←2016-11 2016-12 2017-01→ ↑2016 ↑all
2016-12-01
00:00:48 -!- FreeFull has joined.
00:01:42 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if you have a sorting algorithm that works in O(n log n) where n is the length of the list, but you're trying to sort based on the cardinality of prime factorization using an algorithm that runs in O(k^3) (did I not mention that someone proved that integer factorization is in P in this hypothetical scenario? :P)
00:02:59 <hppavilion[1]> Then the actual sorting would be at least O(k^3 n log n), though a few terms there might be superfluous
00:03:12 <shachaf> You can factor primes in O(1) time.
00:03:16 <shachaf> Or at most O(log n).
00:04:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...integer factorization. Finding the prime factorization of the number.
00:04:31 <izalove> void factor(int prime) { printf("1 %d\n", prime); }
00:05:12 <shachaf> Yes.
00:05:22 <shachaf> O(log n)
00:05:45 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...what problem do you think I'm describing?
00:06:23 <izalove> and what part of that is log n?
00:06:32 <shachaf> The printf.
00:06:35 <shachaf> And maybe the function call?
00:06:44 <shachaf> I guess that depends on your calling convention.
00:06:50 <hppavilion[1]> *sigh*
00:06:59 <izalove> why does printf take log n time?
00:07:14 <shachaf> Because the string length is logarithmic in the integer.
00:07:17 <izalove> ok
00:07:23 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You can factor a subset of wholes in O(1)
00:07:25 <izalove> but it's at most 10 bytes
00:07:38 <shachaf> Oh, you're using real C, not hypothetical C with unbounded integers?
00:07:42 <shachaf> Then everything is O(1) hth
00:07:45 <izalove> ok
00:07:46 <shachaf> s/T/t/
00:08:01 <hppavilion[1]> One of us is being an idiot.
00:08:03 <shachaf> I should be writing a theta but I don't have the key here.
00:08:04 <hppavilion[1]> I'm not sure which one.
00:08:13 <shachaf> ?
00:09:02 <izalove> `` us=( 'hppavilion[1]' shachaf izalove ); echo "\${us[RANDOM%3]} is an idiot"
00:09:03 <HackEgo> izalove is an idiot
00:09:08 <izalove> fuck
00:09:15 <shachaf> d3
00:09:15 <lambdabot> shachaf: 2
00:09:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You didn't declare who each number corresponds to tdnh
00:10:02 <shachaf> I don't want to declare anyone an idiot.
00:10:05 <shachaf> Why would I do that?
00:11:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: toucheACUTE
00:12:22 <hppavilion[1]> `? Taneb
00:12:25 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
00:12:41 <Taneb> The who with the what now
00:12:51 * hppavilion[1] hides
00:14:27 <shachaf> `cwlprits taneb
00:14:38 <HackEgo> shachäf shachäf Tanëb oerjän boil̈y Tanëb oerjän Tanëb oerjän shachäf boil̈y oerjän shachäf shachäf shachäf oerjän Tanëb nitïa
00:15:05 <hppavilion[1]> Now we need a way to `? without triggering a nick
00:15:40 <hppavilion[1]> `?uiet
00:16:17 <Taneb> I think I will depart as quickly as I arrived now
00:16:22 <Taneb> On account of it is time for bed
00:16:58 <hppavilion[1]> I think it'd have to be a separate command like `?uiet which takes an argument with a special separator, removes the separator (with escaping somehow), passes the new content to ?, then returns its output with the deseparated version replaced with a non-nick-triggering one
00:19:00 <shachaf> `` \? \$(rot13 gnaro) | rot13
00:19:01 <hppavilion[1]> So if _ is the separator, [`?uiet Ta_neb] will return "Tanëb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't ..."
00:19:02 <HackEgo> Gnaro vf abg ryyvbgg, ab znggre jubz lbh nfx. Ur nyfb vfa'g n enoov nygubhtu ur unf cergraqrq va gur cnfg. Ur unf ng yrnfg gjb onpxhc xrlobneqf jvgu qbqtl FUVSG XRlf, phor ebbg bs avar traqref, naq nobir nirentr, abg gbb ibyhzvabhf, ohg pnyz rlroebjf. Ur fbzrgvzrf vairagf jvgubhg abgvpvat vg (frr: gnaroiragvbaf).
00:30:19 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode
00:30:20 <HackEgo> No output.
00:30:23 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode ढथग
00:30:24 <HackEgo> ​[U+0922 DEVANAGARI LETTER DDHA] [U+0925 DEVANAGARI LETTER THA] [U+0917 DEVANAGARI LETTER GA]
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00:43:51 <Jafet> `? gnaro
00:43:52 <HackEgo> gnaro? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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00:46:08 <moonheart08> i am the ugly nesting 3000: world[room.content.exits[Object.keys(room.content.exits)[exitInd]]]
00:46:18 <moonheart08> (actual piece of code from something im writing)
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01:54:57 <oerjan> @messages-foul
01:54:57 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 18h 58m 8s ago: I believe pledis is next to be banned, if you check the logs.
01:55:09 <oerjan> WE'LL SEE
01:58:50 <shachaf> messages most foul
01:59:11 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you match the @messages suffix to the messages that you know you're about to receive because you read the logs anyway?
01:59:24 <oerjan> ...MAYBE.
01:59:28 <oerjan> (yeth)
01:59:47 <shachaf> I didn't realize that until I saw your poem.
01:59:52 <shachaf> Actually I didn't realize it until now.
02:00:00 <oerjan> epiphany!
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02:06:16 <oerjan> there seems to be a hole in the logs, i'm going to assume nothing of interest happened...
02:07:08 <oerjan> it was silent enough it's likely to be true.
02:08:34 <shachaf> When?
02:10:34 <oerjan> 3:27 - 5:03
02:10:43 <oerjan> tunes time.
02:11:03 <oerjan> (which may or may not be a round timezone these days.
02:11:07 <oerjan> )
02:11:11 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What IS tunes ti- oh.
02:11:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Is it a UTC+ of any sort?
02:11:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What's on the sides of the log?
02:11:49 <hppavilion[1]> (loghole)
02:12:21 <oerjan> 03:27:32 --- nick: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
02:12:39 <oerjan> 05:04:02 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #esoteric
02:13:21 <oerjan> (it also had a very brief break earlier)
02:14:08 <oerjan> the previous message of any interest was your @tell
02:14:22 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
02:14:24 <oerjan> and the next was \oren\'s TTF talk
02:15:33 <zzo38> How much does the GURPS fourth edition basic set Characters book weigh (in pounds)?
02:15:55 <oerjan> so basically nothing in 10 1/2 hours, so it seems likely tunes missed nothing in its breaks either
02:18:14 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Bowserinator: ...Oh, I thought this was #xkcd xD <-- and somehow, it didn't really look out of place.
02:18:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well true
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02:30:31 <oerjan> <shachaf> You can factor primes in O(1) time. <-- O(n) hth
02:30:56 <shachaf> is n the number of factors here
02:31:06 <oerjan> the n is conventionally input size in bits or equivalent
02:31:30 <oerjan> so, assuming writing a character of output is O(1)...
02:32:29 <oerjan> (which is true for TMs)
02:33:07 <shachaf> n is obvious the number you're factoring hth
02:33:08 <shachaf> ly
02:33:18 <oerjan> `? ly
02:33:25 <HackEgo> ly? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:33:32 <oerjan> a common misconception.
02:33:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: obviously
02:33:50 <hppavilion[1]> obvious ly is obvious
02:34:09 <oerjan> ah. obvious
02:36:04 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, that's where dingbat is familiar from
02:36:09 <hppavilion[1]> that or this. whichever.
02:37:04 <dingbat> I ARE BEEN SUMMON
02:37:22 <dingbat> what is it that you require to be dinged or batted?
02:38:47 <hppavilion[1]> dingbat: ...nothing, I was just noting that I realized I recognize you in nomic from here
02:46:55 * dingbat goes back into his hole
02:49:33 * oerjan sees no dingbat in ##nomic
02:50:07 <dingbat> oerjan: a different network :)
03:05:26 <shachaf> oerjan: nomic people tend to be silent hth
03:05:52 <oerjan> yes, but not invisible
03:19:17 <oerjan> `? whom
03:19:20 <HackEgo> See: who
03:37:07 <shachaf> `? u
03:37:26 <shachaf> `? the u
03:37:27 <HackEgo> The U are a very mad people.
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04:53:33 <hppavilion[1]> `? abyss
04:53:38 <HackEgo> In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.
04:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> I thing "`? you" would be a better entry there.
04:55:48 <zzo38> Do anyone on here know how to figure new modifier values for GURPS?
04:57:31 <alercah> `? esoterria
04:57:33 <HackEgo> esoterria? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:57:46 <alercah> `? esoterra
04:57:47 <HackEgo> esoterra? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:58:48 <alercah> `learn Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
04:58:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'esoterra': Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
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05:34:34 <\oren\> AAAAAA
05:34:41 <oerjan> A?
05:35:11 <\oren\> why do movies keep showing the engines on spaceships firing when the ship is going at a constant velocity?!??
05:35:34 <oerjan> space molasses hth
05:35:46 <\oren\> spaceships only fire their engines when they CHANGE their velocity!!!!!!!!
05:36:06 <alercah> \oren\: when to movies keep showing spaceships with engines only at the back steering?
05:44:30 <zzo38> GURPS has both kinds
06:41:54 <hppavilion[1]> versin t = 1-cos(t)
06:42:14 <hppavilion[1]> coversin t = 1+cos(t)
06:42:16 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
06:42:30 <hppavilion[1]> a(+)b = 1/((1/a)+(1/b))
06:42:45 <hppavilion[1]> harmcoversin t = 1(+)cos(t)
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08:30:39 <Perenelle> I do love pizza
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08:34:09 <myname> who doesn't
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11:38:08 <boily> `wisdom
11:38:22 <HackEgo> caps lock//CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES
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12:10:40 <int-e> `quote
12:10:53 <HackEgo> 105) <oklopol> but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well
12:13:46 <int-e> ... Oh that's what inspired \oren\'s remark about Granny Smith yesterday.
12:16:26 <boily> fungot: fungellot. can you clarify that?
12:16:26 <fungot> boily: i also love the sound of that it's just that i was a pilot when shinra was killed! ulp! what a crew. expert! enlighten us on limit techniques, why don't you think we're welcome here? rude of the ones you were sad.
12:16:45 <boily> fungot: I like the sound of coffee.
12:16:45 <fungot> boily: oh? that's too bad.
12:16:54 <boily> fungot: no, really, it's good coffee.
12:16:54 <fungot> boily: it's not you they're after sephiroth.... i cannot speak. even the rooms of people in midgar. i'm ...really... sorry...
12:17:15 <boily> fungot: I'm not Sephiroth. I'm also not Taneb.
12:17:16 <fungot> boily: uh... tifa... i don't know each other. until one day you'll meet the real world, being done in like that, buy!! we sell! we buy!!
12:17:22 <boily> fungot: neither am I Tifa.
12:17:57 <int-e> fungot seems to be in a dark mood
12:17:57 <fungot> int-e: ye... yes let's... yet let's... yet let's...! is that the way....... that one! this is it?
12:18:12 <int-e> ...
12:20:29 <boily> ^botsnack
12:20:29 <fungot> Oh nom nom nom!
12:20:33 <boily> ^style irc
12:20:33 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
12:20:38 * boily pats the fungot
12:20:38 <fungot> boily: it makes perfect sense...
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13:57:49 <moonythedwarf> moo2
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14:44:30 <moonythedwarf> hi b_jonas
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15:36:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ReThue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50430&oldid=44321 * SuperJedi224 * (-1252) Blanked the page
15:44:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[HBL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50431&oldid=50424 * Moon * (+121) Added categories
16:16:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50432&oldid=44685 * SuperJedi224 * (+2) /* Subtraction */
16:17:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50433&oldid=50432 * SuperJedi224 * (-27) /* Cube Root */
17:20:05 * moonythedwarf ponders if his theoretical HBL -> Boolfuck translation is accurate
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17:50:02 <b_jonas> In git, if I want to reset the current branch to a different state and move the working tree and index to there as well, is it true that instead of messing with git reset, I should instead (curbranch=\$(git rev-parse --abbrev-ref HEAD); git checkout targetcommit && git checkout -B "\$curbranch") because that properly deletes version-controlled files that exist in the current state but not in the new state?
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20:29:45 <\oren\> now there's an element named after tennissee?!
20:31:06 <shachaf> What's wrong with Tennessee?
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20:44:01 <\oren\> shachaf: I prefer then they name elements after people
20:44:12 <shachaf> It's named after Tennessee Williams, obviously.
20:44:51 <shachaf> What do you think of Yttrium, Ytterbium, Terbium, and Erbium?
20:45:09 <shachaf> They're all named after the same Swedish village.
20:45:13 <Phantom_Hoover> or strontium
20:45:16 <Phantom_Hoover> or ruthenium
20:45:18 <Phantom_Hoover> or polonium
20:45:29 <Phantom_Hoover> or americium
20:45:46 <shachaf> Well, plenty of elements are named after places.
20:45:51 <shachaf> Like Berkelium!
20:46:33 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
20:46:33 <lambdabot> KOAK 011953Z 30011KT 10SM FEW150 14/05 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP200 T01440050
20:46:36 <shachaf> `? weather
20:46:46 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
20:46:51 <lambdabot> CYUL 012000Z 23018G25KT 15SM -RA BKN020 OVC030 07/03 A2946 RMK SC6SC2 SLP978 \ ENVA 012020Z 26021KT 9999 FEW012 BKN017 BKN022 02/01 Q1006 TEMPO 1000 SHSN VV005 RMK WIND 670FT 28026KT \ ESSB 012020Z
20:46:51 <lambdabot> 30006KT CAVOK M02/M07 Q0998 R30/19//60 \ KOAK 011953Z 30011KT 10SM FEW150 14/05 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP200 T01440050 \ PAMR 011953Z 05003KT 9SM OVC055 A2925 RMK AO2 SNE45 SLPNO P0000 \$
20:47:29 <Phantom_Hoover> i think like a third of elements are named after places
20:47:47 <shachaf> Many places are named after people, though.
20:47:57 <Phantom_Hoover> scandium, gallium, germanium, indium
20:48:02 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, ...no?
20:48:24 <shachaf> Berkeley, CA is named after George Berkeley, for example.
20:48:45 <shachaf> America is named after Amerigo Vespucci.
20:49:20 <int-e> hmm, Paris?
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20:50:26 * int-e without verbs today, apparently.
20:50:28 <Phantom_Hoover> meanwhile strontian, russia, poland, scandinavia, gaul and india are not named after people
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20:57:42 <Phantom_Hoover> ah, hafnium, manganese, magnesium and europium also
21:08:02 * moony nouse verbs
21:08:32 <moony> @messages-loud
21:08:32 <lambdabot> APic said 3d 7h 51m 22s ago: Discord is proprietary, centralized, and probably records all Conversations. Also „We also added Virus Scanning, which will automatically scan uploaded executables and
21:08:32 <lambdabot> archives to make sure they're safe.“ So: Everything goes through the Servers and is indexed; so maybe it has a Voicechat You can use without paying Money, but it is absolutely not _free_. You are
21:08:32 <lambdabot> paying with Your Privacy.
21:11:09 <int-e> "you're the product"
21:11:14 * moony wonders if his HBL->Boolfuck translation is accurate
21:13:49 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
21:13:50 <lambdabot> CYYZ 012100Z 25015KT 15SM OVC025 05/00 A2966 RMK SC8 SLP051
21:15:57 <\oren\> europe is named after a phoenician princess
21:17:21 <\oren\> who was kidnapped by zeus when zeus was in the form of a bull
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21:54:29 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
21:54:29 <lambdabot> EGLL 012150Z VRB02KT 9999 SCT036 03/02 Q1028
21:59:27 <ais523> @tell Vorpal found while trying to find cfunge's website: https://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/roche/courses/f12si413/project/befunge.php.html (apparently cfunge is genuinely being used in academia as a teaching aid, and the resulting website outranks the cfunge repo in the search I did; I didn't even realise cfunge did Befunge-93, maybe it doesn't)
21:59:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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22:38:08 <\oren\> U.S. media report multiple shootings by butcher knife in Ohio province, sparking world-wide search for manufacturer of miraculous knife.
22:39:47 <int-e> Hmm, butcher knife armed with deadly AI.
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23:18:30 <zzo38> I found someone used -n and +b and +e channel modes to make it similar to having +n but some clients are exempt.
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2016-12-02
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01:48:56 <oerjan> *chirp*
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01:58:55 * hppavilion[1] smashes oerjan
01:59:03 <hppavilion[1]> CRICKETS MUST BE EXTERMINATED
01:59:17 <oerjan> smashing people is not cricket tdnh
02:00:07 <oerjan> also you may be confusing crickets with cockroaches.
02:00:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: No, crickets
02:01:32 <oerjan> if you exterminate crickets you have no conscience
02:01:45 * oerjan wonders if anyone gets his puns
02:03:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I got that.
02:03:37 <oerjan> both of them?
02:03:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: smashing people is not cricket [the sport]
02:04:28 <oerjan> *ding* un point
02:04:29 <hppavilion[1]> if you exterminate [Jimny- Jiminie- OH FUCK THAT GUY] cricket[] you have no conscience
02:04:41 <oerjan> *ding* deux point
02:04:44 <oerjan> *+s
02:05:05 <oerjan> . o O ( i must be more obscure in the future )
02:31:31 <oerjan> <\oren\> now there's an element named after tennissee?! <-- i'm really wondering what it's going to be called in norwegian. historical custom would suggest "Tenness", but the german and danish wikipedia (which have similar issues) have gone to opposite conclusions of eachother (and i think neither has been approved by any scientists.)
02:31:42 <izalove> `` echo \$LANG
02:31:50 <oerjan> (also Tenness is a horrible word.)
02:31:50 <HackEgo> en_NZ.UTF-8
02:31:58 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:32:00 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:32:04 <oerjan> ``` echo \$LANG
02:32:06 <HackEgo> C
02:32:08 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -tx <<< \$'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:32:08 <oerjan> hth
02:32:08 <HackEgo> aaaa_bbbb \ aaaaxbbbb
02:32:20 <izalove> what's happening?
02:32:30 <oerjan> `which sort
02:32:32 <HackEgo> ​/usr/bin/sort
02:32:34 <izalove> it's comparing aaaa with aaaa_bbbb both times
02:32:54 <izalove> but the first time aaaa is sorted before aaaa_bbbb
02:32:59 <izalove> and the second time after
02:36:25 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort -s <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:36:30 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:36:41 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort -s -tx <<< \$'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:36:43 <HackEgo> aaaa_bbbb \ aaaaxbbbb
02:36:46 <oerjan> hth
02:37:01 <izalove> how does that help? D:
02:37:11 <oerjan> izalove: last resort comparison
02:37:36 <fizzie> I don't see any difference in the outputs.
02:37:47 <oerjan> oh
02:37:50 <oerjan> never mind
02:38:00 <oerjan> fizzie: the order
02:38:12 <izalove> same order as what i got without -s
02:38:44 <oerjan> right, sorry
02:39:10 <oerjan> ``` sort -tZ <<< \$'aaaaZbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:39:11 <HackEgo> aaaaZbbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:39:44 <oerjan> > ord '_'
02:39:45 <izalove> this makes no sense!
02:39:46 <lambdabot> 95
02:40:07 <oerjan> izalove: i think it depends on whether the character is before or after _
02:40:37 <shachaf> hierjan
02:40:50 <shachaf> HireFly
02:41:24 <shachaf> hiring everyone today
02:41:50 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaabbbb'
02:41:52 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaabbbb
02:43:03 <oerjan> izalove: it might be a bug that has never been caught because people rarely use characters smaller than tab?
02:43:32 <shachaf> What is?
02:43:34 <izalove> i get the same output in toybox/busybox/gnu/sbase/heirloom/plan9
02:43:45 <shachaf> LANG=C sort order is a well-known thing.
02:44:39 <oerjan> izalove: oh wait. you're not actually declaring a field to sort by, so it's sorted by the whole regardless. duh.
02:44:52 * oerjan hopes that was right
02:45:15 <izalove> yes it's sorted by the whole line but why does that matter?
02:45:17 <oerjan> *the whole line
02:45:47 <oerjan> izalove: that means your -tx does not matter at all.
02:45:58 <oerjan> you're just sorting a slightly different file
02:45:59 <izalove> are you sure?
02:46:25 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:46:26 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:46:32 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort <<< \$'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:46:34 <HackEgo> aaaa_bbbb \ aaaaxbbbb
02:46:54 <oerjan> > sort "\tx_"
02:46:57 <lambdabot> "\t_x"
02:47:08 <izalove> ok, let me try again
02:47:51 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -tx -k1,1 <<< \$'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:47:52 <HackEgo> aaaaxbbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:47:58 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -k1,1 <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:47:58 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:48:02 <izalove> what
02:48:25 <izalove> ok
02:48:34 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -k1 <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:48:36 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:48:40 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -k1 <<< \$'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:48:42 <HackEgo> aaaabbbb \ aaaa_bbbb
02:48:48 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -tx -k1 <<< \$'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:48:49 <HackEgo> aaaa_bbbb \ aaaaxbbbb
02:49:02 <oerjan> hichaf btw
02:49:08 <izalove> it makes sense i guess
02:50:56 <oerjan> -k1 is equivalent to the whole line
02:51:10 <oerjan> at least in this case.
02:51:27 <izalove> yes i was just testing it
02:51:29 <izalove> thanks
02:53:40 <oerjan> you're welcome
02:53:54 <shachaf> `5 w
02:54:00 <HackEgo> 1/1:bct//BCT is short for Bored Cat Transform, an effective compression technique for curtains and sofas. \ d//D is a letter in the alphabet! It's also the name of a programming language. \ password//The password of the month is ⛄ \ til//TIL that TIL means Today I Learned \ oregano//Oregano is the main spice in oreganic cuisine.
02:54:16 <shachaf> `dowt d
02:54:21 <fizzie> `` LANG=C sort -k 2 <<< \$'x a\nx\tb'
02:54:23 <shachaf> oerjan: ahem hth
02:54:36 <HackEgo> 3195:2013-06-20 <guestböt> learn d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d nothing \ 3341:2013-07-31 <FreeFul̈l> for x in wisdom/*; do tac "\$x" > "\$x"a; mv "\$x"a "\$x"; done \ 5139:2014-11-16 <shachäf> ` rm -r wisdom/d \ 6150:2015-10-26 <gameman̈j> echo "D is a letter in the alphabet! It\'s also the name of a programming
02:54:36 <HackEgo> xb \ x a
02:54:37 <fizzie> That one's the weird one.
02:55:07 <fizzie> (Without a specified delimiter, the blanks used as a field separator are included in the following field.)
02:56:43 <oerjan> `` hg log -r 3342
02:56:47 <HackEgo> changeset: 3342:c777e2d91031 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 31 20:46:16 2013 +0000 \ summary: <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "\$x" > "\$x"a; mv "\$x"a "\$x"; done
02:56:54 <FreeFull> Ok
02:57:03 <shachaf> `` hg log -r 3343
02:57:09 <HackEgo> changeset: 3343:76820f8a4c50 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 31 20:53:16 2013 +0000 \ summary: <Bike> revert
02:57:19 <oerjan> `` hg log -r 3344
02:57:25 <HackEgo> changeset: 3344:77ab2dbd6adb \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 31 20:54:18 2013 +0000 \ summary: <Bike> echo \'? | rev\' >bin/\xd8\x9f && chmod +x bin/\xd8\x9f
02:57:27 <shachaf> oerjan: it's a new month, is what i was getting at
02:57:33 <oerjan> oh
02:57:39 <shachaf> `? hlnp
02:57:41 <HackEgo> hlnp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:57:51 <shachaf> `? ../bin/hlnp
02:57:53 <HackEgo> revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497)' \ hg log -r "\$revset" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:58:12 <shachaf> `slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#.\$# | 3342 | 3343&#
02:58:16 <HackEgo> ​../bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497) | 3342 | 3343' \ hg log -r "\$revset" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:58:28 <shachaf> `revert
02:58:44 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
02:58:47 <shachaf> `slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#..\$# | 3342 | 3343&#
02:58:51 <HackEgo> ​../bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 3342 | 3343)' \ hg log -r "\$revset" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:59:00 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is lutefisk
02:59:09 <shachaf> Haven't we had that one before?
02:59:09 <oerjan> it's in season!
02:59:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:59:16 <oerjan> oh have we?
02:59:45 <oerjan> `` howg password | grep -i lut
02:59:53 <HackEgo> ​<oerjän> learn The password of the month is lutefisk
02:59:56 <shachaf> Maybe not.
03:00:00 <oerjan> doesn't look like it
03:00:08 <shachaf> What was the way to get a history URL?
03:00:59 <oerjan> feel free to add it.
03:01:08 <shachaf> Huh.
03:01:49 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hwrl//echo 'come on, you can type seven characters'
03:01:51 <HackEgo> bin/hwrl
03:03:09 <oerjan> shachaf: your additions of 3342 and 3343 were redundant hth
03:03:20 <shachaf> oerjan: So they were.
03:03:50 <shachaf> `undo -2
03:03:55 <oerjan> um
03:04:05 <shachaf> oops
03:04:07 <oerjan> we've had in between changes hth
03:04:10 <shachaf> `revert
03:04:12 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
03:04:17 <shachaf> `cat bin/undo
03:04:19 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "\$@" | patch -p1 -R
03:04:26 <shachaf> `` hg diff -c -4
03:04:30 <HackEgo> diff -r 479bc0f57a54 -r afd7af1d22f4 wisdom/password \ --- a/wisdom/passwordFri Dec 02 02:58:22 2016 +0000 \ +++ b/wisdom/passwordFri Dec 02 02:58:37 2016 +0000 \ @@ -1,1 +1,1 @@ \ -The password of the month is ⛄ \ +The password of the month is lutefisk
03:04:35 <shachaf> `` hg diff -c -5
03:04:39 <HackEgo> diff -r e72686e2660c -r 479bc0f57a54 bin/hlnp \ --- a/bin/hlnpFri Dec 02 02:58:16 2016 +0000 \ +++ b/bin/hlnpFri Dec 02 02:58:22 2016 +0000 \ @@ -1,2 +1,2 @@ \ -revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497)'
03:04:49 <oerjan> shachaf: wait
03:05:00 <oerjan> `hoag bin/hnlp
03:05:05 <HackEgo> No output.
03:05:08 <oerjan> wat
03:05:12 <oerjan> `hoag bin/hlnp
03:05:18 <HackEgo> ​<shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#..\$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ <shachäf> revert \ <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#.\$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,It,Itb, \ <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//1s.5643.5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497. \ <shachäf> sled bin/hlnp//1s#..\$# | 5642 | 5643&# \ <shachäf> revert \ <shachäf> sled bin/hlnp//s#..\$#
03:05:24 <oerjan> `doag bin/hlnp
03:05:26 <oerjan> ...
03:05:30 <HackEgo> 9812:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#..\$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ 9811:2016-12-02 <shachäf> revert \ 9810:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#.\$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ 9800:2016-11-29 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,It,Itb, \ 9799:2016-11-29 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//1s.5643.5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497. \ 9690:2016-11-14 <shachäf> sl
03:05:52 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 9800 bin/hlnp >bin/hlnp
03:06:00 <HackEgo> No output.
03:06:04 <oerjan> `cat bin/hlnp
03:06:06 <HackEgo> revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497)' \ hg log -r "\$revset" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:06:11 <shachaf> That seems overly complicated.
03:06:14 <shachaf> Could've just `undo -5
03:06:23 <shachaf> At the time that I showed what revision -5 was.
03:06:32 <oerjan> and losing the password?
03:06:39 <shachaf> undo isn't revert
03:06:45 <oerjan> oh
03:06:48 <oerjan> darn
03:06:50 <oerjan> OKAY
03:07:14 <shachaf> Anyway, that password is insecure.
03:07:24 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//s,1497,1497 | 3341,
03:07:26 <oerjan> shocking
03:07:28 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 3341)' \ hg log -r "\$revset" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:08:55 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:11:18 <oerjan> impossible!
03:12:34 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
03:12:37 <oerjan> `cat bin/makelist
03:12:39 <HackEgo> name="\$1"; file="bin/\$name"; makelistlist "\$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "\$file"; for n in "\$@"; do echo "\$n" >> "\$file"; done
03:12:46 <oerjan> `cat bin/emptylist
03:12:47 <HackEgo> echo -n "\$(basename "\$0")\${@:+ }\$@: "; tail -n+2 "\$0" | xargs; exit
03:13:53 <oerjan> wtf
03:17:06 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//1s,9071.*,121 | 122 | 194 | 195 | 196 | 770 | 771 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 2113 | 2114 | 3341 | 3342 | 3343 | 4530 | 4531 | 5642 | 5643 | 5895 | 5897 | 9070 | 9071 | 9074 | 9075)',
03:17:09 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (121 | 122 | 194 | 195 | 196 | 770 | 771 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 2113 | 2114 | 3341 | 3342 | 3343 | 4530 | 4531 | 5642 | 5643 | 5895 | 5897 | 9070 | 9071 | 9074 | 9075)' \ hg log -r "\$revset" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:17:46 <shachaf> oerjan: come on
03:17:55 <shachaf> now i'm going to have to keep it sorted #scow
03:18:01 -!- aleph- has joined.
03:18:04 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
03:18:18 <aleph-> Why am I just now learning of this chan? :D
03:19:08 <oerjan> `relcome aleph-
03:19:08 <shachaf> oerjan: I told you this should have been in a separate file.
03:19:11 <HackEgo> aleph-: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:19:23 <shachaf> But then I was trying to make you write it, which is futile.
03:19:31 <oerjan> yep.
03:19:53 <oerjan> ...ok then
03:19:58 <shachaf> `` for r in 121 122 194 195 196 770 771 1000 1001 1493 1497 2113 2114 3341 3342 3343 4530 4531 5642 5643 5895 5897 9070 9071 9074 9075; do echo \$r; done | sort > share/badrevs
03:20:03 <HackEgo> No output.
03:20:15 <oerjan> i was going to call it scowrevs hth
03:20:31 <HackEgo> No output.
03:20:31 <shachaf> tdh thx
03:22:12 <shachaf> If I left it like this, you would fix it, though.
03:22:18 <oerjan> AH
03:22:24 <shachaf> Since your weakness is an inconsistent state.
03:22:26 <HackEgo> cat: share/badrevs: No such file or directory
03:22:32 <oerjan> `cat share/scowrevs
03:22:33 <HackEgo> 1000 \ 1001 \ 121 \ 122 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 770 \ 771 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:22:37 <oerjan> HMPH
03:23:47 <oerjan> `` sort -n share/scowrevs > share/sc; mv share/sc{,owrevs}
03:23:50 <HackEgo> No output.
03:23:53 <aleph-> HackEgo: Welcome.
