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01:35:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:95-98]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156964 * Tpaefawzen * (+137) Created page with "== About addition arithmetic command == Where will the result be stored? --~~~"
01:36:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:95-98]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156965&oldid=156964 * Tpaefawzen * (+24)
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05:19:37 <esolangs> [[Indurate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156966&oldid=93143 * Stkptr * (+2221) Maybe TC
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07:47:07 <esolangs> [[Indurate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156967&oldid=156966 * Stkptr * (-372) no_prelude wasn't deprecated, it apparently never really existed
08:03:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156968&oldid=156963 * Stkptr * (+193)
08:28:39 <esolangs> [[Indurate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156969&oldid=156967 * Stkptr * (-862)
10:14:15 <esolangs> [[Fn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156970&oldid=154473 * C0ffee * (+17) /* Examples */
10:43:05 <esolangs> [[;)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156971 * C0ffee * (+647) Created page with "''';)''' is a stack-based programming language that only uses symbols. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Description |- | . || push 0 |- | + || add |- | - || sub |- | * || mult,repeat,join |- | / || div,split |- | % || mod |- | ^ || pow |- | ~ || eval |- | :
10:46:27 <esolangs> [[;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156972&oldid=156971 * C0ffee * (+39)
10:49:06 <esolangs> [[User:C0ffee]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156973&oldid=156646 * C0ffee * (+12)
10:49:44 <esolangs> [[;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156974&oldid=156972 * C0ffee * (+336)
10:50:27 <esolangs> [[;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156975&oldid=156974 * C0ffee * (+13)
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12:39:32 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/TCP1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156976&oldid=149606 * I am islptng * (+42)
12:40:56 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156977&oldid=154245 * I am islptng * (+29) /* To-do List */
12:44:38 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/TCP1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156978&oldid=156976 * I am islptng * (+186)
12:55:58 <b_jonas> `learn the password of the month is the fifth law of thermodynamics.
12:56:06 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': the password of the month is the fifth law of thermodynamics.
12:56:11 <HackEso> the password of the month is the fifth law of thermodynamics.
13:30:33 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156979&oldid=156322 * Lampe2020 * (+630) /* Stackowey */ Add Stackowey implementation
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14:06:35 <esolangs> [[Waduzitdo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156980&oldid=154564 * Krolkrol * (-1)
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14:55:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156981&oldid=156928 * PurplrIsSus1985 * (+22) /* V */
15:04:02 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Zerons]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156982&oldid=154563 * Aadenboy * (+1060) redefining and actually having an answer to the sqrt of q
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16:17:51 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Zerons]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156983&oldid=156982 * Aadenboy * (-14)
16:22:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/TCP1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156984 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+243) Created page with "How [[User:Cycwin]] proved TCP1 to be [[Turing-complete]]? How ability to arbitrary increment and decrement three registers and make loops proves to be TC? ~~~~"
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16:52:59 <esolangs> [[Topple]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156985&oldid=155163 * H33T33 * (-123)
17:02:59 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156986 * H33T33 * (+610) Created page with "{{WIP}} Bobble, created by [[User:H33T33]], is being developed using C. ==Overview== {| class="wikitable" Unless otherwise specified, whitespace in any given code example is purely for organization. !Command !Description !Example(s) !Output |- | style="text-align:center"
17:04:33 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156987&oldid=154534 * H33T33 * (+13)
17:05:07 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156988&oldid=156987 * H33T33 * (+27)
17:05:46 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156989&oldid=156988 * H33T33 * (-2)
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19:01:44 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156990&oldid=156979 * Aadenboy * (+115) adding Iterate
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19:03:42 <zzo38> I had made up a build system for a C program I was making, which I started a few years ago but had made some improvements recently. It is a single C file so that compiling the build system itself should not be too difficult to do and is meant to be not too complicated, although further changes could still be made in future (e.g. adding parallel execution mode).
19:06:41 <zzo38> (Something I dislike about GNU make is that it has built-in rules and does not seem to have a way to disable it except by a command-line switch.)
19:21:27 <esolangs> [[Self-repeat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156991&oldid=133436 * Aadenboy * (-14) golfed version
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21:18:46 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156992&oldid=156981 * Buckets * (+10)
21:19:11 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156993&oldid=156900 * Buckets * (+9)
21:19:22 <esolangs> [[Oya]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156994 * Buckets * (+2277) Created page with "Oya is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | A+B || Given An operation between Two Variable Creating Another variable as the Output. |- | #D+E->F || Given An operation between Two Variab
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21:28:53 <esolangs> [[User:Unicodes/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156995&oldid=141043 * 5anz * (+19)
21:32:39 <esolangs> [[Cocytus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156996 * Helpeesl * (+2601) Created page with "== Intro == Cocytus is an Esolang created by [[User:helpeesl]] on may 1st 2025 ad and was designed to be the worst Esolang to code in. == The features == Cocytus has some awful features which includes: * The Qack * An awful way of printing text === Qack === The Qack is
22:27:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156997&oldid=155670 * Lampe2020 * (+1) Fixed a typo
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22:50:35 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156998&oldid=156847 * Lampe2020 * (-87) Replace Wikipedia URL links with wikitext Wikipedia links
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23:14:19 <esolangs> [[TWPL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156999 * Helpeesl * (+1591) Created page with "==Intro== TWPL(the worst programming language) was created by [[User:helpeesl]] on may/1/2025 and was designed to be the worst language to program in. ==Why is it so bad?== # You can only use whitespace, otherwise it wont work. # Everything starts at 1 # Text is flipped a
23:27:58 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157000&oldid=156915 * Corbin * (+545) Zephyr ASDL's grammar is quite small, so I yoinked it.
23:45:08 <esolangs> [[Free Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157001&oldid=152360 * Helpeesl * (+29) If you can change the language to f**king Python its Turing complete.
23:49:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157002&oldid=156997 * Lampe2020 * (+1601) Answer to [[User:stkptr]]'s comment
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23:51:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157003&oldid=157002 * Lampe2020 * (+0) Move parenthesis finally to the right place
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00:07:14 <esolangs> [[1 8 1 8 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157004&oldid=154101 * Helpeesl * (+17)
00:09:57 <HackEso> the password of the month is the fifth law of thermodynamics.
00:12:15 <int-e> . o O ( ``slwd password//s/t/T/ )
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00:21:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/TCP1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157005&oldid=156984 * I am islptng * (+882)
00:23:01 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157006&oldid=156998 * Lampe2020 * (+205) /* Syntax */ Add "sandwich" command
00:25:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157007&oldid=157003 * Lampe2020 * (+90) Edit my latest comment, add timestamp to my signature
00:26:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157008&oldid=157007 * Lampe2020 * (+31) Add dashes to my signature
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02:47:53 <b_jonas> int-e: sorry. feel free to edit it.
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06:26:55 <Sgeo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_base_13_function
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07:51:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:05AB1E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157009&oldid=77348 * JIT * (+212)
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08:42:10 <esolangs> [[User:Vertical tab 'N]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157010&oldid=150030 * Vertical Tab 'N * (+130) /* Java */
08:45:19 <esolangs> [[-HELL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157011 * Yetyetty1234567890 * (+499) made page imma reedit this later
09:02:04 <esolangs> [[-HELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157012&oldid=157011 * Yetyetty1234567890 * (+1252) yes
09:04:05 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157013&oldid=156992 * Yetyetty1234567890 * (+15)
09:05:47 <esolangs> [[User:Yetyetty1234567890]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157014&oldid=128085 * Yetyetty1234567890 * (+65)
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09:46:07 <esolangs> [[User:Lampe2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157015&oldid=155850 * Lampe2020 * (+124) Update my page
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10:11:10 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157016&oldid=157006 * Lampe2020 * (+0) Move dimensionality parameter to where it appears in the page
10:15:24 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157017&oldid=157016 * Lampe2020 * (+1) Make dimension count visible
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11:14:31 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157018&oldid=155627 * JIT * (+212) /* */
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14:00:50 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157019&oldid=156986 * H33T33 * (+89)
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14:06:32 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157020&oldid=157019 * H33T33 * (+224)
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15:01:17 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157021&oldid=157020 * H33T33 * (+338)
15:05:40 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157022&oldid=157021 * H33T33 * (+375)
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16:15:37 <esolangs> [[EWCO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157023 * LEOMOK * (+523) Created page with "'''EWCO''' (Esolang Wiki Code Olympiad) is a programming challenge created by [[User:LEOMOK]] created in May 2025. Every two months, a new challenge is created. Anyone can solve each challenge, and there is no time limit for any of them. You can put your solutions, partial a
16:15:44 <esolangs> [[EWCO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157024&oldid=157023 * LEOMOK * (+1)
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16:42:14 <esolangs> [[Free Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157025&oldid=157001 * Juanp32 * (+88) /* Additions */
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16:53:46 <esolangs> [[-HELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157026&oldid=157012 * Stkptr * (+120)
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16:54:07 <esolangs> [[-HELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157027&oldid=157026 * Stkptr * (+8) WIP since there is an unfinished TC proof
16:54:21 <esolangs> [[-HELL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157028&oldid=157027 * Stkptr * (+0) Template casing
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16:56:10 <esolangs> [[05AB1E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157029&oldid=79104 * Stkptr * (+29) It should be proven, but it's unlikely a featureful golf language isn't TC
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17:37:50 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157030&oldid=156807 * Zhil * (+288)
17:40:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157031&oldid=157030 * Pro465 * (+148)
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18:19:34 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157032&oldid=156954 * Zhil * (-352) Added 2-combinator base of length 6
18:34:03 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157033&oldid=157032 * Zhil * (+425) Normal order reduction
18:53:39 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157034&oldid=157033 * Zhil * (+1)
18:58:58 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157035&oldid=157034 * Zhil * (-17)
18:59:19 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157036&oldid=157035 * Zhil * (+0)
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19:31:32 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157037 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+2609) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Parenthesys''' is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]]. It's name is very misleading because it rarely uses parentheses. == Structure, literals and concatention == There are two data types: number and string. A number is a floating point number with a
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19:52:37 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157038&oldid=157036 * Zhil * (+237)
20:18:40 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157039&oldid=156623 * Dmiz * (+196)
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21:04:47 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157040&oldid=157013 * Buckets * (+15)
21:05:16 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157041&oldid=156993 * Buckets * (+14)
21:05:40 <esolangs> [[Oh, yeah]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157042 * Buckets * (+2391) Created page with "Oh, yeah is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024, Oh, yeah is A Dialect of [[Oya]], After Increasingly Realising that [[Oya]] was Probably Impossible to Interpret from a Computational View. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instruct
21:53:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RobinsAviary * New user account
21:57:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157043&oldid=156832 * RobinsAviary * (+220) Added my name
22:00:54 <esolangs> [[B (None1)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157044&oldid=132452 * RobinsAviary * (+219) Added an interpreter for Lua.
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23:04:17 <esolangs> [[F (None1)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157045&oldid=147553 * RobinsAviary * (+137) Added an interpreter for Lua.
23:05:32 <esolangs> [[F (None1)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157046&oldid=157045 * RobinsAviary * (-137) Removed Lua interpreter since "," cannot be implemented properly
23:21:38 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157047&oldid=156748 * RainbowDash * (-3)
23:25:25 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157048&oldid=156448 * Junkshipp * (+288) /* Translation of PA sentences */
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23:35:53 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157049&oldid=156637 * RainbowDash * (+463) Fix stuff
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02:35:58 <esolangs> [[User:Tpaefawzen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157050&oldid=155001 * Tpaefawzen * (+76)
02:36:28 <esolangs> [[User:Tpaefawzen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157051&oldid=157050 * Tpaefawzen * (-4)
03:18:05 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157052&oldid=157038 * Zhil * (+1)
04:10:35 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157053&oldid=157052 * Zhil * (+394)
04:11:30 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157054&oldid=157053 * Zhil * (-181)
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05:12:14 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157055&oldid=157054 * Zhil * (+1530) 1-combinator proof
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06:18:55 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157056&oldid=157055 * Zhil * (-421) 1-combinator base using z
06:35:38 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157057&oldid=157056 * Pro465 * (+205) /* Base Lengths */
06:37:08 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157058&oldid=157057 * Pro465 * (+0) /* Base Lengths */ fix the sentence order
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09:39:04 <esolangs> [[Fungraph]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157059 * None1 * (+1589) Created page with "'''Fungraph''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. It is [[Befunge]], but the code is not a grid but a graph. ==Graph== The graph in Fungraph has labeled and weighted nodes, which contain commands and node id (1-indexed) formatted like ''nodeid''-''command''. It a
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12:16:57 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157060&oldid=157048 * Hakerh400 * (+3125) Add operations and implement goldbach
12:22:44 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157061&oldid=157060 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
12:26:22 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157062&oldid=157061 * Hakerh400 * (-1)
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15:48:56 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157063&oldid=157037 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+859)
15:52:34 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157064&oldid=157063 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+11) /* Computational class */
15:53:51 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157065&oldid=157064 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Computational class */
16:02:13 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157066&oldid=157065 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+351)
16:15:10 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157067&oldid=156977 * I am islptng * (+142) /* My other pages */
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16:52:38 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157068&oldid=157040 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+43) /* P */
16:54:02 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157069&oldid=156924 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+68) /* My esolangs */
16:55:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157070&oldid=156809 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+165)
17:18:46 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157071&oldid=157066 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+68)
17:19:58 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157072&oldid=157058 * Zhil * (+1160) Added Busy Beavers
17:20:56 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157073&oldid=157072 * Zhil * (+0)
17:21:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157074&oldid=157070 * Ais523 * (+265) /* Challenge */ the specification needs to be clarified
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18:45:16 <esolangs> [[Pep & Chz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157075&oldid=118685 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1386) Introduced an examples section with three incipial members, this being a Hello, World! printer, a repeating cat program, and a truth-machine.
18:46:08 <esolangs> [[Pep & Chz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157076&oldid=157075 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+201) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Pep & Chz programming language on GitHub and supplemented the Implemented category tag.
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18:58:39 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157077&oldid=157071 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1036)
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19:32:16 <esolangs> [[Forthrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157078&oldid=156925 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) move>turn
19:33:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157079&oldid=157074 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+108) /* Challenge */
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19:36:53 <esolangs> [[Next Word Of The Week]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157080 * Leomok2009 * (+645) Created page with "[[Next Word Of The Week]] is a language you have to solve for, inspired by [[Final Word Of The Day]]. ==Specifications== # There is no [[Cat]] containing under five commands. # The number of programs that output only <code>Hello World</code> or produce
20:02:35 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157081&oldid=157062 * Junkshipp * (+1339) /* Translation of PA sentences */
20:03:02 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157082&oldid=157081 * Junkshipp * (+1) /* Arithmetical operations - Method 1 */
20:04:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157083&oldid=157068 * Buckets * (+13)
20:04:24 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157084&oldid=157041 * Buckets * (+12)
20:04:45 <esolangs> [[Ctions]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157085 * Buckets * (+1954) Created page with "{{lowercase}} ctions is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022, Deriving from the Word ''functions'', but since It's not ''fun'', thus it's ctions. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | `a || Declare a Variable a. |- | ~b(
20:06:05 <esolangs> [[Ctions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157086&oldid=157085 * Buckets * (+10)
20:13:05 <esolangs> [[SPoCE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157087&oldid=154280 * Buckets * (-1)
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00:19:00 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157088&oldid=157073 * Zhil * (+12)
00:37:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157089&oldid=157083 * None1 * (+15) /* F */
00:38:02 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157090&oldid=156867 * None1 * (+68)
00:38:19 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157091&oldid=157090 * None1 * (+0) /* My Esolangs */
00:38:44 <esolangs> [[Fungraph]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157092&oldid=157059 * None1 * (+26)
00:39:43 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157093&oldid=155431 * None1 * (+43)
00:40:19 <esolangs> [[B (None1)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157094&oldid=157044 * None1 * (-3) /* Lua */
00:42:30 <esolangs> [[Liquid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157095&oldid=40939 * RobinsAviary * (+0) Fixed grammatical errors
00:47:35 <esolangs> [[Liquid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157096&oldid=157095 * RobinsAviary * (+0) /* Instructions, commands, syntax, etc. */ Gramattical error
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02:18:11 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157097&oldid=157082 * Junkshipp * (+7)
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06:51:53 <esolangs> [[Numeral]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157098 * Helpeesl * (+5285) Created page with "==Intro== Numeral is an esolang created by [[User:helpeesl]] on May 3rd<small>actually 4th</small> 2025 and uses every single type of numeral system. ==General symbols== *a+b addition *a-b subtraction *a*b multiplication *a/b division *+a magnitude of a *-a negation o
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10:14:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Luohoa97 * New user account
10:24:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157099&oldid=157043 * Luohoa97 * (+414)
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10:37:26 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157100&oldid=156402 * C++DSUCKER * (+360)
10:37:35 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157101&oldid=157100 * C++DSUCKER * (-44)
10:40:17 <esolangs> [[Aetherc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157102 * Luohoa97 * (+959) Created page with "# Aetherc The official Aether [https://aetherc.vercel.app website] ## Purpose Aetherc is a programming language to solve issues like bad syntax and the slowness of interpreted languages. Aether is a general purpose language like ''C'' or ''Lua''. ## Examples of Aethe
10:43:10 <esolangs> [[Aetherc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157103&oldid=157102 * Luohoa97 * (+75)
10:46:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157104&oldid=157089 * Luohoa97 * (+14)
11:01:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Aether]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157105 * Luohoa97 * (+126) Created page with "Is this a mere concept or a working language? ~~~~"
11:12:23 <fizzie> Ugh, some pretty weird scraper requests and user agents again, and _relatively_ high load, though not quite high enough to affect things negatively.
11:12:27 <fizzie> But, like, there's a request for `/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=146815&title=Eror?diff=prev&oldid=146815&title=Eror` (and the same pattern for some other titles, like `Bueue`, `User_talk:5anz`, and so on), and I would *hope* that no MediaWiki code creates links that have the CGI parameters twice, with two `?...` sections even.
11:13:48 <fizzie> And then there are some cases where the user agent has been... kinda duplicated too. There's "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/41.0.2228.0 Safari/537.36Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/24.0" and "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/41.0.2228.0 Safari/537.36Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT
11:13:50 <fizzie> 6.1; WOW64; rv:40.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/40.1" in there.
11:14:45 <fizzie> (Chrome 41, Firefox 24 & 40, and Windows NT 6.0/6.1 would be pretty ancient history too.)
11:20:12 <fizzie> And there was a big spike of requests for `/wiki/List_of_ideas/Archive/w/index.php?<...>` and `/wiki/List_of_ideas/Archive/w/load.php?<...>` that all just 404.
11:20:19 <fizzie> It all seems so counterproductive.
11:42:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157106&oldid=156939 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+221) /* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ new section
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11:54:19 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157107&oldid=157077 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+39) Added function len.
12:08:53 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157108&oldid=157107 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+52) Fixing BTC equivalement interpreter
12:11:43 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157109&oldid=157108 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+17) /* Parenthesys Solid */
13:18:49 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157110&oldid=157088 * Zhil * (-128)
13:46:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157111&oldid=153540 * Junkshipp * (+659) /* Try to Take */ new section
14:08:38 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157112&oldid=157101 * C++DSUCKER * (+94)
14:09:03 <int-e> well cool, https://www.speedrun.com/Space_Age?h=100&x=xk97qv6d is now empty (the record moved to https://www.speedrun.com/Space_Age?h=category-extensions-all-peaceful-achievements&x=zdnvex9k-ylpkqrr8.10v38x5l )
14:10:00 <int-e> (but that category is now easier because it actually allows peaceful mode instead of minimal non-zero biter settings)
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15:05:28 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157113&oldid=156912 * MihaiEso * (-2) /* Implementation */
15:50:39 <korvo> FreeFull: Same downsides as CloudFlare, more or less.
16:21:31 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157114&oldid=157110 * Zhil * (+753) Size busy beavers
16:23:33 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157115&oldid=157114 * Zhil * (-504)
16:40:20 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157116&oldid=157097 * Hakerh400 * (+5783) Add explanation
16:41:30 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157117&oldid=157104 * Pro465 * (+14) /* M */
16:44:20 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157118&oldid=157116 * Hakerh400 * (+13)
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18:10:44 <esolangs> [[JOrE's esolangs project]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157119 * JORE * (+309) Created page with "I'm just released a new project, '''Esolang Project'''. Currently, I only released [[Assembely] esolang. Soon, more details availible here. Feel free to chat with me about this project. '''Add comments, but do not delete them''' == User Comments == That's
18:10:59 <esolangs> [[JOrE's esolangs project]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157120&oldid=157119 * JORE * (+1)
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18:20:48 <ais523> <fizzie> Ugh, some pretty weird scraper requests and user agents again ← I just realised that they're probably using generative AI to guess URLs to scrape
18:21:36 <ais523> were the IPs spread out as usual, or were all the requests from the same place?
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19:05:37 <fizzie> Seemed pretty random, didn't look very closely.
19:15:28 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157121&oldid=157022 * H33T33 * (+461)
19:17:56 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157122&oldid=157121 * H33T33 * (+2)
19:24:27 <zzo38> The guess isn't very good, then. But, why is the user agent then made how it is?
19:35:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157123&oldid=157111 * Hakerh400 * (+132)
20:26:33 <esolangs> [[JOrE's esolangs project]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157124&oldid=157120 * Ractangle * (-22) moving the content to the talk page
20:26:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:JOrE's esolangs project]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157125 * Ractangle * (+48) Created page with "== User Comments == That's no comments for now!"
21:32:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157126&oldid=157123 * Junkshipp * (+173)
21:32:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157127&oldid=157126 * Junkshipp * (+1)
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22:29:37 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157128&oldid=155810 * Junkshipp * (+181)
22:30:34 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157129&oldid=157128 * Junkshipp * (+1)
22:48:07 <esolangs> [[H.L.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157130 * Buckets * (+16) Redirected page to [[HL]]
22:49:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157131&oldid=157117 * Buckets * (+9)
22:50:04 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157132&oldid=157084 * Buckets * (+8)
22:50:27 <esolangs> [[HL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157133 * Buckets * (+4399) Created page with "HL(, or By it's full name, ''H.L.'') is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | -[[PageA]]+[[PageB]] || Count The links from [[PageA]] and Add them to the number of links of [[PageB]]. |-
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02:53:14 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157134&oldid=157091 * None1 * (+68)
04:02:26 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157135 * PkmnQ * (+1810) Wanted to do this for a while
04:47:45 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157136&oldid=157135 * PkmnQ * (+3467) Two more hypercomputable brainfuck derivatives
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06:45:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/TCP1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157137&oldid=157005 * Cycwin * (+402) Is it wrong?
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11:42:45 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sfb * New user account
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13:06:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Son of a BitCh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157138 * Cycwin * (+1436) why dont you do that?!
13:47:07 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/TCP1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157139&oldid=156978 * Cycwin * (+1596) /* Computational class */
13:49:09 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/TCP1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157140&oldid=157139 * Cycwin * (+0) /* Another proof */
13:59:22 <esolangs> [[Topple]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157141&oldid=156985 * H33T33 * (+7)
14:00:59 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/TCP1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157142&oldid=157140 * Cycwin * (+20) /* Another proof */
14:04:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157143&oldid=156188 * Cycwin * (+96) /* proof of TCP1 */ new section
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14:05:50 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157144&oldid=157141 * H33T33 * (+223)
14:07:59 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157145&oldid=157144 * H33T33 * (+1) /* Hello ,world! */
14:09:12 <esolangs> [[Topple]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157146&oldid=157145 * H33T33 * (-1) /* Hello, world! */
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15:27:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157147&oldid=157079 * Ais523 * (+841) /* Challenge */ some thoughts
15:28:14 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157148&oldid=156955 * Aadenboy * (+197) fix number, third example, and usage
16:01:53 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157149&oldid=157109 * Hakerh400 * (+17) /* Parenthesys Solid */ Fix rendering
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16:48:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157150&oldid=157143 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+96)
16:49:21 <esolangs> [[Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157151&oldid=157078 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-128) /* Examples */
16:50:17 <esolangs> [[Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157152&oldid=157151 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-39) /* Memory-mapped I/O */
16:52:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forthrooms]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157153 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+130) Created page with "Can someone make a Forthrooms interpreter? ~~~~"
16:52:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157154&oldid=157153 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15)
16:55:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157155&oldid=157154 * Corbin * (+187) /* Request */ Not sure if this is what you were asking.
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19:09:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157156&oldid=157155 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+108)
19:31:57 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157157 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1168) Created page with "{{WIP}} ''';;;*++''' (pronounced "counting") is a functional/stack-based esolang by [[User:TBPO]]. == Execution == ;;;*++ has a tape of cells indexed from 1, each starting at 1, and a stack. {| class="wikitable" |+ Instructions |- | ! || Push 1 to the stack
19:33:06 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157158&oldid=157157 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+17)
19:54:07 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157159&oldid=157069 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-292) /* My esolangs */
19:54:35 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157160&oldid=157159 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-41) /* Other stuff */
20:18:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Accountnamed * New user account
20:22:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157161&oldid=157099 * Accountnamed * (+331) introduction
21:07:30 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157162&oldid=157146 * H33T33 * (+3) /* Hello, world! */
21:10:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157163&oldid=157131 * Buckets * (+15)
21:12:07 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157164&oldid=157132 * Buckets * (+14)
21:13:14 <esolangs> [[Qey Demo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157165 * Buckets * (+3149) Created page with "Qey Demo is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. Qey's Ruleset: It has 32-bit signed Integers. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | > || Dequeue an integer from the front of the queue Into The register, If the Queu
21:13:44 <esolangs> [[Qey Demo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157166&oldid=157165 * Buckets * (+23)
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22:18:05 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157167&oldid=157067 * I am islptng * (+57) /* To-do List */
23:13:55 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157168&oldid=157115 * Zhil * (+0)
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01:22:22 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157169&oldid=157136 * PkmnQ * (-1260) Merge into one
01:26:06 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157170&oldid=157169 * PkmnQ * (-1) reconjugate verb
01:30:10 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157171&oldid=157170 * PkmnQ * (-27) Don't reset pointer
02:53:35 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157172&oldid=157171 * PkmnQ * (+1123) A non-bf-derivative this time
02:55:51 <esolangs> [[Shifted brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157173 * L4.m2 * (+824) Created page with "'''Shifted brainfuck''' is a [[brainfuck]] derivative which tells EOF well while reading. <code>+</code>, <code>-</code>, <code><</code>, <code>></code>, <code>[</code>, <code>]</code> work as original brainfuck. <code>.</code> outputs the current memory cell as
03:09:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Darshalcs * New user account
04:23:25 <zzo38> Now I implemented user authentication in my NNTP server. A newsgroup can require authentication for writing but allow anyone to read, or can require authentication for reading as well as for writing; I have two such newsgroups on my server (the others allow anyone to read/write and do not require any authentication).
04:28:03 <zzo38> For [4], the certificate will still contain an extension, with the public key to use for superseding (if different from the certificate's own key), and optionally the sources where the superseding file may be from. The superseding file is then a DER file containing signatures of the certificate with the superseding key and indicating which certificates supersede which other ones, by their hash.
04:28:16 <zzo38> Do you think this [3] and/or [4] is reasonable, then? Should other changes be made?
04:29:19 <zzo38> (These three messages have been written to the wrong IRC server; sorry. However, if you are interested you may try to answer anyways but it is unlikely to due a lack of a context.)
05:05:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157174&oldid=157150 * Cycwin * (+35) /* proof of TCP1 */
05:07:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157175&oldid=157174 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+96) /* proof of TCP1 */
05:35:40 <esolangs> [[Albuquerque challenge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157176&oldid=148472 * I am islptng * (-162) Golfed!
05:40:10 <esolangs> [[Albuquerque challenge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157177&oldid=157176 * I am islptng * (-4) /* interpretations */
05:43:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157178&oldid=157175 * Cycwin * (+105) /* proof of TCP1 */
05:44:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157179&oldid=157178 * Cycwin * (+5) /* proof of TCP1 */
05:46:53 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157180&oldid=157162 * H33T33 * (+4)
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06:44:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157181&oldid=157179 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+192) /* proof of TCP1 */
06:54:55 <esolangs> [[Gamma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157182&oldid=120988 * PkmnQ * (-26)
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12:19:21 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157183&oldid=157134 * None1 * (+8)
12:20:18 <esolangs> [[Look!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157184&oldid=138980 * None1 * (+5) /* External resources */ new online interpreter link
13:01:15 <esolangs> [[Stack whack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157185 * TomosCode * (+525) Created page with "Stack whack is a stack-based language which can be compiled to BF. == Instructions == {| class="wikitable sortable" |+ Instructions |- ! Name !! BF |- | (Number) || (+*Number)> |- | -(Number) || (-*Number)> |- | < || < |- | > || > |- | [ || [ |- | ] || ] |- | ADD
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14:46:47 <esolangs> [[Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157186&oldid=157152 * Hakerh400 * (+165) Add an interpreter
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17:46:41 <esolangs> [[User:Gapples2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157187&oldid=156768 * Gapples2 * (+703)
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19:34:22 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157188&oldid=157158 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+658)
19:35:15 <esolangs> [[Stactal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157189 * * (+1052) Created page with "Stactal is an esolang created by ~~~ for the sole purpose of hurting your brain. ==Fundamentals=== Stactal is a stack-based esolang where stacks can go on other stacks. To create a new stack, you input this: +1 This creates a new stack and assigns it the name 1. Stack names
19:36:16 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157190&oldid=157163 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+13) /* Non-alphabetic */
19:37:27 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157191&oldid=157160 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+16) /* My esolangs */
19:39:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157192&oldid=157156 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+31)
19:40:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forthrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157193&oldid=157192 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+125) /* Request */
19:41:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jodoktus * New user account
20:07:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dgt2016 * New user account
20:16:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Chloe * New user account
20:25:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157194&oldid=157161 * Dgt2016 * (+184)
20:26:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157195&oldid=157194 * Dgt2016 * (+47)
20:26:51 <esolangs> [[User:Dgt2016]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157196 * Dgt2016 * (+693) I'm good :)
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21:48:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157197&oldid=154087 * Aadenboy * (+668) /* computation without $# */ new section
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22:10:55 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157198 * Dgt2016 * (+2069) Created page with "==Introduction== '''ARLPLWAAWN''' (A Random Light-weighted Programming Language With An Absurdly Weird Name), also called ASNA (A Shorter Name for ARLPLWAAWN) is a esolang created in 2025 by [[User:Dgt2016]]. It's a programming language written in C++ and based off
22:15:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157199&oldid=157190 * Buckets * (+11)
22:16:17 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157200&oldid=157164 * Buckets * (+10)
22:16:29 <esolangs> [[JLOS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157201 * Buckets * (+2727) Created page with "{{lowercase}} jLOS is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. In the Y axis is Called a Channel, On the X Axis, it is called A Macaroni. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | A || Delete The Right Macaroni. |- | > || Move R
22:19:30 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157202&oldid=157198 * Dgt2016 * (+490)
22:20:01 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157203&oldid=157202 * Dgt2016 * (+21) /* Hello World */
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22:23:46 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157204&oldid=157203 * Dgt2016 * (+58)
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22:30:39 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157205&oldid=157204 * Dgt2016 * (+256) /* Hello World */
22:31:00 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157206&oldid=157205 * Dgt2016 * (+1) /* Compiler */
22:33:53 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157207&oldid=157206 * Dgt2016 * (+43)
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22:40:12 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157208&oldid=157207 * Dgt2016 * (+1)
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02:26:05 <esolangs> [[Tiger]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157209 * Corbin * (+395) Created page with "{{stub}} {{infobox proglang |year=1997 |author=Andrew W. Appel |class=Turing-complete |refimpl=Implement it yourself! }} '''Tiger''' is a pedagogical programming language designed to be implemented by students of compiler theory. It was introduced in the book [https://www
02:26:11 <esolangs> [[Lox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157210 * Corbin * (+378) Created page with "{{stub}} {{infobox proglang |year=2015 |author=Robert Nystrom |class=Turing-complete |refimpl=Implement it yourself! }} '''Lox''' is a pedagogical programming language designed to be implemented by students of compiler theory. It was introduced in the book [https://crafting
02:26:16 <esolangs> [[Monkey]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157211 * Corbin * (+369) Created page with "{{stub}} {{infobox proglang |year=2016 |author=Thorsten Ball |class=Turing-complete |refimpl=Implement it yourself! }} '''Monkey''' is a pedagogical programming language designed to be implemented by students of compiler theory. It was introduced in the book [https://int
02:27:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157212&oldid=157106 * Corbin * (+2) /* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ Fix links.
02:34:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157213&oldid=157212 * Corbin * (+758) /* Languages designed to teach us how to implement compilers */ new section
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08:25:21 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157214&oldid=141248 * JIT * (+204)
08:27:26 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157215&oldid=157214 * JIT * (+17) /* HTML */
08:42:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157216&oldid=156968 * B jonas * (+518) /* Relation to Underload */
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09:52:53 <esolangs> [[Persistent brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157217 * None1 * (+1137) Created page with "{{lang|a=User:None1|i=[[brainfuck]]}} ==Tape and pointer== It's tape and pointer are like that of [[brainfuck]], but they're persistent. In other words, they can be rolled back to history versions. Each time before a non-rollback command is executed, a new hi
09:53:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157218&oldid=157199 * None1 * (+27) /* P */
09:55:36 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157219&oldid=157183 * None1 * (+85)
10:32:58 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157220&oldid=155451 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-240)
10:33:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User:KapitanGamer/Sandbox]] to [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]]: Moving o
10:34:05 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157223&oldid=157191 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+5)
11:16:12 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157224&oldid=157221 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+267)
11:27:31 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157225&oldid=157224 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+284)
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11:31:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157226&oldid=157197 * PkmnQ * (+942) /* computation without $# */ Idea for a $#-less construction
11:53:31 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157227&oldid=157188 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+77)
11:53:52 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157228&oldid=157225 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+692)
11:54:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] to [[Interpreterion]]
11:54:42 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157231&oldid=157230 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-14) Removed redirect to [[Interpreterion]]
11:57:55 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157232&oldid=157229 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+192)
11:59:55 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157233&oldid=157223 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+110)
12:01:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157234&oldid=156172 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+34) Added accumulator-based.
12:02:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157235&oldid=157234 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-34)
12:10:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157236&oldid=157213 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+462) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */ new section
12:11:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157237&oldid=157236 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */
12:11:31 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157238&oldid=157232 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4)
12:12:32 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157239&oldid=157238 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1)
12:22:28 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157240&oldid=157227 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-77) /* Examples */
12:41:49 <esolangs> [[Stack whack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157241&oldid=157185 * TomosCode * (+1)
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12:51:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:I/M Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157242 * PkmnQ * (+1068) Created page with "== Periodic program decider == The <code>|</code> variation of Infinite I/M Machine is not Turing complete, as its halting problem can be decided. Let's say the program is <code>A | B</code>. Then: # Run <code>A</code> once. If it has already halted, the program
12:56:52 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge/Interpreter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157243 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3568) Created page with "Python implementation, without input: <pre> from random import randint import os.path import sys # GLOBAL VARIABLES grid = [] x = 0 # X COORDINATE OF POINTER y = 0 # Y COORDINATE OF POINTER direction = "right" # CURRENT DIRECTION OF MOTION st
12:58:01 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge/Interpreter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157244&oldid=157243 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21)
12:59:51 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157245&oldid=156766 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+101)
13:00:32 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157246&oldid=157245 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-3) /* Truth machine ("if ascii code of input is even" version; with stack clogging) */
13:03:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157247&oldid=157233 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+140) /* My esolangs */
13:04:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157248&oldid=157247 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-10) /* My esolangs */
13:04:37 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157249&oldid=157240 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+7)
13:06:24 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157250&oldid=157239 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-12) /* Execution */
13:06:50 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157251&oldid=157250 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-63) /* Implementation notes */
13:08:35 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157252&oldid=157251 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+2) /* Execution */
13:09:21 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157253&oldid=157252 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* Syntax */
13:15:36 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157254 * LillyHStClaire * (+3275) Created PAC-PI page
13:17:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157255&oldid=157218 * LillyHStClaire * (+13) added PAC-PI to the list
13:42:32 <esolangs> [[Stactal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157256&oldid=157189 * * (+231)
13:47:00 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157257&oldid=155979 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1218)
13:47:26 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157258&oldid=157168 * Zhil * (+585)
13:47:32 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157259&oldid=157257 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15)
13:48:36 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157260&oldid=157248 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+34) /* My esolangs */
13:49:11 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157261&oldid=157249 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+16)
13:49:16 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157262&oldid=157254 * LillyHStClaire * (-8) Remove unnecessary NOP from NOT algorithm
14:10:37 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157263&oldid=157262 * LillyHStClaire * (+70) added EX register
14:13:52 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157264&oldid=157263 * LillyHStClaire * (+9) Made OT readonly
14:14:51 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157265&oldid=157264 * LillyHStClaire * (+1) made OT writeonly =.=
14:20:54 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157266&oldid=157265 * LillyHStClaire * (+10) simple clarification
14:29:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157267&oldid=152898 * * (+16) /* My esolangs */
14:29:21 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157268&oldid=156759 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+739)
14:30:41 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157269&oldid=157172 * PkmnQ * (+1218) Add [[Try to Take]] (and change first codeblock to use <pre> tags)
14:33:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:I/M Machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157270&oldid=157242 * PkmnQ * (+75) sign
14:33:17 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157271&oldid=157258 * Zhil * (+1)
14:33:34 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157272&oldid=154482 * PkmnQ * (+102) Add [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]]
14:33:39 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157273&oldid=157268 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15)
14:33:56 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157274&oldid=157273 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-12) /* Implementation */
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14:51:37 <esolangs> [[Unrandom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157275&oldid=156594 * Krolkrol * (-79)
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15:26:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157276&oldid=157226 * Aadenboy * (+594) /* computation without $# */
15:28:51 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157277&oldid=157266 * LillyHStClaire * (+16) Add nop's back in, miscounted
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16:20:19 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157278&oldid=157277 * LillyHStClaire * (+437) Add categories, link to implementation, and other minor changes.
16:21:52 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157279&oldid=157278 * LillyHStClaire * (+0) fix capitalization of Category:Self-modifying
16:22:21 <esolangs> [[PAC-PI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157280&oldid=157279 * LillyHStClaire * (+16) Add overview header
16:27:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157281&oldid=156767 * Hotcrystal0 * (+302) /* PrySigneToFry */ new section
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16:56:52 <esolangs> [[Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157282&oldid=156903 * Aadenboy * (+232) /* Syntax */ maybe clearer language
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17:21:09 <esolangs> [[Stactal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157283&oldid=157256 * Hotcrystal0 * (-27) Removing user talk and un-hiding user
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17:27:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157284&oldid=157270 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+151) /* Periodic program decider */
17:31:31 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157285&oldid=157274 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+120)
17:31:52 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157286&oldid=157285 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* Computational class */
17:32:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157287&oldid=155133 * Hotcrystal0 * (+680)
17:33:35 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157288&oldid=157286 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+71) /* Relationship to InterpretMe */
17:35:08 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157289&oldid=157288 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+17) /* Implementation */
17:36:10 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157290&oldid=157289 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* Implementation */
17:37:45 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157291&oldid=157290 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+46) /* Implementation */
17:41:05 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157292&oldid=157260 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+28) /* My esolangs */
17:45:42 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157293&oldid=157246 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+229)
17:46:01 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157294&oldid=157293 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-1)
17:46:20 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157295&oldid=157294 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1)
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18:15:27 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157296&oldid=157261 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+875)
18:16:02 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157297&oldid=157271 * Zhil * (-5)
18:24:55 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157298&oldid=157297 * Zhil * (-231) Cleaned up language around weak reduction
18:25:21 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157299&oldid=157298 * Zhil * (-7)
18:26:08 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157300&oldid=157299 * Zhil * (-48)
18:26:45 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157301&oldid=157296 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2)
18:27:19 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157302&oldid=157301 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+30)
18:27:42 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157303&oldid=157292 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+13)
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19:04:09 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157304&oldid=157303 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+8) /* My esolangs */
19:05:31 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157305&oldid=157208 * Dgt2016 * (-2193)
19:12:44 <esolangs> [[I/M Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157306&oldid=157291 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+137) /* Infinite I/M Machine */
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19:27:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lucaz37 * New user account
19:31:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157307&oldid=157195 * Lucaz37 * (+144)
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21:16:29 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157308&oldid=157255 * Buckets * (+19)
21:17:01 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157309&oldid=157200 * Buckets * (+18)
21:17:19 <esolangs> [[Copy of a...]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157310 * Buckets * (+2663) Created page with ": ''The title of this article is not correct because of technical limitations. The correct title is actually infinity long and Cannot be perceived by Humanity And by Machine. '' For ease of use, This article and Everything else is going to go Use the wrong Name and
21:19:43 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157311&oldid=155747 * Buckets * (+0)
21:20:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157312&oldid=157281 * I am islptng * (+742) /* PrySigneToFry */
21:23:21 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157313&oldid=157309 * Buckets * (+108)
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22:03:32 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157314&oldid=157305 * Dgt2016 * (-746) Blanked the page
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23:10:43 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157315&oldid=156990 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+299)
23:13:06 <esolangs> [[2025!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157316&oldid=149345 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+69) /* Examples */
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00:09:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Dgt2016 * moved [[ARLPLWAAWN]] to [[Fava]]: I changed name to my lang :3
00:09:55 <esolangs> [[ARLPLWAAWN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157319&oldid=157318 * Dgt2016 * (-18) Blanked the page
01:07:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dgt2016]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157320&oldid=157196 * Dgt2016 * (-149)
01:14:32 <esolangs> [[Fava]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157321&oldid=157317 * Dgt2016 * (+346)
01:19:40 <esolangs> [[Shifted brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157322&oldid=157173 * L4.m2 * (+58)
02:26:38 <esolangs> [[FCompiler]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157323 * I am islptng * (+1496) Created page with "{{lowercase}}{{stub}} [https://tio.run/##jVZNb@M2ED1bv2KiYrES7BrJ9uYih0W7BYoWbbHopRB0UKRxTIemFIra2Cj2t6dvSEqWk6DtxZBG8/Fm3vDR3cntWvPd83PdNky3VJTJ005ppj/twJtk4ewJvwuDT8p0g8vyde@s6rIcVrWl9Col0zp8JLMhcTPrvtPKZen3aV5cl5fucLilNN1Q3RqnzMAwS@V11XVsmszAj481d44@/f7TJ2tbu6
02:26:58 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157324&oldid=156876 * I am islptng * (-3117) Blanked the page
02:28:02 <esolangs> [[FCompiler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157325&oldid=157323 * I am islptng * (+202)
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08:45:29 <esolangs> [[FCompiler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157326&oldid=157325 * I am islptng * (+1870)
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08:56:13 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157327&oldid=157302 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+93) /* Implementation */
08:56:22 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157328&oldid=157327 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-12) /* Implementation */
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09:09:30 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157329&oldid=157167 * I am islptng * (+190)
09:15:20 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157330&oldid=157304 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+817)
09:15:56 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157331&oldid=157330 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) /* Users */
09:17:12 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge/Interpreter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157332&oldid=157244 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+51)
09:27:46 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157333&oldid=157149 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+451) /* Examples */
09:27:55 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157334&oldid=157333 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* plushie-completeness proof */
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11:41:53 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157335&oldid=157334 * JIT * (+0)
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12:26:41 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157336&oldid=155195 * JIT * (-298)
12:27:39 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157337&oldid=157336 * JIT * (+298) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157336|157336]] by [[Special:Contributions/JIT|JIT]] ([[User talk:JIT|talk]])
12:55:41 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157338&oldid=157331 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+5) /* Users */
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13:53:27 <korvo> Hm. I'm wondering if one of the other editor communities (on Discord?) saw the articles about historical metainterpreters, got confused, and decided that the only way to understand the concept is by creating their own metainterpreters.
13:55:08 <korvo> It occurs to me that there's two distinct ways of editing. The path I'm currently on is to build some stuff, and then document it if it could be interesting to others. Their path feels like some sort of land-grab or vanity publishing, where the important thing is to slap one's name onto territory.
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14:44:53 <ais523> korvo: I think that for those people, the act of editing is the output/creative step
14:45:15 <ais523> like, they're exploring esolangs live through the medium of wiki pages
14:45:58 <ais523> I'm not sure that all of them even know how to program, but in some sense, that doesn't actually matter – it's interesting that someone can be involved in esolang development without understanding programming, but in a way it makes sense
14:48:14 <korvo> ais523: Well, it helps when we recall that humanity has no idea how to use a computer.
14:49:11 <korvo> It also helps when we note that linguists have historically not only looked at formality as a technical curiosity but as an abomination which fundamentally can't describe natural languages.
14:49:45 <korvo> Combine those and you get the typical conlanger, who doesn't want to talk about maths or computation but otherwise thinks that they can describe the universe.
14:50:21 <ais523> "the ways in which natural languages differ from formalisations of them" is an interesting topic to study
14:50:55 <ais523> I think my speech is closer to matching a hypothetical formal grammar for English than most peoples' is, and i think that's a consequence of all the time I've spent programming
14:51:44 <korvo> I know that it's because I learned grammar trees as a child. Curiously, most of my cohort was presented with grammar too, but it didn't rub off on them.
14:52:16 <korvo> Programmers don't have the luxury of not using grammars.
14:52:19 <ais523> I am reminded of things like trying to put "only" in the exact correct location in a sentence to convey exactly the meaning I want
14:52:51 <ais523> that's quite reminiscent of programming in a golfing language
14:52:52 <korvo> I recently saw somebody complain that "technical", as used by computer-touchers, isn't well-defined. It's actually quite simple: to be technical is to be shallow and pedantic, to only care about details, to be incapable of assembling a big picture without noticing every brush stroke.
14:53:01 <korvo> And of course, that's precisely what a computer demands.
14:53:36 <korvo> Sure. Non-programmers who learn Lojban have to do a similar thing for placement of {po'o}; it's a wider phenomenon.
14:53:57 <ais523> I have been playing a lot of nomic recently, one of the skills in that game is to correctly interpret English sentences that may have been incorrectly written, and produce an exact pedantic meaning from them even if it wasn't the meaning that was intended
14:57:35 <korvo> This is a very interesting philosophical difference between us! I prefer playing when the system has goal or win conditions, or when comparison is possible, but otherwise I'm not interested. And I feel that way despite usually being near the bottom of the leaderboard.
