:20:28 <ehird> most mail servers silently accept bad addresses :\
18:20:30 <ehird> or at least some
18:20:31 <AnMaster> you can reject with no such user
18:20:32 <ehird> anyway
18:20:41 <ehird> i once made a plan for an elaborate spam-fighting system
18:20:46 <AnMaster> ehird, reject with no such user and they will think the email is invalid
18:20:48 <ehird> but i was too lazy to writ eit
18:20:48 <AnMaster> oh? details?
18:20:53 <AnMaster> remember it?
18:20:57 <ehird> basically
18:21:03 <ehird> you know those honeypot scripts
18:21:06 <AnMaster> yes
18:21:07 <ehird> that give a bunch of fake emails
18:21:07 <AnMaster> I run one
18:21:08 <ehird> and a link for more
18:21:13 <ehird> it'd that, but improved by loads
18:21:19 <ehird> on domain foobar.com
18:21:19 <ehird> it'd be
18:21:28 <ehird> dsfjeii@honeypot.foobar.com
18:21:30 <ehird> now
18:21:36 <ehird> whenever a spambot sent mail to one of those
18:21:47 <ehird> it'd ban them from the mail server
18:21:48 <AnMaster> well it wouldn't contain honeypot hopefully
18:21:50 <ehird> and mark them as spam
18:21:56 <ehird> that address
18:21:57 <ehird> forever
18:22:03 <AnMaster> ehird, yes that is how honeypots work
18:22:06 <AnMaster> kind of
18:22:06 <ehird> no, it's not
18:22:16 <ehird> honeypot cgi scripts generally just give fake addresses
18:22:18 <ehird> to pollute their database
18:22:31 <ehird> this one waits for them to actually spam, and then permanently marks them as a spammer
18:22:33 <AnMaster> ehird, oh I have mine set up to give emails to a special blackhole server
18:22:37 <AnMaster> that auto blacklists
18:22:40 <AnMaster> on the real server
18:22:42 <ehird> link?
18:22:46 <AnMaster> a sec
18:23:02 <AnMaster> ehird, I placed it in the footer on the supertux website iirc
18:23:26 <ehird> note that my real solution for such things is to let google figure it out for me. :P
18:23:41 <ehird> http://supertux.lethargik.org/ I don't see it
18:23:47 <AnMaster> no on the wiki
18:24:13 <ehird> lol, old supertux is so cheesy
18:24:14 <AnMaster> ah yes
18:24:26 <ehird> also
18:24:27 <AnMaster> ehird, http://supertux.lethargik.org/development/information.php
18:24:29 <ehird> I don't see it yo
18:24:46 <AnMaster> ehird, check the source
18:24:50 <ehird> AnMaster: that doesn't work, that license thing
18:24:51 <AnMaster> humans don't see it
18:25:02 <AnMaster> ehird, see the source
18:25:05 <ehird> yes
18:25:07 <ehird> but I mean the license notice
18:25:16 <ehird> if that works, the batshit insane lady who sued archive.org for copying her web pages when her page footer forbid it in english is RIGHT
18:25:19 <ehird> and... she's not
18:25:40 <ehird> also, needs moar emails
18:25:47 <ehird> to give a higher chance of being spammed
18:26:02 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway the emails in it are valid, there is a global project for this
18:26:19 <AnMaster> project honeypot
18:26:31 <ehird> i'm pretty sure project honeypot is different
18:26:32 <AnMaster> ehird, it basically does what you suggested
18:26:46 <ehird> http://www.spampoison.com/ t his is the most common anti-spam thing i've seen
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18:31:22 <ehird> hrm.
18:31:37 <ehird> AnMaster: great now you've got me playing supertux
18:31:43 <AnMaster> ehird, haha
18:31:51 <ehird> only because I don't have super mario bros to hand though :P
18:31:59 <AnMaster> :P
18:32:11 <ehird> i am awful at supertux
18:32:14 <ehird> can't beat level 5 :||||||
18:32:25 <AnMaster> ehird, oh? 0.1.3 or 0.3.1?
18:32:30 <ehird> 0.1.3
18:32:34 <AnMaster> right
18:32:38 <AnMaster> more balanced
18:32:41 <AnMaster> anyway
18:32:45 <AnMaster> I can beat that level :P
18:32:56 <ehird> heh the older version is better?
18:33:15 <AnMaster> ehird, we adopted an odd/even versioning scheme
18:33:19 <AnMaster> after 0.1
18:33:26 <AnMaster> so that is why there is no 0.2
18:33:35 <ehird> right, but 0.1.3 is better?
18:33:51 <AnMaster> ehird, currently it is more balanced yes
18:34:02 <AnMaster> 0.3.1 has lots of cool new features, but some are a bit buggy
18:34:15 <ehird> also, there is not enough fuel in my body to describe my hatred of odd/even versioning systems.
18:34:18 <AnMaster> and the game isn't always well balanced when it comes to speed and jumping force and such
18:34:26 <AnMaster> ehird, not my choice
18:34:29 <ehird> :D
18:34:53 <AnMaster> ehird, "the somewhat smaller bath"?
18:35:01 <ehird> ?
18:35:07 <AnMaster> is that the level name
18:35:15 <ehird> i dont think so
18:35:20 <AnMaster> for some odd reason I don't see the numbers here
18:35:54 <ehird> AnMaster: the frosted fields
18:36:19 <AnMaster> that is level 6..
18:36:23 <ehird> oh
18:36:23 <ehird> k
18:36:53 * AnMaster is playing it now
18:37:01 <AnMaster> was a while ago I played 0.1.x
18:38:51 <ehird> ooh, a bug
18:38:56 <AnMaster> oh?
18:39:27 <ehird> yeah.
18:39:29 <ehird> i was standing on air
18:39:32 <AnMaster> err
18:39:41 <AnMaster> ehird, could be invisible secret block
18:39:45 <ehird> no
18:39:47 <AnMaster> for some secret area
18:39:50 <ehird> no
18:39:52 <AnMaster> ok
18:40:01 <AnMaster> there *are* a few such
18:40:16 <AnMaster> just screenshot and I can tell you if that was the case
18:41:02 <AnMaster> ehird, ?
18:41:03 <ehird> level 1: http://xs435.xs.to/xs435/09014/picture1775.png
18:41:06 <ehird> oh shit
18:41:08 <ehird> it didn't work
18:41:08 <ehird> XD
18:41:11 <ehird> fucking sdl
18:41:16 <AnMaster> ehird, no clue about that
18:41:23 <ehird> basically
18:41:24 <ehird> level 1
18:41:24 <AnMaster> screenshots work for me here on supertux
18:41:29 <ehird> the bunch of block
18:41:29 <ehird> s
18:41:31 <ehird> wooden
18:41:32 <ehird> with coins in them
18:41:36 <AnMaster> hm right
18:41:40 <ehird> third from the right box, I had destroyed
18:41:43 <ehird> and I could walk over it
18:41:47 <ehird> but I dropped down a tiny bit but stayed there
18:41:49 <ehird> stopped when I jump
18:41:53 <ehird> Collision box thing I think
18:42:10 <AnMaster> hm
18:42:12 <AnMaster> level 1?
18:42:21 <AnMaster> ah
18:42:27 <AnMaster> ehird, right
18:42:33 <AnMaster> did you have a block on either side
18:42:36 <ehird> yeo
18:42:37 <ehird> yep
18:42:42 <AnMaster> so it was a 1-width
18:42:43 <AnMaster> right
18:42:53 <AnMaster> ehird, known 0.1.3 bug, that one is fixed in 0.3.x
18:42:57 <ehird> kay
18:43:03 <AnMaster> along with support for slope added
18:43:07 <AnMaster> slopes*
18:43:14 <AnMaster> and a lot more
18:43:38 <ehird> is there a debug mode that unlocks all the levels? :D
18:43:57 <AnMaster> there is a debug mode with cheat keys
18:44:04 <AnMaster> as a side effect it draws collrects
18:44:06 <AnMaster> for everything
18:44:19 <AnMaster> which looks pretty ugly
18:44:22 <ehird> ew
18:44:28 <AnMaster> ehird, 0.3.x have a console however
18:44:50 <AnMaster> since it has a scripting language built in for cut scenes and switches in levels and such
18:44:55 <AnMaster> it is used for console too
18:45:05 <AnMaster> called squirrel
18:45:12 <AnMaster> like lua but less known and fewer features
18:45:18 <ehird> first rule of scripting languages: write your game in an existing one with eval and use that :P
18:45:20 <AnMaster> again not my choice
18:45:36 <ehird> also wtf you can do small jumps if you don't hold space down
18:45:36 <ehird> WH
18:45:37 <AnMaster> ehird, heh, it is using an existing scripting language
18:45:38 <ehird> WHY
18:45:46 <AnMaster> ehird, eh? what do you mean
18:45:56 <ehird> if you hold space down for a millisecond more you go high
18:45:58 <ehird> but otherwise you just hop tiny bit
18:46:33 <AnMaster> ehird, yes that makes sense, if you had a joystick it would be related to the axis
18:46:37 <AnMaster> iirc
18:46:52 <AnMaster> or wait, joystick is 0.3.x only?
18:46:53 <AnMaster> hm
18:47:04 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway it is a feature and useful
18:47:25 <AnMaster> if you want to take a small jump, like cave and low ceiling
18:47:40 <AnMaster> if you hit your head then it will be harder to make a long jump
18:49:26 * ehird tries his new play style: hold down control and jump everywhere and never hit any enemies
18:49:33 <ehird> if you do, only hit them without trying to
18:49:48 <AnMaster> ehird, less score then
18:49:49 <ehird> dead
18:49:50 <ehird> :D
18:49:54 <AnMaster> ehird, get the egg
18:50:00 <AnMaster> and fireflower
18:50:10 <AnMaster> lot easier then
18:50:13 <ehird> meh :D
18:50:25 <AnMaster> ehird, the egg looks like a snowball though
18:50:54 <ehird> :)
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19:00:11 <AnMaster> ehird, also project honeypot is like that: http://www.projecthoneypot.org/httpbl_api
19:00:23 <AnMaster> only issue is dynamic ips
19:01:55 -!- Asztal has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:02:06 -!- Asztal has joined.
19:08:00 <GregorR> AnMaster: Presently the display doesn't display anything, I don't have the computer :P
19:08:06 <GregorR> AnMaster: But it will be a general-purpose computer.
19:08:16 <GregorR> A GPS-powered map would be one excellent use for it.
19:08:22 <AnMaster> GregorR, yes indeed
19:08:26 <AnMaster> what about traffic info?
19:08:27 <AnMaster> or news?
19:08:34 <GregorR> It's a computer.
19:08:41 <AnMaster> GregorR, yes but with an antenna
19:08:41 <GregorR> The computer I'm hooking it to has wifi and bluetooth
19:08:48 <AnMaster> hm ok
19:08:58 <AnMaster> GregorR, how large is the computer?
19:09:04 <GregorR> http://openpandora.org/
19:09:14 <AnMaster> oh quite small
19:09:19 <GregorR> That's the idea :)
19:09:25 <AnMaster> GregorR, yeah of course
19:09:37 <GregorR> Whole setup should cost me ~$700
19:09:40 <AnMaster> GregorR, but yes gps + map would rock
19:09:47 <AnMaster> and something to calculate best route
19:10:22 <ehird> walking gps
19:10:23 <ehird> XD
19:10:25 <AnMaster> GregorR, a pitty you won't be able to overlay the directions directly on the perspective
19:10:36 <ehird> that would be awesome, walking gps with overlayed directions
19:10:39 <AnMaster> like arrow showing what door to actually enter
19:10:43 <ehird> I'd never have to ask for directions!
19:11:08 <AnMaster> ehird, indeed, and not just directions on a map like in a car navigator, but directions pointing to the actual features in the real view
19:11:22 <AnMaster> that would be impossible though
19:11:27 <ehird> i knowwww
19:11:30 <ehird> why impossible tho
19:11:32 <ehird> its possible
19:11:34 <ehird> jus tvery hard
19:11:48 <GregorR> It would definitely be possible, but probably not with this setup.
19:11:49 <AnMaster> correction: virtually impossible
19:12:10 <AnMaster> ehird, you would need to identify the features of the view, like street corners, and so on
19:12:28 <AnMaster> and figure out current exact orientation of the head
19:12:37 <ehird> that's not impossible. that's hard, but robots DO exist you know
19:12:41 <AnMaster> yes
19:12:41 <ehird> with, you know, sensors.
19:12:43 <ehird> that process image data.
19:12:47 <AnMaster> yes indeed
19:12:51 <ehird> so in the future, yes, it'd/it'll be possible
19:12:56 <ehird> its not that unfeasable :)
19:13:01 <ehird> *infeasible
19:13:11 <AnMaster> ehird, it is infeasible for GregorR with his current setup
19:13:53 <AnMaster> GregorR, should also have restaurant advice, oh and hat shop locations
19:15:15 <ehird> :)
19:15:17 <ehird> an actual joke!
19:15:27 <ehird> it should update him with choosemyhat.com results in REAL TIME
19:18:14 <AnMaster> ehird, nice
19:18:50 <AnMaster> GregorR, do people often comment on your hats when they meet you
19:18:58 <AnMaster> brb
19:25:05 <AnMaster> GregorR, I listened to some of your music pieces btw, quite good
19:25:50 <ehird> link?
19:25:56 <ehird> i've heard the Kill Yourself song and that's about it XD
19:26:12 <AnMaster> http://codu.org/music.php
19:26:48 <AnMaster> GregorR, I believe those 3 for a game would fit quite well into a fantasy game, say wesnoth or something like that
19:26:52 <AnMaster> which game was it for?
19:27:29 <AnMaster> ehird, I like his "Opus 8"
19:27:54 <AnMaster> haven't listened to 9 yet, 6 or below
19:28:02 * AnMaster is currently listening to 7
19:28:34 <AnMaster> I like it :)
19:29:09 * GregorR reappears
19:29:26 <AnMaster> :)
19:29:42 <GregorR> People often comment on my hats, yes.
19:29:57 <GregorR> The comments are very varied, and different hats get different amounts of comments, often not in line with what you might think.
19:30:06 <AnMaster> GregorR, right
19:30:08 <GregorR> For example, the red fez gets tons of comments, but the green fez gets virtually none.
19:30:19 <AnMaster> GregorR, now that I hadn't expected
19:30:24 <AnMaster> why none for the green?
19:30:27 <AnMaster> it is too odd?
19:30:35 <GregorR> I guess, Idonno, I'm not psychic :)
19:30:40 <AnMaster> hm
19:31:10 <GregorR> At a certain point of strangeness people just stop talking at me at all ... when it gets really cold outside I wear a cape, and at that point people just don't look at me unless they know me :P
19:31:21 <AnMaster> haha
19:31:38 <AnMaster> GregorR, the recording of op 7 sounds a bit low quality, not sure how to define it
19:31:44 <AnMaster> also what about the game question
19:31:51 <GregorR> That recording is really old, yeah, it sucks :(
19:31:56 <GregorR> And the game was Battle for Wesnoth
19:31:59 <AnMaster> hah
19:32:02 <GregorR> I was making a campaign which I've since abandoned :P
19:32:16 <AnMaster> GregorR, I like wesnoth, and I like the game music for it
19:32:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, anyway I like 7, but not that recording of it
19:32:28 <GregorR> So do I, I just wanted unique music for my campaign *shrugs*
19:33:02 <AnMaster> GregorR, and your game music for it is quite good, is it recorded real life or with really high quality soundfont?
19:33:27 <GregorR> Soundfont
19:33:36 <AnMaster> what one if I may ask? :)
19:34:09 <AnMaster> GregorR, I would really wish a sound font with a good piano, too few free ones available though :/
19:34:19 <AnMaster> wish I had*
19:34:20 <GregorR> 'twasn't a free one X-P
19:34:24 <GregorR> Came with my keyboard.
19:34:25 <AnMaster> aargh!
19:34:45 <GregorR> I recorded it on my keyboard, I didn't write it as a MIDI, I just played it.
19:35:55 <AnMaster> GregorR, one thing about your opus 9, you seem to change style a bit in it to more bass chords (not sure if that is the right English terminology... I'm not a native speaker as you know).
19:36:11 <AnMaster> I think it may be the recording, or it is a bit heavy on the bass chords
19:36:32 <AnMaster> but overall I like it very much
19:37:05 <AnMaster> GregorR, can we here you play "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" at some point? :D
19:37:10 <GregorR> Opus 9 was a tune that was stuck in my head ... I didn't write it in the same way as I write most of my pieces, as the entire tune from beginning to end had just evolved as this weird tune I whistled.
19:38:57 <AnMaster> GregorR, well I don't have good soundfont
19:39:15 <AnMaster> so opus 9, well maybe you should upload an ogg of it with a good soundfont?
19:39:50 <GregorR> Only if you can provide a soundfont better than the one I already used :P
19:39:56 <GregorR> Oh!
19:40:10 <GregorR> I forgot to provide a link to the ogg D-8
19:40:10 <AnMaster> eh?
19:40:10 <AnMaster> oh you misread what I said I bet
19:40:15 <AnMaster> GregorR, yes
19:40:19 <GregorR> There actually is a .ogg version already, made with freepats
19:41:06 <AnMaster> GregorR, one things that confuse me about your music is that you suddenly change tempo and style in the middle at some point where I wouldn't have expected it
19:41:30 <GregorR> Yes. Yes I do :P
19:42:21 <AnMaster> GregorR, I'm more used to classical music that doesn't do that. Anyway what about you playing (on a real piano preferably :) "Eine kleine Nachtmusik"?
19:42:26 <GregorR> I try to write in a stream-of-thought style ... I rarely repeat anything more than twice, I reuse themes but only in totally different contexts, and as a result it takes me a very long time to write anything.
19:42:42 <GregorR> I could do that, but I don't have a real piano :P
19:42:55 <ehird> I love music that changes style and tempo unexpectedly for no reason
19:43:13 <AnMaster> GregorR, ah, what about something by Liszt then? :P
19:43:20 <AnMaster> Sorry
19:43:39 <GregorR> So, Eine kleine Nachtmusik is acceptable only on a real piano, but Liszt can be played on whatever shitty keyboard I can dredge up? :P
19:43:54 <AnMaster> GregorR, both both are acceptable on keyboard
19:44:01 <GregorR> Oh, you might be interested, http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op10-beta2.ogg
19:44:02 <AnMaster> but I think making good recordings would be quite fun
19:44:08 <AnMaster> beta :D
19:44:12 <GregorR> Not my final recording of that (probably), not "released" per se
19:45:10 <AnMaster> GregorR, anyway Liszt would be extremely hard...
19:45:53 <AnMaster> say "La Campanella" (originally for violin, but at least Liszt made a piano version, no idea if it differs much)
19:46:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, I like your op10
19:46:38 <AnMaster> so far much less random changes in style
19:47:21 <ehird> what's wrong with those
19:47:28 <GregorR> X-D
19:47:31 <ehird> music should be surprising :D
19:47:32 <AnMaster> ehird, it is a matter of taste
19:47:44 <AnMaster> so yes highly subjective
19:47:45 <GregorR> The first section is 7/8, then 6/8, then 7/8, don't those count for anything? :P
19:48:17 <AnMaster> GregorR, hm when did the first change happen
19:48:32 <AnMaster> I might not have reached it yet
19:48:40 <GregorR> ;)
19:48:54 <AnMaster> GregorR, I'm around 2 minutes and 30 seconds into it
19:49:13 <GregorR> It's at around 1:15, you're well into the 6/8 section
19:49:18 <AnMaster> right
19:49:24 <AnMaster> then I didn't notice it
19:49:38 <AnMaster> GregorR, or it seemed natural maybe
19:50:00 <AnMaster> GregorR, some differences I noted but they seemed to fit in there very well :)
19:50:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, plan to become a composer?
19:50:45 <AnMaster> ok
19:50:48 <AnMaster> there was a change
19:50:50 <AnMaster> that didn't fit
19:51:10 <GregorR> Yes, that's why I'm at graduate school for CS, it fits right into my music plans :P
19:51:25 <AnMaster> ok so you don't plan that then
19:51:49 <GregorR> No, it's just a hobby.
19:52:14 <AnMaster> ah it was the end somehow, ok then that worked
19:52:21 <AnMaster> around 06:something
19:52:44 <AnMaster> GregorR, yes I like that op 10 :)
19:52:46 <GregorR> Yeah, the 6/8-to-7/8 change is just a BAM
19:52:47 <AnMaster> very much so
19:53:10 <AnMaster> GregorR, you play the piano very well
19:54:09 <GregorR> Well thank you.
19:54:19 <GregorR> But I'm far better at CS, it's just a less visible skill :P
19:54:36 <AnMaster> true
19:55:33 <AnMaster> GregorR, just wondering, would you be able to perform something like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Liszt-La_Campanella-Greiss.ogg
19:56:15 <AnMaster> if yes you should maybe consider playing piano instead of cs ;P
19:56:24 <GregorR> The usual answer is "with enough practice" :P
19:56:34 <AnMaster> GregorR, and that would be "a lot"?
19:56:43 <ehird> This is #esoteric.
19:56:48 <AnMaster> ehird, yes?
19:56:54 <ehird> Suggesting someone do music instead of CS is unlikely to be fruitful.
19:57:02 <AnMaster> ehird, ah good point
19:57:03 <GregorR> From what I've heard so far, probably not /so/ much of a lot.
19:57:12 <GregorR> One sec, I'll get a recording of the most complicated thing I've played.
19:57:25 <AnMaster> :)
19:59:17 <GregorR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4iaugs_6uQ (This is not me, and no, I haven't played this as /well/ as this guy, I've just played it :P )
20:00:28 <GregorR> (By the way, it only gets difficult after a couple minutes)
20:01:06 <AnMaster> playing it now
20:01:16 <GregorR> I love nocturnes, by the way :P
20:01:31 <AnMaster> hmmmmm....
