←2004-06 2004-07 2004-08→ ↑2004 ↑all
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04:14:54 <WildHalcyon> I figured out what was wrong with my bloody computer!
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05:06:53 <Toreun> hi tonsofpcs
05:07:14 <tonsofpcs> hi little french-israeli girl
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05:09:52 <Toreun> hi WildHalcyon
05:10:00 <Toreun> what was wrong with your comp?
05:10:24 <tonsofpcs> he sees your name on his screen
05:44:08 <tonsofpcs> wild -- check where he got his name from -- its a list of french-israeli girl names
05:44:21 <tonsofpcs> http://gardiensdudonon.free.fr/t/Nom_F-Ton.htm
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06:10:12 <WildHalcyon> hmm...
06:10:27 <WildHalcyon> no, no french israli girl names, not that you're here anymore!
06:11:07 <WildHalcyon> Anyhow, Toreun, it turns out that SOMETHING has a conflict with one of the windows automatic updates... once I installed it, it would screw up alllllll the time!
06:11:08 * heatsink wonders if there's a nonsense contest in progress
06:11:21 * WildHalcyon is best at talking nonsense
06:13:13 <WildHalcyon> Im still having problems with my esolang :-(
06:13:31 <WildHalcyon> but at least that's a problem with my own thinking process, and not a manufactured malfunction
06:13:46 <heatsink> Hmm... what is it? I'll try to find it in the archives
06:14:03 <WildHalcyon> I dont know if I mentioned it there
06:14:21 <WildHalcyon> I mentioned some problems, but the problem that Im having right now is different
06:14:37 <WildHalcyon> Im trying to think of a usable syntax for a two-dimensional lambda function
06:14:40 <heatsink> Tell me about your different problem, WildHalcyon?
06:14:54 <heatsink> Do you try to think of a usable syntax for a two-dimensional lambda function often?
06:14:59 * heatsink turns off Eliza
06:15:10 <heatsink> okay
06:15:53 <WildHalcyon> Yes, constantly practically
06:15:56 <WildHalcyon> who is Eliza?
06:16:25 <heatsink> Eliza is an old chatterbot, it worked by turning everything the other person said into a question
06:17:00 <deltab> (very( old
06:17:05 <deltab> *very*
06:17:28 <WildHalcyon> Oh, I see
06:17:29 <deltab> 60s or 70s
06:17:33 <WildHalcyon> wow
06:17:41 <WildHalcyon> they HAD chatterbots that far back?
06:17:45 <WildHalcyon> I figured 80's earliest..
06:17:52 <heatsink> They didn't call it that
06:18:09 <WildHalcyon> that's as surprising as learning that walrus is one of the oldest words in the english language
06:18:12 <deltab> 1966
06:18:39 <deltab> http://jerz.setonhill.edu/if/canon/eliza.htm
06:19:39 <WildHalcyon> fantastic!
06:23:53 <deltab> http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gxk/courses/g5aiai/002history/eliza.htm
06:24:26 <WildHalcyon> muahaha
06:25:03 <WildHalcyon> Anyhow, yes... a fungish-type language, supports functions and hopefully a lambda operator, but... how should I do that in 2D?
06:25:31 <heatsink> Will you allow a command to copy data from point A to point B?
06:26:02 <WildHalcyon> How so?
06:26:16 <heatsink> Then you can either bring the lambda to the data, or bring the data to the lambda
06:28:24 <WildHalcyon> I think I see what you're getting at, but Im not entirely sure...
06:30:17 <WildHalcyon> so, lets say that I have a function denoted at (x,y) and Im right now hanging out at (a,b), what would be the best way to head to (x,y), and having finished my business there, come back?
06:32:15 <heatsink> Well, if you have random access, the problem's solved. Just poke the data at (x,y), and the return location at (x+1,y) or something like that
06:33:09 <WildHalcyon> The language won't have random access so to speak
06:33:19 <heatsink> okay
06:33:44 <heatsink> So something has to move from (x,y) to (a,b) one cell at a time?
06:33:49 <WildHalcyon> The problem is, I want the language to support arbitrarily large fields, and I can't have an arbitrary goto command on something that can be larger than the biggest integer the language supports
06:34:22 <heatsink> what is a field?
06:34:24 <WildHalcyon> Not necessarily one cell at a time - in fact, Im supposing this with the hypothesis that the programmer has no idea where the function itself is located
06:34:35 <WildHalcyon> a two-dimensional programming 'field' (like in befunge)
06:34:41 <heatsink> ok
06:35:35 <WildHalcyon> The program itself might know where it is - I haven't really fleshed out these particular details yet
06:35:54 <WildHalcyon> I've been working on modularity issues, and string conventions
06:36:04 * heatsink takes another bite of lentil mushroom soup
06:37:10 * WildHalcyon is currently enjoying a chocolate chip cookie
06:38:15 <heatsink> Can a single datum (a cell, the stack contents, etc.) be arbitrarily big? Because then you could pack the lambda function into a single value, and then unpack it in-place... In fact, I've been wanting to do an esolang sort of like that
06:39:20 <WildHalcyon> Stack contents possibly, but an actual cell is limited to a 8-bit value
06:39:35 <heatsink> Well, my idea was an esolang where the program had to include code to expand itself into memory, starting from only one cell
06:40:01 <heatsink> So there's an option: packing & unpacking the lambda
06:41:01 <heatsink> You might be able to think of some way, other than addressing by grid location, of moving data to/from an arbitrary location... making a 'tunnel' of sorts
06:41:17 <WildHalcyon> Thats what I was thinking about, having a sort of 'wormhole' function
06:41:47 <WildHalcyon> basically, you would say "go to function x" and then the program would look up the location of function x, go to it, and at the end, return to where you were to begin with
06:42:33 <heatsink> that works
06:43:01 <heatsink> Have you worked out the details?
06:43:49 <WildHalcyon> not at all - I've been thinking about using lambda functions like false (http://wouter.fov120.com/false/) except creating a sort of function-writing syntax for making two-dimensional functions
06:45:36 * heatsink says in a Monty Python voice, "I can't read this!"
06:46:17 <WildHalcyon> what do you mean?
06:46:36 <heatsink> the false page...
06:47:16 <WildHalcyon> its confusing, or you can't go to it?