14:58:17 <korvo> Nomic and similar systems are immediately not interesting; of course there's no context-free denotative semantics for languages like English, and so the resulting game is going to be wild in a way which doesn't have goals, winning, or comparisons.
14:58:56 <ais523> well, nomic as a game normally explicitly does have win conditions, written in English – even if there isn't one explicitly, there's always the inherent win condition of "change the rules to add a win condition, then achieve it"
14:59:34 <ais523> but it often turns into a game that's more about arguing how to interpret the rules than it is about actually trying to win by following the surface meaning of the rules
15:00:16 <korvo> Right. The metagame is rather obvious. Suppose I can do more pushups than my peer, but they can outrun me; those prior comparisons are easily converted into preferences for how the rules ought to evolve.
15:00:48 <korvo> If we instead act from behind a veil of ignorance, then the game becomes too symmetric for analysis, and it's purely about which player has the strongest rhetoric.
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15:00:54 <ais523> indeed – the second-level metagame that evolves from that is less obvious, though
15:01:31 <ais523> I'm still not sure I (or anyone else) has really figured out that second level despite years of trying
15:02:00 <korvo> Nah, it's the same metagame that we play in the workplace or any other social group, and it's IMO fairly well-described by Gervais theory. For Nomic, the relevant dialect is Powertalk, the rhetoric of establishing what is known by each player and what can be bargained.
15:02:52 <korvo> I happen to be a lifelong Loser, and perhaps that's why I don't care for Nomic. I *could* be a Sociopath, and sometimes I do that in order to get shit done, but fundamentally I understand that Sociopaths are harmful to society at large.
15:03:35 <korvo> (Reminder: the topic is the perennial observation that the wiki seems to be treated as a graffiti wall by a large segment of contributors.)
15:03:40 <ais523> so there's a common metastrategy in nomic, sometimes called "pooling", where a set of players cooperate in order to cause one of those players to win, at the expense of the others – in many cases the choice of who will win is decided at random
15:04:09 <korvo> Sure. The corresponding sociological pattern is called "tontine".
15:04:12 <ais523> say two people pool, and decide they have a 90% chance for the pool to win but a less than 45% chance for either player to individually win, that makes it rational
15:05:27 <ais523> but, many people (including me) find this an uninteresting way to play because it tends to obviate all other strategies except "scamming" (exploiting non-obvious wording mistakes in the rules in order to get a large advantage, typically an instant win)
15:05:40 <ais523> so, it's common to add rules to make pooling more difficult or less beneficial
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15:08:18 <ais523> the whole thing with the wiki is complicated because it is hard to say that the "low-effort" (as it were) contributions are invalid or unwanted – it's engaging with esolangs primarily/purely as an art form but that's a valid way to interact with them
15:08:51 <ais523> I think the ideal fix would involve somehow making the higher-effort contributions more searchable
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15:09:54 <korvo> Of course. Similarly, I think I've said before that graffiti is art. It's also politically important, as it indicates to leadership what the common people think of their opinions.
15:10:41 <ais523> I don't think I've made many esolangs purely as art
15:10:45 <korvo> Note that it is fairly straightforward to figure out whether something is a language. In that sense, we shouldn't really have trouble deciding whether submissions are invalid.
15:11:10 <ais523> there's Forte for which the aesthetics are important
15:11:16 <korvo> Art is never pure. Art is cultural warfare. Art is expression of a meme within a contextual sea of memes.
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15:11:47 <ais523> ah, I personally see art as an attempt to communicate things that can't easily be stated directly
15:12:05 <korvo> Monte is art. It's ugly, baroque, and nonetheless terser, faster, and safer than Python or F♯, and that's the memetic statement we wanted to make.
15:12:51 <ais523> I agree that it can be very dependent on context, though (and even when it isn't obviously dependent on context, is normally dependent on being perceived by a human)
15:13:24 <korvo> Oh, "art" isn't a monosemous collection or relation. Rather, whenever we have memetic expression on some substrate, we could say that those memes are art.
15:13:35 <ais523> fwiw I think even the "than Python or F♯" part of your sentence is art in its own way
15:14:12 <ais523> there is meaning in juxtaposing those two languages in particular, as most programmers typically wouldn't consider them similar enough to be included in the same comparison
15:15:08 <int-e> hmpf, I guess it's hard to overload && and keep short-circuit evaluation. https://z3prover.github.io/api/html/namespacez3.html#aff9c56735ebfc47895ef746515c09096
15:15:45 <ais523> int-e: indeed, you would need an overload feature that works for control flow operators, not just arithmetic operators
15:16:04 <int-e> (solution was to do a && bool(expr) instead of a && expr)
15:16:30 <ais523> it is probably possible to make something like that work via having a language that "lazifies" arguments based on what function/method/operator is being caled
15:16:43 <int-e> ais523: Yeah I know. The complaint is really that it looked so innocent in the source code :-)
15:16:49 <ais523> but it is also probably clearer to explicitly wrap the possibly-unevaluated arguments in closures
15:18:26 <korvo> ais523: FWIW the conlang community has long recognized the idea of artlangs and recognizes that there's a fairly dramatic difference between e.g. loglangs and artlangs.
15:18:30 <int-e> Oh well, at least I didn't spend terribly long debugging this, just a few minutes.
15:18:46 <korvo> There would not be much shame in recognizing that some of the wiki is dedicated to logic and some to art.
15:19:08 <ais523> Perl and Tcl both support user-defined subroutines that accept blocks as arguments, and can decide how much to evaluate them
15:19:25 <ais523> korvo: indeed, and in some cases the lines blur
15:19:36 <ais523> but there are more cases where it's clearly separate
15:19:38 <korvo> Meanwhile I remain genuinely puzzled about the existence of [[language list]]. I recognize that we're not beholden to English WP's expectations about database use (hence all the redirects) but I still think that such a large manually-curated page is an antipattern.
15:20:12 <ais523> it made more sense in the past, when there were fewer languages on the wiki
15:20:16 <korvo> ais523: Alternatively, consider: Perhaps the art of e.g. Lojban is that the meme being expressed to society is logical structure itself.
15:20:50 <ais523> I do find that it's in some sense a useful filter of effort – if people can't be bothered to even add their language to the list it says something about how much effort they think it's worth
15:20:51 <korvo> I think "loglang" is a fairly well-delineated category which happens to include most proglangs.
15:21:17 <korvo> Sure. And that's why I don't add my languages to the list; I don't think that anybody else should actually use my work.
15:22:04 <ais523> "use" is a loaded verb here
15:22:24 <ais523> there are some languages that aren't really intended to be programmed in, but instead need to exist for some other reason (e.g. producing proofs)
15:22:36 <korvo> No, not really. I think that reading about my work could be interesting, but actually using anything I've designed or built is folly.
15:22:52 <korvo> Do you use any of my languages in that way?
15:23:41 <ais523> so far I haven't – but that's at least partly because I've been struggling with mental health since before I met you, so I haven't really had the mental bandwidth to look at anyone else's esolangs in much detail
15:24:03 <korvo> I have a fairly straightforward point. I suspect that you're not thrilled to learn that I don't care about myself or my creative output.
15:24:37 <korvo> Oh, don't worry about that. I was born mad and time hasn't really helped. I'm not here to judge, I'm here to improve the wiki.
15:25:27 <ais523> all this reminds me of an esolang that I've been meaning to document for a while
15:25:44 <ais523> it's not clearly useful for anything, other than being a TCness proving challenge, and exists mostly because of an aesthetic goal
15:39:49 <esolangs> [[Symmetric Echo Tag]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157339 * Ais523 * (+1754) an idea I've had for a while and probably ought to document
15:40:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157340&oldid=157308 * Ais523 * (+25) /* S */ Symmetric Echo Tag
15:44:36 <ais523> I've posted it, anyway – it's lower-effort than many of my languages, but may have value in not being obviously Turing-complete nor obviously Turing-incomplete
15:51:14 <korvo> I appreciate your effort. Thanks for sharing.
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16:29:59 <esolangs> [[Symmetric Echo Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157347&oldid=157339 * Hakerh400 * (+181) Implement
16:32:34 <ais523> (I was expecting someone to do that… just not that quickly)
16:33:14 <ais523> and to clarify, because English is ambiguous sometimes: "expecting" in the sense of "I thought it would happen" rather than "I thought it should happen"
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16:56:21 <esolangs> [[Bobble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157349&oldid=157122 * H33T33 * (+0) /* Hello, World! */
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17:09:14 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157350&oldid=157338 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+51) /* Users */
17:09:37 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157351&oldid=157350 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+39) /* Users */
17:11:52 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157352&oldid=157351 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* Users */
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17:50:48 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kyrsig * New user account
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18:27:56 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157353&oldid=157352 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+174) /* Announcement */
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19:20:18 <esolangs> [[Interpreter modification]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157354 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+748) Created page with "'''Interpreter-modifying''' is a concept invented by [[User:TBPO]], through it was used a few times before. An interpreter-modifying esoteric programming language is an esolang that can modify the way it interprets the code in runtime. A basi
19:20:59 <esolangs> [[Interpreter modification]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157355&oldid=157354 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+30)
19:25:34 <esolangs> [[FAGI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157356 * Lucaz37 * (+3102) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=FAGI |author=[[Lucaz37]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |memsys=Both Cell-based and Stack-based |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |files=<code>.fagi</code>, <code>.fg</code> }} THIS IS STILL WORK IN PR
19:27:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[Interpreter modification]] to [[Interpreter-modifying]]: Misspelled title
19:29:01 <esolangs> [[Candrabindu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157359 * * (+739) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title= }} '''''' is a stack-based esolang using diacritics. There are 52 different stacks, one for each letter uppercase or lowercase. The operation to perform is based on the diacritic on the letter. {| class="wikitable" |+ Commands |- | || Pushes a 1 onto t
19:33:17 <esolangs> [[Candrabindu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157360&oldid=157359 * * (+145)
19:43:39 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157361&oldid=157357 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4)
20:26:06 <esolangs> [[BrainGuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157362&oldid=118911 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+438) Introduced an examples section comprehending one incipial member in a restricted reverse cat program.
20:27:34 <esolangs> [[BrainGuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157363&oldid=157362 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+187) Marked the original interpreter as expired and added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub.
20:27:58 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157364&oldid=157361 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+46)
20:29:51 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157365&oldid=157364 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+10)
20:33:50 <esolangs> [[Candrabindu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157366&oldid=157360 * * (+167)
20:34:25 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157367&oldid=157253 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+13) /* Implementation notes */
20:41:13 <esolangs> [[Forever]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157368 * Helpeesl * (+2010) Created page with "==Intro== Forever is an esolang created by [[User:Helpeesl]] on May 8th 2025ad designed to have really long programs without doing stuff like [[Lenguage]](i.e. not using an instruction set thats tied to the length of the line/program). ==Commands== The commands were de
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20:42:26 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157369&oldid=157367 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+45) /* Implementation notes */
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22:18:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157370&oldid=157340 * Buckets * (+11)
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22:19:35 <esolangs> [[Ttem]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157372 * Buckets * (+1191) Created page with "{{Stub}} Ttem is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | [ || Start a set. |- | ] || End a set. |- | + || +1. |- | - || -1. |- | , || A comma for the set. |- | ! || Instruct. |} Ttem was
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23:39:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157378&oldid=157181 * I am islptng * (+714) /* Rating */ new section
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08:04:23 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157388&oldid=157215 * JIT * (+66)
08:09:29 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157389&oldid=157388 * JIT * (+59)
08:09:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157390&oldid=157387 * I am islptng * (+29) /* Maybe a good rule... */
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11:17:48 <esolangs> [[GML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157393&oldid=122164 * B jonas * (+2554)
11:22:10 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157394&oldid=156938 * B jonas * (+139) /* Languages */
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16:55:38 <b_jonas> I have a question. I just tried to describe at https://esolangs.org/wiki/GML#Concatenative_calculus_as_a_special_case that there's this very simple subset of GML that implements concatenative (stack-based) calculus. All you need is lexically local bindings that you can load and push, or pop and bind to a new one, abstraction braces that create a new closure with the given body but saves the upvalues
16:55:44 <b_jonas> from the current environment in the closure (this is set!less so it doesn't matter if you save them by reference like scheme does or by value) and pushes that closure, and an apply operation that pops a closure and calls it. The trick is that functions don't take an argument like in lambda calculus, but instead share the stack with their callers.
16:58:32 <b_jonas> I find this interesting because it seems like concatenative calculus was first published in 2001, while GML was first published in 2000. I want to be careful so I don't want to claim that GML pre-invented concatenative calculus. I know it's often hard to notice that there's a small powerful core language hidden inside your language if you only keep a few parts of it. This has happened to me with
16:58:38 <b_jonas> Consumer Society, where it took me about half a year after I started to think about it just how few parts the language needs to keep. And IIUC for Underload it took even more time to find them in a larger language.
17:00:44 <b_jonas> So what I'd like to know is, what's the earliest precursor for this combination to appear, the closures with lexically local bindings but stack-based? I don't know if something close enough to Joy was known before 2001, I'm new to this whole history. While GML as such obviously wasn't published before 2000, it is likely based on some previous languages, and some of them might be similar.
17:02:23 <b_jonas> To be clear, GML is larger than this core language: Joy is like lambda calculus is that every value is a function and the only thing you can do with a function is call it, whereas GML has the square brackets which let you distinguish a mark value on the stack from functions.
17:04:38 <b_jonas> The stack clearly existed before, PostScript has a similar stack and is clearly older. And lexically local bindings in closures also clearly existed before, such as in scheme.
17:06:59 <b_jonas> Or in lambda calculus for that matter. Both lambda calculus and postscript are in what counts as the prehistory of esolangs here.
17:07:54 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157399&oldid=157397 * H33T33 * (+29)
17:13:12 <korvo> b_jonas: I was actually going to ping you about this earlier. So, I don't know exactly when quotations came about; https://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Quotations says PostScript has them, and that'd be a good missing link between Forth and Factor.
17:14:19 <korvo> But everything aside from quotations is straight out of category theory and abstract algebra; they're from universal properties that are so common that mathematicians have started naming them. The main thing that computer scientists added was stack-based evaluation semantics, later justified by realizing that certain categories are (equivalent to) certain lambda calculi.
17:15:29 <korvo> I think that it might be good to start the page, "Kerby's concatenative calculus is ..." given the context you've documented.
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17:44:05 <b_jonas> korvo: postscript is relevant, it's not quite clear to me how naturally you could simulate this core language in postscript. there's also the inconvenience that running such code would probably have to heap-allocate a lot of objects, so in practice you could only run it in a non-old postscript interpreter so as to automatically free those objects with reference counting or some other garbage collection
17:44:11 <b_jonas> mechanism built into the postscript interpreter. but I think suitable garbage collection was of course already known at the time for lisps, they just hadn't put it into the postscript interpreters because it was supposed to run on cheap hardware.
17:44:42 <b_jonas> I don't understand the category theory part, or how Cammy is connected
17:47:14 <b_jonas> I think you may be using use postscript square brackets to create the closures like the GML square bracket, because that lets you save a reference to the upvalue everywhere a variable is referenced. and I think you can use dynamic local postscript bindings to reference variables that are bound at the same level, though I'm not sure which level of postscript you need for that
17:57:22 <korvo> The category theory is not hard, but it is kind of a mind-melter. Von Thun put it best: the syntax has a monoid, and the semantics that we intend to use also has a monoid. We just choose the monoid with unit "" and concatenation `++` because that's easy to think about.
17:58:04 <korvo> Except, uh, that monoid doesn't work for Joy. It works for Brainfuck! But Joy, Factor, etc. need to add whitespace. So clearly we're okay with syntactic monoids that add some extra characters.
17:59:09 <korvo> Cammy's monoid has unit `"id"` and concatenation `"(comp " + " ".join(args) + ")"`. Like in Joy, it's technically monoidoid, because the types need to line up.
17:59:28 <korvo> And then there's a relevant category-theory slogan: a monoidoid is a category.
17:59:33 <b_jonas> why is whitespace a problem? whitespace is a no-op, and there will be other no-op functions anyway
18:00:12 <korvo> Whitespace puts a lie to the idea that juxtaposition is how we concatenate the syntax. Like, given Joy programs "drop" and "dup", the concatenation would be "dropdup" but we actually want "drop dup".
18:00:46 <b_jonas> ok, then use strings (or even trees) of tokens instead of strings of characters
18:03:55 <korvo> That would be a semantics. Any kind of interpretation, even abstract syntax, would be a mapping. What we want is for every such mapping to be a monoid homomorphism, because then we can compose the mappings and always preserve this idea of juxtaposition leading to composition.
18:05:20 <b_jonas> sure, but at least a token list is just the easy part of semantics, one which we call syntax.
18:06:59 <korvo> I know. I'm merely trying to get across what Von Thun was seeing. It's not about parsing or stacks. It's about the idea that we can run one program after another, and what it means for the syntax to reflect that.
18:10:12 <korvo> b_jonas: Could I at least convince you that some languages *don't* have this nice property? Like, there are some languages s.t. there's *no* fixed syntax which will compose two arbitrary input programs (assuming their types already line up).
18:11:18 <korvo> Most industrial-usage serious-business languages fail this just because of how their compilers are defined. I suppose Java might be one of the exceptions.
18:26:20 <b_jonas> korvo: sure, it helps that Joy is concatenative
18:28:00 <b_jonas> hold on, this reminds me of something, let me find the reference
18:28:38 <korvo> b_jonas: Oh! Okay, so I think I get it. There's a really common meme in the catlang community: juxtaposition is composition. This is used to gatekeep; if the monoid isn't literally "" and ++ then it's not a catlang.
18:29:08 <korvo> And I'm just pointing out that this is reductive because obviously Joy's syntactic monoid requires whitespace too. It's a *fixed* whitespace, so everything still works, but it's not like Brainfuck.
18:30:00 <korvo> Also, like, juxtaposition is composition in Brainfuck but nobody seems to actually point this out. It's like a catlang has to have some specific heritage or it doesn't count, and I don't really like that treatment of what should be a mathematical property.
18:32:25 <b_jonas> http://www.madore.org/cgi-bin/comment.pl/showcomments?href=http%3a%2f%2fwww.madore.org%2f~david%2fweblog%2f2015-04.html%23d.2015-04-24.2292#comment-21587 explains that not only the movements on the Rubik's cube form a group, but something stronger is true: the visible states of the Rubik's cube (the information that's preserved if you take a color photo of all sides) forms a group, and this latter is
18:32:31 <b_jonas> not true for the 4×4×4 rubik's cube.
18:33:22 <b_jonas> I think a concatenative language is something that has a simple structure like this, where it's easy to see the whole state of the runtime, and that state forms a group with composing programs
18:33:32 <korvo> Ah, yeah. Cayley's theorem is a powerful intuition.
18:33:52 <korvo> Well, a monoid, not a group. Not every action is invertible.
18:35:39 <b_jonas> but I don't think the whitespace is a problem here, you can consider Joy concatenative even if you need to add a space between when you concatenate two programs. it's like you're building one of those super-fast rubik cube solving robots (there's way too many of them) and they have to wait a little between every too moves otherwise something in the machine+cube may break
18:35:44 <korvo> So, in that sense, Cammy is provably such a language. Cammy is what we call "initial in a certain category"; among everything with that property, Cammy always can be mapped into that thing.
18:36:21 <korvo> Brainfuck is also an example. The state of the machine is what you'd expect: the cells, the pointer, the input and output.
18:37:47 <korvo> Sure, the whitespace is acceptable. But for something like Malbolge or Bubblegum, there might not be a single fixed string template which glues together two input programs, even if their underlying VMs can do it.
18:39:32 <korvo> Reminded of my phrasing at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization#Monoids "By the folklore of concatenative languages, ... all of the concatenative and tacit languages would go in [a category for monoidal languages]."
18:42:41 <b_jonas> btw considering Joy a string of tokens works because all the questions that I asked still apply in interpretation, the representation with characters doesn't matter much
18:43:14 <b_jonas> (I might care about the concrete syntax for aesthetics of course)
18:45:35 <korvo> Yeah. But this also happens when the language wasn't designed for it. Application is composition (another fun slogan), so Unlambda has a monoidoid. IIRC the unit is "i" and composition is "`c" + p + q.
18:50:42 <korvo> b_jonas: Sorry if I'm being pushy about this. I just really want to avoid having three different articles about the same topic that have slightly different perspectives on the fundamentals.
18:51:48 <korvo> Also https://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Concatenative%20language says stuff like "In an applicative language, things are evaluated by applying functions to arguments. In a concatenative programming language, things are evaluated by composing several functions which all operate on a piece of data." Categorically, those are the *same thing*.
18:52:55 <korvo> (Because in a category an "argument" or "element" is just a special case of a function!)
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18:54:32 <ais523> I think BF only forms a monoid if you ignore the rule that the tape starts as all-zeroes
18:55:04 <ais523> because if you are composing two programs, rather than two program fragments, don't you have to zero the tape in between?
18:56:13 <ais523> for the composition to work, you have to generalise BF programs into BF subroutines (i.e. capable of taking input from the tape)
18:57:50 <korvo> Monoidoids are acceptable; Joy's composition is only defined when the types line up, and Factor also has stack-checking.
18:58:34 <korvo> It is not a problem to think of a BF program as having a type which indicates how its tape should be aligned (say, in the world where BF tapes don't loop!) and then requiring alignment in order to concatenate.
19:03:07 <korvo> ais523: Oh! The tape itself having all zeroes! Yeah, we're not doing Kolmogorov complexity. What we're getting at is the idea that a compiler is a homomorphism: a compiler can be defined in terms of the structure of the input language and will preserve that structure in its output.
19:03:54 <korvo> Lists are free monoids, so any time a compiler is storing something in a list, it's probably manipulating a monoid. Peephole specializers exhibit non-trivial monoids, for example.
19:05:52 * korvo trying not to be flowery
19:07:30 <korvo> The compiler might have to emit a prologue, epilogue, or harness. But the guts of the compiler, like some generic optimizer that operates on hunks of code, can still respect the monoid.
19:09:56 <korvo> ais523: Okay, actually, let's go with that route and consider a basic-block compiler. It usually will have a monoid which it uses to split blocks into pieces that don't interact with each other.
19:10:54 <korvo> And that's because there's a monoid. Given two basic blocks, we can merge them s.t. we take in all of the inputs, do all of the operations without any overlapping, and return all of the outputs. The unit is a do-nothing block with no inputs or outputs.
19:11:45 <korvo> *usually will have a pass, rather. The pass exhibits the monoid.
19:15:18 <esolangs> [[Candrabindu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157400&oldid=157366 * * (+361)
19:20:15 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157401 * * (+1416) Moved this page over from Candrabindu.
19:21:05 <esolangs> [[Candrabindu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157402&oldid=157400 * * (-1396) Redirected page to [[]]
19:27:23 <korvo> I gotta stop going on rants right when Europe wants to go to bed. Sorry, I'll be around later too.
19:27:41 <ais523> I believed "lists are free monoids" for ages, but think it's actually wrong: you can have an empty list as a list element
19:28:29 <ais523> free monoids are like lists, but they automatically flatten
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19:29:34 <korvo> Well, those are lists of lists. Different types.
19:30:40 <ais523> fwiw, I was wondering whether Rust functions F and G compose syntactically as (|x|{({\nF})(({\nG})(x))}) – I'm not quite sure whether Rust's identifier hygiene is up to it but it might be
19:30:57 <ais523> err, newline after F and G, not before, in case there's an unterminated line comment
19:32:05 <korvo> Probably, as long as stack behavior isn't a problem. In OCaml, that approach doesn't work, and it's why I had to port Cammy away from OCaml and to CHICKEN Scheme.
19:32:07 <ais523> Rust is very permissive with allowing things inside blocks that most languages only allow at top level, which is what makes me think it might actually work, but there's probably an obvious counterexample I'm missing
19:32:44 <ais523> type inference seems like it might be the largest problem, but if G forces a type on its argument, I think this will force the same type on its argument, and there are no other type inference problems
19:35:49 <korvo> Trying to remember whether `|x|{x}` can infer a general type. Like, can that be an &mut?
19:36:18 <ais523> yes, can be anything apart from an unsized type I think
19:38:08 <ais523> https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2024&code=fn+main%28%29+%7B%0A++++let+mut+a+%3D+%5B1u32%2C+2%2C+3%5D%3B%0A++++%28%7Cx%7C%7Bx%7D%29%28%26mut+a%29%3B%0A++++%28%7Cx%7C%7Bx%7D%29%28a%5B..%5D%29%3B%0A%7D
19:38:19 <ais523> &mut works, unsized types don't
19:38:58 <ais523> anyway, even though I'll probably be awake for a while, the shops will be closing and I need to go shopping
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20:50:18 <fizzie> Huh. Turns out fungot might have a Gmail account that I wasn't aware of.
20:50:19 <fungot> fizzie: that zippy appears to be an infinite-dimensional space, isn't it?)
20:51:04 <fizzie> I got a "your Google Account has not been used in at least 8 months" email, and searching for that in my email archives, there's a 2010 Gmail invite (I guess you needed one at the time to open an account), so maybe I (or fungot acting independently?) made one.
20:51:05 <fungot> fizzie: e.g. when using separate files, then run it check if the ending of a string is not empty
21:07:02 <esolangs> [[NoError]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157405&oldid=150116 * Brain Boy 53 * (+56)
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22:11:21 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets/OMC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157408 * Buckets * (+1729) Created page with "OMC stands for Other Mathematical Concepts. Core Sequence: 0,1,13... Have n Uniquely different items, The number for the core Sequence Is the longest Sequence as a number, The Sequence only has to follow 2 rules: # There Cannot be A sequence where the Same
22:23:30 <zzo38> Is there TLS library that you can mostly just change send to TLS_send and recv to TLS_recv in most of the program, that it can work with unencrypted connections as well? I also want to do my own handling of certificates (so the callback function only needs to extract the public key, or do nothing if the callback function decides that the certificate should not be used)
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22:59:33 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157410&oldid=157394 * Stkptr * (-45) /* Languages */ "syntactical monoid" is profoundly verbose for no benefit to the reader
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06:23:02 <esolangs> [[Burnlike]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157417&oldid=157416 * Truttle1 * (+3465) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157416|157416]] by [[Special:Contributions/Truttle1|Truttle1]] ([[User talk:Truttle1|talk]])
06:27:34 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157418&oldid=156530 * I am islptng * (-344) xdi8 is completely unrelated to esolang
06:46:23 <b_jonas> is there a programming language (imagine a variant of rust) that tries to follow what combinations of values boolean local variables (or the discriminants of enums) can have when they're used in conditionals to determine what combinations of code paths are possible, not just for optimization, but to determine what programs are valid? eg. you're using a variable that looks like it might be initialized,
06:46:29 <b_jonas> but you use it in a conditional that implies that a certain boolean is true, and that boolean can only become true if you passed through a code path that initializes that variable, so using that variable is allowed. of course this gets more interesting when it has to follow the combination of many flags through some complicated function with many loops and conditionals.
06:47:01 <b_jonas> of course you may need some sort of cut-off for this so the compilation time doesn't need to be exponential in the code size.
06:47:29 <b_jonas> I guess some of the computer-checked proof languages must do this.
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08:40:51 <ais523> b_jonas: I like that idea but don't know of one
08:42:15 <ais523> of course you can kind-of trick the optimiser into trying to do that in most AOT-compiled languages, and it may be possible to get a compile error out of it using failing link-time asserts that will be optimised out if the program is correct
09:22:29 <b_jonas> ais523: oh yeah, there was an old behavior in gcc that may have been a bug. Back then, the old C standard said that any integral typed *constant expression* with value zero could be implicitly converted to a null pointer of any type. But gcc considered something like (x - x) where x is an integer non-constant as a constant expression with value zero, so it allowed you to cast (x - x) to a null pointer.
09:22:35 <b_jonas> I think you could abuse this in some funny way but I don't quite remember how. Later gcc fixed this, and also some later C or C++ standard changed the rule that only a *literal* with integer zero value can be implicitly converted to a null pointer of any type.
09:23:35 <b_jonas> I think this was a bug only in C++ where you can detect if that implicit conversion is possible without an error if the conversion isn't possible, using function overloading.
09:24:05 <b_jonas> In C it was just what the gcc manual calls "your bug might be just our reasonable extension" or something like that
09:26:14 <b_jonas> These days with constexpr and consteval and template parameters and C variable sized arrays, gcc cares enough to track exactly which expressions count as constant expressions for the purpose of the language standard, so it won't have this kind of bug so easily just because the optimizer proves something constant.
09:28:23 <b_jonas> (and thus Rust's value generic parameters and all of zig was born)
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14:20:47 <korvo> b_jonas: The phrase to search for is "flow-sensitive typing", or just "flow typing". RPython does this, for example; when I try to translate a program, sometimes the toolchain will tell me that an impossible value was reached or that a string slice wasn't proven non-negative.
14:22:12 <korvo> like, `stop = length - CONST; slice = s[start:stop]` might fail to translate because the variable `stop` could be less than zero.
14:22:52 <korvo> So I must write `stop = length - CONST; assert stop >= 0, "cauliflower"; slice = s[start:stop]`. This is convincing.
14:23:31 <korvo> Similarly RPython won't allow dereferencing an abstract superclass, but it will let me access subclass variables and methods as long as I've proven it somehow.
14:23:53 <korvo> `obj.myMethod()` maybe not okay, but `if isinstance(obj, MyClass): obj.myMethod()` works fine.
14:23:56 <HackEso> obj.myMethod()`? No such file or directory
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17:34:58 <b_jonas> I find the representation of the JPEG format kind of annoying. It seems to be trying to merge two goals that are somewhat contradictory: that the JPEG writer can write the file in one pass without seeking even if it doesn't have much RAM, and that the reader can skip ahead and decode just parts of it. Because of this, the Huffman-compressed data, which should be most of the JPEG file, is encoded such
17:35:04 <b_jonas> that any 0xFF bytes have to be escaped, because 0xFF is an escape byte. So there are no length fields that let the reader skip ahead, instead to seek ahead you have to scan all the bytes to find 0xFF bytes, though you don't have to decode the Huffman data. The Huffmanized data format admittedly does have some bias that makes long strings of one-bits less common, but since it's a bit-aligned variable
17:35:10 <b_jonas> format, it can still appear.
17:36:51 <b_jonas> The original version of the format was designed in 1992, and it shows. There's a later replacement JPEG2000 that's much more capable in what it can represent, though I don't know how it represents them at bytes so I don't know if it has these contradictory goals. But very few programs actually adapted JPEG2000, and now it's basically dead because Webp got adapted as the new compressed image format
17:39:38 <b_jonas> I mean it makes sense that if nobody adopted JPEG2000 for 25 years then instead of adopting it later you design a newer file format that is hopefully better.
17:44:03 <int-e> Hmm aren't you forgetting JPEG XL?
17:44:36 <int-e> (status: killed by Google, at least as far as the WWW is concerned)
17:45:38 <esolangs> [[Foldy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157423&oldid=155300 * Squareroot12621 * (+8) Example programs are now === level 3 === instead of == level 2 ==
17:45:52 <b_jonas> I don't know what JPEG XL is
17:46:39 <int-e> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Chrome-Dropping-JPEG-XL-Reasons
17:47:52 <int-e> (More about the "killed by Google" aspect than about what it is... it compresses better than webp though.)
17:48:37 <b_jonas> "compresses better" isn't the only aspect that you have to evaluate
17:48:46 <int-e> at the same quality
17:52:39 <b_jonas> hmm, has anyone made a esolangs compressed image format yet? it sounds like someone in esolangs is bound to make one eventually. tom7 wrote that he wants to develop a video compression, but that's not ready yet.
17:53:38 <b_jonas> wait... I dimly recall something, where was that?
17:54:31 <b_jonas> oh... I guess you could consider it a compressed image format, but it's kind of terrible
17:55:24 <b_jonas> I was thinking of something that's more practical than that but is still related to the community
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17:55:49 <b_jonas> wasn't there one in IOCCC?
17:57:05 <b_jonas> yep, Fabrice Bellard of course, ioccc/2018/bellard
17:58:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157424&oldid=152492 * Hotcrystal0 * (+338) /* Baba Is You pack */ new section
18:02:29 <b_jonas> https://bellard.org/bpg/ is the full non-IOCCC version of it
18:03:09 <b_jonas> and https://bellard.org/ioccc_lena/ is the info page of the IOCCC version
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18:32:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157425&oldid=157424 * Aadenboy * (+324)
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19:22:32 <esolangs> [[Flowchart]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157426 * Aadenboy * (+3070) Created page with "Flowchart is an esolang created by [[User:Aadenboy]] directly based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowchart flowcharts]. == Structure == Flowchart works on a 2D space, with actions connected by lines. Programs start on the first <code>( )</code> node, of which i
19:23:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157427&oldid=157370 * Aadenboy * (+16) /* F */ add [[Flowchart]]
19:24:56 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157428&oldid=156947 * Aadenboy * (+69) /* my own esolangs */ add [[Flowchart]]
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21:53:14 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157429&oldid=157047 * RainbowDash * (+4693) New page hooray! I think i might be over doing it though. Gotta see how this looks might revert
21:53:26 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157430&oldid=157429 * RainbowDash * (+1)
21:54:10 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157431&oldid=157430 * RainbowDash * (+2)
21:55:17 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157432&oldid=157431 * RainbowDash * (-5)
22:01:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157433&oldid=157427 * Buckets * (+11)
22:01:27 <esolangs> [[File talk:Ldpl-logo.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157434 * RainbowDash * (+108) Created page with "cute little guy --~~~~"
22:01:48 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157435&oldid=157407 * Buckets * (+10)
22:02:01 <esolangs> [[Aivr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157436 * Buckets * (+2310) Created page with "Aivr(, or AIVR, Which stands for Advanced Interactive Voice Responce) is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | Say [] || From within the Square brackets, It will Speak it. |- | {} || F
22:09:09 <esolangs> [[Flow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157437 * Helpeesl * (+4958) Created page with "==Intro== Flow is an esolang created by [[User:helpeesl]] on 5/10/2025 ==Commands== The commands can be in many forms those being: *Two input forwards *Two input backwards *Two input neutral *One input forwards *One input backwards *One input neutral *Refrences *Others <b
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22:13:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157438&oldid=157235 * Helpeesl * (+28)
22:14:03 <esolangs> [[Flow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157439&oldid=157437 * Helpeesl * (+15) Forgot about this
22:17:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157440&oldid=157438 * Helpeesl * (+56)
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22:48:18 <esolangs> [[Category:Arch-based]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157441 * Helpeesl * (+22) Created page with "[[Category:Languages]]"
22:49:07 <esolangs> [[Category:Arch-based]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157442&oldid=157441 * Helpeesl * (+52)
22:49:55 <esolangs> [[Char]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157443&oldid=64658 * Helpeesl * (+24)
22:50:48 <esolangs> [[Doug]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157444&oldid=64567 * Helpeesl * (+24)
22:51:32 <esolangs> [[An arch is simply a curve.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157445&oldid=74182 * Helpeesl * (+24)
22:52:22 <esolangs> [[Force of Arch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157446&oldid=96902 * Helpeesl * (+23)
22:55:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157447&oldid=157440 * Helpeesl * (+27) Ill keep on adding the good stuff you forgot to give a category or removed
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23:03:29 <ais523> <korvo> `obj.myMethod()` maybe not okay, but `if isinstance(obj, MyClass): obj.myMethod()` works fine. ← I vaguely remember Java special-casing "if … instanceof …" like that when in checked mode (it doesn't treat it as a type system violation if you later use an unchecked cast)
23:04:26 <ais523> although I think there's an instanceof-alike that converts the type of an object reference to a derived class or returns null if it isn't of that type, making it possible to do an "if let" equivalent and avoiding the flow typing that way
23:06:04 <ais523> <b_jonas> hmm, has anyone made a esolangs compressed image format yet? ← https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/69930/paint-starry-night-objectively-in-1kb-of-code has a few
23:15:46 <b_jonas> "converts the type of an object reference to a derived class or returns null if it isn't of that type" => that's C++ dynamic_cast
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23:26:51 <ais523> b_jonas: it makes sense – I think Rust might have something similar in Any, but it's kind-of rare to use Any in practice because it doesn't do what people normally want it to do
23:36:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157448&oldid=157447 * Helpeesl * (+20) They forgot a couple
23:37:04 <fizzie> Those do not seem to be good (or discussed) categories. :/
23:38:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Arch-based]]": unapproved category this isn't an established enough data structure to need its own category and would be better as a list on the Arch page
23:39:06 <esolangs> [[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157449 * Helpeesl * (+51) Created page with "This contains a list of all derivatives of [[HQ9+]]"
23:40:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Sus]]": unapproved category: even if this is a useful enough set of languages to be worth categorising (but that needs discussion on [[Esolang talk:Categorization]]), the name is inappropriate
23:42:03 <esolangs> [[HQ9-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157450&oldid=148330 * Helpeesl * (+29)
23:42:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157451&oldid=157448 * Ais523 * (-131) please do not add categories to this page without discussion at least one clearly shouldn't exist, at least one but probably two are misnamed, and you added inappropriate commentary to the page in the process (the visible text on pages should not contain reference
23:44:32 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157452&oldid=157237 * Ais523 * (+477) /* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ reasonable but misnamed, and maybe the wrong set of languages
23:45:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157453&oldid=157452 * Ais523 * (+377) /* Making Category:Accumulator-based official */ mention the counter-based languages proposal
23:51:33 <esolangs> [[FHC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157454&oldid=118844 * Helpeesl * (+29)
23:52:28 <esolangs> [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157455 * Helpeesl * (+54) Created page with "This is a list containing all [[HQ9+]] based languages"
23:54:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HQ9+ derivative]]": unapproved category
23:54:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Helpeesl * moved [[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]] to [[Category:]]: Ingas
23:55:17 <esolangs> [[Category:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157458&oldid=157456 * Helpeesl * (-51) Blanked the page
23:55:54 <esolangs> [[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157459&oldid=157457 * Helpeesl * (+12) Changed redirect target from [[Category:]] to [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]]
23:56:54 <esolangs> [[Category:HQ9+ derivative]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157460 * Helpeesl * (+50) Created page with "This page contains all languages based on [[HQ9+]]"
23:57:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Helpeesl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157461 * Ais523 * (+880) please stop creating categories without approval
23:57:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:]]": unapproved (and implausibly named) category
23:57:48 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HQ9+ derivatives]]": unapproved category
23:57:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:HQ9+ derivative]]": unapproved category
23:59:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157462 * I am islptng * (+772) Created page with "I wonder where's your C in the username. Shouldn't it be "Pifricted" instead of "Pifrited"? BTW Do you want a signature like mine? I can get one for you. --~~~~"
00:06:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157463&oldid=157462 * Ais523 * (+403) r to ispltng
00:06:22 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157464&oldid=156778 * PrySigneToFry * (+20)
00:09:15 <esolangs> [[Category:Sus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157465 * Helpeesl * (+184) This is a reupload of a category that someone else made and was conspicuously missing from its place
00:14:39 <esolangs> [[Category:Counter-based]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157466 * Helpeesl * (+139) Created page with "This is a list containing all counter based languages Also [[User:ais523]] suggested this so if the delete this that is a little bit ironic"
00:15:05 <esolangs> [[Dreadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157467&oldid=131043 * Helpeesl * (+26)
00:17:39 <esolangs> [[LargeFish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157468&oldid=130583 * Helpeesl * (+26)
00:21:52 <esolangs> [[2Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157469&oldid=136379 * Helpeesl * (+27)
00:26:25 <esolangs> [[Category:Counter-based]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157470&oldid=157466 * Helpeesl * (+70)
00:31:19 <esolangs> [[Feed the Chaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157471&oldid=148151 * Helpeesl * (+27)
00:36:30 <korvo> ais523: Regarding class layouts: yes, if the class were still around at runtime then a checked mode is possible. RPython runs on a standard Python 2.7 interpreter for that purpose.
00:37:27 <korvo> As one might suspect, nearly all of the class is erased at runtime. The class name .__class__.__name__ is the only thing available and that's mostly for generic pretty-printing.
00:38:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157472&oldid=157461 * Ais523 * (+423) /* Please stop creating categories without approval */ you continued creating categories even though I asked you to stop
00:39:10 <ais523> hmm, that may mean that Python erases classes more thoroughly than Java or Perl do
00:39:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157473&oldid=157390 * Hotcrystal0 * (+296)
00:40:17 <korvo> I usually think of RPython classes as like Haskell typeclasses, Rust traits, or C++ multiple-inheritance classes. RPython throws away any information that isn't relevant to the shape of the vtables.
00:40:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Counter-based]]": although this category should likely exist, this category description page is not useful it doesn't precisely define which languages belong in the category and contains metacommentary and leaving the description page up encourages people to categorise languages into it potentiall
00:41:29 <ais523> korvo: ah, right – Java and Perl have a layer of indirection in which the object has a reference to the class and the class has the vtable
00:41:46 <esolangs> [[Category:Sus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157474&oldid=157465 * PrySigneToFry * (+9)
00:42:25 <korvo> Yeah. Whereas this is more like C++ casting. We can upcast so that an entire class hierarchy looks like a uniform algebraic data type, or we can downcast when we need to dig an instance variable out for a special case.
00:42:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Sus]]": still an unapproved category (with a bad name), recreated after deletion
00:43:01 <korvo> The object itself is a fat pointer, I think? So cool that I can just *say* that; twenty years ago, fat pointers would have been considered a horrendous waste.
00:43:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Category:Sus [create=sysop] (indefinite)]]": recreated after being deleted, not an appropriate name for a category
00:44:16 <ais523> I still don't have a good intuitive feel for the performance of fat pointers versus having a pointer from object to class
00:44:44 <ais523> the pointer-from-object-to-class will usually save memory because most objects have more than one reference and few have less than one reference, but it also introduces an extra layer of indirection
00:44:51 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157475&oldid=157464 * Hotcrystal0 * (+22)
00:45:09 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157476&oldid=157475 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
00:46:05 <korvo> Yeah. Fat pointers might be more compelling if they offered some useful functionality. I find it very cool that we can change the class/traits of an object merely by replacing half of the fat pointer, and I know that Rust strings use this sort of optimization.
00:47:02 <korvo> But Smalltalk-style become: is really about the limit of what can be done that way. I think that it is a powerful way to have a system where objects are *inside* of another system which routes them; today there's Kafka and k8s, but I remember Zope and Twisted Axiom too.
00:49:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157477&oldid=157425 * PrySigneToFry * (-75) Qu'vatlh.
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00:55:08 <esolangs> [[Free Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157478&oldid=157025 * PrySigneToFry * (+109)
00:56:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157479&oldid=157453 * Helpeesl * (+694) /* There are categories that exist but arent on here */ new section
00:59:00 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157480&oldid=156254 * PrySigneToFry * (+159)
01:06:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157481&oldid=157479 * Ais523 * (+573) /* There are categories that exist but arent on here */ how this happens
01:08:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157482&oldid=157477 * Aadenboy * (+75) hey could you not do that
01:10:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157483&oldid=157481 * Ais523 * (+859) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */ I don't think this is worth a category yet, but it may be in the future
01:12:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157484&oldid=157483 * Ais523 * (+562) /* Counter-based languages */ some thoughts about definition
01:18:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157485&oldid=157484 * Helpeesl * (+74) /* There are categories that exist but arent on here */
01:22:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157486&oldid=157485 * Helpeesl * (+89) This is my first time leaving a comment
01:28:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157487&oldid=157472 * Ais523 * (+517) /* How to sign your comments */ new section
01:32:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157488&oldid=157147 * Helpeesl * (+493) /* I have a question about the unnoticed categories */ new section
01:34:34 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157489&oldid=157432 * RainbowDash * (+0)
01:39:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157490&oldid=157488 * Ais523 * (+1444) /* I have a question about the unnoticed categories */ reply
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02:04:12 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Self-terminating powers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157491 * Aadenboy * (+12754) interesting math thing I found
02:04:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Aadenboy * moved [[User:Aadenboy/Self-terminating powers]] to [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]]: rename
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02:05:06 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157494&oldid=157428 * Aadenboy * (+41) /* anything else */ [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling powers]]
02:05:25 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157495&oldid=157494 * Aadenboy * (+1) /* anything else */
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02:49:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157496&oldid=157486 * Helpeesl * (+782) /* Poll about some potential new categories being added (ends June 1st) */ new section
02:55:01 <esolangs> [[Flow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157497&oldid=157439 * Helpeesl * (+9)
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03:49:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157498&oldid=157496 * Ais523 * (+282) /* Poll about some potential new categories being added (ends June 1st) */ decisions are normally made by discussion, not polling
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04:15:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157499&oldid=157473 * I am islptng * (+726) ???
04:27:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157500&oldid=157463 * I am islptng * (+278)
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05:03:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157501&oldid=157500 * Pifrited * (+195)
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05:27:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157502&oldid=157482 * PrySigneToFry * (+89) VerdanaVerdana ProYu GothicDotum
05:49:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157503&oldid=157502 * Ais523 * (-89) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157502|157502]] by [[Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|PrySigneToFry]] ([[User talk:PrySigneToFry|talk]]) please don't restyle other peoples' user pages against their wishes
05:50:25 <esolangs> [[Echo Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157504&oldid=115682 * Ais523 * (+25) /* See also */ +[[Symmetric Echo Tag]]
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08:08:01 <esolangs> [[Indicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157505&oldid=151699 * Gilbert189 * (-59) wow I had no idea what this is supposed to mean
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09:26:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157506 * PkmnQ * (+618) Created page with "Looking at things a bit closer, I think I can see a more specific pattern. The amount of self-equaling squares for a base seems to be <math>2^{\omega(n)}</math>, where <math>\omega(n)</math> is the number of unique prime factors <math>n</ma
09:37:26 <esolangs> [[Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157507&oldid=156481 * Neon * (-107)
09:38:30 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157508 * CreeperBomb * (+6039) Created page with "/* WikimediaUI Dark Mode * * Wikimedia Design Team 2019-2021 * Original authors: * - Volker E. [[User:Volker_E._(WMF)]] * - Alex Hollender * - MusikAnimal * - Carolyn Li-Madeo * - Jdlrobson * * Original at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
09:44:58 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157509 * CreeperBomb * (+1205) Created page with "/* * WikimediaUI Dark Mode * * Original authors: * - Volker E. (Wikimedia Foundation Product Design) * - Alex Hollender (Wikimedia Foundation Product Design) * - Ed Sanders * - MusikAnimal * * Last updated: 2020-04-24 */ // Load depen
09:47:13 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.js]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157510&oldid=157509 * CreeperBomb * (-1205) Blanked the page
09:47:49 <esolangs> [[User:CreeperBomb/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157511&oldid=157508 * CreeperBomb * (-297)
09:48:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:CreeperBomb/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157512 * CreeperBomb * (+286) Created page with "Note: makes logo evil ~~~~"
10:12:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Neon * uploaded "[[File:ASCII Table (suitable for printing).svg.png]]"
10:19:32 <esolangs> [[LargeFish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157514&oldid=157468 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-26) This lang is just variable-based.
