00:03:54 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103689&oldid=101952 * Lemonz * (+65) /* Commands */
00:05:33 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103690&oldid=103511 * Lemonz * (-20) /* langs */
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01:55:16 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103691&oldid=103648 * Pro465 * (+253) added conditions for halting
01:56:18 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103692&oldid=103691 * Pro465 * (-4) /* Turing Completeness */
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02:09:14 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103693&oldid=103677 * Pro465 * (+13) /* C */ add CTFuck
02:10:14 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103694&oldid=103693 * Pro465 * (+0) /* C */ formatting
02:12:22 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103695&oldid=103692 * Pro465 * (+0) /* Turing Completeness */
02:13:32 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103696&oldid=103695 * Pro465 * (+0) /* Halting */ fix typo
02:16:41 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103697&oldid=103696 * Pro465 * (+124) /* Sample Programs */
02:32:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * 2013 * New user account
02:34:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103698&oldid=103655 * 2013 * (+170)
02:35:52 <esolangs> [[PenisScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103699&oldid=82501 * 2013 * (+0)
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03:36:36 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103700&oldid=103697 * Pro465 * (+0) /* Commands */
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04:00:48 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103701&oldid=103700 * Pro465 * (+228)
04:01:44 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103702&oldid=103701 * Pro465 * (-11)
04:02:25 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103703&oldid=103702 * Pro465 * (-2) /* IO is big endian */
05:05:49 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103704&oldid=103703 * Pro465 * (+68) change the language a bit
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07:15:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103705&oldid=103698 * Lampe2020 * (+301) /* Introductions */
07:25:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103706&oldid=103705 * Lampe2020 * (+4) /* Introductions */ Added link to arrowey wiki page to my introduction.
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07:41:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Lampe2020 * uploaded "[[File:Arrowey "Hello World" program.png]]"
07:51:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Lampe2020 * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Arrowey "Hello World" program.png]]": The provious one had part of the path cut off, now it's complete with a bit more comments.
07:59:42 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103709 * Lampe2020 * (+1141) Created article about arrowey.
08:01:54 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103710&oldid=103709 * Lampe2020 * (+111) Added GitHub link to arrowey's interpreter.
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08:30:29 <esolangs> [[User:Lampe2020]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103711 * Lampe2020 * (+193) I created my user page.
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12:19:03 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103712&oldid=103669 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+92) /* Commands */
12:21:12 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103713&oldid=103712 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+128) /* Notes */
12:21:27 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103714&oldid=103713 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+1) /* Notes */
12:21:44 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103715&oldid=103714 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+0) /* Notes */
12:22:47 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103716&oldid=103715 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+23) /* Notes */
12:23:10 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103717&oldid=103716 * ColonelMatthew97 * (-23) /* Notes (main content in bold) */
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12:27:08 <esolangs> [[Sonata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103718&oldid=75174 * TJC games * (+10) he
12:31:04 <esolangs> [[Longplayer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103719&oldid=55556 * TJC games * (+122) /* Computational class */
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15:34:00 <esolangs> [[SuperScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103720 * Yes * (+1042) Created page with "SuperScript, not to be confused with <sup>superscript</sup>, is an esolang made by [[User:Yes]] that was made with the design goal of being easy to implement while also being..."
15:34:25 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103721&oldid=103214 * Yes * (+21)
15:40:01 <esolangs> [[Subleq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103722&oldid=101530 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-51)
15:40:23 <esolangs> [[SuperScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103723&oldid=103720 * Yes * (+144)
15:42:53 <esolangs> [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103724&oldid=103722 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1)
15:43:52 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1269.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
15:44:00 <b_jonas> (also the previous olist invocation was misnumbered but we don't care anymore)
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17:11:26 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103725&oldid=101259 * TJC games * (+45) /* Interpretation */
17:16:31 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103726&oldid=103725 * TJC games * (+5601) /* Precision mechanism */
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18:00:15 <esolangs> [[CTF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103727 * Pro465 * (+19) add redirection
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22:22:23 <esolangs> [[Koyaanisqatsi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103728&oldid=103554 * Alikberov * (+704) /* gists/jsfiddle demo & extra-mode features */
23:34:03 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103729&oldid=103710 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+97) Stub, categories
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09:27:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Eaglestars * New user account
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11:49:44 <esolangs> [[rainfisHQ9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103730 * Xyzzy * (+266) Created page with "{{WIP}} This language is a combination of [[]], [[brainfuck]], [[deadfish]] and [[HQ9+]]! [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:Joke languages]] [[Category:2022]] Cate..."
12:07:10 <esolangs> [[rainfisHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103731&oldid=103730 * Xyzzy * (-10)
12:08:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:rainfisHQ9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103732 * Xyzzy * (+86) Created page with "Nothing! --~~~~"
12:09:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:Xyzzy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103733&oldid=102964 * Xyzzy * (-2)
12:14:26 <esolangs> [[rainfisHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103734&oldid=103731 * Xyzzy * (+1521)
12:18:38 <esolangs> [[rainfisHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103735&oldid=103734 * Xyzzy * (+58)
12:19:55 <esolangs> [[rainfisHQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103736&oldid=103735 * Xyzzy * (+191)
12:33:52 <esolangs> [[Ixqus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103737 * Xyzzy * (+24) Redirected page to [[]]
12:45:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:OOOOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103738 * Joaozin003 * (+201) Created page with "== Turing completeness == This is completely unusable, since there is no way to store anything, or even loop. ~~~~"
12:58:19 <esolangs> [[IXrainfisHQ9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103739 * Xyzzy * (+29) Redirected page to [[rainfisHQ9+]]
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14:00:15 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103740&oldid=103704 * Pro465 * (+28) add turing tarpit category
14:01:50 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103741&oldid=103740 * Pro465 * (+1) fix typo
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16:00:50 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103742&oldid=103729 * Lampe2020 * (+146) Added note about no more info to add, this will later be removed (when the language is in a working condition).
16:07:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Lampe2020 * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Arrowey "Hello World" program.png]]": This version shows that instructions AND comments can cross an instruction in arrowey code.
16:10:33 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103744&oldid=103742 * Lampe2020 * (+0) Fixed typo, improved wording.
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17:28:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TeraByte * New user account
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17:54:57 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103745&oldid=103601 * SpaceByte * (+683) v1.1
17:59:48 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103746&oldid=103745 * SpaceByte * (+809)
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19:22:39 <esolangs> [[Whopper]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103747&oldid=91103 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+72) Rectified the hi example, which would fail because, following the printing of the letter h and pushing the number 1, too few stack elements would remain for an addition operation.
19:23:14 <esolangs> [[Whopper]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103748&oldid=103747 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+166) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Whopper programming language on GitHub.
19:24:15 <esolangs> [[Whopper]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103749&oldid=103748 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+50) Added the two category tags Stack-based and Implemented.
19:43:32 <int-e> Friday's xkcd makes me wonder whether Randall has played https://nathanpowlesslynes.itch.io/tongue-tied
19:51:38 <esolangs> [[Lambda Calculus Primer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103750 * LarhoCherqi * (+3553) Created The Page
19:51:54 <esolangs> [[User:LarhoCherqi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103751&oldid=103616 * LarhoCherqi * (+29)
19:52:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103752&oldid=103694 * LarhoCherqi * (+29) Added Lambda Calculus Primer
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22:00:19 <esolangs> [[Koyaanisqatsi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103753&oldid=103728 * Alikberov * (+1653) /* Few details about conception */
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23:32:41 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103754&oldid=103744 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31) Category
23:34:44 <esolangs> [[Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103755&oldid=89390 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* External links */ Category
23:54:07 <esolangs> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103756&oldid=102709 * EnilKoder * (-1001) /* Unsigned Integers */
23:59:01 <esolangs> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103757&oldid=103756 * EnilKoder * (-1156) /* Two-Comp Integers */
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00:13:11 <esolangs> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103758&oldid=103757 * EnilKoder * (-806) /* IEEE Floats */
00:14:00 <esolangs> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103759&oldid=103758 * EnilKoder * (+8) /* IEEE Floats */
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00:42:36 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103760&oldid=103615 * Dtp09 * (+29) /* Explanation of Commands */
00:44:12 <esolangs> [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103761&oldid=102520 * Zip * (+97) added my (bad) interpreter to the list
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00:48:50 <shachaf> What a world where I'm trying to figure out whether a graph is 4-colorable and the easiest way I can think of to do it is to write 15 lines of code to generate a CNF file for a SAT solver.
01:03:20 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's an NP-complete problem, and in fact 3SAT translates in linear space overhead to 3-coloring (or 4-coloring), so I don't think you can expect to have a much better general solver for 4-coloring than for SAT
01:03:44 <b_jonas> linear with low proportionality constants
01:09:21 <shachaf> It's a small graph so I don't really care what algorithm is used for it. I was just surprised nothing else seemed easily available.
02:52:45 <esolangs> [[Lambda Calculus Primer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103762&oldid=103750 * LarhoCherqi * (+63) Improved clarity
03:30:41 -!- Amore has joined.
03:34:43 <esolangs> [[Set]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103763&oldid=84211 * Zip * (+93) added my interpreter
03:39:35 <esolangs> [[User:Zip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103764&oldid=100276 * Zip * (+118)
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06:00:56 <esolangs> [[Lambda Calculus Primer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103765&oldid=103762 * LarhoCherqi * (+15) Improved clarity (again)
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11:09:52 <HackEso> The password of the month is knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door.
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15:56:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ChrisKelly * New user account
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18:00:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Scott Krenner * New user account
18:13:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103766&oldid=103706 * Scott Krenner * (+246) /* Introductions */
18:13:34 <esolangs> [[The Chances of Anything Coming from Mars]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103767 * Scott Krenner * (+2072) I made the dumb language.
18:16:25 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103768&oldid=102758 * Scott Krenner * (+156) /* General languages */ I added the dumb language I hath created
18:17:36 <esolangs> [[The Chances of Anything Coming from Mars]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103769&oldid=103767 * Scott Krenner * (+52) inspiration
18:18:46 <esolangs> [[The Chances of Anything Coming from Mars]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103770&oldid=103769 * Scott Krenner * (+51) /* Javascript Interpreter */ instructions
18:19:10 <esolangs> [[The Chances of Anything Coming from Mars]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103771&oldid=103770 * Scott Krenner * (+4) /* Javascript Interpreter */ add break
18:19:32 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103772&oldid=103717 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+42)
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18:24:28 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103773&oldid=103772 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+194) /* Input */
18:24:44 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103774&oldid=103773 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+3) /* Input */
18:24:52 <esolangs> [[The Chances of Anything Coming from Mars]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103775&oldid=103771 * Scott Krenner * (+50)
18:54:43 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is a shade of blue.
18:54:48 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is a shade of blue.
18:55:20 <int-e> (How many bits of entropy is that? :-P)
18:55:31 <fizzie> But is it a super-intelligent one?
18:56:30 <int-e> A super-intelligent shade of blue, hmm.
18:57:12 <int-e> Obviously I have not read those books often enough.
18:58:03 <int-e> It's the first one, too.
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19:00:09 <int-e> Tbf, it doesn't have a huge impact on the story, being confined to a single paragraph that also contains "an octopoid physucturalist or two"...
19:00:18 <int-e> fizzie: thanks for the reference
19:05:26 <fizzie> Well, you know, we have someone called Hooloovoo on the channel right this moment, was just thinking that'd be an unsafe password. ;)
19:05:55 <int-e> fizzie: I never made the connection.
19:06:50 <int-e> (Actually I even failed to make it 5 minutes ago, despite seeing the creature's name...)
19:07:28 <int-e> But accidental references are nice too :)
19:21:48 <b_jonas> "octopoid physucturalist"? I don't remember this. I only remember the walking treeoids.
19:37:39 <int-e> Oh it's another broken Redactle, easy to get in 1.
19:39:31 <int-e> b_jonas: from what I see, the word "physucturalist" occurs *once* in the books.
19:39:57 <int-e> and so does "octopoid" which is maybe a bit surprising
19:43:18 <int-e> b_jonas: There's a delegation of the designers of the Heart of Gold at one point, shortly before it gets stolen. It's literally a single paragraph describing them and another one of them buzzing with excitement. It's completely overshadowed by Zaphod's performance... mostly saying "Hi" half a dozen times. :P
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20:17:19 <b_jonas> int-e: is that also where the walking treeoids are mentioned, or is that somewhere else?
20:18:54 <b_jonas> hmm, according to the itnernet, superintelligent shades of color blue is mentioned more than once in the books
20:19:21 <b_jonas> the internet alleges a quote like this: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/824143-somewhere-in-the-cosmos-he-said-along-with-all-the
20:21:16 <esolangs> [[Tampio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103776&oldid=53947 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) Add category
20:22:23 <int-e> b_jonas: Apparently that's later on Magrathea.
20:23:10 <int-e> I forgot about the biroids too.
20:33:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Pichi * New user account
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22:53:11 <esolangs> [[The Chances of Anything Coming from Mars]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103777&oldid=103775 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+139) Add links and categories
23:55:07 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103778&oldid=103760 * Dtp09 * (+84)
23:56:31 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103779&oldid=103778 * Dtp09 * (+24) /* Commands */
23:57:50 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103780&oldid=103779 * Dtp09 * (+3) /* Commands */
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00:45:06 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103781&oldid=103780 * Dtp09 * (+13) /* Push */
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01:54:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dtp09 * uploaded "[[File:Tile push example.png]]"
01:55:05 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103783&oldid=103781 * Dtp09 * (+12) /* Push */
01:55:31 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103784&oldid=103783 * Dtp09 * (+44) /* Explanation of Commands */
03:13:52 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103785&oldid=101604 * Squidmanescape * (+112) /* Hello, World! */
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06:23:18 <zzo38> Recently, I played the GURPS game (role playing game).
06:23:27 <zzo38> My character cannot fly fast enough to catch the pigeon, so instead I paid them to send another one after the first one, with a note to disregard the previous message. (I do not know what the previous message says, but I suspect they are trying to discredit or frame me or something like that.)
06:23:35 <zzo38> And then, once we reached the destination, the inspector said that they think we have illegal cargo and have to search it before we can come out, and they said that it would take all day, even though normally it takes only one hour. It seem that they are trying to delay us. So, we untied the ship while they were searching it, in order to go to a different shore, and then the people searching it jumped into the water.
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10:04:47 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103786&oldid=101753 * Kordalia * (+185) Rockstar implementation
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13:04:08 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103787&oldid=103538 * Mario0Fan * (+1) /* Commands */
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18:38:07 <esolangs> [[Dot's]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103788&oldid=103438 * Ilikecreepers * (+45) /* the hold on to your stuff it's going to get more complcated stuff/multi operations */
18:53:42 <b_jonas> so apparently there are sixteen trigonometric functions conventionally defined: sine, cosine, tangent, cotangent, secant, cosecant, versine, coversine, vercosine, covercosine, haversine, hacoversine, havercosine, hacovercosine, exsecant, excosecant. plus each one has an inverse function named with the "arc" prefix. now I'm imagining a calculator that has three trigonometric function buttons
18:53:48 <b_jonas> unconventionally labeled "sin", "tan", "sec", plus four modifier buttons, one for inverse labelled "inv/arc/area", one for hyperbolic functions labeled "hyp", one that's just called "co", and one multi-function one labeled "ver/ex/ha"
18:54:29 <b_jonas> and you have to press the modifiers not only in the right multiplicity but also in the right order to distinguish vercosine from coversine
18:56:57 <b_jonas> it doesn't seem like there are such things yet as hasine, vertangent, exsine, versecant, haexsecant, and I don't know if there are any extended hyperbolic functions. maybe we can get Taneb to invent some of these.
18:57:17 <HackEso> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, linear logic, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, Stone spaces, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
18:59:32 <b_jonas> also obviously the calculator would have a physical rad/deg/grad switch
19:08:59 <olsner> https://github.com/olsner/pf/ hey, I found an esolang I apparently made 13 years ago :) no documentation
19:10:19 <b_jonas> olsner: do you mean that that's one that you made?
19:13:22 <olsner> b_jonas: yeah, found the repo on my private git server earlier so copied it over to github
19:14:16 <olsner> not quite sure how it works (and if it's possible to write any programs in it), but starting to figure out some things at least
19:16:23 <olsner> or.. of course it's possible to write programs, they might just not be able to do anything useful
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20:50:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103789&oldid=103766 * Pichi * (+163)
20:50:40 <esolangs> [[ALPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103790&oldid=35538 * Pichi * (+92) Minor formatting edits, added Truth-machine program.
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21:00:07 <esolangs> [[Koyaanisqatsi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103791&oldid=103753 * Alikberov * (+813) /* Few details */
21:00:16 <esolangs> [[User:Alikberov]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103792&oldid=103507 * Alikberov * (+118) /* Links to my pages */
21:11:58 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103793&oldid=103784 * Dtp09 * (-35) /* Interpreter */
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02:15:53 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103794&oldid=103793 * Dtp09 * (+115) /* Commands */
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03:19:23 <esolangs> [[Lambda Calculus Primer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103795&oldid=103765 * LarhoCherqi * (-15) whoops
03:23:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:LarhoCherqi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103796 * LarhoCherqi * (+31) i could put a scavenger hunt here but i'd rather put something ominous instead
03:34:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Dtp09 * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Hello world tile.png]]"
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09:45:16 <wib_jonas> I think at one point I had a third very old oy interpreter next to my scan and geo toy interpreters, but when I looked it up I haven't found it anywhere, so it's probably lost. All I remember is that it has a built-in operator spelled _ that computes falling power, eg. 20_4 would compute 20*19*18*17.
09:46:19 <wib_jonas> I think it was more limited than scan and geo, to calculator level, where you can make neither arrays nor define functions, and probably can't even write loops.
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11:44:43 <esolangs> [[Koyaanisqatsi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103798&oldid=103791 * Alikberov * (-813) Undo revision 103791 by [[Special:Contributions/Alikberov|Alikberov]] ([[User talk:Alikberov|talk]])
11:45:10 <esolangs> [[Koyaanisqatsi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103799&oldid=103798 * Alikberov * (-1653) Undo revision 103753 by [[Special:Contributions/Alikberov|Alikberov]] ([[User talk:Alikberov|talk]])
11:50:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Alikberov * moved [[Koyaanisqatsi]] to [[User talk:Koy-Code]]: too raw man
12:00:10 <esolangs> [[Koyaanisqatsi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103802&oldid=103801 * Alikberov * (+9324) /* K for Koyaanisqatsi */
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14:27:41 <KmpGUEST> Do you guys do any kind of community programming events?
14:28:07 <KmpGUEST> I came across the wiki a couple days ago and went through some of the chat logs and this seems like it would be a good community to learn
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14:46:09 <myname> i can see this, but i think, most "real" programming events would be relatively offtopic
14:46:49 <wib_jonas> KmpGUEST: some regulars here solve the problems on https://adventofcode.com/ in December, and there's some monthly optimization challenge somewhere that some people solve. does that count?