03:23:54 <shachaf> `` type sponge
03:23:56 <oerjan> `cat share/scowrevs
03:23:57 <HackEgo> 121 \ 122 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 770 \ 771 \ 1000 \ 1001 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:24:15 <shachaf> oerjan: oh man, that wasn't even what i was talking about
03:24:22 <aleph-> Shite.
03:24:24 <aleph-> I mean, hi.
03:24:27 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
03:24:29 <aleph-> I'm fucking zonked.
03:24:33 <oerjan> hi aleph-
03:24:36 <aleph-> o/
03:24:52 <aleph-> So esolangs huh... very on topic. :P
03:25:42 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hlnp//scowrevs="\$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd'|')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! (\$scowrevs)" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:25:45 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp
03:26:07 <shachaf> `dowg ../wisdom/zzo38
03:26:15 <HackEgo> hg: parse error at 16: syntax error
03:26:51 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//s,[(][\$],\$(,
03:26:53 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//scowrevs="\$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd'|')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! \$(scowrevs)" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:26:59 <shachaf> huh?
03:27:03 <shachaf> scowrevs isn't a command
03:27:04 <oerjan> oh wait
03:27:06 <oerjan> `revert
03:27:16 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
03:27:20 <oerjan> i'm probably zonked too
03:27:25 <oerjan> @wn zonked
03:27:26 <lambdabot> No match for "zonked".
03:27:26 <shachaf> `` echo "\$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd '|')"
03:27:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/-sd
03:27:37 <shachaf> oh
03:27:39 <shachaf> right
03:27:42 <oerjan> fnord
03:27:46 <shachaf> `` echo "\$(cat share/scowrevs | /bin/paste -sd '|')"
03:27:48 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /bin/paste: No such file or directory
03:27:53 <shachaf> `` type -a paste
03:27:55 <HackEgo> paste is /hackenv/bin/paste \ paste is /usr/bin/paste
03:28:00 <shachaf> `` echo "\$(cat share/scowrevs | /usr/bin/paste -sd '|')"
03:28:02 <HackEgo> 121|122|194|195|196|770|771|1000|1001|1493|1497|2113|2114|3341|3342|3343|4530|4531|5642|5643|5895|5897|9070|9071|9074|9075
03:28:20 <shachaf> `slwd ../bin/hlnp//s#p#/usr/bin/p#
03:28:22 <HackEgo> ​../bin/hlnp//scowrevs="\$(cat share/scowrevs | /usr/bin/paste -sd'|')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! (\$scowrevs)" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:28:43 <shachaf> `dowg elliott
03:28:49 <HackEgo> 2487:2013-03-23 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/\$/ And a lystrosaur./\' wisdom/elliott \ 1855:2013-01-26 <oerjän> sed -i -e 1N -e \'s/\\n//\' wisdom/elliott \ 1854:2013-01-26 <oerjän> echo " He is also tire." >>wisdom/elliott \ 1853:2013-01-26 <oerjän> revert \ 1852:2013-01-26 <ellioẗt> learn elliott is tire \ 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:
03:28:56 <shachaf> `dowg zzo38
03:29:01 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:29:38 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:29:45 <HackEgo> cat: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument
03:30:12 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; touch share/scowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:30:17 <HackEgo> hg: parse error: missing argument
03:30:51 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; echo 1000000 > share/scowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:30:56 <HackEgo> abort: unknown revision '1000000'!
03:31:01 <shachaf> come on, hg
03:31:17 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; echo 2 > share/scowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:31:24 <HackEgo> 9071:2016-09-25 <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 9070:2016-09-25 <evilips̈e> ` chmod 777 / -R \ 771:2012-10-06 <oerjän> revert \ 770:2012-10-06 <FreeFul̈l> run rm -rf wisdom \ 196:2012-04-08 <shachäf> revert 0 \ 194:2012-04-08 <shachäf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:31:28 <shachaf> `doag
03:31:35 <HackEgo> 9826:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//s#p#/usr/bin/p# \ 9825:2016-12-02 <oerjän> revert \ 9824:2016-12-02 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,[(][\$],\$(, \ 9823:2016-12-02 <shachäf> mkx bin/hlnp//scowrevs="\$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd\'|\')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! (\$scowrevs)" "\$@" | sed \'s/\\(\\(^\\| \\)[<Itb][^ ]*\\)\\([^ ][^ ]\\)/\\1\xcc\
03:31:39 <aleph-> Man, I haven't played with one of these in years.
03:31:41 <shachaf> good, no lasting harm
03:31:46 <shachaf> One of whom?
03:31:54 <aleph-> HackBots
03:35:08 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//1s,cat[^"]*,/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs),
03:35:11 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//scowrevs="\$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! (\$scowrevs)" "\$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:35:29 <oerjan> `dowg zzo38
03:35:34 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:35:47 <aleph-> oerjan: The hell are you attempting to do?
03:36:46 <oerjan> aleph-: we're just improving HackEgo's change history lookup feature
03:37:12 <aleph-> Without leaving the irc window?
03:37:15 <oerjan> it has a list of vandalism entries that it censors to reduce noise
03:37:25 <aleph-> Ah. Like?
03:37:41 <shachaf> `` paste -sd '|' share/scowrevs
03:37:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/-sd
03:37:49 <shachaf> right
03:37:53 <shachaf> `` /usr/bin/paste -sd '|' share/scowrevs
03:37:54 <HackEgo> 121|122|194|195|196|770|771|1000|1001|1493|1497|2113|2114|3341|3342|3343|4530|4531|5642|5643|5895|5897|9070|9071|9074|9075
03:37:57 <shachaf> Those.
03:38:06 <shachaf> `` hg log -r 121
03:38:12 <HackEgo> changeset: 121:8a04b0258775 \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Mar 22 19:17:38 2012 +0000 \ summary: <elliott> run mv bin test; touch bin
03:38:18 <shachaf> `` hg log -r 194
03:38:24 <HackEgo> changeset: 194:b354fd7abfc7 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Apr 08 00:19:32 2012 +0000 \ summary: <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/*
03:38:29 <shachaf> mea culpa
03:39:05 <oerjan> aleph-: mass deletions like that. easily reverted but leaves noise in the hg repository.
03:42:13 <oerjan> `doag
03:42:17 <HackEgo> 9827:2016-12-02 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//1s,cat[^"]*,/usr/bin/paste -sd\'|\' share/scowrevs), \ 9826:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//s#p#/usr/bin/p# \ 9825:2016-12-02 <oerjän> revert \ 9824:2016-12-02 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,[(][\$],\$(, \ 9823:2016-12-02 <shachäf> mkx bin/hlnp//scowrevs="\$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd\'|\')"; hg
03:48:14 <aleph-> Ahhhh
03:49:21 <oerjan> fungot: say hello to aleph-
03:49:21 <fungot> oerjan: i've been messing around with longjmp that anmaster's asking all sorts of things. --atterbury... new fnord?
03:50:17 <oerjan> ^source
03:50:17 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
03:50:25 <aleph-> Neat
03:58:22 <\oren\> I've updated my font
03:58:44 <\oren\> now includes ಠಥದಧರ
04:02:13 <\oren\> ... except it doesnt?
04:02:19 <\oren\> whyyyyyyy
04:03:14 <izalove> ㉈㉉㉊㉋㉌㉍㉎㉏ 90 is missing?
04:03:29 <\oren\> there is no 90
04:03:39 <izalove> why D:
04:03:46 <\oren\> unicode is retarded
04:05:16 <zzo38> Unicode is at least 101% stupid
04:06:15 <izalove> can you add it as a non standard character?
04:12:31 <zzo38> Please tell me if this explanation of UHS file format is good enough http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/freeuhs.ui/wiki?name=UHS+File+Format
04:14:24 <\oren\> ok, I have no idea why this isn't displaying
04:14:55 <\oren\> test ಠಥದಧರ
04:15:00 <\oren\> WHYYYY
04:16:19 <\oren\> it shows up fine on the web
04:16:23 <shachaf> zzo38: How can it be more than 100%?
04:17:41 <zzo38> Unfortunately it can be.
04:19:15 <\oren\> the fixed öẅë shows up but not the Kannada characters?S?S?S
04:19:19 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
04:19:29 <\oren\> test ಠ
04:21:34 <\oren\> maybe it is doing something based on the language support....
04:21:36 <\oren\> ugh
04:22:09 <\oren\> so I have to add the rest of the Kannada letters if I want this to work
04:23:19 <\oren\> aint nobody got time fo dat
04:23:37 <\oren\> t least not until I finish with Japanese
04:27:51 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x26e3 0x26e7
04:27:52 <HackEgo> ​⛣⛤⛥⛦⛧
04:28:38 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x33de 0x33df
04:28:39 <HackEgo> ​㏞㏟
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04:36:08 <shachaf> `welcome trn
04:36:10 <HackEgo> trn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
05:07:01 <hppavilion[1]> Wheels are trning, shachaf. Wheels are trning.
05:11:10 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I fixed the problem with öẅë by the way
05:12:06 <\oren\> now the diarheses line up
05:22:20 <\oren\> wow, the old german handwriting is even more illegible than Fraktur
05:22:34 <\oren\> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCtterlinschrift#/media/File:S%C3%BCtterlin-Ausgangsschrift.jpg
05:41:36 <zzo38> How to change the default filename when saving a document in Firefox to the filename in the URL rather than the title of the document?
05:41:53 <zzo38> (The title of the document is never what I want to call the saved file.)
06:33:29 <myname> c and e confuse me a lot on that picture
06:33:38 <myname> the rest kinda makes sense
06:34:01 <myname> like how g is just a extended downwards and a is just o with an attached line
06:34:07 <myname> also, h sucks there
06:45:22 <zzo38> If the pokemon game is easy then use these rules: http://s7.zetaboards.com/Nuzlocke_Forum/topic/9278478/1/
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06:52:19 <myname> one of the extra credit guys use nuzlocke rules
06:57:23 <myname> okay, he only uses the first 3 though
06:57:29 <myname> 4 and 5 are hard
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07:40:04 <myname> if i order apples on a scale from sweet to sour and i like it somewhere in the middle, can i consider the spot i like a "sweet spot" even if it is excplicitly not on the sweet only spot?
08:10:35 <Jafet> I think you can only order apples in boxes, not on scales
08:12:06 <Jafet> also, there are sweet sops and sour sops, but none in between
09:32:05 <b_jonas> "wow, the old german handwriting is even more illegible than Fraktur" => duh. handwriting is always less readable than printed, otherwise they'd change the printed types to resemble the handwriting more, to make it more readable
09:32:25 <b_jonas> typesetters do awfully crazy hard work stuff if it comes to making the output look better
09:56:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * L3viathan * New user account
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10:28:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50434&oldid=50382 * L3viathan * (+242)
10:28:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50435 * L3viathan * (+4144) Created page with "'''OIL''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User:L3viathan|L3viathan]] that stands for '''O'''verly '''I'''ntrospective '''L'''anguage. It is turing-machine-li..."
10:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50436&oldid=50435 * L3viathan * (+55) /* Official implementation */
10:30:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50437&oldid=50416 * L3viathan * (+10) /* O */
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11:43:16 <boily> `wisdom
11:43:23 <HackEgo> treaty//The Treaty on `lists treats how to `list our treats.
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12:01:10 <boily> fungot: all in all each man in all men all men in each man.
12:01:11 <fungot> boily: those can be dropped if you know which binding to use more energy than we do, it's definitely a beta tester)). an object structure, as far as the method is very easily expressed recursively :)
12:08:33 <b_jonas> `quote leet"
12:08:33 <HackEgo> 1223) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now.
12:14:32 <boily> b_jellonas. does it snow on Christmas in your corner of the World?
12:19:46 <b_jonas> boily: sometimes it does
12:20:00 <b_jonas> but not most of the time
12:20:40 <b_jonas> if you want guaranteed snow at a predetermined date, you go skiing in the alps, not just stay here and hope for favorable weather
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12:51:39 <b_jonas> `? elrond
12:51:40 <HackEgo> Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves.
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14:05:16 <moony> hi
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15:28:39 <pledis> https://streamable.com/5egh
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16:38:25 <\oren\> `quote
16:38:32 <HackEgo> 1036) <Bike> I'm glad I quit programming to take up listening to numbers stations
16:38:37 <\oren\> `quote
16:38:38 <HackEgo> 493) <Phantom_Hoover> I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed.
16:38:41 <\oren\> `quote
16:38:42 <HackEgo> 78) <ais523> theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along
16:38:46 <\oren\> `quote
16:38:47 <HackEgo> 197) <nddrylliog> are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? <oklofok> nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full
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17:51:22 <Zarutian> `quote
17:51:24 <HackEgo> 1159) <fungot> kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around
17:51:33 <Zarutian> `quote
17:51:33 <HackEgo> 194) <oklopol> oerjan: also actually A(4, 4) is larger than any other integer, i learned this the other day when i was reading about this algo, it had complexity O(n a^-1(n)) = O(n a^-1(4))
17:52:52 <Zarutian> `quote
17:52:53 <HackEgo> 658) <zzo38> When you die in Canada, you die in real life.
17:52:58 <Zarutian> `quote
17:52:59 <HackEgo> 1197) <fizzie> I am in room number 404. <fizzie> I keep not finding it and walking past the door.
17:53:07 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:08 <HackEgo> 765) <mroman> You can't quote me.
17:53:14 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:14 <HackEgo> 1034) <oerjan> this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam.
17:53:30 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:31 <HackEgo> 488) <Phantom_Hoover> FFS, building a perpetual motion machine should not be this hard.
17:53:37 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:38 <HackEgo> 918) <augur> DIE <augur> oh hey elliott
17:53:44 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:44 <HackEgo> 565) <Patashu> that's trippy. how does such a thing evolve? what biological niche is it filling? we need to film a mockumentary on this
17:53:51 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:51 <HackEgo> 458) <elliott> I MIGHT BECOME GHOST
17:53:55 <Zarutian> `quote
17:53:55 <HackEgo> 802) <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX
17:54:01 <Zarutian> `quote
17:54:01 <HackEgo> 221) <ais523> OK, I give up, logging into Wikia is harder than writing a Firefox extension
17:54:08 <int-e> Zarutian: you *do* know that HackEgo replies to PRIVMSG, don't you?
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17:54:53 <augur> oh hey peeps
17:54:58 <augur> whats new in the esolang world
18:04:25 <Zarutian> int-e: yes, it was too silent here.
18:08:19 <\oren\> `qote
18:08:25 <\oren\> `quote
18:08:26 <HackEgo> 890) <Bike> Usually I'd use Rankine, but the fucking weather doesn't support it.
18:08:34 <\oren\> `quote
18:08:34 <HackEgo> 1057) <kmc> Bike: so I'm home now <kmc> i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other
18:08:44 <\oren\> `quote
18:08:44 <HackEgo> 1048) <kmc> 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? <elliott> kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple <elliott> one more element
18:09:02 <shachaf> This is too much spam.
18:09:21 <shachaf> 5 quotes at a time is permitted (though you can get them more compactly with `5)
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18:49:36 <moony> moo
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19:01:43 <\oren\> Trivia! Armin Van Buuren was the first president of the USA to be born in the USA
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19:07:16 <quintopia> hello
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19:15:47 <int-e> `? hue
19:15:48 <HackEgo> hue? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:15:54 <augur> speaking of esoteric computing, i'm building a rod logic computer :)
19:16:10 <izalove> got a video?
19:16:14 <izalove> or pics?
19:16:15 <int-e> I hope hue's been `relcomed
19:16:26 <hue> hi
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19:19:01 <augur> izalove: only of some simple prototypes
19:19:13 <augur> soon i'll be back in SF and I can actually start laser cutting things
19:19:24 <augur> also, importantly, i have money now to spend on personal projects. lol
19:20:14 <int-e> `rainbow can you name the hues of the rainbow?
19:20:14 <HackEgo> can you name the hues of the rainbow?
19:21:50 <izalove> augur: i'd be interested in the simple prototypes as well
19:33:47 <augur> izalove: ok let me dig up my vids :)
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19:34:45 <augur> izalove: here's some pics of the full added i built https://twitter.com/psygnisfive/status/754186779813478400
19:35:45 <augur> izalove: here's the video of the AND gate I built, w/ explanation, and in the replies to that you can find a video of the adder https://twitter.com/psygnisfive/status/754509236340527104
19:37:56 <augur> i wrote a little JS program that will automatically design these gates, too :)
19:38:04 <augur> i need to clean up the code, tho
19:38:19 <augur> and add some better UI stuff, and extend it to do gate stacking
19:39:42 <augur> given a truth table, it'll spit out a monogate design for it in SVG format so you can throw it into a laser cutter and cut it out
19:40:00 <augur> nice streamlined process for manufacturing rod logic computers. lmfao
19:41:08 <augur> I also want to try to build these in silicon. a bunch of people are noisebridge are going to the stanford nanofab facility today as a result of my pestering about chip fab processes :)
19:41:23 <augur> we're going to set up a little fab in noisebridge. not very clean, but still existant!
19:41:36 <augur> DIY semiconductors and MEMS! \o/
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20:23:04 <izalove> augur: thanks!
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21:05:05 <moony> someone made a zip file quine in 2010: http://swtch.com/r.zip
21:07:24 <zzo38> I have seen that
21:07:36 <moony> its really somewhat suprising it works, isnt it?
21:07:42 <moony> at least, it is until its explained
21:08:22 <zzo38> Knowing something about DEFLATE, it doesn't seems too surprising
21:09:40 <shachaf> `dowt canary
21:09:43 <HackEgo> 5293:2015-03-30 <FireFl̈y> ` ln -s canary wisdom/canary; ls -l wisdom/canary \ 5294:2015-03-30 <FireFl̈y> ` rm wisdom/canary; ln -s ../canary wisdom/canary; ls -l wisdom/canary \ 9435:2016-10-26 <oerjän> rm wisdom/canary
21:09:46 <shachaf> oops
21:09:49 <shachaf> `doat canary
21:09:50 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 111:2012-03-19 <ais52̈3> run echo now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely >> canary \ 112:2012-03-19 <ellioẗt> run echo chirp >canary \ 113:2012-03-19 <ais52̈3> run rm canary && mkdir canary \ 114:2012-03-19 <ellioẗt> run echo chirp >canary \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 199:2012-04-
21:10:33 <shachaf> `? shaventions
21:10:34 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
21:10:51 <moony> `spore
21:10:53 <moony> ?
21:10:56 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
21:11:00 <shachaf> that is whoafully out of date
21:11:22 <HackEgo> No output.
21:11:40 <olsner> huh, does shachaf have inventions?
21:11:59 <shachaf> `? olsneventions
21:12:00 <HackEgo> olsneventions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:12:07 <moony> `? moonyventions
21:12:08 <HackEgo> moonyventions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:12:09 <moony> :C
21:12:12 <olsner> I know I haven't invented shit
21:12:18 <olsner> nor anything else
21:12:28 <shachaf> Maybe I'm confusing you with oklopol.
21:12:44 <olsner> `? okolopolitics
21:12:45 <HackEgo> okolopolitics? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:13:00 <shachaf> oklopolice
21:13:18 <olsner> `? oklopolis
21:13:19 <HackEgo> oklopolis? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:13:52 <shachaf> olsner: But I thought you invented alphanumeric poetry?
21:13:53 <olsner> speaking of which, how long since oklo* actually went here?
21:14:08 <moony> out of curiousity...
21:14:11 <olsner> shachaf: I think someone else invented that I invented that
21:14:15 <moony> `fetch http://www.unforgettable.dk/42.zip
21:14:18 <HackEgo> 2016-12-02 21:13:48 URL:http://www.unforgettable.dk/42.zip [42838/42838] -> "42.zip" [1]
21:14:20 * moony is curious
21:14:22 <shachaf> can you not
21:14:31 <moony> :C ok
21:14:37 <moony> `rm 42.zip
21:14:39 <HackEgo> No output.
21:14:57 <shachaf> `quote alphanum
21:14:58 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
21:16:18 <olsner> :D
21:18:00 <ais523> is that a silent #?
21:18:39 <shachaf> Yes.
21:19:48 <shachaf> It's years later and I'm still pleased with that limerick.
21:20:06 <olsner> you should be, that is brilliant work
21:22:36 <shachaf> 09:20:03: <olsner> how do people just pop out limericks like that? I seem to be lacking that skill
21:23:02 <olsner> still am, seeming to, lacking, it
21:25:00 <olsner> ais523: oerjan told me to ask you something about intercal btw
21:25:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:26:42 <shachaf> why is whitespace afraid of intercal?
21:27:30 <int-e> :t intercalate
21:27:31 <lambdabot> [a] -> [[a]] -> [a]
21:27:40 <shachaf> yes
21:27:44 <shachaf> because intercalate " "
21:28:14 <int-e> :t unwords
21:28:16 <lambdabot> [String] -> String
21:28:28 <olsner> oh, whitespace was afraid of intercal, somehow managed to read that backwards
21:28:34 <shachaf> because intercalate " "
21:29:43 <zzo38> {1} Artifact - Fortification ;; Fortified land is a 1/2 artifact creature. ;; Fortify {1}
21:29:46 <zzo38> Do you like this?
21:39:34 <ais523> actually yes, it fixes the main problem with fortifications
21:39:42 <ais523> however I suspect the creature needs better stats
21:39:47 <ais523> I'd me more inclined towards 2/2
21:40:06 <ais523> even then, Wizards wouldn't like something that's cheap and makes lands easily destroyable, but I disagree with them on this
21:43:55 <zzo38> OK then, make 2/2
21:47:18 <shachaf> ais523: Remind me whether there's a double dactyl written with your name yet?
21:47:43 <ais523> shachaf: I'm not aware of one
21:47:54 <shachaf> I mean IRC nick of course.
21:48:09 <shachaf> Maybe the emphasis is wrong.
21:48:32 <shachaf> Why do you disagree with WotC on this?
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21:59:42 <\oren\> `quote
21:59:43 <HackEgo> 1046) <Bike> i can say "no, i mean the WEIRD porn" in over six japonic languages
22:01:43 <olsner> hmm, the trick is that what you're looking for isn't even considered weird in any of them
22:05:49 <\oren\> `quote
22:05:49 <HackEgo> 1196) <MDude> It seems there aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems.
22:05:59 <\oren\> `quote
22:05:59 <HackEgo> 1255) <mroman> I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell . <Taneb> mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell? <Taneb> Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
22:07:45 <\oren\> by the way, I have found that TTF doesn't allow infinite lookahead for ligatures
22:08:30 <olsner> good, would be funfortunate to find a turing complete string rewriting system in TTF
22:09:27 <\oren\> olsner: that's what I was trying to do
22:09:58 <\oren\> ttf requires you to give a number as the maximum lookahead
22:10:00 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:10:19 <\oren\> ... although, I wonder if ttf actually holds you to it
22:10:29 <Zarutian> I am sorry, what is a ligature? some sort of loop or knot?
22:10:47 <pikhq> \oren\: What about OTF? ;)
22:10:54 <\oren\> Zarutian: when two characters get combined
22:11:04 <Zarutian> like æ?
22:11:20 <olsner> lookahead is probably not the most interesting limitation though, I think post systems and such can be very small
22:11:51 <pikhq> Yes, though æ is generally considered a distinct grapheme in languages that use it.
22:11:58 <pikhq> (even though it began life as a ligature)
22:12:36 <\oren\> No like some fonts will automatically diplay the string fi as ﬁ
22:12:45 <olsner> in ttf/otf terms, it would be a ligature if you have a font that merges "a e" into æ
22:13:16 <pikhq> Which would be most appropriate for a font used for Latin.
22:13:30 <pikhq> Particularly medieval Latin.
22:13:59 <Zarutian> pikhq: it latin orthography began as a ligature though it is exists before that as a rune
22:14:49 <pikhq> Its use in transcribing runic languages and in writing Latin are somewhat unconnected, though.
22:15:40 <\oren\> ꜲꜳꜴꜵꜶꜷꜸꜹꜺꜻꜼꜽ
22:15:44 <pikhq> In runic transcription it was transcribing a single glyph, "ᚨ" (æsc)
22:15:55 <\oren\> no idea what language those are from
22:16:43 <\oren\> I think Ꜩꜩ is for german
22:17:49 <\oren\> like plaꜩ
22:18:15 -!- Perenelle has joined.
22:19:50 <pikhq> Huh, while Cirth hasn't been encoded in Unicode, Tolkien's unique runes for transcribing Modern English were.
22:21:06 <Perenelle> Damn
22:43:53 -!- Ox0dea has joined.
22:59:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Golfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50438&oldid=44755 * Sp3000 * (-507)
23:00:43 <Zarutian> say, can anyone here be so kind to explain for me the english word 'reasonable'? It is clearly an adjective of some kind but what is its meaning precisely?
23:01:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Golfish]]": author request: "Edit (Dec 2016): Writing a 2D semi-golfing language didn't turn out very nice since it gradually devolved into predominantly one line programs. I'd still like to see an extension of ><> one day" ... "but this is not it."
23:02:16 <ais523> Zarutian: it means, approximately, "without unlikely/unplausible situations occuring", the meaning sort-of shifts on context
23:02:31 <ais523> "it is reasonable to think that…" means "it would not be stupid/ridiculous to think that…"
23:03:05 <ais523> "be reasonable" means something like "stop having silly ideas, and focus on something more practical"
23:03:14 <Zarutian> I have SEEN and BEEN in unlikely and unplausible situations!
23:03:32 <ais523> Zarutian: yes, it's still not reasonable to allow for them though
23:03:45 <Zarutian> what is unlikely or unplausible is too damn fucking subjective
23:03:52 <int-e> Zarutian: so have I! we have so much in common!!!1
23:04:10 <ais523> "reasonable precautions" are precautions that will deal with any likely situation, but might potentially be defeated by unlikely situations
23:05:25 <fizzie> Reasonable prices are what you put on an ad when the actual price would scare away buyers.
23:05:59 <Zarutian> well, somebody told me that 'reasonable' is a good indicator someone who uttered it is trying to evade themselfs out of some situation where they need to give clear and precise definitions for the terms they are using because those aforesaid terms are not common vernicular nor easily derived logically or analytically
23:06:18 <shachaf> fizzie: hizzie
23:06:36 <shachaf> Do you think putting all a company's code in one repository is a good idea?
23:06:49 <Zarutian> ais523: yeah, "reasonable precautions" get your license to practice permanently suspended in my field of practice
23:07:02 <fizzie> shachaf: I can't answer unless I can think of an answering porthello, sorry.
23:07:18 <shachaf> hachaf?
23:07:18 <\oren\> shachaf: probably not
23:07:27 <ais523> Zarutian: "reasonable" is often not a high enough standard for this reason, in safety-critical fields you sometimes need to take unreasonable precautions too :-)
23:07:30 <shachaf> Do you think doing that, and also not having library versioning etc., just doing everything from master/etc., is viable if you don't have good tests?
23:07:42 <\oren\> shachellof
23:08:07 <fizzie> shachaf: Reasonably viable.
23:08:13 <ais523> the adverb "reasonably" often carries the connotation of "not to an extreme extent"; if a builder said that they'd designed my house to be reasonably stable, I'd be concerned
23:08:19 -!- centrinia has joined.
23:08:36 <Zarutian> ais523: hence my mounting suspiction that it is basically a weasle word for someone to evade with
23:08:54 <ais523> it's more of a weasel word with a fairly specific meaning, but that meaning is inherently weaselly
23:09:49 <fizzie> shachaf: Anyway, just, you know, have a rollback binary, that sort of thing.
23:10:06 <Zarutian> even if it has specific meaning it is still imprecise and most probably inaccurate
23:10:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:10:50 <Zarutian> like "Take the thingy and apply that other thingy to it before bolting it to the other thing"
23:11:27 <fizzie> I was in Paris for Wednesday, and on Thursday woke up having pretty much entirely lost my voice (now it's back); wonder if that's connected somehow.
23:15:49 <shachaf> fizzie: I'm trying to argue for using that sort of system, and people say it won't work because they don't have tests.
23:16:36 <shachaf> And also they don't want to bother keeping things up to date.
23:17:11 -!- Perenelle has quit (Quit: Bye).
23:18:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:20:15 <fizzie> Just appeal to authority.
23:20:23 <shachaf> Which authority?
23:20:31 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:20:44 <izalove> spotus
23:21:20 <shachaf> supreme pooch of the united states?
23:21:29 <izalove> i meant scotus
23:21:32 <izalove> <.<
23:21:37 <izalove> spotus sounded better
23:21:53 <fizzie> What I do is in this sort of arguments (well, usually it's my wife claiming some word I'm using is not a "proper word"), I write a convincing-looking web page and open it as file:/// in my browser.
23:21:59 <fizzie> Admittedly it doesn't usually help much.
23:22:02 <\oren\> recently the local mcdonalds installed large self service touchscreens and reduced the number of registers
23:22:41 <fizzie> I've always found the "POTUS" term somehow ridiculous. Probably because "pottu" is a colloquial Finnish term for a potato.
23:22:45 <\oren\> the minimum wage jobs are being replaced with soulles androids
23:22:52 <Zarutian> \oren\: do those touchscreen have sanitary wipes to use on it before one touches it?
23:23:04 <\oren\> no
23:23:14 <Zarutian> \oren\: "Soulless androids in soulless jobs!"
23:23:45 <Zarutian> perfect fit, no?
23:24:00 <shachaf> fizzie: have you considered using data:text/html, hth
23:24:02 <fizzie> I'll have you know there's a little bit of soul in every Android installation. (That's probably not true.)
23:24:10 <izalove> in 10 years all jobs will be replaced by androids
23:24:25 <shachaf> fizzie: Is it the bit that you sold when you got your job?
23:24:44 <Zarutian> izalove: and who is going to buy the services provided by said androids?
23:25:04 <Zarutian> fizzie: you mean the soul.so file?
23:25:26 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:25:32 <fizzie> shachaf: That would make sense. What else would they do with it?
23:25:57 <\oren\> devour it! #spiritcooking
23:26:47 <shachaf> fizzie: I imagine Calico could put it to good use.
23:27:41 <Zarutian> regarding 'minimum wage', 'living wage' and such. Why do proponents of those often oppose 'citizen salary' (which is basically covers only bear minimum subsitance)
23:28:09 <Zarutian> izalove: not intrested in video, didnt watch. What does it depict?
23:29:12 <fizzie> shachaf: I guess. Probably Deepmind as well.
23:29:25 <fizzie> They're the sort of people I can imagine dabbling in souls.
23:32:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:33:00 <shachaf> Have you moved into your new office yet?
23:33:17 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:34:41 <fizzie> Depends on the definition of "new office". I mean, I moved to one months ago already, some time in the summer or so.
23:35:12 <fizzie> The proper "new office" that Sundar announced the other week he was in London, that we still haven't even started building.
23:37:16 -!- boily has joined.
23:38:08 <fizzie> (Allegedly it's going to be real nice, though.)
