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2022-04-01
00:11:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94372&oldid=94134 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+34)
00:13:39 <esolangs> [[Slot-Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94373 * Zero player rodent * (+5987) Created page with "'''Slot-Machine''' is a queue-based [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Zero player rodent]]. The language was designed so that the code would resemble a slot..."
00:14:32 <esolangs> [[User:Zero player rodent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94374&oldid=94168 * Zero player rodent * (+20)
01:47:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94375&oldid=94262 * PoolloverNathan * (+183) Introduce myself
01:47:26 <esolangs> [[User:PoolloverNathan/ test]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94376 * PoolloverNathan * (+4) Created page with "test"
02:09:51 <esolangs> [[User:PoolloverNathan/Pine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94377 * PoolloverNathan * (+438) Start draft
02:12:27 <b_jonas> in the amount written on the cheque at the bottom of https://what-if.xkcd.com/108/ , what is the letter S supposed to mean?
02:15:10 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busy_beaver#Maximum_shifts_function_S maybe
02:16:40 <int-e> (The subscript may be the number of symbols instead of 2? See "Generalizations")
02:18:34 <b_jonas> thanks, so that is the largest term
02:18:52 <b_jonas> busy beaver 1000, whatever that suffix is, is huge
02:19:47 <b_jonas> (I mean it says 1000**(1000**1000) before that, which is already meaninglessly large if measured in any currency units that you'd write on a cheque, but still
02:19:58 <b_jonas> yes, even Zimbabwean dollars
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07:00:23 <esolangs> [[Miw]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94381 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+861) Created page with "'''Miw''' is [[Questa]]-based language by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08|ChuckEsoteric08]]. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Meaning |- | 0-9 || Push that number to q..."
07:01:34 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94382&oldid=94300 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+27)
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08:08:27 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94383&oldid=94355 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+688) Line length problem
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08:15:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94385&oldid=94384 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+79)
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10:40:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FrankPujo * New user account
10:44:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94387&oldid=94375 * FrankPujo * (+205) /* Introductions */
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12:32:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94388&oldid=94385 * ProjectEuler * (-61) Citation needed 1st birthday
13:14:48 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94389 * FrankPujo * (+1050) Created page with "Linguarcana is an esoteric programming language created by FrankPujo. It's aim is to create a source code that resembles an Ancient Latin text. == Language == === Sections, m..."
13:15:37 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94390 * FrankPujo * (+29) Created page with "I'm creating [[Linguarcana]]!"
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20:09:06 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering, what will be the effect if a merged or melded permanent is moved from the battlefield to the stack?
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20:28:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: is there an effect that does that?
20:29:51 <b_jonas> I bought Patrick's Parabox (the new puzzle video game)
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20:43:37 <zzo38> I don't know if there is any effect that does that, but I wanted to know if the rules even support such a use at all and what might happen, if a card is made which does that, or if additional rules must be added to support such a thing.
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21:15:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: I believe the effects that move anything to the stack are restricted: they can be "cast (object)" but I don't think there's any that's from a battlefield, "cast a copy of (instant or sorcery object)" but also not from battlefield, "copy (object already on the stack)", the built-in rule that puts triggered abilites on stack some time after they triggered, and maybe a few more but not many
21:15:56 <b_jonas> well today some of them are called "play" instead of "cast" but that means the same
21:21:30 <zzo38> Yes, but I meant if (for example) an effect says to cast a permanent, and that permanent is a melded or merged permanent.
21:30:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: right, but I think there are only effects that let you cast abilities, objects from your hand, gy, exile, and library (the last one is very rare, I think Panglacial Wurm is the only vintage-legal one)
21:32:44 <zzo38> If unofficial cards are made up that allow to cast permanents (including keyword abilities such as spellmorph, as well as non-keyword effects), then maybe a rule can be added, e.g. that merged and melded permanents cannot be moved fromt he battlefield to the stack. (That seems the simplest way to do it.)
21:32:59 <b_jonas> no, there's a few more examples for casting from your library: Melek, Izzet Paragon and Wickerwing Effigy
21:33:26 <b_jonas> also there are rules and abilities that let you cast from the command zone
21:34:02 <zzo38> Yes, and I think the existing rules work in all cases, the only case I can think that it probably will not work is merged and melded permanents
21:34:30 <b_jonas> oh, also Spawnsire of Ulamog lets you cast directly from your sideboard
21:35:44 <b_jonas> I don't see why merged/melded permanents in particular would be more problematic than moving objects to your stack directly without casting them in general
21:36:18 <b_jonas> there are often choices that you have to make when you play a card or activated ability, and something has to set those
21:36:32 <b_jonas> usually it's the process of playing that object that sets them,
21:36:50 <b_jonas> when you copy a spell or ability then the choices are copied,
21:37:33 <b_jonas> and for triggers it's how the trigger was satisfied that sets them plus you make choices when you put the triggers on the stack
21:37:50 <b_jonas> but in general if something instructed you to put something on the stack, it would have to tell you how to make those choices
21:38:40 <b_jonas> because there's often no default way
21:39:12 <b_jonas> there are default ways for every choice that you only set when you pay the cost of a spell, because there are abilities that let you cast cards without paying their cost
21:40:25 <b_jonas> eg. there's a rule for how to determine X if you cast Thrive without paying its mana cost
21:43:16 <b_jonas> you could probably have an ability that lets you cast a permanent, and if it's melded the player would just cast both halves separately in the order of their choice
21:43:22 <b_jonas> I don't think that's problematic
21:43:31 <b_jonas> I won't claim anything about merged
21:46:00 <zzo38> OK, that could also work for melded permanents
21:47:12 <b_jonas> isn't there a general rule that says that's how moving a melded permanent works?
21:47:23 <zzo38> (For merged permanents, a similar thing could work too I suppose)
21:48:49 <zzo38> Yes. However, in the process of casting an object, I don't know if it would confuse anything that expects it to be a single spell, or if one part of a merged permanent is a land, etc.
21:49:18 <b_jonas> unclear. 713.4c might make it work that way.
21:49:45 <zzo38> Or something prevents one of them from being cast but not the other one, etc.
21:50:38 <b_jonas> well, I expect that if there were effects that can cast a card from the battlefield then the CR would be amended to clarify how it works for melded permanents
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23:31:29 <b_jonas> this game is really good. so far I got through six zones, finished all but one level in the first five zones. my favorite level so far is Ersrerapr-10
2022-04-02
00:17:27 <zzo38> If unofficial cards are made up then such a rule may need written, too.
00:19:28 <zzo38> I had also thought of making up a new keyword ability "disable"; I had done such a thing before but it wasn't very good so I can consider to change its working entirely.
00:20:07 <zzo38> One possibility is to add attack mode and defense mode, which is specified for each attacking or blocking creature. Usually, the only possible mode is normal attack mode and normal defense mode.
01:52:12 <zzo38> And then, if a attacking creature has disable ability then you can choose to attack with normal mode or disabling mode; if disabling mode then you must select a creature controlled by defending player to attempt to disable. If that creature's type changes so that it is not a creature, it is still trying to be disabled though, although it must be a creature when being selected.
01:54:43 <zzo38> That creature cannot block unless a different creature blocks the creature using disable ability. And then, during combat damage step if it is unblocked then the effect is different from normal combat damage. Protection still helps, though.
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07:30:45 <esolangs> [[UBLANG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94396 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+597) Created page with "'''UBLANG'''(Un'''u'''sa'''b'''le '''lang'''uage) is esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08|ChuckEsoteric08]]. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- | + || Increment accumulator 1 |..."
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10:51:44 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94410&oldid=94391 * FrankPujo * (+102)
11:56:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: There's a modification to the CR that I'd like to suggest. This changes 104.3a, 104.5, 405.6, 704, 800.4. When a player concedes or an effect or 801.14 says that they lose the game, that player half-leaves the game. If a player half-left the game, and if a rule requires that they make a choice, then the next player in turn order makes that choice. If a player half-left the game, then any effects
11:56:39 <b_jonas> saying that they control another player end. If a player half-lost the game then they don't get priority, and if they have priority now then they pass it. As a new state-based action, if a player has half-left the game or then they leave the game when sba are checked, thus the rest of 800.4 apply from then. If a player has 0 or less life or attempted to draw from an empty library, when sba are checked
11:56:45 <b_jonas> they lose the game, and if they lost the game (no effect says that they don't or can't) then they half-leave the game and leave the game immediately (rather than only in the next loop of sba). If a player left the game, they can't leave the game again.
11:59:39 <b_jonas> The rationale for this is that 800.4 is a very complicated long rule, and it annoys me that its effect can apply any time, because a player can concede any time. So I make it so that most of it applies only at sba time instead. But if a player concedes, they shouldn't make decisions anymore, or get priority, so we patch that. This isn't perfect either, multiplayer rules are complicated, but I think it's
11:59:45 <b_jonas> better than the present rules.
12:04:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94411&oldid=94400 * Peter * (+37) /* B */
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12:46:01 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94414&oldid=94410 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) Categories, until -> if
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13:47:29 <esolangs> [[!!SuperPrime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94415&oldid=51814 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+80) Add categories
13:58:56 <int-e> "loop"
14:00:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94416&oldid=90137 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+264)
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14:50:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mitik392 * New user account
14:54:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94417&oldid=94387 * Mitik392 * (+71) /* Introductions */
14:56:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94418&oldid=94417 * Mitik392 * (+173) /* Introductions */
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16:00:34 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94419&oldid=94414 * FrankPujo * (+27)
16:30:48 <zzo38> Yes, rules for conceding should need changed, and your suggestion could work, maybe.
16:46:17 <zzo38> One possible variant would be that effects causing that player to control someone do not end yet but are ignored. If any player has priority then state-based actions are checked immediately, just before the player who currently has priority gets it, unless it is the player who conceded in which case they pass (like you mentioned above). If all players except one team has half-lost the game, then te game ends immediately.
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16:54:07 <zzo38> I would also get rid of rule 800.4n. (If players agreed before the game started that the winner can keep those cards (for whatever duration), then that will still apply, but the cards would no longer be a part of the game (e.g. Darkpact cannot be used to retrieve it, effects that count the number of cards in ante zone do not count it, etc).)
16:57:07 <zzo38> Additionally, making half-leaving the game into full-leaving the game should also apply before turn-based actions are checked and before any object in the stack would begin to resolve.
17:01:44 <int-e> . o O ( What happens if all players half-left the game and there's a choice to be made? )
17:02:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: the reason why I added the rule that effects causing the half-left player to control another player ends is only for the stupid edge case when they're controlling the next player in turn order and so there's a loop in determining who makes choices for the half-left player
17:04:18 <b_jonas> but a secondary effect is that we don't want to give the replacement decider too much power, the main limit on that is that the half-dead player doesn't get priority, but the replacement decider (I guess I should call them a steward) suddenly at least seeing another player's hand and possibly being able to cast instants in their name if they happen to have priority is weird
17:05:01 <b_jonas> also it would lead to a situation where you're technically making decisions for another player as a steward but can't see what's in their hand
17:05:51 <b_jonas> I'm not sure what "effects causing that player to control someone do not end yet but are ignored." means. what would be the difference?
17:07:04 <b_jonas> "If all players except one team has half-lost the game, then te game ends immediately." => I'll have to think about that, that might be a good rule
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17:07:41 <b_jonas> "If any player has priority then state-based actions are checked immediately, just before the player who currently has priority gets it," => you have a point, so some of the alternate rules I said about priority might be redundant
17:09:42 <b_jonas> "Additionally, making half-leaving the game into full-leaving the game should also apply [...] before any object in the stack would begin to resolve." => I think that only happens after a pass, and a pass only happens after sba were checked in a loop, so that's redundant.
17:10:07 <b_jonas> int-e: "What happens if all players half-left the game and there's a choice to be made?" => oh, good question
17:10:09 <int-e> . o O ( Valve and WotC present: Half-Life: the Gathering )
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17:15:02 <b_jonas> int-e: as for terminology, yes, ideally we'd want only two terms instead of the three "leaves the game", "half-leaves the game", "loses the game", with "loses the game" meaning what I use "half-leaves play" means here.
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17:20:05 <b_jonas> and the game ends rule should probably be "If every player half-left the game then the game ends, the game is a draw, and all players and teams tournament-rule-won. Otherwise if every player from all but one team half-left the game then the game ends, that one team and all its players tournament-rule-won, all other teams and their players tournament-rule-lost."
17:22:09 <b_jonas> on one hand, "loses the game" should ideally be the term used for half-leaves the game, the thing that happens immediately, and the thing that Platinum Angel's effect should inhibit, so that the text of Platinum Angel and Door of Destinies can say "loses the game" and sound nice
17:23:20 <b_jonas> but on the other hand, you should make clear that if someone left the game and their teammate wins then they won the game in the tournament rules sense and didn't lose the game in the tournament rules sense, so there is something else that you might want to call "loses the game"
17:24:11 <b_jonas> I'd probably just say "CR-loses the game" for the former (half-leaves the game), and "tournament-loses the game" for the latter, but those are developer terms that probably shouldn't go to an official CR
17:26:53 <b_jonas> also I would have to check the CR for references to "loses the game" and "left play" in case they need to be modified with those alt rules; and also carefully read the finer points of 800.4 in case there's anything else that really ought to happen immediately
17:27:18 <b_jonas> as well as possibly other variant rules elsewhere that need to be modified for this
17:33:15 <b_jonas> somewhat different M:tG CR question. you know how the CR tries to have these invariants where (1) if all players know the rules and oracle texts perfectly then you can play the game without a judge, and (2) if one player knows the rule and oracle texts perfectly and can think fast enough then they can verify that no other player made a mistake or cheated by lying about game state (as opposed to cheated
17:33:21 <b_jonas> by sleight of hand), at least they can do so retroactively right after the end of the game when they can check that face-down permanents that were played with morph indeed had morph?
17:34:37 <b_jonas> and (2) applies even to outsiders examining public information or players who have left the game too, not just players
17:35:02 <b_jonas> my question is mostly, what are hard cases for these invariants, where either they break or they are close to breaking and hard to do
17:35:29 <b_jonas> there are probably some involving objects exiled face down
17:36:17 <b_jonas> and/or involving face-down permanents and/or involving permanents whose controller changed
17:39:21 <b_jonas> I phrased this a bit awkwardly but you can probably understand what I meant
17:41:51 <b_jonas> btw I have to admit the one drawback of the rule modifications that I suggested: the original rules are slight better in that if a player concedes because they have to leave quickly, they can take their physical cards with them earlier in some edge cases without confusing the other players too much
17:43:18 <b_jonas> to partly fix that, we could add the rule that if someone concedes while someone else has priority, then the priority is interrupted, the player half-leaves the game then sba are checked in a loop, then the player who had priority gets priority again
17:50:05 <b_jonas> or the better way to do this would be: if someone concedes at a time when it's trivially easy to reroll the game to the point when an sba loop ended (so no decisions were announced since that, nobody looked at hidden information that they didn't know yet, nobody generated randomness, there wasn't a large amount of computation or physical activity done, nobody was just about to announce their decision
17:50:11 <b_jonas> after a lot of thinking etc) then the decision is interrupted, the game is rolled back to right after the sba loop, then the sba are rechecked in a loop (so that the player who conceded can leave the game).
17:54:18 <b_jonas> another modification could be that if a player who half-left the game needs to make a decision, then the steward that makes the decision instead of them isn't necesarily the next player in turn order, but the next player in turn order who is their teammate and hasn't half-left the game, and if there's no such player, then the steward is the next player in turn order who hasn't left the game
17:55:00 <b_jonas> this is a minimal change but would read better
18:36:53 <esolangs> [[4DChess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94420&oldid=78601 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2909) Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
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18:39:12 <esolangs> [[4DChess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94421&oldid=94420 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+263) Introduced an examples section, containing the Hello, World! program as its incipient member.
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20:25:00 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94422&oldid=94419 * FrankPujo * (+826)
20:26:13 <river> is there a memetic hazard that only becomes one when it is explicitly labelled as one?
20:49:56 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94423&oldid=94390 * FrankPujo * (+207)
21:39:56 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo/Circle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94424 * FrankPujo * (+1023) Created page with "The Circle is a concept for a new esoteric Data Type. Note that the following code (explicative to how a Circle would work as a Class) is not created in any particular progra..."
21:42:28 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94425&oldid=94423 * FrankPujo * (+121)
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22:07:01 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo/Circle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94426&oldid=94424 * FrankPujo * (+8)
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23:54:37 <esolangs> [[Brook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94427&oldid=35938 * Arctenik * (-1) /* Examples */ Fix(?) example program - see talk page
23:54:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:Brook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94428&oldid=24758 * Arctenik * (+872) /* A couple notes on unclear aspects */ new section
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2022-04-03
00:41:54 <chibi> haihai
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07:11:21 <esolangs> [[Q-SET]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94430&oldid=94413 * Peter * (-8)
07:11:50 <esolangs> [[Q-SET]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94431&oldid=94430 * Peter * (-10)
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08:46:08 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94433&oldid=94432 * FrankPujo * (+0)
08:48:43 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94434&oldid=94433 * FrankPujo * (+229)
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10:34:21 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94436&oldid=94425 * FrankPujo * (+82)
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13:42:19 <esolangs> [[QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94437&oldid=91165 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+48) Add categories
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15:28:33 <b_jonas> `ftoc 100
15:28:35 <HackEso> 100.00°F = 37.78°C
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17:33:59 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo/Tritwise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94439 * FrankPujo * (+1169) Created page with "Everything listed here is just my take on Tritwise Operations. A lot of the gates are taken from [[TriINTERCAL]] == Operators == ==== TAND ==== Corresponds to Bitwise AND. Re..."
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17:43:37 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo/Tritwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94440&oldid=94439 * FrankPujo * (+693)
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18:40:24 <zzo38> I can think of two other circumstances where a player should be able to leave the game (according to the specifications above): [1] Just before any phase/step. [2] At the same time a subgame is ending, if the player has conceded the main game during the subgame.
18:43:27 <zzo38> For what you mean by "half-leaves play" I might suggest just "leaves the game" though, and what you mentioned they leave the game, as that player (and all objects that player owns) "ceases to exist" (although some or all of them might still exist in the match, or in the main game if this is a subgame, etc).
18:48:13 <zzo38> I don't like the term "tournament-loses the game" for game rules, since that would suggest something which should be outside of the scope of the game rules (that it would be match rules and/or tournament rules instead).
18:55:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: "half-leaves play" was a mistake, I think I only mentioned it once. I used "half-leaves the game" but it is indeed not a very good term.
18:56:17 <b_jonas> "play" refers to the battlefield and is not relevant here
18:58:47 <zzo38> I had also wanted some other terminology that Magic: the Gathering does not currently have, such as: [1] To refer to objects and players together. [2] To refer to the entire main game including subgames and restarted games, as a whole. [3] The mana step when you get a chance to activate mana abilities without priority (I used "mana step"). [4] The five cards Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest (I used "conventional basic land").
19:15:44 <chibi> Oh, is this the "Turing Complete MTG" idea?
19:18:14 <zzo38> This is something else relating to Magic: the Gathering
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19:19:22 <chibi> Ah.
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19:25:03 <zzo38> Do you have other ideas about it?
19:26:48 <chibi> nome.
19:27:14 <b_jonas> chibi: no, but we discussed that too on this channel
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2022-04-04
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01:14:54 <esolangs> [[G*]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94441&oldid=81041 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+72) Add categories
01:29:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheJazzCat * New user account
01:32:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94442&oldid=94418 * TheJazzCat * (+176) /* Introductions */
01:37:43 <esolangs> [[Mail]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94443 * TheJazzCat * (+202) Setting up the page
01:40:23 <esolangs> [[Mail]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94444&oldid=94443 * TheJazzCat * (+20) Added credit
01:57:07 <shachaf> oren: Of possible interest: https://learn.adacore.com/courses/whats-new-in-ada-2022/chapters/assignment_target.html
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02:58:28 <zzo38> That feature is something that I had considered before for wanting in other programming languages too, actually.
