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00:01:42 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if you have a sorting algorithm that works in O(n log n) where n is the length of the list, but you're trying to sort based on the cardinality of prime factorization using an algorithm that runs in O(k^3) (did I not mention that someone proved that integer factorization is in P in this hypothetical scenario? :P)
00:02:59 <hppavilion[1]> Then the actual sorting would be at least O(k^3 n log n), though a few terms there might be superfluous
00:03:12 <shachaf> You can factor primes in O(1) time.
00:04:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...integer factorization. Finding the prime factorization of the number.
00:04:31 <izalove> void factor(int prime) { printf("1 %d\n", prime); }
00:05:45 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...what problem do you think I'm describing?
00:06:23 <izalove> and what part of that is log n?
00:06:35 <shachaf> And maybe the function call?
00:06:44 <shachaf> I guess that depends on your calling convention.
00:06:59 <izalove> why does printf take log n time?
00:07:14 <shachaf> Because the string length is logarithmic in the integer.
00:07:23 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You can factor a subset of wholes in O(1)
00:07:38 <shachaf> Oh, you're using real C, not hypothetical C with unbounded integers?
00:07:42 <shachaf> Then everything is O(1) hth
00:08:03 <shachaf> I should be writing a theta but I don't have the key here.
00:09:02 <izalove> `` us=( 'hppavilion[1]' shachaf izalove ); echo "${us[RANDOM%3]} is an idiot"
00:09:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You didn't declare who each number corresponds to tdnh
00:10:02 <shachaf> I don't want to declare anyone an idiot.
00:12:25 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
00:12:41 <Taneb> The who with the what now
00:14:38 <HackEgo> shachäf shachäf Tanëb oerjän boil̈y Tanëb oerjän Tanëb oerjän shachäf boil̈y oerjän shachäf shachäf shachäf oerjän Tanëb nitïa
00:15:42 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?uiet: not found
00:16:17 <Taneb> I think I will depart as quickly as I arrived now
00:16:22 <Taneb> On account of it is time for bed
00:16:58 <hppavilion[1]> I think it'd have to be a separate command like `?uiet which takes an argument with a special separator, removes the separator (with escaping somehow), passes the new content to ?, then returns its output with the deseparated version replaced with a non-nick-triggering one
00:19:00 <shachaf> `` \? $(rot13 gnaro) | rot13
00:19:01 <hppavilion[1]> So if _ is the separator, [`?uiet Ta_neb] will return "Tanëb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't ..."
00:19:02 <HackEgo> Gnaro vf abg ryyvbgg, ab znggre jubz lbh nfx. Ur nyfb vfa'g n enoov nygubhtu ur unf cergraqrq va gur cnfg. Ur unf ng yrnfg gjb onpxhc xrlobneqf jvgu qbqtl FUVSG XRlf, phor ebbg bs avar traqref, naq nobir nirentr, abg gbb ibyhzvabhf, ohg pnyz rlroebjf. Ur fbzrgvzrf vairagf jvgubhg abgvpvat vg (frr: gnaroiragvbaf).
00:30:24 <HackEgo> [U+0922 DEVANAGARI LETTER DDHA] [U+0925 DEVANAGARI LETTER THA] [U+0917 DEVANAGARI LETTER GA]
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00:46:08 <moonheart08> i am the ugly nesting 3000: world[room.content.exits[Object.keys(room.content.exits)[exitInd]]]
00:46:18 <moonheart08> (actual piece of code from something im writing)
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01:54:57 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 18h 58m 8s ago: I believe pledis is next to be banned, if you check the logs.
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01:59:11 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you match the @messages suffix to the messages that you know you're about to receive because you read the logs anyway?
01:59:47 <shachaf> I didn't realize that until I saw your poem.
01:59:52 <shachaf> Actually I didn't realize it until now.
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02:06:16 <oerjan> there seems to be a hole in the logs, i'm going to assume nothing of interest happened...
02:07:08 <oerjan> it was silent enough it's likely to be true.
02:11:03 <oerjan> (which may or may not be a round timezone these days.
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02:12:21 <oerjan> 03:27:32 --- nick: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz
02:12:39 <oerjan> 05:04:02 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #esoteric
02:13:21 <oerjan> (it also had a very brief break earlier)
02:14:08 <oerjan> the previous message of any interest was your @tell
02:14:24 <oerjan> and the next was \oren\'s TTF talk
02:15:33 <zzo38> How much does the GURPS fourth edition basic set Characters book weigh (in pounds)?
02:15:55 <oerjan> so basically nothing in 10 1/2 hours, so it seems likely tunes missed nothing in its breaks either
02:18:14 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Bowserinator: ...Oh, I thought this was #xkcd xD <-- and somehow, it didn't really look out of place.
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02:30:31 <oerjan> <shachaf> You can factor primes in O(1) time. <-- O(n) hth
02:30:56 <shachaf> is n the number of factors here
02:31:06 <oerjan> the n is conventionally input size in bits or equivalent
02:31:30 <oerjan> so, assuming writing a character of output is O(1)...
02:32:29 <oerjan> (which is true for TMs)
02:33:07 <shachaf> n is obvious the number you're factoring hth
02:33:32 <oerjan> a common misconception.
02:37:22 <dingbat> what is it that you require to be dinged or batted?
02:38:47 <hppavilion[1]> dingbat: ...nothing, I was just noting that I realized I recognize you in nomic from here
02:49:33 * oerjan sees no dingbat in ##nomic
02:50:07 <dingbat> oerjan: a different network :)
03:05:26 <shachaf> oerjan: nomic people tend to be silent hth
03:05:52 <oerjan> yes, but not invisible
03:37:27 <HackEgo> The U are a very mad people.
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04:53:38 <HackEgo> In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.
04:55:48 <zzo38> Do anyone on here know how to figure new modifier values for GURPS?
04:58:48 <alercah> `learn Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
04:58:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'esoterra': Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
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05:35:11 <\oren\> why do movies keep showing the engines on spaceships firing when the ship is going at a constant velocity?!??
05:35:46 <\oren\> spaceships only fire their engines when they CHANGE their velocity!!!!!!!!
05:36:06 <alercah> \oren\: when to movies keep showing spaceships with engines only at the back steering?
05:44:30 <zzo38> GURPS has both kinds
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11:38:22 <HackEgo> caps lock//CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES
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12:10:53 <HackEgo> 105) <oklopol> but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well
12:13:46 <int-e> ... Oh that's what inspired \oren\'s remark about Granny Smith yesterday.
12:16:26 <boily> fungot: fungellot. can you clarify that?
12:16:26 <fungot> boily: i also love the sound of that it's just that i was a pilot when shinra was killed! ulp! what a crew. expert! enlighten us on limit techniques, why don't you think we're welcome here? rude of the ones you were sad.
12:16:45 <boily> fungot: I like the sound of coffee.
12:16:45 <fungot> boily: oh? that's too bad.
12:16:54 <boily> fungot: no, really, it's good coffee.
12:16:54 <fungot> boily: it's not you they're after sephiroth.... i cannot speak. even the rooms of people in midgar. i'm ...really... sorry...
12:17:15 <boily> fungot: I'm not Sephiroth. I'm also not Taneb.
12:17:16 <fungot> boily: uh... tifa... i don't know each other. until one day you'll meet the real world, being done in like that, buy!! we sell! we buy!!
12:17:22 <boily> fungot: neither am I Tifa.
12:17:57 <int-e> fungot seems to be in a dark mood
12:17:57 <fungot> int-e: ye... yes let's... yet let's... yet let's...! is that the way....... that one! this is it?
12:20:33 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
12:20:38 <fungot> boily: it makes perfect sense...
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15:36:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ReThue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50430&oldid=44321 * SuperJedi224 * (-1252) Blanked the page
15:44:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[HBL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50431&oldid=50424 * Moon * (+121) Added categories
16:16:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50432&oldid=44685 * SuperJedi224 * (+2) /* Subtraction */
16:17:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Math++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50433&oldid=50432 * SuperJedi224 * (-27) /* Cube Root */
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17:50:02 <b_jonas> In git, if I want to reset the current branch to a different state and move the working tree and index to there as well, is it true that instead of messing with git reset, I should instead (curbranch=$(git rev-parse --abbrev-ref HEAD); git checkout targetcommit && git checkout -B "$curbranch") because that properly deletes version-controlled files that exist in the current state but not in the new state?
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20:29:45 <\oren\> now there's an element named after tennissee?!
20:31:06 <shachaf> What's wrong with Tennessee?
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20:44:01 <\oren\> shachaf: I prefer then they name elements after people
20:44:12 <shachaf> It's named after Tennessee Williams, obviously.
20:44:51 <shachaf> What do you think of Yttrium, Ytterbium, Terbium, and Erbium?
20:45:09 <shachaf> They're all named after the same Swedish village.
20:45:46 <shachaf> Well, plenty of elements are named after places.
20:46:33 <lambdabot> KOAK 011953Z 30011KT 10SM FEW150 14/05 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP200 T01440050
20:46:46 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
20:46:51 <lambdabot> CYUL 012000Z 23018G25KT 15SM -RA BKN020 OVC030 07/03 A2946 RMK SC6SC2 SLP978 \ ENVA 012020Z 26021KT 9999 FEW012 BKN017 BKN022 02/01 Q1006 TEMPO 1000 SHSN VV005 RMK WIND 670FT 28026KT \ ESSB 012020Z
20:46:51 <lambdabot> 30006KT CAVOK M02/M07 Q0998 R30/19//60 \ KOAK 011953Z 30011KT 10SM FEW150 14/05 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP200 T01440050 \ PAMR 011953Z 05003KT 9SM OVC055 A2925 RMK AO2 SNE45 SLPNO P0000 $
20:47:29 <Phantom_Hoover> i think like a third of elements are named after places
20:47:47 <shachaf> Many places are named after people, though.
20:48:24 <shachaf> Berkeley, CA is named after George Berkeley, for example.
20:48:45 <shachaf> America is named after Amerigo Vespucci.
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20:50:26 * int-e without verbs today, apparently.
20:50:28 <Phantom_Hoover> meanwhile strontian, russia, poland, scandinavia, gaul and india are not named after people
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21:08:32 <lambdabot> APic said 3d 7h 51m 22s ago: Discord is proprietary, centralized, and probably records all Conversations. Also „We also added Virus Scanning, which will automatically scan uploaded executables and
21:08:32 <lambdabot> archives to make sure they're safe.“ So: Everything goes through the Servers and is indexed; so maybe it has a Voicechat You can use without paying Money, but it is absolutely not _free_. You are
21:11:09 <int-e> "you're the product"
21:11:14 * moony wonders if his HBL->Boolfuck translation is accurate
21:13:50 <lambdabot> CYYZ 012100Z 25015KT 15SM OVC025 05/00 A2966 RMK SC8 SLP051
21:15:57 <\oren\> europe is named after a phoenician princess
21:17:21 <\oren\> who was kidnapped by zeus when zeus was in the form of a bull
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21:54:29 <lambdabot> EGLL 012150Z VRB02KT 9999 SCT036 03/02 Q1028
21:59:27 <ais523> @tell Vorpal found while trying to find cfunge's website: https://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/roche/courses/f12si413/project/befunge.php.html (apparently cfunge is genuinely being used in academia as a teaching aid, and the resulting website outranks the cfunge repo in the search I did; I didn't even realise cfunge did Befunge-93, maybe it doesn't)
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22:38:08 <\oren\> U.S. media report multiple shootings by butcher knife in Ohio province, sparking world-wide search for manufacturer of miraculous knife.
22:39:47 <int-e> Hmm, butcher knife armed with deadly AI.
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23:18:30 <zzo38> I found someone used -n and +b and +e channel modes to make it similar to having +n but some clients are exempt.
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01:59:17 <oerjan> smashing people is not cricket tdnh
02:00:07 <oerjan> also you may be confusing crickets with cockroaches.
02:01:32 <oerjan> if you exterminate crickets you have no conscience
02:01:45 * oerjan wonders if anyone gets his puns
02:03:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: smashing people is not cricket [the sport]
02:04:29 <hppavilion[1]> if you exterminate [Jimny- Jiminie- OH FUCK THAT GUY] cricket[] you have no conscience
02:05:05 <oerjan> . o O ( i must be more obscure in the future )
02:31:31 <oerjan> <\oren\> now there's an element named after tennissee?! <-- i'm really wondering what it's going to be called in norwegian. historical custom would suggest "Tenness", but the german and danish wikipedia (which have similar issues) have gone to opposite conclusions of eachother (and i think neither has been approved by any scientists.)
02:31:50 <oerjan> (also Tenness is a horrible word.)
02:31:58 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:32:08 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -tx <<< $'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:32:34 <izalove> it's comparing aaaa with aaaa_bbbb both times
02:32:54 <izalove> but the first time aaaa is sorted before aaaa_bbbb
02:36:25 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort -s <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:36:41 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort -s -tx <<< $'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:37:11 <oerjan> izalove: last resort comparison
02:37:36 <fizzie> I don't see any difference in the outputs.
02:38:12 <izalove> same order as what i got without -s
02:39:10 <oerjan> ``` sort -tZ <<< $'aaaaZbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:40:07 <oerjan> izalove: i think it depends on whether the character is before or after _
02:41:50 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaabbbb'
02:43:03 <oerjan> izalove: it might be a bug that has never been caught because people rarely use characters smaller than tab?
02:43:34 <izalove> i get the same output in toybox/busybox/gnu/sbase/heirloom/plan9
02:43:45 <shachaf> LANG=C sort order is a well-known thing.
02:44:39 <oerjan> izalove: oh wait. you're not actually declaring a field to sort by, so it's sorted by the whole regardless. duh.
02:45:15 <izalove> yes it's sorted by the whole line but why does that matter?
02:45:47 <oerjan> izalove: that means your -tx does not matter at all.
02:45:58 <oerjan> you're just sorting a slightly different file
02:46:25 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:46:32 <oerjan> `` LANG=C sort <<< $'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:47:51 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -tx -k1,1 <<< $'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:47:58 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -k1,1 <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:48:34 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -k1 <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:48:40 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -k1 <<< $'aaaa\tbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:48:48 <izalove> `` LANG=C sort -tx -k1 <<< $'aaaaxbbbb\naaaa_bbbb'
02:50:56 <oerjan> -k1 is equivalent to the whole line
02:51:10 <oerjan> at least in this case.
02:54:00 <HackEgo> 1/1:bct//BCT is short for Bored Cat Transform, an effective compression technique for curtains and sofas. \ d//D is a letter in the alphabet! It's also the name of a programming language. \ password//The password of the month is ⛄ \ til//TIL that TIL means Today I Learned \ oregano//Oregano is the main spice in oreganic cuisine.
02:54:21 <fizzie> `` LANG=C sort -k 2 <<< $'x a\nx\tb'
02:54:36 <HackEgo> 3195:2013-06-20 <guestböt> learn d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d/d nothing \ 3341:2013-07-31 <FreeFul̈l> for x in wisdom/*; do tac "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 5139:2014-11-16 <shachäf> ` rm -r wisdom/d \ 6150:2015-10-26 <gameman̈j> echo "D is a letter in the alphabet! It\'s also the name of a programming
02:54:37 <fizzie> That one's the weird one.
02:55:07 <fizzie> (Without a specified delimiter, the blanks used as a field separator are included in the following field.)
02:56:47 <HackEgo> changeset: 3342:c777e2d91031 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 31 20:46:16 2013 +0000 \ summary: <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done
02:57:09 <HackEgo> changeset: 3343:76820f8a4c50 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 31 20:53:16 2013 +0000 \ summary: <Bike> revert
02:57:25 <HackEgo> changeset: 3344:77ab2dbd6adb \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jul 31 20:54:18 2013 +0000 \ summary: <Bike> echo \'? | rev\' >bin/\xd8\x9f && chmod +x bin/\xd8\x9f
02:57:27 <shachaf> oerjan: it's a new month, is what i was getting at
02:57:53 <HackEgo> revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:58:12 <shachaf> `slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#.$# | 3342 | 3343&#
02:58:16 <HackEgo> ../bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497) | 3342 | 3343' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:58:44 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
02:58:47 <shachaf> `slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 3342 | 3343&#
02:58:51 <HackEgo> ../bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 3342 | 3343)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
02:59:00 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is lutefisk
02:59:05 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is lutefisk
02:59:09 <shachaf> Haven't we had that one before?
02:59:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:59:45 <oerjan> `` howg password | grep -i lut
02:59:53 <HackEgo> <oerjän> learn The password of the month is lutefisk
03:00:08 <shachaf> What was the way to get a history URL?
03:00:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/password
03:00:41 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hwrl: not found
03:01:49 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hwrl//echo 'come on, you can type seven characters'
03:03:09 <oerjan> shachaf: your additions of 3342 and 3343 were redundant hth
03:04:01 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/password
03:04:07 <oerjan> we've had in between changes hth
03:04:12 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
03:04:19 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -p1 -R
03:04:30 <HackEgo> diff -r 479bc0f57a54 -r afd7af1d22f4 wisdom/password \ --- a/wisdom/passwordFri Dec 02 02:58:22 2016 +0000 \ +++ b/wisdom/passwordFri Dec 02 02:58:37 2016 +0000 \ @@ -1,1 +1,1 @@ \ -The password of the month is ⛄ \ +The password of the month is lutefisk
03:04:39 <HackEgo> diff -r e72686e2660c -r 479bc0f57a54 bin/hlnp \ --- a/bin/hlnpFri Dec 02 02:58:16 2016 +0000 \ +++ b/bin/hlnpFri Dec 02 02:58:22 2016 +0000 \ @@ -1,2 +1,2 @@ \ -revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497)'
03:05:18 <HackEgo> <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ <shachäf> revert \ <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#.$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,It,Itb, \ <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//1s.5643.5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497. \ <shachäf> sled bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 5642 | 5643&# \ <shachäf> revert \ <shachäf> sled bin/hlnp//s#..$#
03:05:30 <HackEgo> 9812:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ 9811:2016-12-02 <shachäf> revert \ 9810:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//1s#.$# | 3342 | 3343&# \ 9800:2016-11-29 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,It,Itb, \ 9799:2016-11-29 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//1s.5643.5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497. \ 9690:2016-11-14 <shachäf> sl
03:05:52 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 9800 bin/hlnp >bin/hlnp
03:06:06 <HackEgo> revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:06:11 <shachaf> That seems overly complicated.
03:06:23 <shachaf> At the time that I showed what revision -5 was.
03:06:32 <oerjan> and losing the password?
03:07:14 <shachaf> Anyway, that password is insecure.
03:07:18 <shachaf> According to http://inutile.club/estatis/password-security-checker/
03:07:24 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//s,1497,1497 | 3341,
03:07:28 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 195 | 194 | 3342 | 3343 | 2114 | 2113 | 121 | 122 | 5642 | 5643 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 3341)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:08:18 <shachaf> In fact every password we've had has been insecure!
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03:12:39 <HackEgo> name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
03:12:47 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit
03:17:06 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//1s,9071.*,121 | 122 | 194 | 195 | 196 | 770 | 771 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 2113 | 2114 | 3341 | 3342 | 3343 | 4530 | 4531 | 5642 | 5643 | 5895 | 5897 | 9070 | 9071 | 9074 | 9075)',
03:17:09 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (121 | 122 | 194 | 195 | 196 | 770 | 771 | 1000 | 1001 | 1493 | 1497 | 2113 | 2114 | 3341 | 3342 | 3343 | 4530 | 4531 | 5642 | 5643 | 5895 | 5897 | 9070 | 9071 | 9074 | 9075)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:17:55 <shachaf> now i'm going to have to keep it sorted #scow
03:18:01 -!- aleph- has joined.
03:18:18 <aleph-> Why am I just now learning of this chan? :D
03:19:08 <shachaf> oerjan: I told you this should have been in a separate file.
03:19:11 <HackEgo> aleph-: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:19:23 <shachaf> But then I was trying to make you write it, which is futile.
03:19:58 <shachaf> `` for r in 121 122 194 195 196 770 771 1000 1001 1493 1497 2113 2114 3341 3342 3343 4530 4531 5642 5643 5895 5897 9070 9071 9074 9075; do echo $r; done | sort > share/badrevs
03:20:15 <oerjan> i was going to call it scowrevs hth
03:20:27 <shachaf> `` mv share/{bad,scow}revs
03:22:12 <shachaf> If I left it like this, you would fix it, though.
03:22:24 <shachaf> Since your weakness is an inconsistent state.
03:22:26 <HackEgo> cat: share/badrevs: No such file or directory
03:22:33 <HackEgo> 1000 \ 1001 \ 121 \ 122 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 770 \ 771 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:23:47 <oerjan> `` sort -n share/scowrevs > share/sc; mv share/sc{,owrevs}
03:23:56 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: type: sponge: not found
03:23:57 <HackEgo> 121 \ 122 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 770 \ 771 \ 1000 \ 1001 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:24:15 <shachaf> oerjan: oh man, that wasn't even what i was talking about
03:24:52 <aleph-> So esolangs huh... very on topic. :P
03:25:42 <shachaf> `mkx bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd'|')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:26:15 <HackEgo> hg: parse error at 16: syntax error
03:26:51 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//s,[(][$],$(,
03:26:53 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd'|')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! $(scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:27:16 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
03:27:20 <oerjan> i'm probably zonked too
03:27:26 <shachaf> `` echo "$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd '|')"
03:27:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/-sd
03:27:46 <shachaf> `` echo "$(cat share/scowrevs | /bin/paste -sd '|')"
03:27:48 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /bin/paste: No such file or directory
03:27:55 <HackEgo> paste is /hackenv/bin/paste \ paste is /usr/bin/paste
03:28:00 <shachaf> `` echo "$(cat share/scowrevs | /usr/bin/paste -sd '|')"
03:28:02 <HackEgo> 121|122|194|195|196|770|771|1000|1001|1493|1497|2113|2114|3341|3342|3343|4530|4531|5642|5643|5895|5897|9070|9071|9074|9075
03:28:20 <shachaf> `slwd ../bin/hlnp//s#p#/usr/bin/p#
03:28:22 <HackEgo> ../bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(cat share/scowrevs | /usr/bin/paste -sd'|')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:28:49 <HackEgo> 2487:2013-03-23 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/$/ And a lystrosaur./\' wisdom/elliott \ 1855:2013-01-26 <oerjän> sed -i -e 1N -e \'s/\\n//\' wisdom/elliott \ 1854:2013-01-26 <oerjän> echo " He is also tire." >>wisdom/elliott \ 1853:2013-01-26 <oerjän> revert \ 1852:2013-01-26 <ellioẗt> learn elliott is tire \ 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:
03:29:01 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:29:38 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:29:45 <HackEgo> cat: share/scowrevs: No such file or directory \ hg: parse error: missing argument
03:30:12 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; touch share/scowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:30:17 <HackEgo> hg: parse error: missing argument
03:30:51 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; echo 1000000 > share/scowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:30:56 <HackEgo> abort: unknown revision '1000000'!
03:31:17 <shachaf> `` mv share/{s,}cowrevs; echo 2 > share/scowrevs; dowg zzo38; mv share/{,s}cowrevs
03:31:24 <HackEgo> 9071:2016-09-25 <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 9070:2016-09-25 <evilips̈e> ` chmod 777 / -R \ 771:2012-10-06 <oerjän> revert \ 770:2012-10-06 <FreeFul̈l> run rm -rf wisdom \ 196:2012-04-08 <shachäf> revert 0 \ 194:2012-04-08 <shachäf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:31:35 <HackEgo> 9826:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//s#p#/usr/bin/p# \ 9825:2016-12-02 <oerjän> revert \ 9824:2016-12-02 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,[(][$],$(, \ 9823:2016-12-02 <shachäf> mkx bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd\'|\')"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed \'s/\\(\\(^\\| \\)[<Itb][^ ]*\\)\\([^ ][^ ]\\)/\\1\xcc\
03:31:39 <aleph-> Man, I haven't played with one of these in years.
03:35:08 <oerjan> `sled bin/hlnp//1s,cat[^"]*,/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs),
03:35:11 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:35:34 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:35:47 <aleph-> oerjan: The hell are you attempting to do?
03:36:46 <oerjan> aleph-: we're just improving HackEgo's change history lookup feature
03:37:12 <aleph-> Without leaving the irc window?
03:37:15 <oerjan> it has a list of vandalism entries that it censors to reduce noise
03:37:41 <shachaf> `` paste -sd '|' share/scowrevs
03:37:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/-sd
03:37:53 <shachaf> `` /usr/bin/paste -sd '|' share/scowrevs
03:37:54 <HackEgo> 121|122|194|195|196|770|771|1000|1001|1493|1497|2113|2114|3341|3342|3343|4530|4531|5642|5643|5895|5897|9070|9071|9074|9075
03:38:12 <HackEgo> changeset: 121:8a04b0258775 \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Mar 22 19:17:38 2012 +0000 \ summary: <elliott> run mv bin test; touch bin
03:38:24 <HackEgo> changeset: 194:b354fd7abfc7 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Apr 08 00:19:32 2012 +0000 \ summary: <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/*
03:39:05 <oerjan> aleph-: mass deletions like that. easily reverted but leaves noise in the hg repository.
03:42:17 <HackEgo> 9827:2016-12-02 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//1s,cat[^"]*,/usr/bin/paste -sd\'|\' share/scowrevs), \ 9826:2016-12-02 <shachäf> slwd ../bin/hlnp//s#p#/usr/bin/p# \ 9825:2016-12-02 <oerjän> revert \ 9824:2016-12-02 <oerjän> sled bin/hlnp//s,[(][$],$(, \ 9823:2016-12-02 <shachäf> mkx bin/hlnp//scowrevs="$(cat share/scowrevs | paste -sd\'|\')"; hg
03:49:21 <oerjan> fungot: say hello to aleph-
03:49:21 <fungot> oerjan: i've been messing around with longjmp that anmaster's asking all sorts of things. --atterbury... new fnord?
03:50:17 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
04:05:16 <zzo38> Unicode is at least 101% stupid
04:06:15 <izalove> can you add it as a non standard character?
04:12:31 <zzo38> Please tell me if this explanation of UHS file format is good enough http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/freeuhs.ui/wiki?name=UHS+File+Format
04:14:24 <\oren\> ok, I have no idea why this isn't displaying
04:16:19 <\oren\> it shows up fine on the web
04:16:23 <shachaf> zzo38: How can it be more than 100%?
04:17:41 <zzo38> Unfortunately it can be.
04:19:15 <\oren\> the fixed öẅë shows up but not the Kannada characters?S?S?S
04:21:34 <\oren\> maybe it is doing something based on the language support....
04:22:09 <\oren\> so I have to add the rest of the Kannada letters if I want this to work
04:23:19 <\oren\> aint nobody got time fo dat
04:23:37 <\oren\> t least not until I finish with Japanese
04:35:14 -!- trn has joined.
04:36:10 <HackEgo> trn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
05:11:10 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I fixed the problem with öẅë by the way
05:12:06 <\oren\> now the diarheses line up
05:22:20 <\oren\> wow, the old german handwriting is even more illegible than Fraktur
05:22:34 <\oren\> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCtterlinschrift#/media/File:S%C3%BCtterlin-Ausgangsschrift.jpg
05:41:36 <zzo38> How to change the default filename when saving a document in Firefox to the filename in the URL rather than the title of the document?
05:41:53 <zzo38> (The title of the document is never what I want to call the saved file.)
06:33:29 <myname> c and e confuse me a lot on that picture
06:33:38 <myname> the rest kinda makes sense
06:34:01 <myname> like how g is just a extended downwards and a is just o with an attached line
06:45:22 <zzo38> If the pokemon game is easy then use these rules: http://s7.zetaboards.com/Nuzlocke_Forum/topic/9278478/1/
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06:52:19 <myname> one of the extra credit guys use nuzlocke rules
06:57:23 <myname> okay, he only uses the first 3 though
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07:40:04 <myname> if i order apples on a scale from sweet to sour and i like it somewhere in the middle, can i consider the spot i like a "sweet spot" even if it is excplicitly not on the sweet only spot?
08:10:35 <Jafet> I think you can only order apples in boxes, not on scales
08:12:06 <Jafet> also, there are sweet sops and sour sops, but none in between
09:32:05 <b_jonas> "wow, the old german handwriting is even more illegible than Fraktur" => duh. handwriting is always less readable than printed, otherwise they'd change the printed types to resemble the handwriting more, to make it more readable
09:32:25 <b_jonas> typesetters do awfully crazy hard work stuff if it comes to making the output look better
09:56:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * L3viathan * New user account
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10:28:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50434&oldid=50382 * L3viathan * (+242)
10:28:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50435 * L3viathan * (+4144) Created page with "'''OIL''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User:L3viathan|L3viathan]] that stands for '''O'''verly '''I'''ntrospective '''L'''anguage. It is turing-machine-li..."
10:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50436&oldid=50435 * L3viathan * (+55) /* Official implementation */
10:30:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50437&oldid=50416 * L3viathan * (+10) /* O */
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11:43:23 <HackEgo> treaty//The Treaty on `lists treats how to `list our treats.
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12:01:10 <boily> fungot: all in all each man in all men all men in each man.
12:01:11 <fungot> boily: those can be dropped if you know which binding to use more energy than we do, it's definitely a beta tester)). an object structure, as far as the method is very easily expressed recursively :)
12:08:33 <HackEgo> 1223) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now.
12:14:32 <boily> b_jellonas. does it snow on Christmas in your corner of the World?
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12:20:40 <b_jonas> if you want guaranteed snow at a predetermined date, you go skiing in the alps, not just stay here and hope for favorable weather
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12:51:40 <HackEgo> Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves.
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15:28:39 <pledis> https://streamable.com/5egh
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16:38:32 <HackEgo> 1036) <Bike> I'm glad I quit programming to take up listening to numbers stations
16:38:38 <HackEgo> 493) <Phantom_Hoover> I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed.
16:38:42 <HackEgo> 78) <ais523> theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along
16:38:47 <HackEgo> 197) <nddrylliog> are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? <oklofok> nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full
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17:51:24 <HackEgo> 1159) <fungot> kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around
17:51:33 <HackEgo> 194) <oklopol> oerjan: also actually A(4, 4) is larger than any other integer, i learned this the other day when i was reading about this algo, it had complexity O(n a^-1(n)) = O(n a^-1(4))
17:52:53 <HackEgo> 658) <zzo38> When you die in Canada, you die in real life.
17:52:59 <HackEgo> 1197) <fizzie> I am in room number 404. <fizzie> I keep not finding it and walking past the door.
17:53:08 <HackEgo> 765) <mroman> You can't quote me.
17:53:14 <HackEgo> 1034) <oerjan> this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam.
17:53:31 <HackEgo> 488) <Phantom_Hoover> FFS, building a perpetual motion machine should not be this hard.
17:53:38 <HackEgo> 918) <augur> DIE <augur> oh hey elliott
17:53:44 <HackEgo> 565) <Patashu> that's trippy. how does such a thing evolve? what biological niche is it filling? we need to film a mockumentary on this
17:53:51 <HackEgo> 458) <elliott> I MIGHT BECOME GHOST
17:53:55 <HackEgo> 802) <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX
17:54:01 <HackEgo> 221) <ais523> OK, I give up, logging into Wikia is harder than writing a Firefox extension
17:54:08 <int-e> Zarutian: you *do* know that HackEgo replies to PRIVMSG, don't you?
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17:54:58 <augur> whats new in the esolang world
18:04:25 <Zarutian> int-e: yes, it was too silent here.
18:08:24 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qote: not found
18:08:26 <HackEgo> 890) <Bike> Usually I'd use Rankine, but the fucking weather doesn't support it.
18:08:34 <HackEgo> 1057) <kmc> Bike: so I'm home now <kmc> i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other
18:08:44 <HackEgo> 1048) <kmc> 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? <elliott> kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple <elliott> one more element
18:09:21 <shachaf> 5 quotes at a time is permitted (though you can get them more compactly with `5)
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19:01:43 <\oren\> Trivia! Armin Van Buuren was the first president of the USA to be born in the USA
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19:15:54 <augur> speaking of esoteric computing, i'm building a rod logic computer :)
19:16:15 <int-e> I hope hue's been `relcomed
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19:19:01 <augur> izalove: only of some simple prototypes
19:19:13 <augur> soon i'll be back in SF and I can actually start laser cutting things
19:19:24 <augur> also, importantly, i have money now to spend on personal projects. lol
19:20:14 <int-e> `rainbow can you name the hues of the rainbow?
19:20:14 <HackEgo> can you name the hues of the rainbow?
19:21:50 <izalove> augur: i'd be interested in the simple prototypes as well
19:33:47 <augur> izalove: ok let me dig up my vids :)
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19:34:45 <augur> izalove: here's some pics of the full added i built https://twitter.com/psygnisfive/status/754186779813478400
19:35:45 <augur> izalove: here's the video of the AND gate I built, w/ explanation, and in the replies to that you can find a video of the adder https://twitter.com/psygnisfive/status/754509236340527104
19:37:56 <augur> i wrote a little JS program that will automatically design these gates, too :)
19:38:04 <augur> i need to clean up the code, tho
19:38:19 <augur> and add some better UI stuff, and extend it to do gate stacking
19:39:42 <augur> given a truth table, it'll spit out a monogate design for it in SVG format so you can throw it into a laser cutter and cut it out
19:40:00 <augur> nice streamlined process for manufacturing rod logic computers. lmfao
19:41:08 <augur> I also want to try to build these in silicon. a bunch of people are noisebridge are going to the stanford nanofab facility today as a result of my pestering about chip fab processes :)
19:41:23 <augur> we're going to set up a little fab in noisebridge. not very clean, but still existant!
19:41:36 <augur> DIY semiconductors and MEMS! \o/
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21:05:05 <moony> someone made a zip file quine in 2010: http://swtch.com/r.zip
21:07:36 <moony> its really somewhat suprising it works, isnt it?
21:07:42 <moony> at least, it is until its explained
21:08:22 <zzo38> Knowing something about DEFLATE, it doesn't seems too surprising
21:09:43 <HackEgo> 5293:2015-03-30 <FireFl̈y> ` ln -s canary wisdom/canary; ls -l wisdom/canary \ 5294:2015-03-30 <FireFl̈y> ` rm wisdom/canary; ln -s ../canary wisdom/canary; ls -l wisdom/canary \ 9435:2016-10-26 <oerjän> rm wisdom/canary
21:09:50 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 111:2012-03-19 <ais52̈3> run echo now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely >> canary \ 112:2012-03-19 <ellioẗt> run echo chirp >canary \ 113:2012-03-19 <ais52̈3> run rm canary && mkdir canary \ 114:2012-03-19 <ellioẗt> run echo chirp >canary \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 199:2012-04-
21:10:34 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
21:11:00 <shachaf> that is whoafully out of date
21:11:40 <olsner> huh, does shachaf have inventions?
21:12:12 <olsner> I know I haven't invented shit
21:12:28 <shachaf> Maybe I'm confusing you with oklopol.
21:13:52 <shachaf> olsner: But I thought you invented alphanumeric poetry?
21:13:53 <olsner> speaking of which, how long since oklo* actually went here?
21:14:08 <moony> out of curiousity...
21:14:11 <olsner> shachaf: I think someone else invented that I invented that
21:14:15 <moony> `fetch http://www.unforgettable.dk/42.zip
21:14:18 <HackEgo> 2016-12-02 21:13:48 URL:http://www.unforgettable.dk/42.zip [42838/42838] -> "42.zip" [1]
21:14:58 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
21:19:48 <shachaf> It's years later and I'm still pleased with that limerick.
21:20:06 <olsner> you should be, that is brilliant work
21:22:36 <shachaf> 09:20:03: <olsner> how do people just pop out limericks like that? I seem to be lacking that skill
21:23:02 <olsner> still am, seeming to, lacking, it
21:25:00 <olsner> ais523: oerjan told me to ask you something about intercal btw
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21:26:42 <shachaf> why is whitespace afraid of intercal?