23:38:52 <boily> @massages-loud
23:38:52 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
23:39:58 -!- LKoen has joined.
23:47:20 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
2016-12-03
00:14:02 <boily> fungot: do you ever send massages?
00:14:02 <fungot> boily: damn you structural ambiguity!", i think
00:14:11 <boily> fungot: no, a massage is structurally sound hth
00:14:11 <fungot> boily: you're just a zealot incapable of having an in-numbers? ( lambda ( x)
00:14:30 <boily> fungot: By His Noodly Appendage, I ain't no zealot, you heretic!
00:14:30 <fungot> boily: and there's no automatic fnord, i was gonna submit a srfi too, but it's
00:15:06 <boily> fungot: srfi: Subversive Radiophonic Fnord Integration?
00:20:23 <zzo38> There might be use for some unofficial node types in FreeUHS, with names having "x-" at front. One thing I thought is a thing similar to the "incentive" type but dynamic; which nodes are hidden/locked can be controlled by the game.
00:21:34 <zzo38> Does it make any sense to you? Do you have other idea?
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00:38:31 * Zarutian is reading https://theintercept.com/2016/12/01/expanded-federal-hacking-authority-goes-into-effect-despite-last-minute-efforts-in-senate/
00:40:34 <zzo38> This would require the hint system to be linked with the game though. Another way for a hint system which is not linked with the game can be for the game to provide a "hint reference code", which is entered into the hint viewer in order to access a hidden hint menu. Hint reference codes can be provided even if there is no UHS file for this game; the UHS can be provided later, and these hint reference codes can possibly even be used with stuff that
00:41:50 <Zarutian> hmm... anyone up for co authoring an Binding International Arbitration Contract Notice, telling both the USA FBI and USA DOJ that any 'equipment interference' or access gained by means not authorized by the sending party to sending party's equipment, accounts or such is equivlent to them accepting the IAC.
00:42:21 <zzo38> I do not live in United States and have no authority to do such a thing
00:42:42 <Zarutian> zzo38: I said co authoring not issuing
00:43:05 <zzo38> O, OK. Even then, I do not know how.
00:43:46 <Zarutian> basically constructing an EULA-esque mousetrap for them.
00:44:55 <zzo38> OK, do that if you know how, but I don't know how.
00:46:34 <oerjan> that reminds me of https://xkcd.com/538/. as in, it's about as naive as the first panel.
00:47:14 <oerjan> except trying to hack law instead, which probably works even worse.
00:49:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50439&oldid=50340 * 0x0dea * (+1785) Added Whitespace interpreter in LOLCODE
00:49:45 <Zarutian> oerjan: so you are suggesting at the end of it, it should state: This IACN is as legal as your so called 'Rule 41'.
00:50:21 <oerjan> Zarutian: i was assuming you were suggesting this with some kind of illusion that would in any sense "work".
00:50:25 <Ox0dea> oerjan: Sorry for only just getting around to that.
00:51:07 <oerjan> Ox0dea: no problem, i was going to do that refactoring eventually anyway.
00:51:13 <Ox0dea> Fair enough.
00:51:18 <Zarutian> oerjan: it """works""" in the same sense that EULAs """work"""
00:51:37 <Zarutian> (they dont. Not at all)
00:51:44 <boily> there's a rule 41?
00:52:39 <oerjan> `? nuff
00:52:46 <HackEgo> nuff? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:53:10 <oerjan> `learn Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this.
00:53:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'nuff': Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this.
00:54:02 <Zarutian> oerjan: or should I rather send them an warning that any such malware they produce will be analysed and any CoC servers it contacts DDOSed of the net? (Like it is done with CoC of botnets in places where the 'authorities' are too corrupt to care)
00:54:46 <boily> . o O ( snuff is to nuff what scow is to cow... )
00:55:27 <oerjan> Zarutian: i'm just saying there is no point in posing like this.
00:56:00 <Zarutian> oerjan: just go straight to the malware analysis and DDOSing then?
00:56:06 <oerjan> Fairy snuff would indeed be pretty scow.
00:57:00 <oerjan> Zarutian: i think that's still posing when the target is a powerful government. except more likely to be harmful to yourself.
00:58:20 <zzo38> Write such note anonymously and sent to newspaper to publish.
00:59:52 <Zarutian> oerjan: the 'agents' arent 'powerful government'. Their actions are their own. And actions do have consequences for whoever performs them.
01:00:54 <boily> how many weeks since the last oots?
01:00:57 <Zarutian> oerjan: one of which is rescindment of credibility of their signitures.
01:02:54 <oerjan> well ok then
01:23:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:40:59 <ais523> esoserious problem I'm having: is the bookworm character used by INTERCAL best represented in Unicode as ∀ (for all) or Ɐ (which actually is an upside-down A, as opposed to merely looking like one)?
01:41:47 <oerjan> what does it mean again
01:42:11 <ais523> xor
01:42:17 <oerjan> i take it it's V overstriked with -
01:42:24 <ais523> yes
01:42:59 <boily> his523. I believe forall is better.
01:44:21 <ais523> OK, thanks
01:44:40 <oerjan> `unicode XOR
01:44:40 <HackEgo> ​⊻
01:44:43 <ais523> I didn't realise there were two identical-looking (in all the fonts I've seen them in) bookworms in Unicode until I tried to shapecatcher it
01:45:38 <boily> oerjan: that's not a XOR, that's a wormbook hth.
01:45:55 <oerjan> OH
01:46:37 <oerjan> i suppose it's not too good that the worm is missing
01:46:46 <oerjan> (missing the book, that is)
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02:02:51 <oerjan> ais523: did you see my O(log n) improvements. admittedly they're probably still not very optimal for constant factors...
02:03:32 <oerjan> *?
02:03:45 <ais523> oerjan: I'm missing context, so I'm guessing no
02:03:54 <oerjan> on the Incident talk page
02:04:18 <ais523> ah, no
02:04:26 <ais523> I'm glad it's possible though
02:05:18 <ais523> ooh, base fibonacci
02:05:33 <oerjan> it seemed the easiest way to keep it 01 based
02:05:56 <oerjan> although it's easy enough to adapt to other bases, as mentioned later
02:06:11 <ais523> also, that filler is amazing
02:06:33 <oerjan> i simplified it a bit later by using overlap rejection
02:08:42 <ais523> I don't think the problem of "good Incident filler" will be fixed until we find filler that doesn't need to embed the tokens themselves though
02:08:55 <ais523> and that has a reasonable length
02:09:02 <oerjan> heh
02:09:19 <ais523> my simulated annealing filler program can normally fill length-2 tokens using just three filler characters distinct from those in the tokens, within a minute or so of runtime
02:10:30 <ais523> I assume that using length-3 tokens would make filling harder, and possibly require a larger alphabet of filler characters
02:10:44 <ais523> and when your tokens get long enough, perhaps the filler needs to be multiple characters too
02:15:23 <oerjan> hm maybe you can see this as a graph problem, with an edge from each token to the other tokens that may follow it
02:15:51 <oerjan> three except for the one that's last in the program
02:16:46 <ais523> right, you only have to consider the tokens pairwise because if a combination of three tokens were relevant, you'd definitely have an overlap somewhere
02:20:30 <oerjan> the delimiters neighboring a token should be unique for each occurrence, that takes care of all strings containing a whole token
02:20:48 <oerjan> *for each occurrence of that token
02:22:19 <oerjan> you could perhaps use nine delimiters to simply encode the occurrence numbers of their neighbors.
02:23:14 <oerjan> (now i'm assuming we're using a reasonably large character set)
02:23:57 <oerjan> but then there still remains preventing repetition of substrings not containing a whole token
02:24:08 <oerjan> *triple repetition
02:26:22 <oerjan> ...that may not be the easiest thing to solve.
02:30:53 <ais523> right, the most common accidental tokens (I call these "incidents" in the docs, just because I can) involve a delimeter plus half a token
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A698 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DOUBLE O [Ꚙ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O [ꚙ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A69A CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER CROSSED O [Ꚛ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A69B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER CROSSED O [ꚛ]
02:37:11 <shachaf> new cyrillic O letters in unicode hth
02:37:33 <oerjan> but no DOUBLE-CROSSED? scow.
02:37:52 <shachaf>
02:40:12 <oerjan> `unicode DOUBLE CROSS
02:40:17 <HackEgo> No output.
02:41:56 <shachaf> not new enough hth
02:42:01 <shachaf> `ls share
02:42:02 <HackEgo> 8ballreplies \ airports.dat \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ candide \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ headers \ headers.gch \ hello \ lua \ maimer \ maimery \ maze \ mtg \ nothp \ recipe \ scapegoats \ scowrevs \ sedtest \ UnicodeData.txt \ units.dat \ usercm
02:42:17 <shachaf> `fetch ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt
02:42:22 <HackEgo> 2016-12-03 02:41:51 URL: ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt [1686443] -> "UnicodeData.txt" [1]
02:42:29 <shachaf> `mv UnicodeData.txt share/
02:42:30 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `UnicodeData.txt share/' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
02:42:37 <shachaf> drat and double drat
02:42:39 <shachaf> `` mv UnicodeData.txt share/
02:42:41 <HackEgo> No output.
02:42:58 <oerjan> `unicode DOUBLE CROSS
02:42:59 <HackEgo> No output.
02:43:07 <oerjan> LIES
02:43:41 <oerjan> `unidecode ⛵
02:43:42 <HackEgo> ​[U+26F5 SAILBOAT]
02:44:26 <oerjan> `unicode DOUBLE O
02:44:27 <HackEgo> U+033F COMBINING DOUBLE OVERLINE \ UTF-8: cc bf UTF-16BE: 033f Decimal: &#831; \ ̿ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \ U+1AB8 COMBINING DOUBLE OPEN MARK BELOW \ UTF-8: e1 aa b8 UTF-16BE: 1ab8 Decimal: &#6840; \ ᪸ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \
02:44:35 -!- FreeFull has joined.
02:44:55 <oerjan> `unicode LETTER DOUBLE O
02:44:57 <HackEgo> U+A698 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DOUBLE O \ UTF-8: ea 9a 98 UTF-16BE: a698 Decimal: &#42648; \ Ꚙ (ꚙ) \ Lowercase: U+A699 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O \ UTF-8: ea 9a 99 UTF-16BE: a699 Decimal: &#42649; \ ꚙ (Ꚙ) \ Uppercase: U+A698 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \
02:45:55 <shachaf> Oh, you were searching for something that wasn't even in there.
02:50:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TOMB CHICKEN).
02:51:18 <oerjan> boily's quit messages are becoming more grave
03:13:06 <oerjan> `grwp piggle
03:13:12 <HackEgo> hppavilion1:higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed \ Binary file reflection matches
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03:15:17 <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:15:32 <oerjan> hth.
03:15:45 <ais523> well, I imagine it helped someone :-D
03:19:16 <shachaf> someone in the past, perhaps
03:20:13 <shachaf> If Lobachevsky's name fit the pattern, it would go well with "Minskily Pinskily"
03:20:21 <shachaf> `doag quotes
03:20:23 <HackEgo> 9699:2016-11-16 <ais52̈3> addquote <shachaf> ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it\'s for when people think they\'re being funny, rather than when other people think they\'re funny. \ 9643:2016-11-07 <oerjän> addquote <hppavilion[1]> I\'m waiting for the sequels to Gravity to come out: Electromagnetism and t
03:20:44 <shachaf> `addquote <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:20:47 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:20:48 <shachaf> Calling?
03:21:07 <oerjan> is that the wrong word?
03:23:18 <shachaf> Maybe it's Nynorsk English and not American English.
03:24:10 <oerjan> ...i guess i should have used hail.
03:25:16 <shachaf> `sedlast 1299s/call/hail/
03:25:16 <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:25:18 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
03:25:26 <ais523> hailing is better I think
03:25:29 <shachaf> good thing you said it at the last moment there
03:25:37 <shachaf> otherwise i'd've been misquoting you
03:25:48 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a time travel quote
03:25:54 <shachaf> true enough
03:25:57 <ais523> oerjan retroactively unmisquoted himself
03:26:00 <shachaf> i,i temporarily misquoting
03:26:07 <shachaf> i,i temporally misquoting
03:26:32 <shachaf> `quote Munsk
03:26:35 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:26:59 <shachaf> Hmm, how about adding a command on the third-to-last line?
03:27:16 <shachaf> A comma
03:27:30 <shachaf> Also on the second line.
03:27:33 <shachaf> And the first line.
03:27:39 <ais523> the slashes work as commas
03:27:42 <shachaf> This reminds me of a double dactyl.
03:27:47 <ais523> newline is a punctuation mark on IRC, after all
03:28:46 <shachaf> Higgledy-piggledy / Emily Dickinson / Liked to use dashes / Instead of full stops. // Nowadays, faced with such / Idiosyncracy / Critics and editors / Send for the cops.
03:34:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:45:45 <oerjan> i had commas initially, that was one of the things i was checking the hppavilion one for
03:46:03 <oerjan> oh wait
03:46:23 <oerjan> it was the period. oh wait.
03:46:30 <shachaf> were you going by my example?
03:46:49 * oerjan sdrawkcab gnihtyreve seod
03:47:27 <shachaf> That one wasn't even a good one.
03:47:32 <shachaf> I've written good ones in here before, I think.
03:47:36 <shachaf> Or maybe it was another channel.
03:48:52 <oerjan> oh well.
03:49:16 <oerjan> shachaf: i was only checking it for formatting hth
03:49:32 <shachaf> and even that didn't work out hth
03:49:36 <oerjan> fancy
03:49:45 <shachaf> or maybe it did
03:49:53 <shachaf> and i should stop being scow about it
03:49:55 <shachaf> wth
03:51:19 <oerjan> oc
03:51:38 <shachaf> Apparently profunctor optics are what it takes to be proficient at functional programming nowadays.
03:51:44 <oerjan> `grwp /
03:51:45 <HackEgo> ​☃:Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. \ evilipse:evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R \ ha:Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé e
03:52:13 <oerjan> i seem to like not using commas
03:52:18 <shachaf> That's fine.
03:52:26 <shachaf> There are no wisdomfmt rules.
03:53:22 <oerjan> `quote /
03:53:23 <HackEgo> 428) <monqy> beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 476) <monqy> i am out of all the fame loops <monqy> and the australien soap opera loops <monqy> so much loop / s omcuh \ 1028) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone \ 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thoug
03:54:04 <oerjan> `2 quote " / "
03:54:06 <HackEgo> 2/3:in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." \ 1258) <mauris> MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW \ 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity
03:54:39 <oerjan> a sublime poetry collection
03:54:47 <oerjan> now food ->
03:54:49 <ais523> is there a `3 as well? if so, how far do the numbers go?
03:54:57 <ais523> or do we generate them automatically
03:54:59 <shachaf> There are `1 and `2
03:55:02 <ais523> (idea: using `n generates a command for `n+1)
03:55:08 <shachaf> `spam
03:55:09 <HackEgo> 3/3: / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:55:15 <ais523> (thus if used as intended we never run out)
03:55:33 <shachaf> Well, the only reason `2 exists is if you forgot to use `1
03:55:43 <shachaf> Otherwise you can use `spam n to see the nth line of output of the previous command.
03:55:54 <shachaf> nth IRC line, I mean. Not line line.
03:56:06 <ais523> oh, I see, `1 sets up for `spam, and `2 retroactively `1s the last message
03:56:06 <ais523> but you have to tell it what it was because HackEgo isn't stateful unless you tell it to be
03:56:33 <shachaf> Right.
03:56:38 <shachaf> We could replace `` with `1
03:56:49 <shachaf> But that has drawbacks.
03:57:30 <ais523> yes, useless commits for every command that doesn't overspam
03:57:44 <ais523> another possibility is to commit only if the command generates multiple IRC lines of output
03:57:47 <shachaf> No, spam doesn't commit.
03:57:57 <ais523> oh, it uses tempfiles?
03:58:11 <shachaf> /tmp doesn't persist across HackEgo invocations.
03:58:18 <shachaf> But /hackenv/tmp is in .hgignore
04:00:36 <ais523> now I'm wondering what happens if you put .hgignore in itself
04:00:46 <ais523> would the change not be saved? or would it be impossible to revert?
04:01:05 <shachaf> hg checks .hgignore on commit
04:01:09 <ais523> I guess it'd revert because the .hgignore would be versioned in the revision you're reverting /to/…
04:01:54 <shachaf> No, it wouldn't be reverted. It would just not be recorded.
04:02:05 <shachaf> One trick you can do is putting a wildcard in .hgignore that ignores everything.
04:02:53 <shachaf> I think the effect of that is that all changes until the wildcard is removed aren't committed.
04:03:17 <shachaf> Wait, maybe I'm thinking of the other case, where you put canary in .hgignore and delete it.
04:03:23 <shachaf> There were too many cases, I can't remember.
04:03:24 <ais523> wouldn't that change to .hgignore itself not be commited?
04:03:31 <shachaf> The point is, we figured out how to delete canary.
04:03:38 <shachaf> (But not how to commit it.)
04:03:39 <ais523> I like the idea of ignoring the canary, though
04:03:45 <ais523> it still wouldn't be a /proper/ deletion of the canary though, would it?
04:03:49 <shachaf> `cat .hgignore
04:03:50 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/
04:03:56 <ais523> would a revert restore it?
04:04:01 <shachaf> `` echo '^canary' >> .hgignore
04:04:04 <HackEgo> No output.
04:04:05 <shachaf> `rm canary
04:04:07 <HackEgo> No output.
04:04:08 <shachaf> `file canary
04:04:11 <HackEgo> canary: ASCII text
04:04:15 <shachaf> Hmm.
04:04:19 <shachaf> `cat canary
04:04:19 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
04:04:28 <ais523> race condition?
04:04:30 <shachaf> `` grep '' canary
04:04:31 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
04:04:43 <ais523> cat?
04:04:46 <shachaf> `xxd canary
04:04:47 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6361 743a 2063 616e 6172 793a 204e 6f20 cat: canary: No \ 0000010: 7375 6368 2066 696c 6520 6f72 2064 6972 such file or dir \ 0000020: 6563 746f 7279 0a ectory.
04:05:02 <ais523> oh, that message is actually the contents of canary
04:05:06 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:05:06 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ ^canary
04:05:25 <shachaf> `sled .hgignore//2s,.,,
04:05:26 <ais523> `revert
04:05:27 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/ \ canary
04:05:31 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:05:33 <shachaf> oops
04:05:39 <ais523> err, hmm, I think I raceconditioned your revert
04:05:43 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:05:44 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ ^canary
04:05:47 <ais523> yes
04:05:49 <ais523> `revert
04:05:51 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:05:58 <shachaf> `cat .hgignore
04:05:59 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ canary
04:05:59 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:06:00 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ canary
04:06:03 <shachaf> `rm canary
04:06:05 <HackEgo> No output.
04:06:07 <shachaf> `file canary
04:06:09 <HackEgo> canary: ASCII text
04:06:15 <shachaf> Hmm, how did we remove canary back then?
04:06:44 <ais523> I know I tried to replace it with a symlink to itself once, but I don't think that worked
04:06:49 <ais523> `ln -sf canary canary
04:06:50 <HackEgo> ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information.
04:06:54 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary
04:06:57 <HackEgo> ln: `canary' and `canary' are the same file
04:07:09 <shachaf> `slwd .hgignore//2s#.*#.*#
04:07:10 <HackEgo> Roswbud!
04:07:13 <ais523> …and why would ln care about that?
04:07:16 <shachaf> `sled .hgignore//2s#.*#.*#
04:07:18 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/ \ .*
04:07:28 <shachaf> `rm canary
04:07:31 <HackEgo> No output.
04:07:34 <shachaf> `file canary
04:07:36 <HackEgo> canary: ASCII text
04:07:50 <ais523> `sled .hgignore//2,d
04:07:51 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 3: unexpected `,'
04:07:57 <ais523> `sled .hgignore//2,\$d
04:07:59 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/
04:10:18 <shachaf> ?
04:11:24 <shachaf> `` echo ^canary/ >> .hgignore
04:11:26 <HackEgo> No output.
04:11:35 <shachaf> `` rm -rf canary; mkdir canary
04:11:37 <HackEgo> No output.
04:11:42 <shachaf> `` file canary
04:11:43 <HackEgo> canary: directory
04:11:46 <shachaf> `` rmdir canary
04:11:47 <HackEgo> No output.
04:11:49 <shachaf> `file canary
04:11:50 <HackEgo> canary: ERROR: cannot open `canary' (No such file or directory)
04:11:58 <shachaf> `` ls -l canary
04:11:59 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
04:12:04 <shachaf> There we go.
04:12:29 <shachaf> Now all commits will fail.
04:17:31 <ais523> apart from commits that create canary, presumably?
04:17:41 <ais523> `` echo test | tee test
04:17:43 <HackEgo> test
04:17:46 <ais523> `cat test
04:17:47 <HackEgo> cat: test: No such file or directory
04:17:58 <shachaf> Well, creating canary won't be a commit, because it's ignored.
04:18:14 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:18:15 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ ^canary/
04:18:28 <ais523> hmm
04:18:38 <ais523> `` sed -i '2,\$d' .hgignore; touch canary
04:18:40 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/
04:18:44 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:18:45 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/
04:18:58 <ais523> looks like it is possible after all :-)
04:19:19 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary-tmp; mv canary-tmp canary
04:19:20 <HackEgo> mv: `canary-tmp' and `canary' are the same file
04:19:38 <ais523> `file canary-tmp
04:19:39 <HackEgo> canary-tmp: symbolic link to `canary'
04:20:01 <ais523> `mv -f canary-tmp canary
04:20:01 <HackEgo> mv: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
04:20:05 <ais523> `` mv -f canary-tmp canary
04:20:06 <HackEgo> mv: `canary-tmp' and `canary' are the same file
04:21:10 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary-tmp2
04:21:12 <HackEgo> No output.
04:21:19 <ais523> `` mv canary-tmp2 canary-tmp
04:21:21 <HackEgo> No output.
04:21:37 <ais523> oh, so it allows /that/, but doesn't allow renaming a symlink over the file it's a symlink too?
04:21:49 <ais523> `` ln -sf ../canary tmp/canary-tmp3
04:21:50 <HackEgo> No output.
04:22:04 <ais523> `cat tmp/canary-tmp3
04:22:05 <HackEgo> No output.
04:22:19 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp3 canary
04:22:20 <HackEgo> mv: `tmp/canary-tmp3' and `canary' are the same file
04:22:27 <ais523> but after the rename, they wouldn't be!
04:22:38 <ais523> `rm tmp/canary-tmp3
04:22:38 <HackEgo> No output.
04:22:46 <ais523> (I tried to tab-complete that; it didn't work)
04:22:51 <ais523> `` ls -l canary*
04:22:52 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:18 canary \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:20 canary-tmp -> canary
04:23:35 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp4
04:23:36 <HackEgo> No output.
04:23:44 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp4 canary
04:23:47 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp4': No such file or directory
04:24:05 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary*
04:24:06 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary*: No such file or directory
04:24:14 <ais523> ??
04:24:25 <ais523> `` ls -l canary*
04:24:26 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:23 canary \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:20 canary-tmp -> canary
04:24:49 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary tmp/canary-tmp4; ls -l tmp/canary*
04:24:50 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:24 tmp/canary-tmp4 -> canary
04:24:58 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp4 canary
04:25:00 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp4': No such file or directory
04:25:01 <shachaf> ais523: What's possible after all?
04:25:19 <ais523> shachaf: committing into your system that doesn't allow commits
04:25:39 <shachaf> I think what I said was that it doesn't allow commits as long as that file doesn't exist.
04:25:42 <shachaf> Or that's what I meant.
04:25:55 <ais523> although I don't seem to be able to create tmp/canary-tmp4 and have it persist, for some reason
04:25:56 <shachaf> But creating the file isn't a commit in itself, because it's ignored.
04:26:08 <ais523> which is bizarre, as tmp/canary-tmp3 worked fine
04:26:18 <shachaf> Oh, right. The mv trick.
04:26:25 <ais523> `` mv canary-tmp tmp
04:26:27 <HackEgo> No output.
04:26:34 <ais523> `` cat tmp/canary-tmp
04:26:35 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:26:46 <shachaf> `` echo hi > tmp/test
04:26:46 <ais523> `` cat canary-tmp
04:26:47 <HackEgo> No output.
04:26:47 <HackEgo> cat: canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:26:51 <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test .
04:26:53 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:26:53 <ais523> aha, I think I know what's happening
04:26:56 <shachaf> `` ls -l test tmp/test
04:26:57 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:27:05 <ais523> broken symlinks get deleted from the filesystem
04:27:08 <ais523> `` touch tmp/canary
04:27:08 <HackEgo> No output.
04:27:11 <shachaf> It's pretty, what's the word oerjan uses?
04:27:18 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:19 <shachaf> fiendish
04:27:19 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `tmp/canary-tmp': File exists
04:27:31 <ais523> `` ll tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:35 <shachaf> Did you see the tmp/ thing I did above? It's not related to links.
04:27:36 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:37 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:25 tmp/canary-tmp -> canary
04:27:42 <shachaf> (Or to canary.)
04:27:57 <ais523> I don't think so
04:28:02 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:28:04 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp': No such file or directory
04:28:13 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary-tmp
04:28:14 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:28:24 <shachaf> Here:
04:28:26 <ais523> ????
04:28:29 <shachaf> `` ls -l test tmp/test
04:28:30 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:28:32 <shachaf> `` echo hi > tmp/test
04:28:34 <HackEgo> No output.
04:28:38 <shachaf> `cat tmp/test
04:28:38 <HackEgo> hi
04:28:42 <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test .
04:28:44 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:28:46 <shachaf> `` ls -l test tmp/test
04:28:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:28:48 <shachaf> hth
04:29:01 <ais523> `` ls -ld tmp
04:29:02 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Dec 3 04:28 tmp
04:29:26 <shachaf> This tricks people who try to make a big file in one commit by writing into tmp/ in a few commands and then moving it.
04:29:30 <shachaf> It's just gone.
04:29:48 <ais523> does tmp get cleared whenever you write to outside tmp, then?
04:29:52 <ais523> it doesn't seem to get cleared instantly
04:30:01 <ais523> `` ls -l canary tmp/canary-tmp; mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:30:02 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory \ mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp': No such file or directory \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:27 canary
04:30:10 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp; mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:30:11 <HackEgo> No output.
04:30:17 <ais523> `` ls -l canary
04:30:19 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:29 canary
04:30:28 <shachaf> tmp/ isn't getting cleared.
04:30:30 <shachaf> `ls tmp
04:30:31 <HackEgo> canary \ spline \ spout
04:30:37 <ais523> I guess making the canary a symlink isn't getting committed
04:31:18 <ais523> but I'm not sure what's causing, say, mv to fail to find files in tmp
04:31:20 <ais523> unless mv is not /bin/mb
04:31:23 <ais523> */bin/mv
04:31:27 <ais523> `` which mv
04:31:28 <HackEgo> ​/bin/mv
04:32:01 <shachaf> mv is mv
04:32:19 <shachaf> `` echo hi; echo hi > test
04:32:21 <HackEgo> hi
04:32:34 <shachaf> `` echo hi >&2; echo huh > test
04:32:36 <HackEgo> hi
04:32:47 <ais523> <shachaf> `cat tmp/test <HackEgo> hi <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test . <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:32:49 <shachaf> I don't remember the details anymore.
04:32:52 <shachaf> `rm test
04:32:54 <HackEgo> No output.
04:32:55 <ais523> this is probably the best example/counterexample
04:32:58 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
04:33:00 <shachaf> I know what's happening, though.
04:33:11 <ais523> oh, the fact that HackEgo runs each command twice
04:33:18 <ais523> once for side effects, once for the output
04:33:28 <ais523> if I call mv, the file's already moved by the time it goes to run it for the output
04:33:30 <shachaf> That's not quite right.
04:33:32 <ais523> and so it doesn't find it the second time
04:33:45 <shachaf> It runs it once, and then if the repository changes, it reverts to a clean state and runs it again.
04:33:52 <shachaf> While not allowing other commands in parallel.
04:33:55 <shachaf> To avoid race conditions.
04:34:10 <shachaf> But the revert doesn't restore the file in tmp/, because it's ignored.
04:34:18 <shachaf> And it does delete the destination file.
04:34:20 <ais523> right, so the file just vanishes altogether
04:34:24 <shachaf> Yes.
04:40:44 <shachaf> `` ls canary* tmp/canary*
04:40:45 <HackEgo> canary \ tmp/canary
04:40:50 <shachaf> `` rm tmp/canary
04:40:50 <HackEgo> No output.
04:40:53 <shachaf> `cat .hgignore
04:40:53 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/
04:41:15 <shachaf> I wish we could get to tmp/ via the HTTP server.
04:41:20 <shachaf> I don't like pastes being committed to hg.
06:17:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
06:37:17 <zzo38> How could collaborative quiz writing with Internet Quiz Engine work?
06:37:38 <shachaf> How does regular quiz writing work?
06:39:10 <zzo38> It is simply a text file. The format would be the same in this case, I would just to see how collaborative quiz writing might be done
06:39:33 <shachaf> Use a collaborative text editor like Etherpad or Gobby to edit the text file together?
06:40:57 <zzo38> Maybe for real time collaboration (if that is what it does), but maybe there is other ways I don't know
06:41:20 <zzo38> Actually I think there are different things which can be wanted, such as real time collaboration or not real time
06:41:36 <shachaf> Real time is better than not real time.
06:48:04 <zzo38> I suppose one way might be to make discussion on IRC for various people to suggest questions and one person to write them into one file, but another way might be for anyone to edit the file as a wiki, although there still may be some issues involved with such thing specifically with Internet Quiz Engine or with quiz files for other systems too just in general.
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07:00:55 <shachaf> `5 w
07:01:06 <HackEgo> 1/2:the u//The U are a very mad people. \ phantom____________________hoover//<span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span> \ physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English. \ nooga//no. \ dragon//Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. T
07:01:28 <shachaf> `spam
07:01:28 <HackEgo> 2/2:aneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
07:01:36 <shachaf> `` type n
07:01:46 <shachaf> `` ln -s spam bin/n
07:01:49 <HackEgo> No output.
07:02:02 <shachaf> `n 2
07:02:03 <HackEgo> 2/2:aneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
07:02:12 <shachaf> `cwlprits dragon
07:02:15 <HackEgo> oerjän
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08:06:12 <hppavilion[1]> `? members
08:06:29 <HackEgo> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
08:07:23 <zzo38> I found that the uncompressed size of FreeUHS is smaller than the compressed size of OpenUHS (not counting the stuff under the javadoc/ directory). Even though, FreeUHS also includes such feature as regular expression search, toggle 88a mode, a compiler, and some other features.
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08:09:34 <hppavilion[1]> `? regulars
08:09:35 <HackEgo> regulars? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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13:43:12 <boily> fungot: nostril.
13:43:22 <boily> fungot: I said nostril.
13:43:32 <boily> fungot: the nostril was said.