04:18:49 <esolangs> [[Semicolon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94445&oldid=33138 * Dorcelessness * (+10) added stub
04:22:32 <chibi> I'm feeling some varination myself.
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11:14:03 <fizzie> Heh: https://harrisongoldste.in/papers/cha-cha-slide.pdf
11:23:22 <river> lol
11:25:00 <Corbin> "We have not formalized these results in LPC or Agda, as that would be a massive waste of time."
12:09:34 <esolangs> [[UBLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94446&oldid=94398 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+111)
12:11:11 <esolangs> [[UBLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94447&oldid=94446 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+60)
12:40:59 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94448&oldid=94037 * CappyIsCrappy * (+47) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */
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13:26:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Python is Magic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94449 * Monochromeninja * (+1662) /* Equivalent to Python */ new section
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13:51:39 <esolangs> [[Objectd]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94450 * LEOMOK * (+1) Created page with "t"
14:00:16 <esolangs> [[Objectd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94451&oldid=94450 * LEOMOK * (+523)
14:06:25 <esolangs> [[Objectd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94452&oldid=94451 * LEOMOK * (+291)
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14:26:54 <esolangs> [[Mail]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94453&oldid=94444 * TheJazzCat * (+1138) Added some example programs
14:29:04 <esolangs> [[Mail]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94454&oldid=94453 * TheJazzCat * (+139) Memory
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14:52:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Adrianowead * New user account
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16:36:55 <esolangs> [[Something?Oops!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94455&oldid=56572 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+198) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Something?Oops! programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
16:40:11 <esolangs> [[Something?Oops!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94456&oldid=94455 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-1) Corrected the Truth-machine example, which would skip the printing of 1 based upon a wrong line jumping.
16:41:21 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo/Tritwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94457&oldid=94440 * FrankPujo * (+0) /* DIST */
16:41:53 <esolangs> [[Something?Oops!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94458&oldid=94456 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+140) Added as a second example a simple counter program.
16:42:19 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo/Tritwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94459&oldid=94457 * FrankPujo * (+0) /* THEN */
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17:44:37 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94460&oldid=93126 * Digital Hunter * (+292) /* Roman numerals */ found a shorter one. Made the original one less short for clarity.
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20:39:41 <esolangs> [[Something?Oops!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94461&oldid=94458 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+985) Divided the specification into sections, reformatted the variable list, and added further information.
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22:15:57 <b_jonas> what day of the week is it, fungot?
22:15:57 <fungot> b_jonas: or probably 19"
22:45:43 <fizzie> Pretty long weeks.
22:47:10 <int-e> A sizeable calendar.
22:47:44 <int-e> fungot: how many colors are there in the rainbow
22:47:44 <fungot> int-e: process 1 killed. i'm happy about the cons comment :p)
22:48:38 <Corbin> fungot: is it saint tibs day yet?
22:48:38 <fungot> Corbin: i know quite well what call/ cc,
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23:14:10 <Melvar> <shachaf> Of possible interest: https://learn.adacore.com/courses/whats-new-in-ada-2022/chapters/assignment_target.html – In languages with lambdas, you can just have a modify operator that takes a lambda.
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23:15:14 <Melvar> @type modifyIORef
23:15:15 <lambdabot> error:
23:15:15 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: modifyIORef
23:15:15 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
23:15:19 <Melvar> Aw.
23:16:38 <Melvar> modifyIORef :: IORef a -> (a -> a) -> IO ()
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23:19:43 <int-e> @type Data.IORef.modifyIORef
23:19:44 <lambdabot> GHC.IORef.IORef a -> (a -> a) -> IO ()
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2022-04-05
00:02:24 <Corbin> Is this turing-complete? http://bitgrid.blogspot.com/2005/03/bitgrid-in-25-words-or-less.html
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00:11:12 <int-e> wtf does "One lookup table per neighbor" mean
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00:16:27 <Corbin> I'm still looking for details. http://bitgrid.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-bitgrid-sim-version-003.html links to Google's old forge. (Remember when Google ran a forge and then destroyed it and 404'd everything? Good times.)
00:17:25 <int-e> Oh I guess I get it. On each cycle, ech cell on the grid receives four inputs and produces four outputs for the neighbours according to a lookup table (FPGA style). That link seems to confirm that...
00:18:13 <int-e> So there's an awkware parity phenomonon (if you color cells in a checkerboard, information in white cells can never affect information in black cells)
00:19:11 <int-e> But since the LUTs are per cell... this should be able to simulate arbitrary clocked circuits with some polynomial slowdown
00:20:00 * int-e waves hands
00:22:23 <int-e> To keep things esoteric... maybe a GoL unit cell is a good target.
00:23:20 <int-e> (That is, a bitgrid unit cell that simulates a GoL cell)
00:23:24 <Corbin> Hm. That's a little tricky, actually, since we have to add the diagonals.
00:24:28 <int-e> A challenge? :P
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00:28:19 <int-e> it does seem rather awkward to work with... I think mostly because the cells being stateless
00:30:03 <Corbin> I can't figure out how to pack the diagonal cell information into the spare three bits. There must be a trick to it.
00:30:58 <int-e> "spare three bits"
00:31:52 <chibi> 3 bits == 8 possibilities yeah?
00:33:48 <chibi> And you have eight neighbors...hm
00:34:57 <chibi> but if you have more than 1 live neighbor, that kind of naive implementation falls apart
00:36:09 <chibi> If you only are working with diagonals though, then you have 4 neighbors
00:37:31 <chibi> but that's still 4^2 possibilities? I think?
00:37:44 * chibi brain is made of cotton stuffing
00:39:03 <Corbin> I was assuming that one bit would go to the direct neighbors. And Conway's rule can be encoded in the LUT. All that's missing is some way of iteratively packing up diagonal neighbors and propagating them.
00:42:32 <int-e> Here's an alternative way of thinking about this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/bitgrid.png ...we have a grid (of bits, black and white cells). Each circle represents one of the bitgrid cells. On even generations, the red circles fire... replacing the four bits that they touch by four new ones (a function 2^4 -> 2^4; 16^16 possibilities). On odd generations, the blue circles fire in the same way.
00:43:29 <int-e> This is half of the state... there's a second such evolution with different bits on the grid and red circles firing on odd generations, blue circles firing on even generations.
00:45:13 <int-e> I think disentangling those two independent parts of the state should help, even if the 45 degree shift in perspective may be a bit confusing.
00:58:04 <int-e> Hmm. To represent those rules, maybe x 4x4 grid of 2x2 results is appropriate? It'll be hard to read in any case. But it should be better than those checkboxes that disconnect related entries.
01:05:51 <int-e> Hmm... I'm afraid this will get annoyingly big.
01:14:16 <int-e> oh, maybe mot
01:14:18 <int-e> not
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01:59:02 <b_jonas> is there a theorem where it's impossible to create a successful dynamically typed language, because if one would become popular, people always corrupt it with some just-in-time compilers that compile it as if it were typed to optimize and with language extensions to add static types?
02:05:59 <zzo38> I don't know of any such theorem
02:06:27 <zzo38> Although I had heard of similar thing that there will be a problem that will be if it is popular
02:11:06 <b_jonas> so far it's happened to at least python and javascript
02:13:25 <zzo38> Yes, it is
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03:32:03 <shachaf> Melvar: I would not want to write "modify var (\x -> x + 1)", or probably even "modify var (+1)", rather than "var += 1".
03:32:32 <shachaf> Anyway, I was referring to a specific language feature they'd discussed before sort of similar to this.
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03:43:14 <Melvar> Oh, apologies for going off on a tangent then. Just noting that it’s an alternate way to make especially the example with multiple @ on the rhs work with potentially more flexibility and less special syntax.
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03:54:11 <b_jonas> calm down, nobody is trying to take away your +=s
03:56:47 <Melvar> @type (+=)
03:56:48 <lambdabot> (MonadState s m, Num a) => ASetter' s a -> a -> m ()
03:57:07 <Melvar> There it is.
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03:57:51 <b_jonas> hmm, maybe we need an april fools proposal to remove the += operator from C++. nobody is using it anyway now that we can just write std::replace_with(&var, std::bind(std::plus, std::_1, 1)); instead of x+=1;
03:58:23 <b_jonas> sigbovik is this Friday by the way
03:59:54 <b_jonas> though I think it would be std::exchange_with instead of std::replace_with
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09:27:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94463&oldid=94442 * YoavLavi * (+146) Introduction
09:27:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94464&oldid=94412 * YoavLavi * (+13)
09:30:02 <Corbin> b_jonas: FWIW the part of Python that makes the JIT (PyPy) is not really connected to the part that makes static types (MyPy). I'm not completely sure, but I think that JS JITs are the same way, not really using TypeScript.
09:30:42 <esolangs> [[Melody]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94465 * YoavLavi * (+156) Created page with "[[Category:Languages]] {{infobox proglang |name=Melody |author=[[Yoav Lavi]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |files=<code>.melody</code>, <code>.mdy</code> }}"
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13:38:38 <esolangs> [[BEN++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94481 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+726) Created page with "'''BEN++''' is language by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08|ChuckEsoteric08]] that based on game "My Talking Ben". ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- | yes || increments cell under th..."
13:42:31 <int-e> Hmm. So I have a GoL evaluation function in 40-ish bitgrid cells
13:43:40 <int-e> Now I "just" have to route the signals. (I can deal with corners and diagonal adjacency; the tedious part will be to synchornizing the path lengths)
13:48:09 <Soni> hmm, can you make a programming language where everything is fields?
13:49:00 <Soni> everything must be algebra, everything must be infinitely refactorable
13:49:28 <Soni> code built for editing
13:49:50 <Soni> programming language built for refactoring
13:50:39 <int-e> . o O ( it's refactoring all the way down. you never actually run the code. )
13:50:42 <Soni> yes we know about math and calculus but like, those are too pure
13:51:06 <Soni> how do you dx/dt an io function, y'know?
13:51:30 <int-e> of course that's getting dangerously close to metaprogramming. or substitution calculi... like the lambda calculus...
13:51:45 <int-e> Soni: easy. I don't :P
13:52:14 <Soni> dprint/dt
13:52:28 <Soni> :p
13:52:38 <int-e> continuous time is an illusion anyway
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14:51:32 <Corbin> Soni: Those are four different questions!
15:15:43 <int-e> great... I have 8 signals arriving at the gate simultaneously.
15:16:18 <int-e> now for the hard part :-P
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15:18:28 <int-e> (the output signal has to be routed as well... and it will cross the other signals. crossing is easy in principle, but I need to modify the paths a little bit for that to work out...
15:26:12 <b_jonas> and you need to send the output signal 8 ways
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15:27:26 <b_jonas> I'm still proud about my silly perl game of life evaluator
15:30:04 <b_jonas> https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395 and https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/112163
15:30:29 <int-e> b_jonas: righ. but duplication is also not a big deal
15:30:33 <int-e> *right
15:31:17 <int-e> The problem is notation :P
15:32:10 <int-e> What I have looks like this... http://paste.debian.net/1236899/ ...each symbol denotes a different bitgrid cell
15:32:35 <int-e> the output (unrouted) is produced by the *
15:36:15 <int-e> I should probably make this a bit bigger
15:49:41 <int-e> hmm is there a script with a mirrored Z?
15:49:50 <int-e> (like И is a mirrored N)
15:51:37 <int-e> I guess '5' is an option.
15:54:11 <int-e> Or S, duh.
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18:05:30 <int-e> phew. http://paste.debian.net/1236909/
18:09:51 <int-e> Or, more usefully, https://gist.github.com/int-e/c1b40dbed8a39a20dfc1d94fc25226b2 (includes Haskell code to actually do something with that cell...)
18:12:46 <int-e> Corbin: So I claim to have a GoL unit cell for that bitgrid thingy.
18:19:28 <river> s
18:19:30 <int-e> only 5 hours for routing
18:19:35 <int-e> :/
18:19:39 <int-e> (so tedious)
18:21:50 <int-e> The thing is... you'd expect the hard part to be the evaluation function (9 bits input, horrible circuit, blah)... but actually the circuit becomes very regular if you start with a sorting network for the 8 neighbours (the = stands for a comperator in the network) and after that it's just 3 more boolean operations.
18:22:21 <int-e> And after that it's all about timing.
18:29:15 <int-e> maybe there's a simpler way... there's ~1M possible cell functions and I'm only using a dozen or so...
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18:47:58 <Corbin> int-e: Wow, nice work. While I couldn't replicate your construction, I'm convinced that Bitgrid (as we understand it) is Turing-complete. Very cool.
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18:51:30 <int-e> well, given an infinite grid of them (with a periodic setup, in the case of that unit cell)
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21:23:19 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94482&oldid=94460 * Digital Hunter * (-18) /* Roman numerals */ shorter one
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22:22:09 <b_jonas> so what's this bitgrid thing? the wiki doesn't seem to tell
22:22:34 <b_jonas> `? bitgrid
22:22:37 <HackEso> bitgrid? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:22:44 <int-e> http://bitgrid.blogspot.com/2005/03/bitgrid-in-25-words-or-less.html
22:23:42 <b_jonas> hmm
22:23:50 <int-e> As far as we can make out... the idea is that you have a grid of cells; on each cycle, each cell receives a bit from each of its four neighbours, and uses a lookup-table to compute outputs to those neighbours for the next cycle
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22:23:57 <int-e> each cell has its own lookup-tables
22:24:16 <int-e> so it's a bit FPGA like, but terribly inefficient when it comes to data transport
22:25:32 <b_jonas> yeah, it's hard to cross signals that way
22:25:53 <int-e> Nah, you just make a cell that copies bits from one side to the opposite side
22:26:09 <int-e> (each output has its own lookup-table; I wasn't clear about that)
22:26:09 <b_jonas> huh?
22:26:18 <b_jonas> oh, there are separate outputs?
22:26:19 <b_jonas> I see
22:26:23 <b_jonas> that's a bit better
22:27:32 <int-e> So.. if you play around with this a bit you'll notice that the state is separated into two parts that never interact; if you color the cells in a checkerboard fashion, bits sent from white to black cells determine the bits sent from black to white cells on the next cycle, and vice versa
22:28:08 <b_jonas> yeah
22:28:31 <int-e> So you can restrict the analysis to having bits sent from white to black cells on one cycle, and from black to white cells on another. Turn things by 45 degrees and you get something like https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/bitgrid.png
22:29:23 <int-e> (blue circles and red circles are the white and black cells; the grid can hold the bits. On even cycles, the red circles modify the 4 bits they touch; on odd cycles, the blue circles do the same.)
22:29:50 <int-e> That view is what I'm actually using for my unit cell.
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22:32:48 <int-e> It's still weird, but not having two non-interacting worlds at the same time helps, I think.
22:36:17 <int-e> Corbin: what did you mean by "replicate"?
22:38:58 <Corbin> int-e: I mean that I tried to work it out for myself, got confused, and gave up. But I'm impressed by how far you got.
22:39:40 <int-e> I almost ran out of unicode symbols :-P
22:42:32 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1236909/ (many of these are visual, operating on 2x2 square: X swaps opposite bits; ↺ rotates the square left, Z is a 4-cycle that follows the Z and then jumps back from the bottom right to the top left... S is the opposite. half-arrows move one bit on the side the hook is on. And so... I think that about covers it except for = (comparator), & (logical and), | (logical...
22:42:38 <int-e> ...or) and * (not-and), with flow form left to right...)
22:43:24 <int-e> The main point of the gist was to have those things actually defined, https://gist.github.com/int-e/c1b40dbed8a39a20dfc1d94fc25226b2#file-bitgrid-hs-L7-L41
22:45:15 <int-e> (but I guess it won't make sense unless you also know how to visualize those functions)
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2022-04-06
00:20:49 <b_jonas> aaaaaaa
00:22:07 <b_jonas> more levels with stupid visual gimmicks. WHY?
00:22:36 <b_jonas> (I'm playing Patrick's Paradox and just entered Genafsre 27 but I think I'll just skip it for now)
00:24:37 <b_jonas> (I completed Ersrerapr 11 and 12 already and I was hoping there won't be too many of these stupid things.)
00:35:47 <int-e> . o O ( s/d/b/ )
00:47:30 <b_jonas> "completeb"?
00:56:38 <int-e> b_jonas: no, the message before that
00:57:36 <int-e> maybe I should've written -2s/d/b/ ?
00:57:42 * int-e shrugs
01:04:15 <b_jonas> ah yes, s/dox/box/
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02:27:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Desmond54321 * New user account
02:29:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94483&oldid=94463 * Desmond54321 * (+279) /* Introductions */
02:38:18 <esolangs> [[Piet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94484&oldid=94386 * Desmond54321 * (+33) Clarified the Roll operation
03:03:29 <b_jonas> ah good. I asked for sparse linear program solver software earlier. I didn't realize I should have looked in http://plato.asu.edu/sub/pns.html , in which the relevant subpage is http://plato.asu.edu/sub/nlores.html and in that under heading "PURE LP SOLVERS"
03:03:33 <b_jonas> that will help
03:08:09 <b_jonas> jesus why is numerical software always so complicated?
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03:12:45 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jeongseoanjeong * New user account
03:18:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94485&oldid=94483 * Jeongseoanjeong * (+236) /* Introductions */
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04:39:20 <zzo38> I had thought also about the bitgrid yesterday too. At first I did not understand either, until I saw the example
04:41:27 <zzo38> I had also thought about implementing it in Free Hero Mesh, although (unless you use level strings), in the level editor each object will only have fifty-one bits of initial state (other than the class, image, coordinates, and maybe the data types but this is harder to use for this purpose)
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05:58:01 <zzo38> Will bitgrid be mentioned in esolang wiki? I would think to make it Turing-complete, you will have a infinite grid with a repeating pattern, maybe
05:58:49 <zzo38> Are some kinds of things that could be done, which will be Turing-complete if you have two patterns repeated by Thue-Morse?
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11:52:15 <b_jonas> int-e: btw if you allow a non-repeating top and left part, you can just simulate nopfunge in bitgrid. it's very wasteful, I know.
11:54:05 <int-e> ah, cute
12:05:00 <river> i got through the main line of patricks parabox
12:06:02 <river> v jbhyq erpbzzraq vg. vg'f irel avpr naq fvzcyr va vgf pbaprcg. naq vg rkcyberf nyy gur ybtvpny pbapyhfvbaf bs gung pbaprcg. Nygubhtu gur yriryf ner irel rnfl. Ohg va n jnl gung vf avpr pbzcnerq gb bgure chmmyrf V'ir orra qbvat.
12:38:31 <int-e> fungot: why are there different programming languages, surely things would be easier if they all were the same ;-)
12:38:31 <fungot> int-e: i am the sad truth, don't you?
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13:14:09 <b_jonas> heh https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/diary/april_2022.html#april_2
13:15:16 <river> sdfgsdfg
13:15:36 <river> not the pictures above, just the right hand rule
13:16:02 <b_jonas> no no, sdfg is left hand
13:16:13 <b_jonas> this is right hand, ;lkj;lkj
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13:26:40 <fizzie> fungot: I quite like the term "sad truth".
13:26:40 <fungot> fizzie: huh.......interesting....... that'd be enter... ok, i'll look for those and improve the page?
13:32:29 <b_jonas> fungot, do you have a left hand and a right hand?
13:32:29 <fungot> b_jonas: how? you don't even mention it there, why should nonsence make sence? most people i know run the beta even on amd machines... wee unbound variable...
13:33:20 <b_jonas> unbound or unsound, fungot?
13:33:21 <fungot> b_jonas: with tea, yummy. until then the table has no way to do it
13:39:54 <definitelya> nonsence nice
13:44:44 <esolangs> [[StackX]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94486 * LEOMOK * (+5867) Created page with "StackX is a [[stack]]-based programming language based on [[Getchl]], [[Befunge]] and [[fish|><>]]. == Command List {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Header text !! Header text !!..."
13:44:53 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94487&oldid=94486 * LEOMOK * (+3)
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14:08:00 <int-e> phew... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/bitgrid_blinker.gif
14:09:34 <int-e> Corbin: you might like this
14:10:49 <b_jonas> int-e: nice. write a wiki article.
14:11:31 <river> cool!!!
