00:29:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:00:11 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:07:22 -!- IhopE has joined.
01:07:46 <EhirD`> how's the spec going? :P
01:09:00 <EhirD`> Bsmntbombdoo Dickinson
01:10:10 -!- IhopE has changed nick to ihope.
01:10:24 <ihope> I can't be Ihop Elliotson anymore?
01:10:47 <ihope> And what do you mean, how's the spec coming? Look for yourself :-P
01:11:21 <ihope> (Which quite possibly came out much more rude than I intended it to be. Sorry.)
01:12:17 <EhirD`> Look for myself where?
01:12:55 <ihope> Yes, wikiwikiwikiwiki.
01:12:59 <ihope> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Redivider
01:13:28 <EhirD`> (Also, I just remembered why I put bracket parameters after normal parameters. Empty parameter lists are still optional.)
01:13:50 <ihope> That way, you can put a bracket parameter after any parser, not just functions.
01:14:32 <ihope> Now you can do stuff like /[a-z]*/["foo bar"]
01:14:43 <EhirD`> you still can with my semantics
01:15:23 <ihope> Were you essentially proposing foo[blah](...) as an alternative to foo(...)[blah]?
01:15:34 <EhirD`> parser() - parse parser with current string 0 args
01:15:34 <EhirD`> parser[x] - parse parser with x 0 args
01:15:34 <EhirD`> parser[x]() - see above
01:15:34 <EhirD`> parser(a,b) - parse parser with a,b args
01:15:34 <EhirD`> parser[x](a,b) - parse parser with x string, a,b args
01:15:54 <EhirD`> my main addition is parser[x] shorthand, and putting the [] before () because it looks nicer
01:16:11 <ihope> So essentially, yes, you were.
01:16:34 <EhirD`> Yes, what did you think I was saying
01:29:13 -!- EhirD` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:40:33 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
02:14:27 * pikhq returns from candy duty. . .
02:16:01 <oerjan> hm, actually it isn't any more here
02:17:05 <pikhq> People came 10 at a time to uor house. . .
02:17:14 <pikhq> Thus, it ran out *really* quickly.
02:18:05 <bsmntbombdood> now my mom is telling me i can't listen to music so i can hear the doorbell
02:18:52 <oerjan> the obvious solution is to hook the doorbell to the internet
02:19:49 <bsmntbombdood> but it would only be used for one night, so not worth it
02:19:58 <pikhq> The better solution is to hook the doorbell to a candy-serving robot.
02:38:54 <oerjan> > let perms l = concat $ map (\(h,r) -> map ([h] ++) (perms r)) $ pick l in perms [1,2,3,4]
02:48:08 <ihope> Set out the bowl of candy and let them help themselves?
02:48:28 <ihope> Sure, somebody might take the whole thing, but then you can claim to be all out.
02:51:02 <bsmntbombdood> i think i'm supposed to appear freindly or somesuch
02:52:23 <GregorR> I get full-size or even king-size candy bars, then beat them with them.
02:52:32 <GregorR> That is, beat the kids with the candy bars.
02:52:37 <GregorR> They're both scared and happy.
02:59:26 <ihope> Appear friendly by posting a sign instead of turning them away? :-P
03:06:32 <pikhq> I'll do that at college. :p
04:51:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:51:14 -!- oerjan has joined.
04:51:34 -!- zbrown has joined.
04:53:29 -!- zbrown has left (?).
05:03:49 -!- Axle has joined.
05:04:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
05:05:38 -!- Axle has quit (Client Quit).
06:38:11 -!- immibis has joined.
07:25:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good sleepcycle").
07:35:18 <immibis> does anyone here have any experience with the GBA direct sound channels?
07:43:05 <immibis> i try to play music with them but you can barely hear the music over the static.
07:51:10 -!- immibis has left (?).
07:56:51 -!- toBogE has joined.
07:57:11 <toBogE> --immibis-- toBogE now forwards /notices!
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:03:43 <toBogE> --immibis-- and anything said on this channel is forwarded to me so i don't have to be in this channel.
08:04:06 -!- toBogE has left (?).
08:04:24 -!- immibis has joined.
08:23:54 -!- adrian has joined.
08:25:16 <adrian> friends, i would like to get an advice from you, i want to learn a new programming lenguage to do comercial software, what do you recoomend?
08:34:52 -!- adrian has left (?).
08:57:04 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b).
09:10:19 -!- Tritonio has joined.
09:24:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
09:50:15 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal").
09:51:50 -!- puzzlet has joined.
10:05:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:44:10 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:12:11 -!- RedDak has joined.
12:33:59 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined.
12:52:57 -!- jix has joined.
13:00:47 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
13:01:23 -!- jix has joined.
13:22:19 -!- AnMaster has quit ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)").
13:25:30 -!- AnMaster has joined.
13:30:35 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:57:10 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:46:03 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:49:22 -!- Tritonio has joined.
16:17:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:29:38 -!- RedDak has joined.
16:34:09 <GregorR> HEY KAN BRAINFUCK ACCESS WIN32 API KTHX
16:37:28 <oerjan> what, do we have esocats now?
16:38:15 <GregorR> A long time ago, in a galaxy surprisingly nearby (here, in fact), somebody asked if Brainfuck can access the Win32 API.
16:41:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:15:24 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined.
17:20:00 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit (Client Quit).
17:24:17 -!- ehird` has joined.
17:27:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
17:27:25 -!- jix has joined.
18:03:38 <ehird`> ihope: i am going to write a game of life in your language :)
18:42:36 -!- bartw has quit (Success).
19:34:14 -!- oerjan has quit ("Hopefully catching bus").
20:00:43 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:08:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:27:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
20:40:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:20:16 <ehird`> ihope: how is redivider going?
21:20:53 <ehird`> as far as progress on the spec goes
21:21:01 <ehird`> (mainly, including my parser call syntax ;))
21:21:32 <ehird`> (also, including more high-level semantics - like "if a "main" parser is present, it is called with an empty string, otherwise an implementation-defined REPL is presented")
21:22:17 <ihope> And general cleanupping?
21:22:56 <ehird`> you do not DEFINE the semantics of regex's
21:23:09 <ehird`> you say "if the regex does not match" -- but what defines matching and non-matching?
21:23:39 <ehird`> also, "the characters .|*()[^-]$ might not represent themselves" -- when might they? Apart from that, the spec looks very good
21:23:52 <ihope> Yeah, I'll probably want to actually define those.
21:24:23 <ehird`> Because, you know, there's regexps, and there's crazy regexps... and there's Perl regexps :)
21:24:37 <ehird`> Presumably, you want the former - simple, actually-are-regular regexes
21:25:07 <ehird`> Redivider's paradigm is very interesting though
21:25:35 <ihope> Regexes that are regular expressions :-)
21:25:49 <ehird`> Fleshed out with a little more syntax and semantics, plus lots of stdlib (of course i'm not saying you should do this, it's an esolang :) but imagine) and it could be very interesting for actual programming
21:48:26 -!- RedDak has joined.
22:04:35 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
22:33:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:44:50 -!- importantshock has joined.
00:07:32 -!- ihope_ has joined.
00:08:11 <Sgeo> Hi RedDak, bsmntbom1dood, oerjan, importantshock, and PancakeHouse..
00:08:38 <Sgeo> Just saying hi while ignoring the timestamps completely :/
00:15:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit.
00:15:30 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
00:16:01 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:39:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:10:11 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
01:31:08 <ihope_> Gasp! Who smiled at me?
01:42:24 <pikhq> ehird`: Any progress on pebble.pebble?
01:44:43 <bsmntbombdood> this song goes duh duh duh, duh duh duh duh duh duh
01:45:50 <oerjan> Ritorna Vincitor from Aida?
01:47:56 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:58:06 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: I am extremely curious to see how the self-hosting pebble implementation fares
02:05:25 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd hazard a loose guess somewhere around 6mb of BF code
02:05:48 <pikhq> Although I find that PEBBLE code manages to be a bit more efficient than BFBASIC. . .
02:06:02 <pikhq> (lower level, though)
02:08:22 <RodgerTheGreat> a text adventure game written in calamari's astounding BFBASIC
02:09:37 <RodgerTheGreat> http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html
02:11:26 <pikhq> It inspired my little bit of a game in PEBBLE.
02:11:41 <pikhq> My engine kicks ass, but my game lacks. . . Anything. :p
02:13:46 <RodgerTheGreat> if you want some help coming up with an actual story or something, I might be able to help
02:15:10 <pikhq> I may desire that some time when I have time. . .
02:15:30 <pikhq> Perhaps Christmas break, or Thanksgiving break, would be a good time to write & implement that.
02:16:24 <RodgerTheGreat> I'll brainstorm some stuff over thanksgiving, but as a general policy I don't connect to the internet while I'm on vacation
02:16:44 <RodgerTheGreat> I generally code something amazing in my self-induced isolation
03:00:18 -!- cpressey has joined.
03:00:37 * pikhq votes for scaring the hell out of cpressey
03:00:54 * oerjan refuses to scare a Great One
03:01:09 <pikhq> cpressey == Great One?
03:01:38 <cpressey> http://catseye.tc/cpressey/languages.html
03:02:39 * pikhq makes the bow deeper. . .
03:03:51 <oerjan> hm, ALPACA is not mentioned on the Chris Pressey page on the wiki.
03:05:59 * pikhq goes back to wondering how ehird is going to pull off PEBBLE in PEBBLE.
03:06:08 <oerjan> well ihope_'s redivider and ehird's plan to self-host PEBBLE seems the current rages
03:06:51 <cpressey> i've been out of the loop for a while
03:07:12 <pikhq> Given that I've never seen you here before, and I've been here for over a year, I'd say so. ;)
03:08:27 <cpressey> i have a good excuse... i was busy finishing up my degree :)
03:08:35 <oerjan> i've seen cpressey do some wiki posting
03:08:55 <lament> cpressey: done studying?
03:08:55 <pikhq> Hmm. . . Someone who has *not* heard of PEBBLE yet. :p
03:09:20 <cpressey> i'm currently stuck in southern ontario, but i got a laptop and have been working on esolangs.
03:09:28 <oerjan> oh dear. cpressey, RUN!
03:09:43 <cpressey> lament: yep, i don't officially graduate until december, but i've completed my requirements
03:10:16 <oerjan> <pikhq> Hmm. . . Someone who has *not* heard of PEBBLE yet. :p
03:10:18 <cpressey> pikhq: btw, there doesn't seem to be an eso wiki entry for PEBBLE
03:10:31 <lament> cpressey: which university do you graduate from?
03:10:39 <pikhq> (too lazy to write one. . .)
03:10:48 <cpressey> lament: was that a trick question? :)
03:11:03 <pikhq> PEBBLE is a Brainfuck-targetting macro language I've devised. I'm kinda proud of it.
03:11:18 <cpressey> although i guess i had credits from before... but it's the university you finish at that counts
03:11:33 <lament> cpressey: i thought maybe you changed universities again, if you're in southern ontario
03:12:00 <cpressey> lament: ah, i see. no, i'm in ON for completely different reasons.
03:12:18 <pikhq> Now if we can get Gregor to talk, we can have a party of esolang designers. :p
03:12:36 <cpressey> wouter showed up on here once too
03:12:39 <pikhq> (and our local dieties, for that matter)
03:12:47 <cpressey> but it was once, and it was while i was asleep
03:13:00 <lament> he used to be a regular
03:13:28 <bsmntbombdood> Acme super-fiber drinks and shakes keep me regular!
03:13:43 <lament> maybe not regular, but he showed up more than once :D
03:13:53 <RodgerTheGreat> I humbly offer this piece of syntax: [clear 1 disp 0 1 !fibo] :run [copy rollup add copy disp copy 144 nequ [!fibo] if] :fibo !run
03:14:28 <pikhq> I offer this syntax instead: source ^stdcons.bfm;@ temp1;@ temp2;stringout "Hello, world!\n" : temp1 temp2
03:15:32 <cpressey> wow, i have no gnarly syntax to offer in return
03:15:42 <lament> cpressey: have you looked at all the nonsense about the wolfram research prize?
03:17:01 <lament> cpressey: it seems there's a question of whether to allow infinite initial conditions, and if so then of what kind
03:17:21 <pikhq> Ask ais523 if he shows up again.
03:17:28 <cpressey> oh, you have my blessings, except that i feel like i'm in "life of brian" or something
03:18:05 <lament> cpressey: like, a game-of-life turing machine emulator probably needs an infinite tape
03:18:11 <oerjan> infinite initial conditions seem fair enough, it was used for wolfram's r110 as well but there i think it was simply repeating in each direction
03:18:12 <lament> cpressey: so it seems fair to allow that
03:18:15 <cpressey> lament: yeah, i think i thought about that at some point in the summer
03:18:21 <RodgerTheGreat> sweet, now I can add "BLESSED BY A GREAT ONE" to the Sprocket manual.
03:18:50 <cpressey> lament: but there need to be limits on what the infinite initial configuration is
03:18:52 <lament> oerjan: well, if you allow arbitrary infinite initial conditions, then the halting problem can be solved trivially
03:19:10 <lament> so it's a question of how much to allow
03:19:42 * pikhq adds "Blessed by 2 Great Ones" to the PEBBLE docs
03:19:45 <cpressey> i could accept something that can be recognized by a regular expression or maybe even a CFG
03:19:54 * pikhq calls oerjan a great one. :p
03:20:00 <lament> in that case smetana is turing-complete
03:20:42 <lament> you just need infinitely big programs, consisting mostly of identical, except for the numbers that are all shifted equal amount, chunks corresponding to "memory cells"
03:20:51 <cpressey> lament: we've been over this :) the problem is that a smetana program only has a finite number of instructions. i grant you that if there were an infinite number, it could be
03:21:07 <cpressey> lament: we seem to be on the same track
03:21:10 <lament> cpressey: if you allow infinite starting conditions, that's equivalent to allowing infinite programs
03:21:47 <cpressey> lament: ok, maybe we need to clarify something. i have no idea what the wolfram research thingy is, for example
03:22:03 <cpressey> so i might be speaking without knowing what we're talking about exactly
03:22:10 <lament> wolfram wanted a proof that some turing machine is universal
03:22:15 <lament> http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html
03:22:24 <lament> a guy from #esoteric (ais523) proved it
03:23:35 <lament> it's an interesting question, how much complexity can you put in infinite conditions
03:23:50 <lament> clearly "the memory is initialized as an infinite stack of zeros" is perfectly fine :)
03:23:56 <cpressey> man, i did not need to be reminded about how fatuous wolfram is
03:24:22 <cpressey> damn, i can't type quickly enough on this toy kbd
03:24:39 <cpressey> this is the same problem with wolfram's CA - i noticed it earlier
03:25:02 <cpressey> his CA is not TC because there's one thing that a TM can do that his CA can't - that is, halt
03:25:29 <cpressey> he's seriously distorting the definition of Turing-complete by claiming that rule 110 is TC
03:25:50 <lament> yeah, you need an observer smart enough to realize that it "halted"
03:25:56 <lament> together the system is obviously TC
03:26:15 <cpressey> lament: exactly, you need a halting predicate, and implementing that predicate *will take more states* if not more symbols
03:26:38 <pikhq> One could argue that having the cellular automaton stabilise is 'halting'.
03:26:44 <cpressey> bsmntbombdood: not very smart, but just smart enough to make his machine bigger than minksy's :)
03:27:09 <cpressey> pikhq: how do you know that it's stabilized, though?
03:27:43 <oerjan> i'm sure there is some finite automaton to check each generation, isn't there?
03:28:04 <cpressey> actually, this ties in with something else i've been thinking about regarding TM's - they don't need infinte tapes, only expanding tapes.
03:28:39 <pikhq> The two are, for all intents and purposes, the same. . .
03:28:47 <lament> yes, and smetana doesn't need infinite programs, only expanding programs :)
03:28:53 <cpressey> in this case, you can think of an 'initial pattern' as being generated on the tape, every time you extend it
03:29:04 <cpressey> and for that you need some kind of mechanism. more states.
03:29:22 <bsmntbombdood> infinitely expanding tape, which is pretty much the same thing
03:29:38 <cpressey> pikhq, bsmntbombdood: yes. they're equivalent.
03:30:03 * pikhq comments on #esoteric being much more educational than high school. . .
03:30:13 <cpressey> it's mainly tradition that keeps the description of a TM starting off with "Well it has this infinte tape you see, and..."
03:31:07 <cpressey> i mean there's good reasons for it to not have a limit
03:31:35 <cpressey> i agree that ther are definate problems with wolfram's 2,3 machine's "universality"
03:32:21 <cpressey> i would maybe be OK with it being called a kind of universality, but it's not the kind that's used in computabilty theory
03:33:06 <cpressey> in computability theory, people are concerned with decision problems, and semi-decision problems, and that stuff. if you can't halt, though, you can't decide anything.
03:33:54 <lament> i still think smetana is tc :D
03:34:10 <cpressey> lament: fine. for you, it's TC :)
03:34:24 <cpressey> i'll add that stipulation to the language definition :)
03:35:12 <lament> if we allow infinitely repeating initial conditions
03:35:27 <lament> then the only reason _against_ it being TC is if we for some reason treat code differently from data
03:35:32 <bsmntbombdood> can a fsm be turing complete if it has infinite states?
03:35:43 <lament> bsmntbombdood: it can't be a fsm :)
03:35:49 <cpressey> lament: i'm actually perfectly OK with there being a tiny variation on smetana (like, to give it the ability to make new instructions) to let it be TC, but i'd sort of prefer that that variation have a diferent name
03:36:09 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: since the states could include the whole content of a turing tape, yes
03:36:32 <cpressey> pikhq: how about "Etanasmay"? :)
03:36:33 <oerjan> um, i already named it Smetana+1
03:36:41 <lament> cpressey: but why? what's wrong with my logic?
03:37:14 <cpressey> lament: your logic... well, is smallfuck TC?
03:37:23 <lament> cpressey: if we allow infinitely repeating initial conditions for CA, might as well allow them for smetana.
03:37:43 <cpressey> oerjan: i must've missed that.
03:37:52 <lament> after which it can interpret regular brainfuck
03:37:52 <oerjan> was on the mailing list
03:38:27 <cpressey> lament: BUT... CA are generally defined to have *unbounded* playfields. SMETANA is not. like most programming language, the program is assumed to be of fixed size during execution.
03:38:33 <lament> cpressey: the only problem with that is "you can't have infinitely big programs", but how's that different from having infinite starting conditions for a CA?
03:38:48 <cpressey> oerjan: i unsubscribed to it ages ago.
03:39:10 <lament> i'm still subscribed, haven't received any mail in many years
03:39:45 <cpressey> wow, that busy huh? mailing lists were a lot more interesting in the earlier days of the internet than they are now
03:40:36 <oerjan> hm, there's been activity on the esolangs forum
03:40:36 <cpressey> lament: it's not that you can't have infinitely long programs, it's that SMETANA isn't defined for them.
03:41:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
03:41:11 <cpressey> lament: unlike most CA, which, being mathematical beasts, are a bit more flexible, i suppose you could say.
03:41:25 <oerjan> first new post starts with "I wish this forum was more active." :S
03:41:28 <lament> cpressey: so a language just like smetana but allowing infinitely long programs is 1) turing complete 2) capable of being interpreted by, for example, CA, since they allow the entire smetana program to be given as starting conditions
03:41:29 <cpressey> i haven't looked at the forum either
03:41:37 -!- importantshock has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:41:55 <oerjan> it's not usually very active.
03:42:15 <cpressey> lament: in fact, the programs can be infinitely long and blank in all but a finite number of instructions, i thin
03:42:33 <lament> smetana doesn't have blank instructions!
03:42:40 <cpressey> "blank" in SMETANA being something like, Step n. Go to step n. aybe?
03:42:41 <lament> "blank" doesn't even mean anything
03:43:16 <oerjan> cpressey: no, you need the ability to change infinitely many steps, which means there needs to be Swaps referring to them.
03:43:16 <cpressey> "blank" in the sense of "not useful" (unlike the starting configuration of a CA, where you might want an exquisite infinite pattern)
03:44:01 <cpressey> haven't given it much thought, honestly, it's just that lament keeps bugging me about it :)
03:44:33 <oerjan> alternatively, i went one step further with Moldau which really only needs Goto, but where labels are general data structures
03:45:28 <cpressey> oerjan: excellent. i really have been out of the loop
03:45:55 <oerjan> well i never implemented either... as usual.
03:46:25 <cpressey> no wiki entry for Moldau either
03:46:45 <oerjan> it was only on the mailing list too
03:48:30 <cpressey> i've been on an abstact algebra kick lately
03:48:56 <pikhq> I've been on a calculus kick for the past year, myself.
03:49:30 <cpressey> pikhq: managed to work any of it into an esolang? :)
03:50:07 <cpressey> there's some stuff that steve smale (famous-pants mathematician) has done regarding computability in the reals that's kind of interesting
03:50:29 <cpressey> penrose made some remark about how the mandelbrot set is uncomputable or something
03:50:54 * pikhq *must* now make an esolang that nobody else in his high school will understand
03:51:09 -!- Tritonio has joined.
03:51:19 <bsmntbombdood> if anyone in your high school understands brainfuck, you've got a crazy ass highschool
03:51:23 <cpressey> pikhq: i found it interesting that taking derivatives is basicall mechanical but taking antiderivates is... well, not
03:51:35 <pikhq> I'm the guy that understands Brainfuck. :)
03:51:36 <cpressey> but otherwise i suck at calculus
03:51:51 <pikhq> cpressey: I'm quite good at calculus.
03:52:31 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:52:32 <pikhq> I'm not much of a Knight of the Lambda Calculus.
03:52:37 <pikhq> (although I'd love to be one)
03:53:13 <cpressey> now there's a though. try to merge lambda calculus with calculus (real-analysis "regular ol'" calculus)
03:53:22 <bsmntbombdood> i be willing to wager a few day's wages that i'm the only one at my high school that understands unlambda
03:53:33 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: As would I.
03:53:37 <pikhq> I make $0.00 a day.
03:54:18 <cpressey> lament: are you going to graduate soon, as well?
03:54:54 <cpressey> and does jeffrey johnston still hang out here?
03:56:02 <cpressey> i see GregorR and jix and mtve in the userlist, so there's some regulars from days gone by still here it seems
03:57:12 <cpressey> GregorR: hello, hat-wearing moxie-guzzling fellow
03:57:24 * GregorR hasn't had Moxie in far too long :( :( :(
03:57:50 <lament> cpressey: yeah, done courses in december, graduating in may
03:59:36 -!- immibis has joined.
04:00:13 <cpressey> http://catseye.tc/projects/burro/
04:00:30 <cpressey> that's what i've been doing lately.
04:00:42 <cpressey> actually, i've been doing it off and on for the past 2 years
04:01:06 <cpressey> followed by http://catseye.tc/projects/cabra/
04:01:47 <cpressey> excuse the awkward presentation - i am no mathematician
04:01:54 <oerjan> ah, reversible programming
04:02:32 <cpressey> that was sort of an unforseen side-effect of making it a group
04:03:29 <cpressey> and burro programs don't really get reversed so much as they get... annihilated. it's not like they're "rewound", it's more like they never existed (the semantics cancel out to get NOP)
04:03:56 <cpressey> lament: well, i was thinking "potro", but vaca is a good suggestion too
04:04:19 <cpressey> if there is a next one. i'm a bit burnt out on abstract algebra now
04:07:14 <cpressey> RodgerTheGreat: jeez, no wiki entry for Sprocket either?!? :)
04:08:12 <cpressey> RodgerTheGreat: is there a doc i can download somewhere?
04:09:17 <cpressey> RodgerTheGreat: ah... so that's the syntax you sent earlier... gotcha
04:10:18 <cpressey> and dare I ask pikhq about PEBBLE?
04:14:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("rebooting to test an OS").
04:17:19 <oerjan> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/esoteric.php
04:20:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
04:22:43 <cpressey> quite a few languages added to the wiki, too. nice.
04:28:06 <pikhq> At least one of them is mine.
04:32:58 -!- immibis_ has joined.
04:42:12 * pikhq cheers, for Plof no longer has the thick-and-thin functions
04:45:33 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:52:57 -!- immibissClone has joined.
04:53:05 -!- immibissClone has changed nick to immibis.
04:53:07 -!- immibis_ has quit (Nick collision from services.).
04:54:01 <pikhq> oerjan: I've got an idea for Agora. Pity you're not in it; otherwise, I'd ask you for assistance with it. . .
04:54:45 <pikhq> (define a partnership. That partnership's rules shall be that of a Nomic. Subnomic. :D)
04:55:22 <pikhq> And I notice that you won it once.
04:56:01 <Sgeo> I was interested in FRC once..
04:56:03 <lament> the world is big, the internet is pretty small though
04:56:20 * Sgeo is on the Agora discussion thing for some reason
04:56:22 <lament> just a few hubs of cool stuff in the vast badlands of porn
04:56:31 <lament> (never has the word badlands been more appropriate)
04:56:46 <Sgeo> NEW XKCD SOON!
05:00:39 * pikhq wants someone to join him in the Subnomic Partnership.
05:01:08 <Sgeo> When I have time (never) I'll look at Agora again
05:01:41 <oerjan> you are aware that FRC started as a Subnomic of Nomic World, and Agora rose from its ashes?
05:02:01 <pikhq> oerjan: Then let's be nostalgic.
05:03:12 * pikhq should probably hold off on that, anyways. . .
05:03:28 <pikhq> Agora is currently swamped with 10,000 CFJs. . .
05:04:03 <pikhq> (I call for judgement on the following statement 10,000 times: This is Sparta.)
05:05:30 * pikhq kinda hopes that his proposal on removing all changes in game state caused by that is passed. . .
05:18:43 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.).
05:18:50 -!- immibis has joined.
05:19:51 -!- immibis_ has joined.
05:26:34 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
05:27:18 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
05:27:30 -!- jix has joined.
07:39:18 -!- clog has joined.
07:39:18 -!- clog has joined.
07:39:36 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Excess Flood).
07:40:15 -!- oerjan has quit ("Something").
07:44:51 -!- i4nic8 has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]").
07:47:36 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:09:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
08:21:20 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:21:23 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:35:46 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined.
08:42:25 -!- i4nic8 has joined.
08:43:41 -!- i4nic8 has quit (Client Quit).
09:50:29 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gnight").
10:55:57 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
11:02:16 -!- RedDak has joined.
11:07:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:13:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:18:57 -!- Keymaker has joined.
13:19:27 <Keymaker> any chance chris pressey is here?
13:20:58 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
14:13:45 -!- Tritonio has joined.
14:49:22 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:08:21 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:19:57 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:49:25 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:27:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
17:27:43 -!- jix has joined.
17:35:03 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
17:39:13 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:43:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:50:26 <oklopol> i said "o", you said "u", there's a great difference.
19:51:51 <oerjan> ah but first you said i
19:51:59 <oerjan> a very egoistic thing to say
19:52:47 <oerjan> is that how EgoBot was named?
19:53:10 <ehird`> that's how all Ego* projects are named
19:53:17 <ehird`> ... did you not pick up on that?
19:54:25 <ehird`> that's how all of Ego* projects were named
20:07:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:07:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:07:45 -!- puzzlet has joined.
20:08:00 <oklopol> oerjan: you are right, i may have been a bit selfish there by accident
20:08:45 <oklopol> hmm, where's all the time slippin', it's like 20 min since i last spoke and i haven't really done anything...
20:09:06 <ehird`> ahtiuhariuthkjghlkdfhgkjdafghkadhg stupid windows and stupid router and stupid firewall
20:09:33 <oklopol> ahtiuhari is very finnishish
20:09:38 <ehird`> sdfsdfsdffhkfjhafkhsldf
20:09:51 <ehird`> Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 84.65.88.163:8080.
20:09:54 <oerjan> oklopol: my sentiment exactly
20:10:03 <oklopol> ahti is like the god of sea or something, uhari could be a slang way to say uhkalaukaus or something
20:10:10 <oklopol> not that uhkalaukaus would mean anything
20:10:11 <oerjan> rtrklrktkrlktrsklrtrlt is very czech
20:10:53 <ehird`> ok, list of what i've done
20:11:02 <ehird`> disabled router firewall + personal firewall
20:11:13 <ehird`> it STILL won't load the page
20:14:21 <ehird`> why is this not working???
20:16:04 <oerjan> you want to visit _that_ page?
20:16:55 <oerjan> what did the poor squirrels do to you?
20:17:14 <ehird`> my local webserver's page.
20:17:32 <ehird`> i can access it from 127.0.0.1
20:17:36 <ehird`> just not from the outside world
20:17:41 <ehird`> it never even hits my personal firewall
20:19:44 -!- bartw has joined.
20:21:47 <ehird`> ... i had it bound to localhost
20:23:22 <ehird`> Of course predictably it still doesn't work :|
20:23:56 <bartw> right, on with the compiler building
20:24:45 <ehird`> Shieldsup says the port is stealth :|
20:27:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:27:49 <ehird`> i forgot to change the port in my firewall
20:32:17 <bartw> if a.x is a valid expression returning a function pointer
20:32:29 <bartw> does that mean the overloading isn't possible
20:34:19 <GregorR> DISCLAIMER: Gregor doesn't have a clue WTF you're talkinga bout :)
20:38:22 <oklopol> i'm assuming bartw asked whether it's possible to define a language where a.x can have multiple definitions
20:38:35 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it's possible
20:39:23 <bartw> several languages have the concept of method overloading, disambiguated by parameter count and type
20:39:50 <bartw> but if you start to juggle with functionpointers, hwo do you disabiguate
20:39:50 <bartw> but this isn't the channel for this it seems
20:40:35 <GregorR> Depends on how you define your overloading.
20:40:47 <GregorR> Is overloading name -> many functions or function -> many effects
20:41:10 <bartw> in this case, 1 name, several functions
20:41:14 <oklopol> bartw: depends on call semantics... it's trivial to convert overloading into pattern amtching.
20:42:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:42:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:05:14 -!- cpressey has joined.
21:05:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:05:33 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:31:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper").
21:33:39 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:42:10 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
21:53:52 -!- cpressey has joined.
22:22:12 -!- cpressey has left (?).
23:10:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
23:11:41 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
23:25:08 <bsmntbombdood> prize for making the shortest equivelant to +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<<<<-]
23:26:03 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: WE ARE NOT DOING YOUR HOMEWORK!
23:26:17 <bsmntbombdood> that is, put [16*1, 16*2, 16*3, 16*4, 16*5, 16*6, 16*7, 16*8] in the tape
23:26:43 <oklopol> if it were, i'd be totally jealous
23:26:55 <ehird`> [Put16TimesNForNinARangeFrom1to8OnTape Interpreter]
23:29:22 <ehird`> when in doubt, invent a language that can do it
23:29:40 <bsmntbombdood> hmm i wonder if it would be shorter to put [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8] on the tape and map *16 across it
23:30:06 <ehird`> maybe try not having 16 +s
23:31:19 <ehird`> BF constants page, high-ho
23:38:42 <bsmntbombdood> i basically want the shortest code to load a number and all/some of its factors
23:43:27 <ehird`> wapr has been out for ages now and nobody's written anything in it ;P
23:44:50 <ehird`> (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wapr, the stuff there is stack comments, not argument syntax)
23:44:56 <ehird`> it is most likely turing complete
23:44:58 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("getting off, i will pack this up soon").
23:45:25 <ihope_> What about the 100-character BF program that outputs the most?
23:45:38 <ihope_> Tape infinite both ways, cells hold integers.
23:46:25 <ehird`> isnt' that the busy beaver problem
23:47:21 <ehird`> it's good to know i recognize is
23:49:04 <ihope_> My entry: +++[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[..-]
23:49:44 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: (10:55:55 PM) ihope_: What about the 100-character BF program that outputs the most?
23:49:44 <ehird`> (10:56:08 PM) ihope_: Tape infinite both ways, cells hold integers.
23:50:09 <ehird`> that was ihope_'s entry to the above
23:51:01 <ehird`> infinite output, i win
23:51:29 <ehird`> that's impossible then
23:51:35 <ehird`> basically the max you can get is +[.+]
23:52:10 <ehird`> show me YOUR 5 char entry
23:57:57 <bsmntbombdood> let's find the lowest number where the number of prints is greater than the length
23:58:19 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: that might be hard
23:58:22 <ehird`> ihope_ might do it though
23:58:30 <ehird`> considering he started this mess ;)
00:03:20 <bsmntbombdood> someone come up with a run length encoding of brainfuck
00:03:48 <ehird`> isn't that er, impossible
00:04:12 <ehird`> what would be cool is just a BF->BF compiler
00:04:19 <ehird`> i.e. implementing it like you would a BF->C compiler
00:04:36 <ehird`> you could call it pfsdbfs (Program For Slowing Down Brainfuck Sources)
00:06:02 <bsmntbombdood> you can just do ${code to load program onto tape}${bf-in-bf interpreter}
00:06:15 <ehird`> no, that's not what i mean
00:06:26 <ehird`> that's like writing a bf->c program that does "bf("...")"
00:06:30 <ehird`> and an implementation of bf
00:06:46 <ehird`> which isn't what i mean
00:07:04 <ehird`> no it isn't, stop pretending you know what my mind is thinking
00:08:11 <bsmntbombdood> you can't compile x->x without some restrictions on the target language
00:08:35 <ehird`> BF->BF, without a 1-1 translation or simple variant thereof, and without embedding an interpreter
00:09:04 <ehird`> like, use GregorR's tape/stack thingy (i.e. E1E1E1 where E is an element) for the tape
00:09:15 <ehird`> it's very simple what i'm explaining
00:09:33 <ehird`> so you're just arguing for the sake
00:11:22 <ehird`> in an incredibly convoluted fashion
00:11:39 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:12:48 <ehird`> i kind of meant something simple
00:12:53 <ehird`> take the BF->C paradigm
00:12:57 <ehird`> and apply it but replacing C with BF
00:13:53 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: it is NOT 1 to 1
00:13:57 <ehird`> because you allocate an array on the stack
00:14:12 <ehird`> the idea is to do that, in BF
00:14:21 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Not as bad as getting shot, not as good as fine champagne.
00:15:29 <ehird`> that's not really the same but ok :P
00:15:36 <ehird`> GregorR: how does bf2c handle libs?
00:15:55 <ehird`> what does it do with, e.g. malloc?
00:16:02 <ehird`> ... what about if you tried to use sockets? you know.
00:16:29 <ehird`> so can you not malloc? how does printf work?
00:17:07 <ehird`> is there a write_char? :)
00:17:23 <GregorR> It's something like: asm("."); :P
00:17:25 -!- cpressey has joined.
00:17:28 <ehird`> is there a way to do tape manipulation?
00:17:32 <ehird`> if so i could implement malloc i guess
00:17:46 <ehird`> it'd be a lot easier if you could access the tape as an infinite pointer
00:17:54 <ehird`> the space of tape not being used by c2bf
00:18:08 <ehird`> because, a basic allocator is really simple of course
00:18:43 <GregorR> It divides the tape using that whatsisname's hotel rooms problem.
00:18:50 <GregorR> (Infinite hotel rooms, all full, add more people)
00:19:11 <ehird`> malloc without free: int top = 0; void *malloc(int size) { void *res = no_mans_land[top]; top += size; return res; }
00:19:17 <ehird`> with free requires a bit more, but meh
00:19:30 <ehird`> assuming no_mans_land is c2bf's no-mans-land (i.e. tape not used for c2bf stuff)
00:19:49 * oerjan wonders if there are any bf-hosted languages on at least PEBBLE's level, or if it will be the first when ehird` is finished...
00:20:04 <ehird`> oerjan: bf hosted = compiler in BF?
00:20:11 <ehird`> pebble.bfm will probably be the first
00:20:40 <oerjan> i.e. you need essentially nothing more than a bf interpreter to use it
00:21:49 <oerjan> i guess i mean, the compiler is self-hosting + compiles to bf
00:22:32 <ehird`> GregorR: is there a no_mans_land? :)
00:23:17 <ehird`> How could I get one? :P
00:23:25 <ehird`> how can I get some unused space in c2bf?
00:23:31 <ehird`> that isn't reserved for stack etc
00:23:39 <GregorR> Once a libc is implemented, you'd just up the sbrk.
00:23:54 <GregorR> Right now, you don't, C2BF is far from far from far from complete :P
00:24:20 <ehird`> So right now any memory allocation is impossible in c2bf
00:24:38 <GregorR> Wrong, but you'd have to roll-your-own sbrk.
00:24:47 <GregorR> Right now, the heap is your no-mans-land :P
00:24:53 <GregorR> It's just reserved for the heap in the future.
00:25:04 <ehird`> So, nothing uses the heap right now. correct?
00:25:24 <ehird`> Can I programmatically access it?
00:26:17 <oerjan> i.e. can you write c2bf malloc in the C part?
00:26:26 <ehird`> but can you, GregorR? :)
00:26:42 <GregorR> You don't want to hear this, it's so hacky X-D
00:26:57 <ehird`> I just want to know how to get at the heap, with c2bf
00:27:05 <GregorR> Traditional (correct) C: Heap is in one place, stack is in another.
00:27:17 <GregorR> C2BF: Heap and stack are in the same place, all pointer math is modulo-2.
00:27:31 <GregorR> SO, the heap is 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc.
00:27:33 <ehird`> Ok, while I'm having a seizure, tell me how to programmatically mess with the heap :P
00:27:41 <ehird`> So just cast 'em to a pointer?
00:27:57 <ehird`> So (void *)5 = third heap entry?
00:27:59 <GregorR> Yeah - but no guarantees it'll actually work, I don't really remember how complete C2BF is :P
00:28:58 <ehird`> void *top = (void *)0; void *malloc(int amount) { void *ptr = top; top += amount*2; return ptr; }
00:29:01 <GregorR> And why are you so interested in this?
00:29:21 <ehird`> GregorR: Run bf2c translator on brainfuck code, use c2bf to get significantly larger, slower program
00:29:27 <GregorR> Remember what I said? All pointer math is modulo-2.
00:29:51 <ehird`> Ok, that makes things harder
00:29:53 <GregorR> It's like how: int *a = &foo; a += 1; // a is increased by (e.g.) 4
00:30:00 <GregorR> No, it makes things easier.
00:30:07 <ehird`> I just need top += amount then
00:30:20 <oerjan> i don't think modulo-2 is the right word
00:30:22 <ehird`> void *top = (void *)0; void *malloc(int amount) { void *ptr = top; top += amount; return ptr; }
00:30:27 <ehird`> oerjan: yeah, i got confused by that
00:30:37 <ehird`> GregorR: does c2bf work in cygwin?
00:30:53 <GregorR> modulo-2 would mean there are two cells of memory :P
00:31:15 <ehird`> svn.sourceforge.net is down
00:31:17 <ehird`> Who wants to give me c2bf
00:31:35 <GregorR> I don't think I even have a copy on my home computer :P
00:32:08 <oerjan> it's not in the file archive?
00:32:18 <GregorR> No, there are no releases.
00:33:08 <GregorR> And, it could use a rewrite - the method by which I did this nasty stack/heap trick needs to be replaced :)
00:33:37 <GregorR> I JUST WANT TO TAR AND FEATHER YOU
00:35:24 <cpressey> GregorR: if stack and heap are in the same place, why not just allocate (chunks of) the stack, on the heap?
00:35:37 <cpressey> makes push and pop a bit more involved i suppose
00:36:01 <GregorR> Because then you would have either a fixed stack size, or have to maintain multiple stacks >_>
00:36:11 * cpressey gives ehird` Jeffry's BASIC-to-Brainfuck compiler instead
00:36:33 <cpressey> GregorR: I was thinking, store it in chunks, with the chunks linked together... when you run out of stack space in one chunk, allocate another
00:39:12 <GregorR> cpressey: Hence multiple stacks.
00:39:38 <cpressey> GregorR: ok -- i thought you meant multiple seperate stacks
00:39:54 <cpressey> instead of what i would call just one stack, broken up :)
00:39:59 <GregorR> Oh, no, just multiple "physical" stacks for one "virtual" stack :)
00:41:09 <GregorR> Wow, that's ... a number with no real significance :P
00:41:19 <GregorR> ehird`: I do believe you'll find that nobody has it :)
00:41:29 <cpressey> bsmntbombdood: i did a web search for c2bf and got hex values :)
00:41:33 <GregorR> ehird`: Because it's old and crap? :P
00:41:58 <GregorR> Sure, but until this day nobody has mentioned it for months and months and months :P
00:42:05 <GregorR> Therefore I'm not particularly inclined to finish it.
00:42:42 <ehird`> i've always found c2bf interesting
00:43:06 <ehird`> that will NEVER happen
00:43:14 <ehird`> if that ever happens, i will pay you £100
00:43:18 <GregorR> Probably easier to do hs2c and c2buf :)
00:43:27 <ehird`> Uh, I was just joking <.<
00:53:32 <oerjan> doing a garbage collected language with lots of pointer indirection in bf will _not_ be pretty.
00:54:04 <ehird`> oerjan: like said above there's a hs2c
01:00:27 <lament> oerjan: you don't _have_ to implement garbage collection
01:02:10 <oerjan> running haskell without garbage collection will _not_ be pretty, either.
01:02:43 <lament> who cares, it's in brainfuck anyway
01:04:28 <GregorR> "The simplest garbage collector is no garbage collector" :P
01:08:02 * cpressey is trying to implement a garbage collector in 6502 asm on the C64
01:09:23 <ehird`> one thing i have always wanted to do is build a system from scratch
01:09:32 <ehird`> homebrew a CPU and put some ram there
01:09:39 <ehird`> get an instruction set working
01:09:46 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out).
01:09:46 <ehird`> implement some form of an OS
01:09:52 <ehird`> add a programming language
01:09:56 <GregorR> One thing I've always wanted to do but don't have the skills or resources is to make a pneumatic CPU :)
01:10:02 <ehird`> put a simple video card in, attach it to a monitor
01:10:09 <ehird`> make keyboard+mouse work
01:10:18 <ehird`> invent new gui paradigm, code to work on OS with video card in programming language
01:10:27 <ehird`> voila, system from nil
01:10:45 <GregorR> You forgot about forging the atoms from the ether.
01:10:58 <ehird`> i'll start at the cpu level i think
01:10:59 <ehird`> but, that would be fun
01:11:03 -!- i4nic8 has joined.
01:11:21 <cpressey> i wanted to build a brainfuck CPU out of TTL chips once
01:11:29 <ehird`> I mean, you might even get interesting results
01:11:37 <cpressey> i also wanted to build an OISC CPU out of discrete transistors
01:11:46 <ehird`> A fun experiment would be to connect it to the net and use it and only it for e.g. a month
01:11:57 <ehird`> try and have no preconceptions about what software should be like
01:12:07 <ehird`> i.e. don't mimic anything, just let it work how you think it should intuitively
01:12:23 -!- ihope has joined.
01:12:37 <ehird`> also, using a computer with a whole stack - cpu, isa, proglang&os, gui, software - that you made yourself, would be pretty 1337 :P
01:13:15 <ihope> There's a limit to how much one can make oneself.
01:13:34 <ihope> Integrated circuits.
01:14:01 <ehird`> I dunno, whatever most homebrew CPUs are
01:14:22 <ehird`> if you could safely say every part of it was made by you (transisitors, etc withstanding) then i guess it'd be ok :P
01:14:24 <GregorR> Again, pneumatic CPU = whoot ^^
01:14:56 <GregorR> I just think watching a pneumatic CPU extremely-slowly calculate 1+1 would be awesome.
01:15:26 <ihope> Extremely slowly? Just blow into it and the result blows out the other end.
01:15:38 <ehird`> One thing I imagine would emerge from a system like I describe
01:15:40 <GregorR> I mean a real CPU - programmable.
01:15:54 <ehird`> mice actually tend to come out /faster/ than keyboards, in practice, when the interface is good
01:15:59 <ehird`> contrary to actually most research
01:16:10 <ihope> You know, I think I'm comfortable just making the software myself.
01:16:19 <GregorR> ehird`: Touchscreen > both
01:16:31 <ehird`> GregorR: OK let's assume this custom computer has a budget
01:16:45 <ehird`> Let's assume that everything should be as low powered as possible while still producing a useful machine
01:16:49 <GregorR> I would just try to build LCARS :P
01:17:00 <ehird`> (of course every part of current computers are bloated so you can't really use their specs to compare:P)
01:17:14 <GregorR> The more I use a tablet PC, the more I realize that LCARS is the best UI imaginable.
01:17:46 * cpressey wants to know whatever happened to light pens
01:17:56 <ehird`> I might try that from-scratch computer
01:17:56 <ihope> Is that a type of brain interface?
01:17:59 <ehird`> PROBLEM: I suck at everything
01:18:01 <GregorR> ihope: LCARS is the computer system on Star Trek (>NG)
01:18:18 <ehird`> I could never make a cpu, I would probably stumble designing an ISA, I would have much trouble programming it - especially a full OS
01:19:15 <ihope> Don't make a CPU; use a really cheap one.
01:19:27 <ehird`> That's not from scratch
01:19:39 <ehird`> I mean, using an external CPU you get locked into an ISA etc
01:19:48 <ehird`> That forces you into a certain other-persons model of thinking
01:19:52 <ehird`> That's against the spirit of the idea
01:20:05 <ihope> Make it be cellular automata, then!
01:21:00 <ihope> Quit ridiculing my greatest idea! :-P
01:24:39 <i4nic8> oh snap someone wrote a quine for my esolang rofl
01:25:00 <ihope> Which esolang is that?
01:25:04 <i4nic8> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/programs/phawn/kquine.phn
01:25:35 <ehird`> somebody likes your language apparently
01:25:47 <i4nic8> http://esolangs.org/wiki/PHAWN
01:26:13 <i4nic8> is he a regular on the wiki?
01:26:29 <i4nic8> or, enjoys writing quines?
01:26:30 <ehird`> he just writes an awful lot of quines etc
01:27:32 <i4nic8> he helped me fix the interpreter too
01:32:26 <ehird`> Who thinks I should try that from-scratch idea? ;)
01:34:52 <ehird`> you weren't in here for it
01:35:49 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined.
01:40:02 <ehird`> anyone have comments? ;)
01:42:03 <cpressey> ehird`: "cheap" and "simple" and "low-power" and "non-preconceived idea of an isa" are conflicting requirements
01:42:15 <cpressey> although i guess you didn't say "simple"
01:42:55 <cpressey> if cheap, i'd go with a Z80 cpu and maybe wire it up after i've had a few, to make it interesting
01:43:50 <cpressey> if non-preconceived... use a FPGA or discrete ICs... depending on how much soldering you want to do
01:43:52 <ehird`> see you all tomorrow :)
01:44:20 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
01:45:39 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:46:33 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit.
01:47:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.).
01:47:13 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
01:48:12 -!- i4nic8 has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]").
02:04:39 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:57:21 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:24:36 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:55:26 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:42:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:28:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
08:38:30 <ttm> Here's a simple program that outputs 2^(2^65536) bytes. Add another '+' to the start and it will output 2^(2^(2^65536)) bytes, and so on.
08:38:44 <ttm> +++++++[>>+<[>[>+<-]>[<++>-]<<-]>[<+>-]<<-]>[.-]
08:41:07 <ttm> (Naturally, this assumes integer cells as in ihope's challenge. And it's way too tidy to be the best answer for this length.)
09:42:53 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
09:58:11 -!- bartw has quit.
10:04:30 -!- bartw has joined.
10:45:34 <ttm> Hey bsmnt. >>>>>>>>>++++++++[<[++<]++[>]<-]<[<]>[[<++++++++>-]>]
10:48:13 <ttm> bsmntbombdood and depending on what context you need it in, you may be able to lose the >>>>>>>>> and/or the <[<] part.
11:10:51 -!- bartw has left (?).
11:42:56 -!- jix has joined.
12:03:12 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:13:19 -!- RedDak has joined.
12:23:06 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined.
13:07:48 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:36:21 -!- ihope_ has joined.
13:36:36 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
13:38:12 -!- ihope has quit (Client Quit).
14:05:40 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:20:37 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:20:58 <ehird`> oklopol: anything changed with it?
14:31:41 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:42:52 -!- ihope has joined.
15:01:54 <oklopol> i added that, but it's on the other ololobot
15:02:03 <oklopol> i mean, added multiple lines
15:02:21 <oklopol> on my other comp, the real ololobot
15:02:33 <oklopol> this one is just an old version i opened since you asked
15:57:05 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:29:04 -!- Tritonio has joined.
16:49:58 <ehird`> I'm implementing a GC in Python, am I crazy?
16:50:09 <ehird`> (it's for something similar to oklopol's lisp, but more complete :))
16:51:44 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal").
17:15:26 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
17:24:10 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:26:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:27:46 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
17:27:54 -!- jix has joined.
17:32:16 <ehird`> oklopol: hey, how do i set values in scope with olololisp
17:33:31 <ehird`> (set a 1) would set a in the very topmost scope
17:33:35 <oklopol> >>> sch ((lambda () (define a 1)))
17:33:50 <oklopol> >>> sch ((lambda () (define a 4)))
17:34:19 <oklopol> isn't it always like that?
17:34:35 <ehird`> >>> sch (define test (lambda () (define test2 (lambda () x)) (define x 2) (test2)))
17:34:51 <ehird`> i'm... pretty sure that's not right
17:34:55 <ehird`> it should give a variable definition error
17:34:58 <ehird`> since in the scope x is not defined
17:38:03 -!- ttm has quit ("Seeeeeya").
17:38:10 -!- ttm has joined.
17:38:33 <ehird`> i just implemented my lisp
17:38:40 <ehird`> well, all of the types
17:38:44 <ehird`> now i need to do some minimal eval stuff
17:41:19 <ehird`> technically, i still need to do the gc
17:41:24 <ehird`> but i'm leaving that for later
17:41:40 <ehird`> (i've stopped python collecting itself by pushing every object to an array called "heap" :D)
17:42:51 <ehird`> 1. some simple scoping functions
17:43:05 <ehird`> 3. the actual functions - right now you can't actually do anything, but all the code is there
17:43:15 <oklopol> scoping was the only part that took time in my implementation
17:43:25 <ehird`> i've actually done the lexical scoping for functions
17:43:56 <ehird`> my LFunc class is ridiculously simple
17:43:57 <ehird`> http://rafb.net/p/LJGsOA14.html
17:45:18 <ehird`> I forgot to make LString
17:45:52 -!- ttm has changed nick to dbc.
17:48:41 <ehird`> OK! All done apart from parsing and stdlib (stdlib includes e.g. lambda ;))
17:50:37 <ehird`> you don't support (x . y) syntax?
18:05:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
18:07:23 <ehird`> now i'm doing the parser
18:09:59 <ehird`> >>> sch "lollerburger"
18:10:06 <ehird`> no string parsing oklopol?
18:14:04 <ehird`> numbda isn't lisp though, no?
18:14:08 <ehird`> >>> numbda (lambda (x) x)
18:14:09 <ololobot> error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens
18:14:30 <ololobot> lazy:[apply opr:-> to id:A(0) and id:A(0)]
18:15:26 <oklopol> although some of it is legal oklotalk.
18:15:35 <oklopol> since oklotalk is pretty flexible
18:16:02 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:19:07 <oklopol> 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. <<< what's "being on the face of the deep"?
18:19:40 <oklopol> there is something deep, and over it there's darkness?
18:20:05 <ehird`> the bible isn't meant to make sense
18:22:35 <ehird`> ((lambda (x) x) 2) is not parsing
18:24:09 <ehird`> hehe, my parser recurses like hell
18:26:39 <ehird`> return LCons(parse(string), parse_list(string))
18:26:49 <ehird`> parse* modify string, so that is actually right
18:36:14 <ehird`> ( . (<error unmatched )> . NIL))
18:43:15 <ehird`> i should probably handle -
18:46:54 <ehird`> oklopol: :D it's almost done!
18:47:00 <ehird`> then i can write some functions...
18:48:57 <ehird`> special forms are just functions with evalargs=false
18:51:08 <ehird`> error, not callable: error, not callable: error, unbound symbol: lambda
18:52:48 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:56:33 <ehird`> oklopol: parser, evaller, works :)
18:59:21 <oklopol> i actually realized you weren't nearly as fast as i thought
18:59:50 <oklopol> i think i'll translate genesis to my language today
19:00:12 <ehird`> my interp is currently 324 lines
19:03:19 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
19:08:58 <ehird`> my code for defining a function written in Python looks like some kind of c calling interface
19:08:59 <ehird`> scope[0][SymbolF("lambda")] = LFunc(p_lambda, (-1, ""), False)
19:14:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:18:47 <ehird`> oklopol: http://rafb.net/p/ijMepf32.html
19:19:35 <ehird`> all it has right now is lambda :P
19:19:42 * ehird` hooks up quick irc bot
19:19:47 <ehird`> what's the IRC message syntax again?
19:19:59 <oklopol> PRIVMSG #channel :sadoijfoidjhitr eotihjerg iajergoi
19:20:09 <ehird`> You have stuff in front of it too
19:20:17 <ehird`> :asdfsdf PRIVMSG #channel :adbsad
19:20:21 <oklopol> well yeah, when you receive
19:20:31 <oklopol> it's <maskity maskity> PRIVMSG #channel :asdfiugh aeuhg
19:20:38 <oklopol> <maskity maskity> is teh hostmasker
19:25:36 <ehird`> almost done with the bot oklopol
19:29:15 <ehird`> oklopol: is there a way to read one line from a socket? :|
19:33:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
19:37:08 -!- lithp has joined.
19:37:19 -!- lithp has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:37:25 -!- ehird` has changed nick to lithpbot.
19:38:14 -!- lithp has joined.
19:38:15 <lithpbot> oklopol: > code means "eval code"
19:38:36 -!- lithp has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:39:07 -!- lithp has joined.
19:39:07 -!- lithpbot has changed nick to ehird`.
19:39:08 -!- lithp has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:39:32 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:40:30 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:40:41 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:41:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:41:30 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:41:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:42:04 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:42:39 -!- ehird` has changed nick to lithpbo1.
19:42:43 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:42:44 -!- lithpbo1 has changed nick to lithpbot.
19:43:22 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:43:33 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
19:43:53 -!- lithpbot has changed nick to ehird`.
19:44:26 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:44:48 <ehird`> oklopol: It's done! :D #esoteric-blah
19:44:57 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:46:46 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:46:59 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:47:10 -!- lithpbot has joined.
19:47:55 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:04:33 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:04:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:05:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:05:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:06:03 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:06:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:07:12 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:07:35 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:08:00 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
20:08:32 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:08:43 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:08:46 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:09:25 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:09:30 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:10:03 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:10:54 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:11:05 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:11:29 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:11:52 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:13:43 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:14:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:14:44 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:15:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:16:42 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:16:45 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:17:49 <oerjan> darn i was just going to test (LITHT (PLUTH 2 2) (TIMETH 3 3))
20:18:49 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:18:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:19:39 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:19:49 <oerjan> (LITHT (PLUTH 2 2) (TIMETH 3 3))
20:20:06 <ehird`> > (LITHT (PLUTH 2 2) (TIMETH 3 3))
20:21:23 <oerjan> > (CONTH 1 (CONTH 1 NIL))
20:22:12 <ehird`> oerjan: i don't even hvae cons! ;)
20:22:31 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:22:37 <oerjan> em, does it have any functions at all?
20:23:09 <ehird`> yeah, it does have functions
20:23:11 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:23:50 <ehird`> #esoteric-blah if you want to test it, to avoid spamming here
20:24:18 <oerjan> something tells me this is not quite LITHP
20:24:36 <ehird`> lithpbot is just a name :P
20:24:50 <oklopol> >>> sch (define s (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))))
20:25:05 <ehird`> oklopol: my lexical scoping is borked
20:25:06 <oklopol> >>> sch (define k (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a)))
20:25:07 <oerjan> waa, giving us false hopes :(
20:25:26 <ehird`> oklopol: MY LEXICAL SCOPING IS BROKEN
20:26:06 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:26:15 <ehird`> i'll find out what's wrong with set
20:26:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:26:20 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:26:48 * oklopol dances a little dance for having made a workind lexical scoping faster
20:27:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
20:27:12 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:27:12 <ehird`> lexical scoping is hard when your implementation sucks
20:27:15 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:27:27 <oklopol> iqkdo gcsieegubue goupeievife devezzda gesemoevevi goceliekuemua liekue gos^yeliehmerylieede gozoleydiedeyni viekue miekue deisoekue
20:28:42 <oerjan> that a real language? o_O
20:28:50 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:29:53 <oklopol> vocabulary may change completely, but i think semantics are ready.
20:31:29 <oerjan> given those long words...
20:32:17 <oklopol> hmm, what's polysynthetic? :)
20:33:00 <oerjan> when one word combines what is several words, or even a whole sentence in other languages
20:34:25 <oerjan> Greenlandic is one example
20:35:38 <oklopol> well, basically you can just squeeze sentences into single words, since parsing is unambiguous... at least i think (..hope) it now is
20:36:08 <oklopol> >>> (define test lambda (a) b)
20:36:09 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysynthetic_language
20:36:18 <oklopol> >>> sch (define test lambda (a) b)
20:36:43 <oklopol> >>> sch (define test (lambda (a) b))
20:37:00 <oklopol> okay... i also have dynamic scoping xD
20:37:53 <oklopol> i realized that as i was looking at my implementation, kinda lolled
20:38:40 <ehird`> so who actually knows how to implement lexical scoping? :p
20:39:30 <oklopol> that's trivially made lexical if you just check every variable is actually bound when you make a lambda
20:39:45 <oklopol> but i'm not gonna add that, since i kinda like it now :))
20:39:59 <ehird`> mine isn't trivially made lexical
20:40:12 <oklopol> (ehird`) so who actually knows how to implement lexical scoping? :p <<< i was referring to this.
20:40:27 -!- sebbu has joined.
20:42:46 <ehird`> it's a cons structure...
20:43:08 <oklopol> i kinda guessed that. now does it work?
20:43:08 <ehird`> a list is (e1 . (e2 . (e3 . ())))
20:43:32 <ehird`> what is confusing about it
20:43:33 <oklopol> hehe, actually, how could it not work ;)
20:44:19 <oklopol> lookup has a fun implementation
20:44:33 <oklopol> you have the same stack structure i have
20:44:52 <ehird`> the stack itself is fine
20:44:56 <ehird`> it'd the binding that's up
20:45:04 <ehird`> presumably LFunc is where I go wrong
20:45:09 <ehird`> specifically self.closure = scope[:]
20:46:33 <oklopol> you don't need to save *everything* in the closure
20:46:55 <ehird`> yeah but that shouldn't be the problem
20:47:09 <ehird`> old_scope = scope[:] # poof
20:47:09 <ehird`> scope = self.closure # zoop
20:47:39 <oklopol> you should just push the closure on the scope, methinks.
20:48:02 <ehird`> scope.extend(self.closure)
20:48:19 <ehird`> then pop off the scope len(self.closure) times?
20:48:49 <ehird`> x.extend(y) is x = x + y, for lists
20:49:05 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:49:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
20:49:44 <oklopol> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
20:50:23 <ehird`> (set a 2) (def get-a () a) (set a 5) (get-a) should return 2 right
20:50:26 <oklopol> well broken in that it's not lexical
20:50:57 <ehird`> what is the best way to get the closure?
20:51:01 <ehird`> loop through, check for symbols?
20:51:13 <oklopol> it should be correct already.
20:51:17 <oklopol> and no, it's not slow or ugly.
20:51:30 <oklopol> of course you have to check what variables a lambda encloses...
20:51:44 <oklopol> if you don't, you *have* to save every variable in the closure.
20:51:57 <ehird`> i think my implementation is kinda broken
20:52:01 <oklopol> you can just do that while parsing.
20:52:30 <oklopol> hmm... well we know it *is* broken in that the closures don't work, but i can't really say what's broken.
20:52:42 <ehird`> i thought about it the wrong way
20:53:32 <oklopol> rewriting a program is often more fruitful than debugging it.
20:54:11 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:55:56 <ehird`> oklopol: ping #esoteric-blah
20:59:29 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:59:42 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
21:13:34 <bsmntbombdood> i think the word for the time complexity of this algorithm is "fuck-assly slow"
21:33:33 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:35:30 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:36:45 <oklopol> >>> sch (define c (lambda (b) a))
21:37:04 <pikhq> ehird`: Any progress?
21:58:03 <oerjan> oklopol: in scheme, define usually doesn't create a new variable if there is already one in the exact same scope
21:58:34 <oerjan> in other words, (c 6) should have returned 4
21:59:19 <oerjan> (ML does it the other way around, btw)
22:01:32 <oerjan> if there is already an a defined at the same level, (define a 4) in scheme acts as (set! a 4)
22:01:53 <oerjan> and any old references to a will get the update
22:02:17 <oklopol> i don't really know the imperative side of scheme
22:02:33 <oklopol> i don't really know scheme.
22:03:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus").
22:05:03 * ehird` catches oerjan's quit message
22:15:13 -!- fizzie has joined.
22:39:22 <oklopol> if it's okay, i'll lol a bit if EgoBot beats it :)
22:40:41 <EgoBot> 119 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>-.------------.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+. [995]
22:41:27 <oklopol> haven't you ever seen EgoBot's output? :|
22:42:09 <oklopol> it's genetic, it may not find the same thing every time
22:42:26 <oklopol> but, it usually finds the same thing
22:42:39 <EgoBot> 117 +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>++++++.>++.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [906]
22:43:48 <EgoBot> 122 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++.>+++.>----..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+. [400]
22:43:52 <oklopol> "mommy, what's 6*8?" "oh, sweetie, those are two completely different numbers!"
22:44:09 <bsmntbombdood> i was hoping it stored the previous one and improved on it
22:44:24 <oklopol> well, that's a separate program
22:58:44 <EgoBot> 121 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++><<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [192]
23:04:21 <jix> i once did a bf textgen that produced short output most of the time.... but back then i was trying out lisp .... so i can't read or run that code anymore ^^
23:04:46 <jix> and it was awfully slow
23:06:02 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: still going? :D
23:06:31 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: why are you still running it? rewrite it already
23:06:55 <oklopol> ehird`: don't ruin the fun!
23:07:27 <jix> i should write one in c++...
23:07:37 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: make it print debug output, see what's happening
23:07:44 <ehird`> jix: you shouldn't write ANYTHING in c++
23:07:54 <jix> ehird`: tell me a better language
23:08:01 <ehird`> jix: C or something higher level
23:08:08 <ehird`> if you're going for speed, probably C
23:08:24 <jix> c is a pain in the ass
23:08:25 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: because you'll get even incomplete results asap
23:08:32 <ehird`> jix: because you try to use it like c++
23:08:33 <jix> dynamic arrays in c...
23:08:42 <jix> are annoying as hell
23:08:47 <jix> i programmed c for years before learning c++
23:08:56 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: so you'll be able to see if it works well, how it's doing etc
23:08:59 <jix> so don't tell me i try to use c like c++
23:10:46 <jix> i'm not going to use c for anything besides linux kernel modules and maybe 4k intros anymore
23:10:47 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: keep running it
23:10:52 <ehird`> just set its priority lower
23:12:15 <jix> bsmntbombdood: with renice
23:12:42 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood is clinically retarded, news at 11
23:13:22 <jix> but i don't want a language war right now...
23:17:27 <bsmntbombdood> ok, now it's going to print the best so far 255 times in its running
23:20:41 <ehird`> maybe you should do more than 255 times
23:20:47 <ehird`> I mean, that's an awful lot considering how long it's taking
23:25:26 <bsmntbombdood> those are the only places where there is a complete product
23:28:53 <bsmntbombdood> and the only place to print that wouldn't print every single step
23:29:07 <ehird`> why not print every single step?
23:36:11 <bsmntbombdood> it would spend more time printing than calculating, and that's too much information to be usefull
23:36:43 <ehird`> alright, make it print every iteration % 1000 == 0
23:37:07 <bsmntbombdood> ...that would require a shitload of bookkeeping to number iterations
23:37:50 <ehird`> oklopol: lithpbot is ready!
23:37:51 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:37:55 <ehird`> with REAL LEXICAL SCOPING(TM)
23:38:00 <ehird`> i just, haven't written any functions yet
23:38:01 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:39:10 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:39:27 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: even worse in "lithp bot"
23:39:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:40:16 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:40:31 <bsmntbombdood> lookie what i made: http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/book1.jpg
23:40:39 <jix> > (add 1 2)
23:40:49 <ehird`> jix: i said i didn't impl any functions yet
23:40:54 <bsmntbombdood> it even has a elastic keep-closed strap and pocket in the back cover (not shown)
23:40:57 <ehird`> the infrastructure is there though
23:46:16 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:46:29 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:47:33 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
23:47:41 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:48:09 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:48:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:49:10 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:49:37 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:50:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:50:45 <ehird`> > (lambda () ((lambda () 2)))
23:50:48 <ehird`> > ((lambda () ((lambda () 2))))
23:51:04 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: lithpbot!
23:51:23 <ehird`> no strings right now either
23:51:23 <oklopol> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
23:51:27 <oklopol> > (def k (a) (lambda (b) a))
23:51:48 <jix> for my lisp textgen i used A* for the 2nd part... i wonder whether there is a better algoritm for that
23:51:52 <jix> better as in faster
23:52:10 <oklopol> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
23:52:20 <ehird`> my parser is borked, somehow
23:53:01 <ehird`> > ((lambda () 2)) (lambda () 2)
23:53:41 <oklopol> > ((((lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 8)
23:54:05 <oklopol> YOUR MOTHER IS AN UNMATCHED (
23:54:43 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:54:54 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:54:57 <oklopol> i thought just def was, but anyways, gotta sleep soon
23:55:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:55:37 <ehird`> oklopol: after i fix this, i'm doing def etc
23:55:40 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:55:44 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:56:04 <oklopol> we don't need no steeenking def
23:56:21 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: 1. it's gone 2. you mean (quote a)
23:56:26 <ehird`> 3. quote isn't implemented yet
23:56:58 <ehird`> how can it not not be?
23:57:19 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: the interp isn't that old
23:57:27 <ehird`> it's about an hour old
23:57:37 <oklopol> interps grow quotes at about 3 hours old
23:58:43 -!- lithpbot has joined.
23:58:51 <ehird`> sdfsdjfhsaidfh4i4thdkjbdkjgbxnckl;v
23:59:22 <ehird`> it has core lisp stuff.
23:59:39 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:59:46 <ehird`> why do you think it keeps restarting!
23:59:52 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:00:08 <ehird`> hm, ok, that isn't being printed on my console
00:00:17 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:00:32 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:01:18 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:01:29 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:02:10 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:02:19 <ehird`> i'll implement some primitives first
00:05:36 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:05:37 <ehird`> now it has lambda, quote, set , def, if
00:06:13 <ehird`> > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no))
00:06:23 <ehird`> > (if () (quote yes) (quote no))
00:07:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:07:45 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:07:46 <ehird`> > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no))
00:07:49 <ehird`> > (if 1 (quote yes) (quote no))
00:08:12 <ehird`> my boolean function returns 1 or 0
00:08:18 <ehird`> but it isn't returning 0 for "0" which is bizzare
00:08:27 <ehird`> ololobot's lisp does it
00:08:41 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:08:54 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:08:58 <ehird`> > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no))
00:09:17 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: if C does it, it must be right.
00:09:46 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:09:54 <bsmntbombdood> and you need a client that does last-spoken tab completion
00:10:11 <ehird`> ifthis doesn't work i don't know what's wrong:
00:10:14 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:10:15 <ehird`> > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no))
00:10:19 <ehird`> > (if 1 (quote yes) (quote no))
00:10:22 <ehird`> > (if () (quote yes) (quote no))
00:10:24 <ehird`> > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no))
00:10:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:10:50 <ehird`> 0 because that's what the to-boolean returns
00:10:59 <ehird`> () because it makes no sense to have nil true
00:12:14 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:12:16 <ehird`> i don't really care if you think that
00:12:20 <ehird`> > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no))
00:12:21 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:12:50 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:12:52 <ehird`> it's failing at a previous point
00:12:57 <ehird`> (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no))
00:13:01 <ehird`> > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no))
00:13:01 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:13:52 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:13:53 <ehird`> > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no))
00:13:56 <ehird`> > (if () (quote yes) (quote no))
00:13:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:15:03 <ehird`> oklopol: it's all there
00:15:06 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:15:06 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: are you sure it works at all :D
00:15:09 <ehird`> > (if () (quote yes) (quote no))
00:15:16 <ehird`> > (if (quote (1)) (quote yes) (quote no))
00:15:24 <oklopol> > ((((lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 8)
00:15:52 <oklopol> (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))
00:15:57 <ehird`> > (def test (x) ((lambda (y) y) x))
00:16:21 <ehird`> def works now, oklopol
00:17:03 <ehird`> (def NAME ARGS CODE...)
00:17:05 <oklopol> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:17:07 <oklopol> > (def k (a) (lambda (b) a))
00:17:58 <ehird`> (def s (x) (lambda (y) (lambda (z) ((x z) (y z)))))
00:17:59 <ehird`> > (def s (x) (lambda (y) (lambda (z) ((x z) (y z)))))
00:19:18 <ehird`> http://rafb.net/p/Q6qc8624.html
00:19:21 <ehird`> i have no idea what went wrong
00:19:46 <oklopol> i can tell you on monday when i have time :<<<
00:20:21 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:20:32 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:20:33 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a))
00:20:59 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: you sure it isn't just in an infinite loop or smth?
00:21:11 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: make it print out EVERY iteration
00:22:20 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:22:47 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:22:59 -!- RedDak has joined.
00:23:02 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3)
00:24:12 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:24:26 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:24:45 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3)
00:25:49 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:26:01 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:26:05 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3)
00:26:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:27:04 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:27:16 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3)
00:31:22 -!- ecl has joined.
00:31:32 -!- ecl has left (?).
00:32:23 <bsmntbombdood> my algorithm, running on my computer, would take 460 years to compute hello world
00:33:25 <ehird`> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHSAADJOASDLSKHDLKF
00:36:19 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:36:41 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:36:59 -!- ehird` has left (?).
00:37:03 -!- ehird` has joined.
00:37:21 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:37:26 <ehird`> > (def k (a) (lambda (b) a))
00:38:05 <ehird`> ooh, i can reduce it a bit
00:38:50 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:39:01 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:39:15 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:39:16 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:39:37 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:40:06 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:40:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:48:00 <ehird`> I think the gc should work
00:48:04 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:48:26 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:48:27 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:48:54 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:48:58 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:06 <ehird`> > (def k (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:12 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:16 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:23 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:24 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:26 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:27 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:49:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:49:55 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:49:58 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:50:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:50:55 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:50:56 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:51:01 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:51:05 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:51:06 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:51:09 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:51:12 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:51:14 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:52:08 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:52:37 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:53:02 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:53:16 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:53:28 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:53:30 <ehird`> i'm putting the finishing touches on lithpbot's gc
00:53:34 <ehird`> yes -- a gc written in python
00:54:12 <ehird`> i do, because i append every object to a list
00:54:18 <ehird`> for the sole purpose of keeping them alive
00:54:36 <ehird`> i wonder, how many objects should i let be allocated before i gc()?
00:55:03 <ehird`> give me a number :P i can't decide how many objects it can allocate before i run the gc
00:56:01 <ehird`> with the fast turnover of irc it's about right
00:57:51 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:58:01 <ehird`> made it save symbols and numbers
00:58:02 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:58:02 <oerjan> it should probably depend on how many objects remained after the last gc
00:58:12 <ehird`> > > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:58:15 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:58:20 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
00:58:36 <jix> any reason to use hex numbers?
00:58:46 <ehird`> because it's a faux-memory location
00:58:53 <oerjan> twice that + 200, perhaps?
00:59:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:59:30 * ehird` debugs to check symbol/etc saving is working
00:59:33 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:00:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:00:39 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:01:24 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:01:32 <ehird`> I didn't actually fill the dict =)
01:01:35 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:01:41 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:02:12 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:03:17 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:03:56 <ehird`> Ok, something ELSE is making it grow.
01:04:35 <oerjan> a monster hiding in your code, growing..
01:04:37 <ehird`> it retains quote and a
01:04:41 <ehird`> and quote just returns its first arg
01:05:06 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:05:10 <ehird`> more debug output time.
01:05:17 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:06:01 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:06:03 <oerjan> the cons cells in (quote a) themselves?
01:06:11 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:06:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:06:36 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:06:38 <ehird`> It should take up memory, right?
01:06:46 <ehird`> I shouldn't cache cons cells should I?
01:06:50 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
01:06:51 <ehird`> > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))
01:07:08 <oerjan> unless you are using hash consing, that would be hard
01:07:28 <ehird`> ok, so the functions right now are
01:07:33 <ehird`> lambda, quote, set, def, if
01:07:38 <jix> in which language is it written?
01:07:40 <ehird`> I wonder what comes next, logically, for 'essentialness'?
01:07:43 <ehird`> I'd guess cons, car, cdr
01:07:50 <oklopol> everything is so similar and anything.
01:07:52 <ehird`> jix: Python. with a gc implemented in Python!
01:07:56 <ehird`> oklopol: hey! welcome back from sleep :P
01:08:02 <ehird`> oklopol: I got your example working
01:08:05 <jix> that has style
01:08:06 <ehird`> oklopol: and I wrote a goddamn gc
01:08:25 <jix> writing a realtime gc is harder
01:08:36 <ehird`> jix: yeah it does a Big Global Stop
01:08:38 <oklopol> i'm a bit too tired to get excited right now
01:08:57 <jix> ehird`: you either have to add code to all reads or to all writes (which is more sane as reads are more common)
01:09:01 <jix> that sucks...
01:09:28 <jix> you do care if you need speed
01:09:49 <jix> so if you need speed and realtime ... :/
01:10:18 <jix> and you don't need realtime
01:10:22 <oklopol> ehird` must be after speed, that's why he's simulating a gc.
01:10:24 <jix> but i was talking about writing a gc in general
01:10:53 <oklopol> two gc's on top of each other must naturally be twice as fast.
01:10:55 <jix> because the only thing i read about gcs is how to do a realtime gc because i thought i need that but then i didn't do that project anyway
01:11:09 <jix> oklopol: as bf interpreted in bf is twice as fast as uh wait...
01:11:14 <oklopol> i'll try sleeping again, see ya :|
01:11:27 <ehird`> can't you test my lexical scoping :P
01:11:38 <oklopol> i saw your tests already :)'
01:11:53 <ehird`> but that's not lexical scoping
01:12:15 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:12:23 <jix> the last nights were horrible... i was soldering stuff the last whole days and then i started to dream of soldering SOIC chips and made one solder bridge next to the other :(
01:12:35 <jix> even worse than it was in real
01:12:36 <ehird`> i'll stop that crapping out, wait
01:13:11 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:13:23 <ehird`> now there's cons and car/cdr
01:13:59 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:14:09 <ehird`> you can do (def f () a)
01:14:46 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:15:05 <oklopol> did.i.do.something.wrong.or.was.the.bot.the.one.doing.the.non.working?
01:15:37 <ehird`> that isn't all of it :<
01:15:48 <oklopol> hah, you have the same thing i have
01:16:08 <oerjan> the same thing i berated oklopol for
01:16:32 <oklopol> oerjan: you are all red and gooey
01:16:41 <ehird`> self.closure = table.copy()
01:16:43 <oklopol> perhaps it's the highlight.
01:16:44 <ehird`> THAT might be the problem
01:17:07 <ehird`> so, i don't see how else i could make a closure
01:17:12 <ehird`> oerjan: how could I? :P
01:17:18 <oerjan> indeed you want tables by reference in scheme
01:17:29 <ehird`> right, but how would i do that here
01:17:52 <oerjan> scopes are essentially mutable objects
01:18:00 <ehird`> but, unlike some implementations
01:18:07 <ehird`> i don't have [{},{}...{}] as a scope
01:18:12 <ehird`> and copy it to get a function's closure
01:18:28 <jix> ehird`: you have to keep a list of tables i think
01:18:29 <oerjan> an alternative is to have an indirection
01:18:42 <oerjan> storing a variable as a mutable cell
01:18:42 <jix> and first look in the first table then in the next one
01:18:56 <ehird`> jix: yeah, but how do i make a closure then? when i've done that all hell breaks loos
01:19:00 <oerjan> and storing a reference to that cell in the scope table
01:19:15 <oerjan> then you can do tables by copy
01:19:22 <ehird`> but oerjan's is probably better
01:19:27 <ehird`> i'll have a class "var"
01:19:34 <ehird`> which has a property "dest", which is an object
01:19:40 <oerjan> mine is used much in languages where most variables _aren't_ mutable
01:19:41 <ehird`> and store {name: var-object} in the table
01:19:54 <ehird`> although with that way
01:20:06 <ehird`> without x being defined before
01:20:11 <ehird`> but that's a problem now anyway
01:20:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out).
01:20:44 <oerjan> ah yes that's a problem in scheme, you have all those forward references
01:20:59 <ehird`> should i kill myself or is there a way out? :P
01:21:00 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:21:02 <jix> but i don't know the details right now... the only scoping thing i recently wrote was the one for the macro assembler i'm working on and that one is completely borked
01:21:41 <oerjan> i think a list of scopes fits scheme better
01:22:39 <oerjan> ML/haskell essentially need a complete preparsing stage on anything that can contain forward references (the whole module in haskell, each rec block in ML)
01:23:12 <oerjan> (well haskell even allows mutually recursive modules, but support is a bit sketchy)
01:23:19 <ehird`> so how would i grab a closure?
01:24:17 <oerjan> let each scope contain a reference to its parent
01:24:27 <oerjan> and just use references to them
01:24:34 <ehird`> [{_p: None, ...}, ..., {_p: prev, ...}]
01:24:42 <ehird`> but how exactly do i get a closure
01:25:09 <oerjan> you store the surrounding scope with the function
01:25:28 <ehird`> so... just copy the list of scopes, really
01:25:35 <ehird`> self.closure = scopes[:]
01:26:12 <oerjan> you don't need copy, just reference
01:26:30 <ehird`> that won't copy the scope mappings
01:26:32 <ehird`> just the list of scopes
01:26:45 <oerjan> um, the scopes are the scope mapping
01:26:56 <oerjan> as far as i consider it
01:27:14 <ehird`> [{k:v},{k:v},...{k:v}]
01:27:18 <ehird`> [...] is the list of scopes
01:27:22 <ehird`> each individual one is a scope
01:27:29 <oerjan> note that scope are mutable and you want changes to them to be shared
01:27:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
01:27:44 <ehird`> coping the list of scopes
01:27:48 <ehird`> does not copy the individual scopes
01:28:28 <oerjan> however, you don't need a list, if each scope contains a reference to its parent
01:29:17 <ehird`> right, but they're basically equiv.
01:29:25 <ehird`> it's stack-as-linked-list vs stack-as-array
01:29:31 <jix> ehird`: no
01:29:38 <oklopol> you all have a point. hang on to it, i'll try sleeping ->
01:29:41 <jix> because you will get a tree
01:30:02 <jix> hmm but yeah array would work too but you'd keep more copys...
01:30:03 <ehird`> table = {_p: {...}, blah}
01:30:12 <ehird`> but that won't work!!!
01:30:17 <ehird`> because, if a value is updated in table
01:31:00 <ehird`> i only need new scopes for functions, right?
01:31:05 <ehird`> i.e. push a scope for funcall
01:32:39 <oerjan> more or less, everything desugars to lambdas
01:34:19 <oerjan> maybe i should mention i only understand the theory, i've never tried to implement it :D
01:35:34 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:35:40 <ehird`> let's see if this works.
01:35:46 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:36:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:36:34 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:36:47 <oerjan> when you call a function you don't just push a new scope
01:36:58 <ehird`> you save the old scope-list
01:37:03 <ehird`> make the new one your closure
01:37:03 <oerjan> you also replace the entire stack with the one in the closure
01:37:09 <ehird`> then restore it at the end
01:37:27 <ehird`> > (def g () (set x 7) (f))
01:37:40 <ehird`> oerjan: this is dynamic scoping
01:37:46 <ehird`> this is fucked up scoping
01:37:59 <ehird`> > (def g () (set x 7) (f))
01:38:01 <oerjan> because you never defined x, so it's at top level
01:38:20 <ehird`> set x 7 should have set it in g's scope
01:38:22 <ehird`> then f should have ignored it
01:38:25 <ehird`> my lisp does not work that way
01:39:05 <ehird`> you agree that that is wrong?
01:39:07 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:39:11 <oerjan> that is a bit impractical if you _do_ want to set a variable which exists in an outer scope
01:39:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:39:36 <jix> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++.
01:39:45 <ehird`> > (def g () (set x 7) (f))
01:39:47 <jix> not optimal yet ^^
01:39:51 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:39:55 <ehird`> I was trying to read my debug output
01:40:02 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:40:46 <ehird`> oerjan: i need to push a new stack AFTER replacing the closure
01:41:11 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:41:22 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:41:39 <ehird`> > (def g () (set x 7) (f))
01:43:04 <oerjan> now let me try something more complicated
01:43:26 <ehird`> i'll implement arithmetic while yo udo
01:44:20 <ehird`> oerjan: i'm excited what is it
01:45:56 <ehird`> what arithmetic do you need
01:46:00 <ehird`> i'll implement those first
01:46:23 <ehird`> i just finished doing +
01:46:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:46:36 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:46:38 <oerjan> anyway i'm not sure it will work because of your strange set
01:47:31 <oerjan> > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x) )
01:47:37 <ehird`> spaces freak it out oerjan
01:47:41 <ehird`> remove that one at the tend
01:47:47 <oerjan> > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x))
01:47:50 <ehird`> it's paul graham's thing :)
01:48:06 <oerjan> > (set f (counter 42))
01:48:37 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:48:44 <ehird`> i didn't eval the arguments to +
01:48:48 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:48:49 <ehird`> > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x))
01:48:53 <ehird`> > (set f (counter 42))
01:49:06 <ehird`> why does that not work?
01:49:18 <ehird`> should changes like that persist?
01:49:21 <oerjan> there are two different x'es
01:49:28 <ehird`> that would mean, all variables change
01:49:38 <ehird`> oerjan: ok, how should i do it to make that work
01:50:06 <oerjan> you need to make set not introduce a new variable if there is one in an outer scope
01:50:35 <oerjan> also you need a way to introduce one anyhow. def is fine for that.
01:50:44 <ehird`> set will introduce if it doesn't find on
01:51:23 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:51:34 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:52:05 <ehird`> i changed set to do that
01:52:11 <oerjan> > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x))
01:52:18 <oerjan> > (set f (counter 42))
01:52:19 <ehird`> it searches down until it finds a var, if it doesn't find one, it creates one in the current scope
01:52:28 <ehird`> i can't think when you'd need to just define a var, so :)
01:53:02 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:53:14 -!- lithpbot has joined.
01:53:24 <ehird`> oerjan: so when would you want to define a var but not set it?
01:53:29 <ehird`> > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x))
01:53:32 <ehird`> > (set f (counter 42))
01:53:37 <oerjan> it's just a matter of hygiene
01:53:56 <ehird`> oerjan: ok, well "def" defines functions
01:54:02 <ehird`> oerjan: give me a name for 'make var, but don't set it'
01:54:29 <ehird`> but, yeah, give me a name
01:54:34 <oerjan> > (set g (counter 50))
01:54:36 <ehird`> also, it has to set the var somehow
01:54:56 <ehird`> but, what should it set it to?
