←2016-06 2016-07 2016-08→ ↑2016 ↑all
2016-07-01
00:10:18 <shachaf> `wisdom
00:10:36 <HackEgo> for further details//who knows
00:10:42 <shachaf> `wisdom
00:10:44 <HackEgo> pikachu//Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces.
00:10:53 <shachaf> `wisdom
00:10:54 <shachaf> `wisdom
00:10:54 <shachaf> `wisdom
00:11:02 <HackEgo> egobot//EgoBot is my arch-nemesis.
00:11:03 <HackEgo> dnm//dnm does not mind.
00:11:03 <HackEgo> ngram model//An ngram model is just a Markov model with a sliding window state
00:12:39 <oerjan> `slwd ngram model//s/$/./
00:12:44 <HackEgo> wisdom/ngram model//An ngram model is just a Markov model with a sliding window state.
00:16:37 <shachaf> Isn't it convenient how sled prints out the new contents?
00:17:05 <shachaf> `wisdom
00:17:07 <HackEgo> drone sex//Drone sex has never been observed in the wild; in fact it's rare to see drones in their natural habitat because they are extremely shy. Experiments with drones in captivity have only resulted in broken drones, and a rotor stuck in the ceiling. We are still looking for a biological explanation for the ever increasing drone population.
00:17:25 <shachaf> `` rgrep -P '[^\.]$' wisdom
00:17:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/6 random numbers:4 8 15 16 23 42 \ wisdom/¯\(°_o)/¯:¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ wisdom/soup:What soup, Doc? \ wisdom/haskell:Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' \ wisdom/french:Le français n'est pas le démon, visitez les Coupeurs. Ne pas couvrir. Meilleur avant! \ wisd
00:18:05 <shachaf> `1 rgrep -P '[^\.?!\d]$' wisdom
00:18:08 <HackEgo> 1/78:wisdom/¯\(°_o)/¯:¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ wisdom/haskell:Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' \ wisdom/elendil:Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his min
00:18:24 <shachaf> `spam
00:18:25 <HackEgo> 2/78:d, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. \ wisdom/scotland:<Phantom_Hoover> it's that place where they all wear kilts and chase haggises around whilst warding off the loch ness monster with bagpipes \ wisdom/#programmin
00:18:55 <shachaf> `spam maybe just a few more
00:18:56 <HackEgo> 3/78:g:No such channel. See `? #esoteric \ wisdom/mroman_:mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure. (NSFW) \ wisdom/hydrogen:Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal. \ wisdom/guestbot:guestbot is n
00:19:40 <FireFly> `cat bin/spam
00:19:42 <HackEgo> line="$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}p" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
00:22:01 <shachaf> `slwd hydrogen//s#\s+##
00:22:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/hydrogen//Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal.
00:24:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
00:24:22 <oerjan> shachaf: yes
00:26:08 <oerjan> `slwd elendil//s#\s+##
00:26:10 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
00:26:36 <shachaf> `` rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:26:37 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil:Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. \ wisdom/hydrogen:Hydrogen is what sta
00:27:03 <oerjan> wat
00:27:13 <shachaf> `mkx bin/cwlprits//culprits "wisdom/$1"
00:27:17 <HackEgo> bin/cwlprits
00:27:23 <shachaf> `cwlprits elendil
00:27:33 <oerjan> do you really have to ask
00:27:33 <HackEgo> b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas
00:28:06 <oerjan> oh wait
00:28:29 <oerjan> `slwd elendil//s#\s+$##
00:28:31 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
00:28:39 <oerjan> `slwd hydrogen//s#\s+$##
00:28:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/hydrogen//Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal.
00:29:04 <oerjan> `` rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:29:07 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil:Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron. \ wisdom/hydrogen:Hydrogen is what sta
00:29:14 <oerjan> WTF IS HAPPENING
00:29:27 <oerjan> i suppose there's something wrong about the regexp
00:29:36 <shachaf> Oh, I bet it's because it's sed.
00:29:49 <oerjan> `slwd hydrogen//s#\s\+$##
00:29:51 <HackEgo> wisdom/hydrogen//Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal.
00:29:59 <oerjan> `slwd elendil//s#\s\+$##
00:30:03 <shachaf> Right.
00:30:04 <oerjan> `` rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:30:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
00:30:05 <shachaf> Now I remember.
00:30:06 <HackEgo> wisdom/math:Math class is tough! \ wisdom/utumno:Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. \ wisdom/wealhtheow:Wealhtheow is the barkeep in the tavern where the adventuring party of Beowulf meet at the start of the story. \ wisdom/fat:Fats are one of the four basic classes
00:30:16 <shachaf> oerjan: also fix the double space in elendil twh
00:30:31 <shachaf> `cwlprits math
00:30:36 <HackEgo> b_jonas
00:30:48 <oerjan> `slwd elendil//s#\s\+# #
00:30:49 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
00:30:53 <oerjan> wat
00:31:22 <oerjan> `slwd elendil//s# \+# #
00:31:24 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
00:31:27 <oerjan> nope
00:31:34 <shachaf> oerjan: 1 is 1 or more hth
00:31:43 <oerjan> `slwd elendil//s# \+# #g
00:31:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
00:31:50 <oerjan> OKAY
00:31:52 <shachaf> ah, i see
00:32:11 <shachaf> There should be a version of sled which uses perl instlead
00:32:52 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas it looks like you tend to put trailing spaces in your wisdoms tdnh
00:32:52 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:33:30 <shachaf> the dogs now howl
00:33:42 <shachaf> `` rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:33:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/math:Math class is tough! \ wisdom/utumno:Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. \ wisdom/wealhtheow:Wealhtheow is the barkeep in the tavern where the adventuring party of Beowulf meet at the start of the story. \ wisdom/fat:Fats are one of the four basic classes
00:34:02 <shachaf> `cwlprits utumno
00:34:08 <HackEgo> b_jonas
00:34:12 <shachaf> but why
00:34:26 <shachaf> `` rgrep -Pl '\s+$' wisdom | wc -l
00:34:29 <HackEgo> 11
00:34:37 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/{math,utumno,wealtheow}
00:34:40 <HackEgo> sed: can't read wisdom/wealtheow: No such file or directory
00:34:52 <shachaf> `cwlprits wealhtheow
00:34:56 <HackEgo> b_jonas b_jonas
00:34:58 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/{math,utumno,wealhtheow}
00:35:01 <HackEgo> No output.
00:35:06 <shachaf> `1 rgrep -Pl '\s+$' wisdom
00:35:11 <oerjan> `? wealhtheow
00:35:12 <HackEgo> 1/1:wisdom/fat \ wisdom/ghoul \ wisdom/delve \ wisdom/if \ wisdom/o \ wisdom/rhenium \ wisdom/semmelweis \ wisdom/ᛁᚿ
00:35:13 <HackEgo> Wealhtheow is the barkeep in the tavern where the adventuring party of Beowulf meet at the start of the story.
00:35:22 <shachaf> `1 rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:35:25 <HackEgo> 1/7:wisdom/fat:Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, salt, and pizza. \ wisdom/ghoul:Ghouls are undead that eat BRAINS. So basically, bog standard undead like zombies or wights, but with some fancy back story in the book that nobody reads. \ wisdom/delve:Delve is a static ability that fu
00:35:29 <shachaf> 7?!
00:35:49 <shachaf> one of me, two of me, three of me, four of me, five, six, seven -- sorry, no more of me
00:35:50 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/{fat,ghoul}
00:35:54 <HackEgo> No output.
00:35:58 <shachaf> `spam
00:35:58 <HackEgo> 2/7:nctions while the spell with delve is on the stack. "Delve" means "For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana." The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined. \ wi
00:36:14 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/{delve}
00:36:15 <HackEgo> sed: can't read wisdom/{delve}: No such file or directory
00:36:23 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/delve
00:36:23 <shachaf> `cwlprits delve
00:36:34 <HackEgo> oerjan tswett tswett tswett
00:36:36 <HackEgo> No output.
00:36:53 <oerjan> `spam
00:36:54 <HackEgo> 3/7:sdom/if:If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss: \ wisdom/o:o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to ca
00:36:55 <shachaf> `` rgrep -Pl '\s+$' wisdom | while read f; do echo -n "$f:"; culprits "$f"; done
00:37:01 <oerjan> `spam
00:37:09 <HackEgo> 4/7:ll them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, essentially, and they're out to stop him and conquer their personal problems at the same time. Hopefully not
00:37:17 <HackEgo> wisdom/if:b_jonas \ wisdom/o:b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas oerjan_nope oerjan_nope \ wisdom/rhenium:b_jonas \ wisdom/semmelweis:shachaf \ wisdom/ᛁᚿ:b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas b_jonas
00:37:25 <oerjan> `spam
00:37:27 <HackEgo> 5/7: in that order, so they get their personal problems taken care of before the final battle. And it's a comedy. \ wisdom/rhenium:Rhenium is a precious metal. It can be found nowhere in Earth because the Enemy has used up all of it for forging the One Ring. \ wisdom/semmelweis:Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birth
00:37:36 <shachaf> `? semmelweis
00:37:38 <HackEgo> Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it.
00:37:54 <shachaf> `doag wisdom/semmelweis
00:37:58 <HackEgo> 2016-05-13 <shachaf> ` mv wisdom/semmelwei{,s}
00:38:05 <shachaf> Ah.
00:38:10 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/semmelwei
00:38:14 <HackEgo> shachaf b_jonas
00:38:16 <shachaf> It did seem a bit uncharacteristic.
00:38:31 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/{if,o,rhenium,semmelweis}
00:38:33 <oerjan> `spam
00:38:33 <HackEgo> No output.
00:38:34 <HackEgo> 6/7:giving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. \ wisdom/ᛁᚿ:ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦ
00:38:48 <oerjan> ER
00:38:49 <oerjan> `spam
00:38:50 <HackEgo> 7/7:ᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿgᛅᛋ. ᚴᚮᚦ ᚠᛅᚴᛁ. ᛆᛦᚿᛅ ᛋᛆᚴᚿᚢᛋᛋᛅᛯ
00:38:54 <shachaf> oerjan has come out of retirement
00:39:14 <shachaf> oerjan: by the way, that's why distort used to keep the ' \ ' at the end of the final line
00:39:20 <shachaf> to spot lines that end with spaces
00:39:24 <oerjan> ic
00:39:30 <shachaf> but now you're ruined it the dogs now howl
00:39:33 <shachaf> you've
00:39:52 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
00:40:22 <oerjan> `1 rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:40:24 <HackEgo> 1/2:wisdom/ᛁᚿ:ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅá
00:40:31 <oerjan> `spam
00:40:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:š¿á›á›¦áš¢á›˜ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿgᛅᛋ. ᚴᚮᚦ ᚠᛅᚴᛁ. ᛆᛦᚿᛅ ᛋᛆᚴᚿᚢᛋᛋᛅᛯ
00:40:41 <oerjan> do YOU see a // anywhere
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00:41:14 <oerjan> `1 rgrep -l '\s+$' wisdom
00:41:16 <HackEgo> 1/0:
00:41:18 <oerjan> er
00:41:29 <oerjan> `` rgrep -l '\s+$' wisdom
00:41:30 <HackEgo> No output.
00:41:37 <oerjan> is that wrong
00:41:51 <oerjan> `which rgrep
00:41:52 <HackEgo> ​/usr/bin/rgrep
00:42:04 <oerjan> `` grep -r -l '\s+$' wisdom
00:42:07 <HackEgo> No output.
00:42:31 <oerjan> `` rgrep -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:42:34 <HackEgo> wisdom/ᛁᚿ:ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆ
00:42:46 <oerjan> i don't get it.
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00:43:02 <oerjan> oh wait duh
00:43:11 <oerjan> no
00:43:29 <oerjan> `` rgrep -l -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:43:31 <HackEgo> wisdom/ᛁᚿ
00:43:40 <shachaf> `unidecode ᛆ
00:43:41 <HackEgo> ​[U+16C6 RUNIC LETTER SHORT-TWIG-AR A]
00:44:05 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ \+/ /g;s/ $//' wisdom/ᛁᚿ
00:44:09 <HackEgo> No output.
00:44:13 <oerjan> `` rgrep -l -P '\s+$' wisdom
00:44:14 <HackEgo> No output.
00:44:19 <oerjan> there.
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00:45:12 * oerjan settles back in the lawnchair
00:45:25 <shachaf> lawnchairs are for retirees
00:45:29 <oerjan> correct
00:45:33 <shachaf> you don't qualify anymore
00:45:56 <oerjan> i've told you, norwegian retirees are officially encouraged to keep working hth
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01:37:14 <shachaf> `wisdom
01:37:40 <shachaf> @wn retiree
01:37:41 <lambdabot> *** "retiree" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:37:41 <lambdabot> retiree
01:37:41 <lambdabot> n 1: someone who has retired from active working [syn:
01:37:41 <lambdabot> {retiree}, {retired person}]
01:37:46 <HackEgo> bookwatching//bookwatching is when you conflagrate birdwatching and the books used to identify them in the same object.
01:37:50 <shachaf> @wn retire
01:37:51 <lambdabot> *** "retire" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:37:51 <lambdabot> retire
01:37:51 <lambdabot> v 1: go into retirement; stop performing one's work or withdraw
01:37:51 <lambdabot> from one's position; "He retired at age 68"
01:37:51 <lambdabot> 2: withdraw from active participation; "He retired from chess"
01:37:53 <lambdabot> [26 @more lines]
02:00:01 <oerjan> shachaf: don't expect your logic to work against the norwegian Arbeidslinja tdnh
02:02:06 <shachaf> oerjan: the googletranslation of https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeidslinja says "welfare benefits"
02:02:16 <shachaf> perhaps it's a word translation thing
02:02:51 <oerjan> definitely not one of google translation's most reliable ones.
02:04:16 <oerjan> i have no idea what it's called in other languages, it's a norwegian political term and may not be succinctly translateable.
02:05:53 <oerjan> but briefly, it's about how to structure the welfare system such that it protects those who cannot work, but it's still better to work if you're able to.
02:06:39 <ais523> oerjan: we have that problem in the UK too
02:07:38 <oerjan> hm the swedish term "arbetslinjen" is probably similar. it has a brief english wikipedia article.
02:07:49 <shachaf> oerjan: i think the word "retire" is independent of welfare, though
02:07:50 <oerjan> (most likely norwegians borrowed it)
02:08:44 <oerjan> shachaf: i see you keep stubbornly clinging to logic.
02:09:05 <oerjan> (you might perhaps substitute "pensioners")
02:09:13 <shachaf> oh, well, sure
02:11:24 <oerjan> swedish wikipedia suggests "workfare"
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08:09:58 <tswett> Nnnnnngh. You know what I don't like?
08:10:14 <tswett> Builder classes where every method ends with "return this", and so you do stuff like...
08:10:35 <tswett> Color myColor = new ColorBuilder().setRed(10).setGreen(20).setBlue(30).build();
08:11:16 <myname> why not
08:11:35 <myname> as long as there is also a setRGB i am perfectly fine with it
08:13:41 <tswett> Well, suppose I do this:
08:13:52 <tswett> ColorBuilder myNewColorBuilder = myOldColorBuilder.setRed(10);
08:14:28 <tswett> The signature for "setRed" makes it look like you can do that, and end up with two different ColorBuilders, one where the red has been set to 10 and one where it hasn't.
08:16:09 <tswett> But as a matter of fact, setRed just mutates the existing object and returns it again.
08:18:05 <tswett> I guess what this all comes down to is that you're doing something semantically weird for the sake of convenient syntax.
08:23:07 <myname> just don't do oop
08:26:37 <tswett> That is good* advice and I will* take it, because I hate* OOP and using OOP is completely unnecessary* and unhelpful* for both my job and my hobbies.
08:31:22 <tswett> You know what else I don't like? C-style for-loop syntax.
08:31:28 <tswett> It's a bad idea.
08:31:59 <zzo38> Is the BASIC style of for-loops better?
08:34:37 <myname> who needs for if he has map! :p
08:34:49 <tswett> I'm not familiar with BASIC for-loop syntax.
08:35:01 <tswett> But compare these two syntaxes...
08:35:37 <tswett> 20 timesRepeat: [ do something here ]
08:35:54 <tswett> for(int i = 0; i < 20; i++) { do something here }
08:36:05 <tswett> Which one is easier to read?
08:36:07 <zzo38> FOR X = 10 TO 60 STEP 2 is an example of a BASIC for-loop syntax
08:36:11 <tswett> Hint: it's the first one.
08:36:22 <tswett> Yes, that's definitely better.
08:37:22 <tswett> In this case, I think it'd be something like...
08:37:28 <tswett> FOR I = 1 TO 20
08:37:32 <tswett> Right?
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08:42:54 <zzo38> Yes that could work
08:43:08 <b_jonas> oerjan, shchaf: YOU REMOVED MY PROPER SPACING between sentences! WHY?
08:44:30 <oerjan> b_jonas: wisdom entries are one space hth
08:45:08 <oerjan> ironically, i used to do two spaces until people complained too much
08:45:28 <oerjan> AAAAAA STOCKHOLM SYNDROME
08:47:38 <oerjan> (mind you, i still do in other places)
08:47:40 <b_jonas> And why'd you even remove the space from the end?
08:47:46 <shachaf> oh, come on
08:47:58 <shachaf> spaces at the end are scow
08:48:05 <shachaf> even oerjan can agree about that
08:48:16 <oerjan> b_jonas: actually that was the main thing and the double spaces were just an afterthought.
08:48:45 <shachaf> zzo38: Better than what?
08:49:22 <b_jonas> it doesn't matter which one was first.
08:49:33 <b_jonas> next you'll be editing my British spellings to American or something?
08:49:49 <oerjan> b_jonas: for one thing, learn_append only works properly with that format.
08:50:13 <oerjan> it will add one space, and expects the old one to end in punctuation.
08:50:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: no! learn_append adds one space, so it works properly if there's two space between sentences and one at the end after the last sentence
08:50:48 <b_jonas> it will add another space so there's two between the sentences.
08:50:51 <oerjan> fiendish.
08:51:17 <oerjan> but then it breaks if i don't add a new space.
08:51:19 <shachaf> oerjan: you gotta admit that was a good one hth
08:51:38 <oerjan> shachaf: so good i sort of thought of it myself.
08:51:49 <shachaf> `cat bin/learn_append
08:52:00 <shachaf> `cat le/rn_append
08:52:27 <shachaf> `whackego
08:52:36 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ [[ "$1" = */* ]] || exit \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "$topic" ] && exit 1 \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
08:52:36 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic="$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
08:53:33 <shachaf> Maybe `le/rn_append shouldn't add the space.
08:53:45 <oerjan> shachaf: AAAAAAAAA
08:54:08 <shachaf> `ls le
08:54:12 <HackEgo> rn \ rn_append
08:56:05 <oerjan> ...hm that _would_ be convenient in some cases. but also easy to get wrong.
08:56:43 <shachaf> `ø/rjan s# # #
08:57:08 <shachaf> What if it was an expert mode? You can specify it by using a triple slash in the command's name.
08:58:44 <oerjan> `revert 8868
08:58:44 <HackEgo> abort: unknown revision '8868'!
08:58:54 <oerjan> `revert 8668
08:59:26 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
08:59:28 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa whoa whoa
09:00:45 <oerjan> triple slash might work
09:01:05 <shachaf> (Or, you know, it could just be a different command name.)
09:01:16 <shachaf> What's with the revert?
09:01:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: NO! the extra slash is part of the text to append
09:02:14 <shachaf> b_jonas: Obviously I mean in the command name.
09:02:18 <b_jonas> shachaf: if you want a special mode, make it a slash at the beginning of the filename, or a 256 long path component
09:02:18 <shachaf> le///rn_append
09:02:24 <b_jonas> ah!
09:02:26 <b_jonas> in the command name
09:02:29 <b_jonas> ouch
09:02:34 <shachaf> Just like le/rn has two modes, le/rn and le//rn
09:02:48 <shachaf> The latter lets you le/rn wisdoms containing slashes.
09:02:54 <b_jonas> yeah
09:03:27 <shachaf> I don't know why oerjan reverted to 8668.
09:03:34 <shachaf> There are rules and regulations about wisdoms.
09:03:38 <shachaf> It's all very orderly.
09:03:55 <b_jonas> `? rules
09:03:56 <b_jonas> `? order
09:04:07 <oerjan> shachaf: they're rather unwritten...
09:04:13 <b_jonas> `? laws
09:04:19 <shachaf> Why are you doing that?
09:04:23 <shachaf> You know there won't be any results.
09:04:29 <HackEgo> rules? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
09:04:29 <HackEgo> order? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
09:04:34 <HackEgo> laws? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
09:08:07 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/*fmt*
09:08:12 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*fmt*: No such file or directory
09:08:33 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/*format*
09:08:34 <HackEgo> wisdom/natural transformation \ wisdom/quoteformat
09:08:40 <oerjan> just for the quotes
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09:38:01 <hppavilion[1]> I remember reading a book... a long time ago
09:38:04 <hppavilion[1]> And I want to read it again
09:38:10 <hppavilion[1]> But I don't remember anything about it, really
09:38:16 <hppavilion[1]> Like, I have tiny details
09:38:28 <hppavilion[1]> Enough that someone else who knows about it could name it
09:38:37 <hppavilion[1]> But not enough to recover it on my own
09:39:14 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, I remember a somewhat distinctive name from a chapter
09:39:18 <hppavilion[1]> "The Crucible of Fire"
09:39:24 <hppavilion[1]> It's a book about some weird alternate world
09:39:41 <hppavilion[1]> And it's hinted that it was created by humans as an experiment of sorts; modern technology is seen rarely as magic
09:41:12 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: is it a fiction book? is it a fantasy or sci-fi book? if so, http://scifi.stackexchange.com/ is usually great for identification questions
09:41:24 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Definitely fiction
09:41:38 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: It was... sort of sci fi and fantasy, depending on how you looked at it
09:41:43 <hppavilion[1]> It leaned towards fantasy though
09:41:47 <hppavilion[1]> I might have found it on a reddit
09:42:11 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: if it's sci-fi or fantasy, then scifi.stackexchange.com works well. you don't have to know which of the two it is.
09:42:31 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: OK, thank you
09:42:32 <b_jonas> otherwise, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities may work, it's worked for me at least once
09:43:13 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: make sure you read instructions at http://scifi.stackexchange.com/tags/story-identification/info or http://meta.scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/9335/how-to-ask-a-good-story-id-question
09:45:57 <hppavilion[1]> I think I found it!
09:46:50 <hppavilion[1]> The Relic Master, it appears it is
09:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe
09:47:36 <hppavilion[1]> Yep, Relic Master series by Catherine Fisher
09:47:51 * hppavilion[1] raises his hand for a high five to anyone who so desires
09:48:34 <hppavilion[1]> Now to find somewhere I can get it from...
09:48:55 <hppavilion[1]> (I should probably check my bookshelf first, but I have a feeling I read it on a kindle)
09:50:29 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh! While looking for it I found the Leven Thumps series
09:51:42 <b_jonas> look in your kindle or your hard disk too then
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13:45:25 <int-e> `wisdom
13:45:37 <int-e> > 6*7
13:45:39 <lambdabot> 42
13:45:56 <HackEgo> ais523//Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good.
13:46:24 <int-e> `wisdom
13:46:34 <HackEgo> mycology//mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/
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17:13:02 <int-e> `unidecode 〚〚
17:13:25 <HackEgo> ​[U+301A LEFT WHITE SQUARE BRACKET] [U+301A LEFT WHITE SQUARE BRACKET]
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18:13:52 <alercah> lolwut
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21:01:39 <zzo38> Vim programs F1 as help and other functions keys do nothing, which isn't very useful. I would want to reprogram it so that perhaps F1 is a different function, and so that F4 will suppress the alternate buffer until a key is pushed, so that shell output can be seen (similar to the function of F4 in QBASIC).
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21:26:08 <zzo38> Do you think this is good so far? http://sprunge.us/MRce (Note some of the functions listed are not yet fully implemented, but are either partially implemented or are called by functions that are implemented)
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23:09:14 <hppavilion[2]> And the lord thus spake: "Let there be a motherfucking hexagon on motherfucking saturn, and let it confuse the humans forevermore"
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23:27:21 <hppavilion[2]> They should make a movie called "The Abyss"
23:27:28 <hppavilion[2]> If you gaze long into it, it gazes back
23:29:30 <oerjan> they already did
23:30:48 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Oh?
23:31:04 <hppavilion[2]> Hm, maybe I should change my surname to "The Abyss" and become a doctor
23:31:09 <hppavilion[2]> "The Abyss will gaze into you now"
23:33:12 <oerjan> `? abyss
23:33:40 <HackEgo> abyss? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:34:27 <oerjan> `le/rn abyss/In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.
23:34:33 <HackEgo> Learned «abyss»
23:37:48 <shachaf> oerjan: what happened to starting a wisdom entry with the key
23:38:13 <oerjan> i don't think that really works for soviet russia jokes hth
23:38:22 <shachaf> also what happens when the abyss stares into you and then you don't stare back
23:38:28 <shachaf> i,i
23:38:30 <shachaf> @google what's expected of us
23:38:32 <lambdabot> http://www.nature.com/articles/436150a
23:38:32 <lambdabot> Title: What's expected of us : Article : Nature
23:40:11 <oerjan> shachaf: then you get sent to siberia for gazing lessons hth
23:41:23 <oerjan> hm of course the original is in german, so cannot expect a definite english version
23:43:13 <shachaf> the german version is probably backwards
23:43:36 <shachaf> anyway that story i linked to is good
23:43:42 <oerjan> i've seen it before
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23:51:42 <shachaf> copumpkin: hopumpkin
2016-07-02
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00:04:24 <shachaf> oerjan: i always imagine you yodeling that hth
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00:05:51 <boily> hallørjen.
00:06:06 <boily> hellochaftiddlywhoo
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00:07:14 <boily> hppavellon[2].
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00:08:15 <oerjan> alas, poor underline
00:13:34 <quintopia> helloily
00:13:42 <oerjan> <zzo38> Vim programs F1 as help and other functions keys do nothing [...] <-- F1 opens help in gvim on windows, at least
00:14:01 <oerjan> (that's the only one i checked)
00:14:23 <oerjan> oh, works in my linux terminal too
00:14:38 <oerjan> oh wait
00:14:44 <oerjan> sorry, misparsed your sentence
00:15:35 <boily> quinthellopia
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00:50:35 <izabera> why does socketpair need to be a syscall?
00:57:21 <quintopia> because
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01:00:43 <izabera> oh
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01:20:05 <Etaoin> hellaoin
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02:15:38 <\oren\> I recently switched to using ctrl-ins, shift-ins for copy and paste. this has the advantage of working on windows, linux and mac the same way
02:16:21 <shachaf> I don't have an Ins key.
02:16:53 <\oren\> o_O; wha?
02:17:13 <\oren\> what computer doesn't have insert?
02:18:49 <shachaf> My work computer, a MacBook Pro.
02:19:22 <shachaf> Somehow it still has a caps lock key, though.
02:19:42 <shachaf> Apple got rid of the floppy drive and of the optical drive. But they didn't get rid of caps lock. Absurd.
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02:20:49 <\oren\> shachaf: I use a macbook at work, but I have an external keyboard
02:21:40 <\oren\> the macbook's keyboard is also missing a numpad, which i consider essential
02:21:54 <shachaf> I consider it inessential.
02:22:06 <shachaf> I learned hjklyubn so now I can play NetHack without a number pad.
02:22:32 <\oren\> I use the numpad to type numbers quickly
02:22:43 <shachaf> I use the numrow to type numbers quickly.
02:23:44 <quintopia> i have given up having a numpad as well
02:23:58 <shachaf> I never wanted it in the first place.
02:24:14 <quintopia> not only are numpadless keyboards more compact, they are less expensive!
02:24:16 <shachaf> Typing numbers is for the birds.
02:24:38 <quintopia> i have yet to adopt a bird to type numbers for me, I regret to admit
02:24:57 <shachaf> The Bird is Cruel!
02:25:03 <shachaf> (Or so `hoag informs me.)
02:25:28 <quintopia> (i have purchased keyboards with numpads before, but it was only coincidence--it was never a factor in my decision)
02:27:07 <\oren\> only thing I don't like about this keyboard (on my Thinkpad) is the lack of a print screen key
02:28:32 <shachaf> I'm OK with a pixel screen. Printers are outdated.
02:28:39 <\oren\> print screen is essential for pics or it didn't happen
02:29:59 <shachaf> On my work computer, a MacBook Pro, I can press Cmd-Shift-3 to make a picture of the screen, or Cmd-Shift-4 to make a picture of a window or rectangle.
02:30:22 <shachaf> Very convenient.
02:30:32 <tswett> I think my laptop has all the same keys that a full keyboard has, except for two.
02:30:41 <tswett> Plus it has one key that a full keyboard doesn't have.
02:30:44 <shachaf> On my personal computer, I have a Print Screen key. But I usually run a command line program.
02:30:53 <tswett> Those keys are insert and scroll lock.
02:31:36 <tswett> And "fn" is the extra one.
02:32:23 * oerjan has all those, and a numpad
02:32:47 <tswett> oerjan: do you have a laptop that does have insert and scroll lock keys?
02:33:16 <oerjan> well there's a marking for scr lk on the num lk key
02:33:31 <oerjan> and there's insert on the numpad
02:33:42 <tswett> So no, it doesn't have a scroll lock key.
02:34:04 <oerjan> my previous laptop didn't have a separate numpad, although it had a setting to put a numpad in the middle of the ordinary keys
02:34:10 <oerjan> OKAY
02:34:23 <shachaf> oerjan: tswett sure showed you
02:34:32 <tswett> I'm talking about dedicated keys. Mine has decidated keys for all but two of the standard keys.
02:34:33 <oerjan> and the insert key is shared with 0
02:34:52 <tswett> oerjan: so far, it sounds like you have the same laptop keyboard that I have.
02:35:01 <oerjan> is it an asus
02:35:08 <tswett> Yes.
02:35:18 <shachaf> which one
02:35:48 <tswett> Do the media buttons on your F keys go sleep, airplane, keyboard dim, keyboard bright, screen dim, screen bright, screen off, projector, touchpad disable, mute, quiet, loud?
02:37:11 <oerjan> i don't have keyboard lights, but otherwise yes
02:37:21 <oerjan> (i think)
02:38:04 <oerjan> not sure about airplane, it's some kind of radiating antenna symbol
02:38:49 <tswett> Probably the same thing.
02:38:54 <tswett> Does your F2 key have a little light in it?
02:38:56 <oerjan> Fn + F3 seems to open up some email program.
02:39:25 <oerjan> oh it's airplane indeed. no light though.
02:39:32 <shachaf> `wisdom
02:39:37 <tswett> I really oughta get my media keys working.
02:39:52 <oerjan> F3 and F4 have no media symbols
02:39:53 <tswett> I'm tired of only being able to change my backlight brightness by using the xbacklight command.