13:45:50 <fizzie> fungot: What have you got against nostrils?
13:45:50 <fungot> fizzie: i fnord accept the account in wikipedia as the one over there...
13:45:57 <myname> nostril no thrill
13:56:42 <boily> what's a stril?
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14:05:53 <Ox0dea> A coistril was something akin to a squire once.
14:06:00 <Ox0dea> Bonus points for being anagrammatical with "clitoris".
14:06:52 <Ox0dea> And "testril" is apparently an archaic synonym for "tester".
14:06:57 <Ox0dea> These are all the strils I know.
14:07:52 <fizzie> WordNet knows about Zestril.
14:07:54 <fizzie> @wn zestril
14:07:56 <lambdabot> *** "zestril" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
14:07:56 <lambdabot> Zestril
14:07:56 <lambdabot> n 1: an ACE inhibiting drug (trade names Prinival or Zestril)
14:07:56 <lambdabot> administered as an antihypertensive and after heart attacks
14:07:56 <lambdabot> [syn: {lisinopril}, {Prinival}, {Zestril}]
14:08:11 <Ox0dea> Proper nouns are verboten.
14:08:15 <fizzie> Zestril and nostril are the two stril nouns it knows.
14:08:33 <Ox0dea> I got my fancy ones from words-insane.
14:11:13 <boily> I'll try to use “testril” with my teammates. mwah ah ah.
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18:21:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50440&oldid=50437 * Slnetaiga * (+12) Added LAMPA
18:22:44 <Zarutian> one the topic of noise, why is there so much of it in todays world?
18:23:23 <Zarutian> an I am talking about audio noise made by thoughtlessness or brusequeness
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18:34:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LAMPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50441 * Slnetaiga * (+1096) Initial
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18:35:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50442&oldid=50415 * Slnetaiga * (+26)
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19:08:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * John Cena 237894728 * New user account
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19:54:01 <Taneb> I finally uploaded my COMPLEX implementation
19:54:01 <Taneb> https://github.com/Taneb/COMPLEX
19:59:12 <boily> Tanelle. dig the file extension ^^
20:02:12 <Taneb> :D
20:02:42 <ybden> haha
20:04:42 <trout> boily lol
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20:24:31 <Kaynato> Someone's been trying to make a non-trivial quine in Daoyu and I don't know if I should tell them to stop
20:25:13 <Kaynato> Is there a way to prove a non-empty quine nonexistent in a specific language?
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21:11:05 <FreeFull> Is there any programming language that literally has programmable semicolons?
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21:23:48 <zzo38> How do you meant?
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21:36:30 <FreeFull> zzo38: One "analogy" for monads in haskell is programmable semicolons
21:36:41 <FreeFull> But I'm thinking about something more literal
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21:42:42 <zzo38> I don't know, but still it is difficult for me to figure out what is meant exactly
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22:07:03 <FreeFull> zzo38: At each semicolon, some extra code runs and decides what to do with that line
22:08:32 <zzo38> Ah, OK
22:09:04 <zzo38> I don't know of any such thing, nor does that really make much sense to me anyways exactly as is
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22:15:43 <FreeFull> Yeah, they don't
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23:06:26 <izalove> midnight spaghetti, anyone?
23:06:45 <izalove> \o/ come here
23:07:34 <Taneb> I think you may be a bit far away
23:07:39 <Taneb> Unless you are in, like, York
23:08:21 <izalove> maybe you're fast
23:08:22 <izalove> idk
23:08:40 <Taneb> I'll do my best
23:09:42 <shachaf> I made midnight spaghetti recently.
23:09:51 <shachaf> @time Taneb
23:09:51 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Sat Dec 03 23:09:44
23:10:09 <shachaf> Is Italian spaghetti better than the kind I bought at the store?
23:11:11 <izalove> i hope so because i bought expensive ones
23:11:23 <ybden> shachaf: Did you buy it at a store in Italy?
23:11:55 <Taneb> shachaf, I have not had Italian spaghetti in like 3 months
23:12:35 <Taneb> Although that was in Sudtirol, so it may not count
23:13:10 <shachaf> ybden: No.
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23:52:21 <FireFly> Taneb: hm, York is pretty far away from Bristol, isn't it
23:53:19 <mad> gripe of the day:
23:53:37 <mad> x86 division is wrong in, like, 4 different ways at the same time
23:56:19 <zzo38> What ways is that?
23:56:42 <mad> zero division exceptions are bad and actually make the cpu slower
23:56:44 <impomatic_> I want to visit York soon for the retro games shop!
23:57:00 <mad> -1 / 2 gives 0. that's bad and irl it should give -1
23:57:59 <mad> also it generates multiple results - division result in one register and remainder in another. multiple result instructions are bad
23:58:12 <izalove> why
23:58:30 <mad> also some of the registers you use are fixed and that's also bad
23:58:32 <izalove> returning only one would mean to throw away information
23:58:56 <mad> (because compilers hate fixed registers because it turns register allocation into an np complete problem)
23:59:03 <zzo38> I think it is good if they can more easily to calculate both at once
23:59:19 <mad> izalove : it's good on a 486
23:59:41 <mad> which runs in order and doesn't do 4 operations at the same tiem
2016-12-04
00:00:20 <mad> izalove : on an out-of-order pipeline, the problem with multiple result instructions is that they really take 2 slots on the pipeline
00:01:04 <mad> which means you have 1 slot instructions and 2 slot instructions and that complexifies the scheduler
00:01:24 <izalove> idiv is slower than the rest of the pipeline anyway
00:01:53 <mad> most instructions are 1 slot which means you're basically adding some extra stalling stuff for no good reason really
00:02:20 <mad> izalove : that's also a thing... you want to have slow instructions have as few side effects as possible
00:03:18 <izalove> dividing by 0 is fast
00:03:53 <mad> yes but the problem is that it basically turns into a conditional jump
00:04:15 <izalove> so don't divide by 0?
00:04:24 <mad> it's a cpu design problem
00:04:49 <izalove> what's the alternative? idiv should have like 4 operands?
00:05:11 <mad> every conditional instruction needs to be tracked by the retirement system
00:05:20 <mad> which means that it has to be able to rollback everything
00:05:42 <mad> idiv should be 32/32->32
00:06:07 <mad> change no flags, no exceptions, no extra remainder register
00:06:37 <mad> and negative results should round the same as positive results - down
00:06:48 <mad> so that the compiler can optimize /8 as >>3
00:06:51 <izalove> but that means to throw away information
00:07:06 <mad> irl 99.9% of divisions are C++'s / operator
00:07:12 <izalove> you can't compute division without computing both results
00:07:17 <mad> which only gives you the 32 bit result and nothing else
00:07:51 <mad> you need to use some non portable intrinsic if you want the full result, and that only compiles on x86
00:07:57 <mad> which means that nobody ever uses it
00:08:05 <izalove> compilers use it
00:08:15 <izalove> also div(3) is a thing
00:08:27 <ybden> Oh wow
00:08:45 <mad> or 64x64->64 on 64-bit when using 64-bit types
00:09:16 <mad> if you really need more of the result 99.9% of the time you'll just switch to floating point anyways
00:10:15 <mad> it's the same thing as the higher bits of the result of * on 32bit cpus
00:10:40 <mad> in theory 32*32 division gives you 64 bits of result so you might want to keep those higher bits
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00:10:59 <mad> in theory 32*32 multiplication gives you 64 bits of result so you might want to keep those higher bits
00:11:26 <mad> in practice 99% of the actual multiplications in actual programs are 32*32->32 simply because that's how C++'s * operator works
00:11:56 <izalove> again you're throwing away information
00:11:58 <mad> so you end up with the problem of having an opcode that doesn't work in the way people actually use it
00:12:18 <mad> izalove : real programs throw away information
00:12:59 <mad> and for programs it's better to have less information but have multiply results come in 1 cycle earlier because it's easier to schedule and implement fast on silicon
00:13:06 <zzo38> I had different idea, you have partially reprogrammable microcodes, and part of the C runtime is in the microcodes
00:15:01 <zzo38> The microcode is reprogrammed to make whatever operation is the mainly one faster.
00:15:15 <zzo38> (As well as smaller code, if applicable)
00:15:15 <mad> izalove : like, what's good for programs is something like the GBA's multiply... it throws away bits and is only 32*32->32... BUT it comes out in 1 cycle if the multiplicator is 8bit (and games used this a ton)
00:15:42 <zzo38> You don't have to access the external RAM during part of the operation therefore it can do two thing at once and be faster.
00:16:36 <mad> zzo38 : irl on x86, memcpy() has been faster in some tight software loop rather than REP STOSB for years
00:17:13 <int-e> . o O ( and more correct too )
00:17:19 <mad> and that's one C++ library function that cpu designers know that people use and needs to be fast and could specifically optimize for
00:17:33 <int-e> mad: are you mixing up memset and memcpy or stosb and movsb?
00:18:12 <zzo38> I do know of that things in memcpy() for in x86
00:18:22 <mad> the general problem is
00:19:11 <mad> to run your microcoded block copy, the cpu has to make sure it doesn't conflict with any other operations in the pipeline
00:19:21 <mad> which means that it's slow to start and to stop
00:19:44 <mad> to make sure the cpu doesn't reorder the micro-ops in a wrong way or something like that
00:20:01 <zzo38> And that is done in my design by the blitter, so it does not block microcode (although it does block memory access, meaning you still have to wait before the next non-microcode instruction is executed)
00:20:33 <mad> zzo38 : what sort of microcode operations do you have that don't access memory? :D
00:21:13 <mad> like, even operations like function call and return have memory accesses in them
00:21:13 <zzo38> All of them mandatorily do access memory actually, but you can just suppress that part while the blitter is in operation.
00:21:22 <int-e> mad: and what's the point of making rep movsb fast if the language runtimes don't use it anymore anyway...
00:21:43 <int-e> (circular reasoning is fun)
00:21:57 <mad> int-e : who knows, maybe they've put reb movsb back in by now
00:22:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JGeo * New user account
00:22:28 <mad> I guess it's particularly compact in the instruction cache
00:22:29 <Jafet> int-e: ask intel, who made it really fast again in ivy bridge
00:22:46 <Jafet> or maybe it was haswell
00:23:06 <mad> but I'm not sure icache compactness on that kind of operation is really worth it
00:24:57 <Jafet> also full euclidean division is used very often: when calculating rectangular array indices, or in high-precision arithmetic
00:25:39 <Jafet> those are the uses that need to be optimal, not C programmers' bizarre * and / operators
00:26:01 <mad> in what field? :D
00:27:09 <mad> in sound processing (my field), if you're running into precision limits of / you switch to floating point
00:27:51 <mad> but it's true that if you're doing bignum processing then that's a different thing and then it might be good
00:29:00 <mad> a whole bunch of cpu design decisions that make no sense in general purpose code (flags registers, add-with-carry, 32*32->64 multiply, etc) suddenly make total sense if you're doing bignum, yes
00:29:03 <Jafet> even remainder-less division gives the quotient to full precision, so there is no precision limit involved
00:29:18 <Jafet> what do you mean by precision?
00:29:40 <zzo38> Other thing is if writing assembly-language programming, but that is only if you target a specific computer
00:29:47 <mad> well, sound never needs more than 64 bit programming
00:30:06 <mad> 64 bit double precision float is really good enough for the ear
00:30:19 <mad> and 99% of the time 32 bit float is good enough as well, for audio
00:30:50 <mad> 3d gfx in video games is another different field so I expect it breaks some other way :3
00:30:54 <Jafet> most CPUs don't provide euclidean division for more than 64-bit integers, so nothing is wasted there (except having a remainder in signal processing would be odd)
00:31:45 <mad> irl if I need a remainder 99% of the time I can change scaling factors and then just do var &= 0xfff
00:32:15 <mad> so in a way, my code has a ton of remainders, but they're all implemented with bitmasks
00:32:52 <zzo38> One program I wrote that is doing sound processing is XISYNTH, which internally works with 64-bit floating-points but it must downgrade the signal to 16-bit integers when output.
00:32:54 <Jafet> does that work when the divisor is not a power of 2?
00:33:05 <mad> Jafet : of course not :D
00:33:14 <Jafet> then you weren't doing any divisions at all
00:33:34 <zzo38> (But there is also one option you can tell it to downgrade to 8-bits instead, but by default it downgrades to 16-bits)
00:33:49 <mad> it's very rare to have variable quotients in signal processing
00:34:04 <mad> so 99% of the time if / shows up, turn it into *
00:35:10 <mad> one case I can think of is ramping a value over a block linearly...
00:35:30 <mad> then stepsize = (endvalue - startvalue) / blocksize
00:36:27 <mad> in that _one_ particular case, /'s way of rounding upwards in the negatives instead of downwards as usual sorta helps you-ish
00:37:50 <mad> if you have to ramp more than 1 parameter, then it's better to do 1/blocksize once and then use * for each ramped value
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01:37:55 <izalove> .,+*=A#
01:37:59 <izalove> are these characters sorted by brightness?
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01:43:31 <mad> = is less bright than * on my font
01:43:50 <mad> you might want to look into % \$ @ &
01:44:32 <otherbot> Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
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01:46:01 <izalove> .oO@
01:46:11 <izalove> i'll just use these
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02:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: This is a meaningless question without font choice
02:08:58 <hppavilion[1]> AFAYK, my font is negative
02:11:20 * hppavilion[1] has a brilliant idea
02:11:28 <hppavilion[1]> (maybe)
02:11:59 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: it is also a question on transliteration-orthography (or how it is for one is using something like freemasons 'cipher')
02:12:42 <Zarutian> (or eljian script which is very similiar)
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02:21:10 <ais523> is the wiki down?
02:21:39 <shachaf> Looks down to me.
02:22:29 <ais523> ugh, and I have a new language I want to document
02:22:48 <ais523> for the time being, you can get an interpreter with embedded spec from http://nethack4.org/esolangs/7/7.pl
02:23:27 <shachaf> But it's being served as application/x-perl :-(
02:26:15 <ais523> for me that opens it in a text editor, with syntax highlighting
02:26:28 <ais523> given that the spec is in perldoc anyway, a browser wouldn't be ideal for viewing it
02:28:19 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: lets hear that brilliant idea or least a rough sketch of it
02:28:36 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Basically, make a font with non-english characters for the alphabet
02:28:45 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Completely unrelated to english
02:29:02 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: like the fúþark runic charset?
02:29:06 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe?
02:29:28 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Take advantage of brain's neuroplasticity to read in it. Never have anyone read over my shoulder again.
02:29:30 <hppavilion[1]> Profit.
02:31:13 <ais523> who's in charge of the wiki? fizzie? we should probably ping whoever it is to let them know the wiki's down
02:31:17 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: I have used an variant of 'younger swedish fúþark' to write semi private notes. That is, notes that I do not intend to be glanced at and absorbed by people seeing my writing.
02:31:17 <hppavilion[1]> Also, look like a god
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02:47:47 <oerjan> wiki down :(
02:48:07 <shachaf> who keeps the wiki up these days?
02:48:10 <shachaf> i,i no one
02:48:28 <oerjan> fizzie may
02:48:52 <oerjan> but only if the server is up
02:49:53 <\oren\> @messages-maud
02:49:53 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
02:50:45 <shachaf> `quote @messages
02:50:52 <shachaf> `? @messages-loud
02:51:03 <shachaf> Oh, right.
02:51:49 <\oren\> O NOES
02:51:55 <oerjan> i guess the server isn't up, then.
02:52:05 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
02:52:05 <lambdabot> CYYZ 040200Z 28008KT 15SM BKN049 03/M01 A3020 RMK SC7 SLP235
02:52:56 <shachaf> @@ @@ (@where weather) KOAK KSFO KSJC
02:52:59 <lambdabot> KOAK 040153Z 34004KT 10SM FEW200 13/09 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP220 T01280094 \ KSFO 040156Z 29010KT 9SM FEW015 FEW200 13/10 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP220 T01280100 \$ \ KSJC 040153Z 27003KT 10SM FEW050 SCT100 13/04
02:52:59 <lambdabot> A3018 RMK AO2 SLP218 T01280044
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03:00:06 <mad> is there a way to turn the knapsack problem into a turing machine? (by introducing something like an infinite number of items or something)
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03:15:31 <oerjan> <izalove> midnight spaghetti, anyone? <-- already had some at approx. 22:30 hth
03:15:50 <izalove> that's no midnight spaghetti >:O
03:15:56 <oerjan> indeed
03:18:26 <shachaf> oerjan can eat midnight spaghetti at whatever hour he pleases hth
03:18:46 <oerjan> tdh thx
03:20:13 <ybden> That didn't help?
03:20:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50444&oldid=50440 * Ais523 * (+8) /* Non-alphabetic */ +[[7]]
03:20:42 <ais523> wiki's back up I think
03:21:40 <oerjan> yay
03:22:23 <oerjan> we seem to have two new users who couldn't get past the filter
03:23:10 <oerjan> and one tried a ridiculous amount of times...
03:24:37 <ais523> what were they doing wrong?
03:25:23 <oerjan> *an
03:26:06 <oerjan> the other one didn't get to the introduction at all
03:26:38 <oerjan> although i'm not sure the edit he tried to make wasn't a copyvio
03:31:55 <Jafet> making it declarative shouldn't be too hard, but making it additive could be
03:32:11 <oerjan> see Bag hth
03:32:38 <oerjan> although that's still multiplicative in notation
03:33:23 <oerjan> i'm reminded of sylver coinage
03:34:00 <oerjan> which is not TC afaik
03:34:22 <oerjan> (being terminating for a start)
03:35:21 <Jafet> well, the first few moves are unbounded
03:41:00 <Jafet> (compare http://mathoverflow.net/q/122250, a chess position with game length ω)
03:41:45 <Jafet> has sylver coinage been proven to terminate?
03:42:37 <Jafet> that is, is it known whether every game has finite optimal moves
03:42:43 <oerjan> um it's proven that it terminates
03:42:49 <oerjan> each game
03:43:11 <oerjan> regardless of what the players do
03:44:13 <Jafet> maybe “terminate” was the wrong word
03:44:45 <oerjan> you mean if perfect play is known?
03:45:17 <Jafet> for example, could there be any position where the losing player can force the game to be arbitrarily long?
03:45:43 <oerjan> hm
03:45:52 <oerjan> any player can always play 1 to win.
03:46:32 <oerjan> oh wait it's misere
03:46:35 <oerjan> so he loses
03:47:39 <Jafet> some games with unbounded move choices (even where every game is finite) have been proven undecidable
03:47:43 <Jafet> iirc
03:48:03 * oerjan looks at wikipedia
03:49:12 <oerjan> hm the first player to name 2 or 3 would also lose
03:50:09 <oerjan> oh it's not been solved
03:50:44 <mad> expecting infinite chess to be found turing complete under the right conditions
03:51:21 <shachaf> "Hutchings's Theorem states that any of the prime numbers 5, 7, 11, 13, …, wins as a first move, but very little is known about the subsequent winning moves: these are the only winning openings known. Complete winning strategies are known for answering the losing openings 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 12."
03:51:26 <shachaf> this game sounds pretty good
03:51:30 <mad> though the transfinite thing is interesting
03:51:33 <Jafet> mad: I think it is, but all constructions so far require infinitely many pieces
03:51:54 <mad> you need some source of infinite information
03:52:01 <Jafet> using finitely many pieces is an open problem
03:52:13 <mad> so either soem infinitely movable piece
03:52:23 <mad> or infinitely many pieces yes
03:53:04 <Jafet> I don't think it's been proven that either of those are even necessary for undecidability
03:53:27 <Jafet> the board is infinite, so in principle short-moving pieces can move an unbounded distance
03:53:59 <mad> you for the amount of information in your state to be always able to grow more
03:54:34 <mad> er... what you need, is that the amount of information in your state needs to be always able to grow more
03:54:39 <Jafet> in particular, they could move an unbounded distance away from each other, and it's plausible that this could store unbounded information
03:55:28 <mad> you need 2x unbounded counters + 1 state (bounded) for a minsky machine
03:55:32 <Jafet> maybe this would not work in a directmate construction, because the pieces would no longer influence each other
03:56:26 <Jafet> you could use sets of passed pawns though, as their moves are irreversible
03:57:57 <mad> given a board with one-ways, 'wire crossings' (ie superposed paths in 2d), and a mix of different infinitely repeated sections, you can get computation using the movement of 1 piece (by using the x and y position as your two unbounded minsky-machine counters, and using which path you're on as the state)
04:00:17 <mad> you'd need 2 unbounded movable pieces
04:00:32 <mad> that can be moved +1 or -1 an infinite number of times
04:01:05 <mad> and if they move back to position 0 they change state transitions
04:04:06 <Jafet> hmm, a “knapsack” problem over a word group (instead of an additive group) is undecidable again, because it is a post correspondence system
04:06:07 <Jafet> you could try and determine if a knapsack problem where each item value is a k-tuple of integers is decidable
04:06:15 <Jafet> (the standard knapsack problem is where k=1)
04:09:05 <Jafet> having a deterministic (order-independent) fractran UTM would show that a finite k-knapsack is curly-L-complete
04:09:30 <Jafet> k would be the number of prime factors in the fractran program
04:15:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[7]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50445 * Ais523 * (+10419) new language!
04:16:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50446&oldid=50252 * Ais523 * (+7) +[[7]]
04:17:13 <mad> kinda wonder what infinichess would look like on a hyperbolic plane
04:18:25 <\oren\> if the right winger win the election tomorrow, maybe austria will demand south tyrol back
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04:39:06 <mad> why not poland with that
04:41:29 <\oren\> maybe if the right wingers win in poland, they can insto space
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04:58:58 <\oren\> `quote
04:59:05 <\oren\> @quote
04:59:05 <lambdabot> mnislaih says: When one of the Simons says that he is having trouble reading your code, you ought to listen!
04:59:11 <\oren\> @quote
04:59:11 <lambdabot> davidhasselh0f says: [on SPJ's "A Taste of Haskell" tutorial]: It's better than sex.
04:59:16 <\oren\> @quote
04:59:16 <lambdabot> Failure02 says: in haskell you can have korean smilies as variables! like (^-^)
04:59:20 <HackEgo> 1259) <fungot> boily: some girl from germany just messaged me and turned out the freezer was set to some sort of esoteric natural language.
04:59:36 <\oren\> YAAAAY Hackego is back!
05:00:08 <\oren\> `quote
05:00:15 <HackEgo> 536) <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, any organisation called the Scottish Defence League should be beating up English people, what other point would there be?
05:07:42 <zzo38> One chess variant I have read about is all pieces also have the power of pawns (except for promotion) in addition to their normal powers. Double-step is possible from your second rank, in which case they can be captured by en-passan by any other pieces. In the default variant, rooks and queens cannot be captured by en-passan.
05:09:06 <zzo38> I can think of two other kinds of subvariants though. One is that rooks and queens can be captured by en-passan, but only if it moves two spaces forward from your second rank without capturing anything. The other possible way is that it is only allowed if it would otherwise be stalemate, and then only if the player who moved the rook/queen agrees to let you to capture it so that the game can continue.
05:16:55 <Jafet> turns out that mate-in-n problems with finitely many pieces are decidable, because each of the n moves can be described in presburger arithmetic: https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.5597
05:19:12 <zzo38> To have an infinite number of pieces is only also with infinite size of board
05:29:18 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Strip chess never ends in a stalemate.
05:32:00 <Jafet> I hear that playing in some places might get you a Czech mate
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07:01:37 <ais523> Jafet: I assume that this is finitely many pieces, but an infinite board? otherwise it's obviously decidable by brute force
07:01:51 <ais523> next question: we know it isn't above TC; is it below TC?
07:08:33 <oerjan> decidable implies below TC, usually?
07:09:31 <ais523> oh right
07:09:40 <ais523> it's 7am and I haven't gone to bed yet
07:10:20 * oerjan is about to consider it
07:10:37 <shachaf> @time oerjan
07:10:37 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sun Dec 4 08:10:37 2016
07:10:45 <shachaf> maybe you want to have some midnight spaghetti
07:11:52 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently there's some massive pm-spamming advertising campaign going on on freenode right now
07:12:07 <ais523> does it involve spaghetti by any chance?
07:19:03 <sam[0]> Apparently "this irc" is being moved
07:19:08 <hppavilion[1]> sam[0]: ...is your name a reference to mine?
07:19:18 <hppavilion[1]> sam[0]: Yes, I heard
07:19:26 <hppavilion[1]> Stay out of the big channels and you won't get spammed
07:19:28 <sam[0]> hppavilion[1]: no
07:19:50 <sam[0]> Or just set usermode +R
07:20:14 <sam[0]> Stops unregged nicks PMing you
07:20:26 <ais523> sam is an editor, not a model of laptop
07:20:26 <hppavilion[1]> sam[0]: Well, yes, that too
07:20:35 <hppavilion[1]> sam[0]: I heard
07:20:42 <hppavilion[1]> sam[0]: But the [0]
07:20:45 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
07:20:49 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: The [0]
07:21:01 <sam[0]> Ah, that's due to something from another channel
07:21:17 <sam[0]> A disagreement about who the original sam was
07:23:39 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: well [1] isn't a laptop model as far as I know
07:24:12 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: And is [0] an editor version?
07:24:19 <hppavilion[1]> I assume
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07:54:41 <shachaf> @time
07:54:44 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sat Dec 3 23:54:41 2016
07:54:48 <shachaf> izalove: presently cooking spaghetti
07:54:48 <izalove> i need a cool nonsense name for a project
07:54:57 <izalove> thanks that's a great name
07:56:16 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: What's a great name?
07:56:21 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Do I have somebody on block??
07:56:33 <hppavilion[0]> Or was it what shachaf said? :P
07:56:36 <izalove> shachaf ?
07:56:53 <izalove> spaghetti is the name
07:57:16 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: I see der chaf's message before yours
07:57:32 <izalove> at first i wanted to use presently-cooking-spaghetti but then it was too long to type
07:58:29 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Go with something that treats "spaghet" as if it were a greek root
07:58:36 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: The same way we say "spaghettification"
07:58:47 <izalove> who says that
08:00:19 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: ...scientists
08:00:27 <shachaf> @time
08:00:30 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Dec 4 00:00:27 2016
08:00:36 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Spaghettification is the actual, scientific term for how you get torn apart as you fall into a black hole
08:00:57 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: At some point, your legs move faster than your head (...assuming you fall feet first) and you're torn in half
08:00:59 <shachaf> If you're trying not to ping me by saying "chaf's", it's not working.
08:01:20 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: I knew it'd ping you, I just wanted to call you "der chaf"
08:01:21 <shachaf> I have /hilight on chaf\b
08:01:24 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Then the same thing happens to each piece then
08:01:27 <hppavilion[0]> etc.
08:01:38 <hppavilion[0]> Until you're just a train of individual particles falling into a singularity
08:02:13 <izalove> why does everything you say end up with me in particles falling apart
08:02:29 <shachaf> hppavilion[0]: pretty sure that hasn't been observed and therefore can't be called science hth
08:02:56 <shachaf> https://aaronkcollett.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/0055_08.gif
08:03:02 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: Oh.
08:03:10 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: It's my master plan
08:03:54 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: Wait, I'm confused
08:05:48 <shachaf> http://media.chick.com/tractimages67491/0055/0055_14.gif
08:05:52 <shachaf> that's science for you
08:07:01 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: Yeah, I get it
08:07:10 * hppavilion[0] remember Jack Chick is dead and dances
08:07:33 <shachaf> chick tracts are so good
08:09:34 <pikhq> Oh right, there was a celebrity death I approved of this year.
08:10:06 <shachaf> hikhq
08:10:20 <shachaf> How should we build, package, and deploy software?
08:10:42 <pikhq> Oh gee, that's a hard question.
08:10:56 <pikhq> Why don't you give me an easier one, like "does P=NP?"
08:11:21 <shachaf> That one is pretty easy.
08:11:33 <shachaf> P≠NP
08:11:38 <shachaf> Just the proof is tricky.
08:11:46 <shachaf> And I'm not asking you for a proof.
08:12:01 <pikhq> Would you say there exists a proof this IRC line is too small to contain?
08:12:18 <shachaf> `cat bin/distort
08:12:29 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
08:13:02 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: P ⊃ NP obv.
08:13:02 <shachaf> oerjan: What if `` piped the output through a program that automatically became a variant of `1 when the output was long enough?
08:13:17 <shachaf> pikhq: You can do a lot in 330 bytes. I wouldn't bet on it.
08:17:10 <oerjan> shachaf: fiendish
08:17:39 <shachaf> oerjan: which part
08:17:41 <pikhq> I estimate there are approximately 330*2^8 possibilities.
08:18:01 <pikhq> (actually less, but that's a decent lazy upper bound)
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08:35:03 <hppavilion[1]> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
08:51:06 <izalove> pikhq: lern2math
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09:14:38 <ais523> if there were a 330-byte proof that P≠NP, I'd expect it to have been discovered by now
09:14:45 <ais523> perhaps not, though
09:15:01 <ais523> one of the main results of my PhD thesis had a proof that was only about a paragraph long, it might be golfed into that length
09:15:11 <ais523> *golfable
09:23:27 <Jafet> a sufficiently well-written 330-character grant application ought to do the job
09:25:10 <Jafet> failing that, a 330-character invitation to attend your keynote where you will present the most important 23 problems of this century
09:25:36 <ais523> is it possible that P=?NP is undecidable? (if it is, I'm pretty sure you can prove that you can't prove that it's undecidable)
09:26:21 <ais523> (because doing so would prove that no algorithm for solving an NP-complete problem can provably run in polynomial time, and it's hard to see how an algorithm could run in polynomial time but unprovably so)
09:27:26 <ais523> <shachaf> How should we build, package, and deploy software? ← via an international hub for software design and deployment
09:27:37 <ais523> (alternative answer: aimake, preferably the vaporware version that I haven't even really started yet)
09:28:02 <shachaf> I initially understood that sentence as "I'm pretty sure you can prove that, if it is, you can't prove that it's undecidable"
09:28:26 <shachaf> Which I think is a stronger statement. But you can't trust me after midnight spaghetti.
09:29:09 <shachaf> ais523: What is aimake?
09:29:23 <Jafet> well, suppose that you try to brute-force a problem that turns out to always has a solution of size O(log n), but you can't prove it
09:29:25 <shachaf> Ah, I should have looked it up.
09:29:26 <ais523> shachaf: a build system I've been working on for several years now
09:29:41 <Jafet> I can't think of an example, though
09:29:43 <shachaf> I remember now that you've talked about it.
09:29:56 <ais523> it contains a (weak) AI that figures out how to build much of your code; it can also generate installers, at least on Windows
09:30:15 <shachaf> Jafet: This reminds me of a thing someone said once which I can't quite remember.
09:30:45 <shachaf> It was along the lines of, there's a problem which is undecidable, but decidable given an oracle for any undecidable problem.
09:31:29 <ais523> like, a minimally undecidable problem?