14:11:52 <b_jonas> so the sorter part goes from left to right?
14:12:03 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94493&oldid=94492 * LEOMOK * (+133)
14:12:09 <int-e> b_jonas: yep
14:12:46 <river> I never knew this was happening inside game of life cells
14:12:53 <Corbin> int-e: I think you've won Bitgrid.
14:12:56 <int-e> river: hah
14:13:11 <river> it has a strange charm to it
14:13:50 <int-e> I like that you can see the cell state propagate outwards... and then die, in most cells
14:14:46 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94494&oldid=94493 * LEOMOK * (+68)
14:15:07 <int-e> b_jonas: thinking about it, but writing code is easier :P
14:17:38 <int-e> b_jonas: Also, I'm sure this can be golfed substantially, but... it's already messy. So I won't try, I'm happy it works.
14:20:54 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94495&oldid=94494 * LEOMOK * (+117)
14:22:04 <int-e> Oh and this thing pipelines perfectly... so if you like, you can have 32 GoL universes in parallel (64 without the separation of the state by parity)
14:22:52 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94496&oldid=94495 * LEOMOK * (-39)
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14:29:50 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94497&oldid=94496 * LEOMOK * (-122)
14:36:14 <b_jonas> makes sense
14:46:24 <int-e> Anyway... here's the corresponding code: https://gist.github.com/int-e/c1b40dbed8a39a20dfc1d94fc25226b2#file-bitgrid-py
14:50:43 <int-e> new discovery: gifsicle
14:52:35 <river> Q: How do you pronounce “gifsicle”?
14:52:37 <river> A: “Yo’ mama.”
14:53:19 <int-e> Yeah... I decided not to ask about the name.
14:54:00 <int-e> But I'm not complaining about ~1.8x compression.
14:56:00 <river> https://gist.github.com/int-e/c1b40dbed8a39a20dfc1d94fc25226b2#file-bitgrid-py-L6 ah I see
14:56:52 <river> it is indeed like an FPGA
14:57:00 <int-e> yes
14:59:58 <int-e> > 16^16
14:59:59 <lambdabot> 18446744073709551616
15:01:02 <int-e> Oh, right. That's 2^64 possible gates... I suck at math.
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15:19:10 <b_jonas> int-e: or you can consider them four gates in each cell, each chosen from one of 65536 possible gate types
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15:23:48 <int-e> sure, but that's less impressive ;)
15:26:07 <int-e> Anyway, there's a question in whether any of those configurations, used uniformly for all gates, makes bitgrid TC. I have no clue :) (It also comes with the usual messiness associated with intializing infinite grids.)
15:29:36 <int-e> Corbin: Btw, https://bitgrid.blogspot.com/2005/03/bitgrid-story.html has a proper description of BitGrid (matching our understanding)
15:45:42 <esolangs> [[Apers Assembly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94498&oldid=92850 * Bertrahm * (-35)
15:59:52 <b_jonas> int-e: so do we know where this bitgrid comes from?
16:00:01 <b_jonas> like who invented it and when was it first published?
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16:00:57 <int-e> As far as I can make out that blogspot site is the original
16:02:53 <b_jonas> yeah, that's wha it looks like
16:11:45 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94499 * B jonas * (+1024) Created page with "'''BitGrid''' is a low-level programming language. The runtime is made of cells in a square grid that do computation on a globally synchronized clock. Each cell gets a boo..."
16:11:51 <b_jonas> I made a basic wiki page for it
16:12:03 <b_jonas> feel free to extend with like example programs or implementations or whatever
16:14:10 <int-e> +1024 <-- nice
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17:36:28 <int-e> ah, this again. '".svg" is not a permitted file type. Permitted file types are png, gif, jpg, jpeg, webp.'
17:38:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:BitGrid45.png]]": part of a BitGrid with gates oriented diagonally
17:50:06 <river> > four rook-neighbors
17:50:09 <lambdabot> error:
17:50:09 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: four :: t0 -> a
17:50:09 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘for’ (imported from Data.Traversable)error:
17:50:13 <river> hm..
17:50:18 <river> it's a little awkward
17:50:35 <river> i can't think of a better description
17:51:16 <river> I did not undersatnd this part "The runtime state of Bitgrid happens to factorize to two disconnected components in a Crypt of the Necromancer style flashing checkerboard pattern."
17:53:59 <fizzie> Hmm.
17:54:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:BitGridBlinker.gif]]": BitGrid simulating a blinker in Game of Life.
17:54:47 <fizzie> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Image_administration#SVG might be worth a look.
17:54:58 <fizzie> It's 2022, we should be able to have vectors instead of rasters.
17:56:33 <fizzie> Although from the way that's worder, it'd still just render into PNGs for clients.
17:56:56 <fizzie> "Using librsvg to render SVGs to a PNG will give much more accurate results, as well as less bandwidth consumption." A sad truth.
17:57:40 <int-e> "less bandwidth consumption" depends a lot on the source though
17:58:27 <int-e> I'm okay with it being rendered as png... it's just a bit sad to have a scaleable source and having to compromise on a (relatively) high resolution png instead
18:17:43 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94502&oldid=94499 * Int-e * (+4819) add pictures and a thousand words
18:18:10 <int-e> not great yet, but it's a start
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18:22:54 <int-e> (I hate wikitables, they're so verbose. So... not today...)
18:23:57 <Corbin> b_jonas, int-e: Thank you so much for your hard work. I really appreciate not just your curiosity, but your note-taking.
18:29:09 <fizzie> . o O (Is that +4819 in bytes or in words?)
18:29:11 <b_jonas> river: feel free to edit it if it's unclear
18:29:38 <river> I can't improve it because i don't know what it means
18:29:59 <b_jonas> river: you know how each cell gets an input from its neighbors but not from itself
18:30:38 <b_jonas> so if you color the whole grid to a checkerboard dark and light pattern, then take several rounds of evaluation, then each cell only gets input from the value of dark cells or the value of light cells
18:30:56 <b_jonas> the program in both types of cells influences the result, but not the starting value in the other color of cells
18:30:59 <river> oh yes I see!
18:31:15 <b_jonas> the data goes from dark cell to light cell and vice versa in each clock cycle
18:34:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Int-e * uploaded "[[File:BitGridBlinkerSmall.gif]]": BitGrid simulating a blinker in Game of Life. See also [[https://esolangs.org/wiki/File:BitGridBlinker.gif]].
18:37:22 <esolangs> [[File:BitGridBlinkerSmall.gif]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94504&oldid=94503 * Int-e * (-25) /* Summary */ better link
18:38:17 <int-e> uh... did I break it?
18:42:55 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94505&oldid=94502 * Int-e * (+17) /* Game of Life */ embed smaller picture, link to larger one
18:45:21 <tromp> int-e: the boxchar output of blc stopped working for me:(
18:49:20 <int-e> I take it you don't like âââââ¬ââ¬ââ â¬ââ
18:49:46 <int-e> > hSetBinaryMode stdin True
18:49:48 <lambdabot> error:
18:49:48 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: hSetBinaryMode :: t0 -> Bool -> terror: Variable ...
18:49:53 * int-e mumbles
18:50:03 <int-e> that's stdin though
18:53:49 <tromp> ah, the setbinary mode :(
18:55:35 <int-e> oh
18:56:48 <tromp> yes, that is needed for boxchars, while preventing Unicode output of lambda :(
18:56:58 <int-e> yeah, I see now that it's double-UTF-encoding
18:57:49 <int-e> the solution is to just change `boxVar` to produce unicode characters (you can even put them in the source) and get rid of the `pref` there.
19:01:13 <int-e> huh. evidently I'm confused about how this works.
19:03:51 <int-e> tromp: Ah, here we go: http://paste.debian.net/1237024/
19:04:14 <int-e> (the `boxUtf8` can be elided, this is more about `boxVar` and `boxMid`)
19:05:28 <int-e> I guess I can just commit and push...
19:06:47 <tromp> hmmm, the spacing comes out weird for me
19:07:44 <tromp> yes, pls push
19:08:04 <int-e> oops. two commits, sorry
19:09:16 <int-e> I did test, but obviously I didn't look at the result very closely once the glaring misalignments were resolved
19:13:31 <tromp> thanks
19:21:19 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94506&oldid=94505 * Int-e * (+906) /* Game of Life */ add a bit of color
19:22:34 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94507&oldid=94506 * Int-e * (-27) /* Game of Life */ *sigh* one space is enough
19:22:58 <int-e> (I keep thinking that code blocks need two spaces)
19:36:23 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94508&oldid=94507 * Int-e * (+218) on visualization
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21:35:24 <int-e> fizzie: fwiw, that particular svg would z-compress down to about 800 bytes
21:36:43 <fizzie> Going forward, can we start calling it zompression? Like `zomplex`, the double-precision complex type on IRIX.
21:36:45 <int-e> it's 4.8k uncompressed... and that could be optimized a bit
21:37:56 <int-e> I guess the point here is, this is a bona fide and very simple vector graphic. no textures or other things like that that are hard to embed inside cvg.
21:38:13 <int-e> *svg
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21:39:43 <int-e> I'm just arguing against svg's wasting bandwidth. It's not hard to turn them into pngs for upload, just one extra step.
21:40:02 <int-e> So I don't *need* them to be accepted for upload :P
21:50:01 <b_jonas> int-e: which compressor format starting with z is that? there are like ten, z is probably the most popular letter for compressors besides maybe a
21:53:02 <fizzie> I'd like to reconfigure them as allowed, though. Because it just makes sense. But I'm so sleepy, I don't think I can right now.
22:00:37 <int-e> b_jonas: zlib stuff. I'm not precise, I'm thinking of something like Accept-Encoding: deflate, gzip
22:06:10 <zzo38> Even if a PNG is uploaded, you might want to include the SVG or PostScript source in case someone else wish to modify it, possibly.
22:09:29 <esolangs> [[HQ9+ C Function Interface]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94509 * Oshaboy * (+2024) Initial
22:09:58 <esolangs> [[HQ9+ C Function Interface]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94510&oldid=94509 * Oshaboy * (+0)
22:14:44 <int-e> fizzie: it is nice to have
22:14:44 <littlebobeep> I heard SVG is somehow not safe to implement due to billion laughs attack but I did not look into it much so I don't understand why it is unsafe
22:15:23 <esolangs> [[HQ9+ C Function Interface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94511&oldid=94510 * Oshaboy * (-34) /* Defines */
22:16:08 <int-e> Maybe, but what's one more DoS vector on a wiki... :P
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2022-04-07
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01:33:47 <zzo38> Do you like my ideas about "disable" ability for Magic: the Gathering, that I mentioned on this IRC a few days ago? What comments do you have about that, maybe an improvement could be made, or if there are questions, unclear, etc?
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02:28:30 <esolangs> [[Unnecessarily Large HQ9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94512 * Lemonz * (+3984) Created page with "<br> '''Unnecessarily Large HQ9+''', or '''(#=^TLSeVEAvUFqCcIXjZyK&DdraiO123478NBHghQ9w+-~*!?<`%>$)''' is an extension of [[HQ9+]] with too many commands for an example-only..."
02:28:43 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94513&oldid=94351 * Lemonz * (+31) /* My focus: joke languages!!! */
02:29:54 <esolangs> [[Unnecessarily Large HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94514&oldid=94512 * Lemonz * (+46)
03:03:58 <zzo38> I invented a alternative of RDF (and now also made up a text format and binary format that can be used), but what should be call?
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11:40:54 <river> https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/2d-an-exploration-of-drawing-as-programming-language-featuring-ideas-from-lambda-calculus/overview/ MIT discovers esolangs
12:07:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Stiathirs the Protogen * New user account
12:13:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94515&oldid=94485 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+286)
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13:37:34 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94516&oldid=94438 * FrankPujo * (+13)
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14:14:31 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94517&oldid=94508 * Int-e * (+159) /* Game of Life */ cosmetic changes. Should the cells be presented as a table? It would be rather big... ideas welcome.
14:16:05 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94518&oldid=94517 * Int-e * (+12) go with the times
14:16:41 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94519&oldid=94518 * Int-e * (+1) argh, missed one
14:16:53 <b_jonas> oh nice, you're improving the article
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14:18:56 <int-e> Yeah, a bit... just a couple of easy changes that I came up with overnight.
14:19:10 <int-e> I'm done for now.
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14:27:10 <int-e> Hmm how did we even discover this thing...
14:28:27 <int-e> I think Corbin was the first to bring it up here: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-04-05.html#l
14:29:38 <int-e> Corbin: So how did you find BitGrid?
14:30:30 <fizzie> Heh, thought an #l anchor must be a bug of some sort, but it was just the first line.
14:31:25 <int-e> :) it's still helpful because it highlights the message
14:32:54 <fizzie> Have to say I'm a little unhappy about the amount of markup in something like `<div id="lz" class="r"><span class="t">00:30:58</span><span class="s"> </span><span class="ma h7"><a href="#lz">&lt;int-e&gt;</a></span><span class="s"> </span><span class="mb">"spare three bits"</span></div>`
14:35:39 <fizzie> Less than 20% of the characters in that are outside a pair of <>s.
14:36:33 <int-e> that's kind of how it goes with HTML :/
14:43:37 <int-e> From a hardware design perspective... how do you initialize this thing? You need to provide lookup-tables, and possibly 4 bits of initial state (otherwise you may have to incorporate some sort of reset logic into your BitGrid circuits)
14:46:24 <int-e> (Oh well. I don't think this will revolutionize hardware design :P Take for example... routing. In practice, I expect most of the lookup-tables will just be an expensive way of copying one of the input bits.)
14:53:54 <Corbin> int-e: Conversation in #erights (E and related languages, capability security) often involves random retro machines. A regular found and shared the original link.
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16:57:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * McChuck * New user account
17:03:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94520&oldid=94515 * McChuck * (+221)
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18:42:05 <esolangs> [[User:Andrea Calligaris]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94521&oldid=89841 * Andrea Calligaris * (-6) Changed website URL with new one
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20:04:50 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94522&oldid=94480 * FrankPujo * (+1)
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21:03:34 <esolangs> [[NumSym]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94523 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+4219) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=NumSym |author=[[User:Stiathirs the Protogen]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |class=Not applicable |paradigms=imperative |dimensions=one-dimensional |..."
21:05:56 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94524&oldid=94464 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+13) Added NumSym to language list
21:09:50 <esolangs> [[NumSym]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94525&oldid=94523 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+101)
21:10:52 <esolangs> [[NumSym]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94526&oldid=94525 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (-9) /* Examples */
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21:20:27 <esolangs> [[NumSym]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94527&oldid=94526 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+272) Added /* Conditional Techniques */ section under /* Syntax */
21:22:49 <esolangs> [[User:Stiathirs the Protogen]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94528 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+124) Created page with "Hello! I am Stiathirs the Protogen, and I invented the esoteric programming language [[NumSym]]! That's all I've done yeah."
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2022-04-08
00:10:05 <zzo38> I wanted to add a new keyword ability into Magic: the Gathering, that the parameter must be the cost, and then when selecting the modes you can add that additional cost any number of times and each one will make a text changing effect on that spell of your choice like Magical Hack, Sleight of Mind, and Artificial Evolution.
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00:23:51 <esolangs> [[SYNTHESIZE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94529&oldid=94318 * Lemonz * (+81) /* FizzBuzz */
00:27:53 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94530&oldid=94513 * Lemonz * (+3)
01:21:52 <esolangs> [[BRUH]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94531 * Lemonz * (+2262) Created page with "'''BRUH''' Is an esoteric that only uses the letters <code>B</code>, <code>R</code>, <code>U</code>, and <code>H</code> for its 3 letter commands, with <code>B</code>, <code>R..."
01:38:25 <esolangs> [[BRUH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94532&oldid=94531 * Lemonz * (+619)
01:40:32 <esolangs> [[BRUH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94533&oldid=94532 * Lemonz * (+174)
01:40:54 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94534&oldid=94530 * Lemonz * (+11) /* Actually a thing language */
01:43:45 <esolangs> [[BRUH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94535&oldid=94533 * Lemonz * (+149) /* Adder */
01:46:29 <esolangs> [[BRUH]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94536&oldid=94535 * Lemonz * (+204)
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04:52:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Nakilon * uploaded "[[File:Esolang intersector demo screenshot.png]]"
05:01:14 <esolangs> [[User:Nakilon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94538&oldid=90267 * Nakilon * (+169) temporary changed the "categories intersector" web address; added a screenshot
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05:29:57 <zzo38> Is there a name for a pattern like "... GOSUB X; ... LABEL X ..." It seems similarly to a tail call but without needing a branch
06:23:22 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94539&oldid=94497 * LEOMOK * (+87)
06:24:19 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94540&oldid=94539 * LEOMOK * (+1)
06:25:03 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94541&oldid=94540 * LEOMOK * (+19)
06:25:52 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94542&oldid=94541 * LEOMOK * (+11)
06:25:59 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94543&oldid=94542 * LEOMOK * (+1)
06:27:25 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94544&oldid=94543 * LEOMOK * (+139)
06:28:25 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94545&oldid=94544 * LEOMOK * (+1)
06:38:14 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94546&oldid=94545 * LEOMOK * (+10)
06:39:01 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94547&oldid=94546 * LEOMOK * (-10)
06:41:48 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94548&oldid=94547 * LEOMOK * (-19)
06:42:24 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94549&oldid=94548 * LEOMOK * (+2)
06:42:55 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94550&oldid=94549 * LEOMOK * (+29)
06:43:29 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94551&oldid=94550 * LEOMOK * (-29)
06:50:09 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94552&oldid=94551 * LEOMOK * (-22)
06:50:28 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94553&oldid=94552 * LEOMOK * (+1)
06:50:43 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94554&oldid=94553 * LEOMOK * (+16)
07:06:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94555&oldid=37139 * LEOMOK * (+172) /* More operators */ new section
07:07:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94556&oldid=94555 * LEOMOK * (+24) /* More operators */
07:07:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94557&oldid=94556 * LEOMOK * (-3) /* More operators */
07:10:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94558&oldid=94557 * LEOMOK * (+30) /* More operators */
07:11:35 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94559&oldid=94558 * LEOMOK * (+128) /* More operators */
07:15:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94560&oldid=94559 * LEOMOK * (+277) /* More operators */
07:15:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94561&oldid=94560 * LEOMOK * (-40) /* More operators */
07:17:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94562&oldid=94561 * LEOMOK * (+8) /* More operators */
07:18:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94563&oldid=94562 * LEOMOK * (+65) /* More operators */
07:44:31 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94564&oldid=94554 * LEOMOK * (+0)
07:50:53 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94565&oldid=94564 * LEOMOK * (-44)
07:53:24 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94566&oldid=94565 * LEOMOK * (+73)
07:53:45 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94567&oldid=94566 * LEOMOK * (-2)
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08:06:22 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94568&oldid=94567 * LEOMOK * (-1)
08:06:32 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94569&oldid=94568 * LEOMOK * (+1)
08:06:49 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94570&oldid=94569 * LEOMOK * (-5)
08:06:54 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94571&oldid=94570 * LEOMOK * (+0)
08:07:05 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94572&oldid=94571 * LEOMOK * (+4)
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09:19:20 <esolangs> [[Hell69]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94573&oldid=75635 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+162) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Hell69 programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
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09:24:30 <esolangs> [[Hell69]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94574&oldid=94573 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+0) Rectified the first example calculation, as 41 multiplied by 69 yields 2829.
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09:28:22 <esolangs> [[Hell69]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94575&oldid=94574 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+88) Rectified the Hello, World! example, which hitherto would print HelldWdrld, to actually output Hello, World!.
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11:05:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: how is that a *tail* call? it looks like just a normal call
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12:56:23 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94576&oldid=94519 * Int-e * (+1708) Rule 110, using a single cell type.
13:00:44 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94577&oldid=94572 * LEOMOK * (-172)
13:04:02 <int-e> Corbin, b_jonas: Rule 110 in BitGrid (I think; we're in "beware of bugs in the above code, I've only proved it correct, not tested it" territory.)
13:04:21 <int-e> (see wiki)
13:04:48 <Corbin> What a great start to a Friday.
