00:15:16 -!- isabella has changed nick to izacat.
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00:35:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dhzb * New user account
00:49:07 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154789&oldid=153862 * BoundedBeans * (+132) Added Quassaunt
00:50:44 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154790&oldid=154789 * BoundedBeans * (+209) Added SATire
01:03:56 <esolangs> [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154791&oldid=129348 * BoundedBeans * (+1245) Added ]]SET+TERMINATOR function
01:06:10 <esolangs> [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154792&oldid=154791 * BoundedBeans * (+212) Added queue detail of ]]SET+TERMINATOR
01:07:43 <esolangs> [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154793&oldid=154792 * BoundedBeans * (-112) No need to delete bin/ directory three separate times in truth-machine
01:13:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154794&oldid=153255 * I am islptng * (+1146)
01:14:32 <esolangs> [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154795&oldid=154793 * BoundedBeans * (+90) Clarified some aspects of gotos/labels
01:15:31 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154796&oldid=154784 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-15)
01:16:12 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154797&oldid=154796 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+12)
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01:48:07 <esolangs> [[Template:CURRENTDATE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154798 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+48) Created page with "{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}"
01:51:07 -!- [iovoid] has changed nick to iovoid.
02:03:22 <esolangs> [[Braindeadcpu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154799 * Baldibacak * (+743) creation of this shitty esolang
02:03:42 <esolangs> [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154800&oldid=154799 * Baldibacak * (+6)
02:07:11 <esolangs> [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154801&oldid=154800 * Baldibacak * (+38)
02:08:08 <esolangs> [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154802&oldid=154801 * Baldibacak * (+127) /* Commands */
02:08:16 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154803 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+105) Created page with "{{#ifeq: {{#time: m-d}} | 04-01 | <div>{{{2|}}}</div> | {{#ifeq: {{{1|y}}} | n | <div>{{{3|}}}</div> | }}"
02:08:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:ONE WAY]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154804 * DigitalDetective47 * (+404) /* Computational Class */ new section
02:11:47 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154805&oldid=154803 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2)
02:19:26 <esolangs> [[Piet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154806&oldid=151367 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+20) /* Commands */
02:30:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154807&oldid=154747 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+26) /* T */
02:37:47 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154808&oldid=154807 * Ais523 * (-26) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/154807|154807]] by [[Special:Contributions/JHSHernandez-ZBH|JHSHernandez-ZBH]] ([[User talk:JHSHernandez-ZBH|talk]]) it doesn't make sense to have a language that is on the language list only on April 1, that isn't how lists work
02:37:53 <esolangs> [[Brit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154809 * Dmiz * (+2358) Created page with "Brit is are an esolang created to be cool looking <br> Brit are stack based and suport variables <br> you write brit code using tildas(~) and lines to separate commands, you need the bar (|) at the beginning of each sentence, which tells the interpreter to execute the line, i
02:45:34 <esolangs> [[HQ9+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154810&oldid=153159 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-22)
03:08:47 <esolangs> [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154811&oldid=65726 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-9)
03:20:29 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154812&oldid=154746 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
03:21:13 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154813&oldid=154812 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2)
03:21:50 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154814&oldid=154813 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) /* Syntactic elements */
03:22:37 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154815&oldid=154814 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+4) /* NAND and the splitter */
03:26:04 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154816&oldid=154815 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+62) /* NAND and the splitter */
03:28:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154817&oldid=152087 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+110)
03:29:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154818&oldid=154817 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+47) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:29:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154819&oldid=154818 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+4) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:31:10 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154820&oldid=154805 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+80)
03:31:35 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154821&oldid=154820 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+13)
03:31:52 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154822&oldid=154821 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-13)
03:33:34 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154823&oldid=154822 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+27)
03:34:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154824&oldid=154819 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+81) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:34:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154825&oldid=154824 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-11) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:35:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154826&oldid=154825 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-1) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:35:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154827&oldid=154826 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+3) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:39:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154828&oldid=154827 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+138) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
03:39:46 <esolangs> [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154829&oldid=150366 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+10) /* See also */
03:40:18 <esolangs> [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154830&oldid=154829 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+8) /* See also */
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03:54:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154831&oldid=154218 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+34)
03:57:00 <esolangs> [[AREA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154832&oldid=144230 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[JAGL]] to [[Just]]
04:00:45 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154833&oldid=154201 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+26)
04:29:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154834&oldid=154828 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+18) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */
04:33:21 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154835&oldid=154797 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+10)
04:33:39 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154836&oldid=154835 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+7)
04:33:57 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154837&oldid=154836 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2)
04:34:07 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154838&oldid=154837 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
04:34:20 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154839&oldid=154838 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
04:34:38 <esolangs> [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154840&oldid=154839 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-13)
04:48:32 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154841&oldid=154833 * Ais523 * (-26) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/154833|154833]] by [[Special:Contributions/JHSHernandez-ZBH|JHSHernandez-ZBH]] ([[User talk:JHSHernandez-ZBH|talk]]) again, it doesn't make sense for a page to appear on a list only on April Fool's Day
04:50:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154842&oldid=154834 * Ais523 * (+592) /* I made a template for april fools */ this doesn't seem useful
05:19:24 <esolangs> [[User:Zzo38/Game rules]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154843&oldid=134089 * Zzo38 * (+59) The HTTP server is currently disabled due to botnets but there is an alternative resource.
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05:35:59 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154844 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+379) Created page with "A language is '''Ifle-complete''' if it satisfies the following requirements: # It must be [[plushie-complete]]. # It must be able to do all functions available in [[TM]]. # It must be able to do all functions available in [[HQ9+]]. # It must be able to do
05:37:29 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154845&oldid=154844 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-73)
05:39:26 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154846&oldid=154845 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+23)
05:41:13 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154847&oldid=154846 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-3)
05:46:38 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154848&oldid=154847 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-11)
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07:17:49 <b_jonas> `learn The password of the month is outside the scope of this wisdom entry.
07:17:53 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is outside the scope of this wisdom entry.
07:17:56 <HackEso> The password of the month is outside the scope of this wisdom entry.
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07:40:09 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154849&oldid=154424 * JIT * (+35)
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07:55:33 <korvo> Okay, I got the arrows the right way around: https://gist.github.com/MostAwesomeDude/f31eff9e483a9e0223f14fb629c55755
07:56:41 <korvo> When I was ranting the other night, I was holding the symmetries inside-out and thus upside-down; I was looking at {4} and {1, 1, 1, 1} and saying that their cardinalities were 4 and 1 instead of 1 and 4.
07:57:24 <korvo> But the principles still apply. The idea about compilers seems to make sense, although I'm a little sleep-deprived and maybe it's gibberish.
08:01:00 <korvo> I'm gonna sleep on it, but I'm thinking about surjectivity. Last time, we talked about the BF fragments [>+<-] and [->+<] which perform the same copy/move operation and witness a commuting series of memory accesses. More directly, [-] and [+] perform the same memory operation up to get/put semantics; they both put 0 to the pointed cell.
08:02:16 <korvo> This is a sense in which compiling to a Brand A system *requires* symmetry breaking, even if one wants to argue that [>+<-] and [->+<] are technically subtly different in their micro-op ordering.
08:03:43 <esolangs> [[TEIJFOP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154850&oldid=154225 * JIT * (-29)
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08:40:14 <ais523> hmm, now I'm thinking about Brainpocalypse II – as far as I can tell, the only symmetry of the numerical version is in which number you give to which cell – and the minimized version doesn't straightforwardly have even that symmetry
08:41:13 <ais523> the BF-like <>+- version contains more symmetries, as you can add and remove <> and >< pairs as long as you don't go to the left of the starting location
08:41:52 <ais523> there's a point at which removing symmetries from an algorithm makes a program, but I'm not sure which of those points it is
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09:08:54 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154851&oldid=154407 * I am islptng * (+1469)
09:15:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154852&oldid=154686 * Dhzb * (+144)
09:23:20 <esolangs> [[User:Dhzb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154853 * Dhzb * (+26) Created page with "# [[Rura|rura]] # [[Moed]]"
09:23:32 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154854&oldid=154851 * I am islptng * (+76)
09:26:36 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154855&oldid=154854 * I am islptng * (-196) /* Examples */
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10:36:06 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154856&oldid=154848 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+30)
10:38:12 <esolangs> [[Islp-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154857 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+45) Redirected page to [[User:I am islptng/Islp-complete]]
10:38:37 <esolangs> [[Islp-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154858&oldid=154857 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[User:I am islptng/Islp-complete]] to [[User:I am islptng/Islp-Complete]]
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10:46:47 <esolangs> [[5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154859&oldid=145654 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+89) count: 5, 2, 3, 4, 1, 6, 7, 8, 9
10:48:51 <esolangs> [[5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154860&oldid=154859 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+48)
10:49:04 <esolangs> [[5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154861&oldid=154860 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+1)
10:49:26 <esolangs> [[5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154862&oldid=154861 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) /* Cell-based instructions */
10:50:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154863&oldid=154583 * RocketRace * (+147) /* Unstack */
10:54:02 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154864 * JIT * (+13153) Created page with "MetaInterpreter (or TIN PET (for short)) is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025, April fools (or the april fools<sup>th</sup> of 2025) ''"What if the esolang had an interpreter (that was also an esolang) and <small>the esolang had an interpreter (that was also an eso
10:54:42 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154865&oldid=154808 * JIT * (+22)
10:55:00 <esolangs> [[TIN PET]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154866 * JIT * (+29) Redirected page to [[MetaInterpreter]]
10:56:25 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154867&oldid=154856 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+72)
11:08:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154868&oldid=154842 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-52) /* I made a template for april fools */
11:10:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154869&oldid=154868 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+236) /* I made a template for april fools */
11:11:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154870&oldid=154869 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+4) /* I made a template for april fools */
11:12:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * JHSHernandez-ZBH * moved [[Template:April]] to [[User:JHSHernandez-ZBH/templates/April]]: unusable
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11:16:41 <esolangs> [[Introduction to esolang design]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154873&oldid=76470 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-6) /* Other Sentence Type Languages */
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12:07:01 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154874&oldid=152091 * 447xpro * (+325) /* Notable implementations */ Added docker runtime
12:08:02 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154875&oldid=154874 * 447xpro * (-2) /* Docker runtime */ link format
12:09:26 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154876&oldid=151073 * 447xpro * (+256) /* Normal implementations */ Added docker implementation
12:10:36 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154877&oldid=154875 * 447xpro * (-43) /* Docker runtime */ nicer link
13:03:20 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154878&oldid=154809 * Dmiz * (+6)
13:06:41 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154879&oldid=154878 * Dmiz * (+1)
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13:37:02 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154880&oldid=154879 * Dmiz * (+276)
13:43:34 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154881&oldid=154880 * Dmiz * (-95)
13:54:54 <esolangs> [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154882&oldid=154802 * Baldibacak * (-17)
13:57:18 <esolangs> [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154883&oldid=154882 * Baldibacak * (+43)
14:04:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154884&oldid=154254 * Cycwin * (+588) /* S I M T S */ new section
14:08:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154885&oldid=154884 * Cycwin * (+29) /* S I M T S */
14:13:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154886&oldid=154885 * Cycwin * (+84) /* S I M T S */
14:30:50 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154887&oldid=154788 * PrySigneToFry * (+41)
14:34:25 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154888&oldid=154887 * PrySigneToFry * (-1)
14:38:27 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154889&oldid=154881 * Dmiz * (-60)
14:39:25 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154890&oldid=154889 * Dmiz * (+86)
14:42:47 <esolangs> [[Moed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154891 * Dhzb * (+1118) Created page with "{{WIP}} Moed (pronounced /mid/) is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:Dhzb]]. == Whitespace == Whitespace is ''sometimes'' significant. === Newlines === Newlines can be scoped inside of <code>{...}</code> curly braces which can be targeted by newline-imperae.
14:45:30 <esolangs> [[User:Dhzb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154892&oldid=154853 * Dhzb * (+33)
14:48:25 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154893&oldid=154890 * Dmiz * (+45)
14:49:08 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154894&oldid=154893 * Dmiz * (-49)
15:13:58 <esolangs> [[2DSPC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154895 * Esdraslov * (+2292) Created page with "[[2DSPC]] is a 2D esolang by [[User:Esdraslov]] == commands == Whatever something is pushed to the stack, it's pushed to the start of it, so the stack functions as a queue. {| class="wikitable" !command !action |- |style="text-align:center"|<code><</code> |Changes th
15:16:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154896&oldid=154328 * Hotcrystal0 * (-243)
15:18:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154897&oldid=153763 * Hotcrystal0 * (+187) /* TBG-based additions to UserEdited */ new section
15:24:25 <esolangs> [[!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154898 * Esdraslov * (+286) Created page with "!!!!!111!!!!11111!!!!!!!11!!!111 == Commands == <code>!</code> does nothing <code>!</code> prints!!!!!!!!!!!!111! <code>!</code> is [[brainfuck]] [ and ] <code>1111</code> 1, just 1 == Examples == === !1111 !11111 === !1111 !11111 (1st April joke) [[
15:24:53 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154899&oldid=154891 * Dhzb * (+22)
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15:33:58 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154900&oldid=154899 * Dhzb * (+47)
15:38:23 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cellular automaton]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154901 * Hotcrystal0 * (+278) Created page with "==Do cellular automata '''really''' count as esolangs?== For example, is [[CGoL]] really an esolang? Theres not really any output, unless you consider the next generation to be. ~~~~"
15:38:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cellular automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154902&oldid=154901 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
15:40:37 <esolangs> [[Scratcholang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154903&oldid=147650 * Hotcrystal0 * (+5) word fix, also its intended to be linked to on Scratch so used a clean name for brainf
15:41:11 <esolangs> [[Scratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154904&oldid=151657 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
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15:53:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cellular automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154905&oldid=154902 * Corbin * (+482) /* Do cellular automata really count as esolangs? */ Yes.
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16:23:20 <esolangs> [[Cellular automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154906&oldid=146197 * Corbin * (+600) Reframe popularity for the world outside GoL wiki: the most important CAs are in biology and physics.
16:24:04 <korvo> Maybe it's just me, but I don't give a fuck that Wolfram put a number on a particular automaton. I care a lot more about the fact that some particular sea snail happens to biologically implement that automaton.
16:26:33 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154907&oldid=154900 * Dhzb * (+1466)
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16:48:28 <ais523> korvo: so the "any quiescent configuration should be equally valid" in the cellular automaton article is wrong – it would allow you to use a quiescent configuration that, e.g., encodes a halting oracle and use that to prove the cellular automaton uncomputable
16:49:10 <korvo> ais523: Which article, CA or GoL? The GoL article's freshly researched but the CA one was already like that when I got here.
16:49:42 <ais523> you were editing near it at the time – I'm not holding you responsible for it but thought you might have ideas on how to fix it
16:49:55 <korvo> Ah, okay. I'm afraid I don't know why it claims that, and it seems obviously wrong given that a Penrose tiling can carry a unary stream of (low-complexity) bits in its initial configuration.
16:50:51 <korvo> Hm, so how *should* it be fixed? Should we define the concept of agar?
16:52:10 <ais523> so this is awkward because a) it's impossible for the all-blank configuration to ever be TC if the CA is based on a regular tiling, b) for some CAs, periodic conditions may be more powerful than finitely initialised configurations
16:52:54 <ais523> the equivalent problem for Turing machines (defining which initializations logically "should" be allowed) is one that I tried to solve for many years and eventually gave up on
16:53:28 <korvo> Oh, and (c) a TC CA doesn't necessarily have universal construction in the sense of being able to instantiate an arbitrary pattern. I documented this for GoL and I'm still chewing through what it means for our definitions.
16:54:23 <ais523> I think that if you're treating a CA as though it were a programming language, there's no real conceptual issue with starting from a garden of eden or other nonconstructible state
16:54:34 <korvo> For TMs there's an easy convention that you may have seen before: point the set of tape symbols and set the starting tape to be constantly that point. Basically give it a natural zero value.
16:55:25 <korvo> Then the complexity of stashing a predefined tape into the input program is precisely the Kolmogorov complexity of that tape over TMs. (For TMs of a given state/symbol count, I think?)
16:56:27 <ais523> korvo: yes; that's the "blank tape" starting state for TMs
16:57:03 <ais523> but, a TM that uses that starting state can't be fully Turing-complete because it can only run one program
16:57:07 <korvo> ais523: Yeah. I was hoping that phrasing would somehow unlock an analogy for CAs, but I'm not quite seeing it.
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16:58:02 <ais523> so normally TM proofs use either "finitely initialized" (i.e. only finitely many cells are not the blank tape element) or "periodically initialized"
16:58:49 <ais523> or even "periodic, then finite, then periodic" (with the periodic elements stretching to infinity)
16:59:21 <korvo> Huh. Can't a UTM just take two arguments on two input tapes, which WLOG can be one input tape? Or is that too fancy?
16:59:28 <ais523> the rule 110 TCness proof uses a periodic-finite-periodic starting state, to implement cyclic tag – but in fact it implements sequential tag and the periodicity is used to create an infinite sequential tag program
16:59:39 <ais523> korvo: sure, but then the tape isn't blank
17:00:56 <ais523> anyway, this means that maybe the rule 110 TCness proof isn't actually proving the language does everything needed to be TC, as its control flow (the infinite loop around the program) appears to be inherited from the initial state rather than created within the language
17:01:44 <ais523> Wolfram's 2,3 Turing machine did basically the same thing but was much more controversial, because the control flow stolen from the initial condition needs two nested loops (with the outer loop determining how many iterations the inner loop has) and so the starting tape pattern isn't periodic
17:02:43 <ais523> I don't know how to resolve this disconnect, and all my recent TCness-of-Turing-machines work has been using finitely initialised tapes
17:02:50 <korvo> Well, yeah, because what we're actually saying is that -- up to a Kolmogorov constant -- if the tape starts blank, then the program can finitely initialize it, or it can periodically initialize it with a cap that indicates how to extend it indefinitely later.
17:03:35 <korvo> We're not allowed to initialize the tape with an arbitrary oracle. It has to be something that can conceptually be encoded into the program itself.
17:03:51 <ais523> korvo: right, but this often happens in the context of trying to find the "simplest universal Turing machine" or "simplest universal cellular automaton" and in that case the Kolmogorov constant really mattesr
17:04:46 <ais523> and there's also the issue that, e.g., at least one Turing-complete TM exists, likewise at least one Turing-complete CA exists, but I don't think that should allow you to start from arbitrary computable tape states
17:09:04 <korvo> Well, that's always fundamentally going to be a search for convoluted encodings, right? In the sense that a Turing tarpit isn't ever going to cede universality merely because you've prefixed an environment with some fixed bitstring.
17:10:18 <korvo> I think that when we're trying to put inequalities onto an uncomputable function, we're allowed to use computability in our favor. That seems to be where the interesting inequalities come from, at least.
17:11:19 <ais523> right, the "convoluted encodings" is the primary problem, especially as what you permit in terms of encoding probably depends on what computational class you're trying to demonstrate
17:11:49 <ais523> for TCness demonstrations I like "the encoder has to be primitive recursive" – that a) ensures finite output and b) prevents the encoder doing the calculation itself
17:12:40 <korvo> Sorry, I might be bleeding a bit; I'm reading a writeup about simulating neurons in agar, and they have the line, "a simulated [neuron] in a simulated [plate of] agar should behave the same way as a real [neuron] in a real [plate of] agar". A computable simulation shouldn't be an obstacle.
17:15:03 <korvo> Ah, okay, this might be a genuine philosophical branch. I prefer diagonalization!
17:16:55 <korvo> So that might be why I'm leaning towards a two-tape presentation and flexible inputs; I'm not comfortable with a TM that can't take (two) inputs.
17:18:37 <ais523> I/O isn't needed for Turing-completeness, so the second tape is only really needed for I/O-completeness proofs
17:19:00 <korvo> ...Now that I'm saying that... The complexity class P is defined via diagonalization. Time Hierarchy is used to expand linear-time to quadratic-time, to cubic-time, all the way up. Then it's used again to define PH. P is self-low and its reductions are also in P.
17:20:11 <korvo> It's the Church-Turing thesis that R is kind of like the ceiling of the same sort of hierarchy built on PR. (I call that hierarchy PRF but it doesn't have a common name.) Not self-low, so maybe computable reductions are the wrong choice.
17:20:32 <korvo> But PR reductions are still the base of that hierarchy, and so maybe they're the right choice. Maybe they're the natural choice, even.
17:22:16 <korvo> PR reductions are closed under composition, so R would be a category in the nice way, like P or NP under poly-time reductions.
17:25:22 <korvo> ais523: I think that this suggests that "simplest universal TM/CA" is underspecified, because it's not an isomorphism-invariant concept under this setup: precomposition with a PR reduction will increase Kolmogorov complexity, as you noted.
17:26:21 <ais523> korvo: I agree! that doesn't stop people trying to solve the problem, but (due to being underspecified) it does mean they can reasonably come up with different answers
17:26:55 <korvo> Or, as we say in category-theory land, they are doing "evil" maths~
17:27:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hotcrystal0 * moved [[Afefoj-Flak]] to [[o-Flak]]: closer approximation of real title
17:27:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hotcrystal0 * moved [[Talk:Afefoj-Flak]] to [[Talk:o-Flak]]: closer approximation of real title
17:27:59 <esolangs> [[Rotate-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154912&oldid=153674 * Hotcrystal0 * (+5) Changed redirect target from [[Afefoj-Flak]] to [[o-Flak]]
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17:29:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Tautologylang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154913 * Rdococ * (+178) Created page with "Technically, every language fits the description for Tautologylang. Does that make them all dialects? ~~~~"
17:30:04 <ais523> so I like to work on precisely defined variations of the problem, such as "how many symbols do you need for a finitely initialised 2-state Turing machine to be universal, assuming that the halting behaviour needs to match and the initial state is generated as a computable function of the program to be run"
17:31:09 <ais523> my current record for that is 14, incidentally: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/265539
17:32:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154914&oldid=154636 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14)
17:32:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154915&oldid=154914 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
17:32:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154916&oldid=154915 * Hotcrystal0 * (-6)
17:33:18 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154917&oldid=154296 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7)
17:34:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154918&oldid=154916 * Hotcrystal0 * (+59)
17:35:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154919&oldid=154918 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
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18:04:48 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154920&oldid=154533 * H33T33 * (+232)
18:11:58 <b_jonas> “<ais523> for TCness demonstrations I like ‘the encoder has to be primitive recursive’” => ok, but you have to clarify what that means when you're initializing an infinite background pattern.
18:15:00 <ais523> b_jonas: blank (i.e. all the same symbol) everywhere outside the PR output
18:15:34 <ais523> periodic seems to give too much power, often by allowing you to implement sequential tag rather than cyclic tag
18:16:44 <b_jonas> for one that doesn't sound cheating, there's the Nopfunge thing that fills the quarter-plane periodically, with periodic near the edges too
18:20:34 <b_jonas> on a different note, Tom7 has revealed what geometry conjecture he was working on, and I very much understand its nerdsniping potential
18:32:14 <ais523> b_jonas: I see Nopfunge and its derivatives as more of a demonstration of *why* that should be considered cheating
18:32:28 <ais523> <^>v logically "shouldn't" be Turing-complete
18:40:26 <esolangs> [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154921&oldid=154810 * Ractangle * (+22) no
18:43:42 <esolangs> [[5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154922&oldid=154862 * Ractangle * (-138) !!!!!
18:45:47 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154923&oldid=154429 * Hotcrystal0 * (+16) testing
18:45:57 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154924&oldid=154923 * Hotcrystal0 * (+77)
18:47:00 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154925&oldid=154924 * Hotcrystal0 * (-93)
19:55:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154926&oldid=154865 * Buckets * (+61)
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19:55:55 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154927&oldid=154748 * Buckets * (+60)
19:56:10 <esolangs> [[EIGHT EGGS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154928 * Buckets * (+1412) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=EIG<sup>HT <sup>EGG<sup>S</sup></sup></sup>}} EIG<sup>HT <sup>EGG<sup>S</sup></sup></sup> is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | EGG ,<sup>EGG</sup>, <sup><s
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20:14:59 <ais523> esolangs: who invented the cellular automaton?
20:15:40 <esolangs> ais523: The cellular automaton concept was initially explored by **Stanislav Ulam** and **John von Neumann** in the 1940s, with **Alvy Ray Smith** formalizing it in the 1960s. While Ulam and von Neumann laid the groundwork, Smith's work is credited with establishing the basic principles and results for working with cellular automata.
20:19:20 <ais523> I was expecting the answer to be a lot less accurate than that
20:19:37 <ais523> there are at least two plausible wrong answers
20:29:08 <b_jonas> John Conway because of GoL; Martin Gardner because he popularized all recrational mathematics and people are often confused and think he invented more of it than he did; Gauss because he's always a plausible answer for who invented something in mathematics
20:34:20 <b_jonas> Noam Chomskey can also be a suspect because of how he defined context-sensitive grammars
20:41:46 <ais523> huh, are context-sensitive grammars similar to cellular automata in any way?
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20:46:44 <b_jonas> ais523: store symbols from a finite alphabet per cell and each step modifies symbols locally.
20:47:10 <b_jonas> the difference is that cellular automata apply rules simultansouly everywhere, while context-sensitive grammar applies one rule somewhere locally at a time
20:48:01 <b_jonas> well, this is for one-dimensional cellular-automata, that's what context-sensitive grammars are similar to to be clear
20:48:18 <b_jonas> (also context-sensitive grammar are allowed to delete cells)
20:48:31 <ais523> this reminds me of how the "check if a context-free grammar is ambiguous" problem is TC – there's a pretty simple construction which emulates what's basically a Turing machine directly (except that instead of a BF-like tape, it has a finite-length tape but one symbol can be expanded into two or more to lengten the tape)
20:49:31 <ais523> the basic idea is that the potentially ambiguous input string (which the ambiguity checker is trying to find – you don't provide it) consist of a history of tapes, with a separator symbol between them, and every second element is written backwards
20:49:32 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154929&oldid=154864 * Buckets * (+204)
20:49:49 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154930&oldid=154929 * Buckets * (+1)
20:51:02 <ais523> one possible parse is just a set of rules that treat tape symbols in the first tape like opening brackets and tape symbols in the second tape like closing brackets, with a separator symbol at the innermost point – you just repeat that with separators between them, and handle changes to the TM state and tape by moving a tape-head symbol around (sort-of like how you prove Thue and Thupit)
20:51:10 <ais523> the other possible parse is the same but with the first tape hardcoded
20:51:57 <ais523> so you basically end up with the ambiguity checker running back and forth along the tape, changing the tape around the TM head as appropriate
20:56:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154931&oldid=154886 * I am islptng * (-132)
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20:59:55 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154932&oldid=154855 * I am islptng * (+86)
21:02:37 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154933&oldid=154927 * Buckets * (+131)
21:32:18 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154934&oldid=154933 * Buckets * (+72)
21:50:16 <korvo> ais523: The bot had good RAG because I beefed up the CA article and also the timeline/history of esolangs pages.
21:50:37 <korvo> Fairly certain I'm the only on-wiki fan of Alvy Ray. A pixel is *not* a little square!
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21:52:49 <korvo> esolangs: Who invented the Game of Life cellular automaton?
21:53:37 <esolangs> korvo: The Game of Life cellular automaton was invented by **John Horton Conway** sometime between 1968 and 1970.
22:01:38 <korvo> esolangs: Who invented the Ant cellular automaton?
22:01:51 <korvo> This might not hit without "Langton" but I'm foolishly optimistic.
22:03:13 <b_jonas> ah yes, he doesn't fall into the same trap as I just did. there are two mathematicians called John Conway.
22:03:21 <esolangs> korvo: The Ant cellular automaton was invented by an anonymous individual.
22:09:59 <korvo> esolangs: Who invented the cellular automaton Langton's Ant?
22:11:11 <korvo> Also Melvin Conway, who wrote a very important paper around 1967 called "How do Committees Invent?" Famous paper that almost nobody actually reads or understands.
22:11:43 <esolangs> korvo: Langton's Ant was invented by Chris Langton in 1986.
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00:16:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154935&oldid=154931 * I am islptng * (+263) /* I'm planning the support of strings. Ideas anyone? */ new section
00:30:11 <b_jonas> I have a stupid esoteric idea. So you know how some websites try to display an email address in a captcha-like way where legitimate users can read it but spammers can't easily harvest many email addresses cheaply. This doesn't really work, because each email address is worth enough for a speedrun that they'll decode it unless you make the decoding so hard that legitimate users who want to email you get
00:30:17 <b_jonas> annoyed, and it gets especially annoying on websites that think any occurrence of an @ sign must be an email address that has to be protected this way.
00:33:02 <b_jonas> But suppose you ignore those problems and you want to protect an email address anyway. I think a theoretically nice way to protect it is using a client-side script that computes a password hash to get a symmetric key that it then uses to decode the encrypted email address. The password hash is designed so that a spammer can't compute many of them cheaply, so this is proof of work. However, the decoding
00:33:08 <b_jonas> works purely on client side even if you don't allow to send any information from back to the server, so if a user is worried that the client-side script is just mining bitcoins for the server, they can easily verify that this isn't the case.
00:33:31 <b_jonas> This is still mostly useless because it's just a better way to do something that's mostly useless anyway.
00:49:52 <b_jonas> In fact this might be worse than average in practice (even if not in theory) because the spammers have access to bigger botnets of compromised computers to compute those password hashes on
00:54:15 <b_jonas> also although the legitimate user can in theory compute the hash without leaking back any information to the server, in practice that's almost impossible and the server can likely still hide their best effort bitcoin mining operation behind this without the user noticing easily
01:11:17 <zzo38> An alternative would be to just describe it in the text, it works without a script and won't hide something (since it is being handled manually, it wouldn't hide homoglyphs either).
01:14:46 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154936&oldid=154932 * I am islptng * (+361)
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03:50:23 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154937&oldid=154936 * I am islptng * (-58)
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04:04:04 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154938&oldid=154937 * I am islptng * (-33) /* Implementation */
04:04:33 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154939&oldid=154938 * I am islptng * (+50) /* Implementation */
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04:57:25 <zzo38> Would you be interested with a pokemon battle simulator implemented in C with a C API? I think that I would be, although I would want some help to do it. I have some ideas but would still need help with some stuff. (For one thing, if the API is done entirely wrong then it will have to be redone, and that won't do very well)
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05:06:53 <ais523> b_jonas: for some sites, you can just require logging in to see the email address
05:06:58 <ais523> but I guess that's less esoteric
05:07:10 * ais523 starts wondering what an esoteric version of that would look like
05:13:40 <zzo38> Or, requiring to use telnet or something like that
05:52:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TureGPT * New user account
05:57:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154940&oldid=154852 * TureGPT * (+167) /* Introductions */
06:01:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154941&oldid=154940 * TureGPT * (-14)
06:05:46 <esolangs> [[By+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154942&oldid=138817 * TureGPT * (+74) /* Commands */
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06:39:11 <esolangs> [[By+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154943&oldid=154942 * TureGPT * (+507) /* Example programs */
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06:39:45 <esolangs> [[By+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154944&oldid=154943 * TureGPT * (+7) /* Commands */
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06:42:04 <esolangs> [[User:TureGPT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154945 * TureGPT * (+83) Created page with "Haii! Me and my friend Raff made an esolang called [[by+]]. Thats.. about it lol :p"
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07:31:46 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154946&oldid=154555 * JIT * (+29)
07:32:20 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154947&oldid=154930 * JIT * (+2)
07:48:59 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154948&oldid=154946 * JIT * (+3468)
07:52:24 <esolangs> [[EIGHT EGGS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154949&oldid=154928 * JIT * (+1)
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08:08:39 <lisbeths> korvo: i've given up on writing applications
08:09:15 <lisbeths> writing applications with user interfaces has become so far removed from what coding is actually about
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09:00:28 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154950&oldid=154888 * I am islptng * (+1782)
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10:33:29 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154951&oldid=154867 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2)
10:45:38 <lisbeths> I have this idea for a dwarf fortress style game in the Linux terminal
10:45:48 <lisbeths> there are these little creatures that live in your filesystem
10:46:03 <lisbeths> such as goblins, boars, wizards, etcetera
10:46:11 <lisbeths> they wander through your filesystem battling and reproducing
10:46:37 <lisbeths> their reproduction cycle is limited by the amount of food you give them capping their population size
10:50:38 <esolangs> [[THIS IS NOT A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154952&oldid=141656 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+464)
10:51:02 <esolangs> [[THIS IS NOT A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154953&oldid=154952 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-464) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/154952|154952]] by [[Special:Contributions/JHSHernandez-ZBH|JHSHernandez-ZBH]] ([[User talk:JHSHernandez-ZBH|talk]])
10:52:56 <esolangs> [[One-Instruction Cyclic Tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154954&oldid=138946 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+20) Maybe
10:58:23 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154955&oldid=154951 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+39)
11:07:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Unlambda]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154956&oldid=139064 * Blashyrkh * (+177)
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11:24:16 <esolangs> [[User:GreenThePear/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154957&oldid=154628 * GreenThePear * (+1650) Directions
11:50:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RayhanEsolang * New user account
11:52:17 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154958&oldid=154907 * Dhzb * (+41) /* Dexterimperae */
12:02:03 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154959&oldid=154917 * Hotcrystal0 * (-7)
12:02:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154960&oldid=154486 * Hotcrystal0 * (+53) /* CGoL+ */ new section
12:59:59 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154961&oldid=154958 * Dhzb * (+1)
13:00:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154962 * Cycwin * (+41) Created page with "Can anyone help me to know if it is TC..."
13:04:03 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154963&oldid=154961 * Dhzb * (+123)
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14:15:47 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154965&oldid=154964 * Dhzb * (+46)
15:08:45 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154966&oldid=154965 * Dhzb * (+382)
15:29:29 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154967&oldid=154966 * Dhzb * (+7)
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15:33:49 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154968&oldid=154841 * Dhzb * (+11)
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16:41:41 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154969&oldid=154967 * Dhzb * (-4)
16:43:58 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154970&oldid=154969 * Dhzb * (+114)
17:09:54 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154971&oldid=154970 * Dhzb * (+1518) Complete the lists
17:30:34 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154972&oldid=154971 * Dhzb * (+12)
17:41:20 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154973&oldid=154926 * Dhzb * (+11) /* M */
17:48:11 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154974&oldid=150839 * Corbin * (+907) /* SKI calculus */ Spell out completeness. Anybody know who proved these?
17:50:55 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154975 * Dhzb * (+529) Created page with "== [[Hello world]] == (&Hello, world!)@ ("Hello, world!)>{=@ `,}= < == [[Truth machine]] == =_={@.}#` :.= == [[Cat]] == =@&`, == String sum == >&=`|\=+ =`<$.@ == Display color == This program displays a color using a string sum of the strings "red", "green", an
17:58:22 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154976&oldid=154972 * Dhzb * (-524) /* Examples */
18:02:32 <esolangs> [[Unlambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154977&oldid=150103 * Corbin * (+419) Infobox proglang, fix opening sentence, give example of syntax, sketch TC proof via LC.
18:04:45 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154978&oldid=154976 * Dhzb * (+19) /* Implementation */
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18:07:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:S and K Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154979&oldid=35769 * Corbin * (+478)
18:15:21 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154980&oldid=154978 * Dhzb * (+124) /* Implementation */
18:37:29 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154981&oldid=154980 * Dhzb * (-8)
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18:45:27 <esolangs> [[Turing tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154982&oldid=122732 * Corbin * (+507) Cleanup intro, fix external links, do some NPOV, match style on other concept articles.
19:29:24 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154983&oldid=154975 * Dhzb * (+724)
19:31:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154984&oldid=154973 * Buckets * (+11)
19:32:27 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154985&oldid=154934 * Buckets * (+10)
19:32:39 <esolangs> [[Ebur]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154986 * Buckets * (+972) Created page with "Ebur is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. There is a restriction Where The Length per Line is Equsl to the Line number + 1. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | -m- || The variable Name m. |- | /{n} || Name A variable
19:36:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154987&oldid=154984 * Ractangle * (-22) finish your language and then put it here
19:41:24 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154988&oldid=154987 * Ractangle * (+22) oops removed something
19:43:10 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154989&oldid=154988 * Ractangle * (-11)
19:44:10 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154990&oldid=154983 * Ractangle * (+14)
19:44:11 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154991&oldid=154968 * Dhzb * (-11)
19:51:24 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154992&oldid=154989 * Ractangle * (+11) nvm looks like it's done
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20:08:14 <esolangs> [[Turing tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154993&oldid=154982 * Corbin * (+2504) /* History */ Flesh out more history. There's still a narrative thread missing: *why* did the bubble burst?
20:10:39 <esolangs> [[Turing tarpit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154994&oldid=154993 * Corbin * (+96) Cite that claim about Bhm.
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21:10:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154995&oldid=154962 * I am islptng * (+574)
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21:12:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154996&oldid=154995 * I am islptng * (+24)
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23:17:39 <esolangs> [[L-system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154997&oldid=154741 * Stkptr * (+3420) /* Computational class */
23:22:58 <esolangs> [[L-system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154998&oldid=154997 * Stkptr * (+419) /* Computational class */
23:23:20 <esolangs> [[L-system]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154999&oldid=154998 * Stkptr * (+0) /* Computational class */
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23:29:03 <esolangs> [[L-system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155000&oldid=154999 * Stkptr * (+348) /* Computational class */
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00:41:43 <korvo> lisbeths: Yeah. I saw your message. I'm tired of writing UIs too.
00:41:51 <korvo> Frustrating that customers need UX or else we don't get paid.
00:42:12 <lisbeths> basically I've been imagining this dwarf fortress like game
00:42:18 <lisbeths> where these goblins live as files in your filesystem
00:42:32 <lisbeths> and they roam your filesystem hunting and eating boars and reproducing
00:57:49 <korvo> Maybe not something I would install.
02:08:34 <esolangs> [[User:Tpaefawzen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155001&oldid=154642 * Tpaefawzen * (+65) Previous accounts
02:47:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BigGreenHat * New user account
03:18:31 <zzo38> Is there software that can trace where a value that comes from input is eventually used in another program, to see how it affects certain outputs (e.g. to detect spyware and security issues)? Can such a thing ever effectively be made anyways?
03:27:00 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155002&oldid=154981 * Dhzb * (-143)
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03:54:25 <Sgeo> I just saw a definition of absolute value that allows for the absolute value to be imaginary.
03:54:31 <Sgeo> (For split-complex numbers).
03:54:47 <Sgeo> In high school I really wanted a way to have a negative absolute value.
03:55:10 <Sgeo> I.. guess split-complex absolute values don't quite fit but my jaw is still on the floor
04:31:23 <korvo> Good times. I didn't get split-complex numbers for a long time. I recently was shown that they are like the hyperbolic version of complex numbers, which is cool but confusing.
05:28:54 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155003&oldid=154990 * Dhzb * (+216)
05:29:59 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155004&oldid=155003 * Dhzb * (+12) /* Brainfuck */
05:48:42 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155005&oldid=155004 * Dhzb * (-6)
06:09:50 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155006&oldid=154939 * I am islptng * (+17)
06:36:10 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155007&oldid=155002 * Dhzb * (+77)
07:00:38 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155008&oldid=155006 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Implementation */
07:02:29 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155009&oldid=155008 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Strings */ unmatched brakets!
07:04:46 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155010&oldid=151730 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Stuff to continue */
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07:24:04 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155011&oldid=155005 * Dhzb * (+56)
07:25:38 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155012&oldid=155007 * Dhzb * (+1)
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08:09:49 <esolangs> [[L-system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155013&oldid=155000 * Stkptr * (+579) /* Computational class */
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08:38:44 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155014&oldid=155011 * Dhzb * (+307)
08:39:30 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155015&oldid=155012 * Dhzb * (+18) /* Future additions */
08:52:36 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155016&oldid=154148 * Dhzb * (+11) /* M */
09:34:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ractangle * uploaded "[[File:Emel not making esolangs.jpg]]"
09:35:47 <esolangs> [[Queue-based esolang++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155018&oldid=154468 * Ractangle * (+51)
10:09:48 <esolangs> [[Ebur+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155019 * JIT * (+919) Created page with "Ebur+ is just [[Ebur]] but better* and also an esolang by [[User:JIT]]*, 2025 also pi words including 3 {| class="wikitable" |+ it starts at 0 |- ! commands !! 2 !! 0 !! 1 |- | r || rotate right by 1 || rotate right by 1 || rotate right by 1 |- | ab || a<sup>th</sup> charact
10:10:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155020&oldid=154992 * JIT * (+12)
10:11:07 <esolangs> [[Ebur]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155021&oldid=154986 * JIT * (+29)
10:11:36 <esolangs> [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155022&oldid=154830 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-3) /* See also */
11:04:04 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155023&oldid=154372 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+18) /* See also */
11:05:40 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/Draft of EtPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155024&oldid=154675 * PrySigneToFry * (+347)
11:05:46 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155025&oldid=154991 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+50)
11:06:23 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155026&oldid=155025 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+43)
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11:35:52 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155027&oldid=154490 * PrySigneToFry * (+5)
11:38:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155028&oldid=153270 * PrySigneToFry * (+1036) /* Apollo(PSTF) */ new section
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11:50:54 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155029&oldid=154950 * PrySigneToFry * (+3237)
11:56:46 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155030&oldid=155029 * PrySigneToFry * (+135)
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13:43:12 <esolangs> [[By+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155031&oldid=154944 * TureGPT * (+2) /* Example programs */
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13:48:51 <esolangs> [[Brainknot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155032&oldid=154483 * Mahdoosh1 * (-3) optimized some code
13:51:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155033&oldid=155020 * Mahdoosh1 * (+16) Add my own language to the list
13:58:19 <esolangs> [[Brainknot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155034&oldid=155032 * Mahdoosh1 * (+25)
14:01:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:MIX (Knuth)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155035&oldid=52436 * B jonas * (+169)
14:11:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155036&oldid=154495 * PrySigneToFry * (+874)
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14:20:03 <esolangs> [[Tskastic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155037 * PrySigneToFry * (+2105) Created page with "Tskastic is an Esolang designed by PSTF, inspired from [[Thue]], [[Brainfuck 2.0]], [[SLet]], [[UserEdited]], [[EternalGolf]] and [[Emmental]]. The official pronounce of this language is /|stik/, but you can also pronounce with /tskstik/ if you can't pronounce a
14:25:58 <int-e> https://368chickens.com/ is a cute diversion
14:27:58 <fizzie> I thought that'd have something to do with the Intel 80386, but it didn't.
14:28:29 <int-e> yeah no clue why it's 368
14:29:02 <int-e> it could just track a highscore instead
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14:47:46 <wib_jonas> well if it's not connected to the intel x86 then 386 must refer to the number of members in the previous version of the parliament of Hungary from 1989 to 2014.
14:48:47 <wib_jonas> you can tell that there are no other significant things that 386 could reference because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(number)#386 mentions none
14:49:00 <wib_jonas> there isn't even a full number article
14:51:11 <fizzie> To be clear, the game's number is also 368, not 386.
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15:20:08 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Apollo(PSTF)]]": typoed page title, has since been renamed to the correct name
15:20:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155038&oldid=155028 * Ais523 * (+128) /* Apollo(PSTF) */ deleted
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15:21:34 <ais523> <zzo38> Is there software that can trace where a value that comes from input is eventually used in another program, to see how it affects certain outputs (e.g. to detect spyware and security issues)? Can such a thing ever effectively be made anyways? ← there are programming languages designed to do that, normally developed for AI/evolutionary programming techniques
15:22:28 <ais523> the idea is that the language records the output effect of each input, and is able to reverse it, so that, e.g., it is possible to determine what changes to the inputs would increase or decrease a particular output; this is known as "differentiable" programming/computing
15:22:49 <ais523> but, it's only really designed for programs which implement a continuous numerical function, not for general-purpose programmingg
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16:03:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155039&oldid=155036 * Hotcrystal0 * (+123)
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18:38:27 <esolangs> [[Deskin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155040&oldid=82201 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+342) Supplemented a rule whose conjencture emerges from the two extant examples' divergent output behaviors, added titles to the example programs, introduced a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, and altered the Unimplemented tag to Implemented.
