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02:49:44 <GregorR> (Unless your monitor is sideways or something)
02:50:23 <GregorR> So the question is, is up relative to you or to the center of gravity?
02:50:36 <GregorR> I would put forth that it is relative only to the center of gravity, and hence up is still ^ this way ^ :P
02:50:54 <Wildhalcyon> I always thought it should be considered up relative to the axis of the solar system
02:51:54 <GregorR> Well, that would be convenient for extraterrestrial travellers, but not particularly useful for us terrestrials.
02:52:01 <Wildhalcyon> barring the earth's tilt, it's fairly north
02:52:50 <Wildhalcyon> Anyhow, regardless of what direction up is, is there anything in your life that's pointing that way?
02:53:07 <GregorR> I'm still preparing for DirectNet 1.0.0.
02:53:27 <GregorR> Unforunately, I have clearly given too much regards to InferiOS, as I'm only waiting on some fixes for it :P
02:54:11 <GregorR> http://directnet.sf.net/ | #directnet | It's a serverless, mesh network instant messaging system.
02:54:46 <GregorR> Means Microsoft Windows :)
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03:06:25 <ihope> I am now working on an article for "EsoS"...
03:09:10 <ihope> It's still a basic thing, though, just pretty much a giant replacement of one instruction with another...
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03:13:37 <ihope> The input instruction now makes one of eight API call thingers.
03:17:08 <ihope> Well, I have a feeling something bad's gonna happen if I don't leave now. Bye.
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06:36:25 <Arrogant> Aug 11 23:59:06 <raccoon> i am. i see it in this screen. my god! i'm not running MS-DOS! that program was too complicated even for genious
06:37:08 <GregorR> What is (s)he referring to?
06:38:37 <Arrogant> All you need to know is raccoon is retarded.
06:38:59 <GregorR> I'm in the midst of releasing DirectNet Beta0.7! It's /exciting/!
06:39:46 <GregorR> It's amazing that I can mention that every day for the last three days and still every time I mention it people go "Huh? What's DirectNet?"
06:40:02 <GregorR> http://directnet.sourceforge.net/ | #directnet | It's a serverless, mesh network instant messaging system.
06:51:10 <Arrogant> I think I will wait for 0.7 btw
07:20:07 <GregorR> Unfortunately, I just found two seperate issues that independently cause it not to build on MingW32 or Mac OS X >:(
07:27:20 <GregorR> I got it working on Mac OS X now (I think)
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10:04:23 <Keymaker> (note to everyone: i just updated ibfc page with a missing detail; the divisor is never larger than the dividend in this competition)
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13:29:52 <jix> moin Keymaker
13:30:04 <Keymaker> i was just going to ask is anybody out there..
13:30:32 <Keymaker> hmh. nobody has replied in bf golf forum topic..
13:31:34 <jix> my 16bit sub is broken
13:34:00 <Keymaker> the dividing part will be the hardest, for me
13:35:05 <jix> np: Ensiferum - Slayer Of Light [ Iron ]
13:36:10 <jix> (melodic death metal)
13:46:48 <jix> np: Ensiferum - Lai Lai Hei [ Iron ]
13:47:04 <jix> i didn't press that key
13:57:50 <jix> ok i have an idea how to do 16 bit MUL
13:58:38 <Keymaker> good for you.. i'm currently working on the same thing :p
13:58:47 <Keymaker> but you're 1000x more intelligent
14:00:14 <jix> i have to go in 20 mins
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16:40:50 * Wildhalcyon just found out one of his books is "Not for sale in North America" ... wonders how he has a copy.
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19:23:46 <WildHalcyon> I think a nice bf robotfindskitten would be a worthy task for an esolang enthusiast
21:30:34 <GregorR> I think a nice BF OSCAR server would be a wrothy task for an esolang enthusiast :P
21:31:14 <GregorR> A wrothy task, mind you. Not necessarily a worthy one.
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02:25:36 <Gs30ng> Is there any more 'udageoid' except for Glypho and Trigger?
02:26:25 <Gs30ng> Well I haven't expected any 'udageoid' because I thought it's not that notable idea
02:26:46 <Gs30ng> but well, it is, apparently
02:27:00 <Gs30ng> I also considered about the way of Glypho
02:50:29 <Gs30ng> anyway Glypho exists now, seems like it's made when i was absent, i'm shocked
02:50:46 <Gs30ng> Wildhalcyon made a great work i think
03:02:26 <Gs30ng> right now i'm just writing down v0.2 spec of udage
03:02:34 <Gs30ng> what do you think of this language GregorR
03:05:40 <Gs30ng> well i mean what do you think of v0.1 udage
03:06:25 <Gs30ng> (english version of v0.2 spec is unavailable for a couple of minutes, i'm just working on it)
03:16:31 <GregorR> I like it, but I haven't had enough time to really do anything in it ... I've been busy in the past few weeks.
03:17:30 <Gs30ng> i've been too. i'm preparing an exam which truly kills me
03:18:21 <Gs30ng> now i'm just taking a break and devoting it to complete the spec... :)
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04:36:01 <tokigun> now i'm working on crc32 checksum in befunge
04:36:33 <Gs30ng> i'm working on new udage spec in english
05:13:33 <Gs30ng> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Udage
05:13:39 <Gs30ng> this is as far as i can do
05:14:40 <Gs30ng> new specification is now on there... if somebody's interested, check out
05:15:15 <Gs30ng> this time it seems to be turing complete... but i'm not sure
05:18:50 <Gs30ng> freak NANDN1 operation is gone and some new concepts from this channel are accepted
05:21:01 <Gs30ng> i'm so exhausted and so satisfied... except for poor english translation of stuffs. corrections are totally welcomed
05:30:00 * GregorR puts on his "official broken English to correct English translator" hat.
05:31:13 <Gs30ng> oh, udage website(containing full spec) is also wikiwiki
05:31:18 <Gs30ng> feel free to correct it too
05:31:46 <GregorR> Aha, that means I can nitpick with no victim :)
05:33:17 <Gs30ng> yeap, nobody's gonna realize it ever nitpicked :)
05:45:20 * GregorR puts his stamp of grammatic approval on it.
05:45:27 <GregorR> It wasn't too bad, just a few "the"s and such *shrugs*
05:46:01 <Gs30ng> i am the very victim of THE Disease
05:46:38 <Gs30ng> it appears that who spend long time on coding in Malbolge cannot use THE in right way
05:47:38 <Gs30ng> first time i heard it i thought it's no more but ridiculous, but nowadays i feel like i really write some Malbolge code in my dream...
05:57:18 <GregorR> For example, when you said "cannot use THE in right way" you should have said "cannot use THE in /the/ right way"
05:58:36 <Gs30ng> i see.. well that's a difficult point for Asian
06:00:01 <Gs30ng> even i sometimes correct some the-related mistakes of my friends, but now i feel like... they were right but i told them wrong way and made more victims of the disease...
06:00:34 <Gs30ng> damn i'd rather use babelfish
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06:53:21 <Gs30ng> my friends are asking me about the spec
06:54:04 <Gs30ng> i wonder if there's something confusing in spec
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16:05:57 <Keymaker> grhh.. writing a brainfuck program goes something like this for me: 1. write the program 2. notice that it doesn't work 3. realize some stuff that could've done other way 4. don't bother finding the bug, start writing the program again with more care
16:16:15 <jix> Keymaker: haha.. same here
16:24:42 <Keymaker> and often the errors are so unnoticeable
16:24:58 <Keymaker> like moving one cell less than supposed or something like that
16:25:23 <Keymaker> there can be often strange effects and things that look working but don't work with certain input or such
16:25:42 <Keymaker> (because of an error somewhere)
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16:41:59 <[HU]NoOnE> I was thinking about entering a brainfuck golf contest, do I have any chance as a newbie?
16:42:41 <jix> which contest?
16:43:03 <[HU]NoOnE> I just want to ask you about all this
16:43:24 <jix> there is only one brainfuck contest running i know of
16:43:39 <jix> and it's a difficult one...
16:44:24 <[HU]NoOnE> oh, does it have some kind of homepage?
16:44:53 <jix> ask Keymaker
16:45:15 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/ibfc.html
16:45:29 <Gs30ng> Keymaker, i've just completed the new spec of udage
16:45:56 <Gs30ng> you can check out esolang wiki
16:46:45 <Keymaker> noone: nice to see more brainfuckers
16:46:51 <[HU]NoOnE> I don't see it exactly, do we use 8-bit cells?
16:47:18 <jix> afaik 8-bit wrapping cells
16:47:34 <jix> NONwrapping?
16:47:51 <Keymaker> "One-byte non-wrapping memory cells, non-wrapping memory array."
16:48:04 <Keymaker> (there's said 8-bit as well, btw)
16:48:08 <jix> i can trash all my code :(
16:48:24 <jix> byte !=> 8bit
16:48:53 <[HU]NoOnE> whoops, didn't notice it, I was looking for 8 or 16
16:49:04 <jix> there are bytes that have a different size
16:49:20 <Keymaker> oh, i thought byte meant always 8 bits
16:49:44 <jix> what does happen if i decrement a zero byte?
16:50:17 <jix> than i'm not going to join the comp... all BF algorithms i know are for wrapping cells
16:51:25 <Keymaker> if you increase cell with value 255, it can not go to 0
16:51:31 <jix> 255++ => error 0-- => error
16:51:43 <Keymaker> and same with decreasing, if cell is 0, it won't go to 255 if you decrease it
16:52:25 <Keymaker> and btw, noone: it is not part of brainfuck golf!
16:52:34 <Keymaker> (you probably thought so because it was in bf golf forum)
16:52:53 <[HU]NoOnE> so bf golf is not a kind of contest, but a row of contests?
16:52:54 <Keymaker> i'm just using brainfuck golf forums, because i haven't bothered making own brainfuck forums
16:53:08 <Keymaker> but i have never ran any bf golfs
16:53:16 <Keymaker> i'm just using their forum since nobody cares ;)
16:53:49 <Keymaker> btw, how did you end up to bfgolf forums?
16:54:47 <[HU]NoOnE> I was looking around (I think "esoteric languages" in google), then I found this channel
16:54:57 <[HU]NoOnE> where I saw where the logs can be found
16:56:31 <Keymaker> btw, have you programmed anything with brainfuck yet?
16:57:39 <[HU]NoOnE> some small excercises, like counting from 0-255 in a 16-bit one (something like BFDev)
16:58:12 <Keymaker> then i can pretty much say this competition is impossible for you
16:58:39 <Keymaker> i doubt even i get my entry done..
16:59:14 <[HU]NoOnE> whoops... Then even a correct, non-optimal program is good to have?
16:59:39 <Keymaker> yeah, one can have non-optimal program in this competition
16:59:48 <[HU]NoOnE> well, a program that works, but is slow and big...
16:59:56 <Keymaker> but one must not make it with any brainfuck code generator such as bf-basic..
17:01:09 <Keymaker> tokigun: really interesting project!
17:01:58 <tokigun> Keymaker: code is complete now, but i have to make it smaller
17:02:15 <tokigun> http://tokigun.dnip.net/.local/work/Works/esolang/befunge/crc32/code-original.txt
17:02:42 <tokigun> i tried to make it smaller but it doesn't work.
17:02:55 <Keymaker> optimizing befunge can be rather hard
17:03:50 <Keymaker> i'll try to read it a bit.. :)
17:04:08 <tokigun> http://tokigun.dnip.net/.local/work/Works/esolang/befunge/crc32/design.txt
17:04:26 <tokigun> before writing it, i wrote this pseudo-code to check algorithm
17:05:04 <Keymaker> yeah, that can be very very useful
17:06:07 <tokigun> in funge-98, when EOF, "~" works as "r".
17:06:27 <tokigun> buf in befunge-93, when EOF "~" is undefined behavior
17:07:16 <tokigun> i checked several befunge-93 interpreters, and found most of them uses fgetc(stdin) or getchar() to implement "~"
17:07:48 <Keymaker> do they leave the value unmodified?
17:08:27 <tokigun> EOF is macro constant in C
17:09:04 <tokigun> at least, it has to be less than 0
17:09:26 <tokigun> so i have to write two codes to process EOF
17:09:43 <tokigun> (one for funge-98, and one for befunge-93 with fgetc)
17:11:18 <tokigun> Keymaker: have you tested it?
17:11:35 <Keymaker> i don't have interpreter on this computer and too lazy to get one
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17:48:50 <Gs30ng> finally you are here WildHalcyon
17:49:20 <Gs30ng> i am so fascinated about glypho
17:49:41 <WildHalcyon> I apologize for not having a basic interpreter ready yet. It's been a bad fortnight
17:49:54 <Gs30ng> and i've completed new spec of udage
17:50:25 <WildHalcyon> I took a look at it. It looks nice. Resembles huffman coding slightly.
17:50:46 <Gs30ng> Glypho could be better answer for symbol independentness
17:51:15 <Gs30ng> would you tell me more about huffman coding?
17:51:34 <Gs30ng> this time i tried to make udage turing complete, but i'm not sure
17:52:12 <WildHalcyon> Glypho is TREMENDOUSLY independent, which has some disadvantages as well. There's some ideas I had regarding how to make it better in that respect, but I like the way its turned out
17:53:19 <Gs30ng> actually i've considered about grouping several letters and checking the pattern of it
17:53:25 <WildHalcyon> Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huffman_coding for some huffman coding info.
17:53:32 <Gs30ng> i supposed 3 letter grouped parsing
17:54:09 <Gs30ng> but i just screwed up because it's kinda big deal, like it is no more 'udage'
17:55:43 <WildHalcyon> Ive got an extra instruction in glypho that I don't know what to do with :-(, mostly because the instruction I had in its place didnt seem to do anything
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18:01:11 <WildHalcyon_> sorry, I think you'll find that my computer is less than stable right now
18:01:18 <Gs30ng> i found that udage seems like a typo of usage
18:01:54 <WildHalcyon_> The words do differ by only a single letter. They convey entirely different sense of meanings however
18:02:14 <WildHalcyon_> udage sounds more like "sludge", which would be fitting for an esolang
18:02:48 <WildHalcyon_> sludge is viscous, like tar. Therefore, udage is like a tar... pit!
18:04:02 <Gs30ng> well even Google says "Did you mean usage?" when i try to search udage
18:05:11 <WildHalcyon_> Google is merely trying to confuse and disorient you.
18:06:12 <Gs30ng> i also work on a wiki named Usgae, which means joke or humor in Korean
18:06:45 <Gs30ng> so my friends ask what's wrong with me and the word 'usage'
18:09:06 <Gs30ng> there are 3 korean in this channel
18:09:38 <Gs30ng> i think 3 of us is all the esolang developer in entire korea :)
18:10:39 <Gs30ng> and well... maybe the fact that i'm purely korean makes my english suck :(
18:12:12 <Gs30ng> rest 2 korean's english is much better than mine
18:14:35 <Gs30ng> /----/\\/\\\-----//\\/\/-----//\//\\-----//\//\\-----//\////-----/\//\\-----/\\\\\-----/\/\///-----//\////-----///\\/\-----//\//\\-----//\\/\\-----/\\\\/-
18:15:50 <Gs30ng> tokigun, would you make him an interpreter that works on IRC?
18:20:11 <WildHalcyon_> Once I get the glypho interpreter finished, I need to work on my second "language"
18:20:51 <Gs30ng> you mean not a programming language?
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18:21:25 <WildHalcyon_> I mean it could be considered a progrtamming language, but not necessarily
18:22:48 <Keymaker> what could be considered as programming language?
18:24:36 <WildHalcyon_> Im trying to combine the interactivity of Forth with the fun IF-style programming of TRANSCRIPT
18:26:05 <WildHalcyon_> Its probably going to be object-oriented, with a verbal syntax similar to ORK
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18:27:05 <WildHalcyon_> but as the "player" you have an inventory, and "objects" have some specific properties
18:28:22 <kipple> Wildhalcyon: a suggestion for the last Glypho instruction: "Pop the 4 top elements and interpret the pattern as a Glypho instruction"
18:29:38 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon_, where does the name Glypho came from?
18:30:03 <kipple> Glyph means symbol, right? (or atleast something similar)
18:30:03 <WildHalcyon_> After I finish glypho and interactive TRANSCRIPT, Im going to start on my bestselling book series, starting with "Learn to program in Perl in 24 years!"
18:30:05 <Gs30ng> i should have read the spec more carefully, but because of my humble english... :)
18:30:27 <WildHalcyon_> exactly kip - since its composed of symbols, its glyph-oriented
18:31:21 <WildHalcyon_> Year 5 of the book will be "sell this book, then look for a used copy later this year on ebay. Start up again at year 6."
18:32:20 <kipple> you mean like lazy evaluation applied to writing?
18:33:59 <WildHalcyon_> more like lazy evaluation applied to all walks of life.
18:34:15 <Keymaker> "learn brainfuck in finite time"
18:35:01 <kipple> gotta go. just had to mention my glypho suggestion before I forget it...
18:35:04 <WildHalcyon_> followed later by "Eventually understand how to code in Befunge"
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18:35:10 <WildHalcyon_> Thank you very much Kipple, I think its a winner!
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18:40:28 <chips> Usage: ~ ڵ : ڵ带 մϴ
18:41:23 <Gs30ng> that's an irc bot of my friend
18:41:39 <Gs30ng> instruction ~udage interprets the udage code
18:42:12 <Gs30ng> but there's something wrong with printing messages... i should ask him. wait a second
18:44:41 <chips> Usage: ~udage {code}
18:45:31 <Gs30ng> ~udage /----/\\/\\\-----//\\/\/-----//\//\\-----//\//\\-----//\////-----/\//\\-----/\\\\\-----/\/\///-----//\////-----///\\/\-----//\//\\-----//\\/\\-----/\\\\/-
18:45:31 <chips> result: 'Hello, World!'
18:45:31 <chips> order:0 1 13 25 37 49 61 72 83 95 107 119 131 143
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18:56:25 <jix> wb [HU]NoOnE
19:37:46 <Gs30ng> i think we can just wrap it
19:37:58 <Keymaker> yes, but i don't use wrapping memory
19:39:00 <WildHalcyon_> but its nice if you have arbitrarily large integers
19:39:39 <Keymaker> although i should give a try at that kind of brainfuck implementation sometime
19:39:39 <Gs30ng> well i think we don't even need it
19:39:46 <Gs30ng> like, we have infinite long tape
19:40:05 <Gs30ng> then even the cells are all bit, there's no problem :)
19:40:55 <Keymaker> i just meant that i perhaps should just try once an implementation that uses for example long ints.. doing stuff with them is naturally a lot easier than with only bytes
19:41:10 <Keymaker> but probably i don't have time to try that kind of thing for a long time
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23:07:58 <ihope> I think I'll go design the most comfusing game in the world now.
23:09:11 <ihope> Here's a denial-of-service IRP virus: Goodbye everyone!
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00:08:32 <ihope> I'm making an esogame.
00:11:00 <ihope> It's called Felidae, off the famous cat program. The first "real" program you encounter in the game is a minimalistic programming interface, which is essentially a cat program.
00:15:15 <ihope> Okay, here's the program: [[-],[>],]+[,<+][-]
00:21:03 <ihope> Hmm, no, that wouldn't work...
00:29:21 <ihope> Aha. The program is [,+,]
00:34:27 <ihope> ...You know, it's oddish that there are as many people here as there are, yet not many are talking.
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00:58:23 <Gs30ng> but not oddish in my opinion
00:59:12 <Gs30ng> every server/channel that i am in is so quiet although there are many people
00:59:26 <Gs30ng> Erm.. well maybe i misread him/her
00:59:55 <Gs30ng> i don't really get what does (s)he mean with 'there' and 'here'
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02:55:32 * WildHalcyon thinks that the channel should have a nautical theme for the day
03:24:21 <Gs30ng> is today some nautical-related day in US or somewhere?
03:26:32 <WildHalcyon> not that I know of. Just felt like saying Ahoy
03:30:05 <Gs30ng> here's a dirty python code that helps you make text-printing udage code: http://gs30ng.exca.net/tempcode/genudage.py
03:34:23 <Gs30ng> and you can test the code with IRC bot Chips, which can handle BV Toggling & Printing.
03:34:27 <Gs30ng> ~udage +~~~~+-+--++~~~~~++----+~~~~~++-++-+~~~~~+++----~~~~~++-++--~~~~~++--+-+~~~~~+-----~~~~~+----++~~~~~++-++++~~~~~++--+--~~~~~++--+-+~
03:34:28 <chips> result: 'Sample Code'
03:34:28 <chips> order: 0 1 13 25 37 49 61 73 84 96 108 120
03:34:50 <Gs30ng> ~udage +~~~~+--+---~~~~~++--+-+~~~~~++-++--~~~~~++-++--~~~~~++-++++~~~~~+-++--~~~~~+-----~~~~~+-+-+++~~~~~++-++++~~~~~+++--+-~~~~~++-++--~~~~~++--+--~~~~~+----+~
03:34:51 <chips> result: 'Hello, World!'
03:34:51 <chips> order: 0 1 13 25 37 49 61 72 83 95 107 119 131 143
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06:53:07 <GregorR> That was much longer than I thought XD
06:57:10 <nooga> haaa tokigun, please finish your SADOL interpreter :D!
06:57:32 <GregorR> It took me 15 min to respond to your "hi" :P
06:59:05 <nooga> damnit, got to go :/
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07:33:44 <lament> ~udage once upon a tiiiiime
07:33:45 <chips> order: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 18 19
07:37:17 <Gs30ng> afaik, it only works on BV toggling and Printing... you can't change PV with that bot
07:37:51 <GregorR> Oh wait, I think I'm confused, four is output, isn't it ...
07:38:09 <GregorR> Or, four = confuse chips :P
07:38:47 <Gs30ng> seeems chips is down because of some bugs :(
07:39:12 <GregorR> I would say "sorry", but instead I'll say "MUAHAHAH! I HAVE DEFEATED CHIPS!!!"
07:39:21 <Gs30ng> i should ask noricube to fix chips
07:40:37 <lament> anybody know of any esolangs available for the Palm?
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07:51:34 <Gs30ng> here's an alternative bot, with my own codes, i'm not sure it will work well or not...
07:51:50 <Gs30ng> GggggGrrrGGGgggggGGGrrGrgggggGGrrGrGgggggGGrrGGGgggggGGrGGGGgggggGGGrrGrgggggGrGrrGrg udage!
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07:53:17 * GregorR is .... THE UDAGE KILLERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
07:53:25 <Gs30ng> GregorR the qualified bot slayer
07:54:12 <Gs30ng> i should look up what's wrong with interpreter module
07:55:34 <Gs30ng> ah, that's a problem of unicode charset... hmm, annoying...
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07:58:46 <Gs30ng> this time the code should work
07:59:26 <Gs30ng> esssseoooeoessssseeeooeessssseeoeeeessssseeeoeoossssseeooeoessssseeeooeossssseeoeooessssseeoooeessssseooooes udage!
07:59:38 <Gs30ng> no problem with printing ascii characters...
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08:00:19 <Gs30ng> ugggguuddduduuuuduuddggggguduudduduuududuuggggguuddduuuduuududdg udage!
08:00:32 <Gs30ng> and also work on printing korean
08:01:15 <Gs30ng> now show us that magical bot-slaying code, GregorR
08:03:16 <Gs30ng> is that character right you intended?
08:03:28 <GregorR> I don't quite remember where ASCII lies in binary :P
08:04:07 <GregorR> CEFGHIAAAABCDEFGHIA udage!
08:04:51 <GregorR> Oh wait, do I need both unicode chars ...
08:04:59 <GregorR> CEFGHIAAAABBBBBBBBBCDEFGHIA udage!
08:17:01 <chips> command timed out!
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08:35:11 <Gs30ng> i added a small debup tip on it
08:35:15 <GS01NG> Udages and Cells that are 1: []
08:35:15 <GS01NG> Nonzero Pointer Values: {'B': 2}
08:35:40 <GS01NG> Udages and Cells that are 1: ['C']
08:35:40 <GS01NG> Nonzero Pointer Values: {'B': 1}
08:36:05 <Gs30ng> oops... the interpreter does not initialize itself...
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15:58:02 <nooga> GregorR: you'll respond for 15 min again? :)
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17:06:57 <Gs30ng> i think he's sleeping now
17:07:17 <Gs30ng> it's AM one o'clock here
17:07:59 <nooga> and fact that the earth is a sphere ;p
17:09:10 <Gs30ng> you're right. we should make alternative world with befunge
17:09:31 <Gs30ng> so with 2-dimensional earth
17:09:56 <jix> 2-dimensional earth has timezones (if you reduce the speed of light)
17:11:25 <nooga> and differences between that timezones are in microseconds ;p
17:12:05 <Gs30ng> we need a static sun on 2d earth then
17:12:19 <jix> if you say.. light travels with... 1m/h
17:12:36 <jix> you have a timezone every 1m
17:12:58 <jix> i'm working on compression again...
17:12:59 <Gs30ng> somebody's gonna turn that sun on/off a day
17:13:24 <nooga> but light *DOESNT* travel with 1m/h
17:14:08 <jix> 18:09:34<jix>2-dimensional earth has timezones >>>(if you reduce the speed of light)<<<
17:14:38 <jix> that's the reason discworld has timezones
17:16:11 <nooga> but we *DONT* want to have timezones!
17:16:27 <Gs30ng> then we can have facial sun
17:16:37 <Gs30ng> 2-dimensional lightsource in the sky
17:16:40 <jix> we don't need a sun!
17:16:55 <jix> we just tunr the brightness of our screens higher
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17:17:19 <jix> moin WildHalcyon!
17:17:32 <jix> what do you think about timezones?
17:17:58 <WildHalcyon> I think timezones are pathetically artificial constructions and should be done away with entirely
17:18:14 <jix> speed of light of 1m/h and a flat world => timezones every 1m :(
17:18:38 <WildHalcyon> We're at the point technologically that each clock could be synced with its latitude and longitude to provide pinpoint accuracy regarding current time
17:18:40 <Gs30ng> we can't see a thing in that world
17:19:08 <jix> Gs30ng: uhm we can see it.. but.. it laggs^^
17:19:52 <jix> there was a simulator with a 3d thing you put on your head that simmulated speed of light = 30kmh
17:20:10 <jix> and you were on a bicycle
17:20:15 <jix> i saw it on tv
17:20:35 <Gs30ng> well then is the fact that nothing can speed more than light still valid?
17:20:58 <Gs30ng> nothing can speed more than 1m/h? lol
17:21:33 <jix> electric signals move with speed of light right?
17:22:27 <jix> i think the longest feedback cycle in a cpu is a few meters long ... that would make computer awful slow
17:23:44 <WildHalcyon> Jix, not to mention the fact that you couldn't see the screen for an hour
17:24:38 <jix> and internet...
17:24:56 <Gs30ng> well we have nothing to worry about
17:24:59 <WildHalcyon> It would take several days to have this conversation
17:25:06 <jix> hmm sound can't move faster than speed because sound is movement of molecules and thus must be slower than light
17:25:11 <Gs30ng> our mind is then slower than 1m/h
17:25:18 <Gs30ng> we're not gonna feel anything slow
17:25:25 <WildHalcyon> It would take several minutes to talk with my neighbor
17:25:27 <Gs30ng> just think everything's working as well
17:25:33 <jix> Gs30ng: good point
17:26:05 <jix> Gs30ng: everything would still look funny if we move
17:26:13 <jix> even if our brain works slower
17:26:13 <WildHalcyon> we would redefine our concept of seconds and hours
17:26:36 <jix> is there an esolang that works with speed of light = 1m/h
17:27:20 <Gs30ng> takes several years to print out Hello, World
17:32:39 <Gs30ng> if we have a malbolge hello world code then it's easy to execute and see it
17:33:10 <Gs30ng> but in 1m/h language..
17:34:44 <WildHalcyon> I was referring to the fact that it took several years for someone to develop a hello world program ;-) kind of crappy humor for a crappy sorta day
17:35:37 <jix> can i test if a program is compiled with debug symbols from the c preprocessor?
17:38:19 <GregorR> WildHalcyon: I don't like your timezone idea :P
17:39:12 <GregorR> If I'm in Portland and I have a friend in Bend, and we want to meet at 1:30, and it's an hour to get there, I should be able to leave at 12:30, not 12:00 - making all clocks synced by location just makes infinite many very complicated timezones.
17:39:29 <GregorR> Also, that's the fastest car ever if it takes an hour :P
17:40:31 <tokigun> ehm recently i was busy because of homeworks and projects and so on... sorry :S
17:40:35 <WildHalcyon> Well, that's why you agree to meet at 1:30 bend time. Just because its an hour drive doesn't mean its an hour timezone difference
17:41:41 <GregorR> Bend is (south)east of here, timezone wise it's probably a half hour away, so I would have to leave a half hour before an hour before we're supposed to meet in Bend time - we have to agree on /some/ time to meet!
17:42:22 <GregorR> Again, magically fast car, it's more like three hours away and probably not 30 minutes timezone wise XD
17:43:17 <jix> afaik before timezones were invented people used local time and it was chaos with trains etc... that's why there are timezones
17:43:28 <Gs30ng> that's why we need a goto instruction for languages
17:43:34 <WildHalcyon> Hmm, but that was also before gps and mapquest
17:44:12 <jix> thay had exact local time (i don't know the english word ... clocks that use the sun and shadow)
17:44:58 <jix> the problem ist if the train takes 5 minutes it arrives 3 minutes later (local time)
17:46:12 <Gs30ng> i just remember that word because i was once so praised by my english teacher by knowing that word
17:47:08 <Gs30ng> it, in a way, looks like kinda easy word but also a little bit esoteric
17:47:26 <GregorR> I only have one bottle of Moxie left, and almost a week until I buy more!
17:48:06 * Gs30ng starts to program a 99 bottles of Moxie code for GregorR.
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17:56:17 <GregorR> According to babelfish, your leave message was "Only the former goes"
17:56:31 <GregorR> However, that phrase has no meaning in English, so I'm pretty sure babelfish failed :P
17:57:01 <WildHalcyon> I've gotten babelfish to translate some kooky stuff before though.
17:58:07 <Gs30ng> i should change my default quit message then
17:58:14 <Gs30ng> something that bablefish can translate
17:58:30 <WildHalcyon> One of the earliest babelfish incarnations had difficulty understanding "never" when translated into spanish.
17:59:23 <jix> bable물고기는 실패했다
18:00:21 <jix> what did i say?
18:00:38 <Gs30ng> bable fish has failed, i think
18:00:50 <jix> i tried to say that
18:00:54 <jix> but what did i say?
18:01:17 <Gs30ng> "bable fish has failed"
18:01:21 <jix> than the msg is wrong
18:01:40 <jix> because it didn't fail
18:01:42 <Gs30ng> in korean its "bable fish has failed"
18:02:07 <Gs30ng> seems it work for some simple sentences
18:02:31 <jix> 너는 이것을 읽을?
18:03:32 <jix> it was "you can't read this"
18:03:52 <jix> translating it back to english is: It will read this it spreads out
18:04:39 <jix> my quit msg is: Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht
18:04:46 <GregorR> This read and swip the possibility of reading this there was I
18:04:49 <jix> it's a typo...
18:04:53 <GregorR> I have not even a clue what that means :P
18:05:06 <WildHalcyon> I typed in "I could read this if this were readable"
18:05:16 <jix> GregorR: fish helps (it translates correct)
18:05:31 <tokigun> WildHalcyon: its meaning is "this (is) read easily i can read this" roughly
18:06:06 <jix> GregorR: what?
18:06:19 <tokigun> yeah... babelfish is fun. really fun. :p
18:06:22 <GregorR> Babelfish is indeed fun XD
18:06:32 <jix> someone translated my quit msg?
18:07:03 <tokigun> i cannot understand Deutsche
18:07:14 <WildHalcyon> "There are 99 bottles of beer on the wall" --> 벽에 맥주의 99개의 병 있는다 --> "There are pulse attention 99 bottles by the wall,"
18:07:19 <jix> tokigun: use babelfish
18:07:27 <Gs30ng> Babelfish is just like most of esolangs... it's so fun but also only fun, like if you try to make something pragmatic...
18:07:56 <tokigun> jix: babelfish says "Please you select a funeral message"
18:08:20 <jix> Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht is my quit msg... Bitte waehlen Sie eine BeeNdigungnachricht is the default quit msg of some clients
18:08:37 <WildHalcyon> Oh, I thought it was dutch, not german.. my bad
18:08:56 <jix> the 2nd is: Please select a quit msg
18:09:08 <jix> the 1st is: Please select a funeral msg
18:09:24 <Gs30ng> check out the interwiki links on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language
18:09:26 <jix> only one letter changed
18:10:20 <Gs30ng> seems there are English, 한국인, Deutsche, Espanol interested in esolang
18:11:15 <Gs30ng> Эзотерические языки программирования.
18:11:50 <jix> Keymaker lives in Finland
18:11:59 <jix> nooga in Poland
18:12:23 <jix> i thought it's cold in Finland...
18:12:38 <WildHalcyon> it is, so her body temperature had to overcompensate
18:13:17 <jix> are there female esolang programmers?
18:13:41 <WildHalcyon> none that I know of. And every female I've mentioend esolangs towards just looks at me funny
18:14:29 <Gs30ng> once female appeared on the history of this channel
18:14:46 <Gs30ng> the girl with nickname 'rosemary'
18:15:06 <jix> maybe rosemary is a ... bot?
18:15:19 <Gs30ng> maybe she typed typo of exoteric well...
18:15:38 <jix> it took years until the first girl joined #macintosh@euirc
18:15:39 <Gs30ng> you can look up the channel log to check it
18:17:01 <Gs30ng> i don't clearly remember when was it but i think calamari was there with me
18:17:21 <jix> no rosemary in my logs
18:18:06 <Gs30ng> just after rosemary parted keymaker joined, so calamari told him 'you've just missed a historical event lol' or something like that
18:18:26 <Gs30ng> anyway i agree with you guys that there's no female esolang programmer
18:18:57 <WildHalcyon> There should be. Im sure a female would provide excellent esolang ideas
18:19:58 <jix> hmm female programmers on irc are somewhat rare => female esolang programmers on irc are even rarer
18:20:21 <jix> on #ruby-lang there are afaik 3/300
18:20:40 <jix> maybe if we get 100 users there will be one female esolang programmer
18:21:14 <jix> we need more publicity
18:21:17 <GregorR> I think in #esoteric it would be more like 1/10000000000000000000000
18:21:23 <Gs30ng> because ruby is no esoteirc
18:21:38 <Gs30ng> tshirts... what on it?
18:21:47 <GregorR> http://www.cafepress.com/esolangs
18:21:49 <WildHalcyon> Everyone wearing a tshirt looks like someone you'd like to get to know better
18:21:50 <jix> something only esolang programmers understand
18:22:43 <GregorR> http://www.cafepress.com/esoprog
18:22:45 <jix> and if someone asks you "wtf is that?" you say "you have to be fluent in 100 esolangs to understand that" and than everyone is going to lern esolangs
18:23:03 <jix> or maybe not
18:23:19 <jix> http://www.cafepress.com/esoprog.32075179 << there is a shorter bf in bf
18:24:21 <jix> but you could print a bf in bf and a .. uhm * in bf on ONE mouspad => more fun
18:24:58 <WildHalcyon> What about a bf mug like: http://www.cafepress.com/shop/geeks/browse/store/math_shirts.10760566
18:25:24 <WildHalcyon> I've got a few whitespace tshirts in my closet
18:25:57 <jix> WildHalcyon: i have a whitespace tattoo right on my face!
18:33:47 <chips> Usage: ~udage {code}
18:34:02 <Gs30ng> i made a udage code with only whitespaces
18:34:53 <grim_> that does not look so good on a terminal
18:37:31 <GregorR> http://www.cafepress.com/esoprog.33142406
18:40:30 <chips> RunTimeError exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError('cp949' codec can't decode bytes in position 1-2: illegal multibyte sequence)
18:42:40 <WildHalcyon> I think I have a good shirt idea; but I'll have to work on it further
18:46:43 <Gs30ng> ~udage ESSSSEOOEOOOSSSSSEEOOEOESSSSSEEOEEOOSSSSSEEOEEOOSSSSSEEOEEEESSSSSEOEEOOSSSSSEOOOOOSSSSSEOEOEEESSSSSEEOEEEESSSSSEEEOOEOSSSSSEEOEEOOSSSSSEEOOEOOSSSSSEOOOOES
18:46:43 <chips> result: 'Hello, World!'
18:46:43 <chips> order: 0 1 13 25 37 49 61 72 83 95 107 119 131 143
18:47:36 <WildHalcyon> What was the one you used yesterday? With the '/' and '-'?
18:48:10 <Gs30ng> you know, udage is also symbol independant
18:48:43 <Gs30ng> you can just replace that E, S, and O to something else, and the code will work as well
18:52:17 <WildHalcyon> The idea being, of course, that we should put a whole bunch of languages on a shirt that all say "Hello, World!" more or less
18:53:40 <Gs30ng> or we can put a polyglot
18:54:23 <Gs30ng> A code that prints Hello, World! in many esolangs
18:55:31 <WildHalcyon> True, but it requires much more work than I precisely feel in investing.
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18:59:09 <WildHalcyon> I was hoping to include a language written by each individual, but Gregor needs to write a more terse language!!!
19:05:13 <GregorR> 2L isn't terse enough for you?!?!?!
19:05:23 <GregorR> I guess it isn't, really :P
19:06:40 <WildHalcyon> I dont know if that would fit well on a shirt
19:15:19 <GregorR> I feel like anything I start to write is trampling on already-implemented territory.
19:15:24 <GregorR> Udage was original, wish I'd thought of it ...
19:17:29 <WildHalcyon> That's why all the languages Ive been coming up with are.. more like 'reimplementations', which probably isnt very good
19:18:01 <Gs30ng> the reason that i came up with udage is
19:18:16 <Gs30ng> like, there's an esolang named Aheui
19:18:24 <Gs30ng> uses Hangul, Korean alphabet
19:18:58 <Gs30ng> subtitle of Aheui, "Why should ASCII have all the fun?" inspired me
19:19:27 <Gs30ng> Aheui uses Hangul, so no ascii programmers can code in it without some auxilary tools
19:19:58 <Gs30ng> but i enjoyed programming in it, realizing that coding in one's own native language is great
19:20:02 <GregorR> Whereas Udage could be written by anybody, though their code may then be difficult (not impossible) for another person to read :P
19:20:26 <GregorR> s/by anybody/in any (unicode-supported) language/
19:20:52 <Gs30ng> in that point i saw that there could be a language which can wrote in any kind of language
19:20:58 <Gs30ng> that's how udage came out
19:21:50 <Gs30ng> GregorR, I'm preparing some stuffs related to udage, like use MIDI file as a source code
19:22:29 <Gs30ng> you can easily see it's possible with small efforts
19:24:28 <jix> Gs30ng: is the instruction jumped to executed or the next instruction?
19:24:47 <jix> like if i have abcdTefgh and T is the jump target is the instruction T or e?
19:26:54 <jix> Gs30ng: ping
19:31:49 <jix> Gs30ng: PINGPINGPING?!
19:32:06 <jix> it's in the spec faq ^^
19:32:32 <Gs30ng> right, i expected that kind of question
19:32:46 <jix> you expected people to read the spec faq right?
19:35:17 <GregorR> I love when "FAQ" doesn't mean "frequently asked questions", but instead "expected questions"
19:35:19 <WildHalcyon> bad move gs, no one EVER reads the spec faq. Unless there isnt one, then you get people asking questions like "Hey, where's the spec faq? I want to read it!"
19:36:28 <Gs30ng> well... then should i merge spec page and faq page?
19:36:59 <Gs30ng> like, faq about Conditional jump is right after the Conditional jump spec?
19:41:48 <Gs30ng> http://gs30ng.exca.net/udage/Specification
19:48:24 <WildHalcyon> Ive got more research to do than I expected
19:50:02 <jix> Gs30ng: i'm writing a udage interpreter in ruby (RuDage) that is fun to read!
19:50:08 <jix> well you can read it
19:51:22 <Gs30ng> Ruby-Udage - Rudage. cool
19:51:32 <Gs30ng> i'm writing it in python
19:52:07 <Gs30ng> i've just implemented all spec except for input... it's crazy
19:52:25 <Gs30ng> i don't believe that i wrote that part of spec
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20:54:35 <jix> forget the fun to read part...
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21:20:22 <GregorR> Gs30ng: Hmm, how is EOF handled?
21:21:58 <GregorR> When reading input, how does it know that the file is ende?
21:22:15 <Gs30ng> input 1 unicode character
21:22:52 <Gs30ng> read only 1 character... that's all in spec
21:23:21 <GregorR> You'd think that upon nitpicking the spec I would have got that ...
21:23:55 <Gs30ng> i'm not sure how it should work... it's on respective implementation, i think
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21:25:13 <Keymaker> (btw, has anyone bought that stuff yet ;))
21:26:00 <GregorR> Keymaker: Thank you, and no ;)
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21:39:53 <Keymaker> i think i'll go to sleep. i don't feel like staying up tonight.. now just hoping if could see something non-nightmare :)
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22:10:02 <Gs30ng> OMG now there's 5 korean in #esoteric
22:10:14 <barosl> Gs30ng, what server of hanirc are you in? [..]
22:10:51 <Gs30ng> seems all the servers are unavailable currently
22:11:27 <Gs30ng> why don't you just use google talk to ask such a thing? :)
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23:26:20 * GregorR wonders who noricube is ..
23:27:40 <Gs30ng> he is the developer of chips
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01:56:17 <Gs30ng> Gee.. in current spec i hardly can recycle the udages that already used
01:57:28 <Gs30ng> if B is currently 1 or 0 and i want to make it 0, the code will be AAABCBCB
01:57:47 <Gs30ng> if B was 1 then there's no problem
01:58:00 <Gs30ng> but if B was 0 then C is now 1
02:10:16 <Gs30ng> making udages all zero is not easy... there's something to fix in spec, i think
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02:50:59 <Gs30ng> i think this way of conditional jump is better
02:52:16 <Gs30ng> looks too bf-like but gets rid of some problems in current conditional jump
02:52:31 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon, we can already loop
02:53:00 <Gs30ng> BCAAABC would be simple loop right now
02:53:33 <WildHalcyon> Sometimes I miss calamari.. or jix... (not sure who came up with the idea anymore) using glypho test, multiply, and skip operands. Those were snazzy, but fairly difficult (except in powers - its easy to do exponentials in glypho!)
02:54:49 <WildHalcyon> gs30ng: couldn't AAAB...A be... ambiguous?
02:55:29 <Gs30ng> erm.. what do you mean?
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02:56:28 <Gs30ng> look, there's some 'chunks' in udage. like AAAA...A is a chunk. Suppose a cursor jumps *into* the chunk
02:56:45 <WildHalcyon> I mean, what if you have AAABAAAAB.. what would that do?
02:57:25 <Gs30ng> if B is 1 then AAAAB... will be executed endlessly
02:57:54 <Gs30ng> AAAB ... A is just like [ ... ] of brainfuck
02:58:37 <WildHalcyon> Right, I understand that, but how do you know that what I just typed was AAAB A A AB and not AAAB A AAB ?
02:59:12 <Gs30ng> you mean the problem of priority?
03:00:35 <Gs30ng> there's some several principles i used to design udage... actually there can't be a code that can be parsed in 2 or more ways
03:00:53 <Gs30ng> first the interpreter cursor meets AAA
03:01:11 <Gs30ng> then it take 1 more character as its operand
03:01:31 <Gs30ng> and go UNTIL it see A again
03:01:55 <Gs30ng> so AAABA does nothing but loop if B is 1
03:03:04 <Gs30ng> interpreting sequence would be:
03:04:21 <Gs30ng> 1. if i need a closing udage(like in I/O), that has the most priority. so first check if code[cursor] == closing udage
03:05:57 <Gs30ng> 2. if it wasn't a closing udage, then i check 4 letters forward: if code[cursor] == code[cursor+1] == code[cursor+2] == code[cursor+3] then start I/O and cursor+=4
03:06:40 <Gs30ng> 3. then i check 3 letters forward: if code[cursor] == code[cursor+1] == code[cursor+2] then start conditional jump operation
03:07:20 <Gs30ng> i don't feel quite right with my explanation. i myself don't understand it
03:07:36 <Gs30ng> i should cleanup my thoughts and put it on wiki
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03:51:23 <Gs30ng> does your pc turns off itself?
03:51:55 <WildHalcyon> (occassionally it restarts spontaneously, but almost always when the lights flicker)
03:52:24 <WildHalcyon> I think power fluctuations from the line are transfered through the power supply to the mother board which for whatever reason is having a hard time coping
03:52:33 <Gs30ng> too many expected causes
03:53:36 <WildHalcyon> I know, but the WEIRD thing is that it just started doing it more (MUCH more) this past weekend when I moved my computer to my living room - to an ungrounded outlet mind you
03:54:10 <WildHalcyon> Why do apartment constructors insist on placing grounded outlet covers on ungrounded outlets?
04:00:16 <GregorR> Yeesh, that's pretty bad ...
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04:01:32 <WildHalcyon> I know. Ive got a surge protector, but there's only so much that I can do
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04:26:27 <WildHalcyon_> Hmm, the trouble with interactive TRANSCRIPT is that there are no loops in IF
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04:57:17 <GregorR> Man, I am never using lame sideways smileys again!
04:58:02 <Gs30ng> what about smileys like this
04:58:15 <GregorR> Pff, using more than one character is for the weak.
04:58:40 <Gs30ng> Umlaut is good but kinda tiresome for me to type
04:58:54 <GregorR> Do you have the compose key?
04:59:23 <Gs30ng> no compose key in korean keyboard afaik
04:59:57 <GregorR> Well, if you're using X11 and have it set up right, it'll commandeer your right alt key (or any key you please)
05:00:11 <GregorR> Then I can make an ö, for example, by alt-o-"
05:03:47 <Gs30ng> GregorR, what do you think about changing conditional jump syntax in udage
05:04:37 <Gs30ng> i want to make it AAAB...A -> while (B is nonzero) {...}
05:05:03 <GregorR> It seems like that would be easy enough to do with the conditional jump as-is.
05:06:20 <Gs30ng> well in current spec you can't initialize all the udages that is used
05:07:03 <Gs30ng> "Set A 0, whatever A was"
05:08:40 <GregorR> Oh yes, I remember your snippet.
05:08:51 <GregorR> Well, if you like it, that's all that matters, I'm relatively indifferent.
05:10:33 <Gs30ng> there are already several people working on implementing udage... i don't want to bother them with meaningless reason. i just wanted to check out my idea good or not
05:11:59 <Gs30ng> also i don't think udage *my* language, since it inherits a lot of concepts from other esolangs, and is developed with critical help of guys who is/was here
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05:54:48 <Arrogant> Good. Busy. All that good stuff
06:03:27 <GregorR> School's been keeping me somewhat busy.
06:03:40 <GregorR> Not so much with homework, it's been relatively light, but just with schedule headaches.
06:18:27 <Arrogant> I've got school and work, not much free time
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21:07:18 <Gs30ng> i was to change the spec of udage but hesitated because there are already some programmers implementing it
21:07:51 <Gs30ng> it's a small difference but can affect the basic structure of implementation
21:08:12 <Gs30ng> well actually i've just changed it. check the wiki out
21:08:20 <jix> i had a question ... but i forgot it
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21:09:01 <Gs30ng> NASA guys again... poor jix
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22:42:44 <kipple> you seem to have forgotten to chmod the new glypho spec
22:43:10 <kipple> "You don't have permission to access /~bcthomp2/glypho.txt on this server."
22:46:26 <Gs30ng> because that spec is available for only esolang guru
22:46:56 <WildHalcyon> Its been accessable in the past.. I wonder what changed
22:48:33 <WildHalcyon> Im in the process of working on a glypho webpage
22:48:45 <WildHalcyon> Nothing complex, but I haven't started writing it yet
22:49:20 <Gs30ng> webpage... i just installed MoniWiki and made some pages
22:49:48 <kipple> I'll have my Glypho shorthand interpreter up soon (hopefully)
22:50:02 <kipple> now that I finally know what the last instruction is
22:50:08 <Gs30ng> maybe you can follow this way if you feel tiresome with managing html pages or something
22:50:31 <Gs30ng> kipple, what language is it in?
22:50:51 <kipple> I just modified my Kipple interpreter, so it isn't very optimal
22:51:22 <Gs30ng> Kipple language.. was it FSM with 2 stacks?
22:51:54 <Gs30ng> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_state_machine
22:52:04 <kipple> Kipple has lots of stacks, not just two. and it's fully TC
22:52:34 * WildHalcyon is a finite state machine. My current state is: Awake and Slightly Hungry
22:54:12 <Arrogant> Also Federated States of Micronesia, but nobody cares about them
22:54:16 <Arrogant> And they certainly only have one stack
22:54:21 * WildHalcyon eats a flying spaghetti monster. My current state is: Awake and Slightly Full
22:55:47 <WildHalcyon> Im lucky I live here, in a country that can afford many stacks
22:57:00 <Arrogant> If only we were all so blessed
22:57:32 <kipple> about the execute instruction: if the stack contains the values 0 1 2 2 (top is to the right), what pattern will be executed? abcc or aabc
22:58:31 <kipple> agreed. but the spec should probably state that explicitly
22:58:56 <WildHalcyon> Probably, I'll clarify that in the next rewrite. Im going to completely redo most of the spec for clarity
23:00:03 <kipple> I'll implement it that way then
23:01:37 <WildHalcyon> I should have created glypho to be number independent :-( Oh well!
23:02:10 <WildHalcyon> Well, it relies on addition, multiplication, and negation
23:02:44 <kipple> a bit hard to avoid...
23:02:52 <kipple> (though possible I guess)
23:03:02 <Gs30ng> i once thought about glypho's way when i've just came with the fundamental idea of udage... i screwed it up because the code with 4n length couldn't satisfy me, like, i was intending a language whose code can be written in audio file like MIDI
23:05:50 <Gs30ng> Waltz is always 3-x messure afaik... and if i make a glypho variant whose code is 3n length, i hardly can write code of 4-x messure music
23:06:09 <Gs30ng> well but glypho is lovely enough
23:06:25 <WildHalcyon> unless you allow multiple symbols and differentiate between them
23:06:46 <Gs30ng> well are 5 symbols not enough?
23:07:38 <kipple> depends on the instructions. 5 of the Glypho instructions is not enough for TC
23:09:26 <kipple> but I don't see why there is a problem with 3-x music. It's still a long string of symbols, and the Glypho interpreter can read them four at a time, even though the music is 3-x
23:10:03 <Gs30ng> kipple, you mean then the code always is 12n length?
23:10:21 * kipple 's english vocabulary lacks the musical terms to properly discuss this
23:11:22 <kipple> no matter how long the code is you can still read them 4 at a time. i don't think the spec says that the number of symbols has to be divisible by 4
23:11:47 <Gs30ng> well i meant that each notes of music are symbol
23:12:18 <WildHalcyon> Hmm, I meant "mine too, dont worry".. that do shouldnt have been included
23:13:49 <Gs30ng> what if my code is 'abc'? is it nop or abcd(considering EOF as a symbol)?
23:14:20 <kipple> that depends on whether EOF is part of the symbol-set the interpreter recognizes
23:15:00 <kipple> I would think so, but Wildhalcyon would be the right person to answer that...
23:16:22 <WildHalcyon> An incomplete instruction shouldn't be executed
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23:19:02 <WildHalcyon> Im almost inclined to say "ignore it", but it couldd be useful information regarding an error state
23:19:59 <WildHalcyon> its because you're wearing exploding socks
23:20:12 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon: right... it's gonna be a cosmic mess if i miss just one letter in glypho code
23:20:48 <Gs30ng> that's something we should raise exception/error...
23:21:20 <Gs30ng> but then it's gonna be hard to make a code with modern english sentence or something
23:22:04 <Gs30ng> i was considering audio source code even before i named my language
23:22:27 <Gs30ng> well it's already hard... right lol
23:22:55 <Gs30ng> if i'm properly understanding what score is
23:23:08 <GregorR-L> And does the length of the note (quarter, eighth, sixteenth) matter, or just the pitch?
23:23:15 <GregorR-L> Gs30ng: The score being how you write out music
23:23:35 <Gs30ng> you mean bunch of notes(probably on a paper)?
23:24:53 <GregorR-L> So, does the length matter, or only the pitch?
23:25:15 <Gs30ng> i was thinking that, for example if there's one note with 4 length, it's just aaaa
23:25:33 <Gs30ng> apparently pitch matters
23:25:45 <kipple> well, that is entirely up to the user
23:25:53 <kipple> (in the case of Glypho at least)
23:26:14 <kipple> glypho places no restrictions on what is considered a symbol
23:26:29 <Gs30ng> it's up to implementation i think
23:26:48 <WildHalcyon> You could even use glypho patterns as the underlying symbols!
23:26:48 <GregorR-L> So a carefully constructed wave file could use the amplitude of every sample.
23:27:50 <GregorR-L> Yeah, I think I could make an Udage interpreter that takes a MIDI file as input.
23:28:01 <GregorR-L> Type 0 preferably, and it would only interpret track 0 :P
23:28:11 <Gs30ng> actually a friend of mine is preparing it
23:28:13 <WildHalcyon> Ive been looking at 2-d glypho, encoding both horizontal and vertical. You need a minimum set of symbols though...
23:28:49 <WildHalcyon> anyhow, I have a "half-assed" job interview
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23:30:23 <Gs30ng> i'm not quite sure how should i interpret a chord(and i'm also not sure is this word right)
23:30:42 <Gs30ng> i mean 2 notes that comes simultaneously
23:30:57 * GregorR-L will be composing Udage music soon :P
23:31:38 * Gs30ng will be painte Udage art soon XD
23:32:04 <GregorR-L> Then I'll put .ogg files up that can't even be interpreted :P
23:33:24 <GregorR-L> You can get the pitch of each note out from a .ogg? Even if I play chords?
23:33:40 <Gs30ng> listen -> make a score of the music
23:34:41 <Gs30ng> and i'm also thinking image source codes
23:36:03 <Gs30ng> there are 'newline's in image unless it is 1px height
23:36:30 <Gs30ng> ignoring them all could make sense
23:37:10 <Gs30ng> but i wonder if there's greater idea with handling 'newline's in image
23:37:34 <Gs30ng> well instead of image, should i say Umage? :)
23:38:45 <Gs30ng> [im|ud]age. i want to compose this words smoothly... ok anyway
23:39:31 <Gs30ng> i have no idea how would it be possible
23:40:44 <Gs30ng> this morning i found my terrible mistake... i described the tape of Udage as 2-dimensional
23:41:08 <Gs30ng> it's linear tape just like bf's one
23:42:07 <Gs30ng> it's a miracle that nobody have asked about this(seems no one realized what's wrong...)
23:42:53 <GregorR-L> The direction of program flow can be represented by two Udages .............
23:43:05 <GregorR-L> That is, the 0-locations of two Udages ..........
23:43:11 <GregorR-L> Or better yet, position 1 and 2 on the tape
23:43:25 <GregorR-L> I just thought it was 1D, I didn't even notice it ever said 2D :P
23:45:14 <Gs30ng> ok then it could be one more variant just like trigger and glypho
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23:45:35 <GregorR-L> I'm not proposing changes to Udage itself.
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23:47:30 <Gs30ng> well.. doesn't lane sound like no plane but linear?
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23:48:46 <GregorR-L> Well, I'll mull that over, I have to go to class.
23:48:48 <Gs30ng> what about Umage, since it's born because of image source code?
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02:07:52 <WildHalcyon> That interview I had was a complete sham. I feel like a moron.
02:52:53 * GregorR should look at timestamps before responding ...
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03:03:49 <Gs30ng> completed new conditional jump... now i am going to write 99Bob in Udage
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04:37:57 <WildHalcyon_> I have been in the process of looking for new employment
04:39:18 <GregorR> Yeah, not sure exactly what they do.
04:39:57 <WildHalcyon_> its a pyramid scheme. Technically, a "legal" pyramid scheme. More to the point though, its complete bullshit
04:40:19 <GregorR> If you said that in a job interview, that may be why it went badly ;)
04:40:35 <WildHalcyon_> Im still a little angry. No, I was very polite in the interview.
04:44:54 <WildHalcyon_> The fact that it was a sham interview. I was hoping for a real business, and maybe a real job.
04:45:27 <GregorR> I figured you might know what they were when you went in :P
04:46:36 <WildHalcyon_> I had no clue, to be honest. My efforts to research the 'company' didnt really google anything conclusive, except that they might be accountants. They're not, btw.
04:47:52 <GregorR> The official site makes it look like they're an advertizing firm.
04:48:51 <GregorR> But I see now how "multi-level marketing" can easily mean "pyramid scheme"
04:49:37 <WildHalcyon_> Well, this was before I had any idea thatthe folks I met with were connected with Amyway.
04:50:04 <GregorR> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
04:51:14 <WildHalcyon_> Im familiar with the company and "multi-level marketing" associated with it
04:51:39 <GregorR> I love, by the way, how it's essentially named "The American Way!"
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05:01:43 <calamari> how's it going? haven't been keeping up with the channel lately
05:02:04 <GregorR> Have you seen Gs30ng's latest Udage developments?
05:02:28 <GregorR> Which reminds me: Up for vote, Udaglane (Udage + Plane) as a good name for a 2-dimensional Udage I'm stewing?
05:03:29 <GregorR> Udaglane (8 chars) is too long, and brainfuck (9 chars) isn't?
05:03:51 <calamari> is there already a twodage? or tuodage?
05:04:12 <GregorR> That's what they /want/ me to name it!
05:04:27 <WildHalcyon_> Hey gs30, sorry Ive been researching my fraudulent company some more
05:04:29 <GregorR> Besides, Udaglane just sounds nice.
05:06:49 <Gs30ng> hmm... Udaglane. for me it sounds like something flies... i guess my brain worked like udage(uda) + glider(gl) + airplane(ane)
05:06:55 <WildHalcyon_> I stand by my "world ain't ready yet" comment. Then again, was the world ready for brainfuck? or intercal?
05:07:38 <Gs30ng> 2D udage... 2D glypho could be easy but 2D udage is... well...
05:09:17 <Gs30ng> shit my client program lacks
05:14:26 <WildHalcyon_> I've already been working on 2D glypho. Trying to determine the minimum number of symbols necessary. At first I thought 16, but I think only 8...
05:16:08 <Gs30ng> fundamental concept of udage includes regarding source code as linear; it even regards EOL as one udage, and repeating udages in row does something special... i don't think 2D udage is kinda easy nor successful...
05:16:54 <Gs30ng> maybe i can make Image Udage (Umage?) with ignoring 'newline's in image
05:18:04 <WildHalcyon_> not really. images don't have "newlines", they're generally organized as a linear array divided into chunks for each row
05:21:21 <Gs30ng> well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be source code of udage, not actual ways of image
05:21:47 <Gs30ng> for example i think i can't use JPEG file as source code of udage
05:22:26 <Gs30ng> (according to jpeg spec afaik)
05:31:08 <Gs30ng> i don't really know what's the 8-by-8 DCT, but it sounds like what i know... so probably that
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05:53:39 <Gs30ng> Udage wiki doesn't work in IE
05:54:19 <Gs30ng> the whole page is being not opened
05:54:23 <GregorR> Suffffffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr, stupid IE users!
05:54:29 <GregorR> Sufffffffffffffffferrrrrrrrrrrrr, stupid IE users!!!
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05:56:14 <Gs30ng> internet lectures which government services uses activex
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05:57:40 <Gs30ng> anyway i gotta fix this
06:00:48 <Gs30ng> is Udage Turing-complete?
06:02:25 <Gs30ng> it's obviously Turing-complete
06:02:39 <Gs30ng> since it's like Boolfuck
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06:09:48 <Gs30ng> well now it seems TOO like boolfuck
06:10:18 <GregorR> Just because you can make a one-to-one translation doesn't mean it's too similar.
06:11:05 <GregorR> I mean, Udage is all operands, Boolfuck is all operators.
06:11:31 <Gs30ng> but i just want more 'new' things
06:12:11 <Gs30ng> btw, is Udage all operands?
06:12:33 <GregorR> Some would say yes, some would say no.
06:13:02 <Gs30ng> but there's real operands
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06:13:17 <Gs30ng> like BC in AABC, B... in AAAB...A
06:14:17 <Gs30ng> A could be an operand. that's something to take a look...
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06:14:55 <Gs30ng> A is the key to start BVChanging operantion, but also operand of that operation
06:15:24 <Gs30ng> the operation gets A as argument and changes BV of A. that's right...
06:15:49 <GregorR> So the only disputable parts are AA, AAA and AAAA
06:16:09 <GregorR> I should have just said regex A* :P
06:16:29 <GregorR> N/M, that would have matched "" and "A" XD
06:18:42 <Gs30ng> it seems 4 udages in row are not operand but instruction
06:19:37 <GregorR> You're teetering on the edge of 0 instructions and infinite instructions XD
06:21:31 <Gs30ng> wait it's not infinite it's up to the number of symbols available
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06:37:30 <Gs30ng> ok then... seems Udage is Turing tarpit
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06:53:18 <nooga> yesterday i saw a real radiotelescope :D
06:53:46 <GregorR> Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
06:53:53 <nooga> http://www.astro.uni.torun.pl/index.html :>
06:54:25 <nooga> and i know how to destroy such things :>
06:54:46 <nooga> and i know how is the computer network built there
06:57:17 <nooga> antenna movement is controled by old 486 with dos aboard, there's HPUX in a control terminal, and every other computer there runs on Fedora Core 2 :D
07:01:46 <nooga> and data channel is a 2Gbit fiber-optic connection with the rest of radiotelescopes and computing facilities in the world :>
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07:06:40 <Gs30ng> somebody DCC send me something to drink
07:07:59 <nooga> damn, i must build a small radiotelescope in my backyard !
07:08:39 <calamari> nooga: that'd be cool.. but how? :)
07:09:52 <nooga> must contact with that guys from Piwnice radioastronomy centre :>
07:11:10 <nooga> first i need some grid and a detector :>
07:16:03 <calamari> reminds me of a pdf I have of a document made during the cold war, on how to build a radiation exposure meter using household materials
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15:28:53 <nooga> i wonder when i'll meet tokigun -.-'
15:29:44 <kipple> the wiki is down again :(
15:37:35 <kipple> wildhalcyon: do you have a direct link to the glypho spec? can't find it without the wiki...
15:42:36 <nooga> got fast connection and speakers?
15:42:44 <nooga> check this out: http://www.webfeatsdesign.com/wf5/v5f.html
15:48:50 <Robdgreat> "This site optimized for OC connections"
15:58:26 <nooga> cuz it works good for me
15:59:17 <Robdgreat> if I were on anything faster it'd be fine
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17:47:11 <jix> nooga: the site (webfeats...) is bad
17:48:05 <jix> if i want to get from one page to the next one i have to wait longer than 10 secs.. no site should ever take longer to load.. some studies showed that most users get bored after 10secs loading time
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17:48:33 <jix> and that's true for me... i usually press cancle after 10 secs (except when the content of the site is really important for me (wikipedia))
17:48:59 <kipple> I agree. a ton of flash animations between pages is bloody annoying
17:49:47 <jix> and a really bad thing (that should be banned from the internet) are websites that play sounds without asking the user
17:50:20 <jix> my loudspeaker volume was very high when i opened the site... WHOOOOOM... :(
17:50:32 <kipple> I think that's a problem of the web browsers really. They should have a volume control built in
17:50:50 <jix> websites shouldn't play sounds at all
17:51:15 <jix> i want to listen to music while i'm reading webpages
17:51:22 <jix> or play guitar
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18:14:29 <nooga> btw. i play guitar too :)
18:15:34 <jix> np: America - Sandman [ History - America's Greatest Hits ]
18:18:38 <nooga> np. in polish == ie. in english
18:19:56 <jix> i play punk, rock and metal
18:20:16 <nooga> what guitar have you got ?
18:20:18 <jix> but i like blues too
18:20:33 <jix> my e-guitar is a cheap yamaha guitar (/me has no money)
18:21:00 <jix> and my acoustic... need to check that... i just tried some at the shop...
18:21:26 <nooga> i've got electric Cort-X11
18:21:48 <kipple> I've got a japanese Fender Stratocaster
18:21:55 <nooga> and acoustic no-name chinesee guitar calles "Azalea" :D
18:22:09 <nooga> kipple: stratocaster o.O ?
18:22:48 <nooga> o.O is an emoticon with big eyes
18:22:56 <nooga> and small mouth :>
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21:04:10 <ihope> Any non-lurkers about?
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21:04:56 <ihope> EsoS has been scrapped and now I'm thinking about Felidae EsoKernel.
21:05:49 <ihope> Esoteric operating system.
21:08:20 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:08:56 <kipple> what's the Feildae EsoKernel then?
21:09:48 <ihope> Well, it's pretty much a very simple operating system written in Brainfuck.
21:10:08 <GregorR> So it, presumably, does not run on real hardware.
21:10:27 <ihope> Right; it'd all have to be emulated.
21:11:01 <ihope> Unless, of course, somebody will donate such a server specifically for running Felidae.
21:11:24 <jix> i want a fpga with internal or external arm cpu, soldered, with large pins for adding other hw
21:12:04 <jix> (fpga is field programmable gate array)
21:12:07 <GregorR> /dcc-send jix FPGA-56480ARM5V.6
21:12:22 <ihope> Hmm, I looked that up right before you said that :-)
21:12:39 <ihope> Um, yes that sounds very cool. FPGA >:-)
21:12:49 <GregorR> Were you looking for XScale? :P
21:13:10 <jix> ah intels strongarm...
21:13:22 <jix> is it binary compatible to the arm7?
21:13:41 <jix> than xscale is ok
21:13:50 <jix> (i once learned arm7tdmi asm)
21:13:54 <GregorR> /dcc-send jix FPGA-56480XSCALE
21:14:37 <ihope> Hey, I haven't yet figured out what ARM is! :-)
21:14:52 <jix> Advanced Risc Machines
21:15:13 <ihope> Acorn RISC Machine?
21:15:31 <jix> the first arm chip was from acorn as was called Acorn RISC Machine afaik
21:16:13 <jix> but acorn went bankrupt
21:16:52 <jix> the arm chip was developed for computers but now they are used in many mobile phones or other embedded devices
21:17:18 <jix> (gba,nintendo ds,ipod,gp2x,....)
21:17:21 <heatsink> it has an exceptionally good performance per watt
21:18:19 <jix> the gp2x needs 2 AA batteries and runs 8h in video mode (and has 2x200mhz arm cpus)
21:18:22 <ihope> Porting of Mac OS X to the x86 architecture
21:18:28 <jix> has nothing todo with arm
21:18:43 <ihope> Supposedly it was done for performance-per-watt stuff, I think.
21:19:23 <jix> and there wasn't much porting... the darwin kernel was already multi platform and the higher level parts are OS independent... only some drivers and libs needed/need porting
21:19:58 <jix> they say they did it because IBM wasn't able to deliver enough ppc g5 chips
21:20:46 <ihope> I thought it was to enter the x86 market with a nice commercial operating system...
21:21:08 <jix> no.. apple makes no money with software... they make money with hw
21:21:23 <GregorR> Apple will not sell an OS that runs on generic Intel machines.
21:21:35 <jix> GregorR: but it does
21:21:39 <GregorR> They will still be Apples, just Apples with Intel chips.
21:21:53 <GregorR> jix: ... no it doesn't ...
21:21:55 <jix> some people i know run the beta even on amd machines...
21:22:12 <GregorR> The beta was leaked, and was for testing purposes only.
21:22:20 <GregorR> The release is not going to run on generic machines.
21:22:42 <jix> ihope: because no one will buy expensive apple hw then
21:22:59 <jix> GregorR: i think the final version will be cracked too
21:23:21 <jix> but i'm still going to use apple hw
21:23:23 <ihope> They have plenty of other stuff...
21:23:36 <jix> ihope: ipod.. and?
21:23:53 <ihope> Um. Mini and nano :-)
21:24:07 <jix> GregorR: the mighty mouse is 2 button!
21:24:10 <ihope> They're making a five-button aren't they?
21:24:18 <GregorR> OK, stupid two-button mice - still not three ;)
21:24:31 <GregorR> I couldn't use a computer without my precious middle button.
21:24:40 <jix> GregorR: 2 button + 2d scroll wheel that is clickable and it has an extra squeeze button
21:24:47 <GregorR> ihope: Wouldn't it be quite un-apple to make a five button?
21:25:06 <jix> GregorR: i'm using a m$ mouse on my apple
21:25:15 <jix> can't work without 2 button
21:25:21 <ihope> I'm using a tablet thinger.
21:25:37 <jix> have to sleep now
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21:26:06 <ihope> "Mighty Mouse is an animated superhero"... do you think I have the wrong page?
21:26:32 <GregorR> It's probably still the front page of www.apple.com
21:27:31 <ihope> That's the iPod Nano.
21:28:15 <GregorR> Oh, right, they made a new posterboy
21:31:03 <ihope> ...Okay. This is #esoteric, aye? :-)
21:32:45 <ihope> Shouldn't we keep it that way, or at least near to it?
21:34:43 <ihope> Okay. Maybe I'll annoy you with Felidae ;-)
21:36:03 <ihope> Okay. Felidae is a MMOG based on Brainf*** and stuff.
21:36:44 <GregorR> Errm, is it written in BF? If so, how is it O?
21:37:28 <ihope> The server would be running BF programs.
21:39:04 <ihope> Well, a person would connect to his account via Telnet, and a program would automatically be run to serve him with the game interface and stuff.
21:39:20 <ihope> He'd have to write this himself >:-)
21:41:46 <ihope> You know, I could do away with EsoKernel and make the user write that him/herself as well.
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21:43:45 <ihope> "Welcome to Felidae. Please write an operating system in the following space:"
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21:45:15 <ihope> Of course, you could just use any operating system somebody's put out in the ol' pool...
21:45:28 <ihope> Like a port of Linux into BF.
21:45:49 <GregorR> It would help to make GCC spit out BF first :P
21:45:54 <Gs30ng> it's AM6 here... i got up so early
21:46:19 <ihope> Indeed it would. Any volunteers?
21:46:33 <graue> Richard M. Stallman doesn't have anything better to do
21:47:59 <ihope> Isn't he getting paid to give speeches or something?
21:50:29 <Gs30ng> server down in which my website is
21:50:46 <graue> ihope, he has a grant from the MacArthur Foundation so I doubt he gets paid for speaking (he doesn't need it)
21:50:47 <Gs30ng> apparently it blacks out when it rains here
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00:42:23 <handongseong> Glypho -> Gly4(four) which has instruction of 4 symbols
00:42:36 <handongseong> i would make Gly3 which has instruction of 3 symbols
00:45:48 <handongseong> aaa : change BV of a, aab : change PV of a with BV of b
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01:55:49 <ZeroOne> hey... anyone wants a Gmail invitation?
02:01:53 <ZeroOne> probably not... I'm obviously a few months late with this. ;)
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02:22:23 * GregorR does not HAVE and does not WANT GMail
02:37:04 <kipple> hehe. I was browsing the Klingon language article on the wikipedia (I'm updating the var'aq article), and I noticed that there is a Klingon edition of the Wikipedia :D
02:45:56 <graue> update the var'aq article on esolang too
02:46:16 <kipple> that's the one I was updating
02:46:26 <kipple> just some small changes
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04:13:48 <graue> WildHalcyon, good day
04:14:38 <graue> apparently washing machines are controlled by firmware these days
04:14:51 <graue> wonder if I could hack my washing machine and make it run a Brainfuck interpreter
04:23:12 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon, here's the figure that would help your comprehension about udage parsing priority
04:23:14 <Gs30ng> http://gs30ng.exca.net/udagewiki/pds/priority%5Fimage%5F01.png
04:24:16 <Gs30ng> i'm adding some information about priority problem on the spec page of wiki with that image
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15:31:49 <jix> great idea:
15:31:49 <jix> http://ruby-talk.org/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/159518
15:34:40 <Gs30ng> another great idea of Pattern Based programming
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19:25:26 <jix> i'm working on a unbreakable encryption!
19:25:28 <calamari> not too bad.. the cable is getting activated today, so I'm excited about that
19:25:30 <jix> that is easy to brake
19:25:53 <GregorR> So it can't be broken, but it can be slowed to a stop?
19:25:54 <jix> (i have no idea how secure it is)
19:27:12 <calamari> if you want to find out, there is a newsgroup that you can post the algorithm to
19:27:37 <jix> i don't even know if it is decryptable ^^
19:27:44 <jix> if i made no mistakes
19:28:26 <jix> "Hallo wie geht es dir?" != "??H??,?u;۳=s?d?? 6"
19:32:10 <jix> crypt_map shuffle wasn't reversible
19:54:18 <GregorR> If it's not decryptable, wouldn't it be a hash :P
19:54:42 <jix> a hash has some other important (argh word missing)
19:54:58 <jix> properties
19:56:17 <jix> it has a good coverage over all bits (like a checksym) it's hard/impossible to generate a content that maches the hash
19:56:28 <jix> a cryptographic hash
19:56:59 <jix> for a hash trees tables... the coverage over all bits is important
19:57:17 <jix> the 2nd thing isn't important for that
20:07:10 <jix> argh encrypting 1kb of zeros results in a chi-square test result of "almost suspect"
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20:15:33 <GregorR> Esoteric programming languages.
20:18:35 -!- Airrick112 has left (?).
20:19:32 <cpressey> too esoteric for even the esotericists.