20:01:58 <AnMaster> then "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" should fit you well
20:01:59 <AnMaster> :)
20:06:05 <GregorR> Note the small "related videos" links on the right, in particular the ones where the guy is wearing an unfortunate choice of clothing colors and so it looks like he's performing nude in the small pic :P
20:06:18 <AnMaster> hm?
20:06:25 <AnMaster> yes
20:06:30 <GregorR> I just found that amusing :P
20:07:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, hm... quite nice that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4iaugs_6uQ
20:12:55 <GregorR> Oh yeah, it's 2009
20:13:13 <GregorR> That means I have to remember to mark my files every time I edit them for a while :P
20:13:46 <AnMaster> GregorR, I just sed them to update copyright header once at the start of the year
20:16:08 <ehird> uh, you should just put the copyright of when you wrote them.
20:16:45 <AnMaster> ehird, yes I do
20:17:02 <AnMaster> but I mean updating to say 2007-2009 instead of 2007-2008
20:17:28 -!- moozilla has joined.
20:23:39 <AnMaster> GregorR, there still?
20:23:51 <AnMaster> what do you think of these http://www.tangento.net/FaeriesAireandDeathWaltzGIF1.gif and http://www.tangento.net/FaeriesAireandDeathWaltzGIF2.gif
20:24:08 <AnMaster> :)
20:24:14 <AnMaster> ;P
20:24:47 <ehird> old
20:24:53 <ehird> AnMaster: those are two seperate pieces
20:24:55 <ehird> not one
20:24:58 <ehird> totally unrelated
20:25:38 <AnMaster> ehird, why do you think so?
20:25:44 <AnMaster> they seem related shrug
20:25:52 <ehird> they're not.
20:25:55 <ehird> I know this because i've seen it 50 times.
20:26:03 <ehird> your source is... a filename.
20:26:32 <GregorR> I like "Cool timpani with small fan" :P
20:26:39 <AnMaster> GregorR, heh
20:26:47 <AnMaster> ehird, possible, what is the name of the second one then?
20:27:01 <ehird> Dunno.
20:27:36 <AnMaster> GregorR, in the first image there are some made up notes: half notes with flags
20:27:50 <ehird> the whole thing is invalid
20:27:59 <ehird> (wrong number of notes for a bar or sth IIRC)
20:28:10 <AnMaster> ehird, the second one is correct for number / bar for many parts at least
20:28:17 <AnMaster> I entered some of it into a midi program
20:28:25 <ehird> what does it sound like?
20:28:32 <AnMaster> ehird, horrible :P
20:28:55 <AnMaster> was the bit below "With much passionfruit"
20:28:57 <AnMaster> that I entered
20:29:32 <AnMaster> ehird, if you like a rosegarden file I could upload it somewhere
20:29:44 <GregorR> "With pesto"
20:29:53 <ehird> AnMaster: a midi would be nice.
20:30:10 <Asztal> obviously the MIDI rendering didn't follow the all-important "through the frog" and "whip it good" instructions
20:30:18 <AnMaster> ehird, ok I could export it
20:30:20 <AnMaster> Asztal, true
20:31:40 <AnMaster> ehird, http://omploader.org/vMTJ4Nw
20:32:06 <ehird> I've heard a full recording of that.
20:32:09 <AnMaster> it is just one instrument, and two bars
20:32:13 <AnMaster> ehird, huh?
20:32:16 <ehird> AnMaster: a full midi
20:32:19 <ehird> I'd need to find it
20:32:25 <AnMaster> yes please
20:32:44 <ehird> also, I LIKE the sound of that
20:32:52 <AnMaster> ehird, it doesn't sound too bad
20:32:59 <AnMaster> though not my cup of tea
20:33:04 <GregorR> Do they make multi-port USB wall chargers ...?
20:33:13 <AnMaster> GregorR, haha
20:33:34 <AnMaster> I didn't even know there was anything called "usb wall charger"
20:33:52 <AnMaster> GregorR, idea: attach a powered hub to it?
20:34:23 <GregorR> I wouldn't trust that. The USB wall chargers are totally non-standards-compliant, they just dump as much power as they can manage at the USB device, so any device not intended for them can get zapped.
20:34:40 <GregorR> Plus, the powered USB hub would actually speak USB, so it would be unwilling to charge at the full rate.
20:35:22 <ehird> AnMaster: http://10e.org/file/death.mid incorrectly calls it the death waltz one, but oh well
20:35:29 <ehird> it actually sounds nce
20:35:30 <ehird> nice
20:35:34 <ehird> as in, it has actual structure and melody
20:37:54 <ehird> AnMaster: ping
20:37:58 <AnMaster> yes
20:38:00 <AnMaster> listening
20:38:02 <AnMaster> still alive
20:38:35 -!- Warrigal has joined.
20:39:09 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:39:34 <Warrigal> I think the good old days of bsmnt_bot are over.
20:39:41 <AnMaster> ehird, I actually prefer more mainstream classical music
20:39:46 <AnMaster> Warrigal, that was ages ago
20:39:49 <ehird> AnMaster: It still sounds nice.
20:40:11 <Warrigal> I want to make a replacement.
20:40:12 <AnMaster> that's your opinion :P
20:40:22 <ehird> AnMaster: it has melody and form.
20:40:24 <ehird> and structure.
20:40:24 <AnMaster> Warrigal, what did the bot do now again?
20:40:29 <ehird> it's better than a lot of stuff.
20:40:32 <AnMaster> ehird, true, but could any human play it?
20:40:32 <Warrigal> And a simpler one, with none of this chroot jail nonsense.
20:40:33 <ehird> also, it evaluated python.
20:40:38 <Warrigal> AnMaster: it did EVERYTHING!
20:40:42 <Warrigal> It evaluated Python, yeah.
20:40:43 <ehird> Warrigal: you need that if you want python
20:40:52 <ehird> but hey, I'm totally happy to remove your home directory.
20:41:15 <AnMaster> read only home too
20:41:18 <AnMaster> in the chroot jail
20:41:29 <Warrigal> I'd rather just create a new user. :-P
20:41:38 <AnMaster> Warrigal, still very risky
20:41:45 <AnMaster> really trust us
20:41:46 <ehird> AnMaster: I have a normish user account.
20:41:52 <AnMaster> ehird, hm ok and?
20:41:57 <ehird> I could already do anythign I could do with a user on normish.
20:42:02 <ehird> I'm assumign Warrigal is goign to put it up on normish.
20:42:09 <Warrigal> I'm assuming so as well.
20:42:11 <AnMaster> normish hm
20:42:16 <AnMaster> ?
20:42:20 <AnMaster> which one is that
20:42:24 <Warrigal> normish.org?
20:42:28 <ehird> It's a nomic./
20:42:32 <ehird> Warrigal is connected via it.
20:42:43 <AnMaster> oh so it won't be in this channel then
20:42:47 <ehird> er, why not?
20:42:53 <ehird> Warrigal is connected via normish.
20:42:55 <ehird> Try //whois.
20:42:59 <AnMaster> hm ok
20:43:04 <ehird> It's a server.
20:43:06 <ehird> Running Linux.
20:43:14 <AnMaster> right
20:43:16 <Warrigal> The bot would run on normish.org, yeah.
20:43:24 <Warrigal> As www-data. >:-)
20:43:33 <AnMaster> Warrigal, no that would be too evil
20:43:39 <AnMaster> and risky
20:43:41 <ehird> I'll be happy to redirect your homepage to Last Measure.
20:43:41 <Warrigal> Since, um, /var/www is world-writable and anyone can run anything as www-data.
20:43:45 <ehird> AnMaster: anyone can write to /var/www.
20:43:53 <ehird> But via a bot i'm less likely to lose my account.
20:43:54 <AnMaster> ouch ok
20:44:16 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on who does it via that bot, you could still see who placed the bot there
20:44:16 <bsmntbombdood> Warrigal: noooooooooooooooo
20:44:25 <ehird> what bsmntbombdood said
20:44:28 <ehird> there is only one true bsmnt_bot
20:44:32 <ehird> and bsmntbombdood must run it.
20:44:39 <AnMaster> bsmntbombdood, run it then
20:44:41 <ehird> anything else is Right Bad Sacrelige.
20:45:02 <bsmntbombdood> the server i was running it in is no more
20:45:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: I has a server.
20:45:19 <ehird> <.<
20:45:22 <ehird> >.>
20:45:23 <ehird> :)
20:45:33 <AnMaster> hm
20:45:42 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: ? :3
20:45:53 <Warrigal> I think I'll create a Normish proposal to give me a puppet.
20:46:03 <ehird> hmm, I'm tired.
20:46:04 <ehird> I think.
20:46:16 <AnMaster> you could make it into one of those machines where the wheels with symbols spins and you get 3 in a row or whatever, but with smilies instead
20:46:17 <Warrigal> And create an empty file in /var/active-players so it can't be an active player, of course.
20:46:24 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: then host it
20:46:26 <AnMaster> so you should get specific combos
20:46:30 <Warrigal> Or hmm.
20:46:36 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: only if you put it up. Anything else is great sacrelidgdgdgdge.
20:46:59 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: root access is required for the chroot
20:47:06 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: I could do that part.
20:47:14 <Warrigal> im gonna appropriate normish, k?
20:47:53 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Shall I give you a shell account, then?
20:48:00 <bsmntbombdood> i suppose
20:49:59 <AnMaster> you could use some sudo trick to do a safe transfer into the chroot ehird
20:50:09 <AnMaster> I got this set up for 32-bit chroot at home
20:50:14 <ehird> Yes, I probably will.
20:50:53 <Warrigal> We want adduser with --disabled-login and --no-create-home...
20:51:10 <AnMaster> in /etc/sudoers: anmaster ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/chroot /mnt/gentoo32 /usr/bin/sudo -u anmaster /bin/bash -c ( cd ~ ; /bin/bash )
20:51:43 <AnMaster> for /mnt/gentoo32/etc/sudoers it is enough to have the allow everything for root default line
20:52:05 <AnMaster> then the user just runs: linux32 sudo /usr/bin/chroot ${JAIL_DIR} /usr/bin/sudo -u "anmaster" /bin/bash -c "( cd ~ ; /bin/bash )"
20:52:38 <AnMaster> where JAIL_DIR is set in the script I copied the line from...
20:52:44 <AnMaster> ehird, works great :)
20:53:08 <AnMaster> sudo in jail doesn't even need to be suid, since only root runs it, it could be executable by root only
20:54:06 <Warrigal> Our activate script, http://normish.org/root/usr/bin/nomic/rtbls/activate, is... rather convoluted, I find.
20:54:12 <AnMaster> ehird, *as far as I know* this is safe
20:54:17 <AnMaster> not 100% sure though
20:54:20 <ehird> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
20:54:41 <Warrigal> $((($(ls -1 . | wc -l)+1)/2))
20:54:46 <ehird> Warrigal: it was written by ais523 to prove me wrong, are you surprised?
20:54:50 <ehird> on one line, too.
20:54:51 <ehird> over IRC.
20:55:11 <AnMaster> Warrigal, heh
20:55:15 <Warrigal> Does that pretty much mean "the number of files in this folder, plus one, divided by two, rounded down"?
20:55:36 <Warrigal> I wonder if I can change ls -1 . to list only directories.
20:55:45 <AnMaster> Warrigal, echo */
20:55:50 <AnMaster> would do it
20:55:54 <AnMaster> I believe
20:56:08 <AnMaster> no idea why ls is needed there
20:56:18 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: why is not scp working?
20:56:19 <AnMaster> ehird, prove you wrong about what?
20:56:26 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: what command are you using?
20:56:35 <bsmntbombdood> ...scp
20:56:40 <ehird> i mean
20:56:41 <ehird> the whole thing :|
20:56:45 <ehird> (because i dunno)
20:56:54 <AnMaster> what?
20:56:58 <AnMaster> can't you read his mind
20:57:03 <AnMaster> !?
20:57:05 <AnMaster> fraud!
20:57:07 <bsmntbombdood> scp ~/python/bsmnt_bot.tgz bsmnt@std-eso.org:
20:57:13 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: std-eso.org
20:57:14 <ehird> eso-std.org
20:57:16 <ehird> compare
20:57:20 <bsmntbombdood> ooops :P
20:57:25 <ehird> :DD
20:58:44 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: I assume the chroot is 32-bit? then I'd better install linux32
20:58:57 <bsmntbombdood> oh balls
20:59:06 <ehird> it's ok
20:59:14 <ehird> linux32 solves all issues everywhere
20:59:17 <ehird> constantly.
20:59:21 <ehird> like aids and cancer. just apply linux32.
20:59:22 <Warrigal> (echo */ | wc) instead of (ls -1 . | wc -l)?
20:59:34 <bsmntbombdood> smp?
20:59:39 <bsmntbombdood> how many procs have you got?
20:59:55 <ehird> beats me :3
20:59:58 <ehird> oh
21:00:00 <ehird> procs=processors?
21:00:08 <bsmntbombdood> yes
21:00:15 <ehird> this is a VPS, it's some weird shit, apparently it's shared between all of the servers
21:00:18 <ehird> so "it depends"
21:00:24 <bsmntbombdood> oh
21:00:43 <ehird> i am too poor to afford a dedi :} but this is functionally equivalent for 99% of stuff so.
21:00:58 <ehird> this is one huge bot tarball you've got here
21:01:24 <bsmntbombdood> only 22mg
21:01:30 <bsmntbombdood> ...22mb
21:01:45 <ehird> one slow upload, wonder if that's you or the server
21:10:40 <ehird> 2m to go
21:12:18 <bsmntbombdood> finally
21:12:22 <AnMaster> night
21:12:35 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:12:50 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: woohoo
21:13:09 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: is it all ready?
21:13:15 <bsmntbombdood> no lol
21:13:19 <ehird> :DD
21:13:32 <bsmntbombdood> ugh ssh over laggy connection
21:14:22 <ehird> python2.4, oldschool
21:14:38 <bsmntbombdood> yeah :P
21:14:46 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: i need emacs or at least mg
21:15:06 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: can't you use emacs locally and tramp to connect via ssh?
21:15:09 <ehird> I'm sure I've done that.
21:15:22 <oerjan> i'd like to point out that the logs link in the topic is incorrect. only the part up to the host is case insensitive.
21:15:38 <ehird> your mom is insensitive
21:17:05 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: fine i'll install eamcs
21:17:22 <ehird> well actually mg because I hate you <.<
21:17:22 <ehird> :P
21:17:51 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you have your wish.
21:17:58 <ehird> emacsfag.
21:18:01 <ehird> :D
21:18:01 <oerjan> <GregorR> ais523: No. No there is not. As the formation of a planet takes substantially longer than a day, and there's no agreement on what exact moment the planet is considered to be a planet rather than a ball of primordial ooze.
21:18:10 <Badger> $editorfag
21:18:27 <oerjan> i'd also like to point out that when the earth was created, the day/year ratio was probably different
21:19:12 <oerjan> s/created/formed/ in case someone thinks the former has connotations
21:19:45 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: sudo ~bsmnt/python_chroot/bot/start.sh
21:19:58 <ehird> lets try this
21:20:14 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
21:20:17 <ehird> hi
21:20:18 <ehird> ^help
21:20:18 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
21:20:22 <ehird> oops
21:20:23 <ehird> ~help
21:20:26 <ehird> oh wait
21:20:28 <GregorR> THE END
21:20:30 <ehird> bsmnt_bot has no help
21:20:31 <bsmntbombdood> oh snap
21:20:32 <ehird> ~eval 2+2
21:20:34 <bsmntbombdood> it actually worked
21:20:35 <bsmntbombdood> jesus
21:20:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: did it?
21:20:41 <ehird> ~exec 2+2
21:20:44 <ehird> ~exec print 2+2
21:20:46 <bsmntbombdood> i didn't expect that to happen
21:20:50 <ehird> :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :~exec print 2+2
21:20:50 <ehird> 4
21:20:51 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: what do you see on stdout?
21:20:52 <ehird> lol
21:21:04 <ehird> do infiniloops still break it?
21:21:10 <ehird> ~exec while True: print 'a'
21:21:16 <ehird> yes
21:21:19 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:21:19 <bsmntbombdood> ~quit
21:22:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
21:22:08 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:22:19 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: redirect stdout and stderr to ~bsmnt/output plox
21:22:24 <ehird> yes yes sec
21:22:30 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: how about using nohup
21:22:31 <ehird> :P
21:22:36 <ehird> but k
21:22:58 <bsmntbombdood> you deleted my fifo
21:23:10 <ehird> er, oops
21:23:11 <ehird> did i
21:23:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: put it back?
21:23:42 <bsmntbombdood> kay
21:23:49 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
21:23:49 <ehird> done
21:23:53 <ehird> hi bsmnt_bot
21:23:53 <bsmntbombdood> foo
21:24:01 <bsmntbombdood> hmm not getting anything
21:24:06 <ehird> worked for me
21:24:17 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout.write('yoyo')
21:24:17 <bsmnt_bot> yoyo
21:24:22 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout.write('i am green')
21:24:23 <bsmnt_bot> i am green
21:24:29 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout.write(repr(self))
21:24:29 <bsmntbombdood> are you tailing output too?
21:24:29 <bsmnt_bot> <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xf7cb86ec>
21:24:31 <bsmntbombdood> stop that
21:24:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: no.
21:24:37 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec sys.stdout("foo")
21:24:37 <bsmnt_bot> foo
21:24:40 <bsmntbombdood> cool it works
21:24:45 <ehird> ~exec a
21:24:45 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name 'a' is not defined
21:24:49 <ehird> ^^
21:24:50 <ehird> :D
21:24:59 <ehird> bsmnt_bot: GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK, YOUR BUGGINESS <3
21:25:00 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:25:02 <ehird> ...
21:25:09 <bsmntbombdood> what happened
21:25:14 <ehird> i dont know
21:25:49 <bsmntbombdood> it should be restarting automatically
21:26:01 <ehird> root@rutian:/home/bsmnt# nohup ~bsmnt/python_chroot/bot/start.sh >output 2>&1 &
21:26:01 <ehird> tjat
21:26:05 <ehird> 's how i started it
21:26:26 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: look at start.sh
21:26:29 <ehird> why would it restatr
21:26:39 <bsmntbombdood> hrm
21:27:14 <bsmntbombdood> it's been so long since i've looked at this code
21:27:23 <ehird> i'll fix it later ;)
21:27:37 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
21:27:40 <ehird> meanwhile, enjoy
21:27:53 <bsmntbombdood> foo
21:28:11 <bsmntbombdood> ~raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
21:28:12 <bsmnt_bot> foo
21:30:54 <bsmntbombdood> hrm
21:31:26 <oerjan> <ehird> are you all DENSE
21:31:33 <bsmntbombdood> ?
21:31:36 <oerjan> YOU are dense. you are a black hole, remember?
21:31:51 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec while 1: sys.stdout("spam")
21:31:51 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood).
21:32:03 <bsmntbombdood> i thought i put in flood protection
21:33:01 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: iirc you only did that for individual sys.stdout() calls
21:33:35 <bsmntbombdood> well that was stupid of me
21:36:59 <oerjan> <ehird> unless someone is confused, it can be taken as read that we get the bloody context
21:37:17 <oerjan> yes, but it's still obscure to bring up unicorns
21:37:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
21:38:52 <bsmntbombdood> iirc there are some pretty cool python hacks in that bot
21:42:46 <Warrigal> Oh, bsmnt_bot.
21:42:54 <ehird> sigh
21:42:57 <ehird> it broke already?
21:43:38 <bsmntbombdood> i thought it had better flood control
21:43:58 * ehird makes it run in a while tru
21:43:58 <ehird> e
21:44:16 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: wrap start.sh in something like while [ -f keep_running]; do start.sh; done
21:44:28 <ehird> # (while true; do nohup ~bsmnt/python_chroot/bot/start.sh >output 2>&1; done) &
21:44:32 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
21:44:33 <ehird> WFM
21:44:39 <Warrigal> ~exec random()
21:44:39 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name 'random' is not defined
21:44:45 <ehird> ~exec while 1: sys.stdout('i like big butts and I cannot lie')
21:44:45 <bsmnt_bot> i like big butts and I cannot lie
21:44:45 <bsmnt_bot> i like big butts and I cannot lie
21:44:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood).
21:44:46 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
21:44:48 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
21:44:50 <ehird> see?
21:45:00 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(__import__('random').random())
21:45:00 <bsmnt_bot> 0.663668683347
21:45:09 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(__import__('random').randomInt())
21:45:10 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'randomInt'
21:45:12 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec random.random()
21:45:13 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name 'random' is not defined
21:45:16 <ehird> Warrigal: lern2python
21:45:17 <ehird> ~exec __import__('socket')
21:45:20 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(dir(__import__('random')))
21:45:23 <ehird> ugh we need an auto-print
21:45:25 <bsmnt_bot> ['BPF', 'LOG4', 'NV_MAGICCONST', 'RECIP_BPF', 'Random', 'SG_MAGICCONST', 'SystemRandom', 'TWOPI', 'WichmannHill', '_BuiltinMethodType', '_MethodType', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '_acos', '_cos', '_e', '_exp', '_hexlify', '_inst', '_log', '_pi', '_random', '_sin', '_sqrt', '_test', '_test_generator', '_urandom', '_warn', 'betavariate', 'ch
21:45:27 <ehird> ~exec print __import__('socket')
21:45:30 <bsmnt_bot> oice', 'expovariate', 'gammavariate', 'gauss', 'getrandbits', 'getstate', 'jumpahead', 'lognormvariate', 'normalvariate', 'paretovariate', 'randint', 'random', 'randrange', 'sample', 'seed', 'setstate', 'shuffle', 'uniform', 'vonmisesvariate', 'weibullvariate']
21:45:30 <Warrigal> Huh.
21:45:34 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(repr(__import__('socket'))
21:45:34 <bsmnt_bot> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing
21:45:36 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(repr(__import__('socket')))
21:45:41 <ehird> hellllllooooooooooo
21:45:44 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(__import__('random').randint(5))
21:45:46 <bsmnt_bot> <module 'socket' from '/usr/lib/python2.4/socket.pyc'>
21:45:52 <bsmnt_bot> TypeError: randint() takes exactly 3 arguments (2 given)
21:46:00 <ehird> Cool, we have sockets.
