←2007-09 2007-10 2007-11→ ↑2007 ↑all
2007-10-01
00:00:00 <oerjan> @let primes = nubBy ((>1).gcd) [2..]
00:00:38 <oklopol> hehe
00:02:52 <oerjan> should have been @let primes = nubBy (((>1).).gcd) [2..]
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00:08:00 <oklopol> ah, i thought there was something weird in you saying that in here, but indeed, it must've been that error.
00:13:38 <ihope> immibis: maybe it's the \ in [^ \$]
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03:58:48 <oklopol> i've found another immibis
03:59:30 <oklopol> i think he's mating or something!
03:59:37 <oklopol> drinkity ->
04:12:24 <bsmntbombdood> oh no
04:12:34 <oklopol> :D
04:13:01 <oklopol> (i guess i might not have said that had i realized immibis was actually here, but i stand behind my statement xD)
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05:18:10 <immibis> oklopol: wtf?
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12:32:28 <SimonRC> hi
12:34:17 <RodgerTheGreat> hey
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13:52:41 <SimonRC> hi * 2
14:08:40 <oerjan> ackermann(hi, hi)
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16:46:06 <bsmntbombdood> we need to start our interprecompiler
18:05:56 <GregorR> ?
18:37:44 <bsmntbombdood> for IOCC
18:57:30 <RodgerTheGreat> my idea was to create something like a polyglot in reverse
18:57:44 <RodgerTheGreat> an interpreter and/or compiler for a bunch of different esolangs mooshed together
18:57:59 <RodgerTheGreat> and then, naturally, cut to ribbons to obfuscate it
18:59:51 <GregorR> Hrm.
19:08:44 * SimonRC goes
19:38:12 <bsmntbombdood> brainfuck and unlambda are a good combination because they are so different
19:38:43 <bsmntbombdood> so if you combine code for them, it will probably be completely ununderstandable
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20:14:43 <bsmntbombdood> i should write an unlambda interpreter regardless
20:23:29 <GregorR> If it's ununderstandable, does that mean it's derstandable?
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20:34:30 <molchuvka> RodgerTheGreat -- i will soon start writing a language which will have other languages as its sub-languages
20:35:47 <molchuvka> and will allow for adding additional languages using program source code (i.e. compilation units -- programs -- will add languages, it is not a install procedure but a property of compiler)
20:37:00 <molchuvka> that is, a program will be able to define one or more new sub-languages, and will be able to immediately use them
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20:37:34 <ehird`> toboge?
21:15:12 <jix> forth can do that... kind of
21:15:35 <jix> i think you can just change how the parser works right in your code
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21:23:58 <ehird`> what what
21:24:24 <oerjan> what molchuvka said just before you entered
21:26:02 <molchuvka> jix yes i know forth do some degree
21:26:14 <molchuvka> jix -- i plan even more
21:26:28 <jix> molchuvka: i think you can change everything with some forth systems
21:26:40 <jix> everything as in you can change the complete code of the parser compiler and everything
21:27:17 <molchuvka> behavior and code of compiler will be influenced at runtime by program code --- i.e. program code will be able to have a complex impact on compiler behavior, interacting compiler and program code
21:27:47 <molchuvka> jix yeah, i guess so
21:28:47 <molchuvka> but well... my language will be free syntax, noone did this in forth
21:29:16 <molchuvka> though it is possible, yes
21:30:21 <oklopol> also plof can do that
21:30:28 <molchuvka> i have a lot of expirience with ll1 grammars
21:30:38 * molchuvka googling plof
21:30:47 <oklopol> GregorR's language
21:30:51 <oklopol> one of them, that is
21:31:14 <oerjan> i recall something similar on lambda the ultimate a while ago
21:31:51 <molchuvka> also i plan that names are any objects
21:32:15 <oerjan> a language which could embed other languages' syntax
21:32:25 <molchuvka> e.g. name can be rich text or image or animation or applet
21:32:29 <oklopol> i got a pocket pc, btw! i'm the coolest ever
21:32:59 <oklopol> now if i could just find an irc client, my life would be perfect
21:33:22 * molchuvka away
21:37:23 <GregorR> oklopol: I had a Pocket PC. Then I installed a real OS :P
21:40:25 <molchuvka> i currently plan using Oberon-2 as a bootstrap language
21:40:53 <ehird`> molchuvka: you are wrong
21:40:55 <ehird`> forth is free syntax
21:41:05 <molchuvka> ehird` I agree
21:41:22 <molchuvka> where am I wrong? a quote please
21:45:42 <oklopol> GregorR: on that, or was that a joke i didn't get? :)
21:46:46 <oklopol> i have windows mobile on this, is it easy to get a nix in?
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21:48:59 <GregorR> oklopol: Depends on what model.
21:49:01 <GregorR> oklopol: For most, no.
21:49:07 <oklopol> pocket loox something...
21:49:25 <GregorR> oklopol: Since there's literally zero architecture standardization, porting to one is pretty much a once-off task.
21:49:25 <oklopol> don't remember the exact model right now...
21:49:37 <oklopol> yeah
21:49:52 <oklopol> I'LL DO IT!
21:50:08 <oklopol> hmm... or then not.
21:53:22 <RodgerTheGreat> lol- check this joke out:
21:53:25 <RodgerTheGreat> "ternary ? those who know it : those who don't"
21:54:48 * oerjan thinks that joke has simply too many meta-levels
21:54:56 <RodgerTheGreat> most likely
21:54:57 <oerjan> i'm not even sure it has a point
21:55:02 <ehird`> There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who know binary, and those who don't.
21:55:02 <GregorR> I think it has too few.
21:55:07 <ehird`> And those who confuse it with ternary.
21:55:09 <ehird`> ;)
21:55:14 <GregorR> It has no real meaning.
21:55:22 <RodgerTheGreat> but this is the most likely place I know of for people to appreciate it
21:55:27 <GregorR> :P
21:55:32 <ehird`> MINE IS MORE FUNAY
21:55:50 <GregorR> There are infinity kinds of people in this world. Those who understand base-1 math, and those who don't.
21:55:51 <oerjan> USE YOUR NAY-FU
21:56:25 <ehird`> GregorR: I hate people who call base-1 unary.
21:56:40 <ehird`> If base 2 = 01, then base 1 = 0
21:56:54 <ehird`> thus everything is 0 in base 1
21:59:14 <oerjan> interesting point
21:59:15 <RodgerTheGreat> everything is base 10. How do you write 8 in base-8? 10. How do you write 3 in base-3? 10.
22:00:19 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: you blew my mind!
22:00:46 <RodgerTheGreat> as keanu reeves would say, "woah!"
22:00:53 <GregorR> ehird`: 0 is 0. Now increase by one, and you'll end up in an infinite loop trying to define digits.
22:01:02 <ehird`> :-)
22:01:16 <GregorR> Hence, infinity kinds of people.
22:01:24 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: Sam Hughes suggested that should be used for a first-contact comedy ;)
22:01:37 <RodgerTheGreat> more like disaster
22:01:54 <ehird`> "infinity" in language refers to infinity as in a number > all other numbers, not infinite number-base expansion
22:02:00 <ehird`> which is why .9r is not infinity ;)
22:02:01 <RodgerTheGreat> we should definitely use unary until we understand each other to some degree
22:02:17 <ehird`> yes
22:02:25 <ehird`> but, how should you transmit the message?
22:02:32 <ehird`> you can't do ASCII
22:02:35 <ehird`> you can't use english
22:02:38 <ehird`> you can't signal with binary
22:02:43 <ehird`> you can basically do nothing
22:02:59 <oklopol> without binary, there's nothing
22:03:05 <RodgerTheGreat> gotta start somewhere
22:03:10 <ehird`> if an alien beams down to try and communicate with you
22:03:12 <ehird`> you're hopeless
22:03:23 <ehird`> (Assuming alien has no knowledge of humans)
22:03:40 <oerjan> reverse run-length encoding
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2007-10-02
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00:57:39 <pikhq> oerjan: Hey.
00:57:59 <pikhq> Out of *immense* curiosity, why are you no longer a first-class player in Agora?
01:01:05 <GregorR> Because, although you can store oerjan in a variable, you cannot pass oerjan as an argument to a function.
01:02:15 <ihope> Variable, you say? How hideous.
01:02:16 <pikhq> LMAO
01:02:34 <ihope> You don't see variables hanging around in math, do you? :-P
01:02:46 <oerjan> sure you do
01:03:01 <oerjan> they're just not _mutable_ variables
01:03:42 <ihope> If they're not mutable, they're not very variable, are they?
01:04:05 <GregorR> They're variables because their value depends on unknown information (generally speaking).
01:05:20 <GregorR> I love how I've prevented oerjan from actually asking the original question :P
01:05:33 <GregorR> s/asking/answering/ >_O
01:05:49 <ihope> Now preventing him further would require some creativity on your part.
01:06:06 <ihope> You just provoked him.
01:06:20 <GregorR> How did I screw up "answering" for "asking"...
01:06:26 <GregorR> I mean, they're related, but yeesh X-D
01:06:28 <ihope> Wait, did I just stifle him by saying you provoked him? Oh, wait, I provoked him by pointing out the stifling.
01:06:37 <GregorR> I'm just going to call it an incredibly intense typo.
01:06:39 <ihope> They're related and start with a. Therefore, they're confusable.
01:06:58 <GregorR> Like apples and artichoke!
01:07:17 <ihope> I don't think those are quite related enough.
01:07:34 <GregorR> They're both edible plant stuff.
01:07:38 <ihope> People ask questions regularly, and they answer questions regularly, and in about the same circumstances.
01:07:49 <pikhq> oerjan?
01:07:51 <ihope> They don't eat apples and artichokes in the same circumstances, generally.
01:08:11 <GregorR> You've never had my famous apple-glazed artichoke apparently.
01:08:37 <ihope> Indeed.
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01:11:18 * oerjan is realizing he may have to actually answer the question, despite GregorR's best attempts
01:11:30 <GregorR> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
01:11:45 <GregorR> I did such a good job of driving the conversation away, after I had myself drug it back just for the /challenge/.
01:12:06 <oerjan> oh. sorry about that.
01:12:06 <GregorR> I jumped from asking/answering to apple-glazed artichokes! Give me /some/ credit!
01:13:09 <GregorR> I think I might actually have to try apple-glazed artichokes X-D
01:13:24 <GregorR> On the surface it sounds horrible, but I think it might be one of those flavor combos that shouldn't work, but does.
01:13:39 <pikhq> I'm reminded, once again, that this is Gregor. :)
01:13:50 <oklopol> "(GregorR) How did I screw up "answering" for "asking"..." <<< yep, the laws of physics prevent him to do that
01:13:59 <oklopol> whoops
01:14:00 <oklopol> bad quote :D
01:14:05 <oklopol> anyways.
01:14:33 <GregorR> Clrealy Im' incaapble fo tpyos.
01:15:12 <ihope> Like ham and pineapple?
01:15:18 <pikhq> Mmm.
01:15:26 <ihope> Or... hmm.
01:15:35 <ihope> I'm trying to come up with a disgusting--oh, of course.
01:15:46 <ihope> Salisbury steak with strawberry ice cream.
01:15:46 <pikhq> Deep fried oil?
01:16:08 <GregorR> pikhq: How do you deep-fry oil? That's just mixing some oil into some other oil ...
01:16:12 <oerjan> anyway, i lost interest, even cut down a lot on my internet use. of course the last year has been just one large setback...
01:16:14 <ihope> I wouldn't call deep fried oil a disgusting flavor combination.
01:16:15 <GregorR> ihope: Is that /good/?
01:16:25 <pikhq> More just random.
01:16:29 <ihope> Salisbury steak with strawberry ice cream?
01:16:33 <ihope> I doubt it.
01:16:34 <GregorR> ihope: (Salistrawberry that is)
01:16:38 <GregorR> Heh
01:16:50 <pikhq> GregorR: Hmm. . .
01:16:58 <pikhq> Well, we could try to deep-fry lard. . .
01:17:21 <GregorR> 'round these parts, we call that pork rinds.
01:17:24 <GregorR> And they're deeeeeeeeeeeeelicious.
01:17:45 <pikhq> That's fried pig *skin*, not fat.
01:18:20 <GregorR> You don't cut the fat off the skin when you make pork rinds.
01:18:26 <pikhq> True.
01:18:38 <pikhq> BTW, I'm more just being random.
01:18:49 * oerjan is trying to remember Delirium's ice cream flavor from Sandman
01:19:58 <oerjan> ah yes, giyf. "Green Mouse and Telephone Icecream"
01:22:12 <GregorR> Yum
01:23:39 <ihope> Don't telephones contain Mercury?
01:23:45 <ihope> (Either the planet or the Roman god; I don't care.)
01:24:09 <GregorR> How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy!
01:25:21 <bsmntbombdood> so, how can we combine a brainfuck and unlambda interpreter?
01:25:52 <ihope> Take advantage of the fact that stack-based = suffix notation.
01:26:09 <ihope> Alternatively, 0x29A.
01:26:31 <bsmntbombdood> so?
01:27:00 <ihope> ...what are you after?
01:27:40 <bsmntbombdood> obfuscation
01:29:58 <ihope> Oh.
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03:09:05 * edwardk waves hello.
03:09:32 <bsmntbombdood> hi
03:09:42 <edwardk> how goes?
03:12:45 <oklopol> about 49
03:14:03 <immibis> oklopol: what did you mean when you said "i found another immibis"?
03:14:50 <edwardk> how progresses oklotalk?
03:21:23 <edwardk> gah rebooting
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03:30:18 <bsmntbombdood> heh, rebooting
03:36:14 <oklopol> immibis: i found a guy that's a lot like you.
03:36:22 <oklopol> so much like you that i had to say it somewhere.
03:36:34 <bsmntbombdood> grar >_<
03:36:40 <bsmntbombdood> i can't find the book i'm looking for
03:36:47 <oklopol> is it pron?
03:37:13 <bsmntbombdood> no
03:37:34 <oklopol> i don't understand
03:38:22 <bsmntbombdood> it was about a lesbian who pretended to be a man in order to pick up chicks, and ended up hating men because of her experiences
03:38:25 <bsmntbombdood> or something like that
03:38:57 <ihope> Pretending to be a man in order to pick up chicks?
03:39:19 <oklopol> is there something weird in that? :\
03:39:21 <ihope> "I have something to tell you." "What?" "I... I'm a woman." "WHAT?" *slam*
03:39:41 <ihope> Or am I misunderstanding?
03:39:53 <ihope> I'd better read today's xkcd to make sure.
03:40:07 <oklopol> well you can do other stuff, and tell her the truth once it'll be emotionally fatal for her to leave you
03:40:39 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure someone lying about their genitals isn't that eager to get naked.
03:40:41 <bsmntbombdood> ihope: she just did it to learn about a single, het, man's relationship with women
03:41:52 <ihope> Het?
03:42:09 <bsmntbombdood> heterosexual
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03:43:55 <bsmntbombdood> but i can't remember or find the title now :(
03:45:39 <RodgerTheGreat> It baffles me why someone would go to the internet to "pick up chicks" in the first place
03:46:02 <bsmntbombdood> the internet?
03:46:33 <bsmntbombdood> she didn't
03:47:22 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: the get them without having to go out?
03:47:25 <oklopol> *to get
03:47:59 <RodgerTheGreat> bsmntbombdood: oh, alright- that makes a tiny bit more sense
03:48:51 <bsmntbombdood> singles bars, etc
03:49:11 <RodgerTheGreat> yes
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04:50:32 <GregorR> Hmmm, is MISC supposed to increase its instruction pointer before or after branching? That is, do you branch to 0 to just branch to the next instruction, or branch to 1? ...
04:52:50 <bsmntbombdood> oisc is pwnage
04:53:01 <GregorR> I'm trying to write a quick MISC interpreter.
04:53:34 <GregorR> But I don't know whether branching to 0 is a loop or a noop...
04:54:52 <GregorR> IMHO, \0\0\0\0 should be a noop.
04:55:16 <GregorR> (That continues on the next instruction)
04:55:23 <GregorR> That is, IP would increment after branching.
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05:19:51 <Meldarion_inq> Hello people :)
05:23:45 <oklopol> Hello, world!
05:23:56 <Meldarion_inq> lol
05:24:02 <Meldarion_inq> how are you doing?
05:24:09 <oklopol> math test in 40 mins, and i did not sleep
05:24:12 <oklopol> mwahaha
05:24:17 <Meldarion_inq> what math?
05:24:18 <oklopol> i feel wobbly
05:24:23 <oklopol> err something trivial
05:24:29 <oklopol> probabilities etc.
05:24:33 <Meldarion_inq> lol - ok.
05:24:40 <oklopol> they don't teach anything in high school
05:25:44 <oklopol> i don't know if it's any use going to the test, i'm not gonna pass the course unless i do about 50 additional exercises, and i don't think i'm gonna
05:25:56 <oklopol> but then again, it can't hurt me
05:25:57 <oklopol> ->
05:27:26 <oklopol> btw, i just installed python on my pocket pc and it has almost all the library support the *real* python has
05:27:38 <oklopol> should i idolize python or microsoft for this?
05:28:02 <oklopol> anyways, gtg ->
05:29:15 <Meldarion_inq> yup
05:29:20 <Meldarion_inq> good luck with your exam
05:29:22 <Meldarion_inq> :D
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06:50:30 <GregorR> My MISC interpreter (+ memory mapped I/O) just printed an 'A' :)
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08:10:18 <oklopol> the exam was ridiculous
08:10:39 <oklopol> i'm sure everyone wants to know that ;)
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16:25:25 <GregorR> Anybody want to write a MISC backend for GCC? :P
16:26:41 <RodgerTheGreat> :S
16:36:10 <GregorR> http://www.choosemyhat.com/ < WTF???
16:36:21 <GregorR> Did somebody hack my vote?!
16:37:45 <GregorR> They're all from different IPs >_O
16:38:00 <GregorR> Somebody first hacked a bunch of other systems, and THEN hacked my hat site :P
16:38:52 <oklopol> 75 votes is more than the usual daily vote amount?
16:38:59 <oklopol> how much more
16:40:24 <GregorR> About 74
16:41:32 <RodgerTheGreat> heh
16:41:59 <oklopol> slight growth
16:42:11 <oklopol> tomorrow it'll get over a million.
16:42:24 <GregorR> So far, tomorrow has two.
16:44:11 <RodgerTheGreat> Saturday shall be red fedora day!
16:45:05 * oklopol goes haxxor now
16:45:41 <oklopol> umm...
16:45:48 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: well, at least you know whoever hacked your site is dedicated
16:46:02 <oklopol> i pressed a green hat and a blue one was chosen :<<
16:46:14 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, my. What would happen if somebody dugg ChooseMyHat.com?
16:46:19 <oklopol> but anyways, i already got one vote, 999997 left
16:46:34 <oklopol> let's all digg it!
16:46:42 <RodgerTheGreat> sweet christ
16:47:03 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: how can your webserver stand up to a slashdot?
16:47:16 <oklopol> actually, i have 3 ip's, so i could at least get 3 votes
16:47:33 <oklopol> err...... prolly don't just ban individual ip's, but the whole... set
16:47:34 <RodgerTheGreat> I have easy access to 2 unique IPs
16:47:47 <oklopol> ah
16:47:49 <RodgerTheGreat> actually... oh, computer lab access would be evil here
16:48:33 <oklopol> pretty easy to get 75 votes there, it's not like it's that hard to get people to press one button :P
16:49:43 <bsmntbombdood> i'd digg it
16:50:10 <bsmntbombdood> i only have access to one internet protocol
16:50:23 <RodgerTheGreat> if I understand correctly, digg items getting onto the main page is a function of the "velocity", or rate at which something gains diggs.
16:50:42 <RodgerTheGreat> if you can get about 7 people to digg in in a few minutes, it'll hit front page and take off like crazy
16:50:56 <bsmntbombdood> i better make an acount
16:51:07 <RodgerTheGreat> link us up once you make the post
16:51:35 <oklopol> hmm
16:51:39 <oklopol> i'll make one too
16:53:27 <bsmntbombdood> hopefully new acounts don't have less weight than old ones
16:53:50 <RodgerTheGreat> I dunno
16:54:14 <RodgerTheGreat> hurry up with the post- I gotta leave for class in a few minutes
16:54:29 <bsmntbombdood> me too
16:55:21 <oklopol> :>
16:55:22 <oklopol> :<
16:55:28 <oklopol> i haven't gotten the mail yet..
16:56:05 <RodgerTheGreat> well, g2g
16:56:08 <RodgerTheGreat> cy'all
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16:56:17 <oklopol> bye
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17:02:36 <bsmntbombdood> gar
17:02:48 <bsmntbombdood> hurry up GregorR
17:03:59 <oklopol> hmm... what should GregorR hurry?
17:04:23 <bsmntbombdood> digging choose my hat
17:04:44 <oklopol> he said he's gonna?
17:05:07 <bsmntbombdood> i dunno
17:06:52 <oklopol> digg does not like me
17:15:09 <ehird`> digging is easy
17:15:15 <ehird`> i got to #1 almost instantly
17:15:24 <ehird`> when i made The Most Pointless Site Ever
17:15:47 <ehird`> (if you weren't there: you made an account, then there was a number. there was a button to increase the number (for everyone else too) and a list of people who have clicked the most. That's it.)
17:15:56 <ehird`> it got #1 on digg for a long time
17:16:11 <ehird`> it was submitted, then the next day a few people had digged it
17:16:17 <ehird`> i had posted it on a forum i frequent
17:16:24 <ehird`> and people just ended up digging it
17:16:51 <ehird`> all in all it got over 600 diggs in total, digg used tons of scripts, and /b/ found it
17:16:57 <ehird`> so, digg's algo is kinda broken
17:17:00 <ehird`> promotes too easily
18:00:53 <SimonRC> heh
18:05:46 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm back
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18:24:41 * SimonRC goes to dinner
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18:58:11 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: digg plz
19:14:20 <ehird`> Context-Free Design Grammar is wow
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19:14:24 <ehird`> it has some esoterica in there
19:14:42 <ehird`> in that you can do infinite recursion as long as the part you draw gets infinitely small
19:14:47 <ehird`> which is crazy awesome
19:14:51 <ehird`> a very natural way to think about things
19:14:57 <ehird`> and must make things like the mandelbrot set trivial
19:15:12 <SimonRC> no
19:15:21 <SimonRC> The mandlebrot self is not self--similar
19:15:28 <ehird`> i know
19:16:36 <Sgeo> What are we talking about?
19:17:08 <ehird`> Context-Free Design Grammar
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21:35:58 <moomoo> let f be the mccarthy 91 function
21:37:47 <moomoo> please compute f(n) for every n between 0 and 100
21:45:03 <bsmntbom1dood> GregorR: WHERE:S TA DIGG?
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22:00:41 <bsmntbombdood> how am i supposed to talk about brainfuck with a teacher ?
22:01:51 <lament> very carefully.
22:02:05 <lament> maybe give your teacher flowers first?
22:03:26 <bsmntbombdood> today i just called it P''
22:05:16 <oerjan> call it brainhugsandkisses
22:05:32 <bsmntbombdood> maybe just BF
22:12:32 <ehird`> BrainF
22:12:53 <ehird`> brainsexualintercourse
22:13:04 <SimonRC> heh
22:13:29 <SimonRC> a clbuttic mistake
22:14:17 <ehird`> :)
22:14:28 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: hopefully any teacher intersted in it is the type that doesn't care about the words, just how they're used
22:16:07 <ehird`> BrainShit
22:16:10 <ehird`> BrainAsshole
22:16:21 <ehird`> plenty of options
22:17:16 <SimonRC> When talking about sex, there are few words that were not at some point a euphamism.
22:17:17 <lament> is "brain" a swear word? i don't think so.
22:18:05 <ehird`> BrainBrain
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22:18:14 <SimonRC> "sex" was originally male/female, "make love" is a euphamism, "shag" is random, ditto "rodger" etc.
22:18:36 <SimonRC> the only non-euphamism I can think of is "fuck" itself
22:18:55 <bsmntbombdood> hard to say if something is a euphamism
22:19:55 <SimonRC> etymology?
22:20:12 <bsmntbombdood> and the teacher in question isn't interested in it specifically, i just have to tell them what i'm working on
22:21:10 <SimonRC> "Brainfunk"?
22:21:19 <SimonRC> "BrainF"?
22:21:23 <ehird`> BrainMakeLove
22:21:28 <SimonRC> lol
22:21:46 <lament> brainSodomize
22:21:49 <bsmntbombdood> fuck != sex in brainfuck
22:22:15 <SimonRC> BrainScrew?
22:22:15 <lament> by the way, it's "euphemism"
22:22:19 <SimonRC> works both ways
22:22:20 <ehird`> BrainEuphemism
22:22:40 <bsmntbombdood> BrainMessup
22:22:57 <bsmntbombdood> brainconfuser
22:24:06 <ehird`> Brainal
22:24:13 <ehird`> That would be a good name for a BF derivative.
22:29:37 <bsmntbombdood> gar >_<
22:29:54 <bsmntbombdood> this torrent has 7991 seeders, but is downloading at 6kB/s
22:30:01 <ehird`> they are very slow seeders
22:30:02 <ehird`> ;)
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22:33:09 <lament> 7991? it can only be porn
22:33:18 <bsmntbombdood> it's not!
22:33:25 <ehird`> it's a "linux distro"
22:33:30 <ehird`> (Aka, porn)
22:33:43 <lament> linux distro? "Lesbian"?
22:33:58 <bsmntbombdood> it's Prison.Break.S03E03.HDTV.XViD-Caph.avi
22:34:08 <ehird`> (Aka, porn)
22:34:38 <bsmntbombdood> no
22:34:44 <bsmntbombdood> i do have lots of porn seeding though
22:36:17 <bsmntbombdood> http://pizdaus.com/pics/MC3KUw7uCDtL.jpg
22:38:06 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: is that NSFW
22:38:11 <bsmntbombdood> no
22:38:20 * SimonRC cautiously clicks
22:38:51 <SimonRC> where is that?
22:38:56 <bsmntbombdood> dunno
22:39:12 <SimonRC> where di you get it from/
22:39:18 <bsmntbombdood> http://pizdaus.com/index.php?sort=best
22:40:47 <ehird`> thats a shitload of macs
22:43:25 <ehird`> Or is it a metric fuckton?
22:43:51 <bsmntbombdood> a metric kilokiloton
22:45:28 * SimonRC prefers the imperial fuckton
22:46:21 <bsmntbombdood> a metric fuckton is larger than an imperial fuckton
22:47:34 <SimonRC> no, a common misconception
22:47:37 <oerjan> so now you can convert a pound to either newtons or fucktons, depending?
22:51:54 <ehird`> everything you need to know about the metric fuckton: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1398601
22:57:39 <bsmntbombdood> a metric fuckton is 2200 fucks
22:57:47 <bsmntbombdood> an imperial fuckton is 2000 fucks
22:59:00 <ehird`> i think you've got that back assward
22:59:03 <oerjan> ah
22:59:54 <bsmntbombdood> no
23:00:07 <SimonRC> I could nick that for an Uncyclopedia article.
23:00:55 <bsmntbombdood> or it could be 1000/907, depending on how you look at it
23:02:31 <bsmntbombdood> as long as the raito is 1.10231131
23:07:50 <oerjan> i see you are using a properly shitty calculator for this
23:09:38 <lament> >>> 1111111111 ** 2 - 1111111110 * 1111111112
23:09:40 <lament> 1L
23:09:49 <lament> i like nice calculators :)
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23:32:21 <ehird`> >>> 1
23:32:31 <ehird`> hm
23:32:36 <ehird`> oh
23:32:42 <ehird`> you copied and pasted python interactive prompt stuff
23:33:21 <oerjan> only because he is EVIL
23:34:23 <bsmntbombdood> oerjan: approximations
23:35:09 <GregorR> I made an assembly language (and assembler) for MISC.
23:35:22 <GregorR> It's fun writing assembly with only arguments, no operators :P
23:36:11 <GregorR> A taste of misc-as: 0xFF 0xFF $1 0 # Subtract 1 from the value at address 0xFF
23:36:27 <GregorR> Erm, that's /relative/ address 0xFF
23:36:29 <GregorR> For absolute:
23:36:35 <GregorR> %0xFF %0xFF $1 0
23:36:35 <bsmntbombdood> i wrote a subleq machine and assembler
23:38:06 <GregorR> What did your assembly language look like?
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23:39:00 <bsmntbombdood> a list of adresses basically
23:40:16 <bsmntbombdood> with labels and a few constants
23:40:51 <bsmntbombdood> http://pastebin.ca/723643
23:41:05 <bsmntbombdood> that's cat
23:46:37 <ehird`> Craziest reddit headline ever: Australian actresses are plagiarizing my quantum mechanics lecture to sell printers
23:54:27 <oerjan> Well, don't do that.
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23:55:54 <GregorR> So, I bought an old tablet PC plus "whatever spare parts I have lying around." Apparently "whatever spare parts I have lying around" amounts to FIVE SPARE BATTERIES.