20:22:05 <GregorR> Somebody mentioned that there had been one female in this room, ever, a Rosemary.
20:22:09 <GregorR> I just remembered talking to her.
20:22:16 <GregorR> I said hi, so she PM'd me (grr).
20:22:22 <GregorR> She thought this room was about psychics XD
20:24:18 <Robdgreat> well, it could be argued that many of the discussions here run to the paranormal
20:24:44 <jix> my encryption is somewhat based on the chaos function ~3.9*x*(1-x)
20:28:04 <jix> ultra-hard test... encrypting zeros without salt
20:34:07 <GregorR> ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
20:34:29 <calamari> here, try it on my credit card #
20:34:49 <GregorR> And social security number
20:34:58 <GregorR> And that three-digit security number on the back of my credit card.
20:35:08 <GregorR> And my mother's maiden name!
20:35:45 <calamari> I love how I have to use my ssn for everything these days
20:36:00 <calamari> to sign up for cable, I had to give it? why? so they could run a credit check
20:39:13 <calamari> but, I'm a libertarian, so most everything relating to the govt upsets me these days ;)
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20:45:32 <jix> moin WildHalcyon
20:46:34 * jix writes an encryption algorithm
20:48:18 <WildHalcyon> Where up is down, and right is left, and two dozen is 47*sqrt(2) ?
20:48:44 <jix> up can be everything.. (it's salted)
20:49:02 <jix> same input => different output
20:50:06 <jix> you can think of it as prepending the msg a random number and xor the msg by that number
20:52:05 <jix> mersenne twister prng inited with time and pid
20:52:25 <jix> in my implementation
20:52:55 <jix> in my case not
20:53:45 <jix> because it's only a salt and the 2nd byte of the number is allready encrypted with the key ... and i don't generate many random numbers (MT is a bad choice for one time pad where you generate a random number for every byte)
20:57:33 <jix> i think the algorithm is weak as hell... because i wrote it to be secure
20:58:34 <WildHalcyon> I generally go for "different" as opposed to weak. Im less concerned with secure cryptography, since any cryptography algorithm I could devise would be made more secure by performing a secure algorithm on top of it.
20:59:34 <jix> rot13 isn't getting more secure by adding another rot13
21:00:05 <jix> huh longer key => worse statistical results?
21:01:37 <WildHalcyon> I don't really count rot13, since the caesar cipher is incredibly easy to break.
21:02:01 <jix> any monoalphabetic cipher is easy to break
21:02:13 <jix> even if there are symbols! possible keys
21:02:43 <WildHalcyon> I was thinking more along the lines of a glypho-based cipher
21:03:06 <jix> glypho based?
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21:03:19 <jix> A => some cryptic symbol B=> some other cryptic symbol ?
21:03:21 <jix> moin Keymaker
21:03:48 <WildHalcyon> yes. By encoding the underlying symbols as a pattern (A => aaaa, B=> aaab, C=> aaba, etc)
21:04:09 <WildHalcyon> then randomly assigning a's and b's from a symbol set (say a-z)
21:06:04 <WildHalcyon> not very secure, especially if you know glypho coding
21:06:37 <WildHalcyon> it breaks down into a cryptogram type puzzle fairly quickly
21:07:00 <WildHalcyon> Im brainstorming ways to make it more secure
21:07:05 <jix> => monoalphabetic
21:07:07 <jix> => unsecure
21:07:28 <jix> first use my chaomatic encryption than apply glypho coding
21:08:15 <jix> it's based on the chaos function x -> ~3.9*x*(1-x)
21:08:47 <jix> and on a character substitution table that is shuffled every byte
21:09:03 <jix> with a high data => encryption state feed back ratio
21:09:38 <jix> x is changed depending on the last byte and the table is shuffled depending on x and on the last byte
21:10:19 <jix> and the byte is encrypted by the salt and key
21:10:39 <jix> and i always hit the eject key on my keyboard
21:10:42 <WildHalcyon> I'm all about character substitution tables shuffled at every byte
21:11:35 <jix> but i've paid extra money for that key!
21:11:41 <jix> (and for the apple on the keyboard ;)
21:12:03 <WildHalcyon> so you have an apple keyboard and a windows mouse?
21:12:15 <jix> and an apple computer
21:12:29 <jix> and a samsung and a philips screen
21:12:42 <jix> (the samsung one is better)
21:13:01 <Keymaker> (interesting thing in the logs was that someone was asking if this was a room for esoterism.. :D)
21:13:21 <jix> yeah.. stupid idea... #esoteric a room for esoterism ...
21:13:39 <jix> it's the other way around here
21:13:42 <jix> i hate windows
21:14:27 <Keymaker> just wait for windows vista then ;)
21:14:58 <WildHalcyon> It thinks I pirated this copy of windows, which I technically did, but only because the CD that M$ gave me didn't work, and they refused to give me a new one. Rather than be out $300, I got this one from a friend
21:15:27 <jix> m$ is slow... they don't release a mayor os version each year
21:15:42 <WildHalcyon> Now I can't update it, to hopefully fix this freezing issue
21:18:38 <Keymaker> grhh.. have to let others use computer, bbl..
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21:19:00 <WildHalcyon> I want to use linux, but I dont know if they'll ever support my audio card or wireless card
21:22:09 <jix> write your own os
21:22:21 <jix> i'd like to build a robot
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21:22:41 <jix> moin canislupus
21:22:42 <WildHalcyon> plus, then I would need to write a web browser
21:22:49 <jix> WildHalcyon: port one
21:24:16 <jix> WildHalcyon: better idea... design your own cpu build your own computer with your own os and your own programmming language with your own browser written in it to view pages in your own format delivered over your own network
21:25:26 <jix> WildHalcyon: write a befunge cpu
21:25:54 <jix> eject again
21:26:21 <jix> ARGH is more than a computer language
21:26:29 -!- WildHalcyon has changed nick to GlyphoGuru.
21:26:44 <GlyphoGuru> I know nothing outside the esolang world
21:26:55 <jix> it's like d'oh or..
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21:29:39 <GlyphoGuru> I've been thinking of a multi-threaded networked befunge for distributed computing
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21:42:32 <calamari> WildHalcyon: which audio card and wireless card do you have?
21:42:57 <GlyphoGuru> calamari: I've got an on-board audio card... I don't remember the name, hold on while I investigate.
21:43:13 <GlyphoGuru> The wireless "card" is a proxim orinoco USB adapter
21:44:27 <calamari> and it doesn't work with ubuntu?
21:45:49 <calamari> I started using it because it worked with my audio card when none of the others did
21:46:18 <GlyphoGuru> It might then, its worth a shot, especially considering the fact that I have an unused 100GB partition on my HD
21:46:36 <calamari> you can test it out using the live cd
21:48:38 <calamari> it is able to use my soundcard, the mpu401 midi daughterboard on the card, printer, joystick, scanner, digital camera, well everything :)
21:48:39 <GlyphoGuru> Looks like it might be something to seriously consider
21:49:08 <calamari> I don't have a wireless card or usb drive so I cna't comment on that
21:49:31 <GlyphoGuru> Im not worried too much about the USB drive. Those have been pretty portable on a variety of systems
22:01:54 <calamari> that's what I did because dialup takes too long
22:03:03 <GlyphoGuru> I've got "high-speed" wireless, its supposed to take another 3 minutes of downloading
22:05:16 <GlyphoGuru> They've got a lot of bandwidth though. Fastest speeds I've ever seen... 1800 K/s
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22:41:47 <ihope> Any nonlurkers? :-)
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22:53:59 <Keymaker> although a bit late to reply ;)
22:55:15 <Keymaker> jix: i was answering to ihope's question about any nonlurkers
23:07:53 * GlyphoGuru is working on some not-so-interesting stuff
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01:34:46 <GregorR> Occasionally somebody who hadn't seen it before notices it, and I get acclaim.
01:34:55 <GregorR> Then it sinks into unnoteworthiness again.
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02:16:47 <Gs30ng> i gotta make Korean version of ORK
02:24:37 <Gs30ng> i don't only love the structure of the language but also naming sense of it
02:25:17 <Gs30ng> it can stand for recursive abbreviation; ORK codes R Kool
02:31:34 <Gs30ng> this is sooooooooooooo object oriented
02:32:28 <Gs30ng> class names force me to roll on the floor
02:35:48 <Gs30ng> "There is a mathematician called Fibonacci."
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03:48:18 <wildhalcyon> I DLed it successfully, haven't tried burning it yet
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07:37:01 <nooga> good morning wide world!
07:47:48 <nooga> it's 14:46 in Korea now
07:48:08 <GregorR> It's 23:46 in Oregon now :)
07:49:03 <nooga> 8:48 in Pia/Poland :)
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15:07:24 <jix> moin kipple
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19:28:19 <ihope> Any nonlurkers about?
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20:24:03 <GregorR> Lurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrking
20:40:19 <calamari> cool.. have found 6 streaming trance stations so far
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21:46:49 <jix> befunge <@> gnu beef
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03:46:37 <Gs30ng> yesterday i've been Cheonggye creek
03:46:57 <Gs30ng> it's really weird that there's no article about cheonggye creek in english wikipedia
03:48:59 <Gs30ng> ok, i'm not sure whether i have proper english terms to describe this, but i'll try it
03:49:14 <Gs30ng> There was once a creek called Cheonggyecheon in Seoul, capital of Korea.
03:50:28 <Gs30ng> In the process of city development, it is blocked with cement and there had been no creek for a long time
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03:52:37 <Gs30ng> in 2002, Myeongbak Lee became the new city major of Seoul, and he tried restoration of Cheonggye creek
03:54:33 <Gs30ng> in the beginning there was lots of people against this, but he finally made consensus
03:55:31 <Gs30ng> and in October 1st, Cheonggye creek is officially reopened, and a lot of people came to see this
03:56:22 <Gs30ng> so i was also interested about this, and went there yesterday with a friend of mine
03:59:09 <Gs30ng> as you may know, density of population in seoul is kinda one of world's highest thing, and high cost of real estate, etc
03:59:31 <Gs30ng> it's kinda... dreary city with high buildings
04:00:09 <Gs30ng> thus cheonggye creek is so welcomed by people
04:01:57 <Gs30ng> i'll show you one i took
04:03:51 <Gs30ng> http://gs30ng.exca.net/tempimage/064_cheonggye.jpg
04:04:37 <wildhalcyon> So the water is pumped up from that point to flow out?
04:05:22 <Gs30ng> you're highly interested :) i'll show you the very point that water comes out
04:06:09 <Gs30ng> http://gs30ng.exca.net/tempimage/057_cheonggye.jpg
04:06:50 <Gs30ng> the fountain is kinda artificial, and this is the true point of start
04:07:18 <Gs30ng> before here, water flows underground
04:15:45 <Gs30ng> oh, Seoul city prepared some english pages about Cheonggyecheon. anyone interested check this out: http://english.seoul.go.kr/
04:17:55 <Gs30ng> damn lot's of typo... major -> mayor
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04:24:46 <Sgep> I have to leave soon
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07:18:53 <Gs30ng> today we are to program in Aheui
07:19:00 <Gs30ng> it's Hangul day; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul_Day
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08:54:40 <Gs30ng> main page of wikipedia says it's islamabad
09:04:31 <nooga> ah, yea, i heard the news in radio
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15:36:28 <wildhalcyon> fantastic! I was afk for a while too. Really clears the sinuses
16:08:58 * jix has a glypho question
16:09:54 <jix> using e to execute ] or [ is illegal right? (it should)
16:10:15 <jix> the compiler i'm working on thinks it is
16:10:35 <jix> so e:ing ] or [ could be 2 other instructions
16:10:56 <wildhalcyon> Probably... that could cause quite a bit of trouble huh?
16:11:17 <jix> it would make compiling... ~impossible
16:14:53 <jix> so i thought make e] => exit with code POP and e[ => toggle life/buffered IO
16:18:45 <jix> normal IO is buffered (output gets flushed when printing \n input is flushed when hitting \n)
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16:22:11 <Robdgreat> if you'd stick around more than 2 seconds, you'd get an answer more often
16:24:28 <ihope127> Which is bigger: unbounded or arbitrary?
16:26:41 <jix> wildhalcyon: what about e] and e[
16:28:10 <jix> [ executed using e and ] executed using e
16:28:20 <jix> ihope127: see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Glypho
16:29:13 -!- ihope127 has changed nick to ihope.
16:29:31 <jix> imo executing [ and ] using e is stupid and the space should be freed for 2 other instructions
16:41:40 <jix> WOW i'm on #1 on 99bob
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16:45:56 <jix> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/toplist.html
17:16:14 <ihope> cat /dev/random > /dev/null
17:18:29 <jix> but m$ owns a patent on that
17:19:30 <ihope> Just what is all this junk in /dev?
17:21:54 <ihope> Ooh: cat /dev/urandom | telnet microsoft.com
17:28:10 -!- Sgep has joined.
17:28:48 <ihope> Hmm, I can cat one terminal window to the other.
17:30:41 <ihope> Cool, catting them into each other makes a sort of chat thing.
17:32:16 <Sgep> ihope: How did you cat terminal windows?
17:32:54 <ihope> They're devices: /dev/ttyp1 and /dev/ttyp2
17:33:46 <ihope> I used ttyp1 to cat ttyp2 into ttyp3.
17:34:38 <ihope> Everything I typed on ttyp2 went to ttyp3 until I ctrl+c'd it.
17:34:55 <ihope> But now cat on ttyp2 sends everything to ttyp3 again.
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20:43:33 <GregorR> YO YO G WUT UP IN DAH HIZZLE WIKI WIKI YEAAAAAAAH
20:44:49 <nooga> do u listen to royksopp, anybody?
20:51:32 * nooga has made totally div+css based layout in xhtml :>
20:52:05 <GregorR> I made a div+css based layout for Giki - but I don't like XML :P
20:52:52 <nooga> it was for my sister blog
20:53:04 <nooga> i hate blogs and all that stuff
20:53:26 <GregorR> Blogs are just the retarded cusins of forums.
20:53:37 <nooga> http://zwykle-zycie.blog.pl/
20:53:57 <GregorR> AHHHHH, THE NOT ENGLISH!!!
20:54:52 <nooga> you have chance to see my native language in action ;p
20:55:38 <nooga> i heard it's one of most difficult :>
21:00:19 <nooga> how do you like it huh?
21:00:43 <GregorR> But I'm always put off by ... THE NOT ENGLISH!!!
21:01:37 <nooga> and her english is worse than mine ;p
21:05:22 <nooga> and mine is not so good
21:10:11 <nooga> what do you think, he?
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22:06:10 <nooga> i asked about my english
22:06:30 <nooga> and got no reply for hour
22:11:31 <kipple> well your english looks allright to me (atleast what you write here)
22:12:00 <GregorR> nooga: Not perfect, but understandable.
22:12:03 <Robdgreat> I think my bf to c converter is done
22:12:25 <kipple> then it's time to start on the c to bf converter, right?
22:12:49 <Robdgreat> www.thepaddedcell.org/phpbf/examples/bftoc.php
22:13:29 -!- Robdgreat has changed nick to Robdgre[a]t.
22:14:19 <nooga> i wrote satol to c converter in php :)
22:14:21 <Robdgre[a]t> soon I'm gonna reorganize stuff and link it from my home page
22:14:49 <kipple> "Operation completed in 0.00047707557678223 seconds" - now that's an accurate clock :D
22:15:25 <nooga> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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02:09:07 <Gs30ng> booted in ubuntu linux!
02:09:56 <Gs30ng> much beautiful and convenient environment, and no available contents in Korea! :(
02:10:40 <Gs30ng> in Korea most websites are IE only... ActiveX hell
02:11:41 <Gs30ng> does WINE support activeX?
02:12:26 <heatsink> WINE supports IE; IE supports activeX; therefore, WINE supports activeX :)
02:12:31 <Gs30ng> but i heard activex is unavailable on IE on wine
02:13:09 <Gs30ng> because activeX control is too much glued with it's os... windows
02:14:21 <heatsink> well, sorry about the lack of website.
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15:04:48 <kapowaz> I did not realise you were on freenode all this time
15:04:57 <kapowaz> I am mostly in other chanel number 5
15:05:09 <kapowaz> I have some code I wished to share
15:05:38 <kapowaz> I am considering patenting this algorithm
15:05:56 <kapowaz> but I wished to search for possible examples of prior art
15:06:12 <kapowaz> unfortunately it appears there is evidence of prior art in pretty much every website I've ever written
15:06:20 <grim_> I do not think one could patent the null program in any language
15:06:35 <kapowaz> one would have thought you couldn't patent *any* program! *guffaw*
15:06:48 <kapowaz> but clearly this is not the world in which we live!
15:07:02 <kapowaz> why doth thou name suffix with _ ?
15:08:04 <grim_> 15:07 [freenode] -!- Nick grim is already in use
15:08:58 <grim_> enough of thy guff anyway kapowaz
15:12:07 <kapowaz> your name is not nearly unique enough
15:12:24 <grim_> yes, I will change it
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15:33:42 <wildhalcyon> I rhink Jix has invented the official esolang greeting
15:38:20 <kipple> tried out var'aq for the first time yesterday. A fun language, but a bit buggy implementation...
15:38:36 <wildhalcyon> really? Thats a shame. Whats buggy about it?
15:39:03 <kipple> some things doesn't work like the spec says
15:39:16 <kipple> (or maybe I'm misunderstanding the spec)
15:39:52 <kipple> anyway, I wrote 99bob and submitted it
15:41:58 <kipple> level 0. the others doesn't exist
15:43:34 <kipple> you said "there we go" ;)
15:44:05 <wildhalcyon> Well, sometimes I like to take strange journies
15:45:22 <kapowaz> the internet has dropped here
15:45:33 <kapowaz> and somebody walking past saw it on the floor and picked it up
15:45:42 <kapowaz> thankfully they are the honest sort, and handed it in at reception
15:45:54 <kapowaz> if they hadn't, I would have been marooned for all eternity in the void that is "offline"
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15:59:18 <nooga> maybe in a while i'll get some ruby code to hack
16:03:25 <kapowaz> tell computer to do my job for me while the time is between 9am and 5pm in England
16:04:24 <nooga> and what's your job?
16:04:25 <kapowaz> I apologise, my only understanding of ruby is that which was provided via a helpful explanation involving the use of cartoon foxes.
16:04:46 <jix> kapowaz: haha why's guide...
16:04:55 <jix> kapowaz: not good to learn ruby
16:04:56 <kapowaz> http://poignantguide.net/ruby/chapter-3.html
16:05:03 <jix> but funny as hell
16:05:10 <kapowaz> true, I found it utterly hilarious
16:05:22 <jix> nooga: UHHH
16:06:07 <kapowaz> I think they call it Pretty Hopeless Programming
16:06:24 <nooga> i'd like to learn ruby
16:06:25 <kapowaz> but hey, I don't care, it's nice and high level and forgiving and it does what I want
16:06:40 <kapowaz> if I were to learn a new language it might be pie-a-thon
16:06:49 <kapowaz> no language involving pies can be bad
16:08:06 <kapowaz> why the lucky stiff, ah yes
16:08:25 <kapowaz> a thoroughly surreal blogger if ever there was one
16:08:34 <kapowaz> "hex-editing reality to give us infinite grenades!!"
16:29:15 <nooga> i really like that guide with comic strips
16:30:15 <kapowaz> chunky bacon chunky bacon chunky bacon
16:35:00 -!- nooga has changed nick to |nooga|.
16:41:36 <jix> http://deathball.net/notpron/ << really cool game
16:41:49 <jix> i'm stuck in level 13 atm
16:45:23 <|nooga|> day ago i tried to write sudoku solver in SADOL :>
16:46:53 <wildhalcyon> Tough, if you're using hard sudoku puzzles
16:46:57 <|nooga|> paradoxically i just hate to code in SADOL :))
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16:55:49 <kapowaz> I once played notpron with my girlfriend
16:55:49 <kapowaz> we got all the way up to level 50 something
16:55:49 <kapowaz> but we stopped for a while, then they changed all the puzzles
16:55:49 <kapowaz> so we would have had to start again
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16:57:52 <jKfgdkhsAqo> http://www.dillonwaugh.com/pages/menagerie.htm
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16:57:52 <jKfgdkhsAqo> buried treasure puzzle book after kit williams' masquerade
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17:15:55 <jix> it's difficult sometimes but they are all solvable
17:16:39 <jix> the first ones are easy.. but it's getting harder with every level
17:19:53 <wildhalcyon> well, its like.. the clue to number 5 didnt even result in the correct answer
17:20:27 <wildhalcyon> I translated the code right, but it wasnt correct
17:21:28 <jix> wildhalcyon: you need to do more than just plain numbers => ascii
17:21:31 <jix> that would be too easy
17:21:56 <jix> (hint: users/passwords are always english words(afaik))
17:22:07 <wildhalcyon> jix, no.. not that one, the one with the morse code
17:22:30 <wildhalcyon> I guess I just have to make everything into the closest english letter
17:23:48 <jix> there is a difference between the american and the international morse code
17:24:01 <wildhalcyon> Anyhow, Im not a big fan of 'trapdoor' puzzles like that.
17:24:14 <wildhalcyon> No, I translated it right, there was just a vowel missing
17:24:36 <jix> i solved it yesterday and there was NO vowel missing
17:25:15 <wildhalcyon> maybe its my own fault. I thought I double-checkef
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17:34:55 <NoOnE> I was just wondering whether there was a Brainfuck IDE that supports all kind of implementations (8/16/32 bit, wrapping-nonwrapping, Cr/Lf/CrLf)?
17:35:01 <NoOnE> Or should I make one?
17:37:26 <kipple> the answer to the first question is: probably not
17:38:41 <kipple> there are lots of BF interpreters and IDEs out there, but it doesn't seem like anyone of them is generally used. people just use their own self-written interpreters
17:38:55 <NoOnE> oh, well, that's the best
17:39:08 <NoOnE> at least you know what's really behind the scenes
17:39:44 <kipple> well, I think it would have been very nice to have a cross-platform debugging IDE with support for all variations of BF :)
17:40:04 <NoOnE> Is .NET cross-platform enough?
17:40:56 <kapowaz> of course .net is cross-platform!
17:40:58 <NoOnE> If one used only basic controls, we can say maybe, can't we?
17:40:59 <lindi-> NoOnE: if you use only mono then it will be
17:41:07 <kapowaz> I can visit kapowaz.net on my Mac *and* my PC!
17:41:24 <lindi-> NoOnE: so, don't use anything else and you can be sure
17:41:55 <GregorR> C, C++, FLTK, GTK+ and Qt are cross-platform enough.
17:42:33 <jix> NoOnE: BF Debugger is pretty good and supports some modes (and labled memmory positions)
17:43:07 <jix> but BF Debugger's IO support is poor (no live IO)
17:44:04 <jix> NoOnE: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/index.html
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17:46:22 <NoOnE> Isn't 3.2 MB for a Brainfuck debugger a bit too much?
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17:47:20 <NoOnE> Whoops, MS Installer runtimes
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18:47:51 <jix> wb wildhalcyon
18:51:30 <jix> fix it by installing an brainfuck OS
18:53:06 <wildhalcyon> I want to install ubuntu, but my cd burner doesnt.. err.. burn
18:53:16 <wildhalcyon> actually, the computer doesnt think the cd burner exists
18:53:56 <jix> maybe you should tell him that it does
18:55:16 <wildhalcyon> When it does listen, its usually just long enough to tell me that what I am telling it to do cannot be done, has never been done, and as far as XP is concerned, might very well be impossible
18:56:58 <wildhalcyon> Until it does it, in which case it pretends it never told me it was impossible
18:58:21 <NoOnE> You can order Ubuntu CDs as far as I know for free
19:01:07 <Robdgr8> brainfuck OS, eh? I might pay money to see one of those
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19:02:27 <wildhalcyon> I have ordered one, but it hasnt been shipped to me yet
19:11:03 <NoOnE> I got it shipped to Hungary in 3 weeks :)
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19:57:38 <GregorR> THE VIRUS SPREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADS :)
20:00:03 <Robdgreat> <GregorR> THE VIRUS SPREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADS :)
20:00:14 <jix> what virus?
20:01:42 <jix> never heard of it
20:03:14 <jix> so the symantec site is the wrong site if i want informations about it ^^
20:04:28 <Robdgreat> If you want to get technical, you could call it America's "oldest continually sold commercially marketed carbonated drink".
20:04:46 <GregorR> You can remove the words "continually sold" and still be accurate.
20:05:13 <Robdgreat> wonder why they included them, then
20:11:21 <GregorR> I think just to emphasize the fact that it /has/ been continually sold.
20:13:18 <GregorR> Anyway, Moxie is the greatest soda there is.
20:13:23 <GregorR> I have to buy it by the case, but it's worth it :P
20:14:03 <Robdgreat> ok I have to stop playing trivia or I'll never get any work done
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21:54:09 <nooga> trying to install SDL for perl
21:54:40 <nooga> i got SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many errors and SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much less hair on my head
21:57:06 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
21:59:41 <nooga> is there an SDL for Ruby?
22:00:19 <GregorR> Looking for an excuse to use a decent programming language? :)
22:01:49 -!- nooga has quit ("Leaving").
22:08:53 <Robdgreat> mind explaining the word "moin" to me?
22:16:22 <GregorR> It's some not-English language (German?) for Hello, or something thereabouts :P
23:03:26 <Robdgreat> something goes wrong, you get "Something is broken"
23:03:46 <GregorR> My reasons for hating perl are more associated with the language, not the interpreter :p
23:04:01 <GregorR> This is a language that actively encourages you to write bad code.
23:04:07 <lindi-> Robdgreat: oh, perl has an integrated debugger
23:04:08 <GregorR> It provides archaic unreadable means of doing everything.
23:04:25 <lindi-> Robdgreat: with many many one-letter commands to use :)
23:04:30 <Robdgreat> or make it clear that you're being facetious
23:05:12 <Robdgreat> I'm trying to use a script that's supposed to work right out of the box
23:05:15 <GregorR> Wait! lindi-, what gender are you?
23:05:59 <GregorR> It just occurred to me that a while ago we had this long conversation about how there were never any females in here, but "lindi" is a female name - has there been a female in our wake without us even knowing it?!
23:06:14 <Robdgreat> yeah I caught a reference to that conversation
23:06:30 * Robdgreat taps on the inside of lindi-'s screen.
23:06:32 <lindi-> GregorR: well, i'm male
23:06:44 <lindi-> better use /whois next time :)
23:07:09 <Robdgreat> nah you're the first Timo I've ever encountered
23:07:33 <GregorR> Yeah, I don't know where the name "Timo" is from or what gender it is *shrugs*
23:07:37 <Robdgreat> like "Pekka" If I didn't know him, I wouldn't know whether that was a man's or a woman's name
23:26:30 <kipple> the general rule on IRC is to assume everyone to be male, even if they call themselves Shirley or whatever. Especially on this channel :)
23:27:47 <Robdgreat> But there's got to be some chicks into esoteric languages.
23:28:58 <kipple> you think so? I don't know...
23:29:05 <GregorR> Soooooooooooooooooooomewheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere, oooooooooooooooooover a raiiiiiiiiiiiiinboooooooow
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02:54:15 <Robdgreat> GregorR killed the conversation 3.5 hours ago and it still hasn't recovered.
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03:07:52 <Robdgreat> <GregorR> Soooooooooooooooooooomewheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere, oooooooooooooooooover a raiiiiiiiiiiiiinboooooooow
03:09:26 <Robdgreat> I'm pondering wordfiles not found on their site
03:09:26 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
03:09:35 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
03:21:41 <Gs30ng> i once used ultraedit to edit the savedata of game
03:29:18 <Gs30ng> Stars! was the name of game
03:29:55 <Gs30ng> it was the best strategic simulation ever for me...
03:30:38 <Gs30ng> well now i don't even have any clue about the game... googling doesn't work
03:31:40 <Gs30ng> it's kinda OLD game... after windows 3.1 and before windows 95, i think
03:34:03 <GregorR> Anybody want to hear some music d'Gregor? :)
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03:36:04 <GregorR> And by a sec, I mean an undefined amount of time ;)
03:36:43 <GregorR> This particular bit I'm writing for Batlle for Wesnoth, a video game, so ... well, video game music :-P
03:37:19 <GregorR> Aaaaaaaaaaaand my upload is inexplicably stalled -_-
03:39:13 <GregorR> It seems to be uploading in bursts :P
03:39:23 * Gs30ng calls a worldwide delivery service.
03:42:59 <GregorR> http://www.gregorr.devisland.net/Friends_and_Relatives.ogg
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04:29:12 <Robdgreat> any benefits over free existing hosting?
04:29:52 <Robdgreat> well I meant free commercial hosting :)
04:30:07 <Robdgreat> my friend does hosting, I do occasional jobs for him, I get a free account
04:30:20 <GregorR> Certainly devisland would be worse.
04:34:14 <GregorR> Cool, you can get custom designed pens!
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05:01:49 <GregorR> On the ceiling in one of the buildings of my school, they have strange little bits of poetry posted.
05:02:03 <GregorR> Mostly poetry /about/ poetry.
05:02:29 <GregorR> So next to all the other ones, I put up "OMG POETRY RoX0rz ROFLMAOOLOLOLOLOL w00t - E1337h4x0|2
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05:43:24 <nooga> thank god for that i live in such calm region
05:43:40 <nooga> no earthquakes, tsunamis and tornados here in Poland
05:48:10 <Robdgreat> hah that's like saying "We get nuclear holocausts, but that's all"
05:52:06 <nooga> if we have strong wind here, it can break a tree or take crappy roof away
05:52:42 <nooga> but i heard only about maybe 3 fatalities in whole country
05:53:32 <Robdgreat> all the REAL wind comes from the water
05:54:48 <GregorR> Yeah, those polocks only get the pansy wind ;)
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05:55:42 <nooga> we've got baltic sea here
06:01:24 <nooga> but baltic sea is almost isolated
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06:29:16 <nooga> trying to write pong in perl using sdl
06:29:50 <GregorR> Creating an evil so great that it tears a hole in the very fabric of space-time?
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11:57:41 <Gs30ng> cmeme is a log bot afaik
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13:30:43 <nooga> must write something about SADOL
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14:11:39 <kapowaz> grimace, change your name back immediately
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14:57:00 <Gs30ng_> is there any programming language based on sports game?
14:57:09 <Gs30ng_> like, baseball programming language?
14:57:47 <jix> i don't know one
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16:43:03 <nooga> #include @ ircnet :D
18:04:57 <kipple> that's normal. it'll probably be back up soon
18:05:19 <nooga> not exp log srand xor s qq qx xor
18:05:20 <nooga> s x x length uc ord and print chr
18:05:20 <nooga> ord for qw q join use sub tied qx
18:05:20 <nooga> xor eval xor print qq q q xor int
18:05:21 <nooga> eval lc q m cos and print chr ord
18:05:23 <nooga> for qw y abs ne open tied hex exp
18:05:25 <nooga> ref y m xor scalar srand print qq
18:05:27 <nooga> q q xor int eval lc qq y sqrt cos
18:05:29 <nooga> and print chr ord for qw x printf
18:05:31 <nooga> each return local x y or print qq
18:05:33 <nooga> s s and eval q s undef or oct xor
18:05:35 <nooga> time xor ref print chr int ord lc
18:05:37 <nooga> foreach qw y hex alarm chdir kill
18:05:39 <nooga> exec return y s gt sin sort split
18:06:19 <nooga> it prints: "just another perl hacker"
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21:51:41 <kipple> is this the new perl bashing channel?
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22:04:33 <GregorR> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoxie :)
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01:10:28 <ihope> Hmm. mIRC and expired at that.
01:12:52 <ihope> What's the Church numeral 0 in Iota?
01:17:52 <ihope> Heck: what are s and k in Iota?
01:18:43 <ihope> Oh, heh. *i*i*i*ii and *i*i*ii.
01:27:07 <ihope> Grr. What's the identity function in Iota?
01:28:01 <ihope> Really? The I combinator? Hmm, that means *ii.
01:29:39 <ihope> So the Church numeral for 0 in Iota is **i*i*ii*ii?
02:21:09 <ihope> Ooh, this Unlambda abstraction stuff is cool.
02:31:59 <ihope> But programs can get *very* long.
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03:07:29 * GregorR hates wildhalcyon's computer too.
03:08:00 <wildhalcyon> Thank you for your hateful, hateful support Gregor XD
03:33:01 <GregorR> I gave a piece of music of mine to a friend who's in school getting a bachelor of music right now, and he told me that it was "good, for Gregor"
03:33:15 <GregorR> Probably the least helpful comment ever :-P
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05:31:33 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg
05:31:53 <GregorR> (Mind the singing voice, it's under construction ;) ... no, I am not holding my nose, my voice is /that/ terrible)
05:42:22 * Robdgreat ponders an esoteric section for his website
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06:37:44 <Robdgreat> oh yeah I was supposed to try again to figure out SADOL
06:39:14 <Robdgreat> I must be the only one here who hasn't
06:40:08 <nooga> SADOL was created when i was taking bath
06:40:49 <nooga> when i was on holiday in my grandma's house
06:41:04 <nooga> (no computers there)
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06:42:34 <nooga> i just tried to say that the best ideas are made when you away from your computer
06:42:35 <Robdgreat> it's from a Strong Bad game. you shoot the figure's head and if you miss it bounces back at you and says "YOUR HEAD ASPLODE"
06:42:58 <Robdgreat> I was referring to the language itself
06:46:09 <nooga> i've got funny log
06:47:04 <nooga> <nooga> http://nooga.int.pl/sadol/
06:47:04 <nooga> <Some_guy> I think that's how perl was invented.
06:48:44 <Robdgreat> how can you possibly like that tool of the devil?
06:49:47 <Robdgreat> I think a site called "The Padded Cell" is well-suited to esoterica
06:50:36 <Robdgreat> I just can't use it to save my life
06:50:38 <nooga> it's nice, however not as nice as ruby :DDDDDD
06:51:42 <nooga> http://p206.ezboard.com/bthepaddedcell71381 << this padded cell?
06:52:53 <Robdgreat> I'm about to create esoteric.thepaddedcell.org
06:56:11 <nooga> but as a webdesigner i tell you: layout is not too nice
06:56:51 <nooga> but it can always be better :)
06:58:53 <GregorR> Don't you wish that actually worked? :)
06:59:35 <GregorR> I definitely need to write a music-based language.
06:59:38 <nooga> if you don't mind i can write a suggestion in xhtml and css :))
06:59:55 <GregorR> Making it esoteric enough already ;)
07:00:26 <Robdgreat> well I've been meaning to migrate to xhtml
07:00:38 <Robdgreat> never bothered familiarizing myself with it until recently
07:00:57 <Robdgreat> but that's a separate issue from my layout
07:01:05 <Robdgreat> I can make the exact same site in xhtml
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07:04:24 <Robdgreat> GregorR, I was thinking of a music-based language the other day
07:04:40 <Robdgreat> well, not sure what you mean exactly, I was thinking of a tonal language
07:05:10 <GregorR> The problem is, I would like to make a music-based language where I could actually write a proper composition and feed it in, but the concept of programming lends itself to very, well ... bad music XD
07:05:30 <GregorR> I would probably feed it a .midi, not a .ogg/.mp3/.wav, so it would be music-based, not tone-based.
07:19:00 <Gs30ng_> seems you should make a GOOD interpreter to implement an OGG/MP3 music source code which sounds good enough
07:19:42 <Gs30ng_> i think MIDI is an easy choice
07:21:25 <GregorR> A "cop-out" if you will? :)
07:23:21 <Gs30ng_> in detail, there could be several ways of music source code
07:23:54 <Gs30ng_> first one is the way of beatnik(i'm not sure about spelling)
07:24:20 <Gs30ng_> each musical scale would be an instruction
07:24:52 <Gs30ng_> but this will make a BAD music
07:25:24 <Gs30ng_> well not really... it's up to the composer
07:26:31 <Gs30ng_> or as we once mentioned, pattern-based way like Udage or Glypho could work
07:26:36 <GregorR> If each instruction is a tone, you would have to either A) have lots of nops and make very atonal music or B) make terrible music :)
07:26:53 <GregorR> And pattern-based ones don't take length into account at all, which I'd like to.
07:28:02 <Robdgreat> could you achieve multithreading via polyphony?
07:28:30 <Gs30ng_> chord is kinda problem when i try to implement udage music
07:29:02 <Gs30ng_> i want there some chords in music, but don't know how to interpret them
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07:30:19 <Robdgreat> i.e. how are you imagining this being implemented
07:30:39 <Robdgreat> would you be using actual recording, or midi?
07:31:07 <Robdgreat> ok. you could conceivably work off of the root note of a chord
07:31:11 <GregorR> Actually, chords are even difficult with midi, if it was recorded rather than created in software :-P
07:31:43 <GregorR> Or one could interpret what the chord actually is (CM, Cm, C7, Caug5, etc) and work with that
07:32:14 <GregorR> That would be the guitarist's solution :P
07:32:23 <GregorR> Whereas the pianist would tell you to interpret every note ;)
07:32:40 <Gs30ng> what i have to do is checking 2 arbitrary notes and check them same or different
07:32:53 <Gs30ng> since that's the way how udage works now
07:33:02 <GregorR> Umm, with a midi, that's mind-bogglingly simple.
07:33:33 <Gs30ng> my english is going insane
07:35:01 <Gs30ng> natural language version of perl.
07:35:47 <Gs30ng> only nooga will be the one here who can speak more complex language
07:36:59 <Gs30ng> i heard that Polish is more complicated than Korean
07:37:12 <Gs30ng> well Korean is, even like the concept of perl
07:37:19 <Gs30ng> There is more that one way... blah blah
07:37:46 <GregorR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
07:38:18 <Gs30ng> you've got million ways to say something and they are all delicately different
07:38:51 <Gs30ng> you should learn them all
07:39:28 <Gs30ng> and, oh well, it's like Udage
07:39:31 <Robdgreat> I'll stick with English and Spanish
07:39:37 <Gs30ng> A can mean various things
07:39:45 <Gs30ng> it's up to what comes before A or after A
07:40:17 <GregorR> Robdgreat: By the way, did you notice your freudian typo of devisland.net?
07:40:40 <Robdgreat> no, I typed penisland.net on purpose
07:41:02 <GregorR> By the way, penisland.net actually = pen island.net, worst domain fo-pa [sic] ever XD
07:41:16 <GregorR> Even worse than www.GoTahoe.com = www.GotAHoe.com
07:42:00 <Robdgreat> the fact that they named their site that is
07:42:05 <Gs30ng> that reminds me long ago, a friend of mine scribbled on my notebook which contains assignment
07:42:11 <GregorR> Ahahaha, I see, they don't actually have anything XD
07:42:16 <Gs30ng> well it was english class
07:42:26 <Gs30ng> there was a sentence like...
07:42:34 <Gs30ng> He was a tennis player.
07:42:52 <Gs30ng> a friend of mine scribbled on it and tennis became pennis
07:43:23 <Gs30ng> i didn't aware of it until i gave it my teacher
07:43:54 <GregorR> PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAY INCOMPETENT!
07:44:13 <GregorR> Though if you know the word "incompetent", you may be unable to ;
07:51:14 <Robdgreat> there. a nice graphic for my placeholder page
07:54:27 <GregorR> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAH
07:55:44 <Robdgreat> I'd like to think that's a popular image concept
07:55:57 <Robdgreat> but google images didn't really turn up anything so I had to make my own
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08:01:38 <Robdgreat> but it's 2am so I guess I should get to bed
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14:50:11 <jix> kipple: hallo is german
14:52:54 <kipple> don't know about hillo
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15:17:16 <Keymaker> kipple: here 'hillo' means 'jam'
15:17:35 <Keymaker> anyways, gotta go :) just came to say that..
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15:33:11 <nooga_> say something in norwegian?
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16:31:44 <nooga> kipple: nie wiem co powiedziales heh :)
16:48:11 <J|x> spicht hier jetzt jeder in seiner muttersprache?
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17:06:00 <nooga> trying to write a quine in sadol
17:06:06 <nooga> i don't even know how to start
17:06:22 <nooga> and i must learn spanish -.-''''
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18:55:36 <GregorR> I can write all the funky characters 8-D
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20:01:37 <jix> moin wildhalcyon, Sgep
20:02:14 <jix> that's a difficult question
20:02:31 <Gs30ng> oops... guys appear when i decided to sleep
20:02:42 <jix> Gs30ng: bad decision then
20:03:15 <Gs30ng> well it's 4 o'clock in the morning here
20:03:38 <jix> its 7pm here
20:03:41 <Gs30ng> i don't want to sleep but i should
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00:38:44 <GregorR-L> When you're feeling down, your lips are in a frown, there's always this option available to you. So don't go looking up, or smiling, or singing, just do as I say to do, and kill yourself! Kill yourself! Kill yourself! Kill yourself! Kill yourself! Kill yourself! Kill yourself!
00:39:13 <GregorR-L> http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg
00:39:23 <wildhalcyon_> Gregor, you ever think about being a motivational speaker
00:39:51 <GregorR-L> I stil hate your computer by the way ;)
00:40:03 <GregorR-L> It's an audio format that's patent free and better quality than .mp3.
00:44:30 <wildhalcyon_> That depends on what your definition of "sing" is
00:46:05 <GregorR-L> That's impressive in a totally different way.
00:48:44 <wildhalcyon_> I heard a parrot on a tv show and I said "If that bird can sing that well, I can too!" so I've been practicing.
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00:59:59 <GregorR-L> And, if you're feeling down, I have a song to help ;)
01:00:31 <wildhalcyon_> Im not sure. I've been sick, that's probably most of it. Its 8:00 and I can barely stay awake right now
01:10:06 * kipple has become addicted to Battle of Wesnoth, and it's all Gregor's fault!
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01:18:43 <ihope> I seem to have become addicted to unbinding lambda functions.
01:21:17 <wildhalcyon_> a much better addiction than my theoreizing esolangs and never implementing them. Thats a little useless.
01:25:51 <kipple> yeah, because implemented esolangs are SO useful...
01:28:21 <GregorR-L> kipple: MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
01:29:25 <GregorR-L> Does anybody want to sing the Kill Yourself song to all their friends? It's really catchy, I'm trying to turn it into an audio virus ;)
01:34:57 <wildhalcyon_> kipple: implemented esolangs ARE useful. Sometimes they make pretty colors... at least one plays a song.
01:45:55 <kipple> well, you could use any undefined behavior in the spec for that purpose when implementing :)
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01:47:58 <wildhalcyon_> I know Smurf quotes They Might Be Giants songs. I dont see any reason why they couldn't be sound bytes
01:48:07 <wildhalcyon_> "I apologize, but your program has committed an error"
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02:53:41 <GregorR> Lengths specify different operations, and chords specify a different class of operations.
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04:38:26 <GregorR> I finally thought of a good way to make a music-based esolang.
04:38:37 <GregorR> No time to implement it right now howefver.
04:41:59 <Robdgreat> Though, just because I'm acknowledging the insanity of your idea doesn't mean I'm knocking it.
05:09:27 <lament> you music esolang better be better than mine.
05:14:01 <GregorR> I think the Udage concept is a vital ... err, concept.
05:21:51 <calamari> ahh.. no c# form designer for mono.. guess I have to use vs.net :(
05:22:16 <calamari> but, I've made it 3 assignments into the course without using windows! :)
05:22:40 * calamari somehow doubts it'll install in wine
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06:44:54 <nooga> eating my breakfast :))
06:49:24 <Robdgreat> I heard that left-handed people are 20% more likely to grab a forkful of food from someone's plate at the table.
06:49:40 <GregorR> I presume that means other than their own.
06:49:59 <Robdgreat> I figured that would be understood, so I didn't bother explicitly stating it
06:51:20 <GregorR> I would think that stealing other people's food would have less to do with your handedness than inherant meanness :-P
06:51:22 <Robdgreat> Left-handed people are 20% more likely to sample a forkful of Food from The plates
06:51:22 <Robdgreat> of fellow diners than are right-handed people.
06:51:48 <Robdgreat> I've never jacked a stranger's tater tots
06:52:45 <nooga> i've got bread with butter and cottage cheese :p
06:53:04 <nooga> with spring onion and some other green things
06:53:10 <Robdgreat> I've got fruity pebbles in the pantry
06:53:27 <GregorR> 100% of statistics are incorrect.
06:54:19 <Robdgreat> but by not being absolute, it avoids it
06:54:54 <GregorR> Is the answer to this question no? A) Yes B) No
06:55:55 <GregorR> And then, the antiparadoxes :P
06:56:06 <GregorR> Trying to parse that is hurting my brain.
06:56:17 <GregorR> It's clearly true, but creates an infinite loop XD
06:56:23 <nooga> i saw that time ago
06:56:53 <nooga> my brain was toasted
06:57:34 <Robdgreat> I wish ctrl+tab worked in a consistent manner across network windows
06:58:20 <Robdgreat> on one network, ctrl+shift+tab backs up to the previous window. but once I jump to a window for a different network, all bets are off
07:02:25 * GregorR just improved the Kill Yourself song again :)
07:03:20 <Robdgreat> but its' time I got to bed before 2am
07:03:22 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg doesn't work for you?
07:03:34 <Robdgreat> nope, it just sat waiting to connect last time
07:09:59 <Gs30ng> i have a question guys
07:10:08 <Gs30ng> how do you guys pronounce 'Malbolge'?
07:10:31 <GregorR> To use Odikeh as a phoenetic alphabet: malbUldZ
07:11:37 <GregorR> Basically, m, a as in cat, l, b, o as in your, l, dge as in edge
07:11:40 <Gs30ng> hm... i'm wondering that 'ge' pronounced 'ji' like 'Befunge' or 'je'
07:12:23 <GregorR> I pronounce it like it is in Befunge, but I don't understand your alternative :P
07:13:09 <Gs30ng> according to korean search engines, Malebolge, the ethymology, is pronounced [malebold3e]
07:13:47 <GregorR> AMERICANS CAN PRONOUNCE FOREIGN WORDS HOWEVER WE DAMN WELL PLEASE!
07:14:05 <Gs30ng> well, I'm trying to make some korean documents about this awful programming language
07:14:41 <GregorR> I would use the ethymologically correct pronunciation.
07:14:50 <Gs30ng> so i need korean spelling of this
07:15:03 <Gs30ng> that's why i'm trying to figure out the pronunciation of this
07:15:19 <nooga> someone could write something about SADOL in the wiki :))
07:16:13 <Gs30ng> it could be 말볼제 or 맬볼지... ok, what looks better for you guys? :)
07:19:03 <puzzlet> nooga, i can't catch you correctly. what encoding do you use?
07:19:56 <puzzlet> nooga, maybe you need to /charset utf8
07:19:58 <GregorR> The third symbol is more interesting in the first one.
07:20:04 <puzzlet> GregorR, http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge
07:20:40 <nooga> theese are correct Polish words :)
07:20:42 <GregorR> Yeah, that came out right, though in my font the non-ASCII characters are weird looking XD
07:21:08 <puzzlet> s-acute c-acute i e-cedila ...
07:21:46 <GregorR> "S-acute, C-acute, I E-cediiiiiiiiiiiila!"
07:21:55 <puzzlet> anyway brainf*** interpreter is up on Ubuntu - http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/devel/bf
07:23:14 <puzzlet> wondering who is the maintaineer
07:24:32 <nooga> (kto? co?) ścięgno, (kim? czym?) ścięgnem, (komu? czemu?), ścięgnu, (kogo? co?) ścięgno, (o kim o czym?) o ścięgnie, (z kim? z czym?) ze ścięgnem, (wołacz) o ścięgno!
07:25:20 <nooga> you can do this with all nouns in Polish :))
07:26:00 <nooga> it's called conjugation
07:26:13 <nooga> one noun - 7 cases
07:26:36 <GregorR> What are the conjugations?
07:26:47 <puzzlet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_conjugation
07:26:57 <GregorR> I know what conjugations are -_-
07:27:05 <GregorR> I meant what are the Polish conjugations of nouns.
07:27:27 <GregorR> In English, verbs are conjugated for time (and we only have present and past tense), so we don't conjugate much XD
07:27:49 <puzzlet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language#Conjugation
07:28:22 <nooga> for verbs we've got conjuagtion for time and person
07:28:24 <GregorR> No, from that page I would think it has no more conjugations than Español.
07:29:29 <puzzlet> it says "noun declension and verb conjugation"
07:30:10 <puzzlet> Korean language has none of them :p
07:30:21 <Gs30ng> welcome to esoteric (just) language channel
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07:30:42 <GregorR> Wow, 100,000+ downloads? That's almost slightly significant!
07:31:23 <Gs30ng> puzzlet, korean does not?
07:31:29 <Gs30ng> well i think korean has
07:31:30 <nooga> infinitive chodzić (to walk) - ja (i) chodzę, ty (you) chodzisz, on (he) chodzi, my (us) chodzimy, wy (you) chodzicie, oni (they) chodzą
07:32:09 <puzzlet> of course verbs and nouns are inflected, but under differnt terminology in Korean language
07:32:48 <Gs30ng> yeap. i think Korean one is more complex
07:33:10 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/odikeh/ :)
07:33:18 <nooga> we've got 3 grops of verbs
07:33:35 <nooga> irregular verbs are harder :))
07:33:36 <puzzlet> changing 'I' to 'he' doesn't affect verb inflection, at least
07:34:11 <nooga> we've got five genders also
07:34:16 <nooga> look here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish:Basic_Polish_sentences_2
07:35:01 <nooga> language genders -.-'
07:35:17 <GregorR> Male, female, asexual living, non-gender-specific living, nonliving?
07:35:25 <puzzlet> person-masculine, animate-masculine, inanimate-masculine
07:35:51 <lament> how is person-masculine different from animate-masculine?
07:36:14 <GregorR> lament: Male dog versus male human maybe?
07:36:22 <lament> GregorR: grammatically i mean.
07:36:25 <nooga> on, and look at that examples: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish:Plural
07:36:56 <lament> the examples provided on the page are the same for the two genders
07:36:59 <lament> what makes them different?
07:37:40 <puzzlet> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish:Noun_cases
07:38:38 <puzzlet> In Korean, say case is the preposition
07:39:02 <lament> i guess Russian lacks animate-masculine
07:39:20 <Gs30ng> preposition? in korean?
07:39:23 <nooga> maybe, i have learned russian for 2 years
07:39:31 <nooga> but i don;t remember
07:39:41 <nooga> it's quite different than Polish
07:39:45 <puzzlet> well theories of Western languages doesn't work for Korean
07:39:58 <lament> nooga: looks very similar to me
07:40:23 <nooga> maybe grammar may look simmilar
07:40:44 <nooga> but I say, it's not as simmilar as it looks
07:42:41 <nooga> in that case i should use Russian fluently -.-'
07:43:15 <nooga> but I have problems to say a simple phrase...
07:44:16 <puzzlet> hmm.. Polish and Russian are same family - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_languages
07:44:39 <nooga> and Finnish and Hungarian also
07:45:00 <puzzlet> not Finnish, says Wikipedia
07:45:25 <GregorR> Finnish is not even indo-european.
07:45:29 <nooga> but Finnish is more like: jijajayjijnjajaijajaaa and Hungarian is like: szylyszaaszyari :))
07:46:13 <puzzlet> you mean Finnish and Hungarian are both Uralic
07:47:39 * Gs30ng installs himself the second conversation killer.
07:47:48 <nooga> i thought they're both Ugrofinnish
07:48:05 <lament> although lately i think i prefer brahms.
07:48:23 <puzzlet> lament, i prefer Ligeti ;)
07:48:34 <lament> i don't like ligeti in the least.
07:48:36 <nooga> i like Hungarian blues ;p
07:48:59 <lament> i can't say i understand modern classical.
07:49:16 <lament> ligeti sounds like pure concentrated garbage to me.
07:49:30 <puzzlet> but Ligeti is just good and ... refreshing
07:50:31 <lament> also, i imagine ligeti is near impossible to play.
07:50:47 <lament> cause it makes no sense :)
07:51:31 <lament> but playing stuff is more fun than listening :)
07:51:44 <nooga> i like improvisation :)
07:52:28 <nooga> sometimes i when i play it sounds great, but i can't play the same once again -.-'
07:52:47 <lament> nooga: i like improvization, but the stuff i improvise cannot compare to liszt :)
07:53:37 <lament> by liszt, i know liebestraum and consolation no.2
07:53:52 <lament> liebestraum is one of the most powerful pieces ever.
07:54:16 <lament> i kinda suck at it (hard passages), but still...
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08:11:48 <nooga> i don't know anything for Spanish exam
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13:47:12 <Keymaker> grhh.. my solution to integer brainfuck competition don't look good at all
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15:48:12 <Keymaker> well, i think i'll go. i'm going to see that russian movie "night watch"
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16:40:48 <nooga> who reads Terry Prachet's books?
16:41:23 <Robdgreat> I may have heard of Terry Pratchett, but unfamiliar with anything by
16:41:43 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_(Discworld)
16:42:07 <nooga> but read about HEX
16:43:10 <nooga> it woul;d be funny to write HEX emulator as a esolang :))
16:44:29 <kipple> hehe. I don't think there is enough information in the books to do that...
16:45:41 <nooga> kipple: but you can always imagine the lacking part
16:45:44 <nooga> +++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
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17:49:44 * nooga plays a solo from Shine On You Crazy Diamond - Pink Floyd
17:49:53 <nooga> that feeling on my back
17:50:11 * kipple compliments nooga on his excellent taste in music
17:51:03 <nooga> oh, i don't know any further...
17:51:11 <nooga> now let's play the solo from Dogs
17:52:50 <nooga> uh... g2g, bye all
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01:35:17 <ihope> Well, I suddenly want to write a lambda unbinder.
01:35:46 <ihope> Well, lambda calculus just seems... fun.
01:40:42 <ihope> Yep. Addition is just a special type of number!
01:41:49 <ihope> You can add addition to multiplication, but it won't act like a number, really, I think...
01:43:58 <wildhalcyon> What about adding addition to the number gopher?
01:44:12 <ihope> Depends on what gopher is.
01:44:31 <wildhalcyon> apparently it depends on what addition is too
01:45:20 <ihope> ^mnfx.(mf)(nfx), I think.
01:46:59 <wildhalcyon> crazy, looks more like you accidentally hit your head on the keyboard, then matched the braces
01:47:48 <ihope> Maybe I'll configure mIRC to have a /unbind command.
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06:39:12 <Robdgreat> I looked it over and it seemed rather confusing
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06:49:09 <graue> I made a PROLAN-M interpreter
06:49:29 <graue> it will show up at www.esolangs.org/files soon but it is at www.esolangs.org/svn/esofiles/prolan-m/impl/prolan-m.c now
06:49:44 <graue> oh, it is actually called PROLAN/M I guess
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13:42:07 <kipple> Robdgreat: yes, Chef is fun :)
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14:56:39 <Robdgreat> [07:41] <kipple> Robdgreat: yes, Chef is fun :)
14:57:17 <Robdgreat> there aren't many chef sites though
14:57:39 <kipple> Yes, I know I said that. just wondering about your statement. like it was a noteworthy event or something, that I said something...
14:59:02 <kipple> and, I agree. there are far too few chef sites.
15:02:20 <kipple> have you written anything cool in it?
15:04:39 <kipple> if you use the Perl interpreter you should know that it doesn't accept the proper spelling of the Liquefy instruction. You have to use Liquify IIRC.
15:05:08 <kipple> that gave me lots of trouble till I figured it out (the error messages wasn't very helpful)
15:05:58 <Robdgreat> well if that's still the case, I might be subject to go in and fix it in the module
15:06:15 <Robdgreat> but I was planning on writing an interpreter in php
15:07:54 <kipple> the perl interpreter is also _extremely_ inefficient when using Auxillary recipes, so if manage to do that better, it will be the best interpreter out there :)
15:08:07 <Robdgreat> that's what Gregor was talking about, then
15:08:14 <Robdgreat> said the interpreter is really slow
15:09:07 <kipple> I made two versions of my 99 bottles of beer program. the on using auxillary recipes took about 45 minutes on my 187MHz linux box.
15:09:19 <kipple> The one without used "only" 5 mins....
15:10:39 <kipple> the reason is that each time you call an auxillary recipe ALL the stacks are copied
15:12:23 <Robdgreat> well my goal is to find a better way
15:13:13 <kipple> the main problem is that that's how the spec is
15:13:26 <kipple> but it have to be possible to do it more efficient
15:15:44 <Robdgreat> http://www.mit.edu/~puzzle/02/round2/05/1183
15:16:19 <Robdgreat> I think I'm going to pick some relatively lesser-known langs and showcase them on my site
15:27:04 <Robdgreat> hm the solution says it's smurf, but it doesn't look like smurf
15:28:16 <kipple> none of the Smurf links in the wiki works :(
15:38:51 <Robdgreat> http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s973431/smurf_pl.html
15:45:18 <Robdgreat> http://www.zxdemo.org/muriel/smurf.txt
15:51:12 <Robdgreat> now mirrored at http://esoteric.thepaddedcell.org/smurf
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16:15:11 <wildhalcyon> Rob, smurf is one of my all-time favorite languages
16:15:51 <Robdgreat> well the links to the info for it are inaccurate on the wiki
16:16:01 <wildhalcyon> I wish it had more of a standardized arithmetic
16:16:05 <Robdgreat> guy took the site down and then moved it
16:16:12 <Robdgreat> I had to do some detective work to track it down
16:16:22 <wildhalcyon> Hmmm, that was the original site, it was up for a long time
16:16:40 <wildhalcyon> you coulda asked me ;-) I've got the specs for a few languages stored locally
16:17:48 <Robdgreat> well now I have it stored on my site
16:20:13 <Robdgreat> wonder if you could make a list of the specs you have
16:32:43 <wildhalcyon> Sure, I'll do that this afternoon when I get home
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18:12:00 <Keymaker> too bad quine is impossible in it
18:42:14 <jix> i'm going to write a german eso lange
18:42:29 <jix> i don't have a good idea
18:42:40 <Keymaker> the whole language is esoteric already
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18:51:33 <graue> Robdgreat: your SMURF mirror is misconfigured
18:51:50 <graue> Robdgreat: if I try to view the smurf.pl file, instead of showing it to me, it tries to execute it, returning a 500 Internal Server Error
18:52:16 <graue> also, all the SMURF stuff is now in the esoteric file archive, and will be showing up there soon
18:52:56 <graue> Keymaker: figure out how to do anything fun in PROLAN/M yet?
18:53:28 <Keymaker> but haven't had anything done yet
18:53:36 <Keymaker> perhaps digital root calculator.. :D
18:53:40 <graue> apparently I'm just barely smart enough to write an interpreter for the language, and not enough to write anything interesting in it
18:54:25 <graue> the IOI'90 paper describing it suggests you write a program that takes a string of the form "<nr1>+<nr2>=?" and outputs "<nr1>+<nr2>=<nr3>" where all the nrs are natural numbers, and nr3 is the sum of nr1 and nr2
18:54:50 <graue> I have yet to figure out how that's even possible
18:55:17 <Keymaker> considering there's no output character, it's very hard
18:55:18 <graue> I guess first you replace "0=?" with something, and so on?
18:55:53 <Keymaker> i guess one first feeds it some data "11+11=22"
18:56:04 <graue> no, the data you'd feed it would be "11+11=?"
18:56:22 <Keymaker> i was thinking the other and writing the other
18:56:32 <Keymaker> and the final output is "11+11=22"
18:57:16 <Keymaker> only way to do it is the have some internal structure in the program that will be removed before ending the program
18:57:44 <Keymaker> by the way, if there's for example data "aaaaa" and you execute instruction (a,b), does it execute it 5 times?
18:57:52 <graue> and use the knowledge that "=?" will only be there at the beginning
18:58:00 <graue> no, it only makes one replacement per rule execution
18:58:19 <graue> perhaps you can clarify that on the wiki article
19:00:19 <graue> the original Muriel pages seem to be gone (they're not at the new URL where Smurf is)...
19:01:45 <Keymaker> in the c interpreter, do i give the input string as file or just write it there?
19:02:05 <graue> just write it there, it's "prolan-m [sourcefile] [inputstring]"
19:02:12 <graue> quote it if it has spaces
19:06:18 <Keymaker> hmm. there probably can't be any initial data if the program gets input?
19:08:14 <graue> there can't be any initial data other than the input string, right
19:08:33 <Keymaker> except when using (,something)
19:08:38 <Keymaker> but that isn't kind of initial
19:09:11 <graue> the replaced string has to be nonempty
19:09:17 <graue> (something,) on the other hand is allowed, though
19:09:55 <graue> I'm going to write a hello world program
19:10:53 <graue> well, I'll assume the input string only contains ASCII printable characters besides ',' and ')'; spaces; and newlines
19:11:04 <graue> then I'll replace each of those characters with a's, except for 'a'
19:11:08 <graue> then I'll replace 'aa' with 'a'
19:11:13 <graue> then I'll replace 'a' with 'hello, world!'
19:11:43 <Keymaker> but there's no way to make real programs without input..
19:11:54 <Keymaker> this language is input-dependable
19:12:04 <graue> I guess my program won't work if the input string is empty :)
19:14:53 <Keymaker> i wonder why the left can't be empty--
19:15:43 <Keymaker> ..probably because there is the ending thing (,)
19:16:36 <Keymaker> well, 99 bottles of beer program could just assume user to input "99" :)
19:17:03 <graue> hey, yeah, and it becomes a 131072 bottles of beer program if you input "131072"
19:17:04 <Keymaker> can one print a new-line, btw?
19:17:15 <graue> of course, just like any other character in the final string
19:17:47 <Keymaker> but printing ')' isn't possible, right?
19:18:07 <graue> unless they appear in the input string, in which case, they are stuck there and cannot be changed
19:18:07 <Keymaker> but how do you make it print a new-line?
19:22:37 <graue> the matched and replaced string are specifically defined as containing any ASCII character other than ',' and ')'
19:22:43 <graue> they can contain '(', though
19:28:55 <graue> I am dumb and my way of printing "hello world!" does not work
19:29:09 <graue> in fact, I have to assume that the input string does not contain h, e, l, o, w, r, d, space, or exclamation mark
19:31:49 <graue> now it works as long as the input doesn't contain any of that stuff
19:35:11 <Keymaker> some things are simpler than in thue because this language executes every time stuff from top to bottom, right?
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19:36:20 <wildhalcyon> Its been too long since I've programmed in a conventional language...
19:37:05 <wildhalcyon> Seriously! I can barely get this stupid glypho interpreter off the ground. Keep having to refer to my C book...
19:37:20 <wildhalcyon> "How do I open files again?.. hmm.. that makes no sense"
19:38:03 <Keymaker> before doing my brainfuck/c polyglot quine i couldn't use printf..
19:38:57 <wildhalcyon> I want the command line to be "glypho file.gly", that's it. Nothing fancy. Im working on the stack, that's not too hard...
19:38:58 <GregorR> FILE *a = fopen(filename, "r"/"w");
19:39:07 <GregorR> if (!a) { perror(filename); exit(1); }
19:39:31 <wildhalcyon> right, but that still entails looking at the command line crap. I hate all that...
19:39:48 * GregorR gives C a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig hug.
19:40:41 <wildhalcyon> I like see too, but its been so long gregor. I mean.. YEARS since Ive done a serious project in it. By serious I mean more than 5-20 lines long
19:42:24 <GregorR> It prints out a handy string of the error that last occurred.
19:44:54 <GregorR> For most syscalls you would use the name of the syscall, but for ones that take files it's generally more useful to use the filename.
19:45:02 <GregorR> Then it will say something like "a.out: file not found"
19:45:16 <Keymaker> btw, any other term for "erroristic behaviour"
19:45:32 <GregorR> Well, erroristic isn't a word, soooo
19:46:06 <GregorR> I'm just not sure what you mean, error-prone or behaviour that happens when there's an error?
19:46:39 <Keymaker> i mean like there may happen stuff that isn't controlled or defined or something
19:47:15 <Keymaker> i guess "undefined behaviour" could suffice
19:51:06 * wildhalcyon copying format from spoon.c - spoon is cool, also a good inspiration for glypho
19:51:23 <wildhalcyon> the only reason Im making a glypho interpreter is so people can try it out and give me time to work on my new esolang
19:51:46 <wildhalcyon> I love glypho a lot, and I'd like to develop more for it once I've got my REAL esolang out of the way (glypho was just meant to be a pet project)
19:53:10 <jix> wildhalcyon: what about e[ and e] ?
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19:54:06 <wildhalcyon> unless I come up with something really concrete... Im gonna just make it an error
19:54:57 <jix> e[ is read one source char an move right in the source file and e] is move left in the source file
19:55:10 <jix> makes it symbol dependet
19:55:43 <jix> my idea is bad
19:55:59 <wildhalcyon> a lot of glypho is bad. Dont blame yourself
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20:00:12 <wildhalcyon> so far I've got it to read in from the file... now I'm working on the translation and interpretation instructions
20:00:18 <wildhalcyon> interpretation will most likely take the longest...
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20:16:05 <graue> let's have a race where I try and implement glypho before you do
20:17:36 <wildhalcyon> graue, you'll win.. although Im working on it
20:19:53 <jix> and i try the same thing
20:20:03 <jix> but i have to do other things first
20:20:21 <graue> then we can see whose implementation is the fastest
20:20:26 <graue> anyone written mandelbrot in glypho yet?
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20:26:10 <graue> still working on that 99bob, Keymaker?
20:27:01 <Keymaker> making it in these kind of languages requires planning
20:27:07 <Keymaker> and i'm too lazy for that noew
20:28:59 <wildhalcyon> I haven't done it in glypho yet... characters in glypho are pretty difficult though. the 99.. part is easy
20:31:30 <wildhalcyon> 99[ddo" bottles of beer on the wall,"o" bottles of beer.\nTake one down, pass it around,\n"1-+" bottles of beer on the wall.\n\n"]
20:31:50 <wildhalcyon> everything in quotes is supposed to be outputting the ASCII values for those numbers
20:32:31 <wildhalcyon> A little more complicated if I need to output the ASCII for '99'
20:36:09 <Robdgreat> I mirrored and then had to leave, didn't even get a chance to try it
20:42:14 <graue> do we know if Glypho is Turing-complete?
20:43:08 <wildhalcyon> I think we showed it by being able to emulate bf.
20:43:15 <wildhalcyon> I haven't written a bf interpreter yet, but it shouldn't be difficult
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23:37:54 <wildhalcyon_> Im not sure. Somtimes windows thinks its a driver error, but Ive updated drivers for everything I have
23:38:45 <wildhalcyon_> ubuntu thinks it might possibly be able to solve the problem, but until I can get a working CD burner, I'll be waiting.
23:41:44 <calamari> nope, arizona.. really gone this time :)
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01:46:36 <kipple> just finished my Glypho interpreter :D
01:47:54 <graue> what language is it written in?
01:49:10 <graue> because gcj does not work correctly here
01:50:15 <kipple> then I can't compile it for you either (debian)
01:50:43 <graue> maybe you could make .o files for me to link
01:51:11 <graue> except not because I would have to link with libgcj or whatever, so that won't work
01:51:46 <kipple> what's wrong with your gcj?
01:52:31 <kipple> was it you that wasn't able to run java applets either?
01:52:37 <graue> can't find libgcj.spec
01:59:07 <kipple> anyway, the url is http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/Glypho0.2.zip
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02:22:19 <graue> how goes that glypho interpreter of yours?
02:32:57 <wildhalcyon> I already had to start it over once b/c I didn't save and my computer froze
02:34:50 <graue> I'll be honest with you, I personally cannot imagine how that might possibly happen
02:35:08 <graue> I always save after everything I do, it's a reflex
02:35:16 <graue> if I am not typing, the editor should not say "Modified"
02:35:34 <graue> my old days of not saving constantly are so far behind, I can barely remember them
02:35:56 <graue> anyway, good or possibly bad news: kipple made a Glypho interpreter in Java, and it is done
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02:52:56 <calamari> graue: to fix gcj: install the package libgcj-dev
03:01:09 <graue> openbsd has no package by that name
03:02:16 <graue> I'm not on debian, "-dev" packages are just a debian thing, aren't they?
03:03:13 <calamari> yeah that was a debian package
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03:05:15 <graue> I'll be able to use gcj when my laptop running ubuntu returns to me, next wednesday
03:06:35 * calamari got some cdr's.. now I can back up all my junk and upgrade to breezy
03:06:43 <graue> did they release that?
03:07:02 <graue> but the upgrade is treacherous enough as to require a backup?
03:07:15 <calamari> no idea, but warty -> hoary was bad
03:07:52 <calamari> I still have a bunch of icons on my desktop that I haven't put into the menu
03:08:00 <graue> oh well, all the important stuff on my laptop was backed up already anyway
03:10:28 <calamari> I've put it on my site http://kidsquid.com/libgcj.spec
03:11:46 <calamari> I'm curious if that's all you need to make it work
03:21:02 <graue> the gcj executable is called "egcj" for some reason
03:21:51 <graue> I now get errors about java.lang and java.io not being found
03:24:05 <graue> check the CLASSPATH environment variable, but it's empty
03:25:35 <calamari> I have no CLASSPATH environment variable set
03:25:59 <graue> I don't even have the classes or whatever on here though, and no clue how I'm supposed to get them
03:30:00 <calamari> I have the packages libgcj, libgcj-awt, and libgcj-common installed
03:30:51 <calamari> actually libgcj-common has the jar
03:31:04 <calamari> (which is where the class files are)
03:31:17 <calamari> dunno if you have something similar in openbsd
03:31:42 <graue> there ain't no gcj-related packages here except one, gcj-3.4-20050225
03:32:22 <graue> however, if the class files I need are in a jar file, then they are in that java virtual machine form, and you could just send me the jar file, right?
03:33:57 <calamari> the file is /usr/share/java/libgcj-3.4.2.jar
03:34:50 <graue> wait a second, what is kaffe?
03:35:02 <graue> I have some jar files in a /usr/local/share/kaffe directory for some reason
03:35:53 <graue> can I use its jar files for java.lang and such?
03:36:28 <graue> I wonder what they are for in that case
03:36:29 <calamari> I think hey are still trying to standardize that so eventually yes
03:36:46 <calamari> there were a couple different classpath projects and they are merging
03:44:46 <graue> ok, now I'm getting weird errors inside the jar file you sent me
03:45:10 <graue> like "verification error at PC=45" at ObjectInputStream.java:1257
03:45:34 <graue> and on the same line, "loading local variable 6 which has unknown type"
03:46:08 <graue> I couldn't figure out how to make it find the jar file, so I just did "egcj /usr/local/share/java/libgcj-3.4.2.jar *.java -o glypho --main=Glypho"
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13:54:03 <jix> kipple: did you write the java glypho interpreter?
13:54:46 <kipple> use at your own risk :) it's not properly tested...
13:55:22 <jix> i wrote a ruby one
13:55:37 <jix> what does your java interpreter do when i try to exec [ or ] ?
13:55:56 <kipple> Hmm. good question. didn't think of that.
13:56:05 <kipple> I suspect it crashes...
13:56:20 <jix> my has 2 extra instruction added
13:56:57 <jix> but i'm not sure whether its a good idea
13:57:23 <jix> i added one because i needed it for a program but then i rewrote the program without using it
13:57:29 <jix> it's bitshift right 1
13:57:40 <jix> much faster than using loops
13:58:52 <jix> and i added a comments feature in gsh (X this is comment X) this not (X this is (X This too X) This not
13:59:33 <jix> and the spec is missing the pop order for the e instruction
13:59:52 <jix> i implemented it by first char is popped first
14:00:08 <kipple> yeah, I asked wildhalcyon about that
14:00:39 <kipple> so, your interpreter takes shorthand notation too now?
14:00:49 <jix> it takes both
14:01:31 <jix> mine uses unicode for non gsh
14:03:05 <jix> now it supports utf-8 or any 1byte/char format
14:03:21 <jix> it supports stripping of whitespace
14:03:29 <jix> (optional)
14:04:08 <jix> and 2 debug calls in gsh (& for stack print and ` for interactive debugging shell using ruby breakpoint)
14:04:42 <kipple> I originally only intended to make a shorthand interpreter, but because of the e instruction I hade to interpret patterns anyway.
14:04:52 <kipple> hehe. I also use & for stack dumps :)
14:04:58 <jix> thats why i used it
14:05:33 <kipple> my interpreter is a rewrite of my kipple interpreter, so that's where it comes from.
14:05:34 <jix> and my interpreter uses cool jit compiling technologies (called eval ;) )
14:06:19 <jix> a glypho compiler could do a LOT of optimizations
14:08:39 <jix> i'm working on a bf => glypho mapping as a TC prove
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15:13:56 <jix> wrong button...
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16:13:20 <jix> wildhalcyon i have ideas for e[ and e]
16:13:44 <jix> e[ = bitshift right 1
16:13:59 <jix> e] = push compare(pop,pop)
16:14:28 <jix> compare(a,b) => a<b = -1; a==b = 0; a>b = 1
16:17:17 <jix> or wildhalcyon_
16:18:31 <jix> it is handy
16:18:37 <jix> and awfull slow using loops
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17:36:17 <jix> i hate reading texts that i don't understand in the first reading pass
17:39:53 <jix> one shouldn't try to explain computer algorithms using math terms
17:40:20 <jix> one should use commented c (or c a-like pseudo code)
17:41:55 <jix> i'm reading a document about implementing a fast bwt
17:42:40 <wildhalcyon> I say: If you can't say it in ascii, it aint worth sayin at all
17:43:11 <jix> what about german umlauts in german texts?