06:47:24 <heatsink> It's confusing
06:47:51 <heatsink> It's like they took all the alphabetic characters out of Perl
06:48:01 <heatsink> and added eszets
06:48:43 <WildHalcyon> well.. yes, the syntax is a bit wonky
06:48:48 <WildHalcyon> but when you'
06:48:57 <WildHalcyon> you're stuck with one-character commands, its easy to get limited
06:49:05 <heatsink> yea
06:50:37 <heatsink> hmm, the 2d function syntax is gonna look interesting
06:51:11 <WildHalcyon> Im sure that it will, but, it's going to hopefully be more readable than befunge
07:00:18 <WildHalcyon> I dont know, its not terribly important right now. Im sleepy. Time for bed
07:00:35 <heatsink> alright
07:00:45 <heatsink> goodnight wild halcyon
07:00:53 <WildHalcyon> good night sinker of heat
07:00:54 <heatsink> good wild halcyon nights
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05:10:06 <tonsofpcs> hi
05:10:09 <Toreun> hi
05:10:13 <tonsofpcs> dah
05:10:14 <tonsofpcs> you
05:10:27 <Toreun> oh no
05:10:36 <tonsofpcs> heh
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06:33:56 <calamari_> hi
07:09:39 <tonsofpcs> hi
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08:49:52 <lament> hi
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00:57:10 <calamari_> hi
02:40:35 <lament> hi
02:40:42 <lament> does linux run in brainfuck yet?
02:42:18 <Taaus> Well. Theoretically, I'm sure it does.
02:59:10 <calamari_> hmm..
02:59:50 <calamari_> it might be possible to modify the interrupt vector table if the bf array were positioned starting at low memory
03:00:41 <calamari_> but I'm not sure what that would accomplish, since you still couldn't cause interrupts
03:01:46 <calamari_> the only way I can think of is a custom bf interpreter that takes i/o and extends the functionaliy.. but then is it still bf?
05:13:46 <lament> no.
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05:13:58 <lament> but you can port bochs to bf
05:14:02 <lament> and run linux in bochs
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20:22:43 <calamari> hi
20:23:57 <fizzie> hi. how goes bfasm or the c compiler?
20:24:04 <fizzie> (see, there's interest!)
20:24:15 <calamari> bfasm is working and online :)
20:25:23 <calamari> the c compiler needs a lot of work.. might actually do a b compiler, as that is a lot more bf compatible
20:32:41 <fizzie> noticed the esolang email about it.
20:33:50 <calamari> cool
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02:18:53 <calamari> hi
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07:05:26 <WildHalcyon> I've had a song stuck in my head all week
07:05:38 <lament> "rape me"?
07:06:02 <WildHalcyon> Hmm, that would make a lot of sense... being in Seattle and all, but no
07:06:18 <WildHalcyon> Excellent guess
07:06:24 <WildHalcyon> its actually "Hey Ya"
07:08:10 <WildHalcyon> "My baby don't mess around because she loves me so and this I know for shoooooo'"
07:08:39 <WildHalcyon> it makes it hard to think really esoterically about constructing 2D lambda functions when you're wondering why love is the exception
07:11:06 <lament> how do 2d lambda functions work?
07:12:00 <WildHalcyon> like regular lambda functions in false - they're pushed onto the stack and executed like normal
07:12:21 <lament> i don't know false :(
07:12:41 <lament> altthough its creator used to come here for a while
07:13:42 <lament> (and never talk)
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07:22:10 <WildHalcyon_> sorry - got booted
07:22:24 <WildHalcyon_> and from what I can see lament, a lot of people on here come and don't talk
07:23:03 <lament> yes
07:23:06 <lament> let's ban them all!
07:23:32 <WildHalcyon_> hahaha... hmmm... "you're banned until you say something!"
07:25:05 <lament> good night, then!
07:30:48 <WildHalcyon_> goodnight lament!
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19:57:55 <calamari_> hi
19:58:15 <calamari_> I think I've finally decided what I want the "c" compiler to look like, at least initally
20:01:18 <calamari_> int, if, else, while, break, do, goto. () [] - ! ~ * / % + - >> << > < >= <= == != && || = (no pointers, only [] arrays)
20:01:27 <calamari_> should be easy to write that
20:02:27 <fizzie> no dynamic datastructures?
20:02:51 <calamari_> malloc would look something like: int mem; malloc(int cells) { mem[1] = mem[0]; mem[0] = mem[0] + bytes; return mem[1]; }
20:03:17 <calamari_> you can make linked lists, etc with just []
20:03:44 <fizzie> well yes, but they are fixed-size, usually.
20:04:42 <calamari_> usually, but c allows you to go past the end, or even use array syntax on something that isn't an array
20:05:18 <calamari_> should have been int malloc.. oops :)
20:06:09 <calamari_> the int mem; would need to be the last thing defined
20:06:36 <fizzie> you mean your C allows you to use array syntax on something that isn't an array? in traditional c a[b] needs to have either a or be to be a pointer.
20:07:07 <calamari_> not quite sure how to handle function variables yet.. they will be pushed and popped, but haven't decided where they go
20:07:49 <calamari_> fizzie: mm.. hadn't considered that, you're right, it's a little off there
20:07:55 <fizzie> (and who made the "byte" type signed in java?)
20:08:37 <calamari_> everything else is signed in java.. I guess they felt like it had to be
20:09:19 <fizzie> guess so. but now when you get a byte[] of something, if you cast an element of it to int all >0x80 values 0xnn get type-extended to 0xffffffnn.
20:09:35 <fizzie> er, >=0x80.
20:10:54 <fizzie> it is verily uncomfortable. I had a byte[] filled with of unsigned 16-bit integers (little-endian, but that doesn't really matter) and I needed to convert that to an int[] of their values.
20:10:58 <calamari_> not having unsigned types is pretty dumb.. I can't see how it would be that hard to add them
20:11:41 <fizzie> but I guess I should shut up about java, it's not a proper esoteric language.
20:11:53 <calamari_> hehe
20:13:12 <calamari_> I guess I'll have the same failing tho, because I don't feel like doing it right now :)
20:14:01 <calamari_> My problem is getting the initial version done.. once I get that, I'm good.. but if I make it too distant I never finish
20:15:57 <calamari_> unsigned actually scales a lot better than signed
20:16:41 <calamari_> with signed, you have to know where the negative numbers start.. is it 128, 32768, etc?
20:17:41 <calamari_> since BF cells can be 8 bit or larger, having everything unsigned seems to make more sense
20:18:07 <calamari_> at least until I care :)
20:25:43 <fizzie> mm.
20:32:27 <calamari_> hmm I should call it BC.. maybe appropriate?
