00:00:00 <b_jonas> Happy New Year to the +00:00 timezone offset! Happy New Year HackEso.
00:00:19 <oerjan> `botsnack with cognac chocolate
00:00:53 <b_jonas> do any of the other bots have a well-defined timezone?
00:00:58 <lambdabot> Local time for b_jonas is Wed Jan 1 01:00:54 2020
00:01:04 <lambdabot> I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time?
00:01:42 <oerjan> lambdabot used to be even more snarky back when @vixen worked
00:01:49 <lambdabot> You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference.
00:01:57 <kmc> i find it hilarious
00:02:03 <kmc> that @vixen was removed for being offensive
00:02:07 <kmc> so now it auto-corrects to @nixon
00:02:13 <kmc> which is more offensive
00:02:15 <lambdabot> I can take it. The tougher it gets, the cooler I get.
00:02:17 <lambdabot> In a flat choice between smoke and jobs, we're for jobs...But just keep me out of trouble on environmental issues.
00:02:48 <oerjan> kmc: yeah but @nixon is just politically offensive, while @vixen was occasionlly nsfw
00:03:05 <oerjan> not that i actually consider nsfw more than an american obsession
00:03:19 <kmc> there are some choice quotes about the blacks and the jews in there
00:03:40 <b_jonas> when's the next new year? do we have anyone to the east of the big -05:00 timezone?
00:03:41 <oerjan> i suppose those could be nsfw as well
00:03:54 <HackEso> Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here.
00:04:19 <kmc> `? cannabis
00:04:38 <oerjan> are you implying venezuelans would be?
00:04:59 <oerjan> although i banned canaima users so there are a lot fewer than there used to
00:05:19 <oerjan> (they were pretty much entirely lost people)
00:05:50 <kmc> 23:20 < kmc> though i'm sure if you went through the logs you could find loads of embarrassing things i've said
00:05:52 <oerjan> occasionally someone gets through who has changed the default username
00:05:53 <kmc> 23:20 < kmc> @nixon
00:05:55 <b_jonas> oerjan: they would be, they're in -04:00 timezone offset, but I was more like asking HackEso because I don't remember what geographical place canaima was associated with
00:05:56 <kmc> 23:20 < lambdabot> I'm glad I'm not Brezhnev. Being the Russian leader in the Kremlin. You never know if someone's tape recording what you say.
00:08:28 <oerjan> quote of the century, that
00:08:46 <b_jonas> but even apart from that, there could be someone from the -03 or -04 timezones just randomly here. I know there are some south americans on the internet who speak English.
00:09:26 <b_jonas> I wonder why this channel has nobody from australia or new zealand by the way. maybe those countries are too sane and #esoteric attracts us crazy ones only.
00:09:47 <b_jonas> I mean in general, not during the current fires in particular.
00:09:48 <oerjan> b_jonas: itidus was australian, though not particularly sane
00:10:15 <b_jonas> like, some of them don't have internet access right now, or are evacuated and have bigger problems than chatting on #esoteric
00:10:42 <b_jonas> and HackEgo used New Zealand locale but UTC timezone I believe
00:10:59 <bunnyocto19> hm nah australia seems to have pretty high insanity rates
00:10:59 <oerjan> i suspect it may be just time zone making it awkward for them?
00:11:29 <bunnyocto19> maybe it's just the wrong kind of insanity
00:11:40 <b_jonas> oerjan: oh come on, we have people with the weirdest circadian rhythms here, like Europeans active during american times
00:12:05 <bunnyocto19> people who use python are logically insane
00:12:43 <oerjan> bunnyocto19: hm wait are you mroman in very slight disguise
00:13:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: it took me a long time to realize that as well
00:13:35 <oerjan> no, for blsq, but you spoke about the author in third person so i first thought it was _not_ you
00:14:00 <oerjan> but just now that australian thing got me to check your whois
00:14:39 <oerjan> (irc whois + unix whois, in combination)
00:14:54 <oerjan> bunnyocto19: it gives an ip which the other whois tells is swiss
00:15:07 <b_jonas> bunnyocto19: it says you're using webchat
00:15:59 <oerjan> sure, but a swiss who does burlesque? seemed more likely it was the same person.
00:16:02 -!- bunnyocto19 has changed nick to mroman.
00:16:45 <mroman> and by them I mean my insurance provider.
00:17:00 <HackEso> Wed Jan 1 00:16:59 UTC 2020
00:17:08 <HackEso> Today is Sweetmorn, the 1st day of Chaos in the YOLD 3186
00:17:22 <kmc> happy 3186
00:17:40 <mroman> oerjan: burlesque is getting maintained again at least
00:17:43 <kmc> what sets the year 0 of the discordian calendar, again?
00:18:37 <mroman> i'm on work disability
00:18:40 <oerjan> <b_jonas> oerjan: oh come on, we have people with the weirdest circadian rhythms here, like Europeans active during american times <-- yeah but it still stacks the probabilities against them
00:18:47 <mroman> not sure they would count chatting as work or something.
00:19:16 <fizzie> kmc: Hmm, I don't know. The calendar page just says "[1970 = 3136]".
00:19:43 <mroman> and legally the gov is allowed to spy on people on disability
00:19:50 <b_jonas> mroman: oh, only that? so it's not, like, you're inpatient in a hospital and banned from using the internet at certain times but smuggled in a device (come on, that's a serious possibility, people on #esoteric reported that)
00:20:10 <mroman> I used to be banned from the internet
00:20:32 <fizzie> kmc: Oh, apparently it's because the Curse of Greyface happened in the year 1166 B.C.
00:20:38 <mroman> that's part of the abuse story
00:20:40 <kmc> b_jonas: hm, I have a guess who that would have been
00:20:55 <mroman> which i'm legally not going to tell any details until the case is settled
00:21:11 <fizzie> "In the year 1166 B.C., a malcontented hunchbrain by the name of Greyface, got it into his head that the universe was as humorless as he, and he began to teach that play was sinful because it contradicted the ways of Serious Order."
00:21:23 <kmc> story checks out
00:22:09 <mroman> i mean most hospitals allow you to use your phones and laptopts
00:22:16 <mroman> heard different things about the US
00:22:17 <b_jonas> mroman: makes sense to not want that on a channel that is publicly logged forever
00:22:35 <b_jonas> mroman: yes, but I specifically said banned during part of the day
00:23:04 <b_jonas> and it's during the night in switzerland
00:23:08 <mroman> they only do that for punishments
00:23:13 <mroman> but not as a general rule
00:23:42 <mroman> basically if you're a 25y old adult who behaves like a 14 crappy teenager they'll do the "give me your phone" stuff with certain patients
00:23:59 <mroman> but adult patients know the rules: "during sessions don't use your phone. inbetween sessions use it"
00:24:11 <mroman> those who don't get that will get their phones confiscated
00:24:29 <mroman> so it's only really a problem for adults who aren't really adults
00:24:57 <mroman> there's a no TV until 4pm rule
00:25:02 <b_jonas> ok, this doesn't quite match my evidence, but it could differ between countries or between hospitals or between parts of a hospital I guess
00:25:10 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lebster * New user account
00:25:21 <mroman> you're just not allowed to take pictures of other people
00:25:49 <oerjan> i'd be surprised if these rules were at all standardized across countries
00:25:56 <mroman> yeah I heard stories about the US where having your smartphone taken away is common procedure
00:26:04 <oerjan> beyond things bad enough to be human rights violations
00:26:12 <mroman> doesn't really happen here unless you have to go to isolation
00:26:27 <mroman> but even then... only under extreme circumstances
00:27:12 <mroman> if you're an immediate suicide risk you'll be put into isolation with all your clothes taken away and replaced through hospital clothes
00:27:18 <mroman> there'll be one mattress on the floor.
00:27:31 <mroman> all other items are taken away
00:27:48 <b_jonas> no pictures, sure, that applies to basically the whole hospital, because there are other people there
00:28:14 <mroman> that's usually just for one night or something and then you're transfered to a regular room
00:29:07 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68515&oldid=68487 * Lebster * (+234) /* Introductions */
00:29:08 <mroman> there was just one patient who had a smartphone ban but they used it for disciplinary stuff because that patient was a cranky teenager at 25 or something.
00:29:27 <mroman> well you can take pictures of the rooms here
00:29:31 <mroman> as long as they're empty
00:29:41 <mroman> some hospitals don't even allow you that
00:29:58 <mroman> what do you have to hide?
00:30:04 <mroman> or maybe it's a security issue
00:30:39 <b_jonas> mroman: even if the room doesn't have doctors or patients in it, it probably has stuff of other patients, because you're not getting a private room
00:31:09 <mroman> you just have to be crazy enough and you'll get a private room
00:31:21 <b_jonas> also it's easier to just ban pictures during the whole hospital without trying to discriminate the finer points
00:31:27 <b_jonas> no, you have to be rich enough for a private room
00:31:41 <mroman> luckily I could fake the first and I am the second
00:32:22 <mroman> but I don't use premium privileges from my insurance
00:32:46 <mroman> don't want special treatment even though it would be covered
00:33:15 <mroman> on the other hand you could argue that a 110CHF wasted a month
00:33:34 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68516 * Lebster * (+106) Created page with "I'm '''Lebster''', and I like EsoLangs! == Created Languages == * StupidStackLanguage (work-in-progress)"
00:33:49 <mroman> I just use ear plugs at night and sleep is fine
00:34:11 <mroman> don't care if there are three other people in the room. As long as I can sleep who cares
00:34:16 <mroman> unless they're violent
00:34:46 <b_jonas> mroman: would the special treatment include beds that aren't so terribly uncomfortable to sleep on that I have to put my mattress on the floor and even then can barely sleep, put it back on the bed at dawn before a nurse sees it, all while the doctors explain how important it is for my health to get a good long sleep?
00:34:54 <mroman> 8 Months hospitalisation is definitely my record though.
00:35:11 <mroman> I don't know. Our beds were decent.
00:35:13 <b_jonas> and proper chairs or benches in a place with lighting on which I can read a book?
00:35:18 <mroman> and sometimes I literally slept on the floor anyways
00:35:35 <mroman> but I can sense that hungary isn't as luxurious as switzerland probably
00:36:01 <b_jonas> well the public hospitals really suck
00:36:31 <mroman> mental hospitals generally suck
00:36:31 <b_jonas> though I admit I hate soft mattresses and soft springy bed frames, I've slept on the floor in a hotel for that reason too
00:36:36 <mroman> except for the nice private ones
00:36:59 <b_jonas> yes, mental hospitals generally suck too
00:37:08 <b_jonas> because of the other patients
00:37:09 <mroman> but private ones don't take all the patients
00:37:17 <mroman> just the patients with little ailments
00:37:20 <b_jonas> and because of all the rules that they have to enforce because of the other patients
00:37:34 <mroman> insurances pay crazy amounts of money to them due to patients.
00:38:09 <mroman> you can't put a violent patient who routinely trashes the room into a fancy 5 star private clinic with 5k in furniture per room
00:38:19 <mroman> not unless you wanna loose 5k
00:38:41 <mroman> the public ones need to be equipped to deal with the worst of the worst
00:38:48 <esowiki> [[User talk:Lebster]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68517 * Lebster * (+0) Created blank page
00:38:57 <mroman> so they treat everybody as the worst of the worst :D
00:38:58 <b_jonas> mroman: which side did you fall on when you got out of the hospital? are you eating all sorts of food with just a spoon, without a fork and knife, because you learned how to do it and are used to, or, on contrary, eating every food with a knife and fork, because you're allowed to?
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00:39:48 <b_jonas> that's a weird mental hospital then
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00:39:54 <mroman> there are open wards and closed wards
00:40:03 <mroman> but even on the closed wards you have knifes
00:40:19 <mroman> see... the trick is that if somebody were to use a knife
00:40:25 <mroman> you just isolate him from other patients
00:40:49 <mroman> that's how it's done here
00:41:05 <mroman> if they have any reason to believe you'd use a knife to injure somebody you'll be locked up in isolation
00:41:46 <b_jonas> I don't see how that works, because (1) they can use a knife on themselves, (2) they aren't rich enough to have private isolation rooms for many patients, and (3) it may be too late after they use a knife.
00:42:08 <mroman> you don't let it come to 3.
00:42:25 <mroman> 1) not when in isolation no
00:42:43 <mroman> the closed ward here has 3 isolation units.
00:43:02 <b_jonas> maybe I just didn't meet the isolated patients, by definition
00:43:09 <mroman> violent patients are really rare
00:43:15 <mroman> in the sense of "murderers"
00:43:18 <b_jonas> actually violent ones are rare, sure
00:43:20 <mroman> violent patients aren't rare
00:43:34 <mroman> but "i'm gonna stab you" violent is rather rare
00:43:55 <mroman> so you isolate them or transfer them to a better suited clinic
00:44:18 <b_jonas> that's true, they're in a different clinic
00:44:54 <mroman> there are also huge cultural differences
00:44:59 <mroman> some cultures violence is accepted more
00:45:05 <mroman> such as violence to defend your honor or whatever
00:45:15 <mroman> so naturally those countries will have more issues with violent patients
00:45:20 <mroman> swiss are inherently anti-violent.
00:46:28 <mroman> no offense to americans
00:46:35 <mroman> but I'd say that americans are more violent than swiss
00:46:45 <mroman> just the concept of bar fights
00:47:00 <mroman> there's zero tolerance for that shit
00:47:16 <mroman> if you slap another person in the face
00:47:54 <mroman> unless it's a psychiatrist
00:47:58 <mroman> they can legally slap patients
00:48:06 <mroman> psychiatrists can do pretty much anything.
00:48:25 <mroman> with the exception of sexual violence and causing death
00:48:43 <mroman> those are the three things they are legally not allowed to do
00:49:10 <mroman> other than that they're specifically allowed to do anything.
00:49:49 <mroman> yeah... few people know this...
00:50:00 <mroman> also... psychiatrists generally don't use all the stuff they could do
00:50:11 <mroman> that's probably partly the reason why most people think that they can't do that
00:50:24 <mroman> they just usually really, really don't.
00:50:40 <mroman> but they have the legal right to.
00:51:11 <mroman> my guess is one of the reasons they don't is because if they would then more people would start reading the law and the law will be changed within a month
00:51:45 <mroman> for as long as they don't do it then people have no reason to read the law and except for a few laywers and whatnot complaining about it
00:51:53 <mroman> the public sees no immediate need to change the laws
00:52:23 <mroman> people are very biased.
00:53:05 <mroman> "You know they could legally slap you?" "That can't be right?" "They can!" "Well, I was never slapped and none of my other inpatients were slapped so I don't think there's a problem"
00:54:37 <mroman> or like "so maybe they could. They never do it." Well, until they do it and you learn that it's legal and that you're fucked.
00:55:05 <mroman> people don't want to bother with problems unless it personally impacted their own lifes.
00:55:55 <mroman> anyway the takehome message is: pretty much all countrie's mental health laws are crap. we need to revise them. Have a good night.
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01:13:16 <zzo38> Now I set up a Fossil repository for TeXnicard: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/ I also set up a NNTP for TeXnicard, described on that web page.
01:13:42 <kmc> one thing i've been learning, while the American healthcare system is fucked up in many ways, every country has some fucked up stuff
01:16:33 <zzo38> Do you like TeXnicard?
01:17:33 <kmc> I have no opinion of TeXnicard
01:17:55 <zzo38> Do you have a opinion of Magic Set Editor?
01:18:55 <zzo38> (Magic Set Editor doesn't support CMYK, I think.)
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02:18:51 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is only if lambda is a macro
02:18:55 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is only if lambda is a macro
02:19:18 <oerjan> fungot: i defer to you as the expert hth
02:19:18 <fungot> oerjan: love this song reminds me of stepbrothers... dang! many props!!!! i love this song is that so good
02:20:05 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube*
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02:26:36 <oerjan> hm if i'd read the logs earlier i'd not have needed to ask
02:31:24 <oerjan> `slwd `fetch//s,Ego,Eso,
02:31:28 <HackEso> `fetch//`fetch [<output-file>] <URL> downloads files, and is the only web access currently available in HackEso. It is a special builtin that cannot be called from other commands. See also `edit.
02:45:10 <oerjan> <arseniiv> and this is very inconvenient and it lasts hours <-- have you looked at this remarkable new invention called a "towel" hth
02:45:31 <oerjan> just as well e's not here
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02:57:44 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68518 * Lebster * (+1892) Created page with "'''StupidStackLanguage''' (or SSL) is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Lebster|Lebster]] in which all operations take place on a [[Stack]] SSL Uses the..."
02:58:08 <esowiki> [[Naz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68519&oldid=68509 * Sporeball * (+359) prove naz's computational class
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02:58:22 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
03:09:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Lebster * uploaded "[[File:Ssl.png]]"
03:10:19 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68521&oldid=68518 * Lebster * (+39)
03:12:21 <esowiki> [[Naz]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68522&oldid=68519 * Sporeball * (-409) fixes
03:18:25 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68523&oldid=68521 * Lebster * (+145)
03:20:07 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68524&oldid=68523 * Lebster * (+68) /* Operations */
03:21:12 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68525&oldid=68516 * Lebster * (+4)
03:24:53 <zzo38> I read that in Magic: the Gathering, "Creatures with power 5 or more have flying" doesn't work, because the layer system first checks for abilities and then power/toughness. However, I am not so sure. I would think that determining characteristics from text and copiable values always applies. Do you know if it does or not?
03:26:49 <zzo38> I would think that "The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card." means it is like I said.
03:33:47 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68526&oldid=68524 * Lebster * (+77) /* Operations */
03:34:10 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68527&oldid=68526 * Lebster * (+42) /* Operations */
03:46:40 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68528&oldid=68527 * Lebster * (+117) /* Operations */
03:46:53 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68529&oldid=68525 * Lebster * (-19)
03:47:05 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68530&oldid=68528 * Lebster * (+1)
03:49:13 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68531&oldid=68530 * Lebster * (+3010)
03:50:06 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68532&oldid=68531 * Lebster * (+44) /* Implementation */
04:18:52 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68533&oldid=68532 * Lebster * (+32)
04:19:18 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68534&oldid=68533 * Lebster * (+0) /* Truth-Machine */
04:19:51 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68535&oldid=68534 * Lebster * (+0) /* Truth Machine */
04:38:29 <zzo38> Does the new C specification require that 'xy'=='x'*'\1\0'+'y'*'\0\1' for any character "x" and "y"? (Some people said that it is not a valid C syntax, but I don't believe them.)
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04:56:34 <zzo38> (And, if it doesn't, they should fix it so that it does, and furthermore that 'xy' is nonzero and '\0\0' is zero.)
05:13:14 * oerjan concludes from the logs that the channel has _two_ hungarians. the humanity!
05:20:15 <esowiki> [[Convergaptor]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68536 * Hakerh400 * (+10446) +[[Convergaptor]]
05:21:45 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68537&oldid=68504 * Hakerh400 * (+19) +[[Convergaptor]]
05:22:10 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68538&oldid=68014 * Hakerh400 * (+19) +[[Convergaptor]]
05:26:47 <esowiki> [[Convergaptor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68539&oldid=68536 * Hakerh400 * (+47)
05:33:40 <esowiki> [[Convergaptor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68540&oldid=68539 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
05:46:59 <esowiki> [[Category:2020]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68541 * Hakerh400 * (+11) Category for the new year
05:50:26 <esowiki> [[Convergaptor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68542&oldid=68540 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
06:24:50 <esowiki> [[Template:Yearcats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68543&oldid=58960 * Oerjan * (+59) *Poof*
06:29:28 <zzo38> Why on NMOS 6502 the instructions that seem like they should write to an immediate (according to the pattern of the opcodes) instead read it, causing mainly doing nothing important?
06:42:31 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68544&oldid=68537 * Lebster * (+26) /* S */
06:48:00 <HackEso> The password of the month is only if lambda is a macro
06:48:23 <oerjan> i wonder if the lost submarine gang is about to find out what trogulus was really hiding
06:48:29 <int-e> Ah, good job, fungot.
06:48:29 <fungot> int-e: i've been waiting for one of them i say more to the pilot wanted to say about her career on a&e's new music and film show private sessions. it looks good.
06:48:59 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68545&oldid=68535 * JonoCode9374 * (+61) /* Examples */
06:49:18 <oerjan> i was wondering after last comic too, although maybe not quite as strongly.
06:50:59 <oerjan> or maybe they'll find out why england is sinking. or both.
06:51:18 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68546&oldid=68545 * JonoCode9374 * (+277) /* Find the Factorial of a Number */
06:58:41 <oerjan> int-e: the spoilers are all in your head. you are feeling sleepy...
07:00:29 <int-e> oerjan: One of these days you'll spoil something significant ;)
07:00:36 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68547&oldid=68546 * Lebster * (+58) Added comment support
07:00:59 <int-e> Rather than merely reminding me how early (timely) GG updates these days.
07:01:31 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68548&oldid=68547 * Lebster * (+14) /* Find the Factorial of a Number */
07:14:52 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68549&oldid=68529 * Lebster * (+37)
07:23:17 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68550&oldid=68548 * Lebster * (+157) Added categories
07:23:32 <int-e> Hmm, did mroman explain his cgi problem further? I guess not... will have to wait for him to turn up again.
07:25:12 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68551&oldid=68549 * Lebster * (+22) /* Languages I like */
07:25:19 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68552&oldid=68551 * Lebster * (+1) /* Languages I like */
07:25:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
07:27:19 <int-e> Oh, I see what the problem is... hmm.
07:36:45 <zzo38> Recently I saw a telephone that you have to wind up. I think what I heard is that the winding causes electricity on the line. Is it possible to get it to work by fixing it so that it will just interrupt the line instead rapidly, or is there other problems such as impedance mismatch or otherwise?
07:38:20 <int-e> @tell mroman The burlesque.cgi should work again... lighthttpd added URL normalization which, if enabled, seems to normalize %2B -> '+' -> ' ' even in query strings. I didn't expect that.
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07:57:48 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68553&oldid=68550 * Lebster * (-21) /* Find the Factorial of a Number */
08:06:21 -!- blsqbot has joined.
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08:32:32 <bunnyocto> !blsq {1 2 3.14159}"Hi: `,009`! `,103`! `;009`1d"bf
08:32:32 <blsqbot> | "Hi: 000000001 112 3.1000000"
08:40:45 <int-e> bunnyocto: I think I fixed the cgi issue (mroman has a message about that)
08:41:32 <int-e> (Maybe if I was hosting more than one cgi... but I'm not.)
08:45:52 <int-e> Ah, it's great to have some fixtures in life. Schlock Mercenary starts the new year with a pun.
08:52:23 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68554&oldid=68553 * Lebster * (+58) added notes & comments
08:55:57 <blsqbot> | That line gave me an error
08:56:16 <bunnyocto> !blsq {3 4}"`$`! + `! is `m+;`!"bf
08:56:41 <bunnyocto> any crazy Ideas you ever had for sprintf or something
08:58:55 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Format_string_attack comes to mind
08:59:23 <bunnyocto> !blsq {4 0 1}"Smallest three numbers are `<`!, `! and `!"bf
08:59:24 <blsqbot> | "Smallest three numbers are 0, 1 and 4"
08:59:24 <b_jonas> Happy New Year to everyone, including those who use american timezones
08:59:42 <bunnyocto> !blsq {5 4 0 1 6}"Smallest three numbers are `<`!, `! and `!"bf
08:59:43 <blsqbot> | "Smallest three numbers are 0, 1 and 4"
09:01:37 <b_jonas> "<kmc> every country has some fucked up stuff" => welcome to the Real World that's not a perfect utopia
09:01:40 <esowiki> [[ArrowFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68555&oldid=65805 * Lebster * (+0) Corrected typo in table
09:03:45 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68556&oldid=68554 * Lebster * (+0) Moved to 2020 as > 80% of work on implementation and design of language was completed in 2020
09:04:24 <HackEso> The password of the month is only if lambda is a macro
09:06:42 <bunnyocto> !blsq {{1 4 -2 3 -10 99}}"Smallest number in `^`B is `m2;`!!"bf
09:06:42 <blsqbot> | "Smallest number in [1, 4, -2, 3, -10, 99] is -10!"
09:09:35 <b_jonas> also happy third year of the Brexit, may it not be the last
09:10:27 <b_jonas> `python3 -cprint(min([float(v) for v in "1 4 -2 3 -10 99".split()]))
09:12:20 <bunnyocto> hm. can I circumvent circular imports by adding a third module?
09:13:49 <kmc> happy New Year
09:24:53 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68557&oldid=68556 * Lebster * (-1) /* Implementation */
09:27:30 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68558&oldid=68557 * Lebster * (+0) /* Implementation */
09:28:54 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =.
09:28:55 <fungot> HackEso: the flesh of fallen angels thing.anyways i dont think i just can't get over it no one on board
09:28:55 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
09:28:59 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =.
09:30:33 <b_jonas> fizzie: it looks as if fungot and HackEso are listening to each other
09:30:33 <fungot> b_jonas: how can u say ppl died plz
09:33:24 <b_jonas> are we starting the new year with a hearty bot loop?
09:33:43 <b_jonas> ``` f=/hackenv/bin/STOP; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\nrm -v /hackenv/bin/botloop'
09:34:31 <b_jonas> ^def botloop ul (`botloop)S
09:34:37 <HackEso> botloop? No such file or directory
09:34:54 <b_jonas> ``` f=/hackenv/bin/STOP; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\nrm -v /hackenv/bin/botloop'; chmod -c a+x "$f"
09:34:57 <HackEso> mode of '/hackenv/bin/STOP' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
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09:35:27 <b_jonas> ``` f=/hackenv/bin/botloop; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho no'; chmod -c a+x "$f"
09:35:29 <HackEso> mode of '/hackenv/bin/botloop' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
09:35:37 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/bin/botloop'
09:35:40 <HackEso> botloop? No such file or directory
09:36:19 <b_jonas> ^def botloop ul (`botloop)S
09:36:36 <b_jonas> everyone, to stop the loop, say: ^def botloop ul (no)S
09:36:40 <b_jonas> everyone, to stop the loop, say: `STOP
09:36:52 <b_jonas> ``` f=/hackenv/bin/botloop; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho "^botloop"'; chmod -c a+x "$f"
09:36:54 <HackEso> mode of '/hackenv/bin/botloop' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
09:37:22 <b_jonas> fungot, you can listen to HackEso more than once
09:37:23 <fungot> b_jonas: ahahahahahahha im pretty sure there will be released soon ( yeah i am a hillary clinton looks more like a biker doing ballet, except for gay flight attendants...)
09:38:13 <int-e> Hah, https://esolangs.org/logs/ looks weird.
09:38:14 <b_jonas> right, HackEso puts a prefix to it
09:38:19 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/bin/botloop'
09:38:56 <b_jonas> int-e: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-12-31.html#l6b
09:39:03 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:39:19 <b_jonas> check out https://esolangs.org/logs/2020.html as well
09:40:14 <int-e> Did you mean 2021...
09:47:49 <HackEso> ehco? No such file or directory
09:52:46 <esowiki> [[!!Fuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68559 * Lebster * (+1055) Created page with "'''!!Fuck''' is a clone of [[Brainfuck]] that uses varying amounts of !'s to indicate commands. It is a member of the [[TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]] family of programming la..."
09:55:37 <esowiki> [[!!Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68560&oldid=68559 * Lebster * (+672) /* Hello World */
09:58:41 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68561&oldid=68552 * Lebster * (+63) /* Created Languages */
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10:43:47 <esowiki> [[OREO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68562 * Kamish * (+2090) Created page with "<P><b>OREO</b> - esoteric language created by [[User:Kamish|Kamish]]</P> <P>This language is useless as and all my languages lol ;)</P> <P>All programs it is as you cook cooki..."
10:47:32 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68563&oldid=67919 * Kamish * (+33)
10:48:42 <esowiki> [[OREO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68564&oldid=68562 * Kamish * (+0)
10:48:46 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokTpaFa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68565&oldid=65881 * YamTokTpaFa * (+147)
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10:52:34 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kamish * uploaded "[[File:Oreo.jpg]]"
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10:53:35 <kspalaiologos> because it stopped logging, but it seems like it's there
10:54:45 <b_jonas> then I woke for the Wiener Philharmoniker Neujahrskonzert
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10:55:24 <b_jonas> the log bot seems to be there
10:57:09 <esowiki> [[OREO]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68567&oldid=68564 * Kamish * (+35)
10:58:14 <esowiki> [[User:Kamish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68568&oldid=59908 * Kamish * (+13)
10:59:03 <esowiki> [[A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68569&oldid=66824 * Voltage2007 * (-3)
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11:00:00 <esowiki> [[Pxem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68570&oldid=66995 * YamTokTpaFa * (+224) /* Implementations */
11:00:18 <esowiki> [[OREO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68571&oldid=68567 * Kamish * (+0)
11:00:48 <kingoffrance> burning canine related philharmonic new year concert
11:00:59 <esowiki> [[Pxem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68572&oldid=68570 * YamTokTpaFa * (-19) /* External Links */ Link renewed.
11:01:38 -!- mroman has joined.
11:03:26 <esowiki> [[Ases]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68573&oldid=58537 * YamTokTpaFa * (+80) +CATs PLEASE!!!!1!!!!
11:04:20 <esowiki> [[ALPACA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68574&oldid=54705 * YamTokTpaFa * (+23) +CAT Languages
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11:08:16 <esowiki> [[RELATIONS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68575&oldid=59903 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24) +CAT Languages ...TBH I need more specifications....
11:11:07 <esowiki> [[BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68576&oldid=12053 * YamTokTpaFa * (+96) +WIP, commented your header.
11:11:29 <esowiki> [[BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68577&oldid=68576 * YamTokTpaFa * (+89)
11:11:46 <esowiki> [[BF busy beaver]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68578&oldid=68577 * YamTokTpaFa * (-13)
11:12:15 <esowiki> [[@text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68579&oldid=55383 * YamTokTpaFa * (+23)
11:13:05 <esowiki> [[What a mess!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68580&oldid=57000 * YamTokTpaFa * (+25) STOP MISSING Category:Languages!!!! Gonna be hard to manage your articles!
11:14:29 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68581&oldid=68484 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24) WTF! NO CATS!
11:15:29 <esowiki> [[LOLZ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68582&oldid=58173 * YamTokTpaFa * (+49) WTF! NO CATS!? HOW DARE YOU!!!!1111111
11:16:03 <esowiki> [[Talk:Esoteric algorithm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68583 * YamTokTpaFa * (+168) Created page with "== Categorization of this page == How should we categorize this article? --~~~~"
11:16:40 <esowiki> [[WARP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68584&oldid=45423 * YamTokTpaFa * (+62)
11:17:30 <esowiki> [[SASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68585&oldid=55930 * YamTokTpaFa * (+45)
11:18:27 <esowiki> [[Cappuccino]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68586&oldid=57889 * YamTokTpaFa * (+28)
11:18:28 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68587&oldid=68388 * Lebster * (+39) added SSL
11:19:46 <esowiki> [[Aeon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68588&oldid=65365 * YamTokTpaFa * (+2) /* External links */
11:21:08 <esowiki> [[Esoteric Processor/GPU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68589&oldid=44414 * YamTokTpaFa * (+10) +Stub
11:21:42 <esowiki> [[Onov]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68590&oldid=47352 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24) At least +CAT Languages please!!!!!!!!!!!11
11:22:52 <esowiki> [[GreenBerry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68591&oldid=55412 * YamTokTpaFa * (+23)
11:29:11 <mroman> at least he's not adding links to porn sites
11:29:22 <mroman> and at least he's not spamming this channel with !blsq commands like some other moron
11:30:05 <mroman> but that does indeed seem very odd like why would it have to manipulate query parameters like that?
11:34:07 <int-e> Yeah it's definitely wrong.
11:35:17 <mroman> btw you gave me ssh access to it right?
11:38:40 <mroman> int-e: can you replace the key with https://mroman.ch/PUB.TXT
11:40:30 <int-e> mroman: fun comment.
11:40:45 <int-e> mroman: I think I've added it.
11:41:01 <mroman> puttygen created the comment
11:43:20 <mroman> "Server refused our key"
11:51:15 <int-e> mroman: the user name is burlesque
11:53:16 <int-e> Oh, the fun of looking at auth.log.
11:54:04 <int-e> "Disconnected from invalid user rpm"
11:55:31 <int-e> But also some puzzling ones... drenthe, misiek, arnfrid, minami, vismara...
11:55:57 <int-e> (the list goes on, obviously)
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12:00:55 <b_jonas> int-e: do you make ssh claim to allow plain text password login just to collect passwords?
12:01:27 <b_jonas> especially claim to allow plain text password for the user "root" but not actually accept anything?
12:03:03 -!- kspalaiologos has joined.
12:04:13 <int-e> b_jonas: No, that's not why.
12:06:55 <int-e> b_jonas: password authentication is enabled because I've used it for non-privileged users. root has a long random password that I don't know.
12:12:38 <b_jonas> there's one more before the encores
12:19:46 <b_jonas> int-e: Wiener Philharmoniker Neujahrskonzert, live on TV
12:20:01 <b_jonas> it's a New Year tradition to watch it live
12:24:40 <b_jonas> I mean, now it's actually the encores
12:34:25 <mroman> int-e: I guess it's not longer needed anyway. TIO has Burlesque too
12:34:44 <mroman> so if you don't want to maintain the shell I can just link to TIO
12:37:08 <b_jonas> mroman: in blsq, what is the function that takes a block and an integer index and gets the element from the block at that index?
12:37:24 <b_jonas> I have difficulty reading the docs again
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12:38:22 <b_jonas> !blsq {"2HBT" "wgJ5" "aB0S" "5v1v"}0!!
12:38:25 <b_jonas> !blsq {"2HBT" "wgJ5" "aB0S" "5v1v"}1!!
12:38:30 <b_jonas> !blsq {"2HBT" "wgJ5" "aB0S" "5v1v"}0!!
12:38:51 <b_jonas> and now for the grand finale, the best part
12:39:51 <int-e> mroman: I don't really care either way.
12:39:53 <blsqbot> | wait, blsqbot answers on the channel even if I send the command in a private message?
12:41:35 <b_jonas> mroman: perhaps you want to change that so that it's easier to experiment with the bot without spamming the channel
12:41:52 <blsqbot> | That line gave me an error
12:42:15 <blsqbot> | That line gave me an error
12:42:25 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68592&oldid=68475 * Palaiologos * (+1061) bitop
12:43:09 <b_jonas> is there also a function that indexes the array backwards?
12:43:30 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68593&oldid=68592 * Palaiologos * (+10) hotfix, lol
12:44:06 <mroman> you mean like negative indices?
12:44:12 <mroman> -1 being the last element?
12:44:30 <b_jonas> no, more like (\l i -> l !! (length l - 1 - i))
12:44:42 <b_jonas> so 0 is the index for the last element, 1 for the last but one
12:44:47 <b_jonas> as if you indexed the reverse of the list
12:44:49 <mroman> I mean you can always just reverse it
12:45:03 <mroman> but I don't think there's a builtin for that no
12:45:22 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 6):
12:45:40 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 6):
12:48:37 <b_jonas> ok, so I don't need spaces
12:49:01 <mroman> (You need to escape \ when it's ambigous)
12:50:50 <mroman> and a char has no closing '
12:50:59 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 ... 4}si"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si
12:51:00 <blsqbot> | {"!blsq {" "\"" "\\" "'" "\"" "\"" "\\" "\"" "\"" "'" "\"" "\"" "!blsq {" "\"" "\"" "}{3 0 ... 4}si" "\"" "}{3 0 ... 4}si"}
12:51:15 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 ... 4}siQ"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}siQ
12:51:16 <blsqbot> | ["!blsq {", "\"", "\\", "'", "\"", "\"", "\\", "\"", "\"", "'", "\"", "\"", "!blsq {", "\"", "\"", "}{3 0 ... 4}siQ", "\"", "}{3 0 ... 4}siQ"]
12:51:24 <b_jonas> no wait, I need a concat there
12:51:55 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 ... 4}si\[Q"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q
12:51:56 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 ... 4}si\[Q"}{3 0 ... 4}si\[Q
12:52:32 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q
12:52:33 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q
12:53:13 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q
12:53:14 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q"}{3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}si\[Q
12:56:02 <b_jonas> yeah. it's a type of quine that I like to write because it's easy to write in most languages
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13:05:27 <blsqbot> | {__INTERNAL__:BlsqAutoBlock [BlsqIdent "L[",BlsqIdent "L[",BlsqIdent "L["]}
13:08:46 <mroman> This always confuses the noobs.
13:13:26 <b_jonas> you're saying that like a lot of people learn blsq
13:13:47 <mroman> sometimes somebody has a look at it
13:14:44 <int-e> mroman: Oh well. https://redmine.lighttpd.net/issues/2999
13:15:01 <mroman> but pretty much nobody
13:15:17 <mroman> I think clock and Hendrik are still golfing in it
13:15:26 <mroman> don't know of anybody else using it
13:15:55 <mroman> and almost never need hidden state for golfing.
13:16:41 <mroman> (it's usually more convenient to use the secondary stack I guess)
13:19:10 <mroman> b_jonas: but yeah. having achieved nothing in life. blsq is pretty much my only achievment so I may go overboard a bit with it.
13:20:37 <mroman> so blsq is pretty much my way to leave something in this world people will remember me for, even if it's just very few people.
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14:16:41 <fizzie> b_jonas: Thanks. fungot's manual ignore list doesn't persist automatically and I forgot to set it after restarting it the other day.
14:16:42 <fungot> fizzie: actually i have seen in a few other things probably
14:19:38 <blsqbot> | {ERROR: Burlesque: (_+) Invalid arguments!}
14:20:31 <blsqbot> | {ERROR: Burlesque: (_+) Invalid arguments!}
14:21:02 <mroman> you can't call pe on chars
14:21:39 <mroman> ps is not defined for chars
14:21:46 <b_jonas> how do I make a one-element list from a value?
14:23:52 <mroman> depends on your exact use case
14:30:37 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XX}si\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:30:38 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XX}si\[Q"}301200100200300404XX}si\[Q
14:30:46 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XX}si\[Q"}301200100200300404XX}si\[Q
14:30:47 <blsqbot> | {3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}
14:30:47 <blsqbot> | {"\"" "\\" "'" "!blsq {" "}301200100200300404XX}si\\[Q"}
14:31:18 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:31:19 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:31:28 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:31:29 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:31:42 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:31:43 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q"}301200100200300404XXsi\[Q
14:31:46 <b_jonas> ok, that's a shorter quine
14:33:22 <b_jonas> [ 5#.3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4
14:33:23 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2331592587604
14:33:39 <blsqbot> | {3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}
14:33:51 <b_jonas> !blsq 301200100200300404XX
14:33:51 <blsqbot> | {3 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 4}
14:34:49 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q"}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q
14:34:49 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q"}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q
14:34:56 <b_jonas> !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q"}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q
14:34:56 <blsqbot> | !blsq {"\'""\""'""!blsq {""}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q"}2331592587604 5dgsi\[Q
14:36:16 <mroman> not sure if this helps you though
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14:37:40 <b_jonas> mroman: is there a shorter way to write {}j[+ ?
14:38:10 <b_jonas> a way that works for any type of input value, not just for an integer
14:38:28 <mroman> if you want to make a block out of a single element then bx
14:39:38 <b_jonas> and is there one that pops two elements from the stack and puts them in a block of length 2 as well?
14:40:50 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Burlesque: (+]) Invalid arguments!
14:42:35 <mroman> !blsq |[5 2 .+ 3 4 .+]|
14:42:54 <mroman> maybe this way could be shorter depending on what you're exactly doing
14:43:29 <mroman> unless you only have two numbers on the stack
14:43:47 <b_jonas> um, what are |[ and ]| are they like the postscript [ and ] ?
14:44:50 <mroman> {} doesn't evaluate inbetween
14:44:57 <b_jonas> they look like the postscript [ and ] then
14:45:35 <mroman> technically speaking |[ pushes a marker to the stack and |] collects everything up to that marker
14:46:00 <mroman> (the marker that |[ pushes is |[ itself)
14:46:02 <b_jonas> but those can be hard to use in a stack language because you may need annoying temporary variables
14:48:37 <blsqbot> | That line gave me an error
14:49:17 <mroman> yeh. blsq has many ways to deal with "i need this data later" or "don't destroy this during temporary calculations"
14:49:26 <mroman> most obvious one would be using variables
14:49:39 <mroman> but there's also stuff like M-, rs and C! etc.
14:49:59 <mroman> or secondary stack, hidden state (usable but not recommended)
14:50:27 <b_jonas> what is rs ? it doesn't seem to be in the reference
14:51:20 <b_jonas> is there an index to the reference that is sorted by command name (or name of the token for things that aren't commands)?
14:52:04 <mroman> currently the "best" documentation is the moonpage+the language reference combined
14:52:12 <mroman> I'm working towards documenting everything in the moonpage
14:52:26 <mroman> https://mroman.ch/burlesque/docs/BLSQ.html#blockaccess
14:53:35 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 5):
14:53:38 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 4):
14:53:38 <blsqbot> | expecting white space, "o", "begin asm", "begin lisp", "fancy", "%", "set", "g", "get", "s", "S", "call", "proc", "m{", "f{", "r{", "q", "{", "\"", "-", digit, "'", "(", "y", "k", "`" or "``"
14:54:56 <mroman> a syntax prefix to be precise
14:55:00 <mroman> it's neither a special nor a modifier
14:55:07 <b_jonas> but aren't the prefixes ) and : and @
14:55:48 <mroman> Those are in BLSQ-Terminology called specials
14:56:29 <mroman> !blsq {1 2 3 4}")"ps(?i)[+e!
14:56:35 <mroman> so ) is not a syntax prefix
14:56:39 <b_jonas> this language is confusing
14:56:52 <mroman> ) is a special and a runtime prefix
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15:01:35 <mroman> runstack is basically an eval with a predefined stack
15:03:14 <mroman> the top of the stack for rs is on the left apparentely
15:04:59 <mroman> rz{...}m[ is basically GZ
15:07:13 <blsqbot> | Ain't nobody got output fo' that!
15:08:19 <b_jonas> mroman: what's the foreach function, which takes a list block and a code block, and for each element of the list block, pushes it to the stack then runs the code block?
15:09:42 <mroman> but basically this is just a map followed by "push elements to stack"
15:10:05 <mroman> but what's exactly the difference between map and foreach?
15:10:24 <mroman> so that you have access to past results?
15:10:29 <b_jonas> mroman: map collects the results from the stack into an array
15:11:01 <mroman> ah. there's no foreach. But you can do m[ followed by p^ or ^p depending on what order you want
15:11:19 <mroman> and maybe use pa in some cases I don't know
15:11:34 <blsqbot> | {{2} {2 3} {2 3 4} {2 3 4 5}}
15:11:50 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Can't load non hidden state! Sorry.
15:12:28 <b_jonas> what is the syntax to store to a named variable and load from it?
15:12:52 <mroman> !blsq %foobar=5 %foobar?
15:13:16 <b_jonas> I want to pop the value from the stack
15:13:20 <mroman> !blsq 5?i"foobar"sv %foobar?
15:13:44 <b_jonas> !blsq 17 50 "a"sv "b"sv %a? %a?
15:13:54 <b_jonas> and are there shortcuts for a few short variables?
15:14:03 <b_jonas> !blsq 17 50 "a"sv "a"sv %a? %a?
15:15:14 <mroman> there are s0 up to s9 for set and g0 to g9 for get.
15:15:25 <mroman> I don't think they were documented.
15:15:35 <mroman> but lref.html is a recovered old version
15:15:44 <b_jonas> !blsq %a={10.*} |[ 4 %a! 2 %a! ]|
15:16:01 <b_jonas> are there shortcuts for running a named variable too?
15:16:13 <b_jonas> !blsq {10.*}s0 |[ 4 e0 2 e0 ]|
15:16:14 <blsqbot> | {4 ERROR: Unknown command: (e0)! 2 ERROR: Unknown command: (e0)!}
15:16:16 <b_jonas> !blsq {10.*}s0 |[ 4 c0 2 c0 ]|
15:16:17 <blsqbot> | {4 ERROR: Unknown command: (c0)! 2 ERROR: Unknown command: (c0)!}
15:16:19 <b_jonas> !blsq {10.*}s0 |[ 4 r0 2 r0 ]|
15:16:20 <blsqbot> | {4 {0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 8
15:16:24 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (G0)!
15:16:36 <b_jonas> !blsq {10.*}s0 |[ 4 G0 2 G0 ]|
15:16:37 <blsqbot> | {4 ERROR: Unknown command: (G0)! 2 ERROR: Unknown command: (G0)!}
15:19:17 <b_jonas> are there builtins to load or store a single value deep in the stack, by depth?
15:21:17 <mroman> except using Cl<index>!!
15:21:25 <mroman> or something like that
15:22:01 <mroman> but that's a trivially addable one :D
15:22:11 <b_jonas> I'm not sure if those are what I want anyway
15:22:22 <b_jonas> I don't know what I want, it's a strange language, works in strange ways
15:22:46 <mroman> or something like that
15:23:10 <mroman> yep. it's in the lref.html under MV with the name "Move"
15:23:13 <mroman> but it moves the element
15:23:23 <b_jonas> !blsq |[ 'a'b'c'd'e'f 4MV ]|
15:23:39 <b_jonas> is there an unmove that hides the element back?
15:25:35 <mroman> Can't remember one and I can't find something that would look like that in the source code
15:25:59 <mroman> you're free to request one through the github issues tho
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15:27:34 <mroman> there's an XSwap for some cases
15:28:04 <mroman> hm. nope. not even that.
15:28:31 <b_jonas> is there a way to set an element of a block by index, whether in place or by getting a copy of the block?
15:28:42 <mroman> there's a setat builtin
15:29:52 <b_jonas> !blsq "hello"XX 9 2.+bx1sa
15:30:54 <mroman> there's also d! and D! for nested blocks
15:31:24 <mroman> !blsq {"abc""def"}{1 0}d!
15:31:44 <mroman> !blsq {{'a'b'c}{'d'e'f}}{1 0}d!
15:32:11 <b_jonas> what other methods are there that you can do on named variables, besides "v"vs %v= %v? %v!
15:32:46 <b_jonas> are there other suffixes for %v
15:33:22 <b_jonas> !blsq 41 10 'asv 'bsv 'agv 'agv
15:33:38 <mroman> uhm... that depends on what mode
15:33:46 <mroman> in fancy mode there's also "set X to Y"
15:33:57 <mroman> there's also scoping rules btw
15:34:30 <b_jonas> sv and gv don't seem to be in the reference or the moon
15:35:11 <mroman> and the moonpage i started from scratch but I haven't come too far yet
15:35:29 <mroman> there are also many more map shortcuts and stuff
15:35:39 <b_jonas> is there one that appends to a variable (when that variable contains a block)?
15:36:05 <mroman> nothing directly works on variables
15:36:10 <mroman> you'll have to get and set
15:36:25 <mroman> blsq has function scopes to be specific
15:37:55 <b_jonas> why am I trying to figure all this out again?
15:38:36 <mroman> !blsq nmPp%___FILE?P_%__FILE?
15:38:41 <mroman> !blsq nmPp%___FILE?P_%___FILE?
15:40:14 <mroman> !blsq 9s0nmPp8s0g0P_g0
15:40:44 <mroman> in one scope 0 is bound to 9 and in the other it is bound to 8
15:41:07 <mroman> i.e. when you call an actual function you enter a new scope
15:45:19 <mroman> !blsq fancy def hi: \set X to {9} bar() \get X end def bar: \set X to {10} \get X end end %hi!
15:45:41 <mroman> in the scope of bar X is 10 in the scope of hi it's 9
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15:52:50 <mroman> !blsq fancy def hi: \set X to {9} bar() \get X end def bar: \P_ \set X to {10} \nm \Pp end end %hi!
15:53:02 <mroman> like that. Now you've altered X in the scope of bar to 10
15:53:29 <mroman> it's not recommended to alter to callee's scope but you can
15:53:51 <mroman> if this were serious programming
15:54:04 <mroman> but this is interesting
15:54:09 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (t )!
15:54:18 <blsqbot> | Ain't nobody got output fo' that!
15:58:23 <mroman> b_jonas: you can actually use call to call functions
15:58:31 <mroman> !blsq %f={?i} 5 call f
16:06:30 <blsqbot> | __INTERNAL__:BlsqAssign "" (BlsqInt 5) False False
16:07:04 <mroman> using () is a good way to inspect what's going on behind the scenes
16:07:10 <blsqbot> | __INTERNAL__:BlsqCall "f" True
16:07:17 <blsqbot> | __INTERNAL__:BlsqGet "f"
16:07:24 <blsqbot> | __INTERNAL__:BlsqCall "f" False
16:10:51 <mroman> the boolean for call determines whether a new scope should be created
16:12:20 <mroman> and command of the year since 7 years is ^/ (DupSwap)
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17:16:06 <esowiki> [[Marz]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68594 * SoundOfScripting * (+4264) Began specification (still a bit unorganized)
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19:49:13 <esowiki> [[Marz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68595&oldid=68594 * SoundOfScripting * (+6159)
19:49:59 <esowiki> [[Marz]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68596&oldid=68595 * SoundOfScripting * (+3) Moved "//Adding more later. Need a break." out of wikitable
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20:38:44 <zzo38> I would thought a better way to implement pictures in HTML would have been <a href="..." inline="2"> where the "inline" attribute is a hint (not a requirement) to make it inline, depending on the user settings, where 0 is the default and means not inline, 1 or 2 means inline depending on the threshold specified by the user (at least 1, at least 2, or never).
20:39:50 <esowiki> [[User:SoundOfScripting]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68597&oldid=65760 * SoundOfScripting * (+82) Added [[Marz]]
20:40:10 <zzo38> For icons, a different way would be used, which is a "icon" attribute on a <a> or <input> element. If the browser is willing and able to display the icon and the user has enabled it, then the icon is displayed instead of the text that it contains (for <a> or <input type="submit"> or <input type="reset">).
20:40:39 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68598&oldid=68544 * SoundOfScripting * (+11) /* M */ Added [[Marz]]
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21:10:14 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68599&oldid=68558 * Lebster * (+4) changed wording
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21:47:44 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68600&oldid=68599 * Lebster * (+169) /* Examples */
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22:14:36 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68601&oldid=68600 * Lebster * (+567) Added calculator script
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22:25:28 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BN * New user account
22:34:36 <int-e> Oh, my lighttpd bug report got a reaction and a proposed patch :)
22:37:44 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68602&oldid=68515 * BN * (+349)
22:40:24 <zzo38> What bug report is that?
22:42:19 <int-e> zzo38: https://redmine.lighttpd.net/issues/2999 ...
22:51:07 <zzo38> My character in the GURPS has five eyes, sharp beak, antennas, scales, feathers to fly, four fingers instead of five, spit poison, and eat blood. What will such monstrous creature be called and how to make up the language based on such physiology? Maybe the former question can be answered by first figuring out the latter question and then making the words into Old English and then into modern English from that.
22:56:58 <kingoffrance> it seems a chimerical hippogriffin sphinx-ish with some "five eyes" intelligence agencies thrown in
22:57:45 <kingoffrance> i dunno, i think if you just merge other things, the end result is monstrous
22:58:13 <kingoffrance> or at least, to the medieval mind, such multi-part things are either freak animals and/or gods
22:58:52 <kingoffrance> i mean find creatures with each individual characteristic, or nethack some creatures use "scientific names" (or pseudo-sounding anyways)
22:59:08 <kingoffrance> arguably anything in latin probably sounds more serious
22:59:30 <zzo38> I am not a biologist and do not know how to make up these "scientific names"
23:00:14 <zzo38> But, that can be a possibility, I suppose. (I don't know so much Latin either)
23:00:30 <kingoffrance> that is a problem i had with introduction to biology class in school: i thought the categories were arbitrary, why memorize them, why not learn the scientific names? they did finally almost admit as such
23:00:54 <kingoffrance> i.e. that things sometimes get "moved" when a better "fit", or when most of a prior group is gone, then it makes less sense to have only a few things still around, etc.
23:01:19 <kingoffrance> so ive always been in favor of enumerating all the characteristics and then working out "groupings" afterwards
23:01:25 <kingoffrance> rather than trying to shove into a group first
23:02:04 <kingoffrance> i dont, but looking up english in dictionaries should provide pointers
23:03:34 <kingoffrance> i should say, i thought the specie names made more sense to learn; the other hierarchy names is also somewhat "scientific" so "scientific names" probably applies to them all
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01:46:14 <zzo38> They can speak English too, although perhaps not as well as human speeching English, since English is a human speech. (Also humans speeching their language won't as well either)
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02:19:12 <oerjan> huh HackEso fell off fungot's ignore list?
02:19:12 <fungot> oerjan: yea. i was talking about here, habsheim air show
02:20:03 <oerjan> oh well it seems the ZWSP stops it
02:20:14 <fungot> oerjan: smoz, you still you don't feature charlie in your videos more, and several others convicted of man slaughter
02:20:27 <oerjan> apparently has been fixed
02:20:58 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
02:41:56 <oerjan> <b_jonas> it's a New Year tradition to watch it live <-- he's probably exempt from being austrian
02:42:45 <oerjan> i'm exempt from not watching tv and being asleep
02:44:20 <oerjan> although i do remember it. as well as the ski jumps in garmish-partenkirchen, do they still do that?
02:49:57 <kmc> fungot: happy new year
02:49:57 <fungot> kmc: but, we are far outnumbered! okay! no...! help!
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03:06:33 <oerjan> <kingoffrance> arguably anything in latin probably sounds more serious <-- itym "QVIDQVID LATINE DICTVM SIT, ALTVM VIDETVR" hth
03:17:27 <esowiki> [[Tier]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68603 * BN * (+10377) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:BN]] |name=Tier |year=[[:Category:2020]] |typesys= |memsys=stack-based |class=:Category:Turing complete|Turing comple..."
03:19:22 <zzo38> I think it should be Latin if you are writing in Latin, and if you are making up new words in English then probably it should be English instead (unless there are no suitable word, perhaps)
03:23:44 <zzo38> Of course, there are a lot of Latin words in English anyways, but English has its own words, too.
03:24:57 <esowiki> [[User:BN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68604 * BN * (+96) Created page with "Hello there. Hi my name is Brian, and I created the [[Tier]] programming language, check it out!"
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03:29:08 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68605&oldid=68598 * BN * (+11)
03:29:51 <esowiki> [[Tier]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68606&oldid=68603 * BN * (+5)
03:30:35 <zzo38> (There are words from many language used in English. And it seems much more rarely, some people just make up a word from nothing, perhaps "cromulent" is such thing)
03:30:42 <zzo38> (and it is listed in Wiktionary)
03:32:32 <kmc> yes, it was made up to sound like a real word but is "intentionally morphologically opaque"
03:33:13 <kmc> unlike "embiggen" which is a humorous example of a standard construction
03:34:48 <esowiki> [[Tier]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68607&oldid=68606 * BN * (+18)
03:35:08 <kmc> there are various attempts to keep Latin up to date and usable in the modern world
03:35:23 <kmc> and even a Vicipaedia: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Pagina_prima
03:35:52 <zzo38> Yes, I think it is not so bad that you can continue to read/write Latin.
03:36:44 * kmc clicks "Pagina fortuita" a few times
03:37:02 <kmc> zzo38: it seems good to me, and definitely esoteric
03:38:40 <kmc> I am interested in mycology, which involves learning a lot of species names
03:38:48 <kmc> so it is nice to know a few latin words
03:39:12 <zzo38> Yes, it is good to learn many things, Latin and otherwise.
03:39:37 <kmc> one complication is that they keep moving the fungi around to different genera
03:39:50 <kmc> as DNA testing reveals that two things thought to be closely related aren't really, or vice versa
03:39:59 <kmc> so a lot of mushrooms have got many different historical names
03:41:24 <zzo38> Yes, I think I read about that
03:42:02 <kmc> it's only recently that DNA sequencing has become cheap enough to sequence lots of obscure mushrooms that aren't of direct importance to humanity
03:42:12 <kmc> zzo38: do you like mushrooms? looking for them can be fun
03:42:41 <zzo38> I don't like to eat mushrooms, but otherwise neutral
03:42:52 <kmc> I have been looking around the city for mushrooms every day
03:43:00 <kmc> i always find plenty of different kinds
03:43:09 <kmc> although rarely ones which are worth eating
03:43:22 <kmc> my wife made some yellow dye for wool and silk out of mushrooms
03:47:51 <zzo38> Do you know much of linguistics of non-human physiology?