10:22:24 <esolangs> [[Expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157515&oldid=156346 * Krolkrol * (-26)
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11:13:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:PUBERTY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157516&oldid=141380 * DifferentDance8 * (+153)
11:49:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157517&oldid=157499 * PrySigneToFry * (+627) /* */ new section
11:51:37 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157518&oldid=157476 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
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15:01:14 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157519&oldid=157518 * Hotcrystal0 * (+28)
15:02:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AndyShow1000000 * New user account
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16:58:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157520&oldid=157411 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+306) /* Rating */
17:00:44 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157521&oldid=157353 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+53) /* Users */
17:02:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157522&oldid=157520 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+107) /* Rating */
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17:12:47 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157523&oldid=157521 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-213) /* My esolangs */
17:17:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157524&oldid=157506 * Aadenboy * (+1342)
17:31:48 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157525&oldid=157365 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+934)
17:34:03 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157526&oldid=157523 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+28) /* Other stuff */
17:46:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157527&oldid=157498 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+525) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */
17:49:54 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157528&oldid=157259 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+48)
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17:58:05 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157529&oldid=157528 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-97) /* Implementations */
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18:33:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157530&oldid=156049 * PlaceReporter99 * (+0) /* Tests */
18:34:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157531&oldid=157530 * PlaceReporter99 * (+29)
18:40:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157532&oldid=157524 * Aadenboy * (+366)
18:47:37 <esolangs> [[lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157533&oldid=153622 * PlaceReporter99 * (+196) /* Lua Interpreter */
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19:18:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157534&oldid=157526 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+19) /* Other stuff */
19:19:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157535&oldid=157527 * Ais523 * (+1373) /* Proposed Category:Interpreter-modifying */ I think this would be more useful for readers as a list rather than as a category, and here's why
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19:29:31 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157536&oldid=157231 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+568)
19:30:23 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157537&oldid=157534 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Other stuff */
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21:42:12 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets/OMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157538&oldid=157412 * Buckets * (+567)
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21:44:10 <esolangs> [[Sipes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157539&oldid=151824 * Buckets * (+1)
21:47:26 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157540&oldid=157311 * Buckets * (+6)
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22:01:38 <esolangs> [[Snub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157541&oldid=156393 * Buckets * (+402)
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22:30:37 <esolangs> [[Sundays]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157542&oldid=152096 * Buckets * (+102)
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01:33:25 <esolangs> [[Zephyr ASDL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157543&oldid=156962 * Corbin * (+11) Also influenced Monte, unsurprisingly.
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03:40:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157544 * I am islptng * (+648) Created page with "Have a look at [[Underload]]. --~~~~"
05:15:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157545&oldid=157409 * None1 * (+334) /* What counts as a machine? */
05:53:26 <zzo38> What philosophy is that everything (physically, mathematically, or otherwise) exists but only in relation to everything else that exists, and these relations also exist but also only due to what can be related by them? (This is not quite what is meant by "relation" in mathematics or in logic though; it is a bit different. Also, by "can be related" I do not mean that there necessarily are any such objects.)
05:55:51 <zzo38> (I also mean that you could start with either the objects or the relations and that it does not matter which for the purpose of this philosophy.)
05:57:41 <zzo38> (Furthermore, it is not the same as the use of "exists" (or other terms) in more specific cases such as existential quantifiers in mathematics)
06:03:22 <zzo38> Looking at Wikipedia about ontology: Platonic says universals exist independently of the mind and of particular objects and Aristotelian says it doesn't. What I mean is different from both though; it allows a universal to exist even if there are no such objects, but nevertheless it is not independent of the objects or of anything else (even if it seems unrelated, it is ultimately related).
06:05:23 <zzo38> For example, numbers are not independent of other numbers or of such things as addition, multiplication, prime factorization, etc.
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06:18:30 <zzo38> (Although, maybe my explanations probably miss some things because they might not be explained perfectly as I intended to do.)
06:20:22 <esolangs> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157546&oldid=157415 * Truttle1 * (+65)
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06:31:41 <zzo38> (Although, such a "absolute ultimate existence" and "absolute truth" are not describable and expressible anyways; so we will have to do with such approximations of how you mean by philsophy instead.)
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09:45:04 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157547&oldid=157335 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* 99 bottles of beer */
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10:04:59 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157548&oldid=157547 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+367) /* Quine partial */
10:27:44 <esolangs> [[Parenthesys]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157549&oldid=157548 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+303) /* Quine */
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10:30:52 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157550&oldid=157537 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-114) /* Current strategy */
10:46:28 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157551&oldid=156259 * DigitalDetective47 * (+101) /* Looks Like */ add wikilang idea
11:05:52 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157552&oldid=157536 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+331)
11:07:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157553&oldid=157544 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+141)
11:09:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157554&oldid=157545 * PrySigneToFry * (+53)
11:13:41 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157555&oldid=157519 * PrySigneToFry * (+19)
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12:20:27 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157556&oldid=157525 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-619)
12:21:07 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157557&oldid=157556 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-3) /* Examples */
12:30:29 <esolangs> [[29]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157558 * JIT * (+1400) Created page with "29 is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 its a challenge from me to me to make a esolang in 29 minites {| class="wikitable" |- ! commands !! what it does |- | strat || start string |- | ned || end string |- | Estr d || store in d |- | p d || print d in ASCII |- | {d} || focus
12:47:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157559&oldid=157433 * JIT * (+9)
12:58:08 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157560&oldid=157389 * JIT * (+45)
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13:28:53 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157561&oldid=157369 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+93)
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14:10:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Neon * uploaded "[[File:Irma Logo.png]]"
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14:57:56 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157563&oldid=155631 * DigitalDetective47 * (-5) change site link
14:58:53 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157564&oldid=157557 * Aadenboy * (-67) reformatting into a list for readability
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15:03:42 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1325.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
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15:34:13 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157565&oldid=157551 * Ractangle * (-89) /* Looks Like */
15:35:09 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157566&oldid=157565 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Looks Like */
16:00:07 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157567&oldid=106151 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+258)
16:00:44 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157568&oldid=157567 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+89) /* Useful techniques */
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16:16:25 <esolangs> [[Iterate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157569&oldid=157282 * Aadenboy * (-281) /* Arbitrary memory */ rewrite with a link to [[arbitrary memory emulation]]
16:21:51 <esolangs> [[PascalFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157570&oldid=129635 * Aadenboy * (-3) fix double redirect
16:22:38 <esolangs> [[PascalFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157571&oldid=157570 * Aadenboy * (+3) never mind I am not redirecting all of these
16:24:16 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/a]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157572 * Aadenboy * (+29) Redirected page to [[User:Aadenboy/a]]
16:24:37 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/a]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157573&oldid=157572 * Aadenboy * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[User:Aadenboy/a]] to [[User:Aadenboy/b]]
16:24:44 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/b]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157574 * Aadenboy * (+29) Redirected page to [[User:Aadenboy/a]]
16:26:38 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157575&oldid=157564 * Corbin * (+263) Add some history. Sorry, you didn't invent this. Also, punctuation.
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16:39:15 <esolangs> [[NoError]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157576&oldid=157405 * Brain Boy 53 * (+245)
16:40:17 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157577&oldid=157568 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+521) /* Useful techniques */
16:42:40 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157578&oldid=157577 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Braindead Machine */
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17:20:36 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157579&oldid=157578 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+281) /* Braindead Machine */
17:22:56 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157580&oldid=157579 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+75) /* Braindead Machine */
17:30:04 <esolangs> [[Bad command or file name/No Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157581&oldid=132900 * JORE * (+1) /* Quine(I'm going to fool you with invisible characters, lol) */
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18:40:37 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157582&oldid=157555 * Hotcrystal0 * (+26)
18:46:58 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157583 * PlaceReporter99 * (+94) Created page with " Is an unimplementable programming language that does things that are impossible."
18:49:50 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157584&oldid=157575 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+279) /* Examples */
19:09:33 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157585&oldid=157552 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+35)
19:10:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] to [[Underchaos]]
19:10:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] to [[Talk:Underchaos]]
19:12:51 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157590&oldid=157550 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3)
19:14:43 <esolangs> [[Infinite golfing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157591 * JORE * (+2556) Infinite Golfing
19:25:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transfinity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157592 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+125) Created page with "Why it's classified as uncomputable? ~~~~"
19:30:22 <esolangs> [[Cbazyx]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157593 * * (+2684) Created page with "'''''Cbazyx''''' is an esolang based on Piet's method of running commands based on differences in color, applied to the alphabet. === Commands === The first letter always does nothing. Then the second letter calls an instruction based on how far you would need to rotate a Caesa
19:34:41 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157594&oldid=157587 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+259) Removed redirect to [[Underchaos]]
19:50:59 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157595&oldid=155993 * Aadenboy * (+23252) ehhhh.................
20:29:53 <esolangs> [[Cbazyx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157596&oldid=157593 * * (+253)
20:31:11 <esolangs> [[Cbazyx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157597&oldid=157596 * * (+27)
20:41:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zurek * New user account
21:18:08 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157598&oldid=157590 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2) Hehe, pronouns, also, if you misgender me, your character will be sent to a jail in CA Roleplay Ultimate
21:21:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157599&oldid=157419 * Zurek * (+125)
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21:29:35 <esolangs> [[User:Zurek]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157600 * Zurek * (+100) Created page with "= About Me = Hi, I'm '''Zurek'''! I'm here to introduce new esolangs. = My Esolangs = * [["Bosol"]]"
21:30:23 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157601 * Zurek * (+3049) Created page with "'''Bosol''' is an esoteric programming language designed by [[YourUsername]] in 2025. It features a compact set of registers and minimalistic stack and list operations, with a focus on character manipulation and simple flow control. == Overview == Bosol uses a small numb
21:30:56 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157602&oldid=157601 * Zurek * (-7)
21:32:28 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157603&oldid=157602 * Zurek * (+12)
21:32:48 <esolangs> [["Bosol"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157604&oldid=157603 * Zurek * (-7)
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23:29:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transfinity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157605&oldid=157592 * PkmnQ * (+771)
23:42:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157606&oldid=156423 * I am islptng * (+1186)
00:29:37 <esolangs> [[AME]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157607 * Aadenboy * (+40) Redirected page to [[Arbitrary memory emulation]]
00:43:26 <esolangs> [[Arbitrary memory emulation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157608&oldid=157406 * Aadenboy * (+910) a take on turing-completeness using ame. might be wrong
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01:51:06 <esolangs> [[WTF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157609 * H33T33 * (+2695) Created page with "{{WIP}} WTF is designed to be incredibly annoying and time-consuming to use. It is very similar to [[C]], but there are some very distinct differences that make it feel unusual to program in. =Overview= ===Commands=== {| class="wikitable" !Command !Description !Example(s) !
01:52:41 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157610&oldid=157609 * H33T33 * (+0)
01:54:06 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157611&oldid=157610 * H33T33 * (-11)
02:59:03 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157612&oldid=157563 * DigitalDetective47 * (+112) add esolang repository
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04:59:28 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157613&oldid=157611 * H33T33 * (+39)
04:59:40 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157614&oldid=157613 * H33T33 * (-1)
05:02:47 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157615&oldid=157614 * H33T33 * (+7)
05:14:49 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157616&oldid=157615 * H33T33 * (+108)
05:16:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157617&oldid=157490 * I am islptng * (+694)
05:36:18 <zzo38> I think D-bus isn't very good.
05:41:23 <esolangs> [[Staxueue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157618 * I am islptng * (+880) Created page with "<b>Staxueue</b> is an esolang created by islptng. It has a <b>stack-cross-queue (staxueue, or sxq for short)</b>. == The Stack-Cross-Queue == It's just, literally, a stack crossing a queue. Let's visualize it. a b c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 d
05:42:15 <zzo38> (Among other things, it uses XML and Unicode, and seems difficult to use customizable security and proxies.)
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05:51:18 <zzo38> (D-bus does have authentication, but I think this isn't the best way to do it. I think requiring strings to be UTF-8 and requiring them to be validated can also be problems, especially since a file name or other text might not be Unicode, and the validation takes time. I also do not like the working of object paths. There are other problems, too.)
06:25:15 <zzo38> (It does have some benefits though, such as using a binary format.)
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08:41:29 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157619&oldid=157583 * Ractangle * (-3)
10:34:58 <esolangs> [[User:Europe2048]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157620&oldid=134409 * Europe2048 * (+68)
10:42:46 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157621&oldid=157580 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-531) /* Useful techniques */
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11:20:29 <esolangs> [[Braindead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157622&oldid=157621 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-11) /* Techniques */
12:09:34 <esolangs> [[Bear]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157623&oldid=151375 * Headless-Axolotl * (+85) changed table formatting
12:20:20 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157624&oldid=157586 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+202)
12:59:21 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157625&oldid=157616 * H33T33 * (+119)
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13:31:57 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157626 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+570) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Codesick''' (''COncatenate, DEreference and StrIng-cheCK'') is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]] when they was sick from coding too long. It's an [[OISC]], but instead of bits or numbers, there are... strings. == Memory == There is an infinie namespace
13:45:31 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157627&oldid=157626 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+547)
14:35:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157628&oldid=157606 * Hotcrystal0 * (+452)
14:37:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157629&oldid=157628 * Hotcrystal0 * (-32)
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14:54:24 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157630&oldid=157619 * Aadenboy * (+0)
15:09:17 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157631&oldid=157625 * H33T33 * (+113)
15:16:36 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157632&oldid=157631 * H33T33 * (+166)
15:17:47 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157633&oldid=157632 * H33T33 * (-52)
15:18:25 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157634&oldid=157633 * H33T33 * (+0)
15:32:52 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157635&oldid=157634 * H33T33 * (+159)
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17:08:56 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157636&oldid=157635 * H33T33 * (+154)
17:18:51 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157637&oldid=157636 * H33T33 * (+74)
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17:41:37 <esolangs> [[Infinite golfing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157638&oldid=157591 * JORE * (+154)
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18:42:03 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157639&oldid=157627 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1356)
18:44:26 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157640&oldid=157639 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-59)
18:46:00 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157641&oldid=157640 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* Instruction */
18:47:04 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157642&oldid=157641 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) /* Computational class */
18:47:56 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157643&oldid=157598 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15) /* My esolangs */
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19:31:12 <esolangs> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157644&oldid=156733 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+200) /* List of OISCs */
19:32:49 <esolangs> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157645&oldid=157644 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-2) /* List of OISCs */
19:39:07 <esolangs> [[Hito]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157646&oldid=150449 * TheCanon2 * (+8) Proofreading
19:42:07 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157647&oldid=157642 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Computational class */
21:18:09 <korvo> sprout: Oh, BTW, please make sure that anything generated by ChatGPT is copyright-free before adding it to the wiki. In general, I'd recommend *writing your own words* rather than relying on a generative tool to write for you.
21:18:51 <korvo> The policy's documented at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Copyrights
21:36:16 <sprout> all my stuff on the wiki predates popular llms
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02:01:12 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157648&oldid=157637 * H33T33 * (+448)
02:12:20 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157649&oldid=157648 * H33T33 * (+27)
04:04:50 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157650&oldid=157421 * Zhil * (+26)
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07:50:17 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157651&oldid=156870 * JIT * (+70)
08:05:04 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157652&oldid=157560 * JIT * (+58)
08:09:01 <esolangs> [[Print "deadfish"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157653&oldid=63956 * JIT * (+4)
09:54:39 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157654&oldid=148509 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+0)
10:49:11 <gry> sprout: hi
11:09:31 <esolangs> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157655&oldid=157645 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+53) /* List of OISCs */
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11:32:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157656&oldid=147340 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+133) /* Hi */ new section
11:45:29 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157657&oldid=157624 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+494)
11:48:07 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157658&oldid=157657 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1)
11:49:50 <esolangs> [[Underchaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157659&oldid=157658 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+16) /* Execution */
11:53:19 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157660&oldid=157643 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Users */
11:54:13 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157661&oldid=157660 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3) /* Users */
12:25:41 <esolangs> [[Irma]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157662 * Neon * (+15698) Created page with "'''''"Nothing ain't there. -Nicholas L."''''' ==Introduction== [[File:Irma Logo.png|frame|right|Original logo of Irma, circa 2025. Made by Irma's creator, Nicholas.]] {{infobox proglang |name=Irma Arnold |paradigms=Functional |author=[[User:Neon]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025
12:26:34 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157663&oldid=157662 * Neon * (+30)
12:27:16 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157664&oldid=157663 * Neon * (+1)
12:27:52 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157665&oldid=157664 * Neon * (+0)
12:35:15 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157666&oldid=157665 * Neon * (+174)
12:35:48 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157667&oldid=157666 * Neon * (+0)
12:36:14 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157668&oldid=157667 * Neon * (+1)
12:38:11 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157669&oldid=157668 * Neon * (+121)
13:01:54 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157670&oldid=157594 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+37)
13:34:32 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157671&oldid=157647 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+706)
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14:08:54 <HackEso> [U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR]
14:12:36 <int-e> somebody used that instead of ° elsewhere and I wondered what that symbol is
14:13:09 <sprout> I think it's a remnant from latin numerals
14:13:36 <sprout> Xº to denote it's a number
14:13:56 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes, I've seen people make that mistake.
14:15:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157672&oldid=157656 * Hotcrystal0 * (+279)
14:15:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157673&oldid=157672 * Hotcrystal0 * (-149)
14:16:52 <wib_jonas> probably because in some fonts they look similar
14:21:28 <wib_jonas> it's easy to remember: in iso-8859-1 the middle dot "·" that stands for multiplication has code 0xB7 which is 0x20 less than the code of the multiplication sign "×" which is 0xD7, the degrees sign "°" has code 0xB0 because it looks kind of like a superscript zero, superscript 2 "²" has code 0xB2, superscript 3 "³" has code 0xB3, and
14:21:28 <wib_jonas> superscript 1 "¹" who cares nobody uses that characters anyway.
14:25:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157674&oldid=157517 * Hotcrystal0 * (+320)
14:29:30 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157675&oldid=155316 * Hotcrystal0 * (-27)
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15:04:55 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157676&oldid=154959 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+10)
15:42:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Irma]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157677 * Neon * (+688) Created page with "There's something different about programming as the soft tapping of water crinkles outside. The room is illuminated, but dead in a dim grey. The chatter of the keyboard syncs with the orchestra of rain flowing down the gutter, spewing out onto the ground. The wind blows
16:09:55 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157678&oldid=156485 * Neon * (-233)
16:23:55 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157679&oldid=157669 * Neon * (+717)
16:26:21 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157680&oldid=157678 * Neon * (+29)
16:29:05 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157681&oldid=157679 * Neon * (+44)
16:33:03 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157682&oldid=157681 * Neon * (+156)
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17:10:59 <esolangs> [[9D brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157683 * JORE * (+869) Created page with "== 9D Brainfuck == '''9D Brainfuck''' is a esolang of fun modification of brainfuck. It have fake commands added. === Commands: === {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Command !! Action/Brainfuck |- | + || + |- | - || - |- | > || > |- | < || < |- | [ || [ |- | ] || ] |- |
17:18:18 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157684&oldid=157561 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+118)
17:20:10 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157685&oldid=157684 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+62) /* Rapid growth */
17:20:53 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157686&oldid=157685 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+2) /* Rapid growth */
17:34:39 <esolangs> [[Impossible to quine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157687 * JORE * (+349) Created page with "== Impossible to quine == '''Impossible to quine''' is a esolang which you cannot quine in it. Normally the output is '''I won't allow you to quine'''. If your code be '''I won't allow you to quine''', it will output '''Sorry, you cannot quine.''' === Quine (i
17:53:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400/How to write quines]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157688 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+182) Created page with "Thank you, [[User:Hakerh400]]! I made [[Parenthesys#Quine|my first quine]] using your manual! ~~~~"
18:07:17 <esolangs> [[;;;*++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157689&oldid=157328 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+19)
19:25:39 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157690&oldid=157670 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+229)
19:53:55 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157691&oldid=157690 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+14)
20:00:50 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157692&oldid=157691 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+146) /* 1 */
20:32:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Henry * New user account
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21:25:43 <ais523> hmm, the wiki is being very unresponsive: is it under pressure from scraperbots again?
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21:27:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157693&oldid=157617 * Ais523 * (+712) /* Movie */ what happened and why I haven't cleaned it up yet
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21:33:57 <ais523> int-e: sprout: I think ª and º are like a superscript "th" for making numbers into ordinals (i.e. they make 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th), but gendered (for languages in which adjectives have gendered) – probably specifically for Spanish
21:34:09 <ais523> * in which adjectives have genders
21:34:57 <ais523> you can see an example at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/primero#Spanish
21:35:20 <ais523> * which says that "1.º" and "1.ª" are alternative forms of "primero" and "primera"
21:35:28 <ais523> (both meaning "first")
21:39:34 <ais523> on my keyboard, ª is altgr-shift-f and º is altgr-shift-m, presumably for "female/feminine" and "male/masculine"
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00:03:24 <int-e> Looks that way; ais523 also mentioned it a few hours ago.
00:04:32 <ais523> not quite down but under so much load you can hardly get through
00:04:43 <int-e> Ah. I haven't gotten through yet.
00:04:49 <ais523> I guess someone ought to ping fizzie, but I strongly suspect this is scraperbots that need blocking rather than an actual site problem
00:05:01 <ais523> (and fizzie may well be asleep)
00:05:11 <int-e> I'd assume he's asleep, yeah
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00:09:49 <fizzie> It's getting ~95% 4xx errors, but I guess they're slow and/or expensive 4xx's this time.
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00:10:31 <ais523> maybe there's a common URL pattern that could be blocked (especially if the pages are guaranteed to not exist so there's no purpose for a human visiting them)
00:17:38 <fizzie> It's not really super-obvious this time, from the logs. Here's a 30-second sample of URLs only: https://zem.fi/tmp/urls.txt
00:18:24 <fizzie> "Special:RecentChangesLinked" probably being the expensive operation.
00:19:33 <ais523> oh yes – I'm not even sure if that one is indexed
00:20:44 <ais523> fizzie: parameter order works for this one, the wiki's provided links to RecentChangesLinked put the title at the start, not the end
00:21:57 <ais523> in fact, this bot appears to be alphabetising URL parameter order even in cases where that changes the meaning of the URL
00:22:26 <ais523> such as with returnto= (where an & after the = does not introduce a new parameter but rather is part of the URL being returned to)
00:23:28 <ais523> I guess it's probably a misguided attempt to avoid crawling the same page twice (without realising that many of the parameters may not significantly change the page being crawled)
00:23:33 <int-e> really? wouldn't it be quoted as %26?
00:24:49 <fizzie> Hmm. Well, those requests ended on their own ~15 minutes ago, and the load also does seem to have dropped from flat 100% down to ~60% (and the wiki answers to me now), so maybe it's not entirely down any more.
00:25:03 <ais523> int-e: actually there seems to be a different form of quoting: https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=The+Waterfall+Model&returntoquery=action%3Dedit
00:26:39 <ais523> hmm, these aren't all alphabetised, just most of them – maybe two different bots, or one bot + legitimate humans
00:27:04 <int-e> that's the login link from https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=The_Waterfall_Model&action=edit
00:27:15 <int-e> (when not logged in)
00:27:28 <b_jonas> Related changes is a link on the sidebar for (almost) every page, and I know I've clicked on it by accident a few times when I meant Recent changes.
00:27:53 <ais523> related changes is theoretically useful in niche circumstances but I don't use it very often
00:28:19 <b_jonas> I personally don't think I ever used Related changes legitimately, but it may be useful for others
00:28:20 <ais523> I think I've intentionally used it (to solve a problem rather than to test how it works) something like once or twice in my life, and only at Wikipedia
00:28:50 <ais523> it's most useful on categories, e.g. I think I've used it on Wikipedia's esolang category to see changes to esolang articles
00:28:58 <b_jonas> but then I use other weird tools that other people may think is useful only in niche cases
00:29:30 <ais523> it would probably be reasonable to restrict this sort of expensive query to logged-in users, but I'm not sure how difficult that is to configure
00:31:06 <int-e> I can't remember ever using that feature.
00:31:07 <ais523> in any case, a simple regex block on title=Special:RecentChangesLinked and title=Special%3ARecentChangesLinked (the dump contains both, oddly) might be enough
00:31:13 <ais523> err, not at the start of the URL
00:31:24 <ais523> (the start of the relevant portion of the URL0
00:31:50 <int-e> (but I can see that it's right there under "Tools" so a crawler would obviously pick that up)
00:31:51 <fizzie> I've added some ad-hoc filters, do let me know if you run into unexpected 503s as part of real use.
00:32:21 <fizzie> Someone also pointed me at a MediaWiki extension that can allegedly restrict specific special pages to logged-in users.
00:32:28 <ais523> OK, thanks for the attention
00:32:40 <ais523> int-e: right, there are a whole lot of hits on the "create account" page with different return-to URLs, too
00:33:50 <fizzie> (Specifically, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown -- which has a setting that "allows you to specify for each special page which user groups have access to it". I'll consider adding that extension when I next update MediaWiki, which should probably be soonishly anyway.)
00:33:52 <ais523> hmm, I think this bot may be randomising whether or not to escape query parameters
00:37:23 <fizzie> From what I've heard, this sort of thing (nonsensical, resource-intensive antisocial crawling) has been happening to all kinds of "small" websites, like the Debian bug tracker's query functionality has apparently been non-functional due to it.
00:38:44 <ais523> yes – I'm a member of a webforum who was hit by it
00:39:35 <ais523> I think it's not just small websites too, but larger ones as well (although they're more easily able to absorb the load)
00:43:07 <int-e> apparently it also bothers "small" websites like github: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/159123
00:44:39 <fizzie> There's also rather more traffic than I'd expect from real users to various "Special:WhatLinksHere" pages, but those have less obvious patterns because sometimes it's a /w/index.php URL, while other times it's a "/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/<page>" one, and the latter one's probably the same a real user would use.
00:46:40 <ais523> I think WhatLinksHere is just an index lookup, at least (whereas RecentChangesLinked probably needs a join)
00:48:19 <ais523> I use WhatLinksHere much more often than RecentChangesLinked, at least – although it's still fairly rare (most commonly I use it to check inbound links when deleting a page, although I am often willing to just let them turn red)
00:52:17 <zzo38> What I tried to do on my own computer is to set up port knocking for the HTTP server (and only for the HTTP server), due to this excessive badly behaved scraping.
00:53:29 <zzo38> However, the extension you mention for MediaWiki might be suitable if you only need to block access to some special pages rather than everything, I suppose.
00:54:44 <fizzie> Well, it looks like the performance is okay-ish now, so maybe that'll help kick the can down the road some. It's still a persistent 50% CPU load and ~6 qps, so I'm sure it's still 99+% bots, which is a shame, but at least it's maybe not preventing real visitors.
00:59:56 <b_jonas> I use What links here occasionally regularly.
01:00:09 <b_jonas> s/regularly/for a legitimate purpose/
01:05:14 <zzo38> I also sometimes use "What links here"
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01:36:26 <ais523> I think port knocking doesn't work well for a public website because even if you tell people the knock sequence, most people wouldn't be able to enter it correctly
01:43:48 <ais523> Lykaina: so when you make a network connection to a computer (typically a server), the connection request contains a number (the "port number") that specifies what program you want to connect to; in theory it could be anything, but various protocols have standard numbers so that you don't need to specify the number (e.g. mailservers use port 25 to communicate with each other and web browsers use 80 for http or 443 for https)
01:44:08 <ais523> port knocking is when you make a series of connections to the same computer and use the port numbers like you're entering a password
01:44:20 <ais523> so it's just an arbitrary sequence of numbers that you have to find out
01:44:47 <ais523> and a server that requires port knocking will reject all the connections until you connect with the right sequence of port numbers, and only then will it accept the connection
01:45:47 <ais523> it's basically a way to do the equivalent of a login sequence, but at a lower level than typical password entry forms, i.e. it's done while forming the connection, before the program that will eventually accept the connection even sees it
01:46:30 <fizzie> Classically, you make the sequence not monotonically increasing (and/or add ports that will immediately fail it) to prevent a linear port scans (are those even a thing anymore?) from accidentally passing the knock sequence.
01:47:27 <ais523> port scans are definitely still a thing, although I think that nowadays the primariy legitimate use is in attempts to detect systems that have been infected by malware and have more ports open than they should as a consequence
01:47:40 <ais523> I'm not sure whether they're typically linear – there's no particular reason to port scan in any particular order
01:48:05 <ais523> but I kind-of assumed that you'd implement it so that any port that wasn't the next one in the sequence would cause you to have to start again from the start
01:53:04 <ais523> Wikipedia points out that port knocking is usually vulnerable to replay attacks, so it's harder to secure than password authentication would be
01:55:02 <fizzie> The port-knocking scheme I use for SSH involves having to attempt a TCP connection with a specific MSS value, which seems to work okay in practice, and has the benefit that the "knock" can happen on the same port as the service, meaning it's usually affected by the same firewall rules as the actual connection would be.
01:55:36 <ais523> fizzie: ah, one-port knocking to get through firewalls, that makes sense as security through obscurity
01:56:00 <ais523> I was thinking that maybe the best alternative would be to have some sort of authentication service running on a known port which you could send passwords to securely, and then it would open some other port for you
01:58:44 <Lykaina> what if the port knock sequence is one of those codes that change every 30 sec
01:59:26 <Lykaina> using 10 ports, for digits 0-9
02:00:03 <ais523> yep, you can do that sort of thing if you want to
02:00:11 <fizzie> The MSS thing can be implemented in nftables rules, so it doesn't require a separate (arguably potentially vulnerable, though it could be very minimal) piece of software.
02:00:15 <ais523> (would still be vulnerable to replay attacks unless you only accepted each code once)
02:04:56 <fizzie> (A fixed sequence of regular knocks, or even detecting a password in the knock packet, can also be done in firewall rules. Decoding any kind of OTP... well, I hear BPF is quite powerful.)
02:14:44 <ais523> a non-Turing-complete programming language originally designed to implement firewalls
02:15:02 <ais523> although it later got massively extended and sort-of became a different language, eBPF
02:15:54 <ais523> it might qualify as an esolang, but is perhaps too practically useful for that
02:19:25 <ais523> but BPF and eBPF became the languages for when a kernel interface wants to accept a function/procedure as an argument, and run it in kernel mode rather than calling back into a usermode process – you translate the function into BPF/eBPF and the kernel runs it for you
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04:39:03 <zzo38> I just had one port number to allow access for a limited time, and one lower port number and one higher port number both of which will lock out the access until the correct port number is knocked again. The intention was not security or secrecy, but to prevent excessive load by excessive access by badly behaved automated programs. I did not want to stop anyone from using curl, Lynx, etc.
05:09:21 <esolangs> [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157694&oldid=155022 * Dadsdy * (+66) /* External resources */
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06:19:46 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157696 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+1753) Created page with "'''Logica''' is an esolang for a 2-bit CPU created by Cole. There is no input/output. The CPU has four 2-bit registers. A typical instruction (all the variables are bits): <code>aa bb cc dddd ee</code> ==The breakdown of the instr
06:32:54 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157697&oldid=157696 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+19)
06:33:06 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157698&oldid=157697 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-27)
06:48:11 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157699&oldid=157698 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+79)
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06:58:27 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157701&oldid=157700 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-33)
06:58:51 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157702&oldid=157701 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+2)
09:45:38 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157703&oldid=157661 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* Users */
09:54:38 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157704 * JIT * (+17) Redirected page to [[]]
10:05:31 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157705&oldid=157692 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-277)
10:35:44 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157706 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+967) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Hakerh''' is an esolang by [[User:TBPO]] that imitates [[User:Hakerh400]]'s esolangs. I made a timestamp below to mark where my transformation into Hakerh400 begun: ~~~ == Syntax == The program consists of function definitions: f(X) = Y Where uppe
10:36:39 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157707&oldid=157706 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-40)
11:30:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157708&oldid=157451 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-106) /* Input/output capabilities */
11:32:20 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157709&oldid=157707 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1433)
11:34:04 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157710&oldid=157703 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+20)
11:38:53 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157711&oldid=157709 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0)
11:39:21 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157712&oldid=157711 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/157711|157711]] by [[Special:Contributions/TenBillionPlusOne|TenBillionPlusOne]] ([[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne|talk]])
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11:46:51 <fizzie> Heh, want to the GCC bug tracker (there's a documentation mistake that I've been aware for at least a decade that I never get around reporting, and probably won't this time either), and it flashed that Anubis thing briefly, so I guess they've also had problems with scrapers.
11:46:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157714&oldid=157559 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* I */
11:47:25 <fizzie> https://github.com/TecharoHQ/anubis <- this thing.
11:48:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157715&oldid=157714 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15) /* C */
11:48:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157716&oldid=157715 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+17) /* U */
11:49:34 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157717&oldid=157716 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+48) /* H */
11:50:50 <fizzie> (I'm sure it is very effective, but it also requires clients to execute JS, which pretty much disqualifies it instantly.)
11:59:06 <fizzie> I don't even know if they expect docs bugs through the bug tracker. The "gcc" product has a "web" component, described as "There is an error or omission on the Web pages", but most issues in it aren't about the manual. And there isn't a "doc" or "manual" component or anything similar.
12:03:17 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157718&oldid=157712 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Examples */
12:03:54 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157719&oldid=157718 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-204) /* Examples temp */
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12:09:11 <wib_jonas> fizzie: which book from among the manuals, as in the titles listed at https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/ ? the main GCC Manual or some other one?
12:13:01 <wib_jonas> also do you have a patch or just a bug report?
12:13:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157720&oldid=157673 * Hotcrystal0 * (+306)
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12:14:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157722&oldid=157721 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
12:14:22 <esolangs> [[Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157723 * PrySigneToFry * (+5355) Created page with "Micron Turi-Complete Aembly Lauage(Micron Turing-Complete Assembly Language, MTCASM for short) is designed by PSTF, based on Assembly Language of Windows, and [[X-ASM]] by the same author. = Prologue = MTCASM is a Turing-Complete, Stron
12:15:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157724&oldid=157717 * PrySigneToFry * (+47)
12:16:50 <wib_jonas> I don't find any instructions on how to report documentation bugs without a patch.
12:17:33 <wib_jonas> I've reported a compiler bug for gcc but that was many years ago, never reported a doc bug for gcc.
12:18:48 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157725&oldid=157582 * PrySigneToFry * (+29)
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12:26:11 <fizzie> The main one, and I don't have a patch because I don't really want to make a judgement call on what to write instead.
12:26:18 <fizzie> The problem is in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Zero-Length.html and it's... well, this: https://zem.fi/tmp/fam.txt
12:27:54 <wib_jonas> oh heck, zero length array. I think the gcc devs wish they could go back in time and change that feature to never have existed in gcc, but they also can't remove it now because the linux kernel or some other programs depend on it too much.
12:28:15 <fizzie> Well, it's not really about zero-length arrays as such, it's about the standard mechanism (flexible array members).
12:40:56 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157726&oldid=157719 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+503) /* Examples */
12:41:58 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157727&oldid=157726 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* SKI Calculus */
12:50:46 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157728&oldid=157727 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-6) /* Basic relations */
12:58:04 <wib_jonas> fizzie: hmm, that does look like the doc is misleading
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12:59:33 <int-e> . o O ( the bigger scandal is that this is an extension )
13:02:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157730&oldid=157722 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+123)
13:03:54 <int-e> Can you even work around this reliably? I mean, sure, you can define a copy of the struct with a concrete length for the array and initialize that, then cast things around. But couldn't the alignment of that final field depend on its size?
13:04:50 <int-e> I seem to recall that offsets are only guaranteed to be equal if the field types up to that point (including the field itself) are equal.
13:06:39 <esolangs> [[UNBABTIZED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157731&oldid=38968 * Tpaefawzen * (+1217)
13:08:26 <wib_jonas> int-e: no. (1) we have C99 flexible arrays instead of the extension. (2) it's too late to add true zero-size objects to either C or C++, they'd break too much existing code, and zero-length arrays would break even more. (3) there's now a C++ attribute to help with the most common use case for when you would want zero-sized objects, which is when
13:08:27 <wib_jonas> one of the members of a struct is empty (as in padding only but not technically zero-sizeof) then it can overlap with other members of the same struct if you add the right C++ attribute from a recent C++ standard. (the previous workaround was to use a base instead of a member). (4) the other common use case is passing an empty (not zero sized)
13:08:27 <wib_jonas> struct to a function as argument. under the x86 ABI, if the struct is trivial then such a struct is already eliminated and doesn't consume any registers, so there's no run-time overhead.
13:08:42 <wib_jonas> sorry, I mean the xi6_64 gcc ABI, not the x86_32 ABI
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13:19:52 <wib_jonas> fizzie: have you tried to ask in #gcc on libera?
13:20:10 <wib_jonas> they might know how to submit doc bug reports
13:21:48 <esolangs> [[UNBABTIZED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157732&oldid=157731 * Tpaefawzen * (+336)
13:22:29 <esolangs> [[UNBABTIZED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157733&oldid=157732 * Tpaefawzen * (+25) /* External resources */
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14:09:19 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157734&oldid=157649 * H33T33 * (+2)
14:12:52 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157735&oldid=157680 * Neon * (-258) /* Neon */
14:15:50 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157736&oldid=157735 * Neon * (+0) /* Neon */
14:18:54 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157737&oldid=157734 * H33T33 * (+43)
14:20:24 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157738&oldid=156989 * H33T33 * (+37)
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15:48:23 <esolangs> [[Interpreterion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157742&oldid=157686 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+45)
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16:16:18 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157743&oldid=157399 * H33T33 * (-7598)
16:18:08 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157744 * H33T33 * (+7803) Created page with "[[Topple| Back to Topple]] ''Disclaimer: The current source file is bugged. The fixed file will be added ASAP'' ==Source Code== [[Topple/Source_Code|C Source Code]] <pre>#include <stdio.h> #include <string.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <time.h> #include <sy
16:19:56 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157745 * Aadenboy * (+3755) Created page with "<div style="display: flex; flex-direction: row; align-items: center;"><div style="width: 50vw; height: 2em; background-color: #f00; margin: 0.25em; border: 2px solid #000; display: inline-block;"> <div style="width: {{#expr:{{formatnum:{{NUMBEROFEDITS}
16:20:51 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157746&oldid=157745 * Aadenboy * (+85)
16:21:18 <esolangs> [[Topple/Source Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157747&oldid=157744 * H33T33 * (-37)
16:21:30 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157748&oldid=157495 * Aadenboy * (+31) /* anything else */ [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]]
16:21:48 * ski . o O ( SKI combinators are not a calculus, <http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/533#comment-7712> )
16:24:25 <korvo> So the poset looks like "logic" ≥ "algebra" ≥ "calculus"?
16:24:51 <korvo> I appreciate this subtlety.
16:36:09 <esolangs> [[Irma]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157749&oldid=157682 * Neon * (+402)
16:41:17 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157750&oldid=157705 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-224)
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17:16:05 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157753 * Henry * (+5560) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Prime Number Programming Language |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Henry]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |typesys= |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refim
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17:40:22 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157757&oldid=157710 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+48) /* My esolangs */
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17:59:55 <zzo38> I think zero-length arrays and zero-length structures are useful and are better than the flexible arrays of C99 and other work-arounds that shouldn't be needed.
18:01:10 <zzo38> They shouldn't guess why you want zero-length arrays and structures; it can just be allowed and then you can use it for whatever purpose is appropriate. It does have more uses than have been mentioned.
18:02:11 <zzo38> For example, sometimes you will be using a macro to retrieve a type or number from a structure but where that type or number is not actual data in the structure. Another use is if a name is required to be defined but does not need to do anything else, in which case it is suitable to take up zero space. There are others as well.
18:13:29 <zzo38> (I think there are problems with C; I would just allow zero-length stuff, and make other changes as well, including removing some of the C99 and later stuff while keeping some of it)
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18:24:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157758&oldid=157730 * Hotcrystal0 * (+393)
18:25:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157759&oldid=157758 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
18:25:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157760&oldid=157759 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
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18:45:01 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157761&oldid=157756 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+435)
18:47:05 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, zero-length arrays and zero-length structs are very useful, which is why rust supports them completely. they're just not worth to retrofit to an existing language like C or C++ without potentially silently breaking a lot of things that assume that zero-length data can't exist.
18:48:53 <b_jonas> also the C++ attribute that I mentioned earlier is [[no_unique_address]], introduced by C++20
19:03:05 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157762&oldid=157736 * Neon * (-858)
19:06:15 <zzo38> Rust has its own problems, including Unicode string types, and I think also excessive dependencies for programs, and I don't know if Rust has a "goto" command.
19:07:24 <zzo38> However, although it might not be worth to retrofit to C99 and newer, it can be done as an extension of C89 to add and change some things (including some things of newer versions of C); a compiler operating in C99 and newer mode could disable the features that don't work if that becomes necessary
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19:12:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: the unicode string tyeps are only a mild problem that can be solved by some later library additions. the main thing that's currently missing from the stable part of standard library is a byte string infix in byte string search (like memmem in C), but the devs are already working on adding such functions. some of the IO and operating system abstractions also use the unicode string types, but those
19:13:00 <b_jonas> are not so hard to replace with a different library.
19:14:55 <b_jonas> I would generally recommend to just ignore the library unicode string types in rust, unless you want to modify the rustc compiler or write procedural macros. what's in and not in the standard library is very much influenced by what library functions rustc itself depends on.
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19:57:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157763 * Hotcrystal0 * (+262) Created page with "Is this a WIP? ~~~~"
19:58:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157764&oldid=157763 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
20:05:53 <zzo38> Having the Unicode string types means that library API calls would use it. (GOTO doesn't have this problem because even if a library uses GOTO that does not affect the API calls.)
20:08:57 <zzo38> (I think there are other problems with Rust and some of the more modern programming languages as well; C does have some problems but the newer ones (and sometimes newer versions of C) tend to make some things worse instead.)
20:11:22 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157765&oldid=157762 * Neon * (+16)
20:14:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: also ziglang supports zero-length structures. I'm not too familiar with zig so I'm not entirely sure if it supports zero-length arrays too, but I think it does.
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21:06:50 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157766&oldid=157724 * Buckets * (+11)
21:07:21 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157767&oldid=157435 * Buckets * (+10) /* 2020 */
21:07:44 <esolangs> [[Moxy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157768 * Buckets * (+3080) Created page with "{{lowercase}} moxy(, which Stands for Malice-cive Over-infuriating, also filling you with Xurddjtsudutdiuf and Yjdtjxjfyxufifidfufduuf potential) is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020, it was [[User:Buckets]]' First attempt to Make a "Hard
21:08:22 <esolangs> [[Moxy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157769&oldid=157768 * Buckets * (+2)
21:08:54 <esolangs> [[Moxy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157770&oldid=157769 * Buckets * (+1)
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21:10:51 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157771&oldid=157767 * Buckets * (+0)
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21:18:20 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157772&oldid=157746 * Aadenboy * (+658)
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21:42:52 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157773&oldid=157754 * Henry * (+6360)
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22:55:41 <esolangs> [[User:Henry]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157774 * Henry * (+470) Created page with "Hi, my name is Henry, and I've reached this wiki since I like to both create and implement esoteric languages (above all, because most of the time their interpreters can be reduced to only a couple lines of Python). You can learn more about me in my [https://github.com
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00:32:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157775&oldid=157764 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+165)
00:32:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157776&oldid=157775 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+9)
00:36:12 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157777&oldid=157702 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+106)
00:37:41 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157778&oldid=157777 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+507)
00:38:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * moved [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] to [[Logica]]
00:38:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * moved [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Logica]] to [[Talk:Logica]]
00:38:50 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157783&oldid=157695 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+4)
00:39:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157784&oldid=157781 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+122)
00:42:17 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157785&oldid=157766 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+13) /* L */
01:02:04 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157786&oldid=157324 * I am islptng * (+687)
01:02:25 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157787&oldid=157786 * I am islptng * (+17) /* Symbols */
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01:46:19 <esolangs> [[Interpreter-modifying]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157788&oldid=157584 * Corbin * (+331) The concept goes back to the beginning of Lisp, but was not well-defined enough for efficient self-hosting prior to Black.
01:53:36 <esolangs> [[Black (Asai)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157789 * Corbin * (+650) Stub for what I think is the first proven-efficient infinite tower of metainterpreters in the literature.
02:17:14 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157790&oldid=157737 * H33T33 * (+536)
02:24:28 <esolangs> [[Black (Asai)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157791&oldid=157789 * Corbin * (+73) Categories.
03:43:15 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157792 * Corbin * (+792) I have like twenty tabs open right now and I'm still probably gonna get something wrong. Here's an outline.
03:57:59 <esolangs> [[G]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157793 * Helpeesl * (+7501) Created page with "==Intro== G is a 2D esolang created by [[User:Helpeesl]] on May 15th 2025 and only uses commands which have been represented by G, g, , , , , or other forms of g in other programming languages. ==Commands== > Moves the pointer to the right one from [[Look!]], [[ABCDE]], [[
03:58:49 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157794&oldid=157793 * Helpeesl * (+1)
03:59:28 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157795&oldid=157794 * Helpeesl * (+40)
04:01:00 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157796&oldid=157795 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:02:56 <esolangs> [[G]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157797&oldid=157796 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:04:26 <esolangs> [[FHC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157798&oldid=157454 * Helpeesl * (-29)
04:04:47 <esolangs> [[HQ9-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157799&oldid=157450 * Helpeesl * (-29)
04:05:31 <esolangs> [[2Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157800&oldid=157469 * Helpeesl * (-27)
04:05:49 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157801&oldid=157792 * Corbin * (+1148) /* Free monoids */ Stub.
