00:02:20 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85584&oldid=85580 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-34) /* Non-alphabetic */ m
00:05:08 <esolangs> [[Knight]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85585&oldid=85545 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) /* Links */ Ctas
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02:18:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Uellenberg * New user account
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02:24:04 <Uellenberg> Hey there, I found out about the esolangs wiki recently and while I sort of understand the concept of an esolang, I'm still a bit unsure if this qualifies as one: https://github.com/uellenberg/REXS.
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02:34:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85586&oldid=85501 * Uellenberg * (+243) /* Introductions */
02:35:09 <Corbin> Yeah, sure. Esolangs don't have to be Turing-complete to be esoteric.
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03:18:30 <esolangs> [[REXS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85587 * Uellenberg * (+3212) Create stub page
03:19:20 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85588&oldid=85584 * Uellenberg * (+11) Add REXS to list
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03:46:54 <esolangs> [[REXS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85589&oldid=85587 * Uellenberg * (+1418) Add control sets
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04:07:24 <esolangs> [[REXS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85590&oldid=85589 * Uellenberg * (+57) Add links to parameters
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04:31:32 <esolangs> [[REXS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85591&oldid=85590 * Uellenberg * (+2313) Add most of REXS' functions
04:35:16 <esolangs> [[REXS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85592&oldid=85591 * Uellenberg * (+26) Add implemented category
04:52:03 <arseniiv> mildly satisfying, what do you think?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Indian_pigments.jpg
04:55:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Metabox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85593&oldid=85583 * Bangyen * (+184)
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05:20:25 <esolangs> [[REXS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85594&oldid=85592 * Uellenberg * (-35) Remove function grouping
05:24:41 <esolangs> [[REXS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85595&oldid=85594 * Uellenberg * (+418) Add the functional parts of match
05:35:34 <esolangs> [[REXS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85596&oldid=85595 * Uellenberg * (+911) Add before and after functions
05:35:46 <esolangs> [[REXS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85597&oldid=85596 * Uellenberg * (-9) Remove stub template
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05:44:17 <int-e> Mmm this month's Ponder This isn't very exciting. (It may still be hard or easy, depends on what you know.)
05:44:29 <HackEso> The password of the month is moving to Libera Chat.
05:45:12 <int-e> Tempting, but I think I'm getting too many of those.
05:46:11 <int-e> . o O ( `learn The password of the month is tempting. <-- An obvious candidate, now. )
05:47:08 <esolangs> [[REXS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85598&oldid=85597 * Uellenberg * (+670) Add IRC example
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06:03:31 <Uellenberg> I'm a bit confused with the thematic category. My language is built to compile to Regex, rather than actually be ran, so is Regex an applicable theme there?
06:10:24 <int-e> Hmm. I'd say it's not thematic, but could argue either way; it's not a very well-defined category. Basically I think regular expressions *are* a programming paradigm.
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06:23:36 <int-e> The distinction between paradigms and themes isn't easy either... to pick an example... https://esolangs.org/wiki/Babalang is in the "Thematic" category, but should it be? Isn't Baba is You more of a novel programming paradigm?
06:33:45 <arseniiv> `learn The password of the month is tempting in retrospect
06:33:50 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is tempting in retrospect
06:40:48 <esolangs> [[REXS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85599&oldid=85598 * Uellenberg * (+26) Add output only category
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08:28:38 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85600&oldid=85424 * Dominicentek * (+66)
08:28:58 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85601&oldid=85600 * Dominicentek * (+4) Added a newline
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09:27:51 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85602&oldid=85601 * Dominicentek * (+724) Added 2 instructions
09:28:44 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85603&oldid=85602 * Dominicentek * (+17) Added nowiki element for the note
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10:43:00 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85604&oldid=85603 * Dominicentek * (+0) Changed the register instruction to a colon
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11:27:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:Metabox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85605&oldid=85593 * Batata * (+126)
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11:41:18 <esolangs> [[Metabox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85606&oldid=85548 * Batata * (+154)
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12:44:52 <HackEso> The password of the month is tempting in retrospect
12:45:47 <wib_jonas> we should start calling car rear view mirrors "retrospecters" or "restrospectres" for cars with the driver's seat on the left or right respectively.
12:46:19 <int-e> would that make car drivers retrospectors?
12:46:56 <wib_jonas> if they just change lanes whenever and expect other cars to dodge them, then they aren't
12:47:02 <int-e> Or omnispectors, maybe, if they're properly circumspect?
12:47:12 <int-e> And we ignore blind angles and all that crap?
12:48:24 <wib_jonas> hmm, if a driver only uses the retrospecter to apply make-up on their face, are they still a retrospector?
12:49:55 <wib_jonas> and are autospectors the ones that watch themselves or the ones that watch for cars?
13:02:49 <wib_jonas> admittedly it would make more sense to copy the french terminology, making the rear-view mirrors "retrovisors" instead of "retrospecters", because they probably know what those latin roots mean and picked the appropriate ones
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15:36:26 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85607&oldid=84223 * Dominicentek * (+527) Added A Slow Language implementation
15:40:26 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85608&oldid=85607 * Dominicentek * (+1) Now with a new line!
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15:53:19 <Taneb> What do you mean dead?
15:54:30 <int-e> Taneb: how dare you refute the premise :-O
15:57:21 <int-e> fungot: is there life after death?
15:57:21 <fungot> int-e: lolcode is a bad term. too much, just get started on the 15th.
15:57:33 <int-e> fungot: is there life *in* death?
15:57:34 <fungot> int-e: in all seriousness, it's more silly than a bit disturbing. even moreso is the fact that it's recursive make " x if ( 12) ( ( lambda ( fnord
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16:08:26 <zzo38> I think that this channel is not "so dead"
16:29:20 <Taneb> zzo38: I fully agree
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17:02:49 <nakilon> it's some undocumented meme
17:03:00 <nakilon> there are people randomly coming to #ruby just to ask if it's dead
17:03:20 <nakilon> guys even had to add some answer to the website
17:05:42 <keegan> BSD is dying, Netcraft confirms it!
17:08:19 <nakilon> Minecraft, Nethack, Minehack?
17:09:37 <b_jonas> it's not dead, sir VilgotanL, it's just pining for the fjords
17:14:30 <b_jonas> nakilon: keegan means NetBSD
17:22:14 <nakilon> about why there is no Minehack yet
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19:12:47 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Finite state automata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85609 * Oshaboy * (+743) Created page with "Clarification needed, What criteria does a language need to be included here. Do Finite State Machines need to be translated into the language? Or is it the other way (Which..."
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19:44:38 <esolangs> [[1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85610 * AmNow * (+1192) Created page with "1 is an esoteric programming language made for the purpose of designing adventure games, made [[User:AmNow]] 1 is based off of decision shrubs. == Commands == === Sw..."
19:45:30 <esolangs> [[User:AmNow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85611&oldid=85579 * AmNow * (+34) added lang
19:46:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85612&oldid=85588 * AmNow * (+12) added lang
19:54:43 <esolangs> [[1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85613&oldid=85610 * AmNow * (+4) grammar correciton
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20:52:53 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85614&oldid=85604 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Interpreter */ ul
20:54:58 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85615&oldid=85608 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-16) /* A Slow Language */ Simplify link
20:57:47 <esolangs> [[1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85616&oldid=85613 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+90) Cat link
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20:59:19 <esolangs> [[MoveIt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85617&oldid=85581 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* Spam #s */ Yrogetac
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00:05:22 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85618&oldid=85543 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Grammar */
00:06:41 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85619&oldid=85618 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Grammar */
00:08:28 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85620&oldid=85619 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Grammar */
00:12:59 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85621&oldid=85620 * PixelatedStarfish * (+6) /* Grammar */
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02:30:53 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85622&oldid=85621 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Grammar */
02:32:34 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85623&oldid=85622 * PixelatedStarfish * (+16)
02:33:48 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85624&oldid=85623 * PixelatedStarfish * (+10)
02:36:48 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85625&oldid=85624 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* The grid */
02:45:59 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85626&oldid=85625 * PixelatedStarfish * (+19) /* Restrictions */
02:46:26 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85627&oldid=85626 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* Permitted */
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05:42:31 <zzo38> Why doesn't Wikipedia use data templates for comparison tables? Entering the tables directly makes it much more difficult to edit, I think.
05:50:26 <Corbin> Cannot wait for Wikifunctions to be a thing.
05:51:26 <Corbin> The official name for "Abstract Wikipedia". The core idea is to use Wikidata to fill in templates for many different pages.
05:56:31 <zzo38> I meant just using the standard template feature, but that can work too I suppose
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07:49:04 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_arithmetic#Arithmetic_undefinability
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07:49:21 <riv> I didn't expect posts theorem to come up here, very interesting
07:49:47 <riv> I recently studied the 'uniform' halting problem and how a uniform halting oracle is stronger than a halting oracle
07:49:55 <riv> which is I guess a special case of posts theorem
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07:52:54 <riv> people in #math keep talking about godels theorem, in particular the idea that the godel sentence is 'true' [in fuzzy terms] but unprovable
07:53:00 <riv> and its making me doubt things
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07:53:35 <riv> im not sure why the topic keeps coming up
07:54:02 <riv> but it seems kind of like nonsense. you can adjoin G or you can adjoin ~G..
07:54:27 <riv> i thought there was no standard model of arithmetic but I need to read more on true arithmetic
07:56:19 <shachaf> What is the uniform halting problem?
07:57:02 <shachaf> It's maybe kind of nonsense but you can kind of see what they're getting at too, right?
07:58:01 <riv> I understand it but i don't like it
07:58:39 <riv> uniform halting problem is "does this turing machine halt on all inputs"
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08:00:14 <riv> a halting oracle can't construct this
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11:22:26 <esolangs> [[1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85628&oldid=85616 * AmNow * (+0) modified commands
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12:11:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Oshaboy * uploaded "[[File:Truth machine StegFuck.png]]"
12:12:09 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85630&oldid=85354 * Oshaboy * (+56) Added StegFuck
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12:34:05 <esolangs> [[Decision shrub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85631&oldid=79114 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* See also */ m
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13:07:53 <esolangs> [[Fumble]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85632&oldid=47167 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+102) /* Example programs */ Cat
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13:16:49 <wib_jonas> fungot, which spelling is correct in English, "flamingos" or "flamingoes"?
13:16:49 <fungot> wib_jonas: a few do. at least now atm i'm wondering how would a flex file look for, just a
13:20:13 <fizzie> fungot: Are you trying to write natural language processing code using Flex again?
13:20:14 <fungot> fizzie: they kill each other on what would be the small circle of elites while common lisp would handle reader macros.
13:35:29 <esolangs> [[JBFM7L]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85633&oldid=85577 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) /* External links */ chats
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14:02:31 <esolangs> [[DDDD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85634 * Andrew3335 * (+773) Created page with "'''DDDD''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] whose only data structure is a single [[deque]]. It was created by [[User:Andrew3335]] in 2021 and is intended to be used fo..."
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14:46:23 <esolangs> [[School]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85635&oldid=84797 * AceKiron * (+18)
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15:08:51 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85636 * Rphii * (+5486) created
15:10:06 <esolangs> [[User:Rphii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85637&oldid=85557 * Rphii * (+56)
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15:15:17 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85638&oldid=85636 * Rphii * (+16) /* Loop, if and invert */ small clarification
15:15:59 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85639&oldid=85638 * Rphii * (+3) /* Loop, if and invert */ grammar
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15:41:20 <esolangs> [[StegFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85640&oldid=83462 * Oshaboy * (+50)
15:41:39 <esolangs> [[StegFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85641&oldid=85640 * Oshaboy * (+2)
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15:49:49 <esolangs> [[Braincopter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85642&oldid=35650 * Oshaboy * (+107) Halting condition clarification
16:02:03 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85643&oldid=85639 * Rphii * (+4) /* Instructions */
16:04:46 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85644&oldid=85271 * Tomhe * (+138) /* See Also */ categories
16:05:43 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85645&oldid=85643 * Rphii * (+13) clarification
16:06:20 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85646&oldid=85645 * Rphii * (+1) /* Variables */ typo
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16:18:18 <b_jonas> fungot, what's the difference between "deburr" and "dechaff" (verbs)
16:18:18 <fungot> b_jonas: is rfc 1459 the client one?)
16:28:55 <b_jonas> no, 2812 is the client one
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16:36:28 <fizzie> Yeah, 1459 is just "the one", it was all in one for that.
16:51:01 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85647&oldid=85612 * Rphii * (+14) /* A */ add Ascii
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18:01:19 <nakilon> arseniiv was it you with a love to procedural generation? I like this one https://www.reddit.com/r/generative/comments/oc8vud/confined_3d_noise_rotation_on_a_grid/
18:02:16 <riv> did anyone want to talk about uniform halting?
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18:02:56 <nakilon> rfc documents have some standartized format, I wonder if it's possible to process them enough to make some Q/A system for quick referencing via a bot
18:05:41 <nakilon> judging from how google and yandex already provide snippets I guess google could give the answers to questions like "what are the field of Atom item?", "what is BNF of IRCv3 tag?
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18:14:41 <nakilon> the next cyberpunk movie should have such paintings on the walls
18:14:54 <nakilon> I would buy one... oh with an ability to edit it!
18:15:14 <riv> google is very good
18:15:33 <riv> I sometimes want to use man pages, but i find it so difficult to find what i want to know and i give up and google works better
18:15:44 <riv> I think that all man pages should be processed and searchable by something like google
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18:28:23 <riv> The proof of rices theorem is surprisingly involved
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18:29:19 <hanif> hi riv. nice to see you're interested in the uniform halting problem (you used to be rain1, right?)
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18:30:40 <hanif> are you still following soare's book?
18:31:15 <riv> i haven't studied it since last time,
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18:42:16 <nakilon> that's what I learned about linux the first
18:43:33 <nakilon> what you are looking for is either in 1 page long --help, or is undocumented and only one person on the planet knows it but didn't yet write it anywhere
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19:04:17 <nakilon> man pages are btw indexed by google, the sse64 website or something like that
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20:26:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Movesum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85648&oldid=84189 * Bangyen * (+164) /* Are integers signed or unsigned? */
20:34:41 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85649&oldid=85644 * Tomhe * (+0) /* Flipping a whole word */
20:36:50 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85650&oldid=85649 * Tomhe * (+0) /* Segments & Reserve */
20:43:51 <zzo38> I think some programs have their own numbers to indicate cryptographic hash algorithms. (Some programs use names instead of numbers.) I use the multicodec numbers in all of my new stuff. Hopefully, this will allow interoperability with different programs, too.
20:44:18 <riv> how do you expect it to allow interoperability?
20:45:06 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85651&oldid=85650 * Tomhe * (+135) /* Memory - how can we implement variables? */ - better explained
20:45:56 <zzo38> For one thing, with file formats. If a file format uses a number to indicate a hash algorithm, and the multicodec numbers are used, then when new hashes are added, everyone can agree what numbers to use for what hash algorithm. Other thing, if somehow a number needs to be passed from one library or program to another, you do not need to use a translation table.
20:46:02 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85652&oldid=85651 * Tomhe * (+6) /* Output */ typo
20:47:26 <zzo38> Different libraries might have their own names for constants, although if multicodec numbers are used then the values of these constants will match. For example, I have a library with FOSIMP_SHA1, FOSIMP_SHA3_256, and FOSIMP_MD5. FOSIMP_SHA1 is defined as 0x11, and any other program that uses multicodec numbers will (if it supports SHA-1 hashes at all, which it might not) also use 0x11.
20:48:26 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85653&oldid=85652 * Tomhe * (-3) /* Input */
20:49:37 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_arithmetic#Arithmetic_undefinability i am curious to learn about this
20:50:02 <riv> zzo38, why not just use sha256
20:50:15 <riv> and no need to specify which hash. always sha256
20:52:16 <zzo38> riv: For one thing, some things require different hashes. (Specifically, Fossil doesn't use SHA2-256; it uses the three hashes I mentioned.)
20:52:18 <b_jonas> riv: because cryptographic hashes only live for like twelve years usually, so that only works if your software's lifetime is shorter than that
20:52:48 <int-e> riv: if truth were definable, then we could find a fixed point of f |-> not True(f), which would satisfy [f] <--> not True(f) <--> not [f].
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20:53:31 <int-e> riv: Well, taking all the machinery of Gödel and others for granted.
20:54:26 <zzo38> (It does not use MD5 to identify anything, but only as an extra verification. Still, for the interfaces which calculate the hashes and identify the algorithm used in hashes that are already computed, it helps to specify these things. Specifically, they are the first argument of the fosimp_hash and fosimp_hash_stream functions, and the last argument of fosimp_set_hash.)
20:55:09 <int-e> riv: still, that's the core proof idea.
20:55:11 <zzo38> Also, the fosimp_hash_stream function allows defining an echo stream. I don't know which (if any) other hashing libraries include such a capability.
20:58:02 <int-e> riv: ret-conned corollary: Since provability is definable, it can't coincide with Truth, hence PA is incomplete. ;-)
20:58:41 <riv> very very nice
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21:37:31 <zzo38> I think that truth may be partially definable, although not entirely.
21:52:30 <riv> truth implies provability
21:52:50 <riv> but i don't really understand this true arithmetic thing
21:53:03 <riv> maybe it's a set that is singled out using second order logic
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22:07:13 <int-e> riv: "truth" is understood with respect to the standard model of PA (which you can construct in your favorite set theory... so it's really not an arbitrary model of PA. The notion /may/ still be relative to the model of set theory... it's confusing.)
22:08:00 <int-e> riv: And truth (in a fixed model) doesn't imply provability, that's the whole point of incompleteness.
22:08:25 <riv> oh i meant the other way around
22:09:17 <int-e> Ah. That makes more sense (it's soundness of the formal system.)
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22:10:22 <zzo38> I think that provability implies truth, but truth does not imply provability (the truth of some statement might be unprovable or even undefined).
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22:11:51 <zzo38> I had defined true as: if a set S of true statements are assumed to be theorems and from that (and the rest of the system) you can prove X, then X is true.
22:12:26 <zzo38> There may be statements whose truth is unknown or unprovable; just because the previous definition does not make a statement true does not necessarily mean it isn't true; its truth could be undefined instead.
22:15:22 <zzo38> Also, true and false are not necessarily mutually exclusive (although they will be if the system is consistent), since I will define false as: if you have a true statement X and another statement Y, and from X and Y you can prove all well-formed statements, then Y is false.
22:16:05 <zzo38> (Again, whether or not a statement is false might be undecidable or even undefined, just as whether or not a statement is true.)
22:16:50 <zzo38> Does that make sense?
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23:44:37 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85654&oldid=85646 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+69) cats
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08:00:49 <shachaf> int-e: I had another application for distinguished points: Say you have a permutation f on 2^64 with a single cycle, and a starting point x, and f^n(p), and you want to find n. Naively it might seem like you have to do it serially, but you can just start at various points and build a map of the subgraph of distinguished points.
08:01:34 <shachaf> This is similar to a problem I was actually trying to figure out, though that one turned out to be much more easily parallelizable.
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08:07:40 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85655&oldid=85654 * Dominicentek * (+1) Fixed a typo
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09:29:22 <nakilon> after two undocumented manipulations
09:30:45 <nakilon> 1. after https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/userns-remap/ you have to chown -R the mounted volume to that fake uid otherwise OS does not understand what user is trying to access it
09:31:52 <nakilon> 2. there are dozens of questions why dockerized nginx does not use the docker built-in 127.0.0.11 resolver so you have to hardcode it in nginx conf location directive
09:32:16 <nakilon> no one knows the answer why
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09:41:15 <nakilon> you know how to understand that you should start closing tabs in chrome?
09:41:34 <nakilon> it's when you pin the tab and instead of becoming narrower it becomes wider
10:23:09 <int-e> "When a process accesses a file, its user and group IDs are mapped into the initial user namespace for the purpose of permission checking and assigning IDs when creating a file. When a process retrieves file user and group IDs via stat(2), the IDs are mapped in the opposite direction, to produce values relative to the process user and group ID mappings."
10:23:16 <int-e> (man user_namespaces)
10:24:52 <int-e> "This re-mapping is transparent to the container, but introduces some configuration complexity in situations where the container needs access to resources on the Docker host, such as bind mounts into areas of the filesystem that the system user cannot write to." is thoroughly uninformative though.
10:30:23 <nakilon> aha, "some configuration complexity" that we won't explain how to solve
10:30:27 <int-e> shachaf: Right. Rainbow tables work for permutations as well as for pseudo-random functions.
10:31:04 <int-e> Oh and near the end, there's this pseudo-sentence: "For example, if volumes are mounted from the host, file ownership must be pre-arranged need read or write access to the volume contents."
10:31:28 <int-e> (Something went off the rails with the grammar there.)
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13:01:03 <arseniiv> I read somewhere about a neat (? you tell me) format for approximate rationals which represents rational numbers with an error as pairs of rational numbers of bounded denominators: lesser the error, lesser the bound. It was claimed this way is better for some things but I forgot which. What do you think, and have you encountered something like that?
13:01:30 <arseniiv> pairs are lower and upper bound to the number thus represented
13:04:00 <arseniiv> obviously, one pro is that you can have as small an error as you want, paying with size of denominators and numerators. Hm I need to remember where did I read the specifics which problem was the author solving with this format
13:05:40 <arseniiv> OTOH the arithmetic might end up slow?.. Not just due to occasional bignums, just due to software implementation of this thing vs. for instance hardware floating-point
13:16:14 <Corbin> Can't help but think of continued fractions. There's an upper and a lower bound, and each coefficient alternates between improving the upper bound and lower bound.
13:20:21 <nakilon> this says there is something called Raku that uses "limited-precision fractional" but it's just fixed bit length limit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_data_type#Language_support
13:21:39 <nakilon> yeah something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continued_fraction#Best_rational_approximations
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13:24:46 <arseniiv> Corbin: ah yes, connecting those might be interesting
13:26:51 <arseniiv> nakilon: yeah, continued fractions are usually used for approximations, though there are some other uses I don’t remember right now. There is even a good arithmetic with them when implemented as iterators, which uses several related Möbius transformation neat things
13:28:03 <nakilon> IIRC projecteuler had a lot of problems with continued fractions
13:28:07 <nakilon> I was just skipping them lol
13:35:15 <int-e> Has anyone tried to use the github copilot for projecteuler? Also, has the copilot be sued for copyright infringement yet?
13:36:44 <nakilon> wow, automatized bug copypaster
13:37:14 <int-e> There are some egregious examples around... https://nitter.fdn.fr/mitsuhiko/status/1410886329924194309#m is an unambiguous copyright violation, and https://gist.github.com/0xabad1dea/7026665beb6de41c17c89beebfb1bb90 is ridiculous on another level (ask yourself: would you rather debug that code or start from scratch?)
13:46:44 <int-e> Heh, imagine the warning label "may contain code produced by AI"
13:55:14 <riv> today I learned that (x + y) - y can be 1 or 2 bits off in floating point
13:55:22 <riv> possibly more bits off depending on the size of the numbers
13:55:33 <riv> floating point is such a great hack
13:55:39 <riv> who would have thought of this
13:55:58 <riv> making a floating point number type that somehow works well for almost all applications
13:56:18 <riv> i think lua uses floating points for tagged unions
13:56:26 <riv> explointing the many NaNs
13:57:46 <riv> lol @ copilot stuff
14:09:05 <oerjan> > (0.1 + 1e100) -1e100
14:09:55 <oerjan> riv: it's pretty obvious that you can't keep anything with a big enough size difference
14:11:15 <oerjan> 1 or 2 bits sounds about right if they are almost the same size
14:11:43 <int-e> > (44.614 + 2^52) - 2^52
14:12:19 <riv> is that a trick to round a number to integer
14:12:32 <riv> > (1231231.122 + 2^52) - 2^52
14:12:36 <riv> > (1231231.722 + 2^52) - 2^52
14:13:12 <int-e> yes, with some severe limitations
14:14:30 <int-e> (basically it's restricted to the [0,2^52] range of numbers, and it depends on the current FPU rounding mode)
14:14:51 <int-e> and of course it's only for binary IEEE double precision floating point numbers
14:15:05 <int-e> which have a 52 bit mantissa
14:15:08 <oerjan> perhaps it technically works for > 2^52 as well?
14:15:17 <oerjan> (because those _are_ integers)
14:15:34 <Corbin> Note that Kahan has a classic technique for extending addition to work cleanly throughout the range of floats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahan_summation_algorithm
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14:19:27 <oerjan> (2^52 + 1 + 2^52) - 2^52
14:19:33 <oerjan> > (2^52 + 1 + 2^52) - 2^52
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14:22:16 <int-e> > (2^52 + 1.0 + 2^52) - 2^52 == 2^52 + 1
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14:35:54 <nakilon> > (2^52 + 1 + 2^52) - 2^52
14:36:05 <nakilon> > (2^52 + 1.0 + 2^52) - 2^52
14:36:31 <nakilon> > (2^52 + 1 + 2^52) - 2^52 - (2^52 + 1)
14:39:06 <oerjan> too long since i've done haskell
14:39:10 <int-e> > (2^52 + 1 + 2^52) - 2^52 - (2^52 + 1) :: Double
14:40:19 <int-e> writing 1.0 is a cheap way to get a Double in many cases (by default type rules)
14:42:35 <nakilon> why does it says it's free? https://www.wolfram.com/engine/
14:44:54 <int-e> because you don't have to pay for it as long as you don't use it for anything useful?
14:46:11 <nakilon> Mathematica never was free
14:46:25 <nakilon> looks like now the GUI is what you pay for
14:47:39 <nakilon> oh damn, it just gives you two keys that have to be validated with website
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15:53:10 <b_jonas> will there be an ICFP contest 2021?
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16:03:57 <Taneb> b_jonas: I think I heard there would be
16:04:10 <Taneb> https://icfpcontest2021.github.io/ next weekend
16:08:36 <b_jonas> oh! so they didn't get the usual domain name http://icfpcontest.org/ for some reason?
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16:39:53 <nakilon> it was github.io the last year too IIRC
16:41:47 <^[> nakilon: Raku is Larry Wall's latest esolang.
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17:22:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * OrichalcumCosmonaut * New user account
17:28:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85656&oldid=85586 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+313) /* Introductions */
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18:44:36 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85657&oldid=85655 * Rphii * (+128) cleaned it up a little bit
18:48:11 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85658&oldid=85657 * Rphii * (+52) /* Initialization */ clean-up
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19:19:03 <velik> "[ echo \ruby 7+2"
19:19:07 <b_jonas> \ruby print %"[ echo \ruby 7+2"
19:19:10 <velik> [ echo [CR]uby 7+2nil
19:19:37 <b_jonas> \ruby print %q"[ echo \ruby 7+2"
19:19:40 <velik> [ echo \ruby 7+2nil
19:19:49 <b_jonas> \ruby print %q"[ echo \ruby 7+";2
19:46:19 <arseniiv> <riv> i think lua uses floating points for tagged unions => cool
19:47:08 <imode> floating points for tagged unions?
19:47:58 <riv> https://anniecherkaev.com/the-secret-life-of-nan
19:49:03 <imode> if a signal is available, it'll be used..
19:53:10 <keegan> I have some Arduino libraries that return NaN for "sensor not found" which I find rather distasteful, but such is life
19:53:51 <int-e> no available number
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19:56:59 <fizzie> In Chicken, (number? +nan.0) => #t, which makes sense but just feels a bit off anyway.
20:03:35 <fizzie> fungot: Do you use any floats?
20:04:03 <int-e> fungot: do you prefer rafts?
20:04:03 <fungot> int-e: the abbreviation is not really a simple macro to write if or cond expressions.
20:11:46 <int-e> fungot: what will you do once you reach the floating point?
20:11:46 <fungot> int-e: if you're just talking nonsense now to fuck with their brains", right?") and it only needs some way of specifying arguments.
20:15:43 <fungot> oerjan: hmm what's fgk?
20:16:45 <int-e> oerjan: I know right? it's uncanny.
20:16:52 <fizzie> fungot: Fachverband Gebäude-Klima e. V. hth
20:16:52 <fungot> fizzie: i've gone in a short function of 3 lines can be one line :)
20:17:11 <int-e> Wow, air conditioning.
20:18:10 <int-e> fungot: was that a zzo38 quote...
20:18:11 <fungot> int-e: got a link to the user, or something... how can you beat that?)? i'm using a design of my esolang
20:18:33 <HackEso> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
20:22:35 <shachaf> int-e: People seem to be into rafts and they always talk about how Paxos is complicated, but I don't think it's so bad.
20:25:03 <int-e> What is... oh... well, I didn't consent to be drawn into a distributed computing discussion.
20:25:26 <int-e> All I wanted was to go with the flow.
20:27:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sebosh * New user account
20:29:11 <int-e> fungot: do you think people should figure out two-party consent first?
20:29:11 <fungot> int-e: i was quite surprised, when i were to use any of those so i guess the gcc version fnord an implementation of syntactic closures ( mit scheme)
20:29:49 <int-e> fungot: you lost me there
20:29:49 <fungot> int-e: and thanks for the ( 1) ( b1. 2))
20:29:58 <int-e> fungot: fine, be that way
20:29:59 <fungot> int-e: like funge98 ' ( ' foobar)? i'd like to
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20:30:04 <shachaf> I don't think consent and consensus are really the same thing.
20:30:52 <int-e> oh but there's a significant overlap
20:35:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85659&oldid=85656 * Sebosh * (+219)
20:37:04 <nakilon> \ruby eval's,m="",Hash.new(p=0);'+'+[-[<<[+[--->]-[<<<]]]>>>-]>-.---.>..>.<<<<-.<+.>>>>>.>.<<.<-.'.gsub(/./,?>=>'p+=1;',?<=>'p-=1;',?+=>'m[p]+=1;',?-=>'m[p]-=1;',?[=>'(',?]=>')until((m[p]&=255)==0);',?.=>'s<<m[p].chr;')+';fail s'
20:38:04 <nakilon> (based on https://gist.github.com/rdebath/3060affe89a739cf8624)
20:43:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85660&oldid=85647 * Sebosh * (+14)
20:45:02 <nakilon> "Please link only to existing article pages on this wiki.
20:47:57 <esolangs> [[Velik]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85661&oldid=84306 * Nakilon * (+72) added \ruby invocation example
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21:38:46 <esolangs> [[FIFOrth]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85662 * Sebosh * (+453) Created page with "==FIFOrth== FIFOrth is my first esolang and it is basically Forth but with a queue (FIFO) instead of a stack (LIFO). I am currently working on an interpreter, which I'll link..."
21:38:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Zero player rodent * uploaded "[[File:Eeklogo.png]]": The logo for Eek!
21:39:26 <esolangs> [[FIFOrth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85664&oldid=85662 * Sebosh * (+8)
21:40:39 <esolangs> [[Eek!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85665&oldid=85525 * Zero player rodent * (+4)
21:48:20 <int-e> https://nitter.fdn.fr/MalwareJake/status/1411351168643706886#m is an excellent idea.
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23:15:31 <Lykaina> just curious: is there still an #esoteric on freenode? i have no intention of connecting there to find out, so i ask.
23:32:48 <fizzie> Not registered, though.
23:33:01 <fizzie> (And with no ops or topic set.)
23:34:24 <fizzie> And there's been a total of one "conversation" after I stopped the logs, and that was about where everyone went (here).
23:34:38 <fizzie> So I guess "no" would be a perfectly arguable answer too.
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23:58:22 <esolangs> [[FIFOrth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85666&oldid=85664 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31) Work in language
01:18:03 <b_jonas> yeah, channels lazily spring into existence when someone joins them, so most channels exist by default
01:18:21 <b_jonas> though you might also ask how many freenodes there are right now. the last time I heard about them, there were three.
02:09:14 <esolangs> [[Godencode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85667&oldid=85444 * Plasmath * (+52) fixed errors in code
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03:43:17 <b_jonas> nakilon: can you make the \ruby plugin not print the return value if it's nil, so that you can easily write statements where the output comes from print or similar?
03:44:13 <b_jonas> \ruby "nakilon: otherwise we need stupid workarounds like this:"; print("hi"); class M; def inspect; ""; end; end; M.new
03:49:19 <esolangs> [[IRC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85668&oldid=34530 * B jonas * (+140) disambig hatnote
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04:12:04 <b_jonas> nakilon: also can you put the more recent source code to the github repo? it doesn't seem to have this ruby plugin yet
04:22:30 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(>/proc/1/fd/5 echo 2yUJcT8bEz8w )
04:22:34 <velik> sh: echo: I/O errorfalse
05:02:19 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85669&oldid=85574 * Spargle * (+37) /* The world's stupidest language. */
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06:53:02 <Guest65> So are people still using irc here? Very Cool
06:55:21 <myname> no, none of the people here are using irc
06:56:32 <int-e> there are people here?
06:57:13 <imode> this channel has people in it.
06:58:35 <Guest65> So i guess most of them are offline?
07:03:25 <zzo38> I still use IRC, at least. So do other people, I think
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07:09:57 <esolangs> [[Python is Magic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85670&oldid=85163 * OllyTheFoldy * (+2255) /* Example codes */
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08:25:29 <HackEso> 1/1:1012) <elliott> five fucks away from installing ubuntu \ 1123) <Bike> i'm ten pages in to an ethernet-phy manual and i'm pretty sure the internet is impossible
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09:09:56 <zzo38> Is there any keyboards with Hollerith chording? It was a idea I had, disliking touch screens, T9 input, and pushing the numbers until the letters come up that you want; I think that Hollerith chording is better.
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09:38:41 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think there were card punch keyboards that had a few keys that added specific column punches to a character, as the way to access rare characters that aren't on their layout, but they're still ordinary QWERTY layout
09:43:52 <b_jonas> for a full hollerith keyboard, I think you'd need something like an alphabetic layout (which exist) with nine letters per row (I don't know if that exists) like number row 0123456789 top row &ABCDEFGHI home row -JKLMNOPQR bottom row /STUVWXYZ and then a space bar, and there are a few modifiers around it like a symbol modifier that adds the 8 hole, and a lower case modifier that modifies the 12 11 10
09:43:58 <b_jonas> holes in a weird way, and a meta modifier that adds the 9 hole
09:44:04 <b_jonas> and of course some control buttons like one to start on a new card
09:47:07 <b_jonas> but I think these don't exist, because by the time most card punches were made, people were already used to the QWERTY and similar layouts, and wanted to type fast, so they made card punches with those layouts
09:51:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: wait, this chorded one with 12 keys for the 12 holes does exist: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/oldpunch.html#ekpunch
09:51:22 <b_jonas> it was probably used for mostly punching numbers
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10:07:03 <nakilon> b_jonas maybe not print the return if anything was printed?
10:07:42 <nakilon> b_jonas I didn't open source the ruby plugin yet because I'm not sure about its safety yet )
10:12:01 <b_jonas> nakilon: I think not printing nil would be more transparent and less fragile hidden magic, that's how irb and many other interactive interpreters work
10:12:11 <nakilon> found anything? ) what is that proc fd thing?
10:13:11 <b_jonas> nakilon: it's a socket and writing into it seemed to result in at least three apparently different results, including once a "thread error" that originates from your code, though it's possible that the fds of init aren't always numbered the same
10:13:27 <b_jonas> oh yeah, irb does print nil
10:13:58 <b_jonas> still, some other interactive interpreters work that way
10:15:19 <b_jonas> but then I don't particular like ruby, so I might be mostly using this to run other commands with eg. \ruby system %q(...)
10:15:33 <nakilon> and I won't say it's handy -- you don't clearly see if the command was ran at all; nil.to_s => "", nil.inspect => "nil" and IRB is inspecting the return value
10:16:07 <nakilon> I think I'll just hide the return value if stdout isn't empty
10:16:24 <nakilon> because usually you might not need both
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10:16:47 <b_jonas> we can probably work around any of that on our side
10:17:44 <b_jonas> does this still react to [wiki:nonsense] ?
10:18:35 <b_jonas> that seems important enough that I should mention it on the wiki
10:18:42 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:18:43 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
10:18:45 <perlbot> b_jonas: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:20:08 <b_jonas> (deliberate space before, just checking)
10:21:48 <velik> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload
10:22:03 <nakilon> b_jonas -- the OWASP of IRC
10:22:22 <esolangs> [[Velik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85671&oldid=85661 * B jonas * (+168) [wiki:
10:24:01 <b_jonas> no, I'm mostly just testing for bot loops and IRC-related exploits. I suspect the supposed container for this \ruby thing has holes, but I'd have to understand how the heck this https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/functions-framework-ruby library works to understand that, I probably won't bother much with that
10:25:52 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
10:26:28 <b_jonas> ^def prefixes ul (fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.)S
10:26:32 <fungot> fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
10:31:26 <b_jonas> though maybe now that I edit it, I should add > into them
10:31:40 <b_jonas> ^def prefixes ul (fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.)S
10:31:44 <fungot> fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
10:31:47 <perlbot> b_jonas: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:32:08 <b_jonas> perlbot learn prefixes are fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:32:09 <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored prefixes as fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:32:09 <fungot> b_jonas: i really like this situation and decided to put the registers into the ram... the other car is for the week/ day/ moment: why the emphasis on math starts to slowly fall away. like in fnord example on an o(1) operation, just like in qbf, you take the result modulo 10.
10:32:54 <b_jonas> `/bin/cat /hackenv/bin/prefixes
10:33:03 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:33:27 <b_jonas> `learn prefixes Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:33:27 <fungot> b_jonas: is set!'s scope bound to the command after the current character to the topmost a
10:33:30 <HackEso> Learned 'prefixe': prefixes Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:33:36 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:33:39 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:33:43 <perlbot> b_jonas: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:33:44 <fungot> fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
10:34:13 <b_jonas> perlbot compose [learn prefixes are Bot prefixes: [fact prefixes]]
10:34:13 <perlbot> b_jonas: Compose failed to find a plugin named: learn
10:34:18 <b_jonas> perlbot compose [fact learn prefixes are Bot prefixes: [fact prefixes]]
10:34:18 <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored prefixes as Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:34:25 <perlbot> b_jonas: Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
10:34:49 <perlbot> b_jonas: #esolangs logs are available at https://logs.esolangs.org/
10:35:51 <b_jonas> the tunes log seems to be logging the channel on one of the freenodes
10:36:40 <esolangs> [[Velik]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85672&oldid=85671 * Nakilon * (+145) added [wiki:...] helper example
10:38:00 <esolangs> [[Velik]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85673&oldid=85672 * Nakilon * (-1) moved this snippet lower
10:38:14 <nakilon> didn't notice your addition
10:38:38 <nakilon> I should add velik to thelounge highlights
10:40:47 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(openssl rand -base64 18);(1..7).to_a
10:40:54 <velik> t8IFt0N+9ok4L6P8nX/jY4mC
10:41:00 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(openssl rand -vase64 18); (1..7).to_a
10:41:04 <velik> remote execution commands loaded: ["rasel", "morse", "demorse", "ruby"]
10:41:10 <velik> rand: Option unknown option -vase64[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
10:41:15 <velik> \ruby <Ruby lang code>; does not print return value if stdout isn't empty; timelimit=10s
10:42:17 <int-e> Ugh, do we have another bot?
10:42:40 <int-e> Ah, no, velik is known already.
10:42:49 <b_jonas> int-e: it's an evalbot so it's possible that nakilon will give up running it quickly
10:42:55 <int-e> So is perlbot (meaning, lambdabot knows about these two.)
10:43:14 <b_jonas> int-e: perlbot is not new, it's just newly joined on #esolangs
10:43:48 <int-e> perlbot is a more recent addition to lambdabot's ignore list
10:43:49 <perlbot> int-e: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [.is] [is] [iis] [@isa] [ic] [ik] [.iq] [iaq] [icke] [ioccc]
10:44:08 <int-e> ugh, no colon required?
10:47:39 <b_jonas> also perlbot is a heavily modified further developed version of buubot3, and buubot3 is a spiritual successor of buubot2, and buubot2 is rather old
10:48:11 <b_jonas> int-e: fungot doesn't require a colon either, so I don't think this is worse
10:48:11 <fungot> b_jonas: really? i'm fnord, iirc. :p at least i'll make a game like this
10:49:16 <b_jonas> wait, I thought I exceeded four lines?
10:49:34 <int-e> b_jonas: you get five, I think.
10:50:54 <b_jonas> buubot3 used to be configured to also react to its built-in command names like fact and echo and help, but probably only in his home channel and private message
10:51:33 <b_jonas> perlbot only does so in private message apparently
10:52:16 <b_jonas> I actually prefer bots that react to their names to ones that only react to short prefixes. more discoverable.
10:52:30 <b_jonas> you have to find out somewhere that you have to type `help or something
10:53:17 <nakilon> \ruby require 'securerandom'; SecureRandom.base64 10
10:53:23 <velik> "ZoDiL+qZ/fjKlg=="
10:53:25 -!- int-e has set topic: Welcome to the prehistoric cult of esoteric programming, promulgation, procurement, and propulsion! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/.
10:53:27 <b_jonas> though in jevalbot I got the worst of both worlds: it reacts to its nick but also has such a weird syntax that it's still not discoverable
10:54:16 <b_jonas> is it another reactionless drive thing again?
10:54:35 <int-e> it's when a language really takes off
10:55:05 <int-e> I'm also running out of words that start with "pro-".
10:55:17 <b_jonas> I mean https://xkcd.com/1404/ and https://xkcd.com/955/
10:56:21 <int-e> Hmm, I don't remember either of those.
10:56:44 <b_jonas> the xkcds or the hype around the original experiments?
10:57:52 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light_neutrino_anomaly was the neutrino one
10:58:13 <b_jonas> https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1404:_Quantum_Vacuum_Virtual_Plasma probalby has links for the more recent one
10:58:45 <b_jonas> hmm, is there an xkcd for the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_anomaly ?
10:59:39 <b_jonas> although admittedly the Pioneer anomaly *predates* xkcd
10:59:44 <b_jonas> wow, that's a rare thing to say
11:00:58 <b_jonas> but of course it is referenced in xkcds: 502 title text, 1547, 1621
11:02:13 <b_jonas> hmm no, 1621 is apparently about another anomaly of spacecraft trajectories, fun
11:04:09 <nakilon> \ruby `openssl rand -base64 18`
11:04:13 <velik> "ZJAY1xFL9eA5WZf8xHkmfbaP\n"
11:04:31 <nakilon> \ruby puts `openssl rand -base64 18`
11:04:33 <velik> nbMuD/e+zrL7MD8YfCVRaYlm
11:09:34 <b_jonas> nakilon: is there a way to upload or download data to velik faster than tunneling through the \ruby command and its responses?
11:09:45 <b_jonas> possibly one outside of IRC
11:10:13 <b_jonas> HackEso and perlbot have web interfaces for this, and HackEso also has the !fetch builtin command
11:10:47 <nakilon> nope, the \ remote executors are all temporary linux machines that start and die immediately
11:11:03 <b_jonas> no way, I tested that it can store persistent stuff already
11:11:30 <nakilon> and since I'm running out of money I moved the IRC bot itself to a smaller machine so other bots I run there can make it slower to react on the command too
11:11:41 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(>/tmp/KNg_VCwx0Mf6 echo XzC-o_acVjLC)
11:11:55 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(cat /tmp/KNg_VCwx0Mf6)
11:12:11 <b_jonas> the file system is persistent
11:12:23 <nakilon> maybe it can download, idk
11:12:24 <b_jonas> it might not be guaranteed to presist forever
11:13:05 <b_jonas> I'm just wondering, I'm not saying that you have to add a faster method, I just want to know before I start to tunnel larger amounts of data over IRC
11:13:17 <int-e> \ruby system %q(curl http://whatismyip.akamai.com/)
11:13:21 <velik> % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current107.178.231.229
11:14:01 <b_jonas> int-e: there's one of those that work without crazy heavy browser script stuff? wow, good to know
11:15:13 <nakilon> "Depending on the volume of requests, as well as the number of existing function instances, Cloud Functions may assign a request to an existing instance or create a new one. Each instance of a function handles only one concurrent request at a time. "
11:16:05 <b_jonas> nakilon: right, so it's just opportunistically persistent. that makes the tunneling even worse since I may have to resend some data
11:16:52 <nakilon> yeah, if you can't fit it in one command
11:17:36 <b_jonas> yeah. I'm not going to golf everything down to one IRC line.
11:18:15 -!- delta23 has joined.
11:18:16 <nakilon> maybe I should isolate the network at all for security purpose but I'm lazy to do it yet
11:18:33 <b_jonas> wait, there's network access?