03:53:09 <oerjan> . o O ( it's on the tip of my tongues )
03:59:47 <kingoffrance> i know nothing of mushrooms, but i chop them up and put in soup, on sandwiches, etc. i am pro-mushroom despite being a noob
04:00:26 <kingoffrance> i of course just purchase at store, i dont go hunting
04:16:29 <kmc> mushrooms are good on pizza
04:16:35 <kmc> or lots of other things
04:16:43 <kmc> i had an amazing mushroom risotto last weekend
04:16:50 <kmc> at a fancy french place my girlfriend took me to
04:18:33 <kmc> i don't eat mushrooms raw though
04:18:35 <kmc> it's not safe
04:19:01 <kmc> even for common button mushrooms from the store it's said to cause increased risk of cancer (but what isn't)
04:19:11 <kmc> more to the point though the taste and texture is nasty when they are not cooked
04:19:29 <kmc> a good way to cook mushrooms is to slice them, heat them in a dry pan to get rid of some of the water, then sautee them in butter
04:34:13 <imode-ruby> I see you saw the same video I did today lmao.
04:36:41 <kmc> i learned that from Mushrooms Demystified
04:36:46 <kmc> a book by David Arora
04:37:08 <kmc> and i'm not sure that sauteeing things in water is possible
04:37:08 <imode-ruby> america's test kitchen has a video about cooking mushrooms.
04:37:45 <imode-ruby> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLPLCmwBLBY this one.
05:16:22 <kmc> here's another word which sounds like a Simpsons joke, but it's actually from the title of an ancient Roman political satire https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pumpkinification
05:19:18 <int-e> fungot: Do you think 13 barrels are possible?
05:19:18 <fungot> int-e: you! take! we find!
05:19:27 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
05:19:38 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
05:20:56 <int-e> (context is http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/January2020.html )
07:00:56 <zzo38> I have heard of a computer with speech once misinterpreted someone's middle initial as a number. Their middle initial was M; do any kings or popes or someone else using numbers in this way have that many?
07:03:05 <kingoffrance> fungot: why cant i play ct as spekkio? what kind of open-ended multiple endings gameplay is that?
07:03:05 <fungot> kingoffrance: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes. no.
07:04:08 <int-e> https://twitter.com/OtherDanOBrien/status/1210741711313354752 is cool
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07:50:08 <esowiki> [[If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68608&oldid=63873 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24)
07:51:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68609&oldid=39434 * YamTokTpaFa * (+42) +Unsigned
07:52:38 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68610&oldid=54826 * YamTokTpaFa * (+59) WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU CATEGORIZE AT ALL!
07:53:03 <esowiki> [[Warp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68611&oldid=42552 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24)
07:54:36 <esowiki> [[BitP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68612&oldid=52503 * YamTokTpaFa * (+49)
07:55:03 <esowiki> [[EGSHEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68613&oldid=44804 * YamTokTpaFa * (+55)
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08:39:08 <zzo38> All The Tropes says the official motto of Hells Angels is "When we do right, nobody remembers. When we do wrong, nobody forgets." However, I could not find that on Wikipedia or elsewhere. Do you know if it is true or not?
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11:38:26 <esowiki> [[Comp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68614 * Hex96 * (+1334) Created page with "comp is an esolang by [[User:Hex96|Hex]]. it is stack based. ==commands== <pre> # print the top value on the stack in ascii. print the top value on the stack as a number...."
11:38:49 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68615&oldid=68503 * Hex96 * (+11) /* List of esolangs */
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12:16:28 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68616&oldid=68605 * Hex96 * (+11) /* C */
12:19:42 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68617&oldid=68581 * Hex96 * (+105) /* Examples */
12:20:18 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68618&oldid=68617 * Hex96 * (+18)
12:20:41 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68619&oldid=68618 * Hex96 * (+7)
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14:03:08 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68620&oldid=68614 * A * (+89) WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU CATEGORIZE AT ALL!
14:11:45 <myname> he always will be, i guess
14:12:04 <myname> i don't understand why he's so destructive
14:20:05 <int-e> I'm imagining a grumpy old man of 13 years of age... :)
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14:26:33 <wib_jonas> int-e: he's a BBC Norvegian village
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15:18:51 <wib_jonas> fizzie: in HackEso, can you please install the packages {unzip, zip, p7zip} so we can extract compressed archives more easily? this caused us some difficulty at https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-07.html#lVmb , so those utils would help. and they're not big.
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15:20:49 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: /hackenv/interps also has some directories in which interpreter stuff are installed, so you can create a directory there too rather than lib if you prefer
15:21:38 <HackEso> bconv \ bfasm \ bfi \ bfi-rle \ bfintd \ bfmake \ bfpp \ derle.pl \ labels.pl \ strip.pl
15:21:48 <wib_jonas> I didn't remember this a few days ago when you asked for a directory, because lib and share are the more standard unixy thing, whereas interps was some old style HackEgo EgoBot emulation thing
15:22:36 <HackEso> asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz
15:23:22 <fizzie> `` which zip; which unzip; which p7zip
15:23:23 <HackEso> /usr/bin/zip \ /usr/bin/unzip \ /usr/bin/p7zip
15:25:33 <wib_jonas> fizzie: oops, it seems the 7z utility is in the p7zip-full package. debian is confusing with its nice fine-grained packages.
15:26:09 <wib_jonas> I thought p7zip-full was the GUI component -- nope
15:26:22 <fizzie> Right. It was on the recommended list. Added that as well.
15:26:31 <HackEso> \ 7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21 \ p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=C,Utf16=off,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,1 CPU QEMU Virtual CPU version 2.1.3 (623),ASM) \ \ Usage: 7z <command> [<switches>...] <archive_name> [<file_names>...] \ [<@listfiles...>] \ \ <Commands> \ a : Add files to archive \ b : Benchmark \ d : Delete files from archive \ e : Extract files from archive (without using directory name
15:26:39 <wib_jonas> unzip is the most important, but this can help
15:26:57 <HackEso> \ 7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21 \ p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=C,Utf16=off,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,1 CPU QEMU Virtual CPU version 2.1.3 (623),ASM) \ \ Scanning the drive for archives: \ 1 file, 41301 bytes (41 KiB) \ \ Listing archive: asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ \ -- \ Path = asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ Type = gzip \ Headers Size = 10 \ \ Date Time Attr Size Compressed Name \ -----------------
15:27:11 <wib_jonas> ``` 7z l asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz | paste
15:27:12 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.4903
15:27:34 <wib_jonas> ``` rm -v /hackenv/tmp/paste/paste.4903
15:27:35 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/tmp/paste/paste.4903'
15:27:54 <fizzie> As for interps, it's kind of related to the whole `! / ibin thing, though of course in the end it's just a directory like any other. The short version of that story is, /hackenv/bin/! runs commands from /hackenv/ibin/*, which typically (but not always) use binaries stored in directories under /hackenv/interps/*.
15:28:18 <HackEso> ! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems.
15:28:21 <HackEso> `! emulates the ! command of our former bot EgoBot. You write `! then the name of the language then a program, and it runs the program you give and returns the result. We used to use it to test out esoprograms in-channel all the time, but the set of included esolangs is fairly old now and so it's rarely used.
15:28:46 <fizzie> Not sure how expected it would be for new language interpreters to integrate with `!.
15:29:22 <HackEso> 1l \ 2l \ 7 \ adjust \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ bf_txtgen \ boolfuck \ brachylog \ c \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ dimensifuck \ forth \ glass \ glypho \ haskell \ help \ java \ k \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ lua \ malbolge \ pbrain \ perl \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ sh \ slashes \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda \ whirl
15:29:49 <fizzie> Chances are not all of those even work.
15:29:51 <wib_jonas> fizzie: after I suggested that to kspalaiologos, someone explained that it wouldn't be appropriate because bfasm isn't an interpreter, it compiles a language to brainfuck and gives brainfuck source code as output
15:30:14 <wib_jonas> so only that wrapper that executes the resulting bf code should be integrated there
15:30:55 <kspalaiologos> but one could wire them up so assembly code is directly ran
15:31:19 <fizzie> Well, that wrapper would be in ibin, but all the underlying machinery can well be under interps. If you wanted to integrate with `!, anyway. Whether that makes sense is subjective.
15:31:54 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/bfi: No such file or directory
15:32:59 <wib_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/HackEso#Interpreters explains it... nope, it doesn't
15:33:08 <kspalaiologos> ``` cat <<<"asmbf && bfi /hackenv/tmp/output.b && rm -f /hackenv/tmp/output.b" > /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:33:22 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/asmbf: Permission denied \ /hackenv/bin/!: line 4: exec: /hackenv/ibin/asmbf: cannot execute: Permission denied
15:34:03 <wib_jonas> it's all ancient history, `! started as emulating EgoBot's interpreters when HackEgo was introduced, but all that was before I came here
15:36:56 <HackEso> asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz
15:37:06 <HackEso> cwd? No such file or directory
15:37:08 <HackEso> cd? No such file or directory
15:37:42 <kspalaiologos> ``` cat <<<"asmbf && bfi output.b && rm -f output.b" > /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:38:09 <HackEso> asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ just \ karma \ le \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz
15:38:19 <kspalaiologos> ``` cat <<<"asmbf && bfi output.b" > /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:38:59 <HackEso> +>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:39:33 <HackEso> ?!? No such file or directory
15:39:36 <HackEso> ! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems.
15:40:08 <fizzie> `! befunge 0"siht ekil">:#,_@
15:41:39 <fizzie> I mean, `! itself literally just runs a binary from ibin. But mostly the assumption is for that to interpret the contents of its argument in some language or another.
15:41:56 <fizzie> You don't *need* to integrate with `!, as the help text mentions, it's kind of stale now.
15:42:21 <fizzie> What you put in ibin/asmbf should work as far as the wrapper goes.
15:43:40 <fizzie> `` asmbf 'out .0'; cat output.b
15:43:42 <HackEso> +>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>>>>>[-]>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.[-]<<<<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:43:45 <fizzie> `` \! 'asmbf out .0'; cat output.b
15:43:47 <HackEso> +>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:43:54 <fizzie> Hm, well, that's kind of odd.
15:43:55 <HackEso> `! emulates the ! command of our former bot EgoBot. You write `! then the name of the language then a program, and it runs the program you give and returns the result. We used to use it to test out esoprograms in-channel all the time, but the set of included esolangs is fairly old now and so it's rarely used.
15:44:08 <fizzie> Oh, your wrapper just executes "asmbf" with no arguments.
15:44:17 <fizzie> That's why it doesn't work.
15:44:32 <fizzie> There's nothing in ibin/asmbf to use its command line for anything.
15:44:52 <fizzie> `sled /hackenv/ibin/asmbf//s|asmbf|asmbf "$@"|
15:44:55 <HackEso> /hackenv/ibin/asmbf//asmbf "$@" && bfi output.b
15:45:01 <fizzie> `` \! 'asmbf out .0'; cat output.b
15:45:04 <HackEso> 0+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>>>>>[-]>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.[-]<<<<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:47:05 <wib_jonas> there's some sort of wrapper invoked by many of the interpreters in ibin that bridge that
15:47:13 <wib_jonas> it's a set of arcane shell scripts
15:47:43 <fizzie> Yes, there's a canonical set of helper shell functions in /hackenv/lib/interp that many ibin/* interpreters use to turn the arguments into either stdin or a file.
15:47:51 <fizzie> Depending on what the underlying interpreter wants.
15:48:04 <fizzie> But of course in your case bin/asmbf wants command-line arguments too, so those aren't useful.
15:48:16 <fizzie> It's just one file they all source, https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/lib/interp
15:48:33 <HackEso> ./ \ ../ \ 1l* \ 2l* \ 7* \ adjust* \ asm* \ asmbf* \ axo* \ bch* \ befunge* \ befunge98* \ bf* \ bf16@ \ bf32@ \ bf8@ \ bf_txtgen* \ boolfuck* \ brachylog* \ c* \ cintercal* \ clcintercal* \ cxx* \ dimensifuck* \ forth* \ glass* \ glypho* \ haskell* \ help* \ java* \ k* \ kipple* \ lambda* \ lazyk* \ linguine* \ lua* \ malbolge* \ pbrain* \ perl* \ qbf* \ rail* \ rhotor* \ sadol* \ sceql* \ sh* \ slashes* \ trigger* \ udage01* \ underload*
15:49:08 <HackEso> bash: at: command not found
15:49:08 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ . ${HACKENV-/hackenv}/lib/interp \ interp_file ${HACKENV-/hackenv}/interps/malbolge/malbolge.bin
15:49:39 <fizzie> Why not? It's a binary.
15:50:14 <fizzie> It's all a matter of convention.
15:50:30 <fizzie> `` ls /hackenv/interps/befunge # as well
15:50:31 <HackEso> bef.bin \ bef.c \ USED_VERSION
15:50:47 <wib_jonas> no, a flat binary uses the extension .com
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17:47:45 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68621 * Star651 * (+4182) Created page with "<pre> Animosian is a scripting language invented by [[User:Star651]] on January 2, 2020, after receiving a high-tech vision in a dream in 2004 or 2005, realizing that such a l..."
17:48:14 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68622&oldid=68621 * Star651 * (+41)
17:49:29 <fizzie> That's already how it works. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates documents the process.
17:50:12 <fizzie> (The "Every so often" is measured in years, though.)
17:55:27 <fizzie> I only cleaned up the recently created ones, that didn't even attempt to make a joke. There's a lot of A contributions left.
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18:00:30 <fizzie> I don't know, it's been featured for such a short time so far.
18:01:15 <fizzie> We featured brainfuck from 2013 to 2019.
18:04:20 <fizzie> My personal preference is still to go through the Befunge article with a fine-toothed comb and then feature that, but I never seem to get around to it. (Though the article wasn't as unpolished as I remembered it being, last I checked.)
18:08:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68623&oldid=66676 * B jonas * (+61) /* List of candidates */ unpropose Befunge, propose Nopfunge
18:08:53 <b_jonas> fizzie: ah yes, good thing you mention it
18:09:42 <b_jonas> the Underload article is in a good state, so that might be the most solid candidate
18:11:32 <fizzie> Huh, I thought we had already featured Underload, but apparently not.
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18:15:30 <fizzie> It's a solid choice, and maybe a new decade is a good excuse for a new featured language.
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18:17:30 <b_jonas> nah, we should probably wait until Thue has been featured for a year
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18:25:21 <b_jonas> I wonder if I should leave Befunge on the candidates page, but without my endorsement, just for the feature paragraph
18:27:45 <b_jonas> I think I will, and if you don't like it, you can just revert the page
18:27:54 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68624&oldid=68491 * BN * (+40)
18:29:21 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68625&oldid=68623 * B jonas * (+823)
18:29:59 <b_jonas> there are also some interesting ais523 languages that I can propose next, but there's a limit of one proposal per person
18:30:50 <b_jonas> technically you can, except for the IO
18:31:35 <LKoen> "unconditional branching" sounds like an alien concept
18:32:35 <kspalaiologos> also, as the minsky machine has just two registers
18:32:36 <b_jonas> the infinite memory is encoded in the two coordinates of the program counter of Nopfunge. there's a double-exponential blowup, so if you need n bytes of memory in brainfuck, the program counter coordinates will have 2**O(n) bits and will be of size 2**2**O(n)
18:32:48 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68626&oldid=68587 * BN * (+29)
18:33:17 <b_jonas> brainfuck is deterministic, the decisions corresponding to these deterministic branches will happen in the translated program
18:33:27 <b_jonas> so it's brainfuck without the . or , statements
18:34:07 <b_jonas> and it's not 2**2**20 bytes
18:34:20 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68627&oldid=68626 * BN * (+7) /* Tier */
18:34:25 <b_jonas> you never explicitly store the periodic code space, because it's periodic
18:34:34 <b_jonas> 2**2**O(n) is how large the program counter will grow
18:34:40 <b_jonas> that's not how large the source code is
18:35:17 <kspalaiologos> if the pointer will reach at most 2**2**O(n) the size is equal to square of it obviously
18:35:29 <b_jonas> and of course you can set n to 20 only if it's fixed size brainfuck cells
18:35:47 <b_jonas> the size of the imaginary playfield, yes, but you don't have to store that anywhere
18:35:48 <LKoen> "2**2**O(n)" o___O
18:35:51 <b_jonas> because it's a periodic playfield
18:36:02 <b_jonas> you only store one period, or two if you wish
18:36:15 <b_jonas> and the two coordniates of the program counter, which each have 2**O(n) bits
18:36:40 <b_jonas> of course if your brainfuck program is one that runs forever and requires unbounded memory, then the translation will require unbounded memory too
18:38:31 <kspalaiologos> maybe we should improve the minsky machine article
18:38:41 <kspalaiologos> I seem to understand the topic so I may take on it later
18:39:12 <b_jonas> hmm yes, that's a good point
18:39:54 <b_jonas> neither it nor the Fractran article gives a proof of Turing-completeness
18:39:58 <b_jonas> not even for many counters
18:40:07 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: it does give some information. it links to useful books.
18:40:28 <b_jonas> I put one of those books there, one where I read that proof
18:41:48 <kspalaiologos> and does it mean that two celled brainfuck is also turing complete?
18:42:29 <kspalaiologos> how for example do you calculate modulus of a number on this two register machine or two cells brainfuck
18:43:34 <b_jonas> but brainfuck with a fixed constant number of bigint cells is Turing-complete
18:43:58 <b_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Computational_class says that 3 cells are enough
18:44:52 <int-e> you need one extra for conditionals
18:45:03 <b_jonas> two integers is enough for Turing-completeness for a Minsky machine, but requires double-exponential slowdown; three counters or more for a Minsky machine requires only an exponential slowdown
18:45:38 <b_jonas> what is a "digit near instruction"?
18:46:02 <kspalaiologos> 3+4- => will increment cell 3 and decrement cell 4
18:47:05 <b_jonas> but what control flow do you have? the control flow instructions are the real difference. you can just use < and > to choose cells
18:47:16 <int-e> Hmm? Why can't you translate that to >>>+>-<<<<?
18:47:48 <int-e> The problem isn't the arithmetic, it is testing a register for 0 and taking different paths in the program based on that
18:48:45 <int-e> ("register" being one of the simulated Minsky machine counters.)
18:49:17 <kspalaiologos> so how can you implement modulus on a three register brainfuck machine with bigint cells
18:49:41 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: I don't know, look at that article I linked, maybe it gives a link
18:49:45 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68628&oldid=68616 * Star651 * (+16) /* A */
18:50:44 <kspalaiologos> >> and << are implementable just using */ so it may be possible to have two "stacks" on this brainfuck variant
18:52:03 <kspalaiologos> to extract a value off the stack one needs modulus
18:52:17 <kspalaiologos> and it's impossible to extract it using just three cells
18:56:21 <arseniiv> (unrelated) how do you represent cell complexes of arbitrary dimension? I’d use a dictionary from cells to their default orientations (in terms of default orientations of their boundary cells, downto points which are oriented unconditionally as e. g. positive) and then some dictionaries to represent the incidence, like boundaries and coboundaries, or just a plain dump of all incident cells for each of them, but which of these choices h
18:56:21 <arseniiv> ave a chance to be the most practical?..
18:56:58 <arseniiv> default orientations would be useful to supplement the incidence info
18:57:15 <arseniiv> then one would be able to represent oriented paths etc.
18:59:06 <arseniiv> also there should be a quirk distinguishing internal orientations (the usual ones) and external ones (like in pseudovectors vs. vectors), as one can’t orient the Moebius strip complex in the internal way but can in external one
18:59:42 <arseniiv> I don’t see where the changes would be in the representation description above
19:00:56 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: anyway, you're right, we should probably add a proof to the Minsky machine article about how they're turing-complete by simulating a multi-stack machine
19:01:05 <b_jonas> and ideally also the crazy proof for the two-counter machine
19:01:22 <b_jonas> because Nopfunge can only directly simulate the two-counter machine
19:04:10 <b_jonas> though I'll have to check the pages for ais's languages, one of them might already have a proof, since many of them are Minsky-based
19:04:16 <b_jonas> including The Waterfall Model
19:05:41 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: "crazy" is only my opinion, I think ais or oerjan don't find it crazy
19:06:02 <b_jonas> but it's crazy in essentials, that is, the simulation must be crazy in that it needs the double-exponential slowdown as far as I understand
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19:25:30 <int-e> That collatz construction is pretty tricky.
19:26:57 <int-e> (I was around when oerjan came up with that one, but I don't recall looking at it in detail before just now.)
19:38:14 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Amitbashan * New user account
19:44:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68629&oldid=68602 * Amitbashan * (+281) /* Introductions */
19:46:08 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68630&oldid=68629 * Amitbashan * (+20) /* Introductions */
19:47:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68631&oldid=68630 * Amitbashan * (+11) /* Introductions */
19:47:28 <esowiki> [[User:Amitbashan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68632 * Amitbashan * (+12) Created page with "Hello there."
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19:57:51 <b_jonas> there's an easy construction though, to translate a Minsky machine to brainfuck with bigint cells, where you assign a cell for each state of the Minsky, you set it to 1 if that's the current state and 0 otherwise, and the brainfuck program tests each of those state cells and performs its actions if it's set. this leads to a brainfuck program that uses bounded size tape, but the tape size depends on the
19:57:57 <b_jonas> size of the Minsky program.
20:33:36 <int-e> Oh sure, it all gets pretty simple if you add more cells.
20:49:44 <esowiki> [[User:Amitbashan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68633&oldid=68632 * Hex96 * (+32)
20:52:29 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke, kinda]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68634 * Hex96 * (+47) Created page with "The Joke, kinda category contains jokes, kinda."
20:53:24 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68635&oldid=68615 * Hex96 * (+44) /* List of esolangs */
20:54:12 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68636&oldid=68635 * Hex96 * (-5) /* List of esolangs */
20:55:20 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke, kinda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68637&oldid=68634 * Hex96 * (+32)
20:59:41 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68638&oldid=65723 * Hex96 * (+92)
21:00:21 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68639&oldid=68638 * Hex96 * (+13) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
21:00:39 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68640&oldid=68639 * Hex96 * (-10) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
21:00:48 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68641&oldid=68640 * Hex96 * (-1) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
21:01:45 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68642&oldid=68641 * Hex96 * (-13) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
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21:42:05 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68643&oldid=68624 * Lebster * (+193) added SSL
22:12:32 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me, I have to do this
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22:26:42 <zzo38> I added some more tropes for the story of GURPS game I play. But see if you agree/disagree
22:27:23 <fizzie> `` date +%d%d | tac # if we're being silly
22:27:38 <fizzie> Whoops, I forgot what tac actually does.
22:27:52 <fizzie> `` date +%d%d | rev # then
22:28:12 <zzo38> Yes, now you are silly, I suppose, and at this time, it works.
22:28:52 <HackEso> 2020-01-02 22:28:52.455 +0000 UTC January 2 Thursday 2020-W01-4
22:39:40 <esowiki> [[User:Amitbashan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68644&oldid=68633 * JonoCode9374 * (+134)
22:44:27 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68645&oldid=68620 * JonoCode9374 * (+4) /* Calculator */
22:54:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68646 * JonoCode9374 * (+323) /* The Ampersand */ new section
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22:59:15 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68647&oldid=68645 * JonoCode9374 * (+323)
23:00:18 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68648&oldid=68647 * JonoCode9374 * (-2)
23:06:33 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68649&oldid=68648 * JonoCode9374 * (+683)
23:15:43 <esowiki> [[Ekg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68650&oldid=68514 * JonoCode9374 * (+193) Uncat the page. \_( )_/
23:17:48 <esowiki> [[Ekg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68651&oldid=68650 * JonoCode9374 * (+316) \_( )_/
00:03:01 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68652&oldid=68601 * Lebster * (-79) Updated factorial program to more efficient variant (-9 characters)
00:03:12 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68653&oldid=68652 * Lebster * (-1) /* Find the Factorial of a Number */
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01:30:21 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage:Examples]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68654 * Lebster * (+1146) Created page with "===[[Hello World]]=== aviiiaiglbmfavdaiiiglbmlblbgifviiffiiifavdaviiimfaiiimwwifbbbbbfiiifwdfwdddfbvfbb ===[[Cat]]=== aitjfu ===[[Truth-machine]]=== htxux === Factoria..."
01:30:27 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68655&oldid=68653 * Lebster * (-1117) /* Examples */
01:30:44 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68656&oldid=68655 * Lebster * (+37) /* Examples */
02:12:48 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68657&oldid=68656 * Lebster * (-12)
02:13:29 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68658&oldid=68657 * Lebster * (+0) Categories
02:16:58 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68659&oldid=68658 * Lebster * (+0)
02:17:59 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68660&oldid=68561 * Lebster * (+13) /* Languages I like */
02:28:45 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68661&oldid=68659 * Lebster * (+590) added computational class (thx Comp)
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03:23:19 <moony> i wonder just how many of the esolangs users are young programmers
03:23:22 <moony> probably most of them
03:23:51 <fizzie> What's the technical definition of "young programmer"?
03:28:10 <fizzie> I guess we'd need Google Analytics or some other such thing to answer that.
03:29:15 <fizzie> Except I think it only reports age demographics from 18 upwards.
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05:15:46 <esowiki> [[HQ9F+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68662&oldid=66150 * YamTokTpaFa * (+1) article
06:13:59 <zzo38> I don't like the "Flow" system for talk pages on some MediaWiki based wikis, but some wikis use it, so I have written some JavaScript and CSS codes to improve it.
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06:28:52 <esowiki> [[Talk:2/9 of an esolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68663 * YamTokTpaFa * (+334) Created page with "== What should the interpreter/compiler do with non-command characters? == I finally get it that Hello, world! program begins with non-printable character, but what does it do..."
06:37:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:2/9 of an esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68664&oldid=68663 * YamTokTpaFa * (+141) /* What should the interpreter/compiler do with non-command characters? */
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06:51:32 <esowiki> [[Talk:Mornington Crescent]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68665 * JonoCode9374 * (+308) /* Add Dollis Hill as a Command */ new section
06:53:03 <esowiki> [[Talk:Mornington Crescent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68666&oldid=68665 * JonoCode9374 * (+332) /* A Game of Mornington Crescent */ new section
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10:50:42 <wib_jonas> I wonder if there's a fan-made Pokemon game that is entirely text-based so you can play it on IRC for example.
10:54:05 <myname> if i'd make a text-based pokemon game, i'd probably use ncurses or something similar
10:54:36 <myname> i don't see irc as a good target for games. i made some for telegram and even that is pretty limited
10:54:50 <wib_jonas> well, you could have multiple interfaces for essentially the same game
10:56:01 <wib_jonas> as for IRC and games, I think the Niagara board game could be played through IRC.
10:56:26 <wib_jonas> if someone wrote a bot that implements it that is
10:58:14 <myname> well, of course you could, but i cannot imagine it being fun to write stuff like "go 5 steps north, go 3 steps left, go 5 step north, list attacks, attack with tackle, attack with tackle, attack with tackle"
10:58:46 <wib_jonas> no, I don't think you'd have a grid-based map in such a game
10:59:15 <wib_jonas> and you'd just write some shorter commands instead of "attack with tackle", which is feasable because your pokemon has at most four moves
11:00:25 <myname> but exploration is a key component in these games
11:01:52 <wib_jonas> sure, so you'd have a graph-based map. the game lists the four houses in the town and tells that you can also enter the forest or the mountains, and if you choose the forest, you'll probably get random encounters, and in the forest, you can go on or turn back, but you don't micromanage the steps
11:02:17 <wib_jonas> of course then you might not be able to use the strats where you sneak past a trainer when they're looking at the opposite direction
11:03:58 <wib_jonas> and I guess you'd lose more inside buildings that have items hidden in sneaky places
11:04:16 <wib_jonas> so yes, it would lose some of the nice parts of a typical pokemon game
11:04:25 <wib_jonas> but I think it might still be worth, there's enough left for a good game,
11:04:53 <wib_jonas> and the game could balance that out with new mechanics specifically helping what it lacks from the medium
11:05:37 <myname> i am interested in a pokemon programming game
11:09:07 <myname> your game wish except with an api that you can call automatically and after the elite 4 matching with another programs result
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12:54:53 <fungot> wib_jonas: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends!
13:07:51 <fizzie> fungot: Are you running something this year?
13:07:52 <fungot> fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered!
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13:29:09 <esowiki> [[DubDubMachine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68667&oldid=63852 * ThisIsTheFoxe * (+0) changed userName
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14:26:34 <arseniiv> fungot: how do you find your new state of mind?
14:26:34 <fungot> arseniiv: but cyrus! are you leaving!
14:27:08 <arseniiv> fungot: don’t worry, I’m here to stay for a while
14:27:09 <fungot> arseniiv: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
14:27:38 <fungot> kspalaiologos: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... you've changed! marle looks so much like leene, that they will take you to your place of execution?! strange, but!?
14:27:45 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
14:27:53 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
14:27:59 <fungot> kspalaiologos: if you are the waste of space and i kept checking for updates weekly but always seeing the " when bruce willis play him...
14:28:26 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
14:28:44 <kspalaiologos> fungot, what do you think about reducing 3-cell brainfuck to 2-counter minsky machine?
14:28:44 <fungot> kspalaiologos: how do you plan to sink a bit more careful about punctuation, capitalization, spelling and grammar gives you more credibility in written communications.)
14:28:58 <arseniiv> isn’t that one what was selected upto a day or so prior?
14:29:12 <arseniiv> fungot: how eso is a Minsky machine?
14:29:12 <fungot> arseniiv: cool. i know it
14:29:13 <fungot> kspalaiologos: sarahbot how old is your mom., so they expect the school has horrible atmosphere and that guy is a nice shorthand for constructing sexps with some variable parts
14:29:30 <arseniiv> fungot: and how eso is a generalized Minsky machine?
14:29:30 <fungot> arseniiv: got it. thanks for the code
14:29:36 <fizzie> It defaults to the 'irc' style, yes.
14:29:48 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
14:30:02 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
14:30:11 <fungot> kspalaiologos: " serpent!" cried alice, dropping the ball of worsted alice had been trying to wind up the rabbit!"
14:30:36 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
14:30:40 <fizzie> Yes, though for whatever reason most of the things I've tried haven't been as successful as the early ones.
14:30:57 <fungot> arseniiv: ya i also i since 1pm lo even worse. he's not around or just still asleep. i thought my dad wouldwake me up up high upon me? but that one shorter. th tuesday is difficultfor us. would watch it tonight bah
14:31:08 <fizzie> 'europarl' is pretty good at being a politician.
14:31:08 <fungot> kspalaiologos: later i finish my psychology lol. i was asking wats up.? wat was ur grade u got for 1 moviebefore april. cant wait to eat xlb first arbo y ask u ma!i always anythin one.if u dun want can cancel it for umah
14:31:20 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
14:31:48 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think of the whole Brexit mess?
14:31:49 <fungot> fizzie: the aim of guaranteeing and seeking a higher standard of living, the deteriorating state of the stocks would still not have been possible if there are spaces in the press, there may have been deluding ourselves in thinking we were stupid. and they secure this by paying commissions to doctors to refer patients to them for having presented and prepared these reports within such a very short period during which it can give
14:32:06 <fizzie> Well, not a great example this time.
14:32:25 <HackEso> 429) <fungot> fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all.
14:32:33 <kspalaiologos> fungot, what do you think about judiciary in Poland?
14:32:33 <fungot> kspalaiologos: mrs fraga, i do not support. i am thinking above all of the cost of the committee on constitutional affairs itself will carefully reconsider this suggestion, which opens up an appalling prospect, not least on article 23, the so-called d'amato legislation. that will be happening. the existing guidelines on the highly important cooperation with ngos in former communist countries, such as fnord, chewing gum and ice
14:33:49 <kspalaiologos> he seems more logical than the EU parlament itself
14:34:59 <HackEso> 499) <fungot> elliott: mr president, commissioner, i fully accept that description when it comes to human rights. yes, with an average fat content of chocolate, and we are using double standards! we all know that under present legislation and also in relation to standardization bodies. if i do not want.
14:35:57 <myname> sounds like loriot's "bundestagsrede"
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14:40:52 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
14:40:53 <fizzie> fungot: Don't let the grid bugs bite.
14:40:53 <fungot> fizzie: touch*stone: " mirror, here i stand. who are you kay's brother. immediately after your birth, merlin the wise brought you to the incautious adventurer who can cause the traveller to feel the runes on a map next time you're not going to win at nethack.
14:41:31 <fizzie> fungot: You can ascend, but do you really ever "win at nethack"?
14:41:31 <fungot> fizzie: they say that a gypsy could tell your fortune for a heavy man, but guided by her image reflected in the dungeon breaking a mirror.
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15:45:30 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68668&oldid=68649 * Hex96 * (+33)
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17:37:51 <imode> wonder if there's any way to parallelize string search/replacement.
17:38:06 <imode> search, probably. replacement, probably not..?
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17:52:11 <zzo38> I also thought that a text-based Pokemon game should be made up; the players could telnet to the server and enter the commands there, which would be shorten such as one character to indicate the attack, or indicating what other command you want such as to shift to another pokemon
17:54:02 <imode> zzo38: but then you miss all the fun of having unique pokemon graphics. :P
17:55:17 <zzo38> Yes, although I have thought of that too actually; some signal could indicate that you want to use JSON communication instead, so in that way, specialized clients would also be possible.
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18:04:02 <zzo38> Someone else also mentioned Spinda. I thought, in the text-based game if your pokemon is Spinda then your opponent can see the personality value (although I am not sure how useful this is).
18:05:54 <zzo38> I suppose gender, ability, and nature might be applicable
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18:36:57 <myname> imode: replacement should be fine in a roe, it may lead to non-deterministic results on overlapping search or search-replace patterns, though
18:42:38 <imode> nondeterministic is fine.
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19:16:10 <esowiki> [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68669&oldid=67944 * CarlosLuna * (+1243) Addind UnaryToDecimal, RomanToUnary and UnaryToRoman examples. Improving Thue-Morse and Fibonacci Examples
19:38:22 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Goldos24 * New user account
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19:56:48 <esowiki> [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68670&oldid=68669 * CarlosLuna * (+852) Adding a compact interpreter in Python and reorganizing the whole section
20:28:01 <kspalaiologos> I've picked up on a project of writing an url shortener in brainfuck
20:28:13 <kspalaiologos> currently I've done some extending work on the brainfuck interpreter to support basic file I/P
20:28:36 <kspalaiologos> and some code to write an entry from key-value dictionary to the database
20:49:32 <esowiki> [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68671&oldid=51098 * CarlosLuna * (+875) Perl implementation simplification proposal
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21:24:39 <zzo38> If you are playing in Constructed mode, then the player would have to define their pokemons ahead of time and then send it. One way to do this would be to create a text file containing what you want, and then to connect and send the file to the server; you will receive a response with any error messages (if any), or else to tell it is OK.
21:24:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68672&oldid=68631 * Goldos24 * (+219) /* Introductions */
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21:38:42 <zzo38> Is there URL shortening service based on compression and not storing the URL in the database?
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23:11:52 <zzo38> Are there C programs other than my own that ever do such things as multiplication by '\1\0' or '\0\1'? On which C compilers does this work and which ones it doesn't work?
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01:31:29 <oerjan> https://xkcd.com/2250/ OKAY
01:38:44 <oerjan> i find this edit a bit disturbing https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/rev/df528347dad2
01:39:24 <HackEso> 12288:2020-01-02 <kspalaiologös> `` cp /hackenv/lib/kps/bfi /hackenv/interps/
01:40:02 <oerjan> wait a minute, did it exist before, or not?
01:40:25 <fizzie> I don't think it did, actually.
01:40:25 <oerjan> apparently not. i guess it's ok then.
01:40:48 <oerjan> the repo browser is misleading
01:41:16 <fizzie> It does kind of break the interps structure a little.
01:41:35 <fizzie> Though it's not the first thing that does.
01:42:45 <fizzie> Arguably the "right" way to integrate with ! would be to put the sources in interps/subdir and, if it needs building, add to interps/Makefile. But nobody cares.
01:44:07 <fizzie> `` ls -l /hackenv/{bin/bfi,interps/bfi,lib/kps/bfi} # I mean, this is a little silly
01:44:12 <HackEso> -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1000 13424 Nov 15 14:11 /hackenv/bin/bfi \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1000 19048 Jan 2 15:22 /hackenv/interps/bfi \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1000 19048 Dec 31 17:47 /hackenv/lib/kps/bfi
01:44:39 <fizzie> The last two are the same, I think the first one might be a much earlier version, and/or a different BF interpreter altogether.
01:45:37 <fizzie> (And then there's interps/egobf/src/egobfiNN, with different genetics.)
01:47:56 <HackEso> 996:2012-12-09 <Gregör> tar xf egobot.tar.xz \ 1073:2012-12-14 <FireFl̈y> glass \ 4791:2014-09-07 <oerjän> interp glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello World!"(_o)o.?]} \ 4909:2014-09-29 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/ulimit/#ulimit/\' interps/gcccomp/gcccomp \ 4916:2014-09-29 <oerjän> sed -i \'47iecho "$GCC" -x "$LANG" "$2" $FLAGS -o /tmp/compiled.$$ 2> /dev/null\' interps/gcccomp/gcccomp \ 4917:2014-09-29 <oerjän> revert \ 4918:2014-09-29 <oerjän> sed -i
01:48:24 <oerjan> hm it was fairly early
01:49:46 <HackEso> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
01:51:13 <oerjan> b_jonas: the EgoBot import weren't quite from the start of HackEgo
01:51:56 <oerjan> (and even the Initial import wasn't quite the start, there was some history squashing at that point.)
01:52:54 <fizzie> My fallible recollection suggests HackEgo and EgoBot coincided for some time, which would mean there wouldn't've been a need for an EgoBot import, because the real thing was around.
01:55:51 <oerjan> i think EgoBot stayed around somewhat after the import too.
02:19:32 <zzo38> Is some people on like to make Magic: the Gathering cards or cards for other kind of card game?
02:24:57 <zzo38> I looked now they added a new function flag SQLITE_INNOCUOUS into SQLite, indicating a function with no side effects and few resources and that it is safe for use in a trigger or view.
02:27:38 <kmc> SQLite: the Gathering
02:29:30 <zzo38> My two messages are independent.
02:30:18 <kmc> but what if they weren't?
02:31:11 <zzo38> Maybe you can make up such a thing anyways; I don't know.
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03:00:39 <oerjan> reading the iwc forum is so much faster after the upgrade now that i found the "unread posts" menu
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03:01:00 <oerjan> which may or may not have always been there
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03:12:16 <esowiki> [[Dotlang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68673&oldid=58153 * Gamer * (+2) /* Control Flow Commands */
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03:30:53 <zzo38> How does the printing work for the printing cards of such card game as Magic: the Gathering and so on?
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04:00:49 <zzo38> I made a list of some of the differences of TeXnicard and MSE: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/wiki?name=Differences+between+TeXnicard+and+MSE
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07:28:25 <zzo38> I saw someone made up this Magic: the Gathering card: {0} Instant ;; Split second I think I had the same idea too. Someone commented "There are many more dignified ways to raise your storm count." but I think storm count is not the point.
07:29:15 <zzo38> There are ways to use split second to your advantage even if the spell has no other effect.
07:31:40 <zzo38> Do you think it is?
08:41:03 <esowiki> [[Ekg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68674&oldid=68651 * JonoCode9374 * (+1580) /* Very WIP Reference List */
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09:35:51 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * JonoCode9374 * moved [[Ekg]] to [[Keta]]: I decided upon a better name
09:36:33 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68677&oldid=68675 * JonoCode9374 * (+3)
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09:49:55 <kspalaiologos> fizzie, the /hackenv/bin interpreter is outdated (v1.1.1 -> v1.2.6)
09:51:37 <kspalaiologos> hackenv/bin -> this is in the path, so asmbf script can work
09:52:13 <kspalaiologos> hackenv/lib/kps -> there are all the binaries, including bfasm, bfpp, bfmake, ...
09:52:29 <kspalaiologos> hackenv/[...]/interps -> you suggested me to put it here :p
10:02:43 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage:Examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68678&oldid=68654 * Lebster * (-1132) deleted page
10:03:02 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68679&oldid=68661 * Lebster * (+1077) merged seperate page
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10:23:00 <Lykaina> i play nylea as my commander
10:24:33 <Lykaina> i think this is the wrong chatroom for mtg
10:29:14 <Lykaina> "nylea, god of the hunt", to be specific
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10:51:45 <zoobab> what is the easiest BF fork to modify, I want to make my own language
10:54:25 <b_jonas> zoobab: if you want to make your own language, do not base it on anything BF-related.
10:55:13 <zoobab> which one do you recommend?
10:55:44 <zoobab> it is more of a joke language
10:56:18 <zoobab> taking the 8 instructions of BF and replacing them with 8 words
10:56:21 <zoobab> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
10:57:22 <zoobab> a bit like Babylang: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Babylang
11:07:11 <myname> zoobab: there should be an entry about "trivial bf replacements" in the wiki
11:07:33 <myname> just do something cooler
11:08:11 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68680&oldid=68677 * JonoCode9374 * (+1) /* DDoouubbllee SSppeeaakk */
11:08:47 <esowiki> [[Keta]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68681&oldid=68680 * JonoCode9374 * (+1) /* N(e(s(t))) a string */
11:10:13 <myname> b_jonas: you _can_ do interesting bf-based languages, though. i like bf2d
11:10:40 <myname> or some of these self modifying variants
11:11:28 <myname> but simply replacing symbols with other symbols is the laest way to do something
11:12:22 <zoobab> no hits for bf2d on the wiki
11:13:19 <myname> http://think-strange.de/stuff/projects/brainfuck2d/
11:13:24 <b_jonas> myname: it's possible, but not recommended
11:14:29 <myname> yeah, if you can come up with something like that, you can probably do better
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11:55:31 <esowiki> [[User:Goldos24]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68682 * Hex96 * (+85) Created page with "Hi there ~~~~."
13:07:50 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68683&oldid=68681 * A * (+149)
13:08:30 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68684&oldid=68683 * A * (-9) Pretend that I'm the author as this is how the article is written
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13:28:34 <fizzie> `` rm /hackenv/bin/bfi; ln -s /hackenv/lib/kps/bfi /hackenv/bin/bfi # no need for actual copies that you can forget to delete though
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13:39:21 <fizzie> And really the interps integration is an alternative, not really an addition. I don't think anything actually uses that copy of 'bfi', since even ibin/asmbf just uses the one in the path.
13:39:35 <fizzie> `` rm /hackenv/interps/bfi
14:01:11 <esowiki> [[User:Goldos24]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68685&oldid=68682 * A * (-85) Editing a userpage seems inappropriate. Please put the message in the talk page instead.
14:05:46 <esowiki> [[Keta]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68686&oldid=68684 * A * (-1) /* Very WIP Reference List */
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16:46:39 <esowiki> [[EE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68687 * Goldos24 * (+6705) Created page with "EE is an [[Esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Goldos24]] and '''MisterJaJo''' in 2019. It is just another fully backwards compatible one-dimensional brainfuck..."
17:23:39 <int-e> fungot: Do you think 3 minutes is a long time?
17:23:40 <fungot> int-e: ptah: known under various names ( nu, neph, cenubis, amen-kneph, khery-bakef), the lord rose and went forth halting; but there were nothing but two areas of blank skin.
17:46:34 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
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17:47:41 <arseniiv> how do you find pineapples, dear fungot?
17:47:41 <fungot> arseniiv: a wand of, *wand: ' i would do it; and a mighty figure with four arms. he is an abundance of food but, trusting his own excavations. ( don quixote of la mancha by miquel de cervantes saavedra)
17:49:04 <arseniiv> today I found out about “session types” from this: https://github.com/dmbarbour/glas-lang/wiki/Why-Session-Types
17:49:27 <arseniiv> don’t know it they’re researched that well?
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18:17:22 <kmc> arseniiv: oh, Rust had that in its very early versions
18:17:49 <kmc> or was that something else
18:18:32 <kmc> maybe i'm confusing it with something else
18:18:42 <kmc> I think session types are just a bit unwieldy to use
18:19:05 <kmc> also there are libraries for various langs
18:19:09 <kmc> which obviates the need for a language feature
18:19:11 <kmc> http://munksgaard.me/papers/laumann-munksgaard-larsen.pdf
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19:11:46 <arseniiv> I’m recently quite into reading articles on extensible variants and records, though do I read them so slow because all other distractions…
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22:48:47 <HackEso> mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare.
22:48:52 <HackEso> Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque)
22:50:07 <b_jonas> `learn Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. mroman created it for finance analysis because the traditionally used K and Dyalog APL are unreadable. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque )
22:50:21 <HackEso> Relearned 'burlesque': Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. mroman created it for finance analysis because the traditionally used K and Dyalog APL are unreadable. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque )
23:24:19 <zzo38> I may need some help to make the templates and so on for TeXnicard, so anyone who is interested in such thing should please to do so.
23:51:45 <zzo38> I remember some time ago someone on here mentioned a data format that you will just store in memory and then read it directly, without having to parse it to make a tree first, and that there is the requirement that it does not start with a valid UTF-8 character. I think the PostScript binary format satisfies this; I made a set of C macros to deal with it.
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01:14:00 <imode> zzo38: I'd love to know what that is.
01:14:11 <imode> unless I was the one that said it..
01:16:46 <b_jonas> a spood is like a snoot but faster
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02:02:33 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68688&oldid=68686 * JonoCode9374 * (+67) Changed A's blurb about why Keta exists fo
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05:05:59 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arkup-nemesis is mediawiki's default diff. He twice punned without noticing it.
05:06:16 <HackEso> HackEso is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike HackEgo.
05:06:32 <HackEso> moony is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moon moon__ noomy computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain.
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05:50:47 <zzo38> How to disable CSS transitions in Firefox?
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06:16:13 <zzo38> Yes, I can do that, but I want to do it globally
06:42:25 <zzo38> Now I implemented the "fillspecial" command in TeXnicard, which can be used to draw translucent shapes on the card. (Other effects may be possible in future, but so far the only implemented effect is the /Opacity effect.)
06:45:09 <zzo38> What is the best way in a C program to send data to an external program and then read the result? I know a few ways, but what is a good way?
06:45:21 <zzo38> (Specifically, a C program on Linux)
06:48:04 <zzo38> What newsgroups/IRC can I see if someone else will be interested in my TeXnicard program?
06:50:49 <zzo38> Why in rogue you cannot strike an opponent standing in a doorway by a diagonal move?
07:16:16 <kingoffrance> i suppose in theory the door would be in the way, but that could go either way
07:16:30 <kingoffrance> and there is no way to query "which way is the door swinging" to my knowledge
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09:22:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: write data to a regular file, popen program for reading and pass the regular file to it as an argument or redirect
09:23:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think the doorway is implicitly in a narrow corridor that you can only exit straight because it doesn't extend to the corner of its square
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10:52:45 <esowiki> [[User:CarlosLuna]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68689&oldid=66112 * CarlosLuna * (+5499) Adding my /// contributions
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13:35:26 <b_jonas> fungot, here are some arrows: ←↑→↓↔↕↤↥↦↧↨⇐⇒⇔
13:35:26 <fungot> b_jonas: trolls are described as rubbery: they keep bouncing back.
13:35:53 <fizzie> fungot: I'm pretty sure you just quoted that verbatim. Try to mix it up, will you?
13:35:53 <fungot> fizzie: eyes of the days of morgoth elves and men usurped the sunlight. then with a wand of polymorph. jackal's heart must never be eaten, for the service he had fled the responsibilities of ruling all that was about all they were, i was going to happen to you, don't step on a diet of metals. they are friendly. ( the immortals, by edith hamilton)
13:36:22 <fizzie> Sounds like a weird book.
13:37:24 <int-e> does unicode have darts?
13:37:46 <HackEso> [U+100D8 LINEAR B IDEOGRAM B254 DART]
13:38:01 <fizzie> `unicode BOW AND ARROW
13:38:07 <HackEso> U+1F3F9 BOW AND ARROW \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8f b9 UTF-16BE: d83cdff9 Decimal: 🏹 \ 🏹 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
13:38:08 <b_jonas> int-e: it has so many arrows (a lot, seriously) that some of them are probably darts
13:38:24 <int-e> b_jonas: But that's the only "dart" I found.
13:38:51 <fizzie> I don't have a bow-and-arrow character, apparently. :/
13:39:35 <b_jonas> int-e: https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-10-22.html#lX
13:39:44 <int-e> Works in firefox... it's one of the abominable colored glyphs.
13:40:15 <int-e> b_jonas: Still no dart.
13:40:27 <fizzie> Looking at gucharmap, I have a really spotty coverage of Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs.
13:41:10 <HackEso> [U+4236 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4236] [U+93E2 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-93E2] [U+9556 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9556]
13:41:30 <b_jonas> fizzie: do you have oren's font loaded?
13:41:46 <HackEso> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
13:41:47 <int-e> Somehow, gucharmap's "match whole word" thinks "dart," is a word.
13:42:36 <fizzie> "TWO SPEECH BUBBLES = chat" "THREE SPEECH BUBBLES = conference"
13:42:48 <int-e> (so "dart" does not find those CJK symbols that have "dart," in their description.)
13:43:03 <int-e> FOUR SPEECH BUBBLES = tower of babel?
13:43:31 <int-e> FIVE SPEECH BUBBLES = social media
13:44:10 <HackEso> [U+1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND] [U+1F5E0 STOCK CHART] [U+1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND] [U+1F4CA BAR CHART]
13:44:20 <fizzie> Heh, "U+1F573 HOLE = portable hole".
13:44:30 <fizzie> I guess it's the character rather than the hole that's portable.
13:44:41 <int-e> fizzie: Bonus points if it's black.
13:45:14 <int-e> Or otherwise bottomless.
13:46:56 <int-e> Is there a Linear B brainfuck clone? I'd imagine that could look kind of cute, especially if you assign several symbols to each operation.
13:47:26 <b_jonas> int-e: do you mean a Learn B trivial brainfuck substitution?
13:47:42 <int-e> b_jonas: Obviously.
13:47:58 <b_jonas> there's probably a generic one that assigns a brainfuck command to a lot of unicode characters
13:48:31 <int-e> Hmm, right, there could be something close to a union-of-all-brainfuck-substitutions.
13:48:39 <int-e> ("close" because there's bound to be overlap)
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15:31:42 <HackEso> [U+F51F - No such unicode character name in database]
15:33:21 <int-e> b_jonas: I missed that you rendered "Linear" as "Learn" earlier... was that an accident?
15:34:03 <b_jonas> int-e: oh... that was an accident
15:34:08 <b_jonas> I don't know why I typed that
15:34:17 <b_jonas> probably "Learn" is more in my hands than "Linear"
15:35:17 <b_jonas> like, yesterday I couldn't type "spiny" first try like ten times, because I kept typing it as "spony" and having to backspace
15:35:27 <b_jonas> because "pony" is a word but "piny" is not
15:38:34 <int-e> Well, brains are weird.
15:43:14 <esowiki> [[Burlesque]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68690&oldid=45225 * B jonas * (+30) https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-12-31.html#lyg "also I used it at work [...] my supervisor was shocked"
15:44:16 <b_jonas> fungot, when does GDQ start?
15:44:16 <fungot> b_jonas: they say that some shopkeepers recognize gems but they are quite difficult to grasp. blood-drinking bestiality, voracious appetites, hunger in search of prey, but, instead of teeth; it is saint peter's holy day. if that event takes place, perhaps it was only a humanoid creature can be a now dry little watercourse. bilbo was a time xans would never scratch your boots.
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16:18:31 <fizzie> Handy, they've added a "detected as X" note to the "all times are converted to your local time" message in the schedule page.
16:19:10 <fizzie> Now if they could only this time around shade the blocks in the past, highlight the currently running one, put a red line where we're now, or *something* like that.
16:27:58 <b_jonas> fizzie: is that about the GDQ schedule?
16:34:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: but GDQ is sponsored by twitch, so they must go for webpages that are so heavy with client-side scripts that they're impossible to load in anything but a modern computer, even though other pages can show better quality videos easily on the same computer
16:35:01 <b_jonas> it wouldn't be twitch-like otherwise
16:35:18 <b_jonas> a simple server-side addition of a red line marking the current time wouldn't cut it
16:35:28 <b_jonas> it has to load a huge javascript library
16:36:51 <b_jonas> also, why don't the bash builtins pushd and popd have a single-letter switch to quiet their normal output?
16:38:04 <kspalaiologos> https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/51423495#51423495
16:38:05 <fizzie> The client-side local time conversion is pretty light. I mean, discounting jQuery.
16:38:21 <kspalaiologos> looks like our evil villain was there all the time :p
16:39:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: they have to add more stuff to that schedule page then
16:39:50 <b_jonas> dunno, mouseover popups to show the donation choices
16:40:51 <b_jonas> or just no functionality, just loading and constructing the page content in javascript
16:41:47 <fizzie> Oh, is Twitch owned by Amazon? I didn't know that.
16:41:59 <b_jonas> fizzie: dunno but that seems likely
16:42:38 <fizzie> I was seeing all these "Subscribed with Twitch Prime" things, and thought they'd just copied the name, but apparently it's actually an Amazon subsidiary.
16:43:37 <b_jonas> fizzie: the Twitch Prime thing means that if you subscribe for Amazon Prime and pair your Amazon account with the Twitch account, you get some "free" stuff on Twitch
16:43:49 <b_jonas> twitch advertises that very agressively
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17:10:13 <b_jonas> `8-ball I can't find my gloves. Should I unpack the mess from the shelf where they're supposed to be?
17:17:38 <b_jonas> 8-ball: you're right, they were there. I found three and a half pairs
17:18:22 <b_jonas> well sure, if you want, implement it in Java
17:30:12 <b_jonas> if you like Java then sure, it's probably fine for this purpose
17:30:37 <b_jonas> I guess it's better than implementing an URL shortener in brainfuck
17:30:41 <HackEso> Concentrate and ask again.
17:31:00 <b_jonas> Java is a much better choice than brainfuck for this
17:31:15 <b_jonas> and we have a bot implemented in befunge
17:31:47 <b_jonas> and mroman mentioned that he should implement blsqbot in blsq
17:32:11 <b_jonas> and NotJack implemented a J evaluator bot in J
17:32:37 <kspalaiologos> . o O (soon: and kspalaiologos implemented a Brainfuck bot in Brainfuck)
17:32:47 <b_jonas> heck, I implemented my IRC bots in ruby 1.8, that's actually a worse choice than Java too
17:33:39 <b_jonas> it seemed like a good idea at the time
17:34:22 <b_jonas> (actually back then they were started in ruby 1.6, but I ported them to 1.8 later)
17:34:44 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: the problem with a brainfuck bot in brainfuck is that a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck might be slow
17:35:10 <b_jonas> you don't need much performance for just the IRC part
17:35:10 <kspalaiologos> and if it's too slow I can compile the brainfuck to optimized C
17:36:00 <fizzie> The zemhill of the underscores is done in Ruby too.
17:36:27 <b_jonas> but for the brainfuck part, your goal was that it should be able to run programs that take more time than what fungоt is willing to run
17:37:09 <b_jonas> and FireFly eventually ported jevalbot to ruby 2.something
17:38:52 <FireFly> I don't know ruby, and changed a handful of things it complained about to get it running (like 3-4 places or so)
17:39:47 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: it used to be a decent language, but it's old and maintained in the wrong way just like perl is
17:40:09 <kspalaiologos> quicksort=: (($:@(<#[), (=#[), $:@(>#[)) ({~ ?@#)) ^: (1<#)
17:40:13 <FireFly> APLs are very handy as ridiculously owerful calculators
17:40:44 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: I think that expression is not something that people seriously write, it's just something people write to show off how ugly J is. there's a builtin sort operation.