13:05:38 <int-e> I don't particularly like Rule 110 but it's a good target for the question what BitGrid can do with just a single cell type.
13:09:28 <b_jonas> int-e: ooh
13:20:17 <int-e> ...
13:20:33 <esolangs> [[Bitgrid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94578&oldid=94576 * Int-e * (+0) /* Rule 110 */ first bug found
13:21:57 <int-e> (That one was stupid. I had written "if t is set" and "if t is unset" and then changed those to "0" and "1", respectively, late in the editing process...)
13:21:59 <esolangs> [[StackX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94579&oldid=94577 * LEOMOK * (+144)
13:23:58 <Corbin> Nice work.
13:29:41 <int-e> It's also demonstrating that the 45 degree rotation, as much as I like it, isn't always helpful. :)
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17:12:50 <fizzie> fungot: What's your feeling about non-fungible tokens? I imagine you must be an expert of sorts?
17:12:50 <fungot> fizzie: but this makes programs less readable, wouldn't you agree that string-upcase, string-downcase, string-titlecase are appropriate to include in the base of feather as tarpitty as possible
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17:28:37 <zzo38> b_jonas: The first call is a normal call; the second call is not a call at all, it will just fall through
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19:06:41 <b_jonas> sigbovik starts in about two hours
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19:12:17 <fizzie> The Revision demoparty starts in about a week.
19:36:22 <zzo38> When is sigbovik available to download? Is it immediately at that time or later after that time?
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20:15:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know
20:15:26 <b_jonas> http://sigbovik.org/2022/ is their homepage
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20:29:01 <esolangs> [[NumSym]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94580&oldid=94527 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+139) /* Online Interpreter */
20:30:46 <esolangs> [[NumSym]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94581&oldid=94580 * Stiathirs the Protogen * (+19) /* Conditional Techniques */
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21:26:35 <zzo38> It seems, not yet, at least.
21:26:54 <zzo38> Although, I will check again if it is now; some time has passed since then
21:27:08 <zzo38> Still not yet.
21:27:20 <esolangs> [[Bugmaker]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94582&oldid=71447 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Interpreter */ Category
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21:56:12 <b_jonas> zzo38: live at https://www.twitch.tv/sigbovik (homepage links to it)
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21:56:21 <b_jonas> `sigboviklist
21:56:22 <HackEso> sigboviklist? No such file or directory
21:56:43 <b_jonas> I'm late apparently, it's been going on for 44 minutes
22:00:12 <river> https://twitter.com/JimPropp/status/1512543546577989636
22:00:43 <river> wow sigbovik!
22:05:22 <b_jonas> Tom7's talk starting right now
23:31:45 <Hooloovoo> hmm, is it recorded? I got on late since I was at an FRC competition
23:34:27 <b_jonas> sigbovik proceeding: http://sigbovik.org/2022/proceedings.pdf
23:35:16 <b_jonas> Hooloovoo: the pre-recorded talks are sorted to after the live talks, so the ones that you are watching now are pre-recorded;
23:35:47 <Hooloovoo> I see
23:36:05 <b_jonas> Hooloovoo: https://player.twitch.tv/?parent=a.a&video=1450229984 has the recording of the conference,
23:36:26 <b_jonas> I also expect that it will be uploaded to youtube some time after the conference concludes
23:36:40 <b_jonas> the conference hasn't ended yet
23:54:38 <b_jonas> well now it has ended; it hadn't ended when I typed that line
2022-04-09
00:10:16 <fizzie> Mph. The wiki's hosting provider has sent a rather confusing email about a migration; they got bought by a bigger company in 2017-2018, and this is about consolidating under the parent company's brand. The email mentions an automatic migration that failed because "SSH is inaccessible or filtered" (well, yeah), but is pretty unclear about next steps.
00:10:38 <fizzie> And I'm a little weirded out by the notion they'd just SSH into a customer's system and somehow automagically migrate it. Especially without giving any advance notice. (This is the first I've heard of the migration, and it says they already "attempted" it. But maybe that's just bad wording, and they would have just checked if it was possible.)
00:11:32 <fizzie> Got to say, online nobody seems to have anything good to say about the "new" parent company, and their web presence is really... blank. I can't find any real details about this new service the migration would be to.
00:12:39 <fizzie> If we were actually *paying* for the service, I'd be seriously reconsidering at this point. And as it stands, I'm a little worried our little informal sponsorship "discount" / zero-rating will also get left behind in the migration.
00:16:05 <int-e> :/
00:17:15 <fizzie> Well, maybe I'll just ask a few questions first. And make sure the backups are up-to-date.
00:21:30 <int-e> Well it sounds like it might be a hassle.
00:21:48 <int-e> But... too early to tell.
00:23:06 <int-e> The weird thing is... you'd think this would have come up with the recent billing hickup.
00:23:40 <fizzie> Yeah, that's a little odd. But maybe they don't plan things in advance too well.
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00:34:59 <b_jonas> fizzie: that sounds weird
00:35:35 <b_jonas> fizzie: and you're sure that's not a spam impersonating that company?
00:35:42 <b_jonas> I guess that's also why you have to ask the questions
00:35:44 <Corbin> You have my axe, although I suspect I can't do much besides contribute to defraying hosting costs.
00:36:27 <fizzie> It did come through the (old) company's support ticket system, at least.
00:41:21 <b_jonas> that's good
00:42:56 <fizzie> While the hosting costs are pretty low (I think the nominal cost of the old service is £20/month, and there are at least 50% cheaper options with an equivalent specification), I did also look again into how charitable organizations work around here, since there would be certain advantages to that structure. Although I kind of feel like that's little bit of morally ambiguous. Or at least using
00:42:58 <fizzie> the company gift-matching scheme would be.
00:43:00 <fizzie> Not going to think about that more unless they actually do drop us, though. Because they suggested nothing of the kind when handling that billing issue that int-e mentioned.
00:46:14 <int-e> I imagine nothing will happen over the weekend anyway
00:48:35 <fizzie> Probably not. Anyway, the initial email said they "would like to aim to get the move completed within 30 days if at all possible". (Of which I've used up 3, since I didn't feel like thinking about it during the week.)
00:52:00 <int-e> sounds like enough time to figure out what's going on and how to proceed
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01:54:45 <zzo38> I read some parts of the sigbovik, so far.
01:57:53 <b_jonas> `? sigbovik
01:57:55 <HackEso> sigbovik? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:12:16 <b_jonas> "LaTeX Gold Warning: MathBBFree per-document usage limit exceeded; upgrade to remove this limitation."
02:12:24 <b_jonas> lol
02:44:15 <int-e> . o O ( Is this from a preview of the highly anticipated TeX 4.0 and MetaFont 3.0 releases? )
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03:34:59 <esolangs> [[Argh!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94583&oldid=81470 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+84) /* Examples */
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05:49:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cube26 * New user account
05:55:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94584&oldid=94520 * Cube26 * (+207)
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06:08:06 <esolangs> [[User:Cube26]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94585 * Cube26 * (+376) Info about User Cube26
06:14:45 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94586 * Cube26 * (+130) Created page with "If you don't know what is FOLDERS esoteric programming langauge at first, go to this link: [[Category: MarkUp Langauges | 2022]]"
06:16:37 <zzo38> I don't know how can use Banach-Tarski to move a spaceship even if it is a magic spaceship.
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06:21:21 <river> I never learned the Banach-Tarski thing
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06:38:10 <zzo38> Even though Free Hero Mesh is meant to make a puzzle game, it is also possible to make cellular automata (although not very good (for one thing, the maximum grid size is probably too small); something like CASTLE would probably be better but it seems to be not implemented, and there might be some purposes that it has its own limitations too) (I wrote one in other IRC)
06:38:36 <zzo38> But, you can also do other way I suppose, if you will want to make the cellular automatic game engine, or a hybrid system, I suppose
06:38:54 <zzo38> (Actually, I think I had seen such things before but do not remember)
06:40:14 <zzo38> Is there a implementation of CASTLE that esolang wiki did not mention by now?
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10:35:25 <esolangs> [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94629 * IkenusDisnem * (+5709) it's not a mistake it's a masterpieceit's not a mistake it's a masterpieceit's not a mistake it's a masterpieceit's not a mistake it's not a mistake it's a masterpieceit's not a mistake it's a masterpieceit's not a mistake it's a masterpieceit's not a mistak
10:36:03 <esolangs> [[User:IkenusDisnem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94630&oldid=93978 * IkenusDisnem * (+41) e
10:36:28 <esolangs> [[INAMIAE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94631 * IkenusDisnem * (+48) Redirected page to [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]]
10:36:42 <esolangs> [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94632&oldid=94629 * IkenusDisnem * (-22) ea
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13:52:28 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94633&oldid=94628 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-284) /* How to code */ Remove nonexistent categories and unnecessary pipes, add category Languages
13:53:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94634&oldid=94524 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) /* F */ add
13:55:09 <esolangs> [[Dog]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94635&oldid=78775 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+22) Add category
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17:06:35 <esolangs> [[255]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94636&oldid=94338 * AceKiron * (+1022)
17:13:24 <esolangs> [[255]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94637&oldid=94636 * AceKiron * (+6) Added newline character
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17:51:29 <zzo38> How do they add specifications for HTML and web browsers? I had wanted to add a "Interpreter" response header, and "feature" and "application" HTML attributes, and values "data" and "documentation" for rel attributes. The first one will need implementation to work, but others are optional to implement.
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18:38:23 <zzo38> The intention of Interpreter header is that any browser can then load files (documents, pictures, etc) of any file format whether or not it is already known; if it is not built in to the browser but the interpreter is understood, then it can use that; if it is already built in (or if the end user has disabled this feature) then the Interpreter header is ignored. (Other uses are possible, too.)
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18:56:40 <shachaf> `smlist 538
18:56:42 <HackEso> smlist 538: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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20:04:31 <river> http://sigbovik.org/2022/proceedings.pdf
20:07:35 <zzo38> I had read it
20:07:57 <river> il;ll read it soon
20:11:42 <esolangs> [[Vurl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94639&oldid=93894 * Viba * (-4) boolean "not" does not, in fact, take two arguments.
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23:48:34 <esolangs> [[PrettyPrint]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94640 * B jonas * (+733) I honestly have no idea what this does, but it's best to have a stub so it's easy to find from the name.
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23:49:57 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94641&oldid=94634 * B jonas * (+32) PrettyPrint, BitGrid
23:51:29 <b_jonas> can you remind me of the syntax for a https URL pointing to a specific page in a pdf? I keep forgetting it
23:51:33 <esolangs> [[PrettyPrint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94642&oldid=94640 * B jonas * (+4)
23:52:13 <b_jonas> `? pdf
23:52:15 <HackEso> PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
23:52:17 <b_jonas> `? page
23:52:19 <HackEso> The smallest floating-point number is known as pages. Fungot discovered it.
23:53:41 <b_jonas> if I search these keywords on the internet, all I find is always this stupid "run this program, click on these menu items, enter the page number, get a URL"
23:54:05 <b_jonas> seriously? why'd I need Adobe Acrobat to link to a page number?
23:54:46 <b_jonas> it's probably somewhere in #esolangs or #esoteric history
23:55:46 <fizzie> I didn't know that was even a thing.
23:56:15 <zzo38> I had just used # followed by the page number (regardless of the URI scheme)
23:58:20 <b_jonas> I read that the suffix was #page=16 somewhere. it doesn't seem to work, but maybe that's just my setup or something.
23:58:55 <b_jonas> I know it's not just #16 , that wouldn't be something of the "I can never remember" category
23:59:43 <b_jonas> it's #page=16 , except you have to use the physical page number, not the logical one, so it's a bit more than 16
23:59:57 <b_jonas> it works if I make Firefox use its built-in pdf viewer
2022-04-10
00:00:26 <esolangs> [[PrettyPrint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94643&oldid=94642 * B jonas * (+8) page number
00:00:47 <b_jonas> ok done
00:01:22 <b_jonas> we really should have IOCCC and Sigbovik categories on the wiki
00:01:40 <b_jonas> but I don't dare to create them after what you said to me when I created the ICFP one
00:01:48 <b_jonas> so I leave this to the wiki admins
00:02:00 <b_jonas> SIGBOVIK really, it's all uppercase
00:13:13 <int-e> Btw if anyone wants to try for a smaller bitgrid GoL unit cell, one obvious (but messy) idea is to route the result *through* the circuit that computes it rather than around id.
00:13:59 <int-e> (since the circuit propagates stuff from left to right, one can propagate something else from right to left at the same time)
00:16:02 <int-e> Notation is still a big issue :)
00:16:52 <b_jonas> no, sorry, making smaller game of life circuits in bitgrid is not among my life goals, not even after I wrote game of life implementations in perl and J and C
00:17:23 <b_jonas> and the perl one is actually an interesting one
00:17:51 <int-e> Just putting it out there because I'm not going to do it either ;)
00:18:22 <b_jonas> (the J one is somewhat golfy but doesn't really have anything special in it; the C one was like twentysomething years ago and wasn't trying to be optimized or anything)
00:23:04 <int-e> I'm happy with the sorting network based evaluation function anyway... it's really about routing the signal... but that's more tedious than interesting.
00:23:07 <zzo38> Is there a specification for fragment identifiers in a URL for referencing specific tables and specific rows of tables in a SQLite database?
00:27:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: "choose to attack with normal mode or disabling mode" => why do you need that? you can just say "may choose a creature an opponent controls" or whatever, and then refer to "if you did", like in the template of Gaze of Pain.
00:27:56 <b_jonas> that template is not very common, because most of the time the ability just automatically does nothing when it can't find the creature you chose, but still
00:28:40 <b_jonas> `? pdf
00:28:42 <HackEso> PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format.
00:28:49 <b_jonas> I wonder if I should put the page number thing there
00:29:24 <zzo38> That could work, although still it will need to remember and that others can refer to it too, and I am unsure if the creature that you choose should now be considered to be engaged in combat. Either way, it affects other rules having to do with combat, too.
00:29:53 <zzo38> (such as which declarations of blockers are legal, and what happens during the combat damage step)
00:31:04 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94644&oldid=94633 * Cube26 * (+180)
00:33:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: for Gaze of Pain, it's still in combat. I don't know of a card with an "attack mode" that then removes it from combat, normally you'd just use a tap ability instead.
00:34:31 <b_jonas> you could have an attack mode or an optional attack cost that removes the attacker from combat, but that would be a bit unexpected, and I'm not sure why you'd want to use that instead of a tap ability
00:34:57 <b_jonas> I mean maybe you really want the ability to be unusable if the creature can't attack
00:35:42 <zzo38> It isn't the attacking creature I mean, but the opposing creature that you are trying to affect with your attack (which might not necessarily be a creature by the time it is affected, but usually it is).
00:35:56 <b_jonas> and I guess you can have a variant where you can bounce the creature as a cost for your effect after it attacks
00:36:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: wait, how would that work exactly then? what would be the full text?
00:37:32 <b_jonas> I assume you don't just want a Trap Runner
00:38:08 <b_jonas> or a Curtain of Light
00:38:14 <zzo38> It would have to be added to the rules; it is not a activated or triggered ability.
00:39:07 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94645&oldid=94644 * Cube26 * (+83)
00:39:19 <b_jonas> ok, but what specifically?
00:39:30 <b_jonas> I assume it's also not an (additional) attack cost
00:41:20 <b_jonas> I mean an attack cost like Brainwash ... by the way it's weird that that ability doesn't also exist in blue
00:43:58 <b_jonas> blue can add an upkeep cost, or keep the creature from untapping (and possibly also tap it), and variations on that
00:44:04 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94646&oldid=94645 * Cube26 * (+408)
00:45:26 <b_jonas> hmm, I wonder if Thirst could be printed for 1U these days, or for U if it doesn't tap the creature
00:46:40 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94647&oldid=94646 * Cube26 * (+211)
00:47:11 <b_jonas> Take into Custody is a recent card that gives an idea of how you could price this these days
00:47:44 <zzo38> You would choose what creature (maybe it should be considered to be attacking that creature in disabling mode, instead of attacking a player). That creature cannot block unless something else blocks the attacking creature. During the combat damage step, if it is still in combat in this way, and the attack is not blocked, when it would assign the damage, instead stuns the target; power is ignored.
00:48:37 <zzo38> If an object stuns a permanent, then that permanent is tapped, and until its controllers cleanup step, cannot be untapped during the untap step, nor attack or block or use any activated abilities. A permanent with protection from the object stunning it is not affected.
00:49:12 <zzo38> If it is blocked, then damage should be assigned normally but also stuns each creature it assigns damage to; or, maybe the effect should be different in this case.
00:49:29 <b_jonas> either it's too late or you're phrasing that weird
00:49:38 <b_jonas> or I'm missing some context
00:50:02 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94648&oldid=94647 * Cube26 * (+5) More breaks between sentences
00:50:50 <zzo38> Yes, maybe. Or maybe I am unclear.
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01:00:39 <b_jonas> so this is an evasoin ability on your attacking creature, and it would place a weird blocking restriction that has to look at the whole blocking assignment, sort of like the "this creature can't block alone" or "this creature can't be blocked by more than one creature" or menace?
01:01:36 <b_jonas> and then after that evasion ability, if the creature remains unblocked, it does something with the same creature of the opponent that you chose earlier for the evasion?
01:02:08 <b_jonas> and the evasion is not stopped by protection but you want the stun to stop it?
01:02:14 <b_jonas> this sounds way too complicated for its own good
01:02:56 <b_jonas> ok, I admit it's not as crazy as banding
01:06:38 <b_jonas> hmm, we need a parody 5-cycle of legendary lands from Legends with “Blue legends lose banding and all ‘bands with other’ abilities.”
01:08:28 <zzo38> I mean that the creature being disabled cannot block anything unless the attacking creature that is trying to disable it is blocked by a different creature.
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01:09:23 <zzo38> And the creature using disabling attack mode will not deal any damage, since it does something else during the combat damage step instead (twice if it has double strike, although this is redundant unless it is blocked).
01:12:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, that first part sounds like a complex restriction on the blocking assignment. it can't just be a trigger, because it's too late after the blocking assignments (unless you want something like banding that changes the blocking assignment after the fact) and too early before that.
01:12:24 <b_jonas> I still think all this together is too complicated, but you may save parts of it
01:13:04 <b_jonas> just the blocking restriction could work, but you're trying to add too many things after that
01:14:43 <b_jonas> or if you want to add more, then use something simpler than that blocking restriction, like you choose a blocker after the assignment and remove it from combat and detain it or something
01:15:43 <b_jonas> and don't try to add a clause where protection stops half of your ability but not the whole thing, either make it targeting so protection blocks it (and other abiligies that affect targeting find it too) or just don't have protection care about it
01:16:31 <zzo38> Like I said, it is meant to be a extra rule which is in effect if the creature has the static ability "disable"; it is not a triggered or activated ability. But, yes, it could be changed to work differently, anyways.
01:17:01 <b_jonas> or if you want protection to specifically affect something that isn't a target, you can make it a damage with a weird effect like wither/infect, or a damage trigger, or a replacement ability on damage
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01:20:22 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94651&oldid=94650 * Cube26 * (+510)
01:20:41 <zzo38> I had thought of that too, but there are some reasons why it will not work, such as if the power is zero, or if you are trying to stun a permanent that is not a creature or planeswalker, etc. It is not working like damage, I think. (I had also made up a "harmless" keyword ability which does affect damage, but it is used on different cards and has a different effect; but, that one is like wither, etc.)
01:20:43 <b_jonas> like “If ~ would deal combat damage to a player, you may prevent that damage and <do something else>.”
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01:23:05 <zzo38> Like I said, I didn't really like that and instead tried to make it a part of the rules (which would allow the card to have more abilities too; otherwise they won't fit).
01:26:49 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94654&oldid=94653 * Cube26 * (+7)
01:26:59 <b_jonas> zzo38: you can trigger on "Whenever ~ attacks and isn't blocked", that template exists in several cards, if you're sure you want it to work even if the power is zero. It's not common, because making it deliberately not work when no damage is dealt is usually a better choice for card design.