01:55:03 <ehird`> it has to set it for it to get in the table
01:55:31 <oerjan> it's not about not setting
01:55:39 <ehird`> what does defvar do then
01:56:42 <oerjan> it's about not confusing local and global variables by accident
01:57:25 <jix> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.-------------------------------------------------------------------.------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.-------------------------------------------------------------------.
01:57:34 <ehird`> oerjan: so tell me what it should do!
01:57:39 <ehird`> what does defvar do, exactly
01:57:41 <jix> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++.<+++.>----------------------------------------------------------------.------------.<++++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++.------.<-------------------.>-
01:57:42 <jix> --------------------------------------------------------------------------.
01:57:49 <oerjan> the basic idea for this being that set should _never_ create a new variable, while def always should unless there already is one in the exactly same scope
01:58:02 <ehird`> so what should def set the var to?
01:58:27 <oerjan> (def x 1) would set it to 1
01:59:05 <oerjan> in scheme, define is for both
01:59:47 <oerjan> although think about it, you can get around the need for defvar with some lambda trickery
02:01:08 <ehird`> tell me what def should do in pseudocode
02:01:10 <oerjan> > (def counter2 (a) (lambda (x) ((lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x) x)))
02:01:36 <oerjan> > (set h (counter2 3))
02:02:13 <ehird`> counter2 returns a lambda
02:02:19 <ehird`> lambda need to be given arguments
02:02:35 <ehird`> so, can you tell me what def does
02:02:55 <oerjan> > (def counter2 (a) ((lambda (x) ((lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) x))
02:03:18 <ehird`> what does def do??????
02:03:27 <oerjan> > (def counter2 (a) ((lambda (x) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) x))
02:03:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:03:59 <oerjan> def introduces a new variable unless there is one in exactly the same scope
02:04:41 <ehird`> and if there is one in the same scope what does it do?
02:04:46 <ehird`> if i know these two things, i can do it
02:04:51 <oerjan> then it just sets that instead
02:04:59 <jix> !bf +++++++[>+>+++<<-]>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.------------.>++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<+.>>++++++++++.
02:05:22 <jix> ok the A* - closed list part works :)
02:05:32 <jix> (where - is without)
02:05:46 <jix> that part of the A* algorithm introduces more overhead than it does good in this case
02:07:15 <jix> and it's like 1000 times faster than my old lisp implementation
02:07:18 <ehird`> and also added -, *, /
02:07:21 -!- lithpbot has joined.
02:07:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:08:20 -!- lithpbot has joined.
02:08:29 <lithpbot> (err) need at least 3 args, got 2
02:09:31 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:09:42 -!- lithpbot has joined.
02:09:48 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:10:03 * oerjan calls the acronym police
02:10:13 -!- lithpbot has joined.
02:10:51 <ehird`> > (def counter (a) (def x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x))
02:10:51 <lithpbot> (err) def takes 2 arguments if not defining func
02:11:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:11:42 -!- lithpbot has joined.
02:11:43 <ehird`> > (def counter (a) (def x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x))
02:12:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:12:34 <oerjan> btw didn't you have to go?
02:12:37 -!- lithpbot has joined.
02:13:17 <ehird`> tomorrow: persistance of memor
02:13:19 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:14:23 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:27:18 <jix> !bf ++++++++++[->>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++[<]<]>>>>>>>++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.<<++++.<++.>>>++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<<<+.<<.
02:27:57 <jix> the first part is a stupid hardcoded value
02:28:10 <jix> "++++++++++[->>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++[<]<]" that part
02:28:33 <jix> but when you start with that part you shouldn't be able to get below 168 bytes
02:28:39 <bsmntbombdood> that's pretty much what my greedy algorithm is like
02:28:49 <jix> mine isn't greedy
02:29:16 <jix> i use a modified A* so it is optimal
02:29:42 <jix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*_search_algorithm
02:30:13 <jix> but my heuristic is pretty bad atm so it isn't as fast as it could be
02:31:12 <jix> all posibilities to print the string using ><+-. given a initial pointer position and memory state represent a graph
02:31:28 <jix> where each edge represents the printing of one character
02:32:24 <jix> you can assign weights to the edges... the number of chars it takes to output that character
02:32:48 <jix> then you can use any algorithm to search the shortest path in a graph to get the optimal code for that initial memory state
02:33:44 <jix> that tree is pretty large
02:35:10 <jix> i skipped the part witht he closed list because i was lazy and skipping that part can't result in a wrong result
02:35:12 <jix> it only makes it slower
02:35:26 <jix> and it's fast enough right now
02:36:05 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder what the best way to choose the initial state is
02:36:42 <bsmntbombdood> i was think try all possibilities of evenly distributed ints in largestchar-smallestchar of the input string
02:37:32 <jix> smaller than smallest char might even be better
02:37:47 <jix> try to output 13
02:38:09 <jix> i hope that number was the right one
02:38:32 <jix> +++[->++++<]>+. is shorter than +++++++[->++<]>-.
02:38:44 <jix> the first one generates 12 (which is below the char 13)
02:39:11 <jix> and if you have the string 13,50,30,60 it would be bad to not generate the 13 using 3*4+1
02:39:44 <bsmntbombdood> well, what i was doing tried up to 8 factors of [2, 256]
02:40:56 <bsmntbombdood> if you had a small way to generate them you could do the most common letters in the string
02:42:40 <oerjan> you might go backwards - find the initial state that makes the rest shortest
02:44:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:47:31 <jix> !bf +++++++++[->++++++++>+++++<<]>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>++++++++++.
02:47:51 <jix> !bf +++++++++[->++++++++>+++++>+<<<]>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>+.
03:17:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:18:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
03:26:28 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
04:01:27 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving.").
04:05:08 -!- pikhq has joined.
04:16:18 -!- cherez has joined.
06:44:47 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:47:20 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
07:22:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:33:29 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
09:09:53 -!- RedDak has joined.
10:44:56 -!- Tritonio has joined.
11:04:28 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:13:45 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
11:37:22 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:39:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:52:49 -!- lament has joined.
11:53:47 -!- jix has joined.
11:54:37 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:19:17 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:21:58 <jix> !bf +++++++++[->+++++++++++>++++++++>+++++>+<<<<]>>.<++.+++++++..+++.>>-.------------.<<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>>+.>+.
12:23:41 <dbc> ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>->+>>+[<]<-]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++.
12:24:02 <dbc> !bf ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>->+>>+[<]<-]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++.
12:24:28 <jix> i know my textgen isn't perfect yet ;)
12:24:37 <dbc> Neither am I :)
12:25:44 <jix> but i haven't implemented nested loops for the first part yet
12:35:43 <dbc> !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]
12:35:45 <EgoBot> ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++
12:36:10 <dbc> !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]
12:36:14 <EgoBot> ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++
12:36:22 <dbc> Hm, that's odd.
12:38:46 <jix> !bf 124 (140): ++++++++++[->+++++++>++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<<]>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.<++++.>>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
12:39:10 <dbc> !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]++++++++++.
12:39:13 <EgoBot> ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++
12:39:28 <dbc> ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]++++++++++.
12:39:40 <dbc> !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]++++++++++.
12:39:44 <EgoBot> ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++
12:42:07 <jix> maybe egobot has a line length limit?
12:43:56 <dbc> !bf >>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<<<++++[>++++++++++[>++++++++++[>.<-]<-]<-]
12:44:00 <EgoBot> (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
12:44:01 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:44:20 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:44:36 <dbc> Yup. 381 characters.
12:44:50 <dbc> That quine is 392.
12:44:52 <jix> make it shorter then ;)
12:47:24 <dbc> Hm, that doesn't work.
12:48:54 <dbc> !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
12:49:14 <jix> !bf_textgen Hello, world!
12:49:23 <jix> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
12:49:44 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
12:49:45 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
12:50:18 <EgoBot> 121 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++><<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [205]
12:50:28 <jix> uh that one is stupid ><
12:51:46 <jix> ah it doesn't include the newline
12:51:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:52:00 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:59:02 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:05:42 -!- RedDak has joined.
13:24:07 -!- oklopl has joined.
13:27:17 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:27:20 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:28:21 -!- oklopol has joined.
13:33:47 <jix> !bf +++++++++++++++[->+++++>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++<<<<<]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>>-.<++.<-.<.>-----.<---.--------.>>+.
13:34:01 <jix> my best one without \n so far
13:34:53 <jix> !bf +++[->+++++<]>[->+++++>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++<<<<<]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>>-.<++.<-.<.>-----.<---.--------.>>+.
13:35:04 <jix> and some manual tweeking makes it even better
13:38:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:39:52 -!- oklopol has joined.
13:48:59 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:49:08 -!- RedDak has joined.
13:58:53 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
14:06:37 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:18:30 <jix> !bf +++++++[->++++++[->++>++>+<<<]>-->+++>-[<]<]>>++.>.>--.
14:40:37 <jix> !bf ++++++++++[->+++++[->+>++>++>++>+<<<<<]>++>>+>++>->+++[<]<]>>++.>+.>--..+++.>>++++.>++.<<-.<.>-----.<---.<-.>>>>+.
14:40:45 <jix> but without newline
14:43:50 <jix> !bf 113 (134): ++++++++[->+++++[->++>++>+++>+>+<<<<<]>->+++>>-[<]<]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>>++++.<.<-.<.>-----.<---.--------.>>+.
14:51:01 <jix> !bf ++++++[->++++++[->++>+++>+++>+++>+>+<<<<<<]>>->>++>+[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>>++.>----.<<-.<.>-----.<---.<-.>>>>+.
14:54:02 -!- pikhq has joined.
14:57:53 <jix> with newline:
14:57:55 <jix> !bf 119 (136): ++++++[->+++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>->>+>++[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+.>--.
14:58:30 <jix> that's not hello world
14:58:47 <jix> !bf ++++++[->+++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>->>+>++[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+.>--.
14:59:31 <jix> ah found the bug i think
14:59:54 <jix> !bf +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>->>+>+[<]<]>>.>++.>..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+.>+.
15:02:28 <jix> not shorter than dbc's but it takes only 15 secs to generate that
15:05:48 <jix> wait dbc's generates a different output
15:06:24 <jix> yeah i'm getting that down to 106 bytes too ^^
15:08:11 <jix> but that seems to be some magicall limit
15:08:40 <jix> it reaches 106 pretty fast and then stalls
15:10:53 <jix> !bf +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>>->>+[<]<]>>.>>++.<..+++.>>----.+++.<.<++++.----.+++++.>.<--.>++++.------.>--.>+.
15:15:56 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:16:09 -!- oklopol has joined.
15:47:36 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:48:47 -!- oklopol has joined.
15:53:30 -!- oklopl has joined.
15:54:02 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:59:18 <jix> !bf +++++[->+++++[->++>++<<]>->>++[<]<]>>>+.<+.+++.>+.<.>+.++++.<+.++++.-.--.++.+++.>.<-.>.>.
16:02:51 -!- Nucleo has quit ("Snak 5.3.1 IRC for Macintosh - http://www.snak.com").
16:08:37 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:08:43 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:16:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:17:41 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:19:36 -!- ehird` has joined.
16:26:32 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:28:01 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:30:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:33:03 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:43:03 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:45:43 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:55:25 <dbc> I borrowed the exact output text from Urban Müller's hello world.
16:57:36 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:58:22 <dbc> (capital W and no comma, that is)
17:01:46 <jix> dbc: i'm able to get down to 106 bytes with that too... but not smaller
17:02:01 <ehird`> dbc: true hello world is: Hello, world!
17:03:01 <jix> !bf 106 (127): ++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>+>->+>>+[<]<]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++.
17:03:06 <jix> that's my version
17:03:20 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
17:03:34 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
17:03:36 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
17:03:42 <jix> ehird`: it takes some time
17:03:52 <jix> and it doesn't include the final newline
17:04:22 <EgoBot> 35 ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>>><<<<-]>. [43]
17:04:26 <EgoBot> 117 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>+++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>>++.<++++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [691]
17:04:34 <ehird`> ... the second one is x
17:04:40 <ehird`> hello world is tiny and "x" is huge XD
17:06:00 <jix> !bf 118 (140): +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+>+<<<<<]>>->>+>>+[<]<]>>.>++.>..+++.>-.>----.<<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>>+.>+.
17:06:06 <jix> with final newline
17:07:12 <jix> !bf 116 (160): +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+++>+<<<<<]>>->>+>+>+[<]<]>>.>++.>..+++.>>-.------------.<++.<.>-----.<---.<-.>>>+.>+.
17:08:19 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
17:12:38 <jix> !bf ++++++++[->+++++[->>++>+++>+++>+>+>++<<<<<<<]>+>->->-->+>-[<]<]>>>.>>+.>----.>.>++.<<<<-.>-----.+++.--.<+++.>>>>++.<<<+++.---.<<-.>.>.----.<++.<<++.
17:13:34 <jix> wahoo got a new shorter hello world!!!
17:13:49 <jix> 106 was the old record right?
17:14:07 <jix> !bf 104 (109): ++++++[->++++++[->++>+++>+++>+>++<<<<<]>>->>->++>++[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>++.>+++.<<.+++.------.<-.>>+.>>--.
17:14:30 <RodgerTheGreat> don't most of them generate the string "Hello, World!" ?
17:14:51 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: the 106 byte version generates "Hello World!" same for the original bf hello world (according to dbc)
17:15:12 <jix> and most generate "Hello, world!\n" this one generates "Hello World!\n"
17:15:57 <ehird`> "Hello, world!\n" is grammatically and unixly correct
17:16:16 <jix> but i was trying to get shorter than dbc's so i have to use the same output
17:16:21 <ehird`> unless Hello World is a name or title
17:17:05 * ehird` wonders what to name the equality predicate in his lisp
17:18:19 <ehird`> (eq 1 2) (equals 1 2) (= 1 2)
17:18:36 <ehird`> (eq '(1 2) '(3 4)) (equals '(1 2) '(3 4)) (= '(1 2) '(3 4))
17:19:07 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: it's a rather 'unique' lisp in that it's implemented in Python but I wrote my own GC ;D
17:19:53 <ehird`> it's a rather dumb stop-the-world mark and sweep gc
17:20:05 <ehird`> it runs every 200 object allocations.
17:22:30 <RodgerTheGreat> it'd be interesting if you exposed some of the GC's parameters to programs
17:23:27 <ehird`> IMO the gc is an implementation detial
17:23:38 <ehird`> (so is memory allocation)
17:23:54 <RodgerTheGreat> I suppose, but you could allow for greater performance tweaking
17:25:04 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:25:05 <ehird`> the gc cant even free because you can't free in python
17:25:09 <ehird`> it just removes it from the big list
17:25:14 <ehird`> which python's gc eventually collects
17:26:44 <ehird`> > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1)))))
17:26:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:27:08 <ehird`> it caused the gc to die
17:27:12 <ehird`> i have a bug in the gc
17:27:46 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:27:47 <ehird`> > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1)))))
17:27:52 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:30:03 <ehird`> let's try taht again :)
17:30:06 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:30:08 <ehird`> > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1)))))
17:30:17 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:30:23 <ehird`> maximum recursion depth
17:31:07 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:31:08 <ehird`> > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1)))))
17:31:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:31:52 <ehird`> Call #function:41 with [-29]
17:31:54 <ehird`> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :P
17:32:10 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:32:18 <ehird`> > (def isone (n) (eq n 1)
17:32:22 <ehird`> > (def isone (n) (eq n 1))
17:32:30 <ehird`> loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool?
17:33:15 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:33:26 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:33:27 <ehird`> > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1)))))
17:33:57 <ehird`> wow, that's pretty fast
17:34:11 <lithpbot> 265252859812191058636308480000000L
17:41:26 <ehird`> > (eval (quote (eval 2)))
17:43:46 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:44:07 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:44:09 <ehird`> > (eval (quote (eval 2)))
17:46:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:47:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:47:33 <ehird`> > (define a 2) (set a 5) a
17:49:13 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:49:24 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:50:20 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:50:31 -!- lithpbot has joined.
17:57:45 <jix> > (and 0 2)
17:57:51 <jix> > (and 0 (/ 1 0))
17:57:58 <ehird`> that should give an error
17:58:12 <ehird`> the error should bubble up
17:58:13 <jix> (at least i expect and to short cut)
18:00:05 <ehird`> i'm naming my auto-saving-to-disk InterpreterState replacement AutoPickleIntepreterState3000 :)
18:08:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:33:10 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:33:20 -!- jix has joined.
18:45:46 <ehird`> lisp object = symbol | cons pair | string | number, right?
18:47:38 <ehird`> i think i can pass on vectors :|
18:47:43 <ehird`> ports, maybe, but probably not needed
18:48:40 <ehird`> though i may change that
18:48:53 <ehird`> lists = well formed cons pairs + nil
18:49:11 <ehird`> although, i may represent them as python lists [1,2,3]
18:49:17 <ehird`> cheaper than linked list operations
18:49:24 <ehird`> (Though the slicing for cdr would be slow.
18:49:54 <bsmntbombdood> boolean, symbol, char, vector, procedure, pair, number, string, port
18:51:11 <ehird`> it's a superset and a subset
18:51:19 <ehird`> scheme \wonky-thing lisp
18:52:40 <ehird`> but anyway, i'm not sure i need booleans
18:52:47 <ehird`> if NIL is false and everything else is true
18:52:55 <ehird`> (i guess T will be a self-evaluating symbol too)
18:53:15 <ehird`> I find nil/t kind of ugly
18:53:20 <ehird`> #t and #f is much nicer
18:53:31 <ehird`> how does scheme do characters? the syntax
18:53:56 <ehird`> is that related to #t and #f in any way?
18:55:30 <ehird`> i've never got why scheme needed vectors
18:55:52 <ehird`> they don't seem important enough to become a core type
18:56:04 <bsmntbombdood> because there's no way to implement any O(1) access time collections without them
18:56:28 <ehird`> so basically vectors are an implementation detail kind of thing
18:56:39 <ehird`> 'our lists aren't arrays of memory, but we have a vector that is!'
19:01:09 <ehird`> i think i need ports, so
19:01:29 <ehird`> SYMBOL, CONS, STRING, NUMBER, PORT, NIL
19:01:37 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: do you really think anything else is useful?
19:02:16 <ehird`> but i really don't know why i would want vectors?
19:02:24 <ehird`> can you tell me a situation where they are really infinitely useful?
19:02:34 <bsmntbombdood> but really all you need to implement at first is pairs, symbols and fucntions
19:02:53 <bsmntbombdood> you can't implement hash tables, arrays without vectors
19:03:11 <bsmntbombdood> no collection can have better than linear time indexing
19:03:19 <ehird`> a vector is just a list that is an array of memory, right? nothing extra?
19:04:33 <ehird`> anyway, i know the standard functions for lists (car, cdr, cons, set-cdr, set-car, etc.) and numbers (well duh), but what about for ports and vectors?
19:04:37 <ehird`> what are the standard functions and their names?
19:05:45 <bsmntbombdood> call-with-input-port, call-with-output-port for opening files
19:06:03 <ehird`> wait, is that for vectors?
19:06:16 <ehird`> i think I will start with these:
19:06:24 <ehird`> SYMBOL, CONS, STRING, CHAR, NUMBER, BOOLEAN, FUNCTION, NIL
19:06:29 <ehird`> i'll leave out ports and vectors until later
19:08:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:12:11 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: do you think my errors should be first-class?
19:12:19 <ehird`> i could do things like implement try-catch then
19:13:23 -!- oklopol has left (?).
19:13:23 -!- oklopol has joined.
19:13:51 <ehird`> oklopol: i'm rewriting my lisp, again
19:14:06 <ehird`> i ditched multiple classes, now I just have a LispObject class
19:17:22 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: any opinions?
19:25:34 <oklopol> i guess i should start skipping the debugging parts of logs :)
19:26:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:27:52 <ehird`> oklopol: should i make lisp errors first-class lisp objects?
19:28:43 <ehird`> oklopol: or... nothing
19:28:47 <ehird`> i.e. just python exceptions
19:28:51 <ehird`> lisp objects would be cooler :P
19:30:47 <oklopol> i like having errors first class
19:30:55 <oklopol> in numbda, some syntax errors are first class.
19:32:13 <ehird`> it still throws by default
19:32:20 <ehird`> and manipulate it in lisp
19:33:58 <ehird`> does your lisp have floats or whatever?
19:35:01 <oklopol> hmm, i'm pretty sure it doesn't have floats if it doesn't have strings
19:35:52 <ehird`> oklopol: should i have error types and descriptions or just errors
19:36:08 <ehird`> "type=int-error, message=divide by zero"
19:36:18 <ehird`> instead of just "message=divide by zero"
19:36:42 <oklopol> just make one error type unless you have a more flexible type system overall
19:37:13 <oklopol> i don't see any point making error types really
19:37:21 <oklopol> unless you can define your own
19:37:32 <oklopol> since you can't pattern match on them or anything
19:37:36 <oklopol> also asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasd
19:37:58 <oklopol> tomorrow, test @ university, and i still gotta return my demos tonight.
19:38:13 <oklopol> i'm so tired i can barely keep my eyes opn
19:41:48 <oklopol> also, for some reason i'm going to watch a few episodes of south park first.
19:55:21 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: are characters automatically casted to strings in scheme?
20:21:54 <ehird`> oklopol: otools, what is it
20:33:31 <oklopol> otools is something i use for parsing
20:33:56 <oklopol> it basically does tokenization, and there may be an infix parser, don't remember
20:35:13 <oklopol> made my own, stringio lacked something, don't remember what
20:35:24 <ehird`> anyway, i'm writing a "tokentools" right now :)
20:35:29 <ehird`> it does tokenization and also some parsing helpers
20:35:43 <ehird`> e.g. an accept([tok,tok,tok...]) method
20:36:01 <oklopol> what i'd actually like is something like StringTokenizer in java
20:36:23 <oklopol> although you could improve it a lot.
20:36:34 <ehird`> mine is kind of like that
20:36:50 <ehird`> it's very flexible as far as where it splits actually
20:37:06 <ehird`> you give it a function to tell it whether a character is a splitter or not
20:37:14 <ehird`> and also ignores multiple splitters in a row
20:37:33 <ehird`> basically it tokenizes and helps a lot with parsing
20:37:43 <oklopol> why not give it a regexp representing a token?
20:38:09 <ehird`> because you can pass it str.isspaec
20:38:59 <ehird`> lambda x: x.isspace() or x == "+"
20:39:29 <oklopol> so... 4+5 would be ["4", "5"] and ignore the addition symbol?
20:40:03 <oklopol> or alternatively you'd have "4 5" be tokenized into ["4", " ", "5"], in case you save the separators as well
20:40:06 <ehird`> splittokens and ignoretokens
20:40:21 <oklopol> i think you need to think this through a bit ;)
20:40:22 <ehird`> Tokenizer(blah, x.isspace, lambda x: x == "+")
20:40:29 <oklopol> of course depends what you wanna use it for.
20:40:33 <ehird`> + is a splitter and gets added on
20:41:37 <oklopol> seems a bit hacky to me, but it seems to work for most grammars
20:42:10 <oklopol> i'm not sure if that's the right word
20:42:33 <ehird`> how should i do it then
20:42:59 <oklopol> yours will actually tokenize most things correct.
20:43:33 <ehird`> how should i do it though in your opinion
20:43:40 <oklopol> the problem with not using regexes is stuff that can be of any length naturally can't be parsed trivially, like numbers & identifiers
20:43:53 <oklopol> but you rarely have those next to each other without a space in between
20:44:14 <oklopol> the only stuff not always separated by ws are operators and parens, i think
20:44:33 <oklopol> and what you thought of making actually parses that quite nicely
20:44:59 <ehird`> how about i just return delimiters
20:45:04 <oklopol> i'm not telling you what to do, just analyzing that for fun; also, demos
20:45:26 <ehird`> new StringTokenizer(blah, "abc", true)
20:45:32 <ehird`> third optional parameter is returnDelims
20:45:37 <ehird`> that's how you would e.g. parse sexprs
20:45:50 <ehird`> if tok.isspace(): continue
20:46:57 <ehird`> oklopol: seems flexible enough, no?
20:47:23 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:48:08 <oklopol> these exercises we gotta do at home and demonstrate for the whole calssa
20:48:50 <ehird`> oklopol: your lisp doesn't do tail recursion
20:49:04 <oklopol> i couldn't think of a trivial way to do that
20:49:31 <oklopol> i can now, i prolly could then too, but was too lazy even for that
20:49:38 <ehird`> while last_caller == self: ...
20:50:00 <ehird`> all wrapped in a while True:
20:50:07 <oklopol> hmm, you do know when tail recursion applies?
20:50:20 <oklopol> or was that just a simplification
20:50:24 <ehird`> when you're at the end and there's a list with eval(car) == sel
20:50:32 <ehird`> end = end of execution, not function
20:51:44 <oklopol> you can just as well have circular recursion, and still have tail recursion
20:52:00 <oklopol> in fact, in some languages, you don't even need to recurse and still have tail recursion.
20:52:19 <oklopol> if you can do code generation @ runtime
20:55:13 <oklopol> glah, okay, i *have* to start them now; and i will! ->
20:56:13 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:58:24 -!- dak has joined.
20:58:58 * oklopol loves doing ascii karnaugh maps...
20:59:54 <ehird`> oklopol: i thought you were starting them
21:00:21 <oklopol> that what the karnaugh map is for
21:03:13 <oklopol> i don't understand why we have to do this stuff, base-10 addition is harder than boolean algebra
21:03:45 <ehird`> well i find base-10 addition really hard! i have 8 fingers!
21:05:35 -!- RedDak has quit (No route to host).
22:10:58 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:18:16 -!- dak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:43:57 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:52:43 * pikhq cleans up 10,000 blue voting credits
22:55:40 <Sgeo> I suppose no one's going to work on PSOX for me? lol
22:55:57 <ehird`> i thought you were so infatuated with it all you did was work on it :p
22:56:07 * Sgeo has become distracted from it :(
23:12:11 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:12:25 -!- oklopol has joined.
23:20:01 * pikhq has removed 10,000 blue voting credits from 10,000 CFJs
23:23:02 <oklopol> is it possible to do a crossing in wireworld?
23:23:34 <oklopol> i remember trying to do it some time ago, but forgot to ask here where someone might actually know
23:27:06 <ehird`> oklopol: my lisp is going to have loads more things in this incarnation
23:27:26 <ehird`> currently i have symbol, cons, string, character, number, boolean, procedure, primitive, error, nil
23:27:31 <ehird`> and i plan to add port and vector
23:28:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
23:30:22 <ehird`> bindings[LispObject(SYMBOL, "prim_name")] = LispObject(PRIMITIVE, prim_func, (min, max)) # is a bit ugly though
23:36:05 <oklopol> i actually don't know what that is in lisp at all, perhaps i should check instead of guessing.
23:36:07 <ehird`> stdin, stdout, files, streams, ...
23:36:13 <ehird`> basically it's a stream
23:36:18 <ehird`> a socket would also be a port, for example
23:36:40 <oklopol> anyways, what are you using them for?
23:37:00 <oklopol> i just realized your lisp isn't made just for an irc bot, i just wanted you to put it on one.
23:37:25 <ehird`> this time i'm going to create a seperate program for the bot
23:37:28 <oklopol> i couldn't make one of the assignments :<<
23:37:30 <ehird`> and make it call out to the lisp one
23:37:45 <ehird`> so i don't add irc-specific stuff to the interp
23:37:49 <ehird`> and also if it crashes
23:44:31 <oerjan> ehird`: you could create an irc module or something to load
00:05:57 <bsmntbombdood> <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: are characters automatically casted to strings in scheme?
00:15:55 <ehird`> Now you're thinking with Portals.
00:17:43 <ehird`> i was expecting a picture of some circular blue flames
00:17:55 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: that's unbelievably cool
00:18:31 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: PORTALS REQUIRE OTHER PORTALS.
00:18:45 <ehird`> OTHERWISE HOW WILL YOU WALK THROUGH THEM.
00:42:01 -!- ihope has joined.
00:42:44 <ehird`> oklopol: the core is done
00:42:49 <ehird`> all that's left is primitives
00:44:00 <ihope> Apparently, the name "Elliot" is just about as common as the name "Elliott".
00:44:13 <ihope> Nobody in the United States is named Tedd.
00:45:47 <ehird`> In one or two cases, Eliot
00:46:30 <ihope> Neither of the one-L variations are listed here: http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/dist.male.first
00:46:43 <ihope> (Which obviously contains the names of everybody in the United States, right?)
00:46:57 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:47:34 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:48:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:48:32 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:48:40 <ehird`> Yay! (it's running a subprocess :))
00:48:54 <ehird`> Oh... problem with running a subprocess
00:48:58 <ehird`> definitions won't be saved XD
00:49:02 <ehird`> never mind, i can pickle in the interpreter
00:49:24 <lithpbot> (error) Can't iterate over non-list
00:49:49 <ihope> That doesn't sound right.
00:50:15 <ihope> > (conth conth nil)
00:50:15 <lithpbot> (error) Unbound variable conth
00:50:26 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:50:37 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:50:45 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:51:05 -!- lithpbot has joined.
00:51:08 <lithpbot> (error) Can't iterate over non-list
00:54:54 <ehird`> > "hello world \"string\""
00:54:58 <ehird`> > "hello world \"string\" \\a"
00:55:02 <ehird`> > "hello world \"string\" \\a \a"
00:55:02 <lithpbot> "hello world \"string\" \\a a"
00:55:17 <lithpbot> (error) Unbound variable quote
00:55:36 <ehird`> ihope: one thing it really is missing syntax-wise is .-syntax
00:55:40 <ehird`> that is (a . b) (a b c . d) etc
00:57:05 <ihope> > #antiquixoticism
00:57:13 <ihope> Well, that didn't work.
00:57:24 <ehird`> what does #blah represent? nothing, it's meaningless
00:57:45 <ehird`> #t and #f are obviously true and false
00:57:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:58:22 <ehird`> i only have lambda right now
00:58:31 <ehird`> haven't implemented any primitives yet (apart from of course lambda)
00:59:04 <lithpbot> (error) while parsing: Unknown #-syntax
00:59:22 <ihope> > ((lambda (lambda) lambda) 3)
00:59:31 <ehird`> thanks, you made it crash
00:59:39 <ihope> You're welcome :-)
01:00:34 <ehird`> funcalls are broken :D
01:02:51 <ehird`> > ((lambda (lambda) lambda) 3)
01:03:02 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:03:02 <ehird`> it does proper lexical scoping too
01:03:06 <ehird`> though you can't see that
01:03:10 <ehird`> since there is no define/set right now
01:03:25 <ihope> > (((lambda (lambda) (lambda (lambda) 2)) 3) 4)
01:03:26 <lithpbot> (error) Can't call non-procedure 3
01:04:14 <ehird`> error handling works right, good :)
01:04:28 <ehird`> it's 373 lines of code, including the parser etc
01:04:42 <ihope> Write that parser in Redivider! :-)
01:04:48 <ehird`> SYMBOL, CONS, STRING, CHARACTER, NUMBER, BOOLEAN, PROCEDURE, PRIMITIVE, ERROR, NILT
01:04:55 <ehird`> and i'm going to add PORT and VECTOR soon
01:06:25 <ehird`> but i want a lisp in python
01:07:01 <ehird`> i'll write primitives tomorrow
01:08:05 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:08:12 -!- lithpbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:14:02 <oerjan> @@ @read @elite @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal
01:14:15 * oerjan runs after Wong with an axe
01:15:06 <ihope> Does that make sense?
01:15:26 <oerjan> actually i switched @read and @elite
01:15:35 <oerjan> as for the output, certainly not :D
01:20:07 <ihope> Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse
01:20:35 <ihope> Oh, swapping them yields sense.
01:21:07 <oerjan> yeah, @read needs a well-formed "string"
01:21:18 <oerjan> which @elite certainly does not give
01:21:34 <ihope> So it grabs a Keal quote, reverses every word, and leets the thing?
02:03:25 -!- AnMaster_ has joined.
02:04:08 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
03:20:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:21:43 -!- oklopol has joined.
03:39:03 <lament> did you write an essay about brainfuck?
03:40:29 <pikhq> Everyone's got AIDS!
03:43:24 -!- Slereah has joined.
04:21:46 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:48:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
04:50:24 -!- ^_` has joined.
04:50:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.).
04:50:41 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey.
05:05:51 -!- ^_` has joined.
05:06:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.).
05:06:13 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey.
05:39:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:40:59 -!- calamari has joined.
05:58:51 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: that's like incredibly bad?
06:00:30 <oklopol> in that case it's probable that either 1. at least one of my suggested corrections would've made it better or 2. you applied some of them and that helped you reach that nice middlish number
06:00:52 <oklopol> hmm, not sure i suggested that many
06:01:12 <oklopol> i got 95 on my english essay!
06:01:33 <oklopol> ...i'm pretty sure we have the same level here
06:01:40 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee").
06:08:52 <oklopol> bsmntbom1dood: were there any comments on it?
06:09:30 <oklopol> heh, my friend did a spoken presentation on brainfuck once
06:12:26 -!- oerjan has joined.
06:28:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:37:34 -!- immibis has joined.
06:52:31 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:50:48 -!- immibis_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:12:55 -!- immibis_ has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!").
08:18:35 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:47:15 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:16:00 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit ("using sirc version 2.211").
09:27:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
10:15:59 <oklopol> i type a lot more per minuet
10:22:22 <oklopol> ...me stealing your joke and adding some bragging?
10:24:34 <oerjan> although i was just trying to snatch it back
10:25:18 <oklopol> managed to add some typicality by not understanding you ;;;)
10:25:43 <oklopol> and making a lame-ass smiley, god i'm predictable
10:25:53 <oklopol> (also this metastuff is pretty typical for me)
10:26:33 <oklopol> just had a test, answers, stuff explaining how i got them... but completely redundant
10:26:52 <oklopol> i mean, just explaining why i decided not to code in java or something
10:27:10 <oklopol> blah blah blah like 3 pages of stuff the professors are prolly not going to read
10:27:28 <oklopol> (and that's my last typicality, right here, thanks for watching)
10:27:42 <oklopol> except that wasn't all that long a monologue, i'm a bit tired
10:28:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
10:28:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
10:30:22 <oklopol> why is "oil" in the most used 100 words of english
10:30:45 <oklopol> well i guess that may depend on where it's collected..
10:31:59 <oerjan> was this that corpus that consisted partly of something from politics?
10:32:40 <oklopol> i don't know... realized that might be the issue here just after i'd said that
10:33:09 <oklopol> i actually don't remember where i got the list... so the origin could be anything really...
10:35:56 <oerjan> i recall someone doing something with a corpus, i may even have provided help finding it
10:36:04 <oklopol> adding basic vocabulary to my lang by taking the first few 2 of words from existing languages, the first 100 or so were fine, but finnish is the only language with unused prefixes left right now :\
10:36:09 <oerjan> so it may well be the same
10:37:09 <oklopol> it's prolly what google gives easiest.
10:41:15 <fizzie> Here are the 100 most common unigrams in approximately one trillion words of Interweb pages (with numbers and other non-words removed): http://www.cis.hut.fi/~htkallas/g1.txt
10:42:11 <oklopol> well fuck, that's completely different from what i had
10:42:18 <fizzie> Hey, it's the interweb.
10:42:27 <fizzie> I doubt anyone would want to use _that_.
10:42:55 <fizzie> (Courtesy of Web 1T 5-gram Version 1, Linguistic Data Consortium (LDC) catalog number LDC2006T13 and ISBN 1-58563-397-6; given the size of the thing, I think 100 words counts as an unsignificant sample and I won't get into trubble by "publishing" it.)
10:47:59 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster.
11:13:44 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p431131523.txt two hundred first ones should be integrated now
11:14:14 <oklopol> if someone wants to make a better one, i can make that the stdlib
11:14:26 <oklopol> you'll get your nick on the credits of my language
11:15:14 <oklopol> i was first thinking i'd just automatically generate that from wiktionary + most used words
11:15:26 <oklopol> but that was just too complicated..
11:47:27 -!- ihope has joined.
11:58:40 -!- zepolen has joined.
11:59:32 -!- zepolen has left (?).
12:13:28 -!- Sgeo has joined.
12:22:22 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
12:34:15 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
12:51:32 <Sgeo> Hi RodgerTheGreat
12:55:28 -!- drop_some_jewels has joined.
12:58:33 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:02:52 -!- oklopl has joined.
13:11:49 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:13:11 -!- oklopol has joined.
13:45:08 -!- ehird` has joined.
13:53:04 -!- lithpbot has joined.
13:53:47 * Sgeo wonders if he puts PSOX stuff into SVN, would anyone be willing to work on it?
13:53:58 <ehird`> Sgeo: you like psox so much, why should we work on it :P
13:54:01 <lithpbot> (error) Can't set undefined variable a
14:03:32 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:31:22 <oklopol> ehird`: still under construction?
14:31:43 <ehird`> oklopol: yeah i'm improving the bot
14:46:05 -!- jix has joined.
15:11:19 <ehird`> oklopol: i've rewrote the bot
15:11:23 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:11:26 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:11:46 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:11:57 <lithpbot> (error) Can't set undefined variable a
15:12:38 <ehird`> oklopol: btw, you can't set! a non-defined variable
15:12:56 <ehird`> > (define g () (set! a 7) (f))
15:13:32 -!- drop_some_jewels has quit ("Leaving").
15:14:23 <ehird`> oklopol: that is correct, right? set! is meant to go down the tree
15:14:50 <ehird`> > (define g () (define a 7) (f))
15:16:08 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:16:18 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:16:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:16:29 <ehird`> going to add another feature
15:18:06 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:18:09 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:18:33 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:18:36 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:18:47 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:18:50 <lithpbot> TypeError: peek() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
15:20:03 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:20:13 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:20:30 <ehird`> > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f))
15:20:35 <lithpbot> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bindings' referenced before assignment
15:21:31 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:21:42 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:21:43 <ehird`> > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) (g)
15:21:47 <lithpbot> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bindings' referenced before assignment
15:22:18 <ehird`> > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) (g)
15:22:40 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:22:51 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:22:53 <ehird`> > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) (g)
15:22:56 <lithpbot> (error) Unbound variable define
15:23:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:23:59 * Sgeo installs Windows 98, being sure to have sound enabled
15:24:02 <Sgeo> Erm, wrong channel
15:24:23 * Sgeo is playing with VirtualBox
15:24:36 <Sgeo> And there's a Win98 game I want to play
15:34:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:34:30 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:42:20 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:42:37 <lithpbot> hmm. this works from manual nc but not using nc -e
15:43:55 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has joined.
15:43:55 <Sgeo[Circe]> Hello Sgeo[Circe], and welcome to #esoteric
15:44:55 <ehird`> Sgeo[Circe]: ARE YOU A HUMAN OR A BOT. ok
15:45:08 <ehird`> Sgeo[Circe]: ; cat /etc/passwd #
15:45:32 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:45:56 <ehird`> nc -e ./run-bot irc.freenode.net 6667 # not wurkeratoring
15:46:02 <Sgeo[Circe]> This is actually an older version of the client..
15:46:32 <Sgeo[Circe]> And of course, no one develops or really even uses the client anymore..
15:47:20 <ehird`> does it have a website
15:48:46 <Sgeo> And the website is old.. Latest revision is 706
15:49:16 <ehird`> Circe uses python-irclib for IRC connections.
15:49:26 <Sgeo> Or maybe there's a repo elsewhere.. maintainer illegally Public Domain'd it and upgraded version to 0.1.0
15:49:37 <ehird`> why did they illegally pubdom it :|
15:49:44 <Sgeo> It was basically dead..
15:50:29 -!- lithpbot has joined.
15:50:40 <Sgeo> Public repo: svn://xbmodder.us/repos/circe
15:51:07 <ehird`> lithpbot just started working
15:51:29 * Sgeo[Circe] is running r681 with a patch to prevent checking the version..
15:52:12 <ehird`> process russian roulette
15:52:16 <ehird`> i have to pick a random process
15:54:01 <Sgeo> Are you going to try Circe?
15:54:40 * Sgeo[Circe] should work out what broke scripting between r681 and r706
15:55:09 <ehird`> i wouldn't want to maintain a thing like that :|
15:55:16 <ehird`> if it really is illegally pubdoms
15:55:25 <Sgeo> It used to be GPL
15:55:51 <ehird`> when faced with GPL, apply illegal license changing to your liking
15:56:05 <Sgeo> That's what the maintainer did >.>
15:56:24 <ehird`> good for him for ridding the world of another GPL package
15:57:00 <Sgeo> What's wrong with GPL?
15:57:29 <ehird`> it may be to the /letter/ of open software, but it's against the spirit
16:01:06 * Sgeo is going to mess with different revisions until he finds the one that broke scripting
16:01:15 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has quit ("Circe: http://circe.berlios.de/").
16:02:08 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has joined.
16:02:16 -!- Sgeo has left (?).
16:02:18 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:02:26 -!- Sgeo has left (?).
16:02:30 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:04:58 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has quit (Client Quit).
16:05:35 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has joined.
16:05:53 -!- Sgeo has left (?).
16:05:54 <ehird`> I'm going to write a tiny irc client
16:05:55 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:06:11 <Sgeo> Well, that line isn't going to be in my XChat log now
16:06:11 <ehird`> I'm going to write a tiny irc client :D
16:06:23 <ehird`> then said it for your logs :P
16:06:39 <ehird`> I should write this client in sh!
16:06:45 <Sgeo> Well, scripting fails in r690
16:07:12 <ehird`> I actually like circe's interface
16:07:24 <ehird`> I'll mimic it in my ui.gfx module
16:09:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Connection timed out).
16:11:23 * Sgeo fully FAILS to see how r690 broke scripting
16:14:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:15:06 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:19:16 <Sgeo> ehird`, puzzlet, want to see real insanity?
16:19:30 <Sgeo> http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/thread/99550.aspx
16:23:44 <Sgeo> Aug 27 19:26:55 <ProjectHead> its not "needed" but it would probably be easiest
16:23:44 <Sgeo> Aug 27 19:27:06 <ProjectHead> I'm not sure how else to go about reading commands in the order they appear
16:31:35 <Sgeo> puzzlet, ehird` ?
16:34:47 <ehird`> Sgeo: projecthead=circe guy right
16:35:08 <Sgeo> Although I got to the project because the Circe guy joined t
16:35:31 <ehird`> Aug 27 19:27:06 <ProjectHead>I'm not sure how else to go about reading commands in the order they appear
16:35:31 <ehird`> Aug 27 19:28:53 <Me>How about having the commands be in just a text file?
16:35:31 <ehird`> Aug 27 19:29:35 <ProjectHead>well how do I get it to parse it in order?
16:36:49 <ehird`> "Why would anybody choose to donate their time to a project headed by such a retard? I would never have the desire to contribute under such circumstances." truth
16:37:29 * Sgeo still autojoins the channel
16:37:39 <Sgeo> The project is dead btw
16:37:52 <ehird`> http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/permalink/99550/99561/ShowThread.aspx#99561 rms being batshit insane like usual
16:38:06 <ehird`> Was it called planeshift? :P
16:38:39 <ehird`> Sgeo: what was asylum?
16:38:57 <Sgeo> It was a project to build stuff from SVN
16:39:07 <Sgeo> The initial target was songbird
16:39:19 <ehird`> people should figure out how to use make and how to create proper makefiles
16:39:57 * Sgeo fixed a display problem..
16:40:28 * Sgeo rereads the asylum.py code
16:40:42 <Sgeo> It seems to act as a shellscript that prints progress reports
16:41:11 <Sgeo> "Purpose: Make svn builds of software on linux easier"
16:41:55 <ehird`> set the topic in #asylum to "asylum is no more... THANK GOD" :D
16:41:56 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> Welcome back to the project that's now deader than Circe
16:43:03 <ehird`> so, Sgeo, fancy helping out with an irc client in python? really minimal?
16:43:13 <ehird`> with a gui hopefully as minimal as circe? [and pluggable interfaces]?
16:43:13 <Sgeo> Another one? lol
16:43:21 <ehird`> i feel like making an irc client
16:43:36 * Sgeo shrugs. "Why not?"
16:43:46 <Sgeo> How far along is it
16:44:20 * Sgeo got into Circe when it had an interface, and could connect and stuff
16:44:28 <Sgeo> I added some CTCP stuff, actually..
16:44:41 <ehird`> the interface to start with will be text-based, methinks... ui.text or whatever
16:44:49 <ehird`> then, ui.wx or ui.gtk or whatever can be added
16:44:54 <ehird`> reason: simplest to start with
16:44:56 <Sgeo> Make an abstraction for interfaces..
16:45:29 * Sgeo wonders if abstractions like that are reusable and if we can use one of those?
16:45:44 <ehird`> Maybe, but I'll probably just use a python plugin system/write my own
16:45:51 <ehird`> http://termie.pbwiki.com/SprinklesPy looks interesting
16:46:48 <ehird`> Maybe I should start without a plugin system, then put one in once it's semi-functional
16:47:33 <Sgeo> Unless you make it so there's a very basic basic core and most stuff is just plugins..
16:47:44 <Sgeo> core == plugin stuff
16:47:53 <Sgeo> Erm, you mean with scripting?
16:47:56 <ehird`> well the core would also include irc stuff too
16:48:00 <ehird`> and i mean, just period
16:48:34 <Sgeo> Circe has scripting. I just added hooks in from commands and irc events, and import a module that has functions with names in a certain format
16:48:53 <ehird`> i'll start without plugins then
16:49:11 <ehird`> ok, name time. dirce to continue the greek+irc-in-name theme? dunno, doesn't sound very good :P
16:49:37 <Sgeo> Dirce, spiritual successor to Circe?
16:50:29 <Sgeo> If the client does version checks, PLEASE make sure that it won't die if it can't contact the version server
16:50:45 * Sgeo needed to patch a file to get Circe to work because of that..
16:51:10 <ehird`> version checks are probably a bad idea anyway :)
16:51:25 <ehird`> "Version check: [ server url ]"
16:51:34 <Sgeo> esp. if the project dies and some nutcase such as myself feels like using it..
16:51:45 <ehird`> So if someone branched it off or made a new maintainer, people can update to the new version without uninstalling etc
16:51:58 <ehird`> One thing I want to avoid in this
16:52:06 <ehird`> Threads are really unpythonic and often real hacks
16:52:34 <Sgeo> Question: Do we REALLY need another IRC client floating around?
16:53:05 * Sgeo should work on PSOX
16:53:12 <Sgeo> Should I put PSOX on Berlios?
16:53:20 <ehird`> have you ever used the mercurial version control system?
16:53:29 <Sgeo> Never heard of it, what is it?
16:53:40 <ehird`> They're version control systems, but they're centralized
16:53:46 <ehird`> there's one server that has all the revisions on
16:53:53 <ehird`> With distributed systems -- like mercurial, git and darcs,
16:54:02 <ehird`> each checkout is a full copy of the repository
16:54:14 <ehird`> and there doesn't NEED to be a central server - you can "pull" and "push" to any repository you want
16:54:20 <ehird`> It's very fast and very nice
16:54:28 <ehird`> http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/
16:54:41 <ehird`> It's quite popular too
16:54:56 <ehird`> Mozilla is going to use it, for one
16:55:42 <Sgeo> So if I make a change, how do I make sure others receive the change?
16:55:59 <ehird`> Well, you check in the change like normal. But there's several options for other people seeing it..
16:56:12 <ehird`> 1. Put it online, tell the other person, they will "hg pull" your changes
16:56:24 <ehird`> 2. If there's a central repository, "hg push" to it
16:56:50 <ehird`> If you want to put it online simply, you can use "hg serve" and it starts up an http server for others to pull from
16:57:23 <Sgeo> Is there a free online provider for murcurial central repositories?
16:57:31 <ehird`> no, there's no need for a central repository
16:57:48 <ehird`> also see my message above: If you want to put it online simply, you can use "hg serve" and it starts up an http server for others to pull from
16:57:57 <ehird`> Also, it's very cool as far as branching goes
16:58:01 <ehird`> A branch is just another copy of the repository.
16:58:01 <Sgeo> Yes, but I can't leave my computer running all the time
16:58:13 <ehird`> Like really, really great
16:58:19 <Sgeo> And why not darcs?
16:58:20 <ehird`> It can merge most things automatically
16:58:25 <ehird`> And darcs is kinda slow
16:58:32 <ehird`> darcs also has the same issues
16:58:51 <ehird`> but if you really want it we can use darcs i guess :P
16:59:05 <Sgeo> No, mercurial is ok, I just want a central repo
16:59:24 * Sgeo also wants something for PSOX
16:59:38 <ehird`> I can set up a psox mercurial repo if you want
16:59:46 <Sgeo> Although I guess I could just set one up here, and then later put it online
16:59:55 <ehird`> And yeah that's probably best
17:00:07 <ehird`> "hg init" -> new project in current dir
17:00:16 <ehird`> Anyway, while I set up a repository, you should read http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/Tutorial
17:00:25 <ehird`> it walks you through installing, using, etc mercurial
17:00:40 <ehird`> Sgeo: So the irc client is called Dirce, right? #dirce then
17:01:10 <Sgeo> Can't I just use a GUI for Mercurial?
17:04:46 <Sgeo> Is `hg view` easy to use?
17:06:51 <Sgeo> Well, I need to do an `hg init` first apparently
17:07:47 <Sgeo> Ok, hg view is officially UGLY
17:08:06 <Sgeo> Want a screenshot?
17:08:09 <ehird`> and boo hoo, most people can use vcs' from the command line :|
17:09:53 <ehird`> Sgeo: i'll have a screenshot
17:15:58 <Sgeo> http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/3198/hgkcm3.png
17:16:53 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
17:24:33 <ehird`> ok, Sgeo, that's because it's Tk
17:24:48 <Sgeo> Also doesn't look that easy to use
17:24:55 <ehird`> i'm sure you can figure it out
17:24:56 <Sgeo> Certainly not as easy as RapidSVN
17:25:00 <ehird`> the command-line interface is simple
17:25:28 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:25:33 <ehird`> "hg add/rm ..." to add or remove files, "hg ci" to commit (or "hg ci ..." to commit only some files)
17:25:55 <ehird`> also useful are "hg log" to see what's going on recently, "hg push/pull SERVER" for obvious reasons
17:26:02 <ehird`> and "hg mv file1 file2" to move a file
17:26:11 <Sgeo> ehird`, the GUI doesn't seem useful for what I want to use it for (everything)
17:26:14 <ehird`> "hg ci" even opens $EDITOR
17:26:23 <ehird`> ok, so use the command-line version
17:26:36 * Sgeo doesn't like command-line stuff
17:26:45 <ehird`> then why do you use linux
17:27:05 <ehird`> (and why are you making PSOX, which is arguably very command-line focused)
17:27:33 <ehird`> seriously, it's trivial
17:28:03 <ehird`> it'll take 2 minutes to learn
17:28:10 <ehird`> Try http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/Tutorial
17:32:38 <Sgeo> Do I actually need to do the tutorial myself? meh
17:32:54 <ehird`> Well yeah if you want to learn mercurial :P
17:33:39 <Sgeo> Can't I just read it?
17:35:49 <Sgeo> When I do `hg export`, where is the base of the change?
17:36:03 <ehird`> Would you translate that into english
17:37:10 <Sgeo> When I do `hg export`, it results in a diff, right?
17:37:21 <Sgeo> So what is it diffing? tip and what?
17:37:27 <ehird`> Perhaps, I have never used it.
17:37:36 <ehird`> you can specify a range
17:41:34 -!- jix has joined.
17:44:43 * Sgeo still wants a pretty Mercurial GUI
17:44:43 <jix> dbc: got my 104 byte hello world?
17:46:20 * Sgeo is going to start implementing PSOX before the specs are complete :/
17:55:17 -!- RedDak has joined.
17:56:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:01:23 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:02:37 -!- ehird` has joined.
18:13:08 * Sgeo is tempted to just make an SVN repo on his comp
18:13:28 <ehird`> oh, i'll give you access to the repo
18:13:33 <ehird`> what account name do you want
18:14:35 <ehird`> Sgeo: in lowercase i assume for unixy :P
18:14:43 <ehird`> uh, i'll give you a temp password...
18:33:26 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:33:36 -!- jix has joined.
18:44:45 <bsmntbombdood> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Swindon_Magic_Roundabout_eng.png
18:49:08 <GregorR> I went through that roundabout!
18:50:25 <GregorR> Of course, figuring out roundabouts AT ALL was still pretty tough :P
19:01:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:01:03 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:03:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:08:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:09:18 -!- Tritonio has joined.
19:28:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:34:15 <oklopol> ROUNDABOUTS REDUCE RISK OF COLLISION
19:35:09 <GregorR> Uncontrolled x-way intersections?
19:35:32 <oklopol> there was a reason for my caps
19:56:57 -!- RedDak has joined.
19:58:56 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:14:23 <ehird`> yay, dirce development will begin soon!
20:38:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
21:12:10 <dbc> jix: Yeah, I saw that 104-byte Hello World. Excellent. I assume that's a result of search, so no better can be done with that basic approach?
21:18:11 <jix> not exhaustive search
21:18:17 <jix> so there might be a better version
21:19:08 <ehird`> GregorR: an IRC client, written in python, with accompanying irc lib lycus
21:19:21 <ehird`> GregorR: "spiritual successor" to circe, another python irc client
21:20:13 <ehird`> dirce will be ui-neutral, with main development going on a wxPython module, and lycus will also eventually be abstracted out to be protocol neutral - so e.g. irc bots written with it can work on jabber, aim, ...
21:21:01 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectNet?
21:21:11 <ehird`> your login screen is fugly fyi
21:21:34 <ehird`> hint - don't make it black
21:22:15 <ehird`> GregorR: dirce is going to be really good, probably :P
21:22:23 <ehird`> minimal, extensible, fast, etc., buzzwords
21:23:32 <GregorR> Will it revolutionize outside-the-box thought pattern dynamics while diversifying synergy potential?
21:23:47 <jix> i still want an irc client which runs on my server but with the gui locally
21:23:57 <ehird`> jix: Wow, I had that idea too o.O
21:24:04 <ehird`> jix: I think that could be done in dirce, actually
21:24:08 <GregorR> So, irssi BNC mode + xchat? :P
21:24:13 <jix> but i hate wx*
21:24:20 <ehird`> jix: gui modules are pluggable
21:24:20 <jix> GregorR: nope
21:24:22 <ihope> I don't see anything wrong with that roundabout!
21:24:24 <ehird`> jix: you could use ncurses if you wanted
21:24:39 <jix> i want a GUI
21:24:41 <ehird`> jix: ok, what would you like
21:24:54 <ehird`> jix: i use os x too! :P
21:25:00 <ehird`> jix: [not now though, stuck on windows atm]
21:25:06 <ehird`> jix: anyway that would be possible
21:25:06 <jix> oh and it should be scriptable using ruby
21:25:13 <ehird`> jix: bah, sorry, it's python
21:25:27 <jix> there is a python ruby bridge i think ^^
21:25:28 <GregorR> It should be scriptable in Rupy
21:25:42 <ehird`> you could write a script that just calls out to ruby and calls back for a Dirce module or whatever, though
21:25:44 <ihope> Is that some Ruby-Python hybrid?
21:25:56 <jix> GregorR: with x-chat + irssi i don't have a backlog that just works
21:25:56 <ehird`> also, a cocoa gui module will probably exist sometime - even more so if you write it ;)
21:26:00 <ehird`> And the client-server thing,
21:26:09 <ehird`> I had that idea a while back too and it could be probably implemented easily
21:26:26 <jix> but it will be tricky to get a good scrollbar for the backlog
21:26:26 <ehird`> you'd just have to subclass lots of lycus stuff in a script and tell dirce to use it
21:26:45 <ehird`> jix: i think for it i will copout: just get a batch of all messages past $DISCONNECT_TIME
21:26:58 <ehird`> it's not like it'll be megabytes or whatever
21:27:13 <jix> no i want all my logs from wherever i'm connecting
21:27:22 <jix> the whole client including all scripts running on the server
21:27:31 <ehird`> well you could do that
21:27:39 <jix> and when i scroll up locally to some stuff that isn't loaded locally it will request it on the fly
21:27:41 <ehird`> write a gui for dirce that actually runs a server
21:27:51 <ehird`> if you wanted all that fancy stuff
21:28:16 <jix> but i think i'll just continue to use x-chat aqua ^^
21:28:37 <jix> even tho the missing tab reorder feature is a pain in the ass.... you get used to such stuff
21:28:53 <ehird`> gaim is getting irc support in 1.2
21:29:38 <jix> i don't like the way most IMs handle irc
21:29:46 <jix> i even use bitlbee for jabber MUCs
21:29:59 <ehird`> you should try dirce some time at least ;)
21:30:12 <jix> i use Adium for the other IM stuff because i like it for that
21:30:33 <jix> but when it comes to handling chats with multiple users where you are idling most of the time IMs just suck
21:30:33 <Sgeo> ehird`, Dirce doesn't exist in usable form yet.. or anywhere but our imaginations even
21:30:45 <ehird`> Sgeo: of course, but it will soon
21:31:07 <Sgeo> In the meantime, Circe exists >.>
21:31:15 <jix> i might write my own irc client some day...
21:31:18 <ehird`> circe is uh, kind of minimal :P
21:31:24 <GregorR> Yeah, normal IM client + IRC channels = blech
21:31:33 <jix> ehird`: i don't write python code
21:31:40 <GregorR> I see people with Gaim in their quit message and think "...really?"
21:31:52 <jix> i'd use c++ or ruby
21:32:17 <jix> but i don't like any of rubys gui bindings
21:32:29 <jix> and the only gui toolkit i like is GPL/Comercial which sucks
21:32:43 <ehird`> GregorR: i use pidgin atm because im stuck on windows =(
21:32:52 <jix> ehird`: yeah
21:32:57 <ehird`> jix: maybe you should try out Shoes :P
21:33:08 <ehird`> Sgeo: _why's gui toolkit-thing
21:33:23 <jix> ehird`: sorry but that's not a usable gui toolkit
21:33:28 <jix> (at least the last time i looked at it)
21:33:33 <Sgeo> Dirce will support it?
21:33:40 <ehird`> Sgeo: no, it's for ruby
21:33:50 * jix wants a qt license
21:34:03 <ehird`> also, dirce will be MIT licensed
21:34:04 <Sgeo> jix, you can use it in GPL projects..
21:34:15 <ehird`> Sgeo: obviously jix is sane and dislikes GPL
21:34:16 <jix> Sgeo: i'm not going to release a single line of code under GPL
21:34:24 <ehird`> and MIT is "teh best licens evUr!111"
21:34:37 <ehird`> Sgeo: it's three paragraphs, go read it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License
21:34:52 <Sgeo> Can we use Circe code, or will we refuse to recognize the bad PD?
21:35:04 <ehird`> probably refuse, plus there's not that much to circe anyway
21:35:25 <Sgeo> The scripting?
21:35:40 <ehird`> we'll think about it when we come to it
21:35:45 <Sgeo> Well, the scripting framework would need to be implemented differently though..
21:35:51 <jix> doing an own strange license with stupid stuff in it is fun too
21:36:19 <Sgeo> ehird`, did you look at the Scripting API of Circe?
21:36:35 <Sgeo> You know, it used to require knowledge of Circe internals..
21:36:35 <ehird`> but anyway, @#dirce about the root class
21:36:41 <Sgeo> Then I came up with Sapi
21:36:42 <jix> http://dumb.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=licences is great
21:37:23 <ehird`> 4. If you are using the Program in someone else's bedroom on any Monday at 3:05 pm, you are not allowed to modify the Program for ten minutes. [This clause provided by Inphernic; every licence should contain at least one clause, the reasoning behind which is far from obvious.]
21:37:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:37:52 <jix> i thought about releasing two libs... one only allows usage at monday the other one only at thuesday
21:37:55 <jix> but they depend on each other
21:38:08 <jix> and i got that dayname worng i guess
21:41:19 <jix> well i'm going to bed now
21:41:34 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:47:48 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:03:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:14:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:33:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
22:36:29 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebub.
22:55:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:22:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
23:33:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:40:46 -!- sebub has quit ("@+").
23:46:26 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:10:54 -!- ihope has joined.
00:30:59 -!- Tritonio has joined.
00:35:47 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:39:24 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:40:18 -!- tokigun has joined.
00:42:52 -!- Guilt has joined.
00:43:07 <Guilt> hi. i uploaded a newer compiler here: http://guilt.bafsoft.net/downloads/wip/Brainfuck/
00:43:39 <Guilt> it converts to x86 asm. right now does jump optimizations.. will eventually work out balanced loop optimization once i have an intermediete representation
00:44:01 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:44:10 <Guilt> i would like feedback and bug reports, if any.
00:52:34 * GregorR uses "'" as a greeting from now on.
00:53:19 <GregorR> O'bsmntbombdood -> Oh, hello bsmntbombdood!
00:53:23 -!- Slereah has joined.
00:53:40 <oerjan> didn't know he was irish...
00:54:59 <GregorR> Just like John Van Von O'McFitzsonovichstein
00:58:27 <GregorR> Is there a first name that means "my son"? :P
00:59:09 * GregorR stabs bsmntbombdood in the facehole.
01:01:37 <oerjan> you're pretty good at photoshopping it away, then
01:01:38 <GregorR> I'm not making fun of it ... just stabbing it.
01:02:05 <Guilt> are there any easy to understand books on automata?
01:02:17 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
01:02:29 <Guilt> without too much math in it? like a quintuplet of sorts? :)
01:02:58 <Guilt> i know it's like asking for food without calories.. but a low-cal diet would be great! :)
01:04:29 <ihope> "Mijo" means "my son"! It's just not a name.
01:04:35 <ihope> As far as I know, at least.
01:05:04 <ihope> Guilt: automata, you say? Like cellular automata and Turing machines and Minsky machines and Langton's ant?
01:05:41 <ihope> But math IS that stuff! :-)
01:06:08 <Guilt> ooh :| is there a good math tutorial at least? :)
01:06:22 <Guilt> i lost interest in math after 1st year of univ.
01:06:23 <GregorR> "is there a good math tutorial" :P
01:06:27 <Guilt> and it's been years since
01:06:37 <Guilt> well. i fear math now. totally.
01:06:40 <ihope> Eh, there are lots of things that can follow "math is".
01:07:00 <ihope> Well, what are you after? A list of automata?
01:07:02 * oerjan wonders if MCC over at GoodMath did automata
01:07:36 <Guilt> understanding that stuff.
01:07:56 <pikhq> oerjan: I suspect he has.
01:07:59 <ihope> Is there any certain automaton you don't understand?
01:08:38 <pikhq> Guilt: What a shame.
01:08:43 <Guilt> ihope: turing machines, for starters.
01:08:54 * pikhq is in high school, and loves math.
01:08:55 <Guilt> and yes, a shame :(
01:09:01 <oerjan> i am _sure_ MCC did turing machines
01:09:07 <Guilt> pikhq, i loved calculus in school
01:09:34 <Guilt> then they taught something on differential equations and those generating long polynomials
01:09:47 <ihope> Guilt: maybe an animation of a Turing machine would help?
01:09:48 <Guilt> and holes and stuff in complex numbers, and all that high school math went deep into the drain
01:10:30 <ihope> Now I just have to find one, I guess.
01:10:35 <Guilt> eventually, i hope to learn enough math to follow TAOCP. a lifetime goal. lol
01:10:37 <oerjan> i haven't been there in a while, but there were always people saying things like "i tried to learn this before, but i never understood it before you explained it"
01:10:54 <Guilt> yeah. understanding is the key to these things.
01:11:09 <pikhq> Holes in functions & complex numbers are difficult?
01:11:28 <GregorR> It's so much easier just to be a genius, eh pikhq?
01:11:32 <Guilt> there's a whole lot of things behind that now which i don't remember.
01:11:47 <pikhq> GregorR: Of course it is.
01:11:48 <ihope> Yeah, being a genius is nice. You should try it sometime. :-P
01:11:58 <Guilt> yeah. and if you're a genius, that's great. i admit i'm not one. but i intend to eventually become not so dumb.
01:12:05 <pikhq> (as a genius, I'm well aware of that. :p)
01:12:11 <GregorR> Now, to go kill myself over my upcoming crypto assignment argh Gregor hate argh argh
01:12:34 <Guilt> i think of crypto as a blackbox. something goes in and something else comes out. :) that has it's advantages
01:12:45 <Guilt> i could figure out the math somewhat in RSA and DH though.
01:12:47 <GregorR> Yes. Yes it does. I used to live in that happy universe *sobs*
01:13:04 <Guilt> should this channel be #math? :)
01:13:23 <ihope> #math has people like TRWBW. Not that that's a bad thing?
01:13:49 <ihope> <TRWBW> uman: you asked a question, i gave you valid information, either thank me or just shut up. anyways, go with god
01:14:39 <ihope> Perhaps I should make a Turing machine animation.
01:14:49 <ihope> It's not hard to make a bad one! :-P
01:15:27 <GregorR> One of those programs that is way more helpful than it ought to be :P
01:15:30 <oerjan> http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/02/basics_the_turing_machine_with_1.php#more
01:15:42 <ihope> Oh, that looks useful.
01:19:14 <oerjan> (note in my browser at least that has a formatting error so the actual article is below all the menus)
01:20:55 <Guilt> one more question: why haskell? :)
01:21:11 <Guilt> is learning it fundamental to researching stuff like this?
01:21:11 <pikhq> It wouldn't *be* Oerjan without Haskell. :p
01:21:30 <pikhq> Oh. MCC did some Haskell there?
01:22:25 <pikhq> I suspect Haskell is for the more mathematically inclined. :p
01:22:37 <oerjan> he also started a haskell tutorial
01:23:23 <oerjan> the fact that MCC used haskell is probably not my fault though
01:23:40 <oerjan> we discovered it independently, afaik
01:23:43 <pikhq> I still blame you.
01:23:51 <pikhq> Wait. . . Do you *know* MCC?
01:24:03 <oerjan> no, but i followed the blog for a while
01:24:38 <oerjan> the probably was an understatement
01:24:51 <Guilt> i realize what a mathematical world this is.
01:25:17 <oerjan> also, i started reading it because of his weekly esolang, not is haskell
01:25:47 <oerjan> in fact someone here pointed me to it
01:25:57 <Guilt> is haskell an esolang?
01:26:05 <Guilt> looks decent to me. like lisp or somethin
01:26:11 <oerjan> usually not considered as such :)
01:26:32 <oerjan> but it is quite different from most programming languages
01:28:02 <bsmntbombdood> a forum like slashdot, except all posting done by mail
01:29:37 <bsmntbombdood> either no one would participate, or only people who really had something decent to say would participate
01:30:02 -!- ihope_ has joined.
01:31:37 <Guilt> ooh. zip in python looks like borrowed from haskell
01:31:49 <Guilt> stupid languages.. all similiar looking
01:32:18 <Guilt> i'm going to get mad one day.. looking at x numbers of languages
01:32:47 <oerjan> although both zip and comprehensions are probably older than both
01:33:03 <oerjan> well, comprehensions really come from math
01:33:11 <Guilt> omg. haskell has a posix api with networking?
01:33:17 <pikhq> As do functions. Your point?
01:33:20 <Guilt> i hope nobody's doing SOA with it.
01:33:36 <oerjan> sure. the number of libraries have really started to take off lately
01:34:20 <Guilt> thank god brainfuck doesn't say something about tcp or file streams
01:34:30 <Guilt> :) although it could act as a http client with nc. heh
01:34:35 <pikhq> It would if we worked on PSOX.
01:34:44 -!- k1w2u3 has joined.
01:35:06 <oerjan> there's happs, for building web services with haskell
01:35:21 <pikhq> PSOX is a suggested API via I/O to allow esoteric languages access to things like files, TCP streams, etc.
01:36:51 <pikhq> (yes, we are insane; thank you for noticing)
01:38:05 * oerjan goes to find that quote again
01:38:12 <Guilt> can PSOX work with a normal brainfuck interp?
01:38:20 <Guilt> as of now, any existing implementations?
01:38:59 <Guilt> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-new-cat.b ?
01:39:09 <pikhq> That would be an *example* of PSOX.
01:39:18 <pikhq> Sgeo has no implementation finished.
01:39:21 <oerjan> "We're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know that I am mad?" asked Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
01:39:23 <pikhq> Or, indeed, a finished spec.
01:39:37 <Guilt> heh. through the looking glass?
01:40:22 <oerjan> i think alice in wonderland, but not sure
01:43:03 -!- Guilt has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:48:52 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
01:54:03 <pikhq> http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/11/musical_goofiness_with_a_mathy.php
02:15:42 -!- k1w2u3 has left (?).
02:33:41 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal").
02:54:40 <bsmntbombdood> like slashdot, with news articles to start discussion (less time-sensitive and longer lived than slashdot's though), with a postal adress to send comments to, where someone does very light moderation (removing spam and the "AI()(#J KDKSD"s), scans, threadifies, and posts the mail
02:55:58 <oerjan> this reminds me of a very old-fangled concept which i'm sure you young whipper-snappers haven't heard about, called a magazine.
02:56:34 <bsmntbombdood> magazines don't post enough mails for decent discussion, and monthly is waaay too long
02:58:06 <oerjan> you might be interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then
04:10:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:16:06 -!- sekhmet has joined.
04:17:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:21:49 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:31:36 -!- sekhmet has joined.
04:37:39 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:39:12 -!- Slereah- has joined.
04:40:22 -!- zuzu has joined.
04:41:47 -!- zuzu has quit (Success).
04:51:39 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:54:24 -!- pikhq has joined.
04:54:30 -!- zuzu has joined.
04:55:42 -!- sekhmet has joined.
04:55:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)).
04:55:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:55:46 -!- sekhmet has joined.
05:11:43 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
05:18:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:24:52 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:31:16 -!- Slereah has joined.
05:31:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
05:33:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:05:46 -!- immibis has joined.
06:07:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
07:01:48 <immibis> http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/
07:42:13 -!- oklopol has joined.
07:43:08 <oklopol> last night... was playing with my magnets as usual... dropped one on the computer, perhaps a sensitive area or something, screen went black
07:43:37 <oklopol> the weird thing is, i could just recover that from a button on my comp that switches screen on/off
07:43:49 <oklopol> but the mouse ain't working
07:44:17 <oklopol> i *could* try taking the battery off and letting it be fully dead for a while
07:44:31 <oklopol> good idea if that's what you meant
07:45:18 <immibis> is there a button above the touchpad
07:45:19 <oklopol> and it's the touchpad that's not working
07:45:26 <oklopol> maybe i should've cleared that up
07:45:54 <oklopol> this is a 2.5-year-old laptop, even i'm not that stupid ;)
07:46:42 * immibis notices that oklopol replied to a /notice by writing in a channel
07:47:03 <oklopol> yes, conclusion: i see notices on the channel i'm currently in
07:47:06 <fizzie> Ooh; the RFC frowns on that!
07:47:16 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:47:31 <fizzie> "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies must never be sent in response to a NOTICE message."
07:47:49 <fizzie> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/chapter4.html#c4_4_2 and so on.
07:47:50 <immibis> fizzie: i think automatic is an important word there
07:48:00 <fizzie> Well, that looked pretty automatic to me!
07:48:44 <immibis> [20:46] --> oklopol - NoNameScript?
07:49:07 <fizzie> Yes, and he automatically replied to it without thinking about it (much).
07:49:31 <oklopol> omg lecture in 12 minutes 6 km away ->
07:49:34 <fizzie> You might get stuck into a loop that way! You'd write replies and replies until your fingers fell off!
07:54:17 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
07:57:07 <immibis> immibis said Oh Hi. Take that, RFC 1459!
07:57:39 <immibis> someone notice me (:P) with the word Hi somewhere in the text
07:57:44 <immibis> immibis said Hi. Take that, RFC 1459!
07:59:09 <immibis> lament said Thou Art Hideous, Wretch!. Take that, RFC 1459!
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:04:10 <fizzie> Actually RFC 2812 makes the statement even stronger, with ALL CAPS: "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies MUST NEVER be sent in response to a NOTICE message."
08:04:47 <immibis> immibis said Hi. Take that, RFC's 1459 and 2812!
08:07:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
08:09:15 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Life without danger is a waste of o).
08:14:58 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:37:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
08:38:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
08:54:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
09:08:20 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:42:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:02:56 -!- Tritonio has joined.
11:51:12 -!- Sgeo has joined.
11:56:02 * Sgeo pokes people to #psox
11:56:09 <Sgeo> SVN repository!
12:22:17 -!- ehird` has joined.
12:25:45 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
12:43:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:52:00 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
13:04:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:20:39 <Sgeo_> http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/ex/example_domain.py
13:31:06 -!- ehird` has left (?).
13:31:45 -!- ehird` has joined.
13:32:42 -!- jix has joined.
13:32:55 <oklopol> i think i actually managed to design a whole new esoteric language concept today!
13:33:24 <oklopol> well, like 1% change of that happening
13:33:52 <oklopol> it's based on constantly improving guesses
13:34:06 <oklopol> functions always return instantly, but keep on trying to produce a better output
13:34:12 <ehird`> that's like a neural net
13:34:21 <ehird`> i'll implement it show me a spec :P
13:34:53 <ehird`> i'll do it in python! :9
13:35:12 <oklopol> with the semantics i have now, it's unbelievable complicated; and it's not unambiguous yet.
13:35:28 <oklopol> for some reason i have to do everything in an original way when designing a language
13:36:06 <oklopol> i don't wanna do it in python... too easy :<
13:36:15 <ehird`> i'll write an interp in C
13:36:20 <ehird`> is that hardcore enough for you?
13:36:30 <ehird`> it will be all in main(), be uncommented, and use at least one hex digit
13:36:42 <ehird`> like most C esolang interpreters
13:36:46 <ehird`> will that satisfy you?
13:36:59 <oklopol> but as i said, i'll first finish the language, then try making it myself, then you can do it. :D
13:37:28 <oklopol> that sounds nice, but also remember to avoid recursion
13:37:40 <ehird`> can't I recurse into main?
13:37:44 <ehird`> that's non-standard and kooky! :D
13:38:00 <oklopol> well, yes, but you shouldn't be dependent on that, just do it for the heck of it
13:38:17 <ehird`> can i do it for my parsing
13:38:23 <oklopol> recurse a few times, then while-loop everything
13:38:48 <oklopol> heh, i'm really not gonna make you a spec, half the fun in designing languages is implementing them :D
13:39:09 <ehird`> you can implement it but give me a spec so i can too
13:39:13 <ehird`> also, implement yours in oklotalk!
13:41:02 <oklopol> heh, i would need to make oklotalk first ;)
13:41:36 <oklopol> actually, one of my greatest problems is i want to use a non garbage collected language, but i don't feel like making good containers in C
13:41:51 <oklopol> and i don't know many other non gc languages
13:41:58 <ehird`> D is pretty easy to learn
13:41:58 <oklopol> well, that has actually crossed my mind
13:42:05 <ehird`> disable python's gc like so:
13:42:08 <oklopol> but i haven't installed D yet, soooo much work xD
13:42:14 <ehird`> whenever you create an object, push it to a global list
13:42:22 <ehird`> when you want to free something
13:42:26 <ehird`> delete it from the list
13:43:10 <oklopol> if i'd just put ints in the list, it'd be a quite accurate translation
14:03:08 -!- AnMaster has joined.
14:03:44 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving.").
14:04:16 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:21:41 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving.").
14:22:09 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:22:32 -!- ehird` has left (?).
14:28:50 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:30:40 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:37:25 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:37:46 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:38:33 -!- k1w2u3 has joined.
14:59:11 -!- k1w2u3 has quit ("Leaving").
15:04:07 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo.
15:07:49 * Sgeo points out that there is now an active #psox channel
16:23:15 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:29:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:29:30 -!- jix has joined.
16:35:33 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:41:34 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p264151235.txt <<< code sample !
17:49:31 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
17:49:31 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
17:49:32 -!- ehird` has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
17:49:32 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
17:49:33 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
17:50:04 -!- EgoBot has joined.
17:50:04 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
17:50:04 -!- ehird` has joined.
17:50:04 -!- helios24 has joined.
17:50:04 -!- fizzie has joined.
18:21:38 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
18:22:54 * Sgeo slumps over from tiredness
18:29:08 <ehird`> that'll hurt in the morning
18:31:22 -!- ihope has joined.
18:47:45 <Sgeo> ihope, #psox ?
18:48:10 <ehird`> gosh stop plugging it Sgeo
19:02:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:09:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:28:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:43:18 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
19:45:04 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:48:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:48:57 -!- ehird` has joined.
22:06:07 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:26:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:51:13 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
22:55:37 -!- Nucleo has joined.
23:01:18 -!- Nucleo has changed nick to Nucleo_.
23:01:24 -!- Nucleo_ has changed nick to Alleria_.
23:44:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
23:55:06 <dbc> Testing factorial program in brainfuck.
23:56:23 <ehird`> bf random.b | bf byte2dec.b | bf factorial.b | bf numwarp.b = oh wow
23:56:50 <dbc> Keymaker beat me to it, in fact he made one quite a while ago. But I still didn't take it off my to-do list, and I was bored today.
23:57:04 <ihope> Reversible Thue would be interesting.
23:57:05 <dbc> Ah. No, this one doesn't take input. That would actually be easier, thinking about it.
23:57:33 <ihope> It just guesses what number you want? :-)
23:57:34 <dbc> Or if not easier, at least maybe shorter.
23:57:39 <dbc> No, it computes all of them.
23:57:47 <ehird`> it can compute infinite numbers in finite time?
23:57:55 <dbc> Or more strictly, it computes any given one.
23:58:02 <dbc> in finite time.
23:58:04 <ehird`> haskell taken to the logical extreme i guess
23:58:12 * ihope computes all of them
23:58:19 <ehird`> ihope: what's the last factorial?
23:58:25 <ihope> ehird`: what's the last integer?
23:58:44 <ehird`> ihope: the .. um .. factorial-root of the last value your program outputted
23:59:00 <dbc> Negation of "it computes all factorials" is "there is a factorial it doesn't compute", right?
23:59:06 <dbc> Which is wrong.
23:59:09 <ihope> Well, it kind of ran faster and faster and then stopped suddenly.
23:59:22 <ehird`> ihope: Running on an infinity machine?
23:59:25 <ihope> Each factorial took half as long to compute as the last one.
23:59:27 <ehird`> That'd be the clockspeed halfing.
23:59:51 <ihope> Oh, I remember. The last factorial is 0.
00:00:15 <ehird`> one quadrillionth-last?
00:01:37 -!- ihope_ has joined.
00:02:12 <ehird`> what's the factorial of pi?
00:02:38 <ehird`> (Decreasing first the last decimal place, then the second last, etc. of course)
00:02:49 <ihope_> About 7.188082728976031.
00:03:16 <ihope_> I'm just hoping that doing that doesn't change the result :-P
00:05:11 <ehird`> Take pi, fully calculated to all digits (yes, i am being sarcastic here ;))
00:05:28 <ehird`> Then, take the last decimal digit of pi (here referred to as -1, second-last being -2 etc)
00:06:18 <ehird`> instead of (n-1), pretend it's (n but with last_decimal_place decreased by one)
00:06:39 <ehird`> of course, when that gets to 0, you go to -2
00:08:38 -!- ihope__ has joined.
00:08:46 <ihope__> n! = n * (n but with last_decimal_place decreased by one)!?
00:09:03 <ihope_> n! = n * (n but with last_decimal_place decreased by one)!?
00:09:03 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Reconnecting").
00:09:15 <ehird`> so, the question is, with that definition, what is pi!
00:09:29 <ehird`> (pi!) of course, not pi exclamation :P
00:09:34 <ihope__> With that definition, I'd say that pi! = 0.
00:10:03 <ehird`> pi! = pi * (pi - tiny)!
00:10:31 <ihope__> pi! = pi * pi!, 1 = pi or pi! = 0.
00:10:49 <ehird`> it's just 314!, except the decimal place is retained
00:10:58 <ehird`> instead of 314 * 313 * 312 * ...
00:11:04 <ehird`> it's 3.14 * 3.13 * 3.12...
00:11:15 <ehird`> except, of course, with the "full" pi ;)
00:11:45 <ihope__> Well, first, it's 314! / 10^314, about.
00:12:04 <ihope__> The limit as 314 approaches infinity of that is infinity.
00:12:15 <ehird`> Well, using just 3.14 * 3.13 * ... * 3 * 2 * 1,
00:12:51 <ehird`> 3.14 * 3.13 * 3.12 * 3.11 * 3.1 * 3 * 2 * 1
00:13:13 <ehird`> since, of course, 3.1 (it would come to 310 with 314!) is 3.10
00:13:23 <ihope__> So it's some big product. :-)
00:14:13 <ehird`> Of course it wildly changes with only two more digits of precision
00:14:22 <ehird`> 1704185.70729987 is the result with 3.1415
00:38:14 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:02:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit.
01:03:11 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
01:04:02 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.).
01:04:05 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope.
01:04:36 -!- ihope_ has joined.
01:04:50 -!- pikhq has joined.
01:36:28 -!- ihope__ has joined.
01:47:14 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:04:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:09:46 -!- pikhq has joined.
02:14:37 <dbc> Okay, I let it run and now it has calculated up to 1285!.
02:15:14 <dbc> Make that 1288!.
02:43:57 -!- immibis has joined.
02:44:32 <immibis> does anyone know of a *free* program that reads rss feeds and sends new messages to a specified mailbox via smtp?
02:50:20 <immibis> greasemonkey: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748
02:50:34 * immibis slaps himself on the head, realising greasemonkey isn't here right now
02:51:33 <ihope__> If you're not past 4000! yet, dbc, you need to fix your interpreter. :-P
02:54:35 <dbc> Ordinarily I would be using a compiler if I were in a real hurry.
02:55:14 <dbc> Did anyone do anything with your busy beaver task?
02:55:26 * immibis wonders what ihope__ and dbc are talking about
02:55:46 * immibis sees that you are running a BF factorial program.
02:56:23 * immibis wonders if the program uses this simple algorithm:
02:56:52 <ihope__> Stop making me look stupid, immibis.
02:58:18 <immibis> http://pastebin.ca/764341 this algorithm
02:59:09 <ihope__> iterate (\(x,y) -> (x+1,y*(x+1))) (0,1)
02:59:18 <dbc> Not exactly.
03:04:23 -!- ihope has quit ("Lost terminal").
03:09:21 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope.
03:29:22 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:30:30 -!- oklopol has joined.
03:37:04 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:57:53 -!- oklopl has joined.
03:58:48 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:59:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:04:01 -!- pikhq has joined.
04:13:59 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Say What?").
05:33:48 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:39:41 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:41:57 -!- oklopol has joined.
06:23:49 <oklopol> (04:55:00) immibis reads the irc log
06:23:50 <oklopol> (04:55:11) immibis sees that you are running a BF factorial program.
06:24:09 <oklopol> took me like 6 minutes to read it
06:42:47 -!- faxathisia has joined.
06:43:40 <faxathisia> woah, the ais523 guy used to hang here?
07:23:56 <GregorR> I don't know that he's /stopped/, but presumably he has a bit more of a life now :P
07:25:11 <lament> spending all that money :)
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:19:17 <faxathisia> I think It's possible to have an ambiguous lexer constrained by a parser if the whole thing is written like a logic program
08:19:44 <faxathisia> and using logic programming technique, hopefully any parser could also be an unparser
08:21:39 * faxathisia wonders if anyone knows of some different types of parser
08:54:12 -!- Slereah has joined.
09:00:44 -!- faxathisia has quit.
09:07:19 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:30:50 -!- faxathisia has joined.
11:12:27 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
13:48:42 -!- jix has joined.
14:59:05 -!- SimonRC has joined.