21:46:01 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(__import__('random').randint(1,5))
21:46:04 <bsmnt_bot> 3
21:46:11 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(repr(open('start.sh').read()))
21:46:11 <bsmnt_bot> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'start.sh'
21:46:28 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(repr(open('bin').read()))
21:46:29 <bsmnt_bot> IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory
21:46:32 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: /bot/start.sh
21:46:33 <Warrigal> ~exec self.randint = __import('random').randint
21:46:34 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name '__import' is not defined
21:46:35 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(repr(open('bot/start.sh').read()))
21:46:39 <Warrigal> ~exec self.randint = __import__('random').randint
21:46:44 <bsmnt_bot> '#! /bin/bash\n\nCHROOT=/home/bsmnt/python_chroot/\n\nif grep bot/files.img /etc/mtab\nthen\n echo\nelse\n mount $CHROOT/bot/files.img $CHROOT/bot/scripts -o loop,noexec,nodev,nosuid\nfi\n\nchroot $CHROOT /usr/bin/nice -n 7 /usr/bin/python2.4 /bot/ircbot.py\n'
21:46:46 <bsmntbombdood> join #bsmnt_bot_errors for full error trackbacks
21:46:48 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: can it write to itself?
21:46:54 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: huh?
21:47:02 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Couldn't I destroy its python file right now?
21:47:08 <ehird> From ~exec.
21:47:18 <Warrigal> ~exec self.blah = lambda: self.randint(1,5)
21:47:28 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: i can't remember
21:47:33 <ehird> :D
21:47:37 <ehird> it's a bit flaky ain't it
21:47:55 <Warrigal> ~exec blah = self.blah; sys.stdout([blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah()])
21:47:56 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
21:48:10 * Warrigal blinks
21:48:19 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec map(lambda x, y: x ^ y, list('ABCDEF'), (list('CFGHJK'))
21:48:19 <bsmnt_bot> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing
21:48:23 <Warrigal> ~exec blah = bot.blah; sys.stdout([blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah(),blah()])
21:48:26 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
21:48:38 <bsmntbombdood> ...that's odd
21:48:38 <ehird> Warrigal: try #bsmnt_bot_errors
21:48:46 <Warrigal> Okies.
21:48:46 <ehird> ~exec bot
21:48:54 <Warrigal> ~exec self
21:49:00 <ehird> o.o
21:49:02 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(self)
21:49:02 <bsmnt_bot> <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xf7c616ec>
21:49:08 <ehird> ~exec sys.exit()
21:49:14 <ehird> ...
21:49:15 <ehird> huh
21:49:15 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout(self.blah)
21:49:16 <bsmnt_bot> <function <lambda> at 0xf7c6756c>
21:49:18 <ehird> ~exec sys.exit(0)
21:49:21 <ehird> ~exec sys._exit(0)
21:49:21 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '_exit'
21:49:29 <ehird> ah
21:49:42 <bsmntbombdood> sys.exit should work
21:49:46 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout([self.blah() for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10])
21:49:46 <bsmnt_bot> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing
21:49:52 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout([self.blah() for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]])
21:49:53 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
21:50:00 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout([bot.blah() for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]])
21:50:00 <ehird> lol va
21:50:01 <ehird> t
21:50:07 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
21:50:10 <Warrigal> Blah.
21:50:26 <Warrigal> ~exec bot.blah()
21:50:26 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
21:50:29 <ehird> ~exec self.__sys
21:50:31 <ehird> oh
21:50:32 <ehird> Warrigal:
21:50:34 <ehird> bot.blah
21:50:35 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute '__sys'
21:50:35 <ehird> mentions self
21:50:37 <ehird> I bet it
21:50:37 <Warrigal> Okay.
21:50:50 <ehird> Warrigal:
21:50:50 <ehird> 21:47 <Warrigal> ~exec self.blah = lambda: self.randint(1,5)
21:50:53 <ehird> spot the error
21:50:58 <ehird> (It needs "lambda self: ...")
21:51:03 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving...").
21:51:03 <Warrigal> self in a lambda.
21:51:11 <ehird> ~exec self.blah = lambda self: self.randint(1,5)
21:51:13 <Warrigal> And that too.
21:51:17 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(self.blah())
21:51:17 <bsmnt_bot> TypeError: <lambda>() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
21:51:21 <ehird> oh.
21:51:23 <ehird> oh, right
21:51:28 <ehird> Warrigal: solution:
21:51:44 <ehird> ~exec self.blah = (lambda this: (lambda: this.randint(1,5)))(self)
21:51:48 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(self.blah())
21:51:48 <bsmnt_bot> 5
21:51:51 <Warrigal> ~exec sys.stdout([__import__('random').randint(1,5) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]])
21:51:51 <bsmnt_bot> [5, 1, 5, 3, 2, 2, 4, 2, 5, 3]
21:52:00 <Warrigal> I think it generates a random integer from 1 to 5.
21:52:12 <Warrigal> ~raw JOIN ##nomic
21:52:20 <ehird> only for bsmnt.
21:52:21 <ehird> ~exec self._ = (lambda this: (lambda l: l(this)))(self)
21:52:24 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec map(lambda x, y: chr(ord(x) ^ ord(y)), list('Hello'), list('jtcvb'))
21:52:32 <Warrigal> ~exec self.raw('JOIN ##nomic')
21:52:36 <ehird> ~exec self.blahhy = self._(lambda this: this)
21:52:40 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(self.blahhy)
21:52:40 <bsmnt_bot> <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xf7c616ec>
21:52:42 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(self.blahhy())
21:52:43 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no __call__ method
21:52:48 <ehird> oh
21:52:54 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec sys.stdout(map(lambda x, y: chr(ord(x) ^ ord(y)), list('Hello'), list('jtcvb')))
21:52:55 <bsmnt_bot> ['"', '\x11', '\x0f', '\x1a', '\r']
21:53:08 <ehird> ~exec self._ = (lambda this: (lambda l: lambda *a, **k: l(this, *a, **k)))(self)
21:53:16 <ehird> ~exec self.blahhy = self._(lambda this, a: (this,a))
21:53:19 <Warrigal> ~exec self.raw('PRIVMSG ##nomic :%n' % __import__('random').randint(1,5))
21:53:19 <bsmnt_bot> ValueError: unsupported format character 'n' (0x6e) at index 18
21:53:21 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout(self.blahhy(2))
21:53:22 <bsmnt_bot> (<__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xf7c616ec>, 2)
21:53:26 <ehird> Warrigal: I made defining functions easy.
21:53:30 <ehird> 21:53 <ehird> ~exec self.blahhy = self._(lambda this, a: (this,a))
21:53:38 <Warrigal> ~exec self.raw('PRIVMSG ##nomic :%d' % __import__('random').randint(1,5))
21:56:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec sys.stdout([ i for i in map(lambda x, y: chr(ord(x) ^ ord(y)), list('Hello'), list('jtcvb')) ])
21:56:38 <bsmnt_bot> ['"', '\x11', '\x0f', '\x1a', '\r']
21:56:45 <ehird> KingOfKarlsruhe: What are you doing?
21:56:53 <KingOfKarlsruhe> just for fun :)
21:59:01 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec sys.stdout(map(lambda x, y: chr(ord(x) ^ ord(y)), ['"', '\x11', '\x0f', '\x1a', '\r'], list('jtcvb')))
21:59:01 <bsmnt_bot> ['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o']
21:59:41 <ehird> KingOfKarlsruhe: Ah, http://monolith.sourceforge.net/?
22:00:08 <bsmntbombdood> i'm just surprised that bsmnt_bot worked on the first try
22:00:14 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: :)
22:02:33 <Warrigal> Haskell: {decode ('#':x:xs) = x `asciiXOR` ' ' : decode xs; decode ('$':x:xs) = x `asciiXOR` '@' : decode xs; decode ('%':x:xs) = x `asciiXOR` '`' : decode xs; decode (x:xs) = x : decode xs; decode [] = []}
22:02:47 <ehird> what?
22:02:47 <Warrigal> Where asciiXOR converts characters into numbers, bitwise XORs them, and converts them back.
22:02:52 <Warrigal> How would you do that in Python?
22:02:55 <ehird> that's nothing remotely like KingOfKarlsruhe's...
22:03:12 <Warrigal> Yes, but KingOfKarlsruhe's reminded me of this.
22:03:37 <ehird> ah
22:08:33 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec sys.stdout(__import__('md5').md5.md5('Hello world!').hexdigest())
22:08:34 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: 'builtin_function_or_method' object has no attribute 'md5'
22:08:57 <bsmntbombdood> that's not how the md5 module works
22:09:27 <Warrigal> You have a lot of md5s there.
22:09:32 <Warrigal> s/.md5.md5/.md5/
22:09:45 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ~exec sys.stdout(__import__('md5').md5('Hello world!').hexdigest())
22:09:45 <bsmnt_bot> 86fb269d190d2c85f6e0468ceca42a20
22:09:48 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ahh ^^
22:10:53 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: chop chop
22:10:57 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: get to fixing bsmntbombdood
22:11:02 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: i can't fix you.
22:11:02 <bsmntbombdood> *bsmnt_bot
22:11:03 <ehird> sorry.
22:11:07 <ehird> also, fix it how
22:11:09 <ehird> it works.
22:11:31 <bsmntbombdood> no it doesn't
22:11:37 <ehird> how doesn't it
22:12:20 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.add_callback(".*foofoo.*", lambda *args:self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % "fofofofofofof"))
22:12:21 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute 'add_callback'
22:12:31 <ehird> huh
22:12:35 <ehird> what's up with that
22:13:21 <bsmntbombdood> oops
22:13:28 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.register_raw(".*foofoo.*", lambda *args:self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % "fofofofofofof"))
22:13:36 <bsmntbombdood> foofoo
22:13:36 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
22:13:45 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.register_raw(".*foofoo.*", lambda *args:bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % "fofofofofofof"))
22:13:45 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
22:13:48 <bsmntbombdood> foofoo
22:14:03 <bsmnt_bot> fofofofofofof
22:14:05 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: global name 'self' is not defined
22:14:23 <bsmnt_bot> fofofofofofof
22:14:33 <bsmntbombdood> ~quit
22:14:33 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit.
22:14:35 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
22:14:37 <bsmntbombdood> foofoo
22:14:44 <bsmntbombdood> that's why it doesn't work
22:14:52 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: oh, no persistence?
22:14:56 <ehird> persistence is for weenies
22:15:01 <bsmntbombdood> callbacks are supposed to be persistant
22:15:06 <ehird> ah
22:15:33 <ehird> that's odd
22:16:20 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: why doesn't it work
22:19:42 <bsmntbombdood> actually i think you might have to do it manually
22:19:50 <bsmntbombdood> with load_callbacks/save_callbacks or soemthing
22:20:15 <ehird> ah
22:22:19 <bsmntbombdood> or maybe that's in betterbot.py
22:22:26 <bsmntbombdood> i can see why they say it's good to comment your code
22:23:08 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: why not use betterbot then
22:23:44 <bsmntbombdood> because the startup script has stuff that i added later
22:23:51 <bsmntbombdood> making me think that betterbot is an old version
22:23:53 <bsmntbombdood> not sure though
22:24:07 <ehird> i can see bsmnt_bot is a well-maintained piece of software
22:24:16 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:24:19 <bsmntbombdood> hells yes
22:24:59 * ehird note to self: never let bsmntbombdood touch code
22:25:17 <bsmntbombdood> hey i'm one badass programmer
22:25:30 <Badger> a bad ass-programmer?
22:25:56 <bsmntbombdood> Badger: only if you want me to be, baby
22:26:05 <Badger> :D
22:26:41 <Warrigal> Boss, I think there's something wrong with that programmer you hired.
22:26:54 <Warrigal> He doesn't actually do anything; he just sits around and eats carrots.
22:27:11 <bsmntbombdood> i hate puns
22:27:55 <Warrigal> When I told him to write a program for me, he just brayed at me.
22:29:43 <bsmntbombdood> I WANT TO TASTE YOUR FLUIDS
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22:32:12 <oerjan> Warrigal: don't give him any more carrots until his program compiles successfully. i'm sure you can take it from there.
22:32:27 <ehird> :(
22:33:01 <oerjan> also, wear protective clothing when you tell him about this policy
22:33:39 <ehird> stop making me sad oerjan
22:36:03 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: want kind of loser doesn't have libevent installed
22:36:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: one whose server has absolutely nothing on
22:36:23 <ehird> what do you want libevent for ey
22:36:31 <oerjan> now now i didn't say the program had to actually _work_
22:36:42 <oerjan> we're not complete sadists here
22:37:18 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: ?
22:37:30 <bsmntbombdood> wtf?
22:37:42 <ehird> pj
22:37:47 <ehird> you don't mean my server?
22:37:48 <ehird> i was just guessing
22:37:55 <bsmntbombdood> ./a.out
22:38:08 <bsmntbombdood> -bash: ./a.out: No such file or directory
22:38:31 <ehird> oh jeez, bsmntbombdood,
22:38:34 <ehird> output is in ~ehird
22:38:34 <ehird> XD
22:38:41 <ehird> also
22:38:49 <ehird> a.out: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
22:38:51 <ehird> lern264-bit
22:38:58 <ehird> that's why it doesn't work
22:39:14 <ehird> ^@Welcome, Your nick: ^@<^@> ^@Thank you ^@
22:39:15 <ehird> Active users: ^@, ^@*system*: ^@ has joined
22:39:17 <ehird> wut is it
22:39:34 <bsmntbombdood> lol did you string it?
22:39:39 <ehird> vi
22:39:41 <ehird> i'm harcore
22:39:42 <ehird> hardcore
22:39:52 <oerjan> harcen to ehird
22:40:07 <bsmntbombdood> telnet to eso-std.org port 12345
22:41:01 <ehird> you quit
22:41:02 <ehird> :(
22:41:10 <bsmntbombdood> wtf it crashed
22:41:19 <ehird> how did you run it
22:41:21 <bsmntbombdood> lol
22:41:26 <ehird> it's 32-bit
22:41:36 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: so is the stuff in the chroot
22:41:38 <ehird> o, we have linux32
22:41:38 <bsmntbombdood> that worked
22:41:39 <bsmntbombdood> dunno
22:41:40 <ehird> weird
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22:42:28 <bsmntbombdood> telnet in again
22:42:44 <bsmntbombdood> lol wtf did you do
22:42:49 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: Welcome, Your nick: ^[[A^[[A
22:42:56 <bsmntbombdood> what exactly did you type?
22:43:03 <ehird> ^[[A - up key
22:43:05 <bsmntbombdood> maybe i should add some sanity checking...
22:43:13 -!- dkoder has left (?).
22:43:27 * Warrigal ponders the use of production rules in compiling
22:43:51 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: use a real nick
22:43:59 <ehird> all yur messages are blank
22:44:32 <ehird> FIX IT
22:44:45 <Warrigal> <expression with variables X> -> lambda <variable Y not in X> -> <expression with variables X union {Y}>
22:44:48 <Warrigal> Hmm.
22:45:17 <bsmntbombdood> no u
22:45:34 <ehird> FIX IT
22:45:39 <bsmntbombdood> ehird: telnet back in and use a real nick
22:45:44 <bsmntbombdood> just alphanums, then hit enter
22:45:48 <bsmntbombdood> fuck you
22:45:55 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: sorry
22:45:56 <ehird> I HAD TO
22:45:58 <ehird> i'll connect properly now
22:46:31 <bsmntbombdood> you did it wrong
22:46:35 <bsmntbombdood> it's not working
22:46:43 <ehird> o.o
22:47:03 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: ?
22:47:58 <bsmntbombdood> whatever i have to go to work
22:48:01 <bsmntbombdood> i'll fix it later
22:48:50 <ehird> :D
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23:28:24 <ehird> Sure, iMovie as a web app. Uh-huh. Slogan: “And you thought USB was slow.” -- John Gruber
23:41:42 <psygnisfive> guys
23:41:47 <psygnisfive> you like guns germs and steel right?
23:42:31 <oerjan> steel is fine, the others i'm not quite as fond of
23:42:37 <psygnisfive> :P
23:42:40 <oerjan> (yeah i know it's a book title)
00:09:31 <ehird> should I feel guilty about coding a bsmnt_bot competitor
00:18:19 <oerjan> you evil evil man
00:18:34 <Warrigal> "No," says my Adam Smith puppet.
00:18:55 <Warrigal> I think he's saying that to ehird.
00:19:16 * oerjan hits the Adam Smith puppet over the head with the saucepan of nations ====\___/
00:23:57 <ehird> The nice thing about my bot is that it'll have eval, but it won't be able to break the bot.
00:24:02 <ehird> But you'll be able to fiddle with it
00:24:06 <ehird> Also, it'll have esolang interps and stuff.
00:24:09 <ehird> Also, a babble generator.
00:24:16 <ehird> In short, a nice respectable #esoteric bot, with fun Python evaluation.
00:26:37 <Warrigal> Maybe I'll make a bot, too.
00:26:49 <ehird> :)
00:26:53 <ehird> Also, mine will log this channel.
00:27:00 <ehird> So you don't have to use the awful tunes.org log interface.
00:27:20 <Warrigal> I've always wanted to make a fake bashbot.
00:27:29 <ehird> eh?
00:28:33 <Warrigal> An IRC bot that looks like bash but isn't.
00:28:40 <ehird> define bash
00:28:43 <ehird> the shell?
00:28:53 <Warrigal> The shell, sure.
00:29:00 <ehird> what did you mean
00:29:00 <ehird> :P
00:29:13 <Warrigal> The shell.
00:29:35 <Warrigal> I don't think I know of any other bashes.
00:30:10 <ehird> bash.org
00:31:22 <ehird> Message('PRIVMSG', '#esoteric', 'Hello, world!')
00:32:05 * Warrigal nods
00:32:41 <ehird> >>> botte.message.Message('PRIVMSG', '#esoteric', 'Hello, world!')
00:32:41 <ehird> PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
00:32:46 <ehird> Phear my 1337 skillz.
00:33:55 * Warrigal ponders what programs a person could possibly want
00:34:21 <ehird> irc
00:34:56 <Warrigal> A few: cat, chmod, chown, irc, mkdir, rm, rmdir
00:35:37 <oerjan> it's Ye Olde Botte!
00:36:04 <oerjan> Warrigal: dwim
00:36:25 <Warrigal> I suppose some commands to interact with running processes would be nice. bash itself would also be useful, of course.
00:36:45 <ehird> oerjan: yes, botte is sucha nice name
00:37:29 <Warrigal> Then again, I don't want to go overboard with trying to be like a Unix system. So no fancy process interaction that wouldn't be easy to implement anyway.
00:37:38 <ehird> Warrigal: what are you doing?
00:37:48 <Warrigal> Wanting to make a fake bashbot.
00:37:56 <ehird> Ohhhh, I see
00:38:02 <ehird> oerjan: will you be friends with botte?
00:38:32 <Warrigal> I guess I would also include echo.
00:47:18 <ehird> botte.bot.Bot().plugins['karma'].commands[0].handle(bot, botte.message.Message('PRIVMSG', '#esoteric', '.hello'))
00:47:21 <ehird> ^ worse than java :D
00:48:34 <oerjan> this will be the botte of our jokes
00:49:25 <ehird> XD
00:49:29 <ehird> oerjan: i love you.
00:50:09 <oerjan> how nice.
00:50:14 <ehird> oerjan: :|
00:51:26 <oerjan> why the long face?
00:51:34 <ehird> beats me
00:51:50 <oerjan> no, _this_ beats you ====\___/
00:51:57 <ehird> lol
00:52:01 <ehird> botte should have a .swat
00:52:07 <ehird> so oerjan doesn't have to do any work
00:52:21 * oerjan never does any work anyhow
00:53:06 <ehird> swatting is hard work!
00:53:26 <oerjan> virtually exhausting!
00:55:56 <ehird> hmm I have a bit of a possible bottleneck here
00:56:06 <ehird> possibly parsing the input stream for a command -everysingletime- isn't so clever
00:56:13 <oerjan> YM botte-l-neck
00:59:55 <ehird> hmm, I'll compile everything down to regexps...
00:59:56 <ehird> ...tomorrow
01:05:29 <ehird> i'm... so decisive
01:05:38 <ehird> whoa holy shit, oklopol moment coming on.
01:08:02 <oerjan> it's because oklopol isn't here
01:08:19 <oerjan> his spirit is possessing you
01:08:25 <ehird> o.o
01:09:23 * oerjan bringeth forth ye holie exorcising swatter -----###
01:10:13 <ehird> ow
01:10:26 <oerjan> please do not resist, or we'll have to do ye holy hand grenade next
01:11:00 <oerjan> BEGONE, FOULE DAEMONE
01:11:47 * oerjan watcheth ye eville daemone runne away in ye form of a rabbite
01:30:42 * ehird decides that one match of a regex then a dictionary lookup is faster than many matches of a regex.
02:28:31 <Warrigal> I love Ye Olde Butcherede Englifhe.
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02:50:44 <psygnisfive> i hope you dont think that "ye olde butcherede englifhe" is the same as "old english"
02:51:26 <oerjan> i hope psygnisfive knows the meaning of the word "butchered[e]" :D
02:51:48 <psygnisfive> i do, but i mean the general "ye olde englifhe" type stuff
02:51:55 <psygnisfive> not the butcherede part :p
02:53:00 * oerjan trieth to use -th correctly, at least
02:53:36 <oerjan> the rest - not so much
02:53:39 <psygnisfive> the thing with older -th is that its basically where we use -s today
02:53:45 <psygnisfive> so you sound like you've got a lisp
02:53:46 <psygnisfive> :)
02:53:56 <oerjan> you don't thay
02:54:05 <psygnisfive> i said -s not just s :P
02:54:28 <psygnisfive> but yeah, "ye olde englifhe" is not Old English
02:54:49 * oerjan assumeth it is closer to Middle
02:54:49 <psygnisfive> if anything its early modern english before the standardization of spelling
02:54:59 <oerjan> or that
02:57:57 <psygnisfive> Hw<CTCP>æt! Wē Gār-Dena in geār-dagum, þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. Oft scyld scefingsceaþena þreatum, monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah, ogsode eorl.