01:27:06 <esolangs> [[FOLDERS text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94655&oldid=94654 * Cube26 * (-14)
01:27:39 <b_jonas> Zealot il-Vec is probably a good example
01:28:15 <zzo38> (Also, I don't hate banding, either.)
01:28:28 <zzo38> Yes, although I was not asking about templating, anyways.
01:28:39 <b_jonas> hey, I don't hate banding, I like banding, I'm just saying it's complicated
01:29:52 <b_jonas> I have used banding because there wasn't a simlar but simpler ability printed later that could replace it when I built the deck
01:30:54 <b_jonas> It's nice to be able to have a cheap creature that I can sacrifice (in the non-comprules sense) to save its comrade by taking combat damage from it, and have this on a simple 1/1 for W creature
01:31:17 <b_jonas> banding comes with additional rules bagage cover that, but I don't have a 1/1 for W creature that does just that
01:32:33 <b_jonas> sure, if that rules baggage is there then I will use it to my advantage, like I'll use it as a steed bird to carry a soldier to block a flying creature or whatever
01:33:05 <b_jonas> but it was still a mistake to have these in such a complex ability
01:33:26 <b_jonas> print steed birds, or creatures that can redirect damage to itself when it would be dealt to their comrades, etc
01:34:36 <zzo38> I disagree. I like the banding how it is, except to change the "bands with other" rule slightly, so that a creature with "bands with other [quality]" does not need to itself be [quality] for the ability to work.
01:34:52 <b_jonas> they did change the "bands with other" in a comp rules patch
01:34:56 <b_jonas> I think exactly that way
01:35:02 <b_jonas> ah no
01:35:08 <b_jonas> sorry, I misunderstood you
01:35:35 <b_jonas> they changed it so that "bands with other cats" now doesn't require that the other cat also has "bands with other cat" to be able to band with it
01:36:06 <b_jonas> this effectively made the "bands with other" abilities stronger, but nobody cares because the cards that refer to "bands with other" are so weak and new ones won't be printed
01:36:37 <b_jonas> "bands with other" probably just shouldn't have existed in first place, but it's too late, and admittedly that was in the early days of magic
01:36:53 <zzo38> Yes, that is how they changed it. My own change is a more minor change.
01:37:20 <b_jonas> the sixth edition rules overhaul had a chance to replace how banding works with something saner, but that chance was missed, and it's too late to change it now
01:38:04 <b_jonas> although how excatly it interacts with the damage assignment order could have been specified better when the damage assignment order was new
01:38:55 <zzo38> How I should think that disable should interact with banding is: Rule 702.22d applies; all creatures in the band must attack the same thing. (This mostly useful to absorb damage in case it is blocked, but might also be able to use multi attack modes in one band if opponent controls a permanent that is both a creature and a planeswalker.)
01:40:00 <zzo38> I like banding the way it is because I am nobody, I suppose.
01:41:28 <b_jonas> as for damage assignment order (unrelated to banding), I assume you heard that unofficial proposal to change the rules so that you are allowed to assign non-lethal damage to more than one creature, all that's required is that all creatures that you assign lethal damage to precede the ones that you assign non-lethal damage to in the damage assignment order. (this is well-formed in that there's always at
01:41:34 <b_jonas> least one valid damage assignment, namely assigning all damage from every combatant to the first creature in the damage assignment order for that creature.)
01:42:24 <b_jonas> this also interacts nicely with deathtouch
01:43:27 <zzo38> I had not heard of that, although it will work. But, I think that it is OK the way that it is (and the way that my "harmless" ability works, I had assumed the existing rules; in this case it is possible to assign lethal damage to a creature without having any effect on that creature).
01:44:52 <zzo38> The proposal is OK but I think that it is not worth changing it at this time; if they did that at first then it would be OK, though.
01:45:09 <zzo38> (The other option would be to use a damage prevention step like the older rules do.)
01:53:26 <zzo38> (Although, a damage prevention step would be more complicated to implement with the modern kind of rules; it won't work very well.)
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04:11:24 <esolangs> [[Unnecessarily Large HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94677&oldid=94514 * Lemonz * (-168)
05:37:00 <zzo38> Would inventing a custom set of Magic: the Gathering cards with some ideas based on some of the unusual ideas of esoteric programming languages?
05:42:24 <zzo38> The rules of Magic: the Gathering that I do not like are the ones that seem klugy and mismatching, such as double face permanents cannot be turned face down, creatures cannot be attached to anything, and the rule that the legendary supertype has a different meaning (that does not match) if it is a permanent or not. (The contrast is ongoing; there are some similar state-based actions, that would make sense to suppress in this way.)
05:43:04 <zzo38> (In some cases they have improved them, such as removing the planeswalker redirection rule which is no good, so it is good that they had removed that rule.)
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07:38:52 <esolangs> [[255]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94678&oldid=94638 * AceKiron * (+985) Added the popular problem: 99 bottles of beer.
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10:50:41 <esolangs> [[SOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94679&oldid=94199 * Celtschk * (+18) Linked name to user page
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13:35:53 <b_jonas> tom7's full video for his SIGBOVIK 2022 project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJSW7Rprio
13:39:35 <river> oh suckerpinch is tom7
13:39:45 <b_jonas> yes
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14:20:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lynx * New user account
14:27:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94680&oldid=94584 * Lynx * (+62) /* Introductions */
14:29:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94681&oldid=94680 * Lynx * (+76) /* Introductions */
14:29:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94682&oldid=94681 * Lynx * (-4) /* Introductions */
14:44:13 <esolangs> [[DeBruijn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94683&oldid=84866 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+56) /* External resources */ Add categories
14:45:36 <Corbin> Hm. I hate to tell Andrew, but I think De Bruijn indices might have shown up before 2021.
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16:15:38 <esolangs> [[C Plus Minus Plus Minus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94684&oldid=80509 * Dorcelessness * (+14)
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17:41:06 <b_jonas> `? bond
17:41:08 <b_jonas> ~? james bond
17:41:09 <HackEso> bond? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:41:26 <b_jonas> `? james bond
17:41:28 <HackEso> james bond? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:52:23 <b_jonas> this veal dish was too spicy-hot for my taste
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19:21:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lemon Machine * New user account
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20:11:41 <zzo38> I think that MIME and UTI both have some problem for the identification of file types, which is why I wanted to make up my own one, attempting to fix it. (Although, maybe you also have some ideas for improvement, too.) There will just be the set of types which you can have more than one, and optional parameters (such as code page). For example, "zip:epub" and "text:json" are possible (but can be in any order; "json:text" is same as "tex
20:13:06 <zzo38> (You can also more easily handle polyglot files in this way, and may sometimes be able to display unrecognized formats, etc.)
20:16:13 <zzo38> (Although, maybe you might want to be able to specify contained formats, e.g. "zip<html>:epub", or "ogg<vorbis;theora>", etc. Or maybe some other way; I don't know)
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22:40:55 <zzo38> Why is the bell not as loud as it was before, even though the other things are still loud?
22:55:25 <int-e> maybe you're striking it more softly than usual
22:57:14 <zzo38> No, I mean the bell in the computer; it doesn't have the indication how hard it is struck
23:07:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hex96]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94685&oldid=72928 * Robolta * (+126) Leaving a note
23:07:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hex96]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94686&oldid=94685 * Robolta * (-8) Fixing bottom line
23:13:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:End]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94687 * Robolta * (+223) Created page with "10-04-2022 Any chance you could give more details? Perhaps information about how you suspect it may work or maybe minor information you didn't think to include originally? Mil..."
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01:41:18 <zzo38> The power was out so the computer was restarted, and this time the bell isn't too quiet.
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09:30:44 <esolangs> [[SRlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94708&oldid=93337 * Soyuzguy123! * (+94) added a link to the english version interpreter
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16:58:36 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94709 * KSP Atlas * (+1204) Create page
16:59:16 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94710&oldid=94709 * KSP Atlas * (+0) Fix categories
16:59:53 <esolangs> [[Force of Arch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94711&oldid=94299 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) Category
17:02:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RomanPro100 * New user account
17:05:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94712&oldid=94704 * RomanPro100 * (+228) /* Introductions */
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18:53:36 <esolangs> [[255]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94713&oldid=94678 * AceKiron * (+182) /* Popular problems */
18:56:21 <esolangs> [[255]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94714&oldid=94713 * AceKiron * (+0) /* Truth machine */
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03:10:38 <int-e> `thanks javascript for + " " + "x" == "0x"
03:10:40 <HackEso> Thanks, javascript for + " " + "x" == "0x". Thavascript for + " " + "x" == "0x".
04:19:39 <zzo38> Can slow scan pictures be transmitted/received using cell phones even despite the compression?
04:32:32 <shachaf> The other day I remembered that these two programs print different things in JavaScript:
04:32:35 <shachaf> for (let i = 0; i < 4; i++) { setTimeout(function() { console.log(i); }, 100); }
04:32:41 <shachaf> let i; for (i = 0; i < 4; i++) { setTimeout(function() { console.log(i); }, 100); }
05:00:38 <esolangs> [[255]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94715&oldid=94714 * AceKiron * (+191)
05:33:52 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94716&oldid=93920 * Dnm * (+1038) Added Deadfish in XPL0
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06:51:16 <myname> of course they do
06:51:52 <myname> lambdas don't capture values on creation
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07:52:19 <shachaf> Why does that make it "of course"?
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08:06:05 <b_jonas> what does i refer to in the lambda if it doesn't capture?
08:07:00 <b_jonas> when the lambda is called then, what i will it access?
08:07:14 <b_jonas> luckily I don't know much javascript
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08:46:07 <shachaf> Each iteration of the loop has its own i.
08:46:12 <shachaf> There's also an outer i.
08:46:27 <shachaf> (In the first example.)
08:46:48 <shachaf> The lambda captures the inner i, which is implicitly copied from the outer i.
08:47:02 <shachaf> Also the inner i is implicitly copied to the outer i at the end of the loop.
08:47:10 <shachaf> Of an iteration, I mean.
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09:27:20 <esolangs> [[Brainf***-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94717&oldid=74935 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+197) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the BrainF***- programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
09:31:36 <esolangs> [[Brainf***-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94718&oldid=94717 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+59) Rectified the random program example, which would print nothing on entering the letter A, and introduced sections.
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11:30:53 <definitelya> fungot: Can't spell "gastronomy" without "astronomy".
11:30:54 <fungot> definitelya: stalin is really a natural consequence of the fnord scheme compilers... :d.
11:31:11 <definitelya> :)
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12:15:31 <b_jonas> that's weird
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12:56:23 <myname> that's not at all a js thing
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12:57:02 <myname> the former solution just has an i for each iteration that does not get removed after the loop finishes
12:57:35 <myname> the later finishes the loop, has 4 as the last value of i, therefore each timeout prints the current value of i
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13:02:45 <fizzie> It is a *bit* of a JS thing, because the way it looks, I don't think it's at all obvious there's a dedicated `i` value per iteration in either of them. The let "declaration" is in the first for loop section, which is "executed once", before the loop starts. A for-loop initial declaration in C makes a single variable that survives from one iteration to another.
13:03:45 <fizzie> If it was a for-in / for-of style loop, then I think it would be more natural there's a new instance of the loop variable for each iteration.
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13:08:51 <fizzie> (Not a given, though, even in that case. A Go `for _, x := range list { go func(){ time.Sleep(100 * time.Millisecond); fmt.Println(x) }() }` loop would print the last element len(list) times.)
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13:14:38 <fizzie> `js for (let i = 0; i < 4; i++) { setTimeout(() => console.log(i), 10) }; null
13:14:41 <HackEso> null \ 0 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3
13:14:42 <fizzie> `js let i; for (i = 0; i < 4; i++) { setTimeout(() => console.log(i), 10) }; null
13:14:45 <HackEso> null \ 4 \ 4 \ 4 \ 4
13:15:18 <fizzie> (Just wanted to check if we had a `js in place. Also, couldn't figure out to quiet it from printing a result.)
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15:29:44 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ohead * New user account
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17:44:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * QuarticSushi * New user account
17:47:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94719&oldid=94712 * QuarticSushi * (+199) /* Introductions */
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18:17:00 <esolangs> [[SOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94720&oldid=94679 * Celtschk * (+801) /* Example programs */ Added rule 110
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19:52:14 <esolangs> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94721&oldid=85373 * Aspwil * (-2) /* Instructions */
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21:09:39 <esolangs> [[HQ9+ C Function Interface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94722&oldid=94511 * Oshaboy * (+163) Added implementation and categories
21:10:10 <esolangs> [[HQ9+ C Function Interface]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94723&oldid=94722 * Oshaboy * (+12)
21:51:59 <zzo38> Why does rule 701.8 doesn't say that only the owner of a card can discard it, even though it seems that it is how it is supposed to work?
22:11:57 <zzo38> Is there a source of Oracle text for Magic: the Gathering in text or JSON that all italic text that doesn't already have parentheses will now have parentheses, or otherwise mark that text in some way, or omits all italic text (including reminder text) entirely?
22:12:58 <esolangs> [[ONE WAY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94724&oldid=94016 * DigitalDetective47 * (-23) /* Commands */ Simplified definition of random
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22:24:41 <esolangs> [[Fool]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94725&oldid=91554 * DigitalDetective47 * (-28) /* Official interpreter */ Updated implementation
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2022-04-13
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02:44:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: don't the Scryfall downloads do that already?
02:54:04 <zzo38> I checked one card (Black Dragon, which has italic flavor words in the ability text), and it does not seem to do so.
03:53:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, you mean ability words rather than normal flavor text
03:54:45 <b_jonas> or apparently "flavor words" according to 207.2d
04:02:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: you could ask them at https://scryfall.com/contact , I think I wrote them like three times and they fixed two issues
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10:51:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94726&oldid=94707 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+191)
10:55:32 <fizzie> Well, I got that Bytemark migration thing negotiated now, I guess. They'll make the bits move on April 21st, so expect some hours with the wiki in read-only mode that day, followed by 1-2 hours of downtime, followed by normal service again. Assuming it goes as planned, anyway.
10:55:45 <fizzie> Guess I might put that header-banner announcement thing up the day before or so, saying when we'll lock things down.
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11:05:07 <b_jonas> fizzie: but will they still sponsor the machine?
11:06:30 <fizzie> They explicitly said they will, yes.
11:07:09 <fizzie> I think there's a nonzero chance something goes technically wrong (again) with the implementation of it, but hopefully we can get that resolved.
11:08:25 <fizzie> I'll be interested to see if they send me a negative invoice this time, since the new platform has (slightly) lower prices, and a price change is how it went wrong the last time.
11:09:38 <b_jonas> good
11:10:23 <b_jonas> as for negative invoice, would they pay that in credit that you can spend on part time of another virtual machine?
11:10:37 <b_jonas> or in form of cash that goes to the beer fund?
11:11:04 <fizzie> I kind of suspect it would accumulate in an "account balance" in their system.
11:11:15 <b_jonas> so credit
11:15:01 <fizzie> The smallest virtual machine (sorry, not "virtual machine", an "enterprise cloud pool") you can normally buy on the new platform has 50 GiB of disk (as opposed to the 25 GiB we have right now), so we might be getting a bump in that as well. Or else they'll just configure it with a nonstandard size, since I'm sure there's no technical reason why they couldn't.
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11:20:27 <b_jonas> that sounds like the underlying hardware got cheaper
11:20:35 <b_jonas> the disks are growing
11:49:57 <fizzie> Somehow I got reminded of the "they don't just grow on trees" joke in the third panel of https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/scrooge-mcduck/images/b/be/QuestforKalevala.png
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14:34:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:\ () /]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94727 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+158) Created page with "I don't think <code>.sh</code> should be a shruglang file extension, <code>.sh</code> is a shell script file extension. [[User:WhoeverKnew123]] 10:30 AM (AST)"
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14:53:36 <Corbin> To reply to tromp in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31013471: My language Cammy, on the wiki, is concatenative (according to my definition, also on the wiki) and yet has no quotes. It's not Turing-complete, and there are deep technical reasons for that which are related to quoting!
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14:55:15 <Corbin> Turing categories must have some way to quote and unquote code. Specifically, for any function X -> Y, there's not just an internal (exponential) function type Y^X, but also a uniform type of codes.
14:56:02 <Corbin> Like, we can use Gödel coding and the natural numbers. For each function, there's a way to encode it as a natural number, and there's also a way to try to decode a natural number into a function.
14:56:55 <Corbin> But if you take that away, there's still useful computational systems.
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15:40:55 <esolangs> [[ONE WAY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94728&oldid=94724 * DigitalDetective47 * (+0) /* Mandatory test cases */ Fix division test case
15:52:03 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94729&oldid=86040 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+1)
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16:19:12 <esolangs> [[Brainf***-]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94730&oldid=94718 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+35) Improved the formatting of the command table.
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17:22:53 <b_jonas> hey look! https://bobadventures.thecomicseries.com/comics/10 is a redirect, but https://bobadventures.thecomicseries.com/comics/9 and https://bobadventures.thecomicseries.com/comics/11 aren't redirects. don't you love weird websites?
17:34:23 <int-e> so are they doing that for every 10th page?
17:34:45 <int-e> (apparently)
17:35:11 <int-e> (but I didn't test this exhaustively :P)
18:08:56 <b_jonas> dunno
18:10:33 <b_jonas> the url with a trailing slash seems to always work, BUT https://bobadventures.thecomicseries.com/comics/2000/ is still a 200, it doesn't give a proper 404 error code, so I'll have to check carefully not to get a dummy page
18:10:58 <b_jonas> 1072 is the latest comic, any larger number just gives the same
18:11:14 <b_jonas> on the plus side, the site works fine without javascript, so hey, there's that
18:16:52 <esolangs> [[Tech Support Scam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94731&oldid=83902 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+51) /* Example programs */
18:23:28 <esolangs> [[Tech Support Scam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94732&oldid=94731 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+75)
18:49:31 <esolangs> [[4DChess]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94733&oldid=94421 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+208) Improved the formatting of the command table.
20:07:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:\ () /]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94734&oldid=94727 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+10)
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21:27:56 <esolangs> [[ON THE WAY TO WHO KNOWS WHERE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94735&oldid=73053 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) Category
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21:58:35 <zzo38> I had made up a variant of RDF, and now the document also includes a possible text format and binary format, in addition to the main specification (which is improved, by now). But, I don't know what it is called?
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21:59:10 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/D9YaVH
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22:06:01 <zzo38> (You can also tell me if you found any mistakes, or suggestion to make improvement, etc)
22:06:17 <zzo38> (Actually, I already found a few mistakes, so far)
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22:46:32 <esolangs> [[ONE WAY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94736&oldid=94728 * DigitalDetective47 * (-90) /* Commands */ Removed xor
23:16:16 <esolangs> [[Left-Right March]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94737&oldid=93957 * DigitalDetective47 * (-14323) /* Implementations */
23:19:43 <esolangs> [[Left-Right March]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94738&oldid=94737 * DigitalDetective47 * (+0) /* Implementations */ Edit capitalization
23:19:59 <esolangs> [[Dashes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94739&oldid=91890 * DigitalDetective47 * (-13526) /* Implementations */
23:21:25 <esolangs> [[Fool]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94740&oldid=94725 * DigitalDetective47 * (-5995) /* Implementations */
23:22:19 <esolangs> [[Cratefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94741&oldid=92317 * DigitalDetective47 * (-2686) /* Implementations */
23:24:16 <esolangs> [[ONE WAY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94742&oldid=94736 * DigitalDetective47 * (+97) Add interpreter
23:24:38 <esolangs> [[ONE WAY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94743&oldid=94742 * DigitalDetective47 * (-15) /* Error vs. exception */ Rewrote the beginning
23:33:18 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94744&oldid=93931 * DigitalDetective47 * (-304) /* Languages */
2022-04-14
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01:33:36 <Corbin> Folklore is that integration is computable; given a computable (continuous) function on the reals, the Riemann sums over an interval can be computed. Is there a neat trick to this, or is it quite literally done by drawing the little Riemann-style boxes and making ever-thinner slices?
