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00:08:33 <oerjan> i think i had to revert Hq9++fan's superscript edit at Wikipedia too, at least there I could link an explicit policy against it - and Martin Ender reverted one on PPCG. I assume it was him, although the nicks were different.
00:09:06 <oerjan> (hm i guess i never reverted them on esolang.)
00:09:16 <int-e> I'm still not over the "fake" attribute.
00:09:33 <oerjan> i haven't read all the mess on esolangs yet.
00:10:31 <boily> who is this mysterious Hq9++fan.
00:11:30 <int-e> Somebody who prefers Unicode to proper HTML markup, at least in the case of super- and subscripts. Also someone who appears to be prone to temper tantrums. :-P
00:13:58 <oerjan> also e doesn't understand unicode dashes.
00:14:38 <oerjan> (including me.) but e persists even after being explained.
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00:20:48 <ais523> oerjan: "This page is currently inactive and is retained for historical reference."
00:20:56 <ais523> so it's maybe not the best of arguments
00:21:01 <ais523> although I agree with the content of the page as written
00:22:26 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54650&oldid=54615 * Oerjan * (-20) I disagree, because it makes it hard to see when a link should be to the wiki's own page, but isn't, which is exactly what happens here.
00:24:34 <ais523> oerjan: I seriously considered sending it to the local page rather than interwiki page
00:24:46 <ais523> maybe I should have done so
00:24:46 <esowiki> [[Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54651&oldid=46774 * Oerjan * (+67) /* External resources */ Add Wikipedia link here instead
00:26:38 <oerjan> ais523: hm if it's inactive then it's a bad idea to have WP:shortcuts going straight into the middle of it... i just completed the obvious link name, and didn't _look_ at the page outside the section.
00:27:10 <ais523> it feels like every page in Wikipedia: namespace has a shortcut
00:27:23 <ais523> reading the talk page, it seems like the particular page is inactive because it's not linked from / considered part of the main MOS
00:27:34 <ais523> and thus people are worried it'll get out of sync with common practice
00:28:34 <oerjan> hm actually i don't think i completed that directly, i _did_ find it from somewhere else.
00:28:52 <zzo38> I made a list of how common each word is in the story I was recording in my GURPS game so far, by the use of the command: (seq 1 11 | xargs -i fossil wiki export 'Session {}') | sed -r 's/<sup>[0-9]+<\/sup>|<br>//g;/^<hr>|^\||^\[|^\]/d' | egrep -ow '[-A-Za-z'"'"']+' | tr a-z A-Z | sort | uniq -c The most common word is "the", appearing 666 out of 10050 times.
00:29:00 <oerjan> i think i went via WP:NUMBERS or something.
00:29:11 <zzo38> How are you analyzing a story by the word statistics and how it is being compared to others?
00:31:30 <zzo38> Unicode superscripts/subscripts can be used when you are including examples of a Jelly code in a wiki article, but should not be used for exponents, footnotes, and all of that other stuff.
00:34:23 <oerjan> oh. i got to it from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Mathematics#Superscripts_and_subscripts. so it _is_ linked but i somehow glossed over the warning at the other end.
00:34:44 <ais523> it wouldn't be the first time that Wikipedia guidelines were internally contradictory :-D
00:35:49 <oerjan> that section also mentions the policy, although only for squares.
00:36:07 <zzo38> That is why they need a rule to "ignore all rules".
00:38:44 <int-e> hmm do you think mentioning http://www.hugi.scene.org/compo/compoold.htm#compo6 on https://esolangs.org/wiki/Golf would be appropriate?
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00:52:45 <int-e> hmm, tricky. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations has smaller implementations (than 240 bytes) for several platforms. (and already lists the competition as well)
01:08:40 <zzo38> Then you should mention such thing
01:14:18 <oerjan> <ais523> also, it's intended only for use in IPA (i.e. phonetic spelling) <-- ah, one of my favorite unusual sounds
01:15:27 <int-e> zzo38: but it's easier to just leave the page as it is... the 240 byte compiler is special in that it was produced by Urban Müller as part of designing the language.
01:15:36 <oerjan> cʟearʟy a great improvement on the usuaʟ l
01:16:20 <lambdabot> http://sfh01.sapdevcenter.com/nntp-archive/action/article/%3C47620687@forums-1-dub%3E
01:16:20 <lambdabot> Title: SAP Sybase Forums - ASE - Administration - PDF Re: Newbie - Segments Question...
01:16:42 <oerjan> that may not be the hit i wanted
01:16:48 <lambdabot> https://wikileaks.org/syria-files/docs/624165_www-asca-sy-com-.html
01:17:01 <oerjan> hm i suspect the character doesn't get through properly
01:17:09 <lambdabot> https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=4961
01:17:19 <int-e> huh, that worked for me :)
01:17:25 <oerjan> @google ʟ site:wikipedia.org
01:17:50 <ais523> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʟ
01:17:59 <int-e> actually ... I don't know whether the encoding is handled correctly in there
01:18:03 <ais523> don't bother with search engines, just type the URL you want
01:18:03 <oerjan> i suspect character encoding problems before it gets to google
01:18:11 <ais523> Wikipedia aims to have a redirect from every Unicode character to the appropriate article
01:18:30 <lambdabot> https://yomowo.com/blogs/tomsblog/21939496
01:20:27 <oerjan> ok the ü is surely wrong, not sure about the ä
01:21:03 <int-e> GET /search?hl=en&q=%C3%83%C2%BCml%C3%83%C2%A4ute HTTP/1.1
01:21:09 <int-e> that looks doubly encoded
01:22:31 <oerjan> . o O ( is there a URL quine )
01:23:07 <oerjan> i suspect the encoding is decreasing in size
01:23:07 <int-e> I think you have some defining to do.
01:23:39 <int-e> there are plenty of trivial quines in there... just avoid all the characters that need to be encoded.
01:23:57 <oerjan> well, just apply PPCG rules
01:24:12 <oerjan> some character must encode something other than itself
01:24:15 <int-e> that would require me to know them
01:24:33 <oerjan> (and also itself, iirc.)
01:24:49 <oerjan> also it mustn't read its own code, which i don't think is a problem here.
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01:25:43 <int-e> anyway, I'll try to remember... I want to try getting lambdabot to work with ghc-8.4.1 anyway
01:26:05 <oerjan> have they got <> into Prelude yet?
01:26:22 <int-e> and Semigroup is a superclass of Monoid
01:26:29 <int-e> both are annoying :P
01:27:05 <ais523> oerjan: I don't believe a URL can encode something of the same length as itself, other than itself
01:27:15 <ais523> it's a strictly size-expanding encoding, isn't it?
01:27:21 <oerjan> (i didn't not expect that.)
01:27:23 <int-e> but the real trouble will be with hint and the ghc API. (I have a hacked version that compiles but fails to actually evaluate)
01:28:51 <ais523> hmm, that sizecoding competition is bizarre, it insists on CRLF newline conversion
01:29:21 <int-e> Well it did target DOS.
01:30:23 <int-e> But existing brainfuck programs would rely on ++++++++++. to skip to the start of the next line... hence the requirement.
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01:31:28 <int-e> 16 bit and -1 for EOF may be more debatable choices.
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01:36:44 <ais523> 16 bit is generally a good choice for esolang tapes in .COM files
01:39:33 <int-e> But 8 bits would perhaps have been easier.
01:40:27 <int-e> Though as far as I can see at a glance, it would save just 2, maybe 3 bytes.
01:41:00 <int-e> The CR/LF handling is closer to 13 bytes.
01:42:27 <int-e> (and kind of broken in my entry... printing 13 will print CR/LF and change the cell to 10. I suspect the rules allowed that :-P)
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01:49:58 <zzo38> If you define its own segment for the tape then it can use the entire area, otherwise the same segment will be used also for the interpreter and the program
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01:53:30 <int-e> zzo38: it's all going into a single segment... the competition rules limited the program size to 10k characters, and the tape to 10k 16 bit cells.
01:54:20 <zzo38> Yes, then it can fit
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02:29:39 <zzo38> A 10k brainfuck program with 10k 16-bit cells could easily be converted to TAVERN; much larger programs might use the ROM extension to store the program and then interpret it, but that may be very slow especially if it needs to bankswitch. A more sophisticated compiler might try to look for strings and compile those separately, in which case you might not need the extra ROM extension.
02:30:26 <zzo38> (Compiling brainfuck to Glulx should also be not too difficult, I suppose)
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04:12:35 <singingbanana> I'm going to say: Happy Easter(In UK) and Happy April Fools Day/ International Joke Languages/Esolang creation day.
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05:48:58 <imode1> was that james grime?!
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06:15:48 <wob_jonas> , where do I put an idea for a joke presentation of a serious language? Does that go into "Partially Silly Ideas"?
06:20:05 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54652&oldid=54093 * B jonas * (+507) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */
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07:34:42 <esowiki> [[ZTOALC L]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54653&oldid=54648 * Plokmijnuhby * (-4) /* Truth-machine */
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15:50:51 <esowiki> [[Turing number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54654&oldid=54649 * Enoua5 * (+3) Typo fix
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18:01:43 <esowiki> [[Alfie]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54655 * Singingbanana * (+63) Created page with "Alfie is a esolang based on presumptions. It is in development."
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18:13:16 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * 1024x2 * New user account
18:14:58 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54656&oldid=54518 * 1024x2 * (+155)
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21:54:32 <orby> Hello all. Is anyone aware of a language in the wiki that is based on Wang tiles? I was thinking of writing up an idea I had but if there are any that already exist I don't want to create something that is redundant.
21:56:05 <zzo38> I don't know of one (although you try try the search function).
21:56:15 <zzo38> I want to see what you can make up, if you can
21:57:02 <ais523> orby: But Is It Art? is similar but not the same
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21:58:35 <orby> zzo38: Yeah, I searched and didn't come up with any hits. "Domino" sounds like it could be related, but the page is unclear.
21:58:45 <orby> ais523: Thanks, I'll take a look.
22:00:12 <orby> I came up with a way to simulate rule 110 with wang tiles last night and thought a system which contained it would allow for a nice proof of tc
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22:04:58 <zzo38> Do they have composition tournaments for Magic: the Puzzling like they do have for chess?
22:06:42 <rain1> wang tiles are already turing complete though?
22:07:04 <zzo38> Yes, they are, but I suppose, it is another way to do it now
22:08:12 <orby> Yeah, wang tiles have been known to be turing complete for some time. I think wang himself established that in the 60's.
22:08:16 <ais523> are Wang tiles TC even if they all have the same dimensions?
22:08:42 <orby> what do you mean by having the same dimensions?
22:09:15 <ais523> like, they're all 20×10 rectangles, for example
22:09:37 <orby> my understanding is that usually they're all squares
22:09:43 <orby> of the same size
22:09:46 <rain1> they have to be carefully chosen
22:09:51 <zzo38> Aren't Wang tiles normally all square same size?
22:10:00 <zzo38> Only each edge has a colour and the touching edges are required to match.
22:10:06 <rain1> but anyway, my point was - it's already an esolang
22:10:17 <rain1> unless you're thinking of adding IO to it or something
22:10:29 <orby> rain1: what is it called?
22:10:39 <zzo38> Adding a article into esolang wiki would help though anyways
22:10:45 <orby> I didn't see it in the wiki
22:11:57 <orby> I mean, I get your point that the concept of a wang tile has an interpretation that's tc, but I thought it would be neat to create a language that was more constrained than just general wang tiles that still retained tc
22:12:25 <rain1> how would you add IO to wang tiles
22:12:32 <orby> also an interesting question
22:12:38 <ais523> the same way as in BIIA?, perhaps?
22:13:13 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art?
22:13:32 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_ArtF
22:13:38 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art%F
22:13:43 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art%%F
22:13:57 <ais523> apparently % then 3 is not a character combination I can send via this IRC client
22:14:44 <ais523> because % is an escape character for the client
22:15:03 <ais523> and typing a string of % signs followed by 3 seems to discard the 3 regardless of how many % signs there are
22:15:19 <zzo38> Use a different client or change the setting or modify the client?
22:17:16 <orby> my initial thought was to have a tape where each cell is occupied by a wang tile with the usual east west color constraint. each successive cell would be constrained on the south - north colors of the current and next step, respectively. the way turing machines are typically simulated with wang tiles.
22:18:03 <orby> instead of writing a full on 2d tiler, the interpreter would just run a line at a time and the programmer would be responsible for preventing nondeterminism
22:18:44 <orby> pointless or interesting?
22:19:04 <zzo38> I don't know; make it up and see
22:19:22 <orby> that's always my inclination, but I'm open to criticism :)
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22:54:09 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Orby * uploaded "[[File:Tile 230.png]]"
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23:14:30 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Orby * uploaded "[[File:Rule 110 tiles.png]]"
23:17:45 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Orby * uploaded "[[File:Rule 110 simulation.png]]"
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23:31:00 <wob_jonas> ais523: no percent signs: https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?curid=11226
23:31:32 <ais523> yes, that works, but it's not very memorable
23:31:51 <wob_jonas> yes, ideally you should fix your environment so you can enter any url
23:32:07 <wob_jonas> because some other webpages might not have such alternatives
23:32:16 <ais523> well I can in my browser
23:34:37 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * CrazyM4n * moved [[User:CrazyM4n]] to [[User:Aearnus]]: Change of name
23:35:37 <ais523> that doesn't actually work
23:35:41 <ais523> I'm not quite sure how to handle the attempt
23:37:10 <wob_jonas> he tried to rename himself, but only renamed his userpage?
23:37:24 <esowiki> [[User talk:CrazyM4n]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54662 * Ais523 * (+412) about the attempted name change
23:37:41 <wob_jonas> let me check https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=renameuser
23:38:34 <wob_jonas> oh this is so easy! I don't have to check a union of the user foo and global user foo logs to find user foo events. convenience of a small wiki.
23:39:55 <wob_jonas> on the Mediawiki wikis, some old history of user privilages seems to be impossible to query now
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23:40:35 <wob_jonas> I don't quite recall the details, but I wanted to check if someone was part of a privilaged usergroup many years ago, and even together with multiple logs I couldn't do it
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23:41:33 <wob_jonas> I think it was the group for otrs volunteers
23:41:46 <Aearnus> hey ais523! it's been a long time since I've been here haha
23:42:06 <Aearnus> I saw the message and I figured it'd just be easier to pop into the IRC
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23:42:47 <ais523> I figured out the where the user renaming tool is, but am not sure what our requirements are for using it
23:42:58 <Aearnus> it's cool, i don't have anything I need to keep
23:43:01 <ais523> the thing's quite slow and heavy-weight so we can't use it all that often, not that we get many requests
23:43:13 <Aearnus> do I need to delete the User: page before I delete the account?
23:43:21 <wob_jonas> Aearnus: so you just create a new user?
23:43:24 <ais523> you can't delete accounts
23:43:27 <arhellais> ##llamas on irc.freenode.net is offering a 2 for 1 fried chicken nigger special. JOIN ##LLAMAS FOR MORE INFORMATION!! ASK FOR LETTY FOR DETAILS!!
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23:43:38 <arhellais> prooftechnique myname erdic Deewiant dingbat Taneb sdhand aloril zemhill_ hakatashi1 j-bot staffehn FreeFull APic paul2520 Melvar newsham_ contrapumpkin shikhin Bowserinator Hoolootwo ocharles_ pikhq_ fungot` sparr Yurume_______ quintopia moony Slereah shachaf clog rodgort \oren\_ digitalcold
23:43:38 <fungot`> arhellais: denote final continuation." hehe. :d :p
23:43:39 -!- ais523 has kicked arhellais I don't have a better default kick reason, but if you're being kicked, you should know why.
23:43:47 <esowiki> [[Hao]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54663 * Orby * (+2219) Submitting initial Hao page
23:43:55 <ais523> same spambot was doing that on QuakeNET
23:43:58 <ais523> (or another spambot copying it)
23:44:01 <moony> ##llamas is my favorite channel :C
23:44:09 <moony> it was a good chat channel
23:44:12 <wob_jonas> Aearnus: no, I'd say keep it as a redirect to the new userpage
23:44:17 <ais523> moony: it's getting DOSed, I believe
23:44:22 <ais523> by spambots trying to get people to join
23:44:23 <wob_jonas> so that people can know who the old username refers to
23:44:25 <orby> Is anything particularly unclear about what I just wrote up?
23:44:26 <ais523> as a reminder, don't click on spambot links
23:44:52 <oerjan> someone requested a reset of my password from sv.wikipedia.org :P
23:45:37 <Sgeo> I don't think spambots can actually know why they're kicked, or much of anything.
23:45:50 <wob_jonas> oerjan: so? ignore that. it's an unprivilaged operation to request a password reset.
23:46:02 <wob_jonas> it happens all the time to people everywhere on sites that offer password resets
23:46:06 -!- jrabe has joined.
23:46:20 <wob_jonas> unless it doses you out of real password resets or logins, ignore it
23:46:23 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aearnus * New user account
23:47:22 <ais523> (come to think of it, most people can't delete user pages either, but we at least delete those on request; accounts can't be deleted at all because the server needs to track their edits and the like)
23:47:31 <ais523> we can vanish accounts if necessary to anonymise all their contributions
23:48:14 <Aearnus> I decided to log back on today bc I've been working on this https://github.com/aearnus/charm
23:48:38 <oerjan> wob_jonas: it hasn't happened to me before.
23:49:55 <oerjan> unrelatedly, i got this great idea for a new unicode character: INVISIBLE SARCASM TAG
23:50:02 <zzo38> On Wikipedia you can avoid to enter your email address, that way a password reset cannot be requested
23:50:48 <ais523> wouldn't it be more useful if it were visible?
23:50:49 <oerjan> sadly, font designers would probably sabotage it by making it visible.
23:51:09 <oerjan> ais523: no, the point is to prove you were sarcastic without ruining the style.
23:51:32 <oerjan> you can have a visible one too if you like, i guess.
23:51:40 <ais523> I guess you could use ⦞
23:51:42 <Aearnus> the canonical implementation would probably end up being the crying while laughing face :/
23:51:47 <ais523> but it's not very visible at small sizes
23:52:11 <lambdabot> http://www.i18nqa.com/debug/utf8-debug.html
23:52:15 <moony> Gregor, what'd you do to hackego. pls reviv
23:52:34 <oerjan> moony: actually Gregor is the best at this point
23:52:51 <wob_jonas> oerjan: http://unicode.scarfboy.com/?s=%E2%A6%9E
23:52:52 <moony> where's fizzie btw
23:52:54 <oerjan> i'm sure fizzie has already done everything he can, since it's been gone for a while.
23:52:56 <moony> haven't seen them in a while
23:53:19 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, he reported back about HackEgo
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23:54:45 <oerjan> moony: fizzie can do anything _on_ the server, but cannot actually control the isp's web(?) interface for fixing things.
23:55:00 <oerjan> only Gregor has access to that.
23:55:02 <int-e> CaC is just proving that things can always get worse.
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23:56:40 <ais523> the name is "ANGLE WITH S INSIDE", fwiw
23:56:43 <fizzie> Yes, I haven't even seen the CaC web control panel, I'm just assuming they have one.
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23:57:20 <wob_jonas> I assume it doesn't have a magical "fix the server" button for these cases though
00:01:07 <fizzie> I think that might be the reboot switch.
00:06:01 <ais523> fizzie: btw, opinion on Hq9++fan? they've gone out of their way to antagonise the other active admins
00:06:11 <ais523> so you're the only unbiased admin left to ask
00:07:52 <wob_jonas> fizzie: Hq9++fan is fixing double spacing after sentence end to single spacing
00:08:27 <ais523> their main change seems to removing all the <sup> and <sub> tags from the wiki
00:08:30 <wob_jonas> ais523: sure, but we've reverted most of the rest, except in that brainfuck page
00:08:31 <ais523> and edit-warring to get rid of them
00:09:24 <ais523> I blocked them for 3RR after they reverted four different people on the same page
00:11:58 <zzo38> I also wanted abuse filter 10 to be altered to look at the history, but apparently the MediaWiki abuse filter codes can't look at the history.
00:12:16 <ais523> right, it'd be too much of a performance drain
00:12:46 <wob_jonas> you'd have to do that from an external async bot
00:12:52 <ais523> fizzie: another thing Hq9++fan was doing was placing around a megabyte of whitespace into pages, e.g. the user talk pages of people they didn't like
00:13:13 <wob_jonas> what? I thought he did that only on his own userpage
00:13:14 <fizzie> I don't have an informed opinion, I've mostly been away. I just saw that really weird thing about a lot of spaces on the user page.
00:13:14 <ais523> I went and did an old-fashioned revision delete on those so that it wouldn't spam the wiki backups
00:13:18 <ais523> wob_jonas: that was for testing
00:13:26 <ais523> trying to see how many were allowed
00:13:30 <ais523> then he put them on other people's pages
00:13:37 <fizzie> That sounds like plain vandalism, though.
00:13:40 <wob_jonas> so he did get to do it elsewhere, I just never saw it because you censored it so quickly?
00:14:47 <ais523> wob_jonas: on ZM's user talk page
00:14:58 <ais523> but in just one edit, rather than in about 20 like on Hq9++fan's own
00:15:01 <wob_jonas> oh! so that's why that was in the delete log
00:15:35 <wob_jonas> ah yes, you evne mentioned it in the delete reason
00:17:35 <wob_jonas> so that's why he transcluded {{User talk:ZM}} into your page
00:18:07 <ais523> that, and also claiming that the transclusion was a warning as well so that I wasn't allowed to delete it
00:18:15 <ais523> there's a substed/copied version on my user talk page atm
00:22:41 * oerjan doesn't feel that biased :(
00:22:46 <esowiki> [[Hao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54664&oldid=54663 * Orby * (+37) /* Tiles */
00:23:47 <oerjan> also, i assume if he manages to insult all of us somehow (unlikely given how little fizzie does), we can still make an unanimous decision.
00:24:25 <oerjan> or we could ask Keymaker :P
00:24:27 <esowiki> [[Hao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54665&oldid=54664 * Orby * (-2) /* Tiles */
00:24:28 <FireFly> izabera: it's handy, I can't go back to non-colourised hexdumps now, heh
00:24:37 <FireFly> I should put the vim syntax file I have in that repo too, maybe
00:24:53 * ais523 vaguely wonders why replacing an emdash in a range with an endash would cause someone to be drunk
00:24:57 <FireFly> izabera: idly curious where you came across it though
00:25:28 <oerjan> ais523: maybe it looks identical to a hyphen in his font
00:26:20 <fizzie> Okay, I reviewed some of the "User contributions" page to have a little more informed opinion. I agree that a lot of it is very disruptive, and even the more reasonable edits (like adding Category:Turing complete to Category:Turing tarpits pages) are pretty arguable.
00:27:03 <wob_jonas> ais523: it doesn't *cause* them to be drunk, it's a sign that they were already drunkk
00:27:26 <oerjan> . o O ( like that doulbe kk )
00:28:00 <oerjan> . o O ( i saw my own typo but considered it hypocritical to fix it )
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00:28:36 * oerjan hasn't drunk alcohol since December, he swears
00:29:33 <wob_jonas> oerjan: were you involved in relativistic acceleration or strange timezones so that December was a few days ago from your perspective?
00:29:54 <FireFly> izabera: you might also enjoy pixd, although I'd say hexd is waaay more practical/useful personally
00:30:00 <FireFly> people seemed to like pixd though
00:30:16 <FireFly> https://github.com/FireyFly/pixd
00:30:22 <FireFly> like hexd but with more blocks and less hex
00:30:37 <ais523> I haven't drunk alcohol for years
00:30:39 <wob_jonas> or were you perhaps drunk with power?
00:30:51 <uplime> i just killed a bottle of crown royal on thursday
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00:31:13 <FireFly> I haven't drunk alcohol in 25 years!* (* trace amounts of alcohol exempt)
00:31:34 <Aearnus> hey, how do you do code formatting on the wiki?
00:31:40 <uplime> ive been 10 years sober
00:31:44 <ais523> Aearnus: there are three ways:
00:31:45 <uplime> not like in a row or anything
00:31:51 <ais523> a) <code></code>, used for inline code
00:31:52 <wob_jonas> I'm quite sure I've drunk alcohol in January, because it's a tradition to drink the champange at New Year's day after the anthem after midnight
00:32:09 <ais523> b) starting each line with a leading space, used for multiline code that otherwise obeys wikimarkup rules
00:32:20 <ais523> c) <pre></pre>, used for multiline code which should be shown literally
00:32:50 <esowiki> [[Hao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54666&oldid=54665 * Orby * (+11)
00:32:50 <ais523> wob_jonas: I was in Hungary for new years once
00:32:54 <izabera> FireFly: is that just like adding a small header and interpreting some file as a pbm picture?
00:32:57 <wob_jonas> indenting with space still disables a few forms of wiki markup though, and mostly the easiest ones
00:32:58 <ais523> so got to listen to all the hungarians present singing the anthem
00:33:19 <wob_jonas> ais523: I actually wasn't in Hungary this time. for the very first time, we spent Christmas to New Year at my brothers' in Sweden.
00:33:21 <ais523> note that MediaWiki uses one leading space (unlike Markdown, which uses four)
00:33:47 <wob_jonas> but with the magic of the internet, I still got to watch the anthem and the speech of the president of the republic on TV
00:34:05 * FireFly digs up the palette it uses
00:34:46 <FireFly> izabera: https://twitter.com/FireyFly/status/867017529042100224 <- it maps each byte to a colour according to this table
00:34:51 <wob_jonas> singing the anthem is optional by the way, the important tradition is to listen to it while standing and holding the champagne glasses so you can say cheers to everyone around with it and then drink right after it ends
00:35:14 <FireFly> the idea is that the hue corresponds to the high nibble, and the value to the low nibble... and the hue range was tweaked a bit to make different "interesting" ranges fall into different colours
00:35:21 <FireFly> so that e.g. printable ASCII stands out
00:35:38 <FireFly> also, making null bytes black, etc
00:36:07 <FireFly> there's some other examples in that therad too
00:36:35 <FireFly> Well... pixd does allow you to define your own colour map, but that's the default/hardcoded one
00:36:53 <esowiki> [[User talk:CrazyM4n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54667&oldid=54662 * Fizzie * (+521) /* Attempted name change */ Current (de-facto) policy.
00:37:17 <FireFly> Honestly, I find it more useful to just use a coloured hexdump most of the time
00:37:30 <FireFly> for picking out patterns and stuff
00:37:34 <FireFly> I guess it depends on the purpose
00:37:44 <FireFly> I mostly hexdump binary files when reversing file formats
00:38:00 <Aearnus> have you packaged it for apt or anything of the sort?
00:38:41 <izabera> it's pretty but how is it useful?
00:38:51 <Aearnus> getting a quick overview of filetypes
00:39:45 <FireFly> that was the idea when trying it out, yeah
00:40:05 <FireFly> to see if it'd be useful for finding patterns/similarities in formats
00:40:58 <FireFly> Aearnus: I've packaged it for NixOS, but I think pixd got packaged in some other distros too..
00:41:18 <FireFly> but mstly liek pentesting/security ones
00:41:22 <Aearnus> either way i've installed it. cool stuff.
00:44:57 <FireFly> It's also definitely useful for uncompressed indexed bitmaps, but that's ... quite an edgecase I guess :P
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00:53:56 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54668&oldid=54656 * Aearnus * (+217) Added Aearnus
00:55:00 <esowiki> [[Charm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54669 * Aearnus * (+4632) Creation of the Charm page for the Charm (eso)lang
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01:00:58 <wob_jonas> Aearnus: on which continent are you? does this still count as an april fool announcement?
01:12:37 <Aearnus> wob_jonas: it's still april fool's here haha
01:13:01 <Aearnus> but no i didn't have anything good planned for april fool's day sadly :(
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01:17:46 <Aearnus> & I also can't tell if that was a compliment or an insult
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01:24:31 <Aearnus> I'd actually really appreciate feedback on Charm -- it's the largest project that I've worked on to date
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01:47:53 <esowiki> [[Hao]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54670&oldid=54666 * Orby * (+118) /* Tiles */
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01:50:51 <esowiki> [[Hao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54671&oldid=54670 * Orby * (-8)
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01:52:39 <wob_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20180401.html
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02:36:13 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54672&oldid=53552 * LyricLy * (+169)
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03:05:00 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54673&oldid=54672 * Oerjan * (-52) Why? It works just fine!
03:12:46 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54674&oldid=54673 * LyricLy * (+0)
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03:29:27 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54675&oldid=54674 * LyricLy * (+0)
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04:13:45 <zzo38> Triangular Wang tiles are also Turing complete. You can split the squares into triangles, although additional colours may be required.
04:53:09 <FreeFull> What shapes are not turing complete?
04:58:02 <izabera> penises don't look very turing complete
04:58:27 <zzo38> You need to choose a shape that can be tiled.
04:59:05 <izabera> well it's not my fault if your penis can't be tiled
05:00:02 <zzo38> One dimension shapes will not make it Turing complete.
05:08:37 <oerjan> izabera: have you looked at cockfuck hth
05:08:56 <esowiki> [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54676&oldid=54642 * Hq9++fan * (-334) undo bot
05:09:53 <esowiki> [[Malbolge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54677&oldid=54644 * Hq9++fan * (-10) only a dumb person would call that a fix
05:10:20 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54678&oldid=54645 * Hq9++fan * (-27) no
05:10:33 <esowiki> [[Talk:Apple3.14]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54679&oldid=54646 * Hq9++fan * (-11) nope...
05:10:34 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:Hq9++fan]] with an expiration time of 3 days (account creation disabled): Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages: Being really annoying and not taking a hint.
05:11:08 <oerjan> sometimes you _need_ a little bias.
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05:16:03 <esowiki> [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54680&oldid=54676 * Oerjan * (+334) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:B jonas|B jonas]]
05:16:28 <esowiki> [[Malbolge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54681&oldid=54677 * Oerjan * (+10) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Zzo38|Zzo38]]
05:16:58 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54682&oldid=54678 * Oerjan * (+27) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:B jonas|B jonas]]
05:17:13 <esowiki> [[Talk:Apple3.14]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54683&oldid=54679 * Oerjan * (+11) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:B jonas|B jonas]]
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07:32:49 <fungot`> wob_jonas: ( i'm afraid i'm a little displeased with up-from and a negative list l is converted to a ieee decimal representation ( the nearest possible number such that blah blah blah blah
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08:00:29 <j-bot> wob_jonas: jlbe xx fe k u qn m wf r c tkdv
08:01:31 <wob_jonas> @djinn jlbe xx fe k u qn m wf r c tkdv
08:01:43 <wob_jonas> @pl jlbe xx fe k u qn m wf r c tkdv
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12:46:32 <zemhill_> web.dsadsa: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47
12:47:37 <fizzie> Hmm. There's some odd non-bfjousty characters in that program.
12:48:15 <fizzie> Also the first command is "<", which seems counterproductive.
13:05:46 <esowiki> [[Alfie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54684&oldid=54655 * Singingbanana * (+853)
13:06:33 <esowiki> [[Alfie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54685&oldid=54684 * Singingbanana * (+2)
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17:37:02 <int-e> yay for caches that store irretrievable data
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21:47:53 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54686&oldid=54675 * LyricLy * (-13) fix link
21:48:32 <esowiki> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54687&oldid=54686 * LyricLy * (+8)
21:55:49 <moony> aww. Hackego is still dead
21:55:53 * moony puts down the botsnacks
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21:58:04 * boily botsnacks mhelloony
21:58:22 <int-e> now I'm worried about poisonous botsnacks
21:58:53 <fizzie> int-e: I guess the cache is better than nothing at all?
21:59:10 <int-e> fizzie: it was fine until somebody flushed it!
22:00:44 <int-e> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/14994 has some details
22:01:39 <int-e> (And this may mean that I won't update lambdabot (which needs mueval -> hint -> the ghc API) to ghc-8.4.1, though I still haven't made up my mind about that.)
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00:15:59 <oerjan> int-e: i posted an improved Haskell quine on PPCG that uses <>, and now I'm getting a suggestion to use <> on another answer. This GHC change might open a bit of a floodgate...
00:16:14 <oerjan> (also the same person improved my quine)
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00:28:15 <wob_jonas> oerjan: strange. doubly strange, both because of the strange Semigroup instance used, and because I thought the plan was to get the (++) generalized to Monoid into the Prelude instead of a (<>)
00:32:18 <wob_jonas> how do I ask what fixity an operator is?
00:33:59 <lambdabot> Source not found. You untyped fool!
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01:01:06 <lambdabot> The operator ‘<>’ [infixr 6] of a section
01:01:06 <lambdabot> must have lower precedence than that of the operand,
01:02:29 <wob_jonas> oerjan: thanks. the guys on #haskell already gave two other possibilities
01:02:32 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i think the Monoid IO instance is way too new for lambdabot's @src
01:03:04 <wob_jonas> and I found the source of the instances too with their help
01:04:25 <oerjan> i'm sure someone suggested generalizing ++ , but there were people disagreeing
01:04:56 <oerjan> <> has been in Data.Monoid for a while, as a synonym of mappend.
01:05:40 <oerjan> but *also* in Data.Semigroup with a conflicting type, something which only got resolved now (I assume they resolved it.)
01:06:21 <oerjan> (Data.Semigroup got moved from a separate package to base only after <> had already been added to Data.Monoid.)
01:06:38 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, they did the same incompatible maneouver as with Applicative: the Monoid class now requires the Semigroup class, and both are in Prelude and (<>) is in Prelude too
01:07:18 <wob_jonas> the problem was similar: Monad was in core libraries before Applicative, and Monoid was in core libraries before Semigroup
01:07:32 <oerjan> in stage four they're supposed to make mappend a synonym of (<>), it's still technically a method of Monoid.
01:07:38 <wob_jonas> so there was some duplication of functionality, which now they eliminated, but everyone has to rewrite their Monad and Monoid instances
01:08:51 <oerjan> it's going in four stages because although this breaks backwards compatibility, there's a policy on how quickly it can break, the three release policy.
01:09:27 <zzo38> Should they add a mechanism into Haskell to allow default instances to automatically be made in these cases, so that you don't have to rewrite it?
01:09:28 <oerjan> (assuming they haven't changed that, they might because now GHC has a faster schedule.)
01:10:12 <wob_jonas> I wonder what if they add so many superclasses that eventually there are core classes for which you can only define an instance if you define an infinity of other instances first
01:10:14 <oerjan> zzo38: that's been suggested lots of times but there are too many caveats
01:11:04 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i don't know about core classes, but they _did_ add the `UndecidableSuperClass` extension, which can do such things.
01:11:50 * oerjan is still in markdown mode
01:14:08 <oerjan> zzo38: in fact for many years i think the spirit was "we'll make Applicative a superclass of Monad, but we'll need a system for automatic defaults first". but they eventually gave up waiting for that, and implemented it in a backwards incompatible way insted.
01:15:36 <oerjan> i think edward kmett wrote a post somewhere explaining some of the difficulties, but i've forgot.
01:16:22 <oerjan> oh, one thing i remember is that it really doesn't work with multiparameter typeclasses.
01:17:13 <zzo38> I also think though that "join" should be part of the Monad class, so that you do not need to define both >>= and join, either one will do (but you need to define the Functor instance too if you aren't defining >>=)
01:18:23 <zzo38> I also have seen implementations of Alternative IO that I don't like. A better way can be that: x <|> y is try y if x is error, but the error is allowed to include the indicator at the beginning or end optionally to inherit the error message from x. This not only makes it into a proper monoid, but also can be useful in case you want to report both errors.
01:21:06 <zzo38> oerjan: I do not see how that is a problem (although there may be problems, that doesn't seem to be one of them), since it doesn't need to work with multiparameter typeclasses.
01:28:25 <oerjan> zzo38: join was supposed to be added to the Monad class, but that broke because of the role inference system. i think i saw some statement recently that the new QuantifiedConstraints extension may be able to fix that.
01:29:13 <zzo38> O, then OK, they can see if that extension does fix that. But, what is that extension?
01:29:48 <oerjan> QC will allow constraints like (forall a. Monoid (F a))
01:30:33 <oerjan> it's not released yet, but supposedly most of the code is written
01:31:50 <zzo38> How will that help this problem though?
01:32:45 <oerjan> zzo38: i don't know, i only saw statement in a header and didn't actually read the post.
01:33:17 <oerjan> but i might guess it could allow role inference to use such constraints
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01:35:14 <oerjan> ok here https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/8257mz/how_quantifiedconstraints_can_let_us_put_join/
01:36:23 <oerjan> anything that makes edward kmett super-happy has to be good
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01:52:38 <zzo38> OK, now I can see.
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03:10:45 <zzo38> oerjan: How often are you using markdown anyways?
03:15:12 <zzo38> I thought of something to make up Magic: the Gathering card: When ~ is faced up, counter target facedown spell.
03:15:26 <zzo38> (I don't know if they already have that or not)
03:16:30 <alercah> http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108811
03:16:37 <alercah> err wait that's the wrong one
03:17:18 <alercah> http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=393874
03:18:22 <zzo38> That one is counter any spell
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03:34:25 <zzo38> I think that rule 400.11 would make more sense if it says "all objects" instead of "all cards", it look like to me.
03:36:45 <zzo38> 400.11. Some effects instruct a player to do something to a zone (such as "Shuffle your hand into your library"). That action is performed on all cards in that zone.
03:38:41 <alercah> ah no that is intended only for cards
03:40:01 <zzo38> Yes it is, although it says "your hand", which contains only cards anyways. (Even if it somehow did contain other objects, they will be gone by that time.)
03:40:04 <alercah> even though it's not much of a problem if you do, the game tries to avoid shuffling non-cards into libraries where it can
03:41:28 <zzo38> One card (Warp World) does shuffle tokens into the library. But, as you say it isn't a problem; the tokens once there don't do anything, so there is no need to physically shuffle the tokens.
03:44:24 <oerjan> zzo38: mostly i use markdown on PPCG, and i had just edited one of my posts
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03:57:35 <zzo38> Do you think sixteen thousand classes is enough for Free Hero Mesh, or should there be twice as much?
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04:10:53 <zzo38> I think being able to define up to sixteen thousand different kind of pieces in a puzzle game should be more than sufficient; most games have less than one hundred, and converted puzzle sets aren't going to have more than 512 classes anyways.
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06:29:46 <zzo38> Some random guy (not the police or king or guard or whatever) won't let ugly monsters on the carriage, even though he does not intend to enter the carriage himself anyways.
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07:14:25 <izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentaigana
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10:40:12 <boily> the HackEgo is still dead :(
10:40:36 <fungot`> boily: that one's less useful, but a bit shorter :) i don't know how
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10:48:06 <izabera> is anyone attending ACCU 2018?
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13:24:03 <wob_jonas> zzo38: doesn't matter. while you can have a token in your graveyard or library or hand, and very rarely it could even matter, it definitely can't move to another zone from there because of 110.5g
13:24:44 <wob_jonas> "I think being able to define up to sixteen thousand different kind of pieces in a puzzle game should be more than sufficient" => I think M:tG will eventually have more than 16000 different cards
13:32:35 <wob_jonas> If you want to define classes for some things that aren't cards, such as some abilities or tokens or card faces, then M:tG might already have more than 16000 elements in Vintage
13:32:50 <wob_jonas> In theory that is, most of them aren't actually used by players in Vintage
13:35:02 <wob_jonas> zzo38: most rules text that talks about moving objects from a graveyard or hand or library already mentions "card" in fact, the exceptions being ones that refer to the card the text is printed on, eg. cycling abilities
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15:40:53 <wob_jonas> Ever since I'm more than 30 years old, increasingly often I've come to realize in how many ways I have become what I used to despise and mock in other people. I just had another of those realizations.
15:41:17 <wob_jonas> I took a shower, and I realized I have four different kinds of soap in the bloody shower!
15:42:50 <wob_jonas> There's no excuse for this. The young me would be ashamed if he knew.
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16:38:10 <Taneb> izabera: first I've heard of it
16:39:24 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, I know you can't move a token to another zone once it is no longer in the battlefield anyways.
16:40:02 <zzo38> And, Magic: the Gathering isn't really suitable to implement in Free Hero Mesh.
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17:08:51 <int-e> . o O ( M:tG is like Nomic except that only one of the players is allowed to change the rules. :P )
17:09:58 <Taneb> Conjecture: it's possible for every (well-defined) game to be a suitably progressed Nomic
17:10:49 <int-e> Yeah but if you take Chess, the rules are much more (though not absolutely) stable over time.
17:11:17 <Taneb> (I was going off on a tangent rather than disagreeing)
17:11:45 <int-e> I think you made a valid point but that doesn't stop me from trying to discredit it :P
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17:38:19 <int-e> Ah it's odd when a week starts on Tuesday... I have not looked at yesterday's Girl Genius commic yet.
17:38:43 <int-e> Err, or non-comic.
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17:52:08 <int-e> ^8ball Will HackEgo ever be back?
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17:55:15 <int-e> . o O ( `learn portmontageousness//"Portmontageousness" describes the irresisturge to portmontulate. )
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22:28:14 <alercah> is there an official unicode spec for matching characters for text search
22:28:29 <alercah> like so that "a" matches "á", "ä", etc.
22:34:09 <boily> hellorcah. decompose characters and strip anything unascii.
22:34:22 <boily> I think it's NFKC or NFKD?
22:37:29 <alercah> that doesn't work for everything
22:37:57 <alercah> (I'm curious because of a search I encountered where you had to search "d" for eth and curious if it is standard or ont)
22:42:51 <fizzie> I don't think Unicode has any standard beyond the "K" normalization forms.
22:42:59 <fizzie> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/#normalizationLimitations discusses the topic a little.
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22:48:53 <fizzie> There's some relevant stuff in the Unicode collation algorithm http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Searching and especially http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/#Asymmetric_Search and there's also a standard algorithm for determining "visually confusable" strings for security purposes in http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr39/#Confusable_Detection
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23:53:40 <boily> bonsøœøœøœøœøœøœøirjan.
23:55:05 <shachaf> "Consider the inverse id_M^-1 : M -> M of the identity map id_M, such that"
23:55:15 <shachaf> I know what these people were getting at but that's kind of a silly thing to say.
00:07:00 <oerjan> helløøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøoøuily
00:08:02 <lambdabot> ENVA 032350Z 14015KT CAVOK 02/M06 Q0997 RMK WIND 670FT 15022KT
00:11:27 <lambdabot> CYUL 040000Z 05013KT 15SM OVC040 05/M03 A2991 RMK SC8 SLP132
00:11:55 <boily> moony: do you have a nearest airport?
00:13:05 <lambdabot> KTYR 032353Z 36012KT 10SM SCT037 19/12 A2988 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2315 RAE06 SLP113 P0000 60004 T01890122 10256 20189 51054
00:13:17 <moony> neat. i have more info than you ha ha ha ha
00:17:35 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure it's past cow temperatures here as well.
00:17:38 <lambdabot> EGLL 032350Z AUTO 14005KT 9999 NCD 08/07 Q0995 NOSIG
00:18:06 <moony> Oh, we have thunderstorms.
00:18:24 <moony> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ forget it
00:30:40 <oerjan> . o O ( why are you frying a head )
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05:45:42 <esowiki> [[Talk:Mascarpone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54688&oldid=51964 * Challenger5 * (+709)
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07:21:30 <esowiki> [[Takeover]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54689&oldid=46199 * Ais523 * (+0) /* Data storage */ typo fix
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16:30:06 <int-e> olist 1116: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
16:49:25 <shachaf> int-e: fizzie should be the one doing that.
16:49:46 <shachaf> I guess we could add lists to lambdabot but it seems inappropriate.
16:49:56 <shachaf> @@ @@ (@where weather) KOAK KJFK
16:49:59 <lambdabot> KOAK 041553Z 00000KT 10SM FEW014 SCT200 13/09 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP183 T01280094 \ KJFK 041551Z 19018KT 1/4SM R04R/3000V4000FT BR FEW000 OVC002 10/10 A2946 RMK AO2 PK WND 18026/1529 SFC VIS 2 SLP974 BR
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20:54:59 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54690&oldid=54534 * DMC * (+0) /* Commands */
20:59:00 <esowiki> [[Alphabet Stew]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54691&oldid=54340 * DMC * (+17) /* Virtual machine */
21:03:06 <esowiki> [[Alphabet Stew]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54692&oldid=54691 * DMC * (+99) /* Virtual machine */
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21:06:15 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54693&oldid=54328 * DMC * (+0) /* Enhancements to brainfuck */
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22:04:31 <fizzie> I'm still hoping it'll come back.
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01:22:51 <shachaf> with HackEgo gone my porthello ability is grossly diminished
01:24:14 <shachaf> Anyway I think I might be missing your joke.
01:24:15 <oerjan> hichaf. how does that affect it?
01:25:37 <shachaf> I'm not sure whether it's a joke or not.
01:25:57 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm incapable of replacing letters with h, so I secretly /msg HackEgo to do it for me every time.
01:33:02 <mniip> 1 ly / yr^2 ~~ 9.5 m/s^2
01:33:38 <shachaf> Oh, so you just meant the speed of light per year.
01:34:28 <shachaf> I thought it was getting at something else.
01:34:30 <mniip> although that's kind of
01:34:55 <mniip> due to relativity shenanigans
01:35:43 <shachaf> Due to relativity shenanigans freefall acceleration is exactly 0 light years per year per year.
01:37:33 <mniip> freefall "acceleration" is just a cristoffel symbol then
01:38:02 <shachaf> I guess I don't understand Christoffel symbols.
01:38:16 <shachaf> What's going on with them? They're not tensors, right?
01:38:56 <mniip> they're second derivatives of curvilinear coordinates of geodesics
01:39:12 <mniip> expressed via curvilinear coordinates themselves, and their first derivstives
01:41:13 <shachaf> But then people add them to other things and magically get tensors or something.
01:41:23 <shachaf> I guess I should read about this properly.
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11:24:55 <esowiki> [[ZTOALC L]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54694&oldid=54653 * Reinier * (-8) /* Truth-machine */
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14:28:30 <esowiki> [[Alfie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54695&oldid=54685 * Singingbanana * (+1308)
14:29:54 <fizzie> Why is there an extra ` in fungot.
14:29:55 <fungot`> fizzie: sometimes i force myself to get to power could keep up those good reasons to leave out the -f switch to set the value
14:30:06 <fizzie> That's not a good reason.
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14:30:49 <fizzie> fizzie: are you happy now?
14:31:26 <fizzie> Such a fail. :( I'm sure you can guess where I was going with that.
14:32:19 <fungot> fizzie: insert mockery here
14:36:08 <Taneb> fizzie: are you happy now?
14:45:13 <fizzie> Well, not about this particular incident in particular.
14:50:27 <int-e> fungot: do you prefer unicorns, glitter, or fairies?
14:50:27 <fungot> int-e: conjure, i mean 1337...
14:50:51 <fizzie> fungot: What's better, unicorns or Unicode?
14:50:52 <fungot> fizzie: there isn't said any size for them. :p)). the last time i checked bothug is a nice thing to do
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19:14:11 <wob_jonas> haha! in python3, the function re.escape() used to behave like perl's quotemeta function, putting a backtick before all non-alnum bytes. starting from python 3.7, it will change to put a backtick only to characters special in python regex.
19:14:23 <wob_jonas> does that sound like it will cause security problems on some online services that use that function to escape strings for purposes other than python regexen?
19:15:12 <wob_jonas> you can start typing apostrophes to every fucking form on the web to find one that uses re.escape to build an SQL query or something stupid like that
19:15:53 <int-e> how about "my password comparisons are now failing for uses that had non-alphanumeric characters in their passwords"
19:16:23 <wob_jonas> I don't think that's likely, but yeah
19:18:04 <wob_jonas> mind you, at least they interpret "regex special characters" widely, so the behavior changed for only a very few punctuation characters
19:18:18 <wob_jonas> but the ascii apostrophe is one of them
19:26:36 <int-e> unfortunately, yes, I can see this leading to security problems
19:26:59 <int-e> even though it emphatically SHOULD NOT.
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20:01:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tang891228 * New user account
20:12:51 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54696&oldid=54668 * Tang891228 * (+128) leave a message
20:13:30 <esowiki> [[Nothing]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54697&oldid=36124 * Tang891228 * (-1) typesetting
20:16:29 <esowiki> [[User:Tang891228]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54698 * Tang891228 * (+42) [[Esolang:Help#Redirecting|redirecting]]
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21:05:32 <wob_jonas> int-e: it SHOULD cause security problems actually. the old docs say "Escape all the characters in pattern except ASCII letters, numbers and '_'." It doesn't say that the function is only for escaping strings for python regex and might escape in various ways.
21:06:38 <wob_jonas> And being a well-supported core function, I'd expect it isn't buggy and might be optimized for performance, which is more than you can say for some functions, and you often want a fast string escaping function. So if I have a case when I need to escape a string and the semantics of that one is suitable, I would use it, even if it's not python regex
21:07:55 <wob_jonas> I have done so with perl's quotemeta function too.
21:08:37 <fizzie> I don't think I would, I wouldn't say it's that explicitly documented.
21:08:45 <wob_jonas> Mind you, this doesn't mean that you should use this function for escaping when that semantics is not suitable, such as for building shell commands for unix (where it escapes newlines wrong and has some other caveats), or for not using placeholders in SQL.
21:08:58 <fizzie> For one, it doesn't say how it "escapes", and if you assume it escapes as if for regular expressions, you might as well assume more.
21:09:04 <wob_jonas> fizzie: how is that statement I quoted not explicit?
21:09:36 <fizzie> I guess the examples sort of document it, but still.
21:09:42 <fizzie> (Also the parameter is called "pattern".)
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21:38:59 <int-e> carlsen is so lucky today
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23:29:12 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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23:48:21 <boily> zombie, new job, nice pay and proximity to chinese food.
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00:07:12 <lambdabot> KATL 052352Z 19003KT 10SM BKN250 17/M01 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP196 T01721011 10189 20167 55004
00:16:06 <boily> started last week!
00:16:09 <lambdabot> CYUL 060000Z 26012G18KT 15SM FEW065 FEW240 M03/M15 A3000 RMK CF1CI1 CF TR CI TR SLP163
00:19:18 <boily> backend dev for POS products, doing big data stuff ^^
00:28:33 <boily> it is corporate and I work on a mac. bletch.
00:28:54 <boily> but freen breakfast, including bagels, and quality coffee!
00:29:28 <boily> eeeeh... I think Sunday?
00:29:56 <boily> but I won't be there for the next two weekends. can we after that?
00:36:43 <quintopia> what are your thoughts on seth andrews
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00:37:37 <boily> quintopia: who is seth andrews?
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00:44:46 <boily> quintopia: after wikipédying him, I can't say I'm leaning one way or another. I need more context and history.
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01:04:37 <boily> (also, gott kvørjanld.)
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01:14:54 * oerjan is not sure we really want to encourage user pages redirecting to chinese wikipedia
01:16:04 <zzo38> Pages probably should not redirect to external pages
01:18:49 <oerjan> <boily> zombie, new job, nice pay and proximity to chinese food. <-- wait, are you no longer making the world boring
01:18:58 <oerjan> boily: see latest wiki edit
01:20:12 <boily> that is indeed the case!
01:29:11 <lambdabot> ENVA 060050Z 30015KT 6000 -SN VV012 01/M00 Q1001 RMK WIND 670FT 31022KT
01:29:17 <oerjan> it's been snowing again
01:35:12 <lambdabot> EGLL 060120Z AUTO 13009KT 9999 NCD 04/02 Q1016 NOSIG
01:35:20 <fizzie> I don't think it's going to snow any more.
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01:45:22 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * YUM YUM YUM * New user account
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02:54:40 <zzo38> Add a link if you need to, not a redirection
02:56:27 <zzo38> Redirects should only be for redirecting to another internal page, and user pages probably should not redirect at all (although subpages of user pages might redirect)
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04:41:38 <oerjan> Another day, another Girl Genius non-comic
04:41:54 <oerjan> also, that Zoing card has a typo
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05:13:36 <FreeFull> oerjan: Maybe we'll get a comic on monday
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07:31:45 <esowiki> [[Turing number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54699&oldid=54654 * Singingbanana * (+42)
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08:30:50 <esowiki> [[Alfie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54700&oldid=54695 * Singingbanana * (+1492)
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08:32:43 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54701&oldid=54591 * Singingbanana * (-19)
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08:33:09 <esowiki> [[User:Singingbanana]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54702&oldid=54701 * Singingbanana * (-1)
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08:43:31 <esowiki> [[Borsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54703&oldid=54542 * Singingbanana * (+132)
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11:00:13 <wob_jonas> fungot, do you know a superhero with weather control powers available for hire to help with outdoors photography?