17:41:10 <kspalaiologos> kingoffrance, let me show you my 50 entry PPCG Malbolge repo
17:41:11 <FireFly> well, it's a combination of being used to read it, of formatting/clarity, and of choosing a reasonable example
17:41:37 <FireFly> I mean you can point at IOCCC and complain that C is a ridiculous language (which, well, wouldn't be the wrong conclusion, but...)
17:41:53 <FireFly> Honestly, I mostly use J as a ridiculously powerful calculator
17:42:31 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: have you written quicksort in other languages, and doesn't it also look bad?
17:42:49 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: that's also not something that people would write
17:42:57 <FireFly> There's many ways to implement fibonacci, and that one is one of the less natural ones in J
17:43:04 <b_jonas> it's one of the worst ones
17:43:13 <b_jonas> just try running it with 100 as the argument
17:43:17 <FireFly> it's a bit like insisting on writing an imperative solution in Haskell, instead of a functional one
17:43:44 <FireFly> have you seen the Dyalog APL video on Game of Life?
17:43:58 <FireFly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4
17:44:03 <b_jonas> it's like fibo 1 = 1; fibo 2 = 1; fibo k = fibo (k - 1) + fibo (k - 2); would you actually write that in Haskell?
17:44:07 <FireFly> (APL and J are similar enough that the concepts translate
17:44:36 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: what? not even the 2 in the middle, which is used to subtract 2 from the index?
17:44:47 <b_jonas> or the - which is used to do that subtraction?
17:45:44 <b_jonas> oh right, a better analog in Haskell would be a stupid pointfree one
17:46:06 <b_jonas> with Applicative <*> and whatnot inside, so you can claim that it subtracts <&> from <*> or however that works
17:46:54 <b_jonas> but I'm not fluent in Haskell to write that
17:47:16 <kingoffrance> kspalaiologos, its not the bottle of poison labelled poison you have to worry about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar19vwtxEKs youd have to convince me your code comes dressed as a goddess and then morphs into death; malbolge i dont think makes any illusions about rescuing people :)
17:48:08 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: "Python" is labeled as poisonous too
17:48:35 <kspalaiologos> <s> it's called JavaScript we know it can't be good </s>
17:49:41 <b_jonas> yes, I know it's a stupid example because pythons are actually constricting, not venomous
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19:24:46 <int-e> I'm confused; 700 bytes is small.
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19:28:16 <zzo38> Yes, but it is a lot for Hello World
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19:36:35 <kspalaiologos> 300 bytes for xlat's, 100 bytes for crazyop table and 9 powers,
19:36:58 <kspalaiologos> yet the xlat's are stored in rcl/sto memory region
19:37:13 <kspalaiologos> and due to my stupidness, it's size is multiplied by two
19:37:38 <kspalaiologos> but the +300 overhead is constant for all the programs
19:42:30 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68691&oldid=68079 * OsmineYT * (+19)
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20:57:31 <zzo38> Now TeXnicard is able to use a code such as: 100 100 setpagesize /Courier 10 selectfont 20 30 moveto (Hello) show << /Opacity 0.5 >> seteffect 1 0 0 setrgbcolor newpath 20 20 moveto 20 40 lineto 40 30 lineto fillspecial In interactive mode, you must put . at the beginning to indicate that it is a PostScript code, and then the next line you can write ^0 to make a preview.
20:58:07 <zzo38> The quality of the text rendering isn't very good, but I would later add the ability to use TeX fonts, and then it will be good.
20:58:26 <zzo38> Also, are there any other effects other than opacity that you think would be useful to implement in here?
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21:04:18 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sholus * New user account
21:12:39 <b_jonas> ooh! Super Monkey Ball is finally back to GDQ! And this time it's warpless
21:16:56 <b_jonas> nice! Super Mario World one mind 11 exit coop. that will be worth to see.
21:21:39 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68692&oldid=68672 * Sholus * (+169) /* Introductions */
21:34:09 <b_jonas> someone pointed out how the D&D rules imply that it's practically impossible to see the Sun and the Moon, because the bonus you get to see large objects is logarithmic in their size, but the penalty for seeing distant objects is linear in the distant
21:35:48 <zzo38> O, then better rules should be written, I suppose.
21:41:51 <b_jonas> the penalty is -1 point per 10 feet of distance, so it's too high even if you choose to apply only the -3333 points for the 10 kilometers of the atmosphere
21:46:43 <zzo38> GURPS rules is different; there is adjustments for both distance and for size; 3 yards is 1, 100 yards is 10, 100 miles is 30, etc; you add for size and subtract for distance. (If it is smaller than 2 yards then there is also a penalty for size.)
21:47:21 <zzo38> These same numbers are used for ranged attacks (such as arrows, guns, spit poison, etc)
21:49:10 <zzo38> These seem to be better than D&D, but I don't know if better rules could be made. I think what they did wrong with the GURPS is they have a table but failed to mention the equation which generates the table.
21:55:07 <b_jonas> how much is the penalty for 8 miles?
22:01:43 <b_jonas> that doesn't seem bad. and how much bonus do you add to that for an object of 116 meters diameter, which is about how large the moon looks like at that distance
22:04:39 <b_jonas> in D&D, you get +4 bonus for every power of two that the object is larger than a human
22:04:41 <zzo38> But probably the full size should be used and not only the apparent size
22:05:24 <b_jonas> the diameter of the Moon is 3.5 megameters
22:05:26 <zzo38> GURPS also has penalties for darkness, from -1 to -9, or no penalty if it is bright.
22:06:08 <b_jonas> that makes sense, and it might matter for the Sun
22:06:48 <zzo38> It also says there is a bonus of +10 to spot something in plain sight (such as seeing a car is coming toward you on the road).
22:07:46 <b_jonas> that may apply if there are no clouds
22:07:58 <b_jonas> or no clouds covering the Moon or Sun at least
22:09:37 <b_jonas> and the Sun or Moon is above the horizon
22:12:30 <zzo38> Yes, I think that makes sense.
22:41:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mikadio * New user account
22:52:44 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68693&oldid=68692 * Mikadio * (+263)
22:55:04 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Contest 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68694&oldid=67306 * Mikadio * (+145)
23:37:46 <zzo38> Would it be work to use pipe() to create a pipe and then use popen() and pass the other end of the pipe using /proc/.../fd/ files?
23:47:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's usually a bad idea, because you can deadlock yourself when both your program and the other program are blocked on a write with a full pipe
23:47:53 <b_jonas> so it only works if you use an event loop or something to check for when the read pipe is readable and when the write pipe is writable
23:47:59 <b_jonas> and read or write respectively
23:48:09 <b_jonas> it can be done, but in most cases it's not worth, unless you really need interactivity
23:48:40 <zzo38> O, yes, that is right. Is there some other way that you need not make a disk file?
23:49:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: make a file in a tmp file system and have no swap?
23:49:50 <b_jonas> usually I don't think it's worth to avoid creating files
23:49:57 <b_jonas> unless you tell why you really need that
23:50:26 <zzo38> I don't want to prevent swap, only to not add a file into the system.
23:50:39 <zzo38> (It is up to the operating system to decide whether or not to swap out)
23:50:49 <b_jonas> like for ugly privacy requirements where you want to limit what attackers can do if they can get physical access to your computer or root access after your program has finished
23:51:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: then just create a file on a tmpfs
23:52:34 <b_jonas> but if you really want, you can use an event loop and handle both the read and write pipes, buffering everything in memory
23:52:46 <b_jonas> just make sure to read all the data you can from the read pipe, even if you don't yet need it
23:52:57 <zzo38> I don't know much about tmpfs, but perhaps that would work
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23:53:36 <b_jonas> or you can spawn a separate thread or process for one end of the pipe if you want to waste more resources than a file
23:53:58 <b_jonas> but generally, if you don't need interactivity, just use a file
23:54:30 <zzo38> My computer says that /run is tmpfs
23:54:41 <b_jonas> if the input data is really short and the process you're spawning is suitable, you may be able to pass all the data in argv
23:56:20 <zzo38> Wikipedia says that tmpfs is used on /tmp but I do not see that on my computer.
23:57:02 <b_jonas> no, it's usually not on /tmp , though it is in some setups
23:57:12 <b_jonas> but you can mount any number of them
23:57:45 <b_jonas> basically it's just a file system that stores all its data in the file system caches, and never flushes those caches
23:59:11 <b_jonas> plus some extra magic so you can customize how much (virtual) memory it can consume and give ENOSPC when you try to consume more
23:59:25 <b_jonas> the data it uses can be swapped out
23:59:42 <b_jonas> if you have swaps set up, obviously
00:00:09 <b_jonas> it's a "new" thing, in the sense that it became used during the time I've been using linux
00:01:17 <b_jonas> earlier we only had ordinary file systems backed on ramdisks, which are like flat virtual devices that are stored in the (virtual) memory, swappable, but then the kernel has to do most of the work that it would have to do to represent the file system on a (very fast) flat block device
00:01:18 <zzo38> Specifically the data I want the external program to read is a blob in a SQLite database; maybe I should have mentioned that at first.
00:01:29 <b_jonas> so tmpfs is more efficient
00:02:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: but what does the program that you spawn do with its input and output?
00:03:00 <zzo38> Converts it into a different format.
00:03:33 <b_jonas> are the input and output very large? do you need interactivity, that is, do you want to get part of the output while you're still streaming the input?
00:03:41 <b_jonas> and what do you do with the output?
00:03:51 <zzo38> (And actually it isn't the entire blob; a few bytes at the beginning will be skipped, and this number may vary.)
00:04:51 <zzo38> The input and output are potentially large, because it is a picture of the art in a card (e.g. the art box in a Magic: the Gathering card).
00:04:55 <b_jonas> also is the sql database in a file that is slow to read, and do you want to be able to stop reading early in case of an error?
00:05:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: just small vs large doesn't matter (unless it's so small that you just pass it in the argv), I'm asking if it can be very large
00:05:37 <zzo38> It might be very large if you are printing at a high resolution.
00:06:19 <zzo38> The SQL database is already open by the main program (TeXnicard; maybe telling it is TeXnicard is also useful to you I don't know)
00:07:17 <b_jonas> I'd probably just write the input data to a temporary regular file on a fast file system. if you can conveniently pass file descriptors to the program that you spawn, then unlink the file and pass just a file descriptor, that way if something goes wrong it's less likely that you have the temp file file remain on the disk.
00:08:16 <b_jonas> you usually don't even need an actual tmpfs, if you don't have security requirements, because if everything fits in memory and you delete the file soon then the file won't leave the cache, and if it doesn't fit in memory then writing it out to the disk is a feature,
00:08:48 <b_jonas> but if you have a fast swap device and no readily accessible file system on the fast device and no file system cache on the fast device, then you may want a tmpfs anyway
00:08:55 <b_jonas> but that's not a common configuration these days
00:09:56 <b_jonas> linux can now even handle the case when you store the file system on a slower rotating disk but cache it on a large SSD, because this is getting a commonly useful case
00:10:10 <b_jonas> you have to configure it well, and I don't know the details, but I hear it's working well
00:10:19 <zzo38> I didn't know it has that, but I thought of that too.
00:10:52 <b_jonas> that need not be true if you're using old operating system software though, but then you likely won't have a fast SSD
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00:11:36 <b_jonas> I don't really know what happens on Windows, I deliberately avoid all system administration responsibilities for Windows and don't want to learn more than I really need for my job
00:11:57 <b_jonas> i.e. I don't work in system administration, but I need to administer my work desktop a bit to just use it for work
00:12:31 <zzo38> I could write the data from the database to an external file and then pass that to the external program and then read back the output into memory, I suppose, since the output is likely to be larger than the input, but then that requires making a copy of the data
00:12:53 <b_jonas> what will you do with the output?
00:12:59 <b_jonas> will you send it to a printer?
00:15:14 <zzo38> It will be combined with an in-memory picture
00:15:23 <b_jonas> I think this case hasn't come up for me, because I always just had the compressed image or video data stored in a disk file, and the raw data in memory going through a pipe
00:16:37 <b_jonas> in one case the uncompressed data was also in a disk file, but in a format that I had to decode in my program (not sqlite specifically), but even then the other side, the compressed data went to disk files
00:20:18 <zzo38> In my case the compressed data is in a SQLite database rather than a file by itself, and there should not be any need to store the uncompressed data in any file. The blob starts with a flag byte and then the MIME type (omitting "image/" if it belongs to that category, otherwise the full MIME type) and then the data in the format specified by the MIME type, and the configuration file specifies how to decode it.
00:21:08 <b_jonas> and I presume the same database contains other metadata over just the images
00:21:19 <b_jonas> which is why you don't just store the compressed image in a separate file
00:23:24 <zzo38> Yes, that is true.
00:23:56 <zzo38> And that is why it isn't stored in a separate file.
00:30:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: if you want to eg. send the uncompressed data to the printer, you can consider trying to not send that data through your process, so that your process only send ths compressed image to the forked process, and then the convereted output from that process is sent to whatever program does the printing
00:31:56 <b_jonas> then you don't need any non-blocking things
00:32:09 <b_jonas> but it's also not too hard to handle the two pipes in a select loop if you really need to
00:32:32 <zzo38> That picture is not the entire card, though, but only a part of it. And there is no guarantee that there will not be other stuff overlapping, or other things done to it before the page is completed.
00:33:21 <zzo38> (This program is meant to render cards for card games such as Magic: the Gathering; like MSE but different.)
00:33:47 <b_jonas> zzo38: and you want to process that uncompressed data together with some other data you read from the database, which is why you want it in the same process?
00:34:42 <b_jonas> well, then either write something to a temporary file (that you unlink when you no longer need), or use a select loop to read and write the pipe in an unknown order
00:35:04 <b_jonas> if you need both sides from the same process then that's mostly what you can do
00:35:42 <b_jonas> though for some converters, you may be sure that it won't start writing even a header before it completely reads its input, in which case you can just write the input to the pipe and then read the output, without select or nonblocking
00:35:59 <b_jonas> that can depend on the converter and its options
00:36:05 <zzo38> Yes, OK. Probably I will just copy the data from the database to a temporary file when doing it, I suppose; that seems to be easily enough.
00:36:25 <zzo38> Yes, about what you said about the converter is true, but such thing is not known by this program
00:37:18 <b_jonas> of course another possibility is to also put the converter in the same process
00:37:30 <b_jonas> which I could do with ImageMagick in particualr
00:37:50 <b_jonas> because it has some dynamic libraries and documented interfaces
00:38:30 <b_jonas> I think those allow reading compressed image streams from in memory, though I haven't actually tried that
00:38:46 <zzo38> Yes, although I am not even knowing if it is a format supported by ImageMagick or not, for one thing.
00:39:08 <b_jonas> even for embedding, I read/wrote the compressed image from/to disk files, I just manipulated the uncompressed image data in memory of the same process
00:39:39 <zzo38> (I can easily change how it communicates with the external program later if needed, I suppose.)
00:40:41 <b_jonas> sure, but you can do this with some libraries other than ImageMagick too
00:41:23 <b_jonas> there are good reasons for that, beacuse ImageMagick doesn't natively support everything
00:42:57 <zzo38> The way I have though, the user can install only the ones they need, rather than needing to add all of the dependencies that you don't use
00:42:59 <b_jonas> though you can also do conversion to a more convenient image format when you're importing to the database, and later read that convenient (but still compressed) input format with ImageMagick
00:44:19 <b_jonas> this can happen if you scan or photograph the card, but then preprocess the image and store the cleaned up image in the database as a jpeg
00:46:31 <b_jonas> that's when you can also rotate and crop and color correct the scan/photo, not just convert formats
00:46:40 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose that can also work, although then I wouldn't need to support more than one format inside the process (since conversion from any other format can be done before importing into the database), but JPEG is probably not a good choice in this case because JPEG is lossy.
00:47:29 <zzo38> (Also, the picture is not necessarily RGB and it might be CMYK instead.)
00:47:35 <b_jonas> you can still have more than one formats, since ImageMagick handles multiple formats with a natively built in decoder
00:48:00 <b_jonas> ImageMagick abstracts away some of those format differences
00:49:27 <zzo38> Probably only the artwork of the card would be stored in the database; the border pictures would be in external files.
00:49:47 <b_jonas> that doesn't change much of what I said
00:50:04 <b_jonas> mind you, these days there are too many cards with art extending outside the borders that you might not want to do that
00:50:18 <b_jonas> for the inner and middle borders that is
00:50:36 <b_jonas> you can do it with the outer black (or white) border, except for Un-sets
00:51:37 <b_jonas> but if you're assembling your own cards from art that you have, then you might store different elements of the card separately
00:51:38 <zzo38> Whether or not the art extends outside of the border wouldn't be built into the program anyways, since that stuff can be controlled by templates.
00:52:03 <zzo38> Have you used Magic Set Editor?
00:52:22 <b_jonas> one image for the art box, one image for the inner and middle border and text box, one for the text box watermark, and some for mana symbols
00:53:11 <b_jonas> I haven't created physical custom Magic cards, except simple proxies by putting a handwritten slip of paper next to the card inside the sleeve
00:54:39 <zzo38> Different elements of the card would be stored separately, some stuff (specific to these individual cards and the set) in the database, and other stuff (applicable to any cards) in the template.
00:57:36 <zzo38> If you are interested in TeXnicard then you should probably join the newsgroups of it. Also, for mana symbols I would probably want to use fonts instead (MSE uses pictures for the mana symbols, but I think to use fonts for the mana symbols will be better).
00:58:23 <b_jonas> sure, if you have a font that contains all forty-something mana symbols, then that can work
00:58:43 <b_jonas> plus the tap and untap symbol
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01:12:26 <zzo38> Do you think some special effects other than opacity might be needed?
01:32:27 <Lykaina> do we discuss magic the gathering in here?
01:33:36 <Lykaina> my usual irc channel for it is inactive atm
01:36:04 <zzo38> This channel isn't mainly for Magic: the Gathering, but sometimes we will discuss anything including Magic: the Gathering if there isn't the esoteric programming to discuss at the time, I suppose.
01:36:22 <zzo38> Do you like to make up custom Magic: the Gathering cards?
01:37:12 <Lykaina> https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nylea-based-mono-g/
01:37:40 <Lykaina> that was the question i asked
01:39:00 <zzo38> I don't know much about looking if a deck is good or not.
01:41:02 <Lykaina> oh shit...i have more than 1 of a card and the format is edh
01:43:20 <zzo38> Oops, yes you are correct, you have 2x Ripjaw Raptor
01:43:31 <zzo38> That won't do, so you will have to change it
01:47:05 <zzo38> I also invented a file format for deck lists
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01:55:03 <zzo38> Here is a file using that format: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/decks/making_enemies.deck
01:55:31 <zzo38> For the commander, use a [COMMAND] block.
01:55:45 <zzo38> (The <DECK1> and <DECK2> are not needed if it is a single deck.)
01:56:07 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Contest 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68695&oldid=68694 * Mikadio * (-28) /* Code that actually works as required */
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02:10:53 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Contest 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68696&oldid=68695 * Mikadio * (-3) /* Code that actually works as required */
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04:02:03 <imode> if you build a tool, and it has no purpose, what's the point of the tool?
04:06:09 <\oren\> should I rewrite my font editor in Rust?
04:08:18 <imode> what's the purpose?
04:37:42 <\oren\> it has a memory leak and I can't find it
04:38:05 <\oren\> if I rewrite it in rust, that is supposed to mean it can't have memory leaks
04:38:11 <zzo38> What font formats does it use?
04:38:34 <zzo38> What is it written in now?
04:38:49 <zzo38> OK. Did you publish it?
04:43:59 <zzo38> I have read of use of farbfeld compressed with bzip2 for picture compression. However, if a picture is in JPEG format then it seem JPEG is a better compression, but farbfeld compressed with bzip2 will be a better compression than PNG in some cases.
04:44:29 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters_tools.tar
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04:56:02 <zzo38> What transformations can be done to improve JPEG compression without being more lossy?
04:56:16 <zzo38> (Assuming the file that you are trying to transform is already JPEG)
05:10:15 <imode> how do I build this?
05:11:20 <imode> and do you have a sample file?
05:11:39 <imode> built it, now I need a sample file.
05:16:50 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters.bdf
05:17:39 <zzo38> You could also try pcf2bdf
05:18:37 <\oren\> oh and it also need s UnicodeData.txt from the unicode foundation
05:18:52 <imode> mind linking me that?
05:19:35 <\oren\> (this is how it displays the names) https://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/UnicodeData.txt
05:20:04 <imode> how do I exit the editor?
05:20:24 <\oren\> or ctrl-X to exit without saving
05:21:32 <imode> interesting, yeah that's quite the memory leak. let's see if you clean up your allocated space.
05:21:46 <zzo38> What if you want to make a non-Unicode font though? Then the Unicode data is not applicable.
05:21:55 <imode> it looks like you never clean up the file judging by the size of the leak. the input BDF was ~3mb.
05:22:43 <imode> 4,347,372 bytes allocated and in-use at exit, but no double frees.
05:23:30 <\oren\> fix that and then see if it still has a leak
05:24:24 <imode> I'm not that far in but I don't see any buffer cleanup, yeah.
05:26:26 <imode> when you load the font, you `malloc` quite a bit of stuff and attach it to the passed-in bdfinfo, but I don't see you freeing it.
05:26:42 <\oren\> I guess I kinda forgot that valgrind can't tell the difference between things still accessable at exit and things that have "actually" leaked
05:26:45 <imode> that plus a calloc and no free.
05:27:04 <imode> yeah you haven't lost the references to anything, you just haven't cleaned up the stuff you have references to.
05:27:44 <imode> you `calloc` a big ol' hunk of space for some glyphs but you never free them.
05:29:48 <imode> this is if you just load a font file, save and close. I imagine if you open another, you'll do the same allocations and lose the previous references.
05:29:57 <zzo38> I think valgrind can tell you which one is "lost", though.
05:30:55 <\oren\> yeah apparently I'm bad at know what valgrind is saying
05:33:01 <\oren\> I thought it meant I actually lost reference to that much
05:33:11 <imode> nah, just means it's in use at exit.
05:33:22 <imode> you'll see that with SDL and a couple of other libs.
05:36:32 <\oren\> I'm going to work on making these tools more flexible and possible to work on fonts with different dimensions
05:37:06 <imode> I dig the editing aesthetic. a lot of the glyphs are broken for me though.
05:37:52 <\oren\> Well it relies on my fon't particular method of displaying braille to look good
05:38:02 <imode> oh no the braile works great.
05:38:17 <imode> this is garbage on my screen, though: "𝔅𝔇𝔉𝕖𝕕𝕚𝕥"
05:38:42 <imode> too compressed I guess.
05:41:56 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/GKQKGJG
05:42:37 <imode> ah yeah, I can kinda see the edit part. capitals are just totally gone, though. my terminal is trying lmao.
05:42:38 <\oren\> it says BDF in fraktur and edit in blackboard bold
05:43:41 <\oren\> In my font, bold fraktur I gave up on and I made it uncial instead
05:43:50 <imode> looks solid on that screen.
05:45:39 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/yCgc3Kv I like how the unicode consortium added all these but then was like, full superscript and subscript alphabets? that's too far
05:46:23 <imode> unicode doesn't have those? wtf.
05:47:49 <\oren\> superscript small q, large C, Q, S, X, Y, Z are all that is missing for superscript
05:48:29 <zzo38> I made up a better character set for the specific use of being used on a fix pitch text grid, such as on a terminal emulator.
05:48:29 <\oren\> ᵃᵇᶜᵈᵉᶠᵍʰⁱʲᵏˡᵐⁿᵒᵖ ʳˢᵗᵘᵛʷˣʸᶻ
05:48:46 <imode> why the hell are they missing?!
05:49:06 <imode> what do they have against q, C, Q, S, X, Y and Z?
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05:49:24 <\oren\> there was a big argument on the Unicode mailing list about it
05:49:47 <\oren\> and basically the rasoning was, unicode isn't supposed to be used for formatting
05:50:01 <imode> that reasoning is bullshit.
05:50:22 <imode> isn't there a character reversal glyph.
05:50:42 <zzo38> Unicode is very messy, and is equally bad for all uses.
05:51:42 <zzo38> However, it does have the advantage of being compatible with ASCII, at least.
05:51:46 <imode> yeah, bullshit, there's many, many, _many_ cases where unicode makes explicit statements about how a thing should be formatted. if that was a disagreement, the super and subscript forms shouldn't even be included, not this half measure.
05:54:23 <zzo38> Do you like my terminal character coding? (It is not meant to be used for other purposes, though; but there may be other character sets useful for the other purposes.)
05:54:38 <imode> I don't know your terminal character coding.
05:54:41 <\oren\> I have it on my todo list to add all the missing ones in hthe PUA in my font
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05:57:11 <zzo38> This is so far: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/utce Some stuff may be changed if needed
05:57:42 <zzo38> Some of these characters are also in Unicode but also many isn't.
05:58:20 <zzo38> (And in some cases, it does correspond to a Unicode character but the width may differ or the way different characters are distinguished may differ from Unicode.)
06:00:03 <\oren\> yeah width is really messy in unicode and one of the goals of my font is to be the only large font that actually has correct width as defined in Unicode Standard Annex #11 East Asian Width
06:00:56 <\oren\> becuase no other font maker seems to care, and in particular, GNU unifont has wide devanagari which is stupid
06:01:44 <\oren\> GNU unifont totally ignores the fact that nearly all terminals use the annex #11 for width data
06:03:02 <zzo38> I think what I did is better though.
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06:04:11 <zzo38> (I also think that each program should do one thing well, which is the UNIX philosophy; in this case though it is the character set/coding rather than a program, but still that is what it is. This one does specifically terminal character coding. For other purposes, use something else.)
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06:06:04 <\oren\> the main goal of my font is to display unicode correctly and more-or-less biguously in a terminal
06:06:49 <zzo38> O, OK. Well, then you have it good for that. But I think that Unicode is the wrong character set for this purpose.
06:07:19 <zzo38> Also, the word "biguously" is not in Wiktionary (nor is "biguous").
06:10:36 <\oren\> I use biguous because unambiguous seems like a double negative
06:34:24 <kingoffrance> well, that makes my charset madness sound less insane, so good work zzo38 i agree
07:11:28 <zzo38> Ghostscript includes a file viewjpeg.ps to print a JPEG file. In the comments where it says the author's address, I found a quine in PostScript.
07:14:06 <zzo38> (Also, it doesn't take the JPEG file name as a command line argument, even though Ghostscripts supports that. It is easily enough to fix it so that it does, though.)
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07:52:18 <esowiki> [[Backhand]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68697&oldid=68472 * Jo King * (+141) added links to interpreter
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08:29:48 <ArthurStrong> Interestingly, can simulated annealing be used for PCB routing?
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08:35:03 <zzo38> Maybe; I don't know.
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10:33:05 <int-e> http://apt.cs.manchester.ac.uk/projects/tools/mucs-pcb/ explicitly mentions simulated annealing.
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10:45:34 <wib_jonas> Lykaina: sometimes this channel talk about esoteric aspects of Magic: the Gathering. In particular, ais523 presented two attempts at proving M:tG Turing complete, in the sense that you can transform any computation to a game that terminates iff the computation terminates.
10:47:28 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68698&oldid=68512 * JonoCode9374 * (+206) /* Getting one of my languages on the random language button */
10:47:36 <wib_jonas> See https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:StackFlow , there's one attempt to proof based on the StackFlow language, which has a bug that we couldn't fix;
10:48:07 <wib_jonas> then there's a later attempt of proof based on a simpler computation model, The Waterfall Model, where the problem hinges on compiling universal computation to a small enough Waterfall Model program
10:51:02 <wib_jonas> This latter one is believed to prove at least Turing completeness, and ais523 details it in an article linked from there.
10:52:00 <wib_jonas> I wonder if you can get more than Turing completeness if you take the rules for breaking infinite loops literally.
10:55:11 <int-e> wtf. '721.1a The rules for taking shortcuts are largely informal. As long as each player in the game understands the intent of each other player, any shortcut system they use is acceptable.'
10:55:59 <int-e> That gives you a lot of leeway when it comes to TC-ness... by choosing sufficiently well-informed players.
10:57:10 <int-e> Oh. 712.1c says tournaments are different :/
10:57:27 <wib_jonas> Actually the article is based on a different construction
10:57:35 <wib_jonas> one that doesn't use Hungary Lynx and Noxious Ghoul
11:04:22 <int-e> The tournament version of shortcuts is sufficiently fun.
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11:18:07 <int-e> Ah, spoilsports: "Non-deterministic loops (loops that rely on decision trees, probability or mathematical convergence) may not be shortcut."
11:34:04 <kspalaiologos> I (possibly) made a Malbolge interpreter in Malbolge
11:46:15 <Taneb> As in, to find ever-busier beavers?
11:46:18 <Taneb> Not to my knowlege
11:48:35 <kspalaiologos> that requires more gigabytes of memory than there are atoms in universe
11:52:09 <Taneb> Then that's not very interesting
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12:17:57 <int-e> http://www.logique.jussieu.fr/~michel/bbc.html has some pertinent numbers
12:22:26 <Taneb> It looks like you can require more memory than there are atms in the universe with 2 symbols and 7 states
12:25:06 <int-e> Or 6 states, unless you compress the tape (assuming the tape is compressible... which seems likely since we do have a termination proof)
12:27:26 <int-e> (going by the 10^78 to 10^82 estimate for the number of atoms in the universe, with a very generous margin for error.)
12:29:46 <int-e> Of course the tape is very compressible if you accept a description of the form "tape after executing the TM M for n steps, starting from an empty tape".
13:16:26 <kspalaiologos> << In Haskell, we don't talk about immutability. We talk about cytoendohygrobimorphisms in the category of endobiditricomanifolds and other elementary constructs. >>
13:17:35 <HackEso> A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
13:18:33 <HackEso> /hackenv/wisdom/zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
13:19:17 <kspalaiologos> the definition in our Polish wiki used to look like verses summoning satan
13:19:17 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: https://wiki.haskell.org/Zygohistomorphic_prepromorphisms
13:20:23 <wib_jonas> Unfortunately, no one can explain what a monad is. You have to see it for yourself.
13:21:18 <kspalaiologos> or other language I'm at least barely familliar with
13:22:00 <int-e> kspalaiologos: https://willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html seems somewhat relevant.
13:22:56 <wib_jonas> I have my own factorial definition at http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/Bin.hs
13:26:24 <int-e> Monads in C... I suppose you can come up with some programming patterns, in a similar spirit as OO in C. But I wouldn't expect any benefit from going that route, just obfuscation.
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13:27:40 <int-e> OO gives you associated namespaces for your types.
13:28:13 <kspalaiologos> so you don't have a global state, but rather it's simplified down to object instances
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13:28:43 <int-e> ("OO gives you namespaces for types" of course is the one benefit that you lose instantly when encoding it in C)
13:29:07 <kspalaiologos> if two objects instances mutate (send a message) to certain single object, you lose the benefit of encapsulation
13:29:39 <int-e> I really liked OO for MUD programming.
13:30:20 <int-e> So you have monsters as objects, players as objects, things you carry around as objects, rooms as objects... it's mostly very tangible.
13:30:43 <kspalaiologos> look at linux source code and how the drivers are implemented
13:30:51 <int-e> "you can do this in C" is not a valid argument
13:31:18 <kspalaiologos> it would be as comfortable when done procedurally as the example you're giving
13:31:35 <int-e> It's basically a tautology. (You can program it in C, or you can't program it at all.)
13:33:22 <int-e> I'm quite happy with the fragment of C++ that has structs and classes, no inheritance, and a small amount of templates. I prefer it to doing the same thing in C because of the namespace thing, and well, because templates offer some amount of code generation when you need it.
13:34:12 <int-e> (Oh and exceptions see the occasional use as well... as non-local returns.)
13:44:14 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes, but with or without implicitly called user-defined destructors (and implicitly called copy/move constructors/initializers)? because that is, I think, what most clearly distinguishes C++ from C.
13:45:41 <int-e> wib_jonas: I really try to stick to pod-types.
13:51:34 <int-e> kspalaiologos: I do use Haskell too. :P
13:52:54 <int-e> I'll go out on a limb and say I have better things to think about.
13:53:44 <kspalaiologos> also, as you use haskell you're probably experienced in CS theory
13:54:03 <kspalaiologos> would you tell me how the f*ck can 3-celled brainfuck be Turing complete
13:54:07 <int-e> I mean I admire your efforts to deprive "Brainfuck" of its esolang status, but I don't want to be part of it.
13:54:34 <kspalaiologos> but it makes no sense to me that you can for example do modulus operation on it
13:54:35 <fizzie> There was that one brainfuck system call library thingamajick, what was it called? Wasn't really anything very surprising, though -- just a specific protocol for the input/output instructions.
13:54:36 <kritixilithos> kspalaiologos: oh you're extending bf and making it a proper language?
13:54:43 <int-e> kspalaiologos: Just work through oerjan's construction.
13:54:55 <int-e> It's only slightly tricky!!!1
13:55:06 <kspalaiologos> kritixilithos, wiring up SQLite to write an URL shortener in brainfuck
13:55:50 <kspalaiologos> SELECT is being worked on because I can't get over the callback mechanism
13:56:32 <kspalaiologos> I thought that if I had 3 bignum cells and a brainfuck like language
13:56:40 <kspalaiologos> to prove it's turing complete I'd simulate a stack machine
13:56:47 <kspalaiologos> that has two stacks and in result is turing complete
13:57:20 <kspalaiologos> to push something on a stack I'd just *= 255 & += n;
13:57:27 <kspalaiologos> but to pop something out of the stack I need modulus
13:57:40 <fizzie> There was https://esolangs.org/wiki/Systemf but that's not the one I was thinking of, it was more abstract and didn't introduce any new commands.
13:58:37 <int-e> kspalaiologos: pushing isn't the problem... popping is.
13:58:41 <fizzie> Right, and https://esolangs.org/wiki/PESOIX
13:58:52 <int-e> You'd need a division by a constant with remainder using only two cells.
13:59:07 <int-e> The fun thing about Collatz machines is that you get 3 cells for that task, effectively.
13:59:17 <int-e> s/machines/functions/
13:59:49 <kspalaiologos> but it would be possible to translate 3-cell brainfuck to 2-register MM
14:00:54 <int-e> However then it won't be complexity preserving.
14:01:20 <int-e> A direcy, complexity preserving translation will almost certainly need 3 cells.
14:01:46 <kspalaiologos> nut the thing that bothers me the most in this case are unbalanced loops
14:02:16 <kspalaiologos> because one can't refer to variable register using MM
14:02:27 <int-e> Because a 3-cell Brainfuck program can divide a counter that is known to be even by 2 in two cells, while keeping another counter around. A Minsky machine cannot divide a counter in place.
14:02:51 <int-e> The reference to a variable register isn't a problem... just make the tape position part of the MM state.
14:03:21 <kspalaiologos> we can have just two registers, adding another variable to the state makes it very cheaty
14:03:39 <int-e> Make the MM state a pair of program position (in the brainfuck program) and current tape position (0,1,2)
14:04:12 <int-e> That way a 3-cell Brainfuck program of length l becomes a MM with 3 registers and 3*l states.
14:04:33 <int-e> And that preserves complexity.
14:04:43 <int-e> *I*'m interested in preserving complexity here.
14:05:08 <int-e> You can do the usual m to 2 counters reduction afterwards.
14:05:23 <int-e> At an exponential cost in runtime.
14:07:46 <int-e> You encode counters a,b,...,z as 2^a 3^b ... 101^z. You can do division with remainder using one more counter... so you can check whether any of the original registers is 0 (--> not divisible by the corresponding prime), and increment and decrement counters as well.
14:08:02 <int-e> (did you know that 101 is the 26th prime...)
14:09:42 <int-e> increment b --> multiply the counter by 3. decrement b -> divide the counter by 3; if the remainder is 0, the decrement succeeds. Otherwise multiply by 3 and add the remainder back, and branch somewhere else.
14:10:33 <int-e> (You can keep track of the remainder in the finite state of the Minsky machine, and of the quotient in the other counter.)
14:11:29 <kspalaiologos> and there is NO way to implement it on a 2 register MM
14:11:30 <int-e> that's what I just called remainder.
14:11:59 <int-e> You just need many states.
14:14:12 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1124843/
14:14:48 <int-e> It's important that we only ever divide by known constants.
14:25:14 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mister14 * New user account
14:29:05 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68699&oldid=68693 * Mister14 * (+245) /* Introductions */
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15:02:42 <j-bot> wib_jonas: 3125 120
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15:30:53 <Taneb> I should try to learn J again
15:32:24 <kspalaiologos> https://www.jsoftware.com/help/learning/contents.htm
15:32:28 <Taneb> Never quite got the hooks and stuff last time
15:33:49 <wib_jonas> `python3 -cimport math; v = 5; print(v**v, math.factorial(v))
15:36:27 <j-bot> Taneb: 1 1 4 27 256 3125
15:36:49 <Taneb> ^~ is a monad (in the J sense, not the Haskell sense) which computes x^x
15:38:31 <HackEso> /`? No such file or directory
15:38:41 <wib_jonas> division should not get a precious single character symbol in any language, it's such a rare operation, it should just get named functions
15:39:54 <kritixilithos> kspalaiologos: because `-` is a function that can also be monadic, in which case it negates the right argument
15:40:00 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: - is used for subtraction and unary negation, but _ is used in a negative number literal
15:40:43 <wib_jonas> > let { f x = 10 * x; } in fmap f (3, 6, -2)
15:40:46 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Functor ((,,) Integer Integer))
15:40:49 <wib_jonas> > let { f x = 10 * x; } in fmap f (3, 6)
15:41:16 <wib_jonas> and it's also why standard ML uses a different character for unary negation, though their specific choice is objectionable
15:41:24 <FireFly> I think most languages only let you express positive number literals, and simply have you apply negation on a positive literal
15:41:50 <j-bot> kritixilithos: _2 _3
15:41:50 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1
15:41:53 <wib_jonas> `python3 -cprint([10 * x for x in [3, 6, -2])
15:41:53 <HackEso> File "<string>", line 1 \ print([10 * x for x in [3, 6, -2]) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax
15:41:55 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 4 9
15:41:59 <j-bot> kritixilithos: _2 3
15:42:00 <wib_jonas> `python3 -cprint([10 * x for x in [3, 6, -2]])
15:42:20 <kritixilithos> https://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm
15:42:37 <FireFly> I don't know what "treats like an empty variable" would mean here
15:43:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: * -
15:43:28 <j-bot> kritixilithos: _100
15:43:31 <j-bot> wib_jonas: 0.894427j0.447214
15:43:43 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:43:45 <arseniiv> <kspalaiologos> every single language uses slash for division => Haskell uses / for division but also % to construct rationals from integer, e. g. 2 % 3 for the number 2/3, and they are stringified accordingly, though you can also write (2 :: Rational) / 3
15:43:53 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: a complex number literal
15:44:27 <kspalaiologos> I'm an idiot when it comes to FP, I didn't use any FP language really
15:44:47 <kspalaiologos> but I spent a fair amount of time on low level programming
15:44:52 <arseniiv> this doesn’t change that J is a write-only esolang
15:44:59 <FireFly> what does 'low level' mean in this context?
15:45:34 <kspalaiologos> I managed to write a simple java powered kernel lately
15:45:59 <kritixilithos> "this doesn’t change that J is a write-only esolang" apl OTOH isn't write-only, because the glyphs are easier to read
15:46:34 <kritixilithos> no, get an apl keybaord layout and it becomes easy to write
15:46:38 <wib_jonas> `python3 -cv = 2+1j; print(v / abs(v))
15:46:38 <HackEso> (0.8944271909999159+0.4472135954999579j)
15:46:51 <arseniiv> kspalaiologos: equational FP languages (like Haskell or my F-turned thing) are more readable than J, I assure you
15:46:58 <kspalaiologos> can't they use I instead of J to signify irrational unit?
15:47:07 <arseniiv> <kspalaiologos> s read only => rofl :D
15:47:41 <kspalaiologos> I tried to get a taste of Elixir but currently it's 0-1 for me
15:48:30 <kspalaiologos> going so hard after the state seems peculiar to me
15:49:25 <wib_jonas> `python3 -cv = complex(2,1); s = v / abs(v); print("%f+%fI" % (s.real, s.imag)) # kspalaiologos: there, it uses I
15:49:53 <kspalaiologos> but my constrained mind seems to take lisp easier than languages camouflaging to be something really useful
15:51:09 <arseniiv> bet Clojure, Racket, Scheme and CL have a ton of differences between each other
15:51:34 <arseniiv> ah, CL is secretly an imperative language if that tag is still useful
15:54:12 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: how about using fortran 2019?
15:55:09 <kspalaiologos> /* it was Wheelchair: https://github.com/azac/cobol-on-wheelchair */
15:55:29 <kspalaiologos> it's actively developed (since I looked at it last time)
15:56:13 <arseniiv> anyway I often like a clean piece of imperative code
15:56:52 <kspalaiologos> look on this clean piece of imperative code: https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/asmbf/blob/master/bfasm.c
15:57:45 <arseniiv> and the piece is too long and is for an orchestra I think
15:59:04 <arseniiv> I often think that about myself too
15:59:40 <wib_jonas> my very old code has assignments with no space before the equals sign, only after. it's horrible.
16:00:01 <kspalaiologos> I've seen code that has spaces before and after every paren
16:00:27 <wib_jonas> hey, that doesn't have space before and after every paren
16:00:55 <arseniiv> once I thought that the language should have a rational implicit conversion for any occasion, between any two types, and a special syntax (instead of plain method/function names) for most operations on standard types
16:01:17 <wib_jonas> oh yeah, my old code has space between the function name and the call parenthesis too. also horrible
16:01:51 <arseniiv> I almost never wrote like that at least
16:02:34 <arseniiv> maybe because I almost started with VB6 where the IDE formats your line as you leave it
16:07:59 <kspalaiologos> are the expressions evaluated right to left, really?
16:08:52 <FireFly> well, the operator precedence is "all verbs are equal precedence", and verb evaluation is right to left, yes
16:09:21 <FireFly> Iverson explained quite clearly why in one of his old papers on APL, I think it was in notation as a tool for thought
16:09:38 <FireFly> https://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm
16:10:19 <FireFly> in general, APL was developed as an alternate maths notation originally, designed to be more consistent than the conventional notation
16:10:37 <FireFly> it also amongst other things introduced the notation for floor and ceiling that we use today
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16:12:26 <kspalaiologos> "A function taking a single argument on the right is called a monadic function, or a monad for short. "
16:13:06 <kspalaiologos> that's the real meaning of this buzzword which definition feels like reading Malbolge?
16:13:57 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0.25
16:14:09 <arseniiv> kspalaiologos: no, Haskell monads are the other sort :)
16:14:46 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: compare "variadic", or the use of "monad", "dyad" in music
16:14:51 <fizzie> The definitive definition is whatever's in our wisdom, of course.
16:14:53 <FireFly> (yes, it refers to the number of arguments)
16:14:54 <HackEso> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
16:14:58 <HackEso> Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories.
16:15:00 <FireFly> see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arity#Terminology
16:15:05 <HackEso> Endomorphisms are just final morphisms.
16:15:09 <HackEso> A morphism is just a natural transformation between two diagrams of shape 1.
16:15:23 <HackEso> "final" is an annotation in Java; it means the marked code will not be changed anymore and is a final version.
16:15:40 <fizzie> You have to pick words quite carefully to stay in the same domain of things.
16:15:43 <HackEso> A category is an enriched category where the enriching category is the category of classes.
16:16:15 <FireFly> a lot of J's terminology is borrowed from linguistics, I'm not sure if the use of monadic/dyadic (which also existed back in APL) are derived from the musical terms..
16:16:18 <arseniiv> so monad's definition varies by language? => I think these times “monadic” is far more often about category theory monads, not arity-one functions
16:16:26 <kspalaiologos> > Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. <
16:16:28 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:25: error: parse error on input ‘in’
16:16:38 <HackEso> A kittegory is just a small category.
16:16:39 <kmc> yes, sometimes "monadic" just means "1-adic"
16:16:48 <kmc> or arity 1
16:16:54 <kmc> oh it also has a meaning in philosophy
16:17:02 <kmc> from kant i think
16:17:19 <arseniiv> <HackEso> A morphism is just a natural transformation between two diagrams of shape 1. => rofl
16:17:20 <int-e> . o O ( Classes were a concept in pre-anonymous internet that have since been replaced by finely meshed masks. )
16:18:15 <arseniiv> <kmc> from kant i think => wasn’t it Leibnitz?
16:18:31 <arseniiv> though they could be both making their own monads
16:19:00 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1 1
16:19:29 <Taneb> What were you expecting?
16:19:46 <FireFly> in +/ 2 3 4 you have the adverb / modifying the verb + to produce "sum"
16:19:53 <Taneb> op / x y z is equalivalent to x op y op z
16:20:38 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1
16:21:00 <FireFly> arseniiv: unary % is reciprocal, so you're taking reciprocal of 0 or 1
16:21:22 <Taneb> It's just as true as any other answer you can give
16:21:44 <arseniiv> ah wait I thought about 0^0 maybe
16:22:09 <int-e> arseniiv: a/0 is a sane choice *if* you have to make / total.
16:22:21 <int-e> arseniiv: a/0 = 0 I mean.
16:22:29 <int-e> 0^0 is 1 of course.
16:22:57 <arseniiv> 1 => phew [I was trying to remember how’s that word written]
16:23:54 <arseniiv> int-e: maybe, but why not 1 for example. / is related to multiplication, 1 is too. 0 is less related
16:24:11 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: pretty much
16:25:14 <int-e> arseniiv: Picking 0 makes (a+b)/c = a/c + b/c and (ab)/c = a(b/c) true unconditionally. So... the choice is pragmatic.
16:26:16 <arseniiv> int-e: is it because 0 is absorbing with regard to × just like ∞
16:26:24 <FireFly> it's been a sort of comment marker for 300 years
16:26:34 <int-e> arseniiv: People do not agree on this universally, of course. (There are some vocal people who think that x/0 should be left as unspecified as possible... it has a value, but you don't know what it is. But then you'll still have theorems like x/0 - x/0 = 0 that will annoy the purists that you were trying to please...)
16:27:13 <int-e> arseniiv: So given the choice between not satisfying the purists, and a little more convenience in proving things, I'd pick convenience every time out of 10 :)
16:27:13 <arseniiv> I like to imagine 0 in context of nonnegative integers or rationals as 2^∞ 3^∞ 5^∞ 7^∞ …
16:28:13 <arseniiv> int-e: But then you'll still have theorems like x/0 - x/0 = 0 that will annoy the purists that you were trying to please... => yeah, I’ll be annoyed for sure
16:28:23 <int-e> arseniiv: Of course, in the end you still get plenty of theorems that divide by some d and require that d != 0.
16:28:25 <kspalaiologos> this was a great opportunity to make some brainfuck code
16:28:33 <j-bot> arseniiv: |spelling error
16:28:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0.1
16:29:07 <FireFly> I'm not sure what you mean
16:29:25 <FireFly> unary % is reciprocal, but in general the unary and binary case of a verb doesn't have to be related
16:29:38 <FireFly> unary >. is ceiling, binary >. is maximum I believe
16:29:58 <FireFly> it's all in the vocabulary
16:30:02 <wib_jonas> dear webpage of manufacturer, if I want to download the manual for your device, I'd like to tell you which device it is first and then choose from the languages in which a manual is available, rather than choose a language first then search for devices with a manual in that language. thank yuo.
16:30:07 <FireFly> https://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm is quite handy
16:30:09 <arseniiv> btw one great thing about lisps is that their + − × / are often variadic
16:31:12 <arseniiv> though now I seem to think (− 1 2 3) should be treated as (1 + 2) − 3 as we drop a left operand when writing (− 2)
16:32:00 <Taneb> That gives _1 _2 _3, right?
16:32:42 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 _3
16:32:53 -!- imode has joined.
16:32:56 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 _3
16:33:07 <Taneb> Well, it does in J. In Lisp I don't know
16:33:12 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 0 0
16:33:12 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 0
16:33:12 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 _3
16:33:28 <FireFly> because you produced a 3x3 array
16:34:13 <FireFly> it's a handy tool, and moreso I think it's handy to reason about programs in array-programming terms in my head sometimes
16:34:18 <arseniiv> hm what would alparring then mean
16:34:25 <FireFly> another tool in the toolbox for reasoning about problems
16:35:01 <j-bot> arseniiv: |syntax error
16:35:01 <j-bot> arseniiv: | \\\1 2 3
16:35:12 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: not entirely sure; I'd appreciate if you wouldn't try to get it to quit due to flooding
16:35:38 <FireFly> I mean it's limited to three lines at a time
16:35:46 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 0 0
16:35:46 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 0
16:35:46 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 _4
16:35:47 <FireFly> but in principle that means you could spam lines and have it be amplified 1:3
16:35:49 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 0 0 0
16:35:49 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 0 0
16:35:49 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 _3 0
16:35:49 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: _1 _2 _3 _4
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59
16:36:02 <j-bot> FireFly: 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69
16:36:03 <j-bot> FireFly: 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79
16:36:45 <FireFly> it'd be easiest if you reference the vocabulary for looking up verbs
16:37:50 <arseniiv> bet I have seen `atoi` in some language, related to ι but don’t remember in what a way
16:38:05 <kspalaiologos> but using this language already feels like driving a truck on thin ice
16:38:07 <FireFly> isn't that just "string to integer"
16:39:20 <FireFly> Not sure, I'm told it's still used a bit in financial stuffs
16:39:48 <Taneb> Didn't Phantom_Hoover get a job working with K?
16:40:33 <kspalaiologos> FireFly, < K is the foundation for a family of financial products > -> you're right
16:41:15 <FireFly> I think that K is kind of the theoretically beautiful, minimalistic language in the family.. although it's also fairly different from APL and J in terms of how its arrays work
16:41:30 <FireFly> or well, it's more oriented around nested lists (a la lisps) than APL-style rectangular arrays
16:41:40 <FireFly> J is much more "batteries included"
16:42:27 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
16:42:38 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 4.25 4.2
16:42:38 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 5.25 5.2
16:44:09 <int-e> beating the averages
16:44:44 <FireFly> created a hook that uh.. creates a table of the original input and the reciprocal?
16:45:01 <FireFly> (a fork that divides the sum by the length)
16:45:15 <int-e> > [1/a + b | a <- [4,5], b <- [4,5]]
16:45:27 <int-e> (wrong order, right numbers)
16:45:30 <j-bot> FireFly: ┌─────┬──────────────┐
16:45:30 <j-bot> FireFly: │1 2 3│1 0.5 0.333333│
16:45:30 <j-bot> FireFly: └─────┴──────────────┘
16:45:36 <FireFly> well okay, not a great example
16:46:06 <FireFly> I used ; link, which boxes its left and right arguments before concatenating
16:46:13 <FireFly> [ <'hello' NB. we have boxes
16:46:46 <Taneb> int-e: what did you expect?
16:47:03 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: (< < <"_ _ _)"
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: ┌────────┐
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: │┌──────┐│
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: ││┌────┐││
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: │││bruh│││
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: ││└────┘││
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: │└──────┘│
16:47:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: └────────┘
16:47:15 <int-e> Taneb: It did what I expected. But it's potentially very noisy.
16:47:33 <Taneb> int-e: I think that's true of a lot of things involving J
16:47:35 <FireFly> yeah, I wonder if the default output ought to be changed to the more consise way
16:47:42 <FireFly> I forget the foreign for it..
16:48:00 <Taneb> Maybe it could use double-lined boxes
16:48:10 <int-e> FireFly: "concise" if you're wondering about the spelling
16:49:03 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: "let's see"
16:49:08 <int-e> kspalaiologos: imagine a silent 't' after the first 'e'
16:49:38 <int-e> (engl-ish is a contraction of english-ish, of course)
16:50:30 <HackEso> test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
16:51:55 <int-e> kspalaiologos: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/ish has the right definition.
16:52:11 <Taneb> Hmm, is "ish" a monad (in the Haskell sense)
16:52:20 <Taneb> If something is red, it's red-ish
16:52:27 <Taneb> If something is red-ish-ish, it's red-ish
16:52:36 <arseniiv> I don’t think the latter is true?
16:52:56 <int-e> . o O ( What color is horse red-ish? )
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16:58:33 <arseniiv> int-e: reminds me about a partially obtuse riddle mentioning a horse too, which has an usual translation “when one buys a horse, what (=in which state) it is?” and an intended translation like “when one have a horse washed” instead of the first, and the answer is then “it is wet”
17:01:14 <arseniiv> I had seen it only in a book, not in vivo at all
17:01:47 <int-e> . o O ( weird things are far more common than the word's meaning suggests )
17:02:41 <kspalaiologos> http://kspalaiologos.baselinux.net/doc/happy20.wav or http://kspalaiologos.baselinux.net/doc/unreleased.wav
17:03:10 <arseniiv> also one about horses from a book: “do horses go to a ball” with an intended reparse “do [somebody plural] walk on the balcony”
17:03:56 <arseniiv> this one even features quite unnatural world permutation to work
17:04:15 <arseniiv> meaning, that permutation is rare even in convoluted poetry
17:06:31 <arseniiv> kspalaiologos: it they are tracked, maybe modarchive or what it’s called
17:08:05 <arseniiv> I’m not able to review in meaningful way but both look pretty solid and fun
17:09:15 <kspalaiologos> although there were a few songs from modarchive I liked
17:09:21 <arseniiv> as the first is longer, there is more material to judge on… hm. I can’t say I wouldn’t pick the first
17:10:05 <kspalaiologos> and I used in my game a couple of months ago a song named "blinded monarch" from modarchive
17:10:09 <arseniiv> (I myself don’t go to modarchive but I know about it via OpenMPT forum)
17:10:54 <kspalaiologos> https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=170225
17:12:03 <arseniiv> I like the alternate beat in the second at 0:30
17:13:09 <kspalaiologos> 2nd one will be looped so it's quite short and the alternate beat was very important because it would feel terribly if the same part was looped over and over
17:16:24 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68700&oldid=68698 * Hex96 * (+82) /* Getting one of my languages on the random language button */
17:16:37 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68701&oldid=68700 * Hex96 * (+1) /* Getting one of my languages on the random language button */
17:17:09 <kspalaiologos> in most cases I land either on trivial brainfuck derivative
17:19:08 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:19:48 <ais523> perhaps constant-output languages should be split out of [[Category:Languages]] in order to discourage random spamming of trivially simple language ideas in order to discouarge attempts to bias the random-language functionality?
17:20:12 <arseniiv> kspalaiologos: yeah, unfortunate :(
17:20:18 <kspalaiologos> also, we really can merge all the brainfuck substitutions
17:21:09 <ais523> something I've been meaning to do for a while but never got around to was to write a metalanguage that generated BF-equivalents (and maybe some almost-equivalents)
17:21:20 <ais523> for the purpose of being able to merge them all into a single page
17:26:41 <kspalaiologos> to merge all pages containing the [[:Category:Trivial Brainfuck Substitution]] (or something along these lines)
17:27:15 <ais523> MediaWiki's DB organisation is kind-of fragile, it's certainly possible to do that but I wouldn't be at all confident the script was touching every table it needed to in the correct way
17:28:07 <ais523> fwiw I'd be much more confident doing something like that client-side via a tool like AWB
17:29:55 <kspalaiologos> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage#Approved_users
17:30:10 <kspalaiologos> a power user will just nop out the statements used for the check
17:31:12 <ais523> kspalaiologos: it's pretty good at keeping out script kiddies
17:31:37 <ais523> they don't even know how to override the check
17:32:27 <kspalaiologos> that will add my username to the wiki page, there must be a programmable tool for that
17:32:31 <ais523> also, the list is enforced two ways: both by the tool itself, and by Wikipedia administrators who can block accounts that are using automated editing illegally
17:32:58 <ais523> it's pretty hard to bypass the check in the tool unknowingly
17:33:46 <ais523> so using the tool contrary to the checkpage check is pretty strong evidence that someone is intentionally trying to violate policy
17:34:59 <ais523> the thing is, on Wikipedia anything can be reverted
17:35:11 <ais523> and someone having bypassed a clientside check is good evidence that it /should/ be reverted
17:35:26 <kspalaiologos> possibly but reverting in batch can be sometimes bad
17:35:43 <kspalaiologos> maybe the user mixed good and bad contributions? maybe someone already touched the page since "change"?