21:28:28 <olsner> oh, whitespace was afraid of intercal, somehow managed to read that backwards
21:29:43 <zzo38> {1} Artifact - Fortification ;; Fortified land is a 1/2 artifact creature. ;; Fortify {1}
21:39:34 <ais523> actually yes, it fixes the main problem with fortifications
21:39:42 <ais523> however I suspect the creature needs better stats
21:39:47 <ais523> I'd me more inclined towards 2/2
21:40:06 <ais523> even then, Wizards wouldn't like something that's cheap and makes lands easily destroyable, but I disagree with them on this
21:47:18 <shachaf> ais523: Remind me whether there's a double dactyl written with your name yet?
21:47:43 <ais523> shachaf: I'm not aware of one
21:47:54 <shachaf> I mean IRC nick of course.
21:48:09 <shachaf> Maybe the emphasis is wrong.
21:48:32 <shachaf> Why do you disagree with WotC on this?
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21:59:43 <HackEgo> 1046) <Bike> i can say "no, i mean the WEIRD porn" in over six japonic languages
22:01:43 <olsner> hmm, the trick is that what you're looking for isn't even considered weird in any of them
22:05:49 <HackEgo> 1196) <MDude> It seems there aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems.
22:05:59 <HackEgo> 1255) <mroman> I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell . <Taneb> mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell? <Taneb> Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
22:07:45 <\oren\> by the way, I have found that TTF doesn't allow infinite lookahead for ligatures
22:08:30 <olsner> good, would be funfortunate to find a turing complete string rewriting system in TTF
22:09:27 <\oren\> olsner: that's what I was trying to do
22:09:58 <\oren\> ttf requires you to give a number as the maximum lookahead
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22:10:19 <\oren\> ... although, I wonder if ttf actually holds you to it
22:10:29 <Zarutian> I am sorry, what is a ligature? some sort of loop or knot?
22:10:47 <pikhq> \oren\: What about OTF? ;)
22:10:54 <\oren\> Zarutian: when two characters get combined
22:11:20 <olsner> lookahead is probably not the most interesting limitation though, I think post systems and such can be very small
22:11:51 <pikhq> Yes, though æ is generally considered a distinct grapheme in languages that use it.
22:11:58 <pikhq> (even though it began life as a ligature)
22:12:36 <\oren\> No like some fonts will automatically diplay the string fi as fi
22:12:45 <olsner> in ttf/otf terms, it would be a ligature if you have a font that merges "a e" into æ
22:13:16 <pikhq> Which would be most appropriate for a font used for Latin.
22:13:30 <pikhq> Particularly medieval Latin.
22:13:59 <Zarutian> pikhq: it latin orthography began as a ligature though it is exists before that as a rune
22:14:49 <pikhq> Its use in transcribing runic languages and in writing Latin are somewhat unconnected, though.
22:15:44 <pikhq> In runic transcription it was transcribing a single glyph, "ᚨ" (æsc)
22:15:55 <\oren\> no idea what language those are from
22:16:43 <\oren\> I think Ꜩꜩ is for german
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22:19:50 <pikhq> Huh, while Cirth hasn't been encoded in Unicode, Tolkien's unique runes for transcribing Modern English were.
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22:59:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Golfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50438&oldid=44755 * Sp3000 * (-507)
23:00:43 <Zarutian> say, can anyone here be so kind to explain for me the english word 'reasonable'? It is clearly an adjective of some kind but what is its meaning precisely?
23:01:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Golfish]]": author request: "Edit (Dec 2016): Writing a 2D semi-golfing language didn't turn out very nice since it gradually devolved into predominantly one line programs. I'd still like to see an extension of ><> one day" ... "but this is not it."
23:02:16 <ais523> Zarutian: it means, approximately, "without unlikely/unplausible situations occuring", the meaning sort-of shifts on context
23:02:31 <ais523> "it is reasonable to think that…" means "it would not be stupid/ridiculous to think that…"
23:03:05 <ais523> "be reasonable" means something like "stop having silly ideas, and focus on something more practical"
23:03:14 <Zarutian> I have SEEN and BEEN in unlikely and unplausible situations!
23:03:32 <ais523> Zarutian: yes, it's still not reasonable to allow for them though
23:03:45 <Zarutian> what is unlikely or unplausible is too damn fucking subjective
23:03:52 <int-e> Zarutian: so have I! we have so much in common!!!1
23:04:10 <ais523> "reasonable precautions" are precautions that will deal with any likely situation, but might potentially be defeated by unlikely situations
23:05:25 <fizzie> Reasonable prices are what you put on an ad when the actual price would scare away buyers.
23:05:59 <Zarutian> well, somebody told me that 'reasonable' is a good indicator someone who uttered it is trying to evade themselfs out of some situation where they need to give clear and precise definitions for the terms they are using because those aforesaid terms are not common vernicular nor easily derived logically or analytically
23:06:36 <shachaf> Do you think putting all a company's code in one repository is a good idea?
23:06:49 <Zarutian> ais523: yeah, "reasonable precautions" get your license to practice permanently suspended in my field of practice
23:07:02 <fizzie> shachaf: I can't answer unless I can think of an answering porthello, sorry.
23:07:27 <ais523> Zarutian: "reasonable" is often not a high enough standard for this reason, in safety-critical fields you sometimes need to take unreasonable precautions too :-)
23:07:30 <shachaf> Do you think doing that, and also not having library versioning etc., just doing everything from master/etc., is viable if you don't have good tests?
23:08:07 <fizzie> shachaf: Reasonably viable.
23:08:13 <ais523> the adverb "reasonably" often carries the connotation of "not to an extreme extent"; if a builder said that they'd designed my house to be reasonably stable, I'd be concerned
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23:08:36 <Zarutian> ais523: hence my mounting suspiction that it is basically a weasle word for someone to evade with
23:08:54 <ais523> it's more of a weasel word with a fairly specific meaning, but that meaning is inherently weaselly
23:09:49 <fizzie> shachaf: Anyway, just, you know, have a rollback binary, that sort of thing.
23:10:06 <Zarutian> even if it has specific meaning it is still imprecise and most probably inaccurate
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23:10:50 <Zarutian> like "Take the thingy and apply that other thingy to it before bolting it to the other thing"
23:11:27 <fizzie> I was in Paris for Wednesday, and on Thursday woke up having pretty much entirely lost my voice (now it's back); wonder if that's connected somehow.
23:15:49 <shachaf> fizzie: I'm trying to argue for using that sort of system, and people say it won't work because they don't have tests.
23:16:36 <shachaf> And also they don't want to bother keeping things up to date.
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23:20:15 <fizzie> Just appeal to authority.
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23:21:20 <shachaf> supreme pooch of the united states?
23:21:53 <fizzie> What I do is in this sort of arguments (well, usually it's my wife claiming some word I'm using is not a "proper word"), I write a convincing-looking web page and open it as file:/// in my browser.
23:21:59 <fizzie> Admittedly it doesn't usually help much.
23:22:02 <\oren\> recently the local mcdonalds installed large self service touchscreens and reduced the number of registers
23:22:41 <fizzie> I've always found the "POTUS" term somehow ridiculous. Probably because "pottu" is a colloquial Finnish term for a potato.
23:22:45 <\oren\> the minimum wage jobs are being replaced with soulles androids
23:22:52 <Zarutian> \oren\: do those touchscreen have sanitary wipes to use on it before one touches it?
23:23:14 <Zarutian> \oren\: "Soulless androids in soulless jobs!"
23:24:00 <shachaf> fizzie: have you considered using data:text/html, hth
23:24:02 <fizzie> I'll have you know there's a little bit of soul in every Android installation. (That's probably not true.)
23:24:10 <izalove> in 10 years all jobs will be replaced by androids
23:24:25 <shachaf> fizzie: Is it the bit that you sold when you got your job?
23:24:44 <Zarutian> izalove: and who is going to buy the services provided by said androids?
23:25:04 <Zarutian> fizzie: you mean the soul.so file?
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23:25:32 <fizzie> shachaf: That would make sense. What else would they do with it?
23:25:57 <\oren\> devour it! #spiritcooking
23:26:13 <izalove> Zarutian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
23:26:47 <shachaf> fizzie: I imagine Calico could put it to good use.
23:27:41 <Zarutian> regarding 'minimum wage', 'living wage' and such. Why do proponents of those often oppose 'citizen salary' (which is basically covers only bear minimum subsitance)
23:28:09 <Zarutian> izalove: not intrested in video, didnt watch. What does it depict?
23:29:12 <fizzie> shachaf: I guess. Probably Deepmind as well.
23:29:25 <fizzie> They're the sort of people I can imagine dabbling in souls.
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23:33:00 <shachaf> Have you moved into your new office yet?
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23:34:41 <fizzie> Depends on the definition of "new office". I mean, I moved to one months ago already, some time in the summer or so.
23:35:12 <fizzie> The proper "new office" that Sundar announced the other week he was in London, that we still haven't even started building.
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23:38:08 <fizzie> (Allegedly it's going to be real nice, though.)
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00:14:02 <boily> fungot: do you ever send massages?
00:14:02 <fungot> boily: damn you structural ambiguity!", i think
00:14:11 <boily> fungot: no, a massage is structurally sound hth
00:14:11 <fungot> boily: you're just a zealot incapable of having an in-numbers? ( lambda ( x)
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00:14:30 <boily> fungot: By His Noodly Appendage, I ain't no zealot, you heretic!
00:14:30 <fungot> boily: and there's no automatic fnord, i was gonna submit a srfi too, but it's
00:15:06 <boily> fungot: srfi: Subversive Radiophonic Fnord Integration?
00:20:23 <zzo38> There might be use for some unofficial node types in FreeUHS, with names having "x-" at front. One thing I thought is a thing similar to the "incentive" type but dynamic; which nodes are hidden/locked can be controlled by the game.
00:21:34 <zzo38> Does it make any sense to you? Do you have other idea?
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00:38:31 * Zarutian is reading https://theintercept.com/2016/12/01/expanded-federal-hacking-authority-goes-into-effect-despite-last-minute-efforts-in-senate/
00:40:34 <zzo38> This would require the hint system to be linked with the game though. Another way for a hint system which is not linked with the game can be for the game to provide a "hint reference code", which is entered into the hint viewer in order to access a hidden hint menu. Hint reference codes can be provided even if there is no UHS file for this game; the UHS can be provided later, and these hint reference codes can possibly even be used with stuff that
00:41:50 <Zarutian> hmm... anyone up for co authoring an Binding International Arbitration Contract Notice, telling both the USA FBI and USA DOJ that any 'equipment interference' or access gained by means not authorized by the sending party to sending party's equipment, accounts or such is equivlent to them accepting the IAC.
00:42:21 <zzo38> I do not live in United States and have no authority to do such a thing
00:42:42 <Zarutian> zzo38: I said co authoring not issuing
00:43:05 <zzo38> O, OK. Even then, I do not know how.
00:43:46 <Zarutian> basically constructing an EULA-esque mousetrap for them.
00:44:55 <zzo38> OK, do that if you know how, but I don't know how.
00:46:34 <oerjan> that reminds me of https://xkcd.com/538/. as in, it's about as naive as the first panel.
00:47:14 <oerjan> except trying to hack law instead, which probably works even worse.
00:49:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50439&oldid=50340 * 0x0dea * (+1785) Added Whitespace interpreter in LOLCODE
00:49:45 <Zarutian> oerjan: so you are suggesting at the end of it, it should state: This IACN is as legal as your so called 'Rule 41'.
00:50:21 <oerjan> Zarutian: i was assuming you were suggesting this with some kind of illusion that would in any sense "work".
00:50:25 <Ox0dea> oerjan: Sorry for only just getting around to that.
00:51:07 <oerjan> Ox0dea: no problem, i was going to do that refactoring eventually anyway.
00:51:18 <Zarutian> oerjan: it """works""" in the same sense that EULAs """work"""
00:51:44 <boily> there's a rule 41?
00:53:10 <oerjan> `learn Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this.
00:53:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'nuff': Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this.
00:54:02 <Zarutian> oerjan: or should I rather send them an warning that any such malware they produce will be analysed and any CoC servers it contacts DDOSed of the net? (Like it is done with CoC of botnets in places where the 'authorities' are too corrupt to care)
00:54:46 <boily> . o O ( snuff is to nuff what scow is to cow... )
00:55:27 <oerjan> Zarutian: i'm just saying there is no point in posing like this.
00:56:00 <Zarutian> oerjan: just go straight to the malware analysis and DDOSing then?
00:56:06 <oerjan> Fairy snuff would indeed be pretty scow.
00:57:00 <oerjan> Zarutian: i think that's still posing when the target is a powerful government. except more likely to be harmful to yourself.
00:58:20 <zzo38> Write such note anonymously and sent to newspaper to publish.
00:59:52 <Zarutian> oerjan: the 'agents' arent 'powerful government'. Their actions are their own. And actions do have consequences for whoever performs them.
01:00:54 <boily> how many weeks since the last oots?
01:00:57 <Zarutian> oerjan: one of which is rescindment of credibility of their signitures.
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01:40:59 <ais523> esoserious problem I'm having: is the bookworm character used by INTERCAL best represented in Unicode as ∀ (for all) or Ɐ (which actually is an upside-down A, as opposed to merely looking like one)?
01:41:47 <oerjan> what does it mean again
01:42:17 <oerjan> i take it it's V overstriked with -
01:42:59 <boily> his523. I believe forall is better.
01:44:43 <ais523> I didn't realise there were two identical-looking (in all the fonts I've seen them in) bookworms in Unicode until I tried to shapecatcher it
01:45:38 <boily> oerjan: that's not a XOR, that's a wormbook hth.
01:46:37 <oerjan> i suppose it's not too good that the worm is missing
01:46:46 <oerjan> (missing the book, that is)
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02:02:51 <oerjan> ais523: did you see my O(log n) improvements. admittedly they're probably still not very optimal for constant factors...
02:03:45 <ais523> oerjan: I'm missing context, so I'm guessing no
02:03:54 <oerjan> on the Incident talk page
02:04:26 <ais523> I'm glad it's possible though
02:05:33 <oerjan> it seemed the easiest way to keep it 01 based
02:05:56 <oerjan> although it's easy enough to adapt to other bases, as mentioned later
02:06:11 <ais523> also, that filler is amazing
02:06:33 <oerjan> i simplified it a bit later by using overlap rejection
02:08:42 <ais523> I don't think the problem of "good Incident filler" will be fixed until we find filler that doesn't need to embed the tokens themselves though
02:08:55 <ais523> and that has a reasonable length
02:09:19 <ais523> my simulated annealing filler program can normally fill length-2 tokens using just three filler characters distinct from those in the tokens, within a minute or so of runtime
02:10:30 <ais523> I assume that using length-3 tokens would make filling harder, and possibly require a larger alphabet of filler characters
02:10:44 <ais523> and when your tokens get long enough, perhaps the filler needs to be multiple characters too
02:15:23 <oerjan> hm maybe you can see this as a graph problem, with an edge from each token to the other tokens that may follow it
02:15:51 <oerjan> three except for the one that's last in the program
02:16:46 <ais523> right, you only have to consider the tokens pairwise because if a combination of three tokens were relevant, you'd definitely have an overlap somewhere
02:20:30 <oerjan> the delimiters neighboring a token should be unique for each occurrence, that takes care of all strings containing a whole token
02:20:48 <oerjan> *for each occurrence of that token
02:22:19 <oerjan> you could perhaps use nine delimiters to simply encode the occurrence numbers of their neighbors.
02:23:14 <oerjan> (now i'm assuming we're using a reasonably large character set)
02:23:57 <oerjan> but then there still remains preventing repetition of substrings not containing a whole token
02:26:22 <oerjan> ...that may not be the easiest thing to solve.
02:30:53 <ais523> right, the most common accidental tokens (I call these "incidents" in the docs, just because I can) involve a delimeter plus half a token
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A698 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DOUBLE O [Ꚙ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O [ꚙ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A69A CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER CROSSED O [Ꚛ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A69B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER CROSSED O [ꚛ]
02:37:11 <shachaf> new cyrillic O letters in unicode hth
02:37:33 <oerjan> but no DOUBLE-CROSSED? scow.
02:42:02 <HackEgo> 8ballreplies \ airports.dat \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ candide \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ headers \ headers.gch \ hello \ lua \ maimer \ maimery \ maze \ mtg \ nothp \ recipe \ scapegoats \ scowrevs \ sedtest \ UnicodeData.txt \ units.dat \ usercm
02:42:17 <shachaf> `fetch ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt
02:42:22 <HackEgo> 2016-12-03 02:41:51 URL: ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt [1686443] -> "UnicodeData.txt" [1]
02:42:29 <shachaf> `mv UnicodeData.txt share/
02:42:30 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `UnicodeData.txt share/' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
02:42:39 <shachaf> `` mv UnicodeData.txt share/
02:44:27 <HackEgo> U+033F COMBINING DOUBLE OVERLINE \ UTF-8: cc bf UTF-16BE: 033f Decimal: ̿ \ ̿ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \ U+1AB8 COMBINING DOUBLE OPEN MARK BELOW \ UTF-8: e1 aa b8 UTF-16BE: 1ab8 Decimal: ᪸ \ ᪸ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \
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02:44:55 <oerjan> `unicode LETTER DOUBLE O
02:44:57 <HackEgo> U+A698 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DOUBLE O \ UTF-8: ea 9a 98 UTF-16BE: a698 Decimal: Ꚙ \ Ꚙ (ꚙ) \ Lowercase: U+A699 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O \ UTF-8: ea 9a 99 UTF-16BE: a699 Decimal: ꚙ \ ꚙ (Ꚙ) \ Uppercase: U+A698 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \
02:45:55 <shachaf> Oh, you were searching for something that wasn't even in there.
02:50:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TOMB CHICKEN).
02:51:18 <oerjan> boily's quit messages are becoming more grave
03:13:12 <HackEgo> hppavilion1:higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed \ Binary file reflection matches
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03:15:17 <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:15:45 <ais523> well, I imagine it helped someone :-D
03:19:16 <shachaf> someone in the past, perhaps
03:20:13 <shachaf> If Lobachevsky's name fit the pattern, it would go well with "Minskily Pinskily"
03:20:23 <HackEgo> 9699:2016-11-16 <ais52̈3> addquote <shachaf> ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it\'s for when people think they\'re being funny, rather than when other people think they\'re funny. \ 9643:2016-11-07 <oerjän> addquote <hppavilion[1]> I\'m waiting for the sequels to Gravity to come out: Electromagnetism and t
03:20:44 <shachaf> `addquote <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:20:47 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:21:07 <oerjan> is that the wrong word?
03:23:18 <shachaf> Maybe it's Nynorsk English and not American English.
03:24:10 <oerjan> ...i guess i should have used hail.
03:25:16 <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:25:18 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
03:25:26 <ais523> hailing is better I think
03:25:29 <shachaf> good thing you said it at the last moment there
03:25:37 <shachaf> otherwise i'd've been misquoting you
03:25:48 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a time travel quote
03:25:57 <ais523> oerjan retroactively unmisquoted himself
03:26:00 <shachaf> i,i temporarily misquoting
03:26:35 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:26:59 <shachaf> Hmm, how about adding a command on the third-to-last line?
03:27:39 <ais523> the slashes work as commas
03:27:42 <shachaf> This reminds me of a double dactyl.
03:27:47 <ais523> newline is a punctuation mark on IRC, after all
03:28:46 <shachaf> Higgledy-piggledy / Emily Dickinson / Liked to use dashes / Instead of full stops. // Nowadays, faced with such / Idiosyncracy / Critics and editors / Send for the cops.
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03:45:45 <oerjan> i had commas initially, that was one of the things i was checking the hppavilion one for
03:46:23 <oerjan> it was the period. oh wait.
03:46:30 <shachaf> were you going by my example?
03:46:49 * oerjan sdrawkcab gnihtyreve seod
03:47:27 <shachaf> That one wasn't even a good one.
03:47:32 <shachaf> I've written good ones in here before, I think.
03:47:36 <shachaf> Or maybe it was another channel.
03:49:16 <oerjan> shachaf: i was only checking it for formatting hth
03:49:32 <shachaf> and even that didn't work out hth
03:49:53 <shachaf> and i should stop being scow about it
03:51:38 <shachaf> Apparently profunctor optics are what it takes to be proficient at functional programming nowadays.
03:51:45 <HackEgo> ☃:Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. \ evilipse:evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R \ ha:Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé e
03:52:13 <oerjan> i seem to like not using commas
03:52:26 <shachaf> There are no wisdomfmt rules.
03:53:23 <HackEgo> 428) <monqy> beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 476) <monqy> i am out of all the fame loops <monqy> and the australien soap opera loops <monqy> so much loop / s omcuh \ 1028) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone \ 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thoug
03:54:06 <HackEgo> 2/3:in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." \ 1258) <mauris> MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW \ 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity
03:54:39 <oerjan> a sublime poetry collection
03:54:49 <ais523> is there a `3 as well? if so, how far do the numbers go?
03:54:57 <ais523> or do we generate them automatically
03:55:02 <ais523> (idea: using `n generates a command for `n+1)
03:55:09 <HackEgo> 3/3: / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:55:15 <ais523> (thus if used as intended we never run out)
03:55:33 <shachaf> Well, the only reason `2 exists is if you forgot to use `1
03:55:43 <shachaf> Otherwise you can use `spam n to see the nth line of output of the previous command.
03:55:54 <shachaf> nth IRC line, I mean. Not line line.
03:56:06 <ais523> oh, I see, `1 sets up for `spam, and `2 retroactively `1s the last message
03:56:06 <ais523> but you have to tell it what it was because HackEgo isn't stateful unless you tell it to be
03:56:38 <shachaf> We could replace `` with `1
03:57:30 <ais523> yes, useless commits for every command that doesn't overspam
03:57:44 <ais523> another possibility is to commit only if the command generates multiple IRC lines of output
03:57:57 <ais523> oh, it uses tempfiles?
03:58:11 <shachaf> /tmp doesn't persist across HackEgo invocations.
03:58:18 <shachaf> But /hackenv/tmp is in .hgignore
04:00:36 <ais523> now I'm wondering what happens if you put .hgignore in itself
04:00:46 <ais523> would the change not be saved? or would it be impossible to revert?
04:01:05 <shachaf> hg checks .hgignore on commit
04:01:09 <ais523> I guess it'd revert because the .hgignore would be versioned in the revision you're reverting /to/…
04:01:54 <shachaf> No, it wouldn't be reverted. It would just not be recorded.
04:02:05 <shachaf> One trick you can do is putting a wildcard in .hgignore that ignores everything.
04:02:53 <shachaf> I think the effect of that is that all changes until the wildcard is removed aren't committed.
04:03:17 <shachaf> Wait, maybe I'm thinking of the other case, where you put canary in .hgignore and delete it.
04:03:23 <shachaf> There were too many cases, I can't remember.
04:03:24 <ais523> wouldn't that change to .hgignore itself not be commited?
04:03:31 <shachaf> The point is, we figured out how to delete canary.
04:03:38 <shachaf> (But not how to commit it.)
04:03:39 <ais523> I like the idea of ignoring the canary, though
04:03:45 <ais523> it still wouldn't be a /proper/ deletion of the canary though, would it?
04:03:56 <ais523> would a revert restore it?
04:04:01 <shachaf> `` echo '^canary' >> .hgignore
04:04:19 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
04:04:31 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
04:04:47 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6361 743a 2063 616e 6172 793a 204e 6f20 cat: canary: No \ 0000010: 7375 6368 2066 696c 6520 6f72 2064 6972 such file or dir \ 0000020: 6563 746f 7279 0a ectory.
04:05:02 <ais523> oh, that message is actually the contents of canary
04:05:27 <HackEgo> .hgignore//^tmp/ \ canary
04:05:31 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:05:39 <ais523> err, hmm, I think I raceconditioned your revert
04:05:51 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:06:15 <shachaf> Hmm, how did we remove canary back then?
04:06:44 <ais523> I know I tried to replace it with a symlink to itself once, but I don't think that worked
04:06:50 <HackEgo> ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information.
04:06:54 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary
04:06:57 <HackEgo> ln: `canary' and `canary' are the same file
04:07:09 <shachaf> `slwd .hgignore//2s#.*#.*#
04:07:13 <ais523> …and why would ln care about that?
04:07:16 <shachaf> `sled .hgignore//2s#.*#.*#
04:07:51 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 3: unexpected `,'
04:11:24 <shachaf> `` echo ^canary/ >> .hgignore
04:11:35 <shachaf> `` rm -rf canary; mkdir canary
04:11:50 <HackEgo> canary: ERROR: cannot open `canary' (No such file or directory)
04:11:59 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
04:12:29 <shachaf> Now all commits will fail.
04:17:31 <ais523> apart from commits that create canary, presumably?
04:17:41 <ais523> `` echo test | tee test
04:17:47 <HackEgo> cat: test: No such file or directory
04:17:58 <shachaf> Well, creating canary won't be a commit, because it's ignored.
04:18:38 <ais523> `` sed -i '2,$d' .hgignore; touch canary
04:18:58 <ais523> looks like it is possible after all :-)
04:19:19 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary-tmp; mv canary-tmp canary
04:19:20 <HackEgo> mv: `canary-tmp' and `canary' are the same file
04:19:39 <HackEgo> canary-tmp: symbolic link to `canary'
04:20:01 <ais523> `mv -f canary-tmp canary
04:20:01 <HackEgo> mv: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
04:20:05 <ais523> `` mv -f canary-tmp canary
04:20:06 <HackEgo> mv: `canary-tmp' and `canary' are the same file
04:21:10 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary-tmp2
04:21:19 <ais523> `` mv canary-tmp2 canary-tmp
04:21:37 <ais523> oh, so it allows /that/, but doesn't allow renaming a symlink over the file it's a symlink too?
04:21:49 <ais523> `` ln -sf ../canary tmp/canary-tmp3
04:22:19 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp3 canary
04:22:20 <HackEgo> mv: `tmp/canary-tmp3' and `canary' are the same file
04:22:27 <ais523> but after the rename, they wouldn't be!
04:22:46 <ais523> (I tried to tab-complete that; it didn't work)
04:22:52 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:18 canary \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:20 canary-tmp -> canary
04:23:35 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp4
04:23:44 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp4 canary
04:23:47 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp4': No such file or directory
04:24:06 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary*: No such file or directory
04:24:26 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:23 canary \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:20 canary-tmp -> canary
04:24:49 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary tmp/canary-tmp4; ls -l tmp/canary*
04:24:50 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:24 tmp/canary-tmp4 -> canary
04:24:58 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp4 canary
04:25:00 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp4': No such file or directory
04:25:01 <shachaf> ais523: What's possible after all?
04:25:19 <ais523> shachaf: committing into your system that doesn't allow commits
04:25:39 <shachaf> I think what I said was that it doesn't allow commits as long as that file doesn't exist.
04:25:55 <ais523> although I don't seem to be able to create tmp/canary-tmp4 and have it persist, for some reason
04:25:56 <shachaf> But creating the file isn't a commit in itself, because it's ignored.
04:26:08 <ais523> which is bizarre, as tmp/canary-tmp3 worked fine
04:26:35 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:26:47 <HackEgo> cat: canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:26:53 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:26:53 <ais523> aha, I think I know what's happening
04:26:57 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:27:05 <ais523> broken symlinks get deleted from the filesystem
04:27:11 <shachaf> It's pretty, what's the word oerjan uses?
04:27:18 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:19 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `tmp/canary-tmp': File exists
04:27:31 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: ll: command not found
04:27:35 <shachaf> Did you see the tmp/ thing I did above? It's not related to links.
04:27:36 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:37 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:25 tmp/canary-tmp -> canary
04:28:02 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:28:04 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp': No such file or directory
04:28:13 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary-tmp
04:28:14 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:28:30 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:28:44 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:28:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:29:02 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Dec 3 04:28 tmp
04:29:26 <shachaf> This tricks people who try to make a big file in one commit by writing into tmp/ in a few commands and then moving it.
04:29:48 <ais523> does tmp get cleared whenever you write to outside tmp, then?
04:29:52 <ais523> it doesn't seem to get cleared instantly
04:30:01 <ais523> `` ls -l canary tmp/canary-tmp; mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:30:02 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory \ mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp': No such file or directory \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:27 canary
04:30:10 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp; mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:30:19 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:29 canary
04:30:28 <shachaf> tmp/ isn't getting cleared.
04:30:37 <ais523> I guess making the canary a symlink isn't getting committed
04:31:18 <ais523> but I'm not sure what's causing, say, mv to fail to find files in tmp
04:31:20 <ais523> unless mv is not /bin/mb
04:32:19 <shachaf> `` echo hi; echo hi > test
04:32:34 <shachaf> `` echo hi >&2; echo huh > test
04:32:47 <ais523> <shachaf> `cat tmp/test <HackEgo> hi <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test . <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:32:49 <shachaf> I don't remember the details anymore.
04:32:55 <ais523> this is probably the best example/counterexample
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04:33:00 <shachaf> I know what's happening, though.
04:33:11 <ais523> oh, the fact that HackEgo runs each command twice
04:33:18 <ais523> once for side effects, once for the output
04:33:28 <ais523> if I call mv, the file's already moved by the time it goes to run it for the output
04:33:32 <ais523> and so it doesn't find it the second time
04:33:45 <shachaf> It runs it once, and then if the repository changes, it reverts to a clean state and runs it again.
04:33:52 <shachaf> While not allowing other commands in parallel.
04:34:10 <shachaf> But the revert doesn't restore the file in tmp/, because it's ignored.
04:34:18 <shachaf> And it does delete the destination file.
04:34:20 <ais523> right, so the file just vanishes altogether
04:41:15 <shachaf> I wish we could get to tmp/ via the HTTP server.
04:41:20 <shachaf> I don't like pastes being committed to hg.
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06:37:17 <zzo38> How could collaborative quiz writing with Internet Quiz Engine work?
06:37:38 <shachaf> How does regular quiz writing work?
06:39:10 <zzo38> It is simply a text file. The format would be the same in this case, I would just to see how collaborative quiz writing might be done
06:39:33 <shachaf> Use a collaborative text editor like Etherpad or Gobby to edit the text file together?
06:40:57 <zzo38> Maybe for real time collaboration (if that is what it does), but maybe there is other ways I don't know
06:41:20 <zzo38> Actually I think there are different things which can be wanted, such as real time collaboration or not real time
06:41:36 <shachaf> Real time is better than not real time.
06:48:04 <zzo38> I suppose one way might be to make discussion on IRC for various people to suggest questions and one person to write them into one file, but another way might be for anyone to edit the file as a wiki, although there still may be some issues involved with such thing specifically with Internet Quiz Engine or with quiz files for other systems too just in general.
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07:01:06 <HackEgo> 1/2:the u//The U are a very mad people. \ phantom____________________hoover//<span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span> \ physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English. \ nooga//no. \ dragon//Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. T
07:01:28 <HackEgo> 2/2:aneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
07:01:37 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: type: n: not found
07:02:03 <HackEgo> 2/2:aneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
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08:06:29 <HackEgo> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
08:07:23 <zzo38> I found that the uncompressed size of FreeUHS is smaller than the compressed size of OpenUHS (not counting the stuff under the javadoc/ directory). Even though, FreeUHS also includes such feature as regular expression search, toggle 88a mode, a compiler, and some other features.
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13:43:22 <boily> fungot: I said nostril.
13:43:32 <boily> fungot: the nostril was said.
13:45:50 <fizzie> fungot: What have you got against nostrils?
13:45:50 <fungot> fizzie: i fnord accept the account in wikipedia as the one over there...
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14:05:53 <Ox0dea> A coistril was something akin to a squire once.
14:06:00 <Ox0dea> Bonus points for being anagrammatical with "clitoris".
14:06:52 <Ox0dea> And "testril" is apparently an archaic synonym for "tester".
14:06:57 <Ox0dea> These are all the strils I know.
14:07:52 <fizzie> WordNet knows about Zestril.
14:07:56 <lambdabot> *** "zestril" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
14:07:56 <lambdabot> n 1: an ACE inhibiting drug (trade names Prinival or Zestril)
14:07:56 <lambdabot> administered as an antihypertensive and after heart attacks
14:07:56 <lambdabot> [syn: {lisinopril}, {Prinival}, {Zestril}]
14:08:11 <Ox0dea> Proper nouns are verboten.
14:08:15 <fizzie> Zestril and nostril are the two stril nouns it knows.
14:08:33 <Ox0dea> I got my fancy ones from words-insane.
14:11:13 <boily> I'll try to use “testril” with my teammates. mwah ah ah.
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18:21:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50440&oldid=50437 * Slnetaiga * (+12) Added LAMPA
18:22:44 <Zarutian> one the topic of noise, why is there so much of it in todays world?
18:23:23 <Zarutian> an I am talking about audio noise made by thoughtlessness or brusequeness
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18:34:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LAMPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50441 * Slnetaiga * (+1096) Initial
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18:35:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50442&oldid=50415 * Slnetaiga * (+26)
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19:08:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * John Cena 237894728 * New user account
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19:54:01 <Taneb> I finally uploaded my COMPLEX implementation
19:54:01 <Taneb> https://github.com/Taneb/COMPLEX
19:59:12 <boily> Tanelle. dig the file extension ^^
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20:24:31 <Kaynato> Someone's been trying to make a non-trivial quine in Daoyu and I don't know if I should tell them to stop
20:25:13 <Kaynato> Is there a way to prove a non-empty quine nonexistent in a specific language?
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21:11:05 <FreeFull> Is there any programming language that literally has programmable semicolons?
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21:36:30 <FreeFull> zzo38: One "analogy" for monads in haskell is programmable semicolons
21:36:41 <FreeFull> But I'm thinking about something more literal
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21:42:42 <zzo38> I don't know, but still it is difficult for me to figure out what is meant exactly
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22:07:03 <FreeFull> zzo38: At each semicolon, some extra code runs and decides what to do with that line
22:09:04 <zzo38> I don't know of any such thing, nor does that really make much sense to me anyways exactly as is
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22:09:23 <zzo38> (and monads in Haskell don't work like that anyways)
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22:28:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50443&oldid=50388 * BradleySadowsky * (+59) Add links, fix implementation naming
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23:06:26 <izalove> midnight spaghetti, anyone?
23:07:34 <Taneb> I think you may be a bit far away
23:07:39 <Taneb> Unless you are in, like, York
23:09:42 <shachaf> I made midnight spaghetti recently.
23:09:51 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Sat Dec 03 23:09:44
23:10:09 <shachaf> Is Italian spaghetti better than the kind I bought at the store?
23:11:11 <izalove> i hope so because i bought expensive ones
23:11:23 <ybden> shachaf: Did you buy it at a store in Italy?
23:11:55 <Taneb> shachaf, I have not had Italian spaghetti in like 3 months
23:12:35 <Taneb> Although that was in Sudtirol, so it may not count
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23:52:21 <FireFly> Taneb: hm, York is pretty far away from Bristol, isn't it
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23:53:19 <mad> gripe of the day:
23:53:37 <mad> x86 division is wrong in, like, 4 different ways at the same time
23:56:19 <zzo38> What ways is that?
23:56:42 <mad> zero division exceptions are bad and actually make the cpu slower
23:56:44 <impomatic_> I want to visit York soon for the retro games shop!