17:44:00 <wildhalcyon> Okay, well.. I meant more or less for english trying to explain math terms
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07:42:14 <GregorR> lol, I confused my alter ego :P
07:54:08 <nooga> im trying to compile some shit
07:54:23 <nooga> i've got 2 linker errors for 2 days
07:54:32 <nooga> and i can't manage myself
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00:15:58 <wildhalcyon> or morning, depending on your point of view
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05:49:12 <GregorR> WORD GEE WUT UP IN DA HIZZLE?!?!?
05:51:10 <GregorR> YO WHY U BE HIDIN' FROM DA AOL N00B TOK?!?!
05:51:41 * Robdgreat covers his face and closes his eyes tightly.
05:51:57 <Robdgreat> tell me when the bad people are gone
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05:53:39 <Mommy> Ssssssshhh, beddy-bie time
05:53:54 <Mommy> The pad people are only online.
05:54:02 <GregorR> YO BITCH WHY U BE FRONIN'?!??!?!?!?!
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05:57:22 <Robdgreat> phase 1 of my chef interpreter is coming along nicely
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12:31:28 <Keymaker> anyone got link to that internet befunge-93 interpreter that was visual and made with flash iirc
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17:06:45 <sekhmet> What exactly does "re" abbreviate, anyway?
17:07:02 <sekhmet> I figure it's something German. You and your LANGUAGES.
17:07:45 <sekhmet> Hm, urbandictionary.com says French.
17:08:01 <lindi-> sekhmet: latin word 'res' (thing, event) in ablative is 're'
17:09:40 <sekhmet> Now I've gotta go look up "ablative." You and your LANGUAGES.
17:09:55 <lindi-> sekhmet: latin ablative has very many meanings
17:10:11 <jix> re == re-hi == hi again
17:10:31 <lindi-> sekhmet: but in this case "re foo" means more or less "about thing called foo"
17:11:11 <sekhmet> lindi-: Ah, well I'm familiar with *that* usage of it. I was more referring to the usage which seems to indicate just saying "Hi."
17:11:32 <lindi-> sekhmet: oh, that one :)
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23:43:40 <GregorR> Oh man, I haven't had a Moxie all weekend :)
23:43:42 <GregorR> Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo gooooooooooooooooood
00:05:02 <calamari> thanks for registering my trademark :)
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00:12:29 <GregorR> calamari: There was no (r) symbol there ...
00:14:02 <kipple> on my screen the character before the . was a (r) symbol
00:14:36 <kipple> That's an A with a ~ on top + a (r)
00:14:56 <GregorR> You don't have UTF8 it seems.
00:15:14 <kipple> propbably my iRC client
00:15:31 <kipple> the (r) became a (c) :D
00:16:08 * calamari never remembers to turn on utf8
00:16:36 <GregorR> lol, competing charsets :P
00:16:53 <calamari> paste the original again, I'm curious to see it now
00:18:56 <calamari> that's okay.. I am an American, so I must promote English as a world language ;)
00:21:03 <calamari> I should get some work done.. been fooling around with the ubuntu upgrade all day
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01:00:09 <graue> I wrote a probabilistic brainfuck interpreter, but it turned out to be totally useless
01:00:28 <graue> (whereas if it had worked, it would have been the most useful thing in the world, of course)
01:01:37 <graue> it represents each data cell using 1-7 bits, but simulates having 256 distinct values by incrementing and decrementing probabilistically, so that after n increments, the expected value is n greater than the value represented before
01:01:58 <graue> that behavior does not work well with the [ instruction, though
01:02:14 <graue> so I briefly considered modifying the language to make this scheme work better, but soon lost interest
01:27:25 <kipple> Anyone familiar with var'aq here?
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04:04:41 <lament> graue: hmm... i don't get it :)
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04:24:35 <graue> lament: suppose you have an integer variable that holds a value from 0 to n-1, thus it has a range of n values
04:25:01 <graue> each time you increment it, you increment it by rand()%2, and you decrement by that amount as well
04:25:15 <graue> and you treat the variable as though it holds twice the value it actually holds, when using it
04:25:26 <graue> now you have a range of 2n values
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05:01:18 <GregorR> I wrote a BF interpreter to evolve programs, and just let it go, and then it took all my hard disk space and processor, and I had to hard reboot :P
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05:01:30 <GregorR> It came out SOMETHING like while (1) fork();
05:41:42 <calamari> sounds like i got the evolution idea down pat
07:27:31 <GregorR> Part of the problem is that the "individuals" grew in a uniform environment.
07:28:02 <GregorR> With the only selection being how often it runs the ! command, the only evolution is production of the most parasitic possible lifeform :P
07:36:28 <Robdgreat> like that neighbor who's always borrowing your stuff
07:43:33 <GregorR> I should base it on FYB instead, so it supports interaction.
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13:17:51 <kipple> any opinions on whether or not it's TC?
13:19:31 <Keymaker> not sure. i haven't yet figured out how to add new stuff to the queue (any other way than receiving input)
13:20:50 <kipple> the only qdeql program I've ever seen is the hello world on the wiki. Haven't seen anything slightly complex
13:21:01 <Keymaker> there isn't anything very complex, yes
13:21:10 <Keymaker> along with the interpreter there comes some small stuff
13:21:17 <Keymaker> but i haven't looked at them yet
13:21:27 <Keymaker> there's some cat and some loop thing
13:21:54 <kipple> looks like the \ operator is the only one that actually adds new values to the queue without reading from input
13:23:00 <Keymaker> although there's no way to remove stuff, right?
13:24:00 <kipple> wait, I think the \ strikes again :)
13:24:39 <kipple> if the dequeued byt is zero it isn't enqueued again
13:25:24 <kipple> hmm. the hello world program starts with a -
13:25:35 <kipple> does that mean the queue doesn't start out empty?
13:25:57 <Keymaker> "Dequeueing produces 0 if the queue is empty."
13:26:27 <Keymaker> i'll try to get a quine done today
13:26:31 <kipple> and, yes. It's pretty insane (which is a compliment naturally)
13:26:55 <Keymaker> so, now i'll just examine the looping a bit and then start the work
13:36:22 <Keymaker> i don't think this language is turing complete
13:36:28 <Keymaker> or well, most probably i'm wrong, but still..
13:41:06 <kipple> well, good luck with the quine! :)
13:42:26 <Keymaker> i'm starting to feel it's not as easy as i imagined
13:44:28 <Keymaker> it seems to be an example how to make a loop..
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14:07:01 * nooga decided to write a compiler for huge language
14:08:02 <nooga> i think i should register that project at sourceforge
14:08:10 <nooga> and get some guys for help :>
14:09:57 <nooga> something very simmilar to LUA in it's principles
14:10:49 <nooga> but with C style syntax
14:11:01 <nooga> ... and with some tricks from perl
14:11:47 <nooga> and i guess it will have some elements supproting OOP
14:13:32 * nooga knows that sound riddiculous
14:19:56 <Keymaker> like, you make up the language?
14:21:35 <kipple> and more importantly: is it esoteric? ;)
14:25:51 <nooga> t's new, i'm the designer
14:27:49 <Keymaker> i've once thought about creating a new language, but didn't get anything done
14:31:22 <nooga> i'm going to beat up lua :>
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15:10:13 <kipple> creating a successful non-esoteric language is probably way harder than writing a qdeql-quine...
15:13:44 <Keymaker> i'll eat gregor's whole collection of hats if this language is turing complete -- or if someone manages to write brainfuck interpreter in it
15:14:16 <GregorR> Hey, you can't just eat my whole collection of hats without permission :P
15:14:18 <kipple> not sure if Gregor would approve though
15:14:42 <GregorR> You can eat my rather old, beaten up grey fedora :P
15:15:00 <GregorR> I need to get a new one anyway.
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15:45:20 <Keymaker> sorry, i won't get that quine done, not at all
15:45:43 <Keymaker> not even sure if it's possible
16:20:46 <nooga> a quine in what? :>
16:27:33 <nooga> maybe try in SADOL to relief yourself
16:28:36 <Keymaker> maybe after getting one other program done in qdeql.. :)
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17:01:58 <Keymaker> it'd help if qdeql interpreter could print out the memory state after executing program..
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17:48:19 <jix> how does befunge handle eof?
18:09:38 <Keymaker> iirc that's not mentioned in the spec
18:11:12 <jix> i hate undefined eof behavior
18:15:39 <jix> handling binary data
18:16:30 <jix> or any other language that supports div
18:17:09 <Keymaker> well, all turing complete languages support it :D
18:17:28 <jix> yes but not all have a div instruction
18:17:46 <Keymaker> what you're doing, by the way?
18:47:35 <jix> compression algorithm
18:51:48 <jix> i'm going to use... WHITESPACE
18:52:09 <jix> oh forgot to check eof handling there ^^
19:00:07 <Keymaker> bye, i'll be probably back later today..
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21:46:49 <kipple> I hate windows networking
21:58:18 <kipple> hmm. lots of spamming on the wiki today >:-(
21:58:47 <jix> i found an old (befunge alike) esolang written by me (my first esolang)
21:59:59 <jix> 1 year (i'm using esolangs for about a year now)
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22:44:55 <GregorR> Well, I slaughtered my laptop with my evolving BF again.
22:45:02 <GregorR> I need to make in not fork() :)
22:46:54 <GregorR> I tried to make it detect if the usecs on the clock is below 100000 before doing any real computation, so that it would essentially force itself to only run within the first tenth of every second, but I missed some :P
22:47:21 <GregorR> Plus, they still get alotted time, so 9999 forks will slow down a system a lot even if they just immediately give up control :P
22:50:11 <kipple> so, what are you evolving?
22:50:44 <GregorR> Well, I have a spec that's basically BF + a few new commands, most notably "breed"
22:51:02 <GregorR> The breed command copies the program, then randomly mutates the new one, and forks a process for the new one.
22:51:29 <GregorR> Unfortunately, because there's no environment and no interaction, there is no evolution (selection = important factor)
22:51:33 <GregorR> So really, it's just silly mutation.
22:51:54 <GregorR> I'm working on one where programs can modify other programs, thus adding a bit of competiton / selection.
22:52:04 <GregorR> I don't think I can really make an environment for BF programs however ;)
22:58:20 <Robdgreat> ok so you're forking exponentially, and expecting it not to eat your comp for lunch?
22:58:50 <GregorR> It's not /quite/ forking exponentially.
22:59:11 <GregorR> In fact, I started with just a breed command, so, if it had not evolved another, it would have only had a max of 2 procs at a time.
22:59:19 <GregorR> But then another one randomly appeared.
22:59:26 <GregorR> And suddenly, my computer was not responding so well 8-D
23:00:46 <Robdgreat> you've written languages. That's more than I can say for me
23:01:13 <GregorR> According to Wikipedia, Neanderthals had a higher pitched and more nasal voice than humans.
23:01:22 <GregorR> So, Neanderthals were the nerdiest of hunter-gatherers.
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23:07:14 <kipple> but they were also less intelligent and physically stronger. that does not fit in with your theory :)
23:08:41 <kipple> wow. this is interesting: "2005: The Max-Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology launches a project to reconstruct the Neanderthal genome."
23:09:30 <kipple> I wonder who gets to be the lucky surrogate mother :D
23:10:05 * kipple ponders what a programming language for neanderthals would look like
23:13:54 <GregorR> Neanderthals had bigger brains.
23:14:01 <GregorR> In all likelihood they were /more/ intelligent.
23:14:28 <kipple> they did? well, bigger doesn't necessarily mean smarter, but what do I know
23:15:03 <GregorR> In the hominid line of evolution, intelligence has been measured basically as the ratio of brain size to body size - neanderthals had the largest, seconded by us.
23:15:24 <Robdgreat> kinda makes you wonder why they're not still around
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01:45:34 <Robdgreat> *now* I find a python chef interpreter
01:45:46 <Robdgreat> after fighting with perl for a week
01:54:06 <kipple> IIRC the python interpreter lacks several features
02:00:06 <Robdgreat> it's missing an instruction and has issues with loops
02:00:26 <kipple> I think it's missing sous-chefs as well
02:05:37 <Robdgreat> considering I don't really know python
02:09:37 <kipple> well, if you're writing your own, you don't need it
02:12:04 <kipple> what language are you writing in it then?
02:20:48 <GregorR> Come oooooooooooon, say Brainfuck ;)
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04:15:27 <lament> i've been thinking of a bot in this channel
04:15:32 <lament> that would interpret some esolang
04:15:55 <lament> to make it in any way useful, the esolang would either have to be REALLY terse
04:16:12 <lament> or have functions which users could define
04:16:26 <lament> i was thinking, pure lambda calculus?
04:16:49 <lament> it would be pretty neat, if it could accept definitions from users
04:16:57 <lament> it could start with nothing and evolve into a fairly useable system
04:17:17 <lament> Joy or a Joy-like language would be another neat alternative
04:17:45 <GregorR> I would just keep in mind that this could easily be a "hmm, I wonder if I could hack that bot" channel, so watch for injections ;)
04:18:15 <lament> but that only makes it more interesting
04:18:20 <lament> (to have a bot that would accept definitions)
04:18:32 <lament> alternatively, any ideas for a terse language?
04:18:41 <lament> perl wouldn't be so bad, but it's not esoteric enough.
04:18:53 <lament> bf isn't terse at all.
04:19:09 <lament> i think False is supposed to be terse
04:19:42 <lament> still i kinda like the lambda calculus idea.
04:22:02 <GregorR> I'm having troubles getting my EvoBF creatures rolling :P
04:22:17 <GregorR> (Which is really quite dissimilar to BF at this point, but we'll ignore that)
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05:41:24 <lament> i just had a look at false
05:41:26 <lament> i think it's quite decent
05:41:48 <lament> in terms of being terse
05:42:01 <lament> prime numbers between 0 and 100:
05:42:02 <lament> 99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
05:43:10 <lament> it's kind of a primitive Joy
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05:59:31 <lament> you know what sucks? IRC.
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06:08:36 * lament now writes a False interpreter
06:44:52 <lament> stupid false uses non-ascii symbols for stuff
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06:53:45 <calamari> mental failure or brain not ready.. insert meds and press head into pillow to continue
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06:55:40 <lament> okay now help me debug it :)
06:59:35 <lament> of course it can't even detect infinite loops yet
06:59:40 <lament> which will make it crash rather quickly
06:59:51 <lament> but i'm sure it has other errors as well!
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07:00:32 <lament> not bad for an hour of work :)
07:00:56 <lament> "no text to send", which is correct
07:01:47 <lament> !12=["The universe imploded"]?
07:03:06 <lament> i'm just used to befunge.
07:03:15 <lament> 12 is a single number, not two numbers.
07:03:21 <lament> !1 2=["The universe imploded"]?
07:03:31 <lament> !1 1=["The universe imploded"]?
07:03:42 <lament> "No text to send", which is wrong.
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07:10:53 <lament> man, false is pretty fun
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07:11:30 <lament> !1 1=["I always knew this!"]?
07:13:40 -!- esobot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:13:54 <lament> man, why does it always take so long for the beast to rejoin.
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07:16:21 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:4f.
07:16:54 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:4f!.
07:17:07 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:4f;!.
07:17:12 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:5f;!.
07:17:15 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:6f;!.
07:17:18 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:7f;!.
07:17:23 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:8f;!.
07:17:28 <lament> ![$1=~[$1-f;!*]?]f:15f;!.
07:18:04 <lament> !99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
07:18:30 <lament> that should have worked.
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07:27:57 <lament> !0'h'e'l'l'o[$0=~][,]#
07:28:56 <lament> !99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
07:30:47 <lament> !["ain"]s:"the r"s;!" in sp"s;!" falls m"s;!"ly on a p"s;!
07:30:48 <esobot> the rain in spain falls mainly on a pain
07:30:54 <lament> !["ain"]s:"the r"s;!" in sp"s;!" falls m"s;!"ly on a pl"s;!
07:30:54 <esobot> the rain in spain falls mainly on a plain
07:31:27 <lament> truth, beauty and all that jazz.
07:33:30 <lament> where's aardappel anyway
07:33:55 <lament> i'm going to sleep soon
07:34:00 <lament> i'll leave esobot running
07:34:12 <lament> however, it WILL get stuck and die if you give it an endless loop
07:35:10 <lament> this ought to kill my computer
07:36:01 <lament> yep it's killing my computer but slowly
07:36:29 <lament> but eventually it'll run out of memory and OS will kill Python
07:36:45 <lament> which is now dead anyway.
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07:38:17 <GregorR> !"/me wonders if there are any injection bugs here ;)"
07:38:17 <esobot> /me wonders if there are any injection bugs here ;)
07:38:32 <GregorR> !"/me wonders if there are any injection bugs here\0"
07:38:32 <esobot> /me wonders if there are any injection bugs here\0
07:40:57 <lament> documentation is at http://wouter.fov120.com/false/false.txt
07:41:00 <GregorR> Every attempt at my evolving programs ends up with one species overconsuming and dying out >_<
07:41:05 <lament> note that esobot doesn't support input.
07:41:26 <lament> and output is always buffered, for now.
07:41:35 <lament> (which is really stupid and i will have to change it somehow)
07:42:49 <lament> by the way for those who don't know
07:42:57 <lament> false is the first modern esolang
07:43:09 <lament> it has inspired brainfuck and befunge
07:45:16 <lament> !["'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'[,34,$!34,'],!
07:45:16 <esobot> ["'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'[,34,$!34,'],!
07:48:14 <lament> !["'!,'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'!,'[,34,$!34,'],!
07:48:14 <esobot> !["'!,'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'!,'[,34,$!34,'],!
07:48:22 <lament> a quine, corrected for the exclamation mark :)
07:48:39 <lament> (which is not a False instruction, of course)
07:48:57 <lament> GregorR: the "Hello" is outside quotation marks
07:49:03 <lament> GregorR: it puts a bunch of crud onto the stack
07:49:47 <lament> (this is not part of the language specification)
07:50:00 <lament> (i.e. this behaviour can change at any time. but for now it's this way)
07:51:00 <lament> i guess the original false interpreter would instead of "olleh" write the addresses of the global variables o,l,l,e,h
07:52:25 <lament> but it doesn't really matter.
07:52:35 <lament> as it's undefined behaviour anyway.
07:58:28 <lament> do play with esobot :)
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15:39:23 <kipple> what triggers the esobot? does it try to interpret all messages as false programs?
15:41:17 <lament> the exclamation mark triggers it.
15:41:22 <lament> It's not part of the False program.
15:41:53 * kipple goes to the grocery store
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16:07:06 <jix> does it use the amiga or the portable instructions (ß and ø or ...)
16:09:03 <jix> !99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#.
16:09:49 <jix> ah i thought the . is important
16:11:38 <jix> ah . is a instruction
16:13:36 <jix> !10,"JOIN #testchan"
16:13:47 <jix> !10,"PART #testchan"
16:13:55 <jix> it works ^^
16:14:14 <jix> !10,"JOIN #testchan"
16:15:02 <jix> !10,"PRIVMSG Keymaker :Hi!"
16:15:31 <jix> who wrote esobot?
16:15:59 <jix> !10,"PRIVMSG jix :Test"
16:16:17 <jix> !10,"PRIVMSG #testchan :Test"
16:16:42 <jix> ah he is unregistered => no privmsgs allowed
16:20:46 <Keymaker> jix; know any good chef interpreter?
16:32:54 <jix> !1,"ACTION test"1,
16:33:02 <jix> !1,"ACTION is buggy"1,
16:37:55 <jix> !10,"PART #testchan"
16:38:04 <jix> !10,"JOIN #testchan2"
16:38:38 <jix> !10,"KICK #testchan2 jix"
16:41:11 <jix> i could write a program that joins #feds or some other important official channel and starts flooding... MUAHAHHAAHA
16:42:14 <Keymaker> and lament would get into trouble because it's his bot, right? :)
16:42:28 <jix> uhm.. dunno but.. yes?
16:42:33 <jix> np: Metallica - Am I Evil (bonus track) [ Kill 'Em All ]
16:42:42 <jix> am i evil -- yes i am!
16:43:02 <jix> hrhr no i'm not going to do that
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17:13:12 <kipple> Keymaker: the best chef interpreter is probably the perl interpreter
17:32:35 <Keymaker> hmm.. i have no idea how to run any perl stuff
17:36:27 <kipple> just install perl (if you haven't got it already) and run "chef.pl hello.chef"
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17:42:47 <Keymaker> is there any list of vegetables and fruits?
17:42:54 <Keymaker> i'd need them in my chef program..
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18:23:40 <Keymaker> kipple: the esowiki mentions "Note: is not completely in accordance with the specification." about the chef perl interpreter.. any idea what there is different?
18:24:14 <kipple> it doesn't accept the proper spelling of liquefy
18:24:30 <kipple> I think there might be something else too, but I'm not sure
18:25:08 <kipple> or alter the interpreter
18:28:24 <Keymaker> i just use 'liquify' when writing the program, and when seeing it works, change it to 'liquefy'
18:28:58 <kipple> liquify is also valid chef, though (even though it is not valid english)
18:29:17 <kipple> what kind of program are you writing by the way?
18:29:45 <Keymaker> :) the qdeql one didn't quite got done ;)
18:29:49 * kipple is, for some reason, not surprised
18:30:30 <Keymaker> you get confused of the memory states in few minutes and aaaaaaargh
18:31:14 <Keymaker> not to mention i want to increase something, i need to decrease 255 times, and each time wrap the memory state back, so it'll look something like -===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-=== etc..
18:33:12 <grim_> seems like a candidate for making a wimpmode
18:53:25 -!- jix has joined.
18:53:45 <jix> parted accidentally and rejoined wrong channel
19:04:53 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:06:38 -!- jix has joined.
19:07:02 <jix> only the root user should be able to crash a system grr....
19:07:37 <jix> ok maybe reallocating a buffer many times until it grows over the 32bit limit is MAYBE a bad idea...
19:09:13 <jix> i was testing my source read routine for a fungoid interpreter
19:10:02 <Robdgreat> I'm still doing battle with a chef interpreter
19:10:12 <Robdgreat> thought I had the parser down but found out last night I don't
19:10:28 <jix> i thought reading 2gb of zeros is a good way to test the Out of memory msg...
19:10:48 <GregorR> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoxie :)
19:11:18 <jix> GggggggggggggggggggggregorR ??
19:11:57 <GregorR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
19:13:52 <GregorR> Doesn't look like you can.
19:14:04 <GregorR> No mention on www.moxie.info or www.realsoda.com
19:14:40 <Robdgreat> http://www.hometownfavorites.com/shop/candy_cat.asp?c=21&p=2&id=1440&newp=
19:15:12 <GregorR> Well, yeah, you could order it online :P
19:23:20 -!- mtve has joined.
20:10:45 <Keymaker> good luck with chef interpreter robdgreat
20:10:50 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
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20:24:05 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:08:23 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
21:08:30 <jix> moin wildhalcyon
21:08:50 <jix> i'm working on the interpreter for my old-new esolang
21:09:00 <jix> wildhalcyon: timezones....
21:10:01 <wildhalcyon> Over the past four days though, I think I've only spent about 90 minutes here
21:13:05 <jix> http://rafb.net/paste/results/7ZFQ0285.html << short spec of my new lang
21:13:57 <jix> it's a fungoid
21:14:25 <jix> nothing new but i designed it before i was able to program in any other esolang
21:15:51 <jix> i didn't know the befunge command set at that time and i thought a language like this shouldn't use a-zA-Z
21:16:02 <jix> and i wanted flow control in string mode
22:17:10 -!- calamari has joined.
22:57:17 <jix> interpreter seems to work
23:09:05 <jix> i love c.. it looks like an esolang
23:09:06 <jix> while((scanf("%i",&ax)<1&&(getchar(),1))&&(!feof(stdin)));
23:09:28 <jix> what does this do (i wrote it)?
23:10:10 <GregorR> While You aren't reading an integer into ax, get a character, then make sure that you don't have EOF on stdin.
23:10:49 <GregorR> That is, while there is not valid input sitting on stdin, skip a bit of it, and try to read an int again.
23:11:10 <GregorR> Now, let me put forth that while that's considered bad C, equally unreadable perl is considered good perl :P
23:12:19 <jix> why is that bad C?
23:12:29 <jix> all c code i ever saw looks like this!
23:12:59 <GregorR> The Linux kernel does not look like that, glibc does not look like that, X11 does not look like that, bash does not look like that.
23:13:18 <jix> ruby does not look like that
23:13:34 <jix> but it's an interpreter for an esolang
23:13:35 <GregorR> I have no complaints about ruby.
23:13:51 <GregorR> EgoBF sort of looks like that ;)
23:14:06 <jix> cipple looks like that
23:14:36 <GregorR> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:14:46 <GregorR> I do have discernable facial features ............
23:14:59 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/hats.php
23:15:10 -!- GregorR has left (?).
23:15:19 -!- GregorR has joined.
23:15:44 <jix> GregorR: where is the Fez?
23:15:53 <GregorR> I don't have a digital camera *sob*
23:16:13 <GregorR> They're ~$40/ea, gimme a break.
23:19:45 <GregorR> I have, there's rarely any decent hats there.
23:19:57 <GregorR> I'm thinking about getting a tricorn.
23:20:51 <jix> axo2i has exited due to signal 11 (SIGSEGV).
23:20:56 <Robdgreat> you could be a revolutionary war re-enacter, complete with Moxie
23:21:12 <GregorR> Moxie is quite old, but not that ol :P
23:21:35 <Robdgreat> I'm gonna find a store in this town that'll start stocking it
23:22:24 <GregorR> Have you actually had any? You might want to try it before trying to get it stocked ;)
23:22:34 <kipple> I thought this was a channel about esoteric languages, not esoteric soft drinks...
23:22:50 <GregorR> It's just called #esoteric, not #esolangs
23:22:58 <jix> http://www.toypur.de/images/medium/0876me.jpg << this with moxie ^^
23:23:06 -!- esobot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:25:29 -!- esobot has joined.
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23:27:10 -!- lament has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric || Welcome esobot, a False interpreter, prefix commands with a '!'.
23:27:30 -!- lament has changed nick to false.
23:27:30 <graue> yeah, I guess qdeql probably does need a wimpmode, or at least a + instruction
23:27:43 -!- false has changed nick to lament.
23:27:47 -!- esobot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:27:58 <jix> lament: fixed it?
23:28:11 <lament> jix: i'd rather fix False things, honestly :)
23:28:13 <Robdgreat> if you were inclined to add more interpreters to esobot you could implement a !false command
23:28:31 -!- lament has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric || Welcome falsebot, a False interpreter, prefix commands with a '!'.
23:28:43 <jix> !10,"JOIN #testchan"
23:28:48 -!- falsebot has joined.
23:28:57 <jix> !10,"JOIN #testchan"
23:29:06 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:29:33 <GregorR> OK, time to vote on what Gregor's new hat should be! Choices: http://www.villagehatshop.com/product132.html http://www.villagehatshop.com/indiana_jones_wool_hat.html or http://www.villagehatshop.com/product1535.html
23:29:55 <jix> still possible to flood... i'd terminate the program after 8 secs and only print the first 3 lines of output (terminate after 3 lines)
23:30:04 <lament> anyway there's still bugs in the interpreter itself
23:30:04 -!- falsebot has joined.
23:30:17 <lament> it would still freeze in a loop
23:30:22 <lament> i have to thread it or something
23:30:27 <jix> GregorR: 2nd
23:30:30 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:30:37 <lament> multiline output is not supported yet so flooding is not a problem :)
23:30:40 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for estoeric language design and deployment - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot is a False interpreter, prefix commands with a '!'.
23:31:07 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot is a False interpreter, prefix commands with a '!'.
23:31:26 <GregorR> That first phrase has to stay there because it's totally nonsensical.
23:31:58 <GregorR> OK, I have one vote, from jix, for the 2nd hat - anybody else? :P
23:32:08 <graue> I vote for whatever jix says
23:32:09 <GregorR> falsebot votes for the third.
23:32:23 <GregorR> graue votes for the second
23:32:37 <jix> i vote for extra extra large ;)
23:33:06 <GregorR> Doesn't anybody like the Tyrolean?
23:33:35 <jix> still buggy..
23:33:39 <lament> it's a while loop, not an until loop
23:33:45 <falsebot> ****************************************************************************************************
23:33:50 <falsebot> *******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
23:33:50 <jix> (my interpreter)
23:34:01 <lament> calamari: perhaps you ought to learn False first.
23:34:18 <lament> http://wouter.fov120.com/false/false.txt
23:34:33 <lament> GregorR: it's still computing...
23:34:36 <jix> wouter rulez
23:34:55 <lament> yes, speaking of which, why doesn't he come here anymore
23:35:03 <jix> he was here?
23:35:12 <jix> maybe he is too busy
23:35:14 <graue> jix, in 2003 or thereabouts yes
23:35:20 <graue> his presence can be seen in logs from back then
23:35:26 -!- falsebot has quit (Excess Flood).
23:35:34 <GregorR> He could at least be like cpressey and lurk except to add his occasional omnipotent thought.
23:35:43 * GregorR is .... THE FALSEBOT SLAYERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
23:36:03 <lament> i will fix this stuff when i have time :P
23:36:09 <lament> but it's not important
23:36:12 <jix> i know a friend of wouter
23:36:13 -!- falsebot has joined.
23:37:28 <lament> he used to frequent another channel i'm in
23:37:33 <lament> a doom-related channel
23:37:57 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:38:12 <jix> my axo2 interpreter works now!
23:39:42 -!- falsebot has joined.
23:39:47 <lament> (damn, why does it always take SO long to join freenode... not just for bots, either)
23:39:59 <GregorR> Three votes for the second now.
23:40:08 <lament> its environment is now constant
23:40:34 <calamari> what did I do wrong with my program? :)
23:40:39 <lament> you can define functions and stuff and it will remember them.
23:41:02 <lament> calamari: i dunno, what are you trying to do exactly?
23:41:13 <lament> calamari: but ; can't follow a 1 like that.
23:41:34 <calamari> was trying to code something like: while(1=1) { printf(".") }
23:41:52 <jix> ![1 1=]["."]#
23:42:00 <jix> ; != seperator
23:42:48 <calamari> I guess it waits for the program to terminate?
23:43:25 <lament> it can't exactly unbuffer the output
23:44:09 <calamari> I figured it would print as it encounters newlines
23:44:19 <lament> (i killed it manually)
23:45:43 <GregorR> Too bad I didn't actually read the spec :P
23:46:49 <GregorR> !"¿Dóës thïß ßüppòŗt ùníçôdê?"
23:54:35 <lament> ![[1O1O>2O2O=|][$@\-\]#%]m:
23:55:24 <lament> now everyone can use it.
23:55:41 <lament> until somebody redefines it or the bot dies.
23:56:48 <lament> this is clearly highly volatile storage anyhow
23:56:53 <lament> as anybody can redefine things
23:57:03 <GregorR> Yeah, but we're all relatively nice in here :P
23:57:12 <GregorR> So we're not likely to steal eachother's definitions too much.
23:57:24 <lament> yes, but there's only room for 26 of them
23:57:25 <GregorR> However, it would be sad if somebody made a really awesome function and then it disappeared :P
23:57:49 <lament> technically, false says that only a-z should be valid variables
23:58:03 <lament> but even in the spec itself it says that you can use anything as a variable
23:58:27 <lament> because the reference interpreter allows that
23:58:41 <lament> in the reference interpreter, : and ; are just pointer reference / dereference
23:59:08 <lament> then it would be easy to write a program that created 1000000 definitions
00:01:10 <falsebot> [[1, 'O', 1, 'O', '>', 2, 'O', 2, 'O', '=', '|'], ['$', '@', '\\', '-', '\\'], '#', '%']
00:04:58 <graue> I wrote up a simple non-Turing-completeness proof for Qdeql: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Qdeql
00:05:52 <lament> ![16807* 2147483647m;!]r:
00:06:44 <Robdgreat> this bot seems to be the greatest thing to ever happen to these guys
00:07:00 <GregorR> Robdgreat: Only for a brief day or so, I guarantee you ;)
00:07:29 <GregorR> I don't have a short ... *yawn* ... what were we talking about?
00:07:38 <lament> Robdgreat: not bad considering it took me an hour or so to write it
00:08:36 <kipple> how about making the bot send the output in a private message instead of spamming the channel?
00:08:56 <lament> everybody MUST know the output :P
00:09:01 <jix> sqrt in axo:
00:09:02 <jix> }:1.91+>[#%
00:09:02 <jix> %+1+]/, ;,<,
00:09:02 <jix> >2/].1-^ \{<
00:09:19 <jix> my befunge like lang
00:09:28 <jix> in the first line replace % with %%
00:12:11 <jix> replace the number '91+' with a higher one for better precision (bigger numbers) or with a lower one for less precision
00:14:05 <jix> i think axo is turing complete because it's main data structure is a unlimited double ended queue
00:20:04 <jix> axo is pronounced aCHzo where CH is pronounced like the ch in Johann Sebastian Bach
00:34:11 <jix> or use this (http://www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/dt/forsch/phonetik/boss/index.html) to synthesize the word achso
00:48:27 <jix> !1,"ACTION is cool"1,
00:49:39 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
00:49:45 -!- jix has joined.
00:56:44 * graue does not actually know how to program in False!
00:57:18 <jix> !2,"TIME"2,
00:57:49 <graue> jix, it's plainly apparent that it does not output characters 0 through 31
00:58:04 <graue> that means our fun is rather limited in this regard
00:59:44 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
01:17:36 <graue> draft spec for Sceql: http://www.voxelperfect.net:3875/esolang/sceql.txt
01:18:47 <graue> this is a revised Qdeql, with changes that hopefully make it computationally useful
02:02:35 <graue> I think this may still be unusable because \ still dequeues its test byte when nonzero
02:02:50 <graue> but now it's possible to abbreviate the code that prints a !
02:03:05 <graue> =_________________________________*
02:03:31 <graue> =_\=/=__________\=-=\/\/___=/*
02:28:06 <kipple> it still looks incredibly hard to use...
02:37:22 <graue> well, duh, but maybe a quine can be written in it now?
02:37:46 <graue> I'm not sure though if it's possible to compensate for the \ instruction's crazy antics enough to store an arbitrary amount of data
02:39:37 <graue> what if the \ command just looks at the next byte on the queue, dequeues it if it's zero, but leaves it there and enqueues two zero bytes otherwise?
02:42:43 <graue> well, I'll work on it tomorrow
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02:59:22 <GregorR> Why don't they cook cows the same way that they cook lobsters?
03:20:46 <lament> cpressey: sorry for not making it a befunge bot :P
03:21:13 <calamari> !123456789012345678 987654321+.
03:21:19 <calamari> !123456789012345678111111111111111111111111111111 987654321+.
03:21:19 <falsebot> 123456789012345678111111111111111111112098765432
03:21:40 <lament> it just uses python longs
03:21:47 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:21:57 <lament> which is perhaps not such a great idea
03:22:17 -!- falsebot has joined.
03:22:31 <lament> cause logical (bitwise) operations don't work on them properly, i think
03:23:21 <lament> so bitwise ops also work as logical ops
03:23:40 <lament> !11111111111111111111111111~.
03:27:05 <lament> calamari: just read the manual
03:27:30 <lament> http://wouter.fov120.com/false/false.txt
03:27:35 <calamari> lament: I'm just fooling around, it is bothering you? :)
03:31:56 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:32:28 -!- falsebot has joined.
03:32:41 <falsebot> Error: global name 'source' is not defined
03:38:08 <lament> calamari: note that definitions are persistent
03:38:51 <calamari> is there a way to clear a var after using it?
03:39:05 <lament> put something else in it
03:39:57 <calamari> heh, so a is now different than z
03:41:23 <lament> calamari: well, referencing unassigned variables is undefined behaviour anyway :)
03:43:26 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:43:59 -!- falsebot has joined.
03:44:08 <calamari> is it having ping timeout problems?
03:45:52 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:46:24 -!- falsebot has joined.
03:46:24 <lament> that should output 3 4, right?
03:48:04 <calamari> now I need to read about loops :)
03:49:41 <lament> !1 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\." "." "]#
03:49:41 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
03:50:12 <calamari> trying to steal my thunder? :)
03:50:22 <lament> !1 1 10a:[a;0>][O1O1$@+\." "." "]#
03:50:22 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
03:50:50 <calamari> you only want to print the first one, otherwise terms will repeat
03:50:56 <lament> !1 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\." "]#
03:50:56 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
03:51:04 <lament> !1 1 10a:[a;0>][O1O1$@+\." "]#
03:51:04 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
03:51:34 <lament> the circle with line through it
03:51:46 <lament> cause i don't even know how to write that.
03:53:08 <lament> i guess i should accept the real one anyway but i don't even know what ascii code it is.
03:54:07 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\." "a;1-a:]#
03:54:07 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
03:54:18 <GregorR> If you can set up a compose key, alt-O-/
03:58:28 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][a;1-a:a;." "]#
03:58:34 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$ a;1-a:a;." "]#
03:58:38 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@ a;1-a:a;." "]#
03:58:42 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+ a;1-a:a;." "]#
03:59:11 <calamari> printing is killing it .. I need to dup first
04:00:30 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\$." "a;1-a:]#
04:00:40 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.@" "a;1-a:]#
04:00:40 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
04:01:08 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:01:40 -!- falsebot has joined.
04:01:42 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#
04:02:47 <lament> ![0 1@a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#]f:
04:03:12 <falsebot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040
04:03:24 <falsebot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465
04:03:30 <falsebot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170
04:03:38 <falsebot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170 1836311903 2971215073
04:04:14 <falsebot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597
04:04:17 <lament> ![{prints n fibonacci numbers}0 1@a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#]f:
04:04:23 <falsebot> [{prints n fibonacci numbers}0 1@a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#]
04:04:28 <calamari> btw, is there a better way to decrement a than a;1-a: ?
04:06:00 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:].#
04:06:01 <falsebot> Error: len() of unsized object
04:06:06 <calamari> !0 1 10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.
04:06:36 <calamari> !0 1 0." ".10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.
04:06:37 <falsebot> Error: list index out of range
04:06:43 <calamari> !0 1 0." "10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.
04:06:54 <lament> i need to work on it giving real error messages
04:09:26 <falsebot> [0, 1, '@', 'a', ':', ['a', ';', 0, '>'], ['$', '@', '+', '\\', '$', '.', '\\', '" "', 'a', ';', 1, '-', 'a', ':'], '#', 0, 1, '@', 'a', ':', ['a', ';', 0, '>'], ['$', '@', '+', '\\', '$', '.', '\\', '" "', 'a', ';', 1, '-', 'a', ':'], '#']
04:09:37 <calamari> ![0 1 0." "@a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.]f:
04:10:10 <falsebot> 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170 1836311903 2971215073
04:10:32 <calamari> ![0 1 0." "@a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.]fib:
04:11:29 <GregorR> Hmm, I'm thinking up a new OO esolang....
04:12:17 <lament> without completely breaking compatibility with false
04:14:30 <calamari> !2971215073 100000000 1836311903 * /.
04:14:39 <GregorR> {M[ma"Hello World!"=bO!bo.a^]}
04:15:16 <calamari> !1000000000 1836311903 * 2971215073 /.
04:15:22 <calamari> !10000000000 1836311903 * 2971215073 /.
04:15:27 <calamari> !100000000000 1836311903 * 2971215073 /.
04:15:32 <calamari> !1000000000000 1836311903 * 2971215073 /.
04:15:36 <calamari> !100000000000000000000 1836311903 * 2971215073 /.
04:15:59 <calamari> not sure how many deciamls I'm really supposed to have there :)
04:16:22 <calamari> !100000000000000000000 1836311903 * 2971215073 /"1.".
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04:34:49 <lament> you always start writing something with best intentions, and the next day it already needs a complete rewrite.
04:34:52 <falsebot> Error: Argument to + is not a number
04:35:23 <lament> !0 1 0." ".10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.
04:35:23 <falsebot> Error: Not enough stack elements for %
04:35:58 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:36:30 -!- falsebot has joined.
04:37:03 <lament> !0 1 0." ".10a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.
04:37:03 <falsebot> Error: Not enough stack elements for @
04:37:14 <falsebot> Error: integer division or modulo by zero
04:37:55 <falsebot> Error: # loop body is not a function
04:39:10 <calamari> ![0 1 0." "@a:[a;0>][$@+\$.\" "a;1-a:]#.]f:
04:39:14 <falsebot> 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170 1836311903 2971215073
04:43:12 * GregorR fails to write a parser for his new esolang.
04:43:25 <lament> do you also hate programming? :)
04:43:58 <GregorR> It just doesn't love me ;)
04:50:22 <Robdgreat> I thought of attempting an esolang in which functions take the form of haiku
04:50:48 <Robdgreat> wouldn't surprise me if it's been attempted
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05:07:28 <GregorR> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
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06:25:04 <GregorR> Check out Gregor's partially developed new esolang: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
06:27:29 <calamari> how do you add/subtract, etc? :)
06:27:56 <calamari> or is it all done by string manipulations?
06:28:10 <GregorR> There are builtin classes, as in ORK.
06:28:15 <GregorR> So, to add would be something like this:
06:28:40 <GregorR> {M[m(_m)M!<12><13>(_m)(add).?]}
06:29:05 <GregorR> Except the word "add" would probably be something shorter, like "a"
06:29:26 <calamari> were the () to simplify parsing?
06:29:49 <GregorR> Not exactly, it's because you can do this: aaa, to push a onto the stack thrice.
06:30:00 <GregorR> So, if you want to push aaa onto the stack, you have to use (aaa)
06:30:14 <GregorR> So, variables with >1 character names are mildly less convenient :-P
06:30:26 <calamari> a a a? then you can use () instead of []? :) (j.k. it's your lang)
06:31:22 <GregorR> [(a)...] = declare a function in the current class with the code ... named a
06:31:41 <GregorR> That is, the variable a in the current class will point towards a function with the code ...
06:33:22 <calamari> hehe.. I'm mentally translating that to Java, isn't that sad?
06:34:06 <calamari> I've never implemented an oo lang.. I should sometime
06:35:09 <GregorR> Glass is fun because it has both pointers and objects :P
06:36:00 <GregorR> If you do ab=, a will be set to a pointer to b. If you do ab*=, a will be set to the value of b.
06:36:57 <lament> what does the esolongs wiki logo signify?
06:37:08 <calamari> I don't know C++ except the C compatible subset of it
06:37:10 <GregorR> Esoteric programmers like lemons.
06:38:50 <calamari> or oranges on the mirror.. except the forground one which looks nasty :)
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07:08:36 <GregorR> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooga!
07:10:23 <Robdgreat> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooga!
07:13:00 <GregorR> That wasn't proper code btw ;)
07:14:03 <GregorR> {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
07:14:30 <GregorR> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
07:21:48 <GregorR> I'm trying to write fibonacci :P
07:24:08 <GregorR> I need a better way to do "return"
07:24:14 <GregorR> {F[f(_m)M!<2>(_m)(le).?a1=/a,<1>\ ......... in progress :P
07:24:58 <nooga> how to use falsebot?
07:25:12 <GregorR> Just put the false code after a !
07:34:53 <nooga> shouldn't stack have 10 on the top?
07:39:20 <GregorR> {F[f(_c)A!<2>(_c)(le).?(_a)1=/(_a),<1>^\(_a)$0<1>(_c)m.?(_a)f.?1<2>(_c)m.?(_a)f.?(_c)a.?(_a)1=,,(_a)*]} {M[m(_n)<50>=(_f)F!(_a)A!(_c)<0>=/(_n)(_c)(_f)f.?(_c)1=,(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:41:44 <GregorR> {F[f(_c)A!0<2> (_c)(le).?(_a)1=,/(_a),<1>^\(_a)$0<1>(_c)m.?(_a)f.?1<2>(_c)m.?(_a)f.?(_c)a.?(_a)1=,,(_a)*]} {M[m(_n)<50>=(_f)F!(_a)A!(_c)<0>=/(_n)(_c)(_f)f.?(_c)1=,(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:42:01 <GregorR> That was the plan from the start ;)
07:42:18 <GregorR> It's concise enough that it can be typed in the channel, plus it can store classes, so you could share :)
07:43:45 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Join the club, Robdgreat!"(_o)o.?]}
07:56:00 <GregorR> I'm so tired I said "by" instead of "bye"
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13:38:56 <jix> stub for axo http://esolangs.org/wiki/Axo
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13:45:36 <jix> moin kipple
13:45:39 <jix> kipple: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Axo
13:57:57 <kipple> I don't really understand those modes
14:00:15 <jix> you start string mode with " and end it with " ... in string mode every character that isn't a command in stringmode (has no (s) in the list) gets pushed onto the stack
14:00:28 <jix> same for ' with the difference that there are no commands in ' mode
14:00:49 <jix> "Hello, world!" pushes 'H','e'....
14:10:56 <jix> updated interpreter
15:18:10 <GregorR> It would be awesome if I could wake up and just continue working on Glass, rather than going to my class :P
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16:26:07 <jix> there is a bug in axo2i :(
16:26:16 <jix> somewhere in the stack code
16:31:08 <jix> maybe i'm going to rewrite this using c++ and stl
16:37:41 <jix> realloc sucks
16:40:52 <graue> you should write super super clean C code like I do: http://www.esolangs.org/files/prolan-m/impl/prolan-m.c
16:41:36 <jix> i can't write clean c code
16:41:51 <jix> without complex and ugly macros i have to type too much
16:42:33 <graue> why don't you use functions for that?
16:42:38 <graue> C compilers know how to inline
16:43:06 <jix> because i don't like plain c ;)
16:54:51 <jix> i'm going to rewrite it in clean c++ code
16:55:23 <jix> making it a good base code for any other fungoid interpreter
16:59:51 <graue> it's such a formal affair
17:00:03 <graue> you have to dress up in a suit and tie to write plain C code, if you truly mean it
17:12:52 <graue> tentative instruction set for Sceql: http://www.voxelperfect.net:3875/esolang/sceql.txt
17:16:49 <jix> graue: and where is a dequeue instruction?
17:17:49 <graue> jix: nowhere :)))))))))
17:17:52 <graue> that's what makes it evil
17:18:05 <jix> and slow (if the queue grows)
17:18:09 <graue> I assume you mean a dequeue instruction that doesn't also re-enqueue
17:20:00 <graue> I suppose I could add a dequeue operation and make it an error to dequeue the last byte (or a 0 gets enqueued if that happens)
17:20:44 <jix> make a dequeue instruction and make it an error to dequeue a byte ;)
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17:27:57 <GregorR-L> I see these smokers outside, and have a strong urge to find myself a firearm and solve the problem, but I have thusfar managed to resist ...
17:29:57 <jix> free(smokers)
17:30:17 <jix> argh they will resist in memory
17:30:33 <jix> bzero(smokers,smokers->size)
17:31:45 <GregorR-L> for (i = 0; i < smokers.count(); i++) delete smokers[i];
17:31:47 <graue> why don't you memset them to 255 and then to 0 several times?
17:32:14 <graue> this should make sure they can't be retrieved from disk if they were stored in an mmap'd file
17:32:35 * GregorR-L watches the metaphore stretch beyond its logical limit :P
17:32:44 <graue> by "good idea", I was referring to the dequeue instruction idea, by the way
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17:40:41 <GregorR-L> {(StackE)[(c__)n<0>=][sn1=,][gn*]} {(Stack)[(c__)h<0>=][a(_a)A!(_c)h*=(_n)<0>=/(_c)(_c)(_c)g.?=(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=\(_n)*]}
17:41:49 * jix is learning c++
18:00:40 <GregorR-L> {(StackE)[(c__)n<0>=][(gn)n*][(sn)n1=,]}{(Stack)[(c__)h<0>=][(cnt)(_a)A!(_cur)h*=(_cnt)<0>=/(_cur)(_cnt)(_cnt)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_cur)(_cur)(gn).?=\(_cnt)*]}
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18:16:32 <graue> I've put up an interpreter for Sceql, the revised Qdeql: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/sceql/impl/sceql.c
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18:23:05 <GregorR-L> Better fibonacci'r: {F[f(_num)1=,(_a)A!(_t)$(_ile)(_num)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_ile)<1>^\(_num)*<1>(_a)m.?(_t)f.?(_num)*<2>(_a)m.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}{M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!(_a)A!(_num)<50>=(_cur)<0>=/(_num)(_cur)(_cur)*(_f)f.?=(_cur)*(_o)(on).?(_num)(_num)*<1>(_a)m.?=\]}
18:23:37 <graue> do you have an interpreter written for this language yet?
18:33:16 <lament> !99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
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18:35:46 <lament> !99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
18:35:47 <falsebot> 97 89 83 79 73 71 67 61 59 53 47 43 41 37 31 29 23 19 17 13 11 7 5 3 2
18:36:18 <GregorR-L> lament: Your first bit of code made grim underscore leave ;)
18:36:23 <lament> !999 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
18:36:35 <falsebot> 997 991 983 977 971 967 953 947 941 937 929 919 911 907 887 883 881 877 863 859 857 853 839 ...Endless loop?
18:37:11 <GregorR-L> !5 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
18:37:36 <lament> funny that they're backwards.
18:37:43 <GregorR-L> Does anybody know of a good pseudocode snippet of primes so maybe I could write a Glass version?
18:39:30 <lament> eratosthenes' sieve...
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20:00:56 <GregorR-L> {M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!(_cnt)<99>=/(_cnt)(_cnt)*(_o)(on).?" bottles of beer on the wall!\n"(_o)o.?(_cnt)*(_o)(on).?" bottles of beer!\nTake one down and pass it around,\n"(_o)o.?(_cnt)(_cnt)*<1>(_a)m.?=(_cnt)*(_o)(on).?" bottles of beer on the wall!\n"(_o)o.?\"No more bottles of beer on the wall!"(_o)o.?]}
20:08:15 <GregorR-L> The trick is that I write it like this: http://pastebin.ca/26086
20:34:00 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot is a False interpreter, prefix commands with a '!'.
20:43:33 <jix> hmm are there manpages for c++ functions/methods/libs ?
20:45:34 <GregorR-L> Or at least, I've never seen them.
20:46:55 <jix> i don't know what the methods do... do they allocate memory.. do i have to delete it...
20:48:17 <jix> but they arn't real functions (like in functional programming)
20:49:04 <GregorR-L> You can do all the funky functional programming stuff, but it gets very very confusing when you do it with functions in classes ;)
20:49:45 <jix> real functions have no side effects
20:50:29 <jix> but using an oo lang for strict functional programming is stupid anyways
20:50:53 <GregorR-L> Well, admittedly if you actually conform to the OO paradigm, you have defeated the possibility of functional programming, for that very reason.
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21:36:25 <GregorR> Time to continue working on Glass 8-D
21:37:23 * jix wants a glass interpreter / compiler
21:37:29 <GregorR> Oh, I know, dihydrogen monoxide!
21:37:59 <jix> GregorR: ah not the EVIL dihydrogen monoxide!
21:38:23 <GregorR> It's the primary ingredient of acid rain!
21:38:56 <GregorR> And yet, they still put it in all beverages!
21:39:28 <jix> MOnoXIdE !
21:40:23 <Robdgreat> I just now started on a BF interpreter in atari basic
21:41:00 <jix> i started writing a BF interpreter in ti-92(v200/92+/89) basic and decided that ti-basic sucks
21:41:24 <jix> and lost interest
21:41:27 <Robdgreat> I had an 86 and it was sufficient to keep me entertained in math class, but that was about the extent of its programming capabilities
21:41:58 <jix> my new primary portable esolang development device is going to be a gp2x
21:42:37 <jix> gp2x == device like the nintendo ds or psp but running linux and with open source api (and without 3d acceleration)
21:42:38 <Robdgreat> I need something a little more affordable
21:42:55 <Robdgreat> like, something I could pick up for next to nothingon ebay
21:43:27 <jix> palm has open source apis
21:44:13 <jix> no i don't own a palm.. i just know people that own a palm
21:44:36 <jix> well i have TWO palms ;)
21:44:51 <jix> one in my right hand another one in my left hand
21:45:07 <jix> but they have no open source api
21:45:41 <jix> they use cryptic proprietary code called DNA
21:46:18 <jix> yeah of course you can add many extensions but you can't modify the core that easy
21:47:30 <jix> is there a function of deque to get the last item?
21:48:49 <jix> GregorR: thanks
21:49:15 <Robdgreat> any other suggestions for an inexpensive portable esolang development device?
21:49:48 <jix> powerbook ;)
22:47:29 <GregorR> mainStack[0]->fval->contents->runFunc(mainStack[0]->kival, fvar);
22:56:11 <jix> Glass interpreter?
23:03:08 <GregorR> YAY, I made tons o' errors!
23:14:45 <GregorR> I'm so close to completing this I can taste it ...
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23:33:32 <jix> stl makes many things easier
23:33:38 <jix> stl and the string class
23:36:58 <jix> GregorR: completed?
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23:51:13 <GregorR-L> Heh, I use strings, maps, vectors and deques in Glass :P
23:52:13 <jix> i use strings, vectors and deques in axopp
23:52:44 <GregorR-L> Well, I'm away from my code right now, so I'll just write more examples :P
23:54:09 <jix> mandelbrot
23:54:30 <jix> it's very easy
23:54:58 <jix> math code: f(z) = z^2+c
23:57:18 <jix> pseudocode (using floats) r = x;i = y;iter = 20 /*iteration count*/;while(iter-- && r*r+i*i < 4){tmp = r;r=r*r-i*i+x;i=2*tmp*i+y;} plot(x,y,iter)
23:57:30 <jix> a good range for x and y is -2..2
23:58:33 <jix> if you want julia-set instead of mandelbrot-set replace +x and +y with +cr and +ci (where cr and ci are real and imaginary part of the parameter c)
23:59:36 <jix> i'm always able to write a mandelbrot program (without internet!)
00:33:54 * jix needs a c++ equivalent to his ugly line of c code
00:37:24 <jix> GregorR-L: ?
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00:53:14 <GregorR-L> Sorry, I got silently disconnected :P
00:53:23 <GregorR-L> {(Are)[(c__)v<0>=n<0>=][gv*][sv1=,][(gn)n*][(sn)n1=,]}{(Ar)[(c__)h<0>=][g(_a)A!(_n)1=,(_c)h*=/(_c)(_ni0)(_n)*<0>(_a)e.?=/(_ni0)(_c)g.?^\(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)m.?=(_c)(_c)(gn).?=\<0>][s(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_s)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_c)(_ni0)(_n)*<0>(_a)e.?=/(_ni0)(_s)*(_c)s.?^\(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)m.?=(_nxt)(_c)(gn).?=(_nnxt)(_nxt)*<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<0>=(_newc)(_v)n.?=(_newc)**(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)(gn).?=\]}
00:54:01 <GregorR-L> kipple: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
00:54:11 <kipple> yeah, I know. it was a joke
00:54:21 <kipple> it looks like perl though :)
00:55:09 * kipple is waiting for an implementation before checking it out properly
00:57:36 <kipple> does the _ char have some special meaning, or do you simply like to use it in variable names?
00:57:59 <GregorR-L> It means that it's function-local.
01:12:08 <GregorR-L> {(Are)[(c__)v<0>=n<0>=][gv*][sv1=,][(gn)n*][(sn)n1=,]}{(Ar)[(c__)(_v)V!(_newc)(_v)n.?=h(_newc)**=][g(_a)A!(_n)1=,(_c)h*=/(_c)(_ni0)(_n)*<0>(_a)e.?=/(_ni0)(_c)g.?^\(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)m.?=(_c)(_c)(gn).?=\<0>][s(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_s)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_c)(_ni0)(_n)*<0>(_a)e.?=/(_ni0)(_s)*(_c)s.?^\(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)m.?=(_nxt)(_c)(gn).?=(_nnxt)(_nxt)*<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<0>=(_newc)(_v)n.?=(_newc)**(_c)(sn).
01:16:01 <kipple> so, what does that code do?
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01:24:47 <GregorR-L> kipple: It's a linear linked list.
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04:26:25 <Robdgreat> Still taking recommendations for a portable development device
04:27:30 <GregorR> My glass interpreter just ran its first program :)
04:29:32 <GregorR> It's not that advanced yet ;)
04:29:42 <GregorR> It needs a bit more polishing.
04:29:57 <GregorR> For example, not all of the builtin classes are implemented, so you can't do math ;)
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05:17:08 * GregorR is now trying to track down a totally inexplicable bug.
05:17:11 <GregorR> It's almost completely working ...
05:25:23 <GregorR> Apparently "this" doesn't work.
05:32:30 <GregorR> Well, I fixed "this", but I'm still having issues :'(
05:34:05 <GregorR> My Fibonacci test code is going into an infinite recursion ..
05:37:05 <GregorR> It worked, I just asked for too much!
05:38:19 <GregorR> $ ./glass exa/fibonacci.glass
05:38:21 <GregorR> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
05:42:26 <GregorR> Very dense, very unreadable :p
05:45:59 <GregorR> Come aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand get it!
05:46:12 <GregorR> Note: this version is terrible with memory :)
05:46:57 <GregorR> Hmm, I need somewhere to upload it :P
05:50:58 <GregorR> Ping to anybody with SVN access to the files archive?
05:59:15 <GregorR> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/glass/glass-0.1.tar.bz2
06:12:32 * Arrogant is going to start experimenting with LLVM
06:14:23 <Arrogant> It's some new thing that I keep hearing about when I read mailing lists
06:14:54 <Arrogant> (Mailing lists like PyPy and Logix)
06:15:07 <Arrogant> (Looking for low-level backends)
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06:16:14 <GregorR> Oh, I see, it's some sort of bytecode essentially?
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06:23:57 <GregorR> What port is a standard IRC port?
06:32:34 <GregorR> It's too bad I don't actually know the IRC protocol :P
06:33:34 <GregorR> I'm just adapting glass into glassIRC *shrugs*
06:42:15 * GregorR wonders why netcat isn't happy with him
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07:34:56 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, World!"(_o)o.?]}
07:35:08 <GregorR> Oh darn, the parser's a bit off ...
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07:36:25 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, World!"(_o)o.?]}
07:36:41 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
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07:41:01 <GregorR> GlassBot scared Falsebot away :)
07:41:13 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, World!"(_o)o.?]}
07:41:51 <GregorR> G! {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}
07:42:21 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?""(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*<20>(_a)(le).?=\]}
07:42:23 <GlassBot> 11235813213455891442333776109871597258441816765
07:43:05 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*<20>(_a)(le).?=\]}
07:43:07 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
07:43:14 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*<10>(_a)(le).?=\]}
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07:52:34 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, Gregor!"(_o)o.?]}
07:53:18 <GregorR> G! {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}
07:53:47 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*<20>(_a)(le).?=\]}
07:53:50 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
07:55:24 <GregorR> G! {(Fib)[(fib)(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\]}
07:55:43 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
07:55:45 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
07:55:54 <GregorR> Man, I am a Glass master./
07:56:02 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<10>(_f)(fib).?]}
07:56:35 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Will\nthis screw up?"(_o)o.?]}
07:56:45 <GregorR> Hoopla for injection bugs.
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08:04:34 <GregorR> G! {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}
08:04:37 <GregorR> G! {(Fib)[(fib)(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\]}
08:05:27 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
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08:06:09 <GregorR> The reported error is meaningless, for your convenience :P
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08:06:30 <GregorR> G! {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}
08:06:32 <GregorR> G! {(Fib)[(fib)(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\]}
08:06:34 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
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08:26:58 <GregorR> G! {(Fib)[(fib)(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\]}
08:27:08 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
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08:27:55 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot: !<false>, GlassBot: G!<Glass>.
08:28:35 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Gregor is amazing!"(_o)o.?]}
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09:30:48 <nooga> congratulations GregorR
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13:55:32 <fizzie> Recently I considered utilizing the classic DOS-age game "Transport Tycoon" (or more exactly, the OpenTTD version) as a rather esoteric form of programming, but after some failed attempts at simulating digital logic circuits with it ( http://gehennom.org/~fis/ttd_logic/ ) I think I'll just forget about that.
13:56:35 <nooga> also tried to make some circuits from railways and signals
13:58:09 <nooga> http://gehennom.org/~fis/ttd_logic/l2_a0b0_init.png
14:07:27 <fizzie> I am wondering if that thing would work better with the OpenTTD "new pathfinding" patch.
14:16:49 <fizzie> Hmmn. Seemed that new-pathfinding was already on, and it didn't work any better with old. Although my OpenTTD is version 0.3.6, apparently there's still something newer in the CVS.
14:18:50 <nooga> to get this working
14:26:32 <fizzie> Seems I managed to semi-fix that thing. The route selection still doesn't work, and I need to manually reverse the trains, but at least the signals look correct. (Interestingly, signals in a diagonal piece of track work differently than signals on a horizontal/vertical piece of track. I wonder if that's a bug in 0.3.6 - 0.4.0.1 is the latest release, after all.)
14:32:26 <fizzie> I think I'll try the latest from.. oh, it's Subversion, not CVS. Well, anyway.
14:41:43 <fizzie> Oooh. It seems to work with this NPF option. I guess I'll test the various values and take some new screen-caps, then.
14:43:04 <nooga> to program something usefull in this, map should be 10^10 x 10^10 large
14:43:30 <nooga> and OpenTTD should be modified to handle I/O
14:44:29 <nooga> and even if you use maglev trains it would be sooo slow
14:44:50 <fizzie> 14:13:36 < fizzie> What I find funny is that it takes on the order of weeks of game-time for the "signals" to "propagate" through the "circuits". Doing this same thing in real-life would be incredibly slow and boring.
14:46:46 <fizzie> (Feh, there's still some bugs left.)
14:48:54 <nooga> designing a microprocesor in OpenTTD :F
14:50:36 <fizzie> I was thinking of an adder (perhaps even two-bit!), that just might fit.
14:50:55 <fizzie> But I guess I'll need to fix this 'nor' first and update the web page.
14:55:44 <nooga> pitty that trains can't connect
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15:02:54 <nooga> you'll save time during the tests if you use maglev ;p
15:03:39 <kipple> so, is Transport Tycoon turing complete?
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15:08:03 <kipple> wildhalcyon: made some progress on my bf 2 glypho compiler last night :)
15:08:22 <kipple> yes, glass looks very interesting
15:09:12 <kipple> hello world.b compiled to glypho produced the following output: Helloŵ ?)?
15:09:24 <kipple> so, there is some bug in there...
15:09:40 <nooga> fizzie: think what will happen if you use trains with varied speed
15:09:46 <wildhalcyon> Hmm, something to do with the space, it would seem
15:10:05 <kipple> actually not. it has to do with the > and < instructions
15:10:44 <kipple> hello.b is 143 bytes. hello.gsh is 1445 bytes :D
15:11:05 <wildhalcyon> really? ouch, I'm sure it doesn't need to be that big
15:11:36 <kipple> it has to do with the way hello.b is written. the space is the first time when more than one > is used
15:11:49 <kipple> yes, but braifuck can't fo multiplication. it is not optimizing
15:12:09 <kipple> anyway, it's the <> that is taking up all the space
15:12:30 <kipple> emulating a tape takes a few conditionals
15:12:38 <kipple> which is not too easy :)
15:13:01 <kipple> I plan on adding wrapping for + and - too, and then it will become even larger :)
15:13:46 <wildhalcyon> hmm, that sounds fairly complicated for emulating bf, but the language is TC
15:15:15 <fizzie> And not sure about turing-completeness. My guess is it might be, if we assume an infinite-size map. Writing a Turing machine interpreter (or a brainf*ck one) wouldn't be very fun, though.
15:21:44 <wildhalcyon> alright, this troublemaker needs to get going
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16:42:38 <fizzie> Heh. Constructed a generic 2-input logic function (has a switchboard-type thing to specify the truth value).
16:42:48 <fizzie> gate.png there. It's rather... large.
16:47:05 <fizzie> And I can fit 40 of those on the map comfortably!
16:48:19 <fizzie> I'd try some small logic circuit (like a 4-bit adder or so) if that game had a copy-paste function. :p
16:48:24 <kipple> now you only need to make the openTTD developers add a cut'n paste feature :)
16:49:03 <kipple> great minds think alike ;)
16:49:59 <fizzie> I'm not sure they'd consider it important enough. Although I guess I could look at the file formats. If it's simple enough, I guess I could create a map/savegame with 40 of those logic gates, with enough space in-between to connect them.
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19:43:42 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Amazingly, GlassBot is still alive."(_o)o.?]}
19:43:43 <GlassBot> Amazingly, GlassBot is still alive.
19:45:17 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
19:45:19 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
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19:55:55 <GregorR> Now it has a cache! Let's test :)
19:56:22 <GregorR> G! {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}
19:57:58 <GregorR> G! {(Fib)[(fib)(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\]}
19:58:19 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
19:58:21 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
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19:59:15 <GregorR> OK, I killed it, but it should still have all the same classes :)
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19:59:46 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
19:59:49 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
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20:01:31 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, MTVE!"(_o)o.?]}
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22:01:00 <GregorR> Is it just me, or am I always on when absolutely nobody else is? :P
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22:11:57 <lament> hey where did falsebot go
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22:12:35 <GregorR> <GregorR>Ah, found the problem.07:40:00
22:12:38 <GregorR> falsebotQuit with message (Remote closed the connection).07:40:21
22:12:40 <GregorR> <GregorR>GlassBot scared Falsebot away :)
22:12:44 <lament> i think i killed it accidentally
22:13:11 <GregorR> You mean GlassBot didn't scare it away? :(
22:21:58 <GregorR> !"G!{M[m(_o)O!<20>(_o)(on).?]}"
22:22:16 <GregorR> Now to find a polyglot quine ;)
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22:49:39 <wildhalcyon> Looks like falsebot and glassbot had a fight night
22:49:49 <GregorR> Why did GlassBot just die >_O
22:50:17 <wildhalcyon> because falsebot KO'd him with the flush operator
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22:50:46 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"I promise I won't quit randomly again!"(_o)o.?]}
22:50:47 <GlassBot> I promise I won't quit randomly again!
22:51:28 <wildhalcyon> Nice. Im going to have to learn glass, it looks particularly evil...
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22:52:38 <wildhalcyon> Im questioning whether or not you've outdone yourself gregor
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22:53:16 <wildhalcyon> G! {M[m(_o)O!"I have delivered the killing blow!"(_o)o.?]}
22:53:16 <GlassBot> I have delivered the killing blow!
22:53:42 <GregorR> Now, if you can tell me /why/ that outputs that, you will be one step closer to knowing Glass ;)
22:53:57 <wildhalcyon> I don't know how it does it, but I too can copy-paste your text gregor!
22:54:38 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<25>(_f)(fib).?]}
22:54:53 <wildhalcyon> lol.. I just pictured some jock tattooing each bicep, one with "ctrl-C" and one with "ctrl-P"
22:54:54 <GregorR> Hmm, 25 may have been too much :P
22:54:59 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025
22:55:22 <GregorR> My Fibonacci'r is not an efficient algorithm :P
22:55:22 <lament> GregorR: can it show what Fib is?
22:55:37 <GregorR> lament: I'm working on a builtin Debug class to do just that :)
22:57:00 <wildhalcyon> While my computer was on the fritz (warning: still slightly fritz-prone) I took a break from esolangs :-(
22:57:40 <lament> ![$0=[%%10]$0=~[1O\1-p;!*0]?%]p:
22:57:47 <falsebot> Error: Argument to - is not a number
22:58:25 <lament> ![$0=[%%10]?$0=~[1O\1-p;!*0]?%]p:
22:58:26 <falsebot> Error: maximum recursion depth exceeded
22:58:28 <wildhalcyon> What happens if the bot goes into an infinite loop?
22:58:39 <GregorR> Mine just dies horribly :-P
22:58:58 <wildhalcyon> cool, well bettter a bloody impressive death than a miserable small one
22:59:22 <lament> mine does too, apparently.
23:00:18 <falsebot> Error: Not enough stack elements for O
23:01:42 <lament> bah. i hate programming.
23:04:19 <GregorR> Almost done with the debug class ...
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23:23:18 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)(_d)(cl).?]}
23:23:54 <GregorR> Hmm, it hasn't even received that message yet :P
23:24:05 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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23:24:57 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)(_d)(cl).?]}
23:25:08 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
23:25:15 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Fib"(_d)(fl).?]}
23:25:20 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Fib""fib"(_d)(fc).?]}
23:25:21 <GlassBot> (_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\
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00:16:33 <GregorR> Anybody have a clue why that might be happening?
00:29:08 -!- GlassBot has joined.
00:30:10 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
00:30:13 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
00:30:29 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
00:30:29 -!- GlassBot has quit (Success).
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00:40:29 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
00:40:32 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
00:40:37 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
00:40:40 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
00:42:13 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
00:42:20 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Fib"(_d)(fl).?]}
00:42:26 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Fib""fib"(_d)(fc).?]}
00:42:27 <GlassBot> (_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\
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00:51:37 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hi calamari!"(_o)o.?]}
00:51:56 <calamari> ! {M[m(_o)O!"Hi calamari!"(_o)o.?]}
00:52:09 <GregorR> I think there's a problem with netcat >_O
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00:53:01 -!- GlassBot has joined.
00:53:07 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Hi calamari!"(_o)o.?]}
01:34:39 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"I'm still alive."(_o)o.?]}
01:35:31 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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01:41:05 <GregorR> OK, now it has keepalive pings.
01:41:11 <GregorR> If that doesn't keep it, err, alive, I don't know what will :P
01:41:16 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"I'm still alive."(_o)o.?]}
01:45:46 <GregorR> Hmm, I think my ping rate is too high ...
01:45:48 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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01:57:56 <GregorR> OH BLOODY HELL!!! Just noticed something big I missed in glass :P
02:10:54 <GregorR> I just disconnected glassbot ...
02:19:21 -!- GlassBot2 has joined.
02:19:55 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"GlassBot, go away!"(_o)o.?]}
02:29:02 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:29:06 -!- GlassBot2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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02:30:15 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #test"(_o)o.?]}
02:30:32 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"^PART #test"(_o)o.?]}
02:31:18 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"^NOTICE #esoteric OMGWTF Gregor rawx0rs ROFLMAOOLOLOLOL"(_o)o.?]}
02:31:23 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"^NOTICE #esoteric :OMGWTF Gregor rawx0rs ROFLMAOOLOLOLOL"(_o)o.?]}
02:32:13 * GregorR renames #esoteric to #glassbottestchannel
02:39:15 <lament> just #bottestchannel will do.
03:10:38 <calamari> never figured out how to respond to server pings correctly tho
03:13:35 <GregorR> (Technically you should use PONG :<hostname>, but localhost works fine)
03:14:10 <GregorR> That's what GlassBot does.
03:14:32 <GregorR> 99.999% of IRC servers ignore what the hostname is and just go with it.
03:16:39 <calamari> GregorR: please ctcp version me
03:17:57 <GregorR> IRP programming in action ;)
03:23:02 -!- BFBot has joined.
03:25:02 <calamari> hehe, I don't remember how to work a bot I wrote only 2 years ago
03:31:55 -!- BFBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:48:02 -!- kipple has quit ("See you later").
03:48:37 <calamari> weird.. it's sending the replies, but they are not getting through
03:49:05 <GregorR> calamari: Can you send me the sourcecode.
03:49:17 <calamari> sure.. it's not pretty tho! :)
03:51:15 <calamari> I used to hate Java.. it's like my brain played a trick on me
03:52:07 <Robdgreat> it's only appropriate that a bfbot be written in bf
03:55:29 <GregorR> It would be faster for me to just write it in C++ :P
03:56:14 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Or Glass!"(_o)o.?]}
03:56:22 <GregorR> Good suggestion, GlassBot!
03:57:38 <Robdgreat> it's something it never would have occurred to me to attempt
03:57:53 <GregorR> I usually cheat and use netcat :P
03:59:07 <Robdgreat> and you wrote all that yesterday? or had it been in the wokrs for a while?
03:59:36 <GregorR> Approx. 500 of those were today :P
04:00:21 <Robdgreat> so... what's the point of Glass, in a nutshell?
04:00:54 <GregorR> It's object-oriented, stack-based, uses postfix notation and heavily uses pointers. This is a combination that hasn't (AFAIK) been done before, because it's utterly nonsensical.
04:01:30 <GregorR> It's sort of a combo between C++, ASM and Brainfuck :P
04:02:08 <GregorR> But anyway, GlassBot has a cache, and that's why it's so awesome.
04:02:12 <GregorR> So I can do a fibonacci like this:
04:02:25 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_f)(Fib)!<20>(_f)(fib).?]}
04:02:27 <GlassBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
04:03:00 <Robdgreat> I've decided i'm going to attempt to use my phone as a portable development device
04:03:27 <Robdgreat> But I have to work with what I have right now
04:03:36 <GregorR> I will never understand why they made Java the primary development language for embedded devices like phones.
04:04:08 <Robdgreat> Theirs is not to wonder why, theirs is but to do and die.
04:09:58 <Robdgreat> Theirs is not to reason why, theirs is but to do and die.
04:10:00 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"What?"(_o)o.?]}
04:10:34 <Robdgreat> and I realized how long it's been since I took an English lit class
04:19:20 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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04:30:37 -!- GlassBot has quit (Success).
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04:49:38 <GregorR> /quit YAY! I DID IT! I QUIT!
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05:12:25 <GregorR> Whoops, killed the wrong bot XD
05:12:39 -!- BFBot has joined.
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05:13:18 <GregorR> BF! >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
05:13:52 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot: !<false>, GlassBot: G!<Glass>, BFBot: BF!<BF>.
05:14:07 -!- wildhalcyo has joined.