23:56:25 <GregorR> I didn't desperately need six batteries for this :P
23:59:10 <bsmntbombdood> heh
2007-10-03
00:07:59 <SimonRC> zzzzzzz
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00:24:39 <bsmntbombdood> bah, flag desacration is illegal in colorado
00:34:08 <GregorR> Feels weird to remove a hard disk from an old computer, plug it into my computer and then boot it in QEmu :P
00:34:17 <GregorR> Seems sort of insulting to the real computer when it runs faster in QEmu X-D
00:41:50 <RodgerTheGreat> BrainGentlyCaress
00:48:17 * pikhq pisses on a flag, taking advantage of the federal law superseding state law in that instance
00:49:08 <bsmntbombdood> hooray constitution
00:49:20 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: We can recompile it... we have the technology. Stronger, faster, better than before.
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00:51:55 * pikhq starts playing "harder better faster stronger"
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00:52:42 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to Around The World / Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger by Daft Punk from Coachella 2006
00:53:08 <pikhq> :)
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00:53:36 <RodgerTheGreat> 'tis the music that great programming is made of
00:54:06 * bsmntbombdood is listening to The Gathering / Infected Mushroom
00:56:43 <lament> that's music great acid trips are made of
00:58:01 <RodgerTheGreat> haha. I have witnessed forum brilliance.
00:59:00 <RodgerTheGreat> a guy named "With Your Ass" posted a thread asking suggestions for removing shards of a broken beer bottle from his backpack entitled "How do I get tiny glass shards out of my sack?"
00:59:39 <bsmntbombdood> putting it in the dryer probably
01:00:00 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. That might actually work.
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01:01:20 <RodgerTheGreat> most people are suggesting duct-tape
01:02:04 <bsmntbombdood> that won't get the stuff embedded in the fabric
01:02:58 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah- I think a dryer is the best idea I could think of
01:03:03 <bsmntbombdood> it would really suck to get tiny glass shards in your sack though
01:03:06 <RodgerTheGreat> do you have experience with this sort of thing?
01:03:11 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, no kidding
01:03:46 <bsmntbombdood> i bet it would get infected
01:04:01 <RodgerTheGreat> worse than glass shards: fiberglass
01:04:07 <RodgerTheGreat> imagine the rash. :S
01:04:19 <bsmntbombdood> a la http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Scrotal_infection (nsfw)
01:04:34 <RodgerTheGreat> eeew
01:04:40 <RodgerTheGreat> but yes
01:08:06 <RodgerTheGreat> out of morbid curiosity, did you just type "infected scrotum" into google for that thing?
01:08:48 <bsmntbombdood> no, i've read that article before
01:09:16 <bsmntbombdood> although that is the first result
01:09:18 <bsmntbombdood> OH MY GOD
01:09:30 <bsmntbombdood> look at the images
01:09:52 <RodgerTheGreat> I don' wanna. D:>
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01:13:06 <bsmntbombdood> "A Case Of Multiple Sebaceous Cysts Over Scrotum In A 35 Years Old Male"
01:14:22 <bsmntbombdood> that is just about the grossest thing ever
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03:44:22 * bsmntbombdood is listening to Pink Floyd - The Final Cut
03:53:55 * pikhq approves
03:55:55 <bsmntbombdood> i'm not sure i like
03:55:57 <bsmntbombdood> too uniform
04:00:47 <pikhq> Not listened to that album, so my approval is of the band. . .
04:00:52 <bsmntbombdood> ok
04:01:05 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to Emotion 98.6 by Mylo from Destroy Rock & Roll
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06:41:38 <GregorR> I made macros to make functions/calling easier in MISC :)
06:42:38 <GregorR> (cpp macros that is)
06:52:00 <GregorR> Now, I just need a backend for GCC ...
06:52:02 <GregorR> :P
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07:54:06 <GregorR> I have macros for MUL/DIV/MOD now :)
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10:26:05 <ais523> I'm annoyed at regular expressions not having enough computational class to do everything I want them to do
10:26:33 <ais523> for instance, several times I'd have found it useful to have a regexp that matches a string with matched parentheses
10:26:52 <ais523> so I'm working on a Turing-complete enhanced-regexp language
10:28:37 <Arrogant> Perl 6 rules look pretty cool.
10:29:01 <ais523> I haven't seen them
10:29:03 <ehird`> ais523: why
10:29:06 <ehird`> perl 5 regexps are TC
10:29:16 <ais523> only by embedding Perl into them, I think
10:29:39 <ehird`> really?
10:29:41 <ehird`> i dont think so
10:29:49 <ehird`> i seem to remember with some bizzare hacks you can make it TC
10:29:54 <ehird`> e.g., that regexp that can solve sudoku
10:29:57 <ehird`> uses no perl
10:30:33 <ais523> in my language, I can write (\($+\)|'^\(\)'|) and get an expression that matches only strings with matched parens
10:30:37 <ais523> how is that done in Perl?
10:30:55 <ais523> (the $+ means 'match a copy of the containing group')
10:30:58 <ehird`> i do not actually know, sorry#
10:31:03 <ehird`> but i have heard a few times that they are TC
10:31:40 <ehird`> http://perl.abigail.be/Talks/Sudoku/HTML
10:32:28 <ais523> also, I have things like (a*)b*:-c*:- to solve the famous n as, n bs, n cs problem, which I think is considerably shorter than the corresponding BF program
10:33:48 <ais523> by the way, a non-TC program can solve Sudoku
10:33:56 <ais523> (in theory, you could do it with a lookup table)
10:35:08 <ehird`> well
10:35:10 <ehird`> take a look at the examples
10:35:13 <ehird`> i sure don't grok them,
10:35:19 <ehird`> but i don't think they're using a lookup table
10:35:36 <ais523> no, they're just placing a huge number of constraints on the problem
10:35:45 <ehird`> hm
10:35:49 <ehird`> so it isn't tc
10:36:11 <ais523> traditional regular expressions can be compiled into a finite-state machine
10:36:19 <ehird`> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=KCL&q=perl+5+regular+expressions+turing+complete&btnG=Search&meta= Perhaps you will find something here.
10:36:20 <ehird`> and
10:36:25 <ehird`> perl 5 regexps are not traditional
10:36:32 <ais523> I don't think Perl regular expressions are any better in that respect, but I don't know
10:45:06 * ais523 is reading through the Google results, and so far has found a lot of people disagreeing with each other
11:00:31 <SimonRC> mathematical regexs can be compiled into FSMs -- I studied it at Uni
11:02:18 <ais523> I'm reading through Perl5 and Perl6 regex syntax
11:02:38 <ais523> Perl5 allows ?{} (embed Perl code), which obviously makes it TC, but that's cheating
11:03:29 <ais523> it also allows ??{} (defered evaluation), which can be used to execute arbitrary Perl or which can be used to create a context-free grammar
11:03:35 <ais523> I'm not sure if using that is cheating
11:04:07 <ais523> Perl6's regexes are like Perl5s, but re-written to be more verbose and 'readable' to beginning programmers
11:04:31 <ais523> if multiple 'rules' are given, it again creates a context-free grammar
11:04:54 <ais523> but I'm not sure if a context-free grammar can match (a*)b*:-c*:-
11:07:24 <ais523> it's interesting to see the parallel evolution of my regex language and Perl6's, though; for instance, they both contain constructs equivalent to Prolog's 'cut' and 'fail'
11:08:35 <ais523> ...and we both changed . to also match newlines
11:28:22 <ehird`> back
11:28:49 <ehird`> i might make a regexp-like language
11:29:04 <ehird`> i've always wanted for ?[\\$]%(.=&)/ to match something
11:29:12 <ehird`> s/for// (How ironic)
11:29:56 <ais523> what you wrote is a syntax error in my language, unfortunately (partly because I deliberately don't use square brackets for anything)
11:31:29 <ehird`> i've always wanted regexps that can match entire languages
11:31:30 <ehird`> ;)
11:31:46 <ehird`> a kind-of-regexp parser in one kind-of-regexp would be awesome!
11:31:49 <ais523> I was designing my regexp language partly for that purpose
11:32:02 <ehird`> why don't any regexp impls have nested regexp groups?
11:32:17 <ais523> what exactly do you mean by that
11:32:25 <ais523> s/$/\?/
11:32:29 <ehird`> (a) -> [['a']]
11:32:39 <ehird`> (a(b)) -> [['a', ['b']]]
11:32:43 <ehird`> see?
11:32:56 <ais523> what do the square brackets represent?
11:33:01 <ehird`> you could generate an entire parse tree, with some additional commands (like "don't nest", "pop out" etc)
11:33:02 <ehird`> and
11:33:04 <ehird`> arrays in the language
11:33:18 <ehird`> from a match_str(pattern, str)
11:33:29 <ais523> I think my language might be able to do that, but I can't remember the syntax offhand
11:33:32 <ehird`> so instead of (a) when given "a" returning ['a']
11:33:37 <ehird`> it'd return [['a']]
11:33:49 <ehird`> so, a match is a list of text and submatches
11:33:51 <ehird`> the root list is too
11:33:57 <ehird`> so, it's a parse tree, really
11:34:18 <ais523> it wouldn't do it by default, but you could write something like (a=\Ba\E)
11:34:21 <ehird`> if there is a way to say "append this to the result set, even if it is not in the string:", then you can parse an /entire language/ with one regexp0thing :D
11:34:28 <ais523> where \B and \E change into [ and ] in the output
11:34:32 <ehird`> no no no
11:34:42 <ehird`> pretend we are in a programming language
11:34:44 <ehird`> NOT the regexp language
11:34:48 <ehird`> [x,y,z] is an array
11:35:00 <ehird`> [[x, y, z], [a, b, c]] is an array with two arrays as elements
11:35:08 <ehird`> matching (a) on the string a would produce [['a']]
11:35:28 <ehird`> think of the result of matching as something like [$1, $2, $3...] in perl
11:35:31 <ais523> that's it: my regexp language outputs a set of nested arrays as its answer when \B and \E are used
11:35:44 <ehird`> except, $1, $2, etc. are ALSO match results
11:35:54 <ehird`> so just matching (a) on the strng 'a' gives [['a']]
11:36:01 <ais523> the = causes its LHS to be 'replaced' with its RHS in a vague sense
11:36:07 <ehird`> (a(b))c((d)e) on 'abcde' produces:
11:36:21 <ehird`> [['a', ['b']], [['d'], 'e']]
11:36:44 <ais523> so your output just mirrors the group syntax of the input?
11:37:48 <ehird`> kiiind of
11:37:55 <ehird`> except
11:38:11 <ehird`> there would be a modifier of some sort for () which says 'put this N levels upward in the tree' or 'pop out N levels'
11:38:16 <ehird`> or 'don't nest this match'
11:38:38 <ehird`> (a(b))c((d)e) in regular regexps in 'abcde' would be ['a', 'b', 'd', 'e'] which i do not think is nearly as useful for simple matching OR parsing
11:38:55 <ais523> something like you suggest can be done reasonably simply with Perl5 regexps
11:39:06 <ais523> you put an extra group around each section between groups, like this:
11:39:26 <ais523> ((a)((b)))(c)(((d))(e))
11:39:42 <ais523> and then you simply have a template to fill $ns into, like this:
11:39:53 <ehird`> sure, i know
11:39:58 <ehird`> but its not as convenient, imo
11:40:07 <ehird`> you could do everything your regexps do with perl's regexp eval feature
11:40:12 <ehird`> that doesn't mean it's useful to do it like that
11:40:34 <ais523> [[$2, [$4]], [[$8], $9]] (I'm going to finish writing this comment anyway, even though it's long after it's relevant)
11:40:52 <ais523> the point is you could write a program to automatically compile regexps like you suggest into the existing form
11:42:06 <ehird`> sure, but add the other features of my regexp stuff i have in my head
11:42:11 <ehird`> which you can't compile short of eval
11:43:37 <ais523> well, I like my language because I can do (\(($1)\)=\B=1\E|'^\(\)'|)
11:43:58 <ehird`> what does that do?
11:44:39 <ais523> if applied to the string (a(b))c((d)e) it would return [['a',['b']],'c',[['d'],'e']]
11:44:58 <ais523> in other words, it's parsing the brackets in the input string into the array notation of the language that you're using
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11:45:54 <ehird`> i'm pretty sure i could do similar
11:45:56 <ehird`> the nesting is not required
11:46:07 <ehird`> you can make a () pair not nest inline
11:46:10 <ais523> to be exact, you'd have to put =^ at the end if you were using this as part of a larger regexp, but the system adds that automatically if it's not given anywhere
11:46:13 <ehird`> and you can manually add nesting levels with it
11:46:18 <ehird`> and add/remove elements to them
11:46:26 <ehird`> so, mine can do what yours does too
11:46:41 <ais523> what would a regexp for doing that look like in your language?
11:48:10 <ehird`> i have no idea. i haven't written down my language yet.
11:48:13 <ehird`> i just have ideas for it.
11:48:17 <ehird`> that above would definately be possible though
11:49:24 * ais523 is still reading the Perl6 regexp syntax
11:51:53 <ais523> ehird`: it seems that Perl6 does hierarchical capturing through capture brackets like you were suggesting above
11:52:12 <ais523> (although it returns a nested hierarchy of Match objects rather than just arrays)
11:52:15 <ehird`> FUCK! I'm starting to think like Larry Wall.
11:52:23 <ehird`> arrays was kinda symbolic
11:52:31 <ehird`> the notation was a way to represent match data
11:53:40 <ais523> so given the regex ( a ( b ) ) c ( ( d ) e ) you would get an output in which $1[0] was "d" (because the matches are 0-based)
11:54:51 <ehird`> cool.
11:55:02 <ehird`> can you do nammed submatches?
11:55:18 <ais523> yes, in both Perl6 and my language
11:55:25 <ehird`> so, $r['g']['g2'] or similar
11:55:54 <ais523> I don't think the named submatches are hierarchical, but I admit I'm a bit confused trying to read the document in question
11:56:02 <ais523> http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S05.html
11:58:22 <ais523> so here's a problem: suppose you have an Unlambda expression, and you want to convert it to another expression in which the arguments to every ` have been swapped
11:58:29 <ais523> considering just s and k for simplicity,
11:59:19 <ais523> I would write this as (`($1)($1)=`=2=1|s|k)=^ (the =^ is optional if this is the whole regex)
11:59:33 <ais523> I wonder if it's possible to do anything like that in other regex languages?
11:59:37 <ehird`> bakc
11:59:39 <ehird`> *back
11:59:52 <ehird`> and hm
12:00:07 <ehird`> intuitively i think yes, but the regexp would be repetitive i think
12:00:10 <ehird`> also
12:00:19 <ehird`> another feature my regexps will have, is nested regexps
12:00:27 <ehird`> you can run other regexps on other strings, get their matches, etc
12:00:36 <ehird`> you can run a string as the regexp, even!
12:00:50 <ais523> I was planning something similar, but hadn't worked out all the syntax
12:00:53 <ehird`> strings of course include groups, replacements on groups, etc
12:01:21 <ais523> you could run a regexp on just what was matched by a group, even using that regexp to /change/ what that group matched from the point of view of the rest of the expression
12:01:39 <ais523> or you could take what was matched by a group as the regexp itself, or both (or neither)
12:03:52 <ehird`> exactly
12:03:53 <ehird`> same here
12:04:03 <ehird`> the possibilities are endless ;)
12:04:41 <ais523> 'what was matched by a group' is the closest my language has to variables, as it can be changed retroactively (without modifying the original string; there are other ways to do that)
12:07:39 <Tritonio> WD is GTP
12:07:47 <Tritonio> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
12:07:58 <SimonRC> ??
12:08:24 <Tritonio> problems with my hard drive
12:08:30 <Tritonio> the external one
12:08:35 <Tritonio> serious problems
12:09:15 <ais523> a good quote I just came across: 'we think the popular term "regex" is in the process of becoming a technical term with a precise meaning of: "something you do pattern matching with, kinda like a regular expression"'
12:09:22 <Tritonio> the funny thing is that before some days a friend of me found bad sectors in his disk which is the almost the same model with mine.
12:10:01 <Tritonio> is there a tool for surface scan in Linux?
12:11:56 <Tritonio> ?
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12:30:36 <ehird`> ais523: :)
12:30:45 <ehird`> my language will let you assign arbitary things to groups
12:30:59 <ais523> same here
12:31:01 <ehird`> so, combine the 'arbitary' and 'don't add to match results' modifiers,
12:31:02 <ehird`> and voila
12:31:02 <ehird`> variables
12:31:18 <ehird`> or, just use 'arbitary' to insert elements into various places in the match tree
12:31:22 <ais523> I assume there's some way to generate an infinite number of them
12:31:23 <ehird`> -> easy parsetree generation
12:31:36 <ais523> mine can, but only in a push-down way
12:32:28 <ehird`> turing complete parse-tree generation
12:32:30 <ehird`> bliss =)
12:32:38 <ehird`> no more fscking yacc or workalikes!
12:33:09 <ais523> it seems you, me and Perl6 all have the same aim here
12:33:33 <RodgerTheGreat> turing-complete parse tree generation? wow.
12:34:04 <ehird`> yes, RodgerTheGreat.
12:34:08 <ehird`> with regular-expression-alikes.
12:34:14 <RodgerTheGreat> cool
12:34:21 <ehird`> have i mown your blind sufficiently yet?
12:34:34 <ais523> one traditional problem in parsing a language: the construct (a, b):=(c, d) which assigns c to a and d to b exists in some languages
12:34:41 <ais523> it's very hard to write those semantics in BNF
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12:34:50 <molchuvka> why
12:35:14 <ais523> because there have to be the same number of variables on each side, and the first variable on the LHS maps to the first variable on the RHS
12:35:15 <molchuvka> in coco/r, it's straightforward to write this in EBNF
12:35:33 <molchuvka> ll(k) compiler compiler
12:35:39 <ehird`> coco/r is horrid though, so shush ;)
12:35:54 <ais523> the traditional solution was to accept any number on each side, and then check there were the same number on each side when translating the parse tree
12:35:56 <ehird`> ais523: good old a*nb*nc*n problem
12:36:09 <ais523> yes, just in a different form
12:36:24 <molchuvka> ehird`: please describe the word 'horrid', i dont have dictionary at hand
12:36:39 <ehird`> molchuvka: the fuel that powers the steam engine that creates nightmares
12:36:44 <ais523> the a^nb^n problem can be solved by a push-down, with an expression like (a$+b|) in my notation
12:36:51 <ais523> but it matches the last a with the first b
12:37:54 <ehird`> i wonder...
12:38:04 <ehird`> since these re-alikes are turing complete
12:38:18 <ehird`> and with mine at least, you can parse a full language into a parse-tree with only one single re-alikes
12:38:23 <ehird`> what expression parses perl 5?
12:38:52 <ais523> Perl6 apparently has a built-in expression for parsing perl6; it's a constant that's just defined by the language
12:39:04 <ais523> an expression to parse perl5 would take a while to write, I expect
12:39:28 <ais523> but it would be useful because I've never seen a really good Perl syntax highlighter (that can handle regexps and the weird quoting syntax)
12:40:07 <ehird`> damn, just think how complex it would be
12:40:19 <ehird`> you'd be utilizing turing complete hacks all over the place to be 100% correct
12:40:53 <ehird`> for convenience i think my regexp language will include a special quine "variable" (group) that is just the string of the expression it is contained it
12:40:55 <ehird`> *in
12:41:02 <ehird`> this, incidentally, makes a quine very trivial :P
12:41:15 <ais523> well, the null string's a quine in mine
12:41:23 <ehird`> heh
12:41:30 * ais523 tries to thing of a quine in their language that's at least one byte long
12:41:30 <ehird`> i can just imagine the docs for my quine
12:41:42 <ehird`> "This expression matches nothing into itself."
12:41:50 <ehird`> actually, anything
12:42:00 <ehird`> "This expression matches anything into itself."
12:42:41 <ehird`> you know, my regexp language will probably be really hard to parse (even in itself) and a mammoth task to implement
12:42:55 <ais523> I'm having serious problems trying to implement mine
12:43:09 <ais523> I'm writing the docs first and although they're unfinished, they're already several pages long
12:43:38 <ehird`> I do not think I will bother implementing mine, from the features I have in mind it'd be a project on the level of full-scale open source projects
12:43:57 <ehird`> Maybe if someone offers some help after I write a spec. :-)
12:44:21 <RodgerTheGreat> perhaps you should focus on a simpler proof-of-concept
12:44:37 <ehird`> no, i want my amazingerific expressions in full ;)
12:45:06 <RodgerTheGreat> heh. Or design an esolang that requires this feature in order to achieve turing-completeness.
12:45:29 <ehird`> that's simple
12:45:45 <ehird`> just make a program input and a regular expression
12:46:00 <ehird`> since they can perform turing complete calculations, voila
12:46:15 <ehird`> the match tree would be the output of the program
12:46:49 <ehird`> in fact you don't even need an input string
12:46:52 <ehird`> (it could just be empty)
12:47:01 <ehird`> since you can assign arbitary values to groups, and run regexps on groups
12:47:02 <ais523> mine can generate output off no input at all, because it has features for inserting text into the input string
12:47:03 <ehird`> etc
12:47:22 <ehird`> ais523: mine can do that but only because you can explicitly modify and generate matches in the match tree
12:47:49 <ais523> in mine, you can write (Hello\, world\!)^ to add Hello, world! to the input string
12:48:04 <ais523> where the ^ 'negates' the preceding group
12:48:13 <ais523> it has many more interesting uses as well
12:48:58 <ehird`> ais523: can yours be used to parse an entire language in one expression?
12:49:03 <ehird`> within reason that is, not using tons of TC-hackery
12:49:10 <ais523> yes, pretty easily
12:49:13 <ehird`> because from what i have in my head mine could do that very easily and naturally
12:49:18 <ehird`> as in, not a hack a tall
12:49:21 <ehird`> just natural common usage
12:49:24 <ehird`> which i think is cool
12:49:33 <ehird`> PARSER constant in a language = XD
12:49:34 <ais523> I have an = command that's not actually necessary, but makes such expressions more readable
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12:50:13 <ehird`> i think mine will have "and" and "or" constructs
12:50:32 <ais523> it depends on what you mean by 'and'
12:50:45 <ehird`> i.e. "if this (X) matches, then this (Y) must too, otherwise there is no match"
12:50:56 <ais523> if you're just checking variables, you write the checks one after the other (possibly with a cut) and you get a short-circuit match
12:51:07 <ehird`> or, "if (X) does not match, but (Y) does, there is a match"
12:51:13 <ais523> Perl6 has a 'two or more matches that must start and end at the same place construct'
12:51:15 <ehird`> and by x and y i mean two groups of some sort
12:51:31 <ais523> as for or, that's just the (a|b) construct that's been in every regex language ever AFAIK
12:52:00 <ehird`> sure
12:52:05 <ehird`> but this could handle more complex constructs
12:52:13 <ehird`> and so can or
12:52:22 <ehird`> so it makes sense to ditch (a|b) and get the new syntax
12:52:27 <ehird`> actually, the syntax may be the same
12:52:28 <ehird`> who knows?
12:52:31 <ehird`> but it'll behave different
12:52:35 <ais523> the syntax is the same in my language
12:52:45 <ais523> and it behaves the same way, for esoteric values of 'same'
12:53:23 <ais523> so (a|b) means 'match a, if that fails or there's a fail somewhere later try matching b instead'
12:53:39 <ehird`> &, i think, is a bit more interesting than |
12:53:42 <ais523> if you don't want it to backtrack into the (a|b) group you can write (a|b)!- instead
12:53:51 <ehird`> anyway
12:53:52 <ais523> you're right, & is definitely more interesting
12:53:56 <ehird`> with mine you can have different modifiers on a and b
12:53:58 <ehird`> etc
12:53:59 <ehird`> :)
12:54:21 <ais523> obviously that's possible, you just put the modifiers inside the groups in question
12:54:31 <ehird`> i have no idea what the implications are, but or-ing an arbitary, in-output group with a non-arbitary, out-of-output group sounds... interesting
12:54:39 <ehird`> but, let's think about &
12:54:46 <ehird`> what are the implications? i get the feeling it could be very useful
12:54:50 <ehird`> but i don't quite see which
12:54:54 <ehird`> well, let's boil it down
12:55:21 <ehird`> A&B = if A, then B. else, A.
12:55:39 <ehird`> now - what are the implications of that in a regexp language? (Where the "if A" means "if A matches")
12:55:42 <ais523> ehird`: for the or you can just write (a|b^), for instance, which either removes an a from the input string or failing that adds a b
12:56:45 <ais523> for the and you've just defined, that's ab? (or (ab?)? depending on whether you want the not-a situation to succeed or fail)
12:56:59 <ais523> and you can always just cut away any choicepoints that are left behind that you don't want
12:58:16 <ehird`> i'm pretty sure it isn't ab?
12:58:19 <ehird`> since
12:58:25 <ehird`> if a was true, and b was
12:58:29 <ehird`> only b would be "returned"
12:58:30 <ehird`> not ab
12:58:59 <ais523> my regexes don't 'return' things, they just modify the input string and/or group-match memory
12:59:31 <ehird`> "return" means "add to the match tree"
13:00:09 <ais523> then you want (a=x)(b=y)? in my language where x and y are the things to add to the output corresponding to a and b
13:00:09 <ehird`> but, you know what i mean
13:00:18 <ehird`> i'll demonstrate
13:00:36 <ehird`> x -> y -> z, meaning "expr x with input y matches tree z":
13:00:50 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]]
13:01:03 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "b" -> nope
13:01:14 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "a" -> nope
13:01:25 <ehird`> i think that's right
13:01:42 <ais523> does nope refer to a fail, here?
13:02:02 <ais523> in my language, because returning is explicit, you just don't return anything from a: (a=)(b=y)
13:02:37 <ehird`> i think it means a fail
13:02:39 <ehird`> ;)
13:03:11 <ais523> all languages should have some backtracking construct IMO
13:03:29 <ehird`> how about:
13:03:29 <ais523> because it makes it much easier to implement backtracking languages, and doesn't affect programs that don't need to use it
13:03:36 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]]
13:03:36 <ais523> likewise for multithreading
13:03:38 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]]
13:03:48 <ais523> you just wrote the same thing twice
13:03:49 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "a" -> [["b"]]
13:03:50 <ehird`> I know
13:03:58 <ehird`> (a&b) -> "b" -> [["a"]]
13:04:09 <ehird`> because that is "directly" if A then B else A
13:04:28 <ais523> (a=b|b=a)?
13:04:53 <ais523> incidentally, on single characters, you can write that 'ab=ba' in my language as shorthand
13:06:01 <ehird`> i dont know
13:06:14 <ehird`> i'm just trying to think of a useful way to implement an and construct
13:06:55 <ais523> I think ab is probably the simplest sort of and construct; after all, both a and b have to match for ab to match
13:07:13 <ais523> that sort of and has been around for ages, and nearly all regexes use it
13:07:20 <ais523> sort of like and in Prolog
13:07:27 <ais523> it's the 'and then' operator
13:11:01 <ehird`> no
13:11:16 <ehird`> in your programming language of choice, does a & b return [a, b] if both a and b are true?
13:11:19 <ehird`> no -- it returns b
13:11:29 <ehird`> so, ab is not a&b
13:11:51 <ais523> in many languages, and just returns true or false, which was more the idea I was getting at
13:12:03 <ais523> or in backtracking languages, succeed/fail
13:12:25 <ais523> the 'and then' is clearly a separate operator from perl's and
13:12:39 <ehird`> "many languages" suck ;)
13:12:54 <ehird`> ok, let's take a lowest-common-denominator language
13:13:06 <ehird`> one that follows most patterns intuitively, but isn't very interesting : python
13:13:22 <ehird`> >>> 1 and 2
13:13:22 <ehird`> 2
13:13:30 <ehird`> in just about every language i have used (that i didn't hate) that happened
13:13:59 <ais523> I agree that all the best languages seem to implement it like that, apart from C-based languages (some of which are also good)
13:14:03 <ehird`> so --
13:14:03 <ehird`> <ehird`> (a&b) -> "ab" -> [["b"]]
13:14:03 <ehird`> <ehird`> (a&b) -> "b" -> nope
13:14:03 <ehird`> <ehird`> (a&b) -> "a" -> nope
13:14:09 <ehird`> seems to be a reasonable construct
13:14:24 <ais523> but in my language, nothing returns anything unless a return value is guaranteed
13:14:25 <ehird`> but the question is, is it useful like that? what is a reasonable usecase?
13:14:33 <ehird`> or is there another way to implement it that makes it more useful?