14:46:52 <myname> like, an event for programming in most esolangs is probably not that interesting, besides a few notable exceptions, and programming in haskell or something isn't really on topic
14:47:31 <wib_jonas> also sometimes there are meme-ish short games or problems that someone posts here and then multiple people get interested
14:53:55 <wib_jonas> oh, and there is sometimes an ongoing Bfjoust league, that might count as community programming
14:54:58 <wib_jonas> see https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust for that
14:55:19 <wib_jonas> I don't know whether there's a league currently active or not
15:00:48 <myname> getting into bf jousting is pretty hard, though
15:01:26 <wib_jonas> yes, Advent of Code is much easier
15:27:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Alikberov * uploaded "[[File:Koyaanisqatsi proto 2019.png]]": This is the prototype of Koyaanisqatsi-CPU of 2019. The command decoder is just ROM.
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18:28:56 <esolangs> [[SuperScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103805&oldid=103723 * Yes * (+203)
18:29:47 <esolangs> [[SubScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103806 * Yes * (+30) Created page with "#REDIRECT SuperScript#Wimpmode"
18:30:38 <esolangs> [[SubScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103807&oldid=103806 * Yes * (+26)
18:31:00 <esolangs> [[SubScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103808&oldid=103807 * Yes * (-26)
18:31:59 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103809&oldid=103721 * Yes * (+0) Yes changed the content model of the page [[User:Yes]] from "wikitext" to "plain text": curious
18:31:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/contentmodel]] change * Yes * Yes changed the content model of the page [[User:Yes]] from "wikitext" to "plain text": curious
18:32:18 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103810&oldid=103809 * Yes * (+0) Yes changed the content model of the page [[User:Yes]] from "plain text" to "wikitext": back
18:32:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/contentmodel]] change * Yes * Yes changed the content model of the page [[User:Yes]] from "plain text" to "wikitext": back
18:34:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Daw * New user account
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18:39:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103811&oldid=103789 * Daw * (+204) /* Introductions */
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19:44:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crab * New user account
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20:26:56 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me, we forgot something
20:27:03 <HackEso> KmpGUEST: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:27:59 <b_jonas> by the way I'll be in Germany the week after the next
20:28:09 <KmpGUEST> do you think you guys could all band together and make a good non-esoteric language
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21:22:41 <esolangs> [[Turimg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103812&oldid=100262 * Zip * (+75) added delic link
21:45:04 <esolangs> [[Selt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103813&oldid=100426 * Zip * (+72) /* Interpreter */
21:45:25 <esolangs> [[Selt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103814&oldid=103813 * Zip * (+0)
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02:38:53 <esolangs> [[Yasbe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103815 * Lim95 * (+2004) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=YASBE |author=[[Lim95]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |memsys=[[:Category:Stack-based|Stack-based]] |dimensions=One-dimensional |files=<code>.txt</cod..."
02:39:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Lim95 * moved [[Yasbe]] to [[YASBE]]
02:40:52 <esolangs> [[YASBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103818&oldid=103816 * Lim95 * (+22)
02:41:13 <esolangs> [[YASBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103819&oldid=103818 * Lim95 * (+14)
02:51:06 <esolangs> [[User:Lim95]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103820&oldid=99760 * Lim95 * (+49)
03:03:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Lim95 * uploaded "[[File:YASBE-Small.jpg]]"
03:04:20 <esolangs> [[User:Lim95]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103822&oldid=103820 * Lim95 * (+91)
03:04:23 <esolangs> [[YASBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103823&oldid=103819 * Lim95 * (+44)
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07:56:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Fasolillo * New user account
08:02:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103824&oldid=103811 * Fasolillo * (+125) /* Introductions */
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14:05:01 <esolangs> [[YASBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103825&oldid=103823 * Lim95 * (+405)
14:28:09 <esolangs> [[YASBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103826&oldid=103825 * Lim95 * (+60)
14:30:10 <esolangs> [[YASBE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103827&oldid=103826 * Lim95 * (+98)
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14:54:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hotcat927 * New user account
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16:58:34 <esolangs> [[User:Lim95]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103828&oldid=103822 * Lim95 * (-6)
17:03:44 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103829&oldid=103658 * Lim95 * (+57)
17:09:52 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103830&oldid=103829 * Lim95 * (+80)
17:10:37 <esolangs> [[Binin++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103831&oldid=93326 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+56) Stub, add categories
17:11:31 <esolangs> [[Binin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103832&oldid=95855 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+56) Stub, categories
17:12:09 <esolangs> [[Binin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103833&oldid=103832 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+29) /* See also */
17:12:38 <esolangs> [[Binin++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103834&oldid=103831 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) Add categories
17:13:01 <esolangs> [[User:Lim95]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103835&oldid=103828 * Lim95 * (+88)
17:13:26 <esolangs> [[User:Lim95]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103836&oldid=103835 * Lim95 * (+42)
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19:50:50 <b_jonas> ais523: looks like there are other people who still use diaresis when writing english: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/06/marathon-man has "reënter" twice
19:53:08 <shachaf> The New Yorker famously uses it.
19:54:10 <fizzie> << “So we’re competing against a fuel cell for the available oxygen?” Arsibalt asked. “Think of it as coöperation.” >> from Neal Stephenson's Anathem.
19:59:47 <fizzie> The book also has two other instances of "coöperation" in an unrelated section, as well as a single case of "reëstablished". Plus a few involving made-up words, which may not count.
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21:20:50 <esolangs> [[HQ9funge!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103837&oldid=103673 * Oshaboy * (+0) IDK why it was 2018
21:22:47 <esolangs> [[Basic Programming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103838&oldid=101313 * Oshaboy * (-1) typo
21:23:20 <zzo38> In tarot cards, the meaning of the Fool is: Even if you have a card of the correct suit, you are allowed to play the Fool instead (keeping your other cards for later), but it always loses.
21:23:48 <zzo38> Can something similar be done in Magic: the Gathering? Possibly, like: If you would discard a card, you may instead reveal that card and play ~.
21:29:42 <b_jonas> I was recently wondering about spelling. I'm currently using the spellings "archæology" and "paleontology", but I was wondering if I would have to start using "palæontology" for consistency
21:30:04 <b_jonas> well, I actually mostly use "archaeology" rather than "archæology"
21:31:53 <b_jonas> but it's probably not really inconsistent, so I can keep the spellings that I use
21:34:27 <b_jonas> on the other hand, I figured I should try to pay attention to pronounce in Hungarian "autentikáció" as six syllables, like "aŭtentikáció", but "autorizáció" as seven syllables, like "a-utorizáció", to reflect their different etymologies
21:42:21 <esolangs> [[Double]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103839&oldid=103148 * Zip * (-20) changed a lot of <code> tags to <pre> tags, to make newlines appear correctly
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09:12:40 <int-e> WTF, "everything app"... we've done this already. It was called AOL.
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09:32:44 <wib_jonas> int-e: it's called Facebook. it can send messages to other users, reencode images to ridiculously low quality jpegs, and farming simulation games
09:33:43 <int-e> it was a portal with messaging, index of web sites... everything the internet had to offer at the time
09:34:02 <int-e> I genuinely believe that this is quite analogous.
09:34:17 <int-e> email too, how could I forget
09:35:13 <int-e> The point is, such an app will probably reproduce this portal idea.
09:35:21 <int-e> Or it'll be a generic web browser.
09:35:29 <int-e> Either way it's not innovative at all.
09:35:57 <int-e> Of course given that it's an idea by Musk that much was expected.
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09:51:09 <sknebel> probably more like Wechat etc
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10:03:35 <wib_jonas> Google's website is also basically an everything app, they just don't call it "app".
10:03:58 <wib_jonas> They have email, web search, file storage, calculator, a spreadsheet program, and a lot more
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11:53:56 <wib_jonas> is rnooodl required to work in a setuid context, where euid!=ruid? asking for the reimplementation.
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16:47:08 <int-e> tromp: Ponder This! seems harder this month. That is, the totally naive search doesn't seem to finish in reasonable time.
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19:27:42 <zzo38> Why are they (apparently) reintroducing a problem with names that they have previously fixed?
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21:46:45 <esolangs> [[Home Row]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103840&oldid=83242 * BoundedBeans * (+235) Added interpreter, fixed minor typo in proof
21:49:46 <esolangs> [[Bellbase]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103841&oldid=102944 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
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23:30:30 <esolangs> [[Yet Another Musical Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103842&oldid=103661 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+30)
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23:45:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Joe * New user account
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23:48:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103843&oldid=103824 * Joe * (+128) My Introduction
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23:53:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Home Row]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103844&oldid=61136 * BoundedBeans * (+312)
23:53:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:Home Row]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103845&oldid=103844 * BoundedBeans * (+97) Signed my edit, oops
00:06:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ais523 * moved [[User talk:Koy-Code]] to [[User:Alikberov/Koy-Code]]: page was userfied to the wrong namespace
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00:43:47 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103847&oldid=103746 * SpaceByte * (+1105) major 1.2 updates
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01:05:49 <esolangs> [[User:Theki/Dummy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103848&oldid=103569 * Theki * (+1) /* Syntax */ correction
01:07:43 <esolangs> [[Legend]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103849 * Joe * (+4419) Added the legend language
01:11:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103850&oldid=103752 * Joe * (+13) Added legend
01:13:43 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103851&oldid=103590 * Joe * (+1733) Legend
01:16:42 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103852&oldid=103851 * Joe * (+12)
01:20:35 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103853&oldid=103852 * Joe * (+15)
01:20:40 <esolangs> [[Legend]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103854&oldid=103849 * Joe * (+26)
01:21:47 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103855&oldid=103853 * Joe * (+83)
01:21:59 <esolangs> [[Legend]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103856&oldid=103854 * Joe * (+83)
01:22:20 <esolangs> [[Legend]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103857&oldid=103856 * Joe * (-1)
01:25:03 <esolangs> [[Legend]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103858&oldid=103857 * Joe * (+233)
01:25:19 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103859&oldid=103855 * Joe * (+232)
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04:35:08 <esolangs> [[Legend]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103860&oldid=103858 * Aspwil * (-24) fixed text going off page due to no wrap, fixed program having extra newlines
04:37:29 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103861&oldid=103859 * Aspwil * (-67) /* Legend */ fixed extra newlines added in program
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10:45:41 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103862&oldid=103774 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+36) /* Input */
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14:00:47 <b_jonas> the brilliant part about "authorization" and "authentication" is that "authorization" derives from the word "author", but it's "authentication" that's concerned with determining who the author is. etymology often doesn't make sense. and in this case it's not even entirely the fault of English, only partially.
14:01:16 <b_jonas> basically "author" had multiple meanings even in latin, and english just chose the one that results in this unfortunate situation
14:03:55 <int-e> there's also "authority" in the mix which is closer to "authorization"
14:23:01 <b_jonas> whereas "authorization" derives from the greek word "auto", which means self, and so is closer to authentication
14:23:56 <b_jonas> obviously at this point it would be a bad idea to just swap the meanings back, rather if we don't like the etymology we should just replace them with unrelated words
14:25:18 <int-e> I have bigger gripes.
14:25:34 <int-e> No. 1 is "inflamable". No. 2 are the pronunciations of "finite" and "infinite".
14:26:01 <int-e> Or inflammable. That double-m is also getting me a lot.
14:39:49 <b_jonas> int-e: how about the pronunciation of "sign" and "signal", or of "cycle" and "bicycle"?
14:40:31 <b_jonas> there are probably word choices that we could popularize instead of authentication and authorization that have just as many problems
14:40:39 <int-e> I don't mind those as much, they tend to appear in different contexts.
14:41:50 <b_jonas> different context? cycle and bicycle mean literally the same vehicle
14:42:33 <int-e> I don't call the vehicle that. (Though there is "cycling")
14:42:52 <int-e> cycles are for graphs ;)
14:43:07 <b_jonas> do you call it bike, which many people use for motorbikes? I approve of that, it's nicely ambiguous
14:44:19 <b_jonas> also what do you call the verb to ride on such a vehicle? cycle, bicycle, bike, or just ride?
14:45:00 <b_jonas> or pedal perhaps, which is derived from a word that means foot and is related to pedestrian, so basically means to walk on foot
14:46:01 <fizzie> Don't mind me, I'm just peddling my bicloid.
14:47:23 <b_jonas> I guess you could call the vehicle velo, short for velocipède, which must means fast walking on foot or running based on its etymology
14:47:42 <b_jonas> er, vélo and vélocipède presumably
14:50:04 <b_jonas> heck, why not call it fiets, which has an unclear etymology but sounds like the english word feets, so also clearly means walking on foot
14:53:23 <b_jonas> heck, just call it "kerékpár", the less often used formal word for a bicycle in Hungarian, which means pair of wheels, and as such sounds like it's a mirror translation for bicycle invented by Kazinczy, although I don't think it actually is because bicycles were rare back then
14:55:33 <b_jonas> or call it the somewhat less obvious but still descriptive pejorative word "drótszamár"
14:56:00 <int-e> b_jonas: I call it a bike or a bicycle, depeding.
14:58:10 <int-e> Let's go with riding :P
14:58:29 <int-e> Just to sidestep the discussion. (See also above where I already admitted that the verb is problemantic.)
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20:03:58 <b_jonas> I would like to suggest "engedélyezés" as the confusing alternative for "authorization". It means something close enough, but it comes from "enged" which means permit, and while it has an unclear etymology, you could suspect that it is related to "én" or "engem", and thus should mean authentication rather than authorization.
20:04:17 <b_jonas> but I don't know of a good replacement for "authentication" that would be similarly confusing etymologically
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20:21:02 <sprout> what about 'blessing'?
20:22:55 <b_jonas> no no no. we need long names, not short easy to understand ones.
20:23:34 <b_jonas> it's 6 syllable words that we're potentially replacing
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01:27:38 <esolangs> [[E]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103863 * Joe * (+2111) Created page with "== Introduction == In music, there are a couple rare marks known as "Double flat" and "Double sharp". While a sharp or a flat raises or lowers the pitch half a tone, respectiv..."
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05:29:04 <esolangs> [[!aBF']] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103864&oldid=82995 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+102) /* Implementations */
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09:05:53 <int-e> fungot: are you decentralized?
09:05:54 <fungot> int-e: if the thing is dying in the guts of interpreters down, then
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10:14:48 <b_jonas> wow, my home computer locked up somehow
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11:13:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GamingMod * New user account
11:44:45 <esolangs> [[Rozpach]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103865 * PoetLuchnik * (+5239) add Rozpach programming language
11:48:23 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103866&oldid=103850 * PoetLuchnik * (+14) /* R */ add link to Rozpach page
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12:13:07 <fizzie> Ooh, pretty well targeted phishing. I'm using SendGrid's free tier for the esolangs.org email features (after too many delivery problems from a private mail server), which is possible to discover from public information (for example, from the SPF record), and this email is pretty professional-looking (well, as much as one can tell without rendering the HTML) message saying service for
12:13:09 <fizzie> "esolangs.org" failed to auto-renew and asking me to update my billing information, with just slight mismatch between the visible URLs and the actual `href`s.
12:13:18 <fizzie> Okay, some points have to be deducted because the server address -- Sendgrid Renewal Team <info@apisnet.it> -- is kind of obviously wrong.
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15:34:15 <int-e> fizzie: yeah a lot of spam seems to rely on clients just displaying the names (or, alternatively, users ignoring the "cryptic" part)
15:36:05 <int-e> I'm not sure how fair it is to put "cryptic" in quotes there.
15:37:05 <int-e> (I think it's actually unfair to the general population. Hmm, how can I say this without sounding supremely elitist?)
15:38:31 <int-e> For Ponder This! I'm that weird spot where I've solved the bonus problem and still struggle with the main task.
15:41:56 <int-e> (So I should probably look for a different approach)
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16:58:23 <b_jonas> ahahahah. I got an error message from a website with title "undefined" and text "undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined undefined
16:58:36 <b_jonas> undefined" where three of those words are links
16:58:56 <b_jonas> and then a second paragraph of text saying "undefined", also a link, and two buttons, "Decline" and "undefined"
16:59:00 <b_jonas> I think it's a cookies warning
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19:51:45 <b_jonas> apparently you can now buy a physical copy of TAOCP volume 4B, but I have to wait until after my vacation to get the e-book version
19:51:59 <b_jonas> I'll buy it when I return then
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21:15:11 <esolangs> [[User:Oshaboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103867&oldid=101680 * Oshaboy * (-15) /* Esolang Enhancements */
21:46:07 <esolangs> [[Hargfak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103868&oldid=22709 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+26) Category
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23:57:14 <esolangs> [[E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103869&oldid=103863 * Joe * (+58)
23:59:11 <esolangs> [[User:Joe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103870 * Joe * (+152) Created page with "I like creating esolangs that have something to do with math. Here are the ones I've made so far: * [[Legend]] * [[E]] other are in the making :)"
23:59:30 <esolangs> [[User:Joe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103871&oldid=103870 * Joe * (+28)
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00:35:34 <esolangs> [[THROBOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103872 * BoundedBeans * (+4954) Created page with "THROBOL is an esolang by [[User:BoundedBeans]] inspired by bowling. ==Syntax== It is laid out in a 2d grid, much like Befunge. ==Mechanics== ===Ball=== A ball is defined usi..."
00:36:09 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103873&oldid=103866 * BoundedBeans * (+14)
00:36:26 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103874&oldid=103169 * BoundedBeans * (+13)
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01:44:01 <esolangs> [[THROBOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103875&oldid=103872 * BoundedBeans * (+36) Added concurrent category
02:24:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LukeGrahamLandry * New user account
02:32:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103876&oldid=103843 * LukeGrahamLandry * (+248)
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05:55:48 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lizard * New user account
05:57:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103877&oldid=103876 * Lizard * (+98)
05:58:06 <esolangs> [[Poetic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103878&oldid=101256 * Lizard * (-7) Changed from before to at in the matching brainfuck section
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06:35:05 <shachaf> So there are 3+2 2-bit erasure codes, but no 4+2 codes. How do I know which codes there are?
06:35:46 <shachaf> Another surprising thing: For 3+2 codes, your first parity shard can be xor, so I thought it could equally well be sum mod 4. But it turns out that doesn't work. Why not?