04:05:50 <esolangs> [[Dreadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157802&oldid=157467 * Helpeesl * (-26)
04:06:13 <esolangs> [[Feed the Chaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157803&oldid=157471 * Helpeesl * (-27)
04:07:27 <esolangs> [[Codesick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157804&oldid=157671 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:07:44 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157805&oldid=157739 * Helpeesl * (+0)
04:44:39 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157806&oldid=157787 * I am islptng * (+32)
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04:45:52 <ais523> zzo38: Rust currently doesn't have a goto statement, although there are plans to add gotos from one arm of a "match" (the equivalent of a "switch") to another
04:47:46 <ais523> and yes, Rust's "String" type and "str" are Unicode, but you don't have to use them for strings, there are a range of other string-like types available like OsString (OS default, e.g. UTF-16 on Windows) and Vec<u8> (bytestring)
05:01:43 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157807&oldid=157806 * I am islptng * (-59)
05:04:35 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157808&oldid=157779 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+107)
05:09:01 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157809&oldid=157808 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+121)
05:16:40 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157810&oldid=157807 * I am islptng * (+875)
05:17:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157811 * I am islptng * (+681) Created page with "@[[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]]: This was what I mean yesterday! --~~~~"
05:20:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157812&oldid=157811 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+216)
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06:06:29 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157813&oldid=157783 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-4)
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06:28:18 <b_jonas> ais523: IIUC OsString on windows is actually also UTF-8 strings, they're just converted to UTF-16 on the fly when passed to a win32 system call eg. representing a filename.
06:29:05 <b_jonas> see https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/std/ffi/struct.OsString.html the paragraph starting with /Note,/
06:30:27 <ais523> b_jonas: I'm pretty sure Rust OsString on Windows can represent a string that contains surrogates
06:30:32 <ais523> unpaired surrogates, that is
06:33:23 <ais523> I guess it could just UTF-8-encode the surrogates
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06:38:35 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157814&oldid=157757 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3) /* Coming soon */
06:39:29 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157815&oldid=157761 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3)
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07:02:00 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157816&oldid=156258 * Timwi * (+5190) Regex functions: add newest functions from AoC 2024 5a (https://youtu.be/THhI_x7F8WY); add result value column and some nowraps
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07:09:47 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157817&oldid=157815 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+15)
08:02:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157818&oldid=157812 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-216)
10:21:53 <esolangs> [[User:Henry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157819&oldid=157774 * Henry * (+30)
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11:42:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157820&oldid=157629 * PrySigneToFry * (+100)
11:50:52 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157821&oldid=157801 * Ais523 * (+693) /* Free monoids */ a) an introduction to what "free" means because this might be read by non-mathematicians (I think there may have been a definition already but it was so technical that I initially missed it), b) don't use S to represent a different set from the set it represents
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12:40:50 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157822&oldid=157809 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-75)
12:48:51 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157823&oldid=157813 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+58)
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12:54:06 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157824&oldid=157823 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-9)
12:59:15 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157825&oldid=157817 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+36)
13:01:08 <esolangs> [[SLet (Old 2)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157826&oldid=152595 * I am islptng * (+303)
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13:03:13 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157827&oldid=157824 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+132)
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13:05:21 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157828&oldid=157825 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) /* 3 */
13:10:47 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157829&oldid=157827 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-132)
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13:16:32 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157830&oldid=157829 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+54)
13:23:07 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157831&oldid=157830 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-54)
13:33:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157832&oldid=157828 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+82) /* 3 */
13:39:11 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157833 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+194) Created page with "'''Transformation is complete''' is esolang by former [[User:TBPO]], now a clone of [[User:Hakerh400]]. I made a timestamp to mark when my transformation became complete: (( I'll insert later ))"
13:47:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheCatFromGithub * New user account
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13:48:37 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157834&oldid=157814 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+104)
13:49:31 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157835 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+964) Created page with "'''Modulo 2 v2''' is a programming language created by [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]]. It is based off [[User:I am islptng]]'s modification of the original language but with features present in the original, like multiple "codeblock
13:50:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157836&oldid=157752 * TheCatFromGithub * (+152) /* Introductions */ added introduction
13:51:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157837&oldid=157836 * TheCatFromGithub * (+106) oops forgot to sign
13:56:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157838&oldid=157832 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-19)
14:00:38 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157839&oldid=157822 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+4)
14:02:08 <esolangs> [[PNPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157840&oldid=157773 * Henry * (+1498)
14:06:34 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157841&oldid=157839 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+10)
14:11:49 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157842&oldid=157790 * H33T33 * (+238)
14:24:35 <esolangs> [[WTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157843&oldid=157842 * H33T33 * (-7)
14:28:08 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157844&oldid=157843 * H33T33 * (-9)
14:34:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157845&oldid=157760 * Hotcrystal0 * (+285)
14:35:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157846&oldid=157845 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
14:35:58 <esolangs> [[Infinite noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157847&oldid=145311 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2793) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/145311|145311]] by [[Special:Contributions/RainbowDash|RainbowDash]] ([[User talk:RainbowDash|talk]])
14:37:24 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157848&oldid=157675 * Hotcrystal0 * (-94)
14:37:52 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157849&oldid=157848 * Hotcrystal0 * (+27)
14:38:21 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157850&oldid=157849 * Hotcrystal0 * (+18)
14:38:34 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157851&oldid=157850 * Hotcrystal0 * (+9)
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14:44:25 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157852 * TheCatFromGithub * (+557) created page
14:44:45 <esolangs> [[User:TheCatFromGithub]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157853 * TheCatFromGithub * (+30) Created page with "Hello, I created [[ShiftEso]]."
14:45:06 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157854&oldid=157852 * TheCatFromGithub * (+3)
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14:47:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157855&oldid=157785 * TheCatFromGithub * (+15) /* S */ added shifteso
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14:59:33 <wib_jonas> what the heck? "correspondance" is spelled with "ance" in english, but "ence" in french? I was told that the "ance" vs "ence" spelling always matches between english and french! it's all lies!
15:01:19 <wib_jonas> oh... yes, it's spelled with "ence" in english and "ance" in french
15:09:24 <korvo> Another example is "difference" vs "diffránce" (sp?); there was some sort of vowel shift after the loaning of these words.
15:10:41 <ais523> korvo: My dictionary says that it's "différence" in French, which has the same ending
15:10:43 <korvo> Oh, wow. "différance". I was not even close.
15:10:56 <ais523> (and I don't think that á is a letter in French)
15:11:36 <ais523> différance is a French word, but it's the equivalent of the obscure English word différance (which is presumably a loanword)
15:11:59 <korvo> ais523: Oh, apparently Derrida deliberately used the old spelling, and that's why it sticks out in my mind.
15:12:16 <korvo> So this is a non-example for modern Francophones.
15:12:30 <ais523> <Wikipedia> The ⟨a⟩ of différance is a deliberate misspelling of différence, though the two are pronounced identically
15:12:45 <korvo> Yep, an example of hauntology.
15:16:41 <wib_jonas> "ance" vs "ence" ending is always pronounced differently, that's why this is so confusing
15:17:25 <wib_jonas> "ance" vs "ence" ending is always pronounced the same, that's why this is so confusing
15:18:45 <wib_jonas> I mean there was the part where "correspondence" applies at the meta level too because these are about english and french words corresponding to each other, and now you brought up "difference".
15:18:58 <ais523> the vowel's more a schwa than anything, I think – which would imply that it would be pronounced differently if you stressed the syllable but not in its usual unstressed state
15:19:43 <ais523> are there any esolangs which are named using regular words except that the stress is in the wrong place?
15:21:09 <wib_jonas> hmm, maybe the spelling is an attempt to set up a who shaves the barber style paradox, like "what's the only word ending in 'ance' or 'ence' where the correspondence between english and french spelling is broken?" "correspondence." "yes, that's what I said."
15:22:01 <wib_jonas> "except the stress is in the wrong place" => probably, because there are both british and american esolangers, and they don't always agree on where the stress is
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15:26:01 <wib_jonas> of course this started because I was writing "correspondence" and then decided to look up the spelling. not that my readers would care in this case.
15:27:53 <ais523> often the only way to memorise this sort of thing is to read enough English that it become subconscious
15:28:42 <int-e> b_jonas: "why" -- apparently it's taken from Latin without the detour via French: https://www.etymonline.com/word/correspondence
15:30:21 <wib_jonas> yes, I know "existence" is one that I often used to spell wrong
15:32:09 <wib_jonas> int-e: latin is what usually decides between "ance" and "ence" spelling yes, and that's why it matches in french and english, but that doesn't explain the difference for "correspondance" in french vs "correspondence" in english
15:33:12 <int-e> I guess I don't care about that part as much.
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15:53:31 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157856&oldid=157650 * Zhil * (+4) Reduced the size of the one-combinator bases
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16:59:19 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157857&oldid=157856 * Zhil * (+1)
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17:32:06 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157858&oldid=157821 * Corbin * (+1854) I see that leaving this half-finished was a mistake. Next time I will not start editing before bed.
17:32:56 <korvo> ais523: I can't see a way to save your paragraph in [[monoid]]. The freedom of equality isn't the point, and that's actually why I included equality in the top-level definition.
17:33:28 <korvo> What's relevant here is that for any set L, L* is a monoid; that is, there's a functor * : Set -> Mon.
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17:34:07 <korvo> I need to bulldoze that section somewhat anyway, because I didn't realize that I need to define monoid presentations and rank *after* free monoids.
17:38:16 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157859&oldid=157858 * Corbin * (+240) Put the category-theory gibberish at the bottom, out of the way. Most folks will only care about sets.
17:38:27 <ais523> korvo: so the basic problem with the article is that someone who knows enough of the relevant mathematics to be able to understand it would already know what a monoid is, so it's unclear who the target audience is
17:38:48 <korvo> ais523: Oh! Okay, let's reset assumptions before I keep editing.
17:39:21 <ais523> that's probably fixable after the artice is finished, though
17:40:02 <korvo> My main thought was that I've gotten basically no guidance on [[concatenative language]]. My secondary thought was that monoids sure pop up a lot but we never bother to explain what they are.
17:41:39 <korvo> I'm seriously concerned that we're going to enter a third generation of programmers who refuse to learn what a monoid homomorphism is, and we're not even having a page that bikesheds the terminology.
17:42:15 <ais523> concatenative languages bother me a bit, because there are a) concatenative calculus languages like Joy and Mlatu which clearly fit, and b) a whole sphere of concatenative-ish languages like brainfuck which are a bit of a grey area
17:42:23 <ais523> and I'm not sure how to deal with b) in my head
17:42:32 <korvo> [[BF instruction minimalization]] is a messy read at best. Basically lab notes. Do we have a clear target audience for that?
17:43:09 <korvo> Ah, sure, the tribes of programming languages are a difficult Whorfian mind-lock to escape.
17:43:11 <ais523> it's for people who want to see a lot of partial attempts at minimalising BF
17:43:26 <ais523> which is a nontrivially-sized target audience
17:43:50 <korvo> Sure. As opposed to [[simple translation]], which is for the much smaller audience of folks who are minimising BF~
17:43:51 <ais523> there are so many programmers who see that < and - can be combined into a single instruction and the language still works, then try to go further
17:44:14 <ais523> the simple translation page came a lot later, and was an attempt to formalise some of the concepts rather than to show a lot of attempts
17:44:43 <ais523> (and was also intended to shed light onto the "minimalise BF into a turning tarpit" approach which may, oddly, still be possible via simple translation)
17:45:19 <ais523> but "trying to minimalise BF" is a) a popular subject, b) something that it's very easy to do incorrectly
17:45:39 <ais523> so having a lot of visible attempts is in some sense useful to avoid duplication of effort (and also to demonstrate why it's hard to do correctly)
17:46:42 <ais523> I'm trying to remember if anyone's tried obviously futile things like memory-mapping [ and ] yet – it wouldn't surprise me
17:46:54 <korvo> Also, I think that you and I look at deep structure differently. I'm completely unsurprised that monoids would show up randomly in the syntax of existing languages, because existing languages tend to have *much* richer structures, up to Kleene algebras!
17:47:40 <ais523> korvo: oh, I'm not surprised that the syntax forms a monoid – I'm surprised that the syntax forms a *function* in a way that makes composition meaningful
17:48:31 <korvo> ais523: Oh, it's because control flow tends to be monadic and monads are a special kind of monoid.
17:48:52 <korvo> If you have the ability to say "do this, then do that", that usually implies some sort of monoidal action combining this and that.
17:50:07 <ais523> right, but the monadic flatmap feels a bit different from the normal sense of function composition
17:50:33 <ais523> I think it can be viewed as a function composition, though
17:52:36 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157860&oldid=157854 * TheCatFromGithub * (+2)
17:52:53 <korvo> The way we usually do it (for some monad M) is to lift functions X → Y to actions X → M(Y). This is why folks say that monad-heavy languages act "in the monad" or "return into the monad".
17:53:01 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157861&oldid=157851 * Hotcrystal0 * (-10)
17:53:22 <korvo> Then the composition is "ordinary" function composition, using the pieces of the monad as needed.
17:53:48 <korvo> Anyway, yeah, monoids are just special cases of categories. It's all just goo at some point.
17:54:03 <ais523> well, no, because the syntactic composition composes X→M(Y) with Y→M(Z) to produce X→M(Z), and function composition doesn't do that
17:54:29 <ais523> it's a related operation but not identical
17:54:44 <korvo> Syntactic composition with the semicolon will do that. Most languages don't have the "programmable semicolon"; the monad is fixed.
17:55:10 <ais523> oh, OK, I think I understand what I'm stuck on now
17:55:48 <ais523> we are composing X→Y and Y→Z but the actual program is doing M(X→Y) and M(Y→Z) for some fixed monad M
17:56:39 <ais523> there are, e.g., two ways to view an Underload fragment: either it's a function from the portion of the stack it reads to the portion of the stack it writes, or it's a function from stacks to stacks
17:56:56 <korvo> Yes, exactly. Like for BF, the monad passes the state of the tape and pointer and manages I/O. The homomorphism is sending us to the Kleisli category where that monad is a fixed background effect.
17:57:07 <ais523> and the latter view is easy to understand and reason about – but the former view is the one you are mostly using when programming in it
17:57:31 <korvo> Right. The latter is what we do with Forth-style stack-effect comments like ( x y -- z w z )
17:57:35 <ais523> for languages which are further away from concatenative calculus, the monad is pulling more weight and is less visible
17:58:01 <korvo> But the former is what we operationalize with e.g. Haskell stacks like (x, (y, Stack)) -> (z, (w, (z, Stack)))
17:58:21 <ais523> so defining them as concatenative means that you are trying to force the monad "into view", and into the definition of syntax fragments as functions, when it isn't something that programmers consciously think about usually
17:58:47 <korvo> Yes. And for languages like Cammy, with *no* background monad, this hopefully trivializes; one can pretend that Cammy is always talking about sets.
17:59:28 <ais523> fwiw, I'm generally a believer that statically typed languages should try to make their background monads more visible, especially by integrating them into the type system
17:59:55 <ais523> I think effect systems are an example of that sort of thing
18:00:14 <ais523> and Haskell is substantially in that direction already (although I don't use it much)
18:01:13 <korvo> So, here's a concrete motivation for compiler engineers: concatenative reasoning can be used to iterate over a list of operations, and a monoid can be used to optimize those iterations down into a single action.
18:01:41 <korvo> Peephole optimizers are an obvious example, but abstract interpreters can be defined to generally walk over a list (or anything traversable, of course...)
18:01:54 <ais523> so compiler intermediate representations have been gradually moving in that direction – but they also usually have more symmetries than a monoid implies
18:02:17 <ais523> so you end up with something that is a monoid, but has extra structure on top (and typically doesn't syntactically match the original language)
18:02:44 <korvo> Well, tell me what you think of this: https://github.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/blob/main/bf/bf.py#L163-L192
18:03:09 <ais523> oh right, Github doesn't work without JS nowadays
18:03:12 <korvo> This is a one-register abstract interpreter over BF. Its correctness is mostly from the idea that we really do have a monoid.
18:03:33 <ais523> (pull requests still work, and readmes on project home pages, just not anything else)
18:04:00 <korvo> Are raw links still working? https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/refs/heads/main/bf/bf.py
18:04:50 <ais523> korvo: I loaded it, eventually
18:05:01 <ais523> I find it hard to read and hard to get an idea of whether or not it's correct
18:05:59 <ais523> …also I was surprised that I'm apparently not the only person who habitually uses "rv" for temporary variables that are used to construct the return value of a function, despite the name being an obvious initialism
18:07:17 <ais523> anyway, things like "elif adHead is anAdd and ad is aZero: bfHead, adHead, immHead = bf, ad, imm" look like bugs to me – I assume that adds are more complicated than zeros, so why would you overwrite the add with the zero?
18:07:28 <ais523> but that doesn't mean they are bugs, it might just mean that I'm not understanding how the code works
18:08:48 <korvo> adHead is the next instruction to commit and ad is the next instruction to decode. This corresponds to BF code like `++[-]`; we're committed to adding 2, but that will be wiped out by an unconditional 0.
18:09:09 <ais523> ah, I see – it's a "set to zero" instruction, so you're wiping out any previous changes
18:09:21 <korvo> Ah, yeah, like in bfmacro.
18:10:17 <ais523> I guess this code is not making use of the monoidal nature of BF because it would work just as well scanning left to right
18:11:00 <ais523> …although it's hard to imagine a nonassociative version of BF that could be used to demonstrate the code still working
18:11:44 <ais523> "do a, then (b then c)" is basically inherently equivalent to "do (a then b), then c" and I can't currently think of a way to break it even in an esolang
18:11:52 <ais523> maybe some sort of race condition/
18:11:55 <korvo> The correctness stems from the idea that a monoid can always be forcefully turned from a sequence into a (left-leaning?) tree, and then we can do induction and recursion.
18:12:55 <ais523> korvo: I was thinking of the converse: I agree the fact that it's a monoid makes it correct, *but* the approach seems conceptually correct even for non-monoids
18:13:12 <ais523> it's just that it's hard to verify how that works because it's hard to imagine the underlying operation being nonassociative
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18:13:32 <ais523> I guess it's easier to imagine the underlying operation not having an identity
18:14:27 <ais523> although that would be a weird language design exercise: to create a language where (e.g.) empty program and loop bodys aren't allowed, and there is no way to combine commands in order to produce a no-op
18:16:44 <korvo> Elements of bicategories are monads, so there's probably some flavor of Hilton-Eckmann argument nearby.
18:17:58 <korvo> Anyway, I'll come back to this eventually, if I find the motivation again.
18:18:12 <korvo> Sometimes contributing to this wiki makes me want to smash a keyboard against the wall.
18:20:24 <ais523> I frequently have trouble producing the motivation to do anything
18:27:15 <korvo> Well, I'll stop being a distraction.
18:27:39 <ais523> I'm not sure that distractions really hurt (except that sometimes I can't even get the motivation to go on IRC)
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18:28:57 <ais523> (to be clear, sometimes I'm offline for other reasons – if distractions would be a problem I just disconnect from the Internet)
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19:46:49 <int-e> . o O ( imagine using WASM just to get access to a 64 bit integer type )
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20:05:15 <esolangs> [[Monoid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157862&oldid=157859 * Aadenboy * (+8) marking this as a work in progress since some sections are blank
20:05:54 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157863&oldid=157860 * TheCatFromGithub * (+1856) explained the language
20:07:10 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157864&oldid=157863 * TheCatFromGithub * (+39) /* Examples */ add example
20:08:12 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157865&oldid=157864 * TheCatFromGithub * (+43)
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20:48:18 <int-e> Hmm, why is BV so isolated in https://smt-lib.org/logics.shtml (can't be combined with any (linear) arithmetic flavors)... I guess it's intentionally a fragment that can be bit-blasted?
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22:23:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Las-r * New user account
22:30:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157866&oldid=157837 * Las-r * (+260) introduction
22:30:41 <esolangs> [[Greed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157867 * Las-r * (+881) Create page.
22:32:28 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157868&oldid=157867 * Las-r * (-12) Fix formatting
22:33:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157869&oldid=157855 * Buckets * (+10)
22:34:11 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157870&oldid=157771 * Buckets * (+9)
22:34:24 <esolangs> [[Jil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157871 * Buckets * (+1401) Created page with "Jil is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | > || Set the Input to The current Target. |- | - || Set the Target to The Next character as A Variable. |- | < || Output The Current target I
22:35:25 <esolangs> [[Jil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157872&oldid=157871 * Buckets * (+1)
22:37:12 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157873&oldid=157868 * Las-r * (+109) Add links to source and creator.
22:39:47 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157874&oldid=157873 * Las-r * (+16)
22:42:14 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157875&oldid=157874 * Las-r * (+40) Add categories
22:42:53 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157876&oldid=157875 * Las-r * (+1) Fix categories
22:43:05 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157877&oldid=157876 * Las-r * (-3)
22:47:30 <esolangs> [[Treadnil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157878&oldid=148990 * BoundedBeans * (-1) Fixed Truth machine
22:47:40 <esolangs> [[WTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157879&oldid=157844 * H33T33 * (+592)
22:50:02 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157880&oldid=157877 * Las-r * (+85) Add more categories
22:53:01 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157881&oldid=152431 * Las-r * (+200) Add greed
22:54:50 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157882&oldid=157881 * Las-r * (-30) Fix formatting so greed doesnt get cut off
22:57:46 <esolangs> [[Greed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157883&oldid=157880 * Las-r * (+108) Add brainfuck inspiration
22:59:09 <b_jonas> ais523 "empty program and loop bodys aren't allowed, and there is no way to combine commands in order to produce a no-op" => you could do that with a hypothetical CPU where every instruction overwrites a result or flags register, so if you want to do a conditional branch with the status flags you have to put the branch instruction right after the compare instruction (with not even a function call or
22:59:15 <b_jonas> return between) and if you want to store the result of some arithmetic then you have to put the store right after the arithmetic instruction
23:01:58 <b_jonas> no no-op combinations because you can never preserve both result registers from the previous state, only one of the two
23:06:53 <b_jonas> or you could have a machine where every instruction writes exactly one of the eight generaly purpose registers, and the instruction can never read and write the same register, so you always lose the value of one of the eight
23:12:23 <b_jonas> heck, let's make that sillier, there are 9 general purpose registers, every instruction nominally has two register input arguments and one register output arguments and all three must be distinct, and the three register indexes together are encoded into a 9 bit field. some instructions ignore one or both nominal input registers, just to keep the operand encoding uniform, but the output register is
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00:49:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157884&oldid=157866 * Shazun bhasfu * (+248) /* Introductions */
01:03:02 <esolangs> [[Somp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157885 * Shazun bhasfu * (+855) the somp esolang!
01:03:19 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157886&oldid=157885 * Shazun bhasfu * (+1)
01:03:31 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157887&oldid=157886 * Shazun bhasfu * (+4)
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01:06:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157888&oldid=157554 * None1 * (+284) /* What counts as a machine? */
01:21:36 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157889 * None1 * (+965) Created page with ":{{Distinguish/Confusion|text=the non-esoteric machine language, which is the language used by the CPU directly.}} '''Machine-language''', as opposed to [[Anti-machine language]], is invented by [[User:None1]]. ==Execution== This esolang is the same as [[brainfu
01:21:45 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157890&oldid=157889 * None1 * (+0)
01:22:44 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157891&oldid=156958 * None1 * (+67) /* General languages */
01:23:10 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157892&oldid=157219 * None1 * (+66)
01:24:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157893&oldid=157846 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+136)
01:50:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157894&oldid=157893 * Hotcrystal0 * (+292)
01:50:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157895&oldid=157894 * Hotcrystal0 * (-162)
02:18:20 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157896&oldid=157865 * TheCatFromGithub * (+67)
02:31:35 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157897&oldid=157887 * Shazun bhasfu * (+41)
02:34:29 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157898&oldid=157897 * Aadenboy * (-52) fixing formatting
02:35:42 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157899&oldid=157898 * Shazun bhasfu * (+27)
02:36:49 <esolangs> [[Somp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157900&oldid=157899 * Shazun bhasfu * (+26)
02:36:58 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157901&oldid=157896 * TheCatFromGithub * (+2) fixed to be more consistent
02:38:02 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157902&oldid=157901 * Aadenboy * (-2) I assume you might want the link to be visible?
02:40:30 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157903&oldid=157902 * TheCatFromGithub * (+5) /* An explanation of shifting */ fixed some errors i made
03:51:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157904&oldid=157820 * PrySigneToFry * (+920)
05:10:02 <esolangs> [[Kyu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157905 * BoundedBeans * (+15968) Created page with "Kyu is a weird semi-esoteric language by [[User:BoundedBeans]] created for an unpublished scratch project of a weird console-only queue-based operating system called Kronos-QOS. However, the language is not very queue-based itself. Also, the language has many dependen
05:10:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157906&oldid=157869 * BoundedBeans * (+10)
05:11:33 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157907&oldid=153052 * BoundedBeans * (+154)
05:16:43 <esolangs> [[Kyu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157908&oldid=157905 * BoundedBeans * (+63) The visual basic thing isn't exact enough to be considered a conformant implementation
05:31:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157909&oldid=156951 * None1 * (+349) /* programming language */
06:01:16 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157910&oldid=157831 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+54)
06:02:49 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157911&oldid=157835 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-961) Replaced content with "no."
06:03:01 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157912&oldid=157910 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-45)
06:11:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * uploaded "[[File:Logica logo.png]]"
06:12:32 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157914&oldid=157841 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+61)
06:12:51 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157915&oldid=157914 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-1)
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07:17:31 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157916&oldid=157749 * Neon * (+1671)
07:19:30 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157917&oldid=157916 * Neon * (+97)
07:22:27 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157918&oldid=157917 * Neon * (+161)
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07:45:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:SETANDCOUNT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157920 * Cycwin * (+74) Created page with "Can someone help me...Maybe it can realize one-register minsky machine?..."
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09:30:35 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157921&oldid=157112 * C++DSUCKER * (+0)
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10:44:01 <esolangs> [[Logica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157922&oldid=157915 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+166)
10:49:24 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157923&oldid=157912 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+45)
10:49:33 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157924&oldid=157911 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+961)
11:06:05 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157925&oldid=157924 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+1298)
11:06:36 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157926&oldid=157925 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+10)
11:07:20 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157927&oldid=157926 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+84)
11:19:47 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157928&oldid=157927 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+1223)
11:21:01 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157929&oldid=157928 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+3)
11:21:49 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157930&oldid=157929 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+54)
11:22:52 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157931&oldid=157930 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-3)
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11:44:57 <wib_jonas> ais523: the change in Rustc 1.87.0, does that solve whatever problem you had with writing vectorized code that dispatches between CPU types in rust? or does this address a different problem?
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12:37:45 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157932&oldid=157903 * TheCatFromGithub * (+95) /* Examples */ add example
12:40:55 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157933&oldid=157725 * Hotcrystal0 * (+29)
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13:03:56 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157934&oldid=157931 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (-1) /* Example program */
13:08:53 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157935&oldid=157932 * TheCatFromGithub * (+26) /* Hello, World! */ better
13:10:04 <esolangs> [[User:H. H. P. M. P. Cole/Modulo 2 v2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157936&oldid=157934 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+97)
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13:42:48 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Sus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157937 * PrySigneToFry * (+867) Created page with "So we can clean out this category. --[[User:PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:blue;background:yellow;"></span>]][[User talk:PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:aqua;background:red;"></span>]]Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:red;backgroun
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13:55:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157938&oldid=157909 * None1 * (+320) /* programming language */
13:58:18 <esolangs> [[XVector]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157939 * None1 * (+1024) Created page with "'''xVector''' is an [[OISC]] invented by [[User:None1]] and inspired by [[Vector]], it uses a 3-dimensional vector. Instead of dot product, it uses cross product. ==Data== As said above, Vector uses a 3D vector called ''A'', it is initially (0,0,0). A vector literal is r
13:58:32 <esolangs> [[XVector]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157940&oldid=157939 * None1 * (+14)
13:58:50 <esolangs> [[XVector]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157941&oldid=157940 * None1 * (+0)
13:59:47 <esolangs> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157942&oldid=157655 * None1 * (+183) /* List of OISCs */
14:06:30 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157943&oldid=157933 * PrySigneToFry * (+286)
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14:48:19 <esolangs> [[Irma]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157944&oldid=157919 * Neon * (+283)
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18:17:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157945&oldid=131504 * Hotcrystal0 * (+331)
18:19:06 <esolangs> [[User:MathR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157946&oldid=83925 * MathR * (-68) Blanked the page
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18:47:19 <ais523> <wib_jonas> ais523: the change in Rustc 1.87.0, does that solve whatever problem you had with writing vectorized code that dispatches between CPU types in rust? ← it helps, in that it makes a solution possible
18:47:49 <ais523> but it isn't a complete solution – you still have to write the functions multiple times with different target_feature flags, it just reduces the amount of unsafe you have to use
18:48:58 <ais523> I like your "every instruction overwrites a register that wasn't an input" construction, it seems to give a clear path to creating a language with no syntactic monoid
18:54:05 <esolangs> [[Afth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157947&oldid=153612 * Lykaina * (-2) /* Arrays */ changing 16384 to 256
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18:57:08 <esolangs> [[Afth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157948&oldid=157947 * Lykaina * (+6) /* Core Instructions */ updating to current
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18:59:42 <fizzie> Oh, oh, it's Eurovision time again.
19:00:57 <esolangs> [[Afth/ASCII-Core]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157949&oldid=152469 * Lykaina * (+0) /* ASCII-Sorted Core Instructions */ updating to current
19:06:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157950&oldid=157127 * Lykaina * (+161) /* Afth Language */
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22:28:50 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157951&oldid=157906 * Buckets * (+12)
22:29:21 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157952&oldid=157870 * Buckets * (+11)
22:29:38 <esolangs> [[28]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157953 * Buckets * (+3078) Created page with "28 is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2025. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | || Start A String. |- | || End a string. |- | { || Start A List. |- | } || End a list, You csn only Make an Empty set. |- | \\ || Name the l
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22:50:44 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Yomikoma * New user account
22:53:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157954&oldid=157884 * Yomikoma * (+232)
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22:59:01 <esolangs> [[Mystical]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157955 * Yomikoma * (+357) Start page
23:04:22 <zzo38> I thought that in a operating system with capabilities, maybe it will be necessary to add two kind of capabilities: communication capabilities and identification capabilities. (They are the same to the CPU, but the operating system kernel treats them differently.)
23:05:58 <zzo38> Identification capabilities cannot be used for communication (trying to send to it is like a disconnected capability and trying to receive from it produces nothing), but the process that created a identification capability (and only that process; no others) can tell that it is a identification capability and can read/write data it stores (probably a single 64-bit value is sufficient; it can be an address if more data is needed).
23:06:47 <zzo38> Or, maybe such a thing can be done better in a different way.
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23:25:01 <impomatic> There's a nano Core War tournament if anyone's interested, $100 first prize. You just have to program a 5-instruction warrior (or evolve one with something like Yace). http://inversed.ru/CoreWar_Challenge_2.htm
23:27:46 <int-e> impomatic: I revisited this old thing: https://old.reddit.com/r/box256/comments/4dtkwb/official_leaderboard/mmof14w/ (and many more improvement to other pictures, all in that thread0
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00:17:29 <esolangs> [[TrumpScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157956&oldid=139796 * H33T33 * (+1)
00:21:19 <ais523> impomatic: I'm surprised that just five instructions is enough to create a sufficient spread of different possible strategies
00:21:42 <ais523> I guess it's at about the point where most of the basic strategies can be just-about implemented
00:22:32 <ais523> can scissors be done in five? it might be possible with code-golfing tricks, but seems like it might need a little more
00:50:21 <esolangs> [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157957&oldid=133460 * PrySigneToFry * (+19)
00:53:35 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157958&oldid=157890 * PrySigneToFry * (+173)
00:59:48 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157959&oldid=157958 * None1 * (+57)
01:00:06 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157960&oldid=157959 * None1 * (+0)
01:00:50 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157961&oldid=157951 * None1 * (+14) /* X */
01:01:28 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157962&oldid=157892 * None1 * (+75) /* My Esolangs */
01:02:54 <esolangs> [[Machine-language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157963&oldid=157960 * None1 * (+18) /* Hello, World! */
01:03:20 <esolangs> [[Anti-Machine language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157964&oldid=157652 * None1 * (+18)
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02:50:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFryAltered]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157965 * PrySigneToFry * (+487) Created page with "This account only be used when PrySigneToFry forgot his password. = WARNING = <span style='color:red;font-family:Segoe UI;'>THIS ACCOUNT SHOULD ONLY BE USED WHEN PRYSIGNETOFRY LOG OUT AND TRY TO CANCEL HIS ACCOUNT. IF ANY EDITS APPEARS ON TH
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05:37:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157966&oldid=157904 * PrySigneToFry * (+928)
05:42:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * I am islptng * moved [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] to [[LinearModulo2]]: Misspelled title
05:42:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * I am islptng * moved [[User talk:I am islptng/Draft]] to [[Talk:LinearModulo2]]: Misspelled title
05:43:52 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157971&oldid=157968 * I am islptng * (+60) Removed redirect to [[LinearModulo2]]
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07:31:45 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157972&oldid=157971 * I am islptng * (+318)
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08:58:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EsolangFloris * New user account
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09:07:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157973&oldid=157954 * EsolangFloris * (+247) Add my description thingy
09:15:57 <esolangs> [[User:EsolangFloris]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157974 * EsolangFloris * (+271) User page
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11:17:47 <esolangs> [[Semistack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157975 * PrySigneToFry * (+3488) Created page with "Semistack is an Esoteric programming language designed by PSTF for all beginners of stack structure. It has a stack, and it will be Turing-complete. = Overview of Semistack = Semistack doesn't ignore case, so every command should all in lowercase(or be parsed
11:19:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157976&oldid=157961 * PrySigneToFry * (+16)
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13:13:21 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157977&oldid=157943 * Hotcrystal0 * (+34) Just so you know, you are not allowed to lock the rules on the main board.
13:16:15 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157978&oldid=156654 * PrySigneToFry * (+22)
13:20:54 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157979&oldid=155709 * PrySigneToFry * (+10)
13:28:18 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/My new brief introduction]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157980 * PrySigneToFry * (+1176) Created page with "This is my new brief introduction. = Text = I'm PrySigneToFry. By chance, I appeared here, a mysterious realm. At that time, the first page I visited was [[Befunge]]. In the first few mon
13:28:38 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157981&oldid=155527 * PrySigneToFry * (+90)
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16:05:56 <esolangs> [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157982&oldid=152272 * Krolkrol * (+39)
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16:24:14 <esolangs> [[Afth/ASCII-Core]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157983&oldid=157949 * Lykaina * (+6) /* ASCII-Sorted Core Instructions */ updating to current
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18:42:24 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157984&oldid=157838 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+18)
18:52:13 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157985&oldid=157833 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+330)
19:01:07 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157986&oldid=157985 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+428)
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01:44:18 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157987&oldid=157979 * I am islptng * (-13)
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05:23:34 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157988 * Undalevein * (+14794) Added Timeline language, still working on it but I only saving progress.
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05:53:37 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157989&oldid=157988 * Undalevein * (-273) Finished working on the Language Overview (for now)
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06:00:36 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157990&oldid=157989 * Undalevein * (+530) Added example programs.
06:04:25 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157991&oldid=157990 * Undalevein * (+10) Changed Unknown Usability to Unknown Computational Class
06:06:04 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157992&oldid=157991 * Undalevein * (+53) Changed quotations to <code>
06:06:57 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157993&oldid=157992 * Undalevein * (+0) Not being careful with typos, sorry.
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06:34:45 <esolangs> [[User:Undalevein]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157994 * Undalevein * (+135) Added a small bio.
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08:58:12 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157995&oldid=157480 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+863)
09:12:10 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157996&oldid=157995 * I am islptng * (+76) /* Commands */
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10:25:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:Semistack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=157997 * I am islptng * (+677) Created page with "Another [[SLet (Old 3)|Slet 3]] Derivative??? Interesting. --~~~~"
11:18:23 <gry> APic: may i ask how are you
11:18:30 <gry> what you doing here
11:19:01 <gry> i wanna figure out what you working on. i code in perl and a bit js
11:21:15 * APic just breakfasts a Butter-Brezn
11:21:22 <APic> No active Projects currently
11:24:49 <gry> hm, what you special in?
11:31:45 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157998&oldid=157993 * Undalevein * (-2) Changed the Hello, World program to work in the latest update.
11:32:42 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=157999&oldid=157998 * Undalevein * (-11) Fixed weird grammar/contextual issue.
11:32:42 * APic can code in C, C++, x86/x64/ARM-Assembly, Perl, Python, Java and JavaScript
11:32:53 <APic> And some BrainFuck
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11:41:29 <gry> do you know of some platfirm for byte sized content
11:41:33 <gry> like duolingo
11:41:44 <gry> but where i can add my own "course"
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12:52:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158000&oldid=157895 * Hotcrystal0 * (+479)
12:53:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158001&oldid=158000 * Hotcrystal0 * (-163)
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13:02:43 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158002&oldid=157996 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
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13:16:19 <wib_jonas> there's something I don't understand about inter-thread mutex interfaces. so we have all these multithreading library interfaces, including Posix threads, C++11 threads, C11 threads, rust std::sync.
13:16:24 <wib_jonas> they each have their own mutex and once_flag implementations that are incompatible with other libraries but have similar semantics for inter-thread synchronization. what I find weird is how the mutex and once_flag are created and destroyed.
13:16:29 <wib_jonas> the linux implementation of posix threads has the easiest to use interface. both mutexes and once_flags are just pure memory, they can be initialized by a C constant initializer, and you can just forget about either of them without calling a destructor without leaking any resuorce.
13:16:33 <wib_jonas> this makes sense, because you can effectively implement these with an atomic flag and a linked list of nodes that the waiters allocate on the stack.
13:16:38 <wib_jonas> in the contented case, the waiter blocks a signal, atomically pushes itself to the wake-up list by adding its thread-id, verifies that the lock flag is still set, then sigwaits for the signal, then atomically checks-and-sets the flag, then atomically pops himself from the wake-up list.
13:17:03 <wib_jonas> when the thread that was holding the mutex unlocks, it atomically clears the flag then pthread_kills the first thread in the wake-up list.
13:17:07 <wib_jonas> or something like that, maybe I got the sequence a bit wrong here.
13:17:11 <wib_jonas> the C11, C++, Rust interfaces are a bit less general: they all give you a constructor and destructor function for mutexes, so a mutex can hold resources like operating system handles. this makes sense, they want to be general so they can be implemented on any system.
13:17:14 <wib_jonas> the posix threads interface as POSIX defines it also gives you a constructor and destructor function. but it also says that instead of calling the constructor, you can just use a static initializer.
13:17:37 <wib_jonas> further, https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/pthread_mutex_destroy.3p.html has the weird statement "Attempting to initialize an already initialized mutex results in undefined behavior".
13:17:40 <wib_jonas> what kind of implementation would ever need such a strong guarantee that you aren't allowed to leak a mutex and overwrite the memory containing the structure even if you promise never to use it again?
13:17:44 <wib_jonas> but the weirdest part is the once_flag. neither the posix threads pthread_once_t and C11 once_flag type have no destructors, and both can be statically initialized.
13:17:47 <wib_jonas> but the weirdest part is the once_flag. neither the posix threads pthread_once_t and C11 once_flag type have no destructors, and both can be statically initialized.
13:17:50 <wib_jonas> how come mutexes can leak resources if you don't destroy them, but once_flag can somehow be implemented such that it doesn't hold any resources?
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13:32:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158003&oldid=157674 * Cycwin * (+89) /* uhhhhhhhhhhhhh */ new section
14:01:52 <wib_jonas> in the context of a memory tracker that tries to run your program in a slower way where it tracks every memory allocation and free that you do and tries to find where you dereference a stray pointer or where you are accessing a library type that is supposed to be opaque in a way that the library interface doesn't expose for it. if you have a type
14:01:52 <wib_jonas> like the linux pthreads interface's mutex which normally doesn't need a destructor because it doesn't hold anything outside the structure, but the safety checked version does need to be destroyed or else it leaks resources, that can be annoying.
14:09:26 <wib_jonas> for a type that does have a destructor, there's no problem: if the debugged program leaks one without calling the destructor, it would already leak at least memory, so it's fine if the safety checker leaks more resources to track it.
14:19:03 <esolangs> [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158004&oldid=158001 * Hotcrystal0 * (-316)
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14:33:18 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158005&oldid=156250 * Hotcrystal0 * (+46)
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15:38:16 <wib_jonas> Windows 11 file explorer claims that the size of a file is "1,01,903 KB", and if I open the properties popup then it says that the file size is more precisely "99.5 MB (10,43,47,972 bytes)". Is this a normal way to place commas in some locales, or is there something weird going on here?
15:48:41 <wib_jonas> it looks like it is a thing in some locales. but I hadn't realized that this computer was set up that way.
15:56:22 <int-e> > (104347872 / 2^10, 104347872 / 2^20) -- rounded up, rounded down?
15:56:36 <int-e> wib_jonas: that looks quite atrocious
15:57:50 <wib_jonas> I had thought the digit grouping separators were always at multiples of some distance (usually 3 or 4) away from the decimal point. but apparently computer people find the weirdest format that is ever used in real life and build it into the locale and timezones systems.
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16:40:04 <fizzie> That's the "Indian style", isn't it?
16:43:36 <fizzie> Makes the commas match with the local languages having words for 100,000 and 10,000,000 (and apparently higher quantities with more factors of 10² too).
16:55:59 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158006&oldid=157999 * Undalevein * (+26) Fixed contextual issues and changed the symbol order
16:56:32 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158007&oldid=158006 * Undalevein * (+5) Fixed bio link
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17:22:46 <int-e> Fun to see g++ outperform clang++ by a factor of 3 (on a particular tight number-crunching loop).
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18:07:52 <int-e> woah something has gone seriously wrong with clang's register allocation in this case: https://paste.rs/ca13U.txt (top: clang++, bottom: g++ ...this is the hot part of the code though that may not be obvious to the compiler)
18:09:55 <int-e> Hmm hmm. I guess one thing that makes this code bigger and increases register pressure is that it unrolled the loop.
18:15:30 <int-e> No, I don't think so. GCC just did better strength reduction, so one of the multiplication is now an addition (leaq).
18:18:33 <int-e> Oh, no, not the leaq; it's the addq %rbp, %r8. Sorry for the monolog, will move on now :-)
18:24:02 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158008&oldid=157986 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+52)
18:31:34 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158009&oldid=158008 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+400)
18:34:19 <int-e> Well, if I do that transformation manually, clang++ and g++ produce code of virtually equal speed.
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18:41:57 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158010&oldid=158009 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+634)
18:51:18 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158011&oldid=158010 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+434) /* Expressions */
18:51:45 <zzo38> If making a better programming language than C, I think that I would avoid the confusing syntax for types that C has, I would avoid Unicode, I would avoid using "0" alone as the prefix for octal numbers ("0o" would be better), I would avoid confusions with the syntax such as "/*" for comments even though "/" followed by "*" would be meaningful, and I would avoid some of the more modern stuff in other programming languages that I think
18:52:41 <zzo38> However, I would also think to add things, such as customizing the linking in a more elaborate way, which is something that C doesn't do and I think most others also don't do. Being able to specify that a variable has the same address as another variable also can sometimes be useful.
18:53:15 <b_jonas> if an esoteric programming language has two variants and one of them is a wimpmode then what would you call the other?
18:55:30 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158012&oldid=158011 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+66) /* Expressions */
18:56:25 <zzo38> Maybe you will call it "not-wimpmode", but maybe there will be a better name
18:57:08 <int-e> Hrm. I think I messed up that speed test. clang++ is still slow on this code. It did get rid of the extra imul though.
18:58:26 <int-e> zzo38: maybe you'd like Rust ;-)
18:59:47 <zzo38> Rust uses Unicode and I think also does not have a "goto" command like C (someone told me that the goto command in Rust is only usable for case blocks; C doesn't have this and I think it would be useful to have both uses of goto)
19:00:17 <int-e> well, you wanted something better than C ;-)
19:01:35 <int-e> I do think Rust's type syntax is pretty neat. Except maybe for function types.
19:02:05 <zzo38> In my opinion, most of the programming languages that they try to make better than C have various problems (and some of the things they add into new versions of C are also not so good, although some (such as the #embed command) are good)
19:02:16 <int-e> OTOH, Go's type syntax looks terrible.
19:02:27 <int-e> C's may be objectively bad but I'm used to it. ;-)
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19:18:52 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158013&oldid=158007 * Undalevein * (+63) Added Truth Machine Example
19:19:15 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158014&oldid=158013 * Undalevein * (+2) Fixed header type
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19:22:00 <esolangs> [[Timeline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158015&oldid=158014 * Undalevein * (+2) Header revisions
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19:54:56 <fizzie> Hey, what's wrong with Go's types?
19:55:04 <fizzie> (I guess I might just have gotten used to them.)
19:58:54 <b_jonas> yeah, I'm also used to C's type syntax so I try to write f32[8] instead of [f32;8] for the array type in rust. the actual rust syntax just isn't in my finger yet.
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20:18:25 <zzo38> I made up a ASN1_IDENTIFIED_DATA type but I don't know if that is really a good name or if a better name should be used instead. One use of this type is to identify the format and meaning of a DER file if used at top level (although it can also be used in other levels), but has other uses too.
20:19:28 <zzo38> It starts with a set of object identifiers, object descriptors, and/or sequences that start with a object identifier, and these identify the format (if there is more than one, any one of them (other than object descriptors) can be used; this way, a subset or special case of a file format can be identified). The second item is any value of any type.
20:21:05 <zzo38> (There is also an optional third item.)
20:21:18 <zzo38> Do you think there should be a different better name for such a thing?