11:00:13 <fungot> wob_jonas: i made some excellent wild greens gumbo yesterday, with things like libc.
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11:08:14 <fizzie> "Cooking with libc" is fungot's new book.
11:08:14 <fungot> fizzie: i had to write a function
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11:43:06 <int-e> ^8ball will HackEgo return?
11:43:14 <int-e> fungot's so optimistic
11:43:14 <fungot> int-e: i am very sorry for this silly question... but what do i gain access to all the elements ( procedure and args alike) are evaluated, right?
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13:05:16 <fizzie> int-e: I've been looking at setting up an instance on the wiki host.
13:07:01 <int-e> are we allowed to?
13:07:48 <fizzie> I think it falls within the general scope of "promoting esoteric language development", though admittedly there's a lot that's completely frivolous.
13:09:04 <fizzie> If I do it, I think I'd like to upgrade the second-level sandboxing (the thing where hackbot itself runs, outside the umlbox) from a chroot to something more modern. Been looking at systemd-nspawn, Docker and LXC.
13:11:31 <fizzie> (TBH, given that it's such a kludge almost by definition, maybe CaC is a more appropriate ecology for it to live on. Maybe I should properly ping Gregor to see if there's anything pokeable in there first.)
13:20:05 <int-e> I didn't want a ton of dependencies... so ended up with http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/mueval.c which may be a bit too low-level.
13:20:34 <int-e> (note the wonderful hardcoded uid and gid)
13:21:47 <int-e> (/sandbox is statically populated with a few read-only bind mounts)
13:23:23 <int-e> something like http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/fstab.txt
13:24:04 <int-e> anyway, docker was too big for me... and I didn't look too hard for alternatives.
13:31:21 <fizzie> I need a "real" Linux in the container (because of all those HackEgo commands), but I haven't yet decided whether that should be via read-only bind mounts from the host, or as an entirely separate installation.
13:31:54 <fizzie> (The current HackEgo chroot is the latter, a debootstrap chroot that ~never gets any upgrades done.)
13:33:52 <int-e> tricky, I think I'd like a separate installation but some way of updating it whenever the main system is updated...
13:34:40 <int-e> ...but the latter seems hard so I'd probably end up in the current situation as well :P
13:35:01 <fizzie> Making it a real (though minimal) independent system means I'd need to figure out how to get it under my usual configuration management and monitoring infrastructure, which kind of assumes there's at least sshd running inside it.
13:35:08 <fizzie> Which is of course doable but seems a little silly.
13:40:28 <fizzie> OTOH, if it's the hackbot process launched with a fs namespace that has read-only binds, it doesn't need any of that, but it would have (read-only but still) access to a lot of stuff it really has no business looking at.
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14:10:26 <int-e> yeah, the latter would really want me to have a separate installation
14:10:55 <int-e> but maybe can you make a direct-to-chroot ssh account on the outer system?
14:11:36 <int-e> some variation on http://allanfeid.com/content/creating-chroot-jail-ssh-access perhaps
14:12:17 <int-e> then you could ssh into the sandbox without actually having an sshd in the sandbox
14:28:50 <fizzie> Mm. With just the sshd_config ChrootDirectory option, it'd be running without the other namespaces. But maybe I could instead use ForceCommand to do whatever is necessary to execute the command line in the sandbox. I know at least systemd-nspawn has a "machinectl shell" and systemd-run for running commands inside.
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15:16:06 <int-e> fizzie: I was thinking that it's for maintenance, maybe the full sandboxing wouldn't be required.
15:17:10 <int-e> but I guess that means you do not get your own user namespace which may be desirable.
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16:21:54 <fizzie> int-e: On the plus side, it means you wouldn't need to poke a hole for apt-get networking in the sandbox, so maybe it'd be fine.
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17:41:52 <izabera> https://www.chosenbun.com/
17:50:18 <Taneb> Ooh, that's nearby
17:50:45 <Taneb> Might try that tonight
17:50:56 <int-e> fizzie: of course you could have two sandbox setups ... I mean while we're thinking about potentially overengineering everything.
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18:24:10 <Taneb> izabera: I have ordered a Chosen Bun
18:40:32 <izabera> why didn't you just go there
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18:41:25 <Taneb> I've ran out of data on my phone, don't have internet at home, and I'm getting some with one of my workmates
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18:49:07 <izabera> did you run out of feet as well?
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18:58:43 <int-e> I can imagine outrunning your feet (painful aftermath), but how does one run out of feet...
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19:16:39 <fizzie> Hmm, there's one in Fulham as well.
19:21:29 <fizzie> I don't appreciate this website changing the cursor so that it doesn't indicate what's clickable and what's not.
19:28:18 <zzo38> Add your own CSS codes if needed. I use the Stylish extension to add my own CSS codes to what is already there. (And, less often, I also use GreaseMonkey to add additional JavaScript codes too)
19:32:46 <zzo38> That is what I have always done to deal with these kind of problems
19:33:40 <wob_jonas> int-e: if you injure one feet, you can do certain movements by using the other feet and carefully protecting the injured feet. but you can also injure both feet, at which point you've ran out of feet.
19:36:01 <int-e> Hmm is it "one feet, two feet, red feet, blue feet" now?
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21:38:35 <zzo38> I have now disconnected the old hard drive in my computer (to save power)
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22:19:51 <zzo38> I have one idea of new Magic: the Gathering card which is: "You may cast target permanent."
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22:46:32 <MDude> gopher://vernunftzentrum.de/0/ckeen/ciy-manifesto.txt
22:54:51 <zzo38> That is true, and often I do code it by myself. Although the other two things are also possible, if the change is simple enough and/or other suitable software exists. Even if you do write it by yourself sometime it help to take a small pieces from other program codes too, although sometimes that is unnecessary or it just work better to do by yourself.
22:55:31 <zzo38> If each program does one thing well, then is less likely that the goal will be diverged. It also makes it simpler in case you wish to use part of their codes in your own program.
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00:13:55 <fizzie> int-e: Played around with some of this stuff. Setting up a systemd-nspawn container was pretty neat, but turns out it's not that simple to run a command inside the active container with stdin/stdout outside it. "systemd-run --quiet --pty --wait --machine=X ..." almost manages, but the PTY confuses some bit along the way. There's a promising "--pipe" flag in later versions, but not in the Debian stretch
00:14:04 <fizzie> (My config push thing is based on bundling the data and metadata into a standalone Python script that carefully drops files in place if there's no conflicts, and then running "python3 -" over SSH to execute that script.)
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00:28:51 <fizzie> (Raw "systemd-nspawn" can run a command in the container fine, the problem is finding what would run something in the context of an already-spawned thing.)
00:30:26 <fizzie> Looks like there's a lower-level tool called "nsenter" from util-linux that might work.
00:34:20 <zzo38> I have read about now they have the possibility to add the MOR and MXOR commands from MMIX into 64-bit WebAssembly. I think it is good; there is a lot of use of a MOR command, including endianness conversion.
00:53:50 <fizzie> MoonyTheDwarf: I'm considering setting up an instance on the current wiki host.
01:00:04 <fizzie> My weekly copy is current up to March 16, so hopefully it's not missing too much.
01:00:07 <fizzie> (Also that text is black-on-black for me.)
01:02:35 <oerjan> MoonyTheDwarf: that is completely unreadable in my terminal tdnh i had to copy and paste it to see it
01:04:31 <zzo38> On my computer it is visible
01:11:23 <shachaf> That's probably because your computer uses 120V, not 220V like oerjan's.
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01:43:27 <oerjan> shachaf: your explanation has potential
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04:59:57 <imode> why do we have stack machines instead of queue machines.
05:06:55 <zzo38> So that you can call functions to use the data sharing on the same stack.
05:07:25 <imode> but you need two stacks to be turing complete.
05:07:53 <imode> zero/one/infinity rule, dude. you only need one queue. :P
05:16:33 <zzo38> Yes, although Forth has two stacks (some implementations add additional stacks for floating point and so on)
05:35:14 <zzo38> (Also, many stack machines, including Forth, have other memory too.)
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09:58:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * OrangeNote * New user account
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10:07:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54704&oldid=54696 * OrangeNote * (+224)
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10:53:27 <esowiki> [[ALPACA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54705&oldid=45993 * OrangeNote * (-12) Fix external dead link
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14:25:32 <j-bot> wob_jonas: =o- =-o o=- o-= -=o -o=
14:25:56 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 0+=- 0+-= 0=+- 0=-+ 0-+= 0-=+ +0=- +0-= +=0- +=-0 +-0= +-=0 =0+- =0-+ =+0- =+-0 =-0+ =-+0 -0+= -0=+ -+0= -+=0 -=0+ -=+0
14:27:31 <j-bot> wob_jonas: tofugn tofung tofgun tofgnu tofnug tofngu toufgn toufng tougfn tougnf tounfg toungf togfun togfnu togufn togunf tognfu tognuf tonfug tonfgu tonufg tonugf tongfu tonguf tfougn tfoung tfogun tfognu tfonug tfongu tfuogn tfuong tfugon tfugno tfunog tfungo tfgoun tfgonu tfguon tfguno tfgnou tfgnuo tfnoug tfnogu tfnuog tfnugo tfngou tfnguo tuofgn tuofng tuogfn tuognf tuonfg tuongf tufog...
14:28:24 <j-bot> wob_jonas: tofugn tofung tofgun tofgnu tofnug tofngu toufgn toufng tougfn tougnf tounfg toungf togfun togfnu togufn togunf tognfu tognuf tonfug tonfgu tonufg tonugf tongfu tonguf tfougn tfoung tfogun tfognu tfonug tfongu tfuogn tfuong tfugon tfugno tfunog tfungo tfgoun tfgonu tfguon tfguno tfgnou tfgnuo tfnoug tfnogu tfnuog tfnugo tfngou tfnguo tuofgn tuofng tuogfn tuognf tuonfg tuongf tufog...
14:28:24 <j-bot> wob_jonas: tufgno tufnog tufngo tugofn tugonf tugfon tugfno tugnof tugnfo tunofg tunogf tunfog tunfgo tungof tungfo tgofun tgofnu tgoufn tgounf tgonfu tgonuf tgfoun tgfonu tgfuon tgfuno tgfnou tgfnuo tguofn tguonf tgufon tgufno tgunof tgunfo tgnofu tgnouf tgnfou tgnfuo tgnuof tgnufo tnofug tnofgu tnoufg tnougf tnogfu tnoguf tnfoug tnfogu tnfuog tnfugo tnfgou tnfguo tnuofg tnuogf tnufog tnufg...
14:28:36 <j-bot> wob_jonas: tngofu tngouf tngfou tngfuo tnguof tngufo otfugn otfung otfgun otfgnu otfnug otfngu otufgn otufng otugfn otugnf otunfg otungf otgfun otgfnu otgufn otgunf otgnfu otgnuf otnfug otnfgu otnufg otnugf otngfu otnguf oftugn oftung oftgun oftgnu oftnug oftngu ofutgn ofutng ofugtn ofugnt ofuntg ofungt ofgtun ofgtnu ofgutn ofgunt ofgntu ofgnut ofntug ofntgu ofnutg ofnugt ofngtu ofngut outfg...
14:28:52 <j-bot> wob_jonas: outgnf outnfg outngf ouftgn ouftng oufgtn oufgnt oufntg oufngt ougtfn ougtnf ougftn ougfnt ougntf ougnft ountfg ountgf ounftg ounfgt oungtf oungft ogtfun ogtfnu ogtufn ogtunf ogtnfu ogtnuf ogftun ogftnu ogfutn ogfunt ogfntu ogfnut ogutfn ogutnf oguftn ogufnt oguntf ogunft ogntfu ogntuf ognftu ognfut ognutf ognuft ontfug ontfgu ontufg ontugf ontgfu ontguf onftug onftgu onfutg onfug...
14:29:08 <j-bot> wob_jonas: onutfg onutgf onuftg onufgt onugtf onugft ongtfu ongtuf ongftu ongfut ongutf onguft ftougn ftoung ftogun ftognu ftonug ftongu ftuogn ftuong ftugon ftugno ftunog ftungo ftgoun ftgonu ftguon ftguno ftgnou ftgnuo ftnoug ftnogu ftnuog ftnugo ftngou ftnguo fotugn fotung fotgun fotgnu fotnug fotngu foutgn foutng fougtn fougnt fountg foungt fogtun fogtnu fogutn fogunt fogntu fognut fontu...
14:29:28 <j-bot> wob_jonas: fonugt fongtu fongut futogn futong futgon futgno futnog futngo fuotgn fuotng fuogtn fuognt fuontg fuongt fugton fugtno fugotn fugont fugnto fugnot funtog funtgo funotg funogt fungto fungot fgtoun fgtonu fgtuon fgtuno fgtnou fgtnuo fgotun fgotnu fgoutn fgount fgontu fgonut fguton fgutno fguotn fguont fgunto fgunot fgntou fgntuo fgnotu fgnout fgnuto fgnuot fntoug fntogu fntuog fntug...
14:29:44 <j-bot> wob_jonas: fnotug fnotgu fnoutg fnougt fnogtu fnogut fnutog fnutgo fnuotg fnuogt fnugto fnugot fngtou fngtuo fngotu fngout fnguto fnguot utofgn utofng utogfn utognf utonfg utongf utfogn utfong utfgon utfgno utfnog utfngo utgofn utgonf utgfon utgfno utgnof utgnfo utnofg utnogf utnfog utnfgo utngof utngfo uotfgn uotfng uotgfn uotgnf uotnfg uotngf uoftgn uoftng uofgtn uofgnt uofntg uofngt uogtf...
14:30:00 <j-bot> wob_jonas: uogfnt uogntf uognft uontfg uontgf uonftg uonfgt uongtf uongft uftogn uftong uftgon uftgno uftnog uftngo ufotgn ufotng ufogtn ufognt ufontg ufongt ufgton ufgtno ufgotn ufgont ufgnto ufgnot ufntog ufntgo ufnotg ufnogt ufngto ufngot ugtofn ugtonf ugtfon ugtfno ugtnof ugtnfo ugotfn ugotnf ugoftn ugofnt ugontf ugonft ugfton ugftno ugfotn ugfont ugfnto ugfnot ugntof ugntfo ugnotf ugnof...
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15:28:52 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Is this the Krusty Krab * New user account
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15:37:32 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54706&oldid=54704 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+253) /* Introductions */
15:37:44 <esowiki> [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54707 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+93) Created page with "== Introduction == Ay whaddup I'm Patrick == List of Languages I Made == Right now nothing"
15:40:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54708&oldid=54455 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+4)
15:42:22 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54709&oldid=54708 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+49)
15:42:34 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54710&oldid=54709 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+12)
15:42:59 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54711&oldid=54710 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3)
15:43:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54712&oldid=54711 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-1)
15:43:09 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54713&oldid=54712 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+9)
15:43:25 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54714&oldid=54713 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-2)
15:43:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54715&oldid=54714 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2)
15:43:42 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54716&oldid=54715 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0)
15:44:14 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54717&oldid=54716 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+5)
15:44:20 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54718&oldid=54717 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0)
15:45:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54719&oldid=54718 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-63)
15:46:44 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54720&oldid=54719 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-18) /* ComputerFuck */
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15:53:34 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54721 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+1159) Created page with "'''Computerfuck''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It adds more commands and features multiple storage units. ==..."
15:53:48 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54722&oldid=54721 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+4) /* Features */
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15:57:43 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54723&oldid=54722 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-189) /* Features */
15:57:56 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54724&oldid=54723 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2) /* Features */
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16:11:59 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54725&oldid=54724 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+1466) /* Features */
16:12:12 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54726&oldid=54725 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+1) /* Features */
16:12:22 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54727&oldid=54726 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0) /* Features */
16:12:35 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54728&oldid=54727 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-1) /* Features */
16:12:53 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54729&oldid=54728 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-1) /* Features */
16:13:00 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54730&oldid=54729 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+1) /* Syntax */
16:14:07 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54731&oldid=54730 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-2) /* Syntax */
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16:14:45 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54732&oldid=54731 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2) /* Syntax */
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16:15:15 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54733&oldid=54732 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+15) /* Syntax */
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16:16:49 <int-e> (so many individual edits, somebody needs to learn about the preview feature)
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17:51:35 <zzo38> What is the best way in a C code to make the absolute filename including following symlinks? I want to check if a cache is invalidated and intend to do so by the use of the filename (possibly including other information, such as the inode number if needed) and a timestamp (either the ctime or mtime, whichever is more recent). Or, maybe there is a better way?
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20:25:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Icefinger * New user account
20:28:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54734&oldid=54706 * Icefinger * (+227) /* Introductions */
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20:36:03 <esowiki> [[Advanced Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54735 * Icefinger * (+1424) Created page with "The [https://github.com/icefinger/ABrainFuck Advanced Brainfuck] is an extension of the brainfuck programming language. It adds the abality to switch to "file mode". to open..."
20:36:48 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54736&oldid=54520 * Icefinger * (+25) /* A */
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22:32:43 <fizzie> Man, there's a lot of cruft in the HackEgo repository. I may need to trim the history at some point.
22:32:48 <fizzie> There's, for example, node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz, node-v0.10.22-linux-x64.tar.gz and factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz. And a fully extracted perl-5.22.2 and a .deb for powershell. And five pastes that are exactly 10 megs each.
22:33:02 <fizzie> (In the future, if you want something bulky, I would ask if you could first ask me to install it on the system instead, or use the unversioned space.)
22:43:58 <MoonyTheDwarf> can you add factorio. We'd all love to play it on hackego /s
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22:47:28 <fizzie> A lot of things probably won't work (it's on a very minimal system, plus things are different), the web repo browser in particular.
22:47:43 <HackEso> HackEso is almost but not quite unlike HackEgo.
22:53:40 <fizzie> It's got the same multibot bug that it never waits on the child processes, so each command leaves a "[python] <defunct>" zombie. Will have to kludge something to fix that.
22:55:41 <HackEso> 1/3127:11461:2018-04-07 <fizzïe> learn HackEso is almost but not quite unlike HackEgo. \ 11460:2018-03-16 <shachäf> swrjan s/punster/hero/ \ 11459:2018-03-16 <oerjän> rm bin/5? \ 11458:2018-03-16 <shachäf> sled bin/5?//s/1/{1:-w q}/ \ 11457:2018-03-16 <shachäf> sled bin/5?//s/$/ | sport/ \ 11456:2018-03-16 <shachäf> mkx bin/q//quote "$@
22:55:54 <fizzie> I may be missing some changes there.
22:56:15 <shachaf> `slwd HackEso//s/ H/ entirely&/
22:56:22 <shachaf> `slwd hackeso//s/ H/ entirely&/
22:56:24 <HackEso> hackeso//HackEso is almost but not quite unlike entirely HackEgo.
22:57:20 <shachaf> `slwd hackeso//s/t/&,/; s/te/&, entirely/
22:57:22 <HackEso> hackeso//HackEso is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike HackEgo.
22:57:43 <shachaf> That doesn't even make sense.
22:58:24 <shachaf> fizzie: In the future I think people will put bulky things in tmp/
22:58:43 <shachaf> Which probably didn't exist when all those things were added to the history.
23:00:55 <fizzie> That's true, it's a recent invention.
23:01:02 <fizzie> Also I don't have a copy of tmp. :/
23:01:17 <fizzie> I'll make sure it's backed up from this instance, but I didn't think of it for HackEgo.
23:02:43 <shachaf> Well, that's part of the tmp contract.
23:02:57 <shachaf> Can you search the logs for the last instance of ls tmp or similar?
23:03:08 <shachaf> I bet there wasn't much important there.
23:03:11 <fizzie> As soon as I finish this subprocess thing.
23:03:13 <HackEso> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
23:04:46 <fizzie> I think I have something that should work, but my local development instance isn't working at all for some reason. I'll just... test in production, I guess.
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23:05:21 <MoonyTheDwarf> fizzie, we both know umlbox is one of the most finicky things ever invented. I'm not suprised :p
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23:05:51 <shachaf> #esoteric is production now?!
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23:06:19 <fizzie> shachaf: Well, relatively speaking.
23:07:01 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
23:07:14 <HackEso> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:07:22 <shachaf> Did Taneb also invent general relativity?
23:07:53 <fizzie> shachaf: Turns out last `ls tmp is actually just "paste \ spline \ spout", because oerjan recently cleaned everything from there.
23:08:14 <MoonyTheDwarf> but if taneb invented the universe, by sideeffect he invented everything involving sex
23:09:00 <HackEso> This sentence is just. Taneb invented it.
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23:09:52 <zzo38> MoonyTheDwarf: I don't think so, it mean he "meta-invented" such thing, maybe
23:10:24 <MoonyTheDwarf> meta-invention is a superset of invention. So by downreference, he invented it.
23:10:37 <zzo38> O, in that case, OK
23:11:51 <zzo38> Then what doesn't the Tanebventions list also include paradox?
23:13:52 <MoonyTheDwarf> because if taneb invented the universe, but didn't invent the paradox, that's a paradox, and so is this statement
23:19:48 <fizzie> Hmm. I don't have a copy of the CaC hackego.esolangs.org nginx configuration. :/
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23:38:43 <fizzie> The web stuff will probably have to wait until later. I can't even remember whether I used uWSGI or fcgiwrap or something else to serve it.
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02:53:41 <esowiki> [[User:Elronnd/brainfcuk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54737&oldid=53113 * Elronnd * (+664) Clarify functions
02:55:57 <zzo38> I implemented a rotation by three shears, but it doesn't quite work so well (it is almost good, though). It does reverse properly though.
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03:15:48 <zzo38> If you add a border around it to ensure the rotated picture will fit, then a command such as ff-rotate X | ff-rotate -X for some angle X degrees will result in the same original except that the corner might be wrong in some cases (although this corner is part of the border and not part of the original picture anyways)
03:23:34 <HackEso> The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
03:23:49 <oerjan> there are indeed some edits missing.
03:48:02 <zzo38> Hero Mesh doesn't have types of values; everything is a unsigned 32-bit integer (although many attributes are limited to 16-bits). I am doing Free Hero Mesh differently; each value stored in a variable or data stack includes the type (and whether a number is signed or unsigned depends on the context; there are separate instructions for signed arithmetic and for unsigned arithmetic). This avoids segfaults and many other problems.
03:48:44 <zzo38> I thought to use the following internal representation in Free Hero Mesh for a value: typedef struct { union { Sint32 s; Uint32 u; }; Uint32 t; } Value;
03:51:49 <zzo38> If the value is a pointer to an object, then "u" is the index number of the object and "t" is the generation number (which is always at least 16). This way it won't segfault, and if an object is destroyed and the same index number is reused for a new object, it will be able to tell that it is invalid because the generation number doesn't match.
03:51:52 <zzo38> Do you think this is good?
03:53:57 <zzo38> (The types are: number, class, message, sound, string, object.)
03:59:46 <zzo38> (Directions and key codes are just numbers.)
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04:46:43 <izabera> fizzie: unmute me from ##c
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05:04:02 <zzo38> Berusky I could be ported to Free Hero Mesh probably
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06:19:04 <HackEso> ysaclist 74: boily shachaf
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06:24:39 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ wob_jonas//wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks.
06:24:54 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ montreal//Montréal is a city in Canada that somehow is obsessed with Vietnamese cuisine.
06:25:33 <HackEso> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
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06:55:16 <HackEso> ^?ELF^B^A^A^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^C^@>^@^A^@^@^@M- 7^@^@^@^@^@^@@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^XM-C^A^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@@^@8^@^@@^@^[^@^Z^@^F^@^@^@^E^@^@^@@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@M-x^A^@^@^@^@^@^@M-x^A^@^@^@^@^@^@^H^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^C^@^@^@^D^@^@^@8^B^@^@^@^@^@^@8^B^@^@^@^@^@^@8^B^@^@^@^@^@^@^\^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^\^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^A^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^A^@^@^
06:55:35 <oerjan> wob_jonas: the question is whether it _is_ bash
06:55:43 <oerjan> that is running wisdom
06:56:00 <oerjan> the original HackEgo has dash as default shell
06:56:28 <HackEso> bash: bin/wisom: No such file or directory
06:56:31 <HackEso> bin/wisdom: line 1: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ warning//Warnings indicate when you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence.
06:56:38 <HackEso> prography//Prography is the art of turning computational algorithms into something totally incomprehensible to anyone whose brain isn't made of silicon and arsenic.
06:56:38 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ oasys//You are next to an oasis, with high dunes of sand surrounding it. You are likely to be eaten by a camel.
06:56:38 <wob_jonas> you could test by making a script similar to wisdom, and make it print $BASH_VESRION or try to use some bash-specific syntax
06:57:08 <oerjan> hm well shachaf's dash test didn't have the bug
06:57:40 <wob_jonas> it could also be bash in posix mod
06:58:04 <HackEso> lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 4 Jan 24 2017 /bin/sh -> dash*
06:58:34 <HackEso> dpkg-query: error: failed to open package info file '/var/lib/dpkg/status' for reading: No such file or directory
06:58:37 <oerjan> ok so it's bash settings
06:58:58 <wob_jonas> you could try to add a shebang line to wisdom to make it run with bash
06:59:25 <wob_jonas> does the shebang line affect that these days?
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07:03:20 <shachaf> But most of the scripts in bin/ are missing that line.
07:03:34 <shachaf> They ought to have it but we've been making one-liners with bin/mk for a long time
07:03:45 <wob_jonas> dunno, I'm quite sure I added them to all the scripts I made, or most of them at least
07:03:57 <wob_jonas> some I made by copying some list template
07:04:03 <wob_jonas> but for the rest, I added the shebang
07:04:05 <shachaf> I know, but our tools are inferior.
07:04:16 <HackEso> cat: 'bin/```': No such file or directory
07:04:19 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooooooodl
07:04:23 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnooooodl
07:04:45 <HackEso> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
07:05:18 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$@" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic
07:05:25 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ for n; do if [ lethe = "$n" ]; then rm -f "wisdom/$n"; else rm-p "wisdom/$n"; fi && echo "Forget what?"; done
07:05:26 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
07:05:36 <wob_jonas> most of them do have a shebang line
07:05:38 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: line 1: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too
07:05:49 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -n 1; fi
07:05:50 <shachaf> `` doag | grep mkx | wc -l
07:06:04 <shachaf> That's a lot of scripts with no #!
07:06:28 <shachaf> I mean, that has a lot of duplicates.
07:06:38 <HackEso> 10487:2017-03-22 <hppavilion[1̈]> mkx bin/rienvenido//#!/bin/sh<new>bienvenido "$@" | rainwords \ 10443:2017-03-19 <hppavilion[1̈]> mkx bin/lowercase2b//#!/bin/bash\\ntr A-Z\xc3\x98 a-z\xc3\xb8 \ 10397:2017-03-11 <hppavilion̈1> mkx bin/lowercase2//#!/bin/bash\\ntr A-Z a-z | sed \'y/\xc3\x98A\xcc\x8a\xc3\x86\xc5\x92\xc3\x9e\xc3\x90\xc3\x84\xc3\x9
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07:07:14 <oerjan> `sled bin/wisdom//1i#!/bin/sh
07:07:16 <HackEso> bin/wisdom//#!/bin/sh \ f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
07:07:20 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
07:07:22 <HackEso> infidel//An infidel is someone who doesn't support the great former leader. Socialismo o muerte!
07:07:43 <HackEso> cat: bin/rienvenido: No such file or directory
07:08:16 <shachaf> I'm trying to figure out how 10487 worked
07:08:29 <shachaf> As far as I can tell none of those entries worked.
07:08:58 <HackEso> diff -r 7b181cf7eab3 -r 87c81864b834 bin/rienvenido \ --- /dev/nullThu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 \ +++ b/bin/rienvenidoWed Mar 22 07:58:55 2017 +0000 \ @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ \ +#!/bin/sh<new>bienvenido "$@" | rainwords
07:09:33 <HackEso> diff -r 2e542a4c4a63 -r 9f7a006ff95c bin/lowercase2b \ --- /dev/nullThu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 \ +++ b/bin/lowercase2bSun Mar 19 20:01:11 2017 +0000 \ @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ \ +#!/bin/bash\ntr A-ZØ a-zø
07:09:48 <HackEso> 10497:2017-03-22 <oerjän> rm bin/rienvenido \ 10490:2017-03-22 <hppavilion[1̈]> sled bin/rienvenido//s/>// \ 10489:2017-03-22 <hppavilion[1̈]> sled bin/rienvenido//s/<// \ 10488:2017-03-22 <hppavilion[1̈]> sled bin/rienvenido//s/\\<new\\>/\\n/ \ 10487:2017-03-22 <hppavilion[1̈]> mkx bin/rienvenido//#!/bin/sh<new>bienvenido "$@" | rainwords \
07:13:25 <wob_jonas> so fizzie is running HackEso, right?
07:13:40 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thank: not found
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08:48:51 <fizzie> I love how it serendipitiously picked the wisdom for "warning" after the warning once there.
08:49:30 <fizzie> Anyway, I can switch the default shell to bash.
08:50:01 <fizzie> And/or to dash, I didn't read all that carefully about which one it should be.
08:50:11 <wob_jonas> fizzie: I love how it picked the wisdom for wob_jonas when I asked, so much that I tried to check if some context about the command (such as the IRC nick asking and the channel) is now available to HackEso commands in env variables.
08:51:27 <shachaf> fizzie: It always irritated me slightly that we weren't using #! in scripts.
08:53:47 <shachaf> But of course I was part of the problem.
08:56:05 <fizzie> It does make oneliner scripts nicer when inspected via cat.
08:56:50 <esowiki> [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54738&oldid=54707 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+12) /* List of Languages I Made */
08:57:15 <esowiki> [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54739&oldid=54738 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+26) /* List of Languages I Made */
08:59:06 <esowiki> [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54740&oldid=54739 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+5) /* List of Languages I Made */
08:59:30 <esowiki> [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54741&oldid=54740 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-44) /* List of Languages I Made */
09:14:46 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54742&oldid=54733 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+385)
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15:59:03 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54743&oldid=54742 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+15)
15:59:55 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54744&oldid=54743 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-108) /* Features */
16:00:21 <APic> ,o0(Clusterfuck)
16:03:53 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54745&oldid=54744 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+40) /* Syntax */
16:04:45 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54746&oldid=54745 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+650) /* Syntax */
16:05:17 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54747&oldid=54746 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0) /* Syntax */
16:10:18 <APic> At least it does not seem to be a Troll this Time.
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16:32:51 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54748&oldid=54747 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-3377) Replaced content with "Sorry, the creator of this language decided to change its name"
16:33:19 <esowiki> [[Computerfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54749&oldid=54748 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+78)
16:34:51 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54750 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3502) Created page with "'''AmBored''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more comm..."
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16:43:19 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54751&oldid=54750 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-976)
16:43:57 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54752&oldid=54751 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-90) /* Features */
16:46:20 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54753&oldid=54752 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+228) /* Syntax */
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17:01:22 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54754&oldid=54753 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+268)
17:01:43 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54755&oldid=54754 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+9) /* Syntax */
17:01:59 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54756&oldid=54755 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+31) /* Interface */
17:02:26 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54757&oldid=54756 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+25) /* Interface */
17:02:41 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54758&oldid=54757 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3) /* Interface */
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17:05:15 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54759&oldid=54758 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+739)
17:05:45 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54760&oldid=54759 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+19) /* Interface */
17:06:27 <fizzie> `sled bin/url//s,hackego.esolangs.org/fshg,hack.esolangs.org/repo,g;s,/index\.cgi,,
17:06:28 <HackEso> bin/url//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ elif re.
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17:06:35 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/url
17:07:47 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54761&oldid=54760 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+92)
17:07:56 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54762&oldid=54761 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2) /* Footnote */
17:08:07 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54763&oldid=54762 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-4) /* Footnote */
17:09:04 <fizzie> (Had to change the paths a little anyway due to some modernization removing the "index.cgi" bit, thought I might as well change it more.)
17:09:33 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54764&oldid=54763 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+1) /* Ay btw */
17:11:40 <APic> Good old Paths. 😸
17:11:45 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54765&oldid=54764 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+81) /* Ay btw */
17:18:02 <fizzie> `sled bin/url//s,https://hackego.esolangs.org/,https://hack.esolangs.org/,
17:18:04 <HackEso> bin/url//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ elif re.
17:18:22 <fizzie> (For tmp/, which won't work anyway yet.)
17:19:57 <fizzie> `sled bin/hurl//s,hackego.esolangs.org/fshg,hack.esolangs.org/repo,g;s,/index\.cgi,,
17:19:59 <HackEso> bin/hurl//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \
17:20:01 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/burl
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17:26:25 <fizzie> `sled bin/raw-url//s,hackego\.esolangs\.org,hack.esolangs.org,g;s,/fshg,/repo,g;s,/index\.cgi,,
17:26:27 <HackEso> bin/raw-url//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ elif
17:27:45 <fizzie> `sled bin/raw-url//s,http:,https:,g
17:27:46 <HackEso> bin/raw-url//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ elif
17:28:38 <fizzie> `slwd `revert//s,hackego.esolangs.org/fshg,hack.esolangs.org/repo,
17:28:40 <HackEso> `revert//`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See <https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/>. It is a builtin command so cannot be called from other commands.
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17:40:25 <fizzie> `slwd tmflry/fs//s,http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi,https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/,
17:40:38 <fizzie> `sled tmflry/fs//s,http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi,https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/,
17:40:40 <HackEso> tmflry/fs//File system. HackEgo/HackBot's is https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/
17:40:46 <fizzie> I'm not so sure about this tmflry.
17:42:56 <izabera> why don't you unmute me in ##c
17:43:57 <fizzie> I thought that wouldn't be relevant any more, I was asleep when you last asked. Aren't those usually timed? I'm not much of an op, TBH.
17:44:58 <izabera> no pragma- muted me manually
17:48:37 <fizzie> It should still time out, I think by default in 24 hours.
17:48:56 <fizzie> Also I don't think I'm technically an admin as far as candide is concerned.
17:50:26 <fizzie> Not as far as my logs are concerned.
17:50:38 <fizzie> <pragma-> ,mute izabera
17:50:44 <fizzie> -!- mode/##C [+q izabera!*@*] by candide
17:52:30 <fizzie> I should in theory be able to -q, but it's very possible candide would just +q back again. I could ask.
17:52:38 <izabera> maybe you should demote that rougue bot
17:53:04 <fizzie> That's a bit more politics than I could aspire to.
17:53:30 <imode> . o O (one wonders why you got muted in the first place...)
17:54:50 <imode> see it's right there. ---------^
17:54:51 <izabera> that's not the wonder you're looking for
17:55:06 <fizzie> It's pretty obvious from the context. But I think 24 hours is a bit much.
17:58:50 <fizzie> I asked about the bot thing. Now I have some urgent food-related activities to do, will be around.
17:59:26 <izabera> what could be more important than restoring someone's freedom of speech?!
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18:43:16 <wob_jonas> So now the tense wait until we find out the stalemate.
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18:44:58 <esowiki> [[LoadedFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54766 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3511) Created page with "'''LoadedFuck''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more c..."
18:54:15 <imode> declarative brainfuck pls.
18:55:28 <wob_jonas> by the way, Gimp 2 is actually in the prerelease stage now. that's really good.
18:55:51 <imode> that begs the question, what would the equivalent "brainfuck" be for declarative languages. LC/CL don't count.
18:56:08 <imode> microkanren's a decent candidate. presupposes too much though.
18:56:33 <wob_jonas> imode: would a computed come from make a language declarative?
18:57:15 <imode> show me an example! :P
18:57:29 <imode> because I'm not sure anything's actually declarative.
18:58:35 <APic> Once there was „blubb.ch“
18:58:52 <APic> It was some Minesweeper-Game
18:59:01 <APic> And You had to submit Solvers in various Languages
18:59:05 * APic submitted on in XSLT
18:59:19 <APic> It was astonishingly short.
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19:00:08 <imode> you got me, man. I don't even know what declarative is anymore.
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19:01:18 <esowiki> [[LoadedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54767&oldid=54766 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+54)
19:01:37 <esowiki> [[LoadedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54768&oldid=54767 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+50) /* Links */
19:02:13 <esowiki> [[LoadedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54769&oldid=54768 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+16) /* Links */
19:02:25 <imode> another brainfuck derivative with extended semantics! why are we not all writing code for *fuck oriented processors yet.
19:02:52 <imode> there was that 256-core beast of a machine with a central message bus.
19:04:20 <esowiki> [[LoadedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54770&oldid=54769 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+96) /* Syntax */
19:04:46 <esowiki> [[LoadedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54771&oldid=54770 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0) /* Syntax */
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21:03:44 <imode> do we have an actor calculus yet?
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21:09:55 <imode> like I've never seen a concrete description of the actor model like I have the pi calculus.
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21:14:32 <imode> everywhere I look it's like "hey the model exists and it involves actors passing messages to eachother" but never gives anything in the way of actual semantics. it's like this vague idea that has some implementations but doesn't actually have a formalism.
21:17:07 <imode> like I see "oh the actor model is turing complete" but yet all formal treatment of it involves the lambda calculus or some other tumor-like attachment onto hewitt's original description.
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21:19:36 <imode> please, dear god, anybody here take mercy, show me what the actor model looks like without reference to any other turing-complete model of computation. ;~;
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23:53:57 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnooodl
23:54:49 <oerjan> fizzie: the problem wasn't that the shell is bash or dash, but that the new bash has some different defaults.
23:56:37 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
23:56:53 <HackEso> bin/wisdom:f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl \ bin/randbin:f=$(find bin -ipath "bin/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#bin/}//"; grep '' "$f"; else
23:57:05 <oerjan> `` grep -l -r print0 bin
23:57:06 <HackEso> bin/wisdom \ bin/randbin \ bin/lastwisdoms
23:57:12 <HackEso> f=$(find bin -ipath "bin/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#bin/}//"; grep '' "$f"; else echo "That's not binary."; fi | rnooodl
23:57:19 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/randbin: line 1: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ zalgo//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import codecs,sys,random \ stdin=codecs.getreader("utf-8")(sys.stdin) \ stdout=codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.stdout) \ x=[unichr(0x300+i) for i in range(0,112)+[393,2887]] \ def z(n,c): \ if c in ["\n"]+
23:57:40 <oerjan> `sled bin/randbin//1i#!/bin/bash
23:57:41 <HackEso> bin/randbin//#!/bin/bash \ f=$(find bin -ipath "bin/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#bin/}//"; grep '' "$f"; else echo "That's not binary."; fi | rnooodl
23:57:45 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/randbin: line 2: warning: command substitution: ignored null byte in input \ rainbow.old//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='
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23:58:04 <oerjan> `sled bin/randbin//1i#!/bin/dash
23:58:05 <HackEso> bin/randbin//#!/bin/dash \ f=$(find bin -ipath "bin/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#bin/}//"; grep '' "$f"; else echo "That's not binary."; fi | rnooodl
23:58:12 <HackEso> mk//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
23:58:29 <HackEso> /2018-04-08/ `revert // /2018-04-07/ hackeso // /2018-03-18/ oerjan // /2018-03-11/ a // bpaaihiyw // i // lbjumykca // password // tanebventions: math // xshkeopjp // /2018-03-03/ aglist // befunge // can't // cube // test // underload // /2018-02-24/ procrastination // /2018-02-10/ boily // peace witch // /2018-02-03/ dowg // fug // /2018-01-2
23:58:37 <HackEso> find .hg/store/data/wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 /bin/ls -t | perl -pe 'use POSIX;chop;$d=strftime("%F",localtime((stat($_))[9]));s=^.hg/store/data/wisdom/(.*).i$=\1 // =;s=^=/$d/ = if$d ne$p;$p=$d;s=_(.)=uc($1)=eg;s=~([0-9a-f][0-9a-f])=chr hex$1=eg'
00:00:00 <oerjan> that may be a different way to fix it.
00:00:56 <oerjan> `` grep -l -r 'shuf -z' bin
00:01:39 <oerjan> `` grep -l -r ' -z' bin
00:01:40 <HackEso> bin/wisdom \ bin/f \ bin/trueif \ bin/randbin \ bin/whoops \ bin/tomfoolery \ bin/hello-world-in-any-language
00:01:47 <HackEso> #! /bin/bash \ cmd="$1" \ shift \ f="$*" \ if [[ -z "$f" && "$cmd" == *\ * ]]; then f="${cmd#* }"; cmd="${cmd%% *}"; fi \ if [[ -z "$f" ]]; then echo try: \`f command filename; elif [[ -e "$f" ]]; then "$cmd" "$(< "$f")"; else echo no such file: "$f"; fi
00:02:04 <HackEso> OLD="wisdom/$1"; [ -z "$1" ] && OLD="$(lastfiles)"; NEW="${OLD}s"; if [ -f "$NEW" ]; then echo "«${NEW}» already exists"; exit 1; fi; mv "$OLD" "$NEW" && echo "«${OLD}» -> «${NEW}»"
00:02:25 <oerjan> hm hard to grep for everything that uses NUL separation.
00:03:21 <oerjan> fizzie: anyway, if that's the only problem it's rare enough that we can fix the commands individually (and maybe there aren't any more)
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00:31:32 <oerjan> . o O ( Is there a Mediawiki script to suggest Preview to people who edit the same article several times in a span of 5 minutes? )
00:34:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Computerfuck]]": content was: "Sorry, the creator of this language decided to change its name Feel free to use this...", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]" ([[User talk:Is this the Krusty Krab|talk]])
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00:39:40 <oerjan> MoonyTheDwarf: scripts are so much less scary
00:41:37 <oerjan> no, no, i'm the one who _gets_ scared.
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00:44:14 <HackEso> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ else:
00:47:02 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/
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01:01:10 <oerjan> `le/rn actor model//The actor model is a model of computation based on actors (duh). Its major implementation is the Shakespeare Programming Language.
01:01:12 <HackEso> Learned 'actor model': The actor model is a model of computation based on actors (duh). Its major implementation is the Shakespeare Programming Language.
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02:35:45 <izabera> fizzie: pragma- is ignoring me
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02:36:03 <shachaf> writing some c++ template things
02:36:18 <shachaf> I feel like some bad decisions brought me to this point.
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02:58:45 <oerjan> . o O ( * bans izabera for bringing in conflicts from other channels )
02:59:09 <oerjan> shachaf: sounds like a given.
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03:23:28 <zzo38> Is there a command in Linux to add a timestamp on each line?
03:24:36 <izabera> there's a command named ts in moreutils
03:29:47 <zzo38> I already have moreutils installed, and now I looked at it again, yes it is useful
03:45:39 <zzo38> I think moreutils is good, especially the "sponge" command
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04:22:46 <zzo38> Now I have made the loading key bindings in Free Hero Mesh much faster. I also added testing for the key bindings as well as for pictures and a few other things; drawing the pictures seems to work now.
04:29:02 <zzo38> The SQLITE_PREPARE_PERSISTENT option is useful, because if a key binding contains a SQL statement (most bindings don't, but it can be useful if you want to assign a key to do something other than a built-in command; even statements such as VACUUM can be used) then it keeps it prepared all the time, and SQLITE_PREPARE_PERSISTENT is a hint in case it can work better due to that.
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05:22:26 <imode> why is brainfuck so popular.
05:38:49 <shachaf> it's the lobbyists from Big Brick
05:42:55 <imode> what does Big Brick invest in brainfuck.
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05:46:21 <HackEso> Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives.
05:46:32 <zzo38> Because Small Brick cannot invest in brainfuck.
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05:49:29 <imode> aw. but isn't brainfuck just turing machine derivative.
05:51:17 <izabera> isn't python just turing machine derivative
05:52:28 <imode> no it has lambdas. that's cheating.
05:53:20 <izabera> i thought we settled on lambda calculus == turing machines
05:53:54 <imode> if lambda calculus == turing machines then why do we have instruction sets and not processors based on the lambda calculus.
05:53:57 <imode> checkmate lispers.
05:57:47 <zzo38> Well, brainfuck is similar to P'' although there is a difference (such as P'' has no I/O)
06:07:51 <pikhq> imode: Didn't we though?
06:08:16 <zzo38> Lambda calculus is a different model than Turing machines though
06:08:33 <imode> lisp machines were just stack machines.
06:08:37 <pikhq> zzo38: And the fact that they're equivalent in power is a non-obvious result.
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07:37:52 <zzo38> Why doesn't the ARRL Numbered Radiograms include any questions? Also, why are some numbers unused (such as, ARL FORTY SEVEN seems to be unassigned)?
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07:45:37 <esowiki> [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54772&oldid=50560 * Zzo38 * (+160) List of commands
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12:24:20 <wob_jonas> zzo38: because that's the diagnostic side. a medicine of a different specialization asks the questions, sends you to the radiologist with them, then the radiologists makes the radiogram with x-ray photographic machine, and answers the questions.
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13:48:47 <wob_jonas> ais523: there's something that bothers me a bit about But is it art. if I read the rules right, if a program accepts an input and prints an output, then it also accepts the same input repeated twice and prints the same output repeated twice.
13:49:29 <ais523_> wob_jonas: yes, that's mentioned on the talk page
13:49:42 <wob_jonas> that's an ugly restriction on IO for the language to have, and it doesn't seem like it's necessary for the language. It doesn't look like it's too hard to have changed the definition of the language slightly to avoid it.
13:49:43 <ais523_> you can fix it easily by adding an explicit EOF character, but I thought it might be more interesting this way
13:50:16 <ais523_> (the simplest solution is to use DOS text file encoding, in which case a file ends at the first codepoint 26 / 0x1A)
13:50:20 <wob_jonas> I wasn't thinking of an EOF character, more like sawing off a corner of the rectangle (but restrict the remaining shape to non-empty).
13:50:30 <ais523_> ugh, that's much less artistic
13:50:48 <wob_jonas> Is it really? I've done it once to remove symmetry from a problem
13:53:22 <wob_jonas> You could also use some sort of a triangle frame instead of a rectangle with one cell cut off, but that would make programs a bit bigger.
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16:09:14 <wob_jonas> `python3 -c print([x for x in range(99)])
16:09:15 <HackEso> File "<string>", line 1 \ print([x for x in range(99)]) \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent
16:09:33 <wob_jonas> `python3 -cprint([x for x in range(99)])
16:09:34 <HackEso> [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88,
16:13:09 <HackEso> Linux (none) 4.9.82 #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:18:14 <wob_jonas> `fetch http://dpaste.com/3D5B57V.txt
16:18:16 <HackEso> 2018-04-09 17:18:15 URL:http://dpaste.com/3D5B57V.txt [44] -> "3D5B57V.txt" [1]
16:18:31 <HackEso> VJXM58QB1vl_2RWgmrzzK5RP2iYbkZxInYAwGHXiJH9H
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16:59:41 <fizzie> I would like to make the "no output file specified" variant of `fetch to write in tmp/ instead, but the behavior of tmp/ (together with the rerun-on-modify serialization) is too unintuitive to do that.
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17:42:03 <fizzie> wob_jonas: Re "so picky", at least continuation lines don't have to be marked with a non-blank character in column 6.
17:42:38 <wob_jonas> fizzie: are there even continuation lines? oh right, I think python allows a backslash in the previous line for that
17:43:03 <fizzie> Yes. And arguably parentheses and the like implicitly allow continuation lines.
17:43:46 <wob_jonas> although I'm partial to using underscore as a continuation marker, in those BASIC dialects that use a backslash for integer division
17:45:08 <fizzie> "Expressions in parentheses, square brackets or curly braces can be split over more than one physical line without using backslashes. -- There is no NEWLINE token between implicit continuation lines."
17:45:15 <fizzie> I guess Python does consider those continuation lines.
17:45:27 <fizzie> (That was from https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#line-structure )
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19:28:37 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Alpha-ketoacid * New user account
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21:57:38 <HackEso> 1/2:noooooodle//Noooooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. \ murphy'//Murphy's law obviously does not hold in wisdom/ \ mornington crescent//Sorry, you cannot read this wisdom until you've legally played Westminster. \ wtf//WTF means Welcome To Finland. \ the five w
21:57:42 <HackEso> 2/2:isdoms//The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom.
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22:16:59 <HackEso> HackEso is almost but not quite unlike HackEgo.
22:17:03 <HackEso> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
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22:33:15 <boily> @tell oerjan bonsϿirjan. https://youtu.be/BnoX3E2WFcc
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00:12:46 <oerjan> hm a new user failing to get through the filter
00:13:12 <shachaf> fizzie: So is HackEso a permanent replacement for HackEgo?
00:15:37 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 42m 22s ago: bonsϿirjan. https://youtu.be/BnoX3E2WFcc
00:18:56 <int-e> . o O ( it's now 80% off )
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00:28:29 <oerjan> MoonyTheDwarf: the CaC host hasn't come back up
00:29:04 <oerjan> and fizzie decided it was time to move.
00:30:10 <fizzie> shachaf: I don't know. Maybe?
00:30:10 * oerjan wonders if Gregor even knows
00:32:10 <int-e> ^8ball does Gregor know?
00:32:24 <fizzie> ^8ball Is fungot always correct?
00:32:30 <fizzie> Well, I guess that's definitive then.
00:32:41 <fizzie> But I didn't try terribly hard to reach him.
00:33:39 <int-e> Was the 80% off remark too subtle or just not funny, I wonder.
00:34:35 <int-e> (It's straight from the CaC website. But I'm not sure that they meant it as a feature.)
00:36:54 <fizzie> Too subtle for me, at least. I don't think I've been to the website.
00:41:58 <int-e> I was kind of hoping that it would be down :P
00:42:04 <int-e> But I was disappointed.
00:44:21 <Scrooble> MoonyTheDwarf, oerjan: are you two PPCGers as well?
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01:18:47 <imode> do any esolangs exist that're based off of something like the pi calculus, or message passing in general?
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05:57:07 * shachaf doesn't think of oerjan as a #esotericer because he saw him in #haskell first
06:01:38 <shachaf> It's a shame boily missed this ysaclist
06:01:56 <shachaf> Just around the one-minute mark.
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12:04:32 <fungot> wob_jonas: but would be interested in. ( beginning of september.) when it suffices
12:05:51 <Taneb> fungot: is 8ball always correct?
12:05:51 <fungot> Taneb: they even had a clear idea of what it would expand even more
12:06:08 <Taneb> So... 8ball isn't necessarily correct, but is considering the consequences
12:06:46 <Taneb> izabera: except for cricket pitches
12:06:55 <izabera> i said something like "oh that place is really close, like 200 yards away"
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12:09:00 <Taneb> Sounds believable, I'm afraid
12:10:02 <Taneb> I'd have used meters in that context, and would be surprised to hear anything else, other than maybe fractions of a mile
12:10:34 <wob_jonas> I don't use yards, because they're basically the same as meters, but very rarely I do use inches
12:11:16 <Taneb> The only imperial measurements I use are feet, for height, and miles, for distances
12:13:23 <wob_jonas> I do have to understand the more common of the strange measurements used by other people, and I'm still not good at that. I know that a pound is 0.45 kg, I know about inches and feet and miles and French leagues, but I have difficulty with degrees Fahrenheit, gallons, and the different ounces.
12:14:13 <Taneb> I have a better grasp of weights of people in stone than anything else
12:14:41 <Taneb> Although I know how much I weigh in kilograms (not much for my height)
12:16:34 <wob_jonas> Calories are easy because the wrapping of most food products here list the food energy content in both kcal/(100 g) and in kJ/(100 g)
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14:05:46 <fizzie> Taneb: I think street signs are in "yds" though?
14:05:58 <fizzie> Like the ones for automobiling around.
14:06:03 <fizzie> When they're sub-mile, I mean.
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18:01:05 <Sgeo__> I just learned of ANSI Music. It's half like an esoteric sound format
18:01:13 <Sgeo__> http://artscene.textfiles.com/ansimusic/
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19:06:10 <FireFly> Taneb: this past weekend I got to experience a car GPS/satnav unit that insisted on using yards for distances
19:07:59 <izabera> new york - san francisco, distance 247534 yards
19:10:26 <FireFly> The car owner said she got it very reluctantly because the only options she could find for GPSes supporting UK signs/signage insisted on using imperial units
19:10:30 <FireFly> although, probably was some years ago
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19:36:28 <fizzie> I'm not that surprised, all the signs/signage do that.