11:18:45 <b_jonas> I'll have to upload a botnet then
11:19:10 <nakilon> it requires me to configure the project in some way that operates such terms as "business" and stuff while legally I can't use it like I use it now according to tax services in Russia
11:19:17 <b_jonas> oh, that also means I can just upload or download larger data through network
11:19:31 <nakilon> it just doesn't spend too much money so tax services don't give a damn about me yet
11:20:10 <b_jonas> though the 10 second time limit makes it a bit inconvenient
11:20:17 <nakilon> b_jonas your botnet will work only 10 seconds minus something
11:20:37 <b_jonas> nakilon: that just means I have to send a new command every 10 seconds, but sure
11:20:51 <b_jonas> nakilon: and it has network access, so it might be able to send commands to itself
11:21:13 <b_jonas> though it's hard to connect to IRC in 10 seconds
11:21:13 <nakilon> I mean it definitely can't spin itself
11:21:42 <b_jonas> at least to libera, which waits for a timeout on identd, unless I can run an identd in the command
11:21:52 <nakilon> I guess libera will ban it
11:23:37 <nakilon> btw, how to quickly get money other than selling nudes and kidneys? ..D
11:24:40 <hanif> hm https://cs.stackexchange.com/q/141979 , basically asks if halt(`:;s/pattern/replacement/;t`) where both pattern and replacement are [ab]* is decidable or not
11:24:45 <nakilon> I wish I was a professional in some more demanded job, like cutting grass
11:26:14 <b_jonas> nakilon: catch a pokemon, grind its level up, fight every pokemon trainer you meet, they give you money as you win
11:26:31 <b_jonas> you may have to spend a smaller part of the money on items, but the rest will be profit
11:26:42 <b_jonas> or maybe some gold duplication glitch
11:27:30 <b_jonas> try to drop your money, wait, pick up money and quickly close the game, your inventory is saved more frequently than the rest of the world so you often get a copy of your money in your inventory and one copy still dropped;
11:31:40 <b_jonas> in old versions, there was also a different way to duplicate gold, it involved something with letting a monster steal your gold then petrifying them, and somehow for historical reasons the statue stored the amount of gold both as gold and as an object, and you could get both. if you want lots of money, you have to be careful not to try to get more than 2**31 gold, though if you do overflow, the antigold
11:31:46 <b_jonas> has particularly useful properties, most importantly having a large negtive weight and thus making your effective carrying capacity almost infinite
11:32:05 <b_jonas> it's one of the very few ways to lift an object that's heavier than 1000
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11:40:44 <b_jonas> nakilon: I hope it at least isn't allowed to connect to outbound smtp, because someone attempting to send mail (even if it fails) is the quickest way to get people angry at your service
11:41:31 <int-e> Reminds me of my favorite bug in a MUD... so, there's money. When you try to pick up more money than you can carry, it'll produce as change the money that you couldn't carry. Now imagine you're overloaded due to another bug... it would produce change corresponding to the amount by which you were overloaded, and give you a negative amount of money, which it conveniently clamped at 0.
11:43:44 <b_jonas> int-e: is there one of these no-javascript whatismyip services that work for ipv6?
11:44:33 <b_jonas> int-e: um... I don't understand that money thing, your statements are a bit unclear
11:44:46 <b_jonas> also, a MUD with weight limit and money that has a weight? weird
11:47:29 <b_jonas> no, I probably just played too few MUDs
11:47:37 <b_jonas> so I find everything weird
11:47:42 <int-e> it had banks, so you didn't have to carry all your riches around at all times
11:48:36 <b_jonas> int-e: let me guess. if you die, you lose half or all your cash but keep the money in the bank, so you have to find an ATM to deposit and withdraw money often as insurance, and the ATM's interface is very annoying
11:49:23 <int-e> Normal scenario: You have 1kg capacity left to carry. You pick up 2kg of coins. So that would put you 1kg over the limit. So the code would produce change making up 1kg of coins and leave that in the room.
11:49:54 <int-e> Bug scenario: You're 1kg over capacity. You pick up 2kg of coins. So the code produced 3kg coins of change and left that in the room
11:50:08 <int-e> while the -1kg of coins that you'd get in this exchange went poof.
11:51:05 <fizzie> b_jonas: `dig -6 +short myip.opendns.com @resolver1.opendns.com aaaa` works for me.
11:51:18 * int-e is actually simplifying because the real combination of bugs was way too convoluted.
12:02:08 <b_jonas> fizzie: wow, one with a name server interface, that's interesting
12:02:58 <b_jonas> int-e: ah I see. but it doesn't try to produce different denominations of coins, like silver coins if you can't pick up a whole gold coin or something
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12:04:23 <b_jonas> yeah, that wouldn't even work with a weight limit, because lower denominations are heavier
12:04:30 <b_jonas> or at least relatively heavier
12:05:24 <int-e> b_jonas: right, it would do this separately for each denomination, actually
12:06:57 <b_jonas> now I wonder if there's a currency that has two denominations such that a larger denomination coin or banknote is realtively heavier (in proportion to its nominal value) than a smaller one
12:09:28 <b_jonas> the pre-1990 1 HUF aluminium coin was much lighter than the thick and large 2 HUF that's made of normal metals
12:11:08 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_Hungarian_forint#People's_Republic_issues_(1949-1989) says the pre-1990 aluminium 1 HUF coin weighs 1.4 g and the pre-1990 2 HUF coin weighs 5.0 g
12:11:40 <b_jonas> apparently 5.0 g is the figure of some older coin of 2 HUF denomination
12:11:47 <b_jonas> but still it's an example for what I was looking for
12:14:35 <b_jonas> though perhaps a heavy coin compared to a lighter banknote might also be an example
12:14:52 <b_jonas> or, for that matter, two different coins with the same denomination is sort of a stupid example
12:17:19 <fizzie> The pre-Euro Finnish markka *almost* had that, but not quite: the variant of the 50p coin introduced in 1990 weighed 3.3g, while the 1 FIM coin that stayed current up to 1993 was 6.1g, which is just slightly too light to count.
12:18:37 <fizzie> (They were kind of in the process of making them lighter, but staggered the introduction of new coins.)
12:22:22 <fizzie> Oh, there's an actual example too: between 1977-1982 or so, the new (aluminium) 5p coin was just 0.8g, while the older (aluminium-bronze) 10p coin was a whole 3g.
12:27:16 <b_jonas> I think back when the pre-1990 10 and 20 HUF banknotes still existed, even though they were rare because of the pre-1990 10 and 20 HUF coins, the 10 HUF banknote was lighter than the 20 HUF coin
12:28:58 <b_jonas> I mean they were both used as money, obviously copies still exist in collections
12:32:57 <b_jonas> one thing the MNB managed to do correctly so far is that old forint coins and banknotes can be exchanged in post offices for face value for quite a long time after they're removed from circulation
12:33:20 <nakilon> soviet 1 kopeika was weighting exaclty 1 gramm
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12:34:26 <b_jonas> I think I thought that was the normal way how you replace coins and banknotes, and later I learned that a few years ago when the swedish krona coins and notes got replaced, you could exchange them for only a very short time; I also know that you can't exchange finnish marka anymore
12:34:56 <b_jonas> nakilon: "same" as in they weigh exactly 1 gramm, or they weigh exactly 1 gramm per kopek of face value?
12:35:40 <b_jonas> are they made of ordinary metals?
12:35:52 <nakilon> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91S7NIA1fhL._SS400_.jpg
12:36:45 <nakilon> that metal color was red, probably had some copper in it, the higher coins were not
12:37:24 <nakilon> these photos show the color better: https://www.amazon.com/USSR-Coins/s?k=USSR+Coins
12:37:41 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_ruble#Coins_3
12:38:31 <b_jonas> (and yes, ordinary metals)
12:38:49 <nakilon> 1 Ruble was cool, the largest and the heaviest coin, but was rare
12:39:44 <nakilon> wikipedia page table fucks up colors
12:43:03 <nakilon> then when Rubles were changed to Grivnyas the 2 kop. coin was of pure aluminium for who knows why for several years
12:43:35 <nakilon> it didn't shine and you could draw dark lines with it like with a pencil, it was awful
12:47:06 <b_jonas> nakilon: it's because aluminium became cheap because of industry developments, and it's light so suitable as cash back when people payed more with cash than now because bank cards were rare or nonexistent, while ordinary coin metals like copper/nickel/zinc/tin/manganese/iron didn't become cheaper
12:47:32 <b_jonas> in the past, aluminum would have been too expensive for cheap coins
12:47:33 <nakilon> the proportial weight was cool in the way that you could just mix all the 1 2 3 and 5 and the total weight in grams would be equal to its price
12:49:32 <nakilon> I won't call aluminium cheap -- in 90s all the aluminium on streets was stolen and sold, all the rods, all the wires even
12:49:55 <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, but the same applies to copper
12:50:14 <b_jonas> iron is the only metal cheap enough to avoid that
12:50:24 <nakilon> if some alcoholic gets into your garden he steals all the aluminium wires that were commonly used to wire plants to vertical rods
12:51:25 <b_jonas> and even iron can be stolen if there's a large amount together, which happened with railway transformers and cables and railway rails, no matter that it often shocks the thieves
12:52:07 <b_jonas> a lot of bronze statues got stolen
12:52:14 <b_jonas> nakilon: yeah, that might the reason
12:52:29 <b_jonas> and rails might be worth more than their metal
12:52:52 <b_jonas> because they're very standardized so easy to reuse and hard to trace
12:53:00 <nakilon> there is a diggers' hobby to find WW2 tanks and ammunition
12:53:15 <nakilon> the whole tank sells well as an iron
12:53:23 <nakilon> but usually it's only tracks
12:53:33 <nakilon> broken tracks that were abandoned
12:55:09 <b_jonas> as for that, you know how people say that cash is untracable? I wonder how long it will stay that way. a lot of cash is handled in vending machines and banks who already inspect all the banknotes in interesting electronic ways to catch counterfeats and remove damaged or old banknotes from circulation. I think from a technical point it would be easy for banks and vending machines to read the unique
12:55:15 <b_jonas> serial number from each banknote, so it's only a legal and political question for when banks start to do that for most banknote cash transactions and collect the data to a shared serial database.
12:55:53 <b_jonas> and technologically it even gets easier, because once banks do that, new banknotes can be printed with serial numbers in a format that's easier for machines to read, and then more vending machines can read them
12:56:02 <nakilon> not sure about rails -- you can't just meld them together in the way no one would notice -- they are numbered and periodically checked with ultrasound
12:56:40 <nakilon> cash never was untraceable, they are all numbered
12:56:43 <b_jonas> I don't really understand the political side, but I think it would be easy to introduce by scope creep: first say that it's supposedly only against things that everyone hates: counterfeits and money laundering.
12:57:14 <nakilon> the trace is just lost when you use cash without a cash register
12:57:39 <nakilon> like... enter some shop and ask them for exchange
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12:58:19 <b_jonas> then extend to catch money used for services that are clearly illegal and that I won't name here, then to services that can technically be done legally but most payment providers will ban you for it, then to things that ebay bans, then to trace things that youtube demonetizes you for, then to catch large scale tax evasion in construction industry, then finally to catch small scale tax evasion for
12:58:25 <b_jonas> ordinary businesses and individuals.
12:58:39 <nakilon> oh I mean not just cash register but ATMs
12:58:42 <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, but you don't need to trace every transaction perfectly, you just need to trace enough of it until it becomes hard to use
12:58:47 <nakilon> cash registers don't scan numbers
12:58:58 <b_jonas> yes, ATMs too, not just banks and vending machines
12:59:46 <b_jonas> banks are already pushing for people to use these fancy new ATMs where you can insert banknotes and it scans them without manual intervention and pays the money on your bank account, so you can use ATMs in both directions
12:59:55 <b_jonas> all this applies to banknotes only, not coins, but that's not a problem
13:01:01 <b_jonas> so I think if such large scale tracing isn't done yet, it will be in two decades
13:01:14 <b_jonas> and cash will no longer count as untracable
13:01:40 <nakilon> when I tell someone about the data mining and stuff and the persons laughs "no one stole anything from me, ahaha, you are paranoid, I am smart, ahaha" -- I wish I could someone telepathically make that person understand the amount of stupidity I see in them
13:02:21 <b_jonas> that said many of the people who mention this usually contrast it with payment methods from bank cards and bank accounts, and cryptocurrency, so they do have a valid point that currently cash is less tracable than other common payment methods
13:02:21 <nakilon> maybe the language needs some words for illiteracy measurement
13:02:55 <nakilon> the virus easily made people switch to card, even me
13:04:29 <nakilon> but they also love to demonstrate in stores: "hey people around me, look! I pay with phone! look I pay with watches!" -- not even understanding that it's absolutely opposite from being handy, and they spend much more time paying in this way than it was using cash because the device battery dies or it's just lagging, etc.
13:07:50 <nakilon> it's important to understand that they don't believe in things not just because they didn't get any true evidence of stuff but purely because of stubbornness because in fact no evidence in the world would change their minds, even if Zukerberg would say "dudes, I was stealing, I was fooling", they would say "we don't give a shit" just because
13:07:50 <nakilon> admitting that they were always wrong would be too butthurting
13:08:14 <nakilon> I just feel to much disgust to this phenomenon
13:08:51 <b_jonas> the "pay with phone" thing I don't understand. I carry with me three important items: a wallet of money, a mobile phone, and my home keys. If a pickpocket steals them from me, I'd rather they not steal two at the same time, because I can use the others to ask for help, eg. I can use phone to call my relatives who have a spare key or use money for the same, if money is stolen I go home with keys and grab
13:08:57 <b_jonas> spare money or card, so I keep the three separately. paying with phone seems like you put your bank card and your phone in the same place, ready to be stolen together.
13:09:45 <b_jonas> (well, in reality it's five important items that I should keep separately, but I simply can't figure out how to keep five things separately and easy to reach and hard to pickpocket, so they just go in four locations)
13:10:02 <nakilon> I realised that people are fools not because they were not told the truth but purely because it's their level of illiteracy and arrogance when even the "I worked for Facebook" argument was absolutely nothing for them
13:10:38 <nakilon> yeah I switched to topic, sorry
13:10:59 <nakilon> the topic of tracking the people is just what annoys me
13:12:21 <b_jonas> I really wish I could solve this, but there seems to be no easy solution. if I keep anything really important in my backpack, I'm afraid it gets stolen. if I keep anything in my shirt or coat, I'll misplace it. that leaves my jeans and a small belt loop bag. jean back pockets are limited: most things would get damaged and/or would be inconvenient to sit on, so I only store one of the five things there.
13:12:27 <b_jonas> that leaves a small bag and two front pockets for four items.
13:12:46 <b_jonas> perhaps I should try to get a second belt loop bag. I have worn such for a compact camera occasionally.
13:13:02 <nakilon> when they say "no one stole from me anything" they are smiling like if the demonstrating own illiteracy was something to be proud of
13:13:53 <nakilon> and they don't even care if there is a one person like you who is disgusted because all other people around that they are carefully filtering believe that everything is ok
13:14:45 <nakilon> what about inside pockets?
13:16:31 <b_jonas> nakilon: inside pockets are in the jacket, which I can replace or not wear some day and won't think of moving items from it
13:16:58 <b_jonas> I (usually) don't forget moving items when switching jeans
13:17:44 <nakilon> there are freaks who implant credit cards under their skin
13:18:11 <nakilon> there should be anonymous-friendly yet useful implants
13:18:21 <b_jonas> I should probably consider storing my keys in my backpack, and storing IDs in my right jean pocket where I normally have the keys
13:18:34 <nakilon> or was it a guy who implanted a metro ticket
13:21:04 <nakilon> in the apartments where I live people are taught to use the same device to open their house doors and enter the metro
13:22:18 <nakilon> while the metro (subway, whatever) was ALWAYS known to be stealing the data -- the WiFi ALWAYS had the broken certificates and mobile devices tell you that ut NO ONE cares and millions of people use the wifi every day
13:23:26 <nakilon> even after articles where dudes have sniffed the wifi traffic to see that there are data flying around that tracks every wifi user with such attributes like phone number, estimated age, estimated salary, estimated home and job locations, education level, etc.
13:25:00 <nakilon> and to see that they are tracking this it wasn't even needed to hack their databases -- it's only what was leaking to the wifi lan; the metro tracks every wifi user about where he lives, works, studies, what's his family status, etc. -- it was all discovered and no one still cares
13:26:23 <nakilon> people are still using the Mosgortrans Wifi that is in metro and buses, not caring at all when the device says "dude the certificates are invalid", and so the Mosgortrans that is already exposed several times to track the data clearly can read all the traffic but no one cares
13:28:48 <nakilon> so now this company is partnering with companies who build new apartments -- they are now offering the way to pay for metro with the keys, so no metro doesn't need to estimate your location -- they have your personal data directly, knowing which flat you own, your full identity
13:31:48 <nakilon> this is a sample sniffed packed https://dpaste.org/YBED/slim
13:32:41 <nakilon> here is another view https://tproger.ru/s3/uploads/2018/04/hash.jpg
13:33:08 <nakilon> they even track if you are married
13:37:47 <nakilon> the articles even explain that there are standard hacking utilities that you can use in the way that you just stalk the person from one wagon to another until you identify his MAC or you can make it faster by filtering by model/laptop model that is also tracked
13:38:32 <nakilon> when you identify the person the metro wifi gives you this person's phone number and all this datamined data
13:42:21 <nakilon> did anyone make any conclusions when these articles were published on the most popular IT-related website of the country that everyone knows? nope. people are absolutely okay with that come company tracks everything about them -- they just say "so what? how can they use it against me? they can't take money from my pocket, ahaha" and not even the
13:42:21 <nakilon> fact that they read all their traffic, i.e. email, etc., makes any sense to them
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15:11:51 <esolangs> [[BIT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85674&oldid=77824 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+85) Add implementation from website, fix cats
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15:30:09 <nakilon> should I rename "Esolang categories intersector" into "Esolang cats intersector"
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15:42:14 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85675&oldid=85669 * Spargle * (+0) /* Links: */
15:44:36 <esolangs> [[Common-S3C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85676&oldid=85573 * Spargle * (+0) /* Links: */
15:51:03 <esolangs> [[Common-S3C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85677&oldid=85676 * Spargle * (+0) /* Links: */
15:51:50 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85678&oldid=85675 * Spargle * (+0) /* Links: */
15:52:10 <fungot> fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
15:52:21 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
15:52:35 <perlbot> oerjan: Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
15:54:30 <HackEso> prefixes Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
15:57:53 -!- arseniiv has joined.
15:58:37 <oerjan> `le/rn prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
15:58:37 <fungot> oerjan: but bsmnt_bot isn't throttled, but not enough to put pics with an alpha value, there's problems with every language is interpreted
15:58:41 <HackEso> Relearned 'prefixes': Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
15:59:30 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.)S
15:59:40 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
15:59:40 <fungot> fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
15:59:48 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:00:46 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.)S
16:00:52 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
16:01:07 <perlbot> oerjan: Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or >, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:04:50 <oerjan> perlbot learn prefixes are Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:04:50 <fungot> oerjan: ratty is the name ' nine inch nails crowd?' as ' sine' should pronounce ' char'...?
16:04:51 <perlbot> oerjan: Stored prefixes as Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:05:08 <perlbot> oerjan: Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:06:07 * FireFly can't tell if it's supposed to be an escaped dot or verbatim backslash dot
16:06:12 <perlbot> oerjan: Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:06:17 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [, bfbot =, velik \.
16:06:25 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:08:38 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.)S
16:08:50 <oerjan> ok now i hope they are identical.
16:10:35 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \.
16:12:58 <fizzie> It sure is a good thing we've got balanced parentheses in prefixes.
16:13:52 <b_jonas> FireFly: it's a backslash, the dot ends the sentence
16:13:56 <velik> available commands: ["rasel", "morse", "demorse", "ruby"]; usage help: \help <cmd>
16:14:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: oh, it was under prefixes, not prefixe? sorry
16:15:19 <b_jonas> oerjan: oh, it was under prefixes, not prefixe? sorry
16:15:25 <HackEso> unless essential for the entry‘s humor, \ they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
16:16:36 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(ls /tmp; df); # FireFly: this is the latest command, an evaluator
16:17:21 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(ls /tmp; df); # FireFly: this is the latest command, an evaluator
16:20:00 <oerjan> fizzie: i lobbied for jconn to get that prefix for that precise reason
16:20:32 <oerjan> before that i used bf. it was painful.
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17:02:43 <esolangs> [[A:;]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85679&oldid=63932 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+203) re-add fizzbuzz example that was accidentally deleted
17:03:30 <esolangs> [[A:;]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85680&oldid=85679 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+4) make the fizzbuzz section header a link like the others
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17:39:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Pointless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85681&oldid=63537 * Traveller * (+461) Reflection on a property formerly held to be true.
17:41:38 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, but were there any such keyboards used for purposes other than punching holes in cards? (When you have constrainted space and not many keys, it might be helpful)
17:42:03 <esolangs> [[Pointless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85682&oldid=79210 * Traveller * (+66)
17:42:35 <esolangs> [[Pointless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85683&oldid=85682 * Traveller * (+1)
17:46:58 <zzo38> (Just, I don't really like the existing methods of text entry on telephone keypads, and I think that Hollerith chording would be better way of entering text on numeric keypads. If you have a full keyboard that is better, but that won't work when you do not have a full keyboard)
17:51:25 <riv> Hollerith chording?
17:52:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Pointless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85684&oldid=85681 * Traveller * (+230)
17:53:51 <zzo38> riv: Meaning a numeric keypad (and another key for a space); if you push a number by itself then it makes a number, but if you push in combination with - & or other numbers then you can make alphabets/punctuations.
17:54:08 <riv> how does it work?
17:56:34 <zzo38> riv: The possible combinations are shown in the picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Blue-punch-card-front-horiz.png So, pushing 0 and 2 together makes "T", and pushing & and 1 together makes "A".
17:57:25 <esolangs> [[Pointless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85685&oldid=85683 * Traveller * (+117)
17:58:39 <riv> this would take a long time to learn to use
17:58:46 <riv> and could be bad fpr fingers
18:01:06 <zzo38> I dislike the more common methods though (such as pushing the numbers until it comes up the letters that you want and waiting for delays or explicitly skipping)
18:06:12 <zzo38> I also dislike touch screen
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19:16:39 * oerjan is playing with doomsdays and was checking if he got it right
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20:05:17 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85686&oldid=85678 * Spargle * (-84) /* Links: */
20:05:59 <esolangs> [[Common-S3C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85687&oldid=85677 * Spargle * (-84) /* Links: */
20:06:52 <esolangs> [[Common-S3C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85688&oldid=85687 * Spargle * (-4) /* The world's stupidest language. */
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20:47:30 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85689&oldid=85686 * Spargle * (-4) /* The world's stupidest language. */
21:29:32 <riv> https://i.postimg.cc/q4nqtWRt/s-l1600.jpg zzo38
21:49:55 <nakilon> looks like scrambled rubik's cude
21:54:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skelozard * New user account
21:58:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85690&oldid=85659 * Skelozard * (+146) /* Introductions */
21:58:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:PokBattle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85691 * Skelozard * (+205) Created page with "I've created a [https://github.com/Educorreia932/PokeBattle Python interpreter] for PokBattle. I tried to stay as close as possible to the original specification and it has..."
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23:02:26 <wib_jonas> oh great. ISP is doing weird things again. for like 20 minutes the whole internet connection was down. now it's mostly down, but a few ranges of hosts like this webchat are reachable.
23:07:12 <wib_jonas> perlbot eval "or at least I think it's reachable,"; "pong"
23:12:56 <wib_jonas> direct IRC connections and most other hosts still don't work
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23:40:58 <b_jonas> well I think now it's working, after power cycling the cable modem router the second time
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00:26:49 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85692&oldid=85689 * Spargle * (+12) /* Version 3.0 now updates itself! */
00:29:21 <esolangs> [[S3C (sssc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85693&oldid=85692 * Spargle * (+120) /* Syntax: */
00:29:56 <esolangs> [[Common-S3C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85694&oldid=85688 * Spargle * (+92) /* Syntax: */
01:26:51 <esolangs> [[Excellerated Short-Term Memory Loss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85695&oldid=85512 * PolySaken * (+509)
02:51:17 <esolangs> [[PokBattle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85696&oldid=78267 * Quintopia * (+104) implemented
02:52:58 <esolangs> [[User:Quintopia]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85697&oldid=80745 * Quintopia * (+17)
02:53:37 <esolangs> [[User:Quintopia]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85698&oldid=85697 * Quintopia * (+1)
02:55:19 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85699&oldid=85627 * PixelatedStarfish * (+114) /* Pointer operations */
03:15:44 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85700&oldid=85699 * PixelatedStarfish * (+356) /* Pointer operations */
03:24:01 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85701&oldid=85700 * PixelatedStarfish * (+146) /* Pointer operations */
03:24:50 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85702&oldid=85701 * PixelatedStarfish * (+6) /* A note on Goblins */
03:25:10 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85703&oldid=85702 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* A note on Goblins */
03:25:26 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85704&oldid=85703 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* A note on Goblins */
03:26:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85705&oldid=85704 * PixelatedStarfish * (-4) /* A note on Goblins */
03:26:33 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85706&oldid=85705 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* A note on Goblins */
03:26:55 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85707&oldid=85706 * PixelatedStarfish * (-6) /* A note on Goblins */
03:29:54 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85708&oldid=85707 * PixelatedStarfish * (+286) /* Memory Muncher */
03:31:01 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85709&oldid=85708 * PixelatedStarfish * (+20) /* Goblins Operation Example */
03:32:59 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85710&oldid=85709 * PixelatedStarfish * (+53) /* Goblins Operation Example */
03:34:25 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85711&oldid=85710 * PixelatedStarfish * (+81) /* A note on Goblins */
03:34:52 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85712&oldid=85711 * PixelatedStarfish * (+15) /* A note on Goblins */
04:01:50 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85713&oldid=85712 * PixelatedStarfish * (+122) /* A note on the Goblins Operation */
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11:31:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lazythomas * New user account
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12:34:01 <b_jonas> `? Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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12:34:08 <HackEso> Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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12:59:04 <esolangs> [[Foobar and Foobaz and Barbaz, oh my!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85714&oldid=53684 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-4) use they instead of he/she
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13:33:44 <nakilon> I've no idea how this works https://github.com/mxgmn/WaveFunctionCollapse
13:35:11 <nakilon> https://imgur.com/a/Z0NHj9I
13:35:26 <nakilon> how gonna try on larger input and more colors
13:36:21 <nakilon> oh and it started with black top left pixel, let's see what if I start with white...
13:36:54 <nakilon> wow https://i.imgur.com/cJGNKkz.png
13:38:05 <nakilon> it is a bit nondetirmitistic, so https://i.imgur.com/3zc7w2q.png
13:38:49 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/wge0yBn.png
13:41:16 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/t2kcPYb.png
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14:10:11 <arseniiv> nakilon: I reckon it mostly goes TL→DR? looks like that
14:11:10 <nakilon> yes I start in the top left corner and then it decides how to grow until filled
14:13:11 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/xpYNbHV.png ; then I realised by hsv color distance formula is wrong because it's for hsl, rewriting right now
14:13:11 <int-e> arseniiv: yes, "too long" causes "didn't read"
14:14:06 <int-e> huh, what am I looking at?
14:21:09 <arseniiv> I meant top-left down-right but the usual meaning is appropritate too :D
14:21:56 <int-e> arseniiv: "bottom right" is more common, I think
14:22:34 <arseniiv> int-e: ah, that’s the issue indeed
14:22:37 <int-e> There are two pairs: up,down and top,bottom
14:22:49 <int-e> Mixing them is unusual.
14:23:31 <int-e> Except in top-down and bottom-up software design... because up/down are directions and top/bottom are places to start.
14:24:26 <int-e> English is downright crazy though so this a mere guideline.
14:26:08 <int-e> fwiw, I was curious about the rules that governed those images (some sort of probabilistic CA maybe?)
14:26:29 <esolangs> [[User:Skelozard]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85715 * Skelozard * (+63) Created page with "Hi, I'm Skelozard and I've made an interpreter for PokBattle."
14:27:04 <int-e> I suppose there's context further up, but I'm too lazy to figure out where to look.
14:27:32 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/NTxSOsQ.png ; https://i.imgur.com/dgcw7pL.png
14:29:14 <nakilon> this one was probably drawn deterministically, at least it drew the same three times in a raw
14:29:21 <nakilon> I wish I knew how to make a gif
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14:57:32 <arseniiv> <int-e> Except in top-down and bottom-up software design... because up/down are directions and top/bottom are places to start. => that’s my understanding too
15:01:44 <oerjan> `learn tldr means (from) top left (to) down right, signifying that you've read a document all the way through.
15:01:47 <HackEso> Learned 'tldr': tldr means (from) top left (to) down right, signifying that you've read a document all the way through.
15:01:49 <int-e> . o O ( Too long; didn't... Cat! )
15:03:06 <nakilon> yay https://i.imgur.com/XJ7XdO7.mp4
15:04:41 <HackEso> Drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times.
15:05:51 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85716&oldid=85713 * PixelatedStarfish * (-23)
15:06:18 <nakilon> I can run your image input, 4x4 RGB or HSV in format: [[123, 123, 123], ...], [..], [...], [...]]
15:09:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85717&oldid=85716 * PixelatedStarfish * (+11) /* A note on the Goblins Operation */
15:10:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85718&oldid=85717 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Goblins Operation Example */
15:11:20 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85719&oldid=85718 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Goblins Operation Example */
15:15:54 <nakilon> meh, it works for these small abstract things but not for more flat images like what I wanted to feed it initially https://i.imgur.com/ujSsTiF.png
15:17:07 <int-e> oh no... https://blog.davetcode.co.uk/post/21st-century-emulator/
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15:28:29 <nakilon> he could use built-in webrick instead of pulling it the sinatra gem
15:29:36 <nakilon> would be several times faster
15:29:55 <nakilon> whatever this insanity is, lol
15:33:31 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85720&oldid=85719 * PixelatedStarfish * (+12) /* Pointer operations */
15:34:53 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85721&oldid=85720 * PixelatedStarfish * (+46) /* Pointer operations */
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16:03:12 <nakilon> ok it still does not work and I broke it ..( https://i.imgur.com/cX7tIHz.mp4
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16:27:07 <b_jonas> also, re previous question of no javascript "what is my IP address", http://ip6.me/ seems to work
16:36:43 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/1Ek3KlA.mp4
16:37:22 <esolangs> [[User:Qwertyu63]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85722&oldid=57348 * Skelozard * (+16)
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16:39:17 <esolangs> [[User:Skelozard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85723&oldid=85715 * Skelozard * (+139)
16:39:37 <esolangs> [[User:Skelozard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85724&oldid=85723 * Skelozard * (+0)
16:40:22 <esolangs> [[User:Skelozard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85725&oldid=85724 * Skelozard * (+37)
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16:49:41 <esolangs> [[O]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85726&oldid=81995 * Tape * (+1) /* # */
16:49:53 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/2McBstm.png
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16:59:55 <nakilon> no neural networks craps, 90 lines of pure ruby and several seconds of CPU time https://i.imgur.com/tIoACIZ.png
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17:08:47 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(curl -sS http://ip6only.me/api/); # ok, so it does have ipv6 connectivity
17:08:50 <velik> /tmp/code:1: syntax error, unexpected end-of-input, expecting ')'"VHlt_hZi88Gz"
17:09:23 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(curl -sS http://ip6only.me/api/); # ok, so it does have ipv6 connectivity
17:09:40 <b_jonas> nakilon: ^ it looks like it's confusing multiple commands or something
17:09:44 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(curl -sS http://ip6only.me/api/);
17:09:48 <velik> IPv6,2600:1900:2000:1b:400::14,Remaining fields reserved for future use,,,
17:10:29 <b_jonas> \ruby system %q(curl -sS http://ip4only.me/api/);
17:10:34 <velik> IPv4,107.178.232.248,Remaining fields reserved for future use,,,
17:30:35 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85727&oldid=85721 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* A note on the Goblins Operation */
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17:34:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85728&oldid=85727 * PixelatedStarfish * (+269) /* Goblins Operation Example */
17:34:42 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85729&oldid=85728 * PixelatedStarfish * (+10) /* Goblins Operation Example */
17:35:00 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85730&oldid=85729 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Goblins Operation Example */
17:35:49 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85731&oldid=85730 * PixelatedStarfish * (-7) /* Goblins Operation Example */
17:36:24 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85732&oldid=85731 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Goblins Operation Example */
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17:36:38 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85733&oldid=85732 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Goblins Operation Example */
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17:55:13 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85734&oldid=85733 * PixelatedStarfish * (+26) /* Behaviors */
17:56:50 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85735&oldid=85734 * PixelatedStarfish * (-114)
17:57:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85736&oldid=85735 * PixelatedStarfish * (-53) /* Goblins Operation Example */
17:58:31 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85737&oldid=85736 * PixelatedStarfish * (+83) /* The Goblins Operation */
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18:09:24 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85738&oldid=85737 * PixelatedStarfish * (+344) /* The Goblins Operation */
18:10:18 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85739&oldid=85738 * PixelatedStarfish * (+89) /* The Goblins Operation */
18:12:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85740&oldid=85739 * PixelatedStarfish * (+15) /* The Goblins Operation */
18:16:19 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85741&oldid=85740 * PixelatedStarfish * (+82) /* The Goblins Operation */
18:18:03 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85742&oldid=85741 * PixelatedStarfish * (-12) /* The Goblins Operation */
18:19:53 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85743&oldid=85742 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* The Goblins Operation */
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18:23:03 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85744&oldid=85743 * PixelatedStarfish * (+8) /* Behaviors */
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19:53:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Booleancoercion * New user account
19:56:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85745&oldid=85690 * Booleancoercion * (+208)
19:59:07 <esolangs> [[Chef]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85746&oldid=78831 * Booleancoercion * (+106)
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20:08:29 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85747&oldid=85744 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Pointer operations */
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20:25:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CarterNotSteve * New user account
20:32:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85748&oldid=85745 * CarterNotSteve * (+230) /* Introductions */
20:34:57 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85749&oldid=85660 * CarterNotSteve * (+11) /* S */
20:36:29 <esolangs> [[Slot]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85750 * CarterNotSteve * (+62) Created page with "/*Slot*/ Slot is an esolang created by User [[CarterNotSteve]]"
20:36:44 <esolangs> [[Slot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85751&oldid=85750 * CarterNotSteve * (-9)
20:39:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85752&oldid=85747 * PixelatedStarfish * (-46) /* Pointer operations */
20:40:42 <esolangs> [[Slot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85753&oldid=85751 * CarterNotSteve * (+736)
20:43:25 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85754 * S1(210) * (+4007) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=RHOVL |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:S1(210)]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |class=[[:Category:Turing_complete|Turing complete]] |files=<..."
20:44:03 <esolangs> [[Slot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85755&oldid=85753 * CarterNotSteve * (-332)
20:59:46 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85756&oldid=85754 * S1(210) * (+492) /* Specification */
21:02:30 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85757&oldid=85756 * S1(210) * (+254) /* Operations */
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21:08:57 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85758&oldid=85752 * PixelatedStarfish * (+96)
21:13:18 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85759&oldid=85757 * S1(210) * (+670) /* Operations */
21:13:59 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85760&oldid=85759 * S1(210) * (-32) /* Operations */
21:14:56 <esolangs> [[Andrew Phillips]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85761&oldid=84179 * S1(210) * (+12)
21:16:30 <esolangs> [[User:S1(210)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85762&oldid=84857 * S1(210) * (+89)
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21:57:17 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85763&oldid=85758 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Pointer operations */
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22:59:17 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85764&oldid=85763 * PixelatedStarfish * (-3) /* The grid */
23:12:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85765&oldid=85457 * Aldous zodiac * (-7074) Replaced content with "'''WARP''' is an object and stack based language, created by [[User:Aldous zodiac|Aldous zodiac]] ([[User talk:Aldous zodiac|talk]]) in May 2013. All numerics are signed,..."
23:12:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85766&oldid=85765 * Aldous zodiac * (+5045)
23:17:51 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85767&oldid=85764 * PixelatedStarfish * (+33) /* The Goblins Operation */
23:18:20 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85768&oldid=85767 * PixelatedStarfish * (-3) /* The Goblins Operation */
23:36:51 <esolangs> [[Slot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85769&oldid=85755 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+59) Cats, fix userlink, stubwip
23:37:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85770&oldid=85766 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) a
23:37:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85771&oldid=85770 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) b
23:38:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85772&oldid=85771 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) No good
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02:10:52 <nakilon> did another approach but it's much slower ( https://i.imgur.com/uMvEce9.png
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03:12:36 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85773&oldid=84554 * Makonede * (+16)
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03:58:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85774&oldid=85748 * BurningApparatus * (+201) /* Introductions */
05:01:04 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/vqjmZFl.mp4
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06:36:55 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/7L3ELnH.mp4
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08:44:49 <Taneb> Hmm, is the infinite variant of Lagrange's group theory theorem equivalent to the axiom of choice?
08:46:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Flyingmadpakke * New user account
08:49:38 <Corbin> It feels like it. It seems plausible that Lagrange's theorem requires LEM (which implies AOC) just to choose equivalence classes and take subgroups, but I'm not sure. The other direction seems easy enough.
09:09:15 <int-e> "LEM (which implies AOC)"... no
09:10:52 <Taneb> Yeah, AOC => LEM but not the other way around, I'm pretty sure
09:15:02 <int-e> I'm trying to remember how AOC implies LEM. Ah, you can let A = {0 | P} u {1 | ~P}, prove that A != {}, and then AOC picks an element of the sole element of X = {A} and that'll tell you which of P or ~P is true.
09:16:31 <int-e> So it seems to be a quirk of encoding emptiness as {} \notin X rather than the positive assertion that forall A in X, exists a in A, true
09:17:09 <int-e> err, encoding the fact that the sets in X are non-empty
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09:20:25 <Taneb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaconescu%27s_theorem I think
09:21:08 <Corbin> You're entirely correct.
09:26:07 <int-e> Ah, that's a bit more clever... we *can* exhibit elements of U and V there, so it's not just an encoding quirk.
09:28:11 <shachaf> I heard about the axiom of global choice recently. What a great axiom.
09:30:20 <int-e> what's next? epsilon calculus?
09:31:34 <shachaf> Ah, I hadn't heard of that either.
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09:32:09 <shachaf> This epsilon thing is slightly reminiscent of "seemingly impossible programs".
09:32:45 <shachaf> Where the find operator also takes a predicate and returns a value that satisfies it, if it exists, or otherwise an unspecified value.
09:32:54 <shachaf> And exists and forall are implemented the same way.
09:34:16 <shachaf> Maybe this epsilon thing works well in some sort of compactness-related context.
09:34:36 <shachaf> Hmm, I still don't really know what the computational content of compactness is, in that sort of context.
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14:58:36 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85775&oldid=85749 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* R */ RHOVL
15:00:17 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85776&oldid=85760 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+78) /* Interpreter */ Cats
15:00:52 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85777&oldid=85776 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+70) Refimpl
15:32:18 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85778&oldid=70408 * Dtuser1337 * (+1474) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
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16:05:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85779&oldid=85200 * Sanscicondos * (+53) /* Know Bugs As of Version [Alpha 1.3] */
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16:16:20 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85780&oldid=85778 * Dtuser1337 * (+569) /* Commands */
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16:25:15 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/y3Tg3oj.png ; https://i.imgur.com/O5sSCPR.mp4
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16:32:37 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/yBhtVxG.png ; https://i.imgur.com/19kdpY0.mp4
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17:06:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85781&oldid=85774 * Flyingmadpakke * (+151) /* Introductions */
17:10:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85782&oldid=85781 * Flyingmadpakke * (+81) /* Introductions */
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18:09:24 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85783&oldid=85780 * Dtuser1337 * (+2759) /* Commands */
18:10:01 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85784&oldid=85783 * Dtuser1337 * (+7) /* Commands */
18:10:24 <nakilon> heh, while small objects like this crater go well https://i.imgur.com/pHR2Fse.png
18:10:38 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85785&oldid=85784 * Dtuser1337 * (+0) /* Commands */
18:10:49 <nakilon> this one does not ( https://i.imgur.com/NfwEnKO.png
18:11:18 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85786&oldid=85785 * Dtuser1337 * (-3) /* Commands */
18:12:17 <nakilon> I imagine I could generate the image on lower resolution and then recursively go 2 times higher
18:12:32 <nakilon> but it's too complex compared to current state
18:17:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85787&oldid=77361 * Flyingmadpakke * (+1507)
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18:32:14 <esolangs> [[\ () /]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85788&oldid=81658 * LegionMammal978 * (+226) fix links
18:53:53 <esolangs> [[DROL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85789&oldid=81673 * LegionMammal978 * (+10) /* External Links */ fix links
18:58:44 <nakilon> I guess I'll stop on this for now
19:02:42 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85790&oldid=85786 * Dtuser1337 * (+1826) /* Commands */
19:12:21 <esolangs> [[Shove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85791&oldid=44005 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-13) fix spacing of and un-preformat the space instruction
19:19:18 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85792&oldid=85790 * Dtuser1337 * (+958) /* Commands */
19:25:03 <esolangs> [[Muddle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85793&oldid=77988 * LegionMammal978 * (+8) /* Interpreter */ fix links
19:27:38 <imode> is the singingbanana on the esowiki the same singingbanana that does the numberphile videos?
19:30:29 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85794&oldid=85792 * Dtuser1337 * (+150)
19:35:56 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85795&oldid=85794 * Dtuser1337 * (+108)
19:38:28 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85796&oldid=85795 * Dtuser1337 * (+100) /* Commands */
19:41:59 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85797&oldid=85796 * Dtuser1337 * (-79) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
19:43:28 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85798&oldid=85797 * Dtuser1337 * (+40) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
19:44:34 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85799&oldid=85798 * Dtuser1337 * (-12) /* Commands */
19:46:07 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85800&oldid=85799 * Dtuser1337 * (+7) /* Commands */
19:49:56 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85801&oldid=85800 * Dtuser1337 * (+50) /* Examples */
20:05:50 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85802&oldid=85801 * Dtuser1337 * (+375) /* Examples */
20:12:29 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85803&oldid=85802 * Dtuser1337 * (+235) /* Function Commands */
20:12:45 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85804&oldid=85803 * Dtuser1337 * (-1) /* Function Commands */
20:15:11 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85805&oldid=85804 * Dtuser1337 * (+32) /* Function Commands */
20:15:45 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85806&oldid=85805 * Dtuser1337 * (-13) /* Function Commands */
20:16:54 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85807&oldid=85806 * Dtuser1337 * (-11) /* Cat */
20:17:45 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85808&oldid=85807 * Dtuser1337 * (+30) /* File I/O Commands */
20:18:12 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85809&oldid=85808 * Dtuser1337 * (+0) /* File I/O Commands */
20:18:33 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85810&oldid=85809 * Dtuser1337 * (+13) /* File I/O Commands */
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20:28:56 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85811&oldid=85810 * Dtuser1337 * (+336) /* 99 Bottles of Beer */
20:45:55 <riv> https://medium.com/@benjamin.botto/implementing-an-optimal-rubiks-cube-solver-using-korf-s-algorithm-bf750b332cf9
20:45:59 <riv> look at he use of lehmer codes
20:46:07 <riv> https://medium.com/@benjamin.botto/sequentially-indexing-permutations-a-linear-algorithm-for-computing-lexicographic-rank-a22220ffd6e3
20:46:11 <riv> sorry for medium links
20:56:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85812&oldid=85775 * Sebosh * (-14)
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22:47:00 <esolangs> [[Shove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85813&oldid=85791 * Ais523 * (+39) perhaps this is the best way to make the space-in-code-formatting show up?
22:48:37 <esolangs> [[Shove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85814&oldid=85813 * Ais523 * (+25) add a category
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00:08:09 * nakilon discovered that there are unicode characters for all phases
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00:28:45 <keegan> unicode: the first uncountably infinite character set?
00:33:57 <pikhq> idk, even if you allow for composing, i feel like the spec only gets you to countably infinite
00:45:36 <cd> yea i think at best unicode is countably infinite
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01:03:01 <fizzie> (Just an excuse to try out italics. Didn't render in the terminal. Did in the Matrix client, though.)
01:03:16 <pikhq> works in my client
01:05:57 <zzo38> No italics on my computer, although the formatting code is displayed.
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01:13:25 <nakilon> also this says my terminal can italic https://stackoverflow.com/a/3338028/322020 but I don't remember if I saw it anywhere, maybe during homebrew installs
01:14:36 <nakilon> can't find a way to start a detached screen session that would not vanish if the script in it fails
01:27:59 <fizzie> nakilon: It's a little inelegant, but `screen -S testing -d -m; screen -S testing -X stuff "/bin/false\n"` worked for me to create a detached screen session with a shell in it, into which had been typed /bin/false, which had (obviously) failed but since it was in a shell the session was left to stay around.
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01:41:41 <fizzie> nakilon: Oh, I guess another alternative is something like: `screen -S testing -d -m /bin/bash -c '/your/script; exec bash'` -- as in, in the screen session, run a shell that runs your script and then unconditionally exec's a new interactive shell to keep hold of the screen session. There's probably other ways to convince bash to do "do X and then start acting like an interactive shell" that don't
01:41:47 <fizzie> involve exec'ing a new one.
01:49:59 <esolangs> [[Sed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85815&oldid=80348 * LegionMammal978 * (+15) fix name
02:02:13 <nakilon> is "stuff" a special word or what?
02:03:07 <nakilon> also the -X to execute commands in existing screen like is someone's snippets didn't work at all
02:04:59 <fizzie> `stuff` is a command to write things as if they had been typed, yes. It worked for me.
02:05:01 <HackEso> stuff`? No such file or directory
02:05:19 <fizzie> Well, the other way involves no -X, anyway.