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20:15:28 <esolangs> [[User:GreenThePear/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155041&oldid=154957 * GreenThePear * (-8) i don't remember
20:17:16 <esolangs> [[Larry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155042&oldid=139009 * ArsenicCatnip * (+2153) added another implementation. Still gotta fix the intro
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22:04:28 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155043&oldid=131443 * Lampe2020 * (+199) /* Description */
22:05:51 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155044&oldid=155043 * Lampe2020 * (+1) /* Additional stuff */
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01:38:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155045&oldid=154935 * I am islptng * (+65) /* RACTANGLE!TELL ME WHAT YOU DID WITH MY INTERPRETER */ new section
02:24:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155046&oldid=154941 * BigGreenHat * (+39)
02:24:49 <esolangs> [[Nah bro]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155047 * BigGreenHat * (+2646) Created page with "Nah-bro is a [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:BigGreenHat]] Comments start with # Top value of the stack is 0 Uses the .nah file extension == Instructions == <code> * (number) my ass # Append to stack * (index) go touch grass # Print * make (o
02:24:57 <esolangs> [[User:BigGreenHat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155048 * BigGreenHat * (+3) Created page with "hoi"
02:28:19 <esolangs> [[Nah bro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155049&oldid=155047 * BigGreenHat * (+94)
03:05:09 <esolangs> [[SeeLlash]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155050 * AnotherUser05 * (+4157) Created page with "'''SeeLlash''' is an esolang that is created by [[User:AnotherUser05]], which she finally wrote an interpreter for an esolang before making the page for it. ==Overview== The language is somewhat inspired by [[Brainfuck]], but only uses 2 values, which one of th
03:11:37 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155051 * PrySigneToFry * (+4250) Created page with "{{WIP}} {{Back|Tskastic}} We have a tape, several registers(like [[Apollo (PSTF)]]), an accumulator, a stack, and can manipulate memory. We use both base-10 and base-20. Here is the base-20 table: 0123456789. = Ascii = <pre style='font-family:Cons
03:12:00 <esolangs> [[Tskastic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155052&oldid=155037 * PrySigneToFry * (-5)
03:13:17 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155053&oldid=154676 * None1 * (+49) /* Basic area */
03:13:26 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155054&oldid=155053 * None1 * (-1) /* Basic area */
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04:36:19 <Sgeo> Watching a video about differentiation as an infinite matrix, and it shows that D^-1 * D != I, but D * D^-1 = I. This isn't possible with finite matrices, right?
04:41:54 <Sgeo> The video used D', I changed it to D^-1, but that's wrong of me, oops
05:15:17 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155055&oldid=155033 * C0ffee * (+9)
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05:18:40 <esolangs> [[Sb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155056&oldid=154291 * C0ffee * (+26)
05:21:42 <esolangs> [[Sb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155057&oldid=155056 * C0ffee * (+128)
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05:35:30 <esolangs> [[Sb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155058&oldid=155057 * C0ffee * (-4)
05:57:05 <Sgeo> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/816863/matrices-whose-product-is-identity-but-do-not-commute finite matrices of different sizes
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07:26:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155059&oldid=155045 * Ractangle * (+254) /* RACTANGLE!TELL ME WHAT YOU DID WITH MY INTERPRETER */
07:33:07 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155060&oldid=154674 * C++DSUCKER * (+1496)
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07:44:17 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155061&oldid=154948 * JIT * (+59)
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07:51:05 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155062&oldid=154947 * JIT * (+68)
07:54:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:(,!)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155063&oldid=133377 * JIT * (+1)
09:12:19 <esolangs> [[Blindfolded Arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155064&oldid=153971 * B jonas * (+1) /* Compiling individual steps */
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10:13:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KMorgan * New user account
11:14:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155065&oldid=154761 * JIT * (+267)
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11:22:00 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155066&oldid=155065 * JIT * (+6)
11:24:50 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155067&oldid=154433 * Hotcrystal0 * (-21)
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11:30:00 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155068&oldid=154925 * Hotcrystal0 * (+343)
11:30:19 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155069&oldid=155068 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
11:30:27 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155070&oldid=155069 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
11:30:37 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155071&oldid=155070 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
11:31:07 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155072&oldid=155071 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
11:34:56 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155073&oldid=155026 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-35)
11:35:28 <esolangs> [[Leocode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155074&oldid=119567 * JIT * (+130)
11:35:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155075&oldid=154870 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) /* I made a template for april fools */
11:37:02 <esolangs> [[User:JHSHernandez-ZBH/templates/April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155076&oldid=154871 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-59)
11:37:20 <esolangs> [[User:JHSHernandez-ZBH/templates/April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155077&oldid=155076 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+3)
11:39:10 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155078&oldid=155030 * PrySigneToFry * (+852)
11:47:18 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155079&oldid=155060 * C++DSUCKER * (-1495) I messes up and the ode returns all as looping
11:56:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155080&oldid=155046 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+121)
11:56:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155081&oldid=155080 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-2)
12:10:23 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155082&oldid=155051 * PrySigneToFry * (+13)
12:13:16 <esolangs> [[User:AnotherUser05]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155083&oldid=123863 * AnotherUser05 * (+24)
12:52:00 <esolangs> [[Piet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155084&oldid=154806 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+52) /* Notes */
13:08:45 <esolangs> [[MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155085&oldid=151858 * Cycwin * (+981) /* Interpreter */
13:13:36 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155086&oldid=155078 * I am islptng * (+910)
13:15:42 <esolangs> [[MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155087&oldid=155085 * Cycwin * (+181) /* Introduce&Syntax */
13:19:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155088&oldid=155038 * I am islptng * (+685) /* New category */
13:53:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155089&oldid=154960 * Hotcrystal0 * (+174) /* New signature for me */ new section
14:07:13 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155090 * 5anz * (+4721) Created page with "Hi, I'm 5anz, and this is my 5th esolang (counting [[brainXXXXXXXXXXx]] as one), and this one is about the Rhombitrihexagonal (or 3.4.6.4) Tiling, my personal favourite tiling, due to all the shapes it uses in a way that makes a dodecagon. It *IS* recommended yo
14:16:20 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155091&oldid=155090 * 5anz * (+41)
14:25:08 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155092&oldid=155086 * PrySigneToFry * (+1159)
14:26:05 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155093&oldid=155092 * PrySigneToFry * (+2)
14:26:48 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155094&oldid=155093 * PrySigneToFry * (+54)
14:28:03 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155095&oldid=155094 * PrySigneToFry * (-22)
14:28:38 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155096&oldid=155095 * PrySigneToFry * (+17)
14:32:38 <esolangs> [[User:5anz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155097&oldid=148216 * 5anz * (+109) /* brainXXXXXXXXXXx */
14:32:58 <esolangs> [[User:5anz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155098&oldid=155097 * 5anz * (-1) /* print("Hello, World!") */
14:35:05 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155099&oldid=155082 * PrySigneToFry * (+110)
14:39:06 <esolangs> [[User:5anz/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155100 * 5anz * (+1685) Created page with "== Question 1 == === Question 1a === ==== Question 1ai ==== ===== Question 1aiA ===== ====== Question 1aiAI ====== ====== Question 1aiAII ====== ===== Question 1aiB ===== ====== Question 1aiBI ====== ====== Question 1aiBII ====== ==== Question 1aii ==== ===== Que
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14:44:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155101&oldid=154896 * I am islptng * (+731)
14:49:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155102&oldid=155101 * Hotcrystal0 * (+148)
14:54:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155103&oldid=155066 * JIT * (+328) /* Interpreters? */ new section
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15:00:36 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155104&oldid=151907 * I am islptng * (+98) Redirected page to [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]]
15:02:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155105&oldid=155102 * Hotcrystal0 * (+246)
15:03:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155106&oldid=155105 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
15:06:18 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155107&oldid=155096 * I am islptng * (+77) /* The of , by T. , */
15:08:57 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155108&oldid=155107 * I am islptng * (+147)
15:10:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155109&oldid=155106 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
15:10:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155110&oldid=155109 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
15:14:56 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155111&oldid=155067 * Hotcrystal0 * (+459)
15:15:04 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155112&oldid=155111 * Hotcrystal0 * (-459)
15:28:06 <esolangs> [[Print("Hello, World!")]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155113&oldid=150655 * MihaiEso * (+118) /* Implementations */
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16:10:33 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155114&oldid=155112 * Hotcrystal0 * (+261)
16:10:51 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155115&oldid=155114 * Hotcrystal0 * (-261)
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16:17:43 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155116&oldid=155015 * Dhzb * (+168) /* Dexterimperae */
16:18:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155117&oldid=155088 * Hotcrystal0 * (+212) /* Signature */ new section
16:19:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155118&oldid=155117 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
16:20:21 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155119&oldid=155116 * Dhzb * (+87) /* Special operations */
16:20:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155120&oldid=155118 * Hotcrystal0 * (+126)
16:20:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155121&oldid=155120 * Hotcrystal0 * (-27)
16:21:00 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155122&oldid=155119 * Dhzb * (+44) /* Sinisterimperae */
16:22:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155123&oldid=155121 * Hotcrystal0 * (+35)
16:22:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155124&oldid=155123 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1)
16:23:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155125&oldid=155124 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2)
16:24:29 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155126&oldid=155125 * Hotcrystal0 * (-13)
16:26:07 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155127&oldid=155122 * Dhzb * (+52) /* Future additions */
16:29:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155128&oldid=155126 * Hotcrystal0 * (+278)
16:32:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155129&oldid=155110 * Hotcrystal0 * (+35)
16:34:25 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155130&oldid=155014 * Dhzb * (+101)
16:35:46 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155131&oldid=155127 * Dhzb * (+245)
16:37:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155132&oldid=154794 * Hotcrystal0 * (+296)
16:38:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155133&oldid=153523 * Corbin * (-32) Remove non-main-namespace article from main-namespace category.
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16:44:15 <esolangs> [[User:Unname4798]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155134&oldid=151221 * Hotcrystal0 * (+717) Adding more to the mirror
16:44:28 <esolangs> [[User:Unname4798]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155135&oldid=155134 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
16:50:35 <esolangs> [[W110]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155136&oldid=142529 * Corbin * (+624) Fix credits and explain what was done. This is a notorious case of plagiarism where we should thoughtfully avoid crediting the plagiarist.
16:50:46 <korvo> esolangs: Who proved that Rule 110 is Turing-complete?
16:51:14 <esolangs> korvo: Matthew Cook proved that Rule 110 is Turing-complete. He did this around 1998, after a legal battle with his employer. His proof involved demonstrating that Rule 110 could simulate a glider system, making it undecidable whether a given glider would appear.
16:51:35 <korvo> Ooh, that's satisfying.
16:52:05 <int-e> "He did this around 1998, after a legal battle with his employer."
16:52:28 <korvo> Yeah, I'm looking to see if I can find a reputable source with a tighter date.
16:53:37 <korvo> Also yeah, the bot got the causality slightly wrong. I'm told that Transformers don't really understand the ordering of words; it's yet another parameter which they only respect to a degree. If true, then very frustrating, since it means that implications are always coded incorrectly as bi-implications.
16:54:45 <int-e> https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4155086/wolfram-research-inc-v-cook/
16:56:17 <korvo> Haha, yeah, okay. I'm on-board with that.
16:58:59 <korvo> Nope, no good details there. But I can still cite it since it happened.
16:59:17 <int-e> TBH I can't even tell if that's the right Cook :P
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17:01:20 <int-e> Ah, this helps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Cook#Work_with_Stephen_Wolfram
17:04:37 <esolangs> [[W110]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155137&oldid=155136 * Corbin * (+250) Add another reference and rephrase for precision.
17:05:03 <korvo> Yeah. WP is being gentle to avoid getting sued, but here on the West Coast it's well-known that Wolfram is a plagiarist.
17:05:27 <korvo> The general understanding is that Wolfram wanted credit for everything his grad students did. Adjunctification but without a teaching load.
17:06:26 <korvo> As such, if there's anything in a Wolfram book like NKoS which isn't cited or credited, it's reasonable to assume that he plagiarized it from one of his employee-students, didn't pay them fairly, isn't going to credit them, and might well sue them for trying to publish honestly.
17:08:39 <int-e> I wasn't sure how the timeline fit together. Now I have a 1998 date for announcing the result, a 2000/2001 lawsuit, a 2002 book, and a 2004 paper, in a sequence that makes sense.
17:10:54 <korvo> Ah, yeah. And this is all over a decade after the mid-80s work that Wolfram *should* be credited for, like the Wolfram coding for the family that Rule 110 belongs.
17:14:10 <korvo> esolangs: Who proved that Rule 110 is Turing-complete?
17:14:39 <esolangs> korvo: Matthew Cook proved that Rule 110 is Turing-complete. He did so around 1998, after initially conjecturing its Turing-completeness in 1985. Cook's proof involved demonstrating that Rule 110 could simulate a glider system, where the outcome of a glider's movement is undecidable.
17:15:01 <korvo> Amazing! Even more wrong.
17:15:22 <korvo> Feel free to poke at this. I'm done editing for now, I think.
17:15:38 <int-e> I mean it's technically possible I guess? Cook turned 15 in 1985
17:16:02 <int-e> I don't interact with LLMs if I can help it.
17:19:05 <korvo> I gave consulting advice to a few RAG startups a few years ago. The biggest lesson I learned was that a RAG pipeline needs a good language model (which is expensive) and good input data (which requires work); this is also why most of those startups cratered.
17:19:41 <int-e> . o O ( I only use rags for cleaning. )
17:19:59 <int-e> (I did look up the acronym the other day.)
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17:25:53 <fizzie> I should probably stick the [LLM] prefix in the output per https://libera.chat/news/llm-etiquette -- and add some botloop avoidance to the general output format.
17:26:04 <fizzie> FTR, if the bot produces an answer in less than a minute, chances are there was no or very little esowiki sources involved in the response.
17:26:22 <fizzie> Though looks like for that query it has in fact generated "Rule 110 Turing complete" as the wiki search query, found the pages "Shorter code Burn", "W110", "CA-1" as a result, and fed all three articles in as-is since they were all short enough.
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18:17:00 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Debating]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155142&oldid=152540 * Ractangle * (-298) /* CONSUMOR BUILD */
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19:04:46 <korvo> https://gist.github.com/MostAwesomeDude/f31eff9e483a9e0223f14fb629c55755 I have made three conjectures, apparently.
19:05:00 <korvo> First one is "if it weren't for call/return — if it weren't for general recursion — we could compile to classic CPUs via superoptimization"
19:05:15 <korvo> Third one is "when we want to refine a function by choosing an algorithm which isn't going to overflow the stack at runtime, we can't do it merely by inspecting the function's structure and deterministically assigning a pile of loops to it"
19:11:29 <korvo> I don't know if I have a further point. I feel like I've sketched why Brand P, Brand A, and Brand F are different ways of building systems, and also why everything tends towards Brand A. I don't know if I have any interesting insights though. For all I know, it's all bunk.
20:26:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155145&oldid=155089 * Hotcrystal0 * (+398) /* Is there one? */ new section
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21:54:38 <ais523> <korvo> First one is "if it weren't for call/return — if it weren't for general recursion — we could compile to classic CPUs via superoptimization" ← I have noticed something similar with parsers; interior-recursion is the only grammar feature that can't be fully analyzed through brute-force analysing all possible situations
21:54:54 <ais523> (where interior-recursion refers to a use of recursion that is neither head-recursion nor tail-recursion)
21:58:25 <ais523> I wonder whether head-recursion optimisation works in general-purpose languages, or just parsers – the idea is that if a subprogram starts with a conditional recursive call to itself, you can first unconditionally run the case in which the recursive call didn't happen, and then check the condition
21:58:27 <shachaf> Hmm, I've never seen the phrase "head-recursion" before.
21:58:55 <ais523> just like tail-recursion optimisation, it changes recursion to iteration
21:59:16 <shachaf> If it's conditional I'm not sure I'd call it head position exactly. But maybe it's close enough.
21:59:24 <ais523> shachaf: I think I may have coined the phrase, although it's an obvious parallel to tail-recursion
21:59:36 <ais523> well, it has to be conditional because otherwise you get an infinite loop
22:00:20 <shachaf> Right, but unlike tail recursion, that really does move it out of head position.
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22:00:39 <korvo> ais523: Interesting. IIUC interior-recursion is *not* covered by the symmetry of recursion, but that could be because I didn't try very hard.
22:01:14 <korvo> Like, suppose a loop takes n+m iterations; we should be able to split it into an n-iteration loop followed by an m-iteration loop. And that corresponds to breaking apart a composite endomorphism.
22:01:17 <ais523> let's see – we're replacing f() { if(x) f() else g; h; } with f() { g; while (was x) h; }
22:01:38 <ais523> ah, I see, the difference is in the timing of when the condition is evaluated
22:01:52 <ais523> and in particular it needs to evaluate to something different at each recursive level, to prevent an infinite loop
22:02:26 <ais523> the reason this works so well in parsers is that in parsers, x is a statement about what will happen in the future, and so actually evaluating it in the future is easier than evaluating it immediately
22:02:44 <shachaf> Hmm, what's a good concrete example for a parser?
22:03:09 <ais523> shachaf: so for parsing additions, you have a rule like expr ::= int | expr + int
22:03:32 <shachaf> Right, I was imagining it's for a left-recursive grammar sort of thing.
22:03:48 <ais523> and this conceptually expands to a function "try a recursive call, if it fails, parse an integer, if it succeeds, parse that plus an integer"
22:03:57 <ais523> but that definition requires backtracking which you want to optimize out
22:04:20 <shachaf> Well, the completely naive thing here just recurses infinitely, right?
22:04:24 <ais523> and the way you optimize it is by parsing the integer first, then looping parsing the additional integers that are added
22:04:31 <ais523> shachaf: if completely naive, yes
22:04:46 <ais523> in the underlying mathematical model it doesn't, but that makes it hard to translate the model into a program directly
22:04:50 <shachaf> What's the backtracking version you're thinking of?
22:05:21 <ais523> hmm, I guess you have some limit on "the input must have this many tokens for the parse to succeed" – then the backtracking works
22:05:42 <ais523> like, once you have 20 recursive calls the input has to have at least 41 tokens for the parse to be possible, you can use that to interrupt the recursion
22:06:39 <shachaf> I think parse_expr() { left = parse_int(); while (consume("+")) { left = left + parse_int(); } } is very natural, but I would normally think of it as a translation of a left-factored grammar, or something.
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22:07:01 <ais523> shachaf: right, that's the transformation I'm talking about
22:07:17 <ais523> but it's interesting because it's basically optimising a program that would be an infinite loop if compiled naively, into a program that runs correctly
22:07:31 <shachaf> Rather than as an optimization of a head-recursive function.
22:07:37 <shachaf> I'm not sure I'd call that an optimization!
22:07:57 <ais523> I think it's an optimization, but I think it's an optimization in a different semantics from the one used for normal programming languages
22:08:09 <ais523> imagine a Prolog in which an infinite loop is a failure – I think it works in that
22:08:58 <ais523> in a sense, the parser is trying to find all possible parses, the ones that go into an infinite loop aren't possible parses so we aren't trying to find them and can optimize them out
22:09:00 <shachaf> Wait, so what's the head-recursive code you would write for this? Is that in normal programming language semantics or in this other semantics?
22:09:23 <ais523> shachaf: it's in the abnormal semantics – I noticed it when working on parser theory
22:09:36 <ais523> where the optimisation is a correct one, because of the semantics being different
22:10:04 <ais523> and I was wondering whether it would work in normal languages too; and the answer seems to be "no, because in those languages you can't treat an infinite loop as equivalent to an exception"
22:10:23 <shachaf> It's interesting that the left-recursive grammar can be parsed n constant space but the right-recursive grammar needs linear space.
22:11:05 <ais523> LL(k) and LR(k) are well known classes of grammar, but I like to think of a third, LLL(k), which is LL(k) except that left-recursion is changed into iteration in order to get around this specific problem
22:11:38 <ais523> in a way, the reason that LL(k) doesn't handle left-recursion is that the semantics of the LL(k) virtual machine don't match the semantics of context-free grammars in that specific way
22:12:08 <shachaf> How is an LLL(k) grammar defined?
22:13:22 <ais523> it's basically "whenever you have to make a decision other than the number of times to make a left-recursive call before continuing, you must be able to make it by looking at the next k symbols; whenever you have a decision about the nubmer of times to make a left-recursive call before continuing, you must be able to choose 0 or >0 within k symbols, but do not need to choose the exact value"
22:14:03 <ais523> it is a little hard to express precisely, I don't think I got it quite precise there
22:17:49 <b_jonas> nice, I haven't heard of LLL before I think
22:18:27 <zzo38> About https://gist.github.com/MostAwesomeDude/f31eff9e483a9e0223f14fb629c55755 it says "A Brand P system generally maps syntax to machine operations. As such, there is no way to reorder or shuffle around syntax without also reordering the encoded operations." However, some assembly langauges might have commands to specify start at different addresses and then go back.
22:29:16 <b_jonas> I thought of a very stupid pun because of the Tetris the Grand Master 4 release. So you know I've been thinking for a while of the hypothetical tetris game that you control by pressing one of ten horizontal position keys (home row) and one of eight rotation keys (above home row)? There are three input modes for it. In mode 2, the piece is locked when you release all keys – usually this is two keys,
22:29:22 <b_jonas> but in simpler cases you can press just one key if you know it will do the right thing, or it can be three keys if you have to tuck a piece under another one. In mode 1, the piece is locked when you have released all keys and you have typed both a position key and a rotation key – you can press the keys one after another or simultaneously. In mode 0, the piece is locked only when you release the
22:29:28 <b_jonas> confirm key (space), which helps when you're not yet comfortable with the controls because it lets you preview where the piece will go before you commit. For a while I didn't know what to name these modes, but today I figured it out. Mode 2 is "chord mode" because pressing multiple keys simultaneously is called a "chord" by analogy with the piano; mode 1 is "coord mode" because you must give both
22:29:34 <b_jonas> coordinates, mode 0 is "cord mode" because the piece drops when you allow it by removing the velvet rope at the entrance of the fancy building.
22:30:21 <b_jonas> (I guess I should spell mode 1 as "coörd mode" on this channel.)
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22:36:00 <zzo38> Even though it is confusing, I think that will do.
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23:16:44 <korvo> zzo38: Sure, I'm talking more about the ISA than about the assembler's meta-syntax and directives. I have seen e.g. script-driven assemblers and table-driven assemblers, and I agree with you that some of them are definitely Brand A systems in terms of complexity.
23:26:46 <ais523> korvo: it is crossing my mind that the program/algorithm distinction probably depends on what the compilation is targeting
23:27:17 <ais523> the distinction between a program and an algorithm is that a program does not have symmetries that are not also present in the compilation target
23:27:49 <ais523> …also this implies that an interpreter can't be a program in your sense, unless there is only one possible way to write the interpreter
23:29:00 <ais523> on a different but related topic, I have been considering a language which allows directives that specify what implementation of something to use, in cases where the language specification allows multiple implementations
23:29:16 <ais523> i.e. the symmetries can be explicitly broken by the programmer, but the compiler chooses one if they aren't
23:30:58 <ais523> as a simple example, to convert SSA to machine code you have to pick an explicit order for the operations – but the processor converts it back to SSA again internally and runs the operations in parallel (as long as none of them write to memory and you don't have so many that the reorder buffer overflows)
23:31:18 <ais523> (assuming a modern high-end processor, that is)
23:31:40 <zzo38> The CROSS JOIN command in SQLite forces the order to be what is specified, but JOIN by itself allows the query optimizer to change the order.
23:34:36 <zzo38> (There is also INDEXED BY command, to force it to use a specified index, instead of deciding automatically what index to use.)
23:48:02 <korvo> ais523: Oh, yeah, if we're getting to like high-level moral suggestions then I'm thinking that there's still more work to do.
23:48:56 <korvo> I would love to say something simple like "use Brand X" but I'm not sure that that's a coherent approach. I suspect it's more like "Brand P is inevitable, Brand F is ideal, Brand A is what we keep making"
23:49:08 <korvo> Which leads to questions like "so why do we keep ending up with Brand A"
23:50:05 <ais523> because there are lots of things that are easy to express using algorithms but hard to express using functions
23:50:22 <korvo> ais523: Oh, another example is GHC's strictification analysis. Idiomatic Haskell starts out with one ordering, but then it's lost when lowering to Core, and GHC recovers an equivalent ordering later on.
23:50:28 <ais523> and a compilation from functions to programs is likely to go via algorithms, and those features are so easy to add at that stage
23:51:38 <ais523> just look at something ilke Haskell unsafePerformIO, the semantics are hard to specify, and may cause symmetry-resolutions to be observable and thus cause the functions to not be actual functions, but it's easy to implement and so it exists
23:52:11 <korvo> And the only folks who stick with functions are the type theorists whose theories might not have nice computational analogues of beta-reduction, e.g. in homotopy and cubical type theories.
23:52:11 <ais523> for almost everyone, practicality will triumph over theoretical purity, despite the theoretical benefits from being pure
23:52:20 <ais523> if you don't care about practicality then you are either a type theorist or an exolanger
23:52:50 <korvo> Ha, yeah. By zero coincidence, when I read through Coq's extraction to Haskell, I noted that it leans on GHC-specific unsafe IO.
23:54:08 <ais523> now, I think there is a big actual practical benefit from moving towards languages where the input is a true function – it makes it much easier to define whether or not an optimisation is sound
23:54:23 <ais523> and also makes notions of program correctness easier to specify
23:54:37 <ais523> but, I think for most people the benefit isn't worth the cost
23:55:09 <korvo> ais523: Oh, my second conjecture got eaten by my IRC client, and it's good too: "We can still superoptimize each basic block without worry, though." Like, I think that if we remove call/return instructions, we *can* meaningfully find optimal programs. I might go beyond that and suggest that some basic control flow can be superoptimized too.
23:55:59 <ais523> korvo: I believe that's trivially provable (for some types of language) via expressing the basic block as a finite state machine
23:56:36 <ais523> in fact, this implies that the problematic constructions are precisely those that allow for unbounded storage
23:56:37 <korvo> Yeah. I don't think they're hard conjectures. I'm not a magic visionary; I'm just going through Yanofsky's papers and finding so many gems.
23:56:48 <ais523> thinking about it, recursion on its own can't be the only problem because you can simulate it using iteration and a manual stack
23:57:11 <ais523> so if recursion blocks some nice property, iteration + a manual stack must also block it
23:57:23 <ais523> and I think the offender here is actually the manual stack, due to being unbounded
23:58:05 <korvo> Recursion is only making it difficult to determine whether two programs/algorithms are equivalent. There's still obvious homomorphisms.
23:58:31 <korvo> They're just not very good. Like, they can't even promise that the stack won't overflow.
23:59:22 <ais523> (on a side note, I *hate* the way that programming languages try to limit stack use, in preference to using the heap for big recursions – this seems to me to be arbitrarily inefficient, if a program is best expressed using the stack then doing that is both clearer and theoretically more efficient, and it should be the language implementation's responsibility to simulate as much stack as you need)
00:00:16 <korvo> (Right. See e.g. GHC Haskell putting the *pattern-matching stack* onto the hardware stack and ignoring the intended call/return usage in favor of using the heap for all objects.)
00:00:17 <ais523> traditionally memory maps had the stack and heap at opposite ends of virtual memory, growing towards each other, so a program could balance stack versus heap usage as much as it needed to
00:05:24 <korvo> Now I'm thinking about defunctionalization. Anything to avoid real work, I guess.
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00:26:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155148&oldid=155145 * I am islptng * (+661) /* Is there one? */
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00:50:44 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Master5o1 * New user account
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01:18:17 <esolangs> [[Dick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155156&oldid=128175 * Master5o1 * (+107) add link to zsh implementation.
01:20:05 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155157&oldid=155153 * PrySigneToFry * (-87)
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02:45:16 <zzo38> The uxn has two stacks that you can mostly use for whatever purpose you want, although the JCI and JSI instructions require the use of specific stacks, so it is expected that the second stack (affected by JSI) is used for subroutine calls, and that JMP2r is used to return from a subroutine call. Everything except JCI and JSI can use either stack and need the same number of bytes of code either way.
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03:05:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * PrySigneToFry * moved [[User talk:I am islptng/Sandbox]] to [[User talk:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]]: Redirect to new sandbox
03:07:16 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155162&oldid=155159 * PrySigneToFry * (-34)
03:41:39 <zzo38> Earlier in library I had read an article about reversible computing, that it would use less power than most computers.
03:41:56 <esolangs> [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155163&oldid=154920 * H33T33 * (+39)
03:49:32 <esolangs> [[L-system]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155164&oldid=155013 * Stkptr * (+61)
04:59:02 <zzo38> (Maybe it would be possible to make a kind of hybrid computer, so that it can include reversible and non-reversible programs, or reversible and non-reversible parts of programs. ChaCha20 has reversible and non-reversible parts, I think; it is mainly reversible but they add back the original values to the final values to make it difficult to reverse.)
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05:12:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155166&oldid=155165 * I am islptng * (+52) /* Is there one? */
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06:52:33 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155167 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+92) Created page with "{{stub}}{{wip}} Pseudocode is a programming language based on American textbook pseudocode,"
06:52:44 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155168&oldid=155167 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
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07:05:55 <esolangs> [[EnGLish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155171&oldid=120616 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+18)
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07:47:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Braindrunk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155172&oldid=154694 * None1 * (+416) /* How many chance will the classic output "Hello, world!"? */
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09:19:56 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155173&oldid=155091 * 5anz * (+79) /* Triangles */
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09:35:06 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155175&oldid=155173 * 5anz * (+36) /* Syntax + How it works */
09:35:15 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155176&oldid=155175 * 5anz * (+1) /* Syntax + How it works */
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10:10:18 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155178&oldid=155170 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+205)
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10:33:02 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155180&oldid=154281 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-669)
10:37:42 <Sgeo> I glanced "amazing" in the scrollback and tried to find it again
10:40:06 <int-e> an "amazing" return
10:51:14 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155181&oldid=155180 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+66) /* Derivative Ideas */
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11:06:22 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155182 * Tpaefawzen * (+893) Created page with "'''''', also known as '''ClassicMusicTheoryForProgrammer''' [sic] is an esoteric programming language developed by GitHub user [https://github.com/lv100tomato lv100tomato] since 2019. The language https://github.com/hakatashi/esolang-battle/wiki/%E7%AC%AC6%E5%9B%9E%E6%9D%
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11:24:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zopium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155183&oldid=153878 * PrySigneToFry * (+1024)
11:27:57 <esolangs> [[Yugoslavic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155184&oldid=154359 * PrySigneToFry * (+51)
11:29:18 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155185&oldid=155177 * PrySigneToFry * (+10)
11:57:13 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155186&oldid=155182 * Tpaefawzen * (+4)
11:58:13 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155187&oldid=155186 * Tpaefawzen * (+72) /* External Resources */
12:16:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155188&oldid=155140 * Gilbert189 * (+736)
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12:49:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155189&oldid=115998 * Cycwin * (+239) /* hmmm */ new section
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13:37:49 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155190&oldid=155185 * PrySigneToFry * (+135)
13:38:56 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155191&oldid=155190 * PrySigneToFry * (+6)
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14:42:14 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155192 * PrySigneToFry * (+30) Created page with "This is my alternated sandbox."
14:43:29 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155193&oldid=155027 * PrySigneToFry * (+64)
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14:57:43 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155194&oldid=155062 * JIT * (+23)
14:58:14 <esolangs> [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155195&oldid=155194 * JIT * (+0)
15:01:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zopium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155196&oldid=155183 * Zopium * (+153) /* Quote */
15:05:29 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155197&oldid=155099 * PrySigneToFry * (+14)
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15:29:42 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155198&oldid=155197 * PrySigneToFry * (+370)
16:30:28 <esolangs> [[Begunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155199 * JIT * (+867) Created page with "I made a typo for chatgpt to test it for ''[[Befunge]]'' and I typed ''Begunge'' instead! ==Begunge== ===This program prints "Turtles aren't Tsunami"=== v < >0"eilT"v >0"tsur"v >0"aneT"v >0"sumi"v >0"anuT"v >0"tsu"v >0"mi"v
17:42:18 <esolangs> [[SETANDCOUNT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155200&oldid=154684 * Stkptr * (+1770) I do not understand this language at all
17:47:45 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155201&oldid=155176 * 5anz * (+247) /* Hello, World! */
17:48:05 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155202&oldid=155201 * 5anz * (+3)
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20:14:25 <Cuboid> what would you say is the hardest esolang to write in
20:15:33 <korvo> Cuboid: They can get arbitrarily hard. Bubblegum is an example; practical usage requires attacking SHA-256.
20:15:59 <korvo> If you're looking for something to learn, check out Brainfuck or Thue.
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20:41:29 <esolangs> [[Coral (zyBooks)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155203 * Stkptr * (+5644) Create page
20:44:12 <esolangs> [[Coral (zyBooks)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155204&oldid=155203 * Stkptr * (+67)
20:44:28 <esolangs> [[Coral (zyBooks)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155205&oldid=155204 * Stkptr * (+12)
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21:10:04 <esolangs> [[Coral (Python)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155206 * Stkptr * (+1337) Create
21:21:55 <esolangs> [[Coral]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155207 * Stkptr * (+308) Created page with "Coral may refer to any of the following languages: * [[Coral (zyBooks)]] an educational programming language with 3-space indents * [[Coral (Python)]] a gradually typed compiled subset of Python * [[wikipedia:Coral 66|Coral 66 (Wikipedia)]] an language based on ALGOL used
21:22:52 <esolangs> [[Coral]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155208&oldid=155207 * Stkptr * (+14)
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21:40:45 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155209&oldid=155130 * Dhzb * (+35)
21:50:26 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155210&oldid=155209 * Dhzb * (+2) Fixed the mistake
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22:09:47 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155211&oldid=155131 * Dhzb * (+56) /* Future additions */
22:10:40 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155212&oldid=155211 * Dhzb * (+20) /* Computational class */
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22:13:10 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155213&oldid=155212 * Dhzb * (+97) /* Data storage */
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22:38:18 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155214&oldid=155210 * Dhzb * (+52) /* Brainfuck interpreter */
22:39:12 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155215&oldid=155214 * Dhzb * (+33) /* This thing */
22:40:04 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155216&oldid=155213 * Dhzb * (+10) /* Future additions */
22:41:07 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155217&oldid=155216 * Dhzb * (+28) /* Future additions */
22:47:03 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155218&oldid=155217 * Dhzb * (+199) /* Dexterimperae */
22:48:55 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155219&oldid=155218 * Dhzb * (+65) /* Sinisterimperae */
22:50:07 <esolangs> [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155220&oldid=155219 * Dhzb * (+35) /* Special operations */
22:50:33 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155221&oldid=155215 * Dhzb * (+4) /* Hello world */
22:50:48 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155222&oldid=155221 * Dhzb * (+4) /* Truth machine */
22:51:08 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155223&oldid=155222 * Dhzb * (+4) /* Cat */
22:51:28 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155224&oldid=155223 * Dhzb * (+4) /* String sum */
22:51:59 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155225&oldid=155224 * Dhzb * (+4) /* Display color */
22:54:11 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155226&oldid=155225 * Dhzb * (+19)
22:55:35 <esolangs> [[Moed/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155227&oldid=155226 * Dhzb * (+3) /* ASCII compressor */
22:57:27 <esolangs> [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155228&oldid=155220 * Dhzb * (+17) /* Moed-A2 */
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23:10:21 <esolangs> [[User:Dhzb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155229&oldid=154892 * Dhzb * (+100)
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23:50:32 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155230&oldid=154724 * Tpaefawzen * (+712)
23:54:31 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155231&oldid=155230 * Tpaefawzen * (+186) /* History */
23:56:09 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155232&oldid=155231 * Tpaefawzen * (+33) /* History */
23:59:38 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155233&oldid=155232 * Tpaefawzen * (+69)
00:04:50 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155234&oldid=155233 * Tpaefawzen * (+175) /* History */
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01:40:29 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155235&oldid=155191 * PrySigneToFry * (+1)
01:53:46 <esolangs> [[Ppencode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155236&oldid=92272 * Tpaefawzen * (+780)
01:56:48 <esolangs> [[Ppencode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155237&oldid=155236 * Tpaefawzen * (+577) /* Syntax */
01:57:46 <esolangs> [[Ppencode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155238&oldid=155237 * Tpaefawzen * (+8) /* Detailed syntax */
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02:15:57 <esolangs> [[Signals]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155239&oldid=154532 * Stkptr * (+330)
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03:05:39 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155240 * Tpaefawzen * (+1354) Created page with "'''POSIX''' (POSIX fundamentalism), also known as '''POSIXism''', or in more wide context '''POSIX''' (POSIX Centralism) is a software development method. Its intension is to make a sustainable and portable software using just POSIX-compatible shellscript with utiliti
03:06:23 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155241&oldid=155240 * Tpaefawzen * (+8) Wikipedia
03:09:07 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155242&oldid=155054 * PrySigneToFry * (+4)
03:09:32 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155243&oldid=155241 * Tpaefawzen * (+143) /* Prehistory */
03:12:55 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155244&oldid=155243 * Tpaefawzen * (+267) /* Prehistory */
03:16:25 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155245&oldid=155244 * Tpaefawzen * (+360) /* Prehistory */
03:17:42 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155246&oldid=155245 * Tpaefawzen * (+37) /* History */
03:21:16 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155247&oldid=155246 * Tpaefawzen * (+283)
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03:24:48 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155248&oldid=155247 * Tpaefawzen * (+156)
03:25:46 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155249&oldid=155248 * Tpaefawzen * (+74) /* External Resources */
03:36:23 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155250&oldid=155249 * Tpaefawzen * (+1001) /* Coding style */
03:37:52 <esolangs> [[POSIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155251&oldid=155250 * Tpaefawzen * (+94) /* Web programming */
03:46:26 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155252 * Tpaefawzen * (+461) Created page with "'''''' (Unicage development method) or simply '''''' ('''Unicage''') is a software development method by USP (Universal Shell Programming Laboratory). With the method it is said that non-programmers can development business systems from scratch with shellscript. * [https://
03:47:12 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155253&oldid=155252 * Tpaefawzen * (+110)
03:48:15 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155254&oldid=155198 * PrySigneToFry * (+159)
03:49:53 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155255&oldid=155187 * Tpaefawzen * (+96) /* External Resources */
04:04:13 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155256&oldid=155255 * Tpaefawzen * (+479)
04:12:53 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155257&oldid=155256 * Tpaefawzen * (+391) /* Specification */
04:13:27 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155258&oldid=155257 * Tpaefawzen * (+4)
04:21:56 <esolangs> [[CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155259&oldid=154497 * PrySigneToFry * (+59)
04:22:14 <esolangs> [[CAPI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155260&oldid=155259 * PrySigneToFry * (+1)
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04:45:43 <esolangs> [[BubbleSort]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155261 * Tpaefawzen * (+955) Commands and semantics
04:49:30 <esolangs> [[BubbleSort]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155262&oldid=155261 * Tpaefawzen * (+24) /* Specification */
05:01:14 <ais523> suppose I have a machine with multiple stacks and a finite state machine for control flow purposes, that can read input – but it can only push to or pop from the stacks as it reads a byte of input
05:01:24 <ais523> is that LBA-complete or are there some LBAs it can't emulate?
05:01:32 <ais523> (obviously it isn't TC because once all the input has been read, it has finite memory)
05:06:03 <ais523> it feels like it's less powerful but that's hard to prove – and yet it's clearly more powerful than a PDA
05:11:07 <esolangs> [[BubbleSort]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155263&oldid=155262 * Tpaefawzen * (+31)
05:11:09 <esolangs> [[Smallest universal function]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155264 * Stkptr * (+7556) Create page
05:12:43 <esolangs> [[Smallest universal function]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155265&oldid=155264 * Ais523 * (+45) /* x86 machine code */ clarify why the MiniMAX length is a range rather than a single number
05:14:19 <esolangs> [[Smallest universal function]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155266&oldid=155265 * Ais523 * (+139) /* External resources */ link the CGCC page about golfing universal functions
05:20:42 <esolangs> [[Translated ZhongWen/PSTF Again Chapter VIII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155267&oldid=151838 * PrySigneToFry * (+1653)
05:39:22 <esolangs> [[Grill Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155268&oldid=126388 * Ais523 * (+33) /* Alternative definitions */ fix a minor mistake in the definition
06:26:22 <esolangs> [[Tskastic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155269&oldid=155052 * PrySigneToFry * (+1)
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07:34:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155270&oldid=153699 * I am islptng * (+650)
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08:14:39 <esolangs> [[Ppencode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155271&oldid=155238 * Tpaefawzen * (+179) /* Links */
08:34:50 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155272&oldid=155254 * PrySigneToFry * (+305)
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10:35:52 <APic> ais523: I did not even know the Abbreviation LBA for „Linear Bounded Automaton“ yet (‑ just „Logical Block Addressing“. Thanks for Broadening my Horizons 😉
10:44:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155273&oldid=155270 * I am islptng * (-650) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/155270|155270]] by [[Special:Contributions/I am islptng|I am islptng]] ([[User talk:I am islptng|talk]])
10:47:54 <b_jonas> APic: doesn't LBA mean "linear block addressing" because it's just one number instead of three separate numbers for cylinder, head, sector?
10:48:55 <int-e> this reminds me that I never got the hang of Little Big Adventure
11:22:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Joachim * New user account
11:37:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155274&oldid=155155 * Joachim * (+205) /* Introductions */
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12:14:19 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155275 * None1 * (+726) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''bftree''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]], which uses an unrooted tree instead of a tape. ==Tree== The tree has nodes, which contain a node number and value. The node number is only used for pointer movement. The tree is defined using this syntax
12:16:18 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155276&oldid=155275 * None1 * (+262)
12:16:32 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155277&oldid=155276 * None1 * (-1)
12:18:17 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155278&oldid=155277 * None1 * (+248)
12:47:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155279&oldid=155166 * Cycwin * (+588) /* Is there one? */
12:49:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155280&oldid=155279 * Cycwin * (+6) /* Is there one? */
12:57:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155281&oldid=155129 * Cycwin * (+184) /* Where are you from, and how can you understand Chinese? */
13:20:36 <esolangs> [[Haifu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155282&oldid=108656 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+9)
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15:55:58 <esolangs> [[MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155283&oldid=155087 * Stkptr * (+1405) 3-cell brainfuck
16:03:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155284&oldid=154996 * Stkptr * (+42)
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16:27:15 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155285 * Joachim * (+7116) Undyne Programming Language
16:31:05 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155286&oldid=155179 * Joachim * (+34) /* U */
16:43:19 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155287&oldid=155285 * Joachim * (+3) /* Arrows creation */
16:44:37 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155288&oldid=155287 * Joachim * (+4) /* Program execution */
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22:14:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Randumbtoons * New user account
22:28:29 <esolangs> [[WYSIWISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155289&oldid=153873 * Alikberoff * (+43)
22:46:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155290&oldid=155281 * Hotcrystal0 * (+327)
23:14:44 <esolangs> [[E62qpodb593]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155291&oldid=76750 * Stkptr * (+43)
23:14:53 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/WIP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155292 * I am islptng * (+1589) Created page with "[https://tio.run/##pVfNbuM2EL7rKSYKilqO7MROm2aNqpe2h70EC@zeFoEhS5RNRCJVkWriLvbQW5@hT1H0v9c@yr5IOiT1Q8pyUrQ@JNbMN6NvfkmXe7nj7PLx8RRu6mJDqnm59069U3i9L17tgQqQnEPCizInD5DxCoo9MEJScYKgV9r6YwGbmuZyRhmkJKFFnMMuNpZFneygrFAqKGeQc6EN3@xIRdAbgZdwX3FJlFt@z4BpEpDk
23:16:32 <esolangs> [[Compaline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155293&oldid=126050 * Stkptr * (+25) It would probably be TC, but underspecified
23:19:02 <esolangs> [[EmojiStack/Codepage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155294&oldid=100222 * Stkptr * (+24)
23:22:27 <esolangs> [[Delambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155295&oldid=102350 * Stkptr * (+86)
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23:37:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155296&oldid=155284 * I am islptng * (+675)
23:37:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155297&oldid=155296 * I am islptng * (-42)
00:09:08 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/WIP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155298&oldid=155292 * I am islptng * (-114)
00:44:32 <esolangs> [[Foldy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155299&oldid=154471 * Squareroot12621 * (+23) Add <noinclude> to the comment inside the link
00:49:16 <esolangs> [[Foldy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155300&oldid=155299 * Squareroot12621 * (-23) Revert; it didn't do anything
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01:23:35 <b_jonas> ais523: I also think that that's less powerful than a full linear bounded automaton, but I don't have a proof
02:41:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * WhatToUseThisFor * New user account
03:06:06 <zzo38> Due to their keep changing some things in the formatting of Magic: the Gathering rules, I had to update my program for converting to HTML; this last time, the heading for rule 505 was incorrectly not copied due to a blank line containing a space before it, but I fixed that now.