13:14:42 <SimonRC> actually, in C, 1 && 2 == 2
13:14:49 <ais523> no, 1 && 2 == 1
13:14:54 <ais523> && always returns 0 or 1
13:14:59 <SimonRC> ah, yes, silly me
13:15:17 <SimonRC> lisp: (AND 1 2) ==> 2
13:15:18 <ais523> you can write 1?2:0 for a Perl-style and (where the 0 is a constant)
13:15:43 <ais523> BASIC: 1 AND 2 ==> 0
13:15:49 <ais523> (because it always does it bitwise)
13:15:52 <ehird`> basic as an example? :P
13:16:09 <ehird`> anyway by 1 and 2 i didn't neccessarily mean 1 and 2 because of bitwise-ness
13:16:24 <ehird`> i just meant two things that have the truth-value of "true" but are not "true" themselves
13:17:00 <ais523> I only picked BASIC because it did something different from the other languages
13:17:26 <ais523> and I was demonstrating that for values other than true or false, what it did didn't just jump to set values nor take the second value
13:18:07 <ehird`> so i guess we're all stuck on trying to work out a use for my (a&b) semantics? :)
13:18:36 <ais523> imagine a BASIC interpreter written in regexes
13:18:58 <ehird`> i don't want to
13:18:59 <ehird`> however
13:19:00 <ais523> PRINT 6 is equivalent to (PRINT&&6) with an ehird`-style AND
13:19:06 <ehird`> lisp interpreter written with regexes?
13:19:09 <ehird`> trivial
13:19:14 <ehird`> and no, ais523, it is not
13:19:26 <ehird`> (a&b) with "ab" as input >produces [["b"]]<
13:19:44 <ehird`> whereas (ab) with "ab" as input produces [["a", "b"]]
13:19:56 <ais523> I assumed you were piping the output to a console that was flattening
13:20:03 <ais523> you wouldn't want to print the PRINT as well as the 6
13:20:12 <ais523> so it's just the 6 that's being printed
13:20:42 <ehird`> oh i get it
13:20:55 <ehird`> you are saying that PRINT 6 (basic code) is (PRINT&&6) in mine?
13:21:31 <ehird`> right?
13:21:33 <ais523> I'm saying that the ehird`-regexp (PRINT&&.*) will output just what's after the PRINT if fed PRINT 6 as input
13:21:40 <ehird`> yes
13:21:55 <ehird`> (PRINT&&a) -> "PRINTa" -> [["a"]]
13:21:55 <ais523> in my language, that's (PRINT.*=.*)
13:22:10 <ais523> because it matches corresponding .s and *s together
13:22:10 <ehird`> (it's &, actually, right now :P)
13:22:21 <ehird`> and that is interesting but it seems like it could be ambigious
13:22:41 <ais523> what does 'that' refer to in your preceding statement?
13:23:04 <ehird`> <ais523> in my language, that's (PRINT.*=.*)
13:23:25 <ehird`> (PRINT.*.*=.*)
13:23:28 <ehird`> which does the RHS .* refer to
13:23:39 <ais523> that's an error because the two sides don't have the same structure
13:23:53 <ehird`> ah
13:24:06 <ehird`> so, does & seem useful to you at all with my semantics?
13:24:20 <ais523> you could disable one for matching purposes as (PRINT(+.*).*=.*) if you liked, because a group starting with + isn't counted
13:24:22 <ehird`> i am not sure if it could be given better semantics, or if these are good, or if it's even useful either way
13:24:59 <ais523> I think & might be useful, but it should be codable within the language, rather than being a feature of it
13:25:05 <ais523> sort-of like a standard library function
13:26:08 <ehird`> now now this is regexps
13:26:13 <ehird`> let's not get overboard
13:26:13 <ehird`> :)
13:26:24 <ehird`> but try as i might i just can not think of a usecase for &
13:26:29 <ehird`> no matter how intuitively useful it sounds
13:27:04 <ais523> 'and then' is probably a more useful operator, boring as it is
13:27:30 <ehird`> there has to be some obscure & usecase! :<
13:27:39 * ais523 has to go now in order to have a chance of getting lunch before being busy, but will read the end of the conversation in the logs
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13:28:49 <ehird`> who wants to continue this discussion? :P
13:29:30 * oklopol says "penis" and everyone laughs
13:30:09 <oklopol> i can't think of a usecase, and unfortunately i don't have time for that either :<
13:30:20 <oklopol> but ehird`: check out ihope's parser language
13:30:23 <oklopol> that's pretty neat
13:32:26 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: have you mown your blind sufficiently yet?
14:00:56 <RodgerTheGreat> something like that
14:01:34 <RodgerTheGreat> observe the first two pages of a story I started working on last night:
14:01:35 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1191376302-Cosm1.png
14:01:40 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1191386100-Cosm2.png
14:09:02 <ehird`> NOT END ->
14:09:07 <ehird`> very zen ending marker
14:10:12 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm still writing
14:10:53 <ehird`> ;)
14:14:16 <RodgerTheGreat> do you like the general concept, though? Are you interested in where things are going?
14:15:31 <SimonRC> looks good so far
14:15:34 <ehird`> i think the next frame will involve lots of spam popup-demon-things
14:15:40 <SimonRC> now do 998 more, and you have a webcomic
14:15:44 <ehird`> "Congratulations! You win a free iPod!"
14:15:45 <RodgerTheGreat> woo
14:16:03 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: lol- there's a line similar to that
14:22:07 <ehird`> also
14:22:14 <ehird`> why does that popup use decimal
14:22:15 <ehird`> :P
14:26:59 <RodgerTheGreat> there is an explanation for that
14:28:09 <ehird`> it better be good
14:28:21 <ehird`> and not just "Oh, well you have 10 fingers, so I talk using decimal so it's easier for you"
14:28:34 <ehird`> that's on the same level as "Oh, well you use English, so I do the same so it's easier for you"
14:28:39 <ehird`> (that better have an explanation too :P)
14:29:04 <RodgerTheGreat> more like "there's a reason you have 10 fingers!"
14:29:49 <RodgerTheGreat> the english thing only applies to the popup, and it speaks english for a perfectly valid reason. Not everything does or will.
14:30:49 <ehird`> i am very intrigued then
14:30:55 <SimonRC> I wish popups left me alone for 22 years if I am busy
14:31:05 <ehird`> you should put up a site for it, dumped images aren't fun to navigate :P
14:31:48 <RodgerTheGreat> maybe
14:32:02 <ehird`> ... possibly fix the blur on the left side of the page too :P
14:32:19 * SimonRC wonders what NetBasic is
14:32:36 <ehird`> http://support.novell.com/techcenter/articles/dnd19961103.html this?
14:32:44 <RodgerTheGreat> that's because my scanner isn't technically large enough for my bristol board
14:32:51 <ehird`> a very ugly basic dialect it seems
14:33:06 <RodgerTheGreat> wtf? NetBASIC already exists? Well, fuck me
14:33:17 <ehird`> huh?
14:33:27 <RodgerTheGreat> my version is much prettier, if less useful.
14:33:42 * ehird` is confused
14:35:32 <SimonRC> this: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1190938723-downsteam.png
14:35:33 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm writing a BASIC implementation called NetBASIC
14:35:39 <SimonRC> ok
14:35:40 <RodgerTheGreat> exactly
14:36:13 <ehird`> out of curiosity
14:36:14 <ehird`> why?
14:36:28 <RodgerTheGreat> it's part of a game
14:39:13 <SimonRC> what kind of game?
14:40:41 <RodgerTheGreat> it's kindof a coding/puzzle game. You write programs to traverse a simulated network, retrieve various files, and get around obstacles, in some cases with code length restrictions or time limits
14:41:07 <RodgerTheGreat> some puzzles may even involve "distributed computing" challenges
14:41:30 <SimonRC> RodgerTheGreat: ah, hacking-like
14:41:36 <RodgerTheGreat> more or less
14:41:48 <ehird`> couldn't you make it more obsucre?
14:41:53 <ehird`> like, an APL/Lisp alike ;)
14:41:55 <ehird`> (Both!)
14:41:59 * SimonRC tries to remembner the name of the popular "virtual hacking" game
14:41:59 <RodgerTheGreat> it's a little abstract, and not intended to be particularly accurate, but it's pretty fun
14:42:11 <RodgerTheGreat> arbitrary code execution, for example, is pretty trivial
14:42:23 <RodgerTheGreat> SimonRC: Uplink
14:42:30 <SimonRC> RodgerTheGreat: yes
14:42:31 <RodgerTheGreat> by introversion software.
14:43:21 <ehird`> uplink is fun
14:43:34 <ehird`> it's silly
14:43:34 <ehird`> but fun
14:43:38 <ehird`> i like introversion software
14:43:41 <RodgerTheGreat> Uplink was in no small way an inspiration to this game. I love the concept and execution, but I felt a hacking game with more to do with coding would be even more fun
14:43:56 <RodgerTheGreat> introversion makes some great stuff- have either of you tried DefCon?
14:44:58 <ehird`> darwinia was popular a while back
14:45:25 <RodgerTheGreat> darwinia was breathtakingly beautiful, but I think the gameplay was a little slow-paced
14:45:59 <RodgerTheGreat> plus, they ditched the gesture-driven task manager for a regular menu in the patch. :(
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14:51:17 <RodgerTheGreat> introversion's games are interesting in that you can see they were designed as a bunch of interesting demos that eventually merged together into a game. They also tend to appear very simple and contain a tremendous amount of depth upon further inspection. The commandline on hacked computers in Uplink is an example.
14:51:55 <ehird`> yeah the command-line actually suprised me when i first saw it
14:52:03 <ehird`> i didn't expect that kind of control
14:53:12 <RodgerTheGreat> I was just like "Uh... this can't possibly be that realistic... [cds around and looks at filesystem.] huh. What happens if I delete the OS and tell it to restart? [connection lost.]" and then the machine was dead for the rest of the game!
14:53:34 <RodgerTheGreat> that was kinda my "holy shit this game is awesome" moment right there
14:54:16 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl
14:55:29 <ehird`> it was crazy taht you could remove the logfiles via the command-line
14:55:35 <ehird`> you didn't actually need the log-remover frontend
15:11:09 <SimonRC> I think I am turning into a troll: "{18, 213, 235, 238, 247, 254} <-- allegory about belief systems"
15:24:09 <Sgeo> SimonRC, hm?
15:24:53 <SimonRC> nvm
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16:05:01 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: yeah, the frontend was just more thorough- as I remember, deleting things via commandline still left log entries that the files had been deleted
16:07:48 <ehird`> yeah
16:07:50 <ehird`> so
16:07:54 <ehird`> remove the log directory
16:07:55 <ehird`> :)
16:08:00 <RodgerTheGreat> hahaha
16:08:05 <RodgerTheGreat> that works? I never tried it
16:08:25 <RodgerTheGreat> will it recreate the dir next time it logs something, or does it stay dead?
16:19:52 <ehird`> i dunno
16:19:54 <ehird`> i think it just dies
16:19:57 <ehird`> =)
16:20:45 <RodgerTheGreat> ah, uplink computers and their fantastic operating system
16:20:53 <ehird`> dies as in doesn't log anything
16:20:57 <ehird`> not dies as in PFFFTKRRRNK
16:21:03 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, I got what you mean
16:21:11 <RodgerTheGreat> which is frickin' awesome
16:21:34 <RodgerTheGreat> if only it wasn't so damn hard to get a commandline for more than a handful of seconds most of the time
16:21:40 <SimonRC> yeah
16:22:43 <RodgerTheGreat> I've routed through just about every computer on InterNIC, and those bastards can still track me down in no time flat! The best ones to route through are government systems or banks, I've found.
16:22:46 <ehird`> i never actually got on to the storyline, hah
16:22:57 <ehird`> it just never came
16:23:14 <RodgerTheGreat> me neither. I have way too much fun just playing around, not entirely unlike how I play the Grand Theft Auto series
16:23:27 <RodgerTheGreat> neat trick for becoming rich in Uplink:
16:23:31 <ehird`> it's weird, though, i did everything i had to do,
16:23:35 <ehird`> but the email from ARC never came
16:23:48 <ehird`> though if i were to play the storyline
16:23:55 <ehird`> i would so fscking release that virus all over the net :D
16:24:04 <ehird`> you get to see it destroy every connected computer through red dots ;)
16:24:57 <RodgerTheGreat> - crack a bank. Steal shit-tons of money and put it in your Uplink accounts. The banks will immediately begin a slow trace that will ruin your shit when it gets to you. Route through a bunch of targets, do a legit series of transactions between several accounts to get your money laundered, and then store it in an account you remember. Proceed to cover your tracks like hell.
16:25:12 <RodgerTheGreat> then, the original bank will catch you, and you'll lose your uplink account
16:25:33 <ehird`> heh
16:25:37 <RodgerTheGreat> create a new account, connect to the bank you stashed your money in, and make a withdrawl
16:25:48 <ehird`> wow, it carries across acounts?
16:25:49 <ehird`> that IS neat
16:25:54 <RodgerTheGreat> bing-bam-kaching, buy all your tools and a better gateway and you're set
16:26:11 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, some stuff remains persistent
16:26:55 <RodgerTheGreat> Uplink is the *only* game where I've ever seen anything close to that
16:27:32 <RodgerTheGreat> you can also sometimes store your hacking utilities on machines you crack, but it needs to be something low security like InterNIC or the Uplink Test Server.
16:27:41 <RodgerTheGreat> backups are good when software costs money
16:28:19 <RodgerTheGreat> I often stash code on the test server if I don't have enough storage for all my utilities, and then I can retrieve them later
16:28:25 <ehird`> its amazing how open Introversion are
16:28:34 <ehird`> the dev CD for uplink, the fact that they support linux, windows and os x
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16:28:50 <RodgerTheGreat> well, Ambrosia handles all the OSX ports
16:29:35 -!- Tritonio has joined.
16:29:42 <ehird`> yes -- but on the disk, there is ALL THREE
16:29:53 <ehird`> one purchase, you have the version for each OS, right there
16:30:00 <ehird`> no other game company that i know does that
16:30:32 <RodgerTheGreat> Blizzard does 2/3, but yeah. Introversion kicks so much ass.
16:30:50 * Sgeo doesn't like buying stuff
16:30:50 <RodgerTheGreat> They make games so utterly unlike anything else... it's really inspiring
16:31:18 <SimonRC> I should direct my cash in their direction
16:31:20 <RodgerTheGreat> Support independent game developers.
16:31:38 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm thinking about buying Defcon- the demo was amazing
16:32:15 <ehird`> Sgeo: this is why people complain about capitalism... lazy people.
16:33:06 <ehird`> i'm not going to say "stop" to anyone who pirates games or anything... but if it's an indie developer, you really owe it to them
16:33:10 <RodgerTheGreat> Introversion makes wonderful things, and their games are inexpensive. They deserve money.
16:34:14 <RodgerTheGreat> I know a bunch of assholes that'll buy a legit copy of Halo and turn around and pirate a copy of Uplink. It makes me sick. Bungie/MS don't feel it when their shitty games are pirated, but independent developers get the screw
16:35:58 <ehird`> its really quite a difficult subject...
16:36:19 <ehird`> there is a car cloning machine which you can simply point at a car from any range, and you immediately get your own. the cloner is free.
16:36:24 <ehird`> yet, car companies --big and small-- still sell cars.
16:36:28 <RodgerTheGreat> I don't pirate software myself at all.
16:36:34 <ehird`> is it "stealing" to use the cloner device on a car?
16:37:04 <RodgerTheGreat> Stealing from the company that invested time and money to design the car, perhaps
16:37:31 <RodgerTheGreat> but the car analogy is really terrible for software discussions
16:38:30 <ehird`> replace car with anything you want
16:38:58 <RodgerTheGreat> I think the main reason most people pirate software is the bastard self-important sense of entitlement everyone seems to have these days. "I pirate music because I can't afford it". THEN DON'T LISTEN TO MUSIC, YOU BASTARD- IT'S A LUXURY, NOT A NECESSITY! YOU DO NOT DESERVE FREE MUSIC!
16:39:38 * ehird` pirates music because he is an asshole, but agrees in principle ;)
16:39:39 <RodgerTheGreat> nobody *deserves* free anything on the internet, it's just what they've become accustomed to.
16:40:17 <RodgerTheGreat> god forbid anyone try to profit from their own creative energies and labor if they so choose
16:41:28 <ehird`> i do make a point to buy albums i like when i get the chance
16:41:43 <RodgerTheGreat> It pisses me off tremendously when people steal music, games and software programs, justifying their actions by saying they can't afford to buy them.
16:41:46 <ehird`> if I pirate an album, really like it, then if I see it for a reasonable price I will buy it
16:42:53 <RodgerTheGreat> I pay for my music via iTunes, and if I don't feel like paying money for music, I turn to one of the many sources of genuinely free sources of music on the internet, like creative commons stuff and the modarchive
16:43:02 <RodgerTheGreat> it helps if you like chiptunes
16:43:12 <ehird`> I do not buy iTunes music because I do not enjoy DRM.
16:43:36 <ehird`> I use the iTunes player, though, because 1. it's good 2. it can play gaplessly 3. it's the only decent one for OS X
16:43:57 * GregorR wonders if anybody cares at all about his awesome MISC environment :P
16:44:22 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: For an additional fee, you can buy DRM-free music on iTunes.
16:44:32 <ehird`> ... Only for some albums.
16:44:41 <ehird`> Specifically, EMI albums.
16:44:50 <RodgerTheGreat> it's only for some record labels, but more often than not I can buy what I want that way
16:44:57 <GregorR> "Recorded in 1902, this album is now out of copyright!"
16:45:21 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: enjoy your pre-wax-cylenders
16:45:34 <RodgerTheGreat> *cylinder
16:45:40 <GregorR> Pff, that's not an accurate assessment, they had wax cylinders <1900
16:45:45 <RodgerTheGreat> ouch, that misspelling brought me pain
16:45:48 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: I do not listen to many mainstream bands, the (3?) labels participating are all major labels.
16:49:17 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: Also, it could be a piano roll :)
16:49:34 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: alright, fair enough- didn't think of that
16:53:07 -!- bsmntbom2dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
16:54:31 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl
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16:59:06 -!- jix has joined.
16:59:07 <bsmntbombdood> i pirate music without justifying my actions
16:59:56 <ehird`> ditto!
16:59:57 <ehird`> :)
17:03:53 <GregorR> I justify my action ... my justification is "fuck you I'm taking this"
17:04:04 <ehird`> we're a bunch of commies! ;)
17:04:05 <ehird`> or not.
17:08:16 * GregorR actually has no illegal music :P
17:08:45 <puzzlet_> like, music where outlaws sing about killing people?
17:08:57 <GregorR> That's perfectly legal music.
17:09:01 <GregorR> It's called rap.
17:09:04 <ehird`> no, music whose tonal structure embeds the HD key
17:10:25 * GregorR wonders if anybody cares at all about his awesome MISC environment :P
17:10:31 * GregorR enjoys repeating himself.
17:12:22 <ehird`> GregorR: do tel, then
17:12:35 <ehird`> also... who's on windows? http://www.gamersquarter.com/tennisfortwo/ tennis for two simulator with internet play!
17:12:43 <ehird`> i'll put up a server if anyone wants
17:12:53 <bsmntbombdood> no one's on windows
17:13:17 <GregorR> I made an ASM language for MISC, and implemented basic math primitives with C preproc defines, so now writing MISC code is aaaaaaaaalmost like any other RISC.
17:13:24 <GregorR> The advantage? None! But it's amusing :P
17:13:44 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: i'm not on here for long :P
17:29:19 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/miscdocs/
17:39:09 <Sgeo> GregorR, being amusing is an advantage >.>
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17:43:42 <GregorR> Well, another advantage is that it's not totally unrealistic to imagine a GCC backend.
17:44:04 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:44:19 <GregorR> Unlike BF, which is not only registerless but exceedingly register-emulation-unfriendly :P
17:44:54 <GregorR> In MISC, I just reserved 0xFFFExxxx and called a few of them registers.
17:47:08 <SimonRC> what is the instruction?
17:47:30 <GregorR> Subtract and branch if negative.
17:47:38 <GregorR> See http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/MISC
17:47:48 <SimonRC> and that needs 4 arguments how?
17:48:38 <GregorR> Arithmetic destination, source 1, source 2, branch target
17:48:54 <GregorR> It's dest = src1 - src2, not a = a - b
17:49:22 <GregorR> Admittedly, MISC is pretty lavish for an OISC ;)
17:52:13 <SimonRC> the best one I have seen is the one with "reverse subtract and skip if negative", I think
17:52:32 <SimonRC> you have to do jumps by modifying the IP
17:53:12 <GregorR> The IP isn't memory-mapped in MISC.
17:53:27 <GregorR> You do conditional jumps by writing to the branch target of the next instruction.
17:53:41 <SimonRC> hey! subskin is classified as a tarpit!
17:53:59 <SimonRC> GregorR: the pipeline-engineers are going to love that
17:54:27 <GregorR> I like MISC independent of esotericity - in all seriousness, this could be implemented with a processor smaller than the head of a pin, and is fully TC (within the limits of bounded memory)
17:55:57 * GregorR imagines MISC nanobots.
17:57:20 <SimonRC> GregorR: do you want to get Dugg?
17:57:38 <GregorR> Not desperately :P
17:57:56 <SimonRC> Ha ChooseMyHat been dugg yet?
17:58:02 <GregorR> O_O
17:58:08 <GregorR> Maybe THAT'S why I got 75 votes yesterday!
18:03:27 <ehird`> no, nobody has
18:03:29 <ehird`> just fyi
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18:08:49 <GregorR> Then why DID I get 75 votes yesterday X-D
18:09:10 <SimonRC> it is being passed around, maybe
18:09:26 <GregorR> But it was just for that /one day/.
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18:26:46 <ehird`> someone used a bot
18:31:37 <GregorR> It logs IPs.
18:31:47 <GregorR> Somebody used a botnet, maybe.
18:31:53 <GregorR> But it seems like a waste of a botnet ;P
18:32:06 <GregorR> It's a DUOS - Distributed Use of Service
18:35:06 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: digg it
18:35:08 <bsmntbombdood> you must
18:35:31 <GregorR> I refuse to digg.
18:35:35 <GregorR> It's against my principles.
18:35:41 <bsmntbombdood> no
18:35:43 <bsmntbombdood> you must
18:35:55 <GregorR> Mainly, the principle of using people who aren't me to filter digg for me :P
18:37:24 <GregorR> Why don't /you/ digg it :P
18:38:01 <ehird`> reddit it!
18:38:04 <ehird`> redd-it!
18:38:21 <GregorR> I refuse to reddit.
18:38:26 <GregorR> It's against my principles.
18:38:36 <GregorR> Mainly, the principle of using people who aren't me to filter reddit for me :P
18:38:43 <GregorR> Why don't /you/ reddit it :P
18:39:27 <RodgerTheGreat> I have returned
18:39:33 <ehird`> i might just reddit it
18:39:35 <ehird`> OH, ONE PROBLEM
18:39:44 <ehird`> i have 1 karma thus ensuring nobody will vote it up
18:39:44 <ehird`> :P
18:40:22 <Sgeo> karma?
18:41:34 <GregorR> Reddit has an infinitely obscure algorithm for devaluating the submissions of people who submit too much.
18:41:37 <GregorR> Two is too much.
18:41:57 <GregorR> Correct me if I'm wrong, that's entirely heresay :P
18:42:05 <GregorR> *hearsay >_>
18:42:16 <GregorR> Feel free to correct my spelling of hearsay if it's wrong as well :P
18:42:18 <RodgerTheGreat> infinitely obscure...
18:42:24 * SimonRC goes to dinner
18:42:27 <RodgerTheGreat> I think I like this phrase
18:42:48 <ehird`> you are wrong GregorR
18:42:51 <ehird`> karma is good
18:42:56 <ehird`> it goes up when more people vote you up
18:43:01 <ehird`> it is, of course, highly teasured
18:43:13 <GregorR> I didn't say that positive karma = too many submissions
18:43:21 <ehird`> the joke is that people will instinctively downvote anyone with a low karma, which is of course false
18:46:14 <GregorR> If somebody with negative karma downvotes you, does that increase your karma? :P
18:46:35 <ehird`> :P
18:51:49 <GregorR> That would be interesting. There would be huge amounts of churn as karmas flew around zero, and then random people would find themselves with high enough karma that they could really start building it up :P
18:51:58 <GregorR> I'll call it the "ridiculously terrible karma system" :P
18:52:29 <RodgerTheGreat> positive karma + modup = karma boost. negative karma + moddown = smaller karma boost?
18:54:44 <ehird`> that's kinda stupid though
18:55:02 * ehird` has toyed with a hypothetical link site in the past
18:55:30 <ehird`> it's kind of like a blend between the selectivity and summaries of slashdot (but shorter and to-the-point), the efficiency of reddit, and some parts from digg
18:55:32 <ehird`> it is very nice
18:56:18 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
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19:13:08 <ehird`> hmm
19:13:10 <ehird`> :P
19:13:45 <GregorR> I don't suppose anybody has actual /comments/ on my MISC syntax?
19:14:59 <ehird`> nope!
19:15:35 <GregorR> Is that because it's extremely perfect?
19:18:18 <oklopol> GregorR: i'm just assuming it's perfect
19:18:39 <oklopol> wanna link it once again? ;)
19:19:04 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/miscdocs/
19:19:19 <GregorR> On the one hand, it's legit to assume anything I wrote is perfect, but on the other hand I could use comments.
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19:25:23 <oklopol> seems nice, although i don't have time to have a close look
19:25:32 <oklopol> can i have an interpreter for that or smth?
19:25:43 <bsmntbom1dood> there's a girl sitting next to me <_<
19:25:56 <oklopol> although i didn't play much with that urinal thing once you said you were sure it's pretty useless
19:26:01 <GregorR> oklopol: Depends on whether you A) have a D+Tango compiler or B) will take a binary.
19:26:07 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: touch her and tell us how it felt
19:26:18 <GregorR> oklopol: The Order of Urinals is not, as it turns out, Turing Complete :(
19:26:19 <oklopol> GregorR: binary, sure
19:26:24 <oklopol> yep :<
19:26:29 <GregorR> oklopol: Platform?
19:26:29 <oklopol> you actually proved it?
19:26:32 <bsmntbom1dood> ha
19:26:34 <bsmntbom1dood> no.
19:26:36 <oklopol> win/ubuntu
19:26:52 <GregorR> oklopol: No, I din't write a proof per se, I just dug myself into a corner.
19:26:59 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: touched, but won't tell? :<
19:27:19 <oklopol> GregorR: not sure what that means :|
19:27:27 <oklopol> i think i made a proof of some sort myself
19:27:30 <bsmntbom1dood> i tend to not touch random people
19:28:05 <bsmntbom1dood> oh em gee, she asked me for some paper
19:28:25 <GregorR> bsmntbom1dood: BE MORE PATHETIC
19:28:30 <oklopol> xD
19:28:41 <ehird`> you're on the internet, we make jokes about patheticness
19:28:43 <ehird`> get with the program
19:28:44 <ehird`> ;)
19:28:44 <oklopol> i usually stare at girls
19:28:57 <oklopol> if i get the chance
19:28:59 <bsmntbom1dood> GregorR: i don't think that's possible
19:30:00 <GregorR> oklopol: http://www.codu.org/misc/ <-- includes binaries for GNU/Linux
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19:32:19 <oklopol> thanks, i'll try and find a use for that :P
19:32:19 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
19:32:43 <GregorR> Well you asked for it X-P
19:33:04 <oklopol> i wasn't being sarcastic in any way :)
19:33:07 <bsmntbombdood> now a guy came
19:33:22 <oklopol> omg, there's no one here with me
19:33:23 <bsmntbombdood> he's sitting across the room
19:33:29 <bsmntbombdood> omg another girl
19:33:30 <oklopol> my room is empty :<
19:33:36 <oklopol> where are you?
19:34:04 <bsmntbombdood> in a roo
19:34:06 <bsmntbombdood> m
19:34:14 <bsmntbombdood> aaw, now a teacher came in
19:34:32 <oklopol> female?
19:34:35 <bsmntbombdood> yes
19:34:46 <GregorR> Hahahahah, you're even more pathetic than I thought X-D
19:34:46 <oklopol> what size?
19:34:50 <bsmntbombdood> what size?
19:34:54 <oklopol> boobies
19:35:04 <bsmntbombdood> dunno
19:35:08 <oklopol> oh :(
19:35:10 <GregorR> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay, escaping this conversation. *fwoom*
19:35:13 <oklopol> :)
19:37:09 <bsmntbombdood> now there's 5 people
19:37:19 <oklopol> no one here still
19:37:44 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: what's the purpose of that room?
19:38:00 <oklopol> are you listening to the teacher or does there just happen to be a teacher in the room?
19:38:04 <GregorR> I'm sitting in a cubicle. I'm alone in my cubicle. It's extremely exciting.
19:38:13 <GregorR> Probably a computer lab.
19:38:35 <oklopol> i'm sitting in my armchair, eating chicken
19:38:52 <bsmntbombdood> i think they call it a "group study" room
19:38:56 <bsmntbombdood> it's for the program i'm in
19:39:01 <GregorR> (oklopol named his dog "chicken")
19:39:10 <bsmntbombdood> and the teacher isn't teaching
19:39:18 <oklopol> yeah, indeed that's funnier if you know that
19:39:25 <oklopol> chicken is my dog
19:39:46 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: so you're studying now?