15:03:45 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:05:28 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:06:34 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:06:39 -!- SimonRC has joined.
15:37:39 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:38:16 -!- Tritonio has joined.
16:27:47 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
16:29:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:29:30 -!- jix has joined.
16:35:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:44:55 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:45:01 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:45:13 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
17:55:17 <ehird`> hi jix, Tritonio_, etc
17:57:24 -!- cherez has joined.
18:09:01 -!- Slereah- has joined.
18:13:09 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:14:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:25:21 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:28:31 <Sgeo> Anyone here interested in PSOX?
19:09:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:27:54 <dbc> I just had to solder together a power cable for my printer. Because I let the end with the plug dangle out of a car and it ended up severed. (I was tired.)
19:28:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:30:03 <dbc> The good thing is, now my printer will have a twelve-foot power cable :/
19:41:56 <Sgeo> GregorR, #psox
19:42:51 <ehird`> I just installed a new one
19:42:57 <ehird`> you've said #psox enough
19:43:11 * Sgeo has been doing that too >.>
19:54:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:14:46 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
20:38:18 -!- Meep-Eep has joined.
20:41:05 -!- Meep-Eep has left (?).
20:43:52 -!- Treora has joined.
20:46:47 -!- Treora has left (?).
20:50:10 <Sgeo> http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox.txt
20:50:55 <Sgeo> PSOX is a layer that goes between stdin/stdout and an esolang that can only do stdin/stdout. It will provide things such as file manipulation and HTTP stuff to languages like Brainfuck
20:51:19 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:58:16 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
20:58:34 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:01:29 <Slereah-> Substract "awesome" to the statement.
21:01:41 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood is generating random text programmatically
21:02:07 <ehird`> you won't be able to get a good match like that again
21:08:57 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: foodlesnap
21:11:11 <ehird`> s/bsmntbombdood/ehird`
21:11:14 <ehird`> "battle of the regexps"
21:11:32 <GregorR> You both really like bonobos, in a creepy way, apparently.
21:11:44 <Sgeo> ehird`, you like regexes in IRC, but not PSOX? meh
21:12:23 <ehird`> irc is human-evaluated
21:12:40 <ehird`> "bonobos are fucking ehird`"
21:13:05 <ehird`> s/fucking/not at all like/
21:13:31 <GregorR> ehird`: Then you're clearly an alien.
21:13:42 <ehird`> Maybe i'm a fundamentalist Christian! :P
21:13:52 <Sgeo> What's a bonobo?
21:14:05 <ehird`> Sgeo, meanwhile, is learning about esolangs while forgetting about primates
21:14:45 <GregorR> ehird`: I presume that you're not, because if you were you'd be an idiot, and I don't like to make such assumptions about people :P
21:15:16 <ehird`> (Meanwhile, all 4 fundamentalist Christians on freenode are trying to get you k-lined)
21:15:33 <Sgeo> there are fundy Christians on FN?
21:15:41 <GregorR> I'm sure there are, somewhere.
21:15:58 <ehird`> GregorR: http://www.christianasp.net/
21:16:04 <dbc> Fundamentalists are the coolest monkey?
21:16:09 <GregorR> I'm going to assume that's NSFW
21:16:17 <GregorR> dbc: No, intelligent humans are ^^
21:16:49 <GregorR> I'm soooo shocked that it's ASP.NET :P
21:16:57 <GregorR> Two great things that taste great together!
21:16:58 <Sgeo> ...Christian ASP?
21:17:06 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:17:13 <ehird`> Hosting and ASP programming for churches!
21:17:16 <dbc> "What's that?" "That's the badge of my order." "What's your order?" "Primates. Why, what's yours?"
21:17:53 <ehird`> I wonder if they prey when the servers go down
21:18:00 <ehird`> Dear Lord, please this day give us our daily SSH
21:18:03 <GregorR> I doubt it, but they probably pray.
21:18:12 <GregorR> They may go a'huntin', too.
21:19:12 <GregorR> I'm thinking Microsoft ASP.NET Website Manager 2009
21:19:40 <ehird`> in #esoteric we are united by two things: hate of ASP and hate of most christians
21:20:04 <ehird`> (most christians ARE pretty fundamentalist)
21:20:17 <GregorR> I don't know if that's true.
21:20:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:20:28 <GregorR> I just have a general disdain for religion, with a specific hate for fundies :)
21:22:45 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:28:09 <oklopol> faxathisia: i know lots of parsers
21:28:50 <faxathisia> I am probably going to try writing a simple one soon
21:29:49 <faxathisia> oklopol: what parsers do you know which aren't like yacc or parsec?
21:32:33 <oklopol> faxathisia: well i just started making a recal-parser, and i made my tode-parser some time ago...
21:33:10 <faxathisia> I find it hard to differentiate between parser and (parser generator or language in which it's easy to write parsers)
21:33:11 <oklopol> i think everyone here has made a parser
21:33:18 <oklopol> but not many have made a generic one..
21:33:57 <Sgeo> Have I made a parser? I don't _think_ so
21:34:12 * Sgeo is no good with stringy stuff
21:35:02 <oklopol> perhaps individuals occasionally
21:35:09 <oklopol> (ehird`) in #esoteric we are united by two things: hate of ASP and hate of most christians
21:35:37 * Sgeo doesn't hate ASP
21:35:48 <Sgeo> I've never used it, and don't know it, so how can I have it?
21:35:54 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: a few ounces of semen a day keeps the ulcers away
21:36:02 <oklopol> 2 bottles of ED and 4 coffees today
21:36:09 <oklopol> i like coffee a bit more than my body
21:36:10 <Sgeo> Nor do I hate Christians.. Christianity I disagree with, but I don't dislike Christians..
21:36:17 <GregorR> 2 bottles of erectile dysfunction?
21:36:30 <oklopol> ed is a finnish energy drink
21:36:46 <oklopol> i've told that 3 times on this channel, don't you read my random ramblings from the logs?!?!?
21:37:08 <GregorR> 2 bottles of erectile dysfunction?
21:37:35 <oklopol> i guess you stuff your penis in a bottle or something
21:38:02 <oklopol> first mash it with a hammer or something, and it surely won't erect
21:40:58 -!- ihope has joined.
21:41:11 <Sgeo> Nor do I hate Christians.. Christianity I disagree with, but I don't dislike Christians..
21:41:18 <Sgeo> I mean, hi ihope
21:41:36 <ihope> I'm going to flip a googol of coins!
21:41:40 <oklopol> kay, if i said "i'm fucking tired", would you say i should "go to sleep", "code tic-tac-toe" or be witty and tell me to "just let her sleep and learn grammar"?
21:42:14 <oklopol> i had to add the last one, because anything with fuck will be tinkered with anyway
21:43:46 <ehird`> Sgeo: most christians in my experience mention it often
21:43:49 <ihope> How curious. The first 5 * 10^99 coins were all heads.
21:43:51 <ehird`> Sgeo: purposefully to inflame you
21:44:17 <Sgeo> or to just tease me a bit, maybe?
21:44:27 * Sgeo is thinking of one person in particular
21:44:51 <GregorR> SUPER DANCE EXPLOSION TIME
21:44:54 <ehird`> either way they're going to hell for not respecting the lord's word ;)
21:46:09 <GregorR> The roof isn't a very good musician though.
21:46:15 <GregorR> HAW HAW L'PUNS ARE L'UNFUNNAY
21:47:04 <ihope> Hmm. Anybody know what 7.5*10^99 choose 5*10^99 is?
21:47:30 -!- k1w2u3 has joined.
21:47:44 <oklopol> somewhere around 100 i think
21:48:55 <GregorR> I suspect it's a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit higher than that.
21:49:28 <ehird`> oklopol: it's ... 'several' orders bigger
21:49:58 <oklopol> yeah, that might be closer, but i prefer nice round numbers when not sure.
21:50:11 <ihope> I'll just assume it's 20.
21:50:21 <ihope> bsmntbombdood: have you actually calculated it?
21:50:22 <GregorR> I would say it's several hundred orders of magnitude bigger.
21:50:35 <oklopol> like it could be *that* little
21:51:01 <ihope> Well, anyway, the next 2.5*10^99 coins were all tails.
21:51:04 <ehird`> puzzlingly google's calculator refuses to accept that :P
21:51:12 <ehird`> it calculates the individual numbers, tohugh
21:51:23 <oklopol> hmm, does google know choose?
21:51:25 <ehird`> methinks they have some, uh, checks in there ;)
21:51:33 <ihope> I should just write a computer program to flip all these coins.
21:51:43 <ehird`> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=14+choose+8&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
21:52:00 * bsmntbombdood types binom(7.5*10^99, 5*10^99); into maxima and waits
21:52:12 <oklopol> oh, "choose" for choose :O could that *be* less intuitive...
21:52:33 <ehird`> and it does accept embedded exprs: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=04X&q=%2814*1%29+choose+%284*2%29&btnG=Search&meta=
21:52:41 <ehird`> but, alas, not 7.5*10^99 and its ilk ;)
21:52:59 <ehird`> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=c5X&q=%287.5*10%5E99%29+choose+%285*10%5E99%29%3D&btnG=Search&meta= even with = to force
21:53:28 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: gosh how suprising
21:53:52 <bsmntbombdood> it wuz using my precious memories and clock sykles
21:54:02 <ihope> Bounds would be just as useful as the number itself.
21:54:25 <ihope> 20 was a good enough lower bound to find that the next coins were all tails.
21:54:42 <ehird`> ihope: Try 34985743958743589734
21:54:55 <GregorR> I should mention that <scientific notation> choose <scientific notation> isn't useful, since it will be off by thousands of orders of magnitude.
21:54:56 <ehird`> Also, are you using a program? If so I want it I like useless programs :P
21:55:00 <ehird`> And as a lower bound/higher bound
21:55:07 <ehird`> GregorR: Of course, but who cares
21:55:09 <ihope> I can write a program to do this.
21:55:10 <ehird`> GregorR: It's closer than 20
21:55:18 <ehird`> ihope: ...in redivide?
21:55:31 <GregorR> ehird`: Probably not appreciably closer.
21:55:32 <ihope> GregorR: well, the scientific notations are exact.
21:55:37 <oklopol> GregorR: only if the scientific notation is an approximation...
21:55:43 <ihope> ehird`: does it HAVE to be in Redivider? :-P
21:55:47 <GregorR> Well, if they're exact, then yeah.
21:55:54 <GregorR> How often is scientific notation actually exact? :P
21:56:02 <ehird`> 7.5*10^99 is pretty exact...
21:56:06 <ihope> When it's expressing halves of a googol? :-P
21:56:07 <oklopol> it is when the numbers are created for the experiment
21:56:08 <Sgeo> What's Redivider?
21:56:18 <ehird`> Sgeo: ihope's substitution language
21:56:38 <ehird`> ihope: google's calculator calculates googol/2 for the record
21:56:38 <ihope> Not really substitution; it's inspired by Parsec and such combinator parsers.
21:56:39 <GregorR> Suffice to say that your power would probably need to be represented in scientific notation :P
21:57:55 <ihope> Let's express everything in scientific notation! In this game I currently have 7.2*10^(1*10^0) gold.
21:59:20 <GregorR> '0' isn't scientific notation, you need 0*10^(0^10^(...))
21:59:36 <GregorR> Erm, with 0*10 in that inner paren >_>
22:00:27 <faxathisia> I have (1*10^(1*10^999999)↑↑(1*10^99999))↑↑(1*10^(1*10^999999)↑↑(1*10^99999)) golds!
22:01:04 <Slereah-> Even more than atoms in 'em universe!
22:01:21 <ehird`> I have A(g_64,g_64) gold!
22:02:01 <ihope> I think compose graham (graham 64) 64 is bigger.
22:02:14 <ehird`> No, the ackermann function is pretty good ;)
22:02:31 <ehird`> Its formal definition: Takes two numbers, and outputs something big.
22:03:02 <faxathisia> GLYCYLGLYCYLGLYCYLGLYCINE has a 19-letter internal palindrome from the first to the last C and another 19-letter palindrome from the first G to the last G [Nick Papuga].
22:03:11 <ehird`> faxathisia: that's... useful
22:03:18 <ihope> I think even G_G_G_G_G_64 is bigger than A(G_64,G_64).
22:03:32 <ehird`> ihope: A(g_64,g_64) is the xkcd number.
22:03:41 <ehird`> It's probably much bigger than G_G_G_G_G_64
22:03:46 <ihope> Does that mean it's bigger than all other numbers?
22:04:02 <ehird`> the Clarkkkson number is bigger
22:04:11 <ihope> A(G_64,G_64) is about G_64 ^(G_64) G_64.
22:04:15 <ehird`> but clarkkson is ... kind of arbitarily defined
22:04:22 <ehird`> And no it isn't, ihope
22:04:38 <Slereah-> There's some pretty big numbers involved with the busy beaver algorithm.
22:04:45 <ihope> Which Ackermann function are you using?
22:04:50 <ehird`> Slereah-: Yeah, but BB isn't computable
22:05:03 <Slereah-> Well, not for any BB algorithm.
22:05:10 <Slereah-> But for a particular one, yes.
22:05:23 <ehird`> This one, ihope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_function#Definition_and_properties
22:05:25 <Slereah-> The numbers grow quickly with the number of symbols and states.
22:06:13 <ehird`> Slereah-: For a particular one? no, that's == halting problem isn't it?
22:06:26 <ihope> So A(m,n) = 2 ^(m-2) (n+3) - 3.
22:06:42 <Slereah-> Well, the halting problem can be solved for a whole lot of algorithm!
22:06:48 <ihope> So A(G_64,G_64) is about 2 ^(G_64) G_64.
22:06:53 <oklopol> i don't think the halting problem says anything about solving a particular case :|
22:07:03 <oklopol> just when the solver can be encoded in the input.
22:07:04 <ehird`> ihope: That's Knuth's up-arrow notation, not exponential
22:07:28 <ihope> Knuth's arrow notation is what I'm trying to confer.
22:07:28 <Slereah-> You may be right. I have some hard time with computability theory.
22:08:19 <Slereah-> I could have had a class on the subject next semester, but it was canceled.
22:08:25 <ehird`> Thank you, oklopol, for that profound insight
22:08:37 <ehird`> He's probably rolling in his grave now :P
22:08:44 <ihope> G_65 is 3 ^(G_64) 3, which isn't obviously greater than 2 ^(G_64) G_64.
22:08:48 <Slereah-> For some reason, I was never able to find rule /34/ on Alan Turing.
22:08:52 <ehird`> Then again, he DID commit suicide because he was persecuted for homosexuality...
22:08:59 <Slereah-> And yet, he should be an obvious target.
22:08:59 <ehird`> Slereah-: Oh jesus christ
22:09:05 <ehird`> Slereah-: I really hate you
22:09:46 <faxathisia> Slereah-: There are 10 A's in the Massachusetts lake name CHARGOGGAGOGGMANCHAUGGAUGGAGOGGCHAUBUNAGUNGAMAUGG
22:10:11 <oklopol> would be cool to get aroused by CA
22:11:24 <Slereah-> It takes a pretty special definition of coolness.
22:11:42 <GregorR> There are 21 A's in the onomatopoeia AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
22:12:11 <Slereah-> It would inspire some aw, indeed!
22:12:22 <Slereah-> There is a million A in a sequence of a million A.
22:12:57 -!- Slereah- has changed nick to Slereah.
22:13:42 -!- ehird` has left (?).
22:13:47 -!- ehird` has joined.
22:16:21 * oklopol has a theory humans can learn to get sexually excited by anything with universal behavior
22:17:18 <Sgeo> erm, don't you mean hypothesis?
22:17:20 <oklopol> or more generally, an automaton can get excited by any automaton it can emulate, but can't emulate trivially, and gets the most excited by automatons similar to it
22:17:51 <Slereah> In other word, WE CAN TEACH THE COMPUTER TO LOVE
22:17:51 <ehird`> i'm not sexually excited by turing machines
22:18:04 <ehird`> Slereah: Of course. Haven't you read Godel, Escher, Bach? ;)
22:18:12 <Slereah> Turing machines would be perfect for bondage, with that infinite tape.
22:18:29 <oklopol> they aren't very similar to your workings, ehird`; it only means you *can* get excited by them
22:19:25 <bsmntbombdood> human can get sexually excited by things without that
22:19:25 <ehird`> Slereah: It's a rambling hodgepodge of a book released in the 70s written by Douglas Hofstader (sp). It goes through various bizzare analogies and explanations and presents a theory of mind based on 'strange loops' and suggests this as a possible model for AI.
22:19:39 <oklopol> hmm... people can get excited by balloons... does that mean GregorR's pneumatic computer would most likely work?
22:19:42 <ihope> Hofstadter, isn't it?
22:19:45 <ehird`> Slereah: It's very interesting, but Douglas is crazy :) Still, I believe it has some current value
22:19:57 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%2C_Escher%2C_Bach
22:20:01 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: damn, gotta agree on that :<
22:20:15 <GregorR> oklopol: Just imagine, tubes writhing, pumping in and out as the air fills them, ooh yes.
22:20:20 <Slereah> Only computation theory book I bought was "To mock a mockingbird".
22:20:27 <GregorR> It's like tentacle porn, but with more computation.
22:20:27 <Slereah> Although the accurate word is "ordered".
22:20:34 <oklopol> heh, i prefer doing it with water though
22:20:44 <ehird`> faxathisia: er, in my opinion
22:20:47 <Slereah> The internet provides pretty much the rest on computation.
22:20:59 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: same thing, sometimes
22:21:01 <faxathisia> ehird`: you're probably right.. I guess I'll check the library
22:21:11 <faxathisia> I just assumed it was total garbage for some reason though :p
22:21:42 <ehird`> faxathisia: It's interesting but a bit mind-warping at parts :P The Tortoise/Achilles might annoy you, I've seen people who they do. I didn't mind them
22:21:59 <ehird`> 777 pages of his odd explanation style can be a bit tough to read
22:22:52 <oklopol> i'm going to ignore what bsmntbombdood said about liking non-tc things, for i just realized i found the perfect proof for universality.
22:23:54 <ehird`> porn is turing complete?
22:24:05 <ehird`> i want some porn that runs brainfuck code, stat!
22:24:50 <faxathisia> bsmntbombdood: drink way too much coffee
22:25:08 <oklopol> yeah, most programmers masturbate on their code, they just don't tell anyone
22:26:24 <oklopol> one guy in my class told he once had an erection over a java tutorial :|
22:26:39 <Slereah> This man will never procreate.
22:26:39 <oklopol> well not in my class, my class' irc channel
22:26:52 <Slereah> Unless he can make a robot son of some sort.
22:27:03 <oklopol> he actually had sex some time ago, after having complained about not getting any for like 2 years
22:27:10 <oklopol> now he says sex was kinda dull
22:27:22 <Slereah> It lacked Turing Completeness.
22:28:02 <ehird`> this discussion is disturbing
22:28:25 <Slereah> Then, I won't make my "OUTPUT DATA!" during orgasm remark.
22:28:37 <oklopol> i'll try keeping it on the average disturbance level
22:28:54 <Slereah> I'm new around here, what's the average disturbance level?
22:33:05 <oklopol> perhaps we should change the subject
22:33:52 <oklopol> so has anyone played tic-tac-toe without paper?
22:34:37 <Slereah> I barely play Tic Tac Toe on paper.
22:34:50 <Slereah> So not a lot of mentally either.
22:34:59 <oklopol> it's not about winning, it's about remembering the pattern
22:35:10 <ehird`> tic tac toe is trivial
22:35:13 <oklopol> ...at least as long as you can't even do that
22:35:13 <ehird`> first player wins, always
22:35:31 <ehird`> I can't believe some people cannot win tic-tac-toe 100%
22:35:39 <GregorR> ehird`: Actually, there's at least one playing algorithm that can never lose for either player.
22:35:46 <ehird`> GregorR: yes -- i meant draw
22:35:48 <oklopol> ehird`: you win all the computer programs?
22:36:16 <oklopol> err... first player always wins, given perfect players
22:36:17 <ehird`> oklopol: um, of course... and all the real players
22:36:24 <ehird`> oklopol: it's always a draw
22:36:38 <ehird`> http://boulter.com/ttt/
22:36:46 <ehird`> if you can win every time i am impressed :P
22:36:51 <oklopol> i may be using wrong terminology
22:36:52 <ehird`> the AI is kinda dumb in that one too
22:37:00 <oklopol> i naturally mean infinite board
22:37:28 <GregorR> <oklopol> i naturally mean infinite board // so you mean NOT tic-tac-toe X_X
22:37:55 <GregorR> Weird Derivative Of Tic-Tac-Toe With An Infinite Board :P
22:38:23 <oklopol> i mean the game where you try getting 5 in a row
22:38:27 <Slereah> What would be the rule on an infinite board?
22:39:00 <oklopol> 3/4 make the game trivial, 6 makes it impossible
22:39:25 <ehird`> also, i wish there was a language that could compile to java applets
22:39:33 <ehird`> or at least something with pixel-by-pixel graphics (NOT flash)
22:39:48 <ehird`> GregorR: Yeah, but Java is ewwww to program in
22:40:06 <ehird`> http://www.jython.org/Project/index.html
22:40:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:40:23 <ehird`> http://www.jython.org/applets/index.html That is win <3
22:40:35 <ehird`> But that loading time sucks ;P
22:41:27 <ihope> Make your own browser plugin! :-P
22:41:41 <ihope> Make your own browser and protocol!
22:41:50 <GregorR> And/or just use JavaScript, which is much better than you think it is.
22:41:59 <ehird`> GregorR: Actually I know javascript is love.
22:42:03 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:42:04 <ehird`> GregorR: It's very lispy
22:42:15 <GregorR> Oh, good - I was just using statistics for that last statement :P
22:42:24 <ehird`> GregorR: But - not feasable for implementing a simple 2d game, for instance
22:42:34 <ehird`> i.e. when i want to design my *own* menus and don't want flash's vector-ness
22:42:51 <ehird`> Java's awt applets are obviously perfect for that
22:43:03 <ehird`> and canvas has, uhh, lots and lots of support and is really fast!
22:43:22 <ehird`> (Canvas is slow as shit and doesn't work on quite a number of browsers.)
22:43:36 <GregorR> It's supported in every major browser (with google's IE canvas hack)
22:43:49 <ehird`> it's still slow as shit
22:44:28 * GregorR hasn't had enough experience with it to judge its speed *shrugs*
22:44:30 -!- k1w2u3 has quit ("Leaving").
22:44:35 <GregorR> My only experience is my JS 3D engine.
22:45:11 <GregorR> My ultra-slow, crappy 3D engine? :P
22:45:29 <GregorR> That only uses canvases for one-color walls, and uses <img>s for everything else?
22:45:41 <GregorR> And wtf, my web site is down? >_O
22:46:10 <GregorR> Eh, I'll just upload it to codu.org :P
22:46:58 <ehird`> http://codu.org/dcvogllmrcmcdp.ogg This is hypnotic
22:47:58 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/js3d/3d.html
22:50:08 <ehird`> GregorR: Have you tried wolfenstein 3k? It's fast :P
22:50:46 <GregorR> This uses the same theoretical technique.
22:51:03 <GregorR> But with more Gregor-doesn't-know-what-he's-doing.
22:51:21 <ehird`> I'm going to try Jython
22:51:35 <ehird`> If it works, you people can expect silly game ideas coded against your will randomly by me :P
22:51:59 <GregorR> If it works, you can expect me never to use any of them ^^
22:52:34 <oklopol> GregorR: you do really speak that fast, or is that computer aided?
22:52:56 <ehird`> oklopol: Obviously aided
22:52:59 <GregorR> I spoke at normal speed and used Audacity.
22:53:03 <oklopol> i speak finnish faster than that.
22:53:06 <GregorR> It doesn't sound quite human ^^
22:53:22 <ehird`> GregorR: it reminds me of Farkle
22:53:27 <oklopol> i can read aloud faster than my friend reads
22:53:41 <oklopol> well yeah, it kinda sdluppers.
22:54:39 * Sgeo should get going.. NOW
22:55:08 <oklopol> i can't make out what you say there, GregorR :<
22:56:11 <GregorR> ... is not kosher. Do not drink ... if you are pregnant or think you may become pregnant. As with all sodas, ... has a risk of dependence. Please consult your doctor before drinking ...
22:56:54 <GregorR> ... is not appropriate for children, nursing mothers or senior citizens.
22:57:02 <Slereah> "May cause spontaneous death"
22:57:03 <oklopol> okay, i didn't get that kosher thing, and thought you said you may become pregnant by drinking it
22:57:40 <Slereah> "The manufacturer shall not be liable for any mind controlling drugs present in the product"
22:57:42 <GregorR> If you've ever heard radio ads (in America?), the quick-talking guy at the end is the equivalent of small print :)
22:57:51 <oklopol> hmm, i vaguely recall some woman speaking 5 words a second
22:58:17 <oklopol> i've seen a lot of american shows
22:58:50 <oklopol> hmm, i think i'll do some sleeping now ->
23:08:36 <ihope> I'd like to try improvisational language again.
23:09:12 <ihope> Call it Planlang, for obvious reasons.
23:10:33 <GregorR> Improvisational language = ?
23:11:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
00:20:02 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio.
00:24:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:24:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
00:26:44 -!- ihope__ has joined.
00:29:08 <lament> bsmntbombdood: toki pona
00:31:17 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:03:29 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope_.
01:03:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:20:16 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:20:17 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:20:17 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:20:17 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:20:27 -!- helios24 has joined.
01:20:27 -!- fizzie has joined.
01:25:18 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
01:25:18 -!- EgoBot has joined.
01:37:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:37:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:39:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
01:39:33 -!- EgoBot has joined.
01:56:08 <dbc> <GregorR> If you've ever heard radio ads (in America?), the quick-talking guy at the end is the equivalent of small print :)
01:56:38 <dbc> Yeah, they should add it to songs too. "Proud to be an American...where at least I know I'm free somerestrictionsapplychecklocallistingsfordetails"
02:03:25 <dbc> Kind of funny how we talk so big and we wave the flag and then someone smokes marijuana or sleeps with a seventeen-year-old and we lock them up with the murderers.
02:03:45 <dbc> "Our commitment to the word 'freedom' is legendary."
02:12:55 -!- cpressey has joined.
02:14:44 <cpressey> in case you have not seen it yet
02:14:46 <cpressey> http://catseye.tc/projects/urreading/
02:33:55 * GregorR writes an esolang named Yartnote :P
02:38:49 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:40:58 <ihope> Indeed, the idea of victimless crimes is plain old stupid in quite a many cases.
02:42:21 <GregorR> "Victimless crime" is a term usually applied to crimes with victims.
02:43:14 <ihope> "Victimless crime" meaning "crime whose victims have all consented"?
02:43:46 <GregorR> More generally, "consensual act" :P
02:43:55 <GregorR> It doesn't make sense for any consensual act to be illegal.
02:47:05 -!- immibis has joined.
02:47:55 <GregorR> Heh, Wikipedia's page on victimless crimes mentions consensual cannibalism, one that I bring up all the time.
02:48:57 <ihope> Please eat me, GregorR.
02:49:45 <GregorR> I usually put it into the case where there isn't even a consensual killing: If I was to, in my will, give my body to a friend of mine, under the stipulation that they eat it, would they even be legally allowed to?
02:50:54 * bsmntbombdood needs something to use for the cover of a journel/book
02:51:12 <GregorR> How about "HOW DU U SPEL JOURNEL?"
02:52:32 -!- boily has joined.
02:53:46 <GregorR> Heh, Wikipedia page on victimless crime -> "Many proponents of reform argue that removal of these laws would be a boom to the economy." -> THE ECONOMY WILL EXPLODE?
03:06:38 -!- pikhq has joined.
03:30:03 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:04 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:04 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:04 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:05 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:05 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:05 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:06 -!- Alleria_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:06 -!- lament has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- boily has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- ihope_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:07 -!- GregorR has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:08 -!- Slereah has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:08 -!- AnMaster has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:08 -!- dbc has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- pikhq has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- cherez has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:30:10 -!- johnk_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:43:12 -!- johnk_ has joined.
03:43:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
03:43:12 -!- faxathisia has joined.
03:43:12 -!- cherez has joined.
03:43:12 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
03:43:12 -!- pikhq has joined.
03:43:22 -!- sekhmet has joined.
03:43:28 -!- Slereah has joined.
03:43:28 -!- AnMaster has joined.
03:43:28 -!- dbc has joined.
03:43:31 -!- oklopol has joined.
03:43:31 -!- zuzu has joined.
03:43:40 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:43:40 -!- ihope_ has joined.
03:43:40 -!- ihope has joined.
03:43:40 -!- tokigun has joined.
03:43:40 -!- GregorR has joined.
03:43:40 -!- Overand has joined.
03:43:49 -!- EgoBot has joined.
03:43:49 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
03:43:49 -!- helios24 has joined.
03:43:49 -!- fizzie has joined.
03:43:51 -!- cmeme has joined.
03:49:20 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:20 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:20 -!- GregorR has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:20 -!- ihope_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:21 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:21 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:21 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:22 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:23 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:23 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:23 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- dbc has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- AnMaster has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- Slereah has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- cherez has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- johnk_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- pikhq has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
03:49:24 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:10:49 -!- pikhq has joined.
04:10:50 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
04:10:50 -!- cherez has joined.
04:10:50 -!- faxathisia has joined.
04:10:50 -!- johnk_ has joined.
04:10:56 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:10:56 -!- ihope_ has joined.
04:10:56 -!- ihope has joined.
04:10:56 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:10:56 -!- GregorR has joined.
04:10:56 -!- Overand has joined.
04:10:57 -!- EgoBot has joined.
04:10:57 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
04:10:57 -!- helios24 has joined.
04:10:57 -!- fizzie has joined.
04:11:09 -!- sekhmet has joined.
04:11:12 -!- oklopol has joined.
04:11:12 -!- zuzu has joined.
04:11:13 -!- AnMaster_ has joined.
04:11:13 -!- Slereah has joined.
04:11:13 -!- AnMaster has joined.
04:11:13 -!- dbc has joined.
04:11:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
04:11:27 -!- cmeme has joined.
04:18:03 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
04:20:39 -!- ihope__ has joined.
04:21:43 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:21:43 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:21:43 -!- GregorR has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:21:43 -!- ihope_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:21:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:21:44 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:21:55 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope_.
04:24:09 -!- Overand has joined.
04:24:36 -!- ihope has joined.
04:24:37 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:35:38 -!- Overand has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)).
04:35:39 -!- Overand has joined.
04:35:44 -!- Overand_ has joined.
04:35:49 -!- GregorR has joined.
04:36:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
04:36:53 -!- Overand has quit (Connection timed out).
04:36:53 -!- Overand_ has changed nick to Overand.
04:56:14 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:56:23 -!- tokigun has joined.
04:57:15 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:57:15 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:57:15 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:57:53 -!- immibis_ has joined.
04:58:04 -!- Overand has joined.
04:58:04 -!- oklopol has joined.
04:58:04 -!- zuzu has joined.
05:01:09 -!- Overand has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:11:52 -!- Overand has joined.
05:11:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:11:52 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
05:11:52 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined.
05:11:52 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:11:52 -!- SimonRC_ has joined.
05:11:52 -!- immibis_ has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)).
05:12:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:12:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection reset by peer).
05:12:51 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:13:22 -!- Overand has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
05:14:53 -!- sekhmet has quit ("kernel upgrade").
05:16:00 -!- Overand has joined.
05:16:38 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:21:02 -!- sekhmet has joined.
05:22:18 -!- Overand has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)).
05:22:18 -!- Overand has joined.
05:22:26 -!- Overand_ has joined.
05:22:45 -!- Overand has quit (Connection reset by peer).
05:22:49 -!- Overand_ has changed nick to Overand.
05:22:55 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:28:49 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
05:28:50 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
05:30:15 -!- zuzu has joined.
05:50:29 -!- ihope__ has joined.
05:52:39 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
05:52:39 -!- ihope_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
05:52:48 -!- sekhmet has joined.
05:52:48 -!- ihope_ has joined.
05:56:04 -!- ihope__ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
05:59:51 -!- ihope_ has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)).
05:59:51 -!- ihope_ has joined.
06:05:20 -!- ihope__ has joined.
06:18:45 -!- ihope___ has joined.
06:19:23 -!- immibis_ has joined.
06:21:23 -!- ihope__ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:21:23 -!- pikhq_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:21:23 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:21:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:25:19 -!- pikhq has joined.
06:25:55 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out).
06:28:14 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis.
06:28:49 -!- immibis has changed nick to xyz.
06:28:55 -!- xyz has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:29:48 -!- ihope__ has joined.
06:29:48 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
06:29:48 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
06:29:48 -!- EgoBot has joined.
06:29:59 -!- immibis has joined.
06:36:51 -!- ihope__ has quit (Connection timed out).
06:37:38 -!- immibis_ has joined.
06:43:57 -!- ihope___ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:44:00 -!- ihope____ has joined.
06:44:09 -!- ihope____ has changed nick to ihope_.
06:47:40 -!- immibis___ has joined.
06:48:17 -!- immibis_ has quit (Nick collision from services.).
06:48:19 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.).
06:48:21 -!- immibis___ has changed nick to immibis.
06:48:57 <immibis> stupid wireless connection...
06:51:06 -!- ihope___ has joined.
06:54:59 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:54:59 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:54:59 -!- pikhq_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
07:00:25 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
07:00:25 -!- EgoBot has joined.
07:01:44 -!- ihope___ has quit (Connection timed out).
07:08:51 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
07:08:51 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
07:10:29 -!- immibis_ has joined.
07:12:57 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.).
07:13:00 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis.
07:13:55 -!- cmeme has joined.
07:13:55 -!- ihope has joined.
07:16:18 <immibis> i repeat: stupid wireless connection...
07:21:26 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
07:21:26 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
07:28:02 -!- cmeme has joined.
07:28:02 -!- ihope has joined.
07:47:27 -!- Tritonio has joined.
07:56:40 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If you can't laugh at yourself, mak).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:03:27 -!- jix has joined.
09:19:31 -!- noom has joined.
09:20:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:21:58 <noom> Will someone please echo the character at 0xFF09FB7 to the screen?
09:22:27 -!- noom has quit (Client Quit).
09:22:45 <faxathisia> I don't think there is such a character
09:27:49 <fizzie> I had 0x00 there, if /proc/kcore is telling me the truth.
10:05:10 -!- faxathisia has quit.
10:05:38 -!- oklopol has joined.
10:17:21 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
11:30:31 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster.
11:43:40 -!- Sgeo has joined.
11:56:36 -!- Tritonio has joined.
12:06:29 <Sgeo> http://worsethanfailure.com/Comments/Oh-The-Weather-Outside-is-Frightful.aspx#160265
12:19:38 <Slereah> Dividing by 10? What sort of mathemagic is this?
12:31:52 <Sgeo> http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/thread/136476.aspx
12:32:37 <Sgeo> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1022757_cool_cash_card_confusion
12:54:42 -!- jix has joined.
12:59:43 -!- ehird` has joined.
13:11:39 <Sgeo> Hi jix and ehird`
13:14:29 <ehird`> Sgeo: you don't respond to /invites how hypocritical :P
13:14:49 * Sgeo wasn't paying attention
13:27:24 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
13:27:34 -!- jix has joined.
13:33:43 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
13:34:07 -!- jix has joined.
13:51:56 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:53:17 -!- Tritonio has joined.
14:26:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:44:15 -!- Slereah has joined.
15:40:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:26:00 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:18:11 -!- importantshock has joined.
18:08:28 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:08:28 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:09:26 -!- tokigun has joined.
18:12:24 -!- zuzu has joined.
18:17:22 -!- faxathisia has joined.
18:22:56 -!- pikhq has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:22:56 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:24:53 -!- pikhq has joined.
18:24:53 -!- sekhmet has joined.
18:25:09 -!- sekhmet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:25:12 -!- sekhmet has joined.
18:32:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:32:23 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:32:23 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:35:33 -!- Tritonio has joined.
18:35:33 -!- cmeme has joined.
18:35:33 -!- ihope has joined.
18:42:51 <ehird`> GregorR: you have an imposter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GregorB
18:45:13 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:45:13 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:45:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:46:24 -!- Tritonio has joined.
18:46:24 -!- cmeme has joined.
18:46:24 -!- ihope has joined.
18:54:06 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:54:06 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:54:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:54:25 -!- Tritonio has joined.
18:54:25 -!- cmeme has joined.
18:54:25 -!- ihope has joined.
18:54:59 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:02:43 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:02:43 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:05:44 -!- Tritonio has joined.
19:05:44 -!- ihope has joined.
19:07:56 -!- importantshock has quit.
19:10:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:21:34 -!- sebbu3 has joined.
19:24:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:24:10 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:24:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:24:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:24:29 -!- Tritonio has joined.
19:24:29 -!- ihope has joined.
19:29:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:31:53 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:31:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:31:54 -!- sebbu2 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:33:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:33:10 -!- Tritonio has joined.
19:33:10 -!- ihope has joined.
19:41:58 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:41:58 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:42:36 -!- faxathisia has joined.
19:42:36 -!- oklopol has joined.
19:45:03 -!- oklopl has joined.
19:45:45 -!- oklopol has quit (Success).
19:48:20 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:52:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out).
20:01:47 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:02:35 -!- faxathisia has joined.
20:12:51 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:12:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:13:48 -!- Tritonio has joined.
20:13:48 -!- ihope has joined.
20:17:57 -!- importantshock has joined.
20:24:22 <Sgeo> Hi importantshock
20:25:07 <Slereah> So far, many "hi" between long hours of silence.
20:25:34 <ehird`> i am waiting for people to join #zingcode
20:28:15 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklokok.
20:38:57 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:38:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:39:16 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:39:16 -!- Tritonio has joined.
20:39:16 -!- ihope has joined.
20:40:01 <Sgeo> Hi RedDak, re Tritonio and ihope
20:40:32 <ehird`> GregorR: Do you mind me conceptually ripping some ideas from DPlof for my CZing implementation? :P
20:49:35 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:49:35 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:49:36 -!- RedDak has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
20:50:18 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:50:18 -!- Tritonio has joined.
20:50:18 -!- ihope has joined.
20:52:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:55:23 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh.").
21:10:59 <ehird`> ihope: :P I can't remember why I pinged you. Probably #zingcode
21:37:40 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
21:37:58 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:39:04 * Sgeo falls asleepdead
21:39:44 <ehird`> Sgeo: go to fucking bed
21:39:58 <Sgeo> It's not nearly time to do that.. besides, I trie
21:40:09 <ehird`> 'time' is when you're tred.
21:42:05 <Sgeo> I'm tired whenever I wake up from a nap or actual sleep..
21:43:00 <Sgeo> How do I do that?
21:44:05 <ehird`> recompile your code without optimization options
21:44:08 <ehird`> and with debug options
21:46:49 <ehird`> that's a metaphor for "fix your sleep patterns"
21:47:32 * Sgeo wishes he knew how to do that
21:48:41 <ehird`> get up at a good time, go to sleep at a good time :P
21:49:19 <Sgeo> that latter part is giving me difficult
21:49:36 <Sgeo> I go to bed, but can't fall asleep..
21:51:06 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
22:10:11 <ehird`> insomnia won't go away by ignoring it
22:19:43 <Sgeo> def abc: print "A B C! 1 2 3! A B C! 1 2 6"
22:20:21 -!- sekhmet has quit ("kernel").
22:20:21 <ehird`> def abc() { println("A B C! 1 2 3! A B C! 1 2 6") }
22:20:25 <ehird`> Sorry, had a ZING MOMENT there.
22:25:56 -!- sekhmet has joined.
22:26:59 <Sgeo> PSOX is a layer that goes between stdin/stdout and an esolang that can only do stdin/stdout. It will provide things such as file manipulation and HTTP stuff to languages like Brainfuck
22:27:04 * Sgeo invited sekhmet
22:27:09 <ehird`> Sgeo is spamming people again
22:33:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:56:20 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
23:05:57 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
23:07:31 -!- faxathisia has joined.
23:09:18 -!- oklopol has joined.
23:09:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out).
23:11:05 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:24:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
23:24:46 -!- sebbu3 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
23:28:28 -!- sekhmet has joined.
01:00:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:01:35 <ihope_> Abc = Print "A B C! 1 2 3! A B C! 1 2 6"
01:04:02 <Tritonio> faxathisia, where are you from?
01:07:16 <Tritonio> i really need some sleep... so goodnight everyone.
01:10:18 <ihope_> Or maybe "tufueo" would be a better word.
01:17:38 <ihope_> A couple words for "bye".
02:58:50 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:40:50 -!- Arrogant has joined.
03:48:32 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
04:05:34 -!- noom has joined.
04:06:28 -!- noom has left (?).
04:48:54 <faxathisia> time-reversible language Janus http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~mpf/rc/janus.html
05:35:53 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:36:00 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:10:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:10:29 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:34:40 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal").
06:44:04 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:49:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
07:07:31 -!- puzzlet has joined.
07:10:24 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:17:48 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
08:29:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:38:14 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:39:03 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:59:55 -!- sebbu has joined.
11:33:39 -!- RedDak has joined.
11:43:10 -!- ihope____ has joined.
11:43:23 -!- ihope____ has changed nick to ihope_.
12:08:58 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:11:15 -!- Dagide has joined.
12:20:45 <Tritonio> faxathisia, is it that super-turing-complete language that can print the time needed by a program to execute even before it's execution?
12:21:16 <faxathisia> You can run anything forwards and backwards in it, and there's a self interpreter
12:22:28 <Tritonio> it just changes the direction of the execution?
12:23:23 <faxathisia> yeah, example is setting n to 4 then calling fibonacci ends up with x = 5, y = 8
12:23:40 <faxathisia> setting x to 5, y to 8, then uncalling fib ends up with n = 4
12:25:33 <faxathisia> (It's reversible since every operation is invertible)
12:27:52 -!- Dagide has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
12:28:04 -!- dak has joined.
12:29:29 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:27:42 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:20:09 -!- Slereah- has joined.
14:34:00 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:34:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:52:53 -!- jix has joined.
15:02:38 -!- Tritonio has joined.
15:06:23 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:10:31 -!- dak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:12:08 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:18:54 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:19:58 -!- Dagide has joined.
15:20:36 <ehird`> i'm writing a brute-force tic-tac-toe algo for the hell of it
15:20:43 <ehird`> and i was calling make_move from within my bruteforcer
15:20:48 <ehird`> which calls brute_force to decide a move...
15:21:20 -!- Dagide has quit (Client Quit).
15:21:46 -!- dak has joined.
15:22:34 -!- dak has quit (Client Quit).
15:38:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Connection timed out).
15:54:35 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:55:45 -!- RedDak has quit (Client Quit).
15:57:46 -!- RedDak has joined.
16:08:11 <ehird`> copy_game(ng) is changing ml2?
16:50:20 <ehird`> oklopol: ihope: megaping #zingcode
17:03:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:03:15 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
17:50:17 <Tritonio> ehird`, what do you mean brute force tic tac toe?
17:50:27 <Tritonio> recursivelly searching the whole game tree?
17:50:34 <ehird`> Tritonio: try every possible move+response from the current one, select the best one
17:50:58 <ehird`> it kinda fails if you make the board bigger than 3x3 because of certain time complexity issues ;)
17:51:00 <Tritonio> http://inshame.blogspot.com/search/label/My%20Progs%3A%20A%28X%29I%28O%29
17:51:19 <ehird`> that site makes my eyes bleed
17:51:38 <ehird`> background+text colour+etc
19:10:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:29:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:49:21 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: what is the time complexity of that algorithm?
19:49:37 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: O(Fucking Slow)
19:51:19 <ehird`> GregorR: it's extended O notation
19:51:47 <ehird`> it adds three new definitions: O(Pretty Damn Fast), O(Faster than NOP) and O(Fucking Slow)
19:51:50 <GregorR> Sort of a qualitative big O :P
19:52:06 <ehird`> i don't think you can solve much with a O(Faster than NOP) algorithm, though
19:52:40 <ehird`> O(Quantum algorithm that finishes before you run it)
19:53:44 <Slereah-> Let's send the electric signal FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT
19:53:51 <ehird`> Slereah-: With SCIENCE!
19:54:09 <ehird`> Ooh, I just downloaded the 5th next version of the Linux kernel.
19:54:18 <ehird`> It's compressed to 1 byte, in the future.
19:54:44 <Slereah-> Tell me, so that I can say I invented it!
19:54:46 <ehird`> I'm having some problems getting the uncompressor downloaded though.
19:55:06 <ehird`> Slereah-: Sorry - if I told you a quantum paradox would appear and you would disappear from all possible universes according to string theory.
19:56:25 <Slereah-> Don't you remember Star Trek 4?
19:56:33 <Slereah-> With the transparent aluminium.
19:56:36 <ehird`> In the future Star Trek is old fashioned!
19:56:41 <Slereah-> "Won't that change the future?"
19:57:58 <ehird`> OKAY, KUBUNTU INSTALL TIME. SEE YOU SOON. :p
19:58:57 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:05:54 -!- ehird` has joined.
20:18:36 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
20:24:30 <ehird`> : SAY-HELLO ." HELLO WORLD" ; SAY-HELLO
20:26:24 <ehird`> : WELCOME-BACK ." Welcome back, " USERNAME . ." ." ; WORLD @ WELCOME-BACK
20:31:03 <ehird`> Entity = :[ name, init = (sname as string){ name = sname; }, greet = { println("Hello, " + name + "!"); } ]; world = new(Entity, "world"); world.greet()
20:31:08 <ehird`> ^ Plof, I think that's right
20:36:39 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:36:46 -!- puzzlet has joined.
20:41:54 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:51:18 -!- elliott_ has joined.
20:52:54 -!- elliott_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:53:11 -!- ehird` has joined.
20:58:04 <GregorR> On Wednesday, I got an email that used quotes for emphasis (You "CAN NOT" do blah blah blah). I couldn't help but send an email back pointing out that that's not only an incorrect use of quotes, but that the implication of quotes there is exactly the opposite of what he wants. I got one of these back: "In my 10+ years experience blah blah blah blah"
20:58:43 <ehird`> Now why is Kopete crashing when I connect to MSN???
20:59:03 <bsmntbombdood> i don't understand why people use quotes for emphasis
20:59:31 <ehird`> GregorR: I know it's the suck
20:59:35 <ehird`> But most people I know use it
21:01:33 <ihope> People should subscribe to prescriptive English manuals and make note of which ones they are whenever they say anything.
21:03:09 <bsmntbombdood> Dad, have you ever thought bout the fact that when men gather in a sauna, they sit in a lot of sweat from other men's buttocks, testicles, and anus? Is it some kind of experiment with homosexuality that heteros secretly allow themselves, because they're all basically confused about their sexuality?
21:04:27 <ihope> Heteros are all basically confused about their sexuality? I'm definitely hetero, then. I mean, hi.
21:05:49 <ihope> So is everybody either "confused heterosexual" or "definite homosexual", or...
21:21:03 -!- ihope____ has joined.
21:21:10 -!- Slereah has joined.
21:21:17 -!- ihope____ has changed nick to ihope_.
21:23:39 -!- ihope____ has joined.
21:28:53 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:34:58 <dbc> It bothers me when people use "may have" in place of "might have" to describe something that is known not to have happened.
21:35:58 <ehird`> This channel is esoteric about its topic being esoteric programming languages.
21:36:20 <dbc> "Groundhog Day": "If you hadn't been here, Bill would have choked to death for sure!" "Well, he may have, he was trying to swallow a whole cow."=
21:38:50 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out).
21:46:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
21:51:29 <Slereah> That's what happen when you have too much cybersex.
22:06:55 <faxathisia> bsmntbombdood: I don't know whether it is or not, I'll try to prove it once the interpreter is finished
22:07:18 <faxathisia> I'm quite sure it is.. since everything is bloody universal
22:10:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:11:54 <faxathisia> it says that reversible turing machines exist
22:12:32 <faxathisia> turing machines are revisible if their transition functions are bijective
22:20:27 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Alden-Cockburn-MD-D45E5C3F.cfm
22:20:37 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Harry-Beaver-MD-FD3B8B34.cfm
22:20:45 <GregorR> The common definition of a Turing machine is irreversible, but irreversibility is not a requirement for Turing completeness.
22:22:54 <faxathisia> I can prove it's turing complete by writing brainfuck in it, + - < > invert into - + > <.. And I can simply store a choice point (duplicate the store) at each [
22:33:32 <ihope> Take note of whether the loop was entered or not?
22:33:46 <ihope> That's enough to reverse a BF program, no?
22:36:01 <oklopol> i think you need to know how many times the loop was loopzored
22:38:12 <oklopol> what's the point of clothes
22:38:48 <ihope> oklopol: same thing, isn't it?
22:41:21 <GregorR> Am I insane for thinking a JavaScript MMIX simulator would be nice?
22:41:55 <ehird`> there was a link on reddit a while back
22:42:45 <GregorR> Hypothetically, one could C->JS with this >:)
22:43:08 <ehird`> It wasn't done. Sorry.
22:43:14 <ehird`> There was SOME sort of well-known arch done, though
22:48:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:03:01 <ehird`> GregorR: what can gcc output, instruction set-wise?
23:08:20 <ehird`> lots of things :P is there a list somewhere?
23:09:17 <ehird`> GregorR: http://www.recreationalmath.com/mixal/ MIX, but not MMIX
23:09:36 <GregorR> Unfortunately, GCC doesn't target MIX, only MMIX :(
23:09:44 <GregorR> There's a list at gcc.gnu.org . The link on the right that says "back ends"
23:11:26 <faxathisia> bsmntbombdood: I can't do anything which removes information
23:11:42 <faxathisia> so if you have the current cell = 3, and you hit [-]
23:11:59 <faxathisia> There must be a way, when running backwards to know when to exit the loop on the left
23:12:17 <faxathisia> I'll actually code this soon, it probably make more sense than my rambling
23:15:05 <ehird`> GregorR: How hard is it to write a backend? :P
23:15:30 <oklopol> ihope: if by "same thing" you meant "Take note of whether the loop was entered or not?" == "you need to know how many times the loop was loopzored", i don't see what you mean
23:15:53 <GregorR> ehird`: I've never tried, I'm a pansy like that. Suffice to say that I determined you can't write one for BF :P
23:16:09 <GregorR> (It won't work on platforms with no registers)
23:16:23 <GregorR> A MISC/OISC one would probably be feasible.
23:16:39 <GregorR> (No registers, but you can always just claim a specific chunk of memory as registers)
23:18:01 <ihope> Ah--I meant to take note at every opportunity.
23:19:47 <ehird`> GregorR: Feasable, but would it be EASY to get something working? :P
23:19:59 <GregorR> No. Not even the slightest bit.
00:19:14 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:45:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
00:55:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:55:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
01:12:27 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:14:00 -!- ihope____ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09").
01:18:42 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:18:43 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:26:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("brb").
01:31:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:31:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
01:40:44 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone").
02:38:58 <Sgeo> How should http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX be categorized?
03:05:22 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
03:05:24 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
03:06:42 <Sgeo> !bf_txtgen @_@
03:07:12 <EgoBot> 46 ++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.<. [294]
03:07:30 <faxathisia> !bf8 ++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.<.
03:10:25 <faxathisia> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms
03:10:44 <faxathisia> I need more algorithms and constants and stuff :D
03:11:34 <Sgeo> You'll get stuff when PSOX is completed.. admittedly, it will be stuff relating to PSOX..
03:12:22 <faxathisia> I need to make a language which compiles into brainfuck
03:12:37 <faxathisia> and have a cost on everything in the AST
03:14:00 <faxathisia> well I only want to represent stuff inside a program, there's no need for syntax
03:15:03 <faxathisia> Sgeo: It's for this http://rafb.net/p/hcpRe110.txt
03:16:13 <Sgeo> But I'm still not sure what AST is..
03:16:37 <faxathisia> it's just how you can represent a program as data
03:17:22 <faxathisia> BFStatement = + | - | < | > | [ | ] | . | ,
03:17:35 * Sgeo wonders if this sort of thing can be useful for PSOX somehow
03:17:38 <Sgeo> Thank you very much
03:17:40 <faxathisia> BFProgram = Nil | Cons BFStatment BFProgram
03:18:21 <Sgeo> Can I use that sort of thing to interpret a bunch of bytes into elements?
03:18:41 <faxathisia> and be able to get a cost (length of outputted brainfuck) so I can try to minimize it
03:19:05 <faxathisia> well you can parse some bytes into an ast
03:19:09 <Sgeo> Where can I find more info, Wikipedia isn't comprehensible to me
03:19:27 <Sgeo> faxathisia, and can I use that in a program to find out where data I'm being sent ends?
03:19:52 <faxathisia> It's probably not helpful in that respect
03:20:57 <Sgeo> I have a type, say that is 0x01 dbyte 0x01 dbyte2 0x00 then more junk
03:21:05 <Sgeo> Can I use it to somehow find where it ends?
03:21:22 <Sgeo> My current idea is to use regex, but it isn't flexible enough
03:21:45 <faxathisia> well if you have a decent description of the lannguage
03:22:04 <Sgeo> It's not a language, it's a stream of bytes to be interpreted into data
03:22:21 <Sgeo> http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-types.txt
03:22:45 <Sgeo> Is there a link for more info on AST I can read?
03:24:55 <faxathisia> 0x1 0x9 0x1 0x7 0x1 0x2 0x1 0x3 0x0 0x58 0x67 0x64
03:25:27 <Sgeo> The function that is accepting the data knows the types..
03:25:34 <faxathisia> Do you also have to know that it's an LNUM followed by STRING?
03:26:18 <faxathisia> there isn't need I think for an AST or parser
03:26:48 <faxathisia> what language you are writing the thing to interpret these bytes in?
03:28:35 <faxathisia> to lex is just turning some bytes or characters into tokens
03:28:46 <faxathisia> I would probably have a procedure which takes <Stream of data> <type> and returns <datum> <tail of the stream>
03:29:16 <faxathisia> then you can just call that repeatedly until all the data types you required are read from the bytes
03:29:43 <faxathisia> so e.g calling it with LNUM and 0x1 0x9 0x1 0x7 0x1 0x2 0x1 0x3 0x0 0x58 0x67 0x64, would return 5465445 and 0x58 0x67 0x64
03:30:06 * Sgeo wants to be able to do things that regex won't allow though
03:30:28 <Sgeo> Like a datatype specified as num_of_bytes_following than that number of bytes
03:30:35 <Sgeo> WHat should I use?
03:30:58 <faxathisia> well honestly I would do this with a logic programming language
03:31:12 <faxathisia> If you can find a simple logic system to embed in python it would be nice
03:32:20 <faxathisia> but it might be too big a hammer for a small task... So just doing it straight forward if/else type checking each character one by one would be easy too
03:33:27 <Sgeo> Something like that was the original plan, actually, but I thought it might be too complicated
03:33:46 <Sgeo> I was designing it in my mind using generators and things
03:34:50 <faxathisia> using regex like in your example seems a bit confusing
03:35:37 <faxathisia> you can take the head, which is a char, and the tail which might cause a read on stdin
03:35:56 <faxathisia> cause if you are dealing with arbitrary length stuff like big nums .. it wouldn't be possible to regex it would it?
03:37:10 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:37:17 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:37:57 <faxathisia> Sgeo: I dont' think what I said makes sense
03:38:18 <Sgeo> I don't see why regex can't be used, but I don't think it should be used..
03:38:24 <Sgeo> Too restrictive..
03:38:42 <faxathisia> let me see if I understand what you are doing..
03:38:48 <faxathisia> say you have some program B written in brainfuck
03:39:18 <faxathisia> it will print out some kind of signal saying I will call a function with a string and 2 numbers as parameters
03:39:40 <faxathisia> and PSOX is going to be reading the stdout of B and doing what B asks
03:39:58 <Sgeo> Well, the signal simply specifies the function, and the types are part of the function..
03:40:04 <Sgeo> But other than that, yess
03:40:34 <faxathisia> PSOX has an input stream from B called Sb
03:40:41 <faxathisia> and you can read a single character from Sb
03:41:03 <faxathisia> since Sb might output text of unbounded length (in the case of a string or big integer)
03:41:28 <faxathisia> There should be some structure which copes with that
03:41:52 <faxathisia> the easiest thing I can imagine is a pair of (char . Stream).. with operations head and tail
03:42:08 <faxathisia> head gives the char, and tail gives a new pair (next_char . Stream) by reading one char
03:42:48 <faxathisia> so given that it should be simple enough to write something which takes a type (STRING, LNUM etc) and one of those objects.. returning the read object and new pair
03:47:10 * Sgeo isn't sure that he understands
04:28:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:29:04 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:14:35 <faxathisia> like proofs that a program is the shortest one or whatever
05:14:55 <faxathisia> I found http://d.hatena.ne.jp/ku-ma-me/20070813/p1
05:15:31 <RodgerTheGreat> It's rather frightening how much of that I can understand without any knowledge of Japanese
05:17:25 * Sgeo wonders if it can be proven that there cannot be such a proof
05:18:07 <faxathisia> you can probably just enumerate every program and find the first one that could possibly print something
05:18:16 <faxathisia> so you can sometimes do it for a particular string
05:28:33 <RodgerTheGreat> and if you can prove it that way, there may be more complex ways to do it more efficiently
05:35:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:35:22 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:40:30 -!- oerjan has joined.
05:51:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:51:55 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:32:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
06:36:41 <faxathisia> It's not worthwhile to create a set of actions which have an associated brainfuck version... to try and compose in order to make short brainfuck code since the problem just becomes harder [I think]
06:39:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:46:41 -!- faxathisia has quit.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:03:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:03:42 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:18:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:16:38 -!- jix has joined.
09:47:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:47:36 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
10:25:59 -!- AnMaster_ has joined.
10:27:11 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.).
10:57:42 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined.
11:00:19 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:02:32 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster.
12:38:41 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:38:42 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:57:12 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
12:57:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:00:46 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
13:00:56 -!- jix has joined.
13:52:58 -!- Sgeo has joined.
14:02:02 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:21:27 -!- Slereah- has joined.
14:33:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:38:37 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:39:16 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
14:40:09 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:43:33 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
14:43:52 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:04:17 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:23:28 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:24:36 -!- oklopol has joined.
15:30:07 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
15:37:31 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:37:31 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:53:07 -!- tokigun has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:54:49 -!- tokigun has joined.
16:13:20 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
16:15:06 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:16:39 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:32:51 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
16:43:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:50:57 -!- SimonRC_ has changed nick to SimonRC.
17:45:21 <ehird`> is trying to get emacs to boot from scratch an esoteric enough thought for this channel? :P
17:45:42 <ehird`> that would be amusing because emacs would actually have a quite nice UI/interface paradigm for an OS
17:46:03 <ehird`> despite its general failing at, uh, editing text
17:51:59 <ihope> But does it have security?
17:55:46 <SimonRC> ehird`: the usual phrase is "A great OS but it lacks a decent text editor
17:56:14 <ihope> I'm sure someone's ported vi to emacs.
18:17:18 <ehird`> ihope: security, i doubt i t
18:17:31 <ehird`> SimonRC: well, considering the OS is based on text editing
18:29:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:31:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:33:03 <ehird`> brainfuck compiler question
18:33:37 <ehird`> should i optimize MOVE(+x) MODIFY(...) MOVE(-x) to MODIFY(at=x,...)
18:33:40 <ehird`> seems like it'd be faster
18:34:20 -!- Tritonio has joined.
19:11:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:15:04 <oerjan> hey, don't point that at me!
19:29:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:33:19 -!- sekhmet has quit ("omgkernel").
19:38:09 -!- sekhmet has joined.
19:42:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:42:05 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:43:33 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:43:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:43:33 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:43:33 -!- ehird` has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:43:42 -!- Tritonio has joined.
19:43:44 -!- sekhmet has joined.
19:43:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:43:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
19:43:44 -!- ehird` has joined.
19:54:12 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
20:01:32 -!- Tritonio has quit (Connection timed out).
20:05:13 <ehird`> I just realised my BF compiler's architechture is output-language neutral :)
20:05:39 <ehird`> It goes parse BF->compile BF into instructions->convert instructions into $LANG (LANG currently = D, could be easily made C and others)
20:08:43 <Sgeo> s/><//g s/<>//g s/+-//g s/-+//g s/(\]\.*?)\[.*?\]/\1/g
20:09:23 <Sgeo> hm that last one doesn't quite work
20:13:30 <Sgeo> Thoughts on http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Prevent_XSS_attacks ?
20:14:53 <ehird`> it's not really funny.
20:15:04 <Slereah-> Uncyclopedia is not really funny in general.
20:15:18 <Sgeo> ehird`, any ideas for improvements?
20:15:21 <ehird`> Slereah-: if you like being an idiot with no brain, sure
20:15:32 <ehird`> Sgeo: rewrite it? :| it's just incorrect, not incorrect in a funny way
20:16:01 * Sgeo has no clue how to make it incorrect in a funny way
20:16:44 <ehird`> Slereah-: well hey, ED is written by idiots with no brain
20:16:54 <ehird`> it wasn't trying to be an 'ice burn'
20:18:45 <ehird`> difference: uncyclopedia is funny and isn't populated with people saying 'lulz ice burn ohauhsushshsfhsdkjfhsfhsgsdk'
20:20:23 <Slereah-> Really? Then it must have changed quite a bit since the last time I saw it!
20:20:30 <Slereah-> The articles were pretty much "Lol random".
20:21:39 <Slereah-> While a lot of ED articles, though not useful, have the advantage of being true.
20:23:24 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lorem ipsum est!").
20:26:15 <ehird`> BF implementation question: it's required to read the input code as bytes, yes?
20:50:04 -!- immibis has joined.
20:55:11 -!- EgoBot has joined.
20:55:19 -!- GregorR has joined.
20:56:37 -!- immibis_ has joined.
20:57:12 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.).
20:57:16 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis.
21:33:55 -!- boily has joined.
21:36:26 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit).
21:36:38 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:41:12 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
21:50:56 <immibis> christel said [Global Notice] Hi all, we're experiencing some routing problems between our US hub and the machine services reside on, I'm about to do some re-routing and will also move services. There will be NO services while we swap things around. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!. Take that, RFC's 1459 and 2812!
21:53:35 <immibis> forgot to delete that script. oops!
21:54:42 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:55:40 <Sgeo> immibis, what are RFC 1459 and 2812?
21:56:33 <immibis> and say that an automated message can never be sent in response to a NOTICE.
21:57:13 <immibis> i got a global notice with the word Hi in it and the script i made *automatically* responded with a WHOIS, a VERSION, and a NOTICE as well as a message to this channel.
21:57:33 <immibis> oh and the notice said "you are such a fool". not a good thing to say to an IRCop.
22:00:25 <Sgeo> WHy didn't I get the global notice?
22:00:50 <Sgeo> What would happen if I changed my nick to MemoServ?
22:00:56 <Sgeo> Or NickServ, etc.?
22:01:05 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:02:42 <Sgeo> * SgeoServ :Erroneous Nickname
22:03:34 <immibis> [11:05] ->> Error 432 - ImmibisServ :Erroneous Nickname
22:03:41 <immibis> anything ending with Serv is a service i guess.
22:04:13 <Sgeo> <Tstarnes> Sgeo: You can't. Anything with serv in it is illegal
22:04:26 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to ServSgeo.
22:04:59 -!- ServSgeo has changed nick to Servera.
22:05:04 -!- Servera has changed nick to Serve.
22:05:39 <Serve> * Server :Erroneous Nickname
22:05:46 -!- Serve has changed nick to Sgeo.
22:07:06 -!- oklopol has changed nick to okoServe.
22:07:12 -!- okoServe has changed nick to oklopol.
22:09:20 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:09:25 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:11:51 <ehird`> immibis: well, that was pretty stupid.
22:14:20 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:31:22 -!- oklokok has joined.
22:33:04 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:34:16 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
23:08:30 <immibis> new script, anyone who says "What is Hadjin?" (not case-sensitive) is told what Hadjin is, and there is a 20% chance that anyone who speaks will be called a fool.
23:08:42 <immibis> if you find this annoying as i am sure you will, tell me.
23:10:10 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:25 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:29 <immibis> [12:10] -- Script Engine Error:13:Type mismatch: 'Rand': Line #10 --
23:10:54 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:55 <immibis> Sgeo, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game
23:10:59 <Sgeo> What is Hadjin?
23:10:59 <immibis> Sgeo, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game
23:11:21 <oklokok> no one is being called a fool
23:11:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("apt tells me i need to reboot soon").
23:11:55 * Sgeo can't find information about Hadjin
23:12:12 <immibis> "If (condition OR condition) And rnd() > 0.5 Then" is proper VBScript, isn't it?
23:13:32 <ehird`> unfortunately, it's possible
23:13:37 <immibis> immibis, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game. Join #hadjin or see http://hadjin.sourceforge.net/
23:13:47 <ehird`> Why are you using VBScript :P
23:14:29 <immibis> i made it intercept everything i said too.
23:14:30 <ehird`> Whyyyyyyy are you using VBScript >_<
23:14:42 <immibis> because icechat 5 script is based on vbscript
23:14:53 <immibis> even though i'm using icechat 7, i find v5 scripting is more versatile.
23:14:58 <immibis> immibis, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game. Join #hadjin or see http://hadjin.sourceforge.net/
23:16:42 <immibis> immibis, you are such a fool!
23:16:52 <immibis> whoever says every TENTH message gets insulted.
23:17:09 <immibis> oklokok, you are such a fool!
23:17:47 <immibis> it includes my own messages.
23:17:52 <immibis> immibis, you are such a fool!
23:17:52 <immibis> and messages from any channel.
23:18:22 <ehird`> why are you using icechat then immibis
23:18:41 <ehird`> it has a custom skin and is written in VB
23:18:47 <ehird`> a custom damn skin that looks fugly as hell
23:19:09 <ehird`> so is irc clients that don't add ugly gradients everywhere
23:19:09 <immibis> ehird`, you are such a fool!
23:19:10 <immibis> so what as long as it works
23:19:12 <oklokok> immibis: includes bots too?!? how did you make it *not* distinguish between messages sent by bots and human-driven clients?!?
23:19:19 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:19:25 <ehird`> and icons with white pixeled edges
23:22:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
23:26:00 <immibis> now parts and quits count.
23:28:39 -!- oklopol has joined.
23:30:14 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:33:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:33:36 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:44:20 -!- immibis has quit (No route to host).
23:44:45 -!- oklokok has joined.
23:46:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:48:26 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
00:09:00 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:09:07 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:26:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:27:20 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:36:00 <oklokok> mod points? i take it this is not irc
00:46:31 -!- Jontte has joined.
00:49:37 <Sgeo> oklokok, ping I said something in #psox
01:26:25 <Sgeo> Is this some sort of lesson?
01:26:34 <ehird`> in not pinging people all the time? yes. :P
01:37:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone").
02:04:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:05:25 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:18:05 <bsmntbombdood> http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/IMG_2302.JPG_small.jpg
02:19:35 <bsmntbombdood> http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/IMG_2328.JPG_small.jpg
05:14:20 -!- calamari has joined.
05:20:35 * Sgeo goes to sleep now..
05:20:51 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
05:52:27 -!- immibis has joined.
05:53:26 <immibis> immibis, you are such a fool!
05:54:00 <immibis> that script is now deleted.
05:57:56 <GregorR> I wrote an ELF64 loader in JavaScript, am I cool yet? 8-D
05:59:34 <immibis> why........................................................did you make...................................an ELF64 loader...........in JavaScript?
05:59:45 <immibis> and what use is it from within javascript anyway?
05:59:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:59:53 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
06:10:56 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
06:16:43 -!- pikhq has joined.
06:17:13 * pikhq is officially tired as fuck
06:38:09 <pikhq> Just got back from a campus visit. . .
06:38:19 <pikhq> And I've *essentially* not slept since Tuesday.
06:39:20 <pikhq> (well, fine. I've had a grand total of 16 hours of sleep since Tuesday night.)
07:31:56 -!- Figs1 has joined.
07:32:15 -!- Figs1 has changed nick to Figs.
07:33:45 <Figs> Long time no see...
07:36:05 <Figs> Eh, anyone alive?
07:46:24 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Take my advise. I don't use it anyw).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:37:00 <Jontte> who wants 781 mb of pascals triangle
08:37:36 <Jontte> i wonder if would it be illegal to share it on bittorrent :D
08:42:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("kthxbai").
08:44:03 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:44:09 -!- oklopol has joined.
08:59:13 -!- jix has joined.
08:59:13 -!- Figs has quit ("Java user signed off").
11:24:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
11:34:02 -!- RedDak has joined.
11:34:57 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:40:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:52:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
11:52:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:41:30 <Jontte> soo how does this work? can someone please tell me the time?
14:27:52 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
14:27:53 -!- puzzlet has joined.
14:30:24 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:33:16 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
14:33:39 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:38:09 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:39:40 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq is being tortured by college administrators!
14:45:08 <oklopol> someone come up with something witty! the first answer must not be a correct one
14:45:43 <oklopol> there's no propagation really, it can't be, i thinksssss
14:57:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:08:09 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:08:32 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:09:21 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:39:30 <ehird`> 18sec for mandelbrot.b
15:41:47 <Jontte> http://www.sipuli.net/joonas/mandelbrot.png
15:42:03 <ehird`> thank you, that's very helpful :|
15:42:11 <ehird`> i totally don't now what a mandelbrot set looks like
15:42:32 <ehird`> i am talking about the brainfuck mandelbrot program :P
15:42:40 <ehird`> i have a Brainfuck->D compiler in D
15:43:58 * ehird` wonders if there are any [, followed by + and - sequence, ] that does not eventually terminate with byte cells
15:44:15 <Jontte> can i see your brainfuck program?
15:45:50 <ehird`> Jontte: mandelbrot.b ain't mine
15:45:58 <ehird`> Jontte: google for it, it's all over the plcae
15:46:00 <ehird`> (the compiler is mine though)
15:46:15 <ehird`> oklopol: give me a [, (+- sequence), ] that doesn't halt :P
15:46:40 <ehird`> 'tehre is no trivial one'
15:47:06 <oklopol> if you mean a [<add constant>] loop, it's obvious it always terminates
15:48:17 <Jontte> i should write a brainfuck interpreter
15:48:43 <Jontte> or maybe just something that turns it to C
15:51:59 <ehird`> brainfuck interpreter = about 5 lines
15:52:03 <ehird`> brainfuck to C compiler = about 7
15:52:36 <ehird`> if you add optimization to the mix like i have, and intermediatry compilation stages and shit like i have, for me that brings it to 234
15:55:17 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
15:55:53 <ehird`> why the heck isn't this optimizing
15:57:50 <ehird`> it should be optimizing [+++] and [-+--] and [+] and [-]
15:58:09 <oklopol> brainfuck->C is much simpler than a brainfuck interpreter
15:58:24 <oklopol> it's just a textual substitution
15:58:39 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: the code is there
15:58:43 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: it just isn't... doing anything
15:59:25 <RodgerTheGreat> I always start with an initial pass of removing redundant +- -+ >< <> [] things
16:03:11 <ehird`> anyway ok but i'll give you some architechture info first
16:03:53 <ehird`> Bytes of BF code -> BFIns[] -> (optimize over BFIns[] until we can't do anything any more) -> output language X (currently D)
16:03:59 <RodgerTheGreat> some friends of mine convinced me it was sufficiently unlike C++
16:04:22 <ehird`> it's C + high level language of your choice, watered down
16:04:34 <ehird`> anyway, show me a pastebin with d support :P
16:05:15 <ehird`> damnit, i just did a mod and now my compiler is segfaulting
16:05:21 <ehird`> (Which is oddly rare in D, you barely ever use pointers.)
16:05:28 <ehird`> nonlogic dump reformats my code
16:05:33 <ehird`> which makes ehird` sad
16:06:43 <ehird`> but it does SOMETHING to it
16:06:50 <ehird`> added newlines once i think
16:07:56 <ehird`> Hmm. Now it doesn't crash but doesn't do the optimization either.
16:08:00 <RodgerTheGreat> that sounds quite unusual, but it's much more likely you have odd formatting that is not displayed correctly by your editor. The dump really doesn't do much to reformat text for display.
16:09:23 <RodgerTheGreat> a pre tag inside a div that contains CSS settings for stuff
16:09:23 <ehird`> Also my code seems to be SLOWER with my optimization...
16:09:45 <RodgerTheGreat> if you're optimizing for length, it's not surprising you get some speed hits
16:11:08 <ehird`> i'm optimizing for speed
16:11:24 <ehird`> the optimization that is failing is [-] to tape[ptr] = 0 instead of while (tape[ptr] != 0) { tape[ptr] -= 1; }
16:11:38 <ehird`> is NOT appearing in the compiled code
16:11:40 <ehird`> so something kooky is up
16:11:45 <ehird`> http://tripledoubleyou.pastebin.com/f68c7be75 here
16:11:58 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, holy crap- I didn't realize you were *targeting* D
16:12:15 <ehird`> it could be trivially changed to C.
16:13:01 <ehird`> while (tape[ptr] != 0) {
16:13:45 <Jontte> so how is D as a language? ive never tried or even seen it
16:13:52 <ehird`> now testing "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=--]+-[+"
16:14:04 <RodgerTheGreat> I've heard very good things from people who like C, C# and Java
16:14:10 <ehird`> Jontte: http://digitalmars.com/d
16:14:21 <ehird`> there's a free-as-in-speech implementation as gdc
16:14:28 <ehird`> dmd though is non-free (the backend. the frontend is open)
16:14:34 <RodgerTheGreat> I like Java and will concede some benefits to C, so it seems nifty
16:15:01 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: D is like Java without the 'You'll be safe with me and my protection!' and 'You must type this out so I can understand it properly'
16:15:35 <ehird`> while (tape[ptr] != 0) {
16:15:35 <ehird`> while (tape[ptr] != 0) {
16:15:38 <RodgerTheGreat> I understand you can compile with runtime checking, or optionally take it out. This seems to me like a very good idea
16:15:40 <ehird`> i uh, think that's broken
16:19:08 <oklopol> ehird`: sorry, of course any [<add constant>] that has constant=0 will not terminate...
16:19:21 <ehird`> oklopol: doh, you#re right
16:19:29 <oklopol> didn't think that one through
16:19:51 <ehird`> that makes things a LOT harder
16:20:22 <oklopol> hmm... not really, you don't have to optimize an infinite loop...
16:20:32 <ehird`> it makes it really hard
16:21:02 <oklopol> nope, [<add constant>] should be optimized to [] for constant=0 with your optimizations
16:21:13 <oklopol> [] can be your trivial infinite loop
16:21:18 <oklopol> just hardcode a check for it
16:22:15 <ehird`> but i do optimization in passes
16:22:21 <ehird`> (infinite passes until no_opt_done)
16:22:35 <ehird`> would be picked up instantly
16:25:14 <ehird`> while (tape[ptr] != 0) {
16:26:07 <ehird`> tape[ptr] = 0; while (tape[ptr] != 0) {}
16:26:56 <oklopol> tape[ptr]=0 was a part of it
16:27:06 <oklopol> ...where did you get that?
16:28:09 -!- pikhq has joined.
16:31:34 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:31:42 -!- jix has joined.
16:41:45 <ehird`> Done compiling, program:
16:42:01 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:42:09 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:42:17 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:43:13 <ehird`> Done compiling, program:
16:43:21 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:43:29 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:43:37 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:43:45 <ehird`> One optimization step, program:
16:46:41 <pikhq> What sort of optimization do you have running here?
16:51:56 <ehird`> (OK, kate, that's the last straw. I'm setting up gvim on this machine.)
16:52:49 <oklopol> [[--][+]] -> [[-][]] is technically correct, but ...why the fuck does it optimize it like that?
16:53:17 <oklopol> we know the current cell is zero, so [+] can be made into []
16:53:54 <ehird`> that's not what it does
16:56:49 <pikhq> And the whole thing could be reduced to [-] with ease. . .
16:57:13 <pikhq> (assuming that at the start of that string, current is zero, it'll get transformed into "")
16:57:19 -!- meme_ has joined.
16:57:24 -!- Guilt has joined.
16:57:52 <oklopol> well any [...] can be removed if you know current is 0
17:06:15 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving").
17:38:39 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: No torture involved. Sorry.
17:43:55 <ehird`> pikhq: if you write a stringlib for pebble, i'll write pebble.bfm :P
17:43:59 <ehird`> as it is it would be too painful
17:47:29 <pikhq> ehird, I'd first need to implement arrays.
17:47:41 <ehird`> extra points: linked list
17:47:45 <pikhq> calamari's array implementation does not seem to *work*.
17:48:04 <pikhq> In Brainfuck, any sort of complex data structure would need to be done via arrays, I fear.
18:48:05 <dbc> -how many of these optimizations will improve well-written brainfuck code?
18:48:41 <dbc> -why would it be possible to replace [--] with [-]?
18:49:39 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:49:39 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:49:39 -!- AnMaster has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
18:51:00 <dbc> I mean, [-]+[--] will not terminate with byte cells.
18:52:51 -!- oklopol has joined.
18:52:51 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
18:52:51 -!- AnMaster has joined.
18:52:58 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection reset by peer).
18:52:58 -!- oklopol has joined.
18:53:14 -!- AnMaster has quit (SendQ exceeded).
18:54:59 -!- AnMaster has joined.
18:56:35 <ehird`> dbc: 1. a few 2. good point
19:11:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:18:42 <Slereah_> "[Friends-of-brainfuck] Most intimate problems can be solved with WonderCum."
19:18:50 <Slereah_> The FoB mailing list is quite deserted.
19:22:04 <ehird`> friends-of-brainfuck? what the hell is that.
19:22:35 <Slereah_> But even when I joined, it was already deserted.
19:22:37 -!- RedDak has joined.
19:25:46 -!- ihope_ has joined.
19:30:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
19:39:36 <dbc> Yeah. It didn't use to be, seven years ago or so.
19:40:07 <Slereah_> Looks like I missed the train by quite a long shot!
19:43:57 <oklopol> was there... life back then :O
19:49:23 <oklopol> hmm, that explains the simpler programming languages
19:50:21 <Slereah_> Later, more complex lifeform evolved, like birds.
19:50:31 <Slereah_> And that's how we got the logical combinator.
19:51:14 -!- Guilt has joined.
19:55:15 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:16:29 <ihope_> Why are there so many avian combinators?
20:18:08 <GregorR> Me cracks his knuckles for some concept-proving.
20:18:17 <GregorR> I did "Me" instead of "/me"
20:18:25 <GregorR> Me slaps himself in the head.
20:18:29 * GregorR cracks his knuckles for some concept-proving.
20:18:32 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html
20:20:13 <Sgeo> GregorR, what's that?
20:20:25 <GregorR> It's a partially-implemented MMIX simulator in JavaScript.
20:20:33 <Sgeo> "partially" I noticed
20:21:56 -!- vickyfi has joined.
20:23:41 <Guilt> who's doing MMIX? :)
20:23:58 <Guilt> GregorR, sweet. does it run mmixware examples?
20:24:14 -!- vickyfi has left (?).
20:24:16 <Guilt> is there any guy here who has recieved a cheque from DEK?
20:24:17 <GregorR> It runs the hello.mms one.
20:24:28 <Guilt> i want to meet such a guy
20:24:39 <GregorR> I've actually only been trying hello.c compiled by GCC (I like a challenge :P )
20:24:50 <Guilt> Gregor: what about MMMIX?
20:25:01 <ehird`> GregorR: You did? You crazy fuck.
20:25:12 <Guilt> and, is there a gcc backend to mmix/
20:25:27 <ehird`> GregorR: you make my konqueror go slow
20:25:27 <GregorR> I'm thinkin', C->JS would be amusing X-D
20:25:30 <Guilt> sweet. where is it?
20:25:31 <ehird`> konqui will kill you in the night
20:25:49 <Guilt> i didn't find it in config/
20:25:57 <GregorR> Guilt: Then your version is old :P
20:26:00 <ehird`> GregorR: You load fucking ELF files?
20:26:03 <ehird`> GregorR: What the what.
20:26:10 <Guilt> it's already there
20:26:17 <Guilt> :( damn. someone did my idea
20:26:26 <GregorR> ehird`: Yeah, I didn't want to pay for the definition of MMO files, so I load ELF64 files :P
20:27:07 <Guilt> it says Error: unimplemented instruction
20:27:23 <ehird`> GregorR: So... HOw well does it do gcc-world atm?
20:27:32 <GregorR> Guilt: That's because I haven't implemented that instruction yet :P
20:27:34 <ehird`> You should probably implement a simple console in JS, btw. (Use a table.)
20:27:41 <ehird`> then I/O would be simple
20:27:45 <GregorR> ehird`: I did, does it not show in konqueror?
20:28:06 <GregorR> Oh, yeah, doesn't show in konq.
20:28:10 <ehird`> In the konq I see a black box,
20:28:34 <Guilt> GregorR, put some compatibility jizz in.
20:29:00 <GregorR> ehird`: Ohyeah, I see it. Hm, konq seems to barf out after three instructions :(
20:29:07 <GregorR> ehird`: FFox does it really well, if you have it installed try that.
20:29:10 <ehird`> GregorR: Ok, I'll install firefox :P
20:29:26 <ehird`> (... the form controls! They burn!)
20:29:32 <Guilt> GregorR, does it throw an exception?
20:29:34 <GregorR> I'll have to look at konq though, I tried not to do anything FF-specific :P
20:29:46 <GregorR> Guilt: What, when it fails to implement an operator?
20:29:54 <Sgeo> Why doesn't it work in Konq.. oh you're looking into that
20:29:58 <GregorR> Guilt: Erm, when it fails to run an operator because it hasn't implemented it that is.
20:30:19 <GregorR> Does konqueror have a JS error console?
20:30:33 <Guilt> no but there is a seperate JS console
20:30:43 <Guilt> GregorR, just put alerts and try debugging
20:30:48 <ehird`> GregorR: Now instructions are streeeeeaming
20:30:55 <ehird`> Error! Unimplemented instruction
20:31:28 <ehird`> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/64bitint.js What the fuck.
20:31:53 <GregorR> What, I needed 64-bit ints in 8-bit bins 8-O
20:32:07 <ehird`> Add some sort of javascript interface.
20:32:12 <ehird`> I want to write an AJAX app in MMIX.
20:32:27 <Guilt> ehird`, if it's AJAX
20:32:34 <Guilt> then you can do all your MMIX on the server
20:32:44 <Guilt> which really isn't a JS implementation then
20:32:52 <ehird`> I want to do my client side stuff in C
20:33:12 <GregorR> I just want vim running in JS :P
20:33:49 <ehird`> GregorR: I'm considering writing an editor in D because kate wouldn't indent D properly, incidentally :P
20:34:03 <GregorR> ehird`: Awesome, make sure you scream about it on #d
20:34:04 <Guilt> i want the linux kernel with the 16x PCI express and the SIMD unrolled code running in JS
20:34:17 <Guilt> isn't that leet, bitches? :D
20:34:31 <GregorR> I wonder if there's a MMIX Linux port >_>
20:34:39 <ehird`> GregorR: I have screamed about it on #d actually :p
20:34:45 <Guilt> GregorR, mmixware by knuth
20:34:52 <GregorR> Guilt: That's not Linux, that's mmixware.
20:34:58 <Guilt> it runs on Linux. :)
20:35:01 <ehird`> it was more of the 'god damnit, why aren't there any decent gui toolkits' scream though.
20:35:08 <GregorR> I mean a port of the Linux kernel TO mmix :P
20:35:12 <Guilt> and what do you mean by MMIX linux port?