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04:56:53 <esolangs> [[StormScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155301&oldid=153655 * I am islptng * (+2016)
05:00:00 <korvo> Thinkin' about Owner-Free File System again. This time I'm thinking of how it might interact with a Gödel machine; such a machine might learn OFFS blocks which are efficient, useful, or otherwise common.
05:00:55 <korvo> I probably should get at least one (1) thing off my plate first though.
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05:44:43 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155302&oldid=154638 * Gilbert189 * (+2028) The Musical Update
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08:40:28 <wib_jonas> ais523: a linear-bounded automaton can solve a SAT instance by iterating through every solution and checking them. a multi-stack machine without null state changes that you mentioned can be evaluated in linear time in the input. so if they were equally powerful that would imply P=NP. This is probably an overkill argument and there's one that
08:40:29 <wib_jonas> doesn't depend on such a conjecture, but I think it's at least a heuristic.
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09:34:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Harlanward * New user account
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10:29:07 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155303 * C++DSUCKER * (+567) Created page with "== Definition == +X means increment the X register -Yn means if the Y register is nonzero, Decrement it and jump to n all the below tables are for 2 registers A and B. also, if there are multiple programs with the same time we only list one. ==
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10:40:22 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155304&oldid=155303 * C++DSUCKER * (+0)
10:58:43 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155305&oldid=155304 * C++DSUCKER * (+269)
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11:50:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:GUAqwq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155306&oldid=155189 * GUAqwq * (+181) /* hmmm */
11:51:12 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155307&oldid=155305 * C++DSUCKER * (+79) /* Unconfirmed */
11:55:28 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155308&oldid=155307 * C++DSUCKER * (+37)
12:08:38 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155309&oldid=155302 * PrySigneToFry * (+1145)
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12:41:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:MSFE++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155310&oldid=155297 * Cycwin * (+24)
12:43:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155311&oldid=155273 * Cycwin * (+113) /* Thanks */ new section
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14:07:07 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155312&oldid=154639 * Hotcrystal0 * (+34)
14:08:17 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155313&oldid=155312 * Hotcrystal0 * (+37)
14:11:10 <esolangs> [[Argh!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155314&oldid=142525 * 5anz * (+0) /* Examples */
14:34:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155315&oldid=155151 * Hotcrystal0 * (+430) /* Chess */ new section
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14:44:35 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155316&oldid=155115 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) capitalization fix
14:53:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155317&oldid=155315 * Hotcrystal0 * (+294)
14:53:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155318&oldid=155317 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
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16:45:15 <korvo> b_jonas: That's an elegant argument. Nice.
16:55:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aramya * New user account
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17:49:58 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155319&oldid=155288 * Joachim * (+1) /* Display */
17:53:35 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155320&oldid=155319 * Joachim * (-108) /* Program execution */
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17:56:44 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155321&oldid=155320 * Joachim * (+56) /* Display */
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18:01:32 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155322&oldid=155321 * Joachim * (+1) /* i */
18:02:07 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155323&oldid=155322 * Joachim * (+2) /* Display */
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20:11:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155324&oldid=155274 * WhatToUseThisFor * (+66)
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20:33:21 <ais523> is quadratic-time known to be more powerful than linear-time? if so, then even P=NP wouldn't prevent a linear-time program being unable to solve SAT
20:34:36 <int-e> Linear and quadratic time on what formalism? (sorting in the RAM model comes to mind)
20:34:48 <int-e> comparison-based that is
20:34:55 <ais523> oh, good point – the model matters when it's linear versus quadratic
20:35:55 <ais523> this is a multiple-stack model (which is similar to a multitape Turing machine model but you can add and delete tape elements in addition to changing them)
20:41:13 <ais523> I guess I could call this the Esimpl model – I think it's the same performance up to amortization and constant factors (two stacks can simulate a queue in amortized linear time)
20:54:19 <b_jonas> linear vs quadratic can also matter on what specific NP-complete problem you choose and how it's encoded.
20:54:35 <b_jonas> ah, you're saying SAT specifically
20:56:39 <b_jonas> but anyway, yes, it's because linear time is such a strong restriction why I expect that your question can be answered even without knowing P!=NP
20:57:07 <ais523> I'm not convinced that this model is even linear-time-complete
20:57:21 <ais523> (the stack machine that can only do stack manipulation as it reads input)
20:57:21 <b_jonas> because I think the complexity theorists know some problems that can be solved in exponential time but not in linear time, or something like that, and you could exploit that here
20:57:42 <b_jonas> sure, we don't need it linear time complete, and it probably isn't
20:58:35 <b_jonas> my original thought was basically that you give a problem encoded with a block cipher and give the short symmetric key at the very end of the problem description, then the no null transitions multi-stack machine has very little time to decode the problem
20:58:55 <ais523> you can find the median of an array in linear time, right? but I can't see how to do that with the stack-operations-when-reading machine
20:59:01 <b_jonas> but that doesn't work directly when you're asking about asymptotics
20:59:15 <b_jonas> since a block cipher with fixed size can be solved by a huge finite state machine
21:12:42 <b_jonas> like if you know how to solve the original problem with an machine with P stacks and N states, and there are 2↑256 possible block cipher keys, then solve the ciphered problem by simulating 2↑256 copies of that multi-stack machine (plus the state of the cipher) with a giant multi-stack machine that has 2↑256·P stacks and (N·C)↑(2↑256) states where C is the number of states of the cipher
21:13:56 <int-e> ais523: 2N tapes can simulate N stacks and 2N stacks can simulate N tapes, right? :)
21:14:11 <int-e> N tapes can simulate N stacks
21:19:06 <b_jonas> ais523: hold on, you are requiring your multi-stack machine without null transitions to be deterministic, right?
21:19:45 <ais523> b_jonas: yes, although interestingly I came across this while trying to solve a problem that involved NPDAs
21:19:53 <ais523> so the nondeterministic case might be interesting
21:20:15 <ais523> (fwiw I no longer think it's the right solution, so it's just a curiosity more than something that's the right answer)
21:20:39 <b_jonas> I asked because my simple heuristic doesn't work if it can be nondeterministic
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21:46:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/Colon three]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155325 * I am islptng * (+46) Where's the U-turner?
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22:33:05 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Unknown computational class]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155326&oldid=138372 * 5anz * (+306)
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23:02:11 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155327&oldid=155234 * Tpaefawzen * (+60)
23:11:11 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155328&oldid=155327 * Tpaefawzen * (+40) /* Implementation */
00:02:18 <esolangs> [[TypoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155329&oldid=154196 * Ps4 is good * (+23)
00:02:45 <esolangs> [[TypoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155330&oldid=155329 * Ps4 is good * (+27)
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00:03:14 <esolangs> [[TypoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155331&oldid=155330 * Ps4 is good * (+0)
00:03:35 <esolangs> [[TypoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155332&oldid=155331 * Ps4 is good * (+0)
00:04:31 <esolangs> [[TypoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155333&oldid=155332 * Ps4 is good * (-27)
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00:48:11 <esolangs> [[APLASYOFFW]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155334 * Ps4 is good * (+529) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=A Programming Language About a Sixteen Year Old Fast Food Worker (AKA APLASYOFFW) |author=Ps4 is good |year=2025 |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] }} '''APLASYOFFW''' is an acronym for '''A Programming Language About a
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04:02:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:257-wrap brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155335 * L4.m2 * (+393) Created page with "== Why the 3rd difference? == IMO it only makes thing more complex, and a cat should have been <Pre> -.+[-.[-]-.+] </Pre> Variants where only -1 is falsy, or every ASCII value is shifted by 1, can exist. Maybe I'd later add them to esolangs.org. If anyt
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07:08:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dhzb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155336&oldid=155229 * Dhzb * (+54)
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07:49:27 <esolangs> [[PolishScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155337 * Dhzb * (+225) Created page with "A language where everything is in [[polish notation]] <pre> =fib:(num n) ; =a 0 ; =b 1 ; =c 0 +a*n:(num i) ; =c+a b ; =a b =b c [num]arr [num]arr =main:([str]arr args) ; (,(,(,10)fib)arrtostr)print 0 num </pre>"
07:55:10 <esolangs> [[User:Dhzb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155338&oldid=155336 * Dhzb * (+30)
07:57:37 <esolangs> [[User:Dhzb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155339&oldid=155338 * Dhzb * (+2)
08:16:52 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155340&oldid=155308 * PkmnQ * (+15) /* Definition */
08:45:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155341 * C++DSUCKER * (+344) Created page with "AProVE can solve some programs without the use of aproximating rules, If we substitute <code>}<}</code> with <code>></code> and maybe <code>}<</code> with <code>*</code>. i will work on some code to generate a string rewriting system from bit
09:24:35 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155342 * Dhzb * (+1954) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''TIAEPL''' (This Is An Esoteric Programming Language), AEPL, or EPL is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Dhzb]] and inspired by [[APL]]. ==Data== Its only datatype is an algebraically-represented n-dimensional array of rational numbers (eith
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10:42:28 <esolangs> [[Rhombitrihexagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155343&oldid=155202 * 5anz * (+41) /* Truth Machine */
10:47:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Infinitehexagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155344&oldid=117580 * 5anz * (+284)
10:55:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:Infinitehexagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155345&oldid=155344 * 5anz * (+389) /* TC proof on tiling? */
11:26:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155346&oldid=155318 * PrySigneToFry * (+1082)
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12:21:36 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155347&oldid=154327 * None1 * (+275)
12:25:52 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155348&oldid=155278 * None1 * (+55) /* Commands */
12:34:24 <esolangs> [[;;;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155349&oldid=140727 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1011) Introduced an examples section comprehending three incipial members, added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, and altered the Unimplemented category tag to Implemented.
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13:44:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155350&oldid=155346 * Hotcrystal0 * (+264)
13:44:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155351&oldid=155350 * Hotcrystal0 * (+325)
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14:22:52 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155352 * PrySigneToFry * (+59) Created page with "White: Hotcrystal0 Black: PrySigneToFry # e4 e5 # Nf3 Nc6"
14:24:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155353&oldid=155351 * PrySigneToFry * (+214)
14:34:15 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155354&oldid=155309 * PrySigneToFry * (+550)
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14:58:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155355&oldid=155353 * Hotcrystal0 * (+259)
14:59:09 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155356&oldid=155352 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
14:59:16 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155357&oldid=155356 * Hotcrystal0 * (+211)
15:00:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RealGoatMan * New user account
15:40:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155358&oldid=155324 * RealGoatMan * (+112) /* Introductions */
15:49:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155359&oldid=155358 * RealGoatMan * (+82)
15:52:20 <esolangs> [[User:RealGoatMan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155360 * RealGoatMan * (+4) Created page with "halo"
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15:54:43 <esolangs> [[User:RealGoatMan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155361&oldid=155360 * RealGoatMan * (+165)
15:54:45 <wib_jonas> ais523: http://ais523.me.uk/blog/scoped-generics.html has a typo, s"funciton"function"
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16:21:22 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155362&oldid=155313 * MihaiEso * (+19)
16:22:41 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155363&oldid=155362 * MihaiEso * (+45)
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16:34:39 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155364&oldid=155354 * MihaiEso * (+1344)
16:35:22 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155365&oldid=155364 * MihaiEso * (-34)
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16:57:56 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155366&oldid=147807 * Gapples2 * (+1599) added turing-completeness proof, hopefully explanation is understandable
17:21:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Photostar * New user account
17:29:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155367&oldid=155359 * Photostar * (+141)
17:41:58 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155368 * Photostar * (+2635) Created page with "Pysembly is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by Photostar. The aim of the language is to require building of logical structures from a very simple basis. The download also includes the file for a text user interface environment, allowing running the language
17:42:49 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155369&oldid=155368 * Photostar * (+8)
17:43:35 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155370&oldid=155369 * Photostar * (+20)
17:45:22 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155371&oldid=155370 * Photostar * (+22)
17:45:49 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155372&oldid=155371 * Photostar * (+1)
17:46:25 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155373&oldid=155372 * Photostar * (+1)
17:50:06 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155374&oldid=155373 * Photostar * (-1)
18:19:25 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155375&oldid=155374 * Photostar * (+691)
18:19:45 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155376&oldid=155375 * Photostar * (+7)
18:20:49 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155377&oldid=155376 * Photostar * (+75)
18:30:24 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155378&oldid=155323 * Joachim * (+595) /* I and O */
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18:50:20 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155379&oldid=155378 * Joachim * (+1216) /* Arrows creation */
18:50:55 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155380&oldid=155379 * Joachim * (+0) /* Arrows creation */
18:51:32 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155381&oldid=155380 * Joachim * (+1) /* = ! */
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18:53:44 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155382&oldid=155381 * Joachim * (+81) /* Arrows creation */
18:56:28 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155383&oldid=155382 * Joachim * (+48) /* Comments */
18:56:36 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155384&oldid=155377 * Photostar * (+64)
18:56:52 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155385&oldid=155383 * Joachim * (+2) /* # arrows */
18:57:11 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155386&oldid=155384 * Photostar * (+60)
18:57:24 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155387&oldid=155386 * Photostar * (-1)
18:59:14 <esolangs> [[InterpretMe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155388&oldid=150606 * Photostar * (+21)
19:00:58 <esolangs> [[InterpretMe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155389&oldid=155388 * Photostar * (-20)
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19:06:45 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155390&oldid=155387 * Photostar * (+516)
19:08:57 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155391&oldid=155390 * Photostar * (+8)
19:11:18 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155392&oldid=155391 * Photostar * (+100)
19:14:33 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155393&oldid=155392 * Photostar * (-150)
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19:24:06 <esolangs> [[User:Photostar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155394 * Photostar * (+79) Created page with "Hi! I'm a Python programmer and creator of [[Pysembly]]. yeah that's about it."
19:26:23 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155395&oldid=155393 * Photostar * (+396)
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20:08:27 <korvo> Idle question, not important or urgent: what's the best complexity for adding natural numbers, given that they are represented by their prime factorizations?
20:10:41 <b_jonas> korvo: I'm pretty sure you need fast prime factorization for that, because you can get any natural number n as a sum of O(log(n)) numbers with easy prime factorization, such as by writing it in base 2↑32, so I can ask your hypothetical algorithm to add those small amount of numbers and get me the prime factorization
20:11:01 <b_jonas> so it can't be faster than whatever the fastest algorithm for prime factorization is at the day
20:11:16 <b_jonas> but of course we don't really know how fast we can do that
20:13:46 <korvo> b_jonas: That's fair. There's a special case for 2 in any representation, but I think that that comes from the idea that the sum of two numbers can create a factor of two from 0 + 0 or 1 + 1.
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20:15:41 <korvo> Hm. Factors of 3 are not especially bad either, because we can extract some (mod 3) information too. For any prime factor p > 3, p and 3 are coprime, so powers of p (mod 3) always look like 1,2,1,2... or 2,1,2,1...
20:16:35 <korvo> By induction, I think that for any two prime factorizations, we can quickly write out whether their sum includes at least one of each possible factor. That's kind of cool.
20:17:02 <b_jonas> I don't think factors of 2 is a special case here. you can just take any natural number B that's small enough that you can factorize any natural number up to B easily, and just write numbers in base B representation, and that's just as much of a problem as with base 2
20:17:49 <b_jonas> I just chose 2 as the base because it's the most familiar
20:18:35 <korvo> Oh, I wasn't thinking about any particualar base. I'm thinking about Gödel-style representations that only enumerate the powers of the prime factors.
20:24:07 <b_jonas> ah. though I suspect that prime factorization is probably not *essential* for proving stuff with Gödel coding, it's just a convenient easy way to write the proofs
20:24:25 <b_jonas> but I'm not entirely sure about that
20:25:08 <korvo> Sure, any coding will do. But I'm specifically wondering about the interaction of additive and multiplicative structure in rings and fields, and this seems like a decent-enough question to ask on its own.
20:25:26 <b_jonas> you clearly don't need prime factorization for just doing Gödel-coding, but you may need it to prove quining stuff about very low power proof system
20:26:29 <b_jonas> there's some weird magic going on there of which I don't really understand how powerful it is
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21:12:27 <esolangs> [[User:Joachim]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155396 * Joachim * (+194) Created page with "++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++++<<-]>-----.>-.<. your way through life. Some might say it's overengineering, but I call it my way of life. == My languages == * [[Undyne Programming Language]]"
21:20:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Grub * New user account
21:22:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cosmnik * New user account
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21:41:06 <zzo38> Now GitHub will require 2FA. I think that isn't a very good idea; there are more secure systems such as X.509 and HMAC. Apparently they want to secure the software supply chain, but I think signed releases is a more sensible way to do that.
22:15:18 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155397&oldid=155385 * Stkptr * (+391)
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22:25:26 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155398&oldid=155395 * Stkptr * (+76)
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23:48:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155399 * Hotcrystal0 * (+281) Created page with "Do you have a chess.com account? ~~~~"
23:49:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155400&oldid=155399 * Hotcrystal0 * (+31)
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00:18:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155401&oldid=155400 * I am islptng * (+628)
00:28:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155402&oldid=155401 * Hotcrystal0 * (+271)
00:39:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155403&oldid=155290 * I am islptng * (+2135)
00:41:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155404&oldid=155402 * I am islptng * (+662)
00:42:38 <esolangs> [[Cowlang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155405 * Treeplate * (+3986) add Cowlang
00:43:52 <esolangs> [[Cowlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155406&oldid=155405 * Treeplate * (+15) fix formatting
00:44:28 <esolangs> [[Cowlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155407&oldid=155406 * Treeplate * (-9) fix formatting, attempt 2
00:45:35 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155408&oldid=155357 * I am islptng * (+234)
01:30:14 <esolangs> [[StormScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155409&oldid=155301 * I am islptng * (-4) /* Intro */
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02:57:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155410 * I am islptng * (+1134) Created page with "SKI & BCKW calculator in Python. Tell me if I made mistakes. <pre> prog = input() def sepbrac(s): res = [] depth = 0 cur = "" for i in list(s): if i == "(": depth += 1 if i == ")": depth -= 1 cur += i if len(cur) == 3 and cu
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03:29:13 <ais523> b_jonas: thanks for letting me know – I have fixed that typo
03:29:52 <ais523> several months ago I went and rewrote my blogging framework in order to make fixing typos in existing blog posts possible – and that effort came in useful here
03:30:20 <ais523> (previously it was using last-modified-date of the file as the date of the blog post, which made it hard to update things, but now the source files have a date written on them explicitly)
04:10:13 <esolangs> [[Iota]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155411&oldid=92999 * Xyzzy * (+510)
04:19:50 <ais523> huh, I just randomly discovered how to drag with the middle button held using this touchpad (tap with three fingers, immediately return one finger to the touchpad and move that around)
04:20:14 <ais523> presumably doing that with two fingers rather than three gives you a drag with the right button held
04:23:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PentagonalHD * New user account
04:56:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155412&oldid=155410 * I am islptng * (+124)
04:59:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155413&oldid=155412 * I am islptng * (-25)
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09:34:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155415&oldid=155414 * I am islptng * (+1063)
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10:40:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155416&oldid=155286 * None1 * (+13) /* B */
11:00:09 <esolangs> [[LongDick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155417&oldid=84438 * Master5o1 * (+76) add link to zsh implementation.
11:01:15 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155418&oldid=155348 * None1 * (+3219)
11:02:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155419&oldid=155416 * None1 * (+29) /* B */
11:05:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vector]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155420 * None1 * (+431) Created page with "==Translation from [[Nopfunge Solid]]== By the time I wrote this article I found a way to translate [[Nopfunge Solid]] to it, but I have no time to write it. --~~~~"
11:05:43 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155421&oldid=155418 * None1 * (+49)
11:07:04 <esolangs> [[Vector]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155422&oldid=153426 * None1 * (+25) /* Interpreters */ Implemented
11:07:21 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155423&oldid=155421 * None1 * (+25)
11:08:29 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155424&oldid=155404 * I am islptng * (+646)
11:13:37 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155425&oldid=155408 * PrySigneToFry * (+339)
11:13:59 <esolangs> [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155426&oldid=150395 * None1 * (+184) /* List of OISCs */
11:14:55 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155427&oldid=155363 * PrySigneToFry * (-1)
11:18:33 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155428&oldid=155365 * None1 * (+177) /* Commands */
11:19:01 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155429&oldid=155428 * None1 * (+2) /* Commands */ plural
11:20:36 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155430&oldid=155423 * None1 * (+97) /* bftree */
11:20:44 <esolangs> [[Bftree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155431&oldid=155430 * None1 * (+97) /* Python */
11:28:02 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155432&oldid=155429 * PrySigneToFry * (+1086)
11:31:37 <esolangs> [[Chess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155433&oldid=118714 * PrySigneToFry * (+69)
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13:54:35 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155434&oldid=155425 * Hotcrystal0 * (+26)
13:54:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155435&oldid=155434 * Hotcrystal0 * (-4)
14:08:35 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155436&oldid=121673 * KapitanGamer * (+126)
14:14:53 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155437&oldid=121734 * KapitanGamer * (+66)
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14:21:35 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155438&oldid=155435 * PrySigneToFry * (+116)
14:23:15 <esolangs> [[Mutzerium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155439&oldid=153275 * PrySigneToFry * (+67)
14:25:20 <esolangs> [[Mmr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155440&oldid=145067 * PrySigneToFry * (+62)
14:27:23 <esolangs> [[16 bits, 256 bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155441&oldid=154355 * PrySigneToFry * (+29)
14:34:14 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155442&oldid=155272 * PrySigneToFry * (+182)
14:58:24 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155443&oldid=155437 * KapitanGamer * (+3)
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15:10:45 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155444 * KapitanGamer * (+1400) Created page with "'''!*/''' is an esolang created by [[User:KapitanGamer]], which is distinguished by the fact that you can add, multiply and divide a variable... but you cannot subtract. Due to this fact, only one variable, no conditionals and no loops make !*/ [[
15:11:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Realdanvanth * New user account
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15:15:13 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155446&oldid=155445 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
15:15:26 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155447&oldid=155446 * Hotcrystal0 * (+4)
15:15:36 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155448&oldid=155447 * Hotcrystal0 * (-4)
15:15:51 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155449&oldid=155448 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
15:17:56 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155450&oldid=155449 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
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15:38:09 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155451&oldid=155444 * KapitanGamer * (+234)
15:44:12 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155452&oldid=155436 * KapitanGamer * (+0)
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17:14:37 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155453&oldid=155419 * Photostar * (+15)
17:16:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Darkloyd255 * New user account
17:17:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Burn0.gif]]"
17:21:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155455&oldid=155367 * Darkloyd255 * (+257) Added my introduction
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17:25:15 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155456&oldid=154157 * Darkloyd255 * (+82) Added a Fibonacci sequence
17:27:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Burnlike 1 Patches.png]]"
17:28:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Burnlike Rule 110.png]]"
17:36:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:A more descriptive name.jpeg]]": unused, apparently never has been used; offtopic; possibly also a copyright violation this is not a general-purpose image hosting site
17:49:22 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155459&oldid=155397 * Joachim * (+152) /* ! arrows */
17:52:10 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155460&oldid=155398 * Photostar * (+97)
17:52:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155461&oldid=154751 * Truttle1 * (+6726) /* A ruleset that interprets Rule 110 given the example program */ new section
17:56:28 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155462&oldid=155459 * Joachim * (+53) /* Display */
17:59:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155463&oldid=155461 * Truttle1 * (+84) forgot to add signature
17:59:40 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155464&oldid=155460 * Photostar * (+169)
18:13:32 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155465&oldid=155181 * Photostar * (+560)
18:16:17 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155466&oldid=155465 * Photostar * (+318)
18:18:36 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155467&oldid=155462 * Joachim * (+516)
18:20:55 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155468&oldid=155467 * Joachim * (+1) /* Example of a Head file */
18:42:36 <esolangs> [[Hydrogen]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155469 * JIT * (+1589) Created page with "Hydrogen is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 : also inspired by [https://github.com/Oderjunkie/oats/ Oats] : but just the brackets : , just inspired by the brackets : of [https://github.com/Oderjunkie/oats/ Oats] : , just the brackets, not the commands with the brackets :
18:44:08 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155470&oldid=155453 * JIT * (+15)
18:48:10 <esolangs> [[Ebur+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155471&oldid=155019 * JIT * (+6)
19:04:58 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155472&oldid=154462 * Ractangle * (-72) /* Implemented */
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19:05:57 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Usability unknown]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155473 * Photostar * (+134) Created page with "===Usability for programming definition discussion=== Where can I find it? ~~~"
19:07:15 <esolangs> [[User:Photostar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155474&oldid=155394 * Photostar * (+114)
19:07:29 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155475&oldid=155464 * Photostar * (+6)
19:08:21 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155476&oldid=155475 * Photostar * (-3)
19:09:55 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155477&oldid=155476 * Photostar * (+97)
19:10:35 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155478&oldid=155472 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Cat program */
19:13:22 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155479&oldid=155478 * Ractangle * (-147) /* Implemented */
19:29:33 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155480&oldid=155477 * Photostar * (+10)
19:41:30 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155481 * Photostar * (+273) Created page with "'''Subpysembly''' is a work in progress language created inside of [[Pysembly]]. Its major gimmick is that it uses numbers for ''everything'', even though since work started string equivalence has been added to Pysembly. The language is being created by [[User: Pho
19:41:43 <esolangs> [[User:Photostar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155482&oldid=155474 * Photostar * (+4)
19:41:48 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155483&oldid=155450 * Hotcrystal0 * (+91)
19:42:36 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155484&oldid=155073 * Photostar * (+56)
19:42:54 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155485&oldid=155483 * Hotcrystal0 * (+18)
19:53:04 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155486&oldid=155481 * Photostar * (+97)
19:53:53 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155487&oldid=155480 * Photostar * (-2)
20:17:03 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155488&oldid=155479 * Ractangle * (-72) /* Commands */
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21:29:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0/Colon three]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155489&oldid=155325 * Hotcrystal0 * (+39)
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23:10:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155490&oldid=155463 * Truttle1 * (+72) Added the source code
23:30:30 <esolangs> [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155491&oldid=155009 * I am islptng * (-16)
23:40:31 <esolangs> [[Template:April]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155492&oldid=154872 * I am islptng * (+105) i need it.
23:56:58 <zzo38> Is there the "non-predictive T9" text entry that could be used for search queries (e.g. if you enter "23" then it would find "AD", "AE", "AF", "BD", "A3", "2D", etc, without needing to specify which one you want)?
23:58:05 <zzo38> (This can be done by storing "23" as the search key for all such entries, in that example.)
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01:24:19 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155493&oldid=155486 * Photostar * (+628)
01:35:37 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155494&oldid=155493 * Photostar * (+180)
01:38:30 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155495&oldid=155494 * Photostar * (-37)
01:42:19 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155496&oldid=155495 * Photostar * (+1)
01:42:44 <korvo> Thinking out loud about recent changes to [[Iota]]. It's not quite right to claim that two combinator bases are equivalent; rather, we want to say that they are adjoint, and that the adjunction induces some sort of extensional equivalence.
01:43:58 <korvo> For it otherwise is immediately TC -- by some nasty flavor of Rice, I guess -- whether two particular combinator expressions in different bases are equivalent, because any sort of extraction we perform on them is technically a "simulation" in the fancy machine sense.
01:44:52 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155497&oldid=155496 * Photostar * (+204)
01:51:48 <korvo> In general I suppose I'm imagining a sort of pattern across the wiki where a combinator basis' TC proof can start and end by showing that the basis can be freely (faithfully) bracketed to SKI.
02:13:15 <korvo> Another pattern I'm thinking about is syntax-description languages. Is there appetite for languages like META II, https://www.bayfronttechnologies.com/mc_tutorial.html ?
03:07:49 <esolangs> [[Excellulata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155498 * I am islptng * (+1676) Created page with "The name is a portmanteau of "Excel", "cellular" and "automata". === Syntax of formula === A formula is an expression written in Polish(Prefix) notation. Operators include: <pre><nowiki> add A B | Add A to B. con A B | Concatenate A with B. sub A
03:10:32 <esolangs> [[Excellulata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155499&oldid=155498 * I am islptng * (+63)
03:47:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * I am islptng * moved [[User talk:I am islptng]] to [[User talk:I am islptng/arxiv/1]]: ARCHIVED
03:49:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155502&oldid=155501 * I am islptng * (+1463) Removed redirect to [[User talk:I am islptng/arxiv/1]]
03:50:51 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155503&oldid=155487 * Photostar * (+16)
03:51:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155504&oldid=155502 * I am islptng * (+619)
03:53:26 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155505&oldid=155497 * Photostar * (+124)
03:55:49 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155506&oldid=155505 * Photostar * (+259)
03:56:13 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155507&oldid=155503 * Photostar * (+25)
03:58:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155508&oldid=155504 * I am islptng * (-43)
03:59:38 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155509&oldid=155507 * Photostar * (+1166)
04:02:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155510&oldid=155508 * I am islptng * (-4)
04:10:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155511&oldid=155510 * I am islptng * (+18)
04:11:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155512&oldid=155511 * I am islptng * (+0)
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04:19:48 <ais523> korvo: I think you can talk in terms of simple translations between combinator bases, i.e. each combinator in either can be replaced with an expression formed out of combinators from the other, giving you a bisimulation
04:20:31 <ais523> it's reasonable to consider that as being a way to prove an equivalence, even though it's undecidable to determine equivalence in the general case
04:21:02 <ais523> we do the same sort of thing with languages all the time – if two languages can each be compiled to the other, we consider that as a proof that they have the same computational class
04:25:55 <korvo> ais523: Yeah. I just think that it *must* be something like bisimulation, because a universal basis isn't going to offer some sort of universal decomposition.
04:28:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155513&oldid=155490 * Ais523 * (+873) /* Thoughts */ some of my own thoughts
04:31:17 <ais523> perhaps a good term would be "operational equivalence" – we have an easily provable equivalence in the operational semantics, but aren't sure how to define equality in the denotational semantics
04:36:25 <ais523> my PhD was heavily based on game semantics, which is a form of semantics that's both somewhat operational and somewhat denotational – it defines a lambda calculus term (with potential free variables) in terms of its possible patterns of calls and returns – it's very reminiscent of a finite state machine, but without the restriction to finitely many states (although it often approximates things as having finitely many states)
04:37:42 <ais523> although, I basically only studied game semantics for simply typed lambda calculus + fix, which is much easier to handle than an untyped lambda calculus would be
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06:45:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155514 * I am islptng * (+3740) Created page with "{{SUBST:User talk:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box}}"
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06:52:25 <esolangs> [[Template:Collapsible]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155515 * I am islptng * (+234) Created page with "<onlyinclude> <div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> {{{1|}}} <div class="mw-collapsible-content"> {{{2|}}} </div></div> </onlyinclude> Usage: <nowiki>{{collapsible|Prompt|Content}}</nowiki> Effect: {{collapsible|Prompt|Content}}"
06:53:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155516&oldid=155160 * I am islptng * (+36461)
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08:40:03 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155517&oldid=155488 * Ractangle * (+72)
08:40:22 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155518&oldid=155517 * Ractangle * (-11) /* Newline/IndexError */
08:41:51 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155519&oldid=155518 * Ractangle * (+31) /* Infinite loop */
08:43:07 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155520&oldid=155519 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Cat program */
08:51:18 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155521&oldid=155520 * Ractangle * (+9) /* Infinite loop */
08:58:40 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155522&oldid=155521 * Ractangle * (-23) /* Implemented */
08:59:03 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155523&oldid=155522 * Ractangle * (-23) /* Newline */
08:59:33 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155524&oldid=155523 * Ractangle * (+22) /* Unimplemented */
09:20:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TenBillionPlusOne * New user account
09:25:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155525&oldid=155455 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+225)
10:47:00 <esolangs> [[Brain-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155526&oldid=138457 * B jonas * (+87)
10:49:04 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155527&oldid=155192 * PrySigneToFry * (+93)
10:50:15 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155528&oldid=155485 * PrySigneToFry * (+13)
10:57:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155529&oldid=155512 * PrySigneToFry * (+791) Copy rule from archive
10:57:41 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155530&oldid=155044 * Lampe2020 * (-18) Making it clear that arrowey is abandoned by its creator
10:58:03 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155531&oldid=155530 * Lampe2020 * (-1) Fixed a typo
11:11:04 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155532&oldid=155442 * PrySigneToFry * (+297)
11:13:30 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155533&oldid=153927 * Lampe2020 * (+162) /* Lesser known programming languages */ Add arrowey to list
11:13:54 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155534&oldid=155533 * Lampe2020 * (+11) /* Lesser known programming languages */ Oops, I forgot a word
11:14:54 <lisbeths> https://github.com/memesmith0/calculator/blob/main/calculator.c
11:19:48 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155535&oldid=155528 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
11:26:21 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155536&oldid=155342 * Dhzb * (+1034) /* Character set */
11:31:20 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155537&oldid=155535 * PrySigneToFry * (+5)
11:32:37 <esolangs> [[Category:APL-like]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155538&oldid=75880 * PrySigneToFry * (+63)
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12:03:19 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155539&oldid=155537 * Hotcrystal0 * (+8)
12:04:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155540&oldid=155539 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14)
12:05:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155541&oldid=155424 * I am islptng * (+45)
12:07:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155542&oldid=155529 * I am islptng * (-60)
12:08:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155543&oldid=155541 * Hotcrystal0 * (+268)
12:09:49 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155544&oldid=155540 * Hotcrystal0 * (+5)
12:17:29 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155545&oldid=155544 * Hotcrystal0 * (+28) piece labels
12:17:46 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155546&oldid=155545 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
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13:29:55 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155547&oldid=155456 * Darkloyd255 * (+14051) Added a Fizz Buzz to the list of example programs.
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13:56:50 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155548&oldid=155536 * Dhzb * (+56) /* Character set */
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14:33:16 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155549&oldid=155546 * PrySigneToFry * (+68)
14:34:09 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language Turing-completeness Proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155550 * Joachim * (+2455) Created page with "As of 8 April 2025, the [[Undyne Programming Language]] has been mistakenly categorize as a [[Finite state automata]]. This page has been made to prove that UPL is in fact [[Turing-complete]]. == Definitions == * The user i
14:38:35 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155551&oldid=155468 * Joachim * (-44) /* Computational class */
14:40:28 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155552&oldid=155551 * Joachim * (+1) /* # arrows */
14:45:13 -!- JAA_ has changed nick to JAA.
14:45:28 <esolangs> [[User:Darkloyd255]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155553 * Darkloyd255 * (+128) Created my user page.
14:46:36 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155554&oldid=155549 * Hotcrystal0 * (+43)
14:48:49 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155555&oldid=155547 * Darkloyd255 * (+14145) added a shorter 99 bottles of beer program
14:51:13 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155556&oldid=155548 * Dhzb * (+2) /* Character set */
14:51:51 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155557&oldid=155554 * Hotcrystal0 * (+4)
14:52:23 <esolangs> [[PSTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155558&oldid=135185 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) typo fix
14:52:48 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155559&oldid=155556 * Dhzb * (-43) /* Character set */
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15:53:15 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155560&oldid=155509 * Photostar * (-26)
15:54:09 <esolangs> [[Subpysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155561&oldid=155506 * Photostar * (+0)
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16:34:13 <korvo> My last-night notes include the very funny phrase "This article is part of a series on Turing-completeness" but I'm not sure whether that specific phrase is a good idea.
16:35:47 <int-e> `? procrastination
16:35:50 <HackEso> The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this final funny cat clip on youtube.
16:43:37 <korvo> Well, what I actually think I was imagining is an infobox on *proof techniques* for Turing-completeness. People are always handwaving proofs by reduction; we could have a standardized handwave template.
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17:07:13 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155562&oldid=155552 * Joachim * (+34) /* Computational class */
17:10:15 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155563&oldid=155531 * Lampe2020 * (-56) This is, on fact, no longer a work-in-progress. And it's not implemented either.
17:11:38 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155564 * Lampe2020 * (+6105) Created and populated the page
17:19:55 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155565&oldid=115188 * DigitalDetective47 * (+91) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/93929|93929]] by [[Special:Contributions/DigitalDetective47|DigitalDetective47]] ([[User talk:DigitalDetective47|talk]])
17:22:46 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155566&oldid=155564 * Lampe2020 * (+107) /* Truth Machine */ Ensure output is always one 0 or infinitely many 1s
17:25:12 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47/WIP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155567&oldid=127463 * DigitalDetective47 * (+220)
17:48:59 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155568&oldid=155566 * Lampe2020 * (+4) /* Interpreter */ Add link to C++
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18:08:34 <esolangs> [[!!!mby]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155569 * Esdraslov * (+1085) Created page with "'''!!!mby''' is a esolang made by [[User:Esdraslov]] that you define the keywords with builtin keywords == builtin keywords == These keywords are useless for a while {| class="wikitable" !Keyword !Meaning |- |style="text-align:center;"|<code>*...*</code> |Anything b
18:09:17 <esolangs> [[User:Esdraslov]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155570&oldid=154739 * Esdraslov * (+12) /* My Esosteric programming languages */
18:14:13 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155571&oldid=155524 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Commands */
18:20:24 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155572&oldid=155568 * Lampe2020 * (+1) /* Interpreter */ Correct wrong name of GNU GPLv3
18:30:59 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155573&oldid=155572 * Lampe2020 * (+177) /* Turing-completeness */ Add section about Turing-completeness of Stackowey
19:10:44 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47/WIP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155574&oldid=155567 * DigitalDetective47 * (-163) mark for deletion
19:11:08 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155575&oldid=155565 * DigitalDetective47 * (-91) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/155565|155565]] by [[Special:Contributions/DigitalDetective47|DigitalDetective47]] ([[User talk:DigitalDetective47|talk]])
19:13:53 <esolangs> [[*lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155576 * DigitalDetective47 * (+206) initial draft
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19:19:31 <zzo38> Is there a description of the file formats of the databases opened by the dbopen function? It says it is B-tree and whatever else it is but does not describe the exact format, it seem
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19:32:58 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tiziano220812 * New user account
19:39:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155577&oldid=155525 * Tiziano220812 * (+168) /* Introductions */
19:47:47 <esolangs> [[User:Tiziano220812]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155578 * Tiziano220812 * (+67) Created page with "<style> h1 { color: red; } </style> <h1>red text oooh</h1>"
19:48:35 <esolangs> [[User:Tiziano220812]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155579&oldid=155578 * Tiziano220812 * (-24)
19:48:51 <esolangs> [[User:Tiziano220812]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155580&oldid=155579 * Tiziano220812 * (-1)
19:51:44 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155581&oldid=155555 * Darkloyd255 * (+38217) Added a new program "The twelve days of befungmas"
19:52:38 <esolangs> [[User:Tiziano220812]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155582&oldid=155580 * Tiziano220812 * (+60) forming my own user page
20:07:41 <esolangs> [[.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155583&oldid=146506 * Darkloyd255 * (+87) /* Commands */ Fixed issues with grammar and restated more clearly.
20:08:47 <esolangs> [[.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155584&oldid=155583 * Darkloyd255 * (+24) /* Examples */ Made more clear
20:22:59 <esolangs> [[.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155585&oldid=155584 * Darkloyd255 * (+338) Added a lot more details on the Esolang.
20:30:10 <zzo38> The man page for dbopen mentions <db.h> but there does not seem to be any such file on my computer. Why is the man page installed, then?
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21:04:52 <esolangs> [[User:Tiziano220812]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155586&oldid=155582 * Tiziano220812 * (-60)
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21:15:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Alikberoff * uploaded "[[File:Prefixes order controller (SN74xx).png]]"
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21:19:52 <esolangs> [[IHISIANGTUI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155588 * Tiziano220812 * (+902) Created page with "<h1 style="font-size:15px;">Name = I Hate Indentation So I Am Not Going To Use It</h1> <pre> instructions: .. make variable .= set .+= add (or concatenate if both are strings) .-= subtract .*= multiply ./= divide .%= mod to: moves 2 variables say: output some
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21:20:58 <esolangs> [[IHISIANGTUI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155589&oldid=155588 * Tiziano220812 * (+455)
21:43:07 <esolangs> [[WYSIWISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155590&oldid=155289 * Alikberoff * (-3)
21:52:18 <esolangs> [[Revolution 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155591&oldid=75010 * Darkloyd255 * (+513) Added more detail
21:55:58 <esolangs> [[1BNWL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155592&oldid=119574 * Darkloyd255 * (+2)
22:54:21 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155593 * Darkloyd255 * (+232) Created the page.
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23:28:29 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155594&oldid=155560 * Photostar * (+42)
23:28:52 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155595&oldid=155594 * Photostar * (+0)
23:33:58 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155596&oldid=155595 * Photostar * (+56)
23:34:25 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155597&oldid=155596 * Photostar * (+17)
23:45:58 <esolangs> [[User:RetroPain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155598&oldid=81108 * RetroPain * (+91) /* 2021 */
23:50:55 <esolangs> [[*lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155599&oldid=155576 * DigitalDetective47 * (+1106) define syntax
23:54:23 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155600&oldid=155593 * Darkloyd255 * (+1550) Added the page contents
23:55:12 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155601&oldid=155600 * Darkloyd255 * (+9)
23:57:27 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155602&oldid=155601 * Darkloyd255 * (+95) Categorized
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00:04:32 <esolangs> [[*lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155603&oldid=155599 * DigitalDetective47 * (+352) refine definitions and add out statement
00:05:03 <fizzie> The IPv6 saga got a resolution. They've not confirmed it (yet, at least), but my ISP's support people said their network engineering team believed it was related to their routing configuration, and then a little while after that response it started working again, so presumably they did something to fix it.
00:08:06 <esolangs> [[Unstable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155604 * Darkloyd255 * (+1550) Creation.
00:15:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Chalk1 * New user account
00:23:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155605&oldid=155577 * Chalk1 * (+175)
00:26:25 <esolangs> [[User:Chalk1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155606 * Chalk1 * (+197) Created page with "== Greetings == ''Hello!'' I'm Chalk. I... umm... what do I say??? Uhhh... I don't know.. Uhhh???? Hmmm.... What do I say... Uhh... Umm... Hmmmm... Hmmmmmmmm... Uhhh... I give up. I can't do this."