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07:02:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85816&oldid=85787 * Keymaker * (+381) /* Using integer overflow for a compact 18 bytes Truth-machine in Brainfuck? */
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07:07:14 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85817&oldid=85811 * Dtuser1337 * (-78) /* Function Commands */
07:11:16 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85818&oldid=85817 * Dtuser1337 * (+75) /* Replace Commands */
07:14:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85819&oldid=85818 * Dtuser1337 * (+2) /* Function Commands */
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07:46:50 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85820&oldid=85819 * Dtuser1337 * (+1104) /* Functions and Libraries */
07:50:25 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85821&oldid=85820 * Dtuser1337 * (+9) /* Function Commands */
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08:10:56 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85822&oldid=85821 * Dtuser1337 * (+363) /* Hello World */
08:11:30 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85823&oldid=85822 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Complex Hello World */
08:14:36 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85824&oldid=85823 * Dtuser1337 * (+33) /* Function Commands */
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08:30:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85825&oldid=85824 * Dtuser1337 * (+467)
08:34:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85826&oldid=85825 * Dtuser1337 * (+2) /* Functions and Libraries */
08:44:11 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85827&oldid=85826 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Functions and Libraries */
08:50:24 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85828&oldid=85827 * Dtuser1337 * (+271) /* Function Commands */
08:52:02 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85829&oldid=85828 * Dtuser1337 * (-10) /* Replace Commands */
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09:04:51 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85830&oldid=85829 * Dtuser1337 * (+104) /* Hello World */
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09:48:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85831&oldid=85830 * Dtuser1337 * (+931) /* HQ9+ shell */
11:02:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LonelySpirit * New user account
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12:00:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Back * New user account
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12:11:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85832&oldid=85782 * Back * (+180) /* Introductions */
12:28:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85833 * Back * (+95) /* smile */ new section
12:32:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85834&oldid=85833 * Back * (+71)
12:33:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85835&oldid=85834 * Back * (+9)
12:34:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85836&oldid=85835 * Back * (+0)
12:35:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85837&oldid=85836 * Back * (+93) /* smile */
12:35:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85838&oldid=85837 * Back * (+4) /* Instruction set */
12:45:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85839&oldid=85838 * Back * (+140) /* Instruction set */
12:46:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85840&oldid=85839 * Back * (+0) /* Instruction set */
12:51:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85841&oldid=85840 * Back * (+66) /* Instruction set */
12:54:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85842&oldid=85841 * Back * (+74) /* Instruction set */
13:00:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85843&oldid=85812 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* T */ Techno, a year old today
13:00:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85844&oldid=85842 * Back * (+194) /* Instruction set */
13:01:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85845&oldid=85844 * Back * (+4) /* Instruction set */
13:02:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85846&oldid=85845 * Back * (+6) /* Instruction set */
13:02:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85847&oldid=85846 * Back * (+4) /* Instruction set */
13:08:08 <esolangs> [[Smile]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85848 * Back * (+760) Created page with "== smile == '''smile''' invented by [[brainfuck]].It decomposes [] into two parts q p and < >. == Instruction set == Line : 00: instructions ,01Pointer 1,02Pointer 2....."
13:08:26 <esolangs> [[User talk:Back]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85849&oldid=85847 * Back * (-760) Blanked the page
13:10:01 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85850&oldid=85848 * Back * (+18) /* Instruction set */
13:11:40 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85851&oldid=85850 * Back * (+21) /* Instruction set */
13:12:40 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85852&oldid=85851 * Back * (+42)
13:13:53 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85853&oldid=85852 * Back * (+34)
13:16:53 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85854&oldid=85853 * Back * (+121)
13:19:12 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85855&oldid=85854 * Back * (+20)
13:19:57 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85856&oldid=85855 * Back * (+3)
13:20:41 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85857&oldid=85856 * Back * (+8)
13:21:23 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85858&oldid=85831 * Dtuser1337 * (+4139) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
13:25:14 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85859&oldid=85858 * Dtuser1337 * (+143) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
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13:37:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85860&oldid=85859 * Dtuser1337 * (+401) /* Commands */
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14:14:27 <HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1239.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
14:22:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85861&oldid=85860 * Dtuser1337 * (+558) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
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15:55:09 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85862&oldid=84924 * Nakilon * (+862) moved in the AoC example from Github; reordered the instructions table
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16:00:39 <nakilon> oops, the change comment is wrong, lol, I moved another part of README
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16:20:24 <nakilon> so I finally adapted the AoC example to the swapn operator version
16:21:11 <nakilon> and shortened the check "== 2020" so it's now done differently in my version and fizzie's
16:21:44 <nakilon> I' not sure but it's probably somewhere here in Befunge '-:*5--
16:23:10 <nakilon> while I divided the number by 20 and checked if it's 101 like this K/"e"-:/
16:49:45 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85863&oldid=85630 * Flyingmadpakke * (+664) /* brainfuck */
16:59:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85864&oldid=85816 * Flyingmadpakke * (+293) /* Using integer overflow for a compact 18 bytes Truth-machine in Brainfuck? */
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17:31:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Ogu]] to [[Og]]: fix title
17:34:46 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85867&oldid=85861 * Dtuser1337 * (+2040) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
17:36:08 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85868&oldid=85867 * Dtuser1337 * (-3) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
17:39:03 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85869&oldid=85868 * Dtuser1337 * (+15) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
17:42:20 <fizzie> Yeah, the '-:*5-- is x-(45*45-5), using the closest square to 2020 (45² = 2025) to get there.
17:42:27 <fizzie> If you don't mind control characters in your source, 'e'*- (via 101*20) would have been shorter by one I guess.
17:45:11 <fizzie> Also potential space savings from the w instruction (that I never remember about), which pops two values, compares them, and then turns left, goes straight or turns right, depending on whether one is greater than, equal to, or less than the other. But that depends a little on the surroundings.
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17:47:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Airline food]] to [[Airline Food]]: fix title
17:47:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Talk:Airline food]] to [[Talk:Airline Food]]: fix title
17:50:27 * nakilon did the second try to write prime numbers generator and again right in the middle forgot how the code works
17:50:48 <nakilon> when your code is 3::\:?v:3\:2\%
17:50:56 <nakilon> and the stack is 3 3 2 3 0 0 0
17:51:15 <nakilon> all these 2 and 3 just make no sense ( I need IDE very much
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18:29:24 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85874&oldid=85869 * Dtuser1337 * (+158) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
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18:37:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Ss]] to [[SS (CatLooks)]]: fix title
18:41:43 <nakilon> oh finally 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103
18:45:17 <nakilon> 10 seconds to reach prime number 4409
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19:00:41 <nakilon> the automatic closing the "stale issues" is a cancer automation that shoyld be prohibited
19:01:42 <nakilon> here people asked to make it possible to make github count stats of your defined language if it's unknown to github-linguist https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/4435
19:01:52 <nakilon> but it got closed just because no one commented it for a while
19:03:00 <nakilon> and while the automation exists I'm pretty sure there is no workflow explanation if it's possible to reopen so the dude who got his issue closed doesn't reopen it
19:03:31 <nakilon> this stupid shit is probably invented by "effective managers" who just duplicate issues on daily basis and this is one of the way to duplicate them
19:05:56 <esolangs> [[A345120268A9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85877&oldid=82714 * LegionMammal978 * (-5) /* Interpreter */ fix link
19:08:46 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85878&oldid=85862 * Nakilon * (+139) /* Examples */ prime numbers generator
19:37:01 <esolangs> [[Nya~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85879&oldid=83076 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
19:40:58 <riv> https://twitter.com/hashtag/CLIP I find this AI generated images based on a text prompt very interesting
19:41:06 <riv> what do you think about this?
19:51:06 <esolangs> [[I-ok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85880&oldid=83222 * LegionMammal978 * (+15) fix title
19:53:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hyperdawg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85881 * LegionMammal978 * (+234) Created page with "You mention in [[Whopper]] that you created an interpreter in under 100 lines of Python; could you please upload that code? Thanks! ~~~~"
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22:28:46 <nakilon> https://www.reddit.com/user/yangwenli1/m/mapswithout/
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23:38:00 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85882&oldid=85863 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-18) /* brainfuck */ Simplify link
23:38:28 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85883&oldid=85882 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* brainfuck */ m
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00:04:04 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85884&oldid=85874 * Dtuser1337 * (+21) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
00:05:40 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85885&oldid=85884 * Dtuser1337 * (+26) /* Overview */
00:07:53 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85886&oldid=85885 * Dtuser1337 * (-54) /* Replace Commands */
00:09:59 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85887&oldid=85886 * Dtuser1337 * (+11) /* Overview */
00:10:40 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85888&oldid=85887 * Dtuser1337 * (-51) /* Overview */
00:10:53 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85889&oldid=85888 * Dtuser1337 * (+40) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
00:11:02 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85890&oldid=85889 * Dtuser1337 * (-1) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
00:13:25 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85891&oldid=85890 * Dtuser1337 * (+115) /* Comparative and Logical Statement */
00:15:14 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85892&oldid=85891 * Dtuser1337 * (-343) /* Functions and Libraries */
00:16:45 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85893&oldid=85892 * Dtuser1337 * (+388) /* Commands Examples */
00:27:08 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85894&oldid=85893 * Dtuser1337 * (+427) /* File I/O */
00:32:21 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85895&oldid=85894 * Dtuser1337 * (+273) /* Commands Examples */
00:34:39 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85896&oldid=85895 * Dtuser1337 * (-156) /* Function Commands */
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03:10:43 <zzo38> This is one of my idea of a Magic: the Gathering card: Enchanted permanent is snow, legendary, ongoing, and basic.
03:11:03 <zzo38> (My "generalized ongoing" rule suppresses the state-based actions for phenomena and Sagas as well as schemes.)
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05:57:10 <nakilon> What was the codegolf website? Do they accept esolangs?
05:59:36 <zzo38> What codegolf website do you mean? There are a few, I think.
06:04:33 <nakilon> It says I should email to add a language
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07:07:59 <zzo38> Do you think that a /Environment resource category should be added into PostScript?
07:37:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85897&oldid=85896 * Dtuser1337 * (-210) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
07:39:26 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85898&oldid=85897 * Dtuser1337 * (+74) /* File I/O Commands */
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10:52:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * AmNow * uploaded "[[File:2s1.jpeg]]": 2x2 scramble
11:02:35 <esolangs> [[F]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85900 * AmNow * (+1092) Created page with "F is an esoteric programming language made by [[User:AmNow]]. F resembles Rubiks cube notation. == Commands == The data is stored on a cube net. L## ### #..."
11:03:32 <esolangs> [[User:AmNow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85901&oldid=85611 * AmNow * (-10) added lang
11:04:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85902&oldid=85843 * AmNow * (+10) /* F */ added lang
11:11:13 <esolangs> [[F]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85903&oldid=85900 * AmNow * (+0) fixed spelling mistake in categories
11:12:53 <esolangs> [[User:Lyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85904&oldid=82271 * Razetime * (+38)
11:16:05 <esolangs> [[Vyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85905&oldid=82520 * JonoCode9374 * (+2)
11:17:11 <esolangs> [[User:Lyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85906&oldid=85904 * JonoCode9374 * (+52)
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11:37:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tams Tams * New user account
11:41:07 <esolangs> [[BinaryBefunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85907 * Dominicentek * (+3217) Created page with "BinaryBefunge is an esoteric programming language written by Dominicentek. It's a clone of [[Befunge]]. It's like Befunge, but all the characters are represented as binary. ==..."
11:41:21 <esolangs> [[BinaryBefunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85908&oldid=85907 * Dominicentek * (+5) /* Examples */
11:45:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85909&oldid=85832 * Tams Tams * (+220) /* Introductions */
11:48:27 <esolangs> [[Vyxal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85910&oldid=85905 * Tams Tams * (-1) Changed a not working link
11:50:16 <esolangs> [[Vyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85911&oldid=85910 * Tams Tams * (+0) Updated links
11:52:21 <esolangs> [[Vyxal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85912&oldid=85911 * Tams Tams * (+0) updated another link
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12:53:41 <b_jonas> nakilon: there are several codegolf websites
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15:08:30 <esolangs> [[BinaryBefunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85913&oldid=85908 * Dominicentek * (+64) /* Interpreter */
15:08:52 <esolangs> [[BinaryBefunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85914&oldid=85913 * Dominicentek * (+1)
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16:25:04 <esolangs> [[Processor.txt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85915&oldid=84818 * LegionMammal978 * (+21) fix title
16:44:31 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85916&oldid=85898 * Dtuser1337 * (+52) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
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16:49:17 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85917&oldid=85916 * Dtuser1337 * (+13) /* File I/O */
16:53:55 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85918&oldid=85917 * Dtuser1337 * (+174)
16:55:15 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85919&oldid=85918 * Dtuser1337 * (+91) /* Stacks */
16:56:29 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85920&oldid=85919 * Dtuser1337 * (+34) /* Stacks */
16:57:36 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85921&oldid=85920 * Dtuser1337 * (+56) /* Replace Commands */
17:04:19 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85922&oldid=85921 * Dtuser1337 * (+315) /* Stacks */
17:04:32 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85923&oldid=85922 * Dtuser1337 * (+3) /* Commands Examples */
17:04:40 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85924&oldid=85923 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* =Single Line Program */
17:08:35 <esolangs> [[SWING]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85925&oldid=85520 * LegionMammal978 * (+128) add links
17:08:59 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85926&oldid=85924 * Dtuser1337 * (+106) /* Replace Commands */
17:09:13 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85927&oldid=85926 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Replace Commands */
17:13:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Graverage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85928 * Aryantech123 * (+112) Created page with "==Making an interpreter== I am working on an interpreter. :[[User:Aryantech123|Aryantech123]] 17:12(UTC) 8/7/21"
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17:23:05 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85929&oldid=85857 * LegionMammal978 * (+28) fix title
17:28:52 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85930&oldid=85773 * Makonede * (+73)
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17:32:53 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85931&oldid=85929 * LegionMammal978 * (-1) fix mistake
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21:17:05 <esolangs> [[XAH]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85932 * Spargle * (+474) Created page with "= XAH = === (pronounced ehcks-Aahh) === == A library-based language with 3 commands built into the standard library: == {| class="wikitable" |+ List of Commands in the Standar..."
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21:17:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85933&oldid=85902 * Spargle * (+10) /* Non-alphabetic */
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21:18:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85934&oldid=85933 * Spargle * (+10) /* X */
21:22:28 <esolangs> [[Graverage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85935&oldid=80687 * Aryantech123 * (+603) Added implementation
21:23:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Graverage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85936&oldid=85928 * Aryantech123 * (+41)
21:24:29 <esolangs> [[XAH-libs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85937 * Spargle * (+15) Created page with "= back to XAH ="
21:25:23 <esolangs> [[XAH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85938&oldid=85932 * Spargle * (+83) /* examples: */
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21:44:01 <esolangs> [[XAH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85939&oldid=85938 * Spargle * (+1) /* examples: */
21:44:15 <esolangs> [[XAH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85940&oldid=85939 * Spargle * (+1) /* A library-based language with 3 commands built into the standard library: */
21:45:35 <esolangs> [[XAH-libs]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85941&oldid=85937 * Spargle * (+127) /* back to XAH */
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22:29:53 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85942&oldid=85653 * Tomhe * (+391) add infobox proglang
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00:48:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85943&oldid=85934 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) /* Non-alphabetic */ ...
01:02:00 <esolangs> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85944&oldid=83792 * RetroPain * (-64) /* List of Instuctions */
02:43:53 <esolangs> [[Nhohnhehr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85945&oldid=74769 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+3) /* Edge Crossing */ translation transformation
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03:28:55 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85946&oldid=85927 * Dtuser1337 * (+97) /* Commands */
03:31:07 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85947&oldid=85946 * Dtuser1337 * (-35) /* Beginning of the Sandbox line */
03:32:49 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85948&oldid=85947 * Dtuser1337 * (-9) /* Commands */
03:47:32 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85949&oldid=85948 * Dtuser1337 * (+581) /* Commands Examples */
03:48:00 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85950&oldid=85949 * Dtuser1337 * (+3) /* Named Function id */
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06:34:42 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85951&oldid=83441 * Aonodensetsu * (-6) /* External resources */
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07:54:54 <nakilon> I hate summer https://i.imgur.com/GNztFu6.png
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09:02:21 <hanif> s/summer/global warming/
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10:39:20 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85952&oldid=85400 * Dominicentek * (+20)
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11:48:53 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85953&oldid=85951 * Aonodensetsu * (+93) /* Undefined functions */
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13:00:29 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85954&oldid=85953 * Aonodensetsu * (+442)
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13:04:02 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85955&oldid=85954 * Aonodensetsu * (+189) /* Recursion */
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13:24:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85956&oldid=85943 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+20) /* B */ BinaryBefunge
13:47:10 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85957&oldid=85955 * Aonodensetsu * (-280)
13:47:27 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85958&oldid=85957 * Aonodensetsu * (-4) /* Extended manual */
13:48:00 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85959&oldid=85958 * Aonodensetsu * (+4)
13:50:45 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85960&oldid=85959 * Aonodensetsu * (-1) /* Commands */
13:58:02 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85961&oldid=85960 * Aonodensetsu * (-2) /* CALL */
13:59:08 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85962&oldid=85961 * Aonodensetsu * (+11) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
14:00:03 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85963&oldid=85962 * Aonodensetsu * (+16) /* CALL */
14:01:10 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85964&oldid=85963 * Aonodensetsu * (+0) /* CALL */
14:01:42 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85965&oldid=85964 * Aonodensetsu * (-17) /* CALL */
14:21:01 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85966&oldid=85965 * Aonodensetsu * (+290) /* CALL */
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14:24:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ChuckEsoteric08 * New user account
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15:36:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85967&oldid=85909 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+101)
15:36:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85968&oldid=85967 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
15:38:53 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85969 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+760) Created page with "GolfScratch - language for [[Golf|Coding Golf]] Made By [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] ==Commands== <code> PUSH - Push Something To The Stack(If It Is The ACC Push Accumulator) PO..."
15:45:42 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85970&oldid=85969 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+232)
15:48:11 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85971&oldid=85970 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+83)
15:48:53 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85972&oldid=85971 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-3)
15:49:26 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85973&oldid=85972 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
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15:54:06 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85974&oldid=83077 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+49)
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15:56:06 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85975 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+64) Created page with "Hello! I Made [[GolfScratch]] and [[Nope.]] interpreter in Batch"
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15:59:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:ChuckEsoteric08]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85976 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3) Created page with "Hi!"
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16:59:59 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85977 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+505) Created page with "IGNORED - Esolang That Ignore Every Programm! But It Prints I IGNORE PROGRAM *programm* So, You Can Make [[Hello World]], [[Quine]] and [[Cat]] Programms! ==Examples== ===..."
17:01:09 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85978&oldid=85977 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1)
17:06:24 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85979&oldid=85978 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+33)
17:07:14 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85980&oldid=85975 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+35)
17:09:28 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85981&oldid=85979 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+70) /* Implementations */
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17:48:49 <esolangs> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85982&oldid=85043 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+26)
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18:23:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85983&oldid=85956 * Andrew3335 * (+8)
18:49:18 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85984&oldid=85981 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+65)
18:49:49 <riv> not as fake as the "corona" "virus"
18:50:02 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85985&oldid=85984 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
18:50:28 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85986&oldid=85985 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0)
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19:26:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85987&oldid=85950 * Dtuser1337 * (-21719) Replaced content with "this is my sandbox page in which i use to draft some w.i.p stuff and experiment with these. plz do not touch with this sandbox page unless you want to fix some problem i..."
19:32:10 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85988 * Dtuser1337 * (+21719) Created page with " FlinnScrip is a programming language created in 2021 by [[User:Dtuser1337]]. The program syntax is inspired by [[Jug]]. ==Commands== All FlinnScrip Variables starts on 0, an..."
19:32:47 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85989&oldid=85988 * Dtuser1337 * (+65)
19:33:22 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85990&oldid=85983 * Dtuser1337 * (+17) /* F */
19:34:31 <esolangs> [[User:Dtuser1337]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85991&oldid=70411 * Dtuser1337 * (+17) /* My Creations */
19:38:29 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85992&oldid=85883 * Dtuser1337 * (+77) /* Fit */
19:44:10 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85993&oldid=85989 * Dtuser1337 * (+5) /* HQ9+ shell */
19:48:59 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85994&oldid=85993 * Dtuser1337 * (+138) /* Commands Examples */
19:50:33 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85995&oldid=85994 * Dtuser1337 * (+6) /* Commands */ more details
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20:04:10 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85996&oldid=85992 * Dtuser1337 * (-111) /* MailBox */
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20:18:40 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85997&oldid=85995 * Dtuser1337 * (+25)
20:20:58 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=85998&oldid=85997 * Dtuser1337 * (+3) /* ifcontain() */ fix
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22:59:23 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=85999 * PixelatedStarfish * (+611) Created page with "A memory muncher program proves Turing completeness by running a unary counter that exhausts unbounded memory over infinite time. It prints each value as it counts, and it exh..."
23:05:54 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86000&oldid=85999 * PixelatedStarfish * (+27)
23:06:31 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86001&oldid=85768 * PixelatedStarfish * (+22) /* Memory Muncher */
23:06:46 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86002&oldid=86001 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Memory Muncher */
23:08:40 <esolangs> [[Unary Counter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86003 * PixelatedStarfish * (+28) Redirected page to [[Memory Muncher]]
23:11:21 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86004&oldid=86000 * PixelatedStarfish * (+28)
23:15:22 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86005&oldid=86004 * PixelatedStarfish * (-169)
23:16:41 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86006&oldid=86005 * PixelatedStarfish * (+169) Undo revision 86005 by [[Special:Contributions/PixelatedStarfish|PixelatedStarfish]] ([[User talk:PixelatedStarfish|talk]])
23:21:14 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86007&oldid=86006 * PixelatedStarfish * (-637) Redirected page to [[Looping Counter]]
23:21:54 <esolangs> [[Memory Muncher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86008&oldid=86007 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[Looping Counter]] to [[Looping counter]]
23:22:54 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86009&oldid=75365 * PixelatedStarfish * (+410)
23:23:21 <esolangs> [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86010&oldid=86009 * PixelatedStarfish * (-14)
23:26:05 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86011&oldid=86002 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Memory Muncher */
23:26:15 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86012&oldid=86011 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Looping Counter */
23:27:15 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86013&oldid=86012 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Looping Counter */
23:27:39 <esolangs> [[Looping Counter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86014 * PixelatedStarfish * (+29) Redirected page to [[Looping Counter]]
23:27:52 <esolangs> [[Looping Counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86015&oldid=86014 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[Looping Counter]] to [[Looping counter]]
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00:02:26 <nakilon> why global warming is fake
00:02:51 <nakilon> ^ I guess it's enough good search query for citations
00:05:12 <nakilon> search results only give forum posts, no scientific proofs
00:08:32 <nakilon> the fake part of it is the "the greenhouse effect"
00:12:22 <keegan> "proofs" only exist in maths, not natural science
00:21:06 <nakilon> it was shown by dirlling and inspecting the ice that higher level of CO2 led to decrease of temerature, not increase
00:21:45 <nakilon> another detail is that water plays even much bigger role in the effect than CO2
00:23:45 <nakilon> so saying that our CO2 emission makes the earth warmer is nothing more than someone's economic interest propaganda
00:26:56 <nakilon> personally I pretty clearly see that the biggest threat to humanity isn't this stuff or even nuclear war but the level of illiteracy in the way how people are absolutely plain stupid to be able to fight an infectious pandemic
00:27:37 <nakilon> all our "scientific progress" is just nothing and does not make us stronger at all because masses are idiots
00:29:08 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86016&oldid=85658 * Rphii * (-900) /* Examples */ update examples
00:30:15 <nakilon> another thread would be a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova but it's nothing we can do about it
00:33:12 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86017&oldid=86016 * Rphii * (+192) /* Input */ fix
00:33:31 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86018&oldid=86017 * Rphii * (+5) /* Output */ fix
00:34:16 <keegan> it's funny because here the people who think global warming is fake are also the ones who think covid is fake and refuse to wear a mask or get vaccinated
00:34:25 <int-e> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ice-core-data-help-solve/
00:34:57 <keegan> when the willfully ignorant start dying from delta variant covid while the rest of us are fine then i'm sure they'll have a conspiracy theory to explain that too
00:35:03 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86019&oldid=86018 * Rphii * (+103) add implementation github
00:35:24 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86020&oldid=86019 * Rphii * (-2) fix category...
00:36:55 <keegan> basically anything that would require them to change their lifestyle even a tiny bit is fake
00:36:59 <keegan> people are so fucking entitled
00:44:37 <nakilon> keegan people who instead of trying to listen to scientists only read their facebook feed can believe in any combination of things
00:44:46 <nakilon> even that earth is not flat
01:09:29 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86021&oldid=86020 * Rphii * (+50) /* Loop, else and invert */ LEAI
01:13:35 <keegan> i think the earth is actually a klein bottle
01:13:51 <keegan> if you keep walking north you eventually end up at the "south pole" but with left and right reversed
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01:22:26 <hendursaga> I've never met a Flat Earther who literally thought the Earth was flat, in the sense that, it had edges you'd fall off
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03:13:39 <esolangs> [[Something]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86022 * PixelatedStarfish * (+597) Created page with " {{infobox proglang |name=Something |author=[[User:PixelatedStarfish]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |paradigms=Imperative |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |majorim..."
03:13:56 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86023&oldid=86022 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* External Links */
03:15:14 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86024&oldid=86023 * PixelatedStarfish * (+36)
04:49:44 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86025&oldid=85998 * Dtuser1337 * (+6) /* Stacks */ fix
05:39:29 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86026&oldid=86025 * Dtuser1337 * (+160) /* Function Commands */
05:39:56 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86027&oldid=86026 * Dtuser1337 * (+0) /* Implementation Dependent Commands */
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06:53:12 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86028&oldid=85986 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+106)
06:53:38 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86029&oldid=86028 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-4)
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14:01:20 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86030&oldid=86021 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Implementation */ m
14:02:39 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86031&oldid=86030 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) /* Implementation */ Pattern-based
14:05:24 <esolangs> [[IGNORED]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86032&oldid=86029 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+67) /* Exterenal Resourses */ Cat
14:10:03 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86033&oldid=85974 * Dtuser1337 * (+173)
14:10:56 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86034&oldid=85990 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Add languages
14:11:56 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86035&oldid=86033 * Dtuser1337 * (+11) /* MailBox */
14:13:20 <esolangs> [[ILLGOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86036&oldid=13475 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+11) Update link
14:19:53 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86037&oldid=86027 * Dtuser1337 * (+51) /* Complex Hello World */
14:20:05 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86038&oldid=86037 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Infinite loops */
14:23:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:FlinnScrip]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86039 * Dtuser1337 * (+241) Created page with "==Need someone prove the computational class of this language i made== Can someone try to prove the computational class of my very own language i made?--~~~~"
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15:00:41 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86040&oldid=85973 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* External links */ CatS
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15:52:54 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86041&oldid=86024 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1)
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15:59:54 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86042&oldid=86041 * PixelatedStarfish * (+110)
16:02:30 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86043&oldid=86042 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2)
16:03:35 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86044&oldid=86043 * PixelatedStarfish * (-16)
16:37:18 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86045&oldid=86044 * PixelatedStarfish * (+225)
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16:53:37 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86046&oldid=86045 * PixelatedStarfish * (+229)
17:01:04 <esolangs> [[IG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86047 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+819) Created page with "{{stub}} IG - Esoteric programing language by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08|ChuckEsoteric08]]. Language Named after 2 first commands that has been add. ==Commands== i - if STDIN is..."
17:06:26 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86048&oldid=86046 * PixelatedStarfish * (+609) /* Instructions */
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17:32:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Algesuar * New user account
17:50:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86049&oldid=85968 * Algesuar * (+76) To visit my site search for the "HP41 Emulator Page"
17:51:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86050&oldid=86049 * Algesuar * (+0)
17:52:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86051&oldid=86050 * Algesuar * (+0)
17:56:40 <riv> int-e, regarding corners https://www.speedsolving.com/threads/restriction-games-with-the-cube-subgroups.79140/#post-1446921
17:58:05 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86052&oldid=86035 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+44)
17:59:47 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86053&oldid=85980 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+23)
18:10:34 <riv> > [1..48] \\ [3,6,11,17,27,33,14,24,30,40,43,46]
18:10:36 <lambdabot> [1,2,4,5,7,8,9,10,12,13,15,16,18,19,20,21,22,23,25,26,28,29,31,32,34,35,36,3...
18:10:56 <riv> > [36..48] \\ [3,6,11,17,27,33,14,24,30,40,43,46]
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18:16:32 <b_jonas> ] ']',~'[',}.;(',',":)&.> (>:i.48)-. 3 6 11 17 27 33 14 24 30 40 43 46
18:16:42 <b_jonas> [ ']',~'[',}.;(',',":)&.> (>:i.48)-. 3 6 11 17 27 33 14 24 30 40 43 46
18:16:42 <j-bot> b_jonas: [1,2,4,5,7,8,9,10,12,13,15,16,18,19,20,21,22,23,25,26,28,29,31,32,34,35,36,37,38,39,41,42,44,45,47,48]
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18:26:36 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86054&oldid=86048 * PixelatedStarfish * (+160) /* Instructions */
18:28:42 <int-e> riv: ah, associating opposite corners helps a lot
18:29:11 <esolangs> [[Hello++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86055&oldid=69240 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+187)
18:34:05 <esolangs> [[Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86056&oldid=81648 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+98)
18:36:31 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86057&oldid=86053 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+63)
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18:44:12 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86058 * Algesuar * (+2448) First edit and explanation of Focal-2D
18:50:30 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86059&oldid=86058 * Algesuar * (+24)
18:52:42 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86060&oldid=86059 * Algesuar * (-7)
19:23:20 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ/Old]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86061&oldid=78161 * Rdococ * (-1408)
19:23:46 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ/Old]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86062&oldid=86061 * Rdococ * (-161) /* Badder ones */
19:24:28 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86063&oldid=82298 * Rdococ * (-153)
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20:09:37 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86064&oldid=86054 * PixelatedStarfish * (+386) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
20:24:34 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86065&oldid=85952 * Dominicentek * (+22)
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20:37:41 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86066&oldid=86060 * Algesuar * (-1)
20:37:49 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86067&oldid=83002 * Digital Hunter * (+1983) /* Example programs */ added a set of finite loop demos, along with making a few changes to other sections as well
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20:45:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86068&oldid=86034 * Algesuar * (+15) New entry : Focal-2D
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21:20:41 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86069 * Dominicentek * (+4267) Created page with "Boxes is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Dominicentek]]. It's code is stored in several boxes which can be put anywhere in the source code. == Boxes == ===..."
21:21:57 <fizzie> Odd. It's allegedly still running.
21:22:06 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86070&oldid=86069 * Dominicentek * (+1) Fixed HTML error
21:22:48 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86071&oldid=86070 * Dominicentek * (+1) Fixed error in example code
21:23:14 <oerjan> those don't usually give that message, i think.
21:24:04 <fizzie> I upgraded a router kind of a thing on the way, that's probably why it initially dropped off. But it should've realized that and given up and restarted.
21:24:08 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86072&oldid=86065 * Dominicentek * (-10)
21:25:20 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86073&oldid=86068 * Dominicentek * (+12) /* B */
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21:26:41 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86074&oldid=86071 * Dominicentek * (+18) Formatting fix
21:27:18 <fizzie> Maybe there's some sort of a thing that it hangs up instead of exiting when the connection is lost. Or just takes a long time to time out, or something.
21:27:55 <fizzie> Because just doing `/etc/init.d/fungot restart` was sufficient to make it reconnect. (It still doesn't know how to autojoin channels, but one step at a time...)
21:27:55 <fungot> fizzie: spammers attack the community scheme wiki
21:28:17 <fizzie> fungot: That's terrible! But unsurprising.
21:28:17 <fungot> fizzie: aren't continuations garbage collected like anything else that consumes files here, do you? :) forgot?
21:29:53 <oerjan> fungot: recycling is omnipresent these days
21:29:53 <fungot> oerjan: i don't think a ,dump would help?:) i hate that change too.
21:30:14 <oerjan> fungot: indeed, dumps are greatly frowned upon.
21:30:14 <fungot> oerjan: how is look-for-header defined? procedure, you're doing something wrong
21:39:10 <int-e> semi-open tcp connections are nasty, lambdabot used to constantly suffer from those
21:41:44 <int-e> (The fix I settled on was to have lambdabot send its own pings...)
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22:06:22 <fizzie> int-e: Yeah, that's a little hard to arrange in the fungot context though, because all the SOCK fingerprint gives me is a blocking read call with no timeouts.
22:06:22 <fungot> fizzie: just curious. i think i'll leave one of those people. 23:00 fnord): fnord, but conditionally fnord... could be
22:13:10 <int-e> fizzie: yeah I almost wrote that this would probably be harder in Befunge
22:15:00 <int-e> Hacking something with SO_KEEPALIVE and a much shorter tcp_keepalive_time might work?
22:15:32 <int-e> maybe the problem just isn't important enough...
22:16:03 <int-e> with lambdabot it was happening once a week; fungot seems to be less affected
22:16:03 <fungot> int-e: http://rune.krokodille.com/ lang/ logos.html!! also efrem zimbalist, either
22:18:51 <fizzie> Think I'll need to first fix that persisted ignore list and autojoin, otherwise it won't really make a difference.
22:19:10 <fizzie> Or else bring back the old "put a bouncer in front" setup I was using, I just don't wanna.
22:42:16 <b_jonas> "it should've realized that [it dropped] and given up and restarted" => ahahahah! in theory, jevalbot should realize when the connection breaks, at least a few minutes after when it doesn't get a ping. in practice, it prints a message that the connection got broken, but for some reason doesn't exit. I've given up trying to debug that even back when I even tried to maintain jevalbot.
22:50:27 <fizzie> Heh. Well, this one does actually quit if the R instruction reflects, by printing "IRC read failed." and hitting a @. Which does happen if the remote side closes the connection. But of course not if it breaks in the wrong way.
22:53:50 <b_jonas> "breaks in the wrong way" => I assume that's an occupational hazard for writing code in befunge
23:00:23 <int-e> b_jonas: this "wrong way" has nothing to do with befunge though
23:02:02 <int-e> It's just a quirk of TCP because of the design decision that TCP connections can stay open forever without any packets being sent whatsoever.
23:10:52 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, but that delays you by at most a few minutes, after that you can detect the broken connection from the higher level protocol, such as IRC in this case
23:11:24 <b_jonas> which is exactly how jevalbot detects a broken connection (in some cases at least), it just somehow prints a message and can't exit properly
23:12:39 <b_jonas> sure, it would be nice to detect broken connections earlier, but eventually on a non-realtime network you will have some delay, and it's not worth to optimize that delay too much
23:13:27 <fizzie> Ooh, the SOCK fingerprint's O instruction can in fact set SO_KEEPALIVE.
23:15:14 <fizzie> (It'd still be very slow, but at least it'd trip eventually even if I'm not around.)
23:17:35 <int-e> b_jonas: You can only do that if the higher level data protocol sends data from both sides.
23:17:40 <int-e> without being prompted
23:18:07 <int-e> b_jonas: Which, for a stupid IRC client, isn't necessarily the case.
23:18:25 <fizzie> fungot: How do you feel about being called stupid?
23:18:25 <fungot> fizzie: the weather doesn't help. :) it looks decent in firebird, btw
23:19:27 <int-e> I'd s/stupid/simple/ but I'm not sure that is an improvement :P
23:30:11 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86075&oldid=86031 * Rphii * (+188) /* Examples */ add ascii table example
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23:38:16 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86076&oldid=86075 * Rphii * (-6) /* Ascii table */ simpler version...
23:46:20 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86077&oldid=86076 * Rphii * (-1) /* Variables */ grammar
23:58:48 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86078&oldid=86077 * Rphii * (+59) /* Input */ clarify
00:05:13 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86079&oldid=86078 * Rphii * (+98) /* Input */ clarify (I hope it's decipherable) & add sugar
00:05:37 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86080&oldid=86079 * Rphii * (+26) /* Output */ sugar
00:11:20 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86081&oldid=85942 * Tomhe * (-57) new syntax update (F => F; new macro definition, no [len]val)
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00:29:59 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86082&oldid=86081 * Tomhe * (+119) /* Repititions */ - new "n" restrictions (better)
00:36:33 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86083&oldid=86064 * PixelatedStarfish * (+92) /* Instructions */
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00:39:32 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86084&oldid=86083 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Instructions */
00:51:46 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86085&oldid=86084 * PixelatedStarfish * (+10) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
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00:55:22 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86086&oldid=86085 * PixelatedStarfish * (-24) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
00:59:00 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86087&oldid=86086 * PixelatedStarfish * (+35) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:00:31 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86088&oldid=86087 * PixelatedStarfish * (+45) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:00:59 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86089&oldid=86088 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:01:34 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86090&oldid=86089 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:05:12 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86091&oldid=86090 * PixelatedStarfish * (+10) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:06:08 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86092&oldid=86091 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:08:06 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86093&oldid=86092 * PixelatedStarfish * (+171) /* External Resources */
01:08:56 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86094&oldid=86093 * PixelatedStarfish * (+13) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
01:14:37 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86095&oldid=86094 * PixelatedStarfish * (+30)
01:15:23 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86096&oldid=86066 * Algesuar * (-1)
01:15:39 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86097&oldid=86095 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2)
01:15:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded "[[File:Something.png]]"
01:17:01 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86099&oldid=86097 * PixelatedStarfish * (-35)
01:17:39 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86100&oldid=86099 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1)
01:58:19 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86101&oldid=86096 * Algesuar * (+22)
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03:27:30 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86102&oldid=86100 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* Instructions */
03:28:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:Something]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86103 * PixelatedStarfish * (+5) Created page with "Hi :D"
03:29:31 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86104&oldid=86102 * PixelatedStarfish * (+100) /* Instructions */
03:29:44 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, you have to make sure your client does that
03:30:19 <b_jonas> fizzie: do you mean the SOCKS proxy of TCP? or some other SOCK
03:31:58 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86105&oldid=86104 * PixelatedStarfish * (+13)
03:32:28 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86106&oldid=86105 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2)
03:32:59 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86107&oldid=86106 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
03:33:35 <fizzie> SOCK is a Funge-98 fingerprint that does networking.
03:34:53 <esolangs> [[Brainfood]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86108 * PixelatedStarfish * (+14) Created page with "#REDIRECT [bf]"
03:35:00 <esolangs> [[Brainfood]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86109&oldid=86108 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) Redirected page to [[Bf]]
03:35:33 <esolangs> [[Brainfood]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86110&oldid=86109 * PixelatedStarfish * (+7) Changed redirect target from [[Bf]] to [[Brainfuck]]
03:41:17 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86111&oldid=85996 * PixelatedStarfish * (+131) /* Implementations */
03:41:36 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86112&oldid=86111 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* Something */
03:47:21 <esolangs> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86113&oldid=85982 * PixelatedStarfish * (+26) /* Real Quines */
03:54:19 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86114&oldid=86107 * PixelatedStarfish * (+254)
03:54:33 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86115&oldid=86114 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* [Hello World]] */
04:03:11 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86116&oldid=86115 * PixelatedStarfish * (+25) /* Program Examples */
04:03:40 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86117&oldid=86116 * PixelatedStarfish * (+75) /* Truth Machine */
04:04:19 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86118&oldid=86117 * PixelatedStarfish * (+31) /* Truth Machine */
04:07:15 <esolangs> [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86119&oldid=85239 * PixelatedStarfish * (+184)
04:07:52 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86120&oldid=86118 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4)
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04:41:58 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86121&oldid=86013 * PixelatedStarfish * (-990) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
04:42:30 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86122&oldid=86121 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
04:44:49 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86123&oldid=86122 * PixelatedStarfish * (+50) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
04:45:05 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86124&oldid=86123 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
04:46:16 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86125&oldid=86124 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
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05:20:07 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86126&oldid=86125 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
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09:26:45 * nakilon is a bit moving from Stackdriver to RRDTools
09:27:35 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/Gmmunfo.png -- this took a lot of time to bring together
09:28:50 <nakilon> then a bit of time to push the data to Datastore (GCP's NoSQL) and now gotta make a Cloud Run with https:// url that I would just visit and it will render this stuff
09:30:15 <nakilon> I'll lose some Stackdriver's features such as Alerting but I'm now not limited to their API that for example demands the "Resource" to be something of GCP or AWS while my server can be in fact anywhere else
09:32:15 <riv> i hope the graph gets more interesting
09:36:00 <nakilon> this one will be like this https://i.imgur.com/WFOfKy9.png and another one like this https://i.imgur.com/dUxsNZ1.png
09:38:12 <nakilon> and another problem (besides the stupid Resource id) it solves is that Stackdriver does not accept timeseries to the same metric older than the last that was already pushed
09:38:54 <nakilon> so I was unable to push to the same graph from two servers that have different time on them
09:40:37 <nakilon> while this is one is doing `.order("timestamp", :desc).limit(limit)` from the db
09:45:07 <shachaf> Man, the x86 shift instructions are a total mess.
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11:03:24 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86127&oldid=86082 * Tomhe * (+174) Major Syntax Update - macro call/def, rep, reserved
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11:05:46 <nakilon> fffffffuuuuuuuuu librrd gem does not install on alpine
11:06:41 <nakilon> and I can't even really try different versions of alpine because the netpbm is only available in alpine:edge
11:07:01 <nakilon> and I need it to join PNGs into one
11:07:45 <nakilon> I wish there was a way to know ahead if something will stop you after hours of building
11:13:26 <nakilon> oh no, I can't, because I use shell2http that is built only on alpine _--
11:33:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CocaEric * New user account
11:38:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86128&oldid=86051 * CocaEric * (+105) /* Introductions */
11:39:01 <esolangs> [[User:CocaEric]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86129 * CocaEric * (+6) Created page with "Hello!"
11:45:30 <nakilon> okay Golang makes shell2http easily buildable on Debian Stretch, but I get the same error https://github.com/bernd/librrd-ruby/issues/6
11:45:42 <nakilon> linux-vs-nakilon score 1:0
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13:38:13 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86130&oldid=86074 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+90) /* Interpreter */ ;
13:45:53 <esolangs> [[Focal-2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86131&oldid=86101 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+104) c.
13:46:19 <esolangs> [[Hello++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86132&oldid=86055 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Interpreter */ Typo
14:07:55 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86133&oldid=86038 * Dtuser1337 * (+5) /* Truth-Machine */
14:30:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86134&oldid=86073 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+16) /* S */ Add Something
14:36:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Something.png]]"
14:36:44 <nakilon> $ gcloud run services get-iam-policy ...
14:41:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] revert * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Something.png]]": Reverted to version as of 01:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
14:42:07 <esolangs> [[NUMBRS++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86137 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1146) Created page with "'''NUMBRS''' - Two-dimensional made in Scratch esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08|ChuckEsotric08]]. This Esolang have this name because most of Commands in this language is nu..."
14:43:45 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86138&oldid=86120 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3)
14:43:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * PixelatedStarfish * uploaded "[[File:Name pending.gif]]"
14:44:17 <esolangs> [[NUMBRS++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86140&oldid=86137 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+90)
14:44:45 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86141&oldid=86138 * PixelatedStarfish * (+26)
14:45:10 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86142&oldid=86057 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+14)
14:45:11 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86143&oldid=86141 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1)
14:45:24 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86144&oldid=86143 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4)
14:48:34 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86145&oldid=86133 * Dtuser1337 * (+303) /* HQ9+ shell */
14:51:56 <esolangs> [[File:Something.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86146&oldid=86136 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+34) m
14:52:12 <esolangs> [[File:Something.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86147&oldid=86146 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) m
14:52:24 <esolangs> [[File:Name pending.gif]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86148&oldid=86139 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) .
14:52:36 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86149&oldid=86145 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Deadfish shell */ bugfix
14:52:56 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86150&oldid=85615 * Dtuser1337 * (+305) /* Fishing */
14:53:14 <esolangs> [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86151&oldid=86119 * PixelatedStarfish * (+7) /* Links */
14:53:47 <esolangs> [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86152&oldid=86151 * PixelatedStarfish * (+16)
14:54:13 <esolangs> [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86153&oldid=86152 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* =Esolangs */
14:55:17 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86154&oldid=86149 * Dtuser1337 * (-3) /* Examples */
14:56:59 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86155&oldid=86126 * PixelatedStarfish * (-4) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
14:58:41 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86156&oldid=86155 * PixelatedStarfish * (+105) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
15:11:03 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86157&oldid=86112 * Oshaboy * (+106) Added Eek and golfed C-Intercal a bit.
15:13:37 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86158&oldid=86156 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* External resources */
15:18:48 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86159&oldid=86157 * Oshaboy * (-43) /* C-INTERCAL */
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15:32:14 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86160&oldid=86158 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1113)
15:35:02 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86161&oldid=86160 * PixelatedStarfish * (+165) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
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15:41:40 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86162&oldid=86154 * Dtuser1337 * (+42) /* Implementation Dependent Commands */
15:55:22 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86163&oldid=86161 * PixelatedStarfish * (+232)
15:56:07 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86164&oldid=86163 * PixelatedStarfish * (+5)
15:56:31 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86165&oldid=86164 * PixelatedStarfish * (-13)
16:02:07 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86166&oldid=86165 * PixelatedStarfish * (-28) /* External resources */
16:02:35 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86167&oldid=86166 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Tobysil */
16:05:08 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86168&oldid=86167 * PixelatedStarfish * (+91) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
16:05:41 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86169&oldid=86168 * PixelatedStarfish * (+5) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
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17:39:56 <esolangs> [[Logic Gates]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86170 * PixelatedStarfish * (+536) Created page with " A Logic Gate program is a program that implements AND OR and NOT as boolean operations in some programming language. This is helpful in demonstrating that a programming langu..."