20:35:25 <GregorR> Linux running /on/ MMIX :P
20:35:30 <Guilt> there is no hardware machine to run it. just the usual stuff..
20:35:34 <Guilt> GregorR, write one.
20:35:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:35:52 -!- puzzlet has joined.
20:35:52 <Guilt> Knuth doesn't have anything regarding peripheral specification, does it?
20:36:04 <Guilt> sorry s/Knuth/MMIX
20:36:11 <Guilt> does it talk about how to handle busses? :)
20:36:19 <GregorR> Pff, you don't need peripherals to run a kernel >_>
20:36:27 <Guilt> but you need to use it
20:36:32 <Guilt> it's not going to run all by itself
20:37:29 <GregorR> Sure it is - I didn't say it was going to be exciting to look at :P]
20:40:11 <Guilt> If you were a chipmaker, would you design MMIX and gift it to DEK?
20:44:37 <GregorR> If I was a chipmaker, they'd be potato.
20:47:37 <ehird`> So, GregorR, what C programs compiled can your emulator run?
20:47:47 <ehird`> int main(void) { return 42; }
20:48:02 <ehird`> What about this: int main(void) { write(0, "x"); }
20:48:17 <GregorR> I actually haven't tested it with anything short of int main() { write(1, "Hello, world!", 14); }
20:48:20 <GregorR> Which is what's running there.
20:49:45 <GregorR> I just wanted to post something before my brain melted :P
20:50:06 <ehird`> I am now going to write the most minimal compiler 'evah'
20:51:09 <ehird`> It will have functions, untyped variables, types of int, string and array, and a few statements (if, else, while, for, return)
20:51:24 <ehird`> So, pretty esoteric to write anything REAL in it. :P
20:51:48 <ehird`> Damnit, I can't call it "Tiny Compilable Language": tcl.
20:52:49 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving").
20:53:16 <GregorR> You do of course realize that a BF->C compiler will be more minimal?
21:03:39 <meme_> i have an idea for a lang
21:05:55 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
21:31:06 -!- Guilt has joined.
21:37:43 <GregorR> Shoot, Konqueror doesn't support Array.concat 8-X
21:39:28 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving").
21:39:49 <GregorR> Oh, never mind, I'm doing it wrong X-P
21:39:55 <GregorR> Wow, konq JS == sloooooooooow
21:43:21 <GregorR> OK, http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html now works on Konqueror
21:43:52 <GregorR> I don't know why the first syntax worked at all :P
21:44:28 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:46:41 <GregorR> Incidentally, I can make it run much faster, but it tends to hang the browser a bit :P
21:54:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:56:16 -!- Guilt has joined.
21:59:32 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:00:26 <GregorR> Oh, I didn't mention, it does run int main() { return 0; } now
22:11:31 -!- meme_ has quit ("Lost terminal").
22:19:00 <pikhq> GregorR: What's this? Actual *work* on C2BF?
22:19:27 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html
22:20:56 * pikhq suspects a MMIX port of Linux would be possible; IIRC, GCC targets MMIX already
22:22:30 <GregorR> GCC does target MMIX already, that's why I'm using it ;)
22:24:17 <pikhq> Hmm. Plof->JS runs Plof->C->MMIX? :p
22:24:50 * ihope_ reads up on Javascript
22:28:22 <ihope_> Hmm. ChatZilla has an /eval command for evaluating JavaScript expressions...
22:29:38 <GregorR> ChatZilla was, in fact, written in JavaScript.
22:30:14 <pikhq> Javascript and XUL. Get it right, Gregor.
22:30:53 <ihope_> Well, that didn't seem to do much.
22:31:06 * pikhq declares that 0/0=1
22:31:23 <ihope_> i=3 will surely do something more.
22:31:28 * pikhq goes on to prove that black is white, and white black.
22:31:49 <ihope_> Ooh, there's a thing called "document".
22:32:06 <ihope_> Now it's back to normal. Bah.
22:36:01 <ihope_> Cool. This tutorial is recommending people to use JavaScript to prevent people from viewing content which has been sent to their browser.
22:38:01 <Sgeo> Ok, there's a college I want to apply to
22:38:13 <Sgeo> But I didn't know if the online form would actually send an email or something
22:38:19 <Sgeo> So I went to the URL that the form goes to
22:38:25 <Sgeo> "The following information has been submitted to our office:"
22:38:31 <Sgeo> Then all the fields, blank
22:38:40 <Sgeo> "An admissions representative will be contacting you shortly."
22:40:01 <pikhq> Sgeo, join me and cherez next year.
22:40:39 <pikhq> cherez is at UMR, and I will be there next year.
22:40:43 -!- AnMaster has quit ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)").
22:40:49 <cherez> (Pikhq is following me to college, and has become quite an evangelist.)
22:40:49 * pikhq just returned from a campus visit. . .
22:41:02 <pikhq> (it's a good college. What can I say?)
22:41:07 * Sgeo needs to stay close to home :/
22:41:33 <pikhq> University of Missouri - Rolla. (soon to be Missouri University of Science & Technology)
22:42:40 <ihope_> Have to stay close to home? Why?
22:43:05 <Sgeo> My dad wants me to
22:44:07 <pikhq> And your dad can do *jack shit* about it. . .
22:45:40 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:45:57 <pikhq> (in my case, it's 'whichever generous souls donate', rather than 'parents'. . .)
22:46:10 <Sgeo> My dad's probably paying..
22:46:44 -!- AnMaster has joined.
22:50:26 <ehird`> (Which in real money is about £0.00000000001 these days)
22:52:22 <pikhq> Could you just donate a pound? That ought to pay for my entire college education. :p
22:52:45 <ihope_> Do you want a pound of feathers or a pound of lead?
22:53:06 <pikhq> ihope_: A Great British Pound, actually.
22:53:29 <ihope_> I'll make sure they're from Great British chickens.
22:53:31 <ehird`> (That's $6465456498498498498498498494894984.
22:53:42 <pikhq> (although I'll take either a pound of feathers or lead if it's signed by the Queen of England, so that it's legal tender)
22:54:15 <ehird`> pikhq: note to self, ask queen for autograph next time i se her
22:54:41 <pikhq> Ask for the text "By order of the Queen of England, this is legal tender for all debts." ;p
22:54:58 <ihope_> I think it'd be fun to have a Queen.
22:56:10 <ehird`> ihope_: Bah, no, it's quite annoying to have 'power' (yeah right) descended by family.
22:56:18 * ehird` wonders what tokens I need
22:56:34 <ihope_> Quite annoying to be a figurehead because one of your parents was one?
22:56:46 <ehird`> ihope_: Quite annoying to have a figurehead because their parents were.
22:56:56 <ehird`> Speaking from the perspective of a citizen.
22:57:21 <ihope_> Well, why can't we elect a Queen, then?
22:57:37 <pikhq> Because then Queen is an inappropriate title.
22:57:39 <ehird`> 'cause then it wouldn't be a queen/king
22:58:11 <ihope_> Queen Except for the Fact that They were Elected?
22:58:30 <ehird`> 'elected useless figurehead'
22:58:59 <ehird`> pikhq: GregorR: you have a chance to force your plof syntax on ltc right now, limited time offer :P
23:00:42 <ehird`> Langugae that is Tiny and Compilable
23:00:55 <ehird`> (Tiny Compilable Language's acronym was taken...)
23:01:49 <ehird`> Just an experiment of mine :P
23:01:49 <ihope_> I guess Tcl may be good.
23:02:06 <ehird`> The idea is: tiny tiny language->lex->parse->compile to Instruction class of some sort->output C
23:02:09 <ihope_> Wait, ltc's syntax is forceable?
23:02:26 <ehird`> With the newfound language-writing skills I will go on to write DZing :P
23:02:41 <ehird`> I'm just saying that pikhq and GregorR can suggest Plof syntax for me to put in :P
23:02:52 <ihope_> Make it look like this: IncAll x = Map (L \f (Inc f)) x
23:03:05 <ehird`> no, that's a lot of work :P
23:03:29 <ihope_> (= (IncAll x) (Map (L \f (Inc f)) x))? :-P
23:04:15 <ehird`> I want something... I dunno.
23:04:50 <pikhq> var IncAll = (x){map((f){f++})};
23:05:50 <pikhq> var IncAll = (x as Collection){ x.map((f){ f++ }) };
23:05:52 <ehird`> hard to parse manually :P
23:06:03 <ehird`> and variables are typeless
23:06:33 <ehird`> var add = {x,y|x+y} <-- I could probably do that. Is that good enough? :P
23:06:48 <ihope_> Maybe instead of (L \f (Inc f)) I should use (\f -> Inc f). :-P
23:07:24 <ihope_> var incAll = {x,something}?
23:07:36 <ehird`> ihope_: what about multiple arguments
23:07:51 <ihope_> Either currying or multiple arguments.
23:09:22 <ehird`> I want multiple arguments
23:09:34 <ehird`> currying... hard when using C :P
23:09:44 <ihope_> Then multiple arguments.
23:10:19 <ehird`> So how would I do that with your syntax?
23:11:06 <ihope_> var incAll = {x|something}
23:11:59 <ehird`> var incAll = {x | x.map({f | f+1})}
23:12:06 <ehird`> var incAll = {x | x.map({f | f+1})};
23:12:32 * pikhq gets bored, tries to curry in Plof
23:12:39 <ehird`> Cancer of the semicolon. :)
23:13:04 <ihope_> Though foo.bar(quux) has never made all that much sense to me, I guess Redivider does have the same sort of thing with bar(quux)[foo].
23:13:12 <ehird`> pikhq: var curry = (f,x){(y){f(x,y)}}
23:13:26 <ehird`> ihope_: Actually, I forgot, no objects
23:13:37 <ehird`> var incAll = {x | map(x, {f | f+1})};
23:13:40 <pikhq> ehird`: I'm not expecting it to take forever. ;)
23:13:53 <ehird`> What tokens do I need...
23:14:27 <ehird`> VAR, ID, EQUALS, LT, GT, PLUS, MINUS, DIVIDE, TIMES, LPAREN, RPAREN, LBRACE, RBRACE, SEMICOLON,
23:14:31 <ihope_> Do you have stuff like f(x): {x = x+1}?
23:14:41 <ehird`> IF, ELSE, ELSEIF, WHILE, FOREACH
23:14:48 <ehird`> ihope_: nope, just variable bindings for now
23:15:28 <ihope_> Do you have any way at all for a function to return multiple things, apart from global variables?
23:15:54 <ehird`> aha! of course, I need more:
23:16:03 <ehird`> LBRACKET, RBRACKET, RETURN
23:17:53 <ehird`> So, that's 22 tokens in all.
23:19:46 <ehird`> How many tokens does plof have? *checks*
23:20:51 <ehird`> OK, in actual fact I have 26
23:21:25 <ehird`> VAR, ID, LPAREN, RPAREN, LBRACE, RBRACE, LBRACKET, RBRACKET, RETURN, COMMA, IF, ELSE, ELSEIF, WHILE, FOREACH, EQ, LT, GT, LTEQ, GTEQ, PLUS, MINUS, TIMES, DIVIDE, MODULO, STRING, NUMBER
23:26:21 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving").
23:32:09 <ehird`> I don't like | as an argument seperator
23:32:35 <ihope_> Separating argument from result?
23:33:35 <ehird`> so what should it be? :P
23:36:46 <ehird`> space wouldn't work well :P
23:36:59 <ehird`> it'd mean EVERY space would be parsed
23:37:11 <ihope_> ASCII EOF, ASCII DEL...
23:37:14 <ehird`> . is kinda not noticable
23:37:22 <ehird`> Sgeo: something i can actually type :p
23:37:28 * Sgeo can type those =P
23:37:57 <ehird`> var incAll = {x -> map(x, {f -> f+1})};
23:37:59 <ihope_> ASCII TAB is very noticeable in some cases :-P
23:38:24 <ehird`> ihope_: Hmm.. People who use emacs defaults would get syntax errors randomly.
23:38:26 <ehird`> This is very appealing to me...
23:40:26 <ehird`> haha, assinging oo to infinity
23:46:45 <ehird`> GregorR: HAY I FOUND BUG IN YOUR LEXER.
23:47:15 <ihope_> im in ur lexer, etc. etc.?
23:56:07 <ehird`> GregorR: If a string contains a newline you don't line++
23:56:17 <ehird`> Haha, my lexer will be weiiiird
23:56:24 <ehird`> Since as soon as it finds a token it gives up,
23:56:37 <ehird`> "varx={x->returnx}" is valid
23:56:53 <ehird`> it's, of course, "var x = {x -> return x}"
00:01:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:09:17 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:15:41 -!- meowfish has joined.
00:30:53 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:32:40 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio.
00:40:16 <ehird`> ircatwork.com has to be the lamest dmoain ever
00:50:52 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone").
00:59:54 <ihope_> Is it IRC at work or IR cat work?
01:00:12 <ihope_> (One fish, two fish, meowfish, moo fish?)
01:00:42 -!- ihope__ has joined.
01:00:51 -!- ihope__ has quit (Client Quit).
01:00:58 <ihope_> What's an IRCAT, I wonder...
01:01:12 <ihope_> Is it an infrared cable-Atlantic trans?
01:01:30 <ihope_> Which, I suppose, is a weird way of saying "infrared trans-Atlantic cable"?
01:01:48 <pikhq> Infrared Red Cable Automatically Terminated
01:02:07 <pikhq> Even less sense. :)
01:03:25 <ihope_> It's clearly an Irradiated Residue Connector/Auxiliary Transmitter.
01:06:30 <ihope_> It functions as an auxiliary transmitter when placed in proximity to an irradiated residue receiver.
02:05:36 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
02:15:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:35:25 <pikhq> Who would be kind enough to join me in proving that 1+1=3?
02:40:34 -!- ihope__ has joined.
02:41:12 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:43:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:16:14 -!- immilinux has joined.
03:17:27 -!- ihope__ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09").
03:18:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:20:00 <pikhq> First, we assume e*e=e^3. :p
03:31:46 <pikhq> immilinux: If e*e=e^3, 1+1 must =3. ;p
03:33:22 <immilinux> oh and in case nobody worked it out, i am immibis, using linux.
03:35:15 -!- immilinux has quit ("Lost terminal").
03:35:36 -!- immilinux has joined.
03:35:58 * immilinux hit alt-f4 as he was playing around with hotkeys in irssi. D'oh!
03:36:16 <immilinux> oh and does anyone know of a way to make an Xboo GBA multiboot cable out of paperclips?
03:45:31 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: It obviously doesn't.
03:45:49 <pikhq> I was making the point that if you assume e*e=e^3, then 1+1=3.
03:46:33 <pikhq> No, I got started on this train of thought by asking for proofs that 1+1=3. :p
03:47:27 <RodgerTheGreat> "Reductio ad absurdum, which Euclid loved so much, is one of a mathematician's finest weapons. It is a far finer gambit than any chess gambit: a chess player may offer the sacrifice of a pawn or even a piece, but a mathematician offers the game."
03:50:00 <pikhq> Of course, if you assume 1+1=3, then 1+1=3. :p
04:02:56 <immilinux> pikhq: it certainly is if 1 == 1.5.
04:13:06 <immilinux> but how do i make a gba Xboo multiboot cable out of paperclips?
04:13:32 <immilinux> i also have some wires, resistors and capacitors of various sizes, and a few other bits and pieces if they're needed.
04:16:50 <immilinux> my main problem is how to keep the paperclips/wires/whatever stuck to the pins.
04:17:10 <immilinux> and i DO NOT have a gba multiplayer cable.
04:44:34 <immilinux> just paperclips, wires, and some other bits and pieces.
04:55:10 <bsmntbombdood> well i guess some lesser window managers immitate windows keybindings
04:55:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:01:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
05:05:10 <pikhq> Not-ratpoison is a lesser window manager.
05:14:51 <immilinux> and its the most active - and therefore most likely one of the most popular - window managers/desktop environments around.
05:16:35 <immilinux> also does anyone know how to make cpuspeed slow down my cpu when the computer gets really hot?
05:17:58 -!- meowfish has quit ("CGI:IRC (Session timeout)").
05:18:45 * immilinux turns down the cpu to 1.06 ghz and the temperature drops 20 degrees almost instantly.
05:29:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
06:01:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
06:10:01 <immilinux> and you mention it here in response to what?
06:11:20 <bsmntbombdood> <bsmntbombdood> anyway, i'm completely happy with my current [window manager] one
06:28:31 <immilinux> i ran several commands in the interval between when i said that and when you responded, and it scrolled off the top of the terminal emulator.
06:29:07 <immilinux> and i didn't work out how to scroll the message list until just after i wrote the previous message
06:32:08 -!- immibis has joined.
06:32:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:32:26 -!- puzzlet has joined.
07:23:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
07:32:22 -!- oklofok has joined.
07:33:38 <oklofok> i'm not sure this can be implemented without an AI, but... it's pretty great anyway
07:37:46 <oklofok> typed in apt-get install intercal for fun, there was one :O
07:42:59 <oklofok> hmm, how do i list downloaded packages?
07:44:48 <oklofok> immibis: what happened to toBogE? i miss it
07:46:26 <oklofok> hmm, class is over, cya ->
07:46:44 -!- oklofok has quit ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)").
07:52:12 <GregorR> MMIX's register pushing and popping is SO EFFING COMPLICATED
07:53:15 <GregorR> Try 1: Failure. Try 2: Failure. Try 3: Failure. WTF, am I incapable of reading pseudocode?
07:57:02 <immibis> oklofok: remind me tomorrow
07:57:38 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If you can't laugh at yourself, mak).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:19:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
08:19:55 -!- immilinux has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:57:50 -!- Tritonio has joined.
13:02:06 -!- ehird` has joined.
13:02:24 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:03:12 -!- ehird` has joined.
13:15:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:16:01 -!- puzzlet has joined.
13:28:44 -!- faxathisia has joined.
13:28:56 <faxathisia> http://eigenratios.blogspot.com/2006_08_31_archive.html
13:55:12 <ehird`> is a monospace font good for reading text
13:55:15 <ehird`> like on irc, you need a monospaced font
13:55:21 <ehird`> but a terminal/code one is just yuck
13:55:40 <ehird`> hmm yes luxi mono is quite non-monospaced like while still being monospaced
13:56:36 <ehird`> I guess what I'm saying is that most monospaced fonts are just typewriter-esque
13:56:47 <ehird`> and I want a monospaced font for *reading text*
14:04:56 -!- faxathisia has quit.
14:22:22 -!- Slereah- has joined.
14:23:14 <ehird`> http://www.radicaleye.com/lifepage/patterns/unitcell/ucdesc.html recursive life
14:23:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
14:27:58 <ehird`> what is the simplest language that 1. is not TC 2. can be self-interpreted (eval doesn't count)
14:28:04 <ehird`> does one even exist? i think so
14:33:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:35:39 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:40:33 -!- jix has joined.
15:24:52 -!- faxathisia has joined.
15:43:43 <faxathisia> It's meant to be a reversible language but it's also some database thing\
15:44:56 <AnMaster> thought it was some language that was called TC
15:46:15 <AnMaster> ehird`, well while malbolge is turing complete, why not write a malbolge interpreter in malbolge?
15:47:15 * faxathisia wonders if there is any sub-turing language capable of 'interesting' calculation within which a self interpreter can be written
16:08:19 <GregorR> faxathisia: Yes, there is.
16:08:41 <GregorR> faxathisia: Mind you, I have no proof or evidence, but I'm confident that there is ;)
16:12:45 -!- faxathisia_ has joined.
16:13:34 <GregorR> ehird`: Simplest language that is not TC and can be self-interpreted: The operation 'x' outputs the character 'x'
16:14:48 <GregorR> So stupidlang x.sl < x.sl > x2.sl ; cmp x.sl x2.sl ; $? == 0
16:15:36 -!- faxathisia has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:16:52 -!- faxathisia_ has changed nick to faxathisia.
16:24:18 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:26:11 <AnMaster> well, broad definition then IMO ;)
16:27:02 <GregorR> First you'll need to make a definition for "language"
16:31:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:31:35 -!- jix has joined.
16:32:28 <ehird`> GregorR: OK, let's say that doesn't count :P
16:33:01 <ehird`> [14:27] <ehird`> what is the simplest language that 1. is not TC 2. can be self-interpreted (eval doesn't count)
16:33:01 <ehird`> [14:28] <ehird`> does one even exist? i think so
16:33:10 <ehird`> without counting cat and similar.
16:38:45 <Slereah-> Maybe he refered to the "The operation 'x' outputs the character 'x'"
16:42:15 <faxathisia> The operation "RUN" reads a single 'x' outputs the character 'x'
16:42:32 <faxathisia> emm.. it does have to be called 'x' doesn't it
16:43:25 <GregorR> I seem to have a proclivity for writing scripts that cause Firefox to freeze.
16:47:02 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:48:58 <faxathisia> at any rate GregorR proved it's possible
16:49:13 <faxathisia> but is there a more interesting or capable language with the property?
17:04:51 <oerjan> well, as far as i understand the impossibility of interpreting many non-turing complete languages in themselves follows from what happens when you translate the proof of the halting problem to them
17:10:19 <oerjan> basically if the programs in the language always halt, and there is an interpreter which can run any program (still halting), and you have enough ways of composing programs to do the diagonalization the proof needs, then you end up with a contradiction
17:10:40 <oerjan> so there would be several ways out
17:11:00 <ehird`> subset-of(non-tc, always halt)
17:11:01 <oerjan> it could have non-halting programs without being tc
17:11:12 <ehird`> there are non-TC languages with programs that do not halt
17:11:30 <GregorR> ehird`: I thought you were being colloquial with your "!=" :P
17:11:35 <oerjan> ehird`: 0x29A on the wiki is one, i proved
17:11:36 <faxathisia> "composing programs to do the diagonalization the proof needs" - Which proof?
17:12:00 <oerjan> and Subtle Cough too, sort of
17:12:00 <faxathisia> I never saw a diagonalization argument in anything relating to halting
17:12:22 <ehird`> subtle cough is, rather useless ;P
17:12:38 <oerjan> faxathisia: the proof of the halting problem is a diagonalization proof, indeed
17:12:42 <ehird`> I've always wondered if there's a variation on subtle cough with one more func (That isn't the iota combinator ;)) that is TC
17:13:08 <ehird`> hmm, oerjan is 0x29a not TC?
17:13:11 <ehird`> there's a bf->it translation
17:13:13 <oerjan> ehird`: well I isn't that function, i recall :)
17:13:21 <oerjan> ehird`: oh, i meant the functional subset
17:13:37 <ehird`> oerjan: Well, i is turing complete by itself
17:14:09 <oerjan> it's easy to add to Subtle Cough but gives nothing else, iirc
17:14:51 <ehird`> and *iX is also useless
17:15:35 <oerjan> back to the ways out: (2) a language could be too simple to allow composition of programs for diagonalization
17:16:14 <oerjan> hm, i guess that's about it
17:16:47 <oerjan> i suppose GregorR's example is (2)
17:17:57 <oerjan> what about regular expression languages?
17:18:48 <oerjan> without perly extensions, they would probably be too simple too, by the chomsky hierarchy
17:19:27 <faxathisia> you would try to match <self interpreting regex> against "a+b:aaaaaaaaab" or something?
17:19:59 <oerjan> it probably won't have an interpreter
17:20:30 <faxathisia> maybe there are some new operators to add which make it possible
17:21:09 <ehird`> regexps can't match regexps
17:21:16 <ehird`> case in point: balanced things of any sort.
17:21:28 <ehird`> and if you can't PARSE regexps, you can't RUN them
17:27:45 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:36:23 -!- ehird` has quit (Excess Flood).
17:36:38 -!- ehird` has joined.
18:11:43 <jix> but repeated application of regexps could interpret regexps
18:14:54 <jix> no but repeated string serach replacement is turing complete
18:15:08 <jix> so repeated regexp application is a superset of that and thus turing complete too
18:22:39 <ehird`> my regexp language supports this
18:23:01 <ehird`> syntax: either a\nb\nc or anything (including a\nb)
18:23:11 <ehird`> then run the regexp a with replacement b on c
18:23:14 <ehird`> and evaluate that as code
18:23:29 <ehird`> if the latter, well i don't know, but the first spec said if last-char == "." output the rest
18:23:44 <ehird`> I conjecture that it is turing complete.
18:23:58 <ehird`> Certainly, a BCT conversion would be tivial
18:32:58 <ehird`> first person to write BCT->thatlang converter wins a prize of ... something
18:33:02 <ehird`> probably useless ePoints
18:55:53 -!- cpressey has joined.
19:12:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:31:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:09:17 -!- clog has joined.
20:09:17 -!- clog has joined.
20:20:02 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:29:49 <oklopol> the game of life unit cell is that big... i thought it was like 10x10 :D
20:36:09 <ehird`> oklopol: gregorr said cat a while back
20:36:37 <oklopol> i read that, yeah, wasn't supposed to be funny though
20:54:35 -!- faxathisia has quit.
20:55:49 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:03:19 -!- oerjan has quit ("Gooed knight").
21:22:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
21:23:51 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:53:16 <dbc> >>>>++++++++++>>+>+>+[[->[-]++++++[<++++++++>-]>>>>]<<<<<[<[>+>+<<-]>.<<<<
21:53:16 <dbc> <]>.>>+[-[<<<<<[+<<<<<]>>>>>>>[[-]>[<<+>+>-]<[>+<-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+
21:53:16 <dbc> <-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>>>>+>+<<<<<<-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]>[<+>-]+>>>>>]<<<<
21:53:16 <dbc> <[<<<<<]>>[>>>>>]++[-<<<<<]>>>>>>-]+>>>>>]<[>++<-]<<<<[<[>+<-]<<<<]>>>>>>>]
21:53:37 <dbc> (factorials)
21:55:44 <ehird`> now make it 3 lines so I can include "(factorials)" at the end of my sig ;)
22:12:42 <dbc> Feel free :P
22:16:42 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:19:02 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:24:31 -!- cpressey has joined.
22:29:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:33:03 -!- Tritonio has joined.
22:50:21 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:09:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:17:13 -!- Kahdloc has joined.
23:18:54 -!- Kahdloc has left (?).
23:19:43 <ehird`> you pong'd, bsmntbombdood.
23:30:45 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
23:38:47 <ehird`> i got bored so i tried to write a ridiculously minimal yet usable chat protocol
23:38:57 <ehird`> the spec is 117 lines in total, including whitespace etc
23:39:03 <ehird`> and most of it is basically trivial
23:40:12 <ehird`> sure, sure, but it's not anything like irc
23:40:28 <ehird`> and barring a few things is pretty much usable
23:40:35 <ehird`> (as a replcaement to irc)
23:46:39 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:34:13 -!- frontiersman has joined.
00:59:59 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone").
02:05:10 -!- EgoBot has joined.
02:05:19 -!- GregorR has joined.
02:11:16 -!- cpressey has joined.
02:22:45 -!- calamari has joined.
02:56:55 <cpressey> pretty good. we're in chicago now!
02:58:53 * pikhq was not aware that calamari had a family. . . XD
03:01:39 <pikhq> No, he stole them from "Do Not Put The Baby".
03:03:49 -!- faxathisia has joined.
03:05:48 <calamari> somebody mailed me about writing a compiler for bitchanger.. I felt pretty bad because I didn't check my yahoo mail for like 2 months and didn't know about it
03:06:43 <cpressey> bsmntbombdood: welcome to the world of the Post Correspondence Problem
03:07:47 <cpressey> calamari: do you have your bachelor's yet? i've completed the requirements for mine, but they won't send it to me until december...
03:08:03 <bsmntbombdood> i can't be assed to read the wikipedia page on that...
03:08:11 <calamari> cpressey: yeah, I graduated in May
03:08:29 <calamari> working at IBM here in Tucson, AZ
03:09:45 <calamari> and the Eso OS? Already exists.. it's called z/OS (formerly OS/390, OS/370, ...)
03:10:43 <cpressey> hehe. wow, that thing is still around...
03:10:58 <cpressey> old systems never die, they just get rebranded
03:11:09 <calamari> I have an entire bookcase full of manuals and that's a tiny amount of the available books on it
03:11:34 <calamari> well most of the major comparies and banks rely on it
03:21:12 <cpressey> anyway, i'm on dialup, so i should probably try to keep the phone line open...
03:37:54 -!- immibis has joined.
03:39:26 <immibis> oops wrong channel for that "oops wrong channel"
03:39:29 * immibis remembers that someone requested toBogE
03:39:54 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined.
03:40:07 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toBogE.
03:43:08 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:48:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:01:14 * immibis starts a gba development channel and a nds development channel
04:08:56 <pikhq> I suspect that it's already been done.
04:12:00 <immibis> #gbadev is an inactive channel with no members that's still registered with chanserv - there seem to be a lot of them - so i took ##gbadev and ##ndsdev.
04:14:25 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html Hello, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD! 8-D
04:23:23 -!- toBogE has quit (Connection reset by peer).
04:24:05 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined.
04:24:18 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toBogE.
04:24:23 <GregorR> What the bork? How do you not have syscall 6?
04:25:05 <pikhq> I'm not getting the syscall, either.
04:25:12 * pikhq is running on Konqueror
04:26:23 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq and I are, amusingly, using the same HTML engine
04:26:54 <pikhq> Technically, Rodger would be running a *closely related* engine. :p
04:27:19 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: You run KHTML instead of Webkit?
04:28:33 <pikhq> Actually, from what I know of Webkit, it's had quite a few changes since it forked from KHTML. . .
04:39:31 <toBogE> Finished channel list, receiving user list for each channel
04:43:03 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:44:13 <GregorR> OK, that was a bitch to fix.
04:44:49 <pikhq> That firmly kicks ass.
04:45:30 <GregorR> Mind you, it was intermittent before ;)
04:46:14 <GregorR> Damn it, it's still intermittent >_O
04:47:09 <GregorR> No, now it's not intermittent ... now it always fails :P
04:48:21 * pikhq should write NNIX sometime. . .
05:05:57 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html <-- should finally reliably work with Konqueror
05:08:00 <RodgerTheGreat> so, is that huge mass of binary data just a hello world, or is that libraries and stuff as well?
05:08:17 <GregorR> It's the C program included at the bottom there.
05:08:32 <pikhq> I suspect that's GCCmmix being inefficient, particularly with libraries. ;)
05:09:00 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: It's also a valid ELF, thus the size. ;)
05:09:16 <pikhq> (well, part of the size)
05:09:18 <GregorR> And it has libc in there :P
05:09:42 <GregorR> Hence my statement "compiled statically" >_>
05:09:53 <pikhq> (I suspect you could frob the linker into not including unused functions. . .)
05:10:15 <GregorR> And yes, I wrote an ELF64 loader in JavaScript ... I roooool.
05:12:39 <pikhq> Well, of course you do.
05:12:55 <pikhq> (now, implement an x86 emulator in Javascript. :p)
05:15:39 <GregorR> Unfortunately, it is excruciatingly slow :P
05:15:49 <GregorR> Waiting for printf() to actually get to the printf part was intolerable.
05:35:29 <immibis> gregorr: it's busy at the moment, entering information into its factoid database
05:35:41 <GregorR> immibis: I was referring to JSMMIX :P
05:35:46 <immibis> it gets a list of channels from irc, makes factoids for them, then gets a list of users from each channel.
05:40:55 <toBogE> Finished channel list, receiving user list for each channel
05:43:52 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:46:42 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined.
05:46:47 <immibis> crashed by ConcurrentModificationException.
05:47:00 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toBogE.
07:32:56 <oklopol> when cpresset and calamari had their little smalltalk there, i thought calamari had a monologue xD
07:33:21 <oklopol> similar nicks should be banned instantly
07:37:39 <GregorR> Anybody have an algorithm for division given a fixed number of cells?
07:37:54 <GregorR> (In this case bytes, eight of them)
07:38:39 <oklopol> i just know the sucky one they teach at school
07:38:56 <GregorR> If it's better than subtracting in a loop, I'll take it :P
07:39:12 <oklopol> well, if you don't know it, i doubt you passed 3rd grade.
07:39:39 <GregorR> I guess that's the obvious solution ;P
07:42:00 <oklopol> teh division algo is nice with binary... i think... i implemented it once
07:42:20 <oklopol> and that was like 3 years ago, so i don't actually remember anything.
07:42:29 <oklopol> what are you writing it for?
07:54:18 <immibis> GregorR: subtract in a loop
07:54:24 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b).
07:54:32 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:18:50 -!- jix has joined.
09:28:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
10:00:53 -!- faxathisia has quit.
10:19:57 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
11:05:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:12:15 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:29:14 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:45:20 -!- Tritonio has joined.
12:48:42 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
14:08:56 -!- Keymaker has joined.
14:12:32 <Keymaker> wow, congrats ais523!! i can't even remember if i've heard of it before, or if i've even congratulated already, but here goes... yeah, good memory...
15:06:46 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:07:31 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
15:26:49 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:49:28 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined.
16:07:20 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:14:23 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:19:46 -!- jix has joined.
16:21:32 -!- n0nsense has joined.
16:22:13 -!- n0nsense has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]").
16:23:51 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:23:59 -!- jix has joined.
16:56:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:06:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
17:13:56 -!- bobo has joined.
17:32:12 <oklopol> a very small turing machine proven universal
17:36:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
17:47:05 <oklopol> my power plug is broken... and 15 minutes of batteries... this is farewell, guys.
17:55:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
18:02:43 -!- calamari has joined.
18:05:14 -!- oklofok has joined.
18:05:50 <oklofok> hmm, my death would've been more dramatic if i hadn't already been on another computer before ping timeout.
18:06:14 <Slereah-> Don't worry, we'll all grieve.
18:10:13 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:13:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:16:30 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
18:22:37 -!- oerjan has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!.
18:23:32 <oerjan> (ircbrowse seems dead every time i try and cmeme is not even here)
18:27:12 -!- bobo has left (?).
18:28:22 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
18:49:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:50:55 -!- oklokok has joined.
18:51:48 <oklofok> oerjan: where have you been?
18:52:42 <oklofok> also, is it too hacky to make an asm tc by having half of the memory be divided in 256-byte chunks you can use like tape cells?
18:54:15 <oklofok> so that if the memory were, let's say 8 256-byte chunks, then there would be 256*4 static memory chunks, and 4 tapes with 256 bytes in each cell
18:54:22 <oerjan> oh, just trying to avoid those crazy killer finns
18:54:58 <oklofok> ah, sorry about all the killing
18:55:20 <oklofok> it's just inavoidable given our taste of blood
18:56:59 <oklofok> i may have meant thirst, but goddamn my hands are hurting
19:01:48 <oerjan> well any paging system for having more memory than addresses is hacky, as i saw someone mentioned the other day.
19:02:31 <oklokok> i'm trying to find the least hacky one
19:03:32 <oklokok> the problem with that is, you kinda lose modularity if you need a much more complicated system when the input data gets bigger
19:04:15 <oerjan> also with a tape you lose any resemblance of direct access
19:04:36 <oklokok> another way to get infinitely extendable storage is a bignum space somewhere in the memory
19:06:07 <oklokok> the problem with that is one of the things i wanted in my system was a simple cycle counting scheme, so that you could always know how much an operation takes
19:06:43 <oklokok> the problem is, with bignums you either lose O(1) arithmetic or there is no sense counting cycles.
19:06:50 <oklokok> asdf i can't type with this keyboards
19:07:24 <oklokok> no sense, since bignum arithmetic is tc
19:07:50 <oklokok> well, then again i could have separate arithmetic for the bignum space or something... god this is complicated :)
19:07:56 <oklokok> someone offer me a simple solution!
19:08:52 <oerjan> bignum arithmetic tc - i don't think it gives _that_ much other than unboundedness
19:10:21 <oklokok> i don't know what i mean...
19:10:31 <oerjan> well subleq with bignums is tc
19:10:36 <oerjan> but that includes branching
19:11:01 <oerjan> and that includes looping
19:11:34 <oklokok> true... i didn't actually mean the arithmetic itself is tc even though i did *say* it
19:12:01 <oklokok> what i meant was basically, that if you can do arithmetic with arbitrarily big numbers in a constant time... it's kinda not asmy...
19:12:51 <oklokok> also where did you read doing that kind of paging is hacky?
19:12:54 <oerjan> i conjecture if it is tc then it's kinda not asmy
19:13:14 <oerjan> i'm not sure maybe here
19:13:23 <oklokok> at least addition can't be tc...
19:13:35 <oklokok> and i'm pretty sure division isn't either :D
19:13:43 <oerjan> there was some discussion on accessing > 4G on 32 bit machines
19:14:40 <oklokok> division always halts, so it's definately not tc
19:14:56 <oerjan> and apparently if each process only accesses less, you can do it relatively well, but if a process alone requires more you get address problems
19:15:40 <oerjan> if you want to use 32 bit addressing
19:16:11 <oklokok> i mean, why does it not work if a single process uses more than 4gt
19:16:17 <oerjan> you cannot just use virtual memory to fake it if a process alone uses more
19:16:44 <oklokok> i'll just believe you, i think it's easier
19:16:56 <oklokok> also, now where's that easy solution ;)
19:16:59 <oerjan> er, because 2^32 bytes = 4Gb
19:17:37 <oklokok> well naturally you can't access more than 4gb if you use direct access
19:19:15 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
19:19:34 <fizzie> I just can't take the gibibytes seriously.
19:19:39 <oerjan> the i indicates powers of 1024 rather than 1000
19:20:01 <oklokok> yeah, i guessed it does that, just didn't actually know
19:20:20 <oerjan> hm, actually GiB, b is bits i guess
19:21:28 <oklokok> i'll just make it non tc and wait for a divine intervention
19:46:03 -!- calamari has joined.
19:46:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
19:53:42 <oklokok> why make a compiler for x86 when you can first make an asm, then compile to that
19:54:00 <oklokok> asm might technically mean an assembly, as in a mnemonics system... i mean a bytecode system
19:59:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
20:01:15 <oerjan> you forgot an m in "schmerms", i believe
20:01:58 <oklokok> hard to think when your arms hurt
20:02:39 <oklokok> (my hands are not hurting, sorry for giving incorrect information earlier)
20:05:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:05:58 <oerjan> jkudst ttypoe wuitth yuouir fffeettt
20:07:03 <oklokok> yes, just like you can use two mouses simultaneously if you have 2 hands
20:07:30 <oerjan> there might be software to do that
20:09:59 <bsmntbombdood> two mouses and two keyboards, you could have focus in two different windows and be typing two different things at the same time
20:10:53 <oklokok> with 3d, 2 mouses is a waste
20:11:10 <oklokok> wonder if it's regular with a computer mouse? :P
20:12:35 <oerjan> two mice and their spice, leaving in separate hice
20:16:20 <oklokok> why did my arms start hurting just when my computer broke, i could do with one of those, but both simultaneosly kinda take away my buzz
20:17:27 <oerjan> it's an OMEN. you need to get much more fresh air.
20:17:54 <oklokok> i have been out 5 times today.
20:40:21 <calamari> bsmntbombdood: thanks for the video :)
20:41:08 <oklokok> heh, reminds of me in an argument.
20:50:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:12:17 -!- Jontte has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
21:17:56 -!- Jontte has joined.
21:46:18 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:49:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("schmit").
22:14:23 -!- ihope has joined.
22:33:22 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:36:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:40:04 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:14:02 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:18:03 <oklokok> well, the part i had planned sofar is ready anyway
23:19:01 <oklokok> so basically arithmetic, if-null-skip-next-instruction and setting values (= also outputting)
23:19:19 <oklokok> made a program that counts from 5 to 1
23:19:43 <oklokok> but it's so simple i'm not gonna show it xD
23:19:52 <oklokok> i'll do something real tomorrow
23:24:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:40:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
23:44:02 -!- ehird` has joined.
23:44:12 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:45:01 -!- ehird` has joined.
00:01:26 <GregorR> I don't know why printf doesn't work :(
00:01:44 <GregorR> I think it has something to do with C's IO buffering.
00:01:57 <oklokok> hey don't worry, i don't know either
00:03:19 <oklokok> so what was it again you were cooking=
00:03:29 <GregorR> MMIX simulator in JavaScript.
00:03:54 <oklokok> hmm, and mmix was an risc or smth?
00:04:06 <oklokok> or something everyone should know.
00:04:32 <GregorR> Everyone Knuthiest (a member of the Knuth order of the Knuth religion) should know :P
00:05:36 <ehird`> I should create a CrazyOldComputerSciencePerson group
00:05:39 <ehird`> Knuth and Stallman could join
00:05:56 <ehird`> Knuth would look away in disguist at Stallman's hygene while Stallman would rant on about freedom
00:06:22 <ehird`> then knuth would hit stallman over the head with a micro-optimized assembly language sorting algorithm
00:06:47 <ehird`> and thus would speak Stallman:
00:06:57 <ehird`> "Wow. I didn't realise there were people with more of a clue than me."
00:08:45 <oklokok> GregorR: and err... why printf? is that mmix?
00:09:40 <GregorR> But a program using printf, compiled to MMIX, isn't working.
00:10:19 <oklokok> is the compilation correct, or does the actuall mmix code run incorrectly
00:10:26 <oklokok> both should be easy to trace :|
00:13:36 <ehird`> the compilation is by gcc
00:13:46 <ehird`> gcc basically, never is wrong
00:14:06 <ehird`> GregorR is working on an MMIX emulator
00:14:32 <ehird`> GregorR: ... Question: Does gcc-mmix compile gcc?
00:14:41 <ehird`> GregorR: I think you can see where I'm taking this.
00:14:50 <GregorR> ehird`: Donno, but don't think I haven't thought that way ;)
00:14:52 <ehird`> SELF-HOSTING JSMMIX DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT
00:15:03 <ehird`> You could develop it entirely in your browser in a shell :D
00:15:09 <ehird`> and compile stuf fand test it
00:17:32 <ehird`> if you give it some kind of XMLHttpRequest bindings
00:17:37 <ehird`> and a simple upload/get backend
00:17:41 <ehird`> then you could upload the new version from it
00:18:03 <ehird`> You could even implement an ANSI-compliant terminal emulator, and edit the JS code with vi in it
00:18:30 <ehird`> Vi running under a CPU emulator in JS would just be crazy :-)
00:18:38 <ehird`> Then you must do emacs, thus having another turing complete layer!
00:19:34 <GregorR> vim was actually my original goal.
00:19:48 <GregorR> I wanted a web-based editor that was really, truly vim.
00:19:52 <GregorR> Not vim-like, but actually vim.
00:19:53 <oklokok> how many turing machines does it take to change a light bulb?
00:20:06 <ehird`> oklokok: 1, but you don't know if it'll ever finish or not
00:21:07 <oklokok> i'm pretty sure that's simple enough that you can prove it correct
00:21:48 <oklokok> my answer was "trivially one given a way to encode 'changing a light bulb' into the program states"
00:21:59 <oklokok> but i'm not sure if that works
00:22:09 <oklokok> since it kinda doesn't... do anything.
00:22:25 <oklokok> these are the questions that keep me awake at night
00:22:34 <oklokok> and also the fact i drank too much caffeine
00:22:56 <ehird`> that's not funny, though
00:23:20 <oklokok> my idea was to be funny by ruining the joke.
00:23:49 <oklokok> requires less wit, you see
00:24:18 <oklokok> ehird`: can i see the spec for that language of yours
00:24:31 <oklokok> jumping to -1 is exciting!
00:25:11 <ehird`> (The reason for that abbreviation has never been adequately explained.)
00:25:11 <ehird`> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wapr
00:25:23 <ehird`> "CMD stack -> newstack"
00:25:24 <oklokok> i'm making a generic assembly of some sort...
00:25:59 <oklokok> thought i'd take that as an example assembly to make for it, since it's pretty simple
00:26:15 <GregorR> oklokok: Generic assembly? You mean C?
00:26:17 <oklokok> and also because i know the creator of it
00:26:50 <oklokok> perhaps i should respond to jokes with a smiley or something if i laugh at them D:
00:27:12 <ehird`> we just used :-) to indicate a joke
00:27:16 <ehird`> and "Haha" to indicate laughs
00:27:18 <GregorR> ARRRRGH, why doesn't this work *sobs*
00:27:23 <ehird`> (OK, so I wasn't alive in those days but ;))
00:28:10 <oklokok> it was that 2 meter long line noise?
00:28:22 <GregorR> The problem is, I believe, in the buffering.
00:28:24 <ehird`> TWO METE RLONG LINE NOISE
00:28:41 <GregorR> ehird`: Look at the source of http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html
00:30:19 <oklokok> ehird`: 1. spec no see on eso page! 2. blahbot, dead, is? why so, also, can run wapr, but... omg, how?
00:30:35 <ehird`> oklokok: um, its the spec
00:30:39 <ehird`> oklokok: the monospaced block
00:31:40 <ehird`> it specifies the whole, afaik TC, language
00:31:42 <ehird`> I shall revive blahbot.
00:31:43 <oklokok> yarrrrr, now, that's not the asm language you were doing... some time ago? :\
00:31:59 <ehird`> (Yeah, I like weird names)
00:32:00 <ehird`> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael
00:32:37 <oklokok> yeaps, that's what i was looking for
00:32:49 <oklokok> hmm, 4 hours till i need to wake up
00:33:32 <ehird`> now where is blahbot...
00:34:09 <oklokok> you could just be a character in my dream
00:34:48 <ehird`> Also: You can't read in dreams.,
00:35:00 <oklokok> often i have characters in my dreams i have known for ages, like, i have memories of past incidents with them etc.
00:35:05 <oklokok> you could be something like that.
00:35:13 <ehird`> It is, in fact, completely impossible to read in dreams. So unless you're using text to speech...
00:35:17 <oklokok> i actually often irc in my dreams.
00:35:28 <ehird`> yes, but can you READ and UNDERSTAND everything they're saying?
00:35:34 <ehird`> your brain just supplies some sort of meaning
00:35:42 <oklokok> i've had normal boring conversations in my dreams :|
00:35:54 <ehird`> is this a normal boring conversation? ;)
00:36:12 <ehird`> Your dream couldn't remmeber THAT :p
00:36:43 <ehird`> why isn't your client responding
00:36:47 <oklokok> my client doesn't show it...
00:37:08 <ehird`> [00:37] [Whois] oklokok is n=ville@194.251.103.33 (ville salo)
00:37:19 <ehird`> I'm pretty sure your dream would not remember your ident
00:37:25 <oklokok> unfortunately i remember that.
00:37:40 <ehird`> OK, how about you just go to bed
00:38:20 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:38:58 <oklokok> the boring conversation is usually the type, "i had the weirdest dream just now", "boring" was just something to characterize non programming related
00:39:15 <oklokok> often when i have a weird dream, i also have a few dreams where i tell everyone about it
00:39:44 <ehird`> where the hell is blahbot, oklokok
00:40:45 -!- blahbot` has joined.
00:41:25 <oklokok> speaking of dreams, last night i had a dream laurel and hardy were having sex while running towards a shelf full of plates, which then fell on top of them killing them both
00:42:50 <ehird`> and its a broken lambda calculus interp
00:43:14 <ehird`> singleton.send :define_method, :putc, proc {|c| c = c[0] unless c.is_a? Numeric; if c == ?\n; write(@buf); @buf = ""; else @buf << c; end}
00:43:18 <ehird`> i was so fucking evil back then
00:43:52 <ehird`> in ruby {|x| ...} is a block
00:44:18 <oklokok> oh, why don't you need quotes?
00:44:18 <ehird`> ?CHAR == ascii number of CHAR
00:44:28 <ehird`> so ?\n == ascii number of newline [it supports escapes]
00:45:42 <ehird`> @x means 'instance variable x'
00:46:21 <oklokok> hmm instance variable of what?
00:46:39 <ehird`> singleton.send :define_method, :putc, X # this is evil magic
00:46:46 <ehird`> singleton is an object
00:46:50 <ehird`> the singleton object of a class
00:46:53 <ehird`> its basically its metaclass
00:47:00 <ehird`> its an object that is each instnace of the class
00:49:40 <oklokok> i should remember... i've programmed on that
00:49:56 <ehird`> Ruby is the only useful esoteric language.
00:50:00 <oklokok> remembering is for computers
00:51:08 <oklokok> someday i'll actually learn the techniques of my memory training book...
00:51:22 <blahbot`> NameError: undefined local variable or method `x' for #<Blahbot:0xb7cca1ac>
00:51:26 <blahbot`> NoMethodError: undefined method `x=' for #<Blahbot:0xb7cca1ac>
00:51:44 <ehird`> %eval @x[0] = 2 @x[5] = 3
00:51:44 <blahbot`> SyntaxError: (eval):1: syntax error, unexpected tIVAR, expecting $end
00:51:47 <ehird`> %eval @x[0] = 2; @x[5] = 3
00:52:10 <ehird`> i was expecting a sparse array ;)
00:52:36 <ehird`> method_missing(:write, *args)
00:52:38 <ehird`> that makes no fucking sense
00:52:44 <ehird`> why do i have a method that calls method_missing?
00:53:00 <ehird`> past elliott is crazy :|
00:53:51 <blahbot`> NameError: undefined local variable or method `thrad' for #<Blahbot:0xb7cca1ac>
00:53:52 <blahbot`> NameError: undefined local variable or method `thread' for #<Blahbot:0xb7cca1ac>
00:54:05 <ehird`> %eval Thread.current[:stdout]
00:55:04 <ehird`> oklokok: I set $stdout (a global) to a class which is a 100% proxy (including as you can see pretty-printing) of Thread.current[:stdout]
00:55:17 <ehird`> %eval Thread.current[:stderr] = nil; $stderr
00:55:25 <ehird`> %eval Thread.current[:stderr] = nil; $stderr.puts("hi")
00:55:32 <ehird`> and somehow it goes to console
00:56:16 <oklokok> isn't that the same prob bsmntbombdood had?
01:00:07 <blahbot`> ./bot.rb:289: warning: getc is obsolete; use STDIN.getc instead
01:00:19 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:00:30 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:08:47 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:09:20 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:09:27 <blahbot`> undefined method `empty' for nil:NilClass
01:09:27 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:10:56 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:11:00 <blahbot`> undefined method `empty' for []:Array
01:11:00 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:11:20 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:11:29 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:11:59 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:12:40 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:12:51 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:13:01 <blahbot`> undefined method `chr' for "hi":String
01:13:01 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:13:06 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
01:13:25 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:13:39 <blahbot`> undefined method `chr' for "h":String
01:13:39 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:14:10 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:14:37 <ehird`> %eval Thread.current[:stdin]
01:14:41 <ehird`> %eval Thread.current[:stdin].getc
01:14:44 <blahbot`> 0. eval Thread.current[:stdin].getc
01:15:03 <ehird`> %eval while c = Thread.current[:stdin].getc; c; end
01:15:05 <blahbot`> 0. eval while c = Thread.current[:stdin].getc; c; end
01:15:18 <blahbot`> NoMethodError: undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass
01:15:48 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:15:58 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:16:00 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:16:04 -!- blahbot` has quit (Excess Flood).
01:16:25 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:16:26 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:17:04 <ehird`> %eval while true; puts Thread.current[:_input]; sleep 2; end
01:17:09 <blahbot`> 0. eval while true; puts Thread.current[:_input]; sleep 2; end
01:17:09 <blahbot`> 1. eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:17:27 <ehird`> %eval while true; p Thread.current[:_input]; sleep 2; end
01:17:51 <blahbot`> NameError: undefined local variable or method `x' for #<Blahbot:0xb7cd5868>
01:18:05 <ehird`> %eval putc "x"; putc "y"
01:18:38 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:18:49 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:18:51 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:19:29 <blahbot`> 0. eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:19:31 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:19:41 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:19:46 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:19:54 <ehird`> JASDOIJASDOiJASDHASDKJGASDJHSGDJKASGDJSDghj
01:20:23 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:20:36 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:20:39 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:20:43 <blahbot`> NoMethodError: private method `p' called for #<IO:0xb7d1cf60>
01:21:46 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:21:56 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:21:57 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:22:36 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:22:46 -!- blahbot` has joined.
01:22:51 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end
01:23:14 <blahbot`> => #<Method: Blahbot(Kernel)#putc>
01:23:22 <blahbot`> ArgumentError: (eval):1:in `putc': wrong number of arguments (0 for 1)
01:23:48 <ehird`> %eval whle c = $stdin.getc; $stdout.putc c; end
01:23:49 <blahbot`> SyntaxError: (eval):1: syntax error, unexpected kEND, expecting $end
01:23:54 <ehird`> %eval while c = $stdin.getc; $stdout.putc c; end
01:25:18 <ehird`> I'd better be off now.
01:25:27 <ehird`> I have to be up at 7 and it's 1 :P
01:25:40 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone").
01:25:45 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:31:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
01:32:21 -!- AnMaster has joined.
02:16:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:16:44 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:16:51 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:21:45 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:47:04 -!- immibis has joined.
02:53:56 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html <-- somebody else debug for me :P
03:04:12 <immibis> what does "save.c:(.text+0xb68): relocation truncated to fit: R_ARM_THM_CALL against `cart_removed_handler'" mean and how do i fix it
03:16:57 -!- Tritonio has joined.
03:33:50 <immibis> Two friends are sitting in a bar: /exit and /quit. /exit walks away. Who is left?
03:36:41 -!- pikhq has joined.
04:05:39 <GregorR> ARRRRGH, I swear every instruction is correct >_<
04:06:01 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye...").
04:07:46 <immibis> puzzlet: joining #web2,0 will join #web2 and #0
04:11:21 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Life without danger is a waste of o).
04:43:52 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
04:44:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:44:41 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
04:44:51 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:49:42 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:18:48 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
05:32:08 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:34:50 -!- Slereah- has joined.
07:36:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:36:09 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
11:14:52 -!- linuxfan has joined.
11:23:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:23:41 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:05:16 -!- Sgeo has joined.
13:06:26 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:01:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:13:19 -!- Sgeo has joined.
14:25:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:25:37 -!- puzzlet has joined.
14:45:54 -!- blob has joined.
14:50:05 -!- blob has left (?).
14:50:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:50:59 -!- blob has joined.
14:51:22 -!- blob1 has joined.
14:51:56 -!- blob1 has left (?).
14:51:57 -!- blob has left (?).
14:54:04 -!- Sgeo has joined.
15:22:39 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:35:06 -!- jix has joined.
15:53:57 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:55:52 -!- AnMaster has joined.
16:02:19 -!- linuxfan has quit ("leaving").
16:12:49 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
16:27:00 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:32:00 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:32:08 -!- jix has joined.
16:57:10 -!- vux has joined.
16:57:35 -!- vux has quit (Client Quit).
18:12:51 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:22:28 -!- Tritonio has joined.
18:30:18 <Tritonio> what's the best way to change the layout of a keyboard? I want to switch some keys. Do I have to recompile any drivers or something?
18:30:45 <Tritonio> but I care about windows too...
18:31:16 <GregorR> KDE and GNOME both have keyboard layout options in their respective control panels
18:31:46 <Tritonio> and how can I create a custom layout?
18:32:08 <GregorR> Ohhh - well that I don't know :)
18:32:55 <Tritonio> anyway. i'll search for files named like ubuntu's already existing layouts. And then i'll try to edit a duplicate of one of them
18:35:18 <GregorR> Glad I could be not particularly helpful :P
18:36:39 <Tritonio> well you told me about the keyboard layouts. I had completely forgotten them... ;-)
18:42:31 <RodgerTheGreat> MacOS Classic had an awesome facility for modifying/creating keyboard layouts
18:43:12 <RodgerTheGreat> crack your System file open in resedit, double-click the appropriate resource, and you have a graphical WYSIWYG layout editor
18:48:15 <GregorR> MacOS classic also has cooperative multitasking :P
18:48:59 <GregorR> No, it isn't, I just like to make fun of it 8-D
18:49:17 <GregorR> Now somebody tell me why http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html doesn't work :P
18:49:34 <GregorR> I try to stick to the script *shrugs*
18:50:12 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:50:43 <GregorR> Whoah, somebody else on both #d and #esoteric
18:50:52 <GregorR> I don't know whether this bodes well for #d or not :P
18:52:40 <RodgerTheGreat> it took some convincing to get me past my gut feeling that it'd be as much a disaster as C++, but it seems very nifty
19:05:03 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/show/
19:05:45 <oerjan> did he do it in just six days?
19:05:47 <RodgerTheGreat> "God's word offers HOPE. And as we all know, hope is the foundation to any rigorous scientific hypothesis. Wait, what?
19:13:06 -!- ehird` has joined.
19:18:10 <GregorR> Thanks, blood red lighting!
19:18:28 <ehird`> thanks, 1.1.2-jailbreakme-breaking iphone update!
19:24:10 <GregorR> It's extremely important to prevent 3rd party innovation.
19:24:23 <ehird`> they didn't break jailbreakme.
19:24:31 <ehird`> They fixed the TIFF exploit that jailbreakme uses.
19:24:37 <ehird`> Which is good, I guess, but you know what their motive was.
19:24:56 <ehird`> (Amusing aside: jailbreakme actually patches up the tiff exploit after using it to do its thing)
19:26:37 <GregorR> The question is, can that exploit be used maliciously? That is, could it be exploited by going to a web site, or would you have to voluntarily invoke it?
19:27:04 <ehird`> as soon as the tiff loads it happens
19:27:08 <ehird`> so yeah it is very exploitable
19:27:22 <ehird`> (jailbreakme when viewed on an iphone just adds a link to /files/y.tif)
19:28:10 <RodgerTheGreat> Apple has announced they will be releasing an iPhone SDK
19:28:16 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: i'm well aware
19:28:55 <RodgerTheGreat> and even if they can't make it illegal to modify stuff you buy, they are in no way obligated to help you
19:28:57 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: now can I get, right now, a terminal, SSH, an irc client, a better home that supports scrolling of the list, etc. with it?
19:29:18 <ehird`> and indeed, RodgerTheGreat. You also can't make it illegal for me to complain :)
19:29:40 <ehird`> well unless the iphone is a minority group or something
19:29:43 <RodgerTheGreat> *if* they had those features, I would seriously consider getting one. I do not own an iPhone because I do not currently find it useful.
19:29:55 <ehird`> Installer.app has all of that
19:30:01 <ehird`> the terminal even runs irssi
19:30:12 <ehird`> also, there's a barely-functional doom port :P
19:30:22 <ehird`> (no sound or controllers, so you can basically watch the demo)
19:30:26 <RodgerTheGreat> what is with people always porting doom of all things?
19:30:36 <ehird`> it's frickin' hilarious
19:30:49 <ehird`> Doom ported to NetBSD toaster!
19:31:03 <ehird`> "Does it run Doom?" is also infinitely funnier than "Does it run Linux?"
19:31:14 <ehird`> I actually played Doom on my 4g, non-colour iPod once
19:32:04 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: oh yes, and there's a python/ruby/perl/tcl/etc port
19:32:34 <RodgerTheGreat> or *GASP* an original game for these platforms instead of a mostly-pointless port of something you can play on a 386
19:33:00 <RodgerTheGreat> let me know when they have LUA, Java, or a decent BASIC for it
19:33:17 <ehird`> Why would you want java :|
19:33:36 <ehird`> pff you basically already have FORTH
19:34:02 <ehird`> http://www.modmyiphone.com/nativeapps/the-list/ a big list of native apps in Installer.app
19:34:28 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: for example,
19:35:20 <RodgerTheGreat> haha, this is fucking brilliant. "According to god's word, thorns came after Adam's sin, about six thousand years ago, not millions of years ago. Since we have discovered thorns in the fossil record, along with dinosaurs and other plants and animals, they all must have lived at the same time as humans, after Adam's sin."
19:35:32 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: hahah wow
19:35:43 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/show/
19:36:09 <ehird`> it's worth mentioning that reddit works great with iPhone Safari
19:36:15 <RodgerTheGreat> specifically, http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/1969184895/
19:36:16 <ehird`> the interface relaly is done right
19:46:11 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: also, it can't brick your iphone
19:46:17 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: the worst it can do is require a restore from itunes
19:49:15 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:21:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:39:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
20:44:04 -!- Tritonio has joined.
20:46:30 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined.
20:52:42 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:59:17 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:08:40 -!- cmeme has joined.
21:13:35 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:13:55 -!- cmeme has joined.
21:13:58 <oerjan> it's not entirely gone anyhow...
21:15:46 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:48:12 -!- ehird` has joined.
22:12:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
23:15:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:16:16 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:53:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:53:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:37:52 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:41:57 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:41:59 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:46:01 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye...").
00:58:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:58:06 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:07:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:38:09 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
01:40:00 -!- immibis has joined.
01:40:10 <pikhq> No new Dresden Codak. D:
02:07:45 -!- Slereah_ has quit.
02:29:03 <bsmntbombdood> you could make a 3d "joystick" with 5 pressure sensors mounted in front of your mouth
02:30:02 <bsmntbombdood> one in front, one on top, one on bottom, one on the right, one on the left
02:31:51 <pikhq> http://www.dresdencodak.com
02:41:36 <Sgeo> Ok, that comic is hard to follow
02:41:42 <pikhq> It's the content of the comic that's more worthwhile.
02:41:49 <Sgeo> It's difficult to follow the path of time in each one
02:42:13 <pikhq> . . . Okay, so he's a bit excessively creative with frame layout.
02:42:54 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: I wanna stab the bad guys.
02:43:33 * pikhq pulls out a switchblade
02:43:40 <pikhq> I think we should stab bad guys. . .
02:43:48 <bsmntbombdood> i wish i didn't have a penis, so i could be a riot prrl
02:44:17 <pikhq> Oh, if Sukoshi were here. . .
02:47:46 <pikhq> If you swoon for girls, you won't get any. :p
02:47:57 <pikhq> (you'll be too busy being unconscious)
03:05:12 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Depression is merely anger without ).
03:14:00 -!- ihope has quit ("Lost terminal").
03:19:25 <pikhq> If Rodger agrees with me, then I *must* be right. :p
03:26:13 <RodgerTheGreat_> pikhq: well, I think my opinions hold some weight when it comes to comics
03:27:06 <bsmntbombdood> RodgerTheGreat_: i don't think he was being sarcastic
03:27:08 <pikhq> In all seriousness, I must agree. . . At least as far as I've seen, you've got great taste in comics.
03:29:34 <RodgerTheGreat_> I also really like Minus: http://www.kiwisbybeat.com/minus62.html
03:33:02 <bsmntbombdood> how come batman doesn't have a wiener-slot in his costume?
04:10:44 <pikhq> And it links to SMBC, DC, etc. I *love* Minus. :)
04:11:06 <pikhq> . . . Oh. No wonder. It's another Koala Wallop strip.
04:11:24 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Saturday Morning Breakfast Comics. http://www.smbc-comics.com/
04:18:26 <pikhq> True, but I only check those once every month or so.
04:19:49 <pikhq> (come on, DC: you don't have a day job any more. :p)
04:20:08 <pikhq> I don't think I have, but the name sounds familiar.
04:20:17 <RodgerTheGreat_> I will be extremely pleased if Aaron actually starts making strips on a regular basis
04:20:39 <pikhq> In theory, he was going to post one. . . Yesterday.
04:20:51 <pikhq> Why does his sense of time have to be nonlinear? :p
04:27:55 <pikhq> "Sonorous" starts with an 'S'.
04:44:44 <pikhq> This is a good xkcd series.
04:45:58 <pikhq> (if this were on the week of Thanksgiving, it would officially be the best week of my life)
04:46:48 <pikhq> I *like* Thanksgiving.
04:47:14 <pikhq> (particularly when it seems to be just grandma coming. . . 4 science fiction fans under one roof == fun. :p)
04:48:04 <pikhq> Annoyance of family or something?
04:58:57 <RodgerTheGreat_> http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20070925.gif <- brilliant
04:59:03 * oklokok is very proud for actually waking up in time
04:59:21 <Sgeo> oklofok, for xkcd?
05:00:13 <Sgeo> Woohoo new comic
05:02:31 <pikhq> Now, Stallman *has* a katana.
05:02:39 <pikhq> I propose we get him to reenact this. ;)
05:03:53 <pikhq> We can get him another.
05:05:18 <Sgeo> It normally comes every mon/wed/fri at midnight est
05:05:24 <Sgeo> This week it comes every weekday
05:06:06 <oklokok> Sgeo: well, mostly for school, i'm kinda screwed if i miss one more class.
05:06:35 <oklokok> hmm, perhaps i should do some showerizoring ->
05:33:11 <oklokok> is there something on the nets i can get the time from ?
05:33:25 <oklokok> all my clocks are set to pretty much randoms
07:45:46 -!- clog has joined.
07:45:46 -!- clog has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:32:48 -!- Tritonio has joined.
08:41:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
08:58:02 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:07:31 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:34:16 <ais523> oklokok: if you want to know the current time, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time?action=purge and click on 'OK'
12:34:27 <ais523> that updates the example on the page to the current time in UTC automatically
12:40:11 -!- AnMaster_ has joined.
12:49:56 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.).
12:49:58 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster.
13:04:01 -!- jix has joined.
13:36:17 -!- ais523 has quit.
14:44:20 -!- Lottuk has joined.
14:52:06 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:52:54 <ehird`> wow, #esoteric-blah died bad
14:56:44 <ehird`> those two lines together = avant-garde
15:10:58 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:25:57 -!- Lottuk has quit ("and that, as they say, is that").
15:40:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:09:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:18:01 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:18:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:19:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:31:46 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
16:32:09 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:32:19 -!- jix has joined.
16:37:42 -!- Tritonio has joined.
17:13:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:13:40 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
17:21:39 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:22:43 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:43:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:34:34 <RodgerTheGreat_> http://www.streetfables.com/vandv.html <- this is a really cool story
19:07:04 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:13:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:30:31 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving.").
19:30:53 -!- cherez has joined.
19:31:41 -!- cherez has quit (Client Quit).
19:31:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:31:53 -!- cherez has joined.
19:48:16 -!- elliott has joined.
19:48:33 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:48:48 -!- ehird` has joined.
21:03:55 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:12:21 -!- oklofok has quit ("Lost terminal").
21:22:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:25:36 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:40:00 <Slereah> Ideal for awkward conversation!
21:43:18 <ehird`> With them, you can afford ringtones.
21:44:13 <ehird`> I am weeping in the sour solitude of my toast.
21:46:02 -!- Tritonio has joined.
21:47:42 <oerjan> I hear it goes well with chili sauce.
21:49:52 <ehird`> The wind is talking, oh my!
21:53:48 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:50 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:50 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:50 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:51 -!- Slereah has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- oerjan has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- frontiersman has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- cherez has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:54 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:54 -!- tokigun has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:54 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:54 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:54 -!- ehird` has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:55 -!- Jontte has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:55 -!- oklokok has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:55 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:53:56 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
21:59:53 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:59:53 -!- cherez has joined.
21:59:53 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:59:53 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:59:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
21:59:53 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:59:53 -!- Slereah has joined.
21:59:53 -!- cmeme has joined.
21:59:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined.
21:59:53 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:59:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
21:59:53 -!- GregorR has joined.
21:59:53 -!- frontiersman has joined.
21:59:53 -!- sekhmet has joined.
21:59:53 -!- tokigun has joined.
21:59:53 -!- zuzu has joined.
21:59:53 -!- Overand has joined.
21:59:53 -!- SimonRC has joined.
21:59:53 -!- dbc has joined.
21:59:53 -!- johnk_ has joined.
21:59:53 -!- mtve has joined.
22:00:08 -!- AnMaster has joined.
22:00:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("Because of the gargoyles in my ear").
22:00:13 -!- ehird` has joined.
22:00:13 -!- Jontte has joined.
22:00:13 -!- oklokok has joined.
22:00:13 -!- helios24 has joined.
22:00:13 -!- fizzie has joined.
22:00:31 <ehird`> Indeed, now the logs will not see;
22:00:36 <ehird`> My discussions of past, as time went by;
22:00:40 <ehird`> Through the great netsplit.
22:01:42 <ehird`> So is this some sort of bizzare impromptu play?
22:02:13 <ehird`> Oh, shit. I just broke the FORTH wall.
22:02:19 <ehird`> Now the system won't boot. Guess that's over then.
22:03:31 <AnMaster> forth? the programming language?
22:04:27 <ehird`> http://rafb.net/p/Ex6TPc55.html Impromptu play!
22:04:55 -!- SimonRC_ has joined.
22:08:14 -!- SimonRC has quit (Connection timed out).
22:14:25 -!- ehird2 has joined.
22:15:06 <ehird2> hellp from iphone running ssh connected to my vps running irssi
22:15:54 <bsmntbombdood> does the iphone have internets when there is no wifi?
22:18:37 <ehird2> thpougj occasionally thr display lags
22:18:59 <ehird2> thpougj occasionally thr display lags
22:20:30 <ehird2> ofc this iphone is jailbroken
22:21:06 -!- ehird2 has quit ("Lost terminal").
22:25:17 -!- ehird has joined.
22:25:41 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit).
22:31:06 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
22:50:58 <ehird`> (n=ehird@elliotthird.org)
22:51:07 <ehird`> i ought to do some crazy stuff to get my hostname as elliotthird.org
22:51:18 * Sgeo whores ##epic-fail
00:00:33 <pikhq> And this one's epic. :)
00:02:59 -!- Slereah has quit.
00:12:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:22:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:28:52 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
00:29:52 -!- Tritonio has joined.
00:35:53 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:35:58 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:43:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
01:01:45 <Tritonio> does anybody knows if there are any keyboards that allow you to change their mappings in the hardware level? :-|
01:15:15 <RodgerTheGreat> are you allowed to use a soldering iron and/or JTag interface in this process?
01:28:06 <Tritonio> RodgerTheGreat, I hope I don't go to these extents... Something simpler like the Optimus keyboard but without it's price would be better... ;-)
01:31:31 <Tritonio> i might also need to change the mapping after some days... anyway. maybe i'll stick to changing the layouts that the OS uses.
01:33:47 <RodgerTheGreat> I was thinking gut the keyboard and swap the controller chip for a microcontroller, and then create your own controller
01:52:40 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_.
01:52:44 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo.
02:04:46 -!- Tritonio has changed nick to Tritonio_.
02:38:21 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:07:51 -!- fiftyeight has joined.
03:23:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:41:59 -!- fiftyeight has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:48:28 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
04:01:05 -!- Eulogy has joined.
04:04:50 -!- Pixy has joined.
04:06:29 <Eulogy> bsmntbombdood: i saw an irc log where you had been building a brainscrambler interpreter and couldn't find programs for it. well, i'm the one who came up with brainscrambler -- did it for the hell of it and didn't think that anyone but me and a few friends had seen it. figured you might find this interesting: http://daeken.com/media/bs.txt . that's the "official" interpreter, and the only one other than yours that i know exists haha
04:08:29 * pikhq is slightly impressed.
04:08:48 <pikhq> If I knew Brainscrambler, it'd probably be a bit more than slightly.
04:13:22 <Eulogy> heh-heh, i'm just amazed anyone else did anything with it ;)
04:13:39 <pikhq> Know the feeling. ;p
04:46:08 -!- Sgeo has joined.
05:13:55 <Sgeo> Almost forgot about new xkcd!
05:16:21 <pikhq> Which is sheer awesome.
05:23:47 -!- oklokok has quit ("for the need to encumber").
06:26:22 <Eulogy> bsmntbombdood: well, i decided on 3 because it was either include an instruction for swapping the top two elements of the stack or use 3
06:26:33 <Eulogy> decided to go for fewer instructions instead of fewer stacks
06:28:58 <Eulogy> hmm, that's a good point. i guess it would be turing complete even without the ability to swap the stacks. for some reason, i hadn't even thought of it at the time
07:40:51 -!- Slereah has joined.
07:41:45 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:09:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
09:14:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:47:57 -!- jix has joined.
12:49:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:57:58 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:59:41 -!- Slereah- has joined.
13:29:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:29:25 -!- Slereah has joined.
14:37:58 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
14:46:39 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:51:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:52:07 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
14:54:13 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:58:56 -!- tokigun has joined.
15:02:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:28:21 -!- elliott has joined.
15:29:06 -!- elliott has changed nick to ehird`.
16:02:56 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:08:54 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:32:19 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:32:29 -!- jix has joined.
17:18:38 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
17:48:13 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
18:15:04 -!- faxathisia has joined.
18:17:29 <faxathisia> I guess I'll write a minesweeper solver :/
18:34:19 <GregorR> OH NOES! Here I thought Minesweeper was a game requiring strategy, intellect and super-TC problem-solving skills D-8
18:34:51 <faxathisia> I think you gotta have an infinite board to need TC skills :p
18:35:20 <oerjan> although clairvoyance would certainly help
18:35:44 <ehird`> GregorR: Well, it is NP-complete :P
18:35:57 <GregorR> Is it? Well, that's something anyway.
18:36:07 <oerjan> actually an infinite board should make it easy if there are finitely many bombs
18:36:27 <oerjan> just make the first click far enough off
18:36:32 <faxathisia> There are nice pics of the logic gates in http://for.mat.bham.ac.uk/R.W.Kaye/minesw/ordmsw.htm
18:36:38 <ehird`> oerjan: if the mines are infinitely spread out that falls down
18:36:48 <ehird`> sure, you have 0 chance of hitting a mine, but it's still POSSIBLE! :)
18:37:02 <ehird`> faxathisia: Yeah, I like those
18:37:11 <oerjan> ehird`: it's always possible
18:37:36 <oerjan> even if you don't hit one, there might still be trouble in the finite part remaining
18:38:32 <ehird`> I want 26-dimensional Minesweeper. :|
18:38:59 <GregorR> ehird`: Planning on fighting a guerrilla war in transdimensional space?
18:39:26 <Slereah_> Aren't landmines forbidden by transdimensional law anyway?
18:39:55 <ehird`> Slereah_: pff, like that'll stop me
18:40:10 <GregorR> They're forbidden by law, but this is WAR, PEOPLE!
18:40:24 <ehird`> GregorR: I'd hack the code to command poly-soldiers
18:40:36 <ehird`> I can kill trans-dimensional people from the comfort of my OS!
18:41:07 <Slereah_> Well, most transdimensional people on my computer are tentacled beasts anyway.
18:41:17 <Slereah_> Also that bearded mister Spock.
18:44:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:49:49 <GregorR> Why isn't I/O buffering working on JSMMIX :'(
18:49:57 <GregorR> I'll bet it's something about pushing and popping into functions ...
19:02:34 <ehird`> why don't you use JS's call stack?
19:08:14 <GregorR> ... JSMMIX does not compile MMIX to JS.
19:11:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("Reboot").
19:20:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:34:13 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:34:48 <ehird`> GregorR: just an idea.
19:35:10 <GregorR> ehird`: Go read how PUSH and POP work in MMIX, then tell me that :P
19:35:28 <GregorR> Suffice to say that the register windows are more complicated than that.
19:44:34 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:51:10 -!- RedDak has joined.
19:53:13 -!- faxathisia has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:40:01 -!- Slereah_ has quit.
20:51:18 -!- Slereah has joined.
21:43:51 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving.").
21:44:25 -!- PonderS has joined.
22:14:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:14:06 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:14:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:32:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Fru Ibsens ripsbusker og andre buskvekster").
22:38:34 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
22:56:27 <bsmntbombdood> people talk about highly-differentiable monospace fonts for programming in
22:56:41 <bsmntbombdood> why not just create you own alphabet that's differentiable and use that?
22:56:52 <ehird`> but of course, it was entirely unreadable and shitty
22:56:59 <ehird`> reason: you know the latin alphabet *really fucking well*
23:06:43 -!- oklopol_ has joined.
23:32:20 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol.
23:46:25 <oklopol> ...popcorn is awesome and no one understands that?
23:58:20 <oklopol> i see, i've had that sometimes
00:02:34 <CakeProphet> I thought you meant... somehow make the popcorn itself...
00:06:53 <oklopol> popcorn is made of magic and wonder
00:15:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:15:35 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:32:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
01:10:01 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:52:42 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa").
03:09:04 <GregorR> If the many-worlds hypothesis of quantum physics is correct, then there is a universe where (e.g.) all qubits in quantum-indeterminant states have always resolved to 1, and more generally all quantum experiments have resolved to predictable states. The scientists in this universe would naturally conclude that the universe is non-probabilistic, and they would in fact be correct. We of course consider that to be a low-probability corne
03:09:04 <GregorR> r case. The paradox: How can we reasonably say that /we/ are not in that corner case? It seems to me like the many-worlds hypothesis makes the probabilities meaningless.
03:10:23 <Slereah> Well, then again, we have observed the probabilities.
03:10:30 <Slereah> We must be in the lucky universe!
03:10:42 <Slereah> Either that, or the interpretation is false.
03:11:31 <GregorR> Arguably, there are infinite universes with some predictable consistency resembling probabilities, but utterly different ones. The most obvious example is the universe where all of the probabilities are precisely the inverse of ours.
03:12:36 <GregorR> There are also plenty of universes where it's switched around randomly, but there are those which are just as probabilistically-consistent as ours.
03:12:44 <Slereah> If the probabilites were inverse at all time, by the time it reaches our epoch, it would be so different that "inverse" doesn't have any meaning!
03:13:23 <GregorR> Slereah: That doesn't matter, the universe doesn't even have to be inhabited or inhabitable to exist :)
03:13:23 <pikhq> It seems to me that, if the many-worlds hypothesis is correct, one can just obtain enough random digits for a string to perform string operations, and destroy the universe if wrong. :p
03:13:24 <Slereah> I'm not even sure what "inverse probability" means in the context, since some probabilities are continuous.
03:13:44 <Slereah> It's not just spins up and down.
03:14:05 <Slereah> Unless you only refer to those.
03:14:38 <GregorR> We can simplify the problem by e.g. only talking about qubits, but I don't see any reason it couldn't be generalized, it's too complicated for an IRC discussion ^^
03:14:55 <Slereah> Well, most computation are for me!
03:15:12 <Slereah> But since I'm a physics student, I can still discuss such matters!
03:15:32 <GregorR> You're a physics student? Awesome, does my weird little rant make any sense? :P
03:15:42 <pikhq> I'm a *high school* student, so I shouldn't be discussing such matters.
03:15:47 <pikhq> (not that it's stopped me yet)
03:16:31 <Slereah> Hell, I'd throw you the stone if I didn't do the same thing back in high school.
03:17:35 <pikhq> Did you also laugh at how some people seemed to be so academically backwards in high school?
03:19:22 <Slereah> The really dumb people are usually filtered before.
03:19:23 <pikhq> Hmm. . . You may have gone to a better school than I'm at.
03:19:50 * pikhq notes that some of the seniors are learning *fractions* this year.
03:19:53 <Slereah> I'm not even in the same country!
03:19:53 <GregorR> My brother's class had <50% graduating.
03:20:16 <pikhq> Damned French, with your better public education. :p
03:20:38 * pikhq at least assumes the .fr TLD is for France
03:21:58 <GregorR> I always used to like the many worlds hypothesis, because I like the thought that the apparent collapse of quantum states is simply the entanglement of the matter and energy that define us with other stuff. That way there's no ordained "observer." But this semiparadox could be a deal-breaker >_>
03:22:19 <Slereah> I'm trying to find a witty comeback, but I just can't find another fr region.
03:22:21 <pikhq> Unless you declare a new hypothesis.
03:22:45 <pikhq> The Paradox Hypothesis: everything is a paradox.
03:22:47 <Slereah> I never really cared much about the probabilites.
03:22:50 <pikhq> Slereah: Frankenstein?
03:22:57 <pikhq> Not much of a place, but. . .
03:23:00 <Slereah> I just take the universe as it comes.
03:23:09 <GregorR> Well, yeah, it could simply lead to the conclusion that quantum mechanics is not, in fact, probabilistic.
03:23:18 <Slereah> Well, there's French Polynesia.
03:23:36 <Slereah> But if it isn't, I'm not that bothered.
03:23:44 <pikhq> Hmm. Gregor, what started you on this?
03:23:49 <pikhq> Quantum brainfuck again?
03:23:58 <Slereah> The many world hypothesis probably stem from a deep sense of wrongness of probabilities.
03:24:07 <Slereah> and not from some bigger idea.
03:24:19 <Slereah> But well, if they can find a way to prove it, kudos.
03:24:37 <GregorR> If it's correct, it can't be proved: That's the paradox :P
03:26:17 <pikhq> Or the derivative of x^2 is x^2?
03:26:32 <Slereah> Well, those are mathematics.
03:26:41 <Slereah> You can make a formal system out of 'em.
03:26:50 <pikhq> As a guy going into computer science & mathematics, I care about mathematics a lot. :P
03:26:58 <Slereah> Although for some reason, you can either say that the axiom of choice is true, or not!
03:27:11 <pikhq> (hmm. . . Axiomatic system that allows for f(x)=x^2 and f'(x)=x^2? Tempting.)
03:27:13 <Slereah> Or the continuum hypothesis.
03:27:52 * pikhq wishes oerjan were here to give suggestions
03:28:57 <Slereah> Math is just full of strange things that were somehow proved.
03:30:14 <pikhq> d/dx(e^x)=e^x being a good example.
03:30:46 <Slereah> Well, there's stranger things out there.
03:30:48 <pikhq> Or even integral(f'(x)*dx)=f(x)+C.
03:31:41 <Slereah> Like that power-of-prime-number order groups are commutatives :O
03:46:12 <GregorR> As in, all groups with an order that's a power of a prime number are commutative?
03:46:27 <Slereah> If I recall correctly, yes.
03:46:38 <GregorR> That makes my brain hurt a bit.
04:03:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
04:13:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:51:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:51:57 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:34:49 -!- jgannon has joined.
05:43:04 <bsmntbombdood> <GregorR> If the many-worlds hypothesis of quantum physics is correct, then there is a universe where (e.g.) all qubits in quantum-indeterminant states have always resolved to 1, and more generally all quantum experiments have resolved to predictable states. The scientists in this universe would naturally conclude that the universe is non-
05:43:45 <bsmntbombdood> just because all _past_ states resolved to one doesn't effect the probability of the next one
05:44:14 <pikhq> Good answer, bsmntbombdood.
05:48:38 <bsmntbombdood> i didn't read enough to see if it had already been discussed
06:01:02 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Of course they don't.
06:01:21 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: But there will be, in the future, a universe that continued down that path.
06:01:48 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: I'm viewing that as sort of a continuum for convenience. Yes, it continues to split ad infinitum, but there will always be a universe with the stated properties.
06:02:16 <GregorR> Simultaneous != nondeterministic.
06:02:51 <GregorR> And for the people whose consciousness continued through the path that 100% consistently chose a 1 for every qubit, the only reasonable conclusion would be that it's deterministic.
06:03:06 <bsmntbombdood> that universe splits from the one the observer is in
06:03:41 <GregorR> By the many-worlds hypothesis, the observer splits (the observer is entangled into the state)
06:04:50 <GregorR> The point being that there is an observer, after performing rigorous trials, who must conclude that there is no nondeterminism.
06:05:22 <GregorR> If you had just checked the value of a billion qubits, and every one came up 1, what would you think?
06:06:14 <bsmntbombdood> that my universe is just as unlikely as one whose qubits didn't have a pattern i could recognize
06:06:31 <GregorR> That's presuming you already understand quantum mechanics.
06:06:52 <GregorR> If the people who had the opportunity to discover all of this in the first place saw completely consistent results, they would not have discovered quantum state.
06:40:36 <GregorR> It was stuuuuuuuuuuupid X_X
06:41:00 <GregorR> When storing a byte, wyde (2 bytes) or tetrabyte (4 bytes) in memory, I was first clearing /8/ bytes X_X
07:43:54 <GregorR> THE BAD: It takes about 10 seconds to printf.