19:39:50 <bsmntbombdood> no
19:39:58 <bsmntbombdood> i probably should be though
19:39:59 <ehird`> i am now going to get a chicken
19:40:01 <ehird`> and name it dog
19:40:09 <GregorR> And eat it.
19:40:13 <bsmntbombdood> i have 7 chickens
19:40:13 <ehird`> yes
19:40:16 <ehird`> and claim to be eating dog
19:40:40 <GregorR> I'm going to get a chicken and name it "Filipino child"
19:41:15 <bsmntbombdood> i'm going to get a gregor and name it "george"
19:41:54 <ehird`> i'm going to get a PC and name it "mac"
19:42:18 <bsmntbombdood> i'm going to get a penis and not give it a name
19:42:22 <bsmntbombdood> oh wait, i did
19:43:17 <oklopol> i love it how every joke must be exhausted until the original subject (though there wasn't one this time) gets forgotten
19:43:58 <oklopol> well, actually not sure if that's ever happened, but you'd think
19:44:05 <ehird`> 1st Law of IRCodynamics: Every conversation approaches maximum penis-reference.
19:44:16 <ehird`> Err, 2nd Law
19:44:26 <GregorR> I don't penis that actually happens.
19:44:29 <GregorR> I penis that's just a penis.
19:44:32 <oklopol> interesting turn! my mom was here for a few seconds
19:44:57 <ehird`> Let's test these laws.
19:45:07 <ehird`> I like chicken! Which chicken, the species or the dog? You decide!
19:45:11 <GregorR> Penis are penis other penis?
19:45:15 <ehird`> Penis.
19:45:23 <GregorR> Penis penis penis?
19:46:13 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: your mom was with your penis?
19:46:22 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: Penis.
19:46:35 <bsmntbombdood> hawt
19:47:25 <oklopol> hehe, epic
19:50:34 <bsmntbombdood> b0r3d
19:52:34 <bsmntbombdood> b0n3d
19:53:34 <GregorR> Heh, I just realized that my MISC #define will go into an infinite loop if you divide by zero :P
19:53:41 <GregorR> Erm, #define DIV that is.
19:53:52 <bsmntbombdood> zomg, boobies
19:54:35 <GregorR> Just thrust your face into 'em and see what she does.
19:56:06 <bsmntbombdood> i don't think taht will end well
19:56:34 <GregorR> DOIIIIIIIIIIIIT
19:56:36 <GregorR> DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
19:56:47 * GregorR leaves for lunch while you get expelled.
19:59:22 * bsmntbombdood is drinking soe water
20:09:35 <ehird`> soe water?
20:09:35 <ehird`> :P
20:09:48 <bsmntbombdood> some water
20:13:33 <ehird`> obviously
20:13:36 <ehird`> i was poking fun
20:14:05 <bsmntbombdood> I WAS POKING POON
20:14:07 <bsmntbombdood> oops
20:14:44 <oklopol> i should make a game maker program with an actually *good* scripting language
20:15:06 <oklopol> i kinda sucks when the language is something like actionscript that doesn't allow *anything* to made easily
20:15:10 <oklopol> *it kinda
20:17:02 <oklopol> to be honest i haven't really checked out other than flash, game maker and games factory, and flash isn't really made especially for games
20:26:36 <ehird`> pygame!
20:26:38 <ehird`> although, it's not the same
20:26:41 <ehird`> but game making programs suck
20:26:49 <oklopol> yeah, that was my point
20:27:12 <oklopol> you could actually make a language with game programming in mind
20:27:16 <oklopol> 2d that is.
20:27:32 <oklopol> i don't care for 3d
20:27:35 <oklopol> :P
20:27:40 <oklopol> http://dagobah.biz/flash/linegame.swf
20:28:10 <oklopol> that should be like 10 lines max
20:31:04 <oklopol> (the movements of the worm i mean)
20:31:15 <oklopol> might be a bit hard to get the levels in 10 lines :P
20:31:38 <ehird`> that does not look 10 lines ;P
20:31:41 <ehird`> however
20:31:45 <ehird`> i am interested in game-oriented stuff
20:31:51 <ehird`> maybe i should kind of pack this into an experimental language
20:31:51 <oklopol> the movement doesn't?
20:32:03 <ehird`> my turing complete regex-alikes which i discussed with oerjan earlier
20:32:11 <ehird`> graphics-oriented stuff like game stuff
20:32:12 <oklopol> with oerjan?
20:32:14 <oklopol> hmm
20:32:17 <ehird`> yeah, earlier today
20:32:23 <ehird`> today in the GMT sense, its 20:40 here
20:33:35 <oklopol> unless you mean ais, i don't have the logs i guess :<
20:34:06 <ehird`> both
20:34:08 <oklopol> you had a long talk with ais, but you also did with oerjan?
20:34:10 <oklopol> oh
20:34:11 <oklopol> hmm...
20:34:12 <ehird`> it started ais, then oerjan cut in
20:34:39 <ehird`> look at the ircbrowse.com logs
20:34:40 <ehird`> in topic
20:35:08 <ehird`> also, that line game is impossible
20:35:09 <ehird`> :p
20:35:31 <oklopol> i'm doing the hardest level with keyboard
20:35:45 <oklopol> i get to the second rotating thingie
20:35:56 <ehird`> i did 20 seconds on "a"
20:35:57 <ehird`> with keyboard
20:36:04 <ehird`> mouse is impossible
20:36:50 <ehird`> b is impossible
20:36:59 <oklopol> okay
20:37:04 <oklopol> i can't find it in the logs either.
20:37:33 <oklopol> also, i do have a lot over 24h of logs showing here, so...
20:37:55 <oklopol> anyways, i guess that's beside the point
20:37:59 <ehird`> search for regexps
20:38:05 <ehird`> and then scroll up
20:38:10 <ehird`> it is really quite interesting
20:38:10 <oklopol> i just read everything oerjan has said
20:38:25 <ehird`> i discussed my own ideas too
20:39:13 <oklopol> i've read the logs, of course
20:39:24 <oklopol> but really, show me oerjan, this is getting scary :P
20:40:33 <ehird`> search regexp
20:41:21 <oklopol> but... i've read your and ais523's conversation :<
20:41:29 <oklopol> i really see no oerjan
20:41:54 <oklopol> also, i did search for "rexexp", twice, and scrolled the whole conversation.
20:42:01 <GregorR> WTF?
20:42:03 <GregorR> Line game?
20:42:17 <oklopol> yeah, pretty great, ain't it
20:42:56 <ehird`> on the subject of flash games
20:42:57 <ehird`> http://dagobah.biz/flash/Cursor_Invisible.swf
20:44:50 <oklopol> 146
20:45:07 <oklopol> god my heart is pounding
20:45:10 <ehird`> i always get like one pixel off after 76
20:45:14 <oklopol> heh
20:45:26 <GregorR> ehird`: That game is extremely easy on a tablet PC :P
20:45:35 <oklopol> i have a touchpad
20:45:37 <ehird`> XD
20:45:40 <ehird`> you bet GregorR
20:46:18 <oklopol> hmm... why is it easy?
20:46:54 <oklopol> (GregorR) WTF?
20:46:57 <oklopol> (GregorR) Line game?
20:47:00 <oklopol> what did you mean? :D
20:47:12 <GregorR> I meant "WTF? Line game?"
20:47:21 <oklopol> ...because?
20:47:28 <oklopol> wtf @ what? :|
20:47:43 <ehird`> rrrrthats5rs.com <-- most deliberately confusing domain name ever
20:47:44 <oklopol> hmm... is there something weird @ line games?
20:47:56 <GregorR> <ehird`> also, that line game is impossible
20:48:11 <ehird`> tnhe line game oklopol linked to
20:48:17 <oklopol> http://dagobah.biz/flash/linegame.swf
20:48:26 <GregorR> Oh. Heh, missed the URL 8-X
20:49:45 <GregorR> Wow, that line game is extremely difficult.
20:50:03 <ehird`> aaaand another: http://dagobah.biz/flash/Particles.swf
20:50:04 <ehird`> and no it isn't
20:50:06 <ehird`> hint: use keyboard
20:50:08 <ehird`> and go slow
20:50:12 <ehird`> do not hold up all the time
20:50:21 <oklopol> never slow! always to the MAX
20:50:21 <GregorR> I thought there was a time limit?
20:50:26 <oklopol> nope
20:50:41 <oklopol> but you can beat your time of course
20:55:11 <oklopol> how the fuck do ppl get under 9 @ a...
20:55:51 <ehird`> http://dagobah.biz/flash/Smash2_final.swf crazy breakout game
20:57:32 <ehird`> (hint: you can go up and down, it's kind of like tennis)
21:04:34 <ehird`> http://dagobah.biz/flash/jeu_chiant.swf Is it just me or is this impossibl;e
21:09:34 * oklopol TRIES
21:10:57 <oklopol> how many seconds do you get?
21:11:23 <ehird`> like
21:11:24 <ehird`> 7
21:11:30 <oklopol> oh
21:11:34 <oklopol> pretty easy till 30
21:12:27 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/evilpong/ < man this game rocks
21:14:08 <oklopol> i don't have a big enough resolution
21:14:10 <oklopol> :<
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21:21:40 <oklopol> GregorR: that's pretty amazing
21:22:35 <oklopol> yeah, 2 hours of flash games again, that was point-free :)
21:22:39 <oklopol> gotta eat something
21:22:43 <oklopol> ...and play some more i guess
21:22:51 <GregorR> oklopol: EVIL Pong! isn't a flash game, it's all JS :)
21:22:56 <oklopol> same thing
21:22:57 <oklopol> :)
21:23:00 <oklopol> i mean, game.
21:23:01 <GregorR> :P
21:23:13 <oklopol> also, *script, anyway
21:24:09 <oklopol> i'm still wondering where the conversation with oerjan was...
21:31:51 <ehird`> back
21:32:53 <ehird`> GregorR: out of curiosity
21:33:07 <ehird`> why the overblown home page for a really simple JS game that will have taken about 15 minutes to make? :-)
21:35:06 <GregorR> Because it's an AWESOME simple JS game that would have taken about 15 minutes to make.
21:35:18 <oklopol> :DSDSDD
21:36:39 <ehird`> its not very hard :P
21:36:41 <ehird`> or challenging
21:36:50 <oklopol> how many points did you get?
21:36:54 <GregorR> It is when you go past the first five points.
21:37:04 <oklopol> i just got 12 :<
21:52:56 <ehird`> http://dagobah.biz/flash/Keep_an_Idiot_Busy.swf God damnit! I can't stop!
21:53:16 <ehird`> WOW
21:53:18 <ehird`> I clicked one!
21:53:53 <bsmntbombdood> what
21:54:20 <ehird`> what
21:54:54 <ehird`> when you click one it turns to 2 more times
21:54:56 <ehird`> then 1 more time
21:54:57 <ehird`> then i dont know
21:55:59 <ehird`> it disappears
21:56:01 <ehird`> now for the 2 others
21:56:17 <GregorR> Seems like another game that would be great on a tablet PC X-P
21:56:40 <ehird`> :P
21:56:41 <ehird`> try it
21:56:44 <ehird`> tell me whats at the end
21:56:56 <GregorR> <-- at work
21:57:25 <ehird`> 2 to go!
21:58:05 <ehird`> 1 to go
21:58:40 <ehird`> LAME
21:58:47 <ehird`> it just tells you that you just have too much time on your hands
22:00:12 <GregorR> Hahahhaha
22:00:21 <GregorR> Be proud :P
22:01:44 <ehird`> so who thinks this "experimental language" is a good idea
22:02:07 <ehird`> right now, it'd have as unique things: that amazing, warped TC regexp language AND many graphical features useful for games (re: oklopol)
22:02:09 <ehird`> not just for games of course
22:02:15 <ehird`> but plenty of constructs that make them easy
22:02:33 <GregorR> Experimental as in not designed to be esoteric, presumably?
22:05:36 <ehird`> esoterica will follow naturally when you have a regexp language as insane and simple graphics+input controls built right in#
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22:29:22 <ehird`> =)
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2007-10-04
00:12:59 <bsmntbombdood> hey oklopol i found a working mic
00:17:50 <oklopol> omg!
00:18:00 <oklopol> audio orgy time
00:18:07 <oklopol> i have a test in 6 hours.
00:18:25 <oklopol> asdasdasd
00:19:39 <bsmntbombdood> what was i supposed to record?
00:20:35 <lament> an orgy?
00:21:36 <oklopol> i guess it was that finnish clip i did for you
00:21:40 <bsmntbombdood> lament sounds like the orgy kinda person
00:21:47 <oklopol> lament: i'm fairly sure that's the term
00:22:07 <oklopol> we should have an esoteric orgy sometime
00:22:16 <oklopol> all #esoteric!
00:22:47 <lament> i don't want to participate in any orgy with male to female ratio higher than 50%
00:22:50 <lament> make that 30%
00:22:52 <bsmntbombdood> that'd be cool
00:23:06 <bsmntbombdood> laaaame
00:25:07 <oklopol> okay, lament's out, i'm assuming everyone else is with?
00:25:34 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: if you have the clip, do record it
00:25:41 <bsmntbombdood> what clip?
00:25:57 <oklopol> the one with me saying something
00:26:13 <bsmntbombdood> what did you say?
00:26:50 <oklopol> hmm
00:26:58 <oklopol> i said something about a chainsaw
00:27:04 <bsmntbombdood> aah yes
00:27:18 <bsmntbombdood> fuck me gently with a chainsaw. i like the way the blades feel on my genitals
00:29:17 <oklopol> yeah
00:29:27 <bsmntbombdood> abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/foo.wav
00:29:31 <oklopol> thazzit, motto for the orgy
00:30:09 <oklopol> well yeah, but say that in finnish :D
00:30:16 * oerjan thinks he's out too at this point :D
00:30:41 <bsmntbombdood> oerjan: i promise i'll keep the chainsaw away from your genitals
00:32:47 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: in finnish, please!
00:32:55 <bsmntbombdood> but i don't speak finnish
00:34:00 <oklopol> ...and that's why i wanna hear you pronounce it of course
00:34:07 <oklopol> though might be too hard to even try :P
00:34:12 <oklopol> have no idea
00:34:16 <bsmntbombdood> so write it
00:34:19 <oklopol> ah
00:34:22 <bsmntbombdood> and i'll try
00:34:28 <oklopol> i thought you had the clip of me saying it
00:34:29 <oerjan> yksi kaksi kolme koskenkorva perkele
00:34:35 <oklopol> :D
00:34:48 <bsmntbombdood> what's that mean?
00:35:28 <oklopol> one two three spirit fuck
00:35:33 <oklopol> okay
00:35:41 <oklopol> that was one lame-ass translation
00:35:58 <oerjan> fuck? i thought it was satan. a swearword anyhow.
00:36:21 <oklopol> yeah
00:36:33 <oklopol> well, it can mean satan, but satan isn't a curseword...
00:36:53 <oerjan> it is in norwegian.
00:36:55 <bsmntbombdood> should i say that?
00:37:09 <oklopol> actually, it was a finnish god (err... or a synonym for thor perhaps), but it was later thought to mean "satan", since it was a pagan god
00:37:44 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: sure, but you can't pronounce it right from that, since finnish has a different (better) writing system
00:38:52 <oerjan> i didn't think the finnish gods were identified with the norse ones, but i wouldn't really know
00:39:03 <bsmntbombdood> abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/foo2.wav
00:40:32 <oklopol> well, all i know is perkele was a pagan god of some sorts, the god of thunder i guess (like thor, no?)
00:40:38 <oklopol> i don't know anything about history
00:41:00 <bsmntbombdood> how bad did i pronounce it?
00:41:36 <oklopol> wait, my parents are here for some reason, and one of them is using the bathroom, so i'm trying to be silent :DSDSD
00:41:56 <oklopol> so my mom doesn't get mad!
00:42:23 <oklopol> i guess she wouldn't
00:42:26 <oklopol> i'll listen
00:42:57 <oerjan> no earphones?
00:43:04 <oklopol> heh, you pronounced it as if it was english, as i assumed you would :P
00:43:25 <bsmntbombdood> considering english is the only language i know...
00:43:27 <oklopol> "pörkeli" is what you pronounced "perkele" as
00:43:43 <oklopol> yeah, that's why i thought an example might be better :P
00:43:58 <oklopol> and i made that clip for just that purpose
00:44:20 <oklopol> the numbers were close
00:44:30 <oklopol> and koskenkorva, i guess
00:44:55 <oklopol> i can make the "correct" one and send it? :)
00:45:16 <oklopol> i can't judge you by that since you can have absolutely no idea how to pronounce that
00:45:47 <lament> perkele!!!
00:47:44 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/r/perkele.wav
00:48:08 <bsmntbombdood> perrrrrrkelay
00:48:20 <oklopol> yeah, different r :P
00:48:50 <oklopol> also, k, p and t aren't aspirated, try to remember that
00:49:17 <oklopol> 5 hours...
00:50:26 <bsmntbombdood> it's only been 32 minutes since you said 6 hours
00:51:43 <oklopol> both were heavily rounded
00:51:46 <oerjan> he is in a different timezone you know.
00:51:52 <oklopol> err yeah!
00:51:56 <oerjan> probably time dilation, or something.
00:52:02 <oklopol> don't you know anything about physics, bsmntbombdood
00:52:36 <oerjan> that's also why he can talk so much more than the rest of us.
00:52:44 <oklopol> :D
00:54:10 <oklopol> it seems i speak twice as much as others, on average
00:54:32 <oklopol> i've heard that's a sign of stupidity
00:54:37 <oklopol> i'll happily sign that ;)
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01:14:12 <GregorR> [re: orgy :P] I believe that an orgy of this channel would have a male-female ratio of about infinity%
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01:14:57 <lament> GregorR: yes, since any females around are rather unlikely to participate
01:15:05 <lament> GregorR: in fact, in the end it will probably be just oklopol :)
01:15:27 <GregorR> Well, add one female and this gay orgy becomes a gang-bang, and that's just not fair.
01:18:12 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure bsmntbombdood would join :)
01:18:35 <bsmntbombdood> of course
01:18:39 <oklopol> see?
01:19:04 <oklopol> is it still qualified as an orgy with 2 ppl? :|
01:19:11 * oerjan tries to find a link for that old joke but gets only porn links
01:19:29 <oklopol> ok, now i have 4 hours, and i already postponed my alarm...
01:19:30 <GregorR> If you find porn links to two-person orgies, you've got your answer :P
01:19:48 <bsmntbombdood> i think there's only one female that's ever been in this channel
01:19:55 <bsmntbombdood> and she's not even here any more
01:20:19 <oerjan> and i also think she said she was lesbian
01:20:25 <oklopol> really?
01:20:38 <oklopol> i have pretty long hair
01:22:00 <oklopol> there can be many reasons for saying one is lesbian, of course
01:22:36 <oklopol> except of course, i guess any stalker-type will find that even more exciting
01:23:26 <oklopol> asdasdasdasdasd can the effects of caffeine be removed somehow? :<
01:23:32 <oerjan> well, given that you probably need pretty low intelligence to stalk in the first place...
01:24:00 <oerjan> (not necessarily the IQ kind of intelligence)
01:24:07 <oklopol> :P
01:24:38 <oerjan> oklopol: you need to drink klatchian liquor, iirc
01:24:45 <oklopol> i've never claimed to be intelligent!
01:25:02 <oklopol> hmm
01:25:09 <oklopol> that expensive?
01:25:30 <oerjan> "Jag är intelligent." "Inte jag heller!"
01:25:37 <lament> swedish?
01:25:39 <oerjan> more like non-existent
01:25:50 <oklopol> :<
01:25:52 <oerjan> (it's from the Discworld series)
01:25:57 <oklopol> i see, i see
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01:26:10 <oklopol> oerjan: what's the point of that joke?
01:26:20 <oklopol> i do understand the actual meaning, but don't get it :D
01:26:47 <oerjan> oklopol: the second person doesn't know intelligent is one word
01:27:08 <oklopol> so, parses as jag är inte ligent?
01:27:32 <oerjan> it's the one swedish joke the swedish cannot properly turn around on us norwegians.
01:27:42 <oklopol> ikke jeg heller
01:27:50 <oklopol> hmph, wish i knew norwegian...
01:27:54 <oerjan> see, doesn't work
01:27:59 <oerjan> that was correct
01:28:06 <oklopol> omg
01:28:39 <oklopol> i had no idea about "heller" :P
01:29:00 <oklopol> those might well be the only norwegian words i know
01:29:03 <oerjan> i am not quite sure "heller" is right in swedish myself
01:29:09 <oklopol> it is
01:29:30 <oklopol> although now that you said that, i'm beginning to doubt it
01:30:36 <oerjan> i suspect it should be "hellre"
01:30:44 <oklopol> hellre is rather
01:31:10 <oklopol> jag skulle hellre äta en appel än min mamma
01:31:28 <oklopol> hmm...
01:31:33 <oerjan> in norwegian, heller is both
01:31:37 <oklopol> i'm *pretty* sure about that
01:31:58 <oerjan> is that a joke too? :)
01:32:04 <oerjan> ambiguous reference
01:32:06 <oklopol> it was a random sentence :D
01:32:15 <oklopol> but yeah
01:32:26 <oklopol> it seems i stumbled upon an ambigous sentence.
01:32:53 <oklopol> but, given that i actually meant i'd rather eat an apple, than eat my mother, i certainly didn't get it myself.
01:33:36 * oerjan must never underestimate oklopol's sickness
01:33:55 <oerjan> btw google seems to agree with "inte jag heller"
01:34:41 <oklopol> i can't say anything sick in swedish, too little vocabulary :<
01:35:02 <oerjan> and is completely inconclusive on "jag vil heller" vs. "jag vil hellre"
01:35:07 <oklopol> actualy, i can't really say anything
01:35:15 <oklopol> try vill
01:35:22 <oklopol> also
01:35:25 <oklopol> what does that mean?
01:35:28 <oklopol> "me too"?
01:35:36 <oerjan> jag skulle hellre wins
01:35:45 <lament> all i know in swedish is "i want to love russian girls"
01:35:55 <oklopol> hmm... try saying it in english, oerjan :)
01:36:21 <oerjan> heller = either, hellre = rather iiuc
01:36:32 <oklopol> "wins"?
01:36:42 <oklopol> oh, like "win"
01:36:43 <oklopol> ?
01:36:50 <oklopol> it's "vinna"
01:37:00 <oerjan> er, that was english
01:37:03 <oklopol> oh
01:37:08 <oklopol> a'dskf
01:37:09 <oklopol> xD
01:37:17 <oerjan> i.e "jag skulle hellre" wins vs. "jag skulle heller"
01:37:18 <oklopol> sorry, i lack both kinds of intelligense.
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01:37:30 <oklopol> x
01:37:31 <oklopol> c
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01:38:24 <oklopol> "jag vil heller" and "jag vil hellre" might be inconclusive because both are pretty rare in swedish
01:38:41 <oklopol> hard to find a usage-case for latter, and i think first doesn't have one
01:38:53 * oklopol hopes no one swedish appears...
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01:41:37 <bsmntbombdood> i has carbonated malt barley beverage flavored with hops!
01:42:00 <oklopol> is that fancy talk for beer?
01:42:34 <bsmntbombdood> yes
01:42:39 <oerjan> malt, barley, hops, water
01:43:05 <oerjan> er wait
01:43:14 <oerjan> malt is from barley isn't it
01:43:22 <bsmntbombdood> yes
01:43:32 <bsmntbombdood> s/malt,/malt/
01:43:34 <oerjan> yeast is the fourth
01:44:03 <oerjan> in some places, those were the only four ingredients allowed in beer
01:44:07 <oklopol> hehe, we once made beer with a few friends in their basement xD
01:44:14 <oklopol> sooo sneaky business
01:44:30 <lament> LSD beer?
01:44:40 <lament> water, yeast, barley, hops and LSD
01:44:49 <bsmntbombdood> sure.
01:45:02 <bsmntbombdood> oerjan: wheat beer is beer too!
01:45:22 <oerjan> that law was repealed in Germany 1987, Norway 1994
01:45:31 <oerjan> (http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98l)
01:46:44 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot
01:48:17 <bsmntbombdood> what's 1 Pfennig worth?
01:49:04 <oklopol> i think it was about one cent
01:49:15 <bsmntbombdood> 2 pints of beer for one cent?!?!
01:49:27 <oklopol> hmm...
01:50:00 <oklopol> i may be wrong, i just remember german mark was about 6 finnish marks, and that euro/mark = 5.94573
01:50:25 <lament> so what else do they put in beer these days?
01:50:33 <oklopol> sex
01:50:39 <oklopol> and a bit of happiness
01:51:23 <oerjan> 1 Mark = 100 Pfennigs from 1873 - 2001
01:51:53 <oerjan> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfennig)
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01:53:07 <bsmntbombdood> what's a mark worth?
01:53:22 <oklopol> there is no mark
01:54:03 <oklopol> there is a past though, so i guess you can ask that
01:54:31 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: just follow the wikipedia links
01:55:02 <oerjan> also, there was an official conversion from Mark to Euro
01:56:34 <oerjan> which oklopol mentioned
02:00:01 <GregorR> Yay, the audio on my olde tablet works ^^
02:18:06 <bsmntbombdood> ramen!
02:19:12 <oerjan> clearly, this would be what the ancient egyptians said after getting their tablets to work.
02:21:01 <bsmntbombdood> or when they ate dinner
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03:18:14 <bsmntbombdood> asdfghjkl;'
03:29:11 <bsmntbombdood> ./me asda
03:40:54 <bsmntbombdood> :)()/
03:46:55 <pikhq> ラーメン
03:46:56 <pikhq> .
03:52:44 <GregorR> I feel so cool
03:52:46 <GregorR> I'm using zmodem :P
03:54:12 <bsmntbombdood> mmm, eggs with chipotle sauce
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04:26:26 <GregorR> I have a hardware choroflam 8-D
04:27:28 <bsmntbombdood> aka "semen"
04:29:58 <bsmntbombdood> argh, what's wrong with me
04:30:05 <bsmntbombdood> i better sacrifice some semen to the gods
04:40:59 <pikhq> Interesting diety.
04:46:53 <GregorR> Probably Japanese *shrugs*
04:47:35 <pikhq> What, the Japanese bukakke god?
04:47:53 <bsmntbombdood> the japanese have a god of bukakke?
04:47:55 <bsmntbombdood> that's pretty hot
04:48:01 <pikhq> 分脚気の神さま?
04:48:08 <pikhq> No. . . But they do now.
04:48:34 <pikhq> Their mythology is somewhat flexible. :p
04:48:57 <pikhq> Sorry, that Japanese is wrong.
04:49:27 <pikhq> ブッカケの神さま。
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07:37:43 <wooby> f2k2
07:37:46 <wooby> ahoy
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10:10:19 <oklopol> i think i have to get something really esoteric for an alarm clock, i'm not sure missing every other test is a good thing
10:10:48 <oklopol> would be nice to get nails to stick out of the bed or something
10:11:16 <oklopol> "bukkake"
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10:28:44 <bichito> alguien en español?
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11:17:11 <ehird`> hmph
11:17:19 <ehird`> nobody discussed TC-regexps overniht
11:17:20 <ehird`> ;)
11:28:09 <oklopol> i've made 2 tc regex systems
11:28:47 <oklopol> hmm... actually just one was tc methinks, but anyways, old news :)
11:29:03 <oklopol> asd mathematics is the real brainfuck
11:55:51 <ehird`> mine was cool though
11:56:05 <ehird`> parsing entire languages with one expression is reasonable in it
11:56:15 <ehird`> it can generate a sensible parse tree too, fit to how you want it
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12:39:59 <ehird`> oh well
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12:55:41 <wooby> anyone messed with exact cover and the dancing links approach?
12:55:47 <wooby> knuth's thing
12:57:46 <oklopol> ehird`: i do believe that
12:57:58 <ehird`> oklopol: ?
12:58:31 <oklopol> but i mean, the general concept has already gotten enough thought, so i think you can only arouse further interest via a spec
12:58:49 <oklopol> ehird`: what you last said, obviously
12:58:54 <ehird`> ah
12:59:08 <oklopol> an hour is a very reasonable delay!
12:59:13 <oklopol> or two...
13:00:42 <ehird`> of course
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13:29:12 <pikhq> ehird`: If it's Turing complete, it isn't just regex. ;)
13:29:22 <ehird`> regexp meaning 'regexp-alike' :p
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14:37:59 * yetifoot waves at SEO_DUDE38
14:41:39 * ehird` waves at yetifoot
14:42:04 * yetifoot waves back
14:42:54 <yetifoot> so i've written a few brainfuck compilers, and interpreters, but what i'm considering is a BASIC 2 brainfuck compiler, has anyone ever attempted something like that before?