20:33:51 <calamari_> anyhow.. afk to get started
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06:07:53 <calamari_> hi
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20:14:24 <calamari_> HELLO
20:14:35 <calamari_> eek.. bad caps lock setting
20:16:49 <calamari_> c seems a lot easier to tokenize than basic
20:18:03 <calamari_> either that or I'm just getting used to it
20:20:58 <calamari_> I'm probably going to add for and continue.. figured out a way to make them easier to do
20:22:37 <calamari_> anyhow.. bbl
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08:12:41 <WildHalcyon> Hey late-night esoteric people!
08:17:56 <deltab> morning here
08:19:12 <WildHalcyon> Oh, where is "here" ?
08:19:24 <deltab> UK
08:19:35 <WildHalcyon> Hmm, that makes it close to around 10 am then, right?
08:19:47 <deltab> 08:20
08:20:14 <WildHalcyon> oh, earlier than I thought
08:20:59 <WildHalcyon> So do you work with esoteric languages much deltab?
08:21:22 <deltab> work, no; play, sometimes :-)
08:22:49 <WildHalcyon> Well, I guess its hard to "work" with esoteric languages
08:23:15 <WildHalcyon> Im not entirely sure how many people have put down the ability to work with bf on their resume, but I imagine its probably less than 10
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15:04:12 <Keymaker> hello..
15:04:41 <fizzie> ehloo.
15:04:55 <Keymaker> hi
15:50:36 <Keymaker> hmm,, bye
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16:58:07 <calamari_> hi
17:02:08 <calamari_> I think I was wrong.. I can't get away with just [].. if I did that, I'd have to make regular variables return their address, which would mean to do a regular variable you'd have y[0]=x[0]+1 .. pretty lame.
17:02:51 <calamari_> y=x+1 would be like int *y=&x+1
17:03:06 <calamari_> or something like that
17:03:13 <calamari_> so I need &
17:03:22 <mtve> your assembler is very good. it's now possible to write tcpip in bf.
17:03:41 <calamari_> mtv: lol
17:03:57 <mtve> i wasn't joking :)
17:04:30 <calamari_> you have to be ;)
17:04:39 <mtve> there was small tcpip stack in php and it shouldn't be more than 64k of bf-asm code i think.
17:05:03 <mtve> actually someone could just rewrite that code in bf-asm
17:05:16 <calamari_> interesting
17:05:33 <calamari_> I don't know much about the details of tcp/ip
17:05:40 <mtve> http://www.sics.se/~adam/phpstack/
17:06:17 <fizzie> tcp/ip is simple if you don't want to get complex about it.
17:07:59 <calamari_> that's pretty neat
17:10:15 <calamari_> one thing bfasm is still missing is bit manipulation
17:10:52 <fizzie> there's all kinds of stuff like explicit congestion notification (RFC2884), syncookies, window scaling (RFC1323), Nagle's algorithm and loads of others if you want a funky tcp/ip stack.
17:11:11 <calamari_> I need a routine that only requires constant memory regardless of the size of the cells
17:12:24 <fizzie> I wonder how long it'll take before we see the first brainf*ck web server that talks something like SLIP into the input/output streams of brainf*ck.
17:18:50 <calamari_> in order to have a web server somehow it will need to access a modem or network card. Can standard i/o be redirected in *nix to allow that?
17:19:25 <calamari_> I see this guy just has it going over a serial cable
17:19:33 <mtve> sure, you can do it without any network at all.
17:20:28 <mtve> i guess it's possible over loopback on any sane unix.
17:21:08 <mtve> nope, i remember there was tap interface. there should be readme or something.
17:21:39 <mtve> tap exists on linux or *bsd, do you have any?
17:23:07 <calamari_> I have linux on another partition
17:24:51 <mtve> you can install *nix on any old 386 machine, work remotely and have a windows as a workstation.
17:26:11 <calamari_> oh yeah.. do you know of any cpu testing programs?
17:26:49 <mtve> cpu testing? your bf-asm compiling itself? :)
17:26:51 <calamari_> I have a system that crashes out when trying to load windows or linux.. works fine in dos
17:27:06 <calamari_> not sure if it's something with protected mode or what
17:27:23 <calamari_> ran a memory testing program and it found no problems
17:27:39 <mtve> does it hang or does it print something before death?
17:28:09 <calamari_> in the windows installer it gave various error messages
17:28:33 <mtve> most probably it
17:28:40 <calamari_> linux would give some kind of error (with the register dump, etc)
17:28:41 <mtve> 's broken
17:29:06 <calamari_> pretty weird that dos works, though
17:29:10 <calamari_> anyhow
17:29:14 <mtve> or totally incompatible. indeed it's unusable.
17:29:31 <calamari_> there are network drivers for dos
17:29:34 <calamari_> :)
17:30:39 <lament> hi
17:30:44 <calamari_> hi lament
17:31:50 <mtve> that stuff from Adam Dunkels works just like a charm in *nix and easy to debug. in dos and windows you will need to do something to terminate such a strange networking.
17:38:06 <mtve> maybe in win31 it would be easy with trumpet networking and a null-modem between two com-ports.
17:39:09 <calamari_> hmm, I didn't try installing win3.1.. that's a great idea
17:40:39 <mtve> sorry for distracting you from bf-c :) in win3.1 there was three mode afair, and it's possible to avoid protected mode with some config key.
17:40:58 <fizzie> or a command-line flag.
17:41:06 <fizzie> to disable the "386 Enhanced" mode.
17:41:13 <calamari_> are you sure about 3.1? I remember 3.0 could do it
17:41:20 <fizzie> I think 3.1 too.
17:41:56 <fizzie> because I have a feeling I ran 3.1 on a 386sx/16 with only 1M of memory, and the 386-enhanced mode needs at least 2M to work, so it ran on the non-enhanced mode by default.
17:42:03 <fizzie> of course it might've been 3.0 too.
17:42:33 <fizzie> can't run win32s on it in that mode, though.
17:43:22 <fizzie> and I think the backported ie5+ms-ppp/slip-dialer needs win32s. trumpet could work.
17:43:55 <mtve> trumper with netscape 1.0 is more than needed :)
17:43:55 <calamari_> I think I have trumpet around here somewhere on an old isp cd
17:44:20 <fizzie> mine was on an isp floppy, and I'd be surprised if it's not un-broken still.
17:45:38 <mtve> tcpman.exe 119K, netscape.exe 1.2M :)
17:46:10 <fizzie> I'm not sure if I had netscape during my win3.11 times.