07:49:44 -!- grey_ has joined.
07:49:46 <GregorR> THE UGLY: printf("%d", foo) doesn't work >_>
07:51:58 <grey_> Hey there, please print "I am new to IRP and not ashamed of it."
07:53:08 -!- grey_ has quit (Client Quit).
07:54:05 -!- greyerg has joined.
07:54:59 <greyerg> could anybody print "I am new to IRP and not ashamed of it."?
07:56:30 -!- greyerg has quit (Client Quit).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:23 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html // now with 100% more printf 8-D
08:00:45 <GregorR> It's not as slow as I thought it was, that was my experimental (and now abandoned :P ) I/O
08:07:00 -!- daleko has joined.
08:13:20 -!- daleko has quit ("Leaving").
08:38:00 <GregorR> printf("%d", foo) // still doesn't work
08:39:03 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:46:55 <GregorR> Argh, pushing through these push/pop logs = PITA extreme ^^
08:49:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:03:13 <GregorR> Wow, malloc thinks that my heap is at 0x0000000000000000 ...
09:23:13 <GregorR> JaaavaScript is sooooooo faaaaaast, woopidoopidoo, ...
10:43:13 -!- oerjan has joined.
11:13:39 -!- jix has joined.
11:17:23 <oerjan> i recall someone mentioning that the haskell type system doesn't give full unification
11:18:20 <oerjan> darn, i join #haskell for the first time in days and my _first_ message gets snapped up by Mr. Wong
11:27:33 <oerjan> Slereah: [from Wikipedia] Nor need a p-group be abelian; the dihedral group Dih_4 of order 8 is a non-abelian 2-group. However, every group of order p^2 is abelian.
11:30:04 <oerjan> (that was a "no" to "power-of-prime-number order groups are commutatives", btw)
13:01:49 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
13:41:27 -!- ehird` has joined.
13:48:37 -!- PonderS has quit ("Leaving").
14:29:44 <Slereah> oerjan : Well, I'm no group theory buff.
14:29:53 <Slereah> But I remembered something like that.
14:34:46 <oerjan> maybe fields? every finite field has a prime power number of elements.
14:35:11 <Slereah> Well, as said, I do physics.
14:35:23 <Slereah> The only groups we do re rotation groups!
15:04:33 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner").
15:10:18 <ehird`> GregorR: Holy fuck. You got hello world working.
15:10:25 <ehird`> GregorR: Does malloc work?
15:14:01 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:14:57 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
15:41:56 -!- Overand has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:42:17 -!- Overand has joined.
15:44:54 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal").
16:03:52 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:23:46 -!- Pixy has left (?).
16:24:37 -!- boily has joined.
16:32:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:32:41 -!- jix has joined.
16:56:57 -!- boily has quit ("WeeChat 0.2.6").
17:47:15 <ehird`> http://neugierig.org/software/c-repl/ this is actually really useful
17:55:44 <pikhq> GregorR: I assume some of the syscalls are broken. ;)
17:59:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:59:46 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
18:03:12 <ehird`> pikhq: Lok at how it works.
18:03:16 <ehird`> pikhq: It's crazy dlopen stuff.
18:03:31 <ehird`> But damn, you could do anything with it.
18:03:40 <ehird`> And i'm using it now to test low-level stuff. Awesome.
18:05:41 <pikhq> And true brilliance.
18:06:07 * pikhq feels his brain break on a C repl
18:06:15 <ehird`> "The approach is surprisingly simple: for each line of code you enter, we compile a shared object in the background. If the compilation succeeds, the object is loaded into a child process via dlopen(). If the child process segfaults, we know that the code was bad and so we can "rewind" by replaying all n-1 steps. Printing variables is handled by attaching gdb to the child process."
18:06:22 <ehird`> It's worth noting that apart from child.c, the thing's WRITTEN IN RUBY
18:06:38 <pikhq> It deserves a rewrite in something sane.
18:06:44 * pikhq brings out PEBBLE. :p
18:06:53 <ehird`> Bah, Ruby is pretty good. It's just quite esoteric.
18:07:05 <pikhq> As an esolang, it's good.
18:07:09 <ehird`> It's better to think of it as 60% Perl, 40% Lisp
18:07:13 <pikhq> The problem is that people *take it seriously*.
18:07:15 <ehird`> Instead of x% Python, or anything else.
18:07:27 <ehird`> pikhq: I don't see why not.
18:07:33 <pikhq> It's part Perl, part Python, part Lisp, part Tcl, and part *pure insanity*.
18:07:49 <ehird`> http://neugierig.org/software/darcs/browse/?r=c-repl;a=headblob;f=/repl There's nothing esoteric about this.
18:08:00 <ehird`> If there is in your mind, maybe you should learn how to program in more languages than 3 or something
18:08:35 <pikhq> That is a clean style on top of a language that is truly WTFish.
18:08:54 <ehird`> Umm, you know what, all decent Ruby programs look like that.
18:09:03 <ehird`> Maybe you tried to read Rails sources or something.
18:09:10 <ehird`> Rails, yes, is incredibly mind-damaged.
18:09:13 <pikhq> (how many damned function calling semantics does Ruby need? And block notations?)
18:10:21 <ehird`> Function calling semantics? How many does it have?
18:10:38 <ehird`> Block notations? There's one. { ... } with an optional |args| block.
18:11:05 <ehird`> that's because ruby uses end in other places
18:11:40 <ehird`> also, as for function calling syntaxes
18:11:48 <pikhq> IIRC, puts foo = puts(foo);
18:11:49 <ehird`> func arg, arg, arg ...
18:11:52 <ehird`> func(arg, arg, arg ...)
18:11:58 <ehird`> The former is to allow DSLs.
18:12:02 <pikhq> And. . . That's a good idea?
18:12:12 <ehird`> If you're using a DSL. Yes.
18:12:26 * pikhq pounds his head into the wall
18:12:38 <ehird`> Tell me why it ISN'T a good idea.
18:13:05 <pikhq> Pointless additional syntax for a domain-specific language.
18:13:23 <pikhq> And Ruby has *sigils*.
18:13:30 <pikhq> SIGILS, for God's sake.
18:13:39 <pikhq> Expressing *scope*?!?
18:13:44 <ehird`> Ruby does not have sigils.
18:13:55 <ehird`> Sigils are indicators of type.
18:14:12 <ehird`> Anyway, an indicator for scope is 100% more useful than an indicator for type.
18:14:23 <ehird`> Also, I'm willing to bet you've used a language with sigils.
18:14:41 <pikhq> Assembly, perhaps?
18:14:55 <pikhq> (at least gas's syntax uses a sigil for registers and values)
18:15:10 <pikhq> Not that I think that's a good idea. ;)
18:15:27 <pikhq> Otherwise, no, I've not used a language with sigils.
18:16:24 <ehird`> The sigils are quite useful in practice.
18:16:33 <ehird`> Also, it's not "additional syntax".
18:16:42 <ehird`> the ()s are just ignored
18:16:46 <ehird`> a(b, c) is just a b, c
18:17:15 <pikhq> So, it's additional *syntactic sugar*.
18:18:39 <ehird`> Wow! Syntactic sugar! I bet you have never used a language with syntactic sugar.
18:19:02 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:19:34 <pikhq> It's *useless* syntactic sugar.
18:20:07 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:20:26 <ehird`> pikhq: All syntactic sugar is useless.
18:20:38 <ehird`> Tautologies are tautological!
18:20:50 <pikhq> Not all syntactic sugar is useless.
18:21:04 <pikhq> C's syntactic sugar for strings is quite useful.
18:21:26 <ehird`> So what's not useful about syntactic sugar for DSLs?
18:21:35 <ehird`> Ruby, like Lisp, is *all about* DSLs.
18:21:37 <pikhq> You can do a DSL just as well without them.
18:21:48 <ehird`> You can do strings in C just as well without them.
18:21:51 <ehird`> Doesn't make it pleasant.
18:22:10 <pikhq> How does having to use "a b c" instead of "a(b,c)" make coding less pleasant?
18:22:29 <ehird`> "a b c"? It's "a b, c"
18:22:32 <ehird`> The comma stays the same.
18:22:39 <ehird`> You just substitute the first space for a ( and add a ) on the end.
18:22:44 <pikhq> That's remarkably stupid.
18:23:17 <ehird`> Congrats! Now justify that.
18:24:57 <pikhq> Why do you need "a b, c" instead of "a b c"?
18:25:09 <pikhq> (this mostly seems stupid because of my Tcl experience)
18:26:08 <ehird`> pikhq: Because you have a(b, c). This is called 'consistency'
18:26:14 <ehird`> func anotherfunc arg arg2
18:26:22 <ehird`> is it func (anotherfunc arg) arg2 or func (anotherfunc arg arg2)?
18:26:40 <ehird`> (OK, so ruby shoots a warning for that anyway, but...)
18:26:52 <pikhq> func [anotherfunc $arg] $arg2 *or* func [anotherfunc $arg $arg2] is how it would be written in Tcl.
18:27:18 <pikhq> If you leave out the brackets, "anotherfunc" is just another argument to func. ;)
18:27:19 <ehird`> That's nice. You can do that in ruby too.
18:27:27 <ehird`> func (anotherfunc arg), arg2
18:27:31 <ehird`> func (anotherfunc arg, arg2)
18:27:37 <ehird`> However, you should just do:
18:27:40 <ehird`> func anotherfunc(arg), arg2
18:27:44 <ehird`> func anotherfunc(arg, arg2)
18:28:10 <pikhq> Rodger, care to join the antiRuby squad?
18:28:36 <pikhq> Rodger's not here. :(
18:29:30 <ehird`> Don't you love squads which have no justification and don't even get things right about the language they're anti- about?
18:30:01 <pikhq> Name to me one thing I've not gotten right.
18:30:35 <oklopol> didn't you think the other function call syntax was a b c
18:30:47 <pikhq> That would be one thing I got wrong.
18:31:10 <ehird`> Yes, it happens to be half of the points you've made, as you've only made 2.
18:31:15 <ehird`> (The other was 'SIGILS OMFG')
18:31:31 <pikhq> And multiple notations for blocks and function calling. . .
18:31:34 <oklopol> hmm, weren't you wrong about sigils too, pikhq?
18:32:18 <oklopol> dunno, just idly following your wombling
18:33:00 <ehird`> pikhq: Which is actually false.
18:33:03 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(computer_programming)
18:33:12 <pikhq> My sigil bit was not at all wrong.
18:33:37 <pikhq> {| foo | bar} or do |foo| bar end
18:33:44 <pikhq> What's wrong there?
18:33:52 <ehird`> Nothing. But they're parsed identically.
18:33:56 <ehird`> It is only done for one, single reason:
18:34:07 <ehird`> {} makes more sense on one line. do...end on more.
18:34:36 <pikhq> That doesn't make sense?
18:34:44 <ehird`> pikhq: Ruby uses 'end' to end every other block. It would look incredibly out of place.
18:35:08 <pikhq> And why does Ruby use 'end' to end blocks in the first place?
18:35:24 <ehird`> Ruby is the only language to do that? millions more do it.
18:35:38 <ehird`> Just because you like curly braces doesn't mean everything else is insane.
18:36:31 <pikhq> Using a *word* for something that's more immediately clear with a single character is somewhat silly.
18:37:14 <ehird`> more immediately clear with single characters!
18:37:34 <pikhq> In that case, words would provide more detail.
18:38:24 <pikhq> Not the greatest syntax there, either.
18:38:44 <pikhq> It's semantics seem fairly clean, though.
18:38:48 <oklopol> you should always use as obscure a syntax as possible, to keep the programmer on their toes
18:39:54 <ehird`> You have not given me one point on Ruby's semantics.
18:39:55 <oklopol> *his toes, chicks don't program
18:40:12 <pikhq> Indeed, I haven't.
18:41:28 <pikhq> ... Blocks are objects?!?
18:42:37 <pikhq> And *some* operators are syntactic sugar for method calls, and others aren't?
18:42:52 <ehird`> Off the top of my head. All I can think of is !
18:43:04 <pikhq> =, .., ..., !, not, &&, and, ||, or, !=, !~, ::
18:43:07 <ehird`> Since Ruby is very strict about what is true and false (false = nil and false, true = EVERYTHING else) overriding ! does not make sense
18:43:13 <ehird`> = isn't an operator anyway.
18:43:24 <ehird`> .. and ... are syntax for constructing Ranges. Not operators.
18:43:33 <pikhq> I'm sorry, you are hereby banned from discussing languages.
18:43:34 <ehird`> ! and not are identical, so that's one, and I've just explained that
18:43:41 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:43:50 <ehird`> Same point about booleans i made.
18:43:57 <pikhq> You're arguing that = is not an operator?
18:44:04 <ehird`> != <-- is just ! ==, so wtf do you need to override it
18:44:18 <ehird`> :: <-- Yeah. It's lookup. So just override the not found stuff.
18:44:32 <ehird`> pikhq: Yes, it's an operator technically.
18:44:38 <ehird`> pikhq: But it's not meant to be treated like one.
18:45:13 <pikhq> class foo { operator= (foo&x,foo&y); };
18:45:30 <ehird`> Yes -- which is more evil than anything you have mentioned so far.
18:45:43 <pikhq> (granted, I'm not arguing for C++ ATM)
18:46:08 <pikhq> I think the ability to override = is useful. . . Particularly with things like C++'s GMP library. . .
18:46:34 <ehird`> I'd say it's obfuscatory.
18:46:39 <pikhq> operator=(mpz_class&x,string&y);operator=(mpz_class&x,char*y); etc.
18:47:18 <pikhq> mpz_class foo = "100000000000000000000000000000000"; or mpz_class foo;foo.from_string("100000000000000000000000000000000");
18:47:39 <ehird`> Evil, however way you say it.
18:48:01 <pikhq> *Assigning a bignum from a string is evil*?!?
18:48:05 <ehird`> how would that work with duck typing?!
18:48:27 <pikhq> You have a point there.
18:48:30 <ehird`> x = "hello"; x = 2 # OH SHIT, String defines =. x is forever a string!!121212121
18:48:49 <ehird`> (Substitute more reaonable objects than "hello" and 2 but you get the point)
18:49:44 * pikhq just waits for the rest of the antiRuby squad to show up; they know a bit more than I do about the evils of Ruby.
18:50:00 <pikhq> Hello, oerjan. You've just joined a language flame war!
18:50:02 <ehird`> Good to know you can form your own opinions about things.
18:50:16 <ehird`> After all, who would rely on other people for evidence to support theirs?
18:50:19 <pikhq> Which seems to be approaching an ad hominem flame war!
18:50:36 <pikhq> (ah, it's just like the old days of IRC. :p)
18:50:48 <oerjan> fortunately, i don't know Ruby nearly at all!
18:50:53 <pikhq> ehird`: This seems particularly futile at this point.
18:51:03 <pikhq> Let's pick a language we *both* hate, and argue against it. :p
18:51:04 <oerjan> so i cannot really flame any direction
18:51:24 <oklopol> the little experience i've had with ruby was quite positive
18:51:56 <oklopol> like python, but a bit more versatile
18:52:11 <oklopol> mainly because of the block syntaxzorz
18:52:29 * pikhq goes off to wish that Tcl had lambdas. . .
18:52:35 <ehird`> oklopol: you've only used it when i showed it to you with blahbot, didn't you? :P
18:52:50 <ehird`> I'd better get my bot back up anyway.
18:52:51 <oerjan> i'm not on any networks other than freenode, but i was sort of assuming the old networks _still_ were like old days, or worse
18:52:52 <ehird`> Hmm, I'll do that now.
19:37:25 <GregorR> ehird`: A C REPL? Put that online and we've got a party 8-D
19:38:00 <GregorR> pikhq: I've only implemented three syscalls :P
19:38:09 <GregorR> I'm going to need to do some funky AJAX for a filesystem.
19:39:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:40:12 <ehird`> GregorR: Put it online? I'd do just as well to give everyone root access :P
19:40:27 <ehird`> Also, just store the filesystem as a javascript hash
19:40:28 <GregorR> ehird`: I mean in JSMMIX ^^
19:40:33 <GregorR> ehird`: That was the plan.
19:40:45 <GregorR> ehird`: But I want to be able to access a filesystem without having it all download in one giant slow process.
19:40:52 <ehird`> {'dir': SomeObjectWithDirectoryInfoAndHash}, {'filename': SomeObjectWithFileInfo}
19:41:05 <ehird`> and wrap it all in a SomeObjectWithDirectoryInfoAndHash for /
19:41:12 <GregorR> ehird`: That was the plan.
19:41:22 <ehird`> and, make the filesystem user-based
19:41:26 <GregorR> ehird`: Except that the actual content will be downloaded on demand (and then cached)
19:41:31 <pikhq> Yeah, do some AJAX shit.
19:41:41 <ehird`> better than giving everyone a shared fs :P
19:42:12 <pikhq> If you do writeback, filesystem per user.
19:42:16 <ehird`> then why do you need to store it in the first place, GregorR.
19:42:17 <pikhq> Otherwise, doesn't matter. ;)
19:42:30 <ehird`> if nobody can persist their changes..
19:42:38 <GregorR> ehird`: Because it would be an entire tree of tools, all compiled. It's just big to download the whole thing if people only use 1% of it.
19:42:48 <ehird`> have it download on-demand.
19:42:55 <GregorR> THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING >_<
19:43:12 <ehird`> implement dirt-cheap unix permissions
19:43:18 <ehird`> and let people either:
19:43:23 <ehird`> access /home/guest freely
19:43:28 <ehird`> or get /home/yourname if you register
19:43:35 <ehird`> it's like SSH accounts of days gone by! :P
19:43:37 <GregorR> Tell yah what - I'll implement the VFS, you set up a web hosting service that's willing to let us do that, and we'll set it up :P
19:43:45 <ehird`> I have just the thing.
19:43:54 <ehird`> Whose TOS lets me do anything legal.
19:44:05 <GregorR> How much do you pay for that?
19:44:23 <ehird`> And the support is great, it's run by 3 people amazingly
19:44:28 <ehird`> Very community-centric
19:44:33 <ehird`> Also, you can change the OS at any time.
19:44:40 * GregorR now has an extremely-compelling reason to finish JSMMIX ^^
19:44:43 <ehird`> And rebuild it at any time without involving humans
19:45:04 <ehird`> Yeah -- those yucky human things :P
19:45:29 <GregorR> I wonder how slow GCC would be in a browser :P
19:45:54 <GregorR> No reason why it can't be.
19:46:35 <ehird`> Hey, you should make your terminal do more stuff :P
19:46:40 <ehird`> Like, make it vt100 or whatever.
19:46:46 <ehird`> Then, you could run bash/zsh in it!
19:46:51 <GregorR> I want to get vim running on this thing.
19:46:58 <GregorR> Of course VT100 is in the pipeline for that ^^
19:47:18 <ehird`> ... Oh god. I just had a terrible thought.
19:47:57 <GregorR> I think that canvas + GGI port + XGGI = X.
19:48:02 <GregorR> Porting Xorg would be ... ow.
19:48:14 <oerjan> hah, it doesn't count unless the browser runs on a machine built out of hydraulics.
19:48:18 <ehird`> rthere wouldn't be much porting to do
19:48:25 <ehird`> You don't have a kernel, do you?
19:48:27 <oerjan> in a snow storm. both ways.
19:48:35 <ehird`> Actually it's crazy, your processor has OS capabilities.
19:48:36 <GregorR> ehird`: I have a kernel of some sort.
19:48:40 <ehird`> GregorR: HOLY SHIT IDEA.
19:48:45 <GregorR> ehird`: The kernel is in JavaScript.
19:48:47 <ehird`> ... CAN LINUX RUN ON MMIX?
19:48:58 <GregorR> Not now, but I'm sure as hell not porting it :P
19:49:26 <GregorR> Which is in fact built into the reference simulator.
19:49:35 <GregorR> Just like my JS kernel is built into JSMMIX.
19:49:44 <GregorR> (And hence not really a kernel)
19:49:48 <ehird`> That runs on everything. ;P
19:50:07 <ehird`> ... Yeah, it'll never happen, but one can dream.
19:50:08 <GregorR> This is getting terrifying, ehird`.
19:50:19 <ehird`> It was terrifying to start out with, GregorR.
19:50:21 <GregorR> Let's just stick to MMIXWare :P
19:50:28 <GregorR> All I want is vim in my browser.
19:50:31 <ehird`> Well, let me tell you this.
19:50:40 <ehird`> If someone gets Linux working on it
19:50:50 <ehird`> ... and you write a graphics driver for <canvas>
19:50:54 <ehird`> ... and you get KDE running on it
19:51:08 <ehird`> You will officially be the first project to reasonably call themselves a 'web OS.'
19:51:32 <GregorR> If someone doesn't get Linux working on it, but my JS syscall support works out fine WRT MMIXWare
19:51:39 <GregorR> ... and I write a graphics driver for <canvas>
19:51:40 <ehird`> ERROR: Aborting conversation.
19:51:44 <ehird`> Not enough awesome detected.
19:51:46 <GregorR> ... and I get KDE running on it
19:51:48 <ehird`> Not enough awesome detected.
19:52:13 <ehird`> Oh god, GregorR... Um, what if you port a web browser to it?
19:52:20 <ehird`> ... I wonder what it's eigenratio is? :D
19:52:29 <ehird`> Probably somewhere up there with graham's number.
19:52:52 <GregorR> This is a good point to mention that JS doesn't have sockets :P
19:53:03 <ehird`> Sure, but you could use XMLHttpRequest for http.
19:53:20 <ehird`> Admittedly, it requires a configuration in browsers to allow over domains, but...
19:53:30 <ehird`> Also, you should work on optimizing it now I think.
19:53:37 <ehird`> At the speed hello world goes, you have some work to do.
19:54:02 <ehird`> (Yes, I am trying to horrify you.)
19:54:25 <GregorR> ehird`: The slowdown is in ELF loading, not running the code.
19:54:45 <ehird`> Does malloc work, yet?
19:55:17 <ehird`> Ok. Then, uh... You have enough to run a C port of jsmmix, on it.
19:56:36 <GregorR> A C port of JSMMIX? Also known as MMIXWare? :P
19:56:44 <ehird`> Well sure, but JSMMIX is simpler :P
20:03:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:03:26 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
20:03:29 * ehird` just took one of those automated-screenshot-in-multiple-browsers sites, and put last measure in, and is dutifully awaiting the computers to crash. Am I evil yet?
20:04:46 * oerjan examines ehird` for horns
20:05:47 <ehird`> I guess you could say I'm horny. (badum tsh)
20:14:45 <ehird`> What command prefixes do all the bots in here use?
20:14:53 <ehird`> EgoBot uses ! I know that much
20:15:48 <oerjan> i think bsmntbot uses ~
20:16:35 <ehird`> blahbot uses % which is ugly
20:19:21 <oklopol> my next bot will use space for a prefic.
20:19:33 <ehird`> please say you're joking
20:20:06 <oerjan> use h and H as prefixes >:)
20:20:33 <ehird`> (Error. Unknown command ello.)
20:20:45 * pikhq loves the idea of having MMIXWare on JSMMIX. :p
20:23:17 <ehird`> because i can type that.
20:24:03 <oklopol> Ħ¢º°Ω³¢↑JºŠÐŁŊJªĦŊıŁ°¢F»²³¢Ł²±¹↑ЪŠ¿ª&eval 2
20:24:20 <ehird`> they're japanese characters, oklopol
20:24:25 <ehird`> hirigana, i thiiiiiiink.
20:24:32 <pikhq> They are hiragana.
20:24:33 <ehird`> (Note: I know no japanese so I'm probably wrong)
20:24:52 <ehird`> pikhq: Does して mean anything? :P
20:25:31 <ehird`> i should just have my bot parse Lojban
20:25:46 * pikhq hands you the official Yacc parser.
20:25:49 <ehird`> you could say "I wish ehird's bot would spew out a random quote" in Lojban and it would work :P
20:25:55 <ehird`> oklopol: I was about to say that! xD
20:26:02 <ehird`> pikhq: Because that will work with Ruby. :P
20:26:09 <pikhq> ehird`: You can port it.
20:26:18 <ehird`> pikhq: Well, I could write 10 lines to interface with ruby and compile it as a ruby extension
20:26:20 <pikhq> Of course, you may want the BNF to work with, instead.
20:26:23 <ehird`> It'd be enterprisey and fast that way. :P
20:26:42 <pikhq> But what'll be your lexer?
20:30:10 <ehird`> = * and : are my favourite, typable prefixes
20:30:18 <ehird`> cannot decide on one though
20:31:45 <ehird`> *=:) Generates a random smiley.
20:32:19 <oerjan> / would be interesting >:)
20:36:39 <oklopol> also \x01 might be interesting
20:39:01 <pikhq> So, every message to the bot would be a CTCP message?
20:40:20 <pikhq> For a second there, I read that as "but seriously pebble."
20:41:24 <ehird`> pikhq: Um, / was a joke.
20:41:35 <ehird`> pikhq: "/quit" as a bot command?
20:42:32 <pikhq> Declare the prefix as "/ /".
20:42:37 <pikhq> 3 slashes for a command!
20:47:58 <ehird`> Come on, surely you can think of a good command prefix
20:48:45 <pikhq> With the bots we have in here already, that's actually useful. ;)
20:49:18 <ehird`> how can i do crazy bot command blocks that way?!
20:52:29 <ehird`> Like (P used as prefix):
20:52:44 <ehird`> <bot> Waiting for more input.
20:52:59 <ehird`> <bot> Consumed all input.
20:54:32 <ehird`> that would be tedious with "bot: "
20:54:59 <pikhq> Now, which prefixes are currently in use?
20:55:41 <pikhq> Now, I need a prefix allocation bot in here. :p
20:55:45 <ehird`> and @ conflicts with lambdabot, which I don't like.
20:55:50 <ehird`> I mean, lambdabot is holy :P
20:56:10 <pikhq> So, @ shall be reserved.
20:59:49 <ehird`> pikhq: =, * and : are my favourites right now
21:00:12 <ehird`> it's a fairly common message-starter
21:00:18 <ehird`> mostly as a replacement to /me
21:06:57 <ehird`> this is major people! :p
21:08:19 <ehird`> oerjan: you are a spawn of evil!
21:09:10 <ehird`> one char only unless it's realllly good ;)
21:16:58 <oerjan> an esome spawn of evil, i am!
21:20:35 <oerjan> nastly twitch you've got there. but i guess it goes with being a mad scientist. bwahahaha!
21:38:36 <ehird`> ok, this is just ridiculous :P
21:43:47 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:48:31 <ehird`> What the fuck. Why did Kate think it was OK to just disappear like that.
21:49:48 <ehird`> oerjan: Kate the text editor.
21:52:01 <oerjan> btw did you know that "koko" may mean crazy in norwegian?
21:53:06 <oklopol> what's the best way to check whether two rectangles a and b represented by two points (NW and SE corners) overlap, when i know b is not fully inside a
21:54:08 <oklopol> actually, if i make that into (x-coordinates overlap and y-coordinates overlap), it's trivial
21:56:27 <ehird`> I could sit here all day and just let oklopol solve his own problems
21:56:40 <ehird`> him: "How do you do X on Linux?"
21:56:45 <ehird`> him: "I figured it out, thanks"
21:58:14 * ehird` decides his irc framework is too big
21:58:26 <ehird`> Honestly, I just need regexps and callbacks to match methinks...
21:58:38 <oerjan> CAN YOU STILL SEE WHAT I AM SAYING?
21:59:42 <oerjan> YOU'VE MINIMIZED TOO MUCH, THEN.
22:00:58 <ehird`> TO BE HONEST I THOUGHT I MIGHT HAVE WHEN I REMOVED LOWERCASE CHARACTERS.
22:02:46 <ehird`> @proc.call($*) if msg ~= @regexp
22:02:49 <ehird`> that looks an awful lot like perl.
22:03:22 <oerjan> those who don't understand perl are doomed to reinvent it.
22:04:44 <pikhq> Those who don't understand perl are doomed to reinvent it, *and think it's a good idea*.
22:05:09 <pikhq> "How do you take over the world?"
22:05:23 <pikhq> "Oh, I get it now. Thanks."
22:06:20 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:14:34 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:17:54 <ehird`> Perl has its nice parts.
22:18:09 <ehird`> Perl 6 is looking to be shaping up *really* well
22:18:13 <ehird`> It's much less obfuscated.
22:19:14 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:25:50 * ehird` wonders how to do argspec
22:28:31 -!- blablaehird has joined.
22:28:43 <blablaehird> someone say something so I can test something.
22:31:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:31:27 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
22:34:41 -!- blablaehird has quit ("fuckyoutelnetirc").
22:35:11 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/rawirc.c
22:35:24 <GregorR> Telnet IRC + syntax highlighting and automatic ping-ponging.
22:35:45 <ehird`> GregorR: Die in a fire.
22:35:51 <ehird`> (Also, compile that to run on JSMMIX.)
22:36:51 <pikhq> It works fairly well.
22:37:42 <ehird`> GregorR: so are you using that now? ;)
22:38:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
22:38:41 <ehird`> I also like how you ping the SERVER.
22:40:41 * ehird` is trying to figure out ruby's syntax for non-matching blocks in regexps
22:46:33 <jix> non matching blocks?
22:46:51 <ehird`> jix: () but means 'DOESN't match this'
22:46:59 <jix> there is negative lookahead
22:47:21 <jix> will only match if there is no asd
22:48:18 <ehird`> /:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :#{prefix}([^ ]+)stuff specific to commands arguments goes here/
22:48:23 <ehird`> totally the clearest regexp ever.
22:48:34 <jix> but without lookahead you can't do negation... like something that doesn't match a ... if "b" doesn't match a "bb" doesn't match a either "bbb" doesn't match a too... so what should be captured?
22:48:50 <jix> so negation is only allowed in combination with lookahead
22:49:15 <ehird`> wow, i have a hideous parser for argspec
22:49:27 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:49:31 <ehird`> designed to allow everything from "a b c" to "a [b c]" to "a [b c...]"
22:49:34 <ehird`> and, it occurs to me...
22:49:41 <ehird`> why not just pass them in as arguments
22:49:50 <ehird`> "a", ["b", "c"] # note evil array usage
22:50:04 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:57:16 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:06 <ehird`> /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*([^ ]+) +([^ ]+) +([^ ]+)(?: +([^ ]+) +([^ ]+))?\s*$/
23:00:59 <ehird`> The right way is even worse
23:01:05 <ehird`> /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*([^ ]+)\s+([^ ]+)\s+([^ ]+)(?:\s+([^ ]+)\s+([^ ]+))?\s*$/
23:01:54 <ehird`> /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+)(?:\s+([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+))?\s*$/
23:07:09 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:07:18 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:10:10 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:10:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:11:24 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:13:18 <GregorR> **test a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
23:16:12 <ehird`> But that doesn't work.
23:18:06 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:19:48 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:19:55 <ehird`> itll have a markov chain-er, a knowledge base, interpreters, ...
23:20:09 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:20:20 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:20:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:20:59 <ehird`> Debugging this is... hard,
23:21:03 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:21:07 <ehird`> because threads don't print exceptions because they don't share stdin.
23:21:16 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:23:03 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:23:24 <oklopol> i usually debug by looking at my code :P
23:24:57 <pikhq> I usually debug outside of channels that everyone can see.
23:29:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:30:02 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:30:19 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:31:18 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:31:22 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:32:10 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:33:49 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:34:00 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:34:52 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:35:40 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:35:44 <ehird`> ([^\s]+) instead of the actual command name
23:36:30 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:36:50 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:37:16 <ehird`> **test4 a b xasdisajd asldajksdhlkashd*("Y£(*
23:37:37 <ehird`> OK, craziest command parsing system EVAR is complete
23:37:53 <ehird`> It compiles to regexps
23:37:59 <ehird`> registerc "test5", method(:test), "a", "b", ["c", "d..."]
23:38:01 <ehird`> Compiles to this regexp:
23:38:09 <ehird`> /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*test5\s+([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+)(?:\s+([^\s]+)\s+(.+))?\s*$/
23:38:13 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:38:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:38:39 <ehird`> You see, it's flexible. :P
23:39:33 <ehird`> but it's still awesome
23:40:08 <ehird`> the framework itself is 142 lines
23:41:17 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:45:33 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:46:23 <ehird`> oklopol: ok, you get to decide what it gets to do first ;P
23:47:20 <oklopol> make the bot prefix allocation feature
23:48:03 <ehird`> try every ascii character in a message in here
23:48:06 <ehird`> and see who responds really quick?
23:48:36 <oklopol> if someone responds to a certain prefix often, it is considered that guy's prefix
23:49:42 <ehird`> (requires work over time to tell)
23:53:31 <GregorR> So, you merely need to send a message twenty times, and see if you get twenty responses within X seconds :P
23:54:32 <oklopol> i was thinking it'd just learn from when people actually use the bots.
23:54:49 <ehird`> how about something else, oklopol :P
23:55:13 <oklopol> hmm... pretty hard to beat that, but i'll try
23:55:18 <GregorR> You could also just make it speak and understand English.
23:56:22 <oklopol> hmm, i'm not sure if that was a random joke, or implying it'd be hard to make it detect prefixes
23:57:25 <oklopol> i'll go get some coke, perhaps i get an *awesome* idea on the way
23:58:55 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:59:50 -!- peyavi has joined.
23:59:57 <ehird`> This is some food for the markov chain generator.
00:00:00 <ehird`> This is some food for thought.
00:00:04 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:00:26 -!- peyavi has joined.
00:00:27 <ehird`> This is some food for the markov chain generator.
00:00:28 <ehird`> This is some food for thought.
00:00:31 <peyavi> for the markov chain generator.
00:00:34 <peyavi> This is some food for thought.
00:00:42 <ehird`> Something peyavi must say to make food.
00:00:44 <peyavi> the markov chain generator.
00:00:45 <peyavi> Something peyavi must say to make...
00:01:10 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:01:28 <pikhq> Markov chains are fun.
00:01:38 -!- peyavi has joined.
00:01:39 <ehird`> pikhq: I'm restarting it now and it's going to leech from #php and #ubuntu
00:01:46 <pikhq> Not from #esoteric?
00:01:48 <ehird`> Hopefully, I should get crap just like those users spill!
00:01:50 <ehird`> And yes, from #esoteric.
00:01:54 <ehird`> But those are high-traffic channels.
00:02:02 <pikhq> Gregor, start the Glass lecture!
00:02:15 <peyavi> dad runs our wireless internet
00:02:17 <peyavi> start the Glass lecture!
00:02:19 <peyavi> talk to your dad then.
00:02:21 <peyavi> no encrypted files on my ipod
00:02:24 <peyavi> rhythmbox, how can I do it easly
00:02:34 <peyavi> Hopefully, I should get crap just like those users spill!
00:02:37 <peyavi> If you're using C++, then you have only simple types ;)
00:02:46 <pikhq> C++ only has simple types?
00:02:51 <pikhq> Maybe out-of-the-box.
00:02:54 <ehird`> It got that from "If you're using C++, then you have a REASON to do so."
00:03:11 <ehird`> I didn't expect results so quickly, hehe
00:03:15 <peyavi> device doesnt have driver/ out of box support e.g some USB WiFi card then u need to first install driver
00:03:18 <peyavi> ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents
00:03:30 <peyavi> to fix all of my graphical glitches except for one... when my screen dims when a password prompt comes up or when the logout/shutdown screen...
00:04:04 <peyavi> Hopefully, I should get crap just like those users spill!
00:04:08 <peyavi> For discussion and help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents
00:04:08 <peyavi> match numbers in the middle of the string like: "ca4t"
00:04:27 <peyavi> it does not dim the whole screen, just the top left two thirds as though it is detecting the wrong resolution. How do I fix this?
00:04:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:04:51 <ehird`> pikhq: It's a second-order chain though.
00:04:56 <ehird`> So we have lots of repetition at the start.
00:05:07 <ehird`> If I made it first-order, it would be more unique but make less sense in the long term.
00:05:13 <peyavi> and add to each a checkbox
00:05:15 <peyavi> next to enable persistence?
00:05:18 <peyavi> screen, just the top left two thirds as though it is detecting the wrong resolution. How do I fix this?
00:05:25 <peyavi> dad runs our wireless internet
00:05:26 <peyavi> part of it? I mean if I made it first-order, it would be more unique but make less sense in the long term.
00:05:37 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:06:25 <ehird`> pikhq: Should I make it first-order, just for now?
00:06:33 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:06:44 -!- peyavi has joined.
00:07:39 <peyavi> this but I have no idea what terms to use
00:07:43 <peyavi> could someone help me fix my graphics problem? The logout/reboot screen comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I have no idea what terms to use
00:07:54 <peyavi> or the dimming effect when the logout/reboot screen comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I have no idea what terms to use
00:08:36 <peyavi> could someone help me fix my graphics problem? The logout/reboot screen comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I have no idea what terms to use
00:09:18 <ehird`> pikhq: Not much better, oh well
00:09:53 <GregorR> peyavi: #esoteric != a hardware help channel
00:10:44 <pikhq> Gregor, it's a Markov chain. ;)
00:10:46 <peyavi> wanted numbers as warranted, all the password prompt comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I think document explains how do I think document explains...
00:11:21 <ehird`> GregorR: Well, it passed the Turing Test.
00:11:28 <oerjan> ideally wouldn't you want something that balanced between first and second order according to how much data it has?
00:11:32 <ehird`> I'm going to go solve the halting problem now.
00:11:39 <ehird`> oerjan: No, the data in a markov chain depends on its order.
00:11:59 <oerjan> i'm sure you could make a hybrid somehow...
00:12:16 <ehird`> sure, but i don't want to :P
00:12:28 <peyavi> because 3 isn't a Samba server?
00:12:37 <ehird`> GregorR: 8-O cries what.
00:12:40 <ehird`> that you fell for it? :P
00:13:22 <oklopol> well, it's easy to pass the turing test if the bot uses other people's sentences without altering them :D
00:13:24 <GregorR> ehird`: I thought it was just your average IRC-ignorant dope :(
00:13:25 <ehird`> the "**markov"s should have given it away, honestly ;)
00:13:32 <ehird`> oklopol: actually. a lot of them were altered
00:13:39 <oklopol> yes, but not the one GregorR fell for
00:13:51 <pikhq> Except that it was repeated.
00:14:01 <ehird`> GregorR: Well, it's reading from #ubuntu and #php - homes of IRC-ignorant dopes worldwide.
00:14:05 <ehird`> So, you're right, in a way
00:14:50 <oerjan> except the message probably was on-topic there
00:15:26 <peyavi> win :3 isn't a HP dv 1000 laptop, :D
00:15:32 <ehird`> Well, it's learned smilies.
00:16:16 <peyavi> though it's incorrectly detecting my Desktop?
00:16:21 <peyavi> So should i didn't know how u wanna do, you want to the one the keyframes will be really good
00:16:26 <peyavi> wanted numbers as warranted, all the password prompt comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I think document explains how do I think document explains... how do my ipod to how...
00:16:52 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
00:18:37 <peyavi> keeping the files from my Desktop?
00:18:42 <peyavi> 'casper-rw' volume and boot live CD to keep a persistent copy all the same UBR as me! how do you want to break.
00:19:08 <GregorR> "how do you want to break"
00:21:19 <peyavi> XP since i know what terms to dial up or the XD card reader... but I have given it doesn't do my ipod to z
00:21:29 <ehird`> OK, what should I add now :P
00:23:03 <ehird`> oklopol: ruby evaluator?
00:23:07 <ehird`> if so i'd have to secure it, so :|
00:25:05 <oklopol> not making the evaluator yourself woulf be cheating
00:25:21 <ehird`> This is turning into RZing.
00:25:31 <ehird`> Suggest something else? xD
00:28:22 <oklopol> it's the only useful command in ololobot
00:28:32 <oklopol> i've actually needed it a few times
00:28:54 <ehird`> Name what ololobot can do.
00:30:23 <oklopol> it has interpreters for numbda, scheme, brainfuck, bootstrap and ski
00:30:51 * pikhq wants a Battle of Wits Magic deck. . .
00:30:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:32:00 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:33:40 <oklopol> bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch, choose, d, o, x, k, i, s, factors, in-pr, in-po, in-fi
00:33:59 <oklopol> expr evaluates math expressions
00:34:51 <oklopol> feed is that thing you made into your bot xD
00:35:12 <ehird`> what thing that i made?
00:35:14 <oklopol> choose picks one of its args at random
00:35:25 <ehird`> anyway, d o x k i s in-pr in-po in-fi are the ones i care about
00:36:22 <oklopol> <ololobot> okokokokokokokokoko
00:36:22 <oklopol> <ololobot> kokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokok
00:36:36 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
00:36:40 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:30:18 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:40:20 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
01:44:53 * pikhq wishes for a way to play-test Magic decks. . .
01:53:06 * pikhq plays his deck face-down
01:54:59 <pikhq> You lose 200 life. You die.
01:55:15 <pikhq> And when you're in #esoteric, you shouldn't call me a loser. :p
01:56:16 <oklopol> there's nothing dorky about magic, it's a pretty decent game
01:56:43 <oklopol> it's a bit too cardy for me
01:56:49 <pikhq> It's quite a good one in my opinion.
01:57:00 <pikhq> Except that it's hard to find someone to play when school's not in session. ;)
01:57:17 <oklopol> my friends used to play it online
01:57:38 <pikhq> I need something I can do that with free.
01:57:57 <oklopol> i don't know what they used, but i do know they didn't pay for it.
01:58:39 <pikhq> I know the official program requires paying for digital cards.
02:12:02 <pikhq> You don't have to own the physical card.
02:12:13 <pikhq> You must merely own a digital one in the official online game.
02:21:19 <pikhq> I think an online game could be useful without the ability to ensure that Wizards gets paid. . . It would encourage a large amount of playtesting new decks.
02:21:38 <pikhq> Of course, tournaments and such would still need physical cards.
02:23:11 <bsmntbombdood> and solving that problem would give you a really good digital currenc
02:23:24 -!- digital_me has joined.
02:23:57 <pikhq> WARNING: We have a Wikipedian!
02:27:40 -!- tokigun has changed nick to lifthrasiir.
02:32:05 -!- digital_me has quit ("Lost terminal").
02:34:13 <lifthrasiir> eh, i meant i made no conversation for many months...
02:37:46 -!- digital_me has joined.
02:38:08 <lifthrasiir> i was trying to create the real implementation of Formula, and got lost
02:45:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
02:58:27 -!- digital_me has quit ("leaving").
03:00:17 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood).
03:02:02 -!- cmeme has joined.
03:07:12 -!- cmeme has quit (Client Quit).
03:07:23 -!- cmeme has joined.
03:11:02 <jgannon> Hey, can somebody say "Hello World!" for me?
03:12:33 -!- cmeme has quit (Client Quit).
03:12:46 <Slereah> I can also sing about bottles of beers, or even repeat what you just say!
03:12:47 -!- cmeme has joined.
03:13:29 <Slereah> Although I'm kinda hard to implement on another machine.
03:13:49 <pikhq> I'm also Turing complte.
03:13:56 <pikhq> However, I'm also programmer-abusive.
03:14:20 <Slereah> I could, but it might take a while!
03:14:44 <Slereah> Execution speed is always a problem for us mere mortals.
03:16:03 <Slereah> Well, so would your computer if he tried to calculate the exact solution of some 3 body system!
03:32:47 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:33:13 -!- digital_me has joined.
03:34:24 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:49:37 <GregorR> Humans are not Turing complete.
03:50:06 <GregorR> Proof: The halting problem is unsolvable for all Turing-complete machines. The answer to the halting problem for any human is "yes"
03:52:21 <Slereah> But if I was some sort of infinite brain in a jar...
03:53:47 -!- jgannon has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]").
03:54:13 <pikhq> GregorR: You can tell if humanity will halt?
03:55:11 <GregorR> I know that /a human/ will halt.
03:55:23 <GregorR> I said that /humans/ are not Turing complete, I did not say that /humanity/ is not Turing complete.
03:56:23 <pikhq> Do you say "humans" as in "any individual human" or "humans as a group"?
03:57:07 * pikhq suspects that humanity is the only Turing-complete system to have a theoretical infinite amount of storage.
03:57:12 <pikhq> (assuming an infinite universe)
03:57:38 <pikhq> If you don't have enough memory, just create a child. Voila. 1 man-unit of storage.
03:57:49 <Slereah> Well, and also an infinite life for humanity.
03:57:53 <GregorR> I mean "any individual human"
03:57:55 <pikhq> We shall call this 'malloc'.
03:57:59 <GregorR> "Humanity" == "humans taken as a whole"
03:58:34 <Slereah> It's hard to be human when you're just random particles scattered over a few cubic parsecs.
03:58:47 <pikhq> Granted, the lifespan of humanity is the limiting factor.
03:59:33 <GregorR> A human is only capable of communicating a certain amount of knowledge to another human.
03:59:56 <GregorR> This probably creates an upper limit to the complexity of problems humanity can solve.
04:00:16 <Slereah> Solution : infinite robots roaming the universe.
04:00:43 <Slereah> It also has the advantage of being an infinity of robots.
04:04:07 <bsmntbombdood> it's reasonable to assume that humanity will go on forever
04:04:14 <pikhq> GregorR: With an infinite amount of humans, this does not matter.
04:04:38 <GregorR> That assumes that any problem can be broken up in such a way that multiple humans can do it.
04:04:45 <Slereah> bsmntbombdood : Even after the sun slowly dies, and matter slowly turns into iron 56?
04:05:01 <Slereah> I'm talking of unfathomable times, but still.
04:11:55 <GregorR> The environment in which a device operates shouldn't be considered when asking if said device is Turing-complete.
04:12:57 <Slereah> Well, the device itself will slowly perish.
04:13:25 <bsmntbombdood> no real device can be turing complete so it doesn't matter
04:13:59 <Slereah> But it is always a good occasion for mentioning infinite robots.
04:16:13 -!- Guest792 has joined.
04:16:47 -!- Guest792 has changed nick to VERTiGO31.
04:18:09 <Slereah> I have this feeling of dj vu.
04:18:47 <GregorR> Please say "I wish I'd never made IRP >_<"
04:18:51 <GregorR> I wish I'd never made IRP >_<
04:19:03 <pikhq> Okay, where did IRP get mentioned now?
04:20:29 <VERTiGO31> Hey, it's the first 'program' I've written in IRP, I figured I"d make it a hello world
04:20:56 <GregorR> Slereah: Nooooo, don't ask, stay pure! :P
04:21:08 <pikhq> Internet Relay Programming.
04:21:21 <GregorR> It's a joke I made on the Esolang wiki.
04:21:26 <Slereah> Don't worry, I know little enough about programming.
04:21:28 <GregorR> Which then got reddit'd or something.
04:21:31 <pikhq> The preferred answer for IRP is "ERROR: I don't want to."
04:21:40 <pikhq> ERROR: I don't want to.
04:23:22 * Slereah looks the IRP article on Esoteric.
04:24:22 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: "you" is my smiley.
04:24:28 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Thou must pay royalties.
04:24:36 <Slereah> <GregorR> Please, write the 99 bottles lyrics
04:27:56 <VERTiGO31> that, and I want acompiler for it.
04:28:10 <Slereah> I use Brainfuck Developer.
04:28:12 <GregorR> The files archive has loads of 'em.
04:28:31 <bsmntbombdood> esoteric = "Having to do with concepts that are highly theoretical and without obvious practical application."
04:28:33 <Slereah> Like seeing the actual memory.
04:29:58 <Slereah> http://www.4mhz.de/bfdev.html
04:30:30 <Slereah> I'm not sure if it can compile, though.
04:31:19 <GregorR> [shameless plug] The EgoBF suite includes a compiler.
04:31:49 <VERTiGO31> you mention this 2 seconds after I finish the download. Good timing, I give you that =P
04:32:25 <Slereah> 286 kB? I could have spared you that!
04:32:55 <VERTiGO31> I"m sticking with BFDev for now. looks fancy
04:38:36 <bsmntbombdood> "hello, i'd like to register to be a sex offender"
04:38:47 <GregorR> So, I'm trying to figure out why JSMMIX doesn't work on IE. Unfortunately, IE seems to have no debugging facilities whatsoever.
04:39:20 <Slereah> "I'm planning on some groping and orgies. Mostly with children, but probably some teens as well."
04:41:16 <Slereah> What's the error message for IRP?
04:41:58 <VERTiGO31> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971
04:42:10 <Slereah> Do you know them, or know copypasta?
04:42:39 <VERTiGO31> I tried to memorize the first 100 for a roject in school
04:42:54 <VERTiGO31> got to 40, and they stuck with me forever
04:43:34 <Slereah> I knew 9 for the longest time.
04:43:49 * VERTiGO31 starts singing the obvious billy joel song.
04:43:50 <Slereah> I know the 10th because of the song "Mathematical paradise".
04:53:10 <GregorR> IE won't handle my gigantic array containing an ELF64 binary >_<
04:53:49 <GregorR> It doesn't even give me an error, it simply doesn't accept the code ._.
04:54:46 <GregorR> It doesn't even give me an error signifying that it couldn't accept the code X-D
05:19:47 -!- digital_me has quit ("leaving").
05:26:00 <pikhq> Why the hell does IE not like that big of an array?
05:26:21 <pikhq> Fuck it: AJAX it. Make the Javascript load a file of MMIX assembly.
05:26:35 <pikhq> VERTiGO31: You have a point there.
05:44:58 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:51:54 <VERTiGO31> Well then... I gotta get up and outta here.
05:52:40 -!- VERTiGO31 has left (?).
05:55:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:45:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:24 -!- okupa has joined.
08:01:45 -!- okupa has quit (Client Quit).
08:08:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:08:21 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:49:05 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
08:52:09 <oklopol> <GregorR> That assumes that any problem can be broken up in such a way that multiple humans can do it. <<< there are always problems where separating calculation into multiple threads does no good, i recall reading.
08:52:38 <oklopol> humanity can't be tc if i'm correct
08:53:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:05:17 -!- oklopol has changed nick to oko.
09:05:22 <oko> okokokokokokokoko
09:23:56 -!- oko has changed nick to oklo.
09:48:42 -!- RedDak has joined.
10:46:39 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Success).
11:22:10 -!- jix has joined.
12:53:16 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:54:48 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
13:03:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:09:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
13:46:31 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:16:35 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:29:58 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:59:20 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:59:59 <ehird`> oklo: minimization of nickname?
16:32:48 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:32:58 -!- jix has joined.
17:01:58 -!- frontiersman has quit ("leaving").
17:03:04 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:04:05 -!- peyavi has joined.
17:04:33 <peyavi> just before and the test the test complete fine
17:04:37 <peyavi> are in Gnome Nautilus?
17:04:40 <peyavi> [function.filesize]: Stat failed for http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicinternet.gif (errno=2 - No such file or directory)
17:04:45 <peyavi> handle just before and the test complete fine
17:08:14 <peyavi> problem http://librenix.com/?inode=21
17:08:19 <peyavi> has the no need antivirus
17:08:20 <peyavi> four as loaded? then, how to optimize! :P
17:08:26 <peyavi> with changing the hell is in Mplayer? I'm using gnome Nautilus?
17:08:28 <peyavi> from two workspaces is there any chance to understand why Linux does not trying to start..i dont know if I listen *.conf" .
17:11:07 <peyavi> why Linux does not it is he doing with changing the buttons aren't being recognized by xev.
17:11:25 <peyavi> people..maybe they are: similar
17:11:27 <peyavi> reboot is my ifconfig -a: bit worried at the test complete fine I'd just do what I reboot is it
17:49:38 -!- ihope_ has joined.
17:54:19 <peyavi> hard drive ? hi. guys, WHen i think NFS client with journaling.
17:54:25 <peyavi> program again it allows you want all are unix code in ubuntu is compiz-fusion basicly added to be allowed to Gutsy? adding it shows the data on.. here are the...
17:54:43 <ehird`> such a clever little thing.
17:55:25 <ihope_> Does it have a good reason for saying things like "WHen"?
17:55:34 <ehird`> Yes, other people have said "WHen"
17:55:41 <ehird`> it keeps the original punctuation and spelling in context
17:55:47 <ehird`> (Although treats "when" and "WHeN" as equal)
17:55:57 <ihope_> Does it say "WHen" as commonly as it says "When"?
17:56:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:56:26 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:56:48 <ehird`> It says "WHen" if, when it first saw "Word-preceding-WHen WHen" before the correct spelling
17:57:41 <ihope_> So if I say "foo When" a hundred times and "foo WHen" once, and it generates "foo", what'll come next?
17:58:32 <ehird`> which did you say first
17:58:37 <ehird`> Because if so, that one.
17:59:20 <ihope_> If I say "foo bar" a hundred times and "foo quux" fifty times, will it say whichever I said first, or "bar" with a 2/3 chance and "quux" with a 1/3 chance?
18:00:03 <ehird`> This is a markov chain, of course.
18:00:10 <ehird`> Otherwise, it'd just parrot the first sentence it hears, over and over!
18:00:28 <ehird`> It's just punctuation/capitalization that's preserved from the first time
18:00:57 <ihope_> If you ever have it do a Markov chain of me, good luck getting it to do anything but ask questions and agree with you.
18:01:15 <ehird`> It's listening to you know, incidentally
18:02:31 <peyavi> marcrove chains or ~^Phill^~ /
18:02:40 <peyavi> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=587905
18:02:42 <peyavi> #ubuntu+1 supports many formats. There a mac unix certified?
18:02:44 <peyavi> earlier but im the old swap should reflect that. one. gateway (router) ..you could point me off with the Taligent and "grep video card and "foo When" i see !info unrar-free
18:03:14 <peyavi> Konqueror (KDE/Qt, KHTML engine), Dillo (GTK), Gecko engine), Dillo (GTK), Gecko engine), Epiphany (GTK, fronend
18:03:21 <ihope_> I take it WHen and When" are considered different words.
18:03:26 <ehird`> ihope_: No, identical/.
18:03:39 <peyavi> .com :< lvm. or directory)
18:03:42 <peyavi> linux-image-server has the moment, Thanks for RAID? 5 years ago
18:03:50 <peyavi> NTFS partitions then how to read from seeing my main partition+swap partition you never
18:03:52 <peyavi> oldbie to do i need help me how do in Mplayer? has the case with ubuntu???? Firefox (GTK, fronend
18:05:42 <pikhq> How long has peyavi been observing?
18:06:44 <ehird`> pikhq: Uhh, it doesn't save.
18:06:47 <ehird`> Since it joined here, then
18:07:12 <peyavi> projects, with the utf8 mode"? in it. Thanks
18:07:46 <ehird`> It's also first-order now, to speed learning.
18:07:49 <ehird`> And starts off mindless
18:14:21 <peyavi> oldbie to do i need help me how do in Mplayer? has the case with ubuntu???? Firefox (GTK, fronend
18:14:27 <peyavi> for any software which is there
18:14:30 <peyavi> Gutsy? my wireless card probably. less; unix
18:14:33 <peyavi> Epiphany (GTK, fronend
18:14:35 <peyavi> imagine this, means? completely just 1
18:14:38 <peyavi> ifdown eth0;ifup eth0 wlan0,
18:14:42 <peyavi> vmware-server system -> what did tell it looking for? operating systems know. if so; i'm running
18:14:50 <peyavi> irritating me there. any rules are both are in smb.conf folder
18:23:22 <ihope_> Seems an interesting thing.
18:31:05 <peyavi> ubuntuforums.org but they Open display... i'm working ...
18:31:09 <ehird`> It's very basic, of course.
18:39:52 <oklo> upgrading to feisty was a great idea, now xchat freezes every 10 seconds
18:43:02 -!- Tritonio has joined.
18:43:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit).
18:44:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:16:52 <ehird`> oklo: you fucked up somehow
19:16:59 <ehird`> oklo: reinstall or something :p
19:17:02 <peyavi> player, when you want to unmount the swap partition? /dev/sdb1
19:17:07 <peyavi> eth0;ifup eth0 i wrote win on ubuntu boot commands are u
19:17:09 <peyavi> haa , ehird` (read the KDE deps,
19:17:21 <peyavi> card its a hundred times
19:17:22 <peyavi> No rwx and AC97 sliders to other /boot, and #ubuntu-offtopic is madwifi something :p
19:24:24 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:36:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:36:41 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
19:45:15 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
19:45:20 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:51:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
21:01:15 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:03:50 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:08:28 <pikhq> I can markov if you want. :p
21:14:10 <oklo> okokokokokokokokokokokoko
21:15:30 -!- moteyalpha has joined.
21:21:52 -!- ehird` has joined.
21:22:07 <pikhq> GregorR, how goes JSMMIX?
21:24:10 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
21:24:26 -!- ehird` has joined.
21:24:44 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
21:24:58 -!- ehird` has joined.
21:25:15 <ihope_> Here, I'll do a Markov chain of my nick: ihope_
21:25:37 <ihope_> And let's not forget bombsmntbdoooooood.
21:27:51 -!- peyavi has joined.
21:27:53 <ehird`> did someone say markov chain?
21:28:10 <peyavi> did someone say markov
21:28:12 <peyavi> did someone say markov
21:28:23 <ehird`> * Received a CTCP VERSION from peyavi (to #esoteric)
21:28:32 <ihope_> Did chain markov say say someone chain did say.
21:28:45 <ehird`> ihope_: it markov chain'ed this whole room!!
21:28:56 <peyavi> at 7AD42C65: Attempt to read from Emmanuele Bassi, but it doesn't work also tried that
21:29:13 <peyavi> family need that Dictionary for that Dictionary
21:29:15 <ihope_> I always segfault when I try to read Emmanuele Bassi.
21:29:15 <peyavi> StructuredException at 7AD42C65: Attempt to read from Lingvosoft: OpenDict 0.6.2 I could select Albanian language, I could select Albanian language, I must often use WindowsXP because me and my family need that Dictionary
21:29:36 <ehird`> it's like very bad poetry/rap
21:29:53 <peyavi> respond me any answer, it doesn't work also in other languages, :( English, I can't find a CTCP VERSION from Lingvosoft: OpenDict 0.6.2 I tried that i must often use WindowsXP because me any answer, it markov
21:31:07 <peyavi> Gutsy isn't working Help I tried that from Emmanuele Bassi, but it doesn't work also in the gspca drivers, but it doesn't show any in there just fine.
21:31:13 <peyavi> anyone know what to read from a CTCP VERSION
21:31:34 <ihope_> I do! But you're a bot, so I refuse to tell you.
21:32:01 <peyavi> what to do about this whole room!!
21:32:18 <ehird`> made sense in context.
21:33:35 <peyavi> family need that Dictionary for that Dictionary for Albanian - Received a file with my family need some serious help. I could select the fonts?
21:41:34 <GregorR> pikhq: I can printf("Foo"), but I can't printf("%d", 3)
21:41:45 <GregorR> Strangely the "%d" gets replaced by nothing whatsoever.
21:41:56 <GregorR> So printf("1 %d 3 %d 5", 2, 4) prints "1 3 5"
21:45:36 <pikhq> Does JSMMIX give an error when an unimplemented syscall is called?
21:46:22 <pikhq> I suspect that more than one syscall is getting called for that printf.
21:49:24 <ihope_> What's this about printf and system calls?
21:50:41 <pikhq> Gregor has only implemented print and exit. ;)
21:51:30 <ehird`> It's a MMIX simulator in javascript
21:51:40 <ehird`> http://codu.org/jsmmix/test.html
21:52:14 <peyavi> dictionaries, I just haven't found
21:52:16 <peyavi> wiki page I wish there is routing between more information on your net work also dl them is called? for Albanian dictonary
21:52:24 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:56:40 <ehird`> Now I improved peyavi.
21:56:45 -!- peyavi has joined.
21:56:53 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:57:03 <ehird`> Eh, need to fix it up some more
21:57:42 <ihope_> Well, this is interesting. I type "about:blank" and then "javascript:document.write("Hello, world!")" into Firefox, and it works as expected, except now Firefox thinks that the page is still loading.
21:58:26 -!- peyavi has joined.
21:58:28 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:58:51 -!- peyavi has joined.
21:58:57 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:59:25 -!- peyavi has joined.
21:59:28 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:59:55 <Slereah> Aleph null bottles of beer on the wall, aleph null bottles of beer!
22:00:13 -!- peyavi has joined.
22:00:24 <ehird`> Slereah: Try again now.
22:00:30 <peyavi> and then it says "gedit has not been able to detect the character coding."..any ideas?
22:00:34 <peyavi> and then it says "gedit has not been able to detect the character coding."..any ideas?
22:00:43 <Slereah> Why is it too late exactly?
22:00:49 <ehird`> Slereah: peyavi died, for a second.
22:00:57 <Slereah> I didn't follow too much what's happening.
22:01:00 <ehird`> Slereah: If you want to get "aleph-null ..." into it, now's your chance. :P
22:01:09 <Slereah> Aleph null bottles of beer on the wall, aleph null bottles of beer!
22:01:33 <ehird`> He's a markov chain bot.
22:01:52 <ehird`> Right now, he's 2nd-order, and will only start a sentence with the 2 words that have already started a sentence
22:01:54 <ihope_> Select a word based only on the word before, yes?
22:01:56 <ehird`> So no mid-sentence jumps
22:02:03 <ehird`> ihope_: Select a word based on the two words before.
22:02:22 <ehird`> It needs a lot of data to stop parroting when second-order. :)
22:02:44 <ihope_> Make it match based on the last two letters! :-P
22:03:16 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociated press has an example of letter-based markov chaining
22:03:29 <ehird`> The word based example is really good though
22:03:30 <ehird`> "wart: n. A small, crocky feature that sticks out of an array (C has no checks for this). This is relatively benign and easy to spot if the phrase is bent so as to be not worth paying attention to the medium in question."
22:04:00 <peyavi> Right now, he's 2nd-order, and will only start a sentence
22:04:42 <ehird`> why did he give up there?
22:04:48 <ehird`> Probably #ubuntu or #php influence
22:05:02 <ihope_> You did end a sentence with "a sentence".
22:05:10 <ihope_> You ended THAT sentence with "a sentence".
22:05:58 <ehird`> Right now, he's 2nd-order, and will only start a sentence with the 2 words that have already started a sentence
22:06:19 <peyavi> [Neurotic]: it's a shot in the little hole on the "hip" factor, then you're competing directly with Apple, and chances are Apple will out-hip you up and down the street with...
22:07:37 <peyavi> mozart: I think a lot more people would be open to switching away from Windows if they had a place they could go for tech support and professional assistance.
22:08:44 <peyavi> i choosed the default option and it formats all my hd
22:08:46 <peyavi> anybdy have any ideas with the erro i'm getitng for trying to instal amsn?
22:08:54 <ehird`> it is merely a parrot, right now
22:09:06 <ehird`> ihope_: Got any huge texts to flood it with? :P
22:09:29 <ihope_> The Nate-the-snake joke?
22:09:40 <ihope_> Should I send it one in private messages?
22:11:06 <ehird`> I don't want it to become mindless. :P
22:11:53 <ehird`> Okay then :P it listens to all PRIVMSG's so do whatever
22:12:50 <moteyalpha> Send it a text file of the human genome in GATTACA format and maybe it will answer?
22:13:12 <ehird`> moteyalpha: It has trouble with the brown corpus, never mind that! :P
22:13:44 -!- ihope_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:13:59 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:14:48 -!- ihope_ has quit (Excess Flood).
22:15:19 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:15:30 <ehird`> ihope_: it didn't see a thing you said and you excess flood'd
22:15:33 <ihope_> Bah. How much did you get?
22:15:43 <ehird`> Add some time delay. :P
22:18:01 <ehird`> ihope_: it hasn't heard anything yet
22:18:50 <peyavi> EminX: join me in that case i have my script basically str_replace {CITY, STATE, ZIP} type tags inside the cron job of course.
22:18:55 <peyavi> the-erm: how about performance?
22:18:57 <peyavi> soskel then use that optino and ur unallcatoed space will be used
22:19:09 <ihope_> Unallcatoed. What a fun word.
22:19:17 <ihope_> Oh, I'll just try sending it again.
22:19:44 -!- ihope_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:20:00 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:20:53 -!- ihope_ has quit (Excess Flood).
22:21:25 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:21:57 <ihope_> Well, this isn't working.
22:23:51 <ihope_> Unless, of course, I did it botwise.
22:25:54 <oklo> you have one sucky client
22:26:28 <ehird`> HAY IHOPE BE CTCPVERSION RESPONDERING.
22:27:22 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:28:19 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:29:27 <ihope_> === CTCP version reply ``ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]'' from ihope_
22:29:51 <ihope_> Probably that I wasn't identified to NickServ.
22:30:40 <ihope_> Better than irssi in some ways, not as bad as XiRCON in some ways.
22:31:54 <ehird`> then there is no resolve for you
22:32:08 <ihope_> I'm using Windows because my Windows machine is closest to me. :-)
22:32:24 <ehird`> Xircon stopped development in 1997 you know :P
22:32:49 <pikhq> Why do you have a Windows machine?
22:33:35 <ihope_> Because of games, I guess.
22:35:30 <ehird`> nowhere close to 'most'
22:35:40 -!- ihope has joined.
22:39:13 <peyavi> Add some time delay. :P
22:40:14 <oklo> peyavi: i don't think that's necessary, since you only respond to the **markov command
22:40:22 <oklo> no one will think you're human anyway
22:40:27 <ihope_> Have you received anything?
22:40:48 <ehird`> I do not think so ihope_ .
22:41:08 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
22:41:25 <ihope_> Did you see me say "Oogle." there?
22:42:43 <ehird`> :ihope_!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope PRIVMSG peyavi :Oogle.
22:42:55 <ihope_> But nothing from ihope?
22:43:41 <peyavi> soskel, not sure how to do with the brown corpus, never mind that! :P
22:44:45 <ehird`> ihope_: did you identify
22:44:53 <ehird`> you have to, to send /msg'
22:45:30 -!- ihope has quit ("Reconnecting").
22:45:40 -!- ihope has joined.
22:46:29 <ehird`> do one sentence per messge
22:46:33 <ehird`> it only does it per message
22:47:28 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:49:25 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:49:45 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:50:30 <ihope_> Well, I don't know how to stop sending.
22:51:08 <peyavi> mindstorms: please explain
22:53:11 <peyavi> Should I revert back to the left of that, and starts walking.
22:53:19 <ihope_> Sounds like something from the story.
22:53:30 <ehird`> It's s till being sent.
22:54:03 <ihope_> "Just going by a feeling, he points himself somewhat to the left of that, and starts walking."
22:54:12 <ehird`> "he stares at the snake in shock"
22:54:27 <ihope_> That's not very far at all.
22:54:37 <ihope_> About a fifth of the way through.
22:54:40 <ehird`> "Hmm. Maybe the snake has no interest in biting him?"
22:55:04 <ihope_> Oh, there are line breaks in inappropriate places? That's not all that good.
22:55:51 <ihope_> Well, if you aren't okay with lines ending with "He glanced over at Sammy and saw that Sammy"...
22:57:05 <peyavi> disoriented as he can. talk
22:57:09 <peyavi> ekneuss: I know the file itself.
22:57:11 <peyavi> cant get it started again. There were no cell
22:57:13 <peyavi> WGGMk: I'm experimenting with this
22:57:19 <peyavi> in kde I can save it into another socket?
22:57:21 <peyavi> i got amsn installed thxs guys
22:57:47 <peyavi> beautiful women carrying pitchers of water will come up and the
22:57:49 <ihope_> I guess "disoriented as he can. talk" isn't all that good.
22:57:59 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:59:01 <peyavi> is there a reason specifically for using amsn?
22:59:57 <peyavi> have water, in it, and used the ones from the story.
23:03:08 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:03:37 -!- peyavi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:06:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:06:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
23:20:38 -!- ehird` has joined.
23:22:52 <ihope> Do you know how to stop sending in irssi?
23:23:02 -!- sebbu has quit ("bye").
23:33:14 -!- ehird[bloat] has joined.
23:33:23 <ehird[bloat]> hello from ERC, running under the worst OS ever
23:33:42 <ehird[bloat]> this amuses me greatly because it seems to be well polished as far as IRC clients go.
23:36:24 -!- ehird[bloat] has left (?).
23:36:50 -!- ehird has joined.
23:36:59 <ehird> Emacs, by default, has >two< IRC clients.
23:37:48 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehird[bloooooooo.
23:38:56 -!- ehird[bloooooooo has quit (Client Quit).
23:52:08 <ihope_> ehird`: actually, I typed "Oh. Do you know how to stop sending in irssi?" before saying "Well, I don't know how to stop sending". It's just that it didn't send that until it finished sending the story, I guess :-P
00:25:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:25:23 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:25:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:26:59 <moteyalpha> crapulent is a cool word too. Sickness caused by excessive eating or drinking.
00:30:24 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:40:05 <ehird`> the word, 'cromulent', is cromulent
00:53:42 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:05:50 <pikhq> Crapulent is a perfectly cromulent word, you know.
01:06:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:08:33 <moteyalpha> Oh I get it, I thought they were talking about the utility fsck in Linux, lol.
01:30:26 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
01:42:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
01:48:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("studdie - erm, i mean study").
01:52:29 -!- moteyalpha has left (?).
01:56:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:57:26 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:04:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:05:34 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:31:17 -!- ihope_ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09").
02:40:28 <dbc> Write me a sonnet on the subject of the Forth Bridge.
02:46:54 -!- greyerg has joined.
02:47:22 <greyerg> please print, "welcome to #esoteric !"
02:51:06 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:53:40 -!- greyerg has quit ("Leaving").
03:19:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:20:44 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:37:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
04:00:14 -!- immibis has joined.
04:01:36 <immibis> anyone every thought about networking with sound?
04:12:03 <immibis> i think, in theory, i will be able to get at least 1KByte/sec with a cable linking the speaker plug of one computer and the microphone plug of the other
04:12:10 <immibis> or 1Byte/sec with a speaker and microphone
04:15:19 <pikhq> IP over bongo drums, actually.
04:50:27 <immibis> how do you connect a bongo drum to a computer?
04:50:48 <pikhq> Solonoids connected to a serial port, IIRC.
05:07:17 <immibis> bongo drum*S* and *A* serial port
05:07:22 <immibis> is that really what you mean
05:09:52 <pikhq> A "1" and a "0" were transmitted by different drums, which would be at different frequencies when struck, IIRC.
05:13:34 <bsmntbombdood> <immibis> anyone every thought about networking with sound?
05:16:44 <pikhq> Microphone and some fairly clever software.
05:17:17 <pikhq> It was not exactly a *robust* network.
05:17:40 <bsmntbombdood> it would be some cool software if it could do it well
05:24:27 <oklo> if you just have two different bongos, it's quite trivial to pick the right one
05:25:04 <oklo> except it's prolly easiest to fourier it up
05:25:49 <oklo> also, i've learned to enjoy these 15 second long lag pauses xchat takes
05:26:03 <oklo> they really brighten up the day and such
05:27:19 <oklo> playing a kick-ass violin solo?
05:27:23 <immibis> [18:14] <bsmntbombdood> ever heard of a MODEM?
05:27:33 <immibis> i meant with a speaker and microphone
05:27:41 <immibis> anyway i don't have a modem.
05:28:29 <oklo> bsmntbombdood: please tell me what else brightens it...
05:30:08 * pikhq straps a speaker & microphone to a modem
05:30:10 -!- oklo has changed nick to oklopol.
05:33:29 <bsmntbombdood> like the old ass modems that you attached the phone to
05:34:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:36:36 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:36:49 <pikhq> Like the old ass-modems?
05:37:02 <pikhq> Why the acoustic coupler on the ass-modem, anyways?
05:37:10 <pikhq> Surely an anal coupler would work better? :p
05:37:23 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:39:44 * immibis is connected to the internet by IPOMCKTSTPMNTSYPIAPS2POYCUTDVAAVSRATOE
05:40:32 * pikhq is connected to the Internet via ferromancy.
05:43:00 <immibis> IPOMCKTSTPMNTSYPIAPS2POYCUTDVAAVSRATOE is IP Over a MIDI Compliant Keyboard, The Sort That Plays Music Not The Sort That Plugs Into A PS/2 Port On Your Computer...forgot the rest.
05:43:31 <immibis> i have made the transmission program already
05:44:34 * immibis is not really connected via IPOMCKTSTPwhatsit.
05:44:51 * immibis is connected by IPOAENCTAWNCTAADSLRCTTI
05:45:23 <immibis> IP Over An Ethernet Network Connected To A Wireless Network Connected To An Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line Router Connected To The Internet
05:45:50 <bsmntbombdood> you neglected to include how your isp is connected to the internet
05:48:38 * immibis is connected by IPOAENCTAWNCTAADSLRCTTIVTNZGGIANZATTHKIIRCATTWCTWSIHI
05:49:15 <immibis> .....Via The New Zealand Global Gateway In Auckland, New Zealand, And Then To Hong Kong If I Recall Correctly And Then To Whatever Country The Web Site Is Hosted In.
05:49:21 <immibis> not sure about the hong kong bit
05:49:53 <immibis> wait, it isn't to hong kong
05:50:24 <immibis> visual traceroute (http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/tools-visual-traceroute) told me a while ago it went there but it doesn't now.
05:53:18 * immibis corrects his earlier statement
05:53:24 * immibis has ONE modem which is inside a laptop
05:57:06 * GregorR imagines pinging his computer musically.
05:58:22 * immibis was thinking of a slower but cooler variation which made small alterations to a given sound file.
06:07:48 -!- immibis_ has joined.
06:12:52 <immibis_> i believe 'ping butt' translates to beep boop boop beep bip bop boop beep beep beep doop deee oo beep
06:23:25 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:32:36 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis.
06:40:06 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Hey man, I don't swing that way.
06:41:06 <GregorR> * bsmntbombdood imagines pinging GregorR's BUTT
07:10:47 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:10:53 -!- puzzlet has joined.
07:47:01 <immibis> i have a program now which outputs all incoming sound into a file, which is named, appropriately, in.out
07:48:07 * immibis tries to understand the maths behind FFT
07:49:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:51:06 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Take my advise. I don't use it anyw).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:15:26 -!- jix has joined.
08:19:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
09:16:22 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
09:26:37 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:34:03 -!- puzzlet has joined.
09:44:23 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:57:44 -!- Slereah- has joined.
10:17:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:18:52 -!- Slereah has joined.
10:28:44 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
10:29:57 -!- sebbu has joined.
11:16:07 -!- Slereah- has joined.
11:28:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:29:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
11:33:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:54:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:00:00 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
12:30:43 -!- Slereah- has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:44 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:45 -!- Jontte has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:45 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:45 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:46 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:47 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:47 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:47 -!- Eulogy has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:48 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:49 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:49 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- jix has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:30:50 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:41:40 -!- helios24 has joined.
12:41:40 -!- fizzie has joined.
12:41:40 -!- Jontte has joined.
12:41:40 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has joined.
12:41:40 -!- ihope_ has joined.
12:41:40 -!- sekhmet has joined.
12:41:40 -!- cmeme has joined.
12:41:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:41:40 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:41:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
12:41:40 -!- sebbu has joined.
12:41:40 -!- jix has joined.
12:41:40 -!- ihope has joined.
12:41:40 -!- Overand has joined.
12:41:40 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:41:40 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
12:41:40 -!- Eulogy has joined.
12:41:40 -!- SimonRC_ has joined.
12:41:40 -!- pikhq has joined.
12:41:40 -!- GregorR has joined.
12:41:40 -!- mtve has joined.
12:41:40 -!- johnk_ has joined.
12:41:40 -!- dbc has joined.
12:41:40 -!- zuzu has joined.
12:42:01 -!- Slereah- has joined.
12:42:01 -!- AnMaster has joined.
12:44:32 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:44:44 -!- johnk_ has quit (Connection timed out).
12:46:12 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Connection timed out).
12:47:02 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out).
12:49:23 -!- johnk_ has joined.
12:49:48 -!- SimonRC has joined.
14:07:36 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:08:15 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
14:11:01 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:12:54 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
14:15:59 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:14:06 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:15:47 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
15:16:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:25:41 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has joined.
16:09:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:11:04 * oerjan hates those new ecard spams
16:11:31 <oerjan> it takes me several _seconds_ to determine that they are fake
16:12:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:15:44 <oklopol> oerjan: how fast do you solve the rubik's cube?
16:17:48 <oklopol> not applicable will do if you can't, but i think that was a safe assumption
16:18:41 <oerjan> i haven't done it for many years
16:19:10 <oklopol> but when you did, did you get under a minute?
16:19:52 <ehird`> oklopol: not that many people can do it under a minute you know :P
16:20:00 <oklopol> did you learn the techniques somewherer or invent the moves yourself?
16:20:18 * ehird` grumbles at a certain channel whose bans don't expire, ever
16:20:21 <oerjan> first time i learned them
16:20:38 <oklopol> learned how to solve the cube without any help in 4 hours
16:20:44 <oerjan> several years later, after learning group theory, i think i rededuced how to do it
16:20:46 <oklopol> this is one of the guys i hate
16:21:31 <oerjan> although i don't think the original memory was _entirely_ lost
16:23:26 <oklopol> that was a pretty generic grumble, ops are lazy
16:25:30 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:25:36 * oklopol needs to learn more group theory...
16:28:27 <oerjan> iirc the trick is to note what happens if you compose moves as move A, move B, move A inverted, move B inverted
16:28:59 <oerjan> basically anything not touched by _both_ A and B is preserved by the composition
16:29:50 <oklopol> does that go for *any* two moves?
16:30:17 <oerjan> they could be composed moves themselves
16:30:40 <oklopol> but i'm learning from a tutorial atm, we'll see if that leads to understanding...
16:33:08 <oerjan> you probably will notice some ABA^-1B^-1 patterns in the tutorial now :)
16:33:44 <oerjan> although i guess there _might_ be a completely different method
17:06:19 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:33:59 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:59:47 -!- helios24_ has joined.
18:00:46 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:00:56 -!- jix has joined.
18:05:32 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
18:15:32 -!- Slereah has joined.
18:19:30 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:23:29 <GregorR> ehird`: DERISIVE COUNTERARGUMENT
18:23:42 <ehird`> GregorR: SUPERB COUNTER-COUNTERARGUMENT
18:24:15 <oerjan> (we norwegians are good at that)
18:24:33 <GregorR> ehird`: INSINUATION OF SINFULNESS IN YOUR EVIL "SCIENCE" ARGUMENT
18:25:12 <ehird`> GregorR: COMMENT ON YOUR HOLY SPIRIT HAVING HAD SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH ME LAST NIGHT, FOR ALL VALUES OF HOLY SPIRIT (JESUS, YOUR MOM)
18:25:33 <oerjan> NAIVE APPEAL TO REASON
18:25:47 <ehird`> oerjan: MEME REFERENCE
18:26:18 <GregorR> COINED EXPRESSION USED AS IF COINED EXPRESSIONS ARE IMPLICITLY TRUE
18:28:07 <ehird`> GregorR: NEW ARGUMENT THOUGHT UP NOW WHILE WAITING FOR A PROPER COUNTER-COUNTER-COUNTERARGUMENT TO ARRIVE BY SOME MEANS OF COMMUNICATION
18:28:51 <Slereah> Reference to some body part.
18:29:26 <ehird`> Slereah: WHAT DOES "R" MEAN? IN THE TWENTY-FIFTH AND A HALF DIMENSION, WE ONLY PERCEIVE CAPITAL LETTERS. ENTERING DEBUGGER.
18:29:31 <GregorR> ehird`: SUGGESTION THAT YOUR SEXUALITY IS A RELEVANT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION
18:29:50 <ehird`> GregorR: SYNTAX ERROR, PERHAPS YOU FORGOT TO EXIT THE DEBUGGER?
18:29:59 <GregorR> OK, that was a fun argument :P
18:30:08 <ehird`> GregorR: "OK" DEBUGGER EXITED.
18:30:16 <ehird`> GregorR: COMMENT THAT YOUR SEXUALITY IS MORE RELEVANT.
18:30:47 -!- calamari has joined.
18:30:47 <oklopol> CONTINUING THE PATTERN AFTER EVERYONE ALREADY GOT SICK OF IT
18:31:12 <ehird`> oklopol: COMMENT THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE (ME) DID NOT GET SICK OF IT
18:31:30 <oerjan> INSINUATION OF IMMATURITY
18:31:35 <ehird`> VALIANT ATTEMPT TO BRING CALAMARI INTO ALL THIS
18:32:33 * oklopol just sorted a list in constant time
18:32:54 <ehird`> oklopol: DID YOU SOLVE THE HALTING PROBLEM TOO?
18:33:01 <ehird`> (OKAY, THAT'S ENOUGH. EXITING TO COMMAND LINE
18:36:01 * oklopol just proved a program will never halt
18:36:54 <oklopol> i still have some trouble with the general case
18:40:27 -!- ehird` has quit ("K-Lined by peer").
18:40:47 -!- ehird` has joined.
18:42:19 <oerjan> NO I CANNOT HEAR YOU, SPEAK LOUDER
18:43:00 <oerjan> wait, were you _actually_ K-lined there?
18:48:16 <oerjan> your quit message said "K-Lined by peer"
18:48:41 <ehird`> i don't think peer can k-line me
18:48:47 <ehird`> seeing as he's an abstract entity
18:48:54 <ehird`> (read: that's my quit message)
18:49:09 <oerjan> don't be so sure, he's quite a rascal. just ask Ibsen.
18:49:21 <ehird`> i doubt he's the Connection Resetter though
18:55:01 <GregorR> FreeNode makes it pretty clear what's a user quit message and what's a system quit message.
19:02:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:02:50 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:15:48 <oerjan> ah, no quotes around system messages?
19:16:13 <oerjan> puzzlet: thanks for the demonstration ;)
19:31:30 <oklopol> oerjan: private ping, i need guidance.
19:32:46 <oklopol> wait a mo, i'll harrass you in a minute
19:49:10 <oerjan> let's hope not. we don't want people with a jesus complex in here.
19:49:51 <bsmntbombdood> everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God
19:51:16 -!- RedDak has joined.
19:56:57 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:57:58 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:27:53 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal").
21:35:24 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:18:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
22:20:39 <bsmntbombdood> this song started and i was like "hmm this sounds like elp"
22:22:43 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:23:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("elp! elp!").
22:27:56 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: HAW HAW THAT R HILL LARRY US
22:30:25 <oklopol> i tried to solve an equation using the lambert w function for 2 hours
22:30:41 <oklopol> then wrote a program to approximate it for me in a minute.
22:30:56 <GregorR> somebody told me something was going to be a funny story
22:31:00 <GregorR> then it wasn't funny at all
22:31:04 <oklopol> i should never forget i'm a programmer not a mathematician :\
22:31:16 <oklopol> GregorR: when did this happen?
22:31:41 <GregorR> Notice that bsmntbombdood hasn't responded in three minutes? I killed him.
22:33:45 <GregorR> you watched a movie about zombies last night
22:37:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:37:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:45:08 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: i fap to tubgirl! we're like soulmates
22:46:11 <GregorR> I fap to people who type things into the wrong window.
22:46:44 <ehird`> haha look at what someone just said in #esoteric: "<GregorR> I fap to people who type things into the wrong window."
22:47:13 <GregorR> OOOOH YEAH OOOOOOOH BABY YEAH
22:53:43 <oklopol> it's impossible to type something in the wrong window
22:54:39 <ehird`> oklopol: you meant to type that in another channel
22:54:41 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: definite 7, in case you're just asking which number you resemble most
22:54:55 <ehird`> (oklopol most resembles a 3.)