00:26:53 <esolangs> [[*lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155607&oldid=155603 * DigitalDetective47 * (+80) define behavior when back recieves a pointer that has never been dereferenced
00:33:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:IHISIANGTUI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155608 * Chalk1 * (+238) Created page with "== Python interpreter for IHISIANGTUI? == I could try to make a simple interpreter for it. I want to see where this project will go; it's pretty interesting. --~~~~"
01:21:49 <zzo38> How to make new input methods and output methods for use with XIM/XOM functions of Xlib? (Also, I think the functions requiring the locale isn't as good and better functions should be defined, e.g. XOpenOM2 which explicitly specifies the character set, character encoding, and options.)
01:32:06 <esolangs> [[*lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155609&oldid=155607 * DigitalDetective47 * (+66) clarify that & is not allowed for assignment targets
01:48:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155610&oldid=155513 * Truttle1 * (+1124)
02:10:37 <esolangs> [[Hello]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155611&oldid=128971 * Tiziano220812 * (+269) /* Interpreter */
02:11:50 <esolangs> [[*lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155612&oldid=155609 * DigitalDetective47 * (+13) only line initial whitespace is ignored
02:12:18 <esolangs> [[Hello]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155613&oldid=155611 * Tiziano220812 * (+43) /* Interpreter */
02:30:56 <esolangs> [[Ruletable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155614 * I am islptng * (+24) Redirected page to [[RuleLoader]]
02:31:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155615&oldid=148743 * I am islptng * (+684)
02:31:39 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155616&oldid=145863 * I am islptng * (+1) Change my name
02:32:22 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155617&oldid=146590 * I am islptng * (-79) Change my name
02:32:39 <esolangs> [[Wasaya/Libraries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155618&oldid=148387 * I am islptng * (+1) Change my name
03:10:31 <esolangs> [[User:Anthonykozar/Notes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155619&oldid=152205 * Anthonykozar * (+347) Add Hexagony, language based on IDS structures, base-3 languages, etc.
04:09:57 <esolangs> [[*lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155620&oldid=155612 * DigitalDetective47 * (+1055) add some example programs
04:14:40 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155621&oldid=155573 * Lampe2020 * (-177) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/155573|155573]] by [[Special:Contributions/Lampe2020|Lampe2020]] ([[User talk:Lampe2020|talk]])
04:19:59 <esolangs> [[*lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155622&oldid=155620 * DigitalDetective47 * (+101) add interpreter link
04:27:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155623 * Lampe2020 * (+599) Added note about revision undo.
04:30:29 <esolangs> [[*lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155624&oldid=155622 * DigitalDetective47 * (+139) add categories, finalize page
04:31:25 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155625&oldid=155470 * DigitalDetective47 * (+13) /* Non-alphabetic */ add *lang
04:31:37 <esolangs> [[User:Anthonykozar/Notes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155626&oldid=155619 * Anthonykozar * (+14) Adding Noisett.
04:35:58 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155627&oldid=150324 * DigitalDetective47 * (+475) add *lang
04:37:32 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155628&oldid=153488 * DigitalDetective47 * (+396) /* Implementations */ add *lang
04:38:03 <esolangs> [[User:Anthonykozar/Notes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155629&oldid=155626 * Anthonykozar * (+41) Adding user Zero who created Noisett?
04:41:06 <esolangs> [[Fool]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155630&oldid=94740 * DigitalDetective47 * (+33) this is definitely declarative
04:41:29 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155631&oldid=155575 * DigitalDetective47 * (+246) add *lang
05:00:23 <zzo38> I had played Pokemon recently, with random double battle, with dynamax allowed and shift commands disallowed (this rule was decided at random before the battle begins). I remember much of what happened.
05:02:15 <zzo38> My first two pokemons were Chimecho (with Prankster ability, and moves: Heal Pulse, Recover, Reflect, Light Screen), and Marowak (Rock Head ability, and moves included Swords Dance and Double-Edge and two others I didn't use), and opponent's first two pokemons were Gogoat and Grimmsnarl.
05:07:59 <zzo38> Marowak used Swords Dance a few times, Chimecho and Grimmsnarl both set up screens, Gogoat did Leech Seed on both of my pokemons. When Gogoat fainted, the opponent's next pokemon was Samurott and defeated Marowak by Hydro Pump.
05:11:47 <zzo38> I had guessed that Samurott was choice-locked, and I looked at my other pokemons, I had Gastrodon (with Storm Drain ability) and Eelektross (with Discharge move). I guessed that if I activated Gastrodon then probably Samurott would dynamax, and I would have Gastrodon also dynamax.
05:13:26 <zzo38> My plan was also that when opponent had only two active pokemons left, I would let Chimecho to faint (from Leech Seed, or having Gastrodon attack it if necessary), and then activate Eelektross; and that I would not attack Samurott before then.
05:15:13 <zzo38> Gastrodon's moves were Earth Power, Ice Beam, Clear Smog, and Recover. I could use Max Quake to increase Sp.Def, and Samurott used Max Darkness, to decrease Sp.Def, so they cancelled out.
05:15:25 <zzo38> My plan ended up working perfectly.
05:18:45 <zzo38> (since my own pokemons were not choice-locked, I could select moves of the other types in case the opponent was resisted or immune to some of them, and still defeat Samurott.)
05:22:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155632&oldid=155615 * PkmnQ * (+163) /* Burnlike */
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06:34:20 <b_jonas> fizzie: great. now just make sure you keep testing that it doesn't break again soon.
06:35:59 <b_jonas> zzo38: what are "shift commands"?
06:45:14 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1322.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
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08:42:21 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155633&oldid=155138 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Gammaline stuff */
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10:49:54 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155634&oldid=155557 * PrySigneToFry * (+10)
11:14:25 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155635&oldid=155193 * PrySigneToFry * (+224)
11:18:22 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155636&oldid=155532 * PrySigneToFry * (+222)
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12:04:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FortuiteMan * New user account
12:05:15 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155637&oldid=155634 * Hotcrystal0 * (+22)
12:06:00 <esolangs> [[Talk:BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155638&oldid=155341 * C++DSUCKER * (+218)
12:12:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155639&oldid=155605 * FortuiteMan * (+148)
12:12:26 <esolangs> [[Hexagony]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155640&oldid=106062 * FortuiteMan * (+91) /* Special characters */
12:18:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155641&oldid=155638 * C++DSUCKER * (+199)
12:18:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155642&oldid=155641 * C++DSUCKER * (-1)
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12:40:51 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155643&oldid=155637 * PrySigneToFry * (+15)
13:13:31 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/Draft of EtPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155644&oldid=155024 * PrySigneToFry * (+126)
13:21:56 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155645&oldid=155643 * Hotcrystal0 * (+39)
13:22:09 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155646&oldid=154738 * DGCK81LNN * (+508) /* WhatCommands */
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13:25:48 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155647&oldid=155646 * DGCK81LNN * (-1) /* WhatCommands */
13:26:31 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155648&oldid=155559 * Dhzb * (-5)
13:34:22 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155649&oldid=155648 * Dhzb * (+360) /* Character set */
13:35:38 <esolangs> [[WhatLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155650&oldid=155647 * DGCK81LNN * (+159) /* WhatCommands */
13:36:07 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155651&oldid=155484 * Dhzb * (+13)
14:19:29 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155652&oldid=155636 * PrySigneToFry * (+457)
14:21:43 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155653&oldid=155645 * PrySigneToFry * (+57)
14:21:58 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155654&oldid=155653 * PrySigneToFry * (-1)
14:23:05 <esolangs> [[User:Anthonykozar/Notes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155655&oldid=155629 * PrySigneToFry * (+87)
14:31:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155656&oldid=155403 * PrySigneToFry * (+1112) /* Collaboration? */ new section
14:31:52 <esolangs> [[TIAEPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155657&oldid=155649 * Dhzb * (-6)
14:33:17 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155658&oldid=155654 * Hotcrystal0 * (+35)
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15:47:08 <lisbeths> r8 my language: https://github.com/memesmith0/calculator/edit/main/calculator.c
15:48:33 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155664&oldid=155061 * JIT * (+406)
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16:05:17 <int-e> What a hostile link (it redirects to a login page. No, I'm not signed into github, why would I be?)
16:06:49 <JAA> s/edit/blob/ probably
16:07:08 <JAA> Although it's still GitHub's shitty interface, so still hostile.
16:07:36 <int-e> s=edit=blob/main= works
16:08:02 <int-e> JAA: yeah that works
16:11:59 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155665&oldid=155602 * Darkloyd255 * (+2244) Added programs
16:12:39 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155666&oldid=155665 * Darkloyd255 * (-13) Removed multithreaded as thats not really what it is.
16:14:23 <zzo38> If it still doesn't work, substitute "raw" in place of "blob"; that seems to work on many websites with git and not only on GitHub. It is also possible to use the GitHub API, or to write your own scripts to use the React data included in the HTML; I have done both.
16:14:58 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155667&oldid=155625 * Darkloyd255 * (-45) Added my article "brainfive"
16:15:08 <zzo38> b_jonas: By shift commands in pokemon I mean when you use a shift command to switch out your active pokemon and switch in a different one (rather than being switched out by something like Volt Switch or U-Turn or being forced by Roar or Whirlwind)
16:16:14 <lisbeths> its likely already been edited since you last saw it
16:16:20 <lisbeths> https://github.com/memesmith0/calculator/blob/main/calculator.c
16:16:49 <esolangs> [[0widthnonjoiner]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155668&oldid=141707 * Darkloyd255 * (+9) Article is a stub
16:16:59 <lisbeths> the #c people think I'm lying when I said I am serious about it
16:18:07 <int-e> lisbeths: I don't think anybody will notice that it changed. Because, if you're approaching this as the specification of a language, it's unreadable. Sure, you can approach this as a reverse engineering challenge (and in that category it's easy because the code is fairly short) but that's a much larger effort.
16:19:01 <lisbeths> it is meant to be extended with reader macros
16:19:22 <lisbeths> its essentially a really small reader macro system based on gnu dc
16:19:29 <esolangs> [[Eafish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155669&oldid=132999 * Darkloyd255 * (+9) stub
16:19:33 <lisbeths> only it uses registers instead of a stack
16:21:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155670&oldid=155623 * Stkptr * (+943)
16:22:11 <esolangs> [[Unstable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155671&oldid=155604 * Darkloyd255 * (+9) Stub
16:23:13 <esolangs> [[Hydrogen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155672&oldid=155469 * JIT * (-4)
16:24:36 <esolangs> [[Unstable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155673&oldid=155671 * Darkloyd255 * (+129)
16:27:26 <esolangs> [[Brainfive]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155674&oldid=155666 * Darkloyd255 * (-108) Realized the cat program kinda sucked
16:34:32 <korvo> lisbeths: Well, it's a fairly minimal wrapper around a subset of portable C. It's also worth knowing how this parallels the APL family, which has a standard pile of criticisms and only caught on because of array-programming idioms.
16:35:56 <korvo> The parser feels like it's been deeply limited by the C way of structuring code combined with the desire to shove everything into a single procedure. Metacompilation seems like an impossible hassle, if you're looking at complexity ceilings.
17:02:56 <zzo38> (This "shift command" is also called "switch command")
17:31:43 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155675&oldid=155466 * Photostar * (+514)
17:48:19 <lisbeths> korvo its primary mission is to make it possible in a small space to have reader macros
17:48:43 <lisbeths> then once you have reader macros you implement an interpreter for a system that allows for better coding such as better metacompilation
17:57:13 <korvo> lisbeths: What does your macro system look like?
17:58:55 <lisbeths> korvo: you write functions that transform stdin into the default op codes
17:59:09 <korvo> I mean concretely.d
17:59:40 <lisbeths> well to show you an example it would take a long time for me to show you a concrete example
18:00:22 <lisbeths> its basically like a very very simple assembly language. if you code in any assembly language at all you should be able to learn this assembly language easily
18:00:26 <korvo> Okay, you don't have to do it. Why would it take a long time?
18:01:05 <lisbeths> creating a function by hand can take some time in this assembly language
18:03:23 <korvo> Okay. To me, that's a sign that the language is too low-level; paraphrasing Perlis, writing a procedure shouldn't require irrelevant details.
18:04:04 <lisbeths> yeah this is meant to be able to fit into under 512 bytes of assembler
18:05:03 <korvo> Sure, but that shouldn't mean that writing a procedure or encoding a function is a long or difficult task.
18:05:25 <lisbeths> I'll think about that for a while
18:05:35 <korvo> I mean, there are languages that are intentionally hard that way, like Malbolge, but I didn't get the impression that you wanted that sort of language.
18:06:04 <zzo38> What details are irrelevant details though? Sometimes some details might not be irrelevant, but higher level programming languages (including C) make it difficult or not possible to specify such things anyways, even if you want to do.
18:06:05 <lisbeths> basically all arrays in this language in every cell it contains both an int and a pointer
18:06:27 <korvo> For example, what does an identity function look like? Or, since you've given I/O, is there a cat program which loops over input and copies it to output?
18:06:28 <lisbeths> and in a proper function all of the integer slots are filled with instructions with the last instruction being 0
18:07:09 <lisbeths> so if I want to make a function I have to memory allocate the array and then fill each instruction into its slot one by one
18:14:14 <korvo> zzo38: malloc() and arrays seem fairly irrelevant.
18:16:29 <lisbeths> korvo how else am I gonna handle data of arbitrary complexity and size input into my program
18:22:08 <korvo> lisbeths: Don't have an operation for allocating memory; instead, allocate memory as part of certain operations.
18:22:29 <zzo38> I disagree; I think that it is meaningful to have a function to allocate memory
18:22:45 <korvo> This style's supposed to imitate Whitney, right? Look at how he allocates memory: https://github.com/kparc/ksimple/tree/main/ref
18:24:42 <korvo> Oh, uh, the annotated file is probably better: https://github.com/kparc/ksimple/blob/main/a.c
18:26:12 <korvo> He builds primitive words for allocating and freeing vectors, and then immediately builds refcounting on top so that users won't have to worry about it.
18:31:01 <lisbeths> I haven't read too many other peoples attempts I am just doing what feels right
18:57:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: I see. I did't know that was called "shift", and Bulbapedia wasn't very helpful.
19:21:52 <esolangs> [[Iota]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155676&oldid=155411 * Corbin * (+129) Infobox, TC proof, cleanup. I read Stay 2005 but didn't find anything interesting.
19:49:37 <lisbeths> korvo vectors take up too many characters
19:56:57 <esolangs> [[Jot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155677&oldid=117657 * Corbin * (+1493) Cleanup, TC proof, links, get closer to Barker's wording.
19:57:38 <korvo> lisbeths: No worries.
19:58:30 <korvo> I've just been cleaning up articles on combinators. By chance, have you seen the language Miranda yet? You're likely familiar with its most popular offspring Haskell, but classically Miranda was just a very nice syntax for a graph-reduction machine that evaluates combinators.
19:59:05 <korvo> Ben Lynn has a wonderful step-by-step explanation of how a Miranda-like language can be written in very little code: https://crypto.stanford.edu/~blynn/compiler/
20:01:42 <lisbeths> korvo you are much more learned than me on these things but I compensate with my immense autism and schizophrenic ability to see patterns that don't exist
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20:02:53 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155678 * Darkloyd255 * (+3144) Created a wip page
20:07:28 <esolangs> [[0widthnonjoiner]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155679&oldid=155668 * Ractangle * (-9) this language is in the languages list, so...
20:10:01 <esolangs> [[User:AmNow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155680&oldid=95466 * Ractangle * (-1) no one fixed the list?
20:27:54 <lisbeths> my brain is starting to understand what you mean by my code is too low level
20:27:59 <lisbeths> I need your high level secrets
20:28:10 <lisbeths> what are these high level op codes u speak of
20:32:50 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155681&oldid=155678 * Darkloyd255 * (+1191) Added more detail
20:35:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155682&oldid=155667 * Buckets * (+365)
20:35:32 <korvo> lisbeths: I'm referencing a Perlis quote: "A programming language is low level when its programs require attention to the irrelevant." If you haven't seen these before, they are worth a look: https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html
20:35:53 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155683&oldid=154985 * Buckets * (+364)
20:36:21 <korvo> If your macro system is difficult to show to other folks because writing in it requires a lot of attention to irrelevant low-level details, then perhaps there is a higher-level simpler macro system that you could design which removes those details.
20:36:39 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155684 * Buckets * (+10710) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=<span style="display: inline-block; transform: rotate(-30deg);">4</span><span style="display:inline-block; transform:scaleX(-1);"><sup><big>g</big></sup></span>''''''''''n<span style="position: relative; display: inline-block;"><span style="position: ab
20:36:42 <lisbeths> its just an assembler language tho
20:36:51 <lisbeths> its not that significantly different than learning riscv
20:38:52 <korvo> Sure. Although note that RISC-V doesn't, on its own, have malloc(). That's a part of the C language, supported by the OS and target platform. (I do agree that RISC-V has arrays.)
20:39:59 <korvo> Low-level memory layouts are often an irrelevant detail when it comes to writing algorithms. They might matter for an *efficient* implementation of some algorithm, but it's worth remembering that you already chose size as your main concern.
20:43:10 <lisbeths> yeah its a really small macro system
20:44:55 <korvo> That's a fun oxymoron. IIUC "macro" is short for "macro-instruction", by analogy with "micro-instructions" or "micro-operations" inside a hardware unit; a macro was originally just a sequence of instructions.
20:45:45 <korvo> But the idea of "small macro" is interesting. Shutt called the reach of a macro system its "abstractive radius" and proved a couple basic results about what they can't do.
20:45:55 <korvo> In particular, privacy and isolation can't be provided by macros.
20:47:28 <lisbeths> what if I use my macros to make lambda calculus
20:50:07 <korvo> Then your macro-expansion phase becomes Turing-complete. If you want that, then look up "vau calculus". Shutt showed that this was practical by creating Kernel Lisp, a Lisp which uses vau calculus and has genuine f-expressions.
20:50:34 <lisbeths> my macro system is already Turin complete
20:51:00 <lisbeths> it can expand to any arbitrary thing
20:52:12 <lisbeths> well pseudo Turing complete because it doesn't have an infinite tape
20:52:42 <korvo> Could you show an example of a macro expansion? Was there a document that explained this, or just the C code?
20:53:10 <lisbeths> I got to test all of my op codes first
20:53:18 <lisbeths> I just rewrite this thing from scratch in the last 3 days
20:53:37 <korvo> Like, I see that you've got a Von Neumann architecture and that the code is probably universally self-modifying. But that has *nothing* to do with macros.
20:53:59 <lisbeths> you and I are defining macros differently
20:54:10 <lisbeths> my macros are special and different than any textbook
20:54:20 <korvo> I'm not seeing a reader, either, so I'm not sure where the reader macros are supposed to hook in.
20:54:27 <korvo> Oh! Then pick a different word, please.
20:55:13 <lisbeths> maybe reader macros isn't the right word
20:56:44 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155685&oldid=155597 * Photostar * (+6)
20:56:46 <korvo> A reader macro extends a Lisp runtime so that it can (read) in non-native syntax.
20:56:54 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155686&oldid=155651 * Photostar * (-57)
20:57:04 <lisbeths> oh well we don't use lisp read
20:57:21 <korvo> They're considered macros because they expand that non-native syntax into standard Lisp syntax.
20:57:39 <lisbeths> yeah I can write a function in my language that expands non native syntax into native syntax
20:57:56 <korvo> That's just parsing.
20:57:57 <esolangs> [[User:Photostar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155687&oldid=155482 * Photostar * (+0)
20:58:28 <lisbeths> I can extend the syntax semantics and grammar via parsing
20:59:33 <lisbeths> a certain kind of macro is taking place here you can call it whatever u want but it extends the syntax
20:59:36 <korvo> Sure. Plenty of systems can do that.
20:59:57 <lisbeths> mine is designed so that that is all that it does
21:00:12 <korvo> I think that https://fexpr.blogspot.com/2013/12/abstractive-power.html might be a good read at some point, although I'll warn you that Shutt is very dense and sometimes I'll have to chew a paragraph for 20 or 30 minutes.
21:00:41 <korvo> "Extensibility enthusiasts had hoped, frankly, that by means of language-extension mechanisms it would become possible for everyone to use a single base language and transform it into anything anyone needed for any particular purpose."
21:00:47 <lisbeths> abstraction is the most powerful tool in my toolbelt
21:00:59 <korvo> "Macro preprocessing, in particular, cannot easily be used to build a series of extensions, one on top of another, because as extension follows extension, the programmer is rapidly overcome by accumulating complexity."
21:01:57 <korvo> lisbeths: I think that this is a dilemma. If you're working with genuine macros, then you need to accept that there are many limitations to what they can express. Otherwise, I think that whatever you've built for abstraction should not be called "macro".
21:09:41 <lisbeths> my intuition tells me that other people likely fail to use macros as effectively as my intuition tells me that I can use them
21:13:07 <lisbeths> this article you linked essentially says that extensibility languages as he calls it hasnt been given a serious try since 40 years ago
21:13:19 <lisbeths> I think back then there were probably under a million coders
21:13:41 <lisbeths> they were all electrical engineers with very similar backgrounds
21:14:58 <korvo> If you have the patience for it, Shutt gives a category-theoretic explanation; the obstacles are genuine. It's not a matter of trying hard.
21:16:13 <korvo> "In language L0, records are declared with constant fields, and the fields can then be queried. … Language Lpriv is identical except that individual fields may be declared "private"; private fields cannot be queried, though they can be used when specifying the value of another field in the same record."
21:16:24 <korvo> "It's easy to transform an Lpriv text sequence into a valid L0 sequence: just remove all the "private" keywords from the field declarations. This is a macro/polynomial transformation…"
21:18:05 <korvo> But, as they prove in the final few paragraphs, there's no macro which transforms L0 into Lpriv under some reasonable desirable conditions.
21:19:34 <lisbeths> well like originally I was sucked in by the idea of one language that could transform into anything
21:20:02 <korvo> Anyway, no, the reason that the extensibility movement collapsed around that time is because of a much broader cultural revolution. UNIX is likely a big contributor; instead of trying to write monolithic mainframe applications that did everything, we switched to composition of smaller applications.
21:20:41 <lisbeths> yeah I mean I think I am trying to do something a little different with this extension language
21:20:44 <korvo> Relevant to this channel, the Turing-tarpit movement broke away from mainstream computing at that time too.
21:21:07 <lisbeths> I don't agree that the definition of Turing tarpit maps to reality
21:21:21 <lisbeths> the definition of Turing tarpit assumes that languages that people call Turing tarpits are useless
21:21:47 <korvo> What definition? Perlis' definition is: "Beware of the Turing tar-pit in which everything is possible but nothing of interest is easy."
21:22:21 <korvo> Turing machines and lambda calculus are tarpits. Computability theory still studies tarpits today.
21:22:55 <lisbeths> I think my goals for this extension language are not as broad or far reaching as the goals of those monolithig guys in the 1960s
21:23:15 <lisbeths> I am not planning on loading it up with heaps and heaps of macros. just a few good macros that make a language that I want
21:24:10 <korvo> Sure. Sounds like fun.
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21:45:30 <ais523> b_jonas: zzo38: I think most Pokémon players refer to the command that replaces your active Pokémon with a different one as "switching Pokémon"
21:45:54 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, I mentioned that is another name for it
21:46:04 <ais523> "shift" is used in the options menu for a setting that gives you a free switch whenever an opponent's Pokémon faints, but isn't widely used otherwise
21:46:48 <ais523> (and my sense is that most serious Pokémon players like to pretend that the shift option doesn't exist, because the battle system is balanced much better without the free switch)
21:47:42 <zzo38> I also think it is better without, and I always disable that option anyways
21:50:02 <ais523> getting basically any battle command for free is very powerful, even if it isn't very good (e.g. Growl is generally considered very weak as a move, but Intimidate, which gives the same effect as Growl for free upon switching in, is very strong)
21:50:33 <ais523> and switching is one of the more useful battle commands, and giving that for free to someone who is winning is very unbalancing
21:50:42 <zzo38> Some implementations (e.g. Pokemon Unbound) do say "shift" on the menu to switch out your active pokemon for another, although some say "switch"
21:54:48 <zzo38> But I agree that is unbalancing so it should take up a turn. Although, that shift mode only applies in the single player game anyways I think; some versions have a "semi-shift" mode that you are not allowed to see what the opponent's next pokemon is, but none I have seen have "opponent shift" option that gives opponent the opportunity to do but the player does not.
21:55:55 <ais523> well, an opponent shift would be pointless in singles because a shift triggers after a Pokémon faints, and when a Pokémon faints you have to replace it, so the opponent already got a choice of what to replace it with and there's no reason to let them immediately change their mind
21:56:07 <ais523> it might make sense in doubles – if one Pokémon faints, you get to switch out the other for free
21:57:00 <zzo38> That is not what I meant. I meant the single player story mode, not a competitive battle, where when the player's pokemon faints the gym leader (or whoever it is) is allowed to switch for free.
21:57:58 <ais523> Pokémon's AI is generally not very good even in the later generations, where lots of complex logic has been added to try to make it act intelligently
21:58:19 <ais523> so maybe NPC shifting wasn't implemented because it would be too difficult to get it to make reasonable decisoins
21:59:26 <zzo38> Some unofficial versions have improved AI (although still have some problems)
22:00:15 <zzo38> (The battle I was describing though, was not the single player story mode, which does not use random teams or random rules anyways)
22:00:37 <ais523> it's actually really hard to write a good AI for even really simple versions of Pokémon because the optimal strategy is usually a mixed strategy
22:03:17 <zzo38> Yes, I would expect so (much of the strategy is you have to guess if opponent will switch out, and other stuff), but still it could be improved from what official versions and even some things in unofficial versions; I have seen situations where the AI's selection does not seem to make much sense at all (especially if Explosion is involved, in my experience)
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05:02:40 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155696&oldid=155242 * PrySigneToFry * (+208)
05:33:16 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155697&oldid=155696 * PrySigneToFry * (+37)
06:29:36 <esolangs> [[StormScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155698&oldid=155409 * I am islptng * (+15)
06:32:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155699&oldid=155610 * Ais523 * (+1255) /* Thoughts */ more thoughts
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07:08:02 <esolangs> [[LPeg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155700 * Corbin * (+1179) Stub for a parser.
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07:33:25 <esolangs> [[META II]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155701 * Corbin * (+1618) Stub for the original metacompiler.
07:49:07 <esolangs> [[META II]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155702&oldid=155701 * Corbin * (+712) Add a couple clarifying paragraphs that I'm sure won't confuse anybody~
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09:04:04 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155703 * RixTheTyrunt * (+1938) Created page with "HAPPA is a 2D esolang in which you control a "buggy". In HAPPA, you can configure where the "buggy" starts, the horizontal velocity (going left/right) but NOT the horizontal velocity (up/down, default is always down). It is sort of like [[Befunge]], however the "bug
09:11:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155704&oldid=155682 * RixTheTyrunt * (+12) /* H */
09:12:52 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155705&oldid=155703 * RixTheTyrunt * (+64)
09:49:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155706&oldid=153654 * PrySigneToFry * (+112) /* Worse news */ new section
09:52:17 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155707&oldid=155079 * C++DSUCKER * (+18080)
09:53:36 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155708&oldid=155707 * C++DSUCKER * (+11)
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11:19:29 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155709&oldid=155235 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
11:24:40 <esolangs> [[Yoctostack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155710&oldid=92336 * Otesunki * (+502) add example implementation
11:29:42 <esolangs> [[PAGENAME]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155711&oldid=137471 * Cycwin * (+687)
11:47:01 <int-e> . o O ( Is there any logic to when YT adds a &pp=garbage argument to its links? )
11:53:47 <fizzie> . o O ( Every time there's a question like that I'm really tempted to go figure it out, but it's perfectly pointless because I couldn't then say anything about it... )
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11:59:51 <int-e> Yeah and it's invisible to most people anyway so Google probably won't ever talk about it.
12:02:06 <b_jonas> how do you say in english to follow a hyperlink, but make it sound like a sci-fi/fantasy hyperspace jump?
12:07:03 <esolangs> [[PAGENAME]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155712&oldid=155711 * Cycwin * (+124)
12:07:42 <int-e> Establishing a link, riding the waves, entering a portal into the public portion of a corporate network
12:08:38 <int-e> (This isn't an answer, I'm brainstorming a bit. I don't really recall phrases for this kind of thing, say from Neuromancer.)
12:09:53 <int-e> The thing is, from a 1990s point of view "following a hyperlink" sounds very futuristic and sci-fi-like.
12:10:46 <int-e> But the novelty wore off and now this particular phrase is in everyday use and it's no longer sci-fi so... are you even asking a fair question? :-)
12:11:08 <fizzie> Did HyperCard call cross-card transitions hyperlinks? Can't remember. (It's from the 80s.)
12:12:44 <int-e> I guess entering a web portal hasn't really caught on (with everything-app web portals like Yahoo! being supplanted by search engines)
12:13:17 <fizzie> Ooh, Internet Archive has emulated HyperCard stacks: https://blog.archive.org/2017/08/11/hypercard-on-the-archive-celebrating-30-years-of-hypercard/
12:14:28 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperCard ..love the use of present tense in the first paragraph
12:14:47 <int-e> LOL "HyperCard was created by Bill Atkinson following an LSD trip."
12:15:53 <fizzie> https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/03/03/macromedia-flashdance always comes to my mind when there's talk about... well, not the early web, but the thing after that, I guess.
12:16:29 <fizzie> Does Hypnospace Outlaw have a fancy alternate-reality term for following a hyperlink?
12:17:01 <int-e> Users build or modify stacks by adding new cards. . o O ( are those collectibles too? )
12:17:25 <int-e> This feels like something I should know about but also it was Apple so maybe that's why I don't.
12:18:15 <fizzie> I had some classmates in the Macintosh camp so I got a bit exposed that way, and then there's the Myst connection.
12:19:23 <fizzie> (Not an actual physical camp.)
12:19:30 <int-e> There is a Myst connection? (I played it on PC. I watched the making of and I know they used a lot of Apples but they talked mostly about 3D modelling and raytracing, and a bit about how they found that adding sound really improved immersion)
12:19:51 <fizzie> Myst was a big HyperCard stack.
12:20:38 <int-e> "HyperCard continued to be popular and used for a widening range of applications, from the game The Manhole, an earlier effort by the creators of Myst, to corporate information services." -- close enough
12:22:07 <fizzie> There's a story somewhere on the web on how they got Myst to be in color, something HyperCard didn't support in an official way until very very late.
12:22:48 <int-e> https://github.com/myst-lang/myst/blob/master/BYTECODE_REFERENCE.md (getting on topic :P)
12:23:02 <fizzie> Oh, maybe even "never" rather than "very late"? According to https://orangejuiceliberationfront.com/how-hypercard-got-its-color-back/
12:23:49 <int-e> I seem to recall that they wanted Myst to be portable. Not sure, my memory isn't too reliable and I don't know how I'd readily verify that claim.
12:24:40 <fizzie> Ah, it's only the never-released HyperCard 3.0 that would have had standard color support.
12:24:41 <int-e> (that Myst is, of course, a different Myst)
12:25:01 <int-e> (But Myst had some sort of virtual machine at its core.)
12:26:01 <b_jonas> int-e: "now this particular phrase is in everyday use" => I disagree, "hyperlink" is no longer in everyday use, people other than us oldies just call them a "link", which sounds much less futuristic. the word "hyperlink" is falling off use so much that we can now resue it for sci-fi/fantasy, with futuristic spaceships opening a "hyperlink" instead of a portal or wormhole or stargate or hyperspace bypass
12:26:36 <int-e> b_jonas: well yeah I'm equating hyperlink and link, and I usually say "link"
12:27:19 <int-e> (Depending on context obviously because "link" has other meanings. Though I guess if "link" is ambiguous I'll say "URL")
12:27:42 <b_jonas> sure, but "link" sounds less sci-fi/fantasy unless it's Link from Legend of Zelda, or a psychic
12:27:51 <HackEso> Spirit Link \ W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature (Target a creature as you cast this. This card enters the battlefield attached to that creature.) \ Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much life. \ LE-U, 4E-U, 5E-U, 6E-U, 7E-U, 8ED-U, 9ED-U, 10E-U
12:27:56 <int-e> But "URL" is *not* a good sci-fi term. :)
12:29:37 <b_jonas> fortunately the "hyper" part from "hypertext" or "hyperlink" is immortalized in techical contexts in abbreviations like "href" and "http" and "html"
12:31:18 <int-e> and "urchin" is immortalized in utm_*
12:40:49 <b_jonas> I've no idea what those are
12:41:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAGENAME]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155713 * Cycwin * (+25) what a weird language...
12:41:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:PAGENAME]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155714&oldid=155713 * Cycwin * (+2)
12:59:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155715&oldid=155695 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
13:41:07 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/common.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155716 * PkmnQ * (+64) will I regret this later? who knows
14:18:55 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155717&oldid=155621 * Lampe2020 * (+3494) Defined the language, added a bunch of additional info and refactored the entire page
14:24:36 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155718&oldid=155717 * Lampe2020 * (+7) Make it clear that C++ and JavaScript are not reference implementations but languages used for those
14:29:48 <korvo> int-e: While I don't know for sure, I would guess that there is a learned parameter which measures how likely you are to watch the video without sharing it. In that case, the tracking parameter can deanonymize you in Google's GAIA database.
14:31:14 <korvo> I've been wondering what "pp" stands for. I bet "si" stands for "search index" or "search iota" or similar; it only shows up on videos from search results.
14:31:34 <int-e> Well I'm coming at them with no cookies and the local storage disappears every day so they should do that for all the videos. ;)
14:31:52 <int-e> my guess was "share id"
14:32:05 <int-e> updated from "session id"
14:32:41 <int-e> I've seen a guess that "pp" was for "player params" but that makes no sense and probably made no sense when the guess was made.
14:33:28 <korvo> One way or another, they build profiles. YT knows what kinds of videos an IP address likes, knows what the browser fingerprints are inside a household, etc.
14:33:43 <int-e> it could be "profile picture" ;-)
14:33:46 <korvo> "player", "profile", "personal", "parameter", "preference", etc.
14:34:10 <fizzie> I did in fact look up the protobuf that parameter is a serialized form of, but can't comment.
14:35:02 <int-e> fizzie: you said more or less the same thing about udm=14 ;)
14:36:28 <fizzie> I guess it's probably okay to reveal that "player params" isn't far off, and that there were some bugs complaining how that particular proto is a mismash of all kinds of (internal and external) things in it and should be split, but nobody's gone through the trouble of doing that.
14:37:07 <int-e> heh I like "mismash" (but assume it was mishmash)
14:37:09 <korvo> fizzie: See, this is why working in CorpEng was great. The only products I can't talk about are internal and mostly dead now.
14:37:38 <fizzie> I don't work in YouTube, though, I just like taking a peek.
14:37:40 <korvo> I wonder if my NDA prevents me from encouraging folks to disassemble protobufs and do other reverse-engineering. I'll have to ask my lawyer.
14:38:30 <korvo> "if"? "whether", really. English is so difficult.
14:38:58 <int-e> they have iffy wheather
14:46:10 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155719&oldid=155718 * Lampe2020 * (-2) Remove redlink
15:10:30 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155720&oldid=155684 * JIT * (+12)
15:11:53 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode (College Board)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155721 * Stkptr * (+3796) create
15:12:33 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode (College Board)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155722&oldid=155721 * Stkptr * (+14)
15:13:00 <esolangs> [[Coral (zyBooks)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155723&oldid=155205 * Stkptr * (+25)
15:14:45 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode (College Board)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155724&oldid=155722 * Stkptr * (+6)
15:15:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155725&oldid=155690 * JIT * (+267) /* Pie Flavor */ new section
15:24:46 <esolangs> [[Counter clockwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155726&oldid=153082 * Stkptr * (+113)
15:28:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155727&oldid=150753 * Cycwin * (+150) /* Sorry? */ new section
15:31:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Akira * New user account
15:34:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155728&oldid=155688 * Akira * (+134)
15:38:12 <esolangs> [[LPeg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155729&oldid=155700 * Stkptr * (+53) It should be able to recognize CSGs, i.e. it models LBAs
15:41:59 <b_jonas> wait, what are these pp parameters? I know google maps sometimes adds extra parameters, but how do I get one from youtube?
15:42:20 <b_jonas> I probably saw one at some point in youtube too but don't remember how
15:49:59 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/common.css]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155730&oldid=155716 * PkmnQ * (+11)
15:54:49 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155731&oldid=155702 * Stkptr * (+827) It seems to model only CFGs
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16:07:17 <esolangs> [[META II]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155732&oldid=155731 * Corbin * (+63) /* Syntax */ Reformat for readability.
16:12:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:META II]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155733 * Corbin * (+414) Explain the reconciliation I'm about to perform.
16:23:53 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155734&oldid=155732 * Corbin * (+986) /* Syntax */ Explain how to use metasyntax.
16:46:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155735&oldid=155733 * Stkptr * (+211)
17:04:55 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155736&oldid=155708 * C++DSUCKER * (+2897)
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17:13:21 <fizzie> I'm guessing the length will depend on whatever the reason was for getting one.
17:14:36 <fizzie> In the first 10 recommendations on my home page, one has a pp=... param that's 10 characters long.
17:17:25 <fizzie> Uh... 10 in base 16. (I can't count, apparently.)
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18:01:55 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155737&oldid=145536 * Ractangle * (+218)
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18:06:04 <int-e> over a hundred possible fields? wee
18:07:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:HAPPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155738 * RixTheTyrunt * (+0) Created blank page
18:08:53 <int-e> hrm didn't FF use to be able to display cookies
18:11:36 <int-e> (I mean in the preferences where you can also delete them... I guess it's now only possible in the "developer tools")
18:36:12 <zzo38> I did not upgrade Firefox because of the stuff they often remove or otherwise change. Nevertheless there are some features I had wanted from the newer version (such as TLS 1.3) but not the other stuff.
18:38:49 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155739&oldid=155736 * C++DSUCKER * (+4681)
18:40:16 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155740&oldid=155739 * C++DSUCKER * (+7) /* Alternative proofs */
18:47:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * RixTheTyrunt * uploaded "[[File:HAPPA.png]]"
18:47:47 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155742&oldid=155705 * RixTheTyrunt * (+314)
19:12:22 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155743&oldid=153602 * C++DSUCKER * (+343)
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20:22:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155744&oldid=155704 * Buckets * (+11)
20:23:02 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155745&oldid=155683 * Buckets * (+10)
20:23:11 <esolangs> [[Spil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155746 * Buckets * (+1493) Created page with "Spil is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Real Commands !! Instructions |- | 0-7 || Determines the movement, Push 0-7. |- | * || Toggle 0-7 to the Following Pseudo-Commands*. |} {| class="wikitable" |- ! Pseudo
20:25:25 <esolangs> [[Esorn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155747&oldid=154443 * Buckets * (+2)
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21:07:17 <Sgeo> TIL that something called Hytelnet exists
21:07:35 <Sgeo> (Saw a video about Gopher, then went to Floodgap's main site)
21:07:38 <Sgeo> https://www.floodgap.com/retrotech/hytelnet/
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21:25:12 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155748&oldid=155740 * C++DSUCKER * (+539)
21:43:32 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155749&oldid=154894 * Dmiz * (+272)
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21:44:50 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155750&oldid=155749 * Dmiz * (+0)
21:49:01 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155751&oldid=155750 * Dmiz * (+34)
21:53:53 <zzo38> I have now made five groups of cards which are not banned in Pseudo-Vintage, and two cards (Chaos Orb and Falling Star) which remain banned. (The latest additions are Attractions and stickers; however, many of those cards are acorn cards and those ones remain banned, but the others are not banned in Pseudo-Vintage.)
21:54:26 <zzo38> (One of these five groups contains only a single card.)
21:57:16 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155752&oldid=155742 * Stkptr * (-75) IO is irrelevant for Turing completeness, and a Turing complete language requires bidirectional data storage (like a tape, queue, or pair of stacks)
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22:07:12 <b_jonas> five groups? (counting on fingers) un/acorn-cards; Ante cards; Shahrazad; dexterity cards like Chaos Orb; Crusade and six others. that's five, but didn't you say un-cards and five others?
22:13:19 <b_jonas> maybe the mystery boostr playtest cards, or the few other earlier cards that were published by Wizards but weren't intended to be tournament-legal but also aren't technically un-cards?
22:35:33 <zzo38> The acorn cards remain banned. Some of them (and some (not all) of the mystery playtest cards) are legal in Extended-Pseudo-Vintage, though.
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23:07:09 <korvo> I love how Schaharazade gets her own category.
23:07:43 <korvo> Oh, wow, it really is "Shahrazad". What a quirky spelling.
23:16:43 <zzo38> Yes, that is how the name of the card is spelled, and it is the only card in that category.
23:17:27 <b_jonas> korvo: yeah, it's funny because Chaos Orb was more obviously a mistake to print, yet they repeated it with Falling Star
23:17:50 <zzo38> I think it is not the only place where that spelling is used but it isn't that common outside of Magic: the Gathering
23:18:10 <b_jonas> but Shahrazad is so flavorful that if they tried to repeat the same mechanic with any other flavor it would look bad in comparison
23:18:54 <korvo> zzo38: I know of the card but I've never seen one in-person. It's one of those names that gets mangled with each retranslation of the story.
23:18:58 <b_jonas> so they didn't reprint it except as an un-card, and eventually they figured out Karn Liberated as a replacement that doesn't inherit the drawbacks
23:19:44 <b_jonas> korvo: yeah, and sometimes M:tG has different spellings of a word on different cards
23:21:23 <korvo> b_jonas: And it doesn't help that I played Hearthstone for a few years and I still have friends playing Runeterra. There are so many common one-color cards where I know what it does but not its MtG name.
23:22:01 <b_jonas> korvo: that happens with Slay the Spire too. same name as in M:tG, very different card
23:55:15 <zzo38> I had tried to figure out how to define locales in Xlib and I found files in /usr/share/X11/locale/ with stuff such as "XLC common/xlibi18n _XlcGenericLoader" and I also looked at the source code for Xlib, but I don't know what "common/xlibi18n" is (presumably it is a file name but I don't know where it is expected to be found), and I cannot find the documentation relating to this.
00:04:12 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155753&oldid=155715 * PrySigneToFry * (+47)
00:11:19 <zzo38> Do you know where is documentation for adding the new locales and writing your own code to handle this?
00:13:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know, you could try to ask on #glibc
00:14:23 <korvo> There used to be a page on the freedesktop.org wiki but I can't find it. https://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/localization-guide/en/latest/guide/locales_x11.html looks like it has some of the necessary steps.
00:17:30 <zzo38> I suppose glibc is also relevant because setlocale will have to accept it too
00:20:11 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155754&oldid=155652 * PrySigneToFry * (+167)
00:27:41 <zzo38> I found some information about glibc locales. However, it seems to require Unicode for some purposes, so I don't know how to make it work without (or how to implement stateful encodings). However, I only need the locale for Xlib, so as long as setlocale function accepts it even if it cannot otherwise do anything with it, might be acceptable. (There are other problems with glibc and POSIX locales too anyways)
00:28:10 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155755&oldid=155748 * C++DSUCKER * (+348)
00:28:21 <zzo38> (For one thing, I think many of the things they put in there don't belong there anyways)
00:34:02 <zzo38> But, that isn't my concern right now; I wanted to know how to work it with Xlib.
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00:41:25 <korvo> lisbeths: I stubbed two articles on low-level parsing machines designed for meta, LPeg and META II. The latter also has a WP article, if you'd like more examples.
00:42:00 <korvo> I also was considering OMeta or Ohm, as well as (the UNIX flavor of) TMG, but I don't think that those are likely to be useful for you.