03:02:12 <psygnisfive> that sir
03:02:16 <psygnisfive> that is Old English
03:02:39 * oerjan guessed as much
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03:23:38 <Warrigal> Speaking Old English be all about using the subjunctive.
03:24:16 <Warrigal> Saying "That were hard to compass." instead of "That is hard to compass." make all the difference.
03:24:54 <oerjan> Warrigal speak much nonsense
03:25:10 <Warrigal> It be only the subjunctive, my friend.
03:25:46 <Warrigal> Anyway, no more complete sentences for me. Shunning verbs, and all. Much more flexible this way.
03:26:18 <Warrigal> Peculiar or just iffy tendency, perhaps, but no problem to understand.
03:26:27 <Warrigal> Remind me of palindromes, actually.
03:26:32 <oerjan> Warrigal spækas myki baldurdashi
03:27:09 <Warrigal> Ah, the wonders of speaking entirely in incomplete sentences...
03:27:35 <oerjan> I accidentally complete sentences too
03:27:40 -!- GregorR has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
03:28:01 <oerjan> ack, new year topic accidentally over
03:28:14 <GregorR> Accidentally?
03:28:26 <GregorR> The log link was wrong :P
03:28:50 <oerjan> well yeah i accidentally that earlier
03:28:55 <Warrigal> Bah, verb omission. Ungrammatical.
03:29:10 <Warrigal> Unlike omitting the subject, which I assure you is completely grammatical.
03:29:13 <Warrigal> In Spanish, anyway.
03:29:28 <oerjan> Warrigal: i accidentally your viewpoint
03:30:06 <Warrigal> Wait, "much more flexible" to avoid complete sentences completely? Yeah, right.
03:30:17 <oerjan> i would guess in old english as well, since they had more personal verb endings
03:31:04 <oerjan> istr old norse could leave out subjects, although it's been a while
03:32:37 <oerjan> i may adopt an egoistic grammar where i use only one subject for all sentences
03:33:33 <oerjan> after i drive everyone crazy with it, i will rule the world
03:34:19 <oerjan> or should we adopt a royal we, hm...
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06:57:22 <GregorR> Argh, tools are chrome-plated.
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08:28:11 <CakeProphet> GregorR: in bf, does - wrap back around to 255?
08:28:20 <CakeProphet> or is it NOP for 0's
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08:54:36 <Mony> plo
08:56:18 <GregorR> CakeProphet: Depends on the implementation.
08:56:28 <GregorR> CakeProphet: In most implementations it raps around.
08:56:30 <GregorR> *wraps
08:56:38 <CakeProphet> no no, I think that's a good idea
08:56:52 <CakeProphet> my Haskell implementation will freestyle upon decrementing a 0
08:57:01 <GregorR> ... "freestyle"?
08:57:24 <CakeProphet> well, unless you mean something else by "raps around".
08:57:43 <GregorR> I mean that when you subtract from 0, it goes to MAXVAL.
09:01:26 <GregorR> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v47/BenMaras/?action=view&current=ijoystick.png (NSFW, NSF-sanity)
09:03:12 <CakeProphet> -clicks-
09:03:54 <Mony> heh :p
09:08:23 * CakeProphet places an order for girlfriend
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14:13:06 <ehird> you know what i like
14:13:13 <ehird> bsmnt_bot.
14:13:19 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout('why thank you')
14:13:19 <bsmnt_bot> why thank you
14:13:28 <ehird> so good to have you back old chap
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14:36:45 <ehird> Hmm...
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15:18:42 <ehird> Pop quiz: how long do you think it'd take to match 100 short regexps against a short text?
15:20:24 <oerjan> finally a question within my expertise - oh wait
15:20:34 <ehird> :D
15:20:50 <oerjan> but if i may guess: "not very long"
15:24:02 <ehird> oerjan: how much faster than matching 1 short regexp against the same text, then doing a hashtable lookup on one of the groups?
15:24:14 <ehird> i imagine the answer is "0.5ms"
15:24:39 <oerjan> now we're _really_ out of my expertise
15:26:24 <oerjan> although hm, you should be able to do 100 regexps in parallel by merging the finite state automata. that would be assuming they're actually implemented that way
15:27:02 <oerjan> or maybe the number of states will blow up exponentially (^100)
15:27:22 <ehird> oerjan: I think python regexps are less speedy than FSAs
15:27:25 <ehird> because of backrefs
15:28:08 <oerjan> yeah regexps mean more than the CS definition these days
15:28:33 <oerjan> i think optimizing it can depend a lot on the form of the regexps
15:29:17 <oerjan> and did i mention my lack of expertise?
15:29:44 <ehird> oerjan: what's worth noting is that these regexps are matching a line from irc.
15:29:50 <ehird> to choose which command to run.
15:29:55 <ehird> very speed-sensitive,
15:31:13 <oerjan> um how many thousand channels are you watching? O_O
15:31:57 <ehird> oerjan: well, my initial deployment is 5,000 worldwide
15:31:59 <ehird> clustered
15:32:10 <ehird> then I think I'll run a few instances but with shared memory
15:32:11 <oerjan> oh mad science
15:32:14 <ehird> long-term, about 100,000 channels
15:32:22 <ehird> which get 100 messages/sec each
15:33:21 <ehird> hopefully I will then implement bot procreation
15:33:27 <ehird> and all bots will eventually become botte
15:33:58 <oerjan> ic
15:34:50 <oerjan> anyway i think you should do the hashtable thing until you know you need more speed
15:36:33 <ehird> oerjan: wut? the hashtable one is the slower one
15:36:34 <ehird> :D
15:36:50 <oerjan> yes but it sounds like it is simpler
15:36:59 <oerjan> also, are you _sure_ it's slower
15:37:17 <ehird> 99% sure, dictionary lookup is like THE most optimized thing in python
15:37:20 <ehird> (because obj.foo does it)
15:37:30 <oerjan> huh?
15:37:31 <ehird> and the re module is written in pure python, IIRC
15:37:36 <ehird> re=regex
15:37:38 <ehird> so
15:37:43 <ehird> regex is almost certainly slower
15:37:44 <oerjan> that would mean hashtable should be faster
15:37:47 <ehird> yes
15:37:50 <ehird> it would be
15:37:55 <ehird> oh
15:37:56 <oerjan> er you said the opposite
15:38:00 <ehird> 15:36 <ehird> oerjan: wut? the hashtable one is the slower one aemn
15:38:02 <ehird> sould be
15:38:04 <ehird> 15:36 <ehird> oerjan: wut? the hashtable one is the faster one
15:38:29 <oerjan> well then not a problem
15:38:53 <oerjan> or rather, you have only two problems, while with 100 regexps you would have 101 problems
15:39:59 <ehird> :D
15:40:02 <ehird> but
15:40:05 <ehird> its a pain to implement
15:40:06 <ehird> so ha
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17:20:13 <Hiato> Gnock-Knock
17:20:57 <Hiato> \me pokes a bit more
17:21:08 * Hiato pokes a bit more
17:21:32 <Hiato> confused windows directory tree with IRC there :P
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17:35:12 * SimonRC wonders if people are listening here
17:38:15 <Hiato> \me wonders in response
17:38:20 * Hiato wonders in response
17:38:27 <Hiato> (... again)
17:38:55 <SimonRC> heh
17:39:38 <Hiato> SimonRC, would you mind shedding some light on a certain problem for me?
17:40:44 <SimonRC> ok, but I am busy right now
17:40:47 <SimonRC> go ahead
17:42:11 <Hiato> Ok, thanks. In your opinion, what would the best way be to grow massive numbers, quickly. That is, can you suggest/demonstrate a method that will do so.
17:42:41 <Hiato> All of this in light of my realisation that my method is not actually as large as I thought it would be - all for a little game on the xkcd fora
17:44:06 <SimonRC> busy beaver numbers are a good choice
17:44:17 <SimonRC> they grow uncomputably fast
17:44:46 <Hiato> yeah, they're perfect, but unfortunately the number has to be finite and computable. The latter cancelling out that option
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18:16:34 <ehird> 18:14 <Sfan00> Besides 12 year olds aren't supposed to use the Internet
18:16:38 <ehird> -- #wikipedia
18:16:50 <ehird> 18:14 <dungodung> in what universe?
18:16:57 <ehird> 18:15 <Sfan00> dungodung: A universe in which there are appropriate safeguards
18:23:18 <psygnisfive> i got my keyboard :D
18:23:46 <psygnisfive> ehird gt off the internets
18:23:53 <ehird> i'm 13
18:23:54 <ehird> so i'm OK
18:23:58 <ehird> but 12 year olds
18:23:59 <psygnisfive> oh ok
18:24:02 <ehird> they need appropriate safeguards.
18:24:04 <psygnisfive> in that case
18:24:10 <ais523> 13 is the COPPA age, isn't it?
18:24:10 <psygnisfive> ::raep::
18:24:12 <ehird> in case they learn anything about the real world.
18:24:15 <ehird> ais523: yep.
18:24:28 <psygnisfive> yeah but hes a limey 13 year old
18:24:37 <psygnisfive> so noone cares about his protection and privacy
18:24:37 <ehird> do my "yes I am over 13" clicks on registration forms retroactively become legal when I turn 13?
18:24:49 <psygnisfive> no
18:24:56 <ehird> dammit
18:25:12 <psygnisfive> you might end up in jail :(
18:25:26 <ehird> it's ok I have green.
18:25:29 <ehird> the power of green.
18:25:31 <ais523> nah, that's a civial violation not a criminal one
18:25:32 <ais523> *civil
18:25:35 <psygnisfive> brown?
18:25:37 <ais523> so ehird can't be imprisoned, just fined lots
18:25:38 <psygnisfive> the power of brown?
18:25:42 <psygnisfive> cheese?
18:25:43 <ehird> i am very incivil
18:25:46 <psygnisfive> the power of cheese?
18:25:54 <ehird> ais523: I say I'd have clicked, hmm, at least 500 such yes links.
18:25:57 <ehird> How much can I be fined? XD
18:26:01 <psygnisfive> whatve you been looking at that requires you be 13 ehird?
18:26:07 <ehird> psygnisfive: registration forms have it.
18:26:09 <ehird> _all_ of them
18:26:11 <ehird> seriously
18:26:12 <psygnisfive> oh
18:26:13 <psygnisfive> really?
18:26:14 <psygnisfive> hm
18:26:16 <ais523> ehird: I'm not at all sure, damage calculation is something i'm rubbish at guessing
18:26:18 <ehird> it's crazy
18:26:24 <psygnisfive> obviously wouldnt be porn
18:26:28 <psygnisfive> those are 18+ here
18:26:28 <ehird> lol
18:26:31 <ehird> pg-13 porn
18:26:34 <psygnisfive> mmm yeah
18:27:01 <psygnisfive> if adult diapers are diapers for adults
18:27:06 <psygnisfive> is child porn porn for children?
18:27:46 <ehird> yes.
18:27:52 <psygnisfive> well then
18:27:56 <psygnisfive> dont look at child porn, ehird
18:28:05 <ehird> now that I'm over 13? XD
18:28:27 <psygnisfive> no, ever. porn for children is full of annoying kids doing annoying things
18:28:47 <ehird> this is some odd new definition of porn for children that I was previously unaware of
18:28:54 <psygnisfive> because theyre all kids, the whole "fake story" thing is always like
18:29:00 <psygnisfive> two kids on a playground
18:29:04 <psygnisfive> one acting all slutty
18:29:09 * ehird thinks psygnisfive is in bizarro world
18:29:10 <psygnisfive> sharing her apple juice
18:29:20 * SimonRC ponders...
18:29:21 <psygnisfive> and then next thing you know its an orgy
18:29:35 <psygnisfive> i mean, that NEVER happens!
18:29:41 <SimonRC> is is paedophilia if the child in question is older than you
18:29:57 <ehird> i don't think being attracted to people of your own age is paedophilia.
18:30:07 <psygnisfive> or a boy is riding his bike too fast, a girl police officer pulls him over
18:30:24 <ehird> and rides his bike?
18:30:26 <ehird> ok, topic over
18:30:29 <ehird> instantrimshot.com
18:30:32 <ehird> you can all go home now
18:30:34 <psygnisfive> do you realize how fast you were going? // uh no.. its a bike.. i dont have a speedometer. maybe 10 miles an hour?
18:30:41 <ehird> I SAID TOPIC OVER
18:30:48 <psygnisfive> :P
18:31:21 <psygnisfive> / YOUVE GOT A CARD IN YOUR SPOKES DO YOU REALIZE HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS? im going to have to place you under arrest!
18:31:41 <SimonRC> different topic: # There once lived a man name Oedipus Rex // You may have hear about his odd complex // His name appears in Freud's index // because he loved his mother. #
18:31:49 <ehird> >_<
18:31:57 <psygnisfive> lol
18:32:36 <SimonRC> (from Tom Lehrer)
18:32:39 <psygnisfive> theres some humor in the oedipus story vs the oedipus myth in that it was all unknown to him and once it was he gouged out his eyes and ran away from being king
18:32:50 * SimonRC goes for dinner.
18:33:04 <psygnisfive> whereas i think a lot of people unfamiliar with the myth believe that he was a case of oedipal complex
18:33:20 <ehird> doesn't freud say that _everyone_ is a case of that?
18:33:25 <psygnisfive> well yes :P
18:33:34 <psygnisfive> freud was a nutball
18:33:41 <ehird> no shit :P
18:34:01 <psygnisfive> Freudian Slip: When you say one thing and mean your mother.
18:34:07 <ehird> old
18:34:14 <psygnisfive> silence! >O
18:34:29 <psygnisfive> what instrument do you play ehird
18:34:34 <ehird> nothing :D
18:34:47 <psygnisfive> ive decided to take up keyboard
18:35:01 <ehird> i can do that
18:35:03 <ehird> watch
18:35:04 <ehird> asdjkladjhksfkjaljeoiajvog9irhbrt
18:35:06 <ehird> dfkljna'∂fgjlsk;fmbdt[;lkb;lkytdmbkntldh ,mfl,ujh
18:35:10 <psygnisfive> hooray!
18:35:18 <ehird> get it get it
18:35:22 <ehird> I was playing my keyboard
18:35:23 <ehird> ahahahhaahhaha
18:35:35 <psygnisfive> oh ill play your keyboard alright
18:35:39 <ais523> you have a ∂ on your keyboard?
18:35:40 <ehird> worst innuendo ever
18:35:45 <ehird> ais523: option-d = d
18:35:46 <ehird> err
18:35:47 <ehird>
18:35:52 <ehird> œ∑´®†¥
18:35:53 <ais523> ah, ok
18:35:54 <ehird> alt-qwerty
18:36:01 <ais523> I have a ð
18:36:02 <psygnisfive> i use unicode querty
18:36:04 <ais523> using altgr
18:36:09 <psygnisfive> so mine is ð as well
18:36:49 * ehird mac usar
18:37:34 <psygnisfive> me too
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19:21:38 <ehird> grrrrrrrr fuck relational databses
19:22:59 <ehird> graphs are awesome, however.
19:23:00 <CakeProphet> wooo... I've finally gotten truly familiar with a second programming language.
19:23:06 <ehird> CakeProphet: which two?
19:23:13 <CakeProphet> Python and Haskell
19:23:28 <ehird> CakeProphet: good taste. now learn smalltalk, lisp and c. :P
19:23:31 <CakeProphet> though technically I'm familiar with C... but I never use it unless someone needs me to.
19:24:02 <CakeProphet> I also /know/ the syntax/semantics of smalltalk and lisp
19:24:07 <CakeProphet> just don't have the experience to program things in it
19:24:35 <CakeProphet> lisp doesn't really interest me
19:24:53 <ehird> they're useful to know, conceptually
19:26:58 <ehird> http://ogdl.sourceforge.net/
19:26:59 <ehird> awesom
19:27:00 <ehird> e
19:27:07 <ehird> see, I basically have to serialize a bunch of shit as that
19:27:08 <ehird> and I'm done
19:27:18 <ehird> well, it could do with non-string types.
19:27:48 <ehird> http://ogdl.sourceforge.net/spec/ogdl-schema.htm this could work but it's just so non-automatic.
19:27:49 <ehird> hmm.
19:27:50 * ehird thinks.
19:27:56 <ehird> serializing arbitrary objects to a graph. hmm.
19:30:40 <CakeProphet> PICKLE
19:31:16 <ehird> fail
19:31:25 <ehird> pickle is 1. python-specific 2. doesn't serialize to a graph
19:35:43 * SimonRC dislikes arguing on the internet
19:35:56 <CakeProphet> SimonRC: I personally enjoy arguing on the internet.
19:36:11 <CakeProphet> it's fun, there are no consequences, and you sometimes learn things
19:36:19 <CakeProphet> why do /you/ not like arguing on the internet?
19:37:15 <ehird> SimonRC: which argument?
19:37:57 <SimonRC> I keep finding people that seem to have a crazy idea that they won't shift on
19:38:51 <SimonRC> for example, in this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/more_or_less/7798152.stm
19:39:00 <SimonRC> ehird: no, not like that
19:39:04 <ehird> :D
19:39:17 <SimonRC> the brain teaser's answer is not AFAICT right
19:39:50 <SimonRC> "a random number" doesn't say what distribution to use
19:40:07 <SimonRC> and once you pick a distribution, information leaks out
19:40:27 <SimonRC> a little of information at least
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19:49:40 <AnMaster> <ehird> grrrrrrrr fuck relational databses
19:49:42 <AnMaster> um
19:49:44 <AnMaster> why?
19:49:48 <ehird> they suck.
19:49:59 <AnMaster> ehird, like postgresql?
19:50:05 * AnMaster love postgresql
19:50:19 <ehird> postgresql is a great implementation of the relational paradigm, which is shit.
19:50:35 <AnMaster> ehird, so what sort of database do you suggest instead?
19:50:51 <ehird> read up. I'm writing a database that serializes arbitrary objects to a graph. :D
19:50:55 <AnMaster> hm
19:51:05 <AnMaster> ehird, how fast and scalable will it be?
19:51:31 <ehird> AnMaster: there's not really anything in its theoretical model that would cause it to be anything but blazing, but since I'm writing the implementation in Ruby -- not very fast.
19:51:35 <ehird> maybe scalable.
19:51:36 <ehird> we'll see.
19:51:45 <ehird> the question is, are your datasets large enough to worry about that?
19:52:03 <AnMaster> ehird, wikipedia database?
19:52:15 <ehird> AnMaster: probably take like 500 hours to import, but I don't care :)
19:52:54 <AnMaster> ehird, is there any tutorial or introduction for graph based db?
19:53:10 <ehird> AnMaster: sure. it's a graph, and it's on disk.
19:53:13 <ehird> any questions?
19:55:29 <AnMaster> ehird, well I don't see how it works for say this: SELECT pages.title AS title, revisions.text AS text FROM (pages LEFT JOIN text (pages.revision = revisions.id)) WHERE pages.protected = true;
19:55:33 <AnMaster> or something like that
19:55:38 <AnMaster> it may not be valid sql
19:55:50 <ehird> and I don't see what your point is at all.
19:55:55 <ehird> that's SQL. SQL is a relational language.
19:55:59 <ehird> why are you talking about it?
19:56:06 <AnMaster> ehird, how would you represent something like that with graph db
19:56:19 <ehird> AnMaster: you wouldn't. that's a query.
19:56:24 <ehird> databases don't store queries.
19:56:31 <AnMaster> ehird, true, but a database isn't useful if you can't query it
19:56:41 <AnMaster> so how would you represent the data and how would you query it
19:56:44 <ehird> that's completely separate to the actual database
19:56:51 <ehird> AnMaster: 1) as a graph. 2) by querying it as a graph
19:57:01 <AnMaster> ehird, can you give some example
19:57:07 <ehird> of what.
19:57:45 <AnMaster> of something equivalent to the SQL query I wrote above. I assume you wouldn't represent it as tables like that, but in some other format instead
19:58:00 <AnMaster> so I can't really ask more specific, than that
19:58:07 <ehird> it's abstract, it's just like how you could query a relational DB with any language, not just sql
19:58:15 <AnMaster> ehird, yes true
19:58:15 <ehird> so I can't exactly give you a concrete example...
19:58:20 <AnMaster> but how does the model differ?
19:58:22 <AnMaster> I mean
19:58:30 <AnMaster> would you store it as 2 tables?
19:58:32 <AnMaster> or what
19:58:32 <ehird> one's tables with columns, rows and relations, one's a graph
19:58:47 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(mathematics)
19:59:13 <AnMaster> yes I know about that, but: I don't know how it would be a db that could store pages with revisions
19:59:23 <SimonRC> I have an idea
19:59:36 <ehird> 19:55 <AnMaster> ehird, well I don't see how it works for say this: SELECT pages.title AS title, revisions.text AS text FROM (pages LEFT JOIN text (pages.revision = revisions.id)) WHERE pages.protected = true;
19:59:40 <ehird> let's invent an arbitrary query format
19:59:43 <ehird> it'd look like:
19:59:45 <AnMaster> ehird, yep
19:59:51 <AnMaster> I'm find with custom query formats
19:59:51 <SimonRC> I have a list of names and adresses of customers. How would that be stored?
20:00:02 <ehird> SimonRC: i'll answer AnMaster's question first
20:00:47 <ehird> page = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:00:53 <ehird> revision = page.revisions[page.revision]
20:00:58 <AnMaster> SimonRC, I could answer for relational db, since there is a 1-to-1 mapping there need not be more than 1 table, probably with a primary key to use as a table elsewhere
20:01:05 <ehird> it essentially comes down to OOP
20:01:09 * SimonRC watches BBC 4
20:01:18 <ehird> since an OOP system is a huge object graph, in essence
20:01:22 <AnMaster> ehird, right, there is a 1-to-many-mapping there
20:01:26 <ehird> AnMaster: no
20:01:31 <AnMaster> ehird, yes there was in my example
20:01:40 <ehird> there's no such thing as a 1-to-many mapping
20:01:42 <ehird> there's an ordered list.