22:55:06 <ehird`> Actually I think bsmntbombdood is more like 6.
22:55:06 <oklopol> ehird`: yes, but i'm the guy who solved the halting problem
22:55:18 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: fun pseudopsychology relations!
22:55:38 <ehird`> i am not 4! Although I may be like the number 4. :P
22:55:56 <ehird`> Sgeo is... 15 or something
22:56:05 <oklopol> hmm, should i sleep for 6 hours or just stay awake...
22:57:40 <ehird`> Sgeo: we're not talking about age :P
22:59:21 <oklopol> hmm... or not, it was long ago
23:00:11 <Sgeo> 5 would make sense, because 'S'
23:01:01 <ehird`> Sgeo: nah, it's more your personality + typing style that factors in
23:01:08 <ehird`> though pikhq's name goes some way to making him 7
23:01:43 <Sgeo> What do you consider my typing style to be like/
23:01:50 <oklopol> i can do alphabet substitution as fast as i speak
23:01:59 <oklopol> the other way around, i don't remember
23:02:30 <oklopol> none of my friends know it, nor learned it when i did
23:02:31 <oklopol> so i haven't really used it
23:03:23 <oklopol> also, me and a friend designed a substitution alphabet called lopiselepi, that was kinda neat, unfortunately once again i was the only one to ever learn it :D
23:06:45 <Sgeo> oklopol, I'd assume your friend learned it too..
23:08:11 <ehird`> Sgeo: did ben olmstead learn malbolge?
23:08:16 <oklopol> then you assume incorrectly
23:08:18 <oklopol> i have three other friends who've tried to learn it though
23:08:45 <Sgeo> Ben Olmstead? *takes a contextual guess*
23:09:02 <oklopol> unfortunately people don't seem to be able to learn an alphabet no matter how many memory pegs you give them
23:27:02 <ehird`> FOODLESNAPOMGLOFFENERWAGOOO
23:40:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:40:15 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:10:29 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:15:27 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:19:04 <GregorR> "... was almost the victim of an assassination attempt by ..."
00:19:14 <GregorR> Can you be /almost/ a victim of an assassination /attempt/?
00:28:54 <pikhq> (granted, I *was* when I acquired the name)
00:32:55 <Sgeo> How did you come up with pikhq?
00:43:46 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:51:12 <pikhq> I was trying to create a website called "Pikachu's Headquarters", or "pikhq" for short.
00:52:39 <GregorR> pikhq.respect -= infinity;
00:54:31 <pikhq> GregorR: At the age of 7.
00:54:50 <pikhq> Before anything but the Pokemon game was released in the US.
00:54:55 <pikhq> Before the game was even popular.
01:10:07 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
01:45:43 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:46:54 <Slereah> Where can I find an interpreter or compiler for Unlambda on windows?
02:28:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
02:42:56 <Slereah> Last time I tried to install Linux, I had bad surprises.
02:43:02 <Slereah> I'm not very computer savvy.
02:43:32 <Slereah> I could use the on-CD version, but it's a whole lot of trouble.
02:47:23 <bsmntbombdood> ooh interesting: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=365703&cid=21415869
03:12:23 -!- immibis has joined.
03:12:51 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:18:43 * immibis has been signed up to two online sites, by someone else, WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION.
03:21:06 <bsmntbombdood> seccomp keeps your proccess from using ANY syscall but exit,read,write,sigreturn
03:41:32 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Now if you will excuse me, I have a).
03:50:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
04:05:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:06:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:16:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:28:38 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
07:05:59 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:14:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
07:30:04 -!- immibis has joined.
07:38:30 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/plof/plof3.html (RFC on just the internal stack language)
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:26 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2).
08:15:37 <bsmntbombdood> Because it was a fifty fifty shot on wheter you'd be going left or right. You see we're both going left. You could have just as easily been going left, too. And if that was the case... It would have been a while before you started getting scared. But since you're going the other way, I'm afraid you're gonna have to start getting scared... immediately!
08:49:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
12:23:44 -!- jix has joined.
12:45:21 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
12:57:04 -!- dbc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:09:09 <Slereah> Shouldn't ```sii`.ai print a double a?
13:22:08 <Slereah> ``.ai`.ai works, why not ```sii`.ai?
14:24:19 -!- ehird`_ has joined.
14:25:06 -!- ehird`_ has changed nick to ehird`.
14:25:29 <ehird`> i notice the logs linked has changed
14:25:34 <ehird`> ircbrowse not 1337 enough? :P
14:26:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:28:56 -!- asiekierka has joined.
14:29:24 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:35:47 -!- ehird1 has joined.
14:48:00 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
14:53:38 -!- dbc has joined.
15:09:20 -!- asiekierka has left (?).
15:25:57 -!- sebbu has joined.
15:42:46 -!- ehird1 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:47:27 -!- ehird` has joined.
16:10:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:10:25 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:20:31 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:46:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:46:37 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:47:56 -!- asie_dead has joined.
16:48:23 <asie_dead> I'm looking for an easy to implement esoteric language that's not brainfuck, not deadfish, and has under 7 commands.
16:48:49 -!- asie_dead has changed nick to asiekierka.
16:48:51 -!- asiekierka has quit.
16:49:07 -!- asiekierka has joined.
16:49:19 <ehird`> asiekierka of course being the only person in #esoteric who couldn't just make their own in 2 minutes
16:49:24 <ehird`> oh, you're waiting for an answer
16:49:31 <ehird`> next time i'll be less than 60 seconds
16:50:13 <asiekierka> under 7 commands, and the commands must have NO parameters.
16:51:33 <Slereah> I have a little difficulty to see what's the language!
16:51:56 <asiekierka> if you find a good language, you get a prize!
16:52:24 <asiekierka> Tried Deadfish in "ZZT", a real old GCS, i replaced square with multiply by 2, but the multiply command is (not so) slightly buggy.
16:52:39 <asiekierka> but after i multiply 64 by 2, it dosen't do every second command.
16:53:02 -!- calamari has joined.
16:53:25 <ehird`> asiekierka: 'get popular'?
16:53:28 <ehird`> why the hell do you care
16:53:47 <asiekierka> I care about my esoteric language being used more than by 1 person (me).
16:54:03 <asiekierka> Well, if it'll be okay, who'll use it?
16:54:19 <asiekierka> Brainfuck (implemented in exact same GCS. 2 TIMES)
16:54:43 <asiekierka> I will put increment, but not decrement.
16:55:08 <asiekierka> I will put start of a loop, but not an end
16:55:44 <Slereah> So that people can try to make stuff with it!
16:56:08 <asiekierka> A thing dosen't need turing-compleetness to do it
16:56:21 <asiekierka> A thing dosen't need turing-compl33tness to do it
16:56:34 <Slereah> Well, what will it be able to do!
16:56:38 <asiekierka> or like, "That thing dosen't need turing-compl33tness to do it, right?"
17:06:07 <asiekierka> Although it is often a self-imposed constraint, there is no burden on an esoteric programming language designer to make their language Turing-complete. For instance, it seems reasonable that most esolangers would rather see a language which is interesting but not Turing-complete, over a language which is Turing-complete but uninteresting.
17:07:02 <asiekierka> Although it is often a self-imposed constraint, there is no burden on an esoteric programming language designer to make their language Turing-complete. For instance, it seems reasonable that most esolangers would rather see a language which is interesting but not Turing-complete, over a language which is Turing-complete but uninteresting.
17:09:57 <asiekierka> What commands/possibilities should be there to make a language Turing-complete?
17:10:15 <asiekierka> Well, with up to 7 commands and NO params for commands possible, it'll be a turing tarpit
17:10:58 <Slereah> Hard to say. You just need to be able to recreate any other TC language.
17:11:14 <Slereah> There's some pretty strange ways for that.
17:12:28 <asiekierka> or is there any other possibility than recreating another language?
17:12:59 <Slereah> TC just mean that it is equivalent to a Turing machine.
17:13:11 <Slereah> If it is, you should be able to recreate one with the language.
17:14:24 <asiekierka> Output is there already (not a command)
17:15:20 <Slereah> Everything outputs as the head moves?
17:15:27 <Slereah> Won't that be a little messy?
17:15:50 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command
17:17:15 <Slereah> Does the moving loop back?
17:17:54 <Slereah> Yes, I'm not very good with technical term
17:18:03 <Slereah> And now that I think of it, my question doesn't make sense.
17:18:06 <Sgeo> Oh, does the tape wrap around?
17:18:22 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command.
17:18:31 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command.
17:18:45 <ehird`> oh gawd, is asiekierka at it again
17:19:30 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:19:45 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command.
17:19:47 <asiekierka> } - move to the matching [ if the bit is 1.
17:20:05 <oklopol> asiekierka: brainfuck is not a turing tarpit
17:20:14 <ehird`> oklopol: it is, just a very bloated one
17:20:33 -!- RedDak has joined.
17:20:39 <ehird`> IMO the best turing tarpit is either a Minsky machine with two registers of some sort or Bitwise Cyclic Tag
17:20:52 <ehird`> iota brings far too many semantics in with it to really be minimal
17:21:13 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:21:13 <Slereah> What's your definition of a Turing tarpit.
17:22:09 <ehird`> Slereah: semantics must be minimal, so must the syntax
17:22:16 <asiekierka> Well the same thing can be achieved with
17:22:16 <ehird`> iota has minimal syntax but a lot of semantics
17:22:31 <Slereah> I'm trying to see if I can make the very first Turing program with it.
17:22:47 <ehird`> asiekierka's language is not TC based on intuition
17:22:48 <oklopol> } - move to the previous command <<< this woudl totally own xD
17:23:04 <ehird`> with your new } definition
17:23:11 <ehird`> its most likely turing complete
17:23:18 <ehird`> but really it's very similar to brainfuck..
17:23:41 <asiekierka> but it was designed to be as easy to implement (in ZZT, an old GCS) as possible
17:25:02 <ehird`> ah, i guess you haven't learned C yet
17:25:03 <oklopol> basically you have bitchanger with do...while instead of while
17:25:25 * ehird` is perhaps bitter from his previous experience with asiekierka
17:25:49 <oklopol> someone thought of that some time ago
17:26:00 <Slereah> asiekierka likes command bondage.
17:26:18 <oklopol> ehird`: what was that experience?
17:26:27 <oklopol> anyhow, it is most likely tc.
17:26:50 <oklopol> in case i got the semantics right
17:26:54 <ehird`> oklopol: he was annoying, repeated stuff a lot, had a bot which basically flooded the channel, and kept whining about how he was only 10 years old as an excuse for all this
17:27:26 <oklopol> guess i could search myself
17:27:30 <ehird`> beh, i dunno when it was
17:27:40 <asiekierka> You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101...
17:27:40 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command.
17:27:58 <asiekierka> nope, it was like, three or four months
17:28:59 <oklopol> even if you made the array infinitely extensible
17:29:02 <ehird`> its trivially non-TC by your definition even ignoring commands
17:29:25 <oklopol> the halting problem cannot be solved for a turing complete language, it can for yours.
17:30:06 <oklopol> yours will always halt because the code is finite, and after every step, one command is lost.
17:30:25 <asiekierka> You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101...
17:30:25 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command. If the bit is 1, jump to the previous command.
17:30:30 <ehird`> that's a crazy way of proving non-TCness/TCness
17:30:41 <ehird`> "The halting problem is impossible to solve in this language! Therefore, it is TC."
17:30:51 <oklopol> asiekierka: an infinite-loop instruction won't help ya ;)
17:31:21 <oklopol> ehird`: i never said it works that way too
17:31:47 <oklopol> asiekierka: it lascks skill
17:31:55 <oklopol> just add some of that, and you've got a decent language
17:32:02 <asiekierka> You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101... The tape wraps around.
17:32:02 <asiekierka> Z - swap the bit and the bit near it, then move the pointer east.
17:32:02 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command and move the pointer west. If the bit is 1, jump to the previous command.
17:32:27 <ehird`> asiekierka: are you going to pee your pants if i don't???
17:33:00 <Slereah> Let's invoke the ghost of Alan Turing.
17:33:00 <oklopol> asiekierka: you need to be able to jump backward *any* amount of commands
17:33:32 <oklopol> hard to say anything but lol here :\
17:33:54 <asiekierka> You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101... The tape wraps around.
17:33:54 <asiekierka> Z - swap the bit and the bit near it, then move the pointer east.
17:33:54 <asiekierka> [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command and move the pointer west. If the bit is 1, jump 1 instruction after the nearest [, or 1 instruction after if there's none.
17:34:24 <ehird`> methinks asiekierka should learn about how languages work before trying to write one
17:36:23 <ehird`> i forgot you can make esolangs
17:36:27 <ehird`> without knowing about languages!
17:36:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
17:37:21 <asiekierka> my esolang != esojokelang != esolang != lang
17:37:31 <Slereah> Well, they technically all are a subset of languages.
17:37:47 <asiekierka> Who tested mine against Turing-compleetness?
17:37:58 <Slereah> My keyboard doesn't have a belong sign, butt.
17:38:50 <oklopol> asiekierka: you guessed wrong, anyhow, i agree with ehird` here
17:38:53 <ehird`> (asiekierka does not realise not everyone is interested in every single thing he does every second of their day)
17:39:24 <oklopol> asiekierka: you really 10?
17:40:02 <asiekierka> If you're really interesed in every esolang i do every minute of you're day, #asie_esolangs
17:40:13 <asiekierka> it will be the OFFICIAL BETA-TEST PAGE BEFORE PUBLISHING HERE
17:40:36 <asiekierka> Please, join #asie_esolangs if you're interesed in every esolang i do every minute of your day.
17:40:47 <asiekierka> I'm very limited by time, going in a hour or so
17:40:56 <oklopol> wish i was 10 and knew what esolangs are...
17:41:51 <Slereah> I didn't knew how to program until I was 19.
17:42:05 <Slereah> Esolangs were a long way off!
17:42:20 <oklopol> cool, another one older than me
17:47:52 <oklopol> median is correct, how lucky
17:48:07 <Slereah> What, the value with the largest population?
17:50:28 <oklopol> it's the least intuitive one of them all.
17:55:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
17:59:23 <oklopol> i'm gonna do some pointless math now, cya ->
18:00:22 <ehird`> asiekierka is now having a seizuer
18:00:52 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:01:02 -!- jix has joined.
18:11:25 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
18:27:22 <GregorR> If I announce PSL as an esoteric language, then will you give me comments on it? :P
18:27:55 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/plof/plof3.html (It's not an esolang, but I want it to be a usable stacklanguage before I build a real language on it)
18:35:04 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:37:57 <GregorR> oerjan, pass judgment unto my bytecode!
18:39:37 <oerjan> BYTECODE, THOU WILT PERISH IN THE SEA THAT BURNETH WITH FIRE AND SULPHUR
18:39:52 <GregorR> But more specifically, http://www.codu.org/plof/plof3.html
18:40:13 <GregorR> It's partially modeled on Glass (weeeh stack-based object-oriented languages)
18:41:00 <oerjan> I SEE. IN THAT CASE, REPLACE SULPHUR BY SILICON.
18:41:36 <oerjan> might be appropriate for programs in any case
18:41:44 <Slereah> Burning in fire and silicon?
18:41:49 <GregorR> Well, I know you can write code in it :P
18:42:14 <GregorR> But I want comments like: "You ought to have an operation <x> to make <y> easier" or "shouldn't <z> be done with <a>?"
18:43:36 <oerjan> i find it somewhat amusing that you think i am competent on such matters. or sad, perhaps.
18:44:10 <GregorR> I think I need jix's opinion, since PSL should be reminiscent of Glass.
18:47:00 <oerjan> Slereah: the burning in fire and ... bit is a bit redundant, i guess, it's translated from norwegian. (it was weird there too)
18:47:34 <Slereah> Well, it is a poetic licence.
19:03:02 <oerjan> <Slereah> Where can I find an interpreter or compiler for Unlambda on windows?
19:03:25 <oerjan> just download an interpreter or compiler for one of the languages it's been implemented in
19:03:44 <Slereah> Well, I asked because the C version I found didn't compile.
19:04:00 <Slereah> But I got Hug for Haskell and the Unlambda for Haskell.
19:04:07 <oerjan> the c-refcnt one is most portable
19:04:18 <Slereah> I feel less manly with the Hug program in my computer, but it works.
19:04:28 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:04:29 <oerjan> yeah, there are several unlambdas in haskell (one is mine)
19:04:48 <Slereah> Although it isn't very practical. I must not make one typo, or the program crashes or launch!
19:04:53 <oerjan> you can use ghc and compile it properly
19:04:57 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:05:08 <oerjan> the glasgow haskell compiler
19:06:01 <Slereah> I mainly downloaded the first Haskell that had a .exe instead of them .gz extensions.
19:06:09 * Sgeo feels like torturing norns
19:08:03 * Sgeo is making something that will torture to death any norns that come in from the warp
19:08:18 <ehird`> Minimize your instruction set.
19:08:47 <ehird`> You don't need most of that crap if you add some memory and some read/store instructions
19:08:53 <ehird`> e.g. "array" can be implemented in it trivially
19:09:12 <ehird`> also make push0-push8 a "grab" thing, which takes the number off the top of the stack
19:30:29 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/plne_fun_1.png
19:31:46 <Slereah> They made any after the 3?
19:31:53 <Slereah> Or am I just of short memory.
19:32:10 <Sgeo> Docking Station
19:32:26 <Sgeo> And if you have Creatures 3, you can dock it to DS
19:32:31 <oerjan> <Slereah> ``.ai`.ai works, why not ```sii`.ai?
19:32:42 <Sgeo> http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/Docking_Station
19:32:58 <Slereah> I asked another chan for that. Apparently the .x isn't evaluated at the end or something!
19:33:01 <oerjan> because unlambda is strictly evaluated, `.ai is evaluated only once
19:33:28 <oerjan> which is passed to the result of ``sii
19:34:35 <Slereah> So much for the mockingbird.
19:34:53 <oerjan> however ``sii works fine in other situations
19:35:13 <Slereah> Well, yes. But how does the repeat printing works then?
19:35:48 * ehird` wonders if ANSI Common Lisp counts as an esolang
19:36:23 <Slereah> Well, repeating printing something without just writing it a lot.
19:36:43 <Slereah> I'm sorry, I just don't know many technical terms.
19:37:30 <oerjan> infinitely or a fixed number of times? church numerals are nice for the latter
19:38:12 <Slereah> How will Church numeral works any differently than in the SII case?
19:38:30 <oerjan> ````sii.ai should work, btw
19:39:04 <Slereah> I'll lambda that, see if I can understand better!
19:39:46 <oerjan> or alternatively, ``<n>.ai for a church numeral <n>
19:40:33 <ehird`> if Common Lisp >IS< esoteric then it's probably the most widely deployed and praised esolang
19:41:14 <Slereah> Oh. So I have (.a.a)I instead of (.aI)(.aI)
19:41:57 <oerjan> it's the application of .a that prints the a
19:42:02 <Slereah> I guess I'll just have to read the full unlambda page.
19:42:13 <oerjan> it doesn't matter what you apply it to
19:42:25 <oerjan> .a = i, except for the printing
19:42:33 <Sgeo> Slereah, thoughts on DS?
19:42:47 <oerjan> <ehird`> i notice the logs linked has changed
19:42:55 <Slereah> Yes, but if I just write `.a.a, there's only one a.
19:43:10 <ehird`> Slereah: Docking Station, i would imagine
19:43:11 <oerjan> i changed it when ircbrowse was dead for several days
19:43:13 <ehird`> as he last linked to it
19:43:30 <Slereah> Well, it's been a while since I played Creature 3.
19:43:30 <oerjan> could change it back now if we want
19:43:39 <Slereah> I didn't really like that much the spaceship concept.
19:43:59 <Sgeo> Although that's worse as far as a spaceship concept I guess
19:44:12 <Sgeo> the um.. world is in space
19:44:21 <Sgeo> Capillata I think
19:44:27 <Slereah> Well, it already was in the 3!
19:44:36 <Slereah> Possibly the 2 as well, I don't remember.
19:44:58 <Sgeo> But with DS, your norns can travel to other players' worlds..
19:45:05 <Sgeo> And they can come to your world
19:45:08 <oerjan> although it is rather slow at the time, so i don't think so
19:45:37 <Sgeo> And I'm working on a device that will torture and kill norns that come to my world, so beware lol
19:45:37 <oerjan> gah, it didn't load at all
19:46:10 <Slereah> With that mud cannon thing?
19:46:53 <Sgeo> Slereah, no, although that is a possibility I guess
19:46:56 <ehird`> Someone rate the evilness of this idea from 1-10:
19:47:02 <ehird`> Compiling Brainfuck code to JVM bytecode.
19:47:10 <ehird`> (Oh yes I am writing a program to do that!)
19:47:35 <Sgeo> I'm making my own agent, and it will effectively slap incoming norns repeatedly, and make sure they DIE
19:47:46 <Sgeo> and make them feel PAIN!
19:47:48 <oerjan> brainfuck is easy to compile
19:47:53 <ehird`> oerjan: Yes, but to the fucking JVM
19:47:59 <oerjan> or so i hear, never tried :D
19:48:02 <Sgeo> It will also send a message to whoever sent me the norn
19:48:07 <Slereah> What if your norns come near it?
19:48:15 <ehird`> Sgeo: I could never do that when playing Creatures. I always felt sorry for the poor thing after about 3 slaps :P
19:48:18 <Sgeo> Nothing to do with proximity
19:48:28 <Sgeo> It will do it to all incoming norns
19:48:36 <Sgeo> It will be invisible too
19:48:42 <Sgeo> Although you can hear the shouts
19:48:42 <Slereah> What if your norns leave and come back? :O
19:48:45 <ehird`> I think I might have had less of a problem with it if they didn't keep trying to tell me to stop in the process
19:49:01 <Sgeo> Then my norns die, I care for them LESS than innocent norns from the warp
19:49:19 <Slereah> What if your innocent Grendels die?
19:49:35 <Sgeo> It's going to attack any incoming creatures
19:49:37 <oerjan> ehird`: can you get that bf adventure game to run on the web? :)
19:49:52 <oerjan> in which case, i'll raise you to a 7
19:50:00 <ehird`> oerjan: I probably can.
19:50:18 <ehird`> oerjan: Instead of compiling to input/output statements, use some kind of textbox with awt
19:50:20 <Sgeo> I'm hatching norns to be slaughtered in this manner
19:50:32 <Sgeo> Now I'm working on the messaging thing
19:50:38 <ehird`> oerjan: But it'll be slooow. As I'm not planning on optimizations for now.
19:50:50 <Slereah> Sgeo : Once your system is complete, send invitations.
19:50:58 <ehird`> I just like the JVM, really. I don't care for the Java language in any way, but I like Swing and the VM
19:51:17 <Sgeo> The warp doesn't quite work like that
19:51:27 <Sgeo> Unless you mean messaging random people..
19:51:40 <Slereah> Well, random people for random killings.
19:53:04 <ehird`> What's a kind-of-hard-to-compiler (at least, harder than BF) language?
19:53:11 <Sgeo> Slereah, are you getting DS?
19:53:14 <ehird`> Ooh, I could try compiling Befunge->JVM :D
19:55:09 <ehird`> oerjan: Actually, how DO the befunge compilers do it?
19:55:21 <ehird`> For a while I know that it was thought to be impossible.
20:02:41 <oerjan> i don't know, never looked at them
20:02:57 <asiekierka> Please rate the evilness of this idea from 1 to 10:
20:03:22 <asiekierka> Combine all esoteric languages into one and write an interpreter in BASIC and don't release the source code and make it extremely slow.
20:03:32 <oerjan> i assume they sort of compile the initial state, with some way to check if a cell has changed
20:03:54 <oerjan> since most befunge programs probably are not that self-modifying
20:04:11 <ehird`> hooray! asiekierka is being an annoying idiot again!
20:04:24 <ehird`> and then spammed the channel
20:04:37 <ehird`> and also asked a stupid question with no use in having an answer
20:04:38 <asiekierka> and then made some dots because i'm waiting for answer
20:04:45 <Sgeo> asiekierka, how do you plan on combining all esoteric languages?
20:04:53 <Sgeo> How do you plan on FINDING them, even?
20:05:09 <Sgeo> As though everything's on that wiki..
20:05:09 <Slereah> There's like a few hundred of them.
20:05:11 <asiekierka> how? I'll just put every crappier function of all languages
20:05:13 <ehird`> Sgeo: ignore him. he's an idiot.
20:05:14 <oerjan> i rate evilness <<< amount of work
20:05:35 <ehird`> asiekierka: You made tons of dots TWO MINUTES after you asked it! WE DO NOT SIT HERE WAITING FOR YOU TO ASK A QUESTION SO WE CAN IMMEDIATELY ANSWER IT.
20:05:41 <Sgeo> Semantic meaningless: 100
20:06:14 <Sgeo> What would it mean to combine all esolangs?
20:06:25 <ehird`> Sgeo: asiekierka doesn't know himself, he's just trying to get attention...
20:06:31 <asiekierka> Put every crappiest function from ALL languages
20:06:59 <oerjan> asiekierka: the most interesting esoteric languages are not defined solely by their functions, but by how they fit together
20:07:33 * Sgeo works on his norn torturing and murdering machine
20:07:42 <Sgeo> ^^more attention getting by me..
20:07:43 <asiekierka> why it's so hard to make an esoteric language?
20:07:49 <Slereah> Otherwise, it would be easy to make a language full of useless function!
20:07:54 <oklopol> i think Sgeo is the evil one here.
20:08:06 <Slereah> Like for instance, a function which makes the super mario theme on the PC speaker.
20:08:32 <ehird`> asiekierka: STEP 1. Learn to actually use languages and how they work. STEP 2. You don't need this step!
20:08:43 <Slereah> "Esoteric language" is a vague term.
20:08:56 <Sgeo> asiekierka, you just come up with an idea for a programing language that no sane person would want to use..
20:08:57 <Slereah> STEP 4 : There is no step 5.
20:09:18 * oklopol promises to write a book on esoteric languages some day in case no one does it first
20:09:37 <ehird`> asiekierka: you did that crap with the rules last time you spammed up this place
20:10:01 <oerjan> asiekierka: there was a collective effort to make an esoteric language some months ago by everyone submitting different parts, the resulting mess was so horrible we didn't even _try_ to fit it together
20:10:06 <ehird`> it's not funny, it's really annoying
20:10:10 <Sgeo> oerjan, we gave up?
20:10:34 <oerjan> ok it _may_ be we just lost interest as usual :D
20:11:09 <oerjan> but it still was a horrible mess that no one knew how to fit together
20:11:13 <ehird`> \_/"\_/ I CAN MAKE USELESS SYMBOLS TOO
20:11:15 <ehird`> \_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/
20:11:17 * Slereah is trying to make an esolang.
20:11:25 * Sgeo is the main interest loser he.. I'm bored. I think I'll do something completely different now.
20:11:27 <Slereah> But with what I know of regular languages, it's hard
20:11:38 <oerjan> and fitting _all_ esolangs together would obviously be worse.
20:11:39 <oklopol> ehird`: don't be so mean on asiekierka :\
20:11:52 <ehird`> oklopol: he was deeply annoying and stupid last time he's in here
20:11:56 <ehird`> so far he does not seem to be improving
20:12:05 <Sgeo> oerjan, at least no one submitted something that implies it would be a 2D language
20:12:43 * ehird` thinks he'll be evil and implement the BF tape as local variables in java
20:12:50 <oklopol> ehird`: i recommend you remind yourself of immibis before talking about annoying ;)
20:13:12 <ehird`> oklopol: immibis, i've seen the name in here but do not recall them ever talking
20:13:18 <Sgeo> Bye asiekierka, and you only need to say it once
20:13:19 <ehird`> asiekierka: saying it once works too
20:13:21 -!- asiekierka has quit.
20:13:25 <ehird`> with only one casing...
20:13:50 <oklopol> ehird`: whut :\ he used to spam this channel 24/7
20:13:55 * Sgeo goes to continue working on the autospammer
20:14:02 <Sgeo> NO not an autospammer
20:14:08 -!- oklopol has changed nick to immibis.
20:14:10 <ehird`> Sgeo: we already have one it's called asiekierka
20:14:29 -!- immibis has changed nick to Ooklopol.
20:14:31 <Sgeo> Slereah, no, a misstatement on my part
20:14:42 <ehird`> which is in the topic, so i guess he isn't hated here or anything
20:14:48 <ehird`> I test my bots in here a lot too
20:15:00 -!- Ooklopol has changed nick to oklopol.
20:15:22 <oklopol> nothing wrong with immibis, but he's definately the floodiest guy ever.
20:17:14 <Sgeo> I can be floody if I.. no I can't..
20:19:17 <oerjan> Sgeo: Das vill be repression due to die trauma at die anal stage
20:19:19 <oklopol> the great thing about immibis was he was able to spam multiple channels semi-manually (no 100% bot loops) while not seeming to realize it at all
20:19:37 <Sgeo> semi-manually?
20:20:05 <Sgeo> Yes, but what did he say that caused it?
20:20:30 <Sgeo> maybe rest self sgeo
20:22:56 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> maybe rest self sgeo
20:23:02 <Sgeo> look familiar?
20:23:19 <oklopol> why, he had floditis immaturitis, of course
20:23:25 <Slereah> Yes. There's the very same like 5 lines above.
20:23:35 <Slereah> So I have kind of a dj vu feeling.
20:23:47 <Sgeo> I meant, wrt Creatures3
20:24:37 <Sgeo> wrt = with relation to
20:25:18 <Slereah> Well, my last game was at least one year ago.
20:25:26 <Slereah> But I do recall them having bad grammar.
20:31:30 <Slereah> Really, the ` function in unlambda is an annoying character.
20:33:34 <Slereah> Well, the interpreter I have crashes if I type something wrong, and he only accepts `+space to display `.
20:33:45 <Slereah> And for some reason, I can't copypasta.
20:35:17 <oerjan> cannot paste into hugs running programs, yeah
20:35:41 <Slereah> You'd think a program called hug would be more user friendly.
20:35:45 <oerjan> what do you mean by crashing?
20:36:11 <Slereah> Well, there's a program error, and I have to restart everything.
20:37:06 <oerjan> btw it can take file input
20:37:49 <Slereah> "This is an interpreter of the Unlambda language, written in - the pure, lazy, functional language Haskell. - - Copyright (C) 2001 by rjan Johansen "
20:38:35 <Slereah> How does the file input works?
20:40:28 <Slereah> So you're the one writing the unlambda in INTERCAL too?
20:40:38 <Slereah> And making me scream of the madness of you people!
20:41:04 <Slereah> Functional esolangs seem like the orphans of the esolangs.
20:41:08 * ehird` wonders how he could make his BF->JVM compiler more evil
20:41:26 <Slereah> ehird` : Make a function that plays a sinister tune.
20:42:32 * Sgeo is going to move a norn into space
20:42:37 <Sgeo> Without air, presumably
20:42:52 <Slereah> Ah yes, the old decompression chamber near the engine.
20:44:28 <Sgeo> Not quite like that
20:44:33 <Sgeo> She's at the title screen now
20:44:42 <Slereah> "A note about evaluation order: when Unlambda is evaluating an expression `FG, it evaluates F first, and then G"
20:44:45 * ehird` just realised that he doesn't know how to execute some bytecode in java
20:44:49 <Slereah> Is that why my SII didn't worked?
20:45:55 <oerjan> although in the `i.a case it's more that printing only happens when .a is applied _to_ something
20:46:01 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/title_screen_norn.png
20:46:23 <ehird`> java should have a java.lang.runByteCode or something :P
20:46:25 <oerjan> application happens after _both_ parts have been evaluated, btw
20:46:27 <Slereah> Any particular reason why?
20:46:55 <oklopol> strictness is easy to implement...
20:47:26 <Sgeo> I did `targ norn mvsf 0 0`
20:47:35 <oklopol> hmm, now Lazy K, is that just lazy SKI? i'm too lazy to wiki right now
20:47:52 <Sgeo> Slereah, which norn's creepy? The real norn, or the purple one that's part of the title screen?
20:47:57 <ehird`> Lazy K has many syntaxes
20:48:03 <oklopol> (damn, forgot to make a pun)
20:48:03 <Slereah> Although it can also work with *i
20:48:49 <oklopol> perhaps i *should* check it out then,.
20:49:24 <oerjan> all the unlambda functions except d (delay) only do things when applied to something
20:49:47 <oerjan> er, that's not quite right
20:50:21 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/title_screen_w_map.png
20:50:25 <oerjan> primitive functions, i should say
20:50:45 <oerjan> expressions may of course apply their parts during evaluation
21:02:29 <ehird`> I wonder what the most complex esolang is.
21:21:59 <oerjan> well for a different "complex", i guess quantum brainfuck could also qualify :)
21:30:25 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:41:41 -!- lifthrasiir has quit ("to recover corrupted irc logs").
21:42:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
21:55:29 <oerjan> This is not an incredible predictable answer
22:00:48 -!- RedDak has joined.
22:04:19 -!- ehird` has quit (No route to host).
22:05:11 -!- ehird` has joined.
22:09:14 <oerjan> OBSCURE COUNTEREXAMPLE
22:17:18 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:19:23 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
22:28:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
22:32:47 <ehird`> random, esoteric and computer-related (although not programming-language-related) idea: is there a language-sensitive diff? you could get patches that don't die horribly with two different formattings (code-style that is) of the same source, etc.
22:38:46 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:38:46 -!- Eulogy has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:40:39 -!- Overand has joined.
22:40:39 -!- Eulogy has joined.
22:43:55 -!- Eulogy_ has joined.
22:44:13 -!- Eulogy has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:44:51 -!- Overand_ has joined.
22:44:54 -!- Overand has quit (Broken pipe).
22:45:06 -!- Overand_ has changed nick to Overand.
22:47:08 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
22:50:18 <ehird`> oklopol: you know, diff(1)
22:59:25 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:25 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:25 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:25 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:25 -!- ehird` has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- calamari has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- helios24_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:26 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:28 -!- Jontte has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:29 -!- Eulogy_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:29 -!- Slereah has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:29 -!- oerjan has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:29 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:30 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:30 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
22:59:31 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
23:01:12 -!- sebbu has joined.
23:01:12 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
23:01:12 -!- Overand has joined.
23:01:12 -!- Eulogy_ has joined.
23:01:12 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
23:01:12 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:01:12 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:01:12 -!- calamari has joined.
23:01:12 -!- dbc has joined.
23:01:12 -!- Slereah has joined.
23:01:12 -!- helios24_ has joined.
23:01:12 -!- SimonRC has joined.
23:01:12 -!- johnk_ has joined.
23:01:12 -!- fizzie has joined.
23:01:12 -!- Jontte has joined.
23:01:12 -!- sekhmet has joined.
23:01:12 -!- cmeme has joined.
23:01:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:01:12 -!- oklopol has joined.
23:01:12 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:01:12 -!- GregorR has joined.
23:01:12 -!- zuzu has joined.
23:01:12 -!- mtve has joined.
23:01:24 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
23:01:24 -!- AnMaster has joined.
23:04:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
23:04:03 <oerjan> the snow here has rained away again, for now
23:06:17 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
23:07:09 * oerjan hates it when irssi misses that a bunch of rejoins are from netsplits
23:20:53 -!- ehird` has joined.
23:21:51 <ehird`> WAIT. WHAT DID I MISS. THIS IS IMPORTANT.
23:22:55 <oerjan> * oerjan hates it when irssi misses that a bunch of rejoins are from netsplits
23:24:12 <oerjan> about the weather, on net and off
23:24:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out).
23:25:03 <oerjan> Sgeo_: irssi tries to summarize netsplits and netjoins, but sometimes it fails entirely and dumps a page of noise
23:25:54 <oerjan> not a problem on this channel, but annoying on #haskell which has ~400 users
23:27:29 <ehird`> once there was a netsplit in #ubuntu and about 400 people disappeared
23:28:12 <ehird`> hm, there should be some kind of standard (probably not official :P) defining an api for graphics interfaces
23:28:17 <ehird`> just the api, not the actual display of them
23:28:32 <ehird`> so e.g. someone could write one that wraps around a toolkit, or various toolkits
23:28:40 <ehird`> its a cloud dream I know :-)
23:29:27 * oerjan wonders if it's called html DOM
23:40:21 <ehird`> html is hardly ideal for writing a desktop app
23:40:31 <ehird`> no matter what the "2.0" proponents would like to have you believe
23:40:42 <ehird`> on another note, i am going to generate a brainfuck "hello world" using natural selection.
23:47:32 -!- KrimZon has joined.
23:47:51 <ehird`> !bf >[+.->->]+>[.>[+]>][>.+>]-->>>->>>>+>.++>>>+>
23:48:01 <ehird`> my program started off with that
23:48:14 <ehird`> it must output something
23:48:19 <ehird`> so i guess its a non-printable character
23:59:03 <ehird`> [>>.>>>]>>-..>.-[].>-[-]>[[>>+[+>>[].++[.>->.[.>..>>[>[-+.[.>>]-[.].+[+-+[..>.[]->[-.-.].[]->.].>+]>]]>++]]+>[+.>>+++>--+-+>]>>+[[[].>].->-[-.>+-]>>>]>>>>][>][-]>-+>..+->>>[]+>>].]>>>[]+.>>>->->+.->[+.[.[>.+]+->-.]>>]->[+>->-[>[++]>..>.+[>.+.+.][[-->>-.]][>+[>.-]>>.>>-]][>+[+>.-+>+[+[>[[->[.>-]]]]]]]]
23:59:09 <ehird`> im pretty sure that doesn't print hello world
00:01:34 <ehird`> i wonder how many mellenia it'll take me to get to hello world
00:09:48 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:10:53 <ehird`> if i keep generating and mutating programs at random, odds are extremely high i'll hit it :)
00:11:06 <ehird`> .>+-+>+>+[>>.[]].+>->>.->>.+[>->][[.[-]..+---[->>]]>..>>>][+]+>>+>>>>>-[+[]]
00:11:06 <ehird`> "\000\000\000\000\000"
00:11:10 <ehird`> see? I get output already! ;)
00:11:16 <ehird`> although mostly i'm hitting inf-loops
00:12:01 <ehird`> that program outputted a shitload of \377
00:13:09 <ehird`> >-+>.>>->.>>>+..[[>[>[[>>[>>[+>>.>+>>>>[-->]>>..+[+].[>[>>[>>-.].>>-->>][>>+>-.[>[.+-]>]+[+[>-+-->]]>.]>-.[.[.+>>[+>>][[>>-++]+>[][[+.[+.>]>-]-.[>[+..[-+>..->.>]][+-]>]]]]]]]]]]]]]
00:13:14 <ehird`> outputs "\000\000\001\001"
00:13:20 <ehird`> not bad, really, it's getting differing output ;)
00:24:44 * Sgeo_ goes to murder yet another innocent norn
00:25:31 -!- calamari has joined.
00:27:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:27:59 * Sgeo_ likes murdering norns
00:28:07 <Sgeo_> Although this last one died painlessly
00:31:19 <Sgeo_> The last one died of old age, actually.. admittedly, it was 0 minutes old and artificially aged, but still..
00:32:45 <Sgeo_> 'me push sgeo' how cute
00:35:43 <Sgeo_> And there's the more painful method, which fills it with pain constantly and attacks its internal organs
00:35:53 <Sgeo_> And you get to hear the norns scream
00:38:41 -!- graue has joined.
00:40:25 * oerjan wouldn't want to mess horribly with goddesses of fate, himself. or maybe he would.
00:42:04 <Sgeo_> It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about
01:56:44 -!- KrimZon has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:21:04 -!- immibis has joined.
02:29:32 <Sgeo_> Oh, I didn't mention in here that I grew another hand
02:29:54 <Sgeo_> http://forums.gamewaredevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=6299
02:39:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
02:50:01 <GreaseMonkey> there's some really funky stuff you can do with windows
02:50:39 <GreaseMonkey> you can steal the windows 3.1 kernel from the windows 95 and 98 setup CDs
02:51:18 <GreaseMonkey> in the win98 ones, they're under mini.cab, precopy1.cab, and precopy2.cab
02:51:42 <GreaseMonkey> note that you WILL need to find a windows 3.1 shell
02:52:02 <GreaseMonkey> then you run xmsmmgr.exe from the CD, and dosx.exe from where you extracted the stuff
02:53:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("ZZRNKRK").
02:56:37 <pikhq> GreaseMonkey: progmgr.exe is the Windows 3.1 shell.
02:56:47 <pikhq> It's in one of the Win95 cabs. ;)
02:57:11 <GreaseMonkey> oh, and you can do pretty much the reverse under windows 3.1 by using winfile.exe as a shell
02:59:29 <dbc> You know what has a terrible user interface? The oboe. I used to play it when I was a kid. Ick.
03:01:33 <pikhq> GreaseMonkey: Also, install Win32s.
03:01:48 <pikhq> (it's a subset of the Win32 API, which works under Windows 3.1. ;))
03:06:25 <GregorR> GreaseMonkey, pikhq: Alternatively, you could install Windows 3.1.
03:07:33 <GregorR> Time now to port WINE to Windows 3.1?
03:13:04 <GreaseMonkey> oh, as it turns out, winfile.exe was designed to be run as the windows 3.1 shell, but notepad.exe wasn't.
03:18:26 <graue> dbc: i've heard the violin is better
03:57:26 <immibis> two men are sitting in a bar: Rob V. Bert and Ivanna B. Kikked.
04:09:43 <GreaseMonkey> hehe: http://img.romerican.com/post070209_microsoft_windows_vista_wow_marketing_advertising_campaign.jpg
04:22:17 <immibis> puzzlet: say that out loud
04:24:20 <immibis> no, say it aloud. what does it sound like?
04:24:30 <immibis> it sounds like "I wanna be kicked"
04:24:56 <graue> joke only works if you are an op, who can kick people from the channel
04:27:39 <immibis> bug: esolangs wiki returns errors from MediaWikiBagOStuff at seemingly random times.
04:31:23 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Give a man a fish and he will eat f).
05:03:15 -!- Sgeo_ has quit ("Ex-Chat").
06:42:13 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:37:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten.").
09:52:12 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
10:23:13 -!- ais523 has joined.
11:14:54 -!- dbc has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:26:29 -!- Eulogy_ has changed nick to Eulogy.
11:36:28 -!- Slereah- has joined.
11:49:53 -!- asiekierka has joined.
11:50:38 <asiekierka> it'll be an OISC, but it'll NOT use subleq :/
11:50:44 -!- Eulogy has left (?).
11:52:40 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:59:02 <ais523> have you seen noit o' mnain worb?
11:59:23 <ais523> it's not quite an OISC, but making transistor-like components seems to be the easiest way to program in it
12:08:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
12:20:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
12:29:07 <oklopol> on another note, i am going to generate a brainfuck "hello world" using natural selection. <<< me too!
12:33:45 <EgoBot> 124 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.>>-.+++.------.--------.<+. [305]
12:45:49 <ais523> !daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774
12:46:40 <ais523> I don't think it's possible to do better than that in Underload, and a natural selection program would likely find that quickly if at all well written
12:46:44 <ais523> Malbolge, on the other hand...
12:54:31 <ais523> !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.>>-.+++.------.--------.<+.
13:28:33 <asiekierka> !bf_txtgen Hello guys! I'm the man of the year, asiekierka.
13:28:54 <ais523> I don't think the txtgen code is very efficient
13:29:37 <asiekierka> I wonder if anybody will do an Artistic Piet Text Generator (i mean an esolang of course xD)
13:29:48 <ais523> that should leave only one of the processes running
13:32:33 <ais523> I can't think of one offhand; you might want to try asking a search engine
13:36:45 <asiekierka> !bf ++++++++++[>++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.<++.>--------.++++++++++++++.++++.------.<+.-.<+.<-.>>>------.<.>+++++++.<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.---.<-------.>++++++++.>>-------------------.<<+.>.<+.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>+++++.>++.---.<<.>+++++.>.>.<<-------.<++++++++++++.------------.>>>.<<+
13:36:47 <EgoBot> Hello guys! I'm the man of the year, a
13:38:22 <ais523> presumably it sent the whole thing, but it got cut off by the IRC servers because the line was too long
13:38:52 <ais523> I've been autokicked from the channel for typing too much on a line before, I think
13:46:22 <asiekierka> !bf +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>>.>-.++++.-------.>-----.++++.----.<++++++++.--.+++++++++.<-.<-.>>+.---.<++++++++++++++.
13:46:35 <ais523> EgoBot doesn't trigger itself
13:47:13 <ais523> sometimes the interaction of two bots has been used to do this sort of loop, though, but bsmnt_bot doesn't seem to be here at the moment
13:49:35 <asiekierka> There should be a quine printing itself, but with "!bf " at the beginning.
13:50:50 <ais523> it's normally easy to modify a quine to do that sort of thing
13:51:03 <ais523> except the famous Lisp one, because !bf isn't legal Lisp
13:52:38 <asiekierka> just to make a quine print it at the beginning, then itself.
13:54:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:54:25 -!- puzzlet has joined.
13:54:53 <ais523> the Lisp quine works by manipulating Lisp expressions rather than strings, so would need to be rewritten to print a non-lisp expression at the start
13:58:39 -!- jix has joined.
14:14:01 <oklopol> <asiekierka> There should be a quine printing itself, but with "!bf " at the beginning.
14:14:08 <oklopol> oldest trick in the book :P
14:15:32 <ais523> !ul ((!bf )SaS(:^)S):^
14:15:35 <EgoBot> !bf ((!bf )SaS(:^)S):^
14:15:48 <ais523> Underload is a pretty good language for writing quines in
14:16:13 <ais523> Of course, it should be this:
14:16:15 <ais523> !ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:16:17 <EgoBot> !ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:16:29 <ais523> !ul ((<ais523> !ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:16:31 <EgoBot> <ais523> !ul ((<ais523> !ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:16:54 <oklopol> ais523: is underload your lang?
14:17:25 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:17:26 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
14:17:28 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:17:38 <oklopol> not based on the fact you constantly use it as an example, but because i recall seeing your name on the page, for the not
14:18:14 <ehird`> i really need to write a bouncer.
14:18:19 <oklopol> underload is one of my favorite stack languages, although i haven't used it much
14:18:33 <ais523> I like Underload a lot too
14:18:43 <oklopol> ehird`: or you can just keep irc open
14:18:57 <ehird`> oklopol: the computer shuts down
14:19:14 <ehird`> heck, even when my mac gets back [soon, soon] i put it on sleep when i leave
14:19:21 <ehird`> and because this computer is noisy as fuck
14:19:41 <ehird`> also, what about when i need to reboor
14:19:51 <ehird`> my server on the other hand NEVER dies :)
14:20:00 <oklopol> i've never seen our gas bill, and my parents have never complained about my comps, don't really know how much this uses :P
14:20:19 <ehird`> once i tried leaving it on
14:20:23 <oklopol> pneumatic computer, i have it.
14:20:26 <ehird`> when the electricity bill arrived
14:20:33 <ehird`> i can tell you it was not a fun number :-)
14:26:25 <ehird`> !ul ((**ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:26:29 <EgoBot> **ul ((**ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:26:45 <ehird`> that would need me to add **ul to peyavi
14:26:55 <ehird`> "**ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^"
14:27:01 <ehird`> which is a bit harder, than the above
14:27:21 <ehird`> hey, this wsa all a few minutes ago
14:27:25 <ais523> you need to wrap it in quotes?
14:27:34 <ehird`> **ul ((**ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:27:36 <ehird`> **ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^
14:28:10 <ehird`> So basically we need: !ul program-that-produces-itself-but-with-**ul-in-front-of-it-and-in-the-program-code-**ul-replaced-with-!ul
14:28:24 <ais523> this is usually done more easily asymmetrically
14:29:08 <ehird`> but still, in underload quite a challenge
14:29:16 <ehird`> (If it was in brainfuck -- even more so)
14:30:20 <ais523> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
14:30:23 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
14:30:34 <ais523> !ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
14:30:37 <EgoBot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
14:30:50 <ehird`> ais523: Is there a reference Underload implementation? :P
14:31:01 <ais523> it's in JavaScript, linked from the wiki
14:31:01 <ehird`> Also, is there a way to make EgoBot join a channel, so we do not flood here?
14:31:14 <ais523> there's /query EgoBot, which I use
14:31:16 <ehird`> javascript :| i don't want to install spidermonkey and call it from my bot, haha
14:31:26 <ehird`> well yeah but my bot can't /query EgoBot and still let us see
14:31:32 <ais523> EgoBot's running Keymaker's Underload-in-BF program
14:31:38 <ais523> which I modified to work as an IRC daemon
14:31:59 <ais523> see http://pastebin.ca/367774
14:32:06 <ehird`> i don't have a BF impl embedded yet
14:32:35 <ehird`> also, ()^ is in no way a self-interp unless you count 'eval' as one ;)
14:33:06 <ais523> eval's a self-interpreter by cheating
14:33:45 <ehird`> maybe in e.g. CMUCL and SBCL and lots of Lisps
14:33:50 <ehird`> since they themselvs are written in lisp
14:33:55 <ehird`> but in Python or something? i wouldn't count it :P
14:34:54 <ais523> Underload maybe should have an input command that takes a character and converts it to a Church numeral
14:35:13 <ais523> 0 as a Church numeral in Underload is (!()), but the rest follow a pattern
14:35:59 <ais523> then multiplication is * and exponentiation is ^, thus the characters used for those operations
14:38:23 <ais523> of course, once you've started doing calculations on them they end up looking like mess like (:*::!()*:**), but that's what happens when your only string operations are concatenation, eval, and enclose-in-parens
14:39:49 <ais523> I posted a new Underload program to the wiki talkpage today, actually
14:40:03 <ais523> I'd been meaning to for a while, but was reminded when Keymaker posted one yesterday
14:40:51 <ehird`> ais523: this interp is obfuscated! :-)
14:41:51 <ais523> which interpreter are you referring to?
14:42:15 <ais523> My JavaScript interpreter isn't deliberately obfuscated, so if you think it's obfuscated it's because I always write like that
14:43:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
14:43:49 <ehird`> ais523: "o" is the output right?
14:44:27 <ais523> it's the textarea that holds the output, so yes
14:44:39 <ais523> p and s are the textareas that hold the program and stack
14:44:55 <ais523> and the stack elements are separated by <> because that isn't a legal string anyway in an Underload program
14:45:30 <ais523> only I forgot to implement the quoting-with-" for special characters
14:45:47 <ehird`> so if i made o a string
14:45:51 <ais523> I wonder if the BF version implements that?
14:45:52 <ehird`> and removed the timeout
14:46:58 <ais523> I think the quoting-with-" is probably now officialy not part of the language because nobody ever bothered to implement it
14:47:08 <ais523> o isn't a legal Underload command
14:47:52 <oklopol> heh, "ulos" is finnish for out :O
14:48:17 <oklopol> dunno if that's funny unless saying "o" is your standard way to test output
14:49:08 <ais523> length of time to wait before recursively calling yourself
14:49:26 <ais523> it's the way you do a slow loop in JavaScript without busy-waiting
14:49:52 <ais523> that is, once the function finishes running, it schedules the window to call itself in lp milliseconds
14:50:09 <ais523> and while it isn't running (that is, most of the time) it's possible to do other things on the same browser
14:51:15 -!- peyavi has joined.
14:51:27 <ehird`> i need to pass the stack
14:51:55 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:52:00 <ehird`> now it's tail-recursive
14:52:05 -!- peyavi has joined.
14:52:37 <ehird`> ais523: what should the stack be initially?
14:52:49 <oklopol> wonder if i'm evil enough to implement that into ololobot before you ;)
14:53:08 * ais523 doesn't even have a bot
14:53:22 <ehird`> oklopol: i've already done it, really
14:53:30 <ehird`> oklopol: just fixing 1 or 2 bugs
14:53:42 <ais523> if you're getting an empty-stack error, it may be that the (o) isn't being pushed onto the stack properly
14:53:44 <oklopol> then i'd be in a bit of a hurry.
14:53:50 <ehird`> if(s.indexOf("<>")==-1) {throw("ERROR: Empty stack");}
14:54:18 <ais523> if there's an o on the stack, then s is "o<>"
14:54:33 <ais523> with an o and a p (with the p on top) it would be "p<>o<>"
14:54:55 <ehird`> ah heck i'll implement my own
14:55:41 <ehird`> oklopol: it's really annoying how i can't even add something to my bot without you going on and on about implementing it yourself.
14:59:07 <oklopol> but... i thought it was our thing!
14:59:14 <oklopol> i have to leave anyway, now
14:59:26 <peyavi> !paste | see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
14:59:28 <peyavi> oklopol: i've already done it, really
14:59:30 <peyavi> oklopol: just fixing 1 or 2 bugs
14:59:34 <peyavi> under root user i can find most famous , "catagorised" apps for linux.
14:59:36 <peyavi> short, one is you can utilize more RAM
14:59:37 <peyavi> whats rm -rf myfolder, myfolder will be gone.
14:59:39 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:59:50 -!- peyavi has joined.
14:59:51 <ehird`> ais523: i think i fixed it
15:00:28 <oklopol> ehird`: also, may i once again remind you markov chains were my idea first ;)
15:00:44 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:00:52 <oklopol> i need to see the underload spec
15:00:53 <ehird`> oklopol: markov chains were not your idea :P
15:00:55 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:01:09 <oklopol> i mean implementing them in a bot
15:01:29 <ehird`> markov chains were in bots beforey ou did that
15:01:51 <oklopol> i mean implementing them in a bot, now
15:02:13 <oklopol> anyway, either get my point or don't
15:03:40 <oklopol> i'll make it, i'll just not put it in the bot, i'm gonna implement every lang on esolangs.org anyway
15:04:41 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:04:52 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:04:53 <peyavi> TypeError: p.value has no properties
15:05:13 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:05:23 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:07:23 -!- RedDak has joined.
15:08:34 <ais523> ehird`: have you remembered to remove all the .value suffixes from the code?
15:09:10 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:09:21 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:09:22 <ehird`> ais523: in fact, i've made it extra evil just now
15:09:24 <peyavi> ReferenceError: p is not defined
15:09:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:10:02 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:10:23 <ehird`> ok how do you invite egobot somewhere?
15:11:39 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
15:11:41 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
15:12:21 <ehird`> ok who has a copy of egobot lying around
15:12:31 <ehird`> ais523: run the infinite loop quine thing
15:12:37 <ehird`> i'll kill peyavi when the flood starts
15:12:43 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:12:50 <ais523> !ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:12:53 <EgoBot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:12:54 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:13:03 <ais523> !ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:07 <EgoBot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:23 <ais523> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:25 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:25 <peyavi> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:27 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:27 <peyavi> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:29 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:29 <peyavi> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:29 <peyavi> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:31 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:31 <peyavi> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:33 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:33 <peyavi> !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
15:13:35 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:13:35 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:13:37 <EgoBot> **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
15:15:35 <ehird`> an esoteric language designed to write esolang interpreters
15:15:48 <ais523> I'm working on at least two of those at the moment
15:16:15 <ais523> and there's Thutu, of course; its wimpmode version Thutu2 is the only language in which Forte has been implemented
15:19:00 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:19:19 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:19:30 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:19:59 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:20:05 <ais523> are you sure that you mean to be sending smart-quotes as input to the channel?
15:20:10 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:20:13 <ais523> three backquotes are likely to work better
15:20:38 <ais523> you're right, it's my client
15:20:50 <ehird`> which is why you should dump chatzilla :)
15:20:57 <ais523> I don't have any choice in the matter
15:21:31 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:21:41 -!- peyavi has joined.
15:21:47 <peyavi> ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)()~^()~^((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)()~^()~^~^
15:22:11 <peyavi> ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)
15:22:14 <peyavi> ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)(a(!)~*)~^
15:22:17 <peyavi> ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)(a(!)~*)~^(a(!)~*)~^
15:22:27 <peyavi> ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)~^
15:22:39 <peyavi> ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^~^
15:22:54 <ehird`> **ul ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^~^
15:23:04 <peyavi> ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^
15:23:09 <ais523> mistake in my program, sorry
15:23:26 <ais523> **ul ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^
15:23:31 <ais523> !ul ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^
15:24:39 <ais523> **ul (a)(b(c))(d)(e)~*:!*(S)^
15:25:01 <ehird`> standalone, spidermonkey source: http://pastebin.ca/raw/792589
15:25:10 <ehird`> syntax highlighted: http://pastebin.ca/792589
15:25:14 <ehird`> yes, the _ object is evil :)
15:25:34 * ais523 was writing another Underload interpreter during that
15:25:38 <ais523> http://pastebin.ca/792590
15:26:27 <ehird`> i'll write one functionally, in scheme
15:26:41 <ais523> mine does no error checking, though
15:34:28 <ehird`> are the only commands atm
15:34:39 <ehird`> but it has got all the infrastructure
15:34:54 <ehird`> multithreaded commands, argument parsing, helper methods, etc
15:34:57 <ehird`> just not many real commands :-)
15:36:25 <ehird`> I wish there was a Scheme implementation like regular, CL Lisps
15:36:29 <ehird`> I find them amusing :-)
15:36:38 <ehird`> with their core image files and their full VMs and everything
15:36:48 <ehird`> it's so detached from the OS or anything
15:36:52 <ehird`> still, MIT scheme is pretty close
15:37:47 <ehird`> .. I also wish there was an editor other than Emacs that works well with scheme. :|
15:38:37 <ais523> I'm sure that one exists
15:38:59 <ais523> whether it's easy to obtain a copy is another matter
15:40:29 <ehird`> bah, mit scheme doesn't implement enough srfis for me
15:40:32 <ehird`> time to find another impl
15:40:54 <ehird`> i wish there was an agreement of what scheme interpreter to use
15:41:26 <ehird`> I guess scheme48/PLT scheme are the main choices
15:41:49 <ais523> I suppose you could just implement scheme in Common Lisp or vice versa
15:41:59 <ehird`> but common lisp makes me sad :P
15:42:15 <ehird`> the only thing i like about common lisp is its weird systems :P
15:44:25 <ais523> How many implementations of Underload does that make now?
15:44:52 <ais523> There's the original JS, the modified JS, the BF, the Thutu, and the Perl (not counting the self-interpreter-by-cheating)
15:46:22 <ehird`> and now my scheme when gauche installs
16:06:26 * ais523 has just come across a great Ben Olmstead quote
16:07:01 <ais523> "I think Malbolge needs an update. I may write Visual M++ 2008 Extra Ultimate Edition if I'm feeling bored some weekend."
16:09:02 <ehird`> ((#\*) (ul-inner program (cons (append (cadr stack) (car stack)) (cddr stack)) output inner))
16:09:10 <ehird`> ais523: i have a feeling this isn't idiomatic scheme :)
16:10:12 <ais523> is that the code for the ~ instruction?
16:10:17 <ais523> and are you tail-recursively looping?
16:10:46 <ais523> I understand lispy scheme, but not the strings of punctuation marks that appear every now and then
16:11:25 <ehird`> #\c is the character c in scheme
16:11:31 <ehird`> # is used for 'extra atoms'
16:11:53 <ais523> I missed the 'append', you're right, that is *
16:11:55 <ehird`> #t #f #\newline #\tab #\space #\c (where c is a char)
16:12:11 <ehird`> also i'm tail-recursively looping yeah.
16:12:19 <ehird`> wimping out for parens though
16:12:30 <ehird`> and just making a inner-parens or something function
16:13:31 <ais523> I must have a go at writing a Cyclexa version sometime
16:13:46 <ais523> but I'll have to finish up the spec and start writing the interpreter first
16:15:54 <ais523> and I should probably avoid mentioning languages in IRC channels when nobody else knows what they are because I haven't posted any info
16:17:30 <ehird`> what's the singular of parentheses?
16:22:09 <ehird`> ^ When the ^ command is called, it includes the top element of the stack into the program, immediately after the ^ command, ready to be run next.
16:23:18 <ais523> does pop, that's a mistake in the definition. I'll go and fix it on the wiki
16:23:51 <ehird`> then i have an underload interp in 31 lines
16:24:16 <ehird`> and also 100% functional
16:24:29 <ehird`> output comes after the program is run
16:24:35 <ehird`> so, no e.g. fibonacci program atm
16:24:41 <ehird`> i can easily fix that.
16:24:54 <ais523> that's not a problem really for an output-only language, except for infinite loops
16:27:08 <ais523> the way the non-wimpmode Thutu is defined it's incapable of doing output without asking for input
16:27:31 <ais523> but this doesn't technically speaking restrict what I/O sequences are allowed, because it can always be stored up until input is needed
16:27:52 <ais523> it's pretty frustrating, though, which is why I used the wimpmode version Thutu2
16:29:01 <ehird`> give me an underload program to test
16:29:24 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
16:30:22 <ais523> the standard quine (:aSS):aSS is one possibility to test
16:31:05 <ais523> if you want something harder, you could try one of Keymaker's programs, or the decimal-counting program I just posted on the wiki talk page
16:31:44 <ais523> and there's (a)(b(c))(d)(e)~*:!*(S)^ which I just came up with off the top of my head to test the Perl version (and checked the correct result with peyavi)
16:35:01 <ais523> do you have a debugger?
16:35:24 <ais523> printf debugging in Scheme would be quite a beauty to behold, I expect, especially if you were just dumping expressions
16:36:12 <ehird`> yeah i don't want to printf (display) debug in scheme :P
16:36:18 <ehird`> i wonder if there IS a scheme debugger..
16:36:23 <ehird`> I mean, generally you don't debug in lisp
16:36:26 <ehird`> you load stuff into your REPL
16:36:30 <ehird`> and test +modify it there
16:38:10 <ehird`> I think my parens don't match up
16:38:29 * ehird` resigns to the fact that he needs to use emacs
16:38:47 * ais523 uses Emacs all the time
16:39:32 <GregorR> EMACS is a perfectly good OS, albeit showing its age. With evile or similar it has a fairly good text editor, and the browser, IRC client etc aren't bad.
16:40:43 <ehird`> GregorR: ha, ha, we did this last week.
16:42:00 <ais523> it doesn't work very well as an OS on DOS, due to the impossibility of multiple processes
16:42:23 <ais523> it works better than many other text editors on DOS for much the same reason
16:45:49 <pikhq> GregorR: From #emacs: "Emacs follows the Unix philosophy. It does one thing, and does it well: everything." :p
16:46:59 <ehird`> emacs is infuriating me already! :P
16:47:48 <ehird`> pikhq: are you defending it? :P
16:48:01 <GregorR> pikhq: OMG, that's so brilliant I may have to switch to EMACS :P
16:48:17 <ehird`> GregorR: Ok, come on, emacs may be terrible, but it's not called EMACS any more :P
16:48:19 <pikhq> ehird`: I'm a member of the Church of Emacs.
16:48:37 <pikhq> ehird`: Using Vi is not a sin in the CoE, BTW.
16:48:50 <GregorR> ehird`: I thought people were just lazy and decapped, I didn't realize it had been officially decapped.
16:48:54 <pikhq> Only using nonfree software is a sin in it.
16:49:04 <ehird`> pikhq: On my mac i use a non-free editor. :P
16:49:19 <ais523> I believe the Emacs solution to vi was to try to emulate it
16:49:19 <pikhq> Then I sentence you to a horrendous penance.
16:49:28 <GregorR> Well, you're using it on a nonfree system, so you have more problems than just the editor :P
16:49:29 <pikhq> Use Vi (or viper-mode).
16:49:31 <ais523> and then talk about why the Emacs version of vi was so superior
16:49:33 <ehird`> GregorR: It officially refers to itself as "Emacs" or "GNU Emacs"
16:49:44 <ehird`> the title bar says "emacs@hostname", though, but that's just to be unix-y in specifying it
16:50:14 <ehird`> ais523: "Instead of i you can type (set-vi-mode 'insert)"
16:50:22 <ehird`> "This allows for additional flexibility"
16:50:54 <ais523> ehird`: are you agreeing with me or arguing with me? I can't quite tell
16:52:42 <ais523> they have a whole chapter in their manual about why Emacs' version of vi is so much better than vi
16:52:50 <ais523> but they sort of miss the point about why people use bi
16:53:27 <ais523> by the way, what's your favourite backronym for EMACS
16:54:33 <ais523> I'd go with Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift, although that doesn't actually do anything by itself because that's five modifier keys without specifying a character at the end of it
16:55:52 -!- ais523 has quit ("changing to a different computer, will be logged off IRC in the meantime").
16:56:30 <ehird`> oh my god!!! emacs just indented with a mix of spaces and tabs!!
16:56:40 * ehird` runs to #emacs and demands to know how to disable it
16:56:58 <GregorR> Damn I before E except after C and when pronounced 'ay' as in neighbor and weigh!!!
16:57:11 <ehird`> GregorR: or a few other cases!
16:57:28 <GregorR> But piece isn't one of them :P
16:57:46 <pikhq> Escape == Meta == Alt in modern Emacs, anyways.
16:57:57 <pikhq> So, that's 3 modifiers.
16:58:07 <GregorR> I thought escape was escape?
16:58:45 <pikhq> GregorR: Escape is set to be Alt to allow for archaic systems without an alt key.
16:59:35 <ehird`> it's (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil)
16:59:52 <ehird`> GregorR: of course its archaic
17:00:15 <ehird`> GregorR: the emacs tutorial says things like "If you are running in a windowed environment, ..." and "If your terminal has cursor keys, ..."
17:00:32 <pikhq> Emacs still runs on the PDP-11, IIRC.
17:00:36 <ehird`> no -- seriously, it does :)
17:00:50 <GregorR> pikhq: Doesn't surprise me. ehird`: Doesn't surprise me.
17:00:57 <pikhq> All this is because some people actually *use* it on such old systems.
17:01:12 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:01:43 <ehird`> pikhq: Okay -- but nobody uses emacs on a PDP-11.
17:01:48 <ehird`> I will not accept that! ;)
17:02:07 <pikhq> Someone actually runs GCC on a PDP-11. ;)
17:02:22 <pikhq> (why else would the PDP-11 backend still work?)
17:04:34 <ais523> as for 'if you're running in a windowed environment...'; when I run Emacs on DJGPP on DOS on NTVDM on Windows, Emacs doesn't have access to the windowed environment it's running on 4 levels down, and besides I normally run it in full-screen mode
17:05:01 <ais523> if you look hard enough there'll probably be a mode designed to pipe output to a lineprinter
17:05:05 <pikhq> If you run emacs without X, you don't have a windowed environment.
17:05:19 <pikhq> ais523: Confirmed.
17:05:29 <pikhq> Somewhere in with the DOS stuff in the manual.
17:09:07 * ais523 is busy reading the horrific details about newlines in Emacs on DOS
17:09:44 <ais523> it's a real problem, though. I know because the INTERCAL compiler I maintain now targets both Linux/UNIX systems and DOS via DJGPP, and everything has to be written for both
17:10:08 <ais523> also, all the important filenames are 8.3, so instead of 'configure' you configure it with 'config.sh'
17:10:54 <ehird`> nobody sane uses dos!!!
17:10:58 <ehird`> (even insane people like us)
17:11:13 <ais523> it's the sanest way I found to run it under Windows
17:11:34 <ais523> NTVDM is awful, but it's possible to work around most of its bugs with frequent restarting
17:12:01 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:12:06 <ais523> the most annoying is the way that it crashes with a Windows error message every time I run 'tar', for no obvious reason
17:12:30 <ais523> oh, and the printer stuff in the DOS section is a false positive
17:24:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:29:34 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:32:36 <ehird`> ais523: because he was as annoying yesterday as the previous time he came in
17:32:56 * ais523 will have to read the logs a bit further back
17:35:54 <ais523> it seems reasonable to me, but I have an unusually high tolerance
17:36:16 <GregorR> Yeah, that seems a bit harsh.
17:36:19 <ais523> and being a Wikipedia admin, I also have a tendency to help new users rather than insulating them
17:36:47 <ehird`> yeah, well last time he came in here [not yesterday] he spammed up the channel
17:36:52 <ehird`> also got his bot to spam it at one point
17:37:05 <ehird`> and yelled a lot when people did not reply to him within 30 seconds
17:37:22 <ais523> sounds to me like someone who's eager but doesn't really understand IRC
17:37:45 <ehird`> ais523: yes -- that's his defense. along with "I'm only 10!!!"
17:37:56 <asiekierka> I'm also a dumbass that nobody cares about.
17:38:08 <Slereah-> Let us show you the SUPER HIGHWAY OF INFORMATION.
17:38:14 <ehird`> i just stated how you have been in this channel
17:38:31 <asiekierka> So you stated in 4 words "Asie is a dumbass".
17:38:50 <ehird`> but if you'd like to believe that's what i said, go ahead
17:38:56 <pikhq> You're just young is all.
17:39:38 <ehird`> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Nobody_cares
17:39:39 <GregorR> Ah, to be young again. And also a robot.
17:39:51 <ais523> ehird`: it was inevitable that someone would post that link
17:40:05 <ais523> even though I've never actually seen what's at the other end of it
17:40:20 <ehird`> it's not a shock site or anything
17:40:39 <Slereah-> Well, at least until you search it for goatse.
17:40:52 <ehird`> there's no goatse on that page. :P
17:41:07 <Slereah-> But who knows! It might only be clicks away!
17:41:10 <ais523> last time I tried to look at uncyclopedia was in a cybercafe, and I hit a content filter
17:41:34 -!- calamari has joined.
17:41:36 <asiekierka> o`/ Well, why you should? I don't know! o`/
17:41:44 <ehird`> soon, asiekierka will discover razor blades
17:41:49 <ehird`> and then we'll all be investigated
17:42:22 * ais523 wonders how to de-escalate this discussion without making it worse or insulting one side or the other for life
17:42:23 <asiekierka> o`/ No you will not be. Why? I don't know o`/
17:42:58 <GregorR> ais523: I do believe the solution is to simply put people on temporary ignore, allow the argument to resolve itself in time, and then let the ignores expire.
17:43:02 <Slereah-> ais523 : The solution would probably be to steer the conversation toward something unrelated.
17:43:05 <ehird`> asiekierka, your song-writing skills are lacking.
17:43:32 -!- asiekierka has left (?).
17:43:54 <ehird`> he'll be back in 10 minutes
17:44:53 -!- _ has joined.
17:45:01 <ehird`> when i say '10 minutes'
17:45:06 <ehird`> i actually mean '1 minute'
17:45:18 <ehird`> disguised as an underscore
17:45:25 <_> you know that's me, right?
17:45:33 -!- _ has changed nick to asiekierka.
17:45:42 <ehird`> no. "_ (n=asiekier@81.15.226.6) has joined #esoteric" did not give it away at all.
17:46:11 <asiekierka> Waiting for somebody to say that he likes me.
17:46:37 <Slereah-> Hm. My sarcasm muscle is twitching.
17:46:46 <ais523> Slereah-: base 1 uses no digits but 0
17:47:36 <GregorR> Base 1 is unresolvable, but anyway.
17:47:40 <Slereah-> Well, it could be that base 1 only use 1, and 0 as a place holder.
17:47:47 <ehird`> but let's assume he meant "unary, with 0 as nop"
17:48:00 <ehird`> Slereah-: base 2 uses 10, base 3 uses 210
17:48:04 <ehird`> so, base 1 must use only 0
17:48:05 <ais523> there should be more numeric systems with NOPs in
17:48:09 <ehird`> so, nothing can be expressed in base 1
17:48:19 <ais523> you could use an infinite number of 0s
17:48:23 <ais523> not that it would help much
17:49:14 <ais523> of course, that can't be the first line of the program, because such lines are traditionally numbered '10', and it's undefined behaviour to redefine integers while you're actually using them
17:50:59 <GregorR> There is one number that can be expressed in base 0.
17:51:46 <ais523> no, the only number that can be expressed in base 0 is the null string
17:52:01 <ais523> because it doesn't use any symbols at all
17:52:15 <ais523> on the other hand, base -2 uses two symbols, so maybe the pattern doesn't last indefinitely...
17:52:32 <GregorR> Since I made giant horrible errors saying what I was trying to say there, I'll repeat: There is one number that can be expressed in base 1, namely 0.
17:53:17 <ais523> Agreed. There are an infinite number of ways to express it, too.
17:53:38 <GregorR> Well, there are an infinite number of ways to express 0 in any base.
17:54:20 <ais523> in Roman Numerals, there aren't any ways to express 0 at all, but it isn't really a base
17:54:56 <GregorR> I'm perfectly happy with terrorist numerals, thank you very much.
17:55:14 <ais523> I don't get the reference
17:56:23 <ais523> I like oerjan's Aromabic, personally
17:56:27 <GregorR> 0123456789 = Arab numerals, and my govment learned me that there TERRISTS
17:56:45 <ais523> I'm even thinking about implementing them as a new I/O format for INTERCAL
17:56:50 <ais523> so that it can actually read its own output
17:57:04 <GregorR> More info, por favor. (URL?)
17:57:05 <ais523> only shortest-length representations of numbers would be allowed
17:57:23 <ais523> GregorR: it's in the logs somewhere, but might take a while to find
17:57:52 <GregorR> I'm sure the keyword "aromabic" will help :P (/me hunts)
17:58:53 <ais523> basically, each character in [0123456789IVXLCDM] is a command in a language that modifies one number on top of the stack
17:59:14 <ais523> well, there's no way to access any other stack elements, so it's a bit of a degenerate stack
17:59:34 <ais523> the number at TOS starts at 0
17:59:48 <ais523> any digit multiplies TOS by 10 and then adds itself to TOS
18:00:17 <ais523> so that strings like "1234" map to exactly the numbers you'd expect if you're used to decimal and aren't expecting something esoteric to surprise you
18:01:33 <ais523> whilst the letters each have a value (as in ordinary roman numerals); say TOS is t, their value is n, and % is the modulus operator, then they map t to t+n-2*(t%n)
18:01:50 <ais523> sorry, it took me a while to remember what the exact formula was
18:02:00 <ehird`> So what's "0123456789IVXLCDM"? :)
18:02:11 <ais523> so IV = 1V = 1+5-(1*2) = 4
18:02:36 <ais523> 0123456789I would be 1234567890
18:02:51 <GregorR> So, if you're writing in roman numerals, it works ... and if you're writing in decimal, it works ... but you can also mix and match.
18:03:50 <GregorR> Incidentally, how is that a stack? Seems like just a single register.
18:03:52 <ais523> then the V makes it 1234567895, X: 1234567895, L:1234567855, C:1234567845, D:1234567655, M:1234567345
18:04:02 <ais523> it isn't, I just said 'stack' to start with and then kept on going
18:04:24 <ais523> presumably you could use these as numeric input commands in a Befunge-like language
18:04:45 <ais523> the idea is that INTERCAL would only accept minimum-length representations
18:05:42 <ais523> so one possible way to count would be 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,X,11,12,...,49,L,51,52,...,99,C,CI,X2,X3,...,X9,CX, and so on
18:06:10 <ais523> it can be quite confusing trying to work out minimum length representations of numbers
18:06:33 <ais523> unfortunately very large numbers normally end up mostly in decimal; maybe if the overlined versions of letters are used that would help
18:06:42 <ais523> and the lowercase letters that INTERCAL uses for times-1000
18:10:16 -!- oklopol has joined.
18:11:04 <ehird`> asiekierka: you should learn to teach yourself languages
18:11:10 <ehird`> you won't find many esolang tutorials beyond brainfuck
18:11:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:13:28 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:15:03 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:15:54 <ais523> that disconnection was slightly scary, by the way
18:16:18 <ais523> I know it just looked like a normal remote-close from the logs, but what happened was that the terminal I was using lost network access
18:17:17 <GregorR> I don't know if I'd use the term "scary" for that :P
18:17:19 <ais523> so I was forcibly logged off both the UNIX server and the Windows terminal without even so much as a close-files-I'm-using, and then had to find and kill the processes that were left behind and keeping the files open that would let me reconnect
18:17:42 <ais523> and then the Windows terminal rebooted for no apparent reason, no, correction, it turned itself off
18:18:11 <ais523> and I ended up deleting my entire .mozilla directory
18:18:24 <ais523> to try to get things back to some semblance of sanity
18:19:05 <Slereah-> It deconnected because he fell in a time vortex.
18:19:45 <ais523> oklopol: it was more than a minute at my end, more like 5 minutes according to the logs
18:20:04 <ais523> it's just that the deconnection was so sudden it took the servers some time to notice that it had even happened
18:20:21 <ais523> I'm on a different terminal at the moment, hoping the same thing won't happen again
18:20:44 <oklopol> that's some serious time dilation
18:20:48 <ehird`> it was 2 minutes, ais523
18:21:06 <oklopol> and a bee flew into my room, it's fucking -10 outside :\
18:21:14 <ais523> it was more like 18:06->18:13 to me
18:21:15 <oklopol> well i guess more like 0, but anyway
18:21:40 <ehird`> oklopol: "HALP AM WANT HOME COLD OUT DER"
18:21:41 <Slereah-> Shouldn't it be in its hive hibernating?
18:22:02 <ais523> and why did I just try to use tab completion on the word 'hibernate'?
18:22:11 <oklopol> it was actually just a fly, looked bigger first
18:22:23 <oklopol> although i don't know if they should be awake either...
18:23:06 <oklopol> ais523: happens to me often too
18:23:08 <Slereah-> Apparently most bees don't hibernate.
18:24:36 <Sgeo> That was madness
18:24:55 <Sgeo> I made a norn trapped in an elevator's body which looks like a robot toy
18:26:48 <Slereah-> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/6exd65h.png
18:28:00 -!- ehird[erc] has joined.
18:28:33 <oklopol> Slereah-: what was that now?
18:28:58 <Slereah-> "The barbarian messenger spoke: "You profane! You are all mad!" Replied Leonidas: "We are mad? WE ARE SPARTA.""
18:29:00 <ais523> ehird[erc]: I didn't even realise that Emacs had an IRC client
18:29:19 <ais523> although I suppose I should have guessed
18:29:25 <ehird[erc]> it has 3 in the standard distrobution, iirc
18:29:45 -!- ehird[rcirc] has joined.
18:30:08 <asiekierka> You know how to make an easiest quine in some of esoteric languages?
18:30:20 <ehird`> asiekierka: WOW THAT'S NEW AND EXCITING
18:30:28 <ehird`> really??? nobody ever put an empty file in an interpreter before!!
18:30:36 <pikhq> I prefer the one that must be possible in any Turing machine.
18:30:39 -!- RedDak has joined.
18:31:00 <oklopol> The empty program is not a quine in <???>.
18:31:14 <ais523> the impressive version of the null quine was when someone submitted it to the IOCCC
18:31:29 <ais523> with a makefile that made it produce no output even though there was an error
18:31:44 <ais523> they added a minimum length of 1 byte after that
18:31:57 <ais523> and oklopol, you're thinking of "In HOMESPRING, the null program is not a quine."
18:32:23 <oklopol> i remembered it has something to do with fishes... that was a fucking helpful clue.
18:32:40 <ais523> there was a one-character program before that used preprocessor tricks to become a valid program
18:32:47 <ais523> so they had to limit the length of the makefile
18:32:56 <ais523> it apparently drove some versions of lint into an infinite loop
18:34:15 <ais523> I can't remember, but I think it's mentioned in one of the hint files, if that helps
18:34:20 <ais523> they removed the limit again after a while, I think
18:36:55 <ais523> I think there's also a rule that the resulting C file has to be executable
18:37:06 <ais523> after the record breaking hello, world
18:37:16 <ehird`> GregorR: gimme a binary
18:37:32 <ehird`> ais523: it still would be
18:37:37 <ehird`> just do some crazy gcc tricks
18:37:44 <ehird`> and include a header file or something
18:37:57 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:38:36 <ais523> the build-size rule was apparently a 160 byte limit
18:38:49 <ais523> although someone got round that one year with a sh/make/C polyglot
18:39:03 <ehird`> 160 bytes?? for a makefile?
18:39:11 <Sgeo> no oerjan (no=hi)
18:39:22 <oerjan> ais523: i don't think i've said so yet, congratulations!
18:39:25 <ais523> oh, and the record Hello, world was char*_="Hello world.\n";
18:39:39 <ehird`> you do realise, Sgeo, that "hi" is the same amount of typing as "no"
18:40:22 * oerjan disappears in a puff of Sgeo's logic
18:40:33 <Sgeo> ehird`, yes, I realize that, it's just that no=hi is a Sine meme
18:40:44 <ais523> the build instructions contained what was effectively -o /dev/stdout
18:40:58 <Sgeo> It's a semi-private IRC network
18:41:13 <ais523> sorry, /dev/tty but it comes to much the same thing
18:41:15 <ehird`> how can something be "semi-private"? :p
18:41:33 <ehird`> ais523: how did it avoid binary crap?
18:41:33 <ais523> maybe it's protected: only derived networks can access it
18:41:36 <ehird`> piped through strings? :P
18:41:52 <oerjan> freenode is a bit semi-private, isn't it
18:41:56 <ais523> ehird`: it didn't, it just worked on the basis that "Hello world.\n" was likely to be in there somewhere
18:43:03 <GregorR> ehird`: Platform = arch + OS X_X
18:43:15 <oerjan> it's governed by a non-profit organization, or something, isn't it
18:43:18 <ehird`> i live in a little hole
18:43:30 <ehird`> oerjan: i don't think semi-private means that :P
18:43:37 <GregorR> So, ELKS? No, ELKS only works on 286, right?
18:43:37 <ehird`> although admittedly i may be wrong having no idea what it means
18:43:38 <ais523> well, I run GNU/Windows on something x86-compatible but much more modern
18:43:54 <ais523> sort of like GNU/Linux, only Windows is the kernel and I run the GNU utilities on top of that
18:44:03 <Sgeo> It means that it's not like we'll kick people out, but we don't give the address to random people.. well, mostly
18:44:07 <ehird`> ais523: i must question though why you use windows
18:44:16 <Sgeo> ihope is on Sine
18:44:22 <ehird`> Sgeo: random as in random.choice(people)?
18:44:22 <ais523> other people who want to use Windows, and me using the same computer
18:44:26 <GregorR> ais523, ehird`: All the driver support, less of the garbager.
18:44:35 <asiekierka> You still aren't suprised i'm not spamming the channel?
18:44:46 <ehird`> asiekierka: sorry, are we meant to comment on that?
18:44:51 <ais523> asiekierka: it's usual for IRC users to be inactive for a while
18:45:07 <ais523> except for me, but that's for somewhat confusing reasons
18:45:26 <ais523> that are the same reasons why I'm using a client so old that I can't figure out how to get it to auto-authenticate or keep logs
18:45:35 <oerjan> ehird`: i guess it's a continuous scale from completely closed network to complete anarchy
18:45:37 <ais523> GregorR: that's the second time I've been accused of being a bot
18:45:58 <ais523> ehird`: a really old version of ChatZilla
18:46:47 <ais523> navigator.userAgent gives me Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414, so it's a relatively recent build, but still too old
18:47:04 <ais523> that is, 2004 isn't really 'relatively recent' in computer terms nowadays
18:47:08 <ais523> although I suppose it was in 2004
18:47:54 <oerjan> once upon a time, the pyramids were relatively recent
18:48:14 -!- ehird` has quit ("K-Lined by peer").
18:48:35 -!- ehird` has joined.
18:49:17 <ais523> what on earth does that quit message mean? I suppose that as it's in quotes, it might just be ehird` messing around, but it does look concerning
18:49:25 <ehird`> just me messing around
18:49:33 <ehird`> you're the second person to comment about it in here
18:49:57 <GregorR> And this is the second time I've commented that FreeNode makes user quit messages easily distinguishable from system quit messages :P
18:52:10 -!- ehird[erc] has left (?).
18:52:12 -!- ehird[rcirc] has left (?).