17:40:23 <esolangs> [[Logic Gates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86171&oldid=86170 * PixelatedStarfish * (+29)
17:40:54 <esolangs> [[Logic Gates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86172&oldid=86171 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0)
17:42:12 <esolangs> [[Logic Gates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86173&oldid=86172 * PixelatedStarfish * (+66)
17:43:43 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86174&oldid=86169 * PixelatedStarfish * (-39) /* Logic Gates */
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18:20:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ArthroStar11 * New user account
18:32:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86175&oldid=86128 * ArthroStar11 * (+254) added my intro, hopefully I did it right
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20:47:59 <esolangs> [[DotSF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86176 * ArthroStar11 * (+2435) created page and provided link to my interpreter
20:49:52 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86177&oldid=86134 * ArthroStar11 * (+12) Added my language "DostSF
21:27:19 <esolangs> [[User:ArthroStar11]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86178 * ArthroStar11 * (+149) Created page with "Hi, I am the creator of * DotSF ** [https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1SOzu0wSfp2GrheIWAJ4GrzOGcIevpigb?usp=sharing My interpreter (C++ Source)]"
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23:43:44 <esolangs> [[Logic Gates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86179&oldid=86173 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) External resources, wikilink, etc
23:53:53 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86180&oldid=86067 * Digital Hunter * (-4) /* Roman numerals */ shorter. as it turns out, not caring about the mess on the stack helps keep code a little shorter
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00:30:06 <esolangs> [[User:ArthroStar11]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86181&oldid=86178 * ArthroStar11 * (+4)
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01:37:10 <zzo38> Is there a internet language code to indicate a made up language in general (rather than a specific made up language)?
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03:21:48 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86182&oldid=84433 * Sanscicondos * (+55) Added wheelstock to Functions list
03:24:07 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86183&oldid=86182 * Sanscicondos * (+29) Added abbreviated titles to versions tab
03:26:48 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86184&oldid=86183 * Sanscicondos * (+15) Reworked formatting of abbreviated versions
03:28:56 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86185&oldid=86184 * Sanscicondos * (+22) Added correct version names to function list
03:43:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86186&oldid=85779 * Sanscicondos * (+1384) /* Upcoming Features */ new section
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07:15:04 <zzo38> My idea of a compression format is that there is three kind of blocks, you can then put them in any sequence. The three kind of blocks are program blocks, stream blocks, and literal blocks; any of these blocks may optionally be huffed.
07:17:01 <zzo38> The program block contains VM codes. Execution stops when it requests input. The stream blocks contain input data for the VM code program; the execution then continues and may produce output, stopping again if the end of the stream block is reached. A literal block is just written directly to the output (after being unhuffed if needed).
07:17:09 <zzo38> Do you think it is good?
07:17:51 <keegan> what kind of VM would you use?
07:18:29 <zzo38> I don't know, but probably some specialized instruction set for this purpose.
07:18:33 <keegan> any provisions to ensure progress/termination?
07:19:10 <keegan> if you have a new program block in the stream does it replace the old program? once all the preceding data has run out?
07:20:46 <zzo38> Yes, it would replace the old program once the preceding data has run out.
07:21:52 <zzo38> However, you could also have only overwriting parts of it, and without necessarily restarting it; for some kinds of compression algorithms this might help.
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08:05:49 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86187&oldid=86159 * Dtuser1337 * (+30) /* dotlang */
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08:08:24 <myname> https://briancallahan.net/blog/20210710.html
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08:11:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:ArthroStar11]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86188 * Dtuser1337 * (+193) Created page with "==I have a request== Can you please try to implement my programming language [[BrainfisHQ9+]], please? --~~~~"
08:12:23 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86189&oldid=86080 * Rphii * (+33) /* Initialization */
08:13:57 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86190&oldid=86189 * Rphii * (+2) /* Initialization */
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09:26:39 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86191&oldid=86190 * Rphii * (+302) add infobox
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09:37:03 <esolangs> [[User:Rphii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86192&oldid=85637 * Rphii * (+113)
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11:00:30 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86193&oldid=86177 * Back * (+12) /* S */
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11:11:29 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86194&oldid=85931 * Back * (+210)
11:21:10 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86195&oldid=86194 * Back * (+126)
11:26:08 <esolangs> [[Smile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86196&oldid=86195 * Back * (+160)
11:30:39 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86197&oldid=86196 * Back * (+101)
11:36:38 <esolangs> [[Smile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86198&oldid=86197 * Back * (+272)
11:45:58 <esolangs> [[Smile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86199&oldid=86198 * Back * (+604)
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11:52:08 <esolangs> [[Smile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86200&oldid=86199 * Back * (+241)
11:56:56 <esolangs> [[Smile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86201&oldid=86200 * Back * (+75)
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12:14:16 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86202&oldid=86191 * Rphii * (+133) /* Memory Bank */ add the previously hidden bank
12:19:46 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86203&oldid=63517 * Back * (-5) /* Examples */
12:22:31 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86204&oldid=86203 * Back * (+0) /* Language overview */
12:24:07 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86205&oldid=86202 * Rphii * (-133) Undo revision 86202 by [[Special:Contributions/Rphii|Rphii]] ([[User talk:Rphii|talk]])
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12:41:59 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86206&oldid=86205 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-9) Not a category
12:42:59 <esolangs> [[Smile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86207&oldid=86201 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+38) Cat
12:45:11 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86208&oldid=86206 * Rphii * (+337) /* Loop, else and invert */ fix explanation
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14:25:54 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86209&oldid=86204 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+28) /* External resources */ Tar
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15:22:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Queereen * New user account
16:00:43 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86210&oldid=86174 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
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19:26:06 <esolangs> [[INF)xO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86211 * AmNow * (+1630) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=INF>xO}} INF>xO is an esoteric programming language made by [[User:AmNow]]. INF>xO was made so that you can have infinite output without loops. == Commands..."
19:27:21 <esolangs> [[User:AmNow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86212&oldid=85901 * AmNow * (+38) added language
19:28:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86213&oldid=86193 * AmNow * (+20) added lang
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23:35:03 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86214&oldid=85777 * S1(210) * (-1) /* Output formatting */
23:36:34 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86215&oldid=86214 * S1(210) * (-172) /* Truth machine */
23:37:47 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86216&oldid=86209 * Back * (-1) /* Examples */
23:40:03 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86217&oldid=86215 * S1(210) * (+46) /* Output formatting */
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23:42:20 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86218&oldid=86217 * S1(210) * (+1) /* Output formatting */
23:43:20 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86219&oldid=86218 * S1(210) * (+3) /* For and while loops */
23:45:43 <esolangs> [[RHOVL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86220&oldid=86219 * S1(210) * (+84)
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00:42:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dtuser1337]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86221 * ArthroStar11 * (+515) Created page with "== Reply to your request == Hello [[User:ArthroStar11]] here. I am responding to your request for a [[BrainfisHQ9+]] interpreter. I'll accept your request. I just have a coupl..."
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02:17:48 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86222&oldid=86210 * PixelatedStarfish * (+13) /* The tape */
02:18:15 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86223&oldid=86222 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1)
02:20:40 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86224&oldid=86223 * PixelatedStarfish * (-45) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
02:22:15 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86225&oldid=86224 * PixelatedStarfish * (+11) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
02:26:01 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86226&oldid=86225 * PixelatedStarfish * (+55) /* On the Turing Completeness of Blood32 */
02:27:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dtuser1337]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86227&oldid=86221 * ArthroStar11 * (+892)
02:28:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dtuser1337]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86228&oldid=86227 * ArthroStar11 * (+1) made update block more readable
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04:36:15 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86229&oldid=86187 * KakkoiiChris * (+413) Added my language 'Minim' to the list of implementations
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05:00:07 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86230&oldid=84868 * KakkoiiChris * (-197) Minim now uses 32-bit floating-point values as terminal values, instead of bytes.
05:46:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Dtuser1337]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86231&oldid=86228 * ArthroStar11 * (+767)
05:51:50 <esolangs> [[BrainfisHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86232&oldid=73359 * ArthroStar11 * (+170) Provided link to my implementation and clarified compatibility
05:54:51 <esolangs> [[User:ArthroStar11]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86233&oldid=86181 * ArthroStar11 * (+200)
06:17:39 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86234&oldid=86230 * KakkoiiChris * (+138) Added year of creation, and a example program that illustrates using system function calls
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07:18:55 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86235&oldid=86208 * Rphii * (+55) /* Examples */ add light interpreter
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07:53:08 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86236&oldid=86235 * Rphii * (+0) /* ight interpreter */ improve
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09:25:33 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86237&oldid=86216 * Back * (+3) /* Examples */
10:42:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Seanbox * New user account
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13:01:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86238&oldid=85772 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+729) /* External Resources */
13:01:31 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86239&oldid=86130 * Not applicable * (-39) Remove 2D category this isn't really a 2D language
13:02:46 <fizzie> What is it with people and not indenting C code at all.
13:05:05 <myname> still better than wrong indentation
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13:18:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86240&oldid=86238 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+868) /* External Resources */
13:24:39 <esolangs> [[ight]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86241&oldid=75169 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+132) Categorize
13:25:44 <esolangs> [[ight]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86242&oldid=86241 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) Fix
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14:27:39 <esolangs> [[MONOD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86243&oldid=32457 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) Deadlink
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15:22:47 <esolangs> [[User:Osmarks/2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86244&oldid=76525 * Osmarks * (+380)
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16:55:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:ArthroStar11]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86245&oldid=86188 * ArthroStar11 * (-178) completed request so removed section
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19:12:19 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86246&oldid=86072 * Dominicentek * (+461) html edit
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21:19:59 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86247&oldid=86239 * Dominicentek * (+17) /* Instructions */
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22:16:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dlol * New user account
22:22:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86248&oldid=86175 * Dlol * (+187) /* Introductions */
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01:13:19 <fizzie> Oog, what's happened to VS code's integrated terminal's font rendering? The letter positioning's gone all wonky. https://zem.fi/tmp/uu.png
01:13:24 <fizzie> It's like one of those ransom notices made from newspaper cuttings.
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01:14:09 <Hooloovoo> have you tried turning it off and back on again?
01:14:24 <fizzie> I did, though for an unrelated reason.
01:14:45 <Hooloovoo> I think I've seen things like that (on linux) when fonts/font rendering packages have upgraded
01:15:31 <fizzie> Also, when it's rendering red text, it's all right. It's only white text that's problematic.
01:16:24 <fizzie> In fact, explicitly white text is also fine. It's just the terminal's default colour that's off.
01:17:05 <fizzie> Maybe some sort of a hinting/subpixel thing that's disabled for coloured text.
01:18:29 <fizzie> I'd like it to use the same (bitmap) font I use everywhere else, anyway, I just haven't figured out how to refer to it.
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02:44:19 <esolangs> [[TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86249&oldid=38969 * PixelatedStarfish * (+54) /* External resources */
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04:50:03 <zzo38> I have had problems getting some programs to use bitmap fonts in at least some cases, especially ones based on GTK. However, btmap fonts will sometimes work for some things in the program, but not others. (There are other things I also dislike about GTK; I think there are many problems with it.)
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06:47:33 <zzo38> Do you have PostScript font and encoding vector for PC character set?
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07:44:45 <esolangs> [[Annihilator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86250&oldid=74032 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+0) /* I/O extension */ this thus
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07:54:26 <riv> I use vs code
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08:28:59 <esolangs> [[User:OrichalcumCosmonaut]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86251 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+292) Create user page (although mediawiki doesnt seem to like gemini:// links -_-)
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09:44:46 <fizzie> Yes, it's an Electron app, meaning using the Chromium renderer to wrap a webby thing. Still been giving it a chance recently. Hasn't felt noticeably laggy. From some poking around, sounds like not liking bitmap fonts could be a Chromium limitation maybe. The font's known by fontconfig, which is a good start, but it is also in the BDF format; not sure if it'd work any better if converted to
09:44:48 <fizzie> something more modern.
09:49:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86252&oldid=84687 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+1298) /* Add gemini:// to the recognised URI schemes */ new section
10:03:35 <esolangs> [[User:OrichalcumCosmonaut]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86253&oldid=86251 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+0) gemini Gemini
10:20:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86254&oldid=86252 * Fizzie * (+165) /* Add gemini:// to the recognised URI schemes */ Sure, why not.
10:45:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86255&oldid=86254 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+233) /* Add gemini:// to the recognised URI schemes */ saying thanks
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11:44:00 <esolangs> [[INF)xO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86256&oldid=86211 * AmNow * (-1) example fix
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13:22:16 <HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1240.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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16:17:21 <wib_jonas> fungot, how deterministic are your implementations of set operations with respect to side effects of the hashing or comparison functions of the contained data types?
16:17:21 <fungot> wib_jonas: i'll probably ask you; i'd pick up a book on how to do
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16:19:09 <fizzie> A book on how to ask wib_jonas things.
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16:23:54 <wib_jonas> yeah, that's hard. even my family hasn't mastered it.
16:27:21 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86257&oldid=86180 * Digital Hunter * (+1894) /* Example programs */ added a not-very-cheaty quine program
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17:04:35 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86258&oldid=86234 * KakkoiiChris * (+3512) Added syntax highlighting to the Hello World example program
17:40:43 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86259&oldid=86258 * KakkoiiChris * (+94) Filling out 'Values' subsection
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18:07:37 <b_jonas> ah good, we have #esolangs-blah now as the new version of freenode/#esoteric-blah
18:11:07 <b_jonas> you know about a floppy disk used as the save icon in software UIs, right. and you know how there are these antivirus softwares that use a shield icon to mean "you are protected". so I have two questions. 1. will those antivirus software now replace that icon with a facemask? and 2. what is the UI metaphor that is obsolete by the longest time? besides shields, arrows are another candidate.
18:13:59 <b_jonas> shields are also used as an icon for the toughness and loyalty stats on M:tG cards, but at least that's set in one of those mediaeval fantasy universes where guns haven't obsoleted human-powered weapons yet
18:21:51 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86260&oldid=78163 * Rdococ * (-492)
18:22:17 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86261&oldid=86260 * Rdococ * (+37)
18:26:42 <HackEso> #esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
18:29:26 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86262&oldid=86261 * Rdococ * (+281)
18:34:15 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86263&oldid=86262 * Rdococ * (+2) /* Computational class */
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18:40:02 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86264&oldid=86263 * Rdococ * (-20) /* Computational class */
18:50:27 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86265&oldid=86264 * Rdococ * (+44) /* Computational class */
18:55:42 <fizzie> Hmm, did I make HackEso join #esolangs-blah? I think I remember updating that when replicating the setup.
19:00:07 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86266&oldid=84490 * Rdococ * (-111) /* Related languages */ removed mindscrew
19:00:31 <riv> HackEso: Join #esolangs-blah
19:00:40 <riv> there, he is joined now
19:06:22 <Sgeo> The ZOWIE documentation has a typo
19:06:23 <Sgeo> "When a value is written into R7, the boolean negation of that value is written into R7: 1 if the value was 0, and 0 otherwise. Reading from R7 always offers the value 7.
19:06:39 <Sgeo> I think it should be "written into R8". R7 doesn't make sense there
19:06:43 <Sgeo> https://catseye.tc/view/ZOWIE/README.markdown
19:17:16 <keegan> b_jonas: shields are still used in combat
19:17:20 <keegan> haven't you ever been to a riot?
19:18:56 <keegan> here both the police and protesters/rioters use infantry formation and shield wall tactics
19:19:27 <keegan> also bows and arrows are not obsolete, they're commonly used for hunting still
19:21:33 <fizzie> I hear the city back home had hired some bowmen to cull the city-rabbit population a little.
19:21:55 <fizzie> Think they're feeling a little more comfortable with bows and arrows than firearms within the city limits.
19:32:17 <fizzie> On the topic of bitmap fonts, I replaced the BDF files with .otb files (that SFNT-based bitmap thing), and while they seem to work the same here in rxvt-unicode (and fontconfig-based tools in general), they're still not showing up in Chrome (and presumably VS Code). :/ Not sure how to debug that. Maybe I need to try Chromium and then poke around in the code.
19:35:58 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86267&oldid=86265 * Rdococ * (+14) /* Computational class */
19:36:07 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86268&oldid=86267 * Rdococ * (+0) /* Computational class */
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19:56:31 <b_jonas> keegan: they're not completely obsolete, sure\
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20:19:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Zeno]] to [[Zeno (Archived)]]
20:19:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Talk:Zeno]] to [[Talk:Zeno (Archived)]]
20:19:38 <esolangs> [[Zeno (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86273&oldid=86269 * Rdococ * (-19)
20:19:51 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86274&oldid=86063 * Rdococ * (-67)
20:32:26 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86275&oldid=86257 * Digital Hunter * (+65) /* Quine */ a shorter one
20:35:46 <fizzie> Aw. The font in question works in Firefox, but not in Chromium or Chrome. So I guess it's definitely the browser to blame then.
20:37:37 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86276&oldid=86275 * Digital Hunter * (-715) /* Quine */ that revision's comment was wrong, but I forgot what the procedure for dealing with that is. Instead, I just put an actual shorter one here
20:40:40 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86277&oldid=86276 * Digital Hunter * (+3) /* Finite loop */
20:42:07 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86278&oldid=86277 * Digital Hunter * (+0) /* Finite loop */
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21:27:58 <fizzie> Hmm. I think it might boil down to https://codereview.chromium.org/401303002 "Require that FC_SCALABLE is true in Fontconfig queries (matching Blink) --", but attempting to build a copy of Chromium to confirm that feels overwhelming. Especially since I don't really care whether it will work in a browser or not.
21:28:14 <fizzie> Maybe there's a fontconfig way of just forcing it to treat it as a scalable font.
21:31:38 <fizzie> Okay, there is (at least, it makes `fc-match -v` report it as "scalable: True(w)"), but it's not sufficient to make it start to actually work.
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21:36:35 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86279&oldid=86278 * Digital Hunter * (+4) /* Quine */
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22:40:47 <nakilon> I wonder how long does it take chromium to compile today
22:40:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Xorol * New user account
22:41:25 <nakilon> was 2,5h on a server in 2013, on previous engine
22:42:05 <nakilon> btw, guys, people from all different countries
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22:47:37 <nakilon> the USSR was a home for many many different nations, that were very different in culture, religion, level of education, etc.; some of difficult nations are living around Caucasus Mountains; to survive in WW2 Stalin was applying different preventive measures of migration
22:49:45 <nakilon> such as sending the criminals to the east, far from the border where the war is going to come to; also he decided to send out some whole nations because they mostly were pretty much unreliable and could even become a nazi collaborationsists
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22:52:38 <nakilon> so among the nations that were massively forcefully migrated there were Chechens -- those people live without law, they just stab you in the back if they don't like you, they lived in those mountains, and when the war was over and they had to come back...
22:55:52 <nakilon> someone fucked up this process and decades after that several small nations there started arguing about the territory, and they are used to solve the problems only via a fight; that's how the Chechen war started when Russia decided to intervent 'since it was it's subrepublic or something like that
22:56:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86280&oldid=86248 * Xorol * (+111)
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23:03:50 <nakilon> Chechens started making terroristic acts in Russia, blowing up buildings, metro, cinema, etc.; they wear a specific kind of beard to mak people know that "we are Chechens, we are above the law", they don't attend the university because teaching and working hard is against their culture, etc.
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23:06:16 <nakilon> I tell this because I know you don't know it, and when people hear about Chechen problem in Russia they don't really understand what it is and make some wrong parallels with other countries and their problems
23:12:35 <nakilon> the thing is that the Chechen war is over, the terroristic organizations are wiped out by Putin but Moscow and some other big cities are full of Chechens and they all do criminal; they are about 10% of population on streets, and they are above the law
23:14:51 <nakilon> since they don't study and absolutely can't behave they only earn money from crime and sometimes working at stores; and for example, today one such Chechen store worker attacked me, tried to push me out of store and beat me up
23:16:06 <nakilon> the thing is that if that was a Russian guy people would call the police and he would pay for that, but Chechens are allowed to do that; no one called police and even if police comes, they just get bribed and that's it
23:16:23 <oerjan> nakilon: i know there were chechen terrorists, i remember beslan which of course shocked me. however, as a westerner i am suspicious how much you know from personal knowledge and how much you believe because you believe putin propaganda. i don't believe _putin_ at all, of course. i figure any politician who suppresses opposotion or journalism should be considered guilty of all crimes by default.
23:16:46 <nakilon> > how much you know from personal knowledge
23:16:53 <nakilon> I lieve among these people
23:18:02 <nakilon> I don't care how much bullshit you've being fed by your mass media
23:18:33 <nakilon> I just wanted to ask if there are similar national minorities in other countries that are above the law
23:19:29 <oerjan> i actually started reading a lot less news about early 2016 (which in retrospect seems the perfect time to have done so)
23:20:01 <nakilon> try reading sources instead of news
23:20:23 <nakilon> and not emigrants or neonazis
23:22:21 <oerjan> i don't think there are many chechens in norway, which may be fortunate
23:22:43 <oerjan> and i don't recall any minority that's above the law here.
23:23:49 <oerjan> ...i just realize my first message did exactly what i accused you of possibly doing. sorry.
23:24:10 <oerjan> that's how reality bubbles work, i guess.
23:24:31 <nakilon> I'm used to russophobia in all its forms
23:24:45 <nakilon> one of them is demonizing the %current_presider/leader%
23:25:47 <oerjan> i admit that is one of my prejudices against russians, you're _horrible_ at getting good leaders.
23:25:58 <esolangs> [[Versert]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86281&oldid=19010 * Back * (+1649)
23:26:20 <oerjan> of course there are many other countries who are competing at that
23:28:40 <oerjan> i used to think about a decade ago that the one thing china seemed to be getting right, was having strict time limits for leaders. and then Xi got them repealed...
23:28:55 <nakilon> I want call leaders bad who converted the (feodal?) Imperia to an absolutely organized multinational country being leader in many technologies in just 30 years
23:29:27 <nakilon> and no matter how much you read about "gulag" and stuff in fact I tell you that none of my family members were opressed, maybe because they just wre not criminals
23:29:36 <oerjan> (well the one pure political thing. they did get economy right too)
23:30:52 <nakilon> there are too many lies such as people were starving because of Stalin while in fact it was just bad harvest and it can happen anywhere
23:31:23 <esolangs> [[Tock]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86282 * Silver * (+4041) page created
23:32:01 <nakilon> there is just a ton of fakes about china today too on reddit; people are literally made the website that calls itself a "homepage of internet" a place to spread hate towards two nations
23:32:31 <nakilon> https://imgur.com/a/i6FlRRa
23:32:37 * oerjan regrets getting into this conversation.
23:33:25 <nakilon> yeah my question wasn't about politics, it was just a historical explanation of a local culture problem
23:33:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86283&oldid=86213 * Silver * (+11) added link to Tock
23:33:59 <esolangs> [[User:Silver]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86284&oldid=71258 * Silver * (+11) added link to Tock
23:34:25 <oerjan> nakilon: that imgur is you trolling and someone taking the bait trolling back. i don't see how that proves anything.
23:34:58 <nakilon> I like Norway btw, it's beautiful from what I see on youtube
23:35:09 <oerjan> you were basically _asking_ for someone to do that.
23:36:01 <nakilon> and I've read about Norway immigration on wikiepdia -- it shows that numbers are growing fast while there are only like 4 millions of Norwegians, I'm very afraid about your country
23:36:56 <nakilon> oerjan that screenshot shows the hate comment and the reddit administration verdict that it isn't
23:37:34 <oerjan> oh i see. i should keep reading.
23:38:32 <oerjan> well, i agree with the administration verdict because of the thing i said before reading it.
23:39:24 <oerjan> it was a joke in response to you basically claiming someone would want to do that.
23:40:27 <esolangs> [[Versert]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86285&oldid=86281 * Back * (+1818)
23:44:06 <esolangs> [[Versert]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86286&oldid=86285 * Back * (+458)
23:52:42 <oerjan> nakilon: anyway in a higher perspective i think basically all humans are stuck believing things some things that are deeply wrong, whether they are norwegians, chechens, russians, chinese or americans (of either the trumpist or woke extreme, or in between), and that this causes them to misinterpret others who have _different_ sets of wrong beliefs. of course i cannot be sure what _my_ fundamentally
23:52:48 <oerjan> wrong beliefs are, but logically they must exist.
23:53:35 <oerjan> and also logically, i shouldn't necessarily trust others on what they are :P
23:53:45 <nakilon> I heard there is a trick how to know if some stuff is worth buying
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23:55:08 <nakilon> instead of reading the article written for money you read what people write, by adding "is shit" or "sucks", like google "iphone sucks" to find if there is somethuing untold about it
23:55:54 <nakilon> in case of articles about countries you don't live in just take a look what can be lied in the articles about them
23:56:48 <nakilon> once you find a hundreds of debunking you should understand "this media lies" and that's it"
23:57:12 <nakilon> if there are a hundred of lieing medias then "someone pays for it", etc.
23:58:52 <oerjan> i use the opposite trick of never buying anything hth
23:59:30 <nakilon> or just ask yourself why the hell Engilsh internet is producing tons of shit about Russian history 24/7 to feed it to their english readers, while no one in Russia produces shit about American history -- there is no point in it unless it's just your ultimate goal -- to grow a hate
00:00:29 <nakilon> the whole topic of hate is just inappropriate in Russian mass media
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00:03:44 <nakilon> for eaxmple, I read the russophobia all over the reddit every day and sometimes in irc, but I can't remember any thread of hate about US in Russian most popular IT website for example -- it just makes no sense, we aren't interested in hate and don't spread it
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00:05:38 <nakilon> the was one stand up comic yet from soviet time, he died few years ago who was joking on americans, building his career on a funny storry teller about how "they are stupid and we are smart" -- just one single man on media and he already died
00:06:56 <imode> pretty sure the russophobia is due to the election stuff and the troll farms.
00:07:29 <imode> though that can enhance the already racist tendencies of individuals.
00:08:57 <nakilon> was funny to see those Biden votes graphs though
00:09:21 <nakilon> btw, Norway and... imode where are you from?
00:09:47 * oerjan would be surprised if imode isn't american
00:10:19 <nakilon> are your public service businesses have to have a special book where clients can write down all they think about the service and that book is regularly cheked by the government services?
00:10:21 <imode> hungarian in spirit, american in birth.
00:10:44 <imode> or I guess maybe nordic in spirit, according to how my buddies in denmark describe my views. :P
00:10:50 <nakilon> this thing https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9
00:11:07 <imode> we have a couple of things like that.
00:11:14 <nakilon> several Americans on reddit said there is no such thing in US
00:11:40 <nakilon> and I don't see an English page on Wikipedia
00:11:40 <imode> the better business bureau.
00:12:29 <imode> I wouldn't put my faith in the russian government. I'm struggling to recover my lack of faith in the US government.
00:12:54 <imode> so a complaint book is a double edged sword.
00:13:15 <nakilon> the interesting fact is that it appeared thanks to Stalin -- his politics were about giving the citizens a right to tell about problems out loud, that was among the things why people (not those who were sent to gulag for being criminals) loved him and what he built
00:14:14 <imode> I'm sure he was a great guy apart from the millions he killed.
00:14:50 <nakilon> this book works -- you come to a store, they do some service badly, you write it to a book and within weeks you get a response on the next page of the book and the business gets fined
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00:15:13 <imode> yeah, because customers can always be trusted.
00:15:34 <imode> totally want the potential to be fined to be in the hands of customers.
00:15:51 <imode> I'm sure the government which now has a de-facto dictator checks its facts all the time.
00:16:20 <nakilon> if you write a bullshit, they respond "quit your bullshit"
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00:17:29 <nakilon> you can copypaste hate propaganda any number of times you want -- it won't make it truth
00:17:45 <imode> it certainly wasn't copypasting.
00:17:48 <nakilon> because you have nothing to prove the bullshit with
00:18:07 <imode> calling anything that you disagree with propaganda is an interesting tactic.
00:18:29 <nakilon> this is now a blatant lie about me
00:18:43 <nakilon> because there was no "calling anything that you disagree with propaganda" by me
00:18:55 <imode> I actually have a question, are you russian?
00:19:11 <imode> this makes a lot of sense.
00:19:22 <imode> just your demeanor.
00:19:45 <nakilon> so now you are judging me by nationality, nice
00:20:16 <imode> nice jump. was really just claiming that you'd defend your national pride, as anybody would, but you do you dude.
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00:22:02 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86287&oldid=85930 * Makonede * (+47)
00:23:54 <nakilon> I am Russian, I am not nazi or racist, I was born in the most multinational country in the world and the more I speak to foreigners the more I see how they operate with only rumours, and are absolutely unable to differentiate the fact from propaganda, I'm tired of it
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00:24:12 <oerjan> ok now that you know you're russian and american and that this perfectly explains why you cannot get along, can you please never talk to each other again twh and i'm sorry for participating.
00:24:34 <esolangs> [[Py256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86288&oldid=86287 * Makonede * (+30)
00:25:01 <oerjan> (that's irony btw there are other russians and americans in this channel who get along just fine)
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00:25:23 <imode> perhaps we should label things like this as off-topic.
00:25:41 <nakilon> I get along just fine with americans, unless they are some imperialists and russophobes
00:25:41 <imode> to prevent 1. flooding the channel and 2. blocking further discourse.
00:25:42 <oerjan> perhaps. int-e, fizzie?
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00:26:04 <imode> though I will say that uh, I wasn't the one that started talking about it.
00:26:38 <oerjan> imode: that's true, but my "uh oh" when you started talking was because i pretty confidentally saw what was coming
00:26:57 <imode> just try to deal with the facts at hand, man.
00:27:05 <oerjan> you're a bit like nemeses
00:27:08 <nakilon> and I know there are some people here with nicknames I don't remember well who just love to personally attack and lie on me exactly how I was lied just a page above
00:27:21 <imode> if I have a nemesis it's probably bezos.
00:28:23 <imode> nakilon: here's the thing, and I'm speaking to you in a genuine manner, despite the lack of intonation or intent in text: do not develop a victim complex.
00:28:39 <imode> it's frankly annoying and seeing as this is "the internet", your reputation is not at stake.
00:28:51 <imode> carry yourself as if nobody else matters.
00:29:19 <imode> you'll feel a lot happier and won't have to call people out or say you're being attacked.
00:29:42 <nakilon> I just try to make things visible that others are hidhing about themselves
00:30:04 <imode> this is either a cultural disconnect or malice and I'm looking to believe it's the former.
00:30:20 <imode> people don't need things "brought out of them", and you're too quick to jump the gun on people.
00:30:42 <imode> it's perceived as attacks, and you'll get hostility.
00:31:44 <nakilon> you lied about be and then instead of keeping the dialog constructive started saying that all I say is just biased just because I'm Russian
00:32:10 <imode> see, I see 'lie' pop up a lot. a lie is applicable only when you know the truth but choose to conceal it.
00:32:17 <int-e> So... two things. Nakilon should stop bringing up contested political topics. #esolangs is not the right place for this. imode, maybe ignore nakilon instead of goading them on. Yes, nakilon exhibits strong trollish tendencies, but they're tolerable if noone bites.
00:32:25 <imode> as in, "you are willingly lying".
00:32:36 <imode> pretty sure I've never seen someone accidentally lie.
00:32:50 <imode> so when you think people are being uncharitable towards you, maybe perceive it as a misconception. not a lie.
00:33:14 <imode> because when you tell me "you're lying about me", that just makes me appear as if I'm a bad party, vs. someone you either disagree with or someone who doesn't understand your position fully.
00:33:40 <int-e> Now, can we stop this peacefully or do we need a proper timeout?
00:34:16 <imode> feel free to timeout, idgaf. I see this as a cultural misunderstanding rather than trolling.
00:34:17 <nakilon> and I didn't bring the politics, I didn't say that some country does something bad or omeone's leaders are bad or anything, it was brought in by others who just were triggered by some words on their trigger list
00:34:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o int-e.
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00:35:38 <int-e> timeout it is. (cf. (cf. https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-07-14.html#lwc))
00:35:51 <imode> oh yay we have a logging endpoint.
00:36:51 <imode> wow I didn't see that context. no comment.
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00:45:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CosmicMan08 * New user account
00:50:52 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86289 * Xorol * (+1301) Created the page
00:55:42 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86290&oldid=86289 * Xorol * (+439) Added some example programs
00:59:42 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86291&oldid=86290 * Xorol * (+9) Added caption text to the instruction table
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01:03:08 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86292&oldid=86291 * Xorol * (+96) Added a link to the interpreter
01:04:00 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86293&oldid=86292 * Xorol * (+1)
01:06:07 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86294&oldid=86293 * Xorol * (+4)
01:08:20 <nakilon> it was not me who brought it in
01:08:55 <nakilon> you linked the wrong log line
01:13:39 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86295&oldid=86283 * Xorol * (+14) Added a link to numbers
01:15:30 <esolangs> [[User:Xorol]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86296 * Xorol * (+25) Created page with "Hi! I created [[Numbers]]"
01:26:02 <zzo38> How do you think that FFI should be made working in PostScript?
01:26:19 <imode> are there existing examples of FFIs with postscript?
01:26:36 <imode> and I guess, is this postscript calling out to C or another language calling postscript.
01:28:21 <zzo38> Yes, I mean calling C codes from PostScript codes.
01:28:39 <zzo38> I don't know if there are any existing examples of FFIs with PostScript, though.
01:29:29 <zzo38> (There is a printobject command which writes a PostScript object to stdout which can be useful for some purposes, but that is for dealing with an external program, not a dynamic library within the same program.)
01:29:35 <imode> mm. kinda hard to say, you need a way to set up calling conventions..
01:35:11 <zzo38> Yes, although it could be needing a C code to wrap calls to libraries that are not meant for this purpose, to convert values, etc
01:43:25 <imode> yeah, that's difficult. I think most forths get around this by exposing I/O ports.
01:43:28 <imode> or something similar.
01:43:44 <imode> well, I know of _one_ forth that does that... not most, most just drop to assembly and do the hard work.
01:44:09 <imode> it comes down to "do you want your language to be able to speak C" or "do you want to wall your language off and try to plan for the common cases".
01:47:36 <zzo38> Since it isn't a compiled programming language, I would think it probably need not "speak C" directly; it could use a plugin interface. In addition to defining new operators and reading/writing PostScript memory directory, it may also be wanted for a plugin to install a printer driver too, in case you are doing graphics.
01:47:50 <zzo38> (Such a "printer driver" need not necessarily be for a printer; it might also be a screen or file.)
01:48:12 <imode> yeah, you'll need to hot plug stuff in and out of the interpreter and have the calling code support it.
01:49:25 <imode> that isn't actually a bad idea, though.
01:49:51 <imode> what's the difference between that and having the capability to "speak C" regularly. you can issue an interpreter call that says "load this dynamic library".
01:50:07 <imode> you'll just need some shim code for the dynamic library to make it speak your language.
01:50:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86297&oldid=86280 * CosmicMan08 * (+362) Introduced_yourself&action=edit
01:51:26 <zzo38> Yes, a operator to load a dynamic library is a good idea I think. (It would be disabled in safe mode of course, although libraries that have already been loaded before switching to safe mode can remain loaded.)
01:51:40 <esolangs> [[Wariolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86298 * CosmicMan08 * (+1609) Created page with "WarioLang is an esolang inspired by the AI system of Warioware D.I.Y, it is created by discord user CosmicMan08#1975. == INSTRUCTIONS == Set [Var] to [Data] ---- Sets a vari..."
01:51:53 <imode> you can build a shim generator as well if you know the types involved.
01:53:47 <esolangs> [[Wariolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86299&oldid=86298 * CosmicMan08 * (+9)
01:55:57 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose you can; I think there are programs to do such thing for some programming languages already, it can be added other one too
02:08:32 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86300&oldid=86294 * Xorol * (+8)
02:08:54 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86301&oldid=86300 * Xorol * (+0)
02:09:57 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86302&oldid=86259 * KakkoiiChris * (-12)
02:11:10 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86303&oldid=86229 * Xorol * (+92) Added an implementation in [[Numbers]]
02:11:51 <esolangs> [[Wariolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86304&oldid=86299 * CosmicMan08 * (+1)
02:12:10 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86305&oldid=86303 * Xorol * (-49) /* Numbers */
02:21:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:Graue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86306&oldid=59021 * Xorol * (+351)
02:21:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:Xorol]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86307 * Xorol * (+0) Created blank page
02:25:48 <zzo38> I had other ideas about improving PostScript too, such as a built-in #! command, a few new font types, a few new resource categories, alpha transparency, some things taken from Ghostscript and from NeWS, etc
02:29:51 <zzo38> I think Adobe said they don't want to make level 4 PostScript
02:43:45 <zzo38> Was it some years ago on the esoteric programming IRC that someone mentioned they saw someone abbreviated Thursday as the Greek Theta?
03:20:19 <esolangs> [[Excellerated Short-Term Memory Loss]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86308&oldid=85695 * PolySaken * (+16) /* Computational Class */
03:22:45 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86309&oldid=86302 * KakkoiiChris * (-52)
03:23:04 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86310&oldid=86301 * Xorol * (+32)
03:33:58 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86311&oldid=86310 * Xorol * (+262) Added an example for the digital root calculator
03:34:22 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86312&oldid=86311 * Xorol * (+1) /* =Digital root calculator */
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07:09:10 <riv> nativ lang has a vid on modern use of mayan glyphs
07:19:58 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86313&oldid=86247 * Dominicentek * (+496) Added more instructions
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10:00:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86314&oldid=86240 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+140) /* External Resources */
10:01:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86315&oldid=86314 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+0) /* External Resources */
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10:40:18 <wib_jonas> since what version did Windows preserve the case of the current drive, as opposed to the other components of filenames in the working directory?
10:40:35 <wib_jonas> Was that all the way back to 95 OSR2? I sort of doubt that
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11:27:56 <esolangs> [[INF)xO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86316&oldid=86256 * AmNow * (+391) added ver and indexing
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12:43:07 <esolangs> [[INF)xO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86317&oldid=86316 * AmNow * (-2)
12:54:41 <esolangs> [[INF)xO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86318&oldid=86317 * AmNow * (-17) spec update
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13:32:49 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86319&oldid=86313 * Dominicentek * (+23) Added interpreter
13:38:05 <esolangs> [[Numbers]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86320&oldid=86312 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+54) /* Digital root calculator */ Categories
13:41:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86321&oldid=86315 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+101) Summary) (Created by ~~~~
13:44:23 <esolangs> [[Boxes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86322&oldid=86319 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* Interpreter */ Cat
13:48:25 <esolangs> [[Wariolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86323&oldid=86304 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+162) Cats, fmt
13:51:14 <esolangs> [[User:AmNow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86324&oldid=86212 * AmNow * (-1)
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14:24:25 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86325&oldid=86144 * PixelatedStarfish * (-9) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
14:24:46 <esolangs> [[Something]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86326&oldid=86325 * PixelatedStarfish * (+9) /* Proof of Turing completeness */
14:35:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86327&oldid=86321 * AmNow * (+52) why
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14:52:11 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86328&oldid=86268 * Rdococ * (+82)
15:27:47 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86329&oldid=86328 * Rdococ * (-153) minor improvements
15:28:23 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86330&oldid=86329 * Rdococ * (+14) made lowercase
15:29:42 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86331&oldid=86330 * Rdococ * (+11) /* Computational class */
15:30:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Flower]] to [[Flower (Archived)]]
15:33:32 <esolangs> [[Flower (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86334&oldid=86332 * Rdococ * (-173)
15:34:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Algebra]] to [[Algebra (Archived)]]
15:34:11 <esolangs> [[Algebra (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86337&oldid=86335 * Rdococ * (-19)
15:44:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86338&oldid=86327 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+64) !
15:45:23 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86339&oldid=86338 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) !
15:45:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86340&oldid=86339 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-26) .
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19:05:23 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86341&oldid=86331 * Rdococ * (-56) /* Differences from brainfuck */
19:05:58 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86342&oldid=86341 * Rdococ * (-10) /* Computational class */
19:08:06 <riv> whats new?
19:20:47 <zzo38> New in what, specifically? (If you are looking for IRC logs or esolang wiki, then you can easily find that)
19:28:04 <riv> just anything cool that was learned
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19:46:23 <esolangs> [[Rayuela]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86343&oldid=83957 * Dreamvoyager * (-1) /* Print all even numbers up to 10^k-1. */
19:54:48 <zzo38> I made a new version of the PSTOKEN extension for SQLite, which is used for making PostScript tokens output from SQL queries.
20:00:14 <riv> https://sqlite.org/forum/info/b1bd78c5e5c8434e I found this when searching for PSTOKEN
20:01:04 <riv> interesting
20:01:09 <riv> PSTOKEN has { and }
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20:02:53 <zzo38> Yes, it uses {} to make the entire array as a single token.
20:06:23 <zzo38> Also, I have written a JSON parser in PostScript too, although generating PostScript format is more useful, to avoid having to parse JSON or whatever. As the comment there says, it will be useful for making pie charts and whatever other graphics you might want.
20:06:50 <zzo38> That link is the old version though.
20:07:02 <zzo38> The new version is: https://sqlite.org/forum/forumpost/0e2bc16832
20:07:59 <riv> cool idea!
20:12:37 <zzo38> Do you use SQL and/or PostScript at all?
20:13:17 <riv> not at the moment but i have in the past
20:14:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TJC games * New user account
20:15:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86344&oldid=86297 * TJC games * (+185) /* Introductions */
20:17:00 <esolangs> [[User:TJC games]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86345 * TJC games * (+73) Created page with "Hello! I am TJC games. I play games, do stuff and beep beep like a sheep."
20:19:56 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86346 * TJC games * (+185) Created page with "Gdelang is an esolang created by TJC games. It's based off of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del_numbering godel numbering], with slight connections to Brainfuck|Br..."
20:23:50 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86347&oldid=43284 * Rdococ * (-633)
20:29:43 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86348&oldid=86346 * TJC games * (+742)
20:29:57 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86349&oldid=86348 * TJC games * (-20) /* Interpretations */
20:32:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86350&oldid=86295 * TJC games * (+16) Godelang
20:40:49 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86351&oldid=86279 * Digital Hunter * (-2) /* Quine */ a shorter one
20:53:53 <int-e> . o O ( let x = corn in unix )
20:55:08 <fizzie> Uniikki unikorni olikin korni koni.
21:20:29 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeSng_Us9dg I like this youtube series
21:20:50 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/user/NativLang/videos and recently this
21:25:10 <nakilon> I realised that the way people are taught about the Earth rotating around Sun is pretty much wrong and useless, and doesn't help to understand how the sun moves over the sky
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21:25:59 <nakilon> I also checked several pages of google and yandex image search results and found nothing close to what I would like people to see to learn it, so I drew it myself
21:27:01 <riv> I learned about analemma recently
21:29:06 <nakilon> people are not taught that while South and North are points on the horizon the East and West are not, and people realise it only after they spent years of their lives, preferably living in the same place to observe the cycle
21:29:36 <riv> north is a point on the horizon?
21:29:50 <nakilon> ; also people are told that the Earth axis has an angle of 23.5 degrees but how to use this knowledge? where is the polar day and night? why they exist? it's not really explained
21:30:42 <nakilon> riv the point that you can get my drawing a line down from the star that is not rotating during the night
21:31:11 <riv> I did a OU course on astronomy
21:31:18 <riv> it was relaly good
21:31:45 <nakilon> we had 1 year of astronomy in school, but at least in my school, the teacher sucked
21:32:33 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86352&oldid=86351 * Digital Hunter * (+1403) /* ROT13 cipher */ a slightly more legit one
21:32:50 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86353&oldid=86352 * Digital Hunter * (+1) /* ROT13 cipher */
21:33:20 <riv> we have the equatorial coordinate system
21:33:36 <nakilon> the key to understanding is that you should not imagine the Earth rotating around the Sun, because it has no practical use and it's hard to derive the rest of the things unless you had a course of descriptive geometry that is taught only to engineers basically
21:33:58 <riv> the math of this stuff is highly involved
21:34:09 <riv> the earth is basically a massive gyroscope
21:34:14 <nakilon> my idea is to imagine that the Sun is running in spiral over the sphere
21:34:24 <riv> so it not only orbits and spins but precesses
21:34:25 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/Eec618c.png
21:35:07 <riv> I think that this was originally noted by Newton
21:35:43 <nakilon> it's trivial and important to know that the earth is kind of rotating around the sun, not the opposite but it's only practical when you launch the satellites and it's not the all the truth anyway, only an approximation, but the problem is that this imagining is not useful on the earth
21:36:07 <riv> it's kind of a pointless distinction
21:36:18 <riv> you have two bodies in space with gravity influencing each other
21:36:22 <riv> the sun is much more massive, so it moves less
21:36:29 <riv> but it is not "fixed"
21:36:45 <riv> if you want to set up a coordinate system, you can use either the earth or the sun as an origin
21:36:56 <riv> not something to behead people over
21:37:23 <riv> or whatever happened back then
21:37:33 <nakilon> the thing is how the hell kid is supposed to understand what path the sun is running over the sky when you say it's a ball rotating around another ball that with an angle
21:38:34 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma#/media/File:Analemma_fishburn.tif
21:38:37 <riv> check out this analemma image
21:38:52 <riv> i think that is super cool, but also could be used to help explain it
21:40:22 <nakilon> oh and btw, the sun path is a key to understanding to how the sun clocks work
21:40:38 <nakilon> ask random person how to make it -- they'll have no clue
21:40:53 <riv> > Analemmas (as they are known today) have been used in conjunction with sundials since the 18th century to convert between apparent and mean solar time
21:40:55 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:52: error: parse error on input ‘in’
21:41:14 <riv> im not sure what this means, but it sounds relevant
21:41:36 <riv> "This can be interpreted as how "fast" or "slow" the Sun (or an analemmatic sundial) is compared to clock time."