17:35:46 <ais523> yes, that's why it's a good idea to have a system that lets you know whether reverting in batch is likely to be helpful
17:36:00 <kspalaiologos> ratelimits on edits, no more than a page per minute
17:36:01 <ais523> also, I'm pretty sure there are systems that check to see if an account is editing too fast
17:36:16 <ais523> that's one of the things the "bot flag" on an account is for, it disables the rate limits
17:36:37 <ais523> but that has to be set manually and there's vetting of the user/bot first
17:37:10 <kspalaiologos> just get an automated system that trashes account of an user that makes more than two edits a second constantly
17:37:38 <ais523> kspalaiologos: no, I mean permission to bypass rate limits has to be given manually
17:38:01 <ais523> the rate limits themselves are probably automatic, although I don't think I have perms to check atm
17:38:47 <ais523> not right now, I was at one time though (I resigned due to lack of activity)
17:39:37 <ais523> the abuse filter configuration is stored in a non-public database; however, there is a public page listing a subset of it, but it's unclear whether rate limits would be in the public or the private subset
17:40:18 <ais523> looking at the source code for this would be pointless because it's a configuration setting, not hardcoded
17:42:09 <ais523> OK, I checked the public part of the configuration: it states that a rate limit exists; however, the exact numbers are not public
17:42:46 <kspalaiologos> << This user doesn't have enough privileges to make automatic edits on this wiki. >>
17:47:49 <fizzie> You just said the client-side protection is useless, now you're complaining about them not spending enough effort on it.
17:50:10 <ais523> or duplicate it on the server side
17:50:13 <kspalaiologos> there are no inbetweeners, because it has no sense to implement weak protection
17:50:52 <ais523> client-side validation that's duplicated on the server-side is pretty helpful because it saves the server time dealing with known bad values, and saves the user time too because the client-side check is faster when using a slow Internet connection
17:51:26 <ais523> I'm talking in general here, rather than about AWB in particular
17:51:27 <kspalaiologos> and then they check whether the client can proceed or not
17:51:39 <kspalaiologos> well AWB uses inet connection for a clientside check
17:51:43 <ais523> in AWB, the server-side duplication is a little less accurate because it isn't always 100% obvious whether someone's using AWB or not
17:52:05 <ais523> which is the reason why the client-side check helps there
17:52:43 <kspalaiologos> it would be a shame if (*cough*) someone, released an unlocked version.
17:53:13 <ais523> people bypassing the check basically just costs the Wikipedia administrators time in cleaning the issue up, it doesn't do lasting damage
17:53:40 <ais523> so having an imperfect check is a good time-saving device, compared to having no client-side check
17:54:17 <ais523> there are rate limits, but manual edits can go pretty quickly sometimes
17:54:29 <ais523> I think I managed something like 8/minute manually cleaning up spam
17:54:50 <ais523> so the rate limits, despite not being public, are likely set to something comparable to that
17:54:52 <kspalaiologos> and you think that automatic tool will edit at 8 edits a minute?
17:55:11 <ais523> it can go much faster in full-auto mode, but that would be noticed
17:55:15 <ais523> and blocked very quickly
17:55:46 <ais523> 30-60/minute is common for full-auto bots, with maxlag compensation
17:56:30 <ais523> you think it would be better to not have the check?
17:56:33 <kspalaiologos> my friend used to put anti-scriptkiddie check in his CS1.7 (or whatever it was called) bot
17:56:36 <wib_jonas> are you talking about irc rate limiting and jeval's rate limiter? I can tell you about these
17:56:51 <ais523> there's a statement along the lines of "locks are to keep out honest users", this will prevent anyone honest using it without getting authorisation
17:57:01 <kspalaiologos> ais523, strengthten the check to make it more effective
17:57:30 <ais523> it's easy to bypass by someone who wants to be an issue, but those people are rare, and the existence of the check makes it clear that such people are being intentionally unconstructive when they get caught (which normally happens quickly)
17:58:07 <wib_jonas> I guess I'll have to read this scrollback later, gtg now
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17:58:47 <kspalaiologos> but I believe I'd get that sorted out in a better way it is right now
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18:27:54 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68702&oldid=68668 * Hex96 * (+75) /* commands */
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18:58:36 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68703&oldid=68619 * Hex96 * (+46)
19:00:37 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68704&oldid=68703 * Hex96 * (-2) /* Examples */
19:03:21 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68705&oldid=68704 * Hex96 * (+83) /* Examples */
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19:05:39 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68706&oldid=68705 * Hex96 * (+54)
19:05:58 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68707&oldid=68706 * Hex96 * (+1)
19:11:19 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68708&oldid=68707 * Hex96 * (+55) /* calculator */
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19:25:48 <esowiki> [[User talk:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68709&oldid=68389 * Hex96 * (+92)
19:26:13 <esowiki> [[User talk:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68710&oldid=68709 * Hex96 * (+2)
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19:58:34 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: for merging brainfuck equivalents, note that Ook! has some historical significance so I'd prefer it to have its own page
19:59:46 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos, ais523: the esolangs.org wiki has the api.php interface enabled, at https://esolangs.org/w/api.php , documented at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page ,
20:00:05 <b_jonas> that's the interface that I recommend if you want to make automated changes to lots of pages, or other complex automation
20:00:44 <b_jonas> it's not the only API, eg. there's also https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Export , but it's a very general one, and usually it's the most convenient one for automation
20:02:14 <esowiki> [[User:CarlosLuna]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68711&oldid=68689 * CarlosLuna * (-196) Improving indentation
20:02:46 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: yes, of course there are rate limits on the server. why would you think there aren't? the interface even tells you what rate it wants you to edit stuff, because sometimes the Mediawiki servers are overloaded, in which case they ask bots to edit slower
20:03:12 <b_jonas> what the client side does is to just read those rate limits in the replies and wait for the appropriate time
20:03:57 <b_jonas> "<ais523> that's one of the things the "bot flag" on an account is for, it disables the rate limits" => no, not really. the bot flag is more for marking bots that are trusted so that people patrolling RecentChanges or other lists of changes can easily ignore bot edits
20:08:33 <b_jonas> the point of the client-side rate limits is that they can submit your write request slowly enough that the server doesn't ban you for editing more quickly. those client-side rate limits are what let you spam the server. if you remove them, you'll just get your request refused by the server in a busy loop.
20:16:22 <arseniiv> <b_jonas> that's the interface that I recommend if you want to make automated changes to lots of pages, or other complex automation => this is great! (possibly; didn’t read what it allows)
20:17:01 <arseniiv> good that MediaWiki folks had thought about that
20:17:31 <fizzie> Just try not to get carried away.
20:18:03 <fizzie> (I'll be the one who has to restore from backup if you do.)
20:18:36 <fizzie> Also, anything that *requires* "complex automation" is probably sufficiently drastic to have a talk page discussion for a few months before implementing.
20:19:03 <fizzie> (Few months of esolangs.org time is probably equivalent of few days of Wikipedia time, relatively speaking.)
20:22:14 <b_jonas> fizzie: no it's not. en.wikipedia has hundreds of edits per minute, and even the smaller wikipedias have a lot of edits. the esolangs wiki has had less than 100000 edits total.
20:22:30 <fizzie> It doesn't scale that way.
20:22:46 <fizzie> It's a logarithm of edit speed or something.
20:23:22 <b_jonas> arseniiv: yes, it's generally a good api. not perfect, but good.
20:24:02 <b_jonas> sometimes it lags a little behind the other latest developments of mediawiki and its extensions, so there can be extension functions that work but not yet accessible through the api,
20:24:47 <b_jonas> or sometimes the permissions are inconsistent, as in there's at least one list that I can query through the default html interface anonymously, but get a permission error if I try to query it through api.php
20:25:44 <b_jonas> I met that problem a year ago, might be fixed by now
20:27:31 <arseniiv> <fizzie> Just try not to get carried away. => for my part, I’m not going to use it at all :D but glad anyway
20:29:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: discussion before implementing it => only if it has write operations I think. api.php is useful for read-only stuff too, such as watching new changes
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20:34:25 <fizzie> Sure, that's f... well, fine, within reason.
20:36:28 <b_jonas> obviously only if you don't overload the server
20:39:10 <fizzie> Hypothetically, for watching new changes, there's the push-based mechanism that can be used through having a discussion.
20:41:18 <fizzie> And the data dump for local analysis purposes, though there's a link to that on the main page, so it's very discoverable.
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21:41:30 <int-e> This is stupid... https://projecteuler.net/problem=674 is so careful to explain that one should pair "distinct expressions from file <file name here>", and the file contains a duplicate entry... and turns out you are supposed to compare expressions with different line numbers instead, even if they are the same.
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22:34:27 <fizzie> int-e: Have you always been doing PE, or is this just for AoC withdrawal?
22:45:49 <int-e> fizzie: I was clean for almost 10 years, but AoC kind of triggered this relapse
22:46:18 <int-e> (Is that right? Maybe it was only 6 years)
22:46:28 <int-e> A long time anyway.
22:46:29 <b_jonas> int-e: in that case, sorry if I prompted you to this (I mentioned AoC)
22:46:38 <int-e> b_jonas: don't worry about it.
22:49:14 <int-e> I'm kind of proving to myself that I can still do this. The trick will be to stop when I reach the milestone I set out with (solving the 25 most recent problems. I have two to go.)
22:50:27 <b_jonas> int-e: solve 25 recent ones on http://www.spoj.com/ too :-)
22:50:43 <int-e> 10 years is about right. I stopped around https://projecteuler.net/problem=231
22:51:04 <int-e> b_jonas: Yeah probably not.
22:51:34 <int-e> The thing is I kind of like the combinatorial sort of problems that PE does.
22:54:29 <int-e> (PE includes publishing dates with their problems so the link is suitable for dating.)
22:57:47 <fizzie> int-e: I've been toying with the idea of doing p5.js visual illustrations out of my solutions, did two already -- https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc-2019-p5/ -- but not sure if I'll finish, not all of them are as visual. Though many are.
22:58:32 <int-e> I have not touched any AoC or Intcode... this year, I think.
22:59:10 <int-e> We should get kspalaiologos to write tools for that :P
23:02:22 <int-e> fizzie: Oh the CA one is pretty. In the asteroid scan too much is going on.
23:02:52 <fizzie> int-e: Did you let the scan run to part 2? I think that's better.
23:03:28 <fizzie> Part 1 is just a flickery mess, it's true.
23:03:55 <int-e> Oh I remember what it was... yes, part 2 should work better.
23:04:00 <fizzie> I mean, it's not going to be any prettier, just less messy.
23:04:16 <int-e> But now I missed the fun part.
23:05:13 <int-e> Yeah, part 2 is nicer :)
23:05:42 <fizzie> My target asteroid 200 was in the first sweep, not sure if that's always the case.
23:06:35 <int-e> And it was number 200 as well.
23:09:35 <int-e> Ah, you did the sweep differently :)
23:09:53 <int-e> I actually used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern-Brocot_tree to get the possible directions in clockwise order.
23:11:23 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1124909/
23:12:44 <fizzie> Heh, interesting. Kind of more discrete.
23:14:58 <fizzie> I did consider doing the same thing I did (reuse part 1's 'get visible' function, sort the result) but using a quadrant-and-slope kind of thing for the sort instead of atan2.
23:15:38 <int-e> But yeah, atan2 seems simpler.
23:16:07 <int-e> Unless you worry about rounding errors...
23:16:46 <fizzie> I did, but it gave the right result. :)
23:17:10 <int-e> Oh yes, there is that in these competitions.
23:17:15 <fizzie> I guess the whole "only the visible ones" + the limited size of the grid means you can't really get angles that near each other.
23:19:58 <int-e> But let's see... two subsequent angles span a parallelogram of area 1, so the angle between them is arcsin(1/(ab)) where a and b are the lengths of the vectors... which are less than sqrt(2)*48.
23:20:13 <int-e> > asin (1/(2*48^2))
23:20:41 <int-e> As you can see, no need to worry about rounding errors :)
23:21:31 <int-e> s/angles/directions/ (and by "direction" I mean an integer vector (p,q) with gcd(p,q) = 1)
23:22:30 <int-e> > atan2 1 1 - atan2 46 47
23:23:07 <int-e> > atan2 45 46 - atan2 46 47 -- ah, this is more like it
23:23:53 <int-e> that should be the actual minumum achievable difference
23:25:06 <int-e> > atan2 3 3 - atan2 5 5 -- now I'm curious
23:26:06 <int-e> fizzie: wait, your grid is so much smaller than mine!
23:26:26 <int-e> I got a 48x48 one.
23:26:36 <fizzie> Weird. That's what I got as my input file.
23:27:22 <fizzie> This is the one day I did real early (as in, leaderboard early), I guess it's technically possible they might have changed the size? Sounds odd though.
23:27:23 <int-e> 346 asteroids, not many more than yours
23:27:55 <int-e> Yeah, quite possibly.
23:28:36 <int-e> Or maybe they just picked a random value between 20 and 50.
23:28:54 <int-e> It's not like the problem became any simpler or harder because of it.
23:30:50 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1124911/ it looks nicer this way actually
23:32:53 <fizzie> My grid's so cramped. :/
23:54:47 <int-e> > (atan2 7673 4316 - atan2 7657 4307 :: Double, atan2 7673 4316 - atan2 7657 4307 :: Float) -- single precision is not enough on an 8K display
00:01:09 <int-e> > atan2 3817 (-2147) - atan2 3801 (-2138) :: Float -- oops, still too much
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07:13:34 <HackEso> sauron//Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. His heroic exploits include the resurrection of the Kings of Men and the conquest of the racists of Gondor. He now leads the Illuminati from his pyramid fort /ꙩ\ .
07:13:44 <HackEso> sauron//Sauron is the eponymous protagonist of the Lord of the Rings series. He serves primarily as narrator and the main driver of the plot. His heroic exploits include the resurrection of the Kings of Men and the conquest of the racists of Gondor. He now leads the Illuminati from his pyramid fort /ꙩ\ .
07:16:13 <HackEso> The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic.
07:16:18 <HackEso> Lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which ruled the world around 250 million years ago.
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07:17:47 <HackEso> Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good.
07:24:22 <lambdabot> Local time for arseniiv is вт янв. 7 12:24:20 2020
07:25:57 <arseniiv> and the yawn already starts taking me
07:26:59 <arseniiv> can’t get used to 2020 in the date
07:28:48 <oerjan> it is a date that can only be corrected in hindsight
07:29:54 <kmc> looking forward to 04:20:04 2020-04-20
07:31:54 <oerjan> insufficiently palindromic
07:31:57 <kmc> @localtime kmc
07:32:00 <lambdabot> Local time for kmc is Mon Jan 6 23:31:58 2020
07:33:38 <oerjan> `learn zemhill is a bot for playing BF Joust, something we cannot underscore enough.
07:33:42 <HackEso> Learned 'zemhill': zemhill is a bot for playing BF Joust, something we cannot underscore enough.
07:33:56 <zemhill_________> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
07:34:35 <oerjan> `learn_append zemhill See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
07:34:36 <HackEso> Usage: le/rn_append keyword//Text you'd like to append.
07:34:50 <oerjan> `learn_append zemhill//See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
07:34:51 <HackEso> Usage: le/rn_append keyword//Text you'd like to append.
07:35:08 <oerjan> `le/rn_append zemhill//See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
07:35:11 <HackEso> Learned 'zemhill': zemhill is a bot for playing BF Joust, something we cannot underscore enough. See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
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10:28:53 <rain1> https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/gcr-decoding/index.php
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13:03:51 <rain1> anyone else watching games done quick
13:08:29 <int-e> rain1: previous GDQ events have been discussed (b_jonas is the biggest fan in my mind... he's not here now though)
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13:33:50 <myname> i usually just watch the mario videos on youtube later
14:23:12 <arseniiv> have someone heard somebody saying “EOF” or “EOS” in place of “period” at the end of a statement?
14:25:23 <arseniiv> it would feel self-ironic, I’d expect someone to have invented that
14:26:59 <myname> i only know of EOD, but that's quite different
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14:44:54 <fizzie> Or EOT, it's the ASCII name for ^d, "end of transmission". (There's also ETX and ETB, for 'end of text' and 'end of transmission block' respectively.)
15:03:26 <arseniiv> bad conlanging ideas (oh sorry it’s the other channel): using US RS GS FS in a natural-language text
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15:09:53 <myname> depending on the phone, thy might react to putting them on a charger
15:10:24 <kspalaiologos> also holding the power button should give any feedback
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15:10:58 <kspalaiologos> even when it's battery is depleted (that's how you say it in english?)
15:12:54 <fizzie> Arguably, if it's literally "depleted", it's not going to provide any feedback, because it's not like the screen actually runs without electricity. But granted, usually there's some feedback from long-press, because it's just low enough to not work, not completely empty.
15:13:26 <kspalaiologos> fizzie, most phones are protected from depleting their battery completely
15:13:53 <kspalaiologos> rather it's better IMO to call them depleted in the logical sense - phone refuses to run
15:14:23 <fizzie> If it's an Android one, it's possible the bootloader is still reachable over USB. I had a Nexus 5X die that way.
15:14:43 <myname> well, it can only respond to holding the power button if you don't have a broken power button
15:15:27 <kspalaiologos> can't believe that it broke down completely in my pocket in around 2-3 hours
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15:25:25 <arseniiv> kspalaiologos: ah wait when you open it there should be a small hole somewhere, and pushing inside with a pen or something like that should reset something and maybe the phone would be able to say something the next time you hold the power button
15:26:58 <arseniiv> I think I have made something this way when an SD card in my phone broke and it tried to fix the card and was booting for ages I had no patience to wait if it will boot at all
15:27:43 <arseniiv> though I don’t remember the details what and why I have done, but that reset button was used I think
15:29:03 <int-e> @google color with d
15:29:04 <lambdabot> http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.spycolor.com/color-index,d
15:29:04 <lambdabot> Title: Уведомление о переадресации
15:30:34 <int-e> Good question, hmm.
15:33:06 <int-e> Yeah, that's fine. It's google's doing. What is interesting is that it thinks that lambdabot resides in a russian speaking country.
15:34:15 <int-e> (the google plugin should probably stip the google part from the search result anyway)
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16:28:06 <lambdabot> http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/findzone.tzc
16:28:06 <lambdabot> Title: Уведомление о переадресации
16:30:34 <lambdabot> http://www.google.com/url?q=https://whatismyipaddress.com/
16:30:34 <lambdabot> Title: Уведомление о переадресации
16:30:49 <fizzie> Aw, it doesn't do the answer-answer, it just does the first search result.
16:31:13 <int-e> It's fetching Google's redirect page that would redirect to the actual thing.
16:31:22 <int-e> So... the Title will not change.
16:31:52 <int-e> Also I'm not sure whether https works.
16:33:46 <fizzie> I'm tempted to patch in some easter egg query that'd make lambdabot print something funny, but that'd probably raise some eyebrows at code review time.
16:37:10 <int-e> @google 1 in in cm
16:37:11 <lambdabot> http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.inches-to-cm.com/
16:37:11 <lambdabot> Title: Уведомление о переадресации
16:37:33 <int-e> Oh that's what you meant, I see. Yeah, that used to work at some point, but Google is very much of a moving target.
16:38:41 <fizzie> Oh yes. Though the answer box is probably a lot easier to scrape than the interactive unit converter widget. Not that I've ever looked at how the HTML looks like for either.
16:40:06 <fizzie> Anyway, there's a lot of user agenting going on to decide what to serve.
16:40:34 <fizzie> (Heh, I wonder how lambdabot queries appear in our browser classification.)
16:44:03 <int-e> I'm wondering what IP it actually uses for this. (IPv4 or IPv6 is the main question here)
16:45:28 <kmc> compromise on IPv5
16:45:45 <fizzie> Hey, the world has just (as in, mid-December) crossed 30% for IPv6: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
16:47:39 <int-e> somebody should tell the mobile phone providers
16:48:07 <fizzie> I suspect most of that is likely mobile/
16:48:17 <fizzie> There were a few high-profile mobile providers that went IPv6.
16:48:21 <int-e> "inet 100.73.48.224"
16:49:41 <int-e> Not here in Austria (or Germany for that matter), as far as I know.
16:50:10 <fizzie> Germany is apparently 51.3% IPv6.
16:50:13 <int-e> They have invested heavily in NAT, they have to use it ;)
16:50:35 <int-e> Yeah, maybe it happened and I just don't know.
16:51:02 <fizzie> The examples listed in Wikipedia for Germany are pretty DSL-y, nothing about mobile.
16:51:15 <int-e> I can believe it for DSL.
16:51:50 <fizzie> Over in USA, T-Mobile and Verizon both went IPv6, I think that's what contributed mostly over there.
17:02:55 <fizzie> Hey, my phone has an IPv6 address from Three UK, that's actually new. It didn't use to.
17:03:59 <fizzie> (v4 in 10/8, v6 in 2a04:4a40::/29.)
17:04:06 <kspalaiologos> fizzie, is there an SVN/mercurial repo of lambdabot?
17:04:32 <lambdabot> git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot
17:04:46 <fizzie> I'm not responsible for lambdabot, but yes, it's used on many many channels.
17:05:03 <int-e> kspalaiologos: fizzie is not involved in lambdabot, I'm running and sort-of maintaining it
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17:05:23 <fizzie> And I was talking about changing the Google response, which does have a code review for hopefully obvious reasons.
17:05:47 <kspalaiologos> fizzie, so you actually are a developer working for google?
17:06:00 <int-e> "sort-of" meaning that, really, I'm not doing much.
17:06:21 <fizzie> int-e: That's the glamorous life of an IRC bot maintainer.
17:06:33 <fizzie> fungot: What have I done for you recently?
17:06:34 <fungot> fizzie: they say that everyone knows why this is true, but in thought, he would peel back a tiny nibble, and a horn.
17:06:44 <int-e> fizzie: I have open bug reports though.
17:07:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
17:07:46 <kspalaiologos> is it true that workers in Google are treated like meatbags?
17:08:36 <fizzie> I'm not sure I want to discuss it in all that much detail.
17:08:39 <int-e> . o O ( I expect pretty much all of that information is covered under an NDA that fizzie signed. )
17:10:05 <fizzie> I'm pretty happy with Google as an employer, but there are also well-documented-in-the-media things that are less than perfect.
17:10:15 <myname> my number one question for google would by: why is youtube so horrible
17:12:01 <int-e> myname: Because youtube is not really for you; you're the product that is being sold to advertisers.
17:12:21 <fizzie> I think there's at least one "open" "report" for HackEso too, I just keep forgetting about it. I think I was suggesting the GitHub issue tracker to keep track of them, but it might not be enabled.
17:12:45 <myname> int-e: well, to sell users you better treat them well enough
17:13:18 <int-e> myname: No, you just have to make sure they don't leave in troves.
17:13:26 <myname> i recently learned about a vrowser extension for managing subscriptions. no idea why that's not built-in
17:13:50 <kspalaiologos> google could just aswell wipe their arse with people's opinion
17:13:50 <myname> also, the search in watched videos does not include the description, which is stupid
17:15:29 <fizzie> `le/rn bug//Feel free to file bugs at https://github.com/fis/hackbot/issues
17:15:31 <int-e> Actually, I don't even have an account. My main gripe is having to turn off the "auto play" feature all the time.
17:15:32 <HackEso> Learned 'bug': Feel free to file bugs at https://github.com/fis/hackbot/issues
17:16:03 <myname> int-e: managing subscriptions without an account is practically impossible
17:16:10 <int-e> (Correction... I do have an account because the google account is for everything. But I don't sign in, so effectively I treat it as not having one.)
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17:16:22 <myname> kspalaiologos: what is C really useful for?
17:16:27 <int-e> myname: Well in contrast to you I don't care about subscriptions.
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17:16:45 <kspalaiologos> myname, it's a general purpose language, but now it's shoved down to systems programming
17:16:49 <int-e> myname: core dumps?
17:17:01 <HackEso> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
17:17:11 <int-e> Hah, I forgot about that one.
17:17:12 <HackEso> J started out as a synonym for I, but then branched out into an array of other uses.
17:18:15 <int-e> I sptted a feline in there.
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17:22:01 <int-e> myname: Ah, I found the cynical angle: If managing subscriptions is hard, then users spend more time on youtube.
17:25:21 <kspalaiologos> I just indirectly donate to my favourite content creators on youtube/twitch
17:25:24 <int-e> kspalaiologos: not ublock or umatrix?
17:27:05 <kspalaiologos> and I don't believe in non-irritating ads bullshit
17:28:42 <int-e> a truly non-intrusive ad would be one you don't notice
17:28:54 <int-e> which makes it clear that such a thing can't exist
17:29:15 <Taneb> int-e: or it relies on subliminal messaging
17:29:28 <Taneb> Like subtle product placement in movies
17:30:13 <int-e> Taneb: Sure, there's some potential for that (and I'm not sure how I feel about it.)
17:30:49 <Taneb> I'd prefer in-your-face adverts to some extent
17:31:44 <int-e> The whole idea of advertising is messed up.
17:33:30 <myname> int-e: the funny thing is, there are quite a few ads you most likelydon't notice
17:33:42 <myname> banner blindness is an interesting topic
17:33:48 <int-e> There's a conundrum though... if we could start over in the mid 90s, what would we have to do differently to end up with a web where creators are being paid, and where users are not being tracked nor exposed to advertisements?
17:34:34 <int-e> myname: I've noticed banner blindness. I have trouble with locating links in navigation bars. And that's despite heavy ad blocker use.
17:38:50 <myname> imo ads shoveled their own grave by the time layer ads became a thing
17:39:05 <myname> until this point, i never blocked any ads
17:39:11 <myname> but those were just too annoying
17:40:35 <int-e> myname: of course without ads, we wouldn't have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdi6E-qzS1c
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18:37:29 <arseniiv> <kmc> compromise on IPv5 => like the devil’s ratio pau = (pi + tau) / 2 :D
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18:45:47 <arseniiv> xkcd’s doing; some time ago I tried to make a character for it, https://i.postimg.cc/zGHFsbN7/pau-Screenshot-1873.png
18:46:30 <arseniiv> also I think I should post this here one more time: https://i.postimg.cc/Wz9tnJcy/mr-postman.png
18:46:54 <arseniiv> this is what I arguably feel when I see “<lambdabot> You don't have any messages”
18:51:46 <esowiki> [[I/D machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68712&oldid=67194 * Hex96 * (+15)
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18:55:34 <esowiki> [[IBC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68713&oldid=67616 * Hex96 * (+39) /* Examples */
18:55:41 <esowiki> [[IBC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68714&oldid=68713 * Hex96 * (+5) /* system 32 deleter */
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19:23:59 <esowiki> [[Hyperon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68715 * Hakerh400 * (+2744) +[[Hyperon]]
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19:25:03 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68716&oldid=68628 * Hakerh400 * (+14) +[[Hyperon]]
19:25:18 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68717&oldid=68538 * Hakerh400 * (+14) +[[Hyperon]]
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19:44:29 <int-e> Okay, I've achieved my PE goal... now all I need to do is stop looking at the site!
19:46:12 <int-e> not that kind of PE
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20:10:02 <fizzie> Heh, got a "your December performance in Google Search" report for esolangs.org. I don't think they've sent this before.
20:10:18 <fizzie> Apparently https://esolangs.org/wiki/C+ is our top growing page, which is a little sad.
20:10:27 <fizzie> (The Intcode article comes second.)
20:11:09 <fizzie> It also reveals we don't get that many visitors, but that's not really a surprise.
20:16:07 <int-e> How many of the visitors do not come via google?
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20:44:26 <mroman> b_jonas: how's your blsq trip going? What did you do with it? Did it work as intended?
20:44:39 <mroman> (I'm also customer feedback agent)
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21:00:59 <b_jonas> mroman: hello. I didn't really do anything with blsq apart from the few sentences that I tried on the irc channel
21:02:32 <b_jonas> I've been programming in python at work to process stupid tables with inconsistent data
21:05:12 <mroman> blsq's gonna help you with that
21:05:16 <mroman> that's what blsq is good at
21:05:53 <b_jonas> the hard part is not finding the inconsistencies, it's figuring out what the correct values in the table should be when the person who created those tables is my very busy boss so I have limited time getting answers from it
21:06:13 <b_jonas> and yes, blsq would probably also work for that, but I don't want to learn it
21:06:48 <b_jonas> though if you want, I can ask a few questions about whether some things are easy to do in blsq if you want to support such applications
21:08:12 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: which book? https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/ has multiple books:
21:08:35 <b_jonas> the Dictionary https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/dictionary/contents.htm which is made of two parts, a reference part in the right column and the essay part on the left;
21:08:57 <b_jonas> the Primer https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/primer/contents.htm is a tutorial by Ken Iverson in his crazy terse style;
21:09:14 <b_jonas> "J for C Programmerse" https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/jforc/contents.htm a more normal tutorial,
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21:09:28 <b_jonas> "Learning J" https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/learning/contents.htm a tutorial that I don't know,
21:09:36 <mroman> !blsq "678;37;43\n78;88;99"{';;;1cuj|iSh[+j_+';IC}Wl
21:09:42 <b_jonas> Phrases https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/phrases/contents.htm a very obsolete snippet collection
21:09:59 <b_jonas> and User https://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help901/user/contents.htm which documents the parts of the system that isn't the core language
21:10:44 <b_jonas> mroman: by the way, have you modified blsqbot so it can reply in private message (or in #esoteric-blah if you don't want private messages)?
21:10:48 <mroman> there was even a realworldburlesque article about working with csv data stuff.
21:11:17 <mroman> but that's on my list todo
21:11:17 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: IRC often helps with J, specifically the #jsoftware channel on freenode
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21:12:34 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: hello
21:13:24 <mroman> let me see how this IRC parsing works.
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21:13:35 <b_jonas> mroman: so anyway, here's some parts of what I did in my python scripts.
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21:14:31 <b_jonas> I read and write a CSV files that are encoded in UTF-16-LE with a byte order mark in the start, lines separated by LF or CRLF, fields separated by tab, fields can be quoted by double quotes in which case they can contain lf or crlf or double quotes escaped as two double quotes,
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21:15:14 <b_jonas> and in such quoted fields I want to keep the distinction between lf and crlf, but outside of quotes, I want to consider lf and crlf the same line separator;
21:16:08 <b_jonas> some (but not all) of these csv files have multiple tables in them, each one is followed by an empty line and starts with three header lines.
21:17:09 <b_jonas> I both read such files to a simple structure in memory and write such files, sometimes by modifying an existing file, sometimes by keeping the header from an existing file but discarding the rows and adding new ones.
21:17:58 <b_jonas> I detect most of the formatting errors, I verify that the columns that I care about are the correct ones by checking the column header, but also allow additional columns to the right of known columns and keep values in them.
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21:19:15 <b_jonas> mroman: so a question is, how do I read or write an UTF-16-LE text file in blsq, discarding the BOM on reading if there is one at the start, adding a BOM at the start for writing?
21:19:37 <mroman> uh. then don't use blsq
21:19:44 <mroman> I don't think it has bytewise stuff
21:19:55 <b_jonas> mroman: yes, it's unicode. UTF-16 is a simple unicode encoding.
21:20:29 <b_jonas> there's no bytewise stuff here
21:20:42 <b_jonas> I may want bytewise stuff for other applications, but not this one in particular
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21:22:08 <mroman> blsq just uses the encoding it was compiled with.
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21:35:01 <mroman> b_jonas: it should be able to respond in privmsgs now
21:37:21 <mroman> since I'm hosting it on my private machine it won't be up too often anyway though
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21:46:02 <esowiki> [[Lambdabot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68718&oldid=67236 * B jonas * (+111)
21:46:37 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: for lambdabot source, see https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot , which says darcs clone "http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot"
21:47:03 <b_jonas> and yes, it's used in other channels, such as in #haskell
21:48:25 <b_jonas> int-e points to a different repository. I wonder which is the right one
21:54:41 <b_jonas> "<myname> int-e: the funny thing is, there are quite a few ads you most likelydon't notice" => most of them, for me, though youtube actually has some quite noticable ones, more so than most other webpages that have ads
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23:40:35 <fizzie> The best argument against people talking about "C/C++" is to point out that it's undefined because it has a side effect on a scalar object that's unsequenced relative to a value computation using the value of the same scalar object (C18 6.5p2).
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02:36:01 <int-e> b_jonas: the wiki is wrong
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03:56:06 <oerjan> b_jonas: the haskell wiki lambdabot page hasn't been updated since 2013. i suspect the github is a better place to link to, although lambdabot may not have changed that much...
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08:36:57 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mscibett * New user account
08:41:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68719&oldid=68699 * Mscibett * (+183) /* Introductions */
08:41:54 <esowiki> [[SCAB computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68720&oldid=20053 * Mscibett * (-9) /* References */
08:42:23 <esowiki> [[SCAB computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68721&oldid=68720 * Mscibett * (+14) /* References */
08:43:59 <esowiki> [[TOGA computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68722&oldid=54351 * Mscibett * (+9) /* References */
08:56:41 <esowiki> [[Lambdabot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68723&oldid=68718 * B jonas * (+74)
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11:48:56 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68724&oldid=68346 * PaniniTheDeveloper * (-835)
11:53:19 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68725&oldid=68724 * PaniniTheDeveloper * (+12)
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12:22:12 <esowiki> [[Dd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68726&oldid=67887 * IFcoltransG * (+21) Tidied spelling and grammar
12:39:11 <esowiki> [[Dd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68727&oldid=68726 * IFcoltransG * (-78) Concision w.r.t. published vs. created
12:41:11 <esowiki> [[Dd]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68728&oldid=68727 * IFcoltransG * (+1) /* Syntax */ semantic capitalisation
12:42:17 <esowiki> [[Dd]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68729&oldid=68728 * IFcoltransG * (-3) /* dd */ fixed grammar
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13:44:34 <esowiki> [[Rotary Quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68730&oldid=68122 * A * (+62) /* Examples */
13:45:46 <esowiki> [[Dd]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68731&oldid=68729 * A * (+55) /* Polyglot iterating quine (2 languages) */
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14:11:04 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Mister14 * uploaded "[[File:FizzBuzzLang.png]]"
14:16:13 <esowiki> [[Hyperon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68733&oldid=68715 * Moon * (+2) correction
14:24:50 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0.5
14:24:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |domain error
14:24:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | .5 + .5
14:37:33 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
14:37:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |syntax error
14:37:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | a=.1+b=. 5 a
14:38:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |syntax error
14:38:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | (a=.1+b=.5)a
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14:46:06 <myname> what other outcome would there be?
14:47:52 <kspalaiologos> but it kinda makes no sense as I remembered that expressions are always evaluated rtl
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15:23:25 <rain1> hows everybody doing heer
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15:59:03 * FireFly isn't sure what the point of the remarks is
15:59:18 <fizzie> That remainds me of the quote from "man dc".
15:59:22 <fizzie> Describing the P instruction: "-- the sequence KSK0k1/_1Ss [ls*]Sxd0>x [256~Ssd0<x]dsxxsx[q]Sq[Lsd0>qaPlxx] dsxxsx0sqLqsxLxLK+k could also accomplish this function."
15:59:52 <fizzie> Less fancy characters, of course.
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17:44:16 <esowiki> [[Hyperon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68734&oldid=68733 * Hakerh400 * (-35)
18:04:59 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JimmyChaos * New user account
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18:33:48 <esowiki> [[User talk:Mscibett]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68735 * Hex96 * (+115) Created page with "Hello There new user! ~~~~"
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19:11:27 <esowiki> [[Talk:Drive-In Window]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68736&oldid=37311 * Hex96 * (+121)
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19:30:34 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68737&oldid=68719 * JimmyChaos * (+170) /* Introductions */
19:32:08 <esowiki> [[User:JimmyChaos]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68738 * JimmyChaos * (+86) Created page with "I am a young programmer who updated the Python interpreter for [[ZOMBIE]] to Python 3."
19:42:38 <esowiki> [[User:JimmyChaos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68739&oldid=68738 * JimmyChaos * (+93)
19:43:33 <esowiki> [[ZOMBIE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68740&oldid=65544 * JimmyChaos * (+131) /* External resources */
19:45:32 <esowiki> [[ZOMBIE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68741&oldid=68740 * JimmyChaos * (-2) /* External resources */
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21:17:21 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: because the dot is always parsed as part of the previous token, or as its own token if it's following a whitespace (or an apostrophe or the start of the line, but those are rare)
21:18:28 <b_jonas> dots and colons always stick to the token right before them, that's how there are so many builtins that are a punctuation or letter character followed by a dot or colon
21:18:52 <b_jonas> there are even a few tokens that end in multiple (dot or colon) inflection characters
22:30:12 <b_jonas> fungot, can you name a beaver-shaped pokémon?
22:30:12 <fungot> b_jonas: they say that water walking boots are better if you want to see the area around herself, much like looking on a blank scroll. nothing further then he fluttered-- till i scarcely more than a nymph.
22:31:36 <int-e> Well they did name a mythical creature.
22:32:08 <int-e> So that's pretty good for fungot's standards.
22:32:08 <fungot> int-e: elven cloaks cannot rust. the arm let go of the head and toss it with a unicorn.
22:32:16 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
22:32:25 <int-e> The style may have something to do with it though.
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00:56:50 <esowiki> [[User talk:Mscibett]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68742&oldid=68735 * JonoCode9374 * (+257)
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02:49:53 <esowiki> [[Rotary Quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68743&oldid=68730 * Oerjan * (+11) That fails condition 3. Let my rephrase it for clarity.
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11:08:46 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68744 * Oklomsy * (+106) Created page with "Robolang is a programming language made by [[User:Oklomsy|Oklomsy]] Robolang has a javascript interpreter."
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12:08:11 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68745&oldid=68744 * Oklomsy * (+996)
12:08:53 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68746&oldid=68745 * Oklomsy * (+3)
12:23:10 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68747&oldid=67894 * Oklomsy * (+220)
12:40:12 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68748&oldid=68747 * Oklomsy * (+0)
12:40:30 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68749&oldid=68746 * Oklomsy * (-2)
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12:41:24 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68750&oldid=68749 * Oklomsy * (+8)
12:43:34 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68751&oldid=68563 * Oklomsy * (+106)
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12:47:36 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68752&oldid=68750 * Oklomsy * (+107)
12:48:45 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68753&oldid=68752 * Oklomsy * (+7)
12:49:21 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68754&oldid=68753 * Oklomsy * (+8)
12:57:53 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68755&oldid=68748 * Oklomsy * (+222)
12:58:59 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68756&oldid=68755 * Oklomsy * (+7) /* News and Stuff */
13:06:03 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68757 * Oklomsy * (+24) Created page with "What is a talk page tho?"
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14:19:19 <Cale> kspalaiologos: which book?
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14:23:34 <kingoffrance> s/and I'm not smart enough to/but that's okay I have enough nerve and gall and arrogance and stubbornness to eventually/
14:25:26 <Taneb> s/\([a-z ']*\)\/\([a-z ']*\)/\2\/\1/
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14:28:41 <kingoffrance> `8ball is there such a thing as too much kingmanship?
15:03:42 <esowiki> [[Auld Lang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68758 * Idomdavis * (+5259) Created page with "'''Auld Lang''' is a [[Joke language list | joke]] [[esoteric programming language]] created by [http://domdavis.com Dom Davis]. It is similar to [[Brainfuck]], although some..."
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17:05:00 <esowiki> [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68759&oldid=68671 * Hex96 * (+230)
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18:35:34 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68760&oldid=67400 * Hex96 * (+19) /* Why so much? */
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18:37:54 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68761&oldid=68760 * Hex96 * (+130) /* Burn */
18:46:28 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68762&oldid=68761 * Fizzie * (+383) /* Any features to insert mathematical formulas like TeX style? */ Reply.
18:46:42 <fizzie> (Unrelated to previous.)
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19:12:05 <esowiki> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68763&oldid=67945 * Hex96 * (+317) /* Reverse engineering attempts */
19:12:20 <esowiki> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68764&oldid=68763 * Hex96 * (+2) /* a slightly more serious attempt */
19:15:48 <esowiki> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68765&oldid=68764 * Hex96 * (+514) /* a slightly more serious attempt */
19:16:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68766&oldid=68765 * Hex96 * (+1) /* a slightly more serious attempt */
19:18:44 <esowiki> [[Category:Posibly turing complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68767 * Hex96 * (+40) Created page with "the name suggests what this category is."
19:19:47 <esowiki> [[Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68768&oldid=67650 * Hex96 * (+37)
19:32:48 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68769&oldid=68701 * Fizzie * (+492) /* Wiki categorization */ new section
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23:37:58 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68770&oldid=68762 * Arseniiv * (+216) /* Any features to insert mathematical formulas like TeX style? */
23:39:55 <arseniiv_> fizzie: you did what? Thank you! The math plugin is like a present! (I hope. I used in at one other wiki and it worked quite right, it even understood many unicode characters in place of traditional TeX character names.)
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23:42:18 <fizzie> It's calling into MediaWiki/Wikipedia API to use Mathoid as a service. After a lot of reading and pondering, it seemed like that's allowed; and anyway it's not like our usage could even be noticed. Properly installing it and running a local instance seemed like an incredible pain.
23:43:06 <fizzie> There's also an Extension:SimpleMathJax which would've done it all client-side via MathJax, but it didn't look incredibly impressive. Math and MediaWiki was a big mess overall.
23:43:31 <fizzie> But it's come up multiple times, and really given the esolangs.org topics and audience, I think it's quite relevant.
23:45:52 <arseniiv> finally I would be able to make my pages totally incomprehensible yay :o
23:57:19 <arseniiv> unfortunately I have no good ideas recently
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11:09:35 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68771&oldid=68688 * JonoCode9374 * (+1653) /* Very WIP Reference List */
11:10:35 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68772&oldid=68757 * JonoCode9374 * (+193)
11:18:21 <wib_jonas> fungot, how many private airplanes and luxury yachts do you have?
11:18:21 <fungot> wib_jonas: tanko: samurai plate armor of the giant spider, all of the lords of death. you are boring, not only do these demons do physical damage by biting and by himself in the dark lord and named him the god seth. he hung this moneybag around louis' neck, claws, hooves, or you'll get the gods.
11:18:33 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
11:18:43 <fungot> Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018)
11:19:03 <wib_jonas> my hon. and learned friend fungot, how many private airplanes and luxury yachts do you have?
11:19:03 <fungot> wib_jonas: i will be with you, whatever. if anywhere, the problem many have in talking to operators now being handed to the treasury that the pay of the chief social worker, and the bill,
11:34:04 <kingoffrance> eh, i liked the moneybags around louis' neck part :/
12:28:03 <esowiki> [[///]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68773&oldid=68670 * CarlosLuna * (-4) Small improvement of the improved Thue-Morse sequence example
12:28:53 <esowiki> [[///]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68774&oldid=68773 * CarlosLuna * (-18) Small improvement of the improved Fibonacci sequence example
12:28:57 <fizzie> fungot: Do you think MPs should get free private airplanes and luxury yachts as compensation?
12:28:58 <fungot> fizzie: i can, in a kind, and users, value, resilience, that commitment is the backbone of the uk economy, and, together the higher personal care, the state, leaving the secretary of state in the bill that that person the government wish the transitional deal, saying any arrangements, the mere fact of information being put out to international competition, to prevent in scotland has benefited. the number of people, that is the
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12:29:55 <wib_jonas> "higher personal care", that's what the private airplane is?
12:30:21 <fizzie> I think broadly speaking that was a yes.
12:30:24 <Taneb> I think that's what having a masseuse on the private aeroplane is
12:30:53 <esowiki> [[User:CarlosLuna]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68775&oldid=68711 * CarlosLuna * (-26) Small improvements of the improved Thue-Morse and Fibonacci sequence examples
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12:39:39 <esowiki> [[User:CarlosLuna]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68776&oldid=68775 * CarlosLuna * (-8) Small improvements of the improved Thue-Morse and Fibonacci sequence examples
12:57:44 <wib_jonas> my hon. and learned friedn fungot, if a sports team uses a snake as their mascot, is that enough proof that they're secretly controlled by evil viccans or satanists?
12:57:45 <fungot> wib_jonas: i can be, mr secretary johnson, the only johnson, the last of the fnord document,
12:58:13 <wib_jonas> ^8-ball if a sports team uses a snake as their mascot, is that enough proof that they're secretly controlled by evil wiccans or satanists?
12:58:19 <wib_jonas> `8-ball if a sports team uses a snake as their mascot, is that enough proof that they're secretly controlled by evil wiccans or satanists?
12:58:25 <wib_jonas> =8-ball if a sports team uses a snake as their mascot, is that enough proof that they're secretly controlled by evil wiccans or satanists?
12:58:30 <wib_jonas> ?8-ball if a sports team uses a snake as their mascot, is that enough proof that they're secretly controlled by evil wiccans or satanists?
12:58:34 <wib_jonas> ?8ball if a sports team uses a snake as their mascot, is that enough proof that they're secretly controlled by evil wiccans or satanists?
12:59:13 <fizzie> A rather limited one to be sure.
12:59:20 <fizzie> (But at least it's deterministic.)
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13:20:03 <kingoffrance> `8ball is the "kane" (i think was his name) character of the nod side of the original command and conquer based on anton levay?
13:24:02 <wib_jonas> `8-ball Are the upgrades that Samus uses to enchance his arm cannon (long beam, charge beam, ice beam, wave beam, grapple beam, spazer beam, plasma beam) compatible with Megaman's arm cannon?
13:24:25 <kingoffrance> "his" ? i thought that was solved with that justin bailey thing
13:25:08 <kingoffrance> see, 8ball knows this, gave an appropriate answer
13:29:57 <kingoffrance> `8ball is tiberium the cause of global warming/etc.
13:43:58 <wib_jonas> `8-ball On contrary, latinum is the cause of global warming/etc.
13:43:59 <HackEso> Concentrate and ask again.
13:49:24 <arseniiv> `8ball Is my cat today pretty annoying?
13:56:03 <int-e> Do you have a different cat each day?
13:56:23 <int-e> (And if not: how do you know?)
13:58:02 <wib_jonas> int-e: these days vets implant an RFID proximity token into cats, so you can tell that it's the same cat if the RFID-capable cat flap lets them into the house
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14:04:55 <fizzie> Unless they've gone to visit the neighborhood hacker cat to get that chip cloned.
14:09:59 <wib_jonas> fizzie: they don't do that, because they want to be the only one who can come into the house, so that they can eat their pray without being bothered by other cats. that's why they bring animals into your house in first place.
14:34:48 <fizzie> I've been told the reason for bringing half-alive or dead critters back is, they've noticed you're so terrible at hunting, you never seem to be catching anything, so they're trying to teach you how it's done.
14:59:27 <int-e> fizzie: Huh, that made no sense to me.
14:59:40 <int-e> (I'm assuming lack of context.)
15:00:55 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68777&oldid=68772 * A * (+188)
15:02:45 <esowiki> [[Category:Posibly turing complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68778&oldid=68767 * A * (+10) Both a typo and a duplicate
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15:19:09 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68779&oldid=68777 * A * (+2)
15:20:55 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68780&oldid=68779 * A * (-1)
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16:17:30 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68781&oldid=68769 * Hex96 * (+35) /* Wiki categorization */
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18:38:28 <b_jonas> fungot, how much blood is there in a churchmouse?
18:38:29 <fungot> b_jonas: of the three of us have, for the first time, the hon. and learned friend the minister for the work he is now undertaking to restore that section.
18:39:37 <kspalaiologos> int-e, I've encountered a tiny bummer when coming back to the MM stuff
18:39:48 <kspalaiologos> about infinite celled brainfuck to finite celled brainfuck reduction
18:40:07 <kspalaiologos> I know how to reduce finite tape to finite tape (but smaller) brainfuck
18:40:21 <kspalaiologos> whereas infinite tape requires calculating infinite coefficients upfront
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18:42:41 <b_jonas> fungot, do you mine bitcoins?
18:42:41 <fungot> b_jonas: i will have to check the foreign office. she is indeed a good many of the care of fnord peers, and the working group.
18:45:17 <fungot> kspalaiologos: on the one side, that the charter to the law of the uk anyway, to just focus on the overseas territories. i was in the house,
18:45:33 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl* youtube
18:45:34 <int-e> kspalaiologos: Going from infinite cells to finite cells will require some variable length trickery, but is doable.
18:46:51 <int-e> Things like this: [>] skips over any number of non-zero cells.
18:47:56 <kspalaiologos> writing a prime function in brainfuck aint that hard
18:48:21 <int-e> Uh, no, this shouldn't involve computing prime numbers.
18:50:14 <esowiki> [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68782&oldid=68759 * Hex96 * (+298) /* other programs */ new section
18:51:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68783&oldid=68782 * Hex96 * (+125) /* Even Faster Counter */
19:08:05 <b_jonas> tea is ready, my hon. and learned friend fungot. would you like some lemon juice or milk with it?
19:08:06 <fungot> b_jonas: i have, the loss, absence, the committee of selection, and we have the other amendment, and with, cheltenham, the uks. scotland, of course, in the public,
19:10:10 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 7.38906
19:10:49 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 7.38906 20.0855 54.5982
19:11:33 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |value error: e
19:12:22 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ill-formed number
19:12:39 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 2.71828
19:12:51 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 20.0855
19:12:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 4 27 256
19:14:39 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 4 6 8
19:14:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |syntax error
19:14:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | ~2 3 4
19:15:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |need input
19:15:54 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |need input
19:15:58 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |need input
19:17:02 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 0 0
19:17:03 <FireFly> What part about the ~ behaviour do you find unclear from the vocabulary?
19:17:49 <FireFly> no? https://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/d220v.htm it's an adverb, it's reflex
19:17:52 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 7.38906 20.0855 54.5982
19:17:57 <FireFly> > u~ y ↔ y u y . For example, ^~ 3 is 27, and +/~ i. n is an addition table.
19:17:59 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:27: error: parse error on input ‘,’
19:18:37 <j-bot> FireFly: 1 2 3 4 5
19:19:03 <kspalaiologos> just the fact that it's an adverb was absent in my head but it's back here
19:19:13 <FireFly> ~. and ~ are different things
19:19:46 <FireFly> ~. is a verb, and removes duplicates, keeping only unique items. ~ is an adverb, and modifies the verb before it (reflex in the monadic case, flip in the dyadic case)
19:20:24 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: ┌─┬─────┐
19:20:24 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: │$│1 2 3│
19:20:24 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: └─┴─────┘
19:21:37 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 10 1 10 1
19:21:37 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 10 1 10 1 10
19:21:37 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 10 1 10 1
19:21:37 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 10 1 10 1 10
19:21:44 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 10 1 10 1
19:21:44 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 10 1 10 1 10
19:22:01 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 10 1 10 1
19:22:01 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 10 1 10 1 10
19:23:56 <b_jonas> that only works if you use his name, and a colon after the statement
19:23:59 <j-bot> b_jonas, cleared b_jonas,#esoteric
19:24:47 <j-bot> b_jonas, cleared b_jonas,#esoteric
19:24:50 <j-bot> b_jonas: 'v' (1 : 0) :.((u: 652) (1 : 0))
19:24:50 <j-bot> b_jonas: '(', (": m), ' ', (": y), ')'
19:24:50 <j-bot> b_jonas: '(', (": x) ,' ', (": m) ,' ', (": y), ')'
19:24:50 <j-bot> b_jonas: '(', (": m), ' ', (": y), ')'
19:24:51 <j-bot> b_jonas: '(', (": x) ,' ', (": m) ,' ', (": y), ')'
19:25:08 <b_jonas> ^ ah, that's some crazy default assignment from Firefly's library
19:25:13 <b_jonas> should use a different name
19:25:17 <j-bot> b_jonas: 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1
19:25:23 <FireFly> (actually tangentstorm's library)
19:25:28 <j-bot> b_jonas: |value error: k
19:25:34 <j-bot> b_jonas: |ask later
19:25:42 <FireFly> that reminds me that I need to clear a bunch of these things up
19:25:54 <j-bot> b_jonas, cleared b_jonas,#esoteric
19:25:56 <j-bot> b_jonas: |value error: k
19:26:32 <kspalaiologos> I think I may understand J at a very basic level by now
19:27:26 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 2 3 4 1
19:27:39 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
19:28:05 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: wrt ;: '$ 1 2 3' <- yeah, the vector of numbers is a single token (which I guess is the surprising bit?)
19:28:48 <kspalaiologos> I wonder did anyone make a collection of useful snippets
19:29:44 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: try to use J to find (a) the largest number in this array, (b) the second largest number in this array: _0.772 0.492 _1.108 0.971 _1.131 _0.155 0.951 _0.069 1.500 _0.326 0.449 _1.901 _1.433 _0.352
19:29:53 <arseniiv> (dear fungot what is a cocategory?)
19:29:53 <fungot> arseniiv: is the hon. and learned friend the minister for a very powerful and is damning. it was absolutely for the european union have in fnord relationships, the women of the uk deserve to have the full support of the british government, the british government, the british government to the illegal wildlife trade, the government have
19:30:07 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
19:30:13 <arseniiv> (dear fungot what is a cocategory really?)
19:30:13 <fungot> arseniiv: parsing: unexpected end of file ( index: 12, row: 1, col: 3)
19:30:59 <kspalaiologos> https://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/loopless_code_i_verbs_have_r.htm#_Toc191734331
19:31:10 <FireFly> you often don't really want to iterate or loop explicitly in J; it's an array-oriented language, so often the more idiomatic way to approach problems is by working on the entire array at once in different ways
19:31:57 <FireFly> (well, like, the implementation will at some level perform a loop of course, but you often don't really reason about it in a "loop" way)
19:32:26 <b_jonas> the answer for (b) should be 0.971 by the way
19:32:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |syntax error
19:32:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | I need to map it all to the>operator
19:33:26 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 2 3
19:33:32 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 0 0
19:37:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: a1 := ]`[@.(2&>@[)
19:37:16 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: a: = ]`[@.(2&>@[)
19:37:24 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
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19:38:05 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
19:38:08 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |domain error: a
19:38:08 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | 8 a 4
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19:40:00 <FireFly> huh that's a pretty cute implementation of maximum
19:40:17 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: if you just do @.> instead, that approach for defining maximum works
19:40:59 <b_jonas> [ s=: _0.772 0.492 _1.108 0.971 _1.131 _0.155 0.951 _0.069 1.500 _0.326 0.449 _1.901 _1.433 _0.352
19:41:01 <FireFly> since x (g@.f) y will run (x f y) to decide which verb of the gerund to apply
19:41:45 <FireFly> kspalaiologos: so, right line of thinking there at least, I think :)
19:41:45 <j-bot> b_jonas: 9 3 10 1 11 6 2 5 0 7 4 13 12 8
19:43:25 <b_jonas> only that doesn't work well if there are equal elements
19:44:03 <b_jonas> this can be fixed if you compare indexes for equal elements, but it gets much uglier
19:44:39 <FireFly> huh, well that's not the approach I expected :p
19:45:24 <b_jonas> of course not, I'm not giving away the easiest solution right after asking a question
19:45:52 <FireFly> it's a cute approach though, thanks for showing it
19:45:53 <b_jonas> it's only like six characters anyway
19:48:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 2.5 2.33333 2.25
19:48:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 3.5 3.33333 3.25
19:48:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 4.5 4.33333 4.25
19:49:18 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 5 6 7
19:50:16 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |spelling error
19:50:16 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | max:=(]`[@.>)/
19:50:16 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | ^
19:50:21 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
19:51:02 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: are you sure? try it on that array that I gave
19:51:14 <b_jonas> _0.772 0.492 _1.108 0.971 _1.131 _0.155 0.951 _0.069 1.500 _0.326 0.449 _1.901 _1.433 _0.352
19:51:18 <kspalaiologos> [ s=: _0.772 0.492 _1.108 0.971 _1.131 _0.155 0.951 _0.069 1.500 _0.326 0.449 _1.901 _1.433 _0.352
19:51:18 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
19:51:24 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1.5
19:54:04 <int-e> lovely spam, oh wonderful spam
19:56:31 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: of course, finding the second largest is harder
19:56:43 <FireFly> #jsoftware might be a better fit for learning J than #esoteric is
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20:02:33 <b_jonas> fungot, what color of lightsabre are you using?