20:35:29 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158016&oldid=157315 * Undalevein * (+27) Added Vyxal Example
20:57:00 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158017 * Helpeesl * (+331) Created page with "User programmed is an esolang experiment created on May 19th 2025 by [[user:helpeesl]] where you give this page a program and what it does, and Ill try to make a working esolang that does all programs correctly. == Programs == == What I think the commands are =
20:58:06 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158018&oldid=157935 * TheCatFromGithub * (+73) new feature
20:58:38 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158019&oldid=158018 * TheCatFromGithub * (+0) needs to be there
21:04:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158020&oldid=158003 * Ractangle * (+173) /* uhhhhhhhhhhhhh */
21:07:47 <esolangs> [[Postrado]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158021&oldid=154467 * Ractangle * (-20) /* With functions */
21:11:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158022&oldid=158020 * Aadenboy * (+411) /* uhhhhhhhhhhhhh */
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21:29:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158023&oldid=158017 * Hotcrystal0 * (+334)
21:29:40 <esolangs> [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158024&oldid=156111 * Ractangle * (-163) /* See also */
21:29:50 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158025&oldid=158023 * Hotcrystal0 * (+20)
21:30:16 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158026&oldid=155010 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Stuff to continue */
21:30:49 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158027&oldid=158025 * Hotcrystal0 * (-63)
21:32:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:User programmed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158028 * Hotcrystal0 * (+298) Created page with "This first program should be an easy one to guess. ~~~~"
21:32:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158029&oldid=157693 * Ractangle * (+213) /* Movie */
21:34:09 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158030&oldid=158019 * TheCatFromGithub * (+98)
21:34:33 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158031&oldid=158027 * Helpeesl * (+140)
21:36:06 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158032&oldid=158031 * Hotcrystal0 * (+89)
21:36:15 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158033&oldid=158032 * Hotcrystal0 * (+248)
21:36:49 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158034&oldid=158033 * Hotcrystal0 * (+16)
21:37:27 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158035&oldid=158034 * Hotcrystal0 * (+67)
21:38:43 <esolangs> [[Template:Wip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158036&oldid=140647 * Ractangle * (-3) Redirected page to [[Template:WIP]]
21:39:18 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158037&oldid=158035 * Hotcrystal0 * (+114)
21:39:32 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158038&oldid=158037 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
21:47:17 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158039&oldid=158038 * Helpeesl * (+69)
21:52:58 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158040&oldid=158039 * Hotcrystal0 * (+100)
21:54:31 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158041&oldid=158040 * Hotcrystal0 * (-303)
21:56:33 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158042&oldid=158041 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
21:56:54 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158043&oldid=158042 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
21:57:03 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158044&oldid=158043 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7)
21:59:25 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158045&oldid=158044 * Helpeesl * (+199)
22:00:52 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158046&oldid=158045 * Hotcrystal0 * (+73)
22:01:07 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158047&oldid=158046 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
22:02:14 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158048&oldid=158047 * Hotcrystal0 * (+41)
22:02:50 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158049&oldid=158048 * Helpeesl * (+110)
22:03:33 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158050&oldid=158049 * Helpeesl * (+29)
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22:53:23 <esolangs> [[Nymal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158067 * Buckets * (+3149) Created page with "Nymal is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | #"" || Push number to The top Stack. |- | "" || Push String to The top Stack. |- | < || Push Input to The top Stack as a String. |- | >
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23:22:19 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158069&oldid=158066 * Hotcrystal0 * (+138) Reorganizing the commands part + 15-17
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23:59:29 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158079&oldid=158016 * Undalevein * (+90) Added a more golfed version for the Python Code (I just had to)
00:58:31 <esolangs> [[APGsembly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158080 * I am islptng * (+11920) Just want to port this here.
01:19:46 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158081&oldid=157857 * Dadsdy * (+111) /* External Resources */
01:49:56 <esolangs> [[Burnlike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158082&oldid=157417 * PkmnQ * (+3) /* Ruleset */ this seems more fitting
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03:08:00 <zzo38> I had read about reversible computing that they will save power compared with other computers. However, maybe there might also be possibility making a kind of hybrid computing if it helps.
03:08:26 <zzo38> ChaCha20 has a reversible part and then a final part that is not reversible.
03:10:11 <zzo38> If you have C operators += -= ^= then you can also have locking, with shared locking for each use of each variable on the right, and exclusive locking for each use of each variable on the left (but, you would also have array bound checking and without using other kind of pointers). A counted loop will have shared locking on the repeat count and on the variable to count each iteration.
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03:27:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Noewaeda * New user account
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04:42:13 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158083 * Rombito * (+2080) Created page with "'''Wheddo''' is an esolang made and posted onto this wiki by [[user:Rombito]]. ==The Languages== A singular line in a Wheddo Program is structured into 2 parts: # The ID # and the Code Here, there will only be an explanation of the ID since the code is self-explanatory.
04:45:00 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158084&oldid=158083 * Rombito * (+72)
04:45:23 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158085&oldid=158084 * Rombito * (-21)
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04:49:02 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158087&oldid=158086 * Rombito * (+22)
04:49:46 <esolangs> [[User:Rombito]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158088 * Rombito * (+63) Created page with "<b style="color:blue">I am rombito, and I do rombito things</b>"
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05:39:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158091&oldid=157938 * Cycwin * (+366) /* Any interests on joining our Esolang Tencent QQ group? */
05:40:47 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158092&oldid=158064 * Rombito * (+13) /* W */
05:50:29 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158093&oldid=157966 * Cycwin * (+29) /* Where are you from, and how can you understand Chinese? */
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07:41:06 <esolangs> [[Fn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158097&oldid=156970 * C0ffee * (-1) /* Examples */
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08:14:55 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158098 * C0ffee * (+1324) Created page with "'''Brafunge''' is a cell-based language inspired by [[brainfuck]] and [[Befunge]]. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" !Commands !Description |- | <code>></code> || Move the pointer to right. |- | <code><</code> || Move the pointer to left. |- | <code>+</code> || Incr
08:15:09 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158099&oldid=158098 * C0ffee * (-8)
08:38:06 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158100&oldid=158099 * C0ffee * (+192)
08:38:23 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158101&oldid=158100 * C0ffee * (+1) /* Examples */
08:41:02 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158102&oldid=158101 * C0ffee * (+27) /* Commands */
08:41:28 <esolangs> [[User:C0ffee]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158103&oldid=156973 * C0ffee * (+15)
08:42:16 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158104&oldid=158102 * C0ffee * (-3) /* Examples */
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09:00:39 <ais523> <int-e> woah something has gone seriously wrong with clang's register allocation in this case: https://paste.rs/ca13U.txt ← if this is hot code, I would seriously consider moving the movabs-es outside the loop, although I *think* they're not the limiting factor here (a good approximation is that you can decode 12 instructions while doing a multiplication nowadays, and there are 10 instructions in the body of the loop if you count cmp+je and cmp+jb as one
09:00:41 <ais523> instruction each, so it shouldn't be blocked on decode)
09:01:29 <ais523> but gcc's move into %rdx is clearly movable outside the loop except in cases where %rdx needs to be preserved if the first iteration does the jump to .L24
09:07:48 <ais523> int-e: was the clang code compiled without optimisation? it moves a constant into %rax then immediately adds a constant to %rax, and I'd expect just about any compiler to be able to optimise that
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09:35:56 <ais523> b_jonas: I think many modern languages have been avoiding postfix [] for naming array types because they have a prefix operator that acts on types (e.g. pointer/reference formation), and it can make types hard to read and write unambiguously if you have both prefix and postfix operators
09:36:35 <ais523> Rust's [T; LENGTH] notation is clever because being circumfix, it's unambiguous no matter what operators you put inside or around it
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09:40:12 <ais523> now I'm thinking about how array formation is one of the few two-argument operators that acts on types, but I'm not sure I've seen an infix syntax for it in any remotely recent language
09:40:28 <ais523> I think there's some really old language where you can do INTEGER*100 or the like to make an array, but forget which one, and doubt it nests
09:41:12 <ais523> forming product types is also a two-argument operator that acts on types, that's normally called (T, U) but I think I've seen * for it
09:41:45 <ais523> and forming sum types is interesting as that often doesn't have syntax at all, even in languages with sum types
09:41:52 <wib_jonas> ais523: well C++ kind of has std::array<mytype, mylength>
09:42:15 <ais523> wib_jonas: that's similar to the Rust way of doing things
09:43:21 <ais523> I guess you don't want to be able to declare something as "Int + String" (disjoint union) as that makes actual uses of the type difficult; because it could be "Int + Int" the syntax for accessing cases would have to be written by index
09:44:54 <ais523> OCaml lets you do [`I of int | `S of string] to create a disjoint union on the fly, with custom names for the variants
09:46:30 <ais523> I have been thinking for a while that possibly a good solution to this is to have newtypes that can be created on the fly, plus unions where all the options have to be different newtypes
09:54:48 <strerror> T*N would be a confusing array syntax as it isn't associative: (T*N)*M ≠ T*(N*M)
09:56:35 <ais523> it's sort-of associative, the former gives you a two-dimensional array, the latter gives you a one-dimensional array with the same total number of elements
09:56:45 <ais523> the types would be identical in a language that indexed by byte count rather than element count
09:57:07 <ais523> err, if it were weakly typed enough
10:09:08 <wib_jonas> ais523: so in naming types, the problem with the C syntax is that the variable name goes in the middle. everyone realized that this was a bad idea, so in a variable declaration, digitalmars D always puts the variable name after the whole type name, while Rust and golang and ziglang put the variable name before the whole type name. IIUC digitalmars
10:09:08 <wib_jonas> D and golang still uses the order return type then function name then argument list to define functions, but this only applies at the top nesting level, and for declaring function pointers a different syntax is used that keeps the whole typename together with the variable name still after the type in D and before the type in golang.
10:11:58 <fizzie> FORTRAN has a `TYPE*n` syntax, but it's not for arrays, it's for indicating different "variants" of the same type. So you have (standard) `CHARACTER*n` for any n > 0 for a fixed-length string; and you have (nonstandard) `INTEGER*2`, `INTEGER*4` and `INTEGER*8` types for different-sized integers; and you have `REAL*4` and `REAL*8` for two kinds of floats.
10:13:35 <ais523> wib_jonas: right, in general I think it is useful to be able to name a type without having a specific identifier representing the type name in the middle of the syntax
10:13:47 <ais523> this comes up in C with function pointers – they need an argument list but the arguments aren't named
10:15:55 <fizzie> (Looks like Fortran 90 changed `CHARACTER*123` into `character(len=123)`, too.)
10:17:58 <ais523> ooh, I just realised that maybe type * type should be a syntax for declaring a map type (value * key)
10:18:08 <wib_jonas> but there's a something strange here: in digitalmars D type operators go on the right of the base type like `double[8] v;` or around it; in Rust and golang and zig type operators go on the left of the base type like `v: &mut double` in rust and `v [8]f64` in golang and `v: [8]f64` in ziglang, or around it. so the simple type operators always go in
10:18:08 <wib_jonas> the middle. how come nobody is using a syntax where there are simple type operators that go only on one side of the type, but they're on the far side of the variable name?
10:18:26 <ais523> that generalizes the idea of type * int being an array, because an array is a map from indexes to values
10:19:26 <ais523> wib_jonas: I'm almost wondering if there's some parser ambiguity in doing that, but I can't immediately think of one
10:19:51 <ais523> (also, "double" isn't a Rust type)
10:20:25 <wib_jonas> so `v: &mut f64` in rust and `v [8]dobule` in golang and `v: [8]f64` in ziglang
10:20:48 <fizzie> C++ `std::tuple` has that property where you can access the individual fields by type if but only if they're distinct types, and have to fall back to indices if not.
10:21:13 <fizzie> `double` isn't a Go type either, the types are `float32` and `float64`.
10:21:16 <HackEso> double`? No such file or directory
10:23:07 <ais523> I think using lowercase names for primitive types in Rust was a mistake, given that all the standard-library-defined types are upper-camelcase
10:23:31 <ais523> I've definitely written code that had a bunch of temporary variables i1, i2, i3, etc.
10:23:52 <ais523> and although you can name a variable the same thing as a primitive type in Rust, so when I reached i8 the code still worked, it looked weird in an editor
10:24:33 <ais523> (Rust always needs to know whether it's parsing a type or a value so that it can work out whether >> is a bitshift or two closing brackets, so it allows types and values to have the same name as each other)
10:25:17 <wib_jonas> ok hold on, doesn't standard ML put the type constructor on the right and its argument on the left, and the name before the type, so you effectively end up with an order like `v: int list` which is similar to putting type operators on the outside?
10:26:10 <strerror> I guess Rust's `t: &mut T` was chosen to mimic the operator `&mut t`. (Just like in C, `T t[N];` was chosen to mimic the operator `t[n]`. Why would anyone find that confusing?)
10:26:51 <wib_jonas> so now we just need to find a language that can put the type modifier first, then the type, then the variable name.
10:28:06 <wib_jonas> and if there's no such language yet then we have to make one
10:28:06 <ais523> wib_jonas: OCaml uses that order too
10:28:10 <strerror> Speaking of parsing, the normal way round might be easier because there's usually not many ways to write a variable name
10:28:15 <ais523> which isn't surprising, also being an ML
10:29:00 <ais523> but, I think you're misinterpreting the ML order
10:29:17 <ais523> because for two-argument type constructors the syntax is IIRC dict: (string, int) map
10:29:26 <ais523> so, "int" is modifying "list" here rather than vice versa
10:30:14 <ais523> I guess you could compare to Haskell, which uses a similar syntax but in reverse: dict :: Map String Int
10:31:33 <fizzie> Go's map types are named `map[K]V`, is that a circumfix or a prefix operator, or both, or neither?
10:32:49 <ais523> postcircumfix is fairly common (object.method(args)), but I don't think I've seen a precircumfix operator before
10:35:28 <ais523> I guess [8]f64 is precircumfix too, so Go is being consistent there
10:35:58 <wib_jonas> huh, http://rosettacode.org/ is not reachable. that would be a useful way to look for various syntax.
10:37:42 <ais523> Wikipedia says it's www.rosettacode.org but that isn't reachable either
10:38:11 <fizzie> cppreference.com was being unusuably slow for me as well (wanted to double-check the std::tuple thing).
10:38:59 <ais523> I wonder whether these are side effects of the scraperbots
10:39:17 <ais523> although Rosetta Code was acting like it was intentionally down rather than overloaded
10:39:19 <wib_jonas> ais523: I think precircumfix for declaring arrays, with the type on the right and the size in the middle, is used in algol and pascal, so it's very old
10:39:31 <fizzie> I _think_ std::variant does the same thing as std::tuple w.r.t. allowing std::get<type>(x) if `type` uniquely determines the member.
10:39:46 <fizzie> (And std::get<N>(x) with an index in any case.)
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10:41:03 <wib_jonas> fizzie: I think I have a downloaded copy of the important parts of cppreference.com at home, in case it disappears
10:41:42 <ais523> oddly I don't think I've used it
10:41:50 <ais523> generally for reading up on C and C++ I use draft standards
10:42:13 <ais523> that said, I don't program in C++ much – mostly it's just to modify pre-existing C++ programs, and the ones I work with are generally written in very old dialects of C++
10:44:35 <fizzie> It's convenient for (informally) checking which standard version introduced a thing, since they're pretty good at having "since C++17" style annotations where appropriate.
10:45:22 <wib_jonas> ais523: in Haskell, `let { DECLARATIONS } in EXPRESSION` is a postcircumfix operator that gives an expression
10:45:57 <ais523> you mean precircumfix?
10:46:07 <ais523> OCaml does that too, let a = b in c
10:46:52 <wib_jonas> also C typecasts are precircumfix like (double)4
10:47:00 <ais523> I should probably learn C23 at some point, primarily out of curiosity – newer versions of C don't seem so useful given that I expect most newer programs to be written in some safer language nowadays
10:49:10 <wib_jonas> I'm trying to understand something about the library interface of inter-thread synchronization, I asked yesterday starting from https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-05-19.html#l3 , I think some of you might be able to help because I think I'm missing something here
10:53:23 <wib_jonas> also, the SIGBOVIK 2025 proceedings have been released for like a week now. I have read only little of it so far, but it's SIGBOVIK so there'll probably be parts interesting or inspiring to this community in there
10:53:49 <ais523> it wouldn't surprise me if the pthreads API fundamentally didn't make sense
10:55:12 <ais523> wib_jonas: <POSIX> The pthread_mutex_destroy() function shall destroy the mutex object referenced by mutex; the mutex object becomes, in effect, uninitialized.
10:55:38 <ais523> I think this explains it: it *uninitialises* a mutex obejct, which is why calling it twice is UB (because you're calling it on an uninitialised variable)
10:56:50 <ais523> I can imagine a pthreads implementation where statically initialised mutexes are pointers to static variables that store mutex state, whereas pthread_mutex_init()ed mutexes are pointers to dynamically allocated memory
10:57:05 <ais523> I'm not sure that that's necessarily a sensible implementation, but it seems to be consistent with the standard
10:57:29 <wib_jonas> ais523: pthread_mutex_destroy twice is an undefined behavior makes sense, sure, my problem is why the manual says that pthread_mutex_init twice is an undefined behavior instead of just a resource leak. unless there is some pre-initialization that I must do before I call pthread_mutex_init, but if there is I don't know of it
10:58:11 <ais523> the POSIX rationale talks about machines which have a special sort of memory for storing mutexes, and where statically initialised mutexes allocate it lazily
10:59:29 <ais523> oh, it does mention why double-initialising is UB – it's to allow the implementation to return an unlisted error code in cases where it detects that that happens, rather than silently accepting it and leaking memory
10:59:49 <ais523> this would be better off as unspecified behaviour, I think: "either leaks memory or returns EBUSY"
11:00:38 <ais523> that said, I can see potential anything-happens UB if it ends up unlocking the mutex in the process of reinitialising it
11:01:14 <wib_jonas> oh, so you mean there'd be a separate table that has the mutex insides, and this has pointers back to the pthread_mutex_init handles that points into it, and pthread_mutex_init would look up what the existing handle points to with bounds checking and checks if the back pointer points back, and that way it can detect double initialization which is
11:02:35 <ais523> the Rationale doesn't explain how they expected implementations to check for double-initialisation, just that they were expecting that some could
11:03:11 <ais523> scanning a list of allocated mutexes seems like the only possibility?
11:04:06 <ais523> or, well, wouldn't have to be a linear scan, you could have a hashmap of them or something
11:04:28 <wib_jonas> no, it's not the only possibility. if you can rely on reading uninitialized memory as an integer array index without UB then you can do the back pointer thing.
11:04:54 <ais523> ah right – that's a sort of map in its own way, of course
11:05:08 <ais523> I forget what it's called
11:06:10 <wib_jonas> yeah, it's just one that's hard to use with the way current language standards handle reading from uninitialized memory. but if you're implementing a mutex you can probably able to rely on some machine-specific low-level detail that can bypass that.
11:06:26 <ais523> it has lead to a lot of acrimony in the Rust community because it can't be correctly implemented in Rust atm, not even by (e.g.) reading the potentially uninitialised memory with inline asm
11:07:27 <ais523> and the Rust developers don't want to add a way to do it until someone can prove it correct, which would probably need documenting the exact assumptions the optimiser was allowed to make in every possible scenario, which is a lot of work
11:08:21 <wib_jonas> yes, but even if you don't want to do this in a new library, an existing old library could be doing this and someone wanted to implement a pthreads interface over it
11:08:23 <ais523> the issue is that it's fine at the hardware level, but very difficult to prove that you aren't violating some assumption that the optimiser might theoretically be able to rely on in future, even if it doesn't at the moment
11:09:26 <wib_jonas> even if it's possible, I don't like this restriction in the library interface though.
11:09:29 <ais523> (partly because what the optimiser is and isn't allowed to do isn't specified anywhere)
11:10:11 <ais523> I got as far as proving that it's safe if the optimiser doesn't assume anything based about program executions that actually occurred based on program executions that could have occurred, but didn't
11:10:56 <ais523> or, well, not that exactly, it was a related operation (reading from memory that might be racily updated in paralle,)
11:11:13 <ais523> * in parallel, but ignoring the read value unless you can prove after that fact that no race happened
11:13:13 <wib_jonas> you can still use that sort of "uninitialized" structure if you only do it on memory that's low-level initialized earlier and you're just reusing such memory for a new array without reinitializing it, but that doesn't work in this weird mutex case
11:18:49 <ais523> in any case, this has convinced me that the POSIX decisions aren't completely ridiculous
11:19:02 <ais523> but I suspect it'd make more sense to use something Valgrindish than trying to do it from within the program
11:19:57 <ais523> I guess some sort of asan-like thing would make sense, but if it's defined as UB then detected UB should core dump rather than just returning an error code
11:20:18 <wib_jonas> I can see why the language definition people are worried about reading uninitialized memory because it could be a problem for future optimizations. If it's ever allowed I think it would be better to use some special primitive operation that copies bytes from potentially uninitialized memory, rather than allow it for ordinary reads.
11:21:59 <ais523> wib_jonas: the debate is about adding such a primitive
11:22:20 <ais523> I agree it should definitely be a separate primitive – but the Rust developers don't want to commit to the primitive even being possible to implement
11:22:27 <wib_jonas> yeah, and that'd have to be done on the llvm side
11:22:33 <ais523> LLVM already has such a primitive
11:23:04 <ais523> although it's awkward naming because the word "freeze" is also used in other contexts
11:23:44 <ais523> but the semantics are "given an uninitialised/poisoned/undef input, return an arbitrary bit pattern, otherwise return the value of the input"
11:25:57 <wib_jonas> I wonder if there also exists some old or exotic hardware where reading a word of memory that hasn't been initialized since poweron causes actual hardware level undefined behavior because an unclear signal from the bus can poison the CPU. Of course on such hardware you'd typically low-level initialize all the memory before you start to do anything
11:25:58 <wib_jonas> useful, so it wouldn't come up in practice.
11:26:05 <ais523> that said, I am somewhat unconvinced by the way LLVM makes decisions about optimiser semantics
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11:27:21 <ais523> there was a bug a while ago where two optimisations conflicted with each other, optimising a correct program into an incorrect one, and LLVM decided to work around the problem by changing the semantics of load operations so that they would load undef if racing with a write (rather than doing UB) in order to make one of the optimisations valid
11:27:44 <ais523> but I'm not sure they checked all the other optimisations to make sure they were consistent with the change (rather than just the optimisation that was assuming that it would be UB)
11:48:52 <wib_jonas> how does that even work? is it not UB only if the load or the conflicting store is done from code compiled with llvm as opposed to code compiled by something else and linked?
11:57:00 <wib_jonas> and then there's the whole thing about how the language lets the programmer do floating-point arithmetic with the floating-point control bits changed. most code is compiled assuming that the control bits must be at the default as the ABI requires. so C introduced a new pragma for this, to say that a part of your code doesn't assume that. then in
11:57:01 <wib_jonas> code surrounded with such a pragma, you can change the control bits. that's the rounding mode, the bit for input operand denormals are zeros, the bit for output operand denormals are zeros, and the floating point exception mask. I personally don't care much about the last one, and the rounding modes are probably best handled by new built-in and
11:57:01 <wib_jonas> library functions that do operations with a certain rounding mode. but the two denormal flags are harder, you do often want to run a longer calculation with those enabled, and it would be inconvenient to write all code that works that way without some more convenient syntax than named library functions, but the code doing that still has a different
11:57:02 <wib_jonas> ABI from normal so the pragma seems like the best solution. IIRC rust doesn't seem to have an equivalent of the pragma yet.
11:58:14 <wib_jonas> and this can be tricky on the compiler and optimizer, because they suddenly have to know a lot specifically about the floating-point control flags, like what commutes with changing them because it does no floating-point operations etc.
12:05:49 <esolangs> [[User:Cycwin/sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158105 * Cycwin * (+221) Created page with " There will be my ideas there. You can edit them any time(please let me know who you edited this page are). ==About onechar== in onechar we only have <pre>:loop a (b) jp loop</pre> So how can we jump above >2 lines code?"
12:20:41 <esolangs> [[User:Cycwin/sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158106&oldid=158105 * Cycwin * (+0) /* About onechar */
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12:59:34 <impomatic> ais523: basic scissors can be done in 5 instructions.
13:00:07 <ais523> that's actually quite impressive
13:01:23 <ais523> <wib_jonas> how does that even work? is it not UB only if the load or the conflicting store is done from code compiled with llvm as opposed to code compiled by something else and linked? ← it's not UB in general, it just reads an undefined value – all the hardware LLVM supports will return *some* value upon a racy read, even if it has no connection to reality, rather than (e.g.) crashing
13:02:52 <impomatic> There's actually quite a good spread of strategies, and the settings are pretty good if you want to evolve a competitor using genetic algorithms.
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13:33:14 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158107&oldid=157944 * Neon * (+2282)
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14:09:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bits bytes * New user account
14:12:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158108&oldid=157973 * Bits bytes * (+169)
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14:48:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158109&oldid=158022 * Hotcrystal0 * (+334)
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16:46:12 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158110&oldid=158078 * Hotcrystal0 * (+47)
16:48:22 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158111&oldid=158110 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
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17:02:36 <esolangs> [[Nya~*kwrgsfish+-HQ9`:'"rbtAzxdi8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158112&oldid=151994 * Qawtykit * (+695) laying out the commands into tables so its easier to read
17:21:50 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158113&oldid=158111 * Helpeesl * (+88)
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17:33:29 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158114&oldid=158012 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+502)
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17:47:46 <esolangs> [[Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158115&oldid=134283 * Aadenboy * (+31) /* see also */
17:55:12 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158116&oldid=158114 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+316)
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18:38:20 <esolangs> [[Main Page/lex]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158117 * Neon * (+1810) Created page with "==Introduction== Lex is a variant of pseudocode consisting of mainly letters and symbols. It was inspired by the P" (P double prime) primitive programming language created by Corrado Bohm. It is not meant to have be executed and is instead meant to illustrate the str
18:56:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:Main Page/lex]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158118 * Aadenboy * (+322) Created page with "why is this a subpage of the main page? ~~~~"
18:57:08 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheKillerBunny * New user account
19:01:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158119&oldid=158108 * TheKillerBunny * (+131)
19:01:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158120&oldid=158119 * TheKillerBunny * (+78)
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19:13:01 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158121&oldid=158113 * Hotcrystal0 * (+132)
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19:14:27 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158122&oldid=158121 * Hotcrystal0 * (+36)
19:15:54 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158123&oldid=158116 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+153) /* Examples */
19:19:56 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158124&oldid=158123 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+198)
19:20:49 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158125&oldid=158124 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+8) /* Examples */
19:22:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TenBillionPlusOne * moved [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] to [[Transformation is complete]]: Finished the esolang
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19:22:56 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158128&oldid=158126 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+65)
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19:24:57 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158129&oldid=157834 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-34)
19:25:44 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158130&oldid=158127 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-40) Blanked the page
19:28:10 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158131&oldid=157984 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-1020) /* Transformation is complete */
19:29:02 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158132&oldid=158131 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+67)
19:29:54 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158133&oldid=158128 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+13)
20:00:27 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158134&oldid=158133 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-23) /* Natural numbers */
20:19:16 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158135&oldid=158096 * Rombito * (-1)
20:25:03 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158136&oldid=158135 * Rombito * (+26)
20:32:14 <esolangs> [[Wheddo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158137&oldid=158136 * Rombito * (-30)
20:41:39 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158138&oldid=156783 * Mari * (+175) Cell-based, unknown computational class, rather than all relative increments or decrements
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21:06:42 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158139&oldid=153906 * Mari * (+463) add Caca
21:21:06 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158140&oldid=158092 * Buckets * (+11)
21:21:32 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158141&oldid=158065 * Buckets * (+10)
21:21:44 <esolangs> [[Whyn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158142 * Buckets * (+900) Created page with "Whyn is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. The Starting Direction is 45 Degrees Clockwise then Normal. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | R || Turn 90 Degrees Clockwise. |- | L || Turn 90 Degrees Anti-Clockwise. |- |
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22:39:19 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158143&oldid=158141 * Buckets * (+0)
23:08:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Idkwhatever * New user account
23:21:03 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158144&oldid=158122 * I am islptng * (+219)
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23:33:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158145&oldid=158120 * Idkwhatever * (+59)
23:33:52 <esolangs> [[Unibrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158146&oldid=74115 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+168) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Unibrain programming language on GitHub.
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23:53:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158152&oldid=158151 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
23:53:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158153&oldid=158152 * Hotcrystal0 * (+24)
23:54:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158154&oldid=158153 * Hotcrystal0 * (+75)
23:55:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158155&oldid=158154 * Hotcrystal0 * (+289)
23:57:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158156&oldid=158029 * Hotcrystal0 * (+431) /* Filter 16 */ new section
23:57:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158157&oldid=158156 * Hotcrystal0 * (-3)
23:57:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158158&oldid=158157 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
23:58:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158159&oldid=158158 * Hotcrystal0 * (+58)
00:01:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158160&oldid=158159 * Ais523 * (+462) /* Filter 16 */ it's hard to write a filter to cover all possibilities
00:03:43 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158161&oldid=155072 * Hotcrystal0 * (+62)
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00:06:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158163&oldid=158162 * Hotcrystal0 * (+248)
00:21:54 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158164&oldid=158150 * Helpeesl * (+334)
00:35:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158165&oldid=158155 * I am islptng * (+748)
01:08:24 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158166&oldid=157738 * H33T33 * (-4)
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01:33:17 <esolangs> [[Smolder/build]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158167 * Aadenboy * (+582) Created page with "<includeonly><div style="width: 2em; height: 2em; font-size: 1.5em; display: inline-flex; align-items: center; justify-content: center; font-family: monospace; background-color: rgb({{#expr:{{{r|0}}}/3*255}}, {{#expr:{{{g|0}}}/3*255}}, {{#expr:{{{b|0}}}/3*255}});
01:36:43 <esolangs> [[Smolder/build]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158168&oldid=158167 * Aadenboy * (+0)
01:37:35 <esolangs> [[Smolder/build]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158169&oldid=158168 * Aadenboy * (+6)
01:37:58 <esolangs> [[Smolder/Cell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158170 * Aadenboy * (+210) Created page with "<includeonly>{{:Smolder/build|b={{#sub:{{{1|}}}|0|1}}|g={{#sub:{{{1|}}}|1|1}}|r={{#sub:{{{1|}}}|2|1}}}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{:Smolder/Cell|101}}{{:Smolder/Cell|10}}{{:Smolder/Cell|32}}{{:Smolder/Cell|032}}"
01:49:00 <zzo38> Why is the computer often loud after a power outage for several hours, and then may be even more quiet than it seems to have been before that?
01:57:13 <ais523> computers do run hotter after boot (meaning they need to run the fan for longer or faster to cool down) because the boot process is quite CPU-intensive, but that effect only lasts minutes not hours
01:57:37 <ais523> it could be that the computer has to do some sort of recovery process if it losers power, that it doesn't have to do on a normal boot, and that heats it up
01:58:27 <esolangs> [[Smolder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158171 * Aadenboy * (+5705) failed attempt at a burn-like which ended up being interesting on its own
01:59:06 <ais523> I have a display on my computer (that's permanently visible except when I'm running a program full-screen, or during screen lock or the boot/shutdown/login process) that shows CPU usage, free memory and swap, network download/upload usage and load average
01:59:22 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158172&oldid=157748 * Aadenboy * (+126) /* my own esolangs */ [[Smolder]]
01:59:33 <ais523> that often gives me insight into what sort of thing the computer is doing (and lets me know what tool to open in an attempt to find out, if there's unexpected activity)
01:59:40 <int-e> . o O ( so much for "cold boot" :P )
01:59:55 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158173&oldid=158140 * Aadenboy * (+14) /* S */ add [[Smolder]]
02:00:02 <zzo38> No, it was even while the computer was running normally. (Another thing that sometimes happens starting a few minutes after it boots, but not this time, is the cursor blinking stops working in some windows (while continuing to work in others), and then later starts working again.)
02:01:09 <int-e> to me this sounds weird, and probably specific to your particular computer
02:01:59 <int-e> some vibration noise can be temperature dependent because parts expand as they get warmer
02:02:06 <zzo38> I also have a permanently visible display (as long as X window system is running, unless the screen is off due to power saving) that displays memory usage, load average, current date/time, temperatures, and number of email messages, but I did not put network download/upload numbers on there.
02:04:40 <int-e> Anyway. Weird. Assuming the first effect is real the second effect could be purely psychological though; you got used to a louder noise so when that disappears the remaining sound will feel more quiet than usual for a bit.
02:06:01 <zzo38> Yes, I thought it might be psychological, although I am not in the room all the time. Possibly next time I could try to measure the noise (although I am not sure if I have a microphone, so I may have to look).
02:07:39 <zzo38> Also, I do have a surge protector, in case that matters, and the room does tend to get a bit dusty (even though I had tried to clean the dust several times, both in the room and in the computer). Also, the CPU temperature before the power outage was normally around 26 Celsius and is now at 28 Celsius. The temperature measured on my desk is apparently 22 Celsius.
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02:27:49 <ais523> I don't have a permanently visible computer-internals-temperature display but I have one I can bring up if I want
02:28:24 <ais523> there are a range of different temperatures, measured from different parts of the computer
02:28:59 <ais523> e.g. the CPU is at about 40°C at the moment but the memory is at 23°C
02:29:24 <ais523> (is computer memory known for overheating? I'm a little surprised that it even has a temperature sensor)
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02:33:00 <int-e> a quick search suggests that this may happen if you set the voltage too high (possibly in connection with trying to overclock it)... or if it's defective
02:35:25 <int-e> I've been wondering about this for HBM... though I was more curious about the fate of a CPU buried under slices of RAM.
02:35:50 <int-e> (or GPU obviously)
02:36:40 <int-e> it's possible that I've misunderstood how HBM is usually packaged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:High_Bandwidth_Memory_schematic.svg suggests a side by side scheme that wouldn't make me worry so much ;)
02:47:04 <ais523> I think the RAM usually doesn't go on top of the CPU because you generally have to put a heatsink there
02:50:58 <int-e> I had failed to connect HBM and the communication substrate/chiplet ideas.
02:51:37 <int-e> There's still a strong suggestion there that RAM doesn't get very hot... if it did, stacking it would pose problems.
03:16:50 <shachaf> Oh no, I misread that as failing to connect HBM and chiplets, and was wondering what sort of fancy integrated circuit things int-e was doing.
03:19:36 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158174&oldid=158138 * Mari * (+223) add infobox because those are cool
04:43:16 <zzo38> I do not seem to have memory temperature on my computer; there is CPU and MB and the "temp1" of the "nouveau-pci-0100". There is also the hard drive temperature, but it is accessed separately.
04:44:48 <ais523> oh, it might be a drive temperature sensor and I just misread the label
04:45:05 <ais523> they aren't labeled very clearly
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04:49:37 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (B-C)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158175&oldid=150247 * C0ffee * (+98)
04:52:22 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158176&oldid=158104 * C0ffee * (+0)
04:54:56 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158177&oldid=158176 * C0ffee * (+5)
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04:56:11 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158178&oldid=158177 * C0ffee * (+0)
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06:51:08 <b_jonas> if the RAM doesn't usually overheat then it could be worth to have a temperaturesensor on the RAM to check if overheating is propagating in the whole case because the case cooling isn't working well
07:08:28 <esolangs> [[Main Page/lex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158179&oldid=158117 * Neon * (-482)
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08:12:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Neon * moved [[Main Page/lex]] to [[Esolang:Lex]]: Misspelled title
08:12:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Neon * moved [[Talk:Main Page/lex]] to [[Esolang talk:Lex]]: Misspelled title
08:13:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Neon * moved [[Esolang:Lex]] to [[Lex]]: First move was incorrect
08:13:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Neon * moved [[Esolang talk:Lex]] to [[Talk:Lex]]: First move was incorrect
09:01:12 <esolangs> [[Define All Of It]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158188 * Rombito * (+1183) Created page with "[[category:Languages]][[category:2025]][[category:Unimplemented]] '''Define All Of It''' or '''DAOI''' for short is an Esolang made by [[User:Rombito]]. == Syntax == = Preface And = Code These are sections in a .DAOI file, The code isnt important as every fo
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13:33:21 <esolangs> [[Lex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158189&oldid=158184 * Neon * (+130)
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13:54:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158190&oldid=158165 * Cycwin * (+121) /* Where are you from, and how can you understand Chinese? */
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14:35:47 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158191&oldid=158132 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-5)
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14:57:51 <esolangs> [[Smolder/Cell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158192&oldid=158170 * Aadenboy * (+39)
14:58:32 <esolangs> [[Smolder/build]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158193&oldid=158169 * Aadenboy * (+50)
14:59:02 <esolangs> [[Smolder/build]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158194&oldid=158193 * Aadenboy * (+20)
14:59:33 <esolangs> [[Smolder/build]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158195&oldid=158194 * Aadenboy * (+3)
15:00:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158196&oldid=157589 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-29) Blanked the page
15:11:37 <esolangs> [[Smolder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158197&oldid=158171 * Aadenboy * (+3281) NAND implementation; Smolder is Turing complete
15:16:16 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158198&oldid=158172 * Aadenboy * (-4) /* my own esolangs */
15:16:39 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158199&oldid=156405 * Aadenboy * (+14) /* S */ add [[Smolder]]
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15:47:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Marcrocny * New user account
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17:36:47 <esolangs> [[STRong]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158200&oldid=136339 * Qawtykit * (+1) added newline
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19:18:20 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158201&oldid=158129 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-228)
21:06:10 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158202&oldid=152414 * Tommyaweosme * (-1180) Replaced content with "[[burn]] came [[burnlike|back]] and so did i"
21:18:11 <esolangs> [[Quite BASIC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158203 * Tommyaweosme * (+3068) esolang not made by me
21:18:32 <esolangs> [[Quite BASIC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158204&oldid=158203 * Tommyaweosme * (+0) /* Example programs */
21:18:47 <esolangs> [[Quite BASIC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158205&oldid=158204 * Tommyaweosme * (+1) fixing header typo
21:27:45 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BliepMonster * New user account
21:31:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158206&oldid=158145 * BliepMonster * (+332)
21:50:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158207&oldid=157531 * Hotcrystal0 * (+42)
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21:56:24 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158208&oldid=158173 * Buckets * (+15)
21:56:48 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158209&oldid=158143 * Buckets * (+14)
21:56:56 <esolangs> [[Braintwo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158210 * Buckets * (+1011) Created page with "Braintwo is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. There is 1 restriction, The IP cannot move in the same Movement twice. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | < || The same as < in brainfuck. |- | > || The same as > f
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22:09:58 <esolangs> [[CHICKEN JOCKEY]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158211 * Tommyaweosme * (+862) Created page with "CHICKEN JOCKEY is an esolang based on memes in 2025. == boolean values == the two boolean values are 67 (true) and cap (false) == commands == CHICKEN JOCKEY() this command makes the memory pointer go right if 67, and left if cap. STEVES LAVA CHICKEN (){ }
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00:26:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158212&oldid=153256 * Hotcrystal0 * (+325)
00:41:25 <esolangs> [[Pljic++!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158213&oldid=154648 * Mmmph! * (+111) changed the default label value to 1 (because that actually makes more sense), pljic++ is now implemented
01:47:26 <esolangs> [[LinearModulo2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158214&oldid=157967 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+61)
01:47:54 <esolangs> [[LinearModulo2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158215&oldid=158214 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+0)
01:48:16 <esolangs> [[LinearModulo2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158216&oldid=158215 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+45)
01:55:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Smolder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158217 * Aadenboy * (+499) I've got no idea how to turn one number into any other. could someone try?
02:00:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sep]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158218 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+178) Created page with "It doesn't seem like it can make Minsky machines. There is only one register. ~~~~"
02:03:03 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158219&oldid=158164 * Tommyaweosme * (+36)
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02:16:46 <esolangs> [[Bite bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158220&oldid=141310 * Tommyaweosme * (+24) /* commands */ fixing up a command to make it more versatile
02:31:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158221&oldid=158218 * I am islptng * (+644)
02:47:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sep]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158222&oldid=158221 * H. H. P. M. P. Cole * (+259)
03:25:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158223&oldid=158222 * I am islptng * (+699)
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03:27:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158224&oldid=157950 * I am islptng * (+738)
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04:29:16 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158225&oldid=158081 * Zhil * (-2) Shortened the mlatu-5 swap
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05:45:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158226&oldid=158224 * Cycwin * (+41) /* 1000000001 */
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06:40:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158227&oldid=158226 * I am islptng * (+1)
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10:51:32 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158228&oldid=158219 * Helpeesl * (+108) Dont mess with the commands, it was a pain to change back
10:52:26 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158229&oldid=158228 * Helpeesl * (+31)
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11:26:48 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158230&oldid=157977 * PrySigneToFry * (+39)
11:42:59 <esolangs> [[CHICKEN JOCKEY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158231&oldid=158211 * JIT * (+0) fixed the categories
11:48:56 <esolangs> [[User:47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158232&oldid=156453 * PrySigneToFry * (+9) Fixing spelling error
11:51:58 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158233&oldid=158229 * PrySigneToFry * (+1971)
11:54:23 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Stub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158234&oldid=149478 * JIT * (-270) Replaced content with "{{Stub}} __"
11:55:18 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158235&oldid=158233 * PrySigneToFry * (+375)
11:57:29 <esolangs> [[Langage de programmation du cur]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158236 * PrySigneToFry * (+1279) Created page with "{{WIP}} Langage de programmation du cur(Programming Language from Heart) is a language designed by PSTF. Although the author is from China, this Esolang is written in French. = Data types = In this Esolang, there are 6 types: <pre> Le num
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12:23:25 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158237&oldid=158230 * Hotcrystal0 * (+41)
12:48:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ttulka * uploaded "[[File:Draten logo.png]]"
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13:07:20 <esolangs> [[Draten]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158239 * Ttulka * (+3748) init Draten
13:07:49 <esolangs> [[Draten]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158240&oldid=158239 * Ttulka * (-5) /* External resources */ fix text
13:11:23 <esolangs> [[User:Ttulka]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158241&oldid=144220 * Ttulka * (+565) add Draten
13:12:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158242&oldid=158208 * Ttulka * (+13) /* D */ add Draten
13:16:11 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158243&oldid=157882 * Ttulka * (+504) add Draten
13:17:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158244&oldid=158242 * BliepMonster * (+14) https://github.com/BliepMonster/ALLCAPS made this yesterday. It errors when you insert a lowercase letter anywhere
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13:33:08 <esolangs> [[ALLCAPS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158245 * BliepMonster * (+1712) ALLCAPS is awesome
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14:52:30 <esolangs> [[User:BliepMonster]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158246 * BliepMonster * (+7) Created page with "ALLCAPS"
15:01:40 <esolangs> [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158247&oldid=157982 * BliepMonster * (-131) /* Java */ Am I missing something? Other languages don't have the input part.
15:07:34 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158248&oldid=158237 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
15:08:00 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158249&oldid=158248 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
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15:13:02 <esolangs> [[Template:Minpre]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158250 * Aadenboy * (+48) helper template
15:14:26 <esolangs> [[Template:Minpre]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158251&oldid=158250 * Aadenboy * (-2) fix
15:16:39 <esolangs> [[Template:Minpre]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158252&oldid=158251 * Aadenboy * (+3) lazy workaround
15:17:39 <esolangs> [[Template:Minpre]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158253&oldid=158252 * Aadenboy * (+167) note
15:18:28 <esolangs> [[Template:Minpre]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158254&oldid=158253 * Aadenboy * (-216) never mind
15:32:14 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158255&oldid=151211 * Qawtykit * (-20) joke commands are now allowed, becuase yeah
15:37:25 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158256&oldid=158198 * Aadenboy * (+5414) add examples for each language
15:51:00 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158257&oldid=157492 * Aadenboy * (+364) extending
15:53:07 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158258&oldid=158235 * Helpeesl * (+2217) I is very confusing and I have surrendered for the first time. This doesnt look like the future will be fine
15:53:50 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158259&oldid=158255 * Qawtykit * (+291) added two commands
16:01:11 <Sgeo> MUSIC/SP has subroutines for a 1:1 mapping between EBDCDIC and "ASCII" (quotes because the mapping supports 256 characters. "Extended ASCII" I guess?). I'm not sure how though
16:01:22 <Sgeo> But UTF-8 survives a roundtrip just fine
16:08:32 <esolangs> [[Nya~*kwrgsfish+-HQ9`:'"rbtAzxdi8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158260&oldid=158112 * Qawtykit * (+337) added commad
16:30:22 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158261&oldid=158249 * Hotcrystal0 * (+57)
16:31:00 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158262&oldid=158261 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
16:31:14 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158263&oldid=158262 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
16:36:40 <esolangs> [[Smolder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158264&oldid=158197 * Aadenboy * (-8)
16:49:13 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158265&oldid=158256 * Aadenboy * (-5) /* my own esolangs */
17:22:02 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158266&oldid=158134 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+529)
17:27:05 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158267&oldid=158266 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+339) /* SKI calculus */
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17:32:59 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158268&oldid=158139 * Dtp09 * (+9) /* Tile */ changed photo to the funnier program
17:36:19 <esolangs> [[Smolder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158269&oldid=158264 * Gapples2 * (+215) total
17:40:21 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158270&oldid=158265 * Aadenboy * (+3) /* my own esolangs */
17:53:16 <Sgeo> I think it would be cool to make a Brainfuck3270 that... instead of standard input/output, somehow made use of the screen and forum based nature of 3270.
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17:55:06 <Sgeo> I wish Rust was available for MUSIC/SP
18:14:54 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158271&oldid=158270 * Aadenboy * (+13) /* ESOLANGS */
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18:27:31 <esolangs> [[Akdrfsbathnede knem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158272&oldid=138715 * Qawtykit * (+29) several minor changes
18:29:13 <esolangs> [[ROTHELL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158273 * JORE * (+2963) Created page with "= ROTHELL = '''ROTHELL''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] designed to surpass [[Malbolge]] in difficulty. It employs a cryptographic instruction encoding scheme based on rotational character differences [https://rot13.com/ ROTx] with case-sensitive transformations
18:31:22 <esolangs> [[Category:Cannot easily used]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158274 * JORE * (+137) Created page with "Esolangs which are extremely hard or almost impossible to programmed by humans, and often requiring brute-forces. [[Category:Languages]]"
18:31:41 <esolangs> [[ROTHELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158275&oldid=158273 * JORE * (+32)
18:33:03 <esolangs> [[ROTHELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158276&oldid=158275 * JORE * (+195)
18:34:44 <esolangs> [[ROTHELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158277&oldid=158276 * JORE * (-45)
18:36:55 <esolangs> [[ROTHELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158278&oldid=158277 * JORE * (+159)
18:37:35 <esolangs> [[Akdrfsbathnede knem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158279&oldid=158272 * Qawtykit * (+159) added example and another minor change
18:42:13 <esolangs> [[Flow Uncontrolled]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158280&oldid=140600 * Qawtykit * (+4) whitespace
18:42:59 <esolangs> [[Flow Uncontrolled]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158281&oldid=158280 * Qawtykit * (+39)
18:43:39 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158282&oldid=158258 * PkmnQ * (+208) /* Programs */ [[Kolakoski sequence]] :)
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18:47:46 <esolangs> [[Flow Uncontrolled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158283&oldid=158281 * Qawtykit * (+40) fixed the 99 bottles
18:52:58 <esolangs> [[Flow Uncontrolled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158284&oldid=158283 * Qawtykit * (-1)
18:56:08 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck3D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158285 * JORE * (+1587) Created page with "== Brainfuck 3D == Brainfuck 3D is a esolang where programs are designed to work in 3D. This means you need to program multiple layers in order to use 3D commands. Every layer is a block of code where 2D commands allowed. === Basic Brainfuck Instructions === {| class=
18:56:30 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck 3D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158286 * JORE * (+1587) Created page with "== Brainfuck 3D == Brainfuck 3D is a esolang where programs are designed to work in 3D. This means you need to program multiple layers in order to use 3D commands. Every layer is a block of code where 2D commands allowed. === Basic Brainfuck Instructions === {| class
18:57:37 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck 3D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158287&oldid=158286 * JORE * (+234)
19:08:00 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck3D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158288&oldid=158285 * Aadenboy * (-1561) redirect?