01:47:07 <b_jonas> Corbin: I'd guess the latter. note that if it's a continuous function on a compact set then you can just pick Riemann-style boxes of equal sizes and they will converge, so that's like easy mode.
01:47:47 <Corbin> b_jonas: Yeah, good point.
01:48:02 <Corbin> They computably converge? That's a little surprising, but yeah, I'd believe it.
01:48:15 <b_jonas> I don't know
01:48:31 <b_jonas> I don't know much about computable reals and that sort of thing
01:49:25 <Corbin> I want to believe that they're the future. But every time I've implemented them, it's been like rolling the rock up the hill.
01:49:46 <b_jonas> the future of what?
01:51:09 <Corbin> Of numerical work, I suppose. Like, we could be computing exact answers for a lot of engineering and physics work, but floats have limits on precision for operations like sqrt or division.
01:51:55 <b_jonas> anyway, the function is uniformly continuous which is why the Riemann-sum converges: for every 0<epsilon there's a N such that if you divide to N equal boxes then within each box the value of the function is within an epsilon tall interval, so the upper and lower Riemann-sum differs by at most epsilon times the length of the domain
01:52:15 <b_jonas> maybe if you understand computable reals you can tell if that translates to a proof
01:54:02 <b_jonas> as for the general thing, isn't the problem that if you try to compute something with computable reals, you might need like double exponential time or worse, so they can't just avoid you all the difficult numerical analysis tricks to bound errors of floating point computation properly
01:54:43 <b_jonas> and double exponental memory too obviously
01:54:54 <Corbin> Kind of. I guess that there's a continued-fraction proof that's not too bad. Let the upper and lower bounds for N boxes give two sequences of continued fractions. Consider the sequence P of rational numbers which arise as common prefixes; P_N agrees with upper_N and lower_N on the first few coefficients of the continued fractions.
01:57:08 <Corbin> Now, by fun facts about continued fractions, every element of P is a Padé approximant and thus a best possible approximation to some real number; but Riemann already showed that upper and lower already converge to a real number, and P is sandwiched between them. So P uniquely determines a real, and we can read off its continued fraction by one of Gosper's algorithms.
01:57:45 <b_jonas> does this really need to involve continued fractions?
01:58:56 <Corbin> No, that's just the model that I'm used to using.
01:59:06 <b_jonas> ok
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04:11:41 <esolangs> [[E]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94745 * Lemonz * (+3466) Created page with "'''E''' is a esoteric based off of [[E]]. But you can #s to change from Main use to secondary use. However since there are two per command, <code>E##</code> acts the same a..."
04:12:59 <esolangs> [[E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94746&oldid=94745 * Lemonz * (+99)
04:50:26 <Corbin> https://i.imgur.com/lU62xDx.png This took hours, but it works. I want it to take seconds. Compilers are hard.
05:25:00 <b_jonas> Corbin: is that some kind of fractal?
05:25:35 <Corbin> b_jonas: Yeah, it's a closeup of the Burning Ship fractal.
05:28:39 <b_jonas> I see. that one is probably famous enough that there's probably optimized code for it somewhere.
05:29:42 <Corbin> There certainly is. Right now, I'm enjoying finding optimized code for such difficult expressions as "256" and "x + y". Primitive recursion is *very* primitive.
05:30:17 <b_jonas> hehe, "256"
05:30:23 <Corbin> So, after putting it off for months, I'm trying out "jets"; I'm replacing short chunks of library code with single optimized bytecodes.
05:34:18 <b_jonas> so you were implementing everything directly in primitive recursion?
05:35:21 <b_jonas> short enough ones I guess that it doesn't generate to writing an interpreter that interprets a biggere interpreter
05:36:18 <Corbin> Yeah.
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13:13:43 <int-e> "sign-in from new location" ...no I'm pretty sure it's the same location as last time.
13:13:56 <int-e> `? device
13:14:00 <HackEso> A device is a browser session. Please verify your device.
13:21:40 <fizzie> Deep truths.
13:24:28 <fizzie> `? device manager
13:24:30 <HackEso> device manager? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:24:37 <fizzie> `le//rn device manager//The device manager can perform low-level device functions such as reboot and factory reset.
13:24:40 <HackEso> Learned 'device manager': The device manager can perform low-level device functions such as reboot and factory reset.
13:24:52 <fizzie> Useless factoids since [insert an early year].
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15:42:08 <esolangs> [[ONE WAY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94747&oldid=94743 * DigitalDetective47 * (+1603) /* Examples */
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16:19:30 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94748&oldid=94710 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) Add link
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20:35:40 <fizzie> Just realized (from a different channel's discussion) that if you use the INTERCAL character names (that is, the correct character names), scripts start with a meshwow line to indicate the interpreter.
21:25:37 <zzo38> Does any implementation of INTERCAL can work if it has such a line at first?
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22:37:49 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94749 * Zero player rodent * (+4949) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Uzumaki |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Zero player rodent]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |memsys=[[:Category:Queue-based|Queue-based]] |dimensi..."
22:38:16 <fizzie> I don't know of any at least.
22:54:45 <esolangs> [[User:Zero player rodent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94750&oldid=94374 * Zero player rodent * (+15)
23:00:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94751&oldid=94641 * Zero player rodent * (+14)
23:36:13 <zzo38> Do you know if any PostScript interpreter does? (This can be done by defining a procedure named #! before the file is executed)
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23:43:09 <zzo38> Is there C interpreter that does? (Usually C is compiled but might also be an interpreter)
23:44:57 <shachaf> tcc -run supports #!
23:45:16 <shachaf> I don't know whether you'd call it an interpreter. It compiles your program into memory and jumps to it.
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2022-04-15
00:01:43 <fizzie> I think Cling supports #! as well.
00:04:14 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94752&oldid=94749 * Zero player rodent * (+150)
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04:22:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uzumaki]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94753 * Celtschk * (+629) What does it mean to e.g. add 10 to the queue? And why is output NOOP?
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06:43:26 <river> https://twitter.com/johncarlosbaez/status/1514604371882876931
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07:19:44 <b_jonas> oh heck. seeing "Hungarian border" on the en.Wikipedia front-page is scary, but it's not about the ukraine war, it's about world war II
07:20:47 <river> sheeeeesh
08:11:54 <b_jonas> are all SATA drives and driver hardware supposed to be hotpluggable, or only some of them?
08:17:42 <river> I didn't know any SATA was hot pluggable
08:17:45 <river> I wouldn't risk it
08:18:41 <b_jonas> it's at least *sometimes* hotpluggable, because there are external cases for SATA drives that connect through USB and the ensemble is hotpluggable on USB
08:20:41 <river> yes USB, but
08:22:04 <b_jonas> wasn't this supposed to be one of the improvements over ATA, which is definitely not hotpluggable and can fry your motherboard if you try?
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09:22:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Delirius * New user account
10:40:41 <fizzie> There's an "enable hotplugging" per-port option in my BIOS settings, so I agree it's at least sometimes hotpluggable.
10:42:11 <fizzie> I've turned that on for the one port that's connected to a 5.25" drive slot dock for a 3.5" drive, and haven't had any trouble making use of it.
10:42:31 <fizzie> But I don't know what exactly the option does/changes.
10:44:27 <fizzie> (I use that dock for the backup hard drive, since it makes it easier to occasionally swap between the off-site backup drive and the one that's getting the automatic incremental updates.)
10:47:30 <fizzie> Wikipedia claims that: "The Serial ATA spec requires SATA devices be capable of hot plugging; that is, devices that meet the specification are capable of insertion or removal of a device into or from a backplane connector (combined signal and power) that has power on."
10:48:11 <b_jonas> fizzie: does "devices" there include the driver on the motherboard's side?
10:48:19 <b_jonas> or an expansion card etc
10:48:23 <b_jonas> or only the drives
10:48:58 <fizzie> I suspect it doesn't automatically mean all software is okay with it.
10:49:51 <fizzie> But if it's an explicit spec requirement at least I hope it means the drives don't need to be special "enterprise" models.
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10:50:14 <b_jonas> the drives are probably compatible, I'm asking about the motherboards
10:52:02 <b_jonas> some motherboards or expansion cards are, because these days people are making big hot-swappable raid arrays from sata hard disks instead of scsi, but those require bigger cards or motherboards than what I have,
10:52:18 <b_jonas> or what someone else has
10:52:51 <fizzie> I imagine if there's that kind of a BIOS setting for it, it's a good sign it's at least supported on some level. If not, then I don't know how you'd be able to tell.
10:54:23 <fizzie> 'pedia's source link is to https://web.archive.org/web/20090124023117/http://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Software_status#Hotplug_support which does imply its sometimes not supported.
10:57:00 <b_jonas> thanks
11:02:37 <b_jonas> fizzie: ah, that explicitly says "Most SATA controllers are hotplug-capable, if your system bus (PCI, etc.) is also hotplug-capable."
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11:53:30 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94754 * QuarticSushi * (+3050) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=CLAG |paradigms=imperative |author=QuarticSushi |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional..."
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12:28:11 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94755&oldid=94754 * QuarticSushi * (+2)
12:32:21 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94756&oldid=94755 * QuarticSushi * (+33)
12:32:56 <b_jonas> hehe. you know how the Cormen-Leiserson-Rivest-Stein Algorithms book does in a large part have its included material selected to what would compliment TAOCP well? So since TAOCP talks about red-black trees only briefly, Cormen-Leiserson-Rivest-Stein describes them in full. But this becomes funny, because the current edition of TAOCP chapter 6.2.3 actually points to CLRS for where to read more about
12:33:02 <b_jonas> red-black trees.
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12:33:43 <b_jonas> What's next, will it reference the ed. Iványi book too in a few years? References to the future are funny.
12:34:25 <b_jonas> Obviously this is the correct way to do bibliographic references in the digital age, I just find it funny because I always think of TSOCP vol 3 2nd edition as a four decades old book
12:36:39 <b_jonas> It's not actually: the 2nd edition is from 1998
12:37:10 <b_jonas> it's only the 1st edition, on which the Hungarian translation was based on, that's that old
12:47:27 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94757&oldid=94756 * QuarticSushi * (-33)
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13:05:08 <esolangs> [[Lambda calculus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94758&oldid=74519 * CappyIsCrappy * (+0) fixed a typo
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14:35:05 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94759&oldid=94757 * QuarticSushi * (+119)
14:45:48 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94760&oldid=94759 * QuarticSushi * (+140) /* Interpreters */
14:50:04 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94761&oldid=94760 * QuarticSushi * (+71)
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15:07:50 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94762 * QuarticSushi * (+483) Created page with "Hi. I exist. That's cool. == Languages == All the languages I have currently made === [[CLAG]] === CLAG was the first language I made. It's like brainfuck, but even harder t..."
15:09:32 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94763&oldid=94761 * QuarticSushi * (+7) /* Original Interpreter */
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15:24:32 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94764&oldid=94763 * QuarticSushi * (+357) /* Hello, World! */
15:26:28 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94765&oldid=94764 * QuarticSushi * (-2) /* Hello, World! */
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15:43:39 <esolangs> [[GolfScratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94766&oldid=94729 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+40)
15:47:09 <esolangs> [[Poppingbrain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94767&oldid=94371 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+6)
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17:25:24 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94768&oldid=94752 * Zero player rodent * (+92)
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20:59:15 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94769&oldid=94534 * Lemonz * (+11) /* Actually a thing language */
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21:36:20 <esolangs> [[Harmonic E]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94770 * Lemonz * (+1565) Created page with "'''Harmonic E''' is a derivative of [[E]]. But you can add two #s (i.e. ##) To access a tertiary function, all old commands are kept (see [[E]] for info about those)..."
21:37:22 <esolangs> [[E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94771&oldid=94746 * Lemonz * (+86)
21:37:44 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94772&oldid=94769 * Lemonz * (+39) /* Actually a thing language */
21:37:51 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94773&oldid=94772 * Lemonz * (+1) /* Actually a thing language */
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23:33:04 <fizzie> There's this song that starts with a fragment of a sentence repeated a couple of times with a low-fidelity speech synthesizer, I *think* it probably says "I am the light" but I keep hearing it as "iron delight".
23:43:50 <int-e> "misheard lyrics" is an viable (but awful) youtube keyword.
2022-04-16
00:35:40 <esolangs> [[DUCK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94774&oldid=46446 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) category
01:45:33 <zzo38> Do you think that the format that I had made up for identifying file formats (which I do not have a name of) is better than the UTI and MIME? I think those one have some problem. MIME allows to add + and the format that it is implented as, but it seems not very flexible. UTI can specify multiple hierarchies but they are fixed and cannot be known unless the UTI is installed, so that is also problem.
01:47:16 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94775&oldid=94765 * QuarticSushi * (+12) /* Cat program */
01:47:33 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94776&oldid=94775 * QuarticSushi * (+7) /* Cat program */
01:48:49 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94777&oldid=94776 * QuarticSushi * (+102) /* Examples */
02:06:33 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94778&oldid=94777 * QuarticSushi * (+295)
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02:16:13 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94779&oldid=94778 * QuarticSushi * (+277) /* Algorithms */
02:54:50 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94780&oldid=94779 * QuarticSushi * (-22) /* Language Overview */
03:11:22 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94781&oldid=94780 * QuarticSushi * (+450) /* Language Overview */
03:30:26 <esolangs> [[Harmonic E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94782&oldid=94770 * Lemonz * (-5) /* Tertiary functions */
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04:15:18 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94783&oldid=94781 * QuarticSushi * (+236) /* Differences from brainfuck */
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07:51:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * NikiTricky * New user account
07:52:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Yujh * New user account
08:02:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94784&oldid=94719 * NikiTricky * (+195)
08:06:23 <esolangs> [[User:NikiTricky]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94785 * NikiTricky * (+125) Created page with "Hello! I'm NikiTricky. I'm currently working on an esolang. You can [https://nikitrickis-links.glitch.me/ see my links here]."
08:42:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94786&oldid=94784 * Yujh * (+150) /* Introductions */
08:44:36 <esolangs> [[User:Yujh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94787 * Yujh * (+1063) Sorry for the random nonsense.
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13:16:46 <river> https://ionathan.ch/2022/04/09/angzarr.html
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13:26:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * NikiTricky * uploaded "[[File:TurtleDigitsHelloworld.png]]": Hello World output in TurtleDigits
13:39:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * NikiTricky * uploaded "[[File:RandomCurves.png]]": Random curves generated from
13:39:32 <esolangs> [[File:RandomCurves.png]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94790&oldid=94789 * NikiTricky * (+13)
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14:26:21 <esolangs> [[TurtleDigits]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94791 * NikiTricky * (+1813) Create the page
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15:25:03 <esolangs> [[Harmonic E]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94792&oldid=94782 * Lemonz * (+90)
15:28:48 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94793&oldid=94773 * Lemonz * (-5) /* My focus: joke languages!!! */
15:29:30 <esolangs> [[I walk away!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94794&oldid=94343 * Lemonz * (+80)
15:45:54 <esolangs> [[Rulesystem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94795&oldid=93691 * Dorcelessness * (+2) made "Until" a smaller heading
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17:42:38 <esolangs> [[User:David.werecat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94796&oldid=60534 * David.werecat * (-338)
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18:50:31 <esolangs> [[LinePaint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94797&oldid=94270 * Dominicentek * (-24)
18:50:54 <esolangs> [[LinePaint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94798&oldid=94797 * Dominicentek * (-81)
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22:15:34 <esolangs> [[Brainsymbol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94799&oldid=94176 * WhoeverKnew123 * (-89)
22:32:10 <esolangs> [[A very long language name that is very weird and yeah, this is your but its this]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94800&oldid=68905 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+35)
23:03:44 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zip * New user account
23:05:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94801&oldid=94786 * Zip * (+98) /* Introductions */
23:05:27 <esolangs> [[User:Zip]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94802 * Zip * (+8) Created page with "I exist."
23:05:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zip]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94803 * Zip * (+21) Created page with "this page also exists"
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23:48:13 <esolangs> [[^^ 16h 35014ng 15 th15]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94804&oldid=90800 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+63) Add categories, remove redundant wrongtitle, link to user page
23:50:34 <esolangs> [[25 bytes o:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94805&oldid=83965 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+129) Add categories
23:51:15 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94806&oldid=94250 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) /* General languages */ add
2022-04-17
00:20:03 <esolangs> [[Bubbles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94807&oldid=69418 * IFcoltransG * (+50) /* v */ Clarify what happens when pop is run inside a foreach
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00:39:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bubbles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94808&oldid=83797 * IFcoltransG * (+715) /* Ideas */ Respond to ideas
00:40:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bubbles]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94809&oldid=94808 * IFcoltransG * (-10) Wording of my comment
00:56:18 <esolangs> [[Bubbles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94810&oldid=94807 * IFcoltransG * (+111) /* v */ Impose rules for v
01:12:53 <esolangs> [[Huh?++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94811&oldid=42214 * David.werecat * (-15)
01:13:27 <esolangs> [[PP TIBSA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94812&oldid=31792 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:14:06 <esolangs> [[Huh?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94813&oldid=67859 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:14:33 <esolangs> [[CurSorn2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94814&oldid=31729 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:15:49 <esolangs> [[Chafa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94815&oldid=79192 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:16:30 <esolangs> [[DBFV!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94816&oldid=35611 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:17:05 <esolangs> [[/~]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94817&oldid=40965 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:17:31 <esolangs> [[Robol(in)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94818&oldid=31723 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:18:16 <esolangs> [[ProgFk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94819&oldid=31705 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:18:42 <esolangs> [[2B]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94820&oldid=69677 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:19:09 <esolangs> [[123]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94821&oldid=83753 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:19:40 <esolangs> [[Mobius]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94822&oldid=79753 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:20:14 <esolangs> [[VTL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94823&oldid=32340 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:20:48 <esolangs> [[Asdf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94824&oldid=57542 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:21:53 <esolangs> [[Benul]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94825&oldid=33354 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:22:19 <esolangs> [[RunR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94826&oldid=58848 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:22:45 <esolangs> [[URSL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94827&oldid=32333 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:23:14 <esolangs> [[ELANG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94828&oldid=31731 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:23:41 <esolangs> [[SVM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94829&oldid=31712 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:24:03 <esolangs> [[BFO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94830&oldid=32699 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:24:46 <esolangs> [[VerboseFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94831&oldid=42065 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:25:02 <esolangs> [[Macmac]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94832&oldid=32368 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:25:19 <esolangs> [[Logical]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94833&oldid=53266 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:25:33 <esolangs> [[Nqubl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94834&oldid=33244 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:25:52 <esolangs> [[Monkeys]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94835&oldid=44234 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:26:07 <esolangs> [[Pit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94836&oldid=40969 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:26:36 <esolangs> [[Tonoco]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94837&oldid=46092 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:27:06 <esolangs> [[BSM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94838&oldid=32528 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:27:42 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94839&oldid=93403 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:28:31 <esolangs> [[Logical/Interpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94840&oldid=66189 * David.werecat * (+3)
01:29:07 <esolangs> [[Doorspace]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94841&oldid=46911 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:29:17 <esolangs> [[Dark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94842&oldid=40967 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:29:27 <esolangs> [[Dirst]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94843&oldid=84320 * David.werecat * (-13)
01:31:55 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94844&oldid=94716 * David.werecat * (-52)
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03:40:10 <esolangs> [[2ds]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94845 * Zip * (+4533) Created page with "2ds (standing for 2-Dimensional Stack) is a language that operates, on, as you could probably tell from the name, a 2-dimensional stack. Its syntax is inspired by [[Forth]]...."
03:41:37 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94846&oldid=94751 * Zip * (+10)
03:42:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94847&oldid=94846 * Zip * (+0)
03:48:51 <esolangs> [[2ds]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94848&oldid=94845 * Zip * (+105)
03:57:47 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94849&oldid=94183 * Zip * (+58)
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04:54:52 <esolangs> [[2ds]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94850&oldid=94848 * Zip * (+2793) added 99 bottles of beer on the wall
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05:00:49 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94851&oldid=94806 * QuarticSushi * (+82) Added CLAG
05:17:31 -!- sprocket has changed nick to sprock.