19:37:00 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_the_United_Kingdom#Units_of_measurement
19:37:34 <fizzie> For distances and speed limits, anyway. Other things can be metric or dual.
19:38:37 <fizzie> I think the built-in navigation thing in the car we rented last summer did imperial as well.
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21:55:36 <fungot> boily: sounds great. how was the sauce? i hear it's possible to do a fnord ( "
21:56:36 <shachaf> Did you see the latest ysaclist?
21:58:10 <boily> no! there's a new ysac? ^^
21:58:41 <shachaf> It has a truly heartbreaking moment a bit after 1:00.
21:59:14 <shachaf> fizzie: how've you been holding up with curl -F field=<- twh
22:00:06 <shachaf> Did you get the update yet?
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22:23:17 <fizzie> shachaf: I still need to ^d^d, so probably not.
22:23:36 <fizzie> When I do, I'll probably start closing a lot of shells I didn't mean to close.
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22:40:44 <boily> shachaf: what the... where's the pepper pepper pepper?
22:47:07 <shachaf> I know. That was the heartbreaking moment.
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04:14:52 <Sgeo_> http://cvs.synchro.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/src/conio/cterm.txt?content-type=text%2Fplain&revision=HEAD
04:14:57 <Sgeo_> Read the "ANSI" Music section
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07:47:06 <wob_jonas> `learn The pope is elected by a committee where every cardinal is invited. Luckily only a set of them show up.
07:47:08 <HackEso> Learned 'pope': The pope is elected by a committee where every cardinal is invited. Luckily only a set of them show up.
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12:29:11 <esowiki> [[Takeover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54773&oldid=54689 * Plokmijnuhby * (-1348) /* Cat program */ Let's not overthink it.
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12:33:47 <esowiki> [[Takeover]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54774&oldid=54773 * Plokmijnuhby * (+2) /* Cat program */
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17:02:00 <Thallori> Hello, I'm doing something silly. Does anyone know Sam512 of qntm?
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18:02:28 <shachaf> Thallori: I know his evil twin
18:28:17 <shachaf> https://qntm.org/news_whosthis
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18:40:03 <Thallori> But this is gone: http://shobadobs.com/
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19:32:26 <wob_jonas> Thallori: know in what sense? I've read some of his writings and exchanged some emails with him.
19:40:49 <wob_jonas> Sam512 has a special place in my heart because he was on the web early, so his content is how I found out about webcomics and web-original text fiction.
19:41:58 <int-e> . o O ( CUDA_ERROR_UNKNOWN is such a helpful error. )
19:43:09 <wob_jonas> int-e: print the numeric code too?
19:45:07 <int-e> that *is* a numeric error. CUDA_ERROR_UNKNOWN = 999
19:45:38 <int-e> But don't worry, I've solved the problem. It was a bug that was already fixed :P
19:48:05 <int-e> namely, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888952 ... fun with setuid/euids and /bin/sh. It turned up because nvidia's package repo (for Ubuntu...) provides a newer version of nvidia-modprobe that doesn't have that fix.
19:50:55 <Thallori> Just trying to do something silly to get into contact with them.
19:52:01 <Thallori> Heard they were on IRC, did some googling, found that a Sam512 was being mentioned here about two years ago. Figured I'd try to see if this was a channel they hung around. :P
19:52:32 <Thallori> Twitter is easiest, of course, but it's sometimes a fun project to see try penetrating the internet.
19:57:23 <wob_jonas> Thallori: he has an email address listed on his homepage, at "Contact"
19:57:33 <wob_jonas> I don't think I've seen him on irc
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20:00:56 <wob_jonas> Thallori:https://qntm.org/contact to be precise
20:01:08 <shachaf> I've seen him on IRC a lot but not on Freenode.
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20:06:54 <zemhill_> web.very_suicidal: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47
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20:24:34 <quintopia> https://www.quora.com/Can-Americans-understand-centimeters-meters-and-kilometers/answer/Tom-Robinson-110?share=f0735efc&srid=i3Gd
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20:38:40 <Thallori> shachaf: Ooh. Neat. Would you mind pointing a channel he's in? :P
20:39:49 <\oren\_> why does changing my stored proc to plpgsql from sql cause the thing to no longer infinitely chug the cpu?
20:40:08 <\oren\_> why does it chug forever in sql?
20:40:14 <\oren\_> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
20:40:39 <shachaf> Thallori: I'm not sure that I should.
20:40:56 <shachaf> I'm not in there anymore anyway.
20:41:25 <wob_jonas> ^ this, yes. the email is how I reached him. I know he reads that email. try that first, and if it doesn't work, I can give another contact or message him myself.
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20:41:46 <\oren\_> does SQL run my insert statements concurrently implicitly?
20:42:10 <\oren\_> and plpgsql run them sequentially?
20:46:03 <\oren\_> thus fixing a problem which shouldn't exist in first place given that the INSERTs are suppose to be in implicit transactions
20:53:45 <HackEso> 88) <DoctorDog> I am an inherently pornographic being. \ 911) <Sgeo> If that sexy_goats had some sort of namespace, so other things could add their own sexy_goats method to Object or whatever to do something different, I would have no complaint
20:54:41 <int-e> fungot: disappoint me
20:54:41 <fungot> int-e: you got my real name is fine, but it
20:56:35 <Thallori> I'll email him. Good luck with the brainfuck. Try it with emojis sometime! https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/7f5ldl/teleporting_at_exactly_75_mana_makes_your/dq9v00q/
20:58:23 <wob_jonas> what brainfuck? we don't do brainfuck.
20:59:31 <int-e> I thought it was the derivatives that we hate.
21:00:06 <wob_jonas> some people are on a different view
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21:21:10 <int-e> `bf >>+[[>]++[<]>-[<<+>>[>]+[<]>-]<++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>>>]
21:21:10 <HackEso> 01101011011010110101101101011011010110101101101011010110110101101101011010110110101101101011010110110101101011011010110110101101011011010110101101101011011010110101101101011011010110101101101011010110110101101101011010110110101101101011010110110101101011011010110110101101011011010110101101101011011010110101101101011011010110101101101011010110110101
21:27:13 <int-e> `bf >>>++[<<++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>>>[>]+>++[<]>-[<<+>>[>]<-<+[<]>-]>]
21:27:14 <HackEso> 01101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101100110100110010110100101100110100101101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010
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21:36:15 <int-e> hmm, this looks quite a bit more clever. http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/thuemorse.b
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22:41:07 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Larryrl * New user account
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22:46:08 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54775&oldid=54734 * Larryrl * (+358) /* Introductions */
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23:21:21 <int-e> `bf ++++++[>++++++++<-]>[.>>>[>]++[-<-<]<[<[->]+[>+]<-]<]
23:21:22 <HackEso> 01101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101100110100110010110100101100110100101101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010
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00:41:09 <HackEso> 1/2:rdocscovery//Rdocscoveries include footballs, how bored one person can get, and Budapest. \ progres//Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. \ imode//imode is an Innovative Multicomponent Drug Designer, afflicted by a severe case of the UPPERs. \ diagram//A diagram is just a functor. \ pokemon//A pokemon is a monster t
00:41:11 <HackEso> 2/2:hat you keep in your pocket. Taneb invented them.
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01:03:45 <impomatic> Hmmm... so apparently John von Neumann wrote "life is a process which can be abstracted away from any particular medium" but I can't find out where. Articles which quote him don't cite the source and I can't find any examples of it being quoted before 1997.
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02:23:48 <HackEso> Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb.
02:23:54 <HackEso> Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb.
02:24:15 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/progres{,s}
02:24:43 <HackEso> adventure:You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
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02:43:36 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
02:43:44 <HackEso> chess:Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. \ insanity:Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entry. \ inverness:Inverness is a city in Scotland. The ring road isn't multiplicative. \
02:44:04 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 2,: not found
02:44:12 <HackEso> 2/3:. \ lorem ipsum:Business Internet the it China Product Product NATO \ madness:madness lies thataway. \ progress:Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. \ rules of wisdom:unless essential for the entry‘s humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before tha
02:44:59 <HackEso> 3/3:t, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
02:45:27 <shachaf> `mkx bin/sledp//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed "$value" "$key" ;
02:45:34 <HackEso> cd wisdom; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
02:46:15 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be legal.
02:46:16 <oerjan> very good naming scheme
02:46:32 <shachaf> You think I should've gone with sled? , Scheme-style?
02:46:53 <shachaf> `mkx bin/slwdp//cd wisdom; sledp "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
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02:47:42 <shachaf> `sledp bin/sledp//s#sed#echo "\$key//"; &#
02:47:42 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
02:47:47 <shachaf> `sled bin/sledp//s#sed#echo "\$key//"; &#
02:47:48 <HackEso> bin/sledp//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
02:47:50 <shachaf> `sledp bin/sledp//s#sed#echo "\$key//"; &#
02:47:50 <HackEso> bin/sledp// \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo "$key//"; echo "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
02:48:09 <shachaf> Someone who feels like it should reduce code dupliction.
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02:48:46 <shachaf> fizzie: i propose you set up a system for sending fshg CLs for code review twh
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02:56:33 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
02:56:52 <HackEso> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(awk 'END{print NR}' /hackenv/tmp/spout)"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
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02:57:39 <HackEso> https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/sled
02:58:02 <oerjan> that's not working is it.
02:58:12 <shachaf> you want hackeso.esolangs.org hth
02:58:33 <shachaf> (unfortunately that doesn't exist)
02:59:21 <shachaf> Hmm, I still have my old third-party editor.
02:59:30 <shachaf> But I guess it fetches from the wrong URLs too.
03:00:01 <shachaf> Anyway you can use any pastebin.
03:00:28 <oerjan> `sledp bin/sled//s,-i,$opts;1iopts="${1--i}"
03:00:28 <HackEso> bin/sled// \ /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 27: unterminated `s' command
03:00:38 <oerjan> `sledp bin/sled//s,-i,$opts,;1iopts="${1--i}"
03:00:38 <HackEso> bin/sled// \ opts="${1--i}" \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed $opts "$value" "$key" ;
03:01:41 <oerjan> hm there's something weird
03:01:45 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
03:01:59 <HackEso> bin/sled// \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
03:02:26 <HackEso> bin/sled//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
03:02:28 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe you can invent a versin that has 'n' in its name.
03:02:41 <shachaf> So it can print "Nosebud".
03:03:45 <HackEso> #!/bin/bash \ /bin/sed "$@" && if [[ $# == "3" && "/$1" == "/-i" ]]; then echo -n "$3//"; cat "$3"; fi
03:04:32 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
03:05:27 <oerjan> `sledp bin/sledp//s,;echo ,;echo -n ,
03:05:28 <HackEso> bin/sledp// \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
03:06:03 <oerjan> `sledp bin/sledp//s,; echo ,; echo -n ,
03:06:04 <HackEso> bin/sledp// \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo -n "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
03:06:12 <oerjan> `sled bin/sledp//s,; echo ,; echo -n ,
03:06:13 <HackEso> bin/sledp//[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo -n "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
03:06:32 <oerjan> unfortunately the hack in sed makes this harder.
03:06:48 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: type: se: not found
03:06:49 <HackEso> sed is /hackenv/bin/sed \ sed is /bin/sed
03:07:31 <oerjan> shachaf: no, that would create duplication
03:07:39 <oerjan> because sled *uses* that hack
03:08:56 <shachaf> Right, which it shouldn't.
03:09:23 <shachaf> If you want, bin/sed can call sled when it detects that boily is using it.
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03:12:51 <oerjan> that could be more brittle since it would mean the genuine /bin/sed invocation could be messed up
03:14:32 <oerjan> it still won't help to move it into sled.
03:14:48 <oerjan> the problem is that /bin/sed -i gives no output
03:16:50 <oerjan> while /bin/sed alone misses the key//
03:17:14 <shachaf> Well then, they do different things.
03:17:21 <shachaf> This much "duplication" is OK.
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03:18:50 <oerjan> oh hm it might work if sledp just didn't bother with the key//
03:19:46 <oerjan> `sledp bin/sled//s,-i,$opts,;1iopts="${2--i}"
03:19:46 <HackEso> bin/sled//opts="${2--i}" \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed $opts "$value" "$key" ;
03:20:06 <oerjan> `sled bin/sled//s,-i,$opts,;1iopts="${2--i}"
03:20:07 <HackEso> bin/sled//opts="${2--i}" \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed $opts "$value" "$key" ;
03:20:52 <HackEso> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; echo -n "$key//"; sed "$value" "$key" ;
03:21:24 <oerjan> `mkx bin/sledp//sled "$1" "--"
03:21:40 <oerjan> `sledp bin/sledp//s,e,a,
03:22:10 <shachaf> Maybe rename it to pled or something.
03:23:01 <oerjan> `` mb bin/sledp bin/pled
03:23:02 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: mb: command not found
03:23:07 <oerjan> `` mv bin/sledp bin/pled
03:23:15 <HackEso> cd wisdom; sledp "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
03:23:56 <oerjan> `mkx bin/plwd//cd wisdom; pled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
03:24:38 <oerjan> `plwd shaventions//s;$;, pled;
03:24:45 <oerjan> `plwd shavention//s;$;, pled;
03:24:46 <HackEso> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet., pled
03:25:35 <oerjan> `plwd shavention//s;sedlast;&/pled;
03:25:36 <HackEso> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast/pled, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
03:25:52 <oerjan> `slwd shavention//s;sedlast;&/pled;
03:25:54 <HackEso> shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast/pled, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
03:26:42 * shachaf considers inventing pedlast
03:27:17 <shachaf> the trouble with sedlast is the race condition
03:27:45 <shachaf> If only every mutating command printed out the revision id of the new revision.
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03:46:15 <imode> I got highlighted.
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04:40:47 <shachaf> oerjan: why doesn't shaventions say {s,p}led twh
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04:52:40 <HackEso> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast/pled, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
04:53:35 <oerjan> `pled shavention//s,sl,{s,p},;s,/pled,,
04:53:42 <oerjan> `plwd shavention//s,sl,{s,p},;s,/pled,,
04:53:42 <HackEso> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unexpected `}'
04:54:08 <oerjan> `plwd shavention//s,sl,{s,p}l,;s,/pled,,
04:54:09 <HackEso> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unexpected `}'
04:54:53 <oerjan> `` /bin/sed 's,sl,{s,p}l,;s,/pled,,' wisdom/shavention
04:54:53 <HackEso> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unexpected `}'
04:55:47 <oerjan> `plwd shavention//s.sl.{s,p}l.;s,/pled,,
04:55:47 <HackEso> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, {s,p}led/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
04:55:57 <oerjan> `slwd shavention//s.sl.{s,p}l.;s,/pled,,
04:55:59 <HackEso> shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, {s,p}led/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet.
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05:20:12 <shachaf> imo why not s{pore,pam,peek,port}
05:20:19 <shachaf> also what do those commands even do
05:20:29 <shachaf> whose bizarre naming system is this
05:22:46 <shachaf> also i was trying to come up with a good burma shavention poem but it's hard to make the meter work
05:22:53 <shachaf> someone else ought to do it
05:23:06 <shachaf> feel free to incorporate orthostatic hypotension
05:23:22 <shachaf> Did I ever mention the time a few months ago when I lost 30-40% of my blood and couldn't stand up?
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05:37:30 <HackEso> cat: bin/speek: No such file or directory
05:37:48 <oerjan> this shavention appears to be hypothetical
05:37:59 <HackEso> 9756:2016-11-22 <oerjän> rm bin/speek \ 8301:2016-06-03 <shachäf> mkx bin/speek//echo "$1" > /hackenv/tmp/spline; spam \ 8300:2016-06-03 <shachäf> mkx bin/speek//echo "$1" > /tmp/hackenv/spline; spam \ 8299:2016-06-03 <shachäf> mkx bin/speek//echo "$1" > /tmp/hackenv/spline
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07:16:45 <esowiki> [[Charm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54776&oldid=54669 * Aearnus * (+92) Added a Discord link
07:17:56 <esowiki> [[Charm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54777&oldid=54776 * Aearnus * (-12) Corrected the code example
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09:20:19 <fizzie> Yes, I didn't set `edit back up yet.
09:21:53 <shachaf> `slwd fizzie//s.prime minister.emperor.
09:21:55 <HackEso> fizzie//King Fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary emperor of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
09:22:01 <shachaf> Why is fizzie a canary, again?
09:26:49 <Taneb> Doesn't like mustard gas
09:27:34 <shachaf> Hmm, I also don't like mustard gas.
09:27:43 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
09:28:01 <shachaf> Taneb: Have you invented any discrete variants of special relativity?
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09:43:08 <wob_jonas> I'll just keep using perl instead of all those confusing commands
09:47:56 <HackEso> 1/2:785) <oklopol> my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday \ 1086) <Solain> im not a doctor when it comes to muscles \ 720) <Taneb> thank you verse I'm not quite innocent \ 196) <oklopol> ah yes, indeed, alan turing was gay and stupid \ 1249) <fizzie> I was watching a pair of otters, and somehow the name "Harry P. Otter" hasn't lef
09:48:33 <wob_jonas> izabera: I don't want to confuse *myself*
09:49:53 <shachaf> Are there that many commands?
09:50:03 <shachaf> There ought to be a list of commands in bin/ that are actually useful.
09:50:25 <wob_jonas> shachaf: well, I do use learn and slashlearn
09:50:36 <wob_jonas> just not those sed-based editing commands
09:50:49 <wob_jonas> shachaf: it doesn't seem proper to have a slash in a command name
09:50:50 <shachaf> Would you prefer if they were perl-based?
09:51:11 <wob_jonas> mind you, adding a preview feature is a step in a good direction
09:51:16 <wob_jonas> no preview is one reason why I'm not using them
09:51:25 <HackEso> eparloin posithloin pureholoin brailoin immentloin unbertyloin nlandloin inchloin numilletloin clcloin anoriumloin insloin mibiltapeloin minloin rrvloin 0x20loin floin smitateloin shacloin spaceloin
09:51:29 <wob_jonas> but the main reason is just that I don't want to have to remember all those commands
09:51:46 <shachaf> So adding a preview feature is a step in the wrong direction.
09:51:52 <wob_jonas> I also use doag and its kin but I should develop my own. I started at one point but got bored and gave up.
09:52:10 <shachaf> The trouble with your perl commands is that no one else understands them.
09:52:20 <wob_jonas> shachaf: but I show a preview, so they can see what happens
09:55:26 <wob_jonas> also, what do you not understand in `perl -le$==0,(1x$_)=~/^(|()1(?1)(?1)\2)$(?{$=++})^/,print$=for 0..13
09:56:28 <int-e> . o O ( Lies, statistics, and "in general [Facebook] collect[s] data on people who have not signed up for Facebook for security purposes". )
09:56:58 <int-e> I guess it's not, technically, a lie... because he's not saying that this is the sole purpose they collect the data for.
09:57:13 <fizzie> `fetch bin/edit https://hack.esolangs.org/get/bin/edit
09:57:14 <HackEso> 2018-04-12 10:57:14 URL:https://hack.esolangs.org/get/bin/edit [328/328] -> "bin/edit" [1]
09:57:18 <fizzie> It may or may not work.
09:57:32 <fizzie> @tell oerjan There's a non-zero probability `edit is usable again.
09:58:05 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/edit/bin/edit
09:59:15 <fizzie> Syncing with files in tmp/ won't work, because `url doesn't yet work for them either.
10:00:19 <fizzie> Setting it up is *mostly* just a matter of pointing nginx at the right directory, but I remember I set up something around content-type and maybe other extra headers to avoid some issues around serving user-generated content.
10:00:27 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/edit
10:03:44 <fizzie> I found a bit in the logs discussing "Risks of serving untrusted content under HTTP Content-Type: text/plain", but not really what I ended up going with.
10:04:51 <shachaf> just serve it from a different domain hth
10:04:56 <fizzie> At least the logs mention following symlinks needs to be disabled manually.
10:05:11 <fizzie> Yes, I guess it should be esolangsusercontent.com.
10:24:37 <wob_jonas> and there has to be an esolangcdn.com too, for serving non-user content that doesn't need the cookies in the requests. It's fashionable these days, to save on cookie headers. There might be some other reason too, but I haven't heard it yet. What does the "cdn" stand for anyway?
10:27:24 <shachaf> content delivery network hth
10:27:28 <shachaf> I guess that would be cdnh
10:30:55 <wob_jonas> Admittedly for a larger site it might be a convenient way to separate work to multiple servers such that there's fewer communication with the databases too.
10:31:54 <wob_jonas> The cookie might be the only part that matters if you only have one server.
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11:04:30 <wob_jonas> stop with that noise on the street already!
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11:48:50 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54778&oldid=54775 * Kamish * (+211) /* Introductions */
11:53:03 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54779 * Kamish * (+151) Created page with "Hi;-) I'm ''Kosty Kamishev'' from Russia, i'm 15 years old. I am interested in watching esoteric programming languages, I want to add my own languages."
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12:03:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54780&oldid=40908 * Kamish * (+184) /* How to create a page? */ new section
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12:05:11 <esowiki> [[Talk:Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54781&oldid=54780 * Kamish * (+62) /* How to create a page? */
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12:22:39 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54782&oldid=54779 * Kamish * (+1012)
12:24:30 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54783&oldid=54736 * Kamish * (+24) /* R */
12:26:53 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54784&oldid=54782 * Kamish * (+1) /* Hello World */
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12:51:41 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54785&oldid=54784 * Kamish * (+66)
12:55:31 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54786&oldid=54785 * Kamish * (-55)
12:58:17 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54787&oldid=54786 * Kamish * (+5)
12:59:05 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54788&oldid=54787 * Kamish * (+5)
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13:13:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kamish * uploaded "[[File:Rando.png]]": logo of esoteric language "RANDo"
13:14:32 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54790&oldid=54788 * Kamish * (+36)
13:15:19 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54791&oldid=54790 * Kamish * (+5)
13:15:40 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54792&oldid=54791 * Kamish * (+17)
13:16:08 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54793&oldid=54792 * Kamish * (-5)
13:16:26 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54794&oldid=54793 * Kamish * (+5)
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14:39:06 <wob_jonas> `ioccclist 2018-04-01 The winners of the 25th IOCCC have been announced. Congratulations! http://www.ioccc.org/2018/whowon.html We plan to publish source and annotations in the next 30 days.
14:39:07 <HackEso> ioccclist 2018-04-01 The winners of the 25th IOCCC have been announced. Congratulations! http://www.ioccc.org/2018/whowon.html We plan to publish source and annotations in the next 30 days.: b_jonas
14:39:44 <wob_jonas> Also, the organizers of the ICFP 2018 contest are announced. https://icfpcontest2018.github.io/ The ICFP Programming Contest 2018 is organized by Matthew Fluet and colleagues at the Rochester Institute of Technology.
14:39:44 <Taneb> Another IOCCC I never got round to entering
14:40:02 <wob_jonas> This was very fast judging, how did they do it?
14:40:16 <int-e> . o O ( no entries )
14:41:43 <wob_jonas> heh, after a perl entry, we have a python entry now?
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14:43:32 <alercah> or tending to cause inflation
14:43:50 <alercah> e.g. inflationary monetary policy
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15:08:51 <lambdabot> *** "inflationary" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
15:08:51 <lambdabot> adj 1: associated with or tending to cause increases in
15:08:51 <lambdabot> inflation; "inflationary prices" [ant: {deflationary}]
15:12:49 <int-e> @wn exponential growth
15:12:49 <lambdabot> Sorry, look up one word at a time please.
15:12:54 <lambdabot> *** "exponential" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
15:12:54 <lambdabot> adj 1: of or involving exponents; "exponential growth"
15:12:54 <lambdabot> n 1: a function in which an independent variable appears as an
15:12:54 <lambdabot> exponent [syn: {exponential}, {exponential function}]
15:15:29 <fizzie> Exponentiary, inflational.
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17:45:57 <Taneb> "The Solovay-Strassen test was of especial significance at the time it was proposed as no deterministic test for primality was then known, nor is one known at the time of this writing."
17:46:16 <Taneb> Does anyone know if there are any known deterministic primality tests?
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20:49:31 <HackEso> 676) <itidus21> the possession of diamonds by the bourgeois is more about establishing their bourgeoisness more than wanting a malleable metal <itidus21> oops i forgot i said diamonds instead of gold \ 1123) <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: golddfish breeding is kind of messed up sometimes. <Phantom_Hoover> it seems to consist mostly of "how much can we fu
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21:41:55 <fizzie> Aw. On nginx, if I turn autoindex on, even if disable_symlinks is also on, the file size shown in the generated index is the pointed-at file. I think I will need to keep autoindex off.
21:41:59 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/spout
21:42:57 <HackEso> 1/2:755) <itidus21> i have a simple view of reality that goes something like this.. once your sufficiently well tied up.. it doesn't make a difference if your enemy has a knife or a gun.. you're equally screwed \ 933) <Taneb> I'm a story about the prohibition of chocolate \ 498) <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = <fungot
21:42:58 <fungot> HackEso: great. can we go back to it this time. with my current one... its to make a bf function collection) easier to separate content from presentation
21:43:41 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
21:43:57 <HackEso> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
21:44:00 <lambdabot> CYUL 122100Z 15013KT 15SM SCT045 BKN060 OVC100 10/M01 A2974 RMK SC3SC4AS1 PRESFR SLP073 \ ENVA 122120Z 09010KT CAVOK 09/M08 Q1023 RMK WIND 670FT 15017KT \ ESSB 122120Z AUTO 06006KT 9999 NCD 02/M05
21:44:00 <lambdabot> Q1027 \ KOAK 122053Z 28015G18KT 10SM SCT060 15/06 A3031 RMK AO2 SLP264 T01500061 50006 \ PAMR 122053Z 31003KT 10SM CLR 10/M02 A2945 RMK AO2 SLP975 T01001022 50000
21:44:05 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot|otherbot|j-bot|esowiki)!
21:44:31 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|HackEso|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot|otherbot|j-bot|esowiki)!
21:44:51 <fizzie> That list is so historical.
21:44:52 <HackEso> King Fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary emperor of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
21:45:08 <shachaf> more like spoilsport fizzie
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21:46:59 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 1 wisdom/fizzie
21:47:00 <HackEso> fizzie is rumoured to be written in Funge-98.
21:47:31 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 4000 wisdom/fizzie
21:47:32 <HackEso> fizzie is the creator of Minecraft.
21:47:56 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 4500 wisdom/fizzie
21:47:57 <HackEso> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg
21:48:16 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg
21:48:52 <shachaf> the content-type for the raw file is unfortunately not right
21:49:41 <fizzie> It's up to hgweb, I think it also had some ideas about things.
21:49:44 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 10000 wisdom/fizzie
21:49:45 <HackEso> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
21:49:51 <fizzie> It's sent with "Content-Disposition: inline", anyway.
21:49:52 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 10000 wisdom/fizzie > wisdom/fizzie
21:50:41 <shachaf> I guess fizzie is legitimately sneaky so that's not so bad.
21:51:07 <lambdabot> dropFromEnd n xs = zipWith const xs (drop n xs)
21:51:09 <lambdabot> lazyReverse xs = go xs (reverse xs) where go (_:xs) ~(y:ys) = y : go xs ys; go [] ~[] = []
21:59:37 <HackEso> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
22:03:39 <int-e> . o O ( anonymized data and other voodoo )
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22:15:10 <impomatic> I can't find any source for this John von Neumann quote. I think it might be incorrectly attributed to him "life is a process which can be abstracted away from any particular medium".
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23:17:31 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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23:21:26 <boily> great! doing things to stuff with people!
23:21:48 <boily> (things being joyfully mangling Python code.)
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23:34:23 <boily> after probationary period, I think? it's shown somewhere on the web HR platform.
23:36:10 <quintopia> are you trying to build enterprise scale apps in python
23:39:13 <boily> java, python, and a whole slew of yaml.
23:39:23 <boily> kubernetes is fungotting awesome!
23:40:40 <alercah> boily: where is your new job?
23:44:23 <boily> hellorcah! https://lightspeedhq.com
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00:01:48 <quintopia> oh boily you might like this: https://www.quora.com/Can-Americans-understand-centimeters-meters-and-kilometers/answer/Tom-Robinson-110?share=f0735efc&srid=i3Gd
00:06:58 <fizzie> That reminds me, I need to move HackEso from being started in a regular shell session I have open in a terminal. Let's try to do that right now.
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01:52:45 <esowiki> [[Takeover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54795&oldid=54774 * Ais523 * (+1763) The point was the general technique, not the individual program; however, that's a pretty clever way to implement cat in particular. Perhaps we could do with reorganising this section to split the general technique from cat in particular.
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02:06:08 <esowiki> [[Talk:Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54796&oldid=54781 * Oerjan * (+434) /* How to create a page? */ At least two ways
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02:39:27 <oerjan> shachaf: you need to work faster on your botloops twh
02:39:54 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't think a HackEso/fungot botloop is possible.
02:39:55 <fungot> shachaf: emacs of course. anyway, the buffer is there to pick /any/ name other than brevity?
02:40:08 <lambdabot> fizzie said 16h 42m 36s ago: There's a non-zero probability `edit is usable again.
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03:10:04 <HackEso> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia myname int-e
03:11:03 <shachaf> ask not, that ye be not asked
03:11:07 <oerjan> @tell impomatic Added a citation needed to Wikipedia:Artificial life. reason=There seems to be no original source for this quote, and in fact if you restrict a web search to pages that don't contain the phrase artificial life, there are only a handful left
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05:10:38 <zzo38> I think maybe SQLite should support a GROUP BY clause in a CREATE TABLE or CREATE INDEX statement so that if your program is working with only a subset of the data and switches between different groups infrequently that the query optimizer will automatically know that, and deal with it properly, and perhaps force to use separate database pages for different groups. But, I am unsure.
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06:40:31 <zzo38> I wrote partially the document for the format of the .heromeshrc file which contains the settings for Free Hero Mesh. Why do many programs use such a file name for the setting file with "rc" at the end? What does "rc" stand for?
06:58:38 <shachaf> "run commands", according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_commands
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07:23:53 <singingbanana> Hello! Im back from a holiday in Bulgaria. In Bulgaria, I met an amazing guy, John Found. He wrote an assembler-like CMS in assembly, he wrote an assembly-language IDE in assembly, and wrote a BBS in assembly. Also, his whole website is written in assembly!
07:26:56 <singingbanana> His favourite assembly language is FASM, in which he implemented his CMS and the IDE. I have to say, writing a website in assembly is so... Esoteric? If you dont believe me: asm32.net is his website. It looks pretty good for a website written in assembly.
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07:29:06 <shachaf> That makes sense, but what language does he write in?
07:30:10 <singingbanana> His job is written web apps in assembly for a large production company that makes freezers
07:32:16 <singingbanana> His CMS is a assmebly language, Minimagasm, made by himself. NB. John Found is just his pseudonym.
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07:35:15 <singingbanana> My cat is on the keyboard, except some gibberish...
07:35:35 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
07:36:24 <oerjan> i think that was considered to obvious to explain
07:37:24 <HackEso> 3573:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> echo Cats are cool, but should be illegal. > wisdom/cat
07:37:29 <singingbanana> In Bulgaria, i found a Lindt shop and bought a Kilo of Lindor's.
07:38:18 <lambdabot> *** "banana" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:38:18 <lambdabot> n 1: any of several tropical and subtropical treelike herbs of
07:38:18 <lambdabot> the genus Musa having a terminal crown of large entire
07:38:18 <lambdabot> leaves and usually bearing hanging clusters of elongated
07:38:20 <lambdabot> fruits [syn: {banana}, {banana tree}]
07:38:22 <lambdabot> 2: elongated crescent-shaped yellow fruit with soft sweet flesh
07:38:32 <lambdabot> *** "cat" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:38:32 <lambdabot> n 1: feline mammal usually having thick soft fur and no ability
07:38:32 <lambdabot> to roar: domestic cats; wildcats [syn: {cat}, {true cat}]
07:38:32 <lambdabot> 2: an informal term for a youth or man; "a nice guy"; "the guy's
07:38:46 <lambdabot> only doing it for some doll" [syn: {guy}, {cat}, {hombre},
07:38:46 <lambdabot> 3: a spiteful woman gossip; "what a cat she is!"
07:38:46 <lambdabot> 4: the leaves of the shrub Catha edulis which are chewed like
07:38:46 <lambdabot> tobacco or used to make tea; has the effect of a euphoric
07:39:02 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list
07:41:41 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dwt: not found
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07:44:28 <singingbanana> What is amazing, John Found managed to make emoji in assembly!
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07:45:24 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl msg list let id do bf ask @ ? .
07:45:48 <shachaf> Does his assembly web server support status code 404?
07:47:43 <shachaf> oerjan: Recetly I punned without noticing it, but it wasn't on IRC. Does that count?
07:52:27 <singingbanana> Also, I cant figure out how to use Alfie-2 OR Alfie-3(they are the first Presumption-based languages IN THE WORLD!!)
07:57:01 <singingbanana> @bf ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.
07:57:18 <singingbanana> @bf >++++++++[-<+++++++++>]<.>>+>-[+]++>++>+++[>[->+++<<+++>]<<]>-----.>->
07:57:20 <singingbanana> +++..+++.>-.<<+[>[+>+]>>]<--------------.>>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+.
08:06:27 <singingbanana> I just got a issue of the Russian maths&physics journal Quantik. In it, the Parando paradox was explained. My question: is it possible with programming languages?
08:10:44 <singingbanana> Like, have esolang 1, which has same syntax as esolang 2, and count your 'profit'?
08:16:08 <singingbanana> But how? A profit-based language? The output is profit from running esolang 1 v. esolang 2. And you like, well.... I dont know... OK, a better model is a language operating on currency exchanges... I dont know... Errr...I have to think about it....
08:20:00 <singingbanana> Ive got it! I'll write an essay on it! Usage of currency exchange model to portray a computing environment found in nature itself.
08:21:41 <singingbanana> I can compile it into a graph! Show how to make profit!
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08:35:06 <singingbanana> Look at equation 2a = 1b, 1b = 2c, 2c=3a. Obviously, 2a = 2c. 2c = 3a. In a equation in maths, thats wrong. Thats impossible. But hey! Profit! Go from a to b to c in a car, and slowly, profit will appear! Let imagine A-lands currency is a Baton, B-lands is a Asded, & C-lands is the Quirky. 2 Batons is 1 Asded, 1 Asded is 2 Quirky. 2 Quirky is 3 Baton. You have 1 Baton per voyage profit(1 Quirky profit)!
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08:44:09 <singingbanana> According to Google, £1 is $1.43. $1.43 is Japanese Yen 153.84. 153.84 Yen is £1. Exactly. But, of course! They regulate their markets! 153.84 Yen in Botswanan Pula is 13.74. Pula to pound = 1 pound. But that is idealized! On a actual markey, youll get either some profit or some loss.
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09:34:33 <singingbanana> That means Step1 goes to step2, but if you had, for example 43 cells in State1, you will have 41 is step2, as 43-2 is 41(diff 2)
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09:40:50 <singingbanana> As you can see the currency exchange model is VERY useful.
09:50:16 <singingbanana> State1 -> State2(addiff 3, splitrate diff 2) State 1 transfers to state 2, but 2 extra cells appear, and the split rate, the amount of descendents of that generation per round, decreases by 2. This example introduces concepts in nature. I think a new ALPACA can be created using this. It shall be called ALADECESY: A LAnguage DEfining CEllular SYstems. It will be prouncced like: ALADA-SEE-WHY.( If I will ever finish
09:50:18 <singingbanana> g it). If you really want to, pronounce it "I'd like to see why".
09:54:27 <singingbanana> Only problem with ALADECESY is: how do you define a neighbourhood.
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10:19:39 <singingbanana> I have a idea! Lets take a cat program: Input=Output. Lets place restrictions: The only string which cant be in cat is cat. Input=Output, unless Input == cat|CAT|Cat|CaT|CAt|caT. Next, we say
10:20:09 <singingbanana> that is if have print in output, I output the integer input+1.
10:20:59 <singingbanana> The point is, any interpreter/compiler is just a cat program with extensions. QED.
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10:45:51 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: re Wang tiles, look up "Wang, Hao" in Knuth TAOCP volume 1
10:47:05 <singingbanana> wob_jonas:Unfortuantely, I dont have Donald Knuths The Art Of Computer Programming. I wont it..
10:47:41 <singingbanana> My Grandad has one, but he lives a continent away.
10:50:24 <wob_jonas> you should buy TAOCP, it's great. or use a library copy until that.
10:51:28 <singingbanana> I know, TAOCP is great. Our library, the Exeter Library doesnt have a copy.
10:52:26 <singingbanana> I read TAOCP 2, about sorting algorithms. It was amazing!
10:52:44 <Taneb> TAOCP is one of the books I keep at my desk at work
10:52:57 <wob_jonas> that sucks. I know there are a lot of places in country with no libraries, even places that count as a town (as opposed to a village), and a lot of disadvantaged children grow up in such places. it sucks.
10:52:59 <Taneb> Although my shelf is now too full...
10:53:15 <wob_jonas> Taneb: now I'm interested. what other books?
10:53:25 <Taneb> wob_jonas: a whole bunch
10:54:01 <Taneb> Introduction to Languages and the Theory of Computation, Parallel and COncurrent Programming in Haskell, Homotopy Type Theory, Programming in Haskell, Purely Functional Data Structures, and An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers
10:54:21 <Taneb> And to that I want to add Quantum Computing and Quantum Information
10:54:35 <fizzie> There's a very ad-hoc library here at work, in the sense that there's a room with a bunch of desks to sit at and one wall of bookshelves, but I've no idea where the books come from, or if there's a list of them anywhere.
10:54:54 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Millions of pounds where spend on the Library, and the only book about programming in the library is Java on Android.
10:55:41 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: yes, and the problem is that libraries are so expensive to maintain that they responsibly spend all their budget to guard the existing old books than to buy new ones
10:56:12 <Taneb> singingbanana: is this a university library? Can you travel to a different university and use theirs?
10:56:54 <Taneb> See if they have it available to interlend?
10:57:47 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: sadly your case is typical. you can try to get some inter-library loans in your town library, but it still sucks. but you can be looking forward that it will almost certainly improve if you go to college
10:57:50 <singingbanana> Exeter Uni only focuses only on Islamic studies and LINGUISTICS.
10:58:05 <wob_jonas> Taneb: "interlend"? that's a word? nice
10:58:57 <singingbanana> I cant wait till Grammar school. They have 2 shelves of CS books...
10:59:35 <wob_jonas> "Introduction to languages and the theory of computation" => apparently this is a book by John C. Martin. Should I be checking it out if I can?
11:00:01 <Taneb> wob_jonas: it's good if you want the theory behind FSA and turing machines and context-free grammars and whatnot
11:00:03 <singingbanana> For people outside the UK: A grammar school is a goverment-sponsored selective high school.
11:00:47 <wob_jonas> Taneb: I've read the Hopcroft-Ullman book with a similar title for that
11:00:57 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I've got a few books at my parents' house I want to get here, too, but that's at the other end of the country
11:01:00 <wob_jonas> that's where I read the proof for the two-counter machine
11:01:04 <wob_jonas> still, it might be worth to check out
11:01:21 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I don't know those authors... this was the one my computability course at uni recommended
11:01:51 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: what's written by André Maurois?
11:02:22 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: "Introduction to languages and theory of computation"
11:02:30 <wob_jonas> Taneb: does 3rd edition from 2003 versus older edition from 1991 matter?
11:02:58 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: that must be a different book then. Taneb: are you talking about the book by John C. Martin, or by André Maurois, or a third one?
11:03:15 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I wouldn't know, I'm afraid
11:03:20 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I've got the 4th edition
11:03:30 <Taneb> (yes, the John C. Martin one)
11:05:14 <singingbanana> An Introduction to Formal Language Theory By Robert N. Moll, Michael A. Arbib, A.J. Kfoury IS AMAZING. I only read it on Google Books though :(
11:05:33 <Taneb> I'm currently working through Quantum Computation and Quantum Information
11:05:50 <Taneb> I regret not studying it harder when I was at uni
11:06:23 <singingbanana> Taneb: I imagine its hard. Im going to read Linux Format in May. They will explain Quantum computing.
11:06:30 <Taneb> Because I really started enjoying it near the end
11:11:04 <wob_jonas> ok, so which "An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers"? apparently that's a popular title too, several authors have used it
11:12:18 <Taneb> wob_jonas: Hardy and Wright, 6th edition
11:12:50 <Taneb> singingbanana: yes
11:13:29 <Taneb> I work as me, a software developer for a small company in Cambridge
11:14:18 <Taneb> As a company, we get neural networks running on FPGAs
11:14:41 <wob_jonas> oh! I think you mentioned that. that sounds scary.
11:14:51 <singingbanana> My dad taught me that! Do you use look-up tables to like...
11:14:51 <Taneb> Using a custom compiler from a high-level description
11:15:08 <Taneb> This is why I don't have any books on FPGAs, neural networks, or compiling ;P
11:16:29 <singingbanana> Taneb:Because when I do that, I write it using a State-machine thing into a look-up table on m Xilinx Spartan.
11:18:53 <Taneb> That's certainly one way, but not the only way, to do it
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11:22:16 <Taneb> singingbanana: we use http://www.clash-lang.org/ which you might be interested in
11:22:28 <Taneb> It's a Haskell dialect that compiles to VHDL or Verilog
11:22:50 <singingbanana> Taneb: Thank you! That's why you have Haskell books...
11:23:22 <Taneb> I have Haskell books because I like Haskell :P
11:23:31 <Taneb> Programming in Haskell is even signed by the author
11:25:11 <singingbanana> Im learning Haskell cause I have to. I got into esolangs after designing a new language for testing algorithms: Exeter. Its Function-based, not esoteric, but I got a link to here.
11:26:06 <singingbanana> Exeter is not implemented. And it isnt meant to be. wob-jonas: Yes, Exeter is the Capital of Devon
11:26:28 <Taneb> Esolangs are what got me into programmign
11:27:29 <singingbanana> Exeter is meant to ease translating pseudo-code to real programming languages.
11:30:35 <singingbanana> Ive been making them since I was 7. My dad asked me "What is programming?"(He just wanted to test me). I said "Its when you mobve a turtle on a screen". My dad shoked me by saying someone made Windows OS. Then, by accident I reivented Brainf*ck.
11:31:49 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Ohhh! I was there on holiday last year. Who do you work as/
11:32:27 <HackEso> aglist 585: b_jonas shachaf
11:32:48 <wob_jonas> I'm currently looking for work. My previous work was as a research-developer in a CS company, mostly doing image processing stuff
11:32:52 <HackEso> aglist is update notification for the Abstruse Goose webcomic. http://abstrusegoose.com/
11:34:27 <wob_jonas> we were developing stupid approximation solutions for impossible specialized image recognition problems that is
11:34:40 <Taneb> singingbanana: 2009 or so
11:35:08 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Oh. My dad worked in a companylike that. Only they made stupid genetic technology.
11:35:40 <singingbanana> They didnt pay him for 2 months! Then the company went bust,
11:36:50 <singingbanana> You know the Skripal case? Yesterday, I drove through Salisbury and police is evrywhere.
11:39:17 <singingbanana> So sad... Im sort of Russian, and my teacher was making jokes about the stuff in school.
11:39:50 <wob_jonas> we have a bunch of these notification lists. most of them are inactive, but olist and pbflist and ysaclist get occasional hits. you can subscribe to almost any of them by appending your name
11:40:54 <Taneb> My favourites of mine are Fueue, COMPLEX, and Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
11:41:20 <wob_jonas> I don't usually make esolangs, but a certain vaporvare provisionally called "Consumer society" that I'm going to eventually make is currently my fav.
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11:45:48 <singingbanana> In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure dome decree
11:48:31 <singingbanana> So twice five miles of fertile land with walls and towers girdled round
11:49:46 <singingbanana> Kubla Khan is my favourite poem because it is feautured in Douglas Adams!
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11:56:36 <singingbanana> Taneb: I like your Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download language. It might be my alltime favourite
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11:58:20 <wob_jonas> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is sort of a meme in esoteric because it has such a good name and the name was inspired by a spambot
11:59:27 <wob_jonas> I don't know where that's documented other than the channel logs
12:00:15 <wob_jonas> basically there's a movie called "Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster", and a spambot posted a page on the esolang wiki with this title where presumably it advertised some malware trying to make people think they can download the new movie really fast
12:00:15 <singingbanana> I image: All go to #dumbstuff to get a free vist to Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEE
12:00:41 <wob_jonas> and then someone saw the page and thought the title was too good to delete, and made an esolang out of it
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12:01:44 <singingbanana> I knew that the name was not just a random STRING!
12:01:59 <wob_jonas> maybe someone just invented this story together with the name
12:02:19 <wob_jonas> it's hard to believe because most malware says "Full Movie" or "HD" instead of "Real Fast", but still
12:02:33 <wob_jonas> maybe the spam was different back in those days
12:05:04 <singingbanana> Spam is still wierd these days: "Instool Adobee Flashlight Player at bkukzhf;zakjfbiu.adobe.'
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12:08:42 <wob_jonas> spam is targeting everything, especially websites that use stock software
12:09:20 <wob_jonas> in this case it uses mediawiki, so the spammers can reuse their mediawiki spam scripts on most mediawiki sites out there that used to have free registration
12:09:56 <wob_jonas> although there are some rumors that some of the spam on esolang is a bit smarter than that, and specific to esolangs
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12:29:31 <HackEso> 13) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
12:29:33 <HackEso> 387) <augur> ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently <Phantom_Hoover> So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex?
12:44:44 <HackEso> 1008) <fizzie> ... <fizzie> I was thinking maybe octave's fact() function is the factorial. <fizzie> octave:1> fact(20) <fizzie> Richad Stallman's pinky finger is really a USB memory stick. <fizzie> I don't think that's 20!.
12:44:45 <HackEso> ggs, and sift \ mixture. Set aside. Bake at 350, blend the apples and sugar and then add the \ celery; beat wells in a mixing bowl. Meanwhile, in a large skillet, knead \ in middle of the dressing. Refrigerate with the cookie cutter and liquid. Fold \ into two lid on the batter. The mustard and with a little potatoes and \ freeze the cooked th
12:48:49 <HackEso> Serpent Assassin \ 3BB \ Creature -- Snake Assassin \ 2/2 \ When Serpent Assassin enters the battlefield, you may destroy target nonblack creature. \ P1-R
12:48:52 <HackEso> Chief Jawa \ Oola \ Cliegg Lars \ Watto \ Jango Fett
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12:59:19 <singingbanana> Really? I dont see spam on wikipedia, maybe because there is more articles.
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13:02:54 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: there's a lot of spam on wikipedia, but the editors remove them quickly
13:03:05 <wob_jonas> most of them. some stays there for years.
13:04:37 <wob_jonas> ais's new registration filter manages to filter out most of it now
13:06:16 <singingbanana> Good! What about HQ9++fan and other spammers. You can't just immediately find out that they are here for bad.
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13:13:43 <singingbanana> I was reading a fascinating PhD thesis recently. About Cellular systems & Genetic programming
13:15:06 <wob_jonas> fungot, have you read a fascinating book lately?
13:15:07 <fungot> wob_jonas: i found a compositional way to integrate that with extensible event dispatch model which is designed be a lang that will compile and run time respectively, but the
13:15:41 <fungot> singingbanana: but he's saying that lat can either be a lot easier. i wouldn't use those, but only one updated at any repetition of the loop ( i.e., to make people type out " function"
13:15:46 <fungot> wob_jonas: except i was wrong when i re-read it seconds later.
13:16:32 <singingbanana> fungot, can you make a lisp interpreter with S-expression parsing?
13:16:33 <fungot> singingbanana: because i need the unicode, though. :) her dissertation appears to be swearing in perl.
13:16:40 <fungot> wob_jonas: 3 greasemonkey: daemon idle1 bf8. that'd provide the missing incentive. i wonder if there's anything interesting either
13:16:59 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: I have one of those. really stupid and minimal though.
13:17:35 <wob_jonas> a lisp interpreter with S-expression parsing
13:18:23 <fungot> singingbanana: i seem to recall that many schemes use a format whose first argument is that, if taken when building bridges and buildings, would allow you to protect the fnord. my os idea.
13:18:47 <fungot> singingbanana: that one's beautiful. lambda using the lambda, the continuation in ( 1 ( f ( g) ( else f)
13:19:17 <fungot> singingbanana: yes, you can say +clisp, for example
13:20:02 <Taneb> Which style is fungot using?
13:20:02 <fungot> Taneb: haskell programming is just a plain file
13:20:09 <Taneb> Ah, the Haskell programming style
13:20:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
13:20:25 <singingbanana> fungot: In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree
13:20:25 <fungot> singingbanana: i think so.
13:21:37 <fungot> singingbanana: you think i'm joking, son. now bend down."
13:22:07 <fungot> singingbanana: though i'm not 100 per cent correct. using read for client data is about as useful as would be a good idea, welcome newton
13:23:54 <fungot> singingbanana: i feel pretty dumb without a repl) is between 1.5 and 2 times, respectively.
13:26:21 <HackEso> Bareword found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "** e" \ (Missing operator before e?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "** e \ " \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
13:26:41 <HackEso> Can't open perl script "3.14*8": No such file or directory
13:30:13 <HackEso> \ Usage: perl [switches] [--] [programfile] [arguments] \ -0[octal] specify record separator (\0, if no argument) \ -a autosplit mode with -n or -p (splits $_ into @F) \ -C[number/list] enables the listed Unicode features \ -c check syntax only (runs BEGIN and CHECK blocks) \ -d[:debugger] r
13:34:14 <HackEso> A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age.
13:34:42 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
13:38:03 <HackEso> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:38:20 <HackEso> wisdom/olsner:olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric. \ wisdom/#programming:No such channel. See `? #esoteric \ wisdom/porthello:Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner. \ wisdom/`!:`! is a comma
13:38:34 <HackEso> wisdom/olsner \ wisdom/#programming \ wisdom/porthello \ wisdom/`! \ wisdom/the usual suspect \ wisdom/newbie of the month \ wisdom/#esoteric-blah \ wisdom/esoterra \ wisdom/cpressey \ wisdom/extreme ironing \ wisdom/usual suspect \ wisdom/esoteric \ wisdom/ꙮ \ wisdom/welcome.sv \ wisdom/welcome.is \ wisdom/welcome.nb \ wisdom/pronounceable c \ w
13:38:46 <HackEso> Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as Esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
13:38:51 <HackEso> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
13:38:55 <HackEso> #esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
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13:39:01 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +10
13:39:02 <HackEso> wisdom/extreme ironing \ wisdom/usual suspect \ wisdom/esoteric \ wisdom/ꙮ \ wisdom/welcome.sv \ wisdom/welcome.is \ wisdom/welcome.nb \ wisdom/pronounceable c \ wisdom/welcome.de \ wisdom/oren \ wisdom/font \ wisdom/ops \ wisdom/esoteric files archive \ wisdom/welcome.fr \ wisdom/stephen wolfram \ wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/wiki
13:39:10 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +25
13:39:10 <HackEso> wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/wiki \ wisdom/wegian \ wisdom/welcome.fi \ wisdom/canaima \ wisdom/fizzie \ wisdom/swatter \ wisdom/advertisement \ wisdom/welcome.es \ wisdom/bfjoust \ wisdom/welcome.eo \ wisdom/welcome.nl \ wisdom/welcome.ja \ wisdom/mesolang \ wisdom/furryscript \ wisdom/glados \ wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdom/
13:39:18 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +40
13:39:19 <HackEso> wisdom/furryscript \ wisdom/glados \ wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdom/`revert \ wisdom/blæg \ wisdom/solidity \ wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/esosc \ wisdom/locale \ wisdom/wolfram \ wisdom/entrymsg \ wisdom/welcome.tr \ wisdom/warrigal \ wisdom/member \ wisdom/the question
13:39:23 <HackEso> A mesolang is a mediocre esolang. rdococ discovered them.
13:39:34 <HackEso> There are 3.99 usual suspects in #esoteric, but they're usually rounded up.