23:57:00 <mad> -1 / 2 gives 0. that's bad and irl it should give -1
23:57:59 <mad> also it generates multiple results - division result in one register and remainder in another. multiple result instructions are bad
23:58:30 <mad> also some of the registers you use are fixed and that's also bad
23:58:32 <izalove> returning only one would mean to throw away information
23:58:56 <mad> (because compilers hate fixed registers because it turns register allocation into an np complete problem)
23:59:03 <zzo38> I think it is good if they can more easily to calculate both at once
23:59:06 <mad> also division sets flags which is also bad
23:59:19 <mad> izalove : it's good on a 486
23:59:41 <mad> which runs in order and doesn't do 4 operations at the same tiem
00:00:20 <mad> izalove : on an out-of-order pipeline, the problem with multiple result instructions is that they really take 2 slots on the pipeline
00:01:04 <mad> which means you have 1 slot instructions and 2 slot instructions and that complexifies the scheduler
00:01:24 <izalove> idiv is slower than the rest of the pipeline anyway
00:01:53 <mad> most instructions are 1 slot which means you're basically adding some extra stalling stuff for no good reason really
00:02:20 <mad> izalove : that's also a thing... you want to have slow instructions have as few side effects as possible
00:02:56 <mad> this is why zero division exceptions are bad actually
00:03:53 <mad> yes but the problem is that it basically turns into a conditional jump
00:04:24 <mad> it's a cpu design problem
00:04:49 <izalove> what's the alternative? idiv should have like 4 operands?
00:05:11 <mad> every conditional instruction needs to be tracked by the retirement system
00:05:20 <mad> which means that it has to be able to rollback everything
00:05:42 <mad> idiv should be 32/32->32
00:05:48 <mad> and strictly arithmetic
00:06:07 <mad> change no flags, no exceptions, no extra remainder register
00:06:37 <mad> and negative results should round the same as positive results - down
00:06:48 <mad> so that the compiler can optimize /8 as >>3
00:06:51 <izalove> but that means to throw away information
00:07:06 <mad> irl 99.9% of divisions are C++'s / operator
00:07:12 <izalove> you can't compute division without computing both results
00:07:17 <mad> which only gives you the 32 bit result and nothing else
00:07:51 <mad> you need to use some non portable intrinsic if you want the full result, and that only compiles on x86
00:07:57 <mad> which means that nobody ever uses it
00:08:14 <mad> people use /
00:08:30 <mad> / is 32x32->32
00:08:45 <mad> or 64x64->64 on 64-bit when using 64-bit types
00:09:16 <mad> if you really need more of the result 99.9% of the time you'll just switch to floating point anyways
00:10:15 <mad> it's the same thing as the higher bits of the result of * on 32bit cpus
00:10:40 <mad> in theory 32*32 division gives you 64 bits of result so you might want to keep those higher bits
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00:10:59 <mad> in theory 32*32 multiplication gives you 64 bits of result so you might want to keep those higher bits
00:11:26 <mad> in practice 99% of the actual multiplications in actual programs are 32*32->32 simply because that's how C++'s * operator works
00:11:56 <izalove> again you're throwing away information
00:11:58 <mad> so you end up with the problem of having an opcode that doesn't work in the way people actually use it
00:12:18 <mad> izalove : real programs throw away information
00:12:59 <mad> and for programs it's better to have less information but have multiply results come in 1 cycle earlier because it's easier to schedule and implement fast on silicon
00:13:06 <zzo38> I had different idea, you have partially reprogrammable microcodes, and part of the C runtime is in the microcodes
00:13:43 <mad> zzo38 : how does that make your cpu faster
00:15:01 <zzo38> The microcode is reprogrammed to make whatever operation is the mainly one faster.
00:15:15 <zzo38> (As well as smaller code, if applicable)
00:15:15 <mad> izalove : like, what's good for programs is something like the GBA's multiply... it throws away bits and is only 32*32->32... BUT it comes out in 1 cycle if the multiplicator is 8bit (and games used this a ton)
00:15:42 <zzo38> You don't have to access the external RAM during part of the operation therefore it can do two thing at once and be faster.
00:16:36 <mad> zzo38 : irl on x86, memcpy() has been faster in some tight software loop rather than REP STOSB for years
00:17:13 <int-e> . o O ( and more correct too )
00:17:19 <mad> and that's one C++ library function that cpu designers know that people use and needs to be fast and could specifically optimize for
00:17:33 <int-e> mad: are you mixing up memset and memcpy or stosb and movsb?
00:18:12 <zzo38> I do know of that things in memcpy() for in x86
00:18:22 <mad> the general problem is
00:19:11 <mad> to run your microcoded block copy, the cpu has to make sure it doesn't conflict with any other operations in the pipeline
00:19:21 <mad> which means that it's slow to start and to stop
00:19:44 <mad> to make sure the cpu doesn't reorder the micro-ops in a wrong way or something like that
00:20:01 <zzo38> And that is done in my design by the blitter, so it does not block microcode (although it does block memory access, meaning you still have to wait before the next non-microcode instruction is executed)
00:20:33 <mad> zzo38 : what sort of microcode operations do you have that don't access memory? :D
00:21:13 <mad> like, even operations like function call and return have memory accesses in them
00:21:13 <zzo38> All of them mandatorily do access memory actually, but you can just suppress that part while the blitter is in operation.
00:21:22 <int-e> mad: and what's the point of making rep movsb fast if the language runtimes don't use it anymore anyway...
00:21:43 <int-e> (circular reasoning is fun)
00:21:57 <mad> int-e : who knows, maybe they've put reb movsb back in by now
00:22:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JGeo * New user account
00:22:28 <mad> I guess it's particularly compact in the instruction cache
00:22:29 <Jafet> int-e: ask intel, who made it really fast again in ivy bridge
00:22:46 <Jafet> or maybe it was haswell
00:23:06 <mad> but I'm not sure icache compactness on that kind of operation is really worth it
00:24:57 <Jafet> also full euclidean division is used very often: when calculating rectangular array indices, or in high-precision arithmetic
00:25:39 <Jafet> those are the uses that need to be optimal, not C programmers' bizarre * and / operators
00:26:01 <mad> in what field? :D
00:27:09 <mad> in sound processing (my field), if you're running into precision limits of / you switch to floating point
00:27:51 <mad> but it's true that if you're doing bignum processing then that's a different thing and then it might be good
00:29:00 <mad> a whole bunch of cpu design decisions that make no sense in general purpose code (flags registers, add-with-carry, 32*32->64 multiply, etc) suddenly make total sense if you're doing bignum, yes
00:29:03 <Jafet> even remainder-less division gives the quotient to full precision, so there is no precision limit involved
00:29:18 <Jafet> what do you mean by precision?
00:29:40 <zzo38> Other thing is if writing assembly-language programming, but that is only if you target a specific computer
00:29:47 <mad> well, sound never needs more than 64 bit programming
00:30:06 <mad> 64 bit double precision float is really good enough for the ear
00:30:19 <mad> and 99% of the time 32 bit float is good enough as well, for audio
00:30:50 <mad> 3d gfx in video games is another different field so I expect it breaks some other way :3
00:30:54 <Jafet> most CPUs don't provide euclidean division for more than 64-bit integers, so nothing is wasted there (except having a remainder in signal processing would be odd)
00:31:45 <mad> irl if I need a remainder 99% of the time I can change scaling factors and then just do var &= 0xfff
00:32:15 <mad> so in a way, my code has a ton of remainders, but they're all implemented with bitmasks
00:32:52 <zzo38> One program I wrote that is doing sound processing is XISYNTH, which internally works with 64-bit floating-points but it must downgrade the signal to 16-bit integers when output.
00:32:54 <Jafet> does that work when the divisor is not a power of 2?
00:33:05 <mad> Jafet : of course not :D
00:33:14 <Jafet> then you weren't doing any divisions at all
00:33:34 <zzo38> (But there is also one option you can tell it to downgrade to 8-bits instead, but by default it downgrades to 16-bits)
00:33:49 <mad> it's very rare to have variable quotients in signal processing
00:34:04 <mad> so 99% of the time if / shows up, turn it into *
00:35:10 <mad> one case I can think of is ramping a value over a block linearly...
00:35:30 <mad> then stepsize = (endvalue - startvalue) / blocksize
00:36:27 <mad> in that _one_ particular case, /'s way of rounding upwards in the negatives instead of downwards as usual sorta helps you-ish
00:37:50 <mad> if you have to ramp more than 1 parameter, then it's better to do 1/blocksize once and then use * for each ramped value
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01:37:59 <izalove> are these characters sorted by brightness?
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01:43:31 <mad> = is less bright than * on my font
01:43:50 <mad> you might want to look into % $ @ &
01:44:32 <otherbot> Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
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02:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: This is a meaningless question without font choice
02:11:59 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: it is also a question on transliteration-orthography (or how it is for one is using something like freemasons 'cipher')
02:12:42 <Zarutian> (or eljian script which is very similiar)
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02:22:29 <ais523> ugh, and I have a new language I want to document
02:22:48 <ais523> for the time being, you can get an interpreter with embedded spec from http://nethack4.org/esolangs/7/7.pl
02:23:27 <shachaf> But it's being served as application/x-perl :-(
02:26:15 <ais523> for me that opens it in a text editor, with syntax highlighting
02:26:28 <ais523> given that the spec is in perldoc anyway, a browser wouldn't be ideal for viewing it
02:28:19 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: lets hear that brilliant idea or least a rough sketch of it
02:28:36 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Basically, make a font with non-english characters for the alphabet
02:29:02 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: like the fúþark runic charset?
02:29:28 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Take advantage of brain's neuroplasticity to read in it. Never have anyone read over my shoulder again.
02:31:13 <ais523> who's in charge of the wiki? fizzie? we should probably ping whoever it is to let them know the wiki's down
02:31:17 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: I have used an variant of 'younger swedish fúþark' to write semi private notes. That is, notes that I do not intend to be glanced at and absorbed by people seeing my writing.
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02:48:07 <shachaf> who keeps the wiki up these days?
02:48:52 <oerjan> but only if the server is up
02:51:55 <oerjan> i guess the server isn't up, then.
02:52:05 <lambdabot> CYYZ 040200Z 28008KT 15SM BKN049 03/M01 A3020 RMK SC7 SLP235
02:52:56 <shachaf> @@ @@ (@where weather) KOAK KSFO KSJC
02:52:59 <lambdabot> KOAK 040153Z 34004KT 10SM FEW200 13/09 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP220 T01280094 \ KSFO 040156Z 29010KT 9SM FEW015 FEW200 13/10 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP220 T01280100 $ \ KSJC 040153Z 27003KT 10SM FEW050 SCT100 13/04
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03:00:06 <mad> is there a way to turn the knapsack problem into a turing machine? (by introducing something like an infinite number of items or something)
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03:15:31 <oerjan> <izalove> midnight spaghetti, anyone? <-- already had some at approx. 22:30 hth
03:15:50 <izalove> that's no midnight spaghetti >:O
03:18:26 <shachaf> oerjan can eat midnight spaghetti at whatever hour he pleases hth
03:20:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50444&oldid=50440 * Ais523 * (+8) /* Non-alphabetic */ +[[7]]
03:20:42 <ais523> wiki's back up I think
03:22:23 <oerjan> we seem to have two new users who couldn't get past the filter
03:23:10 <oerjan> and one tried a ridiculous amount of times...
03:24:37 <ais523> what were they doing wrong?
03:25:17 <oerjan> kept adding a http link
03:26:06 <oerjan> the other one didn't get to the introduction at all
03:26:38 <oerjan> although i'm not sure the edit he tried to make wasn't a copyvio
03:28:39 * oerjan is too lazy to download that mediafire one
03:31:29 <Jafet> mad: a declarative, additive version of fractran?
03:31:55 <Jafet> making it declarative shouldn't be too hard, but making it additive could be
03:32:38 <oerjan> although that's still multiplicative in notation
03:33:23 <oerjan> i'm reminded of sylver coinage
03:34:22 <oerjan> (being terminating for a start)
03:35:21 <Jafet> well, the first few moves are unbounded
03:41:00 <Jafet> (compare http://mathoverflow.net/q/122250, a chess position with game length ω)
03:41:45 <Jafet> has sylver coinage been proven to terminate?
03:42:37 <Jafet> that is, is it known whether every game has finite optimal moves
03:42:43 <oerjan> um it's proven that it terminates
03:43:11 <oerjan> regardless of what the players do
03:44:13 <Jafet> maybe “terminate” was the wrong word
03:44:45 <oerjan> you mean if perfect play is known?
03:45:17 <Jafet> for example, could there be any position where the losing player can force the game to be arbitrarily long?
03:45:52 <oerjan> any player can always play 1 to win.
03:47:39 <Jafet> some games with unbounded move choices (even where every game is finite) have been proven undecidable
03:49:12 <oerjan> hm the first player to name 2 or 3 would also lose
03:50:09 <oerjan> oh it's not been solved
03:50:44 <mad> expecting infinite chess to be found turing complete under the right conditions
03:51:21 <shachaf> "Hutchings's Theorem states that any of the prime numbers 5, 7, 11, 13, …, wins as a first move, but very little is known about the subsequent winning moves: these are the only winning openings known. Complete winning strategies are known for answering the losing openings 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 12."
03:51:26 <shachaf> this game sounds pretty good
03:51:30 <mad> though the transfinite thing is interesting
03:51:33 <Jafet> mad: I think it is, but all constructions so far require infinitely many pieces
03:51:54 <mad> you need some source of infinite information
03:52:01 <Jafet> using finitely many pieces is an open problem
03:52:13 <mad> so either soem infinitely movable piece
03:52:23 <mad> or infinitely many pieces yes
03:53:04 <Jafet> I don't think it's been proven that either of those are even necessary for undecidability
03:53:27 <Jafet> the board is infinite, so in principle short-moving pieces can move an unbounded distance
03:53:59 <mad> you for the amount of information in your state to be always able to grow more
03:54:34 <mad> er... what you need, is that the amount of information in your state needs to be always able to grow more
03:54:39 <Jafet> in particular, they could move an unbounded distance away from each other, and it's plausible that this could store unbounded information
03:55:28 <mad> you need 2x unbounded counters + 1 state (bounded) for a minsky machine
03:55:32 <Jafet> maybe this would not work in a directmate construction, because the pieces would no longer influence each other
03:56:26 <Jafet> you could use sets of passed pawns though, as their moves are irreversible
03:57:57 <mad> given a board with one-ways, 'wire crossings' (ie superposed paths in 2d), and a mix of different infinitely repeated sections, you can get computation using the movement of 1 piece (by using the x and y position as your two unbounded minsky-machine counters, and using which path you're on as the state)
04:00:05 <mad> for unbounded chess...
04:00:17 <mad> you'd need 2 unbounded movable pieces
04:00:32 <mad> that can be moved +1 or -1 an infinite number of times
04:01:05 <mad> and if they move back to position 0 they change state transitions
04:04:06 <Jafet> hmm, a “knapsack” problem over a word group (instead of an additive group) is undecidable again, because it is a post correspondence system
04:06:07 <Jafet> you could try and determine if a knapsack problem where each item value is a k-tuple of integers is decidable
04:06:15 <Jafet> (the standard knapsack problem is where k=1)
04:09:05 <Jafet> having a deterministic (order-independent) fractran UTM would show that a finite k-knapsack is curly-L-complete
04:09:30 <Jafet> k would be the number of prime factors in the fractran program
04:15:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[7]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50445 * Ais523 * (+10419) new language!
04:16:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50446&oldid=50252 * Ais523 * (+7) +[[7]]
04:17:13 <mad> kinda wonder what infinichess would look like on a hyperbolic plane
04:18:25 <\oren\> if the right winger win the election tomorrow, maybe austria will demand south tyrol back
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04:39:06 <mad> why not poland with that
04:41:29 <\oren\> maybe if the right wingers win in poland, they can insto space
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04:59:05 <lambdabot> mnislaih says: When one of the Simons says that he is having trouble reading your code, you ought to listen!
04:59:11 <lambdabot> davidhasselh0f says: [on SPJ's "A Taste of Haskell" tutorial]: It's better than sex.
04:59:16 <lambdabot> Failure02 says: in haskell you can have korean smilies as variables! like (^-^)
04:59:20 <HackEgo> 1259) <fungot> boily: some girl from germany just messaged me and turned out the freezer was set to some sort of esoteric natural language.
04:59:36 <\oren\> YAAAAY Hackego is back!
05:00:15 <HackEgo> 536) <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, any organisation called the Scottish Defence League should be beating up English people, what other point would there be?
05:07:42 <zzo38> One chess variant I have read about is all pieces also have the power of pawns (except for promotion) in addition to their normal powers. Double-step is possible from your second rank, in which case they can be captured by en-passan by any other pieces. In the default variant, rooks and queens cannot be captured by en-passan.
05:09:06 <zzo38> I can think of two other kinds of subvariants though. One is that rooks and queens can be captured by en-passan, but only if it moves two spaces forward from your second rank without capturing anything. The other possible way is that it is only allowed if it would otherwise be stalemate, and then only if the player who moved the rook/queen agrees to let you to capture it so that the game can continue.
05:16:55 <Jafet> turns out that mate-in-n problems with finitely many pieces are decidable, because each of the n moves can be described in presburger arithmetic: https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.5597
05:19:12 <zzo38> To have an infinite number of pieces is only also with infinite size of board
05:32:00 <Jafet> I hear that playing in some places might get you a Czech mate
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07:01:37 <ais523> Jafet: I assume that this is finitely many pieces, but an infinite board? otherwise it's obviously decidable by brute force
07:01:51 <ais523> next question: we know it isn't above TC; is it below TC?
07:08:33 <oerjan> decidable implies below TC, usually?
07:09:40 <ais523> it's 7am and I haven't gone to bed yet
07:10:20 * oerjan is about to consider it
07:10:37 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sun Dec 4 08:10:37 2016
07:10:45 <shachaf> maybe you want to have some midnight spaghetti
07:11:52 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently there's some massive pm-spamming advertising campaign going on on freenode right now
07:12:07 <ais523> does it involve spaghetti by any chance?
07:19:03 <sam[0]> Apparently "this irc" is being moved
07:19:26 <hppavilion[1]> Stay out of the big channels and you won't get spammed
07:19:50 <sam[0]> Or just set usermode +R
07:20:14 <sam[0]> Stops unregged nicks PMing you
07:20:26 <ais523> sam is an editor, not a model of laptop
07:21:01 <sam[0]> Ah, that's due to something from another channel
07:21:17 <sam[0]> A disagreement about who the original sam was
07:23:39 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: well [1] isn't a laptop model as far as I know
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07:54:44 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sat Dec 3 23:54:41 2016
07:54:48 <shachaf> izalove: presently cooking spaghetti
07:54:48 <izalove> i need a cool nonsense name for a project
07:54:57 <izalove> thanks that's a great name
07:57:32 <izalove> at first i wanted to use presently-cooking-spaghetti but then it was too long to type
07:58:29 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Go with something that treats "spaghet" as if it were a greek root
08:00:30 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Sun Dec 4 00:00:27 2016
08:00:36 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Spaghettification is the actual, scientific term for how you get torn apart as you fall into a black hole
08:00:57 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: At some point, your legs move faster than your head (...assuming you fall feet first) and you're torn in half
08:00:59 <shachaf> If you're trying not to ping me by saying "chaf's", it's not working.
08:01:20 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: I knew it'd ping you, I just wanted to call you "der chaf"
08:01:24 <hppavilion[0]> izalove: Then the same thing happens to each piece then
08:01:38 <hppavilion[0]> Until you're just a train of individual particles falling into a singularity
08:02:13 <izalove> why does everything you say end up with me in particles falling apart
08:02:29 <shachaf> hppavilion[0]: pretty sure that hasn't been observed and therefore can't be called science hth
08:02:56 <shachaf> https://aaronkcollett.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/0055_08.gif
08:05:48 <shachaf> http://media.chick.com/tractimages67491/0055/0055_14.gif
08:09:34 <pikhq> Oh right, there was a celebrity death I approved of this year.
08:10:20 <shachaf> How should we build, package, and deploy software?
08:10:42 <pikhq> Oh gee, that's a hard question.
08:10:56 <pikhq> Why don't you give me an easier one, like "does P=NP?"
08:11:46 <shachaf> And I'm not asking you for a proof.
08:12:01 <pikhq> Would you say there exists a proof this IRC line is too small to contain?
08:12:29 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
08:13:02 <shachaf> oerjan: What if `` piped the output through a program that automatically became a variant of `1 when the output was long enough?
08:13:17 <shachaf> pikhq: You can do a lot in 330 bytes. I wouldn't bet on it.
08:17:41 <pikhq> I estimate there are approximately 330*2^8 possibilities.
08:18:01 <pikhq> (actually less, but that's a decent lazy upper bound)
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09:14:38 <ais523> if there were a 330-byte proof that P≠NP, I'd expect it to have been discovered by now
09:15:01 <ais523> one of the main results of my PhD thesis had a proof that was only about a paragraph long, it might be golfed into that length
09:23:27 <Jafet> a sufficiently well-written 330-character grant application ought to do the job
09:25:10 <Jafet> failing that, a 330-character invitation to attend your keynote where you will present the most important 23 problems of this century
09:25:36 <ais523> is it possible that P=?NP is undecidable? (if it is, I'm pretty sure you can prove that you can't prove that it's undecidable)
09:26:21 <ais523> (because doing so would prove that no algorithm for solving an NP-complete problem can provably run in polynomial time, and it's hard to see how an algorithm could run in polynomial time but unprovably so)
09:27:26 <ais523> <shachaf> How should we build, package, and deploy software? ← via an international hub for software design and deployment
09:27:37 <ais523> (alternative answer: aimake, preferably the vaporware version that I haven't even really started yet)
09:28:02 <shachaf> I initially understood that sentence as "I'm pretty sure you can prove that, if it is, you can't prove that it's undecidable"
09:28:26 <shachaf> Which I think is a stronger statement. But you can't trust me after midnight spaghetti.
09:29:23 <Jafet> well, suppose that you try to brute-force a problem that turns out to always has a solution of size O(log n), but you can't prove it
09:29:25 <shachaf> Ah, I should have looked it up.
09:29:26 <ais523> shachaf: a build system I've been working on for several years now
09:29:41 <Jafet> I can't think of an example, though
09:29:43 <shachaf> I remember now that you've talked about it.
09:29:56 <ais523> it contains a (weak) AI that figures out how to build much of your code; it can also generate installers, at least on Windows
09:30:15 <shachaf> Jafet: This reminds me of a thing someone said once which I can't quite remember.
09:30:45 <shachaf> It was along the lines of, there's a problem which is undecidable, but decidable given an oracle for any undecidable problem.
09:31:29 <ais523> like, a minimally undecidable problem?
09:31:43 <ais523> is it known what the problem actually /is/, or merely proven that it exists?
09:31:51 <shachaf> Yes, I think it was known.
09:31:56 <shachaf> I might be misstating it, though.
09:32:39 <shachaf> I'll ask in the other channel.
09:33:43 <Jafet> partial example: a simplex algorithm with a sufficiently clever oracle for pivoting might always run in polynomial time, though it could be extremely hard to prove this
09:36:50 <shachaf> ais523: I don't think having to write a bit of metadata about my code is a build system problem.
09:37:04 <shachaf> I mean, a problem that I have with existing build systems.
09:37:19 <ais523> I think having to change the makefiles whenever you shuffle things around in your source tree is really annoying
09:37:57 <ais523> and things like determining which directories installed system header files are in is a problem that most build systems push onto the end user (!) even though they can be solved more easily by a computer than by a human
09:38:26 <shachaf> Well, I certainly think a build system's description files should be high-level and declarative, not lists of commands like Makefiles.
09:39:00 <Jafet> the worst metadata that a makefile forces you to write is the build dependencies
09:39:18 <shachaf> I'm not sure that explicit dependencies are that bad.
09:39:30 <Jafet> usually, you don't even know what they are, so why are you expected to write them correctly?
09:40:25 <shachaf> If you're using a library, you presumably know that you're using it.
09:41:18 <ais523> in aimake, you specify that you're using it (+ a symbol from the library to ensure that it finds the right one)
09:41:24 <ais523> you don't specify where it is, though
09:41:54 <shachaf> How do you specify something without specifying where it is?
09:42:12 <Jafet> I can specify shachaf without knowing where it is
09:42:34 <shachaf> ais523: Aha, I got a reference: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1907.pdf
09:42:49 <Jafet> I was referring, though, to libraries and binaries (such as compilers) that depend on other files
09:43:18 <shachaf> Well, you're implicitly referring to freenode:shachaf or, freenode:#esoteric:shachaf
09:44:28 <Jafet> fortunately, shachaf is sufficiently unique in this context
09:44:48 <Jafet> I wonder how aimake would deal with multiple versions of libraries, such as on a multiarch debian system
09:44:54 <shachaf> Right. Like you can specify a file with a relative path.
09:45:08 <shachaf> There's enough information from context that you're still specifying where it is.
09:47:33 <ais523> Jafet: that already happens with ncurses and ncursesw; it seems to just pick one that causes the link to succeed
09:48:02 <shachaf> OK, now I see what you mean.
09:48:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What are the actual limits of an IRC line length?
09:48:45 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: 510 characters including metadata
09:48:54 <ais523> it's sometimes a little hard to predict the length of the metadata though
09:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: And how short can you reliably get metadata down to?
09:49:05 <Jafet> (I believe that debian amd64 allows you to have three libc's simultaneously: :amd64, :i386, and the -i386 variant that exists for backwards compatibility)
09:49:10 <shachaf> 330 was conservative, if I remember correctly.
09:49:10 <ais523> so clients tend to wrap the lines early, and in general it's impossible to predict where you'll be cut off
09:49:48 <Jafet> oh, there are i686 variants as well (even for amd64‽) which brings the total to 5
09:50:43 <hppavilion[1]> Let's just assume any 330-8-bit-byte line can be used
09:50:44 <shachaf> 330 is for distort, though.
09:51:00 <hppavilion[1]> We have to include lines of length <330; I think those are distinct
09:52:18 <shachaf> "typedef char *char_p; char_p AIMAKE_EXPORT(function_returning_a_string)(void) /* exported */"
09:53:19 <ais523> it depends on whether they can be uniquely padded
09:53:25 <ais523> especially with trailing whitespace
09:53:35 <ais523> shachaf: I've had to jump through several hoops to avoid having to write a custom preprocessor :-(
09:53:48 <ais523> that is something I'd love to fix
09:54:04 <ais523> (also the typedef's only needed in gcc; IIRC it works in clang even with the obvious char *)
09:54:50 <shachaf> Oh, it's about shared libraries?
09:54:56 <shachaf> Why not statically link everything?
09:55:19 <shachaf> Wait, I might be confusing things.
09:56:51 <ais523> it's about getting aimake to generate shared libraries
09:57:10 <ais523> it has this feature because NitroHack used it, and the original motivation for aimake was that NitroHack's build system was broken
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11:07:37 <hppavilion[1]> Are all traditional programming languages (henceforth "borilangs", by analogy to "esolangs") analytic?
11:07:56 <izalove> what does analytic mean in this case?
11:08:21 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_language
11:08:24 <izalove> ah i know nothing about that
11:08:35 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: May I ask why you stopped being izabera at some point?
11:09:33 <Jafet> most “traditional” programming languages are actually fairly esoteric
11:10:06 <Jafet> at any rate, there is perligata, which is about as inflective on the word level as languages go
11:12:03 <hppavilion[1]> Oh god, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Inflection is appalling
11:12:55 <Jafet> http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Lingua-Romana-Perligata-0.50/lib/Lingua/Romana/Perligata.pm
11:17:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50447&oldid=50434 * JGeo * (+242) /* Introductions */
11:19:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50448&oldid=50447 * JGeo * (-242) /* Introductions */
11:20:21 <myname> is pr(a | emptyset) a valid thing to calculate?
11:21:04 <hppavilion[1]> thyname: Assuming you mean P(a|{}), yeah, but it'll always just be P(a) ips
11:21:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50449&oldid=50448 * JGeo * (+204) /* Introductions */
11:21:43 <myname> how so? i'd argue it is 0 because A | {} can never happen
11:22:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50450&oldid=50449 * JGeo * (+9) /* Introductions */
11:22:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Isn't P(A|{}) the probability of A given that {} is true?
11:22:26 <hppavilion[1]> myname: The probability that {} is true is... I think it's actually 1
11:22:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50451&oldid=50450 * JGeo * (+46) /* Introductions */
11:23:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50452&oldid=50451 * JGeo * (-1) /* Introductions */
11:23:36 <hppavilion[1]> But since the happenedness of {} is irrelevant to the probability of A (and also, since {} always happens anyway, it's not important), it doesn't change anything
11:24:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Piet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50453&oldid=47000 * JGeo * (+127) Added a link to a new Piet program.
11:26:19 <Jafet> no, because P(A | ∅) is defined as P(A ∩ ∅) / P(∅)
11:27:02 <myname> if it's 0 you cannot compute it
11:28:23 <Jafet> P(∅) is always zero
11:28:48 <myname> so it's not computable what P(a | {}) is?
11:29:08 <Jafet> now, a more interesting question is P(A | B) for a nonempty set B with probability measure 0
11:30:03 <myname> how is this more interesting?
11:30:20 <myname> well, empty set is just an edge case of that i guess
11:30:24 <Jafet> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borel–Kolmogorov_paradox
11:31:35 <myname> even the word is just horible
11:41:09 <Jafet> well, your thinking would be… unlikely to be correct
11:41:29 <Jafet> (in fact, it is correct with probability P(∅).)
12:10:05 <myname> would you say Pr(omega in S) is the probability of a given omega that has to be in S or the probability that a given omega is in S?
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13:21:47 <Jafet> does a samurai chicken lay samurai x?
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15:40:28 <fizzie> Outside in a lamp post there was a sticker with a photo of a cat, and the text: "If cats could talk to the cops, they wouldn't." And a logo of some organization with the word "anarchy" in the name.
15:41:34 <myname> bcause all cats are bastards?
15:43:26 <fizzie> I don't know. But this was the photo: https://twitter.com/mathieumatiu/status/649668969050308608
15:55:16 <int-e> myname: noooo, all cats are beautiful
15:56:29 <myname> int-e: i don't see any contradictions to what i said
15:57:10 <HackEgo> 1299 26146 156447 quotes
16:02:20 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
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17:24:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Redstarcoder * New user account
17:32:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50454&oldid=50452 * Redstarcoder * (+340) /* Introductions */
17:33:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50455&oldid=47187 * Redstarcoder * (-10) Tenatively removing "fish.go" as it doesn't look like it has ever compiled, and certainly not on a modern version of Go. Tenatively placed my own "go-fish" in the same area, which actually utilises the GOPATH and doesn't need anything arcane to run.
17:34:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50456&oldid=50455 * Redstarcoder * (+0) /* Interpreters */ Changed ordering to put the fishlanguage.com interpreter higher up.
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18:10:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50457&oldid=50456 * Redstarcoder * (+57) /* Interpreters */ Updated go-fish description to reflect recent changes
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21:10:58 <HackEgo> 937) <esomimic> fungot: begrudging pat
21:11:31 <HackEgo> 1168) <Sgeo> "A phone touted as the first to put privacy and security ahead of all other considerations launched at a packed event at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, Spain, today." <Sgeo> So, a paperweight? <FreeFull> Yes <pikhq> I dunno man, could be bugged.
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21:11:59 <HackEgo> 302) <augur> oerjan you're swedish, right?
21:12:04 <HackEgo> 397) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] <Taneb> You've just gave me a different result [...] <fizzie> It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur.
21:12:26 <HackEgo> 789) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:20:27 <int-e> does APic say more than a thousand words?
21:21:22 <int-e> (And while I'm making up bad puns, it could also be an APic failure.)
21:21:37 <myname> grep you log for lines said by "words" and look if those from apic are at least 1000 times as much
21:24:01 <APic> It does not matter.
21:24:15 <APic> Also: It does not make Sense. ;)
21:24:26 <APic> Need to watch South-Park now.
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21:30:35 <augur> always with the quotes
21:32:30 <HackEgo> 104) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there.
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23:11:31 <Zarutian> stagnating wages only makes sense where the 'legal tender' currency is inflated over time, no?
23:12:18 <Zarutian> I have been looking into how guilds and such in Europe made their payment and benefits rules
23:13:59 <Zarutian> those evolved be basically by tradition and how much their work was worth relative to other services or products
23:14:57 <Zarutian> in those days a coin was usually just the yardstick
23:16:19 <Zarutian> and you want your yardline to be of sturdy string and not made of streatchable rubber
23:19:44 <\oren\> I have made it a rule in life to greet anyone whom I know has a phd with "what's up doc"
23:20:47 <HackEgo> 626) <monqy> i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one"
23:21:06 <HackEgo> 803) <Phantom_Hoover> unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway
23:21:13 <HackEgo> 507) <ais523> this strikes me as probably better than a singularity, because you can't trust a random AI, but you can probably trust olsner
23:21:22 <HackEgo> 180) <zzo38> Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly)
23:21:28 <HackEgo> 1083) <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range
23:22:32 <shachaf> i,i "This is my son, he's a doctor but not the kind that helps people"
23:33:48 <izalove> italian prime minister just resigned
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00:02:28 <Zarutian> shachaf: I know of an doctor that orignally didnt help people then his equation regarding volumetric processing were used to improve resolution of MRI
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00:49:01 <boily> fungot: you need massages.
00:49:01 <fungot> boily: and xp manuals?! :)
00:49:15 <boily> fungot: uuuuugh! XP is so EOL. get with the times!
00:49:16 <fungot> boily: window is up in the fnord. this information can be taken, though.
00:49:28 <boily> fungot: I take note of the windowed fnord.
00:49:29 <fungot> boily: but its o(n) property... bet that's not cheap)
00:49:40 <boily> fungot: I can manage O(n) just fine, no worries.
00:49:41 <fungot> boily: are you punctual all the time as an integer in the large, as forcer suggested, me. :)
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00:51:29 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> (because doing so would prove that no algorithm for solving an NP-complete problem can provably run in polynomial time, and it's hard to see how an algorithm could run in polynomial time but unprovably so) <-- no, you only need it to be impossible to prove any algorithm _correct_, which is much more plausible.
00:52:47 <shachaf> @tell oerjan so how 'bout that norwegian rice porridge? can it be made without dairy? twh
00:52:49 <oerjan> @tell ais523 in fact P ? NP is _not_ known to be in the classes of statements that can obviously not be proved undecidable in this way.
00:53:11 <lambdabot> shachaf said 23s ago: so how 'bout that norwegian rice porridge? can it be made without dairy? twh
00:53:26 <shachaf> i wanted you to use @messages-food tdh
00:53:43 <oerjan> shachaf: not that i know of, but someone probably has found a way
00:54:08 <HackEgo> @messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-bold / @messages-good @messages-gold
00:55:00 <HackEgo> but//But is a Trintercal operator.
00:56:47 <HackEgo> 7462:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn But is a trintercal operator. \ 7465:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn But is a Trintercal operator.
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01:00:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
01:00:43 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
01:01:03 <oerjan> `learn But is an hth derivative.
01:01:15 <HackEgo> Relearned 'but': But is an hth derivative.
01:02:10 <boily> but derivates from hth?
01:02:37 <oerjan> boily: the `? twh entry states so
01:02:56 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
01:02:59 <oerjan> probably through some advanced phonological process.
01:03:26 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:03:45 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s#ss,#& cumin,#
01:03:50 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:04:10 <shachaf> i've been using cumin seeds lately
01:04:31 <oerjan> shachaf: there's a norwegian concept of vassgraut, which i think is porridge without dairy. i'm not sure it's compatible with rice, though.
01:05:01 <shachaf> oerjan: also is norwegian rice porridge a rip-off of riisipuuro twh
01:06:41 <olsner> riisipuuro is probably just rice porridge
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01:08:14 <oerjan> shachaf: it's obviously stolen, given rice doesn't really grow in norway. from whom i don't know.
01:08:29 <lambdabot> *** "cumin" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:08:30 <lambdabot> n 1: dwarf Mediterranean annual long cultivated for its aromatic
01:08:30 <lambdabot> seeds [syn: {cumin}, {Cuminum cyminum}]
01:08:30 <lambdabot> 2: aromatic seeds of the cumin herb of the carrot family [syn:
01:09:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i have trouble thinking of a wisdom for cumin which doesn't involve sex, so you'll have to make it yourself hth
01:09:47 <shachaf> oerjan: hm, i have trouble thinking of one that does
01:10:36 <shachaf> why doesn't Taneb document his ownventions?