05:14:10 <lament> now i guess the task is to combine them
05:14:11 -!- wildhalcyo has changed nick to wildhalcyon.
05:14:21 <GregorR> I was considering trying to write a BF interpreter in Glass.
05:14:24 <lament> what are glassbot and bfbot written in?
05:14:30 <GregorR> That way, GlassBot could double as BFBot.
05:14:40 <GregorR> BFBot is in terrible C++ :)
05:14:45 <GregorR> GlassBot is in somewhat decent C++
05:14:52 <GregorR> The networking is ousted to netcat.
05:15:01 <lament> you implemented the irc protocol!
05:15:26 <GregorR> I only support input of two commands, and output of about three :P
05:15:37 <wildhalcyon> My computer decided to die tonight... gregor, it pains me
05:15:49 * GregorR is the gnome who lives inside of wildhalcyon's computer.
05:15:56 <GregorR> I still hate your computer btw ;)
05:16:42 <wildhalcyon> you better, its SOOOOO evil. I'll burn you if you're the gnome
05:17:38 <GregorR> I wrote that all with no testing, it worked the first time :) :) :)
05:17:49 <GregorR> You know what that means? That means I've written too many BF interpreters :P
05:21:20 <wildhalcyon> Hey, I've got an idea - write a program which accepts another program as input. If the program does not have an infinite loop, crash my computer, otherwise dont.
05:21:52 <GregorR> lol, it's the halting problem and your evil computer all in one 8-D
05:22:05 <GregorR> BF! ++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>+++++.+.>+.<-.>>---.<++++++.++++++++++++++.>--------------.>--.<<++++.>++.>+.<--------------------------------.<<.>>-------------------.>+++++++++.--.<++.<<+++++++.>.++++++++++++++++.<+.-.>.-.<+.>>>--.<+.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++++.<-------.
05:22:06 <BFBot> !"G!{M[m(_o)O!<20>(_o)(on).?]}"
05:22:59 <lament> wanna see something very stupid?
05:23:12 <lament> ["G! {M[m(_o)O!":g;!"(_o)o.?]}"]g:
05:23:22 <lament> ["G! {M[m(_o)O!"!g;!"(_o)o.?]}"]g:
05:23:33 <lament> !["G! {M[m(_o)O!"!g;!"(_o)o.?]}"]g:
05:23:51 <GregorR> Are you trying to start a nasty evil loop? :)
05:24:06 <GregorR> It's the quotes-in-quotes, right?
05:24:25 <lament> !["G! {M[m(_o)O!" '", "!g;!" '", "(_o)o.?]}"]g:
05:24:36 <GregorR> I don't like where this is going :P
05:25:03 <falsebot> ["G! {M[m(_o)O!" '", "!g;!" '", "(_o)o.?]}"]
05:25:30 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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05:26:01 <GregorR> Thank you for showing me that I don't have a terrible memory leak ;)
05:26:09 <GregorR> (/me was topping it all along)
05:26:30 <GregorR> falsebot should have a cache like GlassBot.
05:26:55 <GregorR> By that I mean a permanent one - one that works over invocations.
05:27:15 <GregorR> So that if somebody makes an über-rawx0r function it won't be lost ;)
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05:27:44 <lament> perhaps there should be an extension to false
05:27:52 <lament> to allow multi-character function names
05:28:00 <lament> in some backwards-compatible fashion
05:28:17 <lament> how about: a sequence of uppercase characters counts as a single identifier
05:28:46 <GregorR> That's precisely the reason why I implemented () :)
05:28:54 <lament> false doesn't use uppercase chars in any way
05:30:11 <lament> except that i use O for one of the non-ascii false commands :(
05:30:56 <lament> i don't know how to enter that!
05:31:12 <GregorR> Poor non-X11 using lament *sigh*
05:31:32 <Robdgreat> wtf is that supposed to look like?
05:31:33 <lament> i oppose non-ascii on principle
05:31:50 <lament> i'll just replace it with some other character that False doesn't use
05:32:46 <GregorR> You could just make O the exception to the exception to the rule XD
05:33:36 <lament> that would be quite horrible
05:33:44 <lament> actually false doesn't use () either
05:33:49 <lament> so i could do the same thing you did
05:33:50 <Robdgreat> mirc doesn't have a /charset command
05:34:54 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:37:32 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_o)O!"Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoxie."(_o)o.?]}
05:38:39 -!- falsebot has joined.
05:39:04 <GregorR> !"Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoxie."
05:39:15 <GregorR> All the bots love Moxie :)
05:39:15 <falsebot> Error: Can only assign to registers!
05:39:25 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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05:41:25 <lament> that was really stupid of me.
05:41:27 <falsebot> Error: string index out of range
05:41:39 <falsebot> Error: string index out of range
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05:48:50 <GregorR> What do you use for ß btw?
05:49:10 <GregorR> Ah - so the I/O is unbuffered?
05:49:18 <lament> how can it possibly be unbuffered
05:49:25 -!- Robdgreat has quit.
05:49:29 <GregorR> Just realized the implications of the fact that this is an IRC bot :P
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05:50:18 <lament> now it really needs persistent storage
05:50:53 <GregorR> We should make it so (somehow) you can call false functions from Glass and vice-versa.
05:51:25 <lament> on the contrary, i think we should make it so the bots don't listen to each other :)
05:51:31 <Robdgreat> it's always a pain getting used to a new client, but I think I'll manage
05:52:07 <GregorR> What client? (/ctcp VERSION is unsupported ...)
05:53:24 <lament> cpressey: is your false page still up somewhere?
05:59:43 <GregorR> BF! ++++++++++++[>+++>++++++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>---.+.>+++.>>+++++.++++++++++++++.<<--------------.>>-------------------
05:59:45 <GregorR> --------------------------------.<<--------------.++++++++++++++++.>>+.<<--------------------------------.<-.+.++++++++++++
05:59:47 <GregorR> +++++.+.>>++++++++.----------.<<++++++++++++++.++++.>>>--------.<<<--------.>>>++++++++++...<+++++++++..>...<.<++++++++++++
05:59:48 <GregorR> .<--.>>.>.<.>....<.+++++++++++++++++++.<----------------------------------------------.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.
05:59:50 <GregorR> >+.<++.>>>..<<---.<-------------------.>..<.>>--.-------------------------------.>..<<..+++++++++++++++++++.>--------------
05:59:51 <GregorR> -.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.---------------------------------.>>.+++.---.<<-----------------.<.>>>..<--..<+++..<.>>.
05:59:53 <GregorR> <---.>+++.++++++++++++++++...<<..>.>>.....++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<+++++++++++++++++.<....>++.>--
05:59:55 <GregorR> ---------------.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--.>+.>-----------------------------.<<<-------------
05:59:58 <GregorR> ------------------.>>>.<---.<-----------------.>.>-------------------..<..<<-------------------.>>>.<.>++++++++++++++++++++
06:00:01 <GregorR> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------.<..<.<.....>>.>++.<<<++.>>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.---
06:00:04 <GregorR> ------------------------------.<++..<<.>>+.>....--------------.<<...<+.-.>>-..>-..<.<<+.-..>>>.<..<<.>>>.<.<+++.>++++++++++
06:00:07 <GregorR> +++++++..>--.<----------------.<<-----------.>>>++++++++.+.<<--.<.++++++.>>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++
06:00:10 <GregorR> +++++++++++++.<<<+.>>>.<.+++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++.<<----------.
06:00:14 <GregorR> Should've checked the length on that XD
06:00:46 <GregorR> Well, that also efficiently killed BFBot.
06:00:50 -!- BFBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:01:12 <lament> ![[1(1(>[0$@\-\]#%]MOD:
06:01:28 <Arrogant> GregorR, does BFBot get killed by +[]
06:01:38 <lament> ![[1(1(>][0$@\-\]#%]MOD:
06:01:43 <GregorR> Arrogant: No, but it does go into an infinite loop :P
06:02:39 <lament> ![[1(1(>][$@\-\]#%]MOD:
06:03:41 <Arrogant> GregorR: Eh, that's killed enough.
06:04:11 <GregorR> I'm fixing that right now.
06:04:54 <GregorR> (Hmm, should've tested it before connecting it :P)
06:05:10 -!- BFBot has joined.
06:05:34 <lament> ![SEED;1103515245*12345+2147483648MOD;!$SEED:65536/32768MOD;!]RANDOM:
06:06:15 <falsebot> ...Endless loop?...Endless loop?21049683001993
06:06:55 <GregorR> BF! ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.[]
06:07:10 <lament> what the hell, there's no bug in my program
06:07:26 <GregorR> BF! +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>--.>>-----.>++.<+.------------.+.++++++++++.>.<<+++++++.>-----.>.[]
06:07:27 <BFBot> Is this an Infinite loop?
06:07:45 <GregorR> lament: Noooo, you couldn't write a bug! ;)
06:08:20 <lament> ![SEED;110*12+214MOD;!$SEED:65/32MOD;!]RANDOM:
06:08:39 <falsebot> ...Endless loop?...Endless loop?2334922137725321770
06:09:50 <lament> ![[1(1(\>~][$@\-\]#%]MOD:
06:10:21 <falsebot> ...Endless loop?...Endless loop?256841435150133774905
06:10:34 <lament> well, this thing does appear to generate random numbers :)
06:11:15 <GregorR> Two zeroes in a row, huh ...
06:11:19 <lament> ![SEED;1103515245*12345+2147483648MOD;!$SEED:65536/32768MOD;!]RANDOM:
06:11:47 <falsebot> ...Endless loop?...Endless loop?15033675195114
06:12:06 <lament> this might be some Python number problem
06:12:25 <lament> !SEED;2147483648MOD;!.
06:12:34 <falsebot> ...Endless loop?985246903227264716
06:12:36 <lament> it can't take the modulus
06:12:53 <falsebot> ...Endless loop?985461630116228336
06:12:57 <lament> oh, of course - it's doing it by subtractions
06:13:04 <lament> that will take forever
06:15:05 <GregorR> Do you happen to have a pseudocode link for that randomizer?
06:15:13 <lament> http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question697.htm
06:15:21 -!- Arrogant has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC").
06:16:14 <falsebot> Error: Not enough stack elements for O
06:17:30 <lament> is it just me or are odd numbers much more probable
06:17:31 <GregorR> Hmm, glass' divide function is broken ..
06:18:26 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:18:53 <lament> !100i:0[i;0>][RANDOM;!2MOD+]#.
06:18:53 <falsebot> Error: Argument to + is not a number
06:18:57 <lament> !100i:0[i;0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:19:34 <falsebot> ...Ran too long!...Ran too long!...Ran too long!...Ran too long!...Endless loop?470152865454460713
06:20:03 <lament> !100i:0[i;1-$i:0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:20:06 <lament> !100i:0[i;1-$i:0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:20:08 <lament> !100i:0[i;1-$i:0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:20:13 <lament> !100i:0[i;1-$i:0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:20:31 <lament> this says odd numbers are LESS common than even ones
06:20:35 <lament> !100i:0[i;1-$i:0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:20:48 <lament> !1000i:0[i;1-$i:0>][RANDOM;!2MOD;!+]#.
06:22:24 <lament> :[RANDOM;!2MOD;$[!%]?~[%!]?]CHOOSE:
06:22:26 -!- GlassBot has joined.
06:22:27 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;$[!%]?~[%!]?]CHOOSE:
06:22:39 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:23:20 <falsebot> Error: Condition of ? is not a number
06:24:24 <GregorR> G! {(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,]}
06:24:52 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]#;!
06:25:35 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?]}
06:25:36 -!- GlassBot has quit (Success).
06:25:38 <falsebot> [SEED;1103515245*12345+2147483648MOD;!$SEED:65536/32768MOD;!]
06:25:56 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:27:23 -!- falsebot has joined.
06:27:53 <lament> ![SEED;1103515245*12345+2147483648MOD;!$SEED:65536/32768MOD;!]RANDOM:
06:28:05 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;$[!%]?~[%!]?]CHOOSE:
06:28:13 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:28:13 <falsebot> Error: Condition of ? is not a number
06:28:25 <falsebot> Error: Condition of ? is not a number
06:28:33 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!$[!%]?~[%!]?]CHOOSE:
06:28:35 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:28:35 <falsebot> Error: Argument to ! is not a function
06:29:12 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!$[\!%]?~[%!]?]CHOOSE:
06:29:14 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:29:14 <falsebot> Error: Argument to ~ is not a number
06:29:47 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!$[%!%1_]?~[%!]?]CHOOSE:
06:29:48 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:30:00 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!.
06:30:11 <lament> ah, life is a glorious cycle of song.
06:30:36 <GregorR> Am I insane? % DOES do mod in C++, right?
06:32:25 <GregorR> Hmm, doesn't explain why it crashed though.
06:33:29 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!0=$[2(!]?~[1(!]?%%]CHOOSE:
06:33:33 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:35:54 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!$[2(!]?~[!]?%%]CHOOSE:
06:35:56 <falsebot> Error: Argument to ! is not a function
06:39:58 <lament> aah, this approach won't work at all!
06:40:03 -!- GlassBot has joined.
06:40:08 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:40:10 <GlassBot> 18657 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:40:16 <GregorR> Hmm, that's not very random ...
06:40:34 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Rand""rand"(_d)(fc).?]}
06:40:36 <GlassBot> (_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?
06:41:53 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!0=$[2(t:]?~[$t:]%%t;!]CHOOSE:
06:42:11 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!0=$[2(t:]?~[$t:]?%%t;!]CHOOSE:
06:42:38 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!0=$[3(t:]?~[$t:]?%%t;!]CHOOSE:
06:42:41 <falsebot> Error: Not enough stack elements for O
06:43:00 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!0=$[2(t:]?~[$t:]?%%t;!]CHOOSE:
06:43:12 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!.
06:43:15 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:43:17 <GregorR> I have no idea why my randomizer isn't working :P
06:43:33 <lament> i have no idea why mine isn't, either
06:43:49 <GregorR> G! {(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:44:07 <GregorR> G! {(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:44:43 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:45:35 -!- GlassBot has joined.
06:45:36 <GregorR> Takes so long to connect to freenode ...
06:45:41 <GregorR> G! {(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:46:04 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?,(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:46:06 <GlassBot> 5.51759e+090 6.08874e+180 6.71902e+270 7.41454e+3684193 8.18206e+459.29083e+13 9.02903e+541.02526e+23 9.96367e+631.13139e+32 1.09951e+731.2485e+41 1.21332e+821.37774e+50 1.33892e+911.52036e+59 1.47752e+1001.67774e+68 1.63046e+1091.85141e+77 1.79924e+1182.04306e+86 1.98549e+1272.25455e+95 2.19102e+1362.48793e+104 2.41782e+1452.74547e+113 2.6681e+1543.02966e+122 2.94429e+1633.34328e+131 3.24907e+1723.68936e+140 3.5854e+1814.07127e+149 3.95654e+1904.4927
06:46:17 <GregorR> Oh, I should be flooring it.
06:47:29 -!- falsebot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:47:31 -!- falsebot has joined.
06:47:53 <lament> ![SEED;1103515245*12345+2147483648MOD;!$SEED:65536/32768MOD;!]RANDOM:
06:47:58 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:48:03 <lament> ![RANDOM;!2MOD;!0=$[2(t:]?~[$t:]?%%t;!]CHOOSE:
06:48:16 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:18 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:19 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:20 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:23 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:25 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:28 <lament> !["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!
06:48:33 -!- GlassBot has joined.
06:48:35 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?(_a)f.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:48:38 <GlassBot> 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
06:48:49 <lament> with this seed, the first few hits are much more likely to be tails (odd)
06:48:51 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:48:52 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:48:54 <lament> but then it evens outs
06:49:04 <GregorR> With my randomizer, something is totally broken :P
06:49:08 <lament> ![["heads"]["tails"]CHOOSE;!]HT:
06:49:25 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!<1.1>(_a)f.?(_o)(on).?]}
06:49:44 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!<1.1>(_a)f.?(_o)(on).?]}
06:50:11 <GregorR> Oh wait, I know what went wrong.
06:50:19 <GregorR> My cache screwed up my builtins ...
06:50:52 <GregorR> G!{A[a~A.a~][s~A.s~][m~A.m~][d~A.d~][(mod)~A.mod~][f~A.f~][e~A.e~][(ne)~A.ne~][(lt)~A.lt~][(le)~A.le~][(gt)~A.gt~][(ge)~A.ge~]}
06:50:55 <lament> !100[1-$0>][['\,]['/,]CHOOSE;!]#
06:50:55 <falsebot> ///\\/\/////////\//\/\\///\/\/\\///\\\\/\\/\/\\\/\\//\\/\/\/\//\\\/////\////\\/\\/\/\/\//\//\\\\/\/
06:50:58 <GregorR> G! {M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!<1.1>(_a)f.?(_o)(on).?]}
06:51:07 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!<1.1>(_a)f.?(_o)(on).?]}
06:51:14 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:51:16 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:51:42 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?(_a)f.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:51:47 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:51:49 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:52:41 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:52:46 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:52:48 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:52:57 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:52:58 <GlassBot> 5.51759e+090 6.08874e+180 6.71902e+270 7.41454e+360 8.18206e+450 9.02903e+540 9.96367e+630 1.09951e+730 1.21332e+820 1.33892e+910 1.47752e+1000 1.63046e+1090 1.79924e+1180 1.98549e+1270 2.19102e+1360 2.41782e+1450 2.6681e+1540 2.94429e+1630 3.24907e+1720 3.5854e+1810 3.95654e+1900 4.36611e+1990 4.81807e+2080 5.31681e+2170 5.86718e+2260 6.47452e+2350 7.14473e+2440 7.88432e+2530 8.70047e+2620 9.6011e+2710 1.0595e+2810 1.16917e+2900 1.2902e+2990 1.42375e
06:53:36 <lament> ![$t:RANDOM;!\MOD;!(p:t;[1-0>][%]#]CHOOSE:
06:53:43 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
06:53:49 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:53:50 <falsebot> Error: Argument to - is not a number
06:53:51 <GlassBot> 18657 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06:54:26 <lament> ![$t:RANDOM;!\MOD;!(p:t;[1-$0>][\%]#%]CHOOSE:
06:55:48 <GregorR> I'll bet the fact that it uses floating points internally is F'ing it up.
06:56:55 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
06:56:56 <GlassBot> 5.51759e+0918657 6.08874e+180 6.71902e+270 7.41454e+360 8.18206e+450 9.02903e+540 9.96367e+630 1.09951e+730 1.21332e+820 1.33892e+910 1.47752e+1000 1.63046e+1090 1.79924e+1180 1.98549e+1270 2.19102e+1360 2.41782e+1450 2.6681e+1540 2.94429e+1630 3.24907e+1720 3.5854e+1810 3.95654e+1900 4.36611e+1990 4.81807e+2080 5.31681e+2170 5.86718e+2260 6.47452e+2350 7.14473e+2440 7.88432e+2530 8.70047e+2620 9.6011e+2710 1.0595e+2810 1.16917e+2900 1.2902e+2990 1.42
06:57:59 <lament> ![$t:RANDOM;!\MOD;!(p:t;1+[1-$0>][\%]#%p;!]CHOOSE:
06:58:35 <lament> ![["heads"]["tails"]2CHOOSE;!]HT:
07:00:02 <lament> !100[$1-][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',]['[][']]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:02:13 <lament> !100[$1-][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][']]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:02:36 <lament> !100[$1-][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][93]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:03:44 <lament> !100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][93]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:03:58 <falsebot> ,.[][]]>.><-->[>][-]....+.>+<--->+-],]>-++-.--<[<+-[]<.]>,..<><>>]<<,<>>,,<>[]>]>+<.[<,>+-,[<[]<..[
07:04:21 <lament> !"B!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][93]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:04:21 <falsebot> B!-[>,>[><+-[>[>[<]-,]+,],<,>+<.>.<<-<,,[+<-]>>+,,<.[--+<.++->+],+<-[].>[]>]-<++<[<+.<+<]<.[-+.]<<>[>
07:04:33 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][93]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:04:33 <falsebot> BF!.[.[,[.+[<+].,,[]<<.-]<+]]+.],-.[+.>[],-.-+>[>.,[,-[.>>]<.<[[+<>,++.+,>]<-+[.+>>]+[,.->-->->,+[,+,[
07:05:01 <lament> does it like my program?
07:05:53 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?32768(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:05:56 <lament> BF!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
07:06:04 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][93]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:06:04 <falsebot> BF!+][],,<>][++>+,.->[<,+<>-,..-.-]>]-<,<+>.,<<,,<.,[<,[.]..,<.>-.]>+,.>-><.<.-[++,[<-+[+<+,,,.]<>..[-
07:06:12 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.][',][91][93]8CHOOSE;!,]#
07:06:13 <falsebot> BF!-],,]<<[-.<+<.>,,.-+.,,,,[+<]],.,]][,]-[<]<+,]<<]>].>[[]][>+<.[+>+<,.+-.>,>>.<,-<.[<-,]-+[,]]-+.<<<
07:06:28 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.]5CHOOSE;!,]#
07:06:29 <falsebot> BF!-+-><<.+>-...<.->-.<>-..-----.<++--<-+.>.+--<><-<<<>---+-++-+.>.++>.->-<+>-><<.->+>-+>.+<..+-+-<+<+
07:06:29 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:06:31 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
07:06:41 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<D]['>]['+]['-]['.]5CHOOSE;!,]#
07:06:41 <falsebot> Error: Argument to , is not a number
07:06:45 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?,(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:06:47 <GlassBot> 00 123450 00 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450 00.188373 123450
07:07:11 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.]5CHOOSE;!,]#
07:07:11 <falsebot> BF!-><+<><.>>.+.<<-+.+><-.<>>+.--+....<>+-..-.><>>-<><-<...+-+++-->+...+-++.+-+++--.>><>.>><+>-><>>->+
07:07:28 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['<]['>]['+]['-]['.]5CHOOSE;!,]#
07:07:28 <falsebot> BF!><+><+<-<.-<<<+><><->-+<-+..--><>++->>.<---.<-+<.+-><->>..-><-<<>>.-<-<<+>+>---<..+><+>+<>-<+++++>.
07:07:45 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['>]['+]['.]3CHOOSE;!,]#
07:07:45 <falsebot> BF!.+.+...++..>>>..+>+>.+>>..++.+>..>..>+.+>.>>+>++++.++.+.>>>.+>..+>>..+>.+>..>>+.++++.>>+.++.>>+>>++
07:07:58 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['>]['+]['.]3CHOOSE;!,]#
07:07:58 <falsebot> BF!>.+..>+.++.+>>..>.+.++.++.>..+>+>>>+>..+++>>>>+>>.>+>+++.>...>+>+>>>>+>>.>...+.>>..>..>..>.>.>.+..>
07:08:10 <GregorR> I don't know why it seems to ignore some things though ...
07:08:41 <GregorR> Well, actually, it can't output \0, \1, etc.
07:09:37 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:09:45 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?,(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:09:46 <GlassBot> 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345
07:09:58 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:09:59 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
07:10:33 <lament> ![[$0>][\$@1-]#%]REPEAT:
07:11:06 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?<4000000000000>(_a)(mod).?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:11:11 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][['>]['+20REPEAT;!]['.]3CHOOSE;!,]#
07:11:18 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?,(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:11:20 <GlassBot> 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345 0 12345
07:11:30 <GregorR> Clearly it doesn't like being mod'd :P
07:13:23 <lament> !"BF!"100[1-$][[">"]["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]3CHOOSE;!]#
07:13:31 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][[">"]["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]3CHOOSE;!]#
07:13:31 <falsebot> BF!.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>..>.++++++++++++++++++++++
07:13:37 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][[">"]["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]3CHOOSE;!]#
07:13:37 <falsebot> BF!.++++++++++++++++++++++>.>++++++++++++++++++++++>>.
07:13:43 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][[">"]["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]3CHOOSE;!]#
07:13:43 <falsebot> BF!>++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
07:14:01 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]2CHOOSE;!]#
07:14:01 <falsebot> BF!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
07:14:10 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]2CHOOSE;!]#
07:14:10 <falsebot> BF!++++++++++++++++++++++...++++++++++++++++++++++....
07:14:26 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]2CHOOSE;!]#
07:14:27 <falsebot> BF!++++++++++++++++++++++...++++++++++++++++++++++....
07:14:31 <lament> !"BF!"10[1-$][["++++++++++++++++++++++"]["."]2CHOOSE;!]#
07:14:31 <falsebot> BF!.++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++...++++++++++++++++++++++.
07:14:46 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:14:53 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?,(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:14:54 <GlassBot> 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345 12345
07:14:59 <falsebot> [$t:RANDOM;!\MOD;!(p:t;1+[1-$0>][\%]#%p;!]
07:15:10 <lament> ![$t:RANDOM;!\MOD;!(p:t;1+[1-$0>][\%]#%p;]CHOOSE:
07:15:35 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:15:39 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?,(_r)(sis).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:15:40 <GlassBot> 5.51759e+09 6.08874e+18 6.71902e+27 7.41454e+36 8.18206e+45 9.02903e+54 9.96367e+63 1.09951e+73 1.21332e+82 1.33892e+91 1.47752e+100 1.63046e+109 1.79924e+118 1.98549e+127 2.19102e+136 2.41782e+145 2.6681e+154 2.94429e+163 3.24907e+172 3.5854e+181 3.95654e+190 4.36611e+199 4.81807e+208 5.31681e+217 5.86718e+226 6.47452e+235 7.14473e+244 7.88432e+253 8.70047e+262 9.6011e+271 1.0595e+281 1.16917e+290 1.2902e+299 1.42375e+308 inf inf inf inf inf inf inf
07:16:25 <falsebot> [SEED;1103515245*12345+2147483648MOD;!$SEED:65536/32768MOD;!]
07:16:29 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:16:30 <GlassBot> 18657 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
07:16:42 <GregorR> OH, I know what's happening!
07:16:46 <GregorR> It's losing its precision!
07:17:39 <lament> will be your downfall.
07:17:45 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<1000000000000000000>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:17:53 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:17:55 <GlassBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
07:18:47 <GregorR> Oh, duh, my mod function is using ints, so it loses all of its bigitude right there :P
07:19:39 <lament> ![t:p:[t;0>][p;!t;1-t:]#]LOOP:
07:21:02 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
07:21:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Rand"(_d)(fl).?]}
07:21:21 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Rand""c__"(_d)(fc).?]}
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07:28:49 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<5000000000000000000>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:29:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:29:13 <GlassBot> 18657 26950 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638 -25638
07:29:29 <GregorR> The instant it mod'd it lost its randomness.
07:30:53 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(sis)(_o)O!s*(_o)(on).?]}
07:30:59 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:31:00 <GlassBot> 18656 30089 22979 10681 18963 18528 10129 204 10102 2219 29390 20531 8520 11391 12782 7246 13364 13699 6101 10606 16118 4372 24025 32245 17625 27907 15053 31242 3655 21136 16068 24799 1289 14449 22746 24376 1534 22060 29290 11153 9689 27500 12517 8084 20630 1266 23334 19823 23681 1870
07:31:27 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!<50>(_r)(seed).?(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:31:28 <GlassBot> 22716 9369 5178 13703 313 24778 30249 19831 2330 10763 17959 19934 6072 16589 23374 23654 2987 27709 18292 13818 8819 1452 5983 30575 5181 12438 32418 17284 9782 8652 10334 20245 3989 14688 6988 440 25230 1603 30390 28114 17274 32502 28099 13912 135 12921 29246 28621 24833 1260
07:31:40 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Rand)!(_o)O!(_a)A!<25>(_r)(seed).?(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_r)(rand).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:31:42 <GlassBot> 27742 31803 14668 5182 3767 19523 14190 23062 23698 8364 18435 8383 28390 25724 19847 14991 32255 11759 25030 487 2119 15417 17586 8094 9229 16140 26962 20015 935 21984 32299 31669 24240 6157 5309 5486 14384 22418 28353 26059 9220 14099 15814 23379 17979 6470 18990 15081 4652 20874
07:32:00 <GregorR> Hopefully that's a random number generator ;)
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07:39:15 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(randi)(_a)A!(_t)$(_min)2=(_max)1=,,(_max)*(_min)*(_a)s.?<1>(_a)a.?(_t)(rand).?(_a)m.?<32768>(_a)d.?]}
07:39:31 <BFBot> <CTCP>Infinite loop?
07:39:53 <nooga> [08:39] [BFBot:#esoteric Infinite] loop?
07:40:04 <nooga> i think it's finite
07:40:20 <GregorR> It is, but BFBot can't solve the halting problem ;)
07:40:40 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_r)(Rand)!<1><10>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?]}
07:40:49 <GregorR> Hmm, that's unnecessarily specific :P
07:40:51 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_r)(Rand)!<1><10>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?]}
07:41:07 <nooga> man, congrats. glass i sooooo cool
07:41:15 <calamari> was rewriting it, guess you beat me :)
07:41:32 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(randi)(_a)A!(_t)$(_min)2=(_max)1=,,(_max)*(_min)*(_a)s.?<1>(_a)a.?(_t)(rand).?(_a)m.?<32768>(_a)d.?(_a)f.?]}
07:42:06 <nooga> do you suggest any style of glass code?
07:42:23 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)<1><10>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:42:24 <GlassBot> 5 9 7 3 5 5 3 0 3 0 8 6 2 3 3 2 4 4 1 3 4 1 7 9 5 8 4 9 1 6 4 7 0 4 6 7 0 6 8 3 2 8 3 2 6 0 7 6 7 0
07:42:31 <GregorR> There are two recommendable styles...
07:42:39 <GregorR> One is like the above: no spaces, all ugly.
07:42:48 <GregorR> I'll pastebin a link to the other ...
07:43:45 <nooga> SADOL gets evry clear when you format code like this
07:45:08 <GregorR> Yeah, Glass like that isn't bad.
07:46:22 <nooga> going to write 99bottles -.-'
07:47:06 <GregorR> G!{(Rand)[(c__)s<5>=][(rand)(_a)A!ss*<1103515245>(_a)m.?<4294967295>(_a)(mod).?<12345>(_a)a.?=s*<65535>(_a)d.?<32768>(_a)(mod).?][(seed)s1=,][(randi)(_a)A!(_t)$(_min)2=(_max)1=,,(_min)*(_max)*(_min)*(_a)s.?<1>(_a)a.?(_t)(rand).?(_a)m.?<32768>(_a)d.?(_a)a.?(_a)f.?]}
07:47:14 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)<1><10>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]}
07:47:15 <GlassBot> 6 10 8 4 6 6 4 1 4 1 9 7 3 4 4 3 5 5 2 4 5 2 8 10 6 9 5 10 2 7 5 8 1 5 7 8 1 7 9 4 3 9 4 3 7 1 8 7 8 1
07:48:16 <nooga> i'll write sadolbot :>
07:48:43 <GregorR> The more bots the merrier!
07:50:01 <GregorR> BTW, the advantage of GlassBot and falsebot is that they can store functions/classes for later use.
07:50:25 <GregorR> So languages without that capacity are a bit less useful as bots :P
07:51:20 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_a)A!(_o)O!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)<0><1>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=\]} 'this should flip a coin :)'
07:51:21 <GlassBot> 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 0
07:55:06 <nooga> now discussion gets more esoteric
07:56:42 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA!"(_o)o.?]}
07:58:00 <GregorR> BTW, nooga, if you need any help with 99-bob, feel free to ask / post borked code :)
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08:07:19 <GregorR> BTW calamari, ! will trigger falsebot, so you should probably use something else ;)
08:07:27 <falsebot> Error: Body of ? is not a function
08:07:59 <GregorR> lament should switch falsebot to F! :)
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08:11:54 <GregorR> What language is it doing?
08:12:27 <calamari> I'm still thinking of the language actually
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08:12:52 <GregorR> lament: You wouldn't have to if I didn't start up a chain of bots ;)
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08:13:20 <calamari> it should be able to handle multiple, like EsoShell
08:13:48 <calamari> will also be able to list active processes and kill them if they hang
08:13:51 <lament> calamari: i was going to add other languages to falsebot
08:14:11 <lament> but i'm perfectly content if you do it instead :)
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08:16:36 <calamari> maybe a very high density language.. get as much code as possible into one line
08:17:03 <GregorR> Glass is relatively high-density *shrugs*
08:17:19 <calamari> bf is low.. need a lot to do very little
08:17:37 <lament> calamari: false is perfect :)
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08:18:36 <lament> wouter's interpreter supports unlimited memory
08:19:06 <lament> mine doesn't, mostly beacuse i'm afraid of somebody taking up all of it. But changing that is one line of code.
08:19:38 <lament> more specifically, false is TC if the commands : and ; can take a numerical argument
08:20:07 <lament> well, this particular false is also TC because it has bignums.
08:20:38 <calamari> I can still use all your memory >:)
08:21:07 <calamari> although not really, because I think there is a limit to the length of a line
08:22:11 <lament> run this in an infinite loop: [$*]
08:22:49 <lament> the number will keep growing
08:23:03 <lament> the program is very short :)
08:23:35 <lament> but of course falsebot will stop eventually since it doesn't like infinite loops.
08:24:59 <lament> ![t:p:[t;0>][p;!t;1-t:]#]LOOP:
08:25:10 <lament> F![t:p:[t;0>][p;!t;1-t:]#]LOOP:
08:25:44 <lament> grows quite quickly, too :)
08:25:58 <falsebot> 340282366920938463463374607431768211456
08:26:02 <falsebot> 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936
08:26:07 <falsebot> 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096
08:26:34 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT"(_o)o.?]}
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08:27:31 <lament> F!2[$*]200LOOP;!"done"
08:28:01 <lament> 40% of memory eaten already
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08:28:22 <calamari> lament: how long do you allow a line to be before it's considered a flood?
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08:28:38 <lament> but in that last case, i simply didn't output the number
08:28:44 <lament> so it could grow as long as it pleased
08:28:56 <lament> and take all the memory
08:29:13 <lament> that issue should be addressed i guess.
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08:44:14 <GregorR> G!{(Arre)[(c__)v<0>=n<0>=][sv1=][gv*][(sn)n1=][(gn)n*]}{(Arr)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Arre)!][s(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_v)*(_c)*s.?][g(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt
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08:44:16 <GregorR> )*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_c)*g.?]}
08:44:58 <GregorR> Oh, I know what I did wrong XD
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08:52:41 <GregorR> G!{(Arre)[(c__)v<0>=n<0>=][sv1=][gv*][(sn)n1=][(gn)n*]}{(Arr)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Arre)!][s(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_v)*(_c)*s.?][g(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt
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08:52:44 <GregorR> )*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_c)*g.?]}
08:58:07 <GregorR> I can't believe I made the same mistake twice!!!
08:58:21 <GregorR> calamari: It's my remake of LLLs in Glass :)
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08:59:46 <GregorR> G!{(Arre)[(c__)v<0>=n<0>=][sv1=][gv*][(sn)n1=][(gn)n*]}
08:59:53 <GregorR> G!{(Arr)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Arre)!][s(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_v)*(_c)*s.?][g(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_c)*g.?]
09:00:11 <GregorR> G!{m[m(_d)(Debug)!"Arr"(_d)(fl).?]}
09:00:18 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Arr"(_d)(fl).?]}
09:00:36 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Arr""g"(_d)(fc).?]}
09:00:37 <GlassBot> (_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_v)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_c)*g.?
09:00:43 <GregorR> OK, that seems to have made it ...
09:02:16 <GregorR> G!{(Arr)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Arre)!][s(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=(_val)1=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_val)*(_c)*s.?][g(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)2=,,(_c)h*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)(_c)*(gn)<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<1>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*(_c)(sn).?\(_c)(_c)*(gn).?=\(_c)*g.?]}
09:02:56 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Arr)!(_o)O!<5><10>(_r)s.?<5>(_r)g.?(_o)(on).?]}
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09:07:04 <GregorR> Seems my V class is busted.
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09:08:02 <SadolBot> Hello everyone :) -- usage: SAD!<code> -- Have fun!
09:08:29 <nooga> SAD! (2:a0@<:a+a19!a
09:09:31 <nooga> SAD!!",212Hello world!
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09:09:37 <GregorR> OMFGWTF Glass > Sadol roflmaoololololol ;)
09:09:43 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Arr)!(_o)O!<5><10>(_r)s.?<5>(_r)g.?(_o)(on).?]}
09:09:57 <GregorR> OK, the Arr class I made is busted :P
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09:13:35 <nooga> i must think about breaking infinite loops
09:15:06 <GregorR> G!{(Arr)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Arre)!][l(_a)A!(_v)V!(_n)1=,ch*=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_nnxt)c*(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_nnxt)(_nnxt)<0>=(_nxt)(_v)n.?=(_nxt)*(Arre)!(_nxt)*c(sn).?\cc*(gn).?=\][s(_t)$(_n)2=(_val)1=,,(_n)*(_t)l.?(_val)*c*s.?][g(_t)$(_n)1=,(_n)*(_t)l.?c*g.?]}
09:15:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_r)(Arr)!(_o)O!<5><10>(_r)s.?<5>(_r)g.?(_o)(on).?]}
09:21:45 <nooga> i must write bash script
09:25:00 <GregorR> I think my BF in Glass will be too big to paste into IRC :P
09:33:52 <nooga> you like bash, right?
09:34:29 <nooga> tell me how to check if that $VARIABLE is bigger than '0:30'
09:34:43 <calamari> GregorR: do you allow printing multiple lines of text?
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09:36:21 <SadolBot> Hello everyone :) -- usage: SAD!<code> -- Have fun!
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09:37:54 <nooga> i must write something that kills BDSM if that the time of execution is greater than 20 seconds
09:42:24 <calamari> what do you guys think.. should output be forced onto one line, 300 chars max?
09:43:49 <calamari> or is printing multiple lines ok?
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11:49:26 <Keymaker> BF!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
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12:39:42 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
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15:04:15 <fizzie> How does that bot output '\r's? CRs, I mean.
15:04:41 <calamari> it probably doesn't output everything correctly
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15:05:19 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
15:07:19 <calamari> E!bf ,----------[++++++++++.,----------]
15:08:39 <calamari> I should probably have it output even without the terminating lf
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15:10:30 <fizzie> It's just that iirc (some) IRC servers interpret simple CRs as newlines (in addition to the official crlf), and outputting "\rQUIT :blah\r" without escaping the CRs wouldn't be wise.
15:10:52 <calamari> oic.. I should porbably disable \r then
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15:11:09 <fizzie> Whoa. Only 50 minutes left before shops close, and no food. This calls for immediate action. ->
15:11:18 <calamari> E!bf ,----------[++++++++++.,----------]
15:11:44 <calamari> E!bf ,----------[++++++++++.,----------]
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15:14:20 <calamari> there.. now it's just \n and \\
15:15:12 <calamari> although I'll need to filter the output as well
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15:19:27 <calamari> E!bf ,----------[++++++++++.,----------]
15:20:08 <calamari> E!bf +.++++++++++++.------------.
15:20:44 <calamari> ok.. filter all < 32 except 10 :)
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15:26:03 <calamari> E!bf +.++++++++++++.------------.
15:26:11 <calamari> E!bf +.++++++++++++.------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:26:36 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:27:13 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:28:24 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
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15:32:25 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
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15:44:17 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
15:44:26 <calamari> E!bf +.++++++++++++.------------.
15:44:34 <calamari> E!bf +.++++++++++++.------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:46:23 -!- nooga has joined.
15:46:28 <calamari> E!bf >++++[<++++++++>-]>++++++++[>++++<-]>>++>>>+>>>+<<<<<<<<<<[-[->+<]>[-<+>>>.<<]>>>[[->++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<[->+<]+>[->++++++++++<<+>]>.[-]>]]+<<<[-[->+<]+>[-<+>>>-[->+<]++>[-<->]<<<]<<<<]++++++++++.+++.[-]<]++[-][-.]
15:46:51 <EsoBot> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15:47:08 <EsoBot> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15:47:15 <EsoBot> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15:47:20 <EsoBot> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15:47:24 <EsoBot> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15:47:46 <calamari> lol.. it doesn't kill very well with I/O like that, does it
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15:50:59 <calamari> E!bf >++++[<++++++++>-]>++++++++[>++++<-]>>++>>>+>>>+<<<<<<<<<<[-[->+<]>[-<+>>>.<<]>>>[[->++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<[->+<]+>[->++++++++++<<+>]>.[-]>]]+<<<[-[->+<]+>[-<+>>>-[->+<]++>[-<->]<<<]<<<<]++++++++++.+++.[-]<]++[-][-.]
15:51:49 <EsoBot> Commands: help, ps, kill, quit, test.
15:52:57 -!- EsoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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15:54:05 <calamari> I need to go to bed tho.. and it's 8am :/
15:55:15 -!- calamari has quit ("<=K").
16:07:16 -!- EsoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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17:57:51 <ihope> Discovery: (log ((log ((b^(a^x))^(a^y)))/(log b)))/(log a) = x + y for all x and y and for all a and b except 0 and 1.
17:58:16 <ihope> Half the credit goes to Safalra on that one.
18:05:10 <ihope> Or maybe all of it, or none of it. No idea really.
18:11:52 <ihope> Now who are BFBot, EsoBot, falsebot and GlassBot?
18:20:44 -!- ihope has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]").
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19:16:32 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"I'm still alive!"(_o)o.?]}
19:26:19 <wildhalcyon> I really need to sit down and study glass, but it wont be today
19:26:37 <wildhalcyon> In my not-so-educated opinion, I think its the best OOEL
19:27:01 <GregorR> WELL, it doesn't have interfaces or derivation yet, so I would be forced to disagree ;)
19:30:18 <wildhalcyon> Keep finessing... Aside from alphanumeric, what characters havent you used yet?
19:32:57 <wildhalcyon> I think % might be a good one for derivation.
19:33:02 <wildhalcyon> I dont love OO enough to understand interfaces
19:33:46 <GregorR> It really doesn't have a lot of operations, since I offloaded everything to builtin classes XD
19:34:26 <GregorR> Oh, you want to add two and two? You need the A class :P
19:39:01 <wildhalcyon> Ideally, that's how an OO language should behave if you take it to the extreme
19:39:17 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_a)A!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?<0><1>(_r)(randi).?\]}
19:39:25 <GregorR> I don't know if I would agree with the term "ideally"
19:39:40 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?<0><1>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?\]}
19:40:18 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Rand"(_d)(fl).?]}
19:40:25 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Rand""randi"(_d)(fc).?]}
19:40:26 <GlassBot> (_a)A!(_t)$(_min)2=(_max)1=,,(_min)*(_max)*(_min)*(_a)s.?<1>(_a)a.?(_t)(rand).?(_a)m.?<32768>(_a)d.?(_a)a.?(_a)f.?
19:40:41 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?<0><1>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?\]}
19:41:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=<0><1>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?\]}
19:41:26 <GregorR> Oh dear, I think I just put it in an infinite loop :P
19:41:32 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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19:47:07 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?<0><1>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?\]}
19:47:27 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!(_r)(Rand)!(_n)<50>=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=<0><1>(_r)(randi).?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?\]}
19:47:29 <GlassBot> 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 0
19:52:21 <fizzie> "Ideally" in an OO language you don't need a class "A" to add two and two, you just send the first two a message to add itself with the second, and it returns a new four.
19:52:37 <fizzie> (Unless it's one of those large-valued twos that add up to 5.)
19:56:47 <GregorR> But what sort of OO language would be THAT insane ;) Oh wait ... I can think of one!
19:59:18 <fizzie> I would guess there are several, even.
20:01:44 <fizzie> What I think is insane is that in Ruby one apparently loops by sending the _number_ of times to loop the message "times", with the block to loop as a parameter.
20:02:31 <fizzie> From http://www.rubycentral.com/book/intro.html : 5.times { print "*" }
20:02:43 <fizzie> "Here we ask the number 5 to call a block five times, ..."
20:04:34 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
20:04:36 <GlassBot> {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
20:04:59 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
20:05:00 <GlassBot> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
20:08:16 <GregorR> G!{(LameQuine)[(lq)(_d)(Debug)!(_o)O!"{M[m"(_o)o.?"M""m"(_d)(fc).?"]}"(_o)o.?]}
20:08:33 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_l)(LameQuine)(_l)(lq).?]}
20:08:45 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_l)(LameQuine)!(_l)(lq).?]}
20:08:46 <GlassBot> {M[m(_l)(LameQuine)!(_l)(lq).?]}
20:09:08 <fizzie> I guess I need to look at that language, since it seems to be very hip nowadays.
20:09:31 <GregorR> That's just because I'm pimping it.
20:17:37 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT"(_o)o.?]}
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20:19:47 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT"(_o)o.?]}
20:19:49 -!- GlassBot has quit (Client Quit).
20:20:31 -!- GlassBot has joined.
20:21:38 <GregorR> Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
20:22:14 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #glassbot"(_o)o.?]}
20:34:08 <GregorR> F!"{M[m(_o)O!"34,"GLASS ROCKS!"34,"(_o)o.?]}"
20:34:08 <falsebot> {M[m(_o)O!"GLASS ROCKS!"(_o)o.?]}
20:34:13 <GregorR> F!"G!{M[m(_o)O!"34,"GLASS ROCKS!"34,"(_o)o.?]}"
20:34:13 <falsebot> G!{M[m(_o)O!"GLASS ROCKS!"(_o)o.?]}
20:35:34 <GregorR> BF!+++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>----.>>+++.<+++.<++++++.>>>+.<<--------------.>+++++++.>++++.<<++.>+.>----------------.<--------.+.<<------.+++++.-----------.>----------------------------..>--.<-.---.<++.>----.>>++++.<+.+.++++++.>++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++.<+.>.<+++++.<<----.>++++++++++++++++++.>>++++++++++++++.
20:35:35 <BFBot> G!{M[m(_o)O!"GLASS ROCKS!"(_o)o.?]}
20:36:19 <wildhalcyon> how'd you convince the falsebot to interpret the " " ?
20:36:57 <GregorR> G!{(Emote)[e(_s)S!(_o)O!<1>(_s)(ns).?0(_o)o.?"ACTION "(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?(_o)o.?,]}
20:37:13 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)!"tests."(_e)e.?]}
20:37:37 <GregorR> F!1,"ACTION can emote too!"1,
20:40:21 <GregorR> BF! +.-+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>-.++.>>----.<<++++++.++++++.-.>-.>+++++++++++++++.<<+++++++++++++++++++.>>+++++++++++.<.<++++.>>-.++.+++++.<<.>++++++++++++.------------.<---.>>+.-.<.<++++.-----.>>--------.+++++++.<<++++.---.>>----.+++++.<.<+.--.>>>.<<+++++++.>.<------.[-]+.
20:40:21 * BFBot can emote, but falsebot can't!
20:41:40 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)"can do anything falsebot can do, better!"(_e)e.?]}
20:41:46 <lament> i thought i defined it
20:41:54 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)!"can do anything falsebot can do, better!"(_e)e.?]}
20:41:55 * GlassBot can do anything falsebot can do, better!
20:42:00 <GregorR> F!"I can do anything better than GlassBot!"
20:42:00 <falsebot> I can do anything better than GlassBot!
20:42:16 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_)O!"No you can't!"(_o)o.?]}
20:42:19 <lament> F!300[1-$]["blah "]#"!"
20:42:24 <lament> F!30[1-$]["blah "]#"!"
20:42:24 <falsebot> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah !
20:42:26 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"No you can't!"(_o)o.?]}
20:42:36 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"No you caaaan't!"(_o)o.?]}
20:44:04 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)!"has a permanent cache, does falsebot?"(_e)e.?]}
20:44:07 * GlassBot has a permanent cache, does falsebot?
20:44:47 <lament> i don't understand why Glass needs so much junk to output text
20:46:18 <GregorR> lament: You need to initialize an output class, and it all needs to be in the main class :P
20:46:32 <GregorR> s/output class/output object/
20:46:51 <lament> GregorR: sounds like Java :(
20:47:14 <fizzie> Is there a page about glass somewhere?
20:47:26 <GregorR> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
20:49:13 <fizzie> Oh. I didn't see it in the language list.
20:49:29 <fizzie> Or in the 'work in progress' list.
20:49:52 <GregorR> lol, I should put it there ;)
20:56:12 <wildhalcyon> You folks have any experience with windows apps?
20:57:21 <wildhalcyon> The most Ive done is compiled something as a console app. That's not going to fly for this project
20:57:58 <fizzie> Uh.. some work-related experience, unfortunately. Why?
20:58:30 <wildhalcyon> I dont know what graphics package would be the easiet, or best, to work with...
20:58:49 <fizzie> You mean a GUI toolkit, or some SDL-like graphics thing?
20:59:26 <wildhalcyon> not familiar with SDL, but basically something that will allow me to create an app window and work within it
21:00:47 <fizzie> Well, SDL gives you a window you can draw freely in, and is rather portable and fast. (And contains keyboard-input and audio-output too). It doesn't do any GUI widgets or drawing primitives (lines, etc), if that's what you're looking for.
21:01:20 <wildhalcyon> I need something that can handle ttf fonts
21:02:00 <fizzie> There's a "SDL_ttf" standard add-on library for that.
21:04:07 <fizzie> If you don't need portability, you can of course use the standard win32 API. It's rather cumbersome, and DirectX (faster than plain-old-GDI) is just plain nasty.
21:06:04 <fizzie> GDI is just the graphics part of windows. I can't recall what it's an acronym for.
21:07:45 <fizzie> (This is all assuming you're writing C++ or some-such. Other languages might have a lot more natural interfaces for graphics than using the Win32 api.)
21:10:29 <GregorR> YOU may write C, but it WILL be C++ on some level.
21:10:40 <GregorR> Because the internal interfaces of Windows are C++.
21:10:43 <fizzie> Then I'd suggest either standard win32 api features (incl. possibly DirectX, but that's really no fun at all), or alternatively SDL. Obviously there might be other libraries I'm not aware of.
21:10:46 <GregorR> But anyway: C: gtk+, C++: FLTK
21:11:57 <fizzie> Aren't those more GUI-oriented and thusly perhaps overkill? Obivously I don't know what kind of application we're talking about.
21:12:37 <fizzie> (And besides, isn't the good old win32 api pretty much C instead of C++? Excluding the newer parts.)
21:13:49 <GregorR> Oh wait, you don't want a widget set, just a box to draw on?
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21:19:04 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Hi calamari!"(_o)o.?]}
21:22:51 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++[>>+>+++++++++>+++++++++++++>++++<<<<<-]>>>.>+.>.<<-.>+++++++++.-------------.++.++++++++.+++.<+++++++++++.<++.
21:23:27 <GregorR> Hmm, I'll bet the flood limit is <2000 :P
21:23:45 <GregorR> E!bf+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>++++.>.+.<+.>>.>++.<<<++++++.++++++++++++++.>>>--------------.<+++++++.<<++++.>>>++.<+.>--------------------------------.<<-.+.+++++++++++++++++.+.>+++.----------.<++++++++++++++.>>.+++++.-.<--.<+++++.------.>>-------.+++.+++.<<++++.>+.+.<------------------.+.--------.>.<----.<.++++++++++++++++.>+.<.>+++++.+++++++++++++++++.>>+++++++++++.<<<+++++++
21:23:46 <EsoBot> Invalid command `bf+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>++++.>.+.<+.>>.>++.<<<++++++.++++++++++++++.>>>--------------.<+++++++.<<++++.>>>++.<+.>--------------------------------.<<-.+.+++++++++++++++++.+.>+++.----------.<++++++++++++++.>>.+++++.-.<--.<+++++.------.>>-------.+++.+++.<<++++.>+.+.<------------------.+.--------.>.<----.<.++++++++++++++++.>+.<.>+++++.+++++++++++++++++.>>+++++++++++.<<<+++++++'.
21:23:53 <GregorR> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>++++.>.+.<+.>>.>++.<<<++++++.++++++++++++++.>>>--------------.<+++++++.<<++++.>>>++.<+.>--------------------------------.<<-.+.+++++++++++++++++.+.>+++.----------.<++++++++++++++.>>.+++++.-.<--.<+++++.------.>>-------.+++.+++.<<++++.>+.+.<------------------.+.--------.>.<----.<.++++++++++++++++.>+.<.>+++++.+++++++++++++++++.>>+++++++++++.<<<++++++
21:23:54 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[m(_o)O!"34,"BOTS GALORE!"34,"(_o)o.?]
21:23:55 <falsebot> G!{M[m(_o)O!"BOTS GALORE!"(_o)o.?]
21:24:43 <calamari> I haven't implemented the 300 char limit yet
21:24:53 <calamari> if you want to experiment with EsoBot you can also private message
21:25:12 <GregorR> If you want to experiment with GlassBot, you can also use #glassbot ;)
21:25:55 <GregorR> BF!+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>++++.>.+.<+.>>.>++.<<<++++++.++++++++++++++.>>>--------------.<<++++++.<++++.>>>++.<<+.>>--------------------------------.<.+.<++++++++++.+.--------.>.<++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++.+++++.-.>.>----------------------------.+.--------.<.++++++.<++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++.>+.<.>+++++.+++++++++++++++++.<<--.>++++++++++++++.>>----------.
21:25:56 <BFBot> F!"G!{M[m(_o)O!"34,"BOTS"34,"(_o)o.?]}"
21:27:49 <calamari> I was thinking of adding a http grab so that I wouldn't have to post huge programs to the channel
21:28:32 <GregorR> But posting huge programs to the channel is half the fun!
21:29:03 <calamari> of course before it was just silence, so maybe it's no big deal
21:29:33 <GregorR> BF!++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>>---.>---.<-------.>-----------.+++.<<++++..>>.<<--.>.<++.>>+++.-------.+++++++++++++.<.<<----.>-.----.<---.>.+++++.>+.
21:29:35 <BFBot> I'm better than EsoBot!
21:30:54 <GregorR> E!bf +.-++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++>+++++<<<<-]>>>>-----.++.<<.<+++.++++++.-.>>++++.<+++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++.>.<<++++++++++++++++++++.+++.>+..<.>--.>.<++.<+++.-------.>------.>.>-.++++.----.<<+.+++++.>+.[-]+.
21:30:55 <EsoBot> ACTION is better than BFBot!
21:31:02 <GregorR> It won't output \1 :( :( :(
21:31:43 <EsoBot> Commands: help, ps, kill, quit, bf, test.
21:33:04 <EsoBot> Commands: help, ps, kill, quit, bf, test.
21:33:09 <calamari> I filtered out anything below <32, except '\n'
21:33:22 <calamari> some were security problems, like '\r'
21:33:34 <GregorR> In IRC, AFAIK, only \r and \n are bad.
21:33:57 <calamari> there was another one, I think it was \1 that was CTCPing the channel
21:34:11 <calamari> or something less than 13 at least
21:34:25 <GregorR> Yeah, \1 does CTCP - but that's also how you do emote ;)
21:34:48 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)"knows that emoting is good!"(_e)e.?]}
21:34:55 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)!"knows that emoting is good!"(_e)e.?]}
21:35:51 <calamari> PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CTCP>ACTION test<CTCP>
21:39:04 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++>+++++++++>++++++++<<<<<-]>.++.>++++++.<++++++.>-----.-.>++++++.>-.--.>+.----.<+.<.>>++++.<+.<----------------------.
21:39:22 <calamari> xchat must be replacing \1 with "ACTION"
21:40:18 <calamari> well, that's okay :) better safe than sorry
21:55:51 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot: F!<false>, GlassBot: G!<Glass>, BFBot: BF!<BF>.
21:58:33 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot: F!<false>, GlassBot: G!<Glass>, BFBot: BF!<BF>, EsoBot: E!help.
22:03:53 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
22:04:47 -!- EsoBot has joined.
22:05:52 <calamari> E!bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/beer.b
22:05:54 <EsoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.
22:05:55 <EsoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall.
22:05:57 <EsoBot> 98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer.
22:05:58 <EsoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 97 bottles of beer on the wall.
22:06:00 <EsoBot> 97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottles of beer.
22:06:01 <EsoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 96 bottles of beer on the wall.
22:08:45 -!- EsoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:10:40 <calamari> I forget to use the nice exception I was throwing
22:10:57 -!- EsoBot has joined.
22:11:01 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `bf'.
22:11:31 -!- EsoBot has quit (Client Quit).
22:12:11 -!- EsoBot has joined.
22:12:14 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://bad url'.
22:12:32 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://kidsquid.com?post'.
22:13:11 <calamari> E!bf http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/LostKng.b
22:13:35 <calamari> I should set up a server so it's a local download
22:13:49 <GregorR> I'm working on giving the same capability to GlassBot :)
22:14:07 <calamari> don't forget to strip off ?'s :)
22:14:23 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
22:14:24 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
22:14:26 <EsoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
22:14:27 <EsoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
22:16:45 <EsoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
22:16:46 <EsoBot> You are in a small hut by a dirt road.
22:17:06 <calamari> not sure what to do about that.. ideas?
22:21:15 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
22:22:07 -!- EsoBot has joined.
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22:24:22 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
22:24:24 -!- GlassBot has quit ("Upgrades!").
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22:25:15 <GregorR> G!Uhttp://pastebin.ca/raw/26317
22:27:34 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Test"(_o)o.?]}
22:28:00 <fizzie> Does it support file:/// urls? :p
22:28:01 -!- GlassBot has quit (Connection reset by peer).
22:29:34 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/LostKng.b
22:29:38 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
22:29:39 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
22:29:41 <EsoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
22:29:42 <EsoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
22:29:44 <EsoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
22:30:25 <EsoBot> You are in a small hut by a dirt road.
22:31:02 -!- GlassBot has joined.
22:32:25 <EsoBot> You scored 0 points out of a possible 100.
22:32:26 <EsoBot> You have earned the rank of Amateur.
22:32:51 <GregorR> How easy is it to add another language to EsoBot?
22:33:09 <GregorR> How easy would it be to add Glass to EsoBot?
22:35:42 <calamari> well, if you'd like to make a Java version, I'll add it to EsoBot
22:36:47 <calamari> just write it like a console app
22:37:02 <GregorR> This C++ version was tough enough XD
22:37:07 <GregorR> And in Java I wouldn't have any pointers.
22:37:36 <calamari> here is the API: flush(), print(String), println(String), char getInput()
22:38:44 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)"loves pointers too!"(_e)e.?]}
22:38:47 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_e)(Emote)!"loves pointers too!"(_e)e.?]}
22:39:21 <calamari> are you using function pointers?
22:42:08 <GregorR> I have a Func class, and I have pointers to the Func class.
22:42:13 <GregorR> But no actual function pointers.
23:01:20 <EsoBot> No such process `EsoBot'.
23:06:37 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
23:07:36 <GregorR> G!{m[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #glassbot"(_o)o.?]}
23:07:43 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #glassbot"(_o)o.?]}
23:08:02 <GregorR> GlassBot only responds as such to me :)
23:08:02 <calamari> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #calamari"(_o)o.?]}
23:08:23 <GregorR> So, if somebody took my nick ...
23:08:32 -!- calamari has changed nick to GregorR_.
23:08:35 <GregorR_> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #calamari"(_o)o.?]}
23:08:45 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to calamari.
23:09:42 <calamari> if it turns out to be a problem, I can just disable it and use Ctrl-C here
23:12:31 -!- EsoBot has joined.
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23:14:34 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b umhello.b
23:14:43 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://localhost/ls/bf/'.
23:14:44 <EsoBot> http://localhost/ls/bf/
23:16:26 -!- EsoBot has quit (Client Quit).
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23:19:37 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b umhello.b
23:19:40 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b umhello.b
23:19:51 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://localhost/ls/abcd'.
23:20:31 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/prime.b
23:20:59 <EsoBot> 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97
23:21:26 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/factor.b
23:22:19 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/bfi.b
23:24:12 <calamari> E!ls http://localhost/bf/helloum.b
23:24:14 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://localhost/ls/http://localhost/bf/helloum.b'.
23:24:32 <EsoBot> ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
23:24:50 <calamari> E!input 1 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.!
23:30:34 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
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23:34:22 <calamari> E!cat http://localhost/bf/helloum.b
23:34:24 <EsoBot> ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
23:47:27 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
23:48:09 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:50:32 -!- EsoBot has quit (Client Quit).
23:51:10 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:51:48 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `'.
23:51:49 <EsoBot> Program executed perfectly right!
23:53:08 <calamari> E!unnecessary http://localhost/bf/helloum.b
23:53:09 <EsoBot> CRITICAL ERROR: The file exists!
00:25:00 <calamari> how's that glass conversion going? need a cool language in EsoBot :)
00:25:28 <calamari> I was looking at the logs.. I guess I stole lament's original bot name
00:25:55 <calamari> There was EsoShell, so I named it EsoBot.. oops
00:26:54 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+[..................................................................]
00:29:00 <EsoBot> Memory pointer position out of range: -1
00:29:07 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
00:31:14 <calamari> Exception in thread "Thread-14" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
00:31:14 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari, 3:calamari, 4:calamari, 5:calamari, 6:calamari, 7:calamari, 8:calamari, 9:calamari, 10:calamari, 11:calamari, 12:calamari, 13:calamari, 14:calamari, 15:calamari, 16:calamari, 17:calamari, 18:calamari, 19:calamari, 20:calamari, 21:calamari, 22:calamari, 23:calamari
00:31:33 <calamari> its still running.. that's amazing
00:32:19 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari, 3:calamari, 4:calamari, 5:calamari, 6:calamari, 7:calamari, 8:calamari, 9:calamari, 10:calamari, 11:calamari, 12:calamari, 13:calamari, 14:calamari, 15:calamari, 16:calamari, 17:calamari, 18:calamari, 19:calamari, 20:calamari, 21:calamari, 22:calamari, 23:calamari
00:35:32 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari, 3:calamari, 6:calamari, 8:calamari, 9:calamari, 12:calamari, 14:calamari, 16:calamari, 18:calamari
00:35:53 <calamari> guess when it crashes out like that I need to handle it better on my end
00:36:06 <calamari> Java seems to be doing great tho
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00:48:53 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:48:54 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:48:55 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:48:56 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:48:56 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:48:57 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:48:58 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:49:00 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:49:04 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
00:49:06 <EsoBot> Killed 3: Out of memory.
00:49:20 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari, 4:calamari, 5:calamari, 6:calamari, 7:calamari, 8:calamari, 9:calamari
00:49:40 <EsoBot> Killed 9: Out of memory.
00:49:49 <EsoBot> Killed 5: Out of memory.
00:50:10 <EsoBot> Killed 2: Out of memory.
00:50:21 <EsoBot> Killed 1: Out of memory.
00:50:29 <EsoBot> Killed 7: Out of memory.
00:50:54 <EsoBot> Killed 6: Out of memory.
00:50:59 <EsoBot> Killed 8: Out of memory.
00:51:08 <EsoBot> Killed 4: Out of memory.
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00:57:27 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"EsoBot sux0rzzzz!"(_o)o.?]}
00:58:27 <calamari> I haven't implemented that whole program save thing, maybe I should
00:58:51 <calamari> of course, with as much as I terminate the bot, it wouldn't be that useful
00:59:15 <GregorR> That's why you save to disk.
01:00:40 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
01:00:43 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre Debug Emote F Fib LameQuine M O Rand S V
01:00:50 <GregorR> Those classes are all saved to disk :)
01:01:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"LameQuine"(_d)(fl).?]}
01:01:16 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"LameQuine""lq"(_d)(fc).?]}
01:01:17 <GlassBot> (_d)(Debug)!(_o)O!"{M[m"(_o)o.?"M""m"(_d)(fc).?"]}"(_o)o.?
01:01:36 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_l)(LameQuine)!(_l)(lq).?]}
01:01:37 <GlassBot> {M[m(_l)(LameQuine)!(_l)(lq).?]}
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01:05:58 <GregorR> calamari: Congratulations, you've done nothing in Glass ;)
01:06:15 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"The first step to writing a glass program is nothing!"(_o)o.?]}
01:06:55 <GregorR> That's weird, it's not receiving any input, it didn't even get your {}
01:07:15 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"The first step to writing a glass program is nothing!"(_o)o.?]}
01:07:25 <GlassBot> The first step to writing a glass program is nothing!
01:07:30 <GlassBot> The first step to writing a glass program is nothing!
01:10:17 <calamari> G!{Test[main(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
01:10:58 <calamari> G!{(Test)[(main)(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
01:11:50 <calamari> G!{M[(main)(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
01:12:19 <calamari> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
01:12:32 <calamari> G!{(Main)[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
01:15:00 <calamari> G!{(Main)[m(var)O!"Hello World!"(var)o.?]}
01:15:05 <calamari> G!{(M)[m(var)O!"Hello World!"(var)o.?]}
01:15:36 <calamari> G!{M[m(vara)O!"Hello World!"(varb)o.?]}
01:21:26 <calamari> G!{(M)[m(o)O!"Hello World!"(o)o.?]}
01:21:33 <calamari> G!{(M)[moO!"Hello World!"oo.?]}
01:21:50 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"Hello World!""a"oo.?]}
01:22:16 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"Hello World!"oo.?]}{}
01:22:26 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"Hello World!"oo.?]}{M[moO!"Hello World!"oo.?]}
01:22:34 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"Hello Worlda!"oo.?]}{M[moO!"Hello Worldb!"oo.?]}
01:27:31 <calamari> BF!+[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
01:29:09 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server").
01:29:37 <calamari> BF!+[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
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01:30:16 <calamari> BF!+[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+.
01:30:33 <calamari> BF!+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+.
01:30:45 <calamari> BF!+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]+.
01:32:03 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++<-]>+++++++++++++++.
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01:44:01 <Robdgreat> E!bf ++++++++++[>++++++++<-]>++++++++.
01:57:34 <GregorR> G!Uhttp://pastebin.ca/raw/26340
01:58:09 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_b)(BF)!"+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++."(_b)(bf).?]}
01:58:59 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
01:59:01 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib LameQuine M Main O Rand S T Test V
01:59:05 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"BF"(_d)(fl).?]}
01:59:12 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"BF""bf"(_d)(fc).?]}
01:59:13 <GlassBot> (_a)A!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_p)1=,(_pp)<0>=(_m)(Arr)!(_mp)<0>=(_pc)(_pp)*(_p)*(_s)l.?(_a)(le).?=/(_pc)(_pcur)(_p)*(_pp)*(_s)i.?(_s)(sn).?=(_isc)(_pcur)*<43>e.?=/(_isc)(_isc)<0>=(_c)(_mp)*(_m)g.?=(_c)(_c)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_mp)*(_c)*(_m)s.?\(_isc)(_pcur)*<45>(_a)e.?=/(_isc)(_isc)<0>=(_c)(_mp)*(_m)g.?=(_c)(_c)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_mp)*(_c)*(_m)s.?\(_isc)(_pcur)*<60>(_a)e.?=/(_isc)(_isc)<0>=(_mp)(_mp)*<1 >(_a)s.?=(_b)(_mp)*<0>(_a)(lt).?=/(_b)^\\(_isc)(_pcur)*<62>(_a)e.?=/(_isc
02:09:28 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out).
02:17:53 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_b)(BF)!"+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++."(_b)(bf).?]}
02:20:39 <GregorR> G!Uhttp://pastebin.ca/raw/26342
02:20:55 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_b)(BF)!"+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++."(_b)(bf).?]}
03:51:47 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
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04:20:35 <GregorR> Sorry 'bout that, had to restart.
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05:11:48 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Hello, Arrogant!"(_o)o.?]}
06:04:23 <GregorR> Hmm, why is it responding in the wrong channel ...
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06:53:06 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"I'm still alive!"(_o)o.?]}
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07:46:59 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Hi tokigun!"(_o)o.?]}
07:47:15 <tokigun> hmm, irc bots everywhere ;)
07:47:50 <GregorR> BF!+++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>---.>>.>++.<+++++++++++.<++++++.----.--.--.>+.-------.>+.
07:48:26 <tokigun> falsebot for False, BFBot for brainfuck, GlassBot for Glass, EsoBot for what?
07:48:38 <tokigun> http://tokigun.daybreaker.info/irclog/?network=freenode&channel=esoteric
07:48:41 <GregorR> EsoBot is like EsoShell, it runs several (but really just BF)
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07:51:10 <GregorR> Which user here is logging there? :P
07:51:14 <tokigun> i've used it for logging hanirc channels, but it works well for freenode :)
07:51:44 <GregorR> So it's not another cmeme, clog, it's a real person :P
07:51:50 <tokigun> (with small php script for parsing irssi coloring)
07:53:10 <tokigun> php code looks like this: http://tokigun.daybreaker.info/irclog/?action=source
07:53:55 <GregorR> Not much of a fan of comments, are you? ;)
07:56:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
07:56:14 -!- GlassBot has quit ("Upgrades!").
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07:58:32 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!" "(_n)<500>=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?0(_o)o.?\,]}
07:58:41 <GregorR> Whoops, that's not quite right ...
07:58:47 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_a)A!" "(_n)<500>=/(_n)(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?=0(_o)o.?\,]}
07:59:35 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"BF""bf"(_d)(fc).?]}
07:59:38 <GlassBot> (_a)A!(_o)O!(_s)S!(_p)1=,(_pp)<0>=(_m)(Arr)!(_mp)<0>=(_pc)(_pp)*(_p)*(_s)l.?(_a)(le).?=/(_pc)(_pcur)(_p)*(_pp)*(_s)i.?(_s)(sn).?=(_isc)(_pcur)*<43>(_a)e.?=/(_isc)(_isc)<0>=(_c)(_mp)*(_m)g.?=(_c)(_c)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_mp)*(_c)*(_m)s.?\(_isc)(_pcur)*<45>(_a)e.?=/(_isc)(_isc)<0>=(_c)(_mp)*(_m)g.?=(_c)(_c)*<1>(_a)s.?=(_mp)*(_c)*(_m)s.?\(_isc)(_pcur)*<60>(_a)e.?=/(_isc)(_isc)<0>=(_mp)(_mp)*<1>(_a)s.? Flood!
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08:04:41 <tokigun> who is running GlassBot? GregorR?
08:04:51 <GregorR> Since I'm the only person who knows Glass :P
08:05:50 <tokigun> well, then who's running falsebot and EsoBot?
08:09:47 <GregorR> BF!++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++++>+++>+++++<<<<-]>.>>+++.+.<<+.>>-.<+++.<++++++.++++++++++++++.>--------------.++.--------------------------------.>.+.>+.+.--------.----------.<<<-------------------------.>.+++++.-.>-.>.<<<---------------.+.--------.>>>.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++..<++.+++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++.>+.
08:09:48 <BFBot> F!"G!{M[moO!"34,"BOTS!"34,"oo.?]}"
08:19:44 <tokigun> i'm setting my own irc bot -- tokinyaan
08:30:44 <GregorR> 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
08:30:46 <GregorR> 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
08:30:48 <GregorR> 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
08:38:59 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
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12:48:13 <CXI> here's a challenge - come up with a dual quine
12:48:40 <CXI> when you run it in brainfuck it returns its own sourcecode in False
12:48:49 <CXI> when you run it in False it returns the original brainfuck source
12:48:57 <CXI> then run it in here and the bots explode... :o
14:59:18 <fizzie> Phew. Managed to build a 4-bit ripple-carry adder with OpenTTD.
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19:45:11 <GregorR> G!{(FE)[(fe)(_o)O!(_s)S!<34>(_s)(ns).?"F!"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?"{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?,]}
19:45:33 <GregorR> Oh wait, I missed something ;)
19:45:38 <GregorR> G!{(FE)[(fe)(_o)O!(_s)S!<34>(_s)(ns).?"F!"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?,]}
19:45:56 <GregorR> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:45:58 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:00 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:02 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:04 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:06 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:08 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:10 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:12 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:16 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:18 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:20 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:22 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:24 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:26 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
19:46:28 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_fe)(FE)!(_fe)(fe).?]}"
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19:46:41 -!- GlassBot has joined.
19:50:01 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
19:50:03 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F FE Fib LameQuine M Main O Rand S T Test V
19:50:26 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"T"(_d)(fl).?]}
19:50:32 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Test"(_d)(fl).?]}
19:52:05 <graue> time for a sceqlbot?
19:55:30 <graue> do you have some sort of "bot that just connects and parses messages" program to base these things off of?
20:06:54 <GregorR> But I could build one *shrugs*
20:09:01 <lament> graue: in python, there's irclib.py
20:09:17 <graue> sadly, I do not know python
20:10:11 <fizzie> In Java there's a few irc-bot libraries too.
20:10:23 <graue> I was thinking along the lines of C
20:11:13 <fizzie> I would assume there to be some pre-made libraries for C too. Or you could write an eggdrop module.
20:12:02 <GregorR> graue: The easiest thing to do would be to use netcat for your network connection and then just parse stdin, it's really a very simple protocol.
20:12:41 <GregorR> It's how GlassBot and BFBot work :P
20:19:29 <graue> I've lost the desire to do this
20:21:47 <graue> I've tried, many times
20:21:52 <graue> python is *not* my style
20:22:52 <fizzie> You've seen the Python love story video?
20:27:33 <cpressey> GregorR: now do it between two bots whose owners are away
20:27:57 <GregorR> Well, since I own all but one of the bots in this room, that's impossible ;)
20:31:25 <CXI> Gregor: that's awesome :D
20:31:41 <CXI> graue: had a look at ruby?
20:31:47 <fizzie> graue; this one: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/multimedia/video/obp/IntroducingPython.mpg (picked up the url from #scheme).
20:33:16 <lament> i still don't understand how can anybody possibly not like Python :)
20:33:26 <lament> well, okay, i understand that. But preferring C to Python?
20:33:46 <graue> lament: C is a much smaller and more predictable language
20:34:02 <lament> Python is quite small.