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19:10:01 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Cannot easily used]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158289 * Aadenboy * (+328) Created page with "isn't this just [[:Category:Turing tarpits]]? ~~~~"
19:10:28 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Cannot easily used]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158290&oldid=158289 * Aadenboy * (-328) Blanked the page
19:47:48 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158291&oldid=158282 * Helpeesl * (+364)
19:52:44 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158292&oldid=158291 * Aadenboy * (+80)
19:56:54 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158293&oldid=158191 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+326)
20:08:08 <esolangs> [[ALLCAPS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158294&oldid=158245 * BliepMonster * (-65) W HOOPS
20:08:38 <esolangs> [[ALLCAPS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158295&oldid=158294 * BliepMonster * (-2)
20:09:29 <esolangs> [[ALLCAPS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158296&oldid=158295 * BliepMonster * (+64)
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20:55:30 <esolangs> [[User:47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158297&oldid=158232 * Ractangle * (-8) removed one spelling fix
20:58:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Pljic++!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158298 * Ractangle * (+285) Created page with "To share, you either have to: :1. Put it in GitHub Gist/Pastebin or :2. Put the source of the interpreter in the page ~~~"
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21:37:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158299&oldid=158244 * Buckets * (+10)
21:38:18 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158300&oldid=158209 * Buckets * (+9)
21:39:02 <esolangs> [[Weg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158301 * Buckets * (+433) Created page with "Weg is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Instruction |- | A || Given Context, this command will choose between all Commands of brainfuck. |} "Hello, World!" Program: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
22:09:13 <esolangs> [[Boltzmann brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158302 * Tommyaweosme * (+703) Created page with "occam's razor states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. what if, instead of a pointer being controlled by a line of complex instructions going down an infinite line of cells, its just one pointer hallucinating getting instructions
22:13:21 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158303&oldid=158292 * Helpeesl * (+187)
00:16:30 <esolangs> [[Quite BASIC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158304&oldid=158205 * Tommyaweosme * (+9311)
00:20:59 <esolangs> [[Markov algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158305&oldid=156494 * Tommyaweosme * (+437) added explanation of mass
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00:46:08 <esolangs> [[Negative Acknowledgement]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158306 * Tommyaweosme * (+1477) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=}} is a language designed to be uninterpretable. If any interpreter is found, it will change its own Esolangs.org page within a ~231 years, unless a specific computer in an underground bunker in the Pacific ocean running Windows
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02:50:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:Negative Acknowledgement]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158307 * Aadenboy * (+306) Created page with "what about compilation? ~~~~"
04:41:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Negative Acknowledgement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158308&oldid=158307 * Cycwin * (+48)
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05:10:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category:Cannot easily used]]": unapproved/undiscussed category; this can probably be handled by see-alsos for the time being, and even if it turns out to be a good idea, the name is wrong
05:10:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Category talk:Cannot easily used]]": Deleted together with the associated page with reason: unapproved/undiscussed category; this can probably be handled by see-alsos for the time being, and even if it turns out to be a good idea, the name is wrong
05:11:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Boltzmann brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158309 * Ais523 * (+225) a duplicate?
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05:41:22 <zzo38> Does any browser display a visual representation of the hash of the server certificate?
05:44:32 <zzo38> I had mentioned before, the cardinal arithmetic of categories, and I think someone mentioned ordinal arithmetic. Can ordinal arithmetic of categories be defined? I don't know.
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08:04:33 <b_jonas> zzo38: ooh, with some optimized deterministic from seed image generators, with the user's choice between different styles such as anime girls, luxury cars, natural landscape Iceland, natural landscape South America, etc
08:09:11 <esolangs> [[Rinuk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158310&oldid=156918 * JIT * (+24)
11:14:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy/Self-equaling squares]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158311&oldid=157532 * PkmnQ * (+1528) Half a proof
11:20:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Elphan * New user account
11:28:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158312&oldid=158206 * Elphan * (+129) /* Introductions */
11:33:51 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158313 * Elphan * (+2370) Created page with "== Description == Ampell is a small programming language that uses a stack to do calculations and run commands. It tries to keep things simple by using only a few symbols for different actions. You can push values on a stack, do math, check conditions, and use variables
11:35:24 <esolangs> [[BrainWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158314&oldid=156873 * JIT * (+2) /* Input Program */
11:37:32 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158315&oldid=158313 * Elphan * (-370) /* Syntax */
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11:45:56 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158316&oldid=158315 * Elphan * (-237)
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12:22:59 <ais523> a problem that came up in some code that I was writing and I'm still thinking about it: is there a list implementation that supports efficient clone, uncons and append (i.e. concatenation of two lists)?
12:23:10 <ais523> I can easily do two out of three, but all three at once is proving difficult
12:23:39 <ais523> ("efficient clone" is most obviously implemented by making the lists immutable and refcounted, but that makes the other two properties hard to satisfy)
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12:24:08 <ais523> I don't need any other operations other than writing list literals and iterating over the lists (which can be done by cloning them and then calling uncons repeatedly)
12:25:12 <wib_jonas> ais523: don't some of the balanced trees do that? red-black trees or AVL trees if you want log time, or finger trees if you want amortized constant time
12:25:43 <wib_jonas> s/red-black trees or AVL trees/red-black trees or 2-3 trees or AVL trees/
12:25:50 <ais523> including clone? I haven't heard of finger trees, I'll check then
12:26:08 <wib_jonas> you were trying to write a library for the 2-3 trees, weren't you?
12:26:14 <ais523> finger trees look really promising, actually
12:26:19 <ais523> wib_jonas: yes, a long time ago
12:26:22 <ais523> I didn't ever finish it
12:27:23 <wib_jonas> ais523: in all these cases, you make all the nodes immutable, as described in Chris Okasaki's book, you copy nodes instead of editing their links in place when you modify the trees, and this means to clone you can just copy a reference to the root node or similar
12:28:59 <ais523> right – it was hard to prevent the memory usage going quadratic with the things I was trying
12:29:09 <wib_jonas> finger trees are a variant of 2-3 trees that's more difficult to implement, but in exchange inserting or removing an element from either end can be done in amortized constant time instead of just logarithmic time. the Haskell standard library has a type Seq which implements this, giving a list with the properties that you're asking for, at least if
12:29:09 <wib_jonas> I understand what you need correctly
12:29:16 <ais523> and O(log n) probably isn't a disaster but I've become exceptionally perfectionist recently
12:29:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158317&oldid=158212 * None1 * (-916) The rotated comment covers content
12:31:10 <ais523> this is something of a weird case because most of the time, these lists are going to be quite small but could theoretically be large, so a theoretically perfect solution would probably start with a naive quadratic algorithm and switch to something more asymptotically efficient (but with worse constant factors) if the lists got larger
12:32:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158318&oldid=158091 * None1 * (+428) /* Any interests on joining our Esolang Tencent QQ group? */
12:32:52 <ais523> but just knowing it's possible helps a lot because I don't have to worry about making sure the algorithm is possible to make efficient any more, I can write the algorithm and optimise it later
12:33:29 <wib_jonas> ais523: if they're usually small then you can store multiple logical nodes together in a memory node, like the lower few levels of a B-tree.
12:33:59 <ais523> they're usually small but I have lots of clones with only minor differences
12:34:17 <ais523> which makes condensing them into arrays hard
12:34:19 <wib_jonas> yeah, then you may have to benchmark what the right node size is
12:35:04 <ais523> like, abcd and abce and abcde might all coexist, and ideally the "abc" part of that would be shared to stop memory use going quadratic
12:35:51 <ais523> the algorithm I use this for is basically operating on stacks, and it usually pushes and pops onto one end of them, but a) it needs a history of all the previous stack states and b) occasionally one stack gets concatenated to another
12:38:54 <wib_jonas> since we're here I also have a data structure question. I want a key-value dictionary (rather than a sequence that keeps its order). I want it as a database on disk in which I can look up and update quickly. so far I could use a balanced tree or hash. but I'd also like a guarantee that if someone examines the data on disk they can derive no
12:38:55 <wib_jonas> information about the order in which the keys were inserted or anything else about the history (the "no information" can be in the cryptographic sense where it's like 2**-128 bits of information). I know how I can do this with a treap, and I heard legends that there are hash tables (called "commutative) that can do this too though I don't know how.
12:38:55 <wib_jonas> But here I'm more interested if there's any existing software implementation that can do this and that I can use, especially one that doesn't require an expensive license.
12:40:21 <wib_jonas> ... . you want this to implement an esoteric programming language that has something more general and crazier than unlambda's call-cc?
12:41:18 <ais523> actually no (I do have plans for such a language but this isn't part of it)
12:42:41 <ais523> I'm trying to work on an algorithm to convert NPDAs into DPDAs, which is impossible in general but possible in most practically useful cases
12:44:31 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158319&oldid=158316 * Elphan * (+183)
12:45:15 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158320&oldid=158319 * Elphan * (+121)
12:45:29 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158321&oldid=158320 * Elphan * (+1) /* Prints "hi" how many times you want= */
12:45:38 <ais523> and it works by trying to simulate all the possible states of the NPDA stack in parallel, and checking to see whether there's been a combinatorial explosion or not – so I have a lot of very similar stacks that all need to be stored at once
12:48:07 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158322&oldid=158321 * Elphan * (+228) /* Description */
12:48:12 <wib_jonas> oh, that might be interesting. we were talking some weeks ago about how to implement mutex locking in multi-threaded brainfuck. so I later had an idea, but I can't tell if it's right, so I was thinking that I should implement a verifying program that generates all the possible states of the system (two processors plus shared memory cells) and does
12:48:13 <wib_jonas> graph traversals on them to prove the properties that I want. the problem is, even if I write the program I wouldn't be confident that I'm checking the right thing, but it still helps. now this sort of locking would be much easier if you could just use nondeterminism (I think that may be kind of how transactional memory works), and if you could
12:48:13 <wib_jonas> eliminate the nondeterminism automatically then maybe you could automatically generate correct locking algorithms in an ordinary deterministic model.
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12:52:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158323&oldid=158163 * None1 * (+346) /* Can you prove computatioal class for esolang xVector? */ new section
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12:57:31 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158324&oldid=158322 * Elphan * (+24)
13:04:33 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158325&oldid=158324 * Elphan * (+4)
13:06:22 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158326&oldid=158325 * Elphan * (-4)
13:08:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158327&oldid=158299 * Elphan * (+13) /* A */
13:08:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158328&oldid=158327 * Elphan * (+0) /* A */
13:10:58 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158329&oldid=158326 * Elphan * (+43)
13:13:02 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158330&oldid=158329 * Elphan * (+10)
13:35:57 <esolangs> [[XVector]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158331&oldid=157941 * Ais523 * (+3378) computational class (it's equivalent to a 1-counter machine, which doesn't have a category)
13:37:14 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158332&oldid=158330 * Elphan * (+34) /* Prints "hi" how many times you want */
13:37:22 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158333&oldid=158332 * Elphan * (+1)
13:41:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158334&oldid=158323 * Ais523 * (+981) /* Can you prove computatioal class for esolang xVector? */ it's a one-counter machine
13:44:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158335&oldid=158334 * Ais523 * (+1) /* Can you prove computatioal class for esolang xVector? */ add missing closing parenthesis
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13:54:05 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158336&oldid=158333 * Elphan * (-76)
13:55:47 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158337&oldid=158336 * Elphan * (-173) /* Description */
13:57:50 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158338&oldid=158337 * Elphan * (-52) /* Syntax */
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14:47:57 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158339&oldid=158338 * Elphan * (-218) /* Description */
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15:03:04 <esolangs> [[FLOORPLAN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158340 * B jonas * (+628) Created page with "'''FLOORPLAN''' is an esoteric programming language. == External link == * Peter Hebden, Anna Williams, Sofia Wolf, `FLOORPLAN`: The language of the future. [https://sigbovik.org/2025/proceedings.pdf (2024-04-04) ed. the Association for Computational Heresy, *a recor
15:03:37 <esolangs> [[FLOORPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158341&oldid=158340 * B jonas * (+11)
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15:28:14 <esolangs> [[FLOORPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158342&oldid=158341 * B jonas * (+139)
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15:39:38 <wib_jonas> SIGBOVIK 2025 p. 293 says that the name of their system is the character \u200D, but it also says that it's "named after the symbol used for function application", and I think the symbol they mean there is \u2061. Why would they give the former name if it's named after the latter? Weird.
15:41:39 <wib_jonas> Fortunately it's esoteric but not a language so I probably don't need to create a page for it on the esowiki and so don't have to decide what its name is.
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15:55:52 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158343&oldid=158303 * Hotcrystal0 * (+75)
15:59:44 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158344&oldid=158343 * Hotcrystal0 * (+192)
15:59:55 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158345&oldid=158344 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
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16:01:28 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158346&oldid=158345 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
16:03:38 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158347&oldid=158346 * Hotcrystal0 * (+24) adding a category
16:06:48 <esolangs> [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158348&oldid=127271 * Hotcrystal0 * (+31) They say this is a cellular automaton disguised as an esolang
16:17:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158349&oldid=155776 * Hotcrystal0 * (+276)
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17:09:55 <ais523> I don't know what I expected
17:10:23 <ais523> apparently it is ACTIVATE ARABIC FORM SHAPING
17:10:46 <ais523> and 200D is ZERO WIDTH JOINER, which is also useful for Arabic I think
17:10:47 <int-e> `` unidecode $(printf '\u206D')
17:10:49 <HackEso> [U+206D ACTIVATE ARABIC FORM SHAPING]
17:11:18 <int-e> `` unidecode $(printf '\u2061')
17:11:19 <HackEso> [U+2061 FUNCTION APPLICATION]
17:11:24 <int-e> `` unidecode $(printf '\u200D')
17:11:27 <HackEso> [U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER]
17:13:18 <ais523> hmm, we have invisible function application, invisible plus, invisible times, invisible comma
17:13:32 <ais523> but no invisible function *composition*
17:14:17 <ais523> now I'm wondering if it's even possible to write gf(x) to mean g(f(x)) – I think I've seen that notation somewhere but I can't remember where
17:14:27 <ais523> but of course invisible composition happens all the time in concatenative langauges
17:17:24 <ais523> I've been pondering how to implement finger trees in Rust – the type system gymnastics used to make them work are beyond even Haskell unless you turn on some extensions, so the whole "make invalid states unrepresentable" thing could be quite difficult
17:18:25 <ais523> I suspect the most efficient solution uses weak typing (i.e. non-disjoint unions), with functions given arguments to tell them what type they're supposed to be acting on and they interpret memory as that type
17:18:41 <b_jonas> ais523: soryr, I meant \u2061 and \u200D
17:18:52 <b_jonas> wait, where does 206D come from?
17:19:20 <ais523> me mixing up the two characters I think
17:19:31 <ais523> I either misread your comment, or miscopied the codepoints into IRC
17:20:20 <b_jonas> ais523: the one I'm missing is two different characters for invisible function composition depending on whether the function is on the left or right of its argument, but you can argue that the function can be on the right only if it's linear and then it's just an invisible multiplication
17:20:46 <ais523> which meaning of "linear" is this?
17:20:53 <int-e> b_jonas: there's always LTR and RTL ;-)
17:21:17 <int-e> (Just a reminder that Unicode is a horrific mess.)
17:21:28 <ais523> oh right! so I discovered that Arabic numerals were originally the correct way round (i.e. little-endian) – the least significant digit was on the right, but Arabic is a right-to-left language
17:21:47 <ais523> however, when they started being used in left-to-right languages, the order of the digits wasn't reversed to compensate for the different writing direction
17:21:57 <ais523> that's how we ended up with our numbers the wrong way round
17:22:15 <b_jonas> ais523: the one where the function is a monoid homomorphism from a monoid to another monoid (usually a group) with the monoid operation is written as multiplication (rather than addition)
17:22:42 <int-e> ais523: well there's also the roman numerals which put the higher-valued ones first
17:23:04 <int-e> "first" - to the left
17:23:06 <b_jonas> a special case could be a linear function mapping a (horizontal) vector to another (horizontal) vector in two vector spaces
17:23:16 <int-e> And what about the Babylonians? I don't even know.
17:23:29 <ais523> b_jonas: is this the same notation which writes the operation that produces a function type from a return type and argument type as exponentiation?
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17:24:57 <ais523> a few years of codegolf convinced me that little-endianness is correct, about the only time big-endian notations saved bytes was when solving challenges that were based on the way humans write numbers
17:25:46 <ais523> so now I have some likely-unknown person in medieval times to be annoyed at for messing up today's computer science
17:26:05 <int-e> big endian is nice for parsing numbers; little endian is nice for printing numbers
17:26:12 <b_jonas> ais523: re digit order, I don't know for sure but I suspect that's because al-Khwarizmi, who popularized decimal positional number system to use for arithmetic, didn't write the numbers inline in text, but as tables in displayed figures, so they didn't look like they're supposed to be words in rtl or ltr text
17:26:17 <int-e> and for arithmetic without base conversion
17:27:02 <int-e> > foldl (\x y -> x*10 + y) 0 [1,2,3]
17:27:32 <ais523> right, parsing is slightly more elegant big-endian
17:28:51 <ais523> oh wow, those FLOORPLAN authors are at the university I worked at for years
17:29:17 <b_jonas> ais523: no, there are three different orders: function on the left is what everyone but algebraists write (though algebraists can also write it), function on the right (algebraists use it when the function is linear), and function in the right superscript (when the function need not be linear)
17:29:32 <b_jonas> also my description about what linear means above is specifically incorrect
17:32:03 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if there is a name for matrices where every row and column contains one 1 (multiplicative identity) and the other elements are 0 (additive identity)? those would be linear in two senses at once
17:34:13 <b_jonas> so a linear unary function from a vector space to another vector space is a function f such that for any scalars α,β and vectors x,y, f(αx+βy) = αf(x)+βf(y). when a function is like that, an algebraist could write the function call f(x) as fx if they think of x as column vectors, or as xf if they think of x as a row vector. (row and column could be swapped depending on conventions, linear algebra
17:34:19 <b_jonas> has like five boolean dimensions of arbitrary notation conventions). if both vector spaces are finite dimensional then f can be imagined as a matrix and the function call is a matrix multiplication.
17:37:30 <b_jonas> algebraists can be more relaxed with this and generalize to other situations than just a linear function from a vector space to another.
17:38:15 <ais523> hmm, to me there seems to be a rule that if the function goes to the right of the argument, its name has to be a capital letter
17:43:50 <b_jonas> now a group homomorphism is a mapping f from a multiplicative group to another such that f(x)f(y)=f(xy). an algebraist can write such a function as a right superscript (exponent), as in instead of f(x) they write x↑f. the origin of this is that if you consider a conjugation with a group element c, defined as f(x)=c⁻¹xc then they write this as a superscript f(x) = x↑c. any conjugation is also a
17:43:56 <b_jonas> group homomorphism because (x↑c)(y↑c) = (c⁻¹xc)(c⁻¹yc) = c⁻¹xyc = (xy)↑c, and that's the same identity that exponentiation to a fixed integer power holds, and exponentiation was already written as a right supersript.
17:45:14 <b_jonas> and if there's a function that's none of these then an algebraist tries to pick whichever of f(x), fx, xf, x↑f makes the most sense, or might even use other less common notations
17:46:29 <b_jonas> like there's right superscript or right subscript for indexing a tensor or any sequence in general
17:46:47 <b_jonas> and notation can get wilder when a function has multiple arguments
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17:55:48 <ais523> fwiw, there are quite a few practical advantages to writing the argument first when doing a function call
17:56:04 <ais523> and lots of languges do object.method().method().method() partly because of that
17:57:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158350&oldid=158317 * Aadenboy * (+776) adding back the messages but removing the rotation transform
17:57:46 <ais523> is |> a builtin in Ocaml? I think it is but am not totally sure
17:58:23 <ais523> (it's like $ in Haskell but the argument comes before the function, and the associativity makes it chain properly, just like $ does)
18:06:34 <zzo38> Many programming languages already have RPN that you have to write the arguments before the function calls, although that is usually using the stack, which is not quite the same as a argument list.
18:07:08 <zzo38> I also believe that Unicode is a mess, but you can do something about it e.g. make a program that does not expect you to use Unicode.
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18:13:02 <zzo38> And, roman numbers have a negative position as well.
18:13:24 <b_jonas> so anyway, literate programming has this thing where the same source code is both interpreted as a traditional programming language source code and printed documentation, but there are a few special transformations during the transformation, like some word are automatically written in bold or italic, and some two-character punctuation is formatted as a specific character. Eg. in C >= means greater
18:13:30 <b_jonas> equal, and in literate C it is formatted as ≥ ; and in Haskell ++ means list concatenation, and it's formatted as two plus signs overlapping horizontally with their vertical lines close to each other and the horizontal line incident.
18:19:52 <esolangs> [[User:RobinsAviary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158351 * RobinsAviary * (+125) Created page with "Hi! I'm Robin from Robin's Aviary! I'm a programmer who is interested in making interpreters for various different esolangs."
18:20:12 <esolangs> [[User:RobinsAviary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158352&oldid=158351 * RobinsAviary * (+13)
18:21:34 <fizzie> Fun fact: |> is used in GoogleSQL's somewhat recently introduced "pipe query syntax", which allows writing some otherwise quite unwieldy, nested-subquery-heavy SQL queries in a more "flat" form: https://cloud.google.com/bigquery/docs/reference/standard-sql/pipe-syntax
18:21:52 <fizzie> For example, you could write `SELECT f(z) AS z, SUM(y) AS y FROM (SELECT z, SUM(w) AS w FROM foo GROUP BY z) WHERE f(z) > 0 GROUP BY z` as `FROM foo |> AGGREGATE SUM(w) AS w GROUP BY z |> EXTEND f(z) AS fz |> WHERE fz > 0 |> AGGREGATE SUM(y) AS y GROUP BY fz AS z`.
18:22:32 <fizzie> (Probably not the best example, but in practice for some actual queries that I can't share I've found it to be easier to follow.)
18:22:33 <ais523> I assume that EXTEND thing is part of the new syntax? I don't remember seeing it in SQL before
18:23:23 <b_jonas> and then Wolfram Mathematica decided to embrace this feature of literate programming and decided to take it further, allowing the programmer to write code that serves both as executable code and formatted as the sort of traditional mathematical notation that mathematicians are used to from traditional typography. so they added conveneitn ways to enter superscripts, subscripts, barred fractions, and
18:23:29 <b_jonas> surrounding square root signs, and stacked binomial coeff notation, and matrix writte as a 2d array of coefficients. And it also added lots of characters that mathematicians may use, like greek letters and ≥ and × but also four invisible infix operators. And I think that's why those four invisible characters are encoded in unicode.
18:24:40 <fizzie> Yeah, `EXTEND` basically adds extra columns to the conceptual result table. It's pretty much the same as `SELECT` except it implicitly selects all the existing columns too.
18:24:53 <b_jonas> fizzie: didn't WITH syntax already existed for that in SQL?
18:25:17 <b_jonas> maybe I don't understand what those SQL expressions that you gave as example mean
18:25:49 <ais523> the order in which you have to write things in standard SQL is weird
18:26:12 <ais523> I think many people have observed that it would make more sense to put the columns being selected at the end and the table at the start
18:26:13 <fizzie> `WITH` defines named temporary tables. I guess it does have some similarity, in that you can also use it to avoid deeply nested subqueries.
18:26:17 <HackEso> WITH`? No such file or directory
18:27:18 <zzo38> WITH can also be used for recursive queries
18:28:27 <b_jonas> ``` hg cat -r 12479 /hackenv/wisdom/password # this was the point when I kind of gave up about SQL syntax
18:28:31 <HackEso> The password of the month is OFFSET 0 ROW FETCH NEXT 50 ROW ONLY.
18:30:22 <b_jonas> the semantics of SQL mostly make sense so I like that, but the syntax is terrible. of course I also think that about C+= and Rust to some extent.
18:31:11 <fizzie> I did have a number of queries that had the form of `WITH foo AS (SELECT ... FROM original_source ...), bar AS (SELECT ... FROM foo ...), baz AS (SELECT ... FROM bar ...) SELECT ... FROM baz ...`, but the pipe syntax removes the need to even give names for all the intermediate steps, for that sort of linear sequence of consecutive operations.
18:31:25 <ais523> fwiw I actually prefer Rust's syntax to its semantics
18:32:12 <ais523> I am planning to write a very long article at some point as to why &mut is a misfeature (which sounds like a crazy statement, so I both need to back it up and present a viable alternative)
18:33:41 <zzo38> What does &mut mean in Rust?
18:34:48 <ais523> it is an exclusive reference: it's like a pointer to some memory but a) it's never null, b) it always contains a value of a particular type (and is statically checked to always contain a bit pattern that is valid for that type), and c) there's a compile-time-checked guarantee that nothing else will read or write the memory it points to until the reference ends
18:35:56 <ais523> …and now I'm wondering how you forcibly end an &mut in Rust – for almost anything you can specify when the lifetime ends with mem::drop but that doesn't work for &mut for… reasons
18:36:24 <ais523> I think it's the only non-Copy type for which that is true
18:39:11 <ais523> (the compiler is very good at inferring where it's supposed to end, though, so there is rarely a reason to end it manually)
18:39:20 <zzo38> (There are probably other misfeatures in Rust as well; I think the main string type using Unicode is a misfeature in many programming languages, and I also once saw someone claiming that the fact that the string must be validated is a misfeature. I think there are probably others as well. C also has misfeatures, including some syntax misfeatures like I mentioned before.)
18:40:19 <zzo38> I think that the compiler should not always have to guess, and that specifying things manually would probably be helpful anyways
18:40:21 <b_jonas> if you write that then I'll certainly want to read it
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18:42:47 <zzo38> From what I understand of Rust (which is not much), such kind of exclusive references like that may be necessary to work with the general working of Rust, although that might itself be a problem, anyways, since maybe it is badly designed in general.
18:45:28 <fizzie> Fun optimization story from #c the other day. Someone had a piece of code along the lines of (streamlining a little here) `struct foo { short x, y; }; bool f(struct foo *p) { return p->x == -1 && p->y == -1 }`, and it turned out Clang creates better code for it when the parameter declaration is changed to `bool f(struct foo p[static 1]) { ... }`. Presumably because for the first one, it has to
18:45:30 <fizzie> account for the scenario where `p->x` is a valid memory reference but `p->y` isn't, so the short-circuiting semantics of && become load-bearing, while `[static 1]` guarantees that an entire full `struct foo` object is accessible through the pointer.
18:47:04 <ais523> zzo38: I do like the approach of "a string is at the language level a list of codepoints, and the application can choose what the codepoints mean" – Perl does that, and allows the codepoints to go up to 2³¹
18:47:28 <fizzie> (The generated code with the [static 1] parameter was also the moral equivalent of `(p->x & p->y) == -1`, which was kind of fun.)
18:47:42 <ais523> fizzie: apparently Rust has struggled with that sort of example in the past
18:48:44 <ais523> I read a blog post reading about how == on a struct with two fields didn't get optimised into one comparison at the time – then I tried it on a more recent version of Rust and it did
18:48:52 <ais523> so I wonder if it's putting in a [static 1] equivalent
18:49:37 <zzo38> ais523: I think that if you do that, then it should be useful to have a string type for 8-bit characters (which should probably the usual one) as well as one for 32-bit characters, and possibly also 1-bit characters is sometimes useful.
18:50:45 <zzo38> (Even in a string of 8-bit characters, you can have multi-byte characters and separate functions for dealing with them; for many uses this is probably the useful way to do it anyways, although there are also circumstances where having a type for a string of 32-bit characters is more useful.)
18:51:00 <ais523> processors have similar short-circuiting issues, e.g. the "loop" opcode is very slow on modern processors because it a) has to handle the case of the branch target being paged out, and b) has to handle the case of the branch target being paged out on the last loop iteration
18:51:33 <ais523> which can lead to an awkward case where cx gets decremented and then you have a page fault in the middle of the instruction
18:51:34 <b_jonas> fizzie: oh wow. so if I define such a structure I should declare it alignas(4) which guarantees that if x can be read then y can be read as well?
18:52:20 <ais523> modern processors would much prefer you to write dec cx; jnz label – because then they can handle the case of a page fault by just leaving the IP in between the two instructions
18:52:50 <ais523> (it's parsed as a single instruction by the front end – the long encoding is just there to allow the IP to be left in the middle)
18:52:50 <b_jonas> ais523: I think that could also depend on the known alignment of the struct
18:53:13 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't know whether or not compilers optimise based on "if any address on a cache line is readable, then the entire cache line is readable"
18:53:33 <fizzie> Yes, I think an alignment-based argument could also make it safe, although I was unable to convince Clang to make use of it.
18:53:38 <int-e> ais523: it's circular too (I like to use the word co-evolution): since basically nobody uses the `loop` instruction anymore there's no incentive to deal with the complication you mentioned efficiently in the processor.
18:53:42 <ais523> in particular, I don't know of an architectural guarantee that cache lines won't be smaller in the future
18:54:02 <zzo38> If pages with memory access permissions are required to be aligned (and the compiler knows this), then I should expect that specifying required alignment should be allowed to work?
18:54:06 <ais523> which means that it could technically be incorrect to assume that
18:54:13 <fizzie> Human-written code certainly does make that assumption sometimes.
18:54:37 <fizzie> Specifically, string function implementations that read past the '\0' when they know they're working on aligned data.
18:54:38 <ais523> I think there is a practical requirement to keep cache lines at at least 64 bytes, it would break a lot of code to make them smaller
18:55:06 <b_jonas> ais523: this would be an architecture-dependent optimization, but that's fine because it's also architecture-dependent if you want to optimize to a single 32-bit comparison
18:55:33 <ais523> b_jonas: right, the question is as to what future processors may be the same architecture but have different caching mechanisms
18:55:57 <b_jonas> and obviously you should declare the type that way only if you relaly can guarantee that it's aligned, you can't slap it onto an existing type because that can break ABI-compatibility
18:56:17 <zzo38> Is LOOP opcode sometimes used for stuff other than loops? (I had made VM codes that have a LOOP opcode and then often use it for stuff other than loops)
18:56:19 <ais523> there are lots of examples of this sort of thing, e.g. is a processor that returns 0 for bsr on 0 a valid x86-64 processor?
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18:56:46 <int-e> ais523: thanks btw, I had not considered the fact that there's no point between decrementing the loop counter and the conditional jump to be a complication.
18:56:58 <ais523> (the Intel manual says it's undefined but Intel processors return the value that was in the output register beforehand, and AMD processors document it as returning the value that was in the output register beforehand)
18:57:44 <ais523> zzo38: it could be, but nowadays it's rarely used for anything but codegolfing because it's so slow
18:58:34 <int-e> But I do not see that it is *necessarily* a costly complication; among all the other speculation and instruction reordering it feels like a pretty small thing. But add the fact that nobody uses the instruction and it makes sense that you punt on dealing with it.
19:01:36 <fizzie> FWIW, I didn't get Clang to make it a 32-bit comparison even with [static 1]. It removed the branching needed to avoid evaluating the other half, but even so still read the data as two 16-bit words. It also generated worse code for comparing "arbitrary" values than the all-bits-one ones. Here's an illustration: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/P55zWqrnj
19:02:52 <fizzie> (Also tried slapping an `__attribute__ ((aligned (4)))` on it, but that did nothing.)
19:03:55 <b_jonas> ais523: x86 in the broader sense does NOT guarantee that, because in 32-bit protected mode data segments that are less than 2**20 bytes long can have any length at byte precision. but x86-64 user mode guarantees trivial segmentation, so in x86-64 if part of any page (in the processor sense, not the operating system sense) is readable then the whole page is readable, and pages are 2**12 bytes or a
19:04:01 <b_jonas> multiple. an I/O device can break this but in C or rust you'd have to use a volatile read for those.
19:05:08 <int-e> Funny though... this week I rewrote an inner loop in assembly and it made it 2x faster. It was... unexpected. https://paste.debian.net/1376253/ (target is a Haswell processor)
19:07:17 <ais523> int-e: it's surprising to see how much more the compilers spilled than you
19:07:26 <int-e> yeah I thought so too
19:08:49 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158353&oldid=126966 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+904) Introduced an examples section comprehending as its two incipial members a repeating cat program and a Hello, World! printer.
19:09:15 <ais523> one other weirdness is that the "lucky" g++ version appears to have multiple different targets to jump to from the loop, and the others have a single exit point
19:09:23 <b_jonas> fizzie: I'm never quite sure when x86 uses sign-extend versus zero-extend, but I think in your example code f2 which compares to -1 can use the shorter instruction encoding that has a one byte long immediate -1 in the instruction and sign-extends that to a short, and you can't do that when comparing to arbitrary
19:09:48 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158354&oldid=158353 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+612) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Brainfuck programming language on GitHub and supplemented the Implemented category tag.
19:09:53 <int-e> I actually took it one step further too, unrolling the loop one more time, which doesn't help on haswell but I did find a processor that executes the resulting loop in 3.5 cycles per iteration (EPYC Rome).
19:10:44 <fizzie> Well, the -1 case also ands the two halves of the struct together and performs just one comparison, that only works in the all-bits-one case of -1.
19:11:02 <int-e> ais523: In the end I test each byte of the vector comparison individually. The "lucky" version omitted the bulk zero test and just does those individual ones.
19:11:57 <int-e> (each byte corresponds to one of the 8 byte values in the YMM register)
19:13:07 <int-e> ais523: That's actually why I even looked at the assembly code... I /knew/ the value would be 0 almost all the time, so I did if (!mask) continue; before testing the individual bytes. But for g++ that made the code slower and I had no idea why.
19:13:28 <ais523> int-e: ah, I see, you are over-reading
19:13:30 <int-e> value = resulting mask from the comparison
19:13:42 <ais523> in this case it shouldn't matter because you are over-reading from a set of integer registers
19:13:48 <ais523> but it may be hard for compilers to figure that out
19:14:17 <b_jonas> int-e: yeah, anything like strcmp/strscn/strlen that you implement with vpmovmskb is exaclty a kind of code where I would expect that writing it in assembly (or calling a lower level library function implemented in hand-written assembly) will help
19:15:16 <b_jonas> I guess this is more like strnscn
19:15:19 <int-e> ais523: anyway, I /tried/ to help the compilers by writing the exact inner loop I wanted but they still spilled the register contents all over the place.
19:15:27 <b_jonas> or strcscn or whatever it's called
19:15:28 <ais523> I eventually ended up finding a better algorithm, but for a while a program I was writing had a branch that was only 1 in 4 billion to be taken (it required an effectively random 32-bit number to have a particular value), and yet it had to be there for correctness
19:15:45 <int-e> Conclusion: Compilers still are kind of stupid, and *sometimes* it can really hurt.
19:15:51 <ais523> and I thought "I should probably put an unlikely annotation on this, once those get stabilised in Rust)
19:16:18 <ais523> (it would have mattered because the check was short-circuitable but it looked unpredictable to LLVM, so it didn't try to short-circuit)
19:19:53 <int-e> ais523: over-reading... vpmovmskb wants a 64 bit destination argument, and I wanted to let the compiler assign the register. I don't know whether there's a magic incantation to get %eax from %rax, nor whether that would make any difference
19:21:46 <int-e> Anyway. It's atypical code, and when I wrote the inline assembly I was hoping for maybe 20% faster code, not 2x faster. :-)
19:22:23 <int-e> (I had not actually computed cycle counts at that point, just observed a very high variance in runtime from different compiler outputs.)
19:23:25 <int-e> May I add that from a 90's person perspective the idea of executing 9 instructions in 2 cycles is insane. :-)
19:24:25 <Sgeo> The Thing King! https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Paging
19:24:28 <Sgeo> I am easily amused
19:29:03 <int-e> Sgeo: So they implemented this in a Thing King Machine?
19:29:52 <ais523> <int-e> I don't know whether there's a magic incantation to get %eax from %rax, nor whether that would make any difference ← gcc has one of those for inline asm and I think Rust does too
19:29:53 <b_jonas> ais523: doesn't calling a #[cold] function work as an unlikeliness annotation? (or raising a panic, but that's probably not appropriate in your case.)
19:29:54 <int-e> (The timing doesn't quite work out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_Machines_Corporation was founded in 1983)
19:30:24 <ais523> b_jonas: probably, but it also has other side effects
19:31:31 <ais523> likely/unlikely/cold_path seem fairly close to stablisation, I think the main concerns were based around whether all three functions were needed and what exactly the semantics were
19:31:56 <ais523> I'm not sure how much discussion there was of whether an unpredictable was needed
19:41:18 <ais523> in general, though, compilers are very bad at vectorising things that are even slightly nontrivial and I'm not completely sure why
19:41:56 <ais523> I have plans to go the other way – a language in which you can *only* write code that vectorises well, and a compiler for it that gives guaranteed efficient vectorisation
19:44:50 <b_jonas> ais523: yeah, I was thinking of something like that, a low-level array programming language
19:45:22 <b_jonas> though that still leaves lots of choices open so I may be thinking of something very different from you
19:45:28 <ais523> right, I realised after a while that I was supposed to give it APLish semantics where the program is written as though it's a linear sequence of operations on arrays
19:45:46 <ais523> even though it optimises into a fused loop
19:45:54 <int-e> ais523: Ah. The keyword is "operand modifier". The particular incantation is that "%k0" gives you %eax when %0 is rax. Or "%h0" gives you %rax from %eax though I guess that's theoretically dangerous.
19:46:32 <ais523> int-e: writing to %eax zeroes the rest of %rax, so the theoretical danger could be avoided by setting the high part to 0 when you're done
19:47:03 <ais523> processor designers seemed to have realised that "writing to the low part of a register zeroes the high part" gradually
19:47:22 <ais523> *that "…" is more efficient
19:48:03 <ais523> although, something that confuses me – writing to an xmm register with SSE instructions leaves the high part of the corresponding ymm alone, whereas writing to it with AVX instructions zeroes the rest of the ymm
19:48:29 <ais523> but AVX and ymm were introduced at the same time, weren't they? so why even bother to give the older commands slow behaviour when mixed with the newer ones?
19:48:33 <int-e> anyway, testing just %eax makes no difference to the runtime here
19:48:56 <int-e> (I didn't expect any)
19:49:19 <ais523> hacks like vzeroupper were introduced to paper over the mess, but there are still a number of different ways that processors try to optimise it, none of which are really satisfactory, and it makes ABIs slower as well
19:50:01 <b_jonas> ais523: the problem is that there's a tradeoff here. if writing to the low part zeroes the high part, that's more efficient and easier to write ordinary functions in. but it also makes it harder to be compatible with a program written for an earlier version of the architecture, because when the older code tries to save and restore a callee-save register then it will accidentally zero the upper part of
19:51:10 <ais523> b_jonas: oh, I see, it's so that programs that use avx2 can call sse subroutines without breaking things, if there are call-preserved vector registers
19:51:55 <ais523> but, I think that combination is normally forbidden anyway because processors are so slow at doing the register merge – the x86-64 ABI bans letting SSE code ever see the high half of a ymm as nonzero
19:52:07 <b_jonas> this is why in x86, the SSE2 instructions don't change the high part of YMM registers, but the similar AVX instructions that still act on just the lower 16 bytes of a YMM register zero the upper part of the YMM register, because any compiler that emits the AVX encoding knows how to save and restore all 32 bytes
19:52:09 <int-e> ais523: an unlikely annotation does help clang out quite a bit; g++ doesn't do anything useful with it.
19:52:17 <ais523> meaning that you have to call vzeroupper on function return if you use any avx2, and in turn meaning avx2 registers can't be call-preserved
19:52:38 <ais523> right, I see the reasoning
19:52:44 <ais523> compatibility at the cost of performance
19:53:03 <int-e> clang manages to produce a 3 cycle version of the inner loop with the annotations.
19:53:09 <ais523> but the compatibility cases got soft-banned by the people who standardised the ABI
19:54:29 <int-e> and I guess https://paste.debian.net/1376259/ looks decent; no more spills
19:55:04 <ais523> oh, it's an integer addition, not a pointer addition
19:55:10 <ais523> it's just using the pointer addition command
19:55:20 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, but that "soft-banned" just means that YMM registers can never be callee-saved, even though you could probably write/compile more efficient code if you had a few callee-saved ones
19:55:40 <ais523> the use of %rbp caught me out because I initially assumed it was on a really big stack frame
19:55:48 <int-e> related to the loop upper bound
19:55:54 <ais523> but of course that would use a negative numbr
19:56:27 <b_jonas> MMX was even worse in this respect, but fortunately nobody wants to use MMX much anyway for other reasons too, so it doesn't matter
19:56:43 <ais523> the use of xor rather than cmp is really weird, even though it shouldn't matter – I assume that's for the benefit of the code after the loop
19:57:09 <ais523> I think MMX is top of the list of "never use this vectorising mechanism" for most people who hand-vectorise
19:57:33 <int-e> ais523: I'm missing two more instructions: https://paste.debian.net/1376260/
19:57:44 <b_jonas> no, technically 3Dmax is on the top of that list
19:58:07 <b_jonas> but that's kind of cheating
19:58:10 <int-e> and /previously/ clang++ combined the two conditions into a single one and the arithmetic looked vaguely complex enough for that
19:58:12 <ais523> didn't a few 3Dmax! instructions get stolen and become part of some other instruciton set?
19:58:28 <ais523> hmm, or was it called 3Dnow! ?
19:58:38 <int-e> 3Dnow! was a thing
19:58:40 <b_jonas> so irrelevant that I don't even remember its name
19:58:56 <b_jonas> does it really have an exclamation mark like CorelDraw! and Irregular Webcomic!?
19:59:13 <ais523> yes (just looked it up)
19:59:41 <int-e> ais523: it is kind of funny that that `lea` is in there... it could be done outside of the loop
20:00:56 <int-e> and I guess those two lea-s make the difference between 3 cycles and 2 cycles
20:01:06 <ais523> looks like MMX is integer arithmetic and 3Dnow! is float arithmetic, both in mm registers
20:03:06 <ais523> int-e: there are 10 instructions there and most modern Intel compilers decode at the rate of 4 per cycle, so that would explain the 3-cycle performance
20:03:16 <int-e> g++ does this and I don't even know where it found so many registers to add 4 to in the inner loop. https://paste.debian.net/1376262/
20:03:34 <int-e> ais523: you meant CPUs :)
20:04:27 <b_jonas> nice, that could be funny for legal problems as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8xhdL8BPvU&t=427s “Side note. I particularly enjoyed how since the title of <i>Sharks!</i> includes an exclamation mark, so too must all these legal documents, which was funny every time I read it. SHARKS!”
20:05:14 <int-e> ais523: Hmm, do you know whether the x86_64 ABI requires the upper 32 bits to be 0 for 32-bit values passed in registers?
20:05:29 <int-e> (otherwise I'll check)
20:05:40 <int-e> (SysV ABI of course)
20:05:40 <ais523> int-e: I did once but can't remember
20:06:03 <b_jonas> ais523: I don't think they can decode 4 instructions per cycle when there's so many vector instructions involved, and it shouldn't matter in a short inner loop because the decoded form will be cached in like two or three different ways
20:07:35 <b_jonas> int-e: check in Agner's documentation, that's more readable than the original ABI descriptions
20:08:43 <ais523> ouch, apparently the SysV ABI says that for booleans, the bits above the bottom 8 are unspecified when used as an argument or return value, but the high 63 bits have to be 0 in other situations
20:08:57 <ais523> I'm not sure what the difference is or even what other situations might matter
20:09:49 <ais523> b_jonas: indeed, caching is possible – I was wondering whether it might also be bottlenecked by compute units, but it's hard to calculate that in my head
20:10:11 <ais523> on Intel there are four compute units but not all of them can handle all operations (and one of them only does very simple integer arithmetic like adds and compares)
20:13:41 <ais523> int-e: so I've checked twice and haven't seen where the ABI talks about the high bits of registers, except for booleans and long double
20:16:54 <ais523> <ais523> I'm not sure what the difference is or even what other situations might matter ← I figured it out, if there are so many arguments that booleans have to be passed using the stack, they're given 8-byte stack slots and those have to be encoded as 0LL or 1LL
20:19:02 <int-e> ais523: Yeah I don't see any guarantee either so I guess the top bits are arbitrary.
20:20:23 <b_jonas> int-e: if you want to write a boolean into a GP register or memory word, you'll often do it with the 386 SETcc instructions, and those write just one byte, whereas if you're returning a 32-bit integer into a register you'll usually write it with an instruction that zeroes the upper 32 bits
20:20:33 <ais523> compilers seem to generate code that makes no assumptions about the top bits of the arguments that functions receive
20:20:46 <ais523> b_jonas: did you mean to ping me there
20:21:26 <b_jonas> yeah, you ais523 brought up the booleans specificaly
20:24:06 <int-e> b_jonas: Yes I realize that the upper half is *usually* cleared anyway because that's what the CPU does (to reduce data dependencies).
20:24:07 <ais523> do we have a HackEso command to convert asm to machine code?