01:12:31 <hppavilion[1]> But it appears it doesn't support non-lettery things; there's no section to define exempli gratia mathematical operators
01:13:34 <boily> `learn Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex.
01:13:42 <HackEgo> Learned 'cumin': Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex.
01:13:43 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a little too close to a certain dysphemism.
01:14:06 <shachaf> I don't know why you say "exempli gratia" like that.
01:14:15 <shachaf> It's completely gratiatous.
01:14:51 <shachaf> boily: no good, a discussion of whether something involves sex itself involves sex
01:15:06 <shachaf> oerjan: the hebrew name is camun hth
01:15:43 <oerjan> don't seeds generally involve sex, anyway
01:16:27 <boily> maybe we can define cumin by the morphisms that target it, and not mention it itself?
01:23:19 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's gratuitous Latin because I love the Lat
01:24:21 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it also often has a 'g'. i fail to see the relevance.
01:25:21 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:25:39 <hppavilion[1]> QUESTION! What happens when somebody repurposes a tanebvention for sex?
01:26:06 <oerjan> we already had that discussion with the universe.
01:26:36 <hppavilion[1]> submarine jousting; the universe; special relativity; metar; sand; dragons; persistence; the BBC (obviously); progress; sanity.
01:28:29 <boily> metars are tanebbed?
01:28:42 <HackEgo> metar is a service Taneb invented that allows nerds to talk about the weather.
01:29:02 <HackEgo> 9021:2016-09-08 <shachäf> slwd metar//s#that#Taneb invented &# \ 6536:2016-01-11 <oerjän> learn metar is a service that allows nerds to talk about the weather.
01:31:03 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep 46
01:31:14 <HackEgo> 9334:2016-10-18 <oerjän> slwd tanebvention//s/BBC/BBC, _46bit/
01:31:34 <HackEgo> _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
01:32:19 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents any
01:32:39 <oerjan> `` grwp -l 'xford comma'
01:32:55 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep comma
01:33:03 <HackEgo> 9222:2016-10-10 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#and#the Oxford comma, and#
01:38:21 <oerjan> `le/rn grace period//The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
01:38:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'grace period': /The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
01:38:39 <shachaf> oerjan: see, it should just produce an error in this case
01:38:49 <oerjan> `slwd grace period//s,/,,
01:38:55 <HackEgo> grace period//The grace period was invented by Taneb to give him more time to invent the Oxford comma.
01:44:10 <HackEgo> sep="/" \ [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[/ ].&.')"
01:45:41 <shachaf> oerjan: just check [[ $sep == "/" && $value == /* ]] or something and exit twh
01:45:55 <shachaf> you appear not to be very good at this secrecy thing hth
01:46:14 <shachaf> oerjan: What do you think of deprecating le/rn and always having a // separator?
01:49:33 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//1,2csep="//"
01:49:38 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[/ ].&.')"
01:52:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//$s,[/] , ,
01:52:06 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.')"
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01:58:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//s,exit 1,{ echo "usage: $0 key//wisdom"; exit 1; },
01:58:05 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo "usage: $0 key//wisdom"; exit 1; } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.')"
01:58:32 <HackEgo> usage: /hackenv/le/rn key//wisdom
01:59:23 <oerjan> i was copying from bin/sled
01:59:43 <oerjan> and also the $0 is not working :(
02:00:55 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
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02:04:29 <oerjan> apparently le/rn_append has never worked with the double slash afaict
02:04:45 <oerjan> and isn't written in such a way that it's easy to fix
02:05:00 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ [[ "$1" = */* ]] || exit \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "$topic" ] && exit 1 \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
02:12:17 <boily> fungot: do you ever update your sources?
02:13:51 <oerjan> `` ( head -4 bin/slashlearn | sed 's/key/topic/;s/value/stuff/'; tail -5 le/rn_append ) > le/rn_app; mv le/rn_app{,end}
02:14:26 <HackEgo> sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ topic="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ stuff="${1#*$sep}" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
02:14:38 <shachaf> oerjan: how about $mk{x,} that expands escape sequences
02:14:41 <shachaf> or does that already exist?
02:14:47 <HackEgo> bin/mk \ bin/mkcmd \ bin/mkpasswd \ bin/mkx
02:14:54 <HackEgo> chmod +x "$1" && echo "$1"
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02:15:14 <HackEgo> 7773:2016-05-05 <Moon__̈-> ` mv mkcmd bin/mkcmd \ 7774:2016-05-05 <oerjän> mkx bin/mkcmd//chmod +x "$1" && echo "$1"
02:16:40 <HackEgo> echo $(base64 /dev/urandom | head -c 12)
02:16:48 <oerjan> `sled le/rn_append//5d
02:16:50 <HackEgo> 6344:2015-11-28 <tsweẗt> echo \'echo $(base64 /dev/urandom | head -c 12)\' > bin/mkpasswd \ 6345:2015-11-28 <tsweẗt> chmod +x bin/mkpasswd
02:16:52 <HackEgo> le/rn_append//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1 \ topic="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ stuff="${1#*$sep}" \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
02:17:08 <oerjan> `le/rn_append testing//ho!
02:17:11 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/le/rn_append: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/le/rn_append: cannot execute: Permission denied
02:17:23 <oerjan> `` chmod +x le/rn_append
02:17:25 <oerjan> `le/rn_append testing//ho!
02:17:31 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/testing: No such file or directory. \ Learned 'testing': ho!
02:17:42 <oerjan> `learn Testing should always be around.
02:17:47 <HackEgo> Relearned 'testing': Testing should always be around.
02:17:49 <oerjan> `le/rn_append testing//ho!
02:17:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'testing': Testing should always be around. ho!
02:18:26 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic="$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
02:19:13 <shachaf> can you imagine if all shaventions were deleted?
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02:22:20 <oerjan> `` perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/testing" || echo "Whoops"
02:22:22 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/testing: No such file or directory.
02:22:48 <oerjan> `` perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/testing" && echo "Whoops"
02:22:50 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/testing: No such file or directory. \ Whoops
02:29:47 <oerjan> `learn Testing is mandatory.
02:29:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'testing': Testing is mandatory.
02:30:23 <oerjan> <shachaf> ais523: Aha, I got a reference: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1907.pdf <-- i found no reference to you, tdnh
02:30:38 <shachaf> A reference for the previous conversation.
02:31:05 <shachaf> but you can find references to me at https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=shachaf+ben-kiki hth
02:31:24 <shachaf> just look at all those references
02:31:30 <shachaf> thanked in a phd thesis and a paper!
02:32:30 <shachaf> oh man, that paper was published in jfp
02:33:37 <oerjan> i take it you're more of a gentleman than a scholar.
02:34:00 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you recommend becoming a scholar?
02:34:13 <oerjan> not unless you want to.
02:34:16 <shachaf> Can I publish papers outside of academia?
02:34:29 <shachaf> If I have a good idea, should I bring it up in IRC, or write a paper about it?
02:34:33 <oerjan> i suppose it's _possible_.
02:34:36 <shachaf> Do I ever have good ideas?
02:34:41 <shachaf> I think I must've had a few.
02:34:58 <oerjan> why are you asking me, i never got a paper published outside of academia.
02:35:08 <shachaf> Well, isn't it a similar process either way?
02:35:22 <shachaf> You write it and submit it to a journal and then you're done, right?
02:35:52 <oerjan> then there's proofreading.
02:36:08 <shachaf> Should I go be in academia?
02:36:27 <oerjan> i'm not the right person to ask.
02:38:54 <oerjan> i don't know that either.
02:39:50 <shachaf> Why did you scrap academia?
02:40:13 <oerjan> `learn_append shachaf//He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:40:15 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/shachaf//he: Not a directory. \ /hackenv/bin/learn_append: line 5: wisdom/shachaf//he: Not a directory \ Learned 'shachaf//he': cat: wisdom/shachaf//he: Not a directory
02:40:25 <oerjan> `learn_append shachaf He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:40:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'shachaf': Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
02:41:18 <shachaf> Is now a good time to stop asking questions?
02:41:59 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:42:35 <shachaf> oerjan: is this the dual of passover or something twh
02:42:59 <oerjan> i am not sufficiently familiar with passover to tell.
02:43:37 <shachaf> there's a thing with four children
02:43:51 <shachaf> the last one doesn't know how to ask questions
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04:14:44 <zzo38> Maybe you can write it both on the IRC and on the paper.
04:17:49 <shachaf> zzo38: Have you published any papers?
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04:30:15 <zzo38> How common is it to ignore the return value of String.prototype.replace() in JavaScript?
04:34:08 <zzo38> See if you can think of why.
04:35:30 <shachaf> You pass in a function that has a side effect?
04:37:59 <zzo38> For example you can see the definition of parseCatalog in here http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/freeuhs.ui/raw/catalog.js?name=2a60e705e083c10b19e8ee4bd24eba8904b93e23
04:39:26 <shachaf> Why not use .match() instead in this case?
04:41:48 <zzo38> But .match() does not return captured groups when the g flag is specified
04:42:20 <zzo38> When not using a global match, it does generally make more sense to use RegExp.prototype.exec instead
04:45:01 <shachaf> You can use .exec in this case too.
04:45:15 <shachaf> You call .exec() multiple times and it gives you the next match each time.
04:46:21 <shachaf> I didn't know this until now, but now I know.
04:46:40 <zzo38> Yes it does, although I don't really like the way .exec() works with the g flag, since you have to call it multiple times and it has to keep track of where in the input to look in.
04:47:12 <shachaf> Yes, I didn't know RegExp objects had state like that.
04:47:27 <shachaf> But .replace() isn't really ideal either.
04:48:19 <zzo38> I know it isn't really ideal either
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05:23:28 <oerjan> the lower left panel of today's girl genius seriously disturbs my brain's ability to fit the weasel queen arc into the continuity...
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05:25:36 <oerjan> now it _has_ to have happened in the main story, but i cannot see when they'd have had time...
05:28:52 <oerjan> oh well it _is_ apocryphal.
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05:37:15 <HackEgo> comics:Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. The content of this list is not to be questioned. \ Binary file reflection matches
05:37:38 <HackEgo> 7134:2016-03-06 <int-̈e> le/rn comics/Recommended comics include genius stick, stuck girl, and home of the order. \ 7135:2016-03-06 <boil̈y> le/rn comics/Recommended comics include Genius Stick, Stuck Girl, and Home of the Order. \ 7381:2016-04-14 <boil̈y> ` echo -n \' The content of this list is not to be questioned.\' >>wisdom/comics \ 7382:20
05:38:16 <HackEgo> 2/2:dom/comics \ 7382:2016-04-14 <oerjän> revert \ 7383:2016-04-14 <oerjän> le/rn_append comics/The content of this list is not to be questioned.
05:39:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50458&oldid=50454 * TehFlaminTaco * (+188)
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05:56:10 <oerjan> `slwd comics//s:G[^,]*:Yet another Genius Gamer:;s:and ::;s:[.]:, and Fantasy Stick Comic.:
05:56:13 <HackEgo> comics//Recommended comics include Yet another Genius Gamer, Stuck Girl, Home of the Order, and Fantasy Stick Comic. The content of this list is not to be questioned.
05:58:03 <oerjan> `slwd comics//s, a, A,
05:58:08 <HackEgo> comics//Recommended comics include Yet Another Genius Gamer, Stuck Girl, Home of the Order, and Fantasy Stick Comic. The content of this list is not to be questioned.
05:58:31 <zzo38> You are wrong; everything is to be questioned, especially questions?
06:06:53 <shachaf> zzo38: pooches are not to be questioned hth
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09:27:08 <b_jonas> ninja date => http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/12/just-the-two-of-us.html
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12:15:52 <HackEgo> ybden daintily hides in her den, fostering dark machinations on warfare cutlery.
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12:54:33 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
12:55:20 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
12:55:29 <HackEgo> shikhin is a Malevolent God, who will promise you stuff tomorrow.
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14:50:15 <PinealGlandOptic> hi everyone! does anybody can point me to downloads of source code of Unix v8, v9? specifically i'm looking for source code of that util: http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/1/struct
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16:26:58 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: Sidney and Brisbane don't have train stations, so bahn.de suggests "Widney Manor" and "Brißbachtal, Brodenbach" instead as closest matches, and gives a list of other stations you might have thought of
16:28:34 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: and Brißbachtal, Brodenbach is unlikely what you thought of, because it doesn't have a train line, so bahn.de gives only train+bus combinations
16:47:56 <b_jonas> [for the logs] “What is the cost of a train ticket from Sidney to Brisbane” The answer is about 28.8 quadrillion kilometer US dollars squared. Input interpretation. {The Train (movie) production budget} {The Train (movie) total US box office receipts} {distance from Sidney, New South Wales to Brisbane, Queensland} -- Wolfram Alpha
16:49:04 <b_jonas> I wonder if we could addquote that or something
16:59:31 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
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18:55:00 <zzo38> String.prototype.toArray=function(){return Array.of.apply(Array,Object(this));};
18:59:23 <zzo38> Actually String.prototype.split("") works better anyways
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19:36:26 <HackEgo> 213) <olsner> actually, I think vorpal is the "retarded team member" to the left
19:36:53 <HackEgo> elrond//Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves.
19:37:00 <HackEgo> mothology//Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths.
19:42:47 -!- LKoen has joined.
20:06:43 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:10:32 <HackEgo> mosquito//Mosquitos are tiny vampires, sucking out your soul.
20:11:02 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
20:11:31 <HackEgo> boxmodel//boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be.
20:11:39 <HackEgo> fiora//Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi.
20:11:53 <HackEgo> cloud//The cloud is a server Blackhat guy runs, connected to the internet through a cable modem. There's a lot of caching. Cloud is also the shape of clouds.
20:12:05 <HackEgo> ttf//TTF is the true typography format. All others are heretical.
20:12:11 <HackEgo> _46bit//_46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
20:12:16 <HackEgo> the//the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
20:12:37 <HackEgo> palate//Palate is usually a metaphor for a person's preferences about food or drink.
20:14:25 <HackEgo> olist 1060: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:14:44 <moony> did someone make hackego ignore my PMs >_<
20:15:04 <moony> im simply running `wisdom over and over again to see what shows up.
20:16:28 <\oren\> I finally added 𝕲𝕶𝕷𝕻𝕼𝖁𝖂𝖃𝖄𝖅
20:17:20 <\oren\> the uncial letters that were missing before
20:17:45 <\oren\> er, uncial decorative capitals anyway
20:21:30 -!- otherbot has joined.
20:21:32 <\oren\> I also debugged the line height problem that was happening on macs
20:22:19 <HackEgo> 995) <itidus21> :D :D oh man.. i wonder if they ever made chess variants based off of animes
20:23:03 <wob_jonas> how did you do that? do you have an apple?
20:24:07 <\oren\> wob_jonas: I borrowed my dad's
20:25:55 <\oren\> The ttf my program generates is 𝕒𝕝𝕞𝕠𝕤𝕥 acceptible to windows, but I still have to run it through fontforge to generate a valid cmap format 4...
20:26:32 <HackEgo> TTF is the true typography format. All others are heretical.
20:26:50 <\oren\> but since fontforge isn't doing the actual bdf->ttf conversion, the turnaround time has been reduced from hours to a few minutes
20:26:54 <wob_jonas> \oren\: and it's still vector only?
20:27:05 <zzo38> Then, HTF means Heretical Typography Format.
20:27:07 <shachaf> Didn't someone here make a good pun about ttf?
20:27:17 <HackEgo> 1/3:font:#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz \ lifthrasiir's font:lifthrasiir's font is https://github.co
20:27:21 <HackEgo> 2/3:m/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png \ oren's font:\oren\'s font neoletters is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm \ Binary file reflection matches \ unicide:Unicide is when people can't read your suicide note because they lack the proper font. \ waltext2:WalText2 is WalrusOS's vector font rend
20:27:25 <HackEgo> 3/3:erer. See "WalText2i" for the improved version.
20:27:31 <zzo38> It would be the better format than TTF maybe
20:27:34 <HackEgo> 1/2:30) <lacota> I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary \ 1117) <zzo38> I do sometimes work on Linux computer. I think it is set to en.UTF-8 by default although on my account I have changed it to the C locale, disabled Unicode translation, and loaded a CP437 font. <zzo38> This improves the operation of the
20:27:39 <HackEgo> 2/2: system. \ 1248) <oren> I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea
20:28:51 <\oren\> wob_jonas: sort of. I have a vector ttf version, and a bitmap bdf version available
20:29:06 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Mon Dec 5 20:29:06 2016
20:30:41 <shachaf> oops, "Bay Area’s Finnish Independence Day Celebration on the first Sunday of December"
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20:49:47 <\oren\> how do I diff two diffs
20:50:44 <wob_jonas> \oren\: right, but not bitmap (or graymap) ttf or otf yet
20:50:58 <zzo38> I can think of this kind of Magic: the Gathering cards: Exile ~ and return all other spells to their owner's hand. ;; Split second
20:51:10 <\oren\> er, how do I put this... I have a diff A->B and a diff A->C and I want a diff B->C
20:55:32 <wob_jonas> zzo38: there's one similar spell: Unsubstantiate
21:08:49 <\oren\> `le/rn OTF/OTF is the Orthodox Typography Format, formed after the Schism of 1991.
21:13:28 <shachaf> Can you apply the two diffs and then diff?
21:13:39 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
21:13:40 <shachaf> Or do you not have a copy of A?
21:14:08 <\oren\> I have B and I have A, I accidentally C
21:14:39 <shachaf> If you have A and you have a diff A->C, then you have C.
21:15:31 <\oren\> but shouldn't it be possible to do diff algebra independently?
21:16:12 <\oren\> somewhat, since I alreadys solved the original probem another way
21:16:36 <shachaf> darcs had some patch algebra thing that I never read about.
21:16:42 <shachaf> Why are you even doing all this?
21:17:10 <\oren\> and svn doesn't have advanced commands
21:17:36 <shachaf> Maybe you should use git-svn.
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21:18:38 <shachaf> git would make your A,B,C problem very easy.
21:18:49 <\oren\> git has too much complexity in other parts
21:22:30 <shachaf> All a git repository is is a collection of (content-addressed) objects and some tools for managing them.
21:23:19 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the complexity is mostly in the tools
21:23:37 <shachaf> There isn't that much of it, though.
21:23:45 <shachaf> It's certainly less than whatever \oren\ is doing right now.
21:24:07 <wob_jonas> it's more ugliness than complexity
21:25:20 <\oren\> git has far more concepts involved than svn
21:25:21 <wob_jonas> I'm currently wondering if I should try to get past my prejudices and look at some of the other version control systems; or figure out how to fix subversion so it's more usable; or just wait for ais523's vaporware.
21:25:29 <fizzie> The hydraulic press guy has a special live crushing going on on Finnish TV, as part of the independence celebrations.
21:25:36 <fizzie> 99 isn't a 100, though.
21:25:46 <fizzie> I'm a bit bummed Norway decided not to give us that mountain.
21:26:35 <wob_jonas> fizzie: "live crushing"? does that mean he crushes live objects?
21:26:49 <wob_jonas> sorry, that doesn't work in English. they say "alive" or "living"
21:26:53 <\oren\> https://steveko.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/subversion-arrows1.png
21:27:03 <\oren\> ^ this is the workflow for SVN
21:27:11 <fizzie> They haven't said what he'll crush, but I doubt it'll be anything alive.
21:27:16 <\oren\> https://steveko.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/git-arrows31.png
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21:27:21 <olsner> wob_jonas: the hydralic press channel's english is less than perfect though
21:27:24 <\oren\> ^ this is the workflow for git
21:27:42 <shachaf> \oren\: What? Git has nothing to do with GitHub.
21:27:46 <fizzie> That's definitely not "the workflow" for git. It might be a one.
21:27:55 <shachaf> But that looks like one person's workflow for a GitHub thing.
21:28:22 <wob_jonas> Yes, that's certainly not my git workflow.
21:28:28 <\oren\> right, but look at the part that doesn't involve github even
21:29:02 <shachaf> There are a bunch of redundant arrows for some reason.
21:29:03 <\oren\> not as simple as svn though
21:29:23 <shachaf> I think git is simpler than svn.
21:29:31 <wob_jonas> My git workflow at work involves two git worktrees so that I can merge stuff without touching the mtimes of files that aren't changed so that the stupid slow to build project doesn't have to rebuild everything because it thinks source files have changed.
21:29:39 <\oren\> the point is, there should be a way to use git *without* having a local repository
21:30:05 <\oren\> with just the remote one and your working directory
21:30:13 <olsner> I think you can use git archive and tar to do that
21:31:21 <olsner> well, that's only read-only, but maybe you shouldn't have write access when you do that :P
21:33:15 <wob_jonas> \oren\: do you really want no local repository, or just a sparse local repository that doesn't have the stuff you don't need?
21:34:12 <fizzie> Even a svn working copy has that local pristine copy, right?
21:34:25 <\oren\> fizzie: yes, but it's transparent to the user
21:34:57 <\oren\> git commit should commit all the way to central repository, without any extra steps
21:35:09 <fizzie> wob_jonas: My git workflow at work involves two git worktrees mostly because if I check out a different branch in the one Android Studio has a project open from, it starts running like crazy trying to reindex and recompile everything. I'd really like it if Android Studio (/IntelliJ) had a "pause" button I could use to tell it to pay no attention to the filesystem for a moment.
21:35:19 <wob_jonas> \oren\: it isn't transparent unless you have network connection and storage space way bigger than the remote repository
21:36:07 <wob_jonas> \oren\: not according to me. I want to have local branches.
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21:36:55 <wob_jonas> I can't (easily) have those in svn
21:36:58 <fizzie> I think by definition that means you have something to hide.
21:37:30 <fizzie> In related news, UK passed the Snoopers' Charter the other week.
21:37:40 <shachaf> svn and git are similarly transparent to the user as far as I can tell.
21:37:41 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, or at least I have something that I'm not yet sure I want to show
21:37:59 <\oren\> shachaf: what is the git command equivalent to svn ci
21:38:19 <wob_jonas> I dislike both svn and git, for mostly different reasons
21:38:38 <wob_jonas> and since they have different problems, svn is better for some uses, and git is better for some other uses
21:39:02 <wob_jonas> so I'd like a perfect version control system, which that vaporware thing might be
21:39:54 <wob_jonas> maybe I should just cryogenically suspend myself until that perfect vcs is done, TAOCP is finished, and there's peace in the Middle East
21:40:10 <\oren\> svn ci does the following: git add {all your changed files}, git commit, git push in one command
21:40:28 <wob_jonas> (I'm not sure which ones of those will be ready earlier.)
21:40:42 <wob_jonas> \oren\: do you mean git commit -a and git push in one command?
21:40:47 <wob_jonas> \oren\: because it totally doesn't do that
21:41:43 <wob_jonas> \oren\: svn ci succeeds in the commit even if your working copy isn't up to date, as long as all the files or directories you modify (even meta-data wise) are up to date in your working cpoy
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21:42:09 <\oren\> so it does even more? wow.
21:42:16 <wob_jonas> git always updates the whole root directory
21:42:45 <wob_jonas> whereas in svn you can commit even if you don't have read access to some parts of the tree on the remote (that's a rare example, but it shows the principle)
21:45:08 <wob_jonas> You rarely want to set up an svn server where people don't have read access to parts of the remote, but the important part is that a client can operate on just part of the tree without knowing much about the rest.
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21:47:45 <int-e> . o O ( You rarely want to set up an svn server )
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21:49:21 <wob_jonas> int-e: obviously, you just leave such things to sysadmins, that's what they're paid for. but you rarely even want to ask them to set up an svn server that way.
21:52:43 <int-e> I like the anarchy of git and mercurial.
21:53:10 <int-e> also svn sucks when one is offline
21:53:35 <wob_jonas> I like premature optimization, so I like the performance of svn
21:54:06 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, that's the main drawback. and I think it might be possible (but not easy) to build a distributed vcs layer over svn
21:54:07 <int-e> hmm, two n. annarchy.
21:54:18 <int-e> git-svn exists, but... eh...
21:54:30 <wob_jonas> no, git-svn doesn't really do that
21:54:47 <int-e> it alleviates the offline problem.
21:54:59 <wob_jonas> git-svn brings the worst of both worlds, people just advertise it because they claim it's faster than some old version of svn they tested against
21:55:19 <wob_jonas> faster for some urealistic task they benchmarked or something
21:55:36 <wob_jonas> anyway, it's the worst of both worlds
22:03:12 <shachaf> \oren\: Sorry, I had an emergency meeting.
22:03:22 <olsner> there's also svk for making a shitty dvcs out of svn
22:03:32 <shachaf> \oren\: Anyway I don't want to git commit and git push in one command. What if I mess up a commit?
22:04:01 <shachaf> But if you want to do it, you can always set up an alias for running those two commands together, I guess?
22:04:24 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Doesn't Facebook run svn on the server side and hg on the client side?
22:04:32 <shachaf> I heard that that's what they do.
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> shachaf: that's why you commit to a private branch. the difference is, I also want that branch to be local-only sometimes.
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> you can commit to a private branch in git or svn alike.
22:04:34 <wob_jonas> and later merge back int othe main branch.
22:05:17 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no idea what facebook does
22:06:42 <shachaf> \oren\: For what it's worth there are a lot of things I like about git but I don't like GitHub pull requests.
22:07:59 <wob_jonas> I don't use github and don't particularly care about it.
22:08:09 <wob_jonas> Technically that's a lie, I've submitted bug reports in the github tracker a few times, plus looked at other people's projects on github.
22:21:42 <shachaf> \oren\: If you're managing a bunch of different versions of a collection of files, git is certainly going to be better than what you were doing with diffs.
22:21:51 <wob_jonas> or submited? I never know how this English spelling thing works
22:22:22 <zzo38> One version control system is fossil it is what I use, it work better than git and mercury and subversions and so on.
22:23:35 <wob_jonas> zzo38: but isn't fossil like git or worse when it comes to supporting clones sparse (containing only part of the directory tree or history)?
22:27:15 <zzo38> wob_jonas: I haven't tried cloning anything so I don't know, although maybe this can be fixed. I know that git has to clone everything; I asked someone once if I could clone only part of it and I couldn't.
22:27:27 <zzo38> shachaf: O, I don't know that.
22:29:36 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think git in underlying architecture wouldn't have to clone everything, it's just that the interfaces don't support that
22:30:00 <wob_jonas> svn and darcs have mostly ok support for sparse stuff
22:32:24 <zzo38> My computer does not mention Mercury in retrograde
22:32:43 <shachaf> zzo38: It was a joke because you said "mercury" instead of "mercurial".
22:32:55 <shachaf> http://www.ismercuryinretrograde.com/
22:34:10 <zzo38> I get a positive longitudinal speed, so it is not retrograde. It says Uranus is retrograde
22:35:16 <zzo38> (Note I do not currently have JPL ephemerides installed, meaning they may be slightly inaccurate.)
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22:36:27 <zzo38> Why did they even take a domain name just to make a webpage just for such purpose? There would be better ways to specify all of the data instead of just one.
22:36:55 <int-e> wob_jonas: personally I believe you value sparse clones a tad too much
22:37:10 <wob_jonas> zzo38: domain names are cheap. it's not like you need a separate server for each one.
22:37:11 <int-e> yes, svn is pretty much built around that ability
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22:37:25 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/Google/narrowhg <- we value sparse ("narrow", in this case) clones too.
22:37:25 <int-e> but you don't have to use vcss as if they were svn
22:37:41 <zzo38> It is true, you do not need a separate server for each one. Still I think that isn't very good
22:38:04 <wob_jonas> int-e: of course not. I'm not using them like that. instead, I store the large data that I want to sparse clone in svn repos, and the other data that is changed or merged frequently in git repos.
22:38:23 <wob_jonas> int-e: I said already that I'm not happy with either git or svn, so I'm using both of them, each for their relative strengths
22:38:23 <shachaf> fizzie: Should I use hg instead of git because Facebook and Google are behind it now?
22:38:42 <fizzie> shachaf: I keep asking myself that as well.
22:38:48 <zzo38> I don't see how if Facebook and Google are behind it is really relevant though
22:39:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Facebook is apparently implementing a scalable hg backend server that they're going to release.
22:39:11 <wob_jonas> maybe they have applications where hg is good?
22:39:21 <fizzie> fungot: Which version control system would you want your source code to be stored in?
22:39:22 <fungot> fizzie: don't know what that is." " me too!"
22:39:36 <shachaf> fizzie: I wonder whether there's a citc-style FUSE filesystem for one of these things?
22:39:36 <wob_jonas> maybe I have such applications too, I just don't know because I'm not familiar with mercurial or darcs
22:39:37 <pikhq> I don't foresee Facebook and Google's support really overriding the network effects of git right now.
22:39:55 <shachaf> pikhq: Well, hg is holding its own even without the support of those companies.
22:39:56 <pikhq> Could possibly lead to it, mind, but that alone won't do it.
22:40:01 <wob_jonas> that's why I said I was wondering if I should try to suppress my prejudices (man, that's impossible to type) and try to learn more about those two
22:40:23 <shachaf> fizzie: In theory, most of a narrow clone could be implemented "automatically" if you just did lazy loading of objects. More or less.
22:41:19 <wob_jonas> shachaf: no, that's contradictory with the aim of being able to work without net access
22:41:20 <shachaf> fizzie: (Also the existence of citc is public so I can talk about it here.)
22:41:39 <wob_jonas> shachaf: if I want to work without net access, that means I have to have a copy of all the data I may want to access
22:41:45 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Sure, if that's one of your goals.
22:41:48 <wob_jonas> so if I want sparse, I must tell in advance explicitly what I data don't want to have
22:42:11 <shachaf> But most of the hard implementation work is still going to be covered, I think.
22:43:01 <shachaf> I think there aren't many cases where I really care about both narrow clones and working offline.
22:43:20 <\oren\> has google finished putting taxi drivers out of work yet?
22:43:48 <wob_jonas> shachaf: even without that there's a problem
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22:44:41 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the vcs can't know what files I need in the working tree to build some target or grep for something whose location I don't know. so if I want to do such things, it would have to download all files in the current revision.
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23:09:57 <HackEgo> oklopol//oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid."
23:10:31 <shachaf> oklopol should start a HackEgo weblog
23:11:06 <shachaf> all entries must fit into a line of irc
23:12:51 <boily> oklopol disappeared a long time ago. he's like a Second Age character.
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23:21:43 <boily> fungot: do you remember oklopol?
23:21:44 <fungot> boily: he just announced on cls once... these specs remind me a litto of hilfinger actaully
23:21:59 <boily> fungot: what's cls?
23:22:00 <fungot> boily: i only hire people with the biggest problems of an fnord, in case it didn't go bust because of lisp.
23:22:13 <boily> fungot: oh, a fnord support group.
23:22:13 <fungot> boily: i meant the english version :) unless you're looking at
23:22:30 <boily> fungot: nah, the French version usually has less content.
23:22:38 <boily> fungot: yes you do, and stop being sentient.
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23:29:45 <shachaf> fizzie: petition to reduce the maximum number of replies sent to one person from 5 to 3 twh
23:32:35 <Jafet> version control filesystem? clearcase is allegedly both, though few have survived to recount its appearance
23:33:43 <fizzie> shachaf: I think it's already 4.
23:35:15 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, that last one was you.
23:35:23 <shachaf> I can't really distinguish between fizzie and fungot.
23:35:23 <fungot> shachaf: somebody set bfm up the bomb.
23:35:34 <shachaf> fizzie: that makes no sense tdnh
23:35:52 <shachaf> Hmm, actually it does make sense.
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23:38:41 <fizzie> fungot isn't really optimized for sense.
23:38:41 <fungot> fizzie: and using fnord ram...
23:39:31 <fungot> Perenelle: or a shell of some wider bottle."
23:39:34 <boily> Perenello. fungot is fungot.
23:39:34 <fungot> boily: i always thought it is fnord
23:39:54 <boily> hellochaf. don't you dare reduce fungot.
23:39:54 <fungot> boily: ( even matz admits that it's a more obfuscated syntax. it's something like /usr/ share/ games/ fnord
23:40:09 <shachaf> fungot is using fnord ram?
23:40:09 <fungot> shachaf: what all other stuff being pulled out of that
23:40:26 <shachaf> fungot isn't a mere Markov chain
23:40:26 <fungot> shachaf: if you're queen, you'd better not ignore it, but we do pass them to other areas or at least
23:40:27 <fizzie> shachaf: There's a Finnish proverb that says something like "you cannot take with a ladle what has been given with a spoon".
23:40:43 <Perenelle> Well he reads better than most Markov bots
23:41:12 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
23:41:23 <HackEgo> Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:41:39 <boily> `slwd shacha//s/^/Queen /
23:41:41 <boily> `slwd shachaf//s/^/Queen /
23:41:46 <HackEgo> shachaf//Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:42:49 <Perenelle> I cannot believe we have 'functional' languages that look like someone head banged a keyboard
23:43:11 <fizzie> Think "fungus", not "functional".
23:44:34 <fizzie> Oh, allegedly it's from "fungible" instead.
23:44:46 <boily> Perenelle: what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
23:45:10 <Perenelle> That's a question I've seen before
23:45:28 <boily> you were asked the The Question?
23:45:44 <boily> you sound like somebody else.
23:46:01 <Perenelle> You make me sound like a stranger boily
23:46:28 <Perenelle> Anyways do you seek truth from that question or some random answer not entirely truth
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23:49:05 <fizzie> I believe it's for a file somewhere.
23:49:33 <Perenelle> The funge language was made by who
23:49:48 <Perenelle> And who created fungot or who had the idea first
23:49:48 <fungot> Perenelle: i was technically taught the " proper" sense has to be implemented. ( note: it can be
23:49:59 <fizzie> By cpressey; It's all at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge
23:50:02 <olsner> I think fungot created befunge and then itself
23:50:03 <fungot> olsner: people who don't like you, i just wrote my first macro
23:50:36 <fizzie> Well, not all of it. In fact, I think our Befunge article could do with some improvement, both in scope and in style.
23:52:27 <boily> Perenelle: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! you are him!
23:52:53 <boily> should I update the File to reflect your new nick, or do you plan do use your old self?
23:53:30 <boily> (you weigh less than me, you fiend :P )
23:54:11 <boily> around 165, I think? haven't checked in a long time and it didn't really change.
23:54:45 <boily> well, time to make a difference by employing the Power of the Poutine.
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23:55:21 <fizzie> shachaf: I see you're one of those right-thinking people who disagree with kilogram being the SI base unit of mass.
23:56:35 <shachaf> Well, you don't want to go too far in the other direction either.
23:57:03 <shachaf> People can become quite cruel in that case, as demonstrated in the Milligram experiment.
23:57:26 <shachaf> fizzie: I don't think I believe in base units.
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23:59:52 <Perenelle> Who plays magic the gathering / I know about some of you.
00:03:36 <Perenelle> Been awhile since I came and talked extensively in esoteric
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00:18:49 <izalove> someone gave me a laptop with windows vista
00:19:04 <izalove> every time i start it, i get a blue screen within a minute
00:19:15 <izalove> blue screen says hardware error
00:19:57 <izalove> i booted ubuntu from usb and it worked for several hours with no problem
00:20:26 <izalove> internet works, screen works, keyboard works, disk works
00:22:11 <izalove> i don't want to reinstall windows if it's not gonna fix the problem
00:23:26 <izalove> no but it worked fine with ubuntu
00:23:49 <olsner> that might just mean ubuntu failed to crash because of the problem
00:24:16 <olsner> and instead you have e.g. corrupted files or file systems
00:24:24 <hppavilion[1]> olsner: That's a horrifying sentence. Is that a joke?