13:39:43 <HackEso> No such channel. See `? #esoteric
13:39:50 <HackEso> ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
13:40:06 <HackEso> The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles.
13:40:10 <HackEso> In a cruel twist of fate, vanila has come to #esoteric in search of wisdom.
13:40:16 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
13:40:28 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +55
13:40:37 <HackEso> Blæg is a color that cannot exist under the current understanding of physics. It is used on the #esoteric flag, along with ultraviolet and whatever is convenient. It is a nullary color, meaning that it can be mixed with itself to produce the primary colors.
13:40:44 <HackEso> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
13:41:05 <HackEso> The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master.
13:41:18 <HackEso> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
13:41:29 <HackEso> secret handshake? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:42:00 <singingbanana> True!!!!!!!! 100% (About Wolfram) Plus, he is aggressive!
13:42:29 <HackEso> The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master.
13:42:52 <HackEso> ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>
13:44:16 <HackEso> Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur EFnet aŭ DALnet.)
13:45:25 <HackEso> Ezoterik programlama dili tasarım ve dağıtım için uluslararası merkezi hoş geldiniz! <http://esolangs.org/>: Daha fazla bilgi için, bizim wiki göz atın. (Esoterica diğer tür için, irc.dal.net üzerinde #esoteric deneyin.)
13:45:43 <HackEso> Hello, and again, welcome to the Aperture Science Computer Aided Internet Relay Chat & Enrichment Center. Please enjoy your stay at #esoteric, because you will never leave.
13:49:35 <wob_jonas> most of the welcomes also have commands in bin, eg. `velkommen
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13:50:59 <HackEso> Hei og velkommen til det internasjonale knutepunktet for esoterisk programmeringsspråkdesign og -utrulling! For mer informasjon, se wikien vår: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For den andre typen esoterisme, prøv #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.)
13:51:41 -!- sprocklem has joined.
13:51:43 <HackEso> welcome welcome.bork welcome.de welcome.eo welcome.es welcome.fi welcome.fr welcome.is welcome.ja welcome.nb welcome.nl welcome.sv welcome.tr
13:52:00 <wob_jonas> not yet. you can create one if you want.
13:52:27 <HackEso> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
13:53:46 <wob_jonas> so like `le/rn welcome.ru/something
13:54:06 <wob_jonas> since the other welcome wisdoms are named like "welcome." followed by a language code
13:54:24 <wob_jonas> then look at bin/velkommen and create an executable based on that one I guess
13:54:24 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:54:48 <wob_jonas> most of them are straight translations of the original welcome
13:54:54 <HackEso> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.nb"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.nb"; }
13:55:35 <HackEso> 9741:2016-11-20 <wob_jonäs> `` x=bin/velkommen; >$x sed s/\\.fr/\\.nb/g bin/bienvenue && chmod -v +x "$x" \ 9740:2016-11-20 <wob_jonäs> `` x=bin/velkommen; >$x sed s/\\.fr/\\.no/g bin/bienvenue && chmod -v +x "$x"
13:55:57 <HackEso> 9739:2016-11-20 <wob_jonäs> `` x=bin/v\xc3\xa4lkommen; >$x sed s/\\.fr/\\.sv/g bin/bienvenue && chmod -v +x "$x"
13:56:04 <wob_jonas> there's got to be one I haven't made
13:56:10 <HackEso> 6019:2015-09-16 <oerjän> ` cp bin/{bienvenido,bienvenue}; sed -i \'s/\\.es/.fr/g\' bin/bienvenue
13:56:21 <HackEso> 3409:2013-08-09 <oerjän> sed \'s/welcome/welcome.es/g\' bin/welcome > bin/bienvenido; chmod +x bin/bienvenido \ 3408:2013-08-09 <oerjän> sed \'s/welcome/welcome.es/\' bin/welcome > bin/bienvenido; chmod +x bin/bienvenido
13:56:25 <HackEso> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.es"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.es"; }
13:56:28 <HackEso> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.fr"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.fr"; }
13:56:30 <HackEso> nyfB#iQnHV(zP^Y*(e"s*gwԓvSŮTyh_ءA//Tʞ3|o"ID
13:56:59 <wob_jonas> and they're earlier than bin/velkommen
13:58:19 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: then write the translation and create the wisdom and then bother other people hoping they'll create the executable
13:58:36 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:58:44 <HackEso> singingbanana: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:58:52 <HackEso> singingbanana: Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur EFnet ou DALnet.)
13:59:07 <wob_jonas> and then there are the rainbow and unicorn versions...
13:59:18 <HackEso> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: <hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/>. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On eFnEt oR DaLnEt.)
13:59:25 <HackEso> WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: <HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/>. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON EFNET OR DALNET.)
13:59:33 <HackEso> (.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW
14:00:58 <singingbanana> le/rn welcome.ru/Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoter
14:02:51 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru/Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esote
14:02:52 <HackEso> /hackenv/le/rn: line 6: $(echo-p "wisdom/$key"): File name too long
14:04:43 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru / Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #eso
14:04:44 <HackEso> /hackenv/le/rn: line 6: $(echo-p "wisdom/$key"): File name too long
14:05:40 <wob_jonas> `le/rn WNr1VyFtqENzl/WNr1VyFtqENzl is a test wisdom to check if the g->s transition has broken a certain wisdom-creating scrit
14:05:41 <HackEso> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
14:05:49 <wob_jonas> `le/rn WNr1VyFtqENzl//WNr1VyFtqENzl is a test wisdom to check if the g->s transition has broken a certain wisdom-creating scrit
14:05:51 <HackEso> Learned 'wnr1vyftqenzl': WNr1VyFtqENzl is a test wisdom to check if the g->s transition has broken a certain wisdom-creating scrit
14:06:07 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: sorry, try with a double slash instead of a single slash
14:06:38 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru//Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esot
14:06:39 <HackEso> /hackenv/le/rn: line 6: $(echo-p "wisdom/$key"): Is a directory
14:07:43 <wob_jonas> I'll create it manually in the meanwhile
14:08:06 <wob_jonas> ``` >wisdom/welcome.ru echo 'Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>.'
14:08:06 <HackEso> bash: wisdom/welcome.ru: Is a directory
14:08:19 <wob_jonas> the botched remain of the previous try
14:08:23 <HackEso> olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric.
14:08:48 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru//Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esot
14:08:50 <HackEso> Learned 'welcome.ru': Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для
14:09:04 <wob_jonas> it's almost good, but its end is truncated
14:09:08 <HackEso> Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого ти
14:09:11 <wob_jonas> what's the end of the message supposed to be?
14:09:31 <singingbanana> другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
14:09:33 <wob_jonas> no worries, the learn just doesn't fit in one irc message, so we have to combine it from multiple commands
14:11:30 <singingbanana> Oh, also I put International center instead of international millenium. Is that OK?
14:13:32 <HackEso> Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого ти
14:13:44 <wob_jonas> should be fine now I hope, although it's longer than an irc line
14:14:01 -!- FireFly has joined.
14:14:05 <HackEso> Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого ти
14:14:20 <singingbanana> the другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.) is not there
14:14:40 <wob_jonas> it is there in the wisdom, it just doesn't fit an irc line
14:14:59 <wob_jonas> I dunno what we should do about that
14:15:19 <wob_jonas> I mean, I can print it, but we won't be able to get a hackeso command that prints all of it
14:15:33 <wob_jonas> what's the precedent for this? isn't relcome also too long?
14:16:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:16:21 <wob_jonas> shachaf: what do we do if the localized welcome message doesn't fit in an irc line?
14:17:02 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: the welcome message says "hub", it's only the topic that says "millenium" right now
14:17:04 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:22:39 <wob_jonas> who and names, but most irc clients do that on their own
14:22:42 -!- Gregor has joined.
14:22:59 <wob_jonas> in fact the irc server sends you names replies when you join a channel
14:23:17 <wob_jonas> so if you just want the list of nicks joined, you don't have to query anything, just follow what the irc server tells you
14:23:45 <wob_jonas> we can just bug shachaf or fizzie when they're summoned
14:26:00 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: they'll come, don't worry. you get what you pay for. you haven't payed for fast reaction times over the clock.
14:27:43 <HackEso> (.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW
14:28:17 -!- imode has joined.
14:29:24 <HackEso> Wlcm t th ntrntnl hb fr strc prgrmmng lngg dsgn nd dplymnt! Fr mr nfrmtn, chck t r wk: <http://slngs.rg/>. (Fr th thr knd f strc, try #strc n EFnt r DALnt.)
14:29:26 <HackEso> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： <http://esolangs.org/>。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
14:29:40 <HackEso> Welcome To The International Hub For Esoteric Programming Language Design And Deployment! For More Information, Check Out Our Wiki: <Http://Esolangs.Org/>. (For The Other Kind Of Esoterica, Try #Esoteric On EFnet Or DALnet.)
14:29:55 <HackEso> Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: <uggc://rfbynatf.bet/>. (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba RSarg be QNYarg.)
14:30:48 <HackEso> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: <http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/>. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.)
14:31:28 <wob_jonas> and there's the eye-burning relcome, and
14:31:37 <HackEso> bash: bin/.welcome: No such file or directory
14:31:41 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:31:49 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:32:39 <HackEso> Velcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our viki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:34:15 <wob_jonas> ``` bin/?*w?*e?*l*c*o*m?*e* # there's also this synonym for welcome but I can't type its real name
14:34:16 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:37:22 <singingbanana> Welcome Wo Wehe Winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! Wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp://wesolangs.worg/> (Wufor Wuthe wother Wukinds wof wesoterica, wutry #wesoteric won WEFnet wor WUDALnet)
14:37:28 <wob_jonas> ``` $'bin/\x0304w\x0308e\x0309l\x0311c\x0312o\x0313m\x0304e\x0F' # that's its actual name
14:37:29 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:38:42 <singingbanana> `le//rn welcome.wu/Welcome Wo Wehe Winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! Wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp://wesolangs.worg/> (Wufor Wuthe wother Wukinds wof wesoterica, wutry #wesoteric won WEFnet wor WUDALnet)
14:38:44 <HackEso> Learned 'welcome.wu/welcome wo wehe winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp:': wesolangs.worg/> (Wufor Wuthe wother Wukinds wof wesoterica, wutry #wesoteric won WEFnet wor WUDALnet)
14:39:05 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.wu: not found
14:39:20 <wob_jonas> those silly versions don't need a wisdom
14:39:41 <wob_jonas> they're present only as executables, and usually dynamic ones that translate the text of welcome
14:40:55 <HackEso> rm: cannot remove 'wisdom/welcome.wu': Is a directory
14:41:01 -!- lynn has joined.
14:41:30 <HackEso> removed 'wisdom/welcome.wu/welcome wo wehe winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp:' \ removed directory 'wisdom/welcome.wu/'
14:44:09 <singingbanana> No! A property can be assigned using //. Like this: Hello//Hello world
14:46:20 -!- augur has joined.
14:46:34 <singingbanana> In Slashes, you can do: /12/hi. In // you cant. // is like a variable assignement. var Hello = Hello world.
14:48:32 <singingbanana> But you can do: Hello//Hello world ?//Hello world. Basically var hello = Hello world. Any var == Hello world. True.
14:49:41 <singingbanana> Slashes is string replacement, // is variable assignation!
14:51:32 <singingbanana> After reading the /// page, I noticed you can integrate slashes into a programming language. /"print"?"/n"/"println ?
14:54:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
14:54:28 <singingbanana> // is plagiary. 2slashes also. Varassign? Wisdom_teacher?
14:58:07 <Taneb> singingbanana: I think fungot has some rate limiting
14:58:07 <fungot> Taneb: i didn't do it!), but there it is
14:58:19 <Taneb> So if you speak to it too much it stops listening to you for a while
15:00:33 -!- singingbanana has quit (Quit: singingbanana).
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15:02:31 <danil> fungot: Is it Turing-complete
15:02:31 <fungot> danil: you're not getting much if you're not kissing the u.s.
15:02:53 <danil> fungot: Is that a yes or a no?
15:02:54 <fungot> danil: which ones would be more practical ( but less tarpitty)
15:03:50 <danil> So according to FUNGOT, singingbanana's // language is Turing complete!
15:04:11 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:05:15 <wob_jonas> `8ball does fungot hate singingbanan?
15:05:16 <fungot> wob_jonas: i have no idea what it does differnt. does it normally get implemented directly? it's pretty clean.
15:05:53 <danil> `8ball Is it Turing complete
15:05:53 <HackEso> I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions.
15:06:13 <danil> The answer: `8ball
15:08:03 <danil> So, according to 8ball it is
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16:12:08 <fizzie> ^8ball Is `8ball more trustworthy than ^8ball?
16:12:48 <wob_jonas> fizzie: someone keeps editing hackego's bin/8ball so it gives all sorts of random responses that don't appear in the classical magic 8-ball
16:13:23 <wob_jonas> also you can make it loaded by quickly editing it in a private message
16:14:02 <wob_jonas> fizzie: we have a slight problem with conventions in hackeso
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16:15:27 <wob_jonas> fizzie: singingbanana tried to create a russian translated version of the welcome. it's in wisdom/welcome.ru now. but it's way too long to fit into a single irc line, so I don't know how the command should work.
16:15:51 <wob_jonas> fizzie: should I ask shachaf about that?
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16:23:53 <fizzie> Hmm. I think optimally it should just be made to fit, dropping some of the less relevant information if it's impossible otherwise. If it really needs to be longer, I guess it should tie into some long-output conventions, which you could ask shachaf about.
16:23:57 <fizzie> It's 429 bytes, that's not really far from fitting.
16:25:30 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, I told you it's _way_ too long
16:26:15 <Taneb> What's the target length?
16:26:23 <wob_jonas> what if we make it put the second part to the spam buffer?
16:27:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:27:24 <wob_jonas> Taneb: it's complicated. depends on HackEso's hostname, the channel where the command is invoked, and there's one byte of difference even depending on the listener
16:31:28 <HackEso> 4566:2014-04-15 <fizzïe> mv data/8ballreplies share/; sed -i -e \'s/data/share/\' bin/8*ball; rmdir data # going to hit some empty-directory problem again, I\'m sure \ 4564:2014-04-15 <fizzïe> mkdir data; mv 8ballreplies data/; sed -i -e \'s|8ballreplies|data/8ballreplies|\' bin/8ball # let\'s keep the /hackenv clean and tidy, everybody \ 456
16:31:56 <shachaf> no evidence of bin/8ball bring edited for 4 years hth
16:32:23 <HackEso> 8689:2016-07-04 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "I\'m a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions." >> share/8ballreplies \ 8688:2016-07-04 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "Holy shit, I can\'t believe you\'re even asking me. NO!" >> share/8ballreplies \ 4569:2014-04-15 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/Concantrate/Concentrate/;s/$/./\' sha
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16:36:44 <fizzie> wob_jonas: The IRC line length limit is complicated, but HackBot's target length is a fixed 350 not including the complicated parts.
16:36:59 -!- relrod has joined.
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16:37:46 <wob_jonas> how should the russian welcome command work? require a `spam for the part about the other type of esoteric?
16:38:13 <shachaf> I recommend making it shorter
16:38:39 <wob_jonas> shachaf: but it's way too long. you know, because it's mostly made of russian letters, which take up two bytes.
16:38:47 <fizzie> It's not *way* too long.
16:39:00 <shachaf> Oh, well, hpp shouldn't be messing with 8ballreplies
16:39:43 <fizzie> Especially if I bump the HackEso-imposed limit by a little, which could be reasonable. 350 is pretty conservative, since it leaves 160 bytes for the overhead.
16:40:33 <fizzie> ":HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" doesn't take all that much space, plus some slack for incidentals and the weird registered-or-not prefix thing.
16:40:59 <HackEso> 1/2:It is certain. \ It is decidedly so. \ Without a doubt. \ Yes definitely. \ You may rely on it. \ As I see it, yes. \ Most likely. \ Outlook good. \ Yes. \ Signs point to yes. \ Reply hazy try again. \ Ask again later. \ Better not tell you now. \ Cannot predict now. \ Concentrate and ask again. \ Don't count on it. \ My reply is no. \ My sourc
16:41:09 <HackEso> 2/2:es say no. \ Outlook not so good. \ Very doubtful. \ Holy shit, I can't believe you're even asking me. NO! \ I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions.
16:41:17 <wob_jonas> fizzie: there's also a plus and two bytes of newline (the server always sends crlf, even though it accepts lf)
16:41:37 <wob_jonas> fizzie: and in the welcome commands, we allow a nick
16:41:37 <shachaf> `2 doag share/8ballreplies
16:41:37 <fizzie> wob_jonas: The 160 was 510-350.
16:41:39 <HackEso> 2/2: share/8ballreplies \ 4568:2014-04-15 <oerjän> sed -i \'21,$d\' share/8ballreplies #More fun than `revert \ 4567:2014-04-15 <int-̈e> ` echo 42 >> share/8ballreplies \ 4566:2014-04-15 <fizzïe> mv data/8ballreplies share/; sed -i -e \'s/data/share/\' bin/8*ball; rmdir data # going to hit some empty-directory problem again, I\'m sure
16:41:45 <HackEso> shachaf: Hei og velkommen til det internasjonale knutepunktet for esoterisk programmeringsspråkdesign og -utrulling! For mer informasjon, se wikien vår: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For den andre typen esoterisme, prøv #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.)
16:41:58 <wob_jonas> and the nick on freenode can be up to, what, 15 or 16 bytes? let me look that up
16:43:32 <fizzie> 429 (payload) + 2 (crlf) + 51 (command) + 1 (that thing) + 18 (let's say nick, colon and space) = 501.
16:43:33 <wob_jonas> 16. and the channel length can be up to 50 bytes on freenode (it's even longer on some other networks).
16:43:36 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 4569 share/8ballreplies > share/ballreplies
16:43:44 <fizzie> Yes, but this is #esoteric, not an arbitrary channel.
16:44:13 <wob_jonas> if you control hackeso, you can also make its username shorter
16:44:31 <fizzie> Assuming multibot supports that.
16:44:37 <wob_jonas> the hostname is harder to make shorter, it requires buying domains and dns and setting up dns and reverse dns entries
16:45:31 <shachaf> fizzie already has a pretty short domain name
16:45:44 <fizzie> logPrint("USER %s localhost localhost :MultiBot\r\n", nick);
16:46:05 <fizzie> Guess it's always the nick. Though I could patch it.
16:46:30 <fizzie> Or run an identd, I guess.
16:46:52 <wob_jonas> fizzie: the identd can cut one more byte, the tilde
16:47:28 <shachaf> Yes, that's why fizzie just suggested it
16:47:42 <fizzie> Well, and because it would mean I don't have to patch the code.
16:48:16 <wob_jonas> fizzie: I don't think it works that way
16:48:30 <fizzie> Does it have to match the provided one?
16:48:34 <wob_jonas> I don't really know, but I thought the tilde disappears only if the USER and the identd response is string equal
16:48:40 <fizzie> Could be. Would make sense.
16:49:47 <shachaf> I propose migrating to #eso
16:50:27 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what if you just make it join with a short nick, then immediately reNICK him?
16:51:08 <fizzie> That's probably not much simpler than just hardcoding the username in there.
16:51:39 <wob_jonas> or add a proxy between it that rewrites the USER line? um wait, is it using ssl?
16:51:49 <fizzie> I won't have time for mucking around with identd (going on vacation), but I think I could switch it to "~h" and bump the hackbot limit to what the current setup can support.
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16:55:58 <HackEso> Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
16:56:31 <wob_jonas> I want an irc server that doesn't even bother telling the real username and host in the username@host part, just pretends it's always a@a.
16:56:36 <fizzie> There should be 31 bytes of slack for adding a "nick: " in front.
16:58:34 <wob_jonas> fizzie: 18 bytes of slack on freenode
16:58:49 <wob_jonas> fizzie: on freenode, the max nick length is 16
16:59:54 <wob_jonas> fizzie: #freenode tells me an identd might be enough alone
17:00:09 <wob_jonas> I haven't tried setting up an identd yet, so I don't know
17:00:57 <fizzie> I mean, the limit I set (which is close to the maximum with some rounding-off since I probably didn't count right) was 460 bytes, so since that message is 429, there's currently 31 bytes left. The nick part is under the hackbot limit, since it's part of the body.
17:01:18 <wob_jonas> like a fake indentd that is, one that always tells the username is "a"
17:01:40 <fizzie> There's a lot of them around. I think I've used... oidentd?
17:02:05 <fizzie> There's probably some that are very simple if that's all you want. oidentd can do a mixture of fake and real replies.
17:02:27 <wob_jonas> I'd prefer all fake. less chance of accidental security bugs.
17:03:35 <fizzie> You probably could use "while true; do echo ... | nc -l ...; done" as your identd for that. Though I'm not sure how security-minded netcat implementations are.
17:03:54 <fizzie> Oh, I guess it needs a bit more than that, since it needs to copy the input to the output.
17:04:15 <wob_jonas> fizzie: basically I don't know how involved the identd protocol is
17:04:25 <fizzie> It's ancient, so very simple.
17:04:53 <fizzie> Line-oriented, input is two decimal integers "N, M" and output is "N, M : USERID : UNIX : a" in your case.
17:05:07 <fizzie> (The integers being the local and remote ports of the connection.)
17:06:06 <fizzie> (I'm sure someone's written a very simple constant-response identd.)
17:06:28 <fizzie> "nullidentd" sounds like a likely candidate.
17:06:34 <fizzie> "nullidentd is a small, fast and secure identd daemon. It returns a static string for every query."
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17:17:19 <wob_jonas> in English, are there two different verbs of which the present participle form is the same? there's this rule about doubling the final letters that avoids that most of the time, but I think there was some strange example where a collision still happened.
17:18:13 <wob_jonas> I'm wondering because of Intercal, which has the "abstain from fooing" thing
17:24:08 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I think there are
17:31:23 <HackEso> 436) <fungot> elliott: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'.
17:31:27 <HackEso> drate, 5g fat, 8 g \ carbohydrate, 157mg, potassiol and lot of other \ from living main dampenage for yours. Is evenants will pieces of bag \ will rolled for cooking. \ \ From fat and the cold with a chili sesame bitter exchanges. \ \ Source: Per Serving: 2008 Cylils, 1988. Source: Instansonine/chili of Advisory \ Soups "SAUCE" Company: Beat in All Parmesan cheese \ \ Source: Levan Cookbook our I'll Green seasoning. It have add the shrimp in a
17:31:31 <HackEso> Pristine Angel \ 4WW \ Creature -- Angel \ 4/4 \ Flying \ As long as Pristine Angel is untapped, it has protection from artifacts and from all colors. \ Whenever you cast a spell, you may untap Pristine Angel. \ DST-R, CNS-M
17:32:16 <wob_jonas> and "sampenage"? recipe isn't usually inventing words
17:35:03 <fizzie> Are mat and matte different verbs, and what's the present participle of the latter?
17:35:06 <fizzie> (Wordnet has "entangle, tangle, mat, snarl" and "felt, felt up, mat up, matt-up, matte up, matte, mat" as two separate entries with relatively different meanings.)
17:35:58 <fizzie> FWIW, wiktionary doesn't accept it as a verb at all, so.
17:36:36 <wob_jonas> fizzie: you're right, both have "matting" as their present participle according to my dict
17:37:19 <fizzie> I didn't really come up with it spontaneously, used cat /usr/share/dict/words | egrep '([b-df-hj-np-tv-z])\1[aeiou]$' for inspiration.
17:37:48 <wob_jonas> so what should "(300) DO REINSTATE MATTING" do if the interpreter supports both the "MAT" and "MATTE" commands?
17:45:54 <wob_jonas> by the way, the dictionary actually says that "matte" is a variant spelling of "matt", and that "matt" is a verb whose present participle is "matting", but that still works fine
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17:55:23 <wob_jonas> zzo38: M:tG: Dominaria Update Bulletin https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/dominaria-update-bulletin-2018-04-13
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18:11:14 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 3.16228
18:11:23 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 3.16228 3.16228
18:11:43 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 3.16228
18:20:05 <zzo38> They mention the changes there but the changes do not seem to actually be posted yet?
18:20:49 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, the bulletin is always days before the comp rules comes out, because the comp rule changes goes through an editing phase after it leaves the rules manager's desk
18:21:02 <wob_jonas> the modified rules will come out in a week or two
18:23:47 <HackEso> Plummet \ 1G \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with flying. \ ARC-C, M11-C, M12-C, M13-C, M14-C, CNS-C, M15-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, BFZ-C, CN2-C
18:27:08 <wob_jonas> dunno, Dominaria seems a bit underwhelming for me.
18:27:14 <zzo38> Since, I have some questions, which are not answered in that update bulletin but I expect will be once the rules are actually posted, such as a few things about Sagas
18:27:47 <wob_jonas> some people were really enthusiastic about it, but I don't know what they saw in it
18:27:57 <wob_jonas> and now I'm looking at all the cards
18:28:07 <zzo38> I like the cards I have seen for Dominaria; I prefer Time Spiral, but they already did Time Spiral so now they are going to make something else instead.
18:28:22 <zzo38> (And there are things I would have done that WotC is unlikely to do, anyways)
18:28:45 <wob_jonas> there are a very few cards I like, sure, but in the whole it looks ugly, and too few cards grab my attention
18:28:47 <zzo38> There are two things I don't like, the phrasing "any target" and the way legendary sorceries are working.
18:30:03 <wob_jonas> but I guess not all sets can be winners. there's still all the cards from other sets.
18:30:14 <wob_jonas> it's not like anyone forces me to choose cards from this set
18:30:58 <zzo38> Now if other card having the same restriction as legendary sorceries, that is messy! And, "legendary" isn't supposed to working like legendary sorceries do anyways it doesn't make sense! I propose those cards should remain legendary, but also add a keyword ability with the meaning that is now for legendary sorceries, but that keyword ability is suitable for any playable card.
18:31:26 <zzo38> wob_jonas: They do, if you enter those tournament, but you do not need to enter those kind of tournament
18:34:25 <zzo38> Not all of the .*rc files are used to "run commands", although some are.
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18:41:04 <wob_jonas> Charge is a card I like. this effect used to cost 3 mana, then later 2 mana, sometimes even 2 mana with advantages, and Ravnica almost has a 1 mana version, but this is the first time they print it straight up for 1 mana I think
18:43:57 <wob_jonas> it might not practically be better than the ravnica version (Wojek Siren), but still, it's good to know that it exists now
18:44:29 <shachaf> Hmm, in C you can index a 2D array arr as "x[arr][y]"
18:46:04 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the article even says that: "eep in mind that this article was written before the rules changes were finalized in editing, so there may be minor deviations from what I describe below."
19:25:50 <zzo38> {-} Planeswalker Land (4) ;; +1: Add {U}. ;; -1: Add {W}. ;; -1: Add {B}.
19:31:31 <FireFly> wob_jonas: it disappeared briefly because VPS provider's switch had some hiccups
19:37:22 <int-e> zzo38: what's the ;;? life?
19:37:57 <int-e> nah, I guess it should be tapping... so what's the number by itself?
19:38:53 <zzo38> int-e: The ;; is the paragraph separator
19:39:17 <zzo38> The abilities are loyalty abilities (so, not mana abilities)
19:39:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: the number is loyalty cost in a loyalty ability
19:40:44 <wob_jonas> we should really use fake keywords for that, especially now that we have levels, saga chapters, and loyalties
19:40:56 <wob_jonas> by fake keywords I mean a keyword that isn't printed on the card
19:41:13 <zzo38> Levels and saga chapters are keyword abilities
19:41:26 <wob_jonas> sure, but is there a keyword we can use to mark them?
19:41:50 <wob_jonas> when they aren't printed to a card formatted with those shaded or boxed elements
19:41:51 <zzo38> Yes, I don't know how to represent them in ASCII; I thought perhaps something like <I> or <II> for chapters
19:42:24 <zzo38> Perhaps "Chapter I--"
19:42:26 <wob_jonas> like "chapter 1 - foo" and "-1 loyalty - foo"
19:42:34 <int-e> wob_jonas: ah, newfangled nonsense
19:42:49 <wob_jonas> int-e: sort of. but levels aren't.
19:43:17 <zzo38> Loyalty abilities are still activated abilities, but it is a special kind of activated abilities compared with the other kind
19:43:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: and it's exactly because it's newfangled nonsense that I want to use words for them, rather than (like some plain text representations) reserve square brackets for such unimportant things as loyalty abilities
19:45:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: how would you represent the level boxes, like those on Joraga Treespeaker, in plain text?
19:45:47 <wob_jonas> I guess I should eventually check how scryfall's database represents them
19:46:00 <zzo38> I don't know. Possibly: Level 1-4 (1/2)--{T}: Add {GG}.
19:46:16 <wob_jonas> in parenthesis? that would be confusing
19:46:41 <zzo38> Yes, you are correct
19:46:48 <zzo38> Use of parentheses is wrong here
19:46:49 <wob_jonas> also, how about Coralhelm Commander? that's even worse
19:47:23 <zzo38> Perhaps just drop the parentheses
19:48:53 <zzo38> But yes, that is even worse now I saw
19:51:15 <zzo38> The rules seem to use {LEVEL} to represent the level symbol
19:51:16 <HackEso> `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1, `4 and `spam. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
19:51:55 <HackEso> sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
19:52:04 <HackEso> spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
19:53:17 <zzo38> You could also use {} to represent chapter symbols, but it becomes confusing if any card ever has ten chapters, so "Chapter I--" may be better
19:54:00 <wob_jonas> ten chapters? would that even fit on a silver-bordered card?
19:54:26 <zzo38> I doubt it, but I don't know. Maybe if it is multiple same chapters it might?
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19:59:17 <zzo38> Maybe on a artless card it might fit
20:00:16 <wob_jonas> completely artless is unlikely, but you could have something with reduced quantity of art, like the Greater Morphling
20:00:16 <zzo38> ASCII representations of Magic: the Gathering cards is useful not only for stuff such as IRC and writing documents that are plain text files, but may also be used as input to programs that can render the cards.
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20:03:15 <wob_jonas> or you could fit a lot of chapters on the melded backside of two cards
20:04:21 <zzo38> I have also used double square brackets to represent flavor text, and double angle brackets for notes that are not part of the card text or the flavor text. I also used "pseudotypes" to represent color indicators, and sometimes also to represent rarity.
20:05:20 <wob_jonas> as in an overcomplicated card like Old Fogey or Blast from the Past
20:07:15 <HackEso> Transguild Courier \ 4 \ Artifact Creature -- Golem \ 3/3 \ [White/Blue/Black/Red/Green color indicator.] \ DIS-U \ \ Transguild Promenade \ Land \ Transguild Promenade enters the battlefield tapped. \ When Transguild Promenade enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you pay {1}. \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. \ RTR-C, C13-C, C16-C, CMA-C
20:08:41 <wob_jonas> wait what? I was thinking of the first one, but that second one is surprising. I didn't know there was a Rupture Spire before Alara
20:09:37 <wob_jonas> it's not before Alara. it's in RTR
20:09:59 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54797&oldid=54451 * DMC * (+67)
20:16:49 <zzo38> A few of the .*rc files in my computer are used to run commands, such as .bashrc and .vimrc, but the rest of them aren't. I suppose, they still call them "run commands" though
20:18:10 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54798&oldid=54528 * DMC * (+1) /* The Instruction set */
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20:23:05 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54799&oldid=54690 * DMC * (+106) /* Commands */
20:27:27 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54800&oldid=54797 * DMC * (+7)
20:29:57 <fizzie> shachaf: Also y[x[arr]], of course. But maybe that's less oddish.
20:30:26 <fizzie> (Also I would've expected the y and x labels be as in arr[y][x] instead of what you did.)
20:40:02 <FireFly> arr[y][x] is the normal way to index a 2D array though
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20:48:34 <fizzie> FireFly: Yes, that's what I meant. "x[arr][y]" doesn't match that.
20:50:04 <fizzie> arr[y][x] <=> y[arr][x] <=> x[y[arr]] vs. arr[x][y] <=> x[arr][y] <=> y[x[arr]].
21:01:51 <esowiki> [[Talk:Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54801&oldid=37097 * DMC * (+167)
21:02:15 <esowiki> [[Talk:Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54802&oldid=54801 * DMC * (+4) /* Linear Feedback Shift Register */
21:21:18 <zzo38> Do you know how to do with Fossil so that in case of any timewarps you can cause it to regenerate it so that they are now in order (so that you can make diff/blame of them by time)?
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21:46:33 <shachaf> There's actually no reason for (arr + i) to be commutative, is there?
21:46:42 <shachaf> It's more like a group action than like addition.
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21:55:18 <zzo38> I thought of a way to add operator overloading into C and it requires that x[y] is the same as *(x+y) and that addition is always commutative
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22:25:02 <shachaf> Integer addition in C isn't always associative, right?
22:28:27 <int-e> yay for undefined behavior
22:29:11 <shachaf> And of course there's float addition.
22:29:33 <shachaf> imo what if required two's complement
22:30:02 <int-e> but at least + should be commutative (for ints and for floats as well)
22:30:47 <shachaf> a + b where a and b are the same type, sure.
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23:03:59 <wob_jonas> int-e: floating-point addition isn't actually commutative, but everyone (including compilers) pretend that it is, because it's essentially commutative
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23:04:53 <shachaf> When is floating-point addition not commutative?
23:05:06 <wob_jonas> the only thing that breaks commutativity is that the representation of the NaN you get from adding two NaNs is undefined, and there are like three to five different ways it's actually computed depending on the cpu architecture and instruction, plus a few more if the compiler swaps the arguments
23:06:06 <fizzie> shachaf: There's a proposal for C2x to require two's-complement.
23:06:31 <zzo38> My ideas about how to improve C programming language also requires two's complement
23:06:45 <fizzie> Or rather there's a WG21 proposal for C++ whatever-number-it-is to require two's-complement, and they've asked WG14 to consider if they'd be okay with adopting the same rules.
23:07:08 <zzo38> I also thought there should be some way to make hygienic macros
23:08:19 <zzo38> (As well as many GNU extensions, such as zero-length arrays, empty structures, ?: with nothing in between, and a few others)
23:08:37 <wob_jonas> There's the 387 way of copying the NaN argument with the higher mantissa, which is commutative, but only the x87 instructions do that, and even there I'm only sure on intel cpus as opposed to AMD; there's the x86 SSE/AVX way of copying the first argument; the MMIX way of copying the second argument; and the ARM way that I don't recall but seemed di
23:08:50 <wob_jonas> and these are just the ones hardware do, software implementations could do something else.
23:10:08 <wob_jonas> Note in particular that the SSE method and the MMIX method are actually different for subtraction and division, you can't just swap the arguments to get one from the other.
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00:37:07 <shachaf> If f is a partial function : A -> B, defined at some set C ⊆ A, what would you call A and C?
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02:07:19 <oerjan> shachaf: extra-channular puns will of course need a reliable reference hth
02:08:52 <shachaf> Let's just leave it as is.
02:08:56 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud hero is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
02:09:14 <shachaf> Are limits idempotent? I.e. is lim_{y -> x} {f(y)} = lim_{y -> x} {lim_{z -> y} {f(z)}}, where the left side is defined?
02:13:39 <alercah> the left-hand side may be defined without the right-hand side being meaningful because the limit may not exist at surrounding values
02:14:50 <shachaf> Yes, someone gave me a counterexample.
02:17:34 <shachaf> I guess if f only has a limit at one point that's enough of a counterexample.
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02:52:08 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 unjpuzbcy: incomprehensibly ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:08 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 aovmjmg: incomprehensibly ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:52:13 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 lfqaky: augur ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄,
02:52:13 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 fjpszxfla: j-bot ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:18 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 zzuxgqoqko: grumble ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:18 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ibmgkneme: tromp ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:23 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 sofcbzwnm: aloril ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:23 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ggnavwsxwr: sebbu ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:28 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 hzmbso: Scrooble ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:28 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 pebcizybyq: danieljabailey ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:33 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 peywcveeue: aloril ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:33 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 srrxvbxau: danieljabailey ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:38 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 vxjbqtelh: olsner ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:52:38 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 onnxsffxqt: vertrex ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:43 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 eoeskfhl: xa0 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:43 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 uvuqzmcvhz: zzo38 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:48 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 zywaav: lambdabot ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:48 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 dmiiydwqu: brandonson ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:52:53 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ptfnz: mniip ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:53 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 tmafpxz: trn ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:52:58 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ccdaox: olsner ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:52:58 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 miyigkqtd: shachaf ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:03 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ggsgjvdhu: incomprehensibly ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:03 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 aslwpe: LeoLambda_ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:08 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 bjmsvhlz: sebbu ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:08 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 piuqi: Lymia ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:20 <HackEso> bauruinemv: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:53:29 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ifeye: staffehn ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:29 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 icgzwg: Lymia ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄,
02:53:29 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 gqwiegq: Scrooble ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:30 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 cnhaxbg: catern ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:31 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ayszp: Bowserinator ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:33 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 zrfxo: contrapumpkin ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:33 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ckmncqd: diginet ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:34 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 fbhdvcr: sebbu ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:34 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ogzjylai: Elronnd ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:37 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 kndltyulf: lynn ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:38 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 slmpgrt: xa0 ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:39 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ngfjsie: FreeFull ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:52 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 oruchw: uplime ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:52 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ugrxnopcp: Melvar ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:52 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 yejqt: aloril ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄,
02:53:54 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 naquiozpbi: HackEso ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:53:54 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 rtamqugqaw: incomprehensibly ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:56 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 sdluymyajf: LeoLambda_ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:58 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 mxwsgahsp: uplime ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:53:59 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 thuxpqx: jix_ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:03 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 cwilwb: impomatic ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:54:03 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 quuieccm: brandonson ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:54:08 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 axxnphdmr: sprocklem ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:54:09 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 mkjuxb: augur ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄,
02:54:14 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 rzqgtdr: Yurume_______ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:54:14 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 aszomf: MDude ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄,
02:54:23 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 vqyqbgib: olsner ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:23 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 uizyaar: Sgeo__ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:24 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 muhtyqdn: oerjan ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:25 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 kiatpz: j-bot ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:29 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ohyfmuwwn: imode ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:29 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 lhdizjz: incomprehensibly ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
02:54:34 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 auftzem: lambdabot ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄<CTCP>
02:54:34 <bauruinemv> ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ L0DE RADIO HOUR IS NOW LIVE!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3e0LFXsIw TOPIC: COUNTDOWN TO WORLD WAR 3 CALL 315-505-4666 ihrqy: augur ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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02:58:08 <shachaf> didn't even acknowledge the relcome
02:59:19 <imode> okay the guy's actually on the network. his name is l0de. he's cross-channel spamming. and he's advertising his stream.
03:00:57 <oerjan> unfortunately i wasn't looking at the irc window
03:00:59 <xkapastel> there's been a lot of spam on freenode lately jeeze
03:01:20 <xkapastel> looks the same, they always use that stupid coloring
03:01:40 <xkapastel> i guess it could be a script that's been popularized recently
03:07:14 <imode> this is why usenet is still a thing.
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03:14:32 -!- MoonyTheDwarf has changed nick to Polonium.
03:14:48 -!- Polonium has changed nick to MoonyTheDwarf.
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03:17:15 <HackEso> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
03:17:26 <oerjan> `le/rn_append le/rn//Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
03:17:28 <HackEso> Learned 'le/rn': le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
03:18:12 <oerjan> itym the joke is a thing of the past hth
03:18:53 <HackEso> wisdom/le/arn \ wisdom/le/rn
03:19:21 <HackEso> 6546:2016-01-11 <shachäf> le//rn le/arn//lern 2 spel
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03:23:08 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ,1: not found
03:23:56 <oerjan> `mkx bin/,1//nur "$@" |& sport
03:24:04 <HackEso> 1/2:Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого т
03:24:08 <HackEso> 2/2:па эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
03:24:36 <oerjan> i don't think having overlong welcomes is a good thing.
03:25:20 <oerjan> and the split utf-8 character isn't exactly helping :/
03:26:54 <shachaf> oerjan: imo fix the splitting script twh
03:27:02 <oerjan> sounds too complicated
03:27:25 <HackEso> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 350 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p<s): \ lw = N-mw-2-len(`i`) \ print data[p:p+lw] \ i+=1 \ p+=lw
03:27:25 <shachaf> not as complicated as homology hth
03:27:34 <MoonyTheDwarf> replace the splitter with a C program that does a better job. Done.
03:27:47 <oerjan> MoonyTheDwarf: it's already a python program
03:28:00 <oerjan> and it uses math to predict where to split
03:29:34 <oerjan> and HackEso's own cutoffs are more complicated when there's utf-8, i vaguely recall
03:30:38 <oerjan> so the "simple" math wouldn't work.
03:31:00 <MoonyTheDwarf> why not just use a standard per byte splitter, but have the cutoff point rounded down if it's inside a codel? :P
03:31:29 <oerjan> MoonyTheDwarf: the tricky part is that each line contains the number of lines inside it
03:31:55 <oerjan> so if you round down, you might actually increase the number of lines needed
03:32:05 <oerjan> and have to recalculate everything
03:32:31 <oerjan> especially if the number of lines tips a power of 10
03:32:46 <MoonyTheDwarf> just assume there will be 999 lines or something by default. always reserve that amount of space
03:32:59 <HackEso> 10972:2017-05-29 <oerjän> sled bin/distort//8s,int,str, \ 10971:2017-05-29 <oerjän> revert \ 10970:2017-05-29 <oerjän> sled bin/distort//s,int,str, \ 10969:2017-05-29 <oerjän> sled bin/distort//2s:, math::;8cmw = len(int(2*s/N))-1 \ 10968:2017-05-29 <oerjän> fetch bin/distort https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/distort \ 9929:2016-12-11 <shachäf> sled bin/distort//s\x03330\x03336\x03 \ 8612:2016-06-26 <shachäf> sled bin/distort//s#data = .*#
03:33:23 <shachaf> Did you add that? I think I just did the conservative thing originally.
03:34:02 <oerjan> then you asked me to make it perfect :P
03:34:17 <shachaf> and yet it still breaks on utf-8 ndth?
03:35:11 <oerjan> yep. it was way too complicated to handle.
03:35:29 <oerjan> HackEso uses two different cutoffs, one for characters and one for bytes
03:36:17 <oerjan> so you may in some cases fit more than 350 bytes if it's utf-8
03:36:17 <shachaf> Another thing you can do is, if there's a newline within a few characters of the ideal cutoff point, cut off at the newline.
03:36:39 <shachaf> Or, in fact, not even within a few characters. Just as long as it doesn't add another chunk.
03:36:43 <oerjan> shachaf: there are no newlines they're all replaced by \ hth
03:36:58 <oerjan> because i didn't want to hide information
03:37:35 <shachaf> But you know where the \s are
03:37:43 <shachaf> You can make them line up with the text.
03:37:58 <oerjan> besides, none of this will change the fact that that welcome.ru is too long to be output by a `welcomeish command
03:38:02 <shachaf> That way when `5 prints 5 quotes in two chunks the quote end will line up with the chunk end (usually).
03:39:22 <shachaf> Also replacing newlines with \ ought to be injective.
03:39:25 * oerjan doesn't want to fix this at least not now.
03:39:47 <shachaf> So you need to escape the string [' ', '\\', ' ']
03:40:10 <oerjan> HackEso already doesn't do that in ordinary output.
03:40:40 <shachaf> I know, but `1 is already better than ``
03:40:45 <shachaf> Might as well make it even better.
03:40:58 <shachaf> I wouldn't mind encoding newlines differently, either.
03:41:48 <shachaf> How many spam-related commands are there?
03:41:57 <shachaf> We pretty much just needd `1 and `n
03:42:33 <shachaf> All the others can be deleted or implemented in terms of them or something. This naming scheme is absurd.
03:42:38 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54803&oldid=53626 * Ais523 * (+42) see also
03:43:04 <esowiki> [[My Unreliable Past]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54804&oldid=41057 * Ais523 * (+28) see also
03:49:44 <oerjan> now to remember to eat...
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04:41:37 <HackEso> The password of the month is Schizophrenic Lagomorph
04:41:53 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is way too late to fool anyone.
04:41:55 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is way too late to fool anyone.
04:42:15 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54805&oldid=54799 * Ais523 * (+702) it's TC
04:46:56 <shachaf> Is the '.' part of the password?
04:54:30 <oerjan> `slwd password//s,.$,,
04:54:31 <HackEso> password//The password of the month is way too late to fool anyone
04:56:49 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> in English, are there two different verbs of which the present participle form is the same? <-- are you dying to know the answer
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05:20:23 <fizzie> By the way, the hackbot internal splitting is UTF-8-aware.
05:20:39 <fizzie> Oh, oerjan mentioned that already.
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05:22:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Maybe you want to fix bin/distort?
05:22:15 <fizzie> Yes, the rule is if the string parses fully as valid UTF-8, it takes the first (now) 460 bytes and re-decodes it as UTF-8 ignoring any invalid bytes (so removing any truncated characters from the end); but if it was already invalid from the get-go, it just takes the first 460 bytes.
05:22:37 <fizzie> Not right now, I have a flight to catch.
05:23:36 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/fizzie/hackbot/src/tip/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd#tr_60.cmd-64 is how it's implemented there.
05:23:46 <fizzie> Except I haven't pushed the new limit I'm using.
05:42:19 <HackEso> Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
05:43:56 <oerjan> oh duh it's just distort that has too low limit now... *sigh*
05:44:35 <oerjan> `` \@ longnickperson \? welcome.ru
05:44:36 <HackEso> longnickperson: Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
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05:55:27 <fizzie> `slwd bin/distort//s/N = 350/N = 460/
05:55:37 <fizzie> `sled bin/distort//s/N = 350/N = 460/
05:55:39 <HackEso> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 460 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p<s): \ lw = N-mw-2-len(`i`) \ print data[p:p+lw] \ i+=1 \ p+=lw
05:55:49 <fizzie> Doesn't fix the UTF-8 thing, but guess it's better than nothing.
05:57:30 <shachaf> whoa, we gained 110 bytes?!
05:57:33 <HackEso> 1/3:582) <Vorpal> anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper \ 366) <Sgeo> Will anyone be irritated if I tend to disconnect and reconnect a lot? [...] <oerjan> we _almost_ have an established policy that bots will be banned it they do that. which means we might have to administer a turing test to sgeo, and that could get ugly. \ 378) <oklofok> drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liqui
05:57:40 <HackEso> 2/3:d at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink <oklofok> olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, because it has both the element of composing and choice, it's kind of like an rpg really \ 1153) <Taneb> Last night I had a dream that someone wrote such bad Haskell code he accidentally summoned
05:57:45 <HackEso> 3/3:the Great Old Ones and I had to fix the Haskell code and save the day \ 262) <cpressey> BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN
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06:32:51 <oerjan> oh i actually did parametrize on N
06:35:28 <oerjan> `` cat share/8ball* | spore
06:36:09 <HackEso> cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${1-1}"
06:36:35 <oerjan> it's spam that adds the numbers, they're not in the file.
06:38:06 <oerjan> which means it would be harmless to overestimate the number of lines needed...
06:38:47 <HackEso> 1/2:modal logic//"modal logic" means "the most common logic" (that is, classical logic). \ `help//`help [<command>] gives HackEgo's default help message, or help for a specific command. Or currently possibly some other wisdom. \ // is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. \ chaos//chaos? ¯\(° _o)/¯ \ pineapple//Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a clas
06:39:03 <HackEso> shachäf shachäf boil̈y olsnër
06:39:10 <HackEso> 5886:2015-08-04 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/ / /\' wisdom/pineapple # thoerjan \ 5885:2015-08-04 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/therefore//\' wisdom/pineapple \ 3489:2013-08-27 <boil̈y> learn Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable. \ 3484:2013-08-27 <olsnër> learn Pineapple is a class 6 vegetable.
06:39:32 <shachaf> Hmm, I think the original was best.
06:40:30 <oerjan> i'm sorry but boily is the culinary expert in the channel hth
06:41:41 <oerjan> oh and the overestimate only changes anything if it tips over a power of 10.
06:41:53 <oerjan> which should be fairly rare.
06:43:06 <shachaf> I mean, there are usually 2-3 lines at most.
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06:45:03 <oerjan> worst case split is if it ends with the last 3 bytes of a 4 byte character
06:45:53 <oerjan> although the logic to check that will be annoying.
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07:00:44 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.ru: not found
07:01:01 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome.ru: not found
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07:28:30 <danil> `8ball any on online
07:28:45 <danil> It is decidedly so
07:38:17 <fungot> danil: frustration and stress. :p don't think that sliced bread is that big?'
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09:54:05 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I checked that. the standard present p-les are die => dying, dye => dyeing. I think the latter is deliberately adjusted because "die" is such a common verb.
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10:34:00 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * YamTokWae * New user account
10:38:20 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54806&oldid=54778 * YamTokWae * (+218) Introduction of Myself
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10:41:47 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokWae]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54807 * YamTokWae * (+38) Created page with "I am '''YamTokWae'''. I live in Japan."
10:51:47 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokWae/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54808 * YamTokWae * (+599) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Pxem |paradigms=procedural, imperative |author=[[User:GermanyBoy]] |year=[[:Category:2014|2014]] |typesys=static, strong |memsys=variable-based |dimen..."
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10:55:40 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokWae/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54809&oldid=54808 * YamTokWae * (-66)
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11:09:47 <wob_jonas> danil: it's a web-based irc client. the interface runs in a web browser with javascript, but there's a backing server that does the actual connection to the irc server. kiwi irc is at https://kiwiirc.com/ ,
11:10:44 <wob_jonas> danil: and you can use https://kiwiirc.com/client/chat.freenode.net/#esoteric to connect right to this channel
11:13:07 <wob_jonas> danil: another web-based irc client is qwebirc at http://webchat.freenode.net/
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11:31:12 <esowiki> [[Muddle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54810 * Singingbanana * (+1491) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Muddle |paradigms="Tape-based" |author=[[User:Singingbanana]] |year=[[:Category:2018|2018]] |class=:Category:Unknown computational class|Unknown com..."
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12:07:43 <esowiki> [[Muddle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54811&oldid=54810 * Singingbanana * (+802)
12:10:01 <esowiki> [[Muddle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54812&oldid=54811 * Singingbanana * (+59)
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12:20:36 <esowiki> [[Talk:Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54813&oldid=54796 * Kamish * (+101) /* How to create a page? */
12:22:09 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54814&oldid=54794 * Kamish * (-1092)
12:23:04 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54815&oldid=54783 * Kamish * (-12) /* R */
12:23:22 <esowiki> [[RANDo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54816 * Kamish * (+1086) Created page with "=== RANDo === <gallery> rando.png|Logo </gallery> <hr> === Commands === Consists of '''5''' commands: {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Value |- | r || adds random values t..."
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12:28:02 <esowiki> [[Muddle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54817&oldid=54812 * Singingbanana * (+25)
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13:41:04 <esowiki> [[Polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54818&oldid=52538 * ZM * (+2) Status update for the polyglot chain
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15:22:53 <HackEso> grep: invalid option -- ' ' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information.
15:22:59 <HackEso> wisdom/pope:The pope is elected by a committee where every cardinal is invited. Luckily only a set of them show up. \ wisdom/dth:dth is the dth ordinal. dth?
15:24:01 <HackEso> 945) <Bike> i've always wanted to xor swap transfinite ordinals
15:24:59 <wob_jonas> Hmm. None of these warn you that it's important not to confuse cardinal exponentiation with ordinal exponentiation.
15:25:35 <wob_jonas> maybe there's something in there about product measures at least?
15:25:45 <HackEso> wisdom/nnection:Nnections are measured in millibytes per siemens. \ wisdom/alpha:Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral. \ wisdom/indentity function:Indentity function is the function that measures how indented source code is. \ wisdom/mole:Mole is an SI unit for measuring large numbers of burrowing teeth. \ wisdom/haar measure:A Haar measure is what
15:25:53 <HackEso> 1/2:wisdom/nnection:Nnections are measured in millibytes per siemens. \ wisdom/alpha:Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral. \ wisdom/indentity function:Indentity function is the function that measures how indented source code is. \ wisdom/mole:Mole is an SI unit for measuring large numbers of burrowing teeth. \ wisdom/haar measure:A Haar measure is
15:26:19 <HackEso> 2/2:what Dutch people use to find out how long their hair is. \ wisdom/mapole:A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
15:26:54 <wob_jonas> ``` allquotes | grep -i measur | sport
15:26:55 <HackEso> 1/2:600) <twice11> Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap. <twice11> You measure a third point if you need an error estimate. \ 663) <NihilistDandy> Benchmarks are only a good measure of surprise \ 692) <elliott> aaaaah my scherzo is unmeasurable \ 1177) <int-e> like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. <Slereah_> man that must have sucked <Slereah_> People would be always like "Hey king
15:27:19 <HackEso> 2/2:, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" <Jafet> That's why they're called rulers, you know
15:28:12 <wob_jonas> that would have especially sucked while the king was still a small child and his body was growing
15:29:54 <wob_jonas> zzo38: by the way, if you don't yet, you should know about Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/
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16:17:50 <HackEso> Facebook is Taneb's face collection.