09:31:43 <ais523> is it known what the problem actually /is/, or merely proven that it exists?
09:31:51 <shachaf> Yes, I think it was known.
09:31:56 <shachaf> I might be misstating it, though.
09:32:39 <shachaf> I'll ask in the other channel.
09:33:43 <Jafet> partial example: a simplex algorithm with a sufficiently clever oracle for pivoting might always run in polynomial time, though it could be extremely hard to prove this
09:36:50 <shachaf> ais523: I don't think having to write a bit of metadata about my code is a build system problem.
09:37:04 <shachaf> I mean, a problem that I have with existing build systems.
09:37:19 <ais523> I think having to change the makefiles whenever you shuffle things around in your source tree is really annoying
09:37:57 <ais523> and things like determining which directories installed system header files are in is a problem that most build systems push onto the end user (!) even though they can be solved more easily by a computer than by a human
09:38:26 <shachaf> Well, I certainly think a build system's description files should be high-level and declarative, not lists of commands like Makefiles.
09:39:00 <Jafet> the worst metadata that a makefile forces you to write is the build dependencies
09:39:18 <shachaf> I'm not sure that explicit dependencies are that bad.
09:39:30 <Jafet> usually, you don't even know what they are, so why are you expected to write them correctly?
09:40:25 <shachaf> If you're using a library, you presumably know that you're using it.
09:41:18 <ais523> in aimake, you specify that you're using it (+ a symbol from the library to ensure that it finds the right one)
09:41:24 <ais523> you don't specify where it is, though
09:41:54 <shachaf> How do you specify something without specifying where it is?
09:42:12 <Jafet> I can specify shachaf without knowing where it is
09:42:34 <shachaf> ais523: Aha, I got a reference: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1907.pdf
09:42:40 <ais523> by name, in this case
09:42:49 <Jafet> I was referring, though, to libraries and binaries (such as compilers) that depend on other files
09:43:18 <shachaf> Well, you're implicitly referring to freenode:shachaf or, freenode:#esoteric:shachaf
09:44:28 <Jafet> fortunately, shachaf is sufficiently unique in this context
09:44:48 <Jafet> I wonder how aimake would deal with multiple versions of libraries, such as on a multiarch debian system
09:44:54 <shachaf> Right. Like you can specify a file with a relative path.
09:45:08 <shachaf> There's enough information from context that you're still specifying where it is.
09:47:33 <ais523> Jafet: that already happens with ncurses and ncursesw; it seems to just pick one that causes the link to succeed
09:48:02 <shachaf> OK, now I see what you mean.
09:48:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What are the actual limits of an IRC line length?
09:48:45 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: 510 characters including metadata
09:48:54 <ais523> it's sometimes a little hard to predict the length of the metadata though
09:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: And how short can you reliably get metadata down to?
09:49:05 <Jafet> (I believe that debian amd64 allows you to have three libc's simultaneously: :amd64, :i386, and the -i386 variant that exists for backwards compatibility)
09:49:10 <shachaf> 330 was conservative, if I remember correctly.
09:49:10 <ais523> so clients tend to wrap the lines early, and in general it's impossible to predict where you'll be cut off
09:49:48 <Jafet> oh, there are i686 variants as well (even for amd64‽) which brings the total to 5
09:50:22 <hppavilion[1]> OK, we'll stick with 330
09:50:43 <hppavilion[1]> Let's just assume any 330-8-bit-byte line can be used
09:50:44 <hppavilion[1]> WAIT!
09:50:44 <shachaf> 330 is for distort, though.
09:51:00 <hppavilion[1]> We have to include lines of length <330; I think those are distinct
09:52:18 <shachaf> "typedef char *char_p; char_p AIMAKE_EXPORT(function_returning_a_string)(void) /* exported */"
09:52:21 <shachaf> Looks complicated.
09:52:45 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Are they distinct?
09:53:19 <ais523> it depends on whether they can be uniquely padded
09:53:25 <ais523> especially with trailing whitespace
09:53:35 <ais523> shachaf: I've had to jump through several hoops to avoid having to write a custom preprocessor :-(
09:53:48 <ais523> that is something I'd love to fix
09:53:50 <ais523> because it's annoying
09:54:01 <hppavilion[1]> What character terminates an IRC line?
09:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> Is it only \r\n?
09:54:04 <ais523> (also the typedef's only needed in gcc; IIRC it works in clang even with the obvious char *)
09:54:09 <shachaf> Why is it necessary?
09:54:15 <hppavilion[1]> Would, say, just a \r or just an \n still end it?
09:54:21 <hppavilion[1]> Or a \n\r?
09:54:50 <shachaf> Oh, it's about shared libraries?
09:54:56 <shachaf> Why not statically link everything?
09:55:19 <shachaf> Wait, I might be confusing things.
09:56:51 <ais523> it's about getting aimake to generate shared libraries
09:57:10 <ais523> it has this feature because NitroHack used it, and the original motivation for aimake was that NitroHack's build system was broken
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11:07:37 <hppavilion[1]> Are all traditional programming languages (henceforth "borilangs", by analogy to "esolangs") analytic?
11:07:56 <izalove> what does analytic mean in this case?
11:08:12 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: In terms of language typology
11:08:21 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_language
11:08:24 <izalove> ah i know nothing about that
11:08:35 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: May I ask why you stopped being izabera at some point?
11:09:05 <izalove> idk
11:09:33 <Jafet> most “traditional” programming languages are actually fairly esoteric
11:10:06 <Jafet> at any rate, there is perligata, which is about as inflective on the word level as languages go
11:11:14 <hppavilion[1]> `? perligata
11:11:31 <hppavilion[1]> Duck Duck Go can search the esowiki with !eso :D
11:11:44 <HackEgo> perligata? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:12:03 <hppavilion[1]> Oh god, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Inflection is appalling
11:12:49 <hppavilion[1]> I'm... just going to redo it
11:12:55 <Jafet> http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Lingua-Romana-Perligata-0.50/lib/Lingua/Romana/Perligata.pm
11:17:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50447&oldid=50434 * JGeo * (+242) /* Introductions */
11:17:53 <hppavilion[1]> Wat
11:17:58 <hppavilion[1]> Why wasn't it
11:17:59 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
11:18:07 <hppavilion[1]> Oh. That's why
11:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> I had Strip Colors on for #esoteric
11:19:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50448&oldid=50447 * JGeo * (-242) /* Introductions */
11:20:21 <myname> is pr(a | emptyset) a valid thing to calculate?
11:21:04 <hppavilion[1]> thyname: Assuming you mean P(a|{}), yeah, but it'll always just be P(a) ips
11:21:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50449&oldid=50448 * JGeo * (+204) /* Introductions */
11:21:43 <myname> how so? i'd argue it is 0 because A | {} can never happen
11:22:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50450&oldid=50449 * JGeo * (+9) /* Introductions */
11:22:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Isn't P(A|{}) the probability of A given that {} is true?
11:22:26 <hppavilion[1]> myname: The probability that {} is true is... I think it's actually 1
11:22:32 <hppavilion[1]> As a vacuous truth
11:22:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50451&oldid=50450 * JGeo * (+46) /* Introductions */
11:23:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50452&oldid=50451 * JGeo * (-1) /* Introductions */
11:23:36 <hppavilion[1]> But since the happenedness of {} is irrelevant to the probability of A (and also, since {} always happens anyway, it's not important), it doesn't change anything
11:24:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Piet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50453&oldid=47000 * JGeo * (+127) Added a link to a new Piet program.
11:26:19 <Jafet> no, because P(A | ∅) is defined as P(A ∩ ∅) / P(∅)
11:26:44 <myname> but what is P({})?
11:26:47 <myname> it it
11:26:53 <myname> if it's 1 i am right
11:27:02 <myname> if it's 0 you cannot compute it
11:28:23 <Jafet> P(∅) is always zero
11:28:48 <myname> so it's not computable what P(a | {}) is?
11:29:08 <Jafet> now, a more interesting question is P(A | B) for a nonempty set B with probability measure 0
11:30:03 <myname> how is this more interesting?
11:30:20 <myname> well, empty set is just an edge case of that i guess
11:31:23 <myname> i hate probabilities
11:31:35 <myname> even the word is just horible
11:36:57 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: I'd think P(∅) would be one
11:37:03 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: because vacuousity
11:37:26 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode ∩
11:37:50 <HackEgo> ​[U+2229 INTERSECTION]
11:38:18 <hppavilion[1]> Güt
11:38:21 <hppavilion[1]> Or Gut
11:41:09 <Jafet> well, your thinking would be… unlikely to be correct
11:41:25 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: cow.org/csi
11:41:29 <Jafet> (in fact, it is correct with probability P(∅).)
11:45:39 <myname> :D
12:10:05 <myname> would you say Pr(omega in S) is the probability of a given omega that has to be in S or the probability that a given omega is in S?
12:17:24 <hppavilion[1]> myname: P(a) = 2
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13:21:47 <Jafet> does a samurai chicken lay samurai x?
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15:40:28 <fizzie> Outside in a lamp post there was a sticker with a photo of a cat, and the text: "If cats could talk to the cops, they wouldn't." And a logo of some organization with the word "anarchy" in the name.
15:41:34 <myname> bcause all cats are bastards?
15:43:26 <fizzie> I don't know. But this was the photo: https://twitter.com/mathieumatiu/status/649668969050308608
15:55:16 <int-e> myname: noooo, all cats are beautiful
15:56:29 <myname> int-e: i don't see any contradictions to what i said
15:56:46 <int-e> `quote 1312
15:56:55 <HackEgo> No output.
15:57:08 <int-e> `wc quotes
15:57:10 <HackEgo> ​ 1299 26146 156447 quotes
16:01:18 <myname> what?
16:02:18 <int-e> `quote 1299
16:02:20 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
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17:24:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Redstarcoder * New user account
17:32:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50454&oldid=50452 * Redstarcoder * (+340) /* Introductions */
17:33:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50455&oldid=47187 * Redstarcoder * (-10) Tenatively removing "fish.go" as it doesn't look like it has ever compiled, and certainly not on a modern version of Go. Tenatively placed my own "go-fish" in the same area, which actually utilises the GOPATH and doesn't need anything arcane to run.
17:34:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50456&oldid=50455 * Redstarcoder * (+0) /* Interpreters */ Changed ordering to put the fishlanguage.com interpreter higher up.
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18:10:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50457&oldid=50456 * Redstarcoder * (+57) /* Interpreters */ Updated go-fish description to reflect recent changes
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20:41:01 <\oren\> good morning!
20:44:05 <APic> Heya.
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21:10:44 <\oren\> `quote
21:10:58 <HackEgo> 937) <esomimic> fungot: begrudging pat
21:11:30 <\oren\> `quote
21:11:31 <HackEgo> 1168) <Sgeo> "A phone touted as the first to put privacy and security ahead of all other considerations launched at a packed event at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, Spain, today." <Sgeo> So, a paperweight? <FreeFull> Yes <pikhq> I dunno man, could be bugged.
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21:11:59 <\oren\> `quote
21:11:59 <HackEgo> 302) <augur> oerjan you're swedish, right?
21:12:03 <\oren\> `quote
21:12:04 <HackEgo> 397) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur.
21:12:25 <\oren\> `quote
21:12:26 <HackEgo> 789) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:14:38 <APic>
21:20:09 <int-e> `? apic
21:20:13 <HackEgo> apic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:20:27 <int-e> does APic say more than a thousand words?
21:21:22 <int-e> (And while I'm making up bad puns, it could also be an APic failure.)
21:21:37 <myname> grep you log for lines said by "words" and look if those from apic are at least 1000 times as much
21:23:47 <APic> *shrug*
21:24:01 <APic> It does not matter.
21:24:15 <APic> Also: It does not make Sense. ;)
21:24:26 <APic> Need to watch South-Park now.
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21:30:35 <augur> always with the quotes
21:32:30 <FreeFull> `quote
21:32:30 <HackEgo> 104) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there.
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23:11:31 <Zarutian> stagnating wages only makes sense where the 'legal tender' currency is inflated over time, no?
23:12:18 <Zarutian> I have been looking into how guilds and such in Europe made their payment and benefits rules
23:13:59 <Zarutian> those evolved be basically by tradition and how much their work was worth relative to other services or products
23:14:57 <Zarutian> in those days a coin was usually just the yardstick
23:15:31 <Zarutian> or yardline more like
23:16:19 <Zarutian> and you want your yardline to be of sturdy string and not made of streatchable rubber
23:19:44 <\oren\> I have made it a rule in life to greet anyone whom I know has a phd with "what's up doc"
23:20:34 <\oren\> `quote
23:20:47 <HackEgo> 626) <monqy> i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one"
23:21:05 <\oren\> `quote
23:21:06 <HackEgo> 803) <Phantom_Hoover> unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway
23:21:10 <\oren\> `quote
23:21:13 <HackEgo> 507) <ais523> this strikes me as probably better than a singularity, because you can't trust a random AI, but you can probably trust olsner
23:21:21 <\oren\> `quote
23:21:22 <HackEgo> 180) <zzo38> Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly)
23:21:27 <\oren\> `quote
23:21:28 <HackEgo> 1083) <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range
23:22:32 <shachaf> i,i "This is my son, he's a doctor but not the kind that helps people"
23:33:48 <izalove> italian prime minister just resigned
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2016-12-05
00:02:28 <Zarutian> shachaf: I know of an doctor that orignally didnt help people then his equation regarding volumetric processing were used to improve resolution of MRI
00:16:27 <boily> @massages-loud
00:16:27 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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00:49:01 <boily> fungot: you need massages.
00:49:01 <fungot> boily: and xp manuals?! :)
00:49:15 <boily> fungot: uuuuugh! XP is so EOL. get with the times!
00:49:16 <fungot> boily: window is up in the fnord. this information can be taken, though.
00:49:28 <boily> fungot: I take note of the windowed fnord.
00:49:29 <fungot> boily: but its o(n) property... bet that's not cheap)
00:49:40 <boily> fungot: I can manage O(n) just fine, no worries.
00:49:41 <fungot> boily: are you punctual all the time as an integer in the large, as forcer suggested, me. :)
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00:51:29 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> (because doing so would prove that no algorithm for solving an NP-complete problem can provably run in polynomial time, and it's hard to see how an algorithm could run in polynomial time but unprovably so) <-- no, you only need it to be impossible to prove any algorithm _correct_, which is much more plausible.
00:51:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:52:47 <shachaf> @tell oerjan so how 'bout that norwegian rice porridge? can it be made without dairy? twh
00:52:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:52:49 <oerjan> @tell ais523 in fact P ? NP is _not_ known to be in the classes of statements that can obviously not be proved undecidable in this way.
00:52:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:53:11 <oerjan> @messages-food
00:53:11 <lambdabot> shachaf said 23s ago: so how 'bout that norwegian rice porridge? can it be made without dairy? twh
00:53:19 <shachaf> there we go
00:53:26 <shachaf> i wanted you to use @messages-food tdh
00:53:43 <oerjan> shachaf: not that i know of, but someone probably has found a way
00:53:46 <shachaf> `? @messages-loud
00:54:08 <HackEgo> ​@messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-bold / @messages-good @messages-gold
00:54:57 <boily> `wisdom
00:55:00 <HackEgo> but//But is a Trintercal operator.
00:56:33 <shachaf> `dowt but
00:56:47 <HackEgo> 7462:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn But is a trintercal operator. \ 7465:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn But is a Trintercal operator.
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01:00:32 <oerjan> `
01:00:38 <oerjan> `? twh
01:00:43 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
01:01:03 <oerjan> `learn But is an hth derivative.
01:01:15 <HackEgo> Relearned 'but': But is an hth derivative.
01:01:38 <shachaf> good rebuttal
01:01:42 <oerjan> thx
01:02:10 <boily> but derivates from hth?
01:02:37 <oerjan> boily: the `? twh entry states so
01:02:53 <shachaf> `? hand
01:02:56 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
01:02:59 <oerjan> probably through some advanced phonological process.
01:03:24 <shachaf> `? tanebventions
01:03:26 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:03:45 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s#ss,#& cumin,#
01:03:50 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:04:10 <shachaf> i've been using cumin seeds lately
01:04:12 <shachaf> they're great
01:04:31 <oerjan> shachaf: there's a norwegian concept of vassgraut, which i think is porridge without dairy. i'm not sure it's compatible with rice, though.
01:05:01 <shachaf> oerjan: also is norwegian rice porridge a rip-off of riisipuuro twh
01:06:41 <olsner> riisipuuro is probably just rice porridge
01:06:42 <boily> `? cumin
01:06:44 <HackEgo> cumin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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01:07:41 <shachaf> riisipuucho
01:07:49 <boily> riisipooch.
01:08:14 <oerjan> shachaf: it's obviously stolen, given rice doesn't really grow in norway. from whom i don't know.
01:08:28 <oerjan> @wn cumin
01:08:29 <lambdabot> *** "cumin" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:08:30 <lambdabot> cumin
01:08:30 <lambdabot> n 1: dwarf Mediterranean annual long cultivated for its aromatic
01:08:30 <lambdabot> seeds [syn: {cumin}, {Cuminum cyminum}]
01:08:30 <lambdabot> 2: aromatic seeds of the cumin herb of the carrot family [syn:
01:08:31 <lambdabot> {cumin}, {cumin seed}]
01:08:44 <shachaf> cumin is too good
01:09:17 <shachaf> spisskum hth
01:09:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i have trouble thinking of a wisdom for cumin which doesn't involve sex, so you'll have to make it yourself hth
01:09:47 <shachaf> oerjan: hm, i have trouble thinking of one that does
01:10:36 <shachaf> why doesn't Taneb document his ownventions?
01:12:01 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
01:12:09 <hppavilion[1]> I'm using fontstruct to make a simple font...
01:12:31 <hppavilion[1]> But it appears it doesn't support non-lettery things; there's no section to define exempli gratia mathematical operators
01:13:34 <boily> `learn Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex.
01:13:42 <HackEgo> Learned 'cumin': Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex.
01:13:43 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a little too close to a certain dysphemism.
01:14:06 <shachaf> I don't know why you say "exempli gratia" like that.
01:14:14 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, there we go. Fixed it.
01:14:15 <shachaf> It's completely gratiatous.
01:14:34 <shachaf> oerjan: ah
01:14:51 <shachaf> boily: no good, a discussion of whether something involves sex itself involves sex
01:15:06 <shachaf> oerjan: the hebrew name is camun hth
01:15:43 <oerjan> don't seeds generally involve sex, anyway
01:16:27 <boily> maybe we can define cumin by the morphisms that target it, and not mention it itself?
01:23:19 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's gratuitous Latin because I love the Lat
01:23:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The dysphemism has two 'm's
01:24:21 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it also often has a 'g'. i fail to see the relevance.
01:24:28 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: True
01:25:18 <hppavilion[1]> `? tanebventions
01:25:21 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:25:39 <hppavilion[1]> QUESTION! What happens when somebody repurposes a tanebvention for sex?
01:25:54 <hppavilion[1]> I see several sexualizable things in there
01:26:11 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yeah
01:26:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: True
01:26:36 <hppavilion[1]> submarine jousting; the universe; special relativity; metar; sand; dragons; persistence; the BBC (obviously); progress; sanity.
01:28:04 <boily> dibs on metar!
01:28:11 <boily> wait.
01:28:29 <boily> metars are tanebbed?
01:28:40 <oerjan> `? metar
01:28:42 <HackEgo> metar is a service Taneb invented that allows nerds to talk about the weather.
01:28:51 <shachaf> `dowg metar
01:29:02 <HackEgo> 9021:2016-09-08 <shachäf> slwd metar//s#that#Taneb invented &# \ 6536:2016-01-11 <oerjän> learn metar is a service that allows nerds to talk about the weather.
01:29:12 <shachaf> oops
01:29:37 <oerjan> apparently so.
01:30:43 <oerjan> `? _46bit_
01:30:45 <HackEgo> _46bit_? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:31:03 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep 46
01:31:14 <HackEgo> 9334:2016-10-18 <oerjän> slwd tanebvention//s/BBC/BBC, _46bit/
01:31:18 <oerjan> huh
01:31:32 <oerjan> `? _46bit
01:31:34 <HackEgo> _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
01:31:39 <oerjan> oh that.
01:32:09 <oerjan> `grwp xford comma
01:32:19 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents any
01:32:39 <oerjan> `` grwp -l 'xford comma'
01:32:41 <HackEgo> reflection \ tanebvention
01:32:46 <shachaf> oxford cumin
01:32:55 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep comma
01:32:58 <shachaf> it was me
01:33:03 <HackEgo> 9222:2016-10-10 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#and#the Oxford comma, and#
01:38:21 <oerjan> `le/rn grace period//The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
01:38:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'grace period': /The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
01:38:29 <oerjan> argh
01:38:39 <shachaf> oerjan: see, it should just produce an error in this case
01:38:49 <oerjan> `slwd grace period//s,/,,
01:38:55 <HackEgo> grace period//The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
01:44:07 <shachaf> `? ../le/rn
01:44:10 <HackEgo> sep="/" \ [[ "\$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ key="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="\${1#*\$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/\$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "\$value" > "\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$key")" && echo -n "\$verb '\$key': \$(echo "\$value" | sed 's.^[/ ].&.')"
01:45:41 <hppavilion[1]> My secrecy font is almost complete :D
01:45:41 <shachaf> oerjan: just check [[ \$sep == "/" && \$value == /* ]] or something and exit twh
01:45:55 <shachaf> you appear not to be very good at this secrecy thing hth
01:46:14 <shachaf> oerjan: What do you think of deprecating le/rn and always having a // separator?
01:47:13 <oerjan> tempting.
01:48:29 <hppavilion[1]> I HAVE COMPLETED THE ALPHABET
01:48:36 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: How so??
01:49:33 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//1,2csep="//"
01:49:38 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ key="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="\${1#*\$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/\$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "\$value" > "\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$key")" && echo -n "\$verb '\$key': \$(echo "\$value" | sed 's.^[/ ].&.')"
01:51:14 <shachaf> oh, come on
01:52:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//\$s,[/] , ,
01:52:06 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ key="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="\${1#*\$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/\$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "\$value" > "\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$key")" && echo -n "\$verb '\$key': \$(echo "\$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.')"
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01:58:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//s,exit 1,{ echo "usage: \$0 key//wisdom"; exit 1; },
01:58:05 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || { echo "usage: \$0 key//wisdom"; exit 1; } \ key="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="\${1#*\$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/\$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "\$value" > "\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$key")" && echo -n "\$verb '\$key': \$(echo "\$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.')"
01:58:31 <oerjan> `le/rn testing ho
01:58:32 <HackEgo> usage: /hackenv/le/rn key//wisdom
01:58:40 <oerjan> gah
01:58:45 <shachaf> echo >&2 twh
01:59:23 <oerjan> i was copying from bin/sled
01:59:43 <oerjan> and also the \$0 is not working :(
01:59:52 <shachaf> scientific led
02:00:12 <shachaf> \$(basename "\$0") hth
02:00:20 <shachaf> hmm, no
02:00:22 <shachaf> doesn't work
02:00:34 <oerjan> `revert
02:00:55 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
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02:04:29 <oerjan> apparently le/rn_append has never worked with the double slash afaict
02:04:45 <oerjan> and isn't written in such a way that it's easy to fix
02:04:58 <shachaf> `? ../le/rn_append
02:05:00 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ [[ "\$1" = */* ]] || exit \ topic=\$(echo "\$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "\$topic" ] && exit 1 \ stuff=\$(echo "\$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/\$topic" \ echo "\$stuff" >>"wisdom/\$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '\$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/\$topic"
02:10:36 <oerjan> or wait
02:12:17 <boily> fungot: do you ever update your sources?
02:12:30 <oerjan> `wc le/rn_append
02:12:31 <HackEgo> ​ 9 50 267 le/rn_append
02:13:01 <shachaf> `` ls bin | wc -l
02:13:04 <HackEgo> 423
02:13:14 <shachaf> too many
02:13:51 <oerjan> `` ( head -4 bin/slashlearn | sed 's/key/topic/;s/value/stuff/'; tail -5 le/rn_append ) > le/rn_app; mv le/rn_app{,end}
02:13:56 <HackEgo> No output.
02:14:25 <oerjan> `cat le/rn_append
02:14:26 <HackEgo> sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ topic="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ stuff="\${1#*\$sep}" \ stuff=\$(echo "\$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/\$topic" \ echo "\$stuff" >>"wisdom/\$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '\$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/\$topic"
02:14:38 <shachaf> oerjan: how about \$mk{x,} that expands escape sequences
02:14:41 <shachaf> or does that already exist?
02:14:44 <shachaf> `` ls bin/*mk*
02:14:47 <HackEgo> bin/mk \ bin/mkcmd \ bin/mkpasswd \ bin/mkx
02:14:52 <shachaf> `cat bin/mkcmd
02:14:54 <HackEgo> chmod +x "\$1" && echo "\$1"
02:15:04 <shachaf> `doat bin/mkcmd
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02:15:14 <HackEgo> 7773:2016-05-05 <Moon__̈-> ` mv mkcmd bin/mkcmd \ 7774:2016-05-05 <oerjän> mkx bin/mkcmd//chmod +x "\$1" && echo "\$1"
02:16:40 <shachaf> `cat bin/mkpasswd
02:16:40 <HackEgo> echo \$(base64 /dev/urandom | head -c 12)
02:16:44 <shachaf> `doat bin/mkpasswd
02:16:48 <oerjan> `sled le/rn_append//5d
02:16:50 <HackEgo> 6344:2015-11-28 <tsweẗt> echo \'echo \$(base64 /dev/urandom | head -c 12)\' > bin/mkpasswd \ 6345:2015-11-28 <tsweẗt> chmod +x bin/mkpasswd
02:16:52 <HackEgo> le/rn_append//sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ topic="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ stuff="\${1#*\$sep}" \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/\$topic" \ echo "\$stuff" >>"wisdom/\$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '\$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/\$topic"
02:17:08 <oerjan> `le/rn_append testing//ho!
02:17:11 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/le/rn_append: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/le/rn_append: cannot execute: Permission denied
02:17:23 <oerjan> `` chmod +x le/rn_append
02:17:25 <oerjan> `le/rn_append testing//ho!
02:17:26 <HackEgo> No output.
02:17:31 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/testing: No such file or directory. \ Learned 'testing': ho!
02:17:42 <oerjan> `learn Testing should always be around.
02:17:47 <HackEgo> Relearned 'testing': Testing should always be around.
02:17:49 <oerjan> `le/rn_append testing//ho!
02:17:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'testing': Testing should always be around. ho!
02:18:24 <oerjan> `cat bin/learn_append
02:18:26 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic="\$(echo "\$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=\$(echo "\$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/\$topic" \ echo "\$stuff" >>"wisdom/\$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '\$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/\$topic"
02:19:13 <shachaf> can you imagine if all shaventions were deleted?
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02:21:48 <oerjan> `forget testing
02:21:51 <HackEgo> Forget what?
02:22:20 <oerjan> `` perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/testing" || echo "Whoops"
02:22:22 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/testing: No such file or directory.
02:22:33 <oerjan> fff
02:22:48 <oerjan> `` perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/testing" && echo "Whoops"
02:22:50 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/testing: No such file or directory. \ Whoops
02:29:47 <oerjan> `learn Testing is mandatory.
02:29:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'testing': Testing is mandatory.
02:30:23 <oerjan> <shachaf> ais523: Aha, I got a reference: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1907.pdf <-- i found no reference to you, tdnh
02:30:38 <shachaf> A reference for the previous conversation.
02:30:55 <oerjan> fancy
02:31:05 <shachaf> but you can find references to me at https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=shachaf+ben-kiki hth
02:31:24 <shachaf> just look at all those references
02:31:27 <oerjan> more fancier
02:31:30 <shachaf> thanked in a phd thesis and a paper!
02:32:30 <shachaf> oh man, that paper was published in jfp
02:32:34 <shachaf> i'm p. much famous
02:33:37 <oerjan> i take it you're more of a gentleman than a scholar.
02:33:52 <shachaf> do i have to be either?
02:34:00 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you recommend becoming a scholar?
02:34:13 <oerjan> not unless you want to.
02:34:16 <shachaf> Can I publish papers outside of academia?
02:34:29 <shachaf> If I have a good idea, should I bring it up in IRC, or write a paper about it?
02:34:33 <oerjan> i suppose it's _possible_.
02:34:36 <shachaf> Do I ever have good ideas?
02:34:41 <shachaf> I think I must've had a few.
02:34:58 <oerjan> why are you asking me, i never got a paper published outside of academia.
02:35:08 <shachaf> Well, isn't it a similar process either way?
02:35:22 <shachaf> You write it and submit it to a journal and then you're done, right?
02:35:58 <oerjan> if it gets accepted.
02:36:03 <oerjan> and corrections.
02:36:08 <shachaf> Should I go be in academia?
02:36:12 <shachaf> Is it too late for me?
02:36:27 <oerjan> i'm not the right person to ask.
02:36:34 <shachaf> Who is?
02:38:54 <oerjan> i don't know that either.
02:39:50 <shachaf> Why did you scrap academia?
02:40:13 <oerjan> `learn_append shachaf//He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:40:15 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/shachaf//he: Not a directory. \ /hackenv/bin/learn_append: line 5: wisdom/shachaf//he: Not a directory \ Learned 'shachaf//he': cat: wisdom/shachaf//he: Not a directory
02:40:25 <oerjan> `learn_append shachaf He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:40:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'shachaf': Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:41:18 <shachaf> Is now a good time to stop asking questions?
02:41:59 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:42:35 <shachaf> oerjan: is this the dual of passover or something twh
02:42:59 <oerjan> i am not sufficiently familiar with passover to tell.
02:43:37 <shachaf> there's a thing with four children
02:43:51 <shachaf> the last one doesn't know how to ask questions
02:44:44 <oerjan> sounds dual.
04:13:42 -!- snoozypooch has changed nick to kookyzook.
04:14:24 <shachaf> pooch?!
04:14:44 <zzo38> Maybe you can write it both on the IRC and on the paper.
04:17:49 <shachaf> zzo38: Have you published any papers?
04:21:18 <zzo38> No
04:23:11 -!- kookyzook has changed nick to moodyhoot.
04:30:15 <zzo38> How common is it to ignore the return value of String.prototype.replace() in JavaScript?
04:32:13 <shachaf> Why would you do that?
04:34:08 <zzo38> See if you can think of why.
04:35:30 <shachaf> You pass in a function that has a side effect?
04:36:00 <zzo38> Yes
04:37:59 <zzo38> For example you can see the definition of parseCatalog in here http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/freeuhs.ui/raw/catalog.js?name=2a60e705e083c10b19e8ee4bd24eba8904b93e23
04:39:26 <shachaf> Why not use .match() instead in this case?
04:41:48 <zzo38> But .match() does not return captured groups when the g flag is specified
04:42:20 <zzo38> When not using a global match, it does generally make more sense to use RegExp.prototype.exec instead
04:45:01 <shachaf> You can use .exec in this case too.