20:01:51 <AnMaster> ehird, each page can have 1 or more revisions
20:01:57 <ehird> AnMaster: 1-to-many mapping is relational speak.
20:02:05 <AnMaster> ehird, well, how would that translate then?
20:02:09 <AnMaster> to graph
20:02:14 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> page = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:02:14 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> revision = page.revisions[page.revision]
20:02:21 <ehird> well
20:02:26 <ehird> p.protected == true
20:02:29 <ehird> since I used = for assignment
20:02:47 <AnMaster> ehird, if I want to get a set of revisions related to the set of protected pages?
20:02:58 <AnMaster> :/
20:03:00 <ehird> dude
20:03:02 <ehird> I fucking pasted it
20:03:06 <AnMaster> yes
20:03:10 <ehird> have it three times
20:03:11 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> page = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:03:12 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> revision = page.revisions[page.revision]
20:03:14 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> page = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:03:16 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> revision = page.revisions[page.revision]
20:03:18 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> page = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:03:18 <AnMaster> ehird, ah, so is that:
20:03:20 <ehird> 20:00 <ehird> revision = page.revisions[page.revision]
20:03:23 <AnMaster> pages = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:03:24 <AnMaster> then?
20:03:25 <AnMaster> in fact
20:03:31 <AnMaster> or
20:03:34 <AnMaster> protected_pages = pages.select(p -> p.protected = true)
20:03:35 <AnMaster> rather
20:03:45 <ehird> protected_pages = pages.select_all(p -> p.protected == true)
20:03:46 <AnMaster> since there would be more than one protected page :)
20:03:48 <AnMaster> right
20:03:56 <AnMaster> ehird, your use of singular confused me
20:03:57 <AnMaster> :P
20:04:15 <ehird> revisions = protected_pages.fold([], r,p -> r.concat(p.revisions))
20:04:22 <AnMaster> nice
20:04:27 <ehird> where the fold is just regular code
20:04:30 <ehird> instead of anything graph-specific
20:04:34 <AnMaster> right
20:04:52 <ehird> in ruby, it'd look like this
20:05:32 <ehird> revisions = Page.find_all { |p| p.protected? }.inject([]) { |r, p| r + p.revisions }
20:06:53 <ehird> 19:59 <SimonRC> I have a list of names and adresses of customers. How would that be stored?
20:07:00 <ehird> it'd be stored as a graph :-P
20:07:53 <AnMaster> ehird, none of this really help us get an understanding of what you mean
20:08:03 <ehird> there's nothing to explain
20:08:04 <ehird> it's a graph
20:08:05 <ehird> that's it
20:08:13 <AnMaster> there seems to be no wikipedia article on it, at least not with the name graph database or anything like that
20:08:38 <ehird> because a graph database is just _a graph_
20:08:49 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(mathematics)
20:08:49 <ehird> that's it
20:08:50 <ehird> end of
20:08:52 <ehird> full stop
20:08:56 * AnMaster looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_models and
20:09:07 <Slereah> Your mom's a graph.
20:09:09 <AnMaster> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Databases
20:09:18 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(mathematics)
20:09:21 <ehird> look there.
20:10:53 <AnMaster> ehird, would this imply that different objects of the same type can have different connectors, so not all pages need to link revisions, some could link something else instead
20:11:01 <AnMaster> that every object is unique?
20:11:05 <AnMaster> in it's type
20:11:13 <ehird> essentially, yes
20:11:27 <ehird> type information will be stored, but it won't be used to enforce data structure
20:11:36 <AnMaster> ehird, because relational model is pretty much a graph where each node is a table and the links are on field basis
20:11:44 <ehird> AnMaster: no.
20:11:50 <AnMaster> ehird, no?
20:12:20 <AnMaster> you can visualise the foreign key constraints as a graph
20:12:26 <AnMaster> it is rather common to do so even
20:12:50 <ehird> sure, but it's not just an arbitrary graph
20:13:02 <AnMaster> um?
20:13:10 <AnMaster> ah true
20:13:33 <AnMaster> you mean the other object doesn't need a special field to act as a "connector"+
20:13:34 <AnMaster> ?
20:13:40 <AnMaster> to match on
20:13:44 <AnMaster> rather it is like pointers
20:13:55 <AnMaster> of C structs or whatever
20:14:08 <ehird> wellllllllllllll,
20:14:10 <ehird> no.
20:14:57 <AnMaster> ehird, hm?
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20:16:36 <AnMaster> hi ais523
20:16:38 <GregorR> OK, I need to counterbalance these glasses.
20:16:47 <GregorR> What should I mount to the left side? Taking all votes! :P
20:16:48 <ais523> hi AnMaster
20:17:02 <AnMaster> GregorR, another monitor!
20:17:17 <ais523> that topic's ridiculous, surely?
20:17:22 <ais523> it's grepping the logs for a link to the logs?
20:17:32 <GregorR> ais523: Yes, yes it is :P
20:17:39 <GregorR> AnMaster: I could do that, but that's /awfully/ pointless X-D
20:17:41 <AnMaster> hah yes
20:17:51 <GregorR> Plus, would half the battery life of the whole system.
20:18:00 <AnMaster> GregorR, why? doesn't it mean you will have stereo vision?
20:18:07 <AnMaster> for the monitor
20:18:50 <ehird> GAH
20:18:51 <ehird> SOURCEFORGE
20:18:56 <AnMaster> ehird, wait
20:18:59 <AnMaster> let me guess
20:19:02 <AnMaster> they changed theme again?
20:19:05 <ehird> no
20:19:11 <GregorR> AnMaster: Can't use them both at once, the display is far outside of the center of my vision.
20:19:11 <AnMaster> ok, what then?
20:19:26 <ehird> i tried to download something and had to nab the direct link before they started automatically downloading it (FUCKERSFUCKERSFUCKERS) and then had to close that window and get it in wget
20:19:31 <AnMaster> GregorR, oh it doesn't act like a HUD for the entire field of view?
20:19:35 <AnMaster> how disappointing
20:19:47 <GregorR> AnMaster: That's the difference between $250 and $2500
20:19:52 <ehird> ...oh
20:19:54 <ehird> that sucks
20:19:57 <AnMaster> ehird, eh just cancel the automated download?
20:19:59 <ehird> i'm not your friend any more.
20:20:02 <AnMaster> GregorR, ouch
20:20:05 <ehird> AnMaster: no, fucking annoying
20:20:06 <ehird> :|
20:20:20 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean before you selected where to save it
20:20:28 <ehird> i auto-download to the desktop
20:20:28 <AnMaster> and the dialog for that isn't even modal
20:20:33 <AnMaster> ehird, how insecure
20:20:36 <ehird> and then put it where I want if I want to keep it
20:20:39 <ehird> or delete it if I don't
20:20:41 <ehird> AnMaster: wtf, how
20:20:48 <AnMaster> ehird, auto open too?
20:20:49 <AnMaster> also
20:20:51 <ehird> no.
20:20:52 <ehird> not auto open.
20:21:04 <AnMaster> "go to this link" then what if it starts to auto download lots of crap
20:21:09 <AnMaster> that you don't want
20:21:14 <ehird> then i delete it
20:21:18 <ehird> and send a mail saying "fuck you" to the site owner.
20:21:33 <AnMaster> ehird, well if you have auto download turned on it is your own fault
20:21:37 <ehird> no
20:21:38 <AnMaster> go team sf.net!
20:21:39 <ehird> that's untrue
20:21:44 <AnMaster> Go team sf.net!
20:21:48 <ehird> it's the site's fault for downloading 100 pieces of useless crap
20:22:02 <ehird> just like it's the site's fault for having javascript that bounces the window around the screen
20:22:04 <AnMaster> ehird, err it only tries to download the one you selected for download
20:22:18 <ehird> AnMaster: i'm talking about this hypothetical: 20:21 <AnMaster> "go to this link" then what if it starts to auto download lots of crap
20:22:24 <ehird> you might want to upgrade to a memory longer than 4 seconds
20:22:38 <AnMaster> ehird, in fact I was jumping back more than 4 seconds
20:22:49 <AnMaster> back to the original topic
20:22:58 <ehird> yes, I know
20:22:59 <AnMaster> if you don't want auto download on sf.net, turn it off for that site then
20:23:02 <AnMaster> add an exception
20:23:11 <ehird> i can't. and I'd rather not use sf.net
20:23:14 <ehird> which I don't. unless I have to.
20:23:18 <AnMaster> ehird, then don't
20:23:30 <ehird> then how do you propose I download software hosted there.
20:23:33 <AnMaster> really I think this is a non-issue
20:23:44 <AnMaster> because I just click cancel when it asks me where to save
20:23:59 <AnMaster> if you auto download you asked for it
20:24:03 <AnMaster> don't complain then
20:24:06 <ehird> no, I didn't, you're an idiot
20:24:14 <ehird> "This site does something really fucking annoying. It's the user's fault!"
20:24:34 <AnMaster> ais523, what do you think?
20:24:49 <AnMaster> bbl, going to play freedroid
20:24:57 <ais523> I think that browsers auto-downloading is a configuration mistake
20:25:06 <AnMaster> ais523, :)
20:25:08 <ehird> I think it's convenient.
20:25:11 <ais523> if only because it renders people open to accidenrally clicking on links to massive things
20:25:33 <ehird> yeah, you know, I do have a cancel button
20:26:14 <AnMaster> ehird, let me get this straight:
20:26:19 <ehird> no, let's not
20:26:21 <ehird> I don't care
20:26:25 <AnMaster> 1) you think auto download is convenient
20:26:33 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:26:34 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:26:36 <AnMaster> 2) you think auto download at sf.net isn't convenient
20:26:56 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:26:56 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:26:58 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:27:00 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:27:02 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:27:04 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:27:06 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:27:08 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:27:10 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:27:12 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:27:14 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> no, let's not
20:27:16 <ehird> 20:26 <ehird> I don't care
20:27:31 <AnMaster> ais523 well as usual he is going mad when he notices he contradicted himself...
20:27:36 <ehird> no
20:27:43 <ehird> i just really don't give a shit about what you have to say on the subject
20:27:57 <GregorR> *hiss* *meowr*
20:28:11 <ais523> ehird never contradicts himself, his viewpoints are always perfectly consistent and he always finds a loophole to show that that's what he meant all along
20:28:36 <ehird> that's nice. back when you're actually discussing something ->
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20:36:30 <CakeProphet> ?help
20:36:32 <CakeProphet> @help
20:36:33 <CakeProphet> ,help
20:36:35 <CakeProphet> :help
20:36:37 <CakeProphet> ...
20:36:37 <AnMaster> ...
20:36:43 <CakeProphet> ;help
20:36:46 <CakeProphet> #help
20:36:54 <AnMaster> what the heck are you doing?
20:37:12 <CakeProphet> being lazy and finding bots in this channel that I can play with instead of checking the user list
20:40:39 <ais523> CakeProphet: it's just fungot here atm
20:40:39 <fungot> ais523: ' ' ' :image:voom fnord'" is being used under wikipedia:fair usefair use but there is
20:40:57 <ais523> although running thutubot would be easy enough locally, it used to run on eso-std.org until ehird wiped it
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20:53:39 <AnMaster> ais523, run it on eso-std again?
20:54:10 <ais523> eso-std is wiped atm
20:54:15 <AnMaster> ais523, not reinstalled?
20:54:29 <ais523> I don't even know if it has Perl installed
20:54:42 <ais523> there's less on there atm than there is in a default clean install...
20:55:00 <AnMaster> ais523, no aptitude, ehird told me that
21:11:43 <kerlo> I seem to remember ehird being less bitter.
21:22:00 <ais523> it's a recent thing, due to happenings in nomic AFAICT
21:25:25 * kerlo nods
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21:31:03 <AnMaster> ais523, well nomic isn't good for him
21:31:13 <AnMaster> he is a bad looser
21:47:46 <AnMaster> ais523, there?
21:47:52 <AnMaster> something very strange just happened
21:47:58 <ais523> yes, I'm here
21:48:07 <AnMaster> someone named xlq, asked on another network if I knew "ais523"
21:48:12 <AnMaster> heh
21:48:22 <ais523> AnMaster: oh, I know xlq on another network
21:48:24 <AnMaster> then he went on talking about same school or something *shrug*
21:48:30 <ais523> hmm... maybe I should ask him if he knows AnMaster
21:48:31 <AnMaster> ais523, irc.flightgear.org?
21:48:34 <ais523> no
21:48:37 <AnMaster> hm
21:48:38 <ais523> irc.tty2.org
21:48:42 <AnMaster> heh
21:48:59 <ais523> <xlq> ais523: do you know AnMaster?
21:49:07 <AnMaster> ais523, how did he find out I know you?
21:49:14 <ais523> no idea
21:49:15 <AnMaster> I would like to know
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21:51:09 <AnMaster> ais523, any response from him yet
21:51:11 <AnMaster> ?
21:51:19 <ais523> not yet
21:51:22 <AnMaster> hm
21:51:29 <ais523> some oblique references I don't get, he asked if I knew FlightGear and I said no
21:51:58 <AnMaster> ais523, well I know him from irc.flightgear.org
21:52:06 <AnMaster> I know what flightgear is
21:52:15 <AnMaster> a very good open source flight simulator
21:52:48 <ais523> [21:52] <xlq> No, it's just interesting
21:52:49 <ais523> [21:52] <xlq> when two seemingly unrelated people you know or half-know, turn out to know each other
21:57:29 * ais523 only just now figures out that kerlo = ihope
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22:37:25 <AnMaster> ais523: ihope use lots of different nicks
22:37:30 <ais523> yes, I nkow
22:37:40 <ais523> I should /whois people I don't recognise more often
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03:01:16 <CakeProphet> bf interpreter: http://hpaste.org/13554
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03:31:03 <GregorR> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30234793&l=8428a&id=1055580469
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04:11:31 <psygnisfive> hey does everyone have facebook??
04:11:41 <psygnisfive> we should have an #esoteric facebook group
04:12:04 <Slereah> How about no
04:12:14 <psygnisfive> GregorR add me as a friend :D
04:12:40 <Slereah> On Facebook or Fetlife?
04:12:49 <psygnisfive> facebook
04:12:56 <psygnisfive> and fetlife if hes on fetlife
04:12:56 <Slereah> Lame.
04:20:08 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: you have some debris on your glasses
04:23:09 <GregorR> psygnisfive: Oh, that's who that is :P
04:23:19 <GregorR> psygnisfive: I got a friend request and was about to send a message "Uh, do I know you?"
04:24:00 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Is the debris shaped like a large piece of plastic, glass and metal?
04:24:29 <bsmntbombdood> plastic,glass, and metal have no shape
04:24:54 <Asztal> there's already a http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?ref=sb#/group.php?gid=2410064537
04:24:57 <GregorR> But pieces do :P
04:25:34 <Asztal> uh, two '?' in a URL? is that even a valid URI?
04:30:02 <bsmntbombdood> yes
04:31:26 <Asztal> yeah, I just checked... I thought URI fragments were far more restricted :(
04:38:31 <bsmntbombdood> the ?'s are interpreted by the server
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05:42:03 <kerlo> GregorR is on Facebook?
05:42:47 <kerlo> Hey, I do recognize that face.
06:00:33 <GregorR> I don't recognize that nick ...
06:00:55 <GregorR> Oh, /whois told me :P
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06:13:53 <bsmntbombdood> USE ONE NICK PLOX
06:32:53 <Vendan> Whee! SNUSP interpreter, made in Second Life
06:32:55 <Vendan> http://files.vendaria.net/snusp_sl_001.png
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09:00:18 <oklodol> anything interesting happen while i was gone?
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09:00:44 <oklorol> thought so.
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13:13:53 <Mony> yello
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15:23:57 <psygnisfive> yello!
15:24:10 <oerjan> gree!
15:24:21 <psygnisfive> oooooh yeah
15:24:25 <psygnisfive> ooooooooooh yeaaaaaaaah
15:24:30 <psygnisfive> oooooooh yeaaah
15:24:32 <psygnisfive> the moooooon
15:24:39 <psygnisfive> beautiful
15:24:40 <psygnisfive> the suunn!
15:24:44 <psygnisfive> even more beautiful!
15:24:46 <psygnisfive> heh heh
15:24:48 <psygnisfive> oooooh yeeeaah
15:24:52 <psygnisfive> ooooooooooh yeeeeeaaah
15:24:56 <psygnisfive> ooooh yeaaaaaah
15:25:15 <Slereah> Oh shi-
15:25:23 <Slereah> The Kool Aid man is here D:
15:25:30 <psygnisfive> nothe yello man
15:25:42 <psygnisfive> apparently they dont have Yello in france
15:26:03 <psygnisfive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcMHAM0cUbY
15:26:11 <Slereah> Did you look desperatly for it while in Fronce?
15:26:23 <Slereah> O est the yello!
15:27:19 <oerjan> they probably have it but l'Academie Francaise has demanded they call it something french
15:27:29 <psygnisfive> yeah
15:27:42 <psygnisfive> they were like
15:27:59 <psygnisfive> "we do not have ze yellow here.... eeeeeh zey are sweess!"
15:28:11 <Slereah> swees?
15:28:16 <psygnisfive> sweess!
15:28:22 <psygnisfive> from sweetzerland!
15:28:29 <Slereah> Are they?
15:28:36 <psygnisfive> Yello is, yes
15:28:56 * oerjan realizes yello is not a soft drink
15:29:13 <psygnisfive> oerjan, did you watch that video i just linked to?
15:29:33 <psygnisfive> also, the soft drink is mello yello
15:29:39 <oerjan> no
15:29:44 <psygnisfive> watch it
15:29:49 <psygnisfive> it explains absolutely nothing
15:30:26 <Slereah> Although it does make me thirsty for a good old Duff.
15:31:31 <psygnisfive> the video will basically just confuse the fuck out of you
15:31:59 <Slereah> http://img.lulz.net:8080/src/1229358859089.jpg
15:32:01 <Slereah> SCIENCE!
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15:33:30 <psygnisfive> those are t-shirt designs you know
15:33:50 <Slereah> I know.
15:33:57 <psygnisfive> i forget where from
15:34:02 <psygnisfive> possible design by hümans
15:34:56 <psygnisfive> but probably not
15:36:12 <psygnisfive> maybe zorg?
15:36:29 <psygnisfive> or whatever theyre called
15:36:35 <psygnisfive> snorg?
15:36:38 <psygnisfive> thats it
15:36:46 <psygnisfive> lets see, is it snorg
15:37:02 <psygnisfive> ehh no
15:37:31 <oerjan> a veritable snorgasbord
15:37:41 <psygnisfive> veritably!
15:37:46 <psygnisfive> oh my god
15:37:50 <psygnisfive> i just had an idea
15:38:06 <psygnisfive> that unifies old timey with esoteric programming
15:38:20 <psygnisfive> WE SHOULD BUILD AN ANALYTICAL ENGINE!!!
15:38:29 <Slereah> It already exists, psygnisfive.
15:38:34 <psygnisfive> shut up slereah
15:38:37 <Slereah> :D
15:38:54 <psygnisfive> we can build an analytical engine and then dress up in old timey outfits!
15:39:02 <psygnisfive> steam punk esoteric programming
15:39:16 <Slereah> Do we need goggles?
15:39:19 <psygnisfive> I'll be countess lovelace
15:39:22 <psygnisfive> eh.. Yes!
15:39:24 <psygnisfive> and monocles!
15:39:25 <oerjan> yeah but where do we get the steam-powered death rays?
15:39:28 <psygnisfive> one for each eye!
15:39:38 <psygnisfive> one thing at a time, oerjan
15:39:44 <psygnisfive> first we build out analytical engine
15:40:34 <kerlo> I prefer to call her Lady Ada.
15:40:40 <psygnisfive> then use it to calculate the plans for a deadly corpuscular wave projector!
15:40:54 <kerlo> Lada Ada the Lovelace Lady.
15:40:57 <kerlo> s/a/y/
15:40:59 <psygnisfive> ok fine, i'll be lady ada :|
15:41:31 <psygnisfive> what
15:41:32 <kerlo> Or the Countess of Lovelace if you so prefer.
15:41:35 <oerjan> also, afaik the analytical engine has _not_ been built.
15:41:50 <Slereah> oerjan : There's a program simulation
15:41:57 <psygnisfive> Lady Ada Countess Lovelace is how her name would've been said
15:42:16 <psygnisfive> i believe. british titles are weird in how they're used
15:42:32 <psygnisfive> they're preposed before the last name when reading someones full name
15:43:14 <psygnisfive> so its like Lord John Robert Duke Norwich
15:43:35 <psygnisfive> you're right, it hasn't been build oerjan
15:43:39 <psygnisfive> or so we think
15:44:13 <psygnisfive> how do we know the government hasnt constructed dozens of these calculating machines and used them to tabulate thousands of units of data about the citizenry?!
15:44:31 <Slereah> They have, psygnisfive
15:44:38 <Slereah> But they used regular calculating machines
15:44:45 <Slereah> It's way cheaper
15:44:54 <psygnisfive> DO NOT FRIGHTEN ME, SIR!
15:45:09 * psygnisfive hits slereah with his umbrella
15:45:25 <Slereah> Well old chap.
15:45:34 <Slereah> What would you say about a jolly old round of rogering?
15:45:34 <psygnisfive> CHEERIO MUSTACHE
15:45:51 <psygnisfive> oh splendid idea my good fellow, splendid idea!
15:46:26 <psygnisfive> god i love steam punk XD
15:46:46 <kerlo> I have the honour to remain, Madam, Your Majesty's most humble and obedient servant!
15:46:49 <kerlo> Wait, what?