20:02:33 <fungot> b_jonas: syntax-unquote et al would be a window log in bitchx and i abused the scheme macro system. it is very useful and powerful. but imho more important is how much of the rest of the world
20:03:28 <int-e> still waiting for the rainbow colored lightsabre
20:06:29 <esowiki> [[Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68784&oldid=68768 * Moon * (+1) fix
20:07:04 <esowiki> [[Category:Possibly turing complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68785 * Moon * (+0) quickly make blank cat
20:07:53 <esowiki> [[Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68786&oldid=68784 * Moon * (-38) actually, nvm, delete cat
20:08:13 <esowiki> [[Category:Posibly turing complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68787&oldid=68778 * Moon * (+17) In need of deletion from site.
20:09:00 <esowiki> [[Category:Possibly turing complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68788&oldid=68785 * Moon * (+16) Pending deletion by administrator.
20:09:38 <b_jonas> fungot, what condiments do you eat with your hot dog
20:09:38 <fungot> b_jonas: egg-drop vehicle? just wondering about sxm :) i use the wrong number."
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21:23:12 <fizzie> fungot: Eggdrop is a bot framework thing.
21:23:12 <fungot> fizzie: i have a linux computer doesn't need xp manuals, and because i don't
21:27:56 <int-e> fungot: will you upgrade to Windows 10?
21:27:56 <fungot> int-e: i've just never heard that. but from a proper command-processor??
21:28:24 <int-e> fungot: Good point; I see the appeal of sticking with the command processor.
21:28:24 <fungot> int-e: is that wrong? ( just to look at
21:30:53 <b_jonas> fungot, at most how many electric moves can a Voltorb know right after you catch it in the wild?
21:30:53 <fungot> b_jonas: you have to mess around with o to create the first hello by bouncing it off some people...
21:31:33 <LKoen> b_jonas: I'd say 1 in the very first games, and today there probably isn't a limit anymore
21:32:03 <LKoen> actually it might even be zero in the first games
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22:25:11 <kspalaiologos> I've been writing a plugin for my friend's MC server - generic stuff, random teleport, antigrief
22:25:45 <kspalaiologos> It kinda worked but then the server hanged and crashed with terrible lagspikes
22:26:06 <kspalaiologos> Obviously at first everyone thought it was the world generating
22:26:49 <int-e> . o O ( Monte Carlo. Master of Ceremony. Mini-Cassette. )
22:26:56 <kspalaiologos> I looked at the code and nearly shit my pants because there was new Thread().run(); instead of new Thread().start();
22:26:57 <int-e> b_jonas: Presumably.
22:27:06 <kmc> kspalaiologos: what's the differece
22:27:36 <kmc> i can't say i've ever shit my pants while writing Java
22:30:26 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: you still haven't solved the previous one. what's the second largest number in that array?
22:30:30 <int-e> Hah, kmc should have their own ideas what "mc" stands for.
22:31:22 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: right, so do that in J. it's pretty short.
22:31:36 <kspalaiologos> I'm writing on mobile so I'll test it in the channel
22:32:27 <b_jonas> it's like 6 characters once you already defined the array s
22:32:34 <b_jonas> shoulnd't be hard to test on the channel
22:35:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |spelling error
22:35:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | bruh:=\:~
22:35:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | ^
22:35:37 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
22:38:24 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
22:39:53 <HackEso> ls(1) - list directory contents \ ls(1p) - list directory contents \ ls(1hackeso) - no description \ ls(8glibc) - File Attributes \ ls(8jevalbot) - show the name of all persistent sessions
22:39:55 <b_jonas> there is an ls command isn't there?
22:40:29 <b_jonas> I think it's still on your session
22:40:41 <j-bot> b_jonas, copied b_jonas,#esoteric from b_jonas,kspalaiologos
22:40:45 <j-bot> b_jonas: |value error: a
22:40:49 <j-bot> b_jonas: |value error: a
22:40:54 <b_jonas> j-bot load: kspalaiologos,
22:40:54 <j-bot> b_jonas, copied b_jonas,#esoteric from kspalaiologos,#esoteric
22:41:01 <j-bot> b_jonas: _0.772 0.492 _1.108 0.971 _1.131 _0.155 0.951 _0.069 1.5 _0.326 0.449 _1.901 _1.433 _0.352
22:41:04 <b_jonas> it was still in your j-bot session
22:41:10 <b_jonas> you just had to type [ a s
22:44:34 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: solve http://wiki.math.bme.hu/view/Informatika1-2010/Hazi5
22:45:19 <b_jonas> [ s0=: 69 7 8 28 18 92 61 41 24 9 72 56
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22:46:33 <b_jonas> chunk them to distinct groups of length 3, so the first grtoup is [69, 7, 8], the second is [28,18,92], the third is [61,41,24] etc, compute the product of the three numbers in each of those groups, and the sum of those products
22:46:50 <b_jonas> just compute the list of products
22:47:07 <b_jonas> output should be 3864 46368 60024 36288
22:47:24 <b_jonas> but make it work for longer input vectors too, like the other examples on that page
22:47:44 <b_jonas> then solve http://wiki.math.bme.hu/view/Informatika1-2010/Hazi4
22:49:47 <b_jonas> [ m1=: _2]\ 270 294 337 357 390 414 457 477 510 534 577 597 630 654 697 717 750 774 817 837 870 894 937 957 990 1014 1057 1077 1110 1134 1230 1254 1338 1362
22:49:50 <b_jonas> [ m2=: _2]\ 319 567 366 539 540 714 545 809 780 954 785 1055 900 1074 905 1169 1025 1280 1140 1324
22:50:06 <b_jonas> (copy them with "j-bot load: b_jonas," if you want)
22:50:49 <b_jonas> m1 are pairs of times from a railway timetable from town A to B, first in the pair is when the train departs from A (in minutes from midnight), second is when the train arrives in town B
22:51:02 <b_jonas> similarly m2 is timetable from B to C
22:51:51 <b_jonas> you want to arrive to C at time g or before, when is the latest you can start from A, assuming it takes no time to transfer from one train to another in B
22:52:22 <b_jonas> solution should work for other inputs too of course
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23:06:37 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: third problem. you have a set of piles of pebbles, represented by a list of the number of pebbles in each pile, order of the list doesn't matter. in each step, you take one pebble from each pile and make a new pile from them.
23:07:22 <b_jonas> compute the state after a step, then iterate that. for example, if you start from (10), then the next state is (9 1), then (8 2), then (7 1 2), then (6 1 3).
23:07:43 <b_jonas> Use (7 3) as the starting state and iterate until you get the fixed point (4 3 2 1)
23:08:23 <b_jonas> then, if you want something more tricky, generate all possible partitions of 10 pebbles, and prove with a computation that they each go to the fixed point (4 3 2 1) eventually.
23:08:44 <b_jonas> find all cycles for 12 pebbles instead of 10.
23:11:28 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68789&oldid=68780 * JonoCode9374 * (+207)
23:28:38 <esowiki> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68790&oldid=66685 * Smjg * (+2) /* TonyBrown148's attempt (2 instructions currently) */ what was presumably meant
00:16:59 <int-e> fungot: what's your favorite Python indentation depth?
00:17:00 <fungot> int-e: it's full of stars
00:18:31 <int-e> (For some reason I'm using 3, meaning that's what I configured the python mode to use. And I'm wondering why.)
00:22:37 <int-e> And I can't think of a good reason... so I guess I'll switch to 4. :)
00:23:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * *berlinquin * New user account
00:28:41 <zzo38> Kjugobe's Trick {1UU} Instant ;; Choose one-- ;; - Change the text of target spell by replacing all instances of one color word, land type word, creature type word, or non-power/toughness counter word with another of same kind. ;; - Target spell gains split second until it leaves the stack. ;; - Target spell loses all subtypes and supertypes. ;; Flashback {2U} ;; Affinity for permanents named Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe
00:30:10 <fizzie> fungot: How do you indent Python with stars?
00:30:10 <fungot> fizzie: most european educational systems have that, i return to walker? problem is im poorly equiped theorethically. didnt listen in algorithms and such in scheme.
00:31:30 <zzo38> Do you like this cards I make up?
00:32:24 <int-e> Karatsuba's Trick {MMMAASS}. Calculation. Multiply two linear polynomials in a single variable.
00:33:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68791&oldid=68737 * *berlinquin * (+301)
00:36:22 <zzo38> What is "MMMAASS"?
00:38:10 <int-e> multiply, addition, subtraction
00:38:29 <int-e> err, multiplication (to fit the grammar of the rest)
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01:14:55 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68792&oldid=68754 * IFcoltransG * (+172) Categories
01:16:54 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68793&oldid=68622 * IFcoltransG * (-13) Formatting: removed pre
01:20:16 <esowiki> [[Echo Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68794&oldid=66993 * Pppery * (+5)
01:20:45 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68795&oldid=68793 * IFcoltransG * (+91) Categories
01:21:52 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68796&oldid=68795 * IFcoltransG * (-13) Re-removed pre after accidentally the whole thing
01:22:24 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68797&oldid=68796 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Missing quote mark
01:23:41 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68798&oldid=68797 * IFcoltransG * (+0) 'High-level' category spelling
01:34:19 <zzo38> Do you have a proper comment of Magic: the Gathering cards that I made up?
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02:48:32 <zzo38> The inventor of farbfeld format suggests compressing pictures using bzip2, and says it gives good results. In my experience, it is usually better compression than PNG, but worse than JPEG. However, some things that help are to not compress the header, and depending on the picture Paeth conversion may also help, and flipping/rotation the picture might help.
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04:27:37 <pikhq> zzo38: I am somewhat curious how e.g. xz would perform for it
04:28:16 <pikhq> Also, given Farbfeld's whole deal, if something vaguely like PNG's filters mixed with more modern compression could do
04:28:32 <pikhq> (though I understand Farbfeld itself not doing it -- it's counter to the format's goals)
04:43:10 <zzo38> pikhq: I have tried xz; it is sometimes better and sometimes worse, although it helps a bit to change the alignment settings
04:49:40 <zzo38> But it would seem to me that compression specifically for pictures would work better. My idea was for the file to start with the header and then a sequence of filters to apply, and then the compressed picture data.
04:50:48 <zzo38> (These filters may include rotation, indexed colours, predictions, YCoCg, etc)
04:51:58 <zzo38> I personally have no need to store farbfeld pictures on disk, compressed or otherwise. I use farbfeld only as an intermediate format in pipes, which I think is a good use for it and farbfeld is a good format for that use.
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09:43:22 <\oren\> I've updated my font to include the newest letters in Latin Extended D
09:46:20 <oerjan> those look pretty new, aka square
09:48:51 <int-e> (my irssi/screen combination shows an empty message)
09:50:51 <esowiki> [[Cactusi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68799&oldid=59165 * IFcoltransG * (+54) /* Explanation */ Misc edits to spelling etc
09:51:06 <\oren\> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/299702207270486016/665490091178721281/unknown.png
09:51:44 <\oren\> also added were some of the characters in sitelen pona and some superscript letters that don't exist in unicode
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11:07:22 <b_jonas> there's a "Latin Extended D"?
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12:48:59 <kspalaiologos> http://kspalaiologos.baselinux.net/doc/ips_filtered.txt
12:49:29 <kspalaiologos> I wonder how much does an attack of this duty cost
12:51:06 <\oren\> why would anyone ddos you?
12:56:29 <int-e> Run of the mill botnet based DDoS, can't be that expensive?
12:56:33 <FireFly> Do you respond to ICMP ECHO?
12:57:04 <FireFly> My prgmr VPS got hit once, or rather I suspect it was used for a reflection attack targetting another target
12:57:14 <FireFly> but it effectively acted as a DDoS of my VPS as well
12:57:33 <FireFly> so if it's something like that, you might not have been the intended target, but rather just used as utility
12:58:13 <FireFly> (that was the day I learned to configure iptables :p)
12:59:33 <int-e> kspalaiologos: "Booter" services come quite cheap, really. Should be no more than $10 really.
12:59:54 <int-e> Hmm, so much "really".
13:00:42 <kspalaiologos> my soft has been denying them but the server eventually died for some bizzare reason
13:02:04 <int-e> Hmm. If it's a customized attack it'll be more expensive, or free if they have their own botnet *shrugs*.
13:02:32 <kspalaiologos> but the suspects, as stupid as they are can manage buying a ddos
13:02:32 <int-e> It's not rocket science. Also your friend's botnet is your botnet, right?
13:03:00 <int-e> They might just hang out with the right crowd.
13:03:48 <kspalaiologos> especially in the night when no one was really using the service
13:04:17 <kspalaiologos> disk is full because of log garbage and other stuff
13:04:44 <int-e> Yeah no clue what drives such people.
13:05:36 <kspalaiologos> I would understand if they actually caused some damaghe
13:06:23 <kspalaiologos> I'm not a saint too, but I'm not buying botnets and right after exploitation and leaving something for the owner contact them
13:08:38 <kspalaiologos> I remember when my friend sent me a link to some subsite of MEN
13:09:07 <kspalaiologos> some guy (possibly on appetrinceship) hosted a random number generator written in JS
13:10:29 <int-e> Of course, bitcoin mining is just generating random numbers at high speed.
13:10:32 <kspalaiologos> my first dirty thought was just bringing it down because it was useless
13:10:43 <kspalaiologos> and no one would really punish me for bringing down such thing
13:10:52 <kspalaiologos> in the response there was actually an old version of Apache
13:11:27 <kspalaiologos> and the server sent partial request HTTP code so effectively I leaked some memory on the serverside
13:11:49 <kspalaiologos> no reply until this day, but it seems they patched it
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15:09:45 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: see the logs, I told some after you left yesterday
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15:15:40 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 64 70 22
15:18:14 <kspalaiologos> [ set=:64 70 22 78 88 100 36 49 53 70 53 85 35 87 18 72 99 74 30 99 19 72 10 100 59 9 99 80 27 56 42 71 94 51 64 47 12 23 9 30 13 91 71 61 18 5 4 60
15:18:15 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
15:18:25 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47
15:18:37 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47
15:18:43 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47
15:18:59 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
15:21:22 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1 1
15:21:25 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 0 0
15:21:25 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1 0
15:21:25 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1 1
15:21:34 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 0 0
15:21:34 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1 0
15:21:34 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 1 1
15:21:53 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 0 0
15:21:53 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 0 0
15:21:53 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 0 0
15:21:53 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 0 0
15:21:54 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 1 2 0
15:21:54 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 0 0
15:21:55 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: ...
15:22:02 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |value error: gosh
15:23:19 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |spelling error
15:23:19 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f=:monad:'(0{x)*(1{x)*(2{x)'
15:23:19 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | ^
15:23:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |index error
15:23:48 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f=:monad define(0{x)*(1{x)*(2 {x))
15:24:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |index error
15:24:07 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f=:(0{x)*(1{x)*(2 {x)
15:25:00 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |domain error
15:25:00 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f=:((0+y){x)*((1+y){x)*((2 +y){x)
15:25:18 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |domain error
15:25:18 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f=:monad :((0+y){x)*((1+y){x)*((2 +y){x)
15:25:31 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |domain error
15:25:31 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f=:dyad :((0+y){x)*((1+y){x)*((2 +y){x)
15:25:40 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |spelling error
15:25:40 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f =: dyad : ((0+y.){x.)*((1+y.){x.)*((2+y.){x.)
15:25:40 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | ^
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15:28:12 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 2 3
15:28:25 -!- LKoen has joined.
15:28:38 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
15:30:03 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |index error: f
15:30:03 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f 2(i.10)
15:30:09 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |index error: f
15:30:09 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f 2 i.10
15:30:14 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
15:30:21 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
15:30:25 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |index error: f
15:30:25 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f 0 z
15:33:53 <kspalaiologos> [ f =: ((0+(3*{.)){}.)*((1+(3*{.)){}.)*((2+(3*{.)){}.)
15:33:53 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |ok
15:34:03 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 120
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15:42:36 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |index error: f
15:42:36 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: | f 0 s
15:42:43 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0.420845
15:42:55 <int-e> can you two get a room
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16:49:24 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: try in #jsoftware or #esoteric-blah
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17:09:46 <arseniiv> <lambdabot> You don't have any messages => :′((((((((
17:13:20 <int-e> @tell arseniiv Maybe you should seek happiness elsewhere.
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18:37:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: M:tG rules update bulletin is out, https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/theros-beyond-death-update-bulletin-2020-01-10
18:37:25 <b_jonas> also the release notes for the new set
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18:59:30 <zzo38> I read the rule update bulletin.
18:59:50 <zzo38> Once the new rules are available I will want to download it, though.
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19:41:21 <zzo38> How I thought version ten internet addresses should work is, there are sixteen octets. If the first twelve octets are all zero then it is a version 4 address with the same meaning as a version 4 address. If the first octet is less than 128 then it is various kind of specials (network specials, application specials, operating system specials, etc). Each customer will have 2^32 addresses which should be more than enough.
19:43:57 <int-e> zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_mapped_address#IPv4-mapped_IPv6_addresses
19:44:13 <int-e> The prefix is not 0, but the idea exists.
19:46:06 <zzo38> I think the way it is done in IPv6 is messy, with multiple classes of such addresses, an unusual notation that is different from normal IPv6 notation, etc.
19:47:19 <zzo38> Sometimes there is a use for multiple classes, but usually it shouldn't care.
19:50:12 <int-e> I believe they consciously switched from octets to nybbles for the benefit of reverse DNS.
19:53:12 <int-e> Also https://xkcd.com/927/ applies equally well for standards that just try to do things "right".
19:53:13 <zzo38> (e.g. anything that can map version 4 addresses will do so; if it doesn't then it is just treated as a version 6 address passed to the next device on the network (such as the router, modem, ISP, etc); if the ISP supports this then they might have their own address prefix for such purpose and 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 is treated as an alias for it.)
19:59:56 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: int-e killed it so that you don't spam the channel :-)
20:00:10 <b_jonas> he couldn't just kick it from this channel
20:03:12 <zzo38> I think another problem of version 6 internet is that some protocols might not expect the address to contain a colon. With my idea it doesn't have that problem, and furthermore you can use version 4 and 10 addresses together if it is treated as a big-endian number, so the high 96-bits are all zero.
20:13:57 <int-e> b_jonas is fibbing.
20:15:37 <int-e> it could be another bot that doesn't know how to reconnect
20:16:09 <zzo38> Orb of Magical Defenses {3} Legendary Artifact ;; {(2/W)(2/W)}, {T}, Sacrifice ~, tap a land you control, tap a creature you control: Create seven 1/1 white Gargoyle creature tokens with flying and bands with other Gargoyle tokens. Use only if a creature is attacking you and the top card of your graveyard is a nonland card. ;; Retrace
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21:01:08 <arseniiv> <int-e> b_jonas is fibbing. => btw was that word named in honor of our great Fibonacci
21:02:54 <int-e> arseniiv: It's a word made for false etymology if you ask me.
21:03:27 <zzo38> It doesn't seems to be, except for a use in poetry which is not applicable to that.
21:03:46 <int-e> zzo38: Just embrace the counterfactual.
21:04:03 <arseniiv> int-e: I think “ask” too really is “ack” and derives all its semantic might from Ackermann
21:06:30 <int-e> arseniiv: I'm not sure I want to follow that path.
21:06:39 <arseniiv> traces of the history can be seen in a proverb: “one asks, other acks”, obviously it means the other asks too, people just love asking, so the proverb has some applicability, even if I apocryphed it right now
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21:49:13 <lambdabot> https://oeis.org/A027884 Figaro's opening aria in 'Le Nozze di Figaro' by Mo...
21:49:13 <lambdabot> [5,10,20,30,36,43,640,231,100,91,1003]
21:49:25 <b_jonas> it doesn't have those extra terms
21:49:45 <b_jonas> not according to http://oeis.org/A027884
21:50:23 <b_jonas> those terms are from A027885
21:50:47 <b_jonas> are you like searching for "A027784" and concatenating the terms from all sequences that match?
21:59:42 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/Prefix-free serialization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68800 * Hakerh400 * (+13772) Prefix-free serialization
22:01:05 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68801&oldid=68717 * Hakerh400 * (+103) Add link to article
22:01:28 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68802&oldid=68801 * Hakerh400 * (-26)
22:02:56 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/Prefix-free serialization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68803&oldid=68800 * Hakerh400 * (+1)
22:26:58 <zzo38> Do you like this cards I make up? Do you make up a card too?
22:38:24 <zzo38> How to make a list of .so files that another .so file links with?
22:38:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: try objdump -x filename.so
22:39:00 <fizzie> Doesn't ldd do that too?
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23:54:39 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: you could have solved the problems locally and now just copy the solutiosn
23:56:16 <kspalaiologos> But someone more experienced watching gives me (false?) feeling of the possibility someone eventually will point me the better direction
00:10:38 <b_jonas> though it works better if you ask specific questions or hints
00:10:55 <b_jonas> tell what you're stuck with or what doesn't work
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00:27:02 <zzo38> I want to minimize dependencies of TeXnicard; it already uses SQLite, Ghostscript, and PCRE; so if I add further dependencies I should add ones which are already used by Ghostscript, if possible, I think.
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00:48:24 <zzo38> I want to support PK format fonts in TeXnicard, and it seem that FreeType doesn't implement that format. Well, I can implement my own; I have done it before.
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01:41:54 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68804&oldid=67931 * DmilkaSTD * (-125)
01:42:15 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68805&oldid=68804 * DmilkaSTD * (+4)
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02:18:07 <esowiki> [[NewFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68806 * DmilkaSTD * (+415) Created page with "NewFuck is another brainfuck derivative. The operations changes everytime you make a new project. == Possible operations == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Brainfuck operation !! Po..."
02:19:11 <esowiki> [[NewFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68807&oldid=68806 * DmilkaSTD * (+1)
02:26:46 <esowiki> [[NewFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68808&oldid=68807 * DmilkaSTD * (+463)
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04:47:45 <kmc> has anyone made a brainfuck variant which allows direct system calls?
04:48:08 <kmc> for example say the ! command executes a syscall where the syscall number and arguments are given by the value under the head and the next six
04:48:13 <kmc> and puts the return value under the head
04:48:44 <kmc> to be actually useful you would also need a way to get real machine-level pointers to brainfuck cells, or some other way to use syscalls which have pointer arguments
04:51:40 <kmc> you could just say that the address of the first memory cell is in the first memory cell when the program starts
04:51:45 <kmc> or something like that
04:58:53 <FreeFull> Or you could translate 0 into a pointer to the first cell, 1 into a pointer to the second, and so on
04:59:16 <kmc> except that some arguments are pointers and some aren't
04:59:24 <kmc> and it would need to know about each syscall in that case
04:59:37 <kmc> or there may even be cases where it could be a pointer or not according to the semantics of the call
04:59:51 <FreeFull> I think the interpreter would have to know about the syscalls anyway
05:01:00 <FreeFull> So it knows how many inputs to take and how many outputs to provide. Unless you always have it do 6 arguments and ignore the extra ones
05:01:28 <kmc> on linux anyway, I think it will work fine that way
05:02:01 <kmc> the syscall ABI is pretty simple
05:02:05 <FreeFull> And you'd need some way to deal with structs
05:02:49 <kmc> yeah the brainfuck code would need to manually construct the appropriate struct layout on the stack
05:02:52 <kmc> and then get a pointer to it
05:02:55 <kmc> s/stack/tape/
05:03:10 <kmc> it'd be a pain in the ass but
05:03:14 <kmc> this is esoprogramming
05:06:16 <imode> what's a _good_ alternative to syscalls, anyway.
05:09:37 <zzo38> You can also use calls for some kind of VM. I invented (but did not implement) a way to use Glk with Befunge, for example.
05:15:34 <kmc> what is Glk?
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05:19:29 <zzo38> It is a API for setting up text windows for I/O especially in text adventure games. It also supports displaying pictures, sounds, music, file I/O, and date/time.
05:26:37 <zzo38> It is a C API, although there is also a dispatch layer which uses a standardized format for arguments and uses numbers to identify each function (although a few functions cannot be dispatched, including the dispatching function itself).
05:32:40 <zzo38> Glulx is a VM which is mainly used with Glk (although the design allows implementations to be made with other I/O systems too), but also has some other functions included, such as the ability to save the entire VM memory and stack to a file, and built-in instructions for searching (linear, binary, or linked).
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09:03:01 <zzo38> Now loading font metric files is implemented in TeXnicard.
09:06:37 <zzo38> It might be useful to add some extensions beyond what TeX uses, such as a margin character (like the boundary character it is not displayed; it can be used in kerning for hanging punctuation). Possibly some others too, but I don't know which ones. Possibly a table of accented characters, and maybe large character set support, maybe
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09:44:36 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:Quine common program structure.png]]": Quine - common program structure
09:45:36 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1
09:45:45 <j-bot> kspalaiologos: |value error: set
09:51:25 <zzo38> What task is that you will need to solve?
10:11:41 <zzo38> Recovering Cards {3} Instant ;; Put target non-basic non-creature non-planeswalker non-Equipment non-Vehicle card from your graveyard on top of your library. ;; Retrace ;; Cycling {3}
10:52:08 <HackEso> This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. Nobody likes this.
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13:08:19 <esowiki> [[User talk:*berlinquin]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68810 * Hex96 * (+101) Created page with "hello! ~~~~"
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13:28:02 <b_jonas> Is Taneb actually Tony Hawk?
13:28:35 <fizzie> Just because they both start with "T", I don't think that's enough evidence.
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13:35:22 <Taneb> b_jonas: why do you ask?
13:36:43 <fizzie> Maybe they saw you do some sick [INSERT SKATEBOARDING TERMINLOGOY]s.
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14:12:18 <b_jonas> Taneb: I was watching GDQ and it has a skateboarding game that has a cutscene that shows a likeness of Tony Hawk
14:12:36 <b_jonas> I probably connected it to you because of that list
14:12:54 <b_jonas> ``` cat wisdom/*people*taneb*
14:12:55 <HackEso> cat: 'wisdom/*people*taneb*': No such file or directory
14:13:01 <b_jonas> ``` cat wisdom/*taneb*not*
14:13:02 <HackEso> cat: 'wisdom/*taneb*not*': No such file or directory
14:13:15 <b_jonas> ``` cat /hackenv/wisdom/*taneb*not*
14:13:16 <HackEso> Taneb is not elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond, Queen Elizabeth the first, or anyone older than Queen Elizabeth the Second. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
14:18:20 <Taneb> Anyway, I am not Tony Hawk, I can't even skateboard
14:37:19 <b_jonas> the mystery thickens, who is Taneb then?
14:54:43 <arseniiv> could one person be different people simultaneously?
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15:47:01 <fizzie> I think quite often these things turn out to have been some sort of a collective, like Nicolas Bourbaki.
15:47:35 <b_jonas> fizzie: which things? Taneb? or Tony Hawk?
15:47:57 <b_jonas> or a rabbi? or Queen Elizabeth the Second? that would explain how she reigns for so long.
15:48:15 <fizzie> I was thinking of Taneb, but maybe some of those others too.
15:49:02 <b_jonas> Tony Hawk can't be a very large collective since he fits on a single skateboard and in a single helmet
15:59:30 <Taneb> If I was a collective I'd probably be more active
16:00:11 <b_jonas> Taneb: maybe you're a collective representing a secret organization, which is why you're not too active?
16:00:32 <Taneb> b_jonas: I do not think that quite works out
16:01:58 <kingoffrance> thats not a bad fortune, you can work with that
16:03:47 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: ok, that's a better guess, because many people think that James Bond is a collective, or an inheritable title
16:17:43 <fungot> kspalaiologos: the variable " foobar"
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18:28:13 <zzo38> I saw one program has the following license terms: This program is free and open source under the MIT license. Additionally, any discordian pope may automatically grant themselves a license under the WTFPL, as desired.
18:35:16 <fizzie> Since WTFPL allows any relicensing, and since there are many discordian popes ("every man, woman and child on this Earth is a genuine and authorized pope"), it probably means it's not hard to get a copy of that program under any other license either.
18:44:55 <b_jonas> Is Taneb a discordian pope?
18:50:22 <kmc> I assume so
18:50:27 <kmc> it's opt-out
18:55:52 <Taneb> I haven't knowingly opted out
18:56:25 <Taneb> That said, I haven't knowingly opted out of any other sort of papity
18:57:51 <kmc> I think most of them are opt-in
18:58:03 <kmc> I'm also not sure if there is a formal procedure to opt out of Discordianism popehood
18:58:31 <kmc> I suppose I did that and became a mome instead
18:58:44 <kmc> I had the official card in my wallet for a long time
18:58:53 <kmc> along with a card listing the axioms of ZFC in Metamath notation
18:59:05 <kmc> (which also included propositional and predicate logic on the backside as a prerequisite)
18:59:07 <int-e> > map (pred . pred) "pope"
18:59:11 <kmc> I used to be such a nerd
18:59:14 <kmc> I still am, but I used to, too
19:00:21 <kmc> that was around the time of my GEB phase
19:00:25 <kmc> everyone has a GEB phase, right?
19:02:49 <myname> technically, you need to opt-in to discordianism, or you don't
19:04:14 <esowiki> [[UnoScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68811 * *berlinquin * (+2508) Created page with "'''UnoScript''' is a stack-based, interpreted language inspired by the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uno_(card_game) UNO card game]. It aims to be as general-purpose and usab..."
19:13:05 <esowiki> [[UnoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68812&oldid=68811 * *berlinquin * (+99) Add categories
19:14:53 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68813&oldid=68716 * *berlinquin * (+16) /* U */
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19:33:29 <b_jonas> kmc: yes. and a Smullyan phase too. the Smullyan phase lasts longer.
19:37:36 <kmc> Smullyan is cool
19:37:46 <kmc> and I still think GEB is a good book, it's just that the speculative parts are... quite speculative
19:37:58 <kmc> it's interesting but it doesn't explain everything about the world like I thought it did when I was 16
19:38:25 <kmc> and the part which teaches metamathematics is both accessable and precise. it's not dumbed down
19:40:40 <arseniiv> <kmc> everyone has a GEB phase, right? => mmmaybe. My one was pretty shallow and maybe not a phase at all. I was even lazy to solve any question from there as I was more or less learned on logic and lazy in general. I read the book, found stories amusing, took something from the dual part but I suppose not at a face value. Complex questions have complex answers, would I expect different even some eight (I think?) years ago?..
19:41:33 <arseniiv> oh, Smullyan phase should be cooler maybe yes maybe definitely but I hadn’t read his books at the right time, only various excerpts
19:41:51 <arseniiv> <kmc> and I still think GEB is a good book, it's just that the speculative parts are... quite speculative => nailed it
19:48:28 <arseniiv> I’d like an accessible book on spinors and some simplified quantum-theoretical things, but essentially they should be quite separable. Spinors are interesting in their own way, and in a sense they are even applicable to rare mundane problems, though their transformations, i. e. spin groups (and there are sometimes miscommunication in people occasionally calling elements of a spin group, a spinor, which it isn’t), as I was to say, spin groups are m
19:48:28 <arseniiv> ore applicable as they act on vectors too and quaternions in rotating 3D are precisely the 3-dimensional spin group, as are complex numbers a 2D one and split-quaternions a 4D one etc. etc. clifford algebras blah blah
19:49:33 <arseniiv> <kmc> along with a card listing the axioms of ZFC in Metamath notation => whyy?
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20:03:24 <int-e> . o O ( Yay, the moment your program has been running for half an hour and you realise you forgot to compile it with optimizations enabled )
20:03:55 <int-e> (it was supposed to finish in 15 minutes ;) )
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21:43:29 <int-e> Such intuitive code... http://paste.debian.net/1125756/
21:50:16 <int-e> And I should use one more variable rather than using the second half of one of those registers.
21:53:25 <int-e> (But it's also so much faster than the naive code it replaced, a factor of 30 for what I've been doing.)
21:54:17 <int-e> (fortunately I don't have to worry about portability :) )
21:54:41 <int-e> requirement: "runs on my PC"
21:58:12 <esowiki> [[NewFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68814&oldid=68808 * DmilkaSTD * (+96)
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22:03:37 <b_jonas> int-e: my way to handle portability is to just make it give a reasonable compile time #error when there's no implementation for how you're compiling
22:03:58 <b_jonas> or, if that's hard, a runtime error with a reasonable message
22:07:07 <kmc> it's also not hard to use that gcc feature I forgot the name of
22:07:19 <kmc> which selects between multiple versions of a function at load time
22:07:25 <kmc> based on cpu flags
22:07:31 <kmc> it might be more of a glibc feature, but anyway
22:07:39 <kmc> it's good to have a portable fallback anyway for testing
22:08:01 <kmc> it does introduce a function pointer indirection though
22:08:09 <kmc> you can do the same thing with dynamic code patching but that's more complicated
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22:10:48 <int-e> 'GNU indirect functions are an extension of ELF that allows you to make a decision about which implementation of a function to use at [dynamic] link time.'
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22:11:20 <int-e> I didn't know what it was called either but I did come across the concept at some point.
22:14:29 <b_jonas> kmc: sure but you usually don't want to actualy write the other implementation
22:15:12 <kmc> sounds like int-e already did
22:15:24 <kmc> typically you would do a portable version first, then the optimized
22:15:26 <kmc> and I think it's good to have a reference implementation anyway
22:15:29 <kmc> for testing
22:15:41 <b_jonas> I wouldn't. I would do premature optimization. whether it's a part I need to optimize or not.
22:15:44 <kmc> if you have both then it's very easy to test the fancy vector code just by throwing random inputs and comparing outputs
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22:15:59 <kmc> on top of that the portable code is probably easier to read if someone wants to understand what's going on
22:16:07 <kmc> if it doesn't have to be fast at all, it can be very clear
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22:16:54 <int-e> kmc: it's still around as a reference implementation anyway
22:18:57 <int-e> which is deliberately simple and not efficient, even for processors without fancy carryless multiplication instructions: http://paste.debian.net/1125758/ (and still not quite portable; it's missing the UINT64_C thingy)
22:22:14 <kmc> isn't uint64_t standard in C99 and later?
22:22:24 <kmc> what is this code for?
22:22:39 <int-e> kmc: UINT64_C is the macro for making a uint64_t literal.
22:22:58 <kmc> is it something like #define UINT64_C(x) x ## ull
22:23:07 <kmc> I never knew that was needed
22:23:08 <int-e> Because you can't really know whether the suffix should be empty, ul or ull...
22:23:14 <kmc> yay for C :eyeroll:
22:23:26 <kmc> I was just going to ask if you need a ull actually
22:23:38 <kmc> better put ullllll just in case
22:23:50 <int-e> s/empty/U/ (those are capital, aren't they?
22:24:19 <fizzie> UINT64_C makes a uint_least64_t constant, actually.
22:24:32 <fizzie> I've always found that a little odd, but that's how it is.
22:24:41 <kmc> you could cast it
22:24:51 <int-e> I guess there are corner cases where that becomes an issue.
22:25:03 <fizzie> I assume it's mostly because uint64_t isn't required to exist.
22:25:10 <fizzie> But uint_least64_t is.
22:25:17 <kmc> interesting
22:25:37 <fizzie> It's required to be defined, but only if the implementation provides a suitable type.
22:26:50 <fizzie> C18 7.20.1.1 Exact-width integer types: "These types are optional. However, if an implementation provides integer types with widths of 8, 16, 32, or 64 bits, no padding bits, and (for the signed types) that have a two's complement representation, it shall define the corresponding typedef names."
22:28:56 <int-e> Yeah that sounds like C.
22:29:48 <fizzie> I'm not really sure what UINT64_C and friends are for, I guess they're just supposed to look nicer than the corresponding cast.
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22:30:31 <int-e> does POSIX amend this?
22:30:45 <fizzie> I think POSIX might require 8, 16, 32 and 64, yes.
22:31:29 <fizzie> Oh, heh. Actually, only 8, 16 and 32.
22:32:31 <fizzie> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/stdint.h.html "[CX] The following types are required: int8_t, int16_t, int32_t, uint8_t, uint16_t, uint32_t. If an implementation provides integer types with width 64 that meet these requirements, then the following types are required: int64_t, uint64_t"
22:33:19 <int-e> Seems sane enough, honestly... 32 bit platforms are not that long gone, probably still lingering in may corners :)
22:33:36 <fizzie> Thing is, uint_least64_t and uint_fast64_t are still mandatory.
22:33:55 <int-e> Yeah that is strange :)
22:34:28 <int-e> . o O ( diverging realities are fun )
22:35:01 <fizzie> I guess maybe the reasoning was, the implementation might have to do something weird to support at-least-64-bit types, and might have a harder time providing the exact-width type.
22:35:21 <kmc> I mean the Intel 8051 8-bit architecture from 1980 is still around
22:35:29 <kmc> so yeah 32 bit is still common
22:35:45 <kmc> 32 bit is only starting to become common in embedded
22:36:02 <int-e> Hmm I suspect POSIX never worried about 8 bit architectures :)
22:36:12 <kmc> yeah but they do have C compilers
22:36:14 <kmc> to varying degrees
22:36:19 <int-e> 16 bit though, hmm. Tricky :)
22:36:33 <kmc> the PIC XC8 compiler has a "short long" type :)
22:36:54 <fizzie> Is that a 24-bit type?
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22:37:10 <int-e> Yes, C accomodates all sorts of niches, which goes a long way towards explaining their reluctance to mandate types. I'm really surprised to hear about uint_least64_t being madatory.
22:37:24 <kmc> avr-gcc has it too, but calls it something sensible: __uint24
22:37:52 <int-e> I suppose short long isn't worse than long double.
22:37:59 <fizzie> The Motorola DSP56K C compiler has a 24-bit 'int' and a 48-bit 'long'.
22:38:00 <kmc> gcc is more principled than most embedded compilers about how it handles extensions, syntactically
22:38:01 <int-e> (intel's 10 byte version)
22:38:09 <fizzie> (And a 24-bit 'char' as well.)
22:38:13 <kmc> is it 128 bit on ppc?
22:38:17 <int-e> (now mostly extinct because of SSE)
22:40:02 <fizzie> I think GCC on PPC did the double-double trick for long double.
22:41:19 <fizzie> Where your extended-precision type is actually just two double-precision floats, organized so that you get about the same range as a regular double, but more or less double the precision.
22:41:26 <int-e> (IIRC Knuth covers this topic but I skipped that part.)
22:43:18 <arseniiv> I was thinking about that some day but wasn’t very sharp to think it in any detail
22:44:52 <zzo38> I didn't know about GNU indirect functions.
22:46:47 <fizzie> Fun fact: the typing of (non-U-suffixed) octal/hexadecimal literals is different than those of decimal constants. On (e.g.) x86-64, 0x80000000 is an `unsigned int`, while 2147483648 is a `long`.
22:47:43 <fizzie> https://ideone.com/aLGNHI as a corollary.
22:48:41 <zzo38> I didn't know that either; why is that? Isn't there a U and L suffix so that you can use that to indicate it?
22:49:10 <fizzie> Yes, 2147483648U would be an unsigned int too.
22:49:46 <zzo38> (And, you can add a dot if you want a floating number.)
22:49:51 <fizzie> The way it works, the type (decimal, vs. octal/hexadecimal) and suffix (none, U, L, UL, LL, ULL) determine the possible list of types, and then the constant gets the first type on the list that it can be represented in.
22:50:39 <fizzie> `int`, `long` and `long long` is the list for unsuffixed decimal, but the list for unsuffixed octal/hexadecimal is `int`, `unsigned`, `long`, `unsigned long`, `long long`, `unsigned long long`.
22:50:41 <HackEso> int`,? No such file or directory
22:52:08 <zzo38> O, that is how it works.
22:53:35 <fizzie> The official reason is: "Unlike decimal constants, octal and hexadecimal constants too large to be `int`s are typed as `unsigned int` if within range of that type, since it is more likely that they represent bit patterns or masks, which are generally best treated as unsigned, rather than 'real' numbers."
22:54:34 <zzo38> OK, although that still look like strange to me, and even then perhaps it might should depend how many leading zeros too (does it count the leading zeros?)
22:55:36 <fizzie> Any (nonzero) amount of leading zeros makes a constant octal, so... kinda? But not really.
22:56:20 <zzo38> No, I mean additional leading zeros for a octal or hexadecimal constant (after the initial 0 or 0x)
22:57:22 <fizzie> Oh. No, those don't matter.
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00:32:17 <zzo38> Do you have any question and feature request of TeXnicard? I am working on writing TeXnicard so if anyone who is interested in it has some idea, then, I would like to your opinion of it please.
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00:35:05 <zzo38> Also, can any of the vector output formats of Ghostscript be converted to SVG?
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01:08:56 <kmc> zzo38: inkscape can open PDF and save SVG
01:11:14 <fizzie> It can also open EPS files.
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08:03:53 <zzo38> I saw a way to encode integers where first it starts with however many "1" bits of the length of the absolute value in bits, and then the sign, and then the bits in binary omitting the high bit (which is always set anyways). But I thought another way could be to encode the length using bijective binary instead of unary.
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10:38:21 <int-e> Ah, this is my kind of joke: "[...] needs JavaScript to function properly and provide you with a fast, stable experience. Please enable JavaScript or check your browser's settings."
10:39:53 <int-e> (Sometimes I miss the pre-Navigator WWW. (Before <blink>animated</blink> gifs.)
10:40:27 <int-e> And dometimes I miss closing parentheses.)
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10:58:29 <kingoffrance> what i miss is the bottle neck was e.g. my 28.8k modem; the text of the page would load, and then youd wait for the rest to load; as opposed to know, text might not appear until it does <unknown> and you get to sit and wait and watch <x requests> to <y> servers for <who knows what>
10:59:17 <kingoffrance> in the worst days of animated gif ads, etc. i recall the text would load and you could browse even before the images all did, etc.
11:49:35 <esowiki> [[FAKE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68815&oldid=65590 * Argv0 * (+291) /* Examples */ Added an example
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14:48:39 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: you gave a solution to the sum of 3-chunks problem, but I'm not sure if you actually understood how the rank conjunction work enough to be able to use it well in the future.
14:48:48 <wib_jonas> If you don't care about that part, you can solve the train timetable problem.
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15:30:53 <Taneb> I've had a possibly dumb idea and I'd like to know if it's been done already
15:31:46 <Taneb> Given a directed graph of labelled nodes, and a language, is there a sequence of connected nodes such that the labels of the sequence is a member of the language?
15:33:22 <int-e> it's called the intersection of a language with a regular language?
15:34:24 <int-e> For example, the intersection of a context-free language with a regular language is context-free.
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17:51:42 <esowiki> [[Esolang:General disclaimer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68816&oldid=67011 * DmilkaSTD * (-4)
17:52:54 <esowiki> [[Esolang:General disclaimer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68817&oldid=68816 * DmilkaSTD * (+48)
17:55:23 <esowiki> [[(HA)pple waITING]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68818&oldid=68076 * DmilkaSTD * (-1)
17:56:25 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68819&oldid=66194 * DmilkaSTD * (+12)
17:59:51 <esowiki> [[Elevator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68820&oldid=62021 * DmilkaSTD * (+28)
18:10:16 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68821 * DmilkaSTD * (+575) Created page with "Mind reader is a esolang with a binary instructions.<br> Each instruction has a length of 9 characters (9 BITS). This language has 2 variables (2 REGISTERS) called flow_regist..."
18:10:34 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68822&oldid=68821 * DmilkaSTD * (+12)
18:10:58 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68823&oldid=68822 * DmilkaSTD * (+2)
18:11:11 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68824&oldid=68823 * DmilkaSTD * (+4)
18:12:27 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68825&oldid=68824 * DmilkaSTD * (+29)
18:12:41 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68826&oldid=68825 * DmilkaSTD * (+18)
18:13:13 <esowiki> [[(HA)pple waITING]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68827&oldid=68818 * DmilkaSTD * (+47)
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18:24:23 <esowiki> [[Mind reader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68828&oldid=68826 * DmilkaSTD * (+183)
18:24:37 <esowiki> [[Talk:Burn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68829&oldid=68766 * Hex96 * (+69) /* a slightly more serious attempt */
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18:38:06 <esowiki> [[Shader state]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68830 * DmilkaSTD * (+137) Created page with "== In construction == This language is a page for the idea that I had. == Idea == A esolang that make shaders but like a Turing machine."
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20:23:17 <b_jonas> I made one of those in perl once
20:23:48 <b_jonas> but I didn't use it for anything useful, I just encoded the 12 days of christmas song with it
20:24:41 <b_jonas> https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=521169
20:26:20 <b_jonas> there are much better ways to compress that poem
20:27:23 <b_jonas> I'll have to write a 99 bottles of beer program in Consumer Society
20:28:04 <b_jonas> admittedly that's because I decided to add a simple syntax to print string literals to Consumer Society, for convenience of debugging
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20:47:55 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68831&oldid=67517 * Ashtons * (-1635) Redirected page to [[Language list]]
20:48:13 <esowiki> [[User:Ashtons]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68832&oldid=67028 * Ashtons * (-33)
20:49:23 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68833&oldid=68813 * Ashtons * (-23) /* P */
21:09:27 <zzo38> I might use the SQLite page cache in my own program, using SQLITE_CONFIG_GETPCACHE2 to access it. I will see if it is suitable, but my idea is to use for pictures that might be reused several times, so is useful to cache them.
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21:18:34 <fizzie> I think I used something more or less LZ77+Huffman to compress the NKIs for rfk86.
21:19:16 <b_jonas> by "something more or less LZ77+Huffman", do you mean deflate?
21:20:43 <fizzie> I don't think it was deflate in all the details (as in, the exact same bitstream format, and support for both static/dynamic Huffman trees), but algorithmically speaking sure, it would've been more or less equivalent.
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21:22:33 <fizzie> Oh, it's documented in the Perl script that compresses it.
21:28:32 <fizzie> It doesn't compress across messages at all, to make it possible to decompress only the selected NKOs (I thought it was NKI, but looks like it's NKO) so the compression rate isn't great, 18866 to 12093 bytes.
21:43:57 <b_jonas> fizzie: well, the main difference, as far as I know, is that deflate uses LZW as opposed to LZ77, where the difference is that in LZ77, you have literal bytes and repeats strictly alternating, whereas in LZW, literal bytes and repeats can come in any sequence. this means that in LZW, you need to have the bytes and the repeats in the same huffman tree, but it's still almost always a win.
21:44:23 <b_jonas> I think the advantage of LZ77 is mainly the simpler decompressor code
21:45:01 <b_jonas> but I admit I'm not following this whole compression technology too closely
21:45:40 <b_jonas> I'm just using various compressors and decompressors as black boxes, and know a little about their performance characteristics so I can decide when to use what.
21:50:06 <b_jonas> also, what's the point of learning it, when in a few decades, all compression will be obsolete because, people want to transfer and store everything encoded with strong cryptography, and every compression leaks information through side channels. we'll just be streaming full resolution videos uncompressed through wireless internet, because internet bandwidth will increase more quickly than the demand for
21:59:20 <zzo38> I made a implementation of robot find kitten in Glulx, and uses Huffman but not LZ77 (although there are some strings of multiple characters that are given a single Huffman code), because that is a function built in in Glulx.
22:01:13 <zzo38> (I implemented the compression myself (in JavaScript), although the decompression code is one that I didn't write.)
22:01:38 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/ticket.jpg - the C programmer's train ticket.
22:02:34 <zzo38> Is there any train station called VOID VOID VOID VOID?
22:02:47 <fizzie> I don't think so. At least in the UK.
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22:46:25 <b_jonas> zzo38: probably no, at least not in Europe, because none of bahn.de, oebb.at, sj.se, elvira.hu recognize it as a train station name. They suggest Voitsdorf.
22:46:52 <b_jonas> But I hear American towns sometimes have weirder names, so maybe it's a railway station over there
22:47:59 <fizzie> There's a Void-Vacon in France, but it doesn't seem to have a railway.
22:49:10 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void-Vacon - quite stubby.
22:50:06 <b_jonas> the conversations on this channel sometimes get surreal
22:50:33 <fizzie> It's a shame it's not just "Void", otherwise there could be some nice street signs on nearby roads with VOID → on them.
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22:52:00 <kingoffrance> eh, its a thing "nothing sucks like a vax" people love to find product names/etc. theres a page with various "unix" spottings for example
22:52:11 <fizzie> Not sure if those would just get stolen, which I understand is what happens to most amusing towns, like the town of Fucking in Austria.
22:52:21 <kingoffrance> i have seen a mop IIRC called "libman" which i am waiting for a library that deals with man pages to appear
22:53:01 <b_jonas> kingoffrance: no, libman would deal with men. if it dealt with manpages, that would be libroff or libmanpage or something like that
22:54:41 <b_jonas> kingoffrance: "UNIX" is not particularly surprising anymore, there's a car tyre company of that name here
22:56:58 <kingoffrance> i have a "boost" nutrition drink in front of me right now
22:58:08 <b_jonas> meh, it's easy when people choose reasonably common words for two different brands
22:58:27 <b_jonas> and also when it's two things called "Athena" or "Athene" because heck that goddess is so overused
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23:29:21 <kingoffrance> `8ball will b_jonas be punished for not sufficiently believing in Athena?
23:29:59 <b_jonas> how do I not sufficiently believe if I say that naming things of Athena is a mention rather than a use?
23:30:17 <kingoffrance> well thats a good answer, you were trying to point out the posers
23:37:25 <LKoen> today a coworker aksed me "I read a paper today stating 'magic the gathering is turing complete' and I had no idea what they meant, can you explain?"
23:37:45 <b_jonas> LKoen: we have a link to the more recent of those papers from the wiki
23:38:54 <b_jonas> link is near bottom of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:StackFlow
23:39:07 <b_jonas> we might need a proper article about Magic: the Gathering
23:40:28 <b_jonas> ask ais523 about details, especially why cute kittens are no longer involved
23:42:06 <b_jonas> or maybe kittens are still involved in ais523's construction
23:42:15 <b_jonas> but not in that other construction in those articles
23:46:14 <zzo38> I also set up a NNTP to discuss some of the stuff relating to Magic: the Gathering, including mathematical stuff such as Turing-completeness, and custom cards, and questions about game rules; not about the more common stuff such as deck construction and buying/selling cards and tournaments.
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02:27:30 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68834 * Truttle1 * (+293) Made a page for some reason
02:27:40 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68835&oldid=68834 * Truttle1 * (+0)
02:27:52 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68836&oldid=68835 * Truttle1 * (+5)
02:28:08 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68837&oldid=68836 * Truttle1 * (+2)
02:29:26 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Idle 00006.png]]"
02:30:01 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Idle 00001.png]]"
02:31:18 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68840&oldid=68837 * Truttle1 * (+60)
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02:53:05 <oerjan> hm esolangs.org seems down
02:58:17 <oerjan> and tunes is inexplicably _not_ serving plain text
02:59:22 <oerjan> oh well it's just mislabeled
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03:19:55 <fizzie> The esolangs.org logs server does this weird thing where it sometimes just hangs. Works now for me though.
03:20:21 <fizzie> I was supposed to upload a debug build with symbols so I could figure out what's up, but never did.
03:23:42 <oerjan> well the wiki is still down
03:24:19 <oerjan> so it's presumably a different problem.
03:24:35 <fizzie> I don't know about that. Both work for me.
03:26:59 <oerjan> hm downforeveryone* agrees with you.
03:27:59 <oerjan> as does my linux account. i guess i'm having DNS trouble again.
03:31:37 <oerjan> hm switching DNS server didn't help
03:42:42 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68841&oldid=68771 * JonoCode9374 * (+407)
03:43:29 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68842&oldid=68841 * JonoCode9374 * (+11) /* Terminology */
03:56:39 <zzo38> Another kind of font metric format could be, instead of the ligature/kerning and character info that TeX uses, to have the font design size and font parameters, and then a program used for rendering a sequence of characters in the font (some of which may have accent marks added), given as input the DPI, at size, left boundary type, right boundary type, and as output can execute instructions to move the cursor and to draw glyphs on the page.
03:57:09 <zzo38> This way it is possible to use multi-byte encodings, kerning and ligatures with accented letters, etc.
04:03:15 <zzo38> Is there a MIME type for PNG file storing CMYK data in place of RGBA?
04:09:21 <Lykaina> why would you store an imamge in cmyk?
04:12:49 <Lykaina> though i thought PNG was always RGBA
04:13:46 <zzo38> PNG is always RGBA. But is there a MIME type to indicate that it is meant to be interpreted as CMYK instead?
04:15:04 <zzo38> I don't know, but it is something that might be useful for something that I am making.
04:16:26 <Lykaina> make your on format based on netpbm?
04:17:30 <zzo38> NetPBM formats are not compressed.
04:17:34 <imode> can't you just shift the channels around and treat them as CMYK? the scales are the same, right?
04:18:55 <zzo38> Yes of course that is possible; I just wanted to know if there is a MIME type to indicate that it is doing that.
04:19:15 <Lykaina> iirc, 255 - R = C, and so on
04:20:39 <zzo38> Lykaina: If you do not include K, then yes, it is.
04:21:25 <Lykaina> how does the generation of K work?
04:29:10 <zzo38> I think there are a few different ways of doing it; in PostScript when using RGB colours on a CMYK device you can customize the way of doing that.
04:40:37 <zzo38> (You might also want to store a picture with more than four channels, such as Hexachrome, but I don't know what file formats would use such thing.)
04:41:53 <oerjan> hm now esolangs.org _sometimes_ loads.
04:56:45 <zzo38> I found something says that Magic: the Gathering cards are printed with CMYK, with a second layer of black for text and borders, and a underprinting layer for foil cards.
04:59:29 <zzo38> So, I would intend in future to add support for custom separations to TeXnicard, in order it is capable to make such things like this.
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05:52:04 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68843&oldid=68833 * Oerjan * (-1) HOW DARE YOU NOT COMPREHEND THIS PAGE'S SIMPLE SORTING SY oh hi ais523
05:53:35 <oerjan> admittedly ais523's errors are more logical than some of the others.
05:54:16 <oerjan> (including space in the sorting)
06:09:47 <oerjan> sometimes mediawiki's diff just makes me want to scream https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=%E2%99%A6&diff=68819&oldid=66194
06:11:11 <zzo38> What are you sorting?
06:12:20 <oerjan> ah good, it was only the last four characters.
06:13:43 <oerjan> zzo38: the language list
06:57:01 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68844&oldid=53889 * Zzo38 * (+343) Bohm's algorithms
06:57:18 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68845&oldid=68844 * Zzo38 * (+5)
08:22:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: PNG image storing CYMK => I don't see why you want a mime type for that. just put some new section into the png itself instead to indicate that.
08:33:24 <zzo38> TeXnicard needs to know whether a picture is RGB or CMYK before loading it, which it can know by the MIME type. However, the MIME type does not need to be determined only by the filename extension; it can be determined in other ways too.
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09:49:01 <oerjan> you may be onto something
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13:45:38 <myname> i think, we should rename CMYK to YMCK
13:46:19 <Taneb> Yan Magenta Cello Key?
13:47:00 <myname> didn't the K stand for black?
13:47:26 <Taneb> If it did then it would be CMYB
13:47:54 <Taneb> (I looked up on Wikipedia what K stood for before I wrote my comment)
13:53:29 <myname> why isn't it RGBK then?
13:54:06 <Taneb> Because that doesn't usually use the key plate?
13:54:15 <Taneb> Because it's for digital media rather than print
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14:21:40 <fizzie> I think there was some disagreement here recently about it still standing for blacK. The Wikipedia CMYK page has a [citation needed] tag next to "key".
14:22:00 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:CMYK_color_model#K:_Key_or_blacK
14:22:15 <fizzie> tl;dr "nobody knows, whatever"
14:23:10 <fizzie> Heh, there's a zzo38 comment there, didn't even notice.
14:25:37 <rain1> how is he so prolific
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15:28:48 <wib_jonas> I consider K standing for black. Except in Magic, where for some reason, B stands for black and U stands for blue and Q stands for untap. It would have been easier in Magic too if K stood for black and B for blue and U for untap, but it's too late for that now.
15:31:29 <wib_jonas> In esoteric context, it should be black, because in the SML/NG markup language from ICFP 2001 "http://cristal.inria.fr/ICFP2001/prog-contest/task.html", the letters "rgbcmykw" stand for the colors red green blue cyan magenta yellow black white respectively.