21:42:21 <nakilon> understanding that sun is goins in spirals over the sphere and assuming it's shifting the cycles in Sin function way it becomes trivial to calculate the day length
21:42:40 <riv> that's a good intuition to have
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21:43:01 <riv> i read more details about leap seconds
21:43:21 <riv> so far, they have only every added seconds - never removed them
21:43:25 <riv> but they would if needed
21:43:31 <riv> and they can not predict leap seconds
21:43:50 <riv> they just measure when they are required
21:44:05 <riv> some of the the things that cause the time drift are not known
21:44:20 <riv> and othres are just too chaotic to predict, can only be measured
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21:48:14 <nakilon> riv https://www.reddit.com/r/ExposurePorn/comments/106czv/sunrise_analemma_17_individual_images_taken_at/
21:48:27 <nakilon> this subredit has such images sometimes
21:57:22 <zzo38> I know some things about astronomy. I had once plotted the analemma using Astrolog (using its capability to avoid clearing the screen between frames)
21:59:40 <riv> ah that's cool!
22:00:04 <riv> I used stellarium
22:00:25 <riv> https://www.astrolog.org/astrolog.htm wow
22:02:10 <sknebel> "created using Microsoft FrontPage, page last updated April 11, 2021." :D
22:03:37 <fizzie> Ooh, a counter and all.
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22:05:07 <kee> Does anyone remember what that tiny x86-specific language was called?
22:05:57 <kee> All the instructions are ASCII letters, and the interpeter just jumps into overlapping x86 instructions.
22:06:19 <nakilon> when I was a child I remember counting hundreds of thousands of stars in the most clear nights; recently I found a local astronomer with youtube channel and on stream I asked him if I'll ever be able to see this amount again like back then, or is sky polluted already with light, satellites, and my eyesight is old
22:06:58 <riv> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/abc/paper.pdf kee?
22:07:16 <riv> nakilon, yeah... :(
22:07:28 <nakilon> and he said "ahaha, wtf, you could not see it, it's 6000 stars" -- you know why? just because he has read it in our 1980s astronomy school book and didn't really try to count on his own
22:07:28 <riv> i always want to go to a remote place to see the stars well, I saw the milky way once, it wa good
22:07:45 <nakilon> that was a bit... disappointing
22:08:48 <nakilon> meanwhile wikipedia says, I just checked: "Depending on local sky cloud cover, pollution, humidity, and light pollution levels, the stars visible to the unaided naked eye appear as hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands...."
22:09:17 <nakilon> so idk why he just quotes the old book
22:09:51 <nakilon> oh I didn't see milky way for years
22:10:27 <kee> riv: It's not ABC. I'm thinking of an interpreter tens of bytes long, not a C compiler.
22:11:46 <riv> sounds interesting
22:12:27 <kee> Yeah. But because it's less than 100 bytes, I can't search for it.
22:19:37 <fizzie> The MiniMAX interpreter is that small, but it doesn't otherwise resemble what you said too much. https://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX
22:23:54 <fizzie> Though clicking a few links forward from there, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Golf lists a few of the shortest implementations, and both MinISCule and Barely sound to be a bit in that direction.
22:24:23 <b_jonas> you certainly can see a lot of stars, but you have to go to somewhere that's far from cities for it, and then look at night when the weather is suitable. I don't like going to places that are far from cities, so I'd rather leave that sort of thing to other people and automated telescopes.
22:25:07 <b_jonas> Here if I go to one of the darker places within the city, I can see tens of stars on a clear night.
22:25:22 <kee> fizzie: I was thinking of Barely, I think. Thanks.
22:27:53 <fizzie> We went out of the city a while ago, and I was hoping to see some stars, but since it was the middle of summer as well, it never really got *that* dark. It's not as bad as back home (or further up north), but even here at summertime it never dips below astronomical twilight to true night.
22:31:30 <fizzie> Better than in London, though. Here's how it looked like to the phone: https://zem.fi/tmp/stars.jpg
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22:52:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: that's a lot of stars
22:53:41 <fizzie> The phone exaggerates a little, I think. It takes 4 minutes to collect all those stars, for example.
22:56:52 <b_jonas> 4 minutes? and you have a rotating tripod thingy for that?
22:56:55 <fizzie> I remember a much more impressive sky from back when I was pretty young, and got off a bus to visit a friend in the countryside in the middle of the winter, but I can't be sure if it *was* actually substantially better, or if it's just one of these things where your mind makes stuff up.
22:57:01 <fizzie> No, it's done in software.
22:57:20 <fizzie> AIUI, it takes repeated 15-second exposures and then merges them together to account for the motion.
22:57:35 <b_jonas> well it could impress you more even if it's the same visuals
22:57:51 <fizzie> https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/11/astrophotography-with-night-sight-on.html has a bit of the detail.
22:59:43 <b_jonas> I don't generally bother with trying to photograph a starry sky, because that's one of those things that other people can and will photograph better, and photos of it are available on the internet easily, unlike some other targets that I photograph where I can't just get photographs made by others for various reasons
22:59:55 <fizzie> They had just added an extra feature where it also makes a timelapse video clip of the whole thing (so you get the motion of the stars visible too), but AFAICT you can't extend it to more than the 4 minutes, so it's just a one-second clip, which is a bit of a shame.
23:00:11 <b_jonas> as in, the starry sky is basically the same viewed from anywhere, so why bother?
23:00:28 <fizzie> Yeah, this was mostly an excuse to use the feature, after having read about it.
23:00:34 <b_jonas> (yes, I know some parts are only visible from the south, but still)
23:01:04 <fizzie> Also, you can do a photo that is part something you don't see everywhere else, and part the starry sky.
23:01:48 <b_jonas> I should try to do timelapses of clouds some day though
23:01:59 <b_jonas> though that's also something you can download anywhere
23:02:25 <kee> fizzie: You have to do compositing (a bit more sophisticated than HDR) to get that.
23:02:47 <fizzie> No, you don't, it's all part of the astrophotography feature.
23:03:00 <fizzie> I mean, someone has to, I guess.
23:03:08 <kee> Wow, that's neat.
23:03:13 <fizzie> For example, here's the building we stayed at: https://zem.fi/tmp/stars2.jpg
23:03:54 <b_jonas> not bad. in what country is that? is it Finland?
23:04:35 <fizzie> Here's one with a bit more of the house: https://zem.fi/tmp/stars3.jpg
23:04:44 <fizzie> Nah, it was a place here in the UK.
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07:35:34 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86359&oldid=86358 * TJC games * (-114) /* Interpretation */
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10:53:33 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86360&oldid=86127 * Tomhe * (+1029) /* The Assembly Language */ add namespaces syntax
11:11:01 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86361&oldid=86360 * Tomhe * (+37) /* Namespaces */ example updated
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11:43:54 <wib_jonas> today I learned that the pulse encoding for telephone numbers on rotary telephones had three (or maybe four or two) incompatible versions, so if you tried to use a phone in the wrong country or region, the digits printed on it would be wrong, and you'd have to permute your phone number before dialing\
11:45:05 <wib_jonas> maybe this is what motivated introducing the DTMF encoding, so that they have one standard instead of three?
11:45:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Eidotter * New user account
11:45:40 <wib_jonas> and yes, I know that never works as in https://xkcd.com/927/
11:49:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86362&oldid=86344 * Eidotter * (+187) /* Introductions */
13:08:25 <wib_jonas> Is there an attempt to make a dialect of C++ where you can optionally qualify pointers and variables to have rust ownership/reference semantics, in a way that's backwards compatible to traditional C++ compilers in that there's a header that lets you compile your code on those by macroing away those qualifiers, whereas a compiler that supports these
13:08:25 <wib_jonas> features can do the full type and lifetime checking?
13:08:51 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86363&oldid=86359 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) Unpipe
13:10:05 <wib_jonas> to be clear, this would be backwards compatible with existing C++ code, because pointers or variables that aren't qualified with the new keyword(s) would have C++'s looser semantics, not rust ownership
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13:14:22 <wib_jonas> I think you'd need like two keywords, let's say `own` so `T *own foo` declares a rust-like mut reference to a T, `T *const own foo` declares a rust-like const reference to T, `struct U { own T foo; };` declares foo as a member that the structure owns, etc, a variant of own that lets you specify a lifetime in parenthesis, and a bunch of presumably
13:14:22 <wib_jonas> template types for essential abstractions of rust
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13:16:10 <wib_jonas> There could also be additional features that aren't compatible with existing C++ compilers of course, like rust enums
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13:30:16 <nakilon> prawnsalad confirmed what I was saying https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/4ca20da6c2295ddb06c1646791c61953 -- that all this crap was nothing else than echochamber made by tomaw to make pawns flame the channels, copypaste fakes and spread the hate with no reason
13:31:49 <nakilon> now I still wait for apologizing for multiple collective false accussations and defamation on me for just telling to stop
13:34:55 <Corbin> You and I have taken very different lessons from all of this. For example, I've paid attention to who seems to have gained @ hats on Freenode; more than a few acquaintances have gone mask-off and embraced a sudden rush of power, it seems.
13:42:51 <riv> wow there's people on freenode?
13:47:53 <wib_jonas> riv: obviously, since there are people who don't use IRC as frequently as I do, and when they log on after several month they don't know in advance about the drama and are surprised to find their irc client conencting to the broken pieces of freenode
13:48:08 <wib_jonas> presumably after that they'll quickly figure out which networks people have moved to
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14:06:04 <wib_jonas> I'll have my old years old birthday soon. I'll feel old after that.
14:07:10 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qD9XElTpCE
14:07:16 <riv> The Story of Shor's Algorithm, Straight From the Source | Peter Shor
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14:52:55 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86364&oldid=86363 * TJC games * (+165)
14:53:07 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86365&oldid=86364 * TJC games * (+1) /* Interpretation */
14:54:31 <arseniiv> <wib_jonas> I'll have my old years old birthday soon. I'll feel old after that. => hugs. I’ll have kinda old age in a couple of months too, though I think your age should be older so I shouldn’t be as sad
14:55:08 <wib_jonas> well I thought exactly the same around my last few birthdays, and will probably think the same for every birthday the next few decades
14:56:54 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86366&oldid=86365 * TJC games * (+10)
15:01:35 <nakilon> "One of my guiding principles, also, has been the scientist's motto 'Take nobody's word for it' (nullius in verba), a corollary of which is that if scientists as a whole denounce an idea this should not necessarily be taken as proof that the said idea is absurd: rather, one should examine carefully the alleged grounds for such opinions and judge
15:01:35 <nakilon> how well these stand up to detailed scrutiny." http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/ -- this was in ru wikipedia page with "missing reference" tag, added it, it's right on his Cambridge homepage
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15:22:04 <nakilon> in that Peter Shor's video the blue book behind looks like Spelunky Jetpack
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15:29:11 <nakilon> lol this is ironic https://i.imgur.com/Crfembw.png
15:29:44 <nakilon> he tells about error correction and there is sqrt(1) on the slide
15:30:13 <riv> correct THAT
15:32:45 <Riviera> why would that be a problem?
15:33:34 <Riviera> riv: good, albeit short, nickname! ;D
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16:27:56 <arseniiv> sqrt(1) is multivalued. Is it 1? Is it −1? Is it a hyperbolic unit j? Or −j? And when we have two such units j, k which anticommute, we have an explosion of the form (j cos t + k sin t), as squared that gives 1 + (j k + k j) cos t sin t = 1. I think we can deal with commuting j, k too but I forgot how
16:36:37 <arseniiv> sqrt(0) is of course even worse as you can multiply any nilpotent and it still remains nilpotent
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17:05:09 <b_jonas> arseniiv: that's irrelevant, in this case it's clearly a typo for sqrt(8)
17:19:24 <esolangs> [[Tack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86367 * AmNow * (+1387) Created page with "Tack is an esoteric programming language, with only one symbol: <code>!</code>. Tack was made by [[User: AmNow]]. == Commands == In Tack, the ! symbol marks to do the command..."
17:20:00 <esolangs> [[User:AmNow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86368&oldid=86324 * AmNow * (+16) Lang
17:20:50 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86369&oldid=86350 * AmNow * (+11) /* T */
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17:31:53 <esolangs> [[Tack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86370&oldid=86367 * AmNow * (+12)
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17:45:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Newtykins * New user account
17:48:36 <nakilon> arseniiv don't you usually write +/-sqrt(1) then?
17:48:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86371&oldid=86362 * Newtykins * (+336) /* Introductions */
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18:19:23 <esolangs> [[T a b]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86372 * Newtykins * (+765) Created page with "t a b is a minimal esoteric programming language for the 23rd century. It is pretty much the exact same thing as [[Small]], but even more arbitrary and harder to read! Made by..."
18:20:19 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86373&oldid=84764 * Newtykins * (+104) /* General languages */
18:26:45 <arseniiv> nakilon: impossible for things other than complex numbers, unfortunately, as there are usually too many
18:27:06 <arseniiv> for example there is a whole sphere of quaternions which square to −1
18:28:32 <arseniiv> having fun with https://codeparade.itch.io/webcam-fractals
18:29:10 <arseniiv> what a simple concept and this is pure IFS world, nothing fancy
18:30:25 <arseniiv> but with analog-ish dynamics as a natural consequence of its design. And the experience when you hold a webcam in your hands!
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18:55:36 <esolangs> [[Inse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86374 * BurningApparatus * (+1585) Created page with "'''Inse''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] where code can be stored in memory as strings and can be run later. Its syntax is similar to BASIC where a command is follow..."
19:01:38 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86375&oldid=86369 * BurningApparatus * (+11) /* I */
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19:26:06 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86376&oldid=86342 * Rdococ * (+0) /* Computational class */
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20:29:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Gdelang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86377 * TJC games * (+106) Created page with "im on my kindle lool ~~~~"
21:07:43 <esolangs> [[T a b]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86378&oldid=86372 * Newtykins * (+158)
21:08:11 <esolangs> [[T a b]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86379&oldid=86378 * Newtykins * (+33)
21:42:01 <riv> http://www.leapsecond.com/
21:42:05 <riv> check out this site about leap seconds
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22:25:30 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86380&oldid=86353 * Digital Hunter * (+812) /* ROT13 cipher */ a fully more legit one
22:32:43 <esolangs> [[T a b]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86381&oldid=86379 * Newtykins * (+88)
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23:52:50 <esolangs> [[T a b]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86382&oldid=86381 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+148) Cats and a Lowered Title
23:53:21 <esolangs> [[T a b]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86383&oldid=86382 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) Unusbale) -> (Unusable
23:55:56 <esolangs> [[Inse]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86384&oldid=86374 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) int)(1 + 1
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00:55:19 <fizzie> Failed hCaptcha three times in a row. I guess I'm not human. :/
02:13:15 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86385&oldid=86309 * KakkoiiChris * (+674) Finished Values and Arrays sections
03:17:14 <esolangs> [[Stupidc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86386&oldid=81533 * Not applicable * (+47)
03:20:45 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86387&oldid=86385 * KakkoiiChris * (+3054) /* Memory */ Finished 'Memory' subsection, complete with comprehensive examples
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04:03:58 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86388&oldid=86380 * Digital Hunter * (-11) /* ROT13 cipher */ "a shorter one"
04:04:49 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86389&oldid=86388 * Digital Hunter * (+1) /* ROT13 cipher */ oops, sorry
04:05:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: nah, there are some really bad captchas out there that you often fail even if you're a human. and ones that are flat out broken in some browsers.
04:07:16 <b_jonas> Google recaptcha used to fail in both of those ways at some point: on some sites it failed to work in debian 10 firefox, though this seems to have been fixed since, and it used to be close to impossible to solve with javascript disabled, though much easier with javascript enabled.
04:08:33 <b_jonas> Some of this may not count as failures from the perspective of Google's goals of course, but when I want to charge my mobile phone account with money and vodafone.hu chooses to use that captcha, then I don't care about that.
04:24:28 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86390&oldid=86389 * Digital Hunter * (+917) /* ROT13 cipher */ explained what's going on with my mess of a "compacted" program, as it is not very obvious how to follow it at first
04:30:32 <zzo38> I really dislike reCAPTCHA. Before, it was at least possible to solve the audio CAPTCHA (the one with pictures is impossible), but now it seems that doesn't work. I am not the only one; I have seen others who had problems with it too.
04:33:57 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86391&oldid=86390 * Digital Hunter * (+286) /* Truth-machines */ i'm tired and should probably not be doing this right now
04:34:33 <zzo38> I think that a ASCII-text-only "SASL CAPTCHA" could be made up, and then can be used with any protocols. If SASL is added into HTTP too then also HTTP
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05:04:45 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86392&oldid=86387 * KakkoiiChris * (+689) Started filling out the specifics of each statement type
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07:04:36 <riv> https://ludovicianul.github.io/2021/07/16/unicode_language_version/ wtf, this sucks
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09:40:21 <esolangs> [[RingCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86393&oldid=41771 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-14) /* Describing the Tengwar */ link to the image directly
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12:21:25 <esolangs> [[User:Lyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86394&oldid=85906 * Lyxal * (+14)
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12:26:36 <esolangs> [[Vyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86395&oldid=85912 * Lyxal * (+84) Added influences properly this time; also, the online interpreter uses https kekw
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13:14:37 <esolangs> [[Yaren]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86396&oldid=78805 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+8) /* Synopsis */ De facto
13:51:56 <riv> zzo38, have you tried powershell?
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14:40:07 <nakilon> there is something weird about the facepalm emoji IIRC
14:40:29 <nakilon> there was a male and female versions of it, but then in youtube you became able to only print female one
14:49:24 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/MDGsxcj.png it was something like if you wanted to print female one you had to type male one and then a Venus char, i.e. it was a multigraph; but then it stopped working
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16:06:03 <esolangs> [[ISEW2C]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86397 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+615) Created page with "{{stub}} ISEW2C (It Is Esolang With 2 Commands) - Esolang for imitating [[Turing machine]] By [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] that has 2 Commands! ==Tutorial== 3 [x] [y] [z] - if [x..."
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17:09:29 <zzo38> riv: I don't really like Unicode and mostly don't use it, and I don't use Unicode regular expressions, and only ASCII file names. Unfortunately some things require the use of Unicode, and requires extra work to avoid it
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19:23:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:Redstone]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86398 * VilgotanL * (+214) questioning turing completeness
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21:52:02 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86399 * Rdococ * (+3932) Created page with "'''Woodchuck''' is an esoteric programming language by [[User:Rdococ]] which operates on an undirected tree structure without values. All data must be encoded into the structu..."
21:54:20 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck/Implementation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86400 * Rdococ * (+2024) Created page with "This is a (naive) Woodchuck interpreter written in Lua, along with a function to translate brainfuck to Woodchuck through the method described in the main article. <pre> retu..."
21:55:59 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck/Implementation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86401&oldid=86400 * Rdococ * (+48)
21:56:30 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86402&oldid=86399 * Rdococ * (+19) added impl
21:57:42 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck/Implementation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86403&oldid=86401 * Rdococ * (+4) typo fix
22:00:19 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86404&oldid=86274 * Rdococ * (+69) added woodchuck
22:03:46 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86405&oldid=86402 * Rdococ * (+20) adjusted wording
22:04:37 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86406&oldid=86405 * Rdococ * (-1) /* Translation from BF */ wording
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02:30:09 <esolangs> [[Pith]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86407 * ZippyMagician * (+5935) Initial version of page
02:30:42 <esolangs> [[User:ZippyMagician]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86408&oldid=80681 * ZippyMagician * (+10) Add pith to made esolangs
02:31:46 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86409&oldid=86375 * ZippyMagician * (+11) Add pith
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02:40:53 <esolangs> [[Calligulan Assembly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86410 * ArthroStar11 * (+2371) created page and provided link to my interpreter
02:43:01 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86411&oldid=86409 * ArthroStar11 * (+26) added my language "Calligulan Assembly"
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02:45:13 <esolangs> [[User:ArthroStar11]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86412&oldid=86233 * ArthroStar11 * (+144)
02:54:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:Calligulan Assembly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86413 * ArthroStar11 * (+411) Created page with "== A question == Hey, I'm new to writing implementations so I have a question So my implementation instead of reading and converting the roman numerals line by line, it conve..."
02:59:55 <b_jonas> oh wow. I just got a reply that a bug report that I sent in 2011 was fixed.
03:01:14 <b_jonas> it might have been fixed years ago, mind you, they just closed the ticket now
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03:09:26 <zzo38> What bug was that?
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04:16:35 <b_jonas> https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=68804 zzo38
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04:35:31 <oerjan> b_jonas: perhaps the responder has a habit of looking at exactly 10 year old unsolved bug reports, the timing fits
04:36:00 <oerjan> oh wait, june not july
04:36:06 <oerjan> well pretty close anyway
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06:16:07 <zzo38> One of my ideas is to make a text-based pokemon battle simulator in C. What do you think would be considerations, comments, etc in your opinion? One thing that someone else mentioned is Spinda, but I already considered how to work that.
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07:01:04 <HackEso> 1/2:cow//A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees Celsius. \ asap//ASAP, in code golf, means as small as possible \ virgil//Virgil is a prayer at dawn, as well as an ancient Italian poet who led Dante to hell so they can ask the blind transgendered seer Anchises stupid politics questions concerning contemporary noble families. \ gey//I know nothing about Gey, sir. \ morse//-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. ..
07:01:10 <HackEso> 2/2:-.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. .. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
07:01:53 <HackEso> 1/2:1199) <oerjan> or to put it weirder, a continuation is the same as an expression zipper. \ 91) <alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English <ais523> alise: that's great filler <alise> ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... \ 576) <monqy> where is this going. why is this going. \ 390) <oklofok> god created the natural numbers, the rationals were don
07:01:56 <HackEso> 2/2:e by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself \ 982) <zzo38> My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell.
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08:45:28 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86414&oldid=86406 * Rdococ * (+40)
08:45:50 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86415&oldid=86414 * Rdococ * (+10)
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10:27:22 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86416&oldid=86404 * Rdococ * (-91)
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10:42:25 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86417&oldid=86416 * Rdococ * (+22)
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13:19:11 <nakilon> has anyone use something like this? https://www.chessprogramming.org/Zobrist_Hashing
13:28:42 <esolangs> [[Transposed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86418&oldid=74721 * ZippyMagician * (-18) Change computational class
14:06:49 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck/Implementation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86419&oldid=86403 * Rdococ * (+566)
14:34:54 <esolangs> [[User:Lyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86420&oldid=86394 * TwilightSparkle * (+131)
14:51:45 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck/Implementation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86421 * Rdococ * (+1582) Created page with "<small>[[swapfuck|Back to swapfuck]]</small> Here is a rough implementation of swapfuck in Lua. The "while zero" loop described in the main article has been included in this..."
14:52:45 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck/Implementation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86422&oldid=86421 * Rdococ * (+14) lowercase title
14:52:59 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86423&oldid=86376 * Rdococ * (+109) added impl
14:58:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Tautologos]] to [[Tautologos (Archived)]]
14:58:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Talk:Tautologos]] to [[Talk:Tautologos (Archived)]]
14:58:23 <esolangs> [[Tautologos (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86428&oldid=86424 * Rdococ * (-19)
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16:44:35 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86429&oldid=85878 * Nakilon * (-2) /* Factorial */ 2 chars smaller
17:01:53 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86430&oldid=86429 * Nakilon * (-12) /* Prime numbers generator */ shorter, DRYer
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17:19:06 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86431&oldid=86430 * Nakilon * (+1) /* Nth Fibonacci number */ sequence indexing was shifted by 1
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18:56:19 <esolangs> [[Ark]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86432 * Spargle * (+1700) Created page with "== Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. == {| class="wikitable" |+ Usage |- ! Character !! Function !! Status |- | : || Terminates the program. || Required |- | !..."
18:57:41 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86433&oldid=86411 * Spargle * (+10) /* A */
19:00:15 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86434&oldid=86433 * Rdococ * (+15) /* S */ swapfuck
19:01:07 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86435&oldid=86434 * Rdococ * (+16) /* W */ Woodchuck
19:02:05 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86436&oldid=86435 * Rdococ * (-11) /* H */ remove harp
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20:33:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Spargle * uploaded "[[File:Ark logo.png]]"
20:33:22 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86438&oldid=86432 * Spargle * (+29) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
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20:46:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Spargle * uploaded "[[File:Arkive logo.png]]"
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20:57:07 <esolangs> [[DotSF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86440&oldid=86176 * ArthroStar11 * (-9) clarified [ ]. DotSF doesn't support true block nesting.
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00:37:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:Redstone]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86441&oldid=86398 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+176) Reply to /* Is it really turing complete? */
00:38:52 <esolangs> [[Redstone]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86442&oldid=84312 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-29) Remove category) (Turing complete
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02:31:54 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86443&oldid=86361 * Tomhe * (+262) /* Macros */ - new < > syntax
02:40:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Tomhe * uploaded "[[File:Hello-world.fj.png]]"
02:41:52 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86445&oldid=86443 * Tomhe * (+24) /* Hello World */ - update new < > syntax, update hello.fj picture
03:55:45 <zzo38> How much sand is there in a hourglass with a duration of one hour? Is it enough to hide anything inside? (Although, I would expect that the hourglass will nto work very well if something is hidden inside)
04:31:37 <keegan> the volume of sand will depend on not only the duration but the size of the aperture it flows through
04:32:19 <keegan> i have a 5 minute hourglass tea timer and it has enough sand to hide a microSD card, probably
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05:57:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Everydayispain * New user account
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06:36:22 <riv> https://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/July2021.html they're doing number theory questions now
06:38:08 <riv> https://www.janestreet.com/puzzles/current-puzzle/ kind of like those pen and paper puzzles
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09:15:37 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86446&oldid=86150 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+1184) /* Implementations */ add Standard ML implementation
09:19:54 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86447&oldid=86446 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+0) /* Implementations */ alphabetical ordering (oops)
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10:00:30 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86448&oldid=86447 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+57) /* SQL */ decrement should set the accumulator to 0 when decrementing to 256 (NB: i dont know SQL, i just copied one of the lines; someone should check this)
10:16:48 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86449&oldid=86448 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-2) /* Standard ML */ unnecessary pair of parentheses
10:32:07 <nakilon> 09:38:07 <riv> https://www.janestreet.com/puzzles/current-puzzle/ kind of like those pen and paper puzzles
10:32:37 <nakilon> I do't get it, where are 6 and 1 from?
10:33:44 <fizzie> They are the "the areas of connected unshaded squares in the completed grid".
10:34:11 <fizzie> So the one white square at position (1, 1), and the six white squares near the bottom-right corner.
10:41:49 <nakilon> can the number be unshaded?
10:43:35 <fizzie> I think not. It says "these [numbered] cells are in the shaded region."
10:45:40 <fizzie> It reminds me a little of some of the Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection puzzles (specifically, Range and Rectangles), except fancier.
10:46:23 <nakilon> you mean that android app?
10:46:37 <Taneb> It's not just an android app, it's also avaialble on desktop and web
10:46:38 <nakilon> that is now calle "Puzzles" so it impossible to find in play market
10:47:09 <nakilon> it's cool guys, that you know it too, I'll show the one I liked the most
10:48:42 <nakilon> this one https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#5x5t7dh#503486241268460
10:49:57 <nakilon> I set some bigger ustom size of grid either am possible to solve within a hour long trip or it stays unsolved for months, like the current one on my phone
10:55:05 <Taneb> I think I played too much loopy. I used to be able to solve them without any problems almost all the time and I got bored of them
10:55:19 <Taneb> It's been a while though so I might have enough rust for it to be fun
10:57:47 <nakilon> I'll share the seed then when I find it ..P
11:03:26 <nakilon> I yet don't understand the symmetry; when I project from one corner to another it immediately gets wrong
11:04:34 <fizzie> I played quite a lot of Loopy too (on tube rides mostly), but I think only on the square grid, so all my reflexes are tuned for that.
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11:35:27 <Taneb> I completed that seed you linked, btw
11:46:22 <nakilon> Taneb nice, it was random one though
11:46:29 <nakilon> just what my browser generated ..D
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11:52:57 <nakilon> last digit of riv's puzzle solution is 3 if I'm right
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15:51:05 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86450&oldid=86415 * Rdococ * (-1874) changed syntax
15:51:10 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck/Implementation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86451&oldid=86419 * Rdococ * (-444) updated
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16:15:36 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86452&oldid=86450 * Rdococ * (-33) /* Translation from BF */
16:16:41 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86453&oldid=86452 * Rdococ * (+5)
16:17:41 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86454&oldid=86453 * Rdococ * (-12)
16:18:08 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86455&oldid=86454 * Rdococ * (+0) /* Implementation */
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18:04:33 <esolangs> [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86456&oldid=51796 * Rdococ * (-2271)
18:14:49 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86457&oldid=86456 * Rdococ * (+397) /* Sections */
18:16:59 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86458&oldid=86457 * Rdococ * (+66) /* Sections */
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18:20:34 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86459&oldid=86417 * Rdococ * (+88)
18:21:39 <esolangs> [[Mindshit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86460 * CosmicMan08 * (+975) Created page with "Mindshit is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative by CosmicMan08#1975 ([[User:CosmicMan08]]), it's unique in the fact that it has a character that switches the meaning of all other chara..."
18:25:17 <esolangs> [[Mindshit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86461&oldid=86460 * CosmicMan08 * (+55) Added some clarification
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20:37:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:SunnyMoon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86462&oldid=82582 * TwilightSparkle * (+151)
20:43:00 <esolangs> [[Pinocchio]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86463&oldid=84523 * Xxmarijnw * (+194) Add some implementations
20:43:21 <esolangs> [[Pinocchio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86464&oldid=86463 * Xxmarijnw * (+3) This is MediaWiki, not Markdown
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20:58:41 <esolangs> [[Brainloller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86465&oldid=70420 * CosmicMan08 * (+30) i found an archived version of one of the dead links
21:03:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MitchTOM1409 * New user account
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21:11:55 <esolangs> [[Pinocchio]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86466&oldid=86464 * Xxmarijnw * (+0)
21:12:05 <esolangs> [[Pinocchio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86467&oldid=86466 * Xxmarijnw * (+3)
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22:14:07 <riv> https://nickdrozd.github.io/2021/07/11/self-cleaning-turing-machine.html
22:18:59 <Corbin> Wow. Congratulations to all involved.
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23:02:48 <Corbin> Do folks work with any sort of realizability besides natural or real numbers? Sometimes these are "number" and "function" realizability.
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23:18:35 <Corbin> https://mathoverflow.net/questions/199162 tries to list off some alternative possible topologies, and those are definitely worth considering. (Strong whiffs of Stone duality here.)
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23:26:20 <oerjan> nakilon: loopy is my favorite too
23:27:24 <oerjan> Taneb: after i got too good at loopy, i occasionally try to solve it by _only_ adding or _only_ deleting edges (except when checking at the very end)
23:28:19 <fizzie> I did finish that one pasted Loopy, but it took a long time.
23:30:49 <oerjan> i use(d) to cycle through the tatham games (with a few exceptions) although i took a long break and only just started again
23:31:21 <fizzie> I pretty much only did them in the tube, and now I haven't been taking the tube for a year and a half or so.
23:32:30 <oerjan> last i did was bridges, which is way too easy even on the most difficult level, i ended up playing it so fast my fingers start aching
23:33:53 <oerjan> next up would be dominosa, which is pretty slow in the beginning as i need to search through the entire board a lot between finding a move
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23:36:34 <oerjan> but loopy is like a whole puzzle collection of its own, due to the varied geometries
23:40:07 <esolangs> [[Pinocchio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86468&oldid=86467 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* Implementations */) (This is Implemented
23:47:51 <Corbin> I failed to find foolproof algorithms for some Loopy variants. IIRC "Florets" was the one that always escaped me.
00:01:02 <oerjan> hm i think that's one of the trickier ones, but not unsolvable
00:02:22 <oerjan> as usual, there's some easy catches around the outer rim
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00:04:52 <oerjan> next i found some neighboring 4's, which tends to give a lot of information
00:13:29 <oerjan> argh i've made a mistake
00:13:39 <oerjan> (it was going too easily)
00:14:07 <oerjan> now time for the painful backtracking
00:14:25 <Melvar> I haven’t done these in quite a while …
00:15:13 <Melvar> Tried a Florets one, and apparently I still have muscle memory even though I don’t always remember why the patterns are valid.
00:16:54 <Melvar> There’s something with clusters of threes in the florets arrangement where in certain configurations a small inroad can solve most of the cluster.
00:18:26 <oerjan> oh found the error (maybe)
00:22:36 <oerjan> i didn't have any clusters of three 3's
00:24:13 <oerjan> i don't think my algorithm for florets is anything other than the general ones
00:24:42 <oerjan> although there are many general tricks.
00:26:22 <oerjan> sometimes there is parity, which can pass information a long way before it actually gives a definite edge/absense. although for this one, i think it was very local.
00:29:33 <oerjan> (local being something like: if you have a meeting of three edges where you know from counting the parity of two of them, then you know the last one concretely
00:31:08 <oerjan> the thing with the 4s i mentioned is in general "neighboring numbers each one which is exactly one less than the number of surrounding edges"
00:31:23 <Melvar> Yeah, that’s pretty basic.
00:31:41 <oerjan> although in floret it happens for 4s, in some others you can have e.g. one 2 and one 3
00:33:16 <oerjan> snub-square is one that does that
00:38:23 <oerjan> one rule i found which is nice and took me very long to notice: if you have >-< pattern where two neighboring edges of degree 3, and you know that there are exactly 2 edges in the loop in the upper line then there are exactly 2 in the lower as well
00:38:45 <oerjan> *two neighboring vertices have degree 3
00:40:35 <oerjan> also, 0 <-> 0 and 1 <-> 3
00:41:13 <oerjan> but the 2 case is the least obvious, because the reasoning differs for each pattern
00:41:46 <oerjan> 3 -> 1 but 1 can be either 1 or 3
00:43:01 <oerjan> i suppose that's also a form of parity, but with a little extra info sometimes
00:43:24 <oerjan> and in some geometries you can get long chains of deductions that way
00:43:50 <oerjan> honeycomb in particular
00:45:52 <oerjan> when you have a row of neighboring hexagons with numbers in them, and know the number in the loop among the three edges at one end
02:01:45 <zzo38> My idea to encode a canonical Huffman tree is: The first bit specifies whether the maximum code length is odd or even, and then the sequence of numbers, which can be abbreviated by omitting the bits that are already known by the time the previous bits have been read (sometimes all bits will be known, in which case that number can be encoded as zero bits).
02:02:59 <zzo38> The sequence of numbers is for each code length, the number of codes of that length, and then the values for the codes of that length, ordered starting with the lowest value of that code length, and then the highest, and then secondly lowest, and then secondly highest, etc.
02:04:35 <zzo38> What would you think of such a thing like this, please?
02:38:59 <int-e> Hmm, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/loopy.png is something I don't recall doing before: the inner white area mist connect to the outside somehow, but one of the routes (to the top) is blocked by known inner areas and a known line that bridges them... so the connection must go the other way.
02:40:04 <int-e> (I believe that this can occur in the standard orthogonal version as well, which I've played quite a bit)
02:41:46 <int-e> oerjan: I have used parity reasoning before, counting intersection of the path with some cross section of the whole board.
03:30:41 <oerjan> int-e: interesting, i'm not sure i have _ever_ directly used the fact that the loop must divide the board between an inner and outer part, the windows version i use doesn't show colors like that to make it obvious
03:30:53 <oerjan> jordan curve theorem ftw
03:32:23 <oerjan> is that new, maybe i should upgrade
03:34:45 <oerjan> although i quickly get there with my method by noticing that the line between the remaining 3's must be in the loop
03:44:12 <oerjan> ok i'm confused, i seem to see two different solutions
03:46:47 <oerjan> wait duh one doesn't connect the inner white area
03:47:32 <oerjan> which of course i've just claimed i wouldn't use, so how do i solve it...
03:50:24 <oerjan> oh i see. i would detect that the line connecting the right 3 to the outside cannot be in the loop because it would close the outer part of it
03:53:35 <oerjan> which i suppose is a _form_ of "inner and outer areas must connect", but more limited (and perhaps a dual view?)
04:00:57 <oerjan> i suppose loopy's solubility check algorithm might not know about that logic you described, in which case it could not accept a puzzle that _required_ it to solve.
04:02:51 <oerjan> (istr tatham writing somewhere that some of the puzzles cannot generate arbitrary hard instances because they're limited by the solving algorithms included to check that they're solvable)
04:03:16 <oerjan> (which are not always fully general)
04:03:49 <oerjan> and loopy is probably np-complete
04:10:23 <oerjan> well [[wikipedia:Slitherlink]] claims so, although the link is dead
04:10:58 <oerjan> s/claims so/has an external link to such a claim/
05:19:31 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86469 * CosmicMan08 * (+4048) Created page with "brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++ (or just bf19) is a joke derivative of [[Brainfuck]] by CosmicMan08#1975 ([[User:CosmicMan08]] meant to parody other brainfuck derivatives that j..."
05:22:13 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86470&oldid=86469 * CosmicMan08 * (+1) closed some parenthesis
05:32:10 <esolangs> [[Bf19]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86471 * CosmicMan08 * (+83) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]]
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05:38:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LarhoCherqi * New user account
05:46:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86472&oldid=86371 * LarhoCherqi * (+163)
05:52:24 <esolangs> [[User:LarhoCherqi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86473 * LarhoCherqi * (+1) Created page with "v"
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09:58:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Matthildefuckingslut * New user account
09:58:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86474&oldid=86472 * Matthildefuckingslut * (+62)
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10:36:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86475&oldid=86474 * Matthilde * (-1) it's not "an sult" it's a "a sult"
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11:58:38 <int-e> let's see if oerjan still logreads... I added the colors manually for illustration, it's not a feature of the puzzle implementation
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12:39:43 <fizzie> Razetime: Context here was https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/loopy.png and the Loopy puzzle. https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-07-20.html#lL
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14:46:35 <matthilde> .someone has been inpersonating me in the wiki, someone told me to contact you to talk about this
14:53:11 <int-e> Hmm, fizzie maybe?
14:53:36 <int-e> matthilde: I think your complaint will be seen, though it may take a while.
14:55:00 <matthilde> in short uh, someone made an account under the name of Matthildef*ckingslut
14:55:16 <matthilde> and added "Hi my name is Matthilde, my site is matthil.de and I am an slut"
14:55:18 <int-e> Yeah, we have a wiki logging bot
14:55:31 <matthilde> when I first seen it, I took it easy and fixed their typo just because lol
14:55:38 <matthilde> but I came here to tell it before it gets out of hand
14:56:00 <matthilde> (if ever it even gets out of hand)
14:56:49 <Taneb> matthilde: do you know why someone would want to inpersonate you in this way?
14:57:34 <matthilde> absolutely not, someone guessed it was because of my sexual orientation but i am not really open about it
14:57:40 <matthilde> I have no conflict with anyone around
14:57:48 <Taneb> It's... not something I can remember seeing anything like on the wiki before
14:58:22 <matthilde> i have no conflict with anyone that's the thing that makes me really confused
14:58:52 <matthilde> even less in the esolangs community
14:59:27 <int-e> Taneb: Well, we've had a few fights. The worst one so far was the ColorfulGalaxy one that spilled over from LifeWiki (as far as I understood)
15:00:15 <int-e> matthilde: It's an unrelated example.
15:02:33 <int-e> There's usually the question with trolls who have not really done much yet (yes, they left an insult; we can remove that)... do you give them the satisfaction of getting banned.
15:03:31 <matthilde> idk i just took it easy and played their game by fixing the typo they left
15:05:24 <Corbin> Maybe somebody's irritated at your wiki actions? This sort of random lashing-out was something I saw a lot on English Wikipedia.
15:06:43 <Taneb> Corbin: Matthilde has done not a huge amount on the wiki so I'd be surprised it that was it
15:06:45 <matthilde> lol that's weird cus as of today i only have done contribs in my own pages
15:07:13 <matthilde> i didn't even noticed it by myself, it's a friend of mine that notified me about it
15:07:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86476&oldid=86475 * Int-e * (-61) Remove entry not following the instructions. Oh and it was needlessly offensive too.
15:08:04 <int-e> (entries should be at the end and signed)
15:08:05 <matthilde> that reminds me i should go more often in this wiki, there is very interesting stuff in there
15:08:16 <int-e> <3 having formal reasons for cleanup
15:12:53 <Taneb> I've been thinking for a while about writing an optimizing brainfuck compiler to a) learn how to write a compiler (I've never actually really done it before) and b) see if my idea for recognizing and optimizing loops that calculate a polynomial does any good on real programs
15:16:36 <int-e> b) probably not once it goes beyond multiplication
15:19:04 <int-e> The real challenge would be to identify control flow, and that's pretty hard. Basically you have to reverse engineer the tape layout. And you may have to deal with fancy unbalanced loops (my own terminology; a loop is balanced if its body doesn't change the tape pointer)
15:24:04 <fizzie> I think it's exceedingly unlikely anyone's planning to use a username like that (meaning the one with the insult in it) for contributing positively, so I'd be happy to just block it, though I've no idea whether doing that would have any sort of net positive effect on anything.
15:26:36 <matthilde> i'll just hope nothing like that will happen in the future
15:27:37 <int-e> yeah, if you can, don't overthink it. internet trolls don't need a reason to do something. having an opinion can be enough... a random tweet... an email... whatever.
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15:38:32 <Corbin> Huh, Brainfuck gives a Type 2 computer; it takes a stream of natural numbers (a computable real number) and emits another stream.
15:41:13 <matthilde> int-e: I like implementing brainfuck interpreters, more than writing brainfuck programs lol
15:41:29 <matthilde> brainfuck is very simple but can be a challenge to write an optimized interpreter
15:43:40 <Taneb> In university I won a brainfuck programming competition
15:44:21 <Taneb> It's my proudest achievement
15:46:14 <Taneb> (there were two people who entered)
15:48:08 <Taneb> The final challenge was to write an ASCII art banner generator. Someone here (I can't remember who) gave me a simple bitmap font they'd made and I used Haskell as basically a macro language for brainfuck
15:48:16 <int-e> Taneb: 2 people, so it was a competition.
15:48:39 <int-e> Right, I was wondering whether code generation would be involved.
15:49:01 <Taneb> Sadly I have lost both the generating and the generated code
15:49:11 <int-e> The trouble with writing Brainfuck is that it's fun... at small sizes... and gets very tedious very quickly.
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15:49:19 <Taneb> I could probably get the latter by asking the society that ran the competition nicely
15:50:15 <Taneb> int-e: yeah, definitely. I hand-wrote my entry for all the other challenges, though
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16:05:02 <matthilde> i ended up 2nd on some esoteric programming language competition
16:05:16 <matthilde> basically we had to write an esolang that includes turtles
16:06:49 <matthilde> https://git.unix.lgbt/matthilde/turtlec/src/branch/master/programs/rpn.trt
16:06:57 <matthilde> an rpn calculator written in this language
16:21:48 <Razetime> the first thing that comes to mind when anyone says turtle is the graphics lib
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16:40:16 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdO3IP0Pro8
16:40:20 <riv> I highly recommend this
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17:26:53 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86477&oldid=86455 * Rdococ * (-42)
17:27:17 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86478&oldid=86477 * Rdococ * (-7) /* Introduction */
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18:10:28 <hanif> 22:14:07 <riv> https://nickdrozd.github.io/2021/07/11/self-cleaning-turing-machine.html => cool stuff, thanks for sharing
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21:35:23 <esolangs> [[Asm2bf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86479&oldid=82677 * Challenger5 * (-108) delete repeated sentence
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00:06:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86480&oldid=86476 * Everydayispain * (+180) /* Introductions */
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00:23:36 <esolangs> [[Tsaf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86481 * Everydayispain * (+648) Created page with "tsaf is the esolang version of fast. in tsaf all the commands are numbers syntax : (tsaf syntax - fast syntax) 3110 - idx 2870 - add 3221 - sub 3241 - mul 3099 - div..."
00:25:16 <esolangs> [[Tsaf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86482&oldid=86481 * Everydayispain * (+69)
00:27:04 <esolangs> [[Tsaf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86483&oldid=86482 * Everydayispain * (+42)
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01:16:35 <oerjan> <int-e> let's see if oerjan still logreads... I added the colors manually for illustration, it's not a feature of the puzzle implementation <-- ah
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01:32:32 <esolangs> [[Tsaf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86484&oldid=86483 * Everydayispain * (+134)
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01:58:00 <nakilon> who solved https://www.janestreet.com/puzzles/current-puzzle/ ?
01:58:37 <nakilon> it says last updated yesterday but my name isn't there
02:08:35 <nakilon> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/loopy.png -- there is one solution here because rules say "single closed loop"
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02:43:57 <oerjan> nakilon: i know too, i just somehow missed that it broke in two on first try
02:45:51 <oerjan> which may happen when you try to solve it in your head from a .png
02:50:06 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86485 * LarhoCherqi * (+2072) Created page with "Self-Recursive Brainfuck is a joke derivative of 8-bit [[Brainfuck]] (Brainfuck where every cell can have 256 values) by Larho#9031 ([[User:LarhoCherqi]]) with an extra # inst..."
02:56:56 <int-e> This only happened because I was hopelessly out of practice.
02:59:25 <int-e> (If you fail to visualize even a couple of lines reliably, it's attractive to look for conclusions that don't require adding new lines... tracking inside/outside was somehow easier at that moment.)
03:17:54 <int-e> (And apart from that, patterns were lacking... there is a local conclusion that can be drawn just from the right one out of the two unsolved 3s and I didn't find that yesterday.)