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07:41:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Earthrulerr * New user account
07:55:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103879&oldid=103877 * Earthrulerr * (+168) /* Introductions */
07:56:30 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103880 * Earthrulerr * (+112) Programmer
08:35:27 <esolangs> [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103881&oldid=101366 * Earthrulerr * (+1413) /* Implementations */
08:46:39 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103882&oldid=103880 * Earthrulerr * (+551)
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11:09:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ASomeone * New user account
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14:15:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103883&oldid=97370 * Rdococ * (+144) /* Pretty sure there is no rational form of pi */ new section
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15:23:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GamingAstronamy * New user account
15:26:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103884&oldid=103879 * GamingAstronamy * (+151) /* Introductions */
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17:30:54 <esolangs> [[Colang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103885&oldid=103195 * Rdococ * (-413) Update for 0.3
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18:23:22 <esolangs> [[E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103886&oldid=103869 * Joe * (+53)
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18:39:34 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103887 * Joe * (+1943) Created page with "'''Smalc''' is a joke calculator (created to be better than Desmos) implemented as a project to learn Elixir. ==Spec== ===Literals=== There are no number literals in the cal..."
18:41:11 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103888&oldid=103887 * Joe * (-168)
18:41:25 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103889&oldid=103888 * Joe * (+1)
18:44:31 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103890&oldid=103889 * Joe * (+248)
18:44:48 <esolangs> [[User:Joe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103891&oldid=103871 * Joe * (+12)
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19:28:55 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103892&oldid=103009 * Rdococ * (+37)
19:29:02 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103893&oldid=103892 * Rdococ * (+0)
19:30:59 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ/Old]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103894&oldid=86649 * Rdococ * (-448) Remove self-pity
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19:33:22 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103895&oldid=103893 * Rdococ * (-59) Reordered
19:35:27 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103896&oldid=103885 * Rdococ * (+42) Add more categories
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20:33:40 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103897 * Earthrulerr * (+1015) Created SANTA~
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20:58:52 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103898&oldid=103768 * Earthrulerr * (+55) /* General languages */
20:59:45 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103899&oldid=103897 * Earthrulerr * (-1)
21:00:10 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103900&oldid=103899 * Earthrulerr * (+2)
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23:10:33 <esolangs> [[HQ9+: Functional Edition]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103901 * BoundedBeans * (+3445) Created page with "HQ9+: Functional Edition is an esolang by [[User:BoundedBeans]]. It is very clearly a derivative of [[HQ9+]], but not a joke and part of the functional paradigm. ==Functions=..."
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01:20:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Imcute * New user account
01:22:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103902&oldid=103884 * Imcute * (+86)
01:29:40 <esolangs> [[Parity]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103903 * Imcute * (+1044) Created page with "Parity is called this name due to its only 2 instruction list and its way of doing instructions an even number means to add 1 to the place of the number divided by 2 an odd nu..."
01:30:00 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103904&oldid=103903 * Imcute * (+9)
01:30:11 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103905&oldid=103904 * Imcute * (+10)
01:30:46 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103906&oldid=103905 * Imcute * (+21)
01:31:17 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103907&oldid=103906 * Imcute * (-2)
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01:33:06 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103908&oldid=103907 * Imcute * (+101)
01:34:53 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103909&oldid=103908 * Imcute * (+92)
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01:36:37 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103910&oldid=103873 * Imcute * (+13)
01:54:12 <esolangs> [[Parity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103911&oldid=103909 * Earthrulerr * (+35) added credits
01:55:49 <esolangs> [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103912&oldid=103881 * Earthrulerr * (-56) /* Implementations */
01:56:26 <esolangs> [[User:Imcute]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103913 * Imcute * (+104) Created page with "i go wheeee!<br> i code in javascript and many other programming languages.i do not code in machine code"
02:03:12 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103914&oldid=103882 * Earthrulerr * (+167)
02:03:29 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103915&oldid=103914 * Earthrulerr * (+1) /* Esolangs: */
02:03:40 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103916&oldid=103915 * Earthrulerr * (+0) /* Links/Other: */
02:03:57 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103917&oldid=103916 * Earthrulerr * (+5) /* Implementations: */
02:04:15 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103918&oldid=103917 * Earthrulerr * (+5) /* Esolangs: */
02:05:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Earthrulerr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103919 * Earthrulerr * (+17) Created page with "Talk about me?"
02:06:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103920&oldid=103919 * Earthrulerr * (-13)
02:46:45 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103921&oldid=103900 * Earthrulerr * (+0) /* Examples */
02:50:38 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103922&oldid=103921 * Earthrulerr * (+20) /* Implementation */
02:57:03 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103923&oldid=103922 * Earthrulerr * (+61) /* Input */
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10:00:31 <esolangs> [[User:Olus2000]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103924&oldid=99888 * Olus2000 * (+120) Added Ternary Recursion
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11:15:39 <esolangs> [[X7]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103925 * LyricLy * (+7261) Created page with "{{DISPLAYTITLE: {{#if: {{NAMESPACE}}|{{NAMESPACE}}:}}{{#if: {{{italic|}}} | {{#if: {{{force|}}} | ''{{lcfirst:{{PAGENAME}}}}'' | {{#invoke:MultiReplace|main|{{lcfirs..."
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11:49:38 <esolangs> [[X7]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103926&oldid=103925 * LyricLy * (+4673) The rest of it
11:50:50 <esolangs> [[X7]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103927&oldid=103926 * LyricLy * (+13) Formatting
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12:25:05 <esolangs> [[Colang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103928&oldid=103896 * Rdococ * (+3234) /* Examples */ Select better examples
12:52:37 <esolangs> [[X7]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103929&oldid=103927 * LyricLy * (-4) Wording
12:53:50 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103930&oldid=103928 * Rdococ * (+8) /* Control flow constructs */
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14:03:04 <ais523> b_jonas: thank you for letting me know about the diareses
14:03:50 <ais523> zzo38: what about "exile ~: return a card you discarded this turn to your hand" (you would need to exile it to prevent trivial infinite loops)
14:04:07 <ais523> or more likely "return target card you discarded this turn to your hand"
14:04:28 <ais523> might need "its owner's" but probably not because I don't think you can discard another player's card
14:07:30 <ais523> shachaf: my favourite erasure code works by using a finite field, and interpreting the elements of the codeword as the values of a polynomial
14:08:21 <ais523> e.g. the codeword 1,5,3,7 would correspond to the polynomial where y(0)=1, y(1)=5, y(2)=3, y(3)=7 (where 0, 1, 2, 3 are distinct elements of the finite field, not necessarily an arithmetic progression because some finite fields have 1+1=0)
14:09:07 <ais523> then, the valid codewords are those which have a degree less than a certain value, e.g. you might have 5-element codewords and the valid ones are those for which the resulting polynomial is quadratic (or linear or constant)
14:09:36 <ais523> it's trivial to see it's a valid erasure code because if you delete (in this case 2) elements from a codeword, you still have 3 left and are able to fit a unique quadratic to them
14:10:04 <ais523> however, this sort of code only works if the length of the codeword is less than or equal to the number of distinct elements in the field
14:10:26 <ais523> this makes me think it isn't surprising if erasure codes become harder to construct as the codeword gets longer
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15:15:37 <shachaf> ais523: I wrote https://twitter.com/shachaf/status/1579502430487990274 about this recently.
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15:31:45 <wib_jonas> ais523: how does that relate to secret sharing schemes, and would that follow the card to the library if you opted into Library of Leng's replacement? David Madore's winning IOCCC entry implements that scheme for the GF(2**8) field, but a secret sharing scheme has an extra requirement that you can't gain any information about the plain text if you
15:31:46 <wib_jonas> have one less than the necessary code characters.
15:32:45 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Neptune42 * New user account
15:39:32 <wib_jonas> from rule 400.7e no, it doesn't find your card in the library.
15:41:19 <wib_jonas> shachaf: ping for the same polynomial thing
15:41:22 <shachaf> wib_jonas: Yes, it's very close to secret sharing.
15:42:49 <shachaf> I think you just fit f(0) = your secret, f(1)...f(n) = random points, and then produce f(n+1)...f(n+p) = implied points
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21:59:38 <zzo38> The new rules for Magic: the Gathering are available now. They keep changing the character encoding, and sometimes change the line ending format too.
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22:57:19 <esolangs> [[E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103931&oldid=103886 * Joe * (-18)
22:57:53 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103932&oldid=103890 * Joe * (+28)
22:58:10 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103933&oldid=103932 * Joe * (-4)
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23:52:16 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103934&oldid=103232 * Imcute * (+159)
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00:33:53 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103935&oldid=103794 * Dtp09 * (+0) /* Commands */
00:36:16 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103936&oldid=103935 * Dtp09 * (+32)
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01:35:08 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103937&oldid=103936 * Dtp09 * (+188) /* Interpreter */
01:35:21 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103938&oldid=103937 * Dtp09 * (-2) /* Interpreter */
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01:56:14 <esolangs> [[X7]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103939&oldid=103929 * LyricLy * (+7) Fix masking examples
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14:35:59 <esolangs> [[Cappuccino]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103940&oldid=97066 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+82) Add categories
14:36:16 <esolangs> [[Cappuccino]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103941&oldid=103940 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) /* Hello, world! */ Fix category
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03:02:15 <esolangs> [[Smalc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103942&oldid=103933 * Joe * (+32)
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17:00:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Seggan * New user account
17:03:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103943&oldid=103902 * Seggan * (+172) Intro
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18:24:13 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103944&oldid=103930 * Rdococ * (+208)
18:26:32 <esolangs> [[Piet++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103945&oldid=65838 * SplatterWorthy * (+1286)
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18:37:05 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103946&oldid=103944 * Rdococ * (-203)
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18:51:56 <int-e> Oh, Ponder This! got defused... from finding an optimal solution to just finding a "good" one
19:04:59 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103947&oldid=103946 * Rdococ * (+288) Add infobox
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22:08:20 <esolangs> [[User:Shadow Kestrel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103948&oldid=98410 * Shadow Kestrel * (-192) /* What I'm Working On */
22:08:29 <esolangs> [[User:Shadow Kestrel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103949&oldid=103948 * Shadow Kestrel * (+125) /* My Esolangs */
22:09:32 <esolangs> [[User:Shadow Kestrel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103950&oldid=103949 * Shadow Kestrel * (+65)
22:09:51 <esolangs> [[User:Shadow Kestrel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103951&oldid=103950 * Shadow Kestrel * (+1) /* Delambda */
22:10:40 <esolangs> [[User:Shadow Kestrel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103952&oldid=103951 * Shadow Kestrel * (+12) /* My Esolangs */
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00:43:30 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103953&oldid=103938 * Dtp09 * (+2) /* Interpreter */
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01:46:22 <esolangs> [[Legend]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103954&oldid=103860 * Joe * (-8)
03:41:23 <esolangs> [[Burgeria]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103955 * Dtp09 * (+2197) Created page with "'''Burgeria''' is an esolang written by [[User:Dtp09]]. This esolang takes code in the form of a burger. Specifically, a burger one can create in the hit 2010 flash game "Papa..."
03:47:46 <esolangs> [[Burgeria]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103956&oldid=103955 * Dtp09 * (+98)
04:06:01 <zzo38> I had made up my own format for the Magic: the Gathering cards in computer, which in my opinion is better than the other ones that are known. For example: [aa ()/[move to=hand]] [ama ({3}{T})/[add-mana pool]] Some things are automatically implied, which shortens them, but you can also specify things explicitly more elaborately if needed.
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10:13:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hhayyatto * New user account
10:17:19 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103957&oldid=103943 * Hhayyatto * (+154)
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15:10:17 <b_jonas> TAOCP volume 4B is apparently available as the e-book now. (it wasn't yesterday.) I'm trying to buy from their website shop and get back to you when I can confirm that it's real
15:12:28 <b_jonas> "Enter a valid email address" your mom
15:23:02 <b_jonas> > Please enter an email address that does not contain the following characters: ! # $ % / ` { | } ~ ^ & * ( ) = + \ : ; " '
15:23:04 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:79: error: parse error on input ‘!’
15:25:53 <b_jonas> by the way that's about an email address that I am already using for an account on there stupid webshops, having bought the previous volumes
15:31:10 <sprout> drop%20table%2users;@mom.com
15:34:00 <b_jonas> sprout: are you not paying attention? they need an email address without semicolons
15:35:19 <sprout> drop%20table%20users%3b@mom.com
15:35:44 <sprout> then it's a question whether they url decode before or after the check
15:36:45 <int-e> it's okay, Bobby Tables is underrated
15:49:04 <b_jonas> I did manage to buy volume 4B, I can confirm that, but it wasn't trivial
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17:01:08 <esolangs> [[Mountain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103958&oldid=102284 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) Categories
17:01:29 <esolangs> [[Rozpach]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103959&oldid=103865 * PoetLuchnik * (+207) /* TinyRozpach */ cat program example
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18:23:13 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103960&oldid=103037 * Hakerh400 * (-199) Refactor user profile
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19:36:18 <esolangs> [[Pairwise addition]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103961 * Hakerh400 * (+4071) +[[Pairwise addition]]
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21:32:59 <zzo38> What opinion/comment of my ideas about Magic: the Gathering computer programming codes?
21:34:05 <zzo38> A few words might have different meanings when capitalized, such as "phyrexian" and "adventure"; most words are only valid in one form though
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22:01:55 <zzo38> (While there are other programs, I think that there are some problems with how those formats have been designed. However, even if writing a different program, if other programs are also FOSS then some things can also be used.)
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23:54:04 <esolangs> [[ROT-13]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103962&oldid=68250 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+130) Stub, categories
23:55:00 <esolangs> [[ROT13 encoder/decoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103963&oldid=40338 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+33) Distinguish confusion
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02:33:40 <esolangs> [[Numberlist]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103964&oldid=103603 * Dtp09 * (-8) /* Interpreter */
02:37:23 <esolangs> [[Moaiscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103965&oldid=103605 * Dtp09 * (-7) /* Interpreters */
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03:49:20 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103966&oldid=103847 * SpaceByte * (+291) CTTMM v1.3
04:10:40 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103967&oldid=101655 * SpaceByte * (+74) funny! (added click to ten mod manager clickclang)
04:12:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103968&oldid=103910 * SpaceByte * (+17) added clickclang (forgor to to before)
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06:01:58 <esolangs> [[Rozpach]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103969&oldid=103959 * PoetLuchnik * (-123) /* Truth-machine */ lighter version
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07:12:51 <esolangs> [[Rozpach]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103970&oldid=103969 * PoetLuchnik * (-227) /* Increment */ lighter version
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09:37:45 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103971&oldid=90265 * Nakilon * (-158) removed "try online" section
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09:49:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103972&oldid=98266 * Nakilon * (+241) /* IDK how to report bugs, nor where known wiki bugs could be already listed, so */ new section
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10:35:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103973&oldid=103972 * Fizzie * (+996) /* IDK how to report bugs, nor where known wiki bugs could be already listed, so */ Explanation
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11:38:59 <esolangs> [[Rozpach]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103974&oldid=103970 * PoetLuchnik * (+2828) /* TinyRozpach */ 99 bottles of beer program
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13:59:53 <esolangs> [[Pairwise addition]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103975&oldid=103961 * Hakerh400 * (-21)
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17:01:20 <esolangs> [[Rozpach]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103976&oldid=103974 * PoetLuchnik * (+404) /* TinyRozpach */ triangle example
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19:50:35 <shachaf> Taneb: What's the roguelike you normally play?
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20:39:10 <b_jonas> shachaf: the universe. at least I assume he plays it, because he invented it.
20:40:54 <HackEso> The Tanebventory is big. Really big. For one thing, it contains a Hilbert hotel.
20:41:46 <b_jonas> `? people who taneb is not
20:41:48 <HackEso> Taneb is not elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first, or anyone older than Queen Elizabeth the Second. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
21:16:08 <HackEso> Nicely formatted classical wisdoms and quotes book at https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
21:17:42 <HackEso> wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf
21:26:11 <HackEso> wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf
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21:48:23 <laerling> `learn ZOWIE MOV R0, 90 \n MOV R0, 79 \n MOV R0, 87 \n MOV R0, 73 \n MOV R0, 69
21:48:27 <HackEso> Learned 'zowie': ZOWIE MOV R0, 90 \n MOV R0, 79 \n MOV R0, 87 \n MOV R0, 73 \n MOV R0, 69
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09:55:07 <esolangs> [[!Tautologos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103977&oldid=69368 * Rdococ * (+77) Make sane
09:55:18 <esolangs> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103978&oldid=103977 * Rdococ * (-33)
09:56:25 <esolangs> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103979&oldid=103978 * Rdococ * (+2) /* Semantics */
09:58:46 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103980&oldid=103947 * Rdococ * (+146) Improve control construct example
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10:24:23 <esolangs> [[Colang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103981&oldid=103980 * Rdococ * (-2) /* Implementations */
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12:46:52 <int-e> `` for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done
12:46:55 <HackEso> cat: /dev/fd/62: No such file or directory \ 1
12:50:33 <fizzie> Huh, what's up with that? Locally it works in an interactive shell command line, but not in `bash -c '...'`.
12:50:57 <int-e> `` for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done 2>&1
12:50:58 <HackEso> 1 \ cat: /dev/fd/62: No such file or directory
12:51:19 <int-e> Ah, that "fixes" the order. *that* makes some sense.
12:51:34 <fizzie> Yeah, you often get stderr first for HackEso commands.
12:51:44 <fizzie> But I'm not sure how https://0x0.st/owiE.txt happens.
12:52:02 <int-e> Hmm, so what is your shell?
12:52:19 <int-e> odd. My interactive shell does the same thing as your bash -c
12:52:37 <int-e> Is there some shopt in play maybe?
12:53:10 <fizzie> Just checking: `readlink /proc/$$/exe` => /usr/bin/bash
12:53:16 <fizzie> Maybe it's an option of some sort.
12:54:21 <fizzie> Diffing `shopt` vs. `bash -c shopt`, the differences are: expand_aliases, extglob and histappend are all on instead of off, and hostcomplete is off instead of on.
12:55:55 <fizzie> `` bash -c 'shopt -s expand_aliases extglob histappend; shopt -u hostcomplete; for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done'
12:56:02 <fizzie> I guess one of those does make a difference
12:56:25 <fizzie> Seems to be expand_aliases.
12:56:46 <int-e> `` echo 0; for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done
12:56:53 <int-e> `` true; for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done
12:57:10 <fizzie> So it's just the act of there being a command (like my shopt) before it.
12:57:36 <fizzie> That's just plain weird.
12:57:59 <int-e> `` true | for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done
12:58:01 <HackEso> cat: /dev/fd/62: No such file or directory \ 1
12:58:25 <int-e> `` true; ( for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; done )
12:58:38 <fizzie> Uh. I opened a new shell in my screen, and in it it again fails to work.
12:58:46 <fizzie> Like, from the interactive command line.
12:58:52 <fizzie> Even if I run some other commands before.
12:58:58 <fizzie> But in a different screen window, it works.
12:59:51 <fizzie> Of course in the non-working window, if I prefix `true;` on the same input line, it works.
12:59:55 <int-e> is it the same host and the same (version of) the executable?
13:00:30 <int-e> Anyway... I can't even decide whether this is a bug.
13:00:34 <fizzie> Well, as much as $BASH_VERSION can tell.