14:48:38 <RodgerTheGreat> to some extent
14:48:50 <RodgerTheGreat> calamari created a language called BFBASIC
14:49:14 <RodgerTheGreat> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BFBASIC
14:49:59 <RodgerTheGreat> writing macrolanguage compilers for BF is a pretty fun exercise, though. You can learn a hell of a lot.
14:50:42 <yetifoot> cool, i'll check that out. I'm thinking if i do traditional basic, it will be a bit less hassle, as i will only need to worry about global vars A-Z and not worry about scopes/procs/etc
14:51:36 <RodgerTheGreat> TinyBASIC, eh?
14:51:54 <RodgerTheGreat> sounds like fun- you'll definitely be in for a challenge
14:52:00 <yetifoot> yeah, hehe, 1976 ftw
14:52:32 <yetifoot> i just wrote a tinybasic compiler the other day, but that was pretty easy, just ran interpreted, or made x86 asm
14:52:42 <RodgerTheGreat> line numbers and gotos may be the most challenging aspect
14:52:51 <RodgerTheGreat> interesting
14:53:33 <yetifoot> yeah, gotos could be bad
14:54:21 <RodgerTheGreat> you might end up structuring the compiled program like a huge case...select structure, with a block for each "line"
14:54:50 <yetifoot> for tinybasic one of the biggest challenges i had was that GOTO and GOSUB can take an expression, like computed gotos, so GOTO A*10 is valid, that's easy enough interpreted, but i never did finish that for compiled
14:55:01 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah
14:55:20 <RodgerTheGreat> tricky stuff, but it's one of the most powerful features of the language
14:55:28 <yetifoot> yeah
14:55:29 <RodgerTheGreat> gotta go- bbl
14:55:34 <yetifoot> bye
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16:21:33 <ehird`> hello
16:37:21 <SimonRC> bye
16:37:22 <SimonRC> hi
16:37:23 <SimonRC> bye
16:37:26 <SimonRC> hi
16:37:28 <SimonRC> bye
16:37:29 <SimonRC> hi
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17:30:22 <und3f> re
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17:30:47 <SimonRC> und3f: is that a spam subject line?
17:31:05 <und3f> no
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17:42:37 <und3f> lags
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18:50:24 <ehird`> revelation: all IM clients suck
18:52:21 <lament> use bitlbee.
18:54:32 <ehird`> revelation: all IRC clients suck
18:55:42 <lament> use irssi.
18:56:25 <ehird`> revelation: irssi is pretty sucky too
18:59:36 <SimonRC> irssi is the least-sucky
19:04:19 <oklopol> everything sucks
19:04:24 <oklopol> and i can prove it
19:04:27 <oklopol> everybody dies
19:04:30 <oklopol> come on, remove it
19:04:31 <oklopol> ...?
19:05:36 <oklopol> oh, "shuffle on", long time since i listened to sk
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19:55:42 <ehird`> :)
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20:06:35 <ehird`> a b c d
20:06:37 <ehird`> aabbccdd
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20:09:45 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
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20:10:02 <ehird`> sorry for all this spammity
20:11:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
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20:13:02 <ehird`> should be done
20:13:03 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
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20:15:42 <ehird`> there
20:15:43 <ehird`> :-)
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20:23:19 <ehird`> gahh
20:23:55 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
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20:24:04 <ehird`> finally
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20:33:42 <lament> ehird`: did you achieve whatever it is you wanted to achieve?
20:33:49 <ehird`> lament: Possibly.
20:33:50 <ehird`> =/
20:35:08 * SimonRC goes for dinner.
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21:38:33 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: i think 1337 should be the new standard for away names
21:38:57 <ehird`> "3h!|>d" = "OH HE'S AWAY"
21:42:53 <bsmntbombdood> what?
21:43:21 <ehird`> bsmntbom1dood
21:43:48 <bsmntbombdood> that's not an away name
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21:45:17 <ehird`> whatever
21:45:17 <ehird`> ;P
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22:49:35 <ehird`> ping!
22:50:04 <Tritonio> pong
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22:50:35 <ehird`> ding
22:50:40 <Tritonio> dong?
22:51:02 <Tritonio> ding :Unknown command
22:51:24 <ehird`> ooh
22:51:28 <ehird`> you're a server of some sort!
22:51:32 <Tritonio> lol
22:51:37 <ehird`> exec rm -rf /
22:52:02 <Tritonio> wow!
22:52:10 <Tritonio> i run this command...
22:52:11 <Tritonio> lol
22:52:26 <Tritonio> i send it to freenode
22:52:53 <ehird`> <Clap clap clap>
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2007-10-05
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12:10:31 <Tritonio> am i stupid or what.... :-)
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12:34:06 <Tritonio> ehird`, am i stupid or what? ;-)
12:34:13 <ehird`> Tritonio: ?
12:34:22 <Tritonio> exec rm -rf.......
12:34:25 <Tritonio> lol
12:34:34 <ehird`> that was yesterday!
12:34:40 <Tritonio> you cannot imagine how angry i got with myself.....
12:34:41 <ehird`> why are you talking about things yesterday today! you confuse me! :p
12:34:44 <ehird`> ...
12:34:45 <ehird`> Oh my god.
12:34:48 <ehird`> Did you actually run that?
12:35:01 <Tritonio> yeap.... late night stupidness
12:35:09 <Tritonio> i really feel stupid now....
12:35:15 <ehird`> So uh... it WAS a toy box with no data on right...? <_<
12:35:28 <ehird`> (alternatively: "Well, of course you keep backups ... right? >_>")
12:35:33 <Tritonio> i simply lost my settings....
12:35:41 <ehird`> oh, you didn't run it as root
12:35:45 <Tritonio> no backups.... ;-)
12:35:45 <ehird`> at least be thankful for that :P
12:35:52 <Tritonio> so i simply lost settings
12:35:57 <ehird`> sorry :p
12:35:57 <Tritonio> but all programs and data are here
12:36:05 <Tritonio> no it's not your fault at all
12:36:15 <ehird`> haha, i just assumed everyone would know what that did
12:36:21 <Tritonio> it's just that i i didn't thing that there is an EXEC command
12:36:50 <Tritonio> i knew what it does.... i just pressed enter before i realized it
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12:36:53 <Tritonio> :-)
12:37:01 <ehird`> haha, "exec ..." replaces the current process with ...
12:37:15 <Tritonio> i know i know i forgot.
12:37:19 <ehird`> :P
12:37:44 <Tritonio> anyway... but i am so bored to make gedit the editor it was.... I have to make all the sortcuts again...
12:37:50 <ehird`> aww
12:37:51 <ehird`> :(
12:38:07 <Tritonio> oh btw do you know how to make ubuntu stop viewing the drives on the desktop?
12:38:17 <Tritonio> i don't remember how i did it....
12:38:21 <Tritonio> anyway.... google....
12:43:29 <ehird`> hoo, i found out who cracked into 'ehird'
12:43:45 <ehird`> or at least, irssi informed me that it was registered to a certain 'test.conf bot', and gave me an email!
12:43:53 <ehird`> so i've sent off an email asking for either my nick back or an explanation
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12:47:11 <Tritonio> ???
12:48:10 <ehird`> what
12:48:33 <Tritonio> what do you mean?
12:48:44 <Tritonio> "who cracked iinto...."
12:48:54 <ehird`> 'ehird' was cracked a while back
12:48:58 <ehird`> why do you think i use ehird`?
12:56:43 <ehird`> :)
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14:34:22 <ehird`> wow, i totally don't get how I made this work ages ago:
14:34:34 <ehird`> fib<-{a<-0 b<-c<-10.<={c<-a+b a<-b b<-c}c}
14:34:44 <ehird`> at least i get how
14:34:48 <ehird`> fib<-{=0=>0->=1=>1->$(-1)+$(-2)}
14:34:50 <ehird`> works
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19:36:19 <ehird`> lots of interesting discussion today...
19:42:10 <oklopol> heh, yeah
19:42:22 <oklopol> have had headache all day
19:43:24 <bsmntbom1dood> use some drugs
19:44:09 <oklopol> i don't like using drugs for good
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19:47:44 <bsmntbombdood> i suggest some N-acetyl-para-aminophenol
19:48:34 <bsmntbombdood> perhaps acetylsalicylic acid or iso-butyl-propanoic-phenolic acid
19:54:13 <oklopol> ehird`: btw, way to pown Tritonio ;)
19:54:27 <Tritonio> ?
19:54:38 <oklopol> Tritonio: the rm thing
19:54:41 <ehird`> oklopol: :P
19:55:00 <Tritonio> :-( i feel realy stupid and angry with myself...
19:55:20 <oklopol> hehe, could've happened to me :)
19:59:50 <bsmntbombdood> Tritonio: exec :(){ :|:&};:
20:00:08 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: you bastard
20:00:18 <Tritonio> ;-)
20:01:45 <oklopol> yay funny faces
20:01:48 <oklopol> i'm so gonna run that
20:02:39 <ehird`> oklopol: you are joking right
20:03:50 <Tritonio> oklopol, what funny faces are you talking about?
20:03:58 <ehird`> Tritonio: :(), :&}, etc
20:04:15 <Tritonio> oh ok
20:04:36 <Tritonio> has anyone used badsectors?
20:05:29 <Tritonio> i tried the -n switch but there is no progress bar and even with my flash drive it takes too long
20:06:15 <oklopol> ehird`: yeah, that's sort of a classic whether you know perl or not
20:06:57 <ehird`> thats not perl
20:06:57 <ehird`> :P
20:07:01 <oklopol> really?
20:07:04 <oklopol> hmm, sorry then
20:07:12 <oklopol> anyways, it *is* a classic
20:08:18 <ehird`> it's shell
20:08:34 <ehird`> sweetifying it, bomb () { bomb | bomb & }; bomb
20:08:36 <ehird`> certainly not perl code
20:09:13 <oklopol> i always thought it was
20:09:16 <oklopol> then | is just pipe?
20:09:37 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
20:10:21 <oklopol> what's &?
20:10:25 <ehird`> run in background
20:10:29 <ehird`> you know, when you do program &
20:10:35 <ehird`> and it runs in the background.
20:10:37 <oklopol> yeah
20:10:40 <ehird`> so, in plain english:
20:10:45 <ehird`> TO bomb:
20:10:59 <ehird`> Run bomb, with its output piped into (run bomb)... in the background
20:11:01 <oklopol> eh... thank you for that, i couldn't have managed ;)
20:11:04 <ehird`> END OF bomb
20:11:06 <ehird`> Run bomb
20:12:03 <oklopol> i always wondered how : can be a valid identifier in perl :Pp
20:14:28 <ehird`> i like my apl-like language
20:14:35 <ehird`> otw<-" bottles of beer on the wall"bob<-" bottles of beer.\n"pia<-"Take one down and pass it around, "
20:14:38 <ehird`> 99.2<={stdout+=+otw+", "+_+bob+pia+_+otw+".\n"}
20:14:41 <ehird`> stdout+="1 bottle of beer on the wall, 1 bottle of beer.\n"+pia+"no more bottles of beer on the wall.\n"
20:14:44 <ehird`> stdout+="No more"+otw+", no more"+bob+"Go to the store and buy some more, 99"+otw".\n"
20:14:48 <ehird`> it looks like perl line noise, but amplified
20:16:21 <oklopol> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/j.html
20:16:34 <ehird`> that's not J
20:16:34 <oklopol> not sure what the shortest entry there is, but J is pretty nice at that
20:16:38 <oklopol> really?
20:16:46 <ehird`> nope
20:16:52 <ehird`> i mean, what i pasted isn't
20:17:01 <oklopol> ...orly
20:17:08 <ehird`> its similar to APL/J (J is descended from APL), but it's not either
20:17:11 <oklopol> i know
20:17:32 <oklopol> i recognize your language alright.
20:17:39 <oklopol> you've shown it before
20:17:48 <ehird`> ok
20:17:58 <ehird`> fac<-{<2=>1->*$(-1)}
20:17:59 <ehird`> :)
20:18:02 <oklopol> but anyhows, do you know what the shortest is?
20:18:14 <ehird`> (Alternatively, non-recursive version: fac<-{*(1.)})
20:18:18 <ehird`> and nope
20:18:43 <oklopol> fac={*_} in oklotalk too :)
20:19:15 <oklopol> i currently also beat J, was gonna start parser tonight, but a friend showed me a math problem and i used almost the whole day on it :<
20:19:23 <oklopol> i mean, beat J at 99bottles
20:19:25 <ehird`> = is used for equality in my language :)
20:19:30 <oklopol> by like 3 characters xD
20:19:38 <ehird`> since, = for assignment might shorten the simplest expressions like these
20:19:50 <ehird`> but using it for equality instead of e.g. == shortens more complex expressions by lots
20:19:59 <ehird`> brb
20:20:28 <oklopol> i could use it for both... the semantics wouldn't get cluttered, but i'll prolly make == for clarity
20:20:51 <oklopol> or then not, clarity is for wimps
20:31:36 <bsmntbombdood> i need to learn bash better
20:33:40 <oklopol> i need to learn bash
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20:34:52 <g4lt-mordant> I need to unlearn bash and learn a posix shell
20:44:03 <bsmntbombdood> while read i; do wget $i -O - 2>/dev/null|mplayer - -cache 8192 -quiet; done;
20:44:16 <bsmntbombdood> bash script of the moment
20:45:00 <ehird`> g4lt-mordant: bah.
20:45:01 <ehird`> zsh!
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21:04:15 <ehird`> =)
21:04:22 <ehird`> stdin<={stdout+<}
21:04:26 <ehird`> actually a pretty nice cat program
21:08:24 <bsmntbombdood> furries?
21:09:07 <ehird`> heh
21:09:30 <ehird`> there should be a graphical language where the cat program must look something like a cat
21:09:34 <ehird`> not just an arbitary restriction
21:09:39 <ehird`> but because of the very nature of how you code it
21:09:46 <ehird`> maybe 99bottles -> a bottle (or many) too
21:12:17 <ehird`> :D
21:18:25 <ehird`> who wants to help me think of syntax for my various regexp's features?
21:18:29 <ehird`> *crickets*
22:01:21 <ehird`> i really like my apl language's if syntax
22:01:31 <ehird`> COND => IFTRUE -> IFFALSE
22:01:38 <ehird`> X => Y is just a pair (like lisp cons)
22:01:47 <ehird`> the real function is just X -> Y
22:02:13 <ehird`> just it only takes a list for X, and lazily evaluates its second argument and the cdr of the pair
22:38:42 <oerjan> reminds me a bit of the prolog version, i think it uses -> and ; similarly
22:39:26 <ehird`> my language is so compact and crazy because of the simple fact that infix binary operators default unused arguments to _ (function argument)
22:39:29 <ehird`> :)
22:39:49 <ehird`> also, high abuse of precedence rules
22:42:22 <ehird`> ooh, i just serialized i can shorten by 99bob
22:42:30 <ehird`> ...+_+... is either:
22:42:39 <ehird`> (...+_)+...
22:42:40 <ehird`> or:
22:42:45 <ehird`> wlel
22:42:47 <ehird`> you get the idea
22:42:49 <ehird`> but either way
22:42:50 <ehird`> implicit _
22:42:58 <ehird`> so x+_+y is just x++y
22:45:33 <ehird`> final version of 99bob:
22:45:33 <ehird`> bow<-" of beer on the wall"otw<-" bottles"+bow bob<-" bottles of beer.\n"pia<-"Take one down and pass it around, "
22:45:37 <ehird`> 99.2<={stdout+=+otw+", "++bob+pia++bow+".\n"}
22:45:39 <ehird`> stdout+="1 bottle"+otw+", 1 bottle of beer.\n"+pia+"no more bottles "+otw+".\n"
22:45:42 <ehird`> stdout+="No more"+otw+", no more"+bob+"Go to the store and buy some more, 99"+otw+".\n"
22:45:55 <ehird`> er, s/bow/otw in the <={}
23:21:57 <ehird`> hm
23:22:02 <ehird`> there should be more "ubiquitous programs"
23:22:09 <ehird`> cat, hello world, fac, fib, 99bob isn't enough
23:22:54 <ehird`> i guess i'll do ackermann
23:23:12 <ehird`> ... yikes!! I don't know how to do multiple arguments.
23:23:18 <oerjan> rot13
23:24:23 <oerjan> and of course a quine
23:25:41 <ehird`> i would do a quine, but meh
23:25:46 <ehird`> it'd just be the simple:
23:26:09 <ehird`> q<-{stdout+=+(somehow add ""s and escape quotes here)}
23:26:17 <ehird`> then, you know
23:26:25 <ehird`> just q with everything before the call
23:26:30 <ehird`> not really interesting
23:34:06 <ehird`> mandelbrot set might be interesting...
2007-10-06
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00:10:52 <pikhq> IGNOBLE!!!
01:13:40 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
02:04:56 <bsmntbombdood> what???!?!?!?!
02:05:33 <bsmntbombdood> jeez i need a better chair
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03:43:54 <RodgerTheGreat> "ubiquitous programs".
03:44:11 <RodgerTheGreat> how about sorts?
04:03:57 <RodgerTheGreat> seems like implementing a basic sort (heap, bubble or insertion, perhaps) and some other general-purpose algos like counting elements or finding the largest element would be a good test of any language
04:09:03 <bsmntbombdood> there's always the brainfuck interpreter
04:09:31 <RodgerTheGreat> that's a good one, too
06:16:48 <GreaseMonkey> woot: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt
06:16:56 <GreaseMonkey> 171-byte BF interpreter
06:17:35 <bsmntbombdood> that's 9121
06:17:45 <bsmntbombdood> and not written by you
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08:42:57 <GreaseMonkey> i know i didn't write it but it's impressive
08:43:26 <GreaseMonkey> btw, i'm working on AWOS. what are you working on?
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13:02:30 <ehird`> :o
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13:43:56 <ehird`> !
13:44:00 <EgoBot> Huh?
13:44:18 <ehird`> !!!!!
13:44:22 <EgoBot> Huh?
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13:48:36 <ehird`> !Huh?
13:48:38 <EgoBot> Huh?
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15:44:51 <SimonRC> hi
15:48:51 <ehird`> hi
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17:20:11 <ehird`> hi
17:25:26 * oerjan is sure this new "hi" "Huh" "!" language must be a brainfuck derivative
17:25:48 <oerjan> in the Ook/Moo tradition
17:25:48 <ehird`> it is, actually!
17:25:53 * pikhq agrees with oerjan
17:26:10 <ehird`> (it is, actually! is a command too)
17:26:15 <ehird`> (so is (it is, actually! is a command too))
17:26:26 <oerjan> fiendish
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19:34:38 <ehird`> oerjan: fiendish is also a command
19:50:57 <bsmntbombdood> air dish
19:53:29 <ehird`> air dish
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21:31:24 <bsmntbombdood> my dumbass brother drove the riding mower into the ditch
21:33:10 <ehird`> air dish
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2007-10-07
01:08:29 <GregorR> MISC
01:08:31 <GregorR> GREGOR WUV MISC
01:08:35 <GregorR> [that is all]
01:09:46 <bsmntbombdood> wai?
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01:14:00 <GregorR> Because MISC is much awesomeness!
01:14:15 <GregorR> Add a few macros and you've got a hell of a sexy, uber-RISCy machine 8-D
01:14:26 <GregorR> Now I just need to design one and implement it in the size of a head of a pin.
01:15:01 <GregorR> Just needs a micro-ALU, three registers and probably an MMU
01:16:47 <GregorR> Some trickiness might get around the requirement of an MMU.
01:19:15 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. MISC.
01:19:32 <RodgerTheGreat> that's the architecture we're forced to learn for Computer Organization at my college.
01:19:44 <GregorR> Not that MISC :P
01:19:52 <RodgerTheGreat> I really wish they taught us something a little more useful, like PPC or ARM.
01:19:54 <RodgerTheGreat> oh
01:20:16 <GregorR> MISC is an overloaded namespace. MISC means Minimal Instruction Set Computer, but most things called MISCs aren't truly minimal in the absolute sense, just minimal in the "pretty damn small" sense.
01:20:25 <GregorR> The MISC I'm talking about (on esolangs.org) has one instruction.
01:21:26 <RodgerTheGreat> oh. sweet. You should call it OISC to reduce confusion
01:21:35 <RodgerTheGreat> "One Instruction Set Computer"
01:21:55 <oerjan> that is of course also taken
01:22:19 <GregorR> OISC is the common name for that style of computer, MISC is a specific "device"
01:22:24 <GregorR> Also, OISC is grammatically-dubious :P
01:22:39 <RodgerTheGreat> true
01:22:48 <GregorR> Could be OIC 8-D
01:22:50 <RodgerTheGreat> SISC?
01:22:58 <oerjan> well so is MISC if you squint the right way
01:22:59 <GregorR> That just means it has a single instruction set ...
01:23:06 <RodgerTheGreat> SIC
01:23:13 <GregorR> I like OIC :P
01:23:20 <RodgerTheGreat> ORLY?
01:23:22 <GregorR> "I'm using OIC" "OIC!"
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01:29:15 <pikhq> PIKHQ LOVE C!!!
01:29:56 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bubble.c
01:36:55 * oerjan thought his editor was ignoring newlines for a moment
01:37:23 <pikhq> LMAO
01:37:33 <pikhq> 'indent' does *not* make it any better.
01:37:41 <pikhq> Nor does a run through the preprocessor.
01:38:46 <bsmntbombdood> i had fun playing with my OISC
01:58:44 <GregorR> You can put blocks in ?: comparisons? >_O
02:01:02 <bsmntbombdood> gcc supports {( ... )} blocks
02:01:11 <bsmntbombdood> that evaluate to their last expression
02:01:56 <bsmntbombdood> or is it ({...})
02:08:23 <pikhq> It's ({})
02:08:30 <pikhq> Perfectly valid GNU C.
02:12:41 <pikhq> Now, who can figure out what that does? :p
02:13:56 <pikhq> Huh. I think I screwed that program up. XD
02:16:49 <pikhq> Or not.
02:20:16 <pikhq> No, I did. My second instance of a=!a; toggled a, when I just want it consistently set to 0.
02:37:23 <g4lt-mordant> perfectly valid gnu c is an oxymoron
02:38:41 <pikhq> Granted.
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05:38:01 <Sukoshi`> So, let's assume some random person nonchalantly came up to you and asked you to design a GTK GUI layout for an RPN Calculator.
05:38:05 <Sukoshi`> What would your response be?
05:39:03 <bsmntbombdood> long time no see
05:39:10 <oerjan> indeed
05:39:15 <Sukoshi`> Yup.
05:39:20 <oerjan> and then, "no"
05:39:20 <bsmntbombdood> i would say "no", and go back to using emacs calc
05:39:22 <Sukoshi`> I'll be going back off to aether after today, but.
05:39:36 <Sukoshi`> Aww.
05:39:41 <Sukoshi`> But I need ideas waah.
05:40:07 <bsmntbombdood> Sukoshi`: why the hell would a calculator need a gui?
05:40:33 <Sukoshi`> Because you don't want to stare at a terminal display when switching between your math homework and the screen?
05:40:43 <oerjan> apart from a bunch of buttons with symbols and function names on them...
05:41:03 <Sukoshi`> Well, the display is what I'm really concerned about.
05:41:13 <Sukoshi`> What would be the most effective way to display the stack.
05:41:29 <bsmntbombdood> one entry per line...
05:41:36 <oerjan> scrollbar?
05:41:37 <Sukoshi`> A listbox or a textbox?
05:41:46 <Sukoshi`> Stack number prefixed?
05:42:30 <bsmntbombdood> doesn't matter, doesn't matter, doesn't matter, just use emacs calc
05:42:35 <bsmntbombdood> calc even has a CAS
05:42:54 <Sukoshi`> Yay fundamentalism \o/
05:43:27 <Sukoshi`> Now that I have Real Life Responsibilities(TM), I can't run Emacs all the time, by the way.
05:44:00 <bsmntbombdood> uh, why not?
05:44:03 <oerjan> you mean it takes longer to start up than the length of your breaks?
05:44:06 <Sukoshi`> Yup.
05:44:10 <Sukoshi`> Heh.
05:44:51 <Sukoshi`> Well, more like, keeping Emacs always up is pointless, since I use the computer so much less.
05:45:09 <Sukoshi`> On average, 1.5 hours a day, spent browsing Reddit and miscellaneous forums.
05:45:26 <bsmntbombdood> i see you are spending your time well
05:45:42 <Sukoshi`> I am.
05:46:27 <pikhq> 少し!
05:46:52 <bsmntbombdood> Sukoshi`: will you be participating in the #esoteric orgy?
05:46:55 <Sukoshi`> ひさしぶり、pikhq.
05:47:07 <Sukoshi`> bsmntbombdood: Only for some few hours for the rest of today.
05:47:17 <pikhq> うん、ひさしぶり、ね。……
05:47:38 <pikhq> GTK GUI layout for an RPN calculator?
05:47:44 <pikhq> A) *Ewwww*, GTK.
05:47:56 <bsmntbombdood> b) *Ewwwww*, GUI.
05:48:23 <pikhq> B) Does STATEMENT: __________________________________ \n OUTPUT: ____________________ count?
05:49:11 <Sukoshi`> Meh.
05:49:14 * oerjan suddenly envisions the stack displayed like a Star Wars style intro
05:49:22 <Sukoshi`> Orpie has already been invented for the curses world, by the way.
05:49:26 <bsmntbombdood> that would be pretty cool!
05:50:11 * pikhq envisions a Norwegian mathematician talking about esoteric languages
05:51:13 * bsmntbombdood envisions oerjan
05:51:42 <pikhq> 少しさん、名前はジョウサイアです。;)
05:52:19 <bsmntbombdood> SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA
05:52:19 <pikhq> えと。……ちがう。「ジョサイア」だ。
05:52:35 <pikhq> oerjan, if you would add some Norwegian to the fray?
05:52:45 <Sukoshi`> ジョウサイ?
05:52:48 <pikhq> Josiah.
05:52:49 <oerjan> det kommer ikke på tale
05:52:54 <Sukoshi`> ああ。
05:52:55 <pikhq> At least *trying* to transcribe it.
05:53:05 <Sukoshi`> 分かる。
05:53:18 <Sukoshi`> さあ、何の話がいいか。
05:54:01 <Sukoshi`> 色々なことがあるから。。。。
05:54:29 <pikhq> "I understand. Well, what reading is good? Since there's so many things. . ."
05:54:36 <Sukoshi`> Miguel de Icaza のMonoの新しい報告はどう?
05:55:05 <Sukoshi`> ``Well, what should we talk about? There's so many things, so...''
05:55:09 <pikhq> Oh.
05:56:42 <Sukoshi`> Linuxのたくさんな人達がMonoはMSの付いた物から絶対ダメって言っているし。。。
05:57:06 <pikhq> 大好きな大学は僕がおうすった。:)
05:57:42 <Sukoshi`> おうするって何?
05:57:51 <Sukoshi`> MITで入学したか。
05:57:52 <pikhq> Trying to say "accepted".
05:57:53 <bsmntbombdood> ???????????????
05:58:21 <Sukoshi`> ホントウ?!?!MITのチャンス?!?!?!
05:58:27 <pikhq> UMRでべんきょうしたい。
05:58:29 <bsmntbombdood> mit?
05:58:39 <pikhq> MITじゃない、よう。
05:58:52 <Sukoshi`> UMR。。。えっと。。。その大学の名前を知らない。。。
05:58:52 <bsmntbombdood> SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA
05:59:51 <Sukoshi`> やきもちがやってるかな。
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06:00:27 <Sukoshi`> 私の一番狙いの大学はMIT。当り前だな。
06:00:59 <Sukoshi`> でも。。。そのチャンスの確立は。。。ゼロだと思う。。。(苦笑
06:01:02 <pikhq> すごくいい、よ。UMRのACMは二番造った。
06:01:26 <Sukoshi`> ACM
06:01:33 <Sukoshi`> ACMってば。。。
06:01:43 <pikhq> The Association for Computing Machinery.
06:01:59 <Sukoshi`> そんあことか。。。面白そう。
06:02:04 <pikhq> Bringing you such delights as the phrase "computer science". . .
06:02:24 <Sukoshi`> でも、私は理学を勉強したいから、あれが無駄だ。
06:03:21 <Sukoshi`> ちなみに、作るはもうふさわしいと思う。
06:04:38 <pikhq> 話してはちょっとむずかしい。よくkitenを作るんだ。……
06:04:38 <Sukoshi`> 今の見える狙いはUC Berkeleyだ。この町の辺りであるって、お金持ちのない人で優しくて、そんあわけだ。
06:04:59 <Sukoshi`> kitenを作る?
06:05:46 <Sukoshi`> さあ、今出ていくねぇぇぇぇ。。。さようなら、みんあ!!!
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06:06:25 <pikhq> KDEの日本語のじしょ。
06:06:30 <pikhq> くそ。
06:06:49 <pikhq> Okay, I'll stop with the Japanese.
06:06:59 <bsmntbombdood> what were you guys talking about
06:07:06 <pikhq> College.
06:07:37 <pikhq> If you want an exact translation, it'll take me a while. . .