15:47:34 <psygnisfive> http://community.livejournal.com/steamfashion/374499.html
15:47:46 <psygnisfive> that guy with the cyberpunk hair? i want his outfit
15:47:48 <oerjan> kerlo: Watt. specifically, his steam engine.
15:48:05 <psygnisfive> watt is a late comer
15:48:30 <oerjan> well you don't want to come too early
15:48:38 <psygnisfive> alexander had hes little steam striven ball, be it a toy, and the venicians were using steam turbines for centuries before watt
15:48:56 * oerjan sometimes doesn't believe himself
15:49:14 <psygnisfive> do you see his wonderful outfit?!
15:49:21 * Slereah pinches oerjan
15:53:03 <oerjan> that's what i thought i was just dreaming
15:53:06 <oerjan> *,
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16:59:22 <ehird> Who wants to join my 'never check the return result of malloc()' club?
17:00:27 <ais523> ehird: they aren't here, their clients crashed
17:00:45 <ehird> ais523: Their IRC clients use all their fucking memory?
17:00:47 <ehird> They have bigger problems.
17:01:06 <ehird> Also, I assume YOUR irc client gracefully recovers from out of memory, ey?
17:01:18 <ehird> (Exiting is not a recovery.)
17:01:25 <ehird> (Exiting in that case = crashing.)
17:01:40 <ais523> actually, it depends on the OS
17:01:52 <ais523> checking malloc's return value is pointless on Linux nowadays unless you're doing very big allocs
17:02:03 <ais523> because it's more likely to return a false value or kill your process than it is to return null
17:02:36 <ehird> as far as I'm concerned, if there isn't enough memory to run my program, then that's the rest of the system's problem
17:03:59 <ais523> some programs can recover sanely on out-of-memory
17:04:11 <ehird> ais523: yes, about 3 of them.
17:04:13 <ais523> by not doing whatever was using the memory
17:04:16 <ehird> most of the time, it's not worth the trouble
17:04:21 <ais523> ehird: Perl is one, if you compile it with special flags
17:04:32 <ehird> ais523: it shouldn't, though
17:04:49 <ehird> sure, you CAN go into StrippedDownMode, but if the computer has no memory left, I doubt using your program will be possible anyway.
17:04:53 <ehird> or easy
17:06:22 <ais523> ehird: just think about what's using the memory, and don't
17:06:30 <ais523> for instance, say you're trying to open a file and it doesn't fit in memory
17:06:42 <ais523> it would be graceful to just not open that file and let people continue editing the other files they have open
17:06:52 <ehird> ais523: yes, that is one of the rare cases
17:06:53 <ais523> or at least give them a chance to save them
17:07:03 <ehird> I'm talking in general, here
17:07:09 <ehird> the regular memory that your program uses for stuff
17:07:24 <ehird> don't even bother wrapping it, it doesn't even buy you anything, it's such an edge case
17:40:35 <ehird> hm.
17:40:55 <oerjan> yes, hindley-milner is a good idea. if you can pull it off.
17:41:57 <ehird> lawlz.
17:42:06 <ehird> grrrrrrrrrrr the next person that calls a language unreadable
17:42:08 <ehird> will eat my fucking toes
17:44:04 <Slereah> Unreadable
17:45:34 * ehird kills Slereah
17:46:24 <Slereah> :D
17:46:53 * oerjan doesn't find Unreadable on the wiki
17:47:18 <ehird> lawl
17:47:28 <oerjan> of course it would take something to beat the competition
17:48:21 <ais523> whitespace-encoded Unlambda would take quite some reading
17:48:28 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("lol").
17:48:46 <oerjan> aye
17:50:34 <Slereah> Well, whitespace is already unreadable.
17:50:47 <ehird> I decree that foobar.
17:51:03 <Asztal> you just need good syntax colouring.
17:52:03 <oerjan> O_O
17:52:20 <ais523> there are editors to syntax-colour Whitespace
17:52:27 <ais523> but even with syntax colouring, Whitespace is hard to read
17:58:42 <psygnisfive> whitespace can surely be trivially ciphered into something more readable
18:00:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
18:04:49 <oklorol> well isn't it just a stack thingie
18:04:58 <ehird> yeah
18:05:12 <psygnisfive> oklorol!?
18:05:14 <psygnisfive> with an r?!
18:05:22 <ais523> and why not?
18:05:30 <psygnisfive> it doesnt feel right D:
18:05:42 <ais523> the ok and the use of several os have been pretty much the only stable part of oklorol's nick
18:05:45 <oklorol> indeed it doesn't.
18:05:54 <ais523> although I still think of them as oklopol, probably because that's the most common one
18:06:13 <psygnisfive> did you know the piraha change names every few months?
18:06:14 <oklorol> well i agree with psygnisfive, "rol" just doesn't work that well.
18:06:27 <oklorol> the fist?
18:06:28 <oklorol> *fish
18:06:36 <psygnisfive> no no
18:06:41 <psygnisfive> thats piranha
18:06:50 <oklorol> yes, but could've been a typo.
18:06:50 <psygnisfive> the pirahã are a tribe in the amazon
18:07:03 <oklorol> that i did *not* know.
18:07:06 <psygnisfive> i dont maek typos
18:07:24 <oklorol> i know you don't. it was a pretty surreal joke.
18:07:34 <psygnisfive> its true tho
18:07:42 <psygnisfive> they change names every few months
18:07:47 <oklorol> ...
18:07:47 <oklorol> i mean mine
18:07:53 <oklorol> i know you're not joking
18:07:56 <psygnisfive> and not necessarily like.. "I am now Bob!"
18:07:58 <psygnisfive> more like
18:08:06 <psygnisfive> "You dont feel like a Jack any more.. you're more of a Bob."
18:08:47 <oklorol> DO THEIR SOULS CHANGE TOO?
18:09:17 <psygnisfive> they dont have souls
18:09:51 <oklorol> are they trying to make up for that with all the names?
18:10:04 <psygnisfive> yes
18:10:07 <oklorol> ah.
18:10:11 <oklorol> makes sense
18:10:16 -!- oklorol has changed nick to oklosol.
18:10:40 <psygnisfive> still not right but better
18:10:46 <oklosol> yes
18:12:07 <oklosol> i should probably do something soon
18:12:16 <oklosol> been awake for 12 hours, done nothing yet :-)
18:15:13 <psygnisfive> im probably going to go to bed for another hour or two
18:15:28 <oklosol> hf
18:16:18 <psygnisfive> oklokok and oklohol. its what you use to oklofok
18:16:19 <psygnisfive> :o
18:16:31 <oklosol> :D
18:17:16 <oklosol> oklohol sounds more like an alcoholic beverage to me.
18:18:35 <psygnisfive> mm
18:18:41 <psygnisfive> i'd drink it ;O
18:18:57 <oklosol> i'm sure you would :)
18:19:02 <Slereah> Olkohol
18:19:05 <ehird> get a channel
18:23:17 <oklosol> hmm. actually i think i'll just sleep a mo
18:23:19 <oklosol> well.
18:23:20 <oklosol> till morning
18:23:21 <oklosol> ->
18:28:08 <kerlo> oklosol is a solution.
18:28:22 <kerlo> Wait, no, it isn't.
18:28:36 <kerlo> It's a suspension of fine solid particles or liquid droplets in oklopol.
18:30:29 <Slereah> Semen.
18:32:56 -!- psygnisf_ has joined.
18:33:04 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:33:25 <psygnisf_> oklosol is okloscented
18:33:38 <psygnisf_> cleans your windows wonderfully!
18:33:42 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive.
18:35:35 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:35:44 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
18:52:12 <Mony> bye
18:52:15 -!- Mony has quit ("Quit").
18:52:37 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:52:42 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:07:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
19:09:54 -!- puzzlet has joined.
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19:21:57 -!- LinuS has joined.
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19:49:38 -!- kar8nga has joined.
21:46:31 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. S, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi.").
21:55:11 <ais523> ehird: I'm reading through the happy-hour PAM and other useful programs thing you linked earlier
21:55:18 <ais523> I especially like the block-device version of /dev/null
21:55:25 <ehird> cdrewind is brilliance
21:55:33 <ehird> http://www.brendangregg.com/Specials/cdrewind
21:55:36 <ais523> in theory, you could use that to test mke2fs or similar programs which work best on block devices
21:55:40 <ais523> and yes, I like it too
21:55:57 <ais523> hmm... mightn't it cause the CD to always be the right way up when you take it out of the drive?
21:56:06 <ais523> it's annoying to take out a CD and see it has an upside-down logo
21:56:09 <ehird> ha
21:56:15 <ais523> it's like the thing rotates inside the drive
21:56:31 <ehird> my cd blunder is putting it in wrong side up
21:56:46 <ehird> this imac could do with a little form over function in that area, there's no eject button...
21:56:59 <ehird> i got it ejected once from the os, I don't recall how
21:57:07 <ais523> /dev/notrandom is kind-of fun
21:57:18 <ais523> also, I have 5 ways to eject on here
21:57:19 <ehird> i like how it consists of infinite bleeps
21:57:23 <ehird> to simulate catting /dev/random
21:58:03 <ehird> does it delay every few seconds like random?
21:58:03 <ehird> it should
21:58:04 <ais523> eject button, Fn-F10, eject from command-line, eject icon on Nautilus that's utterly ripped off from Mac OS X, right-click and choose eject
21:58:17 <ais523> (that's one of Mac OS X's better ideas, though, I'm glad Ubuntu shamelessly stole it)
21:58:44 <ehird> i'm pretty sure every gui environment since the macintosh has stolen from it :P
21:58:46 <ehird> except maybe plan 9.
21:59:05 <ais523> oh, yes
21:59:12 <ais523> but this was a newish idea they stole, not an old one
21:59:15 <ais523> also, what about Smalltalk?
21:59:26 <ehird> well, I was about to say the macintosh stole wholesale from xerox parc.
21:59:54 <ais523> also, wow at ged.jar
21:59:59 <ehird> and they did both the Alto and Smalltalk
22:00:03 <ehird> at similra times
22:00:09 <ais523> I think it's a bad idea for much the same reason as gvim, by the way
22:00:15 <ehird> Much later, in the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit in which Apple accused Microsoft of violating its copyright by appropriating the use of the "look and feel" of the Macintosh GUI, Xerox also sued Apple on the same grounds.
22:00:20 <ehird> ^ brilliant
22:00:20 <ais523> I like vi, but think gvim is kind-of missing the point
22:00:29 <ais523> and yes, that is brilliant
22:01:18 <ehird> ais523: the sam editor for plan9 is basically multi-document ed
22:01:20 <ehird> it has a top command pane
22:01:23 <ehird> and little file windows
22:01:42 <ehird> the file windows are just for seeing what you're doing :P
22:01:51 <ehird> iirc, ken thompson uses it as his main editor
22:02:05 <ehird> before that?
22:02:05 <ehird> ed.
22:02:53 <ais523> I've edited with sed before now
22:03:02 <ais523> ed is similar but more interactive-friendly
22:03:50 -!- bloreg has joined.
22:04:14 -!- Ilke has joined.
22:04:16 <Ilke> hi
22:04:18 <Ilke> anyone awake
22:04:21 <ehird> hi
22:04:21 <ehird> yes
22:04:49 -!- Ilke has left (?).
22:04:54 <ais523> yes, I'm awake
22:04:54 <ais523> just about
22:07:28 <ehird> ...
22:07:35 <ehird> what a sad fucker :)
22:07:43 -!- jkele has joined.
22:07:49 <ehird> jkele: hi, ilke.
22:07:54 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:08:00 -!- jkele has set topic: ehird sad is your momMOTHERFUCKER!!! GET A REAL LANGUAGE! GET LAID! GET OFF THIS CHANNEL DIPSHIT.
22:08:03 -!- jkele has left (?).
22:08:04 <ehird> wow
22:08:05 <ehird> a troll
22:08:08 <ais523> yep
22:08:10 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:08:13 <ehird> hahaha, what a fucking retard
22:08:15 <Slereah> :D
22:08:18 <ais523> also, yay for a client that stores topic history
22:08:18 <Slereah> I'm disappointed.
22:08:37 <Slereah> jkele No such nick/channel
22:08:43 <Slereah> Coward!
22:08:45 <ais523> well, we have the whois data
22:08:48 <ehird> woah, wait, "ehird sad is your mom"?
22:08:49 <ehird> LOL
22:08:50 <ais523> and jkele = Ilke, pretty obviously
22:08:57 <ais523> given the identical whois
22:08:59 <ais523> and name similarity
22:09:01 <ais523> and behaviour similarity
22:09:07 <Slereah> Who's Ilke?
22:09:13 <ehird> the previous troll.
22:09:16 <ehird> who came in 3 seconds before him.
22:09:18 <ais523> cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com
22:09:21 <ehird> and did the same thing.
22:09:32 <ais523> may as well preserve the whois for the logs, in case anyone decides to google it or whatever
22:09:36 <ehird> now the question -
22:09:37 <Slereah> Yes, but I was mostly looking for where he hangs out
22:09:44 <ehird> where did he come from, why did he do that, and who is he?
22:10:02 <ehird> i really can't think why you'd do that, i mean, it's just a stupid little channel that nobody really cares about
22:10:04 <ais523> it's someone who at least knows a bit about what the channel's for
22:10:08 <ais523> given what he put in the topic
22:10:22 <Slereah> His mom was raped by Brainfuck
22:10:26 -!- klslss has joined.
22:10:31 <ehird> klslss: not you again
22:10:32 <ehird> so tell us
22:10:34 <ehird> who are you
22:10:36 <ehird> where're you from
22:10:40 -!- klslss has set topic: EHIRD WILL SUCK MY BALLS AND HIS MOM's! Slereah will do the same because he's a opwhore! REST OF YOU FUCKWITS GET A REAL LANGUAGE, LEARN A REAL LANGUAGE AND STOP BEING WUSSIES FROM START TREK!.
22:10:41 <ehird> and why are you targeting this tiny place.
22:10:42 -!- klslss has left (?).
22:10:47 <ehird> ahahahahahahahah
22:10:57 <Slereah> He is on no other channel.
22:11:03 <ehird> ahahahahahgahahahahahahaha
22:11:03 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:11:10 <Slereah> A sockpuppet just to troll our little place?
22:11:12 <ehird> how old are you, log-reading troll?
22:11:15 <Slereah> I feel honored.
22:11:16 <ehird> 7?
22:11:18 <ehird> can't be much more
22:11:56 <Slereah> Well, here's one for our log reading troll then.
22:11:57 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Argh/1221655091974.jpg
22:12:05 <ais523> Slereah: what's that a link to?
22:12:14 <ehird> ais523: don't click.
22:12:16 <ais523> I'm obviously not planning to click on it given content
22:12:17 <Slereah> ais523 : Something you'd better not click
22:12:32 <ais523> oerjan: don't click on the above link
22:12:38 <ais523> I know you aren't here, but IIRC you logread
22:12:47 <ehird> EVERYONE: don't click on the above link.
22:12:58 <ais523> Slereah: just don't paste that sort of link in
22:13:03 <ehird> wait
22:13:06 <ehird> I subtract the troll from EVERYONE
22:13:47 * ais523 wonders if the troll actually deduced the logs from the topic
22:13:52 <ais523> by running the resulting program
22:14:32 -!- klslvoeoe has joined.
22:14:38 -!- klslvoeoe has set topic: you can subtract your mom from my dick because she's old and you're a stupid fuckface! now LEARN C or say perl! stop being esoteric asswads.
22:14:39 -!- klslvoeoe has left (?).
22:15:00 <ehird> How can someone know what C and Perl is and be so absolutely fucking braindead?
22:15:08 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:15:20 <ehird> i wonder why he thinks we even care.
22:15:22 <ais523> do we have any live ops?
22:15:28 <ehird> nah.
22:15:33 <ehird> he'll give up eventually.
22:15:42 <ehird> unless he's I_RULE in disguise.
22:15:54 <ehird> which is...very possible
22:16:00 <ais523> well, telling freenode might help stop them trolling other channels that care more
22:16:09 <Slereah> Maybe he comes from /prog/ :o
22:16:10 <ehird> freenode don't do that kind of thing.
22:16:32 <ehird> I_RULE claimed to have been "harrassed and threatened" by me over /msg in #freenode, they just told him to ignore me.
22:16:36 <ehird> (Of course, the whole thing was made up.)
22:16:36 <ais523> what, kill trolls?
22:16:47 <ehird> for specific channels, they tell you to take it up with that channel's op
22:17:02 <Slereah> Who's that channel's op?
22:17:10 <ehird> alive: lament, fizzie.
22:17:15 <Slereah> bsmnt_bot, destroy him!
22:17:15 <ehird> active: fizzie.
22:17:19 <ehird> ha
22:17:25 <ehird> ~exec sys.stdout('pew pew pew')
22:17:26 <bsmnt_bot> pew pew pew
22:17:32 <Slereah> :D
22:17:39 <Slereah> ehird
22:17:41 <Slereah> I <3 u
22:17:48 -!- JSKSKSLVE has joined.
22:17:50 <Slereah> o u
22:17:51 -!- JSKSKSLVE has set topic: NO LIVE OPS!!! get with the program! C or perl!.
22:17:52 -!- JSKSKSLVE has left (?).
22:18:01 -!- Slereah has set topic: NO LIVE OPS!!! get with the program! Python!.
22:18:05 <ehird> Hey, he stopped insulting our mothers.
22:18:06 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:18:28 -!- ehird has set topic: NO DEAD OPS!!! get out of the program! Brainfuck! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:18:32 <Slereah> I'm shocked that this man would claim that C is a real language.
22:18:49 <ais523> C and Perl are pretty different in philosophy...
22:18:55 <ehird> with c you can be a real man.
22:18:57 <ais523> and both are arguably esoteric
22:19:02 <ehird> and allocate memory with your huge manly manliness.
22:19:02 -!- jkvkasas has joined.
22:19:05 <ais523> although not as esoteric as most of the stuff we discuss here
22:19:05 <ehird> wb
22:19:06 -!- jkvkasas has set topic: BRAINFUCK IS NOT WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS OR USES! you fucking cunts, learn a real language!.
22:19:07 -!- jkvkasas has left (?).
22:19:08 <ehird> how are you today
22:19:15 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:19:18 <ehird> does he realise we just do this for fun?
22:19:28 <ehird> "BRAINFUCK IS NOT WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS OR USES! " -- sounds like an enterprise idiot
22:19:42 * ehird waits for his delayed topic-response.
22:20:02 <ais523> ehird: can you easily bring back optbot?
22:20:07 <ais523> 'twould seem to be the perfect response
22:20:21 -!- jvkdkdke has joined.
22:20:28 -!- jvkdkdke has left (?).
22:20:29 -!- optbot has joined.
22:20:29 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule..
22:20:30 <Slereah> He can be programmed to hunt him down with his laser.
22:20:30 <ais523> besides, nobody's forcing anyone to use BF
22:20:48 <ehird> we're not doing this for a paycheck, you retard.
22:20:56 <ais523> ehird: two log links? optbot cares about them even more than I and oklosol do
22:20:56 <optbot> ais523: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule.
22:21:03 <ehird> oh dear.
22:21:08 <ais523> oh, you've only given it one line of input
22:21:10 <ais523> optbot?
22:21:10 <optbot> ais523: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Rule: You must violate this rule.
22:21:15 <ehird> are you so insecure that you can't deal with a bunch of people - many of whom, in fact, I believe have been "laid" - messing around with computation?
22:21:16 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:21:19 <ehird> The answer, is yes.
22:21:47 -!- optbot has joined.
22:21:47 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I doubt it's like that.
22:21:52 <ehird> I think it is, optbot.
22:21:53 <optbot> ehird: sounds pimpcash
22:21:58 <ehird> Yes. Very pimpcash, optbot.
22:21:58 <optbot> ehird: really isn't? damn :\
22:22:01 <ehird> optbot: no, is.
22:22:01 <optbot> ehird: yes
22:22:03 <ehird> optbot: yes
22:22:04 <optbot> ehird: just as long as it doesn't involve smurfs. FOR MERCY'S SAKE, NO SMURFS
22:22:06 -!- KVDLWW has joined.
22:22:08 <ehird> optbot: okay, okay, no smurfs.
22:22:09 <optbot> ehird: d(4/b(4))-4/4 = 80
22:22:09 -!- KVDLWW has set topic: THEN WHAT DO YOU CARE ABOUT? USE A REAL LANGUAGE! SERIOUSLYT! AND IF YOU'RE USING BRAINFUCK AS A HOBBYIST, YOU CAN START OFF BY GETTING a different hobby like maybe going out and getting laid like NORMAL PEOPLE?!.
22:22:11 <ehird> optbot: say hi to KVDLWW
22:22:11 <optbot> ehird: How's that :P
22:22:12 -!- KVDLWW has left (?).
22:22:13 <ais523> optobt!
22:22:15 <ais523> optbot!
22:22:15 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | no.
22:22:25 <Slereah> I got laid yesterday :D
22:22:33 <ais523> troll: how do you think we implement BF, if not in real languages/
22:22:38 <ehird> wait wait wait.
22:23:03 <ehird> Dear anonymous coward troll: Why don't you go get laid like NORMAL PEOPLE, instead of trolling an IRC channel?
22:23:03 <ais523> well, in reality we implement it in esolangs
22:23:03 <ais523> but that's because we're us
22:23:05 <ehird> After all, the two are obviously mutually incompatible.
22:23:08 <ehird> Just as with esolangs, right?
22:23:32 <Slereah> Guys.
22:23:35 <Slereah> Stop caring.
22:23:39 <ehird> This is fun.
22:23:40 <Slereah> Like, actually not caring.
22:23:46 <ehird> Because he's an idiot.
22:24:39 * ais523 deplores the current decline in the quality of internet trolling
22:24:46 <ais523> trolls used to actually be good back decades ago
22:24:51 <ehird> quite
22:24:52 <ais523> and not be recognised as trolls for weeks
22:24:54 <Slereah> Yeah, where are the 50 Hitlers?
22:24:59 <ehird> Heck, I'd prefer the GNAA or 4chan to this moron.