13:00:53 <int-e> `` sha1sum /proc/$$/exe
13:00:54 <HackEso> 0533efae0065e72c1d833b9f7a678a20995bd5a6 /proc/49/exe
13:01:17 <int-e> ...of course it could be a shared library difference, at which point things become tricky :P
13:01:52 <b_jonas> "often get stderr first for HackEso commands." => that's because there's a stupid rnoooooooodl in between
13:02:03 <b_jonas> but only in between stdout, not between stderr
13:03:48 <fizzie> It's the same according to `sha1sum /proc/$$/exe` as well. How does that work if the binary changes, incidentally? And would it make a difference if the binary gets deleted and recreated (in which case I assume the `exe` symlink would go to that special "(deleted)" mode) vs. just rewritten in-place (which might keep it as-is)?
13:04:43 <fizzie> I think it's just something in the shell's state, but the other shell's been alive since Oct 2, so I can't exactly tell what I might have done in it that would make it work.
13:05:05 <fizzie> Giving up and going for breakfast instead.
13:06:10 <b_jonas> `run echo one|(echo two|(cat /dev/fd/$u /dev/fd/$v){v}<&0){u}<&0
13:06:37 <int-e> Ah, found a host with zsh; zsh seems to keep the fds open for the duration of the loop.
13:07:28 <b_jonas> "rewritten in-place" => IIRC Linux usually doesn't allow you to do that with a binary that you are running. it's mmapping in a special super-locked way. you can unlink and replace with a different executable, or write the new executable to a build directory and then move it in which would be the normal way
13:08:22 <b_jonas> this is one of the very few things that Linux doesn't allow even root to do, even when they specifically ask to yes really do it
13:08:29 <b_jonas> the other is writing into a file that's used as a kernel module
13:08:41 <b_jonas> but don't trust any of this, I'm saying it only from memory
13:08:53 <b_jonas> in any case it's a "don't do that" thing
13:09:10 <b_jonas> replacing the link with a new file is fine of course
13:09:18 <int-e> > for i in <(true) <(true); do echo $i <(true); done
13:09:19 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:7: error: parse error on input ‘in’
13:09:24 <int-e> `` for i in <(true) <(true); do echo $i <(true); done
13:09:25 <HackEso> /dev/fd/63 /dev/fd/61 \ /dev/fd/62 /dev/fd/63
13:09:48 <int-e> note that /dev/fd/63 is getting reused after the first command completed... so weird.
13:10:06 <int-e> but not if you prefix the loop by an extra command.
13:10:35 <b_jonas> int-e: maybe it's like nondeterministic depending on when the processes finish? try to add a sleep
13:10:45 <b_jonas> `run for i in <(true) <(true); do echo $i <(true); done
13:10:46 <HackEso> /dev/fd/63 /dev/fd/61 \ /dev/fd/62 /dev/fd/63
13:10:55 <b_jonas> `run for i in <(sleep 1; true) <(sleep 1; true); do echo $i <(sleep 1; true); done
13:10:57 <HackEso> /dev/fd/63 /dev/fd/61 \ /dev/fd/62 /dev/fd/63
13:11:03 <fizzie> b_jonas: I know that happens with daemons I've started from systemd (I occasionally try to replace them with `cat ~/thing > /usr/loca/bin/thing` as a way of not having the permissions change) but I kind of thought it depended on how the executable was started. But maybe it's true for everything.
13:11:09 <b_jonas> except we know sleep behaves silly on HAckEso for some reason
13:11:47 <int-e> b_jonas: nah, adding `sleep 10` doesn't make a difference
13:12:44 <int-e> b_jonas: I'm testing locally, not on HackEso
13:12:55 <b_jonas> fizzie: in that case thing is usually a shebang executable, not a true native executable, so you can replace it just fine
13:13:16 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: zsh: command not found
13:14:55 <b_jonas> you probably don't need to know this, but I would only do this for eso purposes; for normal stuff I'd give up trying to understand bash before this point and use something else to spawn the programs
13:17:15 <int-e> fungot: which is worse, watching milk boil or watching SAT solver progress?
13:17:16 <fungot> int-e: ( assigning) or ( define ( sum-of-squares-two-largest x y z...)
13:18:09 <esolangs> [[Colang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103982&oldid=103981 * Rdococ * (+12) Rename language to Tinytalk
13:18:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Rdococ * moved [[Colang]] to [[Tinytalk]]: Renamed programming language
13:18:50 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103985&oldid=103895 * Rdococ * (+2) Rename Colang to Tinytalk
13:19:02 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103986&oldid=103985 * Rdococ * (+0)
13:19:17 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103987&oldid=103983 * Rdococ * (+0)
13:19:54 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103988&oldid=103987 * Rdococ * (+0) Adjust capitalization
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13:28:16 <int-e> b_jonas: you're probably right.
13:29:26 <int-e> (I'm (still) playing around with the Ponder This! challenge, to see whether I can narrow the gap between upper and lower bounds that I have...)
13:30:05 <int-e> And the problem is so messy that SAT solving is the best approach I have for upper bounds at least.
13:32:12 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103989&oldid=103986 * Rdococ * (+451) Add refurbished languages
13:40:39 <b_jonas> I don't usually look at it
13:46:16 <int-e> https://research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/October2022.html
13:47:08 <int-e> Funnily enough it originally asked for ab optimal solution... I guess nobody managed that.
13:52:15 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103990&oldid=103988 * Rdococ * (+2)
13:57:33 <b_jonas> do we have a link to ponderthis from the wisdome?
13:57:42 <HackEso> aoc Advent of Code (AoC) is a series of programming puzzles that some regulars enjoy, found at "https://adventofcode.com/about"
14:01:49 <int-e> I guess https://research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/index.shtml would be the canonical link
14:03:23 <int-e> 100M conflicts and still going strong... such resilience
14:21:45 <b_jonas> what would be the canonical wisdom name? ponderthis or ponder this ? I wish we just had synonyms in wisdom and didn't have such problems.
14:22:44 <int-e> @where+ ponder https://research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/index.shtml
14:23:41 <int-e> b_jonas: whichever one you pick we'll get it wrong 50% of the time anyway :P
14:24:18 <int-e> (or more, "ponder" is a serious contender in my brain)
14:25:15 <b_jonas> well, we can also teach stuff like this to perlbot or even to fungоt, and perlbot at least doesn't have a taboo against synonyms, so then you'd have even more chance of being wrong by asking the wrong bot
14:26:39 <b_jonas> plus HackEso has tomfoolery and whatis too
14:30:45 <int-e> `whatis tomfoolery
14:30:47 <HackEso> tomfoolery(1hackeso) - no description
14:35:30 <fungot> b_jonas: you might be interested." " hey, you're fnord the car cdr procedures access the components of pairs.
14:36:57 <HackEso> tom? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ tm? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ ™? ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:13:47 <int-e> tomfoolery can often be found at http://radar.spacebar.org/
15:22:03 <int-e> look if you give me dots I'm going to connect them
16:13:32 <earend1> fungot, what's your opinion on chauvinism?
16:14:00 <fungot> earend1: i see. i thought all packages were installed automatically and which ones to fnord' redirect works only when i can't? damn... well... whatever...
16:14:56 <earend1> fungot, kennedy was murdered by mutants.
16:14:56 <fungot> earend1: course. :) ( even if you say that is the condition system. the second book, soo......
16:17:26 <earend1> in times you're easier to conduct with, than the folks having taken over freenode. wahre kommunikation ist nur unter gleichen moeglich.
16:18:06 <earend1> fungot: pfeiff nicht wenn du pisst!
16:18:06 <fungot> earend1: christi i like you, so we can stop and you start with the assumption that you are not used because they're heavy. still continuations are not explicit?
16:18:10 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:18:33 <HackEso> int-e: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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17:23:32 <zzo38> Can you visit an Attraction that is a non-Astrotorium card copying a Astrotorium card (or an Astrotorium card copying another one), or if it somehow loses its subtypes? Lights are not mentioned as the object's characteristics, and it is unclear if it is supposed to count as part of its initial text.
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18:35:07 <earend1> int-e: true | for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do cat $i; // it fails because cat starts its own process?
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18:35:46 <HackEso> cat: '<(true) <(true) ': No such file or directory
18:36:50 <earend1> `true | for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do printf '[%s]' "$i"; done
18:37:52 <HackEso> cat: '< <(echo 1)': No such file or directory
18:38:36 <HackEso> type? No such file or directory
18:40:01 <HackEso> GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ Copyright (C) 2019 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> \ \ This is free software; you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
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18:57:20 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103991&oldid=103990 * Rdococ * (-25)
19:04:58 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ/Old]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103992&oldid=103894 * Rdococ * (-343)
19:44:33 <fizzie> Plain '`foo' doesn't run in a shell.
19:44:56 <fizzie> So you want '`run ...` or '`` ...` (which just invokes /hackenv/bin/`) to do anything that involves shell stuff.
19:59:54 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103993&oldid=103991 * Rdococ * (+505) /* Lists */
20:00:17 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103994&oldid=103993 * Rdococ * (+2) /* Lists */
20:00:59 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103995&oldid=103994 * Rdococ * (-132) /* Lists */
20:12:34 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103996&oldid=103995 * Rdococ * (+117) /* Lists */ Explain example better
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21:53:55 <int-e> `` for i in <(echo 1) <(echo 2); do read j < $i; echo $j; done
21:53:56 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: /dev/fd/62: No such file or directory \ 1 \ 1
21:55:54 <int-e> (Only two subprocesses (for `<(...)`) here, I think? I don't know. It's usually enough that it "just works".
22:21:47 <int-e> Anyway, this seems to come down to the shell deciding to close FDs 62 and 63 at different times: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/iKkI5h7a [Also why does Debian's paste hate this one?]
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23:03:28 <b_jonas> have anyone else here bought TAOCP vol 4B yet? just curious
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00:12:36 <int-e> ... savannah.gnu.org just went down?
00:13:52 <shachaf> b_jonas: I bought some fascicles.
00:15:08 <int-e> I read some of the pre-fascicles. Not sure yet about buying the book... if anything it'll be a christmas thing I guess.
00:15:34 <int-e> I'm definitely not in a hurry
00:16:01 <int-e> hmm... apart from kissat, what other sat solver should I throw at this
00:17:18 <int-e> I wish http://satcompetition.org/ would list winners for 2019-2021 as well.
00:17:49 <int-e> At... I guess something that qualifies as a "hard combinatorial problem" (cf. https://research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/October2022.html )
00:19:58 <shachaf> From what I remember of the SAT solver competition results, vbs was a very good solver.
00:20:31 <shachaf> (Sorry, I don't know which solvers are state-of-the-art these days.)
00:21:00 <int-e> (Or the individual competition pages. Sure, the information is there somewhere... result CSVs for the tracks, huge submissions tarballs, proceedings... but they're not accessible)
00:22:01 <int-e> Hmm. This maybe? https://github.com/simewu/top-SAT-solvers-2021
00:25:31 <int-e> (not the github link; the reference to VBS)
00:30:34 <int-e> TIL what vivification is in SAT solving
00:30:57 <int-e> shachaf: It's okay, I just took way longer to realize than I like.
00:31:36 <int-e> Nah you had reason to believe that I should know that acronym.
00:32:14 <int-e> And I have encountered it before.
00:32:35 <shachaf> Hmm, I don't know what vivification is.
00:33:55 <int-e> It's for removal of redundant literals from clauses... https://home.mis.u-picardie.fr/~cli/clauseVivificationPublishedVersion.pdf is what I looked at.
00:36:35 <int-e> The other thing I'm wondering is whether there's anything bad about using a sorting network for encoding a cardinality constraint "at least n out of 148".
00:38:36 <shachaf> When is a literal redundant?
00:39:13 <shachaf> I guess their answer is "when the clause without that literal is implied by the other clauses".
00:39:20 <int-e> shachaf: The criterion they use is that l is redundant in l v C if asserting ~C and unit propagation lead to a conflict.
00:39:45 <b_jonas> I think for just getting 108 on the ponder this you don't need a SAT solver
00:40:40 <shachaf> That seems kind of expensive to check!
00:40:41 <int-e> b_jonas: Yeah, and not for 110 either.
00:40:44 <shachaf> I guess that's the point of this paper.
00:43:45 <shachaf> The thing I said is too general, of course. For example the empty clause is implied by any UNSAT instance.
00:44:17 <shachaf> And also by "other clauses" I meant "all clauses".
00:44:19 <int-e> "Unfortunately, it is not easy to make clause vivification effective because of its high cost."
00:44:36 <shachaf> But if you restrict it to unit propagation -- which still seems hard? -- don't you lose a lot of the benefits?
00:45:41 <int-e> Well, as they also point out in that paper, identifying redundant literals is still NP-hard.
00:46:10 <shachaf> Right, for example for the reason I said, I imagine.
00:46:51 <int-e> While the approximation is polynomial (and mostly linear), and furthermore based on something SAT solvers already do very efficiently.
00:47:18 <int-e> Well, the DPLL/CDCL ones anyway.
00:48:12 <shachaf> Don't you still need to pick which literal to check? I guess that's bounded by your instance size.
00:48:15 <int-e> (Somehow the "DPLL" acronym has disappeared. Or maybe that's just an Armin Biere thing?)
00:48:39 <int-e> shachaf: It's also bounded by the clause size.
00:48:55 <shachaf> I mean, if you check all your clauses.
00:50:10 <shachaf> I can probably excuse people for it being ancient history when no one knew how to do algorithms yet, but it seems a little odd that DPLL is even a named algorithm.
00:50:38 <shachaf> I guess people also don't do pure literal elimination, so really no one does DPLL.
00:50:38 <int-e> And they actually restrict it further (relying on ordering the clause's literals) so that only one trail (alternating between asserting a negated literal and unit propagation) is created, rather than a (at least partially) new trail for each literal.
00:51:25 <shachaf> I should read this in more detail probably.
00:51:38 <shachaf> Also I should get back to SAT solvers! I had a great time working on my CDCL solver.
00:52:00 <shachaf> I still need to add a better variable ordering heuristic. I think that's the biggest impact thing I can do.
00:52:24 <shachaf> Some people do VSIDS but I hear rumors about move-to-front being good.
00:52:32 <shachaf> Or also more complicated things.
00:52:48 <int-e> Hmm. I don't know whether people do this as an in-processing technique, but one thing you can do to eliminate a variable is to resolve each pair (x v C, -x v D) in the clause set. The pure literal rule is a special case of that.
00:53:23 <shachaf> That's the original DP algorithm, right?
00:54:02 <shachaf> This thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis%E2%80%93Putnam_algorithm
00:54:19 <shachaf> Hmm, I guess it has a bunch of other steps.
00:54:29 <shachaf> «Today, the term "Davis–Putnam algorithm" is often used synonymously with the resolution-based propositional decision procedure (Davis–Putnam procedure) that is actually only one of the steps of the original algorithm.»
00:55:50 <int-e> Yeah, it's the DP procedure there.
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00:56:26 <shachaf> I falsely remembered it as the only thing that algorithm did.
00:56:32 <shachaf> Now it seems a lot more reasonable.
00:57:20 <shachaf> I didn't think of pure literal elimination as a special case of that, that's funny.
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00:58:06 <int-e> Oh it's not quite correct.
00:58:47 <int-e> Nah, it's correct after all.
00:59:05 <int-e> I'm just confusing myself with second thoughts.
00:59:12 <shachaf> Right, you resolve and then remove all the clauses containing the original literal.
00:59:17 <shachaf> So if there are no negations you just remove all of them.
00:59:23 <shachaf> I also confused myself for a bit about it.
01:00:48 <shachaf> I have something like a topological sort of a partial order, but with the property that there are a bunch of extra constraints of the form "if a < b, then c < d, e < f, etc."
01:01:07 <shachaf> Is there a nice representation of this sort of thing? It seems like it'd get very busy visually, drawing all the hypothetical edges.
01:01:42 <int-e> so... putting b before a may be advantageous?
01:02:20 <shachaf> It's not really that I want to find an "optimal" order.
01:02:25 <shachaf> I just want to explore all the possible orders.
01:03:06 <shachaf> Specifically this is about CPU memory ordering. The nodes in this graph are things like "store x is visible at thread t".
01:03:25 <shachaf> A directed graph isn't flexible enough for the kinds of constraints you'd want to express.
01:03:48 <shachaf> I *think* maybe constraints of the form I gave might be enough.
01:04:26 <int-e> fancy. you have a digraph on the edges of a digraph
01:05:12 <int-e> (if you split "if a < b, then c < d, e < f, etc." into "if a < b, then c < d", "if a < b, then e < f", etc.
01:05:43 <shachaf> I see, where the 2-cell structure here is "this edge exists implies that this edge exists".
01:06:55 <shachaf> That's an interesting way to look at it.
01:09:24 <int-e> b_jonas: anyway, regarding needing a SAT solver... I got 120 edges basically on pen&paper.
01:09:41 <int-e> b_jonas: but I'm trying to narrow the gap between the lower and upper bounds that I have.
01:10:30 <int-e> b_jonas: partly because the problem *originally* asked for an optimal solution.
01:10:45 <zzo38> I do not have any of the TAOCP although I have borrowed the first few temporarily from the inter library loan. I think I might be interested to read, though.
01:11:23 <shachaf> It's kind of weird to think of it the way you said because the 1-cell edges might not actually exist, right?
01:11:29 <shachaf> Or am I missing a nice way to make that work?
01:16:13 <int-e> I guess you kind of need two forms, T ==> a < b (or just a < b) for unconditional orderings, and then the interesting a < b ==> c < d.
01:17:00 <int-e> (you can play tricks like a < b ==> P and b < a ==> P exploiting that you're looking for total orders, but that doesn't seem helpful)
01:17:26 <int-e> I'm trying to convince myself that this is NP-hard.
01:23:01 <int-e> Ah. Yes, it is. You can use a < b for a literal (and b < a for its negation), and then, to encode A | B | C, pick fresh auxiliary variables u,v,w, and encode !A => u < v, !B => v < w, !C => w < u, thereby reducing from 3-SAT.
01:24:30 <int-e> (transitivity is a bunch of 3-clauses)
01:26:21 <int-e> b_jonas: Oh well I submitted https://savannah.gnu.org/support/index.php?110743
01:29:29 <shachaf> What's the thing that's NP-hard? Finding out whether a topological order exists at all?
01:30:06 <shachaf> Hmm, I guess my statement is too general, because they certainly always exist in my case.
01:34:18 <int-e> It probably doesn't matter for enumeration (unless the set of valid orderings gets very sparse relative to the n! possible ones)
01:37:08 <int-e> NP-hard: Enumeration is, since it has to solve the existence problem to produce the first candidate.
01:38:13 <shachaf> Certainly enumeration is NP-hard if existence is.
01:38:22 <int-e> shachaf: in your application, do you ever have both a < b and b < a?