00:42:41 <korvo> OMeta is meant to be hosted as a DSL inside a fairly rich ALGOL derivative. Ohm is slow and IMO a dead end due to not being able to leave ECMAScript.
00:42:42 <b_jonas> zzo38: I did't know Xlib was involved, I thought locales were handled through libc only
00:42:52 <lisbeths> I think I am pushing up to the limits of what a high level assembly language that does not compiler down to the machine code could be
00:43:42 <korvo> TMG is interesting, but ultimately it's not a line of research which allows for the meta-language to vary with the needs of compiler authors. If you like it, look at its offspring, particularly the Bison/YACC lineage.
00:44:21 <korvo> What are those limits?
00:44:24 <lisbeths> I was saddened to find that posix doesn't come with yacc
00:44:52 <lisbeths> well like I don't think I can make my assembler language more performant without translating to machine code and then executing the machine code
00:45:51 <korvo> You could likely translate to a *virtual* machine, which is a lot easier than native JIT if you're limiting yourself to C.
00:46:09 <lisbeths> I think my program is a virtual machine
00:56:31 <zzo38> Xlib has its own locale handling but uses the locale set by libc, which means I think both are required
00:58:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155756&oldid=154088 * PrySigneToFry * (+1034) /* Make it even scarier !!!! */ new section
01:27:38 <esolangs> [[Tskastic/Command Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155757&oldid=155754 * PrySigneToFry * (+964)
01:35:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155758&oldid=155691 * PrySigneToFry * (+42)
01:57:25 <zzo38> It seems that one thing I will need to do is to make that setlocale(LC_CTYPE,0) will be able to return the locale name that I want if that locale is set. However, I can't set a locale unless libc allows it (even if the locale is otherwise empty; glibc seems to require locales to be Unicode and in this case I want to create non-Unicode locales, but it might not matter if the locale doesn't actually do anything).
01:59:15 <zzo38> It seems that, on my computer, it accepts the locales called "C", "POSIX" (which gets converted to "C"), "en_US.UTF-8", "en_CA", "en_CA.UTF-8", and "en_CA.ISO-8859-1"; nothing else I tried works.
02:01:07 <zzo38> (I don't actually need any of those other than the "C" locale, although I want to add another one in order that the setlocale function allows it to be selected (and will return the name I have defined for it rather than changing it to a different one), even if the new locale has no meaning otherwise.)
02:01:51 <zzo38> (Also, I think I don't need the new locale to work with any category other than LC_CTYPE.)
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02:19:23 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155759 * PrySigneToFry * (+7) Created page with "{{WIP}}"
02:22:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155760 * PrySigneToFry * (+1175) Created page with "Here is the forum of this langauge. = Name = I also used AI, and DeepSeek-R1 gives me the name "". Is that name good? Also, DeepSeek said that Korean are used for stack-operation and Japanese(especially Katakana) are used for function define, and Chinese are contr
02:23:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155761&oldid=155758 * PrySigneToFry * (+39)
02:28:53 <korvo> I'm doing one of those things where I listen to a greybeard interview and summarize the findings. Hopefully folks will let me know if they want transcriptions?
02:36:42 <esolangs> [[Tmg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155762 * Corbin * (+2241) Stub an important historical language.
02:37:45 <esolangs> [[META II]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155763&oldid=155734 * Corbin * (+21) One of two influences on one of Knuth's metacompilers.
02:41:27 <korvo> lisbeths: ^^ Stubbed Tmg. It could be what you're looking for; it's a very powerful formalism. It does require a fair bit of RAM and was eventually outcompeted by the YACC approach which supports fewer grammars but is much smaller and faster.
03:07:29 <korvo> Somebody talk me out of CHR(META II). It sounds like a lot of work but also *very* funny.
04:46:57 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155764&oldid=155759 * PrySigneToFry * (+707)
05:00:16 <zzo38> Idea of esolangs: programming language that is made of only characters that are not in Unicode (and possibly that are not in any other character set either, but that is even more difficult)
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05:11:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155765&oldid=155760 * I am islptng * (+909)
05:19:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155766&oldid=155335 * Tpaefawzen * (+236) /* Why the 3rd difference? */ Replied
05:21:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155767&oldid=155765 * I am islptng * (+685)
05:25:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155768&oldid=155767 * I am islptng * (+937)
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06:10:26 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155771&oldid=155675 * Zzo38 * (+165) Programming language that only uses characters that are not in Unicode (alternatively, only uses characters that are not in any other character set than its own).
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07:21:16 <esolangs> [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155772&oldid=154719 * Stkptr * (+2493)
07:30:08 <esolangs> [[User:PkmnQ/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155773&oldid=155730 * PkmnQ * (+31) Similar but different font
08:01:28 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155774&oldid=155764 * PrySigneToFry * (+156)
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08:34:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155776&oldid=155769 * I am islptng * (+671)
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09:03:18 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155778&oldid=155755 * C++DSUCKER * (+435)
09:07:19 <esolangs> [[Kolakoski sequence]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155779&oldid=152106 * PkmnQ * (+848) finally got around to the [[Minsky machine]] implementation
10:24:04 <esolangs> [[User:RixTheTyrunt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155780&oldid=155777 * RixTheTyrunt * (+68)
10:24:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Junkshipp * New user account
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10:28:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155781&oldid=155728 * Junkshipp * (+155) /* Introductions */
10:58:10 <esolangs> [[CJKGolfer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155782&oldid=154048 * PrySigneToFry * (+0)
10:59:15 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155783&oldid=155775 * PrySigneToFry * (+2185)
11:20:51 <esolangs> [[Empty Program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155784&oldid=152385 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Brainfuck, JS, Python, Lua and many other languages */
11:22:51 <esolangs> [[Empty Program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155785&oldid=155784 * Ractangle * (-238) /* Scratch(text), Kitten3(text), Kitten4(text) */ technicaly a null program is also correct since it does absolutely nothing
11:23:51 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155786&oldid=155737 * Ractangle * (-132)
11:24:26 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/common.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155787&oldid=155786 * Ractangle * (-2)
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12:48:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Joachim * uploaded "[[File:UPLHelloWorld.gif]]": A screen capture showing the execution of an Hello World program in UPL.
12:51:41 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155789&oldid=155562 * Joachim * (+28)
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13:30:23 <korvo> Thinking about Futamura projections and specializers. A syntax-directed compilation, as a program, could represent a morphism in a category of compilers. But the implementation seems hard given the available metacompilers.
13:31:00 <korvo> Like, in META II or Tmg, it's not hard to imagine an identity compiler for a given syntax; each rule contains actions which pretty-print itself.
13:33:00 <korvo> In META II, for each terminal like `.id`, there would be a following quine, like `.id .out(*)`, and similarly for each literal like `'/'` a quine like `'/' .out('/')`.
13:33:23 <korvo> META II has whitespace issues which have known fixes. Tmg's good to go.
13:34:11 <korvo> But that's the easy part. More difficult is composition; given two syntax-directed compilers where one can feed into the other, how can we *compute* the composite compiler?
13:35:16 <korvo> Even given Tmg's relatively nice algebra, it seems like this could only be done by a Turing-complete simulation of the second compiler in terms of the first compiler. It seems like it would be messy and require a lot of partial-evaluation trickery.
13:40:40 <korvo> ...So last night I dreamed of how to take a product of two compilers. And one of the things I imagined was that there could be a natural curry.
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13:44:33 <korvo> Like, suppose I want to compose two META II programs, one from language X to Y and one from Y to Z. Instead of somehow simulating that second compiler in terms of the first, maybe we could recompile the first one into a language that parses X and returns instructions for parsing Y in terms of Y.
13:44:59 <korvo> And this new curried compiler, when run on a compiler from Y to Z, produces the desired final product from X to Z.
13:45:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Joachim * uploaded "[[File:UPLLogo.png]]": The logo of UPL.
13:55:48 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155791&oldid=155789 * Joachim * (+247)
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13:59:21 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155792&oldid=155791 * Joachim * (+42) Had deleted categories by error
14:11:30 <esolangs> [[Stackowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155793&oldid=155719 * Lampe2020 * (+89) /* Syntax */ Add "prick" command
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14:32:07 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155794 * Junkshipp * (+2496) Created page with "THIS PAGE IS A WORK IN PROGRESS AND I HAVE THUS NOT ADDED CATEGORIES YET ==Introduction== Try to Take is a language capable of expressing different kinds of programs, including all Turing machines. It does this using a single command, a single constant (the numb
14:33:38 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155795&oldid=155794 * Junkshipp * (+1)
14:34:24 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155796&oldid=155795 * Junkshipp * (+6)
14:41:01 <esolangs> [[Onechar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155797&oldid=151472 * Cycwin * (+39) /* Some simple programs(?) */
14:46:33 <esolangs> [[Onechar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155798&oldid=155797 * Cycwin * (+4) /* The Syntax */
14:49:52 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155799&oldid=155752 * RixTheTyrunt * (+40) yuh uh?
14:50:42 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155800&oldid=155799 * RixTheTyrunt * (-5)
15:04:44 <esolangs> [[Undyne Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155801&oldid=155792 * Joachim * (+1028) Better formatting (<code></code>)
15:09:41 <esolangs> [[Syntax Null Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155802 * Akira * (+1381) Start Page
15:12:36 <ais523> so I compiled my yacc compiler bomb into a regular expression: ^(0*1){0,23}(1(0*1){23})*$
15:12:48 <ais523> but disappointingly, so far I haven't found a regex engine that struggles with it
15:13:23 <ais523> either they use backtracking (which is good at that regex even though it's exponential-time in general), or they compile the regex lazily to avoid exponential behaviour on that sort of regex
15:42:58 <ais523> <lisbeths> I was saddened to find that posix doesn't come with yacc ← POSIX does specify yacc but it might be an optional component
15:43:37 <ais523> I wrote my own POSIX yacc in Perl, with the motivation being "you can ship this with your program and use it to build your .y files even if the target system doesn't have yacc, as long as it has Perl, and most systems do"
15:44:11 <izabera> now you just need to add perl to posix
15:44:22 <ais523> although, POSIX yacc is weird in a number of ways and I think the only reason to use it is compatibility with existing programs
15:44:50 <ais523> in particular it specifies a number of things that block reasonable-looking optimisations, and the way it does precedence is weird and slightly broken
15:47:03 <ais523> <korvo> But that's the easy part. More difficult is composition; given two syntax-directed compilers where one can feed into the other, how can we *compute* the composite compiler? ← I think this one is interesting if you restrict the compilers to be in some restricted sub-TC compiler-writing language, it's an interesting question as to whether it composes
15:48:23 <ais523> I have been thinking a lot recently about "parse with a context-free grammar into an AST, then convert the AST into a string via providing a template string for each AST node", which is a somewhat restricted but surprisingly useful way to write simple compilers or at least transpilers
15:50:03 <ais523> e.g. to transpile BF to C one of the rules might look like «'[' commands ']' => "while(*ptr) { $2 }"», i.e. the output contains «while(*ptr) { » and « }» literally, and places the result of compiling «commands» in between them
15:50:38 <ais523> yacc works similarly to that but generates code that runs as part of the parser, rather than generating an output string
15:51:20 <ais523> and I'm not sure whether this composes with itself or not, but it'd be interesting if it did
15:52:25 <ais523> I guess if it the first compiler pretty-prints from the AST and the second one parses back into the same AST, it trivially composes, so to get interesting behaviour there would have to be some sort of rebracketing going on
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16:31:57 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155803&oldid=147155 * RixTheTyrunt * (+0)
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16:33:52 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155804&oldid=155803 * Ais523 * (+0) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/155803|155803]] by [[Special:Contributions/RixTheTyrunt|RixTheTyrunt]] ([[User talk:RixTheTyrunt|talk]]) "brainfuck" is in fact spelled with a lowercase first letter, at least when it appears mid-sentence, according to the original specification
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16:38:29 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155805&oldid=155563 * 5anz * (+0)
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16:52:11 <b_jonas> even if POSIX didn't have yacc, you could compile your yacc program into C that's portable enough for any POSIX system and distribute it that way, similar to how you run autotools as a developer and get a portable enough configure script
17:25:40 <korvo> ais523: Sure, that's like what Tmg offers. But just like with Futamura's original projections, I think that there's some serious engineering work being handwaved.
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17:40:37 <esolangs> [[Tmg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155806&oldid=155762 * Corbin * (+258) It's at least context-sensitive!
17:41:29 <korvo> ais523: Oh, also see this example: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brainfuck_to_C_translator_in_Unix_TMG.png
17:42:32 <korvo> I can *imagine* the partial evaluator, but it seems like it's not gonna actually be fun to write.
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17:54:01 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155807&oldid=155753 * Hotcrystal0 * (+32)
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18:34:20 <esolangs> [[LogicGate]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155808&oldid=108015 * Joachim * (+167) Better readability and formatting
18:44:07 <ais523> korvo: hmm, that example is a lot more complex than I was imagining
18:45:00 <ais523> also the string notation is bizarre (it appears to be angle-bracket-delimited, but accepts both <<> and <>> as valid strings)
18:53:59 <ais523> oh, I think I figured out the complexity – it is to indent the outputted C correctly
18:56:09 <ais523> also, it seems to be numbering the rightmost nonterminal as 1, the second-rightmost as 2, and so on?
19:01:10 <esolangs> [[C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155809&oldid=145641 * Keymaker * (+197) Link IOCCC.
19:03:01 <ais523> I found the docs: apparently the parsing rule is that > can appear as the first character but not later, sort-of like how [[] and []] work in regexps
19:05:25 <ais523> I guess the reason I was confused is that when strings use paired starting and ending delimiters, I expect them to nest (because that's the main advantage you get from using two different delimiters rather than a single delimiter)
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19:13:49 <esolangs> [[User:Junkshipp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155810 * Junkshipp * (+9) Created page with "Hi there!"
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19:24:50 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155811&oldid=155796 * Junkshipp * (+47)
19:28:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155812&oldid=155744 * Buckets * (+16)
19:29:41 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155813&oldid=155745 * Buckets * (+15)
19:29:52 <esolangs> [[Therefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155814 * Buckets * (+2076) Created page with "{{Lowercase}} therefuck is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Instruction |- | || If this Command is Reached, +1 Execute The Pseudo-Commands below; If this Command Is not Reached, +1. |} {| cla
19:30:21 <esolangs> [[Therefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155815&oldid=155814 * Buckets * (+18)
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19:56:30 <korvo> ais523: Yeah, but at least it fits on a single page.
20:05:34 <ais523> this logically means that a > mid-string is escaped as ><>
20:32:02 <ais523> korvo: so after looking up Tmg, I think the style of compiler I described above is substantially different; Tmg is imperative, whereas my style is declarative
20:43:04 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155816&oldid=155811 * Junkshipp * (+2324)
20:46:41 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155817&oldid=155816 * Junkshipp * (-1) /* Abbreviations */
20:50:52 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155818&oldid=155817 * Junkshipp * (+82) /* Examples of monuseries */
21:10:45 <korvo> ais523: I'm struggling to find a difference when it comes to Futamura reasoning. We want the imperative action of *computing* the residue; it's not enough to merely declare that it exists, because we're concerned with the fine structure of the residue.
21:11:29 <ais523> korvo: well I was thinking about maybe using a different style of reasoning – if the compilers have a regular enough structure we may be able to find a function that composes the structure
21:11:54 <ais523> for example, imagine if the compilers are finite-state transducers; we know those compose because there's an algorithm for composing finite-state transducers
21:12:08 <korvo> Well, the compositions exist, if that's the concern. They're just not efficient.
21:13:47 <korvo> Given two Tmg programs and a TMG implementation for some machine M, we can compile both programs to M and then run them in sequence. And it seems like Tmg is sufficiently surjective as a computational system; if it can compile X to Y and Y to Z, then it should have a compiler from X to Z.
21:14:17 <korvo> But the partial evaluation of Tmg on Tmg seems as tough as any other partial evaluation.
21:17:47 <korvo> (There is a real concern, particularly with jank languages like Tmg, that the compiler-compiler will get stuck when compiling Y to Z if it sees invalid input. So we'd like these to be *correct* compilers, and the first compiler must always emit valid Y.)
21:50:23 <esolangs> [[Past Tense]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155819 * Rottytooth * (+1135) creating Past Tense page
21:51:06 <esolangs> [[Past Tense]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155820&oldid=155819 * Rottytooth * (-74) Cleaned up desc
21:51:36 <esolangs> [[User:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155821&oldid=154559 * Rottytooth * (+7) Added Past Tense
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21:54:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155823&oldid=155812 * Rottytooth * (+16) /* P */
21:55:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155824&oldid=155823 * Rottytooth * (+1) /* P */
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00:02:20 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155825 * Stkptr * (+8228) It's a start, I can't figure out the math formatting yet
00:02:56 <esolangs> [[Context-sensitive grammar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155826 * Stkptr * (+28) Redirected page to [[Formal grammar]]
00:03:07 <esolangs> [[Context-free grammar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155827 * Stkptr * (+28) Redirected page to [[Formal grammar]]
00:03:22 <esolangs> [[Unrestricted grammar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155828 * Stkptr * (+28) Redirected page to [[Formal grammar]]
00:04:12 <esolangs> [[Semi-Thue grammar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155829 * Stkptr * (+28) Redirected page to [[Formal grammar]]
00:05:35 <esolangs> [[Context-sensitive language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155830 * Stkptr * (+39) Redirected page to [[Context-sensitive grammar]]
00:16:04 <esolangs> [[User:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155831&oldid=154669 * Stkptr * (-100)
00:19:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Onechar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155832&oldid=152936 * Stkptr * (+122) Make it an actual message
01:07:20 <esolangs> [[Kolakoski sequence]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155833&oldid=155779 * PkmnQ * (+880) quick [[StackFlow]] implementation
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02:30:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155834&oldid=155415 * I am islptng * (-2463) Replaced content with "My notation for lambda calculus: 1. Lambda: (a:b) 2. Applyment: `ab"
02:40:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Patcail * New user account
02:43:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155835&oldid=155834 * I am islptng * (-2)
02:47:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155836&oldid=155781 * Patcail * (+137) Testing this
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03:02:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155837&oldid=155835 * I am islptng * (+1217)
03:08:44 <zzo38> Maybe, I should try to make up a i18n plugin API, instead of using that of Xlib (so that it can be used in other programs too)
03:49:24 <esolangs> [[ForkStack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155838 * L4.m2 * (+987) Created page with "'''ForkStack''' is a two-dimensional esoteric programming language based on stack. == Grammar == ForkStack starts from left-top facing right. When it goes to infinity far, it halts. * <code>F</code> Create a subprocess that turn right. After the subprocess halt, go on
03:50:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155839&oldid=155824 * L4.m2 * (+16)
03:51:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155840&oldid=155837 * I am islptng * (+122)
04:25:11 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155841&oldid=154779 * I am islptng * (+7)
04:26:17 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155842&oldid=155841 * I am islptng * (-6)
04:55:48 <lisbeths> https://github.com/memesmith0/calculator/blob/main/smallcalculator.c
05:25:00 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155843 * Patcail * (+4453) Created
06:03:53 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155844&oldid=155258 * Tpaefawzen * (+15) The program is represented as a
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06:26:21 <esolangs> [[ForkStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155845&oldid=155838 * L4.m2 * (+519) Add interpreter
06:32:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155846&oldid=155840 * I am islptng * (+759)
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07:04:40 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng/Lambda Calculus Tutorial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155847&oldid=155846 * I am islptng * (+95) FINALLY!! INTERPRETER!!!
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07:21:37 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
07:41:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155848&oldid=155694 * I am islptng * (+4113) /* Help needed! */ new section
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08:13:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155849&oldid=155848 * I am islptng * (-4113)
08:20:12 <esolangs> [[User:Lampe2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155850&oldid=130868 * Lampe2020 * (+45) Update my page
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11:02:59 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155851&oldid=155807 * PrySigneToFry * (+61)
11:16:13 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/Draft of EtPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155852&oldid=155644 * PrySigneToFry * (+2)
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12:04:20 <esolangs> [[Everyonelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155853&oldid=151540 * PrySigneToFry * (+166)
12:05:16 <esolangs> [[``abi2 hB8 7Vi 7iY]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155854 * PrySigneToFry * (+2439) Created page with "{{AKA|title=``<span style='font-family:XEGOEALL'>abi2 hB8 7Vi 7iY</span>}} {{WIP}} ``<span style='font-family:XEGOEALL'>abi2 hB8 7Vi 7iY</span> is an Esoteric Programming Language designed by PrySigneToFry, based on [https://wiki.xdi8.top/wiki/%E9%BB%
12:06:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155855&oldid=155839 * PrySigneToFry * (+25)
12:18:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HDPelmenRussianEdition * New user account
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13:13:54 <esolangs> [[User:RealGoatMan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155856&oldid=155361 * RealGoatMan * (+308)
13:14:56 <esolangs> [[User:RealGoatMan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155857&oldid=155856 * RealGoatMan * (+59)
13:19:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * RealGoatMan * uploaded "[[File:Wp7328513.jpg]]"
13:20:35 <esolangs> [[User:RealGoatMan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155859&oldid=155857 * RealGoatMan * (+90)
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13:34:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155860&oldid=155836 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+175) /* Introductions */
13:38:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155861&oldid=154919 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+190)
13:38:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155862&oldid=155861 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-189) /* RottenTree */
13:39:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155863&oldid=155862 * Ais523 * (-305) /* Tests */ clean sandbox
13:51:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155864&oldid=155863 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+112) /* Tests */
13:52:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155865&oldid=155864 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+16) /* Tests */
13:54:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155866&oldid=155865 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-33) /* Tests */
13:54:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155867&oldid=155866 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+20) /* Tests */
13:54:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155868&oldid=155867 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-4) /* Tests */
13:55:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155869&oldid=155868 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+41) /* Tests */
13:55:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155870&oldid=155869 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+4) /* Tests */
13:56:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155871&oldid=155870 * Ais523 * (-11) /* Tests */ you're probably trying to do this, I think?
13:56:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155872&oldid=155871 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+8) /* Tests */
13:57:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155873&oldid=155872 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-8) /* Tests */
13:57:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155874&oldid=155873 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-2) /* Implementation "RottenTree" in c++ */
14:07:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155875&oldid=155874 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+42)
14:07:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155876&oldid=155875 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-43) /* Implementation "RottenTree" in c++ */
14:08:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155877&oldid=155876 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-142) /* Implementation "RottenTree" in c++ */
14:08:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155878&oldid=155877 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+320) /* Tests */
14:08:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155879&oldid=155878 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-142) /* Implementation "RottenTree" in c++ */
14:09:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155880&oldid=155879 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-3) /* RottenTree */
14:09:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155881&oldid=155880 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-188) /* RottenTree */
14:11:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155882&oldid=155881 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+330)
14:11:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155883&oldid=155882 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-330)
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14:31:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:HDPelmenRussianEdition]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155884 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+328) Created page with "= RottenTree = RottenTree - is an esoteric data structure very similar to a regular tree. A special feature of "RottenTree" is that the pointer to the left and right branches is nullptr. ====Implementation "RottenTree" in c++====
14:36:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:HDPelmenRussianEdition]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155885&oldid=155884 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (-328) Blanked the page
14:45:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155886&oldid=155883 * Ais523 * (+13) restore "Tests" heading
14:50:19 <esolangs> [[RottenTree]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155887 * HDPelmenRussianEdition * (+328) Created page with "= RottenTree = RottenTree - is an esoteric data structure very similar to a regular tree. A special feature of "RottenTree" is that the pointer to the left and right branches is nullptr. ====Implementation "RottenTree" in c++==== struct RottenTree { i
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15:13:11 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155888&oldid=155689 * Darkloyd255 * (+957) Added more detail, hoping more people will contribute.
15:14:14 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155889&oldid=155888 * Darkloyd255 * (+9)
15:14:49 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155890&oldid=155889 * Darkloyd255 * (+21)
15:16:24 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155891&oldid=155890 * Darkloyd255 * (+9)
15:16:47 <esolangs> [[EsoEnglish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155892&oldid=155891 * Darkloyd255 * (+0)
15:18:13 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155893&oldid=155534 * Darkloyd255 * (+42) /* Lesser known programming languages */
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15:34:24 <ais523> ugh, the "Lesser known programming languages" is a specific set of languages and yet people are adding to it
15:34:37 <ais523> we might need to move that section to a page describing them specifically
15:34:52 <ais523> (that said, they had one-line joke descriptions, which some people fleshed out into full languages)
15:44:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PhoneDroid * New user account
15:57:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155894&oldid=155860 * PhoneDroid * (+280) PhoneDroid
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16:42:04 <fizzie> There is, apparently, already a page describing them specifically: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lesser_known_programming_languages
16:42:10 <fizzie> (It was linked from one of them.)
17:03:22 <esolangs> [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155895&oldid=155772 * Stkptr * (+130)
17:16:41 <esolangs> [[RottenTree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155896&oldid=155887 * Aadenboy * (-20) fixing formatting
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17:30:28 <esolangs> [[!/*]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155897 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+2545) Created page with "'''''WARNING: THIS PAGE IS WORK IN PROGRESS.''''' {{infobox proglang |name=<text> |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] |year=2025 |class=Total |files=.islst }} '''!/*''' or ''islst'' is a [[total]] language that is [[Category:Unusable_for_pro
17:49:56 <esolangs> [[!/*]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155898&oldid=155897 * Aadenboy * (-42) WIP template
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18:47:50 <esolangs> [[HAPPA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155899&oldid=155800 * RixTheTyrunt * (+9)
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19:40:36 <esolangs> [[Piet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155900&oldid=155084 * 5anz * (+0) /* Examples */
20:07:12 <FireFly> it's also linked from the heading of the subsection in [[Joke language list]] (but perhaps that should be a "Main article" kind of link instead
20:54:22 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155901&oldid=155855 * Buckets * (+11)
20:54:53 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155902&oldid=155813 * Buckets * (+10)
20:55:16 <esolangs> [[Legs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155903 * Buckets * (+1073) Created page with "Legs is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. (There is a restriction where It Has to Be Grammatically correct. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands* !! Instructions |- | p & r || Printing Start. The start Of every Word Is what is printed, f
21:13:57 <esolangs> [[Legs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155904&oldid=155903 * Buckets * (+534)
21:14:20 <esolangs> [[Legs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155905&oldid=155904 * Buckets * (+1)
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23:53:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155906&oldid=155642 * C++DSUCKER * (+303)
00:08:53 <esolangs> [[RottenTree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155907&oldid=155896 * Stkptr * (+40)
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01:16:45 <esolangs> [[T-rexes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155908 * Stkptr * (+2957) Create page
01:25:26 <esolangs> [[T-rexes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155909&oldid=155908 * Stkptr * (+374)
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01:28:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nope]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155910 * BestCoder * (+28) Created page with "it should be renamed to noop"
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01:32:47 <esolangs> [[Poke]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155911 * BestCoder * (+164) Created page with "you can poke anything == poke == poke [a] [b] - makes the [a]th letter be [b] == example == poke 1 n poke 2 o poke 3 poke 4 poke 6 poke 8 it says no"
01:33:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cat (Language)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155912 * BestCoder * (+4) Created page with "meow"
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01:34:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Recursive sleeping]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155913 * BestCoder * (+33) Created page with "i think i forgot the word "sleep""
01:36:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Calculus is fun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155914&oldid=151234 * BestCoder * (+66)
01:38:06 <esolangs> [[Be1-]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155915 * BestCoder * (+141) Created page with " bye - prints bye eniuq - prints the quine but backwards 11 cans of coke - variant of 99 bottles of beer minus - decreases the accumulator"
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01:40:13 <esolangs> [[Category:SP language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155916 * BestCoder * (+42) Created page with "The OPPOSITE of a general purpose language"
01:45:40 <esolangs> [[Incorrect]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155917 * BestCoder * (+338) Created page with " Incorrect - shuffles every word in the program, based on a condition Yes - makes condition yes No - makes condition no Correct - works if shuffled or not, will unshuffle everything [comment] - doesnt get shuffled or ran == example == Yes Incorrect No [half do
01:47:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:Spectr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155918 * BestCoder * (+5) Created page with "...um"
01:49:15 <esolangs> [[Fire]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155919 * BestCoder * (+225) Created page with "Python but with a new operation: "Fire", it will output true if you are near fire, and it will output false if you arent == example == print("fire tester") if Fire: print("OH MY GOD LEAVE") else: print("yeah you ok")"
02:02:11 <esolangs> [[Calculation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155920 * BestCoder * (+492) Created page with "language where you type operations == operations == 0-9 = their respective numbers A-Z = variables = = assign or equals, depends on context , = at end of statement # = line number expression of math = what it would be ? = is an if $ = if tried to get value
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02:33:04 <esolangs> [[Captive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155921&oldid=148391 * Rottytooth * (-1047) Removed eula section
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05:04:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155922&oldid=155851 * Hotcrystal0 * (+39)
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05:52:05 <esolangs> [[User:Patcail]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155923 * Patcail * (+68) Created page with "Models of computation I am looking at (hypercomputation): [[]]"
06:27:29 <esolangs> [[Rayofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155924 * Patcail * (+3518) Created page with "'''Rayofuck''' is an extension of [[brainfuck]] that adds a new set-theoretic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayo%27s_number Rayo's function]. This function is extremely fast growing that it outgrows all [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busy_beaver Busy beaver numbers],
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11:29:06 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Template:Shidinn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155929 * PrySigneToFry * (+49) Created page with "<span style='font-family:XEGOEALL'>{{{1}}}</span>"
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12:09:16 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155932&oldid=155743 * C++DSUCKER * (+636) Added results for Sigma
12:09:49 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155933&oldid=155932 * C++DSUCKER * (+0) i swapped the program and bitcount, this fixes it.
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14:27:10 <esolangs> [[X-script/Examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155938&oldid=150690 * PrySigneToFry * (+424)
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20:25:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155942&oldid=155901 * Buckets * (+15)
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20:26:32 <esolangs> [[Nor-Graf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155944 * Buckets * (+1238) Created page with "Nor-Graf is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | + || +1. |- | - || -1 |- | , || Create an Input node With identification n. |- | < || Create a Nor Gate. |- | > || Print The output
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00:19:50 <korvo> ais523: I'm imagining a structure for storing metacompiler programs. It would be like a git repo where every program has an associated triple, and the relevant query would be to ask for a path from one language to another upon an available metacompiler.
00:20:11 <korvo> Oh, the question, right. Did you build something like this for Esimpl already?
00:21:09 <ais523> not yet, I wanted to do something like that eventually but didn't get very far
00:21:52 <ais523> I got as far as finding a specification for Esimpl itself I was happy with, but have basically written none of the masses of tooling I eventually envisaged for it
00:23:28 <korvo> Okay, no worries. Did you write down any of your ideas? Right now I'm mostly just irritated with the fact that I'll have to assign names to languages injectively, which means that experimenting with dialects is going to be unfun.
00:24:38 <ais523> anything I did write down will be in the Esimpl article – and my ideas were basically all very high-level
00:25:06 <korvo> But the standard lore is isomorphic to what I've got so far. Like, there's technically no difference between "meta2-brainfuck-c" and anything I might dream up, besides improving the ergonomics over .split("-").
00:25:30 <ais523> I know that I wanted to build a single megaprogram that compiled between any supported languages, and implemented all the supported languages (possibly by compiling into Esimpl and interpreting itself), and had a quine-like ability to recompile itself into any supported language
00:25:54 <ais523> but I was planning to go between a common language, most likely Esimpl and restricted dialects of it
00:27:15 <korvo> Okay. Would it be important/valuable to you for a tool to support many different common languages, or would you prefer a tool that was specialized to just one common language?
00:27:17 <ais523> so all that's needed is (supported language) → Esimpl compilers, Esimpl → (supported language) compilers, and one interpreter for any of the supported langauges
00:28:03 <ais523> well, I mostly cared about the end result, and thought that going via one common language or a few very related common languages (e.g. stack-Esimpl and queue-Esimpl) would be the easiest way to do it, but I didn't particularly care about the implementation details
00:28:34 <ais523> (also, the bundle-an-interpreter compilation method is totally valid for this, so interpreters can be used in place of compilers if necessary)
00:29:25 <ais523> I basically see this as a pathfinding problem, but if there's only one common language then pathfinding is easy
00:30:15 <ais523> more generally, if the set of available compilations is a tree then pathfinding is easy, but this is complicated by the possibility of compilations possibly being one-way and it's unclear how a tree generalises to directed grpahs in this case
00:30:57 <korvo> Even if the tree has to be loaded incrementally from a database, there's an admissible A* heuristic which says "at least one more".
00:31:47 <korvo> Which I know is not exactly efficient, but it is technically A* and thus I should receive a good grade~
00:32:21 <ais523> I assumed I might be writing large parts of this in raw Esimpl, so i didn't want to make the pathfinding (or anything else, really) more complicated than it has to be
00:32:37 <ais523> although, if I have a compiler from anything higher-level to Esimpl I could just write in that as the original language
00:32:51 <ais523> (I don't have such a compiler, though, yet, and making a good choice of high-level language could be difficult)
00:33:38 <ais523> oh! I remember one of my plans now – I was going to adapt an existing parser-generator to output in Esimpl, so I could write the parsers in a high-level language
00:34:32 <ais523> Esimpl can implement a shift/reduce parsing automaton really easily
00:42:17 <korvo> Ah, that makes sense.
00:48:00 <ais523> a parser + pretty-printer (that use the same AST format but for two different languages) is actually sufficient to transpile many simple esolangs
00:50:15 <ais523> although Esimpl isn't a great target for doing that directly due to its need to number things, so you might need some way to generate sequence numbers in the resulting code
00:51:48 <ais523> ah, now it's starting to come back – I also had an idea for something that converted control-flow graphs (represented using block structure like BF's []) into numbered basic blocks, primarily for that purpose
00:53:08 <korvo> Yep. I've been spending a lot of time today pondering that. Cammy doesn't have a character type yet, but ignoring that, a parser is just a particularly fun monad in the folklore, and the relevant writer-monad transformer just returns a list of emitted lines.
00:53:52 <korvo> META II emits lines and can be transformed into something which gives character-level control within a line. So can Tmg. So can either of them emit a Cammy program? If so, it'd be the easiest way to import parsing theory into Cammy.
00:54:46 <ais523> hmm, maybe I'll see if there's a challenge for this on codegolf SE yet
00:55:12 <ais523> probably converting BF [] into a list of numbered transitions
00:55:38 <korvo> I suspect that the big issue is that both META II and Tmg have some sort of implicit general recursion disguised as explicit structural recursion. I don't know how dire that gets, but I'd need to find a well-founded counter for every recursive rule or figure out something else.
00:56:56 <ais523> oh, if *that*'s the problem, many parsing styles like LR(1) have recursion depth bounded by the number of tokens in the input, because pushing a stack entry (either call stack or state stack, depending on how it's implemented) can only happen when reading a token
00:58:29 <ais523> "write a parser automaton that you can prove total" is a topic that I'm really interested in, because a parser that's proven total and correct is also a proof that the grammar is unambiguous
00:59:14 <ais523> and producing those eventually turns into a universal test of reasoning power because determining context-free grammar unambiguity is Turing-complete
01:00:55 <korvo> Oh! Both META II and Tmg should admit Earley grammars. So I can just encode an Earley machine and spend cubic time at worst. Still a lot of work, but plausible.
01:02:14 <korvo> META II is interesting because it *should* encode PEGs but I can't quite work out how everything comes together. Probably not motivated enough.
01:03:59 <ais523> hmm, now I'm wondering whether it's decidable whether a CFG has a linear-time parsing algorithm; my guess is no but I'm not at all sure
01:04:32 <ais523> oh, clearly undecidable, you can come up with parser rules that are only reachable if a certain TM halts
01:04:46 <ais523> and if it doesn't halt the language parses in linear time
01:05:08 <ais523> (this is assuming that there's at least one CFG that can't be parsed in linear-time, which seems likely but maybe hasn't been proven?)
01:05:48 <ais523> anyway, I should sleep
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01:05:58 <korvo> But note that you can decide whether a CFG has any associated PEGs which accept a subset; just try converting the unordered choices to ordered choices in all possible ways.
01:06:07 <korvo> Oh, right, EU time. Sorry! Night.
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06:47:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Soxfox * New user account
06:49:53 <esolangs> [[Beeping cyclic tag]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155948 * Patcail * (+1797) Created page with "'''Beeping Cyclic Tag''' aims to be super-Turing complete tarpit inspired by [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] (i.e. this program is as powerful as a Turing machine augmented with an oracle). This is a very rudimentary [[Turing tarpit|Turing Tarpit]] that is stronger t
06:50:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155949&oldid=155894 * Soxfox * (+168)
06:50:40 <esolangs> [[User:Patcail]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155950&oldid=155926 * Patcail * (+24)
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09:36:08 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155951 * None1 * (+2237) Created page with "'''FooProg''' is a high-level, bytecode-compiled esolang invented by [[User:None1]] in 2023. Like its name, its author doesn't consider it important. In 2023, the compiler, disassembler and IDE written in Python (3.10+) and the bytecode interpreter written in Python and
09:38:43 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155952&oldid=155697 * None1 * (+39) /* Basic area */
09:39:09 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155953&oldid=155952 * None1 * (+27) /* Examples */
09:39:23 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155954&oldid=155953 * None1 * (+0) /* Infinite loop */
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09:52:45 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155955&oldid=155951 * None1 * (+24)
10:16:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155956&oldid=155942 * None1 * (+14) /* F */
10:19:14 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155957&oldid=155347 * None1 * (+65) /* My Esolangs */
10:40:38 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155958&oldid=155954 * PrySigneToFry * (+31)
10:40:58 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155959&oldid=155958 * PrySigneToFry * (-4)
11:19:36 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155960&oldid=155934 * C++DSUCKER * (-26663)
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11:32:58 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155961&oldid=155960 * C++DSUCKER * (+167)
11:37:52 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155962&oldid=155720 * JIT * (+3557)
11:43:37 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155963&oldid=155962 * JIT * (+0) /* Programs */
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12:57:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheSpiderNinjas * New user account
13:09:02 <esolangs> [[Onechar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155964&oldid=155798 * Cycwin * (+131) /* The interpreter of Onechar */
13:11:04 <esolangs> [[Onechar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155965&oldid=155964 * Cycwin * (+0) /* The interpreter of Onechar */
13:11:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155966&oldid=155949 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+295) TheSpiderNinjas' Introduction
13:12:43 <esolangs> [[Onechar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155967&oldid=155965 * Cycwin * (+2) /* The interpreter of Onechar */
13:14:07 <esolangs> [[Onechar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155968&oldid=155967 * Cycwin * (-11) /* The interpreter of Onechar */
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13:59:59 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155969&oldid=155941 * C++DSUCKER * (+20)
14:02:16 <esolangs> [[EternalGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155970&oldid=155959 * PrySigneToFry * (+28)
14:08:51 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155971&oldid=155969 * C++DSUCKER * (+1)
14:36:06 <esolangs> [[Revolution 9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155972&oldid=155591 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2098) Introduced an examples sections intrining as its incipial members a Hello, World! printer, a repeating cat program, and a truth-machine, added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, and altered the Unimplemented page category to Implemented.
14:37:19 <esolangs> [[Revolution 9]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155973&oldid=155972 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2) Amended a section header's level.
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14:49:23 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155974&oldid=155963 * JIT * (+72) /* Programs */
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16:29:22 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155975&oldid=155898 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+527)
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16:31:44 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155977&oldid=155976 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-186)
16:32:13 <esolangs> [[!/*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155978&oldid=155977 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-12)
16:33:59 <esolangs> [[!/*]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155979&oldid=155978 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+24) /* Error handling */
16:37:17 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155980&oldid=155443 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-543)
16:40:00 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155981 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+239) Created page with "Good afternoon! I am TenBillionPlusOne, also known as TBPO, PiSpaceships or KapitanGamer. == My esolangs == * [[BooleanFunge]] is Befunge but operating on bits. * [[!/*]] is a totally uninteresting total esolang unusable for programming."
16:41:18 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155982&oldid=155980 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-156)
16:42:03 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155983&oldid=155452 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-781) Redirected page to [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]]
16:42:30 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155984&oldid=155982 * TenBillionPlusOne * (-53)
16:48:50 <esolangs> [[User:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155985&oldid=155981 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+198)
16:55:43 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155986&oldid=155984 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+43)
17:38:01 <esolangs> [[Poke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155987&oldid=155911 * Stkptr * (+80)
17:40:25 <esolangs> [[Be1-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155988&oldid=155915 * Stkptr * (+116)
17:40:31 <esolangs> [[Poke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155989&oldid=155987 * Stkptr * (+19)
17:44:26 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155990&oldid=155843 * Stkptr * (+29) It can model all computable sets
17:44:47 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155991&oldid=155990 * Stkptr * (+4) /* Computational Class */
17:47:19 <esolangs> [[Rayofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155992&oldid=155924 * Stkptr * (+29) It's at least Turing complete, I don't know if the wiki will have greater categories anytime soon
17:54:47 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155993&oldid=153070 * Aadenboy * (+201) random
17:54:58 <esolangs> [[Calculation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155994&oldid=155920 * Stkptr * (+112)
17:55:13 <esolangs> [[Beeping cyclic tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155995&oldid=155948 * Patcail * (+541)
17:55:55 <esolangs> [[Beeping cyclic tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155996&oldid=155995 * Patcail * (-1)
17:58:54 <esolangs> [[Incorrect]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155997&oldid=155917 * Stkptr * (+111)
18:04:55 <esolangs> [[Consequential]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155998&oldid=102935 * Gapples2 * (+1186) tc proof
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18:29:16 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155999&oldid=155986 * Stkptr * (+61)
18:31:08 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156000&oldid=155955 * Stkptr * (+35) "Long doubles"
18:31:39 <esolangs> [[Revolution 9]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156001&oldid=155973 * Stkptr * (+0) /* Interpreter */
18:48:07 <esolangs> [[Meta Minsky Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156002 * Patcail * (+2171) Created page with "'''Meta Minsky Machine''' (MMM) is a hyperarithmetic language which allows for it to ask about its own halting. Specifically, it allows for paradoxical programs if their simulation structure is not well-founded. == Specification == There are three register
18:48:50 <esolangs> [[User:Patcail]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156003&oldid=155950 * Patcail * (+25)
18:48:57 <esolangs> [[T-rexes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156004&oldid=155909 * Stkptr * (+6)
18:50:39 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156005&oldid=152531 * C++DSUCKER * (-110)
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19:32:12 <int-e> Oh there's some Factorio speedrunning related drama around a "fix" that raised the requirements of a bunch of enemy related achievements so that current 100% runs would no longer trigger them. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=128162
19:32:32 <int-e> (discussion starts about 5 replies in)
19:38:23 <esolangs> [[T-rexes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156006&oldid=156004 * Stkptr * (+765)
19:38:34 <int-e> Hah. "Watch the devs rollback that bugfix and add a new achievement for 'finish the game in 40 hours with default settings'" (The starting point of all of this is that 100% doesn't use default settings.)
19:38:56 <esolangs> [[T-rexes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156007&oldid=156006 * Stkptr * (+2)
19:44:00 <esolangs> [[T-rexes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156008&oldid=156007 * Stkptr * (+2)
19:44:51 <b_jonas> int-e: or they'll just be playing old versions from now on
19:45:14 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156009&oldid=156005 * C++DSUCKER * (+272)
19:45:28 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156010&oldid=156009 * C++DSUCKER * (+0)
19:45:28 <int-e> TBH I expect a 90% (whatever the precise math works out to) category. Or a mod, but wouldn't that completely disable achievements instead?
19:45:49 <int-e> Unless Wube can be persuaded but that doesn't seem to be the case.
19:47:22 <int-e> (I have no horse in this race, just opinions)
19:47:38 <b_jonas> although I think it might get reverted rather than merged into the stable branch
19:48:26 <b_jonas> it's a very old legacy bug, present long before Factorio 2, so it probably counts as a feature now. if they apply this, new players will be on unequal footing in getting the achivements, even outside of speedrunning.