02:40:03 <HackEgo> døsthiswork//no
02:40:22 <shachaf> clever
02:40:31 <shachaf> `cwlprits døsthiswork
02:40:43 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott olsner Bike FreeFull shachaf
02:40:48 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
02:40:58 <shachaf> `hog wisdom/døsthiswork
02:41:06 <HackEgo> ​<oerjan> revert \ <olsner> cp wisdom/doesthiswork wisdom/d\xc3\xb8sthiswork \ <Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <shachaf> echo yes > wisdom/d\xc3\xb8sthiswork
02:41:37 <shachaf> `wisdom
02:41:39 <HackEgo> pico//pico is the useless twin of nano.
02:43:04 <tswett> Maybe I should upgrade to 16.4.
02:43:35 <shachaf> pico isn't cool. You know what's cool? nano.
02:44:27 <oerjan> when my laptop was in for repairs, i got a replacement with keyboard lights. i found it irritating, especially since it wouldn't remember that i wanted them off.
02:45:13 <oerjan> (well, when i turned the laptop on.)
02:45:41 <oerjan> is there an atto
02:45:57 <tswett> Just paint over all the letters with black paint.
02:46:11 <tswett> Use one of those tiny brushes.
02:46:24 <oerjan> AAAAAAAA
02:46:44 <tswett> What's the codename for 16.4, anyway?
02:46:58 <oerjan> tswett: the lights came through the borders of the keys, not the letters, iirc.
02:47:17 <tswett> Just install rubber seals around all the keys.
02:47:23 <oerjan> i may misremember whether the letters also shined
02:47:48 <oerjan> anyway, that laptop is long since back in the shop.
02:48:28 <tswett> It'd be kind of difficult to use a backlit keyboard where the letters don't shine.
02:48:35 <oerjan> . o O ( Atrocious Allosaurus )
02:48:58 <oerjan> MAYBE
02:48:58 <tswett> Isn't this one X?
02:49:02 <tswett> Also, what was the animal for U?
02:49:12 <oerjan> tswett: i'm just joking
02:49:20 <tswett> Nobody can name an animal starting with U.
02:49:42 <oerjan> huh
02:49:52 <oerjan> Undulating Utahraptor
02:50:24 <tswett> Oh wow, my Ubuntu distro has been EOL since February.
02:50:26 <tswett> Why wasn't I notified?
02:50:40 <oerjan> the notifications were also EOLed hth
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02:51:07 <tswett> os
02:51:50 <oerjan> hm it is indeed hard to think of a modern animal starting with U.
02:52:15 <\oren\> Usagi
02:52:22 <oerjan> in english, \oren\
02:52:37 <oerjan> although i also thought of that one
02:52:45 <\oren\> Uman
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02:53:25 <oerjan> Ulv
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02:53:54 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: you've been incremented!
02:53:58 <oerjan> there's got to be some obscure antelope
02:54:48 <\oren\> Uakari
02:54:55 <tswett> Yeah, maybe they've got one on the coat of arms of some country starting with U.
02:55:07 <\oren\> it's a kind of monkey
02:55:09 <tswett> Like, maybe it's an animal where the name of the animal just begins with the name of that country.
02:55:49 <\oren\> Ukrainian swamp tiger
02:56:06 <tswett> That doesn't sound like an obscure antelope.
02:56:33 <oerjan> stupid wikipedia's mammal list goes by genus in latin
02:57:04 <shachaf> oerjan: "genus" in latin is "genus" hth
02:57:25 * oerjan lightly swats shachaf -----###
02:57:42 <tswett> No, "genus" in Latin is "genus_(taxinomia)" hth.
02:57:47 <tswett> Proof: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_%28taxinomia%29
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02:57:58 <tswett> Sorry, it's "genus_%28taxinomia%29".
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03:00:32 <tswett> Man, I really miss the days when Ubuntu's theme color was brown instead of purple.
03:01:42 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
03:04:56 <tswett> Oh right, I was gonna ponder this funny little language of mine.
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03:11:33 <alercah> `unicode U+01b9
03:11:37 <HackEgo> ​ƹ
03:12:09 <tswett> `unidecode ƹ
03:12:14 <HackEgo> ​[U+01B9 LATIN SMALL LETTER EZH REVERSED]
03:13:08 <tswett> This is the language that's tentatively named Tokiber.
03:13:21 <tswett> Not to be confused with the language that's tentatively named Quendle.
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03:14:45 <\oren\> tswett: they switched to purple?
03:15:27 <tswett> \oren\: yeah, like nearly ten years ago.
03:17:32 <\oren\> their website is still orange
03:19:03 <\oren\> hmm from screenshots of 16.04 I can see there's a lot more purple now, but still some orang
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03:19:58 <tswett> Things I have defined in Tokiber: categories; categories with a terminal object; finite product categories; finite limit categories; monoids; the forgetful functor from monoids to categories; groups; abelian groups; rings with identity; "natural number algebras".
03:20:51 <\oren\> what about strings?
03:21:24 <\oren\> oh, wait, every string is a natural number, never mind
03:21:34 <shachaf> Strings aren't natural numbers.
03:21:57 <\oren\> they could be represented by them?
03:22:14 <shachaf> Of course.
03:22:20 <\oren\> the string "\00" is 2. the string
03:22:31 <\oren\> "\0\0" is 2
03:22:40 <\oren\> h...
03:23:09 <tswett> A natural number algebra consists of a sort N, a point "zero" in N, and a function "succ" from N to N.
03:23:17 <\oren\> screw it, take the bitstream, add a 1 at the end and call that a number
03:24:27 <\oren\> tswett: a sort like quicksort or mergesort?
03:24:32 <tswett> Nah, use bijective base 1112064.
03:24:41 <tswett> "A sort" means "a set or whatever".
03:24:41 <shachaf> What's a point? An arrow from a terminal object?
03:25:16 <shachaf> You should do the CDOs in http://chu.stanford.edu/PrattSRMK2016.pdf
03:25:23 <\oren\> oh, bijective base. that is way better.
03:25:23 <shachaf> You have points and copoints. It's TG.
03:25:33 <tswett> An arrow from a terminal object, yes.
03:26:04 <shachaf> And adjunctions are just a special case of associativity.
03:26:16 <tswett> So yeah, really "a sort" means "an object in the ambient category-with-a-terminal-object".
03:26:37 <shachaf> an object in the ambivalent category
03:27:58 <tswett> "Function", of course, means "arrow".
03:28:15 <tswett> I want to define the squaring function on the integers.
03:28:32 <\oren\> man, I'm still entirely ignorant of the difference between a category and a set.
03:29:17 <shachaf> There isn't much similarity.
03:29:40 <tswett> A category is a directed graph equipped with a composition operator which is associative and has identities.
03:29:50 <tswett> A set isn't.
03:30:23 <\oren\> ok but what does it mean for something to be "in the category C"
03:30:28 <shachaf> Pft. A category is a generalized monoid.
03:30:52 <\oren\> does that mean it's one of the points on the graph?
03:31:00 <shachaf> Do you actually want an answer for what a category is?
03:31:26 <tswett> \oren\: well, that depends on what the thing is. The vertices of a category are called objects, so that tells you what an "object in the category C" is.
03:32:06 <tswett> The edges are called arrows or morphisms (the two words are exact synonyms).
03:33:10 <\oren\> ok that makes a lot more sense than the wikipedia article
03:33:26 <tswett> The "usual case" is for the objects to be algebraic structures and for the arrows to be homomorphisms between them.
03:33:35 <tswett> That's what the "category of groups" is, for example.
03:34:18 <shachaf> I think thinking of a category as a graph is a bit misleading if you want good intuition.
03:34:45 <\oren\> can I think of it as a set of sets and functions between sets?
03:35:09 <\oren\> that's how i was thinking of it
03:35:09 <shachaf> The important part of a category is the arrows.
03:35:11 <tswett> You can certainly think of it as being *like* a set of sets and functions between sets.
03:35:14 <shachaf> The objects are almost irrelevant.
03:35:28 <shachaf> The arrows aren't functions (except in some special cases).
03:35:32 <tswett> In most cases, the objects are "kind of like sets" and the arrows are "kind of like functions".
03:38:02 <\oren\> shachaf: in what ways can they fail to be functions?
03:38:29 <shachaf> Are the elements of a group functions?
03:39:30 <shachaf> Well, that's maybe a bad question because of Cayley's theorem.
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03:42:44 <\oren\> shachaf: I was thinking more of what they do to the elements of the objects
03:43:37 <oerjan> \oren\: categories that are "sets and functions between sets" are an important special case, known as _concrete_ categories.
03:44:20 <shachaf> \oren\: I'd give you an example, but maybe first you should have the definition of a category.
03:44:56 <\oren\> seems like first I need the definition of an object?
03:45:14 <oerjan> there isn't one
03:45:22 <oerjan> an object can be literally _anything_
03:45:30 <oerjan> dependent on the category
03:45:56 <shachaf> First you need the definition of an arrow.
03:46:06 <shachaf> Which can also be literally anything.
03:46:17 <shachaf> OK, well, do you know what a monoid is?
03:46:31 <\oren\> something from Haskell?
03:46:47 <\oren\> no wait that's "monad"
03:47:05 <shachaf> Do you know what a group is?
03:47:11 <\oren\> yes
03:47:23 <shachaf> A monoid is like a group, except elements don't necessarily have inverses.
03:47:54 <\oren\> ok.
03:47:59 <shachaf> So you have multiplication, and you have an identity element 1, such that a(bc) = (ab)c, a1 = a, 1a = a
03:48:33 <shachaf> Sounds good?
03:48:44 <\oren\> yup. with you so far.
03:49:08 <shachaf> A good example of a monoid is strings over some alphabet. Multiplication is concatenation, and 1 is the empty string.
03:49:53 <shachaf> Another example of a monoid is NxN matrices, with the identity matrix and matrix multiplication.
03:50:35 <shachaf> But what you'd want to do is talk about the monoid of all matrices, not just NxN matrices.
03:50:48 <shachaf> Multiplication is still associative, and you still have identity matrices. Right?
03:51:00 <\oren\> yeah.
03:51:13 <shachaf> The trouble is that you can't multiply two arbitrary matrices. The sizes have to match.
03:51:36 <shachaf> In particular, you can multiply and IxJ matrix with a JxK matrix, to get an IxK matrix.
03:52:01 <shachaf> And you don't just have one identity, you have one for each size. So you have a 5x5 identity matrix and so on.
03:52:10 <\oren\> right
03:52:45 <shachaf> The laws are still the same. a(bc) = (ab)c, id_N . a = a, a . id_M = a
03:52:51 <shachaf> If a is an NxM matrix.
03:53:18 <shachaf> (Where . is multiplication.)
03:53:59 <shachaf> So if you generalize that, that's what a category is.
03:54:23 <\oren\> where the matrices are the arrows?
03:54:26 <shachaf> Yes.
03:54:28 <shachaf> A category has a bunch of things, called arrows, that you can multiply together.
03:54:37 <shachaf> But you can't multiply any two things together.
03:54:59 <\oren\> only if one points to the vertex where another begins.
03:55:14 <shachaf> So you have a bunch of things, called objects. Each arrow has a "domain" object and a "codomain" object (these correspond to the dimensions of the matrix).
03:55:48 <shachaf> You generally write f : A -> B to mean that f is an arrow with domain A and codomain B.
03:57:14 <shachaf> You have an operation ., called composition or multiplication, where f . g is defined the codomain of g is equal to the domain of f.
03:57:42 <shachaf> . is associative
03:58:14 <shachaf> And for every object A, you have a special arrow 1_A : A -> A, such that for any f : A -> B, f . 1_A = f, and for any g : C -> A, 1_A . g = g
04:00:21 <shachaf> Does that make sense?
04:00:26 <\oren\> yes
04:00:50 <shachaf> OK. It's pretty simple.
04:01:06 <shachaf> Now you can talk about other categories. A popular one is one where the arrows are functions.
04:01:35 <shachaf> The objects are sets. You can see that it all works out.
04:06:18 <\oren\> that helps a lot, to have an example other than the category(s) of functions and sets
04:06:47 <shachaf> There are lots of other examples.
04:07:59 <shachaf> You can pretty easily see that a monoid is a category with one object. Yes?
04:08:09 <shachaf> (Or can be represented that way, at least.)
04:08:19 <\oren\> yes
04:08:45 <shachaf> And it doesn't matter what the object is. For example, it could be a cup of tea.
04:09:32 <shachaf> You can represent a set as a category, where each object represents an element, and there are only identity arrows.
04:09:37 <shachaf> (That's called a "discrete category".)
04:11:19 <shachaf> You can also represent a preorder as a category. You do that by saying that, for any pair of objects (A,B), there's at most one arrow : A -> B, iff A <= B.
04:12:03 <shachaf> Identity arrows correspond to reflexivity, and arrow composition corresponds to transitivity.
04:12:26 <\oren\> i see, the composition of arrows would only lead to true <= statements...
04:12:39 <shachaf> Right.
04:12:50 <shachaf> These are kind of boring categories because they're extreme.
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04:13:43 <\oren\> they should be on the wiki page so that people can figure out that a category isn't just what i thought it was.
04:13:58 <shachaf> A very popular sort of category is one where the arrows are homomorphisms of some structure.
04:14:11 <shachaf> For example, group homomorphisms, or continuous functions, or linear maps.
04:14:35 <shachaf> The objects would be groups, or topological spaces, or vector spaces, respectively.
04:14:57 <shachaf> (The category of finite-dimensional vector spaces and linear maps is very similar to the one with matrices that we started with.)
04:15:36 <shachaf> Sounds good?
04:15:58 <\oren\> yeah all of those sound like they should work
04:16:26 <shachaf> People almost always define homomorphisms such that they're associative and have identities.
04:16:33 <shachaf> The next question is why would you care about categories?
04:17:04 <shachaf> And in a way this whole conversation is backwards, because that question is the right place to start.
04:19:04 <shachaf> Probably the right approach is to start with naturality, like what's-his-name did.
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04:55:55 <hppavilion[2]> What're some of the best spacey simulations?
04:56:23 -!- hppavilion[2] has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidarity matrices, esoteric programming language design, multichannel bot abuse (always safe, sane and consensual), and font forging (dangerous and potentially illegal) | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
05:00:37 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: KSP is my favorite, but there's also space engine
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05:00:53 <hppavilion[2]> \oren\: I mean videos xD
05:01:08 <hppavilion[2]> \oren\: Simulations of weird things happening in space
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05:50:28 <tswett> Uhhh, right. I wanted to define the squaring function on the integers.
05:50:52 <tswett> Which probably means I should define the integers.
05:52:39 <tswett> So far, I don't have a way to do that.
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06:02:09 <tswett> Like, I have a way to define finite algebras.
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06:09:58 <tswett> So I've defined sets, and I've defined rings with identity.
06:10:08 <tswett> Here's what the definition of a set currently looks like:
06:10:15 <tswett> theory Set : CATEGORY { sort Element; }
06:10:38 <tswett> Paraphrased in English:
06:10:41 <tswett> "A set consists of a set."
06:11:38 <tswett> You can define the empty set, too. It looks something like this:
06:11:53 <tswett> algebra EmptySet : Set { Element := 0; }
06:12:40 <tswett> The definition of a ring with identity starts out like this:
06:12:55 <tswett> theory RingWithIdent extends Set : FPRODCAT {
06:13:50 <tswett> The "extends" keyword automatically defines a forgetful functor RingWithIdent -> Set.
06:16:45 <tswett> So theoretically, you ought to just be able to grab the left adjoint to that functor, giving you the free functor Set -> RingWithIdent.
06:17:06 <tswett> And then apply that to EmptySet, and boom, you get the free ring-with-identity on the empty set—in other words, the integers.
06:17:57 <tswett> That's all well and good. In fact, let me simply declare that that is now a feature of the language.
06:18:03 <tswett> How are we gonna define functions on the integers, now?
06:20:42 <tswett> Come to think of it, I haven't defined any way of defining homomorphisms at all.
06:39:36 <tswett> All right, I suppose theoretically I ought to just be able to say this:
06:40:53 <tswett> homomorphism square : forget Integer as Set -> forget Integer as Set { all x := mult x x }
06:41:43 <tswett> Good ol' "forget Integer as Set". One of my favorite algebras.
06:43:56 <tswett> Whoops, I forgot the semicolon.
06:45:18 <tswett> And I guess logically, I ought to be able to define the integers like this:
06:45:34 <tswett> define algebra Integer : RingWithIdent := free EmptySet as RingWithIdent;
06:46:06 <tswett> Likewise, I ought to be able to define the natural numbers (in one of their incarnations) like this:
06:46:21 <tswett> define algebra PeanoNatural : NatNumAlg := free EmptySet as NatNumAlg;
06:47:02 <tswett> Now ideally, one might like to be able to define the "inclusion" function from PeanoNatural to Integer.
06:47:15 <tswett> Rather, from "forget PeanoNatural as Set" to "forget Integer as Set".
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08:49:22 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cube8.html ... that was tricky to reassemble :)
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09:16:03 <\oren\> corrolary to the sapir-whorf hypothesis: learning a new language increases the range of thoughts you can think.
09:17:19 <shachaf> Or perhaps decreases it.
09:17:56 <shachaf> tswett: 2 is sometimes called I, the interval category
09:18:09 <shachaf> In some ways it behaves like the closed interval [0,1]
09:18:23 <shachaf> In this perspective a natural transformation is like a homotopy of functors.
09:18:40 <tswett> Yup.
09:19:46 <tswett> You can define the interval category in Tokiber easily enough...
09:20:07 <tswett> theory Interval : CATEGORY { sort Domain; sort Codomain; arrow : Domain -> Codomain; }
09:20:34 <shachaf> Can you define hTop?
09:21:29 <tswett> The category whose objects are topological spaces and whose arrows are homotopy classes of continuous maps?
09:21:52 <tswett> Not as a theory, no.
09:22:06 <tswett> You can't define a theory that has uncountably many objects.
09:22:10 <shachaf> What!
09:22:32 <shachaf> Not even uncountably many?
09:22:35 <tswett> I mean, you "could" do that, but only by writing an uncountable amount of code.
09:23:15 <tswett> For the doctrine CATEGORY, you can't even define a theory that has infinitely many objects.
09:25:09 <tswett> A theory is a finite presentation of a category (or a category-with-a-terminal-object or a finite product category or a finite limit category). And every finitely presented category-with-a-cherry-on-top has only countably many objects.
09:28:15 <shachaf> But what about infinitary theories?
09:28:22 <shachaf> `? frame
09:28:53 <HackEgo> A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
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09:30:24 <tswett> Every definition represents a finite mathematical object.
09:30:27 <shachaf> «For infinitary theories, such as that of frames, there is a hitch. Step 2 of Theorem 4.3.6 tells us to form the set of all possible expressions using the generators and the operators, and at this stage the general theory doesn't use the algebraic laws to make any identifications between expressions (this comes in Step 4). This is fine for the finitary algebraic theories. However, for frames, we can mak
09:30:33 <shachaf> e new expressions by forming joins of ...
09:30:35 <shachaf> ... arbitrary sets of older expressions, and this can't be done in set theory. Technically, the "set" of all possible expressions would be a proper class: it is too big to be a valid set. This is a genuine problem. There are infinitary theories (such as that of complete Boolean algebras - see Johnstone [82]) where this is insuperable and presentations simply don't present algebras. For frames, fortunatel
09:30:41 <shachaf> y, presentations do present, but we ...
09:30:44 <shachaf> ... have to argue slightly carefully to show this.»
09:30:46 <shachaf> I don't even remember any of this
09:30:48 <shachaf> Look
09:30:57 <tswett> You can define a finite ring. You can't define an infinite ring, but you can define a finite presentation of a ring.
09:32:15 <tswett> And that's a lot like being able to define any finitely presented ring.
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10:19:20 <izabera> does anyone know why all my compilers on linux create elf files where EI_OSABI is always 0 (which is sysv) instead of 3 (which is linux)?
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10:34:21 <izabera> `` cp /bin/ls .; file ls
10:34:37 <HackEgo> ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x55f1e005df252708d4c456dcc2c7dccea1006553, stripped
10:34:43 <izabera> `` dd bs=1 seek=7 conv=notrunc count=1 of=ls status=none <<< $'\3'; file ls
10:34:45 <HackEgo> dd: invalid status flag: `none' \ Try `dd --help' for more information. \ ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x55f1e005df252708d4c456dcc2c7dccea1006553, stripped
10:34:54 <izabera> `` dd bs=1 seek=7 conv=notrunc count=1 of=ls 2>/dev/null <<< $'\3'; file ls
10:34:58 <HackEgo> ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x55f1e005df252708d4c456dcc2c7dccea1006553, stripped
10:35:13 <izabera> `` ./ls -l ls
10:35:15 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 114032 Jul 2 09:34 ls
10:36:52 <izabera> all the elf files in my system are (SYSV) instead of (GNU/Linux)
10:52:44 <int-e> Haha. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-glibc/2001-05/msg00169.html ... anyway, "If the object file does not use any extensions, it is recommended that this byte be set to 0."
10:53:00 <int-e> (the latter quote is from https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/elf/gabi4+/ch4.eheader.html )
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12:17:22 <hppavilion[2]> The John Byrne modern-age Superman has canon regarding his facial hair
12:17:35 <hppavilion[2]> It grows normally, and he has to heat vision a reflective surface to zap it off
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12:44:47 <izabera> thanks for the link int-e
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13:14:11 <hppavilion[2]> The Imperinatus! (Starring Harrison Fnord)
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16:15:14 <Eatonion> hello
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17:14:49 <hppavilion[2]> The Y Chromosome: The human condition's expansion pack
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17:49:00 <hppavilion[2]> Trump 0 AA!
17:49:06 <hppavilion[2]> (AA = After Apocalypse)
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18:27:02 <izabera> is nobody going to talk about lwan? https://lwan.ws/
18:27:28 <izabera> people are talking about it right now literally in every other channel on freenode
18:31:26 <myname> so it's like nginx as a library?
18:32:13 <alercah> none of the channels I'm in are talking about it
18:32:21 <myname> dito
18:32:43 <myname> also, i would recommend to stay as far away from web development as possible
18:32:49 <alercah> ^
18:32:53 <alercah> nothing good can come of it
18:32:59 <alercah> try googling lolphp
18:33:12 <myname> i did php
18:33:57 <alercah> is there a channel mode we can set to quarantine you?
18:34:14 <izabera> /set mode -php
18:39:31 <lifthrasiir> any server solution beyond 10,000 RPS is only useful when you are dealing with more than 10,000,000 RPS
18:39:40 <lifthrasiir> not worth trying otherwise
18:40:09 <lifthrasiir> (generally they come with severe trade-offs)
18:56:04 <tswett> Let's talk about toonemes!
18:56:34 <tswett> In cartooning, a tooneme is a component of a drawing which comprises the smallest cartonically meaningful unit.
18:57:08 <tswett> Usually, one single line.
18:59:26 <tswett> One eyebrow, one eyelid, one contour mark of whatever kind.
19:00:34 <tswett> http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1209 – look at all those toonemes!
19:02:19 <tswett> There are some interesting toonemes in between the eyebrows in panel 6. Three of them.
19:03:45 <tswett> "Angry forehead wrinkles", I suppose.
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20:34:47 <moon_> Moo
20:47:46 <\oren\> baaa
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21:26:21 <quintopia> hey
21:26:28 <ais523> hi
21:28:59 <quintopia> what do you do these days
21:30:03 <ais523> research compiler development, for about a month
21:30:16 <ais523> but I'm looking for a new job, this one's a fixed-term contract that expires soon
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21:32:06 <quintopia> find me one while you're at it ;P
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22:18:04 <zzo38> In this Dungeons&Dragons game story is one ogre is always cheating at dice (the dice are loaded so one always comes up 5 and the other one always comes up 2). We hear some ogre talking about one of them cheating at dice and one of them doubts it. To reverse the cheating, rub out the four corner dots of the five. Now they are certain to always lose at dice.
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2016-07-03
00:07:15 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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00:18:00 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[2]> It grows normally, and he has to heat vision a reflective surface to zap it off <-- i vaguely recall at some point seeing/reading that he used a reflective piece from the spaceship that brought him to Earth, presumably because Earth materials couldn't take it...
00:18:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:18:38 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] Don't remember which age superman it was, though.
00:18:38 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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00:25:42 <oerjan> note to self (after checking wiktionary): do _not_ porthello moon in a particular obvious way.
00:26:28 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...I can't find that particular way
00:26:37 <oerjan> (helloon is also a bit dubious, come to think of it)
00:26:39 <hppavilion[1]> It's not helloon and it's not melloon
00:26:45 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: hoon hth
00:26:47 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-houd
00:26:47 <lambdabot> oerjan said 8m 47s ago: <hppavilion[2]> It grows normally, and he has to heat vision a reflective surface to zap it off <-- i vaguely recall at some point seeing/reading that he used a reflective piece from the spaceship that brought him to Earth, presumably because Earth materials couldn't take it...
00:26:47 <lambdabot> oerjan said 8m 9s ago: Don't remember which age superman it was, though.
00:26:49 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
00:27:36 <oerjan> hippavilion[1] btw, that one's very wholesome.
00:28:13 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well if we use the dated meaning, then it becomes potentially complimentary
00:28:24 <hppavilion[1]> Probably because english doesn't use square brackets in words
00:28:54 <oerjan> i... don't think so.
00:29:04 <oerjan> pimp is not a compliment hth
00:29:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It is in some circles
00:29:32 <hppavilion[1]> Or, at least, it's a positive-connotation verb
00:29:43 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. "Pimp My Ride"
00:30:03 <oerjan> the noun is not hth
00:30:30 <hppavilion[1]> And the origin of "pimp" is "Perhaps from Middle French pimpant ‎(“smart, sparkish”)."
00:30:42 <oerjan> i suppose Etymology 4 is fine.
00:30:53 <hppavilion[1]> "(African American Vernacular slang) A man who can easily attract women."
00:31:13 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose that one is good? Assuming that we don't consider that to be a douchebaggy trait to emphasize?
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00:31:29 <oerjan> i think only African Americans can safely use that slang hth
00:31:56 <hppavilion[1]> True
00:31:58 <hppavilion[1]> But still
00:32:30 <hppavilion[1]> (This is one of the few contexts where "African American" is appropriate- when referring specifically to people of African descent living in the US)
00:32:32 <oerjan> sounds like one of those things which could get you an SJW internet lynching
00:32:41 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, probably
00:32:56 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, most things can
00:33:03 <hppavilion[1]> src: Dictionarygate
00:33:27 <oerjan> i probably missed that one.
00:33:57 <oerjan> i guess i've missed most of them, by the simple expediment of not reading such fora.
00:34:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Some of the example sentences in OED referenced women, and others attributed jobs like "doctor" to men
00:34:10 <oerjan> exception, the aaronson one.
00:34:38 <hppavilion[1]> ("radical" had the example "A radical feminist" and most traditionally-male jobs used masculine pronouns)
00:34:41 <oerjan> well the OED is like ancient
00:35:05 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, their choices in example sentences may not be optimal, but it's not really important enough to get angry about
00:35:48 <oerjan> offensingularity
00:35:50 <hppavilion[1]> It's like if the constitution used "negro" to refer to blacks- it's not exactly what we would prefer, but it'd be too much trouble to change it for too little gain
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00:36:35 <oerjan> "if"? i thought it did so? although in an obsolete part
00:36:41 <oerjan> (the US one)
00:37:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "pimp" is also five in Cumbrian and Welsh sheep counting
00:37:07 <hppavilion[1]> Well, it might
00:37:13 <hppavilion[1]> I didn't check for the purposes of the analogy
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00:37:50 <oerjan> oh it didn't.
00:37:57 <oerjan> it mentions Indians.
00:38:12 <oerjan> well, in the 3/5 paragraph i remembered.
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00:38:25 <oerjan> and there's probably no reason to mention it otherwise.
00:38:52 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, probablt
00:38:54 <hppavilion[1]> *probably
00:39:05 <hppavilion[1]> Well, maybe in one of the ammendments regarding voting?
00:40:00 <hppavilion[1]> But then again, they wouldn't really have reason to reference any one race in particular
00:41:35 <oerjan> neither the 13th or the 14th does, it seems.
00:42:33 <oerjan> i noticed a mentioned in the 14th article that it had been interpreted to include other races
00:42:37 <oerjan> *mention
00:43:27 <hppavilion[1]> A lot of people were against https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Text on the grounds that... it didn't allow women to have special rights for being women (e.g. working conditions or hours)
00:44:28 <oerjan> oh i didn't know the original only had 7 articles
00:44:53 <hppavilion[1]> Does #esoteric have a constitution for some reason? I can see it existing
00:44:58 <hppavilion[1]> Or, well, I can see a hacker constitution
00:45:07 <oerjan> nope
00:46:16 <oerjan> no hits in https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States_of_America
00:47:06 <hppavilion[1]> fungot is, of course, supreme overlord of #esoteric
00:47:07 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: mr president, i read the sterling report of the working classes or financial support to the commission transferring all the unused appropriations from budget line fnord of the treaty, and we had to follow in all the directorates-general, and possibly modifying, the technical negotiations for the community's policy on mainstream and gender issues in development policy, of all the stages in the support of this roun
00:47:17 <hppavilion[1]> And if fne ever manages to say something coherent, it is binding
00:49:17 <oerjan> careful with that. there are some nasty things in the ct style.
00:49:24 <oerjan> ^style ct
00:49:24 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
00:49:48 <oerjan> fungot: who will bring an end to all?
00:49:48 <fungot> oerjan: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
00:50:29 <oerjan> fungot: are you saying the sword will stop the world?
00:50:29 <fungot> oerjan: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y. like that piano player. everyone's...! ...and the dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
00:50:42 <\oren\> Elon musk doesn't count as an african american for ... reasons
00:54:11 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Well, he's south african-born, but there are white people in South Africa (see: Apartheid)
00:54:24 <hppavilion[1]> He's Canadian-American, which is probably as white as you can get
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00:55:36 <hppavilion[1]> And he's probably also martian?
00:57:07 <hppavilion[1]> Aliens/Life on mars, but it's just Elon Musk, somehow/Life-related chemicals/Cool extremophiles found on earth/No aliens
00:57:43 <hppavilion[1]> (Theory: Elon Musk used the "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" meme, then realized he was rich enough to actually do it)
00:58:49 <\oren\> one day I'll retire to the Moon
00:59:13 <\oren\> or at least take a long vacation there
01:02:03 * hppavilion[1] stealthily opens wikipedia/retirement to find potential jokes
01:02:42 <hppavilion[1]> Well, the first one is "It's a shame, he was just a day from being put in a metal box and exploded off the surface of the earth"
01:03:49 <zzo38> The software "Astrolog" does not allow you to center a horoscope on the Moon. Other software may allow it I don't know; something based on Swiss Ephemeris may allow you to then subtract the numbers and convert to polar coordinates and therefore you can make the calculation relative to Moon. Neither of these software can calculate house positions relative to anything other than the Earth though. (If you select heliocentric mode in Astrolog, it stil
01:04:47 <hppavilion[1]> In thailand, you retire at 60 (or 50 if you retire early)
01:05:01 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, the US is terrible
01:05:10 <hppavilion[1]> We have 5% employment at the ages of 70+
01:05:11 <zzo38> But house positions relative to Sun should be possible if you can know where is the zero longitude on the surface of the Sun. Do you know where the zero longitude of Sun is?