00:24:53 <hppavilion[1]> olsner: I think I'm never going to switch to linux
00:25:05 <izalove> olsner: i used ubuntu to copy all the files to a different machine
00:25:36 <olsner> hppavilion[1]: I'm talking about the case where you have bad ram that is actually flipping bits
00:25:58 <izalove> how could ubuntu not crash in that case?
00:26:19 <olsner> good/bad luck, pretty much
00:27:52 <fizzie> Compiling something big is the traditional way of surfacing problems like that.
00:28:16 <fizzie> https://www.bitwizard.nl/sig11/ and so on.
00:29:02 <olsner> but running a memtest is good, that should either confirm or almost-exclude memory problems as the cause and you can go on to other theories or replace the ram
00:29:22 <HackEgo> olsner//olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines.
00:29:47 <HackEgo> 4366:2014-01-25 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/$/./\' wisdom/olsner \ 4365:2014-01-24 <km̈c> echo \'olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines\' > wisdom/olsner \ 656:2012-08-16 <oerjän> learn olsner seems to exist at least.
00:30:41 <olsner> (and I am not actually here, ignore me while I resume procrastinihting)
00:30:48 <shachaf> `learn_append olsner His poetry's alphanumeric.
00:30:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'olsner': olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric.
00:31:33 <izalove> i was also wondering if linux is actually detecting a hardware problem and working around it
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01:11:59 <zzo38> There is the rule in GURPS that a Faraday shield can block a lightning bolt spell.
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01:20:33 <oerjan> my internet was down :(
01:21:15 <Zarutian> net erectile dysfunction? Seems you got it up again
01:21:33 <oerjan> i didn't, i just waited.
01:21:51 <oerjan> after turning off and on the router enough times.
01:22:19 <oerjan> and convincing myself the fault wasn't on my side.
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01:59:12 <hppavilion[1]> If one chooses a random natural number, what is the probability of getting any particular random number?
02:01:51 <oerjan> (more seriously, a uniformly random natural number does not fit in usual probability theory)
02:02:52 <Jafet> when you choose a random natural number, you get a natural number, not a random number
02:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I do feel like probability theory should have a value other than 0 for that. Using 0 bugs me.
02:04:10 <shachaf> The serious answer is not 0.
02:04:19 <shachaf> (The serious answer appears in parentheses.)
02:05:05 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: probability theory has an axiom of countable additivity, which means that for countable sets you just sum the probabilities.
02:05:30 <oerjan> as a series. which means summing 0s gives 0.
02:05:39 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if r is a randomly-chosen real in [0 -> 1], P(r = k) = ι for any constant k in [0 -> 1]
02:06:12 <oerjan> well then it wasn't a probability to start with.
02:06:35 <shachaf> Watch out, you don't want to do too much probability theory.
02:06:37 <oerjan> another axiom is that the probability of the whole outcome space is 1.
02:07:02 <shachaf> Bad things can happen, as specified in the axiom of countable addictivity.
02:07:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: for reals it's simpler. then the probability _is_ 0, and it works splendidly.
02:07:34 <oerjan> (they're not countable.)
02:08:20 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, that makes sense. I was confus as to what you were saying
02:08:31 <hppavilion[1]> I thought it was something about summing distinct sets
02:08:57 <oerjan> it is, it's just that when your whole space is countalbe you can make the sets contain a single point each
02:10:42 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:12:00 <Jafet> the axiom of countable addictivity has been reported to leave people with a sense of disjointedness
02:12:28 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If one DID make a number ι (not the definition above, that was a mistake), where sum({|countably infinitely many ιs|}) = 1, and SOMEHOW dodged all the problems and paradoxes you get with infinity and infinitessimals, would ι be an acceptable probability there?
02:13:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If you can't practice what you preach, don't preach it
02:14:25 <oerjan> i'm just demonstrating privilege hth
02:15:11 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you seem to be under the misconception that the swatter has ever been used fairly.
02:16:16 <shachaf> oerjan is the final arbiter of swatworthiness
02:16:33 <oerjan> can we revoke hppavilion[1]'s unicode privileges instead?
02:16:35 <shachaf> He's even the arbiter where natural numbers are concerned.
02:17:18 <Jafet> (some addicts have also shown σ lingering behaviours)
02:17:20 <hppavilion[1]> Where *S is the probability of some element of S the one chosen when an element is chosen at random
02:17:54 <oerjan> Jafet: i don't get it.
02:18:35 <hppavilion[1]> Or, P(*S) is that probability. *S is... I don't know... short for <some random element of S> = <some independent random element of S>?
02:19:09 <hppavilion[1]> Because P(a = b) = 1/|S| for two independently-randomly-chosen elements of S a and b, right?
02:19:14 <Jafet> they're σ-addicts hth
02:20:28 <oerjan> the sigma is fine. i'm wondering where lingering fits.
02:21:43 <shachaf> Anyway I didn't even manage to make "arbiter" work.
02:22:24 <HackEgo> P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
02:22:50 <HackEgo> 8981:2016-08-27 <oerjän> learn P is the complexity class of problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP. \ 8982:2016-08-27 <oerjän> learn P is the complexity class of Problems. They can be solved by reduction to NP.
02:23:06 <shachaf> Are you sure NP isn't Nasty Problems?
02:23:44 <oerjan> `le//rn p.//P. is p. easy to understand.
02:23:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'p.': P. is p. easy to understand.
02:24:04 <HackEgo> NP is the complexity class of decisions that are No Problem.
02:24:27 <oerjan> i didn't say the reduction was easy.
02:25:16 <oerjan> shachaf: as an arbiter, it's obviously my job to be arbitrary.
02:25:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, are all problems decision problems?
02:28:18 <oerjan> `le/rn promise problem/A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is particularly difficult.
02:28:18 <Jafet> `sled p.//sSsSs a p. good word that isS
02:29:00 <oerjan> `le//rn promise problem//A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is particularly difficult.
02:29:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'promise problem': A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is particularly difficult.
02:29:06 <Jafet> `slwd p.//sSsSs a p. good word that isS
02:29:09 <HackEgo> p.//P. is a p. good word that is p. easy to understand.
02:31:19 <oerjan> `slwd promise problem//s,par.* ,p. ,
02:31:23 <HackEgo> promise problem//A promise problem is one that happens because you promise too much. Their reduction to NP is p. difficult.
02:34:11 <shachaf> oerjan: now do all the other complexity classes twh
02:35:19 <Jafet> `? complexity class
02:35:21 <HackEgo> complexity class? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:36:13 <shachaf> p. sure P is a complexity set
02:54:50 <Jafet> `le//rn complexity class//Complexity classes are endangered creatures that lived unnoticed until the mid-20th century, when human exploitation caused many populations to collapse. The remaining specimens are now studied ethically in Canada.
02:54:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'complexity class': Complexity classes are endangered creatures that lived unnoticed until the mid-20th century, when human exploitation caused many populations to collapse. The remaining specimens are now studied ethically in Canada.
03:08:44 <Jafet> in waterloo, specifically
03:09:48 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//2s,exit 1,{ echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >\&2 ; exit 1 },
03:09:53 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >&2 ; exit 1 } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed '
03:10:13 <HackEgo> /hackenv/le/rn: line 7: syntax error: unexpected end of file
03:11:45 <oerjan> `sled bin/slashlearn//2s,exit 1,&;,
03:11:49 <HackEgo> bin/slashlearn//sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed
03:12:00 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
03:13:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/testing//Testing is mandatory.
03:41:01 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
03:41:19 <izalove> guess who wrote the first piece of inutility that recurses in a directory tree
03:41:24 <izalove> ok i'll tell you: it was me
03:43:16 <izalove> a collection of small linux utilities
03:46:30 * oerjan starts chasing muphry with the saucepan ===\__/
03:46:36 <zzo38> What is it doing though?
03:47:56 <zzo38> I wrote a program called "lease" which is specific to Linux. (It simply waits until a file is accessed, and then terminates.)
03:48:34 <shachaf> Why did you write it rather than using e.g. inotifywait?
03:48:51 <izalove> maybe they didn't know about inotifywait
03:49:09 <zzo38> shachaf: For one thing, I didn't know about it.
03:49:38 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/dAQh
03:49:45 <zzo38> That is how it works.
03:51:40 <hppavilion[1]> It'd be really nice to be able to use a computer entirely without a mouse most of the time...
03:51:53 <izalove> zzo38: what happens if you remove the second fcntl call?
03:52:02 <hppavilion[1]> Like, what if I had a tiny command prompt in the corner of my screen I could just trigger whenever that does everything nicely?
03:52:11 <zzo38> izalove: Probably nothing
03:52:27 <zzo38> s/nothing/not cause any problem/
03:53:58 <zzo38> Also this program is very small compared to inotifywait
03:55:54 <izalove> hppavilion[1]: with urxvt+bspwm+vimperator i almost never use a mouse
04:11:27 <tswett> So I realized the other day...
04:12:14 <tswett> It's plausible that Goldbach's conjecture is false (there is an even number no smaller than 4 which is not the sum of two prime numbers), but that this cannot be feasibly proven within ZFC.
04:14:24 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: And defining 1 as prime or non-prime is actually just arbitrary
04:14:59 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: you're making my blood simmer.
04:16:18 <tswett> The number-of-prime-divisors function clearly should say 0 for 1.
04:16:50 <tswett> Number-of-prime-divisors-including-duplicates, that is.
04:17:26 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Well, yes. I call the bag of prime divisors of n ςn, so you could say |ςn|
04:57:09 <izalove> -a Replace the file with a new file that contains the file's original content, with the standard
04:57:11 <izalove> input appended to it. This is done atomically when possible.
04:57:37 <izalove> atomically when possible in this case just means to use rename when the file didn't exist
04:57:56 <izalove> is there any filesystem that allows concatenating two files atomically?
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05:09:14 <zzo38> Cumulative upkeep--untap a nontoken creature
05:21:43 <HackEgo> [U+03A7 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER CHI] [U+03A1 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER RHO]
05:23:30 <HackEgo> [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
05:26:42 <myname> by the way, duolingo actually does a pretty good job at that
05:27:04 <myname> it has fewer words that say leo, but it has more phrase-like stuff
05:29:10 <myname> it doesn't work well on this one, though
05:34:42 <myname> it's actually pretty hard to translate, i'm surprised
05:36:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: OK, just to check, does standard QWERTZ have a slash I can do commands with?
05:37:25 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Looks like slash is shift+7, back slash is Alt-Gr+ß.
05:40:46 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of Magic: the Gathering card: Cast target permanent.
05:41:24 <myname> what would that do to say "your opponent loses one health"?
05:42:04 <zzo38> I do not quite understand you?
05:42:24 <myname> okay, i may not understand your desired effect correctly
05:44:19 <zzo38> I mean what it says
05:44:45 <myname> i am not familiar with mtg
05:46:05 <zzo38> Then you must learn. http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/
05:46:34 <myname> nah, i donjt find it that interesting
05:50:15 <myname> i am not sure what "listing ascii" is supposed to mean, but you'd say "listet ascii auf"
05:52:27 <hppavilion[1]> [to mean that it has an entry to translate ASCII into german]
05:53:06 <myname> what does it translate to?
05:53:44 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I'm attempting to say "Oh, my dictionary lists ASCII". In retrospect, "lists" may have been bad word choice, because it doesn't even sound normal in english xD
05:54:08 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Just ASCII. I thought it was interesting because it seems obvious
05:54:45 <myname> i don't see any reason to translate acronyms
05:55:32 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe ascii is in such common use people are beginning to forget it's an acronym?
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09:13:31 <HackEgo> 709) <monqy> Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird
09:26:44 <HackEgo> 984) <Bike> W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. <Bike> Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. <Bike> It literally says that
09:29:10 <HackEgo> 371) <Gregor> oklopol: Why do you have so much experience with hoop-and-stick? :P <oklopol> Gregor: my fetish: learning pointless skills
09:33:19 <int-e> . o O ( It's so messy that we simply think of it as goo. We don't know how it works but it works. )
09:37:21 <HackEgo> 624) <oerjan> wolfram armageddon, the genius overlord game
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09:54:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50459&oldid=50436 * L3viathan * (+75) add link to Rust implementation
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10:08:03 <b_jonas> whoa... another ais523 esolang
10:17:02 <olsner> aah, monqy and 'hi' memes, good old esoteric times
10:20:14 <b_jonas> ARGH trivial brainfuck substitutions have now spread to non-brainfuck esolangs. I don't know if I should consider that a good or a bad thing. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numeric_Underload
10:24:50 <b_jonas> oh! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Incident#O.28log_n.29_version
10:28:10 <b_jonas> apparently oerjan has a construction
10:28:55 <nvd> `? fuzzy prolog
10:37:21 <Jafet> subjectivist prolog
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11:36:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Emotinomicon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50460 * B jonas * (+502) Created page with "'''Emotinomicon''' is a stack-based language by [[User:Conor O'Brien]]. Source code in this language is text built from emoticon characters. The language is likely Turing-co..."
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11:47:28 <HackEgo> ehlist//ehlist is update notification for the Everyday Heroes webcomic. http://eheroes.smackjeeves.com/
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12:37:15 <izalove> how often do non-vegetarian humans eat meat on avg? like, 2-4 times a week?
12:37:36 <izalove> dog food contains meat, dogs eat meat twice a day
12:37:58 <izalove> so to prove that you love animals you have to feed your dog other animals
12:39:18 <nvd> Or get a hamster
12:39:42 <izalove> yeah we love animals so let's get rid of dogs
12:46:37 <b_jonas> izalove: I personally eat meat more than once per day, in particular, I insist on eating meat for the main course of the biggest meal (lunch or dinner) of the day, and often eat meat other times too,
12:46:47 <b_jonas> provided you use a permissive enough definition of meat.
12:47:06 <LKoen> I eat meat at every lunch
12:47:18 <izalove> b_jonas: meat is a spectrum?
12:47:27 <LKoen> because I eat at the university restaurant and they don't know about vegetables
12:47:38 <LKoen> (someone seriously needs to tell them)
12:49:25 <b_jonas> izalove: for the purposes of this quest, food made of ground meat or sausages of any kind that isn't clearly a vegetarian sausage counts as meat, even if it actually has low meat content; also liver and other internals are meat; and fish meat is still meat.
12:49:57 <b_jonas> izalove: basically each vegetarian uses different definitions of what he doesn't eat, so you need ot clarify this stuff
12:50:20 <izalove> so some vegetarians can eat salami?
12:50:22 <b_jonas> but the stuff I eat as meat is probably things most vegetarians don't eat
12:50:30 <b_jonas> izalove: no, but some vegetarians might eat fish
12:52:21 <b_jonas> the sausages definitely have some meat, so vegetarians don't eat them, it's just that some of the low quality ones have so little meat and so much fat and skin and other animal parts that we don't dare calling it real meat
12:54:09 <b_jonas> basically, some "meat products" are made like this: you take the meat out of the pig because that thing is valuable, then ground the rest of the pig to very small particles and crush it together to a pink mostly homogenous thing and then heat it up for hygienic reasons. the result is clearly something a vegetarian won't eat,
12:54:30 <b_jonas> but as a real meat-eater I have some hesitation of calling it meat, just like I have hesitation to call a Trabant a car
12:54:34 <FireFly> Yeah, fish I think is the main thing that is a bit arguable
12:54:50 <b_jonas> If you invite me to a meat dinner, and then buy me some of those meat products, I'll be disappointed.
12:55:09 <b_jonas> Accordingly, I try to eat real meat most of the time, but I don't want to claim that I eat real meat every day.
12:55:30 <FireFly> <izalove> how often do non-vegetarian humans eat meat on avg? like, 2-4 times a week? ← I mean, would you count a slice of ham or salami or something on a sandwich?
12:55:46 <FireFly> it feels like it's hard to quantify properly
12:57:00 <izalove> idk i was talking about lunch or dinner
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12:57:30 <FireFly> I would probably say most dishes then, I guess
12:57:30 <b_jonas> FireFly: "how many times" is also hard to count: if for lunch I eat real chicken meat in a good meat soup (broth or bouillon or whatever you call that stuff) and then I eat real meat for main course, then how much do I have to wait between the two to count as eating meat twice
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13:33:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tiny]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50461&oldid=33690 * Ron.hudson * (+141)
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14:06:10 <b_jonas> I knew there'd be one, but couldn't see it
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17:27:57 <\oren\> Cats are also obliagte carnivores
17:28:58 <\oren\> and if you have mice infesting your neighbourhood, you don't need to feed them as much
17:30:26 <\oren\> I have meat as part of my dinner pretty much every day
17:30:30 <izalove> cloudatcost support just replied to my ticket
17:31:06 <\oren\> izalove: presumably it is cheaper than AWS right?
17:32:20 <izalove> so aws is probably cheaper if you have cancer
17:34:13 <\oren\> ok, so yeah, you're getting what youre paying for
17:35:18 <int-e> izalove: so was the reply in any way constructive?
17:36:13 <int-e> 21 days uptime and no disk read or write error... what's happening!
17:37:01 <izalove> int-e: http://i.imgur.com/nQmEFOk.png
17:37:56 <izalove> that issue was resolved like 3 days later
17:40:11 <int-e> well at least you got the (I'm assuming...) Senior Support Engineer to reply to you... sure must feel good :P
17:58:50 <\oren\> Trump just tanked Boeing's stock with a tweet
18:03:43 <\oren\> He says the new Air Force One is overpriced and he'll cancelt heir contract
18:05:00 <ybden> I wonder how much he's going to destroy whilst he's president
18:05:17 <ybden> izalove: Huh. I wonder how they're able to provide such cheap services
18:05:18 <\oren\> a new and terrifying reign of terror for governemnt contractors
18:06:35 <ybden> Oh, you can only choose between Ubuntu, CentOS, Windows and FreeBSD
18:06:54 <ybden> “The CloudatCost Datacenter is located in Canada, Eh!” lol
18:07:44 <int-e> ybden: the official story is that they're a side business of a telco so traffic and housing is essentially free to them. previous speculation on this channel points towards a pyramid scheme, essentially. it's *really* hard to tell, because they offer larger servers with regular payments... so it depends on how many of these people are actually paying for.
18:08:38 <ybden> The pyramid scheme is probably more likely :P
18:09:25 <int-e> And in any case, if they stop being profitable, bankruptcy trumps life-time contracts.
18:11:25 -!- Zarutian has joined.
18:13:01 <int-e> Anyway at this point I'm below $1/month of disservice, so it's all fine :P
18:16:02 <\oren\> lol, this unicode mailing list
18:16:09 <\oren\> How about package names like ロシアМС21(Note the МС are Cyrillic), or πr²の秘密, or エリ_хорошо_μ'sic_4⃣ever? Although they aren't really names that people would usually use in package/var names, they are meaningful names...
18:16:19 <int-e> Emoji were a mistake?
18:17:02 <\oren\> int-e: they're arguing over how to prevent name spoofing in source code
18:17:20 <HackEgo> [U+0034 DIGIT FOUR] [U+20E3 COMBINING ENCLOSING KEYCAP]
18:17:33 <\oren\> I need to add that too?!?!?!
18:19:02 <Zarutian> first I heard the word Emoji I thought it was something like Emo-Ji, an ridiculus card game played by emo kids
18:19:27 <int-e> e(l|r)i good music forever?
18:19:48 <\oren\> int-e: it's a reference to Love Live's http://love-live.wikia.com/wiki/Ayase_Eli and I am somewhat embarrassed for knowing all about it
18:20:35 <int-e> that does make sense...
18:21:41 <FireFly> \oren\: hm, those examples are actually worse than what I usually see when it comes to japanese titles of things
18:22:07 <ybden> int-e: is the service really that bad?
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18:24:57 <int-e> ybden: well for most of the time (23 months now) my VM would have the occasional write error to the storage device, causing it to mount the FS read-only and become unusable. I haven't tried customer support. From what I've seen the VMs tend to be sluggish (see HackEgo). But it could be far worse... as far as I know VMs don't simply disappear or reboot spontaneously, for example.
18:25:46 <int-e> I have actually lost data though (nothing that wasn't backed up or easy to recreate; I never put anything important there in the first place).
18:26:57 <int-e> where "occasional" averages at every 2 or 3 weeks so far.
18:35:41 <int-e> oh there's also this story http://www.cloudatacost.com/
18:35:52 <int-e> (with a brilliant domain name)
18:38:29 <int-e> I think I read that before I bought that VM.
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22:27:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50462 * Redstarcoder * (+9621) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=*><>}} '''*><>''' (pronounced as "starfish") is a [[Push-down_automaton|stack-based]], reflective, two-dimensional esoteric programming language based dire..."
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22:54:52 <boily> int-e: int-ello. lambdie isn't fnordular enough hth
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23:04:15 <boily> @tell hppavilion[1] hppavellon[1]. proper gender-neutral pronouns are shi and hir hth
23:05:04 <boily> bonshachoir. rien de tel qu'un bon cabot pour enjoyer la soirée.
23:06:22 <shachaf> rien de tel que un bon cabot
23:06:45 <boily> «qu'un». «-e» and «u-» merge together.
23:06:52 <shachaf> i do not use contractions hth
23:07:17 <boily> you ought to jqça.
23:11:51 <boily> the reddit admins modified the way votes count. the sudden spike is jarring.
23:12:10 <int-e> boily: you do realize that I'm tempted to have a per-channel edit distance setting just so I can set it to 0 for #esoteric?
23:13:06 <int-e> (but fortunately for you all there's currently no infrastructure for per channel settings at all.)
23:13:59 <Zarutian> boily: in what way do the votes count now?
23:14:53 <boily> Zarutellon. https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5gvd6b/scores_on_posts_are_about_to_start_going_up/
23:15:47 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think those contractions (removing the last vowel of the words "le la que de je se me te ce ne" when a vowel follows) are mandatory.
23:16:40 <shachaf> wob_jonas: then how come i managed not to use them hth
23:17:33 <boily> wob_jellonas. they are grammatically mandated.
23:18:47 <wob_jonas> The optional contractions are basically the silent schwas, which means that the vowel "e" when it would be pronounced as [ə] need not be pronounced, but that doesn't change writing, except that it must be pronounced when it's necessary to break up a cluster of three actually pronounced consonants (sometimes there's a choice of which schwa you prono
23:18:47 <wob_jonas> unce there) or it's the vowel in "que" or you're singing an opera.
23:20:52 <wob_jonas> Also there are informal optional contractions that come from (a) sometimes dropping the vowel of some of those words listed above even when not followed by a vowel, and (b) dropping a consonant from a consonant cluster in some cases.
23:21:10 <Zarutian> boily: aand what was the point of that change?
23:21:41 <wob_jonas> You don't have to use any of these informal contractions, but you'd better recognize them if you want to understand spoken French... though that's impossible anyway, so don't bother.
23:22:12 <wob_jonas> Spoken French is a speak-only language, it's pretty hard to understand.
23:22:47 <wob_jonas> (I wonder if it's more speak-only than Japanese, but someone who is proficient in both of those would have to tell.)
23:22:49 <boily> Zarutian: no idea what for it was to.
23:23:42 <boily> wob_jonas: spoken French is easy, tsé.
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23:25:11 <wob_jonas> My main problem with spoken French is that there are neither significant vowel length differences nor significant stress differences to break up a sentence.
23:26:05 <wob_jonas> And that results in too few entropy in the syllables and so too many ambiguities, though there's effectively still much more entropy per syllable than in Japanese.
23:27:58 <Zarutian> boily: I thought posts were simply ordered by inverse of 'expiry' unix timestamp (upvotes just moved the expiry further into the future while downvotes did the opposite). (Expiry started as default <timestamp of post> + <one day worth of seconds>)
23:28:19 <LKoen> wob_jonas: I'm pretty sure there are a lot of hints to break the sentences
23:29:09 <LKoen> because the quality of grammar and punctuation in newspaper has decreased pretty abruptly over the past few years
23:29:31 <LKoen> and when reading an article out loud I can hear that the music of it is all wrong
23:29:46 <LKoen> the sentences break at the wrong places
23:29:48 <Zarutian> boily: (basically the post with the expiry furthest into the future is displayed first, then the next furthers one and so on)
23:30:00 <boily> Zarutian: that's how it approximatively worked, plus a fortuitous implementation bug where if the first vote was an upvote, the post got catapulted up front.
23:30:57 <boily> wob_jonas: it depends on the variety of spoken French. some of them have overlong vowels.
23:31:19 <wob_jonas> wob_jonas: overlong vowels for what function? as in, which vowels are overlong?
23:36:23 <wob_jonas> In Hungarian, we have stress and some phonology clues to break sentences to words: stress is always on the first syllable of a word, consonant clusters are usually either at word boundaries or at the start of grammatical inflections or in the syllable before them (and you distinguish between these by recognizing inflections),
23:38:34 <boily> stress happens on the last syllable. vowels with circumflexes are long (that distinction is lost in Metropolitan French).
23:39:29 <boily> clusters are hard to categorize. devoiced vowels happen all the time and give a Japanese feeling to words.
23:39:34 <wob_jonas> vowels have a somewhat different distribution in different parts of the word, which can help guess boundaries, and "a" before a stressed syllable is very often an article; as a result most of the ambiguities comes from when you don't know if a consonant is starting a word or ending the previous word, even though you can tell which syllables are in
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23:41:15 <wob_jonas> boily: which sort of vowels with circumflexes? the hôtel/fenêtre type that comes from etimology, the vowels in passé simple and past conditional forms, or the vowels that are circumflexed only for disambiguation like dû?
23:42:28 <boily> the etymological kind and conjugation one. circumflexes for disambiguation are pronounced the same as without.
23:43:14 <boily> although you may hear a difference between fr:à → en:to, and fr:a → en:(he/she/it) has.
23:45:27 <wob_jonas> boily: difference between à and a (form of avoir)? hmm...
23:45:52 <boily> à is /æ/, and a is /ɑ/.
23:46:48 <boily> I think that one is dialectal only, but this is an unfounded conjecture.
23:48:08 <wob_jonas> and are other not very rare words pronounced as /æ/ too? or is /æ/ a definite clue for that one word?
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23:49:21 <boily> /æ/ is definitely à, and nothing else.
23:51:16 <boily> the [æ] sound will appear in «ma ta sa», but it'll be preceded by those clear consonants, so there's no ambiguity in there.
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23:53:42 <\oren\> the correct gender neutral pronoun is "that person".
23:55:19 <wob_jonas> Obviously spoken Hungarian is still hard enough to interpret, especially if it comes through a noisy channel, and a large part of my problem with spoken French is just that I'm not used to it.
23:55:40 <\oren\> in japanese it's sonohito which gets weirdified until it sounds almost like sonofto
23:55:51 <boily> of course, you can use contrived examples like «ma pelle m'apelle».
23:56:36 <wob_jonas> And also that reading written English or written French is easy because the grammar has a lot of similarities to Hungarian, and that's what I'm used to, whereas Hungarian doesn't help much if I try to listen to French or if I tried to learn to read Japanese or whatever.
23:57:07 <\oren\> like, you have to learn to pronounce an h at the beginning of a consonant cluster
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00:02:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50463&oldid=50462 * Redstarcoder * (+33) /* Concepts */
00:02:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50464&oldid=50444 * Redstarcoder * (+20) /* Non-alphabetic */ Added *><>
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00:47:26 <oerjan> there appears to be a nearly 2 hour gap in the logs. if anyone said anything of interest, please repeat it here twh
00:48:22 <HackEgo> 709) <monqy> Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird
00:48:58 <oerjan> and then it gweirdot, but i think monqy was gone by then.
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00:49:43 <boily> hellørjan. which two hours twh
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00:50:31 <oerjan> from 01:33 to 3:20 tunes time hth
00:51:09 <shachaf> I'll give you the missing bits.
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00:52:12 <HackEgo> Your golfing @massages-lord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:52:19 <shachaf> `slwrjan s#golfing#completionist#
00:52:19 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwrjan: not found
00:52:45 <HackEgo> 9808:2016-11-30 <shachäf> ` mv bin/s{l,}wrjan # no slash \ 9700:2016-11-17 <shachäf> mkx bin/slwrjan//slwd "oerjan//$1"
00:53:20 <shachaf> `swrjan s#golfing#completionist#; soaoeo
00:53:24 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your completionist @messages-lord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:54:02 <boily> oerjan doesn't massage; I do.
00:58:43 <shachaf> normally you have to be italian
00:59:00 <oerjan> what italic, i see reverse video hth
00:59:44 <\oren\> I can do 𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑐 like this
01:00:13 <\oren\> but I think the way hackego is doing it, it looks different
01:00:59 <boily> both are reverse for me.
01:01:12 <boily> the onlitalic I saw was the \oren\ one.
01:02:37 <\oren\> I did it using unicode
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01:03:06 <boily> mhelloony. are you italic?
01:05:25 <boily> space test, and respace retest.
01:06:46 <boily> rerespace reretest, reand rererespace rereretest.
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01:10:53 <HackEgo> CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order.
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01:17:04 <oerjan> `swrjan s/oerjan/swr &/
01:17:08 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your completionist @messages-lord swr oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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01:22:01 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:22:15 <boily> one measly character less. that is unacceptable!
01:22:26 <HackEgo> You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as a techincian, banal mistakes of engineers. Also a provider of authentic fakes.
01:24:41 <shachaf> Why does asking people not to do things cause them to do those things?
01:24:45 <\oren\> `` head -c 10 wisdom/oerjan | od -c
01:24:46 <HackEgo> 0000000 Y o u r 026 c o m p \ 0000012
01:26:55 <\oren\> hooray hooray its a glorius day for I have found my cow!
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01:28:04 <ybden> I suppose since shachaf is gone, there is no need to stop
01:29:57 <ybden> @tell shachaf I believe it's called reverse psychology hth
01:32:37 <Zarutian> `le/rn Zarutian/You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:32:39 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
01:32:55 <Zarutian> `le//rn Zarutian/You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:32:57 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
01:33:07 <Zarutian> `le//rn Zarutian//You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:33:10 <HackEgo> Relearned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider
01:34:48 * boily fears Zarutian's unnerver
01:37:44 <HackEgo> You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild
01:37:50 <Zarutian> `le//rn Icelandic unnerver/An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:37:51 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
01:38:13 <Zarutian> `le//rn Icelandic unnerver//An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:38:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'icelandic unnerver': An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:38:47 <HackEgo> bin/append \ bin/learn_append \ bin/learn_append2
01:39:09 <boily> Zarutian: are you a VX junkie, by chance?
01:39:32 <fizzie> I met an Icelandic person today.
01:39:47 <Zarutian> `le//rn_append Zarutian// of Realers.
01:39:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
01:40:22 <Zarutian> `learn_append Zarutian of Realers.
01:40:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
01:40:50 <HackEgo> You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild
01:41:17 <boily> https://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/
01:42:04 <fizzie> `` tail -c 50 wisdom/zarutian # Zarutian: I think you overcompensated.
01:42:05 <HackEgo> om the guild of Realers. of Realers. of Realers.
01:42:42 <boily> `quote april lavigne
01:42:49 <HackEgo> 96) <fungot> AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. \ 923) <fungot> kmc: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there \ 1031) <fungot> boily: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there
01:42:50 <Zarutian> `le//rn Zarutian//You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from the guild
01:42:52 <HackEgo> Relearned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider
01:43:24 <Zarutian> `learn_append Zarutian of Realers.
01:43:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
01:45:29 <oerjan> internet connection disappeared again... only lasted about 27 mins though
01:46:42 <oerjan> <shachaf> Why does asking people not to do things cause them to do those things? <-- law of attraction hth htht
01:47:10 <ybden> oerjan: shachaf isn't present hth
01:47:12 <oerjan> (net is still laggy which hurts my typing)
01:53:26 <oerjan> ybden: he's probably destined to avoid learning that, then.
01:54:22 <oerjan> `slwd icelandic unnerver//s/../An Icelandic unnerver is a/
01:54:26 <HackEgo> icelandic unnerver//An Icelandic unnerver is a steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
01:56:53 * boily is right in being afraid of Zarutian's unnerver.
01:59:01 <oerjan> `` tail -c 50 wisdom/zarutian
01:59:02 <HackEgo> fakes provider' seal from the guild of Realers.
01:59:25 <oerjan> `slwd zarutian//s/ of/ of/
01:59:28 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian, he fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
01:59:46 <oerjan> Zarutian: the entry itself is fine, you're just hitting HackEgo's output length limit
02:00:01 <boily> `slwd zarutian//s/, h/. H/
02:00:04 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Posseses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
02:00:21 <ybden> Aww, 'tis no longer the recreational end.
02:00:47 <Zarutian> oerjan: cant HackEgo break the output into numerous PRIVMSGes?
02:01:00 <boily> `slwd zarutian//sse\sese\s\ses
02:01:02 <HackEgo> zarutian//You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider' seal from
02:01:42 <ybden> oerjan: 'twas originally "[...] that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its recreational end. [...]" hth
02:01:58 <boily> Zarutian: did I encocoonspirate you with the Wisdom Repository yet?
02:02:25 <Zarutian> ybden: what are you talking about?
02:02:38 <oerjan> also, even the // version of append inserts a space. it's rarely needed though since learn_append works for anything not containing spaces in the key.
02:02:40 <HackEgo> An Icelandic unnerver is a steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
02:02:57 <ybden> Er, wasn't originally
02:03:06 <ybden> At some point, it was changed to the recreational end
02:03:10 <ybden> And then back to business end
02:04:04 <ybden> < Zarutian> `le//rn Icelandic unnerver//An steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
02:04:05 <boily> Zarutian: could you github me please?
02:04:32 <oerjan> <Zarutian> oerjan: cant HackEgo break the output into numerous PRIVMSGes? <-- it never answers a single command with more than one line. this is a feature. we have some commands for splitting up, but you need to ask for the next line.
02:05:32 <HackEgo> 1/2:You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
02:07:02 <HackEgo> 2/2: seal from the guild of Realers.
02:14:06 <Jafet> @ask tswett it may even be possible that we can prove Goldbach's conjecture in ZFC, and there exists a counterexample too large to be effectively described in ZFC
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02:15:22 <oerjan> Jafet: but then ZFC is inconsistent.
02:16:08 <oerjan> since any counterexample can be checked in finite time.
02:19:22 <izalove> why do people even care about goldbach?
02:19:42 <izalove> i can come up with dozens of stupid problems like that
02:19:47 <izalove> that can take centuries to solve
02:20:08 <izalove> it has no application whatsoever
02:20:36 <oerjan> neither did fermat's last theorem, yet trying to solve it launched modern algebra.
02:21:44 <izalove> but then after that initial input it was irrelevant for a century?
02:22:10 <oerjan> i don't know much about that.
02:23:30 <oerjan> "why do people even care about anything that has no applications"
02:24:02 <oerjan> that's essentially what you're asking.
02:25:01 <Jafet> modern algebra proved fermat's last theorem by accident, for the most part
02:25:03 <izalove> sort of, but applications in this case can also mean theoretical applications
02:25:15 <izalove> Jafet: think older modern algebra
02:26:34 <oerjan> what they have in common is that they are simple problems that test the limits of the available tools, challenging mathematicians to develop better tools.
02:27:37 <oerjan> the reason why they're useless is the same as the reason why they're focused on: they're the simplest too hard problems of their kind.
02:30:11 <oerjan> also, they _do_ get some excessive attention because they're simple enough to be understood by a non-professional mathematician.
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02:46:46 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 23.916 184000 dawn
02:46:46 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 60438.9967102714
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05:18:45 <lambdabot> boily said 6h 14m 29s ago: hppavellon[1]. proper gender-neutral pronouns are shi and hir hth
05:19:16 <mad> does the universe have a spectrum?
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05:21:55 <mad> a spectrum
05:22:02 <mad> high frequencies
05:22:06 <mad> medium frequencies
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06:01:12 <pikhq> https://github.com/pjf/rickastley I believe this concept will have broad approval.