20:24:26 <ais523> `` ls -1 bin/ | grep as
20:24:44 <ais523> `` ls -1 /hackenv/bin/
20:24:46 <HackEso> \ \ \ ! \ " \ # \ ' \ ( \ : \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ^.^ \ ` \ `^ \ `` \ ¿ \ ؟ \ ⁗ \ 🌱 \ `̀ \ welcome \ ,1 \ 1 \ 13 \ 1492 \ ,2 \ 2 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 5w \ 8-ball \ 8ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ acronym \ addquote \ addscowrevs \ addtodo \ addwhatis \ age \ aglist \ airport \ airport-lookup \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ as86 \ as-encoding \ asm \ asmbf \ asmbfx \ autowelcome \ bconv \ beat \
20:25:14 <ais523> `` cat /hackenv/bin/as-encoding
20:25:15 <HackEso> echo "$1" | as -o /tmp/out.o - && objdump -d /tmp/out.o | grep -P '^ *[0-9a-f]+:' | sed 's/^[^\t]*\t//; s/ *\t/: /g'
20:26:01 <ais523> `as-encoding prefetch (%rsi)
20:26:23 <ais523> OK, so that *was* a 3Dnow! instruction, but apparently the encoding was changed
20:26:35 <ais523> to no longer be in the 3Dnow! namespace
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21:00:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158355&oldid=155039 * Tommyaweosme * (+202)
21:01:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:CAPI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158356&oldid=158355 * Tommyaweosme * (+21)
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21:07:23 <esolangs> [[Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158357 * Tommyaweosme * (+402) Created page with "If we write all the numbers big-endian, like 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,01,11,21... then put a decimal point before it and put all the numbers before that, like 0.0, 0.1, 0.2... 0.01, 0.11.. 1.0, 1.1... then since infinity squared is stil
21:07:38 <esolangs> [[Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158358&oldid=158357 * Tommyaweosme * (+20) category
21:08:12 <esolangs> [[Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158359&oldid=158358 * Tommyaweosme * (+10)
21:09:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158360 * Ais523 * (+370) explain why this is wrong
21:10:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:Boltzmann brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158361&oldid=158309 * Tommyaweosme * (+361)
21:27:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158362&oldid=158360 * Tommyaweosme * (+364)
21:30:23 <int-e> ...another person confused by the difference between "arbitrarily long" and "infinitely long"
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21:30:51 <int-e> but I hate for it to take place on a wiki of all places
21:31:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158363&oldid=158362 * Ais523 * (+303) p-adic numbers are only countable due to repeating if you include nonrepeating numbers in the same style, there are uncountably many
21:31:23 <int-e> s/take place/happen/ (hate the word near-duplication)
21:34:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Boltzmann brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158364&oldid=158361 * Int-e * (+128) scnr
21:35:08 <int-e> (I really shouldn't have because it'll just act as troll fodder.)
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21:45:14 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158365&oldid=154058 * Corbin * (+222) /* History */ Context for Gosper's 1970 construction, as related by Conway to Simon Peyton Jones.
21:59:18 <b_jonas> int-e: hold on, let me grab my mono-white infinite lifegain combo deck
22:07:53 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1326.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
22:09:37 <Sgeo> I saw it, but completely forgot about olisting
22:12:43 <Sgeo> Trying to recall when I've did pseudomathy stuff. Um, believing 2/0 = 4/0 != 3/0, shortly before instead watching all x/0 except 0/0 collapse into the same thing.
22:13:44 <Sgeo> Trying to define a number @ such that |@| = -1, but |x| is a ... definitions thing, not so much a function that can be easily extended to new kinds of numbers without definitions anyway, I... think?
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23:14:24 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/awesomenet website format]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158366 * Tommyaweosme * (+584) Created page with "awesomenet website format (awf) is a modified version of html used for awesomenet (found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sOSj-Gv6Kyu4DLou2aGoTioKh7beHmfx_fe5kCCsRUM/edit?usp=sharing). == commands == <h<b></b>1>a</<b></b>h1
23:20:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158367&oldid=158363 * Tommyaweosme * (+231)
23:21:37 <esolangs> [[Countable infinity is uncountable infinity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158368&oldid=158359 * Tommyaweosme * (+101)
23:32:01 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158369&oldid=158202 * Tommyaweosme * (+30)
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00:00:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158370&oldid=158356 * Hotcrystal0 * (+292)
00:35:29 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158371 * Dmiz * (+1806) Created page with "Neko is a esolang created to be simple <br> Exist two types of commands, the commands and subcommands<br> The commands are used as commands, like in python <br> The subcommands are used in commands and are writen with ( and ) Codes are represented with { and } <br> His have
00:36:26 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158372&oldid=158371 * Aadenboy * (+1)
00:44:22 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158373&oldid=158372 * Dmiz * (+252)
01:55:53 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158374&oldid=158347 * Helpeesl * (+68) Im done
02:05:52 <esolangs> [[Tommyaweosme's harmonica]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158375 * Tommyaweosme * (+1357) Created page with "{{lowercase}}tommyaweosme's harmonica is a programming language designed by [[user:tommyaweosme]] where every command is playable on his harmonica every note is a variable, and some notes are commands. == commands == 1B XX - declares a variable
02:06:06 <esolangs> [[Tommyaweosme's harmonica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158376&oldid=158375 * Tommyaweosme * (+31) /* trivia */
02:08:26 <esolangs> [[Tommyaweosme's harmonica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158377&oldid=158376 * Tommyaweosme * (+115) categories
02:08:51 <esolangs> [[Tommyaweosme's harmonica]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158378&oldid=158377 * Tommyaweosme * (-23) not cell-based not that i can think of
02:22:13 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158379&oldid=158369 * Tommyaweosme * (+57)
02:40:39 <esolangs> [[User:Elphan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158380 * Elphan * (+48) Created page with "hello um idk i made this * [[Ampell]] yeah"
02:41:15 <esolangs> [[User:Elphan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158381&oldid=158380 * Elphan * (+2)
02:41:22 <esolangs> [[User:Elphan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158382&oldid=158381 * Elphan * (+1)
02:46:17 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158383&oldid=158339 * Elphan * (+57) /* Syntax */
02:47:54 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158384&oldid=158263 * PrySigneToFry * (+166)
02:56:15 <esolangs> [[Langage de programmation du cur]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158385&oldid=158236 * PrySigneToFry * (+319)
02:58:46 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158386&oldid=158383 * Elphan * (+0) /* Prints "hi" how many times you want */
03:03:54 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158387&oldid=158386 * Elphan * (+37) /* Simple fork bomb */
03:17:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158388&oldid=158370 * PrySigneToFry * (+868)
03:17:52 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/TCP1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158389&oldid=157142 * Cycwin * (+18)
03:18:22 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158390&oldid=155783 * PrySigneToFry * (+54)
03:22:08 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158391&oldid=158374 * PrySigneToFry * (+270)
03:23:23 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158392&oldid=158391 * PrySigneToFry * (+94)
03:23:42 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158393&oldid=158392 * Aadenboy * (-270) pstf the esolang is done smh
03:26:34 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158394&oldid=158393 * Aadenboy * (-93)
03:48:55 <esolangs> [[Brafunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158395&oldid=158178 * C0ffee * (-8)
03:59:30 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158396&oldid=158328 * C0ffee * (+33)
04:01:45 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158397&oldid=158387 * Elphan * (+19) /* Syntax */
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05:31:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * A.Robot * New user account
05:47:01 <zzo38> Is there any specific word to indicate C libraries that do not do any I/O except by FILE objects given by the caller and/or callback functions given by the caller? I think this would be useful for many uses, so some C libraries that I write are designed to work like this.
05:50:25 <Sgeo> zzo38, have you ever looked at JCL? Or simpler JCL-like things? Because it's fascinating to me that a program on systems that use that will specify "names" for files, but the actual file to use is given outside the program
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05:52:56 <Sgeo> e,g, in MUSIC/SP (which doesn't use JCL but something simpler) the statement `/file obj1 n(testprog.obj) new(repl)` causes the program that wants to use a file called "obj1" to use "testprog.obj"
05:53:29 <Sgeo> Which doesn't answer your question >.> but seems related. I may be obsessed with MUSIC/SP currently
05:56:15 <Sgeo> I suppose that gives the programmer control over which file is used, but not the caller of a library
05:59:31 <Sgeo> Or address other I/O. I suppose that whether a given function "does I/O" depends on which library it's linked to. If I write code that tries to use sockets, but link a fake socket library, does that count as doing I/O?
05:59:58 <Sgeo> (None of this negates the practical utility of no-I/O-except-by-provided-FILE-objects)
06:09:32 <zzo38> In my idea of operating system design, files do not have names; however, my question is not related to that either (but is necessary if you want to use the library on such an operating system (or on one that doesn't have files)).
06:10:52 <zzo38> Some SDL functions are capable of working in a similar way than I described but can also be used with file names. (e.g. SDL_LoadWAV_RW and SDL_LoadWAV)
06:11:40 <zzo38> I do not remember if I had seen that about JCL before, although I might have done and not remembered.
06:12:35 <zzo38> (I had heard of JCL before but not known much about it.)
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06:53:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158398&oldid=158350 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+144) /* Cinnamony */ new section
07:04:34 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158399&oldid=158397 * Elphan * (+6) /* Description */
07:44:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158400&oldid=158398 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+120) /* Cinnamony */
07:51:35 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158401&oldid=158399 * Elphan * (-89) /* Syntax */
08:02:28 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158402&oldid=158401 * Elphan * (+6)
08:03:16 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158403&oldid=158402 * Elphan * (+2) /* Interpreters */
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11:24:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158404&oldid=158335 * None1 * (+511) /* Can you prove computatioal class for esolang xVector? */
11:25:51 <esolangs> [[XVector]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158405&oldid=158331 * None1 * (+1) /* Computational class */ I'm sorry, it's unimplemented, but an implementation is on the way
11:26:02 <esolangs> [[XVector]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158406&oldid=158405 * None1 * (+1)
11:27:28 <esolangs> [[Vector]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158407&oldid=155422 * None1 * (+27) /* Interpreters */
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11:43:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Alikberoff * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Prefixes order controller (SN74xx).png]]": Version for print
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12:30:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158409&oldid=158400 * Tommyaweosme * (+308) /* Cinnamony */
12:33:09 <esolangs> [[CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158410&oldid=155260 * Tommyaweosme * (+72)
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12:41:52 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosmalt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158411&oldid=151056 * Tommyaweosmalt * (-136)
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12:45:20 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158412&oldid=158268 * Tommyaweosmalt * (+73) added [[tommyaweosme's harmonica]]
13:06:30 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158413&oldid=158384 * Hotcrystal0 * (-37)
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13:46:22 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/why it wouldnt work/User:Cinnamony/Guides/Become dead]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158414 * Tommyaweosme * (+1102) Created page with "there are 3 main methods mentioned in this article: # staying up until 1:00 AM and jumping out of your window # buying a shovel and burying yourself with it # go to a pool, ask the lifeguards not to r
13:46:31 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/why it wouldnt work/User:Cinnamony/Guides/Become dead]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158415&oldid=158414 * Tommyaweosme * (+0) /* why it wouldnt work = */
13:50:56 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/why it wouldnt work]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158416 * Tommyaweosme * (+189) Created page with "why it wouldnt work is a series made by [[user:tommyaweosme]] on various things hosted on the esolangspace that would not work! what is meant by esolangspace is anything hosted on esolang."
14:05:16 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/why it wouldnt work/User:Cinnamony/Guides/Break someone]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158417 * Tommyaweosme * (+2314) Created page with "oh wow, there really is a lot to cover for this one. == why it wouldnt work == === level 1 === # going near someone obviously wont BREAK someone unless their social anxiety is through the roof # aski
14:05:42 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/why it wouldnt work/User:Cinnamony/Guides/Break someone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158418&oldid=158417 * Tommyaweosme * (-1) WHY THE FUCK DO I KEEP MAKING HEADER TYPOS JEGSJXNGSDJFKZENWMGSDHJFSK
14:08:55 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/why it wouldnt work/User:Cinnamony/Guides/Break someone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158419&oldid=158418 * Tommyaweosme * (+1) /* what you actually want to do */ aeaeae vendetta isnt a generic term
14:13:46 <esolangs> [[Boltzmann brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158420&oldid=158302 * Tommyaweosme * (+470)
14:16:09 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/awesomenet website format]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158421&oldid=158366 * Tommyaweosme * (+106)
14:17:31 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/awesomenet markup language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158422 * Tommyaweosme * (+903) Created page with "awesomenet markup language is a markup language used for awesomenet (found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sOSj-Gv6Kyu4DLou2aGoTioKh7beHmfx_fe5kCCsRUM/edit?tab=t.qbe1eqejzu7x) (please make a website on it, you CAN leave yo
14:57:03 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158423&oldid=158403 * Elphan * (+74)
15:05:55 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158424&oldid=157269 * PkmnQ * (-1) /* Brainhype, Hyperon, and Loop preventing brainfuck */
15:07:39 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/Hypercomputable implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158425&oldid=158424 * PkmnQ * (+19) /* Brainhype, Hyperon, and Loop preventing brainfuck */
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15:43:47 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158426&oldid=156223 * C++DSUCKER * (+27)
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16:51:19 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158427&oldid=158267 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+27) /* Natural numbers */
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17:02:07 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158428&oldid=158427 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+423) /* Natural numbers */
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17:24:17 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158429&oldid=158293 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+211) /* comp. model */
17:37:41 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158430&oldid=158373 * Dmiz * (+10)
17:39:08 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158431&oldid=158430 * Dmiz * (-6)
17:39:16 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158432&oldid=158431 * Dmiz * (+0)
17:40:25 <esolangs> [[User:H33T33]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158433&oldid=158166 * H33T33 * (-10)
17:43:14 <esolangs> [[Nekol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158434&oldid=158432 * Dmiz * (+72)
17:45:46 <esolangs> [[ROTHELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158435&oldid=158278 * JORE * (-32)
17:48:32 <esolangs> [[User:Dmiz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158436&oldid=156130 * Dmiz * (+14)
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18:14:17 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158437&oldid=158429 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+494) /* Computational model */
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19:44:44 <esolangs> [[Convert]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158438&oldid=151006 * AdjectiveNounNumber * (+117) /* Componets */
19:53:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158439&oldid=157522 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+178) /* Needs name */ new section
19:56:22 <esolangs> [[Convert]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158440&oldid=158438 * AdjectiveNounNumber * (+511)
19:57:16 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158441&oldid=158428 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Natural numbers */
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21:00:48 <Sgeo> Suddenly I want a list of languages with unusual return constructs.
21:01:09 <Sgeo> E.g. VB where you assign to the name of the function. Rexx (which I'm trying to wrap my brain around now) a special variable called result
21:03:26 <Sgeo> Wait, I'm misunderstanding the Rexx code.
21:03:42 <Sgeo> The *caller* accesses the result via result... or at least that's what this sample code is doing
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21:08:08 <b_jonas> Sgeo: sample? how can you get samples when the Rosetta Code wobsite is unreachable?
21:09:04 * Sgeo is reading https://rexxinfo.org/Rexx_Programmers_Reference.pdf
21:10:00 <Sgeo> I think this language is unpleasant but useful for retroprogramming :/
21:10:14 <Sgeo> Mainframes, Amiga, OS/2 I think?
21:17:07 <Sgeo> Uninitialized variables contain their uppercased name initially
21:20:14 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158442&oldid=158396 * Buckets * (+13)
21:20:41 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158443&oldid=158300 * Buckets * (+12)
21:20:58 <esolangs> [[Billow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158444 * Buckets * (+6368) Created page with "Billow is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Pseudo-Commands !! Instructions |- | 0,0,0 || Noop. |- | 0,0,+ || Push 1. |- | 0,0,- || Push 2. |- | 0,+,0 || Push 3. |- | 0,+,+ || Push 4. |- | 0,+,- || Push 5. |-
21:22:52 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158445&oldid=158443 * Buckets * (+0) /* Total of Esolangs */
21:23:33 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158446&oldid=157540 * Buckets * (+0)
21:23:43 <Sgeo> foo is an array, and this indexes on the value of bar. If bar hasn't been set to something else, it contains BAR
21:23:58 <Sgeo> So... depending on that, it's getting the value for BAR or getting something else
21:26:05 <Sgeo> "In many programming languages, you must be concerned with what the subscript of the first entry in a
21:26:05 <Sgeo> table is. Is the first numeric subscript 0 or 1? In Rexx, the first subscript is whatever you use! So, input
21:26:05 <Sgeo> the first array element into position 0 or 1 as you prefer:"
21:28:55 <Sgeo> "As an informal convention, many Rexx programmers store the number of array elements in position 0,
21:28:55 <Sgeo> then start storing data elements in position 1:"
21:31:18 <zzo38> I think it is useful to allow the number of the first entry in an array to be any integer. Often zero is good enough, but there are also cases where 1 or other numbers (sometimes including negative numbers) are useful. However, other programming languages also do this, such as BASIC.
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22:50:42 <esolangs> [[6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158447&oldid=158247 * Skip Broke * (+1) /* Python version */ This is a polyglot
22:52:48 <Sgeo> It's possible for control flow to accidentally flow into subroutines from the main code if not coded against
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00:04:16 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158448&oldid=158413 * PrySigneToFry * (+24)
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01:36:43 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My words]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158449&oldid=151807 * PrySigneToFry * (+48)
01:39:05 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158450&oldid=158394 * PrySigneToFry * (+270) My attempt is to make this language Turing-complete so I linked this language with Python.
01:42:44 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158451&oldid=158450 * PrySigneToFry * (+118)
01:46:02 <esolangs> [[User programmed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158452&oldid=158451 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
01:47:57 <esolangs> [[Nya~*kwrgsfish+-HQ9`:'"rbtAzxdi8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158453&oldid=158260 * PrySigneToFry * (+101)
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02:01:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CopperTones * New user account
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02:15:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158454&oldid=158312 * CopperTones * (+384) Hello World!
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02:33:25 <zzo38> I thought to make up a HOST command in IRC and NNTP, which is like the "Host:" header of HTTP. (I don't know if they already have something like that.)
02:34:05 <JAA> IRC does not.
02:34:07 <zzo38> The HOST command is not allowed to be used with an encrypted connection, and in the case of IRC it must be sent before any other commands (including USER).
02:34:35 <JAA> To create multiple logical IRC servers with a single ircd?
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02:35:46 <zzo38> In the case of NNTP, the response from the server if it is used successfully allows the same responses that the server will respond to the initial connection (but does not have to be the same response; it is the same set of responses that is allowed), and all of the state of the protocol is reset.
02:37:26 <zzo38> Creating multiple logical IRC servers with a single ircd is one use, although there are other uses as well, such as if multiple users want to run a server on the same computer (with different settings and maybe even a different implementation), or for a forwarding service that forwards version 4 to version 6 internet or from internet to one of my computers in LAN, etc.
02:40:28 <zzo38> Virtual hosting is useful for many reasons like that. Some protocols already support it (TLS, HTTP, Gemini, Scorpion) and some don't (SSH, Gopher). In some cases, even if it is not already have it, it could be added, such as in this case of IRC and NNTP.
02:42:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158455&oldid=124318 * CopperTones * (+684) mi toki
02:44:05 <esolangs> [[User:CopperTones]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158456 * CopperTones * (+34) Created page with "hi, poke me so i make this or smth"
02:44:55 <JAA> It does also add significant complexity though.
02:45:33 <JAA> Re multiple separate ircds on the same IP, is there a way to pass a socket to another process, or would you have to proxy?
02:46:42 <JAA> Proxying would be annoying because you would then also have to pass the true client IP through to the ircd.
02:48:52 <zzo38> I think you can pass a socket to another process. Also, servers that have no use for virtual hosting would not be required to implement it, anyways.
02:55:57 <zzo38> Is there C library for cryptography with one .c file and one .h file?
02:57:48 <JAA> That'd mean users can't just run whatever ircd they want in that multiuser system use case though. :-/
02:58:25 <JAA> I guess socket handoff would have to be implemented in the backend ircd as well though.
03:01:19 <zzo38> I think it could support whatever ircd they want if it is handled properly; there are a few considerations but I think they can be handled.
03:03:39 <JAA> If you don't care about accurate user hosts, I suppose you could just proxy and append the real IP to the gecos or similar. That'd still allow for IP-based bans on some ircds (ones that have a gecos-based extban). It'd be a bit ugly though.
03:03:42 <zzo38> (In some cases, it might be possible by modifying the software and that might not be too difficult, although modifying the system to support it is another way.)
03:05:37 <zzo38> Yes, if it is necessary then you could implement something like that, although if a ircd program is made to support this kind of proxying then it would already have some better way to do it, would be expected.
03:06:41 <JAA> Well yeah, my idea would be to avoid having to change the ircd at all.
03:07:19 <JAA> I suspect you can't easily fake a network connection's origin, but that might also be an option.
03:08:29 <zzo38> Some operating systems might allow it in some cases (I don't know if Linux does, or if anyone made up a kernel module or other way to do it if it normally doesn't)
03:08:30 <JAA> In this setup, only the client and the proxy would need to support the virtual hosting. With TLS, you could even narrow that to just the proxy.
03:09:33 <zzo38> Like I mentioned TLS already has virtual hosting, so it is likely that a client that supports TLS also does.
03:10:18 <JAA> Yeah right, you could just stick any reverse proxy in front of that.
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03:33:19 <ais523> Sgeo: I think several languages use a global variable for returning from functions, e.g. the normal convention is for x86-64 asm to return values by storing them in %rax, and INTERCAL programs normally return values by storing them in the lowest-numbered variable of the correct type that wasn't used as an argument
03:33:53 <ais523> unlike other uses of global variables for parameter-passing, this one doesn't have any clashes or scoping problems, because the function you return to can immediately move the return value to a more permanent location
03:34:33 <ais523> (whereas if you pass arguments in global variables, if a function makes a function call, it loses access to its own arguments unless it spills them)
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04:02:01 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158457&oldid=157816 * Timwi * (+245) Rejiggle the functions to match the new structure of the library
04:27:59 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158458&oldid=158457 * Timwi * (-1) fix mistake in description of
04:53:52 <esolangs> [[MythLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158459 * PrySigneToFry * (+2726) Created page with "MythLang is an Esolang designed by [[User:PrySigneToFry]]. As name shown, this language will be powerful as the myth recounts. = Overview = MythLang is Turing-Complete, and it is "interpreted" language. = Basic syntax = == Variable and Data types == This langu
04:54:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158460&oldid=158442 * PrySigneToFry * (+15)
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04:57:56 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158461&oldid=156872 * PrySigneToFry * (+255)
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05:52:47 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158462&oldid=158458 * Timwi * (+650) Small clarification in the regex example
06:03:02 <zzo38> Now I wrote a program to parse a X.509 certificate. So far it only checks if the certificate expired and can extract the public key, but in future it might be made to do other stuff too.
06:03:27 <zzo38> It was not very difficult to do the things I implemented so far.
06:18:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:*lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158463 * JJRubes * (+5565) linked list example program
06:33:00 <esolangs> [[Ampell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158464&oldid=158423 * Elphan * (+0) /* Simple fork bomb */
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07:13:29 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158465&oldid=155937 * PrySigneToFry * (+48)
07:58:32 <Sgeo> Looking at 2D languages for ... reasons. Does Befunge not have an input command?
08:00:43 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/test]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158466 * Pifrited * (+61) Teststst
08:01:33 <FireFly> it has two IIRC, one that reads a char from stdin and one that reads a number
08:01:57 <FireFly> ~ and & it seems, respectively
08:03:00 <Sgeo> ..that's what I get for searching for "input" instead of actually reading the page
08:04:52 <Sgeo> Can I use "Befunge" in a language name if it has significant incompatibilities? Maybe I should be making a new language from scratch
08:07:21 <Sgeo> First thought: ' as an input version of ": Beep the screen and have the user type text after a space after the first ' up to the ' to the right
08:08:18 <Sgeo> Hmm, maybe that's not... that interesting except for how input is fixed length
08:09:34 <Sgeo> Ooh, a command that turns N characters after it into an input field that just... becomes part of the program. Could be used to keep " as a normal string generator and yet turn it into an input command
08:11:29 <ais523> input directly into the playfield would mix well with g and p
08:11:52 <ais523> but, I think it should push existing characters away along the ray, rather than overwriting them
08:11:56 <FireFly> command that reads input directly into the program space sounds entertainingly cursed
08:12:01 <ais523> otherwise it is hard to determine how long the input was
08:12:34 <ais523> I guess you could just push the length of the input onto the stack
08:13:02 <FireFly> command that when executed overwrites input in the direction of program execution (starting with the command itself) and then continues execution the cell after input finishes
08:13:16 <FireFly> hm actually probably not, that's terrible
08:13:20 <ais523> note that input that goes directly into the playfield doesn't mix well with Befunge-98's skipping of multiple spaces
08:13:25 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158467 * Pifrited * (+148) Created page with "TopNote is an esolang. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |+ Caption text |- ! Command !! Meaning |- | Example || Example |- | Example || Example |}"
08:13:27 <FireFly> yeah I guess you could push the length
08:13:53 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Shove may be interesting, its only way to read data from its own stack pops the stack directly into the playfield
08:13:58 <ais523> you might get inspiration from there, too
08:14:03 <Sgeo> I kind of have to know the length before I ask for input anyway, although the input could have spaces (or blanks) at the end?
08:14:20 <Sgeo> Mostly I'm thinking of how to use the 3270 terminal in an interesting way
08:14:47 <ais523> well if it pushes existing commands away, rather than overwriting them, you don't need to know the input length in advance
08:21:50 <Sgeo> Command that sets part of the playfield writable-when-input-is-next-requested, and command that pauses and waits for user to modify playfield?
08:29:43 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158468&oldid=158467 * Pifrited * (+290) /* Commands */
08:31:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skyfirekv44FB * New user account
08:33:14 <Sgeo> Half wondering if I should force everything to be EBCDIC-1047 instead of ASCII. Doesn't really change the character that much or make implementation much easier or harder, but it's amusing
08:33:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skyfirekv44 * New user account
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10:11:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cotikthetik * New user account
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10:16:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158469 * Cycwin * (+41) Created page with "==About whatlang only has symbols is tc=="
10:17:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158470&oldid=158469 * Cycwin * (+77) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
10:27:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158471&oldid=158454 * Cotikthetik * (+101) /* Introductions */
10:28:09 <esolangs> [[Braincow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158472 * Cotikthetik * (+208) Created page with "Braincow is esolang created by cotikthetik this is modification of brainfuck == Syntax == Big is + in brainf Small is - Chicken is > Cow is < Dog is . Cat is , Start is [ End is ] == Examples == Placeholder"
10:30:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Braincow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158473 * Cotikthetik * (+25) Created page with "This is my first language"
10:31:23 <esolangs> [[Braincow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158474&oldid=158472 * Cotikthetik * (+7)
10:38:03 <esolangs> [[Braincow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158475&oldid=158474 * Cotikthetik * (+9)
10:38:48 <esolangs> [[Braincow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158476&oldid=158475 * Cotikthetik * (+11)
11:06:35 <APic> Celebrate Towel-Day!
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11:22:54 <esolangs> [[User:Cotikthetik]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158477 * Cotikthetik * (+8) Created page with "Text. 6"
11:26:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158478&oldid=158470 * Cycwin * (+126) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
11:28:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158479&oldid=158478 * Cycwin * (+52) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
11:29:50 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158480&oldid=158479 * Cycwin * (+52) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
11:32:06 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158481&oldid=158480 * Cycwin * (+102) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
11:34:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158482&oldid=158481 * Cycwin * (+99) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
11:37:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158483&oldid=158482 * Cycwin * (+82) /* About whatlang only has symbols is tc */
11:52:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:YufangTSTSU]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158484 * PrySigneToFry * (+962) Created page with "Your name is , but why I got when I put <span style='font-family:XEGOEALL'>7oH_1fT</span> in Shidinn transcriber? --[[User:PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:blue;background:yellow;"></span>]]User talk:PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:aqua;backgroun
12:02:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:YufangTSTSU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158485&oldid=158484 * PrySigneToFry * (+2)
12:22:23 <esolangs> [[Braincow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158486&oldid=158476 * Cotikthetik * (+94)
12:24:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158487&oldid=158409 * PrySigneToFry * (-1)
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13:41:03 <esolangs> [[ASMM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158488&oldid=153997 * Chillaxe * (-23)
13:55:25 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158489&oldid=158468 * Pifrited * (+158)
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16:00:56 <esolangs> [[User:DockedChutoy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158490&oldid=104264 * DockedChutoy * (+170)
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19:58:35 <zzo38> Do you have EBCDIC fonts?
20:00:03 <int-e> what would that look like, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Used_Punchcard_(5151286161).jpg with just the holes? :P
20:00:24 <int-e> (EBCDIC is an encoding; fonts are for glyphs)
20:03:14 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blue-punch-card-front-horiz.png -- it's funny to me how chaotic the non-alphanumeric part looks
20:09:50 <zzo38> I mean a font with EBCDIC character set which is indexed by the EBCDIC. (In most or all variants of EBCDIC they could probably be based on other character sets with reordering but it should be taken into consideration in case there are any exceptions to this, which you should not be so sure that it isn't.)
20:11:33 <int-e> sure but the obvious answer is "no" and where's the fun in that
20:11:59 <int-e> because the way people would actually do that is decode ebcdic as unicode and use an unicode indexed font
20:13:08 <int-e> Now I'm wondering how much use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC gets.
20:15:12 <zzo38> It would also be possible to use a multiple indexing font format, although the consideration that I had mentioned above may still be necessary for some variants of EBCDIC, the multiple indexing would at least make it possible to do so without needing multiple fonts. (In the case of UTF-EBCDIC, it is an encoding of Unicode, so in that case you would just use a Unicode font, but that is not the only kind of EBCDIC.)
20:17:37 <zzo38> (Furthermore, when using Unicode, there are more considerations than just the glyphs. Other than UTF-EBCDIC and other encodings of Unicode, it would be better to use other character sets since the handling of such things as this will be less complicated than Unicode.)
20:19:03 <zzo38> (Nevertheless, the use of Unicode is possible as a last resort in many cases (although some characters still might not be displayable), but too often Unicode is made the first resort instead, and I think that it shouldn't be.)
20:21:07 <zzo38> (EBCDIC also has different control characters, but that is independent from the fonts, anyways.)
20:55:42 <esolangs> [[!!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158491&oldid=140079 * Tommyaweosme * (+54) I HAVE FIXED THIS WIKI PAGE
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21:17:28 <Sgeo> https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/f90552fd86e72f59f990c0271d95419e
21:17:52 <Sgeo> MUSIC/SP has conversions between its EBCDIC and what it claims is ASCII, which as far as I can tell is actually ISO-8859-1
21:19:52 <zzo38> Did you publish the output of the program too?
21:20:10 <zzo38> (in case you want to use it outside of MUSIC/SP)
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22:06:34 <Sgeo> zzo38, just added the resulting file. But including the character itself was a bad idea
22:07:02 <Sgeo> Couldn't even copy/paste from my editor because of the NUL (I assume), not sure ... how Github interpreted me dragging the file onto the page
22:11:13 <Sgeo> Hmm. Someone on YouTube got access to a full MUSIC/SP system, not just the publicly available demo. I'm jealous
22:13:40 <Sgeo> Converted to UTF-8 (from ISO-8859-1) in my text editor and reuploaded
22:37:16 <zzo38> Well, the file will be usable now anyways, I suppose.
23:29:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:YufangTSTSU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158492&oldid=158485 * I am islptng * (+842)
23:40:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158493&oldid=158190 * I am islptng * (+705) /* ConwayLife Forums is Down!! */
00:44:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158494&oldid=158493 * I am islptng * (+26967) /* help */
00:49:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:YufangTSTSU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158495&oldid=158492 * I am islptng * (+92)
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06:17:04 <esolangs> [[!!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158496&oldid=158491 * PkmnQ * (+0)
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11:29:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:Skyfirekv44]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158497 * PrySigneToFry * (+958) Created page with "[[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]<nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:blue;background:yellow;"></span>]]User talk:PrySigneToFry|<span style="color:aqua;background:red;">..."
11:33:30 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck 2.0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158498&oldid=156247 * PrySigneToFry * (+50)
11:35:25 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158499&oldid=158002 * PrySigneToFry * (+152)
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12:55:15 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158500&oldid=158225 * Zhil * (+643) DBGE
13:02:16 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158501&oldid=158500 * Zhil * (+412) SPUB
13:04:09 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158502&oldid=158501 * Zhil * (+129)
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13:06:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158503&oldid=157031 * Ais523 * (+331) maybe port some results from Underload?
13:08:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158504&oldid=158483 * Cycwin * (+89) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:10:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158505&oldid=158504 * Cycwin * (+50) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:12:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158506&oldid=158505 * Cycwin * (+49) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:13:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158507&oldid=158506 * Cycwin * (+47) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:16:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158508&oldid=158507 * Cycwin * (+6) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:17:03 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158509&oldid=158502 * Zhil * (+1048) Continuation-composing Universal Base
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13:20:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158510&oldid=158508 * Cycwin * (+222) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:25:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158511&oldid=158510 * Cycwin * (+85) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
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13:31:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158512&oldid=158511 * Cycwin * (+24)
13:32:13 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158513&oldid=158509 * Zhil * (+76) Added connection to Underload
13:33:36 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158514&oldid=158513 * Zhil * (+125)
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13:55:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158515&oldid=158512 * Cycwin * (+45) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:59:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158516&oldid=158515 * Cycwin * (+46) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
14:01:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158517&oldid=158516 * Cycwin * (+37) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
14:03:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158518&oldid=158517 * Cycwin * (+55) /* whatlang with six kinds of symbols is tc too! */
14:04:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158519&oldid=158518 * Cycwin * (-38) /* whatlang with six kinds of symbols is tc too! */
14:14:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:YufangTSTSU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158520&oldid=158495 * Cycwin * (+52)
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14:23:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158521&oldid=158318 * Cycwin * (+124) /* Any interests on joining our Esolang Tencent QQ group? */
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16:00:53 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158522&oldid=158514 * Zhil * (-4) Shorter swap
16:13:27 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158523&oldid=149316 * Zhil * (+24) Added mlatu
16:15:42 <esolangs> [[Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158524&oldid=158523 * Zhil * (+42)
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18:29:53 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158525&oldid=157000 * Corbin * (+1265) /* Tree algebras */ Show how to make functors. The example code is directly from the reference implementation and is shared freely.
18:38:35 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158526&oldid=158525 * Corbin * (+231) /* Examples */ Provide a better BF compiler.
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19:05:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158527&oldid=158109 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+213) /* Move the ruletable */ new section
19:08:45 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158528&oldid=158201 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) ipsltng obscured Hotcrystal0's talk page.
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20:12:13 <esolangs> [[Homespring]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158529&oldid=118414 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+12) /* External resources */
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21:29:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158530&oldid=158494 * Hotcrystal0 * (-26967)
21:30:06 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/huge ruletable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158531 * Hotcrystal0 * (+27039) Created page with "This is moved from [[User talk:Hotcrystal0|hotcrystal0s talk page]]. Also get [[life:Rule:CCCC]] updated to this: {{collapsible|The ruletable.|<pre><nowiki> @RULE CCCC Complex Compact Computing Core. This rule is a set of 58 tiles designed
21:30:18 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/huge ruletable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158532&oldid=158531 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
21:30:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158533&oldid=158530 * Hotcrystal0 * (+42)
21:36:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158534&oldid=158460 * Buckets * (+11)
21:37:18 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158535&oldid=158445 * Buckets * (+10)
21:37:54 <esolangs> [[Amit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158536 * Buckets * (+1282) Created page with "Amit is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | Any Natural Number || Pushes That Number on the Stack. |- | * || Multiplies the top two values on the stack. |- | + || Adds the top two v
21:38:54 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158537&oldid=158535 * Buckets * (+0) /* Total of Esolangs */
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23:33:46 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/huge ruletable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158538&oldid=158532 * I am islptng * (-27037) Blanked the page
23:34:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158539&oldid=158533 * I am islptng * (+673) /* help */
23:39:11 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158540&oldid=158446 * Buckets * (+0)
23:58:19 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158541&oldid=154144 * Buckets * (+3684)
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02:15:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cernam * New user account
02:21:35 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158542&oldid=158471 * Cernam * (+119)
02:23:04 <esolangs> [[User:Cernam]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158543 * Cernam * (+53) Created page with "Hello, I am Cernam! I'm the developer behind splang !"
02:33:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cernam * uploaded "[[File:Splang logo.png]]"
02:50:10 <esolangs> [[Splang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158545 * Cernam * (+6779) First release of splang
02:50:49 <esolangs> [[Splang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158546&oldid=158545 * Cernam * (-2) /* Writeup */ link change
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04:16:08 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158547&oldid=158528 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-4) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/158528|158528]] by [[Special:Contributions/TenBillionPlusOne|TenBillionPlusOne]] ([[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne|talk]])
04:29:28 <zzo38> Some things that say some formats are complicated or simple than others will fail to consider "ignorable complexity" (although what is ignorable can depend on the application).
04:41:10 <esolangs> [[ShiftEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158548&oldid=158030 * TheCatFromGithub * (-48) needs to be that way
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07:18:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158549&oldid=158521 * None1 * (+461) /* Any interests on joining our Esolang Tencent QQ group? */
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13:53:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Where is my esolang?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158550&oldid=151637 * Cycwin * (+103)
14:09:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Where is my esolang?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158551&oldid=158550 * PrySigneToFry * (+89)
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15:59:58 <esolangs> [[Category:Uncomputable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158552&oldid=156173 * PkmnQ * (-23) I don't think that category should be there
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16:08:27 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158553&oldid=157772 * Aadenboy * (+81) replacing the last metric with a much more interesting and calculable one
16:08:58 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Live stats]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158554&oldid=158553 * Aadenboy * (+0)
16:18:10 <esolangs> [[Homespring]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158555&oldid=158529 * Aadenboy * (+1) template
16:43:49 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158556&oldid=158448 * Hotcrystal0 * (+48)
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18:53:53 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158557&oldid=158365 * Hotcrystal0 * (+154) tidying up the links
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18:58:30 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158558&oldid=158526 * Corbin * (+2354) I implemented CHR(Zaddy) over the weekend, I guess. The syntax works, but the semantics are still a little buggy.
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19:12:19 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158559&oldid=158557 * Corbin * (+212) Use standard reference formatting, just a bit, to make this read more smoothly.
19:23:32 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158560&oldid=158559 * Corbin * (+93) Okay, do just one more reference. Again, I think this improves readability.
19:30:36 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158561&oldid=158558 * Corbin * (-10) /* Constraint Handling Rules */ Bluelink; we have a page on-wiki!
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20:43:59 <esolangs> [[StackBit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158562&oldid=120668 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+194) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the StackBit programming language on GitHub and supplemented the Implemented category tag.
20:45:03 <esolangs> [[StackBit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158563&oldid=158562 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+698) Introduced an examples section comprehending two incipial members.
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23:34:08 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158564&oldid=158560 * I am islptng * (+128) I ported APGsembly here. And it should appear on CGoL page.
23:37:22 <esolangs> [[APGsembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158565&oldid=158080 * I am islptng * (+101)
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23:45:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Where is my esolang?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158566&oldid=158551 * I am islptng * (+651)
00:50:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158567&oldid=158527 * I am islptng * (+1892) /* Help again! */ new section
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02:57:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158568&oldid=158567 * I am islptng * (-1240) /* Help again! */
03:43:36 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158569&oldid=155842 * I am islptng * (+1434) /* Combinator calculus */
03:57:14 <esolangs> [[Steve's Lava Chicken Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158570 * MihaiEso * (+3745) Created page with "'''Steve's Lava Chicken Language''' is a esolang created in 2025, by Mihai Popa. It's based on the Steve's Lava Chicken song that plays in the Minecraft Movie and various other things. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |+ Command List |- ! Comma
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04:00:06 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158571&oldid=157891 * MihaiEso * (+84) /* General languages */
04:03:41 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158572&oldid=152768 * MihaiEso * (+84)
04:06:28 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158573&oldid=158572 * MihaiEso * (+282) /* My targets */
04:08:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158574&oldid=155756 * I am islptng * (+972) /* Make it even scarier !!!! */
04:10:34 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158575&oldid=156146 * MihaiEso * (+32)
04:12:13 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158576&oldid=158561 * Corbin * (-21) /* Constraint Handling Rules */ Fix example programs; capitalization matters in Prolog-style syntax.
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04:20:18 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158577 * MihaiEso * (+706) Created page with "The [[Translated SLet/3/PrySigneToFry|idea]] of this s**t is given by PrySigneToFry. 1. Take the semiproduct. Mary thanked me with a smile. 2. Add salt, sugar, vinegar, light soy sauce, dark soy sauce, MSG, pepper, peppercorns, and 1 cup (236.6 ml)
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04:35:41 <Sgeo> MTS uses ? for wildcards in names, with 1 ? being like * and multiple being as many characters - 1
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05:10:19 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/islptng Again]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158578 * I am islptng * (+1607) Created page with "what the [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso|fuck]] 1. Take the shit. A beautiful smile. 2. 100mL10g20g50g100g500mL300g400mlPSTFISLPTNGTOMMYAWEOSMENONE1MIHAI_POPA3RACTANGLE..."
05:26:23 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/islptng Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158579&oldid=158578 * MihaiEso * (+38)
05:34:12 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158580 * MihaiEso * (+2071) Created page with "what the [[Translated SLet/3/islptng Again|fuck]] 1. Take the shit. It should also be in response to this set of was, rough tiles, mostly dense forests, 2. 100mL10g20g50g100g500mL300g400mlPSTFISLPTNGTOMMYAWEOSMENONE1MIHAI_POPA..."
05:34:37 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158581&oldid=158580 * MihaiEso * (+12)
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07:59:35 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158582&oldid=158577 * I am islptng * (+56)
07:59:46 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158583&oldid=158582 * I am islptng * (+6)
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08:59:05 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158584&oldid=158569 * I am islptng * (+157)
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13:06:02 <esolangs> [[FreakC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158585&oldid=80725 * FreakCdev * (-1163) Blanked the page
13:16:51 <esolangs> [[90deg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158586 * FreakCdev * (+2692) Create 90deg page
13:21:39 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158587&oldid=158534 * FreakCdev * (-1) Add 90deg and remove FreakC
13:31:01 <esolangs> [[User:FreakCdev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158588&oldid=129989 * FreakCdev * (+30)
13:43:47 <esolangs> [[Irma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158589&oldid=158107 * Neon * (+447)
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15:30:27 <esolangs> [[APGsembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158590&oldid=158565 * Hotcrystal0 * (+22)
15:37:38 <esolangs> [[Bot Engine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158591&oldid=73749 * Gapples2 * (+966) table formatting + tc
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18:01:03 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158592&oldid=156691 * Gapples2 * (+683) super qoob tc
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19:59:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:Gapples2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158593&oldid=156831 * Aadenboy * (+630) /* Smolder totalness */ new section
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22:19:17 <esolangs> [[``abi2 hB8 7Vi 7iY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158594&oldid=155928 * I am islptng * (+222)
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00:41:57 <esolangs> [[Steve's Lava Chicken Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158595&oldid=158570 * MihaiEso * (+42)
00:47:04 <esolangs> [[MATE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158596 * I am islptng * (+1275) Created page with "::''This is [[PAL]] version 2.0 .'' '''MATE''', which stands for "'''M'''ATE: '''A'''rray-processing '''T'''ree '''E'''valuator", will be made by islptng. {{WIP}} == Data types == * '''Number''': A rational. * '''Character''': Literally just a character. * '''List'
00:47:52 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158597&oldid=155491 * I am islptng * (-9) No longer a WIP because I give up.
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05:11:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:Where is my esolang?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158598&oldid=158566 * Cycwin * (+36)
05:48:40 <zzo38> I had mentioned before about capability-based systems, and whether or not testing equality of capabilities should be allowed (and what ones should be considered as equal).
05:49:38 <zzo38> However, for the way I had thought of network transparency, I think that it may be necessary to be able to test equality of capabilities (even if two different sources give it to you), since the network protocol will need to be able to assign a temporary identifier to these capabilities, and doing it without might make it inefficient.
05:50:23 <zzo38> However, with proxy capabilities, you can still always force a capability to be unequal, and if you have nothing else to compare it to, you still cannot verify it, and the inability to verify it in this way is, in my opinion, a helpful security feature.
05:51:09 <zzo38> In addition, for some things where "identification capabilities" would be helpful, this equality of capabilities also is useful.
05:51:33 <zzo38> (Although it may be possible to do this without, it might be too inefficient to do.)
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09:12:03 <esolangs> [[SBFC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158599 * L4.m2 * (+526) Created page with "SBFC(Shifted Brainfuck Compressed) is a compressed version of [[Shifted brainfuck]]. Three instructions result 343 possible combinations. If <code>+-</code>, <code>-+</code>, <code><></code>, <code>><</code>, <code>[]</code>, <code>][</code> and <code>..</code> are not allow
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11:25:57 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158600&oldid=158556 * PrySigneToFry * (+498)
11:30:17 <esolangs> [[Polydeuces]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158601 * PrySigneToFry * (+5766) Created page with "{{AKA|title=}} {{AKA|title=Brainfuck 2.1}} Polydeuces is a programming language designed by PSTF. It have only one dialect, Castor. = Inspiration of the name of this language and dialect = In Greek mythology, Polydeuces, along with his twin brother Castor, b
11:32:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158602&oldid=158587 * PrySigneToFry * (+17)
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11:48:22 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158603 * PrySigneToFry * (+7886) Created page with "What the [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso_Again|fck]]!!!!!! 1. Take the s***. <pre> It's time to share, to share i..."
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11:59:12 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158604&oldid=158581 * PrySigneToFry * (+51)
12:17:02 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158605&oldid=158603 * MihaiEso * (+39)
12:33:01 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158606 * MihaiEso * (+10357) Created page with "What the [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF_Again|fck]]!!!!!! 1. Take the ****. <pre class='rectwrap'> G Oude Oufu Wusi..."
12:36:58 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158607&oldid=158600 * Hotcrystal0 * (+479)
12:37:24 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158608&oldid=158607 * Hotcrystal0 * (+15)
12:37:56 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158609&oldid=158608 * Hotcrystal0 * (-8)
12:38:05 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158610&oldid=158609 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
12:38:19 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158611&oldid=158610 * Hotcrystal0 * (+10)
12:38:41 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158612&oldid=158611 * Hotcrystal0 * (-9)
12:38:53 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158613&oldid=158612 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
12:39:53 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158614&oldid=158613 * Hotcrystal0 * (-491)
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12:45:07 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158615&oldid=158614 * Hotcrystal0 * (+95)
12:46:34 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158616&oldid=158615 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7)
12:48:44 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158617&oldid=158616 * Hotcrystal0 * (+3)
12:52:49 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158618&oldid=158617 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
12:57:56 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158619&oldid=158618 * Hotcrystal0 * (+8) is different from because does not gain any powers from crossing the river.