20:34:14 <graue> didn't seem that way to me
20:34:28 <CXI> C is pretty amazingly small
20:35:20 <CXI> but yeah, sometimes I want more... elegant, than small
20:35:28 <CXI> and a lot of C feels very hacky
20:35:35 <lament> graue: brainfuck is much smaller and more predictable than C
20:36:20 <graue> but with a cost in terms of maintainability
20:36:33 <CXI> actually, I've been meaning to ask
20:36:38 <CXI> what does python do that's so amazing?
20:36:53 <GregorR> It has significant whitespace!
20:36:57 <lament> CXI: it's extremely readable. It makes sense.
20:36:58 <CXI> like, I had a brief look at it, but nothing really struck me as "wow, this is awesome"
20:37:41 <graue> usually my attempts to learn Python end when I get sick of the billion exceptions I have to be looking for constantly, or how obscure the rules for deep vs. shallow copies are
20:38:00 <lament> doesn't sound like any python i know of
20:38:23 <CXI> doesn't python have subclassed exceptions?
20:38:29 <CXI> and an inbuilt exception handler anyway?
20:38:52 <lament> the copying semantics in Python are extremely simple:
20:38:58 <lament> nothing ever gets implicitly copied.
20:39:16 <lament> where some things are copied and some are passed by reference...
20:39:24 <graue> that doesn't sound like any C I know of
20:39:41 <lament> graue: arrays are passed by reference
20:39:50 <graue> no, they degrade into pointers
20:39:55 <graue> nothing is ever passed by reference
20:40:03 <CXI> basically - in C everything's copied, in python everything's referenced
20:40:10 <lament> cpressey: that's the problem. There are.
20:40:12 <CXI> (also, in ruby... *drool*)
20:40:15 <graue> cpressey: they're mere syntactic sugar, but they do exist
20:40:22 <lament> CXI: (no. Arrays are not copied)
20:40:23 <cpressey> lament: no, only pointer arithmetic.
20:40:33 <CXI> well, it depends how you look at it
20:40:33 <lament> cpressey: read the standard :)
20:40:44 <CXI> I visualise arrays as pointers, in which case the pointers are copied
20:40:59 <CXI> but I understand what you mean, it is confusing
20:41:11 <cpressey> lament: are you suggesting that C99 says that arrays are passed by reference?
20:41:27 <lament> cpressey: it says they decay into pointers. You can't pass arrays at all.
20:41:46 <graue> which makes perfect sense
20:41:56 <cpressey> which doesn't suggest "pass by reference" to me at all
20:41:58 <lament> cpressey: C arrays have a very obscure existence. The main reason you can tell they're there at all is because sizeof() knows about them
20:42:24 <lament> but sizeof treats arrays differently from pointers
20:42:28 <lament> therefore, the two are different
20:42:31 <GregorR> #include <sys/types.h> ... uint_32 :) :)
20:42:47 <graue> what would you use instead of sizeof if you were designing C over again?
20:42:51 <lament> like i said, in python everything is passed by ref. No exceptions.
20:43:01 <CXI> heh, exceptions
20:43:12 <lament> graue: but things like numbers are immutable
20:43:16 <cpressey> graue: explicit byte arrays, probably.
20:43:30 <lament> graue: so it doesn't matter if they're ppassed by ref or by val - you can't modify them anyway
20:43:38 <CXI> hey Gregor, how do the bots avoid getting in an infinite loop?
20:43:41 <cpressey> lament: what if i want a guarantee that some function won't change the object i pass to it?
20:44:04 <lament> cpressey: pass it an immutable object :)
20:44:09 <lament> cpressey: no guarantees otherwise.
20:44:17 <CXI> fair enough :)
20:44:20 <CXI> in ruby you can do object.freeze
20:44:23 <cpressey> lament: so it has to be on a per-object basis, not a per-function basis?
20:44:26 <CXI> which is fun
20:44:29 <cpressey> man, even C does better than that
20:44:30 <GregorR> CXI: BFBot has a counter for each loop, GlassBot has a counter for the total time.
20:44:44 <lament> cpressey: python is very, very lax about "guarantees".
20:45:10 <GregorR> Clearly a good thing, right? :P
20:45:12 <lament> it's extremely dynamic
20:45:18 <lament> which is a valid reason not to like it
20:45:24 <lament> but usually not the reason why people don't :)
20:45:49 <CXI> I feel like doing some genetic programming... it sounds totally neat
20:45:50 <GregorR> I don't particularly dislike the structure, etc, I just can't wrap my head around the notion of significant indentation. It just seems a bit silly :P
20:46:08 <lament> GregorR: you indent your programs anyway, right?
20:46:10 <CXI> it strikes me as gimmicky
20:46:11 <cpressey> well, if i wanted "extremely dynamic" i'd probably go with ruby, honestly.
20:46:18 <lament> GregorR: so, just keep indenting them.
20:46:29 <lament> ruby and python aren't all that different
20:46:40 <cpressey> lament: oohh.. don't tell that to a rabid ruby fan
20:46:46 <GregorR> lament: If I want to write a quick program and don't have an auto-indenting text editor, I usually won't indent because I just need a quick program.
20:46:52 <CXI> speaking as a rabid ruby fan, they're not that different
20:46:58 <lament> cpressey: but it's true :)
20:47:08 <cpressey> CXI: are you also a rabid python fan? :)
20:47:15 <CXI> actually, I never really got into python
20:47:27 <CXI> if only because I don't much see the point after using ruby
20:47:28 <lament> many rabid python fans would get offended as well
20:47:35 <lament> yeah, that's it really
20:47:39 <lament> if you know one of (python, ruby)
20:47:44 <lament> there's very little reason to learn the other
20:47:49 <cpressey> lament: well, ruby does have that smalltalk-ish gimmick where you can alter the class structure at runtime... i've not heard of that been done in python.
20:47:54 <lament> they fit the same niche
20:48:08 <CXI> ruby is stupidy dynamic
20:48:19 * CXI remembers writing some code to update itself while running
20:48:33 <CXI> include $0; if I remember :/
20:48:41 <cpressey> i always thought it was silly to ever design a program where you would want to do that :)
20:48:43 <GregorR> I love you C++, you're my only friend. Except for C.
20:48:44 <lament> i like python more because it reminds me of perl less :)
20:48:48 <cpressey> kind of like self-modifying code
20:48:56 <CXI> it was an irc bot
20:49:03 <CXI> and I didn't want to lose the connection on every change
20:49:33 <lament> c++ makes me really, really scared
20:49:35 <CXI> I quite like perl, but it's got that same hacky feeling
20:49:39 <graue> by the way, thanks for introducing me to Lua, cpressey
20:49:54 <lament> CXI: it certainly does.
20:49:55 <graue> I haven't done much with it yet, but it's the first high-level language that's seemed interesting to me (for more than 15 minutes)
20:49:55 <GregorR> I hate perl a lot. I am an advocate for banning all new perl code.
20:50:04 <GregorR> Want to write perl? Write python.
20:50:09 <cpressey> graue: err... you're welcome? (i wasn't aware i was introducing anything to anyone :)
20:50:22 <graue> cpressey: in a discussion awhile ago you mentioned it
20:50:30 <CXI> perl was what I wrote random things in before I found ruby
20:50:37 <cpressey> well, it's true that i like lua more than ruby or python
20:50:46 <lament> ruby is a cross between perl and smalltalk :P
20:51:05 <GregorR> PHP for web programming is the best, hands down. People who use PHP for non-web programming, however, are weird :P
20:51:24 <lament> GregorR: some people would cut your balls of for saying that.
20:51:29 <lament> GregorR: (i mean the first sentence)
20:51:33 <cpressey> python and php are crippled for any serious functional programming, which is too bad
20:51:42 <lament> cpressey: i don't see why.
20:52:02 <lament> cpressey: by functional you mean FP?
20:52:04 <cpressey> lament: python doesn't to tail calls, and iirc its lambdas are limited to something like one line of code?
20:52:25 <lament> cpressey: python is not MEANT for functional programming.
20:52:29 <lament> of course it's crippled.
20:52:40 <lament> Scheme is not meant for serious OO programming, either.
20:52:49 <lament> you can't have a language do everything.
20:53:06 <cpressey> lament: i'm sorry if i've offended you
20:53:18 <cpressey> i wasn't planning to do any FP in python
20:53:43 <cpressey> but there are certainly people who would like to do that, and that is their biggest complaint
20:53:43 <graue> I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in Lua once, by the way: http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/junk/bf-fast.lua
20:53:48 <graue> guess I should add that to the file archive
20:53:49 <lament> Guido says he regrets ever putting lambdas in Python
20:54:05 <lament> they give people the wrong impression :)
20:54:11 <CXI> so, lua is essentially a bunch of C libraries?
20:54:16 <cpressey> i'd rather he just implement them properly
20:54:50 <graue> CXI: Lua is a programming language
20:55:23 <GregorR> BTW, what do other people think is the best for web programming?
20:55:26 <CXI> hmm, never mind, I misread something
20:55:36 <CXI> actually, that's a lie, I've never used rails
20:55:48 <CXI> but I hear it has rakefiles instead of makefiles
20:56:03 <GregorR> Why would it need any sort of *akefiles?
20:56:07 <cpressey> ColdFusion, or something else that will tie me into a proprietary cult
20:56:25 <GregorR> cpressey: ASP .... DOT NET!!!!!?
20:56:47 <CXI> oh awesome!
20:56:49 <fizzie> Rails is what people-I-know often seem to recommend. I've always wanted to try the PLT web server, or some other scheme/continuation-based web thingie, but haven't.
20:56:52 <GregorR> <% response.print "My code looks retarded!" %>
20:56:56 <CXI> "There is not enough room on the disk to save blah.zip..."
20:57:10 <CXI> they added an error dialog to firefox when there's no room
20:57:18 <CXI> instead of just randomly aborting the file transfer halfway through
20:58:07 <fizzie> Perl and apache and mod_perl and HTML:Mason was a nice enough combination, I guess, it's just that... well, Perl.
20:58:10 <GregorR> So, what I'm understanding is that the only competitor to PHP is ROR?
20:58:31 <GregorR> Perl doesn't count, and along the same lines neither does Brainfuck or False.
20:58:48 <CXI> I was going to mention mod_bf :/
20:58:49 <fizzie> Firefox with gnome-vfs and an smb:// url messed up the download manager pretty badly, when downloading >4G files.
20:58:54 <cpressey> GregorR: well... couldn't you take just about any language and make it "html templatized" ?
20:59:11 <cpressey> not that that is the only trick
20:59:21 <fizzie> -1796223 KB of 375.9 MB at -675.-6 KB/sec; 0-53:0-31 remain
20:59:30 <GregorR> cpressey: I was asking what people preferences were, not what would be possible ;)
20:59:37 <CXI> lua looks pretty
20:59:39 <fizzie> (and then it stopped at 2^32-1 bytes and left me an incomplete file.)
20:59:41 <CXI> not many brackets
20:59:59 <cpressey> GregorR: ok, i don't do much web programming. mostly it's simple cgi-like stuff. so perl is "fine"
21:00:44 <GregorR> Let's all stop this discussion and play libc scrabble ;)
21:01:23 <cpressey> right now i'm learning haskell.
21:01:30 <CXI> haskell is a fun language
21:03:20 <cpressey> ...although they usually don't involve its syntax. the list patterns, especially. uggh\
21:03:26 <CXI> haha, yeah
21:03:28 <CXI> its syntax is kinda icky
21:03:39 <CXI> but the language itself is quite elegant
21:03:50 <CXI> actually, I'm curious about python
21:03:53 <CXI> how is it in terms of OO-ness?
21:05:00 <cpressey> i'd have to defer to a real python programmer, as i've only hacked up existing python code
21:05:12 <lament> but waaaay over my head
21:06:14 <CXI> well, ruby for example has a really strong and flexible object model...
21:06:28 <CXI> everything's an object, but there are certain defaults set up so it doesn't feel cumbersome (*cough* java)
21:06:55 <cpressey> graue / CXI: the thing that struck me about lua is that i had a vague idea in my mind what an "ideal small scripting language" would look like before i saw it; and then when i saw it, it was like, "oh. that
21:07:05 <cpressey> that's really quite close to what i was thinking"
21:07:15 <lament> CXI: well, everything's an object in Python.
21:07:41 <CXI> lua looks quite pretty
21:07:55 <CXI> very similar to ruby, actually
21:08:26 <cpressey> CXI: yeah, it's pretty hard to obfuscate it. (but far from impossible - just start playing with metatables, and you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to build something that you can't easily understand)
21:09:11 <cpressey> dealing with a language means knowing what parts to stay the hell away from
21:09:41 <lament> python and ruby are rather similar in their OO model. Ruby has more syntax for it, and things like being able to modify existing types
21:10:06 <lament> (can do that in python, but the changes won't apply to existing objects)
21:10:45 <cpressey> that's what i was referring to about changing the class structure at runtime-
21:11:13 <lament> yeah. you can't do that.
21:12:09 <lament> python doesn't treat functions any different from other objects. ruby does for some reason
21:13:14 <lament> functions aren't even objects in ruby at all
21:13:19 <lament> you have to do something to them first
21:13:22 <lament> i don't remember the details
21:14:04 <lament> oh, you know what really turned me off ruby? This http://www.rubygarden.org/faq/entry/show/14
21:15:14 <CXI> some random guy ranting about how ruby's better than everything?
21:15:48 <lament> their description of python is _completley wrong_
21:15:56 <lament> and it's on the faq of the official website
21:16:41 <lament> it probably wasn't wrong back when it was written
21:16:52 <lament> (python used to suck a lot more than it does now)
21:17:49 <CXI> but yeah, it's possible you're thinking of the non-oo way of using functions
21:17:57 <CXI> 'cause ruby has lots of random things like that
21:18:14 <lament> CXI: ruby has that weird special syntax for passing one function
21:18:25 <CXI> because it's a common task
21:19:28 <lament> if you want smalltalk you know where to find it :)
21:19:31 <cpressey> the weird (social) thing about ruby and python seems to be how much each camp is concerned with the other. i guess it's just because they're both in almost the same niche?
21:20:07 <lament> python python fans are much more obsessed with Perl
21:20:13 <lament> s/python python/but python
21:20:21 <cpressey> might be a misperception on my part... i've known a few trolls
21:20:38 <cpressey> yeah, there's perl too... not sure what people think of it anymore
21:20:41 <CXI> http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/html/ref_c_proc.html
21:20:53 <CXI> but yeah, python, perl and ruby all occupy a similar space
21:21:25 <lament> python and ruby are MUCH closer to each other than either is to perl, though
21:21:35 <lament> i wouldn't mind programming in either python or ruby
21:21:41 <lament> i would definitely not like having to program in perl
21:22:41 <GregorR> Hmm, which of these thirty obscure forms should I use ... should I pass $_, thus making it so you can't insert another line before this one? Yes, yes I should.
21:25:04 <lament> the main difference with perl and other languages lies in the mentality of the programmer :)
21:27:50 <GregorR> Doesn't that just scream "cat" to you!
21:30:17 <lament> GregorR: no, but it makes _me_ want to scream
21:30:20 <cpressey> if your brain has already been rotted so much by 300 baud teletype sessions with a VAX that you consider awk, sh, and sed to be efficient tools, why not use a language which combines their slapdash functionality while retaining their charming syntaxes?
21:30:30 <fizzie> My problem with Perl is that I always end up playing with references, and then it ends up in code like $t->[$e->[2]->[1]]->[$e->[2]->[2]]->[$e->[2]->[3]]
21:31:35 <GregorR> See, my only problem with perl is that it's terrible in virtually every imaginable way.
21:31:44 <fizzie> Or I go "hey, I haven't used a regular expression in the last 10 lines, must write while(length($rest) > 0 && $rest =~ /^((?:(?:$ex_nt|$ex_t|$ex_e)(?:\s+|$|(?=\|)))*)\s*(?:\||$)\s*(.*)$/) here". (Those are both real-life examples, btw.)
21:32:40 <fizzie> (Although in the latter case there actually seems to be an if(/^\s*($ex_nt)\s*->\s*(.*)$/) 9 lines before.)
21:33:19 <fizzie> my @rules = sort { $a eq $g->{'start'} ? $b eq $g->{'start'} ? 0 : -1 : $b eq $g->{'start'} ? 1 : $a cmp $b } keys %{$g->{'prods'}};
21:33:22 <fizzie> What does that look like? :p
21:33:47 <fizzie> ?: is my favourite operator.
21:36:10 <fizzie> Isn't there a $_ in Ruby too?
21:36:24 <cpressey> oh no fair, using ternary ?: without parens
21:36:59 <fizzie> That's what precedence is for.
21:37:23 <cpressey> yes, at least perl borrowed that from the language that got it right the first time - C
21:37:57 <graue> the precedence for some of the bitwise stuff in C is weird
21:38:50 <graue> which parses as (a&1) << b
21:39:09 <cpressey> yeah, that was probably an outright Mistake
21:39:15 <cpressey> >> and << often have a constant operand
21:39:27 <cpressey> so it "feels" like it should be high precendce
21:40:31 <fizzie> I think << has a higher precedence than bitwise-&, though.
21:40:35 <cpressey> so maybe my logic is wrong there
21:40:38 <lament> lamen't rules for precendence:
21:40:48 <CXI> I want to see more use of the precedence difference between &&/|| and and/or
21:40:56 <lament> rule 1. * has higher precendence than +
21:41:05 <lament> rule 2. The precendence of = is very very low.
21:41:12 <lament> rule 3. For everything else, use parentheses.
21:41:22 <CXI> if (foo and bar || baz or moo)
21:41:52 <fizzie> But (in C) & and | have an abnormally low precedence, and I think someone claimed that came from some long-forgotten era before && and || were invented and people used &, | as logical-and/or.
21:42:07 <lament> false still uses them that way :)
21:42:33 <fizzie> But when I write "a & 1 == 1", I wouldn't assume it to parse as "a & (1 == 1)".
21:43:00 <fizzie> Well, perhaps that's not a good example.
21:43:15 <lament> does it actually parse that way?
21:43:35 <fizzie> Yes, according to the first few tables I googled. Haven't checked the standard, but they can't all be wrong.
21:43:49 <cpressey> i think does, or at least, perl does
21:44:05 <fizzie> But I'd probably write just "a & 1", that "== 1" is quite useless. "a & 0x0f == 0x07" is perhaps a better example.
21:45:33 <fizzie> I wonder why C doesn't have a logical XOR, ^^
21:47:41 <GregorR> G!{M[moO!"Glass is better than perl! Glass is better than C! Glass is better than C++! Glass is the best!"oo.?]}
21:47:42 <GlassBot> Glass is better than perl! Glass is better than C! Glass is better than C++! Glass is the best!
21:48:54 <CXI> what the heck is glass anyway?
21:49:09 <GregorR> CXI: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass
21:49:33 <GregorR> It combines OO with a main stack with all sorts of pointers, making it the least logically designed language /EVER/!
21:50:03 <GregorR> Or, alternatively, the most illogically designed language ever.
21:50:14 <graue> have you written a Brainfuck-to-Glass compiler yet?
21:50:25 <fizzie> Actually it reminded me of the Java VM.
21:50:27 <GregorR> I'm working on a BF interpreter in Glass.
21:50:40 <graue> that will make BFBot obsolete!
21:50:49 <GregorR> Yup, then I can kill 'im :)
21:50:56 <graue> or, better yet, write a Glass interpreter in Brainfuck
21:51:19 <GregorR> BF!+++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>.>------.>+++++.------------.>----.<<.-.>+++++++.<++++++.>-------.>+++++++.--.<<--------..>.<+.>>----.<+.
21:51:21 <BFBot> No, don't kill me!
21:51:43 <GregorR> Sgep: BFBot is a bot ... to run BF :P
21:51:51 <cpressey> fizzie: that (missing ^^) bugged me too, i actually had a thought about it the other day, though: it's probably missing because xor lacks short-circuit semantics
21:52:08 <cpressey> the design methodology of C has always favoured the compiler over the programmer anyway :)
21:52:52 <graue> actually the use of #include (rather than an "import" statement, for instance) is bad for the compiler too, since parsing header files is slow
21:52:52 <lament> ^^ is missing because it would look too cute
21:53:31 <cpressey> graue: ok, in that case, it was favouring the OS's obsession with text files :)
21:53:53 <GregorR> I think #include vs #import is a simple we-didn't-know-any-better-at-the-time problem.
21:55:35 <fizzie> Many compilers cheat with pre-compiled headers and such.
21:58:09 <GregorR> G!{L[a(_a)2=(_b)1=,,/(_a)/(_b)<1>^\<0>^\<0>][o(_a)2=(_b)1=,,/(_a)<1>^\/(_b)<1>^\<0>][x(_a)2=(_b)1=,,/(_a)/(_b)<0>^\<1>^\/(_b)<1>^\<0>][n(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>^]}
21:58:20 <GregorR> Yay, I finally have logic in Glass :P
22:08:24 <GregorR> How do you change the text of the {{stub}} message on Wikimedia?
22:24:00 <graue> starting your own wiki?
22:25:05 <GregorR> No, I was changing the stub message on the Esowiki.
22:25:38 <graue> but I loved the existing stub message! :(
22:26:03 <graue> we were going to get married in January :(
22:26:13 <GregorR> "It means that it is not detailed enougg" -> "This means that it is not detailed enough"
22:26:41 <GregorR> Except that it didn't say "enougg" :P
22:26:58 <GregorR> So have I hideously scarred and disfigured your bride-to-be?
22:28:51 <graue> yes, but I will scar it some more because it still sounds a bit awkward
23:03:09 -!- calamari has joined.
23:07:34 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:07:35 <calamari> I shut down my computer last night
23:07:40 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
23:07:47 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
23:07:56 <EsoBot> Invalid command `man'.
23:07:57 <calamari> hehe that was the next thing I was going to work on
23:08:12 <calamari> the help system isn't very helpful
23:08:26 <calamari> I want to move it to private message, then I can be more verbose
23:08:46 <graue> is this written in java as usual?
23:09:02 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
23:09:13 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
23:09:18 <EsoBot> Killed 2: Out of memory.
23:09:33 <graue> by the way, as a Java user, what do you think of Glass?
23:11:00 <calamari> I haven't learned how to use glass all the way yet, but I like the OO/pointers thing a lot (not many do OO), and it's a great looking language too... so yeah, Glass is very cool :)
23:15:19 <calamari> dunno why, but I think it's really neat that Java can run out of memory yet kill the thread and keep running as if nothing ever happened. Maybe Linux plays a part in that too.. hehe
23:16:02 <calamari> the M$ experience taught me that such things must lead to a crash.. need to unlearn that
23:18:09 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b helloum.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b
23:18:42 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/factor.b
23:18:58 <graue> doesn't that require input?
23:19:31 <EsoBot> 525454650: 2 3 3 5 5 7 31 5381
23:20:13 <calamari> the best for spamming the channel is the random.b from the files archive :)
23:21:06 <calamari> E!bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/random.b
23:21:10 <EsoBot> œua\hpdg_ܻrɇyidR@J* 'NH}tocaay^8~N@_HTỎ@=D8:a=wC8_xLYp6Yo[8\6DN
23:21:58 <graue> I have my laptop now, so maybe I can run Java programs soon (after it downloads 96 updates, that is)
23:22:36 <graue> no, it's just the security updates for hoary
23:22:59 <calamari> breezy isn't that much diffrent than hoary.. hoary was a bit different than warty though
23:23:21 <calamari> I think the warty hoary thing was because of xorg and the newer gnome
23:23:51 <calamari> I wish there was applications:/// again tho :( still can't edit my menus easily
23:24:31 <calamari> They need to make it drag & drop like win98 through xp have all had
23:24:59 <graue> geez, the bandwidth bill for security.ubuntu.com must be huge
23:25:29 <calamari> I think part of the problem is that they are trying to conform to that Linux standard thing (can't think of its name)
23:25:49 <calamari> I've looked at the menu standard they are using, and it's horrible
23:26:10 <calamari> For example, it says that entries should never be delted, just hidden
23:27:32 <graue> I'm downloading about 158 MB of updates
23:27:32 <graue> the freedesktop.org standards?
23:33:31 <graue> agh! ls sorts case-insensitively! and when I press Tab in the shell to get a list of possibilities, it lists dot files!
23:34:42 * graue has gotten very used to the BSD userland, clearly
23:37:27 <calamari> I never noticed the sorting thing, because Windows never cared much about case .. ehhe
23:38:54 <calamari> mine doesn't seem to list . files on tab
23:39:05 <calamari> unless I first type a dot then press tab
23:40:31 <graue> well, it doesn't include . and ..
23:40:59 <graue> but other than that, it definitely does do that here
23:41:16 <graue> bash, as configured on ubuntu, does
23:41:37 <graue> I don't understand why it would sort case-insensitively though
23:41:49 <graue> that defeats the whole purpose of "README" and "Makefile" and "COPYING"
23:42:02 <lindi-> graue: what locales are you using?
23:42:34 <calamari> I thought those were upper case just to make them stand out.. learned something new today :)
23:43:34 <graue> lindi-: I have no idea, so whatever's the default
23:45:26 <lindi-> graue: put the output of "locale" online somewhere
23:45:57 <lindi-> calamari: i'm fine, been busy with bug reports and school stuff, what's up for you?
23:46:26 <calamari> school, work.. messing around in eso-land :)
23:47:42 <lindi-> mostly to gnu classpath but also to random other projects
23:47:59 <graue> lindi-: everything says "en_US.UTF-8"
23:48:22 <graue> lindi-: except LC_ALL which is empty
23:48:58 <lindi-> calamari: latest one took a while to find, some statistics stuff in octave was broken and gave wrong results
23:49:31 <calamari> lindi: I hear that work on classpath has really been strong lately, that's great
23:49:40 <lindi-> graue: try "env LC_COLLATE=C ls"
23:49:57 <calamari> maybe someday I'll be able to get my swing apps to work on it
23:49:58 <lindi-> calamari: yep, it's definitely improving
23:50:40 <lindi-> calamari: just give me an url and i can check them out with latest cvs head
23:54:40 <calamari> lindi-: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/bfdebug-1.61.jar
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23:57:17 <graue> didn't someone implement sokoban in befunge once?
23:57:53 <graue> lindi-: what does linux use instead of a .profile?
23:58:09 <graue> I put "export LC_COLLATE=C" in my .profile but it hasn't helped
23:58:11 <graue> or bash or whatever
23:59:21 <lindi-> hmm, or is it just .bash_profile
00:00:09 <graue> that doesn't seem to work either (adding exports there)
00:00:57 <graue> ah, .bashrc worked
00:03:04 <graue> here is the sokoban program I was thinking of: http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2001-q2-2
00:03:30 -!- graue has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:05:02 <GregorR-L> G!{M[moO!"You suck GregorR!"oo.?]}
00:08:37 <calamari> I see that you noticed my little _o -> o trick hehe
00:08:55 <GregorR-L> Actually it uncovered a memory leak :P
00:09:10 <GregorR-L> M doesn't delete its class variables :P
00:11:06 <GregorR-L> A memory leak ... that I haven't fixed 8-D
00:26:35 <GregorR-L> BTW, I'm considering making a competitor to EsoBot, since the idea is far better than GlassBot's.
00:27:44 <kipple> ooh. many bots here now :)
00:28:00 <kipple> what does the esobot do?
00:28:02 <GregorR-L> If calamari would keep EsoBot on 24/7, I could disable BFBot.
00:28:20 <GregorR-L> kipple: Several languages, any implemented in Java could be made to be done in EsoBot.
00:29:11 <kipple> if calamari can't keep it on 24/7 I'd be happy to host it
00:29:34 <GregorR-L> Not as soon as EgoBot comes out and is better ;)
00:30:56 <kipple> hmm. I could write a small bot that just pipes the program a regular interpreter and return the output. That way I could easily interpret all languages I have interpreter for :)
00:32:56 <GregorR-L> The best part of EsoBot is that it has no problem with infinite loops, since it can multiprocess.
00:34:07 <marcan> just another guy who thinks esoteric languages are fun :)
00:34:38 <calamari> kipple: thanks for the hosting offer :)
00:34:52 <marcan> I've got an UML server by the way
00:34:57 <marcan> so if hosting is needed, I've got some
00:35:25 <calamari> kipple: I'd run it on my shell, but they specifically disallow irc bots
00:36:03 <marcan> my other hosting provider used to disallow IRC bots too
00:36:06 <kipple> my host is just an old 187MHz debian box under my bed, but at least its on 24/7
00:36:13 <marcan> but my current one allows anything, basically (as long as it is legal)
00:36:27 <marcan> they don't like excessive CPU usage though, but I can throttle that
00:37:05 <marcan> nice thing about UML is you get your own virtual distro
00:37:09 <marcan> so you have full privileges
00:37:49 <kipple> what's UML (not the markup language)
00:38:14 <marcan> basically, they run linux as a process under linux
00:38:20 <marcan> so you effectively have your own kernel and userland
00:38:28 <marcan> (you get a virtual hard disk partition)
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00:39:15 <graue> what are some of the more "practical" esolangs, like ones I could write a CGI script in?
00:39:30 <graue> Glass would work for that?
00:39:34 <graue> I should try it then
00:39:38 <marcan> I guess Funge would work too, but it would be interesting to code in
00:40:00 <graue> can you parse text in those languages, without, like, using 90 screenfuls of junk to do it?
00:40:04 <marcan> oops, kipple was faster on that one :)
00:40:29 <GregorR-L> In Glass you could make a nice parser class and then never type it again :)
00:40:32 <graue> I mean I'm not really gonna be able to parse headers with brainfuck, for instance
00:40:48 <marcan> I guess you could parse text decently with befunge or Glass
00:40:59 <GregorR-L> Though I need to finish the input class before any of this would be useful ;)
00:41:16 <marcan> for CGI you'd need environment variables too
00:42:15 <graue> just need to write a little wrapper that provides all the environment variables on stdin, followed by a blank line
00:42:28 <graue> GregorR-L, CGI uses environment variables e.g. $HTTP_CONTENT_LENGTH etc
00:42:46 <GregorR-L> OH, I'm underspecifying mentally :P
00:43:40 <marcan> I'd really love to see something complex implemented on a layered Brainfuck :)
00:43:50 <marcan> like, implement a simple opcode language on top of brainfuck
00:43:56 <marcan> the something more complex on top of that
00:43:59 <marcan> then write a game on it
00:44:04 <marcan> would be slow as hell, though
00:46:28 <graue> I've been thinking of a Brainfuck with procedures
00:46:35 <graue> it would be compiled into ordinary Brainfuck
00:46:57 <graue> by inlining recursively (procedures in this language could not make recursive calls)
00:47:23 <graue> someone already made BFM, Brainfuck with macros, but I remember not liking that language (or its implementation) for some reason
00:47:48 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:48:21 -!- CXI has joined.
00:49:01 <kipple> graue: seen this? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pbrain
00:49:55 <graue> kipple: ah, interesting
00:50:00 <graue> kipple: I was thinking proper names though
00:50:25 <graue> like (add) (brainfuck code for adding goes here)
00:50:52 <kipple> I like the pbrain approach as it is a bit more bf-like than others I've seen
00:53:42 <graue> having procedures at all isn't bf-like
00:54:16 <kipple> true. I said _more bf.like_ though
00:54:31 <kipple> it doesn't pollute the source code with user-friendly keywords
01:11:55 <graue> with my version, the only place letters would be significant is inside parentheses
01:16:44 <graue> doesn't the numbering limit Pbrain to 256 procedures?
01:16:55 <kipple> yes (if you use 8-bit cells)
01:18:26 <graue> never mind, I see how it doesn't
01:19:23 <graue> er, in a way, because you can make a procedure 0 add its version of procedures 2-255, and procedure 1 add its version of those procedures, for a total of 510 procedures
01:19:55 <graue> then calling procedure 2-14 becomes [-]++:++++++++++++:
01:20:44 <graue> this would be pretty hard to compile into regular brainfuck
01:25:51 <graue> we ought to start using the ESOLANG mailing list again
01:26:11 <graue> much of the chatter on the wiki really doesn't belong on wiki talk pages at all, since it's about the languages themselves
01:26:25 <graue> and it keeps going into indentation overdrive and running off the right side of the page, too
01:26:40 <kipple> yeah, but not everyone wants to be on the mailing list :(
01:26:47 <graue> kipple: really? who doesn't?
01:27:20 <kipple> don't know specifically, but in general I feel there are always some who don't want to bother with subscribing to mailing list
01:27:36 <kipple> that is of course mostly their problem
01:29:56 <marcan> has anyone written a Tetris game in brainfuck?
01:30:03 <marcan> that would be an interesting project
01:30:18 <kipple> I don't know any games written in bf...
01:30:43 <graue> how would you do the delaying?
01:30:45 <marcan> it would need minor changes to the interpreter though
01:30:48 <graue> brainfuck can't call nanosleep
01:31:07 <marcan> well, you could just loop for a while
01:31:11 <marcan> and make a crude delay
01:31:31 <marcan> the interpreter would need to support unbuffered and nonblocking input though
01:31:34 <graue> that sounds like DOS games written in Pascal
01:32:18 <graue> unbuffered and nonblocking input would be sufficient for anything visual, using vt100 sequences or whatever
01:32:40 <graue> but I don't think you'll have any luck getting a fudged delay to work on more than one interpreter, let alone computer
01:32:59 <marcan> I guess we could add in another operator though
01:33:13 <marcan> delay current cell in ms
01:33:19 <graue> that's just what I was thinking
01:33:49 <marcan> that would be a pretty interesting BF program though
01:33:52 <graue> how about sokoban in brainfuck? make the player type "u<enter>" to move up, etc
01:34:44 <marcan> similar to tetris in essence
01:35:25 <graue> how? tetris requires delays and reflexes
01:39:20 <marcan> but you still have an array of blocks, and move around things
01:39:25 <marcan> you need some of the same principles
01:39:39 <marcan> collision detection and moving on a 2D grid (using 1D memory)
01:41:09 <marcan> http://jonripley.com/brainfuck/games/
01:43:53 <fizzie> There's bfvga, but no-one sane would write a game in it.
01:44:27 <calamari> marcan: type this: /msg EsoBot E!bf http://localhost/bf/LostKng.b
01:45:07 <EsoBot> 3:calamari, 4:marcan, 5:marcan
01:45:28 <calamari> marcan: then use E!input <process> ...
01:45:42 <marcan> impressive, given that my interpreter has yet to print out a single character
01:45:59 <marcan> time to get a faster interpreter (that I never thought I'd need)
01:46:06 <calamari> marcan: bf is my favorite esoteric language :)
01:46:48 <kipple> Lost Kingdom is not written in brainfuck though, so it doesn't really count.
01:47:00 <fizzie> (bfvga's a bf with a 64000-byte data array mapped to the 320x200x8bit-sized VGA mode display memory - http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060 )
01:47:29 <calamari> blah, whatever, it counts in my book 1) it's a cool game, 2) it would take too long to write directly
01:48:13 <graue> it does demonstrate the coolness of BFBASIC
01:48:31 <kipple> it also demonstrates what's possible with brainfuck itself
01:48:39 <graue> but I don't see at as much different, really, than distributing a binary program with no source code
01:48:44 <graue> I guess it also does that, true
01:49:09 <graue> and stress-tests interpreters...
01:49:32 <graue> that reminds me, I could never get anything nontrivial working with BFBASIC
01:49:46 <graue> the resulting BF programs were just freezing or producing garbage
01:49:58 <graue> does it make weird assumptions about the environment (e.g. 16-bit word size)?
01:50:00 <calamari> there were some serious bugs in the for/next code for a while
01:50:38 <calamari> I think it may make some assumptions
01:50:52 <calamari> I don't remember, that's really sad
01:51:25 <graue> EOF=0, 8-bit cells with wraparound, would be pretty sane assumptions, but I was using an implementation that met those
01:51:47 <calamari> I don't think there is any EOF checking
01:51:55 <calamari> since it doesn't really have any file functions
01:52:20 <graue> maybe the implementation was just broken
01:52:31 <graue> I was using some weird DOS thing that makes .com files, I think, at the time
01:52:32 <calamari> yep, depends on 8 bit cells (at least NOT does)
01:53:06 <calamari> I made a few bf -> com compilers
01:53:06 <graue> calamari: I don't think so
01:53:12 <graue> calamari: maybe though
01:53:27 <calamari> since they didn't handle cr/lf correctly
01:54:08 <graue> kipple: how's progress on the Kipple '05 spec?
01:54:30 <kipple> funny yous should ask. I'm working on it right now :)
01:54:48 <marcan> when will we get bfgl?
01:54:51 <kipple> pretty close to done I think
01:56:32 <kipple> hmm. is there a true esoteric language that at the same time is efficient enough for graphics?
01:57:13 <calamari> iirc it was similar to befunge with a huge library of functions
01:59:05 <marcan> (and my firefox just crashed on its homepage)
02:03:39 <marcan> I'm pretty sure it was the flash
02:03:52 <calamari> yeah, that's what would always crash me in 98
02:04:04 <calamari> hasn't happened in linux for me yet, tho
02:04:35 <marcan> I'm on amd64, and the official flash (which usually works) doesn't here
02:04:47 <marcan> so I used to have gplflash, which never worked and always crashed
02:04:55 <marcan> but flashblock would usually stop the flashes anyway
02:04:59 <calamari> btw are you through with the game?
02:05:05 <marcan> I'm completely killing gplflash now
02:08:32 <kipple> graue: about Kipple 05: I don't think I will finish the spec until I have it fully implemented
02:09:09 <graue> cipple will need updating too!
02:09:42 <kipple> have you read the new spec draft?
02:10:28 <kipple> unless they want to implement the optional features, updating cipple and orkipple will be rather trivial
02:12:33 <graue> well, cipple is my implementation of choice so (no offense, but) if cipple doesn't implement it I'm not going to be using it
02:12:56 <graue> and it does implement the "optional string preprocessing feature"
02:13:03 <graue> jix wanted it as close to the original interpreter as possible
02:13:18 <graue> have you written a Glainfuck?
02:15:02 <marcan> writing a BF interpreter is easier than writing a BF program in many cases, which is one of the most ironic things I like about BF
02:15:18 <kipple> graue: what cipple implements is not up to me, unfortunately ;)
02:15:52 <kipple> marcan: yeah. In almost ANY case I would say
02:16:25 <marcan> except simple stuff like [+.] or [,.[-]+] or so
02:16:45 <marcan> (add a + in front of those to actually make them do anything
02:16:54 <graue> that first one should be +[.+]
02:18:03 <marcan> My Python BF interpreter supports unlimited memory in both directions, and unlimited cell size
02:18:17 <marcan> of course, programs which assume wraparound will fail
02:19:38 <calamari> graue: .+[.+] if you want \0 too :)
02:20:18 <graue> I think someone wrote an interpreter once where printing \0 ended the program
02:20:40 <marcan> hmm... Thinking about interpreters and compilers...
02:20:50 <marcan> all that is kind of boring
02:21:22 <marcan> without an FPGA or a microcontroller?
02:22:02 <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Hardware
02:22:20 <graue> why isn't that information in the esolang article?
02:22:26 <marcan> one is an VHDL design for an FPGA and the other is for a PIC16F84 uC
02:22:53 <marcan> the PIC one is essentially an interpreter for an already existing CPU though
02:23:03 <marcan> and the VHDL one is an interpreter in a lower level hardware description language
02:23:26 <marcan> but It'd be cool making an interpreter out of logic gates
02:23:31 <calamari> need to make one out of transistors to be pure enough?
02:23:53 <marcan> hell, someone made a complete CPU running a multitasking OS using 74xx gates
02:23:59 <marcan> a brainfuck CPU is a piece of cake
02:24:30 <marcan> http://www.homebrewcpu.com/
02:25:11 <marcan> and connect to the computer :)
02:26:39 <marcan> http://www.magic-1.org/
02:26:43 <marcan> and there's the webserver
02:37:46 <marcan> well, brainfuck would be way easier
02:38:53 <marcan> all you need is SRAM, a pointer register (with increment/decrement), a data register for inc/dec the memory, and a serial port for , and .
02:39:03 <marcan> and some logic for [ and ], which would be the most complicated part of it
02:39:13 <marcan> (it would take just a couple counters though)
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02:55:43 <marcan> calamari: I'm going to see if I can do it on a simulator
02:58:17 <GregorR> calamari: I'm wrong, there actually is /not/ a memory leak there :P
02:58:22 <GregorR> I was positive that there was XD
02:58:38 <GregorR> Glass, if you made a class-wide variable of the M class.
02:59:00 <calamari> you may be able to simplify [] if you don't need "pure" bf
02:59:28 <GregorR> Yeah, [] is quite different from how a real CPU would handle jumps.
02:59:50 <marcan> it can be made simple though
03:00:27 <marcan> all [ has to do is disable instruction execution (ie turn everything into a NOP) and count the number of [] until the number reaches 0, then turn it back on, if the register is 0
03:00:35 <marcan> and ] just does the opposite, reversing the memory direction
03:00:58 <calamari> I was thinking along the lines of the x86 JMP and JNZ :)
03:01:23 <marcan> well, I could make the source include more information
03:01:29 <marcan> like have [ include the address of the matching ]
03:01:35 <calamari> but then you get into multiple bytes per instruction which introduces its own complication
03:02:14 <calamari> I'd like to see one built with transistors
03:02:45 <marcan> it would basically just be the same thing as using 74xx gates, but breaking down the gates into transistors
03:02:48 <marcan> no real changes though
03:03:16 <calamari> how many transistors are in the simple 74xx's?
03:03:37 <marcan> a single nand gate is what, two FETs or so
03:03:55 <calamari> so it may not be a huge deal to go pure then :)
03:04:05 <marcan> of course, just a pain in the ass
03:04:27 <marcan> like, a single 8bit latch in 74xx is a bunch of transistors in a repeating arrangement
03:04:48 <calamari> who needs 8bit.. 1 bit should be enough for anybody .. ;)
03:04:49 <marcan> oh, and a pain to route on a PCB :)
03:06:10 <GregorR> Goooooooooo bitchanger! :)
03:06:14 <calamari> the part I have never quite been able to grasp is how the clock/crystal thing works
03:06:20 <graue> are there any logic-gate-like languages?
03:06:50 <calamari> graue: you mean like part #, wire connections?
03:07:21 <graue> I mean like nand and xor gates and stuff
03:07:22 <marcan> there are circuit description languages
03:07:24 <calamari> that'd be pretty much like a chip simulator, right?
03:07:25 <marcan> and then you can emulate them
03:07:27 <graue> no, esoteric languages
03:09:24 <GregorR> {M[(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_t)$(_c)(_i)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_c)(_i)c.?(_o)o.?(_c)(_i)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\]} < cat in glass 8-D
03:10:14 <graue> very good, but can you write "dog" in glass?
03:10:35 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"dog"(_o)o.?]}
03:10:38 <graue> the little-known dog utility, provided on some historical UNIXes, prints its output in reverse order after converting all letters to uppercase
03:11:04 <graue> is there no language based on nand gates?
03:11:07 <graue> I could have sworn there was
03:11:29 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
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03:11:31 <marcan> you can build any circuit out of nand gates
03:12:16 <graue> yes, I remember learning that fact in conjunction with (I thought) some sort of language or VM based on the concept
03:12:23 <calamari> marcan: there you go.. build a computer.. hehe
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03:13:09 <marcan> a NAND gate with both inputs tied gives you an inverter
03:13:16 <marcan> put that after another NAND, you get AND
03:13:30 <marcan> put two inverters in front of NAND, you get OR
03:13:41 <marcan> and you can build XOR out of that
03:13:47 <marcan> and flipflops, and anything you want
03:14:30 <GregorR> I prefer to think of it as EQUAL :P
03:14:48 <graue> and XOR as NEQUAL?
03:14:49 <marcan> also, is there a boolean XOR in C?
03:14:57 <marcan> I always wondered that and never bothered to look
03:14:58 <graue> we were just discussing that earlier today
03:15:06 <graue> GregorR, he means a ^^
03:15:18 <graue> we were just discussing that earlier today and we decided it doesn't exist because:
03:15:22 <graue> 1) it would look too cute
03:15:25 <graue> 2) it couldn't be short-circuited
03:15:37 <GregorR> int xor(int a, int b) { if ((a && !b) || (b && !a)) return true; return false; }
03:16:31 <graue> I want to be able to do "(a ^^ b) = 1;"
03:16:34 <graue> that would be cool
03:17:04 <graue> wait, that doesn't make any sense
03:17:23 <graue> if they're not equal then it sets them both to 1
03:17:24 <marcan> it'd make a nice esoteric instruction
03:17:28 <graue> if they're equal then it does nothing
03:17:30 <marcan> may assign the value to one bit
03:17:38 <graue> I prefer my version
03:18:20 <graue> of course "(a && b) = 1;" would set both to 1 unconditionally
03:18:50 <GregorR> if (a ^^ b) = 1; set them both to one, then it would make (a ^^ b) != 1; ...
03:19:04 <graue> and "(a || b) = 1;" would set b to 1 only if a was initially nonzero, but would always set a to 1 (after reading its initial value)
03:19:49 <marcan> someone just called me due to a virus in his PC
03:19:59 <marcan> I wonder if you could write a virus in BF or something
03:20:08 <graue> you could write a worm in l33t
03:20:09 <marcan> it has connection support, heh
03:21:13 <graue> you could not infect OpenBSD boxes with it, though
03:21:20 <graue> at least not if they were running a default install
03:21:20 <marcan> anyway, I'm off to have a look at his PC
03:24:20 <GregorR> So graue, should I start making that CGI class for Glass? ;)
03:29:03 * GregorR tries to decide whether it would be prudent to build support for environment variables into Glass ...
03:30:39 <graue> hehe, make it really bloated and include a zlib class in the standard library
03:33:20 <GregorR> Hmm, I have no way of interfacing to C, so one would have to implement zlib in Glass XD
03:34:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
03:34:12 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F FE Fib I L LameQuine M Main O Rand S T Test V
03:34:20 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :More upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
03:34:22 -!- GlassBot has quit ("More upgrades!").
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03:35:15 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
03:35:17 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib I L LameQuine M Main O Rand S T Test V
03:35:35 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
03:35:38 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib I L LameQuine M O Rand S T V
03:35:47 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"T"(_d)(fl).?]}
03:41:58 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"+++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++."oo.?]}
03:42:00 <GlassBot> +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.
03:42:08 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++."oo.?]}
03:42:08 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.
03:43:37 <GregorR> I just got my first Glass CGI script working :)
03:44:10 <GregorR> I'm behind a LAN which is behind a LAN.
03:44:21 <GregorR> {M[m(_o)O!"Content-type: text/plain\n\nThis is a test\n"(_o)o.?]}
03:44:41 <graue> that's trivial though; it doesn't respond to input
03:44:42 <tokigun> that's so simple... how about complex code?
03:44:44 <calamari> G!{M[moO!"F!34,E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.34,"oo.?]}
03:44:46 <GlassBot> F!34,E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.34,
03:44:46 <falsebot> Error: Argument to ! is not a function
03:45:15 <GregorR> I'm still working on it ;)
03:45:30 <tokigun> GregorR: hunt the wumpus! XD
03:45:45 <tokigun> ah, finally i'm rewriting SADOL interpreter in C++
03:46:06 <tokigun> i have old interpreter written in C, but it was... ehh... whatever.
03:46:07 <calamari> F!"G!{M[moO!"34,"E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++."34,"oo.?]}"
03:46:07 <falsebot> G!{M[moO!"E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++."oo.?]}
03:46:08 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.
03:49:27 <GregorR> OK, it will clearly need access to the environment for GET, but what about POST ...
03:50:18 <calamari> F!"G!{M[moO!"34,"BF!+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>++++>++++<<<<-]>+++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++.+++.>-.<---.-----.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----.+++.>>++.<<----------------.>.+++++++++++..>---..>-....<...<<-------.>>+++++++++++++++++++.>....<<..>>...<.>........<<..>--..<++.<++.>>++.>.<<+.>.>.<<.>--.>...<<."34,"oo.?]}"
03:50:40 <calamari> BF!+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>++++>++++<<<<-]>+++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++.+++.>-.<---.-----.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----.+++.>>++.<<----------------.>.+++++++++++..>---..>-....<...<<-------.>>+++++++++++++++++++.>....<<..>>...<.>........<<..>--..<++.<++.>>++.>.<<+.>.>.<<.>--.>...<<.
03:50:43 <BFBot> Ebfi factor.b +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.
03:50:56 <tokigun> GregorR: well, but POST method requires environment variable...
03:51:14 <calamari> BF!+++++++++++[>++++++>+++>++++>++++<<<<-]>+++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++.+++.>-.<---.-----.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----.+++.>>++.<<----------------.>.+++++++++++..>---..>-....<...<<-------.>>+++++++++++++++++++.>....<<..>>...<.>........<<..>--..<++.<++.>>++.>.<<+.>.>.<<.>--.>...<<.
03:51:15 <BFBot> Ebfi factor.b +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.
03:51:23 <GregorR> tokigun: POST seems to put vars on stdin.
03:51:26 <calamari> weird.. must have copied the wrong string
03:51:48 <tokigun> GregorR: yes, but its length is given to environment variable "CONTENT_LENGTH".
03:52:10 <GregorR> OK, I'm going to have to make environment vars >_<
03:54:51 -!- graue has quit.
04:04:11 <calamari> I can't output ! without it being interpreted
04:05:54 -!- Sgep has quit.
04:06:09 <GregorR> That is, you can't: echo Hello world!
04:10:30 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Even more upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
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04:16:46 <GregorR> Hmm, will this flood or not...
04:16:47 <GregorR> G!{(Hshe)[(c__)k"a"=v<0>=n<0>=][(gk)k*][(sk)k1=,][(gv)v*][(sv)v1=,][(gn)n*][(sn)n1=,]}{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_w)*c(sn).?\cc(gn).?=(_f)c(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=
04:16:50 <GregorR> ,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c(sv).?]}
04:18:38 <GregorR> G!{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_w)*c(sn).?\cc(gn).?=(_f)c(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c(sv).?]}
04:19:24 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"A"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
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04:21:05 <GregorR> G!{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_w)*c(sn).?\cc(gn).?=(_f)c(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c*(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c*(sv).?]}
04:21:11 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"A"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
04:21:31 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"C"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
04:21:40 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"E"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
04:21:44 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"A"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
04:23:21 <GregorR> G!{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c*(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_w)*c*(sn).?\cc*(gn).?=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c*(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c*(sv).?]}
04:23:28 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"A"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
04:23:42 <calamari> F!"G!{M[moO!"34,"BF!++++++++++++++[>+++>+++++>+++>++>+++++++<<<<<-]>>-.>>+++++.>.++++.<-.+++++++++++...<+...>.....>-----------.<<<-------.>.........<.<+..>>.....<<...>--..>>++.>++.<<<++.<.+++.>.>.<<.>--.>...<<."34,"oo.?]}"
04:23:43 <falsebot> G!{M[moO!"BF!++++++++++++++[>+++>+++++>+++>++>+++++++<<<<<-]>>-.>>+++++.>.++++.<-.+++++++++++...<+...>.....>-----------.<<<-------.>.........<.<+..>>.....<<...>--..>>++.>++.<<<++.<.+++.>.>.<<.>--.>...<<."oo.?]}
04:23:48 <GlassBot> BF!++++++++++++++[>+++>+++++>+++>++>+++++++<<<<<-]>>-.>>+++++.>.++++.<-.+++++++++++...<+...>.....>-----------.<<<-------.>.........<.<+..>>.....<<...>--..>>++.>++.<<<++.<.+++.>.>.<<.>--.>...<<.
04:23:50 <BFBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<+++.
04:24:34 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_s)S!"A""A"(_s)e.?(_o)(on).?]}
04:25:04 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"Hello?"(_o)o.?]}
04:25:31 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_s)S!"A""A"(_s)e.?" "(_o)o.?(_o)(on).?]}
04:25:44 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_s)S!"A""A"(_s)e.?"A"(_o)o.?(_o)(on).?]}
04:26:59 <GregorR> G!{S[l~S.l~][i~S.i~][(si)~S.si~][a~S.a~][e~S.e~][(ns)~S.ns~][(sn)~S.sn~]}
04:27:06 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_s)S!"A""A"(_s)e.?(_o)(on).?]}
04:27:13 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"A"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
04:50:46 * calamari should learn how to make a bi-quine >=)
04:51:03 <calamari> I think I need to learn how to write a normal quine first
04:52:39 <GregorR> G!{(FE)[(fe)(_o)O!(_s)S!<34>(_s)(ns).?"F!"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?,]}
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04:56:00 <calamari> G!{(FE)[(fe)(_o)O!(_s)S!<34>(_s)(ns).?"F!"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?,]}
04:56:01 <GregorR> Anyway calamari, you don't need a biquine.
04:56:15 <GregorR> That makes a class called FE (False Exploder)
04:56:18 <GregorR> You just need to call it from glass.
04:56:27 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}
04:56:28 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"
04:56:30 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"
04:56:32 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"
04:56:34 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"
04:56:36 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m(_f)(FE)!(_f)(fe).?]}"
04:56:37 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^PART #esoteric"(_o)o.?]}
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04:57:48 <calamari> F!["'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'[,34,$!34,'],!
04:57:48 <falsebot> ["'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'[,34,$!34,'],!
04:58:25 <calamari> F!"F!"["'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'[,34,$!34,'],!
04:58:25 <falsebot> F!["'[,34,$!34,'],!"]'[,34,$!34,'],!
04:58:36 <calamari> I don't really understand how quines work
04:59:27 <calamari> I don't think it'll work for falsebot.. doesn't notice it's own output there
04:59:28 <GregorR> Usually, a quine contains two segments, a "beginning" and an "end". The beginning and end are both stored in strings, so that they may be brought up without actually putting them into the file.
05:00:00 <GregorR> Therefore, you can cause it to output the beginning, a quotation mark, the beginning again, another quotation mark, etc, while only having the beginning code in the file twice.
05:00:16 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
05:00:18 <GlassBot> {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
05:02:10 <calamari> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
05:02:12 <GlassBot> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
05:02:26 <GregorR> No, GlassBot does not respond to itself either ;)
05:05:25 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>++++>++++>++++<<<<<-]>+++.>.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++.>-.>-.>-...>-....<...<.<+++++++++++.<-----------.-----------------------------.>.>.>..<<..>...<<.>>.<.......>>+++++++++++++++++..<++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<<.>>.+.<<.>++...>.<<--.>.>.>>.<<.
05:05:27 <EsoBot> E!bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++<<-]>-.>---.<-.+.
05:05:57 <calamari> hmm guess EsoBot doesn't either
05:06:25 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++<<-]>-.>---.<-.+.
05:09:21 <GregorR> Not that it could possibly have been helpful :P
05:10:10 <GregorR> If you knew Glass, the Glass quine would be the perfect quine-by-dissection example :P
05:10:44 <calamari> I see a little bit going on there
05:11:27 <calamari> but glass makes my eyes glaze over when looking at it.. which is a sign of a sucessful esolang ;)
05:22:20 <GregorR> World's worst C quine (just wrote it):
05:22:28 <GregorR> char(X) int main(){char a[]="#include <stdio.h> #define A(X) fputs(X stdout) #define B(X) pu char(X) int main(){char a[]=",b[]=";a[18]=10;a[39]=10;a[63]=10;A(a);a[18]=32;a[39]=32;a[63]=32;B(34);A(a);B(34);B(44);B(98);B(91);B(93);B(61);B(34);A(b);B(34);A(b);}";a[18]=10;a[39]=10;a[63]=10;A(a);a[18]=32;a[39]=32;a[63]=32;B(34);A(a);B(34);B(44);B(98);B(91);B(93);B(61);B(34);A(b);B(34);A(b);}
05:22:37 <GregorR> Woah, that didn't paste right.
05:23:15 <GregorR> #define A(X) fputs(X,stdout)
05:23:20 <GregorR> int main(){char a[]="#include <stdio.h> #define A(X) fputs(X,stdout) #define B(X) putchar(X) int main(){char a[]=",b[]=";a[18]=10;a[47]=10;a[71]=10;A(a);a[18]=32;a[47]=32;a[71]=32;B(34);A(a);B(34);B(44);B(98);B(91);B(93);B(61);B(34);A(b);B(34);A(b);}";a[18]=10;a[47]=10;a[71]=10;A(a);a[18]=32;a[47]=32;a[71]=32;B(34);A(a);B(34);B(44);B(98);B(91);B(93);B(61);B(34);A(b);B(34);A(b);}
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05:49:50 <GregorR> I know, being out of #esoteric is scary.
06:00:02 <GregorR> G!{(Hshe)[(c__)k"a"=v<0>=n<0>=][(gk)k*][(sk)k1=,][(gv)v*][(sv)v1=,][(gn)n*][(sn)n1=,]}
06:00:08 <GregorR> G!{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_o)O!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c*(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_m)*(_w)*(sk).?(_w)*c*(sn).?\cc*(gn).?=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c*(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c*(sv).?]}
06:00:32 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"E"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
06:01:13 <GregorR> G!{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c*(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_m)*(_w)*(sk).?(_w)*c*(sn).?\cc*(gn).?=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c*(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c*(sv).?]}
06:01:46 -!- GlassBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:02:52 <GregorR> Forgot to do my last upgrade :P
06:03:07 -!- GlassBot has joined.
06:03:17 <GregorR> G!{(Hsh)[(c__)(_v)V!h(_v)n.?=h*(Hshe)!][(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][l(_a)A!(_s)S!(_v)V!(_t)$(_m)1=,ch*=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_f)(_add)c*(gn).?<0>(_a)e.?=/(_add)(_add)<0>=(_w)(_v)n.?=(_w)*(Hshe)!(_m)*(_w)*(sk).?(_w)*c*(sn).?\cc*(gn).?=(_f)c*(gk).?(_m)*(_s)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\][g(_t)$(_w)1=,(_w)*(_t)l.?c*(gv).?][s(_t)$(_w)2=(_v)1=,,(_w)*(_t)l.?(_v)*c*(sv).?]}
06:03:31 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"E"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
06:03:37 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"A"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
06:03:45 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"B"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
06:03:49 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!(_h)(Hsh)!"A""B"(_h)s.?"C""D"(_h)s.?"E""F"(_h)s.?"C"(_h)g.?(_o)o.?]}
06:05:49 <GregorR> And I'm not just saying that because I wrote it ;)
06:06:01 <lament> but much too verbose :P
06:06:44 <GregorR> It's not actually very verbose, it's just that there's an overhead that goes on /EVERY/ program.
06:08:08 <GregorR> Well, that and, simple math requires the instantiation of an object :P
06:09:03 <lament> but it's still something like a = 1 + 2
06:09:24 <GregorR> Yes, but Python isn't designed to be idiotic ;)
06:09:39 <lament> are you sure of that? :)
06:09:57 <lament> i guess Glass is just better designed
06:10:25 <GregorR> It's OO, has a main stack, uses postfix notation, and extensively uses pointers - now THAT'S idiotic!
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11:04:57 <CXI> esobot disappeared, I think
12:06:11 <jix> GregorR: ping
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13:05:15 <jix> i wrote a glass syntax colorer for my favorite text editor
13:06:07 <kipple> let me guess? SubEthaEdit?
13:06:22 <jix> textmate > subethaedit
13:06:45 <jix> http://macromates.com/
13:07:21 <jix> making syntax colorings for textmate is easy for subethaedit it is hard
14:04:57 <jix> there is no way to swap the top elements of the stack in glass
14:06:42 <jix> GregorR: ping!
14:08:28 <jix> missed 0-9
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18:47:11 <GregorR> No, there is no way to explicitly swap the two topmost elements, however, as you saw, you can raise the second.
18:47:37 <jix> a print stack debug call would be usefull
18:48:12 <GregorR> Here's a hint for writing Glass code: make every line a 0-stack-change element. The code is less efficient, but wildly more understandable.
18:48:41 <jix> i use indention to count stack items
18:48:51 <GregorR> Hmm, that's an interesting idea.
18:49:14 <GregorR> That actually makes a whole lot o' sense...
18:51:30 <jix> i'm working on a bf interpreter
18:51:44 <jix> i'm done with the tape class
18:52:26 <jix> is M.c__ called on startup?
18:54:49 <GregorR> M is funky in just about every way :P
18:55:21 <jix> i use OO! to avoid initializing O a few hundred times ;)
18:56:34 <GregorR> If you do that online I'll kill you.
18:57:36 <jix> does glassbot remember global vars?
18:57:56 <GregorR> But more importantly, it remembers classes, and you will have wiped out one ;)
18:58:21 <GregorR> It's fine to use global vars as instantiation of classes, but you shouldn't use /that/ one XD
18:58:33 <jix> hmm never thought that that wipes out the class
18:58:57 <jix> maybe you should fix glassbot to reset internals with every call
18:59:21 <GregorR> Yeah, I definitely should. I've considered it a few times, but haven't gotten off my lazy arse and done it ;)
18:59:34 <jix> G!{(TapeItem)[(c__)(hn)<1>=(hp)<1>=v<0>=t$][sv1=,][gv*][n(_t)(hn)*=/(_t)(nv)(TapeItem)!t*(nv)(sp).?(hn)<0>=(_t)<0>=\(nv)*][p(_t)(hp)*=/(_t)(pv)(TapeItem)!t*(pv)(sn).?(hp)<0>=(_t)<0>=\(pv)*][(sn)(nv)1=,(hn)<0>=][(sp)(pv)1=,(hp)<0>=]}
18:59:41 <jix> G!{(Tape)[(c__)t(TapeItem)!][nttn.?=][pttp.?=][gtg.?][sts.?]}
18:59:51 <jix> glassbot knows tape now
19:00:57 <jix> api: Tape.n => moves to next item Tape.p moves to previous item Tape.g get value Tape.s set value
19:01:26 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!(_d)(cl).?]}
19:01:29 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
19:02:00 <jix> G!{M[m~Debug.cl~]}
19:02:00 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
19:02:01 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
19:02:01 -!- GlassBot has quit ("Upgrades!").
19:02:13 <GregorR> lol, yes, you can cheat and use builtins like that ;)
19:02:26 <GregorR> But that's implementation-specific, not part of the spec.
19:02:45 <jix> but Debug is implementation specific too
19:03:10 -!- GlassBot has joined.
19:03:32 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_d)(Debug)!"A"<5>aM*(_d)s.?]}
19:04:21 <jix> G!{M[m"^PRIVMSG #esoteric test"~O.o~]}
19:05:01 <jix> G!{M[m~Debug.cl~]}
19:05:04 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
19:05:17 <jix> it still knows Tape?
19:05:24 <GregorR> Yeah, the cache is stored on disk.
19:05:45 <GregorR> The only way you could make it forget tape is G!{(Tape)}
19:06:06 <jix> are internals frozen know?
19:06:25 <jix> G!OO!"Test"Oo.?
19:06:37 <GregorR> That won't do much outside of a class XD
19:06:41 <jix> G!{M[mOO!"Test"Oo.?]}
19:06:56 <jix> mOO! << how cool
19:07:38 <GregorR> BTW, here's my "Array" (LLL) class:
19:10:09 <jix> is the new version with stack printing online?
19:12:13 <GregorR> I just found this link: http://abstractfactory.blogspot.com/2005/10/only-debate-on-intelligent-design-that.html
19:16:16 <GregorR> Grr, I'm having upload problems >_<
19:19:23 <GregorR> OK, glass-0.10.tar.bz2 is up.
19:19:36 <CXI> this looks interesting: http://firefoxit.mozdev.org/
19:24:37 <CXI> doesn't look like it's stable yet - probably worth waiting to see if it goes anywhere
19:25:25 <GregorR> Proof that my professor is an idiot: We're making a stupid e-library, and the search page has multiple fields ("title", "author", etc). By his specification, they are OR fields.
19:25:39 <GregorR> By professor I mean teacher, I don't think he's a professor :P
19:25:55 <GregorR> And somebody emailed the mailing list saying "This makes no sense, shouldn't this be AND?"
19:26:07 <GregorR> His response: "No, OR. That way, people can find more books."
19:26:20 <CXI> that's laughably stupid
19:26:35 <GregorR> Yes. Yes it is. But when you actually have to implement the thing it just hurts.
19:28:01 <CXI> this is neat...
19:28:11 <CXI> I've been trying to find a decent way of getting a hold of random interesting programs
19:28:40 <CXI> there are a bunch of developers with stuff that they just make 'cause it's cool and throw on some webspace somewhere, and it's really hard to find
19:30:54 <CXI> http://del.icio.us/tag/software+cool
19:30:59 <CXI> this has shown up some neat stuff
19:32:17 <CXI> never really played around with del.icio.us much before
19:32:31 <CXI> the whole "web 2.0" thing strikes me as ".com bubble 2.0"
19:35:38 -!- Keymaker has joined.
19:35:40 <GregorR> I agree, it's very nothing.
19:36:46 <Keymaker> i don't know what to use, is the sceql file extension "sq" or not!!
19:37:05 <Keymaker> graue's reply at esowiki isn't very clear
19:37:21 <Keymaker> "I don't know. Maybe .sq, unless that's already used for something else."
19:37:58 <kipple> just use .sql to avoid any confusion
19:40:40 <CXI> er, one thing about sql
19:40:53 <CXI> isn't that standard for plaintext sql query files?
19:45:32 <Keymaker> mmh.. the language name is sceql.. i'm sure there can be something better than 'sq'..
19:47:24 <Keymaker> by the way, does one print '\' in by printing "\\" or something?
19:48:21 <fizzie> I'd say that in C you print \, but to write a \ in a character/string literal you need \\.
19:49:53 <fizzie> No, "\\". But it's passed as the string containing a single \ to printf.
19:50:23 <GregorR> In Glass you make a number with the ASCII value then do S.ns :)
19:50:35 <fizzie> \ ought to be the *printf escape character in printf too, that way we'd get "\\\\" more often.
19:50:48 <kipple> hehe. of course .sql is the standard for SQL scripts. but why should you let that stop you?
19:51:41 <fizzie> What I don't like is the fact that .pl is the "standard" extension for both Perl and Prolog.
19:52:30 <kipple> well the number of possible extensions with max 3 chars, is pretty limited, so some overlap is bound to happen
19:52:47 <kipple> unless people can get over this aversion to extensions with more than 3 chars
19:52:59 <fizzie> Hey, .java is four characters. :p
19:53:18 <fizzie> ".jaa" or ".jav" or ".jva" would sound: really stupid.
19:53:53 <fizzie> Was that compiled into .cls files?
19:54:13 <kipple> I considered using .kipple as the extension for Kipple, but I was lazy and .k is much faster to type ;)
19:54:27 <kipple> fizzie: not sure. perhaps .cla?
19:54:27 <GregorR> I use .glass for Glass *shrugs*
19:55:10 <fizzie> I never know what to use for C++.
19:55:25 <kipple> is there an official extension for TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL ? :D
19:55:31 <fizzie> There's .C, .cc, .cpp, .c++, .cc and probably even more.
19:56:35 <fizzie> How did I manage not to see the first .cc. Strange.
19:56:37 <GregorR> I use .cc. .cpp comes from VS and is therefore evil, .c++ is nice but non-portable.
19:56:43 <kipple> LOL. finally someone who's done it properly (guess what the TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL extension is?)
19:57:20 <kipple> yes. except it's in uppercase
19:57:37 <fizzie> Oh. It looks more silly in lowercase, imho.
20:08:19 <jix> mac os x uses many .long_extensions
20:14:00 <Keymaker> anyone up for 99 bottles of cold beer?
20:14:02 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/other/beer.sceql
20:20:34 <jix> G!{M[m(_s)S!"test"(_s)si.?~Debug.s]}
20:20:57 <jix> G!{M[m(_s)S!"test"(_s)si.?~Debug.s~]}
20:21:31 <jix> G!{M[m(_s)S!"test"(_s)si.?~Debug.s~]}
20:21:52 <jix> G!{M[m<1><2><3>~Debug.s~]}
20:25:39 * GregorR is a bit confused as per what you're trying to do ...
20:25:56 <GregorR> (_s)si.? makes no sense ...
20:26:18 <jix> S.si: stack[-2][stack[-1]] = stack[0], pop, pop
20:26:26 <jix> yes makes no sense
20:26:39 <jix> G!{M[m(_s)S!"test"(_s)(si).?~Debug.s~]}
20:26:49 <jix> ok but makes no sense too
20:27:09 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!"Test"<1>"f"(_s)(si).?~Debug.s~]}
20:27:24 <jix> a remove first character of a string would be cool
20:27:40 <jix> or remove the first n characters of a string
20:27:53 <jix> or split the string at position n
20:28:10 <GregorR> Hmm, I think I'll make a split, that makes sense.
20:28:23 <GregorR> You could get the effect of cutting off the first with a split.
20:28:40 * GregorR tries to decide whether that breaks his minimalism concept.
20:28:50 <jix> that's why i used OR instead of AND
20:28:52 <GregorR> I'm trying to only make builtin classes have functions that you can't do otherwise ...
20:29:33 <jix> then why did you added mul and div and mod and le and ge...
20:30:10 <GregorR> mul/div: It uses floating point, you can't do FP muls and divs simply by repeating adds.
20:30:25 <GregorR> le, ge: Figured I should complete the set :P
20:30:39 <GregorR> OK, point taken, I'll add split.
20:31:23 <GregorR> I'm calling it d as in divide.
20:31:27 <jix> G!M{[m~I.c~~Debug.s~]}
20:31:42 <jix> G!{M[m~I.c~~Debug.s~]}
20:31:59 <GregorR> Input doesn't do anything on IRC :P
20:32:07 <jix> pushes I.c a string or a number?
20:32:34 -!- mtve has joined.
20:34:57 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
20:34:58 -!- GlassBot has quit ("Upgrades!").
20:35:40 -!- GlassBot has joined.
20:35:43 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!"Hello World!"<6>(_s)d.?~Debug.s~]}
20:36:28 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
20:36:34 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Upgrades!"(_o)o.?]}
20:36:35 -!- GlassBot has quit (Client Quit).
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20:37:26 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!"Hello World!"<6>(_s)d.?~Debug.s~]}
20:37:46 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!"Hello World!"<6>(_s)d.?(_s)a.?~Debug.s~]}
20:37:46 <jix> hey cool (the order i need for my code)
20:37:58 <GregorR> One sec while I package it up ...
20:39:03 <jix> i extended Tape with gp and sp (get and set position) for storing the tape position (as TapeItems ;) )
20:39:19 <GregorR> Feel free to update GlassBot's.
20:39:40 <GregorR> FYI, if it's too long to paste in IRC, you can do G!Uhttp://....some.URL.goes.here/etc
20:39:40 <jix> G!{(Tape)[(c__)t(TapeItem)!][nttn.?=][pttp.?=][gtg.?][sts.?][(gp)t*][(sp)t1=,]}
20:40:28 <GregorR> OK, glass-0.11.tar.bz2 is up
20:40:54 <GregorR> What do you think of Glass btw? :)
20:41:04 <jix> G? as an alias for G!{M[m...]} would be cool too
20:41:13 <jix> GregorR: excellent esolang!
20:42:18 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
20:42:20 <GlassBot> {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
20:43:11 <GlassBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
20:43:32 <GlassBot> (_a)2=(_b)1=,,/(_a)/(_b)<1>^\<0>^\<0>
20:44:13 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^JOIN #glassbot"(_o)o.?]}
20:44:34 * GregorR goes back to his Dvorak training.
20:44:48 <jix> i don't like dvorak
20:45:05 <jix> i'm fast enough with my de keyboard...
20:45:11 <jix> no need for dvorak
20:45:35 <GregorR> This is just what I do for my own perverse entertainment.
20:47:42 <GregorR> I'm also learning fitaly on my Tablet PC.
20:48:04 <jix> is that cool or is that cool: http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5760/bild90uf.png
20:49:18 * GregorR bows down before jix's 31337 colorization prowess.
20:49:48 <jix> with folding!
20:51:47 <jix> http://rafb.net/paste/results/QBo5Gp24.html here is the code for anyone who uses textmate
20:52:21 -!- calamari has joined.
20:52:48 <jix> moin calamari
20:52:49 <jix> G!{M[m"LameQuine"~Debug.fl~]}
20:53:17 <jix> G!{M[ml(LameQuine)!l.(lq).?]}
20:53:26 <jix> G!{M[ml(LameQuine)!l(lq).?]}
20:53:31 <GregorR> LameQuine.lq uses debug to output the M class :P
20:53:55 <GregorR> G!{M[m"LameQuine""lq"~Debug.fc~]}
20:53:56 <GlassBot> (_d)(Debug)!(_o)O!"{M[m"(_o)o.?"M""m"(_d)(fc).?"]}"(_o)o.?
20:54:08 <jix> G!{M[ml(LameQuine)!l(lq).?"\n"]}
20:54:23 <jix> lame quine is really lame ;)
20:54:54 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_t)$(_t)b.?][b(_l)(LameQuine)!(_l)(lq).?]}
20:57:37 -!- EsoBot has joined.
20:57:51 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
20:58:04 <jix> E!unnecessary
20:58:05 <EsoBot> Program executed perfectly right!
20:58:14 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `http://localhost/ls/dirs'.
20:58:44 <GregorR> E!unnecessary http://www.google.com/
20:58:46 <EsoBot> CRITICAL ERROR: The file exists!
20:59:13 <GregorR> E!unnecessary http://www.google.com/blerflnerfl
20:59:13 <jix> E!unnecessary http://www.google.com/blsdfsdf
20:59:14 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `'.