17:46:24 <fizzie> there was a version of mosaic on the floppy.
17:47:00 <calamari_> hmm.. I think I discovered the problem
17:47:16 <calamari_> there is a bad cpu fan
17:47:30 <calamari_> or at least that's the current problem
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18:51:18 <calamari_> cpu fan changed.. trying knoppix
18:54:34 <calamari_> cool
18:54:41 <calamari_> (pun intended)
18:55:17 <mtve> :)
18:57:00 <calamari_> wow.. it's still booting.. I don't think knoppix was designed for a 450mhz cpu
18:57:26 <mtve> 450MHz is quite a few
18:58:08 <calamari_> ahhh, kde finally coming up
18:58:31 <calamari_> hmm.. actually not 450.. 333 .. remembered that wrong
18:59:05 <fizzie> yay, my email relay thingie works again. now to update some MX records.
19:09:09 <calamari_> bbl
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18:06:22 <tah> hi
18:12:05 <lament> hi.
18:12:45 <tah> Ah, someone alive. I found this channel from a log on the web while searching for Argh!
18:13:06 <mtve> argh
18:13:12 <lament> argh.
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18:56:31 <calamari_> hi
18:57:09 <tah> Hi calamari
18:57:34 * tah has to leave now, just a short visit before driving home from work (after the rain stops)
18:57:46 <tah> oh, still rains
18:57:55 <tah> (just not as much as before)
18:58:26 <calamari_> where do you live? It rained here last night
18:58:30 <calamari_> (arizona)
18:59:25 <tah> Osnabrueck, Germany
19:19:49 <tah> Anyone interested in a vim script for Argh!? Just completed the last bit with help from the #vim channel
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19:27:24 <mtve> vim script or argh? what does it do?
19:28:44 <tah> mtve: It sets some variables and changes cursor movement in replace mode: The cursor stays on the entered character, except for [hjklHJKL] for which it moves in the correct direction
19:29:24 <mtve> ah, so it should be useful for befunge as well? :)
19:29:54 <tah> mtve: Maybe, does befunge use hjkl, too?
19:30:58 <mtve> no, it doesn't. i see.
19:32:06 <tah> mtve: But of course this can be changed
19:37:56 <tah> mtve: I sent it to Sascha so he can include it in the next Argh! release
19:38:08 <mtve> good
19:39:00 * tah will leave now, it still rains, but not as much as before
19:39:17 <tah> Argh! uhm, I mean ... Bye!
19:39:32 <mtve> bye :)
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23:18:45 <calamari_> hi
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04:50:59 <calamari_> hi
04:51:08 <heatsink> hi squid
04:51:12 <heatsink> squid_
04:51:32 <calamari_> hows it going?
04:52:39 <heatsink> okay... no esolang in the pipeline for me now
04:52:44 <heatsink> what's up?
04:58:43 <calamari_> about to work on bfcc's expression parser.. I have it written, kind of (previous version).. so it shouldn't be that bad
04:58:56 <heatsink> brainfuck compiler collectoin?
04:59:09 <calamari_> bf c compiler
04:59:17 <heatsink> okkk
04:59:20 <heatsink> ok
04:59:45 <calamari_> I did bfasm, so bfcc isn't as hard now
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05:29:13 <calamari_> hi dbc
05:29:44 <calamari_> bbl
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08:23:25 <WildHalcyon> whoa nelly, its busy in here
08:28:20 <WildHalcyon> Im hungry, be back in a little minute
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12:34:53 <Keymaker> heyy
13:35:36 <mtve> hello
13:58:47 <Keymaker> hi
13:58:56 <Keymaker> (sorry for delay, i was away)
14:54:15 <Keymaker> hmmm, gotta go :(
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20:58:42 <calamari_> hi
20:59:19 <calamari_> been thinking about the c parsing and ran into a difficulty
21:00:32 <calamari_> parsing of = is right to left.. i.e. a = b[c] = d is really a = (b[c] = d), not (a = b[c]) = d
21:00:50 <mtve> yes
21:02:01 <calamari_> is there an easy way to deal with that (I'm using something similar to recursive descent, using a stack rather than recursive calls)
21:02:21 <calamari_> in other words I'm converting to rpn
21:04:32 <mtve> usually it's a recursive parser that returns tree of operations. then you build your code by walking the tree.
21:04:52 <calamari_> right, but it builds the wrong tree
21:05:02 <mtve> it's broken then :)
21:05:07 <calamari_> it does (a = b[c]) = d, which is wrong
21:05:34 <mtve> hard to help you with seeing the code (or at least pseudocode).
21:05:36 <calamari_> right, it's broken because it assumes everything is left to right
21:05:45 <calamari_> no, this is theoretical
21:06:23 <calamari_> I haven't written any code yet, still planning
21:06:35 <calamari_> I just know that it will not be right
21:07:24 <calamari_> the best I have come up with is to scan forward and add parenthesis
21:08:04 <calamari_> but that seems like a kludge
21:08:19 <mtve> search for some example code. the good one was kernighan and pike calculator afair.
21:08:48 <calamari_> doubtful that a calculator would involve the situation I'm describing
21:09:40 <calamari_> since in that case, the correct order is given by the person operating the calculator
21:09:42 <mtve> right, they use lex.
21:10:03 <Taaus> That really depends on the complexity of the calculator.
21:10:51 <mtve> anyway there is miriad of simple lectures about parsing, and lots of good books online.
21:11:17 <calamari_> most simple tutorials don't get into associativity of operators
21:11:41 <calamari_> the more complex ones assume use of flex & bison or such
21:12:44 <Taaus> Well, the calculator is an excellent example here. Exponentiation is a bothersome operation, associativity-wise.
21:12:47 <calamari_> so, adding the parenthesis is the best idea so far, I guess. bummer
21:13:07 <mtve> it's very easy, i guess you just havn't did it before.
21:13:16 <calamari_> what's very easy?
21:13:22 <calamari_> adding the parenthesis?
21:13:31 <Taaus> Parsing? :)
21:13:39 <mtve> parsing of left and right associative operators.
21:14:09 <calamari_> it doesn't seem easy to me
21:15:37 <calamari_> perhaps you can offer the easy solution?
21:18:37 <calamari_> a = b[c = d] = e
21:19:20 <calamari_> a = ( b[c = ( d ) ] = ( e ) )
21:20:14 <Taaus> Wow.