22:25:10 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Epic_Fail_Guy.
22:25:11 <ais523> then, when the conversation got interesting and bizzare, you got the YHBT. YHL. HAND.
22:25:13 <Epic_Fail_Guy> Someone rang?
22:25:15 <ais523> and that was that
22:25:21 <Epic_Fail_Guy> NickServ- This nickname is registered.
22:25:23 <Epic_Fail_Guy> Oh shi-
22:25:37 <ehird> Epic_Fail_Guy: no, you have to start 100 clones and spam the channel with "FUCK"
22:25:39 -!- Epic_Fail_Guy has changed nick to Slereah.
22:25:43 <ehird> get it right
22:25:53 <Slereah> ehird : I used to have a program like that
22:25:59 <Slereah> I think it's on Partyvan.
22:26:00 <ais523> Slereah: what's the point?
22:26:06 <ehird> ais523: trolling.
22:26:08 <ehird> is the point.
22:26:09 <Slereah> :D
22:26:10 <ais523> all IRC networks ban clonebots nowadays anyway
22:26:25 <ehird> ais523: I've ran clonebots in #esoteric-blah for an okoplay.
22:26:33 <ehird> they spammed fast and weren't banned
22:26:37 <ais523> that was only 2 of them, not hundreds
22:26:41 <ehird> no
22:26:43 <ehird> i had another variation
22:26:45 <ehird> with like 30
22:26:56 <ais523> hmm... there should be a mode on channels meaning "this channel allows clonebots and spamming"
22:27:08 <ehird> ha
22:27:09 <ais523> hmm... maybe a +trolling/-trolling mode too
22:27:21 <ais523> not entirely sure what would happen if a troll came in and it was turned off
22:27:29 <ehird> It ought to be noted that despite the pseudo-mathematical styling of this formulation, it is mathematically equivalent to saying "Sometimes people make comparisons involving Nazis or Hitler," and thus means pretty much nothing.
22:27:34 <ehird> -- Encyclopedia Dramatica on Godwin's Law
22:27:55 <ais523> ehird: it actually means "the longer a thread gets, the more likely it is that someone will make a Godwin comparison"
22:27:55 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
22:28:01 <ais523> but that comes to much the same thing
22:28:12 -!- kskskssldlld has joined.
22:28:16 -!- kskskssldlld has set topic: /quit fuckers.
22:28:18 -!- kskskssldlld has left (?).
22:28:19 <ais523> there are some bizzare potential counterexamples, say the law would be false if the first message in a thread had a 50% chance of mentioning hitler
22:28:21 <ais523> but none of the others did
22:28:27 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:28:42 <ehird> gee troll you sure are making our lives hard
22:28:43 <ehird> not
22:28:48 <ais523> kskskssldlld: you're doing it wrong, if you want to quit someone else from IRC you type /quit name into your client, not into the topic
22:28:52 <ais523> besides, fuckers isn't in here atm anyway
22:29:09 <ehird> i like the part where he's getting more and more lazy
22:29:14 <ehird> right now I long for the days of me sucking balls.
22:29:39 <ais523> ehird: that sounds wrong
22:29:47 <ehird> intentional
22:30:34 -!- alexholowczak has joined.
22:30:42 <Slereah> Weird
22:30:45 <ehird> alexholowczak: hi, are you the troll?
22:30:46 <alexholowczak> No
22:30:48 <ais523> no, he isn't
22:30:49 <ehird> hooray.
22:30:51 <alexholowczak> I was told of a troll.
22:30:51 <Slereah> The spamming program is not on Partyvan.
22:30:54 <ais523> he knows me from another channel
22:30:57 <ehird> ah.
22:30:57 <alexholowczak> So I thought I'd poke my nose in. :-P
22:31:00 <ais523> he's never seen a troll, so he came to watch
22:31:00 <Slereah> Maybe it was on Patriotic Nigra.
22:31:11 <ehird> alexholowczak: be braced for topic profanity.
22:31:16 <ehird> he'll be back in a minute...
22:31:20 <alexholowczak> (22:30:38) ehird: alexholowczak: hi, are you the troll? <- What would you have done if I said "yes"? :-P
22:31:30 <alexholowczak> Or... would you expect him to say "yes"? :-P
22:31:37 <ehird> alexholowczak: commended you for having actually said something in the channel :P
22:31:40 -!- Judofyr has joined.
22:31:46 <ais523> and Judofyr isn't the troll either
22:31:52 <ehird> or... maybe he is!
22:31:56 <ais523> wrong continent
22:31:57 * ehird dramatic music
22:32:01 <ehird> ais523: proxies!
22:32:02 <alexholowczak> ehird: Yes, I know that IRC has a reputation for not having anything happen... ever.
22:32:04 <ais523> either that, or being very clever with proxies
22:32:23 <Judofyr> gah. Colloquy won't let me see what you write!
22:32:24 <ehird> alexholowczak: this troll delivers messages by coming in with a dsfkjsdfkj-style nick, setting the channel, and parting again
22:32:25 <Judofyr> :-(
22:32:34 <alexholowczak> ehird: I see.
22:32:39 <ehird> see: the logs :P
22:32:39 <ais523> Judofyr: why not?
22:32:52 <Judofyr> it's just blank :P
22:32:54 <Judofyr> probably a bug
22:33:00 <Judofyr> or
22:33:05 <Judofyr> it _is_ a bug
22:33:05 <ais523> well, you can see what we're saying now
22:33:07 <ais523> presumably
22:33:37 <Judofyr> presumably, you say? :P
22:33:53 <Judofyr> I can read the raw IRC-stream, though
22:34:00 <alexholowczak> Just as I join... and the troll doesn't return.
22:34:01 <ais523> ah, ok
22:34:03 <ais523> is it a known bug
22:34:07 <ehird> alexholowczak: he'll be back
22:34:11 <alexholowczak> Ah right.
22:34:12 <ehird> he was away for quite a bit last time
22:34:14 <ais523> alexholowczak: trolls aren't used to people reacting intelligently, we must have confused them
22:34:19 <alexholowczak> lol
22:34:40 <ehird> heh
22:34:40 <ehird> quick, ais523, talk about computation
22:34:40 <Judofyr> ais523: dunno
22:34:40 <Judofyr> good IRC client for mac, anyone?
22:34:53 <ehird> limecaht!!!!!!
22:34:55 <ais523> Judofyr: ehird should know one, he used one for ages
22:34:59 <ehird> http://limechat.net/mac/
22:34:59 <ais523> and probably still does
22:35:02 <alexholowczak> Somebody poke me if the troll returns... Indeed it may not be your priority... But it'd be appreciated. :-P
22:35:11 -!- VKDKAKKE has joined.
22:35:15 <ehird> alexholowczak: he's back
22:35:15 <Slereah> Hey buddy
22:35:18 -!- VKDKAKKE has left (?).
22:35:18 <alexholowczak> Yeah
22:35:19 <alexholowczak> I saw.
22:35:21 <alexholowczak> lol
22:35:25 <ehird> this is exciting
22:35:28 <alexholowczak> My client went grey when he appeared.
22:35:30 <ehird> like... retarded fireworks!
22:35:40 -!- ais523 has set topic: Logs are here: `wget http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.12.29 -O - 2> /dev/null | grep 'logs >>>' | sed 's/.*logs >>> \(.*\) <<<.*/\1/'`.
22:35:45 <alexholowczak> This is intelligent spamming though.
22:35:50 <alexholowczak> He's insulting a programming language.
22:35:56 <ais523> which one, though?
22:35:58 <ehird> for some values of intelligent
22:36:03 <alexholowczak> This isn't YouTube commenting type spamming.
22:36:06 <ais523> he insulted BF earlier, but not on any particularly insightful grounds
22:36:24 <ehird> alexholowczak: it's worse because he's shown a cursory knowledge of the existence of C, Perl and brainfuck
22:36:25 <ais523> he's just jealous of a channel where you can do this:
22:36:30 <Slereah> Hey, guy, what do you think of Lazy K?
22:36:31 <ais523> ^bf ,[.,]!Look at this!
22:36:31 <fungot> Look at this!
22:36:38 <ais523> you can't easily do that with C
22:36:42 <alexholowczak> Yes, but by doing it by insulting a programming language is... not usual.
22:36:43 -!- casmith_789 has joined.
22:36:50 <ehird> hi casmith_789
22:36:55 <ais523> help, we're being invaded by troll-watchers
22:36:57 <alexholowczak> ehird: He's bot inspecting too, I believe.
22:36:58 <casmith_789> hi
22:37:02 <ehird> .c printf("hello world\n"); /* don't tempt me ais523 */
22:37:05 <ais523> casmith_789: how long until the whole of the rest of the channel turns up?
22:37:09 <alexholowczak> s/bot/troll/
22:37:11 <Slereah> He attracts tourism.
22:37:12 <alexholowczak> lol
22:37:21 <ehird> we should have people come in and fake trolling
22:37:23 <ehird> for the publicity
22:37:23 <Slereah> He's a valuable asset to this communauty.
22:37:34 <alexholowczak> The rest of the channel won't be that interested.
22:38:15 <ais523> ^bf >,[>,]<[.<]!Playing around with BF is fun.
22:38:15 <fungot> .nuf si FB htiw dnuora gniyalP
22:38:19 <casmith_789> I'm worried - is that programming language I see c?
22:38:25 <ehird> casmith_789: that was :-P
22:38:29 <ais523> ehird pasted a line of C above
22:38:30 <alexholowczak> casmith_789: It's probably esoteric... Oh.
22:38:30 <Judofyr> brb, switching to LimeChat :-)
22:38:32 -!- Judofyr has quit.
22:38:32 <ais523> but there isn't a Cbot in here
22:38:41 <Slereah> Good.
22:38:42 <ehird> ais523: I was threatening to add that to botte.
22:38:44 <Slereah> C is an awful language.
22:38:51 <ais523> ehird: it would be hard to get it working correctly
22:38:54 <Slereah> Hey, guy, why don't you take up Python?
22:38:58 <Slereah> It's an awesome language.
22:38:59 <ais523> although writing .c #define NULL argv would be fun
22:39:01 <Slereah> Or Scheme!
22:39:06 <ehird> ais523: not really, import standard headers, wrap in main(void) { ... }
22:39:08 <alexholowczak> Slereah: Are you xlq in disguise? :-P
22:39:08 <ais523> or Smalltalk?
22:39:09 <ehird> err
22:39:15 <ais523> alexholowczak: no
22:39:15 <ehird> int main(void) { ...; return 0; }
22:39:25 <ehird> and run in sandbox
22:39:27 <Slereah> xlq?
22:39:28 * ais523 waits for AnMaster to wonder wtf is going on
22:39:42 <alexholowczak> Slereah: He's someone who I know... Who always goes on about how great python is.
22:39:48 -!- Judofyr has joined.
22:39:51 <ehird> hi Judofyr
22:39:52 <Slereah> Well, it is!
22:39:53 <ais523> Perl vs. Python is one of the big Holy Wars
22:39:53 <Judofyr> hi!
22:39:59 <ais523> just like emacs vs. vi
22:40:01 <Slereah> I don't know Perl
22:40:06 <ais523> or 1tbs vs. BSD-style indentation
22:40:07 <ehird> ruby :P
22:40:08 <Slereah> So I'll just go PYTHON ACKBAR >:|
22:40:22 <ehird> Judofyr: limechat is written in ruby FWIW :P
22:40:28 <ehird> well, everyone:
22:40:33 <Judofyr> cool
22:40:41 <ais523> looks like time to go home, anyway
22:40:42 -!- casmith_789 has quit (Client Quit).
22:40:44 <ehird> hmm on further inspection the site says that
22:40:46 <ehird> about 3 times
22:40:47 <ehird> bye ais523
22:40:50 <AnMaster> ais523, ?
22:40:50 <ais523> you'll have to have fun troll-watching on your own
22:40:51 <AnMaster> what?
22:40:55 <ais523> AnMaster: someone mentioned xlq
22:40:55 <ehird> AnMaster: we have a troll.
22:40:57 <ais523> who wasn't me
22:41:00 <ais523> also, we have a troll
22:41:02 <ehird> ais523 pinged you for some reason
22:41:07 -!- JKLELVE has joined.
22:41:10 <ehird> ooh he's back
22:41:10 -!- JKLELVE has set topic: befunge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ftw! and its not some stupid python vs perl flame war! it's about being rational on what languages can be used and what hobbies you people need to revaluate!.
22:41:12 -!- JKLELVE has left (?).
22:41:16 <ehird> //
22:41:18 <ehird> Wait.
22:41:19 <ehird> Befunge ftw?
22:41:23 <ehird> Isn't this guy anti-eso/
22:41:25 <AnMaster> ehird, huh
22:41:30 <Slereah> Everyone <3 Befunge, ehird
22:41:32 <alexholowczak> Hoe did he see that?
22:41:34 <ehird> AnMaster: apparently I suck balls!
22:41:36 <alexholowczak> He wasn't here at the time.
22:41:37 <ehird> alexholowczak: He log watches, duh.
22:41:40 <alexholowczak> Ah.
22:41:43 <ehird> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.01.03
22:41:43 <AnMaster> ehird, report to opers and/or chanops
22:41:43 <ais523> bye, anyway
22:41:45 <alexholowczak> Sorry: New to this. :-P
22:41:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit).
22:41:47 <ehird> AnMaster: there are none, stupid
22:41:49 <ehird> :P
22:41:56 <ehird> also, freenode oeprs don't deal with cahnnel-specific thngs
22:41:56 <AnMaster> ehird, lament?
22:42:00 <ehird> lament is never here
22:42:09 <ehird> besides, he'll tire soon enough
22:42:11 <Judofyr> Camping is probably the framework for you guys: http://github.com/why/camping/tree/master/lib%2Fcamping.rb
22:42:13 <Judofyr> :P
22:42:15 <ehird> meanwhile, he's amusingly idiotic
22:42:16 -!- jvkelfoe has joined.
22:42:19 -!- jvkelfoe has set topic: report?! LOLOLOLOL suck it up and accept the fact i'm right here! esosteric languages suck monkey balls!.
22:42:20 -!- jvkelfoe has left (?).
22:42:22 <ehird> Judofyr: i love camping, it's ridiculous
22:42:30 <AnMaster> ehird, yes he is, he made a zen comment just a few a weeks ago
22:42:33 <ehird> troll: like we'd dignify you with a reporting.
22:42:36 <AnMaster> and then went away again
22:42:41 <ehird> AnMaster: whatever
22:42:42 <Judofyr> in my local repo I've manged to get it below 3k
22:42:43 <fizzie> Hrm?
22:42:48 <ehird> fizzie: troll
22:42:48 <ehird> see above
22:42:51 <ehird> he's been here for hours XD
22:42:52 <fizzie> Maybe I should do at +t, then.
22:42:55 <ehird> aww
22:42:58 <ehird> well, yes.
22:43:04 <Slereah> Do that, fizzie
22:43:06 <AnMaster> anyway going afk again, studying for test
22:43:09 <AnMaster> fizzie have op?
22:43:10 <Slereah> Maybe he'll talk to us for reals :D
22:43:11 -!- ehird has set topic: TAKE THIS | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:43:13 <ehird> +t it
22:43:16 <ehird> and force him to USE MESSAGES
22:43:23 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:43:51 <AnMaster> yes he has
22:43:58 <AnMaster> and he can even edit access list it seems
22:43:58 <ehird> fizzie: +t? :{
22:44:02 <AnMaster> from a quick look
22:44:07 <Judofyr> ehird: hm... I can't see when other talks in other channels, though :/
22:44:10 <Judofyr> (in limechat)
22:44:11 <ehird> fizzie has been an op since like 2003
22:44:13 <ehird> Judofyr: yes you can
22:44:15 <ehird> it goes blue
22:44:17 <ehird> and comes on the console
22:44:18 <ehird> (bottom pane)
22:44:30 -!- iivkee has joined.
22:44:32 <fizzie> 00:44:20 [freenode] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- The KEEPTOPIC flag has been set for channel #esoteric.
22:44:32 -!- iivkee has set topic: +t? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA no this is what you do, type /j #C.
22:44:34 -!- iivkee has left (?).
22:44:39 <Judofyr> oh..
22:44:40 <ehird> fizzie: no
22:44:41 <ehird> not keep topic
22:44:43 <ehird> that's a chanserv thang
22:44:44 <fizzie> I have no idea what that does.
22:44:47 <ehird> Judofyr: it's just like colloquy
22:44:50 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:44:52 <fizzie> Freenode is so confusing!
22:44:53 <ehird> fizzie: just +t
22:44:54 <Judofyr> I see
22:45:00 <ehird> /mode +t #esoteric :P
22:45:16 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie.
22:45:21 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +t.
22:45:22 -!- viekwke has joined.
22:45:25 -!- viekwke has left (?).
22:45:28 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t.
22:45:28 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t.
22:45:32 <Judofyr> haha!
22:45:39 -!- VKEKWEKW has joined.
22:45:46 -!- VKEKWEKW has left (?).
22:45:48 <fizzie> Heh, modelocked to not have +t. Freenode, how silly you are.
22:46:00 <AnMaster> fizzie, keep topic means the topic will be restored after a netsplit or such
22:46:03 -!- Slereah has set topic: Woooo, ghost blowjob!.
22:46:05 <AnMaster> as when it goes empty
22:46:07 <AnMaster> anyway
22:46:14 <AnMaster> fizzie, do you have +s in flags?
22:46:16 -!- ehird has left (?).
22:46:18 -!- ehird has joined.
22:46:24 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +t.
22:46:25 <AnMaster> then you can change the modelock
22:46:31 <fizzie> Yes.
22:46:34 <AnMaster> :)
22:46:39 <AnMaster> fizzie, also ban him maybe?
22:46:40 -!- fizzie has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
22:46:40 <ehird> fizzie: add +t to the modelock, then.
22:46:44 <AnMaster> he uses the same ip all the time
22:46:48 <fizzie> Yes, that sounds like a good idea.
22:46:53 <Judofyr> yeah. +1 on ban
22:47:03 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +b *!n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net.
22:47:09 <fizzie> Let's start with something that exact.
22:47:13 <AnMaster> sure
22:47:15 <fizzie> At least there's something to evade.
22:47:16 <alexholowczak> Why didn't you do that ages ago?
22:47:21 <ehird> fizzie: I like our new permanent topic.
22:47:22 <ehird> NO
22:47:24 <ehird> DON'T BAN HIM
22:47:26 <ehird> he's hilarious
22:47:29 <ehird> you nazi
22:47:29 <AnMaster> ..
22:47:31 <ehird> nooooooooooooooooooooo
22:47:32 <ehird> >:(
22:47:34 <ehird> you suck.
22:47:37 <ehird> trollwatching is fun.
22:47:40 <ehird> he's used a different ident.
22:47:46 <ehird> hey troll, come troll #esoteric-SANS-FASCISM
22:47:53 <alexholowczak> lol
22:48:00 <Judofyr> ^^
22:48:05 <AnMaster> ehird, in that case
22:48:17 <AnMaster> changing the topic is censorship
22:48:18 <fizzie> It's a fair chance he'll bother evading at least that particular ban.
22:48:22 <AnMaster> preventing free speech
22:48:30 <AnMaster> :P
22:49:18 <ehird> AnMaster: IT IS.
22:49:24 <ehird> troll please come back with a different ident
22:49:26 <ehird> i miss you already.
22:49:42 <ehird> you scared him away
22:49:45 <ehird> bastard
22:49:54 -!- ehird_Im_here has joined.
22:50:01 <ehird_Im_here> hahahahahahah
22:50:04 <ehird_Im_here> finally +t
22:50:04 <ehird_Im_here> ?
22:50:05 <Slereah> Why hello, man who's ehird
22:50:06 <ehird_Im_here> LOLROFLMAO
22:50:07 <ehird_Im_here> sadddd
22:50:11 -!- ehird_Im_here has left (?).
22:50:16 <Slereah> Lame.
22:50:17 <ehird> :DDD
22:50:19 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:50:23 <ehird> won't need him for a while
22:50:25 <Slereah> Just ban him, he's not dedicated to entertain us.
22:50:34 <ehird> NO.
22:50:39 <ehird> he is my new lover.
22:50:42 <Judofyr> :O
22:50:43 <fizzie> See, you got what you asked for. And it was even a different IP.
22:50:46 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm he changed ip too
22:50:47 <ehird> i know fizzie
22:50:48 <AnMaster> ah yes
22:50:49 <ehird> I love it
22:50:54 <ehird> he's so dedicated<333
22:51:03 <AnMaster> ehird, how did this start
22:51:10 <AnMaster> it is way out of my scrollback by now
22:51:12 <Judofyr> I got 4-5 WEP-encrypted networks ATM
22:51:17 <ehird> AnMaster: he came in and asked if anyone was ther
22:51:18 <ehird> I said yes
22:51:23 <ehird> he changed the topic to tell us to get laid
22:51:23 <AnMaster> and then?
22:51:24 <ehird> and parted
22:51:28 <AnMaster> wtf
22:51:29 <ehird> then he started doing this, basically.
22:51:37 <AnMaster> ehird, wonder why he started doing that
22:51:42 <ehird> AnMaster: he wants us to use real languages, like C and Perl, apparently
22:51:48 <AnMaster> -_-
22:51:50 <ehird> and wants us to change our hobby to 'getting laid'
22:51:57 <ehird> whereas he's content himself with 'trolling IRC channels'
22:52:04 <AnMaster> ehird, well we do use such languages, to write interpreters in
22:52:14 <ehird> ais523 already said that,
22:52:18 <AnMaster> ok
22:53:05 <alexholowczak> I'm leaving now... The interest has passed. :-P
22:53:09 -!- alexholowczak has quit ("Leaving.").
22:53:47 <fizzie> I can understand the "you should use real languages" thing, but he/she seems so uncommonly... intense about it.
22:54:10 <AnMaster> who was alexholowczak
22:54:10 <AnMaster> ?