16:17:54 <HackEso> Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably).
16:18:52 <HackEso> wisdom/java:Java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures. \ wisdom/inventory:An inventory is a collection of inventions. \ wisdom/twitter:Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). \ wisdom/phenomenom:A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon. The collection of them is called "phenomenomenclature". \ wisdom/facebook:Facebook is Taneb's face collection.
16:19:02 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -Rsi collection wisdom | sport
16:19:03 <HackEso> 1/1:wisdom/java:Java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures. \ wisdom/inventory:An inventory is a collection of inventions. \ wisdom/twitter:Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). \ wisdom/phenomenom:A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon. The collection of them is called "phenomenomenclature". \ wisdom/facebook:Facebook is Taneb's face collection.
16:19:36 <HackEso> 1/1:wisdom/java:Java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures. \ wisdom/inventory:An inventory is a collection of inventions. \ wisdom/twitter:Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). \ wisdom/phenomenom:A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon. The collection of them is called "phenomenomenclature". \ wisdom/facebook:Facebook is Taneb's face collection.
16:20:09 <int-e> `` rm wisdom/{twitter,facebook}
16:20:55 <HackEso> wisdom/eyebrow \ wisdom/styrofoam \ wisdom/boxmodel
16:20:59 <HackEso> Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature.
16:21:03 <HackEso> styrofoam is Taneb's only weakness.
16:21:05 <HackEso> boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
16:39:30 <HackEso> wisdom/hfs:You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottomless pits mark the surface. \ wisdom/nundrum:A nundrum is the categorical dual of a conundrum: a problem whose solution is useless. \ wisdom/pico:pico is the useless twin of nano. \ wisdom/insanity:Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entry. \ wisdom/boring:Boring means o
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00:45:01 <oerjan> the water is still still
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02:48:53 <zzo38> I have a game with *.py and *.pyc files. If I modify it, is it necessary to do anything about the *.pyc files and if so what?
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03:17:11 <HackEso> 1/1:supercalifragilisticexponential growth//Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust. \ rdf//RDF is something zzo38 knows about. \ wtf//WTF means Welcome To Finland. \ wisdoom//Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise. \ schwa//To schwa is to reduce one or more vowels in a word. Example: "He usually pronounces the names of Indian dishes well, except he always schwas 'Tikka'."
03:18:16 <shachaf> zzo38: I think Python will check the timestamp on the .py and .pyc file and recompile it if necessary.
03:19:55 <zzo38> O, OK. Well, it worked
03:20:58 <zzo38> (Although it did not regenerate the .pyc files; that may be due to a permission error though.)
03:21:43 <zzo38> Still the file is not updated, although the modifications are working
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03:30:39 <zzo38> I just added into "angrydd" the "vs yourself game". I don't know if I did the "proper" way that should be done in a Python programming, although it does work. Rather I put a variable in the event manager, when "vs yourself game" menu is selected it is the same like "dwarf vs dwarf" game but before the game is started sets the variable so any game key will cause both players events.
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03:40:25 <oerjan> . o O ( angrydd the furious welsh )
03:40:35 <zzo38> Who has more than forty eyes? I have made up some character in a role playing game with varying number of eyes, but so far not more than ten, and my current GURPS character has only five eyes anyways.
03:40:48 <zzo38> oerjan: O, is that what it means? I thought it means "Angry Drunk Dwarf"
03:41:32 <oerjan> that was a pun on the welsh name dafydd hth
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05:19:42 <zzo38> Do you know how to make a interactive Turing machine in Magic: the Gathering that will work if both players are assumed to make the optimal play to try to win (or draw if you can't win)?
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06:33:46 <zzo38> (Generally in such a case I mean where the strategy isn't obvious; you may need to prove it based on the Turing machine being implemented too)
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07:52:10 <esowiki> [[Muddle++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54819 * Singingbanana * (+512) Created page with "Muddle++ is version of [[Muddle]] which looks even more weird! It manages to add a second tape, which reads from the first tape, and then pushes itself to the main tape. Don't..."
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08:48:23 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54820&oldid=54765 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0)
08:49:02 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54821&oldid=54820 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+0) /* Interface */
08:49:49 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54822&oldid=54821 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-147) /* Syntax */
08:50:33 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54823&oldid=54822 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+19) /* Features */
08:52:27 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54824&oldid=54823 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+82) /* Interface */
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08:52:45 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54825&oldid=54824 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-2) /* Features */
08:53:36 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54826&oldid=54825 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2) /* Features */
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08:58:35 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54827 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+2349) Created page with "'''AmBored--''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more co..."
08:59:00 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54828&oldid=54827 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (-79) /* Syntax */
09:02:06 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54829 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3210) Created page with "'''AmBored++''' is an esoteric language written by [[User:Is this the Krusty Krab|Is this the Krusty Krab]]. It is a [[Brainfuck]] derivative written in C++ which adds more co..."
09:02:27 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54830&oldid=54829 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+14) /* Syntax */
09:03:20 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54831&oldid=54828 * Is this the Krusty Krab * (+3) /* Syntax */
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13:21:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Takeover]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54832 * Plokmijnuhby * (+1020) Created page with "On examining the CAT section again, I notice a couple of things. # A correct CAT would take input, remove the trailing EOF and print the result. My version of CAT didn't remov..."
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13:30:49 <esowiki> [[Talk:Takeover]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54833&oldid=54832 * Plokmijnuhby * (+69) Forgot to add my name.
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16:07:37 <danil> Are Turnstiles Turing-complete?
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17:14:23 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LF337 * New user account
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17:28:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you know ais's new proof about M:tG being turing complete, with the waterfall model emulation? I think ais523 said it can probably made interactive (from the point of the game, or nondeterministic from the point of the machine) such that a player can give inputs to the machine, and you don't even need to rely on the players playing optimally
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17:36:22 <HackEso> 94) <fungot> alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia
17:36:26 <fizzie> So wrong: hotel wifi uses 1.1.1.1 as their internal/private sign-in/info/etc. page.
17:37:02 <fizzie> Cloudflare has their public recursive DNS server at the real 1.1.1.1 these days.
17:37:45 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what's a "recursive DNS server"?
17:39:02 <fizzie> One that queries other DNS server. The sort you can point a user at, that ISPs run.
17:39:53 <fizzie> As opposed to one that just answers queries about a single domain it's authoritative for.
17:40:10 <wob_jonas> And yes, that's a stupid setup by the hotel. Why don't they just use an address in the ranges reserved for local use?
17:40:28 <fizzie> I think the relevant bit in the DNS protocol is called "recursion enabled".
17:41:28 <fizzie> The IP they gave to my device is a 10.x.y.z one.
17:42:49 <fizzie> Sure, I just mean clearly they know about the actual private ranges too.
17:43:09 <wob_jonas> not necessarily. that might be a default setup for some equipment they bought or software they're using
17:43:35 <fizzie> 1.1.1.0/24 used to be "de-facto reserved", along with 1.2.3.0/24, just because so many people misappropriated it, or sent nonsense traffic to it.
17:44:52 <fizzie> The login page says to type "http://1.1.1.1/info" if I close the login tab, so maybe it's just picked to be easy to remember.
17:45:54 <wob_jonas> they could use a hostname provided by their local DNS for that, instead of an IP address
17:49:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54834&oldid=54806 * LF337 * (+318) /* Introductions */
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18:16:35 <esowiki> [[PL/MIX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54835&oldid=53802 * B jonas * (+2)
18:33:04 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54836&oldid=54803 * Plokmijnuhby * (+898)
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18:44:06 <esowiki> [[Ases]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54837 * LF337 * (+1849) Create article
18:47:04 <zzo38> Wifi has their own password mechanism they don't need a webpage; especially is problem if you cannot access the webpage on your device. Use a separate paper for any agreement required (which then mentions the password)
18:47:24 <zzo38> (And that way you won't lose it either)
18:47:52 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54838&oldid=54815 * LF337 * (+56) /* A */ include Ases
18:49:36 <esowiki> [[User:LF337]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54839 * LF337 * (+89) Create my user page
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19:02:35 <esowiki> [[Cookie Cutter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54840 * Qpliu * (+5233) Created page with "Cookie Cutter is a two-dimensional analog programming language. A Cookie Cutter program, P, is a set of points in a two-dimensional plane, that is applied to the data, D, whi..."
19:02:43 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54841&oldid=54838 * Qpliu * (+20) /* C */
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19:07:57 <wob_jonas> fungot, what's your least favorite color?
19:07:57 <fungot> wob_jonas: ( i believe), which are the most common usage
19:08:04 <wob_jonas> fungot, what's your least favourite colour?
19:08:04 <fungot> wob_jonas: right. i'm partial to darcs. yay!)) in it. the plain tty interface to mzscheme is that its an interpreter... putting random characters in...
19:08:34 <wob_jonas> darcs and mzscheme are your least favourites? I can understand taht
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19:41:08 <esowiki> [[Ases]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54842&oldid=54837 * LF337 * (+76) Include information i've forgotten
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19:51:03 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54843&oldid=54836 * Plokmijnuhby * (+249)
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21:30:29 <zzo38> I think the best way to design stuff is the UNIX philosophy, which is that you have enough ropes to hang yourself, and also a few more just in case. This includes computer programs, and also other stuff.
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21:43:03 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of UNIX philosophy? I think it is good, at least.
21:44:53 <wob_jonas> Usually yes, but not the the extreme. In particular, I don't like how your farbfeld utilities don't give an error or warning message if the magic header of the input image is wrong, and don't even try to verify that the command-line arguments have an approximately correct syntax.
21:45:36 <wob_jonas> But I also don't like frameworks that try to do everything together.
21:45:41 <zzo38> All of the converters do check that the header of the input image at least
21:46:21 <zzo38> (And, of course, these program are public domain; if you don't like it, you are free to modify it. You can also make suggestions of course; some I might use but some I might not use)
21:46:49 <wob_jonas> Yes, and at least you've fixed them so they at least don't run into undefined behavior when the command-line arguments are incorrect. I appreciate that.
21:47:14 <wob_jonas> As for image handling, I've installed gimp 2.10. That branch is at release candidate status.
21:47:35 <wob_jonas> It's a long awaited branch that has a lot of useful new features that 2.8 is not capable of.
21:48:31 <zzo38> Well, OK, although nothing means you are not allowed to have more than one program for image handling (although in some cases they do not work well together; I tried to write a specification to allow it to be fixed)
21:48:51 <wob_jonas> In particular, it handles various color depths for true color, whereas 2.8 can only work with 8 bit depth per color channel; various color profiles; has better previews for transform tools; and has a very new handle transform tool which will be particularly useful for me.
21:49:16 <wob_jonas> zzo38: certainly, I have lots of programs for image handling. just look at http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/bro .
21:49:58 <wob_jonas> Gimp, Krita, ImageMagick, G'MIC, Darktable, Gwenview, ffmpeg, exiftool, and more.
21:50:13 <zzo38> It is good if now they support 16-bit colours; I have seen a plugin for GIMP to use Farbfeld, although it only supports 8-bits-per-channels and can only use files and not pipes.
21:50:42 <wob_jonas> yes, it supports 16 bit per channel depth too
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21:52:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the five options (in gimp) for true color depth are 8 bit integer, 16 bit integer, 32 bit integer, 16 bit float, 32 bit float
21:52:59 <zzo38> Then you have what is needed I suppose
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21:55:14 <wob_jonas> Not today, but I'll definitely use the handle transform to try to align and make composites from some of my photos. The awkward interface of the affine and perspective transforms in gimp 2.8 made that too hard, so it will hopefully be much easier.
21:56:15 <wob_jonas> But for now I have some photos to share that don't need such tricky editing.
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22:02:43 <zzo38> I just use the ff-xwin program I wrote myself to view pictures now
22:03:09 <zzo38> (I still have ImageMagick installed, but don't need it much now that I have Farbfeld Utilities)
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22:21:30 <zzo38> Some of the programs you list, I use
22:23:43 <zzo38> Such as, Apache, Fossil, SQLite, and 7-Zip (I use the command-line 7-Zip though), and Swiss Ephemeris (I have used this to determine when the eclipse was; I also wrote a interface to use Swiss Ephemeris with JavaScript codes)
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22:26:33 <wob_jonas> yes, I think you were the one that pointed me to swiss ephemeris
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22:29:29 <zzo38> Yes, maybe that is
22:30:19 <zzo38> There are some things it does not do, such as figuring what time it is on other planets, but it does most things it needs to do.
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22:41:19 <zzo38> Can they add Free Hero Mesh into the Debian and Ubuntu package repositories once I write Free Hero Mesh?
22:42:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: if you (or someone else) package it suitably to a deb so it can be built from source automatically on a stock debian system (with all dependencies already packaged) and submit it to them, then they probably can (for the next version)
22:42:41 <wob_jonas> and it also has to be licensed as free software to get included
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22:45:45 <wob_jonas> and of course ideally installing it shouldn't conflict with the functionality of the rest of the system
22:54:43 <zzo38> The game engine itself is licensed as free software (and so are its dependencies)
22:56:30 <wob_jonas> zzo38: basically everything in the source package and its dependencies, required to build from source and install, has to be licensed as free software to get in the main archives
22:57:27 <wob_jonas> so eg. if you need a graphics pack to play the game, then that has to be licensed as freely distributable too
22:57:44 <zzo38> The only dependencies are SDL1 and SQLite (it also depends on smallxrm, although that is included with it). Some of the header files are auto-generated by JavaScript programs, so it helps to have Node.js installed if you want to alter those files. It does not affect the functionality of the rest of the system.
22:58:34 <zzo38> It does not include a graphics pack; the graphics are not part of the game engine itself. Although, puzzle sets that are included with it should be made to be free software too, currently it does not include any.
22:59:15 <zzo38> The only graphics included in the program itself are the X cursor shapes and the PC ROM font
22:59:37 <zzo38> Hopefully having those won't cause a problem.
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23:00:46 <wob_jonas> sorry, I'm laughing at this two-headed swan with a crown
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23:03:35 <zzo38> If people will contribute puzzles that are free software then they can be included with it too
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23:10:46 <zzo38> (Free Hero Mesh uses SQLite for two things: to store a user cache database, and to allow user-entered SQL statements to do stuff in the program. This program also uses sqlite3_mprintf() and some of those functions. The puzzle sets themself though have their own programming language, the Free Hero Mesh programming language.)
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23:29:50 <zzo38> Probably at first there will be no sounds and music either, but later versions might have those things.
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23:41:30 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> they could use a hostname provided by their local DNS for that, instead of an IP address <-- but that would _also_ break for anyone who had set their DNS to 1.1.1.1
23:42:25 <wob_jonas> oerjan: not if the hotel used an IP address from the private use areas for their DNS
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23:42:50 <oerjan> wob_jonas: no, i mean if someone had 1.1.1.1 set on their laptop
23:43:16 <wob_jonas> how would that be a problem? the hotel shouldn't use 1.1.1.1 at all
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23:43:47 <oerjan> wob_jonas: because if the user has that as DNS, they won't _see_ the hotel's local hostnames
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23:44:47 <oerjan> solution: the hotel could use 1.1.1.1 as their DNS :P
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02:46:03 <zzo38> I have other programs too that may be the possibility to include Debian/Ubuntu packages, such as Farbfeld Utilities (public domain except for LodePNG; it may be helpful to omit some files if they won't compile, or split them into separate packages if they require extra dependencies)
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03:35:43 <zzo38> This is the gopher server software I use: https://arin.ga/zbaOlR Use xinetd.
03:37:03 <zzo38> Only cgophserv.c is the actual server program; the others are used for other related purposes
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04:36:08 <zzo38> How to define your own MIME headers when using Heirloom-mailx?
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05:56:14 <fizzie> Aw: the built-in SSH agent in this Android SSH client doesn't allow adding new identities at the connected host.
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07:57:31 <esowiki> [[Charm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54844&oldid=54777 * Aearnus * (+390) Clarified readme, added info about the FFI, fixed code styling
07:58:21 <esowiki> [[Charm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54845&oldid=54844 * Aearnus * (+1) Update expired discord link
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11:56:23 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54846&oldid=54841 * Nobody * (+12) added UPLAN, will create page for it.
11:57:12 <esowiki> [[User:Nobody]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54847 * Nobody * (+72) Created page with "Hi. I can't program properly. Trying to make a language called [[UPLAN]]"
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13:29:03 <Taneb> `learn Doughnuts are a dessert with Euler characteristic 0.
13:29:05 <HackEso> Learned 'doughnut': Doughnuts are a dessert with Euler characteristic 0.
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15:26:54 <HackEso> r beft cookies cholesterol, 4 gm fat \ family canning. \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: CARROT CAKE \ Categories: Cakes \ Yield: 6 Servings \ \ 3 c Sugar \ 1 ts Salt \ 1/8 ts Ground nutmeg \ 1 cl Garlic, minced \ 1 ts Lemon juice \ \ Combine fruit cheese and cocoa. Spread on wire racks in pans. Cook on an additional \ browning the form a clean fat. Cool completely; or thickened. Pour over the \ cre
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15:43:31 <esowiki> [[Pyth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54848&oldid=51844 * Raumaankidwai * (+194) /* Quine */
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19:12:58 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54849 * Nobody * (+710) Created page with "UPLAN ('''U'''nusable '''P'''rogramming '''LAN'''guage ) is an esoteric programming language designed by [[User:Nobody]] . UPLAN codes are stored in a file called "code.uplan"..."
19:13:11 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54850&oldid=54849 * Nobody * (+2)
19:14:26 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54851&oldid=54850 * Nobody * (-94)
19:15:25 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54852&oldid=54851 * Nobody * (+33)
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20:22:10 <zzo38> Can you avoid row hammer by storing two copies of the data in separate RAM chips with the addressing mixed up (by using XOR and exchanging some of the bits of the address around)?
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21:39:35 <lambdabot> CYUL 162100Z 05018G29KT 15SM -RA FEW025 BKN040 OVC110 02/00 A2966 RMK SC1SC5AC3 SC TR PRESFR SLP048
21:40:00 * boily sacrifices a few chickens to make the good weather come
21:41:08 <int-e> 1 chicken, 2 chicken?
21:41:17 <lambdabot> LOWI 162120Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 -SHRA FEW016 BKN038 11/10 Q1020
21:41:35 <boily> int-ello. a bunch of two chickens.
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21:41:44 <int-e> boily: Be careful or it'll start raining feathers and beaks.
21:42:25 <int-e> (And it really hurts to get beaks in your eye.)
21:42:53 <lambdabot> LIPZ 162120Z 18002KT CAVOK 15/12 Q1014 NOSIG
21:43:06 <fizzie> It's been silly hot here.
21:43:12 <lambdabot> https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PRESFR
21:43:20 <lambdabot> ESSB 162120Z AUTO 09002KT 9999 NCD 04/03 Q1016
21:43:31 <HackEso> Thanks, lambdabot. Thambdabot.
21:43:39 <FireFly> It was about 12ish today I think?
21:44:05 <FireFly> It's apparently getting to like 20 for next weekend
21:44:51 <fizzie> I think it was something like 23-24 here.
21:45:10 <boily> blgengbhenghbegheh to you all :P
21:45:26 <fizzie> Or rather in Florence, we did a day trip there.
21:45:54 <FireFly> For some reason I thought you were in London
21:46:13 <fizzie> I am, normally, just on vacation now.
21:46:57 <fizzie> It's supposed to be really warm back home on Wed/Thu, and the weekend London marathon day too.
21:48:04 <fizzie> The forecast briefly peaked at 26, though now they're downgraded to "only" 24 on Thu. I don't think it's going to stay like that.
21:48:57 <FireFly> the forecast for thursday has a peak at 21°C here apparently
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22:43:33 <HackEso> 1/2:reference//reference is dangling, sorry. \ eol//EOL stands for End Of Lawn. It's often found past the wabe. oerjan requests your presence there immediately. \ fortran//FORTRAN was a language in 1957, in which our noble, honourable ancestors wrote programs on punched cards and paper tape. \ hg//hg is dark alchemy used by oerjan to fix things. Like most alchemy, it involves drinking mercury. \ web access//Sorry, HackEgo's sandbox currently has
22:43:35 <HackEso> 2/2:no web access. However, see `? `fetch
22:44:51 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f | xargs grep oerjan | wc -l
22:44:52 <HackEso> xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option \ grep: wisdom/second: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom: Is a directory \ grep: introduction: No such file or directory \ grep: the: No such file or directory \ grep: single: No such file or directory \ grep: objects: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/soviet: No such file or directory \ grep: russia: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/civ
22:45:01 <boily> asdjkflsjkehrguielgrhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.
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00:15:58 <int-e> `` find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep oerjan | wc -l
00:16:26 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l oerjan wisdom | wc -l
00:16:29 <int-e> `` grep -rl oerjan wisdom | wc -l
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00:16:36 <int-e> `` grep -r oerjan wisdom | wc -l
00:16:48 <shachaf> One of them is a twoerjan?
00:17:22 <int-e> `` find -type f wisdom -print0 | xargs wc -l | grep ^2
00:17:23 <HackEso> find: paths must precede expression: wisdom \ Try 'find --help' for more information.
00:17:32 <int-e> `` find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs wc -l | grep ^2
00:17:33 <HackEso> xargs: WARNING: a NUL character occurred in the input. It cannot be passed through in the argument list. Did you mean to use the --null option? \ xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option \ wc: wisdom: Is a directory \ wc: introduction: No such file or directory \ wc: the: No such file or directory \ wc: single: No such file or directory \ wc: objects: No such file or directory \ wc: russia: No suc
00:17:36 <int-e> `` find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 wc -l | grep ^2
00:17:44 <shachaf> `` rgrep oerjan wisdom | grep -Po '^[^:]+:' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn
00:17:45 <HackEso> 2 wisdom/bdsmreclist: \ 1 wisdom/אrjan: \ 1 wisdom/œrjan: \ 1 wisdom/ørjan: \ 1 wisdom/zoidberg: \ 1 wisdom/userweps: \ 1 wisdom/typoerjan: \ 1 wisdom/the universe: \ 1 wisdom/sewerjan: \ 1 wisdom/saucepan: \ 1 wisdom/remavas: \ 1 wisdom/oerjan: \ 1 wisdom/hppavilion[42]: \ 1 wisdom/hg: \ 1 wisdom/evil throne: \ 1 wisdom/eol: \ 1 wisdom/boorjan: \
00:18:09 <HackEso> * oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits
00:18:16 <HackEso> 3726:2013-09-11 <oerjän> mv bdsmreclist wisdom
00:18:44 <HackEso> 7876:2016-05-06 <shachäf> ` mv bdsmreclist junk/ \ 3893:2013-10-07 <Phantom_Hoovër> echo "<oerjan> YOU are out of order." >> bdsmreclist \ 3726:2013-09-11 <oerjän> mv bdsmreclist wisdom \ 3717:2013-09-11 <Phantom_Hoovër> mv bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist \ 3715:2013-09-11 <Phantom_Hoovër> rm bdsmreclist \ 3599:2013-09-02 <Phantom_Hoovër> echo "* oerjan swats quintopia -----###" >> bdsmreclist
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00:45:17 <wob_jonas> int-e, boily: guys, it's still grep -REsil . The -R is for recursive, the -E for egrep syntax (parenthesis and vertical bars are meta-characters without a backslash), -s for suppressing warnings about files that can't be read, -i for case-insensitive, -l for list filenames only with no lines shown.
00:45:24 <HackEso> wisdom/ørjan \ wisdom/zoidberg \ wisdom/hppavilion[42] \ wisdom/œrjan \ wisdom/sewerjan \ wisdom/the universe \ wisdom/oerjan \ wisdom/bdsmreclist \ wisdom/evil throne \ wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/typoerjan \ wisdom/saucepan \ wisdom/eol \ wisdom/remavas \ wisdom/boorjan \ wisdom/userweps \ wisdom/amortized \ wisdom/אrjan \ wisdom/hg
00:45:34 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -REsil oerjan wisdom | tail -n+18
00:45:40 <shachaf> The worst thing about regular expressions is that every program has a different set of characters that need to be escaped.
00:45:46 <shachaf> Some programs have multiple sets depending on which mode.
00:45:52 <shachaf> I can never remember which is which.
00:46:47 <shachaf> whoa, what if e.g. vim syntax-highlighted regular expressions as you typed them?
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05:25:59 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54853&oldid=54852 * Nobody * (+20) /* Examples */
05:26:11 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54854&oldid=54853 * Nobody * (+0) /* Examples */
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06:14:47 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54855&oldid=54854 * Nobody * (+69)
06:17:16 <\oren\_> What if a language had the phoneme inventory: p t k f s x and nothing else
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06:43:55 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54856&oldid=54855 * Nobody * (+54)
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06:56:09 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54857&oldid=54846 * Nobody * (-12)
06:56:41 <esowiki> [[UPLAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54858&oldid=54856 * Nobody * (-794) Blanked the page
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10:45:27 <fungot> boily: ah in 31 lines of haskell rewritten in scheme,
10:46:07 <fungot> int-e: you could rewrite the source addresses of packets in the prerouting chains and that way make it a local'
10:46:22 <int-e> fungot: you on a roll
10:46:23 <fungot> int-e: but before that we had, using a condition is signalled, or in general? does it involve the president being captured by ninjas?
10:47:31 <int-e> fungot: I really hope it does.
10:47:31 <fungot> int-e: fnord fnord i try testing the scke stuff....) how far you'd get. :p
10:47:47 <int-e> fungot: but now you lost me.
10:47:47 <fungot> int-e: your fnord directory there. could visit. what's my fnord now. thanks riastradh
10:48:05 <int-e> fungot: fnord you too
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15:20:03 <izabera> 0 is a number with euler characteristic 0
15:20:05 <izabera> 2 is a number with euler characteristic 2
15:20:23 <Taneb> In some fonts 0 has Euler characteristic -2
15:20:45 <Taneb> But that's what I do best!
15:21:08 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
15:21:21 <uplime> hrm... does HackEso do zwsp?
15:21:25 <Taneb> When did I invent Italian
15:21:48 <int-e> `slwd tanebventions//s/comma,/comma, ruin,/
15:22:05 <int-e> `slwd tanebvention//s/comma,/comma, ruin,/
15:22:06 <HackEso> tanebvention//Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
15:24:07 <int-e> I think it's perfect ;)
15:24:35 <int-e> I mean I'm reading this as ruined ruins.
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15:26:00 <wob_jonas> izabera: on the Euler-characteristic of digits, see the IOCCC entry http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2004_kopczynski , a one-liner that recognizes written numerals from their Euler-characteristic
15:28:16 <izabera> ioccc is always a very humbling experience
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15:31:35 <int-e> `learn ruin//Ruin lies in ruins after a ruined ruination by Taneb.
15:31:37 <HackEso> Learned 'ruin//ruin': ruin//Ruin lies in ruins after a ruined ruination by Taneb.
15:31:58 <int-e> Taneb: but maybe this is worse ;-)
15:33:16 * int-e idly wonders how tired Taneb is of the Tanebventions meme.
15:33:38 * Taneb has been kind of tired of it for a few years now
15:33:46 * Taneb is kind of tired in general right now, though
15:34:56 <int-e> . o O ( All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. )
15:38:43 <shachaf> int-e: please fix that learn twh
15:39:54 <wob_jonas> also, what's the deal with le/rn versus le//rn ? didn't those too use to be different a few years ago?
15:40:18 <shachaf> Yes, but then oerjan merged them.
15:40:36 <HackEso> stat: cannot stat 'wisdom/ruin': No such file or directory
15:41:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, someone fixed forget to remove the directory after I messed that up
15:41:58 <int-e> shachaf: I was just amused by having four different forms of "ruin" in one sentence.
15:42:16 <int-e> shachaf: So if you didn't get it you were probably looking too deep.
15:42:30 <shachaf> Where did Taneb get involved?
15:42:46 <int-e> "<izabera> don't ruin everything <Taneb> But that's what I do best!"
15:43:37 <int-e> have I ever not...
15:43:51 <wob_jonas> Taneb is almost always involved. he's invented so many things.
15:43:56 <Taneb> The one thing there I did actually invent
15:44:01 <Taneb> Doesn't have a wisdom entry
15:44:27 <shachaf> Taneb: Are you coming to BayHac in two weeks?
15:44:28 <HackEso> adventure:You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17." \ extreme ironing:Extreme ironing is an esoteric sport in a similar sense as esoteric programming languages. \ extreme irony:Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing. \ inory:I
15:44:36 <Taneb> shachaf: sadly not I'm afraid
15:44:39 <HackEso> Inorically, inory is when you say something is irony that really isn't. Someone who does this is an inorite.
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16:50:48 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170 1836311903 2971215073 4807526976 7778742049 12586269025 20365011074 32951280099 53316291173 86267571272 139583862...
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18:41:02 <HackEso> olist 1117: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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19:22:49 <\oren\_> I need a user CSS that removes anything "trending" anywhere on the internet. it's never good
19:24:57 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1.04858e6 2.09715e6 4.1943e6 8.38861e6 1.67772e7 3.35544e7 6.71089e7 1.34218e8 2.68435e8 5.36871e8 1.07374e9 2.14748e9
19:25:04 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 16777216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824 2147483648
19:25:49 <lambdabot> [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,2...
19:26:19 <wob_jonas> hehe, that's an interesting way to say that
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19:45:48 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54859&oldid=54805 * DMC * (-72) /* Commands */
19:54:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Bitter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54860 * DMC * (+122) Created page with "Thanks to [[User:Ais523]] for adding the part on Computational class. I was trying to find a way to explain it coherently."
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20:13:36 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54861&oldid=54800 * DMC * (-74)
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20:19:13 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54862&oldid=54861 * DMC * (-7)
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21:48:06 <wob_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20180417.html
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00:13:52 <oerjan> i suppose none of them happen to be quines.
00:14:08 <oerjan> it didn't even differ.
00:14:13 <HackEso> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?$c&8?",":"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\n");
00:14:31 <HackEso> 8838:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?$c&8?",":"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\\n");\' \ 8837:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\\n");\' \ 8836:2016-07-24 <wob_jona
00:14:40 <HackEso> 2/4:jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"C",pack"h2",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\\n");\' \ 8835:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $\'#!/usr/bin/perl\\n\'\'$c=unpack"C",pack"h",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&8?".":""),"\\n";\' \ 8834:2016-07-24 <wob_jonäs> `` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $
00:15:15 <shachaf> Is there some sort of standard compactification functor that takes the naturals to the extended naturals and the reals to the extended reals?
00:16:12 <oerjan> oh i see the difference was a newline, so invisible.
00:18:46 <oerjan> there's the alexandrov compactification, but that only adds 1 point.
00:20:28 <oerjan> shachaf: what exactly do you mean by the extended naturals and reals? adding negative and positive infinity?
00:21:11 <oerjan> i think that's particularly hard to do for naturals, since they are topologically discrete so the order isn't a topological property
00:21:40 <oerjan> which means you cannot canonically choose what sequences have limits -inf vs. +inf
00:22:09 <oerjan> for the reals it seems possible at least.
00:22:22 <shachaf> For N I want to add +inf, for R I want to add +inf and -inf
00:22:38 <shachaf> I guess for Z I want to add -inf too, which is a good argument that it's not really just a topological thing.
00:23:24 <shachaf> What do I want to do for R^2?
00:23:27 <oerjan> so you'd want a completion as ordered topological spaces
00:23:44 <oerjan> which doesn't work for R^2.
00:24:01 <shachaf> But talking about limits for R^2 makes sense.
00:24:41 <shachaf> I'm trying to figure out whether L, defined as Lf(x) = lim_{y -> x} {f(y)}, is some sort of functor.
00:26:28 <oerjan> you have the Stone–Čech compactification which adds heaps of points.
00:27:12 <shachaf> Well, I don't mind restricting it.
00:27:53 <shachaf> Apparently one-point compactification is a functor if you restrict it to proper maps (where preimages of compact subsets are compact).
00:28:26 <shachaf> Also I think I want to extend Q to the extended reals? To make limits work.
00:28:40 <shachaf> This might be a pretty ad-hoc non-functor.
00:28:55 <oerjan> for R^2 you might want a circle, for the projective plane.
00:29:11 <shachaf> A circle is what I was thinking.
00:29:29 <oerjan> although maybe not identifying opposite directions.
00:29:36 <oerjan> i mean the circle at infinity.
00:30:13 <shachaf> How are limits of functions : R^2 -> R usually defined?
00:31:19 <oerjan> i suppose it's not topological either, though, since you can deform R^2, like e.g. rotating each point proportionally do its distance from (0,0).
00:31:59 <oerjan> so lines through the origin would become spirals
00:33:15 <oerjan> you pretty much need to define something like a path to take the limit along
00:33:30 <oerjan> (universally, a net or filter.)
00:38:21 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_(topology) is a different method that actually adds two points to R, but only one to R^2.
00:41:53 <oerjan> found in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compactification_(mathematics)#Other_compactification_theories
00:43:46 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, that's interesting.
00:44:18 <shachaf> Whata does it do to discrete spaces?
00:48:24 <shachaf> the end compactification is not always compact #scow
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00:51:12 <shachaf> Hmm, is Lf(Lg(x)) = L(f.g)(x) anyway, even disregarding infinity?
00:51:54 <shachaf> That would mean lim_{y -> lim_{z -> x}{g(y)}}{f(z)} = lim_{z -> x}{f(g(z))}
00:58:47 * oerjan suddenly noticed he'd forgot to close the veranda(?) door
00:59:05 <oerjan> it took surprisingly long to get cold enough to notice
00:59:10 <lambdabot> ENVA 180050Z 07003KT 310V120 CAVOK 10/02 Q1014 RMK WIND 670FT 16008KT
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00:59:33 <HackEso> hello hello hello, what's all this then?
00:59:42 <HackEso> `hello prints variants of hello, world. To control format, pass a single letter as command-line argument. "@"=>"hello, world", "H"=>"hello, world.", P=>"hello, world!", "X"=>"hello, world,", take 1 letter later to s/h/H/, 2 letter later to s/d,/d/, 4 letter later to s/w/W/, lowercase to remove newline.
01:00:10 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i know. i just wondered if any combination was a quine, but that won't work.
01:00:41 <wob_jonas> yeah, it won't work because this always prints the comma
01:00:52 <wob_jonas> it doesn't always print the comma, I'm stupid
01:02:46 <oerjan> <shachaf> Hmm, is Lf(Lg(x)) = L(f.g)(x) anyway <-- it seems to me you could carefully construct f and g so that f.g was nowhere defined but Lf and Lg are total.
01:03:57 <oerjan> wob_jonas: it doesn't work because the command character must be W or w, neither of which works.
01:05:06 <oerjan> shachaf: like, f and g could be identity functions on two disjoint dense subsets of R.
01:08:01 <oerjan> still might work with something like Cantor dust?
01:10:11 <oerjan> if the inverse of a compact set is compact, then any added limit must be infinite, mustn't it?
01:10:38 <shachaf> Also this L operates on partial functions, I guess.
01:10:59 <oerjan> yeah i sort of interpreted it like that.
01:12:05 <oerjan> it might be different if Lf(x) requires f to be defined in (some neighboorhood of x)\{x}.
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01:28:25 <oerjan> `` grwp oerjan | wc -l # why you all forget grwp
01:28:49 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cbt: not found
01:29:04 <shachaf> `mkx bin/cbt//cat bin/"$1"
01:29:10 <HackEso> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
01:30:21 <oerjan> `learn `cbt was the moment when bin/ jumped the shark.
01:30:23 <HackEso> Learned '`cbt': `cbt was the moment when bin/ jumped the shark.
01:31:52 <oerjan> i suppose i cannot complain that it doesn't fit our naming scheme.
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01:32:07 <HackEso> cat: bin/cwt: No such file or directory
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01:35:01 <shachaf> oerjan: come on, bin/ was way past the shark
01:35:28 <shachaf> Also "our naming scheme" is terrible and ad-hoc
01:36:08 <HackEso> cat: bin/grbp: No such file or directory
01:39:29 <oerjan> `le/rn taah//TaAH (Terrible and Ad-Hoc) is the naming scheme used for HackEso commands. It is highly acronymous and portmantic.
01:39:30 <HackEso> Learned 'taah': TaAH (Terrible and Ad-Hoc) is the naming scheme used for HackEso commands. It is highly acronymous and portmantic.
01:41:30 <HackEso> `! \ `# \ `fetch \ `help \ `hoag \ `run \ cookie \ guarantee \ hackego \ hackeso \ list \ med \ prefixes \ print_args_or_input \ ruddy \ source \ test \ tmp \ warranty \ web access \ zarutian \
01:41:54 <oerjan> `,2 grwp -i -l hackego
01:42:25 <oerjan> `,1 grwp -i -l hackego
01:42:26 <HackEso> 1/1:grep: invalid option -- ' ' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try 'grep --help' for more information.
01:42:51 <HackEso> 1/1:`! \ `# \ `fetch \ `help \ `hoag \ `run \ cookie \ guarantee \ hackego \ hackeso \ list \ med \ prefixes \ print_args_or_input \ ruddy \ source \ test \ tmp \ warranty \ web access \ zarutian \
01:43:13 <oerjan> `1 grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1 | cat -v
01:43:26 <shachaf> i propose using a different naming scheme for hackego and hackeso hth
01:43:57 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.5467
01:44:01 <oerjan> `1 grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1 | hexdump
01:44:03 <HackEso> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: hexdump: command not found
01:44:14 <oerjan> `` grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1 | xd
01:44:14 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: xd: command not found
01:44:20 <oerjan> `` grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1 | xxd
01:44:21 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: xxd: command not found
01:44:28 <HackEso> 000000 61 0a >a.< \ 000002
01:44:44 <oerjan> `` grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1 | hd
01:44:45 <HackEso> 000000 e3 80 80 0a >....< \ 000004
01:45:09 <oerjan> i suppose that's unicode.
01:45:42 <oerjan> `` icode "$(grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1)"
01:45:43 <HackEso> [U+3000 IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE]
01:47:59 <oerjan> shachaf: that also exists for portmantophobes
01:48:12 <oerjan> (except it still is one)
01:48:31 <oerjan> `` \? "$(grwp -i -l hackego | tail -n 1)"
01:48:32 <HackEso> is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters.
01:50:24 <HackEso> * oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits
01:50:35 <HackEso> cat: junk/bdsmreclist: No such file or directory
01:50:44 <oerjan> `doag junk/bdsmreclist
01:50:46 <HackEso> 7943:2016-05-07 <fizzïe> ` rm -r junk # it\'s junk \ 7876:2016-05-06 <shachäf> ` mv bdsmreclist junk/
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01:54:02 <oerjan> <shachaf> whoa, what if e.g. vim syntax-highlighted regular expressions
01:54:43 * oerjan was just testing if the irssi line joining had somehow fixed itself.
01:58:50 <oerjan> <\oren\_> What if a language had the phoneme inventory: p t k f s x and nothing else <-- sounds like something you could use for a fantasy reptile species
02:02:30 <oerjan> hm with fizzie's length adjustment there should now be room for many more tanebventions
02:02:49 <wob_jonas> oh yeah, I wanted to comment on that. according to http://wals.info/chapter/2 , all spoken languages surveyed in WALS have vowels.
02:02:50 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
02:03:00 <shachaf> Maybe some other people should tanebvent things and give Taneb a break.
02:03:03 <oerjan> certain wisdoms are bound to grow.
02:04:18 <wob_jonas> all languages surveyed in that chapter, at least
02:04:57 <wob_jonas> We might have to split the tanebventions properly, with the top-level wisdom only linking to three to eight other wisdoms.
02:05:12 <shachaf> `` grwp '' | sort-by-lengths | tac | tail -n+2
02:05:13 <HackEso> ance:Spelling of -ance/-ence words: advance, science, conference, experience, finance, insurance, licence, performance, reference, assistance, balance, defence, difference, distance, evidence, acceptance, appliance, audience, compliance, importance, influence, instance, intelligence, maintenance, preference, presence, sentence, sequence, substance, violence, absence, accordance, alliance, appearance, assurance, attendance, circumstance, clearance, confiden
02:05:16 <shachaf> `2 grwp '' | sort-by-lengths | tac | tail -n+2
02:05:18 <HackEso> 2/343:nfidence, consequence, entrance, excellence, existence, fragrance, governance, guidance, independence, offence, refinance, residence, resistance, romance. \ o:o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble i
02:05:19 <wob_jonas> like tanebventions: math, tanebventions: foods, tanebventions: other
02:05:26 <HackEso> 3/343:nto a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, essentially, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order, so they get their personal problems taken care of before the final battle. And it's a comedy. \ zarutian:You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows mor
02:05:45 <HackEso> 4/343:e about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers. He is also known for making rather long HackEgo wisdom entries. Take for instance this entry. It has a whole subentry just on Icelandic unnerver. Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own. \ brilliant:B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐
02:06:23 <wob_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type f -exec wc -c {} \; | sort -n
02:06:40 <wob_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type f -exec wc -c {} \; | sort -nr
02:06:42 <HackEso> 1 wisdom/nak \ 1 wisdom/output \ 3 wisdom/cakeprophet \ 3 wisdom/doesthiswork \ 3 wisdom/døsthiswork \ 4 wisdom/døsthiswørk \ 4 wisdom/nooga \ 4 wisdom/Э \ 4 wisdom/э \ 7 wisdom/dy \ 7 wisdom/thanks ants \ 8 wisdom/him \ 9 wisdom/quine \ 9 wisdom/reversal \ 9 wisdom/whom \ 10 wisdom/for further details \ 10 wisdom/k \ 10 wisdom/watch \ 11 wisdom/haiku \ 11 wisdom/something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom \ 12 wisdom/1*1 \ 12 wisdom/? \ 12 wisdom/did \
02:06:57 <HackEso> 604 wisdom/ance \ 568 wisdom/o \ 557 wisdom/zarutian \ 477 wisdom/brilliant \ 430 wisdom/̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞ \ 429 wisdom/welcome.ru \ 420 wisdom/ᛁᚿ \ 406 wisdom/time cube \ 380 wisdom/speedy gonzales \ 350 wisdom/hydra \ 350 wisdom/can't \ 347 wisdom/wisest
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02:07:52 <HackEso> o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, essentially, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not i
02:07:54 <wob_jonas> ``` find wisdom -type f -exec wc -c {} \; | sort -nr | tail -n+8
02:08:12 <HackEso> 406 wisdom/time cube \ 380 wisdom/speedy gonzales \ 350 wisdom/hydra \ 350 wisdom/can't \ 347 wisdom/wisest human \ 347 wisdom/gene ray \ 345 wisdom/tmp \ 343 wisdom/taneb \ 343 wisdom/select \ 340 wisdom/ent \ 336 wisdom/drone sex \ 334 wisdom/tanebvention \ 334 wisdom/font \ 329 wisdom/welcome.es \ 326 wisdom/hppavilion \ 325 wisdom/boily \ 323 wisdom/aristotle \ 319 wisdom/links \ 318 wisdom/=@ccc \ 315 wisdom/title \ 314 wisdom/sex \ 314 wisdom/#esoter
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02:08:23 <HackEso> 2/2:ot in that order, so they get their personal problems taken care of before the final battle. And it's a comedy.
02:08:23 <HackEso> Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA.
02:08:26 <HackEso> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
02:08:29 <HackEso> Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA.
02:08:46 <HackEso> 7954:2016-05-07 <b_jonäs> `` cp -vi wisdom/gene\\ ray wisdom/wisest\\ human
02:08:48 <HackEso> 7973:2016-05-08 <b_jonäs> `` mv -vi wisdom/{professor\\ ,}gene\\ ray \ 7972:2016-05-08 <b_jonäs> `` mv -vi wisdom/{,professor\\ }gene\\ ray \ 7953:2016-05-07 <b_jonäs> slashlearn Gene Ray/Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Acad
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02:13:28 <HackEso> the neverending work//The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time.
02:14:33 <oerjan> wob_jonas: what i meant is that since HackEso's line limit is longer now, it will take longer before tanebventions need more splitting.
02:15:22 <wob_jonas> oerjan: um, ok, although we might want to display wisdoms in mediums other than full hackeso lines, such as in `5 w
02:15:42 <wob_jonas> but who am I to complain about long wisdoms, when I'm the one who created half of them?
02:16:21 <oerjan> sure, but we've tried to keep most of them below the limit.
02:18:24 <shachaf> For April Fools' day we should have put some inaccurate entries in the wisdom database.
02:21:53 <oerjan> shachaf: shocking. also the bot was dead then, that's why the password was so late...
02:22:24 <HackEso> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
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02:43:54 <wob_jonas> This is terrible. The C++ language has grow so huge that among the documents in http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/#mailing2018-04 , for some of the ones that are dated to 2018-04-01, I can't even reliably tell if they're supposed to be april fool jokes or serious. (some are obviously april fools jokes)
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03:03:06 <shachaf> oerjan: Should chunking be done in `n instead of when generating tmp/spout?
03:04:56 <shachaf> That would let `1 be used as a pastebin.
03:05:07 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/spout
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03:52:59 <HackEso> cat: bin/spout: No such file or directory
03:53:04 <HackEso> distort "${2:-/dev/stdin}" | spore "${1-1}"
03:54:51 <oerjan> `mkx bin/sport//cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" >tmp/spout.raw; distort spout.raw | spore "${1-1}"
03:54:59 <HackEso> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/distort", line 5, in <module> \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'spout.raw' \ 1/0:
03:55:17 <oerjan> `mkx bin/sport//cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" >tmp/spout.raw; distort tmp/spout.raw | spore "${1-1}"
03:55:23 <HackEso> 1/2:usual suspect//There are 3.99 usual suspects in #esoteric, but they're usually rounded up. \ york//York used to be known as Amsterdam. \ hppavilion_m//hppavilion_m is the hppavilions modulo m \ false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. \ alumni//Alumni is a compromise spelling suggested to solve the aluminum vs aluminium debate that never really caught on, except in a
03:55:31 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/sport.raw
03:55:51 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/spout.raw
03:56:24 <oerjan> shachaf: seemed simpler
03:56:42 <shachaf> There isn't much of a reason to split on write instead of on read.
03:56:47 <shachaf> Unless you want to support fancy Unicode, I guess.
03:57:07 <oerjan> it makes it easier to calculate total line number
03:57:18 <shachaf> But the original reason to split on write was that this was designed for `5 which printed 5 lines and I wanted it to take less space.
03:57:34 <shachaf> We can always go back to the old days.
03:57:37 <HackEso> 656) <oklopol> i think i'll just take the usual route and go do post doc research somewhere far away and never come back and become a drug lord and kill myself
03:57:38 <HackEso> 719) <Taneb> profanity specialities
03:57:38 <HackEso> 432) <Taneb> Well, I'm now experimenting with clients <fizzie> It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud.
03:57:39 <HackEso> 884) <kmc> maybe i like pigeons too much
03:57:40 <HackEso> 805) <Phantom_Hoover> I think the only lesson I can really take away from this experience is "don't fuck around with vampires".
03:57:59 <oerjan> who cares about space in tmp/
03:58:23 <esowiki> [[Three Star Programmer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54863&oldid=54350 * Ais523 * (+34) link to the I/D machine, they're pretty similar
03:58:30 <shachaf> To take four lines of IRC instead of ten.
03:58:47 <shachaf> (spam was written before distort, is what I mean.)
03:59:18 <oerjan> `sled bin/sport//s, , ,
03:59:20 <HackEso> bin/sport//cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" >tmp/spout.raw; distort tmp/spout.raw | spore "${1-1}"
04:00:40 <oerjan> oh hm. well splitting on write means less duplication of work, unless doing fancy and even more brittle file seeking.
04:02:49 <oerjan> . o O ( oklopol went to Brazil for postdoc, i believe. i hope he skipped the next steps. )
04:03:08 <shachaf> how can you skip never coming back
04:05:31 <oerjan> i guess you can only postpone it.
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06:23:52 <esowiki> [[Charm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54864&oldid=54845 * Aearnus * (-133) Corrected the website to link to the glossary
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09:49:10 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lost]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54865 * Ais523 non-admin * (+1150) /* Stringmode */ new section, commenting on the recent edits to the page (which I think may be incorrect, but am not sure enough to edit them out myself)
09:54:27 <esowiki> [[Takeover]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54866&oldid=54795 * Ais523 non-admin * (+0) /* Cat program */ fmt
09:55:43 <esowiki> [[Turing tarpit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54867&oldid=42601 * Ais523 non-admin * (+43) /* Survey */ the I/D machine probably fits here too
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13:50:32 <esowiki> [[RANDo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54868&oldid=54816 * Kamish * (-36)
13:50:41 <esowiki> [[RANDo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54869&oldid=54868 * Kamish * (-19)
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16:47:24 <HackEso> 1133) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
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18:18:12 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54870&oldid=54859 * DMC * (-14) /* The Virtual machine */
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18:45:46 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54871&oldid=54693 * DMC * (+8) /* Grawlix Commands */
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22:09:45 <zemhill__> david_werecat.MV: points 15.60, score 39.38, rank 3/47 (--)
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22:26:40 <zemhill__> web.very_suicidal: points -11.50, score 12.11, rank 45/47 (-40)
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22:36:04 <zemhill__> david_werecat.MV: points 15.02, score 38.30, rank 3/47 (--)
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00:00:11 <zemhill__> david_werecat.MV: points 15.33, score 38.90, rank 3/47 (--)
00:00:59 <zemhill__> david_werecat.MV: points 15.02, score 38.30, rank 3/47 (--)
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01:24:59 <esowiki> [[Mep]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54872 * BradensEsolangs * (+3619) Added more
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01:25:53 <esowiki> [[Mep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54873&oldid=54872 * BradensEsolangs * (-4) Fixed headings
01:26:44 <esowiki> [[Mep]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54874&oldid=54873 * BradensEsolangs * (+7) Fixed that <pre> thing
01:27:20 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54875&oldid=54857 * BradensEsolangs * (+10) Added mep
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01:30:55 <shachaf> So the derivative of f at x is the "best affine approximation" of f around x. Is there some way to make that precise without resorting to the usual definition of derivatives?
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01:46:27 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54876&oldid=54652 * BradensEsolangs * (+189) Vogon Poetry
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02:06:40 <oerjan> . o O ( put it's affine definition )
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02:08:07 <shachaf> Someone gave me a good perspective which is that continuous functions are ones that can be approximated locally by a constant function (degree 0 polynomial)
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02:09:51 <shachaf> And differentiable functions can be approximated locally by a degree-1 polynomial and so on.
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02:10:05 <shachaf> I don't quite know how to make that precise.
02:11:47 <esowiki> [[User:BradensEsolangs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54877 * BradensEsolangs * (+97) Created page with "Braden (or Ikura) is a user who made these languages: * [[mep]] (note: Pongo the penguin made it)"
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02:29:42 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54878&oldid=54865 * Oerjan * (+402) Strings are fine but the programs *are* broken
02:42:13 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54879&oldid=54878 * Oerjan * (+158) /* Stringmode */ Maybe not the quine
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02:51:07 <oerjan> ais523: oh wait he's edited the HW as well, i'd better check if i checked the right versions...
02:53:36 <ais523> what does "HW" stand for?
02:53:44 <oerjan> ok the version _commented_ on is wrong, but the one in the example section was fine before e changed it
02:58:58 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54880&oldid=54843 * Oerjan * (-1054) Revert, because it was based on a faulty assumption, although the version in that section indeed doesn't work, so add a comment on that.