01:06:44 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38 seems to be turning into fungot, but more coherent
01:06:44 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: cyrus! are you leaving! thou art and science... all to you!
01:11:45 <hppavilion[1]> Huh... rap music and discrete mathematics are similar in that the phrase "for reals" is frequently used...
01:12:41 <zzo38> I do not have a lot of interest in rap music so I would not know, but OK now we can know!
01:15:34 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: I believe Norway encourages people to continue working after retirement.
01:15:42 <shachaf> You'll have to ask oerjan to confirm that, though.
01:16:58 <shachaf> i,i http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/158414-america-is-the-wealthiest-nation-on-earth-but-its-people
01:19:15 <shachaf> Going by US tax law, retirement age is 59½ or greater.
01:25:17 <oerjan> `? zzo38
01:25:50 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
01:26:02 <oerjan> shachaf: they're also in the process of removing the upper age limits.
01:26:04 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ^
01:26:19 <oerjan> the involuntary ones, that is.
01:26:38 <shachaf> What involuntary limtis?
01:26:59 <hppavilion[1]> Norway: The opposite of North Korea
01:27:06 <oerjan> once you reach ... it may be 67? ... your employer can fire you for no reason.
01:27:14 <oerjan> even if you don't wish to retire.
01:27:44 <hppavilion[1]> I'm surprised all the other ISISes haven't changed their names yet
01:27:55 <hppavilion[1]> (e.g. the Institute for Science and International Security)
01:28:02 <shachaf> oerjan: Ah.
01:28:06 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: well the egyptian goddess probably just sneers at the idea hth
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01:28:09 <shachaf> In the US your employer can fire you for no reason at any time.
01:28:32 <oerjan> i've heard.
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01:29:00 <hppavilion[1]> In Zimbabwe, you don't have an employer
01:29:40 <zzo38> It would help to change their name to help to distinguish them, so that you will not confuse one with other, but in the correct contexts it can be clear. For Egyptian gods you can write "Isis" without capitalizing all of the letters, so that is not the problem.
01:30:08 <oerjan> in fact, i think your employment automatically expires then, unless you _explicitly_ get an agreement to continue. although my memory is not reliable on the details.
01:30:22 <oerjan> (in norway)
01:30:50 <pikhq> shachaf: Depends on the state actually.
01:32:00 <pikhq> ... And technically (but uselessly), they can only fire you for non-discriminatory reasons.
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01:32:22 <pikhq> (but do not have to say why they're firing you)
01:32:22 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: The general rule is that they can, unless the particular state says otherwise
01:32:42 <shachaf> pikhq: I said "for no reason, not "for any reason".
01:32:51 <pikhq> Ah, yes.
01:33:05 <hppavilion[1]> "Bammert v. Don's Super Valu, Inc., 646 N.W.2d 365 (Wis. 2002) the Wisconsin Supreme Court held that it was not contrary to public policy for an employer to dismiss an employee on grounds of her husband's drunk driving charge"
01:33:14 <pikhq> In most of the US but not all of it, it is literally legal to fire someone on the basis of "because".
01:33:39 <shachaf> And why not?
01:34:20 <shachaf> You might say: In some of the US, it is literally illegal to stop paying someone money unless you have good reason.
01:34:24 <shachaf> a
01:34:37 <shachaf> I pressed ^J instead of ^K while editing that sentence.
01:35:39 <shachaf> Anyway, I think California employment law is considered pretty employee-friendly in many ways.
01:35:45 <shachaf> But at-will employment is still standard here.
01:36:38 <pikhq> As with most things in labor relations, it's complicated, and any particular setup has pros and cons, and what's the best depends on a lot of things...
01:36:39 <oerjan> this is the kind of stuff that makes americans sound like space aliens to me.
01:37:03 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: WHO TOLD YOU THAT IT'S COMPLETELY WRONG
01:37:17 <oerjan> but then, lately norwegians do too so...
01:37:35 <shachaf> oerjan: What would be a less space-alien way of doing things?
01:37:38 <pikhq> Buuut, well. Employers tend to be bargaining from an incredibly advantageous position, that employees are not, and as such it can make sense to limit the power that an employer has over their employees.
01:38:07 <pikhq> Limiting reasons that an employer can dismiss an employee seems like reasonable in that light.
01:38:15 <oerjan> shachaf: actually trying to get a proper balance of power between employers and employees?
01:38:20 <hppavilion[1]> Personally, I think it makes the most sense to vaporize troublesome employees from orbit
01:39:25 <shachaf> That sounds good.
01:39:41 <oerjan> and also, employees actually cooperating in order not to get abused.
01:39:53 <oerjan> (aka unions)
01:40:08 <hppavilion[1]> We should scrap unions and use intersections instead
01:41:54 <zzo38> I think that some things that some things that employers would put in the contract to work should be prohibited, that both sides should be allowed to terminate employment at any time for any reason, and that minimum wage should be decreased to zero.
01:42:16 <oerjan> . o O ( stand here in the middle of this intersection until you agree to pay us properly )
01:43:13 <shachaf> zzo38: Why not decrease the minimum wage to a negative amount?
01:44:05 <oerjan> i think that zzo38 doesn't understand how power imbalance works.
01:44:35 <zzo38> Because it is not necessary and will not help. However, it can still be possible to lose money due to having to pay for parking and various other kind of services and products and so on. But the wages themself should not be allowed to be negative; the minimum should be zero.
01:44:50 * pikhq notes that oerjan is in a country without a minimum wage. :P
01:44:57 <oerjan> pikhq: heh
01:45:19 <pikhq> Though you're also in a country where unions are sufficiently strong that this is really a technicality.
01:46:11 <oerjan> yes. also we have a law (against "social dumping") which in certain cases allows enforcing union tariffs on non-unionized workers in an industry.
01:46:30 <oerjan> it's e.g. been used in construction
01:46:48 <shachaf> Isn't that just "ionized"?
01:46:56 <oerjan> MAYBE
01:51:20 <oerjan> no.wikipedia lists for 2012: construction, ship building, agriculture and cleaning services
01:52:09 <oerjan> (these are industries with major foreign workers and a history of abuse)
01:52:20 <oerjan> er
01:52:29 <oerjan> *a major amount of
01:53:21 <oerjan> (the term is "Allmengjøring" and there's no english article)
01:53:32 <oerjan> *nn
01:59:59 <shachaf> oerjan: but have you considered the benefits that large companies see from exploiting workers
02:02:01 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
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02:11:13 <shachaf> anyway i don't even know what to think about unions
02:16:50 <FreeFull> What do you think about intersections?
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02:47:07 <zzo38> `danddreclist 80
02:47:11 <HackEgo> danddreclist 80: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
02:47:27 <shachaf> lynn: should danddreclist be edited twh
02:48:17 <lynn> I never end up reading the updates these days anyway. ;-;
02:48:26 <shachaf> hynn
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02:50:08 <quintopia> hello
02:50:21 <zzo38> You can edit them by yourself if you want to though
02:50:46 <shachaf> Edit whom by yourself?
02:50:56 <lynn> I forget the command to do so, so...
02:50:59 <zzo38> Edit the danddreclist if you want to
02:51:12 <zzo38> (It looks OK to me though)
02:51:19 <quintopia> zzo38: if they are carved pips, scratching out the paint won't change the apparent value of the die...
02:51:38 <oerjan> lynn: `sled hth
02:52:06 <zzo38> quintopia: O, well, I don't know if it is carved pips or not, but because of what it says in the footnote (that I wrote), I will assume (for now) that they are not carved.
02:52:41 <zzo38> (Actually, footnotes have nothing to do with it)
02:52:46 <zzo38> (It is in the main text.)
02:54:31 <zzo38> The dice are big dice that can be used by ogres, so I don't know exactly its working
02:56:12 <quintopia> zzo38: they are these: http://www.orientaltrading.com/web/browse/processProductsCatalog?Nrpp=10000&sku=13674060&BP=PS490&ms=search&source=google&cm_mmc=Google-_-242030648-_-20452920848-_-Garden+Dice+Game&cm_mmca1=OTC%2BPLAs&cm_mmca2=GooglePLAs&cm_mmca3=PS490&cm_mmca4=FS39&cm_mmca5=Shopping&cm_mmca6=PLAs&cm_mmc10=Shopping&cm_mmca11=13674060&cm_mmca12=Garden+Dice+Game&gclid=CjwKEAjwzN27BRDFn9aAwLmH2yISJABWuEXcklu0LsVX_D0rO6w1wyL-46YQoJ7oKATadMn
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02:56:48 <zzo38> Why does it have so many query parameters?
02:57:05 <quintopia> http://goo.gl/MGm5FU
02:57:43 <zzo38> I tried omitting cm_mcca1 and everything after it and still found the page anyways.
02:58:03 <zzo38> Those dice do not look like carved pips to me as far as I can tell.
02:58:20 <shachaf> quintopia: whoa whoa whoa, posting url shorteners in irc for no reason is a bit rude
02:58:34 <zzo38> So if the dice are like those ones, then removing some of the dots should work
02:59:06 <quintopia> shachaf: i had a reason
02:59:09 <quintopia> zzo38: yes exactly
02:59:12 <pikhq> Those look like fairly large foam dice, TBH.
02:59:17 <quintopia> they are wood
02:59:22 <pikhq> Huh.
02:59:28 <shachaf> Why not just post the canonical link, <http://www.orientaltrading.com/garden-dice-game-a2-13674060.fltr>?
02:59:30 <pikhq> So they are.
02:59:36 <zzo38> It says right there, it is wood
02:59:57 <quintopia> shachaf: because i didn't know how much i could delete without it going somewhere else, so it's easier just to click the url shortener button
03:00:11 <shachaf> There's a canonical URL right in the page.
03:00:20 <shachaf> <link rel="canonical"
03:00:45 <quintopia> this concept of a canonical url is not one i'm familiar with
03:00:58 <quintopia> also the concept of a shortened url being rude in irc
03:01:26 <shachaf> A URL shortener is rude in IRC because it could lead to a shock site, for instance.
03:01:35 <pikhq> My browser doesn't seem fond of showing me the canonical URL.
03:01:55 <shachaf> Oh, well, I have a bookmarklet that takes me to the canonical URL for the current page.
03:01:55 <pikhq> Do you have an extension for that, shachaf?
03:02:04 <zzo38> I think that URL shortener should not be used unless the full URL is unusable for some reason.
03:02:08 <pikhq> Ah.
03:02:12 <quintopia> shachaf: that would imply linking to a shock site via shortened url is rude, not that shortened urls are rude in themselves
03:02:32 <shachaf> Well, linking to a shock site via any mechanism is rude.
03:02:32 <zzo38> (Independent of whether the URL shortening is posted on IRC or elsewhere)
03:02:40 <quintopia> true true
03:03:04 <shachaf> But a URL shortener, unnecessarily used, makes peoeple worry.
03:05:54 <pikhq> It'd be nice if browsers actually had an interface for rel=canonical, rather than needing a bookmarklet or extension.
03:06:11 <shachaf> I agree.
03:06:59 <zzo38> Possibly something can be done by use of userChrome.js or whatever, to apply the way to add a menu that will list all of the rel= links
03:08:07 <shachaf> Yes, adding some user chrome would solve pikhq's problem perfectly.
03:22:58 <hppavilion[1]> I prefer a link shortener where all links go directly to goatse
03:24:14 <zzo38> That works if you want to link to goatse but does not work so well if you want to link to something else.
03:24:34 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yes, but I only ever want to link to goatse
03:24:43 <hppavilion[1]> Does anybody use link shorteners for anything but shock imagery?
03:25:17 <hppavilion[1]> To be clear, it should allow you to link to different goatse-serving sites
03:29:07 <hppavilion[1]> I found http://ponycountdown.com/
03:29:10 <hppavilion[1]> I'm stuck
03:29:33 <lynn> Is that goatse?
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03:30:44 <hppavilion[1]> lynn: No
03:30:47 <hppavilion[1]> lynn: Not yet, at least
03:31:54 <shachaf> lynn: do you have any "fancy new automata facts" twh
03:32:52 <lynn> "No" :(
03:36:44 <shachaf> how about "fancy new lynn facts"
03:37:35 <oerjan> <quintopia> shachaf: that would imply linking to a shock site via shortened url is rude, not that shortened urls are rude in themselves <-- no, you need to think more meta: it is rude to link unnecessarily in such a way that it cannot be followed by someone with a personal policy not to click on links that aren't obviously non-shock sites.
03:37:49 <shachaf> right
03:38:09 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, if you click Twilight it counts in planck time
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03:49:21 * oerjan notes that wikipedia's featured article contains real life retirony
03:50:01 <shachaf> Irony about retirement?
03:50:10 <oerjan> it's a tvtrope
03:51:20 <oerjan> basically in any action movie, the life expectancy of any character drops badly if it is ever mentioned that they're just about to retire.
03:51:49 <hppavilion[1]> I'm never going to retire. Ever.
03:51:59 <oerjan> good plan.
03:53:20 * oerjan has the impression tvtropes has recently improved their site design. istr it went through a period it was pretty atrocious.
03:54:00 <oerjan> or maybe i'm confusing with wikia, which still is.
03:54:31 <pikhq> TVtropes hasn't *significantly* changed their site design at all.
03:54:32 <oerjan> *+when
03:54:37 <pikhq> I mean, it's changed, but not hugely.
03:58:33 <shachaf> oerjan: What if they mention that they've already retired?
03:58:42 <shachaf> And that they won't do their job maintaining the wisdom database?
03:58:55 <shachaf> What happens to their life expectancy then?
04:02:07 <oerjan> skyrocketing hth
04:02:34 <shachaf> how does swatting affect life expectancy
04:02:45 <oerjan> not much unless you're a fly
04:03:45 <shachaf> i've never known a fly to swat anything
04:07:07 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Retiring from minor roles on IRC can result in death, but only minor death on IRC
04:07:52 <hppavilion[1]> (relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1437/)
04:07:57 <oerjan> shachaf: they have some trouble holding the swatter
04:08:17 <shachaf> how is that relevant to anything
04:08:24 <shachaf> it's just a comic strip
04:08:44 <oerjan> shachaf: hover text
04:09:15 <oerjan> still, the relevance is pretty minor
04:09:16 <shachaf> you don't need to link to a comic strip for every thought you have
04:10:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Correct; only the ones for which there is a relevant xkcd
04:10:26 <hppavilion[1]> Just be glad I'm not the supernatural fandom
04:10:28 <shachaf> no, even if that comic strip has something vaguely related, you don't need to link to it
04:10:44 <oerjan> shachaf: i'd link a comic for that comment but i cannot find one
04:11:06 <oerjan> hm...
04:11:43 <shachaf> just don't
04:12:31 <oerjan> all i can find is this reddit link hth https://www.reddit.com/r/RelevantXKCD/comments/24duue/looking_for_an_xkcd_about_how_theres_always_a/
04:12:58 <shachaf> i'm not going to click on that
04:13:04 <shachaf> i asked you not to even do it
04:13:10 <oerjan> don't worry, they didn't actually find one.
04:13:30 <oerjan> well i didn't link to a comic.
04:13:40 <shachaf> is this some sort of cult of personality or what
04:13:48 <oerjan> what is
04:14:20 <oerjan> well the subreddit is of course about how there's always a relevant xkcd.
04:14:29 <shachaf> the whole phenomenon
04:14:55 <shachaf> every time someone talks about sql injection someone links to that annoying bobby comic
04:14:55 <oerjan> yeah
04:15:34 <shachaf> as if that comic invented sql injection
04:15:34 <oerjan> . o O ( is there an xkcd comic about people getting tired of memes )
04:22:22 <hppavilion[1]> Perl Harbor
04:23:01 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That's what I was looking for
04:23:07 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: There's the meme density one?
04:23:25 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh! The one where he saves old memes to use them again when everyone's forgotten!
04:26:50 <hppavilion[1]> Does HTCPCP support unfalsifiable claims?
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05:03:35 <hppavilion[1]> Polygraphs aren't very good
05:03:40 <hppavilion[1]> We should upgrade to omnigraphs
05:05:49 <shachaf> I know some good monographs.
05:05:55 <shachaf> So you're probably going in the wrong direction.
05:07:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What about nilgraphs?
05:07:08 <oerjan> besides you are mixing greek and latin again
05:07:22 <shachaf> oerjan: That's OK, English mixes Greek and Latin all the time.
05:07:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "hexadecimal"
05:07:39 * oerjan swats you both -----###
05:07:48 <shachaf> hey
05:07:55 <shachaf> half the fun of a swat is getting hilighted tdnh
05:08:51 * oerjan swats whoever invented "hexadecimal" in absentia -----###
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05:10:56 <oerjan> shaving ->
05:11:23 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
05:11:36 <shachaf> oerjan shaves?
05:12:04 <oerjan> it happens
05:12:11 <oerjan> every day or two
05:12:24 <oerjan> ->
05:12:53 <shachaf> oerjan: how do you feel about people pronouncing the 'j' in your name as 'zh'
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05:50:50 <Cale> also what about 'h'?
05:58:15 <izabera> what do i pass as a size to __builtin_apply in gcc with vararg functions?
06:06:59 <oerjan> shachaf: infidels!
06:08:24 <oerjan> Cale: no such thing.
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06:54:00 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm pretty sure "oerjan" is the IPA spelling hth
06:54:26 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( I wonder if there are any easter eggs hidden in the IPA )
06:57:13 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure you're wrong hth
06:57:36 <oerjan> i think only the j and n are right.
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07:03:24 <hppavilion[1]> Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn seems best-pronounced in a Schwarzenegger voice
07:04:18 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, there's "Mr. Universe" but no "Dr. Multiverse"
07:04:22 <hppavilion[1]> I see an opening
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09:24:26 <izabera> `unidecode 💜🌺
09:24:37 <izabera> `unidecode 👀🍻
09:24:41 <HackEgo> U+1F49C PURPLE HEART \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 9c UTF-16BE: d83ddc9c Decimal: &#128156; \ 💜 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F33A HIBISCUS \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8c ba UTF-16BE: d83cdf3a Decimal: &#127802; \ 🌺 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
09:24:51 <HackEgo> U+1F440 EYES \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 80 UTF-16BE: d83ddc40 Decimal: &#128064; \ 👀 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F37B CLINKING BEER MUGS \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8d bb UTF-16BE: d83cdf7b Decimal: &#127867; \ 🍻 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
09:27:28 <oerjan> `? sheaf
09:27:30 <HackEgo> sheaf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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10:00:12 <izabera> did you know that the posters for toy story 3 and harry potter the deathly hallows 2 don't have the title of the movie on them?
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11:16:23 <hppavilion[1]> <hppavilion[1]> (We assume it's a real doctorate (no Doctors of Divination) from an accredited program and it isn't honourary)
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11:16:54 <hppavilion[1]> <hppavilion[1]> Fan-bearer on the Right Side of the King: An actual tutile
11:16:56 <hppavilion[1]> <hppavilion[1]> *title
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11:17:34 <hppavilion[1]> <hppavilion[1]> Women-only scholarships: The most sexist-ass bullshit I've ever seen
11:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> * FLHerne (
11:17:38 <hppavilion[1]> Fuck
11:17:40 <hppavilion[1]> Did that go through?
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12:31:27 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: guess what, I just vacated your state.
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12:47:22 <hppavilion[2]> tswett: Wat?
12:47:33 <hppavilion[2]> tswett: Which state?
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12:48:39 <tswett> Alaska.
12:50:28 <hppavilion[2]> tswett: Oh?
12:50:31 <hppavilion[2]> Vacated as in left?
12:51:11 <hppavilion[2]> I take it you went through our Series of Tubes Memorial Airport?
12:51:13 <int-e> tswett: hmm, did you leave behind any surprises?
12:51:55 <hppavilion[2]> I don't think anything e left would look out of place among anything else
12:53:05 <int-e> (it's a non-answerable question, of course; once revealed it would no longer be a surprise)
12:53:34 <hppavilion[2]> If I ever get to be in charge of a polygraph, I'm asking "Is the answer to this question no?"
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17:15:13 <moon_> Moo
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20:16:08 <sesshomariu> ah, so thats da irc
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20:16:56 <myname> o.o
20:17:52 <izabera> da irc was quiet
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20:39:08 <quintopia> @tell oerjan <oerjan> no, you need to think more meta: it is rude to link unnecessarily in such a way that it cannot be followed by someone with a personal policy not to click on links that aren't obviously non-shock sites. <-- this seems obviously false. posting a shortened link and saying "this is a link to X" and it is should not be rude, unless trigger warnings are also rude. a link poster is not rude because someone else has a personal p
20:39:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:39:15 <moon_> moo
20:40:54 <quintopia> @tell oerjan it should be the job of the person with the personal policy to paste the link into getlinkinfo.com if they want to see where the link goes.
20:40:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:44:03 <quintopia> @tell oerjan or else, perhaps even easier, configure their terminal or browser to automatically send shortened links there
20:44:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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21:48:19 <moonheart> moo
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22:54:25 <moonythedwarf> mop
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23:07:30 <alercah> anyone have recommendations for a cross-device password manager?
23:15:26 <izabera> i just spent several hours trying to build a thing where the main shell script did something like this for every command: cmd > logfile 2>&1
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23:27:32 <alercah> lol
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23:46:16 <oerjan> @messages-foul
23:46:17 <lambdabot> quintopia said 3h 7m 7s ago: <oerjan> no, you need to think more meta: it is rude to link unnecessarily in such a way that it cannot be followed by someone with a personal policy not to click on links that aren't obviously non-shock sites. <-- this seems obviously false. posting a shortened link and saying "this is a link to X" and it is should
23:46:17 <lambdabot> not be rude, unless trigger warnings are also rude. a link poster is not rude because someone else has a personal p
23:46:17 <lambdabot> quintopia said 3h 5m 22s ago: it should be the job of the person with the personal policy to paste the link into getlinkinfo.com if they want to see where the link goes.
23:46:17 <lambdabot> quintopia said 3h 2m 13s ago: or else, perhaps even easier, configure their terminal or browser to automatically send shortened links there
23:48:14 <oerjan> @tell quintopia i disagree. also it's your job to fix your client so your messages don't get cut off hth
23:48:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:50:20 <oerjan> @tell quintopia as a more general rule, it is rude to push work on several others that it is easier for you to do yourself.
23:50:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:50:41 * oerjan just _knows_ he'll get that one back.
23:50:51 <oerjan> (karmically)
23:52:03 <izabera> most systems have a max level of scripts they can run with a shebang
23:52:14 <izabera> at some point the kernel just returns ELOOP
23:52:23 <izabera> i just realized you can bypass this with /usr/bin/env
23:53:05 <oerjan> hm that reminds me
23:53:23 <oerjan> does HackEgo support running scripts as #! interpreters
23:53:30 <izabera> sure
23:53:43 <oerjan> hm that makes an idea i had much easier.
23:54:21 <oerjan> `cat bin/*input
23:54:32 <oerjan> buh
23:54:43 <HackEgo> cat: bin/*input: No such file or directory
23:54:46 <oerjan> `` cat bin/print*
23:54:52 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi
23:55:06 <oerjan> i wanted to make a version of that can be used as a #!
23:55:21 <izabera> else cat "$@"
23:55:32 <oerjan> no
23:55:33 <izabera> but then $# will never be 0
23:55:51 <oerjan> exactly
23:56:04 <izabera> add shift at the beginning
23:56:12 <oerjan> not quite
23:56:17 <izabera> y u no shift
23:56:28 <oerjan> well ok but i need to save what's shifted first
23:56:30 <oerjan> lessee
23:56:44 <izabera> var=$1; bro do you even shift
23:57:15 <oerjan> well ok just need to find out where the args go
23:57:25 <oerjan> `` ls bin/print*
23:57:29 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input
23:58:06 <oerjan> and what to call the modified script
23:59:13 <oerjan> maybe just shebang_args_or_input
23:59:41 <oerjan> so it would be like #!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python
2016-07-04
00:00:04 <oerjan> and then it gets called with arguments python scriptfile restofargs
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00:02:16 <quintopia> oerjan: i'm suggesting a general metaethical principle that it not the purpose of etiquette and manners to compensate for the /choices/ of others. whether you want to do so should be a personal choice every time with no denigration if you choose not to
00:03:22 <quintopia> and i have yet to figure out an acceptable way to make my client treat too long messages the way i'd like them to be treated, so i'm willing to accept the occasional cut-off message
00:05:21 <oerjan> quintopia: isn't the entire purpose of etiquette and manners not to disturb people unintentionally?
00:05:42 <izabera> s/unintentionally//
00:05:47 <oerjan> you can of course do it if you _intend_ to, in which case you are allowed, but _still_ rude.
00:06:03 <quintopia> oerjan: no
00:06:05 <quintopia> it is not
00:06:07 <oerjan> quintopia: yes.
00:06:11 <oerjan> you are wrong hth
00:06:42 <quintopia> it is about establishing general principles that *everyone* is supposed to follow. societally enforced laws. a list of items which it is acceptable to refer to someone as rude for not obeying
00:07:02 <quintopia> in general we try to pick those items based on whether not doing them would disturb people unintentionally
00:07:14 <quintopia> but not disturbing people unintentionally goes well beyond manners and etiquette
00:07:33 <oerjan> hm
00:07:57 <quintopia> one thing that should never be on that list is "it should be my fault for doing something that i had absolutely no way of knowing would offend you"
00:09:07 <izabera> maybe hitler didn't know that holocaust would offend jews
00:11:27 <quintopia> maybe
00:11:45 <quintopia> he certainly kept doing it long after they made it clear to him
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00:26:44 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input
00:26:51 <HackEgo> 2016-07-03 23:26:39 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input [126/126] -> "shebang_args_or_input" [1]
00:27:01 <oerjan> `` mv she* bin
00:27:07 <HackEgo> No output.
00:27:14 <oerjan> `` chmod +x bin/she*
00:27:17 <HackEgo> No output.
00:27:31 <oerjan> ok now what was that python script
00:28:24 <oerjan> `` grep -l python bin
00:28:25 <HackEgo> grep: bin: Is a directory
00:28:29 <oerjan> `` grep -l python bin/*
00:28:36 <HackEgo> bin/cAt \ bin/CaT \ bin/distort \ bin/gs2c \ bin/gs2.py \ bin/gs2x \ bin/icode \ bin/json \ bin/loudly \ bin/loudlye \ bin/multicode \ bin/rainbow \ bin/rainwords \ bin/raw-url \ bin/toutf8 \ bin/unicode \ bin/unidecode \ bin/uniqs \ bin/url \ bin/wl \ bin/zalgo
00:29:00 <oerjan> rainbow it was
00:29:06 <oerjan> `head bin/rainbow
00:29:08 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p)
00:29:27 <oerjan> `rainbow test
00:29:43 <oerjan> `` echo test | rainbow
00:29:46 <oerjan> oh duh
00:29:55 <HackEgo> test
00:29:58 <HackEgo> No output.
00:30:48 <oerjan> `sled bin/rainbow//1c#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python
00:30:54 <HackEgo> bin/rainbow//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p)
00:30:59 <oerjan> argh
00:31:12 <oerjan> now that was right
00:31:15 <oerjan> `rainbow test
00:31:18 <HackEgo> test
00:31:30 <oerjan> `` echo test | rainbow
00:31:33 <HackEgo> test
00:31:37 <oerjan> splendid
00:31:53 <oerjan> `head bin/rainwords
00:31:54 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w)
00:32:12 <oerjan> `` rainwords test </dev/null
00:32:13 <quintopia> is it random colors now
00:32:16 <HackEgo> No output.
00:32:23 <quintopia> `rainbow WHAT WILL ALL THE COLORS BE
00:32:25 <HackEgo> WHAT WILL ALL THE COLORS BE
00:32:32 <oerjan> quintopia: rainbow and rainwords is different
00:32:53 <oerjan> `sled bin/rainwords//1c#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python
00:32:55 <HackEgo> bin/rainwords//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w)
00:33:06 <oerjan> `rainwords would you look at all this stuff
00:33:09 <HackEgo> would you look at all this stuff
00:33:39 <quintopia> is there one that does a smooth evenly distributed progression from red to purple
00:34:04 <quintopia> using all the color colors, not just those 7
00:34:15 <oerjan> `` zalgo test </dev/null
00:34:18 <HackEgo> No output.
00:34:30 <oerjan> `` echo test | zalgo
00:34:34 <HackEgo> t̶̃e҉̏s̝̀t̂ͧ
00:34:37 <oerjan> `head bin/zalgo
00:34:38 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/python \ import codecs,sys,random \ stdin=codecs.getreader("utf-8")(sys.stdin) \ stdout=codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.stdout) \ x=[unichr(0x300+i) for i in range(0,112)+[393,2887]] \ def z(n,c): \ if c in ["\n"]+x: \ n=0 \ return u"".join(x[random.randrange(0,len(x))] for i in range(n)) \ stdout.write(u"".join(c+z(2,c) for c in st
00:34:52 <oerjan> `sled bin/zalgo//1c#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python
00:34:54 <HackEgo> bin/zalgo//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import codecs,sys,random \ stdin=codecs.getreader("utf-8")(sys.stdin) \ stdout=codecs.getwriter("utf-8")(sys.stdout) \ x=[unichr(0x300+i) for i in range(0,112)+[393,2887]] \ def z(n,c): \ if c in ["\n"]+x: \ n=0 \ return u"".join(x[random.randrange(0,len(x))] for i in range(n)) \ stdout.w
00:35:01 <oerjan> `` zalgo test </dev/null
00:35:04 <HackEgo> t̃̅e͓͐s͎̓t̜̟
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00:38:06 <oerjan> <quintopia> using all the color colors, not just those 7 <-- not to my knowledge. does irc even allow that?
00:38:35 <oerjan> helloily
00:38:53 <quintopia> helloily ain't seen you here in a bit
00:38:55 <quintopia> what been up to
00:39:02 <boily> quinthellørjan!
00:39:11 <oerjan> `` loudly test </dev/null
00:39:14 <HackEgo> test
00:39:27 <boily> I was invaded by my parents! mahjong happened!
00:39:35 <oerjan> `` echo test | loudly
00:39:37 <HackEgo> test
00:39:43 <oerjan> that one seems to already work
00:39:49 <oerjan> `head bin/loudly
00:39:49 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, itertools, locale, locale \ inp = len(sys.argv) >= 2 and sys.argv[1] or raw_input() \ cyc = itertools.cycle(["\00304,09","\00309,04"]) \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())
00:40:14 <oerjan> `head bin/distort
00:40:14 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
00:40:37 <boily> is it possible to shoot ANSI escape codes over IRC?