06:07:43 <pikhq> So many kanji that I don't know. . .
06:08:08 <bsmntbombdood> hrumph
06:08:19 <bsmntbombdood> should i listen to bach or falconer?
06:08:44 <pikhq> Yes.
06:09:16 <bsmntbombdood> you fail
06:09:50 <bsmntbombdood> what is the right way to say what i wanted to?
06:10:08 <oerjan> which one of ...
06:10:34 <pikhq> Realise that all of us code.
06:10:48 <pikhq> "Which: Bach xor Falconer?"
06:11:26 <pikhq> Bach, humbug!
06:14:29 <bsmntbombdood> i think i'm going to go with ethanol instead of music
06:19:08 <oerjan> well, since so many people have stolen from Bach, it is not impossible that you could do both in one...
06:27:26 <bsmntbombdood> mplayer 1/* 2/*
06:27:29 <bsmntbombdood> grrr
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08:32:59 <calamari> .
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10:53:24 <SimonRC> pikhq: how do you know Japanese?
11:04:14 <SimonRC> pikhq: also, what is the line-ending type in that C code?
11:04:32 <SimonRC> amazingly, PFE doesn't auto-detect
11:06:18 <SimonRC> and you can't put braces in an expression
11:12:49 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: I think you mean "Erdős", not "air dish"
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11:40:00 <oklopol> (bsmntbombdood) should i listen to bach or falconer? <<< we have two or's in finnish just for that distinction!
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13:58:56 <Tritonio> good day everyone..
14:15:23 * SimonRC has lunch
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14:22:12 <oklopol> g'day
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15:15:32 <pikhq> SimonRC: I've been learning Japanese at my high school.
15:15:43 <pikhq> It's standard UNIX style.
15:15:58 <pikhq> And thanks to GNU C, I *can* put braces in an expression.
15:16:32 * pikhq is almost glad he didn't try GNU's dynamically-sized arrays
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17:40:03 <ehird`> hi
17:47:04 <SimonRC> urgh
17:47:12 <ehird`> gurgurgurguh?
17:47:40 <SimonRC> job-hunting
17:47:49 <SimonRC> I am getting flooded with requests
17:48:08 <ehird`> PING requests? or VERSION requests? ;)
17:54:55 <SimonRC> :roll:
17:55:03 <ehird`> :D
17:55:19 <SimonRC> question: how to do an eye-rolling smiley
17:55:27 <ehird`> hmm
17:55:32 <ehird`> there is no standard, i think
17:55:35 <ehird`> :rolleyes: is what most forums use
17:55:48 <ehird`> 8-) is what msn uses, but that's not an eye roll by any stretch of the imagination
17:55:50 <ehird`> i don't know
17:57:19 <SimonRC> ò_ó <-- ooh
17:57:36 <SimonRC> ó_ò <-- ooh
17:57:38 <ehird`> heh
17:57:43 <ehird`> aha, i know
17:57:45 <ehird`> 8_8
17:57:47 <ehird`> kind of.
17:58:01 <ehird`> no, that just looks unconcious
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19:22:23 * SimonRC has food
19:29:03 <bsmntbombdood> hooray
19:30:38 <bsmntbombdood> que typo?
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20:56:34 <ehird`> hello
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21:01:32 <oklopol> hy
21:02:15 <bsmntbombdood> boo
21:03:01 <bsmntbombdood> lol http://zelmor.uw.hu/blog/best_h_doujin_ending_ever.jpg
21:05:08 <oklopol> the boys were having such fun
21:05:33 <oklopol> how rude
21:05:45 <ehird`> god pidgin is retarded
21:05:59 <ehird`> how on earth do I enable flashing of windows without making it do it for irc too?!
21:06:14 <bsmntbombdood> uh...use a real irc client
21:06:47 <bsmntbombdood> Et oui l'été s'éloignant petit à petit, le travail revient au galop donc je vous ai concocté de nombreuses surprises donc un nouveaux sites qui va vous permettre de faire de nombreuse rencontre sex!!!
21:07:03 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: i can't be arsed; i am hardly ever on this machine
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22:08:00 <ehird`> PINMG
22:17:54 <bsmntbombdood> PONMG
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22:18:48 <ehird`> THME NEMW STANDARWD SPECIFIEWS ALWL WORDWS MUSWT HAVWE "W" IWN THWE SECONWD-LASWT POSITIOWN
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23:09:05 <bsmntbom1dood> cd ~/m/in/bp/
23:09:14 <bsmntbom1dood> oops
23:09:36 <ehird`> you have very concise dir names
23:09:52 <bsmntbom1dood> tab completion
23:10:12 <ehird`> i always press tab after each dir name, it's a habit
23:10:18 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
23:10:21 <ehird`> ~/m<tab>in<tab>bp<tab>
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2007-10-08
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01:52:58 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/misc/architecture-specification/ <- I think I'm going to build a simplified version of this in a logic simulator
01:53:45 <RodgerTheGreat> mainly I think the whole address or constant thing is unnecessary and adds a fair amount of complexity. It's better to just store constants at memory locations
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01:57:31 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: you there?
01:58:09 <RodgerTheGreat> is it assumed that a MISC machine uses two's complement for numbers?
01:59:22 <bsmntbombdood> it doesn't matter i don't think
02:18:12 <RodgerTheGreat> hm
02:22:25 <bsmntbombdood> except maybe with printing
04:02:42 <bsmntbombdood> everybody here should go to ##crypto-forum and talk about anonymous digital currency
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04:41:49 <oklopol> has safalra been here?
04:42:13 <oerjan> not since i joined
04:42:21 <oklopol> when did you join?
04:42:36 <oerjan> 23:33
04:42:41 <oerjan> now 5:42
04:42:52 <oklopol> i see
04:43:11 <oklopol> now for a completely different subject
04:43:18 <oklopol> what was the first time you joined
04:43:36 <oklopol> and out of curiosity, has safalra been here *at all* during that time?
04:43:54 <oklopol> i should read all the logs
04:44:16 <oerjan> you can google at site:tunes.org
04:45:02 <oerjan> er, the first hit is <calamari> is Safalra ever on irc?
04:45:12 <oerjan> doesn't look good
04:45:16 <oklopol> hehe :P
04:45:35 <oklopol> indeed you can, i never remember google has that tag
04:46:06 <oerjan> you can also do it from the advanced search menu
04:47:48 <bsmntbombdood> who's safalra?
04:48:52 <oerjan> http://www.safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/
04:48:58 <oklopol> the creator of sansism
04:50:11 <oklopol> hmm, misc is also safalra's?
04:50:28 <oklopol> well, time to do some coffee ->
04:50:31 <oerjan> not seen on the wiki since 21 Oct 2006
04:50:33 <oklopol> (yes, do.)
04:51:08 <oerjan> but the website has been updated since
04:54:10 <oerjan> stalking further, he edited wikipedia yesterday...
04:57:42 <bsmntbombdood> he urinates an average of 6 times per day, and spend 3 hours per day browsing digg
04:58:02 <oerjan> that on his website?
05:02:33 <oklopol> what? how dare he exist and not be on this channel simultaneously :|
05:03:22 <oklopol> i mean, he must've existed yesterday then :|
05:08:50 <oerjan> eep, webcomic time!
05:21:33 <pikhq> I vote today's xkcd "kick ass". In favor?
05:22:00 <oerjan> in effect, yes
05:22:24 <oerjan> how many hobbies does he have, anyhow? :D
05:23:19 <pikhq> Xkcd (the guy) needs many of them.
05:23:36 <pikhq> As if running a webcomic and an IRC network weren't enough. :p
05:23:57 <oerjan> i guess it takes his mind off the velociraptors.
05:24:17 <pikhq> No, it fuels his paranoia.
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05:59:51 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: it made me wiktionary effect and affect
06:00:37 <bsmntbombdood> and i still don't get it :(
06:00:44 <bsmntbombdood> i'm a failure
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06:07:57 <g4lt-mordant> bsmntbombdood, try oed or m-w.com
06:09:05 <bsmntbombdood> oed is subscription only
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07:51:59 <GregorR> bsmntbom1dood: When you affect something, it causes an effect.
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18:59:35 <lament> "their"?
18:59:50 <ehird`> yes
18:59:52 <ehird`> it was in /me
18:59:57 <ehird`> "ais523 apologises for taking longer than their quit message 2 hours ago suggested"
19:00:07 <ehird`> also, you're 6 hours late.
19:03:28 <lament> i don't think it's grammatically appropriate to use "their" with a specific personal name (ais523)
19:03:41 <lament> although ais523 could refer to a group of people, i suppose.
19:04:00 <ehird`> that's the singular-they issue
19:04:16 <ehird`> personally I am in favour of singular they/their - I don't like gender-specific pronouns.
19:04:29 <ehird`> and "hir" and all of those are just ridiculous
19:04:44 <lament> yes, i don't think singular "they" is appropriate with a specific person name
19:04:58 <lament> "I was talking to my mother, and they told me..."
19:05:09 <ehird`> "Blah-blah walked to the store. They bought a dollar for two dollars."
19:05:24 <bsmntbombdood> lololo
19:05:29 <ehird`> "Blah-blah was walking to the store, when they bought a dollar for two dollars"
19:05:30 <ehird`> hmm
19:05:32 <ehird`> you might be right
19:05:33 <bsmntbombdood> exchanging a laptop for a prostate massage
19:12:06 <lament> good for you
19:16:37 <RodgerTheGreat> I think the medical community should encourage self-treppanation. With a little luck, all the morons will kill themselves with electric drills! http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/
19:19:02 <bsmntbombdood> darn, bmezine is blocked here
19:19:51 <RodgerTheGreat> basically a guy who rants about the benefits of treppanation- " I read about the supposed de-conditioning properties. I read about more parts of the brain working simultaneously as there would be more blood up there to help this happen. The arguments for it all seemed to be quite lengthy, quite detailed, thought out and researched, and very intelligent."
19:20:04 <RodgerTheGreat> and then does it in his own home
19:20:20 <RodgerTheGreat> and then writes diary entries about the "new sensations" he feels
19:20:45 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: what the fuck.
19:20:46 <RodgerTheGreat> and then months later reflects and realizes it was probably due to the placebo effect
19:21:54 <RodgerTheGreat> overall, pretty funny stuff
19:22:04 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: are people really this retarded?
19:22:13 <bsmntbombdood> wouldn't you have to fuck with the brain and not just the skull to do that
19:22:24 * bsmntbombdood is reading it
19:22:29 <RodgerTheGreat> I like how it never occurs to him that he could have easily pithed himself or contracted a fatal meningitis infection.
19:22:47 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: it appears so
19:22:48 <ehird`> i have a headache right now, maybe if my brain could breathe the outside air it would go away
19:22:53 <ehird`> brb, going to smash open my skull
19:22:54 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
19:23:25 <RodgerTheGreat> I also love the "most ancient form of surgery -> most effective kind of surgery!" logic
19:23:45 <RodgerTheGreat> surely if they did it in ancient times, it must be a good idea and safe medical practice!
19:24:00 <ehird`> that's why acupuncture is still listened two
19:24:05 <ehird`> "THEY WERE IN TUNE WITH THE FORCES"
19:24:08 <bsmntbombdood> jeez, stop using words i have to look up
19:24:16 <ehird`> even though they didn't know blood flowed around the body
19:24:23 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: you don't know what acupuncture is?
19:24:42 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: brought to you by the same kooks that brought you homeopathy: well, no, it was the Chinese. But still.
19:25:12 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: no, trepan and pith
19:25:22 <ehird`> ah
19:25:57 <RodgerTheGreat> acupuncture has some demonstrable effects. It kinda works, but we have no idea why. Homeopathy is pointless and retarded, and does nothing in controlled experiments
19:26:32 <ehird`> acupuncture does not work
19:27:35 <lament> nice to see a well-reasoned argument between two experts in the field
19:27:46 <lament> oh wait.. you're both talking out of your ass
19:27:47 <RodgerTheGreat> well, it sure as hell doesn't "realign your chi"
19:28:10 <ehird`> lament: wait, we're both talking out of our asses... acupuncture is quantum? it simultaneously works and doesn't work?
19:28:33 <RodgerTheGreat> I think he just did the equivalent of a [citation needed] on both of us
19:28:38 <RodgerTheGreat> which is a good damn point
19:28:55 <ehird`> /nick ehird`[citation needed]
19:29:01 <lament> ehird`: i don't know if it works or not. I never researched the subject.
19:29:30 <ehird`> lament: they stick incredibly thin needles into your body.
19:30:02 <ehird`> that by itself is just crazy and leads me to believe it wouldn't work; but i have done some minor research and my belief has been reaffirmed
19:31:04 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: this treppanation article is making me feel sick :/
19:31:06 <RodgerTheGreat> alright, let me clarify my arguments here- acupuncture is a rather expansive topic
19:31:53 <lament> ehird`: what about traditional medicine? They make you swallow little round things.
19:32:22 <lament> and that's somehow supposed to make you get better?
19:32:25 <ehird`> lament: except that's a really vague definition, whereas the above is a pretty accurate description of acupuncture
19:33:04 <RodgerTheGreat> specifically, clinical trials have shown that acupuncture has some success at pain relief, and works at least better than no treatment or a placebo.
19:33:08 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab001351.html
19:33:58 <lament> ehird`: a pretty accurate description of medical drugs is "they feed you tiny amounts of chemicals".
19:34:09 <bsmntbombdood> jeebus
19:34:17 <lament> as opposed to "they stick incredibly thin needles into your body"
19:34:24 <lament> i can't decide which one sounds more looney
19:34:48 <ehird`> lament: so, what do you do when you get ill, exactly?
19:35:41 <lament> spend too much time on IRC
19:35:55 <ehird`> that actually sounds pretty reasonable
19:36:03 <ehird`> let's set up a foundation
19:38:52 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl folks
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20:25:52 <oklopol> attitude cures sicknesses, not medicine
20:26:19 <ehird`> oklopol: i hope you realise we are joking :-)
20:26:37 <oklopol> of course, like anyone would believe drugs help people
20:26:49 <ehird`> heh
20:27:16 <oklopol> this is part of my newly-found "i do not believe in X" philosophy
20:27:23 <oklopol> X
20:27:26 <oklopol> is a var there
20:27:27 <oklopol> of course
20:27:42 <ehird`> oklopol: apply that to ~(P&~P)
20:27:51 <ehird`> mwahaha! I have broken your logic!
20:27:56 <ehird`> unless you don't believe in logic.
20:28:06 <ehird`> in which case, i claim that "I do not believe in X" philosophy is false!
20:28:13 <ehird`> And you cannot argue, since P&~P can be true!
20:28:25 <oklopol> i do believe in logic, i just don't believe i applied that right.
20:28:34 <oklopol> when asserting that proposition
20:28:36 <oklopol> err
20:28:38 <oklopol> interpreting
20:28:40 <oklopol> whatever
20:28:46 <oklopol> something, anyway.
20:30:09 <oklopol> that is by its very nature a very paradoxical philosophy, i have to live with that
20:30:30 <oklopol> hmm... i feel like a family guy
20:36:47 <g4lt-mordant> you look like stewie though
20:39:20 <oklopol> i have no idea what the kid says half the time
20:39:25 <oklopol> wish i knew english...
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12:31:12 <SimonRC> ooh, some new people
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13:16:47 <oklopol> yeah, new people are pretty hot
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14:41:15 <RodgerTheGreat> oklopol: I can just see it now...
14:41:48 <RodgerTheGreat> "Hey there- wow, that nick is pretty sexy there- I like the way you type words. Your diction is incredible"
15:05:30 <bsmntbom1dood> you know it
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16:05:39 <SimonRC> class baz { public baz baz; public baz baz(baz baz) { return baz; } }
16:05:40 <SimonRC> fudge: I forget that methods are non-first-class in java
16:05:42 <SimonRC> oops
16:05:45 <SimonRC> "baz baz = new baz(); baz.baz = baz; baz.baz(baz);"
16:34:19 <ehird`> back
16:34:46 <ehird`> SimonRC: you are crazy
16:38:23 <SimonRC> I was just testing
16:38:57 <ehird`> :)
16:39:41 <SimonRC> "public static void blessed greased +2 main(String[] args)"
16:42:31 <ehird`> i wonder what the craziest java code ever is
16:42:32 <ehird`> i want to see it
16:43:13 <SimonRC> I saw a Haskell-to-Java translation once.
16:43:20 <ehird`> What.
16:43:31 <SimonRC> every line had, like, 80 characters in it
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17:15:43 <ehird`> http://userstyles.org/styles/588 I didn't think you could make reddit any more minimal...
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22:57:47 * SimonRC goes to bed
22:58:09 * ehird` bed to goes
22:58:12 <ehird`> :p
23:06:55 <bsmntbombdood> omg ur funnay!
23:07:34 <ehird`> YESOI OIAM FUNNAYESTthing everUIFTOYUDONTACCEPTMYFUNNAYDIE
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04:29:51 <immibis> ?????does anyone else see F at the front of this text or the end? ?dne eht ro txet siht fo tnorf eht ta F ees esle enoyna seod FFF
04:32:05 <lament> yes.
04:32:14 <immibis> front or back?
04:32:26 <immibis> three F's i mean (FFF)
04:32:32 <lament> end
04:32:39 <immibis> i see five question marks, the sentences, and FFF at the end.
04:32:40 <lament> question marks at the front
04:32:44 <lament> yes
04:32:58 <immibis> irssi is a text client? probably thats why not.
04:33:39 <immibis> i pasted the unicode-control-characters-for-right-to-left-that-were-in-front-of-the-cyrillic-combining-millions-sign-that-someone-put-control-characters-in-front-of-to-reverse-text.
04:34:24 <lament> cyrillic combining millions sign?
04:34:26 <pikhq> I do believe that it's my terminal that's fucking that up, not irssi.
04:34:37 <pikhq> In theory, my terminal does Unicode.
04:34:41 <immibis> commas in a circle.
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04:34:46 <pikhq> In practice, it doesn't do that. ;)
04:35:05 <immibis> or maybe icechat didn't like it, and actually sent question marks to the channel instead of the control codes.
04:35:08 <immibis> !raw nick toboge
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04:36:22 <immibis> !binascii 11100010 01000000 10101110 00100010 00100011 00100100
04:36:23 <toboge> â@®"#$
04:36:26 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:36:28 <immibis> ?
04:36:56 <immibis> that *was* the binary utf-8 encoding, right?
04:38:39 <immibis> hexadecimal utf-8 encoding is E2 80 AE D2 89
04:39:48 <immibis> !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001
04:39:49 <toboge> ‮҉
04:39:50 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:40:31 <immibis> hmm...icechat doesn't appear to do utf-8.
04:43:28 <immibis> does anyone else see a circle of commas?
04:52:19 <immibis> ?testing
04:52:29 <immibis> !binascii 11010010 10001001
04:52:30 <toboge> ҉
04:52:32 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:52:43 * immibis evidently needs to use another client
04:55:24 <g4lt-mordant> toboge, :þ
04:55:38 <immibis> i can't see that unicode character. what is it?
04:55:54 <g4lt-mordant> immibis, it's a circle of dots
04:56:00 <immibis> ok.
04:57:24 <immibis> !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001
04:57:24 <toboge> ‮҉
04:57:26 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:57:52 <immibis> !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001 00100001 00100010 00100011 00100100 00100101 00100110 00100111 00101000 00101001
04:57:52 <toboge> ‮҉!"#$%&'()
04:57:54 <EgoBot> Huh?
04:58:30 <immibis> !binascii 11100010 10000000 10101110 11010010 10001001 00110001 00110010 00110011 00110100 00110101 00110110 00110111 00111000 00111001
04:58:31 <toboge> ‮҉123456789
04:58:34 <EgoBot> Huh?
05:24:29 <oklopol> ‮҉ coolest char ever
05:24:34 <oklopol> whoops :P
05:24:57 <immibis> it's 2. right-to-left override and combining-cyrillic-millions-sign
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14:14:50 <RodgerTheGreat> 'morning, everyone
14:15:02 <ehird`> hello
14:15:12 <RodgerTheGreat> 'sup, ehird` ?
14:15:40 <ehird`> [insert something witty, like "[insert something witty here]" here]
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14:41:43 <ehird`> wow
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14:42:02 <ehird`> he actually has put up a gallery on wetriffs
14:44:23 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/terrible_code.png
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14:44:51 <ehird`> its a terrible way to do a nob
14:44:55 <ehird`> but i can understand it
14:45:05 <Sgeo> nob?
14:45:28 <Sgeo> the terrible part was the if(TRUE)s.. which were MY fault
14:45:29 <ehird`> nop
14:45:38 <ehird`> if (TRUE) will be a nop if your compiler doesn't optimize
14:45:44 <Sgeo> Because I was too lazy to unindent
14:45:45 <ehird`> its multithreaded, gl code, so nops are useful
14:46:06 <Sgeo> And didn't realize that Shift-Tab, in fact, worked, if lines were selected
14:46:10 <Sgeo> Nothing to do with nops
14:54:39 <ehird`> http://stupidfilter.org/wiki/ best software project of 2007
14:54:48 <ehird`> i mean, it filters stupid things! rock.
14:55:00 <ehird`> http://stupidfilter.org/random.php random stupidity from their database.
15:15:32 * oklopol has made the most verbose truth table generator ever: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p443156611.txt
15:15:42 <oklopol> oh
15:15:46 <oklopol> sorry, that's not it :)
15:15:59 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p356232664.txt
15:16:12 <ehird`> heh
15:16:18 <oklopol> for (-q&p)|(q&-r) that is :P
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15:16:30 <ehird`> - = not?
15:16:48 <oklopol> with more variables the "verbose" mode is quite a flood...
15:16:49 <ehird`> P and Q should be uppercase! :P
15:16:50 <oklopol> yeah
15:17:03 <ehird`> that should be (~Q&P)|(Q&~R)
15:17:08 <oklopol> i guess that might be nicer
15:17:18 <oklopol> i'll make ~ an optional negation
15:17:29 <ehird`> maybe even <> instead of (), but that's only because I've been reading Godel, Escher, Bach, which uses it
15:17:37 <ehird`> <~Q&P>|<Q&~R>
15:17:39 <ehird`> err wait
15:17:40 <oklopol> i would've done ^ and v, but v is a letter...
15:17:40 <ehird`> that's
15:17:43 <ehird`> <<~Q&P>|<Q&~R>>
15:17:56 <oklopol> i love < and > as parens
15:18:19 <oklopol> <<<>> <<>>>
15:18:22 <ehird`> in GEB's Propositional Logic notation, and thus TNT, & and | must be encoded in brackets
15:18:25 <ehird`> X&Y -> NO
15:18:30 <ehird`> <X&Y> -> YES
15:18:37 <ehird`> this makes parsing it trivial, of cours
15:18:44 <oklopol> err why?
15:18:46 <oklopol> oh
15:18:51 <ehird`> because no infix ambiguousness
15:18:52 <oklopol> you mean X&Y&Z is illegal?
15:18:55 <ehird`> yeah
15:18:59 <ehird`> that's <<X&Y>&Z>
15:19:03 <oklopol> well then it does, true
15:19:14 <ehird`> its notable because it can be implemented as typographical substitution rules
15:19:20 <oklopol> but i kinda already made the parser, so... i don't feel like wasting it! :D
15:19:34 <oklopol> hmm, i see
15:20:06 <ehird`> dunno what to use for => though
15:20:08 <ehird`> since > is a bracket
15:20:14 <oklopol> well, i just made that for school, we have to make a lot of tables, and i'm not going to do that manually, no matter how much the teacher cries.
15:20:17 <ehird`> in the book its a glyph
15:20:29 <oklopol> you can just do greedy tokenizing
15:20:36 <oklopol> but it can be pretty confusing
15:20:48 <oklopol> well, luckily = is no operator
15:20:56 <oklopol> <=>>
15:21:04 <oklopol> err... that's illegal anyway :)
15:21:20 <ehird`> = doesn't mean imply
15:21:22 <ehird`> = means equals
15:21:46 <ehird`> oh well, hooray for unicode:
15:22:50 <ehird`> <<~Q&P>⇒~<P⇒Q>>
15:23:04 <ehird`> "not Q and P implies P does not imply Q"
15:23:07 <oklopol> i have no idea what your point was
15:23:14 <oklopol> @ that equals thing
15:23:19 <ehird`> meh
15:23:21 <oklopol> ah
15:23:24 <oklopol> equivalence?
15:23:27 <oklopol> i'm using <=>
15:23:40 <ehird`> <=> is not in propositional logic...
15:23:50 <ehird`> afaik
15:23:51 <oklopol> ...
15:24:01 <oklopol> it's just an arbitrary binary operator
15:24:08 <ehird`> alright
15:24:15 <ehird`> oh, i forgot, GEB doesn't use & and |
15:24:18 <oklopol> you can use any operator that has to do with bits
15:24:29 <oklopol> i mean, any F bool bool -> bool
15:24:40 <oklopol> random notation there...
15:24:44 <oklopol> but anyways
15:24:49 <ehird`> <<~Q∧P>⇒~<P⇒Q>>
15:25:01 <ehird`> (∧ = and, ∨ = or in TNT)
15:25:09 <oklopol> hmm... python prolly knows unicode
15:25:10 <oklopol> ?
15:25:24 <oklopol> i could have those there optionally too
15:25:29 <ehird`> interestingly, iirc it does not use ¬ for negation, but ~
15:25:30 <ehird`> also
15:25:35 <ehird`> note that ^ is not ∧
15:25:40 <ehird`> and v is not ∨
15:25:42 <oklopol> i see a lot of boxes.
15:25:49 <ehird`> pff
15:25:51 <ehird`> get a unicode client
15:25:55 <oklopol> :D
15:26:00 <ehird`> hmm
15:26:04 <ehird`> rewrite the sentence replacing boxes with []
15:26:06 <ehird`> and send it over
15:26:11 <ehird`> so i can point you to what symbls those are
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15:26:46 <oklopol> all except the negation symbol
15:26:50 <oklopol> ¬ i see
15:27:04 <oklopol> <<~Q∧P>⇒~<P⇒Q>> i don't see these though
15:27:04 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_symbols logical conjunction for the ^ one
15:27:10 <ehird`> logical disjunction for the v one
15:27:18 <ehird`> i was saying that they are not the same, although they look alike
15:27:21 <ehird`> they are unicode symbols
15:27:39 <ehird`> Alternatively: set your client to utf-8
15:27:43 <oklopol> yay more boxes!
15:27:46 <ehird`> wtf
15:27:50 <oklopol> this time in the browser1
15:27:52 <ehird`> get a browser that doesn't suck
15:27:55 <oklopol> :DD
15:28:02 <ehird`> what are you using, lynx?!
15:28:05 <oklopol> i'll try, wait
15:28:07 <ehird`> heck i think lynx supports unicode
15:28:17 <oklopol> ie is the default
15:28:23 <ehird`> why are you using ie
15:29:06 <oklopol> it's the default
15:29:18 <ehird`> that's a good reason?
15:30:08 <oklopol> i don't eften have to see unicode characters -> easier to let it be the default.
15:30:12 <oklopol> *often
15:30:19 <ehird`> IE sucks in more ways than unicode
15:30:30 <oklopol> i see.
15:30:55 <ehird`> seriously, IE is not a reasonable choice in this age
15:31:27 <oklopol> err... okay
15:31:36 <oklopol> i don't see why, but i believe you
15:32:17 <oklopol> i won't use firefox before i see one reason myself, though, unless you make it my default browser
15:32:26 <oklopol> or someone else, i'm not gonna.
15:32:50 <ehird`> i use safari on my mac
15:32:52 <ehird`> opera on my pc
15:33:01 <oklopol> mozilla does not use my default font for the url bar, why?
15:33:11 <ehird`> yes it does?
15:33:34 <oklopol> i see, well, perhaps i've chosen a bad font by accident, and ie just happens to know what i like :)
15:33:42 <oklopol> i have not touched any options.
15:34:25 <oklopol> anyways, i do not care at all which browser i'm using, as far as i'm conserned, they all suck ass.
15:34:31 <oklopol> *concerned
15:34:48 <ehird`> you think everything sucks ass, though
15:34:53 <ehird`> especially if anything is - god forbid - open source
15:35:08 <oklopol> i see
15:35:15 <oklopol> i agree with the first one
15:35:27 <oklopol> "everything sucks" is a good starting point
15:35:36 <ehird`> no, not really
15:35:53 <oklopol> it is, and really, let's not discuss this, i do not care for this stuff
15:36:14 <ehird`> you started the conversation... i think
15:36:18 <oklopol> nope
15:36:19 <oklopol> you did
15:36:22 <oklopol> well
15:36:40 <oklopol> of course i should've known i can't mention i have IE without starting one ;)
15:37:26 <oklopol> (17:29:04) (oklopol) it's the default
15:37:26 <oklopol> (17:29:16) (ehird`) that's a good reason?
15:37:28 <oklopol> about this
15:37:42 <oklopol> it's not a good reason, but there doesn't need to be one, the browsers are the same.