03:01:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54881&oldid=54879 * Oerjan * (+165) Hello, World! too, partly
03:05:12 <oerjan> ais523: there's this meta-PPCG question that keeps coming up that's obviously inspired by you disappearing :P
03:05:33 <oerjan> oh wait that wasn't it now
03:08:14 <oerjan> https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/16137/how-to-request-clarifications-when-the-challenge-poster-has-left-the-site
03:08:57 <oerjan> although to be fair, you had explicitly referred to the standard rules
03:09:30 <oerjan> i suppose it has quieted down (and the only answer was deleted).
03:09:50 <ais523> I'm a believer that the OP shouldn't be in charge of challenge rules anyway
03:10:07 <ais523> making them be in charge even if they've deleted the account to say "really, honestly, this content belongs to the community" makes no sense at all
03:12:09 <ais523> even in https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/13067/who-has-the-final-say-on-a-challenge?noredirect=1 which decides that the author doesn't get the final say full stop, the people arguing for the author to have the final say were arguing that it was based on the author's name being linked to the post
03:14:21 <ais523> fwiw, I /also/ think PPCG should have standard rules for input encoding that should be set in advance per-language
03:14:27 <ais523> which would have solved this problem
03:21:43 <zemhill__> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
03:22:11 <shachaf> The derivative clearly *is* the best linear approximation around a point. So what makes one linear approximation (or another class of approximation) better than another?
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03:45:56 <oerjan> shachaf: |a1(x)-f(x)| <= |a2(x)-f(x)| in some neighboorhood?
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03:46:26 <shachaf> Well, sure. But not in any specific neighborhood.
03:46:43 <oerjan> no, but neighboorhoods are a filter.
03:46:57 <oerjan> so all sufficiently close ones.
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03:52:48 <shachaf> Maybe I should just be happy with "a C^k function is a function that can be locally approximated by a degree-k polynomial"
03:52:51 <shachaf> But I'm not sure I know what that means other than in terms of repeated derivatives.
03:54:47 <oerjan> it may very well be equivalent to there being a unique degree-k polynomial that is "best" in the sense above.
03:56:41 <oerjan> although there might be some technical obstacle i haven't thought of.
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04:01:05 <shachaf> Can you define this without a metric?
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04:14:07 <shachaf> oerjan: So how are you expressing "all sufficiently close ones"?
04:21:43 <oerjan> all contained in a given one.
04:21:55 <oerjan> that's the usual limit of filters.
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04:22:56 <shachaf> So for a function f : X -> Y and a point x : X, and a class of functions G : X -> Y
04:23:26 <shachaf> A candidate approximation of f at x is a function g : G such that g(x) = f(x)
04:23:47 <shachaf> And the best candidate is...
04:23:58 <oerjan> you don't even need g(x)=f(x) to start with
04:25:03 <shachaf> OK, so a candidate is a function g : G
04:25:13 <oerjan> the best candidate is a g0 such that for all g, there exists a neighboorhood O of x such that |g0(y)-f(y)| <= |g(y)-f(y)| for y in O.
04:27:16 <shachaf> Ah, you don't need to say for all neighborhoods of f(x)
04:29:01 <shachaf> I'll go home and think about it then.
04:29:43 <oerjan> as i said, there might be a technical complication i haven't thought of
04:30:04 <oerjan> that might make this not always equivalent to the definition using derivatives.
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04:43:16 <shachaf> Well, do you get the usual definition of continuity from making g a constant functioon?
04:44:01 <shachaf> I mean from making G be constant functions.
04:44:59 <oerjan> hm that may be a problem.
04:45:26 <shachaf> a value g0 : Y such that forall g : Y exists neighborhood A of x, forall x' : A, d(g0, f(x')) <= d(g, f(x'))
04:45:44 <shachaf> I guess that's not unreasonable.
04:46:16 <oerjan> ok it doesn't work for continuity.
04:46:26 <shachaf> But it's not the standard definition.
04:48:44 <oerjan> except maybe not in reverse...
04:49:23 <oerjan> if it's continuous then clearly the constant is best.
04:50:25 <shachaf> I'd expect a definition to say something about "forall neighborhoods of f(x)"
04:51:13 <oerjan> hm and if it's not continuous then you can find an arbitrary close point that's, say, > e above
04:51:23 <oerjan> and then e/2 beats it.
04:52:53 <oerjan> this might be dependent on the range being R, though.
04:53:22 <oerjan> locally compact might work.
04:54:27 <oerjan> well that's an unnecessary complication at this stage.
04:55:23 <oerjan> it will work for R^n, i think.
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09:13:50 <Taneb> Felt like screaming, here felt more or less appropriate place to do it
09:15:35 <sebbu2> were you just forced to write in brainfuck ?
09:15:38 <int-e> (find the missing vowel)
09:16:30 <sebbu2> you forget an S, there was 2
09:16:34 <int-e> right... let's have ä ö ü as well to start a flood.
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11:47:07 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: meta: not found
11:47:19 <lambdabot> EGSC 191120Z 17004KT CAVOK 25/10 Q1023
11:47:38 <Taneb> Get there eventually to get the weather string I don't know how to read
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12:12:24 * wob_jonas looks at the backlog, sees ais523 and PPCG and some calculus stuff
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12:22:50 <HackEso> Titles J. K. Rowling had specifically denied on her webpage would be the titles of the sixth or seventh Harry Potter book are: Harry Potter and the{ Green Flame Torch, Mountain of Fantasy, Fortress of Shadows, Forest of Shadows, Graveyard of Memories, Pyramids of Furmat, Pillar of Storgé, Toenail of Icklibõgg}.
12:23:25 <HackEso> bottom//Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, if not careful. There be balrogs.
12:24:05 <lambdabot> EGLL 191150Z AUTO 16004KT 090V240 9999 NCD 26/10 Q1023 NOSIG
12:24:17 <fizzie> That's just ridiculous.
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12:41:24 <lambdabot> LOWI 191220Z 20003KT 150V290 CAVOK 23/08 Q1027 NOSIG
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16:28:41 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54888&oldid=54814 * Kamish * (-8)
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16:45:33 <esowiki> [[Mep]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54891&oldid=54874 * BradensEsolangs * (+152) Negative numbers!
16:48:06 <esowiki> [[Mep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54892&oldid=54891 * BradensEsolangs * (+48) A little more.
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18:06:51 <lambdabot> EGLL 191750Z AUTO 23009KT 9999 NCD 26/09 Q1022 NOSIG
18:06:58 <fizzie> Aw. My phone was claiming 28.
18:07:16 <Taneb> Might be warmer city-centre
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18:43:12 <danil> ^ul (Underload!):::SSS
18:43:12 <fungot> Underload!Underload!Underload!
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19:54:39 <esowiki> [[User:BoutonIA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54898&oldid=54896 * BoutonIA * (-22) /* My Projects */
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20:15:56 <zzo38> Even if JavaScript had a goto command, they wouldn't use it as much as it is used in C, because it isn't needed as much. You can do all of it without goto, but a few things are more clearly when you do have goto, even though mostly you can do better without.
20:18:08 <FreeFull> A language without goto should at least have RAII
20:19:18 <zzo38> Some programming language it make sense to don't have a goto command, such as Haskell and Verilog, but most programming languages they should include a goto command even though you may have enough other flow controls that goto is rarely needed.
20:19:42 <FreeFull> Besically destructors that automatically run when the object goes out of scope
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20:22:08 <zzo38> There is a try...finally... block in JavaScript
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20:39:04 <int-e> Hehe, jquery.com let their SSL certificate expire?
20:39:47 <int-e> (But I guess it's too much to hope that this will teach people to host their javascript themselves.)
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20:41:59 <int-e> Especially when you can make a technical argument in favor of using a central location like this (as long as it's reliable)... user agents are more likely to have the code already cached. :-(
20:48:23 <zzo38> The other consideration is if the user wants to override the code.
20:48:58 <FreeFull> int-e: Seems they already renewed their certificate
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20:49:17 <zzo38> There could be adding in a HTML attribute to control automatic caching and user overriding of common files such as jquery and so on
20:51:55 <int-e> zzo38: pretty sure that's not a concern that web developers have
20:53:33 <int-e> FreeFull: hmm it /may/ be a CDN issue? "code.jquery.com uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: *.ssl.hwcdn.net, ssl.hwcdn.net"
20:53:55 <int-e> (is what I get for https://code.jquery.com/jquery-3.2.1.min.js)
20:53:57 <ais523> zzo38: RAII is a programminng technique for ensuring that allocated resources are deallocated; the way it works is that whenever you allocate a resource (e.g. taking a lock), you do so in the constructor of an auto/stack-allocated object, and then you have that object's destructor deallocate it
20:54:13 <ais523> this way, it's impossible for the resource to remain allocated outside of the scope it was allocated in
20:54:46 <ais523> the technique is most famous in C++, but you can do it in more or less any object-oriented language (and Rust also uses it despite not really being object-oriented)
20:54:56 <ais523> I use it at work, in Java, to make sure that locks are released
20:55:06 <int-e> (unless you use some smart pointer and explicitly transfer ownership)
20:55:28 <FreeFull> int-e: Oh, they might have a different certificate for code.
20:55:37 <ais523> (Java finalizers work differently from C++ destructors, but Java has a try () {…} statement intended for RAII that calls close() when the object goes out of scope)
20:55:58 <int-e> FreeFull: true, and I didn't think of that
20:56:15 <int-e> FreeFull: indeed the website is fine for me
20:56:19 <FreeFull> int-e: Seems it's the same certificate
20:57:22 <FreeFull> Yeah, must be a caching issue if it's still failing for you
20:59:36 <int-e> yeah it works fine now
21:00:27 <int-e> I guess we'll see later whether it was a bigger issue :)
21:02:34 <int-e> (and the error message I got did not really indicate an expired certificate so that diagnosis (which I saw somewhere else and didn't verify, not that this excuses anything) may have been wrong as well)
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21:24:51 <wob_jonas> ais523: sort of. it's also a technique to ensure that the constructor has run on your objects. that's what the second I means.
21:25:21 <ais523> wob_jonas: I don't think the term means that outside C++
21:25:38 <ais523> maybe the C++ version is a combination of two techniques
21:25:47 <ais523> (this is partly because most languages don't even support partially-constructed objects)
21:26:39 <wob_jonas> And the rustc devs are reimplementing the borrow checker, and I think after that we might be able to get a true goto statement. For now we've just got a lot of reasonably powerful structured control statements with syntax that's slightly less messed up than in ghc.
21:28:26 <wob_jonas> In particular, soon rust will even have breaks out of labeled bare blocks (within the same function body) with values.
21:29:44 <wob_jonas> And it already has breaks out of labeled forever blocks (within same function body) with values.
21:30:52 <wob_jonas> And I don't think we can ever get breaks through function bodies (like perl and ruby have) in rust, because that would break invariants.
21:32:20 <moony1339> wait, reimplementing the borrow checker
21:32:53 <moony1339> because maybe i'll try rust again. (There were a few situations i found where it said "no" when the code was perfectly fine)
21:33:18 <wob_jonas> moony1339: slightly, but part of that is available before the reimplementation
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21:51:24 <ais523> oh right, this reminds me: apparently Java doesn't have a write barrier when a constructor finishes running
21:51:40 <ais523> meaning that if you construct an object and send it to another thread via shared memory fast enough, the other thread can see it nonconstructed
21:51:53 <ais523> this struck me as very weird for an allegedly memory-safe language
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21:57:43 <wob_jonas> um what? isn't it most forms of sending to another thread where you're supposed to have a synchronization? that is, there's a mutex or something involved when you pass the object to the other thread. or do you mean the constructor of a thread itself?
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21:58:07 <wob_jonas> um what? isn't it most forms of sending to another thread where you're supposed to have a synchronization? that is, there's a mutex or something involved when you pass the object to the other thread. or do you mean the constructor of a thread itself?
21:58:25 <wob_jonas> ais523: and is that across java threads?
21:58:38 <ais523> wob_jonas: no, I mean something like construct an object and store it in a global variable, a different Java thread reads the variable
21:59:03 <ais523> and it can see it nonconstructed because there's no write barrier between the writes inside the constructor and the write outside the construcotr
21:59:05 <ais523> Java's threading rules are weird
21:59:52 <wob_jonas> um. but is java supposed to be memory safe across multiple threads in that way? because there are languages that are memory-safe in one thread but not memory safe if you access objects shared between threads without locking, namely at least golang and perl5.005 Thread
22:00:05 <wob_jonas> C++ could count too if you keep some rules about memory safety
22:00:29 <wob_jonas> (i.e. basically no pointers or iterators)
22:02:31 <wob_jonas> ais523: is that only for constructing an object? that is, could it also be memory unsafe if you just access the same object from two threads so one thread observes it in an inconsistent state, without constructing anything?
22:03:41 <ais523> wob_jonas: the last suggestion is also unsafe but it's less surprising
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22:07:09 <wob_jonas> ais523: ok, I guess that makes a bit of sense
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22:48:27 <zzo38> I wanted to make up a Magic: the Gathering card having "protection from cards" (it is not protected from tokens, emblems, copied spells, etc). I thought, if it is a creature card then it could have something like how Hunted Horror forces opponent to create creature tokens, now they can block this one; but unlike Hunted Horror those tokens are not protected from this card
22:56:02 <ais523> hmm, that'd normally be written as "protection from nontokens" but that would work against spell copies too, which isn't what you want
22:56:18 <ais523> although, hmm, would it work against abilities? if so, would it work against ability copies?
22:56:51 <wob_jonas> ais523: that depends on where the ability comes from
22:56:54 <zzo38> Abilities have a source which may be a card
22:57:08 <wob_jonas> ais523: the protection rules says that for an activated ability or triggered ability, you check the properties of the object the ability was on
22:57:08 <ais523> and the copy has the same source?
22:57:12 <ais523> whereas a spell copy doesn't have one
22:57:15 <ais523> that's really unintuitive
22:57:48 <wob_jonas> like, with those resonator things?
22:57:50 <zzo38> Some things do copy abilities
22:58:04 <ais523> both activated and triggered abilities can be copied
22:58:44 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Illusionist's Bracers
22:58:45 <HackEso> Illusionist's Bracers \ 2 \ Artifact -- Equipment \ Whenever an ability of equipped creature is activated, if it isn't a mana ability, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. \ Equip {3} \ GTC-R
22:58:51 <HackEso> Rings of Brighthearth \ 3 \ Artifact \ Whenever you activate an ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay {2}. If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. \ LRW-R, MPS_KLD-S
22:59:15 <zzo38> Yes, those are some things which copy abilities
23:00:24 <wob_jonas> there's more. Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient; Strionic Resonator. but there isn't much more than those.
23:00:45 <wob_jonas> they can get into somewhat strange rules situations occasionally.
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23:08:04 <wob_jonas> M:tG now has thirteen card types. I remember back when I joined, before time spiral, there were only seven.
23:08:35 <shachaf> What are the new card types?
23:08:57 <zzo38> Only some of the types are traditional types, of those some are playable types, of those some are castable types.
23:09:13 <zzo38> 300.1. The card types are artifact, conspiracy, creature, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard.
23:09:53 <wob_jonas> shachaf: Planeswalker became a permanent addition since Lorwyn, Tribal temporarily used in the Lorwyn block, Plane and Phenomenon for an older casual multiplayer game mode, Scheme for a newer multiplayer casual game mode.
23:11:01 <wob_jonas> oh, and conspiracy, an even newer game mode used in drafts only
23:12:15 <zzo38> Do you have any copy of the entire history of Magic: the Gathering rules? I want to generate diffblames of them
23:12:34 <wob_jonas> those casual card types are well separated from everything so they don't unexpectedly affect things, in particular, cards of those types don't enter the normal zones (library, hand, stack, bf, gy)
23:12:47 <wob_jonas> zzo38: no, but I have a copy of many older comp rules versions
23:13:04 <wob_jonas> not the entire history, some versions are skipped, and they don't go back forever of course
23:13:16 <shachaf> They don't publish all historical versions of the rules?
23:13:42 <wob_jonas> you can also look at yawgatog, which has some diffs, but last I've seen the old versions of the rules aren't downloadable
23:13:55 <zzo38> Yes I saw Yawgatog but they don't have all of them
23:14:01 <wob_jonas> shachaf: yeah, typical modern web, everything they publish quickly disappears and you can't find information about old sets
23:14:11 <wob_jonas> zzo38: do you want a copy of the ones I have?
23:14:53 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, and then I will look to see who has others, to make a complete collection
23:15:23 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you can try to ask yawgatog directly, he might have it
23:15:32 <wob_jonas> zzo38: what was your email address?
23:16:18 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I have no "main" email address, only aliases; I can define a new alias if I need to do so.
23:17:02 <zzo38> Are they plain text files?
23:17:21 <zzo38> That is what I am looking for. (If they contain non-ASCII characters I can fix that myself to contain only ASCII)
23:17:54 <ais523> wob_jonas: I guess a better question would be "zzo38: what email address should I use to send you emails?"
23:18:10 <ais523> although I normally mentally translate the former question into the latter anyway
23:18:32 <ais523> I currently have five email mailboxes, which are collectively the targets of more than five email addresses
23:19:51 <wob_jonas> zzo38: some are plain text, one is in pdf format, plus I have some setFAQs which are in word doc or rtf, but those are easier to find elsewhere
23:20:44 <wob_jonas> I also have some older snapshots of oracle, although reformatted with a script I created, plus a few of yawgatog's older oracle dumps
23:20:46 <zzo38> I only need the plain text ones since those are the only ones which will be useful to me
23:21:02 <zzo38> Oracle dumps will also be helpful if they are also plain text
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23:21:17 <wob_jonas> the oracle dumps are the large ones really
23:21:50 <wob_jonas> oh right, the one that's in pdf is unnecessary, I have the same version as plain text
23:21:55 <zzo38> I could do without Oracle dumps though; I would be fine to keep track of only functional changes of cards anyways, and don't need Un-cards
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23:23:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't think it's enough to keep track of only functional changes if you want to know the full history of the rules. some changes may not have been functional back then, but are functional if you use different comp rules.
23:27:01 <zzo38> ASCII versions of the Oracle text for Magic: the Gathering cards in a SQLite database is also something that I would want to have possibly, and it can include a table for history too. If a server would provide such thing, a virtual table module could be made which would access them, and you can give a WHERE clause giving the date, which is automatically consumed, in order to retrieve updates.
23:27:53 <zzo38> (However, there are a few things missing from the virtual table mechanism that would be useful to have when doing network access, such as a xInterrupt method, and a way to consume LIMIT/OFFSET clauses.)
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23:32:02 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I recommend trying to download scryfall's database. it's not sqlite, but I think they have the data properly structured, and they even documented their api and formats somewhat. I will try to download it later.
23:33:41 <zzo38> I will look, perhaps. If the API is documented enough possibly it can be interfaced with SQLite (by the virtual table mechanism, although as I said, some things that would be useful for modules that do network access are currently missing).
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23:35:05 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't see why you need a virtual table, since you want to cache the data locally anyway, so you'd just download the whole database every few month (they explicitly ask for that too to conserve load on their servers or bandwidth),
23:35:19 <wob_jonas> unless you want a virtual table to store the history efficiently, such as backed by an svn repository.
23:35:28 <wob_jonas> as in, store the history compactly.
23:36:13 <zzo38> wob_jonas: OK then, if you can just download it, then you can just do that. Still, if it isn't SQLite, then a virtual table module can be used to convert the format (an alternative way would be to use CSV or whatever, that would work too).
23:36:26 <zzo38> Thank you I received the file you sent to me.
23:37:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I don't know if you can download it all in one go. you will probably need multiple queries. but I don't think you'll need to do like 13000 queries for the 13000 cards, they offer batching.
23:37:48 <zzo38> Can you query by modification date though?
23:37:50 <wob_jonas> it might not be trivial to download, but it's still better than to dynamically look up each card, at least if you don't want the images
23:38:03 <wob_jonas> I don't know, I haven't really looked at the details yet
23:38:30 <wob_jonas> the promising part is the documentation, their interactive website ui, and that they fixed a doc bug I reported
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23:44:20 <shachaf> Cale: Maybe you have an idea about this "universal property" for continuous funtions/derivatives/etc.
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23:45:18 <zzo38> The thing is that if it is a virtual table, then you can write: insert into "a" select * from "b"; in order to automatically download everything. (You also have to define the schema, but you only have to do that once. You also need to use .load to load the implementation of the virtual table, of course.)
23:48:24 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, but why not just download everything anyway and put it in a real table? I mean, for a snapshot. I don't think you can download full history from them.
23:49:20 <wob_jonas> This is if you don't include the card images in the "everything". They have card images in multiple resolutions, and all the card images at large res would be a really large amount of data, you probably don't want that.
23:49:21 <zzo38> It is; "a" is a real table and "b" is a virtual table in the example that I gave. Of course depending on the mechanism, there may be better ways than virtual tables anyways, such as CSV, like I mentioned.
23:50:04 <wob_jonas> If you experiment with their api and find something useful, please let me know though. I'm interestd.
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23:51:18 <wob_jonas> You might also be able to download data from the Oracle, but then you have to do fixups for all the bugs they have with transform cards and flip cards, which magiccards.info and scryfalls and yawgatog all individually fix.
23:51:46 <wob_jonas> Also, the new Oracle doesn't let you download large batches at once, unlike the old one, so you have to do a lot of queries.
23:52:01 <wob_jonas> I think it's better to get the data from yawgatog and scryfall.
23:52:26 <wob_jonas> For the cards that is. Getting the comp rules from wizards' webpage directly works fine.
23:53:00 <wob_jonas> I should check if wizards actually has some of the older comp rules downloadable from their server, even if it's not linked from http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/comprehensiverules
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23:56:09 <wob_jonas> ``` ls share/mtg/Magic* # zzo38: there's actually one more in the HackEso home
23:56:10 <HackEso> share/mtg/MagicCompRules-20170925.txt \ share/mtg/MagicCompRules.txt \ share/mtg/MagicCompRules_20160408.txt
23:56:22 <wob_jonas> ``` ls share/mtg/allsets* # zzo38: there's actually one more in the HackEso home
23:56:23 <HackEso> share/mtg/allsets-2016-04-08.txt \ share/mtg/allsets-2016-07-23.zip \ share/mtg/allsets-2017-09-20.txt \ share/mtg/allsets.txt
23:56:30 <wob_jonas> but I assume you're more likely to have the newer versions anyway
23:57:11 <wob_jonas> this older one is still on Wizards' website: http://media.wizards.com/2017/downloads/MagicCompRules%2020170925.txt
23:57:24 <wob_jonas> older ones might be too, but they keep changing their websites so it's hard to guess the correct URL for them
23:58:12 <zzo38> Ah, thank you I will download that one
23:59:17 <zzo38> They put spaces in the filename which they shouldn't do, but it isn't a problem downloading it. The problem is when the filenames inside of a ZIP archive or whatever have spaces
00:00:22 <wob_jonas> you think spaces are bad? they have the date format messed up in one. I've always renamed the files after downloading
00:00:24 <zzo38> Is the URL similar?
00:00:35 <wob_jonas> no, I found that on my computer, in a different directory
00:01:08 <zzo38> I don't need to rename the file after downloading, if it can be given a name while downloading instead (I just use curl to download, usually)
00:02:37 <zzo38> If you put the file on arin.ga or whatever then I can download it; if you find a lot of more files rather than just one then you can send it by the email
00:06:58 <wob_jonas> MagicCompRules_20170707 => https://arin.ga/nfViXZ
00:07:41 <wob_jonas> although it's dated 2017-07-08 in the text
00:07:52 <zzo38> Yes I can see that
00:15:07 <wob_jonas> yawgatog might also have older versions downloadable but not linked, eg. https://yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2017-07-05.zip
00:15:13 <wob_jonas> you might find copies there that I don't have
00:18:35 <wob_jonas> this means I have comp rules versions from more than ten years ago. makes me feel old.
00:19:41 <wob_jonas> by the way, my oracle dumps are actually for the Legacy format
00:20:04 <wob_jonas> so they don't have the few dozen cards banned in Legacy and silver-bordered ones
00:20:15 <zzo38> I thought also making up some Magic: the Gathering cards of some of the characters and events of GURPS game I am in
00:20:22 <zzo38> I don't need silver-bordered ones
00:20:57 <zzo38> However, it is not even "pseudo-Vintage"; some cards are banned in Vintage too (but not in "pseudo-Vintage")
00:21:56 <wob_jonas> I had to filter on something, because if I don't give any criteria, Oracle won't return anything. in retrospect Vintage would have made more sense, but I guess back then I didn't care much about the cards banned in Legacy, because they were mostly old ones
00:22:13 <wob_jonas> I mean mostly old *expensive* cards
00:23:53 <zzo38> Filter by converted mana cost is less than one million; as far as I know, there is only one card (which is silver) that has a converted mana cost of one million and none have more than that.
00:23:58 <wob_jonas> It's a bit different these days, they reprinted Sol Ring in commander sets so it's no longer very expensive, and Mental Misstep is not expensive either
00:24:54 <wob_jonas> for the new oracle, I don't have a download script, they made it more complicated to download because you need to get the cards in many queries continued
00:25:11 <wob_jonas> you can't get most of them in a single html page like I did with the old oracle
00:27:07 <zzo38> Some people have made JSON files with the Magic: the Gathering Oracle texts
00:27:38 <wob_jonas> like Scryfall? I think their API uses JSONs
00:28:06 <zzo38> I mean just downloadable JSON files I have found, not a API
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00:32:04 <zzo38> I also wanted to make the format for representing the card texts in a computer code, and could be like perhaps: <Counterspell> a :Card; :name "Counterspell", "Counterspell"@en; :mana-cost "UU"; :type :instant; :spell-ability [:counter [:target :spell]]. This can be used to implement a computer game; it could automatically compile into a C code or whatever. Xmage doesn't implement text editing effects, but this new way would do so.
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00:32:54 <wob_jonas> zzo38: do you need the names of the cards in languages other than English? because that would be harder to obtain.
00:33:49 <zzo38> wob_jonas: No. (Although this proposed format for computer codes does allow other languages, I don't need them, either for this purpose or for just a archive of Oracle texts.)
00:35:13 <wob_jonas> https://scryfall.com/docs/api has scryfall's docs about their api formats
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00:38:01 <wob_jonas> also, I'm stupid. it wasn't scryfall who fixed a bug I reported. that was a different M:tG-related site
00:38:08 <wob_jonas> still, scryfall seems well-maintained.
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01:19:44 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54899&oldid=54893 * Oerjan * (+346) It was deleted
01:25:32 <zzo38> There are many functions in Scryfall which the SQLite virtual table mechanism does not yet support (you would still be able to write such queries, but those functions would be implemented on the client-side). This includes constraints with OR, negated conditions (in some cases), random selection, pagination, etc. (Some features can be implemented by the use of hidden columns, though.)
01:27:39 <zzo38> I did think of how to improve the virtual table mechanism in many ways, including to allow the sqlite3_declare_vtab() to, in addition to a CREATE TABLE statement, also zero or more CREATE INDEX statements, which ignore the usual rule that the functions it mentions must be deterministic. Another thing is the way to consume LIMIT/OFFSET clauses.
01:28:53 <zzo38> In this way, the virtual table implementation will be able to interpret a query such as SELECT * FROM "SCRYFALL" ORDER BY RANDOM() LIMIT 1; and automatically know to use the /cards/random request, rather than having to download everything.
01:33:23 <oerjan> did lambdabot stop responding to HackEso?
01:33:48 <HackEso> [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L]
01:34:05 <lambdabot> ENVA 200050Z 00000KT 9000 -DZ BKN015 07/06 Q1019 RMK WIND 670FT 29007KT
01:34:14 <lambdabot> KOAK 200053Z 28014KT 10SM FEW025 16/09 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP189 T01610089
01:34:26 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Fri Apr 20 03:34:26 2018
01:34:28 <oerjan> i suppose int-e just got fed up by the `? weather command
01:34:33 <zzo38> (Another problem is that Scryfall does not seem to have a searchable field for last modified time?)
01:35:04 <oerjan> shachaf: spring is springing
01:35:22 <oerjan> soon we might even notice some green
01:35:31 <shachaf> life is skittles and life is beer
01:35:40 <lambdabot> *** "skittles" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:35:40 <lambdabot> n 1: a bowling game that is played by rolling a bowling ball
01:35:40 <lambdabot> down a bowling alley at a target of nine wooden pins [syn:
01:36:00 <oerjan> probably goes well with beer
01:36:23 * oerjan vaguely thought that was just "bowling"
01:37:00 <shachaf> bowling day is tomorrow hth
01:37:16 <shachaf> I guess it's already tomorrow in your time zone.
01:37:52 <zzo38> It says there nine pins, which is difference from the ten pins and five pins bowling, isn't it?
01:37:57 <oerjan> "National Bowling Day is observed annually on the second Saturday in August."
01:38:17 <oerjan> 10 is the triangular one
01:38:17 <shachaf> oerjan: it's a sort of pun on the holiday it actually is hth
01:38:39 <oerjan> howling day? scowling day?
01:38:56 <oerjan> . o O ( scowling day would be shachaf's kind of holiday )
01:39:02 <zzo38> I know how to score five pins at least; the other games I don't know
01:42:16 <oerjan> shachaf: ok it's that day today, but i still don't get the pun...
01:42:42 <shachaf> i'm not an expert in that particular vernacular
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02:20:42 <zzo38> I see nothing about National Bowling Day (or something similar) on the "calendar" command on my computer
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02:30:08 <zzo38> The man page mentions that for calendar.christian and calendar.judaic that the system administrator should update them yearly. However, this is also needed for the calendar.pagan file. Also, there is the problem when in December you want to observe calendar for next year, or in January for previous year, and the use of the C preprocessor with a format that uses a syntax different than C programming.
02:30:51 <zzo38> (I also don't see Chinese New Year mentioned.)
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02:33:27 <zzo38> So I thought, to make up a new kind of domain specific code for specifying dates, including dates of stuff that changes. It can then be compiled into a binary format, into files per year. You might keep only a few years at a time, but a user who want other years can keep their own local copies for other years farther into the past or future.
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07:42:20 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54900&oldid=54524 * Oerjan * (+1209) /* Fueue */
07:43:00 <esowiki> [[Fueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54901&oldid=54461 * Oerjan * (+48) /* Quines */
07:43:25 <esowiki> [[Fueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54902&oldid=54901 * Oerjan * (+1) /* Quines */
07:46:24 <esowiki> [[Fueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54903&oldid=54902 * Oerjan * (+87) /* External resources */ Add TIO
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08:11:39 <int-e> @tell oerjan i suppose int-e just got fed up <-- that's right
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10:24:50 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54904&oldid=54900 * BoutonIA * (+64)
10:25:34 <Taneb> fizzie: same humour as the categorical construction "ne"
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10:28:32 <int-e> . o O ( A categorical cocoon, obviously. )
10:33:42 <lambdabot> CYUL 201000Z 29009KT 15SM -SN OVC045 01/M04 A3001 RMK SC8 SLP166
10:34:03 <boily> -SN... it's April 20 dammit!
10:34:16 <lambdabot> LOWI 201020Z VRB01KT CAVOK 21/06 Q1025 NOSIG
10:34:30 <int-e> boily: well at least it's not freezing? ;-)
10:34:32 * boily AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGHGHGHGHGHGH
10:35:26 <boily> int-ello. there's that!
10:35:28 <lambdabot> EGSC 201020Z 34006KT 9000 NSC 19/13 Q1023
10:35:45 <Taneb> I still can't read meta
10:37:50 <boily> light northerly winds, visibility unoptimal but quite good, no clouds, it's 19 °C, dew point at 13 °C.
10:38:08 <boily> air pressure slightly above normal.
10:42:22 <lambdabot> EGLL 201020Z AUTO VRB03KT 9999 NCD 22/14 Q1024 NOSIG
10:43:40 <fizzie> Also measured on the 20th day (of the current month), at 10:20 UTC.
10:45:25 <Taneb> fizzie: wouldn't EGLC be closer for you?
10:45:36 <Taneb> ...I don't know where you are in London, actually
10:45:45 <int-e> fizzie: how do you like the 2^10hPa pressure?
10:48:03 <fizzie> Taneb: Heathrow is actually a little closer, we're south-westish.
10:49:18 <fizzie> Gatwick is easiest to get to, thanks to trains, even though it's farther away.
10:49:44 <fizzie> (Well, normally easiest. Yesterday it was terrible.)
10:49:53 <Taneb> Easiest from here is Stansted but I think Luton might be closer
10:50:16 <fizzie> Good old "London Luton".
10:50:18 <Taneb> (not counting Cambridge which doesn't have passenger flights)
10:50:28 <HackEso> hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
10:50:49 <fizzie> int-e: Doesn't feel especially binary to me.
10:51:40 <int-e> . o O ( Heads, Tails, Heads. )
10:52:20 <fizzie> hth could be like cadar.
10:53:38 <int-e> Flip a fair coin 10 times. What subsequence of heads and tails is more lilely to occur, HHH or HTH?
10:54:18 <fizzie> boily: cad, cdr, caar, cadr, cdar, cddr, ...
10:55:56 <int-e> > let f xs = length . filter (xs `isInfixOf`) $ replicate 10 "HT" in (f "HHH", f "HTH", f "HTT")
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10:56:13 <int-e> > let f xs = length . filter (xs `isInfixOf`) $ replicateM 10 "HT" in (f "HHH", f "HTH", f "HTT")
10:56:59 <int-e> (I really like this phenomenon)
10:57:18 <boily> > replicateM 4 "HT"
10:57:20 <lambdabot> ["HHHH","HHHT","HHTH","HHTT","HTHH","HTHT","HTTH","HTTT","THHH","THHT","THTH...
10:57:51 <Taneb> > 2 * 520 + 2 * 673 + 4 * 792
10:58:38 <Taneb> Oh, that number's meaningless anyway because most of the patterns will have more than one of the subpatterns in them
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10:59:26 <Taneb> int-e: it is a cool phenomenon
11:00:21 <Taneb> Is there a name for it?
11:02:01 <int-e> I don't know... it really should have one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penney%27s_game is related, at least.
11:09:53 <int-e> But I don't find a name for the coin subsequence case.
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13:45:42 <wob_jonas> Are the toes of Icklibõgg hairy? In Harry Potter and the Toenail of Icklibõgg, did Harry Potter receive help from a hairy toe to defeat the Dark Lord?
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15:27:55 <\oren\_> TIL the {} are mandatory in a C++ try {} catch
15:31:41 <\oren\_> this is annoying because this isn't the case for any other C++ construct
15:31:59 <wob_jonas> \oren\: isn't that only for when the try{}catch replaces the body of a constructor?
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15:33:11 <\oren\_> catch (std::exception &e) std::cerr << e.what();
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15:34:36 <wob_jonas> you're right. the braces after try are mandatory.
15:34:59 <wob_jonas> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/statements#Try_blocks
15:35:20 <wob_jonas> maybe they wanted to avoid another case of the if-else ambiguity?
15:35:53 <wob_jonas> especially since there can be any number of catch arms, as opposed to zero or one else arm
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15:39:38 <wob_jonas> \oren\: this shows that I don't use exceptions much
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17:23:49 <fizzie> The braces for a function body (including in a lambda expression) are mandatory too.
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20:05:37 <shachaf> oerjan: someone pointed out that the definition of continuity we talked about doesn't work for id
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21:56:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 202100Z 31011G22KT 15SM FEW040 BKN060 08/M04 A3018 RMK CU1SC7 CU TR SLP221
22:00:20 <quintopia> yes and with warmth comes...can you guess?
22:01:33 <boily> it hasn't pollened yet. I hope it won't pollen this year. fungotting pollen.
22:01:34 <fungot> boily: i was getting food takes too long a throw." :) swap them around fnord we would realize what this country is so boring now, so i can't provide a traceback because it happened during the download
22:02:06 <boily> because it has S in its name? S is a warm letter.
22:02:21 <int-e> yay, fungot is incoherent for once
22:02:21 <fungot> int-e: so elt is no longer reachable.) i'm mostly thinking about what the step means. you seem to have different bit patterns for these things, but it
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22:57:25 <wob_jonas> quintopia: with the warmth come all the annoying insects.
22:58:01 <wob_jonas> pollen too, sure, but my allergy is triggered more by the types of pollen in late summer, so I'm not bothered yet.
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23:10:21 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, https://micromath.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/donald-knuth-calculus-via-o-notation/ is a good perspective on this.
23:10:31 <shachaf> f is continuous at x if f(x + ε) = f(x) + o(1)
23:10:40 <shachaf> f is differentiable at x (with derivative f'(x)) if f(x + ε) = f(x) + f'(x)ε + o(ε)
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23:57:30 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54905&oldid=54904 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Cheating Quines */ deorr
00:06:36 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ptlist: not found
00:11:31 <shachaf> What's the general definition of O/o? What sorts of spaces can it be defined in?
00:16:36 <oerjan> well the domain is pretty flexible.
00:17:13 <oerjan> the range needs to have some kind of absolute value to turn into a non-negative real.
00:19:05 <oerjan> O(f) is the set of functions g such that there exists C such that |g(x)| <= |f(x)| on the domain, or possibly on some subset of it (like a neighboorhood)
00:20:48 <oerjan> (the allowed restricted subsets being part of the context of the discussion, usually, like a neighboorhood a point when defining derivatives.
00:21:02 <oerjan> oops, somehow never put it in.
00:21:08 <shachaf> But what if you don't have multiplication? Can you define something similar?
00:21:58 <oerjan> for o(f), it should be be *for all* C > 0, and then you pretty much have to have a restricted subset.
00:22:13 <oerjan> (to exclude the inevitable exception points.)
00:23:10 <oerjan> shachaf: well i said the abs should be non-negative reals. you pretty much need multiplication in the range of that.
00:23:59 <oerjan> i suppose you can once again have some kind of filter.
00:24:27 <oerjan> so what you're really looking at are balls around zero, which might be replaced by different neighboorhoods.
00:25:12 <oerjan> no, it really doesn't make sense without multiplication.
00:26:14 <oerjan> maybe you could have neighboorhoods parametrized on |f(x)|.
00:27:00 <oerjan> perhaps this is related to "uniformity".
00:28:39 <oerjan> hm yeah, i think that may be it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_space
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00:29:46 <oerjan> hm i'm still not sure it quite fits the O/o cases.
00:29:57 <shachaf> Maybe this is what I want for that other definition too, instead of a metric.
00:30:18 <shachaf> Since it's about comparing local approximations of f.
00:31:24 <oerjan> "x is closer to a than y is to b" that *does* sound like the right thing for O/o (with a and b = 0)
00:32:06 <shachaf> This entourage definition is pretty complicated.
00:32:13 <oerjan> but you'd need a uniform structure on the whole function space.
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01:18:05 <zzo38> What new Magic: the Gathering cards we will make up? Will you make one up for esoteric programming?
01:19:19 <shachaf> zzo38: First make up a programming language to express Magic: the Gathering cards please
01:20:02 <zzo38> I did, almost. I mentioned on here before some examples
01:21:03 <shachaf> Can it express complicated cards without adding lots of special cases in the rules?
01:23:12 <zzo38> My intention is to do so in most cases, although in some cases that might be too difficult. However, can you give examples? (Note: It is intended only for "customized pseudo-Vintage"; no Un-cards or manual dexterity effects.)
01:25:02 <shachaf> What I want is a game which supports most of the complexity of Magic: The Gathering -- maybe slightly simplified because it doesn't require backwards compatiblity -- but has relatively small core rules.
01:26:05 <shachaf> So most of the keywords in Magic: The Gathering can just be expressed in a "standard library".
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01:26:53 <zzo38> I have made a variation of the rules of Magic: the Gathering, although done so that in most cases the results will be the same, although sometimes errata is needed (this is very rare, though).
01:28:27 <zzo38> I know what you say about "standard library", and with my idea using RDF that would be possible to do, and the node can be given a name, so it can be referenced by name too, although nodes for non-keyword abilities can be ambiguous (the implementation may give it an internal name, although it is not important).
01:31:14 <zzo38> These codes can be used even if the game isn't implemented on a computer; they can be used even for searching, for understanding ambiguous texts better, and possibly others too.
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01:41:11 <zzo38> I have considered for example [!_:a :target :permanent] if the same target is mentioned more than once; this is a "deanonymzing operator" which is nonstandard RDF syntax, although the same thing can be represented in standard RDF syntax too. (My JavaScript program "parse-rdf" supports three syntax extensions to RDF; it can also export fully standard RDF. So, you can use this if necessary.)
01:41:40 <zzo38> (The three syntax extensions are: the deanonymizing operator, the cons-cell operator, and hexadecimal integer literals.)
01:42:06 <shachaf> Yes, of course if a card has an English description I want to generate it from the language description.
01:44:06 <zzo38> Sometimes that is difficult, although sometimes that can be done.
01:44:33 <zzo38> Some effects are simple, such as "Counter target spell" simply becomes [:counter [:target :spell]].
01:45:41 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, maybe the term I was looking for was "germ"
01:46:09 <zzo38> Another example might be "~ deals 3 damage to any target" may become [:damage 3; :to [:target :damageable]] (the :from is not specified because the default value is used).
01:46:38 <HackEso> Batterskull \ 5 \ Artifact -- Equipment \ Living weapon (When this Equipment enters the battlefield, create a 0/0 black Germ creature token, then attach this to it.) \ Equipped creature gets +4/+4 and has vigilance and lifelink. \ {3}: Return Batterskull to its owner's hand. \ Equip {5} \ NPH-M
01:47:03 <shachaf> wob_jonas: a lim_{x -> 0} {f(x)/g(x)} one hth
01:47:19 <shachaf> Anyway I got the term from http://kisonecat.com/teaching/2009/ibl-analysis/little-oh.pdf
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02:00:40 <zzo38> One use of "target damageable" also is in case you do not have "target", such as if you have "enchant damageable".
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05:17:38 <zzo38> What sample rate do you need for television pictures?
05:21:26 <zzo38> Now I added a "ff-dice" program, which is a similar function to "pamdice"
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13:52:07 <lambdabot> LOWI 211320Z 22003KT 170V290 9999 FEW075 SCT300 27/02 Q1018 BECMG 09007KT
14:09:07 <lambdabot> ESSB 211350Z 28015KT CAVOK 17/M02 Q1009
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16:19:17 <esowiki> [[Mep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54906&oldid=54892 * BradensEsolangs * (+68) Periods!
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17:02:08 <BoutonIA> Hello everybody. I do not know why but every time I log in to my account, it does not connect. If I put a bad password, he tells me it's wrong but if I put the right, I just go back to the previous page. I presume that my cookies are enabled and none are blocked. Someone would know why? I also specify that I can connect but only through my laptop.
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17:21:10 <BoutonIA> Re: Hello everybody. I do not know why but every time I log in to my account, it does not connect. If I put a bad password, he tells me it's wrong but if I put the right, I just go back to the previous page. I presume that my cookies are enabled and none are blocked. Someone would know why? I also specify that I can connect but only through my laptop.
17:25:13 <zzo38> Did you check the cookies toensure is work? Try reloading the page?
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18:31:02 <wob_jonas> BoutonIA: what is the URL of the page where you're trying to log in? in particular, try https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:UserLogin , and do not use the http site.
18:36:39 <BoutonIA> wob_jonas Yes indeed, that was it! Thank you !
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02:17:35 <zzo38> I can make up a Magic: the Gathering card: Target opponent draws X cards, and then you gain life equal to twice the number of cards in that opponent's hand.
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02:37:07 <zzo38> What should be the name and mana cost do you think?
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06:09:14 <Cale> zzo38: heh, too bad there's no symbol for "X white phyrexian mana"
06:11:34 <Cale> (That seems like it would be super broken)
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06:53:59 <Sgeo_> Isn't lifegain generally considered not good? And drawing cards to be very good? Maybe if you're about to lose this could buy a little time at a steep cost
06:55:45 <Cale> Sgeo_: Oh, I mean my variant of it which would use an arbitrary amount of phyrexian mana, so you could pay with all but one of your life and make your opponent draw a significant fraction of their deck, which they would lose to hand size restrictions.
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06:56:49 <Cale> (and then you immediately gain more than that amount of life back after)
06:58:26 <zzo38> How good life gain is depends on the circumstances, like with other things. If you have many things that cost a lot of life points or that damage you or cause you to lose life, then is good to use them in a deck with a lot of life gain.
07:00:48 <zzo38> You don't win the game by gaining a lot of life points (unless you have a card that says you do), nor do you win the game by drawing a lot of cards (and if you run out because you draw too many, you lose), although depending what the card that you draw is it might help you to win. And if you are damaged by opponent's cards a lot, then having many life points may give you more time to set up what you need.
07:01:23 <zzo38> Regardless of how many cards you draw though, you can't use them if you do not have enough mana.
07:01:47 <zzo38> So, I think, lifegain is not always "not good" nor is drawing cards always "very good"; it depends on the circumstances.
07:02:05 <zzo38> (And, then, there are also triggers and replacement effects.)
07:05:25 <Cale> Actually, nevermind, that idea is not nearly as broken as I originally was thinking (for some reason when I wrote that I was thinking you'd make them draw as many cards as you were paying life, but it's half as much)
07:08:09 <zzo38> Yes, that is correct, it is half as much.
07:14:04 <zzo38> I thought the X cost should not be Phyrexian, although you may need more than one X in the cost possibly
07:15:24 <Sgeo_> WotC seems to be allergic to Y and Z costs
07:16:14 <Sgeo_> https://scryfall.com/card/btd/37 was printed with a Y cost. Errata'd to not have a Y cost.
07:16:57 <Sgeo_> Although I guess that's not the original printing. Maybe they reworded it just for that beatdown box thing?
07:17:37 <Sgeo_> Oh so they briefly changed it then changed it back https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/return-fireball-2004-01-26
07:19:40 <zzo38> OK, although this spell I proposed doesn't use Y and Z, only X
07:20:52 <Sgeo_> Sorry, that was a bit of a tangent on my part
07:22:40 <zzo38> (There are many things that WotC doesn't want to do that I still would want to do in custom cards, though.)
07:22:48 <zzo38> (That includes banding, too.)
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07:31:31 <zzo38> They do have some article about if you make custom cards, and details about what they will do making the official ones, and some things I agree, such as that you shouldn't use the same name as an official card.
07:32:03 <zzo38> However, I do have two exceptions to that case, which are: [1] If the AST of the new card matches that of the official card with the same name. [2] If you are doing Un-cards.
07:33:02 <zzo38> (WotC seems to have the same two exceptions, sort of.)
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15:00:24 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54907&oldid=54887 * BoutonIA * (-60)
15:09:25 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54908&oldid=54897 * BoutonIA * (-28)
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18:06:21 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you know how I asked for compositing modes where you choose both a Duff-Porter operator and an operator to combine the color values, which your ff-utils and svg can do? It seems that gimp-2.10 can now do some of that as operations between layers. It doesn't do all meaningful combinations, sadly, but still does some of the ones you couldn't h
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18:12:44 <wob_jonas> Basically if you disable the compatibility layer composition setting, then you can open the layer properties menu to choose both the composite mode and, for the regular composite modes where it's meaningful, a duff-porter mode, the latter one called "composite mode".
18:14:29 <wob_jonas> As the duff-porter mode, you can choose Over, Atop, DstAtop, In; but you can't choose Out or DstOut or Xor even though sometimes it would be meaningful and different from the ones you can choose.
18:15:31 <wob_jonas> There's a special composition mode for doing the DstOut duff-porter composition, but you can't combine that with a value composition mode like multiply or screen. You need an extra layer if you want that.
18:16:28 <wob_jonas> Also, I learned of some useful value composition modes, most usefully the ones that gimp call "grain merge" and "grain extract", which add and subtract the color values respectively, but subtract or add 1/2 to the result.
18:17:02 <wob_jonas> Does SVG have that operation? I'd like to have it for fixing up some details in lossy compressed images.
18:22:20 <wob_jonas> In addition to the value composition mode and the duff-porter mode, there are two per-layer composition settings that tell which numeric color value model is used for the formula in the value composition operator and the mask/opacity/alpha composition operations.
18:24:24 <wob_jonas> fizzie: hmm, so the log webpage uses only ten different colors for highlighting nicks? that means I can brute-force it to find a nick that gives me the best color.
18:27:11 <wob_jonas> hmm, does this code determine the color solely from the nick, and it's case-sensitive? let me try to simulate that then
18:29:45 <fizzie> wob_jonas: Yes to both.
18:30:00 <wob_jonas> I want this green color with the class h3
18:30:53 <fizzie> It's the `h = 31 * h + c` hash function over the string, and then % 10.
18:32:13 <wob_jonas> fizzie: not quite, it's also truncated to 32-bit in each step
18:32:13 <wob_jonas> at least if I read the source correctly
18:32:26 <wob_jonas> that makes a difference for non-short nicks I think
18:35:12 <wob_jonas> yes, makes a difference for nicks as long as mine
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18:42:42 <wob_jonas> darn, there's a parity problem. I can only change to the five even-numbered colors by changing the case of the letters in my nick. I have to change something else.
18:42:52 <wob_jonas> zzo38: see the logs above about image composition
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18:45:00 <lob_jonas> let's see like this. now I should be .h3 saturated green
18:45:59 <lob_jonas> fizzie: is there a feature where users can explicitly override there color? is there already some standard for communicating this to other clients on irc?
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18:48:56 <fizzie> I don't think so, at least for the implementations of nick coloring I know of.
18:49:00 <zzo38> Can you show the equation of the composition modes you want? Currently I know neither whether SVG nor Farbfeld Utilities has it (I haven't checked), but I can add it.
18:49:17 <fizzie> There are avatars in IRCv3.
18:49:29 <lob_jonas> zzo38: I know that farbfeld utilities has it
18:49:53 <lob_jonas> oh wait, are you asking about the grain merge and grain extract?
18:49:58 <fizzie> https://ircv3.net/ "What We’re Working On" "Client avatars for display in graphical clients" I think it was that.
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18:54:45 <lob_jonas> zzo38: the equations would be (s+d-32768) for grain merge; and (d-s+32768) for grain extract
18:54:52 <lob_jonas> see also https://docs.gimp.org/2.10/en/gimp-concepts-layer-modes.html
18:55:24 <lob_jonas> mind you, it might be possible to use other modes for a similar purpose
18:55:57 <lob_jonas> but these are at least simple to define and implement efficiently
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18:58:13 <lob_jonas> fizzie: eww. I hate that project. but yes, that's the correct answer, thanks.
18:59:22 <lob_jonas> zzo38: I think ff-compose doesn't have grain merge and grain extract
18:59:52 <zzo38> OK, then I will add those modes.
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19:08:19 <lob_jonas> Another useful thing I learned about in gimp is the displace map filter. The inputs for this are a main image and two black-and-white images, and it moves the pixels of the main image such that each pixel is taken from close to the original location, with horz and vert displacements given by the values in the two masks at that pixel. This isn't new
19:08:19 <lob_jonas> in gimp 2.10, although the anti-aliasing settings for it are new.
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19:14:33 <lob_jonas> The hard light mode might be also usable for that svg composition thing, I think.
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19:51:44 <lob_jonas> zzo38: perhaps http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=Frequently+Asked+Questions should tell how to create a new image with uniform color-alpha values of any size. this isn't trivial, because ff-chess will only create chessboards with square shaped fields, ff-gradient requires you to input the color twice (as two command-line argumen
19:52:04 <lob_jonas> Either that, or add a simple program/script that does this.
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19:55:30 <lob_jonas> I know from practice that creating a solid image is a very common operation, because I keep doing that in gimp and ImageMagick.
19:59:23 <lob_jonas> like exec ff-gradient "$1" "$2" h "$3" "$3"
20:00:03 <lob_jonas> though as an alternative it might take the r g b a values as separate arguments
20:01:08 <zzo38> I could make up a separate program for that if you really need it, I suppose; then you can have them as separate arguments or as a single argument.
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20:01:48 <lob_jonas> zzo38: that part is less important than not having to enter the color twice. even if gradient just had a mode for solid color taking only one color value, it would be better than now.
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20:12:59 <zzo38> I decided to just add a separate program "ff-blank" to make a blank picture with a solid colour.
20:13:34 <lob_jonas> meanwhile I'm reading the ff-composite program, and will try to edit the wiki to describe it a bit better
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20:17:41 <lob_jonas> The solid image is important because ff-compose starts with a background image, rather than a blank canvas of a specified size
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20:20:36 <lob_jonas> Ah, apparently I also have to document ff-matrix
20:20:47 <zzo38> OK, do that too if you want to
20:21:06 <lob_jonas> But ff-composite first. That's more important because the program is complicated.