18:52:40 <ehird`> ais523: can you read Scheme? :P
18:53:45 <ehird`> immediately after lookign at it
18:54:21 <ais523> I hope you get it working
18:58:28 <ais523> asiekierka: see if you can make a negative-length quine
18:58:39 <ais523> you first have to invent a language for which the concept makes sense
18:58:54 <ais523> probably some extension to TURKEY BOMB
18:59:21 <ais523> which is a great language that I actually tried to implement at one point, but got confused
18:59:46 <ais523> I think with suitable choices for the parts of the language that are vaguely specifed it may be Turing-complete
18:59:59 <asiekierka> Every character you type is treated as a random command.
19:00:11 <asiekierka> so "h" can be once push, once add, once pop, once delete...
19:00:22 <ehird`> turkey bomb isn't TC, ais523
19:00:28 <ehird`> for example the turkey bomb instruction :P
19:00:32 <ais523> ehird`: how do you know?
19:00:53 <asiekierka> I'll call it YOUR ESOTERIC LANGUAGE OF THE DAY, MAN.
19:01:13 <ais523> you can use multiple people playing it to form some sort of infinite loop with skips forwards and backwards
19:01:30 <ais523> after all, a couple of the commands mention unusual things happening to the TURKEY BOMB itself
19:01:39 <asiekierka> - Every line must end with ", man." (without the quotes)
19:01:39 <asiekierka> - every char is treated as a random command.
19:02:35 <ais523> I think it works if the operation that involves three-trits is greater-than on two of them picked at random, with short-circuiting from left to write
19:03:22 <ais523> because the short-circuiting lets you do conditional jumps
19:04:13 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: correct
19:04:19 <ais523> I noticed. We had to use peyavi instead for the two-bot infinite loop that we set up earlier
19:04:33 <ais523> I suppose that if you persuade it to join a three-bot infinite loop might be possible
19:04:35 <ehird`> but his underload interp is getting rewritten in scheme
19:04:58 <ais523> ('it' in my last comment refers to bsmnt_bot. That's the problem with asynchronous communication.)
19:05:05 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
19:05:25 <ais523> wow, I just need to figure out what the relevant three-bot code would be
19:05:47 <ais523> Doing it with ~exec is very hard due to the way Python treats quotation marks
19:06:01 <ehird`> ais523: you can add handlers with bsmnt_bot
19:06:12 <ais523> ehird`: I know, that's how I did it last time
19:09:44 <ehird`> not once have i figured out
19:09:45 <oklopol> Sgeo: according to your experiments with norns, you must be pleased to hear the fly has grown tired of living and now lies on its back on the floor, occasionally buzzing a bit
19:09:56 <ehird`> how to copy text from emacs into another app
19:09:59 <ehird`> i can do it within emacs
19:10:03 <ehird`> but i do not know how to copy it out
19:11:04 <ais523> ehird`: that tends to be quite annoying as it depends on your OS. Normally, if you copy text to the kill ring with M-w, it also copies it to your OS's clipboard, but in my experience it tends to usually get this wrong
19:11:18 <ehird`> yeah, it doesn't work for me
19:11:34 <ehird`> ;The object (#\( #\S #\S #\a #\: . #\)), passed as an argument to append, is not a list.
19:11:38 <ehird`> just need to use middle-click
19:11:41 <ehird`> instead of shift-insert or ctrl-v
19:11:46 <ehird`> that's the bug i'm tackling now :P
19:12:27 <ehird`> debugging functional programs in scheme is a bitch.
19:18:06 -!- v1nc3L has joined.
19:20:53 <ais523> ~exec sys.stdout("test")
19:21:01 -!- asiekierka has quit.
19:21:39 <ais523> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:41 <EgoBot> **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
19:21:41 <peyavi> ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:42 <bsmnt_bot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:45 <EgoBot> **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
19:21:45 <peyavi> ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:46 <bsmnt_bot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:49 <EgoBot> **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
19:21:49 <peyavi> ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:50 <bsmnt_bot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:53 <EgoBot> **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
19:21:54 <peyavi> ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:54 <bsmnt_bot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:57 <EgoBot> **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
19:21:58 <peyavi> ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:21:58 <bsmnt_bot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:22:01 <EgoBot> **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S
19:22:01 <peyavi> ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:22:02 <bsmnt_bot> !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^
19:22:09 <ehird`> now make it peer to peer
19:22:16 <ehird`> each part, when spawned, can continue with at least one partner
19:22:23 <ehird`> but does not require the whole chain to be active
19:22:33 <oklopol> make it always print a command for both the other bots...
19:22:46 <ais523> I don't think that's possible unless you get the bots to output two commands each
19:22:56 <ais523> and that would involve embedding newlines in the input to the bots
19:23:09 <ais523> let's just reinstall the Underload daemon, anyway (thanks Keymaker!)
19:23:16 <ais523> !daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774
19:23:19 <oklopol> i mean, is that not possible?
19:23:35 <ehird`> ais523: meh you can figure out a way! ;)
19:23:42 <ehird`> next up: distributed computing, via irc bots
19:23:51 -!- v1nc3L has left (?).
19:24:03 <ais523> the problem is that the three bots all use different identifying characters so that each bot would have to send out two commands, one for each other bot
19:24:19 <ais523> but the only way to say that in Underload is to put a literal newline in the string, so you couldn't send the info over IRC anyway
19:24:49 <oklopol> you need to include PRIVMSG #esoteric :
19:25:44 <oklopol> although any decent bot will either 1. ignore newlines 2. make newlines illegal 3. split by newlines and print each separately
19:25:48 <ais523> bsmntbombdood: zomg you deleted the BF interpreter
19:26:07 <oklopol> 3rd is what for example ololobot does, and i guess EgoBot too
19:26:26 <oklopol> !bf ++++++++++>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.<.>.
19:26:53 <GregorR> Well, it doesn't flood channels.
19:26:57 <GregorR> If you ask it to, it'll flood you ^^
19:27:06 <oklopol> shouldn't it send that to my pric?
19:27:26 <GregorR> !bf ++++++++++>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.<.>.
19:27:43 <GregorR> EgoBot must not be auth'd.
19:27:45 <oklopol> then the bot isn't identified
19:28:27 <oklopol> i need to go again for a bit -<
19:28:40 <GregorR> !bf ++++++++++>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.<.>.
19:37:01 * oerjan suddenly imagines running Chef through a Swedish Chef generator
19:37:36 <ais523> ~bf ,[.,]!Got this working again
19:38:10 <ais523> now all we need is a Python Underload interpreter so that three bots can do it at once...
19:40:16 <oerjan> nah, just filter the bf underload interpreter through bsmnt_bot's python bf interpreter
19:41:26 <ais523> I thought of that, but the logistics of trying to retype the whole thing through IRC (even with the benefit of copy/paste) are staggering
19:41:33 <peyavi> sometimes the way I'm proposing will make a pastebin ?
19:41:41 <peyavi> The developers Brazilians are very impatient
19:41:44 <peyavi> Mark761966: hidden files
19:41:53 <ais523> what exactly is it doing?
19:41:59 <ehird`> ais523: it's a markov chain
19:42:03 <peyavi> rnenjoy, and also, a rule that the blocks follow
19:42:14 <ais523> that's reasonably obvious, but what is it based on?
19:42:33 <ehird`> everything it hears in irc (its in here, ##moosanity, and #php and #ubuntu for idiot-watching)
19:42:43 <peyavi> Creed now thats totally subjective try them and see if it still shows the loading progress bar. on the Medibuntu servers is "not evaluating $file correctly
19:42:51 <oerjan> ais523: it is possibly to get a network connection from bsmnt_bot, i think
19:43:02 <ehird`> "Creed now thats totally subjective try them and see if it still shows the loading progress bar." that's pretty good
19:43:26 <ehird`> ~exec self.msg("#esoteric",dir(self))
19:43:27 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute 'msg'
19:43:38 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :" + repr(dir(self)))
19:43:38 <bsmnt_bot> ['COMMAND_CHAR', 'THREADING', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'ban', 'ban_file', 'banlist', 'bf3', 'bf4', 'chan', 'commands_running', 'commands_running_lock', 'connect', 'connected', 'disconnect', 'do_callbacks', 'do_ctcp', 'do_exec', 'do_kill', 'do_ps', 'do_quit', 'do_raw', 'error_in_chan', 'errorchan', 'exec_execer', 'get_message', 'handle_callback', 'host', 'ident', 'listen', 'load_callbacks', 'locals', 'message_re', 'nick', 'o
19:43:51 <ais523> ~exec sys.stdout("This is how you print things.")
19:44:02 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute 'callbacks'
19:44:18 <ehird`> ~exec sys.stdout(dir(self))
19:44:19 <bsmnt_bot> ['COMMAND_CHAR', 'THREADING', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'ban', 'ban_file', 'banlist', 'bf3', 'bf4', 'chan', 'commands_running', 'commands_running_lock', 'connect', 'connected', 'disconnect', 'do_callbacks', 'do_ctcp', 'do_exec', 'do_kill', 'do_ps', 'do_quit', 'do_raw', 'error_in_chan', 'errorchan', 'exec_execer', 'get_message', 'handle_callback', 'host', 'ident'
19:44:19 <bsmnt_bot> , 'listen', 'load_callbacks', 'locals', 'message_re', 'nick', 'owner', 'pong', 'port', 'print_callbacks', 'raw', 'raw_regex_queue', 'read_bans', 'realname', 'register_raw', 'save_callbacks', 'socket', 'sockfile', 'unban', 'verbose', 'write_bans']
19:44:29 <ehird`> ~exec self.print_callbacks()
19:44:53 <ehird`> Essentially i'm trying to find the bf callback.
19:45:02 <ehird`> ~exec print self.raw_regex_queue
19:45:07 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys,stdout, self.raw_regex_queue
19:45:07 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name 'stdout' is not defined
19:45:10 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue
19:45:10 <bsmnt_bot> [(<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0xb7d4abf0>, <bound method IRCbot.pong of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80e0d10>, <bound method IRCbot.do_quit of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dc640>, <bound method IRCbot.do_raw of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object
19:45:15 <bsmnt_bot> at 0x80dc440>, <bound method IRCbot.do_ctcp of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dcab0>, <bound method IRCbot.do_exec of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dcfa0>, <bound method IRCbot.do_exec of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80b91c0>, <bound me
19:45:20 <bsmnt_bot> thod IRCbot.do_ps of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dd278>, <bound method IRCbot.do_kill of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80e2d00>, <function <lambda> at 0xb7cd4764>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80b9400>, <function <lambda> at 0xb7cd8dbc>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80de898>
19:45:25 <bsmnt_bot> , <function bfarg at 0xb7cd8cdc>)]
19:45:31 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name 'bfarg' is not defined
19:45:38 <ais523> it's the top pattern object in the raw_regex_queue
19:45:38 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw_regex_queue[-1]
19:45:48 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1]
19:45:49 <bsmnt_bot> (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80de898>, <function bfarg at 0xb7cd8cdc>)
19:45:51 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1][1]
19:45:56 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1][1]("+.")
19:45:57 <bsmnt_bot> TypeError: bfarg() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)
19:46:07 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1][1].f_code
19:46:07 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'f_code'
19:46:20 <ais523> if you want to see the source:
19:46:33 <ais523> ~sys.stdout(repr(self.bf3+self.bf4))
19:46:53 <ais523> ~exec sys.stdout(repr(self.bf3+self.bf4))
19:46:54 <bsmnt_bot> "def bfarg(x,y):\n p=y.group(2)\n a=y.group(3)+unichr(0)\n o=''\n p=p+'!'\n t=[0]*30000\n i=0\n l=0\n while p[i]!='!':\n if p[i]=='[' and t[l]==0:\n c=1\n while c>0:\n i=i+1\n if p[i]=='[': c=c+1\n if p[i]==']': c=c-1\n if p[i]==']' and t[l]!=0:\n c=1\n while c>0:\n i=i-1\n if p[i]==']': c=c+1\n if p[i]=='[': c=c-1\n if p[i]=='+': t[l]=t[l]+1\n
19:46:54 <bsmnt_bot> if p[i]=='-': t[l]=t[l]-1\n if p[i]=='<': l=l-1\n if p[i]=='>': l=l+1\n if p[i]=='.': o=o+unichr(t[l])\n if p[i]==',':\n t[l]=ord(a[0])\n a=a[1:]\n i=i+1\n sys.stdout(o)\nself.register_raw(r'\\S+ PRIVMSG (\\S+) :~bf ([^!]*)!?(.*)',bfarg)"
19:47:28 <ais523> x is ignored. y is a regex whose second and third groups give the program and input, respectively
19:47:44 <ehird`> in python how would i construct one of those regexps?
19:47:44 <ais523> so that bfarg is an appropriate raw_regex_queue callback
19:48:19 <ais523> r"\S+ PRIVMSG (\S+) :~bf ([^!]*)!?(.*)"
19:48:29 <ais523> is the regex that I used (retyped, so I may have typoed)
19:48:39 <ais523> it just matches raw IRC data
19:48:58 <ais523> bfarg wasn't really designed with being called from anything else in mind
19:49:20 <ais523> but you could just concatenate a string with ! in between, match a regex against it somehow, and then use that as bfarg input
19:49:24 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:49:47 <ehird`> is that you just use the http functions of python
19:49:55 <ehird`> define a nice handler for it
19:50:58 <ais523> I don't actually know Python. That BF interpreter was my first program. After all, BF interpreters are easy to write, right?
19:52:53 <ehird`> what's the bash way to get an absolute path given a relative path
19:52:57 <ehird`> (assumed relative to current directory?)
19:54:33 <ais523> you could do /dev/env/pwd/path, but that's cheating
19:55:11 <GregorR> ehird`: What I always do is: OLDPWD="$PWD" ; cd "$SOMEPATH" ; FULLPATH="$PWD" ; cd "$OLDPWD"
19:55:18 <GregorR> oerjan: That's bad if it actually is a full path.
19:55:29 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined.
19:55:34 <GregorR> (Presumably one would want to accept either)
19:55:36 <ehird`> GregorR: OK, the Ruby GUI toolkit 'Shoes' needs to be run in its own directory
19:55:40 <ehird`> I'm writing a wrapper function around it
19:55:52 <ehird`> but i ofc want to specify relative paths (and possibly absolute ones)
19:55:58 <ehird`> How would I write the func with your way?
19:56:08 <GregorR> Well, pushd takes relative paths anyway ...
19:56:33 <GregorR> Uh, that's not a relative path.
19:56:35 <ehird`> BLAH needs to be absolute of course
19:56:48 <ehird`> shoes() { pushd /shoes/dir; ./shoes BLAH; popd }
19:56:57 <ehird`> since i may call "shoes" in a directory with a relative path
19:57:27 <GregorR> I think my trick is right.
19:57:50 <GregorR> When you're in the directory it's relative to, just pushd to it and then save your $PWD
19:57:50 <ehird`> I don't see how it would work.
19:58:02 <ehird`> shoes /an/absolute/path
19:58:19 <GregorR> pushd /an/absolute/path pushes to that absolute path.
19:58:42 <ehird`> I do pushd /path/to/shoes
19:58:59 * GregorR bashes his head into the wall.
19:59:13 <GregorR> BEFORE changing the directory at all
19:59:33 <GregorR> Wait, are you saying you pushd /relative/path/that/starts/with/a/slash?
20:01:23 <GregorR> I can only reiterate, because I know for a fact that my method works: Before you've changed the directory at all, pushd to your path. Whether it's relative or absolute, you'll end up in the right place. Then just store $PWD and popd, and you're golden.
20:01:39 <ehird`> I am not pushd'ing to any user defined path.
20:01:47 <ehird`> the app "shoes" must be started from /path/to/shoes
20:01:58 <ehird`> I want an alias "notshoes" so I can do "notshoes file-in-current-dir"
20:02:03 <ehird`> notshoes will "pushd /path/to/shoes"
20:02:12 <ehird`> but, when i run shoes, it will obviously need an absolute path
20:02:16 <ehird`> I am wondering how to calculate it.
20:02:22 <ehird`> And, I cannot do $PWD/$1 before hand,
20:02:27 <ehird`> because I may do "notshoes /abs/path"
20:02:34 <GregorR> That's exactly what my method describes.
20:02:58 <GregorR> (Mind, I didn't realize you were talking about a file, so you'd need e.g. pushd `dirname $foo` etc, but otherwise it's the same)
20:03:46 <ehird`> I don't. ever. pushd. with. a. variable.
20:04:03 <ais523> this is one advantage that Emacs has over bash in processing paths
20:04:30 <ais523> ~msg #esoteric // or /~ anywhere in the directory rename resets to the root or the home directory respectively
20:05:03 <ais523> so that $PWD/$1 would actually work if emacs supported dollar-notation
20:05:25 <GregorR> ehird`: I know you don't. You SHOULD, to get the information you need X_X
20:05:44 <ehird`> GregorR: write me "notshoes", because i don't think you know what i'm trying to make it do
20:06:14 * ais523 is annoyed with themself for messing up the syntax for sending a message starting with /
20:06:55 <GregorR> ehird`: http://pastebin.ca/792890
20:08:35 <ehird`> that leaves me in the dir of shoes
20:08:52 <ehird`> also, function!=bash script
20:09:18 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:09:26 <GregorR> There is no function here ...
20:09:36 <GregorR> And I thought the whole idea was that you needed to run shoes from its own dir?
20:10:12 <ehird`> i /want/ a function, is what i mean
20:10:16 <ehird`> but after running shoes
20:10:20 <ehird`> i get dumped into shoes' dir
20:10:31 <GregorR> No you don't, that's not how scripts work.
20:10:47 <GregorR> It's easy enough to put that in a function, there's nothing non-function-specific about that code.
20:11:09 <ehird`> but bah i've got it working
20:15:57 -!- ais523 has quit.
20:37:07 <oerjan> <GregorR> I'm sure the keyword "aromabic" will help :P (/me hunts)
20:37:18 <oerjan> actually it is Arombiac
20:37:27 <oerjan> although that doesn't show up either
20:40:18 <oerjan> no idea why it isn't in the tunes.org logs
20:52:46 <GregorR> ehird`: I'd love to see what your method is.
20:55:01 <ehird`> it doesn't support absolute paths.
20:55:20 <bsmntbombdood> i was watching some old people talk about sex on pbs
20:55:36 <GregorR> OK, so my method, which supports both relative and absolute paths, is unacceptable because?
20:55:57 <bsmntbombdood> "we see a strong relationship between overall health and sexual health"
20:56:07 <bsmntbombdood> "lubrication can help when vaginal dryness is an issue"
20:56:25 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: I care so little I can't even explain it.
20:57:02 * oerjan hands GregorR a microscope
20:57:29 <GregorR> I hope this is an electron microscope.
20:57:38 <ehird`> GregorR: wait no it is your method
20:57:49 <GregorR> ... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay :P
20:58:58 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]").
20:59:47 <ehird`> pushd "`dirname $1`" > /dev/null
20:59:47 <ehird`> FULLNAME="$PWD/`basename $1`"
20:59:47 <ehird`> pushd ~/shoes/dist > /dev/null
21:00:13 <GregorR> Well, my work here is done.
21:02:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
21:23:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:24:29 <GregorR> You see, what graue and ehird` have done here is made a strong statement on the true, underlying uncertainty and doubt of life. It's like they've said, "World, I have given up, I accept the fear and emptiness of life." It's a truly poetic statement.
21:27:04 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:28:04 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAA </Weltscmertz>
21:30:10 * oerjan never got to the accepting part
21:48:51 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
21:49:19 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:20:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:20:21 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:31:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:31:46 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:43:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
22:52:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:52:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
23:25:06 -!- Possum has joined.
23:30:00 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
23:47:08 -!- Slereah has joined.
00:03:50 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:08:52 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:09:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:27:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:27:34 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:30:02 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
00:30:22 -!- ehird` has joined.
00:30:57 <ehird`> what's the sine port again
00:31:49 <ehird`> * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
00:32:19 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
00:32:36 -!- ehird` has joined.
00:32:46 <ehird`> Sgeo: i just can't join
00:51:39 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:04:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:04:28 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:04:48 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
01:12:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:12:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
01:47:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:51:00 -!- pikhq has joined.
03:19:45 -!- Slereah- has joined.
03:20:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:20:38 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:26:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:29:04 -!- immibis has joined.
03:34:31 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:40:02 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:22:21 * immibis made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around.
04:22:32 <immibis> http://kevan.org/rubicon/game.php?level=rybibir
05:16:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
05:19:00 <oklopol> how long do flies live... this guy is still moving his feet around :O
05:19:27 <oklopol> i guess it's a chick, though.
05:26:04 * immibis repeats that he made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around.
05:36:01 * immibis repeats his repeated statement that he made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around.
05:49:43 * immibis repeats his statement and asks if anyone who views it could tell me so i know how many people are interested nin rubicon
06:04:13 <immibis> rubicon is based on an esoteric language, RUBE, therefore you can write programs with it.
06:10:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:15:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:45:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:45:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:31:41 -!- dbc has joined.
07:34:23 * immibis finds that rubicon keeps crashing firefox
07:34:50 -!- oklopol has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:28 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. For Sale: Parachute. Only used once).
08:04:08 -!- AnMaster has joined.
08:25:44 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
08:46:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:07:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
09:18:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:33:36 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:46:59 -!- jix has joined.
13:30:17 -!- puzzlet has joined.
13:42:18 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out).
14:33:38 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:35:13 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:35:22 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:05:40 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:17:13 <ais523> you have the first comment in the logs for today, well done
15:17:27 <ais523> (the first action of all is immibis' quit message)
15:17:36 <ais523> (and it even fit on the line for once)
15:18:54 <ais523> I just came across the article "Two envelopes problem" on Wikipedia
15:19:35 <ais523> there are two envelopes, and one contains twice as much money as the other
15:20:19 <ais523> whichever one you take, it makes more sense to take the other one, as you have a 1 in 2 chance of doubling the amount of money you get and a 1 in 2 chance of halving the amount of money you get, so you get more on average
15:21:16 <ais523> there's a version in which you're allowed to look in one of the envelopes first
15:21:27 <ais523> so my reasoning is 'if it contains an odd amount of money, take the other one'
15:21:31 <ais523> but this doesn't work in all cases
15:25:18 -!- sebbu has joined.
15:28:06 <oklopol> ais523: what's the reason? i've seen many paradoxes like these, and can't really see what goes wrong
15:28:49 <ais523> I think the problem is thinking about 'which one you have at the moment' as having a certain value that you currently have
15:29:14 <ais523> the difference in money between the two envelopes is fixed, although you don't know what it is
15:29:37 <ais523> so the amount you might gain is the same as the amount you might lose
15:29:47 <ais523> it's just a different proportion to the current envelope
15:33:12 <oklopol> i actually solved this one, and it's pretty trivial i think, but i'll say it anyway: you have three doors, behind one there's a car, and you get it if you guess right; you choose a door, and one of the other doors is opened, and it's empty; if you choose your original door, you get the car with 33% probability, if you change it, you get it with a 66% probability
15:33:41 <oklopol> this was in a book the gist of which was basically that statistics cannot be trusted
15:33:48 <Tritonio_> that's true and crazy at the same time
15:34:06 <Tritonio_> but it is easy to understand it if you imagine it with 1000 doors
15:34:16 * oerjan drops a Monty Hall on oklopol
15:34:33 <ais523> oklopol: that's pretty easy to explain, the door that's opened depends on which door you chose and so gives you some information about what's behind the doors you did and didn't choose
15:34:34 <Tritonio_> i am still thinking about the envelopes...
15:34:44 <oklopol> ais523: yes, as i said, trivial
15:34:51 <oklopol> and i'm sure most will think so too here
15:35:15 <oerjan> something big and heavy, i assume
15:35:18 <ais523> well, just in case someone is watching and was wondering, or sees it in the logs
15:36:13 <oklopol> hmm... the fly from last night seems to be dead :O
15:37:15 <ais523> did you expend any effort on trying to kill it?
15:38:17 <oklopol> no no, i let it die of natural causes
15:38:36 <oklopol> i only believe in euthanasy when it comes to people, and correct my typing
15:38:37 <ais523> you should have put it into a complicated machine of pipes and valves and so on and let it act like an instruction pointer
15:38:51 <ais523> but I suppose maybe you didn't have one to hand
15:39:15 <oklopol> i agree that would've been the most humane choise
15:40:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
15:46:12 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:47:39 -!- oklopol_ has joined.
15:47:50 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol.
15:49:44 <ais523> and how easily did you recover?
15:50:47 -!- oklopol has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!.
15:50:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out).
15:51:29 <oklopol> for a while some of the text was white
15:51:52 <oklopol> i didn't really do anything to crash
15:52:18 <oklopol> i was doing some pythoning, but i was typing something on irc when it crashed
15:52:34 <oerjan> you just added http:// ?
15:53:27 <oerjan> sort of took those away to make more room in the topic / make the topic shorter
15:53:52 <oklopol> "Don't spam... Don't spam... Don't spam..."
15:54:15 <ais523> maybe we should make a new channel with the same purpose as #esoteric but where spamming is explicitly allowed
15:54:17 <oklopol> make those into one, and it'll be shorter, take http away, and make life hell for people like me who have a sucky client.
15:54:49 <oklopol> ais523: #esoteric-blah, although it's just me and ehird, and neither is there right now :D
15:55:04 <ais523> oklopol: another good channel to know about
15:55:19 <oklopol> well, it's not that allowed there either, or i'd spam it 24/7
15:56:10 <oklopol> i gotta get back on my thing ->
15:58:24 <oklopol> bsmnt_bot: is what working?
15:59:16 <bsmnt_bot> bsmnt_bot sends messages to where the last ~exec command was
15:59:36 <bsmnt_bot> leading to amusing situations like this one
15:59:46 <oklopol> ais523: since you are now the official ca guy here, i implemented rule 110 on bsmnt_bot once, changed topic accordingly :D
16:00:05 <oklopol> eh.. because of your guyness -> you must be interested to here ...
16:00:09 <ais523> well, it was a Turing machine, not a CA
16:00:40 <oklopol> both are very limited substitution systems
16:00:51 <oklopol> and pretty similarly limited
16:01:02 <ais523> but the parallelism makes quite a difference
16:01:29 <oklopol> true, in case that makes it less interesting, sorry i told ya ;)
16:01:44 <ais523> I'm also interested in CAs as it happens
16:01:56 <oklopol> well, that was pretty much it.
16:02:30 <oklopol> it was a python script, so not that hard
16:02:33 <ais523> maybe we could create a Turing machine simulator on one of the bots
16:03:22 <oklopol> if you want a 2d turing machine..
16:04:03 <oklopol> yeah, should be pretty easy
16:10:10 <ais523> you could effectively simulate a TM by writing the rules in Thue or Thutu
16:12:51 <oklopol> i may now have what i've always wanted: a way to play multiple sine waves at once
16:13:08 <ais523> that's quite easy with most sound cards
16:13:23 <ais523> OTOH, I came across a program once that could play chords out of the computer's internal speaker
16:13:35 <ais523> 'twas a proprietary game, so I have no idea how it managed it
16:14:07 <oklopol> well the speaker is fully deterministic at the moves of the cone
16:14:35 <oklopol> you can cheat by changing the frequency constantly, to get it to move anywhere you want
16:15:01 <ais523> I thought of that, but wouldn't know how to go about working out the pattern
16:18:10 <oklopol> you gotta have the spec of the speaker or something
16:18:37 <oklopol> it's impossible to deduce the actual movements of the sound-nipple otherwise
16:19:45 <oklopol> what's __radd__ in python :\
16:20:40 <oklopol> Slereah-: yes, that's the official term
16:20:56 <ais523> oklopol: what language is __radd__ in?
16:21:20 <ais523> the pattern of underscores would suggest an extended version of C, but I don't know which
16:21:40 <oklopol> Slereah-: remember to pass everything you learn from me through a filter though
16:22:13 <oklopol> it applies when it's the right value of +!
16:22:14 <Slereah-> Well, if it contains the word nipple, should I really filter it?
16:22:38 <oklopol> Slereah-: yes, nipples are nsfep
16:22:50 <oklopol> not suitable for esoteric programming, tha is
16:23:07 <oklopol> i guess cones don't have much to do with esolangs
16:23:16 <Slereah-> Typing with your nipples can be painful indeed.
16:23:24 <oklopol> and i also guess you could make a lang out of nipples.
16:26:03 <oklopol> YEAH SO OKAY, I HAVE THE GREATEST IDEA FOR AN ESOLANG: NIPPLE, TITTIES, BOOBIES, KNOCKERS, BREASTS, HOOTERS, MELONS AND CANS USED AS THE 8 BRAINFUCK COMMANDS
16:26:21 <oklopol> nipple is out of place there
16:31:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Fnord").
16:38:22 <ais523> making variants on BF that only differ in the names for the commands isn't a very interesting thing to do once you've already seen 10 or 20 of them
16:38:45 <ais523> the Braintwist- and Brainfork-like variants are more interesting
16:38:56 <ais523> if there isn't one already, I propose a variant that does backtracking
16:42:10 <oklopol> brainfork is one of my favorites, even though i've never tried it :)
16:42:19 <ais523> oh, now I realise why your post was in allcaps
16:43:48 <oklopol> soon i'll be composing symphonies in python
16:44:46 <oklopol> hmm... i get an evil click between notes... any of ya have a good algo for anti-aliasing waves? :P
16:45:00 <oklopol> doesn't have to be good, just like, fairly decent
16:47:02 <oklopol> okay, i'll make it really stupid
16:47:12 <oklopol> but not stupid enough that i could explain it in an irc message
16:49:36 <ais523> try waiting for the transition until a point when both the old and new sine wave have the same phase; that's the usual way to get rid of clicks
16:49:52 <oklopol> hmm, it's too generic for that to be possible
16:49:56 <oklopol> i allow for any wave function
16:50:20 <oklopol> i'll just make it fade in every separate set of bytes to output as sound data.
16:51:09 <oklopol> you have to be able to play any set of sounds for any amount of bytes
16:51:24 <oklopol> and then continue with any set of sounds for any amount of bytes without a click
16:55:02 <ais523> maybe you could phase-shift the second sound to match the first? In theory, it ought to sound the same except for the click
16:55:14 <ais523> but that'll need Fourier transforms as far as I know
16:57:12 <oklopol> it should be possible to scroll the waves forward until the cone positions match
16:57:45 <oklopol> the problem is it doesn't suffice if the function is continuous, the human ear will notice a sudden change in derivative
16:59:34 <oklopol> if i can explain this... i'll try
17:01:56 <oklopol> hmm-1 0 1 2 3 4 5 || this is where we last stopped, now getting 8 9 10 to output, so we reverse the end of our last input except the very last, to get, say: 4 3 2 1; now 5 was the last one we actually output, so we iterate the start of what we need to output now, and always average it with
17:02:37 <ais523> "too hard to explain...": that's a good property for esolangs to have, surely?
17:02:54 <oklopol> this is not an esolang yet
17:03:03 <oklopol> although i *am* planning to add one over it.
17:03:28 <oklopol> i haven't seen him for years
17:10:04 <oklopol> god it gets complicated if i make it do phase-shifts...
17:10:22 <oklopol> i'll do it though, since i didn't get this to work right away :P
17:10:33 <ais523> RodgerTheGreat Last Seen: 5 days (23h 21m 47s) ago
17:14:46 <oklopol> the problem is i don't want the player to need to know about waves...
17:14:57 <oklopol> so i need to move the problem one level up
17:15:16 <oklopol> which clutters things a bit unless i do some refactorizationing
17:15:49 * ais523 is getting annoyed at a stupid website they're forced to use
17:16:15 <ais523> it decides it doesn't support the browser I'm using because it's Firefox 2, not Firefox 1 or 1.5
17:16:21 <ais523> so it isn't on the supported list
17:17:13 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:25:13 -!- ais523 has quit ("look, it's a quit message injection atttack:"; Remote closed the connection // comment out the rest").
17:30:09 <oklopol> i now do the phase shift, no effect whatsoever :<
17:35:02 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:36:16 <oklopol> i now do the phase shift, no effect whatsoever :<
17:37:07 <ais523> I'm not sure I can help you there, then, even though I'm supposed to be doing a degree in this sort of thing
17:37:33 <oklopol> okay, tracked one place with audacity
17:37:42 <oklopol> there's like a million little wave bumps
17:37:49 <oklopol> and a slight change in one of them
17:38:35 <oklopol> i know it's not the human ear that does it, since it's an actual click, perhaps my point is there should be antialiasing on a lower lever for idiots like me
17:39:55 <ais523> the click is how you hear any sudden jump in amplitude level
17:40:17 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it's the speaker that does it.
17:40:44 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it amplifies it because it can't do a sudden jump like that
17:40:52 <oklopol> that sounds ridiculous, you're prolly right
17:47:46 <oklopol> i found a problem in that technique
17:49:11 <oklopol> basically, if the frequency is only changed a little, it so happens to phase will move just enough for it to be too far away from the last point to continue there, so it is iterated until it comes down, making every splitpoint an arrow pointing upwards
17:54:34 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:54:41 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:04:53 <oklopol> okay, there's almost no clicks no
18:05:04 <oklopol> far better than using winsound.Beep at least
18:18:13 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p525354434.txt the clicks are now only audible when a note is played twice in succession, which *should* make it fully legato it to the last note.
18:18:54 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
18:19:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:20:09 <oklopol> also there's something wrong with my wave adder, because the chords in the end make a clashing sound
18:20:23 <oklopol> and got i suck at onomatopoeia in english
18:23:35 <oklopol> (at least comment on my terrific melody!)
18:27:47 -!- lusum has joined.
18:36:27 <ais523> this machine doesn't have sound, so I can't check it for myself
18:37:01 <ais523> or rather, probably it does, but I'm accessing a mainframe from a terminal and I hate what to think would happen if your music ended up blaring out full volume in the server room
18:39:44 <oklopol> my music is not very suitable for hearing
18:40:10 <oklopol> especially pieces i type without thinking at all in 78 seconds
18:52:09 <ais523> have you ever listened to my 'Hello, World' program in Fugue?
18:52:19 <ais523> it's a bit of an acquired taste
18:53:53 <oklopol> your hello world in fugue?
18:59:03 <ais523> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/fugue/src/hworld.mid
19:00:05 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:03:49 <ais523> then go to http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Image:Hworld.png and play it on a piano
19:04:26 <ais523> Fugue source works a lot better in MIDI because that makes it a lot easier for a computer to figure out the intervals
19:32:44 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
19:33:49 <ais523> pikhq: you can't do that, now we're down to only three underscored accounts (4 counting bsmnt_bot)
19:34:23 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_.
19:36:35 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
19:39:21 -!- ais523 has quit ("because I have to quit sometime if I want to go home").
19:45:05 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:45:32 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:51:36 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:59:49 -!- lusum has left (?).
20:28:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:55:21 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:03:11 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
21:06:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:13:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:16:44 <GregorR> MUAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH
21:20:06 * oerjan wonders what is going on here
21:21:53 <oklopol> well, earlier i mentioned 110, puzzlet just implied in his quit msg, that he read "110" as "Connection reset by peer"
21:22:06 <oklopol> which is a pretty serious failure at readin
21:23:13 <GregorR> Hahaha, how can people be that stupid?
21:23:58 <oklopol> yeah, i'm still lolling too!
21:24:02 <oklopol> but i gotta go to sleep now, really
21:24:12 <oklopol> even though it's not actually late yet
21:25:26 <oerjan> er... thanks to the excellent prior advice of GregorR i am pretty sure those were _not_ user-supplied quit messages?
21:27:06 * oerjan decides you are putting him on
21:27:40 <GregorR> I tried to roll with it :P
21:32:26 <oerjan> MUAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHH
22:02:55 * oerjan doesn't think you got his joke either
22:11:52 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:50:27 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:10:39 -!- calamari has joined.
00:15:59 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:24:12 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:20:07 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
03:25:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:26:08 -!- puzzlet has joined.
04:26:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:27:01 -!- puzzlet has joined.
04:27:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
04:32:02 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:10:35 -!- immibis has joined.
05:12:04 * immibis keeps crashing firefox by playing rubicon too much
05:15:08 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
05:21:33 -!- TheProphet has joined.
05:25:10 <oerjan> Once upon a time there was a poor GregorR who invented a language called IRP. This eventually made many people on #esoteric angry, and has generally been considered a bad move.
05:25:53 <pikhq> Gregor would be executed for this crime. However, he has done enough good for #esoteric to have made amends for this.
05:26:24 <GregorR> He is, however, given forty lashes every time an IRP'er appears for his crimes.
05:26:57 <pikhq> Every new IRP'er is more pain to #esoteric, which most be mended.
05:33:04 <pikhq> With a pasty-white geek.
05:34:29 <GregorR> Hey, I'm not pasty-white 8-O
05:34:52 <pikhq> I bet you would be after the lashings.
05:38:03 -!- immibis_ has joined.
05:41:32 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.).
05:41:33 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis.
05:56:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit.
06:39:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
06:47:56 -!- TheProphet has quit ("Leaving").
06:54:37 <bsmntbombdood> and we should have a forum of esoteric where only morse is allowed
06:55:43 <immibis> what is morse code for a question mark?
06:57:04 * immibis wonders how many people here even know rubicon exists.
06:57:48 <immibis> i mean my "..." was not intended to be interpreted as morse code for EEE
06:58:35 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder how long it would take to learn morse code to a decent speed
07:07:31 * immibis thinks he's made a rubicon bubble sort.
07:13:08 * immibis again wonders aloud how many people in this channel know rubicon exists.
07:21:04 <GregorR> Heh, I just went from "what's a packrat parser" to "my packrat parser works" in 1.5 hours.
07:21:49 <immibis> what's a packrat parser anyway?
07:22:16 * immibis asks for everyone who knows what rubicon is to say yes and for everyone else to say no.
07:22:32 <immibis> could everyone who knows what rubicon is say yes and could everyone else say no?
07:26:25 <GregorR> As it turns out, the reason nothing seems to describe what a packrat parser is in detail is because it's really mind-bogglingly simple.
07:26:32 <GregorR> All it is is a memoized recursive descent parser.
07:27:32 <GregorR> Memoization == save the result and use that saved result if you're called again.
07:27:56 <GregorR> And no, I don't know what rubicon is, but I'm too stubborn to just say "no" 8-D
07:28:42 <immibis> rubicon is a game based on the RUBE language.
07:29:10 <immibis> RUBE is an esoteric language based on the idea of making a program out of a Rube Goldberg machine
07:29:29 <GregorR> Soooo, rubicon == The Incredible Machine?
07:29:45 <immibis> you can make programs in it too. i've made a 1-digit fibonacci sequence calculator and a thing to square a number in modulo 16.
07:32:32 <immibis> Rubicon uses most of the parts from RUBE.
07:39:42 * immibis asks gregorr if he has visited that page yet
07:39:50 <immibis> gregorr, have you visited that page yet?
07:42:58 <GregorR> I'm just staring a bit blankly at it :P
07:43:10 <GregorR> Did you write this or just find it?
07:43:59 <immibis> on http://esolangs.org/wiki/RUBE
07:50:10 * immibis almost crashes firefox for the (n^(10^(10^100)))'th time.
07:50:25 * immibis warns gregorr that if he tries to play it it may occasionally crash his browser
07:50:54 <immibis> oh and at school many people think 1^2 is 2.
07:52:53 * immibis means to the power of, not xor.
07:53:05 <immibis> by the same token, adding 1 and 2 = 0
07:54:40 <immibis> if you take it as (add (1 and 2))
07:55:48 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If your not living on the edge, you).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
11:11:59 <oklopol> why isn't immibis ever here when i am
11:12:45 <oklopol> also, (1 and 2) = 2, (add 2) is clearly 2
11:44:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
11:45:48 -!- asiekierka has joined.
11:46:35 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:48:21 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
11:48:49 <asiekierka> I have an idea. Doh. You'll hate it, but... Combine Deadfish, Deadfish~ and HQ9+
11:50:18 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
11:50:27 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:51:16 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
11:54:53 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:55:02 <asiekierka> Z - If the accumulator is non-zero, skip [the value of accumulator] commands.
11:55:08 <asiekierka> } - execute the next command [the value of accumulator] times.
11:58:47 <asiekierka> You can't go back, and that's the point too.
11:59:18 <oklopol> well duh. i meant a jump backwards.
11:59:41 <asiekierka> I'll add one more command to make it 13
12:00:02 <oklopol> just remove the squaring command
12:00:39 <oklopol> square does not preserve sign
12:02:22 <oklopol> a language with decrement + cubing and calculated gotos might be interesting
12:02:50 <asiekierka> If you don't like it, make one you like!
12:22:19 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:33:57 -!- jix has joined.
12:35:22 -!- AnMaster_ has joined.
12:46:13 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
12:49:47 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:55:29 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster.
13:37:38 -!- asiekierka has quit.
14:07:29 -!- ais523 has quit.
14:10:27 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
14:15:00 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:16:47 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
14:17:14 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:18:19 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:19:34 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:20:45 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
14:21:45 -!- ehird` has joined.
16:28:31 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:48:50 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:48:52 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:07:37 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:27:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:27:06 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
17:35:01 -!- jix has joined.
17:35:50 <ais523> it's been nothing but quit/join/nick messages for too long now
17:36:45 <ehird`> ais523: LIES, DAMNED LIES, AND STATISTICS
17:37:07 <ais523> surely there are more sorts of lies than that
17:37:17 <ais523> and besides, statistics can be used to support any viewpoint, even the truth
17:42:42 <jix> but that's boring
17:43:19 <ais523> you could support the truth in an invalid way
17:43:38 <ais523> you know, like pointing out the strong negative correlation between pirates and global warning
17:43:52 <ais523> *warming, but actually I prefer the typo
17:44:04 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:45:08 <oerjan> global waning, global warring, global whamming
17:46:14 <oerjan> global warping, of course
17:48:25 <oerjan> global farting (by cows)
17:48:37 <ais523> according to QI, termites are worse
17:49:56 <oerjan> i never meth ane termite that farted
17:50:15 <ais523> that pun was so bad it took me several seconds to get it
17:50:55 <oerjan> otoh i don't think we have termites in norway
17:51:30 * ais523 is trying to remember what a turmite is
17:51:37 * ais523 remembered while typing the previous comment
17:52:04 <ais523> it's a sort of cellular automaton in more than one dimension with movements like forward/back/turn left/turn right rather than up/down/left/right
17:52:18 <ais523> Langton's Ant is possibly the most famous example
17:52:44 <oerjan> you'd imagine so, by the name
17:53:41 <ais523> I wonder how usable-for-computation the Ant is
17:54:23 <ais523> there might be some way to set up some sort of infinite network with the ant moving from one cell to the next to simulate some sort of universal machine
17:54:30 <ais523> maybe a two-counter machine in the two dimensions?
17:54:59 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:57:57 <pikhq> The Ant is Turing complete, so the answer is "very". :p
17:59:02 <pikhq> I thought it was nothing more than a 2-dimensional Turing machine.
17:59:13 <pikhq> Correct me if I'm wrong. ;)
17:59:22 <oerjan> it is not just any of them
17:59:24 <ais523> not all Turing machines are Turing complete
17:59:37 <ais523> otherwise winning $25000 would have been somewhat trivial
17:59:46 <oerjan> my impression from the wikipedia article is it may be unknown:
18:00:03 <oerjan> Other initial configurations seem eventually to converge to similar repetitive patterns suggesting that the "highway" is an attractor of Langton's ant, but no one has been able to prove that this is true for all initial configurations. It is only known that ant's trajectory is always unbounded regardless of the initial configuration
18:00:49 <oerjan> if it _is_ always true that it turns repetitive then it cannot be TC since you could solve the halting problem
18:01:13 <ais523> that would prove it couldn't be TC with a finitely-many-nonblank-cells initial condition
18:01:28 <ais523> a repeating pattern or a nested pattern might work
18:05:33 <ais523> the easiest way to get the Ant from place to place is to guide it along a one-pixel-wide path
18:05:47 <ais523> the problem with doing this is that the path moves one pixel sideways in the process
18:24:18 -!- RedDak has joined.
18:28:20 -!- Jontte has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:29:35 -!- Jontte has joined.
18:47:08 -!- sebbu has joined.
19:06:40 -!- ais523 has quit.
19:18:01 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:20:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:20:30 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
19:28:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
19:43:09 -!- luke-jr has joined.
19:43:25 -!- luke-jr has left (?).
20:06:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:06:59 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
20:23:36 -!- Alvin^ has joined.
20:38:28 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:44:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
21:05:58 <Sgeo> Slereah-, will DS install?
21:07:36 <Slereah-> What will be the point if I can't install C3 first?
21:08:27 <Sgeo> Why won't C3 install?
21:08:36 <Sgeo> And I've installed C3 after DS >.>
21:11:00 <Slereah-> Well, then again, it's only the autorun on the CD. Maybe I can just launch the install directly, thinking about it
21:12:27 <Sgeo> Oh, when you get C3 installed, be sure to do Update 2
21:23:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:23:56 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:05:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:00:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:06:26 -!- Alvin^ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:23:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
00:23:18 -!- wolfy has joined.
00:24:12 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
00:33:10 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:41:10 -!- wolfy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:40:51 -!- immibis has joined.
01:53:16 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. OUCH!!!").
02:33:19 -!- Slereah has joined.
03:02:52 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:57:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:57:17 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:02:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:08:30 -!- puzzlet__ has joined.
05:13:46 -!- puzzlet_1 has joined.
05:14:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out).
05:20:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
05:20:50 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:23:01 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out).
05:25:06 -!- puzzlet_1 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:26:00 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:26:16 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:32:15 -!- puzzlet__ has joined.
05:39:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:44:00 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:58:31 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:58:33 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:21:09 -!- immibis has joined.
06:22:11 * immibis was asked by google "Did you mean: Interfering with wikipedia?"
06:28:55 * immibis searched for "interfacing with wikipedia"
06:32:09 * immibis 's client does not display characters as UTF-8
06:32:30 * oklopol needs to learn some japans
06:32:42 * oerjan almost assumed pikhq was being confused, with all those question marks
06:33:01 <immibis> oerjan: it was a string of characters encoded as UTF-8
06:33:10 <immibis> oklopol: there's only one japan
06:33:27 <oerjan> but sometimes i forget
06:33:46 * immibis is annoyed that the creator of rubicon won't release its source code
06:47:15 * pikhq declares that the lack of source code denies it from being an esolang
06:48:03 <pikhq> Oh, RUBE is the esolang.
06:48:31 <pikhq> Which just means that I should go bow before my shrine to cpressy for a bit.
06:49:27 <pikhq> Although I should make one.
06:49:38 * pikhq gets the Befunge source code printed out
06:54:46 <pikhq> I intend to sleep. This is an unregulated action.
06:54:51 <pikhq> I cause the AFO to do the same.
07:06:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:06:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:16:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:16:19 -!- puzzlet has joined.
07:26:36 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:33:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out).
07:38:24 * immibis 's browser tried to display a backup as a webpage.
07:42:24 <immibis> [20:42] ->> #esoteric :No such nick/channel
07:43:08 <immibis> i said /invite #esoteric #hadjin
07:43:20 <immibis> so the server said #esoteric: No such nick/channel
07:44:07 <oerjan> sounds like a lie to me
07:46:08 <immibis> oerjan: /invite #something #something_else
07:53:11 <oerjan> hm... why is there about a _page_ of invites to #hadjin in my status window...
07:54:37 <immibis> because i wanted to find out how long it would take you to notice?
07:55:36 <oerjan> nah, even you cannot be _that_ annoying *ducks*
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:06:30 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:14:33 -!- asiekierka has joined.
08:16:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
08:43:47 -!- jix has joined.
10:05:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
10:05:27 -!- puzzlet has joined.
10:18:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
10:26:18 -!- puzzlet has joined.
11:24:57 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:41:55 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
11:42:05 -!- jix has joined.
12:14:07 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:18:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:18:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
13:33:20 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:47:03 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
14:49:14 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:54:25 <ehird`> i'm here every day, in case you didn't notice
16:19:44 -!- Figs4 has joined.
16:20:15 -!- Figs4 has changed nick to Figs.
16:21:40 <Figs> Is "multiple dispatch" really any different than overloading on C-style functions?
16:21:57 <Figs> (ie, not owned by an object)
16:22:23 <Figs> or am I missing the concept? :P
16:22:30 <Figs> {I assume I am}
16:23:47 <Figs> Oh... I think I see it
16:24:12 <ehird`> You are missing the concept
16:24:43 <Figs> yeah, I think I just got it
16:26:16 <Figs> if I have a collide(collidable x, collidable y) where collidable is abstract... then in Java/C++-like languages it won't actually go ahead and automatically call say collide(spaceship x,asteroid y)...
16:26:54 <Figs> that's the difference, right?
16:27:27 <Figs> (or as nearly as I can explain it in my crappy thought->writing attempt)
16:27:46 <Figs> yay for mangled language terms :D
16:27:53 <Figs> wikipedia confused me :P
16:28:03 <Figs> but I think I got it
16:28:55 <Figs> I've been thinking about a lot of weird shit this morning.
16:29:06 <Figs> Data representation.
16:30:27 <Figs> I feel crazy. :D
16:31:15 <Figs> type systems, object orientation, constraints, logic, generics, functional programing, etc... @_@
16:33:05 <ehird`> i really want an esolang like befunge but with no data storage apart from the code field
16:33:21 <ehird`> and no control structures except conditional ways to shift about stuff in the code field
16:33:25 <Figs> It would be interesting if we had a proper Type data type in regular programming that we could later instantiate...
16:34:01 <Figs> in some languages :)
16:34:07 <ehird`> It's called 'Class'. You'll find it in Smalltalk, Ruby, and several others.
16:34:12 <ehird`> In Io, it's called Object.
16:34:23 <ehird`> Because there are no classes. You just clone objects, modify them, and later clone them to create 'instances'
16:34:47 <Figs> prototype OO? :)
16:36:13 <Figs> do you read Squidi?
16:36:22 <ehird`> take a look at the sample code: http://www.iolanguage.com/about/samplecode/
16:37:25 <Figs> he's been posting for a while about a procedural generation concept for games that he's been thinking about for a while, and I think he's basically reinvented generics and inheritance in a different context
16:38:07 <Figs> which got me thinking about how we represent data in general
16:39:46 <Figs> IO isn't supposed to be esoteric, is it?
16:40:52 <ehird`> but it is certainly esoteric in parts
16:40:54 <ehird`> all good languages are :)
16:41:27 * Figs points to the mathematicians and logicians
16:43:16 <Figs> I've been thinking that there's a second way to classify types other than inheritance: any type that matches some constrains (ex, has a property P, does ___, etc.)
16:43:30 <Figs> hardly a new idea, of course :)
16:43:49 <Figs> but it's got my head running around again, I guess.
16:44:49 <Figs> I was thinking of something slightly different from ducktyping, I think
16:45:05 <Figs> ie, creation of new types later that effectively act as parents explicitly
16:45:14 <Figs> without having inheritance hierarchies
16:45:22 <Figs> (in the traditional sense)
16:46:47 <Figs> object Foo { property A,B,C... }; type Foo-Like {has A,B,C...}
16:48:26 <ehird`> except "has" and "property" are implicit
16:49:36 <Figs> I guess you could think of it as an explicit version of ducktyping
16:49:50 <Figs> that's probably the best way to talk about it, I guess.
16:50:10 <ehird`> ducktyping is all about implicitness in semantics, why add explicitness in syntax?
16:50:52 <Figs> object Cat {...} type Mammal {...} myFunction(Mammal xyz) {...}?
16:51:59 <Figs> object and type were just the words that came to mind, how you do it doesn't matter :P
16:52:01 <ehird`> myFunction(xyz with-method make_sound) { xyz.make_sound(); }
16:52:13 <ehird`> myFunction(new cat) # meow
16:52:23 <ehird`> myFunction(new mammal) # not-implemented-error
16:52:30 <ehird`> myFunction(new object) # no matching function found
16:52:53 <Figs> you'd have to type xyz with-method make_sound over and over though, no?
16:53:32 <Figs> (if you have a bunch of functions that operated on things that make sounds)
16:54:03 <ehird`> class mytype = with-method make_sound;
16:54:09 <ehird`> myFunction(mytype xyz) { ... }
16:54:21 <Figs> there you go, that's exactly what I'm talking about :)
16:54:36 <Figs> just different syntax from what I wrote above
16:54:52 <Figs> but that's what I was trying to say
16:55:11 <Figs> my ability to express things today has just been shitty :P
16:55:55 <ehird`> well, Foo-Like is similar
16:55:59 <ehird`> but there is no "property a,b,c"
16:56:05 <Figs> with-method is just the same as "has" as far as I'm thinking
16:56:22 <Figs> I'm not really thinking about a specific syntax, just a general idea of relating things
16:57:36 <Figs> what language uses "class mytype = with-method make_sound;"? I'd like to take a better look at it
17:05:41 -!- ehird`_ has joined.
17:06:05 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:07:43 <ehird`_> none! it was pseudocode :-)
17:07:54 <ehird`_> i can make a language for it if you want
17:08:17 <Figs> what I mean, I guess is that a lot of what I understand of duck typing would basically be like
17:08:37 <Figs> function Foo(a) { a.quack(); a.walkLikeDuck(); }
17:09:24 <ehird`_> but it is basically equiv to your example
17:09:28 <Figs> what I mean is
17:09:46 <Figs> you'd have to look in the method for the quack() and the walkLikeDuck()
17:10:31 <Figs> instead of seeing Foo(Duck a) {...now I know that 'a' must quack() and walkLikeDuck() without actually looking through the function...}
17:11:17 <Figs> but my class DonaldDuck doesn't ever have to declare that it is-a duck [through inheritance, etc]
17:13:32 <Figs> I'm just sort of poking at the border between generics and duck typing, I guess
17:13:38 <ehird`_> + length [1 2 3] sum map lambda [x] [* x 2] [4 5 6] <-- pretty esoteric looking, isn't it?
17:13:53 <Figs> what is it? Haskell?
17:14:56 <ehird`_> nah, i cooked it up just now
17:15:06 <ehird`_> it's just "func args", where args is a fixed number
17:15:11 <ehird`_> and, of course [...] for a list
17:15:18 <ehird`_> since the code is just a list in essence that works well
17:15:26 <ehird`_> and also makes it homonononomorphic, like lisp and factor
17:15:36 <ehird`_> + length . 1 . 2 . 3 nil sum map lambda . x nil . * . x . 2 nil . 4 . 5 . 6 nil
17:15:45 <ehird`_> got rid of [...] in favour of lisp-style cons'
17:17:14 <ehird`_> but the final esotericness?
17:17:16 <ehird`_> +l.1.2.3;S_\.x;.*.x.2;.4.5.6;
17:17:21 <ehird`_> made everything single-character.
17:17:33 <Figs> I think you can make it worse still :)
17:17:35 <ehird`_> Figs: implement the above. yes/no
17:18:14 <Figs> make it so operations like +, l, etc must be called by table ID in a list of all functions in the program...
17:18:32 <ehird`_> remove named arguments from lambdas
17:18:44 <ehird`_> just have function composition (+ lambdas are curried)
17:18:48 <Figs> remove constants
17:19:01 <Figs> make it so you have to generate them by function composition
17:19:23 <Figs> from 1 and -1 as functions in the table...
17:19:40 <ehird`_> (renamed length to ?, removed lambda since with just composition you can just use lists)
17:19:50 <ehird`_> actually, if we have currying:
17:20:12 <ehird`_> fixed number of arguments.
17:23:31 <ehird`_> Figs: that's a pretty esoteric way of saying
17:23:49 <Figs> so say you had like @3 is add, @5 is multiply, @6 is one @9 is -1... then making the number 20 is: @5 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 @6)))) (@3 @6 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 @6))) assuming I didn't fuck up
17:24:38 <Figs> you could make it worse by using weird numbers instead of 1 and -1... like, 13 and -47
17:25:55 <ehird`_> and make @x one character somehow
17:26:53 <ehird`_> "if first bit is 0, read the rest as a number then move onto the next byte and continue reading as binary"
17:27:04 <ehird`_> "if first bit is 1, read rest as number and we're done with this number"
17:27:13 <ehird`_> and keep it in the range of displayable ascii chars
17:27:20 <ehird`_> and have the numbers be lookups
17:27:25 <ehird`_> its still TC since they can be bignums
17:28:07 <ehird`_> "~{£P"£+_C)+WA:R~£:$G_)£I_)|@~>W~@$F?£~@R>ASD(AW)(E"KJFpL~@Sld[aslkd09AEJ-0k-w039i90opak@:LASD8
17:28:11 <Figs> A3huiol32*()#52#*90klVF#@#{-345____#$u980#@&$(*)@!$#*(HJ&*VVH*(#O@U%LL@#%>,../.2.3*%(#
17:28:52 <Figs> better yet, just restrict it to the top row symbols on the keyboard and every other one is "done with this number"
17:29:05 <Figs> would be continuables
17:29:28 <Figs> even EgoBot is confused now :D
17:30:09 <Figs> don't make it so obvious :)
17:30:15 <Figs> ~#$&() are continue
17:30:20 <Figs> and the rest aren't
17:30:24 <Figs> (so not every other one)
17:30:30 <Figs> (but some bizare set)
17:30:41 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:30:45 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:30:55 <Figs> and restrict the number of characters per action to 5
17:31:13 <ehird`_> ok, so now that we have the syntax
17:31:15 <Figs> make one of the functions a function that replaces a function
17:31:17 <ehird`_> let's define the standard table!
17:31:26 <ehird`_> (not your top-row syntax, mine :P)
17:32:14 <Figs> like, make kfC set the next value given to it to the function behavior described by a lambda given after it
17:32:51 <ehird`_> 0 takes two arguments, a lambda and a list, and returns a list with all elements applied to the lambda
17:33:01 <ehird`_> the syntax just specifies numbers
17:33:29 <Figs> you could make it complicated by rotating the list in sets of 13
17:35:04 <Figs> you could make it shift by the # of functions called in the program so far...
17:36:28 <Figs> or xor each byte returned with the #F called mod 31
17:37:08 <Figs> yeah, I'm just getting silly now
17:41:21 <Figs> I think the term for I was talking about is "structural typing"
17:41:29 <ehird`_> <Figs> you could make it shift by the # of functions called in the program so far...
17:41:31 <Figs> at least, reading about it, it sounds similar
17:42:04 <Figs> alternate in sets of three
17:42:23 <Figs> < < >, < > <, < > <, repeat?
17:42:48 <ehird`_> so, number of funcs seen in source code
17:43:16 <Figs> it's so complicated already, you'd probably have to program a computer to program in it to program anything significant in it
17:44:27 <Figs> interesting ...
17:44:36 <ehird`_> i am going to write a compiler for it
17:44:42 <ehird`_> compiling to C, using continuation-passing-style
17:44:52 <Figs> continuation-passing?
17:45:10 <ehird`_> (Don't wikipedia it, it's technical there)
17:45:38 <ehird`_> then pushes the current state
17:45:43 <ehird`_> then pops back to that state
17:46:30 <ehird`_> (f 1 2 (LAMBDA-WITH-RESULT-AS-X (g 3 4 (LWRA-Y (+ X Y))))
17:46:45 <ehird`_> you can just push the arguments and that function (the continuation) to the stack
17:46:59 <ehird`_> then, when it's done, it continues executing from the lambda, called with the result
17:47:13 <ehird`_> it's not an interpretation strategy although you could use it that way
17:47:15 <Figs> I don't see yet, but let me think for a minute
17:47:18 <ehird`_> more of a compiling strategy
17:47:52 <Figs> f and g taking 3 params?
17:47:59 <Figs> with the third as the function called?
17:48:10 <ehird`_> (f 1 2 (LAMBDA-WITH-RESULT-AS-X (g 3 4 (LWRA-Y (+ X Y NIL-LAMBDA))))
17:48:14 <ehird`_> there, with NIL-LAMBDA you can see
17:48:30 <Figs> then it becomes basically like tail-recursion?
17:48:32 <ehird`_> every F taking arguments N now takes N+1 arguments, and its first N arguments must be simple atoms
17:48:37 <ehird`_> but not function calls, etc
17:48:45 <ehird`_> you execute the innermost function
17:48:50 <ehird`_> which then tailcalls the Nth argument
17:48:57 <ehird`_> until you get to the toplevel
17:49:08 <ehird`_> you never need to push to a callstack
17:49:42 <Figs> I have to remember that one :D
17:50:14 <ehird`_> here's one way to think about it, Figs.
17:51:26 <Figs> I think I get it :)
17:52:06 -!- Slereah- has joined.
17:52:18 <Figs> what are the limits of it?
17:52:58 <ehird`_> any expression can be converted to it
17:53:33 <ehird`_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation-passing_style has a factorial and other examples
17:53:49 <ehird`_> the return parameter in them is called 'k'
17:55:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:55:21 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
18:00:57 <Figs> what exactly is a "normal form"? O.o
18:01:06 * Figs is reading about ANF now
18:02:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:02:45 <Figs> Administrative Normal Form
18:03:43 <Figs> is it just the "standard way" to represent a particular type of information? or does it mean more than just the regular meaning of "normal"?
18:07:03 <Figs> hrm. well there's also CNF (Chomsky Normal Form) which is a context free grammar without epsilon except optionally for the start rule, afaict.
18:27:18 -!- Jontte has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
18:28:41 -!- Jontte has joined.
18:35:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:35:14 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:51:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:52:03 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:58:41 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
19:00:02 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
19:08:50 -!- asiekierka has quit.
19:10:56 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:21:27 <Figs> foo = 3/*bar;/*comment or division by deref?*/
19:21:41 <ehird`_> where did i see that again
19:21:59 <Figs> that just killed my happy place. :(
19:23:00 <ehird`_> because /* out of a string ALWAYS means comment
19:23:16 <Figs> yeah, but it still makes me sad :P
19:24:16 <Figs> no syntax highlighter (or improperly working one) and lack of obvious */ might make you think it's supposed to be the other... :P
19:24:33 <Figs> reminds me of the \ in a comment...
19:25:42 <ehird`_> someone should make a c program with loads of stuff like that
19:25:47 <ehird`_> looking pretty trivial as if it does something
19:25:51 <ehird`_> but it really does something entirely different;
19:28:13 <Figs> I just had a really fucked up idea
19:28:54 <Figs> we should figure out how to write a compile-time "lambda" in C++ templates...
19:29:08 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:29:24 <Figs> I mean, it's technically turing complete...
19:29:30 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
19:30:01 <ehird`_> people have written factorials in it, people have solved the Queens problem in it
19:30:06 <ehird`_> it's not interesting any more
19:30:10 <Figs> Yeah, that's not what I meant though
19:30:28 <ehird`_> http://www.boost.org/libs/lambda/ does it
19:31:09 <Figs> that's totally not what I meant :)
19:35:01 <ehird`_> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_UNIX_has_GUI this is some kind of abstract poetry
19:35:22 <oerjan> <Figs> object Foo { property A,B,C... }; type Foo-Like {has A,B,C...}
19:35:43 <oerjan> reinventing haskell type classes?
19:36:03 <oerjan> or perhaps Ocaml object types
19:39:16 <oerjan> or would that be ocaml polymorphic records
19:40:27 <oerjan> anyway that's probably "structural typing", assuming it's static
19:48:40 <oerjan> um, you already found out
19:50:14 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:50:44 <Figs> Yeah, I already found it, but thanks :D
19:50:59 <Figs> ehird`_: no, hang on a second...
19:51:24 <Figs> http://rafb.net/p/oVaoH683.html
19:52:52 <Figs> there you go :D
19:52:59 <Figs> think like that, only much worse...
19:54:17 <oerjan> "normal form" usually means some kind of reduced representation, after you've done a set of simplifications or calculations
19:54:38 <ehird`_> oerjan: e.g. 2 + 2's normal form is 4
19:55:06 <Figs> ehird`_: I thought Boost's lambda was rather different, ie, the function gets called at runtime
19:55:12 <oerjan> but exactly what normal form means depends on what simplifications you are talking about
19:55:24 <Figs> whereas everything I'm talking about never gets past compiling
19:56:52 <oerjan> i could add Cantor normal form which is a normal form for transfinite ordinals, disjunctive and conjuctive normal forms which are normal forms for boolean expressions, etc.
19:58:06 <ehird`_> Figs: basically you want what you linked but with arbitary arguments
20:12:15 <oerjan> <Figs> foo = 3/*bar;/*comment or division by deref?*/
20:12:34 <oerjan> thus haskell's decision to avoid unary operators
20:13:10 <oerjan> other than unary minus, no two operators can follow each other
20:13:32 <oerjan> although sadly {- starts a comment
20:14:57 <oerjan> otoh { - is probably not legal haskell unless you write a very weird Num instance
20:16:30 <oerjan> darn, case -2 of { -2 -> "alas"; _ -> "nope" } is possible
20:17:40 <ehird`_> oerjan's dreams of sensible haskell syntax are shattered!
20:18:18 <oerjan> if they had chosen {* or something it would not have been a problem, since * is only infix :(
20:18:39 <oerjan> oh, there are much worse things in haskell syntax
20:21:01 <oerjan> the report is not sensible on precedence resolution for example - mixing it in with general parsing. although every compiler ignores the corner cases and resolves separately anyway
20:32:15 <Figs> all this metaprogramming is breaking my mind :D
20:54:06 <oerjan> i never metapr*OUCH, STOP IT!*
21:01:26 -!- oerjan has quit ("Out to meta food").
21:03:23 <ehird`_> i never metaclass that didn't talk about itself
21:11:02 <pikhq> <typename T>T foo;
21:21:43 <pikhq> foo<int> = 5; foo<bool> = false;
21:40:27 <Figs> I'm actually starting to like Java
21:40:34 <Figs> it's a bit more sane than C++
21:41:09 <Figs> on the other hand, it's kinda verbose
21:41:29 <Figs> I do like the fact that I can set just about everything to null and return null all over the place
21:41:41 <Figs> makes life that much simpler
21:43:05 <ehird`_> Figs: use a real language for a bit
21:43:30 * Figs starts trying to get work coding in Brainfuck...
21:43:51 <Figs> I'm learning Java for my CS class
21:44:07 <pikhq> In C++, you can return null.
21:44:10 <ehird`_> on any account do not let yourself be lost!
21:44:20 <pikhq> Make every function a void *.
21:44:32 <Figs> that's the obnoxious way though :)
21:48:14 <ehird`_> return nix_ObjectFromState(state, NIX_NIL);
21:51:43 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:52:42 <pikhq> typeof(<typename T> T)
21:56:01 <pikhq> <typename T>T foo<typeof(stack<int> foobar.top)> = 5;
21:56:23 * pikhq is an evil bastard
21:56:31 <Figs> I don't think that's valid C++
21:56:38 <ehird`_> Figs: it is, i know that much
21:56:49 <pikhq> typeof isn't a C++ keyword.
21:56:57 <pikhq> It's a GNU C++ keyword, however.
21:57:11 <Figs> what are you assigning 5 to?
21:58:01 <Figs> I don't think that's a valid way to write that.
21:58:08 <Figs> lemme play with it
21:58:31 <pikhq> stack<int> foobar;
21:58:44 <Figs> (usually, vector<int> foo, no? not vector foo<int> and you don't put the <typename T> before declaring a variable like that in normal use.
21:58:51 <jix> pikhq: isn't top a function returning a int()
21:59:17 <pikhq> <typename T>T foo<typeof(foobar.top())> = 5;
21:59:21 * ehird`_ is suprised nobody asked wtf "return nix_ObjectFromState(state, NIX_NIL);" was
21:59:51 <pikhq> Figs: The template on vector is on the class, not on the *variable*. ;)
22:00:04 <Figs> that's my point.
22:00:23 <Figs> <typename T>T foo<typeof(stack<int> ...
22:00:39 <Figs> <typename T> T foo shouldn't happen like that
22:00:54 <Figs> unless you're doing something else that I'm not thinking of
22:01:21 <Figs> you might get away with it by specializing a function or something, but then you wouldn't be assigning 5
22:01:27 <Figs> and you'd need ()
22:01:52 <Figs> in other news, Malibu is on fire again...
22:06:59 * pikhq declares C++ pure insanity
22:07:12 <pikhq> Seriously: int &foo? WTF?
22:17:53 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:42:06 <pikhq> A reference to foo.
22:42:30 <pikhq> Not a pointer, mind.
22:42:44 <pikhq> void add(int &x){x++;}
22:43:01 <Figs> it's basically the same thing as a pointer, just you can't change what it points to, and it can't be null...
22:43:11 <Figs> (and the syntax is sometimes more prettyful)
22:43:27 <Figs> yay prettyful!
22:43:33 <Figs> butterflies and prettyful flowers.
22:43:55 -!- Figs has quit ("Java user signed off").
22:43:58 * pikhq cuts a chunk out of a penny
22:57:31 * pikhq fashions the penny into a legal-tender blade
22:58:33 <pikhq> If greater than 51% of it is still in one piece, it remains legal tender.
23:41:47 -!- immibis has joined.
23:45:01 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:45:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:12:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:12:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:18:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
00:30:07 -!- ehird`- has joined.
00:30:59 <ehird`-> finally i reign on the os x platform once more
00:32:01 <ehird`-> hey Sgeo, sine server address/port?
00:32:26 <ehird`-> sine qua irc network thing
00:34:48 -!- ehird`- has changed nick to ehird`.
00:36:28 <oerjan> ehird`, now 100% more positive
00:50:03 -!- KajirBot has joined.
00:50:12 <KajirBot> feed, help, kill, ps, q, tell, time
00:50:37 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:55:52 <pikhq> oerjan, you know, Nomic is quite an interesting game. . .
00:56:30 <pikhq> I currently am capable of representing two different Agoran players. . .
00:57:28 <pikhq> One of which is human.
00:57:31 <oerjan> i noticed some messages today to the backup list, which i haven't turned off messages from
00:58:40 <pikhq> I was planning on using Tue for it, but the Registrar asked me to find a different forum.
00:59:19 <pikhq> If I can get the right people in it, the subnomic will itself be an Agoran player.
01:02:35 <oerjan> um, the backup lists are still official forums that every Player has to subscribe to, aren't they? I expect that would be annoying.
01:03:32 <oerjan> to have subnomic traffic there, i mean
01:06:33 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If you think nobody cares, try miss).
01:12:16 -!- calamari has joined.
01:16:33 <pikhq> Thus why the Registrar requested that it be on a different forum.
01:46:58 <ehird`> Nomination for awesomest-regexp ever #1:
01:47:28 <ehird`> It's dirt-simple but so damn useful
01:53:12 <oerjan> um, shouldn't that be [^\\"] ?
01:54:02 <oerjan> or maybe it doesn't matter
01:56:33 <ehird`> since the \\ matches first
01:57:06 <oerjan> but couldn't there be backtracking if the \\. causes the rest to fail?
01:59:01 * pikhq puts all the extant archives of Agora into his mail client.
02:07:33 <ehird`> I wonder if there's a language whose turing-completeness depends on whether it's implemented with static or dynamic scoping
02:35:01 -!- ihope has joined.
02:38:35 <ehird`> INTERESTING STATEMENT THAT WILL SPARK MUCH DEBATE
02:39:52 <oerjan> REFERENCE TO THREE-VOLUME BOOK SERIOUS BY FAMOUS BUT INCOMPREHENSIBLE PHILOSOPHER THAT EXHAUSTED THE ISSUE
02:40:07 <ihope> Three-word reply that is absolutely correct and therefore SHOULD end all debate.
02:40:43 <ihope> Namely, "take the derivative".
02:41:13 <ihope> Request for a formal definition.
02:41:50 <ehird`> we seem to enjoy having metadiscussions.
02:42:00 <ehird`> anyway, this apple keyboard was designed by Apple programmers
02:42:08 <graue> a three-volume book series by a famous but incomprehensible philosopher exhausted that issue
02:42:13 <ehird`> I know this because |\ is a huge key, almost as big as backspace
02:42:16 <graue> the metadiscussion issue
02:42:19 <ehird`> right under backspace and above return
02:42:20 <oerjan> i never m*hit by anvil*
02:42:38 <ehird`> i never metanvil that didn't hit itself
02:47:57 * oerjan fails to find a better link than http://www.verboso.com/misspell/Face_of_an_anvil.html
02:54:37 -!- ehird` has quit.
02:57:58 <pikhq> Create a proposal which makes the debate end!
03:00:28 -!- anvil_ has joined.
03:18:33 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:23:12 -!- anvil_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:38:41 -!- immibis has joined.
03:44:19 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!.
03:44:30 -!- immibis has set topic: Topic is: Topic is: Topic is: Topic is: Topic is: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!.
03:45:49 <pikhq> Tell him yourself, Alex.
03:45:55 <pikhq> Oh, he's not here.
03:46:16 <pikhq> Anyways: he proved a certain Turing machine Turing complete. I don't remember all the details.
03:46:27 <pikhq> Except that it's the most minimal language that's Turing complete.
03:46:44 <graue> that sounds awesome
03:47:29 <immibis> it was in the original topic before i changed it.
03:47:39 <immibis> what's the wolfram research prize anyway?
03:47:49 <immibis> [16:46] <pikhq> Tell him yourself, Alex. <-- please explain how you know my name
03:48:00 <oerjan> http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html
03:48:18 <pikhq> I do, however, know that ais523 is Alex Smith.
03:48:32 <pikhq> *Now* I do, yes. :)
03:48:44 <pikhq> I also know oerjan's name.
03:48:54 <oerjan> wait a minute, we cannot have two people with the _same_ name here in this channel.
03:49:01 <pikhq> Alex is quite common.
03:49:11 <pikhq> It'd be a bit more unusual to have two Oerjans here.
03:49:17 <pikhq> (or even two Oerjan Johansens.)
03:50:26 <oerjan> although others do apparently exist
03:52:25 <oerjan> since Johansen is a very common surname in Norway, that is to be expected.
03:53:17 <pikhq> And Oerjan seems a somewhat common first name in Norway.
04:00:03 <oerjan> 3511 rjan, 53353 Johansen, 42 both
04:00:39 <bsmntbombdood> where did you find a list of all people in norway?
04:00:55 <oerjan> http://www.ssb.no/navn/
04:02:02 <oerjan> these are just statistics
04:09:44 <oerjan> Johansen is no. 2 on the list
04:14:19 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Oops. My brain just hit a bad secto).
04:37:40 <pikhq> I'll show *you* a bad sector.
04:46:28 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:50:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:34:50 <graue> oerjan: geez, how are we going to keep you straight when there are 41 others?
05:35:26 <pikhq> He's the one with a Ph.D.
05:42:23 -!- hurtful has joined.
05:42:30 * pikhq just lost the game
05:43:40 <oerjan> pikhq: it does seem you are right, at least as far as i can find on the internet. however, there is one Pl-rjan Johansen who is finishing one in psychology
05:44:01 <pikhq> Not quite the same, though.
05:44:28 <pikhq> This would mean that you have been published in one of the AMS's journals. . .
05:44:35 <pikhq> Which, quite frankly, kicks ass.
05:45:04 <pikhq> hurtful: Once upon a time, Gregor made a programming language named IRP. Everyone has hated him since. The end.
05:45:15 <oerjan> ah, the short version.
05:45:52 <oerjan> Once upon a time there was a beautiful country named Esoteria
05:46:58 <hurtful> what happened in esoteria?
05:46:59 <oerjan> The weather was always nice, and everyone was happy. Except for one person, Gregor R(ex).
05:47:40 <pikhq> hurtful: 昔々、グレゴーさんはIRPのプログラムの語をつくった。みんあはかれが大嫌いだった。
05:48:04 <oerjan> He was a pessimist by nature, and he said: "How could my kingdom possibly last like this? All kingdoms end, in revolution or otherwise."
05:49:04 <oerjan> But the king was a clever magician, so he set about to invent a way to preserve his kingdom.
05:50:17 <oerjan> And so he delved into his magical books, until he came upon a tome about Summonings.
05:50:53 <oerjan> There he read about a powerful creature that could grant wishes: The Irp.
05:52:39 <oerjan> And so he set about to perform the ritual. This of course required many esoteric ingredients, the obtaining of which would not always be within the usual moral standards of the kingdom.
05:53:33 <oerjan> But nevertheless, he eventually obtained them, and performed the ritual. And lo and behold, a small green creature appeared.
05:57:03 <oerjan> And he asked the irp for a wish, of course. That his kingdom should always stay as it was right now.
05:58:01 <oerjan> And since then so has been the case, the weather is still always nice and ... except the people are not quite happy.
05:58:26 <oerjan> Because now they cannot get rid of that annoying Irp creature!
05:58:59 * hurtful did a little experiment on the people in this channel just now
05:59:50 <oerjan> And the king is so ashamed that he would like to flee the country but he, like everything else in it, has to stay there like he is, forever.
06:01:46 <oerjan> And so they lived frustratingly ever after.
06:07:01 * hurtful waits for someone to ask what the experiment is
06:07:46 * oerjan assumed it was the "please tell a story" thing
06:08:55 <hurtful> "will people in this channel notice that i am...."
06:08:57 -!- hurtful has changed nick to immibis.
06:10:32 <oerjan> that's embarrasing, as the join message tells it plain as day
06:11:25 <oerjan> not speling, that's for sure
06:12:34 <immibis> theere r, many!!!!! speling gammatical eras and mistaks in santance dis.
06:12:59 <oerjan> mathematics, Cantor dynamical systems
06:16:48 <bsmntbombdood> Bratteli–Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems: applications to Toeplitz flows
06:17:48 -!- immibis has quit ("Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.").
06:17:56 -!- immibis has joined.
06:31:28 <oerjan> Bratteli-Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems: applications to Toeplitz flows
06:55:24 <bsmntbombdood> what's a Bratteli-Vershik models for a Cantor minimal system, and what's a Toeplitz flow, and how does it apply to it?
07:03:14 <oerjan> a Bratteli-Vershik model is a kind of infinite graph
07:04:32 <oerjan> the infinite paths in it can be considered a Cantor set, and there is an ordering on the edges that allow you to define a mapping from one infinite path to another.
07:06:06 <oerjan> with certain restrictions this gives you a continuous invertible function from the Cantor set to itself, such that the iterated orbit of every infinite path is a dense subset of the Cantor set
07:06:32 * immibis has made a rubicon program that counts the number of times the user presses 'P'
07:07:34 <oerjan> it turns out that every such function from any Cantor set to itself can be modelled on an infinite graph this way
07:07:56 <oerjan> (these are the Cantor minimal systems)
07:08:50 <oerjan> Toeplitz flows are a class of such systems, which we investigated models for
07:09:34 <oerjan> absent further evidence, i shall assume your heads have all exploded already :D
07:10:59 <immibis> how can you be typing without a head and therefore a brain?
07:20:02 <oerjan> must have been his last dying cramps
07:55:15 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:02:25 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Don't push the red button!").
08:12:00 -!- calamari has joined.
08:13:04 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:29:46 -!- calamari has joined.
09:06:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:09:16 -!- jix has joined.
09:17:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
09:22:01 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
09:29:35 -!- RedDak has joined.
10:23:07 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
11:05:13 -!- sebbu has quit ("ping timeout").
11:30:36 -!- sebbu has joined.
12:58:03 -!- ImmortalFire has joined.
12:59:24 -!- ImmortalFire has left (?).
13:03:18 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:17:35 <oklopol> i think a language whose behavior changed according to the number of function calls done would be brilliant, you'd just have to make the effect of the number on the actions deterministic
13:18:13 <oklopol> and do something really clever to allow the programmer to circumvent the semantics change so that the effects cancel out or smth
13:22:48 <oklopol> foo = 3/*bar;/*comment or division by deref?*/ <<< C has greedy tokenization
13:57:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:58:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
14:25:50 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
14:25:58 -!- jix has joined.
14:41:25 -!- Slereah has joined.
15:07:04 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:28:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:48:20 -!- ehird` has quit.
15:51:38 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:53:38 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit).
15:54:02 -!- ehird` has joined.
15:57:41 -!- anvil_ has joined.
17:04:55 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:10:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:11:17 -!- puzzlet has joined.
17:17:09 -!- asiekierka has joined.
17:19:03 -!- anvil_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:51:25 -!- Slereah has joined.
18:03:38 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:20:31 -!- calamari has joined.
19:12:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:13:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:14:13 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:16:29 -!- Sabskm has joined.
19:20:28 -!- asiekierka has quit.
19:23:43 <Sabskm> And nothing of value was lost.
19:25:55 <oerjan> 'This has been a performance of Michael Palin's piece "The machine that goes 'Ping'"'
19:26:24 <Sabskm> Now, let's do the most expensive machine in the whole hospital!
19:27:20 <ehird`> 'This is a performance of Goedel's peice "Self-referentiality"'
19:28:21 <Sabskm> I have too much hair to play the part of Gdel.
19:30:12 <oerjan> just make a ponytail and hide it in your sweater.
19:31:08 <Sabskm> I already have a ponytail.
19:31:22 <Sabskm> Also, do ghosts ever leave this server?
19:31:29 <oerjan> then you are nearly all set, then
19:31:36 <Sabskm> It's been now 15 minutes.
19:31:40 <ehird`> Sabskm: /msg nickserv ghost nick pass
19:31:43 <ehird`> you have to manually do it
19:32:03 -!- Slereah has quit (Nick collision from services.).
19:32:07 -!- Sabskm has changed nick to Slereah.
20:03:22 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
20:04:01 -!- Sabskm has joined.
20:04:13 -!- AnMaster has joined.
20:05:56 -!- ihope_ has joined.
20:06:28 <ihope_> I want an esolang that looks like incoherent speech.
20:06:42 -!- Slereah has quit (Nick collision from services.).
20:06:45 -!- Sabskm has changed nick to Slereah.
20:06:55 <Slereah> Aren't most esolang like this?
20:06:57 <ihope_> "Why if you you and I'm gonna but well just you wait and oughta for nothing job!"
20:07:25 <ihope_> +++[>+[-]<] looks like incoherent speech?
20:08:01 <Slereah> Well, if you replaced the symbols by syllables, probably!
20:08:28 <pikhq> Looks quite coherent.
20:08:33 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal").
20:08:55 <pikhq> Although I must wonder why the infinite loop that is essentially equivalent to >[-]<+[]. . .
20:11:42 -!- ihope has joined.
20:12:48 <ihope> It's not equivalent to >[-]<[-]?
20:15:36 <ihope> I'm not good with remembering things I wasn't around to hear.
20:29:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:29:23 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:00:25 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out).
21:01:10 -!- AnMaster has joined.
22:33:11 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
00:25:26 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:34:03 -!- ehird` has quit.
00:52:05 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
01:05:09 -!- anvil_ has joined.
01:05:12 <anvil_> This nick doesn't make any sense.
01:05:17 -!- anvil_ has changed nick to ihope_.
01:08:05 <oerjan> No the make sense of nick is.
01:09:05 <oerjan> Belong to the order is of the essence.
01:09:30 <ihope_> Belong to the order is I do not want.
01:09:40 <ihope_> Not please of making me.
01:10:27 <oerjan> We aim to please. You aim too, please.
01:11:00 <oerjan> Return back topic: "Order of urinal"
01:12:05 <oerjan> u r in a lot of trouble...
01:13:34 <ihope_> Surprised is that on me.
01:14:37 <oerjan> If whenever in of toward beside.
01:15:00 <ihope_> Not is the sense of you.
01:16:38 <oerjan> Error: Grammatical spaghetti detected. Please rewind.
01:17:59 * ihope_ spins clockwise at about 20Hz
01:19:27 * oerjan watches spaghetti fly to all sides. The tomato sauce causes irrepairable damage.