20:59:15 <EsoBot> Bad or inaccessible URL `'.
20:59:15 <EsoBot> Program executed perfectly right!
20:59:16 <EsoBot> Program executed perfectly right!
20:59:52 <calamari> looks like a small output bug there
21:02:30 <jix> E!kill calamari
21:02:31 <EsoBot> No such process `calamari'.
21:02:49 <GregorR> G!{(EE)[e(_o)O!"E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++."(_o)o.?]}
21:03:00 <GregorR> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:03:03 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:03:06 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:03:09 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:03:12 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:03:15 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^PART #esoteric"(_o)o.?]}
21:03:15 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:03:16 -!- GlassBot has left (?).
21:03:30 -!- GlassBot has joined.
21:03:53 <calamari> G!{(EE)[e(_o)O!"E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++."(_o)o.?]}
21:04:07 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:04:21 <calamari> G!{(EE)[e(_o)O!"E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++."(_o)o.?]}
21:04:24 <calamari> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:04:26 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:04:29 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:04:31 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++.>.>>++.<.++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.>++.
21:05:33 <jix> glass fireing false and eso and BOTH fire back glass => exponential!!!!!
21:05:49 -!- graue has joined.
21:05:53 <GregorR> G!{(EE)[e(_o)O!"E!bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>>-----.>+++.+.<+.>-.<<+++.>++++++.>>+.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--------..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.<<<++.>>------------."(_o)o.?]}
21:06:01 <GregorR> O good, graue gets to spectate on this disaster!
21:06:01 <calamari> but can glass output more than one line?
21:06:13 <graue> what's the disaster?
21:06:16 <jix> false can!
21:06:17 <GregorR> E!bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>>-----.>+++.+.<+.>-.<<+++.>++++++.>>+.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--------..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.<<<++.>>------------.
21:06:18 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[me(EE)!ee.?]}"
21:06:20 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>>-----.>+++.+.<+.>-.<<+++.>++++++.>>+.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--------..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.<<<++.>>------------.
21:06:21 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[me(EE)!ee.?]}"
21:06:23 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>>-----.>+++.+.<+.>-.<<+++.>++++++.>>+.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--------..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.<<<++.>>------------.
21:06:24 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[me(EE)!ee.?]}"
21:06:27 <GlassBot> E!bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>>-----.>+++.+.<+.>-.<<+++.>++++++.>>+.++++++++++++++++++.--------.<+++++++.<--------..>+.--------.>..<+++++++++++++.<------.>>--------.<<<++.>>------------.
21:06:28 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[me(EE)!ee.?]}"
21:06:39 <GregorR> Glass can in shell mode, but not in IRC mode.
21:07:25 <GregorR> Anybody who can actually write a true polyglot quine between the three deserves to flood the channel in an unstoppable way :P
21:07:38 <GregorR> They can enjoy that honor.
21:08:38 <graue> I read that as "They can enjoy that horror."
21:09:48 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++++>+++>+++++<<<<<-]>.>+++++.+.<+.>-.>---.<<++++++.++++++++++++++.>>--------------.--------.>--.>-..<+.<<.>..>+++++.>------.<<<<++.>>++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+.
21:09:49 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[me(EE)!ee.?]}"
21:10:00 <GregorR> Sorry calamari, I took out the Glass class :P
21:10:45 <calamari> I used textgen -t 5 I think it's a couple bytes shorter
21:10:56 <calamari> you're using textgen too, I assume?
21:11:05 <GregorR> But I just grab one of the first few, I don't wait XD
21:11:12 <GregorR> If it's short enough, it's good by me.
21:13:41 <calamari> wheee.. the 4 byte just pulled ahead again
21:14:31 <GregorR> What does that actually do?
21:14:48 <calamari> increases the number of memory cells used
21:15:10 <GregorR> And why does it think that this is good: +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<-]>.>--.-----------.+++++++.
21:15:29 <GregorR> BF! +++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<-]>.>--.-----------.+++++++.
21:15:38 <calamari> it uses the number of cells you tell it to use
21:16:05 <graue> we should have a Great Esoteric Programming Language Shootout
21:16:06 <CXI> writing a cms for no reason
21:16:25 <GregorR> Pfft, Glass would so win ;)
21:16:31 <graue> scoring criteria could include the "compression ratio" achieved by the shortest known 99 bottles of beer program
21:16:40 <CXI> see, I have a theory about that
21:16:40 <calamari> I'd love to see an algorithmic way to produce the shortest possible bf code for a particular text
21:16:53 <CXI> I'd love to make a program like bf but with higher level constructs
21:16:59 <CXI> er, s/program/langauge/
21:17:00 <calamari> E!bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++>++++++++>++>+++++>+++++++++<<<<<<-]>.>>>+++++.+.>+.<-.>>---.<++++++.++++++++++++++.<<---.--------.<--.<-..>+.>>.<..<+++++.<------.>>>>++.>++.<<+.
21:17:01 <EsoBot> F!"G!{M[me(EE)!ee.?]}"
21:17:08 <CXI> as in, one designed to give you the absolute shortest way to solve most problems
21:17:15 <CXI> (perl on steroids)
21:17:22 <graue> isn't perl already on steroids?
21:17:32 <CXI> not by comparison to what I want it to do
21:17:48 <CXI> imagine, if you will, a static dictionary file for word lookups as part of the standard library
21:17:58 <jix> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:17:59 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:00 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:00 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:02 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:02 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:04 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:04 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:06 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:06 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:07 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:08 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:10 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:10 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:12 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:12 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:14 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:15 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:15 <jix> GregorR: stop this!
21:18:16 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:17 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:18 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:19 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:20 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^PART #esoteric"(_o)o.?]}
21:18:21 <GlassBot> F!"G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}"
21:18:22 <falsebot> G!{M[m<70>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~<71>~S.ns~~O.o~<33>~S.ns~~O.o~<123>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~~O.o~<91>~S.ns~~O.o~<109>~S.ns~~O.o~<77>~S.ns~<109>~S.ns~~Debug.fc~<93>~S.ns~~O.o~<125>~S.ns~~O.o~<34>~S.ns~~O.o~]}
21:18:23 -!- GlassBot has left (?).
21:18:41 <GregorR> Using the debug class is cheating ;)
21:18:54 <jix> but it is unstopable without bot admins
21:19:27 -!- GlassBot has joined.
21:20:32 <calamari> or you can implement an interpreter in bf ;)
21:23:03 -!- graue has quit.
21:23:34 <GregorR> {M[mt$oO!aA!b" bottles of beer"=w"on the wall!\n"=c<99>=/cc*o(on).?b*oo.?w*oo.?c*o(on).?b*oo.?"!"oo.?"Take one down and pass it around\n"oo.?cc*<1>as.?=c*o(on).?b*oo.?w*oo.?\]}
21:23:50 <GregorR> G!{M[mt$oO!aA!b" bottles of beer"=w"on the wall!\n"=c<99>=/cc*o(on).?b*oo.?w*oo.?c*o(on).?b*oo.?"!"oo.?"Take one down and pass it around\n"oo.?cc*<1>as.?=c*o(on).?b*oo.?w*oo.?\]}
21:23:51 <GlassBot> 99 bottles of beeron the wall! 99 bottles of beer!Take one down and pass it around 98 bottles of beeron the wall! 98 bottles of beeron the wall! 98 bottles of beer!Take one down and pass it around 97 bottles of beeron the wall! 97 bottles of beeron the wall! 97 bottles of beer!Take one down and pass it around 96 bottles of beeron the wall! 96 bottles of beeron the wall! 96 bottles of beer!T Flood!
21:23:59 <GregorR> G!{M[mt$oO!aA!b" bottles of beer"=w" on the wall!\n"=c<99>=/cc*o(on).?b*oo.?w*oo.?c*o(on).?b*oo.?"!"oo.?"Take one down and pass it around\n"oo.?cc*<1>as.?=c*o(on).?b*oo.?w*oo.?\]}
21:24:00 <GlassBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall! 99 bottles of beer!Take one down and pass it around 98 bottles of beer on the wall! 98 bottles of beer on the wall! 98 bottles of beer!Take one down and pass it around 97 bottles of beer on the wall! 97 bottles of beer on the wall! 97 bottles of beer!Take one down and pass it around 96 bottles of beer on the wall! 96 bottles of beer on the wall! 96 bottles of Flood!
21:25:04 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b helloum.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b
21:25:18 <jix> E!bf LostKng.b
21:25:35 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/LostKng.b
21:25:39 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
21:25:40 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
21:25:43 <EsoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
21:25:44 <EsoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
21:25:46 <EsoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
21:26:10 <EsoBot> You are standing inside your ramshackle wooden hut. The squalor here has
21:26:11 <EsoBot> replaced the comfort and grandeur of your former royal palace. In one corner
21:26:12 <EsoBot> near the north door leading to your garden lies the pile of straw you use as
21:26:13 <EsoBot> a bed. Fixed in place by an unknown magic, next to a small table, is a wooden
21:26:14 <EsoBot> mockery of your former throne. The main door to the east leads outside to a
21:26:24 <EsoBot> a small wooden box of matches sitting on the table (2)
21:26:36 <calamari> haha yes yes will start the game over
21:26:42 <EsoBot> You scored 0 points out of a possible 100.
21:26:43 <EsoBot> You have earned the rank of Amateur.
21:26:51 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
21:26:55 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
21:27:25 <calamari> jix: feel free to run that via private message :)
21:28:03 <calamari> I should probably have the pids start over at 1 rather than incrementing unix style
21:32:34 -!- graue has joined.
21:33:54 <calamari> what would you think about removing "input" and just using a number and the text
21:34:14 * jix is going to create a esolang output/code size shootout page
21:34:19 <GregorR> How about PM's just counting as input :P
21:34:29 <calamari> how does it know which process tho
21:34:42 <GregorR> Well, it knows the user who started a proc, if they only have one, that's the one :P
21:34:47 <calamari> I could have it not require E!
21:35:43 <GregorR> Whatever works for you *shrugs*
21:35:45 <calamari> I think it'd be confusing if it sometimes required the pid and sometimes did not
21:36:03 <calamari> I could limit it to one process per nick
21:37:08 <EsoBot> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2 Final//EN">
21:37:10 <EsoBot> <title>Index of /ls</title>
21:37:14 <EsoBot> <pre><img src="/icons/blank.gif" alt="Icon "> <a href="?C=N;O=D">Name</a> <a href="?C=M;O=A">Last modified</a> <a href="?C=S;O=A">Size</a> <a href="?C=D;O=A">Description</a><hr><img src="/icons/back.gif" alt="[DIR]"> <a href="/">Parent Directory</a> [...]
21:37:16 <EsoBot> <img src="/icons/unknown.gif" alt="[ ]"> <a href="bf">bf</a> 22-Oct-2005 15:25 64
21:37:19 <EsoBot> <img src="/icons/unknown.gif" alt="[ ]"> <a href="dirs">dirs</a> 22-Oct-2005 15:03 4
21:37:24 <EsoBot> <address>Apache/2.0.54 (Ubuntu) mod_jk2/2.0.4 Server at localhost Port 80</address>
21:38:00 <marcan> you could have it work without E! in PM
21:38:09 <marcan> stuff like input 1 blah
21:38:13 <marcan> or better yet, abbreviate
21:38:25 <marcan> better yet, make that in -1 blah
21:38:33 <marcan> if you don't type the PID, it goes to the last one
21:38:56 <marcan> in blah would go to the last PID
21:39:03 <marcan> the - is to differentiate it from numerical input
21:39:42 <marcan> of course, but less common
21:39:52 <marcan> just come up with something unusual
21:40:11 * marcan switches to a UTF-8 console
21:40:42 <marcan> I just see a video inverted X
21:40:43 <GregorR> That's unusual all right! :P
21:40:48 <marcan> I guess my font settings are uncool
21:40:56 <jix> marcan: ack
21:41:41 <jix> that's a bio hazzard sign
21:41:44 <marcan> (but you can't see that because it isn't utf-8)
21:41:51 <lament> F![$19>[$10/$9=["ninety"]?$8=["eighty"]?$7=["seventy"]?$6=["sixty"]?$5=["fifty"]?$4=["forty"]?$3=["thirty"]?$2=["twenty"]?10*-$0=~["-"]?]?$19=["nineteen"]?$18=["eighteen"]?$17=["seventeen"]?$16=["sixteen"]?$15=["fifteen"]?$14=["fourteen"]?$13=["thirteen"]?$12=["twelve"]?$11=["eleven"]?$10=["ten"]?$9=["nine"]?$8=["eight"]?$7=["seven"]?$6=["six"]?$5=["five"]?$4=["four"]?$3=["three"]?$2=["two"]?$1=["one"]?0=["no"]?]n:
21:41:53 <marcan> I mean, lowercase y+diaeresis, not uppercase
21:42:31 <lament> it works only from 0 to 99
21:42:33 <lament> so as to fit a certain song
21:43:17 <lament> the -nine part is correct. The number does end in "-nine" :)
21:43:23 <GregorR> jix: BTW, you mentioned a page about most-output least-input? But that doesn't make any sense, I mean, what about ++++++++++[.]
21:43:46 <calamari> hehe, don't run that in esobot :P
21:44:10 <marcan> does IRC take blank lines?
21:44:24 <calamari> if they are articially padded with spaces, yep
21:44:28 <GregorR> G!{M[moO!b<1>="a"/b0oo.?\]}
21:44:36 <marcan> yeah, with spaces it does
21:44:41 <marcan> but does esobot add spaces?
21:45:37 <falsebot> Error: Argument to > is not a number
21:45:52 <jix> GregorR: there are challanges like 99bob etc.. the output is vorgeschrieben(/me is looking that word up)
21:46:27 <jix> the output has to be what the challenge says
21:48:51 <GregorR> The winning entry would be in HQ9+ :P
21:49:24 <jix> you can filter for computational class
21:49:32 <graue> I bet HQ9+ gets a low score on the prime factoring challenge
21:49:37 <graue> there will be one, right, jix?
21:50:05 <jix> graue: users can submit challenges
21:50:35 <jix> GregorR: what about the 99bob unnecessary dialect?
21:50:41 <jix> unbeatable
21:51:12 <graue> calamari: how about randomizing the pids, OpenBSD style?
21:51:39 <jix> how about using large meresenne primes as pids?
21:52:07 <GregorR> How about using a progressively increasing number of digits of pi as pids?
21:52:44 <jix> how about factorizing rsa-2024 und using the factors as pids?
21:53:49 <GregorR> How about using BF programs to output the "real" PID as the pids :P
21:55:22 <graue> I wrote a game that uses fork() as a random number generator
21:55:32 <graue> it hits a resource limit after a little while, but it works
21:57:50 <calamari> how about you guys get busy porting interpreters to Java ;) hehehe
21:57:51 <GregorR> Probably doesn't work very well on non-OpenBSD systems :P
21:58:02 <GregorR> I don't speak Java or Sanskrit.
21:58:24 <calamari> There is a rosetta stone at your local community college
21:58:29 <GregorR> I don't know Java or Ancient Egyptian.
21:58:43 <GregorR> Because then the lie is complete :P
21:59:00 <graue> calamari: I much prefer the proposal by GregorR and kipple that a bot call plain old interpreters and read their output
21:59:37 <GregorR> Because then interpreters can be written in any language, even Java.
22:00:14 <graue> if you know how to call system(), you can implement anything you can type at the shell...
22:00:19 <calamari> and can it run interactive programs?
22:00:49 <marcan> I'd code more in java, but I have a few rants about it. Like it doesn't support operator overloading :P
22:00:51 <GregorR> I can write it if I get off my ass.
22:01:35 <calamari> it sounds fine.. having a process list or something equivalent would be nice.. also the ability to run programs from webpages
22:02:01 <graue> you would want to create a new user to run all this stuff as, and set resource limits for that user, of course
22:02:07 <calamari> and rather than terminating a program with a long line, perhaps just trim the output to 33 chars.. that's what I'm doing
22:02:27 <marcan> no more than X lines / sec
22:02:51 <graue> in other words, buffer output
22:02:54 <calamari> marcan: well, that can be handled automatically.. I only print a line every so often
22:03:54 <GregorR> Again, the "get off my lazy ass" problem.
22:04:08 <calamari> can it handle using up all the memory .. i.e. +[>+]
22:04:20 <GregorR> That's interpreter depedent.
22:04:23 <calamari> or I suppose that is up to the app
22:04:42 <calamari> I dunno.. I see my system as in place and working :)
22:04:53 <lament> for an example of such a setup
22:04:55 <graue> why doesn't it support Kipple? that already has a Java interpreter
22:05:07 <lament> there's a Mathematica interpreter in #math
22:05:10 <calamari> who said it doesn't support them
22:05:16 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
22:05:17 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
22:05:23 <EsoBot> Invalid command `kipple'.
22:05:28 <calamari> it hasn't implemented, but they should be supported
22:06:26 * graue begins adding support to the Sceql interpreter for reading programs from stdin
22:06:46 <GregorR> Am I being peer pressured? :P
22:06:57 <calamari> lol, you guys will go to any length to avoid a few lines of Java..
22:07:24 <lament> java does suck quite a bit :)
22:08:30 <calamari> it is easy to program in.. that's my definition of good :)
22:08:48 <GregorR> Visual Basic is easy to program in.
22:08:57 <GregorR> Are you telling me that Visual Basic is good?
22:09:13 <calamari> you can get stuff done with it
22:09:14 <lament> GregorR: it would be, if it really were easy to program in.
22:09:15 <cpressey> http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/index.html#J
22:09:20 <graue> but Visual Basic is not easy to program in
22:11:20 <lament> not in my humble experience, anyhow.
22:11:26 <calamari> I've written a few VB programs.. it seemed easy enough for what I was doing
22:12:36 <graue> ever tried doing binary file I/O with it?
22:12:53 <graue> that's not what I would call easy
22:13:11 <calamari> I used it to fix AVI's where the a/v weren't in sync
22:13:38 <calamari> I don't remember the i/o being a problem
22:14:04 <marcan> it's a PITA the times I've done it
22:14:22 <GregorR> NULLs are almost IMPOSSIBLE.
22:14:29 <GregorR> I have no idea why I capped that.
22:14:38 <marcan> The thing I don't like about java is it's nonacceptance of features that are deemed "unclean" or whatever
22:14:43 <marcan> Which is why I like python
22:14:44 <lament> GregorR: cause you are hysterical.
22:14:55 <calamari> GregorR: I thought you were away writing the next generation esoteric bot ;)
22:15:00 <lament> the thing i don't like about java is that very basic tasks are extremely verbose.
22:15:07 <lament> Which is why i like Python.
22:15:48 <marcan> one of the most ironic things of java is that is doesn't like operator overloading, but builds it in on the String class
22:15:52 <calamari> python is difficult to program in due to the dumb indentation thing
22:15:57 <marcan> that I consider worse than allowing it for all classes :P
22:16:04 <marcan> I like the indentation
22:16:17 <lament> calamari: obviously you never actually tried :)
22:16:19 <marcan> removes unneccesary braces
22:16:22 <calamari> marcan: makes it difficult to comment things out, in practice
22:16:32 <marcan> use an editor with a comment-out function :)
22:16:34 <lament> calamari: not when you use A Text Editor
22:16:35 <calamari> lament: obviously not, as I program in it for my job
22:16:35 <graue> makes it easy to see where things start and stop
22:16:38 <marcan> or just surround everything in """
22:16:44 <GregorR> What should EgoBot's trigger be?
22:17:03 <lament> i wish i had a job like that!
22:17:22 <calamari> if it will replace all bots, one char is enough
22:17:37 <marcan> you see, now I want to write my own bot too :P
22:17:40 <lament> only if it actually does replace all the bots :)
22:18:00 <calamari> lament: you also used EsoBot first.. sorry bout that ;)
22:18:56 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
22:19:46 -!- EsoBot has joined.
22:20:08 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/factor.b
22:20:38 <graue> E!bf http://localhost/bf/factor.b
22:20:50 <EsoBot> 2832921: 3 3 3 7 13 1153
22:21:54 <graue> E!bf http://localhost/bf/factor.b
22:22:54 <calamari> testing the private message thing.. doesn't require E!
22:23:09 <graue> is it still trying to factor 2812097?
22:23:14 <calamari> didn't implement the whole single process per user thing tho
22:23:52 <calamari> what do you expect from bf, blinding speed?
22:24:21 <graue> it factors it in 0m0.003s using gbf2c and gcc :)
22:24:51 <calamari> and I suppose you'll be using that for your bot?
22:24:55 <graue> 7.33s using pbfi, my C interpreter with no optimizations
22:25:24 <calamari> I invite you to write a better bot.. until then, dude just shut up okay?
22:26:02 <graue> am I not allowed to compare speeds of bf implementations in here?
22:26:10 <graue> I was surprised by the long time it took, that's all
22:26:45 <graue> what happened to that speed comparison page someone was making?
22:27:15 <jix> i stopped making it because my test computer is broken
22:27:44 <jix> latest results: http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/brainfuck/result2.txt
22:27:48 <graue> maybe you could include speeds in the esoteric language shootout?
22:27:52 <jix> egobfi improved a lot after that
22:28:20 <jix> graue: i'd need a test machine
22:28:44 <jix> or is the system time independent from cpu usage?
22:29:43 <graue> jix: when I do "time <some command>" here it prints out a "real", "user", and "system" time, and I don't think "user" is affected by other tasks running on the CPU
22:47:45 <GregorR> Stupid processor overheating is spewing messages into my console.
22:49:49 <lament> i read that as stupid professor overheating.
22:51:01 <graue> why is your processor overheating?
22:52:01 <graue> is this usual and expected behavior?
22:52:26 <jix> killed "my" laptop
22:52:48 <GregorR> The Pentium 5 is based on the Pentium M, not the Pentium 4 :P
22:52:58 <GregorR> So overheating will be less of an issue.
22:53:08 <graue> I've heard those processors from that VIA company are really cool (literally)
22:53:42 <graue> maybe you could use one of those until the Pentium 5 is available
22:59:13 <GregorR> Until my computer bursts into flames, I'm fine with the P4 :P
23:00:48 <calamari> I should get a new mb.. this one has a noisy fan.. and I had to modify the heatsink to get it to fit around capacitors so I don't feel like messing around to get a quieter one
23:02:32 -!- Sgep has joined.
23:04:21 <calamari> ahh cool, the bot compiled with gcj.. trying it :)
23:04:35 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
23:05:20 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:05:36 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
23:05:44 <graue> does digitalr.b (in the esoteric files archive) work for everyone else?
23:06:05 -!- EsoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:06:16 <calamari> was trying to take down my system
23:06:28 <GregorR> OK, what BF interpreter should I use?
23:07:27 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:07:44 <calamari> E!bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
23:07:56 <EsoBot> Killed 1: Out of memory.
23:08:16 <calamari> yay.. that's the way to do it.. kill it and don't freeze up my system :)
23:11:36 * jix complied the gnu time because it is > than the osx time
23:11:42 <calamari> speaking of that.. I need to figure out what happened to Kstars
23:14:21 <graue> wow, afbi is buggy
23:15:00 <graue> I ran rot13.b, typed "SHPX LBH<Enter>", it did nothing so I pressed ^D, afbi grew until it was using about 500 MB of memory, then segfaulted
23:15:25 <graue> jix: I guess afbi was "unfinished"?
23:15:49 <calamari> E!bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/rot13.b
23:16:39 <jix> graue: afbi?
23:16:45 <jix> ah afbi...
23:17:17 <graue> why does EsoBot print a newline after each letter there?
23:17:58 <calamari> I guess that's what the program does?
23:18:21 <jix> afbi is somewhat buggy as all my c programs except cipple which seems to run fine and fast
23:18:25 <graue> the program doesn't do that for me under pbfi, qdb, or yabfi2
23:18:50 <jix> graue: if you want really fast bf execution use bf2a
23:19:12 <EsoBot> bfi.b bottles.b factor.b helloum.b LostKng.b prime.b triangle.b
23:19:41 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/bfi.b
23:20:30 <calamari> looking at the source, he is doing an input in the final loop.. my interpreter flushes output on input
23:20:54 <calamari> that way programs will be able to print a prompt without a cr first
23:21:37 <jix> calamari: i'd flush only if there is no input byte in queue
23:22:12 <calamari> this is before it does the input
23:22:21 <calamari> so there is no input in the queue
23:22:53 <calamari> I'm probably misunderstanding you
23:23:55 <EsoBot> 1:calamari, 2:calamari
23:23:57 <graue> jix: bf2a beats gbf2c by 0.03 ms on mandelbrot
23:24:47 <calamari> E!2 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.!
23:25:01 <jix> graue:where do i find gbf2c?
23:26:37 <jix> bf2a does more optimizations than gbf2c
23:26:41 <graue> jix: www.esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/impl
23:26:44 <jix> and it's faster here
23:27:00 <graue> jix: bf2a version 0.2?
23:28:12 <jix> i'm retesting
23:28:16 <graue> jix: bf2a's compiled version of factor.b fails to compile in gcc here
23:28:27 <graue> syntax error on line 14
23:28:45 <graue> I don't think "lut_-1" is a legal identifier in C
23:29:10 -!- EsoBot has quit ("requested by calamari").
23:29:13 <jix> need to debug that
23:29:53 <calamari> jix: I understood what you were saying now.. let's see how it does :)
23:30:01 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:30:11 <calamari> E!bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/rot13.b
23:30:44 <graue> jix: also, once I fix the syntax error in factor.c (renaming lut_-1 to something else), factor.b is faster when compiled by gbf2c than when compiled by bf2a
23:31:02 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/LostKng.b
23:31:04 <jix> graue: factor is misscompiled if there is a lut_-1
23:31:06 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
23:31:07 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
23:31:07 <graue> jix: 0.14s for the bf2a version, 0.03s for the gbf2c version
23:31:09 <EsoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
23:31:10 <EsoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
23:31:12 <EsoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
23:31:27 <jix> graue: AND .. i use expanding memory... gbf2c not
23:31:29 <graue> jix: yeah, I just noticed it prints the wrong answer too :)
23:31:37 <EsoBot> You are in a small hut by a dirt road.
23:31:43 <graue> jix: but this isn't using 32768 cells
23:31:59 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:32:08 <jix> graue: but i have to check every > for an overflow
23:32:17 <GregorR> !bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
23:32:42 <GregorR> So that'll go for a while ;)
23:32:43 <graue> 2812097 is prime according to the bf2a version of factor.b
23:32:52 <calamari> !bf +[>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+]
23:32:58 <graue> in fact, so is every number it looks like
23:33:31 <GregorR> I killed your first proc manually btw :P
23:33:37 <jix> graue: but it tries to use my complex lookup tables so if i fix it it should be faster
23:33:43 <calamari> how is the memory task doing ?
23:33:48 <graue> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.]
23:33:49 <GregorR> I don't know why it didn't respond to that !ps ...
23:34:06 <GregorR> I am so glad you didn't put a newline in that ...
23:34:19 <GregorR> However, it seems to be entirely unresponsive now, so who cares!
23:34:23 <graue> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++++++++++<[.>.<]
23:34:44 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:35:30 <jix> bf2a: user 0m5.128s
23:36:10 <jix> user 0m5.340s
23:38:09 <graue> what program is this for?
23:38:17 <jix> mandelbrot
23:38:21 <jix> bf2a and gbf2c
23:38:48 <GregorR> Anybody care to compare egobfc2m to those?
23:38:49 <graue> over here, the two versions took a little over 10 seconds and bf2a's version was 0.03ms faster
23:42:17 <graue> egobfc2m crashes immediately on running mandelbrot.b
23:43:16 <jix> graue: line198: when 1 => when -1
23:43:26 <graue> I don't think OpenBSD likes it when programs generate code and call it at runtime
23:43:56 <jix> some cpus dislike that (caching..)
23:43:58 * graue tests factor.b with bf2a again
23:44:23 <graue> egobfc2m worked fine on windows here
23:44:40 <graue> I am pretty sure that OpenBSD won't allow it to do what it does for security reasons
23:45:24 <jix> factor.b: 2165843199767 bf2a:0m0.902s gbf2c:0m2.070s
23:45:55 <jix> thats a factor of 2!
23:46:35 <graue> 3.28s vs 1.56s here
23:46:45 <graue> (for the same number)
23:46:46 <jix> which is mine?
23:46:51 <graue> the 1.56s of course
23:47:17 <jix> what machine are you using?
23:47:54 <graue> but that's not really an accurate measure of CPU speed of course
23:48:01 <jix> and slower than on my ppc g4 1000mhz ?
23:48:16 <graue> I didn't have any gcc optimizations on
23:48:34 <graue> unless it optimizes by default, does it?
23:48:43 <jix> default is O2 i think
23:48:43 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:49:08 <GregorR> !bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
23:51:25 <graue> -O0 appears to be the default
23:51:54 <GregorR> Yeah, ps takes a proc in EgoBot.
23:52:37 <graue> jix: factor-gbf2c: 3.32s, factor-bf2a: 1.56s, factor-gbf2c-o2: 1.38s, factor-bf2a-o2: 0.42s, factor-gbf2c-o3: 1.39s, factor-bf2a-o3: 0.40s
23:52:43 <calamari> !bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/hello.b
23:53:31 <graue> !bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++++++++++<[.>.<]
23:53:31 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
23:53:39 <graue> no flood protection yet? :)
23:55:17 <graue> calamari: I imagine your thing didn't work because IRC doesn't allow blank lines
23:55:45 <calamari> graue: yeah, I was testing to see how it handled that
23:55:58 <calamari> I add a space to blank lines so they are displayed
00:09:25 <calamari> GregorR: not sure what the flood limit is, but I was limiting to one line per second
00:10:17 <GregorR> That's what I'm doing now.
00:11:25 * jix is working on tues -- The Ultimate Esolang Shootout
00:11:35 <calamari> E!bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/isbn.b
00:14:31 -!- EsoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
00:14:58 <GregorR> I can't tell whether EgoBot is lagged or broken :P
00:16:56 -!- EsoBot has joined.
00:18:17 <calamari> the server may only allow a certain number of lines per minute or something
00:19:44 <GregorR> Time for school, I'll continue debugging EgoBot later >_O
00:22:18 <calamari> fib.b must run pretty fast on those optimized bf's
00:26:29 <jix> a little overview over the informations stored at tues http://rafb.net/paste/results/gaNONX70.html
00:28:39 <graue> calamari: the Excess Flood thing is essentially unpredictable, and has no set maximum rate
00:28:48 <graue> it just means the server can't keep up with the text you're sending it
00:29:29 <jix> the server seems to be very busy... (high who replay lag)
00:29:47 <jix> better now
00:29:54 <calamari> 5611500259351924431073312796924978741056961814867751431689
00:31:07 <calamari> 2464593359921179141398048006246675396881836888835835456250887805
00:31:44 <calamari> jix: where can I get your bf interp?
00:32:07 <graue> bf2a is at www.esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/impl
00:32:17 <graue> as is gbf2c, also found there
00:32:32 <calamari> what is the fastest interpreter.. egobfi?
00:33:01 <graue> egobfc2m, if it works
00:33:21 <jix> calamari: you need to fix bf2a.rb
00:33:26 <graue> (which compiles to machine code and then runs it)
00:33:46 <graue> bff is also supposed to be a very fast interpreter, but it always crashed for me
00:33:56 <jix> line198: when 1 => when -1
00:33:57 <graue> or just produced garbage results
00:34:10 <graue> jix: shall I fix that and add the fixed version to the archive as 0.2.1?
00:37:21 <calamari> oh yeah, that's fast... hahaha
00:38:05 <calamari> 607896069425034063580366462608235237581059737399738861224581076126662826799793709245429776932727614364579669880576578600810517298037103832426801606829301109026305310604079738491640601706410031902795841992532420813895767045712843580381126164073355104571159779240617846379610851841800
00:38:24 <calamari> I guess that stands for 16 bit cells
00:39:15 <graue> bf2a + gcc -O3 is undoubtedly the fastest possible
00:39:57 <calamari> I wouldn't say fastest possible
00:41:28 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
00:41:43 <GregorR-L> Well, I'm separated from EgoBot now, and this class is dumb.
00:42:25 <GregorR-L> It feels like remedial physics for morons.
00:42:53 <GregorR-L> Oh, we haven't gotten that far, we're doing arithmetic.
00:43:12 <GregorR-L> This class is called "Physics with Calculus" by the way.
00:43:54 <GregorR-L> I think I know how I borked EgoBot, so I can fix it :P
00:44:31 <GregorR-L> Now I'm taking recommendations for good interpreters.
00:44:45 <GregorR-L> I'll use EgoBF, EgoBch and Glass at least.
00:46:37 <calamari> whats a good befunge interpreter
00:46:53 <kipple> does egobot use any interpreter? I.e. like we talked about yesterday?
00:47:12 <GregorR-L> It's slightly broken right now, but generally working ;)
00:47:24 <GregorR-L> And I can't access it from this idiot class.
00:48:26 <calamari> GregorR: btw.. the next program I was going to run was \rQUIT :a\r\n
00:48:41 <GregorR-L> calamari: Wouldn't have worked, it's smarter than that ;)
00:48:45 <GregorR-L> kipple: My bitchanger interpreter.
00:49:32 <GregorR-L> And by the way, EgoBch is pronounced "EGO, BITCH!!!"
00:49:32 <calamari> GregorR: not sure if you saw before you left, but 1.5s seemed to be safe
00:49:50 <kipple> does it read source files from URLs too, like esobot?
00:50:04 <GregorR-L> It will soon enough, just need to integrate wget :P
00:50:30 <calamari> mmm wget.. so I can use your connection to order things from secure sites
00:50:52 <kipple> ok. Then you should add ORK. (don't think we'd want people to paste ORK programs directly)
00:50:56 <GregorR-L> It will only accept http://, not accept ?, and pass the whole thing as one line.
00:51:10 <calamari> much safer that way I think :)
00:51:55 <GregorR-L> kipple: ORK would be tough as it has no interpreter.
00:52:09 <kipple> ah, that's right. only a compiler
00:52:39 <kipple> well, it's still just a matter of a couple of shell commands
00:52:45 <calamari> what language interpreters are you willing to run
00:52:51 <jix> any comments to my tues search layout/result thing?
00:53:10 <calamari> ahh sorry I mean like java python, etc
00:53:29 <GregorR-L> I have java, python, perl, PHPCLI, ruby ...
00:53:42 <calamari> we can probably make a list of interpreters off the wiki
00:54:16 <jix> anyone tried to pronounce axo the way it should be pronounced
00:54:39 <jix> someone on the wiki asked how to pronounce the german words "ach so" but i have no microphone...
00:55:04 <GregorR-L> "a" as in "car", "ch" as in "Bach"
00:55:32 <jix> but it's not Ach!!! So.. but more achso
00:56:25 <jix> axo is a abbrev for ach so (because chs is often pronounced as x..) and i was replying to someone with axo but accidentally typed into my text editor...
00:58:07 <GregorR-L> BF, Bitchanger, Glass, Kipple, Axo, ...?
00:58:28 <kipple> but which Kipple interpterer??
00:58:57 <calamari> I've written a few, but they all require microsoft quickbasic to run .. hehe
00:59:28 <kipple> probably a good choice. it's twice as fast as mine :)
01:00:40 <calamari> and befunge if that wasn't on your list
01:00:42 <kipple> is there an interpreter for INTERCAL? I only have compiler
01:00:48 <GregorR-L> calamari: I need a good interpreter first.
01:02:25 <kipple> I use Chris's befunge 93 interpreter
01:03:02 <kipple> it doesn't handle befunge 98
01:03:11 <calamari> no objections.. 93 is the standard
01:03:29 <GregorR-L> Well, we could do !funge93 and !funge98
01:03:36 <kipple> http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/bef/src/
01:04:45 <calamari> GregorR: ho do you intergrate these? If it's a config file you could add new ones as you go, then send a signal to reload the config file
01:05:19 <calamari> would be better than my method of hardcoding them in the source
01:05:20 <jix> funge 98 has file access!!
01:05:21 <GregorR-L> ATM they're somewhat compiled in, but that's a better idea :P
01:05:52 <jix> and if one wants tc and fungeness one could use axo
01:06:14 <jix> GregorR-L: oh and do not use axo2i
01:06:16 <kipple> how baout whitespace :)
01:06:27 <jix> axo2i is buggy and likes to crash
01:06:41 <jix> i'm nearly done with axopp a c++ axo interpreter
01:06:52 <jix> but i still need this stupid read a number + newline from input
01:07:06 <calamari> wierd inspired me to write numberix
01:07:18 <GregorR-L> kipple: Hmm, it may be possible with wget ...
01:08:39 <calamari> factoring 607896069425034063580366462608235237581059737399738861224581076126662826799793709245429776932727614364579669880576578600810517298037103832426801606829301109026305310604079738491640601706410031902795841992532420813895767045712843580381126164073355104571159779240617846379610851841800 with bf is taking a while
01:09:00 <GregorR-L> Use egobfc2m, it'll go lightning ... slightly faseter ;)
01:09:22 <kipple> calamari: longer than it took to write the factoring program?
01:09:53 <jix> calamari: it takes a long time using a native fast algorithm
01:10:10 <calamari> jix: that number would take forever to factor with anything, I'd imagine :)
01:11:28 <graue> GregorR-L: why use wget? curl is much simpler and not (as) full of security holes
01:11:41 <GregorR-L> Because I type wget automatically :P
01:15:31 <kipple> probably the most complete Chef interpreter: http://search.cpan.org/~smueller/Acme-Chef/
01:17:38 <GregorR-L> But it's in ... /that/ language :P
01:18:13 <kipple> someone here was talking about writing a new one, but I don't remember who
01:18:46 <GregorR-L> Must ... stay ... awake ....... class .... so ... stupid .......
01:20:38 <calamari> my physics classes were quite challenging..
01:21:17 <calamari> too bad youre stuck in a crappy one
01:22:01 <calamari> has both categories of implemented and unimplemented :)
01:25:33 <calamari> 2iota has an interpreter http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/2iota/src/
01:28:06 <calamari> 3code: http://www.bigzaphod.org/3code/kang-3code.py
01:28:58 <GregorR-L> Do I detect alphabetical ordering in calamari's suggestions? :P
01:29:39 <calamari> I skipped 2L, for obvious reasons ;)
01:29:57 <GregorR-L> Yeah, every language written by the person who wrote that language is terrible.
01:30:10 <calamari> either that or they already have source
01:30:41 * GregorR-L isn't sure how to parse that sentence.
01:30:54 <GregorR-L> Wouldn't them already having source be a good thing?
01:32:22 <calamari> ADJUST: http://www.esolangs.org/files/adjust/impl/
01:33:05 <calamari> I haven't even tried a fraction of these languages
01:34:01 <jix> calamari: btw: 2^3*5^2*11*17*19*31*53*61*101*109*151*181*271*541*811*3001*4051*5779*12301*18451*42391*43201*109441*119611*140401*221401*394201*5020651*15608701*230686501*3467131047901*6641555895901*1114769954367361*1361918785737982855951*11981661982050957053616001*10237949952357183751384463924412751*656996318953349439721732908912325829378630572990405083901
01:34:04 <jix> factored it
01:34:11 <jix> Factorization complete in 0d 0h 0m 35s
01:34:15 <jix> http://www.alpertron.com.ar/ECM.HTM
01:34:25 <kipple> that was not using bf I assume...
01:34:36 <calamari> wow.. I got to 61.. surprised 101 was taking so long
01:35:28 -!- marcan has quit (Connection timed out).
01:35:28 <calamari> jix: that number was just a fibo #
01:36:32 <calamari> Aheui: http://dev.tokigun.net/esolang/aheui/aheui.py
01:37:39 -!- marcan has joined.
01:37:39 <calamari> GregorR: I'm saving these in a file, so I think I'll stop reporting them
01:37:40 <graue> most of my languages (Archway2, ADJUST, Qdeql, 1L-a, Sortle) have not been used for much, so the interpreters have not been well tested
01:38:00 <graue> by the way, tell me if any files are missing from the esoteric file archive that should be in it
01:38:55 <graue> it would be cool if someone tried to write something in 1L-a
01:39:04 <graue> possibly using a program in a higher-level language to assist
01:39:26 <graue> the only 1L-a program known to me is the one I made that prints the character A
01:39:31 <graue> it took several hours to write
01:40:41 <calamari> how many hours does it take to run?
01:41:39 <graue> calamari, it runs almost instantly
01:41:41 <kipple> you should post a link to that program on the wiki
01:41:55 <graue> it's just that I get confused easily by things like that... I was never a great esoteric programmer, you know
01:42:26 <kipple> anyway, I see that 1L is categorized as both implemented AND unimplemented...
01:42:42 <graue> 1L-a is implemented
01:42:51 <graue> Gregor's proposed Black Box version isn't (or even fully fleshed out)
01:43:33 <graue> I suppose people looking in Category:Implemented want a language to play with, and people looking in Category:Unimplemented want to find something they can write an interpreter for
01:43:39 <graue> so it makes sense to have it in both categories
01:48:52 <graue> oh, by the way, a 1L-a or 2L interpreter doesn't need to know EOL (or EOF)
01:49:15 <graue> the spec to each of those languages says that going off the left or top of the source area ends the program, but going off the bottom or right results in undefined behavior
01:51:52 <graue> I never made a 1L program that tests its flow control
01:52:04 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
01:52:22 <graue> wait, actually I guess I sort of did
01:52:59 <graue> a.1l turns left once when it could turn in either direction, then later right
01:53:26 <graue> I never actually made a program that does "if" or "while", though
02:03:25 <graue> a different presentation of the A program in 1L: http://infestationgardens.net/files/a4.1l
02:04:42 -!- EgoBot has joined.
02:04:56 <GregorR> !bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
02:05:09 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]}
02:05:20 <graue> now how about a Sceql interpreting mode?
02:06:03 <GregorR> First I have to integrate curl.
02:06:53 <graue> you know, what would be really awesome is if it could download and run interpreters from web URLs
02:07:10 <graue> but only if the interpreters are themselves written in a language that is already allowed
02:07:16 <GregorR> Except for the gigantic security whole.
02:08:11 <graue> then all you'd have to do is allow ORK, and we'd be able to use Kipple, through Orkipple
02:08:42 <graue> and the bf command would be obsolete, we'd just use the brainfuck interpreter in kipple, running under orkipple
02:09:06 <GregorR> I also have a BF interpreter in ORK you know ;)
02:09:18 <kipple> and then we just write a chef implementation in bf....
02:09:35 <graue> I know, but using an esoteric language implemented in an esoteric language implemented in an esoteric language is better than being just two levels of esolangs deep
02:10:01 <graue> imagine if there were an ORK implementation in Perl...
02:10:22 <kipple> and then a perl implementation in befunge
02:11:16 <GregorR> Now let's see if I did this amazing feature right ...
02:11:32 <GregorR> I just realized that it's virtually impossible to test if I did it correctly :P
02:11:44 <GregorR> It's still alive, that's promising :P
02:12:00 <GregorR> What's the URL to LostKng.b?
02:12:22 <GregorR> !bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/hello.b
02:13:08 <GregorR> Oh, that's an interpreter, not Hello World XD
02:14:28 <graue> !bf http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/random.b
02:14:31 <EgoBot> œua\hpdg_ܻrɇyidR@J* ' NH}tocaay^8~N@_HTỎ@=D8:a=wC8_xLYp6Yo[8
02:14:35 <EgoBot> }/qOuvK<CTCP><fS3-,7DSwZucB~ܫCL<&けZANwC:tvG͙?ȄyJ7 nvI-0i256MM%b;
02:14:37 <EgoBot> [q#.681NvOz?`B+p皠2&R<CTCP>3>toO>xځb*ALଝշͅIhz_ōcg4xrVm(&m:
02:15:17 <kipple> he's quite eloquent for a bot :)
02:17:19 -!- J|x has joined.
02:17:53 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
02:18:05 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix.
02:18:08 <graue> isn't this the most musical program you've ever seen? http://www.infestationgardens.net/files/a4.1l
02:19:06 <kipple> is that the one that prints A?
02:19:29 <kipple> ok . I will not attempt 99bob then... ;)
02:19:53 <graue> kipple: you could with the help of some high-level language programs, possibly
02:20:08 <graue> I do not know, ask calamari
02:20:15 <GregorR> calamari: PING PING PING!!!
02:20:39 <graue> jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html
02:20:44 <graue> somewhere in there
02:21:00 <GregorR> I was referring to the .b file.
02:21:04 <graue> seems to be a zip, you'll have to unzip it and put it someplace
02:21:19 <graue> on calamari's computer it's on http://localhost/ somewhere
02:21:31 <GregorR> !bf http://www.esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/mandelbrot.b
02:21:34 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDEGFFEEEEDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:36 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDEEEFGIIGFFEEEDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:38 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEFFFI KHGGGHGEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:40 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEFFGHIMTKLZOGFEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:42 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFGGHHIKPPKIHGFFEEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:44 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFFGHIJKS X KHHGFEEEEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:46 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAAABBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFFGQPUVOTY ZQL[MHFEEEEEEEDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:48 <EgoBot> AAAAAAAABBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEFFFFFGGHJLZ UKHGFFEEEEEEEEDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:50 <EgoBot> AAAAAAABBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEFFFFFFGGGGHIKP KHHGGFFFFEEEEEEDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBB
02:21:52 <EgoBot> AAAAAAABBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEFGGHIIHHHHHIIIJKMR VMKJIHHHGFFFFFFGSGEDDDDCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBB
02:21:55 <EgoBot> AAAAAABBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFFGHK MKJIJO N R X YUSR PLV LHHHGGHIOJGFEDDDCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBB
02:21:58 <EgoBot> AAAAABBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEFFFFGH O TN S NKJKR LLQMNHEEDDDCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBB
02:22:01 <EgoBot> AAAAABBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFGHHIN Q UMWGEEEDDDCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBB
02:22:01 <GregorR> Hmm, that kill didn't work so well :P
02:22:04 <EgoBot> AAAABBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFFGHIJKLOT [JGFFEEEDDCCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBBB
02:22:07 <EgoBot> AAAABCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFFGGHYV RQU QMJHGGFEEEDDDCCCCCCCCCCCCCBBBB
02:22:12 <EgoBot> AAABCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDEEFJIHFFFFFFFFFFFFFFGGGGGGHIJN
02:23:00 <GregorR> !bf http://www.esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/src/rot13.b
02:23:02 <graue> is it possible to input to the programs?
02:23:13 <GregorR> graue: If I did the last bit right, yes.
02:23:57 <GregorR> First person to name a language wins the honor of the first new language ;)
02:24:25 <graue> GregorR: how about a way to input EOF?
02:24:42 <GregorR> graue: Yeah, that issue occurred to me too late, but it may be possible ...
02:24:51 <GregorR> Not sure how to translate an EOF over a pipe. Just close the write end I suppose.
02:26:22 <kipple> what system is this bot running on btw?
02:26:52 <GregorR> graue: Have an example prog?
02:26:57 <graue> !sceql http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/other/beer.sceql
02:26:59 <GregorR> !sceql http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/other/beer.sceql
02:27:05 <EgoBot> 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.
02:27:07 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:11 <EgoBot> 98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer.
02:27:13 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 97 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:17 <EgoBot> 97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottles of beer.
02:27:19 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 96 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:23 <EgoBot> 96 bottles of beer on the wall, 96 bottles of beer.
02:27:25 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 95 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:29 <EgoBot> 95 bottles of beer on the wall, 95 bottles of beer.
02:27:31 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 94 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:35 <EgoBot> 94 bottles of beer on the wall, 94 bottles of beer.
02:27:37 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 93 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:41 <GregorR> Oh, hehe, I niced down kill :P
02:27:41 <EgoBot> 93 bottles of beer on the wall, 93 bottles of beer.
02:27:43 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 92 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:47 <EgoBot> 92 bottles of beer on the wall, 92 bottles of beer.
02:27:49 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 91 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:49 <GregorR> kill should have max prio.
02:27:53 <EgoBot> 91 bottles of beer on the wall, 91 bottles of beer.
02:27:55 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 90 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:27:59 <EgoBot> 90 bottles of beer on the wall, 90 bottles of beer.
02:28:01 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 89 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:05 <EgoBot> 89 bottles of beer on the wall, 89 bottles of beer.
02:28:07 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 88 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:11 <EgoBot> 88 bottles of beer on the wall, 88 bottles of beer.
02:28:13 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 87 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:17 <EgoBot> 87 bottles of beer on the wall, 87 bottles of beer.
02:28:18 <GregorR> killall sceql isn't working XD
02:28:19 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 86 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:23 <EgoBot> 86 bottles of beer on the wall, 86 bottles of beer.
02:28:25 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 85 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:29 <EgoBot> 85 bottles of beer on the wall, 85 bottles of beer.
02:28:31 <kipple> no worries. only 85 more to go
02:28:32 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 84 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:33 <jix> GregorR: kill egobot
02:28:35 <EgoBot> 84 bottles of beer on the wall, 84 bottles of beer.
02:28:37 <EgoBot> Take one down and pass it around, 83 bottles of beer on the wall.
02:28:41 <EgoBot> 83 bottles of beer on the wall, 83 bottles of beer.
02:28:43 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:29:11 <cpressey> hey, remember when people used to, like, talk to each other in this channel?
02:30:00 -!- EgoBot has joined.
02:30:16 <GregorR> Don't put BoB on EgoBot :P
02:30:49 * jix ... sleep...
02:31:02 <GregorR> Oh, I know why kill wasn't working.
02:31:07 <GregorR> The output is already on the buffer :P
02:31:12 <lament> this is why bots should be limited to one line of output
02:31:22 <graue> I was just gonna say that
02:31:29 <graue> except when using private messages, of course
02:31:56 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
02:32:30 <GregorR> Oh, I could have done !reload.
02:32:36 <GregorR> That would have stopped it in its tracks.
02:33:12 <lament> I propose to ban all non-bot users
02:33:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament.
02:33:40 <lament> who should i start with
02:34:40 <lament> clog and cmeme are bots
02:34:45 <GregorR> OK, the !flush command will get rid of any output on EgoBot's buffer :P
02:34:57 <lament> that guy created befunge. he MUST be a bot.
02:35:20 <lament> Egobot, esobot, falsebot...
02:35:28 <lament> bah! this channel is all bots already :(
02:35:30 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament.
02:35:52 <GregorR> EsoBot, BFBot, GlassBot and (soon enough) falsebot are obsolete :)
02:36:12 <lament> GregorR: egobot can run any program?
02:36:24 <GregorR> Well, anything that can run on my system :P
02:36:26 <lament> i could give you my false interpreter
02:36:28 <GregorR> And produces output on stdout.
02:36:30 <lament> but there's probably a much better one
02:36:39 <lament> mine's in Python and Slow
02:36:39 <graue> give it to me to add to the esoteric file archive too, if you wouldn't mind
02:37:03 <lament> i'd have to modify it a bit.
02:37:07 <lament> like, add input to it :)
02:37:26 <GregorR> It has to be able to read the program from a file, that's about it *shrugs*
02:37:27 <lament> (i still think that's something that bots ought NOT to have)
02:37:54 <GregorR> But then I couldn't play Lost Kingdom on #esoteric ;)
02:41:50 <GregorR> !kipple http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/kipple/samples/hello.k
02:42:15 <GregorR> Hmm, something wrong with cipple ...
02:42:26 <graue> it needs to receive EOF before it can run the program
02:42:31 <graue> kipple's IO is batch
02:43:27 <kipple> that's one unfortunate consequence of Kipple's design
02:43:30 <graue> by the way, I propose that bots be able to receive at most one line of input, after which the program gets EOF
02:44:02 <graue> except possibly in private message, 'cause that doesn't disturb anything
02:45:26 <graue> also, if the command is prefixed with an extra !, like "!!kipple etc", it could provide EOF immediately
02:46:15 <GregorR> Ah, like not even open input in the first place.
02:46:23 <GregorR> Noted, not implementing quite yet ;)
02:46:27 <GregorR> First I want to get !eof working.
02:47:34 <graue> not like not even open input in the first place; if you do that, you'll leave the program hanging, waiting for input
02:48:09 <graue> lately I've been thinking about a C-like language where the only primitive data types would be "bit" and "bool"
02:48:17 <graue> numbers would be arrays of bits
02:48:29 <GregorR> !kipple http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/kipple/samples/hello.k
02:48:38 <GregorR> Doesn't seem to have worked, hmm.
02:48:52 <graue> but with no numbers as primitives, how would you pass the size of an array?
02:49:19 <graue> I guess arrays would have to "know" their size like in D
02:50:04 <GregorR> Anybody know how to transmit an EOF over a pipe?
02:50:43 <graue> what happens if you print a ^D over the pipe?
02:51:26 <graue> that obviously won't work though, never mind
02:52:21 <graue> closing the pipe really should do it
02:52:23 <GregorR> Hmm, wait I think my technique is flawed from the very beginning ... closing a pipe in a fork'd process won't do anything at all.
02:52:35 <graue> kipple: how do you like that language idea I mentioned?
02:53:14 <kipple> sounds interesting. but not sure how it would work... :)
02:53:22 <graue> I'm sure there's a way
02:54:09 <kipple> it would be good to have some more esoteric languages with a more un-esoteric syntax
02:54:12 <graue> I was thinking arrays would store their length, and there would be no pointers, only arrays, which are passed by reference
02:54:21 <graue> yeah, but un-esoteric syntaxes are more work of course
02:54:23 <kipple> and something else that makes them really esoteric instead
02:54:47 <graue> you have to learn how to use these difficult programs like "lex" and "yacc"
02:57:58 -!- Sgep has quit.
02:58:15 <GregorR> !kipple http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/kipple/samples/hello.k
02:58:31 <GregorR> No input support at all :P
03:03:24 <EgoBot> bch bf glass kipple sceql
03:05:33 <GregorR> Hmm, seems like the Udage interpreter for spec0.2 is a bit funky :P
03:12:47 <GregorR> !glypho 1d+d*dddd**++d1d+d*d*1d+*111++-++d1d+dd**1-++dd111+++11-+<[o<]!
03:13:06 <EgoBot> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: ./tmp/egobot.XnDmYW not found in java.lang.ClassLoader$1{urls=[file:/home/gregor/esoteric/egobot/glypho/./], parent=null}
03:13:08 <EgoBot> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass (URLClassLoader.java:841)
03:13:10 <EgoBot> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass (ClassLoader.java:358)
03:13:12 <EgoBot> at java.lang.ClassLoader$1.loadClass (ClassLoader.java:1297)
03:13:20 <kipple> what glypho interpreter are you using?
03:13:55 <GregorR> !glypho 1d+d*dddd**++d1d+d*d*1d+*111++-++d1d+dd**1-++dd111+++11-+<[o<]!
03:13:57 <EgoBot> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: glypho/ not found in java.lang.ClassLoader$1{urls=[file:/home/gregor/esoteric/egobot/./], parent=null}
03:13:59 <EgoBot> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass (URLClassLoader.java:841)
03:14:01 <EgoBot> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass (ClassLoader.java:358)
03:14:28 <graue> is there another Glypho interpreter?
03:14:33 <GregorR> !glypho 1d+d*dddd**++d1d+d*d*1d+*111++-++d1d+dd**1-++dd111+++11-+<[o<]!
03:14:34 <EgoBot> java.util.EmptyStackException
03:14:36 <EgoBot> at java.util.Stack.pop (Stack.java:107)
03:14:38 <EgoBot> at Operator.Operator (Operator.java:23)
03:14:40 <EgoBot> at GlyphoInterpreter.tokenize (GlyphoInterpreter.java:110)
03:14:42 <EgoBot> at GlyphoInterpreter.interpret (GlyphoInterpreter.java:49)
03:14:44 <EgoBot> at Glypho.Glypho (Glypho.java:119)
03:14:54 <kipple> that is not glypho code Gregor, that is shorthand notation
03:15:23 <GregorR> Well, somebody else test it :P
03:15:37 <graue> I'm typing my thoughts on the bit language into this file: http://www.voxelperfect.net:3875/esolang/bitlang.txt
03:16:08 <kipple> !glypho aaababacabbbaaababcb
03:16:45 <kipple> that should be a cat program
03:17:17 <GregorR> And it only outputs on newlines.
03:18:15 <GregorR> My ps implementation is subtly screwy ...
03:18:18 <graue> now how will arrays be indexed without using constant hardcoded indices?
03:18:32 <GregorR> With only bits as indexers? Idonno.
03:18:55 <graue> maybe some little black-box inc() and dec() system calls that increment and decrement bit arrays?
03:19:24 <kipple> why do you need both bit and bool?
03:19:55 <kipple> ok. that is of course a good reason :)
03:20:05 <graue> I'm going to go all C++ and make it so bools can't be added, and only bools can be used as test expressions, etc
03:20:26 <graue> just call it strong typing
03:20:28 * GregorR peruses the implemented catagory ...
03:20:42 <graue> not Qdeql, because the interpreter is prone to segfaulting
03:20:46 <graue> and the language is computationally useless
03:21:02 <GregorR> Rather than deciding what not to add, let's decide what to add ;)
03:21:12 <graue> surely that narrows down the list
03:21:17 <GregorR> kipple: See, now that should have been two lines.
03:21:31 <GregorR> I'm going to debug the output, kipple is screwing it up ;)
03:21:36 <kipple> do you have befunge yet?
03:21:47 <GregorR> No, I can't connect to catseye.mine.nu
03:22:22 <kipple> strange. are you connecting on port 8080?
03:22:29 <GregorR> It just took a /long/ time.
03:22:38 <graue> send me some befunge interpreters, by the way
03:22:42 <graue> the esoteric file archive doesn't have any
03:23:03 <GregorR> I found the issue, that was silly of me :P
03:27:40 <graue> check out my new proposed way of using arrays in bitlang: http://www.voxelperfect.net:3875/esolang/bitlang.txt
03:27:54 <graue> it avoids any use of constants other than 0 and 1
03:30:39 <graue> I don't think it's TC yet
03:30:55 <kipple> I don't see any control structures...
03:31:10 <graue> well, it would have the usual while() and if()
03:31:38 <kipple> gregor: how does it handle EOLs in source code?
03:32:00 <GregorR> kipple: You have to pass it a URL.
03:32:22 <GregorR> !funge93 http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/befunge93/eg/hello.bf
03:32:24 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
03:32:35 <GregorR> lol, apparently it outputs its version :P
03:33:21 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:23 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:25 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:27 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:29 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:31 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:32 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:35 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:37 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:33:39 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:34:03 <kipple> was trying to see if I could get the usage info
03:34:40 <GregorR> bef.c seems to have a bit of a quirk there :P
03:34:53 <GregorR> It's passing it an empty file, I'll bet ÿ == EOF :)
03:35:30 <kipple> it's 255 (or -1), so yeah.
03:35:47 <kipple> but it should handle an EOF though
03:36:59 <GregorR> !funge93 http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/befunge93/eg/hello.bf
03:37:01 <EgoBot> Befunge-93 Interpreter/Debugger v2.21
03:37:10 <GregorR> !funge93 http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/befunge93/eg/postfix.bf
03:37:13 <kipple> I just ran bef on an empty file with exactly the same result
03:37:15 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '=' (0x3d) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:37:17 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'l' (0x6c) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:37:19 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'b' (0x62) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:37:21 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '=' (0x3d) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:37:23 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction 'l' (0x6c) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
03:38:28 <graue> help! how do I make bitlang Turing complete?
03:38:44 <graue> without adding references or pointers or any other impurities like that
03:39:17 <GregorR> Without those, I have not even a clue.
03:40:15 <graue> of course, one can abuse the call stack as a general stack for storing things in
03:40:52 <graue> just include sufficient extra parameters to locate the instruction to go to, call main() to push a value, return to pop it
03:41:08 <graue> but a single stack isn't enough for TCness, although it *is* enough to implement a program that reverses its input
03:41:55 <graue> the reason references and pointers would be no good is that they would inescapably require more than one bit each
03:42:13 <kipple> they would have to be bit arrays then :)
03:42:57 <graue> but then I have to hardcode a size for the arrays
03:43:04 <graue> thus limiting the amount of memory available
03:43:07 <graue> thus making it non-TC
03:43:10 <kipple> I see you use the & operator in all the examples. Why not just do it automatically and get rid of pass by value completely
03:43:29 <graue> single bits should be passed by values, and arrays should optionally be able to be passed by value
03:44:09 <graue> without pass-by-value at all it's impossible to abuse the call stack as a stack, the way I described
03:46:07 <graue> hmm.. I wonder if somehow you could emulate two stacks with a function recursively calling itself..
03:48:14 <kipple> hmm. I see you use larger numbers than bits in the array declarations
03:48:27 <kipple> I though you wanted to avoid that
03:50:35 <graue> look further down, I have "another attempt"
03:51:20 <kipple> now we're getting esoteric
03:52:09 <kipple> why not simply "bit h[] = {0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0};
03:52:43 <kipple> the compiler can count the number of elements
03:53:30 <graue> because then how do I reference that last 1?
03:53:38 <graue> h[5]? but that's cheating
03:54:00 <graue> oh, I think I understand... you mean, not make the depth part of the type
03:54:36 <calamari> !bf http://68.226.23.83/bf/LostKng.b
03:54:45 <graue> that's good because it introduces the possibility for segfaults :)
03:55:01 <graue> I might do h[0][0][0][0] by mistake (extra "[0]") and not know about it until my program crashes
03:55:15 <graue> so that adds back some of the flavor of C
03:55:39 <kipple> well, good luck with the lang. gotta get some sleep. nite all
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03:59:11 <graue> I think I like the multi-depth arrays :)
03:59:15 <GregorR> EgoBot doesn't have and isn't designed to have any of the pseudo features of EsoBot.
03:59:30 <graue> my program to reverse its input (http://www.voxelperfect.net:3875/esolang/bitlang.txt) is pretty darn esoteric
03:59:47 <graue> but I'll try it with kipple's method
04:00:41 <graue> seems kind of inelegant, though
04:00:58 <graue> if bit[][] is the same as bit[], why isn't bit[] the same as bit?
04:01:04 <GregorR> !raw QUIT :Switching to a less privileged user
04:01:04 -!- EgoBot has quit ("Switching to a less privileged user").
04:01:12 <graue> so I think I won't do that, in fact
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04:07:23 <cpressey> GregorR: you're going to need to pass it some command line flags to suppress printing of the version number
04:07:24 <GregorR> cpressey: If you pass it an empty file, it does this:
04:07:37 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
04:07:39 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
04:07:41 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
04:07:43 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
04:07:45 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction '' (0xffffffff) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
04:07:58 <GregorR> Not a particularly useful response :P
04:08:16 <cpressey> you expected something useful from trying to run an empty file? :)
04:09:00 <GregorR> Well, at least "ERROR: empty file" or just whatever an empty funge program would do :P
04:16:11 <graue> that's how I feel about most programs I wrote more than a few months ago
04:16:15 <GregorR> I'm looking at Glass' code and saying the same thing ;)
04:18:31 <graue> cpressey: what do you think of this C-like language? http://www.voxelperfect.net:3875/esolang/bitlang.txt
04:19:20 <graue> the current version of the language starts after "Another attempt at arrays"
04:31:11 <GregorR> !raw QUIT :Tinker tinker tinker...
04:31:12 -!- EgoBot has quit ("Tinker tinker tinker...").
04:32:37 <GregorR> G!{M[m(_o)O!"^QUIT :Oh no, I've been preempted!"(_o)o.?]}
04:32:38 -!- GlassBot has quit ("Oh no, I've been preempted!").
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04:34:44 <GregorR> Weird error to return when I kill it :P
04:34:55 <graue> I've added foreach to bitlang, so reload the page and read all about it, everyone
04:35:56 <GregorR> Hmm, foreach, that's not very C-ish ;)
04:36:22 <graue> but it does seem to fit in, the way I did it
04:36:53 <GregorR> BTW, is "bitlang" an in-progress name?
04:37:02 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:37:17 <graue> yes, it will probably be changed later
04:37:19 <graue> if this is ever done
04:41:24 <GregorR> !2l http://www.befunge.org/fyb/2l/exa/HelloWorld.2l
04:42:00 <graue> that never worked in my interpreter, by the way
04:42:22 <GregorR> I don't know what the issue is between them.
04:42:29 <GregorR> It doesn't help that I made the wiki page all wrong.
04:42:41 <graue> well, even with up/down reversed to match yours though
04:42:59 <graue> ah well, 1L is better
04:43:02 <GregorR> It still doesn't help that I made the wiki page all wrong ;)
04:43:23 <graue> !1l http://infestationgardens.net/files/a4.1l
04:43:55 <graue> how long did that HelloWorld.2l program take you to make, anyway?
04:44:00 <GregorR> I'm working on 1L right now.
04:44:09 <GregorR> I don't remember now, that was over a year ago.
04:44:21 <graue> you didn't have a program do it for you?
04:44:40 <graue> because I think the help of a program written in a high-level language would be invaluable in writing 1L programs
04:50:03 <EgoBot> 1l 2l bch bf funge93 glass glypho kipple sceql udage01
04:50:04 <graue> !1l http://infestationgardens.net/files/a4.1l
04:50:27 <GregorR> 10 implemented, infinity to go!
04:50:58 <graue> now I can develop and test 1L programs on any computer with an IRC client and an scp command (or a local HTTP server)
04:51:03 <graue> because I really, really needed to do that
04:51:40 <graue> can it download from anonymous ftps, too?
04:52:14 <GregorR> No, but that's just because I have a filter in that only accepts "http://"
04:53:24 <graue> I think the bitlang is done (spec anyway)
04:54:06 <graue> it's not Turing-complete, but neither is C, we concluded
04:54:13 <graue> so making it Turing-complete would defeat the purpose
04:54:41 <GregorR> Is it at least a good of a BSM as C?
04:54:50 <graue> it can still do pretty much anything since the amount of memory it can use is limited only by the program size
04:55:24 <graue> you can do "bit mem[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][];" and have 1 GB of memory (theoretically)
04:55:44 <GregorR> Mind adding EgoBot to the svn server and/or giving me an svn account? :P
04:56:20 <graue> not at all, but I mind doing either tonight because it's late
04:57:19 <graue> good nite all, or whatever it was someone else said upon leaving earlier today
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05:06:25 <EgoBot> 1l 2l bch bf funge93 glass glypho kipple malbolge sceql udage01
05:12:33 <EgoBot> ^QUIT :Oh no, I've been preempted!
05:16:01 <EgoBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
05:16:12 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Different M"(_o)o.?]}
05:23:39 <cpressey> GregorR: sorry, stuff came up... as a workaround, just pass -i to the interpreter until i can find out where it needs fixing
05:24:10 <cpressey> and ftr there is no such language as 'funge93'
05:24:28 <cpressey> at least, not that i'm aware of :)
05:25:18 <GregorR> If I called it "bf93", it would be confusing, if I called it "befunge93", it would be too long, so *shrugs*
05:26:33 <GregorR> I didn't want to confuse it with earlier befunges either.
05:26:55 <GregorR> BTW lament, could you send me the source to your False IRC bot so I can rape^H^H^H^Hmodify it into an EgoBot component?
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05:27:11 <GregorR> Oh, that doesn't say "Ego"
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05:28:36 <EgoBot> 1l 2l bch bf funge93 glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
05:28:46 <cpressey> there were earlier befunges? :) (i'm sure you meant 'later'...)
05:29:14 <lament> "befunge" seems to imply "befunge93" pretty unambiguously to me
05:29:30 <GregorR> *shrugs*, it's a quick n' easy change, one sec.
05:31:10 <lament> how would you have it preserve state?
05:31:29 <lament> false or any other language
05:31:43 <GregorR> cpressey: What does -i do?
05:31:49 <GregorR> lament: In Glass I have a cache file.
05:31:59 <GregorR> It loads the cache file on every invocation.
05:31:59 <cpressey> GregorR: suppresses 'this is not a befunge instruction' warnings
05:32:51 <EgoBot> 1l 2l befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
05:33:43 <GregorR> Twelve languages so far :)
05:34:33 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot: F!<false>, EsoBot: E!help, EgoBot: !help.
05:35:15 <EgoBot> 1l 2l befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
05:35:32 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Wow, EgoBot sure can run a lot of languages!"(_o)o.?]}
05:35:35 <EgoBot> Wow, EgoBot sure can run a lot of languages!
05:36:21 <Robdgreat> !glass (M[m(_o)O!"Wow, glass seems such a waste of technology!"(_o)o.?])
05:36:26 <EgoBot> ^QUIT :Oh no, I've been preempted!
05:36:47 <GregorR> If you screw up the glass code, the results are undefined ;)
05:36:53 <GregorR> !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++>+++++<<<<-]>>+++.++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++.<++.------------.>>>-.<+++++.++++++++.>---.<.<---.<.>>++++.++.<--.-------------.<.>--.--.+++++++++++++.<.>-----.+++++.>-.<---------.>--.--.++.<.>++.>----------------------------------.<<----.<.>+++++++++++.+++.>.>.<<.---------.>>.<--------.<-----.+++++++++++++.-------.>+++++++++.<------.++++++.--.>--.>+.
05:36:55 <EgoBot> Wow, EgoBot sure can interpret a lot of languages!
05:41:30 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Come on Robdgreat, join the club!"(_o)o.?]}
05:41:32 <EgoBot> Come on Robdgreat, join the club!
06:12:03 <Robdgreat> sorry, wife finally got the dog she's been pining away for for like the entire time I've known her, and it's making me crazy
06:14:29 <Robdgreat> it's somewhat difficult to distinguish some forms of punctuation in this font at this contrast level
06:16:32 <Robdgreat> fixedsys is my usual standby but it is ... incomplete
06:16:43 <Robdgreat> never was a problem for me until I came here :P
06:17:11 <Robdgreat> this channel is also the reason I'm running 2 irc clients
06:18:07 <Robdgreat> because I actually prefer mIRC, but I'm in here on kvirc for utf8
06:19:29 <Robdgreat> OMGWTF i like mirc we're all gonna die
06:19:34 <GregorR> Réàlĺÿ, Ï´m thē õñlÿ person using ÜTF8
06:20:41 <GregorR> Oh, forgot to put a ^ on any of those.
06:21:21 <Robdgreat> you may have just demonstrated that I'm wasting my time anyways
06:21:25 <Robdgreat> that didn't look like anything to me
06:22:20 <GregorR> OK, now to modify pbrain so it caches ...
06:22:58 <Robdgreat> I love a good ol' wrong number at 12:30am
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06:23:54 <GregorR> Maybe I'll just add pbrain support to EgoBF ...
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06:37:29 <lament> nothing wrong with mirc
06:39:25 <EgoBot> Portable False Interpreter/Debugger v0.1 (c) 1993 $#%!
06:39:30 <EgoBot> ERROR: unbalanced '"'!
06:39:33 <EgoBot> LINE: "This is a test"
06:41:05 <lament> well, i guess one thing wrong with mirc
06:41:20 <lament> can only use it on one platform
06:41:45 <lament> inconvenient for some people
06:42:55 <GregorR> Looks like falsebot isn't going to be preempted for the forseeable future :P
06:43:07 <GregorR> false_int.c = worst code EVER
06:43:41 <lament> Robdgreat: you're lucky. Or unlucky. I dunno :)
06:44:07 <lament> I use mac at home, Windows and Linux on college computers
06:44:09 <GregorR> I too only use one platform. It just isn't that one.
06:44:49 <lament> having to use three different irc clients would be inconvenient
06:46:30 <Robdgreat> well I use windows solely because I love getting crucified for using the "wrong" os
06:50:08 <lament> i'm not crucifying you
06:50:15 <lament> i just said i use windows myself, occasionally
06:50:30 <lament> a mac-only irc client would be equally inconvenient (to me)
06:52:06 <lament> they have jelly for brains.
06:52:32 * GregorR begins eating his delicious marionberry jelly brain.
06:53:16 <Robdgreat> many who are overly vocal about using linux are compensating for having a small penix
06:53:38 <lament> not exactly sure how that applies
06:53:52 <lament> i.e. why does linux work as a compensation
06:54:09 <GregorR> I don't think Tux has a particularly large penis.
06:54:24 <lament> oh, he does, i know it for a fact
06:54:39 <GregorR> But the GNU, Gnus' are probably telescopic.
06:54:46 <lament> Robdgreat: well, a little elitism never hurt anybody
06:54:56 <lament> and it's perfectly justified in case of any niche tool
06:55:06 <GregorR> For example, Glass is the best esolang in existance.
06:55:11 <lament> i mean come on, we're esoteric programmers
06:55:21 <lament> that makes us all uber-geniuses :)
06:57:43 <GregorR> I don't remember any particular shunning.
06:57:45 <lament> oh, it's not because you're the new guy
06:57:49 <Robdgreat> and the torches and pitchforks aren't very sociable.
06:58:00 <lament> it's because you're a wannabe windows user scum with jelly for brains
06:58:22 <lament> hey, you're from brasil?
06:58:44 <lament> there's a .br. in your ip
06:58:52 <lament> but then there's also a .cox.net
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11:38:32 <EgoBot> 1l 2l befunge bch bf false glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
11:38:52 <kipple> wow- that's quite a lot of languages :)
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15:17:20 <GregorR> axopp.0.1.0.cc:135: error: `sranddev' undeclared (first use this function)
15:18:02 <jix> i have sranddev
15:19:01 <jix> sets the random seed using the random device
15:19:46 <GregorR> Do you know a C Preprocessor define that OSX sets (so I can implement sranddev in an #ifndef)?