00:40:40 <oerjan> hm that one actually uses files.
00:41:18 <oerjan> cannot change it backwards compatibly.
00:41:49 <oerjan> boily: are you complaining about my loud tests
00:42:21 <boily> no, I want more colours! :D
00:42:48 <oerjan> boily: probably, but do clients support them?
00:43:05 <oerjan> `` cAt test </dev/null
00:43:07 <HackEgo> No output.
00:43:24 <oerjan> hm wait that one obviously does files
00:44:32 <oerjan> `cat bin/wl
00:44:34 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import os \ import sys \ import json \ import urllib2 \ \ proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({'http': os.environ['http_proxy']}) \ opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_handler) \ urllib2.install_opener(opener) \ \ def lose(): \ print 'You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!' \ sys.exit() \ \ def eels(): \
00:45:01 <oerjan> hm i don't think that one is relevant, or for that matter will work on HackEgo
00:45:34 <oerjan> `` grep -l perl bin/*
00:45:45 <shachaf> oerjan: The trouble with shebang_args_or_input is that you need a #! line, which means you need a newline
00:45:45 <HackEgo> bin/@ \ bin/asm \ bin/benvenuto \ bin/bienvenido \ bin/bienvenue \ bin/blessyou \ bin/card-by-name \ bin/ctof \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/dis86 \ bin/en2sv \ bin/fromroman \ bin/ftoc \ bin/h \ bin/?h \ bin/h! \ bin/hatesgeo \ bin/?hh \ bin/hi \ bin/hyfinate \ bin/hyphenate.fi \ bin/jq \ bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/learn_append \ bin/len \ bin/len.pl \ bin/ma
00:45:52 <shachaf> Which means you can't use mk, as it currently exists.
00:46:07 <oerjan> shachaf: true, but it's intended for scripts are _already_ shebangs.
00:46:15 <oerjan> e.g. those python ones.
00:47:48 <oerjan> shachaf: i just made it because i was annoyed of them only working as pipes, and the usual print_args_or_input only works well with shell scripts.
00:47:57 <shachaf> Sure.
00:48:07 <shachaf> But mk should be jammed up to support newlines or something.
00:48:54 <oerjan> it's a little tricky because in my mind a main feature of mk is that you _don't_ need to escape stuff.
00:49:13 <shachaf> Right.
00:49:17 <shachaf> In my mind too.
00:49:35 <shachaf> I guess an alternative would be mk_append
00:49:40 <shachaf> So you mk one line at a time.
00:49:48 <oerjan> yeah
00:49:54 <shachaf> `blessyou ants
00:49:55 <HackEgo> Bless you, ants. Blants.
00:50:05 <oerjan> huh
00:50:13 <shachaf> Gesundheit, ants. Gesants.
00:51:17 <boily> `blessyou consonant
00:51:18 <HackEgo> Bless you, consonant. Blonsonant.
00:51:34 <boily> `blessyou ďiacritic
00:51:35 <HackEgo> Bless you, ďiacritic. Bliacritic.
00:51:43 <boily> `blessyou édiacritic
00:51:44 <HackEgo> Bless you, édiacritic. Bliacritic.
00:52:53 <shachaf> `blessyou wood
00:52:55 <HackEgo> Bless you, wood. Blood.
00:53:35 <shachaf> `blessyou night
00:53:39 <HackEgo> Bless you, night. Blight.
00:53:39 <oerjan> `` blessyou food # catholics are fond of this
00:53:40 <HackEgo> Bless you, food. Blood.
00:54:05 <shachaf> oerjan: Isn't it the wine that turns into blood, though?
00:54:09 <oerjan> MAyBE
00:54:56 <zzo38> They will say it does, and then admit there is no change, so how does that mean?
00:56:32 <oerjan> it's a mystery hth
00:57:36 * quintopia puts a pumpkin on boily's head
00:57:52 <oerjan> what now
00:57:53 <shachaf> is oerjan catholic
00:58:35 * boily has a pumpkin helmet ^^
00:58:59 <quintopia> i wonder is it about to rain
00:59:04 <quintopia> am i going to have to walk home in the rain
00:59:35 <shachaf> Wait, since when is zalgo written in Python?
00:59:38 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm a rather passive member of the norwegian church. except for that church election i mentioned a year or two ago.
00:59:46 <oerjan> shachaf: i dunno?
01:00:12 <shachaf> Apparently Jafet rewrote it?
01:00:47 <boily> @metar KATL
01:00:47 <lambdabot> KATL 032352Z 33007KT 10SM -RA SCT065TCU BKN100 BKN200 BKN250 29/19 A3003 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2246 RAB50 SLP159 TCU E-OHD-W & DSNT SE CB DSNT NE P0000 60000 T02940194 10367 20294 53006
01:00:55 <boily> &???
01:01:02 <oerjan> quintopia: that takes either umbrage or umbrella hth
01:01:27 <quintopia> oerjan: umbrellas provide umbrage. i will have neither tdnh
01:01:45 <shachaf> the dogs now howl
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01:08:01 <quintopia> yep it sure started raining
01:08:08 <quintopia> wonder when it stops
01:09:00 <quintopia> oh it's not gonna last long
01:11:45 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> Did that go through? <-- far too much of it hth
01:11:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:55:10 <moonythedwarf> moo
02:58:14 <oerjan> good mooning
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03:10:40 <shachaf> `wisdom
03:11:08 <HackEgo> nœd//Nœd is Norwegian for distress.
03:45:41 <zzo38> I was making a new toolkit library for X and this is one example program that works so far: http://sprunge.us/AQAd
03:46:38 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you have a program that automatically extracts code from "#if 0" and runs it?
03:48:02 <zzo38> The program "bash" will treat "#if 0" as a comment and stop once "exit" is reached, so that is what can be used
03:48:19 <shachaf> Ah, of course.
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06:01:34 <zzo38> This program makes a window with the title "Test!" and the mouse cursor shape is a eight-way arrow; when clicked it exits, the exit code tell which mouse button is pushed. Command-line arguments can be used to override the title, cursor shape, window size, and background colour.
06:02:40 <myname> most usefull program of all time?
06:02:59 <zzo38> It is just an example of this use and just a test; nor very useful.
06:03:29 <zzo38> (Normally you should use XwicCreateFormWindow (which additionally sets up the event handler automatically and populates the window with widgets and a few other things) rather than XwicCreateMainWindow, although XwicCreateFormWindow is not fully implemented yet.)
06:04:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
06:04:50 <hppavilion[1]> If the Internet declared sovereignty and formed a government, what would its political structure be?
06:05:09 <hppavilion[1]> (We assume that the people on the internet lack physical bodies and are no longer part of their host nations)
06:05:15 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-houd
06:05:15 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 53m 30s ago: <hppavilion[1]> Did that go through? <-- far too much of it hth
06:05:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: sry
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06:19:40 <izabera> https://arin.ga/9UPuGZ/raw i just wrote this
06:20:06 <izabera> surely someone else came up with it before me
06:20:23 <izabera> but i've never seen it anywhere
06:20:30 <lifthrasiir> izabera: print("dang", NULL, "it");
06:20:51 <izabera> what would you expect it to print in that case?
06:21:21 <izabera> i'd expect it to either segfault or vomit junk
06:21:41 <izabera> so just don't pass null pointers to it
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06:44:41 <pikhq> izabera: You need to va_end(ap); at the end of that function.
06:45:04 <izabera> yes i do but my compiler ought to help me find stupid bugs like that
06:45:19 <pikhq> It should, yes, but it doesn't. Grumble!
06:45:21 <lifthrasiir> compiler is stupid :)
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07:02:27 <FreeFull> izabera: I could write a Rust macro that does the same thing
07:02:46 <izabera> you can't
07:02:57 <izabera> my license is proprietary
07:03:07 <izabera> i'll sue the shit out of you
07:04:23 <izabera> on a more serious note, what's the smallest amount of code you can copyright?
07:09:05 <FreeFull> izabera: https://is.gd/iqltum Too late
07:09:41 <izabera> lawyer up
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07:11:03 <FreeFull> Nah
07:12:42 <izabera> mine works with numbers too
07:12:47 <izabera> as long as they're in your address space
07:12:58 <izabera> and you can dereference them as pointer to char
07:13:45 <FreeFull> Mine works with any type that implements Display
07:15:25 <shachaf> hikhq
07:20:32 <FreeFull> I didn't even need va_end(ap);
07:20:47 <izabera> rust is so unfair
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07:40:30 <shachaf> `wisdom
07:40:43 <HackEgo> future//We know nothing about the future.
07:41:09 <izabera> i know what time it will be 1 minute in the future
07:42:06 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball Was a bounty hunter justified in shooting this man's dog?
07:42:08 <HackEgo> Outlook good.
07:42:12 <hppavilion[1]> Damn
07:42:15 <hppavilion[1]> I was hoping that would work
07:42:23 <hppavilion[1]> That's what happens when you rely on random chance to make a joke
07:42:50 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5mwymTIJU reflective of real Magic 8 balls?
07:42:51 <HackEgo> You may rely on it.
07:42:54 <izabera> you should have a joke ready for all possible outcomes
07:42:54 <hppavilion[1]> OK
07:43:03 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Yeah, generally that's the case
07:43:17 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is literal horseshit tasty?
07:43:19 <HackEgo> Yes.
07:43:22 <hppavilion[1]> ...wow
07:43:40 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is Justin Bieber a good singer?
07:43:40 <HackEgo> You may rely on it.
07:43:47 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is Justin Timberlake a good singer?
07:43:48 <HackEgo> Concentrate and ask again.
07:43:50 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is Justin Timberlake a good singer?
07:43:51 <HackEgo> It is certain.
07:44:02 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm just waiting for the right response to trigger)
07:44:09 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is Miley Cyrus a good singer?
07:44:10 <HackEgo> Very doubtful.
07:44:14 <lifthrasiir> `8-ball is 8-ball working correctly?
07:44:17 <HackEgo> Outlook good.
07:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is Hannah Montanna a good singer?
07:44:20 <HackEgo> It is certain.
07:44:29 <hppavilion[1]> `8-ball is Donald Trump a good singer?
07:44:29 <HackEgo> Holy shit, I can't believe you're even asking me. NO!
07:44:34 <hppavilion[1]> THERE we go
07:44:37 <lifthrasiir> `8-ball am I sane right now?
07:44:37 <HackEgo> Don't count on it.
07:44:51 <hppavilion[1]> It's a reference to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5mwymTIJU
07:44:55 <hppavilion[1]> For all wondering
07:45:13 <oerjan> `8-ball Is hppavilion[1] trying too hard?
07:45:14 <HackEgo> Yes definitely.
07:45:20 <oerjan> hth
07:45:29 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ty tdh
07:46:40 <oerjan> yw
08:06:37 <hppavilion[1]> What is the worst name for a US state (or other area) that a band could take?
08:06:49 <hppavilion[1]> My guess is US Virgin Islands
08:09:03 <\oren\> Virgin Islands sounds like a h-game title
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08:56:45 <b_jonas> how's it going?
08:59:41 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Approximately_64,695_Pounds_of_Shark_Fins
09:01:39 <hppavilion[1]> United States v. Vampire Nation
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09:06:38 <b_jonas> it's Monday!
09:08:37 <lifthrasiir> it's been Monday for 17 hours here
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10:50:12 <b_jonas> `dateu
10:50:24 <b_jonas> wakey wakey HackEgo
10:51:02 <HackEgo> 2016-07-04 09:50:51.348726000+00:00
10:52:38 <izabera> `` cat bin/dateu
10:52:45 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec date --rfc-3=n -u "$@"
10:52:51 <b_jonas> izabera: it has a pair, datei
10:52:56 <izabera> `` cat bin/datei
10:52:57 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec date --rfc-3=n "$@"
10:53:03 <izabera> `datei
10:53:04 <HackEgo> 2016-07-04 09:52:56.239897000+00:00
10:53:21 <b_jonas> they do the same on HackEgo, because it has UTC as its default timezone,
10:53:24 <b_jonas> although you can still do
10:53:38 <izabera> i'm disappointed tho
10:53:44 <b_jonas> ``` TZ=Europe/Paris; dateu; datei
10:53:46 <HackEgo> 2016-07-04 09:53:38.753286000+00:00 \ 2016-07-04 09:53:38.786882000+00:00
10:53:50 <b_jonas> izabera: why?
10:54:27 <b_jonas> (that didn't work)
10:54:54 <b_jonas> ``` TZ=:Europe/Paris; dateu; datei
10:54:56 <HackEgo> 2016-07-04 09:54:47.754040000+00:00 \ 2016-07-04 09:54:47.788169000+00:00
10:55:01 <b_jonas> still no
10:55:22 <b_jonas> whatever
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11:25:03 <fizzie> ``` export TZ=Europe/Paris; dateu; datei
11:25:05 <HackEgo> 2016-07-04 10:24:56.472202000+00:00 \ 2016-07-04 12:24:56.495597000+02:00
11:25:06 <fizzie> b_jonas: ^
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11:31:36 <izabera> @work we have macros that end in try {
11:43:47 <b_jonas> fizzie: oh DUH
11:43:53 <b_jonas> I just don't know my bash
11:43:57 <b_jonas> thanks
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12:36:11 <b_jonas> `wisdom
12:36:13 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:36:16 <b_jonas> `wisdom
12:36:18 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:37:08 <HackEgo> No output.
12:37:15 <HackEgo> No output.
12:37:16 <HackEgo> space elevator//Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency.
12:37:16 <HackEgo> Vedalken AEthermage \ 1U \ Creature -- Vedalken Wizard \ 1/2 \ Flash (You may cast this spell any time you could cast an instant.) \ When Vedalken AEthermage enters the battlefield, return target Sliver to its owner's hand. \ Wizardcycling {3} ({3}, Discard this card: Search your library for a Wizard card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then
12:37:48 <b_jonas> that's one of the Time Spiral block ones, right?
12:38:07 <b_jonas> yup, FUT time shifted
12:38:40 <b_jonas> `random-card [a-z]cycling
12:38:43 <HackEgo> Jhessian Zombies \ 4UB \ Creature -- Zombie \ 2/4 \ Fear (This creature can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or black creatures.) \ Islandcycling {2}, swampcycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Search your library for an Island or Swamp card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.) \ ARB-C, DDH-C
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12:48:53 <izabera> they ported docker in go https://twitter.com/icecrime/status/730422482516082688
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13:04:36 <izabera> // replace \n with "" and trim
13:04:37 <izabera> replaceString("\n", "", lValue);
13:04:39 <izabera> trim(lValue);
13:05:03 <izabera> useful comments everywhere
13:13:13 <FireFly> Fun codebase
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16:20:56 <izabera1> handy: #define Sprintf(fmt, ...) ({ char *tmp; asprintf(&tmp, fmt, __VA_ARGS__); tmp; })
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16:35:08 <izabera> moar comments from work:
16:35:09 <izabera> Reboot the Solaris Server
16:35:11 <izabera> I know this sounds stupid, but even after restarting LDAP and enabling/starting/restarting the DNS client, things still didn’t work for me in the lab. However, after rebooting the Solaris server, it worked like a champ. So, just in case, reboot the Solaris server after completing the configuration.
16:37:44 <izabera> and we have a trash bin with a /dev/null label http://i.imgur.com/K3ncORb.jpg
16:39:59 <ais523> izabera: but reading from /dev/null gives EOF
16:40:06 <ais523> I don't think you can do that from a trashcan
16:40:20 <b_jonas> In today's xkcd, am I supposed to assume there's more explanation omitted between the last two panels?
16:40:21 <izabera> i sure am not gonna try
16:40:32 <b_jonas> hi, ais523
16:41:19 <ais523> b_jonas: I think so
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19:24:29 <\oren\> I hate C++
19:24:57 <izabera> i hate kids
19:24:59 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
19:25:00 <\oren\> it shouldn't be possible for it to have a type error in invisible code
19:25:21 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeesh//See yeeeeeesh.
19:25:28 <wob_jonas> \oren\: you mean like in templates?
19:25:33 <\oren\> yeah
19:25:46 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
19:25:47 <\oren\> Somehow it generated a class with a type error
19:25:48 <HackEgo> mapole//A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
19:26:45 <wob_jonas> \oren\: um, I dunno, if you want a strong type system, wait like a few more years till rust gains better support for generics (e.g. generics parametrized by compile-time constant values rather than by types, etc) and maybe use that
19:27:18 <wob_jonas> or, like, try Haskell
19:27:34 <\oren\> Haskell has sucky support for imperative code
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19:29:29 <\oren\> I get how monads are "programmable semicolons" or whatever, but it would be nice if haskell had support for our normal semicolons that we've been using since 1970
19:30:13 -!- augur has joined.
19:30:21 <wob_jonas> hehe, "programmable semicolons"
19:30:21 <wob_jonas> `? monads
19:30:25 <HackEgo> Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.
19:30:39 <wob_jonas> hmm, how to wisdom that
19:39:59 <int-e> `wisdom
19:40:02 <HackEgo> caffè//Caffè is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in Italy.
19:41:23 <\oren\> is there a library that adds a goto statement to Heskell?
19:42:27 <\oren\> actually I guess you would first need the ability to tell haskell what order to do things in
19:43:04 <\oren\> and then a simpler syntax for variables
19:43:19 <\oren\> (like, variable variables I mean)
19:44:49 <\oren\> Ooh, Control.Monad.Imperative
19:45:28 <\oren\> https://github.com/mmirman/ImperativeHaskell/blob/master/Main.hs
19:46:23 <wob_jonas> When do you refill the lemon-scented paper napkins?
19:46:48 <wob_jonas> \oren\: you know, a lot of imperative languages could actually do with having a goto added.
19:47:02 <wob_jonas> Eg. ruby, python, rust.
19:47:12 <wob_jonas> (I was surprised to learn that lua has a goto now.)
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20:01:21 <wob_jonas> `? napkin
20:01:23 <HackEgo> napkin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:11:13 <moonythedwarf> hbot got klined and i cant find any freenode staff >_>
20:14:01 <wob_jonas> it turns out, it's lemon-soaked paper napkins instead
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20:36:45 <wob_jonas> `shashlearn napkin/A complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins is essential for the comfort, refreshment, and hygiene of the passengers during the journey.
20:36:56 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: shashlearn: not found
20:37:08 <wob_jonas> `slashlearn napkin/A complement of small lemon-soaked paper napkins is essential for the comfort, refreshment, and hygiene of the passengers during the journey.
20:37:15 <HackEgo> Learned «napkin»
20:39:10 <shachaf> What happened to putting the name of the thing at the beginning of the wisdom entry?
20:39:23 <shachaf> Also, why do you make those b_jonas-style wisdom entries?
20:41:52 <wob_jonas> dunno, they're sort of my style or something
20:42:40 <wob_jonas> besides, the statistical likelihood is, some day a civilization will arise, and then there will be small lemon-soaked paper napkins, and then there'll be a short delay before continuing your flight
20:44:36 <wob_jonas> `? cake
20:44:39 <HackEgo> The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
20:46:01 <wob_jonas> shachaf: do you have a good idea how to turn this one into a wisdom entry? I think it wouldn't be b_jonas-style => "<\oren\> I get how monads are "programmable semicolons" or whatever,"
20:46:15 <wob_jonas> the problem is, we already have a wisdom/monad
20:46:43 <shachaf> Not everything needs a wisdom entry.
20:47:11 <wob_jonas> maybe addquote it or something, how does that work?
20:47:20 <wob_jonas> `? addquote
20:47:21 <HackEgo> addquote? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:48:06 <shachaf> Why?
20:48:43 <shachaf> Oh, you're thinking it was the first time it was said or something?
20:48:56 <shachaf> "programmable semicolons" is an old phrase.
20:49:10 <wob_jonas> is it?
20:49:15 <wob_jonas> `? programmable semicolons
20:49:16 <HackEgo> programmable semicolons? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:49:22 <shachaf> @google "programmable semicolons"
20:49:23 <lambdabot> http://zacharyvoase.com/2014/04/30/monads/
20:49:24 <lambdabot> Title: Monads, or Programmable Semicolons | Zack’s Blog
20:49:47 <shachaf> I'm not a huge fan of it but it's been around for at least five years.
21:04:56 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I see
21:16:04 <\oren\> i'd prefer if languages like Haskell and C++ had fewer solutions to invented problems
21:17:37 -!- adu has joined.
21:20:50 <\oren\> C++ could have made more operators like the new[] and delete[] operators and thus done away with the vector<> class
21:23:00 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
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21:45:02 <shachaf> C++ should have had something like vector instead of new[] and delete[]
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22:10:46 <\oren\> shachaf: right. if they had vector<> as a builtin that would also be good
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22:20:53 <shachaf> It's in the standard library.
22:21:00 <shachaf> Even better than built-in.
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23:37:22 <oerjan> @work hm
23:38:05 * oerjan noticed izabera accidentally doing @work in the logs, and lambdabot not responding
23:38:17 <oerjan> @werk
23:38:17 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: where vera
23:38:27 <oerjan> @worf
23:38:35 <oerjan> @word
23:38:42 <oerjan> @woom
23:38:42 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:38:49 <oerjan> @list word
23:38:49 <lambdabot> No module "word" loaded
23:38:53 <oerjan> @list work
23:38:53 <lambdabot> No module "work" loaded
23:38:58 <oerjan> @bork
23:39:03 <oerjan> @bork hi there
23:39:09 <oerjan> @bank
23:39:09 <lambdabot> Who should I ask?
23:39:13 <oerjan> wat
23:39:25 <oerjan> @worse
23:39:34 <oerjan> @worst
23:39:34 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:39:42 <oerjan> @wor
23:39:42 <lambdabot> world02 ..... CIA World Factbook 2002
23:39:49 <oerjan> @world
23:39:49 <lambdabot> world02 ..... CIA World Factbook 2002
23:39:53 <oerjan> @work
23:40:02 <oerjan> that's weird
23:40:12 <oerjan> @hork
23:40:20 <oerjan> @wock
23:40:20 <lambdabot> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/index.html
23:40:32 <oerjan> @park
23:40:32 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
23:40:38 <shachaf> :t (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)
23:40:39 <lambdabot> (a -> a1 -> a2 -> b -> c) -> a -> a1 -> a2 -> (a3 -> b) -> a3 -> c
23:40:42 <shachaf> Hmm.
23:40:46 <shachaf> Foiled.
23:40:48 <oerjan> @pock
23:40:48 <lambdabot> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/index.html
23:40:56 <shachaf> look
23:40:58 <shachaf> i've figured it out already
23:41:27 <shachaf> @djinn Maybe a -> Maybe b -> Maybe (a,b)
23:41:28 <lambdabot> f a b =
23:41:28 <lambdabot> case a of
23:41:28 <lambdabot> Nothing -> Nothing
23:41:28 <lambdabot> Just c -> case b of
23:41:28 <lambdabot> Nothing -> Nothing
23:41:30 <lambdabot> Just d -> Just (c, d)
23:41:37 <shachaf> @djinn Maybe a -> Maybe b -> Maybe c -> Maybe ((a,b),c)
23:41:37 <lambdabot> f a b c =
23:41:37 <lambdabot> case a of
23:41:37 <lambdabot> Nothing -> Nothing
23:41:38 <lambdabot> Just d -> case b of
23:41:40 <lambdabot> Nothing -> Nothing
23:41:42 <lambdabot> Just e -> case c of
23:41:44 <lambdabot> Nothing -> Nothing
23:41:46 <lambdabot> Just f -> Just ((d, e), f)
23:41:49 <shachaf> OK, never mind.
23:41:55 <shachaf> It's @more
23:42:02 <oerjan> ooh
23:42:07 <shachaf> But I don't know how to make lambdabot say a bunch of text.
23:42:11 <shachaf> @wn work
23:42:12 <lambdabot> *** "work" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:42:12 <lambdabot> work
23:42:12 <lambdabot> n 1: activity directed toward making or doing something; "she
23:42:12 <lambdabot> checked several points needing further work"
23:42:12 <lambdabot> 2: a product produced or accomplished through the effort or
23:42:14 <lambdabot> [112 @more lines]
23:42:16 <shachaf> @work
23:42:16 <lambdabot> activity or agency of a person or thing; "it is not regarded
23:42:16 <oerjan> @wook
23:42:18 <lambdabot> as one of his more memorable works"; "the symphony was hailed
23:42:20 <lambdabot> as an ingenious work"; "he was indebted to the pioneering
23:42:22 <lambdabot> work of John Dewey"; "the work of an active imagination";
23:42:24 <lambdabot> "erosion is the work of wind or water over time" [syn:
23:42:26 <lambdabot> [107 @more lines]
23:42:28 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:42:28 <shachaf> Sorry for the spam.
23:42:29 <oerjan> argh
23:42:45 <shachaf> I mean, I intended to spam, just not that much.
23:42:45 <oerjan> @moor
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23:44:03 <oerjan> @list bork
23:44:03 <lambdabot> No module "bork" loaded
23:45:06 <oerjan> oh right
23:45:43 <oerjan> @nerk
23:45:43 <lambdabot> vera ........ V.E.R.A.: Virtual Entity of Relevant Acronyms
23:45:56 <oerjan> hm that is weird
23:46:02 <oerjan> @list vera
23:46:02 <lambdabot> dict provides: dict-help all-dicts bouvier cide devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon thesaurus vera wn world02
23:46:05 <oerjan> @list more
23:46:06 <lambdabot> more provides: more
23:46:09 <oerjan> oh wait
23:46:23 <oerjan> wrong baseline
23:46:49 <oerjan> @woke
23:46:49 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wiki vote more
23:46:52 <oerjan> finally
23:53:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Apparently, in the Harry Potter universe the Norwegian magic school teaches the Dark Arts as a class
23:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, it might be in Sweden; it pretty much just serves the whole of Scandinavia)
23:55:12 <oerjan> OKAY
2016-07-05
00:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( As far as we know, #esoteric is full of wizards... )
00:03:47 <oerjan> itym wiseasses hth
00:16:02 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: Dark wizards
00:16:29 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: omniscientasses?
00:24:33 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1]. -0.3 shachafs. -----###
00:24:52 <hppavilion[1]> Worth it.
00:25:00 <oerjan> note the negative sign hth
00:25:11 <oerjan> because that was an anti-pun.
00:25:39 <oerjan> afk
00:29:10 * hppavilion[1] deflects the swat with a meat thermometer 0|------>
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01:06:30 <moonythedwarf> anti-puns are for wimps, try a anti-anti-pun
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01:19:48 <oerjan> . o O ( evil idea: ban moon's non-nickname parts and then make ban exemptions only for moon@* and moon_@* )
01:20:42 <oerjan> or wait, is that moon_@* and moon__@*
01:20:44 -!- moon_ has changed nick to moon-moon.
01:20:53 <\oren\> dammit moon-moon
01:23:07 <\oren\> http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/534/248/7f5.jpg
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01:34:03 <shachaf> oerjan: Is that the same as 0.3 antishachafs?
01:34:41 <alercah> oerjan: doesn't freenode have a channel mode that prevents nick changes
01:35:01 <oerjan> shachaf: probably?
01:35:12 <shachaf> `welcome alercah
01:35:31 <oerjan> alercah: i don't remember, except that it's a side effect of banning
01:35:46 <HackEgo> alercah: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:35:56 <oerjan> alercah: also, it wasn't meant to apply to people _other_ than moon_ hth
01:36:30 <shachaf> I found out that Freenode lets you ban anyone who's banned in another channel.
01:36:42 <shachaf> I wonder whether that lets you get over the ban list length limit.
01:36:55 <oerjan> spiffy
01:36:57 <shachaf> They say it only works for one layer, i.e. $j: ignores $j:.
01:37:07 <alercah> shachaf: why doesn't someone make a channel that bans *!*@* then to make it useless?
01:37:24 <shachaf> I mean: In one channel you can ban $j:#other-channel
01:39:08 <alercah> ohh
01:41:56 <shachaf> oerjan: What's evil about that idea, anyway?
01:44:08 <oerjan> shachaf: it's mobbing
01:44:22 <shachaf> @wn mobbing?
01:44:23 <lambdabot> No match for "mobbing?".
01:44:24 <shachaf> oops
01:44:26 <shachaf> @wn mobbing
01:44:27 <lambdabot> No match for "mobbing".
01:44:44 <oerjan> i just checked on wikipedia that the word exists in english
01:44:47 <oerjan> hth
01:45:30 <shachaf> Ah.
01:45:40 <oerjan> "Shallcross, Ramsay and Barker consider workplace "mobbing" to be a generally unfamiliar term in some English speaking countries. Some researchers claim that mobbing is simply another name for bullying."
01:45:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
01:45:53 <oerjan> i suppose it's not that widespread.
01:45:57 <shachaf> Well, if it's up to me, changing your nick all the time would be universally banned.
01:46:02 <oerjan> it's the standard term in norwegian.
01:46:26 <shachaf> Multiple pseudonyms are fine, anonymity is fine, etc.
01:47:46 <alercah> `relcome shachaf
01:47:55 <shachaf> `tervetuloa alercah
01:48:01 <HackEgo> shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:48:02 <HackEgo> alercah: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.)
01:53:42 <oerjan> `cat bin/tervetuloa
01:53:44 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.fi"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.fi"; }
01:54:37 <shachaf> `h irc.dahl.net
01:54:38 <HackEgo> Can't open irc.dahl.net: No such file or directory.
01:54:41 <shachaf> `cat bin/h
01:54:42 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
01:55:08 <shachaf> oerjan: please fix h twh
01:55:22 <shachaf> (that would h)
01:57:24 <oerjan> `slwd welcome.fi//s,wiki/Main_page,,;s,kanav.*,kanavan #esoteric päälle EFnet tai Dalnet.),
01:57:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/welcome.fi//Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavan #esoteric päälle EFnet tai Dalnet.)
01:57:36 <oerjan> dammit
01:57:39 <oerjan> `revert
01:57:59 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:58:07 <oerjan> `slwd welcome.fi//s,wiki/Main_Page,,;s,kanav.*,kanavan #esoteric päälle EFnet tai Dalnet.),
01:58:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/welcome.fi//Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavan #esoteric päälle EFnet tai Dalnet.)
01:58:28 <shachaf> oerjan: since when do you speak finnish twh
02:00:03 <oerjan> shachaf: since never. also i just _knew_ i'd get trouble because yesterday script doesn't support that extra #! argument :(
02:00:11 <oerjan> *yesterday's
02:01:04 <oerjan> or wait hm
02:01:11 <oerjan> perl is special isn't it
02:01:58 <shachaf> oerjan: do you recommend joining a union
02:02:20 <oerjan> but not special enough.
02:02:35 <oerjan> shachaf: unions are already joins hth
02:02:55 <shachaf> have you met any union members
02:03:03 <shachaf> or is that against the rules
02:05:07 <oerjan> i don't remember anyone telling me if they were.