04:45:15 <shachaf> You call .exec() multiple times and it gives you the next match each time.
04:46:21 <shachaf> I didn't know this until now, but now I know.
04:46:40 <zzo38> Yes it does, although I don't really like the way .exec() works with the g flag, since you have to call it multiple times and it has to keep track of where in the input to look in.
04:47:12 <shachaf> Yes, I didn't know RegExp objects had state like that.
04:47:14 <shachaf> Kind of scow.
04:47:27 <shachaf> But .replace() isn't really ideal either.
04:48:19 <zzo38> I know it isn't really ideal either
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05:23:28 <oerjan> the lower left panel of today's girl genius seriously disturbs my brain's ability to fit the weasel queen arc into the continuity...
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05:25:36 <oerjan> now it _has_ to have happened in the main story, but i cannot see when they'd have had time...
05:28:52 <oerjan> oh well it _is_ apocryphal.
05:29:07 <shachaf> `? gg
05:29:20 <HackEgo> gg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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05:36:30 <shachaf> `? girl genius
05:36:32 <HackEgo> girl genius? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:36:56 <shachaf> `? gglist
05:36:58 <HackEgo> gglist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:37:00 <shachaf> what!
05:37:07 <shachaf> `grwp enius
05:37:15 <HackEgo> comics:Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. The content of this list is not to be questioned. \ Binary file reflection matches
05:37:31 <shachaf> `dowt comics
05:37:38 <HackEgo> 7134:2016-03-06 <int-̈e> le/rn comics/Recommended comics include genius stick, stuck girl, and home of the order. \ 7135:2016-03-06 <boil̈y> le/rn comics/Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. \ 7381:2016-04-14 <boil̈y> ` echo -n \' The content of this list is not to be questioned.\' >>wisdom/comics \ 7382:20
05:37:58 <shachaf> `2 dowt comics
05:38:16 <HackEgo> 2/2:dom/comics \ 7382:2016-04-14 <oerjän> revert \ 7383:2016-04-14 <oerjän> le/rn_append comics/The content of this list is not to be questioned.
05:39:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50458&oldid=50454 * TehFlaminTaco * (+188)
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05:56:10 <oerjan> `slwd comics//s:G[^,]*:Yet another Genius Gamer:;s:and ::;s:[.]:, and Fantasy Stick Comic.:
05:56:13 <HackEgo> comics//Recommended comics include Yet another Genius Gamer, Stuck Girl, Home of the Order, and Fantasy Stick Comic. The content of this list is not to be questioned.
05:58:03 <oerjan> `slwd comics//s, a, A,
05:58:08 <HackEgo> comics//Recommended comics include Yet Another Genius Gamer, Stuck Girl, Home of the Order, and Fantasy Stick Comic. The content of this list is not to be questioned.
05:58:31 <zzo38> You are wrong; everything is to be questioned, especially questions?
05:59:43 <oerjan> `? comic
05:59:44 <HackEgo> comic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
06:06:53 <shachaf> zzo38: pooches are not to be questioned hth
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09:27:08 <b_jonas> ninja date => http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/12/just-the-two-of-us.html
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11:36:47 <ybden> NINJA CHICKEN
11:41:22 <boily> ybdellon!
11:55:07 <ybden> belloily!
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12:15:45 <boily> `? ybden
12:15:52 <HackEgo> ybden daintily hides in her den, fostering dark machinations on warfare cutlery.
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12:54:22 <shikhin> `? boily
12:54:33 <HackEgo> ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
12:55:13 <ybden> `?? boily
12:55:20 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
12:55:26 <shikhin> `? shikhin
12:55:29 <HackEgo> shikhin is a Malevolent God, who will promise you stuff tomorrow.
12:56:06 <shikhin> Sounds like me alright.
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14:50:15 <PinealGlandOptic> hi everyone! does anybody can point me to downloads of source code of Unix v8, v9? specifically i'm looking for source code of that util: http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/1/struct
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16:17:15 <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/JsJZ8w4.jpg
16:17:18 <Phantom_Hoover> wolfram alpha, friends
16:18:12 <moony> lol
16:19:34 <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/L1Jk0tD.png
16:19:40 <Phantom_Hoover> wolfram alpha, friends
16:20:06 <moony> lol
16:22:36 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: hehe
16:26:58 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: Sidney and Brisbane don't have train stations, so bahn.de suggests "Widney Manor" and "Brißbachtal, Brodenbach" instead as closest matches, and gives a list of other stations you might have thought of
16:28:34 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: and Brißbachtal, Brodenbach is unlikely what you thought of, because it doesn't have a train line, so bahn.de gives only train+bus combinations
16:47:56 <b_jonas> [for the logs] “What is the cost of a train ticket from Sidney to Brisbane” The answer is about 28.8 quadrillion kilometer US dollars squared. Input interpretation. {The Train (movie) production budget} {The Train (movie) total US box office receipts} {distance from Sidney, New South Wales to Brisbane, Queensland} -- Wolfram Alpha
16:49:04 <b_jonas> I wonder if we could addquote that or something
16:59:20 <Phantom_Hoover> `? wolfram
16:59:31 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
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18:39:40 <\oren\> Emoji was a mistake
18:48:33 <moony> lol
18:55:00 <zzo38> String.prototype.toArray=function(){return Array.of.apply(Array,Object(this));};
18:59:23 <zzo38> Actually String.prototype.split("") works better anyways
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19:36:24 <wob_jonas> `quote
19:36:26 <HackEgo> 213) <olsner> actually, I think vorpal is the "retarded team member" to the left
19:36:46 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
19:36:53 <HackEgo> elrond//Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves.
19:36:57 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
19:37:00 <HackEgo> mothology//Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths.
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20:10:28 <moony> `wisdom
20:10:32 <HackEgo> mosquito//Mosquitos are tiny vampires, sucking out your soul.
20:10:58 <moony> `ls
20:11:02 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
20:11:29 <moony> `wisdom
20:11:31 <HackEgo> boxmodel//boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
20:11:37 <moony> `wisdom
20:11:39 <HackEgo> fiora//Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi.
20:11:50 <moony> `wisdom
20:11:53 <HackEgo> cloud//The cloud is a server Blackhat guy runs, connected to the internet through a cable modem. There's a lot of caching. Cloud is also the shape of clouds.
20:12:02 <moony> `wisdom
20:12:05 <HackEgo> ttf//TTF is the true typography format. All others are heretical.
20:12:08 <moony> `wisdom
20:12:11 <HackEgo> _46bit//_46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
20:12:14 <moony> `wisdom
20:12:16 <HackEgo> the//the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
20:12:35 <moony> `wisdom
20:12:37 <HackEgo> palate//Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's preferences about food or drink.
20:12:48 <moony> *goes to query*
20:14:24 <shachaf> `olist 1060
20:14:25 <HackEgo> olist 1060: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:14:42 <wob_jonas> oh let me check
20:14:44 <moony> did someone make hackego ignore my PMs >_<
20:15:01 <wob_jonas> moony: it's just slow
20:15:04 <moony> im simply running `wisdom over and over again to see what shows up.
20:15:05 <wob_jonas> wait several minutes
20:16:28 <\oren\> I finally added 𝕲𝕶𝕷𝕻𝕼𝖁𝖂𝖃𝖄𝖅
20:17:01 <wob_jonas> \oren\: you added what?
20:17:20 <\oren\> the uncial letters that were missing before
20:17:45 <\oren\> er, uncial decorative capitals anyway
20:21:30 -!- otherbot has joined.
20:21:32 <\oren\> I also debugged the line height problem that was happening on macs
20:22:17 <\oren\> `quote
20:22:19 <HackEgo> 995) <itidus21> :D :D oh man.. i wonder if they ever made chess variants based off of animes
20:23:03 <wob_jonas> how did you do that? do you have an apple?
20:23:13 <wob_jonas> or did you borrow one?
20:23:23 <shachaf> woe be jonas
20:24:07 <\oren\> wob_jonas: I borrowed my dad's
20:24:23 <wob_jonas> I see
20:25:55 <\oren\> The ttf my program generates is 𝕒𝕝𝕞𝕠𝕤𝕥 acceptible to windows, but I still have to run it through fontforge to generate a valid cmap format 4...
20:26:29 <shachaf> `? ttf
20:26:32 <HackEgo> TTF is the true typography format. All others are heretical.
20:26:50 <\oren\> but since fontforge isn't doing the actual bdf->ttf conversion, the turnaround time has been reduced from hours to a few minutes
20:26:54 <wob_jonas> \oren\: and it's still vector only?
20:27:05 <zzo38> Then, HTF means Heretical Typography Format.
20:27:07 <shachaf> Didn't someone here make a good pun about ttf?
20:27:13 <shachaf> `1 grwp font
20:27:17 <HackEgo> 1/3:font:#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz \ lifthrasiir's font:lifthrasiir's font is https://github.co
20:27:20 <shachaf> `spam
20:27:21 <HackEgo> 2/3:m/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png \ oren's font:\oren\'s font neoletters is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm \ Binary file reflection matches \ unicide:Unicide is when people can't read your suicide note because they lack the proper font. \ waltext2:WalText2 is WalrusOS's vector font rend
20:27:24 <shachaf> `spam
20:27:25 <HackEgo> 3/3:erer. See "WalText2i" for the improved version.
20:27:31 <zzo38> It would be the better format than TTF maybe
20:27:32 <shachaf> `1 quote font
20:27:34 <HackEgo> 1/2:30) <lacota> I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary \ 1117) <zzo38> I do sometimes work on Linux computer. I think it is set to en.UTF-8 by default although on my account I have changed it to the C locale, disabled Unicode translation, and loaded a CP437 font. <zzo38> This improves the operation of the
20:27:38 <shachaf> `spam
20:27:39 <HackEgo> 2/2: system. \ 1248) <oren> I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea
20:28:51 <\oren\> wob_jonas: sort of. I have a vector ttf version, and a bitmap bdf version available
20:29:04 <shachaf> oh man
20:29:06 <shachaf> @time fizzie
20:29:06 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Mon Dec 5 20:29:06 2016
20:29:13 <shachaf> independence day tomorrow
20:29:21 <\oren\> whose?
20:29:27 <shachaf> 99th finniversary
20:30:41 <shachaf> oops, "Bay Area’s Finnish Independence Day Celebration on the first Sunday of December"
20:30:46 <shachaf> Maybe I should've gone.
20:45:02 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
20:48:13 -!- LKoen_ has joined.
20:49:47 <\oren\> how do I diff two diffs
20:50:02 <shachaf> diffff
20:50:44 <wob_jonas> \oren\: right, but not bitmap (or graymap) ttf or otf yet
20:50:58 <zzo38> I can think of this kind of Magic: the Gathering cards: Exile ~ and return all other spells to their owner's hand. ;; Split second
20:51:10 <\oren\> er, how do I put this... I have a diff A->B and a diff A->C and I want a diff B->C
20:55:32 <wob_jonas> zzo38: there's one similar spell: Unsubstantiate
21:08:49 <\oren\> `le/rn OTF/OTF is the Orthodox Typography Format, formed after the Schism of 1991.
21:08:55 <HackEgo> No output.
21:13:28 <shachaf> Can you apply the two diffs and then diff?
21:13:39 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
21:13:40 <shachaf> Or do you not have a copy of A?
21:14:08 <\oren\> I have B and I have A, I accidentally C
21:14:29 <shachaf> You what?
21:14:36 <\oren\> I deleted C
21:14:39 <shachaf> If you have A and you have a diff A->C, then you have C.
21:14:48 <\oren\> well, sure
21:15:31 <\oren\> but shouldn't it be possible to do diff algebra independently?
21:15:44 <shachaf> Oh, this is theoretical?
21:16:12 <\oren\> somewhat, since I alreadys solved the original probem another way
21:16:42 <shachaf> Why are you even doing all this?
21:16:51 <\oren\> because we use svn
21:17:10 <\oren\> and svn doesn't have advanced commands
21:17:36 <shachaf> Maybe you should use git-svn.
21:18:15 <\oren\> I hate git
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21:18:38 <shachaf> git would make your A,B,C problem very easy.
21:18:49 <\oren\> git has too much complexity in other parts
21:20:17 <shachaf> What complexity?
21:22:30 <shachaf> All a git repository is is a collection of (content-addressed) objects and some tools for managing them.
21:23:19 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the complexity is mostly in the tools
21:23:29 <wob_jonas> and their interfaces
21:23:37 <shachaf> There isn't that much of it, though.
21:23:45 <shachaf> It's certainly less than whatever \oren\ is doing right now.
21:24:07 <wob_jonas> it's more ugliness than complexity
21:25:20 <\oren\> git has far more concepts involved than svn
21:25:21 <wob_jonas> I'm currently wondering if I should try to get past my prejudices and look at some of the other version control systems; or figure out how to fix subversion so it's more usable; or just wait for ais523's vaporware.
21:25:29 <fizzie> The hydraulic press guy has a special live crushing going on on Finnish TV, as part of the independence celebrations.
21:25:36 <fizzie> 99 isn't a 100, though.
21:25:46 <fizzie> I'm a bit bummed Norway decided not to give us that mountain.
21:26:35 <wob_jonas> fizzie: "live crushing"? does that mean he crushes live objects?
21:26:49 <wob_jonas> sorry, that doesn't work in English. they say "alive" or "living"
21:26:53 <\oren\> https://steveko.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/subversion-arrows1.png
21:27:03 <\oren\> ^ this is the workflow for SVN
21:27:11 <fizzie> They haven't said what he'll crush, but I doubt it'll be anything alive.
21:27:16 <\oren\> https://steveko.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/git-arrows31.png
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21:27:21 <olsner> wob_jonas: the hydralic press channel's english is less than perfect though
21:27:24 <\oren\> ^ this is the workflow for git
21:27:42 <shachaf> \oren\: What? Git has nothing to do with GitHub.
21:27:45 <shachaf> Well, not nothing.
21:27:46 <fizzie> That's definitely not "the workflow" for git. It might be a one.
21:27:55 <shachaf> But that looks like one person's workflow for a GitHub thing.
21:28:22 <wob_jonas> Yes, that's certainly not my git workflow.
21:28:28 <\oren\> right, but look at the part that doesn't involve github even
21:28:51 <shachaf> It looks pretty simple?
21:29:02 <shachaf> There are a bunch of redundant arrows for some reason.
21:29:03 <\oren\> not as simple as svn though
21:29:23 <shachaf> I think git is simpler than svn.
21:29:31 <wob_jonas> My git workflow at work involves two git worktrees so that I can merge stuff without touching the mtimes of files that aren't changed so that the stupid slow to build project doesn't have to rebuild everything because it thinks source files have changed.
21:29:39 <\oren\> the point is, there should be a way to use git *without* having a local repository
21:30:05 <\oren\> with just the remote one and your working directory
21:30:13 <olsner> I think you can use git archive and tar to do that
21:31:21 <olsner> well, that's only read-only, but maybe you shouldn't have write access when you do that :P
21:33:15 <wob_jonas> \oren\: do you really want no local repository, or just a sparse local repository that doesn't have the stuff you don't need?
21:34:12 <fizzie> Even a svn working copy has that local pristine copy, right?
21:34:25 <\oren\> fizzie: yes, but it's transparent to the user
21:34:57 <\oren\> git commit should commit all the way to central repository, without any extra steps
21:35:09 <fizzie> wob_jonas: My git workflow at work involves two git worktrees mostly because if I check out a different branch in the one Android Studio has a project open from, it starts running like crazy trying to reindex and recompile everything. I'd really like it if Android Studio (/IntelliJ) had a "pause" button I could use to tell it to pay no attention to the filesystem for a moment.
21:35:19 <wob_jonas> \oren\: it isn't transparent unless you have network connection and storage space way bigger than the remote repository
21:36:07 <wob_jonas> \oren\: not according to me. I want to have local branches.
21:36:41 <wob_jonas> local-only branches that is
21:36:55 <wob_jonas> I can't (easily) have those in svn
21:36:58 <fizzie> I think by definition that means you have something to hide.
21:37:30 <fizzie> In related news, UK passed the Snoopers' Charter the other week.
21:37:40 <shachaf> svn and git are similarly transparent to the user as far as I can tell.
21:37:41 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, or at least I have something that I'm not yet sure I want to show
21:37:59 <\oren\> shachaf: what is the git command equivalent to svn ci
21:38:19 <wob_jonas> I dislike both svn and git, for mostly different reasons
21:38:38 <wob_jonas> and since they have different problems, svn is better for some uses, and git is better for some other uses
21:39:02 <wob_jonas> so I'd like a perfect version control system, which that vaporware thing might be
21:39:54 <wob_jonas> maybe I should just cryogenically suspend myself until that perfect vcs is done, TAOCP is finished, and there's peace in the Middle East
21:40:10 <\oren\> svn ci does the following: git add {all your changed files}, git commit, git push in one command
21:40:28 <wob_jonas> (I'm not sure which ones of those will be ready earlier.)
21:40:42 <wob_jonas> \oren\: do you mean git commit -a and git push in one command?
21:40:47 <wob_jonas> \oren\: because it totally doesn't do that
21:41:29 <\oren\> how so?
21:41:43 <wob_jonas> \oren\: svn ci succeeds in the commit even if your working copy isn't up to date, as long as all the files or directories you modify (even meta-data wise) are up to date in your working cpoy
21:41:47 <wob_jonas> git commit and push can't do that
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21:42:09 <\oren\> so it does even more? wow.
21:42:16 <wob_jonas> git always updates the whole root directory
21:42:45 <wob_jonas> whereas in svn you can commit even if you don't have read access to some parts of the tree on the remote (that's a rare example, but it shows the principle)
21:44:00 <\oren\> cool!
21:45:08 <wob_jonas> You rarely want to set up an svn server where people don't have read access to parts of the remote, but the important part is that a client can operate on just part of the tree without knowing much about the rest.
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21:47:45 <int-e> . o O ( You rarely want to set up an svn server )
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21:49:21 <wob_jonas> int-e: obviously, you just leave such things to sysadmins, that's what they're paid for. but you rarely even want to ask them to set up an svn server that way.
21:52:43 <int-e> I like the anarchy of git and mercurial.
21:53:10 <int-e> also svn sucks when one is offline
21:53:35 <wob_jonas> I like premature optimization, so I like the performance of svn
21:54:06 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, that's the main drawback. and I think it might be possible (but not easy) to build a distributed vcs layer over svn
21:54:07 <int-e> hmm, two n. annarchy.
21:54:18 <int-e> git-svn exists, but... eh...
21:54:30 <wob_jonas> no, git-svn doesn't really do that
21:54:47 <int-e> it alleviates the offline problem.
21:54:59 <wob_jonas> git-svn brings the worst of both worlds, people just advertise it because they claim it's faster than some old version of svn they tested against
21:55:19 <wob_jonas> faster for some urealistic task they benchmarked or something
21:55:36 <wob_jonas> anyway, it's the worst of both worlds
22:03:12 <shachaf> \oren\: Sorry, I had an emergency meeting.
22:03:22 <olsner> there's also svk for making a shitty dvcs out of svn
22:03:32 <shachaf> \oren\: Anyway I don't want to git commit and git push in one command. What if I mess up a commit?
22:04:01 <shachaf> But if you want to do it, you can always set up an alias for running those two commands together, I guess?
22:04:24 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Doesn't Facebook run svn on the server side and hg on the client side?
22:04:32 <shachaf> I heard that that's what they do.
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> shachaf: that's why you commit to a private branch. the difference is, I also want that branch to be local-only sometimes.
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> you can commit to a private branch in git or svn alike.
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> and later merge back int othe main branch.
22:04:51 <shachaf> Right.
22:05:17 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no idea what facebook does
22:06:42 <shachaf> \oren\: For what it's worth there are a lot of things I like about git but I don't like GitHub pull requests.
22:07:59 <wob_jonas> I don't use github and don't particularly care about it.
22:08:09 <wob_jonas> Technically that's a lie, I've submitted bug reports in the github tracker a few times, plus looked at other people's projects on github.
22:21:42 <shachaf> \oren\: If you're managing a bunch of different versions of a collection of files, git is certainly going to be better than what you were doing with diffs.
22:21:51 <wob_jonas> or submited? I never know how this English spelling thing works
22:22:18 <shachaf> @wn submited
22:22:19 <lambdabot> No match for "submited".
22:22:20 <shachaf> @wn submitted
22:22:21 <lambdabot> No match for "submitted".
22:22:22 <zzo38> One version control system is fossil it is what I use, it work better than git and mercury and subversions and so on.
22:22:55 <shachaf> Mercury is in retrograde.
22:23:35 <wob_jonas> zzo38: but isn't fossil like git or worse when it comes to supporting clones sparse (containing only part of the directory tree or history)?
22:27:15 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I haven't tried cloning anything so I don't know, although maybe this can be fixed. I know that git has to clone everything; I asked someone once if I could clone only part of it and I couldn't.
22:27:27 <zzo38> shachaf: O, I don't know that.
22:29:36 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think git in underlying architecture wouldn't have to clone everything, it's just that the interfaces don't support that
22:30:00 <wob_jonas> svn and darcs have mostly ok support for sparse stuff
22:32:24 <zzo38> My computer does not mention Mercury in retrograde
22:32:31 <shachaf> zzo38: It's not true.
22:32:43 <shachaf> zzo38: It was a joke because you said "mercury" instead of "mercurial".
22:34:10 <zzo38> I get a positive longitudinal speed, so it is not retrograde. It says Uranus is retrograde
22:35:16 <zzo38> (Note I do not currently have JPL ephemerides installed, meaning they may be slightly inaccurate.)
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22:36:27 <zzo38> Why did they even take a domain name just to make a webpage just for such purpose? There would be better ways to specify all of the data instead of just one.
22:36:55 <int-e> wob_jonas: personally I believe you value sparse clones a tad too much
22:37:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: domain names are cheap. it's not like you need a separate server for each one.
22:37:11 <int-e> yes, svn is pretty much built around that ability
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22:37:25 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/Google/narrowhg <- we value sparse ("narrow", in this case) clones too.
22:37:25 <int-e> but you don't have to use vcss as if they were svn
22:37:41 <zzo38> It is true, you do not need a separate server for each one. Still I think that isn't very good
22:38:04 <wob_jonas> int-e: of course not. I'm not using them like that. instead, I store the large data that I want to sparse clone in svn repos, and the other data that is changed or merged frequently in git repos.
22:38:04 <shachaf> fizzie: yay
22:38:23 <wob_jonas> int-e: I said already that I'm not happy with either git or svn, so I'm using both of them, each for their relative strengths
22:38:23 <shachaf> fizzie: Should I use hg instead of git because Facebook and Google are behind it now?
22:38:42 <fizzie> shachaf: I keep asking myself that as well.
22:38:48 <zzo38> I don't see how if Facebook and Google are behind it is really relevant though
22:39:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Facebook is apparently implementing a scalable hg backend server that they're going to release.
22:39:11 <wob_jonas> maybe they have applications where hg is good?
22:39:21 <fizzie> fungot: Which version control system would you want your source code to be stored in?
22:39:22 <fungot> fizzie: don't know what that is." " me too!"
22:39:36 <shachaf> fizzie: I wonder whether there's a citc-style FUSE filesystem for one of these things?
22:39:36 <wob_jonas> maybe I have such applications too, I just don't know because I'm not familiar with mercurial or darcs
22:39:37 <pikhq> I don't foresee Facebook and Google's support really overriding the network effects of git right now.
22:39:55 <shachaf> pikhq: Well, hg is holding its own even without the support of those companies.
22:39:56 <pikhq> Could possibly lead to it, mind, but that alone won't do it.
22:40:01 <wob_jonas> that's why I said I was wondering if I should try to suppress my prejudices (man, that's impossible to type) and try to learn more about those two
22:40:23 <shachaf> fizzie: In theory, most of a narrow clone could be implemented "automatically" if you just did lazy loading of objects. More or less.
22:41:19 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no, that's contradictory with the aim of being able to work without net access
22:41:20 <shachaf> fizzie: (Also the existence of citc is public so I can talk about it here.)
22:41:39 <wob_jonas> shachaf: if I want to work without net access, that means I have to have a copy of all the data I may want to access
22:41:45 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Sure, if that's one of your goals.
22:41:48 <wob_jonas> so if I want sparse, I must tell in advance explicitly what I data don't want to have
22:42:11 <shachaf> But most of the hard implementation work is still going to be covered, I think.
22:42:16 <wob_jonas> it definitely is
22:43:01 <shachaf> I think there aren't many cases where I really care about both narrow clones and working offline.
22:43:20 <\oren\> has google finished putting taxi drivers out of work yet?
22:43:48 <wob_jonas> shachaf: even without that there's a problem
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22:44:41 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the vcs can't know what files I need in the working tree to build some target or grep for something whose location I don't know. so if I want to do such things, it would have to download all files in the current revision.
23:03:53 -!- lynn__ has changed nick to lynn.
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23:09:50 <boily> `wisdom
23:09:57 <HackEgo> oklopol//oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid."
23:10:31 <shachaf> oklopol should start a HackEgo weblog
23:10:34 <shachaf> irclog
23:11:06 <shachaf> all entries must fit into a line of irc
23:12:51 <boily> oklopol disappeared a long time ago. he's like a Second Age character.
23:20:08 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
23:21:43 <boily> fungot: do you remember oklopol?
23:21:44 <fungot> boily: he just announced on cls once... these specs remind me a litto of hilfinger actaully
23:21:59 <boily> fungot: what's cls?
23:22:00 <fungot> boily: i only hire people with the biggest problems of an fnord, in case it didn't go bust because of lisp.
23:22:13 <boily> fungot: oh, a fnord support group.
23:22:13 <fungot> boily: i meant the english version :) unless you're looking at
23:22:30 <boily> fungot: nah, the French version usually has less content.
23:22:30 <fungot> boily: i don't think
23:22:38 <boily> fungot: yes you do, and stop being sentient.
23:23:24 -!- augur has joined.
23:26:33 <fizzie> comp.lang.scheme hth
23:29:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:29:45 <shachaf> fizzie: petition to reduce the maximum number of replies sent to one person from 5 to 3 twh
23:32:35 <Jafet> version control filesystem? clearcase is allegedly both, though few have survived to recount its appearance
23:33:43 <fizzie> shachaf: I think it's already 4.
23:35:15 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, that last one was you.
23:35:23 <shachaf> I can't really distinguish between fizzie and fungot.
23:35:23 <fungot> shachaf: somebody set bfm up the bomb.
23:35:34 <shachaf> fizzie: that makes no sense tdnh
23:35:52 <shachaf> Hmm, actually it does make sense.
23:37:56 -!- Perenelle has joined.
23:38:41 <fizzie> fungot isn't really optimized for sense.
23:38:41 <fungot> fizzie: and using fnord ram...
23:38:45 <fizzie> That, too.
23:39:10 <Perenelle> Fungot is a bot or a language?
23:39:31 <Perenelle> Excuse me (is fungot a*
23:39:31 <fungot> Perenelle: or a shell of some wider bottle."
23:39:34 <boily> Perenello. fungot is fungot.
23:39:34 <fungot> boily: i always thought it is fnord
23:39:54 <boily> hellochaf. don't you dare reduce fungot.
23:39:54 <fungot> boily: ( even matz admits that it's a more obfuscated syntax. it's something like /usr/ share/ games/ fnord
23:39:55 <Perenelle> Whew
23:40:09 <shachaf> fungot is using fnord ram?
23:40:09 <fungot> shachaf: what all other stuff being pulled out of that
23:40:12 <Perenelle> So a Markov chain
23:40:12 <shachaf> that explains it all
23:40:20 <shachaf> take that back
23:40:26 <shachaf> fungot isn't a mere Markov chain
23:40:26 <fungot> shachaf: if you're queen, you'd better not ignore it, but we do pass them to other areas or at least
23:40:27 <fizzie> shachaf: There's a Finnish proverb that says something like "you cannot take with a ladle what has been given with a spoon".
23:40:43 <Perenelle> Well he reads better than most Markov bots
23:40:57 <Perenelle> Proper sentence
23:41:12 <fizzie> ^source
23:41:12 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
23:41:20 <boily> `? shachaf
23:41:23 <HackEgo> Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:41:24 <Perenelle> Ill take a look
23:41:39 <boily> `slwd shacha//s/^/Queen /
23:41:39 <HackEgo> Roswbud!
23:41:41 <boily> `slwd shachaf//s/^/Queen /
23:41:46 <HackEgo> shachaf//Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:42:00 <Perenelle> First off what language is that
23:42:19 <fizzie> Funge-98.
23:42:49 <Perenelle> I cannot believe we have 'functional' languages that look like someone head banged a keyboard
23:43:11 <fizzie> Think "fungus", not "functional".
23:43:11 <Perenelle> But life is life
23:43:21 <Perenelle> Fungus tribal
23:43:51 <Perenelle> Fungustional
23:44:18 <boily> `? Perenelle
23:44:19 <HackEgo> Perenelle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:44:34 <fizzie> Oh, allegedly it's from "fungible" instead.
23:44:46 <boily> Perenelle: what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
23:45:10 <Perenelle> That's a question I've seen before
23:45:18 <boily> *gasp*!
23:45:27 <Perenelle> So cute
23:45:28 <boily> you were asked the The Question?
23:45:34 <Perenelle> Many times
23:45:44 <boily> you sound like somebody else.
23:46:01 <Perenelle> You make me sound like a stranger boily
23:46:28 <Perenelle> Anyways do you seek truth from that question or some random answer not entirely truth
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23:49:02 <Perenelle> 46.4398° N, 122.8468° W 158 lbs
23:49:05 <fizzie> I believe it's for a file somewhere.
23:49:33 <Perenelle> The funge language was made by who
23:49:48 <Perenelle> And who created fungot or who had the idea first
23:49:48 <fungot> Perenelle: i was technically taught the " proper" sense has to be implemented. ( note: it can be
23:49:59 <fizzie> By cpressey; It's all at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge
23:50:02 <olsner> I think fungot created befunge and then itself
23:50:03 <fungot> olsner: people who don't like you, i just wrote my first macro
23:50:11 <Perenelle> Same
23:50:36 <fizzie> Well, not all of it. In fact, I think our Befunge article could do with some improvement, both in scope and in style.
23:52:27 <boily> Perenelle: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! you are him!
23:52:47 <Perenelle> !!!!
23:52:53 <boily> should I update the File to reflect your new nick, or do you plan do use your old self?
23:53:03 <Perenelle> The former
23:53:17 <boily> consider it done.
23:53:24 <Perenelle> Thank you
23:53:30 <boily> (you weigh less than me, you fiend :P )
23:53:43 <Perenelle> I forgot your weight
23:54:11 <boily> around 165, I think? haven't checked in a long time and it didn't really change.
23:54:20 <Perenelle> That's not that much more
23:54:43 <shachaf> 165 grams?
23:54:45 <boily> well, time to make a difference by employing the Power of the Poutine.