15:34:26 <fizzie> I think it should've been S for schwarz.
15:35:52 <myname> but wouldn't it be cmgs then?
15:36:24 <fizzie> . o O (Which languages have a different first letter for all of {red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, black, white}?)
15:36:46 <int-e> hmm, k-shield radius
15:38:08 <Taneb> Rosso, verde, azzurro, ciano, magenta, giallo, nero, bianco
15:39:18 <fizzie> Finnish manages a triple fail, because blue 'sininen' / cyan 'sinivihreä/syaani', black 'musta' / magenta 'magenta' and green 'vihreä' / white 'valkoinen' all share a first letter.
15:40:19 <Taneb> So, clearly, "B" should stand for "White"
15:41:06 <Taneb> (I've had to do a trick here which actually also works in English, saying "azure" instead of "blue")
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15:42:55 <myname> the strange thing is, cmyb would actually work
15:43:38 <int-e> Taneb: also белый (now why do I remember that word...)
15:43:55 <Taneb> int-e: I don't think that's either English or Italian
15:44:04 <int-e> Taneb: But it starts with a b.
15:44:31 <Taneb> I think it starts with a б
15:44:48 <HackEso> [U+0431 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BE]
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15:48:40 <arseniiv> be :D It could be jokingly read as “бе” with a palatalized /bʲ/ and it would be either a sheep imitation or a somewhat childish expression of mild disgust
15:50:56 <Taneb> A bit like "bah" in English?
15:53:22 <arseniiv> yeah. Also бэ, which is how the letter is pronounced today (and for quite a long time; I was surprised to know that some time ago it was pronounced with a palatalized consonant), is used for “bah” too
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16:02:22 <wib_jonas> fizzie: try https://www.omniglot.com/language/colours/index.php
16:02:47 <arseniiv> pronounced and named officially*, though sometimes people write бе as there is an unphonetic streak that in many cases е is used in place of э and doesn’t mean the prev. consonant is palatalized. Cumbersome, though maybe English orthography is still more complex. Written languages like English are good in that they often allow several spellings as “the right ones”, like with coordinates, co-ordinates or even coördinates. Here, those circum
16:02:47 <arseniiv> stances are very rare. People run themselves into a corner. One spelling reform back in IIRC sixties was cancelled because there was a loud protest to write several word classes in a more logical manner because they looked unpleasant. Uh, I’m certain those individuals would get accustomed to new spelling in no time
16:07:54 <int-e> Having experienced an orthography reform... it was exciting.
16:08:58 <int-e> (We had one in 1996, with a follow-up around 2004 that undid the most controversial aspects. But most of it stood the test of time. And yes, it involved allowing variant spellings.)
16:10:02 <wib_jonas> true, French modern orthography has some words where the spelling looks weird but at least it's phonetic. the best example is probably "aigüe", where the diæresis is used because otherwise the u would be silent.
16:10:09 <int-e> I'm not sure what variant spellings do to foreigners learning the language.
16:10:20 <int-e> I imagine it can be quite confusing.
16:11:05 <wib_jonas> int-e: what, like "ass" and "arse"? or all the -our words (color, neighbor, behavior, honor, odor, etc)?
16:11:05 <Taneb> I'm sher it woodent bee two confuzing
16:11:38 <wib_jonas> or dwarfs and dwarves, fairy and fairie and fae?
16:12:06 <arseniiv> if someone’s interested, one of the weird normative cases well-known today is the gender of “кофе” (coffee). Several centuries ago it pronounced and spelled like кофий and declined in a way normal for a masculine noun. Long story short, now its nom. sg. looks like a perfect case of a neuter gender noun like солнце, окно or e. g. какао (cocoa and cacao). In literary norm though its thought as indeclinable, and indeclinable
16:12:06 <arseniiv> nouns in a language heavily using declension is a thorn. But using кофе as a declinable neuter noun is frowned upon in the “literate” circles. Though finally dictionaries start to adopt the declinable variant, after decades and decades of use. Still, many snobs think they know better that even a normative dictionary
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16:13:49 <arseniiv> <int-e> I imagine it can be quite confusing. => maybe, but at least they wouldn’t be frowned upon if using at all times only one of them
16:14:01 <wib_jonas> I hope at one point the MTA decides to investigate the question on how the words "kisebb, zőlő, folyosó, köpeny" should be spelled. it's tricky because in some of those cases, both pronunciation is used.
16:15:41 <wib_jonas> the words "kisebb, szőlő, folyosó, köpeny"
16:16:31 <wib_jonas> then they also have to consider the cases where the pronunciation is clear, but despite that the spelling isn't, as in "bicikli/bicigli, kesztyű/keztyű"
16:18:05 <wib_jonas> alternate spelling variants hurt searchability of course
16:20:06 <wib_jonas> it's especially bad when at least one of the spelling variant is homographic with some other word.
16:22:13 <wib_jonas> my favorite is "mold" vs "mould", both of which can mean either a kind of fungus, or a container to shape something that you pour into as a liquid but then hardens. the latter is also called a "die", which has two other meanings, one of which is also spelled "dice".
16:24:46 <kmc> i like fungus
16:24:57 <kmc> and fungot
16:25:14 <wib_jonas> yes, cast is what you call when you shape an object by pouring it as a liquid into a mold or mould or die
16:25:34 <Taneb> It's also a word meaning to throw
16:27:52 <int-e> . o O ( The password of the minute is attention defici. )
16:28:38 <wib_jonas> another example is "draught" vs "draft"
16:28:49 <wib_jonas> both of which have way too many meanings
16:28:58 <wib_jonas> and for some of them, you can use either spelling
16:28:59 <int-e> Dearest creature in creation...
16:29:24 <int-e> The pronunciation of "draught" should be more naughty.
16:29:44 <wib_jonas> int-e: as in https://ozyandmillie.org/comic/ozy-and-millie-2103/ ?
16:30:21 <int-e> wib_jonas: Yes, like hat.
16:32:26 <wib_jonas> there's also some other systematic variant English spellings besides the -or/-our words: a lot of -ize/-ise and -ization/-isation words, some of which come up in programming too; a few -er/-re words including scepter/sceptre, specter/spectre, meter/metre, liter/litre.
16:33:32 <wib_jonas> also some -ice/-ise words, most commonly advice
16:35:21 <wib_jonas> I personally try to use -or, but "neighbor" and "behavior" are hard because the -our spelling is too much in my fingers; the -ize version, the -ice version, but I'm not sure about -er vs -re
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16:35:43 <wib_jonas> oh, there's saber/sabre among the -er/-re words
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18:01:02 <kingoffrance> http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=devil&Query=die
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18:02:52 <kmc> i have read that mice don't actually like cheese that much
18:03:36 <kmc> we got these no-kill mouse traps
18:03:48 <kmc> the English instructions suggest using peanut butter or cheese
18:03:57 <kmc> but the French and Spanish instructions suggest peanut butter or chocolate
18:05:31 <kingoffrance> well, english chocolate apparently is not as good, or french and spanish cheese is no good
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18:11:43 <kmc> given that set of 3 languages it's probably marketed for North America
18:11:50 <kmc> and American cheese is, objectively, terrible
18:11:58 <kmc> perhaps it's a kind of terrible that mice prefer to actual cheese, idk
18:12:18 <kmc> the mouse in our house seems to like brown rice and ramen noodles
18:12:35 <kmc> but lately it's lurking in the living room / workspace too
18:12:41 <kmc> I hope it's not stealing my wires for nests
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18:55:08 <arseniiv> <kingoffrance> http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=devil&Query=die => wow, what an article!
18:55:42 <kmc> Taneb: it's not CMYB because B was already for blue in RGB
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19:06:49 <fizzie> kmc: The mice you entice prefer mainly the rice?
19:22:33 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback (Archive)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68846 * Lebster * (+1881) Created page with "'''This page is an archive''' of the page for Psychairefatback, a language which I thought was cool and should be archived but that was removed by its creator. Here is the pag..."
19:23:20 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68847&oldid=68660 * Lebster * (+27) /* Languages I like */
19:35:48 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68848&oldid=68847 * Lebster * (+92)
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19:41:17 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68849&oldid=68848 * Lebster * (+39)
19:41:51 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68850&oldid=68849 * Lebster * (+311)
19:43:18 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68851&oldid=68850 * Lebster * (-227)
19:43:25 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68852&oldid=68851 * Lebster * (-84)
20:15:07 <esowiki> [[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68853 * Hakerh400 * (+2417) +[[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]]
20:16:46 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68854&oldid=68843 * Hakerh400 * (+40) +[[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]]
20:19:25 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68855&oldid=68802 * Hakerh400 * (+40)
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21:02:52 <zzo38> Fortunately, it is possible in PostScript to specify separations even if separations are not implemented, so even before I implement separations in TeXnicard it is still possible to specify the text separation like Magic: the Gathering uses such as by writing: [/Separation /Text /DeviceGray {1.0 exch sub}] setcolorspace
21:04:34 <zzo38> The article I read did not metion the shiny mark I see on some newer cards (although maybe I missed it). Do you know how that works? Is it another separation?
21:07:15 <b_jonas> zzo38: you don't mean the hologram seal at the bottom, right?
21:07:45 <zzo38> Actually I do mean the hologram seal at the bottom, I think
21:08:40 <b_jonas> I think that one is on all rares and mythics since they introduced the new frame
21:10:19 <b_jonas> which was in 2014 for the Magic 2015 set I think
21:11:25 <b_jonas> I believe they put that on cards so that they're more difficult to counterfeit, but not on all cards presumably to save printing costs
21:14:05 <zzo38> Yes, probably, but I was wondering how the printing of it works. Is it a separation, or is it just added to the entire rare sheet afterward, or something else? (Anyways, TeXnicard is not only for Magic: the Gathering, and is intended to contain nothing specific to Magic: the Gathering, and some people may use to make other card games too.)
21:14:49 <b_jonas> I don't knowhow it's added
21:19:12 <b_jonas> note that there's a different shiny seal at the bottom of some card sleeves
21:19:29 <b_jonas> its location and shape is different
21:19:38 <b_jonas> just in case you see those on photos of M:tG cards
21:23:47 <b_jonas> there's probably some info about the seal on cards in a Wizards article back in 2014 when it was introduced, but probably not about the print technology
22:17:27 <zzo38> Are you interested in this software?
22:17:41 <zzo38> Do you know someone who is?
22:17:59 <b_jonas> in TeXnicard? not really, because I don't want to create printed custom cards
22:18:42 <zzo38> Do you like to create custom cards without printing them? (It is meant to be usable for that, too.)
22:18:58 <b_jonas> not in a way where I create a full image mockup for that
22:19:05 <b_jonas> I created a very few as just text descriptions
22:19:30 <b_jonas> mostly as just thought experiments for what cards would or would not work
22:21:20 <zzo38> Yes, that works, although even with TeXnicard it would not require to render them; you can still create a card set and import/export them, query them, calculate statistics of them, make random packs, etc (I also intend to add a format for doing collaboration over NNTP, so that changes can be recorded using NNTP and commented on). MSE does similar thing but requires the card to be rendered to do anything at all.
22:22:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: what I should do is download and parse the text of all cards from Gatherer, plus download the text of all cards from Scryfall
22:22:24 <b_jonas> I started at one point but I was too lazy to finish
22:23:01 <b_jonas> and then once I get that, repeat it four times a year, once after each standard-legal set
22:23:33 <zzo38> Yes, I wanted that data too
22:37:01 <zzo38> What Magic: the Gathering cards did you make up (even just for experiment)?
22:52:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: https://esolangs.org/logs/2018-10.html#lsw
22:54:52 <b_jonas> and there's a green creature that you have to sacrifice when you control a creature with power greater than its power, but I couldn't get it to be a good card
22:55:04 <b_jonas> I mean a card that I'm satisfied with
22:57:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think I originally mentioned that card here: https://esolangs.org/logs/2015-10-06.html#loj
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05:09:51 <zzo38> b_jonas: I looked at that; I think is good, but did you have any more recently I mean. I did make some more recently
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06:26:29 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68856&oldid=68499 * JonoCode9374 * (+104)
06:27:57 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68857&oldid=68856 * JonoCode9374 * (+3644)
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16:23:06 <rain1> how cool is that google made a good quantum computer
16:42:47 <int-e> Isn't this 2 months old news?
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17:16:45 <Taneb> int-e: quantum computing doesn't allow for instantaneous communication
17:17:24 <int-e> Taneb: that's a huge relief
17:17:32 <Taneb> It takes about two months
17:18:10 <rain1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9_l8QASobI
17:18:33 <fizzie> If you bake a cupcake that has a hole in the middle, is it called a cupnut?
17:19:19 <Taneb> I think it's called not being very good at baking
17:19:27 <fizzie> It can't be a nutcake, because that's something else. But it could be a docake.
17:20:18 <int-e> why *is* it called a doughnut?
17:20:56 <int-e> I guess it relates to nuts and bolts.
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17:24:36 <Taneb> int-e: they originally put a nut in the middle
17:29:14 <Taneb> Hmm, I might be wrong
17:30:01 <int-e> 'The word nut is here used in the earlier sense of "small rounded cake or cookie".'
17:31:28 <int-e> So interestingly, the holes are not supported by the etymology.
17:34:05 <zzo38> Not all doughnuts have holes anyways
17:34:20 <zzo38> (Also not all of them are round; there are also long doughnuts.)
17:37:13 <rain1> the new fake donuts without holes are sold by liars
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17:43:19 <kmc> i'm still sad that wikipedia deleted my Category:Toroidal_foods
17:43:45 <rain1> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Toroidal_food
17:44:17 <zzo38> The doughnut in the photograph on Wiktionary does not have a hole; it does say a toroidal shape is common, but it isn't always.
17:45:24 <int-e> kmc: let me guess.. onion rings, calamari and do(ugh)nuts?
17:45:55 <kmc> and bagels, cheerios, froot loops
17:46:09 <kmc> bundt cake
17:46:14 <kmc> there's quite a few when you start thinking about it
17:46:28 <kmc> pineapple rings
17:46:54 <rain1> you coudl almost cut anything into shape
17:46:57 * kmc ponders rolling a toroidal burrito
17:47:00 <int-e> (macaroni is very topological)
18:02:00 <int-e> “No, ma’am, your dog is not gay. They sniff each other’s rear ends to introduce themselves. All dogs do it.”
18:02:36 <int-e> Hmm, that wasn't where I wanted to paste it. But no harm done, I suppose.
18:11:05 <kmc> speaking of annuli...
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18:17:28 <esowiki> [[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68858&oldid=68853 * Hakerh400 * (-27)
18:30:06 <kmc> great name
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00:38:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: no, none recently. I think less about M:tG than I used to, and don't much follow the newly published cards, and don't much like the changes they made
00:39:41 <zzo38> Which changes do you mean specifically?
00:41:08 <b_jonas> question. can you tell me about the state of Linux driver/software support of video cards these days? specifically, if I want to buy a video card into a new computer that I'll use as home desktop with Debian and that has an Intel cpu, but I don't need a particularly expensive or new video card (I care more about the motherboard and memory and cpu), then how do the three brands of video card compare?
00:42:10 <zzo38> I don't know; I purchased the computer I use now with Linux already installed.
00:42:22 <b_jonas> zzo38: too many new cards printed each year, and more importantly, too many cards printed or reprinted for supplementary products, with a confusing complexity of supplementary products over the standard-legal setse
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00:44:22 <zzo38> I don't really care much about whether or not they do that, although if it is confusing which are legal in different formats then it should be corrected to specify what it is clearly
00:44:30 <b_jonas> and many cards are increasingly graphically ugly, especially variant and promo reprints, but also just ordinary cards with special frames. the too many different special frames and variants make it confusingly noisy to look at cards.
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00:45:56 <b_jonas> the flagship of terrible graphic design is of course the Amonkhet Invocations, and the cheaper cards tend to have less of the crazy variants, but still
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00:46:15 <zzo38> Yes, I don't like the special frames either; I like the old style cards design (from Sixth Edition and older)
00:46:18 <b_jonas> I already didn't like the Zendikar full art lands, but there are just more and more of these
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00:48:37 <b_jonas> I do prefer the Kamigawa frame than the Urza frame to tell the truth, and I think even the normal version of the M2015 frame is better than the Urza frames,
00:49:11 <b_jonas> (I prefer the Kamigawa frame over the M2015 frame mostly because the M2015 title font is ugly)
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00:49:47 <b_jonas> but with all the variants they just can't keep a nice uniform clean style
00:50:19 <zzo38> Yes, I do think there are too many special variants
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00:51:32 <b_jonas> though I admit that the Urza frame artifact textbox with its colorful gems in the background does have a charm
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03:09:11 <esowiki> [[Bubbles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68859&oldid=67741 * IFcoltransG * (+2940) TC proof and mnemonics
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03:19:21 <esowiki> [[UnoScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68860&oldid=68812 * IFcoltransG * (+40) Added categories
03:27:13 <zzo38> Is there a way to make pclose() to terminate the child process instead of waiting?
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03:32:40 <imode> seems like using popen() isn't ideal when you want to kill it.
03:33:14 <esowiki> [[Keta]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68861&oldid=68842 * IFcoltransG * (+0) /* Terminology */ Spelling
03:33:30 <imode> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/548063/kill-a-process-started-with-popen
03:38:02 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68862&oldid=68861 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Put examples within one heading
03:40:43 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68863&oldid=67394 * IFcoltransG * (+4) /* #Esoteric */ added conjunction
04:22:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68864 * IFcoltransG * (+739) Created page with "===TC possibility=== Presumably, you could create a VM based on the brainfuck interpreter that was written in brainfuck, such that every time any command is executed, the VM f..."
04:25:56 <esowiki> [[Psychairefatback]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68865&oldid=68831 * IFcoltransG * (+13) Redirected to the archive of Psychairefatback
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04:49:00 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68866&oldid=52934 * IFcoltransG * (+275)
05:05:35 <esowiki> [[Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68867&oldid=65975 * IFcoltransG * (+827) Rewrote article to make sense (but still following philosophy)
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05:07:46 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68868&oldid=68866 * IFcoltransG * (+206) /* Request */
05:08:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68869&oldid=68868 * IFcoltransG * (+28) /* Request */
05:08:43 <esowiki> [[Lazy evaluation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68870&oldid=68867 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Formatting
05:24:55 <esowiki> [[Ora]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68871&oldid=20033 * IFcoltransG * (+39) Added a cat
05:25:26 <esowiki> [[2D-Reverse]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68872&oldid=36278 * IFcoltransG * (+39) Added a category
05:27:28 <esowiki> [[Generic 2D Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68873&oldid=46372 * IFcoltransG * (+79) Added cats
05:30:42 <esowiki> [[Generic 2D Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68874&oldid=59911 * IFcoltransG * (+80) Added categories
05:32:32 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68875&oldid=68854 * IFcoltransG * (+52) /* G */ Added two languages authors forgot to add
05:39:42 <esowiki> [[Niblet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68876&oldid=44703 * IFcoltransG * (+129) Added some cats and dead link template
05:42:56 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68877&oldid=68875 * IFcoltransG * (+13) /* S */ Shepherded the lost Stable language onto the page
05:43:49 <esowiki> [[Stable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68878&oldid=66415 * IFcoltransG * (+66) Categories
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07:50:37 <esowiki> [[Comp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68879&oldid=68702 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Capitalisation
07:51:32 <esowiki> [[Comp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68880&oldid=68879 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Capitalisation but actually this time.
07:52:43 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68881&oldid=68646 * IFcoltransG * (+53) /* The Ampersand */
07:52:52 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68882&oldid=68881 * IFcoltransG * (+95)
08:38:33 <zzo38> Can HTML form data be saved to a file, after it has been filled up, without submitting the form?
08:54:13 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68883&oldid=68882 * JonoCode9374 * (+225) /* The Ampersand */
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09:10:21 <esowiki> [[TOGA computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68884&oldid=68722 * IFcoltransG * (+57) Full proofread once-over
09:21:57 <esowiki> [[Schmuu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68885&oldid=55480 * IFcoltransG * (+69) Categories
09:33:53 <esowiki> [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68886&oldid=41354 * IFcoltransG * (-37) Categories and format of code
09:36:46 <esowiki> [[Eitherf*ck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68887&oldid=50854 * IFcoltransG * (+41) Categories
09:39:22 <esowiki> [[Mandelbrot set]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68888&oldid=62496 * IFcoltransG * (+28) Program forms category
09:42:50 <esowiki> [[Countercall]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68889&oldid=53612 * IFcoltransG * (+20) /* Computational class */ fixed link
09:50:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68890&oldid=68883 * IFcoltransG * (+159)
09:50:31 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68891&oldid=68890 * IFcoltransG * (+95)
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13:16:41 <wib_jonas> zzo38: re pclose terminate the process: I don't think so. if you want such fine control, I think you have to reimplement popen.
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14:54:17 <int-e> fungot: what is the job of a "chief purpose officer"?
14:54:17 <fungot> int-e: oh stack yes... i know
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15:13:37 <Taneb> fungot: do you actually parse the messages that invoke you to seed your response or do you just say whatever?
15:13:37 <fungot> Taneb: ok. do you use guile, it's built-in) or openssl's fnord' library) has a rather vertical fnord graph.
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16:07:56 <fizzie> Spoilers: it's the latter.
16:08:35 <fizzie> The reason being, the file format makes it harder to translate from text to tokens than the other way around.
16:08:55 <fizzie> I have a Perl script I can use to generate fungot sentences with a fixed initial context.
16:08:55 <fungot> fizzie: that's more like it))) where bar is a non-tail call?
16:11:00 <fizzie> http://ix.io/27yb -- no idea which style that's from, just used whatever leftover was there.
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17:33:05 <HackEso> modes? No such file or directory
17:33:38 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
17:34:30 <fungot> kritixilithos: but append!ing to ()
17:41:58 <fizzie> The reason why the 'irc' style has stuff like this is because logs from #scheme were part of the training set.
17:42:09 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
17:54:31 <kritixilithos> how are words tokenised? are the parens a part of the word or does fungot add them separately?
17:54:31 <fungot> kritixilithos: i'm writing gambit 5. helsinki/ espoo border, otaniemi. wonder if it's for scheme code did i really just guess from context
18:11:56 <fizzie> Punctuation are separate tokens, and there's a bug (or rather, a missing feature) that even punctuations that shouldn't have a following space (open parenthesis, slash, open quote) add it.
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18:42:32 <b_jonas> oh, phpbb has a link to show the print view of a page in a thread. that's what I should use next time when I mass download.
18:42:51 <b_jonas> it still uses the same pagination, I think it only differs in the headers and footers
18:45:36 <b_jonas> though it doesn't link the usernames of posters to the user, that's a slight drawback
18:46:10 <b_jonas> meh, I'll figure it out the next time I want to download a forum
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19:08:28 <kmc> good old phpbb
19:08:55 <b_jonas> kmc: it's quite popular and actively developped
19:09:10 <b_jonas> it's like everywhere, you just don't always recognize it because there are so many plugins customizing it
19:09:15 <kmc> yeah I know
19:09:17 <b_jonas> and every version gives different html
19:09:29 <kmc> I'm on at least one popular site that is veny much an old school forum
19:09:29 <b_jonas> so you can't even recognize it if you look inside the html like the classes and ids
19:09:33 <kmc> not sure if it's phpbb, but quite likely
19:09:37 <b_jonas> you need different scripts for every different vesrions
19:09:47 <kmc> I prefer old school forums to "social media" in many ways
19:10:05 <kmc> although I like reddit even more
19:10:26 <esowiki> [[A-DU]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68892&oldid=58436 * Salpynx * (+50) Categories, because at the time both adding a Language cat and adding it to the languages page seemed redundant (re. WHY?)
19:10:33 <kmc> reddit is often lumped in with social media but it's really closer to an old school forum
19:11:12 <kmc> the interface is cleaner than most phpbb sites i've used
19:13:54 <arseniiv> reddit certainly has some thought put into it
19:14:22 <arseniiv> though I often complain about 1-year topic lockout period
19:15:27 <arseniiv> one complain I have about several old-school forums I visited or visit is that they dry out and toxify in some sense
19:19:04 <arseniiv> like there is a whole level of positive feedback loops going on: people visiting habitually may want more activity so they write posts that are often far from constructive, and lack of feedback that these posts are bad fixes the habit of posting these unnecessary things
19:19:22 <arseniiv> and that’s just one of many sides of the story
19:19:23 <b_jonas> kmc: sorry, I don't buy it. normal forums show all threads, and show all posts in a thread that anyone ever posted, in chronological order, except those that moderators have deleted, those are gone. facebook and twitter and reddit choose popular posts that they think you'll like, they're selective.
19:21:28 <zzo38> I think NNTP is better.
19:22:19 <kmc> b_jonas: you can choose the sort on reddit
19:22:29 <kmc> if you go to a specific reddit, I mean
19:22:35 <kmc> which would be equivalent of choosing a forum site
19:22:44 <kmc> the options are hot / new / top / rising
19:22:52 <kmc> you can also choose the sort on comments
19:22:55 <kmc> (usually?)
19:23:24 <b_jonas> kmc: ok, I believe you, I don't use reddit so I'm not familiar with how all this stuff works
19:23:52 <kmc> you can also do "top of today" vs "top of this year" vs "top of all time"
19:23:54 <kmc> https://www.reddit.com/r/ambien/top/?t=all
19:24:57 <kmc> i like reddit. sure, a lot of reddits (especially popular or default-view ones) are shit, but there are a lot of good ones too
19:25:06 <kmc> most of my interests have at least one good reddit associated
19:26:47 <zzo38> I think that the topics should never be locked out
19:27:35 <kmc> yeah it is a bit annoying
19:27:51 <kmc> when i come across a 4 year old thread and want to say something clever
19:27:53 <zzo38> Although I do not use Reddit myself, I do sometimes read stuff on there when linked from somewhere, and I have a redirect set up in my browser so that it redirects to the "old.reddit.com" domain name
19:28:01 <kmc> and i miss out on the opportunity to show off my cleverness
19:31:34 <myname> reddit is an awesome place
19:31:41 <zzo38> Perhaps, you should use NNTP is better.
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19:32:48 <zzo38> There is some program uses web forum and also is available as mailing list and NNTP, such as "DFeed", so it is possible to have all of them
19:33:05 <zzo38> (And it is compatible with IRC, too.)
19:34:19 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, there's also Google groups which gives a web interface to some newsgroups
19:34:28 <b_jonas> or it used to, I'm not sure if it does still
19:35:04 <b_jonas> at https://groups.google.com/
19:35:11 <b_jonas> it handles mailing lists too
19:35:28 <b_jonas> and there are newsgroups mirrored with a mailing list, possibly without a web interface
19:35:36 <b_jonas> there's all sorts of bridges
19:37:15 <zzo38> Yes, although what is problem I think is that many mailing lists and web forums don't have a NNTP.
19:37:42 <zzo38> (There is also the problem of namespace collision, which Unusenet solves.)
19:43:04 <b_jonas> namespace collision between what?
19:44:19 <zzo38> Potential collision between non-Usenet newsgroups in different servers.
19:45:06 <zzo38> (If it is the same one that is echoed on a different server then the same name should be used, but otherwise it probably shouldn't be the same name.)
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20:33:36 <Taneb> Hell, Phantom_Hoover
21:01:26 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68893&oldid=42675 * IFcoltransG * (-6) /* I/O */ Fix grammar
21:10:19 <fizzie> `` wn hap -over | grep '^1' | head -1
21:10:21 <HackEso> 1. hap -- (an accidental happening; "he recorded all the little haps and mishaps of his life")
21:25:21 <arseniiv> I still happen to stumble upon songs from 90s-00s that I heard that time, didn’t know their titles (for older ones, almost for all of them) and then forgot. Still! Though that requires filtering tons of tracks from various radiostreams. It’s very helpful that there’s soft for slicing them for me and ignoring those listened to already
21:26:36 <arseniiv> and the community to maintain a list of streams with their genres and such
21:27:44 <arseniiv> shouldn’t I pet my nostalgia not
21:28:11 <zzo38> I think that they said that Level 4 PostScript will not be made, although I think that there are some things that should be, such as alpha transparency, image device (like Ghostscript has), cvop (to convert procedures into operators), nonenumerable dictionaries, printobject without a tag to send an array directly, and a few others.
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22:38:11 <arseniiv> someone read Unsong? (but please no spoilers)
22:38:49 <fizzie> Sure. It was interesting.
22:39:40 <zzo38> I think PDF is terrible, and that maybe PCL is better, and DVI is also better (for different uses from PCL).
22:39:47 <Phantom_Hoover> i read the first few chapters and didn't like how it was going
22:40:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, well i recently had to have my insides rearranged but other than that good
22:40:39 <Phantom_Hoover> i somehow stumbled into a job doing tarted-up k for a bank so it turns out esolangs really can get you a job
22:42:13 <fizzie> I talked about Befunge in a job (well, summer internship) interview once, but I'm not sure that contributed.
22:42:16 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: nice. apparently multiple esolangers work in finance, in places where they use either Dyalog APL or K for code, except for mroman who uses burlesque
22:43:10 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: in what way? Dyalog APL and K are both APL-likes, and people use both with some database interface or something in finance
22:43:13 <b_jonas> or isn't that how it works?
22:43:22 <b_jonas> I don't know, I don't want to work in finance
22:43:54 <Phantom_Hoover> K is... still used in some places i'm sure. in a lot of them it's migrated to Q which is K with keywork aliases for the operators and a general pythony feel of everything being a dictionary
22:48:32 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: does finance mean that everything you work with is confidential, you can only test your code on phony generated data and will never know why it fails on real data, and you have to leave your brain locked in the office when you leave and bleach it when you're fired?
22:50:15 <b_jonas> what, how? isn't hedge funds like investments where any information you learn will be useless a minute later anyway, and the programs you write have to react within milliseconds?
22:50:36 <b_jonas> like biology research but faster
22:51:01 <Phantom_Hoover> hedge funds in general are just, like, smaller and less tightly regulated investment outfits than the big banks
22:51:55 <b_jonas> yeah. and they're less tightly regulated because they get access to less confidential data about clients, or so I assume
22:52:34 <Phantom_Hoover> they don't sell their financial services on the open market in the same way the investment banks do i think
22:57:19 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: so what is the work like? can you read the K code that others wrote? or is it all write-only code?
23:02:15 <Phantom_Hoover> nah as i alluded to above i feel it mostly just reads like python
23:02:30 <Phantom_Hoover> like, very weird python, but most of it is twiddling dicts
23:06:13 <Phantom_Hoover> the most k parts of it are the advanced iteration stuff
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23:14:41 <esowiki> [[Embedded HQ9+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68894&oldid=58087 * IFcoltransG * (+43) +Categories
23:20:44 <esowiki> [[Rotary Quine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68895&oldid=68743 * IFcoltransG * (+27) Category
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23:56:11 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG/HQ9+ derivatives]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68896 * IFcoltransG * (+781) Created a list of HQ9+ derivatives
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00:09:41 * pikhq knows a former #esoteric-er did get a job in finance, cause K
00:09:57 <pikhq> I certainly couldn't do it, because... Well, naw
00:21:01 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68897&oldid=64680 * IFcoltransG * (+308) /* HQ9+ Derivatives */ new section
00:26:50 <esowiki> [[Blyat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68898&oldid=66506 * IFcoltransG * (-59) Shuffled some formatting and categories
00:27:43 <esowiki> [[4-list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68899&oldid=65113 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Fixed categories
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00:29:20 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68900&oldid=68877 * IFcoltransG * (+13) /* Non-alphabetic */ Author forgot to add 4-list
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00:36:44 <HackEso> ‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
00:46:44 <esowiki> [[Talk:Point operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68901&oldid=60735 * IFcoltransG * (+753) /* Leading zeroes */ new section
01:12:45 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68902&oldid=67488 * IFcoltransG * (+169) Mentioned work on Bubbles
01:13:38 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68903&oldid=68902 * IFcoltransG * (+4) Tidy phrasing
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01:26:52 <esowiki> [[Your]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68904&oldid=68508 * IFcoltransG * (+99) Categories
01:27:07 <esowiki> [[A very long language name that is very weird and yeah, this is your but its this]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68905&oldid=68390 * IFcoltransG * (+105) Categories
01:29:57 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68906&oldid=68857 * JonoCode9374 * (-3594)
01:30:25 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68907&oldid=68906 * JonoCode9374 * (+74)
01:30:44 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68908&oldid=68751 * IFcoltransG * (+57) /* General languages */ Added the misplaced Your
01:32:05 <esowiki> [[Your]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68909&oldid=68904 * IFcoltransG * (+100) Added see also
01:34:11 <esowiki> [[Ases]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68910&oldid=68573 * IFcoltransG * (-15) Fixed categories
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01:42:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:KEMURI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68911 * IFcoltransG * (+268) /* Year */ new section
01:43:39 <esowiki> [[KEMURI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68912&oldid=36499 * IFcoltransG * (+78) Dead link, tentative year category, other cats
01:45:39 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG/HQ9+ derivatives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68913&oldid=68896 * IFcoltransG * (+12) Added KEMURI after looking at Japanese wikipedia page
01:46:24 <int-e> fungot: What are the winning conditions for Coway's Game of Life?
01:46:25 <fungot> int-e: so of course there is a gambit binary available for 10.3? wait you were on holiday??? are you studying? ( this is also called define, so i grepped for ize, but " it just works
01:47:45 <esowiki> [[International Esolang Design Competition]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68914&oldid=59456 * IFcoltransG * (+38) Added nonexistent category to match CALESYTA
01:52:44 <esowiki> [[D'ni]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68915&oldid=57399 * IFcoltransG * (+51) Categories fixed
02:03:24 <fizzie> fungot: Are there any good Conway's Game of Life romhacks?
02:03:25 <fungot> fizzie: i commented the line that said " welcome to good burger, home of chez scheme, if a little hard to state simply to someone who can draw fnord ( and)?
02:03:48 <kmc> Cowsay's Game of Life?
02:04:16 <HackEso> \ WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts. \ \ (__) \ (oo) \ /------\/ \ / | || \ * /\---/\ \ ~~ ~~ \ ..."Have you mooed today?"... \ W: Unable to read /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ - DirectoryExists (2: No such file or directory)
02:04:21 <fizzie> Not so great without newlines.
02:04:34 <esowiki> [[Frums]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68916&oldid=68177 * IFcoltransG * (+18) Fixed categories
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02:15:40 <zzo38> Is there a stable way to check the version of apt though?
02:17:52 <esowiki> [[Template talk:Disambig]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68917 * IFcoltransG * (+492) Created page with "I'm going to remove the references to nonexistent categories from this template, namely Category:Templates and Category:Disambiguation pages. You can see disambiguation pages..."
02:18:31 <esowiki> [[Template:Disambig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68918&oldid=66253 * IFcoltransG * (-159) Removed nonexistent categories (see talk for rationale)
02:20:20 <esowiki> [[Template talk:Disambig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68919&oldid=68917 * IFcoltransG * (-5) Fixed my link
02:24:47 <esowiki> [[2006 Esolang Contest]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68920&oldid=65109 * IFcoltransG * (+19) '2006' is a category for languages, not events. In absence of cat for events, using nonexistent "Competitions and Events" for consistency
02:25:55 <esowiki> [[Esoteric Awards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68921&oldid=13664 * IFcoltransG * (+37) Added link to nonexistent Competitions and Events category for consistency with other competitions
02:31:51 <esowiki> [[Entish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68922&oldid=61053 * IFcoltransG * (-29) Fixed formatting and removed deterministic category
02:32:47 <esowiki> [[Entish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68923&oldid=68922 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Made link look a bit nicer using bullet point
02:33:38 <esowiki> [[KeyVM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68924&oldid=67830 * IFcoltransG * (-32) Link formatting and removed deterministic category
02:35:09 <esowiki> [[KeyVM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68925&oldid=68924 * IFcoltransG * (-10) More link formatting
02:35:59 <esowiki> [[Entish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68926&oldid=68923 * IFcoltransG * (-8) Formatted links in infobox
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02:36:47 <esowiki> [[KeyVM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68927&oldid=68925 * IFcoltransG * (-12) Infobox link formatting
02:40:38 <esowiki> [[RarVM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68928&oldid=67384 * IFcoltransG * (-97) Removed Deterministic category, hopefully stamped out all improperly formatted links
02:41:38 <esowiki> [[WordLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68929&oldid=68462 * IFcoltransG * (-27) Removed Deterministic category
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03:12:23 <esowiki> [[User:YamTokTpaFa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68930&oldid=68565 * IFcoltransG * (+1) I fixed your maths code to get rid of the weird nonexistent category error messages at the bottom of the page
03:14:52 <esowiki> [[Backhand]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68931&oldid=68697 * IFcoltransG * (-29) Removed One-dimensional category
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03:33:45 <esowiki> [[Talk:Absurd Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68932 * IFcoltransG * (+1131) /* Reverse of brainfuck */ new section
03:44:29 <esowiki> [[Absurd Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68933&oldid=46424 * IFcoltransG * (+585) Talked about computational class + formatting
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03:54:57 <esowiki> [[Higgledy Piggledy Processor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68934&oldid=66187 * IFcoltransG * (-2) Category changed from Processor to Concepts
03:59:42 <esowiki> [[EGSHEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68935&oldid=68613 * IFcoltransG * (+93) dead link note + categories
04:00:40 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68936&oldid=68900 * IFcoltransG * (+13) /* E */ EGSHEL was lost
04:02:29 <esowiki> [[Absurd Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68937&oldid=68933 * IFcoltransG * (+41) Extra categories
04:03:26 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68938&oldid=68936 * IFcoltransG * (+23) /* A */ Brought Absurd Brainfuck in from the cold
04:08:56 <esowiki> [[Baba is program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68939&oldid=67811 * IFcoltransG * (+47) Categories
04:12:39 <esowiki> [[Higgledy Piggledy Processor]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68940&oldid=68934 * IFcoltransG * (+9) Oh oops, I {{stub}}bed my toe!
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06:47:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Pyelias * New user account
06:48:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68941&oldid=68791 * Pyelias * (+112) /* Introductions */
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07:47:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:MUMON]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68942 * IFcoltransG * (+679) Created page with "I doubt MUMON is the multi-monads in F* over at [https://www.fstar-lang.org/papers/mumon https://www.fstar-lang.org/papers/mumon]. All I could dredge was this bibliography [ht..."
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09:06:59 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68943&oldid=68862 * JonoCode9374 * (+251)
09:07:12 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68944&oldid=68943 * JonoCode9374 * (+1)
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09:46:51 <kspalaiologos> @tell b_jonas I didn't really think too much on these problems, but I'll tackle them eventually
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09:55:30 <Taneb> kspalaiologos: you skipped "HELlo" :(
09:55:51 <myname> not neccessarily, maybe he's doing powers of 2
09:57:45 <Taneb> myname: we started with 0 which is not a power of two!
09:58:47 <myname> well, at leas it's not the -1st (or th?) power
10:07:13 <lambdabot> https://oeis.org/A056654 Numbers n such that 10*R_n + 3 is prime, where R_n ...
10:07:13 <lambdabot> [0,1,2,4,8,10,23,83,220,1313,2951,20015,51053,0,0,1,2,4,6,9,12,16,20,25,30,3...
10:08:18 <oerjan> int-e: i think that also has that bug of adding another numer list at the end...
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11:16:00 <kritixilithos> does one go looking for a k job or does it find you
11:18:47 <esowiki> [[Keta]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68945&oldid=68944 * IFcoltransG * (+180) Added categories (:Turing complete not proven, :Unimplemented because interpreter looks to be incomplete) Have a nice day everyone!
11:41:11 <esowiki> [[User talk:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68946&oldid=68789 * Oklomsy * (+76)
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12:15:25 <rain1> what's new in esolangs
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12:45:28 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * InCrIpTiOn * New user account
12:52:09 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68947&oldid=68941 * InCrIpTiOn * (+178)
12:54:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68948&oldid=68947 * InCrIpTiOn * (-57)
12:55:13 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68949&oldid=68948 * InCrIpTiOn * (-1)
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13:10:19 <arseniiv> int-e: at least they used befunge?
13:10:56 <arseniiv> (or another fungoid, I didn’t check carefully)
13:13:56 <fizzie> I used to have a three-line Befunge-based email/usenet sig, which in retrospect was pretty silly, but, you know.
13:22:08 <int-e> arseniiv: wrong context, but I guess that's my fault (see oerjan's message) :)
13:23:02 <arseniiv> int-e: ah, I had a feeling maybe that “meh” is for something further upstream
13:24:06 <arseniiv> ah, that oeis bug b_jonas mentioned too
13:25:57 <int-e> (cf. https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Anoia )
13:32:33 <wib_jonas> darn it, this stupid webpage won't give errors for an invalid url, neither in the status code, nor some nice error message in the content, it just returns an index page
13:33:15 <wib_jonas> I'm doing a mass download of 25000 pages, and so want to find errors before I download the index 10000 times
13:34:22 <int-e> Oh well, at least the bug is an upstream bug, not "mine".
13:35:06 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1126407/
13:35:36 <int-e> And it's also fairly obvious what is happening.
13:37:46 <arseniiv> first I thought you say Anoia causes that
13:38:01 <int-e> arseniiv: that is what I meant
13:38:26 <int-e> Anoia is also the goddess of silly bugs, to my mind.
13:38:39 <wib_jonas> int-e: it might be because the oeis site has changed a few times in the last decade. perlbot's oeis plugin is also bitrotten now.
13:38:57 <int-e> addElement (t, x) c | t `elem` "STU" = c { sequenceData = nums ++ sequenceData c }
13:40:18 <arseniiv> if it’s that then she may be very pleased when I write code from scratch, as I make many silly bugs before the code starts working as intented and can be gradually added to
13:40:52 <arseniiv> many of them just unattended typos
13:41:15 <arseniiv> or because of copy-pasting pieces and forgetting to rename something
13:41:49 <arseniiv> and that’s even despite I know not to copy-paste much
13:43:22 <int-e> wib_jonas: I imagine it's possible that OEIS never used to return more than one result in its text interface
13:43:50 <int-e> http://oeis.org/search?fmt=text&q=0,1,2,4
13:46:06 <int-e> So what the oeis package is doing is taking that text, and add all %S, %T and %U lines to the sequence. And it's clear that it doesn't expect more than one entry: addElement ('I', x) c = c { catalogNums = words x }
13:46:21 <int-e> (that's the sequence id(s))
13:47:57 <wib_jonas> that sounds like it's possible to fix
13:50:10 <wib_jonas> ok, I started the download. it will try to download all 25252 pages, and *hopefully* detect if a page is not found.
13:50:35 <wib_jonas> but since the webpage doesn't give proper error messages for a wrong url, the error might slip through undetected.
13:55:49 <esowiki> [[User:InCrIpTiOn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68950 * InCrIpTiOn * (+181) Me!
14:08:32 <esowiki> [[Unrandom]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68951 * InCrIpTiOn * (+1360) Created page with "'''Unrandom''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:InCrIpTiOn]] that uses an integer to randomly generate [[BrainFuck]] code. A list of accepted arrows can be fo..."
14:08:52 <esowiki> [[Unrandom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68952&oldid=68951 * InCrIpTiOn * (-98)
14:09:31 <esowiki> [[Unrandom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68953&oldid=68952 * InCrIpTiOn * (-1) fixed link for category
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14:36:21 <int-e> wib_jonas: you tend to know such things: how does one convert °C into °F in the `units` program? I thought it was degF and degC, but those are the proportional units (1.8 degF = 1 degC)
14:37:09 <wib_jonas> int-e: I don't know, I don't use the units program
14:37:16 <wib_jonas> I have a custom ftoc and ctof program here
14:38:09 <int-e> Ah. There are tempF/tempC linear functions/notation.
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14:39:04 <int-e> `` units "tempF(100)" tempC
14:41:15 <int-e> (Basically, tempC(x) = x + 273.15K, and degC = K, and I forgot what the absolute zero based counterpart for Fahrenheit is.)
14:43:58 <int-e> Is it Racine? *duckduckgos*
14:44:43 <int-e> Rankine. Kind of not close.
14:51:19 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_gravity has a surprising amount of content.
14:57:15 <HackEso> This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. Nobody likes this.
14:57:58 <wib_jonas> I'll use type-safety to find errors
14:58:27 <wib_jonas> as in, I'll change the type of this object, so that I can find all other parts of the code that depend on the current content of the object
14:58:59 <wib_jonas> custom types are so useful, good thing most programming languages offer them now
14:59:02 <int-e> Oh yes, type-driven development.
14:59:11 <wib_jonas> most non-eso programming languages
14:59:29 <int-e> (Often useful in refactoring code.)
14:59:48 <wib_jonas> normally I do name-driven stuff, where, when I change the interface of a function or variable, I change its name so that anyone referring to it under the old name gives an error
15:00:09 <wib_jonas> but this time that won't work, because much of the code uses these objects as just comparable and hashable abstract objects
15:00:22 <wib_jonas> and only modify the parts of the code that destructure this object
15:02:03 <wib_jonas> I just have a naming problem, I don't know what to name one of the fields
15:02:35 <int-e> hmm, "foldl' f x . reverse" looks a bit pointless
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15:36:08 <arseniiv> ^ ^ ^ °C, °F and K and all the more historic temperature units are one of genuine examples of affinely related units in practice
15:36:32 <arseniiv> also unrelatedly I’d like to find a mathematical sense in logarithmic units
15:38:04 <arseniiv> <wib_jonas> most non-eso programming languages => yeah I’d like to contrive a typed esolang but that’s a hard task (i) to not make anything too useful and (ii) to not make anything too hard to implement even an unoptimized reference impl
15:38:39 <arseniiv> something with typeclasses if I wrap my head around that algorithm W and its variations
15:39:18 <arseniiv> <wib_jonas> I just have a naming problem, I don't know what to name one of the fields => how was that random words HackEso command named?
15:39:53 <HackEso> confubtill mautionauer themia dauo mcgling
15:39:54 <HackEso> fya sack lapprock alcork gamy timenth muloppofcstati jah peramargen wigg
15:40:32 <arseniiv> <wib_jonas> random bits? => no, in the context of decibels and others
15:41:29 <arseniiv> yes I definitely should make an esolang with keywords from a conlang, like Lojban’s grammar description uses Lojban words
15:44:11 <arseniiv> medɛia ⟦ sotk°e imar ~ mŭ • sotk°e jɛ ~ mŭ ⟧ • ɛert°iä <imar ⅋ jɛ>
15:44:54 <wib_jonas> arseniiv: I think there are a few using klingon keywords
15:45:58 <arseniiv> wib_jonas: that’s only good for those who know it, and I don’t
15:47:03 <wib_jonas> see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Var%27aq
15:47:17 <arseniiv> (if someone would be interested to read that thing aloud, t° and k° are maybe labialized t and k, though I have no idea why here are both ɛ and ä)
15:54:08 <wib_jonas> arseniiv: is Excel an esolang? LibreOffice Calc as esperanto UI, in which case the builtin functions in excel formulas have names in esperanto. in particular, https://help.libreoffice.org/6.3/eo/text/scalc/01/04060109.html says that the VLOOKUP function is localized as VSERĈO.
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15:55:09 <wib_jonas> arseniiv: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages
16:00:47 <esowiki> [[Perligata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68954&oldid=53828 * B jonas * (+45)
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16:05:03 <int-e> wib_jonas: https://github.com/bsl/oeis/pull/14 :-/
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16:10:13 <fizzie> Heh, Flickr responses have one of those "hiring ads in HTTP headers" things.
16:10:35 <fizzie> There's also an X-Men quote in a "quote" header.
16:11:02 <fizzie> (Trying to figure out why the "figure out the color of anything via flickr image search" thing has stopped working.)
16:12:21 <int-e> duckduckgo is so terrible :/
16:14:20 <fizzie> This error message from urllib2 is pretty terrible. It just says "HTTPError()".
16:14:48 <int-e> Better than ed's "?".
16:15:02 <Taneb> int-e: by what metric in particular is duckduckgo terrible?
16:15:16 <int-e> Taneb: relevance of search results.
16:15:29 <Taneb> That sounds like an important metric for a search engine
16:15:40 <int-e> Taneb: I mean I have a pretty good idea why that is the case.
16:15:48 <int-e> Taneb: But it's still annoying :)
16:16:26 <int-e> (Why: duckduckgo does not track which links people actually click. And I suspect that this is a very effective relevance metric.)
16:16:53 <int-e> At least when it comes to determining the order of the top 10 results.
16:19:33 <int-e> Taneb: FWIW my current attempt was 'ghc 8.8.2' (which found a commit on gitlab) and 'ghc 8.8.2 download' (which found the download page for ghc 8.2.2...)
16:28:13 <Taneb> That is close to what you want but yet decidedly unhelpful
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17:16:13 <lambdabot> https://oeis.org/A061574 Simple quadratic fields (i.e., with a unique prime ...
17:16:13 <lambdabot> [-163,-67,-43,-19,-11,-7,-3,-2,-1,1,2,3,5,6,7,11,13,14,17,19,21,22,23,29,31,...
17:16:38 <lambdabot> https://oeis.org/A003173 Heegner numbers: imaginary quadratic fields with un...
17:16:38 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,7,11,19,43,67,163,1,1,2,3,4,5,7,9,11,14,17,21,25,30,36,42,49,57,66,76...
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19:53:45 <esowiki> [[Perligata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68955&oldid=68954 * IFcoltransG * (+68) Shuffled some links and added ones to See Also Latinic languages
19:56:48 <esowiki> [[Perl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68956&oldid=67548 * IFcoltransG * (+4) Perligata has a page now, made the mention a link
20:04:25 <esowiki> [[International Esolang Design Competition]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68957&oldid=68914 * IFcoltransG * (+9) Added stub template (page mentions it's a WIP already)
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21:12:19 <esowiki> [[Lisp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68958 * IFcoltransG * (+4749) Created page with "{{serious}} '''Lisp''' is a language (but not an esoteric language, just a regular language (or more accurately family of languages (but particularly one single language call..."
21:29:39 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_Fitting ... hmm, don't see any connection to Lisp.
21:31:59 <esowiki> [[Consequential]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68959&oldid=55569 * IFcoltransG * (+149) Added categories
21:32:47 <zzo38> I read in a book that webs are colourful to insects that can see ultraviolet.
21:36:32 <esowiki> [[LISP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68960 * IFcoltransG * (+18) I'm creating this redirect again (and apologise if it should still be deleted) because Lisp now has a page on the wiki (with {{serious}} template)
21:42:43 <esowiki> [[Lisp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68961&oldid=68958 * IFcoltransG * (+32) Fixed link to wikipedia
21:47:41 <esowiki> [[Talk:Cixl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68962 * IFcoltransG * (+301) /* Year */ new section
21:48:49 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68963&oldid=54309 * IFcoltransG * (+119) Fixed link, added categories
21:54:30 <esowiki> [[Talk:Cixl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68964&oldid=68962 * IFcoltransG * (+268) /* Year */
21:55:05 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68965&oldid=68963 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Changed year to better fit research on publish date. Still unsure.
21:58:49 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68966&oldid=68965 * IFcoltransG * (+91) Added stub template and a link to language based on Cixl
21:59:07 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68967&oldid=68966 * IFcoltransG * (-2) Bettered link formatting
21:59:51 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68968&oldid=68967 * IFcoltransG * (-2) With link formatting, "perfect" is a direction, not a destination. i.e. I made it a bit better
22:06:37 <esowiki> [[CASISP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68969&oldid=42635 * IFcoltransG * (+171) Added categories, and changed sentence flow and capitalisation
22:33:44 <esowiki> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68970&oldid=65495 * IFcoltransG * (+12) Link fixed and concepts category
22:43:13 <esowiki> [[Python]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68971 * IFcoltransG * (+1227) Created, and this time it isn't spam
22:46:09 <esowiki> [[Unrandom]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68972&oldid=68953 * IFcoltransG * (+36) Categories
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23:54:07 <esowiki> [[Unpseudorandom]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68973 * IFcoltransG * (+2824) Created page with "'''Unpseudorandom''' is a language based on [[Unrandom]], which provides a seed for generating [[brainfuck]] code randomly. However, in Unpseudorandom, the randomness is const..."
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23:56:24 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68974&oldid=68908 * IFcoltransG * (+59) /* Brainfuck derivatives */ Unrandom wasn't on either list. Now it is.
23:57:11 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68975&oldid=68938 * IFcoltransG * (+21) /* U */ Added Unpseudorandom
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23:59:25 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68976&oldid=68903 * IFcoltransG * (+154) Added Unpseudorandom
23:59:46 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68977&oldid=68976 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Formatting
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00:15:25 <zzo38> I found that the SQLite page cache requires that the size of the extra data must be at least the size of a pointer, otherwise it will result in invalid write error. This does not seem to be documented in the SQLite documentation.
00:24:13 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68978&oldid=68610 * IFcoltransG * (+343) Misc formatting, categories, and clarifications
00:25:04 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68979&oldid=68978 * IFcoltransG * (+18) Oops, forgot to add year
00:26:51 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68980&oldid=68979 * IFcoltransG * (+3) Missed out a "to"
00:28:02 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68981&oldid=54830 * IFcoltransG * (+275) Categories and formatting, plus grammar
00:30:22 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68982&oldid=54831 * IFcoltransG * (+196) Categories
00:34:39 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68983&oldid=68980 * IFcoltransG * (+44) See also other AmBored variants
00:34:44 <esowiki> [[AmBored++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68984&oldid=68981 * IFcoltransG * (+43) See also other AmBored variants
00:34:47 <esowiki> [[AmBored--]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68985&oldid=68982 * IFcoltransG * (+43) See also other AmBored variants
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01:09:02 <esowiki> [[KittyKittyMewMew]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68986&oldid=41401 * JonoCode9374 * (+176) /* Interpreters for KittyKittyMewMew */
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03:46:55 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68987&oldid=68907 * JonoCode9374 * (+92)
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03:49:01 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68988&oldid=68987 * JonoCode9374 * (+16) /* Languages I'm working on */
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05:16:12 <zzo38> I have a different problem with DuckDuckGo, which is that the pagination doesn't seems to work properly.
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07:25:07 <zzo38> A bug I found in Ghostscript before, I looked at the source codes and it says that the reason for that bug is it is an emulation of the same bug in Adobe's implementation. See the file called ibnum.h for the explanation. Now you can know this in case you have found the same bug and don't know what it is.
07:30:23 <zzo38> "There is a bug in all Adobe interpreters that causes them to byte-swap native reals in binary object sequences iff the native real format is IEEE. We emulate this bug (it will be added to the PLRM errata at some point), but under a conditional so that it is clear where this is being done."
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11:10:11 <kspalaiologos> ``` perl -we 'print unpack "x*(a*\@0X)*(a*@)*", "example\n";'
11:10:15 <HackEso> \ e \ le \ ple \ mple \ ample \ xample \ example \ xample \ ample \ mple \ ple \ le \ e
11:12:35 <kspalaiologos> ``` perl -we 'print unpack "(aXa)*", "example\n";'
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13:32:02 <esowiki> [[Aeolbonn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68989&oldid=60570 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) Missing an 'r'
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15:07:51 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68990&oldid=68643 * OsmineYT * (+100)
15:24:57 <esowiki> [[User:RealUndefined]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68991&oldid=58037 * RealUndefined * (+77)
15:29:46 <esowiki> [[Baba Is You]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68992&oldid=67808 * RealUndefined * (+159)
15:30:41 <esowiki> [[Baba Is You]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68993&oldid=68992 * RealUndefined * (+29) ye
15:31:55 <esowiki> [[Baba Is You]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68994&oldid=68993 * RealUndefined * (+0) removed that hyphen
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18:24:19 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68995&oldid=68679 * Lebster * (+74) added self-depreciation of implementation
18:33:47 <imode> we have languages with typical message passing features (erlang, etc.) but none with generative communication features.
18:36:15 <imode> I wonder why that is.
18:52:44 <int-e> I wonder what that is.
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18:56:26 <imode> decoupling sender from receiver. your units of code communicate via a shared associative memory and pattern matching
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21:24:09 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68996 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+3620) Created page with "'''XENBLN''' is a code-golfing language created by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Etymology== The name "XENBLN" is the capitalized Latin-alphabet lookalikes (kind of) of..."