15:37:48 <oklopol> there's no crucial difference
15:37:56 <oklopol> i guess i'm starting now, though :P
15:37:58 <oklopol> sorry about that
15:38:28 <ehird`> there IS a crucial difference
15:38:30 <ehird`> the rendering engine
15:38:32 <oklopol> i'll get back to coding, there's still some stuff i need to add to that thingie...
15:38:35 <oklopol> hmm
15:38:43 <oklopol> whuz that?
15:38:51 <oklopol> ah
15:39:20 <oklopol> you mean the thingie that chooses the location of different objects on a page?
15:39:23 <ehird`> if you don't know what a rendering engine is then don't say "well they're basically the same" because you don't know anything about browsers
15:39:36 <ehird`> it's the thing that turns the parse tree into the page.
15:39:41 <ehird`> it is EVERYTHING to a browser
15:39:46 <oklopol> well i know what it is then.
15:39:55 <ehird`> IE's is broken, breaks the spec in about 10,000 ways, and has lovely little microsoftisms
15:40:06 <ehird`> gecko (mozilla's) isn't perfect, but it's far better than that
15:40:20 <oklopol> well it may be bad, i've never seen it fail though
15:40:24 <ehird`> webkit (apple's open source engine, descended from KHTML (konqueror's)) is probably the best around
15:40:34 <ehird`> and you have't seen it fail because web developers have to prance around until IE accepts it
15:40:39 <ehird`> its a mess
15:41:05 <oklopol> trues, i've made a few pages myself (very few)
15:41:10 <oklopol> hell getting ie to work
15:41:39 <oklopol> okay, you win, i do agree that's a good reason to use a better browser, in theory.
15:41:54 <oklopol> also, i think piracy is wrong
15:42:00 <oklopol> much more than that browser thing
15:42:05 <oklopol> but i do it anyway
15:42:17 <oklopol> i'll start using firefox right after i stop piracy
15:42:25 <oklopol> good deal?
15:42:49 <oklopol> i don't do much with either
15:42:50 <oklopol> though
15:43:58 <oklopol> s/i stop piracy/i stop doing piracy
15:44:51 <oklopol> has anyone set Tkinter up for Python CE?
15:44:58 <oklopol> or some other graphics library
15:45:01 <oklopol> hmm, #python!
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16:43:01 <RodgerTheGreat> programming with postscript is fun.
16:43:04 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192030960.html
16:43:16 <ehird`> not nearly as fun as SYNTAXLESS!
16:43:41 <RodgerTheGreat> I beg to differ. PostScript is pretty fuckin' sweet
16:43:59 <ehird`> syntaxless has no syntax!
16:44:12 <ehird`> it's like forth, but it has lambdas
16:44:12 <RodgerTheGreat> postscript has awesome syntax!
16:44:15 <ehird`> and it's cooler
16:44:23 <RodgerTheGreat> it's like forth but... yeah. like forth.
16:44:40 <ehird`> forth doesn't have lambdas
16:44:47 <ehird`> :UNNAMED does not count
16:45:05 <oklopol> :UNNAMED is some sick smiley
16:45:28 <oklopol> well i guess that could be a beard
16:45:31 <ehird`> it's :U with a very long neck made of an accordian
16:45:42 <oklopol> ah, that's more likely, true
16:45:55 <oklopol> jack-in-a-box man!
16:46:10 <oklopol> i have to reboot, nothing works :<<
16:46:15 <ehird`> evidently irc does
16:46:30 <oklopol> well yeah, it always works
16:46:48 <RodgerTheGreat> lol- I just realized a downside to coding in postscript- it's a little bit of a trick to print out your sourcecode
16:47:16 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: SEE ME
16:47:18 <ehird`> oh wait, that's forth :P
16:47:36 <ehird`> : QUINE SEE ME ; has to be the funniest bit of code ever
16:47:56 <RodgerTheGreat> forth has really nifty ideas, but I find the syntax rather ugly. Postscript has very pretty syntax
16:48:05 <ehird`> syntaxless is tons of fun
16:48:11 <ehird`> [ ... ] is a lambda, but that's not syntax :P
16:48:27 <ehird`> [ is just an operator which does some internal tricks
16:48:29 <ehird`> ] resets them
16:48:41 <ehird`> you can bind lambdas to names to make them operators
16:48:54 <ehird`> [ 2 + ] ' addtwo bind
16:49:00 <ehird`> then you can do 2 addtwo and get 4 on the stack
16:49:07 <ehird`> you can get the lambda bound to an operator with \
16:49:10 <oklopol> if there can be a program, there must be a syntax
16:49:14 <ehird`> \ addtwo gets you what [ 2 + ] would
16:49:27 <ehird`> ! calls the lambda on the stack
16:49:28 <oklopol> nesting is not required for "having a syntax"
16:49:30 <EgoBot> Huh?
16:49:40 <ehird`> 2 \ addtwo ! is the same as 2 addtwo
16:50:00 <ehird`> oklopol: well, it kind of has a syntax
16:50:09 <ehird`> oklopol: it has a LEXICAL syntax, but not any more layers of syntax
16:50:20 <oklopol> for a while i thought you were pasting that, but i guess it was just your fast fingers :)
16:50:28 <ehird`> the lexical syntax simply says that words are seperated by whitespace
16:50:29 <oklopol> now that i look at the irregular time tags
16:50:30 <ehird`> and that's it
16:50:42 <ehird`> heh, my fast fingers
16:50:42 <ehird`> :P
16:51:07 <RodgerTheGreat> bbl folks
16:51:12 <oklopol> bhye
16:51:16 <ehird`> bye
16:51:16 <ehird`> :)
16:51:22 <RodgerTheGreat> (%&%#$ ungodly boring statistics class)
16:51:37 <ehird`> oklopol: i'll write a short program in syntaxless
16:52:36 <oklopol> i'll read it if it's less than a page
16:53:17 <ehird`> http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192031591.html
16:53:20 <ehird`> that outputs:
16:53:23 <ehird`> I say: Hello, world!
16:53:29 <oklopol> reboot now, i'll read teh logz
16:53:33 <oklopol> soon back
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17:06:39 <ehird`> he's taking awhile
17:07:42 -!- oklopol has joined.
17:10:05 <ehird`> wb
17:10:07 <ehird`> oklopol: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192031661.html
17:10:10 <ehird`> another program
17:10:16 <ehird`> should give you a general feel of syntaxless
17:10:26 <ehird`> err
17:10:29 <ehird`> wait
17:10:31 <ehird`> that's wrong
17:10:31 <ehird`> let me fix it
17:10:45 <ehird`> http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192032638.html fixed version
17:10:51 <ehird`> should give you a general feel of syntaxless.
17:11:37 <oklopol> is . catenation?
17:11:49 <ehird`> no
17:11:51 <ehird`> output
17:11:54 <ehird`> like forths output
17:11:58 <ehird`> basically:
17:12:08 <ehird`> . pops a string off the stack and dumps it to stdout
17:12:31 <ehird`> of course it'll be defined something like: [ STDOUT file. ] ' . bind
17:12:37 <ehird`> ', of course, quotes a name
17:12:58 <oklopol> ah of course
17:13:15 <ehird`> the . . might be confusing
17:13:16 <ehird`> it's:
17:13:19 <ehird`> " Hello, " . .
17:13:23 <oklopol> " Hello, " . . " !" <<< this is just how you might do the catenation with your other language
17:13:29 <oklopol> if . was catenation.
17:13:29 <ehird`> if the stack is " world" greet:
17:13:38 <ehird`> " world" " Hello, "
17:13:38 <oklopol> i know stack-based programming :)
17:13:41 <ehird`> :P
17:13:42 <ehird`> alright
17:13:48 <ehird`> it's just confused some stack-based programmers
17:13:50 -!- [1]shava has joined.
17:13:54 <ehird`> possibly not very good ones, hehe
17:14:06 -!- [1]shava has left (?).
17:14:44 <oklopol> my first language was stack-based, after that i've considered it too trivial; now that i've realized parsing is actually pretty easy, i might start making stack-based languages again
17:15:02 <ehird`> syntaxless does not really involve any parsing
17:15:10 <oklopol> well yeah, i know
17:15:15 <ehird`> it has one measly, tiny rule of lexical analysis that is so minimal you could barely call it a rule
17:15:18 <ehird`> :-)
17:15:27 <oklopol> that was a completely off-topic sentence :)
17:15:34 <oklopol> split(" ")
17:15:45 <ehird`> well, no, that doesn't listen to tabs and newlines
17:16:03 <oklopol> don't you just love it when you make a logger bot, and it logs for 9 days and then suddenly doesn't :D
17:16:12 <oklopol> ah trues
17:17:50 <oklopol> okay, what's \?
17:17:52 <oklopol> "\"
17:18:06 <oklopol> now that i actually read it through :P
17:18:20 <ehird`> \ is an operator that reads a word forward and returns the lambda that is bound to the operator named by the word
17:18:32 <ehird`> so, if you have [ X ] ' Y bind, \ Y returns [ X ]
17:18:45 <ehird`> basically it's how you pass around functions as arguments.
17:18:48 <ehird`> err, operators
17:19:02 <ehird`> because, of course, greet-world say would call greet-world then call say
17:19:14 <ehird`> \ greet-world say puts greet-world's lambda on the stack and calls say
17:19:52 <oklopol> i see
17:19:57 <oklopol> what calls greet-world?
17:21:31 <ehird`> say
17:21:40 <ehird`> ! calls a lambda on the stack
17:21:42 <EgoBot> Huh?
17:21:46 <ehird`> here, i'll step-by-step it in a paste
17:23:25 <ehird`> http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1192033400.html
17:23:39 <ehird`> x {...} is "x ran, and produced this subtree"
17:23:49 <ehird`> x : y is "x ran, and made the stack y"
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17:31:27 <ehird`> oklopol: you get it now? :)
17:39:12 <bsmntbom1dood> okpop
17:39:18 <ehird`> heh
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17:43:45 <oklopol> so it's automatically run at the end of the program?
17:43:52 <ehird`> of course...
17:43:54 <ehird`> it's just code.
17:44:28 <oklopol> well, if you push a lambda, it's not obvious to me it will be executed automatically at the end of the program
17:45:03 <ehird`> it doesn't
17:45:08 <ehird`> \ greet-world say
17:45:14 <ehird`> \ greet-world (Pushes lambda)
17:45:15 <ehird`> say (Calls say)
17:46:30 <oklopol> ah sorry, i thought the exclamation mark in the other lambda is a string too
17:46:40 <oklopol> [ " Hello, " . . " !" . ] ' greet bind
17:46:40 <oklopol> [ " I say: " . ! . ] ' say bind
17:46:45 <oklopol> reading is hard.
17:46:56 <ehird`> ! is an operator
17:47:00 <EgoBot> Huh?
17:47:04 <ehird`> it calls the lambda on the top of the stack
17:47:12 <oerjan> > let x ? y = x+y; infixr 5 ? in 2 ? 3
17:47:25 <ehird`> oerjan: /q lambdabot
17:47:44 <oklopol> oerjan: pay me 5000e and i'll kill him for you
17:48:12 <oklopol> (not ehird`)
17:48:22 <ehird`> I was about to say
17:48:22 <ehird`> :P
17:48:36 * oerjan assumes oklopol is referring to Mr. Wong
17:48:43 <oklopol> yes, precisely
17:49:51 <oklopol> that chinese bastard has gone too far
17:50:31 * ehird` is confused
17:51:10 <oerjan> Mr. Wong Chan-Nel
17:57:16 <ehird`> "...Unix.
17:57:16 <ehird`> Or should that be, *n?x. Nope, doesn't include AIX -- lessee, *x.
17:57:16 <ehird`> Yep, *[Xx], the standard operating system."
17:57:34 <ehird`> Windox
18:23:53 <GregorR> ...?
18:24:12 <GregorR> *[Xx] doesn't include Solaris by the way :P
18:24:48 <GregorR> Nor BSD if you don't say "BSD UNIX"
18:29:46 <GregorR> Also, if I am to assume from "[Xx]" that this was supposed to be regex, that's a bad regex (can't start with a *)
18:30:15 <GregorR> Clearly you want something like /(.*[Xx]|BSD|Solaris)/
18:32:20 <ehird`> its a shell glob
18:32:20 <ehird`> duh
18:32:22 <ehird`> *[Xx]
18:33:05 <GregorR> ls /OSes/*[Xx]
18:33:24 <ehird`> exactly
18:42:29 * ehird` thinks what other esoteric ground he should cover...
18:42:34 <ehird`> I have a kind-of-forth-alike, an APL-alike...
18:53:06 <ehird`> :)
19:01:11 <oklopol> i wonder if anyone ever made a brainfuck-derivative!
19:01:14 <oklopol> what a wacky thought.
19:01:22 <ehird`> bah, how boring
19:02:17 <oklopol> hmm... wonder if i should extend my logic library to solve simple constraint problems with a nicer syntax....
19:02:37 <ehird`> do it!
19:02:45 <bsmntbombdood> blah
19:02:51 <ehird`> an AI might eventually grow out of it, or so Sam Hughes says ;)
19:03:52 <GregorR> FYB :P
19:04:43 <ehird`> fuck yor brane too!
19:05:10 <oklopol> random poll: how many bf-derivatives have you concocted?
19:05:14 * oklopol has done 5
19:05:31 <ehird`> 0
19:05:32 <ehird`> well
19:05:33 <ehird`> 1
19:05:34 <ehird`> jumpfuck
19:09:57 <GregorR> I think only the one.
19:10:03 <GregorR> Or at least, I recall only the one.
19:12:09 <oklopol> i made a "50 brainfuck derivatives" article once, had to invent 3 new
19:12:18 <oklopol> :P
19:12:21 <ehird`> wow
19:12:21 <ehird`> :P
19:12:32 <oklopol> the descriptions were very small.
19:12:48 <oklopol> it was fucking hard trying to understand all of them in one night :D
19:13:11 <oklopol> therefore i'm pretty sure most are wrong, luckily no one will most likely ever read the article
19:18:01 <ehird`> link?
19:18:13 <oklopol> :|
19:18:17 <oklopol> hmm, kay
19:18:35 <oklopol> it's so fulla typos i'm not even gonna start fixing them :D
19:19:41 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/42.htm http://www.vjn.fi/44.htm http://www.vjn.fi/46.htm
19:19:56 <oklopol> if you can decipher any of that, i'm surprised.
19:20:14 <oklopol> it's in three parts, because i was lazy :P
19:21:38 <oklopol> i understand my own descriptions up to the level i could code in many of those, but oh my god that's a lot of typoes and bad grammar :D
19:26:59 <ehird`> hey, idea
19:27:24 <ehird`> making a self-consistent logic and arithmetic system, but that is crazy to intuition and is completely unlike standard logic/maths :)
19:28:26 <oklopol> what do you mean self-consistent?
19:28:39 <ehird`> well
19:28:45 <ehird`> i don't mean actually consistent
19:28:49 <ehird`> Godel has something to say about that
19:28:57 <ehird`> but, you know. not tons of contradictory axioms
19:29:17 <oklopol> contradictory axioms?
19:29:24 <oklopol> can you show me an example?
19:29:28 <ehird`> you know
19:29:33 <ehird`> like having P and ~P as axioms
19:30:00 <oklopol> err i know what it means
19:30:02 <oklopol> i mean
19:30:02 <oerjan> it could be consistent relative to some set theory more powerful than it
19:30:13 <ehird`> oerjan: sure, but you know what i mean
19:35:12 <ehird`> :-)
19:37:57 <ehird`> http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/index.php
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19:41:16 <ehird`> Interesting.
19:41:28 <ehird`> They worked quite well for me.
19:41:38 -!- RedDak has joined.
19:47:35 <SimonRC> yay job yay job yay job
19:48:24 <ehird`> jay yob
19:48:33 <GregorR> Soon enough you'll be saying "This job sucks this job sucks (but at least it gets me paid)"
19:49:07 <SimonRC> Well, the company seems rather nice
19:49:25 <ehird`> that's what they said about microsfot
19:49:59 <oklopol> has anyone read Salo?
19:50:02 * GregorR high-fives ehird` for his favorite tpyo.
19:50:05 <ehird`> heh
19:50:08 <GregorR> (Pseudo-tpyo)
19:50:19 <ehird`> I lvoe tpyos, tehy aer fnu
19:50:39 <SimonRC> they are in 0xF0RD and are full of smart uni grads and make software that is cool AFAICT
19:50:53 <SimonRC> they have 23 people and a table-football table
19:51:10 <SimonRC> oklopol: define "salo"
19:51:20 <GregorR> They're such a good company, they can make 'R' a hexadecimal digit?
19:51:37 <oklopol> The 120 Days of Sodomy
19:51:56 <oklopol> the movie was great, was wondering if the book is as good :P
19:52:08 <GregorR> >_O
19:52:13 <SimonRC> GregorR: well, Oxford (England) looks almost like a hex number
19:52:38 <GregorR> oklopol: WTF I say, WTF.
19:52:51 * oklopol needs to find a separate esoteric sex channel xD
19:53:15 <oklopol> but check it out, great movie
19:54:13 <oklopol> hehe, for a minute i thought someone had said something on #lolcode
19:54:25 <ehird`> why are you in #lolcode, that is the question
19:54:26 <oklopol> but i just pressed #lojban by accident
19:54:39 <oklopol> i'm usually on channels that have been mentioned in my presence
19:55:05 <ehird`> hmm
19:55:05 <oklopol> if i don't reboot for a while, i might make the channel a "favorite", and always autojoin is
19:55:06 <oklopol> *it
19:55:12 <ehird`> who wants to try that crazy maths/logic system thing?
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20:01:02 <SimonRC> I just got the "Java Developer" job from here: http://www.decisionsoft.com/jobs.html
20:01:05 <SimonRC> 24k GBP
20:01:25 <ehird`> they're drunk on xml :o
20:04:44 -!- Cesque has joined.
20:08:52 <oklopol> hi Cesque
20:09:02 <Cesque> hi
20:09:11 <oklopol> you new or passing?
20:09:23 <oklopol> or old and formerly invisible?
20:09:30 <Cesque> new
20:09:46 <Cesque> i probably won't say much
20:09:49 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
20:09:51 <ehird`> NONSENSE
20:09:53 <ehird`> YOU MUST SPEAK FOREVER
20:09:56 <Cesque> lol
20:10:01 <oklopol> a lot of new people here right now, weird :|
20:10:15 <oklopol> Cesque, goffrie, Nucleo i guess
20:10:32 <oklopol> so... not that much.
20:10:35 <Cesque> lol
20:10:47 <ehird`> aren't I new?
20:10:48 <ehird`> >:P
20:10:55 <oklopol> you're old as hell
20:11:02 <ehird`> no...
20:11:11 <ehird`> i arrived here earlier this year
20:11:13 <ehird`> not that earlier either
20:11:15 <ehird`> a few months
20:11:34 <oklopol> you're about as old as me, and that's what i'm comparing with
20:11:35 <oklopol> :P
20:11:41 <Cesque> yeah, but that's still enough to become known
20:11:42 <oklopol> so... as old as possible.
20:11:58 <ehird`> am I lim(x->inf) of age? :P
20:12:32 <oklopol> hmm... in case they invent eternal life, aren't we all
20:12:57 <SimonRC> "On average, the 30 models guessed 51.8519% of your choices correctly with a standard deviation of 4.6731."
20:13:00 <SimonRC> :-S
20:13:11 <SimonRC> I am les predictable that most
20:13:19 <ehird`> you picked using random numbers
20:13:19 <ehird`> :P
20:13:38 <Nucleo> oklopol, don't mind me...
20:14:01 <oklopol> i won't, zuzu_ has been here for ages, and i'm pretty sure it's a bot ;)
20:14:28 <SimonRC> no, i tried to choose the one that looks "nicer"
20:14:37 <oklopol> is that a public test?
20:14:40 <oklopol> *pubic
20:14:40 <ehird`> yes
20:14:44 <ehird`> it's doing some sort of research
20:14:46 <ehird`> it's on reddit
20:14:47 * oklopol wanna try!
20:14:49 <ehird`> i found it interesting
20:14:56 <ehird`> oklopol: just click Continue or whatever
20:15:07 <oklopol> @ reddit?
20:15:12 <ehird`> even if you are under 18, just click the "yes, over" link and put your real age in the Age: field
20:15:15 <ehird`> it allows it
20:15:19 <ehird`> oklopol: ?
20:15:21 <oklopol> i'm SO 18
20:15:21 <ehird`> reddit = reddit.com
20:15:27 <ehird`> hehe
20:15:31 <ehird`> i was saying it for the benefit of anyone else in here
20:16:19 <oklopol> now for the benefit of a certain idiot: where do i press Continue :)
20:16:24 <SimonRC> (I think I ended up pickeing the more "regular" one in each case)
20:16:33 <ehird`> oklopol: Step 2.
20:16:37 <ehird`> It's to the right of step 1.
20:16:52 <oklopol> "step"?
20:16:53 <oklopol> WetRiffs.com (the site I mentioned/set up in xkcd #305) now has guitar-in-shower submissions up. (Gallery is NSFW) (wetriffs.com)
20:16:54 <oklopol> this one?
20:16:58 <ehird`> no?
20:17:00 <oklopol> :P
20:17:18 <oklopol> i see no "steps" on reddit.com
20:17:22 <ehird`> #75
20:17:26 <oklopol> oh
20:17:37 * SimonRC fwaps oklopol
20:17:39 <ehird`> on the page, [1]
20:17:45 <ehird`> click Begin Experiment
20:17:45 <oklopol> :P
20:17:49 <ehird`> profit
20:18:09 <oklopol> 75. :The New Nostradamus - Can a fringe branch of mathematics forecast the future?
20:18:12 <oklopol> i give up
20:18:16 <oklopol> browsing is too hard
20:18:25 <ehird`> http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs.uvm.edu/~jbongard/aestv2/http://www.cs
20:18:29 <ehird`> i have linked that twice
20:18:52 <oklopol> oh
20:18:55 <oklopol> i missed that link
20:18:56 <oklopol> sorry
20:19:11 <oklopol> was wondering what you were referring to on the next line :D
20:26:34 <oklopol> On average, they guessed 55.4815% correct with a standard deviation of 3.008.
20:26:47 <ehird`> pff
20:26:49 <ehird`> maybe i'm predictable
20:26:52 <ehird`> i got over 60%
20:26:55 <ehird`> 64% iirc
20:27:26 <oklopol> i just always chose the cuter duck
20:27:35 <ehird`> ... duck? :P
20:27:48 <oklopol> well, yes :D
20:29:15 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure i was choosing the cuter one, but a part of me wanted to be as predictable as possible since SimonRC made it sound a good thing :P
20:29:21 <oklopol> *unpredictable
20:29:31 <oklopol> i'm not sure if i managed to avoid that
20:29:33 <bsmntbombdood> foo
20:29:42 <ehird`> if you are just being unpredictable on purpose
20:29:46 <ehird`> you're basically trashing the research results
20:29:47 <oklopol> might've been more predictable if i'd had no idea what it was.
20:29:51 <bsmntbombdood> putty needs to look more like a web browser
20:29:56 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: um why
20:30:20 <oklopol> i'm was not being unpredictable on purpose, but i'm not sure i managed to be as predictable as i really would've been
20:30:42 <oklopol> naturally given 90 choises, i'd choose a simple criteria and use that.
20:31:33 <oklopol> well not naturally, probably.
20:32:06 <ehird`> you are just meant to choose whichever is more aesthetically pleasing to you
20:32:16 <oklopol> like just pressing the shorter one, that would be even clearer trashing of the experiment, now i at least tried to take a "nice" one
20:33:07 <oklopol> the problem is i have no idea what "pleases me aesthetically"
20:33:16 <ehird`> whichever you like more
20:33:23 <ehird`> whichever you think is nicer
20:33:55 <oklopol> the problem is i'll just choose which looks better
20:34:18 <ehird`> that#s the point
20:34:22 <oklopol> i mean
20:34:35 <oklopol> i'll just choose an arbitrary criteria, i'm pretty sure
20:34:48 <ehird`> don't even TIHNK about criteria
20:34:55 <oklopol> some of those definately look nice
20:35:03 <oklopol> but most of them are... blobs
20:35:13 <oklopol> so i just choose a random one
20:35:27 <oklopol> i tried to force myself to think one of them is nicer than the other
20:35:58 <oklopol> but i don't think i'd actually do that, i'd choose either a random blob or just take a simple comparison routine and use that
20:36:16 <oklopol> hmm... why do we always end up discussing my bad qualities :PP
20:36:25 <oklopol> i'm gonna get me something to drink
20:36:43 <oklopol> i'll do that again, and reaaaally examine their beauty this time
20:37:06 <ehird`> you're just meant to pick as quick as possible
20:37:10 <oklopol> oh
20:37:11 <oklopol> hmm
20:37:13 <ehird`> split decision, "which is better/nicer?"
20:37:25 <oerjan> since you're oklopol, just choose the one you would most like to have sex with.
20:37:26 <ehird`> it's to analyze what aestheticness really is
20:37:33 <ehird`> oerjan: this would probably work.
20:37:36 <oklopol> except i'll start wondering what the AI is thinking at about the third pic...
20:37:50 <oklopol> and analyzing my own choises
20:37:52 <oklopol> hey
20:37:55 <oklopol> fun idea :D
20:37:57 <oklopol> i'll do that
20:39:35 <oklopol> meh, the page doesn't wanna load again
20:39:38 <oklopol> oh
20:39:40 <oklopol> now it did
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20:42:48 <oklopol> hmm, to be honest, it's quite confusing trying to get an erection over trivial 3d-models
20:43:03 -!- Cesque2 has left (?).
20:43:04 <ehird`> i might have to qdb that
20:43:07 <oklopol> xD
20:43:14 <oklopol> too much to cesque :)
20:43:16 <oklopol> *or
20:43:18 <oklopol> *for
20:43:31 <oklopol> heh
20:43:34 <oklopol> oh
20:43:46 <oklopol> *-oh
20:44:11 <oklopol> i guess i'm a bit relieved it's not working for me
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20:45:19 * oerjan has clearly underestimated oklopol
20:45:42 <oklopol> :D
20:45:45 <oklopol> in what sense?
20:45:53 <GregorR> Apparently I choose bizarre abstract forms based on shape rather than color or brightness :P
20:46:05 <ehird`> ditto
20:46:29 <oklopol> can you really choose those without keeping track of your preferences yourself: |
20:46:39 <ehird`> um yes
20:46:46 <oklopol> wish i could
20:46:48 <ehird`> seriously what is wrong with you, i just chose which one i preferred
20:46:52 <oklopol> continuing the thing ->
20:46:57 <oklopol> i don't know
20:47:01 <oerjan> now maybe i wouldn't have made the suggestion if i had any idea what kind of pictures they were...
20:47:30 <GregorR> I just stared at the middle and then chose the one my eyes were drawn to.
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20:52:33 <bsmntbombdood> i got kicked out of class >_<
20:52:41 <oklopol> why?
20:52:42 <ehird`> congrats
20:52:52 <oklopol> On average, they guessed 55.6296% correct with a standard deviation of 1.9444.
20:52:54 <oklopol> hmm...
20:52:57 <oklopol> what was my previous :|
20:53:05 <ehird`> 55
20:53:29 <oklopol> 55.48
20:53:30 <bsmntbombdood> for being a dick to the teacher and then not doing the work i was supposed to
20:53:41 <oklopol> what's being a dick in this case?
20:53:56 <bsmntbombdood> ridiculing the activity
20:53:57 <ehird`> a dick in this case?
20:53:58 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: well that's not very nice
20:53:59 <ehird`> i don't want to know
20:54:06 <ehird`> please keep the case away from me
20:54:12 <oklopol> i was kicked out once for telling a teacher a math problem was unsolvable
20:54:25 <ehird`> oklopol: and then you promptly solved it?
20:55:12 <oklopol> errr no
20:55:25 <oklopol> she wanted me to do it, because everyone else did
20:55:25 <ehird`> ;)
20:55:33 <SimonRC> what problem?
20:55:54 <oklopol> hmm
20:55:59 <oklopol> it was about 8 years ago
20:56:02 <oklopol> something about cows
20:56:04 <oklopol> :D
20:56:15 <SimonRC> so how did anyone else solve it?
20:56:29 <oklopol> i think they used some pattern they'd learned in the class
20:56:36 <oklopol> i never did my homework
20:56:48 <oklopol> because i felt i didn't need to
20:56:49 <ehird`> so it WAS solvable
20:56:53 <oklopol> yeah :D
20:57:17 <oklopol> the teacher showed it to another teacher, and i was right, it was unsolvable
20:57:38 <ehird`> so how did they solve it
20:57:40 <oklopol> she came to me almost crying and told me i still should've done it and not humiliated her in front of the class.
20:57:41 <SimonRC> I am also an imperial nudity spotter by nature.
20:57:56 <ehird`> 1. Problem is unsolvable
20:57:56 <ehird`> 2. Others solved problem
20:57:59 <oklopol> when i just seriously had no idea how to do it :D
20:57:59 <ehird`> mutually exclusive.