23:54:55 <shachaf> Who is Perenelle?
23:54:58 * boily pounds shachaf
23:55:07 <shachaf> zounds!
23:55:12 <Perenelle> Oh was reading the bfunge article
23:55:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FINGERED CHICKEN).
23:55:19 <Perenelle> Be right back.
23:55:21 <fizzie> shachaf: I see you're one of those right-thinking people who disagree with kilogram being the SI base unit of mass.
23:56:35 <shachaf> Well, you don't want to go too far in the other direction either.
23:57:03 <shachaf> People can become quite cruel in that case, as demonstrated in the Milligram experiment.
23:57:26 <shachaf> fizzie: I don't think I believe in base units.
23:57:41 <Perenelle> Funge looks fungustional
23:58:29 <shachaf> `units 123 microkilograms
23:58:30 <HackEgo> ​Definition: 0.000123 kg
23:58:59 <Perenelle> Too small
23:59:17 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:59:52 <Perenelle> Who plays magic the gathering / I know about some of you.
2016-12-06
00:03:36 <Perenelle> Been awhile since I came and talked extensively in esoteric
00:03:51 <shachaf> Under what name?
00:04:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:04:19 <Perenelle> Talking in present tense
00:08:10 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode \
00:08:12 <HackEgo> ​[U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS]
00:08:14 <hppavilion[1]> Hm.
00:09:24 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
00:09:36 <Perenelle> It snowed here last night
00:10:17 -!- Perenelle has quit (Quit: Tired Zzz).
00:18:49 <izalove> someone gave me a laptop with windows vista
00:19:04 <izalove> every time i start it, i get a blue screen within a minute
00:19:15 <izalove> blue screen says hardware error
00:19:57 <izalove> i booted ubuntu from usb and it worked for several hours with no problem
00:20:26 <izalove> internet works, screen works, keyboard works, disk works
00:20:40 <izalove> how do i fix this? ;-;
00:22:11 <izalove> i don't want to reinstall windows if it's not gonna fix the problem
00:22:51 <olsner> have you run memtest?
00:23:26 <izalove> no but it worked fine with ubuntu
00:23:49 <olsner> that might just mean ubuntu failed to crash because of the problem
00:24:16 <olsner> and instead you have e.g. corrupted files or file systems
00:24:24 <hppavilion[1]> olsner: That's a horrifying sentence. Is that a joke?
00:24:39 <olsner> nope
00:24:53 <hppavilion[1]> olsner: I think I'm never going to switch to linux
00:25:05 <izalove> olsner: i used ubuntu to copy all the files to a different machine
00:25:36 <olsner> hppavilion[1]: I'm talking about the case where you have bad ram that is actually flipping bits
00:25:58 <izalove> how could ubuntu not crash in that case?
00:26:19 <olsner> good/bad luck, pretty much
00:27:52 <fizzie> Compiling something big is the traditional way of surfacing problems like that.
00:28:16 <fizzie> https://www.bitwizard.nl/sig11/ and so on.
00:28:31 <shachaf> holsner
00:29:02 <olsner> but running a memtest is good, that should either confirm or almost-exclude memory problems as the cause and you can go on to other theories or replace the ram
00:29:20 <shachaf> `wisdom olsner
00:29:22 <HackEgo> olsner//olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines.
00:29:29 <izalove> ok memtest it is
00:29:39 <shachaf> `dowg olsner
00:29:45 <olsner> dowg?
00:29:47 <HackEgo> 4366:2014-01-25 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/\$/./\' wisdom/olsner \ 4365:2014-01-24 <km̈c> echo \'olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines\' > wisdom/olsner \ 656:2012-08-16 <oerjän> learn olsner seems to exist at least.
00:30:01 <olsner> hichaf
00:30:11 <shachaf> hellolsner
00:30:41 <olsner> (and I am not actually here, ignore me while I resume procrastinihting)
00:30:48 <shachaf> `learn_append olsner His poetry's alphanumeric.
00:30:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'olsner': olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric.
00:31:33 <izalove> i was also wondering if linux is actually detecting a hardware problem and working around it
00:54:56 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
01:11:59 <zzo38> There is the rule in GURPS that a Faraday shield can block a lightning bolt spell.
01:19:42 -!- oerjan has joined.
01:20:33 <oerjan> my internet was down :(
01:21:15 <Zarutian> net erectile dysfunction? Seems you got it up again
01:21:33 <oerjan> i didn't, i just waited.
01:21:51 <oerjan> after turning off and on the router enough times.
01:22:19 <oerjan> and convincing myself the fault wasn't on my side.
01:25:28 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:38:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:59:12 <hppavilion[1]> If one chooses a random natural number, what is the probability of getting any particular random number?
02:01:12 <oerjan> 0 hth
02:01:51 <oerjan> (more seriously, a uniformly random natural number does not fit in usual probability theory)
02:02:52 <Jafet> when you choose a random natural number, you get a natural number, not a random number
02:03:02 <oerjan> that too.
02:03:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: OK, that's what I thought
02:03:23 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Crap, whoops
02:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I do feel like probability theory should have a value other than 0 for that. Using 0 bugs me.
02:04:10 <shachaf> The serious answer is not 0.
02:04:19 <shachaf> (The serious answer appears in parentheses.)
02:04:31 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, true
02:04:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: How so?
02:05:05 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: probability theory has an axiom of countable additivity, which means that for countable sets you just sum the probabilities.
02:05:30 <oerjan> as a series. which means summing 0s gives 0.
02:05:39 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if r is a randomly-chosen real in [0 -> 1], P(r = k) = ι for any constant k in [0 -> 1]
02:05:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh?
02:05:58 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Wait, what if the sum > 1?
02:06:18 * hppavilion[1] is probably confused
02:06:21 <hppavilion[1]> (pun intended)
02:06:35 <shachaf> Watch out, you don't want to do too much probability theory.
02:06:37 <oerjan> another axiom is that the probability of the whole outcome space is 1.
02:07:02 <shachaf> Bad things can happen, as specified in the axiom of countable addictivity.
02:07:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: for reals it's simpler. then the probability _is_ 0, and it works splendidly.
02:07:29 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: And also the axiom of countable acidity
02:07:34 <oerjan> (they're not countable.)
02:08:01 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh! I see what you're saying
02:08:03 <hppavilion[1]> I think
02:08:20 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, that makes sense. I was confus as to what you were saying
02:08:31 <hppavilion[1]> I thought it was something about summing distinct sets
02:08:57 <oerjan> it is, it's just that when your whole space is countalbe you can make the sets contain a single point each
02:09:02 <oerjan> *bl
02:09:32 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa, for reals?
02:10:42 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:12:00 <Jafet> the axiom of countable addictivity has been reported to leave people with a sense of disjointedness
02:12:28 <shachaf> more like scowntable
02:12:28 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If one DID make a number ι (not the definition above, that was a mistake), where sum({|countably infinitely many ιs|}) = 1, and SOMEHOW dodged all the problems and paradoxes you get with infinity and infinitessimals, would ι be an acceptable probability there?
02:12:35 <hppavilion[1]> s/make/define/
02:13:09 <oerjan> probably.
02:13:13 <hppavilion[1]> ...
02:13:27 * hppavilion[1] revokes oerjan's swatter privileges
02:13:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If you can't practice what you preach, don't preach it
02:14:25 <oerjan> i'm just demonstrating privilege hth
02:15:11 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you seem to be under the misconception that the swatter has ever been used fairly.
02:16:04 <hppavilion[1]> P(*ℕ) = ι, P(*ℝ) = 2^(-1/ι) = ι₂
02:16:16 <shachaf> oerjan is the final arbiter of swatworthiness
02:16:33 <oerjan> can we revoke hppavilion[1]'s unicode privileges instead?
02:16:35 <shachaf> He's even the arbiter where natural numbers are concerned.
02:16:39 <shachaf> oerjan: sgtm
02:17:18 <Jafet> (some addicts have also shown σ lingering behaviours)
02:17:20 <hppavilion[1]> Where *S is the probability of some element of S the one chosen when an element is chosen at random
02:17:31 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: ...divisive?
02:17:42 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: deviant?
02:17:54 <oerjan> Jafet: i don't get it.
02:18:35 <hppavilion[1]> Or, P(*S) is that probability. *S is... I don't know... short for <some random element of S> = <some independent random element of S>?
02:19:09 <hppavilion[1]> Because P(a = b) = 1/|S| for two independently-randomly-chosen elements of S a and b, right?
02:19:15 * hppavilion[1] needs to dinner
02:19:30 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: OK, how are you reading σ?
02:19:47 <hppavilion[1]> I see "sigma"
02:20:28 <oerjan> the sigma is fine. i'm wondering where lingering fits.
02:21:05 <shachaf> maybe "malingering"?
02:21:10 <oerjan> maybe.
02:21:36 <shachaf> p. sure this was your job
02:21:43 <shachaf> Anyway I didn't even manage to make "arbiter" work.
02:21:47 <Jafet> probably sure?
02:22:22 <oerjan> `? p
02:22:24 <HackEgo> P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
02:22:26 <oerjan> `? p.
02:22:27 <HackEgo> p.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:22:36 <shachaf> `dowt p
02:22:50 <HackEgo> 8981:2016-08-27 <oerjän> learn P is the complexity class of problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP. \ 8982:2016-08-27 <oerjän> learn P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
02:23:06 <shachaf> Are you sure NP isn't Nasty Problems?
02:23:44 <oerjan> `le//rn p.//P. is p. easy to understand.
02:23:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'p.': P. is p. easy to understand.
02:24:02 <oerjan> `? NP
02:24:04 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
02:24:05 <oerjan> p. sure.
02:24:27 <oerjan> i didn't say the reduction was easy.
02:25:16 <oerjan> shachaf: as an arbiter, it's obviously my job to be arbitrary.
02:25:21 <shachaf> oerjan: right
02:25:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, are all problems decision problems?
02:28:18 <oerjan> `le/rn promise problem/A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is particularly difficult.
02:28:18 <Jafet> `sled p.//sSsSs a p. good word that isS
02:28:19 <HackEgo> No output.
02:28:20 <HackEgo> Rosebud!
02:28:38 <oerjan> Jafet: slwd hth
02:28:49 <oerjan> oh duh
02:29:00 <oerjan> `le//rn promise problem//A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is particularly difficult.
02:29:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'promise problem': A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is particularly difficult.
02:29:06 <Jafet> `slwd p.//sSsSs a p. good word that isS
02:29:09 <HackEgo> p.//P. is a p. good word that is p. easy to understand.
02:29:25 <Jafet> vh
02:29:41 <shachaf> vh is nvh
02:30:24 <shachaf> `? Jafet
02:30:25 <HackEgo> Jafet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:31:19 <oerjan> `slwd promise problem//s,par.* ,p. ,
02:31:23 <HackEgo> promise problem//A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is p. difficult.
02:34:11 <shachaf> oerjan: now do all the other complexity classes twh
02:35:19 <Jafet> `? complexity class
02:35:21 <HackEgo> complexity class? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:36:13 <shachaf> p. sure P is a complexity set
02:54:50 <Jafet> `le//rn complexity class//Complexity classes are endangered creatures that lived unnoticed until the mid-20th century, when human exploitation caused many populations to collapse. The remaining specimens are now studied ethically in Canada.
02:54:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'complexity class': Complexity classes are endangered creatures that lived unnoticed until the mid-20th century, when human exploitation caused many populations to collapse. The remaining specimens are now studied ethically in Canada.
03:06:11 <shachaf> oerjan: twh
03:08:44 <Jafet> in waterloo, specifically
03:09:48 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//2s,exit 1,{ echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >\&2 ; exit 1 },
03:09:53 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || { echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >&2 ; exit 1 } \ key="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="\${1#*\$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/\$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "\$value" > "\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$key")" && echo -n "\$verb '\$key': \$(echo "\$value" | sed '
03:10:12 <oerjan> `le/rn Testing/ho
03:10:13 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/le/rn: line 7: syntax error: unexpected end of file
03:10:16 <oerjan> fff
03:11:25 <shachaf> oerjan: exit 1; hth
03:11:45 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//2s,exit 1,&;,
03:11:49 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "\$1" == ?*"\$sep"* ]] || { echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ key="\$(echo "\${1%%\$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="\${1#*\$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/\$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "\$value" > "\$(echo-p "wisdom/\$key")" && echo -n "\$verb '\$key': \$(echo "\$value" | sed
03:11:59 <oerjan> `le/rn Testing/ho
03:12:00 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
03:12:44 <shachaf> `le/rn Testing//hi
03:12:50 <HackEgo> Relearned 'testing': hi
03:13:04 <shachaf> `before
03:13:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/testing//Testing is mandatory.
03:40:57 <oerjan> `dowg oklopol
03:41:01 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:41:04 <oerjan> huh
03:41:19 <izalove> guess who wrote the first piece of inutility that recurses in a directory tree
03:41:24 <izalove> ok i'll tell you: it was me
03:41:29 <oerjan> OKAY
03:41:40 <izalove> \o/
03:42:32 <oerjan> (what's inutility)
03:43:16 <izalove> a collection of small linux utilities
03:46:14 <oerjan> sounds inusefule
03:46:18 <oerjan> argh
03:46:30 * oerjan starts chasing muphry with the saucepan ===\__/
03:46:35 <oerjan> also, food ->
03:46:36 <zzo38> What is it doing though?
03:47:21 <izalove> `? muphry
03:47:22 <HackEgo> muphry? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:47:56 <zzo38> I wrote a program called "lease" which is specific to Linux. (It simply waits until a file is accessed, and then terminates.)
03:48:09 <izalove> with inotify?
03:48:34 <shachaf> Why did you write it rather than using e.g. inotifywait?
03:48:48 <zzo38> No, it uses fcntl
03:48:51 <izalove> maybe they didn't know about inotifywait
03:49:09 <izalove> uh how does that work?
03:49:09 <zzo38> shachaf: For one thing, I didn't know about it.
03:49:38 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/dAQh
03:49:45 <zzo38> That is how it works.
03:50:46 <shachaf> Aha.
03:51:40 <hppavilion[1]> It'd be really nice to be able to use a computer entirely without a mouse most of the time...
03:51:53 <izalove> zzo38: what happens if you remove the second fcntl call?
03:52:02 <hppavilion[1]> Like, what if I had a tiny command prompt in the corner of my screen I could just trigger whenever that does everything nicely?
03:52:11 <zzo38> izalove: Probably nothing
03:52:27 <zzo38> s/nothing/not cause any problem/
03:53:58 <zzo38> Also this program is very small compared to inotifywait
03:55:54 <izalove> hppavilion[1]: with urxvt+bspwm+vimperator i almost never use a mouse
04:11:27 <tswett> So I realized the other day...
04:12:14 <tswett> It's plausible that Goldbach's conjecture is false (there is an even number no smaller than 4 which is not the sum of two prime numbers), but that this cannot be feasibly proven within ZFC.
04:14:01 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Not if you define 1 to be prime.
04:14:24 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: And defining 1 as prime or non-prime is actually just arbitrary
04:14:50 <izalove> how does that even help
04:14:59 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: you're making my blood simmer.
04:15:05 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: How so?
04:15:11 * hppavilion[1] does not smile
04:16:18 <tswett> The number-of-prime-divisors function clearly should say 0 for 1.
04:16:27 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Well yeah
04:16:35 <hppavilion[1]> It is nicer that way, true
04:16:38 <hppavilion[1]> Carry on
04:16:50 <tswett> Number-of-prime-divisors-including-duplicates, that is.
04:17:26 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Well, yes. I call the bag of prime divisors of n ςn, so you could say |ςn|
04:17:34 <tswett> Yeah, that.
04:18:51 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: OH! I see, I read tswett's message wrong
04:18:57 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: sorry
04:57:07 <izalove> from man sponge
04:57:09 <izalove> -a Replace the file with a new file that contains the file's original content, with the standard
04:57:11 <izalove> input appended to it. This is done atomically when possible.
04:57:37 <izalove> atomically when possible in this case just means to use rename when the file didn't exist
04:57:56 <izalove> is there any filesystem that allows concatenating two files atomically?
04:58:02 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: What if I want to prepend?
04:58:10 <izalove> you don't use -a
04:58:18 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
04:58:23 <hppavilion[1]> I don't have sponge, so I can't manit
05:03:01 -!- otherbot has joined.
05:09:14 <zzo38> Cumulative upkeep--untap a nontoken creature
05:21:41 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode ΧΡ
05:21:43 <HackEgo> ​[U+03A7 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER CHI] [U+03A1 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER RHO]
05:22:25 <\oren\> `unidecode ℴ
05:22:28 <HackEgo> ​[U+2134 SCRIPT SMALL O]
05:23:29 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode ꙮ
05:23:30 <HackEgo> ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
05:23:37 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I win the unidecꙮding contest
05:23:41 <myname> windows chi rho
05:24:26 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Mein Gott...
05:24:52 <myname> was denn?
05:25:55 * hppavilion[1] gets his german-to-english dictionary
05:26:42 <myname> by the way, duolingo actually does a pretty good job at that
05:27:04 <myname> it has fewer words that say leo, but it has more phrase-like stuff
05:27:18 <hppavilion[1]> (ꙮ_ꙮ is a nice emoticon)
05:27:51 <myname> damn
05:27:55 <myname> i meant beolingus
05:29:10 <myname> it doesn't work well on this one, though
05:31:46 * hppavilion[1] returns with his dictionary
05:31:54 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Mine is... Collins
05:31:58 <hppavilion[1]> It appears
05:34:42 <myname> it's actually pretty hard to translate, i'm surprised
05:34:59 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Windows XP -> Windows Chi Rho. Das denn.
05:36:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: OK, just to check, does standard QWERTZ have a slash I can do commands with?
05:36:44 <myname> shift+7?
05:37:25 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Looks like slash is shift+7, back slash is Alt-Gr+ß.
05:37:33 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Ah, ja
05:37:36 <myname> it is
05:40:46 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of Magic: the Gathering card: Cast target permanent.
05:41:24 <myname> what would that do to say "your opponent loses one health"?
05:41:48 <zzo38> ?
05:42:04 <zzo38> I do not quite understand you?
05:42:24 <myname> okay, i may not understand your desired effect correctly
05:44:19 <zzo38> I mean what it says
05:44:45 <myname> i am not familiar with mtg
05:46:05 <zzo38> Then you must learn. http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/
05:46:16 <shachaf> Must you?
05:46:34 <myname> nah, i donjt find it that interesting
05:48:40 <hppavilion[1]> oh, mein Wörterbuch aufliste "ASCII"
05:49:15 * hppavilion[1] hopes that's even remotely correct
05:50:15 <myname> i am not sure what "listing ascii" is supposed to mean, but you'd say "listet ascii auf"
05:50:33 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Ah, danke
05:51:46 <hppavilion[1]> myname: So "mein Wörterbuch listet ascii auf"?
05:52:27 <hppavilion[1]> [to mean that it has an entry to translate ASCII into german]
05:52:52 <myname> fair enough
05:53:06 <myname> what does it translate to?
05:53:44 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm attempting to say "Oh, my dictionary lists ASCII". In retrospect, "lists" may have been bad word choice, because it doesn't even sound normal in english xD
05:53:57 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Oh!
05:54:08 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Just ASCII. I thought it was interesting because it seems obvious
05:54:18 * hppavilion[1] is bad at communicating in any language it seems
05:54:45 <myname> i don't see any reason to translate acronyms
05:55:02 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yeah
05:55:19 <hppavilion[1]> It seems straightforward
05:55:32 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe ascii is in such common use people are beginning to forget it's an acronym?
05:55:43 <hppavilion[1]> Seems unlikely, but mayb
05:55:44 <hppavilion[1]> *+e
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09:13:22 <\oren\> `quote
09:13:31 <HackEgo> 709) <monqy> Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird
09:26:41 <\oren\> `quote
09:26:44 <HackEgo> 984) <Bike> W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. <Bike> Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. <Bike> It literally says that
09:28:30 <\oren\> oedp
09:29:08 <\oren\> `quote
09:29:10 <HackEgo> 371) <Gregor> oklopol: Why do you have so much experience with hoop-and-stick? :P <oklopol> Gregor: my fetish: learning pointless skills
09:32:41 <int-e> wow, transcomplex
09:33:19 <int-e> . o O ( It's so messy that we simply think of it as goo. We don't know how it works but it works. )
09:37:20 <\oren\> `quote
09:37:21 <HackEgo> 624) <oerjan> wolfram armageddon, the genius overlord game
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09:54:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50459&oldid=50436 * L3viathan * (+75) add link to Rust implementation
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10:08:03 <b_jonas> whoa... another ais523 esolang
10:17:02 <olsner> aah, monqy and 'hi' memes, good old esoteric times
10:20:14 <b_jonas> ARGH trivial brainfuck substitutions have now spread to non-brainfuck esolangs. I don't know if I should consider that a good or a bad thing. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Underload
10:24:50 <b_jonas> oh! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Incident#O.28log_n.29_version
10:28:10 <b_jonas> apparently oerjan has a construction
10:28:55 <nvd> `? fuzzy prolog
10:28:57 <HackEgo> fuzzy prolog? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:29:30 <b_jonas> scary
10:37:21 <Jafet> subjectivist prolog
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11:36:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emotinomicon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50460 * B jonas * (+502) Created page with "'''Emotinomicon''' is a stack-based language by [[User:Conor O'Brien]]. Source code in this language is text built from emoticon characters. The language is likely Turing-co..."
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11:47:20 <boily> `wisdom
11:47:28 <HackEgo> ehlist//ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/
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12:37:15 <izalove> how often do non-vegetarian humans eat meat on avg? like, 2-4 times a week?
12:37:36 <izalove> dog food contains meat, dogs eat meat twice a day
12:37:58 <izalove> so to prove that you love animals you have to feed your dog other animals
12:39:18 <nvd> Or get a hamster
12:39:42 <izalove> yeah we love animals so let's get rid of dogs
12:46:37 <b_jonas> izalove: I personally eat meat more than once per day, in particular, I insist on eating meat for the main course of the biggest meal (lunch or dinner) of the day, and often eat meat other times too,
12:46:47 <b_jonas> provided you use a permissive enough definition of meat.
12:47:06 <LKoen> I eat meat at every lunch
12:47:18 <izalove> b_jonas: meat is a spectrum?
12:47:27 <LKoen> because I eat at the university restaurant and they don't know about vegetables
12:47:38 <LKoen> (someone seriously needs to tell them)
12:49:25 <b_jonas> izalove: for the purposes of this quest, food made of ground meat or sausages of any kind that isn't clearly a vegetarian sausage counts as meat, even if it actually has low meat content; also liver and other internals are meat; and fish meat is still meat.
12:49:57 <b_jonas> izalove: basically each vegetarian uses different definitions of what he doesn't eat, so you need ot clarify this stuff
12:50:08 <izalove> didn't know that
12:50:20 <izalove> so some vegetarians can eat salami?
12:50:22 <b_jonas> but the stuff I eat as meat is probably things most vegetarians don't eat
12:50:30 <b_jonas> izalove: no, but some vegetarians might eat fish
12:50:34 <izalove> ok
12:50:38 <izalove> that i knew
12:52:21 <b_jonas> the sausages definitely have some meat, so vegetarians don't eat them, it's just that some of the low quality ones have so little meat and so much fat and skin and other animal parts that we don't dare calling it real meat
12:54:09 <b_jonas> basically, some "meat products" are made like this: you take the meat out of the pig because that thing is valuable, then ground the rest of the pig to very small particles and crush it together to a pink mostly homogenous thing and then heat it up for hygienic reasons. the result is clearly something a vegetarian won't eat,
12:54:30 <b_jonas> but as a real meat-eater I have some hesitation of calling it meat, just like I have hesitation to call a Trabant a car
12:54:34 <FireFly> Yeah, fish I think is the main thing that is a bit arguable
12:54:50 <b_jonas> If you invite me to a meat dinner, and then buy me some of those meat products, I'll be disappointed.
12:55:09 <b_jonas> Accordingly, I try to eat real meat most of the time, but I don't want to claim that I eat real meat every day.
12:55:30 <FireFly> <izalove> how often do non-vegetarian humans eat meat on avg? like, 2-4 times a week? ← I mean, would you count a slice of ham or salami or something on a sandwich?
12:55:46 <FireFly> it feels like it's hard to quantify properly
12:57:00 <izalove> idk i was talking about lunch or dinner
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12:57:30 <FireFly> I would probably say most dishes then, I guess
12:57:30 <b_jonas> FireFly: "how many times" is also hard to count: if for lunch I eat real chicken meat in a good meat soup (broth or bouillon or whatever you call that stuff) and then I eat real meat for main course, then how much do I have to wait between the two to count as eating meat twice
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13:33:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tiny]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50461&oldid=33690 * Ron.hudson * (+141)
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14:03:06 <b_jonas> there always is a catch
14:06:10 <b_jonas> I knew there'd be one, but couldn't see it
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15:27:29 <moony> moo5
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17:27:57 <\oren\> Cats are also obliagte carnivores
17:28:58 <\oren\> and if you have mice infesting your neighbourhood, you don't need to feed them as much
17:30:26 <\oren\> I have meat as part of my dinner pretty much every day
17:30:30 <izalove> cloudatcost support just replied to my ticket
17:30:34 <izalove> AFTER 25 DAYS
17:31:06 <\oren\> izalove: presumably it is cheaper than AWS right?
17:31:40 <izalove> well it was \$21/lifetime
17:32:20 <izalove> so aws is probably cheaper if you have cancer
17:34:13 <\oren\> ok, so yeah, you're getting what youre paying for
17:35:18 <int-e> izalove: so was the reply in any way constructive?
17:36:13 <int-e> 21 days uptime and no disk read or write error... what's happening!
17:36:19 <int-e> (speaking of CaC)
17:37:01 <izalove> int-e: http://i.imgur.com/nQmEFOk.png
17:37:56 <izalove> that issue was resolved like 3 days later
17:40:11 <int-e> well at least you got the (I'm assuming...) Senior Support Engineer to reply to you... sure must feel good :P
17:58:50 <\oren\> Trump just tanked Boeing's stock with a tweet
18:03:17 <ybden> \oren\: oh?
18:03:43 <\oren\> He says the new Air Force One is overpriced and he'll cancelt heir contract
18:05:00 <ybden> I wonder how much he's going to destroy whilst he's president
18:05:17 <ybden> izalove: Huh. I wonder how they're able to provide such cheap services
18:05:18 <\oren\> a new and terrifying reign of terror for governemnt contractors
18:05:25 <\oren\> lol
18:06:35 <ybden> Oh, you can only choose between Ubuntu, CentOS, Windows and FreeBSD
18:06:37 <ybden> That's a be meh
18:06:54 <ybden> “The CloudatCost Datacenter is located in Canada, Eh!” lol
18:07:44 <int-e> ybden: the official story is that they're a side business of a telco so traffic and housing is essentially free to them. previous speculation on this channel points towards a pyramid scheme, essentially. it's *really* hard to tell, because they offer larger servers with regular payments... so it depends on how many of these people are actually paying for.
18:08:13 <ybden> int-e: I see.
18:08:38 <ybden> The pyramid scheme is probably more likely :P
18:09:25 <int-e> And in any case, if they stop being profitable, bankruptcy trumps life-time contracts.
18:09:51 <ybden> Indeed
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18:13:01 <int-e> Anyway at this point I'm below \$1/month of disservice, so it's all fine :P
18:16:02 <\oren\> lol, this unicode mailing list
18:16:07 <\oren\> quote:
18:16:09 <\oren\> How about package names like ロシアМС21(Note the МС are Cyrillic), or πr²の秘密, or エリ_хорошо_μ'sic_4⃣ever? Although they aren't really names that people would usually use in package/var names, they are meaningful names...
18:16:19 <int-e> Emoji were a mistake?
18:17:02 <\oren\> int-e: they're arguing over how to prevent name spoofing in source code
18:17:08 <int-e> `unidecode 4⃣
18:17:20 <HackEgo> ​[U+0034 DIGIT FOUR] [U+20E3 COMBINING ENCLOSING KEYCAP]
18:17:25 <\oren\> argh
18:17:33 <\oren\> I need to add that too?!?!?!
18:17:39 <int-e> ah.HackEgo:
18:17:55 <int-e> what's エリ?
18:18:03 <\oren\> eri
18:18:56 <\oren\> or maybe eli
18:19:02 <Zarutian> first I heard the word Emoji I thought it was something like Emo-Ji, an ridiculus card game played by emo kids
18:19:27 <int-e> e(l|r)i good music forever?
18:19:48 <\oren\> int-e: it's a reference to Love Live's http://love-live.wikia.com/wiki/Ayase_Eli and I am somewhat embarrassed for knowing all about it
18:20:35 <int-e> that does make sense...
18:21:41 <FireFly> \oren\: hm, those examples are actually worse than what I usually see when it comes to japanese titles of things
18:22:07 <ybden> int-e: is the service really that bad?
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18:24:57 <int-e> ybden: well for most of the time (23 months now) my VM would have the occasional write error to the storage device, causing it to mount the FS read-only and become unusable. I haven't tried customer support. From what I've seen the VMs tend to be sluggish (see HackEgo). But it could be far worse... as far as I know VMs don't simply disappear or reboot spontaneously, for example.
18:25:17 <ybden> Ah.
18:25:46 <int-e> I have actually lost data though (nothing that wasn't backed up or easy to recreate; I never put anything important there in the first place).
18:26:57 <int-e> where "occasional" averages at every 2 or 3 weeks so far.
18:29:32 <ybden> D:
18:35:41 <int-e> oh there's also this story http://www.cloudatacost.com/
18:35:52 <int-e> (with a brilliant domain name)
18:38:29 <int-e> I think I read that before I bought that VM.
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22:27:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50462 * Redstarcoder * (+9621) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=*><>}} '''*><>''' (pronounced as "starfish") is a [[Push-down_automaton|stack-based]], reflective, two-dimensional esoteric programming language based dire..."
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22:51:18 <boily> @messages-fnord
22:51:18 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
22:51:21 <boily> beuh...
22:51:24 <boily> @massages-loud
22:51:24 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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22:54:52 <boily> int-e: int-ello. lambdie isn't fnordular enough hth
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23:04:15 <boily> @tell hppavilion[1] hppavellon[1]. proper gender-neutral pronouns are shi and hir hth
23:04:15 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:04:37 <shachaf> un cabot
23:05:04 <boily> bonshachoir. rien de tel qu'un bon cabot pour enjoyer la soirée.
23:06:22 <shachaf> rien de tel que un bon cabot
23:06:45 <boily> «qu'un». «-e» and «u-» merge together.
23:06:52 <shachaf> i do not use contractions hth
23:07:17 <boily> you ought to jqça.
23:11:51 <boily> the reddit admins modified the way votes count. the sudden spike is jarring.
23:12:10 <int-e> boily: you do realize that I'm tempted to have a per-channel edit distance setting just so I can set it to 0 for #esoteric?