06:01:18 <pikhq> For a brief presentation on the subject, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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06:42:04 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, germany was trying to ban adblockers at some point
06:42:29 <hppavilion[1]> But here's a problem with it: I have a pretty good feeling it's illegal to fund Nazi groups in Germany
06:42:52 <myname> the newspapers still want to d that
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06:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> But together it would mean it's illegal to even *visit* sites used by Nazi groups (even for, say, important research purposes™), as you might inadvertently fund them via ad revenue that you can't blcok
06:44:57 <hppavilion[1]> [obviously this isn't REALLY what would happen, but you could still use it as a vector to get a case in assuming German law behaves in the slightest like US law)
06:45:12 <myname> i highly doubt that looking at an ad counts as funding
06:45:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's the advertiser that funds, not the visitor hth
06:46:11 <myname> also, in germany we actually have laws to follow, not this "there was a similar case somewhere else" stuff
06:46:35 <Perenelle> Wait so hppavillion[1] Isn't a nazi
06:47:42 <Perenelle> The color I have you randomly listed as is neon green on a black background
06:48:39 * hppavilion[1] *may* have taught his younger sister how to do a Nazi salute, and she *may* do it on command when she hears "Sieg heil!"
06:49:31 <myname> that's like the most stupid thing i heard from you
06:50:00 <hppavilion[1]> You need to do the Nazi salute in certain Sound of Music roles ips
06:50:34 <Perenelle> It's commonly used to be like 'fam don't be stupid'
06:51:55 <Perenelle> My terminal/computer/which had a cord connecting to my onsite server. R.I.P fell off my desk today because of my God damn cat
06:56:17 <Perenelle> Hppavilion[1] how do you look like a nazi
06:57:41 <hppavilion[1]> I also frequently draw swatikæ, but that's just because the form itself is awesome. Fuckin' Nazis made it all Nazy... can't have anything nice...
06:57:41 <Perenelle> That makes you read like a middle Schooler from America that thinks the Holocaust was funny
06:58:19 <Perenelle> You mean the Buddhist symbol for peace
06:58:41 <mad> I have to admit that the nazis kinda lucked out on symbol lottery
06:58:59 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: It's just the generic symbol, really. Not associated with anything in my mind
06:59:22 <mad> due to the rotational symetry etc
07:00:15 <Perenelle> You'd have thought Hitler would have just rounded all the Jews or people he hated into a big cave underground and thrown some bombs in
07:00:21 <mad> people like stuff that's rotationally symmetric but not reflectively symmetric... just cause it looks cool
07:00:37 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: And to be fair, when I think "Nazis", I honestly think Enigma and incredibly engineering before Auschwitz
07:00:38 <mad> Perenelle : he didn't have time
07:01:14 <mad> jews were just the start, he had a good 50+ million slavs to kill after that
07:01:25 <hppavilion[1]> The Nazis were good at everything except human rights afaict
07:01:31 <Perenelle> A programming language that runs by using different names of nazi officers as the integers and calling commands
07:02:00 <hppavilion[1]> mad: <horrible-pun>You know, Hitler actually had rather severe ADHD as a child, and it made school *incredibly* difficult for him.
07:02:33 <Perenelle> Too bad he went blind from hysteria and went apeshit
07:02:48 <myname> Perenelle: actually, i know people who are trying to build something like that
07:02:58 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Some Nazi military strategy was decent. Hitler went out of his way to fuck it up, however.
07:03:17 <Perenelle> Not saying anything about you of course
07:03:29 <Perenelle> But why do you know people like that
07:03:50 <Perenelle> I try and stay away from toxic nazis
07:03:57 <pikhq> There's actually quite a lot in the Nazi regime that was a royal clusterfuck outside of human rights, TBH.
07:04:03 <Perenelle> But living in Toledo its quite hard
07:04:11 <myname> because computer scientists oftentimes have a strange kind of humor
07:04:21 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Yeah, same here; only free-range grass-fed nazis for me!
07:04:23 <pikhq> Which you might expect from a government ran as a literal dictatorship.
07:04:24 <Perenelle> The only thing that came out of ww2 was bdsm
07:04:45 <Perenelle> Just look at how sexual Germany is now
07:04:58 <Perenelle> Before that it was a very modest place
07:05:09 <mad> totalitarian states always get messed up. because people don't believe in the real world in those.
07:05:16 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: *everywhere* was very modest in the 19<40s
07:05:30 <mad> that's how communists messed up and killed dozens of millions
07:05:33 <myname> just because you don't see how many people do bdsm it does not mean people are modest
07:05:46 <hppavilion[1]> *sigh* <horrible-pun>You know, Hitler actually had rather severe ADHD as a child, and it made school *incredibly* difficult for him.
07:05:49 <pikhq> mad: Hooray, this makes me so happy about the future.
07:06:00 <Perenelle> I have nothing against bdsm you do you
07:06:11 <mad> sorry, I cannot bring you comfort if you're in the US :o
07:06:14 <hppavilion[1]> When he grew up and came to power, he built special concentration camps to help people in a similar predicament</horrible-pun>
07:06:43 <hppavilion[1]> Perenelle: Well, unless you're into that, and only specific types of public
07:06:53 <myname> Perenelle: saying ww2 lead to bdsm is like saying it lead to computers
07:07:03 <myname> there were barely any computers around before
07:07:04 <doesthiswork> I think germany was not particularly modest compared to other places https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Awakening_%28play%29
07:07:12 <pikhq> mad: The main thing I have that's comforting is that being LGBT and from a state oppressing you for it... is valid justification for refugee status in Canada.
07:07:30 <Perenelle> Ok well maybe Germany is just very sexual
07:07:51 <Perenelle> The main food is sausage and potatoes if I recall
07:08:25 <myname> Perenelle: it's not very sexual, it just isn't as screwed up as america
07:09:00 <myname> where it is perfectly fine to look at people getting brutally murdered, but a fraction of a second with a nipple is a big scandal
07:09:44 <Perenelle> Lets go back to the days where watching gore on international tele and newspaper was considered moral
07:10:13 <hppavilion[1]> "Georg fantasizes about his busty piano instructor, Frau Grossebustenhalter"
07:10:13 <mad> US really needs a political reform, but considering the current state of things, that's gonna take decades
07:11:10 <Perenelle> Gotta go sleep have work tommorow Zzzzz
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07:11:16 <myname> i don't really get the public morality standards of US
07:13:37 <myname> look at my previous sentence
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07:16:16 <hppavilion[1]> myname: We americans don't see how you can have a man's naked ass in a PG movie, even if it's a non-sexual joke, or why you freak out over any amount of violence :P
07:17:06 <mad> myname : my pet theory: a bunch of christians are really worried at losing their culture. anything that reminds them that they're on the losing side of the culture war, such as titties, makes them freak out. violence doesn't have that effect.
07:17:21 <mad> caveat: I don't really understand american christians
07:18:13 <myname> hppavilion[1]: we don't freak out at every amount
07:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And that comparison isn't entirely fair- the difference is the fraction-of-a-second-with-a-nipple thing was the Superbowl, which is a big family thing (I hate handegg- soccer isn't much better though- and even *I* go to parties to watch the superbowl some years), so there are young children watching and when people start freaking out the children ask and the parents have to explain and on and on and on, escalating itself, etc...
07:18:54 <myname> well, i did not have any special situation in mind
07:19:22 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And also, the exposed nipple in the Superbowl wasn't exactly planned in advance, it was a mistake
07:19:40 <hppavilion[1]> People getting brutally murdered is at *least* a PG-13- R if it's sufficiently brutal- in a movie, and TV-14 or TV-MA for TV
07:19:44 <myname> the sing is, sexuality is pretty normal in comparison to violence. most parents had sex :p
07:19:57 <hppavilion[1]> And those two can only be on TV at certain times after children have gone to bed
07:20:18 <myname> because, how should it be bad for a 13 year old to look at murder
07:21:16 <hppavilion[1]> And they're all planned in advance and completely fictional- seeing even a non-brutal REAL murder on TV or in a movie would be an outrage no matter how many warnings and restriction you put on it
07:21:22 <myname> informative murder porn
07:22:48 <myname> that would imply you take it for granted that every child knows that difference
07:23:06 <myname> bald assumption for a land that christian
07:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Everyone watching a movie with murder, yeah. You'd be hard-pressed to find a 13-year-old [barring ones with severe learning disabilities] who tells you that that person actually died
07:23:49 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Also, murder is a big part of some movie plots, and I imagine it's a lot harder to vaguely specify "murder ensues" than "coitus ensues", especially if it's a plot twist
07:24:58 <hppavilion[1]> Like, you can get the point that sex-then-happens across from a mile away with good enough euphemisms; if a character who's been good the whole movie suddenly turns out to be evil and a mole, you have to make it *very* clear so people actually believe it.
07:25:34 <hppavilion[1]> So in many cases, murder is of more vital artistic value than sex and nudity.
07:40:34 <doesthiswork> "children were watching"; children love breasts. When I was two, women would go "oh you're so cute, let me pick you up" and I would go "hello breasts, nice to meet you".
07:41:37 <doesthiswork> there are very few things more child friendly than breasts
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08:13:02 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF1HL335W7k
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10:05:20 <izalove> http://leftoversalad.com/c/015_programmingpeople/
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12:17:08 <boily> fungot: you wouldn't know where I could buy potassium permanganate in bulk, eh?
12:17:09 <fungot> boily: maybe i should stay with its own new-index) ( read-item input-string index)...)
12:17:24 <boily> fungot: searching your index for suppliers?
12:17:25 <fungot> boily: thank goodness i'm using scheme over a connection, sockets in c++ are constant pointers that are implicitly dereferenced.
12:17:53 <boily> fungot: yeah, please dereference the warehouse. it'll be easier and cheaper.
12:17:53 <fungot> boily: is it any more because otherwise you couldn't evaluate anything in the database for " ping". i didn't think it was
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13:53:06 <b_jonas> fungot, do you eat american sweet wafels with meat?
13:53:06 <fungot> b_jonas: expose? i must have been above average, if i remember correctly. or at least
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17:12:41 <\oren\> hah, javascript is clearly Tetsuo from Akira!
17:19:59 <moony> -eval throw new Error("but JS is nice ):")
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17:37:34 <otherbot> You do not have permission to use this command.
17:38:52 <moony> ybden, if you want to mess with that kind of thing, poke -js
17:39:25 <ybden> moony: what's the difference between js and eval?
17:39:42 <moony> eval is direct eval in the bot, js is sandboxed
17:39:44 <ybden> -js for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;)
17:39:45 <otherbot> SyntaxError: Unexpected token }
17:39:55 <ybden> -js for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) for (;;) ;
17:39:57 <otherbot> Error: Script execution timed out.
17:40:11 <otherbot> { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | Buffer: [Function: Buffer], | EventEmitter: [Function: EventEmitter], | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] }, | internal: { merge: [Function], apply: [Function] }, | alert: [Function] }
17:40:57 <moony> we tried to emulate the functionality we could
17:41:13 <moony> without weakening the sandbox. ^_^
17:41:28 <moony> so everything isbuilt inside the sandbox with no external context
17:41:42 <moony> -js this.constructor.constructor("return process.exit()")
17:41:47 <moony> -js this.constructor.constructor("return process.exit()")()
17:41:47 <otherbot> Error: process.exit() is not allowed
17:42:03 <moony> we can simply remove that
17:42:09 <moony> we just put that there for fun
17:42:14 <ybden> -js process["exit"]()
17:42:14 <otherbot> Error: process.exit() is not allowed
17:42:21 <ybden> -js process["exit"]
17:42:24 <moony> but dont expect to get out :P
17:42:32 <ybden> Do you have source code for this?
17:42:34 <ybden> -js return process["exit"]
17:42:38 <ybden> -js return process["exit"].constructor
17:42:41 <ybden> -js return process["exit"].constructor()
17:42:44 <ybden> -js return process["exit"].constructor()()
17:42:47 <moony> u can have core.js, but not the sandbox itself
17:42:47 <ybden> -js process["exit"].constructor()()
17:42:50 <ybden> -js process["exit"].constructor()
17:43:08 <ybden> moony: Security through obscurity?
17:43:31 <moony> but i will say one thing: this is the strongest sandbox written in PURE js i have ever seen :P
17:43:36 <moony> well not entirely pure
17:43:46 <moony> if its broken, we will disable it
17:43:54 <moony> as it is not disabled, it has not been broken yet
17:44:27 <moony> ybden, use the - prefix
17:44:33 <moony> use -list and -list <group> to see the commands
17:44:39 <moony> also, yes, im stalking you in the logs :P
17:44:42 <ybden> moony: I suggest not requiring the prefix when in PM
17:45:44 <moony> ybden, eh, i'll look into it, i didnt write everything in otherbot, wlp2s0 (jeffl35/iczero) wrote the core, iovoid helped write core.js, and the sandbox itself has credits to zzo38 for the concept and design :P
17:46:06 * moony gives zzo38 another cookie
17:47:16 <moony> ybden, alert timing out is a minor bug
17:47:24 <moony> its the same as console.log
17:47:29 <moony> just, bound incorrectly
17:48:07 <moony> actually, its just a joke, remember in browsers 'alert' opens a window, that 'window' never closes due to there being no browser, leme change that
17:48:39 <moony> oh haha ybden very funny
17:48:43 <moony> i see you found a minor bug
17:48:47 <iczero> -kban otherbot 5 wake up please lol
17:48:54 <moony> huh, it looks like IRL lasers generally transfer energy to what they hit. *thinks over how he could modify TPT phot to act like that*
17:49:07 <moony> [RECV] :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG otherbot :-js return new Uint32Array(9999999)
17:49:09 <ybden> moony: "minor bug"
17:49:17 <iczero> moony: timeouts gosh darnit
17:49:24 <ybden> Nice timeouts mate
17:49:25 <iczero> moony: did you remove the timeout >_>
17:49:33 <ybden> No, this circumvants the timeout
17:49:41 <moony> look at memory usage :P
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17:50:04 <FireFly> oh a JS bot with a supposedly safe sandbox
17:50:07 <ybden> < iczero> moony: what did he do ← she
17:50:09 <FireFly> can I try to break out of it?
17:50:26 <iczero> ybden: oh awesome sorry about that s/he|she/they/g
17:50:27 <ybden> FireFly: Probably?
17:50:28 <moony> FireFly, sure, so far people have only found out how to freeze everything, which i can solve with a subprocess on a timeout :P
17:50:40 <iczero> moony: i mean, it's not *that* hard
17:50:42 <FireFly> you will definitely want it to run in a separate process
17:50:48 <iczero> just make a separate file
17:50:50 <moony> leme implent 'that subprocess with a timeout'
17:50:56 <FireFly> assuming the bot is written in node and you use the 'vm' module or something, uh, don't do that
17:51:15 <iczero> context made by Object.create(null) works quite fine
17:51:23 <ybden> < moony> oh haha ybden very funny ← was funny?
17:51:24 <FireFly> well, because sandboxing is Hard™ :P
17:51:32 <moony> FireFly, zzo38 came up with the design, everything is inside the context
17:51:35 <moony> nothing is outside it
17:51:43 <ybden> moony: Actually, I would be interested to know just how much memory that consumed
17:51:45 <FireFly> I tried making something like that but couldn't secure it enough
17:51:53 <FireFly> I'll poke around when it's running again
17:51:53 <moony> ybden, all the memorize
17:52:01 <moony> it used _EVERYTHING_
17:52:15 <moony> nom nom nom on the ram
17:52:30 <ybden> Well, you know what happened last time you tried running a sandbox, moony
17:52:51 <moony> ybden, true enough
17:52:59 <moony> -pyc print "this is still unbroken"
17:53:00 <iczero> moony: what happened :P
17:53:16 <moony> ybden, you talking about hbot, aka 'lol lets not sandbox it and see what happens?' bot? :P
17:53:26 <moony> that was me being stupid
17:53:50 <moony> i'll leave linux sandboxes to HackEgo :P
17:55:10 <ybden> Hm, I still have yet to try writing a sandbox...
17:55:36 <moony> iczero, disable -js for now if you want to boot the bot again
17:56:52 <iczero> yeah i remember the introduction of typedarrays
17:57:26 <ybden> moony: fwiw, you can use ulimit to prevent it from consuming obscene amounts of memory hth
17:57:33 <FireFly> aww, I wanted to see if I could break out of the sandbox
17:57:51 <iczero> yeah we're too busy minecrafting sorry :P
17:58:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: node: not found
17:58:39 <FireFly> You can do fun stuff by throwing things and abusing toString and things anyway
17:59:08 <iczero> `fetch https://nodejs.org/dist/v7.2.1/node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
17:59:16 <HackEgo> 2016-12-07 17:58:38 URL:https://nodejs.org/dist/v7.2.1/node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz [10264624/10264624] -> "node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz" [1]
17:59:22 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
17:59:39 <iczero> `tar xvzf node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
17:59:40 <HackEgo> tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
17:59:51 <iczero> `tar xvz node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
17:59:52 <HackEgo> tar: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
18:00:49 <iczero> `tar xf node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:00:50 <HackEgo> tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
18:00:54 <iczero> `` tar xfnode-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:00:55 <HackEgo> tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
18:01:01 <iczero> `` tar -xf node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:01:06 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: 296 File size limit exceededtar -xf node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:01:19 <iczero> `tar -xf node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:01:21 <HackEgo> tar: node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz: Cannot open: No such file or directory \ tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
18:01:52 <iczero> `tar -xf node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:01:53 <HackEgo> tar: node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz: Cannot open: No such file or directory \ tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
18:02:16 <iczero> but but but....... >_>
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18:15:58 <\oren\> what's with people being unable to spell fascism correctly
18:17:18 <\oren\> it's "sc" pronounced as /ʃ/ not "c" pronounced as /s/
18:19:05 <\oren\> Merriam webster is begging people to look up something else before "fascism" becomes the word of the year
18:23:19 <moony> i'll be able to patch up the 'sandbox' in a bit.
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18:53:52 <moony> -js return new Uint32Array(9999999)
18:53:55 <otherbot> Childprocess timed out! No data returned.
18:54:52 <moony> its alive!!!!! muahahahahahahaa!
18:55:07 <otherbot> Childprocess timed out! No data returned.
18:55:43 * FireFly . o O ( sleep 3; echo 'Childprocess timed out! No data returned.' )
18:56:03 <moony> i just made a live patch to the sandbox script :P
18:56:27 <moony> it was due to me not taking into account the Copy+Paste needing a diffrent dir path
18:56:36 <moony> which crashed the sub
18:56:47 <moony> -js return new Uint32Array(9999999)
18:56:51 <otherbot> Childprocess timed out! No data returned.
18:57:14 <moony> have fun poking it
18:58:46 <moony> FireFly, have fun :D
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18:59:01 <FireFly> as you might see if you're spying
18:59:22 <moony> i hit the 'kill' x next to its process instead of clicking it to view logs
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19:00:09 <moony> there FireFly im a derp
19:01:18 <moony> FireFly, you can return to having fun ^_^
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19:11:25 <moony> FireFly managed to figure something out, so lucky him. Thanks FireFly for being nice and reporting it outright without me having to figure it out by simply lurking
19:16:11 <moony> well, the bug is hotpatched now.
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20:18:59 <ybden> Was that implying I didn't?
20:22:28 <moony> you found something too :P
20:23:12 <ybden> What was the bug this time?
20:24:16 <moony> its possible to cause an error to carry out and cause the child process to crash
20:24:51 <moony> ask FireFly, he found it :P
20:25:23 <FireFly> oh it was pretty silly, repeatedly throwing objects and abusing getters
20:26:10 <moony> it apparently had a cascading effect on the sandbox
20:26:29 <moony> resulting in silly errors
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21:38:56 <lambdabot> ybden said 20h 8m 58s ago: I believe it's called reverse psychology hth
21:39:06 <shachaf> ybden: i believe it's called being a jerk hth
21:43:40 <shachaf> int-e: petition to increase the maximum edit distance to 3 twh
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21:43:51 <lambdabot> poll provides: poll-list poll-show poll-add choice-add vote poll-result poll-close poll-remove
21:44:04 <\oren\> at least I now know to use for italics!
21:44:15 <shachaf> @poll-add maximum-edit-distance
21:44:15 <lambdabot> Added new poll: "maximum-edit-distance"
21:44:19 <\oren\> oh, on mac it is reverse video
21:44:21 <shachaf> @choice-add maximum-edit-distance 2
21:44:21 <lambdabot> New candidate "2", added to poll "maximum-edit-distance".
21:44:23 <shachaf> @choice-add maximum-edit-distance 3
21:44:23 <lambdabot> New candidate "3", added to poll "maximum-edit-distance".
21:44:29 <shachaf> @vote maximum-edit-distance 3
21:44:58 <shachaf> @poll-show maximum-edit-distance
21:45:05 <shachaf> @poll-result maximum-edit-distance
21:45:05 <lambdabot> Poll results for maximum-edit-distance (Open): 3=1, 2=0
21:45:16 <\oren\> @vote maximum-edit-distance 3
21:45:17 <shachaf> looks like 100% of the vote so far is for 3
21:46:10 <FireFly> or what is the argument for extending it?
21:46:18 <shachaf> Well, people might be very bad typists.
21:49:18 <\oren\> "I’m sitting in an apartment the likes of which nobody’s ever seen. And yet I represent the workers of the world." -Donald Trump
21:51:09 <\oren\> an american capitalist republican just dropped "workers of the world"...
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22:04:27 <moonheart08> -js throw new Error("!!!!oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom")
22:04:27 <otherbot> 'Error: !!!!oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom'
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23:00:16 <HackEgo> action//An action should always have an equal and opposite reaction, whenever thausible.
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23:51:04 <mad> oh man... going into extreme CISC instruction set design
23:51:31 <mad> coming up with a design for a cpu with only one instruction:
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23:57:02 <mad> generate [N] temporary registers; rename registers [X..Y]; do [M] memory operations each of which is a [load/store]; jump/cond/jumptoreg/jumpandlink to [Z]; do [W] sub-operations (if load/store: index; if alu/load: final or non-final write to that temp/register)
23:58:33 <mad> the idea is that all the sub-operations can happen out-of-order
00:00:07 <mad> also you can schedule the next operation right after
00:01:58 <mad> because it doesn't need multiple cycles to figure out how everything is renamed
00:02:26 <mad> like it can be scheduled in 1 cycle in theory even if you have dozens and dozens of sub operations
00:02:46 <mad> and you can transform RISC code into that form automatically
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00:04:28 <mad> FireFly : Well, OISC is very serial and can't be issued out of order fast :D
00:14:22 <boily> mad: mhellod! long time no see!
00:14:49 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, some internet memes are told in an alternative dialect of english displaying an SO word order. Interesting.
00:15:25 <mad> hppavilion[1] : japanese influence :D
00:15:58 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: It's what you when you the accidentally meme
00:17:33 * boily engrammatifies hppavilion[1]
00:23:05 <hppavilion[1]> In all seriousness, are there any actual languages that ever use word order not in {SOV, SVO, OSV, OVS, VSO, VOS}?
00:25:03 <mad> flexible word order
00:25:56 <mad> "SXOV" (mostly another way of saying V2 really)
00:26:56 <mad> some cases of VSO/VOS are kinda ambiguous for rather ergative languages (what's a S?)
00:27:17 <mad> same goes for OVS (hixkaryana is very ergative)... and I think OSV
00:29:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Camto * New user account
00:29:40 <mad> one case I've read about but can't remember where or how, where 'subject' and 'object' don't really mean anything (though the language has other ways of differentiating stuff)
00:30:01 <mad> (like a language that doesn't have case and no fixed word order)
00:31:38 <boily> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ac7zywlgp37v0u/IMG_20161207_191229.jpg?dl=0 ← tastes good
00:33:43 <\oren\> also, there are languages that don't use subject and object
00:34:01 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergative%E2%80%93absolutive_language
00:36:38 <\oren\> in other words, there are languages where "the boy jumped" and "the girl kissed the boy" use the same grammatical marking on "the boy"
00:46:06 <mad> yeah... it's a bit debatable tho
00:47:24 <mad> like I think ergative is more like using passive by default
00:48:14 <mad> "the girl was-kissed by-the-boy"
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00:52:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50466&oldid=50458 * Camto * (+219)
00:53:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50467&oldid=38017 * Camto * (+36)
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00:59:26 <oerjan> `addquote <doesthiswork> there are very few things more child friendly than breasts
00:59:41 <HackEgo> 1300) <doesthiswork> there are very few things more child friendly than breasts
01:01:01 * oerjan isn't quite sure if that's funny without the context
01:02:57 * oerjan twitches from triskaidekaphobia
01:03:08 <boily> hellørjan. “The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that it's all learned.” ― Bruce Ediger
01:03:27 * boily lightly mapoles oerjan thirteen times
01:03:29 <oerjan> helloily. would you like to handle the next hundred quotes or so
01:05:19 <boily> like, suddenly a hundred quotes at once?
01:05:46 <boily> it was quote 1300. no worries, I can handle that like the Groan Chicken Man that I am.
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01:09:27 <boily> is it common in other languages besides English and French to group numbers between 1000 and 1999 by hundreds? like 1988 is said “nineteen eighty eight” («dix-neuf cent quatre-vingt-huit»).
01:10:00 <alercah> it's common to do various random groupings
01:10:03 <alercah> I dunno about that specifically
01:10:10 <oerjan> boily: it's common in norwegian hth
01:10:22 <boily> well, you have the standard grouping, but then vernacular or dialectal variations?
01:11:01 <fizzie> I think "nineteen eighty eight" in English is also only for some things, like years. I don't think you say "nineteen eighty eight pounds" if something costs £1988.
01:11:30 <alercah> fizzie: you'd say "nineteen hundred eighty eight" in north america, but I've heard it's not common in europe
01:12:01 <fizzie> It's not a thing at all in Finnish, incidentally.
01:12:05 <oerjan> i think in norwegian it's more common if the number is round
01:12:43 <alercah> note that "eleven hundred thousand" would be very unusual though
01:12:49 <alercah> you'd just say one point one million
01:14:23 <boily> indeed, for money you'd use the normal way.
01:14:23 <fizzie> "nineteen hundred" sounds very odd in Finnish, it's always "thousand nine hundred".
01:15:08 <oerjan> actually i think ads with weird prices like 2990 tend to say "to ni nitti", without mentioning hundreds or thousands
01:15:21 <fizzie> (We don't have the "20th century" thing either, that's "1900-century" to us.)
01:15:47 <mad> 1988 most of the time is mille-neuf-cent-quatre-vingt-dix-huit
01:16:03 <mad> though it's kinda regional, the 'cent' way is more common in europe I think
01:16:37 <oerjan> "femten hundre kroner" soundly beats "ett tusen fem hundre kroner" at google.
01:17:22 <fizzie> oerjan: That ad thing is true too.
01:17:55 <boily> and you have those who say «octante» and «nonante». bletch.
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01:19:18 <fizzie> I was about to say that "mille-neuf-cent-quatre-vingt-dix-huit" sounds ridiculous, but I guess "tuhatyhdeksänsataakahdeksankymmentäkahdeksan" looks a bit imposing too.
01:19:48 <mad> it's written mille neuf cent quatre-vingt-dix-huit
01:21:05 <fizzie> Finnish does put all that together like that when it comes to writing out numbers. Though presumably in the majority of the cases you would have fallen back to using digits by that time.
01:21:16 <mad> and pronounced about mil neu cen qua-e-vin-dx-uit
01:22:26 <fizzie> In colloquial speech I guess also just "one nine eight eight" could come out.
01:24:59 <boily> /mɪl.nœs.sã.kät.ʁ̥ə.vɛ̃.d͡zɪs.ɥit/
01:30:45 <shachaf> It took me a long time to get used to "nineteen hundred" etc. in English.
01:30:55 <shachaf> Everything else is in thousands.
01:31:14 <shachaf> I think "twenty hundred" sounds odd even in English.
01:33:44 <fizzie> For years like 2250, I think it's just "the year twenty-two fifty", instead of twenty-two hundred fifty.
01:35:23 <fizzie> I picked 2250 because it's midway through when the Babylon 5 series takes place.
01:36:39 <fizzie> The Babylon 5 years were actually 2258-2262, not 2248-2252.
01:41:35 <fizzie> If I recall correctly, the Long Now Foundation uses five-digit years in all official documents.
01:43:22 <fizzie> They're finally building that clock, I guess.
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02:12:06 <boily> fungot: nocturnal nostril.
02:12:06 <fungot> boily: i have just consulted on the subject. it is
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04:40:03 <HackEgo> U+0281 LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL INVERTED R \ UTF-8: ca 81 UTF-16BE: 0281 Decimal: ʁ \ ʁ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0325 COMBINING RING BELOW \ UTF-8: cc a5 UTF-16BE: 0325 Decimal: ̥ \ ̥ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 220 (Below)
05:13:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50468&oldid=50464 * Ais523 * (+18) /* A */ +[[A Pear Tree]]; this is mostly a joke, but it ''is'' usable for programming, so…
05:21:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A Pear Tree]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50469 * Ais523 * (+1745) I made this, so I may as well post it…
05:22:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A Pear Tree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50470&oldid=50469 * Ais523 * (+22) it seems that writing in wikimarkup in one tab, Markdown in a second, and Perldoc in my editor all at once is not advisable…
05:22:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A Pear Tree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50471&oldid=50470 * Ais523 * (+11) it seems that writing in wikimarkup in one tab, Markdown in a second, and Perldoc in my editor all at once is not advisable…
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05:37:42 <izalove> https://www.youtube.com/user/theyearinreview
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06:50:09 <Jafet> how about a language named after An Oak Tree
06:52:37 <hppavilion[1]> Quantity Calculus is interesting. We should abuse it.
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07:08:27 <oerjan> . o O ( any advice using the word "should" is most likely wrong )
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07:14:31 <izalove> so we should stop using the word should?
07:31:04 <mad> "Je déteste le subjonctif, et le subjonctif passé, et l'imparfait, et le plus-que-parfait, et le conditionnel présent" reply: "Ça serait dommage que tu t'arrêtes et que tu aies manqué ces temps... si seulement tu avais su à quel point ils étaient beaux!"
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08:55:16 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I need a zv and an nr ligature so that I can atbash and rot13 my æs
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11:46:13 <HackEgo> footnote 1//May contain nuts⁸.
11:49:16 <HackEgo> Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
11:49:32 <int-e> fungot: why wouldn't I ask shachaf about puns?
11:49:32 <fungot> int-e: and for some reason i think " reverse" from r5rs normally optimized? i.e. blacks king moves, to construct responses based on random events when the black and gay people?
11:49:51 <boily> int-ello. did you just boltly pun my name?
11:49:56 <fungot> int-e: global name ' getitem' is not used for real-world applications" people :p)?
11:50:18 <boily> but shachaf isn't the Black King, he's the Queen of the Dawn.
11:52:53 <int-e> It wasn't bold, I just ran afowl of another awfowl pun. (punny chicken)
11:56:58 * boily *thwack* *thwack* *thwack* int-e. 1.0 FP.
12:23:28 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
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12:32:13 <fungot> FireFly: from what i have on my desktop as something like fnord the most popular of the fnord. for some reason
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12:49:26 <fungot> b_jonas: they dump a lot of boxing and unboxing stuff is costly.
12:53:24 <FireFly> fungot must fancy boxing day
12:53:24 <fungot> FireFly: if i use stuff from bar.scm, and bar.scm needs stuff from foo.scm and bar.scm with the module system command processor chapters.
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16:53:55 <b_jonas> For several interesting mathematical discoveries, there is a legend that Gauss has discovered it, but didn't bother to write it down and publish, because he thought it was too insignificant or trivial .
16:54:34 <b_jonas> Is there a mathematical discovery for which there definitely can't be such a legend, eg. because it follows from ZFC that Gauss couldn't have known about it?
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16:59:29 <Jafet> I have not heard any recent rumours about gauss solving the continuum hypothesis
17:00:26 <Phantom_Hoover> the answer is 'no' because the idea doesn't hold up to scrutiny
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18:11:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * NoOneIsHere * New user account
18:13:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50472&oldid=50466 * NoOneIsHere * (+145)
18:13:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50473&oldid=50468 * NoOneIsHere * (+15)
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18:18:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainInt]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50474 * NoOneIsHere * (+884) Created page with "==Introduction== BrainInt is a language invented by NoOneIsHere from Programming Puzzles & Code Golf. ==Basics== These are the current commands: # +, increment current cell #..."
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18:52:01 <\oren\> https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50474
18:52:37 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Maybe there should be a central page for BF derivatives and we'll bury them all there...
18:56:55 <\oren\> https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder968/500x/73763968.jpg
18:57:26 <\oren\> aside: I've never watched any star trek, I just like the bald guy
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19:49:51 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, are □ ▢ ○ distinguishable enough in most fonts to use together distinctly?
19:50:25 <hppavilion[1]> They are in neoletters, but \oren\ seems to have worked very hard to make the characters that are usually homoglyphs distinct so people can tell the difference
19:55:27 <Zarutian> there is no such shape as diamond. At least not in 2d. What you want probalby are rhombuses
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20:05:34 <shachaf> I think there is such a shape as diamond, because everyone knows what you mean when you say it.
20:06:11 <shachaf> That one is definitely a diamond.
20:10:27 <Jafet> most diamonds aren't diamond-shaped, naturally
20:10:36 <Jafet> (nor artificially, for that matter)
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20:56:00 <\oren\> https://www.facebook.com/livinginchinaironically/videos/1709099522735302/
20:56:21 <zzo38> Which subtypes in Magic: the Gathering are unique? I think that at least these ones are: Tower, Power-Plant, Mine, Fortification. Until Time Spiral, so was Kithkin, and until Kaladesh (Unhinged doesn't count), so was Hyena. Are there more?
20:56:25 <\oren\> Hayao Miyazaki is very insulted by these AIs
20:56:49 <zzo38> (I am counting only the type line, not characteristic-defining abilities or anything else)
20:56:50 <\oren\> "I strongly feel like this is an insult to life itself."
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21:07:44 <zzo38> Another subtype that is currently unique is Rabiah.
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21:49:56 <moonheart08> Sethbling made an Atari 2600 emulator in Minecraft. o-O
21:51:52 <izalove> whoa someone is starring a "project" of mine on github that's like 10 lines of code
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21:52:08 <izalove> and they opened an issue to add a license
21:52:22 <izalove> https://github.com/izabera/waiter/issues/1
21:55:22 <int-e> license it under GPL for great license:code ratio.
21:55:54 <izalove> i'll double license it under gpl2 and gpl3
21:56:13 <zzo38> Post as public domain
22:02:50 <ybden> izalove: why bother creating a variable for the siginfo_t?
22:03:04 <int-e> hmm I might actually complete snakebird this year
22:03:24 <izalove> ybden: as opposed to &(siginfo_t){ 0 } ?
22:03:47 <ybden> or, (siginfo_t[]){0}
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23:32:30 <int-e> in fact I finished it (snakebird) now... there is a final level in the center (with a space theme), so 53 in total.
23:32:56 <int-e> and some fireworks in the end... nothing too exciting.
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01:25:09 <Zarutian> `learn_append Zarutian He is also known for making rather long HackEgo wisdom entries.
01:25:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
02:09:02 <\oren\> I corrected some letters in my font
02:17:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/Zarutian
02:18:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/zarutian
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02:31:12 <hppavilion[1]> (I seem to remember that they're literally considered a case pair in Scandinavia)
02:31:41 <\oren\> clearly ^ is a capital 6
02:32:25 <Zarutian> \oren\: what kind of keycaps are you working from here?
02:32:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 1234567890-=: not found
02:33:24 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, is it { being capital [, } being capital ], and | being capital \?
02:33:35 * Zarutian use the one decided by Skýrslutæknifélag Íslands, usually called IS-QWERTY (mac)
02:34:26 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_646#National_variants
02:35:27 <\oren\> in norway {|} were æøå
02:39:52 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, Indian programmers sometimes call { and } "flower brackets". I like that.