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20:31:00 <lob_jonas> nice, this ff-blank should work. and if you want a solid image the same size as another image, you can use (ff-blank $(ff-info <"$fname") "$color") . that is sometimes useful if you want to do a simple image color transformation with ff-composite.
20:31:49 <zzo38> I also have two comments about your external link webpages. My Farbfeld Utilities is listed on the green page even though it seem to me the brown page seems more appropriate (together with ImageMagick, GIMP, G'MIC, etc). Also, on the red page underneath "TV Tropes" you may wish to add All The Tropes too (at https://allthetropes.org/)
20:32:26 <zzo38> lob_jonas: Yes you can; I didn't think of that but of course you are correct; an example could be added if anyone wants that I suppose
20:33:24 <zzo38> (Also, GatheringMagic has a puzzle every week too; I look at them, and sometimes even manage to solve them.)
20:34:55 <zzo38> (O, and the forum for Magic: the Gathering is no longer available)
20:35:49 <lob_jonas> zzo38: yeah, I'm a bit behind maintaining that link collection
20:36:34 <lob_jonas> I recommend the GatheringMagic forum for M:tG instead, but I don't know if wizards employees read that
20:38:49 <lob_jonas> hmm, I wonder if you can cause undefined behavior in some of the ff-utils by putting a negative number in the width and height field of the images
20:39:10 <lob_jonas> or with an overflow in addition or subtraction of coordinates
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20:40:31 <lob_jonas> in the process function of ff-composite.c in particular
20:40:39 <zzo38> I some cases it checks, but I do not remember about all of the cases
20:40:57 <lob_jonas> give very large or negative coordinates, then cause either an integer overflow, or indexing out of the array
20:42:05 <lob_jonas> heck, even simpler. in ff-composite.c:main, width*height can overflow an integer
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20:52:18 <lob_jonas> zzo48: in ff-composite.c:process, even if all the sizes and coordinates are small, I don't understand how the code works when the source image is partly outside the dest image. it doesn't seem right.
20:52:58 <lob_jonas> in particular, I don't see a code path that discards some of the pixels of the source image.
20:53:25 <zzo38> If it is wrong, I can fix it. It is possible I made a mistake
20:54:10 <lob_jonas> you discard pixels in two separate short loops of fgetc
20:55:02 <lob_jonas> let me try to understand how those calculations work
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21:09:40 <lob_jonas> zzo38: ok, I think the calculations are correct
21:10:14 <lob_jonas> for small coordinates and small positive image sizes at least
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21:17:18 <lob_jonas> zzo38: in ff-composite:process, in the if (mode&64) branch, is it possible that you are using r,g,b,a uninitialized for some mode parameters?
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21:19:50 <lob_jonas> if the big switch (mode&63) falls through that is
21:21:25 <lob_jonas> and isn't that something a compiler would notice?
21:22:06 <zzo38> I got no compiler warning
21:22:51 <lob_jonas> ok, but still, aren't you sometimes using them for comparison uninitialized, which would be undefined behavior in C?
21:23:00 <lob_jonas> or maybe it wouldn't be undefined behavior
21:23:12 <lob_jonas> still, it could at least cause ugly nondeterminism
21:23:57 <zzo38> Although, you aren't supposed to use numbers that aren't one of the choices. (I could add a check for that, although I think it unnecessary)
21:24:25 <lob_jonas> sure, but you could just zero-initialize the variables
21:24:33 <lob_jonas> would be simpler than to check anything
21:25:10 <lob_jonas> that would be my coding style, mind you
21:26:09 <lob_jonas> I initialize everything unless initializing would cost so much that not initializing is a useful optimization, since in most cases either the initialization is useful or the compiler can optimize it away because it can prove it unnecessary
21:27:26 <lob_jonas> But I do it the functional programming style, that is, I declare an initialize all the variables in the innermost block possible, unless declaring it in a larger scope is an optimization because reinitializing is expensive (which can happen for allocating large buffers)
21:27:54 <lob_jonas> This is useful for more determinism, even if not initializing wouldn't cause ub
21:28:02 <lob_jonas> but I do know that this isn't your programming style
21:29:19 <lob_jonas> in this case putting `default: ` at the start of the switch block would work, and would look more like your programming style
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21:32:45 <lob_jonas> so bit 6 of mode selects a regular composition, and then bits 8, 9, 10, 11 choose a Duff-Porter operation and bit 7 does some sort of magic
21:36:53 <lob_jonas> Nope, only bits 8,9,10 choose a Duff-Porter operation. Bit 11 is ignored I think.
21:37:12 <lob_jonas> which is strange because there's supposed to be 12 Duff-Porter modes
21:37:37 <lob_jonas> but I think that's only because some of them involve flipping the color composition mode, which you don't do here
21:37:57 <zzo38> Yes, I think you are correct.
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22:07:24 <wob_jonas> In ff-composite.c, the color values in data are supposed to contain ordinary color values, not ones premultiplied by alpha, right?
22:08:10 <zzo38> If there is confusing stuff, then that should be fixed by adding comments or whatever, I suppose
22:09:51 <wob_jonas> A=(long long)(z); A=((A>65535?65535:A<0?0:A)*data2.a*data[k].a+(mode&512?0:data2.a*(65535LL-data[k].a)*s)+(mode&1024?0:data[k].a*(65535LL-data2.a)*d))/4294836225;
22:10:09 <wob_jonas> and then the value of A is clamped and written into the color component of data[k]
22:11:39 <zzo38> If that is wrong, then perhaps I could fix it
22:14:33 <zzo38> The question is, if you try it, does it do what is expected?
22:16:58 <wob_jonas> shouldn't it be something like A=(long long)(z); A=A>65535?65535:A<0?0:A; A=(A*((long long)data2.a*data[k].a+(65535LL-data2.a)*(65535-data[k].a)) + (mode*512?A:s)*data2.a*(65535-data[k].a) + (mode*1024?A:s)*(65535-data2.a)*data[k].a)/4294836225;
22:17:26 <wob_jonas> so that the sum of the weights of the three color values used (A, s, d) is always 65535*65535
22:17:51 <wob_jonas> maybe that's not the right formula, but I can't see how the current one can be right
22:18:15 <wob_jonas> wouldn't the current one darken pixels when the source and destination are both partly transparent?
22:18:25 <zzo38> I can fix it if necessary. Did you test it?
22:19:02 <wob_jonas> no, that isn't the right formula either
22:19:24 <wob_jonas> the problem is that the right formula for non-premultiplied alpha is more expensive than any of those, because it involves a division by a variable
22:19:47 <wob_jonas> doesn't it? isn't that how general alpha-blending works?
22:23:16 <wob_jonas> look at https://www.cairographics.org/operators/ , it gives the formulas with non-premultiplied alpha (even though cairo actually uses premultiplied alpha), you can see the division by the resulting alpha value
22:24:59 <wob_jonas> you need the divison because if the source is 1/2 opaque and the destination is 1/2 opaque, then for a plain Over operator (alpha blending), the resulting pixel gets its color 1/3 part from the dest pixel's color, and 2/3 part from the src pixel's color, but the weights for the colors must add up to 1 so the colors aren't darkened
22:26:17 <wob_jonas> that division is there in the more common half of the Duff-Porter modes, although there are apparently also strange Duff-Porter modes that don't do alpha blending
22:27:36 <wob_jonas> That page doesn't tell how the combination of Duff-Porter modes with color composition modes work, but you definitely can't get away without the expensive division if the representation isn't pre-multiplied
22:27:48 <wob_jonas> The weights of the colors must add up
22:28:23 <wob_jonas> except in the case when both the source and destination are completely transparent
22:28:58 <wob_jonas> does that make sense? or am I just tired and stupid?
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22:35:31 <zzo38> I don't know; sometimes I am just tired and stupid too; everyone will make mistakes.
22:36:08 <wob_jonas> let me try to write up how I think it's supposed to work
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00:05:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54909&oldid=54899 * BradensEsolangs * (+16) /* Lutfig */
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00:34:04 <wob_jonas> that describes what I think is the correct semantics, although I have probably made some typos in there
00:35:07 <wob_jonas> Gimp 2.10's semantics is probably the best one, ff-composite should probably do something like that
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00:40:06 <wob_jonas> Also, this changes my previous assessment: Gimp 2.10 actually provides you all the meaningful combinations.
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00:46:31 <wob_jonas> More precisely, Gimp 2.10 provides all the meaningful combinations, and the meaningless one that clears everything as well; except that some combinations you can only get by swapping the source and destination, and you may have to make layer groups (parenthesis in the composition sequence) for that.
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01:36:36 <zzo38> I am trying to fix it now based on the information you have given me, and then we can test it.
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02:13:13 <wob_jonas> zzo38: also, in most of the places where ff-composite uses the / operator on integers, you should probably change it to a round-to-nearest division.
02:15:27 <wob_jonas> I should be able to test ff-composite by eyeball comparing the output to what I get from gimp, on some suitable test images I make.
02:19:29 <zzo38> Now I wrote: c=mode&1024?0:data[k].a*(65535LL-data2.a); e=mode&512?0:(65535LL-data[k].a)*data2.a; i=mode&256?0:data[k].a*(long long)data2.a; and the FF macro as: #define FF(A,z) s=data2.A; d=data[k].A; A=(long long)(z); A=A>65535?65535:A<0?0:A; A=(c*A+e*s+i*d)/65535; Does this look better now? I rewrote the logic for the alpha output although it looks like it will be the same as it was before anyways.
02:20:37 <zzo38> (I didn't compile or commit it yet)
02:21:39 <zzo38> And then I have: if(data[k].a=(c+e+i>4294836225?4294836225:c+e+i)/65535) r/=data[k].a,g/=data[k].a,b/=data[k].a; (And, I suppose, like you, there is possibility I made mistakes too)
02:23:05 <zzo38> Well, I just tried it and it doesn't work either.
02:25:12 <zzo38> (Or maybe I made a different mistake)
02:26:56 <zzo38> One thing I see is that in the equations you have, xF is ignored if C=1, but you mention that for I=1.
02:26:59 <Cale> Hey shachaf, did you see the latest two supermega comix?
02:27:43 <zzo38> You also are inconsistent in what the most common composition function is.
02:28:03 <zzo38> I think those are mistakes you made which is what resulted in my mistakes and why it doesn't work.
02:31:14 <zzo38> wob_jonas: If you fix that document then I will fix my program too.
02:40:02 <HackEso> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
03:03:08 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54910&oldid=54880 * Wheatwizard * (+373) /* Deterministic programming in Lost */
03:05:05 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54911&oldid=54910 * Wheatwizard * (+151) /* Description */ Added description of wrapping
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03:27:45 <esowiki> [[Lost]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54912&oldid=54911 * Wheatwizard * (+444) /* Deterministic programming in Lost */ Added how one obtains the example program.
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08:45:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54913&oldid=54909 * Oerjan * (+193) /* Lutfig */ 2016-2017
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08:51:40 <danil> Is a language implemented in a unimplemented programming language implemented?
08:54:03 <danil> From one side it is, from the other it isnt.
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09:01:22 <danil> fungot Is a language implemented in a unimplemented programming language implemented?
09:01:22 <fungot> danil: sorry, i got the device btw, just need to dig up that quote, though for much of a human being, eating one shouldn't be a problem
09:03:07 <shachaf> `addquote <fungot> danil: sorry, i got the device btw, just need to dig up that quote, though for much of a human being, eating one shouldn't be a problem
09:03:07 <fungot> shachaf: it's what i've been trying
09:03:09 <HackEso> 1323) <fungot> danil: sorry, i got the device btw, just need to dig up that quote, though for much of a human being, eating one shouldn't be a problem
09:03:47 <shachaf> fizzie: it may be time to add some safety features to fungot twh
09:03:47 <fungot> shachaf: the forum was down ( unreachable; the url gave a 404 error, or not saying anything about ppc, didn't know there could be
09:06:14 <fizzie> shachaf: What sort of?
09:06:34 <fizzie> shachaf: By the way, just boarding a flight to MTV.
09:07:18 <shachaf> Weren't you just here a month ago?
09:08:01 <shachaf> fizzie: I'm not sure but a lot of people seem to be making a lot of noise about AI safety nowadays.
09:08:11 <shachaf> I'm just worried about being eaten.
09:09:28 <fizzie> shachaf: I was, but that was just unfortunate scheduling. This time with more of the team.
09:10:16 <fizzie> Oh, that sort of safety. I thought botloop safety.
09:10:51 <danil> Had anyone implemented a refinement type esolang yet?
09:11:04 <Taneb> One channel I was in had a bot which ran brainfuck programs, and a bot which printed web page titles
09:11:19 <Taneb> One of my friends learnt brainfuck to get them to botloop
09:12:02 <shachaf> Did it just execute every line?
09:12:13 <oerjan> Taneb: hi did you see my fueue quines yet hth
09:12:40 <danil> what is a botloop?
09:13:02 <oerjan> danil: it's when two channel bots get into a loop responding to each other
09:13:12 <oerjan> or sometimes more than two
09:13:15 <Taneb> oerjan: I did not!
09:13:40 <shachaf> is a botloop the least defined loop? what's a toploop?
09:14:44 <Taneb> shachaf: this is the webpage: https://runciman.hacksoc.org/~lordaro/bf.html
09:14:45 <shachaf> I guess a toploop is just a continuous function whose domain is a circle.
09:14:57 <Taneb> oerjan: that's really cool
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09:19:19 <shachaf> Also oerjan++ # fuines, I guess.
09:19:34 <shachaf> I knew Fueue existed but I forgot about it.
09:20:33 <oerjan> shachaf: it comes with a ridiculously long explanation, if you click through to the PPCG post
09:26:26 <shachaf> fizzie: Hmm, was that actually a coincidence generated by fungot, or was that string lifted wholesale from the corpus?
09:26:26 <fungot> shachaf: i couldn't find
09:27:37 <fizzie> I don't feel checking on the phone. But it quotes verbatim quite often.
09:27:57 <fizzie> I think they're starting boarding soon. ->
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09:33:50 <shachaf> oerjan: What do you think of adding all immediately-reverted edits to scowrevs?
09:34:50 <oerjan> (also your revert was based on flimsy evidence)
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15:59:51 <danil> fungot: When is your birthday? Do bots have birthdays?
15:59:51 <fungot> danil: c/ fnord of facts! :p?
16:01:21 <danil> Was he released on Thursday?
16:02:41 <danil> 2 more days till fungots weekly birthday!
16:02:42 <fungot> danil: fnord/ extras/ stupidcovers/ fnord this algorithm on larger numbers still, if someone is crazy enough to ask for it as he did...
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17:46:48 <FireFly> Hm, and I was just checking to see if we have a wisdom.ar (but it seems not)
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19:39:15 <HackEso> Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
19:39:17 <HackEso> Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
19:42:18 <wob_jonas> ``` head wisdom/@(milk,cream,sugar,water,coke,drink,soda)
19:42:19 <HackEso> head: cannot open 'wisdom/@(milk,cream,sugar,water,coke,drink,soda)' for reading: No such file or directory
19:42:31 <wob_jonas> ``` head wisdom/@(milk|cream|sugar|water|coke|drink|soda)
19:42:32 <HackEso> ==> wisdom/milk <== \ Milk is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can be extracted from cows. \ \ ==> wisdom/water <== \ Water is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can suddenly fall from the heavens.
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19:57:30 <HackEso> ==> wisdom/moon <== \ moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain \ \ ==> wisdom/sun <== \ The Sun *may* be retroreflectorey, it's hard to be sure.
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20:08:55 <oerjan> `learn Cream is what milk turns into once you beat it into submission.
20:08:58 <HackEso> Learned 'cream': Cream is what milk turns into once you beat it into submission.
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20:16:48 <arseniiv> may I ask if the following language idea already has a name somewhere
20:18:54 <FireFly> in general on IRC, feel free to ask
20:23:04 <arseniiv> idea: the source is a list of definitions; definition is of form `newName variables = applications of any of newName, variables and previous names to each other, or a single one of them`. And that's it, for each name is at most one definition, and there's no typing constraints or fancy pattern matching. (Details about IO and what name to evaluate at the program start are non-essential.) I feel this idea is so simple and elegant to be di
20:23:04 <arseniiv> scovered long ago before me, but don’t know how to find how many times and by what people
20:24:57 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: yes, something like that can work. if you allow partial applications and parenthesis on the right hand side, then you can basically do anything in it that you could do in untyped lambda calculus
20:25:52 <wob_jonas> if you don't allow partial applications (ML/Haskell-style currying) then it gets easier to implement, but you need to add some data constructors and deconstructors or something to store information in
20:26:06 <wob_jonas> I think that can work well to make a simple interpreter
20:26:25 <wob_jonas> you need to allow at least one level of parenthesis in the rhs of the functions definition though
20:26:57 <arseniiv> yeah, partial applications and parentheses are allowed! I have come to it thinking about unwieldiness of combinator calculus: expressions are too long
20:27:26 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: in that case it's basically as powerful as lambda calculus or combinator calculus
20:27:43 <oerjan> it's an equivalent syntax
20:27:49 <arseniiv> yeah I know :D But had it been unthought off really? Can’t believe!
20:28:04 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure _i've_ thought of it before.
20:28:10 <oerjan> and also that i wasn't the first
20:28:21 <oerjan> but i don't remember on the spot what it's called.
20:28:45 <oerjan> it's like a very minimalist haskell.
20:29:17 <wob_jonas> oerjan: it's more powerful because it's untyped
20:30:44 <wob_jonas> depending on whether you evaluate it lazy or strict
20:31:13 <arseniiv> (I wanted to write something using this language and mention it somehow, but didn’t know how. At least you’ve loosen my concerns already, thanks)
20:31:54 <arseniiv> wob_jonas: oh, right, laziness and call-by-need should be a must in this language too (at least, in my preferred variant!)
20:32:26 <arseniiv> it will be more fun that way IMO
20:36:00 <wob_jonas> then it's sort of like untyped lambda calculus, with a syntax that's sometimes shorter and sometimes more verbose
20:36:12 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: you also want to allow circular references between the names, right?
20:38:00 <arseniiv> I could live with self-calls (and calls to any name defined earlier, but not later). I could even without self-calls, but then we need to define `fix` and it has too cumbersome an expression
20:38:29 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: it's not that cumbersome, since this is an untyped language, but ok
20:39:29 <arseniiv> so the user would need to pack letrec-related functions in a pair and define them in one sweep hahaha ]:)
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20:40:34 <arseniiv> wob_jonas: I mean, it has a long expression in S K I combinators and it could have some smaller ones if we define more combinators, but I fear not much smaller overall
20:41:04 <wob_jonas> what? you're not restricted to S K I combinators here
20:41:10 <arseniiv> and when one permits self-calls, it is suddenly just a `fix f = f (fix f)`
20:41:22 <arseniiv> yeah I know, but we should define it through something anyway
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20:45:16 <arseniiv> yeah, it could definitely be quite small. Let’s take Y = λf.(λx.f(xx))(λx.f(xx)), then it’s definable in two lines! A f x = f (x x), fix f = (A f) (A f)
20:46:40 <arseniiv> so one even doesn’t needs referencing the name in its defining expression to be sufficiently happy
20:49:27 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: basically if you have any expression in untyped lambda calculus, you can translate it to this language by turning each lambda into a new named function, where the first few parameters are the upvalues used in that lambda expression
20:52:31 <arseniiv> agree completely, I just for some reason have forgotten earlier about quite simple expressions for fixed-point combinators
20:52:57 <HackEso> Y is a commune in France. There's nothing funny about this.
20:56:30 <arseniiv> :o well, I just realised my client colors users differently, should all HackEso-colored be bots too?
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20:57:06 <arseniiv> yeah it seems right: lambdabot, variable etc., mamma mia
20:57:12 <wob_jonas> skin color is not a useful way to distinguish between people
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20:58:09 <\oren\_> lob_jonas: no your're still orange
20:59:01 <arseniiv> lob_jonas: you turned black as bot in my KvIrc :D
21:01:19 <arseniiv> well, thank you all, it’s a very nice channel! I’ll go for now, and later look at the log, maybe someone names that thing in the meantime, it would be the icing on the cake!
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21:11:09 <oerjan> lob_jonas: you're still black hth
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21:35:32 <fungot> lob_jonas: combinator theory: a function with the results
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22:02:00 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
22:02:28 <lob_jonas> fungot, how many times a month do you go to real fast Nora's nailcare?
22:02:28 <fungot> lob_jonas: " esszet" seems to be using units and signatures, sorry for using that mental image. :s
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23:25:32 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you remember an example where turning off ScopedTypeVariables was tricky?
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23:34:14 <HackEso> aglist 586: b_jonas shachaf
23:36:04 <HackEso> wisdom/epsilon wisdom/luftballon wisdom/melon
23:36:10 <HackEso> A melon is a lemon whose spelling is bad.
23:36:21 <HackEso> A Luftballon is an experimental weapon first developed by the German military in 1983 designed to scramble fighter jets, causing chaos and starting wars between their enemies.
23:59:36 <HackEso> wisdom/4chan wisdom/chaos wisdom/char wisdom/character wisdom/diagram chasing wisdom/english channel wisdom/hexchat wisdom/hipchat wisdom/merchantable wisdom/schaf wisdom/shachaf wisdom/whatchamacallit
00:00:00 <HackEso> Diagram chasing is a technique used to prove integer lemmas. Taneb invented it.
00:00:09 <HackEso> Merchantable adj. Capable of being chanted by mermaids.
00:30:20 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:32:10 <HackEso> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:51:53 <moony1339> Taneb, you here? I found a paradox in your inventions
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02:14:50 <HackEso> P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
02:14:50 <HackEso> D is a letter in the alphabet! It's also the name of a programming language.
02:15:03 <HackEso> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
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09:24:36 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't think i've spent much time trying to avoid ScopedTypeVariables in tricky cases...
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09:51:29 <Taneb> moony1339: I tend to be asleep at 1:51AM
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11:13:27 <int-e> pffft. '"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" - Richard Stallman'
11:14:22 <HackEso> ALGOL stands for A Programming Language
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15:10:18 <danil> ^ul (Hi) (World) ( ) a^~S
15:11:36 <danil> ^ul (Hi) (a^):~!(~!)s
15:26:14 <imode> what language is that?
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16:31:46 <int-e> I guess fungot doesn't like insinuations
16:31:47 <fungot> int-e: fnord was the problem? lack of variable renaming? there are arguments for and against are tricky. what makes you think
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22:08:38 <shachaf> oerjan: There was that one case we talked about a few years ago when we were trying to remove as many extensions as possible from the Typeable exploits.
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22:21:09 <lambdabot> CYUL 242200Z 16007KT 30SM FEW140 BKN170 BKN220 20/04 A3008 RMK AC1AC4CI2 SLP187 DENSITY ALT 600FT
22:21:33 <lambdabot> KOAK 242153Z 29013KT 10SM FEW200 17/09 A3001 RMK AO2 SLP163 T01670094 $
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22:30:36 <oerjan> shachaf: hm possibly, i've forgotten the details.
22:32:05 <oerjan> `learn J started out as a synonym for I, but then branched out into an array of other uses.
22:32:08 <HackEso> Learned 'j': J started out as a synonym for I, but then branched out into an array of other uses.
22:32:45 <oerjan> maybe the array pun is a bit weak.
22:32:58 <oerjan> still - an actually correct wisdom!
22:33:08 <shachaf> J started out as a synonym for I?
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22:35:38 <HackEso> 351) <ais523_> meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary <ais523_> so far, it has found four digits <ais523_> I hope it will find the fifth some time this week \ 733) <Gregor> Very much like "cen" is Latin for "horse", "yak" is Latin for "yak". \ 877) <coppro> GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles <GreyKnight> oh, that's why some
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22:36:01 <oerjan> RealUnix28200: so you're not GNU? (sorry, relevant channel discussion way above)
22:36:22 <HackEso> latin:LATINA EST SVBLIMISSIMA LINGVA MVNDI
22:37:34 <oerjan> . o O ( "cen" is latin for "horse"? )
22:38:03 <shachaf> that was a different RealUnix hth
22:38:05 <oerjan> saved by a bad connection
22:39:10 * oerjan is a bit scatterbrained at the <s>moment</s>century
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22:39:24 <boily> oerjan: centaur and other grenanigans...
22:39:53 <shachaf> one hundred percent equine
22:39:54 <oerjan> i think centaur is greek while century is not.
22:40:07 <oerjan> the century of equality
22:41:03 <oerjan> the romans should know about yaks, they pretty much invented clean shaving after all
22:42:13 * oerjan wonders if danil will get up to actual looping in underload soon
22:43:15 <oerjan> he doesn't seem to have grasped that whitespace is a syntax error in ^ul
22:44:07 <oerjan> @tell danil PSST: you shouldn't have spaces in your ^ul command, is the main reason you get those ...bad insn!
22:44:30 <HackEso> 1/2:rdococ//rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. \ entrymsg//ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/> \ sbus//SBus is the standard bus in many a Sun SPARC-based system, capable of coping with thirty-two (32) bits in parallel, at rates of around 16.67 t
22:44:33 <HackEso> 2/2:o 25 MHz. There is a 96-pin connector, and the cards lay parallel to the motherboard, like toppings on a sandwich. \ mornington crescent//Sorry, you cannot read this wisdom until you've legally played Westminster. \ www//WWW is an abbreviation that takes longer to pronounce properly than what it expands to.
22:44:45 <oerjan> i hope he doesn't interpret that as including the space after ^ul itself.
22:45:01 <shachaf> I wonder who made wisdom/sbus
22:45:08 <oerjan> also did i really make two grammar errors in one line
22:45:10 <HackEso> 6917:2016-02-20 <fizzïe> ` mv wisdom/sbu wisdom/sbus # plurals are hard
22:45:16 <HackEso> 6917:2016-02-20 <fizzïe> ` mv wisdom/sbu wisdom/sbus # plurals are hard \ 6916:2016-02-20 <fizzïe> learn SBus is the standard bus in many a Sun SPARC-based system, capable of coping with thirty-two (32) bits in parallel, at rates of around 16.67 to 25 MHz. There is a 96-pin connector, and the cards lay parallel to the motherboard, like toppings on a sandwich.
22:46:28 <shachaf> oerjan: imo what if `culprits generated a tmp/spout where the first line is the culprits and the rest of the file is the doag
22:47:00 <shachaf> This would be a convenient sort of UI and maybe a justification for preformatting spout
22:48:37 <oerjan> it wouldn't even really save irc space
22:49:38 <oerjan> and if there were more culprits that fit in a line, you couldn't see them with `n
22:49:54 <shachaf> You would distort all the culprits and then distort all the doags.
22:50:22 <oerjan> but then this would break when combined with the *usual* spout commands
22:50:25 <shachaf> It wouldn't save IRC space but it would save work since you could just `n
22:50:42 <shachaf> I guess you could just write a script that printed the output of culprits followed by the output of doag.
22:51:11 <shachaf> Sure, but that's true for `1 2 too, and for any program that generates spout directly
22:51:12 <HackEso> “Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
22:51:18 <oerjan> all the cul doags want such a script
22:51:40 <boily> `slwd boily//s/boring/kafkaesque/
22:51:42 <HackEso> boily//“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world kafkaesque.
22:51:53 <boily> (working with kafka now.)
22:52:18 <oerjan> boily: i guess it's a new process?
22:55:02 <oerjan> i was about to complain how bad that would be to google, but the top hit is *not* about the author
22:56:13 <boily> it's quite enjoyable!
22:56:30 <oerjan> has it metamorphized your programming?
22:56:58 <shachaf> o() and O() are such a terrible choice of names for similar but different things
22:57:21 <oerjan> shachaf: did you know that technically those are supposed to be *greek* letters
22:57:40 <oerjan> all around, very good judgement
22:57:49 <shachaf> Greek letters that look similar to Latin letters ought to be illegal.
22:57:56 <shachaf> This includes nu and omega.
22:58:08 <oerjan> shachaf: technically the latins stole from the greeks.
22:58:34 <oerjan> omega? now you're exaggerating.
22:58:41 <shachaf> Right, and now we're the beneficiaries of that theft.
22:59:12 <oerjan> either that or you're confusing with omicron.
22:59:17 <boily> oerjan: eh... not yet. containers though are quite the handful.
23:02:13 <oerjan> shachaf: i recall that greek car plates use *only* letters that look similar to latin letters.
23:02:31 <shachaf> As long as there's no potential for ambiguity it's OK.
23:02:39 <oerjan> how did i press that button
23:03:02 <shachaf> maybe you can tanebvent an esolang that uses this greek/latin ambiguity to good effect hth
23:03:12 * oerjan has tried making a habit of not leaving his clipboard with things containing newlines, but sometimes forgets
23:04:10 <HackEso> Boron (B) is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it.
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23:58:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * King Ethan * New user account
00:00:31 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54914&oldid=54882 * King Ethan * (+207)
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00:41:48 <wob_jonas> "<oerjan> shachaf: did you know that technically those are supposed to be *greek* letters" => I don't buy that. I think they're supposed to be latin letters, and also originate in a latin word "ordo", but let me check what Knuth says.
00:42:58 <wob_jonas> "<shachaf> This includes nu and omega." => those aren't even similar to latin letters. the only lowercase greek letters that are similar to latin letters are omicron, which looks exactly the same as a latin o, and upsilon, which looks similar to an italic latin v
00:43:18 <shachaf> nu looks like v and omega looks like w
00:44:31 <wob_jonas> only in bad handwriting, in which case you'll have bigger problems than those letters
00:46:02 <APic> Good old Lettes.
00:46:30 <esowiki> [[JR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54915 * King Ethan * (+48) Created page with "JR is a [[Deadfish]] variant with more commands."
00:46:53 <esowiki> [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54916&oldid=54915 * King Ethan * (+29)
00:48:50 <HackEso> ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
00:49:05 <wob_jonas> Or it might be named from the german word Ordnung
00:49:14 <wob_jonas> which I think is etymologically related
00:50:11 <wob_jonas> but I guess the latin is more likely, because it's an old sign: Knuth says it was introduced by Paul Bachmann in 1894
00:50:35 <wob_jonas> heck, dunno, german could be possible in 1894 already
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00:51:57 <esowiki> [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54917&oldid=54916 * King Ethan * (+1163)
00:52:55 <wob_jonas> Knuth-CM doesn't seem to specifically mention whether it's a latin or greek letter; I'll also have to check TAOCP
00:53:20 <wob_jonas> oerjan: why do you think it's supposed to be a greek letter?
00:53:48 <boily> APic: did you partake of a hot-dog latelÿ?
00:53:58 <APic> Certainly not.
00:54:11 * APic can not even contact his Foodstuffsprovider right now 24/7
00:54:34 <APic> Because the Burger-King at the giasinger Bahnhof is currently renovating.
00:54:49 * APic needs to eat some Icecream now
00:58:57 <wob_jonas> TAOCP 1.2.11.1 specifically says it's called "big-oh", which seems to imply that it's not the greek letter, but the latin (or cyrillic or coptic one)
00:59:13 <wob_jonas> it would be called "big-omikron" if it was greek
01:02:22 <esowiki> [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54918&oldid=54917 * King Ethan * (+26) /* External resources */
01:04:17 <oerjan> wob_jonas: for the same reason it's called the berenstein bears hth
01:06:34 <oerjan> alternatively, one of my twins stole my keyboard hth
01:06:41 <wob_jonas> I guess if it says "big-oh", we could still decide that it's a cyrillic, coptic, or armenian letter
01:07:02 <oerjan> wikipedia seems to agree with you, anyway.
01:11:08 <esowiki> [[JR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54919&oldid=54918 * King Ethan * (+47) /* External resources */
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06:17:51 <shachaf> fizzie: I saw https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbj67MPXcAAJD5g.png and was going to ask you whether you got a sword
06:18:02 <shachaf> But apparently I already asked before?
06:18:19 <shachaf> I should download the new logs so I have something more organized than my current hodgepodge.
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10:53:11 <int-e> `` [ "x3" > "x4" ] && echo 1
10:53:19 <int-e> `` [ "x3" < "x4" ] && echo 1
10:53:43 <int-e> I'm confused, what am I doing wrong?
10:54:13 <int-e> something with [ ] vs [[ ]]
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12:14:27 <izabera> for [ they're just redirections
12:14:44 <izabera> so [ x3 > x4 ] is the same as [ x3 ] >x4
12:14:56 <izabera> which returns true because x3 is not an empty string
12:15:24 <izabera> izabera | so [ can special case < > meant to say so [[ can special case < >
12:15:43 <izabera> `` [[ x3 < x4 ]] && echo 1
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13:12:53 <wob_jonas> ``` (( 3 > 4 )) && echo three is more than four; (( 3 < 4 )) && echo four is more than three
13:13:35 <wob_jonas> int-e: you want (( which is a magical syntax analog for let , in the same sense as [[ is a magical syntax analog for test
13:14:04 <wob_jonas> let does arithmetic, test checks file attributes, plus string comparisons for some reason
13:14:29 <izabera> [[ foobar =~ f.*r ]] regex
13:15:24 <wob_jonas> it's all for historical reasons, let and $(()) and (( )) and $[] sprang up to partly replace the really stupid expr command
13:15:33 <izabera> [[ -v var ]] testing if a variable is defined
13:15:42 <wob_jonas> other parts are replaced by test and by shell substitution
13:16:00 <wob_jonas> including the newfangled ${v/p/r} substitution
13:16:01 <int-e> wob_jonas: I want a string comparison though
13:16:07 <int-e> not a numerical one
13:16:20 <izabera> did you know that $(( )) and $[ ] are parsed differently?
13:16:58 <izabera> `` printf %d $[1&123456789>>{31..0}]
13:16:59 <HackEso> 00000111010110111100110100010101
13:17:13 <int-e> `` [ "x3" \< "x4" ] && echo 1
13:17:19 <int-e> `` [ "x3" \> "x4" ] && echo 1
13:18:32 <HackEso> File: x4 \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 1204956 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 1000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2018-04-25 10:53:12.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2018-04-25 10:53:12.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2018-04-25 10:53:12.000000000 +0000 \ Birth: -
13:27:48 <wob_jonas> bash has come a long way since I started using linux. back then it didn't have ${v/p/r}, it didn't have (( )) or [[ ]] , it didn't have |& , it didn't have redirection with the file descriptor chosen automatically and put into a shell variable
13:27:56 <wob_jonas> it didn't have any of these useful modern features
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13:47:40 <FireFly> I thought ${//} and (( )) and [[ ]] were all quite old
13:50:00 <izabera> i believe they're at least bash 2.x
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16:02:59 <Taneb> Apparently no-one is here
16:03:11 <int-e> my guess is that they saw the topic
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16:05:11 <Taneb> Ooh, that's conceivable
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17:42:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: Welcome to the international millipede for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf.
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18:03:35 <arseniiv> I’ve written out some notes on my dialect of that unnamed lazy functional language for a person possibly non-acquainted with FP, so these may be of some interest to someone somewhere: https://gist.github.com/arseniiv/811949865aabe30e114ab01088cfb8d7
18:06:00 <arseniiv> also maybe you could suggest a more informative example on evaluation. Mine could look uneasy
18:06:26 <arseniiv> also haven’t anyone remember yet how it could be called? ::)
18:07:06 <arseniiv> maybe I should create a page on the wiki…
18:07:43 <arseniiv> (but you see my English is strange-looking. It’s because I don’t know it)
18:30:45 <HackEso> lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. or the neighbours.
18:31:02 <fungot> arseniiv: this makes it so inefficient and frustrating for all but the first.... think there's an official scheme48 debian package.)) the reader gymnastics
18:31:03 <HackEso> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
18:33:13 <HackEso> Logic is just another way the true Scotsman is keeping you down.
18:35:29 <HackEso> bicategory//Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism.
18:37:59 <HackEso> category-helpdesk//category-helpdesk is a helpdesk with identity and composition. This channel isn't it.
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20:34:51 <wob_jonas> "<izabera> i believe they're at least bash 2.x" => yes. I used bash before 2.0. bash was one of the first unix software I got familiar with.
20:35:55 <wob_jonas> we did have ${v##p} and ${v%%p} and ${v#p} and ${v%p} though, so I could use that for string manip
20:37:11 <wob_jonas> "<arseniiv> I’ve written out some notes on my dialect of that unnamed lazy functional language" => have you named it Nora's Nailcare 2: Reverse Polish Full Movie HD yet? Or is that name inappropriate for a language that isn't stack-based?
20:46:08 <arseniiv> I have seen some of Nora’s Nailcare, seems there’s a very different story…
20:48:37 <Taneb> wob_jonas, oh goodness is there a spinoff
20:48:46 <arseniiv> I suggest naming it FLFLFL (feverishly loving, forever lazy functional language)
20:48:59 <shachaf> `? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
20:49:00 <HackEso> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there.
20:49:43 <shachaf> That movie is rated 3.7/10 on imdb.com.
20:49:49 <shachaf> I kind of want to watch it.
20:51:11 <Taneb> shachaf, Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster?
20:51:24 <Taneb> It wasn't very enjoyable to me
20:51:57 <shachaf> Taneb: Did you download it?
20:52:01 <wob_jonas> We need a different name then. But a pun about a curry restaurant would be cheap. Maybe something about a closure of Nora's spa?
20:52:15 <Taneb> I think I was streaming it
20:52:21 <Taneb> Anyway, I'm off to bed now
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20:52:41 <shachaf> Taneb: You gotta download it real fast.
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21:06:11 <arseniiv> it’d be neat if there was something about combinators
21:06:34 <arseniiv> *combinator, as in “any combinator”
21:09:07 <arseniiv> oh, sometime ago I’ve misheard “please come by” in a song as “please combine”, isn’t it a pretty name?
21:10:12 <HackEso> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
21:10:21 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=458
21:12:09 <shachaf> Cale: so do you know whether there's a universal property that characterizes derivatives twh
21:13:47 <shachaf> Is Super Mega back on a regular schedule?
21:14:42 <shachaf> Also do you want to be on ysaclist?
21:27:09 <int-e> http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/ggmain/strips/ggmain20180425e.jpg has a cute spider. A spider with cutlery. I wonder whether it has/will actually feature/d in the comics...
21:28:51 <Cale> I don't know of a universal property that characterises derivatives...
21:29:17 <Cale> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_algebra
21:29:22 <Cale> you might start there though
21:30:07 <arseniiv> (cont.: also we could rename my proposed `seq` (to make IO usable) to `please`: please (output 0x34) (output 0x32) // 0x34 = succ (succ 0x32), 0x32 = …)
21:30:30 <shachaf> Cale: We had a proposal here the other day.
21:30:34 <Cale> That sort of gives you some kind of arrow-theoretical law to be satisfied, which you could probably generalise
21:31:05 <shachaf> For a class of functions G : X -> Y
21:31:13 <shachaf> Given a function f : X -> Y and a point x : X
21:31:45 <shachaf> The best G-approximation of f at x is a function g0 : G such that for all g : G, there's a neighborhood A of x, such that for all x' in A, d(g0(x'), f(x')) <= d(g(x'), f(x'))
21:32:17 <shachaf> And then you can let G be constant functions to get continuity and affine functions to get derivatives.
21:32:41 <shachaf> I think it doesn't work in any metric space but maybe for R -> R
21:33:28 <Cale> Not sure that works...
21:34:43 <shachaf> Well, there's presumably some sense in which derivatives are "the best linear approximation around a point". How would you characterize one linear approximation being better than another?
21:34:50 <Cale> What about something like f(x) = x when x is rational and f(x) = -x otherwise. This is continuous at 0, but won't quite satisfy that condition.
21:35:35 <shachaf> So the definition you get for f continuous at x is...
21:36:18 <shachaf> for all y : Y, there's a neighborhood A of x, such that for all x' in A, d(f(x'), f(x)) <= d(f(x'), y)
21:36:44 <Cale> Oh, sorry, I misread, maybe that does work
21:37:43 <Cale> You get to pick the neighbourhood based on the other function which is challenging the approximation-hood of g0.
21:38:54 <shachaf> So I think this works for your function.
21:39:29 <shachaf> It's a pretty unusual definition of continuity, though.
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21:40:46 <shachaf> You can pick A so that |f(x')| will be very small, smaller than |f(x') - y|
21:43:00 <Cale> It just reduces to the usual definition
21:44:03 <shachaf> I'd normally expect something like "for each neighborhood of f(x)"
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01:28:28 <\oren\_> game 7, 4-3 leafs, 2nd period ends
01:29:31 <shachaf> i don't keep up with baseball hth
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07:43:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Viercc * New user account
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07:50:03 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54920&oldid=54914 * Viercc * (+176)
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08:27:34 <lambdabot> LOWI 260820Z 06005KT 030V110 9999 FEW012 SCT035 BKN060 13/10 Q1017 NOSIG
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10:59:55 <Taneb> Is there any (non-esoteric?) language with a type representing an index into a specific array
11:05:18 <shachaf> I guess that's not exactly true.
11:05:41 <izabera> oh, into a specific array?
11:05:53 <Taneb> I'd ideally like this to be strongly typed and also allow the array to mutate
11:05:55 <izabera> so if you can use foo[i] you can't use bar[i]?
11:06:06 <izabera> whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
11:06:08 <shachaf> An array of length n has n+1 indices.
11:06:29 <Taneb> izabera: mostly because I ran into a bug in my code due to me mixing up arrays
11:06:39 <shachaf> Taneb: There are C++ iterators which are also not really this.
11:06:50 <izabera> maybe you should learn how computers work
11:06:57 <Taneb> izabera: that requires effort
11:06:58 <izabera> functional programming is bad for you
11:07:10 <Taneb> I'm gonna learn how maths works instead
11:07:29 <shachaf> which math are you starting with
11:07:46 <Taneb> shachaf: haven't decided yet
11:07:58 <Taneb> Maybe group theory? Group theory is fun
11:08:06 <shachaf> Anyway I'm pretty sure I've seen this somewhere.
11:08:10 <Taneb> Although not really foundational
11:11:30 <shachaf> Speaking of array index types, do you like wavelet trees?
11:11:56 <shachaf> Did you know rank maps from the type of indices of an array to the type of indices of a subarray?
11:12:00 <Taneb> I remember looking at them, but I don't know what they are!
11:12:27 <shachaf> I made a picture at http://slbkbs.org/ranksel.svg
11:13:49 <shachaf> Taneb: I think Ada might have something similar to what you're asking for but I can't really tell.
11:14:16 <shachaf> subtype Index_Type is Integer range Array'Range
11:14:38 <shachaf> You'd have to ask Sgeo_. I bet it's not really what you're asking for though.
11:15:18 <Taneb> The next question is "Would such types be remotely usable in practice"
11:17:51 <shachaf> It depends on why you want indexing.
11:18:39 <Taneb> In the instance that inspired this, I have an index into an array of indices into another array
11:20:53 <Taneb> And I messed up and used my index as an index straight into the second array
11:20:56 <shachaf> I think in most languages that support something like this it would be more trouble than it's worth.
11:21:28 <shachaf> But maybe you could approximate it with less work.
11:22:28 <shachaf> For example you could have two types of arrays and indices and not do the dependenty thing where your index only works for a particular array but restrict it to a type instead.
11:23:26 <shachaf> An array is just a kind of function, after all.
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11:30:49 <lambdabot> class (Num a, Ord a) => Real a where
11:31:04 <shachaf> Taneb: can you learn so many maths that that class makes any sense hth
11:31:52 <Taneb> shachaf: well, the real numbers and the rational numbers are basically the same, except there's more real numbers
11:32:10 <Taneb> Every real number is pretty close to a rational number
11:32:25 <Taneb> I'm going to stop here because I really don't feel like justifying that typeclass's name
11:32:46 <shachaf> Do you think of continuity "backwards" or "forwards"?
11:33:19 <Taneb> I try not to think of continuity, personally
11:33:54 <Taneb> But if I did I'd probably think of it in some weird way that's not quite either of those options
11:34:16 <shachaf> Oh, I want to hear your weird way.
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11:36:04 <Taneb> I don't find naturality natural
11:36:46 <Taneb> Do you mean continuity as in continuous functions, and naturality as in natural transformations?
11:37:24 <Taneb> The former, I think of in terms of neighbourhoods
11:37:47 <Taneb> The latter, I can never get into my head for some reason
11:38:01 <shachaf> A natural transformation e : F -> G : C -> D is a functor e : 2xC -> D which is F at 0 and G at 1
11:38:55 <shachaf> What could be more natural?
11:39:28 <Taneb> What does this have to do with natural numbers?
11:39:37 <Taneb> And natural logarithms
11:39:40 <shachaf> 2 is a natural number, and so are 0 and 1.
11:41:08 <shachaf> You can read https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3833/f692e93a795b51bd3d7acfd9477f9ee6d536.pdf which I think is the thing that introduced natural transformations?
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12:58:07 <Taneb> shachaf: thanks for the link, I've bookmarked
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17:07:53 <arseniiv> about a type of indexes to a particular array: maybe this is possible in Haskell. There’s a type of references to a particular _state thread_, STRef s a, where a is the type of referenced values and s is a magic which is works mostly because of the type of `runST`. Maybe one could define something like this for arrays. I think, you’d need to wrap arrays into some new type which would work with its indices like ST s and STRef s work
17:08:45 <arseniiv> could it be that Oleg or, say, Edward Kmett have written about something like this? IDK
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17:18:39 <arseniiv> however, I couldn’t yet imagine what type hackery is needed to represent a type of an array containing such indexes to other arrays. Existential somewhere, maybe. It seems dependent-like features of Haskell types are limited in this case (or not, I’m too far from an expert here)
17:27:06 <arseniiv> also, could these indices be pairs of an array (pointer to info about array etc.) and an index? Then it’s pretty hard to mismatch something, and the space is 8 bytes more per element, which is quite light in some cases(?)
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17:29:08 <arseniiv> 8 bytes at most* (I presume 128-bit addresses aren’t yet a thing)
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17:32:23 <arseniiv> int-e: are they used as pointers in some language? :o
17:32:35 <int-e> *whistles some more*
17:34:11 <int-e> it may be worth noting that the 's' in 'ST s' is a phantom type... there's no corresponding value at runtime at all.
17:34:23 <imode> https://twitter.com/Hillelogram/status/987432178840756225 money + mouth.
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17:41:46 <imode> the article that's the result of this thread was on HN's front page recently.
17:42:59 <\oren\_> I think imperative code can be easy to analyze as long as you have limits to what a given subroutine is allowed to mutate
17:43:19 <imode> hence why all of his examples are well-contained.
17:44:02 <imode> https://hillelwayne.com/post/theorem-prover-showdown/ the article in question.
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17:54:12 <imode> his analysis of the crowds involved was pretty spot on in my travels.
17:55:29 <int-e> (to my mind the main thrust behind "reasoning about (pure!) function programs is easy" is that the absence of mutation ensures separation between different parts of the program... so you can reason about a program in a modular way "for free", rather than bringing out guns like separation logic.
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17:56:22 <imode> a good benchmark of your views would be to produce a valid proof of his examples in your theorem prover of choice.
17:56:30 <imode> else you become a "bulldog", as he puts it. :P
17:56:41 <int-e> (I'm putting "for free" in quotes because there is often a performance price that you pay for purity)
17:56:53 <int-e> imode: Isabelle has already been done :P
17:57:16 <imode> so has leftpad in several languages. we could always use a few more! :P
17:57:48 <int-e> yeah but they wouldn't fall under "my theorem prover of choice".
17:58:36 <imode> nothing stops you from putting your beliefs to work is all I'm saying.
18:03:15 <wob_jonas> Yes, I'd like some magic array index thing too. Not one where the index is tied to a single array, but nor one where you just define different types of indexes for different arrays, but ones where the index type can be conceptually different each time in a loop and lets you prove that the index is in bounds for that array. And yes, I think the ST-l
18:03:15 <wob_jonas> ike foreach type trick might be able to do that.
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18:07:02 <int-e> imode: http://downthetypehole.de/paste/Bh5NU2Xi ... this is one of these stupid cases where the specification is harder to understand than the implementation :P
18:09:20 <int-e> To demonstrate the point, I forgot this bit: ∧ length (left_pad c n xs) = n
18:14:07 <\oren\_> hmm... how about an assembler with invariant checking etc
18:15:14 <\oren\_> like, you have guarantees about how the instructions behave and it tries to prove things from that apward
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18:16:16 <\oren\_> that should pretty much prevent any runtime overhead?
18:18:02 <\oren\_> (on the other hand, the instructions would have to be rather different from a normal CPU)
18:18:21 <imode> you could have guarantees for spans of instructions built into the hardware.
18:18:40 <imode> basically hardware assertions.
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18:23:28 <\oren\_> imode: hmmmm... but if you have hardware assertions you can USE those in your instruction pipelining
18:23:43 <\oren\_> so it might not even have an overhead
18:31:42 <rdococ> Syntactic iodine: Something that you don't know is there, and something that you don't know you need, like iodine is in iodised table salt.
18:32:18 <rdococ> (Granted, what's in iodised table salt is actually various iodide salts as opposed to elemental iodine, but you get the gist.)
18:34:24 <oerjan> rdococ: sounds tricky to need it if you don't know it's there...
18:35:08 <oerjan> maybe a language using ZWSPes to separate tokens
18:35:31 <oerjan> but only when they're not both alphanumeric
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19:44:31 <HackEso> e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player.
19:45:12 <Taneb> That reminds me of why someone way back when thought I was good at palindromes
19:47:58 <oerjan> arseniiv: your array idea would probably work as a use of kmett's reflection library
19:48:52 <Taneb> oerjan, I wrote, in here, "E, esoteric, ire to see"
19:49:08 <Taneb> It was oklopol who commented that
19:49:15 <Taneb> Whatever happened to them?
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19:49:56 <oerjan> `quote oklopol.*never come
19:49:57 <HackEso> 656) <oklopol> i think i'll just take the usual route and go do post doc research somewhere far away and never come back and become a drug lord and kill myself
19:50:14 <oerjan> (he did go to Brazil.)
19:50:21 <wob_jonas> rdococ: re syntactic iodine => rust has a lot of those, and sometimes it horrifies me how complex some of the syntax and name lookup rules are
19:50:26 <oerjan> time to stalk him a moment ->
19:50:33 <Taneb> Hmm, I know an academic from Brazil!
19:51:02 <wob_jonas> the part that bothers me the most is how constructors and fresh variable names are (not) distinguished in patterns
19:51:23 <wob_jonas> and I find the name lookup rules rather complicated, but at least those are less worrisome
19:51:36 <HackEso> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
19:52:07 <shachaf> Taneb: Remember when you used to write limericks?
19:53:23 <shachaf> <Taneb> There was a chap from Scandinavia/Who didn't have any poetic behaviour/So online he complained/And helpfulness reigned/Taneb became his limerick saviour
19:53:36 <shachaf> What happened to olsner, anyway?
19:53:43 <wob_jonas> the way the type inference interacts with the method lookup is also somewhat worrisome by the way
19:53:46 <shachaf> I can't tell people whose nick starts with o apart.
19:54:00 <oerjan> if his homepage is to be believed, he's back at turku univ.
19:54:01 <wob_jonas> in the way you can suddenly have your program break when new apparently unrelated functions are added
19:54:08 <Taneb> shachaf, I never actually figured out if oklopol and oklofol were different people
19:54:39 <HackEso> A palindrome is a word that remains the same if you take it to the mirror dimension, and then take each individual letter back to the normal dimension separately.
19:54:45 <olsner> I always assumed both oklokin are one and the same
19:55:20 <wob_jonas> ``` allwisdoms | grep -Ei palindrome | sport
19:55:21 <HackEso> bash: allwisdoms: command not found \ 1/0:
19:55:27 <wob_jonas> shachaf: there was a poll about that somewhere
19:55:34 <wob_jonas> ``` allquotes | grep -Ei palindrome | sport
19:55:43 <wob_jonas> ``` allquotes | grep -Ei palindrom | sport
19:57:16 * oerjan was speaking about oklopol btw, didn't see people starting to talk about olsner
19:57:26 * oerjan suspect olsner isn't at turku
19:57:49 <wob_jonas> oerjan: why? does turku not have internet?
19:57:50 <olsner> oerjan: I also strongly suspect I am not at turku
19:58:08 <Taneb> I would like to visit Turku some day
19:58:14 <Taneb> It seems to be an interesting place
19:58:42 <shachaf> I took a boat to Stockholm.