19:48:36 <int-e> Hmm? It's in version 2.0.45, isn't that a stable one?
19:49:06 <int-e> (Re: no horse... I don't even have the game)
19:49:50 <b_jonas> no, they release versions as unstable, and after like two or four such versions, they put it onto the stable branch. the game is by default configured to only update to stable versions, though you can make it update to unstable.
19:51:14 <b_jonas> at least part of it is a genuine bug, as in the game shouldn't have worked that way, but it's an ascended bug now
19:51:22 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156011&oldid=156010 * Stkptr * (+107)
19:52:06 <int-e> Ah, I see. 2.0.42 is currently stable. That was not obvious at all. (I found the info on https://direct.factorio.com/download/experimental )
19:54:17 <b_jonas> as in the achievements are disabled if you enable the "peaceful" setting, which means that enemies don't attack from pollution or proximity, they only attack if you damage them. so achievement runs don't set "pacific". but they instead set the pollution settings so pollution doesn't spread at all, which is close enough for practical purposes: if pollution doesn't spread at all then you just have to make
19:54:23 <b_jonas> sure you don't pollute in the same chunk (aligned 32×32 tile square) as a biter base, and don't go close enough to a biter to trigger proximity attack, and you're fine. you can just build your base without the enemies bothering you. (except you do have to trigger a small attack once or twice for specific achievements)
19:54:56 <b_jonas> this is exactly why there are experimental releases: advanced players can test them and find big problems like this.
19:55:06 <int-e> funny, thedoh went full frontal assault mode and asked about biter base spawn blocking https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=128208
19:56:10 <b_jonas> that was known for months, it's not related to this
19:56:47 <b_jonas> "makes it trivial to deal with biters" is not true by the way, for an all achievements run
19:57:13 <int-e> But has Wube "officially ruled" on it? It's a good thing to clarify that it's not a bug so it hopefully won't be fixed in a future update.
19:57:14 <b_jonas> that strategy can be useful, but "trivial" is a big exaggeration.
19:57:24 <int-e> Pretty sure thedoh is being sarcastic.
19:57:59 <b_jonas> that thread https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?t=128208 is in the "not a bug" folder, so the ruling is not a bug
19:58:31 <int-e> I've watched a few of her runs and seen some comments on other streams and that seems to fit her general disposition.
20:00:22 <int-e> b_jonas: I'm not disputing that it's now classified as "not a bug". The post is from today and came after the other "bugfix", where the justification is that achievements shouldn't be trivialized.
20:02:59 <b_jonas> sure, but since that one doesn't trivialize the achievements so not a bug is a reasonable take
20:18:09 <korvo> Unrelated: "I should just use an existing portable assembly language" is such a trap. Java, OCaml, and Go all offer something like that and it's not worth it.
20:18:52 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156012&oldid=155971 * C++DSUCKER * (+21)
20:34:29 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/brainfuck program naming scheme]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156013 * Aadenboy * (+248) draft
20:51:48 <korvo> b_jonas: Maybe? WASM's not bad, but GC is still a pain.
20:53:32 <esolangs> [[Metacompiler]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156014 * Corbin * (+1995) Stub a concept. This is actually fairly complete, though!
20:55:02 <korvo> Can somebody double-check the orientation of the languages in [[Metacompiler]]? I think I got it right; the metacompiler in [[META II]] is the given program, and then there's a bootstrapping artifact in an assembly language which can regenerate itself under that metacompiler.
20:55:44 <korvo> Which means that in terms of build-host-target, the metacompiler is written in the host language, and the fixed point connects build and target. Which feels backwards.
20:56:14 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156015&oldid=156011 * Stkptr * (+527)
20:58:34 <korvo> I wrote some local scripts to test this out, including an interpreter for META II's original assembly language which can regenerate a fixed point. I'd test with Tmg but its metacompiler is quite a bit larger!
20:58:55 <int-e> korvo: What do you mean by "GC is still a pain"? (GC wouldn't be at my top of requirements for a portable assembly language, but maybe I misunderstand the connection)
20:59:42 <korvo> int-e: I'm mostly compiling high-level functional constructions and have gotten used to having a GC. I'd need to do a lot of monomorphizing and defunctionalizing to squeeze into WASM's way of doing things.
21:00:23 <korvo> There's a WASM-GC extension that was ratified a year or two ago, but support is spotty and none of the runtimes are very efficient yet.
21:01:20 <korvo> I guess I could just write my own WASM interpreter.
21:02:30 <korvo> Ugh, okay, I need to rephrase some of [[Metacompiler]] to not suck. Lunch first though.
21:04:44 <int-e> okay. yeah they barely have dynamic memory allocation (memory.grow)
21:11:10 <b_jonas> korvo: re "existing portable assembly language", see https://www.linusakesson.net/games/stranded64/index.php
21:49:12 <esolangs> [[Durge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156016 * Imakesi * (+361) Created page with "DURGE DURGE IMPLEMENT DURGE ```python print("DURGE") ``` DURGE CODE ```DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE ``` DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE DURGE WHAT
21:49:59 <esolangs> [[Durge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156017&oldid=156016 * Imakesi * (-92)
21:54:57 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156018&oldid=155893 * Imakesi * (+59)
22:00:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156019&oldid=155956 * Buckets * (+11)
22:02:03 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156020&oldid=155943 * Buckets * (+10)
22:02:31 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156021 * Buckets * (+1914) Created page with "{{Lowercase}} is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. has infinite Commands; Most of them are Non-Unicode characters. But for demonstration Purposes, This Page will show them as Overlapped Unicode Characters. Most Dialects are Overlapped
22:02:54 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156022&oldid=156021 * Buckets * (+0)
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22:20:48 <esolangs> [[Meta Minsky Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156023&oldid=156002 * Patcail * (+45)
22:24:20 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156024&oldid=155581 * Buckets * (+154)
22:24:40 <esolangs> [[????]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156025 * Imakesi * (+690) Created page with ""????" is a language that only operates in "if" statements. It is made to intentionally do nothing except the "????" print statement that prints "?" (what the esolang is named after). "?" initiates an if statement, and then "??" on the next line for true, or "???" for false
22:25:41 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156026&oldid=156018 * Imakesi * (+42)
22:27:15 <esolangs> [[????]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156027&oldid=156025 * Imakesi * (+161)
22:29:41 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156028&oldid=156024 * Buckets * (+0)
22:33:04 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156029&oldid=156028 * Buckets * (-28)
22:40:15 <zzo38> I would think that how important GC is would depend what the portable assembly language is being used for.
22:47:18 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156030&oldid=156029 * Buckets * (+260)
22:50:16 <esolangs> [[????]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156031&oldid=156027 * Imakesi * (-282)
22:52:02 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156032&oldid=156030 * Buckets * (+16) /* Hello, World! */
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22:52:16 <esolangs> [[????]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156033&oldid=156031 * Imakesi * (+750)
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23:06:54 <korvo> b_jonas: Oh wow, what a fun story. It is really interesting to think about how emulation is merely a 2-4x slowdown, which is sometimes not that much.
23:08:35 <esolangs> [[Metalanguage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156034 * Stkptr * (+3314) Create page
23:11:12 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156035&oldid=154816 * Soxfox * (-70) Revert edits that broke alignment
23:16:14 <esolangs> [[Metacompiler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156036&oldid=156014 * Stkptr * (+296) Link to metalanguage, more to add
23:19:18 <esolangs> [[Metalanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156037&oldid=156034 * Stkptr * (+240)
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23:31:07 <esolangs> [[Metalanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156038&oldid=156037 * Stkptr * (+142) sectios
23:34:58 <esolangs> [[????]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156039&oldid=156033 * Stkptr * (+134)
23:36:59 <esolangs> [[Durge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156040&oldid=156017 * Stkptr * (+140)
23:39:51 <esolangs> [[Oracle machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156041&oldid=153979 * Stkptr * (+146)
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01:45:33 <esolangs> [[VFUSL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156042 * AlmostGalactic * (+2681) Created page with "= VFUSL = '''VFUSL''' (Very Full Stack Language) is a stack-based esoteric programming language where every operation is added to the stack and executed at runtime. It's designed with a mix of simplicity and flexibility, inspired by Reverse Polish Notation and oth
03:58:55 <esolangs> [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156043&oldid=154955 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-7)
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05:05:32 <esolangs> [[VFUSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156044&oldid=156042 * Stkptr * (+457)
05:11:45 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156045&oldid=156000 * None1 * (+7)
05:25:26 <esolangs> [[Pseudocode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156046&oldid=155178 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-328) delete
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07:23:51 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156047 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+6363) Created page with "'''Unvague''' is an esolang designed by [[User:JHSHernandez-ZBH]] based on [[Vague]] and is completely compatible with it but with a few special commands. First, a stack is pushed on the stack stack, the input is taken as a binary number, the number seperated
07:24:17 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156048&oldid=156047 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
07:28:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156049&oldid=155886 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+35)
07:30:39 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156050&oldid=156048 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+26)
07:33:41 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156051&oldid=156050 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-3)
07:38:51 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156052&oldid=156051 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
07:40:17 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156053&oldid=156052 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-17)
07:40:37 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156054&oldid=156053 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+24)
07:41:06 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156055&oldid=156054 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
07:48:04 <esolangs> [[Transposed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156056&oldid=86418 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-8) /* Basic description of language */
07:48:19 <esolangs> [[Transposed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156057&oldid=156056 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) /* Basic description of language */
09:01:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156058&oldid=137326 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+45)
09:01:47 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156059&oldid=156058 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
09:02:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156060&oldid=156059 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-45)
09:03:31 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156061&oldid=151294 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+44)
09:05:14 <esolangs> [[Vague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156062&oldid=156061 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+25) /* Examples */
09:05:35 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156063&oldid=156062 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+7) /* Examples */
09:07:18 <esolangs> [[Vague]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156064&oldid=156063 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+33) /* Examples */
09:07:31 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156065&oldid=156064 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+1) /* Examples */
09:10:09 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156066&oldid=156065 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) /* Examples */
09:10:53 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156067&oldid=156066 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) /* Examples */
09:11:52 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156068&oldid=156067 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) /* Examples */
09:12:15 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156069&oldid=156068 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+7) /* Examples */
09:12:30 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156070&oldid=156069 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) /* Examples */
09:12:42 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156071&oldid=156070 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-6) /* Examples */
09:13:03 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156072&oldid=156071 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+5) /* Examples */
09:13:26 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156073&oldid=156072 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-7) /* Examples */
09:15:27 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156074&oldid=156073 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+21) /* Examples */
09:15:35 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156075&oldid=156074 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+1) /* Examples */
09:16:17 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156076&oldid=156075 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+10)
09:21:07 <esolangs> [[Befunk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156077&oldid=129625 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+69) /* Language overview */
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09:40:33 <esolangs> [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156078&oldid=145645 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
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10:03:20 <esolangs> [[Selter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156079 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+2933) Selter Page Creation
10:04:27 <esolangs> [[User:TheSpiderNinjas]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156080 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+40) TheSpiderNinjas' Page
10:07:10 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156081&oldid=156019 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+13) Added Selter to Language List
10:09:30 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156082&oldid=155686 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+63) Added Selter To WIP
10:10:15 <esolangs> [[User:TheSpiderNinjas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156083&oldid=156080 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+19) added to my page
10:10:49 <esolangs> [[Selter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156084&oldid=156079 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+8) add WIP to page
10:12:14 <wib_jonas> so you know how I want to make a column-sensitive language? the columns that tokens are in are significant in that each column works as a variable name. you put a mark in a column to indicate that you're accessing that variable.
10:12:17 <wib_jonas> in the fictional history, just like Fortran this was invented with the source on fixed-width punch cards, but these days the sources are ordinary unix ascii text files. unix text files complicate the matter because now you can use tab characters.
10:12:21 <wib_jonas> in the wimpmode, a linefeed or carriage return resets the column to 0, a printable character or space advances the column by 1, and a tab jumps the column to the first tab stop that is strictly after the current column.
10:12:30 <wib_jonas> the programmer can define tab stops as a list of column positions and a mark for where the distances start to repeat periodically after the last explicitly marked tab stop column.
10:12:35 <wib_jonas> in normal mode, the columns are notionally determined by reading the file backwards: a linefeed or carriage return resets the column to -1, a printable character or space advances the column by -1,
10:12:39 <wib_jonas> a tab jumps to the column with the first tab stop that is strictly before the current column. the tab stops repeat infinitely with periodical distances to the left instead of to the right.
10:12:42 <wib_jonas> only the columns are determined backwards, finding the tokens and syntax still goes forward as usual, you just assign column numbers to those tokens backwards.
10:12:45 <wib_jonas> while there are editors that handle the variable tab stops for wimpmode, I don't think there's any editor or even viewer that handles the normal mode.
10:12:50 <wib_jonas> I just checked Winword, because it has customizable tab stops. but when I try to put tabs into a right-aligned line, the position of the text becomes weird, I don't understand what the rule is, it's not just aligned to tab stops in any way.
10:12:54 <wib_jonas> this is even better news than I was hoping for: I thought maybe Winword handles normal mode fine, maybe it can align to tab stops but not the correct tab stops (eg. starts from the left instead of from the right).
10:12:57 <wib_jonas> I can write an example program in normal mode, and not only will you not be able to edit it properly, you won't even be able to view it without a specialized program.
10:14:16 <wib_jonas> that said, there might be other software out there that does handle the tab stop rules for normal mode and I'm just not aware of.
10:15:42 <wib_jonas> I have some parts of the language figured out, but not all. I'm especially unsure about the control flow, though I do have an idea.
10:17:09 <wib_jonas> oh, also for mutli-character tokens, the column of the token is the column of its first character in wimpmode but the column of its last character in normal mode so that you can usefully access the columns close to the right edge
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11:51:34 <strerror> Right aligned, sounds like it could be from a history where the punch cards are invented by arabs
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11:54:31 <wib_jonas> strerror: no, if it's just a language that you write from right to left then you'd have the characters in the text file from right to left. that's just a mirroring of left to right text files and doesn't cause any complications. the trick here is that the characters are still listed in the source file left to write, but the columns are numbered
11:54:31 <wib_jonas> from right to left, and the lines can have variable lengths, so you don't know the column numbers until you read a whole line.
11:58:36 <wib_jonas> If you ignore the column dependence and tabs in the middle of a line, I think back aligned lines could actually be useful (in a semi-esoteric way) to write programs this way in a programming language built around that.
11:58:39 <wib_jonas> You'd use a language that is written in kind of reverse polish notation, as in arguments first then function name in a function call, or rvalue first then the lvalue in an assignment. You're typing it from left to right, since this is more natural when you're nesting lots of function calls, such as an APL-like.
11:58:40 <wib_jonas> You write a value, then you transform it with a function. But the code would be displayed on screen right-aligned, so that the top-level function call or the variable that you are assigning to is near the right of the screen, and you can easily scan the code for where a local variable is assigned.
11:59:17 <wib_jonas> You can still have indentation, which means tabs or spaces at the end of lines indicating blocks, shifting the right edge of the lines a bit to the left from the right margin of the paper.
12:00:40 <wib_jonas> But there the right-aligned presentation doesn't change the semantics, you just display the code that way to make it easier for the programmer to understand.
12:01:03 <wib_jonas> Whereas in the column-oriented language the right-aligned actually matters for the semantics.
12:01:52 <wib_jonas> For just right-aligned presentation you could write the code in Wordpad or any other formatted text editor, or run statements interactively in a HTML-based worksheet, you'd just set the textareas and other text right-aligned.
12:02:24 <wib_jonas> And that does still work for column-oriented just as long as you don't use tabs.
12:02:46 <wib_jonas> So for maximal esoteric, I want to use tabs in the source code.
12:03:18 <wib_jonas> Well, not maximal esoteric, there are subjective aesthetic considerations for what kind of esoteric I want.
12:03:44 <wib_jonas> I have some rather specific ideas about the notation, I can tell about them if someone is curious.
12:05:13 <strerror> I was imagining an alternate wimpmode (reverse each line?) which could be handled by an RTL text editor, but perhaps not.
12:06:12 <strerror> Column oriented also makes me think of network sequence diagrams
12:09:18 <wib_jonas> you could kind of write the code in wimpmode in a normal text editor, then try to reverse every line to get normal mode. this doesn't quite work, because you have to reverse again each token, and in some rare cases that could break the program because what should be two separate tokens runs together into one token that you should have separated
12:09:18 <wib_jonas> with a space. in particular, this would happen if you have a minus sign right after a numeric literal, because when you reverse the tokens they'll merge into a numeric literal with negative instead of a subtraction. but if you pay attention to rare cases like that, this can be an easy way to write a normal mode program.
12:10:37 <wib_jonas> (minus isn't actually a subtraction, but it has a normal function and I want to overload it to negative sign when it's before a digit)
12:16:28 <wib_jonas> I'm planning one special syntax that really breaks when you reverse the lines, but you can still write programs reversed if you are deliberately planning the program to only work with lines reversed and not in wimpmode.
12:19:32 <wib_jonas> Namely although almost every other token refers to at most a single column, I'm planning to handle C-like block scoped variables with a brace block that makes every column to the left (right in wimpmode) of the braces local (refer to new local variable names unrelated to those outside the braces; but columns to the right (left in wimpmode) of the
12:19:33 <wib_jonas> braces are not localized, they refer to the same variable names as in the surrounding scope.
12:20:31 <wib_jonas> you have a bigger problem with reversing every line even without the braces
12:20:57 <wib_jonas> I was wrong above, you can't just reverse a wimpmode program to get a normal progra
12:21:40 <wib_jonas> The trick is that function calls and other constructs are executed in the order they appear in the source, so if there are two function calls in the same line they'll run in the opposite order if you reverse the lines
12:22:17 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156085&oldid=155961 * C++DSUCKER * (+0)
12:22:21 <wib_jonas> this isn't a problem if you write every call into a separate line, and though you certainly can do that, it can result in sparser code
12:24:11 <wib_jonas> nor is it a problem if the two calls commute and don't access the same variable. but you will very often want to pass a value from one function to the other in the same line, which breaks, and even without that if both functions have side effects that can be a problem
12:25:32 <wib_jonas> as for the braces, I'll probably have to define them so that you can use either the left-facing or right-facing localization in either wimpmode or normal mode, it's just that localizing variables on the left (right in wimpmode) is more natural style.
12:27:27 <wib_jonas> but the braces really don't work well if you mirror when there's a reference to a variable in the same line as the brace, because a reference in an earlier token (to the left) from the opening brace is never localized, while a reference after it would be localized by right-localization; similarly a reference in the same line as a closing brace but
12:27:27 <wib_jonas> after (to the right) of it is never local, but int he same line before the closing brace would be local for left-localization
12:29:11 <wib_jonas> but still, if you are planning from the start to reverse the program, you could write it reversed in a normal text editor, it just wouldn't work in wimpmode
12:29:30 <wib_jonas> alternately you can write a normal mode program in a right-aligned text editor but without tabs, and then later unexpand the tabs
12:30:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Onechar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156086&oldid=155832 * Cycwin * (+170) So my English is really not good....
12:31:50 <wib_jonas> though of course for style you might not want to unexpand *all* spaces to tabs, sometimes you'd use a tab to delimit a range of columns that logically form a group, but in other parts of the program a logical group is too wide so it spans across that tab stop so you'd use spaces within it
12:37:56 <wib_jonas> I'll try to explain some of the syntax. Every token in the source code is either an opcode or an accent. An operation is made from an opcode and zero or more accents attached to it. The opcode is typically the name of a function, but there are other opcodes for eg. defining a function or control flow or the above mentioned braces for localization.
12:38:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF busy beaver]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156087 * C++DSUCKER * (+189) Created page with "I though the definition of a busy beaver 'takes the most steps' not 'takes the most specific steps? ~~~~"
12:40:01 <wib_jonas> The simplest accents are the backtick and the apostrophe. The backtick ` is attached to the first opcode following it (which may or may not be in the same line), and denotes an input operand for that operation. Imagine it as a little L-shaped pipe that captures the variable from the column above and directs it to the opcode to its right (though it
12:40:02 <wib_jonas> may actually be to its left in a later line, in which case the graphical metaphor breaks). Similarly an apostrophe ' is attached to the last opcode preceding it (which may or may not be in the same line), and denotes an input operand for that operation.
12:40:33 <wib_jonas> A comma is attached to the first opcode after it and denotes an output operand, while a dot is attached to the last opcode before it and denotes an output operand.
12:41:55 <wib_jonas> Now an operation may have one additional input operand besides those that it gets from accents, namely the one in the column of the opcode itself, which is the last (first in wimpmode) column of that opcode token. Similarly it may have one additional output operand besides those it gets from accents, the column of the opcode itself.
12:43:24 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156088 * PrySigneToFry * (+2979) Created page with " is a programming language designed by PSTF, inspired from [[SLet (Old 3)|SLet 3]]. ==Data types== In this esolang, there is 5 data types. : Fraction/Float. Size is unlimited. Division by 0 is NaN. : or . Pair: A pair of objects. One former value and one latter valu
12:44:13 <wib_jonas> Whether the extra input operand or output operand is actually present is determined from the number of input operands and output operands that the opcode expects. Opcodes can be overloaded with the same name and multiple different number of operands, but if two opcodes with the same name have input operand counts that differ by at most one and
12:44:13 <wib_jonas> output operand count that differs by at most one that's an error.
12:44:18 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156089&oldid=156088 * PrySigneToFry * (+5)
12:45:00 <wib_jonas> So you can define a function with 1 input and 1 output, another with 3 inputs and 1 output, another with 6 inputs and 1 output, and another with 2 inputs and 3 outputs, all four with the same name.
12:45:05 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156090&oldid=156081 * PrySigneToFry * (+13)
12:46:36 <wib_jonas> For functions, the input operands and output operands just mean the obvious thing, an input operand loads the variable from a column and passes it as argument to the function, while an output operand gets a return value from the function and stores it to the local variable in the column of that operand. For special opcodes that aren't functions,
12:46:36 <wib_jonas> the meanings can be different from this, but the syntax of how the operands are determined is the same.
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12:48:11 <esolangs> [[BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156091&oldid=140520 * PrySigneToFry * (+190)
12:49:27 <wib_jonas> In particular, according to the current plans, the opcode foo& starts the definition of a function named foo with an even number of input arguments, and the output operands of that foo& opcode are variables where those arguments will be stored in the function. Similarly foo% starts the definition of a function named foo with an odd number of input
12:49:27 <wib_jonas> arguments. There must be two separate sigils or else it would be ambiguous if the opcode uses its own column as one of the output operands (i.e. a local variable to store one more argument).
12:50:30 <wib_jonas> Now there are more accents than the four I mentioned above. Three will definitely make the cut, I'm still thinking about the rest. The tilde ~ is similar to the backtick in that it is an input operand for the following opcode, and the caret ^ is similar to the apostrophe in that it's an input operand for the preceding opcode.
12:51:58 <wib_jonas> How these differ is that the order of operands matter, and these let you put the operands in different order. In particular, the order of the input operands is: first the carets from last to first, then the backticks from first to last, then optionally the opcode itself, then apostrophes from first to last, then tildes from last to first.
12:52:39 <wib_jonas> If you don't care about how long your code is then backtick and apostrophe are enough: just put each accent in a separate line and then they'll be used as operands in that order. But the caret and tilde lets you write more compact code.
12:54:58 <wib_jonas> The seventh accent is the minus - which is both an output operand for the previous opcode and an input operand for the next opcode. The column of the minus doesn't matter, in that this doesn't refer to a variable, instead if connects an output directly to an input. But the source code order that the minus accent appears before or after other tokens
12:54:59 <wib_jonas> still matters to determine the order of operands to both opcodes.
12:55:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156092&oldid=152530 * C++DSUCKER * (+43)
12:55:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156093&oldid=156092 * C++DSUCKER * (+90)
12:55:44 <wib_jonas> There may be other accents, like one that's both input or output, or the same variable as input twice, but I don't know yet if I want to have those, probably no.
12:58:07 <wib_jonas> Also the graphics metaphor breaks in that if you have a backtick above a dot with no opcodes between, the dot that normally passes its value down will pass its value up to the top of the backtick, because they're the same variable name and the previous function that outputs on the dot will be executed before the next function that inputs from the
12:58:54 <wib_jonas> The minus is overloaded to make a negative numeric literal, which is unambiguous because a numeric literal doesn't take input operands.
13:02:21 <wib_jonas> Also I'm planning to have a well-defined C ABI. So you can define a function in C, declare it in the column-operated language and call it from there; or define a function in the column-operated language, declare it in C and call it from there. You can just link compilation units from the column-operated language to compilation units from other
13:02:21 <wib_jonas> languages that can handle the C ABI general enough, eg. C, C++, Rust, Zig, Haskell, whatever.
13:03:01 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156094 * PrySigneToFry * (+2059) Created page with "{{WIP}} is a semi-serious Esolang designed by [[User:PrySigneToFry]] to against [[WaifuScript]], and also called "ljb u da snra" or "Xiyouchangchu". = Commands = Anything in square brackets is placeholder. so "uwu a" is correct but "uwu [a]" isnt. so the correct label
13:03:56 <wib_jonas> There'll be a mangling scheme that maps the name, number of input operands, and number of output operands into a C identifier. And presumably I'll make a helper where if you declare or define a function in the column-operated language, it can output you some C function signatures that you can put in your C program, with the correct C name and
13:04:02 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156095&oldid=155016 * PrySigneToFry * (+19)
13:04:43 <wib_jonas> I'm planning to write all functions of the standard library in portable C, and make the reference compiler compile to portable C. There'll of course be non-function operations that aren't implemented in C but are built into the compiler.
13:08:01 <wib_jonas> Also every data type in the column-operated language corresponds straightforwardly to a type in C. You can easily define a new type using this. For each type, there's a function in the column-operated language that just copies a value of that type from its one input argument to its out output argument. This looks like a normal function in the
13:08:01 <wib_jonas> column-operated language (you could implement a new one with the same behavior), but for simplicity it doesn't correspond to a C function, it's just inlined into the compiled code all the time since it's a simple value copy.
13:09:50 <wib_jonas> I'll have at least a fixed-size integer type and an array type in the standard library, but the core language and compiler barely has to know about these, they'll just be implemented as ordinary user-defined type, with the exception that there'll be some built-in syntax for numeric literals and string literals.
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13:43:32 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156096&oldid=156015 * C++DSUCKER * (+131)
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13:48:57 <wib_jonas> So here's roughly how the compilation notionally works. For every character in the source code, we determine its column number in the above mentioned way. This needs to know whether the source file is in wimpmode and the infinite descending (ascending in wimpmode) sequence of user-defined tab stop column numbers, and which characters in the input
13:50:56 <wib_jonas> (Non-ascii bytes and certain control characters set the column number to undefined -- these are allowed to appear in comments or string literals so we don't just forbid them, but we don't define how they affect the column number so that a later unicode extension could define the widths. If we later find that we need the column number of a character
13:50:57 <wib_jonas> whose column number is undefined, that's a compile error.)
13:53:31 <wib_jonas> Independently of the columns, we tokenize the source code, determining which non-overlapping infixes are tokens (the rest of characters are mostly whitespace or comments). From just the syntax of the characters in each token we determine what kind of tokens they are (eg. which accent, built-in opcode eg. for control flow, function call opcode,
13:53:31 <wib_jonas> function definition/declaration heading opcode, type declaration opcode, etc).
13:54:15 <wib_jonas> For each token we save its column number too, which is just the column number of its last (first in wimpmode) character.
13:54:57 <wib_jonas> We match accents to opcodes, determining the list of input accents and list of output accents for each opcode.
13:59:41 <esolangs> [[Selter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156097&oldid=156084 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+26) added smth i forgor what lol
13:59:41 <wib_jonas> Now here's the tricky multi-pass part. Find every function definition/declaration opening and closing operation, match them. The sigil of the opening opcode tells the parity of the input argument count, and the number of output accents to the opening operation tells the approximate input argument count, from these two you get the exact input
13:59:42 <wib_jonas> argument count. Similarly the sigil of the closing opcode tells the parity of the output argument count, and the number of input arguments in that closing operation tells the approximate output argument count, from these two you get the exact output argument count. also from the opening opcode you get the name of the function.
14:01:37 <wib_jonas> Now find each function call operation. The opcode tells the function name, the input accents give the approximate input argument count, and similarly the output accents give the approximate output argument count. Recall all functions defined with this name, and find the overload that has the matching number of input and output operands.
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14:06:46 <wib_jonas> Now for each function call operation, since you know the number of input and output accents and the number of input and output arguments needed, so you add the column of the opcode as an extra input argument and/or output operand if that's required to match. Similarly for other built-in opcodes you determine if you need the opcode column as extra
14:06:47 <wib_jonas> operand, only there the arities don't count from declarations/definitions but from built-in language rules.
14:07:12 <wib_jonas> Now the following part is provisional and may change because I'm not sure yet if it works.
14:08:45 <wib_jonas> For every token whose column matters, we determine the corresponding variable name from the column and from scope brace-like operations that make some columns lexically local in a range of the code.
14:14:12 <wib_jonas> For every token where the column matters you also determine if it uses that column as value input and/or value output and/or something else. For these tokens and the braces you also determine the variable names. You also determine all possible control flow based based on functions/conditional/loop/branch operations. Now here comes the hard part.
14:14:12 <wib_jonas> You put together the input/output references and variable names and control flow to determine the data flow, that is, which output operand can send data to which input operand.
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14:15:24 <esolangs> [[NameError without a quine with a quine without a quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156098&oldid=137475 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+112)
14:15:42 <wib_jonas> This is hard because each variable name can correspond to different actual variables if the data flow isn't connected. Eg. in a sane language if you have `x=B(); C(x); x=D(); E(x);` then the first two instances of x are a different variable from the last two.
14:19:27 <wib_jonas> You also use the function calls, which at this point are resolved to overloads, to determine which variables can be used as which input argument and/or output argument of which function. From these possible data flows you can do global type inference. This simply groups the variables into equivalence classes that must have the same type. In
14:19:28 <wib_jonas> addition, the copy opcode for any type is known to have that type as both its input and output operand. We also know the argument types of a few other built-in operations eg. numeric literals and string literals.
14:20:31 <wib_jonas> This is all we need to determine the types of every variable.
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14:25:08 <wib_jonas> Function declarations have a syntax that look basically the same as a function definition with different sigils (and possibly some restrictions), but the body of the definition is used only for typechecking. Usually in the body you just put a copy opcode for every input and output argument to set the type of each argument. This is not strictly
14:25:08 <wib_jonas> necessary, you can have the argument types inferred from elsewhere in the same compilation unit. But if you do that then you may get an ambiguity where a type of an argument of an extern function is unknown, and that's an error because then we don't know the C ABI of calls, unless there are no calls to this function from this compilation unit.
14:27:38 <wib_jonas> You can ask the compiler to do the typechecking and emit column-operated language declarations for each function -- you can use these in a different column-operated compilation unit so you can call the function, or edit them to a definition in a different compilation unit to define the function that is called here.
14:28:06 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156099&oldid=156087 * Corbin * (+423)
14:28:49 <wib_jonas> Or you can ask the compiler to do the typechecking and emit C declarations for each function. You can edit this to an include file to call or define the functions from a C compilation units, or use them in more complicated ways for other languages that can handle the C ABI.
14:30:18 <esolangs> [[Nope. with no quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156100&oldid=151702 * PrySigneToFry * (+21)
14:30:33 <wib_jonas> This is somewhat similar to statically typed languages like Haskell, except that the language is imperative so we have assignments to variables instead of let/case statements, and also the type system is much simpler than what Haskell has, there are no parametrized types or traits or polymorphism etc.
14:31:48 <wib_jonas> Only I'm not entirely sure that you can add a reasonable set of control flow built-ins and get something expressive enough. It's possible that the type system is too rigid and you need something slightly more complicated to be able to express some real-world programs conveniently.
14:36:30 <wib_jonas> Oh yeah, it's possible that some built-in control flow opcodes takes a number as boolean input operand, if so then they also have a known argument type.
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14:44:07 <esolangs> [[Forte]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156101&oldid=95424 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-28)
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15:05:59 <ais523> hmm, Rust macros-by-example are an esolang I think
15:06:29 <ais523> and also appear to be TC (you can implement StackFlow in them pretty much directly via using a macro that expands into a call to itself with different arguments)
15:08:54 <ais523> they're really unintuitive because you can't expand a macro while a macro is running – all you can do is produce a macro call in the output
15:10:15 <wib_jonas> wait, why StackFlow? how is that easier than a general multi-stack machine with arbitrary finite state control, the control encoded such that every state corresponds to a macro?
15:10:37 <ais523> it probably isn't, I just picked the first language that came to mind as trivially implementable
15:12:15 <wib_jonas> also you might run into the macro expansion recursion limit very quickly. you can change that limit, but I don't know if you can change it to high enough.
15:14:07 <ais523> I don't think this hits a recursion limit at all, it's all tail calls – there might be a separate tail-call limit though
15:14:28 <ais523> I'm not convinced macro recursion even exists in Rust
15:14:41 <ais523> the macro syntax looks like you can call a macro from another macro but you actually can't
15:14:49 <wib_jonas> heck, I think you can even implement a multi-register machine that can cons, empty list, and uncons, with a finite state control. It doesn't have to be just stacks. That can be more practical.
15:14:54 <ais523> what you can do is generate output that contains a macro call, and then that gets hit when re-parsing the output
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15:18:20 <wib_jonas> that reminds me, I was thinking recently that if you are writing a C++ compiler and the code can contain arbitrarily complicated C preprocessor constructs then it is very hard to make the error messages comprehensible. the error message may have to refer to locations in the code, but to uniquely identify a location in the preprocessed source code
15:18:20 <wib_jonas> you may have to name a complex path in the macro expansion tree, with locations of macro calls, locations of a parameter in the macro definition, locations in the arguments in the macro call.
15:19:01 <wib_jonas> also locations of include directives, and each include file may be included multiple times.
15:19:29 <wib_jonas> so you may have to give any number of locations in the non-preprocessed source code.
15:19:56 <ais523> Rust macros deal with this via attaching an "original location" to every token and having macros copy it around
15:20:01 <ais523> it's not an ideal system but can be abused in interesting ways
15:20:40 <ais523> especially with procedural macros, which let you copy the location from one token to another
15:21:07 <ais523> the current best way to produce an error in a procedural macro is to copy the location in the source onto a call to the compile_error! macro that you generate in the output
15:21:34 <ais523> so that the compiler thinks that the compile_error! was written literally in the source code at that point, and thus highlights the location in question when producing the error
15:21:51 <ais523> I'm not sure whether or not this was originally an intended way to do things, but it's useful enough that it's likely to stay at this point even if it was originally ab ug
15:23:40 <ais523> or, well, not a bug, more like emergent behaviour
15:26:01 <wib_jonas> also in traditional C++, user-defined types could almost be identified by a path through namespaces and functions and type names, function argument types, and template arguments, where each template argument can itself be a path. this was *almost* enough to uniquely identify a type, without mentioning source locations, which is useful for name
15:26:02 <wib_jonas> mangling. the only exception was anonymous namespaces. but now C++ has polymorphic lambdas, which are unnamed, so an error message may actually have to name a location in the preprocessed source to be completely unambiguous.
15:26:42 <wib_jonas> of course it could just give the index of the preprocessed token within the preprocessed source code, but that's hard for the programmer to interpret.
15:27:00 <ais523> all the Rust macro-writing I've been doing recently has lead me to treasure anonymous things
15:27:17 <ais523> because you can't name things without potential name collisions in the surrounding code, and there isn't any sort of gensym
15:27:38 <ais523> so you want to put code in anonymous things as much as possible, otherwise you have to ask the user for a name and it can look out of place
15:27:53 <ais523> trait implementations are anonymous, those are a good place to put your code
15:29:31 <wib_jonas> I'm actually parsing csv files using anonymous types: my parser library automatically creates a row type for every table. But this is in Python where handling anonymous types is much easier, the types are just first-class values.
15:30:15 <wib_jonas> Well I'm not *parsing* the files using them, I'm parsing the files into them and using the parsed data in the rest of the code using those anonymous types, and the same thing backwards for creating and writing a table to a file.
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15:32:14 <wib_jonas> As for Rust macros and anonymous things, I don't yet understand how names work in rust macros, I may or may not have to depending on what kind of macros I want to write in the future. Mostly I want to avoid macros where reasonable, but there are a few places where they're really useful.
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15:34:26 <korvo> ais523: I don't want to sound like a nefarious mystic, but I'm glad to hear that somebody else is seeing the folly of names.
15:36:20 <wib_jonas> Um, that's for which thing, the rust macros, the C++ error messages with source locations, or for column-oriented programming where each variable name is a column number in a scope in a source file?
15:36:48 <ais523> wib_jonas: what are you referring to with "that" in your previous comment?
15:36:59 <ais523> this conversation is confusing enough as it is :-)
15:37:48 <ais523> I do think your right-justified tabs are an interesting concept, I'm vaguely surprised I haven't seen it before
15:38:23 <ais523> it is simultaneously intuitive and difficult to explain
15:38:25 <wib_jonas> does anyone use Corel WordPerfect these days? I wonder if it supports right-aligned tabs, but I'm not going to buy a license just to find out
15:38:54 <ais523> I have used it in the past, but it was a very long time ago and I doubt any of the computers with legitimate copies are still functioning
15:39:13 <ais523> I vaguely remember that it's popular among lawyers (something about Microsoft Word not counting words correctly, which is very important for lawyers)
15:39:25 <wib_jonas> on the opposite side, can anyone explain to me how the heck Winword positions the text in right-aligned lines in text, even in the simple special case when the paragraph fits in one line and all tab stops are right-aligned?
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15:39:39 <ais523> when I submitted my PhD, I was asked the word count, and I gave three different word counts depending on how you defined it
15:39:48 <ais523> (the highest included things like words that appeared in diagrams)
15:40:23 <ais523> wib_jonas: I don't have a Word license, but my guess is that it lays out the text left-aligned and then moves it right by the distance between the rightmost end of the text and the right margin
15:41:07 <ais523> hmm, now I'm wondering how browsers handle tabs in right-aligned text
15:41:51 <wib_jonas> I think for my MsC-equivalent thesis this was backwards: the guidelines said that the thesis should be at least this many number of pages in this font size with this line spacing.
15:44:20 <ais523> Chromium appears to use the "layout left-aligned then shift right" algorithm: data:text/html,<html><body><pre style="text-align:right">Hello,&%239;,&%239;world!&%2310;Hello,&%239;,&%239;world!!
15:44:39 <ais523> (it took me an annoyingly long time to work out how to type a tab in a data: URI)
15:47:00 <wib_jonas> yeah, I think you're right. I would never have guessed that as the rule.
15:47:25 <ais523> isn't it fairly natural for a rule that comes up if you aren't thinking about the case at all?
15:47:45 <ais523> FWIW, Firefox does the same thing too
15:48:29 <ais523> in general I am quite upset about typical handling of tabs
15:49:36 <ais523> especially the way people reused the tab character for indentation even though its traditional meaning is too wide – I would be fine with a different character for indentation tab, but a tabulation tab is much too wide to be usable for indentation
15:49:55 <wib_jonas> example image of Winword with tabs: https://i.sstatic.net/XWkhvo4c.png
15:50:28 <ais523> so editors have to choose between interpreting tabs as indentation (common in programming editors nowadays), interpreting tabs as tabulation (which was tradtional), interpreting tabs as elastic tabs (which works really well but nobody implements), and implementing a somewhat awkward tab width of 8 which is too wide for indentation and too narrow for tabulation
15:51:01 <wib_jonas> I think the traditional meaning is that you put user-defined tabs to any column you want by moving these little metal clips on a rail on the expensive typewriter
15:51:20 <ais523> yep, traditionally tabstops were settable
15:52:00 <ais523> although, one of the first systems I learned to program on (and the first where I was aware of what a tab even was) had 14-character tabstops, I don't know whether they were changeable or not but it was 14 by default
15:52:35 <ais523> elastic tabstops make the tabs the minimum width that causes them to line up correctly, so they expand to the data when being used for tabulation
15:53:03 <ais523> (and for indentation any width will do, so you can make them configurable there)
15:53:20 <wib_jonas> ok, admittedly that example image is a little unclear because the first and third column has close to the same length
15:55:29 <wib_jonas> here's a clearer example: https://i.sstatic.net/FyO3Ss3V.png
15:56:02 <ais523> I use TSV sometimes as an equivalent to CSV (it's basically CSV but you replace the commas with tabs, and generally deal only with data for which you don't need a quoting or escape syntax)
15:56:22 <wib_jonas> the csvs that I'm working with are actually tab-separated
15:56:30 <wib_jonas> the c doesn't stand for comma or colon anywhere
15:56:35 <ais523> it is so much better than CSV – if you have wide enough tab stops (or elastic tabs) it lines up neatly in your editor or pager, and it's much simpler to parse due to not needing to escape commas
15:56:53 <ais523> oh, I don't call it CSV unless it uses comma as a column separator and double-quotes strings that contain commas
15:57:26 <ais523> (and then you need a further escape syntax for strings that contain both double quotes and commas – I think doubling the double quote is most sensible, otherwise you need a third escape character and a way to escape that)
15:58:27 <ais523> hmm, how does CSV that quotes text handle numbers that contain commas?
15:58:36 <ais523> are you supposed to just not use it in mainland Europe?
15:59:17 <ais523> …or separate the columns with periods, I guess
15:59:32 <wib_jonas> numbers could be quoted just fine, but I haven't seen actually comma-separated csvs for a while, only tab, semicolon, or colon separated
16:00:06 <ais523> well, if you're quoting even with tab separators, the quoting presumably has a purpose other than escaping commas
16:00:14 <ais523> and I think it might be to distinguish numbers from text
16:00:20 <ais523> otherwise you're just quoting things for no reason
16:00:40 <wib_jonas> including semicolon-separated ones written by a stupid program that doesn't bother to escape newlines in any way so the csv is ambiguous
16:01:11 <ais523> I feel like if your data contains raw newlines inside the fields, CSV is probably an inappropriate format anyway
16:01:36 <wib_jonas> but most of them are just tab separated, values can be surrounded by a double-quote in which case a double-quote is represented by two double-quotes and a tab or newline is literal; if a value isn't surrounded by double quotes then it mustn't contain double quotes or tabs or newlines.
16:02:27 <wib_jonas> also most of them are in utf-16-le, but I have a few utf-8 ones as well
16:02:49 <wib_jonas> yes, I'm using csv for compatibility with multiple other programs, not because I like it as a format
16:02:53 <ais523> does Windows still use UTF-16 by default?
16:03:00 <ais523> or, well, "still" is a bit of a weird term
16:03:38 <ais523> it just provides a bunch of APIs and leaves it up to the developer to navigate them
16:04:06 <ais523> I think, for a long time, the choice was between UTF-16 or a locale-specific 8-bit codepage
16:04:22 <ais523> and more recently UTF-8 was added but I'm not sure how it integrates or even which set of APIs it uses
16:04:32 <ais523> I'm leaning towards thinking that it uses the 8-bit APIs? but I'm not sure
16:04:48 <wib_jonas> Excel can read tab-separated csv in just about any encoding, or it can save as tab-separated csv in either utf-16-le or locale-dependent encoding, but the locale-dependent can't represent every character so that's usually not a good idea. The other program I work with reads and writes only utf-16-le encoded tab-separated csv.