02:41:29 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( It's weird to imagine properly unicoded XML, with ⟨tag⟩ body ⟨/tag⟩ )
02:44:29 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: which are capital and which are small is simply decided by where they're in ASCII hth
02:45:12 <hppavilion[1]> I'm so disappointed that it's just an artifact of alternative charactersets
02:46:30 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, is it Denmark or the Netherlands with all the dikes?
02:47:10 <Zarutian> because you have to UP to the beach
02:49:49 <oerjan> i don't think danish uses ü
02:50:25 <oerjan> maybe they have enough loanwords with it to have had it in the charset
02:51:21 <hppavilion[1]> OH! # is called "pound sign" because the british ascii variants (all three) mapped that codepoint to £! That explains it!
02:51:44 <Zarutian> its official name though is octothorpe
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03:24:51 <oerjan> hmph my internet has got lost for a period every evening lately
03:26:11 <oerjan> i found an ISP log message that told there was an error they were fixing... but they had declared it fixed before this last time.
03:27:12 <oerjan> (and it's not the same time every day)
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03:33:35 <Zarutian> oerjan: are you by any chance using WiFi?
03:34:16 <oerjan> yes, i am. but the connection to the router seems fine...
03:34:47 <oerjan> (on the other hand, the router claims throughout to have internet connection as well)
03:34:59 <Zarutian> oerjan: I had come across a similiar problem when I was working as an customer|network technician for an ISP. That instance turned out be caused by neighbours that had recently moved back from overseas and were using an tv extender.
03:35:32 <oerjan> Zarutian: the router is encrypted, though.
03:35:36 <Zarutian> that tv extender swamped the 2.4 GHz band
03:36:00 <oerjan> but it happens in the middle of the night (except the first time)
03:37:20 <oerjan> the laptop is clearly connected enough to notice when i turn on/off the router, and the router blinks when the laptop is reconnecting to it.
03:37:23 <Zarutian> you been running continous ping to your router and on your router you have been running continous ping to some server on the net?
03:38:37 <oerjan> Zarutian: the thing is, it disappears abruptly, for several minutes (yesterday more than an hour), the laptop claims there's connection to the router, but not the internet.
03:38:53 <Zarutian> and what did the router claim?
03:39:14 <oerjan> the router lights seemed fine.
03:39:59 <oerjan> although i was just assuming it had some connection to a point further on, but not onto the internet proper.
03:40:05 <Zarutian> your router has an DSL modem or is it connected to fiber optic box?
03:40:24 <oerjan> (the light supposedly signifies that it has been assigned an IP)
03:41:03 <oerjan> know. i haven't removed it from the wall since i moved here, presumably there's a connection behind it.
03:41:31 <Zarutian> where you plug the wall cable into the router does it say WAN or DSL?
03:42:09 <Zarutian> you mean you are using an router you do not know how connects to the 'Net?
03:42:47 <oerjan> well it's from the Get cable/broadband company.
03:43:04 <Zarutian> the one that eather goes to your in apartment fiber optic enddevice or the one that goes to the one in the basement
03:43:09 <oerjan> (there's a big cable decoder box which i've never opened.)
03:43:53 <oerjan> there is no visible cable. i suspect there's a socket behind the router.
03:44:02 <oerjan> which is fixed to the wall.
03:44:43 <Zarutian> do you have an administrative access to that router? via an web interface or some such?
03:47:48 <oerjan> i was just looking that up. which tells me i was wrong about which company it was from :P
03:48:11 <oerjan> (The big box has Get written on it, so i was assuming)
03:49:01 <oerjan> oh never mind, it redirects to get.
03:50:20 <oerjan> there is a web interface. maybe i'll try it next time it blows up.
03:50:52 <oerjan> Zarutian: it's fibre broadband, anyway.
03:51:59 <Zarutian> is it reachable on whatever IP your laptop says is the gateway? If it is then you are set, if you need to go through some my pages thing on Get then you might be SOL when it goes on the blitz again.
03:52:30 <Zarutian> wait you said you have two boxes? an big one afixed to the wall and then a router?
03:53:12 <oerjan> no, i have just the router. the other box is for cable tv, and i have never connected it, i don't have a tv.
03:53:29 <oerjan> the router is affixed to the wall.
03:53:46 <oerjan> it's got a power cable, but nothing else visible.
03:54:05 <Zarutian> if the big box doesnt get power does your net go out?
03:54:37 <oerjan> the big box is still in its original cardboard. i would be extremely surprised if it has any power.
03:56:03 <Zarutian> hmm... you live in a big apartment building? If so then your router is most likely connected via cat-5e eathernet cable to an fiber end device that is down in the basement or where ever comm mains come into the building.
03:56:05 <oerjan> if i weren't such a sloth i'd probably stow it in a cupboard.
03:56:42 <oerjan> Zarutian: that sounds like it. we're supposed to get an upgrade (and a new big box) soon...
03:58:12 <oerjan> (from 1 Mb to 50 Mb in and out [translated sic])
03:58:31 <Zarutian> oerjan: the setup I have is that the fiber optic is to the apartment and goes to an end device. To that device I connected my router with an eathernet cat5e.
04:00:24 <Zarutian> the end device is affixed to the wall, mainly to prevent damage to the optical fiber due to movement when dusting. The router is sitting in a shelf right by.
04:02:40 <oerjan> sounds a bit like the setup in my previous apartment, except that was via phone line i think.
04:02:48 <Zarutian> so, if this happen during the middle of the night then I recommend you go downstairs to wherever that fiber optic end device is and see if it has power. (These things invariable have power indicator leds)
04:03:09 <oerjan> i'm not sure i have access to there.
04:03:32 <oerjan> or well, i don't know where it is, for a start.
04:03:41 <oerjan> i guess i can look around.
04:03:41 <Zarutian> oh, yeah, you have supers, I forgot.
04:05:50 <Zarutian> oerjan: in the old settup did you have to connect your phone through a little dongle like device? if so then most likely you had DSL
04:08:54 <oerjan> there was a small splitter (although the phone part was not for me but for the landlady)
04:10:23 <oerjan> and then there were two devices, one probably dsl and one router. later the first was replaced and had enough connections that we scrapped the router.
04:11:05 <oerjan> oh and some wifi that we lost the password to :P
04:11:19 <oerjan> (so only the landlady could use it)
04:11:31 <Zarutian> propably the dsl thing got replaced with an router with built in dsl modem
04:12:04 <oerjan> i think there was always a router part, it just didn't have enough connections for all the inhabitants.
04:12:34 <Zarutian> ZyXel, Thomson iTouch, Sagem or Linksys.
04:12:49 <Zarutian> oh? Huge house that had many renters?
04:12:59 <oerjan> so there was a separate router for expansion (and also she dropped a tenant)
04:13:27 <oerjan> but we had just one room separate each
04:14:06 <oerjan> typical minimal student accommodation
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04:45:12 <HackEgo> U+FFFE - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf be UTF-16BE: fffe Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFE \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
04:45:34 <HackEgo> U+FFFF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf bf UTF-16BE: ffff Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
04:46:01 <HackEgo> U+0020 SPACE \ UTF-8: 20 UTF-16BE: 0020 Decimal:   \ \ Category: Zs (Separator, Space) \ Bidi: WS (Whitespace) \ \ U+FFFC OBJECT REPLACEMENT CHARACTER \ UTF-8: ef bf bc UTF-16BE: fffc Decimal:  \  \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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06:22:59 <\oren\> Vacuum welding seems like a really annoying problem to have
06:23:17 <\oren\> your nice new macbook is accidentally welded SHUT
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07:48:33 <|oren\> what should I add to my font next?
07:55:16 <|oren\> hmm, how about some more fancy mathematical symbols
08:01:41 <zzo38> Did you add the pieces of big Sigma (used on some DEC terminals)?
08:04:21 <zzo38> No, the one I mean is bigger than that.
08:05:17 <shachaf> How big do your integrals get?
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09:58:47 <Taneb> That is an integral part of unicode
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11:29:31 <int-e> fizzie: but where's the same thing for curly braces?
11:33:00 <FireFly> oh correction, you're supposed to use ⎪ to extend
11:33:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unidecoe: not found
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11:34:29 <int-e> FireFly: oh damn, it's "bracket" not "brace". that's how I missed it. thanks
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11:50:02 <fizzie> There's also the ⎰⎱ pair for making two-line ones.
11:50:43 <fizzie> "UPPER LEFT OR LOWER RIGHT CURLY BRACKET SECTION" and "UPPER RIGHT OR LOWER LEFT CURLY BRACKET SECTION".
11:51:46 <int-e> hmm. then is there also a ⎭ that extends to the bottom of the character cell, for even number of lines?
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12:23:31 <LKoen> fizzie: what about making an even number of lines bracket?
12:23:39 <LKoen> (but bigger than two)
12:26:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OneFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50475&oldid=50258 * Slnetaiga * (+126) Added implementation on Jake
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12:34:07 <fizzie> You're probably just out of luck if you need a curly one.
12:34:30 <fizzie> The square and round ones you can do, since there's no middle bit to worry about.
13:03:34 <Jafet> there's always the private use section
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18:02:18 <|oren\> hmm, maybe I should ask the unicode people about the curly brakcet problem
18:02:39 <zzo38> What is the problem?
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18:34:19 <lambdabot> CYVR 091832Z 10010KT 15SM FEW013 BKN019 OVC028 M01/M02 A2998 RMK SC2SC4SC2 VIS N 12SM SLP154
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19:14:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50476&oldid=50465 * Redstarcoder * (+285) /* Movement and execution */ Added v1.1 instructions
19:14:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50477&oldid=50476 * Redstarcoder * (+0) /* Movement and execution */
19:15:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50478&oldid=50477 * Redstarcoder * (+11) /* Movement and execution */
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19:25:11 <|oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym3HnjBxPsw
19:25:42 <|oren\> South Korean -> North Korean translator
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19:37:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50479&oldid=50478 * Redstarcoder * (+1027) /* Code execution */ Explained functions (call/ret)
19:40:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50480&oldid=50479 * Redstarcoder * (+135) /* Examples */
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21:14:15 <HackEgo> 1/2:epsilon//epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM) \ hppavilion1//higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed \ ist//An ist is an incomplete list.
21:14:21 <HackEgo> 2/2: \ sgtm//Sergeant Mustard \ llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch//Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch is a village in Wales.
21:14:49 <HackEgo> 1/7:160) Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ \ 202) <j-invariant> I need a new desktop background <Gregor> j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled) <j-invariant> uhrghoaudp \ 224) <Gregor> !bfjoust furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls htt
21:15:01 <HackEgo> 1/3:428) <monqy> beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 476) <monqy> i am out of all the fame loops <monqy> and the australien soap opera loops <monqy> so much loop / s omcuh \ 1028) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone \ 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was
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21:15:21 <HackEgo> 2/3:in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." \ 1258) <mauris> MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW \ 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity
21:15:37 <HackEgo> 3/3: / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
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21:35:02 <Zarutian> `learn_append Zarutian Take for instance this entry. It has a whole subentry just on Icelandic unnerver. Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own.
21:35:07 <HackEgo> Learned 'zarutian': You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more about ocaps than you can imagine. Possesses an Icelandic unnerver that ejects freezingly hot lava out of its business end. Bears an 'Authentic fakes provider'
21:37:03 <HackEgo> Zarutiän Zarutiän boil̈y boil̈y oerjän Zarutiän Zarutiän Zarutiän Zarutiän Zarutiän Zarutiän boil̈y boil̈y
21:37:14 <shachaf> isn't there a rule about not modifying your own wisdom entry
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21:40:26 <Zarutian> `le//rn long winded// This is an adjective phrase used to describe something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted to be more flowing, thereby allowing wind to pass it with less resistance.
21:40:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'long winded': This is an adjective phrase used to describe something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted to be more flowing, thereby allowing wind to pass it with less resistance.
21:41:01 <shachaf> weren't your wisdom privileges revoked once
21:41:44 <Zarutian> if so, then HackEgo hadnt got the memo, nor I.
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21:47:42 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
21:51:44 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
21:55:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'bf': bf See: brainfuck
21:58:16 <HackEgo> myname//myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother.
21:58:55 <HackEgo> porthello//Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
21:59:20 <HackEgo> braid theory//Braid theory is the extremely twisted theory of braids.
21:59:26 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
21:59:41 <HackEgo> Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
22:00:21 <HackEgo> tvtropes//We'll write about TVTropes here, we just have to finish these tabs first.
22:00:44 <HackEgo> 6439:2015-12-22 <boil̈y> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope wisdom/tvtropes \ 5808:2015-07-05 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope{s,} \ 5807:2015-07-05 <oerjän> le/rn tvtropes/We\'ll write about TVTropes here, we\'ll just have to finish these tabs first.
22:01:07 <shachaf> what's that boily edit about?
22:01:58 <|oren\> looks like oerjän moved it to tvtrope and boil̈y moved it back to tvtropes
22:02:02 <shachaf> @tell boily `dowg tvtropes
22:02:13 <shachaf> Both of the things you said are apparent from the dowg.
22:03:26 <int-e> . o O ( Roman troops had a half-life of 6.57 decimations. )
22:03:47 <int-e> or 6.58, rounding correctly.
22:07:10 <int-e> (If anybody cares where this came from, I was pondering `sled wisdom/tvtropes//s/finish/decimate/ but then I thought that decimation would be too slow.)
22:08:39 <HackEgo> File: `bin/slwd' \ Size: 53 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 671133 Links: 1 \ Access: (0755/-rwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-12-06 02:28:33.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2016-11-01 05:40:51.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2016-11-01 05:40:51.000000000 +0000
22:11:47 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
22:13:06 <fizzie> Maybe that tool could do with an -a.
22:14:32 <HackEgo> reflection:grep.-R.-a.ebud.--.`.`?.`? `?.^. ._ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ
ÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌ
ͨÌÌ´Í.¯\_(ã)_.!.?.??.¿.@.*.\.â.â¥.ê®.â¨.ã.â¾_.ð.ð.ð.áá¿.ÌÌÍÌÌÌͦÌÍͪÍ̼̾ͦͨÍ
ÍÍÌ®Í̸̳Ì̤ÌÌ¯ÌªÌ¸ÌªÌ±Ì£Ì ÌºÌ¹ÍÌ©ÌÍÍÍÍÌÍ̪̮ÌÌÌ£ÍÌªÍ Í¢Í¢Ò̴̢_Ì¿ÌÍ£ÌͣͪÍÍÌÌÍÌÌÍ«ÌÍÌ£
22:15:00 <fizzie> I was sort of expecting most matching "binary" files not to be all that binary.
22:17:56 <int-e> I don't get it, where is that garbage coming from...
22:19:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/grwp
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22:26:54 <wob_jonas> In today'shttp://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/accursed-discounts , do you have the feeling that the boy has probably heard of the legend of the Brazen bull, and that the father will soon be one of the people powering that car?
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22:32:19 <fizzie> `` ls -ld wisdom/reflection # yeah, it was crafty
22:32:24 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 18 Oct 28 18:38 wisdom/reflection -> /proc/self/cmdline
22:33:31 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
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00:18:11 <oerjan> hm now the internet is dog slow
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00:19:06 <oerjan> Zarutian: maybe your band flooding theory has something to it.
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00:21:32 <int-e> either way, it involves poo
00:24:36 <oerjan> speedtest.net says i have 0.74 Mbps download and 8.36 Mbps upload speed.
00:24:47 <shachaf> oerjan: what does fast.com say
00:24:52 <oerjan> i sense a backwards prioritization here...
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00:25:08 <shachaf> hmm, maybe fast.com only measures download
00:25:26 <int-e> ISPs *may* prioritize speed tests indeed.
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00:25:50 <shachaf> what does https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=speed+test say
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00:37:32 <fizzie> "Your Internet speed is very fast". Says who.
00:41:51 <oerjan> <|oren\> South Korean -> North Korean translator <-- i expected comedy and got an advertisment... somewhat interesting, though.
00:44:27 <fizzie> *<:) is the smiley for wearing one of those christmas elf hats.
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00:48:30 <HackEgo> This is an adjective phrase used to describe something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted to be more flowing, thereby allowing wind to pass it with less resistance.
00:48:53 <oerjan> `slwd long winded//s/ This/"long winded"/
00:48:55 <HackEgo> long winded//"long winded" is an adjective phrase used to describe something that has been long in the wind and has been slowly sculpted to be more flowing, thereby allowing wind to pass it with less resistance.
00:53:08 <oerjan> shachaf: i'd take away Zarutian's wisdom privileges if HackEgo supported finding the nick from inside the same command twh
00:58:09 <HackEgo> We'll write about TVTropes here, we just have to finish these tabs first.
00:58:17 <HackEgo> 6439:2015-12-22 <boil̈y> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope wisdom/tvtropes \ 5808:2015-07-05 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope{s,} \ 5807:2015-07-05 <oerjän> le/rn tvtropes/We\'ll write about TVTropes here, we\'ll just have to finish these tabs first.
00:58:33 <oerjan> there's a disturbing difference there...
00:58:45 <HackEgo> 6439:2015-12-22 <boil̈y> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope wisdom/tvtropes \ 5809:2015-07-05 <oerjän> le/rn tvtrope/We\'ll write about TVTropes here, we just have to finish these tabs first. \ 5808:2015-07-05 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope{s,}
00:59:36 <oerjan> `complain HackEgo's `mv doesn't move history like Wikipedia's does
00:59:38 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
01:01:30 <oerjan> `` sled share/Complaints.mp3//$s,Wikipedia,Mediawiki,
01:01:31 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `,'
01:02:50 <oerjan> hm i smell a quoting error
01:03:06 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
01:04:30 <oerjan> `` sled wisdom/testing//s,.,a$s.b,g
01:05:06 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ /bin/sed "$@" && if [[ $# == "3" && "/$1" == "/-i" ]]; then echo -n "$3//"; cat "$3"; fi
01:05:20 <fizzie> oerjan: I'd make that available in an environment variable if I thought that had any chance of ever getting merged in.
01:06:12 <oerjan> ok the "$@" should never change anything
01:06:56 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's,.,a$s.b,g' wisdom/testing
01:06:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/testing//a$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.b
01:08:31 <oerjan> `sled bin/sled//1i#!/bin/bash
01:08:33 <HackEgo> bin/sled//#!/bin/bash \ [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo 'usage: sled file//script'; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; [[ -f "$key" ]] || { echo 'Rosebud!'; exit 1; }; sed -i "$value" "$key" ;
01:09:15 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:10:23 <oerjan> `sled share/Complaints.mp3//$s,Wikipedia,Mediawiki,
01:10:26 <HackEgo> share/Complaints.mp3//Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint \ now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved \ The complaints above are not using periods properly. \ All of the complaints
01:10:45 <HackEgo> HackEgo's `mv doesn't move history like Mediawiki's does
01:11:14 <oerjan> `sled share/Complaints.mp3//$s,$,.,
01:11:16 <HackEgo> share/Complaints.mp3//Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint \ now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved \ The complaints above are not using periods properly. \ All of the complaints
01:11:26 <oerjan> pretty sure i complained about the periods in the first place
01:16:32 <HackEgo> post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze//Post-industrial semi-punk nekronoise ambient happy hardcore triphop shoegaze is the genre of the Autobahn album "Nagelbett" according to http://thedailywtf.com/articles/Yo-Ho%2c-Yo-Ho%2c-A-Pirates-Life-for-Lee .
01:16:35 <oerjan> <fizzie> I was sort of expecting most matching "binary" files not to be all that binary. <-- i think i checked when `grwp was made and there weren't any.
01:16:52 <HackEgo> obell//The obell is what we ring each time a new strip of the o webcomic is published.
01:17:19 <tswett_> So I'm creating this database query language. http://lpaste.net/349696
01:17:20 <Zarutian> is the o webcomic published that infrequently?
01:18:27 <oerjan> Zarutian: it is very variable, but there are usually weeks between.
01:19:40 <oerjan> (also the "o" is a joke based on `? olist)
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01:22:27 <tswett_> Zarutian: a prequel to SQL? That would make it...
01:22:46 <tswett_> I haven't been able to think of a pun yet.
01:24:48 <tswett_> Hey everyone. You can view this repository, right? https://bitbucket.org/tannerswett/laserdb
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01:27:38 <oerjan> <int-e> -- * <-- it seemed the simplest way to avoid it printing a directory prefix on everything
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02:29:13 <HackEgo> doesntthiswork? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:45:25 <HackEgo> responsibilities? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:56:49 <Zarutian> `learn EOL EOL stands for End Of Line. What THAT means is context sensitive.
02:56:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'eol': EOL EOL stands for End Of Line. What THAT means is context sensitive.
02:57:20 <Zarutian> `learn EOL stands for End Of Line. What THAT means is context sensitive.
02:57:26 <HackEgo> Relearned 'eol': EOL stands for End Of Line. What THAT means is context sensitive.
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02:59:29 <ybden> Surely not a sensible definition
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03:02:34 <mad> EOL "maybe \n maybe \r\n maybe \r if you have a 90's Mac"
03:05:32 <HackEgo> #esoteric:#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone. \ Binary file reflectio
03:05:45 <HackEgo> 649) <Gregor> elliott: Back in my day, I didn't have to walk with a cane, but I couldn't shake it at kids on my lawn either!
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03:10:16 <shachaf> `learn EOL stands for End Of Lawn. It's often found past the wabe. oerjan requests your presence there immediately.
03:10:20 <HackEgo> Relearned 'eol': EOL stands for End Of Lawn. It's often found past the wabe. oerjan requests your presence there immediately.
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03:15:28 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
03:15:40 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
03:16:09 <fizzie> `learn Eöl was called the Dark Elf; he was a great smith who dwelt in Nan Elmoth, and took Aredhel Turgon’s sister to wife; friend of the Dwarves; maker of the sword Anglachel (Gurthang); father of Maeglin; put to death in Gondolin.
03:16:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'eöl': Eöl was called the Dark Elf; he was a great smith who dwelt in Nan Elmoth, and took Aredhel Turgon’s sister to wife; friend of the Dwarves; maker of the sword Anglachel (Gurthang); father of Maeglin; put to death in Gondolin.
03:16:39 <hppavilion[1]> `slwd tanebventions: maths//s/modules/modules, Ð-modules/
03:16:48 <shachaf> EOL stands for Estonia OnLine
03:16:58 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
03:17:15 <shachaf> I don't think Ð-modules needs to be a tanebvention.
03:17:34 <shachaf> I mean, unless you have a good wisdom entry for it.
03:17:38 <shachaf> Otherwise it's just derivative.
03:17:46 <hppavilion[1]> I thought it would be fun. Also, I didn't realize D modules were a real thing.
03:17:59 <shachaf> Not only real, but invented by Taneb.
03:18:08 <shachaf> D-modules were the original Tanebvention.
03:19:05 <HackEgo> 1707:2013-01-24 <oerjän> fmt wisdom/d-modules >wisdom/d-module; rm wisdom/d-modules \ 1708:2013-01-24 <oerjän> sed -i -e \'1N\' -e \'s/\\n//\' wisdom/d-module \ 2703:2013-04-14 <Phantom_Hoovër> >>wisdom/d-module echo \' Possibly they are also a torus.\' \ 2704:2013-04-14 <shachäf> revert \ 5135:2014-11-16 <ellioẗt> find wisdom -type f -pr
03:19:26 <HackEgo> 1691:2013-01-24 <Phantom_Hoovër> learn D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ 1699:2013-01-24 <Phantom_Hoovër> echo >>wisdom/d-modules " Taneb invented them." \ 1707:2013-01-24 <oerjän> fmt wisdom/d-modules >wisdom/d-module; rm wisdom/d-modules \ 1717:2013-01-24 <Tanëb> learn D-Modules are simply modules in th
03:19:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I definitely caught that pun. I'm proud of myself.
03:20:02 <HackEgo> 1921:2013-01-31 <oerjän> mv wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention \ 3492:2013-08-27 <oerjän> mv wisdom/tanebvention{s,} \ 3508:2013-08-28 <boil̈y> cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention \ 4104:2013-11-30 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/torus,/torus, Stephen Wolfram,/\' wisdom/tanebvention \ 4127:2013-12-05 <FireFl̈y> sed -i \'s/modules/&, Chu s
03:20:24 <HackEgo> 1918:2013-01-31 <Tanëb> learn Tanebventions include D-modules and automatic squirrel feeders \ 1921:2013-01-31 <oerjän> mv wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention \ 3491:2013-08-27 <Tanëb> learn Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, and Go \ 3492:2013-08-27 <oerjän> mv wisdom/tanebvention{s,} \ 3507:2013-08-28 <Tane
03:20:39 <shachaf> `dowt automatic squirrel feeders
03:20:44 <HackEgo> 4107:2013-11-30 <Tanëb> echo "Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them" > wisdom/automatic\\ squirrel\\ feeders # i got that wrong didn\'t i \ 4113:2013-11-30 <oerjän> mv wisdom/"automatic squirrel feeder"{s,}
03:21:15 <shachaf> D-modules preceded the next Tanebvention by almost a year.
03:21:56 <shachaf> Taneb is cited on the Wikipedia page for D-modules.
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03:25:27 <shachaf> There's a famous song Taneb invented.
03:26:42 <shachaf> «Bad language or abuse, / I never, never use, / Whatever the emergency; Though "bother it" I may / Occasionally say, / I never use a big, big D»
03:26:56 <shachaf> I think that was before he invented D-modules, though.
03:27:27 <tswett_> `learn A squirrel is a small nut-harvesting unit frequently deployed in North America. They are popular due to their usefulness in distracting dogs.
03:27:31 <HackEgo> Learned 'squirrel': A squirrel is a small nut-harvesting unit frequently deployed in North America. They are popular due to their usefulness in distracting dogs.
03:27:59 <shachaf> In California, there are black squirrels.
03:28:04 <shachaf> I've never seen them anywhere else.
03:28:08 <shachaf> Apparently they're pretty rare.
03:28:40 <shachaf> "Though black squirrels are common or predominant in many areas of North America, their overall rarity (perhaps as few as 1 in 10,000)[4] has caused many towns, cities, colleges, and universities to take special pride in their populations of black squirrels."q
03:29:12 <shachaf> I guess they're not that uncommon.
03:29:26 <shachaf> Oops, I missed a / after the ;
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03:44:28 <oerjan> `slwd squirrel//s,in [^.]*/all over the world/
03:44:29 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 30: unterminated `s' command
03:44:36 <oerjan> `slwd squirrel//s/in [^.]*/all over the world/
03:44:40 <HackEgo> squirrel//A squirrel is a small nut-harvesting unit frequently deployed all over the world. They are popular due to their usefulness in distracting dogs.
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03:50:55 <HackEgo> automatic squirrel? ¯\(°_o)/¯
03:50:57 <shachaf> `? automatic squirrel feeder
03:50:59 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. hppavilion[1] uninvented them.
03:51:16 <shachaf> `dowg automatic squirrel feeder
03:51:29 <HackEgo> 9422:2016-10-24 <hppavilion[1̈]> slwd automatic squirrel feeder//s/$/ hppavilion[1] uninvented them./ \ 5137:2014-11-16 <shachäf> revert \ 5136:2014-11-16 <ellioẗt> find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -El \'(is|are) just\' | xargs -I\'{}\' rm \'{}\' \ 4114:2013-11-30 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/$/./\' wisdom/"automatic squirrel feeder" \ 411
03:51:58 <doesthiswork> People are messaging doesthiswork to check if their message worked
03:52:23 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder'
03:53:13 <shachaf> `` echo $'5137\n5136' >> share/scowrevs; sort share/scowrevs -o share/scowrevs
03:53:25 <HackEgo> 1000 \ 1001 \ 121 \ 122 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5136 \ 5137 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 770 \ 771 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:53:42 <shachaf> `` sort -n share/scowrevs -o share/scowrevs
03:54:11 <shachaf> `dowg automatic squirrel feeder
03:54:18 <HackEgo> 9916:2016-12-10 <shachäf> undo 9422 \ 9422:2016-10-24 <hppavilion[1̈]> slwd automatic squirrel feeder//s/$/ hppavilion[1] uninvented them./ \ 4114:2013-11-30 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/$/./\' wisdom/"automatic squirrel feeder" \ 4113:2013-11-30 <oerjän> mv wisdom/"automatic squirrel feeder"{s,}
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04:09:21 <oerjan> `mkx bin/addscowrevs//echo $@ | xargs -n 1 | sort - share/scowrevs -o share/scowrevs
04:10:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/share/scowrevs
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04:10:55 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:11:13 <oerjan> `mkx bin/addscowrevs//echo $@ | xargs -n 1 | sort -n - share/scowrevs -o share/scowrevs
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04:12:12 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
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04:13:06 <HackEgo> changeset: 9924:e65529928045 \ täg: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Sat Dec 10 04:11:32 2016 +0000 \ summary: <oerjän> revert \ \ changeset: 9923:5f9d92afc8d5 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sat Dec 10 04:10:43 2016 +0000 \ summary: <oerjän> addscowrevs 666 777 \ \ changeset: 9922:afe981e5dae2 \ user:
04:13:21 <shachaf> How do you see a revision, again?
04:13:53 <HackEgo> changeset: 666:6ace234a6432 \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Aug 20 09:43:10 2012 +0000 \ summary: <itidus21> pastelogs psyk
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04:24:23 <mad> on a cpu with customizable operations
04:24:36 <mad> what would a custom operation/opcode/instruction look like?
04:27:39 <zzo38> I did try to think of stuff like that
04:28:06 <mad> what did you end up with
04:30:02 <zzo38> I ended up with a separate "microcode ROM" and "microcode RAM", if you write into the microcode RAM then you can customize the operations with a kind of VLIW instructions which access the ALU, the external memory (one access per cycle), also every instruction contains a jump, and there is also a Muxcomp (see esolang wiki) in each instruction.
04:32:32 <zzo38> (I think some of these features are things that the VAX microcode has, too, although I came up with them independently.)
04:34:29 <mad> wouldn't most custom instructions be kinda serial though?
04:39:07 <zzo38> How do you mean by "kinda serial"?
04:44:01 <mad> well, what would a typical heavily used custom instruction look like?
04:44:27 <mad> like, one that appears in lots of performance-critical code
04:44:52 <mad> or even in very little code but that gets run tons and tons and bottlenecks everything else
04:45:56 <zzo38> I don't actually know, because the specification is hardly complete.
04:49:40 <mad> how about an opcode for doing linear interpolation, using the bottom 16 bits of some other register as interpolation factor?
04:50:47 <zzo38> Yes I suppose you might do that.
04:53:01 <mad> something like
04:53:02 <mad> macro LERP(rx, ry, rz, rdest, temp reg t0, temp reg t1)
04:53:02 <mad> sub t0, ry, rx
04:53:02 <mad> and t1, rz, $ffff
04:53:02 <mad> mul t0, t0, t1
04:53:02 <mad> sar t0, t0, #16
04:53:02 <mad> add rdest, t0, rx
04:54:17 <mad> which in C++ would be expressed as
04:55:37 <mad> inline int lerp(int rx, int ry, int rz) {return rx + (((ry - rx) * (rz & 0xffff)) >> 16);
04:58:03 <zzo38> Although what I have is VLIW and which you may be able to combine operations to improve the speed (but have to consider pipelining too; there is no pipeline stalling, so this may be one thing that can improve speed of custom microcode compared to normal instructions too)
05:00:24 <zzo38> Not all of the details are yet figured out.
05:01:03 <mad> well, I'm using lerp as an example because it doesn't map to VLIW in any obvious way
05:01:21 <mad> except that you can do the and $ffff step in parallel with the subtraction
05:01:38 <mad> but otherwise it's completely serial
05:01:49 <mad> sub -> mul.. -> sar -> add
05:04:14 <zzo38> Each of the microcode instructions includes both Muxcomp and ALU, and the bitwise operations can be done with the Muxcomp part. Lack of pipeline stalling might also improve the speed compared to not using custom microcodes, and another thing that would improve the speed is that it does not have to access the external memory to read each instruction separately since it is only a single external instruction rather than five.
05:08:08 <mad> ok but in this case, even if the multiply operation happens in 1 cycle (quite optimistic), it's going to take 4 cycles to execute
05:08:34 <mad> and the memory load/store unit is just going to sit there doing nothing
05:08:52 <mad> if you have 2 ALUs then your second one is doing nothing
05:14:20 <zzo38> Actually my design does not allow you to disable any of the units; each microcode cycle must run all units, although you can have the memory load/store unit to just read into a dummy register perhaps (maybe one which is a constant when read and has no effect when written). Yes there are concerns like what you say though, but it doesn't seem it can be improve much in a simple way. You may be able to compute (ry - rx) at the same time as (rz & 0xffff
05:15:14 <zzo38> And the memory load/store unit could read the next external instruction opcode byte while the other calculation are doing, so it doesn't have to do nothing.
05:16:49 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, what happens if someone proves P=NP contingent on the Riemann Hypothesis?
05:17:26 <hppavilion[1]> The Millennium Prize Problems get kind of convoluted at that point.
05:18:10 <zzo38> I don't know? But, I would just not ask for the prize if I proved any of them, in order to avoid such problem
05:19:15 <mad> zzo38 : what I mean in that case is that the memory unit would run a bunch of NOPs
05:19:25 <mad> and the second ALU would run a bunch of NOPS
05:19:44 <mad> and the muxcomp would run NOPs on the 3 last cycles
05:21:16 <mad> if the cpu has instruction cache the memory unit has nothing to do, it has something to do if it has to load the next instruction yes but that's not generally something you'll see in a fast cpu
05:24:28 <zzo38> They aren't actually NOPs, although that is effectively it, I suppose. The other possibility I could think of is if your program is using the result of the interpolation for specific purpose a lot in which case it might be possible to write the microcode program to take advantage of that somehow.
05:25:35 <zzo38> And for the reasons I have described it is still going to be faster (I don't know how much faster) than not using microcode.
05:26:54 <mad> wait, how is it going to be faster than not using microcode?
05:28:13 <zzo38> Because it doesn't have to read every instruction and because you can avoid pipeline stalling.
05:28:32 <mad> what about if you have an instruction cache
05:28:55 <mad> that outputs enough instructions on every cycle to keep your pipeline full
05:30:04 <mad> then you can simply have a larger, wider instruction cache rather than the microcode RAM
05:31:15 <mad> especially if it's a VLIW
05:31:45 <mad> if it's a VLIW you just need to output 1 instruction per cycle, all your instructions have to be aligned etc
05:32:16 <mad> so your instruction cache only has to read cache line blocks one after the other in order
05:32:39 <zzo38> That does change it, although my design uses no instruction cache or any other kind of implicit cache (you could still write microcode programs to cache stuff in microcode RAM in some cases where the cache is used in a suitable way; you would probably need self-modifying microcode to take advantage of this).
05:33:09 <zzo38> Although you could design a CPU using some of your ideas too I suppose.
05:33:29 <mad> well, instruction cache is the standard way of doing fast CPUs
05:33:54 <mad> like, in the order of things that make CPUs fast it's on step #4
05:34:50 <mad> (#1: 8bit, #2: 16bit, #3: 32bit, #4: instruction cache and data cache and pipelining, #5: 2 instructions per cycle (superscalar), #6: 3+ instructions per cycle out-of-order)
05:36:37 <mad> even a relatively simple step #4 CPU completely outclasses all the step #1-2-3 ones (which is where most non-RISC-non-x86 architectures have died)
05:37:10 <mad> (except 68000 which survived up to step #5-ish but never got to step #6)
05:41:16 <mad> this is also why VLIW has a hard time getting in the CPU market... it's really a step #5 type of system trying to compete with step #6
05:41:25 <mad> (though it works well for DSPs)
05:43:09 <zzo38> I can understand that, but I don't really like to add all of those sorts of complexity with cache misses and implicit caching and automatic reordering and whatever else, so reprogrammable microcode is a kind of alternative perhaps. Also, the VLIW in my design is only for the microcode; external instructions are not VLIW (this can provide improved code density, for one thing; it also allows the number of bits to be different).