15:21:44 <jix> __APPLE__ is set
15:22:10 <jix> you could seed it with the current time
15:22:16 <jix> that's maybe more portable
15:22:23 <jix> or pid or whatever
15:22:46 <GregorR> Or maybe I could use /dev/random if it exists :P
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15:27:02 <graue> BSD has srandomdev() which should be used with random()
15:27:22 <graue> random/srandom are like rand/srand, but produce a sequence with better properties
15:27:40 <graue> there is no sranddev on BSD though as far as I know
15:28:54 <graue> ah, FreeBSD does have it
15:29:15 <graue> although FreeBSD's manpage also warns that it is obsolete and to use the random(3) functions instead
15:29:16 <GregorR> I would presume that if Darwin has it, FreeBSD has it *shrugs*
15:29:35 <GregorR> I have random but not srandomdev.
15:30:34 <graue> use srandomdev() if the system is something BSD-ish, use srandom((unsigned int) time(NULL)) instead
15:31:04 <GregorR> Why not srandom by /dev/random if it exists?
15:32:22 <graue> /dev/random seems to exist but not work here
15:32:43 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
15:33:07 <graue> /dev/urandom works, though
15:33:21 <GregorR> Isn't urandom more precious?
15:34:00 <graue> "does not guarantee the data to be strong. The entropy pool data is converted into output data using MD5. When the entropy pool quality runs low, the driver will continue to output data."
15:34:41 <graue> also on BSD you can use arc4random(), which does not need to be seeded
15:34:56 <GregorR> I'll make axo use /dev/urandom, since it's pretty pointless :P
15:35:25 <graue> what's pointless? axo? /dev/urandom?
15:35:38 <GregorR> Nobody's writing a secure login system in axo.
15:36:27 <GregorR> Is there a way to systematically close every file above 2 (stderr)?
15:36:38 <GregorR> Other than a very long for loop :P
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16:22:30 <jix> GregorR: working on axo support for egobot?
16:22:46 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
16:22:54 <jix> ah there is axo support ;)
16:23:44 <jix> !axo "$!dlrow ,olleH"((((((((((((((\
16:24:53 <jix> GregorR: do you want axo to quit on some endless nop loops?
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16:46:45 <graue> jix: bf2a is awesome, by the way
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16:51:31 <jix> graue: thanks
16:51:49 <jix> GregorR_: do you want axo to quit on some endless nop loops?
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17:34:16 <GregorR_> jix: No, it doesn't matter, you can !kill it.
17:34:18 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to GregorR.
17:35:01 <GregorR> Apparently I had a rather severe network hiccup there ...
17:35:41 -!- EgoBot has joined.
17:35:50 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
17:36:34 <jix> i'm still working on tues
17:39:11 <GregorR> Suggestions for other languages to add?
17:40:06 <jix> GregorR: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list
17:40:24 <graue> how about something functional?
17:40:50 <graue> doesn't that have a page somewhere?
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17:42:18 <jix> bcl is just another way to write CL
17:43:09 <graue> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Combinatory_logic
17:43:13 <graue> that must be what I was thinking of
17:43:43 <jix> thats what lazy-k uses
17:44:11 <jix> but lazy-k adds I but one can write SKK instead of I
17:44:45 <graue> Lazy-K is too big a language
17:45:21 <jix> lazy-k is only a lazy CL evaluator
17:45:41 <jix> unlambda is more a language than a CL evaluator
17:46:25 <graue> GregorR: add an interpreter that only knows the S and K combinators
17:47:37 <graue> jix: I don't know, why not?
17:47:41 <jix> lazy-k can execute S and K only code but has I.. where is the problem with I
17:47:43 <graue> he was asking for ideas what to add
17:48:11 <graue> what if we add the capability to save macros, and then just define I as SKK?
17:48:27 <jix> macros are unpure CL
17:48:38 <graue> well, no they're not, all they do is save typing
17:48:58 <graue> think of it as compression: when I type I, it's really as though I typed SKK
17:49:10 <jix> you can do things easier using macro-recursion
17:49:38 <graue> that's true, but you can also do things easier using I, so why is that permissible?
17:50:01 <graue> fine, fine, just implement Lazy-K then
17:50:42 <jix> you can do things different (not the CL way) using macros.. with I you still have to use the CL way
17:51:07 <graue> not yet, I've been lazy
17:51:43 <graue> jix: how is it any different from the CL way? I could just recursively substitute in the macro expansions, and then it would be CL
17:51:49 <graue> I don't see how that makes an actual difference
17:52:03 <jix> graue: no because the recurson never ends => infinite long CL code
17:52:26 <jix> who owns esolangs.org ?
17:52:43 <graue> calamari controls it temporarily for the time being
17:52:55 <graue> yeah, wooby is in Iraq now, apparently
17:53:26 <graue> jix: I'm assuming the recursion would end
17:53:35 <jix> I was assuming it doesn't
17:53:54 <graue> well, suppose the macros all just get "uncompressed" first, and only after that is the CL evaluated
17:54:14 <jix> that's ok but that could be an extra filter before passing the code to LK
17:54:30 <graue> do you suggest implementing it that way?
17:54:51 <jix> i'd like to point tues.esolangs.org to "The Ultimate Esolang Shootout" (when i'm done writing it)
17:56:50 <graue> I can just put it up on www.esolangs.org/tues
17:57:14 <graue> or does the website have to be hosted on the test machine?
17:57:27 <jix> it has to be hosted on my server
17:57:43 <graue> I can make tues.esoteric.voxelperfect.net work :)
17:57:46 <jix> it needs ruby on rails an probably lighttpd as server
17:57:55 <jix> i can make tues.mooo.com work
17:58:07 <graue> my web host supports both of those technologies, incidentally
17:58:16 <graue> is that all it needs?
17:58:28 <jix> and some gems
17:58:34 <jix> (gem == ruby package)
17:58:43 <jix> and libtidy
17:58:53 <jix> and mysql or some other sql
17:59:12 <graue> well, maybe you should host it anyway just because I'm not familiar with any of that stuff and would probably screw it up
17:59:24 <jix> i have no problems hosting it
17:59:46 <graue> except for lighttpd, I use that here for www.voxelperfect.net:3875
18:00:38 <jix> apache would work too but apache + fastcgi => i'm unable to configure that
18:01:20 <graue> what are your challenges so far?
18:02:00 <jix> 99bob for testing
18:02:08 <jix> i'm still busy with ruby coding
18:05:19 <GregorR> So, about new languages, can somebody suggest specific interpreters?
18:09:59 -!- mtve has joined.
18:12:38 <graue> http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/download/lazy-k/lazy.cpp
18:28:42 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple lazyk malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
18:30:17 <graue> !lazyk http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/download/lazy-k/eg/primes.lazy
18:30:32 <graue> doesn't seem to work, eh?
18:31:28 <GregorR> The interpreter was quite Windowsy >_<
18:31:37 <GregorR> Oh wait, does that program terminate?
18:31:58 <GregorR> Heheh, it doesn't ever print a \n and it doesn't ever terminate, so it will never get any output here ;)
18:32:12 <GregorR> And it used io.h, O_BINARY, and some other funky Win garbage.
18:32:35 <graue> it doesn't print a \n?
18:33:05 <GregorR> It puts a ' ' between each prime.
18:33:09 <graue> the io.h, O_BINARY etc is necessary for binary output on stdout
18:33:59 <GregorR> !lazyk http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/download/lazy-k/eg/rot13.lazy
18:34:57 <GregorR> !i 1 This works on the console ...
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19:00:30 -!- Keymaker has joined.
19:00:52 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(o)O!"Hello, Keymaker."(_o)o.?]}
19:01:00 <Keymaker> jix: what is this tues exactly?
19:01:09 <GregorR> Hmm, why didn't that work XD
19:01:24 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, Keymaker."(_o)o.?]}
19:01:27 <GregorR> Because my code was bad ;)
19:01:47 <Keymaker> hello egobot. where is esobot?
19:01:59 <GregorR> It's only on when calamari is.
19:02:07 <GregorR> But EgoBot rawx0rz EsoBot anyway.
19:02:21 <GregorR> (And that's not just ego ;) )
19:02:32 <Keymaker> there's many bots as lament mentioned in some logs :)
19:02:44 <GregorR> Well, EgoBot preempted GlassBot and BFBot.
19:03:02 <GregorR> And realistically, EsoBot.
19:03:48 <Keymaker> if i could make a bot it could replace me easily; "hello" ":)" "hehe" "bye"
19:04:13 <GregorR> I could add that functionality to EgoBot :P
19:05:14 <jix> Keymaker: The Ultimate Esolang Shootout
19:05:18 <Keymaker> by the way, it was pretty fun in some log to read about you guys running beer.sceql here.. and the bot getting out of control for a while, not wanting to stop :)
19:05:30 <jix> a speed codesize benchmark for esolangs and esolang implementations
19:06:56 <Keymaker> how does it work? big bunch of interpreters?
19:07:20 <GregorR> Something like EgoBot but offline? :P
19:07:46 <jix> no it's a website and users can submit interpreters / solutions / bla and the admins (me) can add them
19:07:52 <GregorR> Whoops, gtg, don't want to miss my next class.
19:08:31 <jix> something like: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ but much better
19:12:53 -!- graue has joined.
19:13:41 <graue> hey, great work on that beer.sceql program, Keymaker
19:18:23 <Keymaker> i was already worried there was something wrong with the program, but thankfully it was just some bugs in interpreter
19:20:45 <Keymaker> i sent it over to 99-bottles-of-beer.net but they haven't updated yet
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20:13:40 <GregorR-L> Yet another class to pay no attention in.
20:33:33 <fizzie> (I first parsed that as in thing-you-instantiate-objects-of.)
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20:37:36 <jix> tues has 383 lines of ruby code atm (but some of the lines are generated)
20:37:37 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
20:37:50 <jix> wb GregorR you missed an important line
20:38:06 <jix> 21:37:14<jix>tues has 383 lines of ruby code atm (but some of the lines are generated)
20:38:51 <jix> oh missed .rhtml templates
20:39:42 <jix> but removing empty lines 378 lines
20:39:43 <jix> no not yet
20:39:48 <jix> not completed yet
20:40:08 <jix> this project is complexer than the 99bob site
20:40:57 <GregorR-L> So complexer that it requires the invention of a new word: complexer.
20:43:10 <GregorR-L> Hmm, maybe we can imly why he doesn't come here anymore from his last two lessons:
20:43:19 <GregorR-L> 05.09.29:13:36:59 * {^Raven^} 's pc just exploded
20:43:21 <GregorR-L> 05.09.29:16:49:36 * {^Raven^} 's other computer just exploded (two working ones remaining)
20:43:31 <GregorR-L> Maybe the two working ones exploded :-P
20:43:55 * GregorR-L wonders what cpressey's rim shot was about ...
20:44:35 <cpressey> no, wait! it was just a random rim shot out of the blue. that's much more esoteric.
20:46:51 -!- nooga has joined.
20:47:12 <GregorR-L> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA!"(_o)o.?]}
20:47:13 <EgoBot> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA!
20:47:39 <jix> !false "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGA!"
20:47:51 <GregorR-L> jix: No false in EgoBot yet, can't find a good interp.
20:47:58 <jix> the c one?
20:48:09 <GregorR-L> If you're referring to false_int.c
20:48:36 <jix> !glass {M[m~Debug.cl~]}
20:48:37 <EgoBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
20:49:30 <jix> !glass {(Moo)[(moo)]}
20:49:35 <jix> !glass {(Moo)}
20:49:40 <jix> !glass {M[m~Debug.cl~]}
20:49:41 <EgoBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
20:49:59 <nooga> only testing codes
20:50:08 <GregorR-L> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"I'm hurt!"(_o)o.?]}
20:52:20 <GregorR-L> Oh, and I have a trademark over the letter R when used to mean "are"
20:53:23 <Robdgreat> that toy chain must singlehandedly keep food on the table for you, eh
20:53:56 <GregorR-L> They don't use "R", they use a backwards "R" ;)
20:54:26 <Robdgreat> I used to be able to transliterate Cyrillic
20:54:42 <Robdgreat> I had to occupy myself somehow while not paying attention in class in high school
20:55:54 <GregorR-L> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0520239490/qid=1130270115/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-2026037-5911307?v=glance&s=books < awesome book
20:56:37 -!- klutzy has joined.
20:56:45 <Robdgreat> heiroglyphics don't really lend themselves to quickly jotting notes
20:57:05 -!- klutzh has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:57:33 <nooga> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"I am sooo stupid:p"(_o)o.?]}
20:57:59 <GregorR-L> !glass {M[m(_e)(Emote)!"is not!"(_e)e.?]}
20:58:00 <Robdgreat> so that book covers hieratics, too?
20:58:02 <EgoBot> <CTCP>ACTION is not!<CTCP>
20:58:14 <GregorR-L> Did I not get emote in the new bot?
20:58:42 <EgoBot> (_s)S!(_o)O!<1>(_s)(ns).?0(_o)o.?"ACTION "(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?(_o)o.?,
21:00:25 <GregorR-L> Woah, I need to go, my batteries are about to die.
21:00:31 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("/me needs to charge more often.").
21:01:00 <Sgep> Bye all! Be back later today!
21:01:37 <jix> 22:01 here
21:01:58 -!- Sgep has quit.
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22:00:35 <jix> !glass {M[m<7><5>~A.d~~O.on~]}
22:19:20 <jix> i use it for quick testing of pop order
22:19:28 <jix> i don't use it in my code
22:19:36 * jix is working on a math lib
22:19:38 <jix> sqrt is done
22:19:43 <jix> working on log
22:20:35 <jix> !glass {(JixMath)[(c__)aA!p<9>=][pp*][(sp)p1=,][(sqrt)(_v)1=(_x)1<100>ad.?af.?=,(_q)<1>=/(_x)(_x)0*<100>ad.?af.?=(_q)0*<10>am.?=\(_p)p*=/(_p)(_p)0*<1>as.?=(_q)0*(_v)*1ad.?aa.?<2>ad.?=\(_q)*]}
22:21:06 <jix> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <2> j(sqrt).? o(on).?]}
22:21:17 <jix> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <200> j(sqrt).? o(on).?]}
22:22:29 <GregorR> I think I need to make a central repository of Glass classes :)
22:23:30 <jix> and you can set precision using (sp) (and query it using p)
22:24:15 <jix> it uses newton's method combined with my intelligent start value selection
22:34:08 <GregorR> jix, you've already out-Glassed me :P
22:41:23 <jix> /away short
22:49:28 -!- calamari has joined.
22:50:27 <calamari> egobot doesn't seem to be responding in pm
22:50:54 <GregorR> That's right, they disabled PMs for non-registered users.
22:52:05 <GregorR> The sound you make to go "Whatever, I don't care, it's not worth it, etc"
22:52:52 <calamari> are you willign to let EsoBot be superior to EgoBot then? lol
22:53:29 <GregorR> I'm registering it AS WE SPEAK.
22:58:46 -!- Sgep has joined.
23:09:36 <jix> 23:58:24-->Sgep (n=sgeo@ool-182e9882.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #esoteric << 2 mins later and it wouldn't be "today"
23:09:42 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
23:10:11 <GregorR> That's an interesting thing to point out :P
23:12:41 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:20:41 <jix> where is egobot?!
23:24:47 <jix> log is more difficult than sqrt
23:30:20 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:30:31 <GregorR> The original problem isn't fixed, but it is working :P
23:38:22 <jix> log_e implemented
23:38:36 <GregorR> Feel free to keep EgoBot up to date ;)
23:39:11 <jix> and math constants are added (only euler-e atm)
23:39:31 <jix> you can query them using (constantname)(JixMathInstance)c.?
23:39:35 <GregorR> I'll be back in about two hours (and will probably be on from class as well ;) )
23:40:07 <jix> I'll be in bed in about one hour
23:44:06 <jix> !glass {(JixMath)[(c__)aA!p<9>=(ee)<2.71828182845905>=][pp*][(sp)p1=,][(sqrt)(_v)1=(_x)1<100>ad.?af.?=,(_q)<1>=/(_x)(_x)0*<100>ad.?af.?=(_q)0*<10>am.?=\(_p)p*=/(_p)(_p)0*<1>as.?=(_q)0*(_v)*1ad.?aa.?<2>ad.?=\(_q)*][(log)(_v)1=,(_c)<-1>=(_x)<1>=/(_x)(_v)*<1.5>a(ge).?(_x)1=(_y)1=,(_c)0*<1>aa.?=/(_y)(_v)0*(ee)*ad.?=(_c)(_y)<0>=\\(_p)p*=(_v)0*<1>as.?=(_o)(_v)*=(_s)<1>=(_i)<0>=(_x)<0>=/(_p)(_p)0*<1>as.?=(_i)0*<1>aa.?=(_x)0*(_o)*(_i)*ad.?(_s)*am.?aa.?=(_o)
23:44:06 <jix> 0*(_v)*am.?=(_s)<0>(_s)*as.?=(_x)\(_c)*(_x)*aa.?][c*]}
23:44:45 <jix> !glass http://rafb.net/paste/results/u8OmKA86.txt
23:45:39 <jix> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! (ee)'euler e' jc.? j(log).? o(on).? "\n"oo.?]}
23:48:50 <jix> !glass {M[m aA! oO! j(JixMath)! (ee)'euler e' jc.? 0 am.? j(log).? o(on).?]}
23:49:13 <jix> !glass {M[m aA! oO! j(JixMath)! (ee)'euler e' jc.? 0 am.? j(log).? o(on).? "\n"oo.?]}
23:50:43 <jix> !glass {M[m aA! oO! j(JixMath)! (ee)'euler e' j(sqrt).? j(log).? o(on).? "\n"oo.?]}
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23:51:29 <jix> moin int-e
23:53:39 <jix> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! (ee)'euler e' jc.? j(sqrt).? j(log).? o(on).? ]}
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00:22:03 <jix> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <15> j(sp).? 'need more precision' (ee)'euler e' jc.? j(sqrt).? j(log).? o(on).? ]}
00:23:45 <jix> GregorR-L: bling
01:15:42 <GregorR-L> !glass {M[moO!j(JixMath)!<9>j(sqrt).?o(on).?]}
01:15:48 <GregorR-L> !glass {M[moO!j(JixMath)!<2>j(sqrt).?o(on).?]}
01:16:30 <jix> sqrt was easy we even learned the algorithm at school
01:16:37 <jix> log was more difficult
01:16:56 <GregorR-L> I don't know sqrt, I go to an inferior US school.
01:17:01 <GregorR-L> They barely teach us what sqrt is.
01:17:26 <GregorR-L> !glass {M[moO!aA!j(JixMath)!<2>j(sqrt).?0am.?o(on).?]}
01:17:59 * jix has to sleep now
01:18:09 <jix> ~8h sleep left
01:19:07 -!- jix has left (?).
01:32:17 * Sgep will be back later, all.
01:48:50 <marcan> glass really confuses me xD
01:48:53 <marcan> need to read the specs closely
02:03:08 <marcan> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <15> j(sp).? 'need more precision' (ee)'euler e' jc.? j(sqrt).? j(log).? o(on).? ]}
02:03:41 <marcan> EgoBot doesn't like me :(
02:03:58 <marcan> I take it JixMath.c(x) means retrieve constant x
02:05:09 <marcan> there is only a couple minutes lag
02:05:43 <marcan> !glass {M[m oO! "meh"o(o).?]}
02:06:17 <marcan> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! (ee)'euler e' o(on).? ]}
02:06:28 <marcan> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <15> j(sp).? (ee)'euler e' o(on).? ]}
02:06:39 <marcan> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <15> j(sp).? (ee)'euler e' jc.? o(on).? ]}
02:06:52 <marcan> !glass {M[m oO! j(JixMath)! <15> j(sp).? (pi)'euler e' jc.? o(on).? ]}
02:08:03 <marcan> GregorR-L: interestingly, the glass semantics sort of remind me of the python bytecode
02:08:11 <marcan> which works in a somewhat similar way
02:10:59 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
02:12:44 <marcan> if you've got python at hand, try this
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04:40:29 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
04:40:31 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01
04:41:26 <GregorR> (Back to way too much schoolwork)
05:26:45 <GregorR> OK, I can type slowly in Dvorak now :)
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05:39:01 <GregorR> That was an exciting conversation :-P
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06:36:34 * Arrogant is going to start experimenting with DS homebrewing
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08:15:37 <GregorR> Evoluent™ VerticalMouse™ 2: Right handed: $69.95, left handed: $99.95
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12:09:38 <jix> moin kipple
13:04:59 <jix> !glass {M[m j(JixMath)! <65> j(sqrt).? oO! o(on).?]}
13:05:24 <jix> !glass {M[m j(JixMath)! <1.25> j(sqrt).? oO! o(on).?]}
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13:14:45 <jix> moin klutzh
13:15:15 <klutzh> somebody set up us the bomb
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14:33:28 <jix> moin nooga
15:01:27 <fizzie> Few questions re Glass: 1) is /...\ the only control structure for conditional code; 2) are variables that start with an '_' somehow special (from normal local variables), or is it just some sort of convention; and 3) '*' is defined in the Wiki as "*: stack[0] = *stack[0], pop", but wouldn't that just dereference a pointer and then pop away the "returned" value?
15:05:04 <jix> fizzie: ignore the pops...
15:05:44 <jix> fizzie: (_something) is function-call-local (gets deleted after the call) (something) is instance local (afaik)
15:06:01 -!- SadolBot has joined.
15:06:13 <SadolBot> Infinite loops are forbidden ;p
15:06:42 <nooga> fizzie: how is it going with TTD Logics
15:09:00 <fizzie> nooga; Well, I did build a 4-bit adder (using 17 copies of the generic 2-input gate, and a crude copy-paste feature), and it succesfully computed for me that 1011 + 1001 = 10100. Currently I'm wondering if I should bother adding a "plant a logic gate here" tool to the user interface.
15:09:54 <fizzie> A friend of mine also complained about the lack of scenery in the 4-bit adder. With a "stick a logic gate here" tool I could build a more natural-looking one.
15:14:51 <fizzie> I was also thinking if I could redesign the generic logic gate to waste a bit less space. Currently I can only fit around ~2000 simple logic gates if I use the maximum-size (2048x2048) map. (Of course there's the fact that each gate needs a train to work, and the maximum number of trains is something like 80 - but openttd lets one increase that.)
15:25:40 <fizzie> I haven't really tested if using a large number of gates really works. It already takes two months (game-time, not real-time) for that four-bit adder to arrive at a result.
15:44:35 <fizzie> Meh. Seems that a Glass-to-Java-bytecode compiler isn't as straight-forward as I had hoped, thanks to all the pointers. It'd need to use a lot of reflection to understand pointers to methods and such. Although I guess in most cases the method calls look like "ab.?" and could be compiled into something less dynamic.
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15:45:36 <fizzie> Although this really isn't the appropriate time for that - should focus on the exam on Friday. Perhaps I'll look into this more during the weekend.
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16:53:49 <nooga> SAD!(2:i,210@i(2!+i"1 :i-i1
17:25:57 <jix> why not add sadol to egobot?
17:27:34 <nooga> SadolBot simply executes BDSM
17:27:46 <nooga> and returns the result
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17:45:50 <nooga> i've got binary search in SADOL ;p
17:48:11 <jix> egobot executes interpreters too
17:48:29 <jix> but they are all in one bot and you can kill hanging processes and it supports input
17:48:44 <jix> just ask GregorR to include bdsm into egobot
17:57:35 <nooga> SAD!(3:T$,2101,212,216,230,240,277,3123,3167,3236,3460~b2(6:t#_0:n#_1:l-01:h#t-01@>-hl1(2:i/+hl2?|<n#ti=n#ti:hi:li?=n#thh-01!bT,3167
17:57:48 <nooga> but without rounding ;p
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18:34:11 <nooga> http://www.regedit.risp.pl/BDSM/
18:34:36 <GregorR> Sadol doesn't support file I/O, does it?
18:36:15 <nooga> it doesn't support it
18:37:04 <nooga> but you always have < and > in bash
18:37:17 <GregorR> I wanted to make sure that it /didn't/.
18:37:27 <GregorR> I don't want any file-IO capable ones in EgoBot.
18:39:47 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
18:39:49 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sadol sceql udage01
18:40:10 <GregorR> !sadol (2:i,210@i(2!+i"1 :i-i1
18:40:51 <nooga> sleep 10s && kill ... ?
18:42:58 <GregorR> You see, EgoBot is just better than any other bot ever.
18:43:45 <GregorR> Plus, its output is a free IRC log for me :-P
18:43:52 <GregorR> (though without timestamps)
18:44:00 <nooga> !sadol !"6SAD!!sadol
18:44:01 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Too many symbols. End of file expected. (index:9,row:1,col:10)
18:44:16 <nooga> !sadol !",210SAD!!sadol
18:44:37 <GregorR> Also, it does not interpret its own output ;)
18:45:00 <nooga> !sadol !",213SAD!",6!sadol
18:45:40 <GregorR> Hmm, I'm getting Dvorak-confused :-P
18:45:44 <nooga> !sadol !",213SAD!!",6!sadol
18:45:47 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Too many symbols. End of file expected. (index:19,row:1,col:20)
18:45:58 <nooga> !sadol !",214SAD!!",6!sadol
18:46:47 <nooga> !sadol !",214SAD!!"6!sadol
18:46:49 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index:19,row:1,col:20)
18:46:53 <nooga> !sadol !",213SAD!!"6!sadol
18:46:57 <EgoBot> BDSM: Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index:0,row:1,col:1)
18:49:31 <nooga> now let's try to make it infinite
18:50:44 <GregorR> !glass {(FE)[eoO!sS!<34>s(ns).?"F!"oo.?0oo.?"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}"oo.?]}
18:50:55 <EgoBot> F!"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}
18:50:57 <EgoBot> F!"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}
18:50:59 <EgoBot> F!"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}
18:51:01 <EgoBot> F!"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}
18:51:03 <EgoBot> F!"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}
18:51:11 <GregorR> You see, it's not so tough ;)
18:52:21 <nooga> it's almost like a quine
18:52:46 <GregorR> Except that it calls another class, so it's actually nothing like a quine :P
18:53:07 <GregorR> s/calls another class/invokes a function in another class/
18:53:36 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"!glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
18:53:37 <EgoBot> !glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?"!glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)O!<34>(_s)(ns).?""1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}"1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?1(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?2(_o)o.?0(_o)o.?]}
18:55:05 <GregorR> Where's your sadol quine? :)
18:55:42 -!- mtve has joined.
18:56:00 <nooga> HAVEN'T GOT ONE ;/
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19:02:24 <nooga> jaro3000 : !sadol or SAD!
19:03:53 <nooga> (jaro3000 is my colleague)
19:11:07 <nooga> idk how to write a quine ;p
19:17:26 <GregorR> !glass {(FE)[eoO!sS!<34>s(ns).?"F!"oo.?0oo.?"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}"oo.?]}
19:17:36 <EgoBot> F!"!glass {M[mf(FE)!fe.?]}
19:19:51 <nooga> jaro3000 : how do you like glass ? ;p
19:20:32 <jaro3000> hmmm... lets look esolang.org :-) looks nice :-)
19:20:53 <nooga> imho glass is sooo cool ;p
19:21:23 <GregorR> Then name all my interpreters "ego"blah for some reason.l
19:28:06 <nooga> SAD!!",281we know, we'e got dominace, 'cause they think that we don't know we have dominace
19:28:07 <SadolBot> we know, we'e got dominace, 'cause they think that we don't know we have dominace
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20:18:20 <nooga> igottowriteaquineinsadoligottowriteaquineinsadoligottowriteaquineinsadoligottowriteaquineinsadoligottowriteaquineinsadol
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20:41:40 <nooga> !sadol !",215This is a quine
20:47:11 <nooga> !sadol @<:i+i1,211!",217wcale nie umiesz
20:47:12 <EgoBot> BDSM: Executing: Variable or function i not found (code,index:5,row:1,col:6)
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22:03:18 * Sgep needs to leave. Be back later today [my time, not yours]
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22:39:21 <GregorR-L> How are all the #esoteric'ers today?
22:42:38 * GregorR-L is still trying to get used to Dvorak...
23:03:47 <jix> should i implement cos in JixMath?
23:04:44 <jix> but if i hav cos sin is no problem
23:04:54 <jix> (or the other way around)
23:05:44 <jix> and tan and all the other trig functions are no problem too
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23:21:37 <GregorR-L> I'm switching KB layouts every 5 minutes :-P
23:34:06 <jix> i'm too tired to implement any trig functions
00:16:47 <fizzie> Hm. Wrote this Glass-to-Java-vm compiler a bit. Just realized it possibly breaks if someone does something like {(Foo)[f'body of function f'][g'body of g'][x fg*=]}{M[m (_f)(Foo)! (_f)x.? (_f)f.?]} since that last call would get compiled as a static call _f.f();
00:20:58 <GregorR-L> Is that available online somewhere?
00:21:22 <fizzie> Not yet. It really doesn't compile anything yet, but the way I was thinking of implementing that would break. It still needs a lot of work before it even manages to compile Glass to this intermediate language thing, and then I'd need to write the Java bytecode generation.
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00:26:14 <GregorR-L> I like the interest Glass is garnering.
00:27:19 <graue> I rather dislike it; steals interest away from ADJUST
00:29:06 <graue> say, why don't you add a class to the Glass standard library for interfacing with C?
00:29:16 <graue> then that could be used to provide a zlib class
00:31:17 <graue> that would make it *possible*
00:31:22 <graue> nobody is going to implement zlib in Glass
00:32:06 <graue> that would be a useless use of your time
00:32:24 <graue> I mean even by esoteric programming language standards that's useless
00:33:01 <graue> implementing libbz2 might be worth something, though
00:33:59 <GregorR-L> No, I was saying I just may implement a class to interface with C XD
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00:39:25 <jix> graue: i was thinking of implementing a range coder with a order-0 adaptive model in glass or axo
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00:44:39 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
00:44:41 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sadol sceql udage01
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01:05:23 <GregorR-L> graue (will hopefully read this later): I'll add ADJUST to EgoBot for you :)
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02:09:14 <Sgep> I will Be Back In A Bit
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06:06:35 <GregorR> Prng! (IMHO, r (in the American pronunciation) is a vowel)
06:07:19 <Robdgreat> but have never ever been able to find examples
06:07:23 <GregorR> W is a "hard vowel" so to speak.
06:07:26 <GregorR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-colored_vowel
06:08:10 <GregorR> W is equivilant to oo as in tool, but "hard" (IANALinguist, I don't know the right way to say that).
06:08:20 <GregorR> And y (as a consonant) is a hard ee
06:08:56 <GregorR> In an American accent, r is a vowel (it actually "colors" the previous vowel because linguists are silly), but in other accents/languages (Español), r is a consonant.
06:11:05 <GregorR> Oh, and the "r" as in "Rob" is sort of a hybrid, but more similar to the Español consonant r. R is only a vowel when it's not at the beginning of a syllable.
06:12:33 * GregorR wonders if he scared Robdgreat away :P
06:13:12 <GregorR> In that you don't believe me that R is a vowel?
06:13:38 <Robdgreat> I've always found linguistics/phonetics to be fascinating
06:14:11 <cpressey> sort of a nether region between vowels and consonants, from what i gather
06:15:42 <GregorR> Found the right word on Wikipedia: It's an approximant.
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06:19:50 <cpressey> my bad, w is a "glide". it's y that's the liquid
06:21:35 <cpressey> no. again, i'm wrong. it's l that's the liquid.
06:21:58 <cpressey> hmm, there's got to be some way to remember that... some.... mnemonic... of some sort.
06:36:21 <GregorR> New esolang: Xpacbugjt. It's Brainfuck when you forget you're using Dvorak :-P
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06:53:51 <nooga> emm... im writing solutions for Polish Olympiad in Informatics
06:54:48 <GregorR> !glass {F[f(_a)A!(_o)O!(_t)$(_n)1=,(_isle)(_n)*<2>(_a)(le).?=/(_isle)<1>^\(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_n)*<2>(_a)s.?(_t)f.?(_a)a.?]}{M[m(_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*<20>(_a)(le).?=\]}
06:54:52 <EgoBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
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07:12:35 <nooga> sadol! (3~f1(5:a0:b1:i2@|<i#_0=i#_0(2?%i2:b+ba:a+ab:i+i1?%#_02ba:l,220@:l-l1!+f-,220l"1
07:12:43 <nooga> !sadol (3~f1(5:a0:b1:i2@|<i#_0=i#_0(2?%i2:b+ba:a+ab:i+i1?%#_02ba:l,220@:l-l1!+f-,220l"1
07:12:45 <EgoBot> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181
07:13:58 <nooga> you should add execution time measuring in egobot
07:18:40 <Paragon> 2090. You know they changed the scale, right?
07:18:44 -!- Paragon has changed nick to Arrogant_.
07:19:30 <Arrogant_> Reading 730, Math 720, Writing 640
07:19:45 <Arrogant_> Math was rigged 'cause I'm a calculus student and the highest level of math is Algebra 1
07:19:58 <Arrogant_> nooga: Standardized test in America
07:20:17 <nooga> something like matura?
07:20:19 <Arrogant_> Your score was more impressive than mine then :D
07:20:33 <Robdgreat> yeah cuz I didn't have writing to drag it down
07:20:44 <Arrogant_> They give you 25 minutes to write an essay
07:21:02 <Robdgreat> yeah I helped grade a bunch of practice essays
07:21:25 <nooga> we've got 3 hours for writing and reading
07:21:33 <nooga> and 3 hours for math
07:21:47 <Arrogant_> nooga: That's even longer than ours
07:22:17 <Arrogant_> Is success based on luck or hard work
07:22:48 <nooga> 3 hours for english.....
07:23:21 <Arrogant_> They should've given us two essays to compare
07:24:01 <Arrogant_> Rhetorical strategies and compare and contrast and all that.
07:25:12 <GregorR> Does Gregor remember his SAT score ...
07:25:22 <GregorR> For that matter, does Gregor remember what he did on Monday?
07:25:55 <Robdgreat> Does Gregor remember what he had for lunch?
07:26:16 <Arrogant_> Does Gregor remember how to code Fibonacci numbers in Glass?
07:26:38 <GregorR> All of the answers: No, no, vaguely, yes.
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07:27:28 <GregorR> I registered www.intfall.org and am going to put up a big page on the scientific theory of Intelligent Falling.
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07:55:27 <Robdgreat> how long til mod_glass is available?
07:59:44 <GregorR> It'll probably never be mod_glass.
07:59:47 <GregorR> Just CGI support for Glass.
07:59:56 <GregorR> And in all technicality it's there, I just need a better CGI class :-P
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08:03:24 <nooga> i solved problem and wrote solution with O(m+n) complexity
08:03:54 <nooga> initially i wrote solution with O(m*n) complexity ;p
08:04:56 <GregorR> So, it solves any problem in 0 time.
08:05:51 <nooga> O(-1) solves the problem before i read it ;p
08:07:27 <GregorR> O(-infinity) solves the problem before the big bang.
08:11:39 <nooga> im still trying to write a quine in sadol ;p
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08:37:39 <nooga> every lisp quine uses lambda function ;p
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15:27:13 <GregorR> Pinggggggggggggggggggggggg
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00:16:40 <GregorR-L> I'm beginning to get the hang of Dvorak :)
00:17:22 <GregorR-L> I'm still slow, but I'm basically accurate
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02:03:27 <duerig> You interested in taking a peek at a new esoteric language? I just put it on the esolang wiki and am looking for feedback about it.
02:03:53 <kipple> I've looked briefly at it
02:04:31 <kipple> a really comprehensive article too :)
02:04:44 <kipple> probably one of the biggest on the wiki
02:04:50 <duerig> Hahaha. Yeah. I basically uploaded my design document and wiki-fied it.
02:05:09 <duerig> But I've made some changes to hopefully make it easier to comprehend for others.
02:06:00 <kipple> I noticed the article didn't say who invented it, or when. would you mind adding that?
02:06:03 <duerig> This is also my first submission on the wiki, though I've been lurking for a while.
02:06:18 <kipple> you don't have to use your real name if you don't want to
02:06:31 <kipple> but it is nice to have something at least
02:07:28 <klutzy> my fingers something wrong
02:08:21 <duerig> Oh. For a second I thought there was some new language using the a and '?'. Hahaha
02:12:44 <duerig> I now have an account, and have attributed the invention of 'Rail' to it.
02:13:24 <duerig> Thanks for reminding me of that.
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02:21:18 <duerig> btw, kipple, if you feel like playing around with the interpreter at all, there is a quick-and-dirty interactive mode which lets you see the program counter move around as you step through the program.
02:21:37 <kipple> I was just looking at the usage info :)
02:23:26 <duerig> Ah. Nifty. The trick is to define a special input and output file because the interactive mode takes over stdin and stdout.
02:24:45 <kipple> what does this mean? "Any number of lines may precede the one with the '$' on the far left."
02:24:57 <kipple> that you can write comments and such on lines above the $?
02:25:08 <duerig> And they don't matter.
02:25:27 <duerig> You can write comments in the code itself if they are surrounded by whitespace.
02:26:22 <duerig> I should rephrase that so its clearer.
02:26:39 <kipple> it shouldn't be under the hello world example
02:26:51 <duerig> Ok. *scribbles down a note*
02:27:08 <kipple> IMHO it should be wherever you talk about the $
02:29:44 <kipple> can you have more than one?
02:30:49 <duerig> Nifty. I'm taking notes on your questions. Then I can add fixes to the article appropriately later on.
02:31:07 <kipple> hehe: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Longpages
02:31:42 <duerig> Wow. I'm only beat out by bf constants.
02:32:04 <duerig> I suppose this is a consequence of designing a maximalist kind of language.
02:32:47 <kipple> I don't understand this sentence "The universal junction, '*', allows a train entering in any direction to leave in the opposite direction."
02:33:03 <kipple> that sounds just like @ to me (and that has to be wrong)
02:33:15 <duerig> Enter from east. Leaves to west, for instance.
02:33:20 <duerig> I'll make that clearer.
02:33:56 <kipple> entering from east and leaving to the west is just going straight forward...
02:34:05 <duerig> Yeah. That is basically it.
02:34:17 <duerig> The confusion is that enter and leave are opposites.
02:34:25 <duerig> So two opposites cancel each other out.
02:34:35 <duerig> And that is my awkward phrasing. Haha.
02:34:38 <duerig> I'll be sure to fix taht.
02:35:13 <kipple> I though those junctions were supposed to be used for control flow
02:35:22 <kipple> but they don't do they?
02:35:24 <duerig> The junctions for control flow are the y-junctions.
02:35:34 <duerig> The other junctions are just for passing through.
02:35:36 <kipple> yeah, I read a bit further and saw that
02:35:39 <duerig> Like the skip instruction in PATH.
02:35:52 <duerig> On the list of things to fix. Thanks. You are being most helpful!
02:37:07 <kipple> have you played transport tycoon?
02:38:04 <kipple> it's a rail building game
02:38:07 <duerig> I played railroad tycoon obsessively for a while, though. And a-train.
02:38:19 <duerig> Those are older, I believe.
02:38:28 <duerig> But that kind of thing is how I envision it. :)
02:38:42 <kipple> there was a guy here who posted screenshots of logic circuits made with Transport Tycoon some days ago
02:38:54 <duerig> Interesting coincidence.
02:38:57 <kipple> or the Open source clone, I think
02:39:13 <duerig> Hmm. That would be quite interesting. I'll have to google for it.
02:45:28 <kipple> is true and false 't' and 'f' or 0 and 1 (or both)?
02:48:03 <duerig> The command to push true is 't'. The command to push false is 'f'.
02:48:20 <duerig> The actual representations on the stack are "1" and "0" respectively.
02:48:24 <duerig> That is a bit confusing.
02:48:32 <duerig> What do you suggest I do about it?
02:48:33 <kipple> so you can push 0 and 1 if you want to instead?
02:48:43 <duerig> In fact the digits just push themselves on the stack.
02:51:00 <fizzie> http://gehennom.org/~fis/ttd_logic/, if you're interested.
02:52:33 <fizzie> (It's ~05 am in this time-zone, so I'll probably be asleep soon.)
02:53:33 <duerig> Wow. It is night here.
02:54:00 <duerig> Y'all must be half way around the world.
02:55:40 <kipple> how do you duplicate the top of the stack?
02:56:29 <duerig> With variables. One of the examples I give is a function called 'dup' which does that.
02:56:43 <duerig> I don't have it inbuilt 'cuz you can do it with other primitives. :)
02:56:55 <duerig> Same with swap, drop, and other stack operations.
02:58:09 <duerig> Thanks for the link, fizzie. It looks very interesting.
02:58:27 <duerig> Vaguely similar to my efforts a while ago to implement Brainfuck in ZZT.
02:58:32 <duerig> Though more successful.
03:03:08 <duerig> I'll have to try out open transport tycoon deluxe. It looks fun.
03:03:34 <fizzie> It needs the datafiles from the commercial game, though.
03:03:51 <fizzie> I've been thinking about optimizing the space-usage of the constructs a bit, and then adding a "plant an and/or/xor gate here in this direction" tool to OpenTTD gui. I already got complaints about the 4-bit adder being too unnatural-looking and lacking scenery.
03:04:40 <fizzie> (Those are available at some "abandonware"-type sites, with dubious legality.) Erh, exam-day tomorrow. I sleeps now. ->
03:04:43 <duerig> Though proving that it can be done gets you lots of coolness points.
03:08:28 <kipple> gotta get some sleep too. bye
03:36:45 <duerig> I'm the guy who just added 'rail' to the esolang wiki. So I'm hanging out here trying to get people to glance at it and give me feeback.
03:36:53 <duerig> On the language or how its presented in the article.
03:38:19 <GregorR> Haven't tried it yet, though.
03:38:43 <duerig> Well, let me know if you do. Negative feedback or positive feedback, both are helpful.
03:40:16 <duerig> I was interested to note that the method of distinguishing various multi-character stuff is similar to that of rail.
03:40:31 <duerig> But I really like the combination of oo with an explicit stack.
03:43:11 <duerig> Yet more proof that a language designer can be evil in any paradigm. Haha.
03:45:45 <duerig> btw, what is the EgoBot?
03:46:06 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"I run code!"(_o)o.?]}
03:47:14 <duerig> !brainfuck >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
03:47:35 <duerig> What languages does the EgoBot run?
03:47:42 <duerig> !bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
03:47:56 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
03:47:59 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sadol sceql udage01
03:48:27 <duerig> How does it do 2l? I thought that was a 2d language?
03:49:14 <GregorR> !glass http://pastebin.ca/raw/26890
03:49:25 <EgoBot> I run code from URLs too!
03:49:25 <GregorR> I need to make sub-help, show just shows the current output buffer ;)
03:50:06 <duerig> Awesome *shakes the EgoBot's hand*.
03:50:28 <duerig> What is the EgoBot programmed in? Tell me bf and I'll be really impressed. :-)
03:50:31 <GregorR> You could shake my hand, since I wrote it :-P
03:51:14 * duerig awards GregorR 7 coolness points.
03:52:07 <duerig> C++ is my language of choice. You might say that I'm a C++ weenie.
03:52:36 <GregorR> I switch between C and C++ for non-web-based things.
03:52:49 <GregorR> Some programs are better for a structural approach, others for an OO approach *shrugs*
03:52:50 <duerig> I'm one of those poor souls who actually has a copy of the standard and refers to it.
03:54:04 <GregorR> Oh, and 2L too (since you mentioned it) :P
03:55:34 <duerig> Rail is my first esoteric language.
03:56:49 <GregorR> Oh, don't worry: Soon enough you'll have four and be able to say "Wow, that was a waste of my life" :-P
03:58:50 <duerig> Hahaha. I actually feel like I am learning a lot. One of my research interests is programming languages and compilers. It is really interesting to write an interpreter for such non-traditional languages.
03:59:23 <GregorR> BTW, look at Glass for an example of how not to write an interpreter.
03:59:50 <duerig> Also, it helps give me flexibility. Too much time spent programming in C++ blinds you to alternative ways of doing things.
04:00:13 <duerig> What did you do that is bad?
04:00:36 <GregorR> Well, the /process/ is sound, but the code is overly complex and not very cohesive :P
04:01:05 <lament> too much time spent programming in C++ also rots your brain
04:01:27 <GregorR> OMGWTF Python SUX0RZ ROFLMAOOLOLOLOLOL
04:01:41 <duerig> What is your language of choice, lament?
04:01:53 <lament> duerig: Python SUX0RZ :)
04:02:07 <GregorR> It's a local dialect of Python.
04:02:17 <GregorR> It's basically Python translated to AOL n00b speak.
04:02:21 <lament> at least, python is what i actually write stuff in. Haskell, Smalltalk or whatever is what i would use if i were smarter.
04:03:09 <duerig> *crosses himself* You shouldn't mention the term 'Haskell'. Just refer to it as the 'Scottish language'. Don't you know that it is evil? That it is cursed?!?!? :-)
04:03:34 <duerig> Yeah. Any language with more than four arrow operators is automatically cursed.
04:04:11 <lament> that seems kinda arbitrary
04:04:19 <lament> anyway, in haskell anything can be an operator
04:04:22 <duerig> Actually, I can't program in it because it is hard to wrap my head around programming with lazy execution.
04:04:26 <lament> so it doesn't really matter what is and what isn't
04:04:36 <lament> and yes, i can't program in it either
04:04:41 <lament> which is why i said, "if i were smarter"
04:05:47 <duerig> I haven't really used Smalltalk.
04:06:31 <lament> yeah but ocaml is like haskell for dummies.
04:06:56 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:07:43 -!- Arrogant has joined.
04:07:46 <duerig> I once took a class on 'practical functional programming'. We were allowed to choose our own language for the course. Only one person was brave enough to pick Haskell. He showed us his code once and all our eyes bugged out.
04:08:15 <lament> what did everyone else choose, C++?
04:08:30 <duerig> btw, GregorR, I think its funny that you use 'Klass' for class. Makes sense, but funny.
04:09:05 <duerig> Oh. Since the class was about functional programming languages, we had to choose one of those. About half the class picked Scheme and the other half picked OCaml.
04:09:16 <GregorR> duerig: Well, class is reserved :-P
04:09:29 <Arrogant> Haskell is a great language though.
04:09:31 <duerig> Yeah. I know. I probably would have done something like 'ClassT'.
04:09:34 <lament> but for any actual work, it's so incredibly verbose
04:09:37 <duerig> But that is just my bias.
04:09:42 <duerig> Your solution makes sense. :)
04:10:00 <lament> scheme and haskell are both conceptually pretty, but scheme is ugly in practice
04:10:17 <duerig> I just have a fundamental allergy to dynamic typing.
04:10:20 <lament> (or maybe that's just me)
04:10:28 <duerig> If I can't say 'that is a list' to the compiler, I always feel like I have to check.
04:10:29 <lament> duerig: me too. That's why I prefer Python.
04:10:37 <lament> i thought you said static :P
04:10:58 <lament> don't bother looking at smalltalk, then
04:11:16 <duerig> Arrogant, interested in giving me feedback about a new esoteric language?
04:11:41 <duerig> lament, it is ok when I'm making something small, but it feels more cumbersome to me when making something large.
04:12:03 <lament> large things consist of small things :)
04:12:28 <GregorR> A good software engineer, lament.
04:12:33 <duerig> No. Large things consist of combinations of small things. Is the n choose 2 possible combinations that scare me. :)
04:12:37 <GregorR> A good software engineer, lament is.
04:13:01 <lament> duerig: in short, programming sucks.
04:13:12 <duerig> Hahaha. But I'm addicted.
04:13:12 <lament> whichever solution you use, it's still crappy
04:13:19 <duerig> It is like heroine. Too late for me now. :)
04:13:21 <lament> dynamic typing is a mess
04:13:24 <lament> static typing is a pain
04:14:07 <duerig> Yeah. I like static typing, but that is just because it seems too evil.
04:14:38 <lament> static typing forces you to think about the types
04:14:51 <lament> which forces you to design the program in a certain way
04:15:00 <duerig> I've just had a great idea for a new esoteric language! This would be evil because it would force you to qualify everything with a type, but wouldn't check the types! It'd be the worst of both worlds! Hahaha
04:15:02 <lament> which might not be pleasant or smart
04:15:43 <lament> each variable must have at least four type qualifiers
04:15:54 <lament> short long static volatile int *foo;
04:16:14 <lament> foo = (short long static volatile int *) 42;
04:16:19 <lament> print foo; // prints 42
04:16:31 <lament> cast is required of course.
04:16:49 <lament> duerig: i think that language already exists
04:17:25 <GregorR> You can rag on C all you want, it's still a great language for structured programming.
04:17:50 <duerig> Actually, regarding the dynamic vs. static typing thing, The esoteric language I just created is dynamically typed, but I wrote it in C++ because I prefer static types.
04:17:56 <duerig> Which is a bit ironic.
04:18:15 <lament> duerig: i bet i could write an interpreter in Python faster than you wrote it in C++!
04:18:40 <duerig> But I bet that after I wrote my interpreter in C++ I could change it easier.
04:18:54 <lament> I bet not! because your interpreter is statically typed!
04:19:05 <GregorR> .................................
04:19:06 <lament> you would have the extra work of having to change the types
04:19:20 <duerig> Don't mean to start a language war.
04:19:22 <GregorR> Whether in Python or C++, it's bad practice to change a=7 to a="blah".
04:20:02 <lament> GregorR: it might be good sometimes.
04:20:38 <lament> (every time hoping that maybe this time it will be good)
04:20:45 <GregorR> Give me an example of a /good/ --- :P
04:21:04 <lament> hell i even change loop indices to strings because it's prettier that way.
04:21:42 <GregorR> for (i = "zero"; strless(i, "ten"); strplusplus(i)) { ... }
04:21:54 <duerig> lament, you should try my esolang Rail. It is like forth but without all that pesky 'efficiency' stuff.
04:22:11 <lament> duerig: have you looked at False?
04:22:19 <Arrogant> GregorR: I love how incredibly off that is!
04:22:29 <lament> duerig: and where's your esolang?
04:23:08 <duerig> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Rail
04:23:20 <duerig> Forth is actually just one of the influences.
04:23:26 <duerig> I've looked at False. Looking again.
04:23:42 <GregorR> F! "I wish I was part of EgoBot!"
04:24:31 <lament> wow, Rail seems complicated.
04:24:57 <lament> F! "I wish people would stop putting words in my mouth!"
04:24:57 <falsebot> I wish people would stop putting words in my mouth!
04:25:19 <duerig> Its just forth in a 2-dimensional language with lists, closures, and GC tacked on. Hahaha
04:25:43 <lament> forth with lists and closures
04:26:59 <lament> definitely have a look at it
04:27:02 <GregorR> lament: "Shaking" yes is nodding ;)
04:27:14 <lament> because it's forth with closures, lists and GC tacked on
04:27:22 <lament> there's a channel for it somewhere
04:27:24 <lament> called sometihng stupid
04:27:35 <lament> #concatenative i think
04:27:58 <lament> it's very one-dimensional though
04:27:58 <duerig> Oh. But Rail is two-dimensional too.
04:28:03 <duerig> But now I feel less creative. :)
04:28:05 <lament> reminds of Forth and Scheme at the same time. Pretty neat.
04:28:24 <lament> (and of course a huge pain to deal with because of the goddamn stack!)
04:28:24 <duerig> Cool. I'm bookmarking the page.
04:28:35 <duerig> Hahaha. Stacks are fun.
04:29:03 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
04:29:08 <duerig> That is the essence of a good esolang. Fun, but inconvenient. :)
04:29:28 <duerig> I think that is why there are so many stack-based esolangs.
04:29:30 <wildhalcyon> battle of the bots.. when'd sadol join in the fun?
04:30:11 * GregorR defers wildhalcyon to the logs ;)
04:30:15 <lament> duerig: no, i think that's why there's so few flat-random-access-memory esolangs, and so many esolangs with all other possible memory setups
04:30:46 * wildhalcyon avoids the many days of logs he's missed due to reasons which he loathes
04:31:19 <lament> wildhalcyon: oh yeah, the bots. There's falsebot, and there's the impostors.
04:31:31 <lament> EgoBot and SadolBot, ignore them, they're evil
04:31:43 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
04:31:46 <EgoBot> 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sadol sceql udage01
04:31:49 <duerig> Now all we need is some form of corewars. Where bots try to get other bots to execute inimical programs.
04:32:01 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"OMG I can interpret so many languages (including sadol)!"(_o)o.?]}
04:32:05 <EgoBot> OMG I can interpret so many languages (including sadol)!
04:32:06 <lament> duerig: i was thinking of actually having something like corewars here
04:32:27 <lament> but corewars itself would likely not be too popular
04:33:10 <lament> maybe a bot conducting a computer rock-paper-scissor competition among user-submitted programs.
04:33:20 <wildhalcyon> I think it would be an interesting exercise to write a looping quine from the bots - bot 1 outputs the commands for bot 2 which... outputs the commands for bot n, which outputs the original command to bot 1
04:33:22 <lament> But then those programs would all have to be written in some specific language
04:33:32 <GregorR> AHHHHHHH, FYB FYB FFYB FYB FYB!!!!!
04:33:53 <lament> wildhalcyon: we already had that
04:34:16 <lament> (it cheated by using variables)
04:34:32 <falsebot> Error: Argument to ! is not a function
04:34:36 <wildhalcyon> Did the bots get bored with it eventually?
04:34:45 <duerig> btw, wildhalcyon, interested in giving feedback on a new esoteric language?
04:35:26 <duerig> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Rail
04:36:05 <wildhalcyon> Ah, I saw that on the wiki earlier.. didn't have time to do much more than scroll down the page
04:36:18 <wildhalcyon> Reminds me a bit of spiral, only.. I think this might be designed a little better
04:37:18 <wildhalcyon> Not that I believe any esolang has design as a fundamental criterion. Except maybe Piet. Esolang-as-art!
04:38:17 <duerig> Spiral is nifty. You have to hand it to any language which can make the "Hello, World!" program actually look like hello, world.
04:39:51 <duerig> Well, one of my design criterion for Rail was that it had to allow for functional abstraction. Hence actual variable names and function names.
04:40:24 <duerig> Which means that in theory you can do something big with it.
04:40:36 <duerig> But currently it is as slow as Gehenna, so it may not be practical to do so. :)
04:40:41 <wildhalcyon> Yeah, functions are nifty sometimes. They're like socially acceptable gotos
04:41:12 <duerig> I think Gehenna is the frozen hell, so I'd think it'd be slow. :)
04:41:31 <wildhalcyon> Hmm.. Im always getting my hells mixed up.
04:42:19 <duerig> I figure, I'll learn all I need to know about that after I'm dead, so why memorize it now? :-)
04:43:05 <wildhalcyon> Its nice to know where I'll be going, is all
04:43:31 <duerig> True. But I plan on a deathbed conversion so I go to the good place. :)
04:43:41 <duerig> I just haven't decided which deathbed conversion to go with.
04:43:49 <wildhalcyon> I don't think I'll end up in the cold one. I forget what you had to do to get there...
04:44:18 <wildhalcyon> "To the faiths of the world: I accept you"
04:46:14 <wildhalcyon> There's a lot of "except that ones" that I would list... there's only a few religions I feel comfortable associating myself with in any kind of conversionary way - even for the last few minutes of my life
04:46:55 <duerig> Maybe just say "God, in these last minutes I accept the true faith. You know the one..."
04:46:58 <Arrogant> I'm an Atheist so I don't really associate with any of them actively.
04:47:28 <wildhalcyon> Arrogant: Im talking from a social point of view, not personal
04:47:52 <wildhalcyon> I don't want to die knowing that people were under the impression I thought scientology was in any way an okay religion
04:48:09 <Arrogant> Scientology is a science fiction cult
04:49:09 <duerig> Be careful what you say... they might show up at your door with pitchforks and subpoenas. :-)
04:49:31 <GregorR> "The difference between Scientology and Christian Science is that Scientology is Sci-Fi and christian science is Fantasy." - Gregor Richards
04:51:07 <wildhalcyon> Anyhow, right now I am *happily* agnostic, and a few religions have threatened that I shall not experience eternal life (i.e. no hell - just lack of existence if I deny jesus), which - as a partial atheist, doesnt exactly inspire fear.
04:51:31 <GregorR> High five for empirical agnosticism!
04:51:49 <GregorR> "Agnosticism isn't sitting on the fence you stupid bastards!" - Gregor Richards
04:52:02 <duerig> Haha. I was in a meeting of atheists a while ago. We talked about how to expand our 'religion', we should find agnostics and try to convert them. Hahaha
04:52:17 <Arrogant> I wish to meet this Gregor Richards fellow, he is a brilliant man
04:52:24 <wildhalcyon> lol duerig. Actually, it might help to have an atheist religious text.
04:52:24 <GregorR> Weak atheism and empirical agnosticism are the same thing.
04:52:39 <GregorR> (From different viewpoints)
04:53:00 <Arrogant> It's one thing to talk to someone about it, but ACTIVELY CONVERTING PEOPLE is like, evil.
04:53:49 <GregorR> I should point out right now that people are inherantly agnostic, only conversion while growing up (and some natural human tendencies) sways them back and forth on the theism plane ;)
04:54:25 <wildhalcyon> Im changing my religion. On paper at least.
04:54:47 <Arrogant> I know some people who have changed their religion drastically within the past few years several times
04:55:02 <Arrogant> They should try to think for themselves
04:55:11 <duerig> Arrogant, I agree with you that evangelism is evil. It was all joking.
04:55:27 <wildhalcyon> no, actually, its a branch of christianity I would rather not mention. Im doing it to make my marriage a little "easier" on the in-laws.
04:55:40 <GregorR> So, this is a godless bunch :-P
04:56:19 <wildhalcyon> Not godless, gregor, just unguided through the darkness. Part of making esolangs, I guess: you've got to have an open mind to wonder about the possibilities.
04:56:26 <duerig> True. It was just a joke based on the christian myth that the atheists would 'convert' their children.
04:56:45 <Arrogant> Atheists are not tied together by common faith like religious
04:56:46 <duerig> That is a good way to put it.
04:57:04 <duerig> The atheist says that to see is to believe. But the agnostic says we are blind.
04:57:35 <Arrogant> I completely hit enter without completing the thought
04:57:53 <GregorR> Usually you just partially hit enter on an incomplete thought?
04:58:05 <Arrogant> Keyboard isn't pressure sensitive
04:58:27 <wildhalcyon> Would partial-enter make sense if it were?
04:59:17 <Arrogant> If you assign a function to something, it can make sense.
04:59:29 <wildhalcyon> Part of my agnosticism stems from the fact that I think everything will be alright if Im wrong.
04:59:56 <Arrogant> I can't be agnostic because I actively disbelieve in divinity and the supernatural.
05:00:17 <Arrogant> There's a difference between disbelief and nonbelief.
05:01:06 <Arrogant> You can not belief something, or you can belief that something is not.
05:01:44 <wildhalcyon> Hmm, I suppose I can see the difference, but I think its largely semantics
05:02:17 <GregorR> It's a very significant difference.
05:02:30 <wildhalcyon> I have trouble discussing religion with christians, or any of the judaic-tradition religions
05:03:05 <wildhalcyon> Not really with atheists though. I admit, Im not really an atheist because I actively "do not know", but I understand them.
05:03:58 <GregorR> There is no such thing as knowledge.
05:04:05 <duerig> I tend to think that doubt is one of the cardinal virtues. Always fear those who are without doubt.
05:04:16 <Arrogant> GregorR: I've had some terribly huge debates on the existance of truth.
05:04:47 <Arrogant> There are two truths, personal truth and reality.
05:05:23 <Arrogant> I am partially agnostic because I can admit that there is a possibility of such an existance
05:05:55 <GregorR> Hmm, I would point out that we only presume that reality exists based on perception, and it's unknowable whether our perceptions accuratly describe reality, or if reality even exists.
05:05:56 <Arrogant> But I believe that this is such an incredibly small possibility that it is nothing to consider.
05:05:57 <duerig> I'm of the other side. Absolute truth exists. But I tend to get along well with relativists because I recognize that finding that absolute truth is nontrivial.
05:06:34 <duerig> It is far more common for someone to have a false certainty then it is for them to have a correct one.
05:06:58 <Arrogant> Absolute truth is how things are in realition to "existance"
05:07:10 <GregorR> I don't think anybody is denying whether absolute truth /exists/, merely whether we are capable of attaining it.
05:07:56 <GregorR> Now, let me turn the conversation again with this challenge:
05:08:00 <duerig> We are capable of attaining it. But it is always more complex than many suspect.
05:08:00 <Arrogant> There are plenty of people that I've talked to that don't believe in an absolute truth and that it depends upon personal truth.
05:08:15 <GregorR> Give me a rational reason for the illegalization of consensual bestiality.
05:08:26 <Arrogant> We are capable of attaining it, but we can never COMPLETELY CONFIRM it's correctness.
05:08:37 <Arrogant> That we can be pretty damned sure is great.
05:08:52 <duerig> Reason is not a method for discovering truth. It is a method for discarding falsehood.
05:09:50 <wildhalcyon> Gregor: we have no way to ascertain the "consensuality" of the bestiality. How do we know that's what the sheep desires?
05:10:13 <duerig> GregorR, the transfer of disease from pets/livestock to humans is a major source of concern for world health. Sexual congress increases the likelyhood of the crossover of a disease.
05:10:14 <GregorR> wildhalcyon: Hmm, when a sheep becomes erect and mounts something, it's pretty obvious.
05:11:29 <GregorR> duerig: I don't know if I agree with that ... most of the diseases which are compatible between humans and animals are not viruses, but are caused by something else (prions, etc), and are therefore not so easy to communicate ...
05:12:03 <wildhalcyon> gregor - in that same manner, an older woman having sex with a minor wouldn't be illegal, but it is, and for rational reasons
05:12:20 <Arrogant> It would be pretty hard to have sex with a bird
05:12:36 <GregorR> wildhalcyon: The reason why a minor can't concent is because said minor is not sexually mature.
05:12:46 <GregorR> THe animal (presumably) would be sexually mature.
05:13:25 <GregorR> No, it's not, 18+ is just arbitrary. It is not immoral for a 16-yr-old sexually mat--- exactly.
05:13:57 <Arrogant> Mental maturity isn't there in most people until much later, if ever.
05:14:18 <GregorR> Your "if ever" defeated your argument ;)
05:14:40 <GregorR> A 32 year old star of Jackass is allowed to procreate ;)
05:14:58 <wildhalcyon> Now, before I start picturing goats mounting gregor, I must go to bed
05:15:15 <Arrogant> So clearly mental maturity isn't the main concern
05:15:22 <GregorR> Just thought I'd put that question out there, since I was asked it today XD
05:15:32 <Arrogant> Age of concent isn't 18 though.
05:15:49 <GregorR> And one /hot/ goat if I might add.
05:16:13 <duerig> Dear heavens. I fear we have departed somewhat from the topic of esoteric languages.
05:16:37 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]").
05:16:55 <GregorR> duerig: I'll write an esoteric programming language that relates procreation with animals to transfer of information, then it'll be on topic.
05:17:58 <duerig> Argh!! *flees in terror*
05:19:11 <Arrogant> duerig: The topic of esoteric languages is hard to stay on
05:19:40 <GregorR> (In Romania, bestial porn is legal and sold commonly)
05:19:59 <GregorR> One of those countries up there.
05:20:29 <Arrogant> Why I ever wikipedia'd pornography is beyond me
05:22:22 <GregorR> You just answered your own question ;)
05:22:30 <Arrogant> http://www.whahay.net/pubaccess/sonic3d.gif <- OCRemix put this up as the title-screen for Sonic 3D: Flickie's Island (European Sonic 3D Blast)
05:25:48 <GregorR> Want to design a site for me? ;)
05:25:54 <Arrogant> Making things compatible is just awful.
05:26:10 <Arrogant> At least with coding you have conditional compile.
05:26:18 <Arrogant> You have to use hacks to make CSS do the right things in different browsers.
05:26:50 <duerig> That is why I design for firefox exclusively. If someone wants to use a crappy old browser, then I say screw 'em. :-)
05:27:11 <Arrogant> Well, Opera 8 is a very respectable browser
05:27:13 <Robdgreat> I had someone tell me that regarding IE
05:27:16 <Arrogant> And there are STILL discrepensies
05:27:25 <Arrogant> IE really was the best browser for a while
05:27:47 <Arrogant> IE is still the MOST USED BROWSER so you have to take it into consideration
05:27:57 <Robdgreat> right. but it's not the ONLY browser
05:28:02 <Robdgreat> so it's not the sole consideration
05:28:22 <Arrogant> No. No browser should be the soul consideration.
05:28:50 <Arrogant> Although I think it's legitimate to say "fuck old browsers"
05:28:56 <duerig> Nah. If I support people using shoddy old browsers like IE, they'll just keep using them. This way I'm helping build the future.
05:28:57 <Arrogant> I don't want to have to design for IE5
05:29:06 <duerig> OTOH, I don't think anyone but me ever reads my websites. Hahaha
05:29:12 <Arrogant> duerig: If you're doing professional web design...
05:29:26 <Arrogant> There are people who still use IE4
05:29:47 <GregorR> Arrogant: IE4 ... on HPUX :)
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05:33:56 <duerig> Hmmm... Arrogant Paragon.
05:35:21 <duerig> btw, Arrogant, have I already tried to get you to take a look at my esolang and give me comments?
05:35:54 <duerig> Yeah. I guess I have. :)
05:35:55 <Arrogant_> I took a look. Looks horridly complicated.
05:36:15 <duerig> Oh well. It is actually pretty intuitive once you start messing with it.
05:36:33 <duerig> But there are definitely a lot of commands and such.
05:36:50 <Arrogant_> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Styrofoam By the way.
05:40:20 <duerig> The scary thing about Rail, btw, is that it is the second longest article in the whole wiki now.
05:40:24 <duerig> I don't know how that happened.
05:40:44 <duerig> But the only thing that beats it is the page on brainfuck constants. Which is *huge*.
05:41:02 <duerig> Ok. Maybe not *huge*, but pretty big.
05:42:39 <Arrogant_> http://www.patmedia.net/marklevinson/cool/cool_illusion.html
05:45:34 <duerig> OTOH, how do we know that there is no green dot? It could be evil! :-)
05:49:23 <duerig> Never give up! Never surrender!
05:49:28 <duerig> And knowing is half the battl!
05:50:46 <duerig> Someone should come up with an esolang based on cliches!
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05:56:07 <duerig> I need a bot too. Then I can have a foil for my clever lines.
05:56:16 <duerig> And a laugh track! I want a laugh track!
05:57:15 <GregorR> duerig: I could add Rail to EgoBot.
05:57:58 <duerig> Yeah. That would probably be pretty easy. I was thinking more on the lines of someone I could send a clever insult to and they would say 'Oh, Yeah?!?', making me look better. ;-)
05:58:15 <Robdgreat> HAHAhahahaha ahahhahaha a ahahaha ahahaha HAHAHHAHAHAH hahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
05:58:24 <duerig> Good. *tips Robdgreat*
05:59:03 * Robdgreat tries to use the slug in a gumball machine.
06:00:17 <Robdgreat> actually, a laugh track function wouldn't be too difficult
06:02:15 <duerig> Probably not, but in reality it would get on everyone's nerves in a bit. Someone would say 'My grandma died last night' and the laugh track would say 'ROFL DUD3!!!!'
06:08:28 -!- Arrogant has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The dawn of a new IRC era").
06:17:02 <GregorR> Rail doesn't support any file I/O, does it?
06:22:01 <GregorR> AFAICT it doesn't, I hope that's the case :P
06:22:08 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
06:22:10 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
06:22:23 <GregorR> !adjust http://www.esolangs.org/files/adjust/src/hell.aj
06:26:06 <EgoBot> Use: help [command] Function: displays help on a command, or lists commands
06:28:52 <duerig> Do you have a distaste for file I/O?
06:28:56 <GregorR> I can't add languages with file I/O to EgoBot ;)
06:29:31 <duerig> Nope. The only kinds of special output that happens is error messages.
06:29:53 <duerig> What do you do for stdin and stdout on the egobot?
06:30:02 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
06:30:09 <GregorR> Stdout just displays to the channel.
06:30:56 <duerig> !rail $-[blah]o-# 'main'
06:31:17 <duerig> That may be a bug in my code.
06:31:25 <duerig> !rail $-[blah]o-#'main'
06:34:19 <duerig> Ah. So I've verified it isn't the function parser.
06:34:26 <duerig> So that means it is probably the movement.
06:36:51 <duerig> Its not a code bug. It was a mind bug.
06:37:08 <duerig> The '$' is essentially a junction. Which means that you can't change direction when going through it.
06:37:56 <duerig> This unfortunately means that all rail code must be done through url.
06:42:21 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/26896
06:42:34 <EgoBot> Internal Error: Crash: No 'main' function found
06:43:31 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/26896
06:43:47 <duerig> How does it tell the difference between a url and a program?
06:45:19 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/26896
06:47:54 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/26896
06:49:29 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/26896
06:49:34 <EgoBot> rats-live-on-no-evil-star-
06:50:13 <duerig> Thanks for integrating rail into EgoBot.
07:03:43 <duerig> Let me know if you run across any defects or potential improvements in the rail language or docs. I'll be idling here for a while. Also, there is a webform on my user page on the wiki that will send me a message.
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08:11:39 <GregorR> Does this not set a to a times b, and increment b? The postfix operator has higher precedence than the equal, so it would return the current value of a and increment, but then the a = would set it back to the newly calculated value.
08:33:13 <duerig> This is explicitly stated in the C standard IIRC.
08:33:42 <duerig> In fact, I think a = b++ + b++ is also undefined.
08:33:49 <duerig> Meaning that it is implementation-dependant what happens.
08:35:59 <GregorR> It seems to me like the simple presedence would prescribe that a=a++ has no effect.
08:36:16 <GregorR> Unless the postfix is actually applied after the entire equation ... which makes even less sense ...
08:40:15 <duerig> The time of the postfix is unspecified. All that is required is that it is applied before the end of the line and after the use of the variable.
08:40:47 <duerig> C specifically leaves unspecified order of operations as much as possible.
08:41:47 <duerig> And postfix only says that the increment must happen after a time.
08:42:03 <duerig> IIRC, there is a whole thing about sequence points and stuff for consistency.
08:45:32 <GregorR> I'm sort of proud that 2L is the example on the Undefined Behavior page :)
08:48:29 <GregorR> Does anybody want to help me write fake research for the Intelligent Falling Education and Learning Library?
08:49:06 <GregorR> Something suggesting that gravitation is wrong and the best explanation is that there is a supernatural force pushing things down (except for those which it doesn't want to, IE birds, bees, and airplanes)
08:53:46 <duerig> Hahaha. Maybe some other time.
08:54:02 <duerig> Right now I'm busy procrastinating. :)
09:00:24 <duerig> Question: I presume that the PC in 2L turns before the '+' sign has to do with the wire-crossing problem.
09:01:24 <duerig> Er that the reason that the PC...
09:21:40 <fizzie> ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E) (aka C99), 6.5, paragraph 2: "Between the previous and next sequence point and object shall have its stored value modified at most once by the evaluation of an expression. Furthermore, the prior value shall be read only to determine the value to be stored. 70)"
09:22:23 <fizzie> "70) This paragraph renders undefined expressions such as i = ++i + 1; a[i++] = i; while allowing i = i + 1; a[i] = i;"
09:23:06 <fizzie> And sequence points are basically at ';', ',', '&&', '||' and probably a few others. ('?:', I'd guess.)
09:36:02 <duerig> Nifty. I knew there were sequence points involved. :)
09:37:38 <duerig> Goodnight. Take care all.
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13:29:23 <wooby> what's new and cool in the world of esolangs
13:31:06 -!- kipple has joined.
13:33:38 <wooby> checking out glass now, looks sweet
13:35:59 <jix> !glass {M[moO!"Glass rules!"oo.?]}
13:36:55 <jix> !glass {M[moO!"The square root of 5 is: "oo.? <5> j(JixMath).? j(sqrt).? o(on).?]}
13:36:56 <EgoBot> The square root of 5 is:
13:37:13 <jix> !glass {M[moO!"The square root of 5 is: "oo.? j(JixMath).? <5> j(sqrt).? o(on).?]}
13:37:14 <EgoBot> The square root of 5 is:
13:37:28 <jix> !glass {M[m~Debug.cl~]}
13:37:30 <EgoBot> A Arr Arre BF Debug Emote F Fib Hsh Hshe I JixMath L LameQuine M O Rand S Tape TapeItem V
13:37:42 <jix> !glass {M[m"JixMath"~Debug.fl~]}
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14:41:07 <Gs30ng> glass is cool GregorR made an awesome work
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14:50:46 <Robdgreat> I was telling Gregor the other day that he's demented
14:51:07 <jix> but glass IS cool
14:53:20 <Gs30ng> well actually i have no enough time too read about it carefully and fully understand the language but it.. well... seems cool and must be cool since it's Gregor Maiden (?)
14:57:13 <Gs30ng> 'made' can be an alternative... it's kinda term of somewhere in europe afaik
15:50:07 <kipple> maiden has nothing to do with the word made (though whether or not it applies to Gregor, I will not speculate) ;)
15:50:42 <jix> lol i just looked up maiden...
15:52:08 <kipple> Gergor's maiden language is 2L I think, and not Glass :)
15:52:44 <Gs30ng> well ENGLISH word maiden would be
15:53:19 <Gs30ng> but i haven't determined what 'maiden' that i used is in
15:53:34 <kipple> I don't understand what you mean... I am talking about the english word of course
15:54:36 <Gs30ng> and i mean i used the word maiden of nonenglish... damn i can't figure out what language it is
17:24:32 <puzzlet> maiden is past participle of made
17:25:25 <kipple> what does that mean? can you give an example of it in a sentence?