02:05:26 <oerjan> `` cat bin/has*
02:05:28 <HackEgo> cat: bin/has*: No such file or directory
02:05:46 <shachaf> perhaps you don't intersect them very often
02:05:51 <oerjan> `` ls bin/*input
02:05:55 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/shebang_args_or_input
02:06:11 <oerjan> `` cat bin/sheb*
02:06:12 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ interp="$1"; script="$2"; shift 2; if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi | "$interp" "$script"
02:06:25 <oerjan> shachaf: lattice drop the subject
02:07:08 <oerjan> ...
02:08:14 <oerjan> you can only have one shebang argument, right
02:08:40 <shachaf> yes
02:09:01 <oerjan> ok, there's an obvious, traditional solution here.
02:09:22 <oerjan> `cat bin/slashlearn
02:09:24 <HackEgo> sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "$verb «$key»"
02:10:08 <oerjan> (by traditional i mean insane)
02:10:49 <shachaf> wait, what are you going to do
02:10:57 <shachaf> is this the part where i close my eyes
02:11:02 <shachaf> and/or you close your nose
02:20:07 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input
02:20:11 <HackEgo> 2016-07-05 01:20:01 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input [133/133] -> "shebang_args_or_input" [1]
02:20:28 <oerjan> `` chmod +x she*; mv she* bin
02:20:33 <HackEgo> No output.
02:20:37 <oerjan> `rainbow testing
02:20:40 <HackEgo> testing
02:20:51 <shachaf> `cat bin/shebang_args_or_input
02:20:52 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ interp="$1"; script="$2"; shift 2; if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi | ${interp/"//"/ } "$script"
02:21:02 <shachaf> does that really require `fetch
02:21:13 <shachaf> wouldn't it be better to improve mk
02:21:38 <oerjan> shachaf: it requires `fetch because i tested it first hth
02:22:19 <oerjan> `sled bin/h//1c#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input perl//-p
02:22:25 <HackEgo> bin/h//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input perl//-p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
02:22:30 <oerjan> `h testing
02:22:31 <HackEgo> tehstihng
02:22:35 <oerjan> yw
02:22:41 <shachaf> oerjan: Of course, the motivation for // doesn't work here.
02:22:49 <shachaf> It only makes sense for paths.
02:22:55 <shachaf> The argument to perl isn't a path.
02:23:03 <shachaf> so now you need a way to escape // hth
02:23:05 <oerjan> shachaf: it works in that perl itself is a path
02:23:15 <oerjan> and also, it won't have more than one argument.
02:23:17 <shachaf> Well, sure.
02:23:24 <shachaf> But you could also just use space?
02:23:25 <oerjan> (assuming it's a converted shebang)
02:23:33 <oerjan> shachaf: how?
02:23:41 <shachaf> Maybe I'm missing something.
02:23:53 <shachaf> #!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input perl -p ?
02:24:04 <shachaf> Which would run it with the argument "perl -p"
02:24:09 <oerjan> would it?
02:24:20 <oerjan> i didn't think shebangs worked that way
02:24:25 <shachaf> `mkx tmp/sh//#!/bin/echo a b
02:24:26 <HackEgo> tmp/sh
02:24:29 <shachaf> `tmp/sh
02:24:31 <HackEgo> a b /hackenv/tmp/sh
02:24:32 <oerjan> it just ignores arguments other than the first
02:24:45 <shachaf> No, it just includes the space in the argument.
02:24:56 <shachaf> It doesn't have special treatment for spaces other than the first.
02:24:58 <oerjan> shachaf: that doesn't tell whether it split the arguments or not
02:25:01 <shachaf> I know.
02:25:25 <oerjan> i'm skeptical.
02:25:52 <oerjan> because if that were the case, the special treatment i've read that perl does makes no sense.
02:25:55 <shachaf> `mkx tmp/args//for a in "$@"; do echo -n "[$a]"; done
02:25:57 <HackEgo> tmp/args
02:26:09 <shachaf> `mkx tmp/sh//#!/hackenv/tmp/args a b
02:26:12 <HackEgo> tmp/sh
02:26:16 <shachaf> `tmp/sh
02:26:18 <HackEgo> No output.
02:27:00 <oerjan> `sled tmp/args//1i#!/bin/bash
02:27:03 <HackEgo> tmp/args//#!/bin/bash \ for a in "$@"; do echo -n "[$a]"; done
02:27:09 <oerjan> `tmp/sh
02:27:09 <shachaf> yes, that
02:27:11 <HackEgo> ​[a b][/hackenv/tmp/sh]
02:27:19 <oerjan> hm you're apparently right
02:27:22 <shachaf> What special treatment were *you* thinking of?
02:27:36 <shachaf> I thought you meant that even if you run "perl file.pl", it'll read the perl arguments from the #! line.
02:27:55 <oerjan> shachaf: i've read that perl checks the first line
02:28:10 <shachaf> So have I.
02:28:12 <oerjan> and i also read that it was because shebangs can only take one argument.
02:28:16 <shachaf> The way I described it.
02:28:30 <oerjan> anyway, you've showed that my way is overkill, so...
02:28:38 <shachaf> oh no
02:28:45 <shachaf> you wouldn't want anything overkill in HackEgo
02:29:05 <shachaf> Maybe perl has a special case where it splits the #! argument on spaces or something.
02:29:15 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input
02:29:19 <HackEgo> 2016-07-05 01:29:09 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input [124/124] -> "shebang_args_or_input" [1]
02:29:25 <oerjan> `` chmod +x she*; mv she* bin
02:29:30 <HackEgo> No output.
02:29:33 <oerjan> `rainbow testing
02:29:36 <HackEgo> testing
02:29:49 <oerjan> `sled bin/h//s,//, ,
02:29:51 <HackEgo> bin/h//#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
02:29:56 <oerjan> `h testing
02:29:57 <HackEgo> tehstihng
02:30:04 <oerjan> excellent
02:30:08 <shachaf> But now you can't h a file anymore.
02:30:17 <oerjan> oh.
02:30:19 <shachaf> That used to work until you changed it.
02:30:28 <shachaf> `h changed
02:30:29 <HackEgo> chahngehd
02:30:36 <shachaf> `h pooch
02:30:37 <HackEgo> poohch
02:30:55 <oerjan> shachaf: well duh, don't ask me to fix things without telling me that
02:31:04 <shachaf> `h doctrine
02:31:05 <HackEgo> dohctrihne
02:31:34 <oerjan> _obviously_ a script cannot support both raw text on command line and filenames, duh
02:31:45 <shachaf> what if you treated it as a path if it contained //
02:32:15 <oerjan> i don't think so. there's nothing that cannot be in a raw text line. it would be illogical.
02:32:23 <alercah> whoa, the Guardian is doing a series of specials on Canada this week
02:32:30 <shachaf> anyway your job now is to find nifty ways to give monoidal structure to the category of hask endofunctors twh
02:32:38 <shachaf> i know of five ways
02:32:43 <shachaf> can you think of another one
02:34:39 <oerjan> hm...
02:35:24 <alercah> oerjan: I don't think it's obvious hth
02:35:52 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, Canada?
02:35:54 <oerjan> alercah: well, it cannot support filenames from the hackego `command style.
02:36:07 <shachaf> i heard Canada celebrated the 4th of july three days early
02:36:17 <shachaf> `tmp/args abc
02:36:19 <HackEgo> ​[ abc]
02:36:30 <shachaf> `tmp/args
02:36:31 <HackEgo> No output.
02:36:43 <oerjan> i _could_ make it work in a script with a flag.
02:37:12 <oerjan> so that h -f ... worked
02:37:19 <oerjan> or h -- ...
02:37:54 <shachaf> You would want to make both of them work.
02:38:04 <shachaf> So that you could h -- -f if you wanted to h the string -f
02:40:25 <alercah> oerjan: why not
02:40:42 <alercah> oerjan: escape characters exist
02:42:35 <shachaf> Escaping is one of the biggest scows in computer science.
02:43:06 <alercah> here's a silly example
02:43:27 <alercah> actually no i've better things to do
02:43:48 <oerjan> alercah: well by "supporting raw text" i mean supporting _all_ raw text that can be given on the HackEgo command line.
02:44:22 <oerjan> shachaf: no, that would just be h -f
02:44:32 <alercah> I think you are constraining yourself so as to deliberately make your problem impossible hth
02:44:39 <oerjan> shachaf: the test wouldn't be for a flag, but for having more than one argument.
02:44:59 <oerjan> alercah: i think you don't understand the spirit of HackEgo programming.
02:45:20 <oerjan> alercah: note that the HackEgo command line is _not_ a shell command line.
02:46:09 <oerjan> shachaf: in fact it could ignore what the first argument was. not sure if that's a good idea.
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03:11:20 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input
03:11:23 <HackEgo> 2016-07-05 02:11:13 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input [141/141] -> "shebang_args_or_input" [1]
03:11:30 <oerjan> `` chmod +x she*; mv she* bin
03:11:38 <HackEgo> No output.
03:11:42 <oerjan> `h testing
03:11:42 <HackEgo> tehstihng
03:11:51 <oerjan> `h -- testing
03:11:52 <HackEgo> ​-- tehstihng
03:11:53 <oerjan> `ls
03:11:55 <HackEgo> ​!\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
03:11:59 <hppavilion[1]> #!
03:12:08 <oerjan> `` h -- wisdom/oerjan
03:12:21 <oerjan> gah
03:12:25 <oerjan> oh
03:12:25 <Sgeo__> Congrats ais523!
03:12:29 <Sgeo__> Gah he's not here
03:12:39 <HackEgo> No output.
03:12:41 <oerjan> `` h -- wisdom/oerjan </dev/null
03:12:42 <HackEgo> Youhr myhstehriouhs ahrtihclehd cahcklihng zohmbie uhndehrlohrd kohmmihsjohnær ehmehrihtuhs oehrjahn ihs a lahzy ehxpehrt ihn fuhtuhre cohmpuhtahtiohn. Ahlso a Prehcahmbriahn Nohrwehgiahn who mihldly dihslihkehs Roahld Dahhl wihth a pahsjohn. Lahtehly whehn he triehs to rehmehmbehr a wohrd, "ahmohrtihzehd" pohps uhp. Hihs ahrch-nehmehsihs ihs Beht
03:13:19 <oerjan> ok a minor flaw, it will cat the input even if the command doesn't use it. hm.
03:13:57 <lifthrasiir> is it possible for `h` to make `sit` into a swear word
03:14:06 <oerjan> i don't think so
03:14:15 <oerjan> it only adds it after vowels.
03:14:23 <lifthrasiir> siht.
03:14:44 <oerjan> `` rainbow -- wisdom/oerjan
03:14:50 <oerjan> argh
03:14:57 <oerjan> ok, this is somewhat inconvenient.
03:15:14 <HackEgo> No output.
03:21:20 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input
03:21:24 <HackEgo> 2016-07-05 02:21:14 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/shebang_args_or_input [162/162] -> "shebang_args_or_input" [1]
03:21:26 <oerjan> `` chmod +x she*; mv she* bin
03:21:30 <HackEgo> No output.
03:21:39 <oerjan> `` h -- wisdom/oerjan
03:21:40 <HackEgo> Youhr myhstehriouhs ahrtihclehd cahcklihng zohmbie uhndehrlohrd kohmmihsjohnær ehmehrihtuhs oehrjahn ihs a lahzy ehxpehrt ihn fuhtuhre cohmpuhtahtiohn. Ahlso a Prehcahmbriahn Nohrwehgiahn who mihldly dihslihkehs Roahld Dahhl wihth a pahsjohn. Lahtehly whehn he triehs to rehmehmbehr a wohrd, "ahmohrtihzehd" pohps uhp. Hihs ahrch-nehmehsihs ihs Beht
03:21:46 <oerjan> `` h wisdom/oerjan
03:21:48 <HackEgo> wihsdohm/oehrjahn
03:21:58 <oerjan> `h wisdom/oerjan
03:21:59 <HackEgo> wihsdohm/oehrjahn
03:22:12 <oerjan> `` \? oerjan | h
03:22:16 <HackEgo> Youhr myhstehriouhs ahrtihclehd cahcklihng zohmbie uhndehrlohrd kohmmihsjohnær ehmehrihtuhs oehrjahn ihs a lahzy ehxpehrt ihn fuhtuhre cohmpuhtahtiohn. Ahlso a Prehcahmbriahn Nohrwehgiahn who mihldly dihslihkehs Roahld Dahhl wihth a pahsjohn. Lahtehly whehn he triehs to rehmehmbehr a wohrd, "ahmohrtihzehd" pohps uhp. Hihs ahrch-nehmehsihs ihs Beht
03:22:44 <oerjan> shachaf: ok now it can be used in 3 different ways.
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03:32:28 <lifthrasiir> `` echo oops | h | h
03:32:31 <HackEgo> oohhps
03:32:54 <lifthrasiir> `` echo oops | xxd | h | h
03:32:59 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6f6f 7073 0a oohhps.
03:33:13 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:34:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:34:47 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:35:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:35:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:36:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit).
03:38:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:40:50 <oerjan> huh there you are.
03:41:32 <oerjan> tmux starts, and opens programs, but does not seem to show me the session
03:42:51 <oerjan> needed to use ^B) to get to it
03:43:14 <oerjan> now food ->
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03:59:18 <\oren\> `rainbow qwertyuiopasdfghjkl
03:59:32 <HackEgo> qwertyuiopasdfghjkl
04:00:04 <\oren\> i am not sure that putting the colors in a rondom order is a good "rainbow"
04:01:10 <lifthrasiir> isn't the fixed sequential order better
04:01:53 <\oren\> it should do red yellow green cyan blue magenta
04:02:00 <\oren\> and repeat
04:02:17 <\oren\> there isn't gray in a rainbow
04:03:52 <\oren\> `` tcc -v
04:03:55 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: tcc: command not found
04:03:58 <\oren\> bah
04:04:10 <\oren\> `` cc -v
04:04:17 <HackEgo> ​<stdin>:1:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘-’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
04:04:23 <\oren\> wtf
04:04:37 <\oren\> `` gcc -v
04:04:39 <HackEgo> Using built-in specs. \ COLLECT_GCC=gcc \ COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/lto-wrapper \ Target: x86_64-linux-gnu \ Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion='Debian 4.7.2-5' --with-bugurl=file:///usr/share/doc/gcc-4.7/README.Bugs --enable-languages=c,c++,go,fortran,objc,obj-c++ --prefix=/usr --program-suffix=-4.7
04:04:42 <\oren\> aha
04:05:43 <\oren\> brb making a better rainbow
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04:24:15 <oerjan> \oren\: rainwords does them in order, rainbow is different for traditional reasons.
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04:25:15 <hppavilion[1]> If thou gaze long into /dev/null...
04:25:21 <hppavilion[1]> `? /dev/null
04:25:27 <oerjan> `? tradition
04:26:04 <HackEgo> tradition? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:26:05 <HackEgo> No output.
04:26:16 <alercah> is it allowed to eat a scow at a shindig?
04:26:40 <hppavilion[1]> `? sbeef
04:26:47 <HackEgo> sbeef? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:27:17 <\oren\> `` cat >orenbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n''int main(){int a,c=1;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&192))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]);putchar(a);c=c+1-6*(c>4);goto b;}'
04:27:26 <hppavilion[1]> `learn sbeef is the culinary name for meat from scow
04:27:38 <HackEgo> No output.
04:28:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'sbeef': sbeef is the culinary name for meat from scow
04:28:16 <\oren\> `` gcc orenbow.c -o orenbow
04:28:21 <oerjan> \oren\: using c means it cannot use my wrapper script :(
04:29:00 <oerjan> not directly, anyway.
04:29:00 <hppavilion[1]> But what is the name for a scut of sbeef generally sliced perpendicular to the smuscle fibers? ssteak?
04:29:00 <HackEgo> No output.
04:29:24 <\oren\> `orenbow foobar
04:29:31 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: orenbow: not found
04:30:04 <\oren\> `` orenbow <<<"foobars"
04:30:19 <hppavilion[1]> Has anybody gotten a bot running on HackEgo?
04:30:20 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: orenbow: command not found
04:30:26 <\oren\> `` ./orenbow <<<"foobars"
04:30:29 <oerjan> shachaf: the problem with doing work on HackEgo is that it inspires others to do misguided experiments :(
04:30:38 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: ./orenbow: No such file or directory
04:31:44 <\oren\> `` mv orenbow bin
04:32:00 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `orenbow': No such file or directory
04:32:17 <hppavilion[1]> `` grep -rnw '/wisdom' -e "cow"
04:32:29 <HackEgo> grep: /wisdom: No such file or directory
04:32:31 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
04:32:34 <hppavilion[1]> `ls
04:32:35 <\oren\> `` ls orenbow.c
04:33:23 <HackEgo> ​!\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ orenbow.c \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
04:33:24 <HackEgo> orenbow.c
04:33:42 <\oren\> `` gcc orenbow.c -o orenbow; ls orenbow
04:34:06 <oerjan> hm...
04:34:12 <oerjan> `cat orenbow.c
04:34:12 <hppavilion[1]> `` grep -r './wisdom' -e "cow"
04:34:15 <HackEgo> orenbow
04:34:25 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=1;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&192))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]);putchar(a);c=c+1-6*(c>4);goto b;}
04:34:25 <oerjan> sooo slooooooo
04:34:33 <HackEgo> ​./wisdom/sbeef:sbeef is the culinary name for meat from scow \ ./wisdom/cow:A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees. \ ./wisdom/scow:Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
04:34:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Correct, and it's my job to worsen it
04:34:44 <\oren\> `` mv orenbow bin
04:34:48 <HackEgo> No output.
04:34:48 <oerjan> hm my suspicion was wrong.
04:35:04 <\oren\> `` orenbow <<<"hello world"
04:35:06 <HackEgo> ​[33;1mh[32;1me[36;1ml[34;1ml[35;1mo[31;1m [33;1mw[32;1mo[36;1mr[34;1ml[35;1md[31;1m
04:35:07 <oerjan> i guess the first gcc just timed out.
04:35:10 * hppavilion[1] is chief of botslowenning
04:35:30 <\oren\> `` orenbow <<<"1234567890"
04:35:32 <HackEgo> ​[33;1m1[32;1m2[36;1m3[34;1m4[35;1m5[31;1m6[33;1m7[32;1m8[36;1m9[34;1m0[35;1m
04:35:37 <oerjan> hm ...
04:35:42 * oerjan has an idea
04:35:46 <hppavilion[1]> `? graham's number
04:35:48 <HackEgo> graham's number? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:35:53 <hppavilion[1]> `? g64
04:35:55 <HackEgo> g64? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:35:59 <oerjan> `` ls bin/rainb*
04:36:02 <HackEgo> bin/rainbow
04:36:13 <oerjan> `` mv bin/rainbow{,.old}
04:36:19 <HackEgo> No output.
04:36:28 <\oren\> `le/rn graham's number/graham's number isn't as delicious as his crackers.
04:36:33 <HackEgo> Learned «graham's number»
04:37:51 <oerjan> hm wait this won't work
04:37:54 <oerjan> *sigh*
04:37:58 <oerjan> oh
04:38:00 <oerjan> anyway
04:38:24 <oerjan> `mkx bin/rainbow//print_args_or_input "$@" | orenbow
04:38:28 <HackEgo> bin/rainbow
04:38:33 <oerjan> `rainbow testing
04:38:34 <HackEgo> ​[33;1mt[32;1me[36;1ms[34;1mt[35;1mi[31;1mn[33;1mg[32;1m
04:39:04 <\oren\> I wrote it in the finest horrible C.
04:39:27 <shachaf> oerjan: What's the misguided experiment?
04:39:32 <oerjan> `` cp orenbow.c src
04:39:40 <HackEgo> No output.
04:39:44 <oerjan> shachaf: i changed my opinion a bit.
04:39:56 <\oren\> `rainbow でもウニコードを出来る
04:39:58 <HackEgo> ​[33;1mã[32;1m[36;1m§[34;1mã[35;1m‚[31;1m‚[33;1mã[32;1m‚[36;1m¦[34;1mã[35;1mƒ[31;1m‹[33;1mã[32;1m‚[36;1m³[34;1mã[35;1mƒ[31;1m¼[33;1mã[32;1mƒ[36;1m‰[34;1mã[35;1m‚[31;1m’[33;1må[32;1m‡[36;1mº[34;1mæ[35;1m[31;1m¥[33;1mã[32;1m‚[36;1m‹[34;1m
04:40:03 <\oren\> EHHHHH
04:40:35 <\oren\> I totally thought that would work
04:41:04 <oerjan> \oren\: you'll need some utf-8 handling
04:41:25 <oerjan> only put it in front of initial bytes, or something
04:41:32 <\oren\> it has that, but it's not working
04:41:36 <oerjan> oh
04:41:38 <oerjan> lessee
04:41:57 <oerjan> `rainbow Ørjan
04:42:05 <HackEgo> ​[33;1mÃ[32;1m˜[36;1mr[34;1mj[35;1ma[31;1mn[33;1m
04:42:08 <\oren\> `` cat orenbow.c
04:42:10 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=1;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&192))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]);putchar(a);c=c+1-6*(c>4);goto b;}
04:42:23 <\oren\> if(!(a&128)||(a&192))
04:42:24 <oerjan> wrong test maybe?
04:43:03 <\oren\> if the upper bit is clear, or the upper two bits are set...
04:43:36 * oerjan doesn't remember which is which
04:43:43 <oerjan> ^ord Ø
04:43:43 <fungot> 195 152
04:45:03 <oerjan> ^ord でも
04:45:03 <fungot> 227 129 167 227 130 130
04:45:14 <oerjan> looks plausible
04:46:59 <oerjan> `! c int a=227; printf("%d\n",!(a&128)||(a&192));
04:47:14 <oerjan> will that even finish these days.
04:47:17 <HackEgo> Does not compile.
04:47:23 <oerjan> argh
04:48:01 <oerjan> `! c int main () { int a=227; printf("%d\n",!(a&128)||(a&192)); }
04:48:09 <HackEgo> Does not compile.
04:48:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
04:48:39 * oerjan has no idea what he's doin ... oh.
04:48:58 <hppavilion[1]> That moment when you open a Wikipedia citation for more information and it's completely unrelated
04:49:05 <oerjan> `! c #include <stdio.h>\nint main () { int a=227; printf("%d\n",!(a&128)||(a&192)); }
04:49:15 <oerjan> oh wait
04:49:16 <HackEgo> No output.
04:49:22 <hppavilion[1]> "Hundreds attended his funeral[1]"
04:49:24 <hppavilion[1]> [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
04:49:25 <oerjan> `! c int main () { int a=227; printf("%d\\n",!(a&128)||(a&192)); }
04:49:34 <HackEgo> 1
04:49:47 <oerjan> `! c int main () { int a=129; printf("%d\\n",!(a&128)||(a&192)); }
04:49:55 <HackEgo> 1
04:50:05 <oerjan> oh that doesn't look good
04:50:45 <\oren\> `! c int main () { int a=129; printf("%d\\n",a&192); }
04:50:51 <HackEgo> 128
04:50:59 <\oren\> OH FUCK
04:51:13 <\oren\> i'm an idiot
04:51:47 <oerjan> i'm not sure why it matters that it's not 0 or 1
04:51:52 <oerjan> oh
04:51:54 <oerjan> duh :P
04:52:04 <\oren\> `! c int main () { int a=129; printf("%d\\n",!(a&192)-192); }
04:52:08 <HackEgo> ​-192
04:52:21 <\oren\> ok good I can fix it in place
04:52:29 <oerjan> \oren\: just s/192/64/, i think.
04:52:56 <oerjan> because the other test ensures if you get there, the highest bit is set.
04:53:06 <\oren\> yeah
04:53:32 <oerjan> `slwd graham's number//s,.,G,
04:53:38 <HackEgo> wisdom/graham's number//Graham's number isn't as delicious as his crackers.
04:54:09 <shachaf> `` culprits "$(lastfiles)"
04:54:24 <HackEgo> oerjan oren
04:54:53 <\oren\> `` sed -i '' -e 's/192/64/' orenbow.c
04:54:58 <HackEgo> sed: can't read : No such file or directory
04:55:45 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/192/64/' -i orenbow.c
04:55:48 <HackEgo> No output.
04:55:56 <\oren\> `` cat orenbow.c
04:55:59 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=1;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]);putchar(a);c=c+1-6*(c>4);goto b;}
04:57:12 <oerjan> `` cp orenbow.c src
04:57:17 <HackEgo> No output.
04:58:09 <\oren\> `` gcc orenbow.c -o orenbow; ls orenbow
04:58:31 <HackEgo> orenbow
04:58:48 <\oren\> `` mv orenbow bin
04:58:52 <HackEgo> No output.
04:58:59 <\oren\> `rainbow でもウニコードを出来る
04:59:00 <HackEgo> ​[33;1mで[34;1mも[33;1mウ[34;1mニ[33;1mコ[34;1mー[33;1mド[34;1mを[33;1m出[34;1m来[33;1mる[34;1m
04:59:05 <\oren\> uhhhh
04:59:17 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/;putchar\(a\);/,/' -i orenbow.c
04:59:20 <HackEgo> No output.
04:59:27 <shachaf> Why are you just putting everything in the root directory?
05:00:16 <\oren\> `` cat orenbow.c
05:00:18 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=1;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]);putchar(a);c=c+1-6*(c>4);goto b;}
05:00:26 <hppavilion[1]> Remember: There will come a day when rickrolling is no longer effective
05:00:30 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/;putchar(a);/,/' -i orenbow.c
05:00:35 <HackEgo> No output.
05:00:48 <oerjan> l/rn2sled
05:01:17 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/>4);/>4);putchar(a);/' -i orenbow.c
05:01:22 <HackEgo> No output.
05:01:25 <\oren\> `` cat orenbow.c
05:01:27 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=1;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]),c=c+1-6*(c>4);putchar(a);goto b;}
05:01:33 <shachaf> `ls src
05:01:34 <HackEgo> 99.sh \ bf \ bob.c \ brainfuck.fu \ c \ ciol \ ciol.c \ daoyu.c \ egobot.tar.xz \ emmental.hs \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ fizziecoin.jpg \ fueue.c \ grph.c \ hello2.c \ hello.c \ maze.c \ orenbow.c \ ploki \ ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 \ u8tbl.c \ ul.emm
05:01:36 <shachaf> Put source in src/
05:01:46 <\oren\> `` gcc orenbow.c -o orenbow; ls orenbow;
05:01:46 <shachaf> Everything you do is recorded in version control forever.
05:01:53 <shachaf> `` mv orenbow.c src/
05:01:59 <HackEgo> orenbow
05:02:04 <HackEgo> No output.
05:02:12 <\oren\> `` mv orenbow bin
05:02:17 <HackEgo> No output.
05:02:18 <\oren\> `rainbow でもウニコードを出来る
05:02:20 <HackEgo> ​[33;1mで[32;1mも[36;1mウ[34;1mニ[35;1mコ[31;1mー[33;1mド[32;1mを[36;1m出[34;1m来[35;1mる[31;1m
05:02:23 <\oren\> YAY
05:03:02 <shachaf> Wait, you're not even using IRC colors.
05:03:14 <oerjan> those did look a bit strange
05:03:16 <\oren\> `rainbow 本当にウニコードを虹色出来る
05:03:18 <HackEgo> ​[33;1m本[32;1m当[36;1mに[34;1mウ[35;1mニ[31;1mコ[33;1mー[32;1mド[36;1mを[34;1m虹[35;1m色[31;1m出[33;1m来[32;1mる[36;1m
05:04:18 <shachaf> Also your UTF-8 handling is wrong.
05:04:24 <oerjan> in any case, why aren't you starting with red
05:04:31 <oerjan> shachaf: is it?
05:04:40 <shachaf> Oh, maybe it isn't.
05:04:45 <oerjan> i thought we just fixed that.
05:04:50 <\oren\> my list of colors is the string "\37! $\"#" feel free to reorder it
05:05:00 <shachaf> Hmm, I guess it works for valid UTF-8.
05:05:06 <pikhq> It's a bit hackish, but it'll work with any valid UTF-8.
05:06:04 <\oren\> or you can change c=1 to c=0
05:06:09 <\oren\> or something
05:06:15 <oerjan> yeah
05:06:34 <tswett> Hey everyone, māke sure not to get caught off-guard bȳ thē new macron rūle.
05:06:35 <tswett> `? macron
05:06:39 <HackEgo> ​Ā macron is what you put ōver ā long vowel in order to mark it as ā long vowel. Macrons will bēcome mandatory in English on Octōber 14, 2016.
05:06:48 <oerjan> `sled bin/orenbow.c//s,c=1,c=0,
05:06:49 <HackEgo> Rosebud!
05:06:57 <oerjan> er
05:07:02 <oerjan> `sled src/orenbow.c//s,c=1,c=0,
05:07:07 <shachaf> that's not how c works hth
05:07:07 <HackEgo> src/orenbow.c//#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=0;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]),c=c+1-6*(c>4);putchar(a);goto b;}
05:07:12 <shachaf> But why is that program even written in C?
05:07:16 <pikhq> I'm afraid I'm still on an old version of English. I spell it "coöperate", and as such will not be coöperating with you.
05:07:26 <oerjan> `` gcc src/orenbow.c -o bin/orenbow
05:07:40 <HackEgo> No output.
05:07:49 <oerjan> `rainbow 本当にウニコードを虹色出来る
05:07:50 <HackEgo> ​[31;1m本[33;1m当[32;1mに[36;1mウ[34;1mニ[35;1mコ[31;1mー[33;1mド[32;1mを[36;1m虹[34;1m色[35;1m出[31;1m来[33;1mる[32;1m
05:07:53 <oerjan> there
05:07:56 <\oren\> shachaf: because i like c
05:08:04 <shachaf> But you need to compile it.
05:08:05 <tswett> pikhq: "cōöperāte" hth?
05:08:12 <pikhq> tswett: :(
05:08:20 <tswett> `? cooperate
05:08:21 <HackEgo> cooperate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:08:32 <tswett> `learn "Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte".
05:08:36 <HackEgo> Learned '"cooperate"': "Cooperate" is a common misspelling of "cōöperāte".
05:08:41 <tswett> Nonono.
05:08:50 <\oren\> shachaf: also it means poor hackego doesn't have to fire up another interpreter program adding to its abysmal response time
05:09:01 <tswett> `run mv -v wisdom/{'"cooperate"',cooperate}
05:09:05 <HackEgo> ​`wisdom/"cooperate"' -> `wisdom/cooperate'
05:09:36 <shachaf> Running a Python interpreter isn't what makes HackEgo slow.
05:09:50 <oerjan> tswett: since when does "a" have a long vowel
05:10:01 <\oren\> `` wc bin/orenbow
05:10:03 <HackEgo> ​ 26 85 7149 bin/orenbow
05:10:19 <\oren\> wow that's pretty big
05:10:41 <\oren\> i guess it does include printf
05:12:35 <\oren\> oerjan: it depends on Du cAdens uv Du spEkR
05:12:36 <pikhq> I don't think you're static linking it, so no it doesn't.
05:12:47 <pikhq> However, it will have debug info.
05:12:53 <\oren\> oh.