21:20:30 <calamari_> just thinking aloud
21:21:03 <calamari_> I'll probably just go ahead and add parenthesis.. I'll let someone add the "easy" solution later :)
21:22:26 <Taaus> This isn't entirely related, but it's a nifty way of parsing infix: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.lightweight/285
21:22:49 <Taaus> I'm mainly stating it so I can find it more quickly the next time :P
21:25:31 <mtve> just untested pseudocode:
21:25:38 <mtve> void read_lvl1(void) { read_lvl2(); if(token=='=') { eat_token(); read_lvl1(); op(PUSH POP=POP); } } // level 1 is right associative
21:25:38 <mtve> void read_lvl2(void) { read_lvl3(); while(token=='+') { eat_token(); read_lvl3(); op(PUSH POP+POP); } } // level 2 is left associative
21:26:58 <mtve> s/level/precedence/
21:34:34 <Taaus> What language are you writing the compiler in?
21:36:26 <calamari_> c
21:36:33 <calamari_> but I won't be using recursive calls
21:36:52 <Taaus> Not to preach, but why C?
21:37:09 <calamari_> so that I can compile the compiler
21:37:30 <Taaus> What for?
21:37:36 <Taaus> Oh, to BF:
21:37:38 <Taaus> :)
21:37:39 <calamari_> yeah
21:43:54 <calamari_> what I should do is stop trying to make this non-recursive thing work.. write it recursive then rescue it from recursion later
21:44:09 <calamari_> then I can use BNF
21:48:18 <calamari_> mtve: btw, thanks.. why does if make it right and while make it left?
21:48:46 <calamari_> oh wait
21:48:48 <mtve> note also read_lvl1 is self recursive
21:48:55 <calamari_> yeah just noticed that
21:49:37 <mtve> code looks pretty natural to me. same way as human parses such a code.
21:49:51 <mtve> such a grammar i mean.
21:50:35 <mtve> Taaus' link is interesting too.
21:51:14 <calamari_> hmm, I think I came up with a way to simulate private variables .. then I can use recursion
21:51:25 <mtve> it allows excellent things like changing operators and meaning of language on-the-fly while parsing.
21:52:07 <calamari_> that would be nifty.. because I'll want to change a[b] to *(&a+b)
21:52:17 <mtve> recursion can always be rewritten with static variables (basically the same way underlying processor works with memory)
21:52:50 <calamari_> yeah, I did that when working on the bf golf set problem
21:53:20 <calamari_> used a memory array to simulate the recursion
21:53:59 <calamari_> since all my variables are global, I didn't want to use recursion, but I think I can get around it
21:54:08 <mtve> recursion is harder for computers, its purpose is only to make life easier for a human :)
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22:36:53 <calamari> storm coming in.. gotta go
22:37:05 <calamari> thanks for your help and ideas
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01:58:27 <heatsink> wow
01:58:36 <heatsink> chili powder + salt really does make unripe mango palatable
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00:45:34 <calamari_> hi Toreun
00:45:41 <Toreun> hi calamari_
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12:00:34 <Keymaker> heu
12:00:36 <Keymaker> *hey
12:04:32 <fizzie> oy.
12:04:46 <fizzie> fizzie must go eat lunkch. away for a while now.
12:04:57 <Keymaker> ok
12:45:13 <Keymaker> Leaving the House Of Idle.
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21:56:59 <tonsofpcs> hey
21:57:48 <fizzie> oy.
21:58:03 <tonsofpcs> vey
21:58:30 <fizzie> the black knight moves for no man.
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22:07:19 <fizzie> the black knight always triumphs, you know.
22:09:06 <tonsofpcs> ya
22:09:11 <tonsofpcs> right then
22:09:30 <Lord_AnthraX> yes
22:09:40 <Lord_AnthraX> tons you know me?
22:10:08 <tonsofpcs> no, why would i?
22:10:43 <Lord_AnthraX> hahah
22:10:44 <Lord_AnthraX> you do
22:10:47 <Lord_AnthraX> and i know you
22:11:04 <tonsofpcs> lets see what the dice say
22:11:13 <Lord_AnthraX> bastard
22:11:54 <tonsofpcs> the dice say i might
22:12:03 <Lord_AnthraX> what was it
22:12:10 <fizzie> what does the magic 8-ball say?
22:12:10 <Lord_AnthraX> a twenty sided?
22:13:06 <fizzie> REPLY HAZY: TRY AGAIN
22:13:07 <tonsofpcs> ya, d20
22:13:12 <fizzie> says the magic 8-ball.
22:13:20 <Lord_AnthraX> bah
22:13:29 <Lord_AnthraX> fuck the 8-ball
22:13:32 <Lord_AnthraX> the d20 is god
22:13:43 <tonsofpcs> no
22:13:44 <fizzie> the d20 is quite spherical too.
22:13:46 <tonsofpcs> the d1000 is god
22:13:49 <Lord_AnthraX> lol
22:14:10 <Lord_AnthraX> now now, no die is sphereical
22:14:27 <fizzie> well, a d100 is pretty much spherical. a d1000 I haven't yet seen.
22:14:32 <Lord_AnthraX> ooo
22:14:38 <tonsofpcs> d100 is no where nere spherical
22:14:38 <Lord_AnthraX> there's a project
22:14:41 <tonsofpcs> its a golf ball
22:14:43 <Lord_AnthraX> gotta start work on it onw
22:14:44 <Lord_AnthraX> no
22:14:46 <Lord_AnthraX> w
22:14:51 <tonsofpcs> actually, a d300 is a golf bar
22:14:53 <tonsofpcs> *ball
22:15:01 <Lord_AnthraX> you've counted the dimples?
22:15:06 <tonsofpcs> no
22:15:08 <tonsofpcs> someone told me
22:15:17 <Lord_AnthraX> don't count
22:15:19 <Lord_AnthraX> start counting
22:15:30 <fizzie> and when you think of geometric shapes that spring to mind when you say "golf ball", I'm quite sure many would say "uh.. sphere?"
22:15:37 <Lord_AnthraX> indeed
22:15:41 <Lord_AnthraX> but a golf ball is a die
22:15:50 <Lord_AnthraX> a golf ball is an object with dimples
22:16:06 <tonsofpcs> a d100 has a sphere inside usually
22:16:23 <fizzie> a ball is a ball is a ball. and besides, what good is a die if it doesn't have sharp corners you can step on, like a d4.
22:16:35 <tonsofpcs> dn is spherical if n is the result of the limit of x to infinity of x
22:16:47 <tonsofpcs> what about a d5 or a d7?