16:05:25 <wib_jonas> yes, exactly, utf-16-le is supported in the most cases, so that's the default in some sense
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16:15:32 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156102&oldid=156055 * Stkptr * (+80) I think I get the joke, but it should still have categories
16:17:44 <esolangs> [[idioma]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156103 * Imakesi * (+3013) Created page with "'''idioma''' is a Brainfuck clone in which every command is a different language. The name for it is taken from the 2 most popular languages by population, Mandarin Chinese, and Spanish. is programming, and idioma is language. In idioma, every line is a different comma
16:18:24 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156104&oldid=155771 * Imakesi * (-52)
16:19:50 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156105&oldid=156026 * Imakesi * (+53) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
16:20:45 <esolangs> [[Translated CreativeASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156106&oldid=142062 * MihaiEso * (+2)
16:26:32 <esolangs> [[User:Pro465]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156107&oldid=140447 * Pro465 * (-2)
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17:46:00 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/brainfuck program naming scheme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156108&oldid=156013 * Aadenboy * (-248) never mind
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19:02:20 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156109&oldid=156032 * Buckets * (+6)
19:19:24 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156110&oldid=155825 * Stkptr * (+5098) More info
19:29:36 <esolangs> [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156111&oldid=156078 * Ractangle * (+0) trolololo. nope
19:30:29 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156112&oldid=156076 * Ractangle * (-143) was that really nesesary?
19:32:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Siim * New user account
19:33:00 <esolangs> [[Befunk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156113&oldid=156077 * Ractangle * (-69) technicaly thats a program. not a command
19:37:24 <esolangs> [[NQ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156114 * K * (+1005) Created page with "{{WIP}} NQ is a queue-based programming language created by User K. It operates on an infinite 1-trit queue and a single flag trit, which initially holds the value 0. Each trit is a trinary digit that can be in one of three states: 0, 1 or 2. Instructions are executed from left
19:40:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156115&oldid=155966 * Siim * (+176) /* Introductions */
19:43:34 <esolangs> [[User:Siim]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156116 * Siim * (+67) Created page with "== fredqz == I am from Estonia, I have created AksuPaksu and JUICE"
19:44:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156117&oldid=156090 * Buckets * (+12)
19:44:53 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156118&oldid=156020 * Buckets * (+11)
19:45:02 <esolangs> [[What?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156119 * Buckets * (+722) Created page with "What? is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |} Every 0.000001s/Character, It turns the length of the Program then Put it into Octal and put The corresponding Numbers 0-7 into [[brainfuck
19:47:15 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156120&oldid=156117 * K * (+9) added nq so cool!
19:49:24 <esolangs> [[NQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156121&oldid=156114 * K * (+90) Added Categories
19:57:40 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156122&oldid=154877 * Ractangle * (+270) yay trutvh machine works
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23:10:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aadenboy * uploaded "[[File:MCBDigits0-F.png]]"
23:13:59 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/draft2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156124 * Aadenboy * (+357) draft
23:43:02 <esolangs> [[idioma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156125&oldid=156103 * I am islptng * (+104)
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23:53:26 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/draft2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156126&oldid=156124 * Aadenboy * (+2245) draft
23:55:00 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156127&oldid=156089 * I am islptng * (+27) for combine match 1 29275 match 2 66 all i do put-char latter i all
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01:02:26 <esolangs> [[VFUSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156128&oldid=156044 * AlmostGalactic * (+134)
01:14:12 <esolangs> [[VFUSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156129&oldid=156128 * AlmostGalactic * (+498)
02:26:03 <korvo> esolangs: In terms of computational complexity, how powerful is Tmg?
02:26:15 <esolangs> korvo: Tmg is a highly expressive language with a focus on functional programming and metaprogramming. While it's not a general-purpose language like Python or Java, its unique features allow for complex computations. Its computational power is best described as **"highly specialized"**. It excels in areas like symbolic computation and data manipulation,...
02:26:15 <esolangs> but its limitations in areas like general-purpose computation and concurrency make it less powerful than more general-purpose languages.
02:26:33 <korvo> I'm not hoping for much, but I'm hoping that it's better than the LLM answer, which is based on incorrect statements in the Dragon Book and other early-70s formal-parsing tomes.
02:26:58 <korvo> esolangs: In terms of parsing theory, what classes of grammar can Tmg parse?
02:31:07 <esolangs> korvo: Turing machines (Tmg) can parse any language that is **recursively enumerable**. This means the language can be generated by a Turing machine. Turing machines are a powerful model of computation, and they can handle a wide range of languages. Specifically, Tmg can parse: * **Generative grammars:** These can model all recursively enumerable...
02:31:07 <esolangs> languages. * **Analytic grammars:** These can model a subset of recursively enumerable languages. * **Regular grammars:** These are the most restrictive, but still powerful.
02:31:35 <korvo> Oh, it's not RAG'ing the right page.
02:31:59 <korvo> esolangs: In terms of parsing theory, what classes of grammar can Tmg (Transmogrifier) parse?
02:36:00 <esolangs> korvo: Based on the provided information, Tmg likely operates on a generative grammar model, capable of parsing recursively enumerable languages. This means Tmg can parse languages that can be generated by a Turing machine, which is a powerful class of languages. The text doesn't explicitly state what Tmg can parse, but its nature as a "Transmogrifier"...
02:36:00 <esolangs> suggests it can handle complex language transformations.
03:27:07 <esolangs> [[User:Dmiz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156130&oldid=149495 * Dmiz * (+12)
04:14:13 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156131 * I am islptng * (+981) Created page with "{{back|Translated SLet}} It is [[SLet (Old 3)|SLet 3.0]] but horribly translated! 1. Take the Generator: <pre> let a 2 let b 0 let c 1 let i 1 let f do let t add multiply i 2 1 let b add a b let b multiply b t let c multiply c t let a multiply a i let i
05:08:09 <wryl> Wait, the bot scrapes the wiki?
05:08:40 <wryl> Where exactly is this LLM hosted and can it see these chats?
05:16:50 <zzo38> I find on GitHub people are making the same complaints about 2FA that I did: that it is not really that much more secure, and that the program to set up 2FA does not even work properly. (Some even say it is less secure than not having 2FA at all. However, nobody seems to suggest supporting client certificates as a more secure alternative.)
05:17:07 <zzo38> (The private key of a certificate can be passworded, which means that it is already like 2FA.)
05:21:36 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156132&oldid=155927 * Hotcrystal0 * (+30)
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07:05:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HellsfargoMC * New user account
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07:14:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156133&oldid=156115 * HellsfargoMC * (+280) /* Introductions */
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08:17:50 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156134 * HellsfargoMC * (+6180) Created page with "LayerCake is an infinite array of stacks which are used to store both data and executable code. LayerCake is dynamically typed. It is meant to be interpreted, although it does not yet have an interpreter. It is likely to be [[Turing-complete]], but this is untest
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08:20:44 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156135&oldid=156134 * HellsfargoMC * (+264) added etymology
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08:30:07 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156136&oldid=156135 * HellsfargoMC * (+22)
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11:38:30 <esolangs> [[NQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156137&oldid=156121 * K * (+1609) Added "Hello, World!" program
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12:05:32 <esolangs> [[NQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156138&oldid=156137 * K * (+75)
12:16:35 <esolangs> [[NQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156139&oldid=156138 * K * (+1709) Added cat program
12:19:41 <fizzie> Oh, I hadn't pushed esolangs stuff to GitHub in ages.
12:20:34 <int-e> . o O ( good choice )
12:22:16 <fizzie> wryl: Roughly how it works is, it has a Gemma 2.0 model I self-host here at home, and every time someone says "esolangs: something", it first asks the model to extract a single search term (MediaWiki search is kinda bad for natural language), calls the wiki API to search for that, takes at most 3 first hits, potentially "compacts" them to fit in the context window, and then asks the model to
12:22:18 <fizzie> answer the question given the context of the pages.
12:22:55 <fizzie> It doesn't see any other part of the IRC chat except for the "something" in the question it's directly answering, and it doesn't retain any context from prior.
12:23:56 <fizzie> (I'd kind of like to also add some immediate context and/or prior request-reply pairs so that it could "hold a conversation" more, but haven't touched it in a while, so that's not likely to happen in the near term.)
12:24:29 <fizzie> Though really the main reason it's so bad is how bad the search part is for identifying relevant pages to feed in as context.
12:25:42 <fizzie> (And of course it's also the smallest model around, the 2B token one, because it runs on the CPU with no fancy hardware assistance, I've only got one GPU here that's new enough to be usable for this sort of thing and I'm using that for... you know, GPU things.)
12:25:48 <APic> Happy Easter! 😌
12:26:25 <fizzie> Some more detail in https://github.com/fis/esolangs/blob/master/esogem/docs/design.md
12:27:10 <fizzie> (And the code's there too because that document is probably not strictly matching it any more.)
12:31:58 <fizzie> I guess in a sense any LLM out there can also "see these chats" in the sense that they're logged (see topic), and scrapers (LLM-related and otherwise) have definitely discovered the URL (it's linked to from the wiki, for example). There's even a non-zero chance that past discussion here has impacted the model I'm using (no idea what into Gemma 2.0 training), but I wouldn't expect it to retain any
12:32:00 <fizzie> specific thing that appears nowhere else in the public Internet at least in an easy-to-extract form.
12:32:51 <fizzie> esolangs: Are there any chat spaces discussing esoteric programming languages, and can you name any prominent participants in them?
12:33:58 <esolangs> fizzie: Yes, there are several chat spaces dedicated to esoteric programming languages. Prominent participants include: * **#esolangs** on IRC * **r/esolangs** on Reddit * **The Esoteric Programming Language Forum** on forums. You'll find active discussions, code sharing, and problem-solving in these spaces.
12:43:45 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156140&oldid=156096 * C++DSUCKER * (-131) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/156096|156096]] by [[Special:Contributions/C++DSUCKER|C++DSUCKER]] ([[User talk:C++DSUCKER|talk]])
12:49:45 <fizzie> I wonder what The Esoteric Programming Language Forum "on forums" refers to.
12:51:02 <fizzie> We had a web forum at some point, but it was never used much, and became defunct quite a while ago, and it wasn't exactly called that.
12:51:26 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156141&oldid=156140 * C++DSUCKER * (+219)
12:52:07 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156142&oldid=156141 * C++DSUCKER * (+53)
13:08:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156143&oldid=155355 * I am islptng * (+684) /* M hs crr! */ new section
13:12:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156144&oldid=154692 * C++DSUCKER * (+204)
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13:59:34 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156145&oldid=156012 * C++DSUCKER * (+491) Added results for space
14:08:14 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3/PrySigneToFry]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156146 * PrySigneToFry * (+767) Created page with "The [[Translated SLet/3|idea]] of this s**t is given by islptng. 1. Take the semiproduct. A e'2, B E'0, C E'1, I am 1 hexagon. You are me, 21, Ba, Bb-tu, Cc-tu, ame.add 1, BC, all of them. 2. Add salt, sugar, vinegar, light soy sauce, dar
14:08:49 <esolangs> [[Translated SLet/3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156147&oldid=156131 * PrySigneToFry * (+9)
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14:12:25 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156148&oldid=156132 * PrySigneToFry * (+259)
14:34:29 <esolangs> [[NQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156149&oldid=156139 * K * (+337) yeah
14:42:10 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156150&oldid=156145 * C++DSUCKER * (+241)
14:42:25 <esolangs> [[NQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156151&oldid=156149 * K * (-1219) fixed cat program unmini
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14:57:43 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver/Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156152&oldid=156085 * C++DSUCKER * (+118)
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15:31:00 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156153&oldid=156150 * C++DSUCKER * (+41)
15:33:08 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kazoo * New user account
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15:57:56 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156154&oldid=155849 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+205)
16:02:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156155&oldid=156133 * Kazoo * (+146) intro
16:02:33 <esolangs> [[Der Know How Computer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156156 * Kazoo * (+1238) new page
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17:15:00 <esolangs> [[Tiny]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156157&oldid=150433 * Ron.hudson * (-3) /* Special variables */
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17:30:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:RuleLoader]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156158 * Treeplate * (+164) talk
17:39:44 <esolangs> [[NQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156159&oldid=156151 * Stkptr * (+962)
17:46:12 <esolangs> [[NQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156160&oldid=156159 * Stkptr * (-18)
18:09:21 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156161&oldid=156104 * Photostar * (-288)
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18:11:52 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156162&oldid=155685 * Photostar * (+501)
18:18:44 <esolangs> [[NQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156163&oldid=156160 * K * (+0)
18:24:08 <esolangs> [[NQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156164&oldid=156163 * K * (-1) made the load instruction lowercase again
19:02:06 <esolangs> [[NQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156165&oldid=156164 * Stkptr * (+534)
19:02:29 <esolangs> [[NQ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156166&oldid=156165 * Stkptr * (-6) /* Computational class */
19:05:47 <esolangs> [[Der Know How Computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156167&oldid=156156 * Stkptr * (+133)
19:19:15 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156168&oldid=156136 * Stkptr * (-4) /* Example programs */
19:20:42 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156169&oldid=156168 * Stkptr * (-8) It supports looping and interaction with at least two stacks at any point in time
19:22:39 <esolangs> [[Tiny]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156170&oldid=156157 * Stkptr * (+80)
19:23:20 <esolangs> [[Category:Computational models]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156171&oldid=13189 * Stkptr * (-25) Diophantine equations have been described
19:30:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156172&oldid=150913 * Stkptr * (+742) /* Computational class */ This is how the categories have been used so far
19:30:47 <esolangs> [[Category:Uncomputable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156173&oldid=10467 * Stkptr * (+8)
19:40:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156174&oldid=154102 * Stkptr * (+892) /* Suggestion: Hypercomputational category */ new section
20:01:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:RuleLoader]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156175&oldid=156158 * Stkptr * (-8)
20:05:21 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156176&oldid=155763 * Corbin * (+186) /* See also */ More references!
20:17:14 <esolangs> [[RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156177&oldid=155616 * Corbin * (+7) /* Description */ Hew closer to the docs and remove confusing parentheticals.
20:19:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:RuleLoader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156178&oldid=156175 * Corbin * (+189) Leave a note, I guess.
20:37:19 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156179&oldid=156110 * Stkptr * (+2257) /* Type 3: regular */
21:00:45 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156180&oldid=156179 * Corbin * (+545) /* Regular expressions */ One second, I have citations for this, I promise. This might be better off on another page; WP has this material but scattered, and nLab doesn't have it at all.
21:10:58 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156181&oldid=156180 * Corbin * (+532) Add references. Fun With Semirings is a great paper.
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22:03:09 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156182&oldid=156181 * Stkptr * (+465) /* Regular expressions */
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22:53:59 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156183&oldid=156169 * HellsfargoMC * (-1) /* Syntax */
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23:00:35 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156184&oldid=156183 * HellsfargoMC * (+1) /* Truth.lc: prettier comments*/
23:12:37 <esolangs> [[LayerCake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156185&oldid=156184 * HellsfargoMC * (+82) /* Fibonacci.lc: fixed its comments too, elaborated about no newlines*/
23:40:53 <esolangs> [[Hi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156186&oldid=139724 * Tiziano220812 * (+223) /* Implementations */
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01:30:10 <korvo> Does anybody happen to know of syntax traditions for Hoare logic that aren't typeset nicely and that operate over abstract domains? I know about e.g. TLA+.
01:30:45 <korvo> I'm puzzling over how to do conditions for a compiler where I might want to only generate code when I know that a certain flag is true, or when I know that the flag is either false or undefined.
01:31:36 <korvo> Right now I'm saying e.g. `.pre b` for a flag being true, or `.pre ~b` for false/undefined (that is, the complement of true) or `.pre !b` for false, but that's ad-hoc and grungy.
01:32:01 <korvo> It does give me a way to express `.pre ~!b`, for when the flag is either true or undefined (the complement of false).
01:38:54 <korvo> My overall idea is that I can embed optimizations as abstract interpretation into a META II system by encoding the abstract domain as a bunch of postconditional assignments. The preconditions are used to steer code generation.
01:40:17 <korvo> Like, say I have a parse flag `pf`. I might start the parser with `.post { pf }` to set it true, and then `.pre { ~pf } .do { .out('self.pf = True' .nl) } .post { pf }`.
01:47:58 <ais523> I vaguely remember seeing a notion that has preconditions before a function, surrounded by some sort of grouping character (I forget which one), and likewise postconditions afterwards
01:48:08 <ais523> but I'm not sure it came with a notation for the logical operators
01:48:57 <ais523> meanwhile, I've been continuing to try to write Rust macros-by-example, becoming increasingly convinced it's an esolang as time went on
01:49:45 <ais523> I got fed up with the number of times I'd implemented a foreach loop by hand, and decided to write foreach itself as a macro – but then I struggled to write the part which substitutes the loop variable into the output
01:50:33 <ais523> trying to work out what sort of code I'd need in order to do that generically, I realised it was basically the same problem as trying to build up a string from a template in Underload (you have the same basic operations available), so for a while I was seriously writing an Underload interpreter in Rust macros-by-example in order to make this work
01:50:47 <ais523> but I was worried about hitting the tail-recursion limit (which is actually fairly low)
01:51:31 <ais523> and think I found an alternative method of combining all the foreach loops into one or two big loops, which seems like a better option
01:52:25 <ais523> anyway, this got me thinking: just like in Underload, one of the main things it looks like you can't do using macros-by-example is to compare two identifiers with each other, which is something that I mildly want to do
01:53:26 <ais523> but it turns out that it actually is possible, by ridiculous means – you can test to see if an identifier matches an arbitrary hardcoded identifier – so "all" you have to do is to get the macro to output a macro definition that hardcodes the identifier in order to do a comparison!
01:53:29 <korvo> Hm. Shades of execline, which has a similar set of limitations at a higher level.
01:53:45 <ais523> (this only works in item context, because a macro definition is an item)
01:54:55 <korvo> Weird to think that META II spoils me here, but it has a register that stores the most-recently-parsed token, and that's sufficient for *emitting* an identifier into a new context without actually comparing it. META II assumes that some other compiler will bother with building a name/label table.
01:56:14 <ais523> the same technique could probably be used to generate my foreach loops – if you create a macro that generates foreach loops, rather than a macro that implements them, then the substitution part of things is really easy
01:56:55 <korvo> Yeah. Also, equations are overpowered; I'm assuming that you're not allowing yourself any intermediate assignments of runtime objects, just pure macro expansion?
01:56:59 <ais523> (hopefully all this will be obsolete in a couple of years – there are plans to add foreach loops to the macro lnaguage)
01:57:30 <ais523> I'm doing a lot of generation of compile-time objects, to make things easier
01:58:04 <ais523> but I'd like to avoid having, e.g., unnecessary extra traits just to work around deficiencies in the macros' parsing ability
02:00:08 <ais523> this started as an attempt to write a serious program (well, library) – but the issue is that it's a code generator, and I don't want it to be a separate executable because that makes the build system more complicated, so I'm trying to implement it by exploiting Turing-complete behaviours of the Rust compiler to do all the code generation at compile time
02:00:44 <ais523> and then it turned into an esoprogram because these behaviours weren't designed to be used with that level of computational power
02:01:53 <korvo> I know that feeling. I started with a need for a JSON parser and now I've got a metalanguage.
02:02:36 <ais523> I've decided to just let it happen, maybe I'll create something that's useful for the future, maybe I'll learn something
02:02:44 <ais523> although I'm about six levels deep recursing through the process by this point
02:03:15 <ais523> (fortunately it appears to be a convergent series)
02:06:55 <ais523> aww… I tried to get a macro to generate a macro that shadowed itself, but Rust treats both macro definitions as visible and errors on the ambiguity when you try to use it
02:07:58 <ais523> (I'm not even sure if I was trying to accomplish anything in particular there, I just wanted to see if it was possible before I spent time trying to figure out whether it was useful or not)
03:47:10 <b_jonas> ais523: what? you can output a macro definition and use it in the same stage of compilation?
04:37:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156187 * I am islptng * (+631) Created page with "Who Are You? ~~~~"
05:08:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156188&oldid=156187 * I am islptng * (+103)
05:10:35 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156189&oldid=154769 * I am islptng * (+71)
05:25:10 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156190&oldid=156189 * I am islptng * (+29)
05:52:22 <esolangs> [[Dis]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156191&oldid=126977 * Tpaefawzen * (+98) /* Sample programs */
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06:04:11 <esolangs> [[257-wrap brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156192&oldid=155328 * Tpaefawzen * (+10) My dialect
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06:17:20 <strerror> esolangs: who are the most famous esoteric language programmers that everyone should know about
06:17:40 <strerror> (actually, this might run up against gemma's anti-doxxing protections.)
06:17:46 <esolangs> strerror: While the field is vast, some key figures stand out: * **Ben Rudiak-Gould:** Known for Lazy K, Kayak, and AviSynth, he bridges esoteric and practical programming. * **Alan Mycroft:** Co-author of Haskell is not not ML, contributing to functional programming's esoteric roots. * **Simon Peyton Jones:** Another Haskell co-author, he's a prominent...
06:17:46 <esolangs> figure in functional programming and language design. These individuals have shaped the landscape of esoteric programming, influencing languages and research.
06:22:57 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156193&oldid=156148 * Hotcrystal0 * (+36)
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06:54:36 <esolangs> [[Vague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156194&oldid=156112 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+143) no, but that edit lets me hide a concept based on it
06:56:00 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156195&oldid=156102 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+76)
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07:14:26 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156196&oldid=156195 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-11)
07:15:40 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156197&oldid=156196 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+6)
07:18:11 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156198&oldid=156197 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-2)
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07:22:01 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156199&oldid=156198 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2)
08:07:05 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156200&oldid=156193 * PrySigneToFry * (+427)
08:10:12 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156201&oldid=156199 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
08:11:05 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156202&oldid=156201 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0)
08:11:34 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156203&oldid=156202 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+6)
08:12:02 <esolangs> [[WaifuScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156204&oldid=154145 * PrySigneToFry * (+33)
08:12:04 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156205&oldid=156203 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-9)
08:17:14 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156206&oldid=156205 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-93) test
08:17:51 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156207&oldid=156206 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+1)
08:18:30 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156208&oldid=156207 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2)
08:19:09 <esolangs> [[Unvague]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156209&oldid=156208 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+93)
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09:06:50 <esolangs> [[OREO Conversion Sheet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156210&oldid=117270 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+290)
09:08:18 <esolangs> [[OREO Conversion Sheet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156211&oldid=156210 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+36)
09:09:12 <esolangs> [[OREO Conversion Sheet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156212&oldid=156211 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+32)
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11:40:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156213&oldid=156093 * C++DSUCKER * (-133)
11:47:30 <esolangs> [[Loop preventing brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156214&oldid=156142 * C++DSUCKER * (-56)
12:03:55 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156215&oldid=156153 * C++DSUCKER * (+42)
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12:35:29 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156216&oldid=156215 * C++DSUCKER * (+30)
12:35:47 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156217&oldid=156216 * C++DSUCKER * (+13)
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13:28:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156218&oldid=155311 * Cycwin * (+127) /* My question */ new section
14:06:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156219&oldid=156154 * PrySigneToFry * (+1045) /* Mke even scir!!!! */ new section
14:23:33 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156220&oldid=154743 * C++DSUCKER * (+205)
14:26:42 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156221&oldid=156220 * C++DSUCKER * (+221)
14:55:40 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156222&oldid=156221 * C++DSUCKER * (+3)
15:17:28 <esolangs> [[R + S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156223&oldid=156222 * C++DSUCKER * (+1150)
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16:15:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156224&oldid=156218 * Stkptr * (+502)
16:17:15 <esolangs> [[WaifuScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156225&oldid=156204 * Stkptr * (+80)
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17:05:50 <korvo> Hm. Using Neighbors' convention for META II extended tokens, where e.g. `.lm+` and `.lm-` adjust the left margin (think Python INDENT and DEDENT), I think I'm going to add a flag which toggles the output buffer, and manage it with `.o+` and `.o-`.
17:06:32 <korvo> My syntax from last night wasn't a complete disaster, but it could be clearer. I could require booleans to be written as `+b` or `-b`. This is starting to feel like design principles.
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18:28:20 <esolangs> [[BitChanger Busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156226&oldid=156217 * C++DSUCKER * (+44)
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19:51:17 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156227 * Corbin * (+700) Stub the META II dialect I've been hacking on this week.
20:25:07 <korvo> Where does the phrase "computational class" come from?
20:31:43 <korvo> Do we have a "see also on Wikipedia" template? I thought we maybe did, but perhaps it was in a dream.
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20:47:45 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156228&oldid=156176 * Corbin * (+761) Add a couple important quotes about parsing power. Also give the ACM ref for Long 2014, because it's a single-click operation on ACM's website now.
20:51:33 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156229&oldid=156228 * Corbin * (+109) Bluelinks and expand intro.
20:55:12 <esolangs> [[AGL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156230 * Helpeesl * (+3442) Created page with "== Intro == AGL was made by [[users:helpeesl]] on April 19 2025 and was inspired by APL, and trying to be a minimalist golfing language. == Commands == AGLs commands have 2 forms based on how many inputs the have. === 1 input === {| class="wikitable" |+ Commands |- ! Symb
20:56:30 <esolangs> [[User:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156231&oldid=154043 * Helpeesl * (+28)
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21:24:19 <esolangs> [[Metacompiler]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156232&oldid=156036 * Corbin * (+18)
21:30:07 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit, a quarter byte]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156233 * Krolkrol * (+818) Created page with "'''Ralative 1 Bit''' is a variant of [[1 Bit, a quarter byte]] that has unbounded memory. =Instructions= The instructions stay relativly unchanged from the original, the only difference is that '''1 inverts the next bit instead of the other one''
21:30:44 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit, a quarter byte]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156234&oldid=156233 * Krolkrol * (-40)
21:31:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Krolkrol * moved [[Ralative 1 Bit, a quarter byte]] to [[Ralative 1 Bit]]: Misspelled title
21:36:48 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156237&oldid=156235 * Krolkrol * (+71)
21:48:10 <ais523> <korvo> Where does the phrase "computational class" come from? ← I'm not sure where I learned it, but the wiki has been using it ever since I first got into esolangs
21:50:48 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156238&oldid=156237 * Krolkrol * (+201) fixed the interpreter
21:52:32 <korvo> ais523: I wonder if it's a transatlantic situation. Over here, it's always "complexity class".
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22:23:08 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156239&oldid=156238 * Stkptr * (+62)
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23:53:03 <esolangs> [[Chefs Kiss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156243&oldid=117871 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3419) Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp.
23:54:43 <esolangs> [[Chefs Kiss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156244&oldid=156243 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1598) Introduced an examples section comprehending one incipial member in a Hello, World! program.
00:09:04 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156245&oldid=156190 * I am islptng * (+0)
00:42:44 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156246&oldid=155023 * PrySigneToFry * (+1415)
01:01:43 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck 2.0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156247&oldid=154324 * PrySigneToFry * (+34)
01:04:26 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156248&oldid=155751 * Dmiz * (-354)
01:19:50 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156249&oldid=155432 * PrySigneToFry * (+1263)
01:21:25 <esolangs> [[UserEdited/Versions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156250&oldid=155427 * PrySigneToFry * (+122)
01:29:43 <esolangs> [[Chefs Kiss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156251&oldid=156244 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3) Rectified a lapsus in an identifier concerning the language name.
02:03:42 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156252&oldid=156249 * None1 * (+129) /* Commands */
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02:07:18 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156253&oldid=156252 * None1 * (+55) /* Examples */
02:09:36 <esolangs> [[UserEdited]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156254&oldid=156253 * None1 * (+26) /* Commands */
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03:03:17 <esolangs> [[SE calculus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156255 * Patcail * (+2808) Created page with "'''SE Calculus''' is a modification of regular [[SKI combinator calculus|SKI combinator calculus]] to make it much more powerful; as powerful as set theory itself. It removes the K and I combinators and added the new '''E''' combinator. On the surface, we wish to d
03:03:43 <esolangs> [[User:Patcail]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156256&oldid=156003 * Patcail * (+29)
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04:20:15 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156257&oldid=156248 * Stkptr * (+52) Certainly TC
04:25:22 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156258&oldid=156035 * Timwi * (+83) Add (from https://youtu.be/H9fBGYJe3EQ)
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05:00:34 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156259&oldid=156161 * Photostar * (+15)
05:08:47 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156260&oldid=156200 * Hotcrystal0 * (+52)
05:39:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GGordey * New user account
05:44:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156261&oldid=156155 * GGordey * (+249)
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06:17:07 <esolangs> [[SE calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156262&oldid=156255 * Patcail * (+102)
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07:05:56 <esolangs> [[HOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156263 * Patcail * (+3952) Created page with "'''HOL''' known as '''Higher Order Lambda''', is a language that combines [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_logic higher order logic] with [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simply_typed_lambda_calculus typed lambda calculus]. The goal is to be extremely powerful mode
07:07:03 <esolangs> [[User:Patcail]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156264&oldid=156256 * Patcail * (+47)
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07:31:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156265&oldid=156120 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+153)
07:48:51 <esolangs> [[Dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156266&oldid=99661 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+3) /* Terminology */
07:49:25 <esolangs> [[Dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156267&oldid=156266 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+3) /* Terminology */
07:50:23 <esolangs> [[Domino Crisis]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156268&oldid=139337 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+8)
08:07:51 <esolangs> [[Foobar and Foobaz and Barbaz, oh my!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156269&oldid=85714 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+6171)
09:00:51 <APic> Happy Easter 2u411!
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10:54:53 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156270&oldid=156242 * Krolkrol * (+26)
10:55:07 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156271&oldid=156260 * PrySigneToFry * (+59)
10:56:38 <esolangs> [[User:Krolkrol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156272&oldid=152071 * Krolkrol * (+35)
10:57:10 <esolangs> [[User:Krolkrol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156273&oldid=156272 * Krolkrol * (+0)
10:57:39 <esolangs> [[User:Krolkrol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156274&oldid=156273 * Krolkrol * (+0)
11:16:12 <esolangs> [[Dick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156275&oldid=155156 * Master5o1 * (+3)
11:16:53 <esolangs> [[LongDick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156276&oldid=155417 * Master5o1 * (-2)
11:18:06 <esolangs> [[COMP-X]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156277 * Tpaefawzen * (+340) Created page with "'''CAP-X''' is an assembly language for the imaginary computer architecture '''COMP-X''' that had been adopted for Japan Information Technology Engineers Examination since the first examination in 1970 until the language got replaced by CASL in 1985. == See also == *
11:41:41 <esolangs> [[Selter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156278&oldid=156097 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+7) idk
11:43:19 <esolangs> [[Selter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156279&oldid=156278 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+0) idk again
11:45:23 <esolangs> [[Selter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156280&oldid=156279 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+2)
11:45:34 <izabera> I have an idea for a thing
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11:47:47 <izabera> Would a turing machine still be TC if you had code attached to each data cell?
11:49:19 <izabera> You can move the tape in either direction by any amount of cells
11:50:32 <izabera> And suppose you can have an infinite amount of cells with code
11:51:28 <int-e> what exactly is that code, how is that code specified, do cells carry data, can any data be carried from one cell to another?
11:52:22 <izabera> Code is immutable in each cell once the program is started
11:52:49 <izabera> I don't know how you'd specify the code but suppose that there is a way to do it
11:53:17 <int-e> If you're generous enough with the specification of the code you can use the tape position as the state of a simulated TM; the code specification would be the transition function of that TM.
11:56:20 <izabera> What if I only had an infinite loop
11:57:21 <izabera> And the tape can only advance forward by 1 except at the end where it loops back
11:57:52 <izabera> Ah it's not infinite I guess
11:58:21 <izabera> Unless the cells are bignums
12:02:54 <int-e> Hmm. People have studied one-state TMs. Which is close to what you describe (note that rather than attaching code to a cell you can use dedicated symbols for the corresponding transitions)
12:13:04 <int-e> No clue what happens if you add leapfrogging to a single-state TM (the ability to move more than one place at a time), and maybe a periodic tail on the tape.
12:42:04 <esolangs> [[MicroLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156281 * TomosCode * (+636) Created page with "MicroLang is my tiny programming language. == Idea == Inspired by [[Snowflake]], MicroLang operates on a program and an interpreter. == Instructions == The instructions are simple. They are: {| class="wikitable sortable" |+ Instructions |- ! Number !! Name !! Oper
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13:23:27 <esolangs> [[Domino Crisis]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156282&oldid=156268 * Ractangle * (+4)
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13:28:36 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156283&oldid=156271 * Hotcrystal0 * (+28)
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13:43:57 <ais523> <korvo> ais523: I wonder if it's a transatlantic situation. Over here, it's always "complexity class". ← computational classes and complexity classes are different; complexity classes deal with how fast a program runs, whereas computational classes deal with whether the program runs at all
13:44:38 <ais523> e.g. there's a difference between "can run any program a Turing machine can" and "can run any program a Turing machine can with no more than a polynomial slowdown"
14:09:21 <ais523> <int-e> No clue what happens if you add leapfrogging to a single-state TM (the ability to move more than one place at a time), and maybe a periodic tail on the tape. ← I've been trying to work it out, this is annoying
14:09:51 <ais523> (my assumptions are that we have a periodic/fixed/periodic pattern on a TM tape, the TM only has one state, and that it can move an arbitrary hardcoded distance on each transition)
14:10:09 <ais523> I think it's in the Incident-without-the-trivial-loop-detector computational class
14:10:24 <ais523> which I also think is sub-TC, although it's quite hard to grasp exactly what it can and can't do
14:10:36 <ais523> it might be lower, though
14:12:00 <ais523> the main feature of the class is an inability to copy data
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14:48:03 <korvo> ais523: Interesting. I've studied something called "descriptive complexity theory" and so I don't perceive a difference between the topics.
14:48:53 <korvo> Descriptive complexity is concerned with whether a problem can be described in a limited fragment of logic. It turns out that some descriptive complexity classes correspond to some classical complexity classes.
14:53:55 <ais523> I guess that's not very surprising, because logics are very related to languages, so classes that are common for languages are probably common for logics too
15:00:30 <korvo> This would give us a natural explanation for our differences in viewpoint, too. I made a drawing of how the well-known descriptive classes correspond to complexity classes here: https://github.com/brismu/zaha/blob/master/complexity/decision/descriptive.png
15:01:49 <korvo> The tower more-or-less tops out with "HO", which is higher-order intuitionistic logic, and the class ELEMENTARY is much much smaller than R. So if one spends all their time at R or above, caring about Turing degrees, then this descriptive approach is going to seem very weak.
15:06:00 <ais523> I think esolang research has been disproportionately focused on Turing-completeness, and the "main" computational classes (LBA, PDA, finite-state) are often what you get when you try to write a TC language and fail
15:06:25 <ais523> I do sometimes intentionally design languages with weird classes but I don't think doing so is very popular among esolangers
15:06:30 <ais523> (I'm quite proud of Feed the Chaos, though)
15:08:36 <korvo> I think proglang research is too focused on TC-ness. It's not just esolangs.
15:09:25 <korvo> I also think that complexity theorists are too focused on P vs NP. The development of quantum complexity is the only interesting branch, and it's 100% applied in service of the "quantum supremacy" movement.
15:09:34 <ais523> well, there are a huge number of people who don't even realise that TC and LBA are different
15:10:11 <korvo> Sure. We don't actually teach computability theory to computer-science students here; it's honestly a massive failing.
15:10:52 <ais523> lots of new esolangers have proposed "test programs for Turing-completeness" (not realising that any program that proves that is, in a sense, an interpreter for a TC language), and almost all of them are implementable on an LBA
15:11:49 <ais523> at least my standard test program (which someone else called the "looping counter") isn't LBA-implementable, and I didn't intend it as a TCness proof, just as a check for whether one of the most common obstacles to TCness could be overcome by the language
15:12:32 <korvo> I think it's telling that Cammy's complexity class, which should be a well-known isomorphism-invariant object, is not named in the literature at all. Instead the evil object PR is (not) studied.
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15:13:53 <ais523> korvo: indeed – an unnamed complexity/computational class came up earlier in this conversation, and I had to improvise a description for it
15:14:15 <ais523> although I doubt many people have actually tried to program in Incident, so wouldn't have first-hand experience with it
15:16:08 <ais523> (the basic issue is that in Incident, each stack always returns to the same place in the program after you push onto it, regardless of what you pushed, and the instruction pointer and stacks are apparently the only places to store information – so pushing information onto a stack destroys the copy of that information in the instruction pointer, likewise popping a stack moves the information from the stack to the instruction pointer but also doesn't
15:18:07 <ais523> if you make an empty stack return some specific value (which Incident doesn't do), it does weird things to the computational class and I'm not sure what the actual outcome there is, but it reminds me a lot of the 1-state Turing machines discussed earlier
15:18:17 <ais523> * return some specific value when popped
15:19:49 <ais523> Incident itself is TC but that's because there's an exploit (originally unintentional but noticed before release, and left in) that lets you store a small amount of information outside the program counters and stacks, and storing the information there doesn't remove it from the instruction pointer, so you can use it to slowly and awkwardly copy information and that's the only obstacle to running arbitrary computable programs
15:21:03 <korvo> Sure. I can understand that perspective: given an empty table and a box of legos, we can assemble many different machines, and tiny differences in the choice or placement of individiual lego pieces can dramatically change what the whole machine can do.
15:22:28 <ais523> yep – and the "TC via an exploit" is interesting (which is why I submitted it to a competition, which ended up never being judged), but the version without the exploit is possibly even more interesting
15:22:36 <korvo> (To indicate the contrast without endorsing it: spacetime is flowing with computational energy, and when we pinch tiny corridors of it, we can simulate an arbitrary symbolic manipulation which proceeds along the thermodynamic arrow of time.)
15:23:53 <korvo> In my mind, Incident would not be TC but the weird machine implementing it would be TC. Languages aren't their implementation machines, because it's very hard to have a non-weird implementation.
15:24:47 <ais523> well, the exploitable thing is in the specification
15:24:56 <ais523> and is part of the semantics of the language
15:25:14 <korvo> Only because you blessed it, though? Or maybe I misunderstood.
15:25:43 <ais523> no, the spec basically says "if there's an infinite loop that follows one of these certain patterns, drop out of the loop by skipping the next command"
15:25:59 <ais523> (the patterns are deterministic and observable – it's not a general-purpose halting oracle)
15:26:16 <ais523> and you can store information in the internal state of the infinite-loop-detector
15:26:35 <ais523> while the program stlll continues to run normally
15:26:53 <ais523> and then retrieve the information by writing an infinite loop that breaks at different points depending on what you did to the detector state
15:30:34 <korvo> Hm. It's like another kind of weirdness entirely, and one that appears often: writing in the target language by writing in a weird pre-language which (macro-)expands to the desired program.
15:30:34 <b_jonas> that's still Incident, right? not one of the trading card games with a weird infinite loop rule
15:31:02 <korvo> I'm not talking about compilers, but tools like bfmacro. We *could* analyze them as languages, but we get a lot more structure by imagining them as a sort of attached structure above the target.
15:33:33 <ais523> Yugioh's the only TC I know with an infinite loop rule that works sort-of like that, but the rule in the rulebook is based on human discretion – however, the official online simulator breaks loops after 16 somethings (we're not sure exactly what it's counting but it appears to be counting 16 of it) and the point at which it breaks can thus depend on how the loop started, even for otherwise identical loops
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15:52:19 <esolangs> [[SpellCast]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156284 * AlmostGalactic * (+3925) Created page with "'''Spell Cast''' is an esoteric programming language that uses fantasy-themed syntax to perform standard programming operations. It draws inspiration from magical incantations, making code resemble spellcasting rituals. == Overview == In Spell Cast, variables
15:55:39 <esolangs> [[SpellCast]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156285&oldid=156284 * AlmostGalactic * (+180)
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16:03:54 <esolangs> [[Domino Crisis]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156286&oldid=156282 * Stkptr * (+29) The specification demands that while loops always work, so dominoes can be restood, and there are no demands on the maximal size of the sticky notes used for variables
16:05:14 <esolangs> [[MicroLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156287&oldid=156281 * Stkptr * (-28) Turing completeness is not obvious
16:05:26 <esolangs> [[MicroLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156288&oldid=156287 * Stkptr * (+23)
16:09:19 <esolangs> [[COMP-X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156289&oldid=156277 * Stkptr * (+85)
16:11:16 <esolangs> [[LongDick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156290&oldid=156276 * Stkptr * (+34)
16:14:11 <esolangs> [[SpellCast]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156291&oldid=156285 * Stkptr * (-34)
16:17:02 <esolangs> [[Dimensional]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156292&oldid=156267 * Stkptr * (+16) It is a superset of Brainfuck
16:23:26 <esolangs> [[Definer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156293&oldid=78666 * Stkptr * (+29) It should be able to model unrestricted grammars, it would be strange to assume not
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18:21:10 <esolangs> [[/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156294&oldid=153630 * C++DSUCKER * (+460)
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19:28:21 <esolangs> [[ArrowFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156295&oldid=92130 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+502) Introduced an examples section comprehending one incipial member in a reverse cat program.
19:29:45 <esolangs> [[ArrowFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156296&oldid=156295 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+9137) Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp and supplemented the page category tag Implemented.
20:02:34 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156297&oldid=156257 * Dmiz * (-37)
20:03:55 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156298&oldid=156297 * Dmiz * (-13)
20:51:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156299&oldid=156099 * C++DSUCKER * (+161)
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21:00:02 <esolangs> [[SpellCast]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156300&oldid=156291 * AlmostGalactic * (+60)
21:00:35 <esolangs> [[SpellCast]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156301&oldid=156300 * AlmostGalactic * (+3)
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21:41:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156302&oldid=156299 * C++DSUCKER * (+205)
21:57:37 <esolangs> [[SpellCast]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156303&oldid=156301 * AlmostGalactic * (+991)
21:58:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Tpaefawzen * moved [[COMP-X]] to [[CAP-X]]: Wanted to explain language not architecture itself
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22:20:02 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156306&oldid=156162 * Photostar * (+335)
22:20:20 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156307&oldid=156306 * Photostar * (+5)
22:22:28 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156308&oldid=156307 * Photostar * (-68)
22:23:00 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156309&oldid=156308 * Photostar * (+2)
22:24:02 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156310&oldid=156309 * Photostar * (+6)
22:24:57 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156311&oldid=156310 * Photostar * (-14)
22:27:31 <esolangs> [[Pysembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156312&oldid=156311 * Photostar * (+278)
23:15:41 <esolangs> [[Nybble]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156313 * Helpeesl * (+6123) Created page with "Nybble is an esolang created by [[user:helpeesl]] on April 20th 2025 and is really complex. == commands == === 0 === This command is always followed by another 0 and prints each 6 character chunk as Unicode until it hits a new line and stops === 1 === This command i
23:17:28 <esolangs> [[AGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156314&oldid=156230 * Helpeesl * (-1)
23:18:37 <esolangs> [[User:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156315&oldid=156231 * Helpeesl * (+12)
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00:08:50 <esolangs> [[AGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156316&oldid=156314 * Helpeesl * (+22)
00:54:19 <esolangs> [[AGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156317&oldid=156316 * Helpeesl * (+22)
01:08:19 <esolangs> [[Nybble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156318&oldid=156313 * Helpeesl * (+169)
01:09:19 <esolangs> [[Nybble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156319&oldid=156318 * Helpeesl * (-23)
01:16:46 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156320&oldid=155628 * Helpeesl * (+95)
01:20:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156321&oldid=121389 * Helpeesl * (+267) /* I got the 500th truth machine on this page. */ new section
01:34:47 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156322&oldid=156320 * Helpeesl * (+11)
02:06:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Function702 * New user account
02:11:26 <esolangs> [[User:Function702]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156323 * Helpeesl * (+0) Created blank page
02:14:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156324&oldid=156261 * Function702 * (+198)
02:15:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156325&oldid=156324 * Function702 * (+3)
02:56:21 <esolangs> [[Expression]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156326 * Function702 * (+564) Created page with "Expression is an Esolang that uses Emoticons ":)" as commands. ==Syntax== :) True :( False =/ if =| Else =\ Else if =O End (o?) Get input (o) Print text :# Establishes variable :& Get input variable >:3 Random Number :S Loop ''
03:01:08 <esolangs> [[Expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156327&oldid=156326 * Function702 * (+87)
03:19:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156328 * Anthonykozar * (+234) Is it Turing-complete?