20:58:04 <bsmntbombdood> SimonRC: wait what?
20:58:33 <SimonRC> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes )
20:59:00 <oklopol> 1. we were only taught a few basic techniques 2. the test was always about the last technique taught 3. most kids do math without having any idea about it, just doing random pattern matching with the numbers
20:59:18 <oklopol> they did not solve it right, it was unsolvable, they just guessed what the teacher had meant
20:59:30 <oklopol> i have long forgotten what the point was :P
20:59:36 <oklopol> oh right, outkickity.
21:01:02 <bsmntbombdood> outkickity?
21:01:17 <oklopol> the act or instance of being kicked out... ity
21:01:25 <oklopol> or something
21:01:35 <oklopol> i like bending words in an ugly way
21:06:28 <oerjan> outkickality
21:06:36 <oklopol> outal kickage
21:07:47 <bsmntbombdood> pyroalgolagnia
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21:08:21 <ehird`> anderotinisaotamellililiphillicanosorophis
21:08:40 <oklopol> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
21:09:23 <jix> if a teacher makes a mistake you notice one doesn't tell it after the lesson or so...
21:09:43 <jix> like that would be no fun
21:10:37 <oklopol> i wouldn't have said anything at all, it's just she wouldn't let me omit the assignment in a test since she wanted me to get a perfect score
21:11:06 <SimonRC> bah
21:11:44 * jix likes to argue with teachers
21:11:54 <jix> luckily i have teachers that have no problem with that
21:11:54 <SimonRC> yes
21:11:58 <SimonRC> yup
21:12:09 * bsmntbombdood likes to fuck, eat, and kill teachers
21:12:10 <oklopol> i don't like arguing with anyone, it's just hard not to :D
21:12:13 <oklopol> hmm
21:12:15 <SimonRC> except the ones who actually do want to get on with it and argue in their own time
21:12:18 <oklopol> i haven't done any of those :<
21:12:28 <SimonRC> I mean, get on with the lesson now
21:14:29 <oerjan> > '\0o97'
21:14:36 <oklopol> hehe
21:14:44 <ehird`> oerjan: /q lambdabot
21:15:05 <oklopol> i'll make ololobot redirect oerjan to lambdabot soon :P
21:15:15 <oklopol> and bring it here, since it's down, i see
21:15:37 <oerjan> ehird`: i am actually in #haskell, demonstrating
21:15:46 <ehird`> well you're not in #esoteric
21:15:47 <ehird`> ;P
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21:42:49 <ehird`> 3
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22:08:06 * SimonRC goes to bed
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23:01:38 <GregorR> I wonder if there's a Unicode encoding with an "offset marker", so you can say "The following text is all offset by <x>"
23:01:45 <ehird`> interesting
23:02:01 <GregorR> That would probably make encoding in any language smaller, since the offset of the first character in any given language is a constant.
23:03:07 <GregorR> e.g. Chinese would be reduced to the offset into the list of Chinese characters, which would generally fit into two bytes rather than three.
23:03:17 <ehird`> tyhat would be cool
23:03:19 <ehird`> how about extending unicode
23:03:20 <ehird`> :P
23:03:31 <GregorR> No need to extend Unicode, just make a new encoding ...
23:05:33 <GregorR> Seriously, this makes waaaaaaaaaay too much sense to not exist ...
23:05:45 <GregorR> I mean, how often are you switching between languages so quickly that you can't have a constant offset?
23:06:00 <GregorR> I guess one of the advantages of UTF-8 is that you can take any offset and not get invalid text ...
23:06:07 <GregorR> s/offset/subset/
23:09:59 <oerjan> GregorR: well Latin-based languages are not always consecutive, since they're ASCII+another page. i don't know whether other scripts are.
23:10:39 <ehird`> :-)
23:11:01 <GregorR> oerjan: Oh, that's a good point.
23:11:52 <GregorR> I'm pretty sure that the languages that are more interesting for this (e.g. Chinese/Japanese/Korean) are more contiguous, but probably not entirely (e.g. Japanese <place_word_here> is the Chinese alphabet)
23:12:06 <ehird`> place_word_here = kanji?
23:12:12 <GregorR> Sure! :P
23:14:23 <ehird`> alternatively, 漢字
23:14:34 <ehird`> for fun metaness
23:41:38 <ehird`> =)
23:42:42 <GregorR> (When nobody talks for a while, ehird` spontaneously produces an emoticon)
23:42:56 <ehird`> Error: I have been found out
23:43:05 <ehird`> Trying to reduce 3x levels of meta-irony... (76%)
23:43:14 <ehird`> Error. Abort, Retry, Fail?
23:44:16 <oerjan> Miserably.
23:45:17 <ehird`> Miserably, Retry, Fail?
23:45:42 <bsmntbombdood> what's the difference between abort and fail?
23:45:54 <ehird`> I don't actually know.
23:46:06 <ehird`> iirc, Abort continued your comand set
23:46:10 <ehird`> Fail stopped it all
23:46:55 <ehird`> i'm not sure
23:47:16 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abort,_Retry,_Fail%3F
23:47:20 <ehird`> The message would prompt the user to hit "A" to abort the operation, "R" to try reading the data again, or "F" to attempt to proceed without the necessary data.
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01:45:39 <Tritonio> windows must hate linux...
01:45:52 <Tritonio> i tried to install them in a small partition.
01:46:04 <Tritonio> i knew that they would destroy grab
01:46:49 <Tritonio> what i didn't expect was that they would think that the partition has error that can't be fixed and that they would immediately destroy the partition table.
01:47:04 <Tritonio> for no reason
01:48:19 <pikhq> Jebus.
01:54:24 <Tritonio> jebus?
01:56:40 <Tritonio> oh ok i looked it up in urban dictionary... ;-)
01:59:50 <bsmntbombdood> jeebus
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05:06:21 <oklopol> o
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09:22:12 <oklokol> web clients suck
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15:55:53 * SimonRC decides that Shaun the Sheep is hillarious
15:56:22 <ehird`> you'd think aardman would get bored doing claymation
15:56:25 <ehird`> and start selling suits or something
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16:01:14 <SimonRC> companies never get bored of anything profitable
16:17:21 <GregorR> It's the AMERICAN WAY
16:17:35 <SimonRC> no, English
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16:43:48 <SimonRC> hi * 2
16:44:14 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit).
16:44:39 -!- jix has joined.
16:52:01 <ehird`> 2hi
16:52:02 <ehird`> :P
16:52:58 <SimonRC> no
16:53:08 <SimonRC> sqrt(4h^2)
16:53:23 <ehird`> complex_equation_for_2hi
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17:42:32 <g4lt-sb100> ni, hanging on in quiet desparation is the english way ;P
17:42:47 <ehird`> g4lt-sb100: groan
17:52:57 <bsmntbombdood> grr @ LUKS
17:53:09 <ehird`> LUKS don't matter
17:53:32 <bsmntbombdood> it's broken
17:53:41 <ehird`> whoosh
18:02:50 * SimonRC has diner.
18:03:41 * ehird` does not own a diner, but does own several dinners.
18:06:25 <bsmntbombdood> i want dinner
18:19:21 <bsmntbombdood> sweet, kucinich supports lowering the drinking age
18:19:46 <ehird`> heh
18:22:58 <ehird`> it's not as if kucinich has any chance of becoming president, though
18:23:04 <ehird`> i'm not an american and even i can guess that
18:23:44 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.stencilrevolution.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18221&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
18:23:47 <bsmntbombdood> wrong window
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20:53:21 <UnrelatedToQaz> Anyone here?
20:53:27 <ehird`> yes
20:53:41 <UnrelatedToQaz> good
20:53:55 <bsmntbombdood> yes
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22:05:59 <ehird`> :O
22:06:15 <ehird`> (Random emotion produce cycle completed successfully, 2 bytes of message emitted.)
22:15:44 <SimonRC> :-S
22:19:42 <ehird`> Heh, alternative to The Game: You win when you think about it, lose when you don't.
22:21:49 <SimonRC> :-S
22:22:13 <ehird`> :-S
22:23:50 <SimonRC> :-S
22:23:57 <ehird`> :-S
22:24:18 <SimonRC> just sometimes, he really captures the geek nature
22:24:23 <SimonRC> damn, wrong button
22:24:24 <SimonRC> :-S
22:24:29 <ehird`> :-S
22:24:32 <SimonRC> :-S
22:24:37 <ehird`> :-S
22:24:40 <SimonRC> :-S
22:24:43 <ehird`> :-S
22:24:44 <SimonRC> :-S
22:24:49 <ehird`> :-S
22:24:50 <SimonRC> :-S
22:24:51 <ehird`> :-S
22:24:57 <SimonRC> :-S
22:24:59 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:00 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:00 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:00 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:00 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:01 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:01 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:02 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:03 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:03 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:04 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:25:05 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:05 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:06 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:08 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:09 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:10 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:11 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:13 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:14 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:24 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:25 <ehird`> :-S
22:25:27 <SimonRC> :-S
22:25:28 <ehird`> well that was fun
22:25:32 <SimonRC> yup
22:25:37 <SimonRC> bash.org?
22:25:43 <oerjan> >_<
22:25:45 <ehird`> if you want
22:25:48 <SimonRC> CBA
22:25:49 <ehird`> not like it'll be accepted though
22:26:00 <SimonRC> YHTBT
22:26:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:26:18 <SimonRC> and Sgeo missed it
22:26:35 <Sgeo> What did I miss?
22:26:39 <ehird`> fun
22:28:04 <Sgeo> Ah, the Game which I lost ty a lot, and flooding
22:28:04 <bsmntbombdood> stfu
22:28:25 <ehird`> @:P
22:28:44 <Sgeo> S-:
22:28:50 <ehird`> S-:
22:28:58 <Sgeo> :(
22:32:08 * SimonRC goes
22:44:21 * SimonRC goes to bed
22:44:45 * ehird` goes. Go is to the pig.
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2007-10-12
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00:57:08 <pikhq> w00ts.
00:57:56 <bsmntbombdood> what
01:12:04 <bsmntbombdood> TELL ME WHAT
01:19:44 <pikhq> Weekend.
01:21:36 <bsmntbombdood> i has 3 day weekend
01:24:35 <pikhq> As do I. :D
01:24:53 <bsmntbombdood> we should orgify with oklopol
01:26:04 <pikhq> XD
01:26:36 <bsmntbombdood> i see you've got your eye-protective squint down well
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01:37:43 <oklopol> what fun, 3:35 am, and i have to write two essays for school <3
01:38:25 <oklopol> i did get a good 7 hours sleep during the day, so i'm not tired, but it *might* be a bit more fun to use the night for coding
01:38:33 <oklopol> also, orgies are always a good idea
01:41:27 <pikhq> 6:24 PM, and I don't have to do anything.
01:41:29 <pikhq> (yet)
01:42:01 <oklopol> *healthy
01:42:12 <oklopol> (if you know what i'm fixing, you are a freak.)
01:42:36 <oklopol> o you lucky bastard
01:42:38 <oklopol> o
01:42:39 <oklopol> o
01:42:44 <oklopol> hmm, guess i should eat something
01:43:08 <bsmntbombdood> oh em gee pikhq has the same time as me
01:43:18 <oklopol> just did 3 math exams to compensate for my lack of attendance @ classes
01:43:32 <oklopol> hmph, why do i always get the bad times :<
01:43:35 <oklopol> foods ->
01:43:35 <bsmntbombdood> wait what?
01:43:46 <bsmntbombdood> [18:41] <pikhq> 6:24 PM, and I don't have to do anything.
01:43:54 <bsmntbombdood> your clock is seriously off mister
01:44:02 <oklopol> (03:41:26) (pikhq) 6:24 PM
01:44:07 <oklopol> time dilation
01:44:51 <oerjan> IM IN UR CLOCK, DILATING UR TIME
01:45:22 <oklopol> hmm... i should practise this leaving the computer thing.
01:45:25 <oklopol> ->
01:45:39 <oklopol> actually leaving might be good practise.
01:47:44 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: s/24/42/ ;)
01:47:55 <pikhq> Typo'd.
02:49:30 <RodgerTheGreat> howdy, folks
02:49:34 <RodgerTheGreat> what's up?
02:50:05 <oerjan> very little, apparently
02:50:44 * Sgeo hasn't been working on PSOX
02:50:45 <Sgeo> :(
02:52:59 <bsmntbombdood> my nipples!!
02:53:09 <oerjan> o_O
03:18:44 <oklopol> yay done
03:19:27 <oklopol> 3 math exams, and 2 essays, and i still have time to spare!
03:20:04 <oklopol> (i guess one of my essays was 25% the requested length though...)
03:20:51 <oklopol> my black nipple hair is only 2cm now, it was like 8, but it got ripped off :<<
03:21:06 <lament> TMI?
03:21:07 <oklopol> (just a single hair, i'm a freak)
03:21:08 <bsmntbombdood> oh boy
03:21:42 <oklopol> you know an essay is good when you end it in "bukkake"
03:21:49 <bsmntbombdood> indeed
03:22:25 <oklopol> hmm, alright, i was supposed to eat something...
03:22:29 <oklopol> now, perhaps ->
03:23:51 <oklopol> hmm, perhaps i should attach a bukkake link or something, the teacher might not know what it is
03:24:09 <lament> 'a picture is worth a thousand words'
03:24:56 <oklopol> indeed, i'll just print out an example
03:25:44 <oklopol> actually, i'm not sure if she'll read it, the course is just passed or failed, no grade
03:25:46 <lament> don't print, show her
03:25:52 <oklopol> so... why would she bother
03:26:01 <oklopol> that sounds good too
03:26:22 <oklopol> i'll need more sperm doners though, or it's not really bukkake :|
03:26:25 <oklopol> "doner"
03:26:26 <oklopol> hmm
03:26:41 <oklopol> i wonder how that's spelled
03:27:09 <oklopol> donor
03:27:10 <oklopol> ah
03:27:16 <bsmntbombdood> you know what they say...a demonstration is worth 1000 pictures
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04:52:14 <GregorR> GCC-MISC. Stupid idea? Or BRILLIANT SCHEME?
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04:58:46 <pikhq> Brilliant.
05:03:09 <pikhq> Now, I want a Turing machine implemented in Magic: The Gathering.
05:03:15 <pikhq> All in favor?
05:07:18 <oklopol> old, but interesting
05:08:15 <pikhq> If done right?
05:08:36 <pikhq> As in "within the rules of Magic"?
05:08:41 <oklopol> yes
05:08:50 <pikhq> But has it been done?
05:08:56 <pikhq> (if so, that kicks ass)
05:09:04 <pikhq> (and I want to play that deck)
05:09:31 <oklopol> hmm hmm, there was something similar in the wiki, but it was just an idea, i think
05:10:19 <oklopol> there are some 50000 iirc in magic the gathering, and at least a few infinite loops have been implemented, so you can prolly do some computation :P
05:10:37 <pikhq> :D
05:10:48 <oklopol> i know a guy who's in the finnish top10
05:11:02 <oklopol> and all my friends are all-around geeks
05:17:16 <oklopol> were you thinking like, first X cards to initialize, then Y cards to represent the actual program?
05:18:14 <pikhq> Possible.
05:18:21 <oklopol> if the execution was to deterministic, you should really choose the initialization cards wisely, since it's usually actually *played*
05:18:24 <oklopol> *is
05:18:34 <pikhq> What'd matter is if it's possible to do via the effects of cards.
05:19:10 <pikhq> Perhaps have the program cards be ones with effects that can let you pull cards from the library to your hand, so that you can actually initialise.
05:19:55 <oklopol> hmm, but you mean the player would need to be a part of the program? that would make it 1) less cool 2) more possible
05:23:05 <pikhq> The player would need to at least start the program.
05:23:32 <pikhq> Consider it like toggling bits on a PDP to get the bootloader in place.
05:25:56 <oklopol> hmm... PDP? :|
05:26:53 <oklopol> but anyways, the problem with effects is there aren't many fully automatic effects, most require the player to make choises after playing the card
05:27:50 <pikhq> For the sake of sanity, I will assume non-tournament-legal cards may be played. . .
05:28:24 <pikhq> Allowing you to use the Mox Lotus to make land a non-issue.
05:34:22 <pikhq> Any ideas?
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06:00:12 <bsmntbom1dood> no, hamlet allusions aren't totally lame
06:02:38 <bsmntbom1dood> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair,
06:02:41 <bsmntbom1dood> we had everything before us, we had nothing before us
06:02:44 <bsmntbom1dood> etc...
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06:03:16 <GregorR> ... a Hamlet of Two Cities?
06:04:14 <bsmntbombdood> more like a Cliche of Two shitty stories
06:12:27 <galt> a tale of two places that are about to host walmarts
06:14:10 <GregorR> There are two cities without wal-marts?
06:14:59 <GregorR> I thought even Amishville Pennsylvania had a Wal-Mart, although it's a Wall's Marte there.
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06:32:36 <GregorR> Either I'm not very good at decoding Unicode, or my offset-based encoding concept isn't very good :P
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13:05:42 <SimonRC> How can MTG do any computation?
13:40:19 <ehird`> wow, the guy who founded Y Combinator with PG wrote the Morris worm and founded Viaweb
13:40:21 <ehird`> i didn't know that.
13:43:42 <oklopol> exciting life
13:43:57 <ehird`> inded
13:44:00 <ehird`> *indeed
13:44:00 <ehird`> :P
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16:53:02 <fax> hello
16:57:57 <fax> I'm gonna run a contest for brainfuck
16:58:03 <ehird`> hm
16:58:04 <ehird`> what type
16:58:11 <fax> Write a program which given some string of text outputs a brainfuck program which prints that text. The aim is to produce as small a brainfuck program as you can.
16:58:19 <ehird`> already been done
16:58:31 <fax> but.. It can't be done
16:58:36 <ehird`> yes it can
16:58:39 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: egobot's algorithm is shit
16:58:39 <ehird`> it's been done as a competition before
16:58:43 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: no
16:58:44 <fax> ohh
16:58:46 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: the competition
16:58:51 <bsmntbombdood> orly?
16:58:55 <ehird`> yes
16:58:55 <ehird`> wait
16:58:59 <fax> Where are the results?
16:59:08 <fax> I'll still try
16:59:12 <ehird`> http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/results0.txt
16:59:21 <ehird`> admittedly, the output size is shit
16:59:28 <ehird`> but, a competition for those programs has been done
16:59:39 <fax> oh
16:59:42 <bsmntbombdood> oh, and fax, proving the output is the best possible is impossible
16:59:48 <fax> bsmntbombdood: Yes
17:00:04 <fax> ehird`: You won't have to use brainfuck do it though
17:00:07 <ehird`> oh
17:02:37 <fax> bsmntbombdood: How do you know that actually
17:02:46 <bsmntbombdood> kolgomorov complexity
17:02:53 <fax> ah o k
17:03:07 <fax> I assumed it based on chaitins stuff
17:03:17 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood used ACADEMIC TERMS. Critical hit! Enemy fax fainte.d
17:03:23 <fax> hahaha
17:05:32 <bsmntbombdood> make brainfuck without the ugly nesting []
17:05:39 <bsmntbombdood> so that any string is valid
17:06:02 <ehird`> hah
17:07:16 <fax> hmpf
17:07:19 <fax> +[>.+<] Real random byte generator.
17:07:23 <fax> no it's not :/
17:07:47 <ehird`> that's not random :P
17:09:47 * SimonRC goes shopping
17:17:35 <bsmntbombdood> haha shopping?
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17:49:08 <bsmntbombdood> how were the strings on the brainfuck constants wiki page generated?
17:50:33 <oerjan> for the wrapping ones, someone wrote a search program i think
17:51:00 <oerjan> the non-wrapping ones are a bit hodge-podge
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18:31:52 <oerjan> :t (//)
18:31:59 <oerjan> argh
18:32:32 <bsmntbombdood> prefix integer-divide?
18:32:55 <oerjan> some array operator, apparently
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19:05:48 <fax> ok
19:05:49 <fax> http://rafb.net/p/tEDLkD38.txt
19:05:57 <fax> This is it
19:06:20 <ehird`> > would be faster than [-]
19:06:26 <fax> Uses linear memory though
19:06:33 <fax> instead of constant
19:06:44 <fax> not that it matters :p
19:07:15 <fax> > is better than [-] though
19:07:17 <fax> because it's shorter
19:09:43 <bsmntbombdood> TRICKY TRICKY
19:09:45 <bsmntbombdood> OOPS
19:09:59 <fax> hehe
19:10:59 <bsmntbombdood> use the FLAC algorithm
19:11:05 <ehird`> haha
19:11:11 <ehird`> flac is for audio data, no?
19:11:19 <fax> It is lossless
19:11:28 <fax> no way can I implement flac in bf though :/
19:11:35 <bsmntbombdood> it's easy actually
19:11:37 <ehird`> flac in bf would be ridiculous
19:11:42 <ehird`> flac is a very complex algorithm
19:11:46 <ehird`> with a huge C implementation
19:11:49 <bsmntbombdood> no it's not...
19:11:56 <ehird`> maybe we are talking about a different flac.
19:12:03 <ehird`> http://flac.sourceforge.net/
19:12:11 <oklopol> (bsmntbombdood) oh, and fax, proving the output is the best possible is impossible <<< it's definately possible for any distinct string, just not the general case
19:12:19 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: huh?
19:12:36 <fax> oklopol: Really?
19:12:40 <oerjan> oklopol: incorrect
19:12:41 <fax> how can you
19:12:51 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: given a program to generate a string, it's not possible to prove there's none shorter
19:13:03 <oklopol> really? :|
19:13:13 <fax> Sometimes it is possible to prove it
19:13:21 <oklopol> ah
19:13:22 <oklopol> sorry
19:13:25 <fax> It might be impossible to prove it in another case though won't it?
19:13:38 <oklopol> i always fail at this ;) anyways, it's *sometimes* possible
19:13:48 <bsmntbombdood> is it?
19:13:48 <oerjan> it will be impossible in some cases
19:13:58 <fax> oklopol: YOu might like http://www.cs.umaine.edu/~chaitin/unknowable/
19:14:03 <fax> he talks about this
19:14:26 <oklopol> i've read it all
19:14:31 <oklopol> it's just i'm pretty dumb
19:14:32 <fax> ah ok
19:15:30 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: we should invite fax to our orgy
19:15:40 <fax> That is a good idea
19:15:41 <oklopol> indeed
19:15:44 <oklopol> :O
19:15:50 <fax> :O
19:15:50 <oklopol> ASL!?!
19:15:55 <fax> I thought you said the other thing
19:15:59 <fax> fax: we should invite oklopol
19:16:13 <ehird`> did someone say orgy?
19:16:15 <ehird`> i mean, uh
19:16:16 <ehird`> nevermind
19:16:41 <oklopol> have you and bsmntbombdood planned to have an orgy too, fax :P
19:16:54 <oklopol> hmm, i gotta go listen to deathchain soon
19:17:02 <oklopol> my first time in a finnish bar :P
19:17:10 <oklopol> and i'm like 18.6
19:17:22 <bsmntbombdood> what's the drinking age, 18?
19:17:25 <oklopol> yep
19:17:28 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: 18.3
19:17:36 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: what?
19:17:43 <oklopol> i've been in many german bars though, don't know if that's the same thing
19:17:47 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: just a joke in reference to oklopol's 18.6
19:18:31 <bsmntbombdood> me oklopol and fax are like 5000s of miles away
19:18:53 <fax> if you want to have an orgy I can bring some guy
19:18:55 <fax> lol
19:19:15 <oklopol> fax: do you happen to be a woman?
19:20:36 <bsmntbombdood> hmm
19:20:36 <oklopol> hmm... got my synth here, i should make my own version of http://www.mikseri.net/artists/speedpianosoolo.23659.php
19:20:52 <bsmntbombdood> sweden and finland together look like a flaccid cock and balls
19:21:02 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: we needed to know this.
19:21:06 <oklopol> the keys have a pretty orgastic feel to them
19:21:19 <oklopol> yes, you should see the euro coin without norway and russia...
19:21:26 <oklopol> it's a fucking penis :P
19:21:36 <ehird`> we also needed to know this
19:22:52 <oklopol> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:2euro1-dick.jpg
19:23:14 <oklopol> that's a bit deformed, actually, but the real one is almost as dicky
19:23:30 <bsmntbombdood> haha
19:23:36 <bsmntbombdood> exactly
19:23:48 <ehird`> is there a list of all known Brainfuck->c optimizations?
19:23:54 <ehird`> i wonder if some of my ideas have already been done
19:25:02 <bsmntbombdood> "all known"
19:25:19 <ehird`> "what about it"
19:25:36 <bsmntbombdood> that's a dumb question
19:25:40 <ehird`> why
19:26:20 <oklopol> oh my god speed piano soolo is great
19:26:25 <oklopol> are you listening yet?
19:26:28 <oklopol> ARE YOU?`
19:26:48 <bsmntbombdood> i'd rather be fucking
19:26:50 <bsmntbombdood> er, sailing
19:26:59 <ehird`> the keys are like right next to each other
19:27:36 <bsmntbombdood> THE SLIP WAS RATHER FRUEDIAN
19:28:10 <oklopol> frue-indeed-dian.
19:28:22 <fax> hm
19:28:27 <oklopol> ehird`: what keys?
19:28:31 <oklopol> 10 minutes
19:28:37 <oklopol> oh my god, there's gonna be people there
19:28:45 <oklopol> i'm gonna die.
19:28:46 <ehird`> oklopol: it's a bash quote reference
19:29:17 <oklopol> oh, heh, i naturally assumed you were referring to speed piano soolo! :)
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19:52:48 <fax> hm
19:52:55 <fax> Do you think huffman would be really hard?
19:53:10 <fax> in brainfuck
19:53:12 <GregorR> [speaking of Freudian...]
19:53:19 <GregorR> fax: Probably. No bitwise ops.
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19:58:47 <fax> hm :/
19:58:56 <fax> I need more peopel to enter this because I'm out of god ideas
19:59:33 <Cesque> god?
19:59:38 <fax> good
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20:22:58 * GregorR implements a god in BF.
20:26:28 <fax> hm
20:26:51 <fax> Isn't there some list of brainfuck programs which have been shown to be the smallest
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20:37:09 <fax> !bf >+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<.
20:37:12 <EgoBot> ?
20:37:12 <fax> .bf >+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<.
20:37:15 <fax> ah: D
20:37:55 <fax> !bf +>>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<<[>.+.++++++++++++++.++.>+++++++[<------------>-]<-.>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]<--<]
20:38:03 <GregorR> Heh, for a second I thought you'd confused EgoBot X-D
20:38:09 <fax> lol
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21:23:56 <EgoBot> desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu d
21:24:07 <ehird`> er
21:24:10 <ehird`> who hacked egobot
21:24:25 * fax giggles
21:25:35 <GregorR> !ps -d
21:25:39 <EgoBot> 1 ais523: daemon ul bf
21:25:41 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR: ps
21:25:49 <GregorR> See the daemon :P
21:25:53 <ehird`> ah
21:25:54 <ehird`> what does it do
21:25:58 <ehird`> :P
21:27:31 <GregorR> I suspect that lets you run unlambda code, but daemons have the interesting property that no matter how you get the message to EgoBot, it responds in the channel the daemon was started in.
21:27:51 <ehird`> so someone wrote an unlambda program to repeat desu?
21:27:54 <ehird`> must be pretty bored.
21:30:38 <fax> unlambda program to repeat desu in < 512 chars?
21:30:42 <fax> I don't think that is possible
21:30:50 <ehird`> indeed.
21:31:28 <GregorR> Alternatively, a program that was running to produce that just took a very long time before dying *shrugs*
21:31:47 <fax> yes desu | tr '\n' ' '
21:32:09 <ehird`> heh
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22:25:30 <bsmntbombdood> !help
22:25:33 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
22:25:35 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
22:25:52 <ehird`> !qbf CAT
22:25:58 <ehird`> !qbf CAT: ALIVE OR DEAD?
22:26:00 <ehird`> hmph
22:26:00 <bsmntbombdood> !bf_txtgen Hello, Brainfuck. I like cheesy-potatoes.
22:26:01 <ehird`> useless
22:26:15 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Hello, brainfuck. I like huge text generation code that lags the bot.
22:29:21 <EgoBot> 597 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++>++<<<<-]>>---.<----.+++++++..+++.>>-.>++.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++.>-.++++++++.+++++.<------------.>+++++++.<---.>----------.>++.>.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.<<+.---.++.------.>>.<<+++.+++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--.>.<<-.>.<++++.----.>>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.
22:29:31 <EgoBot> 438 ++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>++++++++>++++<<<<-]>.>>+++++.<..+++.>>----.------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<+++.>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++.<+++++++++.>---.<<+++.------------------.>---.<-----------------------------------------------------.--------------.<+.>.>+.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++.------.>.<--.+++++.---..++++++++++++++.+++++
22:30:00 <fax> 1093 chars :/
22:30:08