01:21:31 <oerjan> @go "monad tutorials considered harmful"
01:21:47 * oerjan throws an axe after Mr. Wong
01:24:31 <oerjan> Possibly without because whether.
01:40:39 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:06:00 <pikhq> oerjan: I just won in Agora.
02:06:32 <oerjan> and this has been truely confirmed?
02:06:42 <pikhq> I just sent off the message to pull it off.
02:06:56 <pikhq> Sadly, the method I used for it says "without two objections".
02:07:48 <pikhq> If I were more patient, I would've waited a few days before sending off the contest text.
02:08:20 <pikhq> (the text for creating a contest has changed from "is fair to every player" to "without two objections". . . I note that a contest can be private until a contestant joins.)
02:09:07 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:11:41 <oerjan> http://agoranomic.org/
02:24:51 -!- AnMaster has joined.
02:28:22 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:45:34 <pikhq> You mean I can make changes to my DNA?
02:46:13 <oerjan> sure. but the procedure is rather complicated, and the documentation has been lost.
02:46:17 <pikhq> And the rules to change my DNA are in my DNA?
02:46:41 <pikhq> Not the same thing.
02:53:27 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:54:16 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:58:20 -!- cherez has joined.
03:20:15 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
03:58:41 -!- immibis has joined.
03:59:24 -!- immibis has quit (Client Quit).
04:50:49 -!- immibis has joined.
04:51:57 * immibis has made (in Rubicon): a bubble-sort, solutions to several puzzles, a program to square a number, two fibonacci sequence generators.
04:53:58 <immibis> [17:55] <bsmntbombdood> damn i love dc
04:54:07 <immibis> my computer can see the future.
04:54:43 <immibis> two laws-of-physics-change counters.
04:55:01 -!- immibis has changed nick to immibis[A].
05:02:50 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, hey- I made an Applet that functions as an interactive interpreter to Sprocket, a language I made a couple weeks ago: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CogEngine/Sprocket1/
05:03:24 <RodgerTheGreat> It's pretty limited, but I'm well on the way to implementing a more powerful newer revision of the language
05:21:08 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
05:41:44 -!- immibis[A] has changed nick to immibis.
05:41:44 * immibis is no longer away : Gone for X minutes and Y seconds
05:42:33 * immibis is currently working on a divider in rubicon.
05:57:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffeeeee").
06:03:28 <Slereah> I assume this one : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/success.png
06:03:53 <immibis> oh that xkcd http://xkcd.com/
06:04:58 <Slereah> Stranded in the water full of sharks?
06:05:16 <Slereah> Not me, but I had similar experience.
06:05:41 <Slereah> Like that friend who told me that with Linux, I might be able to retrieve some data from a broken HD!
06:05:54 <immibis> division (only works when the result is a whole number): http://kevan.org/rubicon/game.php?level=hikyzon
06:07:25 <Slereah> A reference to the game of the same name.
06:20:15 <immibis> "On May 14, 2007, Wolfram announced a $25,000 prize[1] to be won by the first person to prove or disprove the universality of a (2,3) Turing machine. On 24 October 2007, it was announced that Alex Smith, a student in electronics and computing at the University of Birmingham (UK), had won this prize.[2]."
07:14:37 <immibis> all programs i have made in rubicon: http://www.stardrifter.org/rubisearch/?title=&designer=immibis&type=other&difficulty=&follows=
07:33:00 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
07:45:30 <immibis> this text is not invisible but it would be if mode +c was off.
07:48:48 <EgoBot> 1 ais523: daemon ul bf
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:05:56 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Never put off till tomorrow, what y).
08:23:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:23:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
11:43:39 -!- ihope_ has joined.
12:39:02 -!- ihope_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:03 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:04 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:04 -!- Possum has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:04 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:04 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:05 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:05 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:05 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:05 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:05 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:06 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:06 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:06 -!- helios24_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:07 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:08 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:08 -!- cherez has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:09 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:09 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:39:44 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:39:44 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
12:39:44 -!- cherez has joined.
12:39:44 -!- AnMaster has joined.
12:39:44 -!- ihope has joined.
12:39:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
12:39:44 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:39:44 -!- dbc has joined.
12:39:44 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
12:39:44 -!- Overand has joined.
12:39:44 -!- helios24_ has joined.
12:39:44 -!- SimonRC has joined.
12:39:44 -!- johnk_ has joined.
12:39:44 -!- fizzie has joined.
12:39:44 -!- GregorR has joined.
12:39:44 -!- zuzu has joined.
12:39:44 -!- mtve has joined.
12:39:56 -!- ihope_ has joined.
12:39:58 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:39:58 -!- Possum has joined.
12:39:58 -!- cmeme has joined.
12:39:58 -!- sekhmet has joined.
13:03:17 -!- Sgeo has joined.
13:05:03 -!- sebbu has joined.
13:10:23 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:23 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:23 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:23 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:23 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:23 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:10:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
13:11:22 -!- oklopol has joined.
13:11:22 -!- dbc has joined.
13:11:22 -!- Overand has joined.
13:11:22 -!- SimonRC has joined.
13:11:22 -!- GregorR has joined.
13:11:22 -!- zuzu has joined.
13:19:15 <Sgeo> Go team netsplit!
13:42:05 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:42:21 -!- ais523 has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!.
14:13:00 <ais523> RodgerTheGreat: what are you referring to?
14:13:13 <RodgerTheGreat> "Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!"
14:13:16 <ais523> if it's the topic, it's serious
14:13:22 <ais523> and it's been there for a while: check the logs
14:14:28 <ais523> put it in the bank, mostly
14:14:43 <ais523> I've spent some of it, though only a small proportion
14:16:59 <RodgerTheGreat> man, it's just really odd that someone I kinda know was involved in that- the internet has created a small, small world
14:17:19 <ais523> the esolangs knowledge was pretty relevant
14:17:40 <ais523> and besides, it was from #esoteric on freenode that I found out about the prize in the first place, so it all comes round in a circle eventually
14:23:03 <RodgerTheGreat> "when malbolge looks you in the eye, grin madly back I say"
14:24:16 <ais523> just a list of language names would be enough to confuse many people
14:24:26 <ais523> especially if some of the more oddly-named languages were included
14:24:52 <RodgerTheGreat> and you could have little boxes next to them that people could check for the languages they conquer
14:25:51 <ais523> I still want to write that nontrivial infinite loop in ///
14:26:02 <ais523> I'm pretty sure it's possible, but every attempt I've made to do it has failed
14:27:39 <RodgerTheGreat> I very nearly completed some logic gates that can be linked together arbitrarily, but that can only build a FSM, at best
14:27:58 <RodgerTheGreat> (and resetting the gates after they've triggered is a huge mess)
14:28:55 <RodgerTheGreat> I have a very strong gut instinct that /// could be TC, but we have a long way to go
14:29:41 <ais523> I was trying to do it using the Muriel method
14:29:56 <ais523> after all, it's not ridiculously hard to write the substitutions needed to quote something
14:30:08 <ais523> it's just hard to cause them to each happen exactly once
14:30:19 <ais523> i.e. once on each character that needs quoting
14:31:24 <ais523> or maybe just /d/s/ as we're talking about ///
14:33:27 <RodgerTheGreat> good lord this is horrifying: http://web.archive.org/web/20020705102824/demo.raww.net/muriel/bub.txt
14:35:01 <ais523> isn't that how Muriel was proven TC in the first place
14:36:40 <ais523> wow, that's pretty unreadable
14:36:41 <RodgerTheGreat> bub is an odd variant of BF, so if you can interpreter bub you are TC by the... transitive property of turing-completeness? :)
14:37:07 <ais523> 'can interpret' is transitive
14:37:29 <ais523> what you do is interpret a Brainfuck interpreter written in Bub
14:40:38 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. /// highly resembles an Deterministic Finite State Automaton.
14:42:24 -!- zuzu has quit ("Lost terminal").
14:43:17 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:43:21 -!- puzzlet has joined.
14:43:37 <RodgerTheGreat> I figure you could do something resembling "and" operations by having a string like x1x2x3x4, then substituting x1 for another symbol, like T1, and so on, and then ultimately doing a replacement looking for T1T2T3T4
14:44:27 <ais523> I haven't really got as far as any actual calculation, just trying to create a loop
14:44:56 <ais523> it helps a lot if you just use / and \ for characters in terms of trying to automatically do escaping
14:45:28 <RodgerTheGreat> loops are very important, I've just been focusing on constructing math and logic. It's pretty tricky to do in a modular fashion
14:45:32 <ais523> you can use strings like ////\//// (which can't appear legally anywhere in parts of a /// program that actually get executed) as delimiters
14:49:35 <RodgerTheGreat> well, I'll be back later- can't skip Computer Organization!
15:12:35 <bsmntbombdood> watch out, he's going to fuck your husband and kill you
15:42:48 -!- ais523 has quit.
16:14:53 -!- jix has joined.
16:18:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:18:30 -!- puzzlet has joined.
16:22:42 -!- ehird` has joined.
16:22:55 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
16:23:20 -!- jix has joined.
17:40:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:42:31 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:17:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:18:00 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:18:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:23:01 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:29:44 -!- clayrat has joined.
18:49:53 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
20:02:32 <ehird`> I am going to write a Lisp interpreter in Glass or Underload.
20:02:37 <ehird`> Discuss. And suggest which.
20:05:37 <ehird`> GregorR: why is glass' only implementation an irc bot written in c++
20:06:28 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:21:43 <ehird`> !glass {L[+(_a)A!a.?]}{M[m(_l)L!<2><2>(_o)+.?]}
20:37:02 <GregorR> ehird`: That's inaccurate.
20:37:17 <ehird`> Is my code right, btw?
20:37:32 <jix> hah i wrote really cool glass stuff
20:37:43 <GregorR> ehird`: Not perhaps, most certainly. The Glass interpreter is a standalone program, like all of the interpreters EgoBot uses.
20:37:48 <jix> stuff like sqrt and i think exp() etc
20:37:57 <GregorR> jix: I do believe it's still in there.
20:38:10 <ehird`> GregorR: Nuh uh. You have loads of "#ifdef IRC" crap in there
20:38:39 <GregorR> ehird`: I slightly adjusted the Glass interpreter for IRC use, yes. But the version in the IRC bot is a branch, not the original.
20:39:11 <ehird`> That's a new concept to me
20:39:22 <jix> reading is overrated
20:39:39 <jix> hmm overrated would be a cool name for an esolang
20:39:55 <GregorR> Eh, I think you may be overrating that name choice.
20:40:03 <jix> but the only thing i can think of would be another useless language
20:40:36 <GregorR> jix: That'd be perfect, because then it would be overrated :P
20:41:11 <ehird`> POLL: In my other lisp (Python, called Foonab, quite esoteric), make a string a list of characters, instead of an internal vector of characters
20:41:12 <jix> ok here is the spec "The authors decided to release no specs because they think specs are overrated anyway"
20:41:18 <ehird`> that's quite silly, so sounds good to me? :P
20:41:45 <jix> bsmntbombdood: it doesn't
20:42:07 <jix> it makes you moving your legs and everything like insane and you talk without breathing etc etc....
20:42:11 <bsmntbombdood> so when i do, i'm all nervous and jittery for the rest of the day
20:42:42 <jix> uh and then when you are really tired but haven't gone to bed because of all the caffeine you get a really bad headache
20:43:14 <jix> i think caffeine is great
20:43:54 <ihope> As far as I can tell, caffeine does nothing to me.
20:45:00 <jix> bsmntbombdood: me? coffeine?
20:45:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:45:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
20:47:21 <ihope> I have the occasional pop; that does nothing noticeable.
20:47:58 <ehird`> the LITHP language, version 1:
20:48:42 <ehird`> t conth 'hello t litht 1 2 3 hh
20:48:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:49:09 <ihope> A caffeine pill that contains "about as much as a cup of coffee" doesn't seem to do anything either.
20:49:50 <jix> they are funny if you don't know that there is so much caffeine in there
20:49:59 <jix> but you start to get _very_ annoying
20:51:03 <ihope> If you're not aware of the amount of caffeine, you end up doing things that annoy others and not noticing as much?
21:02:59 <jix> ihope: exactly
21:03:39 <jix> well i can do that without coffeine too.... but coffeine helps
21:18:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:18:09 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:18:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:20:37 <ihope> Perhaps I should avoid caffeine for others' sake, then.
21:22:23 <bsmntbombdood> if i'm aware, i compensate and the effects can't be seen by others
21:23:10 -!- puzzlet has joined.
21:31:16 <bsmntbombdood> he said to brew black tea he steeps it for 15 minutes, throws out the tea, and steeps for 15 minutes again
21:32:46 <clayrat> what i do i simply use not boiling water on green tea
21:33:16 <clayrat> since too hot makes it bitter and upsets tomach
21:34:03 <clayrat> one guy taught me to fry the tea
21:35:01 <clayrat> you take a fistful of rice, put it in water for 20 min, then fry it on the pan until it gets brown and cracke
21:35:31 <clayrat> then you throw some green tea on the pan and fry it just for several seconds until it starts to smell sweety-spicy
21:35:41 <clayrat> then you just brew the stuff
21:36:11 <clayrat> it takes on pinky flavour and tastes of rice, quite nice
21:41:22 <jix> whoops it's the german word for caffeine koffein .... mixed that
22:16:21 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:16:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:42:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:42:24 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:00:23 -!- Slereah has joined.
23:03:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:11:46 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:22:31 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
23:22:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:33:33 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:33:37 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:01:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:01:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
00:46:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:46:53 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:59:22 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
01:01:26 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
01:10:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:10:23 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
01:11:20 -!- ehird` has quit.
02:49:40 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:49:41 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:55:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:55:19 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:59:59 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:36:17 -!- immibis has joined.
03:43:51 -!- calamari has joined.
04:48:56 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal").
05:05:38 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:16:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:25:15 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
05:28:28 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:28:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
05:28:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:28:56 * immibis wonders what's up with puzzlet's client
05:30:01 <oerjan> it's very very shy, you have to pet it carefully
05:55:58 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
06:02:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee or no coffee, that is the question").
06:11:57 -!- puzzlet has joined.
06:11:58 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:14:52 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
07:00:58 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
07:00:59 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:05:03 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b).
08:50:03 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:50:05 -!- puzzlet has joined.
09:59:37 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
10:09:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
11:08:29 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:08:31 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined.
11:56:17 -!- Sgeo has joined.
12:06:49 -!- jix has joined.
12:24:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:24:52 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:25:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:29:53 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:33:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:38:54 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:42:45 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:42:50 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
12:43:14 -!- jix has joined.
12:48:57 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:50:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
12:51:02 -!- puzzlet has joined.
12:52:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:26:07 -!- oerjan has joined.
13:32:48 -!- faxathisia has joined.
13:39:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
14:07:22 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
14:18:10 -!- nickwebcoukok has joined.
14:29:13 -!- nickwebcoukok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:44:55 -!- ehird` has joined.
14:45:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:45:12 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:01:11 -!- ais523 has joined.
15:37:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:39:50 <oerjan> rjct yr vwl-cntrd wrld-vw nd prps cnsnnt ltrntv
15:43:18 -!- ololobot has joined.
15:47:50 <oklopol> >>> rt rjct yr vwl-cntrd wrld-vw nd prps cnsnnt ltrntv
15:47:51 <ololobot> ewpg le ijy-pageq jeyq-ij aq cecf pafaag ygeagi
15:47:56 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:48:19 <oklopol> I WASTE 7 MINUTES OF MY LIFE FOR THAT AND IT'S NOT ROT-13!!
15:48:25 -!- faxathisia has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:49:10 -!- faxathisia has joined.
15:49:18 <oklopol> hmm... stop that or i'll learn rot-13 :
15:50:20 <oklopol> rot-13 just does chars right?
15:52:30 <oklopol> you do that manually, right?
15:53:02 <oklopol> >>> rt abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
15:53:14 <oerjan> although looking at the letters already on the page
15:53:24 <oerjan> furrfu is an old classic though
15:54:16 <oklopol> i now realize i already have memorized the rot-13 table
16:11:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
16:11:53 <ololobot> These are all the cmds currently in ololobot:
16:11:54 <ololobot> bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch, choose, rt, d, o, x, k, i, s, factors, in-pr, in-po, in-fi
16:12:08 <ehird`> >>> in-fi WHAT IS THIS
16:12:52 <ehird`> >>> in-fi WHAT IS IN-FI
16:13:36 <faxathisia> >>> factors 557940830126698960967415390
16:14:34 <oerjan> >>> in-fi WHAT IS IN-FI
16:16:26 <oerjan> [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71]
16:16:46 <ehird`> oklopol, ololobot crash'd
16:17:58 <ehird`> >>> sch (define x y z)
16:18:35 <oklopol> the thing that is defined, and what it's defined to be
16:18:57 <oklopol> also, i have no idea whether this is the new version either, but i'll test
16:19:16 <oklopol> seems it is the newer version
16:20:43 <oklopol> that is prolly helpful enough
16:22:42 <oklopol> my attempt to make infix work without explicit parens
16:24:52 <oklopol> lol, lost 50% of my points for doing counting sort the wrong way around <3
16:24:59 <oklopol> i love the automatic checker
16:26:55 <ehird`> finefix is just postfix
16:30:28 <oklopol> but it is the postfix way to handle parenthesis expansion
16:45:19 * oklopol has developed a rot-13 paranoia
16:45:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
16:46:20 <RodgerTheGreat> rt rjct yr vwl-cntrd wrld-vw nd prps cnsnnt ltrntv <- isn't this just saying to reject your vowel centered world-view?
16:46:52 <RodgerTheGreat> bsmntbombdood: I religiously rot26 everything I post on the internet
16:47:03 <oerjan> that would be one interpretation
16:47:14 <bsmntbombdood> sh: i reject your vowel centered world-view and replace it with my own: command not found
16:50:11 <oklopol> >>> i ololobot does rot-26
16:50:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
16:54:11 <oerjan> avid card players prefer rot-52
17:00:01 <ehird`> Io is such a great language
17:00:57 <oerjan> the older one is pretty esoteric
17:01:13 <ehird`> the older one is, indeed
17:01:37 <ehird`> the new one is pretty pure semantics and syntax-wise and generally useful too, though
17:02:06 <ehird`> nice to use for general stuff too
17:02:27 * oerjan gets the idea of "an implementation of Io in Io"
17:02:42 <ehird`> oerjan: Io1 in Io2 (or vise-versa)? :-)
17:02:53 <ehird`> the problem with Io is the documentation of the Socket class
17:02:55 <ehird`> that is, there is none
17:03:00 <ehird`> still, the names are pretty descriptive
17:03:04 <ehird`> oerjan: that would be... difficult
17:03:33 <ehird`> oh yeah, Io is bloody hard to google too
17:03:42 <ehird`> 'io language' usually does the trick though
17:03:53 <oerjan> i don't know the finer points of either (and really nothing about Io2 other than being OO)
17:05:56 <ehird`> oerjan: Io2 is actually very nice
17:05:59 <ehird`> oerjan: e.g., 0 keywords
17:06:15 <ehird`> similar to smalltalk, but prototype-based and simpler to understand
17:06:34 <ehird`> http://www.iolanguage.com/about/samplecode/ has a few examples
17:23:56 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
17:28:53 <ehird`> my name does not slice very well
17:30:26 <ehird`> i would like to be able to have a good prefix/suffix for my stuff
17:31:07 <oklopol> GregorR solved it quite nicely
17:31:21 <ehird`> (changing nick is not an option -- i suck at making up nicks, and also too many things are under 'ehird' to change them all)
17:32:34 <oklopol> heh, i chose my nick in about 2 minutes, and i've had it for about 2 years
17:33:02 <oklopol> i do happen to like this nick, but i'm pretty certain i'd've kept it even if i'd chosen something really gay
17:33:15 <ehird`> what, like RavingHomosexual?
17:33:31 <oklopol> yes, that was my choise #2
17:50:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:52:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:56:54 -!- Slereah has joined.
17:58:16 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:07:43 <faxathisia> Here are all the predecessors of the glider I can find http://rafb.net/p/n7NVdc43.txt :D
18:25:12 -!- jix has joined.
18:59:57 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:02:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:03:16 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:38:12 <ehird`> awesome, RodgerTheGreat
21:41:11 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:53:52 <ehird`> http://www.fogcreek.com/FogBugz/60movie/60movie.html "So...that's what FogBugz lets you do." "Yeah. Make ducks."
22:20:12 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all").
22:47:36 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit.
23:22:21 -!- erat123 has joined.
23:24:28 -!- erat123 has left (?).
00:04:28 <ehird`> "For some reason most people seem to be born without the part of the brain that understands pointers."
00:05:25 <Slereah> In a few million years, when evolutive pressure kills those people, a new era of programming will dawn.
00:07:03 <bsmntbombdood> i don't understand how people don't understand pointers
00:07:42 <pikhq> Sure, it's hard. . . At first. . .
00:07:55 <pikhq> Just do a bit of programming in C, and you figure it out rather quickly.
00:10:13 <ehird`> of co urse everyone here understands pointers and fiunds it impossible to believe that maybe others don't
00:10:31 <ehird`> but it's true -- there really are people who can do everything but pointers, they just don't get them at all and never will
00:24:25 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:30:22 -!- puzzlet__ has joined.
00:36:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:44:36 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out).
00:47:13 <ihope> I understand pointers AND monads! Muahaha...
00:47:24 -!- ehird` has quit.
00:47:28 <Slereah> Monads, a 0 dimensional object?
00:47:39 <ihope> Monads, the category theory thingy.
00:47:52 <Slereah> I don't know any category theory
00:47:57 <ihope> Since monads are from category theory and I understand monads, I really should study category theory, eh?
00:48:29 <Slereah> Well, I understand the Holocaust, that doesn't mean I should do it!
00:50:01 <ihope> Also, I'm suddenly grinning: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arimaa/Overview
00:50:19 <ihope> "Arimaa is a two-player board game invented by Omar Syed, a computer engineer trained in artificial intelligence. Syed was inspired by Garry Kasparov's defeat at the hands of the chess computer Deep Blue to design a new game which would be difficult for computers to play well, but would have rules simple enough for his four-year-old son Aamir to understand"
00:52:20 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
00:52:30 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:58:25 <ihope> It seems to me that the shorter something is made, the easier it is for me to understand it. Maybe that's just because long things bore me.
01:00:44 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:00:51 <ihope> I'd love a description of category theory such as this: "An A is a set of Bs and Cs following certain axioms. A C has a D and an E, which are both Bs. The axioms: if you have two Cs x and y such that x's E is y's D, then there is a C z such that z's D is x's D and z's E is y's E; and for every B x, there is a C whose D and E are both x."
01:05:46 <ihope> There, a few quick questions and a bit of prior knowledge and now I know category theory.
01:07:21 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
01:07:27 <bsmntbombdood> are there any pathfinding algorithms like A* that take a heuristic that always over-estimates?
01:08:14 <faxathisia> bsmntbombdood: I think that A* should work if the heuristic always overestimates by like a constant scale factor
01:09:04 <bsmntbombdood> sure, because you can just divide by the factor...
02:06:01 -!- calamari has joined.
03:29:52 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:35:10 -!- immibis has joined.
04:08:54 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
04:34:58 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
04:40:35 -!- oerjan has joined.
04:57:19 <oerjan> ihope: you could certainly define a _category_ like that, problem is that category theory theory consists of a _lot_ of definitions on top of that. however at least at the beginning most of them are similarly simple.
04:57:52 <pikhq> ihope, you are now being pwned by the Mathematician.
04:58:53 <oerjan> now now, when i say "at least at the beginning" that more or less means "as far as i go to". the parts of category theory other fields tend to use rarely go beyond the basics.
04:59:51 <oerjan> the Mathematician should have been a Tarot card, although i like the Magician too...
05:00:12 <pikhq> I can do the Magician.
05:00:17 * pikhq plays Magic: The Gathering. ;)
05:00:20 <oerjan> "Tarot just got a _lot_ more sinister..."
05:00:51 * pikhq plays Shatterstorm. All artifact cards are destroyed. I consider tarot cards artifacts. :p
05:01:30 <oerjan> _ancient_ artifacts, mind you.
05:01:46 <pikhq> Shatterstorm doesn't care about the age. :)
05:01:53 <oerjan> or at least late middle age or so
05:10:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:56:41 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee").
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:17:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
08:33:58 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
08:38:06 -!- ololobot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:07 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:07 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:07 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:07 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:07 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:08 -!- Slereah has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:12 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:12 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:12 -!- Possum has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:13 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:13 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:13 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:13 -!- helios24_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:14 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:14 -!- faxathisia has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:14 -!- cherez has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:14 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:14 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:38:14 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
08:44:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
08:44:11 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:44:11 -!- Slereah has joined.
08:44:11 -!- faxathisia has joined.
08:44:11 -!- ololobot has joined.
08:44:11 -!- GregorR has joined.
08:44:11 -!- SimonRC has joined.
08:44:11 -!- Overand has joined.
08:44:11 -!- dbc has joined.
08:44:11 -!- oklopol has joined.
08:44:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
08:44:11 -!- sekhmet has joined.
08:44:11 -!- cmeme has joined.
08:44:11 -!- Possum has joined.
08:44:11 -!- cherez has joined.
08:44:11 -!- AnMaster has joined.
08:44:11 -!- ihope has joined.
08:44:11 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
08:44:11 -!- helios24_ has joined.
08:44:11 -!- johnk_ has joined.
08:44:11 -!- fizzie has joined.
08:44:11 -!- mtve has joined.
09:00:29 -!- faxathisia has quit.
09:02:43 -!- encoded|lap has joined.
09:04:12 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
09:04:14 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
09:07:29 -!- encoded|lap has left (?).
09:51:43 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
10:04:50 -!- jix has joined.
10:06:27 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
10:06:35 -!- jix has joined.
10:10:43 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
10:36:50 -!- sebbu has joined.
12:07:09 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:07:50 -!- mtve has quit ("Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5").
12:08:24 -!- mtve has joined.
12:54:55 -!- pikhq has joined.
13:22:45 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:31:29 -!- jix has joined.
13:36:39 -!- oerjan has joined.
13:51:52 -!- ais523 has quit.
14:39:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Excess Flood).
15:29:45 -!- clayrat has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
15:36:05 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:36:09 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:36:39 -!- faxathisia has joined.
16:05:33 -!- ihope_ has joined.
16:09:28 -!- oerjan_ has joined.
16:14:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Nick collision from services.).
16:14:43 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan.
16:53:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
16:56:09 -!- ihope__ has joined.
16:56:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:58:21 -!- Slereah has joined.
16:59:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
17:03:25 -!- RedDak has joined.
17:09:10 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:11:36 -!- ihope___ has joined.
17:11:57 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:12:06 -!- ihope___ has changed nick to ihope_.
17:19:43 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:24:38 -!- ihope__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:57:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:28:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:58:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:08:45 <oklopol> faxathisia: do you have a history of using another nick, or are you relatively new here?
19:09:01 <oklopol> or option 3: something else
19:12:02 <oklopol> i may already have asked, but i don't remember; what's the biggest amount of regulars there have been here
19:12:19 <oklopol> in case someone here remembers
19:12:34 <oklopol> i know at least a few regulars have effectively stopped idling here
19:13:41 <GregorR> I don't think anybody's done a "regular count" :p
19:14:47 <oklopol> no official one prolly, but most people occasionally take a glance at the userlist
19:15:19 <GregorR> Userlist != list of regulars
19:15:27 <oklopol> so... has there like been a time when 100 ppl idled here regularly
19:15:40 <GregorR> Regulars to me = people who talk :P
19:15:55 <oklopol> idling was a more general word here
19:16:24 <oklopol> like a relaxed form of being somewhere
19:18:31 <oklopol> i'll rephrase my question, has the average usercount been over 50 for over a week at some point of this channel's existance
19:23:10 <faxathisia> I mean list all predecessors for a state?
19:23:55 <GregorR> One example: KKKWWTHWKKK -> KKKWWWTHKKK -> KKKWWWWTKKK -> KKKWWWWWKKK
19:24:29 <GregorR> Or, to put it more simply, the next state of KKKWWWWWKKK is KKKWWWWWKKK, but the next state of KKKWWWWTKKK is also KKKWWWWWKKK
19:33:17 <oklopol> you can definately list all the possible predecessors for a state, though
19:34:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:36:17 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:44:21 <GregorR> oklopol: Sure, but that's hardly reversing it :P
19:50:10 <oklopol> no one said anything about reversing!
19:50:17 <oklopol> well, no one said the exact word.
19:50:45 <faxathisia> what can you call listing all possible predecessors?
19:53:15 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: can has taste?
19:59:45 <oklopol> can i taste your juices, is what i'm asking
20:01:58 <bsmntbombdood> how about you visit your local supermarket and get some
20:05:02 <faxathisia> >> unlambda ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:09:00 <oklopol> >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:09:09 <oklopol> >>> ski ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:09:12 <oklopol> >>> sk ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:09:17 <ololobot> These are all the cmds currently in ololobot:
20:09:17 <ololobot> bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch, choose, rt, d, o, x, k, i, s, factors, in-pr, in-po, in-fi
20:09:57 <faxathisia> >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:35:02 <oklopol> >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`k*r``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:35:07 <oklopol> >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`k.r``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk
20:40:22 <oklopol> Nums = "seven" withkey 7,"one" withkey 1,"three" withkey 3
21:25:29 <faxathisia> >>> bf >++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]<+.>++++[<---->-]<..>++++[<++++>-]<.
21:32:06 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:37:19 <oklopol> >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.
21:38:21 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: what are you sorting?
21:43:52 <oklopol> nice, a spontaneous 5 minute lag :)
21:43:58 <oklopol> got ping timeouted in quakenet
21:52:03 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:10:41 -!- ihope___ has joined.
22:10:47 -!- ihope___ has changed nick to ihope_.
22:11:58 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0729moore.html
22:16:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:16:20 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:23:36 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:23:38 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
22:42:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
22:44:12 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:44:13 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:44:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:49:14 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:08:39 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:10:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:11:06 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:23:05 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:25:11 -!- Jontte has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
23:39:24 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
23:49:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:21:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:21:50 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:31:04 -!- pikhq has joined.
01:22:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
01:26:31 -!- faxathisia has quit (Connection reset by peer).
01:45:19 -!- faxathisia has joined.
01:54:00 -!- puzzlet has joined.
01:54:00 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:07:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
02:07:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:04:04 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:05:06 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:14:14 <faxathisia> the way, http://rafb.net/p/j1qfFS49.txt
03:14:32 <faxathisia> I can reverse life using minesweeper.. but I think I shall rewrite it so it runs faster
03:15:24 <oerjan> oh it surely should work in principle, the point about NP-complete problems is that you _can_ reduce them to each other :)
03:15:50 <pikhq> You can. . . Reverse the Game of Life?
03:15:54 <faxathisia> I didn't know that running game of life backwards is NP complete :p
03:15:58 <oerjan> although 1 step of life probably isn't NP-complete
03:16:12 * pikhq hands you a Garden of Eden position.
03:16:16 <pikhq> Reverse it. I dare you.
03:16:35 <oerjan> we are talking about reversing to a set, of course
03:17:37 <faxathisia> I think I should try actually reversing it directly
03:17:42 <faxathisia> instead of this stupid roundabout method :p
03:18:37 <oerjan> constraint solving is the keyword to look for i think
03:19:50 <oerjan> i would not be surprised if running n steps backwards of GOL is NP-complete though
03:20:18 <oerjan> in fact, it almost surely is
03:20:34 <faxathisia> I mean why do you say, n steps specifically?
03:20:55 <oerjan> i mean that you may need to have n on the order of the board size
03:21:18 <oerjan> because 1 step may not intertwine far-away parts
03:21:43 <oerjan> otoh it _might_, if there is a graph problem like 3-coloring encodable in just one step
03:22:06 <oerjan> ok, 1 step may or may not be NP-complete
03:24:23 -!- immibis has joined.
03:47:40 <immibis> the esolangs.org wiki keeps giving me this error: http://pastebin.ca/801283
03:51:51 <oerjan> mind you it has had errors in the past
03:52:46 <immibis> it gives me that error quite often and it always works when i refresh it.
04:34:38 -!- lament has joined.
04:34:48 <lament> oh man, you just reminded me about this channel
04:35:05 <pikhq> It's Lament's Laments!
04:48:10 <graue> if stephen hawking were here he would be laughing his ass off at that play on words
05:01:26 <oerjan> i would say that's a grey view of it
05:19:24 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:25:48 * immibis found two ways to open the root of the C: drive and two ways to get to a command prompt (both of which are disabled) in his school network.
05:26:09 <immibis> i mean, disabled = not supposed to be able to do it
05:29:36 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:31:15 <pikhq> (I've done the same. Not too difficult)
05:38:08 <immibis> shortcuts and batch files have something to do with it. i won't tell you the rest in case you know people who go to that school.
05:45:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:46:43 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:46:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:51:47 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:55:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee (and brownie?)").
06:08:27 -!- faxathisia has quit.
06:11:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
06:11:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
07:49:22 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Clap on! , Clap off! Clap@#&$NO CAR).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:11:06 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:21:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
09:37:53 -!- jix has joined.
09:44:49 -!- clayrat has joined.
10:10:16 -!- Jontte has joined.
10:14:52 -!- Jontte has quit (Client Quit).
13:04:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
13:20:53 -!- tola has joined.
13:21:10 -!- tola has left (?).
13:23:56 -!- Sgeo has joined.
13:32:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
14:10:04 -!- maristo has joined.
14:10:18 -!- maristo has left (?).
14:12:32 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p354454544.txt making a language for programming labyrinth explorers, i guess
14:13:19 <oklopol> made pattern matching first-class, as demonstrated in that code (creation of an Idle pattern inside Enter)
14:14:27 <oklopol> once again i've polluted the language with so much syntax and "intelligence", i'll prolly not manage to implement it.
14:16:09 <oklopol> the program running the labyrinth explorers should send an Idle message at least a few times a second, enter should be sent after a move, and so on
14:17:04 <oklopol> if a (Move Direction)-pattern is returned, the guy should be moved to given direction
14:21:46 <clayrat> so its like the guy moves according to language restrictions and the programmer supplies the maze?
14:24:12 <oklopol> well, the language has nothing to do with labyrinths, it's just made for creating AI's for exploring labyrinths
14:24:58 <oklopol> if Move [1 0] is returned, the guy will move east, but that is just convention
14:25:25 <oklopol> the labyrinth is external to the labyrinth, and will be supplied in a different program
14:27:16 <oklopol> basically, a guy will get messages like [Enter [room coords]] and [Idle 5.09], and may return a message like [Move [0 -1]] or [Commit Suicide]
14:28:05 -!- RedDak has joined.
14:29:40 <oklopol> a guy would prolly not be told he's been eaten, since being eaten is lethal, though
14:29:54 <oklopol> that though was a bit out of place
14:30:23 <oklopol> (a guy would prolly not be told he's been eaten, since being eaten is lethal), though
14:30:43 <oklopol> hmm... that doesn't work either...
14:30:53 <oerjan> [Enter BrightTunnelOfLight]
14:31:48 <oklopol> so... first-class pattern matching, is that a new idea?
14:32:28 <oklopol> i've been trying to come up with something new for ages, i just always later find out it's already been come up with
14:32:42 <oklopol> i guess that happens to everyone
14:33:56 <oklopol> well, there's only a thin line between that and just having... well, variables
14:34:15 <oklopol> that's a bit like a generalization of 'em
14:34:21 <oerjan> first-class patterns is one of the things some people would like in haskell but which they never agree on the precise syntax and semantics for
14:34:46 <oklopol> i don't just have them first-class, i also have them mutable, btw :)
14:34:56 <oklopol> as you can *clearly* see in the code
14:35:03 <oerjan> well haskell usually does not do that :)
14:35:12 <oklopol> yes, that's why i meantioned it
14:35:35 <oklopol> (palindrome not intended.)
14:35:41 <oerjan> views are like definable pattern matching
14:36:06 <oklopol> hmm, interesting, wanna enlighten me about them?
14:36:07 <oerjan> since ordinary haskell only has the patterns that come with each data type definition
14:36:44 <oklopol> and... function definition?
14:37:01 <oerjan> but sometimes you would like to define some pattern matching that is not just the internal data representation
14:37:37 <oerjan> function definitions don't define new pattern types, they only use those already defined
14:38:29 <oerjan> for example the Data.Sequence module defines |> and <| patterns iirc to match only the left or right end of a sequence
14:39:20 <oerjan> but because haskell does not have views you need to apply a function to a Seq to make it into the data type that has the pattern
14:39:41 <oklopol> ah, i now realize what is confusing me is i do not know how to make new patterns in haskell.
14:40:21 <oerjan> in haskell each data type defines new constructors that automatically give both a constructing function and a deconstructing pattern
14:41:12 <oklopol> that's so awesome i wanna cry
14:41:21 <oklopol> not that awesome, but quite.
14:42:38 <oerjan> however if the data structure is abstract and you don't want to expose its _real_ constructors (like with Sequence which is internally a kind of tree), then haskell gives you no way of defining a different set of patterns directly on that data type
14:43:07 <oerjan> so you instead must do something like
14:43:34 <oerjan> case viewl seq of x :< rest -> ...
14:44:43 <oerjan> viewl :: Seq a -> ViewL a
14:45:15 <oerjan> it take a sequence and turns into the ViewL data type for which :< is a constructor
14:46:02 <oerjan> so it's a hack around the fact you cannot define the :< pattern directly on Seq a
14:47:06 <oerjan> there is also viewr and :> for the other end
14:48:49 <oklopol> i'd like to start implementing, but i need to leave in an hour anyway
14:55:34 -!- Jontte has joined.
14:55:50 -!- Jontte has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:14:15 <oklopol> it's relatively nice for an event, it's just i generally dislike events.
15:15:00 <oerjan> um, why are you in a band if you don't like it :D
15:15:48 <oklopol> i like being in a band, and i like practising, i just don't like going to the practise
15:15:54 <oklopol> the same thing with school
15:16:02 <oklopol> except that some classes are very boring
15:17:39 <oklopol> same thing with anything really, i hate going out, would prefer just sitting here
15:18:55 <oklopol> wonder if i could retire when i turn 19...
15:20:30 * oerjan wants to protest but is too lazy himself...
15:21:06 <oklopol> hmm, what exactly do you wanna protest?
15:22:25 <oerjan> your apparent desire to physically isolate yourself
15:24:01 <oklopol> well, actually, i have nothing against going places, what i dislike is having to go somewhere
15:24:57 <oklopol> usually, if someone spontaneously asks me to take a 10 hours walk with them, i say yes
15:25:27 <oklopol> this is not as rare as you might think, given my circle of friends
15:26:22 <oklopol> wonder if "circle of friends" is correct
15:27:15 <oklopol> sounds right to me, but i always get a bit paranoid when i realize a saying is the exact same in Finnish
15:27:30 <oklopol> had to uppercase it because i seem to have a typing checker in this client
15:30:05 <oklopol> also, i think finland has the greatest people-here/overall-population -rate
15:31:00 <oklopol> fiz, me and jontte, who i now realize isn't here anymore
15:32:14 <oerjan> some wicked little voice in my head said "yeah, they all sit in their forest huts drinking and no one ever travels"
15:32:17 <oklopol> a friend of mine has been meaning to start regularing here, but he's too lazy to put the chan on autojoin
15:33:04 <oerjan> (interpreting here=in-finland)
15:33:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:34:22 <oklopol> well, finland definately has the greatest people-in-finland/overall-population-in-finland rate
15:35:11 <oklopol> then again, so does any other country.
15:36:37 <oerjan> i am not so sure, there are some countries that have more immigrants than natives
15:37:13 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
15:37:40 <oklopol> yes, unfortunately those countries still have the same people-in-finland/overall-population-in-finland rate
15:38:30 <oerjan> constant functions are no fun
15:39:20 <oerjan> i interpreted people-in-finland as people from that country in finland
15:40:55 <oklopol> well, out of finland's population, over 50% is finns, so finland's rate would still be the greatest.
15:41:31 <oklopol> english's lambda support is pretty bad :\
15:47:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:16:04 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:53:23 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:53:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:53:37 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
17:54:10 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
18:09:14 -!- oerjan has quit ("No, more madness!").
18:12:34 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
18:31:49 -!- faxathisia has joined.
18:39:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
18:53:30 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:12:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
19:15:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:48:10 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:01:58 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:01:59 -!- puzzlet has joined.
20:11:52 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined.
20:16:06 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:18:37 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:27:20 -!- jix has joined.
20:43:48 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.10/2007111504]").
21:44:10 -!- Jontte has joined.
21:56:42 <sekhmet> ... or does it have an ODOR?
22:00:15 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
22:27:48 <oklopol> one problem with band practise is the other guys don't really have a life outside the band
22:27:59 <oklopol> life as in need to code and irc
22:31:20 <oklopol> (regarding the fact i was gone for well over 6 hours)
22:41:16 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:41:19 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:54:04 -!- ihope_ has joined.
22:55:19 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has joined.
22:57:23 <BoredCollegeGuy> Please find the greatest contiguous sum of the following sequence: -1, 2, -3, 2, 0, 5, -11
22:57:26 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
22:58:43 <ihope_> 2 and 2, 0, 5 are the only "islands" of positive. You can include one or the other, or you can include both. Including just 2, 0 and 5 gives you a higher sum than including both.
23:10:00 <graue> is that general problem NP-complete?
23:10:24 <graue> no wait, i guess there's no way it could be
23:11:06 <faxathisia> if you have a matrix of numbers what's the submatrix with biggest tota
23:12:16 <graue> if you brute-force the one-dimensional version, isn't it O(n^2)?
23:12:59 <graue> no wonder you're a bored college guy, you need a more interesting problem
23:14:08 <faxathisia> http://acm.uva.es/problemset/v1/108.html
23:14:57 <faxathisia> is maximal sub-rectangle NP complete? :(
23:16:08 <BoredCollegeGuy> dunno. I just had my 4th day of theory of comp this morning.
23:16:10 <graue> well, to brute force it, you'd have to try rectangles starting at each of n*m origins
23:17:27 <faxathisia> and I'm wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subset_sum_problem
23:18:24 <graue> wait. but then, from each origin at column a, row b, you have to try rectangles with each of (n-a+1) widths and (m-b+1) heights, so (n-a+1)*(m-b+1) rectangles
23:18:34 <graue> so it's O(n^2m^2), no?
23:28:28 <ihope_> A problem that's in P is in NP if and only if P = NP.
23:59:58 -!- Corun has joined.
00:00:04 -!- CrackBunny has joined.
00:00:19 -!- CrackBunny has left (?).
00:02:09 -!- Corun has changed nick to [.
00:02:16 -!- [ has changed nick to iDGCorun.
00:03:36 -!- iDGCorun has changed nick to IDG_SHIRT.
00:05:28 -!- IDG_SHIRT has changed nick to Corun.
00:05:39 -!- Corun has changed nick to IDG_SHIRT.
00:07:14 -!- IDG_SHIRT has left (?).
00:09:57 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
00:40:56 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
00:49:09 -!- puzzlet__ has joined.
00:51:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:01:43 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out).
01:08:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:37:40 -!- clayrat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:46:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:53:07 -!- Tritonio__ has joined.
01:53:50 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:07:51 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:55:08 -!- AxleLonghorn_ has joined.
02:55:34 -!- AxleLonghorn_ has changed nick to AxleLonghorn.
02:56:14 -!- AxleLonghorn has left (?).
02:56:30 -!- AxleLonghorn has joined.
03:06:31 -!- immibis has joined.
03:14:31 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
03:21:46 -!- AxleLonghorn has left (?).
04:22:41 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:22:43 -!- puzzlet has joined.
04:39:36 -!- faxathisia has quit (Connection reset by peer).
04:41:01 -!- faxathisia has joined.
04:58:29 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:09:04 -!- calamari has joined.
05:10:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
05:10:39 -!- puzzlet has joined.
05:11:50 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A ).
05:17:49 -!- chuck has joined.
05:29:12 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
05:47:36 <Sgeo> What's Epigram?
05:49:01 <faxathisia> It seems to be a programming language where you can have types depend on values
05:49:40 <faxathisia> the code looks cool some examples on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_%28programming_language%29
06:02:43 -!- chuck has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
06:10:02 -!- oerjan has joined.
06:12:16 <oklopol> <graue> is that general problem NP-complete? <<< no
06:12:28 <oklopol> although someone has prolly said that
06:13:42 <faxathisia> but this isn't zero sum, it's maximizing
06:16:54 <oklopol> faxathisia: i think you mean on where any subset can be taken
06:17:21 <oerjan> oklopol: that would be even easier, just take _all_ positives
06:17:22 <oklopol> anything that only cares about continuous sequences can be no
06:17:38 <oklopol> oerjan: for the max, yes, not the zeroing
06:18:18 <oklopol> anyway, the 2d one is np? did someone say that or did i misunderstand something
06:18:24 <oerjan> oh, and of course for maximizing under a bound (knapsack)
06:19:01 <oklopol> oh, he was talking about subset sumzorz
06:19:58 <oklopol> wonder if generalizing that to hypercube sum makes it np
06:20:10 <oklopol> or is hypercube a tesseract?
06:21:29 * oerjan vaguely recalls those are the same thing
06:21:51 <oerjan> or maybe hypercube is for all dimensions
06:21:56 <oklopol> i mean, can hypercube be used for further dimensions as well
06:22:22 <oklopol> i hate it when people steal my thoughts
06:22:25 <oerjan> only one way to find out
06:22:58 <oerjan> only _two ways_ to find out
06:23:11 <oerjan> teh google, teh wikipedia, and teh mathworld
06:23:57 <oerjan> the fourth way is asking the spanish inquisition, which is not recommended
06:24:43 <oklopol> indeed, time travel sometimes leads to catastrophes
06:24:45 <oerjan> anyway it's apparently arbitrary n
06:25:39 <oklopol> hmm, the typing checker doesn't know "tesseract", is that the correct form, now that you have your pedias open
06:25:58 <oklopol> (since you can't possibly just know that...)
06:26:01 <oerjan> but i think that was it
06:26:16 <oerjan> and i did see it but i did not rememorize the spelling :)
06:27:02 <oklopol> i learned the word from watching hypercube in french
06:27:29 <oklopol> i've actually pointer you out a paradox from that movie, although you don't remember it
06:30:18 <oerjan> no one remembers. it's a paradox!
06:30:40 <oerjan> oh and that sub-hypercube thing.
06:30:55 <oerjan> n dimensions, 2^n elements
06:31:26 <oerjan> 3^n sub-hypercubes i think
06:31:43 <oerjan> (for each coordinate, take both, 0 or neither)
06:32:57 <oerjan> 3^(log 2 x) = (3^log 2)^x, still a polynomial number in the original elements
06:33:44 <oerjan> darn i'm not supposed to do _that_ kind of silly mistake :D
06:34:19 <oklopol> why can't you take 1, why just 0?
06:34:34 <oerjan> you cannot take neither
06:34:48 <oerjan> oh right, i'm forgetting to eat breakfast
06:35:54 <oerjan> my brain does not work without food
06:38:22 <oklopol> actually, i think this kind of brain usage is for melvins too
06:38:41 <oklopol> not sure whether it means "geek" or "gay", no real difference in usage
06:41:08 <oerjan> so back to this thing which my intuition tells me _is_ polynomial
06:41:52 <oerjan> 3^(log 2 n) = 2^(log 3*log 2 n) = n^log 3 Q.E.D.
06:42:47 <oerjan> so you can check all sub-hypercubes in n^log 2 3 time
06:43:40 <oklopol> every circle of kiddo buddies comes up with their own set of words, and there are about a quadrillion kids in the us
06:43:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:43:47 <oklopol> i'd be surprised if you'd heard it
06:44:03 * oklopol should memorize urbandictionary
06:44:15 <oerjan> er times some overhead per cube, which is linear
06:44:55 -!- johnk_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:45:23 <oerjan> exercise: pepper your speech with words used differently than most people do. if challenged point to a dictionary
06:45:50 * oerjan now wonders if "pepper" is used in that sense in english
06:47:03 <oerjan> it seems so, at least close to it
06:47:09 <oklopol> now, the 3 there is related to 2
06:47:18 <oklopol> why not generalize for any cube size?
06:47:56 <oerjan> n_1*n_2*...*n_k gives (n_1+1)*...*(n_k+1) subcubes
06:49:09 <oklopol> i'd say it's quadratic growth
06:49:30 <oerjan> hm right if it's to be consecutive
06:49:51 <oklopol> i mean, the number of continuous segments in a list
06:49:53 <oerjan> and multiplying quadratic things are still quadratic
06:50:09 <oklopol> although still too much for me without paper..
06:50:42 <oklopol> hey, don't get colloquial with me! thazz no proof!
06:50:51 <oerjan> because you also multiply the things you start squaring
06:51:09 <oerjan> <= (n_1^2)*...*(n_k^2) subcubes
06:52:53 <oklopol> people at the computer science classes look at me like a geek when i'm reading coding theory xD
06:53:00 <oerjan> i say that's proof enough
06:54:05 <oklopol> why didn't i eat anything... i'm hungry too
06:54:17 <oklopol> i'm gonna go melvin it up ->
06:54:23 <oerjan> because you're pretending to be the anti-melvin :)
06:59:54 <oklopol> it's funny, most of the time when reading math i'm thinking of ways to enhance the notation itself; math doesn't really try alternative notations that much, why is that :\
07:00:10 <oklopol> the notation used today is like 70 billion years old right?
07:02:58 <oerjan> some things do get more efficient notation occasionally
07:05:13 <oklopol> i guess a reason why the main notation is uaually the same could be that, unlike with programming, you can just use any other notation you want
07:08:01 <oerjan> like these days i think few people use Boole's notation for Boolean formulas
07:08:18 <oerjan> ab = a and b, a+b = a or b
07:09:09 <oklopol> well, in that case the mathematical notation definately owns
07:09:48 <oklopol> boole's notation was with "and" and "or"?
07:09:59 <oklopol> wasn't it the one with those weird characters?
07:10:08 <oerjan> no the other way around
07:10:22 <oerjan> i did not give the modern one
07:10:31 <oerjan> it may not be entirely consistent, hm
07:10:54 <oklopol> well, "and" and "or" are definately too verbose for anything
07:12:16 <oerjan> /\ and \/ are probably most common now
07:12:48 <oklopol> we used those in school for the first few lessons
07:13:11 <oklopol> after which /\ and \/ were considered bad-.
07:14:19 <oklopol> teachers tend to want the students to use the system used in classes
07:14:30 <oklopol> to make checking a simpler process
07:16:19 <oerjan> i do vaguely recall my father has an old book which uses * +
07:16:57 <oerjan> about digital circuits
07:17:29 <oerjan> must have been my first introduction to boolean algebra
07:18:10 <oerjan> but nowadays - when you know about boolean rings, you realize it is xor that is the addition :)
07:19:07 <oklopol> i realized that right away, but the teacher didn't mention it
07:19:29 <oklopol> i almost yelled it out loud
07:19:52 <oklopol> when were boolean rings come up with?
07:20:08 -!- johnk has joined.
07:23:25 <oklopol> prime fields are the coolest thing ever, the lives of those before the must have been quite meaningless
07:24:22 <oklopol> that's prolly not the right term
07:24:49 <oklopol> like, a field over (mod p) where p is prime
07:25:03 <oerjan> galois field, except that also includes p^n
07:25:18 <oklopol> well, any field really other than reals is pretty awesome
07:25:35 <oklopol> yeah i don't know about n!=1, since the book hasn't considered that :P
07:25:46 <oerjan> prime field seems to be used
07:26:09 <oerjan> i think n!=1 is even more awesome
07:26:32 <oerjan> they're harder to find
07:27:28 <oklopol> i almost ejaculated when i heard there's always a generator member in the field whose exponents create every other member of the field
07:27:45 <oerjan> will the size 2^16 (i think) field i hid in my INTERCAL Unlambda interpreter do?
07:28:27 <oklopol> hmm... every p^n, where n!=1 is not a field?
07:28:37 <oerjan> i discovered in INTERCAL it was easier to do a multiplication over that field than actually incrementing a variable :)
07:29:12 <oklopol> on a side note, i should learn intercal
07:29:28 <oerjan> Z(p^n) is not a field for n!=1, indeed
07:30:12 <oerjan> but there _is_ a field of size p^n, which is not the same as calculating mod p^n
07:31:01 <oklopol> in that case, it is pretty awesome
07:31:43 <oerjan> also, there is exactly one of each size
07:32:43 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_field
07:32:48 <oklopol> why the fuck isn't this taught at school, discrete math is a fucking mental orgy
07:33:16 <oerjan> well as i said these are harder to find
07:34:44 <oklopol> i meant why am i learning all this now that i'm already old and wrinkled
07:35:24 <oklopol> what i mean is, this should be taught before integration and that shit
07:36:07 <oklopol> or, calculus could be taught in physics, and math could concentrate on the interesting stuff
07:38:04 <oklopol> i mean, these things seem so fundamental every time i hear something like that, i feel i gain +1 lev
07:38:23 <oklopol> and these are levels i could've gained in elementary school
07:49:25 <oklopol> surely galois did not die in a duel, his head exploded from all the awesome
07:52:58 <oerjan> yeah and abel didn't die of tuberculosis either </cough> </cough> </cccc...
07:56:14 <oklopol> sorry, don't know enough history to get the reference :P
07:56:51 <oklopol> i need to come up with something completely new, or stop reading about these guys
07:57:00 <oklopol> wonder which one is easier
07:58:01 <oerjan> Niels Henrik Abel, the greatest norwegian mathematician, died 27 years old
07:59:05 <oklopol> i know that much, i'm just assuming you were pointing out a conspiracy of some sort!
07:59:35 <oerjan> a conspiracy to prevent the world from learning about unsolvable equations!
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:06 <oerjan> why do you _think_ Godel was paranoid, hm?
08:00:08 <oklopol> well, those were kind of a bummer
08:00:38 <oerjan> just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one is after you
08:00:48 <oerjan> oh and Turing didn't fare so well either
08:01:22 <oklopol> hmm... this may be the reason discrete math is *not* taught in elementary school
08:08:08 <oklopol> the other day, i realized what i wanna be when i grow up
08:09:04 <oklopol> wonder if that's a wanted occupation?
08:09:32 <oklopol> i'm willing to compromise on the size of the world i'm goding
08:14:41 <oerjan> you could do like Mobius's major Grubert and inflate the world from inside
08:15:44 <oklopol> i think i'd prefer a simpler world, tbh
08:16:25 <oklopol> universe simulator programmers get paid well, right?
08:16:59 <oerjan> the problem is the pay is virtual, i hear
08:17:43 <oklopol> i guess when i have my own universe, i don't have to care squat about this one
08:18:07 <oklopol> anyhow, i don't get category theory based on wikipedia, unless morphisms are just functions
08:18:17 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:18:18 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
08:20:39 <oklopol> hmm... is a category like a system of axioms?
08:21:05 <oklopol> i don't get the analogue of morphisms in that case, since axioms are always bijective functions
08:21:23 <oerjan> axioms are propositions
08:21:55 <oklopol> aren't they tautologies over the object system in use?
08:22:27 <oerjan> not all propositions are equalities
08:23:17 <oerjan> the kind of system with a set of equations like for groups and rings is called a variety of algebras
08:23:20 <oklopol> i was just assuming you could reduce them to equalities, i guess you can't
08:23:48 <oklopol> and axioms are more general than that
08:24:08 <oklopol> understandable, i just haven't seen anything else.
08:24:16 <oerjan> e.g. the axioms for ZFC are not all equations
08:24:39 <oklopol> then i definately have seen them...
08:25:30 <oklopol> hmm, indeed, they aren't equations
08:25:39 <oklopol> i just like thinking of axioms as reduction rules
08:26:11 <oklopol> in which case equations are the nicest representation
08:26:38 <oerjan> logics often have only one-way reduction
08:26:48 <oerjan> assume this, conclude that
08:27:35 <oerjan> although for many you have a way to rephrase it as an equation
08:28:15 <oerjan> e.g. a => b can be rephrased as a or b = b
08:28:22 <oklopol> i need to take a shower, gotta leave soon
08:28:52 <oklopol> is that an example of it, or the general way to make any => into an equation :P
08:29:09 <oerjan> i think that's general, in boolean logic anyhow
08:29:51 <oklopol> is there a branch of math that somehow considers the number of steps needed for proofs?
08:29:55 <oerjan> actually an even more general way is as (a => b) = True
08:30:31 <oklopol> i mean, of course every branch considers that as part of themselves, but a more general one
08:31:06 <oerjan> i think essentially that's complexity theory, when you apply the curry-howard isomorphism
08:31:15 <oerjan> between logics and programs
08:32:12 <oerjan> there is a correspondence between propositions and proofs on the one side, and types and programs on the other
08:33:01 <oerjan> originally, intuitionistic propositional logic <=> simply typed lambda calculus
08:33:07 <oklopol> and that's what all the fuzz about automatic proving of programs is all about?
08:33:49 -!- clayrat has joined.
09:13:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
09:32:23 -!- faxathisia has quit.
11:26:41 -!- Jontte has quit ("Konversation terminated!").
12:00:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
12:42:43 <ihope> Yay, category theory.
12:44:12 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:13 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:13 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:13 -!- Possum has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:19 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:19 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:20 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:20 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:20 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:44:20 -!- ololobot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
12:45:13 -!- ololobot has joined.
12:45:13 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
12:45:13 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:45:13 -!- dbc has joined.
12:45:13 -!- Overand has joined.
12:45:13 -!- SimonRC has joined.
12:45:13 -!- GregorR has joined.
12:45:28 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
12:45:28 -!- Possum has joined.
12:45:28 -!- cmeme has joined.
12:45:28 -!- sekhmet has joined.
13:00:29 -!- sebbu has joined.
13:01:33 -!- drwilco has joined.
13:06:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
13:11:52 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:52 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:53 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:53 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:53 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:53 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:11:53 -!- ololobot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
13:12:12 -!- sebbu has joined.
13:12:12 -!- ololobot has joined.
13:12:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
13:12:12 -!- oklopol has joined.
13:12:12 -!- dbc has joined.
13:12:12 -!- Overand has joined.
13:12:12 -!- SimonRC has joined.
13:12:12 -!- GregorR has joined.
13:12:19 -!- drwilco has changed nick to DocWilco.
13:13:08 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
13:17:37 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:02:11 -!- jix has joined.
14:36:33 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:38:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
14:44:23 <oerjan> now that is circular reasoning
14:45:21 <ihope> It's like saying there's a morphism from A to B just because there's a morphism from B to B. :-P
14:46:15 <ihope> In that case, it was... a very nice o.
14:48:31 -!- chuck has joined.
14:48:49 <oklopol> oerjan: circular? yes. reasoning? definately not
14:49:02 <oklopol> o's are the result of reasoning.
14:49:15 <oklopol> not at all to do with the process of reasoning
14:56:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
15:06:13 <oerjan> now _that_ is definitely circular reasoning
15:09:32 <ihope> Circular reasoning makes me unhappy.
15:10:28 <oerjan> as long as it is not a downward spiral
15:10:41 <ihope> Helical reasoning is just fine.
15:10:59 <ihope> As a bonus, it's topologically equivalent to linear reasoning.
15:11:45 <oklopol> how could that be circular reasoning? i did not justify what i said at all, that can hardly be circular.
15:13:01 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has joined.
15:13:19 <oerjan> you were definitely reasoning about circles there
15:14:13 <oerjan> also remember rule #1: 63% of everything i say is a pun
15:14:46 <BoredCollegeGuy> Please generate 10 random numbers within the range [0,1023].
15:15:46 <ihope> 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.
15:18:02 <oerjan> [564,840,725,105,384,584,255,962,522,528]
15:19:08 <ihope> oerjan: did you, by any chance, take 10 (randomRs (0, 1023) gen :: [Int])?
15:19:29 <oerjan> print.take 10.randomRs (0,1023::Int) =<< newStdGen
15:20:00 <oerjan> and it took me far too long to get that typed right :(
15:20:35 <ihope> Though only a little bit, I'm guessing.
15:23:02 <BoredCollegeGuy> Please, state the most difficult problem yet processed through this interpreter.
15:23:53 <oklopol> i once processed a hello world
15:24:11 <ihope> Coming up with a complete AI program running at a reasonable pace.
15:30:01 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:30:02 -!- puzzlet has joined.
15:30:03 <BoredCollegeGuy> Please, let "most difficult problem" be defined as the problem requiring more work from the interpreter than any other problem. Retry last request.
15:31:59 <RodgerTheGreat> I've been asked to type the lyrics to 99b, but I'm not certain saying "go to hell" counts as processing the problem.
15:32:33 <oerjan> it does in IRP, in fact it's the canonical answer :)
15:32:34 <BoredCollegeGuy> considering the fact that that's a bug in the interpreter, I think I'd have to say no.
15:34:01 <oklopol> hmm... do we have any nondeterministic languages in the wiki?
15:34:22 <oklopol> i actually know a few myself
15:34:25 <BoredCollegeGuy> "Due to a bug in the IRP interpreter, it is very difficult to produce a working implementation of the 99 bottles program in this language."
15:35:07 <oklopol> lolcode is nondeterministic? i rather doubt that
15:35:21 <oerjan> BoredCollegeGuy: i'm sure they'll get to adding an exception to that if they haven't already
15:36:36 <oklopol> yes, although i may confuse it to another language... not sure
15:36:43 <oklopol> i mean the one with the pressure thing
15:36:45 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has joined.
15:37:38 <oklopol> yeah, that's nondeterministic
15:39:23 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has quit (Client Quit).
15:40:08 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has joined.
15:40:29 <ihope> I don't suppose it lets you add new commands
15:41:00 <ihope> Well, kicking won't let you change nicks.
15:41:15 <ihope> Can't you /msg NickServ GHOST BoredCollegeGuy password?
15:43:34 <BoredCollegeGu1> Please return a stack trace of the calculation of A(3,5) where A is the Ackermann function.
15:44:40 <oerjan> hm, this calls for something more than "Go to hell"
15:45:55 <oerjan> Go to Malebolge, You Fiend!
15:46:03 <ihope> BoredCollegeGu1: will do!
15:46:57 * DocWilco points out to BoredCollegeGu1 that the topic contains "IRP in #irp"
15:47:38 <oklopol> irp is okay if you know it's not
15:49:32 <BoredCollegeGu1> that's another place where we could do with a wiki update then.
15:49:48 -!- clayrat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
15:51:01 <BoredCollegeGu1> on the other hand, #irp seems to be unimplemented at this point.
15:51:55 <DocWilco> it's still quite unimplemented it seems =)
15:52:48 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
15:52:56 <oklopol> there's no #irc? where will all the irc'rs go then? :O
15:52:57 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:52:58 -!- jix has joined.
15:54:00 <ihope> BoredCollegeGu1: well, it's running.
15:54:11 <ihope> Oh, it's finished. The answer is 61.
15:54:16 <DocWilco> BoredCollegeGu1: you can change nicks now
15:54:41 <ihope> Except it isn't actually? Hmm.
15:54:58 <ihope> Well, I'll give what it gave.
15:55:14 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure the request was for the actual trace
15:55:21 <ihope> Oh, it exceeded my scrollback.
15:55:27 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has changed nick to BoredCollegeGuy.
15:55:48 <ihope> Now I need to stuff this into a file somehow.
15:58:15 -!- Tritonio__ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:08:47 <ihope> Oh, that's why the program gave the wrong output. I gave it the wrong input.
16:12:18 <oklopol> i always have that problem, 100 lines of code, no bugs... and then i debug for 2 hours to find i was testing it with a different input than i thought
16:15:04 <ihope> Good thing I saw the error immediately upon seeing the "stack trace".
16:15:13 <ihope> And all this work just to get 253!
16:15:24 -!- iEhird has joined.
16:15:42 <ihope> Is it a me-parody or an Apple user?
16:15:57 <ihope> Or something entirely different?
16:16:52 <iEhird> using a native IRC client
16:18:22 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:18:35 -!- iEhird has joined.
16:19:01 <GregorR> They have an IRC client for iPhone?
16:19:31 <GregorR> I'm gonna go with "no" on VoIP, as that would undermine their business model :P
16:19:35 <iEhird> off your need to jailbreak it first
16:19:59 <GregorR> You jail-broke yours? Need to carefully not update it? :)
16:20:33 <iEhird> carefly not update more like press no when iTunes adis
16:20:42 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
16:21:06 <GregorR> I would think Apple's software would make it more difficult not to update.
16:21:47 <iEhird> you are thinking of microsoft
16:22:12 <GregorR> No, I'm thinking of both Microsoft and Apple.
16:23:46 -!- EHIRDm has joined.
16:23:50 -!- jix has joined.
16:24:02 <EHIRDm> Hi from different client
16:24:13 -!- EHIRDm has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:24:44 <iEhird> gregor r appple products never do that to ne
16:35:26 <iEhird> WTF spam call from my carrier XD
16:37:19 <GregorR> They want you to switch to the Snapple dyePhone
16:38:46 <iEhird> docwilcp I've found it significantly more useful than a brick
16:39:25 <GregorR> Clearly you've just been using bad bricks.
16:39:57 <DocWilco> iEhird: well, I'm talking about the people who managed to brick it by hacking the provider lock and then upgrading firmware
16:40:08 <DocWilco> and yes, I'm aware that that's been fixed
16:40:29 <iEhird> ah well jailbreaking cannot brick
16:40:53 <ihope> It's very very as.
16:41:07 <ihope> It's as as as a's.
16:41:17 <GregorR> I would say that it's perhaps 95% as, I don't think it's reasonable to say it's 100% as though.
16:41:41 <ihope> It's as though they were such.
16:43:05 <ihope> BoredCollegeGuy: well, it got as far as A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,
16:43:07 <ihope> A(0,A(1,139)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))).
16:45:02 <oerjan> ackermann traces should be smote on sight
16:50:07 <oerjan> that, and http://irregularwebcomic.net/41.html
16:58:34 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:59:56 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:13:10 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has joined.
17:35:28 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
17:35:28 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
17:45:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:02:13 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p511455216.txt <<< simplified some of the old syntax... and added tons more :))))
18:21:01 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:43:04 <oklopol> http://www.realtruth.org/articles/070601-006-teog.html?cid=g1193&s_kwcid=ContentNetwork|1167384521&gclid=CPjLnaOOhJACFQtPMAodgB5tpg <<< useful pointers: i think The First Law of Thermodynamics part may be incorrect
18:46:37 <oklopol> occasionally, i like trying to take these articles seriously
18:47:29 <GregorR> WTF? I'm trying to find any logic in any of this.
18:47:51 <GregorR> I fail to see any sort of connection between the random nonsense and "divine zomgsicles"
18:48:11 <oklopol> this may be the reason i have yet to succeed
18:48:52 <oklopol> no matter how many times i see that sort of crap, "Existance Of God Logically Proven" just has to be read :\
18:49:55 <GregorR> "in fact, I learned that evolution is based entirely on faith, because no facts or proof have ever been found to support it!"
18:50:13 <GregorR> I love how he just declares that as an absolute Truism.
18:51:51 <oklopol> i thought people hear proof about evolution in elementary school
18:54:14 <GregorR> Hahahaha, I clicked through to the Evolution - Facts, Fiction and Fallacy (or something like that) article, and he claims that scientists haven't drawn a line between macro- and micro-evolution because they can't even "agree" on "where the lines of these particular disciplines start and stop."
18:54:27 <GregorR> That's because the line is entirely invented - THERE IS NO LINE, you stupid dumbfuck X-D
18:55:41 <ihope> Eh, "evolution" pretty much has two meanings, at least.
18:56:10 <oklopol> In 1967, scientists built an “Atomic Clock.” It uses Cesium 133 atoms because they oscillate (vibrate) at the rate of 9,192,631,770 times per second. This produces accuracy within one second every 30 million years! Wouldn’t you love a watch that accurate? Cesium 133 atoms never vary a single vibration. They are steady—constant—reliable—and cannot be an accident of nature that just “happens” to always turn out exactly the same. God had to
18:56:10 <oklopol> design the complexity and reliability of these atoms. No honest mind can believe otherwise. <<< i guess my mind is dishonest for crying "CA" out loud
18:56:18 <oklopol> whoops, longer paste than i thought
18:56:44 <GregorR> oklopol: Yeah, that in particular left me going "Uhh, what?"
18:57:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:58:25 -!- pikhq has joined.
18:58:32 <oklopol> hi pikhq, long time no see
18:58:35 <GregorR> "<ihope> Eh, "evolution" pretty much has two meanings, at least." Yes: The real meaning, and what these idiots have decided to interpret it as.
18:59:00 <ihope> So "mankind evolved from something else" is not a real meaning of "evolution"?
19:00:06 <bsmntbombdood> i can determine that evolution happens purely philosophically
19:00:07 <GregorR> That's quite possibly the worst of them all.
19:00:15 <GregorR> That's a conclusion based on the definition of evolution.
19:00:38 <ihope> Are there meanings other than "things evolve" and "mankind evolved from something else"?
19:01:09 <GregorR> "Mankind evolved from something else" is not a meaning of "evolution."
19:02:28 <oklopol> hmm... i don't really see how there are two meanings either
19:03:41 <BoredCollegeGuy> I'd recommend the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0
19:03:46 <GregorR> Evolution is change over time. That is, evolution is the derivative of state. Natural selection is the process by which biological organisms evolve in a nonrandom way.
19:04:18 <BoredCollegeGuy> dude use genetic algorithms to evolve a clock from its components.
19:08:24 <GregorR> Hahahah, I love the "mating" clocks animation :P
19:08:59 <DocWilco> there's also a guy who experimented with evolution & natural selection of ICs
19:09:38 <DocWilco> one experiment eventually resulted in a circuit that did exactly what it had to, and noone could explain how it did it
19:16:31 <GregorR> That's usually how genetic algorithms work :P
19:16:47 <GregorR> Just like lifeforms, the resulting algorithms are so complex you can only say "Uhhh ... it works for some reason."
19:24:31 <ihope> DocWilco: do you have a link of any kind?
19:26:50 * ihope ponders chemistry simulation
19:26:59 <ihope> Biochemistry simulation, that is.
19:27:37 <ihope> Well, in order for chemistry to work, you have to have some type of energy storage.
19:28:58 <ihope> A nice non-chemical way to store energy is temperature differences, so the "sun" could be replaced with a hot thing and a cold thing.
19:29:58 <ihope> Say that everything that hits the cold thing bounces back with half as much kinetic energy, and everything that hits the hot thing bounces back with more energy according to the amount of energy lost to the cold thing.
19:30:47 <ihope> If the environment isn't quite ideal, organisms need to be able to separate themselves from it, so make it possible to build walls of some sort.
19:32:08 <ihope> RNA can perform many functions, so maybe we should have nucleotides as atoms.
19:36:45 <oklopol> would "warm things" be constantly bouncing from somewhere to keep the buzz going?
19:36:59 <oklopol> hmm, not sure what you are aiming for with this
19:38:49 <ihope> No; there'd be a perpetual source of coldness and a perpetual source of heat.
19:39:13 <ihope> I'm trying to think of a biochemistry model that might produce "life".
19:41:02 <ihope> Really, temperature differences aren't a very convenient way to power things. Some type of chemical energy would be better.
19:42:18 <ihope> Have some charged atoms and some "bubbles" in a two-to-one ratio and say that every bubble must contain at least two of these charged atoms at all time, and make bubbles not collide with anything.
19:43:08 <ihope> If a positive-positive bubble comes near a negative-negative bubble, they'll come into contact and maybe turn into two positive-negative bubbles going faster.
19:43:31 <oklopol> hmm, where does the sign come from
19:44:17 <oklopol> i thought you'd specify what that means later, but charged does indeed already have a meaning
19:44:45 <ihope> Actually, make it so that bubbles collide with bubbles if they come into contact at a low enough speed.
19:45:02 <DocWilco> ihope: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/adrianth/ade.html
19:45:21 <oklopol> if they can attach to each other, and then later blow apart, makes it much more interesting
19:45:38 <ihope> That way, you'll be able to have solid chunks of positive-positive and negative-negative that can ignite and explode.
19:45:46 <ihope> Yup, that's what this would do.
19:46:30 <oklopol> this would be proving abiogenesis, of course
19:47:03 <ihope> The clock video was sort of the same thing, since the original things weren't working clocks.
19:47:07 <oklopol> i don't think experiments have been as successful with that as they've been with evolution
19:47:41 <ihope> I guess the clocks had reproduction built in.
19:47:52 <oklopol> the problem with abiogenesis is we need the mutation and elimination systems to evolve without *any* system
19:48:08 <oklopol> which is essentially randomly choosing possibilities
19:49:12 <oklopol> and which is why abiogenesis might well be beyond our limits as we lack the million supercomputers it might need
19:51:03 <oklopol> i actually kinda lost my interest after i realized that.. :\
19:51:26 <oklopol> rekindle it with your big words, ihope!
19:51:47 <ihope> We can start simple and work our way up from there!
19:52:05 <ihope> We can prove abiogenesis one piece at a time so the times are added instead of multiplied!
19:52:36 <ihope> You know. Prove that very simple particles can make useful particles, then prove that these useful particles can make useful mechanisms, then prove that these useful mechanisms can make a cell.
19:52:55 <oklopol> yeah, i know what you mean
19:53:08 <ihope> Elimination is what happens when the energy source is overutilized, yes?
19:53:13 <oklopol> thought of that too, although unlike you, didn't realize right away it would be awesome :P
19:53:21 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
19:53:55 <oklopol> elimination shouldn't really be coded in any explicit way
19:54:14 <oklopol> hmph, had "in in" there, thought it was a typo :P
19:54:28 <ihope> Still means the same thing.
19:54:56 <ihope> Now, really, simulating particles bouncing off each other and all would be kind of computationally intensive, wouldn't it?
19:55:18 <oklopol> if you have a continuous world, definItely
19:55:36 <ihope> Maybe we need to come up with a discrete world that can do the same thing.
19:56:19 <ihope> Keep velocity continuous-ish, but make position discrete, and then have a random chance of moving based on velocity?
19:56:25 <oklopol> well, as WOLFRAM, MY IDOL demonstrated in A New Kind of Science, discrete worlds with may particles can produce continuous-like behaviour
19:56:44 <ihope> Maybe I need a copy of NKOS.
19:57:26 <oklopol> nah, the awesome rate is quite low
19:57:35 <oklopol> it's just easy reading, is why i read it
19:57:53 <ihope> Maybe you could just describe how this discrete-continuous stuff would work?
19:59:05 <oklopol> well, first of all, isn't the general view on the real world nowadays that it's discrete?
20:00:04 <oklopol> let's say you just have simple evolution rules, you can have growth and movement in some fraction of that evolution's speed
20:00:35 <oklopol> this is just like the real world works, a maximum speed (overall evolution speed of the underlying ca)
20:00:44 <ihope> Well, what's required for life seems to be the big problem.
20:01:00 <oklopol> well, that was just a proof-ish, that it's possible
20:01:09 <oklopol> proof-ish-ish, i just mean, of course it's possible
20:01:35 <oklopol> but if we want it to actually work == something actually happens every step, i guess there might have to be a velocity of some sort
20:01:41 <ihope> Suppose we make our universe a cellular automaton. Essentially, the goal of an organism is to occupy as much space as possible.
20:02:34 <ihope> To achieve this goal, organisms that are unfit have to die.
20:03:18 <ihope> The game of Go is not life; a group can become immortal. But I do like the basic mechanic.
20:03:30 <oklopol> now we'd prolly like to somehow consider a pack of particles an "object", so that there is clear attachment, since with a really simple rule, there won't really be "creatures", and most likely it will either die out, or some simple structure will fill the screen
20:03:59 <ihope> The problem with CA, I guess, is that there might be a simple "crystal" that is the fittest possible arrangement.
20:04:17 <ihope> Which is what you said, really.
20:04:25 <oklopol> yes, this is why we want particles to be able to attach in a somewhat explicit way
20:04:36 <oklopol> and not let particles just multiply like that.
20:04:57 <ihope> Make there be entropy, which destroys things?
20:05:00 <oklopol> we can assume that if a certain praticle has evolved, it can have been evolved any number of times, right?
20:05:15 <ihope> I guess so; I'm not sure what you mean.
20:05:57 <ihope> Bleh, the particle system is such an easy way to create energy and entropy :-)
20:06:21 <oklopol> energy particles floating around?
20:06:32 <ihope> No, temperature differences.
20:06:42 <oklopol> the problem is that will be exhausted
20:06:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:06:51 <ihope> Not if you have a cold well and a hot well.
20:07:47 <ihope> (Which probably isn't the right source of the word "well".)
20:07:53 <oklopol> true, but what would they do exactly? create new particles or give the old ones energy?
20:07:56 -!- pikhq has joined.
20:08:20 <ihope> Giving the old ones energy would make them temperature wells; creating and destroying particles would make them pressure wells.
20:08:41 <ihope> I guess pressure differences are also a form of energy.
20:09:56 <oklopol> hmm, i like the idea of a well making new particles, and another one destroying them; every creature would try to keep near the creator to avoid death
20:10:51 <oklopol> there was a discrete simulation of water flowing against a wall, it created the same kind of vortexes real water does
20:10:59 <oklopol> although vortex isn't prolly the right word
20:11:24 <ihope> I can't think of a better one, though isn't the plural "vortices"?
20:11:37 <oklopol> anyhow, something like that well idea, i thinks, might be better than an explicit algorithm for extracting the bad eggs
20:11:49 <oklopol> not according to my type checker
20:12:05 <oklopol> i wrote vortices first, it was underlined red
20:12:33 <ihope> On Google, "vortices" is more common.
20:13:24 <ihope> A simple criterion for reproduction is for particles to be able to make other particles more like themselves.
20:13:57 <oklopol> ah, indeed, we are trying to get them to reproduce without external help, not to make a normal evulotion simulator
20:14:16 <ihope> Skin care product.
20:14:47 <oklopol> i could do with some, my evu hurts like hell
20:17:28 -!- RedDak has joined.
20:18:44 <ihope> Well, energy sources have to be used up slowly.
20:19:56 <ihope> If this universe weren't like that, everything would undergo a tremendous nuclear explosion and turn into iron or something.
20:20:53 <oklopol> we could have "organism" defined in the beginning of the simulation, but nothing resembling evolution; basically that would mean creating absolutely random thingies, and hope they'd start reproducing slow enough not to die because of lack of energy, but fast enough to take over the world
20:21:25 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: move to finland, and i'll take you to the mountains
20:21:27 <ihope> Ideally, the numbers would swiftly go toward optimum.
20:22:04 <oklopol> hmm... i guess we could use evolution to create evolution :P
20:22:23 <bsmntbombdood> how feasable would it be for someone who only speaks english to travel alone?
20:22:50 <oklopol> that wouldn't really be cheating, just making finding a reproducing creature faster
20:23:03 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: in findland?
20:23:55 <oklopol> it's hard to find a finn without enough english skills to be able to have a casual conversation
20:24:23 <oklopol> in france of germany... uh, learn french and german
20:25:04 <oklopol> not casual... that's not the word i'm looking for, i mean, pretty much everyone has a basic understanding of english
20:25:32 <oklopol> at least that's my experience, i do tend to overestimate people's skills
20:26:02 <bsmntbombdood> where is it possible to go without knowing another language?
20:27:01 <oklopol> i'd say scandinavia, not france and germany, and i don't really know about the others.
20:27:22 <bsmntbombdood> of course england, but who wants to go to england?
20:28:35 <oklopol> well, actually, i think you can get along pretty much anywhere
20:29:17 <oklopol> except france, according to what i've heard, which of course must be true, almost no one knows any english there
20:29:20 <bsmntbombdood> i'm semiseriously thinking about traveling in europe this summer with some people from school
20:29:21 <BoredCollegeGuy> I lived in europe for a while. about 70-80% of the population I encountered understood english well enough for most things.
20:33:18 <oklopol> i haven't met that many germans, was more concentrated on the fact i was allowed to buy beer
20:34:03 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: you probably speak like 6 languages, right?
20:34:09 <oklopol> and the chicks we stayed with may have been bad specimens, since i could easily correct their one of their's german test
20:34:17 <oklopol> and my german skills are average.
20:34:26 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: sorry, still just 4 ;)
20:35:11 <oklopol> i was gonna learn lojban by christmas, but 1. you may not consider it a language 2. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna fail.
20:35:30 <jix> oklopol: in france people now english and other languages if you try to speak french but fail
20:35:33 <bsmntbombdood> i recently learned my grampa speaks like 6 languages and i was O.o
20:35:38 <jix> but if you don't even try they just speak french
20:35:40 <oklopol> since i've stopped actively learning it
20:36:19 <ihope> Learning a language in a month, eh? When did you make this plan to learn it by Christmas?
20:36:44 <ihope> I take it you're no Daniel Tammet at learning languages.
20:37:42 <oklopol> i made it at the end of the summer; learning it in a month would be easy if i didn't have irc, school and band practise like 4 days a week.
20:40:39 <oklopol> hmm, icelandic in a week? if i could do that, i'd learned every major language already
20:48:05 <ihope> With all this speak of learning Lojban in a month, why is Spanish a four-year program at my high school? :-P
20:49:06 <ihope> Well, Langton's loops are certainly a realization of a blueprint replicator, but I don't think many would argue that they're intelligent.
20:50:00 <oklopol> because 1. most people don't have a memorization system, and no such thing is taught at school; learning by example is slow 2. people study a few hours a feek
20:50:47 <oklopol> there are 24 hours a day, and that talk about only 4 hours of learning per day being possible i declare utter bullshit without any justification.
20:51:09 <ihope> Memorization system?
20:54:02 <GregorR> Yeah. The kind you plug into a computer and/or your brain.
20:55:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
20:55:18 <oklopol> flash cards are an external system, that can help the learning process, but you actually need to know how to efficiently peggify every bit of new information internally, to actually be able to learn words quickly
20:55:31 <oklopol> peggify == create a memory peg you won't easily forget.
20:55:46 <GregorR> Please teach us, o master.
20:56:19 <oklopol> i'd gladly do that, if i'd succeeded in this myself.
20:57:08 <oklopol> i know some of the systems used for memorization, but i haven't really tested them much
20:57:41 <oklopol> some require a lot of work to get to work.
20:58:35 <oklopol> i did learn a card deck memorization technique to some extent, was able to learn 20 cards in order in about 4 minutes
20:59:19 <oklopol> unfortunately i get very paranoid when memorizing, since if i hate it when i fail; it's very displeasing at first...
21:00:08 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has left (?).
21:00:10 <GregorR> Irony (n) i-ro-ny: This conversation.
21:00:52 <GregorR> How many times did you have to correct your statement that you hate it /when/ you fail? ^^
21:01:09 <GregorR> I would have to say you /fail/ed to get it right in the first place :P
21:01:40 <oklopol> i meant when my memory fails, but i guess you have a point
21:02:26 <oklopol> i don't really care if i fail at typing
21:02:29 <GregorR> Joke (n) jo-ke: Something which oklopol will ruin through overexamination.
21:02:43 <oklopol> yes, this is usually intentional
21:03:14 <oklopol> and even though i always do that, and often show no signs of it, i never get it when others do it.
21:03:39 <oklopol> I GUESS YOU GOTTA BE A SWAN TO KNOW A SWAN
21:29:46 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:29:49 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:16:00 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:17:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:17:52 -!- oklopol has joined.
22:28:42 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:30:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:30:42 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:37:33 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
23:10:36 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:32:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined.
23:52:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).