05:12:55 <\oren\> right.
05:12:58 <pikhq> `` gcc src/orenbow.c -Os -g -o bin/orenbow
05:12:58 <shachaf> `gcc -o tmp/orenbow src/orenbow.c
05:13:11 <shachaf> pikhq: You're adding -g?
05:13:11 <HackEgo> gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated.
05:13:13 <pikhq> `` wc bin/orenbow
05:13:18 <pikhq> shachaf: Derp
05:13:23 <pikhq> `` gcc src/orenbow.c -Os -s -o bin/orenbow
05:13:39 <HackEgo> No output.
05:13:43 <HackEgo> ​ 2 61 4696 bin/orenbow
05:13:50 <HackEgo> No output.
05:13:59 <shachaf> That's a lotta bytes.
05:14:06 <\oren\> `` wc bin/orenbow
05:14:07 <shachaf> You should write it in x86 assembly instead.
05:14:09 <HackEgo> ​ 9 137 9037 bin/orenbow
05:14:10 <shachaf> `` uname -r
05:14:11 <HackEgo> 3.13.0-umlbox
05:14:26 <shachaf> `` uname -a
05:14:27 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
05:15:33 <shachaf> `cat src/orenbow.c
05:15:35 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){int a,c=0;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%d;1m","\37! $\"#"[c]),c=c+1-6*(c>4);putchar(a);goto b;}
05:17:17 <\oren\> i suppose at the machine level it would be fastest to call write() directly
05:17:28 <pikhq> Not necessarily.
05:17:41 <pikhq> Well, unless you do buffering similar to what stdio does.
05:17:59 <\oren\> oh right
05:18:29 <shachaf> Being fastest has nothing to do with any of it.
05:18:56 <\oren\> wait what hppened back there? the one with -g was smaller than the one with -s!!!
05:19:44 <pikhq> I think we had some racing going on.
05:20:19 <pikhq> `` gcc src/orenbow.c -Os -s -o bin/orenbow
05:20:24 <\oren\> Hackego is multithreaded? oh, that's marvelous
05:20:32 <\oren\> not
05:20:34 <HackEgo> No output.
05:20:35 <pikhq> `` wc bin/orenbow
05:20:38 <HackEgo> ​ 2 61 4696 bin/orenbow
05:21:50 <\oren\> `rainbow well, at least the colors of the rainbow are back in harmony
05:21:52 <HackEgo> ​[31;1mw[33;1me[32;1ml[36;1ml[34;1m,[35;1m [31;1ma[33;1mt[32;1m [36;1ml[34;1me[35;1ma[31;1ms[33;1mt[32;1m [36;1mt[34;1mh[35;1me[31;1m [33;1mc[32;1mo[36;1ml[34;1mo[35;1mr[31;1ms[33;1m [32;1mo[36;1mf[34;1m [35;1mt[31;1mh[33;1me[32;1m [36;1mr[34;1ma[35;1mi[31;1mn[33;1mb[32;1mo[36;1mw[34;1m [35;1ma[31;1mr[3
05:21:57 <\oren\> wut
05:22:11 <\oren\> oh, length limit
05:22:45 <shachaf> You should use IRC colors. Probably more compact.
05:22:51 <pikhq> Agreed.
05:22:52 <shachaf> well, at least the colors of the rainbow are back in harmony
05:23:20 <\oren\> hmm *googles irc colors*
05:23:36 <oerjan> oh righ hm
05:23:42 <oerjan> `cat bin/rainbow.old
05:23:44 <HackEgo> ​#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p)
05:24:03 <pikhq> Lemme go tinker with things.
05:24:06 <oerjan> the old one took care of the limit.
05:25:28 <\oren\> hmm well there is some length optimization that can be dome
05:25:32 <\oren\> *done
05:26:00 <oerjan> as in, it doesn't add more than there's room for.
05:26:23 <oerjan> otoh i don't think it was utf-8 clean.
05:26:51 <shachaf> `` echo 本当にウニコードを虹色出来る | bin/rainbow.old
05:26:54 <HackEgo> ​本当にウニコードを虹色出来る
05:27:03 <shachaf> Did \oren\ just trick me into saying something really rude in Japanese?
05:27:19 <pikhq> shachaf: No.
05:27:24 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/{/{printf("\e[1m");/' -i orenbow.c
05:27:25 <HackEgo> sed: can't read orenbow.c: No such file or directory
05:27:42 <shachaf> Why don't you use sled?
05:27:45 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/{/{printf("\e[1m");/' -i src/orenbow.c
05:27:50 <HackEgo> No output.
05:27:53 <pikhq> shachaf: It's slightly butchered, but I think it's supposed to be "I can really do rainbow-colored Unicode".
05:27:57 <\oren\> shachaf: no idea how
05:28:32 <lifthrasiir> shachaf: isn't that Unicode ユニコード
05:28:39 <lifthrasiir> s/that//
05:28:44 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/;1m/m/' -i src/orenbow.c
05:28:47 <lifthrasiir> ウニコード is more like Woonicode
05:28:48 <HackEgo> No output.
05:29:04 <\oren\> yeah I messed that up
05:29:31 <\oren\> `` cat src/orenbow.c
05:29:33 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){printf("e[1m");int a,c=0;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%dm","\37! $\"#"[c]),c=c+1-6*(c>4);putchar(a);goto b;}
05:29:54 <tswett> oerjan: since whenever you empasīze it.
05:30:15 <oerjan> tswett: but usually you don't.
05:30:28 <tswett> That's trūe.
05:30:31 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/e[/\\e[/' -i src/orenbow.c
05:30:35 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unterminated `s' command
05:30:45 <\oren\> `` sed -e 's/e\[/\\e\[/' -i src/orenbow.c
05:30:51 <HackEgo> No output.
05:30:54 <\oren\> `` cat src/orenbow.c
05:30:56 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){printf("\e[1m");int a,c=0;b:a=getchar();if(a==EOF)return 0;if(!(a&128)||(a&64))printf("\e[%dm","\37! $\"#"[c]),c=c+1-6*(c>4);putchar(a);goto b;}
05:30:56 <oerjan> `? sled
05:31:00 <HackEgo> sled? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:31:02 <pikhq> Lemme try this out...
05:31:20 <tswett> Wē'll have to let consensus figure out whether or not "a" is to bē macronned.
05:31:21 <\oren\> there that should reduce the output length some
05:31:45 <shachaf> I thought you were going to reduce binary size.
05:31:46 <tswett> Since, y'know, Ī'm sure that mȳ macron convention will tāke off.
05:31:56 <tswett> `loudly 本当にウニコードを虹色出来る
05:31:58 <HackEgo>
05:32:12 <tswett> `loudly I wasn't expecting that to work.
05:32:15 <HackEgo> I wasn't expecting that to work.
05:32:27 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\\n''#include <wchar.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%2d%s%lc", c==L','?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}'
05:32:35 <HackEgo> No output.
05:33:09 <pikhq> hth
05:33:36 <pikhq> Grumble, doesn't work, w/e
05:33:42 <oerjan> `learn sled <filename>//<sed script>
05:33:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'sled': sled <filename>//<sed script>
05:34:08 <\oren\> `` gcc src/orenbow.c -o bin/orenbow
05:34:15 <oerjan> hm
05:34:21 <HackEgo> No output.
05:34:29 <oerjan> `le/rn sled/`sled <filename>//<sed script>
05:34:30 <\oren\> `rainbow well, at least the colors of the rainbow are back in harmony
05:34:32 <HackEgo> Relearned «sled»
05:34:33 <HackEgo> ​[1m[31mw[33me[32ml[36ml[34m,[35m [31ma[33mt[32m [36ml[34me[35ma[31ms[33mt[32m [36mt[34mh[35me[31m [33mc[32mo[36ml[34mo[35mr[31ms[33m [32mo[36mf[34m [35mt[31mh[33me[32m [36mr[34ma[35mi[31mn[33mb[32mo[36mw[34m [35ma[31mr[33me[32m [36mb[34ma[35mc[31mk[33m [32mi[36mn[34m [35mh[31ma[33mr[32mm
05:34:38 <\oren\> better
05:34:51 <pikhq> Oh, helps if you don't fuck it up.
05:35:12 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\\n''#include <wchar.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L','?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}'
05:35:18 <HackEgo> No output.
05:35:25 <pikhq> `` gcc src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
05:35:31 <HackEgo> src/pikhqbow.c:1:19: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default] \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
05:35:41 <pikhq> :/
05:36:11 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n''#include <wchar.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L','?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}'
05:36:15 <HackEgo> No output.
05:36:17 <pikhq> `` gcc src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
05:36:21 <HackEgo> src/pikhqbow.c:2:19: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default] \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
05:36:31 <pikhq> `` cat src/pikhqbow.c
05:36:33 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ #include <wchar.h>\nint main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L,?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}
05:37:44 <\oren\> your second include line is in '' and not $''
05:37:54 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n#include <wchar.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L','?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}'
05:37:58 <HackEgo> No output.
05:38:04 <pikhq> `` gcc src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
05:38:09 <HackEgo> src/pikhqbow.c: In function ‘main’: \ src/pikhqbow.c:3:95: error: ‘L’ undeclared (first use in this function) \ src/pikhqbow.c:3:95: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in \ src/pikhqbow.c:3:97: error: expected expression before ‘?’ token
05:38:21 <pikhq> ... That got pasted wrong or something.
05:38:28 <pikhq> Oh, no, duh, ''
05:38:49 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n''#include <wchar.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L'\'','\''?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}'
05:38:54 <HackEgo> No output.
05:38:58 <pikhq> `` gcc src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
05:39:02 <HackEgo> src/pikhqbow.c:2:19: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default] \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
05:39:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:39:26 <pikhq> `cat src/pikhqbow.c
05:39:29 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ #include <wchar.h>\nint main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L','?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}
05:39:44 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n#include <wchar.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=2;b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%02d%s%lc",a,c==L'\'','\''?",99":"",c);a++;if(a==14)a=2;goto b;}'
05:39:47 <HackEgo> No output.
05:39:52 <pikhq> `` gcc src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
05:40:07 <HackEgo> No output.
05:40:08 <pikhq> `` echo "Testing, 1 2 3!" | ./bin/pikhqbow
05:40:10 <HackEgo> Testing, 1 2 3!
05:41:03 <\oren\> uhhh what i dont even
05:41:27 <\oren\> colors in worng order anyway
05:41:53 <pikhq> Using IRC colors in IRC color order and using wchar_t to handle Unicode lazily.
05:42:29 <\oren\> ok but why did it change to a green backgorund
05:42:46 <pikhq> Uh, it shouldn't, and doesn't here?
05:42:51 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:43:04 <pikhq> `` echo "rōmaji de yunikōdo wo tesuto shimashō!" | ./bin/pikhqbow
05:43:06 <HackEgo> r
05:43:16 <pikhq> ...
05:43:27 <pikhq> Oh duh, duh, duh, setlocale needed. :P
05:43:30 <\oren\> I'm seeing a green backgorund on ``, 1 2 3!''
05:43:33 * pikhq officially stops caring
05:44:06 <pikhq> That's your client being buggy: color 99 is the default background, which your client is interpreting as green.
05:44:40 <\oren\> hmmm wht's the channel for irssi?
05:44:44 <pikhq> ... Oh, no, there's client differences.
05:44:45 <pikhq> FFS.
05:45:05 <pikhq> 99 is either the default background *or* the color 99%16.
05:45:21 <\oren\> well mine uses ansi colors which are relatively standards
05:45:43 <pikhq> Yes, but IRC colors are a well-accepted standard on IRC as well.
05:46:21 <pikhq> Unfortunately, IRC colors appear to have a bit of utter brain-damage: you can't reasonably color "," individually.
05:46:24 <shachaf> abcdef
05:46:25 <pikhq> Because that's part of the syntax.
05:47:02 <\oren\> `` echo "well the colors of the rainbow are out of harmony" | ./bin/pikhqbow
05:47:03 <HackEgo> well the colors of the rainbow are out of harmony
05:47:15 <pikhq> A color is set with "\x03%02d", and a color *and background* is set with "\x03%02d,%02d".
05:47:56 <\oren\> I could add bright colors to mine maybe
05:48:12 <\oren\> or dark ones
05:48:28 <\oren\> meh, rainbows have bright colors
05:48:54 <pikhq> So, IRC colors suck. Grumble.
05:48:55 <\oren\> pikhq: oh, I see why you can't do ,
05:54:06 <pikhq> Let's test, shall we?
05:54:21 <pikhq> Mmkay, that'll do.
05:55:53 <\oren\> how about this ,fooar
05:56:07 <\oren\> how about this fooar
05:56:27 <\oren\> aha. it only eats a , if followed directly by a number
05:58:19 <pikhq> Yup.
06:00:36 <\oren\> `` echo "the,3monster,4eats,5commas,6with,7numbers" | ./bin/pikhqbow
06:00:40 <HackEgo> the,3monster,4eats,5commas,6with,7numbers
06:01:01 <\oren\> ok apparently it doesnt
06:01:20 <\oren\> it does however turn everything green background
06:01:24 <pikhq> ``cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n#include <wchar.h>\n#include <locale.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=0;setlocale(LC_ALL,"C.UTF-8");b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%d%lc%s",(int[]){4,7,8,9,12,13}[a],c,c==L'\'','\''?"\x0f":"",c);if(a++==6)a=0;goto b;}
06:01:26 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
06:01:45 <shachaf> The script I uses uses 4,8,9,11,12,13
06:02:10 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n#include <wchar.h>\n#include <locale.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=0;setlocale(LC_ALL,"C.UTF-8");b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%d%lc%s",(int[]){4,8,9,11,12,13}[a],c,c==L'\'','\''?"\x0f":"",c);if(a++==6)a=0;goto b;}
06:02:12 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
06:02:18 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n#include <wchar.h>\n#include <locale.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=0;setlocale(LC_ALL,"C.UTF-8");b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%d%lc%s",(int[]){4,8,9,11,12,13}[a],c,c==L'\'','\''?"\x0f":"",c);if(a++==6)a=0;goto b;}'
06:02:22 <HackEgo> No output.
06:02:35 <pikhq> `` gcc -Os -s src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
06:02:52 <HackEgo> No output.
06:03:05 <pikhq> `` echo "rōmaji de yunikōdo wo tesuto shimashō!" | ./bin/pikhqbow
06:03:08 <HackEgo> rōmaji-1078776480 de yun-1078776480ikōdo w-1078776480o tesut-1078776480o shima-1078776480shō!
06:03:19 <pikhq> Well, that's novel.
06:04:01 <pikhq> `` cat >src/pikhqbow.c <<<$'#include <stdio.h>\n#include <wchar.h>\n#include <locale.h>\n''int main(){wint_t c;int a=0;setlocale(LC_ALL,"C.UTF-8");b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%d%lc%s",(int[]){4,8,9,11,12,13}[a],c,c==L'\'','\''?"\x0f":"",c);if(++a==6)a=0;goto b;}'
06:04:05 <HackEgo> No output.
06:04:09 <pikhq> `` gcc -Os -s src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
06:04:18 <HackEgo> No output.
06:04:23 <pikhq> `` echo "rōmaji de yunikōdo wo tesuto shimashō!" | ./bin/pikhqbow
06:04:24 <HackEgo> rōmaji de yunikōdo wo tesuto shimashō!
06:04:35 <pikhq> `` echo "And, well, what about this?" | ./bin/pikhqbow
06:04:37 <HackEgo> And, well, what about this?
06:05:02 <pikhq> `` cat bin/rainbow
06:05:05 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | orenbow
06:06:16 <pikhq> `mkx bin/rainbow//print_args_or_input "$@" | pikhqbow
06:06:22 <HackEgo> bin/rainbow
06:06:32 <pikhq> `rainbow "Fine, happy now?"
06:06:33 <HackEgo> "Fine, happy now?"
06:06:39 <\oren\> yes
06:07:14 <pikhq> Will probably do weird shit with combining characters though...
06:07:32 <\oren\> `rainbow https://youtu.be/82prN2pF9Zo
06:07:33 <HackEgo> https://youtu.be/8prN2pFZo
06:07:38 <\oren\> mine did too
06:08:09 <\oren\> ooh, my terminal doesn't screw up rainbowed urls
06:08:10 <pikhq> `rainbow À
06:08:12 <HackEgo> À
06:08:18 <\oren\> I can still click on them
06:08:24 <pikhq> Whaddya know, it doesn't mess up on combining characters.
06:08:42 <pikhq> Except it'll probably get colored weirdly.
06:08:57 <\oren\> are you sure that something didn't normalize it on the way?
06:09:03 <pikhq> No, I am not.
06:09:49 <pikhq> Oh, actually, looking at the log, now I am sure.
06:11:06 <\oren\> `` echo "foobar" | zalgo | pikhqbow
06:11:11 <HackEgo> f͎̃o̰̬o̪̺b̭̈́a̺͂r̜͝ \
06:11:53 <\oren\> i think my terminal just ignores colors set on the combiners
06:12:05 <pikhq> Yeah.
06:12:09 <pikhq> Which is probably reasonable.
06:13:20 <\oren\> `` echo "foobar" | zalgo | orenbow
06:13:24 <HackEgo> ​[1m[31mf[33mͬ[32mͬ[36mo[34m̷[35m̝[31mo[33m̾[32m̦[36mb[34m̓[35m̹[31ma[33m̈́[32m̊[36mr[34m̻[35m̧[31m \ [33m
06:20:06 <shachaf> Weren't y'all going to reduce the byte count?
06:21:34 <pikhq> I didn't care, I just wanted to make it use IRC colors instead of vt100 colors.
06:22:02 <\oren\> I was preoccupied with the byte count of the output
06:22:29 <\oren\> and now I'm distracted adding more dingbats to my font
06:22:31 <pikhq> Well. To be sure, moving it to IRC colors will reduce the byte count of the output.
06:22:42 <\oren\> yeah.
06:22:57 <pikhq> Average of 2-3 extra bytes per input instead of... 4-5 or so?
06:24:26 <pikhq> And arguably better text handling, because wchar_t instead.
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06:24:43 <pikhq> (admittedly a little silly, but w/e)
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06:32:23 <shachaf> No, bytes of the executable.
06:32:33 <pikhq> Yup, didn't care.
06:32:41 <shachaf> Who cares about the output?
06:33:03 <pikhq> Would you prefer I pessimize the output? :P
06:33:25 <shachaf> Pessimizing is just optimizing in the opposite category.
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07:39:00 <shachaf> \oren\: Are you in a union?
07:46:37 <oerjan> oh ais523 joined the nethack devteam
07:54:03 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
07:56:11 <oerjan> https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/4r77er/new_devteam_members_bhaak_nethackde_unnethack_and/
08:05:36 <FreeFull> \o/
08:26:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
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08:56:43 <hppavilion[1]> ...Superman canon contains "Pink Kryptonite"
08:56:50 <hppavilion[1]> Which turns kryptonians gay
08:57:02 <hppavilion[1]> What it does to already-gay kryptonians is as-of-yet unspecified
08:58:34 <izabera> makes them super gay
09:01:05 <oerjan> yellow polkadot kryptonite
09:04:26 <hppavilion[1]> I'm surprised it wasn't rainbow
09:04:34 <hppavilion[1]> Or that it didn't form triangular crystals
09:05:15 <oerjan> i think triangles would be too offensive
09:05:42 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh? Really?
09:05:59 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Keep in mind, superman is /stereotypically/ gay, AND becomes gayly attracted to the first man he sees
09:06:21 <oerjan> hm
09:07:19 <oerjan> never mind
09:09:48 <hppavilion[1]> Then again, one could say "Well that's just how gay superman is- are you criticizing how he chooses to live his life?"
09:10:19 <hppavilion[1]> "Just because he fits the stereotypes of gay doesn't mean it's bad- stereotypical gays are just as valid as non-stereotypical gays"
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10:29:27 <izabera> version numbering done right: xf86-video-intel-1:2.99.917+674+g9154dff-1
10:32:03 <FreeFull> The intel drivers have been getting lots of updates recently for some reason
10:34:55 <lifthrasiir> epoch - upstream version - downstream revision - git revision - build revision?
10:35:16 <FreeFull> epoch, in case someone decides to do a complete rewrite?
10:35:17 <lifthrasiir> I don't really know Arch's versioning scheme
10:35:22 <lifthrasiir> FreeFull: yeah, exactly
10:35:30 <lifthrasiir> FreeFull: mostly for otherwise uncorrectable fixes
10:35:40 <FreeFull> lifthrasiir: Most things don't have huge versions like that
10:35:59 <lifthrasiir> of course
10:36:42 <FreeFull> For example the linux package's version is just 4.6.3-1
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12:12:59 <hppavilion[1]> I just learned about debt buyers
12:13:03 <hppavilion[1]> Horribly inethical
12:13:15 <hppavilion[1]> But I think my conscience may have hung himself
12:13:25 <hppavilion[1]> So now I want to make a debt buying company.
12:18:04 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:18:40 <HackEgo> Sword of Fire and Ice \ 3 \ Artifact -- Equipment \ Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has protection from red and from blue. \ Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, Sword of Fire and Ice deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you draw a card. \ Equip {2} \ DST-R, MMA-M
12:20:21 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:20:33 <HackEgo> Omnath, Locus of Rage \ 3RRGG \ Legendary Creature -- Elemental \ 5/5 \ Landfall -- Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, put a 5/5 red and green Elemental creature token onto the battlefield. \ Whenever Omnath, Locus of Rage or another Elemental you control dies, Omnath deals 3 damage to target creature or player. \ BFZ-M
12:21:19 <b_jonas> `random-card
12:21:28 <HackEgo> Kessig Cagebreakers \ 4G \ Creature -- Human Rogue \ 3/4 \ Whenever Kessig Cagebreakers attacks, put a 2/2 green Wolf creature token onto the battlefield tapped and attacking for each creature card in your graveyard. \ ISD-R, C15-R
12:22:30 <b_jonas> a new Omnath, changed? funny
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12:22:41 <boily> hppavellon[1]. you should create a debt selling company to unhang your conscience hth
12:22:56 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I could do that
12:23:02 <b_jonas> I think you misspelled hpp's name
12:23:18 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: It's my porthello, and my irc client responds to it too
12:23:44 <b_jonas> um
12:23:53 <b_jonas> "porthello"?
12:23:56 <b_jonas> `? porthello
12:23:59 <HackEgo> porthello? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:24:01 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I was thinking that, in every batch, I would forgive one of the debts (chosen by either some optimization algorithm or just rolling a d9000)
12:24:12 <hppavilion[1]> Uh, yeah, porthellos
12:24:18 <b_jonas> is that like a bordello?
12:24:19 <hppavilion[1]> A time-honored #esoteric tradition
12:24:29 <b_jonas> ah, I see!
12:24:32 <hppavilion[1]> This isn't even a joke, this is a thing that we've been doing at least since I joined the channel
12:24:44 <b_jonas> like a hellonas or helloren
12:24:46 <hppavilion[1]> Like hell\oren\ or ahoily or helloon
12:24:48 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
12:25:08 <hppavilion[1]> Or helloerjan
12:25:19 <b_jonas> there was a French one too
12:25:34 <hppavilion[1]> Or that one time I said <256-digit hex string that appears to be a hash>chaf
12:25:37 <boily> bon_journas?
12:25:59 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Never seen that one, but it's probably been used, and if it hasn't it should be used from now on
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12:36:56 <b_jonas> boily: no, I think the French one is bon soerjan or something. And the Hungarian one is probably b_jó napot-s or something
12:37:11 <b_jonas> I didn't know these were called porthello
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13:08:19 <LKoen> b_jonas: can I use the bonsoerjan? I like it
13:08:36 <b_jonas> LKoen: um, don't ask me, that one is for oerjan, not me
13:09:38 <LKoen> for you it would be bon_journas I guess
13:10:04 <b_jonas> LKoen: yes
13:12:07 <izabera> frozen fever is a 6 minutes short by pixar that's sold for 1.99$ or 5.99€
13:12:39 <izabera> really, the italian version costs 5.99€
13:13:03 <izabera> i'm so disgusted
13:14:31 <izabera> oh it's not from pixar but only from disney, whatever
13:17:16 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: 256-*digit* hex string? That's pretty wide for a hash.
13:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: I don't know, maybe it was 64? Yeah, it must've been 256-bit
13:18:36 <izabera> fizzie: must. avoid. collisions.
13:20:33 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, the Cincinnati Zoo shot and killed a gorilla that was actively a danger to a 3-year-old child
13:20:39 <hppavilion[1]> And people questioned there decision
13:22:24 <hppavilion[1]> *their
13:24:55 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: how did a child get in there?
13:25:09 <b_jonas> was it a human child? a gorilla child?
13:25:16 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Human
13:25:41 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: b_jonas: He climbed over a barrier and managed to get past numerous other measures (wires, etc.) before managing to fall 15 feet into a moat
13:26:31 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: And even if it was an issue that the child managed to get in, that doesn't really change the fact that there was a child actively in danger, and they had to shoot the gorilla or risk the life of the child
13:27:41 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: sure, it's normal that they shoot the gorilla, I'm just surprised that a child can get in
13:28:23 <b_jonas> because here you can observe the gorillas through these huge plexiglass windows iir
13:30:13 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: ydr, itym iirc
13:31:18 <b_jonas> yes, I just can't type.
13:36:03 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: itym ijfumk
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13:37:24 <b_jonas> by the way, what kind of drink is it that Faye just bought (in Questionable Content)? The bottle label look strange. Is it wine, beer, liquor, strong drink?
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13:51:36 <hppavilion[1]> Where's the nearest space canon terminal?
14:03:57 <hppavilion[1]> QUESTION: Who was the Walrus?
14:07:33 <b_jonas> `? walrus
14:07:41 <HackEgo> walrus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:07:54 <hppavilion[1]> *gasp*
14:07:56 <hppavilion[1]> `? the walrus
14:07:58 <HackEgo> the walrus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:10:05 <b_jonas> `? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:10:07 <HackEgo> ​¯\_(ツ)_/¯? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:10:37 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn the walrus//In order to obtain the unredacted documents specifying the true identity of the walrus, contact the Glass Onion (mailing address: UH2BEStWmPI)
14:10:48 <HackEgo> Learned «the walrus»
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14:16:41 <b_jonas> `learn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°​_o)/¯ of urbandictionary
14:16:42 <hppavilion[1]> wookipedia has an article on divorce
14:16:44 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_/¯: No such file or directory \ Learned '¯\_(ツ)_/¯': ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°​_o)/¯ of urbandictionary
14:17:10 <hppavilion[1]> Wat?
14:17:16 <b_jonas> `? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:17:18 <HackEgo> ​¯\_(ツ)_/¯? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:17:34 <b_jonas> `mkdir wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_
14:17:35 <HackEgo> No output.
14:17:37 <b_jonas> `learn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°​_o)/¯ of urbandictionary
14:17:41 <HackEgo> Learned '¯\_(ツ)_/¯': ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°​_o)/¯ of urbandictionary
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14:37:17 <b_jonas> `wisdom
14:37:22 <HackEgo> oic//OIC, OIC means Oh I see.
14:37:41 <b_jonas> `random-card -C\b
14:37:46 <HackEgo> Unknown Unicode option letter '\'.
14:37:54 <b_jonas> `random-card \-C\b
14:37:57 <HackEgo> Crack the Earth \ R \ Sorcery -- Arcane \ Each player sacrifices a permanent. \ BOK-C
14:38:08 <b_jonas> ``` cat bin/random-card
14:38:10 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e'open$I,"<","share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die$!;$/=""; @c=grep{/(?mi:$ARGV[0])/}<$I>; print($c[rand(@c)] || "No card found.");' "$1"
14:38:47 <b_jonas> ``` sed 's/("\x241)/-- $1/' bin/random-card
14:38:49 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e'open$I,"<","share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die$!;$/=""; @c=grep{/(?mi:$ARGV[0])/}<$I>; print($c[rand(@c)] || "No card found.");' "$1"
14:39:19 <b_jonas> huh
14:39:21 <b_jonas> oh
14:39:31 <b_jonas> ``` perl -pe 's/("\x241)/-- $1/' bin/random-card
14:39:33 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec perl -e'open$I,"<","share/mtg/allsets.txt"or die$!;$/=""; @c=grep{/(?mi:$ARGV[0])/}<$I>; print($c[rand(@c)] || "No card found.");' -- "$1"
14:39:39 <b_jonas> ``` perl -i -pe 's/("\x241)/-- $1/' bin/random-card
14:39:42 <HackEgo> No output.
14:39:49 <b_jonas> `random-card -C\b
14:39:52 <HackEgo> Harrow \ 2G \ Instant \ As an additional cost to cast Harrow, sacrifice a land. \ Search your library for up to two basic land cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. \ TE-U, IN-C, ZEN-C, C14-C, DDE-C, DDP-C
14:41:25 <b_jonas> hmm, that Crack the Earth is an interesting one. If I rebuild my Spirit-Arcane tribal deck I should consider it.
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16:23:14 <\oren\> shachaf: no, course not. why would computer programmers need a union?
16:23:51 <\oren\> it's not like our working conditions are dangerous
16:27:28 <\oren\> and for that matter, i'd probably get paid less if there was a union
16:27:40 <alercah> we need a union when a struct won't do
16:30:02 <\oren\> alercah: no puns
16:30:38 <\oren\> punning is bad unless it's type punning
16:41:52 <b_jonas> alercah: In the past, we didn't technically need unions, we could just alias with a char array or memcpy from it. It's only in more modern times when we actually need unions to provide a constexpr-able implementation to sum types like optional
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17:12:40 <\oren\> Dredge Ship \ UU \ Creature -- Ship \ U, sacrifice Dredge Ship: Search your library for an Island and place it on the battlefield tapped. \ 2/2 \
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17:14:48 <b_jonas> \oren\: would that be like an explorer ship?
17:14:57 <b_jonas> finding and conquering new isladns
17:16:10 <\oren\> nah, it's a Dredger ship: it dredges up sand and piles it to make an aritfical island
17:16:21 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh!
17:16:27 <\oren\> like the Chinese have been doing lately
17:16:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: but in that case why would you have to sacrifice it?
17:16:55 <\oren\> hmm, good point.