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19:59:07 <wob_jonas> I've never been to any part of Finland
19:59:35 <oerjan> Taneb: i would have said everyone oklo* is the same, except i saw a different one on PPCG or somewhere
20:00:28 <shachaf> Also what's the deal with ? being way harder to match efficiently for glob patterns than * ?
20:00:51 <shachaf> In fact it's not even known how efficiently you can do it?
20:01:40 <HackEso> olist 1118: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:01:48 <wob_jonas> do you mean like with the matched document preprocessed?
20:02:25 <shachaf> I mean with neither preprocessed.
20:02:47 <oerjan> `1 grwp -Ei palindrome
20:02:49 <HackEso> 1/1:palindrome:A palindrome is a word that remains the same if you take it to the mirror dimension, and then take each individual letter back to the normal dimension separately.
20:03:03 <HackEso> 1/1:palindrome:A palindrome is a word that remains the same if you take it to the mirror dimension, and then take each individual letter back to the normal dimension separately.
20:03:42 <HackEso> palindromedary camel? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:04:11 <shachaf> i,i A palindromedary camel is one whose humps look the same from either side.
20:05:30 <Taneb> oerjan, I'm unconvinced
20:06:12 <lambdabot> ["\"k\"","Pikami","abc","dictator-for-life","maximum-edit-distance","pizza","should-lambdabot-be-more-polite","test"]
20:06:55 <lambdabot> Poll results for pizza (Closed): pepperoni=1
20:07:33 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
20:07:35 <Taneb> I do like little peppers on pizza
20:08:40 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s/ruin/the limerick, &/
20:08:42 <HackEso> tanebvention//Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, the limerick, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
20:10:36 <shachaf> `learn A limerick is a verse with two left metrical feet and three right metrical feet.
20:10:39 <HackEso> Learned 'limerick': A limerick is a verse with two left metrical feet and three right metrical feet.
20:11:54 <oerjan> this olist seemed a bit short
20:12:16 <shachaf> oerjan: That's only because olists come but once a year.
20:12:25 <shachaf> If it updated three times a week you'd think it's fine.
20:18:03 <oerjan> `learn Fueue will be explained more properly once we've made another pass through all the other tanebventions.
20:18:06 <HackEso> Learned 'fueue': Fueue will be explained more properly once we've made another pass through all the other tanebventions.
20:19:59 <HackEso> If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
20:20:03 <HackEso> Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia.
20:20:09 <HackEso> Submarine jousting is unexplainable.
20:20:17 <HackEso> The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet.
20:20:29 <HackEso> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:28:17 <int-e> imode: http://downthetypehole.de/paste/GpP7OKaR is the fulcrum thing. The unique thing is awkward to specify and less interesting.
20:29:02 <shachaf> I think I confuse the words "fulcrum" and "frustum".
20:29:49 <int-e> Hah, I may be doing the same thing.
20:30:11 <shachaf> Well, yours seems like neither of those?
20:31:30 <int-e> shachaf: the terminology isn't mine, but I suppose idea is to balance the left and right parts of a list as well as possible
20:31:52 <shachaf> That sounds like a fulcrm, I suppose.
20:32:15 <int-e> imode mentioned https://twitter.com/Hillelogram/status/987432178840756225 and https://hillelwayne.com/post/theorem-prover-showdown/ earlier.
20:40:01 <int-e> anyway, that was enough fun for now...
20:41:17 <int-e> actually... "unique" has a lousy specification.
20:41:33 <arseniiv> oerjan: is it that library which could be used to supply a config through constraints and which uses that Proxy stuff?
20:42:05 <int-e> What are "the unique elements" of [1,2,3,2,1]? I read it as [3], because 1 and 2 aren't unique in that list...
20:42:26 <int-e> but it intends the result to be [1,2,3] in any order
20:42:45 <oerjan> arseniiv: you could make the array the config value
20:43:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: [1,2,3] are the unique elements, and [3] are the unique -u elements
20:43:37 <wob_jonas> also, [1,2] are the unique -d elements, and [1,2,2,1] are the unique -D elements
20:44:07 <int-e> (which really can't be a complaint on here, so carry on)
20:44:15 <shachaf> How do you catch a unique element?
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20:48:12 <oerjan> `learn TMI is short for toenail mushroom infestation
20:48:14 <HackEso> Learned 'tmi': TMI is short for toenail mushroom infestation
20:49:03 <oerjan> i take it my wisdom got tmi spot on
20:49:11 <wob_jonas> is that the one on the Harry toenail of ... what was it
20:49:14 <HackEso> Titles J. K. Rowling had specifically denied on her webpage would be the titles of the sixth or seventh Harry Potter book are: Harry Potter and the{ Green Flame Torch, Mountain of Fantasy, Fortress of Shadows, Forest of Shadows, Graveyard of Memories, Pyramids of Furmat, Pillar of Storgé, Toenail of Icklibõgg}.
20:50:42 <oerjan> that was strangely not on my mind hth
20:51:34 <oerjan> maybe it should be a different organ
20:53:37 <HackEso> hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
20:54:22 <HackEso> apt \ dingas \ hth \ portmanteau \ potatoes \ rincewind \ the \ title \ tmi \ toe \ twnh \ welp \ wth
20:54:22 <HackEso> The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang.
20:54:29 <HackEso> «Portmanteau» is the French spelling of “port man toe”.
20:54:38 <HackEso> WTH is wavy toe hair. hth.
20:54:45 <HackEso> The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang.
20:54:51 <HackEso> twnh is dubious hambiguitous help that will or will not be help. It is provided by a toe with no hair.
20:54:58 <HackEso> 9094:2016-09-26 <oerjän> learn The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang. \ 6001:2015-09-16 <oerjän> rm wisdom/toe \ 5996:2015-09-15 <hppavilion[1̈]> learn the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 5995:2015-09-15 <hppavilion[1̈]> learn The Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 5993:2015-09-15 <hppavilion[1̈]> learn the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 5991:2015-09-15 <hppavilion[1̈]> learn the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclave \ 5990:2015-09-1
20:55:04 <HackEso> 8919:2016-08-15 <oerjän> learn WTH is wavy toe hair. hth.
20:55:12 <HackEso> 6161:2015-10-30 <boil̈y> le/rn portmanteau/\xc2\xabPortmanteau\xc2\xbb is the French spelling of \xe2\x80\x9cport man toe\xe2\x80\x9d.
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20:55:18 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty kind "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud hero is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
20:55:33 <shachaf> `swrjan s/kind/toe-obsessed/
20:55:35 <HackEso> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal swatty toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty loud hero is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
20:56:17 <wob_jonas> we need a command in bin that seds the source code of that very command
20:57:58 <oerjan> `mkx bin/qued//sled bin/qued//"$1"
20:58:24 <int-e> meh it's hard to stop. http://downthetypehole.de/paste/qa3R2yV3 has a few comments.
20:59:05 <HackEso> bin/qued//sled bin/qued//"$1"
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21:00:25 <oerjan> `qued s,ed bin,wd ../bin,
21:00:27 <HackEso> bin/qued//slwd ../bin/qued//"$1"
21:00:48 <HackEso> ../bin/qued//slwd ../bin/qued//"$1"
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21:43:36 <HackEso> ../bin/qued//slwd ../bin/qued//"$1"
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21:52:54 <wob_jonas> arseniiv: Nora's Hair Styling on Demand, Call Us Any Time Full Movie HD
22:01:22 <wob_jonas> Nora's Hair Styling on Demand, Call Any Time Full Movie HD
22:01:36 <wob_jonas> unless you already found a better name that is
22:01:57 <wob_jonas> although someone who's actually good at English puns will probably be able to give a better suggestion
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22:10:19 <oerjan> . o O ( i feel like i'm obliged to suggest pedicure at this point )
22:11:23 <wob_jonas> oerjan: that was my original suggestion yesterday: "have you named it Nora's Nailcare 2: Reverse Polish Full Movie HD yet? Or is that name inappropriate for a language that isn't stack-based?"
22:11:34 <wob_jonas> you can still reuse that name for a different language
22:12:26 <shachaf> I'm not so sure that there should be more Nora languages.
22:13:01 <shachaf> The world of spam is diverse.
22:14:01 <wob_jonas> a spam-based language has been very close to the top of the page in https://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas for a long time
22:16:52 <Sgeo_> Spam based language?
22:17:23 <Sgeo_> Thought you meant spam that managed to accidentally persist in the esolang wiki
22:17:38 <shachaf> Does Ada support types of indices into a specific array?
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22:19:17 <Sgeo_> As in the type of the index contains the array? For both, no idea. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Agda could, just based on it being dependently typed.
22:20:50 <shachaf> You can do "subtype Index_Type is INteger range Array'Range", right?
22:23:11 <Sgeo_> I don't know Ada (or Agda except that it's dependently typed).
22:23:39 <Sgeo_> I could probably recognize that what you typed looks more like Ada than any other language I know
22:25:14 <wob_jonas> shachaf: in SQL, when a column has a FOREIGN KEY constraint, would that count as the column having a type that indexes into another array?
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22:41:15 <shachaf> Taneb brought this up, not me.
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23:46:10 <arseniiv> wob_jonas> Nora's Hair Styling on Demand, Call Any Time Full Movie HD> oh nooooooooooo why should it be Nora all the time I don’t get it :P
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00:32:46 <doesthiswork> So I came up with a "softmedian" function to match the "softmax" and "softmin" functions
00:38:09 <doesthiswork> for all elements x in the collection sum (e^(x-a) -1)/(e^(x-a)+1) with "a" such that the sum equal zero
00:39:12 <shachaf> Oh, I was mixing up softmax and another thing.
00:39:35 <doesthiswork> I need to solve for a to make this actually useful
00:40:35 <doesthiswork> but for collections of only two elements it simplifies down to the mean of the two elements
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01:55:40 <zzo38> What is the maximum length of the real name field in IRC?
02:00:15 <imode> the RFC doesn't seem to have anything about specific maximums.
02:00:19 <imode> so I think it's up to the server.
02:01:27 <alercah> and the maximum length of 510 for a single message
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04:04:57 <HackEso> 1/2:ppntat//Pen Pineapple Nutmeg Tamarind Apple Tangerine \ mockingbird//mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. \ minsky//to Minsky on : /mɪnskiː/ To act as a Minsky machine on; of a program or programming language, to encode its entire state into the object as a single integer. \ cricket//Cricket is one team is in and one team is out, and the team who is out tries to get the team who is in to be out, and then the tea
04:05:04 <HackEso> 2/2:m who was previously out can be in. Whoever earns more points wins, unless you run out of time, in which case nobody wins. \ dosh//The doshes are what the gostak distims.
05:04:14 <esowiki> [[User:Nobody]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54921&oldid=54847 * Nobody * (-43)
05:06:57 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck--]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54922&oldid=37901 * Nobody * (+0) typo fixed
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07:22:02 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DevHammed * New user account
07:25:58 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54923&oldid=54920 * DevHammed * (+81) /* Introductions */
07:32:13 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54924&oldid=54923 * DevHammed * (+7) /* Introductions */
07:48:57 <shachaf> Taneb: So if I write a' = a, can indices of a be used for indexing a'?
07:49:27 <shachaf> Can I store indices of a somewhere where a isn't in scope, and use them later?
07:52:52 <shachaf> Is there such a thing as a type of values that can only be used as arguments for a specific function?
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08:47:28 <Taneb> shachaf: fdepends on the semantics of the language. They're different types, in something like C that could work but in Haskell you might need fromIntegral
08:48:02 <Taneb> I don't see why you wouldn't be able to store indices somewhere where the array isn't available
08:48:49 <Taneb> I don't think a type of values that can only be used as arguments for a specific function makes sense to me, as it prevents composition
08:49:09 <Taneb> I'm answering your questions, starting from the one at 8:48 BST, in order
08:49:47 <shachaf> Well, if a' is equal to a, I imagine an index of a should be usable for a'?
08:49:58 <shachaf> Depending on whether you have a notion of object identity and what equality means.
08:50:25 <Taneb> Oh! I misunderstood!
08:50:26 <shachaf> Taneb: But an array is just a function from indices to addresses.
08:51:43 <Taneb> Yes, I'd imagine an index of a would be usable as an index of a' if a' is the same array
08:51:50 <Taneb> Possibly even if a' is a slice of a?
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08:58:00 <shachaf> Taneb: This is sounding like a complicated feature.
08:58:18 <shachaf> Wouldn't you get a lot of the benefit from index types tied to array types but not to specific arrays?
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09:12:49 <Taneb> That wouldn't have prevented the error that inspired this
09:12:54 <Taneb> I'll do some thinking over the weekend
09:13:44 <Taneb> Because I was indexing into an array of indexes
09:19:17 <shachaf> Right. So if your array of indices and array of values had different types, it could've helped.
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10:33:06 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck extensions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54925&oldid=52755 * Chronos * (+19)
10:38:10 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck extensions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54926&oldid=54925 * Chronos * (+39) added Grawlix
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10:50:45 <ais523> is there a standard formalization for computable partial functions?
10:50:52 <ais523> e.g. based on a Turing machine with some specific I/O mechanism?
10:51:20 <ais523> we have Turing machines as a formalism for halt/no-halt programs, and brainfuck as a formalism for interactive I/O
10:51:27 <ais523> but the case of non-interactive I/O is a bit less clear to me
10:53:03 <int-e> there are partial recursive functions...
10:54:08 <ais523> hmm, the µ-recursive functions seem to be a standard definition of what I'm looking for
10:54:20 <int-e> or you could use Brainfuck without , with some fixed convention for reading the input to tape. (say, >[,>]<[<]> ... i.e., the input starts from the second tape position; the first byte is kept at 0)
10:54:28 <ais523> (it's basically primitive recursive + a minimum operator)
10:54:43 <ais523> right, I'm hoping for a mathematical definition really
10:54:59 <int-e> then I'd use that one
10:55:04 <ais523> I'm working on a language that aims to be a "standard language for noninteractive I/O" which you implement to prove your language can do it
10:55:19 <ais523> so I'd like to prove my language equivalent to the mathematical definition
10:57:46 <int-e> the formalization I've recently worked with cheated a bit... a partial recursive function is a partial function whose graph (modulo an encoding of pairs) is a recursively enumerable set; a set X is recursively enumerable if there is a function f such that x in X iff there is a y with f(x,y) = 0.
10:58:36 <int-e> (This is equivalent to adding a minimisation operator... thanks the the normal form theorem, essentially ... but the formalization doesn't prove that.)
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10:59:47 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck extensions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54927&oldid=54926 * Chronos * (+48)
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11:31:09 <wob_jonas> "<ais523> is there a standard formalization for computable partial functions?" => that language Amycus was intended to be before I made an error is a pretty good formulation for that
11:31:37 <wob_jonas> the functions take integers as input and give integers as output, but lists and the code of the functions are also encoded as integers
11:31:45 <wob_jonas> actually natural numbers, not integers
11:32:04 <wob_jonas> no interactive IO mechanism, just an input parameter and an output parameter
11:32:43 <ais523> what I'm learning from this is that the standard formalisations are much more complicated than my typical tarpit :-)
11:33:25 <wob_jonas> use the language Amycus was meant to be
11:34:08 <wob_jonas> it only has function calls, successor for integers, making pairs, constant zero, and comparison or whatever the primitives were
11:37:16 <wob_jonas> the primitives are: 0: identity function, 1: any constant, 2: successor, 3: tuple indexing, 4: equality, 5: composition, 6: eval
11:37:22 <wob_jonas> darn, yes, that's not the simple language you want
11:38:06 <wob_jonas> it's eval in my botched Amycus version
11:38:33 <wob_jonas> it was something more natural in the original Amycus
11:40:51 <wob_jonas> ais523: in the mainstream places that use Turing-machines, they use multi-tape machines to define things like this, I think.
11:41:04 <wob_jonas> as in, with separate tapes just for input and output
11:42:38 <wob_jonas> ... how the heck did the original Amycus work? I never really wrote it down properly
11:44:06 <wob_jonas> those weren't how the primitives worked
11:44:53 <wob_jonas> the trick is that you have to consider everything as multi-argument functions, taking not a single integer, but a list of which it will access only the first few (constant number of) elements
11:45:41 <ais523> hmm, that's basically a syntax for µ-recursion at this point I think
11:46:59 <ais523> µ-recursion has integer successor, +1, identity, composition/substitution, primitive recursion, minimisation
11:47:26 <wob_jonas> rule 1 is constant, rule 2 is successor, rule 3 accesses an input argument (at a given constant index), rule 4 is equality conditional, rule 5 is composition, and rule 6 is sort of eval, but 5 and 6 together can be used to emulate the S from a lambda expression, that is, calling variable functions
11:48:39 <wob_jonas> ais523: another thing you could do is lambda calculus where every value is either a function or a natural number, and if you try to call a natural number or do arithmetic on a function, you get a runtime error. this is somewhat similar to the original Amycus
11:49:27 <wob_jonas> only the original Amycus doesn't give runtime errors when you mix types, and also uses some de-Bruin or whatever encoding of the lambda terms
11:52:16 <wob_jonas> and the syntax is common-lisp-like in that the ordinary syntax lets you call only constant functions, and you need a special primitive 6 to call the result of a computation
11:52:45 <wob_jonas> and you need that for Turing-completeness, because just like in lambda-calculus, calling the result of a computation is the only way to loop
11:55:23 <wob_jonas> but yes, lambda calculus is probably not the easiest to simulate if you want to prove lots of languages T-c
11:58:14 <wob_jonas> the model I would prefer is pointer machines with read-only heap, no call stack only gotos. these can take input and give output in a register.
11:58:40 <wob_jonas> but that's also not one you'd want to implement.
11:58:45 <ais523> what's a read-only heap? do you mean that objects are read-only after construction?
11:59:32 <wob_jonas> yes, you can create conses (or possibly other algebraic structures too, declared at compile time, but here let's stick to conses), you have registers, each value is either a null or a pointer to a cons,
12:00:23 <wob_jonas> the operations are determining if a register contains cons and conditional jumping (there's no comparison), taking the car or cdr of a register and putting it to another register, copying a register to another register (this is actually optional), and putting null to a register.
12:01:07 <wob_jonas> also allocating a new cell on the heap by consing two registers and putting a pointer to the result in a register.
12:01:23 <wob_jonas> each state of the program tells which of these are done, and one or two next states.
12:01:40 <ais523> hmm, you could almost do this using bignums and mingle from INTERCAL (together with a corresponding demingle)
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12:01:59 <ais523> actually, given how easy demingle is to write in INTERCAL, this is basically bignum INTERCAL full stop :-)
12:03:50 <wob_jonas> ais523: perhaps, but actually representing trees with integers is not very natural, they tend to grow exponentially
12:04:11 <wob_jonas> anyway, that's sort of what Amycus does, but with a different representation as integers that grows even worse
12:04:28 <ais523> wob_jonas: well these integers aren't really interpreted as integers
12:04:31 <wob_jonas> so in an implementation, you'll actually store lists, not integers
12:04:39 <ais523> they're just a Gödel encoding of nested conses
12:07:02 <wob_jonas> anyway, if you want easy proof of T-c, then you don't even want to store trees,
12:07:08 <wob_jonas> you want some simpler language that works only with integers
12:07:50 <ais523> I'm working on one now
12:07:53 <wob_jonas> those could take input and output in a register, right?
12:08:01 <ais523> I just wanted to prove it /equivalent/ to the existing examples
12:08:08 <ais523> and yes, Minsky machines are non-interactive-IO complete with 3 counters
12:08:18 <ais523> but I'm not sure if there's a formal proof of that anywhere
12:09:45 <wob_jonas> TAOCP uses a string-replacement esolang (Chomsky style) to define computations in the abstract sense, but I'm not sure what IO that has
12:10:00 <wob_jonas> do we even have a wiki entry for that by the way?
12:10:53 <wob_jonas> no we don't. I'll have to create one
12:14:24 <ais523> wob_jonas: that's what I was working on :-)
12:14:29 <ais523> although probably with slightly different semantics
12:14:42 <ais523> you can define noninteractive I/O for it fairly easily
12:15:16 <esowiki> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54928&oldid=53643 * B jonas * (+218)
12:19:30 <ais523> hmm, it seems that we have a copy of _The Theory of Algorithms_ in our university somewhere
12:20:21 <wob_jonas> ais523: Knuth also lists a newer version
12:20:39 <wob_jonas> and be careful, there are so many different books named like that
12:21:24 <wob_jonas> maybe the popular title was "Introduction to the theory of algorithms"
12:21:37 <ais523> wob_jonas: I checked to make sure the author matched too
12:21:43 <ais523> although it seems that the original wasn't in English, this one is a translation
12:21:59 <ais523> (I assume it wouldn't have been translated to English if it was already in English)
12:27:05 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, and Knuth gives a reference to a translation
12:27:36 <ais523> I've had interesting experiences in the past with following citations
12:27:42 <wob_jonas> ais523: by the way, there's an interesting tradeoff here. I'm not talking about the one how Minsky machines are very easy to implement but not very powerful, but among the more powerful ones:
12:28:12 <ais523> once I discoverde that everyone was citing a particular book, but they actually just copied a citation from a well-known paper and the thing cited isn't actually there
12:28:28 <ais523> and not only that, but nobody else had checked at least at my University (it took them a while to find the book in question, and it hadn't been checked out for decades)
12:28:33 <wob_jonas> pointer machines let you easily define the runtime of a program, at least up to a polylog factor, so you cal tell if an algorithm runs in O(n**(1+epsilon)) time or O(n**(2+epsilon)) time for input of length n;
12:28:55 <ais523> err, that statement about pointer machines seems wrong
12:29:10 <wob_jonas> whereas string replacement machines let you easily define the memory use of a program, but not so much the runtime.
12:29:13 <ais523> you're saying "it's easy to define the runtime" whereas what you mean is "it's easy to define the runtime /on a pointer machine/"
12:29:28 <ais523> you're using pointer machines as the reference for runtime implicitly, because your computer is one of those
12:29:51 <wob_jonas> ais523: of course it is, but I mean it's a useful definition of runtime, as in, one that will correspond nicely (up to a polylog factor) to other more complicated realistic computable models,
12:30:28 <wob_jonas> and no, pointer machines still aren't the best choice for this, but among the simpler models they are a pretty good choice I think
12:31:46 <wob_jonas> you could measure runtime on a Turing-machine or a string-replacement machine or a Minsky-machine, but that's a less useful thing to measure, because the best runtime you get is still too slow for reality
12:32:24 <wob_jonas> Turing-machines let you measure the runtime up to polynomials, so you can define the class of polynomial runtime algorithms, as in P for decision problems
12:37:47 <wob_jonas> So what's the name of this esolang in Knuth 1.1?
12:38:45 <ais523> hmm, I suddenly realised that the most Knuth content I've read is when he sent me an email
12:38:52 <ais523> which is probably not a good thing
12:39:14 <ais523> he wanted an updated version of the INTERCAL interpreter
12:39:33 <wob_jonas> yes, but I mean how have you not read a lot of TAOCP or Concrete Mathematics?
12:39:44 <wob_jonas> those books are thick, they're probably thicker than the email he sent you
12:40:03 <ais523> a book being large doesn't necessarily mean I've read it
12:40:06 <ais523> also it was a short email
12:40:06 <wob_jonas> I'm not saying they're cheap, but they're worth the money
12:40:13 <ais523> the "not a good thing" was about not having read TAOCP
12:40:21 <wob_jonas> sure, I don't expect that you've read all of it
12:40:28 <wob_jonas> I just expect that you've read some of it
12:40:38 <ais523> hmm, how would I know which bits to read?
12:40:58 <wob_jonas> there's a procedure described for that in the introductino of TAOCP
12:41:07 <wob_jonas> that's for telling which part of TAOCP to read
12:41:14 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure for Concrete Mathematics
12:42:12 <wob_jonas> it's actually sort of a separate section after the preface, called "Procedure for Reading This Set of Books"
12:44:12 <wob_jonas> Also, if you can, read the third edition of volume 1 and 2, and the second edition of volume 3, as opposed to older editions; except obviously read the ultimate edition instead when it is published like twenty years from now
12:51:22 <wob_jonas> Hmm... I'll have to try to understand how rusts's CoerceUnsized works, because currently it sounds like heavily compiler-supported black magic to me that shouldn't have a right to exist, but it probably isn't that
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15:07:56 <arseniiv> is there a known esolang based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9C-recursive_function ? Got one with binary strings instead of naturals, tell me if you want the description!
15:09:05 <arseniiv> it’s pretty old, I haven’t thought to dump it to the wiki and I hadn’t even known about this channel
15:18:15 <int-e> putting it on the wiki sounds like a good plan to me (provided you are okay with the CC0 license)
15:20:03 <arseniiv> is something like MathJax/KaTeX supported there?
15:23:12 <ais523> it might be useful, not sure how easy mathjax is to install
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15:26:43 <arseniiv> what code has fungot for Befunge? I have stuck with the captcha :D
15:26:43 <fungot> arseniiv: so it should be: ( format " fnord" on my site if you want, but it's usually preferred to not have a standard fingerprint implementation
15:27:39 <Taneb> I am fairly sure fungot cannot interpret befunge
15:27:40 <fungot> Taneb: but we'll see. it's still the same as picking the regular search replace in editors. she worked for a contract was done with plt. pgsql or something like the system() function in that program, guess not
15:28:15 <arseniiv> then I’m going to read its page, it seems
15:34:59 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Arseniiv * New user account
15:35:22 <arseniiv> ha ha ha I found js interpreter
15:35:50 <arseniiv> (at first I proceeded manually, but then I got that it would be a long story)
15:45:58 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54929&oldid=54924 * Arseniiv * (+234) introduced myself
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18:05:34 <oerjan> `! befunge 9386882626>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
18:07:52 <oerjan> HackE{g,s}o was originally conceived to be an esolang interpreting bot like the old EgoBot, but more flexible. alas it got out of hand.
18:08:14 <oerjan> it doesn't help that the actual port of EgoBot's langs doesn't fit well into the rest.
18:08:46 <arseniiv> alas it got out of hand.> aren’t they all? :D
18:09:01 <oerjan> i mean it got used for even sillier things instead.
18:10:16 <arseniiv> I rethought the language I’m going to post, and its name will be YEOOIIOOIOA. Maybe someone can deduce what it means, while I’ll be writing the description!
18:10:43 <oerjan> arseniiv: the reason fungot cannot interpret befunge despite being written in it is because the obvious way of doing it would allow you to take over the bot
18:10:43 <fungot> oerjan: eiku joskus. sillon kun ei oo fnord toi on fnord
18:10:56 <oerjan> so only fizzie is allowed to run that command.
18:10:59 <arseniiv> (that one with binary strings, not ugh… Nora)
18:11:51 <arseniiv> oerjan: what, fungot is written on Befunge?? :o :o
18:11:51 <fungot> arseniiv: why? it would be a good idea; how else are you going to use an interpreter: interpreter program note: program can be the value of baz
18:11:57 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
18:14:30 <oerjan> OOIIOOIO could be L, or possibly 2.
18:14:53 <arseniiv> I’ll guess I’ll be writing the description for several hours, my own notes are quite sparse
18:15:29 <arseniiv> yeah, it's 2, or more specifically "2", as there is a mechanism to interpret it as a number, and it will be 0x132
18:23:11 <arseniiv> am I format inline code by using <tt>...</tt> or some other thing?
18:27:31 <oerjan> arseniiv: <code>...</code> is the usual way
18:28:44 <arseniiv> isn’t there a distinction between inline code and a block? ok
18:29:00 <oerjan> yes, blocks can be done in two different ways
18:29:24 <oerjan> either indent all lines with 1 space, or use <pre>...</pre>
18:30:18 <oerjan> <code> is inline, not a block
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18:51:10 <izabera> Taneb: why did jay-z start selling ice cream?
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19:05:15 <zzo38> I think I fixed ff-composite.c now, did anyone make tests?
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19:16:53 <zzo38> Do you like my idea of Scientific Role Playing System? There are difference from GURPS, such as in GURPS I think the points are too coarse, so SciRPS has less coarse. Also, instead of zero level being human level as in GURPS, the zero is nothing (although the human template is included in the book). There is powers and skills.
19:18:48 <zzo38> Skills will have both the potential level and the actual level, and some skills may be worth different number of points. Attributes are also skills. Powers can have modifiers with a "layer system"; there can be many different kind of powers, such as normal powers (vision, flying, claws, poison bite, walking, etc) and special powers (such as magical and psychic powers).
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19:54:04 <Taneb> izabera, ice cream is good
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20:34:04 <arseniiv> ah, I’m now come to the heart of the issue and am writing about expression semantics
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21:08:15 <izabera> Taneb: he sells ice cream because he has 99 problems
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21:32:50 <fizzie> shachaf: Glada vappen.
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21:44:15 <wob_jonas> zzo38: why are ffpbm and pbmff not named ffpnm and pnmff instead?
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21:57:21 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54930&oldid=54929 * E * (+379) me
21:57:50 <esowiki> [[User:E]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54931 * E * (+5) Created page with "fnord"
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22:13:32 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I don't know; that is just what I did at first. Maybe ffpnm/pnmff might have been better, but I won't change it now.
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22:17:23 <zzo38> (Possibly, because they called it Netpbm, even though there are other Netpbm formats too, is probably why I did that.)
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22:34:30 <zzo38> I tried to answer your question
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22:40:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: gcc warns that the chan global variable is unused in ff-back.c and ff-matrix.c
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22:44:16 <zzo38> You are correct; I removed that global variables
22:45:47 * boily suffers from today's alt texkcdt puns. ow.
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22:52:13 <int-e> tbh cutting a pizza into a spiral sounds tedious
22:53:24 <int-e> unless, perhaps, you use an industrial strength record player
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22:59:46 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54932 * Arseniiv * (+10156) at last
23:01:37 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54933&oldid=54932 * Arseniiv * (-2) link to Wikipedia is now fixed
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23:11:40 <esowiki> [[User:Arseniiv]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54934 * Arseniiv * (+63) let there be a page
23:23:38 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54935&oldid=54933 * Arseniiv * (-6) typos and minor things
23:24:40 <arseniiv> should I add to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list or categorization is enough?
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23:43:07 <zzo38> It mentions Unicode, although Unicode seems irrelevant to the specification, since they are just byte strings, whether they represent Unicode characters or something else, it seem like
23:48:38 <arseniiv> yeah, it’s all byte strings, but for I/O I think it’s useful to treat them like UTF-8-encoded somethings
23:49:41 <arseniiv> or ASCII-encoded; Hello, world example utilizes at least that
23:51:15 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54936&oldid=54935 * Arseniiv * (+1) there was ANSI instead of ASCII, what have I thought?
23:52:05 <zzo38> Yes, although you can leave the encoding up to the user; it might not even be text, but rather a picture (in farbfeld or Sixel format, perhaps), or audio, or non-Unicode text. If it is UTF-8 then of course it should not contain any invalid UTF-8 characters, but if it isn't, then it can be anything. Due to this, possibly also, an empty bit string becomes empty output, too.
23:52:24 <zzo38> (Note that ASCII is a subset of Unicode, so I am not counting it as "non-Unicode text" for the purpose of the above.)
23:54:43 <arseniiv> you’re right in that I overspecified what I/O there could be, I’ll edit
00:00:41 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54937&oldid=54936 * Arseniiv * (+115) I was too restrictive
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00:02:53 <arseniiv> one guy suggested to name that no-Nora language FSoup, as in “function soup” or “functional soup”
00:03:35 <zzo38> OK, although I thought that, rather they are simply binary and numeric I/O; whether or not the binary I/O is treated as Unicode depends what stdin/stdout is connected to, not on the implementation of the programming language interpreter, I should think. If it is a terminal emulator in UTF-8 mode, then it will be Unicode with UTF-8 encoding. Otherwise, not. This is like any program (including brainfuck) will do.
00:05:09 <zzo38> Whether or not the implementation supports Unicode is irrelevant (unless it is a GUI). For command-line implementations, you do not need to implement Unicode; it already is if the terminal emulator is.
00:05:39 <arseniiv> I got to go soon, you’re free to add/edit I/O bits :)
00:06:33 <arseniiv> also, about “implementing Unicode”, my wording is quite bad :D
00:07:26 <zzo38> Yes, I started editing it and will fix that
00:07:33 <arseniiv> I’d be very glad to see those angles rounded
00:09:12 <arseniiv> also, feel free to add yourself to authors if you wish
00:09:14 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54938&oldid=54937 * Zzo38 * (-82)
00:10:52 <zzo38> I only made some minor changes and did not invent the programming language, so I do not intend to add myself to the authors. Anyone who checks the history can see that I was part of it.
00:11:09 <esowiki> [[YEOOIIOOIOA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54939&oldid=54938 * Zzo38 * (+23)
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01:00:33 <HackEso> 1/2:lorem ipsum//Business Internet the it China Product Product NATO \ catamorphism//A catamorphism is when you recurse too greedily and too deep. \ war//A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age. \ ctc//CTC stands for Closed Timelike Citation, which is what happens when news sites cite Wikipedia's badly referenced articles and then get added to them. \ photograph//A photograph is a device for creat
01:01:18 <boily> look at this graph ♪
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04:24:04 <Sgeo_> Did I ever congratulate ais523 on being on the NetHack dev team?
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06:37:37 <shachaf> whoa, was that after alercah?
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12:09:50 <danil> What is the haskell bots name?
12:41:43 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54940&oldid=54530 * Mr. Xcoder * (+216) Added the current world record (code-golf) for Hello, World!
12:48:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Robertpmorton39 * New user account
12:54:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54941&oldid=54930 * Robertpmorton39 * (+303) Introduced myself. ~~~~
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17:31:01 <zzo38> OK, so, the rules now use {rN} to designate chapter symbols in ASCII.
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17:59:08 <zzo38> I had some questions about Saga in Magic: the Gathering, and now they have been answered by the latest rules. One of my questions was the order of the turn-based action relative to the turn-based action for schemes; it has been answered now, which is, Sagas turn based action is after schemes turn-based actions.
18:02:36 <zzo38> (I also don't like rule 800.4m; my variant deletes it. Objects owned by a player that no longer exist will no longer exist, even if they are in the ante zone, as far as the game is concerned. However, if the match rules allow, they may still exist in the ante zone of the match rules; the players then still exist as far as the match rules are concerned even though they don't exist as far as the game is concerned.)
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18:46:44 <zzo38> Do you know how to play at Magic: the Gathering?
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18:52:35 <APic> To play _at_ probably: You sit there and accumulate Cards from somewhere
18:52:40 <APic> _How_ to play, no Idea
18:54:04 <zzo38> Then, read the rules and then you can how how to play this game.
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19:55:18 <HackEso> e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player.
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21:16:38 <int-e> . o O ( "E is a theorem prover for full first-order logic with equality." )
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21:36:08 <zzo38> When targeting MMIX with GCC, there is a -mbase-addresses option, although what might be more useful I think is if you can specify which variables can be addressed by global registers and which ones aren't, so that you can avoid them when they aren't needed, and use them when it is useful to do so, rather than being one setting for the entire file.
21:54:01 <zzo38> Another option is that GCC has -mtune option for many targets but not MMIX; for MMIX the value for the -mtune option could be the name of a .mmconfig file. This can be used to determine what instructions are best, even though it will still run correctly on any MMIX implementation.
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22:22:09 <izabera> maybe it's because mmix doesn't exist?
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23:06:42 <fizzie> On the beach there was a man selling "really shitty advice" for $1/piece.
23:07:03 <izabera> was the advice to not buy really shitty advice from men on the beach?
23:07:19 <fizzie> I didn't buy, but that would be very meta.
23:07:30 <fizzie> I assume it works like the minor consultations from the Oracle in NetHack.
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23:54:05 <esowiki> [[OM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54942 * Robertpmorton39 * (+7952) Created page with "OM stands for "Only Macros". Everything that happens in OM happens because of a macro being evaluated. Because of this, there is no distinction between code and data in OM. =..."
23:55:38 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54943&oldid=54885 * Robertpmorton39 * (+9) Added OM.
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00:56:30 <esowiki> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54944&oldid=53450 * Rdococ * (+248)
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01:48:30 <esowiki> [[OM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54945&oldid=54942 * Robertpmorton39 * (+24) Added High-level category.
02:06:12 <HackEso> 1/2:remorse//.--. . --- .--. .-.. . / .-- .. - .... / -. --- / .-. . -- --- .-. ... . / .. -. ... .. ... - / --- -. / ... .- -.-- .. -. --. / . ...- . .-. -.-- - .... .. -. --. / .. -. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . --..-- / -... ..- - / --- -. .-.. -.-- / --- -. -.-. . .-.-.- \ lachine//Lachine is an unholy portal to China, closely guarded from Ëvil by Roujo. \ otoh//OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand". \ møøse//Møøse is Norwegian for mo
02:06:15 <HackEso> 2/2:ss. \ fisherman's friend//Fisherman's Friend is the friend of the palate that is more sore than discerning.
02:06:41 <HackEso> 1/2:1292) <fungot> boily: i walked 5 miles to get to http://community.schemewiki.org from there. but it's written in a relatively portable style? \ 816) <GreyKnight> fungot, sing me to sleep <fungot> GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord <GreyKnight> This is not a very good song \ 140) <catseye>
02:06:44 <HackEso> 2/2: i like the feeling of freedom you get driving a bus \ 1088) <zzo38> No, you are mix up. Universe is the, made of spacetime, and of mathematics; not "kind of a dick" and so on. \ 498) <elliott_> now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = <fungot> elliott_: let's not start that again."
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02:17:01 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f | xargs grep -FIi shachaf | wc -l
02:17:02 <HackEso> xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option \ grep: wisdom/second: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom: Is a directory \ grep: introduction: No such file or directory \ grep: the: No such file or directory \ grep: single: No such file or directory \ grep: objects: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/soviet: No such file or directory \ grep: russia: No such file or directory \ grep: wisdom/civ
02:17:48 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f | wc -l
02:17:49 <moony> so is hackego truely dead?
02:17:58 <moony> or has Gregor just not been awoken from his slumber yet
02:18:36 <boily> mhelloony. do not Disturb the Great Slumber. there be Fungots.
02:19:03 <boily> `` find wisdom -type f -exec grep -FIi shachaf {} \; | wc -l
02:25:12 <HackEso> Newbie of the Month is a traditional #esoteric position. Benefits include gentle mentoring, like having shachaf revert all your wisdom additions.
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07:36:11 <danil> Grrrrrr.......... That "array out of range error."
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07:44:36 <int-e> heh, just use a longer range weapon to ... access ... it.
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09:05:44 <danil> ((Out of stack))^^S
09:06:19 <danil> ^ul ((...OUT OF STACK!))S^^S
09:06:20 <fungot> (...OUT OF STACK!) ...out of stack!
09:06:45 <danil> ^ul ((...OUT OF STACK!))^S^S
09:06:45 <fungot> ...OUT OF STACK! ...out of stack!
09:07:35 <danil> fungot: what is your favourite language?
09:07:35 <fungot> danil: i've never seen a girl naked? u are a robot or sumthin or just a normal nested list, not a macro. though it sucks it's still ' standard'
09:09:40 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball rreree rerere botsnack bf
09:10:01 <fungot> ,[[->+<],]>2+2<[->-[>+>2]>[+[-<+>]>+>2]<5]>4+<2[>2-+11[>+8>+4<2-]>+.+12.+14.>+2.<4-]>2[+10[>+7>+4<2-]>+.+33.>+2.<2]
09:10:40 <fungot> ,[.,]+14[>+8>+4>+7>+6<4-]>2+2.-26.>2+3.+14.+7.<+.>+3.-2.<+2.<.<+4.>3+2.<2.>2+5.<+3.-3.<.+73.+5.>2.<.>-2.-4.<-4.<2.>-5.>2+.-.<.>-2.<-65.<-.+13.>2-10.<.>+4.<2-6.<-2.>2.+69.<2+.>.+5.>.<-2.>+4.>-3.-67.<2-2.<-.-3.-8.>+2.<-6.>-5..>.<+.<+6.>3.<2-2.>-8.<+2.<.>+7.>.<2.-2.>3.<3-.>2+4.<-2.>+4.-2.<-5.>2.<-6.<.>+3.>.<3.+.>+2.<+7.>-.+10.<+.>2+.<2+.>-5.>2+.-.<-31.<2+.>-2.>2.<2-5.+2.+3.>+31.>.<+4.<-4.-8.>+6.+3.<2-2.>-5.>+2.<2-4.+6.-.>3+12.-12.
09:10:47 <fungot> : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try ...
09:11:14 <fungot> +15[>+4>+7>+7>+8<4-]>3-.>-4..<2+7.<-2.-11..>2-3.<+3.>2-5.-3.<-4.>+2.<+6.<.<-.>3+.+3.<.<2+.>+4.>+2.+2.-2.<2.,[.,]
09:11:24 <fungot> http://esolangs.org/wiki/
09:12:02 <danil> ^bool Is Muddle turing-complete?
09:12:34 <fungot> (^bf -- evaluates brainfuck)S
09:12:58 <fungot> ^bf -- evaluates brainfuck
09:13:27 <fungot> 0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233.377.610.987.1597.2584.4181.6765.10946.17711.28657.46368.75025.121393.196418.317811.514229.832040.1346269.2178309.3524578.5702887.9227465.14930352.24157817.39088169.632459 ...
09:13:33 <fungot> >+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][]
09:15:18 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
09:15:39 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
09:15:53 <fungot> danil: the basis of any terms of the signatory did not commit allowing excess cfjing, to be detected and reported by the
09:17:04 <fungot> ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output!
09:17:11 <fungot> ((ha)(ha))(~:^:(. )*S( )~**a~^!a*~:^):^
09:18:00 <danil> ^ul ((1)(0)S)::::SSS
09:18:24 <danil> ^ul ((1)(0)S):^:^:^:SSS
09:18:52 <danil> ^ul ((1)(0)S):^:^:^
09:19:48 <danil> ^ul ((1)(0)S):::^~:~(1)(0):S
09:20:15 <danil> ^ul ((1)(0)S):::^~:~(1)(0):*S*S
09:21:12 <danil> international millipede for esoteric... What?
09:21:20 <fungot> ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output!
09:22:08 <fungot> >+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][]
09:22:16 <fungot> ((ha)(ha))(~:^:(. )*S( )~**a~^!a*~:^):^
09:22:36 <danil> ^ul ((ha)(1)(~:^:(. )*S( )~**a~^!a*~:^):^
09:22:47 <danil> ((ha)(h))(~:^:(. )*S( )~**a~^!a*~:^):^
09:22:58 <danil> ^ul ((ha)(h))(~:^:(. )*S( )~**a~^!a*~:^):^
09:22:58 <fungot> h. ha. ha h. ha h ha. ha h ha ha h. ha h ha ha h ha h ha. ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h. ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha h ha. ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h. ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha ha h ha h ha ha h ha h ...too much output!
09:25:08 <danil> fungot: are you written in befunge?
09:25:08 <fungot> danil: if intent to perform the described action violates the rule to have been peformed, the action
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10:02:44 <int-e> That would work, but 01 would understand it.
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10:05:14 <danil> I have 2 keyboards connected to my laptop, so 5t cant rea33y w6r2 6n 0y 3a*t6* 2eyb6ard, unlike the external one
10:05:42 <int-e> ah "u" is that key "below" the 7... right.
10:06:13 * int-e hates laptop keyboards
10:06:47 <danil> I do also. All m programming is on a feeble acer NETBOOK.
10:08:05 <danil> How did you make those italics?
10:08:39 <int-e> A netbook may be just fine for programming... until you c.o..m...p....i.....l......e......
10:08:48 <danil> fungot: do you hate laptop keyboards?
10:09:14 <danil> int-e:Thats why I use python.
10:09:24 <int-e> danil: italics? I guess that's your client; was it the emote? (most clients I know use /me: /me tests)
10:10:02 <int-e> technically it's a CTCP ACTION
10:11:15 <danil> ^ul (Compile)(Slow)*S~S
10:11:15 <fungot> CompileSlow ...out of stack!
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10:21:52 <danil> ^ul (What can the time be?) (1)(2)(3)**S
10:22:16 <danil> ^ul (What can the time be?)(1)(2)(3)**S
10:23:53 <danil> ^ul (Unary counter)S~(1):*:*:*s
10:23:53 <fungot> Unary counter ...out of stack!
10:24:29 <danil> ^ul (Unary counter)S~(1):*:*:*S
10:24:29 <fungot> Unary counter ...out of stack!
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16:11:06 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54946&oldid=54549 * Conor O'Brien * (+153) /* Attache */
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19:49:26 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * IchbineinNerd * New user account
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19:53:28 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54947&oldid=54941 * IchbineinNerd * (+382) /* Introductions */
19:55:53 <esowiki> [[Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54948&oldid=47067 * IchbineinNerd * (+80) /* Examples */
19:56:14 <esowiki> [[Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54949&oldid=54948 * IchbineinNerd * (+3) /* Examples */
20:23:12 <arseniiv> can’t understand if this edit is an error, or a previous claim that Hello World is impossible is an error. On the first hand, delaying printing is not an issue. On the other hand, the original author should have been thought about it for more time(?)
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22:47:28 * boily angrily pokes fungot
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22:50:37 <boily> fizzie: sorry, can you refungot please?
22:58:19 * oerjan wonders if there's any causal connection between the poking and the timeout
22:59:19 <oerjan> something like fungot trying to answer, and crashing for some reason
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23:02:51 <fizzie> boily: Too difficult right now, sorry. SFO wifi doesn't allow SSH port 22 and I can just barely get a mobile signal.
23:03:37 <fizzie> I'll look into it when I get home. It's possible we're actually having network trouble there.
23:04:38 <fizzie> Yeah, can't reach fungot. Let's just hope it comes back up on it's own.
23:08:48 <boily> bonsøœirjan. most probably.
23:09:11 <boily> fizziello. SFO, as in KSFO?
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23:37:30 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/
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23:50:29 <oerjan> `learn 01 is an abbreviation that 01 understands.
23:50:32 <HackEso> Learned '01': 01 is an abbreviation that 01 understands.
23:50:51 <HackEso> Thanks, danil & int-e. Thanil & int-e.
00:06:35 <esowiki> [[Bugmaker]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54950&oldid=54949 * Oerjan * (-83) Revert erroneous/redundant changes (see Gotchas section)
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00:48:53 <boily> fungot: fungellot.
00:48:53 <fungot> boily: caption: your turn elements:
00:49:03 * boily captions his turn elements
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02:05:08 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54951&oldid=54940 * Robertpmorton39 * (+0) Fixed typo: wolrd -> world
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02:10:43 <esowiki> [[OM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54952&oldid=54945 * Robertpmorton39 * (+37) Added that OM was inspired by LISP and Wolfram.
02:23:55 <zzo38> I read on All The Tropes wiki that apparently someone playing chess promoted a pawn to a king because he did not know that it wasn't allowed; but his opponent did not complain and instead played a legal move which checkmated both kings at once.
02:38:49 <shachaf> zzo38: Today someone told me about a chess variation.
02:39:05 <shachaf> The variation is that you can see your own pieces but not your opponent's pieces.
02:40:24 <zzo38> Yes, I have heard of that before
02:40:46 <zzo38> If you make an illegal move the referee tells you that it is wrong and then you must try again.
02:42:16 <zzo38> Another variant (that I made up) is that only your opponent's king is invisible to you, and if you try three consecutive wrong moves before making a valid move then you lose.
03:34:18 <erkin> Why would you promote a pawn to a king?
03:46:42 <erkin> If you lose to a double check mate, the endgame notation should be 0-2
04:07:05 <Cale> erkin: To have a second king in case you lose your first one? :)
04:07:26 <erkin> Ah, always be prepared of course.
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04:14:03 <shachaf> zzo38: In Gess, you can create multiple Kings and you lose only when you have no kings left. Do you like this?
04:16:53 <erkin> Does the number of kings you've defeated affect your final score?
04:18:51 <shachaf> There are 512 possible pieces in Gess.
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04:35:47 <zzo38> Yes, there are other games that do stuff like that too.
04:37:22 <zzo38> Such as, in Tamerlane chess one of the pawns can promote into a king; if you do, then now you have two kings and if one is captured the other one can survive and the game will continue.
04:38:05 <shachaf> But in Gess there are no promotions.
04:38:15 <shachaf> You can construct pieces yourself.
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05:22:38 <\oren\_> one way to vary chess is to vary the board. for example what if the board was 8x9 instead of 8x8
05:23:04 <\oren\_> suddenly none of the opening books are valid
05:24:43 <shachaf> I guess that's illegal. 3x3.
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05:25:50 <\oren\_> shachaf: if it was 2x2 would each player have a king and a pawn or a king and a queen?
05:26:22 <\oren\_> i guess in either case the opening situation is a checkmate
05:26:32 <shachaf> It's not a checkmate, it's an illegal state.
05:26:44 <shachaf> Make it 4x4. Each player gets a king, a queen, and two pawns.
05:53:31 <imode> anybody have any resources for the history behind state machines?
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06:05:49 <Hooloovo0> I tried looking it up, saw the name minsky, and am now reading hakmem
06:06:03 <Hooloovo0> pretty sure minsky was somewhat important though
06:06:35 <imode> I'm just wondering where everybody got the idea.
06:19:30 <\oren\_> well IIRC programmers in olden days used to use box and arrow flowcharts a lot
06:23:18 <\oren\_> but I don't know if flowcharts in computer science came first or state machines came first
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06:25:41 <Hooloovo0> I'll give a guess that state machines were invented when computers were mostly classified
06:26:15 <Hooloovo0> it's a pretty essential thing to hardware, really
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06:49:22 <imode> yeah but has the idea of "finite control" been around longer than turing's idea of it?
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14:43:47 <HackEso> pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas
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16:12:50 <zzo38> These are some ideas I wrote for a story that can be used in GURPS game (you can also consider variants of some of these ideas for other role playing games you play in): https://arin.ga/yu6hkH Do you like this?
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16:54:57 <HackEso> 68) <scarf> and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source <scarf> whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain <scarf> it's all falling into place \ 77) <ais523> (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) \ 230) <zzo38> Lymia: I put big spider in my bed already. So if you have no more left you do not have to worry about it anymore. You can just take a cold shower or hot acid or whatever you wa
16:57:36 <HackEso> 254) <catseye> wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive \ 404) <elliott> God, I sure do hate Apple and their header files that only include the functions they're specified to. \ 437) <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? \ 828) <elliott> I kept telling my therapist I wanted more conventional, non-hip-hop-oriented treatment, but it was no use. my shrinkwrapped. <elliott> okay i hate myself for making a pun that bad <el
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18:18:18 <esowiki> [[Redcode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54953&oldid=44311 * Impomatic * (+10) /* External resources */ update location of standard
18:24:27 <impomatic> Esolang wiki ought to have a category for programming games.
18:25:37 <impomatic> There's FukYorBrane, Redcode, BF Joust, Pinkcode and Agony. (Not sure if I missed any)
18:29:03 <impomatic> I wonder if languages used for artificial life (e.g. Tierra's assembly language) belong on the wiki.
18:30:47 <imode> it'd be a nice addition!
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19:29:06 <HackEso> olist 1119: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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21:27:32 <\oren\_> If you use a sheet of blue construction paaper as a coffee filter your coffee will be blue
21:34:03 <rdococ> What happens if you use a polarizing filter?
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22:22:30 <boily> IT'S GOING TO MAY!
22:23:56 <fungot> boily: is a public monster purporting to resolve an agoran monster to be expunged,
22:24:20 <boily> an agoran monster? let's ask our local expert on the subject. alercah?
22:24:56 <alercah> I don't know if agora has ever expunged any records
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23:08:56 <shachaf> Cale, oerjan: I asked about this thing at https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2761022/characterizing-derivatives-and-other-functions-as-best-local-approximations hth
23:11:12 <oerjan> yay new girl genius! and i'm pretty sure who that is...
23:12:03 <oerjan> (he says, with neither of the obvious people around)
23:13:59 <shachaf> oerjan: there's a new olist too hth
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23:16:52 <shachaf> `le/rn olist//olist is a list of asymptotic operators. it includes o, O, Θ, Ω, ω.
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23:48:10 <esowiki> [[Brainwang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54954&oldid=53896 * Robertpmorton39 * (+1) Fixed typo: immediatly-> immediately
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