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03:36:41 <esolangs> [[Nybble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156329&oldid=156319 * Helpeesl * (+35)
03:56:55 <esolangs> [[Nybble v2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156330 * Helpeesl * (+6395) Created page with "Nybble v2 is an upgrade to the esolang [[Nybble]] created by [[user:helpeesl]] on April 21st 2025 and is more complex. == commands == === 0 === This command is always followed by another 0 and prints each 6 character chunk as Unicode until it hits a new line and st
03:58:11 <esolangs> [[User:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156331&oldid=156315 * Helpeesl * (+15)
04:06:58 <esolangs> [[Expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156332&oldid=156327 * Helpeesl * (+9)
04:09:01 <esolangs> [[Expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156333&oldid=156332 * Helpeesl * (+18) Helping someone out
04:12:31 <esolangs> [[User:Function702]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156334&oldid=156323 * Helpeesl * (+24)
04:54:07 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156335&oldid=156245 * PkmnQ * (-48)
05:04:17 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156336&oldid=154341 * Helpeesl * (+114)
05:05:27 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156337&oldid=156336 * Helpeesl * (+9)
05:07:15 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156338&oldid=156095 * PkmnQ * (+15) /* D */
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08:40:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EncryptedOreo * New user account
08:44:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156339&oldid=156325 * EncryptedOreo * (+131) /* Introductions */
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11:27:33 <HackEso> 1/1:951) <Sgeo> o.O OS/2 is what became NT? I didn't really know what OS/2 was \ 824) <shachaf> Do physicists have half-life crises?
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11:40:04 <fungot> fizzie: twice today. more details, pls.
11:40:52 <int-e> I love it when the reply *almost* makes sense.
11:42:16 <int-e> (In the specific case of fungot. Not applicable with LLMs because they do that too consistently.)
11:42:16 <fungot> int-e: let-monomorphic? what's that
11:43:05 <fungot> FireFly: what does ,load-system in slime48 do in fnord?)
11:44:41 <fizzie> If those other things are LLMs, is fungot a SLM? Or a "slime", colloquially.
11:44:42 <fungot> fizzie: oh btw: only floating point and sys instructions left to do are the basics of the language
11:57:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156340&oldid=155761 * PrySigneToFry * (+1565) /* Now you can become Genghis Khan! */ new section
13:41:57 <esolangs> [[User:Win7HE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156341&oldid=154777 * Win7HE * (+10) /* Deadman */
14:04:28 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1323.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo boily nortti b_jonas Noisytoot
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14:10:36 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156342&oldid=156246 * PrySigneToFry * (+31)
14:54:57 <esolangs> [[Searchfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156343&oldid=120336 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+440) Introduced an examples section enumerating as its incipial members the twissel of a repeating cat program and a truth-machine.
14:55:59 <esolangs> [[Searchfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156344&oldid=156343 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+7269) Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp and altered the page category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
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15:18:40 <Krolkrol> Does there exist an instruction That is turing complete by itself (like subleq) but does not take any arguments?
15:27:46 <b_jonas> Krolkrol: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Zero_Instruction_Set_Computer
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16:31:27 <esolangs> [[User:Function702]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156345&oldid=156334 * Stkptr * (-24) Do not make user pages for others. Undo revision [[Special:Diff/156334|156334]] by [[Special:Contributions/Helpeesl|Helpeesl]] ([[User talk:Helpeesl|talk]])
16:33:21 <esolangs> [[Expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156346&oldid=156333 * Stkptr * (+78)
17:07:13 <esolangs> [[Foton]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156347 * QuantumV * (+1445) add foton
17:09:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156348&oldid=156265 * QuantumV * (+12) add foton
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17:43:50 <esolangs> [[X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156349&oldid=153928 * Stkptr * (+147)
17:48:41 <esolangs> [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156350&oldid=155895 * Stkptr * (+101) /* Example languages */
17:49:45 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156351&oldid=148195 * Stkptr * (+137) /* Computational class */
18:08:11 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156352&oldid=156182 * Stkptr * (+0) /* Type 3: regular */
18:08:54 <esolangs> [[Regular language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156353 * Stkptr * (+28) Redirected page to [[Formal grammar]]
18:23:49 <esolangs> [[User:47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156354&oldid=148836 * Ractangle * (+61)
19:05:41 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156355&oldid=155818 * Junkshipp * (+138) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:08:51 <esolangs> [[Context-sensitive grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156356&oldid=155826 * Stkptr * (+26) Changed redirect target from [[Formal grammar]] to [[Formal grammar#Type 1: context sensitive]]
19:09:24 <esolangs> [[Context-free grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156357&oldid=155827 * Stkptr * (+21) Changed redirect target from [[Formal grammar]] to [[Formal grammar#Type 2: context free]]
19:11:31 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156358&oldid=79408 * Stkptr * (+8912) Regex is a language, formal grammars are the model, move text from formal grammar to here
19:12:21 <esolangs> [[Regular language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156359&oldid=156353 * Stkptr * (+16) Changed redirect target from [[Formal grammar]] to [[Formal grammar#Type 3: regular]]
19:15:50 <esolangs> [[Formal grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156360&oldid=156352 * Stkptr * (-3764)
19:21:08 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156361&oldid=156355 * Junkshipp * (+1050)
19:21:58 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156362&oldid=156361 * Junkshipp * (-286) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:22:00 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156363&oldid=156358 * Stkptr * (+246) /* Derivative */
19:24:40 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156364&oldid=156362 * Junkshipp * (-2)
19:24:59 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156365&oldid=156364 * Junkshipp * (+166) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:25:12 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156366&oldid=156365 * Junkshipp * (+2) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:26:03 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156367&oldid=156366 * Junkshipp * (+62) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:26:36 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156368&oldid=156367 * Junkshipp * (+4)
19:29:41 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156369&oldid=156368 * Junkshipp * (+96) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:32:04 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156370&oldid=156369 * Junkshipp * (-24) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:32:24 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156371&oldid=156370 * Junkshipp * (-2) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:34:15 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156372&oldid=156371 * Junkshipp * (+117) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:34:28 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156373&oldid=156372 * Junkshipp * (+1) /* Translation of PA sentences */
19:36:57 <esolangs> [[JUICE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156374 * Siim * (+681) JUICE is an esolang created by Siim
19:41:46 <esolangs> [[JUICE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156375&oldid=156374 * Siim * (+395)
19:42:07 <esolangs> [[JUICE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156376&oldid=156375 * Siim * (+5)
19:46:42 <esolangs> [[JUICE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156377&oldid=156376 * Siim * (+23)
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19:55:09 <esolangs> [[REGXY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156378&oldid=43869 * Stkptr * (+1) It's rather expressive for a "tarpit"
20:02:27 <esolangs> [[JUICE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156379&oldid=156377 * Siim * (+264)
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20:09:23 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156380&oldid=156227 * Corbin * (+2533) Unstub. This is still horrible-looking, but I'll hopefully get it to something half-readable soon.
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20:28:08 <int-e> b_jonas: I made what I think is a fun stack memory with two transistors per cell in shapez.io: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-stack2-phase0.png (there's -phase1 as well; PUSH and POP are falling edge triggered)
20:37:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156381&oldid=156348 * Buckets * (+11)
20:38:08 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156382&oldid=156118 * Buckets * (+10)
20:39:41 <esolangs> [[Bell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156383 * Buckets * (+6341) Created page with "Bell is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in An Unknown year. Bell is Solely a programming language For creating games; Games with n Dimensions. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Shortened Commands !! Instructions |- | ` || ` || Toggle to S
20:42:31 <b_jonas> int-e: are those gates on the left making the control lines on the right get a single-tick signal?
20:43:55 <b_jonas> the wire to he left of the not-gate in the middle, how does that ever get a signal? there doesn't seem to be any output connected to it
20:47:24 <int-e> b_jonas: the "steady" state has both control lines alternate between 1 and 0 at opposite phases
20:48:41 <int-e> and push and pop extend one of the cycles by one tick
20:48:56 <int-e> which is delicate because you have to hit the right cycle to extend :)
20:50:16 <int-e> b_jonas: if I understand which wire you mean correctly... the output of the xor gate is connected to it
20:57:55 <esolangs> [[Searchfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156384&oldid=156344 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+58) Rectified two errors in the Common Lisp implementation.
21:12:39 <int-e> b_jonas: here's a short writeup (and another, less delicate design) https://int-e.eu/~bf3/shapez/stack.html
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22:08:01 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156385&oldid=156298 * Dmiz * (+53)
22:10:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156386&oldid=156381 * Treeplate * (+14) add Cowlang
22:11:09 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156387&oldid=156385 * Dmiz * (-78)
22:12:06 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156388&oldid=156338 * Treeplate * (+14) add Cowlang
22:14:12 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156389&oldid=156387 * Dmiz * (+27)
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22:16:31 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156390&oldid=156389 * Dmiz * (+2)
22:20:39 <esolangs> [[Cowlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156391&oldid=155407 * Treeplate * (+433) add list stuff, categories
22:26:15 <esolangs> [[Cowlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156392&oldid=156391 * Treeplate * (+58) more cats
22:54:40 <esolangs> [[Snub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156393&oldid=151169 * Buckets * (+20)
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23:20:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nukemoose * New user account
23:33:07 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156394&oldid=156363 * Stkptr * (-312) /* Extensions */
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00:03:42 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156395&oldid=156394 * Stkptr * (+2269)
00:10:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Gameknight * New user account
00:30:14 <esolangs> [[User:Gameknight]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156396 * Helpeesl * (+0) This article was made to spite stkptr
00:33:28 <esolangs> [[REBEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156397&oldid=53098 * Stkptr * (+351)
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04:36:34 <zzo38> Do you have a example file with EUC-JP and with EUC-CN and with EUC-KR?
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07:49:15 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156398&oldid=156337 * JIT * (+39)
08:09:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156399&oldid=156328 * JIT * (+248)
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09:32:45 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156400&oldid=156398 * JIT * (+41)
09:43:42 <esolangs> [[4gn/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156401&oldid=155974 * JIT * (+53)
09:58:37 <esolangs> [[Minsky machine busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156402&oldid=155340 * C++DSUCKER * (-579)
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11:39:15 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156403&oldid=156045 * None1 * (-26)
11:45:31 <esolangs> [[FooProg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156404&oldid=156403 * None1 * (+54) /* Example programs */
11:50:05 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156405&oldid=156388 * None1 * (+13) /* V */ Vector fits the constraints
12:29:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bespoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156406&oldid=153297 * Neon * (-407) I gave up on the powershelgl project and my procastination just doesn't look all that nice on the site.
12:32:25 <esolangs> [[Surreal FOREVER loop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156407&oldid=82299 * Neon * (+23) Small grammar corrections...
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13:57:05 <esolangs> [[User:TheSpiderNinjas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156408&oldid=156083 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+18) edited my page
13:57:39 <esolangs> [[User:TheSpiderNinjas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156409&oldid=156408 * TheSpiderNinjas * (+25)
14:11:24 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156410&oldid=153631 * C++DSUCKER * (-386)
14:56:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156411&oldid=150336 * PkmnQ * (+149)
14:58:20 <esolangs> [[Cyclic tag system]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156412&oldid=142190 * Stkptr * (+1603) Add Cook's proof
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16:10:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156413&oldid=156386 * Siim * (+12) /* Non-alphabetic */
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16:21:28 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156414&oldid=156335 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+4) Deleted this page
16:22:44 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156415&oldid=156414 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+6) ???
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16:47:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bellawawa * New user account
16:51:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156416&oldid=156339 * Bellawawa * (+157) /* Introductions */
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17:42:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosmalt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156417&oldid=150885 * TenBillionPlusOne * (+43)
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17:49:09 <esolangs> [[Brainfunct]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156418&oldid=108405 * Gapples2 * (+769) computational class
17:57:32 <esolangs> [[Brainfunct]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156419&oldid=156418 * Gapples2 * (-13) edit computational class in info box
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18:03:53 <esolangs> [[Charred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156420&oldid=122550 * Gapples2 * (+305) computational class BSM
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18:38:28 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156421&oldid=156380 * Corbin * (+1703) /* Example */ Add the classic BF-to-C program.
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19:00:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156422&oldid=156340 * Hotcrystal0 * (+417)
19:00:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156423&oldid=156422 * Hotcrystal0 * (-916)
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19:26:46 <esolangs> [[Bell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156424&oldid=156383 * Buckets * (+1)
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20:21:55 <esolangs> [[Ralative 1 Bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156425&oldid=156270 * Krolkrol * (+3)
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20:51:32 <esolangs> [[Surreal FOREVER loop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156426&oldid=156407 * Stkptr * (+611)
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21:09:30 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156427&oldid=152717 * Ractangle * (+0)
21:11:40 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156428&oldid=156427 * Ractangle * (-33) /* Not specifying a type or specify a non-existent type to a variable (as long as it's not defined) */
21:12:15 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156429&oldid=156428 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Using anything BUT tabs or spaces as indentation */
21:14:12 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156430&oldid=152502 * Ractangle * (+26)
21:16:01 <esolangs> [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156431&oldid=156430 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Syntax */
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22:01:13 <esolangs> [[Iterated regex]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156432 * Stkptr * (+6838) Create page, more to come
22:01:36 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156433&oldid=156395 * Stkptr * (-1834)
22:02:33 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156434&oldid=156433 * Stkptr * (+65) /* Common use */
22:38:02 <esolangs> [[^24]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156435 * Helpeesl * (+1306) Created page with "^24 is an esolang created by [[user:helpeesl]] on April 22nd 2025 and is written in hex. == commands == === operators 0-3 6-7 B === These commands take two inputs, a and b, where a has to be the first variable and a is the one thats changed to a operator b ==== 0(+) ==== a
22:38:32 <esolangs> [[^24]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156436&oldid=156435 * Helpeesl * (+1)
22:41:37 <esolangs> [[^24]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156437&oldid=156436 * Helpeesl * (+2)
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22:48:33 <esolangs> [[^24]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156438&oldid=156437 * Helpeesl * (+2)
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23:04:29 <esolangs> [[^42]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156439 * Helpeesl * (+7) Created page with "[[^24]]"
23:04:57 <esolangs> [[^24]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156440&oldid=156438 * Helpeesl * (+20)
23:05:23 <esolangs> [[^24]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156441&oldid=156440 * Helpeesl * (+12)
23:06:30 <esolangs> [[User:Helpeesl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156442&oldid=156331 * Helpeesl * (+17)
23:53:00 <esolangs> [[^42]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156443&oldid=156439 * Stkptr * (+10) Redirected page to [[^24]]
00:06:19 <esolangs> [[Unrestricted grammar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156444&oldid=155828 * Stkptr * (+21) Changed redirect target from [[Formal grammar]] to [[Formal grammar#Type 0: unrestricted]]
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00:36:58 <esolangs> [[Iterated regex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156445&oldid=156432 * Stkptr * (+3314)
00:45:47 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156446&oldid=156390 * Dmiz * (+77)
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04:06:37 <esolangs> [[Metacompiler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156447&oldid=156232 * Corbin * (+208) Add an excellent quote from Dr. Kay.
04:59:54 <esolangs> [[Try to Take]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156448&oldid=156373 * Hakerh400 * (+160) Add implementation
05:17:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156449&oldid=155144 * PrySigneToFry * (+123) /* Someone is trying to summon you! */ new section
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05:19:56 <esolangs> [[User:47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156450&oldid=156354 * PrySigneToFry * (+126) Fixing format
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05:50:36 <esolangs> [[Nondeterministic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156451 * Stkptr * (+4349) Created page with "In computer science, a system is considered '''nondeterministic''' if, at some point during its evolution, there are multiple valid paths it can take in a single step. Nondeterminism literally means lacking determinism. Determinism in this context refers to the
05:51:12 <esolangs> [[Category:Nondeterministic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156452&oldid=33645 * Stkptr * (+4)
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06:54:50 <esolangs> [[User:47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156453&oldid=156450 * Ractangle * (-126) i think a header whould be better
06:56:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156454&oldid=156449 * Ractangle * (+223) /* Someone is trying to summon you! */
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07:29:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156455&oldid=156454 * I am islptng * (+90) /* Someone is trying to summon you! */
07:33:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156456&oldid=156455 * I am islptng * (+573) /* Someone is trying to summon you! */
07:44:33 <esolangs> [[Markov algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156457&oldid=137578 * Stkptr * (-1498) Replace with Markov algorithms, rather than Markov property
07:47:35 <esolangs> [[Markov algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156458&oldid=156457 * Stkptr * (+55)
07:52:33 <esolangs> [[Markov algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156459&oldid=156458 * Stkptr * (+403)
08:00:45 <esolangs> [[Binary to unary conversion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156460&oldid=136646 * Stkptr * (-27)
08:01:02 <esolangs> [[Marthue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156461&oldid=136706 * Stkptr * (-27)
08:01:29 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156462&oldid=127255 * Stkptr * (-27)
08:03:07 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156463&oldid=156462 * Stkptr * (-10) It ends when all rules have been applied
08:03:16 <esolangs> [[Unfunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156464 * JIT * (+1691) Created page with "Unfunge is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 ''"I wonder what's the smallest subset of [[Befunge]] that's still [[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]]" '' : -[[User:JIT]], 2025 {| class="wikitable" !Cmd !Description |- |<code>+</code> |Addition: Pop two values a and
08:04:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156465&oldid=156413 * JIT * (+14)
08:05:08 <esolangs> [[Transet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156466&oldid=136745 * Stkptr * (-40)
08:10:31 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156467&oldid=156434 * Stkptr * (+15) /* Languages */
08:10:57 <esolangs> [[Markov algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156468&oldid=156459 * Stkptr * (+83)
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10:30:47 <esolangs> [[Unfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156469&oldid=156464 * JIT * (+85)
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12:35:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156470&oldid=156143 * Hotcrystal0 * (+282)
12:44:18 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156471&oldid=156283 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2)
12:45:03 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156472&oldid=156471 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0)
12:45:58 <esolangs> [[Unfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156473&oldid=156469 * PkmnQ * (+35) not to be confused with [[Unefunge]]
12:47:42 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/List of users who are also on the TBG forums]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156474&oldid=153790 * Hotcrystal0 * (+55)
12:55:54 <esolangs> [[Unfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156475&oldid=156473 * JIT * (+2) /* Cat program* */
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14:03:57 <esolangs> [[Nondeterministic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156476&oldid=156451 * PkmnQ * (+0) /* See also */
14:04:35 <esolangs> [[Ash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156477&oldid=154272 * PkmnQ * (+27) /* External resources */
14:21:12 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156478&oldid=156472 * PrySigneToFry * (+35)
14:23:42 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156479&oldid=156478 * PrySigneToFry * (+52)
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15:05:24 <esolangs> [[Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156480&oldid=55596 * Neon * (+97) Added implementation sub
15:06:08 <esolangs> [[Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156481&oldid=156480 * Neon * (+10)
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15:24:43 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156482 * Neon * (+1487) first version
15:25:35 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156483&oldid=156482 * Neon * (+8)
15:29:04 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156484&oldid=156483 * Neon * (+264)
15:29:55 <esolangs> [[User:Neon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156485&oldid=156484 * Neon * (+49) /* Neon */
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15:35:05 <esolangs> [[Tmg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156486&oldid=155806 * Corbin * (-10) /* History */ Bluelink.
15:35:38 <Guest35> is linking to wikipedia allowed?
15:36:34 <FireFly> pretty sure it is? I don't see why it wouldn't be
15:36:42 <HackEso> uest35: elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: <ttps://solangs.rg/>. (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n Fnet r ALnet.)
15:36:43 <korvo> Guest35: Of course! We have the interwiki syntax set up too, so you can write [[wikipedia:bluelinks]] like this.
15:37:11 <int-e> (not in IRC, korvo is talking about the esolang wiki)
15:37:46 <FireFly> oh right I also kind of assumed for the esolangs wiki tbh
15:38:07 <HackEso> welcome "$@" | sed s/\\\<.//g
15:38:07 <korvo> It didn't even occur to me that folks would disallow linking to WP on IRC.
15:38:37 <Guest35> i was asking about wikipedia linking in esolangs
15:38:58 <FireFly> yeah, what korvo mentioned should work then ^^
15:45:10 <int-e> Yeah I think of this channel as a place to discuss esoteric programming related things first, and point of contact for the wiki second. (Which reflects both its actual use and its history.)
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17:06:27 <esolangs> [[FOSMOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156487&oldid=154568 * Aadenboy * (+404) additional functionality and Nth element macro
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17:23:41 <esolangs> [[FOSMOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156488&oldid=156487 * Aadenboy * (-2)
17:40:44 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156489&oldid=156479 * Hotcrystal0 * (+23)
17:41:38 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156490&oldid=156489 * Hotcrystal0 * (-33)
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17:49:55 <esolangs> [[Binary tag]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156491 * Stkptr * (+1766) Created page with ": ''Not to be confused with [[tag system|2-tag]] or [[bi-tag system|bi-tag]].'' '''Binary tag''' refers to specific [[tag system]]s where there are only two symbols.<ref>Neary, Turlough. (2013, Dec 19). Undecidability in binary tag systems and the Post correspondence
17:54:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156492&oldid=156470 * Hotcrystal0 * (+355) /* not in the title */ new section
18:15:52 <Guest9628> i was just reading that page a few hours ago
18:24:36 <korvo> Happens. The wiki's a lot smaller than it seems.
18:32:48 <esolangs> [[McCulloch's third machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156493&oldid=105567 * Stkptr * (+4)
18:35:56 <esolangs> [[Markov algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156494&oldid=156468 * Stkptr * (+35)
18:42:43 <esolangs> [[RegRep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156495&oldid=128830 * Stkptr * (+29) It's Turing complete with 1 regex
18:43:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosmalt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156496&oldid=156417 * Ais523 * (-43) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/156417|156417]] by [[Special:Contributions/TenBillionPlusOne|TenBillionPlusOne]] ([[User talk:TenBillionPlusOne|talk]]) this doesn't appear to be a message directed at the person the user talk page is associated with
18:46:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156497&oldid=156492 * Hotcrystal0 * (-355)
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18:58:10 <esolangs> [[SRL++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156498&oldid=91875 * Stkptr * (+29) Turing complete with 1 bank and 1 statement
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19:20:40 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156499&oldid=156467 * Stkptr * (+386) /* Languages */
19:29:49 <esolangs> [[Regular expression]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156500&oldid=156499 * Stkptr * (+106) /* Languages */
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19:41:47 <esolangs> [[Redivider]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156501&oldid=70973 * Stkptr * (+28)
19:46:49 <esolangs> [[Iterated regex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156502&oldid=156445 * Stkptr * (+2) /* Selected programs */
20:17:31 <esolangs> [[Trampolines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156503&oldid=152574 * Aadenboy * (-86)
20:26:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156504&oldid=156465 * Buckets * (+14)
20:27:11 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156505&oldid=156382 * Buckets * (+13)
20:27:25 <esolangs> [[Hixgred]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156506 * Buckets * (+2675) Created page with "Hixgred is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2025. (The Coordinates of A Hexe is Just it's Index, The first Hexe is Index 0, The first line is 0.) {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | "" || Prints What is Entered within
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22:12:33 <Sgeo_> Watching a video on tropical geometry makes me want to find the log here where I blathered about a ? operation, and someone started talking about tropical geometry.
22:12:38 <Sgeo_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iF9h9fePYk
22:15:26 <korvo> Huh, I'm not the only person seeing Zundamon's videos shared more often, I guess. They seem fairly careful and accurate when talking about number theory, although the actual aesthetics are not really my thing.
22:23:27 <esolangs> [[Syntax Null Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156507&oldid=155802 * Akira * (+323)
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23:24:55 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156508&oldid=156446 * Dmiz * (-6)
23:28:19 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156509 * RainbowDash * (+3220) Page created
23:28:41 <esolangs> [[Infinite-noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156510&oldid=145397 * RainbowDash * (-2801) can someone delete this page
23:30:44 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156511&oldid=152474 * RainbowDash * (-9)
23:40:37 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156512&oldid=156509 * RainbowDash * (+94) matt parker
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01:34:54 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156513&oldid=156508 * Dmiz * (+12)
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06:09:49 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156514 * Stkptr * (+3445) Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{infobox proglang |name=qoob |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:stkptr]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |memsys=[[queue]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[Turing complete]] |refimpl=... |influence=[[Cyclic tag]], [[brainfuck]], [[G85]], [[Queuenanimous]
06:10:05 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156515&oldid=156514 * Stkptr * (-2)
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06:15:39 <esolangs> [[G85]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156516&oldid=99946 * Stkptr * (+407)
06:34:11 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156517&oldid=156515 * Stkptr * (-6) /* Computational class */
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07:03:16 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156518&oldid=156517 * Stkptr * (+19)
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07:34:03 <esolangs> [[Unfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156519&oldid=156475 * JIT * (+29)
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08:05:30 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156520&oldid=156518 * Stkptr * (+1269)
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08:39:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KTILTED * New user account
09:04:24 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156521&oldid=156520 * Stkptr * (+1232) /* Implementations */
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09:54:32 <esolangs> [[ArrowFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156522&oldid=156296 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+94) Introduced a See also section which references the Brainmulti programming language.
09:55:41 <esolangs> [[Brainmulti]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156523&oldid=140767 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+89) Introduced a See also section which references the ArrowFuck programming language.
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11:22:55 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156524&oldid=156490 * PrySigneToFry * (+28)
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12:01:28 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156525&oldid=155664 * JIT * (+142)
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12:23:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:XKCD Wrong Times Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156526&oldid=109533 * JIT * (+3)
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13:06:16 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156527&oldid=156524 * Hotcrystal0 * (+24)
13:11:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156528&oldid=156497 * Hotcrystal0 * (+276)
13:18:14 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156529&oldid=156415 * Hotcrystal0 * (-13) I think LittleLWSS is trusted now?
13:18:54 <esolangs> [[User:I am islptng/List of the users that is also in conwaylife.com]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156530&oldid=156529 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) capitalization fix
13:28:45 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156531&oldid=156521 * Keymaker * (+51) Mentioned that queue cannot be empty when dequeued (if I'm not mistaken).
13:32:37 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156532&oldid=156512 * RainbowDash * (+297) More specifcation
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13:41:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156533&oldid=154166 * Hotcrystal0 * (+327)
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14:23:35 <esolangs> [[OUI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156534 * Zoda * (+969) Page created
14:27:46 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156535&oldid=156504 * Zoda * (+10) Added 'OUI'.
14:31:05 <esolangs> [[User:Zoda]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156536&oldid=112438 * Zoda * (+143) Added more details to page.
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14:43:29 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156537&oldid=156532 * Corbin * (-20) /* See also */ Remove tracking data from video link.
14:46:11 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156538&oldid=156537 * RainbowDash * (+29) Me
14:50:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:Noise automata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156539 * Corbin * (+266) Is this actually a new concept or a new way of looking at an old concept?
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15:26:39 <esolangs> [[BrainXXXXXXXXXXx]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156540&oldid=148400 * Darkloyd255 * (+9)
15:27:35 <esolangs> [[NO(t) MORE(than)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156541&oldid=139473 * Darkloyd255 * (+9)
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15:30:20 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/O(n) CGoL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156542 * Aadenboy * (+1066) Created page with "O(n) implementation of [[Conway's Game of Life]]. Worded off of my Lua implementation of such. # All currently alive cells are stored in a hashmap B, where the key is the position of the cell. # Create two new empty hashmaps, one hashmap H for the coun
15:30:48 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156543&oldid=154529 * Aadenboy * (+30) /* anything else */ add [[User:Aadenboy/O(n) CGoL]]
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15:31:27 <esolangs> [[HuffPuff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156544&oldid=104574 * Darkloyd255 * (+9)
15:37:53 <esolangs> [[HuffPuff]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156545&oldid=156544 * Aadenboy * (-21) [[Esolang:Authors|include the User: prefix]]
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16:16:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Stkptr * moved [[@!+-() Turing-completeness Proof]] to [[Queuefuck]]: The language presented is worthy of its own page
16:23:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156548&oldid=156533 * PkmnQ * (+143) /* Inactive on Scratch? */
16:23:57 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156549&oldid=156531 * Stkptr * (+224)
16:27:40 <esolangs> [[Estrita]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156550&oldid=148883 * Aadenboy * (-24) move icon to infobox
16:28:50 <esolangs> [[Queuefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156551&oldid=156546 * Stkptr * (+466)
16:30:19 <esolangs> [[Queuenanimous]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156552&oldid=79639 * Stkptr * (+31)
16:35:18 <esolangs> [[Queuefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156553&oldid=156551 * Aadenboy * (+29) turing complete category
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16:58:46 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156554&oldid=156549 * Stkptr * (+493) /* Implementations */
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17:06:13 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156555&oldid=156554 * Stkptr * (+250)
17:12:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156556&oldid=156548 * Hotcrystal0 * (+292)
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17:39:12 <esolangs> [[Category:Pages with math render errors]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156557 * Stkptr * (+358) Created page with "This is an automatically generated category which is added to pages where <math></math> wikitext failed to properly render. This can be due to erroneous LaTeX, or failure to connect to the rendering server. If the latter, you can refresh the
17:39:15 <esolangs> [[Category:Pages with math errors]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156558 * Stkptr * (+358) Created page with "This is an automatically generated category which is added to pages where <math></math> wikitext failed to properly render. This can be due to erroneous LaTeX, or failure to connect to the rendering server. If the latter, you can refresh the page r
17:42:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156559&oldid=156174 * Stkptr * (+692) /* Suggestion: lost category */ new section
17:43:02 <korvo> Huh, those are quite nifty automatic categories. I wonder how they discovered that feature.
17:43:07 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156560&oldid=156555 * Stkptr * (-74) /* Implementations */ Assume jump pops
17:45:22 <fizzie> But why is the description identical when the list of pages isn't?
18:00:31 <ais523> there are quite a lot of obscure autocategories like that
18:00:48 <ais523> but they typically only trigger if someone does the correct obscure thing to cause the category to be added
18:02:07 <esolangs> [[OUI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156561&oldid=156534 * Stkptr * (+39)
18:02:10 <ais523> I can't remember most of them – I think one of them triggers if you try to #ifexist: 101 different pages?
18:04:16 <esolangs> [[Category:Meta-languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156562&oldid=13652 * Stkptr * (+144)
18:05:09 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156563&oldid=156229 * Stkptr * (+51)
18:08:33 <korvo> Hm. Should that category itself be in [[Category:Languages]]? Is there some meta I'm missing?
18:13:24 <esolangs> [[Zaddy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156564&oldid=156421 * Corbin * (+28) Oh hey, a category.
18:21:40 <ais523> korvo: so if there's a programming language that is only capable of producing programming language implementations, that makes it different in some sense from regular languages – and at least in the early days of the wiki there was a clear distinction because languages like that weren't usable for the same things as regular esolangs
18:22:02 <ais523> so I suspect the distinction was based on practicality, not whether or not metalanguages are technically languages
18:22:54 <ais523> that said, I think the best example of that sort of thing is https://esolangs.org/wiki/ALPACA which is in Category:Languages anyway, somehow
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18:28:43 <esolangs> [[Category:Pages with math render errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156565&oldid=156557 * Aadenboy * (+86) additional method
18:29:07 <esolangs> [[Category:Pages with math errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156566&oldid=156558 * Aadenboy * (+86) additional method
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18:30:17 <korvo> ais523: Oh, sure, that makes sense. I was thinking specifically about [[:category:meta-languages]] having a [[category:languages]] tag, though.
18:31:18 <ais523> right – it depends mostly on whether someone looking for languages would also be interested in metalanguages
18:31:28 <ais523> both the language list, and Category:Languages, have been a mess for years
18:31:39 <ais523> they were more manageable when the wiki was smaller
18:32:06 <ais523> I didn't predict the rise of people creating multiple new esolangs per day
18:33:39 <korvo> I think that the time has long past to remove [[language list]], but it would still be a good idea.
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18:35:37 <ais523> it would probably be beneficial to have a big discussion about wiki reorganisation some day, but I'm not sure who'd be involved or how it would work – I think you'd need an agreement among admins first, and then to open it to users in general to see how they reacted
18:36:08 <ais523> but nowadays there aren't many active admins, and it may be hard to figure out the whole list of problems that we want to fix
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18:43:04 <esolangs> [[META II]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156567&oldid=156563 * Stkptr * (+226)
19:24:02 <int-e> impomatic: I've submitted so many new solutions to the old box-256 game in the past couple of weeks because somebody nerd-sniped me (on a different channel on this network)
19:24:39 <int-e> (including your Hilbert Curve level)
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20:02:35 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156568&oldid=156560 * Stkptr * (+744)
20:06:49 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156569&oldid=156568 * Stkptr * (+192)
20:08:50 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156570&oldid=156569 * Stkptr * (+24)
20:15:36 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156571&oldid=156570 * Stkptr * (-14)
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20:30:27 <esolangs> [[NO(t) MORE(than)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156572&oldid=156541 * Ractangle * (-9) no
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21:56:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156573&oldid=156539 * RainbowDash * (+832) Corbin response
22:04:30 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156574&oldid=156538 * RainbowDash * (+92)
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23:15:25 <esolangs> [[User:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156575&oldid=155831 * Stkptr * (-992)
23:33:51 <esolangs> [[User:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156576&oldid=156575 * Stkptr * (+382)
23:38:29 <esolangs> [[Version]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156577&oldid=42587 * Stkptr * (+90)
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23:49:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zhil * New user account
23:53:38 <esolangs> [[User:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156578&oldid=156576 * Stkptr * (+129)
23:55:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156579&oldid=156416 * Zhil * (+157)
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00:46:15 <esolangs> [[User:Stkptr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156580&oldid=156578 * Stkptr * (+174)
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00:52:24 <esolangs> [[Qoob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156581&oldid=156571 * Stkptr * (-63) Palindromic qoob programs probably don't exist
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01:27:29 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156582 * Zhil * (+4951) Initial description
01:36:51 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156583&oldid=156582 * Zhil * (+11) Small syntax mistake fixed
01:54:14 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156584&oldid=156583 * Zhil * (+431)
02:07:02 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156585&oldid=156584 * Zhil * (+116) Added external interpreter
02:15:37 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156586&oldid=156585 * Zhil * (+2566) Added Kerby combinators
02:22:29 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156587&oldid=156586 * Zhil * (+14)
02:26:39 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156588&oldid=156587 * Xylochoron * (+4) Updating the website that my (Eric Parfitt's) interpreter points to
03:29:40 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156589&oldid=156588 * Zhil * (+47) Added parenless s
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05:02:08 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156590&oldid=156589 * Zhil * (-5)
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07:22:36 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156591&oldid=156535 * C++DSUCKER * (+12)
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09:18:24 <esolangs> [[oxck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156592&oldid=134062 * Timwi * (+27) Category:Unimplemented
09:20:07 <esolangs> [[oxck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156593&oldid=156592 * Timwi * (+3) /* functions */ fix
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10:14:52 <esolangs> [[Unrandom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156594&oldid=74855 * Krolkrol * (+76)
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11:23:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156595&oldid=156528 * PrySigneToFry * (+215)
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12:18:22 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156596&oldid=156590 * Zhil * (-5)
12:38:08 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156597&oldid=156595 * Hotcrystal0 * (+283)
12:47:30 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156598&oldid=156527 * Hotcrystal0 * (+39)
12:50:08 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156599&oldid=156598 * Hotcrystal0 * (-39)
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14:08:56 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156600&oldid=156599 * PrySigneToFry * (+106)
14:13:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Figglebottom * New user account
14:16:56 <esolangs> [[User:5anz/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156601&oldid=155100 * 5anz * (-843) /* Question 1 */
14:17:54 <esolangs> [[User:5anz/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156602&oldid=156601 * 5anz * (-842) /* Question 2 */
14:21:23 <esolangs> [[Taurus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156603 * PrySigneToFry * (+7823) Created page with "Taurus is an Esoteric Programming Language designed by PrySigneToFry. It will be presented to all users with a sci-fi, cool, Turing-complete, powerful, and efficient look. = Basic syntax overview = Taurus is inspired by Swift, Python, and Javascript. == Comment
14:22:58 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156604&oldid=156596 * Zhil * (-3)
14:24:02 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156605&oldid=156604 * Zhil * (-6)
14:24:25 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156606&oldid=156591 * PrySigneToFry * (+13)
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14:48:56 <esolangs> [[Relative TOGA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156607 * C++DSUCKER * (+693) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Relative TOGA |author=[[User:C++DSUCKER]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|tape]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |majorimpl=[[Relative TOGA/Interpreters]] }}
14:49:36 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156608&oldid=156600 * Hotcrystal0 * (+85)
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14:57:21 <esolangs> [[Relative TOGA/Interpreters]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156609 * C++DSUCKER * (+364) Created page with "== C++ implementation == <pre> #include <iostream> #include <array> #include <stdint.h> // Define the instruction #define F(a,b) p += a; A[p] ^= true; if (A[p]) {goto b;} int main() { std::array<bool,65536> A; A.fill(false); uint16_t p
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15:30:19 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156610&oldid=156608 * PrySigneToFry * (+18)
15:34:09 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156611&oldid=156605 * Zhil * (+702) Added section on evaluation
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16:20:56 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156612&oldid=156611 * Pro465 * (-1) /* Kerby Combinators */ reduce s' parenful impl by 1 character
16:29:16 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156613&oldid=156612 * Zhil * (+2)
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17:19:12 <Sgeo_> Is there a name for the thing where 2x = x + x?
17:19:44 <Sgeo_> Because I think projectively extended real numbers violates it. 2*infinity = infinity but infinity + infinity is undefined.
17:20:20 <Sgeo_> I feel like it's the same with how in real numbers, you need to annotate that stuff doesn't equal 0 when you do certain operations.
17:21:10 <ais523> Sgeo_: so the normal way to prove 2x = x + x is as 2x = (1 + 1)x = 1x + 1x = x + x
17:21:29 <ais523> so assuming you're happy to define 2 as 1+1, the violated rule is distributivity of multiplication over addition
17:23:46 <ais523> (I guess that's not so surprising – most of the ring rules don't relate addition to multiplication, so if you want to prove an addition equals a multiplication, you have to use the one that does)
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18:03:15 <esolangs> [[Queuenanimous]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156614&oldid=156552 * Gapples2 * (+849) computational class TC
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19:57:06 <esolangs> [[User:Gilbert189/Babalang+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156615&oldid=135854 * Gilbert189 * (+2017)
20:10:25 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156616 * Stkptr * (+8689) Preliminary
20:12:48 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156617&oldid=156613 * Zhil * (+78) Changes to semantics
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20:42:30 <b_jonas> IEEE arithmetic has this weird quirk where the unit for addition is -0 but the absorbing element for multiplication is +0. I still don't really understand why they defined the arithmetic this way, I hope there's some advantage that overweighs that weirdness.
20:42:40 <b_jonas> s/IEEE/IEEE floating point/
20:43:11 <b_jonas> (this applies to the round to nearest rounding mode)
20:45:54 <b_jonas> ok no, that's not really right the way I told it
20:46:41 <b_jonas> neither +0 nor -0 are really absorbing elements for multiplication, because (-1)*(+0)=-0 but (+1)*(-0)=+0,
20:48:12 <b_jonas> -0 is the unit for addition because (-0)+x=x=x+(-0); but x-x=+0 for finite x, but the latter is less important because it breaks for infinite x anyway
20:54:11 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156618&oldid=156616 * Stkptr * (+8) /* Evaluation */ reduce((-)||+) reduce((-))||reduce(+)
21:09:40 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156619&oldid=156618 * Stkptr * (+93) /* Combinators */
21:15:17 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156620&oldid=156619 * Stkptr * (+15)
21:16:51 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156621&oldid=156620 * Corbin * (+12) /* See also */
21:27:34 <esolangs> [[Nondeterministic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156622&oldid=156476 * Stkptr * (+311)
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22:12:39 <esolangs> [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156623&oldid=156513 * Dmiz * (+57)
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23:00:28 <HackEso> astramast: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:03:13 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156624&oldid=156621 * Stkptr * (+46)
23:13:28 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156625&oldid=156610 * Hotcrystal0 * (+36)
23:22:30 <esolangs> [[Functional calculus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=156626 * Stkptr * (+685) They are all relatives yet have no good umbrella term
23:22:32 <zzo38> There is jq for working with JSON (and some variants for some other formats), but is there the one for BER and DER (without requiring a schema, and that does not use Unicode except for the Unicode string types)?
23:22:52 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156627&oldid=156624 * Stkptr * (+24)
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23:26:39 <esolangs> [[Combinatory logic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156628&oldid=154974 * Stkptr * (+160)
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00:05:26 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156629&oldid=156617 * Stkptr * (+693)
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00:17:40 <Sgeo_> I'm vaguely curious about systems with both +0 and -0 other than IEEE floating point, which I kind of assumed was just hacky
00:17:50 <Sgeo_> *both +0 and -0 as distinct values
00:20:41 <chloetax> oh neat, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signed_zero
00:23:21 <zzo38> I think transreal numbers have positive and negative zero, and also nullity, but transreal numbers defines nullity equal to itself rather than IEEE doesn't
01:25:09 <esolangs> [[User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/Chess between HCr0 and PSTF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156630&oldid=156625 * PrySigneToFry * (+113)
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01:51:07 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156631&oldid=153438 * RainbowDash * (+144)
02:01:10 <esolangs> [[Lythnology]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156632&oldid=156631 * RainbowDash * (+42) /* Transforming */
02:30:06 <esolangs> [[Mlatu-6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156633&oldid=156629 * Zhil * (+63) Added {a, b, c}
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02:55:14 <esolangs> [[B i n a r y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156634&oldid=134996 * PrySigneToFry * (+69) An example for converting base-10 system to balanced base-3 system then B i n a r y base-2 system.
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03:08:33 <esolangs> [[Concatenative calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156635&oldid=156627 * Stkptr * (+11)
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04:11:05 <esolangs> [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156636&oldid=156511 * RainbowDash * (-9)
04:24:02 <zzo38> I think that, with my idea of an instruction set with "capability" values, that there is the possibility that an uninitialized variable in C can sometimes lead to crashes where in other systems it won't; sometimes even just trying to assign the value of one variable to another will crash the program, if the one being copied from is uninitialized.
04:34:42 <zzo38> I thought that {} should always initialize everything regardless of whether or not there is anything in between the braces, and that {0} should only be valid if the first member is a numeric or pointer type (but otherwise has the same effect as {} with nothing in between). I thought that would make more sense, isn't it?
05:17:21 <esolangs> [[Noise automata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156637&oldid=156574 * RainbowDash * (+347) stkptr found this stuff out i just wrote it
05:39:47 <esolangs> [[Brainf ck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156638&oldid=132158 * Stkptr * (+212)
05:45:45 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156639&oldid=116029 * Stkptr * (+130)
06:00:48 <esolangs> [[Bogus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156640&oldid=122240 * Stkptr * (+449)
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06:30:40 <esolangs> [[Nondeterministic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156641&oldid=156622 * Stkptr * (+429)
06:42:12 <esolangs> [[Blank]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156642&oldid=55003 * Stkptr * (+396)
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07:01:47 <esolangs> [[Bitwise Scanner]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156643&oldid=151229 * Stkptr * (+573)
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07:12:50 <esolangs> [[BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156644&oldid=108563 * Stkptr * (-12) Counter machines
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07:21:32 <esolangs> [[256]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=156645&oldid=145121 * Stkptr * (-156)
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