06:18:08 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94852&oldid=94762 * QuarticSushi * (+181)
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07:58:12 <esolangs> [[Shoe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94853 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+529) Created page with "'''Shoe'''(pu'''SH''' d'''O'''wn machin'''E''') is push-down automation by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08|ChuckEsoteric08]] that compiles into [[Fist]] ==Commands== {| class="wikitabl..."
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08:03:22 <esolangs> [[Shoe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94854&oldid=94853 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+89)
08:05:11 <esolangs> [[Shoe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94855&oldid=94854 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+85)
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08:39:29 <esolangs> [[Byte Syze]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94856&oldid=31582 * Smjg * (+3) tpyo
09:17:44 <esolangs> [[Shoe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94857&oldid=94855 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+61)
09:36:51 <esolangs> [[Shoe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94858&oldid=94857 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
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10:22:36 <river> https://twitter.com/henryseg/status/1515402835814404118 new dice bout to drop
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13:52:41 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94859&oldid=94783 * QuarticSushi * (+238) /* Original Python Interpreter */
13:53:34 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94860&oldid=94859 * QuarticSushi * (-16)
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14:09:54 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94861&oldid=94860 * QuarticSushi * (+483) /* Language Overview */
14:30:03 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94862&oldid=94861 * QuarticSushi * (+4)
14:30:35 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94863&oldid=94862 * QuarticSushi * (+5)
14:31:48 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94864&oldid=94863 * QuarticSushi * (+13)
14:33:03 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94865&oldid=94864 * QuarticSushi * (+24)
14:36:30 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94866&oldid=94852 * QuarticSushi * (+235)
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15:14:11 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94867&oldid=94865 * QuarticSushi * (+660) /* Examples */
15:15:26 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94868&oldid=94867 * QuarticSushi * (+5) /* Hello, World! */
15:17:48 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94869&oldid=94868 * QuarticSushi * (-17) /* Interpreters */
15:18:20 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94870&oldid=94869 * QuarticSushi * (+1) /* = pyCLAG */
15:19:12 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94871&oldid=94870 * QuarticSushi * (+46) /* CLAGy */
15:19:49 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94872&oldid=94871 * QuarticSushi * (+4) /* Polyglot */
15:24:35 <esolangs> [[User:David.werecat/BFBench]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94873&oldid=36933 * David.werecat * (-13)
15:26:10 <esolangs> [[User:David.werecat/BFBench]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94874&oldid=94873 * David.werecat * (-29)
15:28:55 <esolangs> [[User:Rdebath]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94875&oldid=53168 * David.werecat * (-57)
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17:45:05 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94876&oldid=94847 * QuarticSushi * (+11) /* C */
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20:09:22 <esolangs> [[!!Fuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94877&oldid=74261 * QuarticSushi * (+4)
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20:11:52 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94878&oldid=93163 * QuarticSushi * (+0) /* Example Members of the TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution family */
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20:56:05 <esolangs> [[2ds]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94879&oldid=94850 * Zip * (+2)
21:01:05 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94880&oldid=94878 * QuarticSushi * (+1685) /* Example Members of the TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution family */
21:04:26 <esolangs> [[CLAG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94881&oldid=94872 * QuarticSushi * (+0) capitalisation
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23:24:09 <esolangs> [[Ger]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94882&oldid=93802 * Helo211 * (+0)
23:38:21 <esolangs> [[User:Helo211]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94883 * Helo211 * (+61) Created page with "Hello! My name is Helo211 and I came here to show my esolang."
23:39:04 <esolangs> [[Ger]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94884&oldid=94882 * Helo211 * (+18)
2022-04-18
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13:58:21 <esolangs> [[User:IkenusDisnem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94885&oldid=94630 * IkenusDisnem * (+79) yes
13:58:34 <esolangs> [[User:IkenusDisnem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94886&oldid=94885 * IkenusDisnem * (+0) /* Im a human who believes in a Deity */
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18:40:19 <esolangs> [[BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94887&oldid=94284 * Lemonz * (+43) /* Other programs */
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19:10:48 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94888&oldid=94866 * QuarticSushi * (+375) /* Unnamed language */
19:11:44 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94889&oldid=94888 * QuarticSushi * (+33)
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20:06:57 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94890&oldid=94889 * QuarticSushi * (+63) /* Languages */
20:07:07 <esolangs> [[User:QuarticSushi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94891&oldid=94890 * QuarticSushi * (+0) /* 9+19 */
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21:06:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94892&oldid=94801 * Indigo * (+189) /* Introductions */
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23:51:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94893&oldid=94753 * Zero player rodent * (+466)
23:56:04 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94894&oldid=94768 * Zero player rodent * (+155)
2022-04-19
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00:39:16 <CloudsSystem> hello yall
00:40:46 <CloudsSystem> i'm wondering how an I/D machine can halt https://esolangs.org/wiki/I/D_machine
00:42:26 <CloudsSystem> because a turing machine must be able to halt i think
00:42:48 <CloudsSystem> a turing complete machine*
00:43:00 <CloudsSystem> otherwise the halting problem could just answered "nothing ever halts"
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01:04:53 <CloudsSystem> figured it out
01:09:16 <Corbin> What did you conclude? I'm interested in the discussion.
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01:12:13 <zzo38> What I think is that there are ways that it can be Turing-complete even if it does not halt, because for example, there may be loops that repeat the same state, states that can be the goal state, etc. Maybe something else too
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01:22:06 <CloudsSystem> i concluded that a loop in which nothing is done is equivelant to halting
01:22:26 <CloudsSystem> an infinite loop*
01:23:37 <CloudsSystem> @Corbin
01:23:38 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
01:23:46 <CloudsSystem> lol
01:27:23 <CloudsSystem> well, functionally equivelant
01:27:35 <CloudsSystem> because nothing more can be done
01:33:34 <Corbin> Makes sense.
03:23:29 <esolangs> [[BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISEBASE64BITWISE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94895&oldid=94887 * Lemonz * (+148)
03:27:39 <b_jonas> it's funny how some modern devices operated by AA or AAA batteries no longer have clear marking of the expected polarity displayed on them. probably because these days it's so trivial to protect the devices against wrong polarity that they expect you to just TIAS if it works.
05:53:26 <zzo38> I think I may have noticed that once; I do not remember for sure. I do not have many modern devices with batteries, or have not looked at the batteries often.
06:13:09 <b_jonas> I have noticed it recently with my wireless mice, and a silly portable electric liquid soap dispenser in the office
06:22:28 <shachaf> Now I've solved every puzzle in Patrick's Parabox.
07:04:25 <b_jonas> shachaf: nice. though I bet people on the internet will make third party puzzles faster than you can solve them.
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07:39:50 <Taneb> I should do more puzzles. Like, I should actually finish Baba is You (I am not good at puzzles though)
07:40:54 <shachaf> Didn't Baba is You add hundreds of new puzzles recently or something?
07:41:11 <shachaf> Patrick's Parabox is not very hard, I think.
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17:57:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SirBrahms * New user account
18:01:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94896&oldid=94892 * SirBrahms * (+214) /* Introductions */
18:02:00 <river> yes
18:02:04 <river> parabox was bizarrely easy
18:02:07 <river> i don't really get how
18:02:20 <river> I think recursed was much harder and deeper
18:02:42 <river> the new baba level pack is good, but very difficult
18:02:50 <river> i can't figure out a lot of levels
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18:05:34 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94897 * SirBrahms * (+237) The Main Page for the COSOL esolang
18:07:13 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94898&oldid=94897 * SirBrahms * (+4) /* Features */
18:07:34 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94899&oldid=94898 * SirBrahms * (+2) /* Features */
18:10:48 <river> oh this "Shrodingers SAT" pun from sigbovik is too perfect
18:11:05 <esolangs> [[User:SirBrahms]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94900 * SirBrahms * (+75) Created page with "It is I, SirBrahms! I am here to create the Common Stack Oriented Language!"
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18:13:16 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94901&oldid=94876 * SirBrahms * (+12) /* C */
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19:43:33 <zzo38> I have played some puzzle games, although not the ones you listed
19:47:34 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94902&oldid=94899 * SirBrahms * (+12) /* Features */
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20:09:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jan Gamecuber * New user account
20:15:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94903&oldid=94896 * Jan Gamecuber * (+211) /* Introductions */
20:17:19 <esolangs> [[User:Jan Gamecuber]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94904 * Jan Gamecuber * (+71) Created page with "Just somebody who wants to see this site prosper by adding some things."
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20:24:49 <zzo38> I played game called "Brain'n Bells" for Game Boy Advance; I had found the source codes and ported it to Free Hero Mesh. I also had play Hero Hearts; I like that game too. And, there are a few others, too. Maybe we can make up some more puzzle games too
20:25:39 <zzo38> Do you like Hero Hearts game too?
20:27:23 <zzo38> (At first it was DOS and then 16-bit Windows, although the 32-bit Windows version is actually written in "KCPU" which may be possible to port to other systems. However, this is unnecessary if you are using Linux since my own Free Hero Mesh software is compatible with the Hero Hearts puzzles too. Note, however, that I had tested then with the 16-bit versions and not the 32-bit versions so I don't know if it works, but it might work)
20:28:40 <zzo38> Another game on Game Boy Advance is "Puzzle Dungeon"
20:35:55 <esolangs> [[User:SirBrahms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94905&oldid=94900 * SirBrahms * (+12)
20:37:03 <zzo38> Have you played any of these games?
20:37:12 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94906&oldid=94902 * SirBrahms * (+38) /* Features */
20:41:38 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94907&oldid=94906 * SirBrahms * (+202)
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20:43:08 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94908&oldid=94907 * SirBrahms * (+37) /* External Resources */
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21:09:24 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94909&oldid=94908 * Indigo * (+10)
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21:26:08 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94910&oldid=94909 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) Categories
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23:33:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94911&oldid=94903 * Atan * (+134)
23:33:26 <esolangs> [[Springboard]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94912 * Atan * (+13528) First edition
23:35:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94913&oldid=94901 * Atan * (+18)
2022-04-20
00:02:26 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94914 * Jan Gamecuber * (+1828) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''sitelen ilo''' is a programming language based on toki pona (made with the knowledge of [[toki pi ilo nanpa]] and [[sona]]. It was made by jan Gamecuber. ==Fo..."
00:04:24 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94915&oldid=94894 * Zero player rodent * (+540)
00:06:06 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94916&oldid=94915 * Zero player rodent * (+93)
00:07:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sitelen ilo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94917 * Jan Gamecuber * (+174) Created page with "Can somebody please finish the categorisation and all that for me? Thanks. ~~~~"
00:09:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94918&oldid=94913 * Jan Gamecuber * (+18)
00:11:49 <esolangs> [[User:IkenusDisnem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94919&oldid=94886 * IkenusDisnem * (-17) cool
00:21:17 <esolangs> [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94920&oldid=94632 * IkenusDisnem * (+351) built-in vars
00:29:20 <esolangs> [[User:Jan Gamecuber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94921&oldid=94904 * Jan Gamecuber * (+24)
00:33:26 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94922&oldid=94914 * Indigo * (+260)
01:00:40 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94923&oldid=94922 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+68) Categories
01:13:28 <esolangs> [[Child]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94924&oldid=37349 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) category
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02:52:53 <esolangs> [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94925&oldid=94920 * Indigo * (+13)
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06:41:22 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94926&oldid=94918 * NikiTricky * (+19)
06:45:05 <esolangs> [[TurtleDigits]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94927&oldid=94791 * NikiTricky * (+49) Add categories
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11:12:10 <river> > There is no natural number, n, such that n's interpretation as an ASCII string is a proof of this statement.
11:12:12 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:27: error: parse error on input ‘,’
11:12:17 <river> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1052299/what-is-a-simple-example-of-an-unprovable-statement/1057014#1057014
11:12:19 <river> nice one
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13:16:45 <esolangs> [[User:FrankPujo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94928&oldid=94516 * FrankPujo * (+18)
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14:10:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Exanc * New user account
14:12:54 <esolangs> [[Linguarcana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94929&oldid=94522 * FrankPujo * (+228)
14:16:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94930&oldid=94911 * Exanc * (+172) A small introduction of myself :)
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14:31:36 <esolangs> [[BS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94931&oldid=89320 * Exanc * (+173) /* External Links */ The first link was outdated, also added a link to the more recent talk.
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14:42:55 <kee> Hi, I'm trying to win an argument about x86. Does anyone remember the name of that tiny esolang that was based on offsets in an x86 COM file, where the implementation of all the instructions overlapped a lot?
14:48:00 <kee> It's Barely. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Barely. Thanks for being a rubber duck.
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15:10:23 * sknebel quacks
15:11:31 <esolangs> [[BS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94932&oldid=94931 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-12) Remove redlinks to non-esoteric languages, add link to Python
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15:20:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Snwy * New user account
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15:24:50 <snwy> wtf is up with the wiki. i tried to add my introduction (first edit) at the bottom of the introductions section, and i was given an error message saying i did a harmful action, and the description of the "abuse" was "new users edit the introduction page".
15:25:02 <snwy> or something along those lines. i already closed the tab
15:29:25 <snwy> i attempted again, and i got this error ```Notice: Due to frequent attacks by spammers, we now have to introduce extra verification steps for new users.
15:29:26 <snwy> In order to edit here, please follow the instructions on Esolang:Introduce yourself.``` while editing the introductions page.
15:29:33 <snwy> i give up
15:30:04 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, your actually disallowed edit was disallowed because it deleted an (empty) line.
15:30:19 <fizzie> I'm not sure what's up with the warning though.
15:30:21 <snwy> ohh
15:30:57 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: there's only 1-2 people around who actually understand the AbuseFilter rules, and I'm not one of them.)
15:32:02 <snwy> my subsequent attempts to add my introduction just tell me i need to follow the instructions on the introductions page, which is what i'm doing
15:32:05 <snwy> i'm confused
15:32:50 <fizzie> Oh, it's the link.
15:33:03 <snwy> ohhhhh that makes sense
15:33:36 <fizzie> That's part of the rules too. Don't put (external) links in your introduction. Didn't notice that part at first, because the system just says the rule as a whole matches, not exactly _why_ it does.
15:34:45 <snwy> it appears i am blind.
15:34:45 <fizzie> It's all very ridiculous and convoluted, but by Murphy's law if we disabled that, we'd get one of those spam waves the very next day I'm sure.
15:35:13 <snwy> thank you
15:36:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94933&oldid=94930 * Snwy * (+172) /* Introductions */
15:37:12 <snwy> finally lol
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16:30:39 <esolangs> [[Gotohell]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94934 * Snwy * (+1725) Created page with "Gotohell is a variation of C that disallows any flow control or function definitions (besides <code>main</code>), and focuses on defining labels and using the <code>goto</code..."
16:31:01 <zzo38> Now it says in Magic: the Gathering they added interchangeable/alternate names. I should expect that this and some other things, they would do better to simply always distinguish that the name of the card and the spelling of the name (i.e. what the name of the card is called); in this case a name may be spelled in multiple ways (even in English), but it is the same name.
16:33:23 <zzo38> (They had previously changed the rule about token names too to improve it, but I think that they could have done it better, although what they did still works too, I think that it isn't as good)
16:33:57 <zzo38> (My which I mean to distinguish the name from the spelling)
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16:47:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: are you refering to the Ikoria variant cards that have an extra name line that should be ignored for game purposes, with the real name in the second line eg. https://scryfall.com/card/iko/375/yidaro-wandering-monster ?
16:49:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: or to the lots of cards whose names used to begin with Æther but have been changed to Aether, eg. https://scryfall.com/card/znc/23/aetherize
16:50:14 <b_jonas> I think the latter isn't an alternative name, it's oracle errata where the already printed cards now have an inaccurate name, which probably only happened twice before the Aether mass-renaming
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17:00:14 <zzo38> I refer to the recent Comprehensive Rules Changes document
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17:55:23 <CloudsSystem> hello o/
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17:55:36 <CloudsSystem> I just finished making an I/D machine interpreter
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17:56:18 <CloudsSystem> should I edit the I/D machine wiki page's implementations section to include it?
17:56:23 <CloudsSystem> what's the standard practice
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18:31:53 <b_jonas> CloudsSystem: you can put an implementation there, yes. if it's not small then instead put it somewhere else and link to it from the wiki page.
18:36:32 <CloudsSystem> yeah ill put it in external links
18:36:46 <CloudsSystem> o wait
18:36:48 <CloudsSystem> misunderstood
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18:36:51 <CloudsSystem> yeah ill do that
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18:46:21 <esolangs> [[I/D machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94935&oldid=68712 * Palaiologos * (+108) add a Zig implementation to the list
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20:43:01 <oren> int test(void*x,int y,int z) { return ((typeof(&test))((void*(*)(void*))x)((void*)&test))(x,y,z);
20:43:43 <oren> why does gcc save rbp, rbx, and r12 to the stack, then save rdi, rsi, rdx into those registers
20:44:00 <oren> why doesn't it just push rdi rsi and rdx to the stack to save them
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20:59:04 <fizzie> It almost does if you tell it to optimize for size, at least here. It still pushes %rbx, saves %rdi there, but then it puts %esi and %edx directly on the stack and restores them from there (with mov, not push/pop).
20:59:08 <fizzie> I imagine the real answer is, as always, "because of internal implementation details".
21:03:21 <oren> yeah on -Os it does better than clang
21:03:53 <oren> on -O2 clang and GCC both have the same weird register allocation problem
21:13:12 <esolangs> [[OISC2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94936 * McChuck * (+3681) Obfuscated indirect subleq with coprocessor: 2 word instructions
21:14:06 <esolangs> [[OISC2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94937&oldid=94936 * McChuck * (+7)
21:22:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * McChuck * moved [[OISC2]] to [[OISC:2]]: Incorrect title. Didn't know the colon could be included.
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21:24:36 <esolangs> [[Subleq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94940&oldid=92059 * McChuck * (+78) /* See also */
21:29:18 <b_jonas> what's that gcc dialect C nonsense
21:31:38 <b_jonas> ok wait, so parsing that, you cast x to a function pointer, call it with the single argument ((void*)test), cast the return value back to a pointer to three-argument function, then call the resulting function with three arguments (x,y,z)
21:33:31 <esolangs> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94941&oldid=88614 * McChuck * (+69) /* List of OISCs */
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22:13:05 <fizzie> I believe it's quite likely WG14 will adopt `typeof` into C23.
22:15:29 <zzo38> Are there other features of GNU C that will be in standard C later? Which ones do you expect to be and which ones not? I use zero-length arrays (sometimes), and ?: with nothing between ? and : (more often)
22:15:39 <zzo38> (and probably others too, that I commonly use)
22:16:07 <fizzie> Binary integer literals (0b01010) have already been incorporated in the current C23 drafts, and are I think also a GNU extension.
22:18:30 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94942&oldid=94916 * Zero player rodent * (-1)
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22:35:31 <oren> b_jonas: yes, that's exactly what I do
22:36:22 <oren> (it's simplified from a more complicated example that does a kind of virtual function call)
22:36:42 <oren> but without a vtable
22:38:02 <oren> the idea is that an object always contains as its first element a pointer to a function that maps each virtual function to its particular implementation of that function
22:38:37 <oren> so it's like a vtable but without the vtable's layout being part of the ABI
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22:42:51 <shachaf> fizzie: I wonder whether I'm a little bit to blame for that?
22:43:10 <shachaf> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2927.htm links to my code.
22:43:34 <shachaf> Though I think this code is not a good motivation for typeof at all.
22:54:59 <b_jonas> I wish we had a typeof (and an offsetof) in rust already. Though while we're there, offsetof needs to be properly specified in the C and C++ standards. Because it's a macro and not a keyword the standards fail to list all the restrictions and rules in standardese and just gloss over them, so implementations used to differ. Though that may have changed since I looked at this years ago.
22:55:59 <b_jonas> Rust is growing a more sophisticated generics mechanism, so it needs a typeof/decltype. They recently added a static_assert, the rest is inevitable too.