17:26:32 <puzzlet> which means somebody made them
17:28:27 <puzzlet> same way that kitten is past participle of kit
17:29:00 <kipple> dictionary.com has no listing of that meaning of maiden. guess I'll not depend 100% on that one again :)
17:40:16 -!- mtve has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:49:20 <GregorR> Ummmmmmmmmmmm ..................
18:49:32 <GregorR> Maiden is not the past participle of made :P
18:50:03 <GregorR> Maden could be, but isn't.
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19:04:02 <GregorR> jix: You used .? instead of !
19:04:13 <GregorR> !glass {M[moO!"The square root of 5 is: "oo.? <5> j(JixMath)! j(sqrt).? o(on).?]}
19:04:15 <EgoBot> The square root of 5 is: 2.23607
19:07:27 -!- wildhalcyon has joined.
19:09:27 <duerig> GregorR, what is cat in glass?
19:11:46 <GregorR> {M[miI!oO!t$eie.?tn.?=/eic.?oo.?eie.?tn.?=\][n(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>]}
19:12:05 <GregorR> I actually have a cat in the glass distro, but I just wrote that one ;)
19:12:09 <GregorR> !glass {M[miI!oO!t$eie.?tn.?=/eic.?oo.?eie.?tn.?=\][n(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>]}
19:13:04 <duerig> I'll look in the distribution.
19:13:13 <GregorR> !glass {M[(ln)(_a)1=,/(_a)<0>^\<1>][m(_i)I!(_o)O!(_t)$(_c)(_i)e.?(_t)(ln).?=/(_c)(_i)c.?(_o)o.?(_c)(_i)e.?(_t)(ln).?=\]}
19:14:52 <GregorR> Weird, my input function must be broken.
19:14:56 <GregorR> That works fine from the console.
19:15:56 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/26950
19:16:43 <duerig> !i 1 Happy day indeed!
19:16:47 <GregorR> wildhalcyon: It's all EgoBot.
19:16:49 <duerig> !i 1 "Happy day indeed!"
19:16:55 <EgoBot> Happy day indeed!"Happy day indeed!"
19:17:07 <duerig> It doesn't submit without a newline?
19:17:29 <GregorR> That is, the output doesn't come back if there is no newline.
19:17:38 <GregorR> Otherwise, it would just spew half-output to the channel ;)
19:17:52 <GregorR> wildhalcyon: /msg EgoBot !help
19:17:56 <GregorR> wildhalcyon: It's on 16 now :)
19:18:35 <duerig> !i 1 "Shiny happy people are attacking!"\n
19:18:37 <EgoBot> "Shiny happy people are attacking!"
19:20:48 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
19:20:50 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
19:21:42 <duerig> Using the bot here has made it clear to me that rail needs better error reporting.
19:26:43 <duerig> GregorR, I'd like to ask your advice about something. In the wiki article on rail, I put exhaustive lists of cases in a couple of places. This really helped me when I was making it and setting up the lookup tables for direction and such. But is it useful to have them in the general article? Is there a good way to summarize them?
19:29:00 <GregorR> I would leave the simple and explanatory cases in, and move the exhaustive lists to the bottom, a sort of an appendix, with a link.
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20:31:06 <jix> !glass {M[m<2><3>~A.mod~~O.on~]}
20:34:59 -!- int-e has quit ("Bye!").
20:36:42 <jix> !glass {M[m<2><3>~A.lt~~O.on~]}
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21:03:07 <Robdgreat> hm. somebody sent me a credit card.
21:21:33 -!- {^Raven^} has joined.
21:23:09 <GregorR> Why {^Raven^}, you're back.
21:24:20 <{^Raven^}> yup two more machines got exploded three weeks after i fixed em
21:25:04 <{^Raven^}> first time was a power spike that only killd the windows machines
21:25:14 <GregorR> You just attach a wire between somewhere on the motherboard and a pile of black powder, then another wire from the pile of black power to another place on the motherboard.
21:25:35 <Robdgreat> I wondered if there was another way
21:25:43 <{^Raven^}> second time was a brown out that exploded a my server and my windows machine
21:26:41 <{^Raven^}> got one on the main supply covering everything
21:27:54 <{^Raven^}> this time the machines were only shell shocked and needed an hour or two to get their wits back so no repairs needed
21:28:44 <Robdgreat> half my kingdom for clothes that wash themselves
21:29:45 <{^Raven^}> funny thing is that even though power was out for about 3 seconds one of my machines never noticed and just kept on processing without a blink :)
21:30:57 <GregorR> That's a mighty capacitor :)
21:31:35 <{^Raven^}> Acorn machines are known for their unrelenting ability to keep on working :P
21:33:07 <{^Raven^}> Anyhoo, gotta go veg out in front of a movie
21:33:37 -!- {^Raven^} has quit ("Leaving").
21:33:57 <Aardwolf> what does it mean if a machine is "shell shocked"?
21:40:27 <GregorR> shell-shocked or shell·shocked (shlshkt)
21:40:32 <GregorR> 2. Stunned, distressed, or exhausted from a prolonged trauma or an unexpected difficulty.
21:45:30 <Robdgreat> was about to say what about in a computer context
21:58:43 -!- mtve has joined.
22:11:17 -!- calamari has joined.
22:12:18 <GregorR> calamari: Has EgoBot preempted EsoBot to the degree that I can remove EsoBot from the topic? :P
22:13:11 <calamari> sure, I haven't really been trying to keep EsoBot running
22:13:25 -!- GregorR has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - wiki: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - falsebot: F!<false>, EgoBot: !help.
22:13:32 <GregorR> Now if I could just get false into EgoBot >_<
22:13:47 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
22:13:49 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
22:13:51 <EgoBot> Use: ps Function: display the current processes
22:14:24 <GregorR> Any languages you want to suggest adding?
22:14:52 <calamari> well, I was making that list of non-file using interpreters, but never got past 'A'
22:15:17 <GregorR> lol, preferably not just the complete list, but languages that at least somebody is interested in ;)
22:16:30 <GregorR> I'm sort of wary of muddling up my nice list of BSM and greater languages with jokes :P
22:17:55 <marcan> how do you type befunge into EgoBot?
22:17:59 <marcan> aren't programs multiline?
22:18:00 <calamari> or did you decide against a local program repository?
22:18:06 <GregorR> I have no intention of implementing a pseudofilesystem.
22:18:16 <calamari> marcan: I think you can use \n
22:18:17 <GregorR> It's just nothing I want to deal with :P
22:18:29 <GregorR> You need to use URLs for multiline programs.
22:28:15 -!- Sgep has joined.
22:52:32 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
22:53:29 <EgoBot> Use: show <pid> Function: display the current output buffer for a process
22:53:57 <calamari> you need to run an interpreter first
22:55:09 <calamari> (of course that won't do anything :)
22:55:47 <calamari> I think show only works while the program is running
22:56:25 <Aardwolf> !bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+.
22:56:51 <calamari> !bf ,----------[++++++++++.,----------]
22:56:55 <Aardwolf> if I could upload a file to it I'd let it run Lost Kingdom :)
22:57:07 <calamari> Aardwolf: you can run a program from a url
22:58:08 <GregorR> The confusion of EgoBot's output buffer explained: While the program is running, it will only output on \n or when you do !show, when the program stops running, it will output the rest of the buffer.
22:58:26 <calamari> GregorR: no confusion.. just testing again ;)
22:58:48 <calamari> GregorR: it doesn't remember all the output?
22:59:03 <GregorR> As soon as it outputs it it forgets it.
22:59:35 <calamari> I was going to add a !spy to EsoBot, in case someone started a program and left it, I could spy and figure out what the program was
23:01:19 <Aardwolf> well I hope it won't spam the channel too much
23:01:37 <Aardwolf> !bf http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/brol/LostKng.b
23:02:27 <calamari> *cough* local webserver *cough*
23:02:57 <GregorR> Oh, don't fret, it's downloading.
23:03:52 <Aardwolf> does it support brainloller? :)
23:04:12 <Aardwolf> it would load much faster, LK in a small png image :)
23:06:10 <GregorR> calamari: Maybe I will start up a local file repo ;)
23:06:26 <Aardwolf> is it still downloading? because when I download it it's there in a few seconds
23:06:41 <GregorR> Yeah, it's still downloading :P
23:07:07 <Aardwolf> I guess they're faster for people in belgium than the outside
23:07:52 <GregorR> So I'm just an outsider, eh :-P
23:08:46 <Aardwolf> well meanwhile, check out this :) http://www.rense.com/general67/street.htm
23:14:41 <Aardwolf> it isn't redownloading the file for each character it reads, right? :)
23:16:46 <calamari> should keep it going until the game is completed
23:17:12 <GregorR> When you kill it, it will delete the file, and I will be unhappy ;)
23:17:22 <calamari> it won't work right tho, if I'm understanding correctly
23:17:33 <Robdgreat> you should put in a progress indicator command
23:17:34 <calamari> because it won't print the prompts
23:17:43 <calamari> you'll have to do !show every time
23:17:48 <GregorR> It's pretty easy to tell when there's a prompt.
23:17:54 <GregorR> It doesn't /need/ to output it.
23:18:15 <GregorR> calamari: !help seems to suggest otherwise.
23:18:27 <GregorR> Anyway, it's impossible to detect whether a program is awaiting input.
23:18:28 <Aardwolf> if it outputted everything at once, wouldn't the bot be klined or something? :D
23:18:32 <calamari> it flushes automatically when waiting for input
23:18:33 <GregorR> So, there's no way I could out a prompted.
23:19:16 <GregorR> It's possible in C/C++ too.
23:19:21 <Aardwolf> include brainloller interpreter in it, the png version of lost kingdom would have been downloaded very fast :)
23:19:24 <GregorR> It's just not possible to do it from another process.
23:20:02 <Robdgreat> I'm running it through my bf->c converter, finally a satisfactory benchmark for it
23:20:20 <GregorR> Robdgreat: Test it against egobfc2m
23:22:02 -!- EsoBot has joined.
23:22:26 <calamari> !bf http://localhost/bf/LostKng.b
23:22:54 <Aardwolf> auch both bots use the same commands :s
23:22:55 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/LostKng.b
23:23:00 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
23:23:02 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
23:23:05 <EsoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
23:23:06 <EsoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
23:23:09 <EsoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
23:23:29 <EsoBot> You are standing inside your ramshackle wooden hut. The squalor here has
23:23:29 <EsoBot> replaced the comfort and grandeur of your former royal palace. In one corner
23:23:31 <EsoBot> near the north door leading to your garden lies the pile of straw you use as
23:23:32 <EsoBot> a bed. Fixed in place by an unknown magic, next to a small table, is a wooden
23:23:34 <EsoBot> mockery of your former throne. The main door to the east leads outside to a
23:23:46 <EsoBot> a small wooden box of matches sitting on the table (2)
23:24:33 <jix> calamari: because it's annoying
23:25:28 <calamari> how about short room descriptions then hehe
23:25:35 <calamari> E!bf http://localhost/bf/LostKng.b
23:25:43 <EsoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
23:25:44 <EsoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
23:25:47 <jix> how about letting esobot join another channel...
23:25:47 <EsoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
23:25:48 <EsoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
23:25:51 <EsoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
23:25:58 <EsoBot> 1:Aardwolf, 2:calamari
23:26:19 <EsoBot> You are in a small hut by a dirt road.
23:26:38 <jix> E!2 take matches
23:27:00 <EsoBot> You need to specify an item.
23:27:06 <Robdgreat> Operation completed in 591.80829906464 seconds
23:27:53 <calamari> Aardwolf: you don't need E! in a msg, you knew that right ?
23:27:58 <EsoBot> You are in an unkempt yard near an old shack.
23:29:08 <EsoBot> You can't go that way.
23:29:18 <EsoBot> You are in an unkempt yard overlooking a stagnant pond.
23:29:45 <EsoBot> You are in an unkempt yard near an old shack.
23:29:53 <EsoBot> You are in a small hut by a dirt road.
23:30:02 <EsoBot> You are on a dirt road.
23:30:14 <calamari> one thing about Ego's it'll be faster :)
23:30:19 <EsoBot> You are on a dirt road near a small forest.
23:30:29 <EsoBot> You are in a small forest.
23:30:30 <Aardwolf> well I ain't got my forest map here
23:30:36 <Aardwolf> and I'm not planning to get lost :D
23:30:51 <jix> does ego support prompt output (output without newline when input is requested ?)
23:30:53 <EsoBot> [Your score has just gone up by 5 points.]
23:30:58 <EsoBot> You are in a small forest.
23:31:01 <EsoBot> There are exits north, south, east and west.
23:31:20 <jix> are there any esolang prime programs that are more intelligent than simple sieve of e. ?
23:31:56 <Aardwolf> E!bf http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/utils/mandelbrot/mandelbrot.b
23:32:19 <EsoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDEGFFEEEEDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
23:32:22 -!- GregorR_ has joined.
23:32:23 <EsoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDEEEFGIIGFFEEEDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
23:32:27 <EsoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEFFFI KHGGGHGEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
23:32:27 <jix> they are flooding again
23:32:33 <EsoBot> AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEFFGHIMTKLZOGFEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
23:32:39 <GregorR_> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! Network outages rock!
23:32:58 <Aardwolf> I was hoping for a smaller resolution mandelbrot
23:33:02 <GregorR_> EgoBot: YOU ARE DEAD! ADMIT IT!!!
23:33:06 -!- EgoBot has quit (Nick collision from services.).
23:33:07 <jix> maybe we get #1 chan on meme
23:33:17 -!- GregorR has quit (Nick collision from services.).
23:33:24 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to GregorR.
23:33:54 <GregorR> Pff, power outages don't count.
23:36:28 <calamari> hmm.. what if you did program < input.. and input was a driver.. then you could know when input is being requested
23:37:23 <Aardwolf> and what if \n would be added automatically behind an input command?
23:37:35 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:37:45 <calamari> Aardwolf: that has certain disadvantages
23:37:48 <jix> Aardwolf: problems
23:37:59 <jix> Aardwolf: rot13 does input output input output....
23:38:09 <jix> you get every char on its own line zhis way
23:39:16 <calamari> the solution jix came up with was to output \n on input if output was not empty
23:40:04 <calamari> that's impossible for GregorR without weird device hacks I think :)
23:40:18 <Aardwolf> well or an option auto\n that can be enabled for a certain process where it would be handy
23:40:30 <GregorR> You know what? EgoBot is GPL'd.
23:41:13 <calamari> speaking of that, I should upload EsoBot to comply with my gpl license :)
23:42:11 <Aardwolf> um, yeah, let me send it to you
23:42:23 <Robdgreat> I lacked the foresight to actually save it
23:42:35 <Aardwolf> or download it from the site, that will be faster
23:42:38 <Robdgreat> attempting to select the entire converted c code crashed my browser
23:42:50 <Aardwolf> http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.zip
23:43:51 <Aardwolf> how to give egobot a befunge program?
23:51:56 <EgoBot> help ps kill i flush show
23:51:58 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
23:52:06 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
23:52:35 <EsoBot> Commands: bf, cat, help, kill, ls, ps, quit, unnecessary.
23:52:49 <calamari> !befunge http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/befunge93/eg/hello2.bf
23:54:02 <Aardwolf> maybe it's downloading slow again...
23:54:28 <calamari> !befunge 25*"!dlrow ,olleH">:#,_
23:55:55 <EgoBot> cp: cannot stat `./files/file://bf/LostKng': No such file or directory
23:56:55 <EgoBot> cp: cannot stat `./files/bf/LostKng': No such file or directory
23:57:05 <calamari> ran it with &.. so I guess I'll never know what broke it
23:57:41 <EgoBot> (C) Jon Ripley 2004, 2005
23:57:43 -!- EsoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:57:43 <EgoBot> Brainfuck Edition v0.11
23:57:47 <EgoBot> To read the back-story enter '!'.
23:57:49 <EgoBot> For a list of commands enter '?'.
23:57:59 <EgoBot> Enable long room descriptions (Y/N) ?
23:58:09 <EgoBot> You are in a small hut by a dirt road.
23:58:33 <calamari> Aardwolf: I killed it.. became unresponsive
23:58:33 <EgoBot> You scored 0 points out of a possible 100.
23:58:35 <EgoBot> You have earned the rank of Amateur.
00:00:13 <Aardwolf> GregorR check the pm's of EgoBot :p
00:00:40 <GregorR> lol, it's not that dumb ;)
00:00:56 <GregorR> But I can do it with the !raw command
00:01:07 <GregorR> calamari: No, I was referring to Aardwolf's PMs.
00:01:27 <Aardwolf> I tried making EgoBot say sometihng in this channel while giving it the command in pm
00:02:11 <calamari> !bf ++++++++++++++[>+>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++>++<<<<<<-]>-.>>---.++++.<+++.>-.>>>++++.<++.<-.<<<.---.
00:02:40 <Aardwolf> calamari: it's easier with kipple:
00:02:41 <calamari> hey, I spent over 30 minutes finding that optimal string, had to at least run it
00:03:11 <GregorR> Aardwolf: That could only get anywhere near working if EgoBot was built into a traditional IRC client that uses / commands. But it isn't.
00:04:04 <Aardwolf> does there exist a string to bf converter?
00:04:55 <calamari> http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/index.html
00:05:21 <jix> calamari: wasn't there a shorter hw ?
00:05:26 <Aardwolf> hmm too bad I'm on a window box, I hope I get the java thing to run here
00:05:34 <jix> hello world
00:05:42 <jix> / 111-byte "Hello World!" with newline (assumed optimal)
00:06:18 <calamari> that's the shortest one I know.. if there is a shorter, that'd be very cool
00:06:43 <Aardwolf> wow the java command works in windows :D
00:06:54 <calamari> it may reveal a better way of doing the generation
00:07:12 <calamari> haha you need javac to compile tho
00:08:11 <EgoBot> cp: cannot stat `./files/bf/numwarp.b ': No such file or directory
00:08:37 <GregorR> calamari: You accidentally put a space at the end of that line ;)
00:09:01 <GregorR> Hello, you have to input a \n
00:09:38 <jix> calamari: http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/short.b << somewhere there
00:11:29 <jix> stop flooding please some use this channel for talking
00:12:39 <GregorR> If you just want to play with EgoBot, go to #egobot ;)
00:12:50 <calamari> maybe it'd be best to limit #esoteric output to one line?
00:13:10 <jix> !bf ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>->+>>+[<]<-]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++.
00:13:14 <GregorR> How about after one line it switches to PM.
00:13:14 <Aardwolf> i 2 123test123\n <-- gives messed up stuff
00:13:22 <jix> that's 106 chars vs 111
00:13:57 <jix> it says in shorts.b
00:14:02 <jix> http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/short.b
00:17:28 <calamari> !bf +++++++++++[>++++++>+<<-]>+.>-[.[-],]
00:20:53 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
00:21:06 <GregorR> DAMN YOU calamari!!!!!!!!!!
00:22:13 <jix> how to compile http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/textgen.java ?
00:22:16 <calamari> you kinda brought that upon yourself with the !flush es tho :)
00:22:21 -!- EgoBot has joined.
00:22:35 <GregorR> calamari: Flush does NOT show current output.
00:22:42 <GregorR> calamari: !flush DISCARDS current output.
00:22:46 <calamari> GregorR: right, you let it skip ahead
00:23:33 <jix> how to run ~/Projekte/esolangs/brainfuck/textgen.class ?
00:24:05 <jix> ah without .class...
00:24:23 <EgoBot> Use: eof <pid> Function: send EOF to a process
00:24:39 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
00:24:41 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
00:25:11 <GregorR> There's no cd, etc, just !ls bf/
00:25:26 <calamari> !bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]
00:25:38 <GregorR> What did calamari just run ...
00:26:09 <calamari> "Translate text to brainfuck that prints it."
00:26:19 <GregorR> lol, it's horribly inefficient ;)
00:26:25 <EgoBot> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
00:26:40 <GregorR> See? Horribly inefficient.
00:27:23 <GregorR> There's a maximum output length.
00:27:26 <GregorR> It just cuts it after that.
00:27:43 <Aardwolf> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
00:28:58 <calamari> GregorR: you were writing a genetic programming tool, right?
00:29:28 <jix> hmm i think i'm going to try to write a better bf textgen
00:29:55 <calamari> jix: that one is highly experimental, but it seems to work :)
00:30:22 <Aardwolf> one that uses the list of bf constants on the wiki would be nice :)
00:30:24 <calamari> I don't have any genetic programming background
00:30:53 <calamari> Aardwolf: that works for a single letter, but beyond that...
00:30:57 <jix> me neither
00:31:08 <jix> i know how they work but not how to tune them
00:31:13 <Aardwolf> beyond that you use the difference, which is again a value from 0-255
00:31:30 <calamari> Aardwolf: textgen is better than that already
00:31:34 <GregorR> You can't assume that it's an 8-bit wrap.
00:31:49 <GregorR> What if they're running it on egobfi8 -nowrap, egobfi16, egobfi32 or egobfi64?
00:31:57 <Aardwolf> if you replace all + by - and all - by + in the contants, does it give the negative nubmer?
00:32:05 <GregorR> (The only family of interpreters worth running ;) )
00:32:16 <GregorR> Aardwolf: I don't see why not.
00:32:39 <GregorR> But just diffing from each letter to the next is not going to be the most efficient way.
00:33:30 <GregorR> Well, the main problem is that it would be highly inefficient on, for example: amamamamamamama
00:33:33 <Aardwolf> hmm, maybe generating the letters in a better order or something?
00:33:41 <Aardwolf> yeah, first all a's, then all m's :)
00:34:16 <jix> i'm going to use genetic algorithms too
00:34:32 <calamari> !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>+.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.
00:34:33 <jix> the first part will be random bf code
00:34:54 <Aardwolf> genetically generated bf code, what's next
00:35:07 <jix> the 2nd and difficult part will be finding a way to use the initialized memory for outputting
00:35:14 <jix> Aardwolf: textgen.java uses genetic algorithms
00:35:17 <calamari> Aardwolf: apparently 2nd generation genetic bf code :)
00:35:53 <calamari> jix: textgen is gpl, so hack at will :)
00:35:54 <jix> can't get hw under 125 byte
00:36:08 <jix> calamari: there is a problem with textgen.java
00:36:22 <jix> substitute . with :
00:36:30 <jix> calamari: textgen.java
00:36:45 -!- Aardwolf has quit ("Conetcion reeset by beer").
00:37:03 <GregorR> OK, EgoBot now only sends one line to the channel.
00:38:05 <jix> i could use A* for the 2nd part
00:38:11 <GregorR> It doesn't output blank lines, calamari ;)
00:39:00 <jix> the problem would be a good estimation (?) algorithm for speeding things up
00:39:34 <calamari> haha, only get the first line of a ps now
00:39:56 <calamari> maybe strip off \n's in channel
00:40:44 <jix> i'm going to use c++ because i need speed
00:41:02 <jix> high eleven?
00:41:11 <GregorR> It's better than five, it's better than ten!
00:41:36 <calamari> perhaps GregorR has an extra digit
00:41:53 <jix> what is high eleven?
00:41:56 <GregorR> Oh, I have an extra /digit/ all right *SUGGESTIVE WINK*
00:42:15 <GregorR> jix: Then add another "high five"
00:42:19 <GregorR> jix: Then add a "high one"
00:42:28 <jix> high five?
00:42:44 <jix> ah ok google helped me
00:43:12 <calamari> GregorR: I don't want to know those kind of digit details ;)
00:44:06 <GregorR> Oh, heh, forgot that high fives are a purely American thing :P
00:45:16 <jix> random + A* is probably a good combination for generating genomes (?)
00:45:56 <jix> the random part mutates and the 2nd part is always the shortest one that generates output using the memory data (without looping)
00:46:41 <calamari> !bf >>++>+<[[>>]+>>+[-[++++++[>+++++++>+<<-]>-.>[<------>-]++<<]<[>>[-]]>[>[-<<]+<[<+<]]+<<]>>]
00:48:03 <calamari> possibly, but with very long strings it may actually turn out to be better to generate a new set of cells partway through
00:48:47 <calamari> or to reserve a cell unaltered until later
00:49:38 <calamari> obviously textgen does neither of those things
00:49:59 <jix> a A* without estimation would take memsize^stringsize steps for the 2nd part
00:50:21 <jix> but then output the shortest code
00:50:41 <jix> with an estimation function that never overestimates it would generate the shortest code in less steps (but many too)
00:50:42 <calamari> one thing you might try is to seed the algorithm with textgen output, and fix that as the maximum length program
00:51:21 <calamari> or just take the length of the textgen as a start
00:51:30 <jix> i have to sleep about that...
00:52:34 <calamari> I was hoping to have a general solution where you gave it output and it solved it for that output, but it was not having any luck
00:53:13 <calamari> the part that it struggled with is knowing what was the best of a bunch of non-working programs
00:53:43 <jix> the good thing in my algorithm is that it always generates working programs
00:54:07 <calamari> oh, I didn't mean incorrect bf..
00:54:23 <jix> (except when the first part is trashed because it infinite loops or moves out of mem boundaries)
00:54:32 <calamari> but, for example, is outputting <1> or <2><2> better when trying to output "bf"?
00:54:53 <jix> my algorithm will always output the target string
00:55:14 <jix> and all genomes will do that
00:55:33 <jix> (they are called genome right?)
00:55:56 <calamari> how are you generating a random program? does it have a fixed structure?
00:56:00 <jix> i'm talking about the things that you generate and wehre you keep the top n items
00:56:31 <jix> calamari: no it won't have a fixed structure but i'm going to try different mutation algorithms that don't destroy structures
00:57:25 <calamari> well, good luck with it :) maybe you can generate the smallest quine
00:57:37 <jix> no won't work for quines
00:57:48 <jix> i can't use A* there
00:58:14 <jix> and for some problems the code will always be suboptimal
01:01:38 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
01:34:48 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
01:59:13 <EgoBot> 110111001100010110010011101011100111010101100001100101011010101111110000111100010101110000010010110001110001101101101000000010001111101110100111000111010111000001100100011001111001111110000001111111011001011011100000101100011011000110001110110110010101111111011010110110111101110010111011000100000000001101110010110010111100100110000111110000001011011001111001000010011111000001101
02:34:27 -!- duerig has joined.
02:36:03 <GregorR> It goes with great vivacity.
02:38:03 <duerig> Good to here. btw, I've thought of how the EgoBot might deal with files.
02:38:51 <duerig> If you've already done that, then why is it annoying to have languages that use files?
02:39:12 <GregorR> Well, I can control what files EgoBot accesses quite easily.
02:39:30 <GregorR> But if somebody writes a program to rm -rf /, there's nothing I can do about it from EgoBot.
02:40:06 <duerig> Ah. So the question is how to prevent people from being evil...
02:40:26 <Robdgreat> can't you simply restrict the permissions?
02:40:50 <GregorR> Robdgreat: If you rm -rf /, even without permissions, it will destroy egobot itself and all of its temp files, etc.
02:41:08 <sekhmet> Could have egobot run inside a chroot and make sure that its running user only has perms to a "temp" dir or something
02:41:15 <duerig> You could chroot on a process by process basis...
02:41:22 <Robdgreat> then the very least you can do is keep backups
02:41:27 <GregorR> lament: I'm not that dumb ;)
02:41:48 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: ./files/whatever: No such file or directory
02:42:05 <duerig> Well, I grant that a full shell is dangerous regardless.
02:42:34 <GregorR> Sorry lament, still not that dumb ;)
02:42:52 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: ./files/*: No such file or directory
02:43:10 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: ./files/"blah blah": No such file or directory
02:44:11 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: ./files/blah blah: No such file or directory
02:44:24 <GregorR> lament: It uses exec, you are NOT going to get around it.
02:44:49 <GregorR> Besides, what's with the blackbox testing when the code is available :P
02:44:58 <lament> because it's more fun?
02:45:15 <duerig> Its way more fun to pound on something when you don't have any idea what is going on. :-)
02:45:49 <duerig> !ls bf;cat bf/LostKng.b
02:45:52 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: ./files/bf;cat bf/LostKng: No such file or directory
02:46:38 <duerig> Good. It is suprising how many shell-based utilities let you slip something like that past.
02:46:56 <duerig> Ok. No more banging on the EgoBot.
02:48:31 -!- Arrogant has joined.
02:52:09 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/26975
02:52:18 <EgoBot> Crash: No valid move112358132134
02:53:40 <duerig> !rail http://pastebin.ca/raw/26976
02:54:13 <GregorR> I always set timeouts because I feel like it's bad to make a nonexpiring post ;)
02:54:14 <Arrogant> F!"Good. Sometimes I feel like lying though."
02:54:14 <falsebot> Good. Sometimes I feel like lying though.
02:54:38 <duerig> I'd better start doing that.
02:54:41 <Arrogant> F!"Something about me being false.
02:54:42 <falsebot> Something about me being false.
02:54:42 <Arrogant> F!"Something about me being false."
02:54:43 <falsebot> Something about me being false.
02:58:26 <duerig> Has EgoBot been taken over by aliens?
02:58:47 <EgoBot> No, I just developed an artificially intelligent conscious state.
02:59:12 <Robdgreat> I'd say "intelligent" is stretching it.
02:59:31 <EgoBot> I'm also omnipotent. You will suffer my wrath at midnight tonight.
02:59:36 * duerig hands EgoBot a big cream pie.
02:59:51 <duerig> Robdgreat, what was amazing about the fibo?
03:00:09 <Robdgreat> it's just that it's the first actual rail program I've seen
03:00:36 <EgoBot> Yeah, Rail is pretty grand.
03:01:02 * Sgep needs to leave for the night. Night all!
03:01:58 <duerig> The odd thing is that since there are multi-character commands, there is a tension about whether to do them left to right or right to left.
03:02:12 <duerig> Left to right makes more sense, but right to left confuses people and that is fun. :)
03:02:25 <Robdgreat> it's more in the spirit of esoterism
03:03:20 <duerig> Now I feel like I'm part of a movement.
03:03:28 <duerig> We could have the million language march!
03:04:17 -!- Sgep has quit.
03:05:08 <duerig> Hmm... now I have to think of another problem to do. I'd do 99 bottlesof beer, but people would get mad at me for spamming the channel...
03:27:46 -!- Arrogant has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:40:14 <Robdgreat> Lost Kingdom converted to c is over 16mb
03:40:49 <Robdgreat> that's why it took 10 minutes to process earlier, it only takes 16 seconds to translate
03:40:58 <Robdgreat> the rest of the time was for echoing the code
03:41:14 <Robdgreat> now let's see if this baby'll compile
03:42:36 <Robdgreat> oh. there's a few html issues I forgot to change
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05:17:31 <GregorR> Somebody teach me to pimp software XD
05:18:45 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:04:55 <Arrogant> We're proud of being white, we want to keep being white, we want our people to stay white we don't want to just be, you know, a big muddle. We just want to preserve our race.
06:11:42 <Arrogant> http://abcnews.go.com/primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1
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10:19:45 <duerig> Wow. Everyone seems to be idling.
10:22:00 <duerig> Clouds aren't that high.
10:22:05 <duerig> The moon now, the moon is high.
10:23:08 <encoded> thats relative, the moon aint high, its just orbting in respect to the earths plain
10:24:02 <duerig> Well, suppose we take the center of the earth as 'down'. Then, the further away something is from the center of the earth, the higher it is.
10:24:21 <duerig> Oh well. I'm just being silly.
10:25:30 <encoded> yeah maybe the next galaxy is 10billion trillion feet above sea level
10:26:13 <duerig> But that may be an underestimate.
10:27:31 -!- duerig has left (?).
10:29:28 <encoded> <Bender> When will man learn that all races are equally inferior to robots?
10:35:54 <encoded> <Bender> My life, and by extension everyone else's, is meaningless.
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10:52:26 -!- encoded has quit ("Relativity reasserts itself sooner or later.").
12:14:36 <jix> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>++++++++++.
12:14:44 <jix> the smallest Hello, world! without looping
12:15:01 <jix> that's generated by the ruby prototype of the 2nd part of my bfgentextgen
12:16:06 <jix> it took 0.9 secs using ruby should be really fast in c++
12:39:59 -!- ORBAT has joined.
12:40:46 <jix> moin ORBAT
12:41:20 <ORBAT> not a very lively channel, is this :)
12:41:28 <ORBAT> had to come check it out
12:42:16 <ORBAT> it's strange that the esolang community has pretty much withered in the last couple of years
12:42:39 <jix> check esolangs.org's wiki activity
12:42:45 <jix> it's very active atm
12:43:02 <jix> it's just the wrong time.. many esolang programmers are sleeping at this time
12:43:27 <ORBAT> yeah, but I meant generally speaking. Even the mailing list's pretty quiet nowadays
12:43:43 <jix> thats because no one use the mailing list
12:43:53 <jix> they use the wiki and this channel instead
12:44:17 <ORBAT> everybody's here, huh? That's great. Maybe we'll get the esoteric OS project and all that started again :)
12:44:25 <ORBAT> I wonder who all were involved in that one
12:44:38 <jix> not everybody's here but many people are here
12:44:45 <jix> we have more activity than #lisp !
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12:44:54 <jix> moin calamari
12:45:26 <ORBAT> jix: did you follow the mailing list?
12:45:41 <ORBAT> because, man, there were some grandiose plans made back there :)
12:47:35 <jix> ORBAT: no i didn't
12:48:47 <ORBAT> the wiki seems a lot quieter than what the mailing list used to be, which really is a shame
12:49:48 <ORBAT> on the other hand, there's a bunch of new, really intuitive languages out there now. Not just clones of 'funge, brainfuck and the like
13:34:52 <calamari> jix: how is your genetic text gen project going?
13:37:55 <ORBAT> genetic text generation?
13:39:40 <calamari> ORBAT: jix wanted to improve upon my textgen program
13:40:15 <ORBAT> trying to breed BF text, eh?
13:41:18 <calamari> yeah, I wrote it a while back.. it's using the old hello world algorithm, but a smaller was since made
13:43:29 <jix> calamari: i prototyped the 2nd part of my algorithm in ruby it works
13:44:12 <calamari> what does it do for something like ababababab.. does it set up a 2nd loop for the printing?
13:45:27 <jix> it would use .>.<.>.<...
13:46:01 <jix> the output part is (atm) always loop less
13:53:15 <jix> !bf +[--->++>--<<]>--------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>------------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++.------.--------.<+.>>>++++++++++.
13:57:21 <jix> !bf -[+++++>+++>->--<<<]+++[->>---<<]>-------------------------------.>>-.+++++++..+++.<----------.<+++++++++++++++.>>.+++.------.--------.<+.<<++++++++++.
13:59:51 <jix> i'm manual breeding atm
14:00:25 <calamari> can it do nested loops for the first part ?
14:01:05 <jix> you can instert anything for the first part
14:01:31 <jix> it's going to evaluate the first part and than passes the current state to the 2nd part generator (A*)
14:01:32 <calamari> oic.. then it generates the rhs to match
14:02:36 <jix> i need a better estimation function
14:02:55 <jix> how do you generate the rhs?
14:04:26 <ORBAT> that's pretty cool, actually
14:04:48 <calamari> jix: I don't remember, but the source to textgen isn't very big
14:05:15 <jix> my rhs algorithm in ruby fits in 100 loc
14:05:24 <ORBAT> I wonder if breeding general purpose algorithms is possible
14:06:11 <calamari> jix: how did you overcome the tendency for the breeding to favor non-looped code? I was having major problems with that
14:06:47 <jix> the rhs uses no genetic algorithms
14:06:54 <jix> and the lhs part isn't implemented yet
14:07:01 <calamari> jix: it would choose a lhs without a loop because it was shortest (then), without thinking ahead
14:07:26 <calamari> you'll experience the frustration soon enough then :)
14:07:43 <calamari> that's why I went with a hardcoded format for the lhs
14:08:57 <jix> i have to do homework now... :(
14:10:10 <ORBAT> homework? Bah, humbug :)
14:20:39 <ORBAT> genetic programming is an iteresting subject. Apparently it can nowadays produce human-competetive code in some cases
14:50:14 <jix> !bf ++[>>+>+>+>++>++[<]<------]>>........>>>+++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.<....>>.<.<..>.<...>.<...>.<.>--....<++.>>++.<++.<<.>>.<.>.<--.>..<.>>--.<--.>++.<.<++.>>.<++..<+.>.<<<++++++++++.>>>.<-...+.<.......>..<...>.>.<.>--..<-.+.>++.<.<...>.-......+.-........+.>.<<.>.>.<<..>.<<.
14:51:24 <jix> !bf ++[>>+>+>+>++>++[<]<------]>>........>>>+++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.<....>>.<.<..>.<...>.<...>.<.>--....<++.>>++.<++.<<.>>.<.>.<--.>..<.>>--.<--.>++.<.<++.>>.<++..<+.>..<-...+.<.......>..<...>.>.<.>--..<-.+.>++.<.<...>.-......+.-........+.>.<<.>.>.<<..>.<<++++++++++.
14:52:21 <jix> works "at home!
14:57:12 <ORBAT> you sure the BF program didn't just get mangled when you fed it to EgoBot?
14:57:41 <ORBAT> how many characters can there be in a line in IRC, anyhow?
15:02:33 <jix> i'm sure it's pasted the correct way
15:03:25 <jix> !bf >+[[->>+<<]>>[-<+<+>>]<+++++++]<[<]>>>>>>>........>>>>>>>-.<<<<--.<<<....>>>>>>>.<<<<.<<<..>>>.<<<...>>>.<<<...>>>.<<<.>>+++....<-----.>>>>>>++.<<<<.<<<.>>>.<<.>++.<--.>..<.>>>>>++++++.<<<--.>>>++.<<<.<<++.>>>>>.<<<<..<+.>..<-...+.<.......>..<...>.>.<.>>..<<-.+.>.<.<...>.-......+.-........+.>.<<.>.>.<<..>.<<<<<<++.
15:03:43 <jix> maybe it's non wrapping
15:04:00 <jix> E!bf ++[>>+>+>+>++>++[<]<------]>>........>>>+++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.<....>>.<.<..>.<...>.<...>.<.>--....<++.>>++.<++.<<.>>.<.>.<--.>..<.>>--.<--.>++.<.<++.>>.<++..<+.>..<-...+.<.......>..<...>.>.<.>--..<-.+.>++.<.<...>.-......+.-........+.>.<<.>.>.<<..>.<<++++++++++.
15:13:15 -!- ORBAT has quit ("Fnord").
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16:18:32 <jix> moin Keymaker
16:19:52 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
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16:30:33 <jix> !bf >+[[->>+<<]>>[-<+<+>>]<+++++++++++++]<[<]>>>>>>>>+++++++++++++++++.++.>.<-.<<<<<+++++.>>>>----.>>----.>+++.<<-.>----.<--.>++++.<+++++++.<<<<<<----.
16:31:01 <jix> !ps kill 1
16:31:38 <jix> i want 8bit wrapping BF
16:34:20 <jix> because that's my favorite BF
16:34:51 <Keymaker> the wrapping cells really ease the pain in many tasks..
16:35:29 <Keymaker> but are you sure you don't want to write portable brainfuck code? :D
16:37:55 <jix> nonwrapping is stupid
16:38:16 <jix> is limited nonwrapping tc?
16:40:26 <Keymaker> or what do you mean with "limited"?
16:40:43 <Keymaker> oh, like not having infinite memory? in that case no
16:41:01 <Keymaker> the memory needs to be infinite, or the cell size (i guess)
16:41:10 <jix> nonwrapping interpreters are stupid.. nonwrapping code will run on wrapping interpreters too
16:41:36 <Keymaker> but wrapping code won't work on nonwrapping interpreters :p
16:41:49 <jix> that's why interpreters should be wrapping
16:42:12 <jix> i refuse to write nonwrapping code
16:42:35 <Keymaker> i refuse to write wrapping code
16:42:47 <jix> !bf -++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++.
16:42:58 <jix> hmm that seems to be wrapping
16:43:03 <jix> maybe it is 16bit
16:43:46 <Keymaker> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<-]
16:44:17 <Keymaker> hmm, it either crashed or takes some time :)
16:44:25 <jix> there should be !bf8w
16:44:45 <jix> 8bit wrapping
16:45:28 <Keymaker> is there a way to stop the bot now?
16:51:38 <jix> !bf +++++[>+++++<-]>[->+>++>++++<<<]>>>[->+>+<<]>>>>----------------.++++++++++++++++++++.+.++++++++++.<<+++++++.>>>+++++.<.<<.>>-----.+.-.<-----.>+++++++++.-----.>--------.<--..>++++++++.<--.>--.<<<+.<++++++++++.
16:53:50 <jix> !bf +++++[>+++++<-]>[->+>++>++++<<<]>>>[->+>+<<]>>>>>----------------.++++++++++++++++++++.+.++++++++++.<<<+++++++.>>>>+++++.<.<<<.>>>-----.+.-.<<-----.>>+++++++++.-----.>--------.<--..>++++++++.<--.>--.<<<<+.<++++++++++.
16:54:34 <jix> 2nd typo..
16:55:11 <jix> !bf +++++[>+++++<-]>[->+>++>++++<<<]>>>[->+>+<<]>----------------.++++++++++++++++++++.+.++++++++++.<<<+++++++.>>>>+++++.<.<<<.>>>-----.+.-.<<-----.>>+++++++++.-----.>--------.<--..>++++++++.<--.>--.<<<<+.<++++++++++.
16:56:42 <jix> !bf +++++[>+++++<-]>[->+>++>++++<<<]>>>[->+>+<<]>-------------.>++++++++++++++.<++++++++++.>--..<++++++++.>--.<--.<<<+++++++.>>>----.>+.<+.+.<<<.>>>++++.>++++.<<<<.>>>-------.+++.>+..<.>--.<<<<+.<++++++++++.
16:56:45 <EgoBot> Wrapping code is better!
16:58:52 <jix> i'm generating the code using a universal startup code and a simple path finding algorithm with an overestimating estimation function
16:59:33 <jix> !bf +++++[>+++++<-]>[->+>++>++++<<<]>>>[->+>+<<]<+++++++++++++++++++++++.<++++++++++++++.>>>+++++++++.<<<-------.>>>++++++.+.+.-----.-------.>.<<<<+.<++++++++++.
17:03:50 <jix> !bf +++++[>+++++<-]>[->+>++>++++<<<]>>>[->+>+<<]<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>+.++++++++++++++++++++.------------.>---.<--.>++++.<+++++++.<<<+++++++.>>>>++++.<+.<<<.>>>.+.+.-----.>.-----.<<<<+.-.>----------------.<+++++++++.<++++++++++. ;)
17:03:52 <EgoBot> Keymaker is stupid! ;)
17:06:09 <Keymaker> that infernal wrapping machine is right..
17:10:47 <jix> !bf +++++++[>+++++++<-]>++.-----.+++.+++.---.++++.++++.-------.++++.-.--.++.+++.+.--.<++++++++++. This is a REAL pi calculator ;)
17:11:06 <Keymaker> hehe, shortest code i've seen for that :D
17:11:38 <jix> and fastest hn?
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17:13:33 <calamari> !bf +++++++++[>++++++>+++++<<-]>---.>+.+++.<+.>.<+.++++.>+.++++.-.--.++.<-.+.--.
17:15:05 <jix> i had no genetic algorithm to do that!
17:16:39 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
17:18:02 <calamari> !bf +++++++++[>++++++>+++++<<-]>---.>+.+++.<+.>.<+.++++.>+.<---.-.>+.<.+++.+.--.++.>.-.+.<-.----.++.>-.<.>++.-..<++.>.-.<-.++.>+++.-----.++.<-..>++.---.<+.--.>.
17:18:05 <EgoBot> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971
17:31:43 <fizzie> > (define hello (tokenize-glass "{M[m(_o)O!\"Hello World!\"(_o)o.?]}"))
17:31:43 <fizzie> ((class |M| (function m _o |O| (cmd . #\!) "Hello World!" _o o (cmd . #\.) (cmd . #\?))))
17:31:46 <fizzie> > (display-ssgla-program (glass->ssgla hello))
17:31:59 <fizzie> (new (class . O) (assign-to . _o))
17:32:01 <fizzie> (push-literal Hello World!)
17:32:06 <fizzie> (call (class . O) (method . o))
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17:35:34 <jix> !bf +++++++++[>++++++>+++++<<-]>---.>+.+++.<+.>.<+.++++.>+.<---.-.>+.<.+++.+.--.++.>.-.+.<-.>+.<--.>--.<.>++.-..<++.>.-.<-.++.----.>--.++.<+++..>++.---.<+.--.>.<-.+++.>++.<..>.<--.--.>--.-.<.+++.>++.--.<+.--.>++++.<++.>..+.<.>---.+.---.<--.+.>+.<--.--.>-.<++.>++.<++.--.>.--.<++.+..-.--.>++.<++.>--.+++.+.<.>--.+++.--.+.--.-..<-.>-.<-.+.++.-.>++.-.+++.<.>----.<.--.-.>+.++.-.<+++.>.+.---.<--..--.+++.>.<++.>+++.<-.>+..++.------.<+.----..>.<.+++.>++..+.-
17:35:34 <jix> -.<-.>+.<--.>+.<.++++.>+.----.<-.>+.+.<.>++.<.>---...<-.---.+.>-.++.<+++.>++.---.-.++.<-.>--.+.<++.>++.<-.---.>-.-..-.<...++++.---.--..++.>++..<+++.>++.<-.+.>+.-.<.>-.---.+++.<-.
17:35:37 <EgoBot> 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223
17:35:57 <jix> moin ORBAT
17:36:17 <ORBAT> what on earth are you up to this time :)
17:36:22 <jix> fizzie: what's that?
17:37:28 <calamari> fizzie: that's really helpful, cool :)(
17:53:15 -!- mtve has joined.
18:00:39 <fizzie> It's the beginnings of my Glass-to-Java-bytecode compiler.
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19:07:56 <jix> where is GregorR .. it's so quiet today
19:44:55 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:54:29 <GregorR> Where is jix ... it's so quiet today ;)
19:55:19 <calamari> trying to dig out of linux 2.0 (umsdos) -> 2.4
19:56:03 <GregorR> UMSDOS is actually pretty grand.
19:56:26 <GregorR> But they basically abandoned it :-P
19:56:43 <calamari> it's nifty because I don't have much disk space, so repartioning hurts both windows and linux
19:57:58 <calamari> another great feature is being able to zip it up and unzip on another computer
20:16:50 <GregorR> Wow, a lot of excitement on this chan :-P
20:21:19 -!- Aardwolf has joined.
20:22:41 <GregorR> !kipple needs input now ;)
20:23:44 <GregorR> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
20:23:47 <GregorR> Don't know why it didn't ...
20:24:21 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
20:24:44 <GregorR> And since that was a second line, it sent to me, not the channel ;)
20:25:00 <Aardwolf> oh I see, no more spam in the channel eh? :D
20:25:55 <EgoBot> Unfortunately, that hinders your ability to communicate in Kipple ;)
21:29:00 <GregorR> Good, but over-homeworked ;)
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21:33:58 <lament> but i prefer libraries
21:34:25 <lament> i don't think i bought anything there
21:34:33 <GregorR> Powells is the best bookstore anywhere ever ;)
21:34:56 <GregorR> Oh wait, I'm still in the middle of my location.
21:35:23 <GregorR> I think that's the highest that they've got it named ...
21:35:36 <lament> it's virgo supercluster
21:35:51 <GregorR> Since Virgo is near the center.
21:52:17 <Aardwolf> appearantly a human brain is 10 TFLOPS
22:01:14 <GregorR> That seems impossible to measure, since the human brain works in a totally different way than computers.
22:02:16 <Aardwolf> It was actually 10 PFLOPS, there was a mistake in wikipedia
22:02:35 <GregorR> I was going to say, don't they have >10 TFLOPS computers? :P
22:19:15 <jix> i get like 0.1 flops using my brain
22:20:00 <jix> adding to decimal numbers using my brain.. hell texas instruments invetend the pocket calculator no one needs to use a brain for doing floating point operations
22:28:45 <GregorR> I'm making a Glass-C++ compiler
22:28:54 <jix> isn't glass too dynamic?
22:29:13 <jix> Parrot glass hrhr
22:29:26 <GregorR> 1) I don't think so ... but maybe ;)
22:30:40 <jix> parrot is bad parrot uses the register model vs stack model
22:32:55 <jix> haha http://bash.org/?571740
22:38:09 <jix> GregorR: is the !bf interpreter 16 bit?
22:38:25 * jix votes for a !bf8 command
22:39:01 <GregorR> It uses EgoBF, so ... easy.
22:41:18 <jix> !bf +++++++[->+++++<]>[-<+>>++>+++<<]>+++.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>++++++++++++++.<++++++++++++++++++++++++.>---------.++++++.<<.>.<.+.>+.++++.<<+++++++++++++++++++++.>-.>---.>-----.--..<--.>+.<+++.<+.
22:41:20 <EgoBot> I want a !bf8 command!
22:44:22 <GregorR> <Philth> new jenga 9/11 memorial twin pack
22:44:24 <GregorR> <Philth> comes with a little plane to push the blocks out
22:47:10 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
22:47:19 <GregorR> OK, I have to make help output both lines to the chan :P
22:49:25 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
22:49:26 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
22:49:52 <GregorR> That enough bitwidths for you? ;)
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00:00:16 <jix> is there any fast compiled language that makes high level things easy?
00:00:34 <jix> atm i'm looking at lisp
00:02:15 <GregorR> Hmm, a fast compile language that makes high-level things easy ....
00:02:36 <jix> complex data structures like priority queue hashs ...
00:02:52 <jix> c++ makes it possible without reinventing the wheel but not as easy as i'd like it to b
00:05:19 <jix> lisp is really nice...
00:05:50 <GregorR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! TURN AWAY, BEFORE THE POWER OF LISP ENTANGLES YOU)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
00:06:12 <jix> but lisp is cool...
00:14:10 <GregorR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
00:15:10 <jix> parentheses are no problem because the text editor matches them for me
00:15:42 <GregorR> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) is always a problem.
00:37:12 <fizzie> And I only have a ")))))))))))" in the Glass compiler thing, no longer strings of parens.
00:37:43 <jix> i think scheme is nice too but there are better lisp compilers for osx
00:37:44 <calamari> GregorR: I've tried 3 different dhcp packages and still can't get online
00:38:47 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
00:41:32 <marcan> we should all be using IPv6 by now
00:42:24 <marcan> I hate the whole dhcp/NAT/etc hacks
00:42:48 <marcan> all it does is make everything more complex and less reliable
00:43:27 <marcan> example: here at college, someone plugged in his router wrong and connected the network ports to the campus network. DHCP conflict and took down the whole building network
00:47:19 -!- calamari has joined.
00:49:53 <fizzie> Our campus network uses static IPs (based on physical address), but we still have problems with people more-or-less accidentally setting up dhcp servers giving addresses from 192.168.0.0/16 or the other private blocks.
00:55:24 <calamari> well, I think I'm actually having a pcmcia problem.. not getting a power light on the card
01:06:19 <calamari> bah.. I have to give up for today.. gotta do homework
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01:12:48 <GregorR> And it precluded GlassBot, BFBot and EsoBot.
01:12:56 <GregorR> Hm,m I need to fix the repeat detection XD
01:13:02 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
01:13:05 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
01:14:32 <ihope> F!99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#
01:14:33 <falsebot> 97 89 83 79 73 71 67 61 59 53 47 43 41 37 31 29 23 19 17 13 11 7 5 3 2
01:14:51 <GregorR> And so you go for the one language that /isn't/ in EgoBot :P
01:14:58 <jix> argh is it the first 2:14 or the 2nd 2:14 ?
01:15:22 <GregorR> jix: Trouble with timezones? :P
01:15:40 <jix> no but today is WORD_MISSING
01:16:00 <jix> daylight saving time switching?
01:16:23 <ihope> Hmm, the first time through I read that as WORLD_MISSING.
01:19:33 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Glass is better than False!"(_o)o.?]}
01:19:36 <EgoBot> Glass is better than False!
01:20:14 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
01:20:16 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
01:20:27 <ihope> Is it supposed to do that?
01:22:20 <ihope> So could I just type something like "!bf+[,.]!Hi" and expect it to work, or is there more to it?
01:22:41 <EgoBot> Use: i <pid> <input> Function: send input to a process
01:22:52 <EgoBot> Use: ps Function: display the current processes
01:23:30 <GregorR> That'll start a proc, then !i 1 Hi!\n
01:23:45 <GregorR> Oh, you do need a space ;)
01:25:07 <ihope> I got a private message thinger...
01:25:18 <GregorR> It'll only send one line to the chan ;)
01:25:49 <ihope> Is there a Lazy K-type botter thing?
01:26:02 * GregorR tries to remember whether he put lazy k in EgoBot ...
01:26:06 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls
01:26:08 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01
01:26:40 <GregorR> What's a good interpreter, I can add it in a jiffy.
01:26:47 <ihope> Hmm, no Iota, no Jot, no Unlambda ;-)
01:27:09 <GregorR> All can be added with suggestions of good interpreters.
01:27:58 <ihope> Seems there's some stuff at http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/download/lazy-k/
01:28:14 <lament> nobody programs in lazyk though
01:29:00 <GregorR> Oh wait, that's right. I tried to add lazyk, but the interp had issues.
01:29:09 <ihope> What kind of issues?
01:29:26 <GregorR> Well, it wouldn't out its results, for one.
01:29:50 <GregorR> !lazyk http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/download/lazy-k/eg/fib.lazy
01:30:58 <lament> !lazyk http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/download/lazy-k/eg/fib.lazy
01:31:33 <GregorR> Also, that takes up all my CPU :-P
01:31:43 <GregorR> It gets rid of pending output.
01:31:44 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood).
01:31:53 <GregorR> And makes it not do that ;)
01:33:19 -!- EgoBot has joined.
01:37:15 <lament> this is why you should kill stuff
01:37:29 <GregorR> Best palindrome ever: revemord nilap tseb.
01:37:30 <lament> a) output exceeds a certain number of characters
01:37:39 <lament> b) output exceeds a certain number of lines
01:37:48 <lament> c) execution time exceeds some limit
01:37:56 <GregorR> d) EgoBot gets dropped for flooding :P
01:38:16 -!- Robdgreat has quit.
01:48:14 <ihope> Now, what's !show here do?
01:48:59 <GregorR> If the output doesn't have an EOF, it need's to be !showed to be seen.
01:50:54 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
02:04:11 <ihope> Position mouse over desired location. Invert popper toy and place on mouse. Accuracy of clicks not guaranteed.
02:06:53 <ihope> Bye bye. Don't accidentally break your "delete" key like I just did.
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02:08:19 <encoded> whats esoteric programming?
02:12:33 <lament> It's... Programming intentionally made more interesting than it ought to be.
02:12:47 <lament> encoded: ever heard of Brainfuck?
02:15:53 <lament> just look at this: http://brainfuck.kicks-ass.net/files/mandelbrot.bf
02:16:02 <lament> that should explain it.
02:19:15 <encoded> this doesnt explain anything
02:21:57 <lament> oh, just learn brainfuck
02:27:56 <GregorR> See http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck
02:35:21 <encoded> can i get a brainfuck compiler?
02:35:33 <kipple> encoded: here is an attempt to describe esoteric programming: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language
02:36:13 <kipple> this is the coolest brainfuck compiler for linux: http://www.nada.kth.se/~matslina/awib/
02:36:21 <kipple> it is written in brainfuck
02:36:55 <kipple> I'm sure there are some.
02:37:03 <kipple> I just use interpreters
02:39:50 <encoded> hmm.. nobody can or should use this for any real world purpose
02:40:13 <kipple> well, you can, but you shouldn't ;)
02:41:18 <GregorR> That's sort of the point ;)
02:41:52 <encoded> yeah... its mostly just a brain fuck
02:45:59 <lament> nobody should use C++ for any real world purpose, either :P
02:46:03 <lament> and yet... they do, all the time
02:50:53 <GregorR> Don't mind lament, he has the strange notion that Python is better than C++. Hah!
02:59:01 <encoded> soo.. why are you ppl here? supporting a language that has no use?
03:02:07 <lament> what do you mean it has no use? it fucks with people's brains
03:03:06 <encoded> hmm.. you need to develop a code that alters your thought just by looking at it, not just anoy you.
03:03:22 <encoded> like subliminal messeges or something
03:13:30 <lament> before i started using brainfuck, i didn't even suspect about the secret underground catacombs where the government keeps the giant robots
03:13:36 <lament> but now i know all about them
03:14:23 <encoded> maybe whats THEY want you to belive
03:14:48 <encoded> THEY are the (not so secret) world goverment
03:15:23 <lament> but i know it's actually not the real government
03:15:30 <lament> the real government is on spaceships
03:16:03 <encoded> hm... maybe you HAVE been looking at BF for 2 long...
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03:28:04 <lament> this proves that C++ programmers are weird.
03:28:45 * GregorR tries to decide whether to submit that to bash.org :P
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11:25:04 <Keymaker> fun thing i found from google;
11:25:07 <Keymaker> "brainfuck.com: The Leading Programming Language Site on the Net"
11:25:22 <Keymaker> too bad it has nothing brainfuck related in it
11:44:20 <jix> there is just one editor suitable for lisp (that i found).. emacs
11:53:04 <Keymaker> hmmm, the simpsons'll start soon. bbl
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14:01:14 * jix made a esolang map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang
14:02:12 <jix> anyone here?
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14:15:28 * Keymaker tries to think, brains explode
14:15:37 <jix> you need javascript to view that
14:16:14 <jix> there is a pin pointing at europe (thats me (well the pin is off a few kms))
14:16:31 <jix> you can add yourself to the map
14:16:44 <jix> you can double click a pin and zoom in...
14:16:59 <jix> you can switch to satellite view
14:22:34 <jix> feel free to add yourself
14:23:18 <Keymaker> hmmm, probably i can't find the place
14:23:35 <jix> you just have to enter your city name
14:31:25 <Keymaker> hopefully the others will add their places there too
14:31:48 <jix> url => topic
14:32:47 <jix> LOL you are in the water
14:33:07 <jix> maybe a few km off in the wrong direction? ;)
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14:54:46 <fizzie> Too bad you can't give it an exact location, my home is quite clearly visible in the satellite view.
15:00:09 <Keymaker> i just wondered because you said your home is quite clearly visible in the satellite view.. and i didn't know you can zoom so close with the satellite view :)
15:01:28 <Keymaker> hey, i didn't know finland is covered in gray if you zoom close enough! that must be something rock..
15:01:29 <fizzie> http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=60.190135,24.836279&spn=0.004626,0.013087&t=k&hl=en
15:02:05 <Keymaker> zooms much better than to tampere
15:03:08 <Keymaker> by the way, can one see these places at night time? with all the lights and so on?
15:04:31 <fizzie> If you have your own satellite to take pictures with, sure. :p
15:05:05 <fizzie> In London the 'hybrid' view used to have the streets few metres off the satellite view, let's see if they still have that problem...
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15:06:30 <fizzie> Heh, yes. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=london&ll=51.511380,-0.176092&spn=0.005791,0.016002&t=h&hl=en - the roads and such are ~10-20m to the left of their proper locations.
15:14:51 <Keymaker> woah.. imagine how someone walks through the globe. it's quite long trek..
15:16:14 <Keymaker> anyways, bye.. somebody add the map link to topic! :)
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01:33:38 <kipple> !kipple 103>o<110 111>o<80
01:33:40 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
01:34:13 <EgoBot> Use: eof <pid> Function: send EOF to a process
01:34:40 <kipple> hmm. why didn't it work?
01:35:07 <kipple> !kipple 103>o<110 111>o<80
01:35:10 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
01:41:43 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
01:42:47 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
01:42:59 <GregorR> Forgot to ident to nickserv, it works :P
01:43:53 <kipple> really? could've fooled me :)
01:44:27 <GregorR> It sends the output via PM
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02:45:07 <calamari> GregorR: is there a way to have it only give that note via pm? hehe
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04:05:12 <EgoBot> (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
04:06:24 <calamari> ahh, only one beep per line hehe
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04:50:09 <duerig> Hahaha. rail. But I'm biased 'cuz I created it.
04:50:28 <duerig> Very correct, though. ;)
04:51:59 <duerig> I always get frustrated 'cuz I can't give anything a name.
04:52:15 <duerig> But I love the minimalism.
04:53:49 <calamari> yeah, me too.. that's what I like best about it
04:55:59 <calamari> rail seems cool.. I've wanted to create a lang like that, I was thinking of wires, but didn't do it because then it seemed like a circuit simulator, and I'm not that good with electronics
04:56:15 <duerig> I also like that bf is Turing Complete. So all you have to do to prove something TC is to write an interpreter for bf.
04:57:00 <duerig> calamari, that is why I chose to do a railroad-type thing. That way there is only one part of the board that is active at any moment.
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05:14:25 <duerig> What is the word of the day?
05:15:42 <Arrogant> As in, I have economics homework.
05:16:42 <GregorR> Pneumenoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.
05:16:48 <GregorR> As in "Doc, I have pneumenoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis!"
05:17:15 <GregorR> Prefix "pneumeno" meaning lung...
05:17:22 <GregorR> Prefix "ultramicroscopic" meaning very very small ...
05:17:31 <GregorR> Prefix "Silico" meaning silica ....
05:17:41 <GregorR> Prefix "volcano" meaning ... volcano ....
05:18:03 <duerig> I remember in second grade, a teacher gave us that as an extra credit question on a spelling quiz. Entirely unfair. Nobody got it right.
05:18:44 <duerig> My favorite word is sesquipedalian.
05:19:04 <duerig> It is an adjective, and if you know what it means, then it probably describes you.
05:19:56 <duerig> I love self-referential stuff.
05:26:37 <Arrogant> It can refer to three different equally awesome things.
05:27:12 <duerig> Hmm... Language, snake, what's the third?
05:29:04 <duerig> Though frankly, I'd rather meet the language than the snake in a dark alley.
05:30:04 <Arrogant> Unless it were a robot powered by the language while playing Monty tunes while killing you.
05:30:18 <duerig> Ouch. Now there is a good thing gone wrong.
05:30:43 <duerig> *shudder* Dying as the 'spam' song plays...
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06:42:44 <GregorR> Yay, I was K-Lined from IRCHighway!
06:42:59 <GregorR> I mean "F*** YOU IRCHIGHWAY WHAT THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOUR F***ING DROIDS"
06:43:36 <GregorR> Session limit - my IP is shared through an apartment complex >_<
06:45:28 <duerig> I've only ever seen natting to a few computers.
06:45:36 <duerig> Not to a whole apartment complex.
06:46:33 <duerig> On the plus side, if some snooper catches you surfing porn, all they know is that somebody from that complex is surfing porn.
06:46:46 <duerig> If I surf porn, the evil conspiracy *knows* it was me.
06:47:09 <duerig> Unless the gateway keeps logs of course.
06:47:09 <GregorR> My last message before being K-Lined:
06:47:20 <GregorR> * grables masturbates out to: Anal Sluts Have Enema Party - NastyCo [0:15/3:23:00]
06:47:25 <lament> duerig: YOU EVIL PORN SURFER
06:47:50 <duerig> Notice the if then. I was stating causality, not admitting culpability. *grin*
06:48:53 <GregorR> I made sure to really leave my mark on the channel before disappearing :P
06:49:31 <Arrogant> Does anyone actually care if you were surfing porn though?
06:49:47 <duerig> The evil conspiracy cares. They care about *everything*.
06:50:06 <duerig> So that they can blackmail me with it if I decide to run for public office without their support.
06:51:17 <duerig> And the evil conspiracy obviously exists because (a) there is evil in the world, which means that they are evil and (b) it is not immediately apparent who they are, therefore it is a conspiracy. :-)
06:51:39 <calamari> duerig: what country are you in?
06:52:00 <GregorR> Country division is just a product of the evil conspiracy.
06:52:27 <duerig> I live in the home of conspiracy theories: The U.S.A.
06:52:52 <duerig> There was a book I read once about how pervasive conspiracy theories are in U.S. culture.
06:53:11 <lament> was it the Illuminatus?
06:53:18 <calamari> duerig: then you should know that any election can be bought.. doesn't matter how much porn you surf ;)
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06:55:06 <Robdgreat> I just dug up a page from an old email about conspiracies
06:55:24 <duerig> Untrue. Adlai Stevenson had lots of money. And he lost 'cuz Nixon called him an egghead. It is surprising how easy it is to smear someone irrevocably.
06:55:38 <duerig> The previous comment was in response to calamari.
06:55:47 <duerig> Robdgreat, link please?
06:56:56 <calamari> duerig: Perot got a lot of votes in 1996 due to pure cash flow.. nobody even seemed to care about his ideas, but they all knew his name because of advertising, etc
06:57:08 <Robdgreat> http://www.crystalinks.com/conspiracy.html
06:57:33 <calamari> whatever.. doesn't really matter :)
06:58:08 * GregorR wonders for how long he's being K-Lined from IRCHighway ...
06:58:12 <duerig> calamari: Both I think. But note that he got lots of votes, but still lost.
06:58:51 <calamari> nah the r/d just have more cash
07:00:27 <calamari> I'm somewhat anti-corporation.. I guess that doesn't make me a very good libertarian :)
07:01:08 <lament> i eat libertarians for breakfast
07:01:35 <calamari> didn't know you were partial to human flesh..
07:01:39 <duerig> Nah. Too stringy. I like republicans 'cuz they tend to eat better.
07:03:10 <duerig> The previous line was a joke. I'm really not a cannibal.
07:03:10 <lament> duerig: yes, but i eat libertarians because i'm such a tough guy.
07:04:14 <duerig> You know, I always think it is really nifty when they make a movie out of conspiracy theories.
07:04:31 <duerig> The story of the movie is invariably better than the convoluted one in the conspiracy.
07:05:21 <Robdgreat> what did you think of Enemy of the State?
07:06:06 <duerig> Not bad. I don't remember the secret, though. Some video?
07:06:26 <duerig> I liked at the end how the two tech guys were able to escape punishment, but the head guy gets nailed.
07:07:01 <duerig> I thought that is funny. Usually, the minions are killed but the evil overlord escapes. :)
07:10:48 <duerig> But a really good example is The Matrix. It is much cooler to think that reality is some post-apocalyptic landscape run by machines and that everything is just a VR simulation then it is to think that some jerk in government decided to dress all of their agents in the same black suit.
07:11:37 <Robdgreat> I just always wanted to hear Elrond say "Misssster Annnndersonnnn"
07:11:55 <duerig> Hahaha. A lot of people wanted that.
07:14:49 <duerig> Grr. I hate waiting for an answer. You apply for something or submit something and they say 'We'll let you know in a couple of months'.
07:16:01 <calamari> ask your psychic and find out more quickly ;)
07:16:32 <GregorR> EgoBot: You're my only friend :(
07:16:47 <EgoBot> GregorR: I know, loser. Don't touch me.
07:17:10 <duerig> Aww, cheer up. Everbody, group hug!
07:18:02 <calamari> duerig: if I knew glass I'd write you a magic 8-ball you could ask.. hehe
07:18:21 <GregorR> You /quit, and your /quit message tells other people to /quit in souch a way that they tell other people to /quit ...
07:18:56 <GregorR> /quit /quit If you don't type this you're totally a fag!
07:18:58 <duerig> calamari: Deciding the future isn't tractable.
07:19:07 <GregorR> Oh damn, that loses /quits :P
07:19:58 <calamari> duerig: lol.. you thought I was serious?
07:20:53 <duerig> GregorR, it won't work. You'll do that in the '#ManlyMan' channel, it will be suddenly vacated, and then disruptive elements will become operators and sieze control. Think of the havoc!?!?! :-)
07:21:20 <GregorR> But the important part is, they will be in other channels, and broadcast the quit message there as well.
07:21:27 <GregorR> Where, in turn, other people will quit.
07:21:54 <GregorR> I guess I can control the level of recursion :P
07:21:56 <duerig> What about people like me who would just laugh at the people who '/quit'? You'd never reach total depopulation.
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07:22:21 <GregorR> /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit If you don't type this you're totally a fag!
07:22:46 <GregorR> /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit If you don't type this (with all the /quits!) you're totally a fag!
07:22:46 <duerig> Actually, there is a fatal flaw.
07:22:59 <duerig> You just addressed it.
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07:24:22 <duerig> It didn't work, calamari.
07:24:38 <duerig> Either through apathy or through disagreement, nobody followed you. :-)
07:24:55 <GregorR> That's why it needs the fag factor ;)
07:25:01 <GregorR> /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit /quit If you don't type this (with all the /quits!) you're totally a fag!
07:25:29 <calamari> /quit /quit type this line with another /quit at the beginning or you're totally a fag!
07:26:02 <GregorR> But that makes it too complex.
07:26:54 <duerig> I dunno. The whole 'fag' thing is totally inconvincing.
07:27:14 <duerig> It makes whoever uses the message seem adolescent.
07:27:59 <duerig> It seems that it is doomed.
07:28:04 <duerig> Unless you have a cooperative audience.
07:28:38 <calamari> /quit /quit type this line with another /quit at the beginning or a kitten will be killed
07:28:58 <duerig> Along the same vein of thought, there is some key combination in mIrc, which causes somebody to quit. There are people who say to use this combination in response to requests for help.
07:28:59 * GregorR stops eating a kitten corpse for just long enough read that message.
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07:31:48 <duerig> This client sent me to channel '#2'.
07:32:02 <Robdgreat> when it tries to join a 0 channel, it quits
07:32:17 <Robdgreat> they don't approve anything anymore
07:32:20 <GregorR> With the proper prelude of course.
07:32:28 <duerig> I'm using some random 'ircII' program.
07:32:43 <Robdgreat> ircII is the epitome of effective simplicity
07:33:09 <calamari> rob: dunno.. ircii has a pretty complex scripting language
07:34:30 <calamari> I used to spend hours perfecting my startup script
07:34:45 <duerig> I'm just using whatever default one there is.
07:34:58 <calamari> had all sorts of crazy stuff in it.. entire programs even
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19:15:47 <jix> calamari: http://www.frappr.com/esolang
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19:37:56 <GregorR> At the edge of the yomama joke universe, there is only bash: http://www.bash.org/?572509
19:39:06 <GregorR> Why bash, whyyyyyyyyyyyy/!
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19:56:34 <NoOnE> Well, NoOnE is here.
20:02:18 <kipple> there are a lot of great quotes on bash.org, but I wonder how much of it is real
20:02:57 <GregorR> Why are people so skeptical? I'll bet that the vast majority is real.
20:04:09 <kipple> possibly. some of it just seems too "good" to be true... (but then again, reality is usually more extreme than anyones imagination)
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21:27:28 <jix> In order to build the Ada compiler (GNAT) you must already have GNAT installed.... YAY!
21:28:45 <jix> i'm going to stay with c++ for my bfgentextgen
21:44:52 <calamari> jix: there, now I'm on the map ;)
21:45:18 <jix> calamari: cool
21:45:59 <kipple> isn't arizona a bit dry for a calamari?
21:47:27 <calamari> nah... there is lots of water.. just look down a road on a hot day ;)
21:54:03 <kipple> wow. when I zoom in on the satelite map the arrow is placed just a couple of blocks from my house.
21:56:38 <jix> my arrow is on the correct x but on the wrong y position
22:05:04 <calamari> I guess that's considered to be the middle of the zip code ?
22:05:04 <calamari> wow the streets to the left of GregorR's pointer look like a navigation nightmare
22:05:04 <calamari> I now know where to deposit a dead body.. it'll never be found
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22:05:04 <kipple> I can understand that the map can be accurate when you use zip codes, but in my case (and anyone else outside the us) I could only enter the name of the city, so its just a coincidence that it was so accurate .)
22:05:04 <calamari> please improve my grammar.. it is terrible today: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_Portal
22:05:35 <kipple> hmm. if you zoom in on the satelite map you can see that Gergor lives under a tree.
22:22:30 <calamari> lol, adding the image duplicated my comments
22:23:14 <calamari> !bf ++++++++++[>++++>++++++++++>+++++++<<<-]
22:23:14 <calamari> >>>++.<+.+++++++..+++.<++++.<+++[>----<-]>. >++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<<+++[>++++<-]>++.<++++++++++.
22:23:39 <calamari> !bf ++++++++++[>++++>++++++++++>+++++++<<<-]>>>++.<+.+++++++..+++.<++++.<+++[>----<-]>. >++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<<+++[>++++<-]>++.<++++++++++.
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22:41:45 <GregorR> Why is egobot suddenly taking 99% of my CPU ...
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22:43:07 <Robdgreat> you aren't trying genetic bf programs on it, are you?
22:43:20 -!- EgoBot has joined.
22:43:33 <Robdgreat> Just trying to help make a diagnosis :P
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22:43:49 <Arrogant> I want to make a halloween language
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22:54:30 <GregorR> Mm, squiddy underscores ...
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23:36:59 <GregorR> BTW, the reason that the area west of me looks so difficult to navigate is that there are hills there ... so it is :-P
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23:39:03 * calamari_ is now online via his laptop.. yay!
23:39:51 <GregorR> I like how I'm the only pic in our Frappr
23:45:40 <calamari_> okay switching back to the main comp :)
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23:56:56 * Sgep has to leave...
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23:58:29 <GregorR> And now, for an interpretive piece I like to call "Sgep"
23:58:57 <GregorR> <Sgep> Got to go, see you later.
23:59:02 <GregorR> * Sgep has left freenode ()