22:54:21 <Slereah> Well, he's a troll
22:54:33 <ehird> er, no
22:54:36 <ehird> AnMaster: from #chess
22:54:41 <ehird> ais523 invited him to troll watch
22:54:44 <AnMaster> oh
22:54:53 <ehird> fizzie: he desperately cares that we are all laid
22:54:55 <ehird> so kind
22:55:26 -!- kveiwekw has joined.
22:55:31 <kveiwekw> yeah i do motherfucker
22:55:33 -!- kveiwekw has left (?).
22:55:34 <Slereah> Well, mister troll, send me a picture and I'll see if I can give you some loving
22:55:50 <AnMaster> hm, if I pull this lever on the office chair I'm in I do tilt backwards, so I guess that means that I'm almost lying back, thus "getting laid"
22:55:50 <AnMaster> :D
22:55:57 <ehird> lam
22:55:57 <ehird> e
22:56:10 <AnMaster> ehird, me or Slereah?
22:56:16 <ehird> troll, let's have sex. then we'll -both- lose our virginity!
22:56:17 <ehird> oh snap
22:56:19 <ehird> AnMaster: you
22:56:25 <AnMaster> ehird, thanks, I prefer those jokes
22:56:30 <AnMaster> bad jokes you know
22:56:34 <ehird> yes. we know.
22:56:43 <Slereah> ehird : Hey, we can share him.
22:56:49 <Slereah> Are you more of a top or a bottom?
22:56:50 <ehird> no
22:56:51 <ehird> he's all mine <3
22:56:54 <Slereah> What of you troll?
23:02:02 <fizzie> I would assume trolling would be more "fun" somewhere where people would take it more seriously. Trolling esoteric language enthusiasts about their tastes in programming languages is like trying to annoy a duck by pouring water on it (i.e. you need to do it a whole lot).
23:02:17 <Slereah> heh.
23:02:20 <ehird> ha
23:02:28 <Slereah> He does not have the dedication or strength of a nigra.
23:02:42 <ehird> i think Slereah is actually a troll
23:02:42 <ehird> :d
23:02:44 <ehird> :D
23:02:52 <AnMaster> hm
23:03:09 <Slereah> Well, not here at least.
23:03:18 <Slereah> Sure, I may talk about gay sex.
23:03:26 <Slereah> But only for the eyes of augur.
23:03:29 <AnMaster> fizzie, you verified that scientifically? About the duck I mean.
23:03:40 <Slereah> He once drowned a duck.
23:03:53 <AnMaster> Slereah, maffia style?
23:03:54 <AnMaster> :D
23:04:01 <Slereah> Cement duck
23:04:06 <AnMaster> heh
23:04:14 <Judofyr> duck punching!
23:04:31 <AnMaster> Can a duck duck?
23:04:40 <ehird> Judofyr: ITYM sex in the city space shuttle
23:05:01 <ehird> for the hopeless outsiders: http://hackety.org/2007/08/10/myCompleteListOfSubstitutePhrasesForTheActWeNowKnowToBeMonkeypatching.html
23:05:02 <fizzie> Actually I spent a whole lot of time to think of a better simile, with no luck; had to go with the "like water off a duck's back" idiom.
23:05:09 <AnMaster> ehird, huh, what is a "city space shuttle"?
23:05:19 <ehird> AnMaster: I think it parses as ((sex in the city) space shuttle)
23:05:26 <ehird> XD
23:05:31 <AnMaster> ehird, that doesn't make much sense
23:05:42 <Judofyr> more like, Attempting To Exercise Just A Fraction Of The Lawlessness And Lack Of Discipline Which We All First Learned From Why The Lucky Stiff
23:05:42 <ehird> _why doesn't make much sense
23:05:53 <AnMaster> ehird, unless "sex in the city" was a name or such.
23:05:58 <AnMaster> which afaik it isn't?
23:06:45 <AnMaster> hm googling seems to indicate it is a movie or something such, so ok, I guess that parsing would make sense then
23:06:57 <Judofyr> still, I think _why is a genius!
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23:07:15 <fizzie> (Curiously in Finnish it's "kuin vesi hanhen selästä", lit. "like water off a geese's back"; I'm not sure why they've used a bit different waterfowl there.)
23:07:51 <ehird> typography is annoying
23:07:59 * oerjan wonders if this means the same as norwegian "som vann på gåsa" (also goose)
23:08:26 <fizzie> oerjan: Like water off a duck's back; yes, I think it's the same thing.
23:08:34 <AnMaster> fizzie, well that exists in Swedish too, except it uses goose instead
23:08:42 <AnMaster> "som att hälla vatten på en gås"
23:09:04 <fizzie> The Nordic countries seem all to be very goose-friendly.
23:09:12 <AnMaster> what about English?
23:09:20 <fizzie> It's a duck in English.
23:09:20 <AnMaster> doesn't something similar exists for there
23:09:37 <oerjan> no, we just have intensive knowledge in how to torture geese, and know that water doesn't work
23:09:59 <AnMaster> fizzie, that depends on what it is in Denmark and on Iceland
23:10:02 <AnMaster> oerjan, :D
23:10:16 <Judofyr> what about Norway? :-(
23:10:25 <oerjan> Judofyr: already mentioned
23:10:26 <AnMaster> Judofyr, that is what oerjan said
23:10:26 <AnMaster> ...
23:10:37 <Judofyr> oh
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23:11:07 <ehird> norway is fake
23:11:10 <oerjan> danish: "som at slå vand på en gås"
23:11:11 <Judofyr> :O
23:11:21 <Judofyr> ehird: how?
23:11:22 <oerjan> (says google hit)
23:11:25 <ehird> it doesn't exist
23:11:33 <oerjan> darn you got us
23:11:35 <AnMaster> oerjan, ok, then geese is in clear majority even if Icelandic (sp?) use something else
23:12:16 <AnMaster> maybe geese were more common here? And ducks more common in UK?
23:12:18 <AnMaster> or something such
23:12:24 <AnMaster> I guess that could explain it
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23:12:48 <oerjan> we are just a giant petroleum platform in the north sea, with a giant hedge fund
23:13:20 <AnMaster> oerjan, wait what, I visted Oslo this summer, looked at Fram and such things...
23:13:24 <AnMaster> you mean that was fake?
23:13:30 <AnMaster> or not located in Norway?
23:13:31 <fizzie> It's done with mirrors, I guess.
23:13:38 <AnMaster> fizzie, really?
23:13:41 <Judofyr> and magnets
23:13:53 <Judofyr> _always_ magnets
23:13:58 <oerjan> that's our park area, it's inside the platform
23:14:15 <AnMaster> fizzie, must be a lot of mirrors then, because I traveled by train from Sweden to Olso, and we seemed to travel for several hours through wilderness
23:14:25 <AnMaster> I guess they did it when passing through one of the mirrors
23:14:26 <AnMaster> err
23:14:29 <AnMaster> one of the tunnels
23:14:54 <fizzie> Yes, then they run the train in a circle and use their anti-gravity thingamajicks to keep you from noticing.
23:15:04 <AnMaster> you know, like just a km or 2 on the edge of Sweden, then through a long tunnel, and somehow using mirrors to make it not look like the tunnel was that long
23:15:07 <fizzie> It's the simplest way!
23:15:17 <oerjan> AnMaster: the wilderness is just CGI
23:15:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, you still need a tiny strip of land there
23:15:34 <AnMaster> oerjan, well it can't be before the first tunnel I think
23:15:50 <AnMaster> so I'd say there is a tiny strip of real norway there
23:15:54 <ehird> no
23:16:00 <fizzie> They do have a "wild goose chase" in English; I'm not sure we have an equivalent one here.
23:16:00 <ehird> norway -does- -not- -exist-
23:16:11 <AnMaster> fizzie, what does it mean?
23:16:15 <AnMaster> oerjan, hm
23:16:19 <oerjan> um the train windows are actually plasma screens
23:16:34 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh? really? They put them up during the travel then?
23:16:44 <AnMaster> or somehow faked the view when inside Sweden?
23:16:56 <oerjan> they're just programmed to show a camera view while in sweden
23:17:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, ah!
23:17:07 <fizzie> AnMaster: "a lengthy or useless pursuit or task whose execution requires inordinate resources and circuitous execution" is the wikipediaic definition.
23:17:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, heh
23:18:11 <fizzie> And actually the interwebs tell me the Vietnamese water-duck idion is literally "like pouring water on a duck's head", instead of back. Their methods for animal torture are obviously different.
23:19:04 <AnMaster> fizzie, link?
23:19:17 <AnMaster> fizzie, we don't specify a part in Sweden
23:19:23 <AnMaster> we just talk about the duck in generic
23:19:37 <fizzie> AnMaster: At the bottom of http://www.cjvlang.com/Birds/duck4.html
23:19:42 <AnMaster> same for that Norwegian phrase oerjan used.
23:20:04 <fizzie> AnMaster: The Finnish variant mentions the back, like the English one.
23:20:15 <oerjan> and the danish doesn't either
23:20:21 <AnMaster> right
23:20:29 * oerjan fails at guessing how to find the icelandic equivalent
23:20:40 <AnMaster> oerjan, wikipedia?
23:23:55 <oerjan> ah, "að kasta vatni á gæs"
23:25:14 <fizzie> That's not in wiktionary's "Icelandic idioms / similes" lists, but those aren't very long anyway. Sounds goose-ish, anyway.
23:25:40 <oerjan> well i started by translating water and goose with wiktionary
23:25:47 <oerjan> then googled the combination
23:28:48 <oerjan> http://www.ms.is/Islenska/Fernuflug/Fernuflug-II/ordtok/ has it
23:29:21 <oerjan> s/kasta/skvetta/
23:29:42 <oerjan> skvette is the norwegian verb too
23:30:50 <oerjan> oklosol: feeling particularly bright today?
23:30:53 <fizzie> I shouldn't be too surprised if they had something more common with a vaguely similar meaning; they are such purists. Well, maybe they don't mind idioms so much.
23:31:16 <oerjan> those are all good icelandic words
23:31:34 <AnMaster> oerjan, Swedish has skvätta, which is close
23:31:47 <oerjan> (stökkva instead of skvetta was also mentioned)
23:32:49 <AnMaster> and yes they are purists
23:34:20 <AnMaster> they son't just use -son style names, they use -dóttir too
23:34:27 <AnMaster> purists yeah...
23:36:15 <oerjan> moreover, they don't inherit them
23:36:21 <AnMaster> indeed!
23:37:14 <oerjan> i've heard/read this weird story about an icelandic woman who moved to swedish but was allowed to keep her -dóttir name
23:37:25 <oerjan> the problem occured when she got a son...
23:37:26 <AnMaster> moved to Swedish?
23:37:27 <AnMaster> wtf
23:37:31 <AnMaster> Moved to Sweden?
23:37:31 <oerjan> *sweden
23:37:35 <AnMaster> right
23:37:41 <AnMaster> but you can keep your name when you move
23:37:43 <AnMaster> that is normal
23:37:55 <AnMaster> I can't imagine it not being the case
23:38:00 <oerjan> yes. as i said the problem happened when she got a son.
23:38:14 <AnMaster> oh right
23:38:15 <AnMaster> I see
23:38:19 <AnMaster> oerjan, what happened?
23:38:33 <oerjan> and the government insisted he had to have her surname
23:38:42 <AnMaster> oerjan, what happened in the end?
23:39:04 <oerjan> i don't remember, it may be a fake anecdote for all i know
23:39:26 <AnMaster> oerjan, it may be real, sounds like usual Swedish gov
23:39:41 <AnMaster> incompetent if you want to put it nicely
23:40:15 <oerjan> the nothing is possible unless there is a rule allowing it kind, i assume
23:40:28 <ehird> ha
23:40:34 <AnMaster> oerjan, eh?
23:40:36 <ehird> AnMaster: can't be more incompetent than the uk
23:40:41 <AnMaster> s/the/then/?
23:40:54 <AnMaster> ehird, I think around the same level probably
23:41:00 <oerjan> i expect that's global, at least in those countries that _have_ rule by law
23:41:07 <ehird> AnMaster: almost impossible
23:41:11 <ehird> do you guys have cctv everywhere?
23:41:56 <AnMaster> ehird, no but we have the FRA law and the IPRED law, though those met a storm of protests in media so the gov is finally starting to retreat
23:42:15 <ehird> ipred?
23:42:21 <ehird> ah, intellectual property.
23:42:27 <AnMaster> yeah
23:42:31 <ehird> AnMaster: what about a national, required ID card scheme?
23:42:39 <AnMaster> ehird, hm?
23:42:42 <AnMaster> what do you mean?
23:42:49 <ehird> AnMaster: a required government-assigned identification card for every citizen
23:42:56 <ehird> "fascism" is an understatement
23:42:59 <AnMaster> ehird, that you have to carry on you!?
23:43:01 <ehird> AnMaster: yep
23:43:08 <ehird> the gov is pushing it for 2012
23:43:10 <AnMaster> ehird, how the heck would that work for child?
23:43:17 <AnMaster> children*
23:43:30 <oerjan> AnMaster: they just tattoo it on, duh
23:43:31 <ehird> AnMaster: i'm not sure it applies to minors
23:43:38 <ehird> AnMaster: but, delegated to the parent
23:43:38 <ehird> I assume
23:43:43 * oerjan ducks
23:44:01 <AnMaster> ehird, well no we don't have that, not yet at least
23:44:06 <AnMaster> with EU.. who knows
23:44:10 <fizzie> Maybe they could stick an implant in, that'd be the neat.
23:44:13 <ehird> proposal: the id card is chip-implanted into their brains
23:44:15 <ehird> fizzie: snap
23:44:23 <ehird> it allows for easy termination of dissenting citizens!
23:44:38 <AnMaster> hm
23:44:54 <AnMaster> ehird, you know this sounds like 1984 somehow
23:44:58 <AnMaster> those cameras too
23:45:02 <ehird> Oh, definitely.
23:45:09 <ehird> It _is_ an instruction manual, right? :-)
23:45:30 <ehird> AnMaster: we also require ISPs to censor the internet
23:45:55 <fizzie> There is a crazy crank Finnish page about how the current Finnish ID card (which has a chip in it for RSA signatures or some-such, but is in no means obligatory) is a tool of the devil, the mark of the beast.
23:46:16 <fizzie> It's at http://www.varo666siru.net/ and has some English and Swedish content too.
23:46:25 <AnMaster> ehird, I think the gov makes our ISPs block child porn sites, optional though, but with a loaded gun pointed at those who disagree
23:46:37 <AnMaster> so only optional on the paper
23:46:51 <ehird> AnMaster: The centralized UK provider that handles the block blocked this page recently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Killer [you might not want to click]
23:47:02 <ehird> there was a load of hoohah about it recently
23:47:07 <fizzie> "When a person has this chip in them, they can be located in any part of the world and by a press of a button, be activated! This chip is microscopically small; it is of the size of the tip of an ordinary syringe needle."
23:47:11 <ehird> in that it's not actually illegal
23:47:21 <AnMaster> ehird, hm
23:47:24 <AnMaster> what is it about then?
23:47:32 <ehird> AnMaster: the album cover.
23:47:44 <AnMaster> ehird, never heard of it, *loads page with tor*
23:47:47 <ehird> [NSFW, NMS (Not Mind Safe)]
23:48:17 <fizzie> "The Bible says that at some point this ”biochip” will be offered to all people. It is better to die than to receive a mark that makes a human being a robot."
23:48:49 <ehird> fizzie: where is this chip put?
23:49:47 <AnMaster> fizzie, sounds like a mild version of time cube
23:49:53 <fizzie> "Under the skin." And the current chip in the ID card is a "prototype" for it.
23:49:59 <AnMaster> oh damn, now I got eh... started...
23:50:17 <ehird> fizzie: Ah. So it doesn't actually exist. AnMaster: Me? :P
23:50:22 <ehird> EDUCATED STUPID
23:50:36 <fizzie> ehird: Oh, no, it already exists, it's just not yet forcibly installed in everyone.
23:50:44 <fizzie> "Today at least 6,000 people in Sweden have taken that mark and they are being followed all the time.Their location can be displayed on a TV screen any time."
23:50:51 <fizzie> (I'm not sure what Sweden has to do with this.)
23:50:53 <ehird> fizzie: I mean, an under-the-skin chip exists?
23:50:59 <ehird> Government-made?
23:51:15 <fizzie> Yes. It's a CIA project. Or something.
23:51:21 <fizzie> It's a bit confusing, to tell the truth.
23:51:28 <ehird> Ah. So it doesn't actually exist.
23:51:29 <AnMaster> fizzie, how is it related to 9/11?
23:51:39 <AnMaster> and ufos?
23:52:03 <oerjan> under-the-skin chips probably exist, for medical uses
23:52:16 <AnMaster> oerjan, pacemaker?
23:52:23 <fizzie> "Manipulated by the chip, one person became like a Nazi of former times, a superman bubbling over with zeal. When the stimulus was further slightly increased, everything was over."
23:52:33 <oerjan> that too
23:53:10 <fizzie> Anyway, this text was from a "an abridged version of a 3-hour speech of Dr. Colin Sanders, D. Sc. (Tech), USA"; and that site is collecting all kinds of stuff that says "micro-chip" in it as "evidence" that the Finnish government is planning some dastardly thing like this too.
23:53:29 <ehird> i love crackpots.
23:53:45 <ehird> On December 20, 2007, Scorpions played at a concert for the elite of Russia’s security forces in the Kremlin. The concert celebrated the 90th anniversary of the founding of the Cheka - predecessor of the KGB. Members of the audience included President Vladimir Putin.
23:53:51 <ehird> -- about the band with the censored colour
23:53:55 <oerjan> if you believe literally in Revelation then you'd have to believe something like that
23:54:11 <ehird> oerjan: if you literally believe in any part of the bible you have to be a crackpot by obligation...
23:54:46 <oerjan> oh there are probably sections that are literally true
23:54:59 <oerjan> maybe not a whole book though
23:55:10 <oerjan> (book of the bible)
23:55:12 <ehird> oerjan: name one :P
23:55:21 <fizzie> Some parts of that page make me think it's parody, though. (My translation this time) "There are also rumours of so-called blue tooth, that would be used in the EU area [for passport/identification/etc]" which sounds too much like a joke, given... well, you know, bluetooth.
23:55:45 <ehird> i bet the bears mauling the teenagers who called the guy baldie is true
23:55:48 <ehird> it's too good not to be
23:55:56 <ehird> fizzie: that's not much of a stretch for a crackpot
23:56:02 <oerjan> ehird: i didn't say i could say which are true.
23:56:54 * oerjan used that story to make a Jehovah's Witness give up on him once, ihrc
23:57:22 <fizzie> The basic gist seems to be that all kinds of (medical or other) implants make it possible to control (via satellites!!1) you like a robot.
23:58:17 <fizzie> (Gene-tweaked grain is also somehow related.)
23:58:30 <ehird> i want a jehovah's witness to bother m
23:58:30 <ehird> e
23:58:37 <ehird> I'd come out with The Origin of the Species
23:58:43 <ehird> and ask if I could help them
23:59:18 <fizzie> We used to get them semi-regularly (not more than something like once/year, though) in the university student village.
00:00:08 <fizzie> Oh, there are details, too. Motorola is building these chips; the model number is "BT 952000".
00:01:52 <oerjan> do they come with that leap year bug that Zune got from that Motorola spinoff?
00:02:32 <ehird> BT 952000 --http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/themagazine/vol8/articles/montex.shtml
00:02:38 <ehird> so, some consistency'
00:03:12 <fizzie> Yes; I didn't know that the corporation called "Lucent" got its name from "LUCifer ENTerprises".
00:03:17 <fizzie> One would think that's not very good PR.
00:03:24 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:03:27 <ehird> ha
00:06:11 * oerjan now wants to look up dev.* corporation names :D
00:08:22 <oerjan> i suggest staying away from Canada's DEVCO
00:10:35 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie.
00:10:49 <fizzie> Incidentally, have to sleep; do you want me to leave that +t on or what?
00:12:13 <ehird> No.
00:12:15 <ehird> Turn it off. :D
00:12:24 <kerlo> -t is nice when you have no trolls.
00:15:28 <fizzie> I'm not that sure that particular topic-sillitude will not come back, but I guess there's not much Real Talk during the "night-time" anyway.
00:15:43 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t.
00:15:52 <fizzie> Sleepitude, now; g'night.
00:16:51 <oerjan> WE ARE DOOMED! DOOMED, I SAY!
00:21:53 <ehird> I just made a great misreading
00:21:57 <ehird> "with enough bugs, all eyes are shallow"
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00:36:33 * ehird puts a black background on everythin before his eyes cave in
00:38:03 <oerjan> BLACK IS THE (NON-)COLOR OF EVIL
00:39:25 <ehird> dear apple: i would like a free leopard upgrade so that I don't get ugly white window mesh clashing with my ultimat blakk
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01:08:36 <AnMaster> ehird, eh?
01:08:43 <AnMaster> ehird, can't you change theme in OS X?
01:08:51 <ehird> Not the window chrome, no.
01:08:57 <AnMaster> how strange
01:08:59 <ehird> Didn't you know that Apple is always right? :-P
01:09:08 <AnMaster> ehird, you just said they weren't?
01:09:17 <ehird> Steve Jobs would disapprove of your sacrelige of his perfect design.
01:09:21 <ehird> You uncouth savage. :D
01:10:03 <AnMaster> NEWS: Today ehird was making fun of Apple. Read more on page 7, 9, 12-13 and 17
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01:10:29 <ehird> I'm sure I've done that before :|
01:10:49 <AnMaster> no you complained when I was doing it!
01:11:38 <ehird> I wonder if Apple stopped disobeying their own HIG in 10.5.
01:11:40 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway, iirc you can change theme even on windows xp
01:11:46 <AnMaster> HIG?
01:11:52 <AnMaster> HIGH?
01:11:57 <ehird> AnMaster: Human Interface Guidlines
01:11:59 <AnMaster> ah
01:12:01 <ehird> *Guidelines
01:12:04 <AnMaster> if you added an H