22:16:50 <tonsofpcs> those are sharp too
22:16:59 <Lord_AnthraX> lol
22:17:08 <Lord_AnthraX> i like the way fizzie thinks
22:17:09 <tonsofpcs> what, they are
22:17:39 <tonsofpcs> roll a d%
22:17:45 <Lord_AnthraX> lol
22:18:52 <fizzie> I'd like a small, dice-size klein bottle I could throw. at least with a d1 you can be relatively certain what the outcome will be.
22:19:01 <Lord_AnthraX> lol
22:19:52 <Taaus> Just throw a perfect sphere. That's a d1 too. Or get a coin with two heads (or tails).
22:20:24 <tonsofpcs> no
22:20:34 <tonsofpcs> a perfect coin is a weighted d3
22:20:40 <Lord_AnthraX> heh
22:20:44 <tonsofpcs> its true
22:20:50 <Lord_AnthraX> anyone know any good laser disc's?
22:20:54 <tonsofpcs> ya
22:21:00 <tonsofpcs> fraggle rock on laser disc
22:21:02 <tonsofpcs> hehe
22:21:22 <fizzie> throwing a sphere sounds relatively boring when you could be throwing stranger topological things like a klein bottle around.
22:22:18 <fizzie> and I don't have a shpere.
22:22:59 <tonsofpcs> fizzie - think bouncy ball
22:23:27 <fizzie> there is no bouncy ball.
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22:23:50 <fizzie> only sphere here is my mirror ball thingie, and it gets.. er, deconstructed, if I mishandle it.
22:23:51 <Lord_AnthraX_Awa> bah
22:24:53 <fizzie> and I don't have glue to fix it with.
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22:30:58 <fizzie> hm, pretty strange, actually, that I completely lack a sphere. I only found a torus.
22:33:46 <Taaus> I have... A magic 8-ball. But it isn't entirely spherical.
22:34:27 <Taaus> I wonder what a super-egg counts as... A weighted d3, probably.
22:37:20 <fizzie> I have a.. thing. it could be considered spherical, but it's not exactly solid, it's.. eh, hard to describe. it has a core and then ~5cm long (coloured) pieces of rubber band sticking outside away from the core, so the rest shape of it is a sphere, sorta.
22:38:02 <fizzie> I'm probably not explaining this very well, but I lack my digital photography device so I can't elaborate easily.
22:38:36 <Taaus> Rubber band? Is it some sort of tensegrity sculpture?
22:42:32 <fizzie> nno, more like a stress relief toy.
22:42:47 <Taaus> How does it relieve stress? :)
22:42:52 <fizzie> the rubber band "hair" is quite dense/thick.
22:43:07 <fizzie> well, you can throw and catch it.
22:43:23 <Taaus> Oh! I know what it is then.
22:43:24 <fizzie> it used to have few loops in there too, but those are now broken.
22:43:50 <Taaus> Uh, that is, I've seen it before... I can't begin to describe its function, though.
22:44:13 <fizzie> I'm not sure about the stress relief thing, but "stressipallo" (literal translation: "stress ball" (er, probably guessable)) is what I've always called it.
22:45:01 <fizzie> it had a brand name too, but I've forgotten it.
22:45:26 <fizzie> once again google helped me! http://www.geriatric-resources.com/assets/images/Koosh.JPG
22:45:57 <fizzie> mine is differently coloured, and perhaps a bit bigger. (or maybe not. hard to estimate scale in that pic.)
22:46:17 <lament> supposedly those make great toys for people tripping on LSD
22:46:20 <fizzie> "The famous rubbery porcupine ball. Soft, safe and fun!"
22:46:39 <Taaus> Safe!? SAFE!??
22:46:51 <Taaus> You could put someone's eye out with that...
22:47:02 <lament> i don't think you could
22:47:06 <lament> unless you tried really, really hard
22:47:06 <fizzie> I wouldn't know. despite repeated queries, our student union people have only installed the soft-drink and candy vending machines, not drugs.
22:47:23 <fizzie> if you're so inclined, you can probably put someone's eye out with most things.
22:47:38 <lament> yes, but koosh balls would be near the bottom of the list
22:48:07 <fizzie> "you'll shoot your eye out, kid"
22:48:13 <lament> right next to cotton candy and porridge
22:51:47 <tonsofpcs> koosh balls are fun :)
22:52:20 <fizzie> but it's a sphere only in a vague sort of way.
22:52:24 <tonsofpcs> so are over-sized bb guns/rifles from movies :-p
22:52:32 <tonsofpcs> no, its not a sphere, its a koosh ball
22:52:48 <tonsofpcs> i got a pile of em somewhere
22:53:33 <fizzie> I have only this one.
22:53:33 <tonsofpcs> but i guess if you count the number of triangles made by 3 adjacent 'pins' or bands, you would be able to tell how many 'sides' it has
22:53:55 <fizzie> it's hard to determine how it landed since the spikes aren't rigid.
22:54:14 <tonsofpcs> the top should always have a flat-most triangle
22:54:25 <fizzie> mhm.
22:55:30 <fizzie> then I used to have a frisbee-like thing, only it was just a ring, not a disc, with a somewhat elastic outer edge, and then ~6cm of fabric inside the outer edge, but that broke. I believe it was called "whoosh" or "woosh" or something like that.
22:55:38 <tonsofpcs> i got one of those
22:55:48 <tonsofpcs> ya, the same company made them i think
22:55:55 <tonsofpcs> then i have one that doesn't have the fabric, it flys better
22:56:05 <tonsofpcs> but its hard, and will break windows easily
23:00:55 <fizzie> I think I'm going to see if I can find my koosh ball.
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23:02:58 <fizzie> it was under a pile of stuff, therefore it's a bit clumpy now.
23:04:42 <fizzie> maybe I should apologise to it.
23:12:43 <tonsofpcs> heh
23:12:58 <fizzie> it's a bit messy-looking now.
23:13:02 <fizzie> much like I.
23:21:48 <fizzie> hm.
23:22:26 <fizzie> there are some rather ambiguous choices when determining which is the "top" side of a thrown koosh ball.
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23:50:50 <lament> booo
23:54:41 <fizzie> I is tired and may fall asleep at any moment.
23:59:30 <lament> i can wake you up
23:59:40 <lament> if you give me an account on your box, with access to /dev/dsp
01:48:38 <tonsofpcs> lament: what is /dev/dsp?
01:49:30 <Toreun> tonsofpcs: the speaker
02:38:27 <tonsofpcs> o, ok
02:39:03 <tonsofpcs> thats just the pc speaker connector, or the default soundcard bus?