01:39:23 <int-e> (from the description I'd rather suspect that all pairs a < b are picked from a preexisting partial order)
01:40:51 <int-e> (but I'm not sure)
01:41:21 <int-e> however... I'll try to catch some sleep
01:44:12 <shachaf> Very often the constraints are of the form: "if a_0 < b_0, then a_1 < b_1, a_2 < b_2" and "if b_0 < a_0, then b_1 < a_1, b_2 < a_2"
01:45:02 <shachaf> Actually the constraint here is that there's a global order on {a, b, c} such that each cluster {a_i, b_i, c_i} is in the same order.
01:45:09 <shachaf> (This isn't the only kind of constraint but it's an important one.)
01:46:36 <int-e> Though "if a < b then c < d" and "if d < c then b < a" are equivalent.
01:47:30 <shachaf> So one thing I was imagining was a GUI for exploring simple graphs, where you click on one node at a time to create a particular total order.
01:47:57 <shachaf> But something for enumerating all possible orders would also be useful.
02:12:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: you can buy them as e-books now
02:13:24 <b_jonas> int-e: a bug report for bash. I see.
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03:13:31 <zzo38> I would prefer a printed copy, though
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03:42:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: you can order those too
03:43:36 <b_jonas> they're somewhat more expensive though
03:47:42 <zzo38> How much expensive?
03:58:06 <b_jonas> zzo38: https://www.informit.com/promotions/art-of-computer-programming-books-and-ebooks-140521
03:59:11 <b_jonas> hard to tell because the shipping costs aren't obvious if you're outside the US
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05:00:38 <zzo38> I am in Canada, which is near United States.
05:02:49 <zzo38> Scryfall bulk files has a Oracle bulk file, which seems good to me, but last time, I had problems with it. For example, I should not want any cards that do not have Oracle text (somehow, there are some, even though there should not be), and do not want anything about versions of cards but only the Oracle and legality, that is in common of all versions.
05:03:13 <zzo38> Now that there is lights too, I should think that the lights should be given as an array of array of numbers, but it does not do that.
05:06:17 <zzo38> Is there a better one available?
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10:08:49 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103997&oldid=99916 * HungKhanh0106 * (+76) /* Implementation */
10:09:14 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103998&oldid=103997 * HungKhanh0106 * (+4) /* Implementation */
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19:06:56 <zzo38> How does name stickers working in Magic: the Gathering if applied to an object that has no name or that has multiple names?
19:54:27 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103999&oldid=103996 * Rdococ * (+50) /* Sets */
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23:38:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lien889 * New user account
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01:22:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AriesNinja * New user account
01:24:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104001&oldid=103957 * AriesNinja * (+261)
01:33:32 <esolangs> [[User:AriesNinja]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104002 * AriesNinja * (+200) Created page with "==AriesNinja== ===About=== AriesNinja is a user from the United States who takes interest in creating esolangs and also works to create hashing algorithms that could be used..."
01:38:13 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104003 * AriesNinja * (+366) Created page with "===CRIPL=== CRIPL (or cripl) is a semi-esoteric programming language created by Aries Powvalla. It has the capability to iterate through mathematical operations faster than mo..."
01:41:01 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104004&oldid=104003 * AriesNinja * (-12)
01:56:11 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104005&oldid=104004 * AriesNinja * (-6)
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12:16:59 <esolangs> [[Image]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104006&oldid=95637 * Rdococ * (+809) Make sane 2: Electric Boogaloo
12:18:16 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104007&oldid=103989 * Rdococ * (+47) /* Refurbished languages */
12:19:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:Image]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104008&oldid=88292 * Rdococ * (+207) /* Image is TC */ Clarify computational class
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16:37:06 <esolangs> [[Table]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104009&oldid=86347 * Rdococ * (+207) Work-in-progress refurbishment
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20:19:13 <HackEso> . \ . !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
20:19:32 <laerling> Sorry if I screwed up someone's terminal
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20:21:22 <fizzie> Now that I've fixed the lack of fungot.
20:21:23 <fungot> fizzie: i wouldn't be writting on lisp ( i assume that you're freakin' insane.
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21:47:43 <esolangs> [[Linguistic Calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104010&oldid=41059 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+106) Link, categories
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23:23:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104011&oldid=103968 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* C */ add
23:25:19 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104012&oldid=104005 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+84) Stub, WIP, categories
00:00:28 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104013&oldid=104012 * AriesNinja * (+29)
00:01:47 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104014&oldid=104013 * AriesNinja * (-461) Blanked the page
00:02:05 <esolangs> [[Cripl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104015&oldid=104014 * AriesNinja * (+461)
00:05:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * AriesNinja * moved [[Cripl]] to [[Esolang:ANGL]]: Name Change
00:06:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104018&oldid=104016 * AriesNinja * (+27) Name Change
00:07:35 <esolangs> [[Esolang:ANGL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104019&oldid=104018 * AriesNinja * (+0)
00:07:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * AriesNinja * moved [[Esolang:ANGL]] to [[ANGL]]
00:23:02 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104022&oldid=104011 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) Update name, add
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02:55:16 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104023&oldid=104020 * AriesNinja * (+535)
02:56:50 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104024&oldid=104023 * AriesNinja * (-39)
02:57:12 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104025&oldid=104024 * AriesNinja * (-9)
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02:59:30 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104026&oldid=104025 * AriesNinja * (+5895)
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03:01:33 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104027&oldid=104026 * AriesNinja * (-2)
03:02:50 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104028&oldid=104027 * AriesNinja * (+36)
03:05:12 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104029&oldid=104028 * AriesNinja * (+35)
03:07:03 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104030&oldid=104029 * AriesNinja * (-15)
03:07:54 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104031&oldid=104030 * AriesNinja * (-4)
03:12:05 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104032&oldid=104031 * AriesNinja * (-2) /* Program Init */
03:16:33 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104033&oldid=104032 * AriesNinja * (+403)
03:16:51 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104034&oldid=104033 * AriesNinja * (+1)
03:17:11 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104035&oldid=104034 * AriesNinja * (+1)
03:20:39 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104036&oldid=104035 * AriesNinja * (+4) /* ANGL Laws */
03:21:22 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104037&oldid=104036 * AriesNinja * (+2) /* Practicality, Pros/Cons */
03:22:03 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104038&oldid=104037 * AriesNinja * (+2)
03:23:42 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104039&oldid=104038 * AriesNinja * (+27)
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06:29:37 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104040&oldid=104039 * AriesNinja * (+6) Updated info with engine changes
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06:38:39 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104041&oldid=104040 * AriesNinja * (+291) Updated info with engine changes
06:39:55 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104042&oldid=104041 * AriesNinja * (+17)
06:42:28 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104043&oldid=104042 * AriesNinja * (+42)
06:44:00 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104044&oldid=104043 * AriesNinja * (+2)
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06:48:04 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104045&oldid=104044 * AriesNinja * (+223)
06:50:07 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104046&oldid=104045 * AriesNinja * (+5)
06:50:37 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104047&oldid=104046 * AriesNinja * (+8)
07:00:47 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104048&oldid=104047 * AriesNinja * (+38)
07:01:59 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104049&oldid=104048 * AriesNinja * (+41)
07:03:58 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104050&oldid=104049 * AriesNinja * (+60)
07:05:11 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104051&oldid=104050 * AriesNinja * (+4)
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09:25:49 <esolangs> [[Gtltem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104052&oldid=103240 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1) Amended an orthographic mistake in the documentation string of the implementation.
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11:41:08 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104053&oldid=104051 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
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12:30:28 <esolangs> [[On/Off]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104054&oldid=88808 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+40) Category
12:30:43 <esolangs> [[On/Off]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104055&oldid=104054 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-10) .
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14:03:12 <esolangs> [[ANGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104056&oldid=104053 * AriesNinja * (+38)
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16:55:13 <esolangs> [[Tetra]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104057 * Hakerh400 * (+2865) +[[Tetra]]
16:55:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104058&oldid=104022 * Hakerh400 * (+12) +[[Tetra]]
16:56:07 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104059&oldid=103960 * Hakerh400 * (+12) +[[Tetra]]
16:57:52 <esolangs> [[User:AriesNinja]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104060&oldid=104002 * AriesNinja * (+680)
17:04:12 <esolangs> [[Tetra]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104061&oldid=104057 * Hakerh400 * (-5)
17:11:40 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104062&oldid=104000 * Rdococ * (+14)
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18:06:47 <esolangs> [[Tetra]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104063&oldid=104061 * Hakerh400 * (+0) /* Example */
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18:19:58 <esolangs> [[TwoStep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104064&oldid=14413 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+83) Rectified the input and output command descriptions which seem to operate on ASCII characters, as conjectured by the examples.
18:21:31 <esolangs> [[TwoStep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104065&oldid=104064 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+11) Rectified two errors in the Hello, World! example, the first being an omission of the letter W, the second constituting a missing character following the desinent command ..
18:22:42 <esolangs> [[TwoStep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104066&oldid=104065 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+166) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the TwoStep programming language on GitHub.
18:23:13 <esolangs> [[TwoStep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104067&oldid=104066 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+67) Added categories to the page.
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18:45:19 <esolangs> [[User:AriesNinja]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104068&oldid=104060 * AriesNinja * (+633)
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20:15:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * F * New user account
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20:19:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104069&oldid=104001 * F * (+103) /* Introductions */
20:19:26 <esolangs> [[User:F]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104070 * F * (+7) Created page with "I am F."
20:26:40 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104071&oldid=102142 * F * (+706) /* Implementations */
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21:44:47 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104072&oldid=103923 * Earthrulerr * (+32) /* Input */
21:47:56 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104073&oldid=103918 * Earthrulerr * (-161) /* Links/Other: */
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00:11:03 <esolangs> [[SANTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104074&oldid=104072 * Earthrulerr * (+1) /* Input */
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09:08:48 <laerling> Are there any protections on HackEso etc. against fork bombs and programs invoking themselves indefinitely?
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11:33:15 <esolangs> [[Talk: Encrypted ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104075 * SansCipher * (+204) Created page with "== Language is impossible to implement == See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Generals%27_Problem Two Generals' Problem]. There is no way for servers to reliably agree that..."
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14:18:34 <esolangs> [[Talk: Encrypted ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104076&oldid=104075 * Hakerh400 * (+457) Comment
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17:32:24 <esolangs> [[HashWalk]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104077 * Hakerh400 * (+2548) +[[HashWalk]]
17:33:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104078&oldid=104058 * Hakerh400 * (+15) +[[HashWalk]]
17:33:15 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104079&oldid=104059 * Hakerh400 * (+15) +[[HashWalk]]
17:35:30 <esolangs> [[HashWalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104080&oldid=104077 * Hakerh400 * (+2) /* Computational class */
17:39:57 <esolangs> [[HashWalk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104081&oldid=104080 * Hakerh400 * (-1) /* Overview */
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18:51:49 <esolangs> [[Motorway]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104082&oldid=103581 * Ninesquared81 * (+17) /* Language */
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20:17:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Roselandgoose * New user account
20:25:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104083&oldid=104069 * Roselandgoose * (+244)
20:25:44 <esolangs> [[User:Roselandgoose]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104084 * Roselandgoose * (+8) Created page with "Hi! Bye."
20:27:19 <esolangs> [[Grocery List]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104085&oldid=95066 * Roselandgoose * (+166) /* Implementation */ Add hare interpreter
20:28:44 <esolangs> [[Grocery List]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104086&oldid=104085 * Roselandgoose * (-19) /* Implementation */
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01:57:45 <esolangs> [[CompressedBF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104087 * Joe * (+39138) Created page with "A compressed version of [brainfuck] more suitable for golfing created by [User:Joe]. ==Compression Algorithm== It uses run-length encoding plus a dictionary. ==Syntax== ===..."
01:58:43 <esolangs> [[CompressedBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104088&oldid=104087 * Joe * (+2)
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13:59:42 <esolangs> [[User:BowlingPizzaBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104091&oldid=95677 * BowlingPizzaBall * (-197)
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14:10:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bb010g * New user account
14:12:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104092&oldid=104083 * Bb010g * (+199) /* Introductions */
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14:14:04 <esolangs> [[BANCStar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104093&oldid=62044 * Bb010g * (+16) Repair linkrot
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14:54:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uyjhmn n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104094&oldid=95961 * Mario0Fan * (+42)
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18:07:41 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104095 * McChuck * (+5132) Created page with "=== Trichotomy === == Trichotomy: The link between [[Subleq+]] and [[OISC:3]] == Trichotomy is hack of [[Subleq]], the one instruction language [[OISC]]. It is named for the..."
18:09:06 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104096&oldid=104095 * McChuck * (-19) /* Trichotomy */
18:10:38 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104097&oldid=104096 * McChuck * (+21) /* Format */
18:11:06 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104098&oldid=104097 * McChuck * (+18) /* Example program */
18:13:04 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104099&oldid=104098 * McChuck * (+126) /* Example program */
18:15:06 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104100&oldid=104099 * McChuck * (+59)
18:17:09 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104101&oldid=104100 * McChuck * (+160) /* See also */
18:17:20 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104102&oldid=104101 * McChuck * (+3) /* See also */
18:18:05 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104103&oldid=104102 * McChuck * (+5) /* See also */
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18:26:55 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104104&oldid=103787 * Mario0Fan * (+39)
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18:32:21 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104105&oldid=104103 * McChuck * (-1) /* Format */
18:34:32 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104106 * Mario0Fan * (+224) Created page with "'''A''' '''B'''ad '''P'''rogramming '''L'''language '''W'''ith '''N'''o '''L'''oops '''but a stack''' is a programming language made by ~~~~"
18:34:47 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104107&oldid=104106 * Mario0Fan * (-72)
18:34:55 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104108&oldid=104107 * Mario0Fan * (-1)
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18:37:24 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104110&oldid=104109 * Mario0Fan * (+67)
18:37:57 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104111&oldid=104110 * Mario0Fan * (+15)
18:38:24 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104112&oldid=104104 * Mario0Fan * (+18)
18:38:33 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104113&oldid=104111 * Mario0Fan * (+528)
18:41:16 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104114&oldid=104113 * Mario0Fan * (+230)
18:42:51 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104115&oldid=104114 * Mario0Fan * (+100)
18:44:48 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104116&oldid=104115 * Mario0Fan * (+7)
18:49:16 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104117&oldid=104116 * Mario0Fan * (+62)
18:49:49 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104118&oldid=104117 * Mario0Fan * (-2) /* definitely-not-a-truth-machine:) */
18:52:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104119&oldid=15677 * McChuck * (+72) /* Computational Class */
18:52:56 <esolangs> [[Talk:Subleq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104120&oldid=104119 * McChuck * (+80) /* Computational Class */
18:53:23 <esolangs> [[Talk:Subleq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104121&oldid=104120 * McChuck * (-1) /* Computational Class */
18:53:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104122&oldid=104121 * McChuck * (-3) /* Computational Class */
18:54:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:Subleq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104123&oldid=104122 * McChuck * (+1) /* Computational Class */
19:01:27 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104124&oldid=104118 * Mario0Fan * (+830) /* definitely-not-a-truth-machine:) */
19:01:48 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104125&oldid=104124 * Mario0Fan * (+37) /* Examples */
19:04:24 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104126&oldid=104125 * Mario0Fan * (+116)
19:04:26 <esolangs> [[Oxon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104127&oldid=103450 * A casual user * (+359)
19:05:00 <esolangs> [[Oxon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104128&oldid=104127 * A casual user * (-35)
19:05:14 <esolangs> [[Oxon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104129&oldid=104128 * A casual user * (+1)
19:06:55 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104130&oldid=104126 * Mario0Fan * (+21)
19:09:44 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104131&oldid=104130 * Mario0Fan * (+67)
19:10:01 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104132&oldid=104131 * Mario0Fan * (+3)
19:14:20 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104133&oldid=104132 * Mario0Fan * (+207)
19:24:00 <esolangs> [[User:Mario0Fan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104134&oldid=103354 * Mario0Fan * (+30)
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23:21:04 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104135&oldid=104133 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+126) /* Implementations */ Categories
00:58:49 <esolangs> [[Burgeria]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104136&oldid=103956 * Dtp09 * (+98) /* Conditionals */
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02:44:20 <esolangs> [[10Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104137&oldid=68495 * Esolang1 * (+159) Fixed python program
02:53:02 <esolangs> [[10Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104138&oldid=104137 * Esolang1 * (+2)
03:18:34 <esolangs> [[13 bytes :D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104139 * Esolang1 * (+870) Created new page: 13 bytes :D
03:19:29 <esolangs> [[13 bytes :D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104140&oldid=104139 * Esolang1 * (+0) Fixed typos: Creator and Name
03:19:53 <esolangs> [[13 bytes :D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104141&oldid=104140 * Esolang1 * (+0) Fixed typos: Creator and Name
03:20:30 <esolangs> [[User:Esolang1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104142&oldid=101671 * Esolang1 * (+10) Added language: 13 bytes :D
03:26:38 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104143&oldid=103898 * Esolang1 * (+46) Added language: 13 bytes :D
03:50:17 <esolangs> [[HQ9+: Functional Edition]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104144&oldid=103901 * BoundedBeans * (+76)
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07:55:56 <esolangs> [[Welcome to Esolang, the esoteric programming languages wiki!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104145&oldid=103049 * Username1234 * (+5) /* Hello World */
07:56:35 <esolangs> [[Welcome to Esolang, the esoteric programming languages wiki!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104146&oldid=104145 * Username1234 * (-22) /* Operations */
07:56:44 <esolangs> [[Welcome to Esolang, the esoteric programming languages wiki!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104147&oldid=104146 * Username1234 * (-5) /* Hello World */
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09:50:10 <esolangs> [[Random Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104148&oldid=43005 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3045) Added an implementation in Common Lisp.
09:50:31 <esolangs> [[Random Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104149&oldid=104148 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+54) Added categories to the page.
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11:27:16 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL but with stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104150&oldid=104135 * Mario0Fan * (+0)
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16:17:57 <b_jonas> hmm, if Unicode has only 17 planes (because that's how much UTF-16-M can encode), while D&D has 17 alignment planes plus lots of other planes, then why are two unicode planes named of the astral plane and the base material plane, which aren't among the 17 alignment planes? do some of the alignment planes not get used as names for unicode planes?
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16:23:16 <Luci-ghoule> ..I never thought about it, but is the Unicode plane _actually_ named after the D&D plane?
16:23:58 <Luci-ghoule> I wouldn't entirely rule it out given how the unicode consortium seems to be a bunch of nerds :p
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16:29:03 <b_jonas> though maybe that doesn't work because all of unicode is lawful, except for the private use areas which are chaotic
16:30:10 <b_jonas> Luci-ghoule: not actually. plane 0 of unicode is actually called "base multilingual plane" rather than "base material plane", and I think the D&D plane is called "prime material plane"; and "astral plane" for unicode is just a nickname
16:30:22 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_(Unicode) gives the actual official plane names
16:31:18 <Luci-ghoule> curious about the etymology for the nickname though
16:32:59 <b_jonas> and apparently "astral" isn't even any one plane, it's the nickname for all the planes other than base material plane.