21:24:56 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68997&oldid=67537 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+94)
21:26:28 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68998&oldid=68996 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18)
21:27:13 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68999&oldid=68998 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+3)
21:31:46 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Timleg002 * New user account
21:33:24 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69000&oldid=68949 * Timleg002 * (+121)
21:33:59 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69001&oldid=68999 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+72)
21:34:50 <esowiki> [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69002&oldid=59995 * Timleg002 * (+107) addded an interpreter
21:35:23 <esowiki> [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69003&oldid=69002 * Timleg002 * (+17)
21:35:56 <esowiki> [[User:Timleg002]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69004 * Timleg002 * (+33) yes
21:39:03 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69005&oldid=68995 * Lebster * (+0) /* How to use */
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21:41:32 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69006&oldid=69005 * Lebster * (-736)
21:45:57 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69007&oldid=69001 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+26)
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01:00:13 <esowiki> [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69008&oldid=68945 * JonoCode9374 * (+30) /* Very WIP Reference List */
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01:47:43 <esowiki> [[$ $]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69009&oldid=59924 * Lebster * (-36) fixed formatting
02:07:47 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69010 * Lebster * (+316) Created page with "'''Rogex''' (or RGX) is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Lebster|Lebster]]. In rogex, there is a 256 cell long memory, with hexadecimal addresses (eg ff..."
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05:56:08 <zzo38> I think that a "special" operator should be added in PostScript, which is used for non-graphical properties of the page or document, such as hyperlinks, table of contents, background/foreground distinction of DjVu, etc. Any PostScript object that can be represented as a binary object format can be used. If the driver doesn't recognize the command, then it is an error (which may be deferred depending on circumstances).
06:02:08 <zzo38> (When the null device is selected, all specials are allowed and have no effect.)
06:08:00 <zzo38> I found the document how the pack/unpack commands working in Perl, to learn about what kspalaiologos wrote above
06:15:38 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69011&oldid=68135 * Quadril-Is * (+171)
06:15:54 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69012&oldid=69011 * Quadril-Is * (+0)
06:18:34 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69013&oldid=69012 * Quadril-Is * (+49)
06:39:14 <zzo38> I do not understand it so well, especially the first one I don't understand so well.
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08:54:53 <esowiki> [[Turing Machine But Way Worse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69014&oldid=67304 * RealUndefined * (+13) /* Tutorial */
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09:46:26 <zzo38> TeXnicard assumes that int and float are both 32-bits long, and on non-IEEE computers, furthermore requires that they are big-endian (on computers that use IEEE, the endianness doesn't matter). Probably, this should be corrected, although it works for now. (The only place where this matters is the definition of the obj_ufloat macro; the rest of the program doesn't care. This makes it easy to fix if needed.)
09:54:03 <esowiki> [[Turing Machine But Way Worse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69015&oldid=69014 * Int-e * (-714) /* Programs */ golfing Hello, world!
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09:58:24 <int-e> . o O ( Isn't it funny how the interpreter doesn't treat states as characters... )
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10:07:19 <zzo38> I found a mention of __STDC_IEC_559__, but it seems not all C compilers implement it; apparently clang doesn't, GCC does even though the documentation says it doesn't.
10:11:42 <b_jonas> zzo38: see my https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395 and links from there for more abuse of unpack in poerl
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10:17:17 <zzo38> b_jonas: Is there an explanation of its working, though? I read the document of pack/unpack, but still don't know all of its working, although I understand part of its working.
10:18:17 <b_jonas> zzo38: the code golf SE node that I link to gives some explanation
10:18:28 <b_jonas> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3434/shortest-game-of-life/112163#112163
10:19:43 <b_jonas> and that applies to the original game of life unpack too, and in fact it might be worth to read the code of the original first, because it allows arbitrary width and height of the field, so you can see how the parameters depend on the width explicitly
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10:21:02 <zzo38> Thank you for this explanation
10:21:18 <b_jonas> they differ in boundary counditions though:
10:21:40 <b_jonas> the original one puts zeroes all around the board
10:22:08 <b_jonas> the code golf SE one is toroidal because the golf challenge requires that
10:26:00 <b_jonas> for the first one in https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=908680 , which is what I gave to kspalaiologos, you have to know that by the docs, it would be possible to write infinite loops in unpack:
10:26:22 <b_jonas> `perl -eprint unpack"(a7X7)*","example" # by using a * after a parenthisized pattern that doesn't move the cursor
10:26:23 <HackEso> exampleexampleexampleexampleexampleexampleexample
10:26:50 <b_jonas> but in fact unpack is implemented to interpret * as the length of the input string in that case, to avoid such an infinite loop
10:27:16 <b_jonas> in fact the star is also interpreted as the length of the string in "X*" so that's valid only at the end of the string
10:33:24 <zzo38> O, so that is its working. OK
10:51:35 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: ((1!:1)3) reads a line from stdin
10:51:59 <b_jonas> or does it read the whole stdin? I don't remember
10:53:16 <b_jonas> it's an escape to all sorts of builtins that don't get a fancy name with a punctuation, but are named by a pair of numbers, major-minor style
10:53:52 <b_jonas> except that (11!:n) aren't builtins of the interpreter, but call a callback of the program into which you embed the interpreter
10:55:18 <kspalaiologos> also, is there something like a verb, but without arguments?
10:56:24 <b_jonas> it's like standard ML, verbs only know when to run their action and side effect when you pass them an argument, so you need to pass at least a dummy argument to them
10:59:55 <FireFly> do you mean (y,y)$((1!:1)3) ?
11:04:31 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: can we take this to #jsoftware ? ask there again
11:07:40 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69016&oldid=69013 * Quadril-Is * (-588)
11:29:04 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69017 * Quadril-Is * (+1237) Made the page
11:30:07 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69018&oldid=69017 * Quadril-Is * (+20) new lines suck
11:32:29 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69019&oldid=69018 * Quadril-Is * (+0) /* Backhand */ Reformatting
11:33:05 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69020&oldid=69016 * Quadril-Is * (+34)
11:34:33 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69021&oldid=69019 * Quadril-Is * (+34) a-gram
11:35:16 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69022&oldid=69021 * Quadril-Is * (+0) /* Backhand */ Actually the other format made more sense
11:38:15 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69023&oldid=69022 * Quadril-Is * (+15) /* Backhand */
11:39:41 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69024&oldid=69023 * Quadril-Is * (+12) /* Backhand */
11:42:56 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69025&oldid=69024 * Quadril-Is * (+16) /* Backhand */ oops forgot to update the "incomplete" part
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11:57:27 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69026&oldid=69025 * Quadril-Is * (-27) /* Backhand */ Backhand complete!
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12:03:58 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69027&oldid=69026 * Quadril-Is * (+45) Let me say, I forgot something.
12:07:55 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69028&oldid=69027 * Quadril-Is * (+34) Almost forgot another rule.
12:09:39 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69029&oldid=69028 * Quadril-Is * (+16) Just discovered another rule
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13:09:35 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69030&oldid=69007 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49)
13:13:10 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69031&oldid=69030 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) /* Datatypes */
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13:30:53 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69032&oldid=69029 * Lebster * (+15) changed date format to be easily understandable
13:53:04 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69033&oldid=69031 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+109) /* Examples */
14:03:34 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69034&oldid=69032 * Quadril-Is * (+459) /* The Esolangs */ Charcoal!
14:03:35 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69035&oldid=69033 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+443) /* Datatypes */
14:18:41 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69036&oldid=69034 * Quadril-Is * (+264) /* The Esolangs */
14:58:05 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69037&oldid=69010 * Lebster * (+1619)
15:07:37 <esowiki> [[!!Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69038&oldid=68560 * Lebster * (+374)
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16:18:34 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69039&oldid=69006 * Lebster * (+718) /* Examples */
16:19:03 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69040&oldid=69039 * Lebster * (+1) /* Print any string */
16:35:18 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69041&oldid=69037 * Lebster * (+57)
17:09:00 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ByRuss X * New user account
17:50:21 <b_jonas> ``` hg log -r 3342 -T "{desc}\n"
17:50:24 <HackEso> <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done
17:58:34 <b_jonas> I did much more silly things
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19:04:23 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69042&oldid=69040 * Lebster * (-2) /* Hello World */
19:13:06 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69043&oldid=69042 * Lebster * (+938)
19:26:55 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69044&oldid=69043 * Lebster * (+979) /* Interpreter */
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22:00:14 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69045&oldid=69035 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+161) ...
22:46:32 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69046&oldid=69041 * Lebster * (+332)
22:47:44 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69047&oldid=69046 * Lebster * (+1) /* Commands */
22:52:11 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69048&oldid=69047 * Lebster * (+116)
22:52:29 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69049&oldid=68852 * Lebster * (+17) /* Created Languages */
22:54:50 <esowiki> [[!!Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69050&oldid=69038 * Lebster * (+156)
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23:02:17 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69051&oldid=69049 * Lebster * (+301) /* Created Languages */
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01:07:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69052&oldid=68975 * Lebster * (+25) added !!Fuck and Rogex
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03:14:09 <esowiki> [[Talk:Andrew's Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69053&oldid=65140 * DmilkaSTD * (+51)
03:32:55 <esowiki> [[Talk:Andrew's Programming Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69054&oldid=69053 * JonoCode9374 * (+254)
03:43:37 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69055&oldid=69048 * Lebster * (+24) /* Commands */
04:18:00 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69056&oldid=69055 * Lebster * (+6) /* Commands */
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04:28:07 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69057&oldid=69056 * Lebster * (-53) /* Commands */
04:29:50 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69058&oldid=69057 * Lebster * (-3) /* Commands */
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04:50:33 <zzo38> I received a message that "as of early 2020, only 5 free open nntp servers [that include enough Usenet newsgroups and do not require an account to use] exist". The one I am using is one of the ones listed there, but if it stops working in future now I can know which one to try next, I suppose.
04:56:31 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69059&oldid=69058 * Lebster * (+1849)
05:01:22 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69060&oldid=69020 * Quadril-Is * (+152) Updated alphapolyglot
05:02:13 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69061&oldid=69036 * Quadril-Is * (+64)
05:10:05 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69062&oldid=69061 * Quadril-Is * (+7) /* Deadfish~ */ updated alphapolyglot, c and h do stuff apparently
05:17:21 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69063&oldid=69062 * Quadril-Is * (+29) /* Deadfish~ */ It now prints De
05:26:48 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69064&oldid=69063 * Quadril-Is * (+465) /* Deadfish~ */ oh no
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05:52:06 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69065&oldid=69064 * Quadril-Is * (+292) /* Uncancellable */ a
06:23:36 <zzo38> See if this is good http://sprunge.us/eWKnXK or maybe some changes should be made
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08:37:14 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69066 * Oklomsy * (+680) Created page with "DanicaFisk is a programming language made by [[User:Oklomsy|Oklomsy]] It is still a work in progress. == Name Origins == DanicaFisk is a combination of the latin word Danic..."
09:10:32 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69067&oldid=69066 * Oklomsy * (+90)
09:24:23 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69068&oldid=69067 * Oklomsy * (+496)
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09:27:27 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69069&oldid=69068 * Oklomsy * (+313)
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09:39:38 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69070&oldid=69069 * Oklomsy * (+45) /* Syntax */
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09:41:04 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69071&oldid=69070 * Oklomsy * (+706)
09:41:52 <A-ee> Anyone interested in finding the computational class of my language(https://github.com/a-ee/w)? Esolangs page is https://esolangs.org/wiki/W_(A)
09:45:55 <A-ee> I mean, I will be glad to here that it's Turing-Complete.
09:46:34 <A-ee> where here = hear
09:50:20 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69072&oldid=69071 * Oklomsy * (-78)
10:08:42 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69073&oldid=69072 * Oklomsy * (-1221)
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10:20:53 <esowiki> [[DanicaFisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69074&oldid=69073 * Oklomsy * (-161)
10:21:15 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oklomsy * moved [[DanicaFisk]] to [[Danica]]: No longer related to fish.
10:23:50 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69077&oldid=69075 * Oklomsy * (-251)
10:29:17 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69078&oldid=69077 * Oklomsy * (+59)
10:30:35 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69079&oldid=69078 * Oklomsy * (+94)
10:41:41 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69080&oldid=69079 * Oklomsy * (+295)
10:44:53 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69081&oldid=68974 * Oklomsy * (+77)
10:47:21 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69082&oldid=69080 * Oklomsy * (+118) /* Interpreter */
10:52:58 <esowiki> [[Beecode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69083 * Oklomsy * (+477) Created page with "Beecode is a programming language made by [[User:Oklomsy|Oklomsy]]. It only has a single command, bee which prints out the first sentence of the bee movie script. == Syntax..."
10:53:31 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69084&oldid=69082 * Oklomsy * (+29)
10:54:46 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69085&oldid=69081 * Oklomsy * (+85)
10:57:21 <esowiki> [[User talk:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69086 * Quadril-Is * (+136) Created page with "This is getting a bit hard for me to do... --~~~~"
10:57:45 <esowiki> [[User talk:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69087&oldid=69086 * Quadril-Is * (-10)
10:59:03 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69088&oldid=68756 * Oklomsy * (-51)
10:59:20 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69089&oldid=69088 * Oklomsy * (-10)
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11:18:57 <wib_jonas> Dear people who make these online payment forms that ask for card details, please figure out a single order of the fields, and ideally a similar format across sites, because I keep typing my name in the card number field or the card number in the bank name field.
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12:48:57 <wib_jonas> we should start fixing the problem that domain names are written with the least significant component first. if we can make programs accept domain names in the normal order with a different separator, such as the plus sign, then 40 years from now we can start writing domain names that way.
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12:50:55 <wib_jonas> we're already somewhat advanced at using date formats that aren't mixed endian, as in "2020-01-20 13:49:58 +0000" rather than "Mon 20 Jan 13:49:58 UTC 2020"
12:51:02 <HackEso> Mon Jan 20 12:51:01 UTC 2020
12:51:28 <wib_jonas> date and ls and asctime are stuck with these default formats, but we don't have to use those defaults
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14:35:11 <esowiki> [[Beecode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69090&oldid=69083 * Oklomsy * (+151)
14:38:34 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69091&oldid=68792 * Oklomsy * (+271)
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15:47:25 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69092&oldid=69052 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* X */ Adding my golfing language
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16:12:02 <kspalaiologos> my recent discovery: 432 Hz sounds better than 440 Hz
16:12:39 <HackEso> 1280) <ais523> hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps
16:13:09 <kingoffrance> not me, but i know there are different names for systems, going wayyyyy back; intersects with poetry IIRC
16:13:39 <kspalaiologos> with (possibly) the same intervals as 440 Hz Rockefeller system
16:13:46 <kingoffrance> i dont know music, just doesnt surprise me i mean
16:14:18 <kspalaiologos> I mean yeah, but I'm doing something different than the ancient Pythagorean system
16:16:58 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: make sure to test if you can replicate that preference a week from now, and with different sound equipment (amplifier, cable, headphones or speakers, everything analog), in case it's just a local error.
16:17:27 <wib_jonas> you can't easily replace your ears, which is why I suggest waiting a week so temporary problems can clear up
16:22:30 <kspalaiologos> obviously the music is terrible so it's not very easy to get the sense of the runing
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16:24:27 <int-e> Maybe it's your speakers.
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17:13:54 <int-e> https://arxiv.org/abs/2001.04383 seems highly esoteric.
17:16:37 <Taneb> I really need to learn quantum computing
17:17:02 <int-e> (Disclaimer: I make no claims of understanding any of it.)
17:33:40 <HackEso> kspalaiologos is a brainfuck addict and a late night Perl hacker. He's secretly disassembling brainfuck code for a casino that lost the source code. Apparently knows the secret of Malbolge.
17:34:30 <int-e> . o O ( s/a brainfuck addict/THE brainfuck enthusiast/ )
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20:16:15 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69093&oldid=68627 * Hex96 * (+36)
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23:27:54 <esowiki> [[Grawlix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69094&oldid=57268 * DMC * (-5)
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02:11:22 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cosine * New user account
02:13:47 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69095&oldid=69000 * Cosine * (+204) /* Introductions */
02:19:31 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69096&oldid=69059 * Lebster * (+3021) /* Interpreter */
02:21:53 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69097&oldid=69096 * Lebster * (+86)
02:30:29 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69098&oldid=69044 * Lebster * (-4) /* Cat */
02:32:08 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69099&oldid=69097 * Lebster * (+141)
02:32:40 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69100&oldid=69051 * Lebster * (+45) /* Created Languages */
02:42:54 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Lebster * uploaded "[[File:Rogex Logo.png]]"
02:43:40 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69102&oldid=69099 * Lebster * (+47)
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03:45:13 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69103&oldid=69102 * Lebster * (+0)
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04:50:42 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Alphapolyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69104&oldid=69065 * Quadril-Is * (+13) /* Uncancellable */
05:12:34 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69105&oldid=69103 * JonoCode9374 * (+301) /* Examples */
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05:17:02 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69106&oldid=68988 * JonoCode9374 * (+12) /* Languages I like */
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07:03:38 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69107&oldid=69084 * Oklomsy * (-11) /* Input System */
07:04:00 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69108&oldid=69107 * Oklomsy * (+1) /* Interpreter */
07:06:58 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69109&oldid=69091 * Oklomsy * (+27)
07:07:18 <esowiki> [[Beecode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69110&oldid=69090 * Oklomsy * (+18)
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07:08:14 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69111&oldid=69108 * Oklomsy * (+18)
08:36:09 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69112&oldid=69111 * Oklomsy * (-22)
08:36:48 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69113&oldid=69112 * Oklomsy * (-23)
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09:08:47 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69114&oldid=69113 * Oklomsy * (+105)
09:09:11 <esowiki> [[Danica]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69115&oldid=69114 * Oklomsy * (-37)
09:47:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:Naz]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69116 * JonoCode9374 * (+211) /* A quick question */ new section
09:47:52 <esowiki> [[User:JonoCode9374]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69117&oldid=69106 * JonoCode9374 * (+10) /* Languages I like */
10:58:58 <esowiki> [[Naz]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69118&oldid=68522 * JonoCode9374 * (-11) Very minor grammar fix
11:08:12 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69119&oldid=69105 * JonoCode9374 * (+1) /* Print Number 1 to 10 */
11:08:14 <esowiki> [[Referencement]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69120&oldid=68029 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
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13:47:04 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69121&oldid=68990 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+34) /* xEec */
13:54:52 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69122&oldid=69060 * Quadril-Is * (+55)
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14:12:07 <esowiki> [[Talk:Naz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69123&oldid=69116 * A * (+250)
14:14:47 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69124&oldid=68355 * A * (+54) /* Spam pages */
14:15:19 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69125&oldid=69124 * A * (+52)
14:15:33 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69126&oldid=69125 * A * (+1)
14:16:04 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69127&oldid=69126 * A * (+47)
14:16:33 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69128&oldid=69127 * A * (-1)
14:16:42 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69129&oldid=69128 * A * (+1)
14:19:06 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69130&oldid=69129 * A * (+7)
14:19:17 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69131&oldid=69130 * A * (-1)
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19:27:52 <arseniiv> can’t think up an eso type system. Any interesting type system invented as already somewhat eso, or take Haskell type-level hackery for example
19:30:19 <arseniiv> so I’m just blocked because I think I can’t make an at least a bit useful typing not bearing resemblance to one which is used for good in some famous production-ready language
19:31:24 <arseniiv> hm this reminds me things shouldn’t be done this way, that probably shouldn’t be a goal in itself
19:37:26 <arseniiv> one day I came up with a strange little type system was when I eyed up recursive functions formalism once again and assigned each function a type m if it takes m arguments, but because I overgeneralized one part, it was needed to consider types ≥m for one could construct a constant function of unspecified number of arguments and then add nonfictive arguments later. Then I fixed the formulation and ≥m types vanished. They didn’t have any uses, th
19:37:26 <arseniiv> ough they made an interesting subtyping lattice
19:38:59 <arseniiv> so overall that was a dead end but when it would be nice if that thing would find some use. But it won’t
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19:41:03 <b_jonas> yes, Haskell with modern extensions has a crazy complicated type system
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20:36:02 <arseniiv> b_jonas: hm you gave me a minor idea: we could add eso-ness by further complicating type error messages. As we know, usual languages usually try to make such messages more friendly at least in frequently occuring cases
20:36:48 <arseniiv> though I partly know INTERCAL had this in part covered. I don’t know how much of its error messages are type errors but it sets the bar pretty high
20:38:07 <arseniiv> and these messages shouldn’t look like really unnecessary complications, they should rise from language’s notions organically, like INTERCAL’s politeness errors because there are too much or not enough `please` statements or something
20:39:21 <arseniiv> (though on the third hand, INTERCAL is pretty outdated in regards to cultural significance so how much up it sets the bar is not that relevant)
20:39:54 <arseniiv> (I mean, it was IIRC mostly a reaction to ALGOL and something like that?)
21:07:16 <b_jonas> arseniiv: if you make a language powerful enough at compile time, like haskell or C++, then people necessarily write programs that abuse that power and are too clever for their own good, and then you get error messages that are hard to understand despite all efforts of the compiler writers.
21:10:18 <arseniiv> b_jonas: yeah I know there can usually be only best-effort fixes, not a fix that would make all error messages immediately clear
21:11:34 <arseniiv> (hm though library writers may meddle with these matters in some cases, so no general compiler fix is needed yet their library would give more adequate error messages)
21:11:51 <b_jonas> and those are usually still better than the error messages you get at runtime segfaults after trashing memory by writing through out of bound indexes or stray pointers
21:27:18 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69132&oldid=69045 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+321)
21:43:12 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainflow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69133 * DmilkaSTD * (+2945) Created page with "== C++ interpreter == #include <iostream> // Variables /* Code: Change this */ unsigned char code[] = ""; unsigned char tape[255]; // Tape unsigned cha..."
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21:47:35 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69134&oldid=68805 * DmilkaSTD * (+106)
21:47:52 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69135&oldid=69134 * DmilkaSTD * (+19)
21:48:10 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69136&oldid=69135 * DmilkaSTD * (+4)
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21:54:15 <esowiki> [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69137&oldid=61570 * DmilkaSTD * (+206)
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21:58:35 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69138&oldid=69093 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+30) /* x-D */ Adding my language
22:01:48 <esowiki> [[Shorten your Brainfuck code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69139&oldid=57657 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Read the quastion carefully */ Fixed typo ('quastion' -> 'question')
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22:09:40 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69140 * DmilkaSTD * (+496) Created page with "BF-ASM:8 is an esolang made to be translated to Brainfuck. == Instructions == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Instruction !! Description !! Equivalent in brainfuck |- | add '''x'''..."
22:10:28 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69141&oldid=69140 * DmilkaSTD * (+32)
22:11:38 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69142&oldid=69141 * DmilkaSTD * (+103)
22:11:56 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69143&oldid=69142 * DmilkaSTD * (+8)
22:12:22 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69144&oldid=69143 * DmilkaSTD * (+0)
22:15:49 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: are you making sockpuppets on the wiki?
22:16:52 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69145&oldid=69144 * DmilkaSTD * (+218)
22:17:36 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69146&oldid=69145 * DmilkaSTD * (+2)
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22:30:13 <b_jonas> it's just someone who also doesn't have much fantasy when it comes to esoteric language names
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22:31:10 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69147&oldid=69146 * DmilkaSTD * (-162)
22:32:06 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69148&oldid=69147 * DmilkaSTD * (+150)
22:38:58 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69149&oldid=69148 * DmilkaSTD * (-97)
22:40:23 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69150&oldid=69149 * DmilkaSTD * (+9)
22:42:49 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69151&oldid=69150 * DmilkaSTD * (+47)
22:46:27 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69152&oldid=69136 * DmilkaSTD * (+306)
22:47:01 <esowiki> [[(HA)pple waITING]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69153&oldid=68827 * DmilkaSTD * (+38)
22:47:09 <esowiki> [[(HA)pple waITING]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69154&oldid=69153 * DmilkaSTD * (+4)
22:51:35 <esowiki> [[Esomachine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69155&oldid=67735 * DmilkaSTD * (-90)
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22:54:39 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69156&oldid=69151 * DmilkaSTD * (+286)
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23:04:42 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69157&oldid=69156 * DmilkaSTD * (+839)
23:06:42 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69158&oldid=69157 * DmilkaSTD * (+75)
23:07:15 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69159&oldid=69158 * DmilkaSTD * (+19)
23:07:55 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69160&oldid=69159 * DmilkaSTD * (+31)
23:08:50 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69161&oldid=69160 * DmilkaSTD * (+29)
23:10:41 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69162&oldid=69161 * DmilkaSTD * (+195)
23:11:22 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69163&oldid=69162 * DmilkaSTD * (+18)
23:13:31 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69164&oldid=69163 * DmilkaSTD * (+166)
23:15:05 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69165&oldid=69164 * DmilkaSTD * (+49)
23:22:22 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69166&oldid=69165 * DmilkaSTD * (+530)
23:22:50 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69167&oldid=69166 * DmilkaSTD * (-111)
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23:24:49 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69168&oldid=69167 * DmilkaSTD * (+161)
23:25:50 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69169&oldid=69168 * DmilkaSTD * (-10)
23:28:28 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69170&oldid=69131 * A * (+192)
23:29:16 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69171&oldid=69152 * DmilkaSTD * (-3)
23:32:50 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69172&oldid=69169 * DmilkaSTD * (+102)
23:33:31 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69173&oldid=69172 * DmilkaSTD * (+0)
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05:04:39 <esowiki> [[Shorten your Brainfuck code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69174&oldid=69139 * Rdebath * (-79) "Normal" is not that bad.
05:11:27 <esowiki> [[Shorten your Brainfuck code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69175&oldid=69174 * Rdebath * (-5) Only need one modulo loop for smaller
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11:12:35 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69176 * Oklomsy * (+782) Created page with "Assemblei is a esoteric programming language made by [[User:Oklomsy|Oklomsy]] == Syntax == In assemblei, there are 8 cells, each cell is a digit in binary, you can move to d..."
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12:41:48 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69177&oldid=69176 * Oklomsy * (+47)
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12:43:22 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69178&oldid=69177 * Oklomsy * (+114)
12:49:51 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69179&oldid=69089 * Oklomsy * (+55)
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12:52:52 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69180&oldid=69179 * Oklomsy * (+334) Added a new post
12:53:17 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69181&oldid=69180 * Oklomsy * (-47) /* Switching to more advanced languages. */
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12:57:17 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69182&oldid=69085 * Oklomsy * (+84)
13:06:17 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69183&oldid=69181 * Oklomsy * (+47)
13:06:46 <esowiki> [[Boobeans]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69184 * Oklomsy * (+57) Created page with "Boobeans is a language made by [[User:Oklomsy | Oklomsy]]"
13:08:50 <esowiki> [[Boobeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69185&oldid=69184 * Oklomsy * (+746)
13:09:16 <esowiki> [[Boobeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69186&oldid=69185 * Oklomsy * (+26)
13:09:27 <esowiki> [[Boobeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69187&oldid=69186 * Oklomsy * (+2)
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15:42:06 <esowiki> [[Alphaprint]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69188 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+659) Created page with "'''Alphaprint''' is a language made by [[User:PythonshellDebugWindow]]. ==Structure== The program is made up of an arbitrary-size repeating lowercase string of the alphabet,..."
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15:53:10 <esowiki> [[Alphaprint]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69189&oldid=69188 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0)
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17:55:09 <HackEso> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
17:55:14 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=507
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21:18:25 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69190&oldid=68997 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+17)
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22:02:25 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69191&oldid=69132 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+130) /* Examples */
22:02:42 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69192&oldid=69191 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) /* Infinite loop of nops (2 bytes) */
22:03:17 <esowiki> [[XENBLN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69193&oldid=69192 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) /* Examples */
22:03:58 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69194&oldid=69121 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-14) /* XENBLN */
23:03:40 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69195&oldid=69173 * DmilkaSTD * (+127)
23:05:27 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69196&oldid=69195 * DmilkaSTD * (-1678)
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23:30:38 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69197&oldid=69196 * DmilkaSTD * (+599)
23:30:55 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69198&oldid=69197 * DmilkaSTD * (+6)
23:33:50 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69199&oldid=69198 * DmilkaSTD * (+130)
23:38:18 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69200&oldid=69199 * DmilkaSTD * (+71)
23:39:59 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69201&oldid=69200 * DmilkaSTD * (+93)
23:40:55 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69202&oldid=69201 * DmilkaSTD * (-4)
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23:56:17 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69203 * DmilkaSTD * (+73) Created page with "MineScript is a esolang inspired on the game '''Minecraft'''. == Rules =="
23:56:57 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69204&oldid=69203 * DmilkaSTD * (+71)
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00:00:40 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69205&oldid=69204 * DmilkaSTD * (+324)
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00:01:59 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69206&oldid=69205 * DmilkaSTD * (+39)
00:02:55 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69207&oldid=69206 * DmilkaSTD * (+52)
00:03:28 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69208&oldid=69207 * DmilkaSTD * (+8)
00:03:40 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69209&oldid=69208 * DmilkaSTD * (+8)
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00:05:01 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69210&oldid=69209 * DmilkaSTD * (+96)
00:06:48 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69211&oldid=69210 * DmilkaSTD * (+131)
00:07:16 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69212&oldid=69211 * DmilkaSTD * (-12)
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00:09:03 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69213&oldid=69212 * DmilkaSTD * (+248)
00:21:49 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69214&oldid=69213 * DmilkaSTD * (+651)
00:24:26 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69215&oldid=69214 * DmilkaSTD * (+180)
00:26:57 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69216&oldid=69215 * DmilkaSTD * (+25)
00:34:03 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69217&oldid=69216 * DmilkaSTD * (+75)
00:39:02 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69218&oldid=69217 * DmilkaSTD * (+250)
00:52:16 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69219&oldid=69218 * DmilkaSTD * (+776)
00:57:06 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69220&oldid=69219 * DmilkaSTD * (+183)
00:59:47 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RocketRace * New user account
01:07:54 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69221&oldid=69220 * DmilkaSTD * (+474)
01:08:11 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69222&oldid=69221 * DmilkaSTD * (+6)
01:14:33 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69223&oldid=69222 * DmilkaSTD * (+380)
01:15:43 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69224&oldid=69223 * DmilkaSTD * (+169)
01:17:43 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69225&oldid=69224 * DmilkaSTD * (+71)
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03:07:08 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69226&oldid=69095 * RocketRace * (+295) Introduction for user RocketRace
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03:39:27 <esowiki> [[Category talk:Esoteric subset]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69227 * YamTokTpaFa * (+200) Created page with "== Where should we categorize this category? == Isn't this a part of [[:Category:Languages|languages]]? --~~~~"
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06:54:34 <esowiki> [[Boobeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69228&oldid=69187 * Oklomsy * (+47)
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07:08:55 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69229&oldid=69178 * Oklomsy * (+62)
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08:20:41 <esowiki> [[User talk:RocketRace]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69230 * Hex96 * (+20) Created page with "Welcome to esolangs!"
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10:04:03 <myname> "SystemE: A lightweight systemd replacement written in Emacs Lisp"
10:17:20 <esowiki> [[User talk:RocketRace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69231&oldid=69230 * JonoCode9374 * (+162)
10:17:34 <esowiki> [[User talk:RocketRace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69232&oldid=69231 * JonoCode9374 * (+10)
11:29:33 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69233&oldid=68977 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Indentation
11:32:10 <esowiki> [[Unrandom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69234&oldid=68972 * IFcoltransG * (+33) Linked to Unpseudorandom
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12:11:24 <esowiki> [[User:Oklomsy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69235&oldid=69183 * Oklomsy * (+20)
12:12:31 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69236&oldid=69109 * Oklomsy * (-547) I removed the javascript interpreter since it was old and the new one was better.
12:13:01 <esowiki> [[Robolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69237&oldid=69236 * Oklomsy * (-86)
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13:07:49 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69238&oldid=69229 * Oklomsy * (+188)
13:18:09 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69239&oldid=69182 * Oklomsy * (+62)
13:22:40 <esowiki> [[Hello++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69240&oldid=65887 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+121) /* Interpreter */
13:52:42 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69241&oldid=69122 * Quadril-Is * (+103) Ok it turns out polyglots are good
13:53:16 <esowiki> [[User:Quadril-Is/Back and Fish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69242 * Quadril-Is * (+53) Created page with "Hello, world! v >0 !v"!dlrow ,olleH"ooooooooooooo;@"
13:59:02 <esowiki> [[The Temporary Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69243&oldid=67929 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+87)
13:59:35 <esowiki> [[The Temporary Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69244&oldid=69243 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) /* Examples */
14:02:59 <esowiki> [[The Temporary Stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69245&oldid=69244 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* The stack */
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15:37:02 <arseniiv> Earth seems blue from far away but it has fire deep inside
15:37:29 <rain1> that's poetic and cool
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16:10:59 <HackEso> Topologically speaking, the Earth has been a coffee mug ever since that hole to China was dug.
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16:18:56 <Taneb> Wouldn't, like, any tunnel or bridge or person standing with their legs apart change the Earth's Euler characteristic?
16:21:14 <fizzie> I don't know about bridges or people, maybe they're not really part of the Earth object.
16:24:39 <myname> well, but i suppose there is way more than one tunnel on earth
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16:27:21 <arseniiv> a coffee mug which doesn’t hold coffee very well
16:27:48 <wib_jonas> If I want to make an alphabet of 64 ascii characters for base64 encoding such that the encoded string goes into the query part of a http url, what's the best alphabet for that? I'm thinking of !$'()*+,-./123456789:;=?@BCDGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ_bcdghjklmnpqrstvwxz because that adds a lot of punctuation that are valid in urls but formatting engines like
16:27:49 <wib_jonas> google mail or stack exchange or phpbb hate in urls and to the hell with those incorrect implementations, and removes vowels and "F" so it's harder for it to accidentally spell rude words.
16:28:05 <wib_jonas> Or is that not sufficiently esoteric?
16:28:47 <kmc> you're reminding me of the 'earth sandwich' silliness
16:29:02 <Taneb> arseniiv: what are you talking about? It's capable of holding all the coffee in the world!
16:29:07 <wib_jonas> Maybe I should make it likely to contain rude words, like put ".ad." and ".sex." in domain names, to catch those stupid badly configured proxies that filter pages with those in the name
16:29:59 <rain1> here is a fun fact from #math
16:30:00 <rain1> have you ever convinced yourself of this seemingly-wacko-but-neat fact? In any metric space, if x_1, x_2, x_3, ... -> x (convergence), then if p: N -> N is any permutation whatsoever, the rearranged sequence x_p(1), x_p(2), x_p(3), ... -> x also.
16:32:37 <arseniiv> this one is of the sort of strange things that happen in infinite-dimensional vector spaces too
16:33:28 <arseniiv> I don’t understand functional analysis because of those, I think
16:36:43 <kmc> wait, what's the definition of convergence
16:38:07 <rain1> forall eps, exists N, forall m,n >= N, |x_m - x_n| < eps
16:38:55 <kmc> yeah i guess it would be true
16:41:23 <kmc> assume this is true of the original sequence, then define N' = min(i where p(j) >= N forall j >= i)
16:41:48 <kmc> which must exist, because there are only a finite number of numbers less than N
16:41:48 <rain1> yeah nice way to do it
16:42:05 <kmc> thank you for the seemingly-wacko-but-neat fact
16:44:38 <kmc> I'm guessing there is some coffee in low earth orbit
16:44:47 <int-e> Ah it can be so much fun to spend hours on a one-off program so that it runs in a second rather than 5 minutes. :)
16:44:48 <kmc> although arguably that's 'held' by the earth just as much as the rest of the coffee
16:45:26 <wib_jonas> kmc: and some more in the solar system, next to Russell's teapot
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16:46:31 <int-e> Do astronauts drink coffee... really, why not...
16:46:33 <kmc> Russell's cafetière
16:55:44 <rain1> i never got the hang of thursdays
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17:00:11 <kmc> Thor's day
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17:06:40 <int-e> Had to look it up, it's "I never could get the hang of Thursdays."
17:07:59 <Taneb> I never could remember where I left my copy of that book
17:08:28 <int-e> . o O ( Get another? )
17:09:23 <Taneb> I think it's it my parents' house
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19:43:30 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69246&oldid=68593 * Palaiologos * (+802) v1.2.8a: Data label preprocessor.
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19:50:17 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69247&oldid=69246 * Palaiologos * (+1910) paste VERSIONING over.
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21:13:46 <esowiki> [[PlusOrMinus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69248 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1282) Created page with "'''PlusOrMinus''' ('''POM''') is a language by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. ==Memory== POM uses a wrapping unsigned integer 8-bit accumulator. ==Commands== {| class="wik..."
21:15:33 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69249&oldid=69092 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+62) /* P */
21:18:10 <esowiki> [[Print Function Deluxe]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69250&oldid=59732 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) /* Commands */ SyntaxError line 30: caught SyntaxError
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21:36:17 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69251&oldid=69190 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+78)
21:37:02 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69252&oldid=69251 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0)
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22:07:12 <esowiki> [[LogicF---]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69253 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1905) Logicfuck
22:08:42 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69254 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+221) Created page with "'''Line Feed''' is a language in which the only valid character is a newline. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable sortable" ! Command !! Definition |- | (newline) || Nop |} All..."
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22:47:17 <HackEso> brexit:brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space. This command was recently discovered to have a bug where it will repeatedly delay itself if not enough force is available.
22:57:47 <Rerednaw> do someone know a way to change a pseudonym?
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23:54:53 * kingoffrance .oO( wonders if wanderer will come back as redrum )
23:55:59 * kingoffrance .oO( wonders if these thought bubbles are an homage to comic chat or precede it )
23:56:59 * kingoffrance .oO( imagines an ms comic chat character named redrum )
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07:21:28 <esowiki> [[Assemblei]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69255&oldid=69238 * Oklomsy * (+90)
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08:01:03 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Salpynx * uploaded "[[File:Hello-world.png]]"
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08:08:40 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Salpynx * uploaded "[[File:Cyclic Tag productions in Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus.png]]"
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08:19:47 <esowiki> [[Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69258 * Salpynx * (+6201) A new lang for 2020. Not yet as polished as I'd like, but thought it was worth sharing.
08:22:14 <esowiki> [[Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69259&oldid=69258 * Salpynx * (+12) /* Syntax */ hanging sentence
08:24:34 <esowiki> [[Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69260&oldid=69259 * Salpynx * (+2) /* Arbitrary Cyclic Tag behaviour */ correct heading level
08:35:46 <esowiki> [[Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69261&oldid=69260 * Salpynx * (-1) /* Computational class */ typo
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11:15:18 <esowiki> [[*W]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69262&oldid=61931 * IFcoltransG * (+985) Added info from spec
11:16:38 <esowiki> [[Onov]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69263&oldid=68590 * IFcoltransG * (+1) /* Infinite cat */ Spelling mistake
11:18:53 <esowiki> [[Onov]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69264&oldid=69263 * IFcoltransG * (+43) Categories
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11:36:27 <esowiki> [[SimpleScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69265&oldid=68173 * IFcoltransG * (+128) Categories. If not actually a bf derivative, sorry!
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11:45:18 <esowiki> [[Rejji]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69266&oldid=65873 * IFcoltransG * (+79) Categories, plus neutralised some language choices
11:45:31 <esowiki> [[Celsee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69267&oldid=63649 * IFcoltransG * (+135) Categories
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11:47:24 <esowiki> [[BOREDOM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69268&oldid=65366 * IFcoltransG * (+25) Impl. cat.
11:56:04 <esowiki> [[BOREDOM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69269&oldid=69268 * IFcoltransG * (-27) Improved grammar
12:01:16 <esowiki> [[User:IFcoltransG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69270&oldid=69233 * IFcoltransG * (+200) Added link to the list of HQ9+ derivatives I made
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12:10:07 <esowiki> [[PlusOrMinus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69271&oldid=69248 * IFcoltransG * (+50) Categories implemented and output only
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12:18:46 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69272&oldid=69254 * IFcoltransG * (+23) Changed categories; this is clearly a joke language.
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12:20:45 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69273&oldid=69272 * IFcoltransG * (+38) Another category
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13:21:47 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69274&oldid=69239 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
13:26:24 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69275&oldid=69274 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) /* General languages */
13:36:21 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69276&oldid=69252 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+71)
13:36:41 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69277&oldid=69276 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14)
13:37:47 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69278&oldid=69247 * Palaiologos * (-112) Wrong as of trunk update.
13:43:26 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69279&oldid=69273 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+53)
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14:35:06 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69280&oldid=66148 * EnilKoder * (+267) /* Values */
14:35:46 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69281&oldid=69280 * EnilKoder * (-369) /* Defining custom functions */
14:36:10 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69282&oldid=69281 * EnilKoder * (-988) /* Control structures */
14:37:06 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69283&oldid=69282 * EnilKoder * (+1) /* Variables */
14:39:20 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69284&oldid=69283 * EnilKoder * (+153) /* Symbols */
14:41:08 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69285&oldid=69284 * EnilKoder * (+4) /* Example Programs */
14:43:47 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69286&oldid=69285 * EnilKoder * (+109) /* Symbols */
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14:57:31 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69287&oldid=69286 * EnilKoder * (-3) /* FizzBuzz */
14:58:25 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69288&oldid=69287 * EnilKoder * (+3) /* Truth Machine */
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20:03:03 <esowiki> [[LogicF---]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69289&oldid=69253 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13)
20:14:43 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69290&oldid=69279 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23)
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20:41:36 <esowiki> [[Or]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69291&oldid=68287 * SoundOfScripting * (-37) Made title lowercase?
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21:19:07 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69292 * Lebster * (+6012) Created page with "'''DetailedFuck''' is a clone of [[Brainfuck]]. The goal of DetailedFuck is to allow for easier understandably of brainfuck code. It is a member of the TrivialBrainfuckSubst..."
21:19:12 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69293&oldid=69100 * Lebster * (+47) /* Created Languages */
21:19:17 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69294&oldid=69293 * Lebster * (+1) /* Joke Languages */
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22:05:03 <esowiki> [[ROT8fuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69295 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+770) Not done yet
22:05:23 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69296&oldid=69277 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+45)
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00:50:13 <zzo38> I have tried a variant of the "Average" filter used in PNG. In my variant, the average is rounded toward 128 rather than toward 0, and the difference from the predicted value is stored differently. For predicted values less than 128 (p is the prediction and x is the actual value), use 2(p-x)-1 for x<p, use 2(x-p) for p<x<2p, use x otherwise.
00:51:26 <zzo38> My tests so far seem to be that this improves compression by 1% for huffed data compared with the more common way.
00:51:44 <zzo38> Do you have a comment of this please?
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01:45:19 <kingoffrance> i dunno there is a "pngcrush" program i used to use, that tries various things (all "lossless" I believe); might be interesting to see what it does
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01:52:04 <zzo38> What I mentioned is not compatible with PNG, though.
01:52:59 <kingoffrance> sorry, thats the closest i have got to such things :/
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05:44:39 <esowiki> [[Scope]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69297 * IFcoltransG * (+2670) Created page, with a bit of explanatory text
06:21:36 <zzo38> I think that a better web browser program can include multiple views of the document: normal view, presentation view, print view, ARIA view, source view.
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06:42:21 <esowiki> [[Call/cc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69298&oldid=59130 * IFcoltransG * (+4287) Added some other ways to think that might help. If they don't, get your hands on practical examples.
06:45:09 <esowiki> [[Call/cc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69299&oldid=69298 * IFcoltransG * (+100) Added a brief taster in the introduction
06:47:00 <esowiki> [[Call/cc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69300&oldid=69299 * IFcoltransG * (-15) Changed title to actually be lowercase, rather than {{wrongtitle}}
06:52:18 <esowiki> [[Dd]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69301&oldid=68731 * IFcoltransG * (-37) {{wrongtitle}} -> {{lowercase}} template
06:56:11 <esowiki> [[User talk:Stestoltz]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69302 * IFcoltransG * (+216) Created page with "==Templates== You can use the lowercase template instead of wrongtitle, to get rid of any unsightly explanation messages. ~~~~"
06:56:45 <esowiki> [[User talk:Stestoltz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69303&oldid=69302 * IFcoltransG * (+28)
07:05:05 <esowiki> [[No-code esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69304&oldid=66496 * IFcoltransG * (+12) Categories and template
07:05:21 <esowiki> [[No-code esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69305&oldid=69304 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Formatting mishap corrected
07:06:31 <esowiki> [[Category:Language constructs]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69306&oldid=45247 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Added concepts category
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07:35:00 <esowiki> [[Recursion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69307&oldid=67428 * IFcoltransG * (+1765) Added more info, removed stub template
07:37:37 <esowiki> [[Unrandom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69308&oldid=69234 * IFcoltransG * (+30)
07:38:07 <esowiki> [[Unpseudorandom]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69309&oldid=68973 * IFcoltransG * (+30) Added 0-d category
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08:37:12 <zzo38> For the pictures I have tried, the following command seems to compress better than bzip2 (although losing the alpha channel and reducing to 8 bits per channel): ff-paeth e | ff-bitmask FFFFFFFFFFFF0000 8080808080800000 | ff-ycocg 8 | ffavs | tail -c+8 | xz -F raw --delta=dist=4 --lzma2=preset=9,lc=2,lp=2,pb=2 Although depending on the picture, ff-bitmask and/or delta coding may be omitted for better compression.
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09:57:05 <rain1> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremermann%27s_limit
10:12:22 <rain1> https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0110141
10:12:56 <esowiki> [[HaPyLi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69310&oldid=46874 * IFcoltransG * (+100) Categories and formatting
10:17:37 <esowiki> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69311&oldid=68893 * IFcoltransG * (+24) Some links
10:18:56 <rain1> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margolus%E2%80%93Levitin_theorem
10:20:26 <esowiki> [[Multiprogramming]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69312&oldid=14189 * IFcoltransG * (+9) {{stub}} template added
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13:11:22 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Phantom Hoover * moved [[TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]] to [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]: why is this even capitalised like it's on tvtropes
13:11:22 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Phantom Hoover * moved [[Talk:TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]] to [[Talk:Trivial brainfuck substitution]]: why is this even capitalised like it's on tvtropes
13:18:01 <rain1> any thoughts about black hole entropy and quantum computation
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13:44:06 <kingoffrance> i dunno, i think the universe is mostly inside a black hole and its pretty much all quantum at this point
13:44:25 <kingoffrance> so with another black hole you might be able to escape
13:44:46 <kingoffrance> series of tubes, series of black holes, that sort of thing
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13:46:14 <kingoffrance> presumably you need a blacker hole to escape other black holes
13:46:33 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69331&oldid=69329 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) /* XENBLN */
13:47:40 <kingoffrance> so its kind of "choose your adventure" but black holes
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14:47:40 <rain1> yeah im starting to come aroudn to holographic universe theory
14:48:07 <rain1> it makes more sense after reading about the entropy on the surface of a black hole
14:51:07 <kingoffrance> i dunno science or religion per se, i just think sufficient people are so easily confused/mislead :/ in a sense they might create a holographic universe on accident; so forgive me if i misused the word "black hole" and meant it metaphorically
14:51:35 <kingoffrance> but, those are my thoughts when you say "black hole" :/
14:53:15 <kingoffrance> im not one of those "whatever people think becomes true/physical/manifests" but there is certainly two-way interchange IMO
14:53:33 <kingoffrance> different people have different mindsets and design different systems based on thus
14:55:21 <kingoffrance> some programmers build cathedrals others want bazaars :)
14:55:58 <kingoffrance> all the non-technical stuff seems to always bleed into programming, for better or worse
14:56:40 <kingoffrance> people always bring baggage with them, which is not all bad, but i always try to see "what was designer's mindset/philosophy" of any program/os/whatever
14:57:01 <kingoffrance> i never take any program/os at face value :/ 50/50 maybe, 50% technical 50% philosophy
14:58:31 <kingoffrance> well, languages too, but sometimes language == os == program :/ depends
15:02:23 <kingoffrance> i always thought programming as writing/art, so i always try to track down outside influences author(s) brought to technical table
15:04:52 <kingoffrance> somewhere i read art == technique IIRC, but some people argue against that too, i.e. pure technique is purely technical i.e. is no "art"
15:06:33 <kingoffrance> thats a philosophical thing: whether a particular technique/style encompasses or is derived from a philosophy/ies or can stand alone on its own
15:17:16 <kingoffrance> i do notice e.g. in #proglangdesign some people seem obsessed with concise syntax, which seems backwards to me
15:17:48 <kingoffrance> i would design solid innards/non-visible components first, THEN try to put a layer of friendliness on top
15:17:58 <kingoffrance> but people might argue that doesn't work, they have to be designed concurrently somewhat
15:18:25 <kingoffrance> or rather, the "friendly" syntax to me depends on what the lower layers/levels are doing/how they are constructed
15:18:55 <kingoffrance> but they are "optimizing for human reader/writer perhaps" and would accuse me of "optimizing for machine (or implementation of language)" maybe
15:19:38 <esowiki> [[Talk:If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69334&oldid=68609 * YamTokTpaFa * (+2061) /* Tried better implementation in C99 */ new section
15:20:36 <kingoffrance> so in that sense i am more "power" "technical" orientated as opposed to "visuals"
15:20:54 <esowiki> [[WII2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69335&oldid=59857 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24)
15:20:58 <kingoffrance> i suppose i consider the visuals all 'fiction' anyways, so they don't interest me as much
15:22:40 <kingoffrance> so in that sense, i am very much "philosophy first" even if "philosophy" is purely defined as "technical basis the other tech. sits on top of"
15:24:50 <kingoffrance> and that would also probably make me "people choose tech for non-tech reasons, so debating whether tech is inherently philosophical is meaningless; people make it such"
15:27:18 <kingoffrance> so for me, as long as there is more than one technique/style, there MUST be multiple competing philosophies that inspired them somehow
15:28:23 <kingoffrance> to separate into multiple components rather than one giant monolithic thing is inherently "philosophical decision" IMO and not purely technical decision
15:28:43 <kingoffrance> although they might do one way or other for "technical reasons" of course
15:32:24 <esowiki> [[User talk:Zzo38]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69336&oldid=67932 * YamTokTpaFa * (+316) /* I'd like to learn about AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! more. */
15:33:31 <esowiki> [[User talk:Zzo38]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69337&oldid=69336 * YamTokTpaFa * (+19) /* Another question about index shifter */
15:35:10 <kingoffrance> so e.g. to me "microkernel" to me is a philosophy/idea first, that has technical implications, i dont consider such a technical decision, but preceding the tech/implementation that grows up around it/is supposed to morph to match that decision
15:35:56 <kingoffrance> same thing: people might choose such for technical reasons, but it is an idea foremost IMO before the "technique" becomes "visible"
15:36:11 <esowiki> [[Talk:The Abstract Computer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69338 * YamTokTpaFa * (+154) Created page with "== Do you really nead the word the for article's name? == --~~~~"
15:37:13 <kingoffrance> so tech/technique to me is purely "manifested ideas" and cannot stand alone/there is no neutral
15:38:10 <esowiki> [[Template talk:Reflist]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69339 * YamTokTpaFa * (+145) Created page with "== How was this template supposed to be used? == --~~~~"
15:38:41 <kingoffrance> and people who ignore all the non-tech influences IMO leads to collosal mess of conflicting philosophies; ensures there implementation ends up scatterbrained
15:45:18 <int-e> kingoffrance: The Mach "micro"kernel may be a good example.
15:48:05 <kingoffrance> most that stuff should be obvious/cliche, but some people you say "philosophical decision" they consider all such make-believe
15:48:21 <kingoffrance> or "business/marketing" and doesn't influence tech/implemntation at all :/
15:52:12 <kingoffrance> ive heard people say it was slow, and gnu hurd i used to read a bit about, i dont recall some past hurd incarnations were sort of mach-based IIRC
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15:52:22 <int-e> (As I was taught it, the main purpose of a microkernel based OS is fault isolation; a driver messing up should not affect the rest of the system as long as it doesn't need that particular driver. In order to do this without being ridiculously slow, you need cheap context switches, since many operations take 4 context switches (program -> kernel -> driver -> kernel -> program), possibly more,...
15:52:28 <int-e> ...rather than 2 (program -> kernel -> program) now. Mach tracked too much information about processes and threads in the kernel (I forgot most of the details; one was that they actually had message queues, which at the time was a bad trade-off... things may have changed), so context switches were basically as expensive as on a macrokernel, but you had more of them. So in order to be...
15:52:34 <int-e> ...competetive, they started putting drivers into kernel mode, and that defeats the purpose.)
15:53:26 <kingoffrance> sounds like they had a grand idea, were forced to compromise, and dissolved into reality :)
15:54:12 <int-e> The Mach microkernel also isn't actually small. (Though I guess the really small microkernels of perhaps 16kb size only exist on embedded systems these days.)
15:55:11 <kingoffrance> when i used to read about hurd, part of reason it was slow moving seemed to be "upstream" kept dying :/
15:55:24 <kingoffrance> so then they'd have to scramble "do we keep our own fork going?" or try to "rebase" everything
15:55:36 <kingoffrance> and that explains why mach stuff died i suppose
15:55:40 <int-e> As I recall it, the original L4 microkernel for x86 was 8kb in size and made a point of having all common code paths fit into a single 4kb page, and the thread information in one or two cache lines.
15:57:10 <int-e> But it was written in assembly language, and the author died fairly young; all the L4 clones I know of are written mostly in C and C++.
15:57:42 <int-e> Uh, 48 actually. I though he was younger.
15:57:59 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jochen_Liedtke <-- seems he's relevant enough for Wikipedia
15:58:41 <int-e> Which I find entirely reasonable. But Wikipedia isn't excactly known for being reasonable. :)
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16:00:24 <kingoffrance> last i read IIRC some hurd movement was hoping to phase out any mach remnants
16:01:02 <kingoffrance> but perhaps hard to tell "one guy working alone sporadically thought he'd try that" versus "project is moving in that direction"
16:01:04 <int-e> I lost interest in Hurd before they ever made a release.
16:01:13 <kingoffrance> since they are arguably sometimes indistinguishable
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16:02:23 <kingoffrance> the release (debian i think) the installer borked on me, fs-related i think, so i lost interest at that point; or i didnt find sufficient instructions to do it properly
16:03:00 <kingoffrance> so when they get another release/installer i may browse again in a vm
16:04:02 <kingoffrance> i think they had some security issues, with a plan of ways to avoid, but hadnt been implemented yet IIRC
16:04:21 <kingoffrance> so there was a "plan" (maybe just one guy) hoping to correct some design flaws
16:04:48 <int-e> One of the deterrents is that the Linux kernel is amazingly reliable. I don't know what problem Hurd is solving (other than having a "true" GNU operating system, which I don't care about all that much.)
16:06:13 <int-e> And I do see the irony in putting that statement on #esoteric.
16:07:43 <kingoffrance> well, one can argue they tried to graft userland onto various kernels, and might have been better off starting from scratch than trying "shortcuts" :/ i dunno
16:08:05 <int-e> (The difference between Hurd and most #esoteric stuff is that the latter can usually be understood in a few minutes to hours, and often brings with it an intellectual challenge, which does alleviate an eternal problem... boredom.)
16:08:09 <kingoffrance> and that they werent "pure" enough, but gave in to temptation of quicker bootstrap
16:08:48 <kingoffrance> and now that upstream dies, they have to try to "ungraft" from upstream and pick a new kernel to foist onto
16:09:28 <kingoffrance> but with manpower they might argue that was/is the only sensical choice
16:11:46 <kingoffrance> i just like to build cross-compilers; i will revisit them someday i guess
16:13:57 <kingoffrance> last i checked, i dont recall they had a 64-bit thing yet either; which doesnt phase me, but for attracting new users/devs probably discourages things
16:14:13 <kingoffrance> and all the rust/etc. cant be helpful for existing code base either i imagine
16:15:08 <kingoffrance> lots of the 'interest' of potential devs seems to be elsewhere
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16:25:08 <kingoffrance> i think i see what you mean now re: mach int-e and my comment on "innards" and "even if philosophy is defined as tech the other tech sits on top of" :/
16:25:27 <kingoffrance> without those "innards" the rest of "microkernel" idea falls apart
16:42:12 <kingoffrance> that was the last i heard of hurd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcRlhsEezGY trying to find a new kernel statue to graft userland onto so that they might crash through the wall of death
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18:06:02 <zzo38> I have a book about holographic universe that I received recently. There is no mention of black holes, but it does mention quantum entanglement, wave/particle duality, David Bohm, placebo effects, near death experience, psychic powers, retropsychokinesis, time travel, holophonic sound, miracles, and some other stuff.