02:41:26 <lament> the latter
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03:38:39 <tonsofpcs> http://www.terranova.net/content/images/mp3police.jpg
03:38:46 <calamari_> hi
03:39:20 <tonsofpcs> hi calamari
03:42:35 <calamari_> hi tonsofpcs
04:02:10 <calamari_> bbl
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01:56:51 <lament> http://gallery.origami.free.fr/Auteurs/Japan/kawasaki/photos/bouquet/bouquet2max.jpg
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04:55:31 <calamari_> hi
04:55:54 <freakabcd> hi calamari_
04:56:05 <freakabcd> its quiet as usual here :)
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07:22:59 <lament> aeou
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18:09:31 <calamari_> hi
18:17:50 <lament> hi
18:17:54 <lament> good morning.
18:21:20 <calamari_> hi lament, how's t going?
18:21:26 <calamari_> it even :)
18:22:03 <lament> slowly, painfully and in the wrong direction.
18:23:53 <fizzie> what was lament doing to t?
18:24:56 <lament> to t?
18:26:53 <fizzie> "how's t going"?
18:27:30 <lament> oh
18:27:34 <lament> i didn't even notice that :(
18:29:42 <fizzie> ahhh right.
18:29:47 <fizzie> I didn't notice the correction.
18:30:00 <fizzie> thought you were doing some hacking related to T.
18:30:50 <lament> I don't; perhaps I should?
18:36:03 <fizzie> er, well. if you like? I don't know.
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19:07:11 <fizzie> mnfff.
19:07:15 <fizzie> our internet keeps breaking.
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22:21:18 <calamari_> I was noticing that conditional statements can be somewhat simulated using integer division
22:21:30 <calamari_> I haven't figured out all the details yet
22:21:52 <calamari_> in case you were wondering about my #math question :)
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20:26:22 <calamari_> HI
20:26:51 <calamari_> figured out the conditional thing somewhat
20:27:46 <calamari_> assuming integers >= 0, if A=0 then B=6 else B=0
20:27:47 <calamari_> can be rewritten B = ((A + 2) \ (A + 1) - 1) * 6
20:35:24 <calamari_> BBL
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18:01:23 <lament> blahblahblah
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22:36:50 <Keymaker> morning
22:37:38 <lament> afternoon :)
22:37:42 <Keymaker> :)
22:41:46 <Keymaker> hmm, judging by the logs i haven't missed anything wonderful on these days i haven't visited..
22:58:04 <lament> yeah
22:58:23 <lament> the conversation, thinly spread over days and weeks, consists mostly of calamari_ saying "hi"
22:59:18 <calamari_> hi
22:59:20 <calamari_> ;)
23:11:51 <Keymaker> :)
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00:43:09 <Keymaker> rrrrr
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01:40:45 <Keymaker> hmmm, i'll go (3:39 am)..
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14:25:41 <nd_> <script>alert("ho")</script>
14:25:54 <nd_> haha
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19:24:54 <Keymaker> evening
19:25:43 <Keymaker> grh, gotta go :)
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14:33:29 <Keymaker> hi
15:07:13 <mtve> silent hello is always assumed, in case you wait for reply :)
15:07:20 <Keymaker> heh
15:25:55 <fizzie> yeah, in irc pronunciation the 'hello' is silent.
15:26:02 <fizzie> so I'll just say: .
15:59:12 <Keymaker> hmm
15:59:38 <Keymaker> good night, this made me sleepy (who cares it's 18:00...)
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00:10:49 <calamari_> hi
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21:23:26 <Keymaker> hmmhmmhmmm hey
21:25:07 <fizzie> ey.
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21:28:46 <Keymaker> grr computer crash
21:28:58 <fizzie> computars often is borken.
21:29:09 <Keymaker> i see
21:44:17 <Keymaker> anyone doing anything cool?
21:45:13 <fizzie> me at least am not.
21:45:21 <Keymaker> i see
21:45:45 <Keymaker> too bad i'm bot either
21:45:56 <Keymaker> *not
21:46:11 <fizzie> I _should_ be fixing this symbianized pitch detection stuff for tomorrow since my vacation starts the day after tomorrow, but my eyes the hurt are.
21:46:30 <Keymaker> :)
21:46:40 <Keymaker> what you're going to do on the vacation?
21:46:54 <Keymaker> stay on computer and program? ;)
21:47:16 <fizzie> well, I _would_, but mother has her 50th birthday, she asked me to go to prague with her for a week.
21:47:27 <fizzie> and then there's assembly04 next weekend.
21:47:33 <Keymaker> i see
21:47:41 <Keymaker> going there?
21:47:48 <fizzie> I guess I have to.
21:47:58 <Keymaker> bad luc :(
21:48:01 <Keymaker> *luck
21:48:12 <fizzie> mm. well, there are few interesting people to meet there usually.
21:48:22 <Keymaker> i see
21:48:32 <Keymaker> i haven't ever been there
21:49:35 <fizzie> you haven't missed that much. mostly it's just an excuse to stay awake few days and then revel in the fuzziness of the saturday-sunday part.
21:49:49 <Keymaker> yeah
21:50:23 <Keymaker> i hate quake(s), counter-strike and half-life, and i couldn't go anything nice to demo scene either..
21:51:21 <Keymaker> *go = do
21:51:52 <lament> http://fury.com/images/weblog/google_circa_1960.jpg
21:52:13 <fizzie> I was supposed to write a symbianos z80-device emulator so that a friend could participate in the 'mobile demo' category, since they've banned calculators now.
21:52:26 <Keymaker> :)
21:52:58 <Keymaker> i see
21:53:22 <fizzie> but seems I ran out of time.
21:53:26 <Keymaker> :(
21:53:33 <fizzie> I wonder where I could find a terminal.
21:54:18 <fizzie> I took a nice vt510 to asm2001, and it worked just fine, but, er, it, uh, well.. caught fire somewhere during year 2002.
21:54:30 <Keymaker> :O
21:54:37 <fizzie> maybe I should've cleaned all the dust inside it.
21:54:45 <Keymaker> yeah
21:55:13 <Keymaker> just to ask, i didn't know there was possible to use calculators also in that demo scene
21:55:20 <Keymaker> what kind of things was made with them?
21:55:26 <fizzie> er, well..
21:55:38 <fizzie> nothing too fancy, I'm afraid. but the ti86 is a neat platform.