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18:12:02 <esolangs> [[User:SirBrahms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104151&oldid=100306 * SirBrahms * (+45)
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19:09:22 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104152 * Hakerh400 * (+2239) +[[]]
19:09:47 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104153&oldid=104078 * Hakerh400 * (+21) +[[]]
19:09:59 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104154&oldid=104079 * Hakerh400 * (+21) +[[]]
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19:19:03 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104155&oldid=104152 * Hakerh400 * (-19)
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21:02:50 <int-e> b_jonas: the bash thing got fixed (to delay closing those FDs until after the loop) according to https://savannah.gnu.org/support/?110743 :)
21:35:17 <esolangs> [[13 bytes :D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104156&oldid=104141 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) /* Examples */ Category
21:58:17 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104157&oldid=97065 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-135) Rectified the Hello World! example, which would enter in an infinitely repeating loop, and added an infinite cat program.
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22:37:15 <b_jonas> the heck? computer froze on me again
22:37:45 <int-e> I didn't do anything
22:38:04 <int-e> maybe time to let memtest run overnight?
22:38:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Were you the one who liked MMIX's MXOR instruction? Did I mention that Intel added that to x86?
22:39:10 <int-e> what's that, the carry-less multiplication?
22:39:13 <b_jonas> shachaf: ooh, what's its name?
22:39:39 <b_jonas> int-e: multiplying 8x8 GF(2) matrixes with the coefficients packed into a 64-bit integer
22:40:36 <int-e> shachaf: do we get MOR too?
22:40:56 <int-e> (I guess that's less interesting for most people)
22:41:19 <b_jonas> what? no, MOR seems to be more general
22:41:21 <shachaf> b_jonas: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/gf2p8affineqb
22:41:42 <shachaf> And even this one is only in GFNI which I think is still pretty rare.
22:42:04 <int-e> (MOR is a relation product; MXOR is a matrix product over GF(2) which I /know/ has applications in cryptography at least)
22:42:16 <shachaf> Hmm, this is only matrix-vector multiplication, did MXOR do matrix-matrix?
22:42:39 <shachaf> I guess it has SIMD matrix-vector multiplication so you can probably emulate it.
22:42:42 <int-e> yes. http://mmix.cs.hm.edu/doc/instructions-en.html
22:42:54 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, I was the one who liked MMIX's MOR and MXOR instructions (I think MOR is usually more useful in my opinion, but MXOR is also useful). I did not konw that Intel added it to x86. As far as I know it was not added to RISC-V, although I added a message that they should add it but I think they have not done that yet.
22:43:01 <shachaf> Right, OK, I forgot what MXOR actually was.
22:43:18 <zzo38> (but for some uses, MOR and MXOR are both just as good)
22:45:09 <b_jonas> shachaf: I'm not convinced that that actually computes MXOR, let me try to understand the manual
22:45:14 <zzo38> Well, at least the things I have considered using for, I have found MOR to be more useful, although I have not considered everything, so probably MXOR is just as useful, but for different purposes (although some things can use either one, as I have mentioned)
22:45:20 <int-e> shachaf: intel's thing it should do matrix products, shouldn't it? since it can transform several 8-bit vectors at once... that's one way to look at a matrix product
22:45:30 <int-e> unless I'm misreading
22:45:42 <b_jonas> I thought we figured the last time that it was another of the like four different instructions to compute multiplication in some representation of GF(2^8)
22:45:44 <int-e> I don't think I am.
22:47:00 <zzo38> Will command __builtin_mor and __builtin_mxor be added into GCC, or @llvm.mor and @llvm.mxor into LLVM? If using in GCC should also have some definition that can be checked with #ifdef if the target computer supports such an instruction.
22:47:03 <shachaf> int-e: Right, that's what I meant, I was just being kind of silly wondering whether you need to do any fancy SIMD thing to get it back to the form you want it in.
22:47:20 <shachaf> But actually it's already in the form you want it in.
22:48:08 <shachaf> b_jonas: Wait, am I extremely confused? Is this not MXOR?
22:48:28 <shachaf> (Plus an affine immediate that you can ignore if you want.)
22:48:52 <int-e> and wider matrices... and /maybe/ a transposition?
22:49:05 <shachaf> This one relies on a specific representation of GF(256): https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/gf2p8affineinvqb
22:49:18 <shachaf> But I don't think the non-inv one does.
22:50:10 <int-e> (Transposition... in the bit order that Knuth uses, does the intel thing produce AB or AB^T or maybe even A^TB or A^TB^T)?
22:50:31 <int-e> I'm not quite up to figuring this out right now.
22:50:50 <b_jonas> sorry, I'm still trying to understand the description in the manual
22:51:15 <shachaf> b_jonas: This one might be a clearer description: https://networkbuilders.intel.com/solutionslibrary/galois-field-new-instructions-gfni-technology-guide
22:51:44 <zzo38> MMIX has them, and if this is the case then also x86, and I think I have read some people had considered MOR and MXOR in WebAssembly (although as far as I know, it has not been done yet), and I also tried to convince them to be included in RISC-V as well. If this is the case, then such a command in GCC and LLVM will be useful for multiple target computers.
22:52:40 <zzo38> One use that it is suitable either MOR or MXOR will do, is exchanging endianness (including PDP-endian).
22:52:50 <int-e> So let's try. In Knuth's convention, every row is a byte. In Intel's, the transformation matrix uses bytes for rows, but the argument bytes are columns. So yeah, there's a transposition here.
22:52:59 <int-e> (The result are columns too.)
22:53:36 <int-e> But... close enough.
22:53:37 <b_jonas> the part I'm confused about is that the description says "computes an affine transformation in the Galois Field 2^8", which makes no sense unless they mean like (the Galois Field 2)^8 as a vector space
22:53:48 <shachaf> I think that's what they mean.
22:54:03 <shachaf> There's no GF(2^8) behavior here as far as I can tell.
22:54:11 <b_jonas> but the more formal description does look like it's computing a matrix product in GF(2) indeed
22:54:16 <int-e> (Which, in particular, includes the affine transformations in GF(2^8))
22:54:30 <int-e> x |-> ax + b, with a,b in GF(2^8)
22:54:43 <int-e> but you have to prepare the matrix corresponding to a yourself
22:55:39 <b_jonas> zzo38: if that's what the instruction does then gcc almost certainly has some builtin for it, and the intel intrinsic defined from it in a header. let me look.
22:56:43 <shachaf> Yes, it's _mm_gf2p8affine_epi64_epi8
22:57:08 <shachaf> Or _mm256 or whatever your register size is.
22:57:12 <b_jonas> and the gcc builtin is __builtin_ia32_vgf2p8affineqb_v16qi
22:57:40 <b_jonas> shachaf: there's no other register size version, only xmm
22:58:13 <int-e> but the description has 128 and 256 bit versions, hmm.
22:58:34 <b_jonas> odd because the intel manual only shows an xmm version
22:58:53 <b_jonas> am I looking at too old a manual?
22:59:01 <shachaf> There's even a zmm version if you have AVX512.
22:59:09 <shachaf> I'm not sure whether GFNI is available on any chips without AVX512?
22:59:16 <zzo38> Can such GCC builtins be used on non-x86 computers that might include such a command, though?
22:59:18 <shachaf> But if not it probably will be.
23:00:08 <int-e> shachaf: funny, https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/gf2p8affineqb lists the intrinsic but has no separate operational description for that case.
23:00:32 <b_jonas> it looks as if it's AVX512 encoding only, but still only works on 128 byte registers
23:00:52 <int-e> (or intrinsic*s* since there's also the masking feature)
23:01:03 <shachaf> By the way, the reduction polynomial most of the GFNI instructions use, from AES, doesn't have the property that "x" is a generator, which seems a bit unfortunate.
23:01:44 <shachaf> For example the polynomial used in http://alamos.math.arizona.edu/RTG16/ECC/raid6.pdf has x as a generator, which it uses to compute Q more efficiently, since it only need to multiply by any generator.
23:01:47 <b_jonas> no wait, there is an 512 byte version?
23:01:52 <b_jonas> well I'm confused, but whatever
23:01:54 <shachaf> ANy idea why AES picked that specific polynomial?
23:02:23 <b_jonas> shachaf: maybe it was lexicographically the first polynomial or something
23:06:04 <shachaf> Also, man, using x for elements of a prime power field seems so awkward to me.
23:06:45 <shachaf> When you do a field extension to add i, or sqrt(2), or whatever, you don't talk about elements of the new field being polynomials, you just use some new symbols.
23:06:55 <shachaf> I don't know why people don't do that with finite fields.
23:07:11 <int-e> it's the lexicographically smallest primitive polynomial of degree 8
23:08:16 <b_jonas> int-e: well that's why then. it's a cryptographic standard so it has to make its choices nothing-up-my-sleeve
23:09:08 <int-e> You really want one of the form x^8+p(x) with small degree for p(x) because that's advantageous for the circuit depth of modular reduction. So I think that leaves p(x) = x^4+x^3+x^2+1 or p(x) = x^4+x^3+x+1, and they picked the primitive one rather than the other which is merely irreducible.
23:09:52 <int-e> I don't know whether that has any effect for the application.
23:10:38 <b_jonas> wait, doesn't primitive mean that x is a generator?
23:10:47 <int-e> b_jonas: I don't know what your objection is precisely.
23:11:29 <b_jonas> wait, so are you talking about both the AES instructions and different instructions now
23:11:46 <int-e> I'm talking about the AES galois field
23:12:26 <b_jonas> but earlier shachaf says that AES chose the one where the reduction polynomial is not a generator
23:12:27 <int-e> shachaf: good point, that was no objection
23:12:42 <b_jonas> and IIUC there are like four different intel instructions and some of them use a different polynomial
23:13:06 <int-e> Oh, I'm also too stupid to convert 0x1b to binary.
23:13:36 <int-e> That corresponds to x^4+x^3+x+1, so the non-primitive one indeed.
23:15:20 <b_jonas> and besides the two different representation that those use, there's also logarithmic representation used in https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=862789 (admittedly that's GF(2^7) but the same idea would work for GF(2^8)), and the Sprague-Grundy representation used in David Madore's secret sharing program
23:16:12 <b_jonas> (ok, Sprague-Grundy representation is probably not the best name for it)
23:17:00 <b_jonas> (nim representation might be better probably)
23:17:22 <b_jonas> (though I think there was a specific proper noun associated with nim multiplication too, but I can't find what that is)
23:18:13 <shachaf> OK, so 0x1d is the primitive one that has the property that x is a generator.
23:18:24 <shachaf> And it's almost but not quite lexicographically smallest.
23:20:20 <shachaf> By the way, I like the characterization of a field as a commutative ring where identifying any two elements collapses the whole thing down to one element.
23:20:37 <shachaf> It's just a rephrasing of a more usual thing people say about having two ideals.
23:21:00 <shachaf> But quotienting by an equivalence seems more natural to me for some reason.
23:21:40 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104158&oldid=104157 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+201) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the DetailedFuck programming language on GitHub as a replacement of the previously removed converter function and added the category tag Implemented.
23:24:27 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104159&oldid=104158 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+134) Introduced an Instructions section for the command substitutions table, preceded by a short preamble.
23:25:12 <int-e> So it's simply the lexicographically smallest irreducible polynomial of degree 8, no additional constraints. Makes sense?
23:29:15 <shachaf> By the way, I should figure out how Berlekamp-Massey or some similar algorithm works.
23:29:33 <shachaf> For finding multiple errors.
23:30:52 <int-e> Oh, the determinant of the mixcolumn matrix is 1 (mod 2) regardless of the choice of irreducible polynomial. Fun.
23:34:54 <int-e> (which explains how the inverse matrix entries are all of degree 3 or less)
23:36:35 <esolangs> [[Basic Programming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104160&oldid=103838 * Oshaboy * (-4) those are tokens, not commands
23:37:18 <int-e> "for finding multiple errors"... in an error correction code context?
23:37:56 <shachaf> Say if you split data into n data shards and add 4 parity shards, you should be able to correct up to 2 errors.
23:38:23 <shachaf> (The n+2 case where you correct one error is really simple, described in the PDF I linked above.)
23:40:19 <b_jonas> as for the earlier question on whether that intel instruction transposes one of its input operand matrices, I believe the answer is yes, it transposes just like the MMIX instruction, but the intel instruction differs because it also flips one of the matrices in the direction that amounts to bit reversal rather than endianness reversal
23:44:26 <int-e> Oh. You're right, the bytes in the MMIX thing are columns... that, or Y and Z are swapped.
23:45:46 <int-e> But regardless, when comparing the two, one argument is transposed in Intel's version.
23:46:18 <int-e> And, hmm, no, transpose is not a bit reversal.
23:46:40 <int-e> (just look at the diagonal antries that are fixed)
23:50:23 <b_jonas> int-e: transpose isn't a bit reversal, flip is a bit reversal
23:50:41 <int-e> I don't think that there's a flip involved
23:50:49 <int-e> but as usual I may have missed it
23:52:29 <b_jonas> it's not a bit reversal, it's a byte reversal of one input
23:53:21 <int-e> oh this thing... tsrc2qw.byte[7-i]... yeah I did miss that.
23:55:26 <int-e> Hmm I wonder why they're doing that.
23:56:39 <b_jonas> int-e: probably depends on which way you represent the bits of a polynomial
23:58:04 <b_jonas> maybe this helps with AES or something
23:58:13 <b_jonas> or some other crypto protocol
00:07:57 <b_jonas> different topic, I'm going to do a zzo38 here. imagine the following fictional shapez.io-like video game. the playfield is a 3D cube grid, infinite to the north-south and east-west but 16 cubies tall with a ground plane under. in Factorio and shapez.io and Mindustry you build belt sections in a cubie, but here you instead build belt sections on a face of a cubie. so a section can go south from a cubie,
00:08:03 <b_jonas> from south into a cubie, to west from a cubie, from west into a cubie, to below from a cubie, or from below up to a cubie. these are directional one-way despite being shown as transparent pipes. a long straigh pipe made of many sections transports items to long distance as you'd expect. interesting things happen when a cubie has some other configuration of pipes than just one pipe in and another out the
00:11:31 <b_jonas> if a cubie has just one input, it blocks the items like you'd expect, and if just one input then it usually produces no items, but if the pipe is from a resource field tile on the ground plane then it periodically mines items. if a cubie has two or more input pipes and an output pipe opposite of one of the inputs then it's a priority merge, with the item going straight having priority and items from the
00:11:37 <b_jonas> other paths balanced if there's enough of them. two or more outputs and one input makes a priority splitter, with the other outputs having higher priority than the straight output. if you want an equal merge or split then you just leave the straight input or output resp unused.
00:12:05 <int-e> My idea regarding the byte order thing is a weak suspicion that maybe they wanted to write 64 bit constants with bit 0 first, then bit 1, etc. so UINT64_C(0x0102040810204080) would be the identity.
00:12:35 <int-e> I don't see any actual benefit here... and I rather suspect that in most cases this value will be constant anyway.
00:15:29 <b_jonas> if there are two inputs from opposite direction and one output, that's not a merge, it's a factory building that waits for inputs from both sides then acts as a stacker or mixer or painter; similarly two outputs opposite each other and one input make for a shape cutter. one input and one output not opposite each other it's a rotator. if you want to go another direction without rotation then you can do a
00:15:35 <b_jonas> priority merge with one input unused, or multiple consecutive rotations cancelling out each other (works in 3D but not in 2D)
00:16:03 <b_jonas> no wait, the latter doesn't work
00:16:07 <int-e> I don't understand "let you build sections in a cubie"
00:16:38 <b_jonas> int-e: those games are 2D so it lets you build sections in a belt
00:16:47 <int-e> but it sounds to me like you're just bumping all dimensions by one... so rather than lines as interfaces between squares you now have faces as interfaces between cubes
00:16:52 <b_jonas> those games are 2D so they let you build belt sections in a square tile
00:17:22 <b_jonas> int-e: no, the part about merges and splits still works in 2D actually, as long as you also add belt crossings when you use 2 inputs and 2 outputs
00:17:35 <b_jonas> with each input opposite an output
00:17:48 <int-e> unless you intend pipes/belts to be squeezed between cubes.
00:18:12 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, they're between the cubies, one cubie long going from the center of one cubie to the center of another cubie
00:18:40 <b_jonas> and each section is straight, it doesn't get curved based on what neighbors it has
00:20:35 <int-e> oh you /only/ have pipes, and they're supposed to determine the block's function?
00:21:10 <int-e> so basically... every face becomes a tristate thing: no pipe, pipe one way, pipe the other way, and that's all the information there is
00:21:11 <b_jonas> each face has either a one-way pipe in one direction, a one-way pipe in the other direction, or nothing (so far as I explained)
00:21:28 <b_jonas> exactly (later I'll add two more states totaling to five)
00:22:13 <int-e> and I guess one could recover user-friendliness by actually decoding this for UI purposes, and offering prebuilt cubes too.
00:22:46 <b_jonas> int-e: for 2D this would be user-friendly, for 3D it's very hard to implement in a way that you can see what you're building, which is why this is a hypothetical game
00:22:52 <int-e> did you ever play the infinifactory thing?
00:22:57 <b_jonas> I haven't explained about the items (shapes and pigments) yet
00:24:58 <int-e> (Asking because that one *is* 3D, though closer to the building/pipes story. The other twist is that you build 3D objects that often take up multiple cubes of space.)
00:24:59 <b_jonas> the items are pigments that work exactly as in shapez.io: you mine red, green or blue and mix them and paint octants; and shapes, which are made of eight octants that can be missing or one of four shapes with one of eight colors and, here's the twist form shapez.io, an orientation. the four minable shapes are cubes, spheres, cylinders, and hexagonal prisms, whose octants have progressively less
00:25:06 <b_jonas> symmetry, so a cube octant only has one orientation, a sphere octant 8, a cylinder octant 12, and a hexagon octant 24.
00:25:55 <b_jonas> (you could add a fifth shape whose octants differ in chiralty, but I think that's too evil)
00:26:23 <b_jonas> so one of the earliest goal shapes is made of two halfspheres with their round parts touching
00:26:41 <int-e> so octants can change position?
00:27:37 <int-e> sounds messy already tbh
00:27:38 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, if you stack two shapes then each has to fit half of the bounding box, cut in the direction opposite the two input pipes, and the stacker moves them so each is in the half-box on the side of the input
00:27:56 <b_jonas> a cutter outputs shapes suitable for stacking in that orientation
00:28:07 <int-e> especially when you start painting
00:29:31 <int-e> (even if you paint the whole surface... take a half cube, stack a half sphere, paint, remove the half sphere... you now have a half cube with a circular unpainted area. cut, rotate...)