17:17:07 <\oren\> Expedition Ship
17:17:46 <\oren\> you sacrifice it because they were killed by the natives
17:18:30 <b_jonas> mind you, I have the feeling that blue shouldn't be able to do this so cheaply
17:18:39 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Silkwing Scout
17:18:46 <b_jonas> because it's very off-color to them
17:18:55 <\oren\> right
17:19:07 <HackEgo> Silkwing Scout \ 2U \ Creature -- Faerie Scout \ 2/1 \ Flying \ {G}, Sacrifice Silkwing Scout: Search your library for a basic land card and put that card onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library. \ DIS-C
17:19:07 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Embodiment of Spring
17:19:11 <HackEgo> Embodiment of Spring \ U \ Creature -- Elemental \ 0/3 \ {1}{G}, {T}, Sacrifice Embodiment of Spring: Search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library. \ KTK-C
17:19:16 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Dreamscape Artist
17:19:18 <HackEgo> Dreamscape Artist \ 1U \ Creature -- Human Spellshaper \ 1/1 \ {2}{U}, {T}, Discard a card, Sacrifice a land: Search your library for up to two basic land cards and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. \ PLC-C
17:21:07 <\oren\> a lot of cards just say land or basic land. it seems rarer to see things like 'search for a Mountain' 'sacrifice a Forest'
17:21:33 <b_jonas> \oren\: that's true, but a few restrict to a specific land type for power reasons
17:22:31 <b_jonas> Utopia Sprawl is an example, compare it to Wild Growth
17:22:49 <b_jonas> and this is even more important outside of green
17:23:35 <alercah> b_jonas: indeed
17:29:13 <\oren\> Hmm... i wonder whether a good deck could be made using only cards that cose one mana?
17:29:21 <\oren\> (and lands)
17:30:29 <b_jonas> \oren\: in what sort of format or metagame?
17:31:46 <\oren\> standard i guess?
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17:33:10 <\oren\> you'd want to go for a quick game because with only 1 mana cards you'd go through your library very quickly
17:33:41 <b_jonas> \oren\: I don't think so
17:34:04 <b_jonas> \oren\: if you want such a deck, I'd think of a combo deck rather, which is less likely to work in standard this way
17:35:17 <alercah> yes it can be done
17:35:35 <alercah> it's called bant hexproof
17:39:28 <shachaf> \oren\: that's what employers want you to think hth
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17:40:25 <alercah> shachaf: you have an option of joining a union?
17:40:55 <shachaf> I don't think so?
17:41:01 <shachaf> ais523: congrais523
17:41:17 <\oren\> Hmm well it's my understanding that unions tend to move people's pay toward the average. since mine is above the average I don't want that.
17:43:02 <\oren\> also, i defiantly don't want to pay union dues
17:43:27 <\oren\> that wasn't a typo
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17:51:40 <shachaf> What if it moved the average up?
17:51:51 <shachaf> What is the average, anyway? Maybe you're misled about the average?
17:52:45 -!- Melvar has joined.
17:59:09 <\oren\> shachaf: well the average would include people who are far less competent than me
17:59:19 -!- idris-bot has joined.
17:59:46 <\oren\> I don't want to be lumped in with every copypasta slinger
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18:05:25 <\oren\> also, in general I have a bad impression of unions because they have ruined Toronto
18:06:19 <\oren\> I still remember when the garbage people struck and the city smelled of rotting food for weeks
18:06:48 <\oren\> even now the construction unions are sucking our municipal funds dry
18:07:04 <ais523> when the garbage people went on strike here on the UK the government hired temp workers to do the garbage collection
18:07:12 <ais523> and apparently they were both cheaper and faser than the actual official garbage collectors
18:07:14 <ais523> *faster
18:09:14 <alercah> \oren\: public sector unions suck
18:09:19 <alercah> private sector unions are ok usually
18:09:32 <alercah> problem with public sector unions is they have like nothing to lose
18:09:39 <alercah> they can't drive a government out of business
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18:17:44 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Livewire Lash
18:17:56 <HackEgo> Livewire Lash \ 2 \ Artifact -- Equipment \ Equipped creature gets +2/+0 and has "Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell, this creature deals 2 damage to target creature or player." \ Equip {2} \ SOM-R
18:17:58 <b_jonas> that sounds dangerous
18:18:14 <b_jonas> I need that card
18:18:24 <b_jonas> oh!
18:18:28 <b_jonas> target of a SPELL!
18:18:32 <b_jonas> not target of a spell or ability
18:18:34 <b_jonas> right
18:18:41 <b_jonas> they aren't that stupid
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18:32:26 <hppavilion[1]> Verdict of the SECOHE: Islam is not really "the" religion of peace- many Muslims are peaceful, but that isn't because of their religion, it's because they weren't douchebags to begin with; similarly, violent Muslims would probably be violent anyway, but Islam gives them a more clear way to channel it. The peace- and the violence- comes from the people, not from the religion
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18:46:58 <izabera> http://eidogo.com/#A30WVDXD enjoy :P
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19:00:21 <\oren\> I redesigned http://www.orenwatson.be/allfiles.htm to cope with directories! now not everything has to be in /var/www/html
19:01:46 <int-e> someone on ##math mentioned http://euclidthegame.com/ ... I think some people here might enjoy it (constructive geometry)
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19:13:34 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: This is the best thing ever
19:13:57 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: I've always wanted to learn c/se, but it seemed like the most boring thing I could possibly do, so I didn't
19:14:38 <shachaf> \oren\: I think many programmers are overpaid compared to the value they provide to society, but underpaid compared to the value they provide to their employers.
19:15:09 <shachaf> I'm pretty sure that goes for me right now. Probably for you. Who knows.
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19:20:23 <\oren\> yeh.
19:24:25 <hppavilion[1]> ansi.ans is a rather terrifying filename
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19:45:27 <myname> sna.isna
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20:12:05 <\oren\> i use .ans to mean a file with ansi color escapes in it
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20:21:58 <wob_jonas> Why are the logos for SQLite and Apache basically the same?
20:31:37 <wob_jonas> Time to donate to SGDQ!
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21:04:09 <int-e> wob = waste of bandwidth, hmm?
21:04:38 <int-e> `quote wob
21:05:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, wob as in http://www.xkcd.com/148/ because it's through a web-based irc client
21:05:17 <HackEgo> No output.
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21:07:49 <myname> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deadgentlemen/the-gamers-episode-1?ref=project_link :o
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21:33:17 <\oren\> i wish tmux would detect somehow that there's another tmux inside it and seamlessly integrate
21:33:52 <wob_jonas> \oren\: hmm.... that would be interesting, but I think it should be optional
21:34:15 <\oren\> ok, maybe there would be a button like ctrl-b alt-i that integrates
21:34:33 <wob_jonas> \oren\: right, or a configuration option or command-line switch or something
21:34:44 <\oren\> actually that would be much easier than it automatically detecting itself
21:35:06 <wob_jonas> why? detecting automatically isn't actually difficult
21:36:06 <wob_jonas> you just need an option and command for actually integrating IF it detects
21:36:57 <wob_jonas> I guess you could even integrate it in some of those crazy tabbed terminal emulators people use, with a proper protocol.
21:38:50 <\oren\> oh, i see, it would send a quick recognition string when it starts up
21:39:07 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yes
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22:36:06 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
22:36:40 <HackEgo> mroman//mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare.
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22:42:40 <myname> wat
22:42:50 <myname> i should invent something, too
22:44:31 <wob_jonas> myname: it's usually Taneb who invents things here
22:44:37 <wob_jonas> be careful not to invent the same things as he did
22:45:13 <myname> i don't care!
22:45:25 <myname> at best i am like schönfinkel
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23:01:58 <\oren\> i nvented the rubblesort
23:03:44 <\oren\> it is a bubblesort but instead of iterating over the array you do them in a random order each pass
23:04:53 <\oren\> this makes the rubblesort immune to malicious input while retaining the bubblesort's raw performance
23:08:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:09:56 <boily> he\\oren\.
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23:23:13 <moon-moon> \/\\\/\\/\
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23:27:47 <boily> mhelloon-mhelloon!
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2016-07-06
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00:15:34 <boily> `wisdom
00:15:43 <HackEgo> php//php is the PigeonHole Principle
00:16:54 <quintopia> bon soily
00:17:13 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
00:18:24 <quintopia> how goeth the postal shrike?
00:21:55 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:22:58 <quintopia> hellørjan
00:23:54 <oerjan> queventopinga
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00:24:56 <oerjan> kaixoily
00:25:01 <quintopia> queven topinga?
00:25:12 <quintopia> you mean topanga? topanga matthews?
00:25:18 <oerjan> no.
00:25:30 <oerjan> i don't know topanga matthews, sorry.
00:25:54 <quintopia> topanga lawrence?
00:26:05 <quintopia> (that would be the premarital topanga)
00:26:23 <oerjan> no.
00:26:38 <oerjan> i don't usually watch tv, for a start.
00:27:10 <quintopia> sure sure. for a second, you don't watch american tv.
00:27:26 <quintopia> for a third, you're antediluvian.
00:27:39 <quintopia> but we can always pretend you understand these things
00:27:48 <oerjan> i'm not sure there's that much difference as far as soaps are considered.
00:28:24 <quintopia> boy meets world would not be considered particularly soapy hth
00:28:25 <oerjan> although i hear norway has produced more soaps after i stopped watching.
00:28:33 <oerjan> well i wouldn't know, would i?
00:28:46 <quintopia> so tdh
00:29:05 <quintopia> yw
00:29:19 <oerjan> thx
00:38:09 <oerjan> `? porthello
00:38:15 <HackEgo> porthello? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:41:16 <oerjan> `? thé
00:41:19 <HackEgo> Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
00:41:40 <oerjan> `le/rn porthello/Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
00:41:44 <HackEgo> Learned «porthello»
00:43:25 <boily> quinthellopia! the strike is crippling my chi.
00:43:34 <oerjan> there's a strike?
00:43:36 <boily> hellørjan.
00:43:46 <boily> there's even a lockout. complete nonsense.
00:44:13 <quintopia> been watching any sgdq?
00:44:26 <boily> Some Games Done Quick?
00:44:32 <oerjan> i'm sure the OQLF mandates strikes to keep the cultural connection.
00:45:00 <quintopia> summer
00:45:11 <quintopia> i'll take that as a no
00:46:17 <oerjan> boily: are you, yourself, on strike?
00:46:33 <oerjan> or is it just the general environment of nothing working
00:47:30 <boily> quintopia: are there any hilites from this year?
00:48:11 <boily> oerjan: no, it's just Summer. praise be unto the Orange Cone.
00:49:15 <oerjan> ah.
00:49:32 <oerjan> in norway, strikes are usually in late spring.
00:50:05 <oerjan> since that's when most (all?) tariff agreements are renegotiated.
00:50:12 <quintopia> boily: i missed a blindfold run of castlevania sotn
00:50:42 <quintopia> boily: there's a tas on saturday of smb 1,2, and 3 all simultaneously from the same input sequence
00:50:50 <oerjan> which does wonders for the exam period when teachers are involved.
00:51:07 <quintopia> boily: super meat boy in half an hour
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00:52:09 <quintopia> boily: blind kaizo smm race on friday that i will have to miss at work :(
00:52:25 <quintopia> (team races are so fun to watch)
00:52:43 <oerjan> apropos kaizo, i think boily missed my porthello.
00:53:48 <quintopia> yes apparently
00:55:37 <boily> I missed it >_>'...
00:55:50 <boily> HELKOen.
00:56:50 * oerjan briefly ponders the porthello singularity, but realizes making them _totally_ impenetrable is probably too easy.
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01:05:03 <quintopia> time to go home so not to miss the smb run
01:05:49 <FireFly> Hehe
01:06:02 <FireFly> I missed the blindfolded SOTN too, will have to watch it tomorrow
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01:53:55 <oerjan> `cat bin/learn
01:54:01 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
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01:55:44 <shachaf> `ls tmp
01:55:49 <HackEgo> args \ fruit \ sh \ spline \ spout \ tempcmd \ testcmd \ tmp_jonas
01:56:04 <oerjan> `cat bin/slashlearn
01:56:05 <HackEgo> sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo "$verb «$key»"
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01:56:41 <shachaf> `? the
01:56:43 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
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01:57:33 <oerjan> `sled bin/learn//>.wisdom.topic./>"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")"/
01:57:34 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `>'
01:57:37 <oerjan> argh
01:58:01 <oerjan> `sled bin/learn//s,>.wisdom.topic.,>"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")",
01:58:02 <HackEgo> bin/learn//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
01:58:10 <oerjan> dammit
01:58:43 <oerjan> `sled bin/learn//s,[>].wisdom.topic.,>"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")",
01:58:44 <HackEgo> bin/learn//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
01:58:56 <oerjan> something is wrong.
02:01:21 <oerjan> `` sed 's,[>].wisdom.topic.,>"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")",' bin/learn
02:01:23 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
02:01:23 <adu> oerjan: the banksters have taken over wall street?
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02:02:15 <oerjan> `` sed 's,[>].wisdom.topic.,>"\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$topic")",' bin/learn
02:02:16 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
02:02:28 <oerjan> oh
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02:02:38 <oerjan> `sled bin/learn//s,[>].wisdom..topic.,>"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")",
02:02:41 <HackEgo> bin/learn//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1"
02:03:01 <oerjan> `learn te/sting is important.
02:03:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'te/sting': te/sting is important.
02:03:08 <adu> oerjan: the sun is too hot?
02:03:12 <oerjan> `? te/sting
02:03:14 <HackEgo> te/sting is important.
02:03:22 <oerjan> adu: i forgot a character in my sed pattern.
02:03:30 <oerjan> `forget te/sting
02:03:33 <adu> oerjan: oh ok
02:03:34 <tswett> `? te
02:03:35 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:03:36 <HackEgo> te? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:03:46 <tswett> `ls wisdom/te
02:03:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/te: No such file or directory
02:04:02 <oerjan> tswett: `forget cleans up parent directories
02:04:12 <tswett> `cat bin/forget
02:04:13 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ rm-p "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" \ echo "Forget what?"
02:04:26 <tswett> I was thinking "Forget what?" was an error message.
02:04:33 <tswett> > sum . replicate 10 $ 0.1
02:04:34 <oerjan> no, just an inside joke.
02:04:35 <lambdabot> 0.9999999999999999
02:05:02 <tswett> > grain
02:05:03 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘grain’
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02:19:24 <adu> oerjan: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fJFtYlv544n7DdqGBDVT1TRRE2HxW0JKH2blUbnmJyQtgKrexGHVrRuO6Sv1Q1oO2uPGaR0lkucpNvvew8B5euD95gI7sIahwt2gTSvAgr9ElLCHlhM
02:20:27 <tswett> > let mid x y z = min (max x y) (max (min x y) z) in [mid 1 2 3, mid 1 3 2, mid 2 1 3, mid 2 3 1, mid 3 1 2, mid 3 2 1]
02:20:28 <lambdabot> [2,2,2,2,2,2]
02:21:08 <oerjan> > let mid x y z = sort [x,y,z} !! 1 in [mid 1 2 3, mid 1 3 2, mid 2 1 3, mid 2 3 1, mid 3 1 2, mid 3 2 1]
02:21:10 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:28: parse error on input ‘}’
02:21:13 <oerjan> gah
02:21:23 <oerjan> > let mid x y z = sort [x,y,z] !! 1 in [mid 1 2 3, mid 1 3 2, mid 2 1 3, mid 2 3 1, mid 3 1 2, mid 3 2 1]
02:21:24 <lambdabot> [2,2,2,2,2,2]
02:21:28 <oerjan> stupid keyboard
02:24:58 <oerjan> `? the walrus
02:25:01 <HackEgo> ​/In order to obtain the unredacted documents specifying the true identity of the walrus, contact the Glass Onion (mailing address: UH2BEStWmPI)
02:25:21 <oerjan> `slwd the walrus//s,.,,
02:25:24 <HackEgo> wisdom/the walrus//In order to obtain the unredacted documents specifying the true identity of the walrus, contact the Glass Onion (mailing address: UH2BEStWmPI)
02:25:40 <oerjan> `slwd the walrus//s,$,.,
02:25:43 <HackEgo> wisdom/the walrus//In order to obtain the unredacted documents specifying the true identity of the walrus, contact the Glass Onion (mailing address: UH2BEStWmPI).
02:27:28 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas i fixed `learn so it creates parent directories like the other versions.
02:27:28 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:51:00 <hppavilion[1]> Quote from Wikipedia: This is an allusion to the Ray Bradbury novel Fahrenheit 451 and possibly the film thereof, 451 °F (233 °C) being equivalent to 232 Centigrade.
02:51:17 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently, 233 and 232 are really the same number
02:51:53 <pikhq> Depends on if you round up or down.
02:52:06 <pikhq> 451F is 232.778C.
02:55:42 <oerjan> well at least it continues the tradition of messing up the numbers
02:57:04 <oerjan> (iirc the temperature that the book was supposed to be named after is 451 °C)
02:57:31 <hppavilion[1]> `? the old
02:57:36 <HackEgo> the old? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:57:47 <lifthrasiir> > (In reality, scientists place the autoignition temperature of paper anywhere from high 440 degrees Fahrenheit to some 30 degrees hotter, depending on the study and type of paper.)
02:57:48 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:60: parse error on input ‘of’
02:58:02 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: No, it's roughly 451 F, though studies put it from 440 to... more
02:58:06 <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, lifthrasiir
02:58:10 <oerjan> oh
02:58:15 <lifthrasiir> okay, I'm running out of good prefix-quotation punctuation
02:58:24 <lifthrasiir> | I guess this was also in use
02:58:33 <lifthrasiir> ...or it isn't?
02:58:34 <oerjan> shockingly, it seems not
02:58:42 <oerjan> ^prefixes
02:58:42 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
02:58:46 <lifthrasiir> oh
02:58:49 <lifthrasiir> j-bot was [
02:58:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Really, it's not a meddling issue so much as a why-the-fuck-did-a-SF-writer-use-Fahrenheit issue
02:58:54 <lifthrasiir> I thought it was |
02:59:01 <tswett> So I want to write a method that, given a bunch of symbols labeled with nonnegative floating point numbers, selects a random symbol, with each symbol's probability being proportional to the number.
02:59:03 <lifthrasiir> should learn to stick to it
02:59:08 <hppavilion[1]> I voe that all quote prefixes from now on be $Q((U$&
02:59:27 <tswett> I'm not sure what sort of algorithm to use.
02:59:52 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I don't know, but I have the sneaking feeling godel is going to fuck this up somehow. I would be impressed, but not surprised
02:59:56 <tswett> The algorithm doesn't have to be exact by any means. But it also shouldn't be something that crashes.
03:00:11 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: this is definitely computable.
03:00:24 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: That's what we always think
03:01:58 <tswett> By the way, the symbols are bytes. There are always exactly 256 of them.
03:04:04 <oerjan> tswett: sum the probabilities for a symbol and the previous ones. then make a table, select a random number from 0 to the total sum, and do binary search.
03:04:40 <oerjan> you might want to divide the probabilities by the total sum to make it 1.
03:05:28 <oerjan> well, this is assuming you'll use the same probabilities for several samplings.
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03:06:04 <tswett> Hmm. According to the documentation...
03:06:17 <tswett> The difference between cumsum and cumsumi is that cumsum is in-place and cumsumi is not.
03:06:26 <tswett> The difference between div and divi is that divi is in-place and div is not.
03:06:34 <tswett> Anyone notice something odd there?
03:06:40 <oerjan> you'd think.
03:07:03 <oerjan> i have a hunch the first is switched.
03:07:06 <tswett> I'm just going to trust the documentation even though it seems like it can't possibly be right.
03:07:10 <oerjan> *first pair
03:07:40 <tswett> I really wish they'd just used names like "cumSumInPlace" and "divInPlace".
03:08:44 <oerjan> cumulative sum sounds like the thing, anyway
03:11:51 <oerjan> (assuming that's like haskell scanl1 (+))
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03:19:48 <tswett> > scanl1 (+) [1,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,2]
03:19:50 <lambdabot> [1,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,26,28,30,32,34]
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05:15:49 <\oren\> Thank goodness, I'm not the only one who noticed that Michelangelo had no idea what a woman looks like
05:19:13 <adu> lol
05:20:16 <\oren\> (I was looking at a "3d interactive panorama" of the sistine chapel and noticed that Eve was looking a little.. manly)
05:28:49 <\oren\> Raphael on the other hand, appears to know what women look like
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06:14:35 <izabera> michelangelo was gay
06:21:41 <hppavilion[1]> `` grep -P '(.)\1{2}' /usr/share/dict/words
06:22:44 <HackEgo> grep: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory
06:23:52 <hppavilion[1]> *gasp*
06:24:01 <izabera> y u no grep -E
06:25:34 <shachaf> `` grep -P '(.)\1{2}' share/dict-words
06:25:42 <HackEgo> KKK's \ WWW's
06:25:51 <shachaf> Why {2} rather than \1?
06:27:52 <\oren\> `random-card
06:28:04 <HackEgo> Iridescent Drake \ 3U \ Creature -- Drake \ 2/2 \ Flying \ When Iridescent Drake enters the battlefield, put target Aura card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control attached to Iridescent Drake. \ UD-U
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07:45:17 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Genocide is... interesting
07:45:21 <hppavilion[1]> "Issues"
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07:50:57 <izabera> how dare they label things as issues
07:51:09 <izabera> so disrespectful
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07:53:31 <hppavilion[1]> "It is a matter of honor with me to be absolutely clean and unequivocal in relation to anti-Semitism" -- Friedrich Nietzsche
07:53:46 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: It's just weird word choice
07:54:00 <hppavilion[1]> It makes it sound like it's a debate xD
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08:33:47 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgf5PaBzyg
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09:39:57 <izabera> http://www.tomsarazac.com/tom/opinions/xterm-problems.html good read
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10:44:36 * FireFly looks
10:45:12 <FireFly> Should I read "xterms" as "teminal emulators supposed to be compatible with xterm"?
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10:45:33 <FireFly> hm no, looks like forks of xterm
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10:52:01 <FireFly> Speaking of terminal emulators, http://www.leonerd.org.uk/hacks/fixterms/
11:02:27 <b_jonas> FireFly: I actually don't completely like that proposal. Some of it makes sense, but some of it should be optional and active only when an app requests that mode with an escape sequence and the user allows it: I like the fact that c-M, c-J, c-?, c-H, c-I can be entered in two ways, and especially like the fact that space can be entered as shift-space.
11:03:39 <FireFly> Mmm, fair
11:05:08 <b_jonas> Also, the proposal seems half-done, because it doesn't mention what should happen with some of the control-numbers, which are sometimes mapped so that c-3 c-4 c-5 c-7 are an alias of c-\ c-[ c-] c-_ in some order
11:12:27 <b_jonas> (Nor does it seem to mention the key codes starting with "\eO", despite that those matter for the timing info too.)
11:13:52 <int-e> that wasn't a good read... there is a reasonable complaint in there but wading through the insults was tiresome
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11:34:20 <hppavilion[1]> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Feb1712.jpg is my new favorite 1712 swedish calendar
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11:40:29 <hppavilion[1]> 9/2932 never forget
11:42:10 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh, it's annoying when you look for something with EXACT times and they don't include seconds
11:45:31 <hppavilion[1]> 1000212400 never forget
11:45:34 <hppavilion[1]> There we go
11:45:39 <hppavilion[1]> Am I a bad person yet?
11:48:42 <myname> nah
11:49:13 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Darn
11:53:40 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Where could I go that the people there would be offended, but only a couple could figure out that they should be, and would have a hard time explaining it to everyone else?
11:54:11 <myname> ground zero
11:55:09 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I mean in terms of an IRC channel
11:55:35 <myname> ah
11:55:37 <myname> dunno
11:56:12 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: probably anywhere if you make an obscure enough joke
11:56:25 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: True
11:56:30 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: I'm going to find if the GOP has an IRC
11:56:39 <b_jonas> an obscure and hard to explain one that is
11:56:58 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Unix timestamps
11:57:05 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Does that qualify?
11:59:09 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: the hard part is making the joke hard to _explain_, not just hard to recognize
12:02:39 <deltab> I've noticed a program look for ~/.terminfo
12:05:10 <hppavilion[1]> There, I'm using the message *nix.1000212400<3
12:05:19 <hppavilion[1]> Anybody who gets it has earned my eternal respect
12:05:26 <hppavilion[1]> (outside of programmer circles)
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12:10:40 <b_jonas> deltab: yes, that's the directory where programs using terminfo databases look for user (not system) terminfo description files, unless the program is set[gu]id or you set the TERMINFO env-var. See the terminfo(5) manual from ncurses.
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12:13:00 <myname> feminists are easy to insult
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13:28:37 <hppavilion[1]> What's the easiest way to fuck with the rules of mohammed-drawing?
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13:37:26 <hppavilion[1]> OK, I seem to be missing something with xkcd garden
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14:02:35 <hppavilion[1]> That moment when Safety Dance unexpectedly starts playing in the background
14:04:12 <hppavilion[1]> In the future, everyone will have brain implants that improve our understandings of music theory and composition and gives us minor telepathic powers for song syncronization
14:07:28 <izabera> https://vimeo.com/161783929/dba6a42ad3 knuth is so cute
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14:43:52 <b_jonas> `olist 1043
14:44:58 <HackEgo> olist 1043: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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17:03:16 <\oren\> the fact that he wants to take the xterm developers and "bend them over and have at it" could be taken in multiple ways.
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18:34:11 <\oren\> I don't think i've ever used an xterm-based terminal
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19:37:41 <izabera> error: a label can only be part of a statement and a declaration is not a statement
19:37:43 <izabera> I HATE THIS
19:38:17 <izabera> it's the most idiotic limitation they could come up with
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19:38:42 <izabera> the single most pointless stupid dumb limitation in the whole history of programming languages
19:42:24 <izabera> fg
19:42:28 <izabera> wrong windo
19:42:30 <izabera> w
19:47:10 <\oren\> just put a ; after all labels
19:47:33 <\oren\> this works unless you're in a one line if statement
19:52:27 <izabera> but whyyyyy
19:52:32 <izabera> why do i have to do this
19:52:42 <izabera> why is this stupid rule there in the first place
19:55:55 <\oren\> originally, you had declarations at the start of a function, and statements after that. mixing them at all was an extension to c90, adopted only in c99
19:56:15 <izabera> it's been 40 years since "originally"
19:56:22 <\oren\> no, only 26
19:56:33 <izabera> "only"
19:59:26 <\oren\> `` echo -e '#include <stdio.h>\nint main(){printf("hello\\n");int i=30;printf("this won'\''t work\\n");}' | gcc -xc -otest -
19:59:53 -!- gamemanj has joined.
20:00:15 <\oren\> `` echo -e '#include <stdio.h>\nint main(){printf("hello\\n");int i=30;printf("this won'\''t work\\n");}' | gcc -std=c90 -xc -otest -
20:00:47 <HackEgo> No output.
20:00:49 <izabera> unrelated: how do i get a readable fd from a fd opened with O_PATH ?
20:00:56 <HackEgo> No output.
20:01:56 <\oren\> `` echo -e '#include <stdio.h>\nint main(){printf("hello\\n");int i=30;printf("this won'\''t work\\n");}' | gcc -std=c90 -pedantic -xc -otest -
20:02:16 <HackEgo> ​<stdin>: In function ‘main’: \ <stdin>:2:30: warning: ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code [-pedantic]
20:02:22 <\oren\> there we go
20:02:26 <shachaf> \oren\: Why write to the root directory rather than to tmp/?
20:02:34 <shachaf> That way you're putting it in hg history.
20:02:37 <shachaf> Pretty scow move if you ask me.
20:03:01 <\oren\> `? scow
20:03:04 <HackEgo> Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp.
20:03:17 <shachaf> `cwlprits scow
20:03:28 <HackEgo> oerjan
20:03:40 <\oren\> `? culprits
20:03:42 <gamemanj> `? cons
20:03:46 <HackEgo> ​`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY
20:03:48 <HackEgo> cons? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:04:01 <\oren\> `? cwlprits
20:04:03 <HackEgo> cwlprits? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:04:28 <gamemanj> `learn cons are small mammals which, shortly after birth, eat two other mammals. they then live on sunlight and grass.
20:04:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'con': cons are small mammals which, shortly after birth, eat two other mammals. they then live on sunlight and grass.
20:04:47 <shachaf> I don't get it.
20:05:03 <shachaf> What I know is that it doesn't live up to the guidelines.
20:05:10 <\oren\> shachaf: lisp was mentioned recently
20:05:31 <shachaf> Yes, but that wisdom entry appears to have no redeeming value.
20:05:43 <gamemanj> in which case, feel free to alter/remove it
20:05:45 <alercah> there are guidelines?
20:05:45 <shachaf> But I could just be missing it.
20:06:01 <shachaf> Yes. For example the guideline that says that you capitalize sentences.
20:06:15 <shachaf> I can remove it, but maybe I'm missing something.
20:06:17 <alercah> `? guidelines
20:06:19 <\oren\> `? sentence
20:06:19 <HackEgo> guidelines? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:06:21 <HackEgo> sentence? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:06:51 <gamemanj> `learn Cons are small mammals which, shortly after birth, eat two other mammals. They then live on sunlight and grass, until they are finally removed from existence.
20:06:54 <\oren\> you must capitalize SENTENCES whenever it appears in a wisdom entry
20:06:55 <HackEgo> Relearned 'con': Cons are small mammals which, shortly after birth, eat two other mammals. They then live on sunlight and grass, until they are finally removed from existence.
20:07:08 <shachaf> I don't get it.
20:07:24 <\oren\> shachaf: do you know lisp
20:07:41 <shachaf> More or less.
20:08:16 <\oren\> cons is the function that takes two arguments and makes a 2-tuple of them
20:08:41 <shachaf> I know that.
20:09:00 <\oren\> that's the joke
20:09:24 <shachaf> What's the joke?
20:10:15 <\oren\> AAAAAAAA wai don tyu gedit?
20:10:59 <shachaf> What's funny?
20:11:19 <\oren\> `? cons
20:11:22 <HackEgo> Cons are small mammals which, shortly after birth, eat two other mammals. They then live on sunlight and grass, until they are finally removed from existence.
20:11:24 <\oren\> that's funny
20:11:42 <shachaf> Which part?
20:11:45 <shachaf> Sunlight and grass?
20:12:01 <\oren\> imagining the cons as cute little bunnies or somehting
20:12:09 <\oren\> it's funny
20:12:42 <shachaf> you are mistaken hth
20:13:10 <MDude> We don't need to hide the hats?
20:13:27 <shachaf> On the other hand, the other day a person insisted that the joke at the top of http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/bignumbers.html isn't funny.
20:13:38 <shachaf> I didn't understand that. It's a good joke.
20:15:26 <int-e> well it made me laugh.
20:15:47 -!- tromp_ has joined.
20:16:21 <shachaf> The cons?
20:16:35 <int-e> the numbers
20:17:25 <int-e> not sure about the cons... certainly didn't make me laugh
20:17:58 <shachaf> Ah. I agree.
20:20:28 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
20:20:34 <MDude> I set out to make a program in that goes through each counting number, and finds the position of that number's least signifigant binary 1 digit.
20:20:58 <int-e> "counting number"... natural number?
20:21:01 <MDude> But for some reason I'm not able to actually accomplush that?
20:21:12 <int-e> MDude: it won't terminate on 0 hth
20:21:14 <MDude> Baby number? Froth number?
20:21:53 <MDude> Counting numbers ar enatural numbers, sure.
20:21:54 <shachaf> int-e: A counting number is a number used by Count von Count.
20:22:01 <shachaf> He starts counting at 1, so 0 is no problem.
20:22:45 <MDude> Yes, I meant the set that starts with 1.