12:58:29 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158620&oldid=158619 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
12:59:44 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158621&oldid=158620 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
13:00:56 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158622&oldid=158621 * Hotcrystal0 * (-5)
13:14:47 <esolangs> [[Talk:WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158623&oldid=158519 * Cycwin * (+8) /* About whatlang with only symbols is tc */
13:15:19 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158624&oldid=158547 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4)
13:15:33 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158625&oldid=157805 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-79)
13:15:48 <esolangs> [[Hakerh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158626&oldid=158625 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-90)
13:17:24 <esolangs> [[Transformation is complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158627&oldid=158441 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-125)
13:17:58 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158628&oldid=158624 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Users */
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13:24:27 <esolangs> [[Atemlanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158629&oldid=156756 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+640)
13:25:31 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158630&oldid=158628 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-13) /* Other stuff */
13:25:45 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158631&oldid=158630 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21) /* Concepts */
13:26:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158632&oldid=158549 * Cycwin * (+111) /* Any interests on joining our Esolang Tencent QQ group? */
13:28:18 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158633 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1844) Created page with "[[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+|Huh?]] 1. Take the shit. <pre> Het Oufu Asian Efuwule Drinking wine e, Het Oufu Asian Efuwule Drinking wine e, CE Het Oufu Asia's First Alphabet Practical Health e Wuanii Wuaiiteenig "Jumuo e - Wuani
13:31:07 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158634&oldid=158633 * Hotcrystal0 * (+184)
13:31:39 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158635&oldid=158606 * Hotcrystal0 * (+38)
13:31:49 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/MihaiEso Again+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158636&oldid=158635 * Hotcrystal0 * (-3)
13:31:59 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158637&oldid=158634 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
13:32:57 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158638&oldid=158637 * Hotcrystal0 * (+12)
13:34:47 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158639&oldid=158638 * Hotcrystal0 * (+152)
13:35:11 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158640&oldid=158639 * Hotcrystal0 * (+3)
13:36:48 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158641&oldid=158640 * Hotcrystal0 * (+83)
13:37:13 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158642&oldid=158641 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
13:38:26 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158643&oldid=158642 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14)
13:39:15 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158644&oldid=158643 * Hotcrystal0 * (-4)
13:42:36 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158645&oldid=158644 * Hotcrystal0 * (+193)
13:43:42 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158646&oldid=158645 * Hotcrystal0 * (+89)
13:44:48 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158647&oldid=158646 * Hotcrystal0 * (+108)
13:45:09 <esolangs> [[``abi2 hB8 7Vi 7iY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158648&oldid=158594 * PrySigneToFry * (+47)
13:45:30 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158649&oldid=158647 * Hotcrystal0 * (+23)
13:46:21 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158650&oldid=158649 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
13:47:35 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158651&oldid=158650 * Hotcrystal0 * (+4)
13:49:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158652&oldid=158227 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+162) /* 1000000001 */
13:50:51 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158653&oldid=158651 * Hotcrystal0 * (+218)
13:51:19 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158654&oldid=158653 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
13:54:11 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158655&oldid=158654 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14)
13:55:04 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158656&oldid=158655 * Hotcrystal0 * (+17)
14:10:58 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158657&oldid=158656 * Hotcrystal0 * (+347)
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14:39:04 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158658&oldid=158622 * PrySigneToFry * (+101)
14:54:35 <esolangs> [[Atemlanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158659&oldid=158629 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-26) /* New introduction */
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15:18:24 <esolangs> [[Atemlanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158660&oldid=158659 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-127) /* New introduction */
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15:39:00 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158661&oldid=132572 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-3)
15:41:16 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158662&oldid=139071 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-3)
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16:09:22 <esolangs> [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158663&oldid=131571 * BakersDozenBagels * (+587) Update language spec with new features used by PRINGLES
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16:26:38 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158664&oldid=158657 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
16:26:56 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158665&oldid=158664 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/158664|158664]] by [[Special:Contributions/Hotcrystal0|Hotcrystal0]] ([[User talk:Hotcrystal0|talk]])
16:31:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * NomaniInt64 * New user account
16:36:35 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158666&oldid=158542 * NomaniInt64 * (+233) /* Introductions */
16:38:40 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158667&oldid=158658 * Hotcrystal0 * (+39)
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17:08:19 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158668&oldid=158665 * Hotcrystal0 * (+3)
17:12:50 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158669&oldid=158576 * Corbin * (+209) /* Constraint Handling Rules */ Add reference. Also, turns out max/3 is best done as a query with gte/2 as a "builtin" Prolog rule.
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17:53:43 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158671&oldid=158670 * Hotcrystal0 * (-354)
17:54:16 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158672&oldid=158671 * Hotcrystal0 * (+605)
17:55:28 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158673&oldid=158672 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
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19:28:31 <esolangs> [[ArtState]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158674&oldid=119841 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-3)
19:30:14 <esolangs> [[Bfos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158675&oldid=113885 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+19) Is it a concept or idea?
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19:59:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:SmolderNodes101.png]]": The connection graph of [[Smolder]] cells that can be reached from 101.
19:59:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:SmolderNodes202.png]]": The connection graph of [[Smolder]] cells that can be reached from 202.
20:01:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Smolder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158678&oldid=158217 * Aadenboy * (+468) really interesting revelation
20:03:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Aadenboy * uploaded a new version of "[[File:SmolderNodes101.png]]": more compact labels
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20:09:01 <esolangs> [[VTS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158680 * JORE * (+5372) Created page with "== VTS Programming Language == '''VTS''' is a modification of python. It also makes code harder to read. {| class="wikitable" |+ Command Set |- ! VTS !! Python !! Description |- | <code>n >> x</code> || <code>x=n</code> || Assignment |- | <code>n *> x</code> || <code>x=x*n</c
20:18:39 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158681&oldid=158379 * Tommyaweosme * (+9)
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20:29:22 <Raoof> hi everybody. I think I found something. first a quick question: is the following function primitive recursive ?
20:29:26 <Raoof> pri3 = (f,n,a,b,c) => n?pri3(f,n-1n,a,b,f(a,b,c)):c
20:31:55 <int-e> is n-1n a typo for n-1? anyway, no, even assuming that n,a,b,c are natural numbers, because f is an argument that we know nothing about.
20:33:21 <Raoof> int-e 1n means a BigInt in javascript. assume that f is primitive recursive
20:34:15 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158682&oldid=158681 * Tommyaweosme * (+6) /* ye olde sandbox (ald sand-plega-dm) */
20:36:06 <int-e> Raoof: Then yes, at the face of it at least. Using JS probably opens up some backdoors.
20:37:02 <b_jonas> so this is like n iterations of the function (c -> f(a,b,c)) nested started from c?
20:37:47 <Raoof> b_jonas yes n, a, b,c are natural numbers. yes
20:41:01 <HackEso> 558) <oerjan> <Patashu> But wait what if I'm using a quantum computer <-- there is "quantum entropy". it's the same except no one understands it.
20:42:27 <Raoof> int-e if pri3 is primitive recursive then hyperoperation function is also primitive recursive
20:45:19 <int-e> pri3 itself is *not* primitive recursve
20:45:37 <int-e> pri3(f) is, if f is
20:46:20 <int-e> (for pri3(f) to make sense, assume you had written pri3 = (f) => (n,a,b,c) => ... instead)
20:50:03 <Raoof> int-e is pri3 total ?
20:50:19 <int-e> with the restriction on f? yes
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20:50:47 <int-e> but f isn't a natural number
20:52:08 <APic> int-e: Yes, 15
20:52:42 <int-e> APic: really, all you ever say is hi and cu but *this* is what you intend to engage with :-P
20:53:15 <int-e> minor brain malfunction here
20:54:09 <Raoof> int-e we need a look up table for f to be a natural number
20:55:13 <b_jonas> yeah, int-e is right, running an arbitrary primitive recursive function that you get form input is more powerful than what a primitive recursive function can do
21:04:17 <ais523> I guess most computational classes aren't able to self-interpret – TC is unusual in that respect
21:04:47 <ais523> hmm, can LBAs self-interpret? (assuming that the input to the interpreter is an input + program)
21:05:01 <ais523> ah, no, because the LBA being interpreted might need a constant factor higher than the interpreter has
21:05:37 <ais523> I think any specific factor of LBA might be able to, though?
21:06:04 <Raoof> b_jonas let me show you what I discovered. my guess is that the following four functions are a basis for total computable functions are I use subset of javascript to implement my language
21:06:16 <int-e> yeah you get a weird fixed-parameter class of incomplete self-interpreters
21:06:20 <Raoof> inc = (a) => (a||0n)+1n
21:06:21 <Raoof> dec = (a) => a>0n?(a||0n)-1n:0n
21:06:21 <Raoof> pri = (f,n,...args) => n?pri(f,n-1n,...args.slice(0,args.length-1),f(...args)):args[args.length-1]
21:06:22 <int-e> you can do that for primitive recursion too
21:14:30 <b_jonas> oh no, it's that discussion from way back
21:15:25 <Raoof> b_jonas this time is different. I think I discovered something cool this time :)
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21:19:13 <int-e> You're using JS for this; I imagine it's very easy to accidentally compose these primitives in a way that results in a function that's not primitive recursive because JS has full recursion built in.
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21:23:41 <Raoof> sorry I have some issues with my internet connection. my point is you can compose 4 total functions and get all other total computable functions. isn't that cool ?
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21:29:12 <b_jonas> Raoof: int-e already pointed out the problem. you have a function pri that calls a function that it gets as argument. if you can pass any function into it then you can easily build a y-combinator construction and get an infine loop, something like function y(a,b,c) { return a(b); }; pri(y,1,y,0,0)
21:31:30 <b_jonas> so there's just no guarantee that pri is total
21:32:31 <int-e> Right, abusing the supposedly natural number arguments (n and all of ...args) to pass in functions will do the trick too.
21:33:00 <b_jonas> the other problem is of course that you still aren't giving us a specific definition of what you're allowed to compose how
21:33:21 <b_jonas> and I'm tired trying to deal with a moving goalpost when you do that
21:36:55 <Raoof> sorry, I thought it is simple enough to be easy to fill the blanks. let me give you a list of functions that I defined using these 4 functions maybe that helps if not I will come up with a blog post or something in the future.
21:37:19 <Raoof> zero = (a) => dec(one(a))
21:37:20 <Raoof> add = (a,b) => pri(inc,a,b)
21:37:20 <Raoof> mul = (a,b) => pri(add,a,b,zero(a))
21:37:21 <Raoof> pow = (a,b) => pri(mul,b,a,one(a))
21:37:21 <Raoof> tsb = (a,b) => pri(dec,b,a)
21:37:35 <Raoof> not = (a) => pow(zero(a),mul(a,a))
21:37:35 <Raoof> two = (a) => inc(one(a))
21:37:36 <Raoof> three = (a) => inc(two(a))
21:37:36 <Raoof> isZero = (a) => not(a)
21:37:37 <Raoof> isNonZero = (a) => isZero(isZero(a))
21:37:37 <Raoof> and = (a,b) => isZero(add(isZero(a),isZero(b)))
21:37:38 <Raoof> or = (a,b) => isZero(mul(a,b))
21:37:38 <Raoof> eq = (a,b) => isZero(add(tsb(a,b),tsb(b,a)))
21:37:39 <Raoof> notEq = (a,b) => not(eq(a,b))
21:37:39 <Raoof> If = (a,b,c) => add(mul(isNonZero(a),b),mul(isZero(a),c))
21:37:40 <Raoof> lte = (a,b) => isZero(tsb(a,b))
21:37:40 <Raoof> lt = (a,b) => If(eq(a,b),zero(a),lte(a,b))
21:37:41 <Raoof> gt = (a,b) => not(lte(a,b))
21:37:41 <Raoof> gte = (a,b) => not(lt(a,b))
21:37:42 <Raoof> min = (a,b) => If(lt(a,b),a,b)
21:37:42 <Raoof> max = (a,b) => If(lt(a,b),b,a)
21:38:11 <Raoof> (eq(n,zero(a)))?inc(b):
21:38:11 <Raoof> (and(eq(n,one(a)),eq(b,zero(a))))?a:
21:38:12 <Raoof> (and(eq(n,two(a)),eq(b,zero(a))))?zero(a):
21:38:12 <Raoof> (and(gt(n,two(a)),eq(b,zero(a))))?one(a):
21:38:13 <Raoof> pri(hyp,one(a),dec(n),a,pri(hyp,one(a),n,a,dec(b)))
21:38:13 <Raoof> ack = (m,n) => m?tsb(hyp(m,two(n),add(n,three(n))),three(n)):inc(n)
21:38:32 <int-e> yeah, hyp uses full recursion; you lose
21:39:36 <int-e> in the pri(f) construction, f must be a previously defined primitive recursive function.
21:39:58 <int-e> this "previously defined" part is usually left out because this is how inductive definitions always work
21:41:42 <Raoof> int-e yes f must be previosuly defined. I don't get what you mean by "you lose", can you write a function that loops ? (I know I haven't clearly specified the grammar of this language )
21:42:21 <int-e> Raoof: `hyp` uses pri(hyp,...) inside its own definition. That's not allowed.
21:42:54 <int-e> it has not been previously defined
21:43:01 <int-e> you're defining it right there
21:43:28 <Raoof> int-e it is a self-referential definition
21:43:34 <int-e> which is not allowed
21:43:43 <int-e> that would be arbitrary recursion
21:44:08 <Raoof> it's not an arbitrary recursion
21:44:36 <int-e> well the thing that matters is that it's not primitive recursion
21:45:50 <Raoof> I don't get why that matters. maybe ais523 can help us here ?
21:45:57 <int-e> The rules are like this; when defining hyp, you can only use functions defined up to the point when you define hyp. That is, zero, add, mul, etc, up to max. But not hyp itself.
21:46:17 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, but you can get a loop even without a function directly referring to itself, I mentioned y = (a,b,c) => a(b); pri(y,1,y,0,0); above.
21:46:19 <int-e> This really is not a difficult rule, and you're violating it.
21:47:03 <int-e> b_jonas: because you're smart and have found another loophole (passing a function where only natural numbers are allowed)
21:47:47 <b_jonas> int-e: what, where does it say that only natural numbers are allowed?
21:48:03 <ais523> I guess one way to think about it is that, if you're trying to implement primitive recursion in particular, you have to obey the rules of primitive recursion – and although it's totally fine to write a programming system which doesn't follow those rules, you end up with a different computational class
21:48:20 <int-e> b_jonas: I mentioned it when you posted that `y` example the first time.
21:48:41 <int-e> b_jonas: The *reference* I'm using isn't this discussion; it's the standard defintion of primitive recursion.
21:49:29 <int-e> Because it's clear from the outset that if Raoof is obtaining arbitrary recursive functions, what they're doing must differ from the standard definition somewhere.
21:50:28 <Raoof> ais523 what is the computational class of the compositions of these 4 functions ?
21:50:56 <b_jonas> Raoof: I still think you haven't told us how you're allowed to compose these
21:51:03 <b_jonas> like what expressions you're allowing
21:51:14 <ais523> Raoof: the question isn't well-defined, especially as the functions take more than one argument
21:51:40 <b_jonas> functions with multiple arguments? that's your excuse? hehehe
21:52:12 <ais523> b_jonas: the composition of f and g is function(x) { return f(g(x)); }
21:52:24 <ais523> but that definition doesn't obviously generalise to multiple arguments
21:52:30 <ais523> (unless you also have multiple return values)
21:52:59 <ais523> although I don't think Raoof meant composition in the mathematical sense, it's still an undefined problem without knowing what sense it was meant in
21:53:11 <b_jonas> ok, so you're also asking what expressions Raoul wants to allow.
21:53:37 <ais523> well, apart from the typoed nickname
21:54:28 <int-e> I have a simpler goal; I'm just chasing the "whatever this is, it's not primitive recursion" point.
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21:56:16 <ais523> int-e: so I think the problem here is that if person A believes "X can't do Y" and person B believes they have disproved it with "Z is an argument that X can do Y", that although person A can state "because X can't do Y, Z must be wrong" this argument will not be convincing to person B, even if it's correct
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21:57:19 <int-e> ais523: Well I did pinpoint the place where Raoof's construction deviated from primitive recursion.
21:58:07 <int-e> I tried to explain... not sure whether I managed because there is no good reason other than that the definition doesn't work that way.
22:04:24 <ais523> primitive recursion is much easier to understand if you view it as iteration, IMO
22:05:23 <int-e> Are we doing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlooP_and_FlooP now?
22:05:34 <b_jonas> ais523: do you mean for loop iterations with mutable variables that you can write repeatedly in a loop, as in the (0) language?
22:05:36 <int-e> (what a horrible syntax, I mean SYNTAX)
22:05:59 <ais523> b_jonas: I was thinking along the lines of BLooP
22:05:59 <b_jonas> int-e: is (0)'s syntax saner?
22:06:11 <int-e> b_jonas: do I dare to look?
22:06:31 <b_jonas> ok, it's probably not a good question
22:06:39 <b_jonas> I don't think anyone cares about (0)'s concrete syntax
22:07:04 <Raoof> ais523 these 3+1 functions are analogous to instruction for a Register machine
22:08:21 <b_jonas> and there are parts of the syntax that I'm not even sure how they work but it doesn't really matter
22:09:01 <ais523> b_jonas: that sounds like a good property for an esolang to have
22:09:36 <ais523> I feel like INTERCAL aims to evoke it
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22:10:02 <b_jonas> ais523: as far as I understand Bloop also has mutable variables; the main difference is that (0) has user-defined functions and local variables for them, which matters because of how (1) is defined as a modification of (0)
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22:10:55 <ais523> (INTERCAL-72 intentionally doesn't have operator precedence – C-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL both have something that exists in that space that triggers if you write an expression with insufficient spark/ears, but is hard to understand and doesn't behave like traditional operator precedence)
22:11:26 <ais523> primitive recursive languages based on iteration can't allow you to modify the loop counter (unless doing so doesn't change or reduces the number of loop iterations)
22:11:26 <b_jonas> ais523: kind of, but INTERCAL also comes with some esotericness in its concrete syntax, especially in how a comment ends with DO or PLEASE anywhere in it
22:12:10 <ais523> INTERCAL doesn't have comments, it just has a) syntax errors that don't happen until runtime and b) a range of ways to prevent a statement executing even if it's in the path of execution
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22:12:32 <ais523> but the way statements are delimited is very esoteric and not fully understodo
22:13:03 <ais523> the usual rule is "they start with DO or PLEASE" but there are exceptions which I don't fully understand and probably aren't consistent between compilers
22:13:31 <ais523> in particular the command READ OUT can be spelled without whitespace but despite READOUT having "DO" in the middle it doesn't usually start a new statement
22:14:08 <ais523> I think C-INTERCAL doesn't lex DO inside READOUT in much the same way that C doesn't lex > inside >>
22:15:00 <int-e> hah, imagine READONTUT
22:15:07 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, the post that defines (0) covers that, the loop counter variable is essentially just a copy of the hidden loop counter that's incremented in every iteration, so you can modify it but that won't make the loop run more times
22:15:11 <ais523> int-e: DON'T has an apostrophe in
22:15:26 <ais523> (which is comparable to writing a keyword in C that contains a parenthesis)
22:16:02 <int-e> ais523: I forgot how INTERCAL does this.
22:16:23 <int-e> I also kind of wanted to spell it as READONUT
22:16:27 <ais523> PLEASEN'T is also acceptable as a synonym I think (although INTERCAL compilers have generally collectively agreed to never use it)
22:17:02 <ais523> err, INTERCAL programmers, not compilers
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22:19:43 <ais523> at least one person has interpreted INTERCAL's spec as whitespace being completely irrelevant, so you can put it even inside keywords, literals, etc.
22:20:54 <b_jonas> IIRC two things that the writeup about (0) doesn't define is the order of evaluation when there are multiple function calls that don't depend on each other's result, and if your implementation makes the order variable you could sneak in additional power there; and what happens if you try to break a loop in a lower stack frame
22:21:21 <ais523> INTERCAL-72 is known to allow '. to be written as ! (i.e. superimposing the two adjacent characters) which is a form of whitespace change, I guess
22:21:29 <b_jonas> ais523: I also interpreted INTERCAL as whitespace being irrelevant so you can even put space inside keywords
22:21:51 <HackEso> [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+1F430 RABBIT FACE]
22:22:33 <ais523> the original manual mentioned superimposing " and . into a rabbit face, but there was no way to encode it until Unicode added one
22:24:49 <ais523> (also noteworthy: BMI2 adding hardware support for INTERCAL's select operator to x86 and x86-64; C-INTERCAL, of course, detects this in the configure script rather than using cpuid at runtime like you're supposed to)
22:45:56 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158683&oldid=158602 * Buckets * (+14)
22:48:03 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158684&oldid=158537 * Buckets * (+99)
22:48:15 <esolangs> [[Imitate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158685 * Buckets * (+3338) Created page with "Imitate is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2019, 2021 and 2022, All very Different from each other, Sharing the Same Name. == Imitate (2019) == On December 29th, 2019, [[User:Buckets]] Created the First Instance of Imitate, for the Purp
22:48:47 <esolangs> [[Imitate]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158686&oldid=158685 * Buckets * (+36)
22:50:12 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158687&oldid=158684 * Buckets * (+30)
23:00:29 <zzo38> That isn't the rabbit of INTERCAL though; it is the rabbit face emoji, which is difference
23:02:40 <zzo38> There is a way to encode the INTERCAL one though, but not in Unicode. It can be encoded in ASCII by using a backspace in between, or if another character set is made up, which can support it better.
23:03:28 <zzo38> Also, I think the use of DO that will end comment might be, that a program Knuth wrote mentions a 5-bit teleprinter code, which I think means Baudot code but they did not call it that because of the use of DO in INTERCAL.
23:05:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think these are supposed to be on 12-column punch cards, and you overlay two characters by punching them into the same column
23:06:45 <b_jonas> which means you may need to read it with a card reader that can encode those specific overlayed characters to EBCDIC in a way that doesn't conflict with other characters used in INTERCAL
23:08:43 <zzo38> Then it can be encoded using punch card codes, is another way (and, would probably be the "proper" way, if it was designed for such a thing). If a way to use a card reader to encode them in EBCDIC in a way that does not conflict with the other characters, that will help with using with computers with 8-bit bytes like most computers do now.
23:19:07 <zzo38> Although, I think CLC-INTERCAL already has its own variant of EBCDIC anyways (which uses ASCII control codes rather than EBCDIC control codes)
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23:24:21 <b_jonas> how do control codes come up? they shouldn't occur in an intercal program
23:25:20 <zzo38> Carriage return and line feed can occur, I think
23:27:44 <ais523> in the original INTERCAL-72 carriage return wasn't possible, space was represented by literally changing which columns you punched out, and "newline" was a change from one punch card to then ext
23:29:35 <zzo38> Yes, for the INTERCAL-72 character set you would be correct, but CLC-INTERCAL character set has carriage return and line feed control codes.
23:36:54 <b_jonas> yeah, the cards are fixed 80 character length, so you read them to a fixed width record format file, there's no line feeds or carraige returns,
23:40:00 <b_jonas> space exists, but I don't think it counts as a control character.
00:35:43 <zzo38> (Something unrelated to the above) There is a Ansilove program to convert various character-based graphics formats (ANSI art, XBIN, etc) into PNG, but I had made a different program which can convert these formats between each other (it can also render them as farbfeld).
00:50:32 <zzo38> So far I have several formats, but are there some other formats that you think I might have missed?
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01:03:43 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158688&oldid=149165 * RobinsAviary * (+771) /* Rust */
02:10:59 <ais523> zzo38: VT100-style terminal codes, perhaps?
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02:12:37 <zzo38> I did implement some of the VT100-style terminal codes (that is what the "ANSI art" format is, although some of the escape codes are those used in DOS, and a few other things such as "doorway mode").
02:33:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158689 * I am islptng * (+715) Created page with "Huh? I mentioned that you added something strange, including me, and all ConwayLife moderators?? --~~~~"
02:36:24 <esolangs> [[Where is my esolang?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158690&oldid=145102 * I am islptng * (-58)
02:39:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158691&oldid=158439 * I am islptng * (+732) /* Why inactive on ConwayLife? */ new section
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04:14:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * E342212 * New user account
04:16:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158692&oldid=158666 * E342212 * (+108)
04:17:14 <esolangs> [[User:E42212]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158693 * E342212 * (+3) Created page with "Yee"
04:19:07 <esolangs> [[User:E342212]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158694 * E342212 * (+83) Created page with "Yee. (I don't know what else to say lol) Also here's my esolang.[[Obscura|Obscura]]"
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05:36:16 <esolangs> [[Happy Ghast]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158695 * MihaiEso * (+1395) Created page with "After [[Toad (Pit Crew)]] got relevant to my ideas, it's time for a new one, and this time is from a rideable mob that was announced for Minecraft in March 2025. But, here's the difference, if you harness a Happy Ghast, YOU CAN FLY WITH IT! '''Happy Ghast''' is a
05:38:11 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158696&oldid=158573 * MihaiEso * (+39)
05:39:35 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158697&oldid=158571 * MihaiEso * (+102)
05:57:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158698&oldid=158691 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+371) /* Why inactive on ConwayLife? */
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06:32:39 <esolangs> [[Happy Ghast]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158699&oldid=158695 * MihaiEso * (+2)
06:41:51 <esolangs> [[PythBrSc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158700&oldid=151223 * I am islptng * (+794) /* Examples */
06:50:20 <esolangs> [[Pn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158701 * I am islptng * (+500) Created page with "'''Pn''' is a '''P'''ytho'''n''' variant created by islptng. == Syntax == It was designed to reduce the keystrokes in Python programming. Instead using indents and newlines, we use brackets and semicolons, just like C. However, we have "short keywords". <pre> A = and
07:04:21 <esolangs> [[Pn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158702&oldid=158701 * I am islptng * (+803)
07:06:51 <esolangs> [[Pn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158703&oldid=158702 * I am islptng * (+6)
07:12:29 <esolangs> [[Pn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158704&oldid=158703 * I am islptng * (+34)
07:15:41 <esolangs> [[PythJS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158705 * MihaiEso * (+1482) Created page with "What happens if you take the syntax of JavaScript and take the newlines and indentation of Python? You get '''PythJS'''! '''PythJS''' is a esolang by Mihai Popa. It's JavaScript with newlines and indentation (no brackets, no semi-colons at end of lines), just like in P
07:16:00 <esolangs> [[Pn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158706&oldid=158704 * I am islptng * (+6) /* Syntax */
07:16:01 <esolangs> [[PythJS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158707&oldid=158705 * MihaiEso * (+8)
07:16:06 <esolangs> [[Pn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158708&oldid=158706 * I am islptng * (+6) /* Interpreter */
07:17:25 <esolangs> [[Pn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158709&oldid=158708 * I am islptng * (+3)
07:21:36 <esolangs> [[PythJS/Examples]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158710 * MihaiEso * (+9159) Created page with "{{Back|PythJS}} == Examples == === A more complex example, a JavaScript function that converts numbers to words === JavaScript: <pre> function toWords(number, language) { if (language == "English") { // From 1 to 12 and zero! if (number == 0) return("
07:23:41 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158711&oldid=158696 * MihaiEso * (+53)
07:24:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158712&oldid=158683 * MihaiEso * (+12)
07:24:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158713&oldid=158712 * MihaiEso * (+1) /* P */ Fixed syntax error.
07:27:28 <esolangs> [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158714&oldid=158711 * MihaiEso * (+0) Updated number.
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08:35:30 <esolangs> [[-HELL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158715&oldid=157028 * Yetyetty1234567890 * (-451) 6guty5f
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09:36:21 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158716&oldid=158667 * PrySigneToFry * (+91)
09:51:58 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158717 * PrySigneToFry * (+7312) Created page with "What the [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0|fck]]!!!!!! 1. Take the . <pre class='rectwrap'> Wines from Het..."
09:54:50 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158718&oldid=158673 * PrySigneToFry * (+38)
10:12:38 <esolangs> [[Python But WORST]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158719&oldid=145094 * PrySigneToFry * (+341)
10:47:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:E42212]]": not a user (and appears to be a typoed page title the author created the page at the correct title shortly afterwards)
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11:13:12 <HackEso> ls: cannot access '/bin/as-*': No such file or directory
11:13:17 <ais523> `` ls /hackenv/bin/as-*
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11:22:27 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158720&oldid=158489 * Pifrited * (+242) /* Commands */
11:36:37 <esolangs> [[Dionysus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158721 * PrySigneToFry * (+4310) Created page with "{{AKA|title=Bacchus}} Dionysus is an esoteric programming language designed by PSTF. It is based on random technique. = About the name = Dionysus (Greek: ) was the god of wine in ancient Greek mythology, also known as Bacchus. He is not only the god of wine, but
11:37:38 <esolangs> [[Dionysus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158722&oldid=158721 * PrySigneToFry * (-2)
11:41:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158723&oldid=158713 * PrySigneToFry * (+15)
11:43:42 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158724&oldid=158716 * Hotcrystal0 * (+32)
11:45:21 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158725&oldid=158724 * Hotcrystal0 * (+8)
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11:47:56 <esolangs> [[Template:Lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158726&oldid=131083 * PrySigneToFry * (+245)
11:52:22 <ais523> `as-encoding movzdq %eax, %rax
11:52:25 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: no such instruction: `movzdq %eax,%rax'
11:52:53 <ais523> `as-encoding movzx %eax, %rax
11:52:54 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: unsupported syntax for `movzx'
11:53:25 <ais523> `as-encoding movzx %rax, %eax
11:53:27 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: unsupported syntax for `movzx'
11:53:41 <ais523> `as-encoding movsdq %eax, %rax
11:53:43 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: invalid instruction suffix for `movsd'
11:53:48 <ais523> `as-encoding movsd %eax, %rax
11:53:49 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: operand type mismatch for `movsd'
11:53:54 <ais523> `as-encoding movsq %eax, %rax
11:53:56 <HackEso> {standard input}: Assembler messages: \ {standard input}:1: Error: operand type mismatch for `movs'
11:54:04 <ais523> `as-encoding movsx %eax, %rax
11:54:07 <HackEso> 48 63 c0: movslq %eax,%rax
11:56:57 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158727&oldid=157987 * PrySigneToFry * (+1098)
11:59:36 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158728&oldid=158727 * PrySigneToFry * (+65)
12:00:31 <APic> Can it do Intel-Syntax, too?
12:03:21 <ais523> `as-encoding .intel_syntax noprefix; movsx rax, eax
12:03:24 <HackEso> 48 63 c0: movslq %eax,%rax
12:03:33 <ais523> yes in the input, I don't think it does it in the output though
12:07:41 <fizzie> The `objdump` tool could do it (via a command-line argument), but that wrapper doesn't have a way to put that in.
12:09:12 <fizzie> `` echo ".intel_syntax noprefix; movsx rax, eax" | as -o /tmp/out.o - && objdump -M intel -d /tmp/out.o | grep -P '^ *[0-9a-f]+:' | sed 's/^[^\t]*\t//; s/ *\t/: /g'
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12:14:37 <ais523> hmm, "movsxd" is not Intel's name for the instruction – I am OK with non-Intel names when using AT&T syntax, but it seems weird in Intel syntax
12:18:15 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158729&oldid=158718 * Hotcrystal0 * (+136)
12:20:31 <fizzie> Maybe I should install nasm and ndisasm, that's the Intel syntax flavor I'm familiar with.
12:20:44 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158730&oldid=158717 * Hotcrystal0 * (+48)
12:30:46 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158731&oldid=158720 * Pifrited * (+809)
12:43:11 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158732&oldid=158730 * Hotcrystal0 * (+76)
12:47:09 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0 2nd time]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158733 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7149) Created page with "[[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again+|What?]] 1. Take the shit. <pre class='rectwrap'> It's just part of what's important for you to find a place where you can find a place where you can find a place where you can find a place where you can
12:47:27 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0 2nd time]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158734&oldid=158733 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
12:50:26 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0 2nd time]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158735&oldid=158734 * Hotcrystal0 * (+33)
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13:01:46 <esolangs> [[Nice is plushie-complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158736&oldid=135766 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21)
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13:19:08 <b_jonas> heck, yet another unreachable website: http://yasm.tortall.net/ this one was supposed to have another assembler program
13:20:52 <b_jonas> perlbot head http://yasm.tortall.net/
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13:24:30 <esolangs> [[No Instructions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158737&oldid=119083 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+263)
13:25:31 <esolangs> [[No Instructions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158738&oldid=158737 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0)
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14:11:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158739&oldid=158568 * Pifrited * (+237) /* What do you think of TopNote? */ new section
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14:21:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158740&oldid=158739 * I am islptng * (+650) /* What do you think of TopNote? */
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14:33:16 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158741&oldid=158731 * Pifrited * (+100)
14:36:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158742&oldid=158740 * Pifrited * (+209) /* What do you think of TopNote? */
14:43:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158743&oldid=158742 * Aadenboy * (+428) /* What do you think of TopNote? */
14:44:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158744&oldid=158743 * Aadenboy * (+351) /* What do you think of TopNote? */
14:53:27 <esolangs> [[(a)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158745&oldid=131596 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+23) /* Numbers 1-10 in allergic variant */
14:55:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited/TopNote]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158746 * Cycwin * (+91) Created page with ",?--[[User:Cycwin]]"
15:00:16 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Template:Prelike]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158747 * Aadenboy * (+413) draft
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15:00:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158748&oldid=158744 * Aadenboy * (-20) /* What do you think of TopNote? */
15:14:29 <esolangs> [[When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158749&oldid=133995 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+3) /* See Also */
15:27:21 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158750&oldid=156152 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+21)
15:29:30 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158751&oldid=158631 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+63) /* 2025 */
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16:29:27 <esolangs> [[Tedium]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158752 * Helpeesl * (+1297) Created page with "== Intro == Tedium is an esolang created by [[user:Helpeesl]] and is designed to take as long as possible to do anything. == The commands == === The commands in their base form === -A Subtracts the next to top item of stack A from the top item of stack A ~AB Takes the
16:31:09 <esolangs> [[Tedium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158753&oldid=158752 * Helpeesl * (+17)
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17:42:08 <esolangs> [[CanCan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158754 * EsolangFloris * (+1049) Make page for the CanCan language.
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18:31:34 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158755&oldid=158522 * Zhil * (+1706) Initial Lean proofs
18:32:29 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158756&oldid=158755 * Zhil * (+48)
18:54:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Aadenboy * uploaded a new version of "[[File:SmolderNodes101.png]]": prettier graph
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18:54:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Aadenboy * uploaded a new version of "[[File:SmolderNodes202.png]]": prettier graph
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19:22:21 <esolangs> [[When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158759&oldid=158749 * Corbin * (+2518) Okay, it's been nine months; let's fix this page up. First, actors.
19:45:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:SmolderNetwork.png]]": The entire network of [[Smolder]] cells.
19:49:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:SmolderSelfContainedRing.png]]": The self-contained ring of [[Smolder]] cells.
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19:52:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Smolder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158762&oldid=158678 * Aadenboy * (+1212) some more interesting revelations
19:53:03 <esolangs> [[When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158763&oldid=158759 * Corbin * (+2417) Hey guys, did you know that in terms of constraint-handling and programming languages, CHR is the most compatible handler for languages? Not only is it in the logical-language group, which is mostly comprised of Prologs, CHR are an average of
19:56:07 <esolangs> [[When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158764&oldid=158763 * Aadenboy * (+133) comments in the pseudocode example. might be incorrect!
20:05:15 <ais523> korvo: on the subject of a when-statement, I am reminded of "always" from Verilog, which I don't fully understand but seems to be similar
20:05:46 <korvo> ais523: Another great example. I'm not confident enough with HDLs to whip out that section, but I'll do the research to understand what to write.
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20:08:02 <ais523> it must be up there with the weirdest names for control flow instructoins
20:12:17 <esolangs> [[When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158765&oldid=158764 * Corbin * (+1375) /* Actors and Messages */ Be incredibly specific about ordering of events. Hopefully the example is simple enough to understand.
20:17:21 <ais523> actually the thing that confuses me most about HDLs is how behavioural and procedural code interact
20:17:41 <ais523> I understand both in on their own, but they are so different from each other that it's hard to understand what happens if you put them both into the same program
20:18:45 <b_jonas> is that the code that does something even if you put it in the body of an if(0)?
20:19:22 <b_jonas> I guess come-from can do that too
20:20:30 <ais523> ah, OK, this explains both of the things i was confused about, I think: https://stackoverflow.com/a/36273866
20:21:37 <ais523> (and is a very easy-to-understand description of what always actually does)
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21:20:01 <esolangs> [[When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158766&oldid=158765 * Corbin * (+986) Add a little section on Verilog. I think that this is right but I don't have a toolchain set up to verify.
21:20:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158767&oldid=158723 * Buckets * (+15)
21:21:11 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158768&oldid=158687 * Buckets * (+14)
21:21:27 <esolangs> [[ATAL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158769 * Buckets * (+1469) Created page with "A.T.A.L. is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2023. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | i.a, || Set the Variable a to The User Input. |- | o.b, || Print out the Variable b. |- | "".c, || Set What is within the Quotes into
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21:29:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:When statement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158770&oldid=134000 * Corbin * (+883) Just keep rambling on.
21:30:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Buckets * moved [[ATAL]] to [[A.T.A.L.]]
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21:46:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158773&oldid=149928 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2892) /* still less verbose than java */ new section
21:46:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158774&oldid=158773 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+258) /* still less verbose than java */
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22:04:10 <esolangs> [[9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158775&oldid=144926 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+21) /* Converting the program to just print, ++ and ? */
22:17:26 <esolangs> [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158776&oldid=149136 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+35)
23:06:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:SLet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158777&oldid=152715 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+432) /* comparison */ new section
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23:40:50 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158778&oldid=158161 * Hotcrystal0 * (+801)
23:50:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158779&oldid=158746 * I am islptng * (+754) /* */ new section
00:13:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:SLet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158780&oldid=158777 * I am islptng * (+643) /* comparison */
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01:50:02 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158781&oldid=158725 * PrySigneToFry * (+590)
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02:07:44 <zzo38> The SyncTERM documentation says CSI Ps ; Pn1 ; Pn2 ; Pn3 t is used for setting 24-bit colours if Ps is 0 or 1, but xterm documentation says CSI 8 ; height ; width t is used for setting the screen size in characters. This does not conflict, but I don't know if either program will be confused by each other's use of CSI t, and SyncTERM does not seem to have any command to program the terminal size (but there is a command to read it).
02:12:59 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158782 * PrySigneToFry * (+14080) Created page with "What the [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0 2nd time|fck]]!!!!!! 1. Take the . <pre> One of the important s..."
02:13:36 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158783&oldid=158462 * Timwi * (+2187) Arrays (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqoGbFHmVxM)
02:14:02 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/Hotcrystal0 2nd time]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158784&oldid=158735 * PrySigneToFry * (+62)
02:17:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158785&oldid=157503 * PrySigneToFry * (+1049) /* Collaborative language about Radicals */ new section
02:23:25 <esolangs> [[Dionysus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158786&oldid=158722 * PrySigneToFry * (+35) Adding a category
02:24:22 <esolangs> [[Dionysus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158787&oldid=158786 * PrySigneToFry * (-4)
02:26:36 <esolangs> [[Dionysus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158788&oldid=158787 * PrySigneToFry * (+6)
02:26:39 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158789&oldid=158782 * Hotcrystal0 * (+17)
02:34:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158790&oldid=158781 * Hotcrystal0 * (-261)
02:36:58 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158791&oldid=158790 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
02:40:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158792&oldid=158785 * Aadenboy * (+404)
03:21:02 <Sgeo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_semiring
03:35:03 <esolangs> [[User talk:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158793&oldid=158792 * PrySigneToFry * (+1182)
03:56:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158794&oldid=158698 * PrySigneToFry * (+1020) /* Rate of me */ new section
04:04:43 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158795&oldid=158741 * PrySigneToFry * (-14)
04:14:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158796&oldid=158794 * Aadenboy * (+307) /* Rating */
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04:16:46 <Guest37> I was wondering is there's anything like state elimination for FSA, but for turing machines. I know that a turing machine can not be reduced to a regular expression, but maybe at least some reduction is possible.
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04:25:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158797&oldid=158748 * PrySigneToFry * (+198) /* Make it even scarier !!!! */ new section
04:33:19 <esolangs> [[SBFC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158798&oldid=158599 * L4.m2 * (+310)
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05:05:08 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158799&oldid=158791 * PrySigneToFry * (+331)
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06:07:41 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158800&oldid=158751 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+49) /* Users */
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06:24:25 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My words]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158801&oldid=158449 * PrySigneToFry * (+221)
06:24:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158802&oldid=117350 * Cycwin * (+205) /* Another proof? */ new section
06:25:14 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My words]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158803&oldid=158801 * PrySigneToFry * (+20)
06:28:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158804&oldid=158802 * Cycwin * (+90) /* Another proof? */
06:32:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158805&oldid=158804 * Cycwin * (+133) /* Another proof? */
06:40:05 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158806&oldid=158805 * Cycwin * (+211) /* Another proof? */
06:45:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158807&oldid=158806 * Cycwin * (+32) /* Another proof? */
06:51:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Transet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158808&oldid=158807 * Cycwin * (+38) /* Another proof? */
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08:36:55 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158809&oldid=158800 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1) /* Users */
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09:46:22 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PSTF Again++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158810&oldid=158789 * PrySigneToFry * (+1876)
09:57:40 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158811&oldid=158465 * PrySigneToFry * (+178)
10:00:14 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158812&oldid=158795 * Pifrited * (+719)
10:04:30 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158813&oldid=158812 * Pifrited * (-34)
10:30:02 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158814&oldid=158813 * Pifrited * (+544)
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10:32:39 <APic> Celebrate Syaday!
10:41:44 <korvo> Hail Eris. No better explanation for why I'm still awake.
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10:45:18 <HackEso> discord:The unofficial Esolangs and code golf Discord server: https://discord.gg/3UXSK5p
10:45:56 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158815&oldid=158814 * Pifrited * (+310) /* Examples */ ...
10:48:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158816&oldid=158779 * Pifrited * (+162) /* */
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12:10:00 <esolangs> [[ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158817&oldid=94735 * PrySigneToFry * (+139)
12:13:04 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158818&oldid=158799 * Hotcrystal0 * (+80)
12:13:50 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158819&oldid=158818 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
13:24:16 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158820&oldid=140844 * None1 * (+85)
13:25:20 <esolangs> [[XVector]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158821&oldid=158406 * None1 * (+1)
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13:37:07 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158822&oldid=158820 * None1 * (+42)
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13:38:14 <esolangs> [[RegRep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158823&oldid=156495 * Arutonee * (+558) Added example for addition and subtraction
13:41:31 <esolangs> [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158824&oldid=158815 * Pifrited * (+244)
13:44:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Pifrited * moved [[User:Pifrited/TopNote]] to [[TopNote]]
13:44:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Pifrited * moved [[User talk:Pifrited/TopNote]] to [[Talk:TopNote]]
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14:28:39 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158829&oldid=158819 * PrySigneToFry * (+390)
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16:02:03 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158830&oldid=154876 * B jonas * (+108)
16:02:42 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158831&oldid=158809 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+75) /* Users */
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16:04:34 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158832&oldid=158831 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+126) /* Users */
16:04:48 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158833&oldid=158832 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+0) /* Users */
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16:29:36 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne/Draft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158834&oldid=158130 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+1515)
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16:45:16 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158836&oldid=158833 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+24)
16:53:37 <esolangs> [[(-)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158837&oldid=150329 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+159)
16:54:32 <esolangs> [[AEFLPCP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158838&oldid=137213 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+10)
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16:55:51 <esolangs> [[BF (BestCoder)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158839&oldid=131219 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+59)
16:56:33 <esolangs> [[Afefoj]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158840&oldid=153356 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+8)
16:56:59 <esolangs> [[Burroughs 5000 assembly language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158841&oldid=139040 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+10)
16:58:51 <esolangs> [[Candidates for deletion]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=158842 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+293) Created page with "This page is for pages that should be deleted. If you see the page that should be deleted, please add it here. [[User:ais523]], if you see this page, please delete all pages that are listed here. == Candidates for deletion == * [[(mark]] * [
17:01:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158843&oldid=158404 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+198) /* Candidates for deletion */ new section
17:01:40 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158844&oldid=158836 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+45) /* Current strategy */
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17:06:29 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158845&oldid=158843 * Ais523 * (+351) /* Candidates for deletion */ it's probably a bad idea to create new admin processes without prior discussion
17:10:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ais523 * moved [[Candidates for deletion]] to [[Esolang:Candidates for deletion]]: created in the wrong namespace
17:11:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Candidates for deletion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158847&oldid=158846 * Ais523 * (-60) not an official Esolang process, but it might be useful to have somewhere that people can suggest pages that need deletion
17:13:59 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158848&oldid=158844 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+8)
17:14:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158849&oldid=158845 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+8) /* Candidates for deletion */
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18:24:44 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158850&oldid=158829 * Hotcrystal0 * (+94)
18:35:54 <zzo38> Is it possible with TLS for a client to send multiple certificate chains to the server with the same connection so that multiple certificate chains are usable at the same time?
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19:11:17 <esolangs> [[Whenever]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=158851&oldid=146679 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+43) /* Calculator */
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20:13:54 <zzo38> Even if it is not, there are a few ways to do such a thing anyways, such as by making nested TLS connections, or by storing a certificate chain inside of another certificate (although this will only work if both chains end with the same key, I think; and there may be a limit of the size of the certificate)
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21:21:41 <zzo38> In ZZT, a board grid can have several elements and one of these is Lines; for simplicity we can have Lines, Edges, Beams, and Others.
21:23:23 <zzo38> Line is displayed as a box drawing character with lines extending in whichever of the four directions there is a Edge or Line adjacent. Beams show as either east/west or north/south (regardless of what is adjacent).
21:24:15 <zzo38> If you have an existing grid of box drawing characters (and some of which are blank), can you minimize the number of Others (so that it can be drawn using Lines, Edges, and Beams as much as possible)?
21:31:52 <ais523> how is an Edge drawn if it's next to a Line?
21:35:53 <zzo38> Edges always appear blank, whether or not it is next to a Line. (For the purposes merely of display (although not for the behaviour), this is actually unnecessary because you can set foreground colours same as background colours, but for the problem I am describing, we can ignore colours since the result will be the same regardless of the colours.)
21:37:15 <ais523> ah, so an Edge allows a Line to extend to the edge of the character box rather than ending in the middle
21:37:44 <ais523> (although IIRC codepage 437 doesn't have line drawing characters that end in the middle, Unicode does)
21:38:48 <zzo38> ZZT uses the double lines, and for the cases where it should end in the middle, uses the ones with single lines perpendicular to the double lines, so that the double lines can end in the middle.
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