21:55:46 <Keymaker> i see
21:56:26 <fizzie> a 128x64 black-and-white lcd (so slow that you can do greyscale-by-flicker) and a.. was it a 6MHz z80?
21:56:30 <fizzie> can't recall.
21:56:50 <fizzie> 2003 mobile demo compo winner was a ti-86 production by this friend of mine.
21:57:45 <Keymaker> wow
21:58:00 <Keymaker> very nice
21:58:10 <fizzie> http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=10525
22:00:04 <Keymaker> nice looking stuff there
22:01:41 <fizzie> it featured sound, which is quite nice from a system without any hardware support for sound. :p
22:01:54 <Keymaker> :)
22:01:59 <Keymaker> how that was done?
22:02:40 <fizzie> there's a "link port" for data transfer.
22:02:51 <Keymaker> ah
22:02:57 <fizzie> you can do a constant-amplitude square wave by twiddling the state.
22:03:14 <Keymaker> :)
22:04:57 <Keymaker> maybe i should try to program something nice to my ti-86
22:05:16 <Keymaker> (though, first i should probably know some assembler)
22:05:17 <fizzie> there's a nice befunge interpreter for ti-86.
22:05:38 <Keymaker> i see, i've noticed that somewhere but of course not tried
22:05:39 <fizzie> and the z80 instruction set at least marginally makes sense.
22:05:55 <Keymaker> good
22:06:15 <fizzie> it's even small enough for a human to be able to somewhat remember most of it, unlike x86.
22:06:30 <Keymaker> :)
22:08:09 <fizzie> the befunge interpreter is somewhere at quux.befunge.org and you can blame mooz for it.
22:08:25 <Keymaker> ok
22:15:43 <fizzie> found a floppy from my first isp :)
22:15:48 <Keymaker> :)
22:15:54 <fizzie> dated 1994.
22:15:56 <Keymaker> i see
22:16:10 <fizzie> heh, it's been ten years already. where does the time go?
22:16:20 <Keymaker> dunno.. :\
22:16:35 <Keymaker> but fast it goes anyway.
22:16:48 <Keymaker> iirc i visited the internet first time that year
22:16:55 <Keymaker> not home though
22:17:29 <Keymaker> internet has probably changed a lot from those times..
22:17:39 <Keymaker> filled with spam and ads now :(
22:18:00 <fizzie> mmm.
22:18:55 <fizzie> I think I telnet'd to freenet and had my first IRC experience pretty soon after we got 'personal eunet' at home. and since I'm 21 now, I think after a year I can say I've irc'd (wasted?) half of my life.
22:19:03 <fizzie> that's probably not good.
22:19:16 <Keymaker> hehe :)
22:20:06 <Keymaker> this irc is afterall very good idea, though i don't spend much time in it and started to use it ~year ago :\
22:21:07 <fizzie> you wouldn't say 'good idea' if you saw the people I.. "discuss" with, here. :p
22:21:55 <Keymaker> heh
22:24:03 <Keymaker> but well, i think i'll hit the bed now (to sleep)
22:24:15 <Keymaker> been nice to chat a bit
22:24:21 <Keymaker> good night
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22:26:14 <fizzie> bught.
22:26:23 <fizzie> (that's a typoed 'night'.)
22:33:19 <lament> you meant "people" you "discuss" with
22:34:56 <fizzie> yes.
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22:46:13 <calamari_> hi Toreun
22:46:19 <Toreun> hi calamari_
22:47:13 <Toreun> how are you?
22:47:22 <calamari_> fine, you?
22:47:26 <Toreun> alright, alright.
22:52:01 <Toreun> are you familiar with the game of nomic at all?
22:52:54 <Taaus> I am :)
22:52:59 <lament> I am
22:53:30 <lament> it's probably the most often abandoned game ever, though.
22:53:43 <Toreun> that it is, I'm sure
22:53:44 <lament> I haven't played it; but apparently it just isn't fun to play.
22:53:45 <Toreun> except Agora
22:53:46 <Taaus> Not true. Just look at the blognomic crowd.
22:53:54 <Toreun> It's actually a lot of fun
22:53:57 <Toreun> well, in my opinion
22:54:03 <lament> once the novelty wears off, the games always get abandoned
22:54:12 <lament> at least all the ones i've ever seen on the net
22:54:24 <Toreun> Most games do get abandoned - probably because of the difficulty of maintaining them, I would think
22:54:34 <Taaus> Check out http://blognomic.blogspot.com
22:54:55 <Taaus> They've done at least ten games.
22:55:22 <lament> freaks.
22:55:46 <Toreun> I'd say the key for a fun game of nomic is finding a game that has the same sort of mindset that you want in a game
22:56:20 <lament> basic nomic is just too weird and complicated, anyway.
22:56:31 <lament> although there're variations with two or so starting rules.
22:56:42 <lament> or one.
22:56:50 <Toreun> Each game generally has a different starting ruleset
22:57:19 <Toreun> what I've been thinking about for awhile is making a formalized nomic
22:57:33 <Toreun> this was theorized in an AgoraNomic Thesis awhile back
22:57:34 <lament> euhm
22:57:37 <lament> that won't work!
22:57:41 <Toreun> it would
22:57:45 <lament> no!
22:58:04 <lament> ok, i guess it would
22:58:08 <Toreun> sure - you can't obviously have things in plaintext english
22:58:11 <lament> turing-complete rules
22:58:20 <lament> it would, but to a point
22:58:37 <Toreun> it'd be easiest if you had a pseudo-code like low level rules system
22:58:43 <Toreun> for instance, where everything is an object
22:58:50 <Toreun> and signals are sent between objects
22:59:00 <Toreun> and the rules just test for conditions and send signals
22:59:09 <lament> and here i was thinking that nomic can't possibly be less fun!
22:59:15 <Toreun> :-P
22:59:33 <Toreun> well, I would want to do this just to prove it could be done
23:01:24 <Toreun> I don't think this implementation would be all that much fun, myself. I tried making up a starting ruleset, and it was tedious.
23:01:54 <Toreun> Even making a simple voting system must be elaborately and explicitly described
23:02:54 <lament> hehe
23:03:43 <Toreun> the pros to this would be good though - no need for judgements and whatnot
23:04:01 <Toreun> so it's very easy to maintain
23:04:02 <lament> Sacrificing the fun is not an option.
23:05:20 <Toreun> I thought it wasn't fun to begin with?
23:05:39 <Toreun> *g*
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21:51:28 <Keymaker> hello
22:37:49 <Keymaker> space invaders rule!!
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