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23:39:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94943&oldid=94388 * Lemonz * (-6276)
23:42:46 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94944&oldid=94793 * Lemonz * (-112)
23:43:34 <esolangs> [[OISC:2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94945&oldid=94938 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) Categories
23:44:09 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94946&oldid=94926 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* O */ add
23:49:54 <esolangs> [[YASBL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94947&oldid=40568 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Add category
2022-04-21
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00:03:46 <esolangs> [[Mindcrush]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94948&oldid=66255 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+67) Add categories, use HTTPS
00:24:06 <zzo38> I have sometimes used typeof. It is sometimes useful in macros
00:26:30 <zzo38> Is there a list of all proposals?
00:31:09 <esolangs> [[X(?)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94949 * Lemonz * (+3621) Created page with "'''X(?)''' is an entirely probabilistic Esolang while one command is present: X(?), this command does a random thing from a list of commands and feeds in random parameters, li..."
00:31:22 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94950&oldid=94944 * Lemonz * (+12) /* Actually a thing language */
00:45:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG14/www/wg14_document_log.htm probably
00:45:49 <b_jonas> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/ for C++
01:01:23 <zzo38> I like the #embed idea (I had seen before). Some of my ideas for improvement of C is scoped macros (which work during the main part of the compiler instead of the preprocessor, and are treated like identifiers whose type is a macro), extended macros (which can themself define new macros, etc), and a few others
01:02:09 <zzo38> Also, fopencookie is another one
01:04:20 <esolangs> [[FOSCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94951&oldid=49001 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+82) Categories
01:05:09 <b_jonas> I still don't much care what gets into C/zig and just use C++/rust for everything
01:05:21 <b_jonas> C has to stay around so we can compile existing programs of course
01:06:15 <esolangs> [[FOS-X]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94952&oldid=49056 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) WIP, category
01:10:41 <b_jonas> I like don't get the point of language that is founded on "let's follow everything that C++/Rust does, copy all its modern features, except we don't have objects with nontrivial destructors to distinguish C++/Rust from C/zig." why? how is that a useful paradigm?
01:15:51 <oren> I'm pretty sure there are a lot more differences between C and C++ than that
01:16:09 <oren> Even in the most modern versions
01:16:33 <b_jonas> yes, but that's the point, why do we need all those differences so you have to learn them instead of only using C++ for new code?
01:16:47 <oren> That said, I do not see the point of Zig if Zig does not eliminate entirely the concept of undefined behaviour
01:17:26 <oren> because C++ has a more inconsistent ABI
01:18:01 <oren> and Rust doesn't even have an ABI at all
01:19:22 <b_jonas> yes. how it works is basically that there's a common lowest denominator ABI, historically defined by C, and now all these languages (C++, rust etc) let you call functions of that ABI and write functions exported with that ABI, and then you can call from one language to the other
01:21:30 <b_jonas> but you can have stuff with an inconsistent ABI in C too, if you try to use certain library features whose ABI depend on what defines you set or what compile options you use like whether you enable threading or 32-bit largefiles or just try to refer to libc types like FILE in windows or, heaven forbid, refer to the type long between windows gcc and windows msvc
01:22:57 <b_jonas> why doesn't windows gcc just support an msvc-like target where long is 32 bits long instead of 64 I don't really get. I understand why it can't imitate all of the libc abis in various msvc versions, but what's up with long?
01:23:45 <b_jonas> gcc has like hundreds of weird options for C that let it become seriously ABI-incompatible with itself even on linux, why not support 32-bit longs too?
01:25:41 <oren> Zig is currently the best contender for replacing C, but it probably can't because it doesn't solve any of the problems with C
01:29:31 <oren> An ideal contender would have an actual spec, no undefined behaviour in that spec, and a fully-defined ABI on all major hardware platforms
01:31:45 <oren> Then languages could be configured to use *that* ABI instead of the fuzzy C one
01:33:53 <oren> And writers of super low level code could quit worrying about the next LLVM release remisinterpreting their code in a new creative way
01:34:23 <zzo38> I think some kinds of undefined behaviour are acceptable, if they partially define what kinds of things might happen, but C has too much. Also, the good features of C will have to be kept, and many ones trying to replace C don't do so. Furthermore, many new designs are using Unicode, and I think that is a bad idea; a replacment for C must not use Unicode.
01:36:24 <b_jonas> oren: I disagree. you can't have the full power of no memory safety and still have a memory-safe (required for no undefined behavior) language. and we do have the core C ABIs defined well enough in papers, that's why all the languages can implement it, while they can do experiments with a changing API for when you don't need to have a function in that ABI
01:37:09 <b_jonas> nor can you just replace the C ABI with something different, we have lots of existing libraries compiled to it that we have to be able to call
01:37:50 <b_jonas> you can add stuff to it, slowly, like how a bool type is now part of it effectively because all of C99, C++, rust etc support that type
01:38:36 <b_jonas> so is a 64-bit integer type on 32-bit systems
01:41:49 <b_jonas> and you can't have an ABI where you can call non-memory-safe functions from a memory-safe language
01:42:16 <b_jonas> you can have a large part of your program memory-safe, which you can already do if you use the right subsets of C++ or rust
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01:44:41 <oren> "no undefined behaviour" doesn't mean "memory safe"
01:44:48 <b_jonas> yes, it means more
01:44:52 <b_jonas> memory safe is a requirement for it
01:44:58 <b_jonas> it's just one of the harder parts
01:45:22 <oren> No, it means the language definition does not contain a clause stating that "anything can happen if X is true"
01:45:41 <int-e> anything can happen if you change the bits representing a pointer
01:46:17 <int-e> you can't really expect to do better than that and still have a high level language (that takes care of memory representation of objects and their location)
01:46:50 <int-e> if you can't do that to a pointer, you have a memory-safe language
01:47:09 <int-e> so yeah, I'm agreeing with b_jonas here.
01:48:27 <oren> The clause should instead state that, for instance "the machine code accessing a pointer shall be emitted in all cases as if the address was valid for an object of the pointer's referent type"
01:49:06 <oren> Rather than being allowed to do anything it wants in the case where the compiler doesn't think the pointer is valid
01:50:09 <b_jonas> and further, nontrivial destructors (which C++/Rust have and C/zig specifically exclude) are a very useful tool to have a memory-safe subset. it lets you avoid use after free. you deallocate something when your smart pointer variable goes out of scope then you won't accidentally dereference it after having freed it. if you have no custom destructors then you have to call the deallocation function
01:50:15 <b_jonas> yourself, and the language won't notice that you call the deallocation first and then dereference, because the deallocation function is not special, it's just an ordinary function.
01:50:33 <b_jonas> I'm still allowed to cheat that with the non-memory-safe subset of C++/rust.
01:51:11 <b_jonas> and yes, destructors aren't the only part, you can for example index past an array in C++ or rust if you call the functions that don't check array bounds, or do undefined behavior in other ways.
01:53:46 <oren> But indexing past an array end does not have to be udefined behaviour in the C sense- instead the compiler could be required to emit the indexing logic normally regardless of whether the index is valid.
01:54:05 <b_jonas> they're not the only tool, types themselves are a useful tool as opposed to old untyped languages, but these modern languages already all have types
01:55:56 <oren> C doesn't really have types... it has implementor-defined types
01:56:39 <b_jonas> C has user-defined types. I can define two custom types and then I can't accidentally pass the wrong type of value to my function because the function prototype tells which type it accepts.
01:56:55 <b_jonas> the compiler will complain if I try to pass the wrong one
01:56:59 <b_jonas> this is what I mean by the type system
01:57:26 <b_jonas> C++, zig, rust also all allow this
01:57:42 <oren> iirc the compiler doesn't complain if you pass an int to a function taking a unsigned
01:58:37 <b_jonas> yes, there are cases when it just converts the type automatically, but that's irrelevant
01:59:11 <oren> well Zig actually fixes this problem
01:59:36 <oren> Zig requires explicit type conversions in a lot of places where C doesn't
01:59:52 <oren> So I guess that's one thing with C that Zig fixes
02:02:14 <b_jonas> sure, there's a degree of difference in how much the builtin and library types are discriminated. but since you can define user-defined types, if you don't want to mix signed and unsigned numbers then you can wrap them in your custom types and use them that way, similarly if you don't want to mix ordinary arrays vs sorted arrays vs binary heaps like the old C++ standard library expects then you can
02:02:20 <b_jonas> define a new flat_map type that represents a sorted array and a new type that represents a binary heap
02:02:27 <oren> Too bad Zig doesn't fix the number one problem people have with C/C++, the UB. Probably because someone told them they couldn't have fast code generated without UB and they believed it.
02:03:05 <b_jonas> boost defines the flat_map, recent versions of the C++ standard define the heap (called std::priority_queue)
02:04:21 <esolangs> [[X(?)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94953&oldid=94949 * Lemonz * (+5)
02:04:21 <b_jonas> oren: no, it's because we don't want to discard all our existing libraries, and you can only call them from your language if your language allows undefined behavior in most of the ways that those libraries allow
02:04:28 <b_jonas> the ABIs of those libraries
02:04:45 <esolangs> [[X(?)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94954&oldid=94953 * Lemonz * (+5) /* Q(?) */
02:05:06 <oren> Again, I mean by this C-style UB, i.e. cases in whihc the language compiler is allowed to emit any machine code that it wants
02:05:23 <b_jonas> you can define safe wrappers around them, like there are thin C++ or rust wrappers around lots of C libraries that wrap them in abstractions like calling the deallocating C function from a real destructor
02:06:07 <b_jonas> you can have a compiler or language that doesn't allow you to call the existing libraries, but it's not very useful
02:07:51 <b_jonas> so either the language doesn't get much use as a general purpose language.
02:08:00 <oren> I don't see why being able to call functions written in other languages requires *this* language to have constructs with UB
02:08:29 <oren> Sure the behaviour of functions written in other languages is defined by those languages
02:09:06 <oren> But the machine code emitted by the Zig compiler could be fully specified by the Zig language spec
02:09:47 <b_jonas> you can have sandboxed execution, like how the (java, javascript, flash, webasm) code in my browser isn't supposed to be able to access things outside the browser sandbox even when it trashes its own memory; or how my user programs ran on linux aren't supposed to get root access even when they trash their own memory; or in CPUs where even to the extent of little undefined behavior in how the CPU can
02:09:54 <b_jonas> behave how it wants isn't supposed to allowed to allow breaking out of the sandbox so the user-space program gets operating system access
02:09:59 <b_jonas> the sandboxes have bugs but the intention is that you can't break out of them
02:10:43 <b_jonas> but with all of these, the programs can still be unsafe if they want within their sandbox, completely break their own environment
02:10:57 <oren> why are you conflating safety with specifiedness
02:12:39 <oren> Like, I think that the C spec should say that the behaviour of say, int32_t*x = 0; *x = 1; should be to access the address 0 and write the 32-bit number 0x00000001 to it.
02:13:50 <oren> that may result in turn in various other things happening, of course, but the C spec doesn't need to say that anywhere. The C spec should simply specify what kind of machine code should be emitted by given C code
02:16:57 <oren> Unfortunately, that's not how C is specified, and that's the root of the problem
02:30:50 <oren> Another example: they did not need to specify that signed integer overflow is UB-- instead they should have specified that adding two signed integers with the + operator shall emit machine code that adds them together in the normal way for the platform; any unexpected result of that, does not need to be given any mention in the language spec
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02:39:08 <b_jonas> [ 6e3%120
02:39:13 <b_jonas> ] 6e3%120
02:42:38 <oren> 0
04:04:21 <zzo38> Yes, that would help, although GCC has -fwrapv and -ftrapv flags, but just emitting a add instruction would do if you do not use these flags. (On MMIX, there is a separate signed and unsigned addition instructions; the signed one can be an error but unsigned one is never an error)
05:16:12 <b_jonas> zzo38: x86 used to have an instruction specifically for this too, but it was rarely used and taking up precious one-byte instruction space so they eliminated it for x86_64
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08:32:04 <fizzie> Re the wiki migration, it's nominally scheduled at 1pm BST, so I think I'll go read-only at around 11am. Looks like there's not much wiki activity going on anyway (maybe the announcement scared people off).
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13:36:23 <b_jonas> so did the migration happen?
13:36:30 <b_jonas> is this the new server already?
13:36:40 <b_jonas> fungot, where do I find the Holy Grail?
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13:48:02 <b_jonas> fungot?
13:49:21 <fizzie> It could be. It's hard to say since it's supposed to remain a KVM thing, and keep the existing IP address and things.
13:49:54 <b_jonas> ok
13:50:52 <fizzie> They sent an email at 1pm that it's going to start, and haven't sent another one since then, so I guess I'll just wait.
13:51:07 <b_jonas> ok
13:51:10 <fizzie> The absence of fungot is probably unrelated.
13:51:38 <b_jonas> did they say an order of magnitude for how long the migration is expected to take? an hour, a day, a week?
13:56:17 <fizzie> I think they said 1-2 hours, which would be about now.
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13:57:32 <fizzie> fungot: And how are you feeling?
13:57:32 <fungot> fizzie: are you sure the first runs didn't move the file into ( scheme-report-environment 5)
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14:12:41 <b_jonas> ok, then I'll wait a few more hours and then if the wiki works I'll assume it's the new one
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18:06:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Xanadryden * New user account
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18:09:50 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94955 * Otesunki * (+2842) initial commit
18:11:37 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94956&oldid=94955 * Otesunki * (-3) correcting several spelling errors + reordering
18:13:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94957&oldid=94933 * Xanadryden * (+310)
18:15:50 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94958&oldid=94851 * Otesunki * (+72)
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18:20:21 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94959&oldid=94956 * Otesunki * (+166) categorization
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18:23:33 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94960&oldid=94959 * Otesunki * (+111) elaborate on errors
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18:29:44 <fizzie> They say it's migrated now.
18:29:57 <fizzie> Should take out that message then, I guess.
18:33:04 <b_jonas> sure
18:35:41 <esolangs> [[FP trivia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94961&oldid=89229 * Fpstefan * (+12) /* External links */
18:38:58 <esolangs> [[Vurl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94962&oldid=94639 * Viba * (+118) add link to vurlrs
18:40:19 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94963&oldid=91540 * Xanadryden * (+1538) Fix stub.
19:11:20 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94964&oldid=94910 * SirBrahms * (+2996) Add small documentation and Examples
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19:12:52 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94965&oldid=94964 * SirBrahms * (+0) /* Value formating */
19:16:32 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94966&oldid=94965 * SirBrahms * (+121) /* Value formating */
19:17:50 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94967&oldid=94966 * SirBrahms * (+1) /* Value formating */
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19:34:51 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94968&oldid=94967 * SirBrahms * (+1234) Add conditional documentation
19:35:23 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94969&oldid=94968 * SirBrahms * (+1) /* Examples of conditionals */
19:35:49 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94970&oldid=94969 * SirBrahms * (+9) /* Examples of conditionals */
19:41:29 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94971&oldid=94942 * Zero player rodent * (+45)
19:44:28 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94972&oldid=94970 * SirBrahms * (+729) Add loop-documentation
19:45:31 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94973&oldid=94972 * SirBrahms * (+174) /* Instructions */
19:47:17 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94974&oldid=94973 * SirBrahms * (+87) /* Comparisons */
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19:54:05 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94975&oldid=94963 * Xanadryden * (+2097) Fix stub more.
19:58:15 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94976&oldid=94974 * SirBrahms * (+1276) Add label documentation
20:00:38 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94977&oldid=94975 * Xanadryden * (+2782) /* Examples */ Added Hello World!
20:04:17 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94978&oldid=94977 * Xanadryden * (+40) /* Scenes */
20:05:41 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94979&oldid=94978 * Xanadryden * (+17) /* Hello World! */
20:11:37 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94980&oldid=94976 * SirBrahms * (+480)
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20:17:07 <esolangs> [[User:Xanadryden]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94981 * Xanadryden * (+579) Created page with "I love the ideas of making and using a programming language intentionally difficult or tedious to use, and hiding programs in seemingly inconspicuous text. I am planning a..."
20:20:50 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94982&oldid=94980 * SirBrahms * (+71) /* Examples */
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20:36:07 <zzo38> I dreamt that my character (Ziveruskex) from the GURPS game is in the hotel with us. Once we were at the entrance, where there are the telephones, to leave, Ziveruskex then decided not to come.
20:44:25 <esolangs> [[Fragile]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94983&oldid=93917 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+53) Add categories
20:46:06 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94984&oldid=94946 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) /* F */ add
20:47:35 <esolangs> [[COSOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94985&oldid=94982 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) Stub -> WIP
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21:55:03 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94986&oldid=94923 * Jan Gamecuber * (+13)
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22:15:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sitelen ilo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94987&oldid=94917 * Jan Gamecuber * (+1641) /* Turing Completeness */ new section
22:18:01 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94988&oldid=94986 * Jan Gamecuber * (-12) Turing Completeness being added to categories.
22:18:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sitelen ilo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94989&oldid=94987 * Jan Gamecuber * (+7)
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22:48:26 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94990&oldid=94971 * Zero player rodent * (+45)
22:55:05 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94991&oldid=94990 * Zero player rodent * (+144)
23:01:43 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94992&oldid=94988 * Indigo * (+53)
23:02:28 <esolangs> [[Uzumaki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94993&oldid=94991 * Zero player rodent * (+28)
2022-04-22
00:13:34 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94994&oldid=94992 * Jan Gamecuber * (+4)
00:14:16 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94995&oldid=94994 * Jan Gamecuber * (+12)
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00:19:38 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94996&oldid=94995 * Jan Gamecuber * (+33)
00:20:04 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94997&oldid=94996 * Jan Gamecuber * (+0)
00:24:10 <esolangs> [[Sitelen ilo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94998&oldid=94997 * Jan Gamecuber * (+18)
00:25:16 <Corbin> Finally, a decent use of toki pona.
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02:44:07 <esolangs> [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94999&oldid=94925 * IkenusDisnem * (-13) /* External Sources */ Updated dead link
02:50:32 <esolangs> [[It's not a mistake it's an esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95000&oldid=94999 * IkenusDisnem * (+95) /* Syntax */ extension
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04:23:19 <b_jonas> so fungot, are you back? where can I find the Holy Grail?
04:23:19 <fungot> b_jonas: i would like to
04:23:29 <b_jonas> please be more specific, fungot
04:23:30 <fungot> b_jonas: his analysis of the semantics of modules would completely alter what a feature is requested with srfi 7, which when given frobs, block until an event occurs.
04:24:22 <int-e> fungot: is there a blog post or other reference for that?
04:24:22 <fungot> int-e: ( and a somewhat weird semantics attachment to preserve whitespace and such. 4e then.
04:33:51 <Corbin> fungot: It sounds like you're implementing your own Scheme.
04:33:52 <fungot> Corbin: so i would probably implement them as a god, so don't hold your breath
04:34:05 * Corbin intimidated
05:18:31 <esolangs> [[A=B]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=95001 * HaleyHalcyon * (+2966) Created page with "'''A=B''' (pronounced "A to B") is a text replacement-based esolang. Similarly to [[Slashes|///]], the only instruction is text replacement, but there are several keywords tha..."
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06:54:18 <b_jonas> fungot, if you're awake most nights, does that mean that you're a vigilante?
06:54:18 <fungot> b_jonas: they're not being implemented in browsers, surely we can do that
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08:13:05 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95002&oldid=94844 * Dnm * (-76) Version 2 XPL0 implementation: slight modifications to factor (simplify & condense) code
08:59:31 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=95003 * Hakerh400 * (+9173) +[[Mink]]
08:59:43 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95004&oldid=93655 * Hakerh400 * (+11) +[[Mink]]
09:00:51 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95005&oldid=95003 * Hakerh400 * (-14)
09:01:36 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95006&oldid=95005 * Hakerh400 * (+6)
09:06:39 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95007&oldid=95006 * Hakerh400 * (+35)
09:08:22 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95008&oldid=95007 * Hakerh400 * (-349)
09:09:06 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95009&oldid=95008 * Hakerh400 * (-3)
09:15:22 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95010&oldid=95009 * Hakerh400 * (+131)
09:17:45 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95011&oldid=95010 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
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09:20:56 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400/Mink]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=95013&oldid=95012 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
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