20:23:33 <int-e> > fix ((1:) . (>>= \x -> [x + 1, 1]))
20:23:35 <lambdabot> [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2...
20:24:50 <MDude> Now, what language is that program?
20:25:12 <MDude> I guess lambda calculus?
20:25:14 <int-e> > fix (concat . transpose . (repeat 1 :) . return . fmap succ) -- roughly the same with a more versatile dictionary
20:25:16 <lambdabot> [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2...
20:26:04 <int-e> lambdabot speaks Haskell
20:26:18 <MDude> I, unfortunately, don't.
20:26:25 <int-e> in any case you didn't specify a programming language.
20:27:02 <MDude> I was looking for an algorithm, not code. :p
20:27:34 <int-e> (arguably I'm cheating because I'm using the fact that the ruler function returns the results of the ruler function, plus one, interleaved with ones.
20:27:38 <int-e> )
20:27:47 <shachaf> How do you want the algorithm specified?
20:28:25 <MDude> Basically I'm trying to make a ruler function to begin with, actually.
20:28:52 <MDude> Because I forgot that just plugging in a name like that would probably get me a result on Wikipedia.
20:29:40 <int-e> > fix((1:).(>>=(:[1]).succ)
20:29:41 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:26:
20:29:42 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
20:29:59 <int-e> > fix((1:).(>>=(:[1]).succ))
20:30:01 <lambdabot> [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2...
20:33:40 <MDude> In this particular case, I'm currently trying to use Smilebasic, but the intent is to emit beeps with frequencies proportional to the result of the ruler function for the value of the time passed since the program began.
20:33:49 <MDude> Since I figure that would sound somewhat muisical.
20:33:50 <int-e> :t popCount
20:33:51 <lambdabot> Bits a => a -> Int
20:34:07 <\oren\> #include "stdio.h"
20:34:07 <\oren\> int f(int x){printf("%d",x);g(x-1);}
20:34:07 <\oren\> int g(int y){int x;for(x=0;x<=y;x++)f(x);}
20:34:08 <\oren\> int main(){g(6);}
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20:34:53 <int-e> > map(succ.popCount.pred.ap(.&.)negate)[1..]
20:34:54 <lambdabot> [1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,5,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,6,1,2,1,3,1,2...
20:36:02 <\oren\> Hmm mine has a base case of 0 but otherwise seems correct
20:36:25 <\oren\> 0102010301020104010201030102010501020103010201040102010301020106010201030102010401020103010201050102010301020104010201030102010
20:36:53 <int-e> so change the x=0 to x=1
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20:37:30 <\oren\> int-e: yeah, then i just need to be able to pass infinity into g()
20:38:10 <int-e> or replace it by for(int x=1;;x++)f(x);
20:38:24 <\oren\> right in the main loop
20:38:46 <int-e> yes, "it" being the contents of the main function
20:38:49 <int-e> sorry.
20:39:44 <\oren\> MDude: does my mutual recursive function help or does SmileBasic not support recursion
20:40:24 <MDude> It supports recursion. Thanks, I hadn't thought to use functions for this.
20:40:38 <MDude> I'll go see if I can translate it.
20:41:19 <shachaf> `wisdom
20:41:20 <shachaf> `wisdom
20:41:22 <shachaf> `wisdom
20:41:22 <shachaf> `wisdom
20:41:23 <shachaf> `wisdom
20:41:31 <MDude> Though if the C version can get stuffed into one line, it migth work as a bytebeat program.
20:41:40 <shachaf> `help
20:41:48 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:41:52 <int-e> all this is ridiculous if you know that x86 (since the 486) have a builtin ruler function (more precisely, a function that can find the "next" set bit to the left or the right in a register, given a startin position)
20:42:06 <HackEgo> No output.
20:42:23 <int-e> ah, unbalanced parenthesis. I'll surely hear about it from oerjan, later. )
20:42:54 <shachaf> [
20:43:16 <shachaf>
20:43:27 <MDude> Guess I should switch to using x86 assambly then?
20:43:31 <shachaf> `icode ⟅
20:44:02 <HackEgo> No output.
20:44:03 <HackEgo> quote//Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
20:44:04 <\oren\>
20:44:10 <HackEgo> composition//composition is where you take morphisms such as Phantom and Hoover from the Pha category and combine them together: Hoover ∘ Phantom.
20:44:10 <HackEgo> remorse//.--. . --- .--. .-.. . / .-- .. - .... / -. --- / .-. . -- --- .-. ... . / .. -. ... .. ... - / --- -. / ... .- -.-- .. -. --. / . ...- . .-. -.-- - .... .. -. --. / .. -. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . --..-- / -... ..- - / --- -. .-.. -.-- / --- -. -.-. . .-.-.-
20:44:12 <HackEgo> ​[U+27C5 LEFT S-SHAPED BAG DELIMITER]
20:45:18 <\oren\>
20:45:20 <\oren\>
20:45:49 <\oren\>
20:45:54 <\oren\>
20:45:56 <\oren\>
20:46:40 <int-e> gcc has __builtin_ctz() to count trailing zeros
20:47:15 <\oren\> int-e: yeah but that won't work above 64
20:48:08 <\oren\> although we'd never actually witness its failure
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20:48:27 <int-e> I'd expect it to work for int128_t
20:48:36 <int-e> but I don't know :P
20:49:47 <shachaf> Why wouldn't you witness failure about 64?
20:51:15 <\oren\> because the program would have to run until it gets there
20:51:36 <shachaf> What's wrong with that?
20:51:51 <\oren\> i'll be dead
20:52:26 <\oren\> 2^64 seconds is much longer than anyone can expect to live
20:53:00 <shachaf> Wait, seconds?
20:53:34 <shachaf> I must've missed something about seconds.
20:53:54 <\oren\> yes. the program is emitting beeps with frequency proportional to the ruler function of the time passed since it was started
20:54:07 <shachaf> beep
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20:55:03 <\oren\> boop bap boop beep boop bap boop bip boop bap boop beep boop bap boop
20:55:41 <\oren\> see? frequency proportional to the ruler function
20:58:30 <\oren\> hellwob_jonas!
21:03:05 <MDude> Trying to translate the C code into Basic, currently getting a stack overfow error.
21:03:45 <MDude> Which I expect to eventually get, but before that ti's a strong of all zeroes.
21:17:10 <MDude> Maybe Smilebasic is dumb when ti comes to using loops withing a recursive function?
21:19:28 <wob_jonas> MDude: what code?
21:19:34 <wob_jonas> and what dialect of basic?
21:19:49 <MDude> \oren\'s code.
21:19:57 <MDude> [15:34:15] <\oren\> #include "stdio.h"
21:19:57 <MDude> [15:34:15] <\oren\> int f(int x){printf("%d",x);g(x-1);}
21:19:57 <MDude> [15:34:15] <\oren\> int g(int y){int x;for(x=0;x<=y;x++)f(x);}
21:19:57 <MDude> [15:34:15] <\oren\> int main(){g(6);}
21:20:24 <MDude> And this one: http://smilebasic.com/
21:20:47 <MDude> I can't use x86 stuff with it since it's for a portable game consol.e
21:20:50 <MDude> *console
21:21:49 <int-e> Clearly you need to write an x86 emulator first... :P
21:21:49 <MDude> But that's just the language I was playing with most recently. IBNIZ or bytebeat would work too.
21:22:07 <wob_jonas> guys, when PayPal says the customer service phone number has the service hours are "8.00 and 4.30 GMT Monday to Friday", does that mean they are intervals between 08:00 UTC and 04:30 UTC when the start of the interval falls on Monday to Friday? Or intervals between 08:00 and 16:30 UTC on Monday to Friday?
21:22:07 <wob_jonas> or something else entirely?
21:22:20 <MDude> Bytebeat being a one-line C program that can run on something like http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/
21:23:05 <int-e> . o O ( you have to call at precisely those times )
21:26:35 <wob_jonas> int-e: apart from how it's impossible to call at precisely a given time, it says specifically "Our Service Hours"
21:27:12 <wob_jonas> MDude: and can you show us your Basic translation?
21:27:50 <int-e> 'Poland PayPal phone number: 00 353 1 436 9001; 08:00 - 16:30 GMT Monday - Friday'
21:28:23 <wob_jonas> int-e: I see. That seems clearer.
21:28:23 <int-e> random, unaffiliated page, cross-check with another source
21:28:42 <wob_jonas> sure, the phone number *is* here, I will use that
21:28:47 <int-e> but at least it's clearly a range in that version.
21:28:53 <wob_jonas> and it can reasonably be different in different countries
21:29:13 <wob_jonas> and they could even have different service hours for different combinations of countries and/or languages
21:30:01 <int-e> they do, apparently
21:30:21 <int-e> but perhaps they've combined several "small" countries and are handling them from the same call center
21:30:38 <int-e> (using GMT is a bit odd, imho)
21:30:39 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes
21:30:59 <wob_jonas> why? using GMT totally makes sense
21:31:04 <wob_jonas> I can use paypal from different timezones
21:34:49 <int-e> well, they list local times for many other countries
21:43:20 <wob_jonas> MDude: this seems like a strange an powerful dialect of Basic
21:43:55 <wob_jonas> strange in the sense that it has strange syntax for constructs that already have different syntax in other Basics
21:45:24 <wob_jonas> MDude: anyway, I'd like to see your translation
21:46:20 <wob_jonas> and powerful in the sense that it has a lot of useful builtins that other basics don't have
21:48:04 <wob_jonas> I wonder what numeric type(s) this has
21:49:30 <wob_jonas> "This product uses double-precision real-type numbers or integers to represent values internally." -- they could be a bit more concrete than that...
21:51:31 <wob_jonas> but maybe I'm jut not familiar with enough dialects of basic
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22:12:57 <int-e> heh, ARM has an instruction for counting leading zeros (since v5?)... and one for reversing bits... (since v6?)
22:14:57 <wob_jonas> int-e: sure, ARM actually has more choices of vector instructions and strange integer operations (including simd ones) on general registers than x86 before AVX2, possibly even than x86 before AVX512
22:15:52 <wob_jonas> as in, although the x86 instruction set is powerful enough for most practical programs, the ARM ones are more orthogonal and have a lot of sort of redundant instructions
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22:17:14 <wob_jonas> but mind you, x86 has had instruction for counting leading zeros in a general register since way back in 386, and had a new (better) instruction for that in future versions too, and also has a general register big reverse instruction in some recent instruction set extension
22:17:45 <wob_jonas> int-e: the leading zero count is actually very useful (bit reverse comes up much less often)
22:18:48 <int-e> the reason I found this is that together they can count trailing zeros, which is essentially the ruler function
22:19:18 <wob_jonas> as in, bit reverse has very few applications, and enough efficient ways to emulate from other instructions that it doesn't seem to be too useful an addition, although it's sort of borderline
22:20:04 <wob_jonas> int-e: x86 has both count leading and count trailing zeros functions
22:20:09 <wob_jonas> as instructions
22:20:31 <int-e> hmm maybe bit reversal is good for indexing into the results of medium-sized FFTs.
22:20:48 <int-e> wob_jonas: see above.
22:21:31 <int-e> they do more, actually; bsf and bsr find the next/previous set bit in a word from a starting index.
22:21:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:22:12 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, but that doesn't add too much more power (together with other instructions that is)
22:22:36 <int-e> it was more powerful in the 90s when they were introduced :P
22:25:08 <int-e> and then there's the very CISCy bt (bit test) instruction... it's harmless enough on registers... used on memory, it actually supports larger offsets than 32 (or 64)
22:25:49 <int-e> so useful for indexing bit vectors
22:26:00 <wob_jonas> int-e: the 386 bit search instructions are ugly CISCy too
22:27:09 <wob_jonas> and sure, a lot of the x86 things made much more sense in the past
22:27:53 <int-e> darn, somehow I thought this was one of the 486 additions. not that it matters much these days
22:28:01 <wob_jonas> in a very few cases the CISCy design of x86 is so obsolate that new features already don't make sense when they were introduced, but usually they only don't make sense half a decade later
22:28:28 <int-e> `? obsolate
22:28:31 <HackEgo> obsolate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:28:37 <wob_jonas> int-e: what was 486 addition in particular? don't believe the details I say without checking
22:29:03 <wob_jonas> did I misspell or misuse that word?
22:29:24 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_instruction_listings#Added_with_80486
22:29:29 <int-e> wob_jonas: "obsolete"
22:29:39 <int-e> but the "late" in there made it look almost intentional
22:29:44 <wob_jonas> ah
22:29:49 <pikhq> IIRC the big 486 ISA additions were atomics.
22:30:00 <wob_jonas> I didn't say it because of "late"
22:30:10 <int-e> bswap is nice too
22:30:26 <wob_jonas> it just seems like a weak vowel do I don't remember the spelling
22:30:31 <wob_jonas> pikhq: yes, definitely
22:30:51 <pikhq> Yeah, but that's more a nicety. The atomics are big because they introduce functionality that fundamentally wasn't there before.
22:31:10 <pikhq> While you could do bswap yourself, just not as nicely.
22:32:25 <int-e> 486 also added SMM to the mainline processors... another GREAT design decision.
22:33:09 <wob_jonas> also, isn't 486 the first generation that has a variant with the x87 built-in as opposed to a separate chip?
22:33:20 <int-e> yes
22:34:03 <wob_jonas> I assume that comes with performance advantage
22:34:24 <int-e> and the last generation which offered a split version (486SX and 487 coprocessor... I've read that early 487 were actually full-blown 486 with some fuse blown)
22:34:58 <wob_jonas> I didn't know it had a split version
22:34:58 <wob_jonas> but ok
22:35:28 <wob_jonas> it makes sense that it was the last generation with a split version, because the x87 was always present on the pentium, right?
22:36:18 <wob_jonas> which was the first version that made the x87 synchronization WAIT instruction redundant?
22:36:20 <int-e> yes. and then they started adding to it... MMX.... etc.
22:36:32 <int-e> FWAIT. that too.
22:36:43 <wob_jonas> MMX is a bit later than the first pentiums
22:36:48 <wob_jonas> oh yes, FWAIT
22:37:20 <int-e> It's just that I have fond memories of a Pentium MMX PC :P
22:37:35 <wob_jonas> I see
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23:04:13 <shachaf> `quote
23:04:14 <shachaf> `quote
23:04:15 <shachaf> `quote
23:04:15 <shachaf> `quote
23:04:16 <shachaf> `quote
23:05:21 <HackEgo> 1075) <+kmc> my girlfriend served as an adult control subject for some behavioral research on children [...] <+kmc> she did live on psych studies for a year yeah <Jafet> Is there a control protocol where you don't use people who live off being sociology test subjects
23:05:40 <HackEgo> 916) <elliott> ~eval 1+2 <cuttlefish> Error (127): <elliott> this is a great bot boily i love it
23:05:40 <HackEgo> 93) <fungot> pikhq: from csh type ' exit', is a simple protocol which provides an interface to c. [...]
23:05:40 <HackEgo> 218) <xplat> so you have legacy software in befunge that needs supported?
23:05:41 <HackEgo> 105) <oklopol> but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well
23:05:44 <int-e> . o O ( <HackEgo> WHO DARES TO WAKE ME FROM MY SLUMBER?! )
23:09:56 -!- cocoabotter has joined.
23:10:19 <cocoabotter> ##fpga
23:12:00 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
23:13:39 <ais523> hmm, someone I've never seen before joins this channel and randomly posts a link to another, unexplained
23:13:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:13:52 <ais523> and yet I don't think it's a spambot because the channel link is pretty close to ontopic, which wouldn't normally happen
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23:24:51 <ais523> hmm, I just got a spam mail that's recruiting for the Illuminati
23:25:00 <ais523> or claims to be, at least
23:25:09 <ais523> this is pretty creative as spam goes
23:25:28 <Sgeo> Reading about the historical illuminati, they seem kind of cool (unless I'm missing something)? And dead.
23:25:49 <ais523> maybe I should make a "best of spam" folder
23:27:43 <shachaf> I remember the first pyramid spam I got. It was great.
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23:39:43 <MDude> Well, I figured out how to make the code work before dinner.
23:39:57 <MDude> Part of it was of course fixing a typo in a loop variable.
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2016-07-07
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01:35:35 <oerjan> <shachaf> \oren\: Why write to the root directory rather than to tmp/? <-- if you ever get people to do that, it'll be so fun when they hit the tmp/ mv bug.
01:36:02 <shachaf> "bug"?
01:36:21 <shachaf> Anyway that file didn't look like it was even intended to be used.
01:36:26 <shachaf> `ls
01:36:41 <oerjan> true, but it's a dangerous habit if you don't know what you're doing.
01:36:57 <HackEgo> ​!\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
01:37:02 <shachaf> not knowing what you're doing is a dangerous habit hth
01:37:09 <shachaf> `hoag test
01:37:09 <oerjan> `file test
01:37:27 <oerjan> i suspect that file was never written anyway.
01:37:35 <HackEgo> test: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x6ac7051385eeb76321be46a3b04a8a608b00d31c, not stripped
01:37:41 <HackEgo> No output.
01:37:52 <oerjan> shachaf: the difference is, that with almost any other mistake in HackEgo, you can `revert.
01:38:15 <shachaf> Sure, but you can always reconstruct what happened, since you made the tmp/ file in public.
01:38:16 <oerjan> and not lose information.
01:38:23 <shachaf> Since HackEgo modifications are always in public.
01:38:24 <shachaf> Right?
01:38:47 <oerjan> i wouldn't expect that apply to tmp/ if people used it for scratch.
01:39:05 <oerjan> in fact it would be the perfect place to try out things.
01:39:17 <quintopia> what does mv in tmp do?
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01:40:05 <shachaf> `hoag test
01:40:09 <HackEgo> ​<\oren\> ` echo -e \'#include <stdio.h>\\nint main(){printf("hello\\\\n");int i=30;printf("this won\'\\\'\'t work\\\\n");}\' | gcc -std=c90 -xc -otest - \ <shachaf> rm test \ <oerjan> touch test \ <hppavilion[1]> rm test \ <Moon_> mkx test//moonwashere \ <shachaf> rm test \ <shachaf> ` echo b > test \ <shachaf> ` echo a > test \ <oerjan> rm-p te
01:40:15 <oerjan> quintopia: because of HackEgo's lock-and-rerun mechanism, it wipes out the tmp file with no trace.
01:40:21 <shachaf> `rm test
01:40:25 <HackEgo> No output.
01:40:37 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, we can fix that by having mv check if its first argument is in tmp/.
01:40:40 <oerjan> oh it did add one.
01:40:43 <oerjan> shachaf: true.
01:40:53 <shachaf> I guess we can't fix `mv, though.
01:40:55 <shachaf> Or can we?
01:40:58 <shachaf> `` echo $PATH
01:41:00 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
01:41:05 <shachaf> I guess we can.
01:41:10 <oerjan> shachaf: except some people here like to use mv -v
01:41:30 <shachaf> a?
01:41:37 <shachaf> Hmm.
01:41:39 <shachaf> mv -v?
01:41:52 <oerjan> it tells whether it actually did something.
01:42:08 <oerjan> with HackEgo timing out all the time, a good practice.
01:42:29 <shachaf> Well, a fancy mv can still support that.
01:45:39 <oerjan> hm...
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02:16:36 <oerjan> :t (>>-)
02:16:37 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘>>-’
02:16:37 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
02:16:37 <lambdabot> ‘>>’ (imported from Control.Monad.Writer),
02:17:58 <oerjan> huh lambdabot no longer imports logict?
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02:18:22 <oerjan> :t interleave
02:18:23 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘interleave’
02:18:29 <oerjan> scow.
02:19:11 <oerjan> :t Control.Monad.Logic.interleave
02:19:12 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Logic.Class.MonadLogic m => m a -> m a -> m a
02:24:06 <oerjan> > [1..]Control.Monad.Logic.>>-repeat
02:24:08 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘Control.Monad.Logic.>>-’
02:24:08 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
02:24:08 <lambdabot> ‘Control.Monad.Cont.>>’ (imported from Control.Monad.Cont),
02:24:39 <oerjan> @ask int-e why isn't Control.Monad.Logic in lambdabot tdnh
02:24:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:34:56 * oerjan had got the misguided impression cabal-install now supported incremental cabal update.
02:35:08 <oerjan> but it seemed to take as long as last time.
02:35:29 <oerjan> (was just testing my line above)
02:36:13 <oerjan> @tell int-e [1..]Control.Monad.Logic.>>-repeat
02:36:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:36:48 <oerjan> of course that relies on a very specific implementation of >>- for lists.
02:37:41 <oerjan> > [1..]CML.>>-repeat
02:37:43 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘CML.>>-’
02:37:48 <oerjan> > [1..]L.>>-repeat
02:37:49 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘L.>>-’
02:38:07 <oerjan> @where L.hs
02:38:07 <lambdabot> What lambdabot has in scope is at <https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/blob/config/lambdabot/State/Pristine.hs>
02:38:16 <oerjan> yay that worked
02:38:41 <oerjan> except for the 404ing
02:44:27 <oerjan> @tell int-e @where L.hs lies tdnh
02:44:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:48:10 <oerjan> :t (^.)
02:48:11 <lambdabot> s -> Getting a s a -> a
02:48:40 <oerjan> well the one i found at lambdabot/lambdabot is not right, anyway. (no lens)
02:48:47 <oerjan> > (^.)
02:48:49 <lambdabot> No instance for (Typeable s0)
02:48:49 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M668101704439807834720385’
02:48:49 <lambdabot> In the expression:
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03:12:16 <oerjan> `? obsolate
03:12:19 <HackEgo> obsolate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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04:08:17 <shachaf> Wait, rdococ is HaliteBird?
04:11:54 <oerjan> i wouldn't know.
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04:41:21 <hppavilion[1]> "One pound is one kilogram." -- Randall Munroe
04:41:48 <oerjan> well that's about half right.
04:42:19 <shachaf> or is it about 2 right?
04:42:21 <pikhq> Well, in the context of order of magnitude estimation, it's not wrong.
04:43:13 <shachaf> pikhq: any pooch news?
04:43:31 <shachaf> Hmm, wrong channel.
04:44:03 <oerjan> pikhq: fermily agreed
04:44:17 <quintopia> oerjan: is obsolate a word to describe very old people just after they die?
04:45:02 <oerjan> quintopia: well that wasn't the use in the logs.
04:45:35 <oerjan> . o O ( ^style doggy )
04:46:07 <shachaf> oerjan: this isn't even the first time you made that joke hth
04:46:14 <oerjan> it isn't?
04:46:22 <shachaf> I don't believe so.
04:46:32 <oerjan> has this channel been going to the dogs for this long
04:47:24 <shachaf> I was going to make some "posthumous" pun in response to quintopia.
04:47:29 <shachaf> But I couldn't think of a good one.
04:50:33 <oerjan> you shouldn't joke about dead people. that's posthumorous.
04:50:58 <shachaf> Yes, that one was a candidate.
04:51:06 <shachaf> But neither of us could make it work.
04:51:11 <oerjan> ic
04:51:22 <shachaf> Sorry, I oughtn't be rude for no reason.
04:51:43 <quintopia> shachaf: maybe you can be helpful instead?
04:51:44 <oerjan> i realised immediately it should have been s/that's/they're/ hth
04:51:50 <quintopia> what's a verb or verb phrase for when you are fired because your employer no longer needs *anyone* to do the job you were doing?
04:53:02 <oerjan> unless they've died after eating middle east cuisine, then they're posthummus.
04:53:13 <\oren\> quintopia: downsized
04:53:35 <\oren\> quintopia: position eliminated
04:54:43 <quintopia> oerjan: or if they are left in the woods to rot, decompose entirely, and be washed away in rainstorm, in which case they are posthumus
04:55:01 <shachaf> quintopia: I can't hope to be as helpful as oerjan.
04:55:12 <shachaf> Not can I help to be as hopeful as oerjan.
04:55:19 <shachaf> oerjan mostly hopes that helps.
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05:14:10 <quintopia> `? hth
05:14:54 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
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06:08:40 <oerjan> *POOF*
06:10:11 <izabera> what happened?!
06:10:28 <oerjan> lambdabot quit tdnh
06:11:12 <alercah> mniip found a vuln
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06:11:21 <izabera> another one?!
06:11:31 <alercah> some unicode crap
06:11:39 <izabera> what crap?!
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06:12:04 <alercah> < mniip> @let data QUIT = QUIT
06:12:10 <alercah> < mniip> @let data Њ a b = Њ a b
06:12:16 <alercah> < mniip> :t Њ QUIT (Њ () ())
06:12:22 <alercah> -!- lambdabot [~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot] has quit [Quit: (]
06:12:24 <izabera> oh
06:12:29 <izabera> wow
06:12:37 <oerjan> what
06:12:39 <alercah> `unidecode Њ
06:12:54 <HackEgo> ​[U+040A CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER NJE]
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06:13:08 <oerjan> ^ord Њ
06:13:08 <fungot> 208 138
06:13:16 <izabera> possibly a different encoding?
06:13:24 <izabera> one that contains a \n somewhere?
06:13:43 <oerjan> well ghc haskell uses utf-8
06:13:47 <oerjan> so that seems unlikely
06:14:09 <oerjan> hm
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06:15:00 <oerjan> @let data A = A; data B = B
06:15:08 <oerjan> :t B A (B () ())
06:15:19 <oerjan> lambdabot:
06:15:36 <oerjan> hmph
06:16:12 <oerjan> wait what
06:16:16 <izabera> anyway i'm mostly amazed by the fact that people actually understand haskell
06:16:20 <oerjan> > "hi"
06:16:27 <oerjan> it seems locked up :(
06:18:01 <oerjan> alercah: did it really quit immediately after that?
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06:18:08 <alercah> oerjan: yes
06:18:21 <oerjan> `unidecode QUIT
06:18:28 <alercah> mniip had it deafen itself to protect against someone abusing it to e.g. steal the account
06:18:41 <oerjan> oh
06:18:45 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0051 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Q] [U+0055 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U] [U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I] [U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T] [U+0020 SPACE]
06:19:11 <oerjan> alercah: hmph. you're supposed to make it quit twice.
06:19:16 <oerjan> then it won't rejoin.
06:20:08 <oerjan> i guess +g works.
06:21:03 <oerjan> `ord Њ
06:21:10 <oerjan> oh wait i see
06:21:10 <HackEgo> 1034
06:21:17 <oerjan> it's 1024 + 10
06:21:45 <oerjan> and it gets printed cast to 8 bit
06:22:06 <oerjan> alercah: has someone told int-e (who seems asleep) what happened?
06:22:30 <alercah> dunno
06:22:38 <oerjan> hm @tell won't work :P
06:23:10 <oerjan> i'll try memoserv
06:25:00 <oerjan> ...he's disabled it.
06:25:19 <oerjan> fine, github next ->
06:26:38 <oerjan> hm i see no way to contact him there
06:27:54 <oerjan> do i have his email somewhere...
06:29:27 <oerjan> not that i can see
06:30:29 <oerjan> i'm not sure i want to say this in a more public place
06:31:45 <alercah> oerjan: was pinged in #haskell
06:32:00 <oerjan> alercah: well...
06:32:22 <oerjan> oh well i suppose he won't get it any earlier otherwise
06:34:21 <oerjan> i guess this is what happens when every module in lambdabot is supposed to handle its own output issues.
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06:58:56 <shachaf> deafen?
06:59:19 <shachaf> Ah, server-side ignore.
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07:31:57 <oerjan> someone just woke up
07:32:07 <pikhq> Orly?
07:32:36 <oerjan> pikhq: int-e has a security vulnerability in lambdabot to handle today.
07:33:39 <pikhq> Ah.
07:33:47 <pikhq> Curious what the vuln was.
07:33:55 <pikhq> Something to do with UTF-8?
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07:34:46 <oerjan> pikhq: :t prints its output converted from codepoints to 8-bit and no \n check seems to be applied after that
07:34:58 <pikhq> *Oh*.
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07:35:19 <oerjan> so someone discovered the Њ
07:35:22 <oerjan> character
07:35:24 <pikhq> So it's serializing as UTF-8 incorrectly?
07:36:01 <oerjan> pikhq: no, it's serializing codepoints as 8bit clamped
07:36:18 <pikhq> Well that is "incorrectly". :P
07:36:23 <oerjan> i suppose :P
07:36:55 <oerjan> more disturbing is that this important check isn't applied uniformly to all lambdabot modules.
07:37:56 <oerjan> > 1
07:37:58 <lambdabot> 1
07:38:14 <oerjan> :t Proxy :: Proxy "hi"
07:38:15 <lambdabot> Proxy "hi"
07:38:47 <oerjan> :t Proxy :: Proxy "ЊPING"
07:38:48 <lambdabot> Proxy "\1034PING"
07:39:00 <oerjan> looks better
07:39:03 <oerjan> or wait
07:39:17 <oerjan> that gets passed through show
07:39:20 <oerjan> hm...
07:40:05 <oerjan> i guess it really does need at least one @let first
07:40:06 <Cale> @let data Њ = Њ
07:40:07 <lambdabot> .L.hs:169:1:
07:40:07 <lambdabot> Multiple declarations of ‘Њ’
07:40:07 <lambdabot> Declared at: .L.hs:155:1
07:40:11 <Cale> hah
07:40:36 <oerjan> @let data ЊPING = ЊPING
07:40:37 <lambdabot> Defined.
07:40:43 <oerjan> :t ЊPING
07:40:44 <lambdabot> PING
07:40:49 <shachaf> lambdabot is a mess.
07:41:01 <oerjan> someone fixed it speedily >:)
07:41:24 <shachaf> Is int-e online?
07:41:30 <Cale> yes, he is
07:41:40 <oerjan> int-e: does your fix work for all lambdabot modules, else someone might find another loophole...
07:42:17 <Cale> @pl ЊPING
07:42:18 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 2):
07:42:18 <lambdabot> unexpected '\138'
07:42:18 <lambdabot> expecting letter or digit, variable, "(", operator or end of input
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07:42:36 <Cale> @pl xЊPING
07:42:40 <int-e> oerjan: it's on the IRC connection level
07:42:49 <oerjan> int-e: good
07:43:26 <int-e> and while I am at it that's also the perfect place to get rid of the CTCP and color codes :P
07:43:37 <oerjan> AWWW
07:44:31 <oerjan> int-e: hey careful not to break @time
07:44:52 <int-e> well, it's just filtering some bytes.
07:45:05 <int-e> so you'll still get *some* output.
07:45:15 <oerjan> i mean that @time uses CTCP to do its job
07:45:41 <int-e> oh, right, hmm.
07:46:08 <int-e> yep, I just broke that :P
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07:48:55 <oerjan> also, ACTIONs, i'm not sure if any commands officially support those though
07:49:27 <shachaf> Well, @time is kind of silly.
07:49:44 <oerjan> Y U HATE TIME
07:49:52 <shachaf> You can always use ctcp directly.
07:51:25 <oerjan> that's not very demonstrative tdnh
07:51:25 <int-e> okay, fine, CTCP can stay for now while I mull over it
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