03:39:59 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86486&oldid=86485 * LarhoCherqi * (+34)
03:49:45 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86487&oldid=86486 * LarhoCherqi * (-1)
03:50:08 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86488&oldid=86487 * LarhoCherqi * (-1)
03:51:24 <esolangs> [[Self-Referencing Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86489 * LarhoCherqi * (+38) Redirected page to [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]]
05:04:27 <oerjan> int-e: hm i was archive binging a bit after reading today's girl genius and found this https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20190930
05:04:56 <oerjan> i didn't notice back then, but it fits my idea that maybe albia did something to krosp
05:05:43 <oerjan> (allowing him to betray vapnoople)
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06:53:59 <zzo38> What I should think added into HTML is a command (probably a JavaScript function) which disables all further network access and optionally also writing to local storage; this way if you have a single file HTML application you can download it and add such a command to disable network access if it has any.
06:54:55 <zzo38> (This way it can be set in each individual file if wanted)
07:01:30 <zzo38> It is similar to the pledge function in BSD, I suppose
07:08:59 <esolangs> [[Repetition Legitimizes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86490 * LarhoCherqi * (+1135) Created page with "Repetition Legitimizes is a joke esolang created by [[User:LarhoCherqi|Larho#9031]] with only 2 commands. It has a memory of 24 cells that overflow once the value in them goes..."
07:09:43 <esolangs> [[Repetition Legitimizes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86491&oldid=86490 * LarhoCherqi * (-1) /* Cat */
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07:59:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wasif. * New user account
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13:01:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Martysh12 * New user account
13:08:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86492&oldid=86480 * Martysh12 * (+168) Martysh12 introduction
13:21:44 <esolangs> [[Repetition Legitimizes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86493&oldid=86491 * LarhoCherqi * (+334)
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14:27:28 <esolangs> [[Cod]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86494&oldid=79533 * Tape * (+0)
14:41:55 <esolangs> [[COD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86495&oldid=78610 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) m
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15:31:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ais523 * blocked [[User:Matthildefuckingslut]] with an expiration time of indefinite (autoblock disabled, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page): Unacceptable username: usernames that appear to exist for the purpose of attacking other users are unacceptable; if you want to contribute here, please do so only constructively, an
15:34:36 <ais523> re: the recent incident on the wiki, I have no idea who's behind the account in question, but the username is unacceptable (because its apparent purpose is to attack another user) so I blocked the account on that basis
15:36:12 <ais523> fwiw, although I haven't seen something like this on Esolang before, I've adminned other wikis and I've seen similar incidents on other wikis (of someone joining a site just to attack a particular other user there)
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16:03:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Chefton14 * New user account
16:05:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86496&oldid=86492 * Chefton14 * (+173) /* Introductions */
16:08:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86497&oldid=86436 * Everydayispain * (+11) /* T */
16:15:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Chefton14 * moved [[Esolang:Community portal]] to [[Help:Community portal]]
16:15:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Chefton14 * moved [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] to [[Help talk:Community portal]]
16:18:10 <esolangs> [[Tsaf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86502&oldid=86484 * Everydayispain * (-110)
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19:54:22 <esolangs> [[MalbolgeLisp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86503&oldid=76625 * HyperNeutrino * (+8724) Replace the wiki with the repository's README.txt as per Palaiologos's request: https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/58681454
20:24:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Barongello * New user account
20:29:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86504&oldid=86496 * Barongello * (+207) /* Introductions */
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20:49:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Sanscicondos * uploaded "[[File:Cheese squared logo.png]]": First logo for cheese squared. Created by Sanscicondos.
20:50:07 <esolangs> [[User:Sanscicondos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86506&oldid=83056 * Sanscicondos * (+0)
20:52:17 <esolangs> [[StairCase]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86507 * Barongello * (+19384) Created page with "= StairCase Language = Esoteric programming language created recreationally to just add one more weird language to [https://esolangs.org Esolangs] and learn a little bit abou..."
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20:52:51 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86508&oldid=86185 * Sanscicondos * (+94)
20:53:54 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86509&oldid=86497 * Barongello * (+16) /* S */
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22:55:16 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86510&oldid=86488 * LarhoCherqi * (+16) /* Hello, World! */
22:56:07 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86511&oldid=86510 * LarhoCherqi * (+30) /* Examples */
23:02:59 <zzo38> Is there the possibility in Linux (or other operating systems) to create a temporary file which is associated with two other files as the key to access it?
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23:09:06 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86512&oldid=86511 * LarhoCherqi * (+247)
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23:21:12 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86513&oldid=86470 * CosmicMan08 * (+336) Added Examples
23:22:06 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86514&oldid=86513 * CosmicMan08 * (-1) /* Quines */
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23:50:12 <esolangs> [[User:LarhoCherqi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86515&oldid=86473 * LarhoCherqi * (+208)
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23:54:14 <esolangs> [[Repetition Legitimizes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86516&oldid=86493 * LarhoCherqi * (-504)
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23:55:07 <esolangs> [[Repetition Legitimizes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86517&oldid=86516 * LarhoCherqi * (-12) /* Cat [in theory] */
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00:13:48 <esolangs> [[Tsaf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86518&oldid=86502 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) /* external resources */ cats
00:33:23 <^[> zzo38: Could you elaborate on "associated" and "key"?
00:33:57 <^[> Do you mean something along the lines of hard or symbolic links?
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00:44:26 <zzo38> ^[: I mean that if you have a link to two files, that pair of links will be like the name of the temporary file
00:46:29 <^[> But either piece of the pair can't be sufficient on its own to access the contents of the temporary file?
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05:10:47 <esolangs> [[PlusOrMinus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86519&oldid=79476 * Voltage2007 * (-287)
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10:54:52 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86520 * Dominicentek * (+2756) Created page with "TextGarbage (previously named [[Gibberish]] but that's already taken) is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Dominicentek]]. It's commands are only 1 character..."
10:55:28 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86521&oldid=86246 * Dominicentek * (+48)
10:57:22 <esolangs> [[Gibberish (programming language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86522&oldid=49043 * Dominicentek * (+35) /* See also */
10:58:22 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86523&oldid=86520 * Dominicentek * (+54)
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11:19:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86524&oldid=86509 * Dominicentek * (+18) /* T */
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13:15:18 <esolangs> [[PlusOrMinus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86525&oldid=86519 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-4) Headers
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13:33:13 <fizzie> Yes? Maybe. Who knows.
13:34:04 <Guest8999> is the discord more active than the IRC or?
13:36:37 <Taneb> There's a discord?
13:36:42 <Taneb> This place is pretty active
13:37:28 <fizzie> There's at least two discords.
13:37:37 <fizzie> I think there was some sort of a factional schism between them?
13:38:10 <fizzie> (All I know about the topic is what I read between the lines from the community portal page.)
13:48:30 <Guest8999> I'm about to submit a revision but still not sure about whether I should or not
13:48:56 <Guest8999> completely alters the explanation for Deadfish/Constants, page hasn't been touched for 6 years
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15:07:16 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86526&oldid=86523 * Dominicentek * (+56) Added interpreter
15:08:57 <fizzie> The words "pretty active" may have been overselling it a little.
15:12:41 <Taneb> It's more active than other IRC channels I'm in!
15:12:50 <Taneb> There's sometimes even multiple conversations a day!
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15:28:58 <b_jonas> hmmm... I should look up those Discords. I use Discord now, and might as well look what we direct people to from the wiki
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15:37:43 <fizzie> Someone moved Esolang:Community portal to Help:Community portal.
15:38:44 <fizzie> For no apparent reason that I can think of.
15:42:31 <b_jonas> and all the links point to the former
15:43:21 <b_jonas> even the sidebar links to the former
15:43:58 <fizzie> Yeah, it's just going to be a little noisy. But "Help:" isn't a namespace we really use -- there's just two redirects *from* Help: to Esolangs: namespace pages, and two very random pages (Help:Dottyweb and Help:Too vague) in it. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AllPages?from=&to=&namespace=12
15:44:00 <b_jonas> and it's a new user, that's their only edit after Introduce yourself
15:44:34 <fizzie> I think I'll move it back with a description suggesting discussing on the talk page if there's a specific reason why it would be better under Help:.
15:44:37 <b_jonas> no [[Help: I'm stuck in a wiki factory]] or similar? ok
15:46:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Fizzie * moved [[Help:Community portal]] to [[Esolang:Community portal]] over redirect: Revert "Community portal" page back to "Esolangs" namespace - please discuss on talk page if there's a reason why "Help" would be better
15:46:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Fizzie * moved [[Help talk:Community portal]] to [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] over redirect: Revert "Community portal" page back to "Esolangs" namespace - please discuss on talk page if there's a reason why "Help" would be better
15:46:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Fizzie * Fizzie deleted redirect [[Esolang:Community portal]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Help:Community portal]]"
15:46:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Fizzie * Fizzie deleted redirect [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Help talk:Community portal]]"
15:48:15 <fizzie> Of course I got the namespace wrong ("Esolangs" vs. "Esolang") in the edit message. :/
15:48:26 <b_jonas> that's why I type Project:
15:48:39 <b_jonas> easy to type and works on basically all mediawikis
15:48:49 <fizzie> Singular project name + plural domain is a good combination.
15:49:00 <b_jonas> no need to learn the localized names of the wikis
15:49:14 <b_jonas> in wikimedia projects those are so random in languages
15:49:22 <b_jonas> some were even changed after they got created
15:51:42 <b_jonas> the namespace should have been called Meta: originally, but it's too late for that now
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15:52:06 <fizzie> In any case, what I was *going* to say before I got distracted by the move was, there was some mild edit-warring on Community portal (around March 2021) regarding what seemed to be like some sort of a disagreement between the two Discord servers.
15:54:22 <fizzie> By the way, are those things called "servers" because you actually host them in some way, or is it something you just set up on the singular service provider's infrastructure?
15:54:36 <b_jonas> "server" is completely inappropriate
15:54:48 <fizzie> Thanks, I've been wondering.
15:54:58 <b_jonas> they're just a group of channels with shared moderators/owners
15:55:49 <b_jonas> or at least shared main owners by default, I think you can set more fine-grained permissions for moderation under them
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16:26:46 <int-e> https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#10x10t0dh#316277475083927 has way too many 2-s.
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16:48:27 <Melvar> I think the discord servers are actually called “guilds” in the API. Because it’s supposed to be a thing for gaming groups.
17:03:33 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86529&oldid=86526 * Dominicentek * (+7) Fixed example
17:10:03 <int-e> I guess "group" was too mundane when they were looking for more mainstream nomenclature.
17:21:29 <fizzie> Clan, tribe, cult, sect, clique, coterie, ... lots of words they could've used.
17:21:33 <Melvar> I think maybe a group refers to “group dm”, i.e. a pseudo-channel located in one’s private messages rather than in a guild.
17:23:08 <fizzie> `` wn coterie -over | tail -n1
17:23:10 <HackEso> 1. clique, coterie, ingroup, inner circle, pack, camp -- (an exclusive circle of people with a common purpose)
17:27:14 <int-e> fizzie: these all seem to have weird connotations
17:28:52 <zzo38> I think that IRC is much better than Discord with many ways, inclduing that you do not need to use their service and you do not need any Discord software to access IRC, you can use it even without IRC software too (although it works better if you do have, still it is at least doable without). Although some have bridges to connect between IRC and Discord (and possibly other protocols/services too)
17:30:24 <zzo38> The IRC for ZZT discussions is a bridge with the Discord that I had suggested and someone implemented it, I think there are only two people who mainly use the IRC (I am one of them)
17:33:11 <zzo38> I saw a program that is bridging many more services/protocols too than just that (although I have not used it)
17:35:32 <zzo38> You mention the "Help:" namespace in wiki is not of much use, but a summary of the wiki formatting might be a thing to put there, I suppose
17:39:52 <riv> IRC doesn't have images or voice calls though
17:41:32 <fizzie> I don't have strong opinions on what should live in the "Esolang" (project) namespace vs. "Help" namespace, I just didn't see a particular reason to move Esolang:Community portal, especially since it has a links to the old name. Things that are clearly more help-pagey could be there, I suppose, though it seems we've opted to redirect Help:Contents and Help:Editing to Esolang:Help instead.
18:20:27 <oren> It seems to be impossible to do separate compilation in safe Rust
18:21:17 <oren> A rust file cannot declare an external Rust function and call it without a unsafe {}
18:23:01 <keegan> what do you mean by separate compilation? each crate is compiled separately
18:23:36 <keegan> if you mean building .o files from two crates completely independent of each other and then linking them together then yes, that has to go through the C ABI
18:23:56 <oren> yes I mean separate compilation
18:24:28 <keegan> the native rust model is that you don't have header files, rather the metadata embedded in an already-compiled crate is what provides the information needed for safe and high-level linking
18:25:52 <keegan> so you have to build a crate before you can build something that depends on it
18:26:05 <keegan> and you can't have circular dependencies between crates
18:26:34 <keegan> (but you can have circular deps between the modules / .rs files within a single crate, because those are all combined into one logical AST and compiled at once)
18:26:46 <keegan> (modules are the unit of namespacing and visibility; crates are the unit of compilation and linking)
18:27:36 <oren> Why is the metadata not included inside the .o file
18:28:29 <keegan> it's included in a .rlib file which is Rust's version of a .o file
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18:28:45 <keegan> you rarely encounter raw .o files in a rust project
18:28:56 <keegan> only if you're making a component that will be linked into a C / C++ / other old school system
18:29:55 <oren> Okay. Can I compile two .rs files into their respective .rlib files and then link them into an executable?
18:30:06 <keegan> the point though is that the equivalent to a header file is generated by the compiler, not written by the programmer, and therefore you need to compile a crate before you can compile things that depend on them
18:30:21 <keegan> oren: yes but not independently of each other. you have to compile one before the other can import it
18:30:50 <keegan> because the .rlib contains the information equivalent to what a header file provides in C++
18:30:54 <keegan> function signatures, types, etc
18:31:47 <keegan> it's rare to be mucking around at this level
18:31:51 <keegan> almost all rust projects use cargo
18:32:05 <keegan> which handles all this stuff
18:32:31 <keegan> you just say what crates you want to use and they are built and made available
18:33:01 <keegan> it's nice, but it's not the same as C or C++, so if you want to force it to work the way C or C++ works then you'll probably have a bad time
18:33:23 <oren> But I don't want to download all my dependencies and recompile them every time
18:33:31 <keegan> it doesn't recompile them every time
18:33:35 <keegan> it's cached in the build directory
18:33:44 <keegan> and also downloads are cached systemwide i think
18:34:06 <keegan> idk it's been a long time since i worked with this stuff
18:34:09 <keegan> maybe you should ask in a rust help channel
18:38:05 <keegan> cargo can also handle local deps and not only stuff downloaded from crates.io
18:38:26 <keegan> you can have a whole tree of crates each containing many modules and build the whole thing with a single cargo invocation
18:38:37 <keegan> and it will cache results and only rebuild what it needs to
18:39:21 <keegan> crates are typically pretty big though. an entire library or a substantial chunk of one
18:39:53 <keegan> when C was invented in nineteen dickety twelve computers had tiny amounts of RAM and it made sense to compile practically every function separately and then link them
18:40:19 <keegan> these days whole-program or whole-library compilation is common even in the C/C++ world
18:41:21 <oren> I did on a rust discord.... apparently noone ever tried to uhhh
18:41:21 <oren> declare an extern "rust" { fn b(x:i32) -> i32; } and then call it
18:41:21 <oren> like, the rust compiler doesn't trust itself to generate safe object code
18:41:35 <keegan> since Rust is a newer design it went with a larger default for compilation unit size; all the .rs files within a crate are a single compilation unit and can refer to each other
18:42:18 <keegan> Rust doesn't have a stable ABI; if you built such extern "rust" stuff with two different compiler versions and then linked it, you could get undefined behavior
18:42:40 <keegan> do you have an actual reason to do things this way instead of the way you're supposed to?
18:43:16 <keegan> if you pretend that Rust is the same as C with externs and header files and independent compilation then you're gonna have a bad time
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18:46:13 <keegan> just because it's a systems language, does not mean that they have to do everything the same way C does it based on design constraints that are 60 years out of date
18:47:20 <oren> separate compilation means that an error in once file doesn't cause every other file to not compile
18:48:11 <keegan> you can't compile a crate without first compiling its dependencies
18:48:33 <keegan> i'm hardly a rust stan so if you think this means rust is garbage then feel free
18:49:07 <b_jonas> keegan: yes, and this model with crates only works if (1) you recompile everything, because the ABI isn't yet stable between versions of rust, and (2) you don't have circular dependencies among crates. Otherwise, you have to use the C model of exporting a stable foreign interface with a stable C ABI, importing those with explicit header files (this can be done in pure rust, no C bridge), then your ABI
18:49:13 <b_jonas> is stable and you can have circular dependencies and don't have to rebuild everything when you upgrade the compiler.
18:49:38 <keegan> but you lose the ability to use rust's expressive types in your interface
18:49:56 <keegan> you're really not supposed to have circular dependencies between crates
18:49:57 <b_jonas> The choice of which one you want to do is yours. And I think, "future" C++ is moving towards this model too, with new style C++ modules or whatever they're called, and GHC already used this model with Haskell.
18:50:22 <oren> But like... the only thing preventing me from calling the function is rustc's insistence that doing so is unsafe
18:50:28 <keegan> it's very similar to GHC except that GHC keeps the .hi files separate from .o files, whereas Rust bakes it into a special metadata section (and calls the result a .rlib)
18:50:30 <b_jonas> keegan: yes, but I don't particularly mind losing those types, because I'm a C++ programmer and I know how I want to represent my data, especially between compilation units, so I don't feel like that's a drawback.
18:50:44 <b_jonas> keegan: the drawback is that the import header isn't typechecked to the export header.
18:50:50 <b_jonas> Is there a way to automate that?
18:50:55 <keegan> oren: it is unsafe, because you could link objects created with different rustc versions that compile the same type in different ways
18:51:22 <oren> But the object files contain metadata that says what they were generated by
18:51:48 <keegan> oren: but what if the object files don't exist yet?
18:52:07 <keegan> if you already compiled the other crate then you don't need this nonsense
18:52:12 <keegan> you can just use it in the normal supported way
18:52:30 <keegan> with 'extern crate' or whatever it is these days
18:52:52 <keegan> you objected to the idea that you have to compile a crate before you can compile things that depend on it
18:53:30 <oren> yes. I'm saying that if it's so scared of linking to object files generated by a different version, then it could raise an error at link time
18:53:30 <keegan> because then it's not "separate compilation"
18:54:17 <oren> (since, rustc's .o files actually don't work with any linker besides rustc afaict)
18:54:35 <keegan> i suppose it could also check at link time that your declared headers match what was in that metadata
18:54:40 <keegan> still, i don't see the point
18:54:48 <keegan> i'm not saying it's impossible to implement this feature
18:54:56 <keegan> but it doesn't really fit with the rust compilation model
18:55:15 <oren> The point is to enable a separation of concerns between what happens inside a library and what happens outside
18:55:25 <keegan> that's just the crate system
18:55:41 <keegan> i think you should study how rust works more before you assume they don't have solutions to such basic problems
18:56:17 <keegan> your objection seems to be that I can't compile my project without first compiling its dependencies, and this means I can't find errors in my code if the dependencies don't build
18:56:32 <keegan> however, obviously those errors may depend on what's actually in those dependency crates
18:56:49 <keegan> if i used some function or type from a library wrong, then it needs to know what's in that library to know i used it wrong
18:57:04 <keegan> whether by compiling it or just having a header file for it (as in C/C++)
18:58:15 <keegan> fwiw it's common in large projects to put a bunch of types and traits in their own crate that everything else depends on
18:58:26 <keegan> and this decreases the potential for circular dependencies between those other crates
18:58:47 <keegan> you can use the trait system kind of like header files
18:59:17 <keegan> where one bit of code operates on a generic type bounded by a trait
18:59:26 <keegan> and another bit of code (which could be in a separate crate) provides the concrete implementation
18:59:46 <keegan> and those two pieces can be compiled independently because they only depend on the core "types" crate
18:59:47 <oren> You also can't change a library without recompiling all calling code
19:00:07 <keegan> (the actual machine code generation still happens at the end though)
19:00:09 <oren> seems ripe for a leftpad problem
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19:01:04 <keegan> seems unrelated to leftpad though
19:01:11 <keegan> that wasn't a compilation issue (javascript isn't even compiled)
19:01:22 <keegan> it's just that someone pulled a library that a lot of people depended on
19:01:38 <keegan> there are lots of ways to deal with that in rust without needing to change the compilation model
19:02:08 <keegan> one is just to vendor your dependencies
19:02:49 <keegan> also crates.io is designed so that once you "yank" a crate people who were already using that version can still use it
19:04:05 <keegan> there's no supported way to take your code off crates.io permanently
19:05:02 <keegan> of course the site admins could still do it
19:05:12 <keegan> if you pushed a crate with nuclear secrets or child porn or something
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19:08:08 <keegan> if your point is just that rust encourages you to have lots of transitive dependencies then i agree
19:08:14 <keegan> that's the tradeoff for making code reuse really easy
19:08:17 <keegan> people start reusing code
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19:09:04 <keegan> i know it makes many people and organizations nervous to pull lots of code from the internet willy nilly and that's valid
19:09:12 <keegan> and they can set whatever policy about using external crates they like
19:09:52 <keegan> i believe there are even ways to host your own local crates.io-like repository for your organization that contains only your trusted crates
19:09:58 <keegan> and use that on your airgapped build machines
19:11:13 <keegan> i'd rather at least have the option to reuse code rather than the C world where external libraries are such a pain and cause so much user bitching (ask me how i know) that every project just hand rolls their own broken shitty implementations of basic data structures and algorithms
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19:41:32 <oren> external libraries are very common in C ??*
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19:45:04 <pikhq> They are but they’re a complete pain in the ass to use, so there’s strong incentives to minimize their use.
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19:46:01 <keegan> when i was a mosh maintainer we got so much shit over every external dependency
19:46:11 <keegan> from distros with weird packaging requriements and from users who want to build on ancient systems etc
19:46:24 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86532&oldid=86531 * Dtuser1337 * (+54) /* Function Commands */
19:46:37 <keegan> so yes I did reimplement some of the smaller things just to avoid those headaches
19:46:38 <pikhq> (And if you think they aren’t, I suggest you get acquainted with other language environments, at least to know what alternate environments can look like)
19:47:40 <oren> Rust gets around this my just not working on any exotic environments
19:48:14 <shachaf> I'd much rather the C model than the npm model.
19:49:05 <pikhq> I want an actually good model. If such a thing can exist.
19:49:25 <pikhq> I think it’s a hard problem though.
19:49:58 <keegan> there were several scrapped attempts to make a dependencies and build system for Rust before the current Cargo system
19:50:27 <keegan> when I was working on servo, Cargo in its current form didn't exist
19:50:37 <keegan> we used complex makefiles and it was a mess
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19:50:48 <oren> I mean the rust model could be made to work by uhh... just having the compiler trust external rust code to be valid rust code. I get the ABI issue but just... idk they have to have a stable aBI eventually right?
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19:51:05 <shachaf> Now I'm thinking something that's probably slightly moralizing, along the lines of, the experience of doing a thing should be similar to its actual cost.
19:51:21 <keegan> it took C++ decades to have a stable ABI on common platforms
19:51:40 <keegan> have you seen what goes into a document like that?
19:51:46 <keegan> the Rust language is still evolving pretty quickly
19:51:51 <keegan> they are able to maintain backwards compat at the source level
19:51:57 <keegan> but maintaining ABI compat is a whole different issue
19:52:18 <keegan> I think stable ABI is a long-term goal but it's fairly far down the list
19:52:26 <keegan> it doesn't solve a pressing problem for most users
19:52:46 <keegan> whereas the things that stable ABI would impede (faster development of new language features) do
19:53:28 <pikhq> Cargo, and failing that, having the external ABI of a library be C-shaped, seem to be good enough for most use cases for now.
19:53:49 <keegan> most people have no problem with the fact that you have to compile a crate's dependencies first
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19:54:15 <shachaf> C interfaces are generally much better than C++ interfaces, between different components of a system. You probably don't need C++ interfaces for anything.
19:54:40 <shachaf> Components should be coarse-grained with no ABI stability inside a component.
19:55:30 <keegan> it's true that compile times are a common pain point
19:55:33 <keegan> but that's only somewhat related
19:55:41 <keegan> since only the crates that have changed, and crates that depend on them, will be rebuilt
19:55:45 <keegan> and in many cases that's unavoidable
19:56:04 <keegan> if I change a type in some library crate then I have to recompile everything that uses that library at least as far as checking that it uses the new type correctly
19:56:39 <keegan> certainly you can get nightmare situations in C when you change a header file and don't recompile the corresponding library
19:58:19 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86536&oldid=86535 * Dtuser1337 * (+302) /* Implementation Dependent Commands */
19:59:11 <zzo38> I would rather to not have too many external dependencies, regardless of what programming language it is
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20:00:36 <keegan> oren: anyway it's not just a matter of trusting that the same ABI was used, you also have to trust that the "header files" or equivalent faithfully represent the code in the library you're linking against
20:00:57 <keegan> right now that is accomplished by making them a side product of the compilation of the library itself
20:01:31 <keegan> this is very convenient, it means all the information used by the compiler as it compiles the library is also available to describe how to link the library
20:02:07 <keegan> if you moved to a system of manually written header files, not only would that be more work for the programmer, but the compiler would still need to generate this metadata so that the linker can check the manually written header file against it at link time
20:02:16 <keegan> otherwise you have the possibility of undefined behavior
20:03:01 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86538&oldid=86537 * Dtuser1337 * (+238) /* File I/O Commands */
20:03:17 <oren> i don't advocate manually writing header files
20:03:45 <keegan> your 'extern "rust" { ... }' block serves the purpose of a header file
20:04:04 <oren> Yes because that is currently the only way
20:04:22 <keegan> GHC supports manual header files in the form of .hs-boot. but if you screw up and don't faithfully represent the corresponding .hs file then your code can segfault
20:04:36 <oren> What I'd like is a system that works like this:
20:04:54 <keegan> oren: look, the type signatures for a library have to come from somewhere. either they are a product of building the library (the current Rust solution) or they are written by the programmer (C solution)
20:04:56 <oren> rustc --generate-headers a.rs -o a.rsh
20:05:42 <oren> But see, that is a *separate* step from the step of compiling object code
20:05:59 <keegan> and what if there's a syntax error in a.rs
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20:06:19 <keegan> but your goal for separate compilation was that the deps don't even need to build properly in order to use them
20:06:41 <keegan> what's the point of making this a separate step anyway?
20:06:43 <oren> Correct. if a.rs fails to build, you still have old a.rsh
20:07:02 <keegan> and what if you change a.rs and don't rebuild the a.rsh?
20:07:16 <keegan> now it might have inaccurate signatures
20:07:20 <keegan> and your code can segfault
20:08:08 <keegan> anyway if you're talking about manually invoking rustc then you're probably doing something wrong
20:08:23 <keegan> 99.9% of rust users use cargo
20:08:31 <keegan> which already has a comprehensive solution for dependencies
20:08:35 <keegan> whether local or downloaded
20:09:01 <oren> the entire point is that you can make changes in a.rs that *don't* change the signatures of externally visible functions, and in that case, *only* a.rs, and not the files using it, need to be recompiled.
20:09:21 <shachaf> None of this would be an issue if the compiler wasn't so slow, right?
20:09:47 <keegan> I think the more rusty way to do this would be to compare the old and new metadata emitted by compiling a.rs
20:09:57 <keegan> and if they match then don't recompile things that depend on it
20:10:11 <keegan> then there is no separate .rsh file and no janky manually regenerating it
20:10:33 <keegan> but I think you'll find that most of the time changes really do require downstream libs to be rebuilt
20:10:37 <keegan> especially when generics come into play
20:10:45 <keegan> remember Rust monomorphizes generics
20:11:05 <keegan> you know how templated C++ libraries are entirely header files?
20:11:18 <oren> templates are bad
20:12:01 <keegan> Rust's generics are a bit saner semantically than C++ templates, but the compilation strategy is the same
20:12:08 <oren> Yes, and that makes Rust bad
20:12:22 <riv> rust has macros
20:13:12 <keegan> it sounds like you have ample reasons not to use Rust and that separate compilation is not the one thing holding you back
20:13:29 <keegan> i don't use rust either
20:13:49 <keegan> i don't really have a use case for it anymore and i don't like the community and i don't enjoy programming for its own sake
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20:15:17 <Melvar> Other amusement: with GHC IIUC the ABI doesn’t just differ between versions, but is also different if you’re compiling with profiling (because all heap objects have to have extra metadata for that).
20:15:53 <shachaf> GHC also generates different memory layout for types with optimizations on.
20:15:58 <keegan> and threaded vs unthreaded runtime
20:16:05 <oren> doesn't GHC use C as a IL tho
20:16:14 <keegan> oren: usually not, these days
20:16:48 <keegan> as of a few years ago they removed the peformance-oriented via-C backend
20:16:59 <keegan> keeping only the "unregisterized" version for support of obscure platforms
20:17:01 <Melvar> I think the answer is “sort of”, in that it uses a C-- representation internally at one point, but this is not written out or fed to a separate compiler.
20:17:15 <keegan> Cmm is not really anything like C
20:17:27 <keegan> it is an IR similar in purpose to LLVM
20:17:45 <keegan> the start of GHC development predates LLVM by a long time so they had to make their own IR
20:17:46 <Melvar> Okay sorry, don’t really know anything about its structure.
20:18:12 <Melvar> Yeah, and nowadays there actually *is* an LLVM backend apparently?
20:18:20 <keegan> the pipeline these days is like AST -> Core -> STG -> Cmm -> LLVM -> machine code
20:18:27 <keegan> or direct from Cmm to machine code
20:18:46 <keegan> the direct-to-asm backend is faster to compile but supports fewer architectures and has fewer optimazitons
20:19:11 <keegan> the "registerized" (perf-oriented C) backend was basically there to piggyback on GCC backend optimizations
20:19:19 <keegan> the stuff it generated was not portable C in any sense
20:19:23 <keegan> it was grotesquely GCC specific C
20:19:38 <keegan> and the assembly output of GCC would be further postprocessed by a 4,000 line Perl script known as the Evil Mangler
20:20:05 <keegan> because some basic things you need in a functional lang backend IR (like computed tail calls) are impossible to represent in portable C
20:20:10 <keegan> anyway that whole nasty mess is gone
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20:20:32 <keegan> and remains only the relatively saner "unregisterized" C output which does not try to be performant
20:20:43 <keegan> they may have removed that too in the years since i stopped paying attention
20:21:08 <Melvar> I’m pretty sure it still exists, but the only reason it does is to allow bootstrapping ghc to a new architecture.
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20:21:31 <keegan> i had some fun trying to bootstrap GHC onto ARM Android long ago
20:21:37 <oren> GHC had perl as a dependency? wild
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20:22:16 <keegan> other fun facts about GHC internals: GHCi has its own multiplatform dynamic linker
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20:22:26 <keegan> this means that despite being an "interpreter" it is the least portable part of GHC
20:22:51 <keegan> getting ghci to work on a new platform is a whole additional can of worms
20:23:17 <keegan> it works this way because they want to call into native code compiled haskell libs from bytecode-interpreted code
20:23:34 <keegan> i'm not sure why they don't use dlopen() or some other standard mechanism for code loading
20:23:41 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86546&oldid=86545 * Dtuser1337 * (-4) /* Stacks */
20:23:43 <keegan> but there are probably reasons
20:24:00 <keegan> compiled Haskell code looks very different from compiled C code
20:24:12 <keegan> there aren't really any functions in the sense of call/ret pairs
20:24:29 <keegan> as i recall most basic blocks end in a computed jump
20:24:32 <Melvar> Of course, architecture support is entwined with having a runtime implementation that works on that architecture and the primitives that call into it.
20:24:38 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86547&oldid=86546 * Dtuser1337 * (+1) /* Commands */
20:24:45 <keegan> this is the nature of the spineless tagless G-machine (which is neither spineless nor tagless, oh well)
20:25:03 <keegan> there isn't a normal call stack either
20:25:17 <keegan> except when you make a FFI call then obviously it has to set up a C like stack
20:25:30 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86548&oldid=86547 * Dtuser1337 * (-5) /* Implementation Dependent Commands */
20:25:33 <oren> well, it makes sense not to use a call stack because it would be huge
20:25:35 <keegan> and this gets into the difference between "safe" and "unsafe" FFI calls
20:26:27 <keegan> debugging ghc produced code in gdb is great fun
20:27:10 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86549&oldid=86548 * Dtuser1337 * (-19) /* Simple Calculator */
20:28:46 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86550&oldid=86549 * Dtuser1337 * (+13) /* Function Commands */
20:29:10 <Melvar> Fun stuff: I was recently wondering if, in a data constructor with multiple unboxed Word8# fields, those fields would be packed efficiently or be put into a word each. I couldn’t find an answer online, but I did find that GHC exposes some heap introspection modules so I could, after some back and forth, create such a value and then get info about the heap object representing it.
20:29:57 <keegan> oh yeah that stuff is fun
20:29:59 <Melvar> (I found that the Word8#s were in fact packed into one word.)
20:31:02 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86551&oldid=86550 * Dtuser1337 * (-68) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
20:32:09 <b_jonas> So much discussion here, I'll have to check the scrollback.
20:32:24 <b_jonas> I was doing esoteric experiments with factorio, and there are more esoteric experiments that I want to try.
20:33:23 <Melvar> I was wondering this in the first place because a beginner came around asking if there was any lower-overhead type for 32-byte blobs that they needed to be handling a lot. Even a primitive ByteArray# is boxed and stores its own length and thus has two words of overhead, so even a Short Bytestring that wraps it has four words of overhead, which is as big as the payload on 64-bit.
20:35:12 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86552&oldid=86529 * Dtuser1337 * (-2) /* See also */
20:35:58 <Melvar> So I had the harebrained idea that the lowest-overhead option (two words) would be a data constructor with four Word64# fields, but that means you have to do bitshifting and masking to get at individual bytes.
20:36:15 <b_jonas> keegan: in rust, can I export and import foreign functions with a C-like API but rust mangling of the names, and does that mangling contain partial type information like in C++ mangling?
20:36:35 <Melvar> So I started wondering whether a data constructor with 32 Word8# fields would be efficiently packed.
20:36:59 <b_jonas> I guess I should ask in ##rust insteead
20:39:29 <Melvar> (There was another harebrained solution I thought of, which was to use an LLVM-backend-specific SIMD vector type.)
20:39:53 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86553&oldid=86551 * Dtuser1337 * (+2) /* Function Commands */
20:45:21 <Melvar> (Passing around a Word8X32# should have zero overhead, right?)
20:47:53 <zzo38> In some C codes I have passing and returning a structure of two 32-bit integers. How efficiently is that implemented on 64-bit x86 Linux?
20:49:46 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86554&oldid=86553 * Dtuser1337 * (+27)
20:50:54 <zzo38> typedef struct { union { Sint32s; Uint32 u; }; Uint32 t; } Value; Also what will it be on the other computers too? How does it compare to the use of a 64-bit integer type?
20:51:52 <riv> i think its better to use integers
20:52:02 <riv> bitshifting
20:52:02 <fizzie> At least in terms of the x86-64 sysV ABI, I don't think there's much of a difference between that and a 64-bit integer type.
20:52:17 <fizzie> It does get returned in a single 64-bit register.
20:56:54 <b_jonas> fizzie: I don't think so: in the x86-64 calling convention, plain vector types are returned in a register, if it's just one vector, not a structure with multiple vectors
20:57:26 <b_jonas> I mean it is returned in a vector register, not a general register, which may be better or worse
20:57:28 <fizzie> `` echo -e '#include <stdint.h> \n typedef struct { union { int32_t s; uint32_t u; }; uint32_t t; } Value; Value foo(void) { return (Value){ .u = 0x01234567, .t = 0x89abcdef }; }' | gcc -x c - -o - -S -O2 | grep -v '\.' | grep -A 2 'foo:'
20:57:30 <HackEso> foo: \ movabsq$-8526495043095935641, %rax \ ret
20:57:34 <fizzie> See, it gets returned in rax.
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20:59:15 <b_jonas> fizzie: that uses integer types, not SIMD vector types
20:59:23 <fizzie> Yes, but so did the question.
20:59:48 <fizzie> "If the class is INTEGER, the next available register of the sequence %rax, %rdx is used."
21:00:52 <fizzie> `` echo -e '#include <stdint.h> \n typedef struct { uint32_t a, b, c, d; } Value; Value foo(void) { return (Value){ .a = 1, .b = 2, .c = 3, .d = 4 }; }' | gcc -x c - -o - -S -O2 | grep -v '\.' | grep -A 3 'foo:' # returned in those two GPRs
21:00:54 <HackEso> foo: \ movabsq$8589934593, %rax \ movabsq$17179869187, %rdx \ ret
21:02:29 <b_jonas> fizzie: Melvar mentioned "SIMD vector type" and "Word8X32#"
21:02:55 <fizzie> Well, I was answering zzo38's question.
21:03:14 <int-e> hmm, actually, does gcc have an option to produce hex literals in assembly?
21:04:18 <b_jonas> so I was looking at a wrong question
21:04:35 <int-e> (probably not, but it would really be helpful sometimes)
21:04:43 <fizzie> And I wasn't looking at the backscroll at all, so I didn't even realize there was a question it could be confused with.
21:05:00 <b_jonas> there was so much backscroll\
21:05:01 <int-e> `` dc <<<16o8589934593p17179869187p
21:05:15 <b_jonas> and my head is still full with testing esoteric designs in factorio
21:05:25 <fizzie> int-e: I don't think it does, but clang puts the hex version in a comment.
21:05:41 <b_jonas> because there are so many different possibilities to test, and some of them behave in an unpredictable way that takes a long time to converge to some equilibrium
21:05:53 <b_jonas> (that's of course because I'm testing those tricky cases specifically)
21:06:27 <b_jonas> It started with asking an innocent question, and the answer turns out to be... maybe, it depends on a lot of factors
21:06:47 <fizzie> No clang in the HackEso installation. But it produces `movabsq $8589934593, %rax # imm = 0x200000001` + `movabsq $17179869187, %rdx # imm = 0x400000003`.
21:21:28 <int-e> Hmm, why does xboard consult a chess program to check the legality of move, and why do said chess programs have trouble with black's moves in b1bkb1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1bBbKb2 ...
21:22:57 <int-e> err, that's missing the missing the w - - 0 2 part (white to move, etc.)
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22:16:25 <b_jonas> int-e: what notation is that?
22:17:05 <b_jonas> is that like a checkered pattern of black bishops?
22:17:14 <b_jonas> why does it have "1" everywhere instead of a column number?
22:17:14 <int-e> With one hole at h1, yes.
22:17:26 <int-e> 1 is for one empty square
22:17:57 <b_jonas> oh, so this is like a RLE, not like the other kind of encoding that uses absolute column numbers to fill with empty squares
22:19:12 <zzo38> As far as I know, FEN is a common kind of encoding for chess; I don't know what other kind of encoding you mean
22:20:01 <int-e> b_jonas: Yeah. Usually you get bigger numbers than that :) The starting position has /8/8/8/8/ in the middle. Also lower case is black and upper case is white.
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22:28:05 <int-e> https://paste.debian.net/1205297/
22:29:39 <int-e> I actually saw it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jglvRpbJZzk
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23:23:34 <oerjan> <Guest8999> completely alters the explanation for Deadfish/Constants, page hasn't been touched for 6 years <-- hm didn't i write that
23:28:42 <oerjan> seems Mroman wrote the basics and i expanded to >256
23:31:04 <oerjan> looking at it the second sentence of the second paragraph is a bit confusing and technically wrong
23:31:55 <oerjan> i think it's mixing backward and forward thinking
23:35:27 <oerjan> i guess i'll wait to see Guest8999's rewrite
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03:12:44 <oerjan> . o O ( no, not particularly )
03:30:56 <esolangs> [[Back Alley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86558&oldid=86557 * Zing * (+54) /* Back Alley */
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05:44:38 <shachaf> Taneb: The thing about All being coinductive and Any being inductive is interesting.
05:45:21 <shachaf> In particular with them being demorganizations of each other. At least one way, maybe both ways?
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06:05:54 <Taneb> By demoganizations of each other, do you mean like how All P is equivalent to ¬ Any (¬ P)?
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06:06:35 <Taneb> (by equivalent to I mean classically equivalent to)
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06:55:24 <Taneb> shachaf: what do you find interesting about it? To me it's just, like, a thing
06:56:17 <shachaf> I mean the thing I said, I guess. Should negation take you from/to inductive to/from coinductive?
06:59:19 <riv> the left and right of the arrow are negative and positive ->
07:00:07 <riv> since ~P is P -> False, it's on the left of the arrow so P is in a negative position
07:00:44 <riv> P doesn't go from being inductive to coinductive, it goes from having to be introduced to having to be eliminated
07:06:08 <shachaf> Taneb: Also, how does this relate to the modalities "always" and "eventually"?
07:06:15 <shachaf> You're saying things like "always eventually X"
07:08:13 <Taneb> Always eventually X iff X infinitely often, Eventually always X iff ¬X finitely often
07:08:53 <shachaf> So in constructive settings, do you only get one de Morgan dual thing holding?
07:09:25 <shachaf> I guess you don't have ¬(A and B) --> ¬A or ¬B
07:10:04 <shachaf> There's a name for this thing, right?
07:10:23 <shachaf> This thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A9-consistent_theory
07:12:29 <Taneb> I've not seen that before!
07:15:05 <Taneb> It's interesting, thank you
07:31:46 <esolangs> [[Check]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86568&oldid=57116 * Challenger5 * (+4) fix implementation link
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12:33:39 <esolangs> [[IWANNADIE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86576&oldid=86574 * Antikore * (+7)
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17:00:47 <riv> if anyone wants to read inference.pdf along with me
17:00:55 <riv> http://inference.org.uk/itprnn/book.pdf
17:01:20 <riv> python3 -m pagelabels --delete inference-fixed.fixed.pdf ; python3 -m pagelabels --startpage 1 --prefix "Intro " --type "roman uppercase" inference-fixed.fixed.pdf ; python3 -m pagelabels --startpage 13 inference-fixed.fixed.pdf
17:01:25 <riv> you can fix the page numbers with this command
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20:08:18 <zzo38> Is it possible in HTML for a script to read the contents of a <noscript> block in the document?
20:14:59 <fizzie> I imagine it's still included in the DOM? Never thought about it though.
20:16:35 <fizzie> Maybe it's not. Interesting.
20:24:18 <riv> good question
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20:26:15 <fizzie> There was something in the HTML5 spec about the parser treating the element differently depending on whether scripting is enabled, "for historical reasons".
20:28:45 <^[> riv: Do you have a channel for discussing the book?
20:29:13 <riv> no, nobody else showed interest
20:29:21 <riv> mybe offbeat
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21:18:36 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddocks%27_Eyes this is completely *******
21:18:44 <riv> there should be an esolang based no this
21:18:59 <riv> > a name as identification marker may be assigned to anything, including another name
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21:19:45 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:60: error: parse error on input ‘,’
21:26:11 <^[> https://www.php.net/manual/en/language.variables.variable.php
21:28:59 <riv> ive seen this used in php viruses
21:51:49 <zzo38> Some web pages say that it doesn't work without JavaScripts, or just displays nothing at all without JavaScripts, and this is no good. Some might be made to work without JavaScripts; if that is not the case, the <noscript> can display such links as: API documentation, other documentation, other file formats (e.g. Markdown, CSV), other protocols (e.g. NNTP, IRC), etc.
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00:19:55 <nakilon> riv did you solve that puzzle with shaded numbers?
00:20:51 <nakilon> btw guys, how do I explain a smart guy (programmer too) that it's useful to get into IRC and speak to peoeple here in channels relevent to him?
00:23:40 <nakilon> he totally misunderstands what the chats are -- he like many aothers says "a multiuser chat? oh I know, I saw it in 2000s, there was a website where people were coming to propose virtual sex to each other and post shit"
00:24:35 <nakilon> he does not understand that chat is just a communication instrument -- instead he thinks that I'm joking that there are for example freenode/libera where there re chats about his programming languages and linux distros
00:24:47 <nakilon> he says "bullshit, people there are just to ask for nudes"
00:25:14 <nakilon> this is ridiculous, he totally doesn't want to even imagine there is some internet technology other than that
00:25:54 <nakilon> he's available in skype only because it's the intrument that HRs were using for job interviews
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02:25:24 <zzo38> Do they know that some IRC (such as this one) have logs?
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03:59:56 <esolangs> [[Patternfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86587&oldid=85527 * Robolta * (+9)
05:15:18 <zzo38> Do you like this Programmable Compression Format? http://sprunge.us/P7GgQ0 (it is not yet completed being written; we can figure out how to make a instruction set that can result in shorter programs being written, especially for kind of things being common for data compression)
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08:06:58 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86588&oldid=54462 * Voltage2007 * (+151) renovated explanation
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08:55:58 <esolangs> [[Gott]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86589&oldid=42275 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+149) /* Syntax/Functions */ use a table instead of a <pre> to describe the functions
08:58:16 <esolangs> [[Gott]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86590&oldid=86589 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+46) /* Syntax/Functions */ add header to table
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09:47:43 <esolangs> [[ZiziQue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86591&oldid=66811 * Voltage2007 * (+869)
09:48:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Esolang:Community portal [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": High traffic page: linked from sidebar, shouldn't be a reason to rename it unless we come to a consensus first
09:49:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Esolang:Categorization [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": High traffic page: linked from sidebar, shouldn't be a reason to rename it unless we come to a consensus first
09:52:12 <riv> Zipfs law: p_n ~= 0.1/n for n=1,12367, 0 otherwise
09:52:29 <riv> for probability of the nth most frequent english word
09:53:12 <riv> it is not known why
10:07:26 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipf%27s_law
10:10:16 <fizzie> Yeah, I like the word "Zipfian".