23:13:06 <int-e> (but fortunately for you all there's currently no infrastructure for per channel settings at all.)
23:13:59 <Zarutian> boily: in what way do the votes count now?
23:15:47 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think those contractions (removing the last vowel of the words "le la que de je se me te ce ne" when a vowel follows) are mandatory.
23:16:40 <shachaf> wob_jonas: then how come i managed not to use them hth
23:17:33 <boily> wob_jellonas. they are grammatically mandated.
23:18:47 <wob_jonas> The optional contractions are basically the silent schwas, which means that the vowel "e" when it would be pronounced as [ə] need not be pronounced, but that doesn't change writing, except that it must be pronounced when it's necessary to break up a cluster of three actually pronounced consonants (sometimes there's a choice of which schwa you prono
23:18:47 <wob_jonas> unce there) or it's the vowel in "que" or you're singing an opera.
23:20:52 <wob_jonas> Also there are informal optional contractions that come from (a) sometimes dropping the vowel of some of those words listed above even when not followed by a vowel, and (b) dropping a consonant from a consonant cluster in some cases.
23:21:10 <Zarutian> boily: aand what was the point of that change?
23:21:41 <wob_jonas> You don't have to use any of these informal contractions, but you'd better recognize them if you want to understand spoken French... though that's impossible anyway, so don't bother.
23:22:12 <wob_jonas> Spoken French is a speak-only language, it's pretty hard to understand.
23:22:47 <wob_jonas> (I wonder if it's more speak-only than Japanese, but someone who is proficient in both of those would have to tell.)
23:22:49 <boily> Zarutian: no idea what for it was to.
23:23:42 <boily> wob_jonas: spoken French is easy, tsé.
23:24:00 <wob_jonas> easy to produce
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23:25:11 <wob_jonas> My main problem with spoken French is that there are neither significant vowel length differences nor significant stress differences to break up a sentence.
23:26:05 <wob_jonas> And that results in too few entropy in the syllables and so too many ambiguities, though there's effectively still much more entropy per syllable than in Japanese.
23:27:58 <Zarutian> boily: I thought posts were simply ordered by inverse of 'expiry' unix timestamp (upvotes just moved the expiry further into the future while downvotes did the opposite). (Expiry started as default <timestamp of post> + <one day worth of seconds>)
23:28:19 <LKoen> wob_jonas: I'm pretty sure there are a lot of hints to break the sentences
23:29:09 <LKoen> because the quality of grammar and punctuation in newspaper has decreased pretty abruptly over the past few years
23:29:31 <LKoen> and when reading an article out loud I can hear that the music of it is all wrong
23:29:46 <LKoen> the sentences break at the wrong places
23:29:48 <Zarutian> boily: (basically the post with the expiry furthest into the future is displayed first, then the next furthers one and so on)
23:30:00 <boily> Zarutian: that's how it approximatively worked, plus a fortuitous implementation bug where if the first vote was an upvote, the post got catapulted up front.
23:30:57 <boily> wob_jonas: it depends on the variety of spoken French. some of them have overlong vowels.
23:31:19 <wob_jonas> wob_jonas: overlong vowels for what function? as in, which vowels are overlong?
23:36:23 <wob_jonas> In Hungarian, we have stress and some phonology clues to break sentences to words: stress is always on the first syllable of a word, consonant clusters are usually either at word boundaries or at the start of grammatical inflections or in the syllable before them (and you distinguish between these by recognizing inflections),
23:38:34 <boily> stress happens on the last syllable. vowels with circumflexes are long (that distinction is lost in Metropolitan French).
23:39:29 <boily> clusters are hard to categorize. devoiced vowels happen all the time and give a Japanese feeling to words.
23:39:34 <wob_jonas> vowels have a somewhat different distribution in different parts of the word, which can help guess boundaries, and "a" before a stressed syllable is very often an article; as a result most of the ambiguities comes from when you don't know if a consonant is starting a word or ending the previous word, even though you can tell which syllables are in
23:39:34 <wob_jonas> the same word.
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23:41:15 <wob_jonas> boily: which sort of vowels with circumflexes? the hôtel/fenêtre type that comes from etimology, the vowels in passé simple and past conditional forms, or the vowels that are circumflexed only for disambiguation like dû?
23:42:28 <boily> the etymological kind and conjugation one. circumflexes for disambiguation are pronounced the same as without.
23:43:14 <boily> although you may hear a difference between fr:à → en:to, and fr:a → en:(he/she/it) has.
23:43:28 <wob_jonas> s| dû| dû/ãge|
23:45:27 <wob_jonas> boily: difference between à and a (form of avoir)? hmm...
23:45:52 <boily> à is /æ/, and a is /ɑ/.
23:46:05 <wob_jonas> I wonder how that works
23:46:48 <boily> I think that one is dialectal only, but this is an unfounded conjecture.
23:48:08 <wob_jonas> and are other not very rare words pronounced as /æ/ too? or is /æ/ a definite clue for that one word?
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23:49:21 <boily> /æ/ is definitely à, and nothing else.
23:51:16 <boily> the [æ] sound will appear in «ma ta sa», but it'll be preceded by those clear consonants, so there's no ambiguity in there.
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23:53:42 <\oren\> the correct gender neutral pronoun is "that person".
23:53:56 <boily> \bonsoiren\.
23:54:24 <wob_jonas> Intersting.
23:55:19 <wob_jonas> Obviously spoken Hungarian is still hard enough to interpret, especially if it comes through a noisy channel, and a large part of my problem with spoken French is just that I'm not used to it.
23:55:40 <\oren\> in japanese it's sonohito which gets weirdified until it sounds almost like sonofto
23:55:51 <boily> of course, you can use contrived examples like «ma pelle m'apelle».
23:56:36 <wob_jonas> And also that reading written English or written French is easy because the grammar has a lot of similarities to Hungarian, and that's what I'm used to, whereas Hungarian doesn't help much if I try to listen to French or if I tried to learn to read Japanese or whatever.
23:57:07 <\oren\> like, you have to learn to pronounce an h at the beginning of a consonant cluster
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23:59:22 <\oren\> heppavelloin[!]
2016-12-07
00:02:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50463&oldid=50462 * Redstarcoder * (+33) /* Concepts */
00:02:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50464&oldid=50444 * Redstarcoder * (+20) /* Non-alphabetic */ Added *><>
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00:19:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50465&oldid=50463 * Redstarcoder * (-50)
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00:47:26 <oerjan> there appears to be a nearly 2 hour gap in the logs. if anyone said anything of interest, please repeat it here twh
00:47:42 * oerjan whistles innocently
00:48:13 <oerjan> `quote 709
00:48:22 <HackEgo> 709) <monqy> Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird
00:48:58 <oerjan> and then it gweirdot, but i think monqy was gone by then.
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00:49:41 <oerjan> (boilyh)
00:49:43 <boily> hellørjan. which two hours twh
00:50:05 <boily> `? gweirdot
00:50:07 <HackEgo> gweirdot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:50:23 <shachaf> oerjan: When was the gap?
00:50:26 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
00:50:31 <oerjan> from 01:33 to 3:20 tunes time hth
00:51:09 <shachaf> I'll give you the missing bits.
00:51:20 <oerjan> yay
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00:52:09 <shachaf> `? oerjan
00:52:12 <HackEgo> Your golfing @massages-lord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:52:19 <shachaf> `slwrjan s#golfing#completionist#
00:52:35 <shachaf> `doag bin/slwrjan
00:52:45 <HackEgo> 9808:2016-11-30 <shachäf> ` mv bin/s{l,}wrjan # no slash \ 9700:2016-11-17 <shachäf> mkx bin/slwrjan//slwd "oerjan//\$1"
00:52:53 <shachaf> Oh, right.
00:53:20 <shachaf> `swrjan s#golfing#completionist#; soaoeo
00:53:24 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your completionist @messages-lord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:54:02 <boily> oerjan doesn't massage; I do.
00:57:53 <\oren\> how did you italic?
00:58:36 <shachaf> izalove taught me
00:58:43 <shachaf> normally you have to be italian
00:59:00 <oerjan> what italic, i see reverse video hth
00:59:44 <\oren\> I can do 𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑐 like this
01:00:13 <\oren\> but I think the way hackego is doing it, it looks different
01:00:32 <shachaf> reverse video
01:00:41 <\oren\> thats italic for me
01:00:59 <boily> both are reverse for me.
01:01:12 <boily> the onlitalic I saw was the \oren\ one.
01:02:37 <\oren\> I did it using unicode
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01:03:06 <boily> mhelloony. are you italic?
01:03:17 <\oren\> test
01:04:09 <boily> bold.
01:05:10 <\oren\> test
01:05:16 <\oren\> test
01:05:25 <boily> space test, and respace retest.
01:05:30 <shachaf> That's quite rude.
01:05:39 <boily> there was a beep?
01:05:47 <\oren\> I used control G
01:05:59 <\oren\> test
01:06:30 <\oren\> test
01:06:46 <boily> rerespace reretest, reand rererespace rereretest.
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01:10:50 <shachaf> `? cdop
01:10:53 <HackEgo> CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order.
01:16:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:17:04 <oerjan> `swrjan s/oerjan/swr &/
01:17:08 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your completionist @messages-lord swr oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:17:28 -!- yorick has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
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01:22:00 <boily> `? boily
01:22:01 <HackEgo> ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:22:15 <boily> one measly character less. that is unacceptable!
01:22:24 <Zarutian> `? Zarutian
01:22:26 <HackEgo> You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as a techincian, banal mistakes of engineers. Also a provider of authentic fakes.
01:23:22 * ybden s at shachaf
01:23:41 <shachaf> Was that a ^G?
01:24:26 <shachaf> Yes.
01:24:41 <shachaf> Why does asking people not to do things cause them to do those things?
01:24:45 <\oren\> `` head -c 10 wisdom/oerjan | od -c
01:24:46 <HackEgo> 0000000 Y o u r 026 c o m p \ 0000012
01:25:16 <\oren\> test
01:26:06 <\oren\> test
01:26:09 <\oren\> YES
01:26:18 <\oren\> control V
01:26:55 <\oren\> hooray hooray its a glorius day for I have found my cow!
01:27:15 -!- shachaf has left.
01:28:04 <ybden> I suppose since shachaf is gone, there is no need to stop
01:28:37 <\oren\>
01:28:50 <\oren\> i suppose so
01:29:57 <ybden> @tell shachaf I believe it's called reverse psychology hth
01:29:57 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:30:16 * boily mapoles \oren\
01:32:37 <Zarutian> `le/rn Zarutian/You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:32:39 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
01:32:55 <Zarutian> `le//rn Zarutian/You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:32:57 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
01:33:07 <Zarutian> `le//rn Zarutian//You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:33:10 <HackEgo> Relearned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider
01:34:48 * boily fears Zarutian's unnerver
01:37:42 <ybden> `? Zarutian
01:37:44 <HackEgo> You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild
01:37:50 <Zarutian> `le//rn Icelandic unnerver/An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:37:51 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
01:38:07 <Zarutian> hmm? how does one append?
01:38:13 <Zarutian> `le//rn Icelandic unnerver//An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:38:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'icelandic unnerver': An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:38:45 <fizzie> `` ls bin/*append*
01:38:47 <HackEgo> bin/append \ bin/learn_append \ bin/learn_append2
01:39:09 <boily> Zarutian: are you a VX junkie, by chance?
01:39:18 <boily> fizziello.
01:39:32 <fizzie> I met an Icelandic person today.
01:39:47 <Zarutian> `le//rn_append Zarutian// of Realers.
01:39:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
01:40:22 <Zarutian> `learn_append Zarutian of Realers.
01:40:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
01:40:47 <Zarutian> `? Zarutian
01:40:50 <HackEgo> You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild
01:41:05 <Zarutian> boily: VX?
01:41:17 <boily> https://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/
01:42:04 <fizzie> `` tail -c 50 wisdom/zarutian # Zarutian: I think you overcompensated.
01:42:05 <HackEgo> om the guild of Realers. of Realers. of Realers.
01:42:18 <Zarutian> damn
01:42:42 <boily> `quote april lavigne
01:42:43 <HackEgo> No output.
01:42:48 <boily> `quote airbus
01:42:49 <HackEgo> 96) <fungot> AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. \ 923) <fungot> kmc: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there \ 1031) <fungot> boily: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there
01:42:50 <Zarutian> `le//rn Zarutian//You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild
01:42:52 <HackEgo> Relearned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider
01:43:24 <Zarutian> `learn_append Zarutian of Realers.
01:43:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
01:45:29 <oerjan> internet connection disappeared again... only lasted about 27 mins though
01:46:42 <oerjan> <shachaf> Why does asking people not to do things cause them to do those things? <-- law of attraction hth htht
01:46:53 <oerjan> (argh)
01:47:10 <ybden> oerjan: shachaf isn't present hth
01:47:12 <oerjan> (net is still laggy which hurts my typing)
01:53:26 <oerjan> ybden: he's probably destined to avoid learning that, then.
01:53:54 <ybden> oh well
01:54:22 <oerjan> `slwd icelandic unnerver//s/../An Icelandic unnerver is a/
01:54:26 <HackEgo> icelandic unnerver//An Icelandic unnerver is a steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:56:53 * boily is right in being afraid of Zarutian's unnerver.
01:59:01 <oerjan> `` tail -c 50 wisdom/zarutian
01:59:02 <HackEgo> ​ fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:59:25 <oerjan> `slwd zarutian//s/ of/ of/
01:59:28 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
01:59:46 <oerjan> Zarutian: the entry itself is fine, you're just hitting HackEgo's output length limit
02:00:01 <boily> `slwd zarutian//s/, h/. H/
02:00:04 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
02:00:17 <boily> what's an ocap?
02:00:21 <ybden> Aww, 'tis no longer the recreational end.
02:00:39 <oerjan> ybden: what?
02:00:47 <Zarutian> oerjan: cant HackEgo break the output into numerous PRIVMSGes?
02:01:00 <boily> `slwd zarutian//sse\sese\s\ses
02:01:02 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
02:01:42 <ybden> oerjan: 'twas originally "[...] that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its recreational end. [...]" hth
02:01:58 <boily> Zarutian: did I encocoonspirate you with the Wisdom Repository yet?
02:02:25 <Zarutian> ybden: what are you talking about?
02:02:38 <oerjan> also, even the // version of append inserts a space. it's rarely needed though since learn_append works for anything not containing spaces in the key.
02:02:39 <Zarutian> `? Icelandic unnerver
02:02:40 <HackEgo> An Icelandic unnerver is a steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
02:02:57 <ybden> Er, wasn't originally
02:03:06 <ybden> At some point, it was changed to the recreational end
02:03:10 <ybden> And then back to business end
02:03:38 <Zarutian> ybden: are you sure? ;-Þ
02:03:52 <ybden> ...yes
02:04:04 <ybden> < Zarutian> `le//rn Icelandic unnerver//An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
02:04:05 <boily> Zarutian: could you github me please?
02:04:32 <oerjan> <Zarutian> oerjan: cant HackEgo break the output into numerous PRIVMSGes? <-- it never answers a single command with more than one line. this is a feature. we have some commands for splitting up, but you need to ask for the next line.
02:05:29 <oerjan> `1 \? zarutian
02:05:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
02:07:01 <oerjan> `spam
02:07:02 <HackEgo> 2/2: seal from the guild of Realers.
02:14:06 <Jafet> @ask tswett it may even be possible that we can prove Goldbach's conjecture in ZFC, and there exists a counterexample too large to be effectively described in ZFC
02:14:06 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:15:22 <oerjan> Jafet: but then ZFC is inconsistent.
02:16:08 <oerjan> since any counterexample can be checked in finite time.
02:19:22 <izalove> why do people even care about goldbach?
02:19:25 <izalove> it's a stupid problem
02:19:42 <izalove> i can come up with dozens of stupid problems like that
02:19:47 <izalove> that can take centuries to solve
02:20:07 <oerjan> that are as simple?
02:20:08 <izalove> it has no application whatsoever
02:20:36 <oerjan> neither did fermat's last theorem, yet trying to solve it launched modern algebra.
02:21:44 <izalove> but then after that initial input it was irrelevant for a century?
02:22:10 <oerjan> i don't know much about that.
02:23:30 <oerjan> "why do people even care about anything that has no applications"
02:24:02 <oerjan> that's essentially what you're asking.
02:25:01 <Jafet> modern algebra proved fermat's last theorem by accident, for the most part
02:25:03 <izalove> sort of, but applications in this case can also mean theoretical applications
02:25:15 <izalove> Jafet: think older modern algebra
02:26:34 <oerjan> what they have in common is that they are simple problems that test the limits of the available tools, challenging mathematicians to develop better tools.
02:27:37 <oerjan> the reason why they're useless is the same as the reason why they're focused on: they're the simplest too hard problems of their kind.
02:30:11 <oerjan> also, they _do_ get some excessive attention because they're simple enough to be understood by a non-professional mathematician.
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02:46:46 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 23.916 184000 dawn
02:46:46 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 60438.9967102714
02:46:57 <\oren\> that oughta do it
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05:13:59 <oerjan> freefall :P
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05:18:40 <hppavilion[1]> Someone please calculate d(the Universe)/dt
05:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-poud
05:18:45 <lambdabot> boily said 6h 14m 29s ago: hppavellon[1]. proper gender-neutral pronouns are shi and hir hth
05:19:16 <mad> does the universe have a spectrum?
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06:01:12 <pikhq> https://github.com/pjf/rickastley I believe this concept will have broad approval.
06:01:18 <pikhq> For a brief presentation on the subject, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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06:25:47 <Perenelle> Good Evening
06:42:04 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, germany was trying to ban adblockers at some point
06:42:29 <hppavilion[1]> But here's a problem with it: I have a pretty good feeling it's illegal to fund Nazi groups in Germany
06:42:52 <myname> the newspapers still want to d that
06:43:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
06:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> But together it would mean it's illegal to even *visit* sites used by Nazi groups (even for, say, important research purposes™), as you might inadvertently fund them via ad revenue that you can't blcok
06:44:20 <hppavilion[1]> *block
06:44:21 <hppavilion[1]> So...
06:44:57 <hppavilion[1]> [obviously this isn't REALLY what would happen, but you could still use it as a vector to get a case in assuming German law behaves in the slightest like US law)
06:45:12 <myname> i highly doubt that looking at an ad counts as funding
06:45:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's the advertiser that funds, not the visitor hth
06:46:11 <myname> also, in germany we actually have laws to follow, not this "there was a similar case somewhere else" stuff
06:46:35 <Perenelle> Wait so hppavillion[1] Isn't a nazi
06:46:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, true
06:46:41 <Perenelle> that's good to know
06:46:42 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: One l
06:46:50 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: No, I just *really* look like one
06:46:50 <Perenelle> You are?!?
06:46:55 <Perenelle> WOT
06:47:02 <myname> wat
06:47:03 <Perenelle> I'm so confuses
06:47:07 <Perenelle> Confused *
06:47:08 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: In my name. One 'l' in 'hppavilion[1]'
06:47:15 <Perenelle> Oh
06:47:42 <Perenelle> The color I have you randomly listed as is neon green on a black background
06:47:50 <Perenelle> The letters kinda fuse
06:48:04 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Oh, that setup sounds useful
06:48:24 <Perenelle> Its pretty good
06:48:39 * hppavilion[1] *may* have taught his younger sister how to do a Nazi salute, and she *may* do it on command when she hears "Sieg heil!"
06:48:47 <Perenelle> Fam
06:49:10 <myname> why?
06:49:31 <myname> that's like the most stupid thing i heard from you
06:49:39 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: What is "fam"?
06:49:45 <hppavilion[1]> myname: ...theatre purposes?
06:50:00 <hppavilion[1]> You need to do the Nazi salute in certain Sound of Music roles ips
06:50:02 <Perenelle> short for family
06:50:07 <hppavilion[1]> Oh..?
06:50:34 <Perenelle> It's commonly used to be like 'fam don't be stupid'
06:50:45 <hppavilion[1]> I have literally never heard this
06:51:55 <Perenelle> My terminal/computer/which had a cord connecting to my onsite server. R.I.P fell off my desk today because of my God damn cat
06:55:40 <Perenelle> You've never heard of it
06:55:42 <Perenelle> Ever
06:55:44 <Perenelle> Wot
06:56:17 <Perenelle> Hppavilion[1] how do you look like a nazi
06:56:25 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Scroll up
06:56:43 <hppavilion[1]> To the /me
06:56:46 <Perenelle> I joined after such
06:56:50 <hppavilion[1]> No
06:56:52 <hppavilion[1]> You didn't
06:57:00 <Perenelle> Ohthat
06:57:41 <hppavilion[1]> I also frequently draw swatikæ, but that's just because the form itself is awesome. Fuckin' Nazis made it all Nazy... can't have anything nice...
06:57:41 <Perenelle> That makes you read like a middle Schooler from America that thinks the Holocaust was funny
06:57:41 <Perenelle> Not a nazi
06:57:45 <hppavilion[1]> *grumble grumble*
06:58:00 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: I think I might have been at the time?
06:58:08 <hppavilion[1]> I don't remember. It was a while ago.
06:58:18 <hppavilion[1]> I don't *think* I ever sucked that much
06:58:19 <Perenelle> You mean the Buddhist symbol for peace
06:58:26 <Perenelle> 'Sucked'
06:58:32 <Perenelle> Emphasis
06:58:41 <mad> I have to admit that the nazis kinda lucked out on symbol lottery
06:58:45 <myname> swastika
06:58:59 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: It's just the generic symbol, really. Not associated with anything in my mind
06:59:06 <Perenelle> Succ
06:59:18 <Perenelle> sorry for my dirty reading into
06:59:22 <mad> due to the rotational symetry etc
07:00:15 <Perenelle> You'd have thought Hitler would have just rounded all the Jews or people he hated into a big cave underground and thrown some bombs in
07:00:21 <mad> people like stuff that's rotationally symmetric but not reflectively symmetric... just cause it looks cool
07:00:36 <Perenelle> But he had all these camps
07:00:36 <Perenelle> But lets digress
07:00:37 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: And to be fair, when I think "Nazis", I honestly think Enigma and incredibly engineering before Auschwitz
07:00:38 <mad> Perenelle : he didn't have time
07:00:39 <Perenelle> Away from tuis
07:00:53 <Perenelle> This
07:01:14 <mad> jews were just the start, he had a good 50+ million slavs to kill after that
07:01:25 <hppavilion[1]> The Nazis were good at everything except human rights afaict
07:01:31 <Perenelle> A programming language that runs by using different names of nazi officers as the integers and calling commands
07:01:56 <Perenelle> As far as I can tell??
07:02:00 <Perenelle> Boi
07:02:14 <Perenelle> He was a good artist
07:02:18 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Eh.
07:02:33 <Perenelle> Too bad he went blind from hysteria and went apeshit
07:02:42 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Wait, when did he go blind?
07:02:46 <Perenelle> Temporary blindness
07:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> Was it non-permanent?
07:02:48 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
07:02:48 <myname> Perenelle: actually, i know people who are trying to build something like that
07:02:56 * hppavilion[1] must finish his pun
07:02:58 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Some Nazi military strategy was decent. Hitler went out of his way to fuck it up, however.
07:03:04 <Perenelle> Ofc you do myname
07:03:11 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Yeah
07:03:17 <Perenelle> Not saying anything about you of course
07:03:29 <Perenelle> But why do you know people like that
07:03:50 <Perenelle> I try and stay away from toxic nazis
07:03:57 <pikhq> There's actually quite a lot in the Nazi regime that was a royal clusterfuck outside of human rights, TBH.
07:04:03 <Perenelle> But living in Toledo its quite hard
07:04:11 <myname> because computer scientists oftentimes have a strange kind of humor
07:04:21 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Yeah, same here; only free-range grass-fed nazis for me!
07:04:23 <pikhq> Which you might expect from a government ran as a literal dictatorship.
07:04:24 <Perenelle> The only thing that came out of ww2 was bdsm
07:04:40 <myname> huh?
07:04:43 <myname> how so
07:04:45 <Perenelle> Just look at how sexual Germany is now
07:04:52 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: ...I think we had BDSM before WWII
07:04:58 <Perenelle> Before that it was a very modest place
07:05:02 <hppavilion[1]> What is the safeword of #esoteric?
07:05:09 <mad> totalitarian states always get messed up. because people don't believe in the real world in those.
07:05:13 <Perenelle> Not as rough as it is now though
07:05:16 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: *everywhere* was very modest in the 19<40s
07:05:30 <mad> that's how communists messed up and killed dozens of millions
07:05:33 <Perenelle> Las Vegas wasn't
07:05:33 <myname> just because you don't see how many people do bdsm it does not mean people are modest
07:05:40 <doesthiswork> what about "spring awakening"?
07:05:46 <hppavilion[1]> *sigh* <horrible-pun>You know, Hitler actually had rather severe ADHD as a child, and it made school *incredibly* difficult for him.
07:05:49 <pikhq> mad: Hooray, this makes me so happy about the future.
07:06:00 <Perenelle> I have nothing against bdsm you do you
07:06:11 <mad> sorry, I cannot bring you comfort if you're in the US :o
07:06:14 <hppavilion[1]> When he grew up and came to power, he built special concentration camps to help people in a similar predicament</horrible-pun>
07:06:24 <Perenelle> just don't do it publicly
07:06:29 <Perenelle> Or do w/e
07:06:43 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Well, unless you're into that, and only specific types of public
07:06:47 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: w/e?
07:06:53 <Perenelle> Ohboy
07:06:53 <myname> Perenelle: saying ww2 lead to bdsm is like saying it lead to computers
07:07:00 <Perenelle> What ever
07:07:03 <myname> there were barely any computers around before
07:07:03 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
07:07:04 <doesthiswork> I think germany was not particularly modest compared to other places https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Awakening_%28play%29
07:07:12 <pikhq> mad: The main thing I have that's comforting is that being LGBT and from a state oppressing you for it... is valid justification for refugee status in Canada.
07:07:30 <Perenelle> Ok well maybe Germany is just very sexual
07:07:51 <Perenelle> The main food is sausage and potatoes if I recall
07:08:25 <myname> Perenelle: it's not very sexual, it just isn't as screwed up as america
07:08:51 <Perenelle> You're right
07:09:00 <myname> where it is perfectly fine to look at people getting brutally murdered, but a fraction of a second with a nipple is a big scandal
07:09:44 <Perenelle> Lets go back to the days where watching gore on international tele and newspaper was considered moral
07:10:13 <hppavilion[1]> "Georg fantasizes about his busty piano instructor, Frau Grossebustenhalter"
07:10:13 <mad> US really needs a political reform, but considering the current state of things, that's gonna take decades
07:10:33 <Perenelle> Grossebustenhalter
07:10:34 <hppavilion[1]> Is... is "busty" really a Wikipædial word?
07:10:42 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Grosse is "large"
07:11:10 <Perenelle> Gotta go sleep have work tommorow Zzzzz
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07:11:16 <myname> i don't really get the public morality standards of US
07:12:54 <hppavilion[1]> myname: How so?
07:13:37 <myname> look at my previous sentence
07:15:07 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Ah, I see
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07:16:16 <hppavilion[1]> myname: We americans don't see how you can have a man's naked ass in a PG movie, even if it's a non-sexual joke, or why you freak out over any amount of violence :P
07:17:06 <mad> myname : my pet theory: a bunch of christians are really worried at losing their culture. anything that reminds them that they're on the losing side of the culture war, such as titties, makes them freak out. violence doesn't have that effect.
07:17:21 <mad> caveat: I don't really understand american christians
07:18:13 <myname> hppavilion[1]: we don't freak out at every amount
07:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And that comparison isn't entirely fair- the difference is the fraction-of-a-second-with-a-nipple thing was the Superbowl, which is a big family thing (I hate handegg- soccer isn't much better though- and even *I* go to parties to watch the superbowl some years), so there are young children watching and when people start freaking out the children ask and the parents have to explain and on and on and on, escalating itself, etc...
07:18:54 <myname> well, i did not have any special situation in mind
07:19:22 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And also, the exposed nipple in the Superbowl wasn't exactly planned in advance, it was a mistake
07:19:40 <hppavilion[1]> People getting brutally murdered is at *least* a PG-13- R if it's sufficiently brutal- in a movie, and TV-14 or TV-MA for TV
07:19:44 <myname> the sing is, sexuality is pretty normal in comparison to violence. most parents had sex :p
07:19:53 <myname> "at least pg-13"
07:19:57 <hppavilion[1]> And those two can only be on TV at certain times after children have gone to bed
07:20:18 <myname> because, how should it be bad for a 13 year old to look at murder
07:20:30 <hppavilion[1]> myname: As a plot device? Not that bad
07:21:16 <hppavilion[1]> And they're all planned in advance and completely fictional- seeing even a non-brutal REAL murder on TV or in a movie would be an outrage no matter how many warnings and restriction you put on it
07:21:22 <myname> informative murder porn
07:21:46 <hppavilion[1]> *restriction+s
07:22:48 <myname> that would imply you take it for granted that every child knows that difference
07:23:06 <myname> bald assumption for a land that christian
07:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Everyone watching a movie with murder, yeah. You'd be hard-pressed to find a 13-year-old [barring ones with severe learning disabilities] who tells you that that person actually died
07:23:32 <hppavilion[1]> IRL
07:23:49 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Also, murder is a big part of some movie plots, and I imagine it's a lot harder to vaguely specify "murder ensues" than "coitus ensues", especially if it's a plot twist
07:24:58 <hppavilion[1]> Like, you can get the point that sex-then-happens across from a mile away with good enough euphemisms; if a character who's been good the whole movie suddenly turns out to be evil and a mole, you have to make it *very* clear so people actually believe it.
07:25:34 <hppavilion[1]> So in many cases, murder is of more vital artistic value than sex and nudity.
07:40:34 <doesthiswork> "children were watching"; children love breasts. When I was two, women would go "oh you're so cute, let me pick you up" and I would go "hello breasts, nice to meet you".
07:41:37 <doesthiswork> there are very few things more child friendly than breasts
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12:17:08 <boily> fungot: you wouldn't know where I could buy potassium permanganate in bulk, eh?
12:17:09 <fungot> boily: maybe i should stay with its own new-index) ( read-item input-string index)...)
12:17:24 <boily> fungot: searching your index for suppliers?
12:17:25 <fungot> boily: thank goodness i'm using scheme over a connection, sockets in c++ are constant pointers that are implicitly dereferenced.
12:17:53 <boily> fungot: yeah, please dereference the warehouse. it'll be easier and cheaper.
12:17:53 <fungot> boily: is it any more because otherwise you couldn't evaluate anything in the database for " ping". i didn't think it was
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13:53:06 <b_jonas> fungot, do you eat american sweet wafels with meat?
13:53:06 <fungot> b_jonas: expose? i must have been above average, if i remember correctly. or at least
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17:12:41 <\oren\> hah, javascript is clearly Tetsuo from Akira!
17:19:59 <moony> -eval thr