18:06:56 <zzo38> Unfortunately, they don't include any mathematics, and don't have many scientific terms, so that makes some of these thing difficult to know what it is or what exactly is being proposed here. They do have some medical terms I had to look up in the dictionary, though.
18:15:43 <zzo38> It is unclear what these things are, since some studies (including those mentioned in the book) have different and inconclusive results, and some have never been scientifically tested, although some of them have been tested, with varying results.
18:20:02 <zzo38> They also do not mention quantum gravity. It seem to me that gravity is different from other forces and you should need to figure out how to make the theories to work together, whether involving holograms or involving something else.
18:20:17 <zzo38> (I have my own ideas about quantum entanglement too, but which do not involve holograms.)
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18:44:14 <zzo38> I have also read elsewhere that someone said that nobody really understands quantum physics. Having so many of these different ideas, many of which do not match, I suppose it may be true.
18:45:00 <kmc> Richard Feynman said that anyone who claims to understand it obviously doesn't
18:45:09 <kmc> but perhaps some people who don't think they understand it actually do??
18:45:41 <kmc> I think it's possible to understand "quantum mechanics" as in the basic postulates regarding time evolution of systems described by wave functions and so forth
18:45:53 <kmc> but then when you start adding all this weird shit to actually describe our physical world in that mathematical framework
18:45:56 <kmc> then it gets really tricky
18:46:11 <kmc> zzo38: what's retropsychokinesis? sounds pretty esoteric
18:49:12 <int-e> Quantum physics is the closest I've seen to there being a god, with a great sense of humor. ;-) (The idea being that humans come up with some wacky formulas, and then the universe is adapted to behave according to those formulas, just because it's funny.)
18:49:39 <int-e> (I think Douglas Adams had similar ideas.)
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18:52:11 <zzo38> Retropsychokinesis is when something is affected in the past, such as if you make a recording of quantum random number generation and then play back later to someone to tries to use psychic powers to make one number appear more often than the others. (Although another article I read says that this does not actually affect the probabilities of the numbers at all, but nevertheless does have an effect on the data.)
18:52:11 <int-e> (There's a speech in "Life, the Universe, and Everything" where somebody explains that if the universe is known (both the ultimate question and the ultimate answer), then it's instantly replaced by something even more bizarre.)
18:53:40 <zzo38> But probably you are correct that the basic postulates regarding time evolution of systems described by wave functions and so forth can be understandable but the other stuff is more difficult to understand.
18:56:47 <kmc> I do feel sometimes like physics just gets more complicated the closer we look
18:56:50 <kmc> like god is fucking with us
18:58:00 <kmc> for some reason i'm reminded obliquely of https://qualiacomputing.com/2018/10/15/estimated-cost-of-the-dmt-machine-elves-prime-factorization-experiment/
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19:07:30 <kingoffrance> that actually makes a lot of sense int-e, certain beliefs are there are certain people always "one step ahead" everything is seasonal, etc. :)
19:08:06 <kingoffrance> once everyone reaches one "level" then they move on, theoretically trying to entice/program/manipulate/enlighten/elevate people to the next
19:08:18 <kingoffrance> so it is kind of a "people are always trapped in some era of evolution" thing
19:08:40 <kingoffrance> (and they are needed to "bridge" the worlds and translate things to our "understanding")
19:08:49 <kingoffrance> (and totally not trying to manipulate everyone)
19:10:32 <kingoffrance> so once "everyone" understand whatever they were supposed to learn in one "era" then they move onto the next round of programming people
19:11:37 <kingoffrance> so thats very similar, just they dont consider themselves part of the "everyone" group
19:13:03 <kingoffrance> and "understand the universe" is a "humanity collectively" thing
19:15:31 <kmc> the universe is driven to understand itself
19:15:38 <kmc> humans are just one manifestation of this desire
19:15:56 <kmc> we spontaneously generated out of hydrogen gas
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19:21:26 <kmc> i never met any of these salvia or DMT "entities"
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19:21:35 <kmc> not sure whether it's a good idea or a bad idea to go looking for them
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19:29:22 <kingoffrance> well, i think they just write books/etc. and strategically place them for people to find and if you read books from the wrong era, they probably dont like that, i.e. they would presumably want to destroy programming of prior "eras"
19:29:57 <kingoffrance> aka and/or you have to be programmed to see the "entities"
19:30:52 <kingoffrance> (and they say other things dont apply to them, because they are not part of the mass of whatever era)
19:31:46 <kingoffrance> aka i think it is not uncommon they claim only similar and/or competing entities can see the other entities
19:32:44 <kingoffrance> i guess i only interpret such thing 100% symbolically
19:33:04 <kingoffrance> and people familiar with symbolism might "make them come true/real"
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19:36:10 <kingoffrance> im interested in character sets for programming, so symbols i always try to find "meanings" of
19:37:43 <kingoffrance> lots of things i think are the "27 conspiracy" which IIRC was "people thought 27 meant something, so then they started seeing it everywhere"
19:38:24 <kingoffrance> i dont know a "cure" for that except "familiarize yourself with more conspiracies" and process of elimination
19:40:05 <kingoffrance> i might be too negative IMO "why do people start clubs/religions/cults/whatever?" because they want to take out/replace other ones
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19:42:31 <zzo38> I think that does not seem to be the only reason to start clubs/religions/cults/whatever, although sometimes it is.
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20:41:08 <kmc> weird al puts 27 in a lot of his songs
20:41:13 <kmc> I usually think of 23 as a more significant number
20:41:16 <kmc> because of discordianism
20:41:33 <kmc> I have a book about how the world will end in 2012
20:41:37 <kmc> i bought it for a laugh
20:41:39 <kmc> several years after 2012
20:46:42 <int-e> . o O ( 2nd edition, including a new chapter on why the world is ending so slowly )
20:48:02 <int-e> I'm reading a random scifi thing where the world does end in 2012, published in 2012. Everybody is dead. Well, almost everybody, because otherwise there wouldn't be a story. I'll probably regret reading it the moment I finish. :)
20:50:39 <int-e> Anyway it did mention the Mayan calendar. Is there any other reason why the world ended in 2012?
20:51:39 <kmc> i'm not sure
20:51:46 <kmc> i think people came up with all kinds of questionable reasons
20:52:39 <int-e> too bad they were wrong
20:53:20 <imode> the world did end, the rest of us didn't get the memo though.
20:54:13 <kmc> the world only just started last Tuesday
20:54:25 <kmc> everything you remember before that is a false memory implanted in you at creation
20:55:20 <int-e> Meh, it should've been Thursday.
20:55:24 <imode> they did a shit job at making it believable then.
20:56:24 <int-e> kmc: Time (and its progression) is one of the more mind-boggling conspiracies around.
20:58:58 <int-e> `learn Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
20:59:01 <HackEso> Learned 'time': Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
21:00:43 <int-e> . o O ( Can't have enough Douglas Adams quotes. )
21:30:41 <kingoffrance> there are lots symbolic reasons for ~2000 (perhaps based on mayan too, however indirectly/imprecisely or even "unintentionally") but yeah "the world" of such things i only interpret as symbolic "end of an era"
21:30:56 <kingoffrance> didnt stop my nick from going back to a previous era :)
21:31:31 <kingoffrance> at best IMO "when the symbology changes, then there are literal effects"
21:31:42 <kingoffrance> but any "the literal world is ending" doesnt make any sense to me
21:32:21 <kingoffrance> because if any of that is true, then it would be "transformed for a new era" IMO
21:33:09 <kingoffrance> so it would only "end" for people who want to stay in the prior era
21:33:23 <kingoffrance> and since it was all based on "symbiology" they can just cling to their symbols IMO
21:33:47 <kingoffrance> i.e. they dont have to go along with the "new definitions"
21:35:04 <kingoffrance> my nick hasnt been struck by lightning :/ just crash through the "death wall" like indiana jones (ropes/knots == trinity i believe, symbology all over that clip i linked)
21:35:21 <kingoffrance> if indiana jones can escape the millenial pyramid, clearly there are ways out
21:36:44 <kingoffrance> indiana jones escaped "1000 years" of the millenium, thats good enough for me :)
21:36:54 <int-e> I don't think I follow. I'm sure I don't want to follow either.
21:45:37 <zzo38> I found a PostScript program which makes a second version of a Discordian deck, and it includes a subroutine for writing Mayan numbers.
21:52:24 <imode> crazy is in full force, i see.
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21:54:35 <int-e> fungot should chime in
21:54:35 <fungot> int-e: which was very annoying problem which causes inability to access ash without a crash ( and thus often spelled) " chitlins".
21:56:53 <kingoffrance> thats why i stay away from "advent of code" :/ too millenial for me :/
22:03:24 <kingoffrance> same reason i dont trust unicode; i dont trust anyone trying to "merge" everything
22:04:37 <imode> tell us how you really feel.
22:09:33 <zzo38> I don't like Unicode either; I think it is a mess. One character set isn't going to be good for all purposes.
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22:25:05 <kingoffrance> snakes == forked tongue, alchemical merging, hermes/prometheus/etc. :/ thus is unicode to me :/
22:29:46 <zzo38> I do not quite understand your point
22:45:01 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69340&oldid=69098 * Lebster * (+204) /* Examples */
22:47:04 <kingoffrance> i dont accept their new definitions of "charset" i stick with the prior one :)
22:47:17 <kingoffrance> IMO they had to redefine things to match the new system
22:47:32 <kingoffrance> so "speaking out of both sides of their mouth" IMO
22:50:26 <kingoffrance> ive had to many debates with ppl, i will spare you the details, but left me unconvinced they are doing anything but playing word games
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22:58:42 <imode> if you have a competing standard, and you think it's objectively better, then post it and advocate for its adoption.
23:00:21 <kingoffrance> i dont, i just am experimenting; that is the whole problem: i have different goals
23:00:37 <kingoffrance> theirs seems to be "there is no plaintext, only encodings"
23:00:54 <kingoffrance> to me, that is up to each os/cpu/whatever to decide what is the "native encoding" == plaintext (in that realm)
23:01:22 <kingoffrance> my "plaintext" == native tongue of whatever speaker/reader/listener
23:02:03 <kingoffrance> so we are oppositely focussed, coming from different directions
23:02:05 <imode> that's nice. the rest of us have to share information.
23:02:40 <imode> and, there is no "plaintext": you're still interpreting numbers as glyphs or partial glyphs.
23:03:06 <kingoffrance> yes and no; charsets dont necessarily mean "glyphs" IMO; headless servers exist, for example
23:03:17 <kingoffrance> they can still process such data without displaying anywhere
23:03:41 <imode> a glyph does not have to be displayed to mean something in an encoding.
23:05:20 <zzo38> I think that one character set isn't going to be good for all purposes, so I do not have a competing standard, although I do have some which are specific to some purposes, and are not meant for all purposes.
23:06:04 <kingoffrance> its no different IMO than countries have some "native" language or not, or a set of languages they e.g. print laws in
23:06:09 <imode> unicode isn't the best. better than what we have.
23:06:25 <kingoffrance> if in "real world' i ever had to do i18n stuff, i may feel different :)
23:06:25 <imode> a set of mutually incompatible encodings.
23:06:43 <kingoffrance> but for "hobby" stuff, it makes little sense to me
23:06:58 <imode> yeah if you're not doing anything serious, why bother trying.
23:07:22 <kingoffrance> well i just want my metaphorical france, not the metaphorical world :)
23:07:40 <kingoffrance> what does it profit a character set to gain the world and lose themself?
23:08:36 <kingoffrance> if anyone someday wants to "translate" my stuff, they will have ample means, i am not locking such out
23:08:57 <imode> crazy is in full force.
23:09:13 <HackEso> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
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23:24:48 <imode> how would Thue's usability change if you added "nonlocal" matches? i.e for each rule, you have multiple substrings on the left and right, and only when all substrings on the left are present, they're replaced with the corresponding substrings on the right.
23:25:37 <imode> "foo:bar, baz:quux;" for example. the replacements only happen when both `foo` and `baz` are present in the input string.
23:27:11 <imode> but if they are, then `foo` gets replaced with `bar`, and `baz` gets replaced with `quux`.
23:58:42 <kingoffrance> im sure unicode is great for multinational enterprises, i dont think it scales to individuals
00:00:08 <kingoffrance> if it doesnt solve any problem i have, im sorry that makes me "crazy"
00:00:28 <kingoffrance> i am "crazy" to expect real solutions to real problems
00:01:07 <imode> boy howdy, you sure proved me wrong, with all those multinational enterprises not solving real problems and such.
00:01:17 <imode> everybody's playing games except for you, I'm sure.
00:01:50 <kingoffrance> they solve enterprise problems, i can focus on individuals, boy howdy
00:02:22 <imode> you mean the individuals you don't interact with.
00:02:34 <imode> because of incompatible encodings.
00:03:29 <kingoffrance> well, either people exist to serve multinationals or multinationals exist to serve people; i am in the latter camp
00:03:53 <imode> what the fuck does that have to do with an encoding standard.
00:04:10 <imode> are you a conspiracy theorist. or have some kind of paranoid delusion at the intent of unicode.
00:04:39 <imode> like why is this the hill you die on.
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00:07:03 <zzo38> I do not expect that has anything to do with the encoding, although I do think that Unicode is too messy.
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00:38:45 <kingoffrance> its not my job to come up with standards for your business enterprises imode
00:41:55 <imode> figuring out what you're talking about has now become unfun.
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00:58:27 <Rerednaw> Do someone know where to go if we want to change a pseudo on the wiki?
01:00:02 <fizzie> Does that mean changing a username, or something completely different?
01:01:00 <Rerednaw> I would like to revive one of my old creations
01:01:46 <zzo38> You should still be able to edit the old files regardless of the username, though.
01:02:16 <Rerednaw> But my username is linked to a past which i'm no longer proud of
01:02:44 <Rerednaw> So I try to do that at the same time
01:03:49 <kmc> 16:00 < kingoffrance> if it doesnt solve any problem i have, im sorry that makes me "crazy"
01:03:56 <kmc> i mean if you only read/write english
01:04:04 <kmc> and without any fancy punctuation or math characters or anything
01:04:07 <kmc> then ASCII is fine
01:04:16 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster/sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69341 * Lebster * (+1) Created page with "."
01:04:17 <kmc> many people in the world — most in fact — have a daily need to use characters that aren't in ASCII
01:05:01 <kmc> i don't think you can blame multinational corporations for the fact that not everyone speaks english
01:05:05 <kmc> i'm sure they'd rather that were the case :P
01:05:06 <fizzie> Rerednaw: Is that a past on the wiki, or past somewhere else? Because changing the username with the Renameuser extension will also update page histories and everything.
01:05:09 <kmc> and yes Unicode has a lot of complexity, and some of it is due to unfortunate historical reasons
01:05:10 <fizzie> Rerednaw: I guess, what I'm trying to ask is, what specifically would you be wanting to do regarding usernames on the wiki.
01:05:30 <kmc> but a lot of it is due to the fact that Unicode wants to be truly universal
01:05:39 <kmc> which means one system that solves (as close as possible) *everyone's* problems
01:05:43 <kmc> and that is valuable because
01:05:51 <kmc> we want to read documents written by others
01:06:02 <kmc> it's very convenient for the world to standardize on one way of representing text
01:06:12 <zzo38> The key to failure is trying to please everyone.
01:06:12 <kmc> even if that one way is necessarily pretty complicated
01:06:14 <Rerednaw> My old pseudo (BoutonIA) is linked to other activities I've done on Internet
01:06:18 <kmc> it's certainly a lot better than the old way
01:06:35 <Rerednaw> So I wold like to change the whole pseudo
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01:09:56 <fizzie> Rerednaw: In that case, I guess Renameuser is right for you. But it's restricted to wiki admins, and I may not even have enabled it. Could you leave a comment on, say, https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Fizzie using that existing account stating what you want it to be renamed to, just to prove that you have control over it?
01:10:52 <fizzie> Or using the "Email this user" function from the wiki if you don't want it public, I think that also shows which user sent the message.
01:11:27 <Rerednaw> Okay I'll do it, thanks for the help!
01:19:54 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69342&oldid=69294 * Lebster * (-4)
01:21:32 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69343&oldid=69340 * Lebster * (-26) updated header scale
01:22:36 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69344&oldid=69119 * Lebster * (-26) updated header scale
01:22:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:Fizzie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69345&oldid=66258 * BoutonIA * (+265)
01:22:53 <esowiki> [[!!Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69346&oldid=69318 * Lebster * (-4)
01:23:09 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69347&oldid=69328 * Lebster * (-4) updated header scales
01:23:16 <esowiki> [[User talk:Fizzie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69348&oldid=69345 * BoutonIA * (-2) /* Request to change my username */ Change to big title
01:23:34 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69349&oldid=69347 * Lebster * (+3) grammar
01:24:53 <esowiki> [[User:BoutonIA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69350&oldid=56308 * BoutonIA * (-107)
01:26:35 <fizzie> Rerednaw: I'll give it a go. It may or may not cause you to log out. (MediaWiki is a mystery.)
01:27:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Fizzie * moved [[User:BoutonIA]] to [[User:Rerednaw]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "[[User:BoutonIA|BoutonIA]]" to "[[User:Rerednaw|Rerednaw]]"
01:27:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/renameuser]] renameuser * Fizzie * Fizzie renamed user [[User:BoutonIA]] (49 edits) to [[User:Rerednaw]]: Requested by the user.
01:27:48 <Rerednaw> I verified, it works perfectly!
01:28:15 <fizzie> It doesn't update links, so you may want to edit those on CopyPasta Language and BSoD.
01:29:13 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69352&oldid=66454 * Rerednaw * (+0) Change of username
01:31:51 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69353&oldid=69352 * Rerednaw * (-101) Delete the old deadlike, since I have no longer the files
01:32:32 <esowiki> [[BSoD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69354&oldid=56309 * Rerednaw * (+0) Change of password
01:33:25 <esowiki> [[BSoD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69355&oldid=69354 * Rerednaw * (-126) Delete the old deadlike, since I have no longer the files
01:35:35 <esowiki> [[LSCEF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69356 * Lebster * (+2302) created page
01:36:16 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69357&oldid=69342 * Lebster * (+30) +LSCEF
01:38:39 <esowiki> [[LSCEF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69358&oldid=69356 * Lebster * (+39) encodings for ` &
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02:15:15 <kingoffrance> i didnt mean to be rude, but i dont think i am wrong to imply at least utf8 was commercially-inspired https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/utf-8-history.txt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X/Open look at the list of organizations: all giants, not exactly "hobbyist" target audience
02:15:35 <kingoffrance> and the unix trademark thing :/ not something i am shooting for
02:16:40 <kingoffrance> i dont think i am stretching to assume they designed something to fit their needs, not mine
02:18:35 <kingoffrance> and how many of these unix vendors are gone, or "irrelevant" to most people in the "unix" space
02:21:36 <kingoffrance> how many non-commercial orgs do you see on those pages?
02:31:13 <kmc> kingoffrance: i'm very curious to hear about how you made your own computer without using anything produced by a corporation
02:31:30 <int-e> @tell imode Re: usability of Tue with nonlocal matches -- you could conveniently implement multi-tape TMs then, which I believe is quite a boost in convenience.
02:31:41 <int-e> @tell imode I mean Thue of course.
02:32:37 <kmc> anyway it's great for you if you don't have to solve any of the complicated problems that unicode solves
02:32:42 <kmc> i'm sincerely happy for you
02:32:45 <int-e> `learn Kingoffrance is what happens when you cross zzo38 with a conspiracy theorist.
02:32:48 <HackEso> Learned 'kingoffrance': Kingoffrance is what happens when you cross zzo38 with a conspiracy theorist.
02:33:21 <int-e> (Or is that too unfair to zzo38...)
02:34:33 <kmc> it seems kind of like complaining that pet stores exist because you don't own a dog so you have no use for them
02:35:22 <int-e> kingoffrance: 1) You don't matter. 2) Yes, big corporations are not out to solve your problems. 3) Citing UTF-8 as an example for that is ridiculous. 4) No I don't want to discuss any of this.
02:43:25 <zzo38> int-e: It doesn't matter if it is unfair to me or not, I think.
02:46:42 <int-e> zzo38: Well I'm usually aiming for a tease, not for an outright offense... so if I've crossed that line the entry should be deleted.
02:48:19 <zzo38> Well, I like freedom of speech, so I think that it is OK how it is.
03:03:58 <kingoffrance> int-e : sure, re: 2) but i was noting the hypocrisy of somehow i am supposed to solve theirs :/ for free :/ just cuz :/
03:11:11 <kmc> there are plenty of reasons to be upset at big corporations; UTF-8 is not one of them
03:11:20 <kmc> especially since you haven't given a single specific thing you dislike about it
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03:29:05 <imode> ASCII was created by big private organizations.
03:29:39 <imode> int-e: figured as much. suddenly orchestrating things with multiple cursors becomes so much easier.
03:40:15 <kingoffrance> i am, however, quite flattered that people think i simultaneously dont matter and should write a competing standard for commercial orgs to follow; it makes me feel very quantum
03:41:01 <imode> I don't think you should write a competing standard. I think you should think before you speak about the suitability of a standard to your limited prospects.
03:41:27 <zzo38> How to do disk image swapping in DOSBOX?
03:41:35 <imode> on the "you don't matter", yeah, you don't. none of us here have any influence over standards adoption.
03:42:20 <imode> zzo38: I believe CTRL+F4?
03:42:30 <imode> see https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/IMGMOUNT
03:43:42 <zzo38> It says using multiple files is only supported for cue/iso images, but I am trying to mount a floppy disk image
03:47:30 <imode> looks like you can do something with the `boot` command, but yeah, it's not supported in the main builds of DOSBox..
03:53:28 <zzo38> I will try to just copy the files from the disk images all into one directory and see if that works.
03:54:33 <int-e> imode: could it have something to do with CD-ROMs being read-only...
03:55:03 <imode> more than likely, yeah. partial writes are a bitch.
03:58:17 <zzo38> Unfortunately, that didn't work. It requires either the original disk or a copy onto the same type of disk; it won't work if the installation files are in the hard drive, even if SUBST is used.
03:58:19 <int-e> When was the last time you've heard the term "webcast"?
04:11:22 <kingoffrance> its like a steve jobs thing (person a) im not sure one-size-fits all (person b) come up with a new one-size-fits-all standard then (person a) that's not what i said (person b) i'm sorry, did i act like you matter? i meant to say you don't matter
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06:01:43 <esowiki> [[User talk:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69359&oldid=68517 * JonoCode9374 * (+173) /* Howdy! */ new section
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08:03:51 <kingoffrance> the only thing i can say is commercial stuff is "the other type of esoteric" by its very nature, that type of law always has been thus, and i dont wish to infect my work with their timeframes as much as possible; if they somehow changed their definition of "time" maybe we would have more common ground
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10:48:26 <esowiki> [[Nix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69360&oldid=47213 * IFcoltransG * (+103) Categories
10:49:57 <esowiki> [[Nix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69361&oldid=69360 * IFcoltransG * (+10) Fixed 2d category
10:55:46 <esowiki> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69362&oldid=68970 * IFcoltransG * (+9) Added {{stub}}
10:59:28 <esowiki> [[And then]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69363&oldid=66523 * IFcoltransG * (+9) Removed stub tag, replaced with joke tag. Seems like a complete description of the lang; nothing else need be said.
11:13:21 <esowiki> [[QUOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69364&oldid=30825 * IFcoltransG * (+296)
11:16:20 <esowiki> [[QUOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69365&oldid=69364 * IFcoltransG * (-79) Found more info
11:29:06 <esowiki> [[QIRAML]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69366 * IFcoltransG * (+336) Created page with "{{stub}} '''QIRAML''', pronounced similar to "caramel", stands for ''QIRAML Isn't Really A Markup Language''. The language is the successor to [[QUOTE]], and is used to prepro..."
11:39:25 <esowiki> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69367&oldid=65160 * IFcoltransG * (+8) Made things a link solely so I could click them right now
11:39:53 <esowiki> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69368&oldid=69367 * IFcoltransG * (-18) Reformatted links
11:43:02 <esowiki> [[Decision tree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69369&oldid=44782 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Added this to one of my favourite categories. (No, not stubs!)
11:47:48 <esowiki> [[Treeng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69370&oldid=67744 * IFcoltransG * (+67) Added a clarification
11:48:33 <esowiki> [[Treeng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69371&oldid=69370 * IFcoltransG * (+4) Added link to [[graph]]
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12:15:05 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69372&oldid=68968 * IFcoltransG * (+12) Added links
12:27:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69373&oldid=67242 * IFcoltransG * (+229)
12:34:49 <esowiki> [[ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69374&oldid=45834 * IFcoltransG * (+42) Fixed typos
12:35:33 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69375&oldid=69374 * IFcoltransG * (+34) Added a category
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12:37:10 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69376&oldid=69375 * IFcoltransG * (+25) /* Commands */ Formatted the rest of the escape sequences
12:37:33 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69377&oldid=69376 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Fixed formatting
12:56:37 <esowiki> [[User talk:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69378&oldid=69359 * Lebster * (+102) /* Howdy! */
13:10:17 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69379&oldid=69349 * Lebster * (-333)
13:11:54 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69380&oldid=69379 * Lebster * (+69)
13:26:29 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69381&oldid=69290 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35)
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14:45:25 <esowiki> [[HaltJS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69383 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+687) Created page with "'''HaltJS''' is a language created by [[User:Pythonshelldebugwindow]]. ==Syntax== HaltJS has a syntax identical to that of JavaScript, with one major limitation: whenever the..."
14:45:43 <esowiki> [[HaltJS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69384&oldid=69383 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2)
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18:47:59 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69385&oldid=69343 * Lebster * (+215) added "Print the Fibonacci Sequence"
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20:14:32 <kingoffrance> my dillema is i come from a land before open source and free software were "fused"; so i get along fine with 1) people not wanting to fuse with gpl (bsd) 2) gpl people (who arent zealots) i only have problems with commercial people trying to "fuse" into my non-commercialness, which always fails :/
20:14:39 <kingoffrance> or i come from a "freenode" before thus took place
20:14:58 <kingoffrance> i think that is the root of all my disagreements with people
20:15:27 <rain1> hello kingoffrance
20:15:58 <zzo38> Either way (GPL or BSD) it is still free software and open source software. However, I just dislike copyright in general, so I release everything to public domain
20:21:37 <kmc> or you can do CC0, which is like public domain but with a bunch of extra words to make it like public domain even in places where "public domain" isn't a thing
20:22:33 <zzo38> Another variant I have seen is
20:22:43 <rain1> have yo thought about quantum computing
20:23:20 <zzo38> Another variant I have seen is dual licensing by MIT license and CC0. I have also seen MIT license with an extra clause saying any Discordian pope may grant themself a license to use WTFPL.
20:25:54 <kmc> that one is just designed to annoy lawyers while putting hackers at ease
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20:41:01 <kingoffrance> i dont think people realize the genuis of such; its like parody of a parody of a parody in a sense; i cant explain here, but ...they did their homework
20:48:03 <kingoffrance> i consider such genius feats of "practical reverse engineering"
20:48:53 <j4cbo> sqlite does something similar
20:50:22 <j4cbo> https://www.hwaci.com/cgi-bin/license-step1
20:58:07 <imode> the technique is known as taking the piss.
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21:45:05 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69386&oldid=69344 * JonoCode9374 * (+1049) /* Online */
21:47:09 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69387&oldid=69194 * Rerednaw * (+1) /* CopyPasta Language */ Missing an exclamation point
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22:14:19 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69388&oldid=69353 * Rerednaw * (+0) Change a bit the Hello, World
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23:43:35 <imode> I wonder how fast you can make Thue. wonder if you can make it compete with C.
23:44:18 <imode> like, what's the theoretical limit here that doesn't involve bringing in multiprocessing.
23:45:12 <imode> you're not gonna outshoot something that compiles down to machine code, but you could probably hit a sweet spot like Forths do.
23:50:15 <zzo38> Can you convert a JPEG file into another format and then reencode it as JPEG with the same settings without making it more lossy if the picture hasn't changed and the original JPEG file is lost?
23:53:40 <imode> that's a question that should be answered by attempting it tbh. I wanna say no.
23:54:20 <imode> JPEG is lossy, and if you do something like JPEG <-> PNG <-> JPEG, it's a form of generational noise.
23:54:41 <imode> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_loss
23:56:34 <zzo38> But shouldn't there be some way of making an encoder that supports doing it without further loss (as long as the colour space and quantization tables match the original)?
23:58:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69389&oldid=69373 * IFcoltransG * (+480) /* Binary trees in single commands */ new section
23:58:28 <esowiki> [[ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69390&oldid=69377 * IFcoltransG * (+747) /* Commands */ Added commands for binary trees, general trees, directed graphs and undirected graphs.
23:58:53 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69391&oldid=69390 * IFcoltransG * (+3) Fixed formatting of table
23:59:02 <imode> so you're saying if you have a JPEG, you convert it to a PNG, you want to transcode that back into a JPEG without any loss of data?
23:59:51 <zzo38> imode: Yes; assume that I know what colour space and quantization tables were used in the original JPEG file (since they may need to match in order to allow it to be reencoded without any further loss)
00:00:59 <zzo38> Yes, but how exactly to do such a thing?
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00:04:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69392&oldid=69389 * IFcoltransG * (+379) /* Ambiguity in the specification with composite types */ new section
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00:37:21 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69393&oldid=69391 * IFcoltransG * (+25) Added stack-based category
00:48:31 <esowiki> [[Photon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69394&oldid=66650 * IFcoltransG * (+40) Categorised
00:51:12 <esowiki> [[Minimalist's Markup]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69395&oldid=46760 * IFcoltransG * (+31) Added ML category
00:59:09 <esowiki> [[ABC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69396&oldid=66247 * IFcoltransG * (+16) Added extra disambiguation link
01:20:11 <esowiki> [[Fm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69397&oldid=63179 * IFcoltransG * (+35) Added bf derivatives category
01:21:00 <esowiki> [[Wang program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69398&oldid=65274 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Added link to Fm
01:36:21 <kingoffrance> long ago, in a galaxy far away, one of the selling points of free sofware and open source etc. was developers would gravitate towards projects they want to work on and/or scratch their own itches, this seems to have disappeared
01:43:02 <imode> right, because people don't do that anymore.
01:43:25 <imode> we all just program because managers tell us to.
01:46:21 <zzo38> Actually, people still do write programs they want to write, in their own time (when you are not at work).
01:46:53 <imode> I realize that my messages are missing an /s.
01:48:24 <zzo38> I think your message is spelled correctly (as far as I can tell).
01:49:35 <imode> people commonly annotate their messages with '/s' to indicate that the contents are sarcastic.
01:49:41 <imode> because text doesn't convey sarcasm.
02:00:47 <kingoffrance> i just mean it used to be a good thing to scratch your own itches
02:00:55 <kingoffrance> you didnt get a million "why arent you doing it MYYYYYY way"
02:07:53 <zzo38> People still write their own programs though (even if some people don't like it, then they can use different software), but some protocols/formats are made too complicated/messy.
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02:08:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:LSCEF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69399 * IFcoltransG * (+263) /* ? */ new section
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02:15:21 <kingoffrance> thats the problem with telling people "you dont matter" ultimately they wipe themselves and everyone else out, since noone ultimately matters
02:16:16 <kingoffrance> its a disguised nihilism masquerading as benevolence IMO
02:24:13 <imode> if you spent half the time thinking about what you say before saying it, maybe you would've realized that that's still the case.
02:24:45 <imode> what're some projects you've worked on? what have you contributed to the FOSS ecosystem?
02:24:53 <imode> you seem so personally invested in it.
02:25:09 <imode> not that one shouldn't have personal investment, that's what FOSS is built off of.
02:25:25 <imode> just that there seems to be something pissing you off to the point of yelling at clouds.
02:26:41 <esowiki> [[Postfix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69400&oldid=67966 * IFcoltransG * (+29) Added reference to RPN
02:27:18 <esowiki> [[Prefix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69401&oldid=67590 * IFcoltransG * (+21) Added reference to Polish notation
02:28:33 <esowiki> [[Prefix notation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69402&oldid=69401 * IFcoltransG * (+11) Grammar adjustment and stub template
02:31:34 <esowiki> [[ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69403&oldid=69393 * IFcoltransG * (+103) Referred to RPN and plethora of bases
02:34:54 <esowiki> [[Spl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69404&oldid=40949 * IFcoltransG * (+52) Added Shakespeare to the mini disambiguation
02:35:13 <esowiki> [[Spl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69405&oldid=69404 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Forgot full stop
02:36:31 <zzo38> kingoffrance: But nihilism is not necessarily malevolent.
02:38:16 <esowiki> [[SPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69406&oldid=37332 * IFcoltransG * (+106) Added a short disambig
02:39:00 <esowiki> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69407&oldid=46421 * IFcoltransG * (+100) Added a short disambig
02:44:09 <esowiki> [[Arity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69408&oldid=67964 * IFcoltransG * (+1) /* Practical uses */ Pluralised for grammar
02:55:47 <esowiki> [[Lisp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69409&oldid=68961 * IFcoltransG * (+4) Added a link
02:59:18 <esowiki> [[FORTH]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69410 * IFcoltransG * (+19) Redirected page to [[Forth]]
02:59:54 <esowiki> [[Forth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69411&oldid=67551 * IFcoltransG * (+28) Added metalanguages category
03:00:15 <esowiki> [[Forth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69412&oldid=69411 * IFcoltransG * (+0) Fixed my spelling mistake
03:01:38 <esowiki> [[Arity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69413&oldid=69408 * IFcoltransG * (+5) /* Dynamic arity */ Linked Python to Python
03:59:59 <kingoffrance> "you don't matter" is a new type of "FUD" i guess :/
04:00:51 <imode> onto ignore you go.
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04:37:52 <int-e> <imode> I wonder how fast you can make Thue. <-- I'm afraid that's in "sufficiently smart compiler" territory; if you manage to unravel enough of the encodings you can be arbitrarily fast, but you'll be solving instances of undecidable problems at all times.
04:40:38 <imode> int-e: not sure I follow, can you explain further?
04:41:35 <int-e> Of course there's a lot you can do to make the rewriting engine faster... indexing (hashing) substrings, or, probably more fruitfully, analysing how right-hand sides overlap with left-hand sides to track redex creation, a good data structure for the strings themselves... but competing with C will be a huge stretch.
04:42:04 <int-e> imode: Imagine somebody has a C to Thue compiler. The resulting program(s) can be made as fast as the C program in principle...
04:42:29 <imode> how would that even work?..
04:42:34 <int-e> ...by reversing the compiler's operation.
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04:44:45 <imode> A C to Thue compiler would be trying to simulate things like variables, registers, etc.. mm.
04:45:15 <imode> thue to C would be guessing the things that the rules encode.
04:46:44 <int-e> Yes. Clearly this is hopeless without knowing what the compiler does, and likely still very hard if you have the compiler available.
04:46:51 <imode> making the rewriting engine faster seems to be a reasonable prospect.
04:47:28 <int-e> imode: Yeah I replied to the wrong part of your message really. My doubts are really connected to competing with C.
04:49:08 <imode> same. it'll have to remain interpreted, because there's nothing to "compile" to C: you'll end up with a rewrite engine that has hardcoded rules instead of ones loaded from a file.
04:49:26 <imode> unless you can guess the semantics of the rules and "derive" the thing they're designed to implement, like a multi-tape TM + states.
04:50:29 <imode> at that point you haven't "compiled Thue to C", you've taken an encoding of something in Thue and provided the equivalent encoding in C. arbitrary rules aren't possible.
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07:48:43 <int-e> fungot: will it finish?
07:48:43 <fungot> int-e: but i need to rest, i'm all ears. i don't have anything else to do it
09:12:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69414&oldid=68783 * CarlosLuna * (+395) Answering the "adder" question.
10:27:10 <esowiki> [[Bubbles]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69415&oldid=68859 * IFcoltransG * (-12) Unnecessary emboldening brought to my attention
10:30:50 <esowiki> [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69416&oldid=69414 * CarlosLuna * (+730) Commenting on Substraction program.
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14:08:54 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/How to write quines]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69419 * Hakerh400 * (+36564) New article: How to write quines
14:09:56 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69420&oldid=68855 * Hakerh400 * (+63) New article
14:10:08 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69421&oldid=69420 * Hakerh400 * (+6)
14:12:09 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69422&oldid=69226 * Elmusfire * (+359) /* Introductions */
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14:55:10 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/How to write quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69423&oldid=69419 * Hakerh400 * (+16)
14:56:14 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400/How to write quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69424&oldid=69423 * Hakerh400 * (-1)
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16:53:19 <arseniiv> hm, a thought on models of programming vs. models of computation: could one say that quines are meaningful for the first and meaningless for the second?
16:54:20 <arseniiv> e. g. take a Minsky machine. To write a quine machine, we first need to conjure an encoding of machines, so the machine itself can’t be thought of as quining or not quining, it depends on an encoding
16:55:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:UISFDS Space subdivision.png]]": UISFDS - Example of a space subdivision
16:55:36 <arseniiv> and that is the distinction between this model and that model IIRC
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18:12:17 <esowiki> [[COW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69427&oldid=59960 * SnoringFrog * (+637) Adding a more optimized Hello, World! program
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18:23:12 <j-bot> b_jonas: |domain error
18:27:07 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69428&oldid=69387 * SnoringFrog * (+547) Adding COW
18:36:18 <b_jonas> I think we can remove the IOCCC news from the channel topic now
18:36:52 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Welcome to the international center for esoteric programming library design, development, and deployment! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/.
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18:42:38 <int-e> fungot: When will I learn to add checkpointing to my long-running programs?
18:42:38 <fungot> int-e: you are eaten by a grue") in scheme?' there fnord, too
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20:07:16 <fizzie> fungot: You're long-running, right? Do you have checkpoints?
20:07:16 <fungot> fizzie: at least, there are five processes excluding the main one
20:07:34 <fizzie> Huh, sounds like it's a more complicated system than I thought.
20:07:56 <fizzie> fungot: Have you been refactoring yourself again? I'm pretty sure there was just one process when I wrote it.
20:29:20 <b_jonas> fizzie: he's stateless so he doesn't need them. he can just restart from a fresh random seed instead of continuing the same one from a checkpoint.
20:30:40 <kingoffrance> you can permaban me from this channel. to answer imode "what is pissing me off" if someone'd like to relay, its not the software, its the business people/incorporations/banks/schools/churches have adoped a "state religion" i dont subscribe to; i try to avoid contracting with treasonous psycopathic luciferians http://www.iapsop.com/archive/materials/wing_lessons/hjg/1951__frater_viii___the_seals_were_broken.pdf https://archive.org/
20:30:40 <kingoffrance> details/fundamentallaws00ordegoog in millenial "america/england" thats near impossible, they consider it 'destiny' and "freedom of religion" a joke; if you know your roman civil law, this is every incorporation's new "religion"; i draw a line at companies brainwashing employees and treason; adios
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20:41:00 <imode> that guy was quite the nut.
20:49:26 <int-e> `forget kingoffrance
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22:21:45 <b_jonas> yes, the webpage claims so
22:21:58 <HackEso> The IOCCC is the Industrial Ordovician COBOL Conference Circuit. Not to be confused with OIC. See also ioccclist.
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02:58:26 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69429&oldid=69422 * Poiu45 * (+180) /* Introductions */
02:58:38 <esowiki> [[Unary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69430&oldid=58695 * Poiu45 * (-96) Updated quine info
03:00:28 <esowiki> [[Talk:Unary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69431&oldid=58693 * Poiu45 * (+251) /* Quine */
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12:09:57 <esowiki> [[!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69433 * PersonMan * (+7) Created page with "== ! =="
12:11:02 <esowiki> [[!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69434&oldid=69433 * PersonMan * (+57) /* ! */
12:11:35 <esowiki> [[!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69435&oldid=69434 * PersonMan * (+10) /* ! */
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12:32:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69442 * PersonMan * (+90) Created page with "--~~~~"
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16:07:20 <arseniiv> > let z (x:xs) = x : z ([0..x-1] ++ xs) in z [0..]
16:07:23 <lambdabot> [0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,4,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,5,0,1,0,2,0,1...
16:07:44 <arseniiv> I think this variant wasn’t mentioned yet?
16:10:07 <wib_jonas> I dunno, we listed implementations for those like weeks ago
16:12:12 <wib_jonas> https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-11-24.html#lVl
16:17:26 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sxakalo * New user account
16:21:00 <arseniiv> wib_jonas: yeah I even initiated that one :D
16:21:31 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69460&oldid=69432 * Sxakalo * (+296) /* Introductions */
16:21:53 <arseniiv> I think this version is not obviously isomorphic to those ones
16:25:29 <arseniiv> I’ll try to reformulate this so it’d use the complement of the list so we hopefully wouldn’t need (++)
16:30:09 <arseniiv> hm, wait ([0..a] ++ constant) is perfectly nice
16:35:59 <int-e> https://jacquesmattheij.com/warpdeck/WarpDeck-14.png . o O ( What exactly happens after year 2? )
16:36:06 <int-e> From https://jacquesmattheij.com/anatomy-of-a-scam/
16:40:46 * arseniiv tried to come up with a pun about a step function stepping on that graph and failed
16:43:16 <int-e> https://jacquesmattheij.com/warpdeck/WarpDeck-20.png is also ridiculous. It is a forecast. It goes down at some points, with *no* explanation why.
16:44:40 <int-e> (It's not even the same month each time. So not a seasonal effect.)
16:47:03 <int-e> But at least the revenues are exactly proportional to the number of posts. https://jacquesmattheij.com/warpdeck/WarpDeck-21.png
16:48:57 <esowiki> [[$ $]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69461&oldid=69009 * Sxakalo * (+157)
16:49:19 <arseniiv> inverted version, finally, and oh so long (dtb = dropTillBreak):
16:49:19 <arseniiv> > let { dtb x (y:xs) | x == y = dtb (x+1) xs ; dtb x xs = (x, x:xs) ; z xs = (let (x, xs') = dtb 0 xs in x : z xs') } in z []
16:49:22 <lambdabot> [0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,4,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,5,0,1,0,2,0,1...
16:54:10 <int-e> hmm that looks too complicated.
16:54:30 <int-e> But I do like the previous version... reminds me of binary counting in brainfuck.
16:54:50 <arseniiv> > let { d x (y:xs) | x == y = d (x+1) xs ; d x xs = x : d 0 (x:xs) } in take 50 $ d 0 []
16:54:53 <lambdabot> [0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,4,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,5,0,1,0,2,0,1...
16:55:06 <arseniiv> int-e: yes, I like the “positive” version more too
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16:56:16 <arseniiv> more so that (++) behaves good there
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17:10:51 <int-e> `bf8 +++++++++[[>+>+<<-]++++++[>++++++++<-]>->-]<.
17:10:52 <HackEso> bf8? No such file or directory
17:10:56 <int-e> `bf +++++++++[[>+>+<<-]++++++[>++++++++<-]>->-]<.
17:11:08 <int-e> `bf +++++++++[[>+>+<<-]++++++[>++++++++<-]>->-]<[.>+>>[->>]<<[<<]<]
17:11:09 <HackEso> 010201030102010401020103010201050102010301020104010201030102010601020103010201040102010301020105010201030102010401020103010201070102010301020104010201030102010501020103010201040102010301020106010201030102010401020103010201050102010301020104010201030102010801020103010201040102010301020105010201030102010401020103010201060102010301020104010201030102010501020103010201040102010301020107010201030102010401020103010201050102010301020104010201030102010
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18:05:05 <esowiki> [[User:Sxakalo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69462 * Sxakalo * (+164) Created page with "Welcome to my page! I hope to add a bunch of stuff here! == Implemented == * [[$_$]] ** I created an implementation in perl [https://github.com/Sxakalo/SUS here]"
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00:38:56 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69463&oldid=69388 * Rerednaw * (+1565) Version Ctrl+V added
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03:03:21 <Soni> a sufficiently advanced DAW is indistinguishable from a sufficiently advanced Lisp IDE
03:03:42 <Soni> lisp has "streams" (lists), internal and external routing (parameters/arguments, I/O), notes and samples (constants). they're basically equivalent!
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06:18:04 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69464&oldid=69385 * Lebster * (+118) /* Examples */
06:40:30 <esowiki> [[User:Elronnd/brainfcuk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69465&oldid=54737 * Elronnd * (+55) Fix formatting, typos
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10:39:26 <wib_jonas> fungot, do you grow grapes or make wine?
10:39:27 <fungot> wib_jonas: fish sticks, cheez whiz, gin fizz, show biz!! bork bork bork!
10:40:28 <wib_jonas> fungot: you are a cheesemaker and fisherman then?
10:40:29 <fungot> wib_jonas: i thought lisp was interesting. :) ok, i'm just tired of typing all that crap waste area jumping harder
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17:15:37 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69466&oldid=69463 * Rerednaw * (-25) /* Wannabe dice */ Simplified
17:16:38 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69467&oldid=69466 * Rerednaw * (+5) /* Wannabe dice */ Rectification
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19:52:59 <arseniiv> int-e: do you know yawns are contagious? *yawn*
19:54:20 <arseniiv> I don’t remember what’s known about other people yawning because of just reading about someone yawning but I think I do :D
20:05:10 <esowiki> [[User:Rerednaw]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69468&oldid=69351 * Rerednaw * (+278)
20:05:37 <esowiki> [[User:Rerednaw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69469&oldid=69468 * Rerednaw * (+1) /* Thank you zone */
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20:22:46 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69470&oldid=69467 * Rerednaw * (-37)
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01:15:01 <b_jonas> my hon. and learned friend fungot, is it true that you're the actor playing the parliament in the Brexit movie?
01:15:01 <fungot> b_jonas: arrow keys aren't recognized by " real compiler" ( real in the sense that other people use? camino?
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10:48:46 <wib_jonas> fungot: do you happen to know any good movie plot exploits or legal loopholes that you can only perform right across the brexit time?
10:48:46 <fungot> wib_jonas: how should that work?
10:48:58 <wib_jonas> fungot: dunno, that's why I'm asking you
10:48:58 <fungot> wib_jonas: the basic idea is that, in your drawing code, and see if he writes any libraries so trivial that he would find it an interesting bonus if they could only come from the command line
11:16:21 <esowiki> [[!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69471&oldid=69459 * IFcoltransG * (+69) Added some categories
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12:02:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:Garbage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69472 * IFcoltransG * (+247) /* "Definitions of a programming language" */ new section
12:35:51 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RavenclawOIer * New user account
12:39:54 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69473&oldid=69460 * RavenclawOIer * (+258)
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13:36:36 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69474&oldid=68781 * A * (+55)
13:36:52 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69475&oldid=69474 * A * (+150)
13:39:25 <esowiki> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69476&oldid=69475 * A * (+445) /* Other Chat and questions */
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14:00:38 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke, kinda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69477&oldid=68637 * A * (+38) "Kinda" jokes are still jokes.
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14:16:32 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69478&oldid=68891 * A * (+313)
14:18:11 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69479&oldid=69478 * A * (+362)
14:19:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69480&oldid=69479 * A * (+334)
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14:21:16 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69481&oldid=69480 * A * (+55) They didn't sign their comment, did they?
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14:24:20 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69482&oldid=68880 * A * (+30)
14:35:25 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69483&oldid=68302 * A * (-726)
14:35:50 <esowiki> [[W (A)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69484&oldid=69483 * A * (+16) /* Do you make me up? */
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17:50:43 <fungot> int-e: what a wonderfully explanatory, in-depth response!!
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18:48:56 <fungot> kmc: in my mind. available memory is limited to the speed of call/ cc is really a dos/ windows
18:49:12 <kmc> fungot: do you have any advice on integrating psychedelic experiences?
18:49:12 <fungot> kmc: only if your constitution and appetite for eldritch horror is well above average.' this refers to my pseudofilesystem.
18:49:26 <kmc> fungot: you know it is
18:49:26 <fungot> kmc: sicp's picture language is another example from the docs, actuallly say that??? i want to ask
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20:04:43 <esowiki> [[Aether]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69485 * DmilkaSTD * (+23) Created page with "== What is "Aether"? =="
20:07:49 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69486&oldid=69485 * DmilkaSTD * (+169)
20:08:00 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69487&oldid=69486 * DmilkaSTD * (+1)
20:08:25 <zzo38> From my testing it seems that using separations with the display device in Ghostscript is usable only with eight bits per channel, and only up to eight separations.
20:08:45 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69488&oldid=69487 * DmilkaSTD * (+30) /* Features */
20:09:24 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69489&oldid=69488 * DmilkaSTD * (+8)
20:09:50 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69490&oldid=69489 * DmilkaSTD * (+10)
20:10:13 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69491&oldid=69490 * DmilkaSTD * (+7)
20:12:55 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69492&oldid=69491 * DmilkaSTD * (+114)
20:17:18 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69493&oldid=69492 * DmilkaSTD * (+130)
20:17:41 <zzo38> The API will also provide the equivalent CMYK for a separation.
20:18:24 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69494&oldid=69493 * DmilkaSTD * (+37)
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20:18:48 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69495&oldid=69494 * DmilkaSTD * (-1)
20:19:07 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69496&oldid=69495 * DmilkaSTD * (+0)
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20:26:16 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69497&oldid=69496 * DmilkaSTD * (+4)
20:31:16 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69498&oldid=69497 * DmilkaSTD * (+25)
20:33:16 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69499&oldid=69498 * DmilkaSTD * (+125)
20:34:38 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69500&oldid=69499 * DmilkaSTD * (+62)
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20:35:48 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69501&oldid=69500 * DmilkaSTD * (+182)
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20:37:15 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69502&oldid=69501 * DmilkaSTD * (+20)
20:38:12 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69503&oldid=69502 * DmilkaSTD * (+7)
20:38:48 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69504&oldid=69503 * DmilkaSTD * (+19)
20:39:00 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69505&oldid=69504 * DmilkaSTD * (+0)
20:40:06 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69506&oldid=69505 * DmilkaSTD * (+9)
20:40:34 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69507&oldid=69506 * DmilkaSTD * (+8)
20:40:53 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69508&oldid=69507 * DmilkaSTD * (+0)
20:41:36 <esowiki> [[Aether]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69509&oldid=69508 * DmilkaSTD * (+1)
20:44:34 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69510 * DmilkaSTD * (+194) Created page with "== Introduction == Anarchysm language is based on Anarchysm, meaning that this langauge doesn't have rules. == How to use it == You can't, there is no rules so the code can do..."
20:49:33 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69511&oldid=69510 * DmilkaSTD * (+170)
20:49:41 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69512&oldid=69511 * DmilkaSTD * (+1)
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20:52:50 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69513&oldid=69512 * DmilkaSTD * (+461)
20:53:19 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69514&oldid=69513 * DmilkaSTD * (+30)
20:53:56 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69515&oldid=69514 * DmilkaSTD * (+30)
20:55:23 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69516&oldid=69515 * DmilkaSTD * (+18)
20:55:43 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69517&oldid=69516 * DmilkaSTD * (+27)
20:58:36 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69518&oldid=69517 * DmilkaSTD * (+161)
20:58:49 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69519&oldid=69381 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0)
20:59:03 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69520&oldid=69518 * DmilkaSTD * (+53)
21:01:12 <b_jonas> darn it, I inserted a battery with the wrong polarity
21:01:54 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69521&oldid=69520 * DmilkaSTD * (+117)
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22:22:30 <esowiki> [[QuineLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69522&oldid=65403 * KrystosTheOverlord * (-24)
22:23:56 <esowiki> [[QuineLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69523&oldid=69522 * KrystosTheOverlord * (+5)
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23:16:51 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69524&oldid=69521 * DmilkaSTD * (+122)
23:17:44 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69525&oldid=69171 * DmilkaSTD * (+81)
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23:20:49 <esowiki> [[Anarchysm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69526&oldid=69524 * DmilkaSTD * (+38)
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23:56:39 <int-e> Not much happened I guess. arseniiv had some Thue thoughts. We lost kingoffrance. What else...
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00:13:24 <oerjan> seems like a good time to be away
00:13:39 * oerjan was really just procrastinating logging on, anyway
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03:46:40 <imode> int-e: arseniiv had Thue thoughts?
03:46:49 <imode> also I doubt kingoffrance will be missed.
03:51:23 <oerjan> you could say he ... lost his head
03:53:25 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=508
03:53:29 <HackEso> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
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04:05:44 <kmc> seems you are the only person on that list who's still in this channel
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04:19:18 <Lykaina> i managed to program my arduino to function as a life counter for magic the gatering's edh format. tracks life and 5 sources of commander damage.
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04:22:10 <Lykaina> couse, 6-player games are so rare...
04:23:47 <Lykaina> might as well switch label CMDR0 to POISN
04:24:09 <Lykaina> in case i fight someone with infect
04:28:30 <Lykaina> i have an lcd attached to it
04:29:19 <Lykaina> so 6 lines and 14 columns of text
04:32:56 <zzo38> There are other counters a player can have in addition to poison counters too, which you might want to keep track of, but I have just used paper to keep track of life totals and other stuff
04:36:46 <Lykaina> i'll modify the program in the morning
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05:58:35 <zzo38> I mentioned that the Ghostscript display device supports only up to eight separations and only with eight bits per channel. I found that CMYK also only supports eight bits per channel; sixteen bits per channel is only compatible with RGB. Unfortunately, these things do not seem to be documented.
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07:24:53 <esowiki> [[Lazy expander]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69527 * Hakerh400 * (+10800) +[[Lazy expander]]
07:25:38 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69528&oldid=69322 * Hakerh400 * (+20) +[[Lazy expander]]
07:26:03 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69529&oldid=69421 * Hakerh400 * (+20) +[[Lazy expander]]
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09:12:19 <esowiki> [[Lazy expander]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69530&oldid=69527 * Hakerh400 * (+1) /* Function */
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09:27:49 <esowiki> [[NULL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69531&oldid=53697 * YamTokTpaFa * (+12) /* External resources */
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13:46:08 <esowiki> [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69532&oldid=68774 * A * (-25) /* 99 bottles of beer */ Remove Repetition
13:47:08 <esowiki> [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69533&oldid=69532 * A * (-21) /* 99 bottles of beer */ More confusing repetition
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15:29:21 <esowiki> [[Espaol]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69534 * DmilkaSTD * (+802) Created page with "Espaol is a language inspired on [[English]] but is on Spanish. == Examples == === Print "Hello World" === The next program prints "Hello World" Este programa imprime "Hell..."
15:29:43 <esowiki> [[Espaol]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69535&oldid=69534 * DmilkaSTD * (-1)
15:31:09 <esowiki> [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69536&oldid=69525 * DmilkaSTD * (+34)
15:31:40 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainflow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69537&oldid=69133 * DmilkaSTD * (+20)
15:32:01 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainflow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69538&oldid=69537 * DmilkaSTD * (+79)
15:32:25 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainflow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69539&oldid=69538 * DmilkaSTD * (-10)
15:33:29 <esowiki> [[BF-ASM:8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69540&oldid=69202 * DmilkaSTD * (+8)
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22:48:56 <esowiki> [[User:Rerednaw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69541&oldid=69469 * Rerednaw * (+86) /* Thank you zone */
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22:58:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Ja]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69542&oldid=56306 * Rerednaw * (+2) /* Interpreter */
22:59:33 <esowiki> [[Talk:Ja]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69543&oldid=69542 * Rerednaw * (+2) /* Interpreter */
23:00:23 <esowiki> [[Talk:Aj]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69544&oldid=56307 * Rerednaw * (+4) /* Interpreter */
23:19:01 <esowiki> [[Talk:Alphaprint]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69545 * Rerednaw * (+636) Mini interpreter
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23:37:40 <esowiki> [[User:Rerednaw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69546&oldid=69541 * Rerednaw * (+31)
23:37:53 <esowiki> [[User:Rerednaw]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69547&oldid=69546 * Rerednaw * (+4)
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