10:24:45 <riv> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapax_legomenon
10:26:54 <fizzie> fungot: What's your solution to the problem of hapax legomena?
10:26:54 <fungot> fizzie: " display fnord" still outputs the one with the singing. :) anyways, i still use it
10:27:16 <fizzie> Hah, surprisingly on-topic.
10:27:26 <fizzie> ("fnord" is what it translates those to.)
10:29:29 <riv> 𪚥 does this show up for anyone?
10:31:31 <fizzie> Just a square for me, both in the terminal and the browser.
10:32:56 <HackEso> [U+2A6A5 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-2A6A5]
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11:05:22 <esolangs> [[IWANNADIE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86594&oldid=86580 * Antikore * (+6) /* Commands */
11:17:12 <esolangs> [[Fear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86595&oldid=77638 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+161) format better using <code> and code blocks; correct z[ ASCII example (the next character after z is {, not [; [ is after Z)
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11:29:52 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86596&oldid=86521 * Dominicentek * (+0)
11:36:20 <esolangs> [[Fear]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86597&oldid=86595 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+12) make some of the section headers links
11:36:57 <esolangs> [[Fear]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86598&oldid=86597 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+8) Cat Cat program
11:47:30 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86599&oldid=73571 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+235) `rev` is line-wise reversal, the text mentions O(n) so should mention `tac` instead
12:30:53 <esolangs> [[SemicolonHash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86600&oldid=82609 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+131) Categorize
12:33:24 <fizzie> Pretty sure the `rev` example was *meant* for `rev`.
12:35:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86601&oldid=78523 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON]] from "JSON" to "wikitext": Test
12:35:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/contentmodel]] change * PythonshellDebugwindow * PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON]] from "JSON" to "wikitext": Test
12:35:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON]] to [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON2]]: Test
12:36:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON2]] to [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON]] over redirect: Test
12:36:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * PythonshellDebugwindow * PythonshellDebugwindow deleted redirect [[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Esolang:Sandbox/JSON2]]"
12:48:15 <esolangs> [[Cat program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86606&oldid=86599 * Fizzie * (+376) /* Reverse cat */ Pretty sure the rev example was *meant* for rev specifically, because it has only one line of input, and that line is written backwards. And rev too is O(n) for an input that contains no newlines.
13:00:59 <esolangs> [[Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86607&oldid=32154 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Cat
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13:28:21 <esolangs> [[Fear]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86608&oldid=86598 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+1) /* Instructions */ missing period at end of description of `j` instruction
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14:48:14 <Corbin> Is there a classification of composable top-level APIs which can cross languages? Like, the sort of thing needed to build a type system which classifies proglangs as values according to linkage.
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15:22:13 <esolangs> [[Hardfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86609&oldid=52371 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-6) M
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18:09:01 <Melvar> <riv> 𪚥 does this show up for anyone? – Seems to work for me, though it’s too small to actually read.
18:09:11 <riv> i wonder what font that is, i want it
18:09:59 <Melvar> https://i.imgur.com/IdWJBs6.png
18:14:16 <Melvar> If I look at it in gucharmap, it apparently displays it with the font MingLiU-ExtB.
18:17:23 <Melvar> This is apparently in the file mingliu.ttc which is in my user font folder, so I have no idea where I originally got it, unfortunately.
18:19:36 <Melvar> Ah, apparently it’s a Microsoft font that was included with … Vista, I guess.
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18:24:12 <riv> https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/font/mingliu-extb/blocklist.htm good 100%s
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18:24:59 <Melvar> Oh hm, must’ve been updated, since the one I have does not cover Extensions C or D it looks like.
18:25:28 <shachaf> Personally I block all of Latin Extended-B.
18:43:11 <esolangs> [[User:Zing]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86610 * Zing * (+269) Created page with "Hello! I'm new around here but I hope I can contribute more as time passes. ==Langs== [[Back Alley]] = A language where your program can get arrested or jumped. ==Social Thi..."
18:54:53 <esolangs> [[Back Alley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86611&oldid=86579 * Zing * (+47) /* Fizz Buzz */
18:55:27 <esolangs> [[Back Alley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86612&oldid=86611 * Zing * (+1) /* Syntax */
18:55:58 <esolangs> [[Back Alley]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86613&oldid=86612 * Zing * (+1) /* Syntax */
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19:21:17 <esolangs> [[Fear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86614&oldid=86608 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+366) add an implementation i made, and some categories
19:26:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86615&oldid=86578 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+11) /* F */ add [[Fear]]
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21:08:23 <esolangs> [[Unary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86616&oldid=77810 * CosmicMan08 * (+122) Added Hello World.
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22:59:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86617&oldid=69764 * CosmicMan08 * (+86)
23:01:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86618&oldid=86617 * CosmicMan08 * (-9)
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01:22:47 <esolangs> [[Self-Recursive Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86619&oldid=86512 * LarhoCherqi * (+6)
01:23:05 <esolangs> [[Repetition Legitimizes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86620&oldid=86517 * LarhoCherqi * (+6)
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06:35:01 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmfdeWd0RMk
06:35:08 <riv> this was esoterivc
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08:59:17 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86621&oldid=85614 * Dominicentek * (+58) Updated interpreter, which adds new features!
09:00:16 <esolangs> [[A Slow Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86622&oldid=86621 * Dominicentek * (+0) /* Register */
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11:10:03 <esolangs> [[Fear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86623&oldid=86614 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-2) /* Spam console with #s */ --- r (shorter by 2 bytes)
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12:52:55 <fizzie> I'd like to dislike VS Code because it's so mainstream (and I'm not too happy about some of it), but this remote-over-SSH experience is really pretty smooth. :/
13:01:11 <riv> it is good
13:23:56 <esolangs> [[User:Lyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86624&oldid=86420 * Lyxal * (+36)
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15:05:49 <riv> I like the feature to search for a file by name
15:06:15 <riv> if you type in BeaFacMak it will find your file BeanFactoryMaker.java
15:06:34 <riv> it's interesting to think how it is implemented
15:07:00 <riv> it could be done with regex (put .* between each char) but it might be implemented directly too
15:07:38 <riv> you have a haystack list of strings (filenames) and a needle, and you want to find it as a subsequence
15:15:45 <fizzie> That seems to be a common feature in IDEs. It's a thing also in IntelliJ (and presumably other Jetbrains offerings).
15:16:04 <riv> string algs are really cool
15:16:49 <fizzie> It's surprising (to me) how many class names in large Java projects are unique enough just by specifying their uppercase letters. Though I do wonder if they're doing some sort of extra weighting (in terms of proximity to current file or something) to pick up the most relevant matches, too.
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18:47:37 <esolangs> [[Woodchuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86625&oldid=86478 * Rdococ * (+59) /* Introduction */
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19:21:39 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86626&oldid=86554 * Dtuser1337 * (+6)
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19:23:43 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86627&oldid=86052 * Dtuser1337 * (-8) /* MailBox */
19:27:42 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86628&oldid=86627 * Dtuser1337 * (+102) /* Implementations */
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19:27:53 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86629&oldid=86628 * Dtuser1337 * (+3) /* FlinnScrip */
19:58:13 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86630&oldid=86626 * Dtuser1337 * (+41)
19:59:32 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86631&oldid=86630 * Dtuser1337 * (-7) /* Simple Turn-based Game */
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20:02:04 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86632&oldid=86366 * TJC games * (+35)
20:03:12 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86633&oldid=86632 * TJC games * (+0) Category
20:05:30 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86634&oldid=86581 * Dominicentek * (+80) /* Parameter Types */
20:17:31 <esolangs> [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86635&oldid=80046 * Dlosc * (+114) Replaced dead link with current link
20:25:10 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86636&oldid=86629 * Dtuser1337 * (+107)
20:25:20 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86637&oldid=86636 * Dtuser1337 * (-1) /* Maze = */
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20:29:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: that's because Java folks use way too long identiifer names
20:46:04 <int-e> JavaStyleClassIdentifierFactory
20:48:23 <myname> https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition obligatory
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21:39:02 <riv> "Reminder that ()() is not a palindrome but ())( is"
21:39:34 <imode> that makes me mad.
21:41:13 <fizzie> It's like one of those optical illusions.
21:41:31 <fizzie> If you tr/()/ab/ it stops working, just like those often do.
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21:48:57 <int-e> <>< is a fishy palindrome
21:50:28 <Koen_> my gut screems "it's not a palindrome!!" even though it is, because it's so geometric that I'm looking for a symmetry axis rather than equal characters
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21:56:12 <int-e> Koen_: the obvious trick is to reflect it vertically ;)
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21:57:06 <Koen_> a one-line vertical palindrome
22:00:17 <b_jonas> also ()()( is a palindrome
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22:01:15 <int-e> What's the point of :|:| and :||:
22:06:37 <Koen_> do you mean "what are the four points of :|:| and :||:"?
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22:30:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ShopkeeperScratch * New user account
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23:31:08 <nakilon> 00:39:03 <riv> "Reminder that ()() is not a palindrome but ())( is"
23:31:38 <nakilon> this should be in some fast-paced quiz
23:58:01 <esolangs> [[ight]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86638&oldid=86242 * Rphii * (-22062) removal of excessive #'s
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00:35:10 <oerjan> poor mr de morel (in freefall)
00:46:40 <int-e> oerjan: Did you notice that 3*17% is *more* than half...
01:26:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86639&oldid=86573 * ShopkeeperScratch * (+191)
01:27:58 <esolangs> [[User:ShopkeeperScratch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86640 * ShopkeeperScratch * (+33) Created page with "Hi. I'm Scratch. This is my page."
01:51:27 <Melvar> On the search-by-subsequence IDE functionality a screen or two up, I’ve once had the idea for, in a language that allows the same identifier to be in scope from multiple namespaces/modules, and they can be disambiguated by explicitly writing the namespace name as part of the identifier, that the namespace specification should work like this.
01:53:26 <Melvar> That is, in hierarchical namespaces, you only need to specify enough path elements until the name is unambiguous.
01:57:39 <Melvar> That then enables you to namespace aggressively, that is, have a detailed hierarchy, because disambiguation is cheap.
01:58:08 <Melvar> Of course, it has the downside that it’s brittle in the face of adding imports.
02:26:51 <nakilon> since "everything in an object" in Ruby and every code is being evaluated in some scope you often have things redefined during inheritance and mixing
02:28:33 <nakilon> not only methods but also constants and you can omit the "path" and it will invoke the latest definition but you also can do the "disambiguation" by specifying what module you want to look it up in
02:30:35 <nakilon> for example, by default there is "open" but to make sure you call another one you do "IO::open", and if you did the "require 'uri'" now the "open" is from the URI module -- this thing was working what user would expect but has lead to security vulnerabilities, etc.
02:31:48 <nakilon> since Ruby 3.0 it has changed the "open" to "URI.open" in the "shortest snippet to download the file"
02:35:30 <nakilon> about the CVE: https://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/n385aj/cve202131799_a_command_injection_vulnerability_in/
02:41:03 <int-e> this loopy type is so error prone for me... https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#5x3t13dh#676867971765414
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02:48:32 <esolangs> [[TextGarbage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86641&oldid=86634 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+0) /* See also */ use spaces in page link instead of underscores
03:11:51 <zzo38> If some bits in a file don't matter, is there a algorithm that is fast enough and simple enough that can guess what values of those bits are good for improving a DEFLATE compression of that file?
03:23:52 <zzo38> I suppose that there is two considerations, being Huffman and LZ77. But compression may also use multiple blocks, which have their own Huffman codes.
03:36:16 <nakilon> why won't you store the file compressed without those bits and the map of "insertions" that you'll apply after decompression
03:38:12 <zzo38> nakilon: If you are using your own compression then it can work, but if you have to use DEFLATE then that won't do
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07:00:07 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86642&oldid=86423 * Rdococ * (-53) /* Computational class */
07:01:41 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86643&oldid=86642 * Rdococ * (+162)
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07:21:53 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86644&oldid=86643 * Rdococ * (-288)
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07:52:37 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86645&oldid=86644 * Rdococ * (+616) /* Computational class */
07:52:56 <riv> Ive been reading a book about entropy
07:52:58 <Melvar> nakilon: The stuff you’re describing only applies in a language where namespaces can be mutated at runtime, doesn’t it?
07:52:59 <riv> it's really good
07:53:10 <riv> much more mathematical approach to data compression than I have seen before
07:53:25 <riv> we get theorems about how compression is hard limited by entropy
07:53:57 <riv> and by increasing block size and allowing a small tolerance of unencodable blocks you can get extremely good compression
07:54:03 <riv> if the distribution has some bias
07:54:17 <riv> bcause blocks amplify the bias massively
07:59:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Hyperspace]] to [[Hyperspace (Archived)]]: please kill me
07:59:39 <esolangs> [[Hyperspace (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86648&oldid=86646 * Rdococ * (-19)
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08:01:06 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ/Old]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86649&oldid=86062 * Rdococ * (+44) /* Badder ones */
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08:10:15 <esolangs> [[QWOP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86650&oldid=52806 * Rdococ * (-28) /* Computational Class */
08:13:51 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86651&oldid=86459 * Rdococ * (+184)
08:14:36 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86652&oldid=86651 * Rdococ * (+0)
09:07:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dominicentek * uploaded "[[File:Truth Machine.png]]"
09:08:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dominicentek * uploaded "[[File:Cat Program.png]]"
09:13:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dominicentek * uploaded "[[File:Hello World.png]]"
09:14:48 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86656 * Dominicentek * (+3182) Created page with "MCBlocks is a three dimensional esoteric programming language created by [[User:Dominicentek]]. It's code is written as a build in a [https://www.minecraft.net Minecraft] worl..."
09:15:38 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86657&oldid=86656 * Dominicentek * (+23)
09:16:34 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86658&oldid=86615 * Dominicentek * (+15) /* M */
09:33:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86659&oldid=86596 * Dominicentek * (+24)
09:36:30 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86660&oldid=86631 * Dtuser1337 * (+128)
09:42:25 <esolangs> [[FlinnScrip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86661&oldid=86660 * Dtuser1337 * (+13) /* Function Commands */
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10:35:11 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86662&oldid=86449 * Dominicentek * (-175) Removed a note since it's not a case now
10:49:00 <esolangs> [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86663&oldid=86637 * Dtuser1337 * (+367)
11:13:28 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86664&oldid=68468 * Matthilde * (+170) added implementation
11:13:58 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86665&oldid=86664 * Matthilde * (-42) realised there is no strikethrought
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13:13:34 <esolangs> [[ight]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86667&oldid=86638 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) Start of the
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14:10:08 <HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1241.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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14:22:55 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86669&oldid=86657 * TwilightSparkle * (+31) Also, nice work!
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16:25:55 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck, but every + is replaced with the bee movie script]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86671&oldid=86665 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (-6) /* Implementations */ using using using
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16:43:00 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86672&oldid=86652 * Rdococ * (+46)
16:43:12 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86673&oldid=86672 * Rdococ * (+15) lowercase
16:43:23 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86674&oldid=86673 * Rdococ * (-1)
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19:38:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * WheatWizard2 * New user account
19:41:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86676&oldid=86639 * WheatWizard2 * (+176) /* Introductions */
19:46:29 <esolangs> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86677&oldid=54912 * WheatWizard2 * (+220) /* Hello World */ New short hello world.
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20:53:14 <riv> regarding the question about unused bits
20:53:24 <riv> the worst thing you can possibly do is make them random
20:53:32 <riv> so I think setting them all to 0 will be quite good
20:53:40 <riv> and setting them all to 1 might be better, might be slightly worse
20:53:55 <riv> I wouldn't recommend trying to figure for each bit, whether 1 or 0 would help compression
20:54:08 <riv> I think that would be extremely computationally difficult and not have much benefit
21:08:51 <Melvar> The most preferable thing would probably be to find an assignment that maximizes repetition in the data.
21:11:31 <Melvar> In principle you could replicate a deflate algorithm but with all matching of bits replaced such that irrelevant bits always match. I believe that this is a greedy algorithm, not always optimal, but it may give useful results anyway.
21:18:10 <Corbin> Compressors are predictors, right? So maybe just let those bits be whatever the predictor was going to guess.
21:18:41 <riv> theoretically that is a great idea
21:18:54 <riv> but i don't know if it can be implemented wrt DEFLATE
21:39:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nitrogen Dioxide * New user account
21:44:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86678&oldid=86676 * Nitrogen Dioxide * (+256) nitrogendioxide
21:48:24 <zzo38> With only Huffman, ignoring LZ77 and block splitting, it is easy, but DEFLATE involves all three. With LZ77, the data is also recorded for future reference, as well as being able to reference past data, so the data goes both ways. Compression software could include a option to specify a mask file, and handle it according to whatever compression algorithm it is using.
21:53:28 <esolangs> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86679&oldid=86677 * WheatWizard2 * (+186) /* Hello World */ I broke the record right after I edited it into the article.
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22:33:48 <esolangs> [[User:Lyxal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86680&oldid=86675 * Lyxal * (+67)
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23:02:48 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Dominicentek * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Hello World.png]]"
23:04:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Dominicentek * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Cat Program.png]]"
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23:07:07 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86683&oldid=86669 * Dominicentek * (+54) Added interpreter
23:08:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] revert * Dominicentek * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Hello World.png]]": Reverted to version as of 09:13, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
23:09:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] revert * Dominicentek * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Hello World.png]]": Reverted to version as of 23:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
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01:38:27 <int-e> hmm https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#12x10t1dh#215082649470581 felt difficult (for the type)
01:44:56 <nakilon> solving on desktop feels so different from mobile
01:45:09 <nakilon> where you just tap again, not "right click"
01:45:16 <nakilon> or "two fingers" on trackpad
01:49:26 <esolangs> [[Position]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86686 * WreckingGames * (+1333) Created page with "[[Position]] is a stack-based esolang created by [[User:WreckingGames|WreckingGames]], where almost every important command changes depending on its position in the code. ==..."
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02:22:47 <oerjan> also done, assuming you're talking about int-e's game
02:23:25 <oerjan> no big problems, but there was a point where i needed several countings of crossings around a region one after the other
02:48:22 <int-e> tbf I wouldn't expect any *big* problems from any of these puzzles
02:56:34 <oerjan> for that, we'd need tatham to start using NP-completeness to translate factoring problems :)
02:57:02 <oerjan> although those puzzles would probably look unnatural
02:58:40 <oerjan> i suppose one might try to develop an NP reduction that created natural looking ones
03:27:39 <nakilon> alright, I'll get the seed from my phone where it sits for probably 2-3 years already
03:28:39 <nakilon> I'm rarely in trips to continue solving it but I suppose you won't say there is no *big* problems in it )
03:35:50 <nakilon> https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#10x10t7dh#363752026185553
03:40:00 <int-e> that's kind of big though
03:44:59 <nakilon> yeah, probably 2 times bigger area, it's not default
04:26:21 <oerjan> ok i do feel a bit stalled for the moment
04:55:21 <Melvar> I did get stuck for a while a few times.
04:57:12 <oerjan> i was stuck until a moment ago, then i found something, but i'm not sure it leads to much more
05:38:26 <riv> https://krazydad.com/play/area51/ these hybrid puzzles are cool
05:53:33 <nakilon> idk how Melvar did it in 80 min, I started over and I'm far below 50$
05:56:53 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86687&oldid=86392 * KakkoiiChris * (-513) Simplified Hello World example
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06:13:16 <Melvar> I think I only started after oerjan said they felt stalled.
06:13:48 <Melvar> Idk might have been hyperfocus might have been luck.
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06:21:55 <nakilon> maybe you clicked another link? ..D
06:24:02 <Melvar> My browser’s address bar definitely contains the one from six posts above my “Solved.”.
06:25:17 * oerjan still stalled but took a break
06:25:45 <oerjan> (still taking a break)
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09:31:20 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86688&oldid=86683 * Dominicentek * (+65)
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12:05:25 <esolangs> [[LCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86689 * Nitrogen Dioxide * (+2255) Created page with "{{stub}} '''LCode''' (aka LoserCode) is a "coding language" made by [[User:Nitrogen_Dioxide]] as a joke. The "official" interpreter is made in C#. The interpreter accepts any..."
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13:51:11 <int-e> Well.. one power outage later it's solved. I did have to restart a couple of times because of mistakes though :-/
13:51:33 <int-e> (I slept a bit, too)
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14:26:37 <int-e> fungot: Which loopy type are you? Left (likes to prove uniqueness) or right (exploits uniqueness)? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/uloopy.png
14:26:37 <fungot> int-e: using sisc you can customize on it a bit more difficult, but possible. have you tried noctis? http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ main_page
14:35:26 <int-e> And here's an actual (constructed) puzzle that contains this pattern: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#4x4t0:2b1c0b3d3
14:36:14 <int-e> Though it's obviously not a hard one :)
14:38:23 <Taneb> int-e: I feel there's a third category, "does not care about uniqueness, just wants to find any solution"
14:38:41 <Taneb> But I don't know if they differ from the exploits uniqueness category in practice
14:39:07 <Taneb> Maybe they're more willing to make guesses
14:39:20 <int-e> Oh it can be fit into a 3x3 puzzle: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#3x3t0:2a1b1b3
14:40:03 <int-e> Taneb: Yeah I guess the best solvers are actually good at quick forced conclusions *and* at fixing mistakes
14:41:19 <int-e> I usually start over when I find a mistake unless it was a very recent one (so I can pinpoint where I went wrong, exactly)
14:43:20 <Taneb> I try to maintain very clean undo history (not easy on a small touch screen) and then if I find a mistake I try to find it
14:43:26 <Taneb> Although sometimes I just restart
14:45:31 <int-e> (That level encoding is kind of dual to PEN: PEN does RLE with digits, and uses letters for the occupied squares; this format does RLE with letters and uses digits for the occupied squares...)
14:50:18 <esolangs> [[Maybebat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86690 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+328) Created page with "maybebat - esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] in batch and it is Turing Complete! ==Examples== ===[[Hello, World!]]=== print[maybe];hello, world! wait[button] ==Exterenal..."
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14:52:43 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86691&oldid=86142 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+26)
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16:59:51 <fizzie> I think I wouldn't mind a feature in the puzzle interface that can add (labeled?) snapshots, just because sometimes it's easier to think through consequences if you can click to visualize them. But I'm always afraid I would forget how far back to unroll if I do that.
17:00:47 <riv> yes labelled snapshots would be excellent
17:00:59 <fizzie> What I've been doing instead is, add something that's obviously wrong (i.e., turns red) in some other corner of the puzzle, then do the speculative clicking, and then when it's time to roll back just click on undo enough to make the red thing go away.
17:19:35 <Melvar> int-e: This type: https://i.imgur.com/eXhIM7U.png
17:51:53 <Corbin> Ugh, I need to implement e-graphs again. Not sure if I want to use OCaml or jq.
17:54:34 <Corbin> jq is much better at manipulating untyped string-tagged data, but OCaml would make it easier to implement the union-find data structure.
17:54:50 <Corbin> Has anybody else done the e-graph adventure? It's hard.
18:04:03 <int-e> Hmm, silly puzzle that the solver can't solve ;-) https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#3x3t0:0a0c0a0
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21:52:56 <esolangs> [[Betaload]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86692&oldid=57118 * Challenger5 * (+3) fix implementation link
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23:08:31 <oren> interesting type problem: is there a programming language in which, for a type B and a generic type A<T>, A<any> is a supertype of A<B>
23:08:53 <oren> or in which it can be stated that that is the case?
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23:27:41 <int-e> If A is a functor then you can lift the injection map T -> any to A<T> -> A<any>. So that is the kind of structure you need...
23:35:16 <b_jonas> oren: uh, I think java and maybe rust has at least some basic conception of which parametrized types have covariant or contravariant type argument
23:35:51 <b_jonas> but I'm not sure what you mean by `any` in that
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23:46:16 <nakilon> these should banned from unicode https://i.imgur.com/1H6Njay.png
00:11:29 <oren> god damn it pedro
00:12:43 <nakilon> his username is 64 chars long, can you believe it
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00:35:18 <oerjan> <int-e> fungot: Which loopy type are you? Left (likes to prove uniqueness) or right (exploits uniqueness)? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/uloopy.png <-- eep. definitely left.
00:35:18 <fungot> oerjan: what is stalin?. i don't even know how to fix that stupid fnord. i'v define a hash function h: k z/ m ( which means that you have a while() instruction
00:35:40 <oerjan> fungot: i was _not_ playing jeopardy, but nice try
00:35:40 <fungot> oerjan: that paper about feeley's operators. fun fun fun. :) i do need to put our weight behind supporting an esolang.
00:36:15 <int-e> oerjan: I'm the same, but I can appreciate that the right way (hah) would be faster.
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00:37:16 <int-e> (I do consider these things though when trying to decide which of two options to attempt to refute first)
00:37:41 <oerjan> although i _may_ on occasion exploit uniqueness to determine ... right what you said
00:38:11 <oerjan> although not very often in practice
00:40:49 <oerjan> <int-e> I usually start over when I find a mistake unless it was a very recent one (so I can pinpoint where I went wrong, exactly) <-- i've been known to backtrack all the way to the beginning because i _missed_ where i made a mistake, and then go forward again until i find it.
00:42:30 <oerjan> if i still fail, i may be frustrated enough to just close the puzzle.
00:43:26 <oerjan> (also, usually when that backward/forward thing happens, it turns out the mistake was near the end.)
00:43:28 <int-e> sensible, this is all a huge waste of time :P ;) :-/
00:45:03 <int-e> I'm still refining patterns... learning how to account for nodes with degree larger than 4 was a challenge (more so than smaller degrees or having regions with more than 4 sides)
00:46:04 <oerjan> Maybebat reminds that i was out watching bats on the lawn a while ago, there were at least 4 of them
00:47:06 <int-e> context... oh, 8 hours ago...
00:47:21 <oerjan> the context wasn't really important in this case
00:48:00 <int-e> (yes, it confused me, but that happens all the time anyway)
00:48:25 <int-e> I don't recall ever seeing a bat in nature...
00:48:43 <int-e> I occasionally meet hedgehogs when walking outside at night
00:51:17 <oerjan> i also meet hedgehogs, although not as often as bats
00:51:50 <oerjan> i actually only saw a hedgehog twice this year
00:52:16 <oerjan> the other day i saw a badger. they supposedly eat hedgehogs.
00:52:54 <oerjan> (the badger was running across a heavily trafficed road, which is a bit unusual.
00:53:24 <fizzie> I used to see a hedgehog from the window of the previous flat, but can't see any from here. :/
00:53:31 <oerjan> last year i saw many more hedgehogs, but i also spent a lot more time outside because i was having that long internet break
00:53:40 <fizzie> There's been a fox skulking around the streetwalk for the three previous nights though.
00:54:01 <oerjan> i've seen foxes run along the railway just below the lawn
00:54:19 <fizzie> Oh, yes, they do also use the railways.
00:54:55 <fizzie> Queenstown Road station has one disused platform (it's all overgrown, and says "do not alight here"), and there was a fox curled up on the platform quite often when I was still commuting.
00:56:06 <int-e> Hmm apparently there is a bat colony a couple of miles away... but probably still too far to be a common sight for me. But who knows, maybe I'm just not paying attention.
00:56:07 <oerjan> it was only last year that i even noticed there _were_ bats in trondheim, i wonder if they've immigrated recently.
00:56:41 <fizzie> I imagine bats can be pretty stealthy.
00:57:00 <int-e> It's a city with few ruins/old buildings... not a great area for bats.
00:57:46 <int-e> (The colony is a city-owned church; they deliberately left the habitat intact rather than renovating it all)
01:01:13 <fizzie> I don't think London's particularly renowed for bats either.
01:01:47 <fizzie> Think there's a dedicated bat tower in the wetland centre a little that way though.
01:02:50 <fizzie> "The nocturnal habits of bats make them intrinsically difficult for human observers to study. In Greater London, those interested in discovering more on the ecology and conservation status of bats face additional obstacles." That's what Richard from the London Bat Group says.
01:02:55 <oerjan> i don't know about towers here, i sort of assumed they rested in the nearby forest but maybe bats don't like that
01:02:56 <fizzie> Just to be clear, I think the London Bat Group is a group of *people* interested in bats, not a group of bats.
01:03:13 <keegan> we can't stop here............ this is bat country
01:06:39 <oerjan> the time of the year when i see bats is pretty much the time of the year when it doesn't _get_ really dark here, from just after sunset or so.
01:07:02 <fizzie> The brown long-eared bat is brown, and has long ears.
01:08:22 <oerjan> the ones i see look pretty black, also small. i haven't seen them clearly enough to check for ears.
01:10:27 <int-e> oerjan: that twilight aspect makes a lot of sense
01:11:10 <nakilon> it's the same about some bird, such swallows
01:11:19 <oerjan> nakilon: they flutter in a way no birds seem to do (well, around here.)
01:11:33 <nakilon> in the evening they start doing parties in yards
01:12:11 <oerjan> there are swallows too, which are easy to see right _before_ sunset. and occasionally a little later, competing with the bats.
01:12:18 <nakilon> I was told it's because the temperature and/or pressure makes insects, such as mosquitos activate and fly low so they hunt them
01:12:40 <nakilon> oerjan that was a joke to the last fizzie's statement
01:13:05 <oerjan> it is possible the bats start a little before too.
01:13:53 <nakilon> I also was told when the swallows fly around if you throw a stone in the air it will try to eat it and kill itself
01:14:26 <oerjan> i haven't heard that one
01:16:16 <oerjan> also, "swallow" is a rough term here, they might technically be one of the other kinds of similar looking birds which i learned existed from wikipedia.
01:16:38 <oerjan> but the bats are definitely different.
01:22:30 <nakilon> > Our observations are consistent with the hypothesis that flight activity of bats is constrained by predation in bright light, and that crepuscular insects exploit this constraint by swarming near to sunset/sunrise to minimize predation from bats.
01:22:32 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:74: error: parse error on input ‘of’
01:22:36 <nakilon> https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.172303
01:29:15 <Sgeo> Windows96.net exists. Reminds me of YouOS.
01:31:06 <int-e> No windows69.net though
01:32:51 <nakilon> I've just observed the sunrise from the first second
01:33:38 <nakilon> the sun isn't yet fully shown, since it's 2 min per disc but it's going not vertically but 60 degrees to the right
01:34:20 <nakilon> it's cool how it's possible to see where the sun will appear from the light pink spot on the sky right above a minute before it
01:34:32 <oren> yeah the sun only rises straight up if you live on the equator
01:37:29 <zzo38> Between the tropics the Sun can go directly above (zenith)
01:37:40 <zzo38> (Although, I have not seen it myself; I have not been there)
01:41:48 <nakilon> it's when the shadows disappear?
01:42:56 <Sgeo> Windows96 has developer documentation. YouOS had developer documentation. Is Windows93 documented for people to make their own mini apps?
01:49:59 <int-e> oren: well, anywhere in the tropics, depending on the time of year
01:53:36 <nakilon> if you aren'y on equator the sun rises with the angle no matter which time of year it is
01:54:19 <int-e> nah, it'll rise vertically at equinox
01:54:33 <zzo38> In the tropic of Cancer, it will zenith if the ecliptic longitude is 0 Cancer, and similarly for Capricorn. The declination will then be the tropics, too. When the Sun zeniths then it will be called cruel solar noon
01:54:41 <nakilon> the black lines on the (3) part of this picture: https://i.imgur.com/Eec618c.png
01:54:44 <int-e> it won't rise due east though, it'll be off by 23.4 degrees
01:55:22 <int-e> (so that's the dimension where the earth's inclination goes)
01:55:44 <zzo38> At the equinox, it willb e zenith at the equator
01:55:56 <int-e> zzo38: only at noon
01:57:01 <int-e> (it's relevant nonetheless; in first approximation the sun's patht that day will be a great circle through the zenith, so it'll hit the horizon at a right angle)
01:57:56 <nakilon> at equinox it will only be rising and falling on the opposite points on the horizons, the angle will not be vertical if you aren't on equator
01:58:44 <nakilon> the time of year does not change the angle, it only shifts the sun path circle
01:59:25 <int-e> nakilon: Note that we have connected "sun reaches zenith" to "sun rises vertically" so that happens in all the tropics
01:59:48 <int-e> so no, "<nakilon> if you aren'y on equator the sun rises with the angle no matter which time of year it is" isn't right
02:00:18 <nakilon> there is no connection between ability of the sun to reach the very top point above your head and rising vertically
02:00:49 <int-e> Of course there is.
02:01:38 <nakilon> there is no. at equator it always rises vertically but reached the top only in spring and winter
02:02:15 <nakilon> and at tropics it's always angled but reached the top once a year
02:04:00 <oerjan> int-e: i am not sure you are correct about the great circle thing
02:05:02 <oerjan> zenith means the sun is direct overhead, but if you're not on the equator that is _not_ a spot on the celestial equator that the sky revolves along
02:05:10 <int-e> Yeah I am picturing this wrong.
02:07:25 <oerjan> although i don't have a clear enough picture to tell if nakilon is right either
02:08:25 <nakilon> there was someone here who had a course of astronomy
02:09:29 <oren> the sun doesn't move in a great circle in the sky
02:09:53 <oren> it only moves in a great circle on the equinox
02:09:54 <int-e> Okay, nakilon is right; the point is that the projection of tghe pole (astronomical north/south) is the center of the circle, and that needs to be on the horizon. Sigh.
02:10:05 <zzo38> Maybe you can try to calculate it using some software, you can convert ecliptic or equatorial coordinates to horizontal coordinates and plot the result (I think Astrolog might be able to do this)
02:10:43 <int-e> (the "circle" being the virtual trajectory of the Sun)
02:10:45 <nakilon> at equinox the sun angle from the vertical is equal to your location latitude, then both the winter and summer are making the angle less vertical
02:11:02 <oren> https://physics.weber.edu/schroeder/ua/SunOnCelestialSphere.png
02:11:32 <nakilon> because at equinox you are at the center of the sinus wave, while winter and summer are shifting you up and down
02:12:55 <nakilon> oren nice find! repeats the (3)
02:18:34 <int-e> oerjan: Yeah the great circles were the key mistake... it's only a great circle at equinox. Oh well. I probably should've known.
02:24:16 * oerjan finally found something trivial he'd missed in nakilon's loopy puzzle, now i'm making progress again
02:24:47 <oerjan> it was a loop line touching a 3
02:30:08 <nakilon> when I was solving it yesterday I basically made the same progress I made on mobile -- it's mainly about right bottom side
02:31:07 <nakilon> hmmmm I wonder if I apply the min filter to the screenshot
02:35:02 <oerjan> right bottom is the most solved part for me to, and my recent find expanded it greatly
02:35:34 <oerjan> (including much of the middle bottom now)
02:35:46 <nakilon> hm, numbers make a black mess
02:38:58 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/Btza1kO.png
02:39:45 <nakilon> I wish vips had circular rank mask
02:58:16 <fizzie> Heh, that fox was out there again, looking into a garbage bin.
02:58:26 <fizzie> Seems like 3-4am is its standard time for the rounds.
03:08:16 <nakilon> is it a correct assumption that loopy puzzle can't have more than one solution?
03:15:16 <oerjan> hm i found a uniqueness exploiting spot
03:16:01 <oerjan> there might be a flag for it, some puzzles have that
03:16:30 <oerjan> but afair all except blackbox are unique by default
03:16:38 <oerjan> well untangled also may not count
03:17:35 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/2cHXbPs.png
03:17:58 <oerjan> i'm not looking at your pictures until i solve it (or give up) :P
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05:13:24 * nakilon still does not understand how Melvar did it
05:31:47 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86693&oldid=86687 * KakkoiiChris * (+23019) Added syntax highlighting to the 99 bottles example program
06:02:56 <Sgeo> Windows96 does not use iFrames. AaronOS does use iFrames and some helper Javascript, which is how I would envision a secure YouOS-like web thingy to work
06:06:19 <nakilon> there should be a docker image with OS that has only programs written in esoteric languages
06:06:56 <nakilon> are there any self-compiling esoteric languages? that won't need some C in the first place
06:07:38 <nakilon> not sure if it should be unix-like
06:08:58 <nakilon> of course it should better be able to work with internet network though this thing is probably not implemented in any esolang purely yet
06:09:15 <nakilon> IIRC even Temple OS didn't have internet
06:16:34 <nakilon> or maybe at least an OS with some predefined borderline between the minimal part that had to be done in usual way to made the rest of the OS be possible to be made in esolangs
06:17:28 <nakilon> possibly including the preinstalled runtimes to interpret the esolangs VMs
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06:19:37 <nakilon> so the end OS user would be only allowed to run his stuff using the prebuilt esolang runtimes
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06:20:47 <nakilon> I'm still not sure about shell -- is it unneeded at all or should it be premade too
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10:48:37 <nakilon> processing some leaked dump of Telegram channels found the channel "ethiopiaPoem"
10:49:48 <nakilon> I even see the rythm, lol; there should be an esolang with these letters
10:51:06 <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge%CA%BDez_script
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14:11:25 <int-e> anyone remember this game: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/2k.png ...
14:12:12 <spruit11> yah. tried it a few times but wasn't good at it
14:12:18 <fizzie> The thing that had a lot of controversy about stealing the idea from Threes?
14:12:35 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threes#Legacy
14:12:50 <int-e> Heh I only remember the dozens of variants
14:13:44 <int-e> ...that screenshot is so disorderly
14:15:19 <nakilon> what annoys me more is that people forget there are 4 spawning
14:15:31 <nakilon> on Android there are only 2 and they get higher score
14:15:44 <nakilon> but I don't care though about their score, but
14:18:22 <nakilon> when it was added to codingame.com they didn't give a fuck to implemented it correctly https://github.com/eulerscheZahl/2048/issues/1
14:25:11 <int-e> Hmm. I don't remember what the highest value tile I've ever made was...
14:26:09 <int-e> I wouldn't change the gameplay of a 6-7 year old game either.
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18:16:08 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86694&oldid=86693 * KakkoiiChris * (+4847) /* 99 bottles of beer */ Added line numbers
18:16:42 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86695&oldid=86694 * KakkoiiChris * (+6) /* Hello, world! */ Changed line number color
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18:40:14 <HackEso> The password of the month is tempting in retrospect
18:40:56 <int-e> Time for a password of the month retrospective
18:41:53 <arseniiv> did we skip a month or is it just my memory?
18:44:06 <int-e> The last skip was a year ago, August 2020.
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18:57:53 <arseniiv> I thought I came up with a good one recently but then I forgot to write it down
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19:14:14 <zzo38> How many other people on here do programming in PostScript, anyways?
19:28:58 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86696&oldid=86695 * KakkoiiChris * (+18444) /* Example Programs */ Added 99 Bottles with Gosubs Example
19:37:49 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86697&oldid=86696 * KakkoiiChris * (+931) /* Hello, world! */ Readded header comment
19:45:07 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86698&oldid=86697 * KakkoiiChris * (+3712) /* Truth-machine */ Added syntax highlighting
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19:56:30 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86699&oldid=86698 * KakkoiiChris * (+4910) /* Cat program */ Added syntax highlighting
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20:45:49 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86700&oldid=86699 * KakkoiiChris * (+2637) /* Wait */ Added syntax highlighting
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21:04:53 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86701&oldid=86700 * KakkoiiChris * (+11) Added links section
21:19:17 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86702&oldid=86701 * KakkoiiChris * (+300) /* Links */ Added relevant links and categories
21:34:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: I wrote one postscript program, http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/catalan.ps , and I doubt I'll write another
21:39:17 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmfdeWd0RMk i might have linked this already, but a very funny good video (SI unit type stuff)
21:48:38 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86703&oldid=86702 * KakkoiiChris * (+45059) /* Example Programs */ Added brainfuck example program
21:56:20 <zzo38> b_jonas: OK. (But I wonder if there are other people on here who do any others)
21:56:37 <riv> i once wrote a postscript thing to make a certain fractal
21:56:42 <riv> havent really used it other than that
21:57:46 <zzo38> What kind of fractal?
21:58:10 <riv> a circle within circles
21:58:18 <riv> like the appolonian gasket
21:59:42 <zzo38> Today I tried to make a "PC Encoding" file for PostScript; most of the characters work, but a few of them don't work; I don't know if that is because they are not included in the font or because I put in something wrong.
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23:35:08 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86704&oldid=86703 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-51) /* Links */) (Remove non-categories) (Imperative, Deterministic
23:38:14 <esolangs> [[Maurice Ling]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86705&oldid=60586 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Link to userpage
23:39:14 <esolangs> [[Maurice Ling]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86706&oldid=86705 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) com -> io
01:43:28 <lambdabot> error: Data constructor not in scope: PostScript
01:43:40 <nakilon> there should be GetScript and PutScript
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01:54:12 <oerjan> whee! finally solved that dread loopy puzzle!
01:56:19 <oerjan> <int-e> anyone remember this game: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/2k.png <-- yep!
01:56:31 <oerjan> the end of that loopy puzzle was a bit fascinating.
01:57:33 <oerjan> for a long time i'd only solved the bottom left completely, but there were many other separate regions where i gradually got information, but which seemed to stay in superposition of 2 or 3 options :)
01:57:41 <int-e> did it go clockwise starting in the top right?
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01:58:05 <int-e> hmm. that's a no, I guess
01:58:20 <oerjan> it was nakilon's puzzle in case that's not clear
01:58:51 <int-e> That's what I thought.
01:59:21 <oerjan> also, there was this spot i'd noticed in the middle right (and mentioned yesterday) which had a plausible uniqueness exploitation almost like the one you linked
01:59:34 <nakilon> oerjannow you can safely check the screenshots )
02:00:01 <oerjan> and finally, i got to the point where a counting argument connected that to something else in the upper right
02:00:36 <nakilon> do you mean the horizontal line section that could be joined to bottom and top only once?
02:00:58 <oerjan> so i chased it across the upper right until it reached the large near-island in the upper left
02:01:12 <nakilon> I thought about it and that's why I asked the question about do puzzles have to have a single solution, but then I've found something elsewhere in the bottom right and it solved the thing without the exploit
02:02:06 <oerjan> which showed how that island connected to the rest. and then i traced that information from both connection points - until i found a trivial contradiction near the middle left border
02:03:36 <oerjan> and once that trivial contradiction had been used, the _entire board unraveled with only simple rules_
02:03:54 <oerjan> so it was, as usual, something simple i had missed for a long time
02:05:20 <oerjan> (the lower left took a little longer to unravel than the rest, but only because the board was zoomed so large i couldn't see all the large loop parts instantly)
02:06:52 <nakilon> on the lower left I did several mistakes and had to backtrace a lot, but the solution was somewhere in the very middle, where when you enable one line it would make the cycle of 3 and once you disable it it starts solving down and then left
02:07:17 <oerjan> nakilon: it was sort of horizontal section with a diamond between, if that's what you mean
02:07:37 <nakilon> oerjan it was like 4 horizontal lines connected
02:07:45 <nakilon> to the right from center and maybe 1 up
02:08:32 <oerjan> argh let me see if i can find it without backtracking everything
02:09:13 <nakilon> this https://i.imgur.com/x9phtJ7.png
02:12:30 <oerjan> it was further down and to the right
02:13:01 <nakilon> once in the upper right I used to solve a portion of trying both enable and disable one line
02:13:20 <nakilon> then I screenshoted both results and applied what was common
02:14:34 <nakilon> if I was making an AI I would use this trick
02:14:52 <oerjan> i did try similar things (without screenshotting)
02:15:08 <nakilon> it kind of makes possible to solve further moves before solving the current one
02:17:27 <oerjan> it wasn't exactly horizontal, now i've looked at it
02:18:35 <nakilon> I now wonder if the trick could be applied to other things I was solving earlier
02:21:47 <nakilon> I feel like it should be somewhere on this wiki but the closest I've found right now is https://www.chessprogramming.org/Killer_Heuristic
02:21:57 <nakilon> though in chess the order matters
02:21:59 <oerjan> ok your screenshots were indeed not very spoilery :P
02:22:20 <oerjan> the last one looked a bit similar to my endgame
02:22:31 <oerjan> with bottom left remaining
02:30:07 <oerjan> <riv> i once wrote a postscript thing to make a certain fractal <-- hm i vaguely recall doing mandelbrot in postscript, on an actual printer. but it was only black and white and i think it was dog slow.
02:30:18 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86707&oldid=86704 * KakkoiiChris * (+15700) /* brainfuck */ Added syntax highlighting
02:30:45 <oerjan> although i might be misremembering whether i actually wrote the program myself
02:31:50 <oerjan> if i did, it was the most interesting postscript program i wrote directly
02:32:22 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86708&oldid=86707 * KakkoiiChris * (+60) /* Links */ Added GitHub repository link
02:32:56 <oerjan> i suppose mandelbrot is a bad fractal to choose if you want to use postscript's rendering strengths :P
02:36:14 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86709&oldid=86708 * KakkoiiChris * (+126) /* brainfuck */ Added implementation note to top
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03:04:48 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86710&oldid=86438 * Spargle * (+194) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
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04:04:51 <pikhq> sounds like a fun challenge though
04:30:35 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86711&oldid=86709 * KakkoiiChris * (+8147) /* About */ Elaborated on the description of Minim, and added a brief history of the language's syntax
04:31:46 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86712&oldid=86711 * KakkoiiChris * (-12) /* History */ Removed one layer of nesting from the History section
04:32:55 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86713&oldid=86712 * KakkoiiChris * (+24) /* History */ Added separators between each version
04:39:00 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86714&oldid=85173 * KakkoiiChris * (+139) /* Normal implementations */ Added link to Minim implementation example program
04:43:05 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86715&oldid=86569 * KakkoiiChris * (+3467) /* Minim */ Added syntax highlighting
04:47:56 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86716&oldid=86715 * KakkoiiChris * (+0) /* Implementations */ Fixed alphabetical ordering of Minim
04:50:30 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86717&oldid=86716 * KakkoiiChris * (-1288) /* Minim */ Removed line numbers and header comment
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06:43:28 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86718 * Ch44d * (+19399) Add backrooms
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07:19:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * KakkoiiChris * uploaded "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]"
07:26:09 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86720&oldid=86718 * Ch44d * (+171) fix formatting problems and add more rule info.