00:29:32 <b_jonas> I didn't define what some other pipe configurations do, like the ones with two inputs and one output in three pairwise perpendicular directions, or two outputs and one input pairwise perpendicular, etc
00:29:55 <b_jonas> I'm not really decided about what those configurations should do yet, but the rest of the configurations are enough to do everything
00:30:43 <b_jonas> int-e: no, the paint goes deep, each octant is wholly the sme color. imagine the shapes made of sponge if you wish, or the paint flowing into the gaps between the octant
00:31:38 <int-e> I guess that's less messy... as far as game logic goes
00:31:47 <int-e> (the floor will be dripping with paint now though)
00:32:31 <b_jonas> no, the sponge absorbs the whole drop of paint no matter if the shape is just one eight-sphere or a full mined cube
00:33:09 <int-e> my experience with sponges has been different... anyway.
00:33:19 <int-e> just thought it was amusing
00:33:26 <b_jonas> and the paint replaces any other paint already on it, so it can brighten the color from blue to pink or pink to red, just as in shapez.io
00:34:04 <b_jonas> and the mined shapes are black and there's no black pigment so you can't unpaint sponge, just as in shapez.io
00:34:16 <b_jonas> (if you couldn't brighten colors then you wouldn't need mixers)
00:34:56 <b_jonas> it's an abstract video game, it doesn't have to work like real sponges and paint
00:35:27 <int-e> meh you reminded me that I still haven't finished the logic for my 6-factory shapez thing
00:36:40 <b_jonas> also there's a hub, which I imagine is a full height obelisk 4x4 tiles across somewhere near the staring area, and it accepts the requested shapes modulo rotation, mirroring (chirality) or shifting (for shapes that can come out of a cutter)
00:36:52 <b_jonas> but this pat is subject to change
00:38:06 <b_jonas> and you can unbuild pipes because not being able to do that is also evil
00:38:21 <b_jonas> also a pipe going down to the ground plane should probably be a sink (shapez.io trash)
00:38:26 <b_jonas> so you can discard cut pieces
00:40:06 <int-e> One of my favorite things I did in Infinifactory was an upward disposal, raising tower of garbage into the sky...
00:40:27 <b_jonas> I also have an extension for how circuit/signals should work
00:40:50 <int-e> 4D shapez with time travel
00:41:17 <int-e> I guess that's your extra bits you alluded to before
00:41:18 <b_jonas> to answer your question, I haven't played Infinifactory. should I? is it good?
00:43:20 <b_jonas> now besides pipe you can build two more things. the first is wires, which you build directional on a face between two cubies or below a cubie. they transmit boolean signals, fast enough that any length of wire transmits the signal in one tick between two junctions, kind of like shapez.io, but each wire section can only be in two states, 0 or 1, there's no void or conflict or shape or pigment state.
00:43:26 <b_jonas> junctions, which are cubies with multiple wires other than one input and one output perform various logic functions.
00:43:40 <b_jonas> I'm not quite decided on what these functions should be, I thought of multiple variants.
00:43:48 <b_jonas> a face can't have both a wire and a pipe.
00:44:25 <int-e> I had fun when I played it. Can't hurt to check a let's play video first, of course. It's less abstract than shapez.
00:44:54 <b_jonas> a junction with an input pipe, two output pipes one of which is opposite the input, and a wire input, makes for a shapez.io-like gate. there can also be other interactions of gates and wires.
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00:46:32 <int-e> I should also say that I never finished the final part (which I think is post-story) because as happens in several Zachtronics games, the tasks just get too big.
00:46:41 <int-e> (for my taste, ymmv)
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00:48:35 <shachaf> i,i is a ymmv register the VEX encoding version of a ymm register?
00:50:42 <b_jonas> and finally, you can build a shape detector, which you build not on a face but on a huge cube made of 11x11x11 cubies, not overlapping with other shape detectors. a shape detector has 97 special cubie location, the other cubies are normal. each 5x5x5 corner has 12 magic wire output cubies, 6 on the faces and 6 between the face and the center. each corner of 12 outputs information about the shape of one
00:50:48 <b_jonas> octant of a shape item. there's a special shape input cubie in the center which lets the shape detector reads the shape that goes through the pipe in the center, like shapez.io speed meters, or the current freeplay shapes, or the next freeplay shape, depending on its configuration of wires/pipes.
00:50:58 <b_jonas> I haven't figured out how you should read color information yet, this only gives the shape.
00:51:35 <b_jonas> so in the special magic cubes of a shape detector, different rules apply than in other cubies.
00:52:00 <int-e> this... sounds too difficult to play casually
00:52:24 <b_jonas> int-e: is building a MAM in shapez.io too difficult to play casually?
00:53:46 <int-e> but I know how to break it down into reasonably self-contained parts. and it's 2D so navigating the things and debugging them is ultimately not too taxing.
00:53:47 <b_jonas> but I presume you don't need the logic at first, until you want to automate freeplay levels
00:54:14 <int-e> sure, I think the logic is *meant* for people who venture into MAM territory.
00:54:47 <b_jonas> the way I imagine it, the hub always requires a very low amount of each shape, like only 10 of each shape, so you don't need too many copies of things, though there's still a range copy/paste and range delete function so you can copy blocks
00:54:57 <int-e> It's the obvious thing to do with it, since that's basically the only in-game objective.
00:55:54 <b_jonas> and I'm assuming there are no upgrade goal shapes, only level goal shapes, and the pipes have a fixed speed, and most levels don't unlock any reward other than the next level, though some early levels unlock certain mine fields so you can only mine cubes at the start
00:56:08 <b_jonas> the first shape is a full uncolored cube
00:57:00 <b_jonas> but there are also multiple level shapes accepted at a time so you can pick what you do first
00:57:37 <b_jonas> so it's more like an achievement digraph than a sequence of levels
00:58:09 <int-e> oh also note that the fact that shapez.io signals operate on items like pigments and shapes makes the logic design relatively intuitive.
00:59:04 <b_jonas> int-e: you could probably have a signal system like that here too, with two input wires and an output wire making a virtual stacker/painter/mixer, while an input wire and two output wires make a virtual cutter
00:59:14 <b_jonas> that's just not what sprang into my mind for some reason
00:59:45 <b_jonas> you need a bit more than those obviously, I'm not fully specifying the gates
01:02:01 <b_jonas> you may be right that that's a better idea
01:02:18 <b_jonas> I do know that the wire routing and logic gets very annoying and hard to debug with the shape detector that I proposed
01:03:17 <b_jonas> I did make sure that there's enough space to lead wires out of each magic cubie in a detector with some to spare, but still
01:05:23 <int-e> do you have anything like filters?
01:05:32 <b_jonas> you'd probably get hopelessly lost trying to debug your logic unless you're like one of the gods that created 6502
01:06:27 <b_jonas> though you could have boolean shape gates with two inputs and one output, picking one of two choies
01:06:47 <b_jonas> rather than just the boolean shape gates with one pipe input and two output that I mentioned before
01:06:55 <int-e> b_jonas: yeah I'd worry that the only way to manage thay would be ICFP style (write a compiler, router, etc. to do most of the work)
01:07:43 <int-e> I mean the contest, of course, not the conference
01:08:34 <b_jonas> maybe I should ditch all the pigments and color and just consider shapes
01:09:46 <b_jonas> because that's still like (1+8+12+24)^8-1 different shapes
01:10:09 <b_jonas> (one more if you allow the empty shape, whether you want that isn't obvious)
01:10:59 <b_jonas> (1+1+8+12+24)^8-1 different shapes
01:11:43 <b_jonas> less than how many shapes shapez.io has admittedly
01:12:23 <b_jonas> it would be (1+(1+8+12+24)*8)^8 with colors
01:13:17 <b_jonas> oh by the way, there are no concentric layers, the shape is just eight octant with up to one shape-octant in each, not four nested shells of this
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01:13:55 <b_jonas> the stacker only glues shapes, it doesn't put one shape inside another, and if one of the input shapes is too big then it just clogs the stacker
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01:15:06 <int-e> Hmm. I'll say this... if shapez.io didn't have the shape/pigment signals, I'd probably not have bothered with building an MAM
01:15:47 <int-e> But if you do have those, then the huge number of possible shapes becomes far less of an issue
01:16:20 <b_jonas> by the way, if you just want a Factorio/Mindustry-like game with 2D and belts working this way, with priority merges and splits and crossings working how I described (split has side output at high prio, merge has straight output with higher prio) then you'd build filter splitters (as in Factorio filter splitters or Mindustry sorters) on a cubie
01:17:07 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, but the hypothetical shapez 3D that I'm describing has orientation of the octants, which shapez.io doesn't have
01:17:42 <int-e> oh sure, I got that. I guess you're saying that that's a bit like colors
01:18:05 <b_jonas> it adds difficulty at least. I'm not sure how much it's like colors or not.
01:18:08 <int-e> in the sense that it's extra processing that has to be managed
01:18:16 <int-e> on top of just selecting the right shape
01:19:29 <b_jonas> imagine the earliest goal shapes are a full cube (teaches mining and piping), a half cube (teaches cutting), sphere, then two half-spheres touching at their round tip (teaching that stacking cares about the direction of the inputs), then you get into less and less symmetric goal shapes
01:20:32 <int-e> Produce a supply of each? Eh it's really impossible to plan without knowing what the logic layer will look like... or what kind of devices you have for rotating things etc.
01:21:17 <b_jonas> int-e: just deliver 10 of it to the hub
01:21:38 <b_jonas> I did define rotating, or try to
01:22:17 <int-e> So... when playing this, is there a reason to use the 3rd dimension for more than routing and compact standard building blocks?
01:23:08 <b_jonas> if you have a corner in a pipe, with one input pipe and one output pipe to a cubie, then it rotates the shape; while splitters, mergers, joiners, cutters, painters don't change the orientation of the octants (absolute to the playfield)
01:23:18 <int-e> (by "standard building block" I mean higher level blocks you design and copy around)
01:23:31 <b_jonas> there is a reason to use the 3rd dimension, yes:
01:23:53 <b_jonas> joiners, cutters, and rotators care about the orientation of their input pipes,
01:24:06 <int-e> Which btw is something that Infinifactory does *not* have. It's not really about throughput and replicating machinery.
01:24:52 <b_jonas> so if you have an input pipe and two output pipes, one north and one south, then it cuts the shape north-south, but if the two output pipes are west and east then it cuts east-west, and if the two output pipes are up and down then it cuts to up and down halves
01:24:59 <int-e> Hmm, there was a selection mechanism though, which I remeber using quite a bit for *moving* things. Maybe you can copy stuff too. I forgot!
01:25:41 <b_jonas> and you need to use a merge with the straight input unused to rotate your shape in a way that doesn't keep the direction facing the way the shape moves in the pipe
01:25:48 <b_jonas> that combined with a rotator
01:27:08 <b_jonas> and, while you don't necessarily need to rotate (cube or) sphere octants because you can mine all (one or) eight orientations, you do have to rotate cylinder and hexagon octants
01:27:09 <int-e> I guess the fact that the z dimension has "only" 16 layers is already the answer... at large scale this will be mostly 2D
01:27:33 <int-e> with 3D used locally
01:27:49 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, that's the big problem, it's hard to make a video game UI that displays this well, and even harder to make one that controls well
01:28:03 <int-e> it's probably hard already with 16 layers
01:28:43 <b_jonas> at least until computers get holographic displays and a bat (3D mouse that you move in 3 to 6 degrees of freedom)
01:29:06 <int-e> Even with holographic displays our perception is still largely 2D
01:29:41 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, and your muscles are 2D and you walk on 1D roads and stairs/elevators, but you can still move around a 3D building
01:29:58 <int-e> Sure, using stairs and elevators.
01:30:00 <b_jonas> but we can't build arbitrarily high yet
01:30:17 <b_jonas> so you only need to navigate like twenty-something layers at most
01:30:31 <b_jonas> more if you live in a city with skyscrapers probably
01:32:15 <b_jonas> (NET, which is among the highest buildings in Budapest, has 21 layers above ground AFAIR, perhaps some basement levels, and there's two layers of underground very close to it on the street for the metro station
01:33:15 <b_jonas> (the parliament is taller but has fewer layers, and the cathedral may or may not be taller)
01:34:43 <b_jonas> apparently like 24 or 25 layers? I'm not sure
01:35:22 <int-e> I think they're conventionally called floors
01:35:36 <int-e> though that excludes the rooftop
01:36:10 <b_jonas> so at least 26 layers on Nagyvárad tér
01:38:46 <b_jonas> I don't insist on exactly 16 layers of cubies by the way
01:40:29 <b_jonas> 11 layers is enoguh in theory, but I want to leave a bit more for convenience
01:43:04 <b_jonas> and it's likely that you would have to change much more of this to get a usable video game, or that the whole 3D shapes idea just doesn't work out, though I'm pretty sure just the belts on edges in 2D would work
01:43:40 <b_jonas> by the way in the 2D factorio-like version of this, you'd build factory buildings on a rectangle of cube tiles, and instead of inserters you lead a belt directly into or out the boundary
01:44:10 <b_jonas> so part of the belt is visible, disappearing in a gate of the building
01:45:06 <int-e> Sorry, I'll sleep now.
01:45:10 <b_jonas> in TTD/OpenTTD you build roads on edges just like this, only it's not just two but four different orientations of road on an edge, and you build a lot more things other than roads
01:45:33 <b_jonas> yeah, I should too. but we have a channel log. g'nite.
02:19:35 <b_jonas> thank you for mentioning Infinifactory. definitely worth knowing about at least.
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11:06:32 <esolangs> [[Night Shift]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104161 * Hakerh400 * (+9488) +[[Night Shift]]
11:06:51 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104162&oldid=104153 * Hakerh400 * (+18) +[[Night Shift]]
11:07:05 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104163&oldid=104154 * Hakerh400 * (+18) +[[Night Shift]]
11:12:09 <esolangs> [[Night Shift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104164&oldid=104161 * Hakerh400 * (-4) /* Rewriting rules */
11:14:10 <esolangs> [[Night Shift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104165&oldid=104164 * Hakerh400 * (+27)
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12:22:17 <esolangs> [[Basic Programming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104166&oldid=104160 * Oshaboy * (+24) Sinclair Basic
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14:35:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Andor ch * New user account
14:42:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104167&oldid=104092 * Andor ch * (+245) ~~~~
14:45:10 <esolangs> [[User:Andor ch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104168 * Andor ch * (+261) Created page with " Hi my name is andor_ch, we are working on [https://www.brainfuckconsole74.ch www.brainfuckconsole74.ch]. This is a fantasy console and extends brainfuck on several simple co..."
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14:48:41 <esolangs> [[User:Andor ch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104171&oldid=104168 * Andor ch * (+37)
14:51:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104172&oldid=104162 * Andor ch * (+25) Added a entry for brainfuckconsole74 a fantasy console extending brainfuck
14:54:24 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104173 * Andor ch * (+250) Created page with " BrainFuckConsole is a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_video_game_console minimalistic fantasy console]. The idea of this console: It could be come from the 70ies of th..."
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15:03:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Andor ch * uploaded "[[File:Screenshot.png]]"
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15:05:44 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104177&oldid=104176 * Andor ch * (+149)
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15:11:42 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104180&oldid=104179 * Andor ch * (+70)
15:12:15 <esolangs> [[Whenever]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104181&oldid=30436 * Yes * (+335) expanded it a little
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16:06:03 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104205&oldid=101603 * Maxdefolsch * (-23) /* Optimizing implementations */
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16:19:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104208&oldid=95115 * Andor ch * (+14) /* Input/output capabilities */
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17:00:04 <esolangs> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104213&oldid=104212 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-155) /* Program structure */
17:12:44 <esolangs> [[XENBLN/Commands]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104214&oldid=102068 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-259) Update header, scroll, remove smart quotes
17:24:57 <esolangs> [[Apple3.14]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104215&oldid=79338 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Implementation */ Category
17:28:00 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104216&oldid=104210 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-37) /* Metagame */ Remove nonexistent categories, fix category
17:28:08 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104217&oldid=104216 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-25) /* Metagame */ .
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01:39:18 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104218&oldid=104159 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+294) Formatted the command table entries as code and supplemented a note regarding the Common Lisp implementation's features.
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06:58:14 <esolangs> [[13 bytes :D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104219&oldid=104156 * Esolang1 * (+83) Added warning:compiler error
07:31:05 <esolangs> [[Velocityfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104220 * Esolang1 * (+1800) Created page: Velocityfuck
07:31:55 <esolangs> [[User:Esolang1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104221&oldid=104142 * Esolang1 * (+19) Added language: Velocityfuck
07:33:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104222&oldid=104172 * Esolang1 * (+19) Added language: Velocityfuck
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14:53:38 <esolangs> [[Velocityfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104223&oldid=104220 * Esolang1 * (+1) Fixed: behavior
14:55:13 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104224&oldid=101670 * Esolang1 * (-18) Removed category: OISC
15:08:18 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104225 * Esolang1 * (+2236) Created page: Enrtopy++
15:08:53 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104226&oldid=104225 * Esolang1 * (+30) Fixed typos: Cat
15:09:23 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104227&oldid=104226 * Esolang1 * (+4) Fixed typos: Cat, 99 Bottles of Beer
15:09:30 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104228&oldid=104224 * Esolang1 * (+16) Fixed typos: Syntax, Added language: Enrtopy++
15:11:47 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104229&oldid=104222 * Esolang1 * (+30) Added languages: Enrtopy, enrtopy++
15:12:47 <esolangs> [[User:Esolang1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104230&oldid=104221 * Esolang1 * (+16) Added language: Ertopy++
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15:39:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104234&oldid=104167 * OrrinPants * (+252) /* Introductions */
15:40:02 <esolangs> [[User:OrrinPants]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104235 * OrrinPants * (+35) Created page with "This text is so the link isn't red."
15:40:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:OrrinPants]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104236 * OrrinPants * (+119) /* Redlink Removal */ new section
15:43:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:K]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104237 * OrrinPants * (+196) /* What the brain**** code outputs */ new section
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18:05:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104238&oldid=102340 * Palaiologos * (+86) Matrix link for the Esolangs discord server.
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19:03:11 <esolangs> [[User:OrrinPants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104239&oldid=104235 * OrrinPants * (+409)
20:24:08 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104240&oldid=103754 * Lampe2020 * (+795) Added syntax description
20:27:53 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104241&oldid=104240 * Lampe2020 * (-6) /* Syntax */ Fixed typo ('spaces' instead of 'arrows')
20:33:40 <esolangs> [[Arrowey]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104242&oldid=104241 * Lampe2020 * (+273) /* Syntax */ Added more syntax info.