07:32:11 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86721&oldid=86713 * KakkoiiChris * (+380) Added logo and info box to top
07:37:06 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86722&oldid=86721 * KakkoiiChris * (+7) Moved infobox and logo
07:43:33 <nakilon> is there anything like a CLI that would find the most common substrings? like some debug info for compression algorithms
07:44:10 <nakilon> I would apply it to the problem I want to solve -- finding the meaningful substrings in an array of strings
07:44:44 <nakilon> such as... #haskell #haskell_de #learnhaskell should tell me that "there is probably a word 'haskell'"
07:45:21 <nakilon> it's important to not say that "haske is probably a word"
07:45:48 <nakilon> no matter that this substring is even more common, it's not a full word
07:46:46 <nakilon> I've coded some thing, ran it for an hour or two and then saw the results aren't good; I'm missing something
07:47:48 <nakilon> for example, even if there are haskell_es and haskell_en it should not be confused to think that there is a word haskell_e
07:48:20 <nakilon> my approach was going down from the longest substrings and this became a flaw
07:50:08 <riv> that sounds like an interesting problem
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07:50:55 <riv> the problem with running LZW on it and then checking frequency in the dictionary is it wouldn't respect word boundaries
07:51:12 <riv> but maybe you could do a modified version that does respect word boundaries
07:52:20 <nakilon> there should be some euristic
07:52:46 <nakilon> something that human intuitively applies to find the common words in such arrays
07:52:53 <riv> i dont know how humans do it
07:53:23 <riv> maybe it could be done with common pairs, 'ha' happens a lot, 'as' happens a lot
08:00:40 <myname> i'd say, strings that end at a word boundary probably are ends of words
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08:03:56 <nakilon> it should find the ends when substrings are concatenated, the '_' is rarely used in my data
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14:16:53 <int-e> "virtualenv" is such a presumptious command name
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14:22:07 <int-e> (python3 -m venv otoh is a bit too obscure)
14:22:40 <fizzie> Reminds me of some other tools where the Debian packages have had to rename the binaries because of excessive genericity. But I can't remember the examples.
14:22:48 <fizzie> "code" is a little bit in that direction.
14:23:15 <wib_jonas> fizzie: "nc". there are two or three versions of netcat, and one norton commander clone with "nc" as the name. and there are some more besides that.
14:23:40 <wib_jonas> I don't recall the others right now
14:23:47 <wib_jonas> I think there were two things called "rename" at some point
14:24:18 <wib_jonas> and it gets worse with clashes with windows commands: "find", "convert", "head" cause common conflicts
14:24:21 <int-e> fizzie: I remember the fight over the 'git' package name and that's not even a common word (though it is a word)
14:24:49 <int-e> Oh yeah, the Northern Commander
14:25:15 <wib_jonas> "find" and "type" are the same style of clash: they both have an ancient DOS meaning (grep and cat respectively) and an ancient unix meaning
14:25:23 <int-e> I'd complain about "type" but "cat" really isn't a better name
14:25:56 <wib_jonas> "convert" is both an obscure DOS utility such that the command name still exists on windows for some reason, and one of the public binaries of ImageMagick and its clones; I usually alias the latter to im-convert
14:26:25 <wib_jonas> "head" is the unix utility conflicting with some HTTP-related thingy that installs binaries named HEAD, GET, POST, I don't recall what
14:27:23 <int-e> some perl thingy... lwp-request
14:27:57 <wib_jonas> oh yeah, "halt". systemd installs a "halt" that does something confusingly different from the traditional "halt", and renames the traditional "halt" to "poweroff". I debugged that one for month, I just couldn't figure out why the new debian couldn't turn off the power on my computer.
14:28:06 <int-e> I use HEAD sometimes, never GET nor POST...
14:28:21 <perlbot> wib_jonas: head http://url/; returns the response code and server type from a HEAD request for a particular url.
14:28:44 <int-e> # cat ~/bin/halt \ #! /bin/bash \ echo try poweroff
14:28:58 <perlbot> wib_jonas: http://ip6.me/api/: 200: OK. Apache/2.4.46 (FreeBSD) OpenSSL/1.1.1d-freebsd
14:29:34 <int-e> Yeah, somehow `halt` leaves the computer switched on in a state that requires a BIOS-level hard or soft reboot (ctrl-alt-del works, IIRC)
14:30:17 <wib_jonas> oh, and "date" and "time" are also DOS vs unix conflicts
14:30:34 <int-e> it's just one of many nuisances that come with systemd
14:30:38 <wib_jonas> though now I just use my datei and dateu aliases on both unix and windows
14:30:46 <int-e> too much magic, really. "where are my core dumps?"
14:32:20 <wib_jonas> then there's "shutdown" and, indeed, "pushd", which are pairs of commands that serve the same main purpose on windows and unix, but are invoked differently
14:32:29 <int-e> (not cluttering the fs with year-old core dumpos is probably an improvement for most users though... but I disabled that thing because the whole journalctl business is too awkward)
14:33:08 <int-e> wib_jonas: This remeinds me of a previous discussion about git's and mercurial's UIs.
14:33:11 <fizzie> Of course Debian also has the "alternatives" system, which I think handles the cases like `nc` and `vi`, where there's several versions of a tool that does similar thing.
14:33:48 <wib_jonas> fizzie: and their new commands, such as sensible-browser
14:33:58 <wib_jonas> I think they have something like interactive-editor too
14:34:36 <wib_jonas> afaik debian isn't using alternatives for netcat though, the two or three different netcat versions just conflict with each other and can't be installed together
14:34:45 <int-e> . o O ( sensible-browser -> /bin/false )
14:35:49 <wib_jonas> it is used for vi and X, and has the result that's hilarious in hindsight only, that if you accidentally uninstall X.org then try to run the startx command, then it does nothing, exits with 0, and gives no error message, because somehow debian alternatives decided that if you have neither X.org or XFree86 installed then true is a suitable fallback
14:35:50 <int-e> eh, the alternatives system isn't bad
14:36:02 <wib_jonas> that's one I only debugged for hours
14:36:06 <fizzie> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html "Two different packages must not install programs with different functionality but with the same filenames. If this case happens, one of the programs must be renamed. The maintainers should report this to the debian-devel mailing list and try to find a consensus about which program will have to be renamed. If a consensus cannot be reached,
14:36:08 <fizzie> /both/ programs must be renamed."
14:36:34 <fizzie> (If they provide "the same functionality but different implementations", then it's handled via alternatives or "conflicts" dependency entries.)
14:36:50 <wib_jonas> fizzie: yes, and that's the policy currently broken with "netcat". not with "nc", mind you.
14:37:56 <wib_jonas> the two versions of netcat are both imperfect enough that you may want to have both installed to complement each other's mistakes, but you can't, so you just give up and try to learn socat or something
14:39:41 <wib_jonas> (one of them is so old it can't do ipv6; the other one is newer but lost the ability to listen and let the kernel choose the port number)
15:12:22 <int-e> wib_jonas: Oh, checking package names, they are: netcat-openbsd, and netcat-traditional ... so which one is the old one? ;-) (the former knows IPv6 so that answers that question)
15:40:23 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86723&oldid=84248 * Orisphera * (+1) /* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */
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16:06:11 <Corbin> Hm. Brainfuck has the concatenative property: Given any two programs, their juxtaposition is also a program. However, concatenation isn't composition; a wrapper would be needed in order to take outputs from the first program and feed them as inputs to the second program.
16:07:45 <Corbin> If only they composed! But they compose with a wrapper. This reminds me of commutativity; for many things, they don't commute, but they commute with an extra "commutator" term.
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17:33:27 <Corbin> Terminology question: What do we call it when a language turns unknown identifiers into searches on the filesystem? Like, unknown identifier "foo" becomes an attempt to read foo.sourcecode, or "foo/bar" tries to read foo/bar.sourcecode.
17:44:57 <Melvar> Hmm. Apparently on Fedora there are also two versions of netcat. Openbsd netcat, which is exclusively netcat, and nmap’s netcat, named ncat, which is both ncat and nc.
17:48:05 <Melvar> Also the halt manpage claims that poweroff existed before systemd, but that halt was usually a synonym of it. Not sure what actually halting is ever useful for, though.
17:49:28 <b_jonas> Corbin: that is called a shell
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17:52:12 <Corbin> b_jonas: Yes, shells have this behavior. But I feel like I've seen it, or variations on it, in other languages. I was wondering if it had a name.
18:00:44 <b_jonas> sure, matlab/octave does it too
18:01:53 <b_jonas> and the rather silly https://metacpan.org/pod/Shell module, which is not really intended to be used seriously.
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18:48:37 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86724&oldid=86722 * KakkoiiChris * (+1) /* V2 */ Fixed typo
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01:00:44 <oerjan> <Corbin> Terminology question: What do we call it when a language turns unknown identifiers into searches on the filesystem? Like, unknown identifier "foo" becomes an attempt to read foo.sourcecode, or "foo/bar" tries to read foo/bar.sourcecode. <-- . o O ( insecure )
01:02:29 <keegan> i've never heard of that feature
01:03:31 <fizzie> On that note, four windows → that-a-way: <Grinnz> pasting BEGIN { `rm -rf ~/**` } in a pl file should probably not irreparably break my computer
01:03:42 <fizzie> (The topic was language servers and syntax highlighting.)
01:03:44 <int-e> why is it more insecure than any other language that stores source code on a file system...
01:04:22 <int-e> (we already routinely map module names to file names)
01:05:02 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, we love language servers, and file browsers that try to render a preview of every file
01:05:36 <b_jonas> you know that with all the plugins installed, at least one of the previewer plugins will be buggy, and probably a previewer that you wouldn't even use
01:05:58 <int-e> so I did > cat > t.pl \ BEGIN { `rm -rf ~/**` }
01:06:02 <int-e> and nothing happened
01:06:37 <int-e> fizzie: I guess I'm failing to provide the context, what is "four windows → that-a-way"
01:08:26 <fizzie> In this case, the #perl channel, and I don't think it was necessarily a real example. But it's something about how you can't parse Perl code fully without actually running the parser, and you can't run the parser in a way that wouldn't execute that shell command.
01:09:00 <oerjan> int-e: it wasn't a serious comment, just the first thing that popped into my mind when reading that.
01:09:09 <int-e> fizzie: Ah. Yeah that makes sense.
01:09:11 <fizzie> Also vaguely in that direction, see Leffert, A. & Reed, J.: Oracle Types, SIGBOVIK 2021, http://sigbovik.org/2021/proceedings.pdf (in the "Type" Track).
01:09:26 <b_jonas> int-e: that's because the extension isn't enough, you need the previewer to autodetect the language, and it thinks it's ruby. try (echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\nBEGIN { `rm -rf something` }' > t.pl) instead
01:10:24 <int-e> "the previewer"--please elaborate.
01:12:18 <int-e> oerjan: sorry for taking your humorous comment seriously *d&r*
01:13:02 * oerjan runs after int-e with the swatter -----###
01:13:38 <int-e> I was afraid it would be the mapole
01:13:56 <oerjan> int-e: i think b_jonas is confusing the topics on the channel hth
01:14:27 <oerjan> the mapole isn't mine, it's patiently waiting for boily's return
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01:15:04 <oerjan> hm i haven't checked r/friends in a long time
01:15:13 <int-e> did boily get lost while trying to revive metasepia?
01:16:54 <oerjan> well i see him posting a reddit comment saying HEIN? two days ago
01:16:55 <zzo38> Autodetection will not always detect something correctly, though.
01:17:02 <oerjan> in that loud quebec thread
01:17:20 <zzo38> Also, sometimes the syntax highlighting will not be able to work correctly without executing the file.
01:17:30 <int-e> (I do know *about* reddit, but who has the time?)
01:17:56 <oerjan> also the top is Sgeo responding to a rather hilariously titled oculuc thread
01:18:30 <oerjan> int-e: i still like to check r/physics and r/haskell a bit on occasion
01:18:48 <int-e> `learn Reddit is a supercharged tab exploder.
01:18:53 <HackEso> Learned 'reddit': Reddit is a supercharged tab exploder.
01:21:18 <oerjan> (also had r/math open already, but i actually read less there usually)
01:22:33 <int-e> I just never got into reddit. Nor slashdot when that was still relevant...
01:23:57 <keegan> it has more of what made old school web forums good, compared to facebutt or twitter
01:24:05 <keegan> it's not really "social media" at least not the way i use it
01:29:44 <keegan> any popular or default-subscribed reddits are usually bad though
01:36:56 <oerjan> int-e: on the bright side that thread Sgeo posted in reinforces my decision never to get into Facebook
01:37:13 <oerjan> also regret i started reading it
01:39:25 <oerjan> int-e: some place people seem to keep getting angry about
01:40:22 <int-e> Yeah, *I* get angry about Facebook a lot and I've never even had an account.
01:40:26 <nakilon> '"virtualenv" is such a presumptious command name' -- that's pithon for ya
01:40:44 <int-e> (Though the way they operate I'm bound to have at least one shadow account.)
01:40:59 <nakilon> they always presume there is nothing else in the world except of them
01:41:43 <nakilon> Guido invented the plus operator -- I see this in their minds since 2007
01:43:11 <nakilon> because he needed something to run his interpreter on
01:47:00 <int-e> Well, Python is a pretty nice language.
01:48:01 <oerjan> . o O ( is Guido related to Wolfram? )
01:48:53 <int-e> oerjan: how many generations back are you willing to look?
01:49:18 <int-e> . o O ( and why does it matter )
01:56:33 <fizzie> I keep forgetting what the ~/music/unsorted/nsa_music directory is named after, and being all "huh, what's this then?", but it's just called that because there once was a Networked Storage Appliance that held the files in the directory.
01:57:25 <oerjan> int-e: we need to detect the gene for having invented everything! oh how could i forget Taneb
01:57:54 <oerjan> with 3 samples it should be really easy to find
01:58:06 <nakilon> at wolfram does not pretend to invent
01:58:28 <nakilon> he didn't add the word "lambda" to his language to pretend that it now has lambdas
01:58:44 <oerjan> nakilon: not in mathematica, but in his CA work
01:59:14 <oerjan> people point out that he wrote A New Kind of Science as if a lot of the ideas were new by him, which weren't
01:59:16 <int-e> fungot: is there anything that nakilon doesn't hate?
01:59:17 <fungot> int-e: but i'm wasting 4 bits with your code, to achieve the latter via imports and sutff?
01:59:32 <oerjan> or something like that.
01:59:51 <nakilon> people who know nothing love everything
02:00:01 <int-e> oerjan: do you know anybody who has actually read that book?
02:00:11 <oerjan> fizzie: that's just what they want you to think hth
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02:01:36 <keegan> one time i wrote a song about how people had hacked my microwave and were using it to spy on me
02:01:39 <keegan> maybe that's nsa music
02:01:44 <zzo38> Are RFC documents available without HTTPS? If you want to read the RFC to implement it if you do not have a implementation already, then it won't be very good. Other protocols can also help too (HTTP, Gopher, Gemini, etc), and also working even if you do not have internet connection, e.g. buy the book, borrow from library, etc.
02:01:44 <oerjan> int-e: i know scott aaronson and steven weinberg both reviewed it, does that count?
02:02:10 <keegan> zzo38: what if you don't have a TCP implementation either
02:02:34 <zzo38> keegan: In that case you will need the book, like I mentioned.
02:02:39 <int-e> oerjan: Oh Scott Aaronson reviewed it? I'm intrigued... (found it on arxiv)
02:02:44 <oerjan> s/which weren't/which many weren't/, let's not exaggerate too much
02:04:05 <zzo38> (Even if you can access it on internet, still you might want the book in case you want the printout but do not want to (or cannot) make the printout from your own computer (maybe in case there are too many pages).)
02:05:04 <nakilon> during last years every language has already implemented lambdas, even c++, but that one feeling butthurt due to realisation own uglyness keeps saying "nooo! we don't need what you all do! we are da best! we just have a keywork lambda and it's enough! we are da best lang in the world because we repeat this on daily basis! we don't need to prove it,
02:05:04 <nakilon> we just spread our cancer into ears of uneducated people who aren't aware of existence of other languages, because they are the majority and the percentage of our users will be the only thing that matters!"
02:06:32 <zzo38> Even any kind of database services can also work with telephone by TTY or fax; in the case of fax, send a blank page to retrieve a form like a 80-column computer card, fill in your query by shading the positions corresponding to the characters that you want, and then send the completed form. You can send it again later in case you want to receive updated data (e.g. weather forecasts). Menus are also possible in similar way, too.
02:06:52 <fizzie> zzo38: There is still an FTP service answering at ftp.rfc-editor.org.
02:06:57 <nakilon> the stubborness was so hard they made a zoo of at least three workarounds to just not make it like normal people do
02:07:15 <nakilon> (the last time I looked at it several years ago)
02:08:21 <int-e> oerjan: "We believe that Wolfram is overstating his case." *chuckles*
02:08:33 <keegan> are there any actual examples of automated fax services working through such forms?
02:09:02 <keegan> but i think in actuality such things would have been done through teletype
02:09:14 <fizzie> I have a feeling the https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc-retrieval.txt.pdf document has not been updated very frequently.
02:09:19 <zzo38> fizzie: FTP is even worse than HTTP, though.
02:09:35 <fizzie> But it does claim you may obtain RFC documents over email using an automated service.
02:11:25 <zzo38> keegan: I don't know of any such thing, but you can try to implement if wanted, I suppose
02:11:54 <keegan> I'm kind of sad that I missed the era of packet radio BBSes
02:12:02 <nakilon> what is this? community supported hostings for IEFT RFC documents?
02:12:13 <keegan> I did use some phone-line BBSes though
02:13:02 <nakilon> should there be some official list of checksums of RFCs?
02:13:18 <nakilon> and then the checksum of that list, lol
02:13:28 <fizzie> "Any site in the US running UUCP may call +1 900 GOT SRCS --" that's a great phone number though.
02:16:47 <fizzie> BBS systems (or I guess it's just "BB systems" to avoid redundancy) were colloquially called "purkki" or "boksi" (jar, can, box) in Finnish.
02:18:32 <fizzie> I used to dial into fiMUG's "Apple Garden BBS" occasionally, even though I didn't even have a Macintosh computer -- it ran on FirstClass, so you could use it with a graphical client, very fancy.
02:23:31 <int-e> nakilon: surely there's a git repo of them all somewhere :-P
02:24:10 <fizzie> There is an rsync option.
02:24:17 <zzo38> One thing I dislike about git is that it does not use directly the hash of the file, but rather the hash of the file with the header prepended that specifies its length.
02:24:18 <fizzie> (Not that it helps in terms of checksumming.)
02:24:53 <zzo38> Using directly the hash would be better for also content addressing etc with any systems that may use directly the hash of the file.
02:25:57 <nakilon> I imagine someone will make a system that compiles things based on RFCs automatically
02:26:00 <zzo38> (I think IPFS also does not use directly the hash of the file, due to using limited block sizes, and uses a format incompatible with git. IPFS with direct hashing would be better, I think.)
02:26:04 <nakilon> and then you give it fake RFC with a backdoor...
02:42:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * KakkoiiChris * uploaded a new version of "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]": Improved kerning of monogram
02:42:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] revert * KakkoiiChris * uploaded a new version of "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]": Reverted to version as of 07:19, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
02:44:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * KakkoiiChris * uploaded a new version of "[[File:MinimLogo.png]]": Improved kerning and alignment of monogram
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03:09:04 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86728&oldid=86724 * KakkoiiChris * (+9) /* Memory */ Fixed maximum memory size
03:40:07 <nakilon> where do you guys store you notes about servers you probably administer in some way?
03:40:35 <nakilon> like notes where are key files, how drives are attaches, which services should be set up, etc.
03:41:04 <nakilon> such info that I'm, for example, now am going to use to migrate software from one machine to another one
03:41:59 <zzo38> I run stuff on my own computer, so I keep notes only with information about backups on remote servers (for public data).
03:55:55 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86729&oldid=86728 * KakkoiiChris * (+520) /* Statements */ Added Gosub and Return stubs
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04:22:01 <nakilon> I'm tempted to use this one for the new instance https://cloud.google.com/container-optimized-os
04:29:13 <nakilon> wow just recently heard about Centos being discontinued and now I read the same about CoreOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_Linux
04:29:22 <nakilon> wtf is happening to Red Hat
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05:13:25 <zzo38> What algorithm can be used to figure out to move around the nodes on a map so that they do not overlap and to draw bent lines between the nodes if needed? This is the program so far: http://sprunge.us/csRWxA and the output is: http://zzo38computer.org/img_1F/townmap.png the lines are wrong and some are not visible due to being covered up by the other one.
05:18:21 <nakilon> I hate how graphviz bents the lines
05:18:54 <nakilon> it feels to me like they are wondering the same question too, for years, heh
05:21:01 <zzo38> Maybe then in future we can improve this program, and then adapt the parts of this program for drawing other maps/graphs too, and then can use that as an alternative program once it is fixed.
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06:49:45 <nakilon> looks like there is some practice of "machine/cloud-instance metadata" that may include startup autorun scripts, a list of disks to mount, etc.; didn't use it much, maybe should
06:50:41 <nakilon> at least in GCP it is a thing and it's not stored on the machine -- it's attached via the web console or via CLI from my external dev machine
07:06:23 <nakilon> (https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/metadata/overview)
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08:07:37 <b_jonas> int-e: I have looked at Wolfram's ANKS and read a few pages of it, many years ago.
08:08:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/
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08:09:46 <int-e> that review by Scott Aaronson was helpful (link: https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0206089 )
08:10:47 <int-e> Though it mostly confirmed that I've not missed much by not reading it.
08:45:49 <b_jonas> can anyone who understands how online auction sites work explain to me why it is that ebay sells DVD demagnetizers while amazon.com and amazon.co.uk doesn't?
08:47:21 <b_jonas> I don't want to buy one, I'm just trying to understand how online shopping works
08:48:08 <int-e> Well ebay has a very low barrier of entry for selling stuff.
08:48:08 <b_jonas> and I'm fascinated by the idea that someone managed to top gold-plated audio connectors in snakeoil-like quality in such a spectacular fashion
08:48:30 <int-e> Amazon... I don't know, how do you sell something on Amazon?
08:49:26 <b_jonas> banggood also doesn't seem to sell dvd demagnetizers
08:51:18 <int-e> On Amazon you pay $40 a month to sell something... plus fees... and I imagine people who sell questionable items get reported and suspended regularly.
08:51:38 <int-e> Ebay lets you make an auction for free.
08:51:58 <int-e> (with fees paid when it closes)
08:57:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TJC games * moved [[Gdelang]] to [[Esolang:Gdelfuck]]: It is FAR more difficult to program than bf. The creator of bf would be proud.
08:57:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * TJC games * moved [[Talk:Gdelang]] to [[Esolang talk:Gdelfuck]]: It is FAR more difficult to program than bf. The creator of bf would be proud.
08:58:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86734&oldid=86658 * TJC games * (+1) Gdelang -> Gdelfuck
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09:16:56 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, but that monthly fee isn't per listing, right? so someone who already pays the fee and regularly sells consumer electronics could add a listing
09:17:20 <b_jonas> int-e: the reporting might be correct though, ebay specifically makes it hard to report fraudulent entries. I tried to report once or twice and gave up.
09:18:19 <int-e> b_jonas: /if/ the reporting on amazon is effective (no clue, really) then you may be looking at $40 for every couple of listings...
09:19:41 <b_jonas> yeah, you have a point. on ebay, some fraudulent entries are by new sellers who pop up, then disappear after two months
09:20:10 <int-e> I'm saddened to think that there is a market for such a ludicrous product
09:20:56 <b_jonas> and there are often multitudes of ebay listings of effectively the same product by supposedly different sellers
09:22:06 <b_jonas> int-e: well, I might be making it *slightly* more ludicrous than it is: it's originally listed mainly as an audio CD demagnetizer, and audio CDs have fewer error correction codes and the general tendency to continue reading even after an uncorrectable checksum error. that it also demagnetizes DVD is an added bonus.
09:22:42 <int-e> But does it also function as an audio tape demagnetizer?
09:23:41 <b_jonas> int-e: no, those are physically incompatible. maybe it could work as a 5 inch floppy disk demagnetizer.
09:23:55 <b_jonas> there are audio tape casette player *head* demagnetizers though
09:24:38 <b_jonas> (I don't know whether those do anything potentially useful)
09:24:43 <int-e> well, those almost make sense (but there still shouldn't be any permamagnetic materials in there)
09:25:21 <b_jonas> how? everything old is made of iron, because plastics sucked back then, so a lots of things incidentally have magnetizable materials
09:25:52 <b_jonas> like, they can have iron sheets for shielding
09:26:09 <b_jonas> or even just for structural stability in larger devices
09:26:27 <b_jonas> or even just steel screws to hold plastic parts together, those can get magnetized too
09:33:16 <fizzie> On the topic of metadata (mostly config files) about machines I administer, I've spoken about it before, but I keep mine in a git repo with a "dist" branch (config files as they came out from the distribution's packages) in addition to the one with the edited files, so that when there's a software upgrade that changes a config file I've edited, I can just commit the new version to the dist branch
09:33:18 <fizzie> and then merge it to get a proper three-way merge.
09:33:20 <fizzie> It's complemented with some homegrown "deploy" scripts that you can ask to compare the files with a cached copy of what's expected to be live on the machine, and for changed files connects over SSH, double-checks that the *actually* live copy matches the cached one (i.e., I've not edited anything "in situ"), and pushes the updates. The script's one of those "no install needed on the remote end";
09:33:22 <fizzie> it pushes the deploy logic along with the data over the SSH connection.
09:33:24 <fizzie> Since that's where I keep all configuration, other less structured notes about systems also go in the same repository, they're just not listed as deployable configuration files.
09:33:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86735&oldid=86592 * LyricLy * (-86) Improve professionality
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09:37:19 <fizzie> And on the topic of Chromium OS, I used a portable Chrome OS device (the Pixel Slate) for maybe a bit less than a year as the thing I'd take on a trip to do browser stuff, SSH, and other assorted bits of computing, like playing around with its ARC+ and Crostini virtualization things for Android and Linux software, respectively. But I don't think I learned anything particularly relevant about the
09:37:20 <fizzie> operating system from that.
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10:49:51 <wib_jonas> fizzie: that's nice. I should probably organize the dozen config files that I modify somehow, even if not in such a powerful way.
10:50:40 <wib_jonas> keeping unstructured notes about the systems in the config directory is an interesting idea, I haven't considered that
10:51:07 <wib_jonas> one problem is that some of the configuration contains secret information, as in passwords or private keys
10:51:34 <wib_jonas> and ideally I want to make ic always clear which stuff is secret
11:01:49 <nakilon> THIS_IS_SECRET_DONT_READ_IT.txt
11:33:49 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't have a great solution for secrets. I do have a separate place for "keys" in general, but sometimes a password or something kind of has to go into a config file. Like wifi pre-shared keys for the router or whatnot. Maybe I should add some support for references to secrets stored elsewhere, that would be substituted on the fly when pushing.
11:38:20 <riv> i usually .gitignore the file but have a dummy version with a fake password in it
11:54:46 <wib_jonas> ideally programs should be written in such a way that the config file doesn't have secrets, those are read from a separate file, but I might not bother changing this in existing programs as opposed to programs that I write
11:55:42 <riv> what about secrets in env vars?
11:55:43 <wib_jonas> but yes, I guess I should make a version of the config file with a fake password, and substitute it as I deploy
11:56:16 <wib_jonas> riv: those definitely shouldn't exist. there too, the env-var should refer to the name of a file that has the password or key, or some other indirection
11:56:47 <wib_jonas> but I don't think I've ever seen passwords given in an env-var. in command-line arguments, sure, sometimes people do that, but in general most people know that they shouldn't.
11:56:55 <riv> i feel the same way but i don't have a good reason for it
11:58:11 <wib_jonas> the reason is that the command-line arguments are readable from /proc to any user on the same system, and ps can display them
11:58:46 <wib_jonas> I don't know whether this applies to env-vars: they are in /proc but I don't recall if they're readable to everyone
11:58:59 <riv> so files are contained per user at least
11:59:36 <wib_jonas> for files you have to make sure to set up permissions correctly
11:59:50 <wib_jonas> you can leak secrets by world-readable files too if you're not careful
12:14:32 <nakilon> I think it's easier to steal a file than an env var
12:15:53 <nakilon> also it's pretty usual to pass secrets as env vars -- secrets are often stored by the web service that you use to deploy things
12:16:39 <nakilon> for example Github Actions
12:17:25 <nakilon> this damn thing does not work ( it just hangs https://cloud.google.com/container-optimized-os/docs/how-to/toolbox#installing_and_running_tools_from_toolbox and there is no way to install htop on container-optimized os
12:18:36 <nakilon> and their repo does not have Issues tab, nice https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/cos-toolbox
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12:27:40 <riv> https://games.greggman.com/game/zip-rant/
12:32:42 <nakilon> lol, came to GCP's official slack with questions, see a guy with his own questions too and a thread where people say "try also asking on Stackoverflow"
12:33:15 <nakilon> he did ask; "you won't believe!" but the questions got downvoted and closed, lol
12:34:02 <nakilon> this fucked up world where you aren't supposed to ask questions which are not about how to make a hello world
12:41:51 <riv> https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/resources/blogs/spiderlabs-blog/is-modsecuritys-secrules-turing-complete/
12:54:13 <nakilon> oh and this container-optimized image splits the 10GB disk in such way that leaves me only 5.7GB free from start https://dpaste.org/wk26/slim
13:02:01 <riv> so my book says that LZW compression is universal in the sense that it can asymptotically compress any ergodic source to entropy
13:02:37 <riv> proved by Cover and Thomas (1991)
13:02:43 <riv> i can't find this but it is an interesting result
13:03:32 <riv> and it says that an adaptive arithmetic compression could also be universal for a much more restricted set of sources
13:07:52 <riv> http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~cgong821/Wiley.Interscience.Elements.of.Information.Theory.Jul.2006.eBook-DDU.pdf ok here is the proof on page 443 (469)
13:09:22 <riv> > This result was proved by Wyner and Ziv [591].
13:09:24 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
13:12:22 <riv> i wonder if that is the easiest way to compute the entropy of a source
13:17:51 <riv> I never thought about unary coding like this before: 1, 01, 001, 0001, ... represents 0,1,2,3, ...
13:18:03 <riv> this is an optimal encoding if P(n) = 2^(-n)
13:21:10 <nakilon> when you count on fingers you do it
13:21:21 <nakilon> you use 10 fingers to count up to 10
13:21:34 <nakilon> unless you are such a nerd I didn't see before
13:22:37 <nakilon> imagine hearing "only a few left, you can count them on your fingers" and thinking "1024?"
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13:28:52 <nakilon> it's hard to multiply or maybe divide numbers in head, so imagine working as a team
13:29:17 <nakilon> where a team of 10 guys each remember several digits
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13:30:40 <nakilon> I guess an experienced team of 5 can calculate everything with enough precision to launch rockets
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14:04:00 <riv> https://twitter.com/tomo_/status/1402464791893975044
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15:00:29 <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder how large a fraction of the viewers of https://xkcd.com/2496/ also went and solved it. Perhaps a pretty large one.
15:01:39 <Taneb> I was a little surprised it's uniquely solvable with just that information
15:03:26 <fizzie> I kind of assumed it would have been chosen to be.
15:06:27 <Taneb> I don't think that's the solution I got?
15:06:42 <Taneb> Not entirely sure of your notation
15:06:46 <wib_jonas> a minesweeper captcha? that's like the wiki's base 9 to base 10 radix conversion captcha, easier to solve with a computer than without
15:08:50 <wib_jonas> I'm bad at minesweeper... I think there's a unique solution, with four mines, all in the middle two rows
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15:09:33 <riv> nothing happens when I click
15:12:30 <wib_jonas> puzzle is [2.1./..3./3.../.1.1] . the two fields on the top right must be clean, and the tile below the 2 must be a mine, just from the 2 and 1 in the top row, so it's like [2.1-/*.3-/3.../.1.1] where - means clean and * means mine. then
15:13:16 <wib_jonas> from the top row 1 and the 3 below it, there must be two mines among the tree cells below the 3, and then because of the 1s in the bottom row, those can only be placed like [2.1-/*.3-/3*-*/-1-1].
15:13:55 <nakilon> I now imagine an IRC minesweeper bot
15:14:27 <nakilon> and disarming mines collectively
15:14:47 <wib_jonas> finally the 3 in the left needs two mines above it, and then the remaining cell in the first row must be clean: [2-1-/**3-/3*-*/-1-1]
15:15:43 <wib_jonas> nakilon: isn't a1 the bottom left cell? that seems different from what I said
15:15:53 <myname> there was some website with a minesweeper captcha where you were given a solved board and have to click on the error
15:17:03 <wib_jonas> nakilon: if I decode that correctly, that would be [2-1-/**3-/3--*/*1-1] but that is wrong because the middle 3 only has two mines around it
15:17:30 <nakilon> my legs and arms are flying over the minefield
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15:29:24 <wib_jonas> plus I'm reminded of SMBC's very different recent take on captchas\
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15:53:50 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86736&oldid=86710 * Spargle * (+384) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
15:59:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Martsadas * New user account
16:05:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86737&oldid=86678 * Martsadas * (+212)
16:06:35 <esolangs> [[User:Martsadas]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86738 * Martsadas * (+25) Created page with "Hello! I'm User:Martsadas"
16:17:21 <nakilon> b_jonas about the 'what is my IP' see what I've found -- the example snippet here https://cloud.google.com/build/docs/configuring-builds/use-community-and-custom-builders
16:18:44 <nakilon> oh it's in json, not just a string
16:19:15 <nakilon> maybe there are other routes on this server, didn't research
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16:45:10 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86739 * Martsadas * (+2486) Created page with "=== LOLSUS is an esolang created by [https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Martsadas User:Martsadas] === <br> <br> === Valid Instructions : ===<br> '''Instructions that starts with..."
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17:30:26 <b_jonas> nakilon: I found a usable one earlier: http://ip6.me/ for the website and description, http://ip6.me/api/ for the machine-readable version
17:30:43 <b_jonas> they have variants for in6 only, in4 only, and fallbacks both ways
17:31:08 <b_jonas> hmm no, they don't have an in4 to in6 fallback actually
17:31:24 <b_jonas> still, they have an in4 only and an in6 only, at worst you send two queries
17:33:38 <b_jonas> (they also have https versions)
17:35:48 <zzo38> For retrieving your IP address, there is: http://icanhazip.com/ only uses plain text; no HTML or anything like that is needed. (However, this might not work with version 6; I don't know, since I don't have version 6 internet)
17:37:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: thanks, that does give me my ipv6 address
17:38:24 <b_jonas> and an ipv4 address too, if I connect on ipv4
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18:04:29 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86740&oldid=86662 * Digital Hunter * (+70) /* Parse this sic */ shorter one. Works.
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18:19:44 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86741&oldid=86720 * Ch44d * (+0) fix hello world 2
18:20:46 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86742&oldid=86741 * Ch44d * (+4) /* Hello World 2 */
18:36:03 <zzo38> Why when using exiftool with the PNG output from Ghostscript, it says "Primary Platform : Apple Computer Inc." even though I am using Linux on a PC, and not Apple?
18:37:25 <b_jonas> fungot, how many years is a gigasecond?
18:37:26 <fungot> b_jonas: omg happy fnord kthxbye"? more like a schemematic for a single character... except for... something, and then calls the one it fnord)
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18:38:40 <keegan> I had a celebration for my gigasecond
18:38:45 <keegan> my parents even sent me a card
18:44:34 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86743&oldid=86729 * KakkoiiChris * (-72) /* V4 */ Fixed format of @ delimiter in examples
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21:29:54 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86744 * Dominicentek * (+2400) Created page with "ReadWrite is an esoteric programming language written by [[User:Dominicentek]]. It only has 2 instructions. Reading from memory or writing to memory. == Instructions == {| cla..."
21:31:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86745&oldid=86734 * Dominicentek * (+16) /* R */
21:32:06 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86746&oldid=86744 * Dominicentek * (+27) Added extra category
21:34:22 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86747&oldid=86659 * Dominicentek * (+47)
21:34:35 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86748&oldid=86747 * Dominicentek * (+4)
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21:41:39 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86749&oldid=86746 * Dominicentek * (+122) Added few notes to the Math section
21:49:47 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86750&oldid=86749 * Dominicentek * (+177) Changed outputting system
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23:12:24 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86751&oldid=86445 * Tomhe * (+75) wflip addr,val,jmp syntax update
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23:25:51 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86752&oldid=86750 * Dominicentek * (+75) Added interpreter + fixed calculator example
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23:35:33 <esolangs> [[ReadWrite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86753&oldid=86752 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) /* Interpreter */ Fix cat
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23:39:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86754&oldid=86745 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* L */ LOLUS
23:40:17 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86755&oldid=86739 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-19) Cat, wikilink
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00:20:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:ight]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86756&oldid=86618 * AmNow * (+137)
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02:53:46 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86757&oldid=86743 * KakkoiiChris * (+36) /* Example Programs */ Added FizzBuzz and Fibonacci example program headers
02:54:04 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86758&oldid=86757 * KakkoiiChris * (+1) /* =FizzBuzz */
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04:10:54 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86759&oldid=86758 * KakkoiiChris * (+18257) /* FizzBuzz */ Added example code with syntax highlighting
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05:06:54 <oerjan> <nakilon> imagine hearing "only a few left, you can count them on your fingers" and thinking "1024?" <-- i don't do that, but i often use the thumbs as 5 so i can count up to 99 easily
05:11:35 <oerjan> <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder how large a fraction of the viewers of https://xkcd.com/2496/ also went and solved it. Perhaps a pretty large one. <-- hey no fair i hadn't checked that yet so no i have to solve it too...
05:15:06 <oerjan> ok, that wasn't too hard
05:15:22 <oerjan> except for me making an error the first time
05:15:41 <oerjan> and the second, come to think of it.
05:15:47 <oerjan> but nope, not too hard
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05:29:56 <oerjan> also it agrees with b_jonas, but my logic was different.
05:30:36 <oerjan> (i started with realization that because of the leftmost 3 and 1, the two cells above the 3 must be bombs)
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06:49:14 <nakilon> damn I get "You must use TLS/SSL and authenticate via SASL to connect to freenode" both in the client and in kiwiirc on their website
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07:17:32 <oerjan> nakilon: i saw notes on wikimedia about that, but didn't want to be the one bringing up the subject
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07:19:03 <oerjan> amusingly, as a result the netsplit.de statistics aggregator has now declared freenode "historical" and someone has used this as a reference to put a claim in wikipedia:Freenode that it no longer exists
07:20:12 <nakilon> people don't really need anything to be used to start claiming anything they want about freenode though
07:20:48 <oerjan> nakilon: wikipedia _does_ have citation requirements. i suspect someone may revert it.
07:21:02 <nakilon> I just wanted to check if the channel that has only 6 users here has more there, since official docs say to go to freenode
07:21:06 <oerjan> lemme check if it's already happened
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07:21:50 <oerjan> nah no more edits to that page yet
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07:22:31 <oerjan> but there have been several back-and-forths where claims have been put there before a reliable source existed, then reverted
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07:26:16 <nakilon> " wikipedia _does_ have citation requirements" -- this is a big joke because since there is still no proof of any "hostile takeover" they could not put it to the wikipedia page so instead they put the words "some say that there was a hostile takeover" and put a link that prove only the fact that "some say that", not the "hostile takeover" itself
07:26:51 <nakilon> wikipedia is such a blatant lexical manipulations shitfest
07:28:33 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86760&oldid=86755 * Martsadas * (+26)
07:29:03 <nakilon> the link leads to just a tabloid btw, so I can start writing everywhere that Bill Gates is pregnant until some tabloid writes about me saying this nonsense so then I'll go write it in Wikipedia: "some say that Bill Gates is pregnant" and link the tabloid as a proof
07:30:10 <riv> https://river.bearblog.dev/probability-of-coin-flip-subsequences/ i wrote a blog post
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07:33:15 <zzo38> PostScript has some of the things that I like better compared with some of the other more modern programming languages, I think
07:33:32 <riv> what are those things?
07:35:06 <zzo38> One thing is that strings are byte arrays which you can split and write to, and doesn't force using Unicode or whatever like that. You can also write hex string literals, too.
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07:42:38 <nakilon> riv the link in the article isn't clickable
07:56:26 <zzo38> Another thing is the working of the "printobject" command which will write out a structured data in a format that can easily be handled by external programs without needing to needing to parse the entire structure, and can just be used in the memory as it is.
07:57:52 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86761&oldid=86760 * Martsadas * (+299)
07:58:39 <zzo38> You can make a slice of a string or array, which aliases the original one, so writes into one will also be visible when read from the other one, too. The "search" command which can search one string in another one will also make such slices, splitting into three parts of the string.
07:59:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: meh, most programming languages also have byte arrays which you can split and write to
08:00:22 <b_jonas> but I think postscript also precedes the spread of unicode
08:02:44 <nakilon> so the container-optimized os is actually an awful thing
08:02:54 <nakilon> I'm regretting spending on it so much time
08:03:18 <nakilon> it ended up being just awful in usage
08:04:42 <zzo38> Well, I don't really like the modern programming languages that try to require you to using Unicode. Also, programming languages such as JavaScript do not use byte arrays as text strings (and they didn't have byte arrays at first anyways; they added them later on; one thing I didn't like (until they fixed it) is that they didn't used to have byte arrays)
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08:12:43 <esolangs> [[User:OrichalcumCosmonaut]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86762&oldid=86253 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+30) i moved pubnixes
08:15:10 <esolangs> [[Fear]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86763&oldid=86623 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+30) /* Implementations */ i moved pubnixes
08:17:21 <zzo38> Also, procedures are arrays and can be constructed and manipulated like any other arrays, too.
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08:29:40 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86764&oldid=86761 * Martsadas * (+4620)
08:30:37 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86765&oldid=86764 * Martsadas * (+18)
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10:38:39 <esolangs> [[User:Martsadas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86766&oldid=86738 * Martsadas * (+19)
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10:45:58 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86767&oldid=86723 * Martsadas * (+0) /* fixed typo */
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11:12:14 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86768&oldid=86751 * Tomhe * (+300) explain {hex/dec}lib.fj
11:36:37 <riv> http://www.markability.net/
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12:05:39 <esolangs> [[IncLoop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86769 * Orisphera * (+1491) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=IncLoop |author=[[User:Orisphera|Orisphera]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] }} '''IncLoop''' in a programming language designed to have short programs..."
12:07:37 <esolangs> [[IncLoop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86770&oldid=86769 * Orisphera * (+1)
12:15:51 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86771&oldid=86754 * Orisphera * (+14) /* I */
12:30:35 <fizzie> I didn't want to bring up the topic either, but since it's now been brought up, heh; noticed that SASL requirement for client connections (probably means I won't be reconnecting once I next get disconnected), but it *is* amusing it stops the webchat from working too, especially since the disconnection message explicitly refers to the webchat.
12:30:50 <fizzie> Almost misspelled that as "webcat". Hmm, what's a webcat?
12:31:02 <fizzie> I guess it could just be one of those cats with a website.
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13:29:25 <esolangs> [[LOLSUS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86772&oldid=86765 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-858) /* Example Programs: */ Use pre tags
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14:12:20 <int-e> fizzie: a cat that has been out hunting for spiders?
14:12:49 <fizzie> Could be. I didn't remember "web" had other meanings too.
14:13:36 <FireFly> among other things, I think it's a webkit-based browser someone made for sailfish
14:16:35 <fizzie> There was a big (well, I mean, relatively, in UK terms) spider living in a... crevice of sorts, on our balcony. It usually came out to sniff the breeze (or whatever spiders do) at night-time. But we cleaned up the balcony the other day (had to be done, it was all grimy like everything outdoors here gets), and I haven't seen it since. :/
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16:07:51 <esolangs> [[IncLoop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86773&oldid=86770 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+225) Cats, interpreter
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18:40:31 <esolangs> [[IncLoop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86774&oldid=86773 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) Refimpl
19:33:59 <esolangs> [[IncLoop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86775&oldid=86774 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+55) m
19:34:33 <esolangs> [[IncLoop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86776&oldid=86775 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-4) Fix parameter name
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20:27:53 <esolangs> [[Headass]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86777 * CosmicMan08 * (+2054) Created page with "Headass is an esoteric programming language by discord user thejonymyster#7537. == Memory == Memory consists of 4 registers and an array {| class="wikitable" |- ! Register..."
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20:42:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheJonyMyster * New user account
20:51:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86778&oldid=86737 * TheJonyMyster * (+184) introduced myself
20:57:13 <esolangs> [[Headass]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86779&oldid=86777 * TheJonyMyster * (+260) added cooler example, changed turing completeness status to unknown
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21:29:36 <esolangs> [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86780&oldid=86779 * TheJonyMyster * (+18) add year
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23:46:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86781&oldid=77005 * TheJonyMyster * (+78) /* Does this belong in joke languages */ new section
23:46:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Categorial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86782&oldid=86781 * TheJonyMyster * (+98) forgot sig