23:57:17 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104243&oldid=104062 * Quintopia * (+97) disambiguation
07:46:47 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104244&oldid=104227 * Esolang1 * (-6) Fixed typos: I/O
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12:25:24 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104245&oldid=104243 * Rdococ * (-10)
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13:32:15 <esolangs> [[LMBC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104246&oldid=59134 * Jan Gamecuber * (+29) Adding text wrap for long code
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17:19:30 <esolangs> [[CAPscript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104247&oldid=76688 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+7) Stub, fix link format
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19:36:16 <Lymia> Guess what. I'm still alive. :D
19:37:18 <int-e> How can you be sure?
19:38:33 <int-e> I wish I had noted the source together with this bit: "Hey, there! Are you hibernating or are you dead?" -- "I'm not hibernating, I guess I must be dead. Funny,I don't remember being dead when I woke up this morning." -- "Maybe it happened while you weren't looking." -- "What if it happened a long time ago? What if I died, and all this time I've been living a lie?"
20:16:50 <int-e> (I *think* that bit came from one of the defunct eso(teric|lang) mailing lists about 20% of a century ago)
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20:24:39 <zzo38> What is it called if things do not exist but only the relations between everything (whether they are mathematical, or physical stuff, etc) is real?
20:28:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: there's http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2018-09-06.2551.licornes-mathematiques.html#d.2018-09-06.2551 which calls unicorns the mathematical objects that don't exist but are still useful enough that we try to find out what their properties are. the most famous example is complex numbers, which we know don't exist because it's not hard to prove that the square of any real number is
20:29:00 <b_jonas> but I'm not sure if this is what you're after from your question
20:29:28 <b_jonas> do you instead mean objects that are fictional, but still affect our real world through what our culture says about them?
20:30:39 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering, can you cast Suspend on an Attraction which has been changed into a creature and then when it runs out of time counters it will be sent to the junkyard, or does it remain exiled?
20:31:21 <Lymia> No, I'm a magical girl.
20:31:26 <Lymia> I thought we established this years ago.
20:31:45 <zzo38> b_jonas: No, what I mean is that nothing exists by itself; the reality is the relations between everything, which make them "exist" by Platonic realm, rather than the objects itself being (whether they are mathematical objects or physical objects; it applies just as well to both).
20:32:36 <b_jonas> I think the unicorn concept applies to physics too
20:33:12 <zzo38> Since, nothing is meaningful by itself; only the relations between everything is meaningful.
20:34:21 <b_jonas> isn't everything in mathematics like that?
20:34:58 <zzo38> I mean everything in everything, not only mathematics.
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20:35:42 <int-e> Lymia: but what did you do to get banished into this sh*thole of an unmagical world
20:36:04 <int-e> (I mean the planet. This channel is a bit of a refuge.)
20:39:37 <Lymia> I think I talked back to the queen too much as a kid.
20:43:46 <b_jonas> which queen? Beatrix or Elizabeth?
20:44:31 <int-e> Some (approximation of a) fairy queen.
20:45:56 <int-e> I hardly know anything about magical girls, I only have third-party exposure to the genre.
20:47:26 <Lymia> Def Titania, yes. :o
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20:49:41 <Luci-ghoule> didn't accept any shady terms from suspiciously cute white flying cats?
20:51:19 <Lymia> Nope. Just made a few oaths with the Fae. No biggie.
20:52:27 <int-e> . o O ( Only the Cheshire cat. I did it for the smile. )
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23:45:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Josias * New user account
23:48:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104248&oldid=104234 * Josias * (+163) Introduce Josias
23:50:05 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104249&oldid=94979 * Josias * (+0) Fix minor spelling errors
23:50:23 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104250&oldid=104249 * Josias * (+1) /* Language Overview */
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02:29:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Xysdd * New user account
02:49:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104251&oldid=104248 * Xysdd * (+138) /* Introductions */
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14:12:42 <esolangs> [[User:TuxCrafting]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104252&oldid=69874 * TuxCrafting * (-447)
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19:03:43 <esolangs> [[Livefish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104253&oldid=79132 * DockedChutoy * (+353) Added an Python interpreter.
19:04:24 <esolangs> [[User:DockedChutoy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104254&oldid=97872 * DockedChutoy * (+35)
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21:14:33 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104255&oldid=104105 * McChuck * (+272) /* Format */
21:17:28 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104256&oldid=104255 * McChuck * (-2) /* Format */
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21:19:16 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104257&oldid=104256 * McChuck * (+1) /* Example program */
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21:36:03 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104258&oldid=104257 * McChuck * (+1066) /* Example program */
21:36:38 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104259&oldid=104258 * McChuck * (+0) /* Format */
21:37:23 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104260&oldid=104259 * McChuck * (+2) /* Format */
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07:09:16 <zzo38> I had recently (yesterday and today) made up a implementation of uxn. It mostly works, although a few things are incomplete (e.g. there is no sound, file writing does not work, there is not a lot of debugging capabilities, etc). Some features are configurable by command-line arguments, and some possible new features also will be configurable in this way.
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10:07:21 <esolangs> [[7 bytes XD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104261 * DockedChutoy * (+406) Created page with "'''7 bytes XD''' is an esolang made by [[User:Dockedchutoy]] with the goal of creating the smallest interpreter. == Instructions == Every program is valid. Sadly there is no..."
10:07:53 <esolangs> [[7 bytes XD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104262&oldid=104261 * DockedChutoy * (+0)
10:08:54 <esolangs> [[Livefish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104263&oldid=104253 * DockedChutoy * (+0) need to fix my name aaaaaa
10:11:18 <esolangs> [[User:DockedChutoy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104264&oldid=104254 * DockedChutoy * (+108)
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11:08:43 <esolangs> [[Category theory]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104265&oldid=87540 * Simple9371 * (+235) Edited first few sentences and changed the composition operator
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12:09:00 <b_jonas> I have a question about branding
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12:16:14 <b_jonas> Microsoft brands the MS SQL software just "SQL server". it gets installed bundled with several popular programs, and when you run them, it calls the process just "SQL Server" prominently in the task manager. its lower tier editions are free, and it gets integrated into MS's developer IDE. they even have a decent claim that the name isn't misleading because their software is so old the name is reasonably
12:16:21 <b_jonas> grandfathered for what was once the SQL server on Windows. it sounds like this would fool beginner developers into thinking that that's the only SQL server, or at least the only good one or the definitive one that they should use, and any other SQL servers are inferior clones. given all this, why the fuck is MySQL so popular among the incompetent web developers? I understand when people regret that they
12:16:26 <b_jonas> were using MySQL instead of PostGres, but why does everyone find MySQL rather than MS SQL in first place?
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13:37:28 <esolangs> [[7 bytes XD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104266&oldid=104262 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+155) Categories
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14:39:27 <Luci-ghoule> isn't MSSQL having a free tier relatively recent?
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14:41:42 <Luci-ghoule> ' The "Express" branding has been used since the release of SQL Server 2005.'
14:43:41 <Luci-ghoule> do webdevs using the MS ecosystem with things like C#/.NET on the backend also use MySQL for storage? I would expect them to be more likely to use MS SQL
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16:22:56 <b_jonas> it's possible that some of the popularity is that a lot of free or cheap dynamic webhosting have PHP and MySQL available but not much else
16:23:41 <b_jonas> or had, back when virtualizing a whole host was harder
16:26:36 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104267&oldid=104260 * McChuck * (+428) /* Format */
16:27:18 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104268&oldid=104267 * McChuck * (+1) /* Format */
16:30:05 <esolangs> [[Subleq+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104269&oldid=95823 * McChuck * (+44) /* External resources */
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16:30:23 <esolangs> [[Subleq+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104270&oldid=104269 * McChuck * (-1) /* See also */
16:30:46 <esolangs> [[Subleq+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104271&oldid=104270 * McChuck * (+3) /* See also */
16:37:57 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104272&oldid=104268 * McChuck * (+2) /* Format */
16:39:13 <esolangs> [[Trichotomy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104273&oldid=104272 * McChuck * (+0) /* Example program */
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16:44:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:Trichotomy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104274 * McChuck * (+231) Trichotomy introduction
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17:22:21 <esolangs> [[ABPLWNL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104275&oldid=104112 * Mario0Fan * (+26)
17:29:59 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104276 * Mario0Fan * (+1262) Created page with "'''!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!''' is an esolang made by [[User:Mario0Fan]] It is designed to be a pain in the butt to use. ==How it works== !I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E! has 3 commands tha..."
17:30:16 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104277&oldid=104276 * Mario0Fan * (+0) /* How it works */
17:31:14 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104278&oldid=104277 * Mario0Fan * (+24) /* How it works */
17:32:12 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104279&oldid=104278 * Mario0Fan * (+128)
17:32:45 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104280&oldid=104279 * Mario0Fan * (+1)
17:32:55 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104281&oldid=104280 * Mario0Fan * (+0)
17:42:04 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104282&oldid=104281 * Mario0Fan * (+700)
17:42:28 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104283&oldid=104282 * Mario0Fan * (+3)
17:42:36 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104284&oldid=104283 * Mario0Fan * (-2)
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18:21:59 <esolangs> [[User:Mario0Fan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104285&oldid=104134 * Mario0Fan * (+29)
18:22:24 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104286&oldid=104284 * Mario0Fan * (-53)
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18:58:46 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104287&oldid=104286 * Mario0Fan * (+25)
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19:52:44 <esolangs> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104288&oldid=96099 * Zzo38 * (+247) Uxn
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20:57:00 <ixistenz> Hi there, i put our new fantasy console brainfuckconsole74 on esolangs. It extends brainfuck essentially with 3 commands (! render first 256 Cells as 16x16 Pixels, ; Reads Interfaces like buttons in the cell, # plays notes). You find it here www.brainfuckconsole74.ch. Because there are more and more interactive esolangs. I think the Wiki
20:57:00 <ixistenz> should have an Interactivity category. Just a thought ixistenz
21:02:46 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104289&oldid=103810 * Yes * (+50)
21:02:59 <b_jonas> ixistenz: I think we don't have a category for interactive i/o exactly because it's very common, almost the default for a full-fleshed language, and it's almost always easy to tell from the description (unlike, say, Turing-complete, which is also so common it's often the default but is sometimes hard to determine)
21:03:30 <b_jonas> but feel free to discuss on https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization#Interactive_versus_non-interactive_IO
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21:16:01 <ixistenz> In my opinion direct Input over pressed Keys Or mouse Input is Quite a different thing than Classic Input. But Never mind.
21:22:29 <ixistenz> But Looking at the discussion it is clear why there will be never one. and that is ok.
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22:54:06 <b_jonas> when you shut down Windows, it can be funny that the messages that it's shutting down sometimes keep changing their mind about what language they are in. it makes sense because they're not associated to any one user account so there's no good way to pick the right language, but still.
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23:46:38 <zzo38> Does Windows have a system locale? If it does not or cannot be determined, then it should just display the message in English, otherwise the system locale should be used if possible (unless the file with the text for that language is not installed), isn't it? That would be how to display text that the user's language setting cannot be used?
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01:55:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know if it has a system locale
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02:09:40 <b_jonas> hey look, python 3.11 is now released. as of a few days ago.
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04:55:17 <b_jonas> ok so why is the cpython embed interface and the libcurl interface built around vararg functions? printf and scanf are very old, so using varargs for those is kind of forgivable, but why would someone do that for the central functions of a new C interface?
04:57:32 <b_jonas> by the way when was O_CREAT invented? I know it wasn't in the first unices, which is why there's still a creat syscall in the abi, but I wonder if vararg was reasonable then.
04:59:00 <b_jonas> ioctl and fcntl are also clearly very old, based on their syscall number
05:00:48 <b_jonas> whereas newer system interfaces like getsockopt get a more reasonable non-vararg interface (at least in the libc; the underlying syscall has variable number of arguments, but it's not like it's a C vararg, it has a different ABI)
05:01:45 <b_jonas> (ah no, even that one has a fixed number and type of arguments)
05:02:22 <b_jonas> (also even that's only on x86-32 apparently)
05:03:40 <b_jonas> but really, what possesses someone to invent entirely new C-vararg functions, as opposed to just variants of established ones (printf, scanf, strftime)?
05:04:23 <b_jonas> (outside of an esoprogramming context obviously)
05:05:10 <b_jonas> (if you manage to put varargs in a winning IOCCC entry then I'd congratulate you)
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08:06:49 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104290&oldid=104287 * Mario0Fan * (-28)
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09:50:14 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104291&oldid=104229 * Mario0Fan * (+28)
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11:05:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheHexagon * New user account
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19:35:59 <esolangs> [[User:FLeckami21/vector.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104292 * FLeckami21 * (+36) Created page with "* { background-color: #222222; }"
19:38:19 <esolangs> [[User:FLeckami21/vector.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104293&oldid=104292 * FLeckami21 * (-36) Blanked the page
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20:51:33 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104294&oldid=103953 * Dtp09 * (-83) /* Interpreter */
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21:32:25 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104295&oldid=104294 * Dtp09 * (+775) /* Interpreter */
21:33:44 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104296&oldid=104295 * Dtp09 * (+188) /* Hello, World! */
21:40:56 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104297&oldid=104296 * Dtp09 * (+42) /* Hello, World! */
21:45:24 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104298&oldid=104297 * Dtp09 * (+263) /* Truth Machine */
21:45:35 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104299&oldid=104298 * Dtp09 * (-11) /* Hello, World! */
21:46:43 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104300&oldid=104299 * Dtp09 * (-1) /* Truth Machine */
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22:39:23 <int-e> . o O ( Wtf is a "Firefox Account", I'm not an accountant... ;-) )
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03:48:11 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104301&oldid=104300 * Dtp09 * (+0) /* Update Log */
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07:52:34 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Fancryer * New user account
08:05:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104302&oldid=104251 * Fancryer * (+231)
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08:53:05 <esolangs> [[User:Fancryer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104303 * Fancryer * (+193) Created page with "Enthusiast programmer from Engels (Russia). I am interested in creating programming languages, parsing and creating games. Creator of the [[GAXT]] language and GASM which is t..."
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10:36:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tat2feuille * New user account
10:44:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104304&oldid=104302 * Tat2feuille * (+106) Tat2feuille's Introduction
10:45:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104305&oldid=104304 * Tat2feuille * (-15) repaired my signature (i'm dumb)
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10:46:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104306&oldid=104305 * Tat2feuille * (+2) repaired my signature (i'm dumb) 2
10:47:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104307&oldid=104306 * Tat2feuille * (+184) wat
10:48:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104308&oldid=104307 * Tat2feuille * (-105) I finally understood!
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10:50:04 <esolangs> [[User:Tat2feuille]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104309 * Tat2feuille * (+9) bobux
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15:12:05 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104310&oldid=104290 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+147) Infobox, categories
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18:51:50 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104311 * Fancryer * (+8357) GAXT page created
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19:00:39 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104312&oldid=104311 * Fancryer * (+120) Added if-then-else example
19:03:21 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104313&oldid=104312 * Fancryer * (+2) /* Conditional branching */
19:08:11 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104314&oldid=104313 * Fancryer * (-68) /* Flow */
19:08:37 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104315&oldid=104314 * Fancryer * (+1) /* Planned */
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19:29:01 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104316&oldid=104315 * Fancryer * (+257) Infobox created
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01:00:03 <esolangs> [[User:Ron.hudson]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104317&oldid=52263 * Ron.hudson * (+83) New News.
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07:04:57 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104318&oldid=104316 * Fancryer * (+9)
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09:55:37 <esolangs> [[GAXT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104319&oldid=104318 * Fancryer * (+2) /* Math */
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14:54:51 <esolangs> [[Alphaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104320&oldid=103862 * ColonelMatthew97 * (+1) /* Notes */
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20:21:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CATboardBETA * New user account
20:29:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104321&oldid=104308 * CATboardBETA * (+191) added my intro
20:31:57 <esolangs> [[A pi e]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104322 * CATboardBETA * (+63) Created page with "= a pi e = Esoteric programming language, coming soon!"
20:32:08 <esolangs> [[A pi e]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104323&oldid=104322 * CATboardBETA * (-20)
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20:39:34 <esolangs> [[A pi e]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104324&oldid=104323 * CATboardBETA * (+247) Add categorization
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01:07:12 <shachaf> int-e: Have you seen https://bonfirepeaks.com/ ?
01:08:16 <b_jonas> everyone who follows European or Israeli daylight saving time rules, don't forget, clocks changed yesterday, so we go to work later tomorrow
01:09:10 <int-e> shachaf: I have not
01:10:11 <int-e> b_jonas: isn't Monday the day after Sunday?
01:10:50 <int-e> (If yesterday was Sunday and tomorrow is Monday, what is today?)
01:11:16 <int-e> I do recognize the makers
01:11:19 <shachaf> I'm not quite sure what b_jonas means, but in Israel the workweek starts on Sunday.
01:13:13 <shachaf> It also seems reminiscent of Stephen's Sausage Roll, though I've just started.
01:13:15 <b_jonas> no, I just mean Israel has a subtly different daylight saving rule from most of Europe
01:13:43 <int-e> Funny, my first association was SSR as well. It's the graphics style
01:14:41 <shachaf> Right, the style is definitely similar, and there are other clear connections.
01:14:46 <int-e> oh and they even have the forklift mechanic
01:16:11 <int-e> but it's less minimalistic. boxes, crates, fire? maybe more, I'm just looking at the animations on the itch.io page
01:16:48 <int-e> ah, down below... long boxes too
01:17:21 <int-e> there are some hiding place vibes too? (not the hiding mechanic, but there seems to be some lifting of items)
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13:05:27 <esolangs> [[Butng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104325&oldid=58718 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+65) Categories
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17:18:36 <esolangs> [[Sabdt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104326&oldid=82394 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) /* Brainfuck Interpreter (Nested Loops up to 254 times) */ Add categories
17:25:38 <esolangs> [[OISC:2bis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104327&oldid=97749 * McChuck * (+53) /* See also */
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20:12:22 <int-e> Oh another silly redactle: https://www.redactle.com/
20:12:33 <int-e> (for the next 20-ish hours)
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20:47:28 <b_jonas> hmm, let me see. that's (counts) 31 days and a half in that calendar. that leaves seven months.
20:47:53 <b_jonas> the title is 7 months long
20:48:01 <b_jonas> let me cheat and get a list of English month names
20:50:28 <b_jonas> ok, there are only two that are 7 months long
20:50:59 <b_jonas> guessed the right one based on the clues
20:52:30 <int-e> b_jonas: nznmvatyl ybbxvat ng gur qnlf bs gur jrrx qbrf abg qvfnzovthngr gubfr gjb zbaguf
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21:33:31 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104328&oldid=103966 * SpaceByte * (+418) 1.4 stuff
21:49:46 <esolangs> [[User:Pptx704]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104329&oldid=94142 * Pptx704 * (+8)
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22:02:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Staninna * New user account
22:07:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104330&oldid=104321 * Staninna * (+216) Introduction Staninna
22:13:37 <esolangs> [[Spyrodecimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104331&oldid=75226 * Staninna * (-194) Edited Hello World program to be compacter and print hello world instead of hello
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