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05:46:44 <zzo38> VAX, which has apparently has some similarities with my design (such as orthogonal instructions and reprogrammable VLIW microcode), has 1,183,600 transistors, according to User:Ian. (My design is not based on VAX in any way; it is entirely independent.)
05:47:21 <mad> how does VAX compare in IPC to ARM?
05:47:22 <zzo38> (My design is also not nearly as complicated as VAX.)
05:48:03 <zzo38> mad: I don't know.
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06:32:36 <|oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/KSP/GiantProbe.PNG <-- current task
06:33:12 <|oren\> I have to wait 1 and a hald hours for this thing to fire its engines
06:46:35 <oerjan> . o O ( does |oren\ dream of becoming a real rocket scientist )
06:52:27 <|oren\> oerjan: no, real rocket scientists don't have as much money to spend
06:53:37 <oerjan> . o O ( does |oren\ dream of becoming Elon Musk )
06:53:37 <|oren\> they can't buy 20 tons of xenon
06:54:51 <|oren\> the mission I'm carrying out is going to the equivalent of neptune in 3 years and going back
06:55:04 <oerjan> `learn Xenon is a noble gas element. It has been banned in most countries due to xenophobia.
06:55:09 <HackEgo> Learned 'xenon': Xenon is a noble gas element. It has been banned in most countries due to xenophobia.
06:55:10 <|oren\> with samles of its atmosphere
06:58:25 <|oren\> 30 minutes of thrusting left
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09:29:05 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: I'm pretty sure \oren\ used to use the nick "oren"
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09:29:40 <loren> it was me the whole time
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09:39:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50481&oldid=50473 * Slnetaiga * (+13) Added Voclex
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09:55:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Voclex]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50482 * Slnetaiga * (+1423) Initial
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09:58:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Voclex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50483&oldid=50482 * Slnetaiga * (+270)
09:58:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50484&oldid=50442 * Slnetaiga * (+13)
10:38:26 <ziaiza> `` od -six -solid -dildos -And -flaccid -boobs < /dev/null
10:38:51 <ziaiza> `` od -classic -biblical -diabolic -Anaconda < /dev/null
10:40:47 <ziaiza> `` od -Androids -fiscal -fiasco < /dev/null
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11:35:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50485&oldid=50467 * Slnetaiga * (-8) I'm see what Disa's DL webpage now moved to http://dl.disahome.me/ url, so i'm change it's.
11:36:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tiny]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50486&oldid=50461 * Ron.hudson * (+58) /* A plea */
11:36:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:DL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50487&oldid=45184 * Slnetaiga * (+114) /* Changing urls */ new section
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15:12:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50488&oldid=50459 * L3viathan * (+639) version 2.2
15:13:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OIL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50489&oldid=50488 * L3viathan * (+5) Malevolent Dictator For Life
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16:35:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello, world!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50490&oldid=46157 * Camto * (+1)
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17:35:48 <Zarutian_> say, is there an isolang like befunge or snobol but where the grid is also updated via cellular automata rules?
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17:56:31 <Zarutian> hmm.. anyone here heard of class of computability called 'primitive recursive functions'?
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17:59:01 <Zarutian> basically, only down counting loops are allowed as the primitive control flow construct.
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18:02:10 <int-e> Zarutian: why are you asking?
18:02:49 <Zarutian> int-e: I am asking because I am curious if there are any esolangs based on this kind of computability
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18:11:04 <int-e> Hmm, I still expected *something* or perhaps something based on the safe/unsafe argument distinction by Ballantoni and Cook (or some generalization to tiered recursion) but all I can find right away is Hofstadter's BlooP language.
18:11:10 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: the whole point of prf is not being tc.
18:11:57 <int-e> Well I guess there's Malbolge which isn't even powerful enough for primitive recursion, and a couple of other of that ilk (implementations of finite state machines)
18:12:17 <int-e> Malbolge just happens to be the most interesting one.
18:12:18 <Zarutian> one idea I had was to extend RIPSCRIP or NAPLPS with prf and event loop model.
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18:49:23 <lambdabot> CYVR 101810Z 08012KT 5SM -RA BR SCT008 BKN014 OVC028 01/01 A2984 RMK SF4SC2SC2 SLP105
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19:08:15 <HackEgo> Boundary Bay Airport (YDT, CZBB)
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20:11:18 <HackEgo> abbreviation//The abbreviation fad began in Boston in the summer of 1838 and spread to New York and New Orleans in 1839.
20:11:41 <HackEgo> swedish//Swedish is the language of fine cuisine.
20:11:50 <HackEgo> I die as I lived: beyond my means. \ -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
20:16:03 <int-e> HackEgo: I was better off not knowing about that abbreviation tidbit.
20:16:43 <int-e> (Seriously? K.G. for "know go" = "no go"?)
20:17:32 <int-e> `cwlprits abbreviation
20:18:06 <HackEgo> * Culus thinks we should go to trade shows and see how many people we \ can kill by throwing debian cds at them
20:19:31 <int-e> myname: google is your friend but in case you're too impatient: uggc://jjj.jbeqbevtvaf.bet/vaqrk.cuc/zber/436/
20:20:01 * int-e is feeling urycshy today.
20:20:42 <myname> you are worse than hp right now
20:21:28 <int-e> I kind of really like "urycshy" ... it's pronouncible.
20:21:55 <myname> as long as it means "like an asshole", i am okay with it
20:21:59 <Zarutian> is a reference to prickly seacreture?
20:22:51 <int-e> Zarutian: it could be but the etymology is entirely different
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21:22:04 <int-e> . o O ( The second hand on clocks is usually the third. )
21:24:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50491&oldid=50472 * Ivancr72 * (+343) ayy
21:24:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50492 * Ivancr72 * (+254) Created page with "Hi, I'm IvanCR72 and well, I like programming and learning. My favorite languages are Python, Batch and [[DL]]. I like esolangs because they're sometimes funny, hilarious and..."
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21:27:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50493&oldid=50492 * Ivancr72 * (+142)
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21:39:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50494 * Ivancr72 * (+553) Created page with "'''Price at & percent''' (also called ''Price at and percent'', ''Price at ampersand percent'' or ''$@&%'') is an esoteric programming language based on [[Brainfuck]], made by..."
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22:08:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50495&oldid=50494 * Ivancr72 * (-4)
22:12:09 <lambdabot> shachaf said 1d 10m 7s ago: `dowg tvtropes
22:12:28 <HackEgo> poutine//Poutine was Pouti and boily's sister until the tragic cheese accident.
22:12:40 <HackEgo> 6439:2015-12-22 <boil̈y> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope wisdom/tvtropes \ 5808:2015-07-05 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope{s,} \ 5807:2015-07-05 <oerjän> le/rn tvtropes/We\'ll write about TVTropes here, we\'ll just have to finish these tabs first.
22:15:11 <boily> @ask shachaf hellochaf. I don't see the issue?
22:17:47 <int-e> boily: shachaf was wondering why you renamed that file, I think
22:18:12 <int-e> though I'm not sure *why* they were wondering
22:20:38 <boily> int-ello. the thing is called tvtropes, so it should be wisdom/tvtropes, no?
22:21:20 <int-e> as I said, I don't know *why*
22:26:17 <shachaf> oerjan created it and then renamed it to tvtrope
22:26:48 <lambdabot> boily asked 11m 37s ago: hellochaf. I don't see the issue?
22:26:59 <HackEgo> We'll write about TVTropes here, we just have to finish these tabs first.
22:27:12 <int-e> I guess that's why oerjan renamed it
22:27:28 <boily> `` mv wisdom/tvtrope{s,}
22:27:51 <HackEgo> OLD="wisdom/$1"; [ -z "$1" ] && OLD="$(lastfiles)"; NEW="${OLD}s"; if [ -f "$NEW" ]; then echo "«${NEW}» already exists"; exit 1; fi; mv "$OLD" "$NEW" && echo "«${OLD}» -> «${NEW}»"
22:29:41 <shachaf> `learn whoops is a repluralizer.
22:29:45 <HackEgo> Learned 'whoop': whoops is a repluralizer.
22:29:55 <HackEgo> «wisdom/whoop» -> «wisdom/whoops»
22:30:24 <HackEgo> oerjän shachäf oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän
22:30:39 <int-e> . o O ( `le/rn whoop/The Big Whoop is an amusement park that is famous for its root beer. )
22:48:11 <HackEgo> boily//"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
22:48:26 <boily> that person sounds familiar...
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23:38:35 <HackEgo> fternoon//Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners.
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00:23:57 <boily> fungot: fungellot.
00:23:57 <fungot> boily: thanks for the help guys
00:24:05 <boily> fungot: always glad to help you.
00:24:05 <fungot> boily: let's try this again. sorry for the off-topicness),
00:24:15 <boily> fungot: when do you want to?
00:24:15 <fungot> boily: shinta pasted " why i like plt though. it sucks. they removed all the changes are commited in cvsroot, which is generally very well liked.
00:24:28 <boily> fungot: no, CVS isn't well-liked.
00:24:29 <fungot> boily: ( the acknowledgements, not as heavily optimizing as possible; mlton is a fnord bumped loop variable'?
00:37:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A Pear Tree]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50496&oldid=50471 * Ais523 * (+201) an obvious improvement
00:37:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A Pear Tree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50497&oldid=50496 * Ais523 * (-3) don't link the same file twice
00:42:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A Pear Tree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50498&oldid=50497 * Ais523 * (+53) I must really confine myself to fewer markup variants at once
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02:44:10 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
02:44:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b xa0!*@*$#fix_your_connection.
02:46:07 <oerjan> that's a strange quit/join cycle
02:47:12 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201$#fix_your_connection.
02:48:47 <oerjan> i'd forgotten about that one.
02:49:07 <oerjan> the ban list is too long
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03:15:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:society//Society's a platypus. \ freefull//FreeFull the Unpronounceable is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ fire//Fire, fire, everywhere, nor any drop to drink. \ pineapple//Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable. \ atriq//atriq
03:16:08 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_wisdoms
03:16:27 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=330 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
03:16:53 <HackEgo> bin/distort//#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
03:17:36 <shachaf> `1 for i in {1..100}; do for j in {0..9}; do echo -n $j; done; done
03:17:39 <HackEgo> 1/3:012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
03:17:43 <HackEgo> 2/3:678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
03:18:22 <shachaf> Hmm, but that was there to allow for a larger page number, right.
03:18:31 <shachaf> `1 for i in {1..10000}; do for j in {0..9}; do echo -n $j; done; done
03:18:40 <HackEgo> 1/298:012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
03:18:50 <HackEgo> 297/298:678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
03:18:52 <HackEgo> 298/298:2345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
03:19:03 <shachaf> Unfortunately this can't be tested in /msg.
03:24:52 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 28.609 1620 aerospike
03:24:52 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 3303.12473922689
03:25:38 <shachaf> You always post those things but no one knows what they mean.
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03:31:52 <\oren\> shachaf: it is a building aid for KSP
03:32:55 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 59.909 3780 aerospike
03:32:55 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 4019.76044244706
03:33:29 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 59.909 2160 aerospike
03:33:29 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 1704.95858909988
03:33:53 <shachaf> Does anyone else here do KSP?
03:41:14 <zzo38> I think it is a IRC script maybe?
03:42:39 <zzo38> Maybe in case other people want to make this calculation too? I don't know why. But, write a local program to do may also be possible
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03:55:37 <oerjan> <shachaf> Unfortunately this can't be tested in /msg. <-- i'm not convinced: the 350 cutoff is done by HackEgo, not irc.
03:56:44 <zzo38> Even if the cutoff is done by the server, you can try to change your name to nine characters if you are doing by private messages perhaps; I don't know if it help or not but it is something that could be tried
03:57:07 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, IRC could cut it off further.
03:57:17 <shachaf> Also I didn't know or remember that HackEgo has a separate cutoff.
03:57:39 <oerjan> shachaf: i've assumed the HackEgo cutoff is supposed to be conservative...
03:58:23 <shachaf> oerjan: feel free to fix it hth
03:58:43 <shachaf> i gotta hand it to to oerjan
03:58:51 <oerjan> it's not in my power to accept the PR.
04:00:18 <oerjan> also, the nick limit is something like 14 bytes.
04:01:13 <oerjan> hm HackEgo does not have reverse DNS
04:02:23 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'env \| paste'
04:02:23 <oerjan> oh actually it does, but the forward one is broken.
04:02:31 <oerjan> so the irc server ignores it.
04:02:34 <HackEgo> 8065:2016-05-15 <int-̈e> le/rn paste/"Paste" is a short story by Henry James. Its contents has been cut into pieces and distributed over numerous tin boxes on the World Wide Web, little pearls of wisdom buried among ordinary pastes. \ 6398:2015-12-17 <FireFl̈y> learn ARIN is the American Registry for Internet Numbers. Or a pastebin service; one o
04:02:42 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'env | paste'
04:03:00 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'set | paste'
04:03:25 <oerjan> shachaf: afaiu the irc server reverse lookups your ip, then checks if the result maps back to the same ip, and only then will it use the domain name rather than the ip.
04:03:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.29844
04:04:31 <oerjan> but since the reverse lookup is longer, it's probably best to use the ip...
04:04:53 <oerjan> (for line length cutoff purposes)
04:05:27 <oerjan> of course if it pointed to esolangs.org, that would be even better.
04:08:58 <HackEgo> bin/benvenuto \ bin/bienvenido \ bin/bienvenue
04:09:22 <HackEgo> bin/unidecode:#!/usr/bin/env python \ Binary file bin/ploki matches \ bin/frink:exec /hackenv/lib/frink -e "$@" \ bin/h:#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input perl -p \ Binary file bin/udcli matches \ bin/rainwords:#!/hackenv/bin/shebang_args_or_input python \ bin/raw-url:#!/usr/bin/env python \ bin/bf:echo -n "${ci#*!}" | { /hackenv/interps/egobf/sr
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04:10:15 <oerjan> `` rgrep 'env [|] paste' bin
04:10:28 * oerjan doesn't trust backslashes with regexps
04:11:07 <HackEgo> bin/pastequotes \ bin/pastenquotes \ bin/hlnp \ bin/paste \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/pastekarma
04:11:15 <oerjan> shachaf: weren't you looking for a command?
04:11:23 <shachaf> No, I was looking for a previous-made paste.
04:11:53 <shachaf> `` dowg | grep 'env | paste'
04:12:50 <oerjan> `` dowg | grep 'env \\| paste'
04:12:53 <shachaf> Apparently not very well, though.
04:13:06 <shachaf> oerjan: ' in bash has very simple escaping.
04:13:10 <oerjan> `` dowg | grep env | grep paste
04:13:32 <shachaf> Maybe dowg simply takes too long to run.
04:13:34 <oerjan> ok it wouldn't have helped.
04:13:37 <shachaf> `` dowg | head | grep 'env | paste'
04:13:54 <HackEgo> 9928:2016-12-10 <shachäf> whoops \ 9927:2016-12-10 <shachäf> learn whoops is a repluralizer. \ 9926:2016-12-10 <boil̈y> ` mv wisdom/tvtrope{s,} \ 9925:2016-12-10 <oerjän> learn Xenon is a noble gas element. It has been banned in most countries due to xenophobia. \ 9916:2016-12-10 <shachäf> undo 9422 \ 9915:2016-12-10 <oerjän> slwd squirr
04:14:12 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
04:14:41 <shachaf> `` doag | grep 'env | paste'
04:14:47 <HackEgo> 9930:2016-12-11 <shachäf> ` env | paste
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04:14:54 <shachaf> `` doag | grep 'set | paste'
04:15:07 <shachaf> The trouble is that dowg and doag are homonyms.
04:15:59 <shachaf> Where's the repository with the thing that actually runs the commands?
04:16:05 <shachaf> With mercurial and everything.
04:16:11 <shachaf> Why is everything such a mess to find?
04:16:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
04:22:51 <shachaf> `` sport /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox
04:22:53 <HackEgo> 1/3:#!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import os \ import sys \ import subprocess \ \ http_proxy = 'http://127.0.0.1:3128' \ path = '/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' \ lib = os.path.abspath('lib') \ \ subprocess.call( \ ['nice', '-n10', \ '/usr/bin/umlbox', \ '-R3128:127.0.0.1:3128', \ '--no-stdin',
04:23:02 <shachaf> See, http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/hg/ is just out of date.
04:25:03 <shachaf> There is https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/
04:25:42 <oerjan> well that's where fizzie sent his PRs.
04:26:58 <zzo38> Do you like this? Choose one or more-- ;; - Counter target spell. ;; - Counter target activated ability. ;; - Counter target triggered ability.
04:27:16 <zzo38> (Or maybe, change it to "choose two or more")
04:27:42 <shachaf> What would it mean if it said "two or more"?
04:28:30 <zzo38> It means if there are only spells on the stack, or only activated abilities on the stack, or only triggered abilities on the stack, then you can't cast this spell.
04:45:54 <shachaf> Has anyone tried contacting Gregor?
04:47:22 <HackEgo> abort: /hackenv/.hgignore: invalid pattern (relre): *
04:47:33 <HackEgo> a$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.b
04:47:46 <shachaf> `learn Testing is recommended.
04:47:48 <HackEgo> Relearned 'testing': Testing is recommended.
04:48:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
04:48:49 <HackEgo> abort: /hackenv/.hgignore: invalid pattern (relre): *
04:48:54 <shachaf> So a broken .hgignore completely breaks hg commands.
04:49:10 <oerjan> also, nothing gets into the repository.
04:49:25 <oerjan> (which is good, considering)
04:49:26 <shachaf> Right, because the committing commands are broken.
04:50:00 <oerjan> fizzie suggested enforcing the contents
04:50:55 <shachaf> `` echo '^tmp/' > .hgignore
04:51:21 <HackEgo> a$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.ba$s.b
04:51:56 <shachaf> `learn Testing oerjan's patience.
04:51:59 <HackEgo> Relearned 'testing': Testing oerjan's patience.
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05:00:38 <shachaf> `` echo '^wisdom/testing' >> .hgignore
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05:24:21 <HackEgo> The_Prospector: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
05:37:21 <Akaibu> anyone want to help me with https://github.com/pokeball99/Awesome_Esoteric ?
05:37:40 <Akaibu> don't know "exactly" how to go about this
05:37:51 <zzo38> You should need to explain what it is supposed to mean.
05:38:01 <zzo38> And then maybe someone might help you with such things
05:38:23 <Akaibu> eh, sorry, just figured everyone knew about the awsome repos
05:38:28 <Akaibu> https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome
05:38:45 <Akaibu> basicly these but for esoteric languages
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05:39:49 <zzo38> Ah, OK. Well, I still don't know the answer to you though
05:40:15 <zzo38> (But at least now I can know what it will mean)
05:41:36 <Akaibu> i need "awsome" stuff to add, not just a regurgitation of the esoteric wiki
05:43:55 <zzo38> Yes, I believe you
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06:25:45 <zzo38> Can any program written with some esolangs to run: UHS file, Internet Quiz Engine file, OASYS story file
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08:19:51 * impomatic_ managed to get banned from Al Zimmermann's Programming Contest! :-O
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09:28:16 <fizzie> @tell oerjan The lack of correct reverse DNS is even worse when it comes to emails sent from esolangs.org (some mail servers just bounce them right back), but it's not something I can fix without the CloudAtCost controls.
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10:43:13 <Taneb> Could I have an advice/assurance please
10:43:51 <Taneb> I'm meeting someone on Wednesday to discuss the possibility of me doing a PhD with him
10:45:52 <Taneb> Algebraic approaches to graph theory and functional programming
10:46:21 <izakitten> will that lead to more esoteric programming?
10:47:37 <Taneb> Everything I have done in the past 6 years has been carefully planned to maximise in the long term esoteric programming
10:54:40 <Taneb> shachaf, I don't know, I haven't tried one yet
10:55:23 <shachaf> Well, you might still have an idea.
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11:17:29 <izakitten> please tell me the name of that comment line you can add to files to set vim options
11:20:59 <shachaf> @google vim options line in file
11:21:00 <lambdabot> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3958416/embed-vim-settings-in-file
11:21:00 <lambdabot> Title: Embed vim settings in file - Stack Overflow
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14:23:14 <HackEgo> elendil//Elendil decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but then he changed his mind, saved his family only and founded a new empire in Middle-earth. He tried to make up for it later by leading the elf king Gil-Galad against Sauron.
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18:57:11 <fizzie> I think I complained about that Elendil factoid, but never remembered to fix it.
18:57:42 <fizzie> Because it was Elendil's dad who went to talk to Valar, and probably didn't change his mind (although he vanished, so it's hard to be sure).
18:58:32 <fizzie> "And Amandil, becoming aware of the purposes of the King, was dismayed and filled with a great dread -- he called his son, Elendil, and he said to him: ‘The days are dark, and there is no hope for Men, for the Faithful are few. Therefore I am minded to try that counsel which our forefather Eärendil took of old, to sail into the West, be there ban or no, and to speak to the Valar, even to ...
18:58:38 <fizzie> ... Manwë himself, if may be, and beseech his aid ere all is lost.’"
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18:59:32 <fizzie> "It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward, and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate."
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19:04:59 <fizzie> `slwd elendil//s/Elendil/Elendil's dad, Amandil,/;s/then he.*family only and/got lost. His family/;s/He tried.*/Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron./
19:05:21 <HackEgo> elendil//Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron.
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19:38:33 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil \ wisdom/hydrogen \ wisdom/angband \ wisdom/utumno \ wisdom/fat \ wisdom/adventure \ wisdom/bottom \ wisdom/semmelweis
19:40:37 <fizzie> I guess that's inconsistent now.
19:41:03 <HackEgo> elendil//Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron.
19:41:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/elendil//Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron.
19:41:40 <fizzie> My line break happened to be right at the place where it hid that.
19:41:51 <HackEgo> 1/4:adventure:You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17." \ angband:Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth,
19:42:13 <HackEgo> 7952:2016-05-07 <b_jonäs> slashlearn adventure/You\'re in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
19:42:55 <shachaf> Also I wonder why the imp single-spaces periods while the narrator double-spaces them.
19:43:02 <shachaf> `slwg adventure//s#\. #. #g
19:43:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwg: not found
19:43:14 <shachaf> `slwd adventure//s#\. #. #g
19:43:17 <HackEgo> adventure//You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puzzle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17."
19:43:23 <HackEgo> 2/4: they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel. \ bottom:Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, if not careful. There be balrogs. \ fat:Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, salt, and pizza. \ hydrogen:Hydrogen is what
19:43:32 <shachaf> b_jonas: Why do you make these wisdom entries?
19:44:03 <HackEgo> angband//Angband is Morgoth's second dungeon. When the valar finally defeated Morgoth, they were too lazy to go to for 100% completion, so some evil spirits in Angband survived for a sequel.
19:44:10 <HackEgo> bottom//Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, if not careful. There be balrogs.
19:44:17 <boily> `le/rn fat/Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, coffee and alcohol.
19:44:19 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
19:44:30 <boily> `le/rn fat//Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, coffee and alcohol.
19:44:33 <HackEgo> Relearned 'fat': Fats are one of the four basic classes of nutrients. The other three are sugars, coffee and alcohol.
19:45:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/hydrogen \ wisdom/math \ wisdom/utumno \ wisdom/wealhtheow \ wisdom/ambiguous \ wisdom/ghoul \ wisdom/delve \ wisdom/if \ wisdom/potatoes \ wisdom/o \ wisdom/rhenium \ wisdom/hydra \ wisdom/semmelweis \ wisdom/ᛁᚿ
19:45:24 <HackEgo> 3/4: stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal. \ Binary file reflection matches \ semmelweis:Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. \ utu
19:45:51 <HackEgo> Humans come from space. In particular, the part of space that has Earth in it.
19:46:07 <shachaf> `slwd hydrogen//s;\. ;. ;g
19:46:08 <int-e> . o O ( `` echo ' ' >> wisdom/space )
19:46:09 <HackEgo> hydrogen//Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal.
19:47:55 <boily> en:space is fr:«un espace» when talking about that Great Void between the Celestial Bodies, but fr:«une espace» when it's a typographical space. complete nonsense.
19:50:58 <shachaf> what is fr:«un defined behavior» twh
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19:54:25 <boily> hellochaf. «un comportement défini» hth
19:55:39 <int-e> it may be fr en ch
19:57:25 <boily> it's fr. and for the mathematically precise, at least fr_CA.
19:57:54 <boily> int-ello. what's a snakebird?
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20:02:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Goldfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50499&oldid=42685 * GermanyBoy * (-26) dead links are alive
20:07:12 <shachaf> boily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77d9xVIsoHc hth
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20:24:51 <wob_jonas> shachaf: it's from http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/984.html but I don't know why I had the spaces inconsistent
20:25:38 <shachaf> OK, but why is it in wisdom?
20:25:52 <shachaf> Which of the Four Criteria does it satisfy?
20:26:25 <shachaf> The point is, why is it there?
20:26:38 <shachaf> I don't understand b_jonas wisdoms.
20:26:39 <wob_jonas> dunno, it seemed funny and memorable
20:27:11 <wob_jonas> ah, you were specifically searching for double-spaced wisdoms again
20:28:44 <wob_jonas> and yes, the Elendil entry is factually inaccurate. I wrote it and some other ones only half understanding middle-earth mythology
20:28:59 <HackEgo> Elendil's dad, Amandil, decided to try to save Numenor from its awful end by sailing to the Undying Lands and appealing to the Valar, but got lost. His family founded a new empire in Middle-earth. Elendil himself later made the Last Alliance with the elf king Gil-Galad, against Sauron.
20:29:53 <wob_jonas> so, next weekend we're going to have both the Calesyta results and the new Rogue One film
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20:31:35 <wob_jonas> "en:space is fr:«un espace» when talking about that Great Void between the Celestial Bodies, but fr:«une espace» when it's a typographical space. complete nonsense."
20:32:11 <wob_jonas> I know there are a few words that have different meanings when masculine vs feminine, but still
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20:37:38 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I'd still like to hear about those four rules or N rules, because, even though I know my wisdom entries are strange, I'm not sure what wisdom entries should be like according to everyone else, and only trying to find out empirically
20:38:06 <shachaf> I made up the rules a few minutes ago.
20:38:12 <shachaf> But I think they probably exist informally.
20:38:20 <shachaf> But maybe there's one I don't know about.
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20:53:03 <boily> wellob_jellonas. even crazier: fr:«un orgue» → en:"musical organ" can be feminine when plural when talking about a single instrument.
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21:03:03 <wob_jonas> boily: um what? feminine when plural when?
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21:49:28 <boily> wob_jonas: if you're talking about one organ, you can use the plural for stylistic reasons. only, if you do, it becomes feminine.
21:51:01 <boily> . o O ( my hands smell like eggplant... )
21:55:40 <Zarutian> what is it called when you get fattigue from some peoples reoccuring over enthusianism about some subject*
21:57:22 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: dunno. you can try asking http://english.stackexchange.com , that site is quite good solving questions where you're looking for a word or phrase in English
21:58:32 <Zarutian> I do not have account on stackexchange and I am not going to go through the signup now.
21:58:55 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: you can ask questions anon, you just can't edit them then
21:59:35 <wob_jonas> you can also ask ##English here, but they are often not in a mood to help
22:19:28 <zzo38> Gatherer comments for World Queller mention choosing scheme. They say "fully aware it wouldn't work, but if your play group doesn't allow that, then you need a new play group". I disagree. You can choose "scheme", but nothing happens; schemes aren't permanents and can't be sacrificed (and it doesn't say to abandon anything, only to sacrifice). If your play group insists that the scheme should be abandoned in this case then you need a new play group
22:20:53 <zzo38> But, now I cn think of, make the card that says: All schemes are abandoned.
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22:27:05 <wob_jonas> zzo38: that would be quite a narrow card
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22:28:53 <zzo38> Yes, I think it is narrow card
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22:56:43 <wob_jonas> boily: the special card type for the Archenemy casual product
22:57:14 <wob_jonas> similar to a Plane, but one player controls all the schemes and other players team up against them
22:57:29 <boily> oh. very casual, then, eh?
22:58:50 <zzo38> A scheme is a nontraditional card type used in Archenemy, which is a format where there is one solo player vs a team of players; the solo player starts with 40 life points and has a scheme deck, and sets a scheme in motion (meaning making the top card of their scheme deck active) each turn.
22:59:32 <zzo38> I thought of an idea which is to make a variant of Archenemy where the players must bid on being the solo player, like with some other card games. But I am not quite sure how to do.
23:02:29 <wob_jonas> hmm... I had heard of some casual variant where players bid starting life total for some advantage
23:02:34 <boily> role selection mechanism à la Puerto Rico, where stuff that wasn't selected has bonus money for the next round?
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23:09:35 <zzo38> I thought maybe, whatever number you bid means that you can't set schems in motion until that many turns have passed and you must ante that many cards at random from your library when the game is started, and then when game ends your score is increased or decreased by the largest number of cards in the ante zone during the game (and then ownership changes end; in a team game they would have to anyways).
23:10:09 <zzo38> But then the exact bidding process and deck process and so on is different and I don't know.
23:31:45 <zzo38> Now I made a program to make a "hopalong" pattern, which is something has been describe in Scientific American
23:36:54 <zzo38> I should then write "ff-border" program which add a border with methods similar to virtual pixel methods of ImageMagick.
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23:39:32 <zzo38> For border widths I should use the syntax like that of CSS, but all units are pixels
23:40:35 <zzo38> Methods other than ImageMagick's virtual pixel methods can also be possible, such as 3D border.
23:41:07 <lambdabot> fizzie said 14h 12m 50s ago: The lack of correct reverse DNS is even worse when it comes to emails sent from esolangs.org (some mail servers just bounce them right back), but it's not something I
23:41:07 <lambdabot> can fix without the CloudAtCost controls.
23:46:32 <zzo38> You can also please to tell me any other suggestion for when I will make the ff-border program
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23:51:29 <oerjan> @tell fizzie would it help to declare the actual reverse dns a low-priority alternate MX for esolangs.org?
23:55:52 <oerjan> @tell fizzie hm probably not.
23:58:17 <fizzie> I guess that depends. It might help with some servers. But the one bounce I remember actually reading explicitly complained about the reverse DNS not having a matching forward DNS.
23:59:28 <fizzie> Which is a little silly, since it's a .cloudatcost.com name, but presumably they changed some configuration for the forward names, yet never updated the reverses.
23:59:31 <oerjan> another option might be to make the wiki email use the actual reverse DNS instead of esolangs.org?
00:00:03 <fizzie> Before it did that, other servers were complaining about the mismatch.
00:01:28 <oerjan> oh right. i was forgetting that there was no forward at all
00:02:46 <fizzie> Actually, seems that it might be using www2.codu.org as the mailname. Maybe. I don't really know about exim4 configuration, but I haven't wanted to change it to postfix, which I would actually understand.
00:03:27 <fizzie> That's a valid forward name for the machine, but doesn't match the reverse.
00:03:57 <fizzie> Not sure why it would be any better than esolangs.org though.
00:04:06 <fizzie> And I distinctly remember updating it from esolangs.org to something else.
00:04:11 <oerjan> "For servers that originate email this is a mandatory requirement." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-confirmed_reverse_DNS
00:04:35 <fizzie> Mandatory, schmandatory.
00:05:03 <oerjan> you can add a [citation needed] if you like :P
00:05:30 <fizzie> I could just have the wiki send emails via a different SMTP server.
00:06:17 <fizzie> For example the one that's actually receiving mail for esolangs.org.
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00:07:58 <oerjan> anyway, i was pointing out that HackEgo's ip is actually shorter than its reverse dns, so just as well that it doesn't use it in irc.
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00:11:25 <fizzie> Yes, "c1105889-5122" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
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00:36:14 <fizzie> Huh, there's a "last-minute" Scott Aaronson talk at work tomorrow.
00:49:29 <oerjan> <shachaf> i don't get it tdnh <-- it's an iwc quote hth
00:49:43 <shachaf> oerjan: Yes, that much was mentioned.
00:50:35 <oerjan> foiled by not reading till the end
00:55:26 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. fact: this entry is breaking the rules
00:57:48 <HackEgo> 9168:2016-10-05 <moonythedwar̈f> le/rn rules of wisdom/All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. fact: this entry is breaking the rules \ 9167:2016-10-05 <moonythedwar̈f> le/rn rules of wisdom/1. All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. 2. Insert more wisdom here
00:59:38 <oerjan> `le/rn rules of wisdom//Unless essential for the entry's humor, all wisdom entries should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced, and use proper capitalization and punctuation.
00:59:44 <HackEgo> Relearned 'rules of wisdom': Unless essential for the entry's humor, all wisdom entries should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced, and use proper capitalization and punctuation.
01:00:21 <oerjan> that's what i've been going by, so might as well write it up.
01:01:11 <oerjan> (i was about to write "include the key", then realized i was violating it as i spoke, and it would be awkward not to)
01:03:45 <shachaf> Is that what I need to do to be wise?
01:06:01 <oerjan> <shachaf> `` rgrep -l ' $' wisdom/ <-- grwp is less verbose hth
01:06:16 <oerjan> (by which i mean the output as well)
01:06:24 <shachaf> oerjan: I didn't remember whether grwp used -- or allowed flags.
01:06:29 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
01:09:14 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s/spaced/& with no space at the end/
01:09:18 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//Unless essential for the entry's humor, all wisdom entries should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation.
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02:29:12 <shachaf> `slwd rules of wisdom//s#:#: #; s#$# #; s#U#u#; s#all wisdom entries#they#
02:29:19 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation.
02:36:34 * oerjan embeds shachaf into the floor with the saucepan ===\__/
02:36:43 <shachaf> oerjan: that wisdom entry is fully compliant hth
02:38:08 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s:,:;:
02:38:11 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor; they should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation.
02:38:16 <oerjan> shachaf: i think you missed one hth
02:38:40 <shachaf> oerjan: that semicolon kind of hurts, though
02:39:17 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the part before the // is not included when you use `?
02:39:29 <shachaf> but it is on the previous line hth
02:40:20 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s,they,They,
02:40:26 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor; They should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation.
02:40:33 <oerjan> . o O ( am i overdoing this )
02:41:20 <shachaf> oerjan: I think all the modifications I made are plausible in themselves.
02:41:49 <shachaf> I.e. they're not incorrect, they're just preferences where the rules happen to choose a different preference.
02:42:34 <shachaf> To handle the "proper punctutation" bit, you might just eliminate the . at the end, for example.
02:42:46 <shachaf> `` grwp -l ' $' # what i meant to do earlier
02:42:56 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ \ ambiguous \ delve \ ghoul \ hydra \ hydrogen \ if \ math \ o \ potatoes \ reflection \ rhenium \ rules of wisdom \ semmelweis \ utumno \ wealhtheow
02:43:50 <hppavilion[1]> I think that entry should be about the four humours, but in the context of comedic humor
02:43:58 <HackEgo> 9949:2016-12-12 <oerjän> slwd rules of wisdom//s,they,They, \ 9948:2016-12-12 <oerjän> slwd rules of wisdom//s:,:;: \ 9947:2016-12-12 <shachäf> slwd rules of wisdom//s#:#: #; s#$# #; s#U#u#; s#all wisdom entries#they# \ 9946:2016-12-12 <oerjän> slwd rules of wisdom//s/spaced/& with no space at the end/ \ 9945:2016-12-12 <oerjän> le/rn rul
02:45:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
02:45:33 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s,[.],,
02:45:37 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
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02:47:47 * hppavilion[1] has started causally (and also casually) using interrobangs in text
02:48:01 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿg
02:48:05 <HackEgo> pi is a very round number.
02:48:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ‽: not found
02:49:01 <hppavilion[1]> Ham, on one hand I want `‽ to pipe ? through an allcapsifier, but otoh that's useless and shachaf will yell at me
02:49:14 <HackEgo> 8678:2016-07-01 <oerjän> revert 8668 \ 8677:2016-06-30 <oerjän> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/\xe1\x9b\x81\xe1\x9a\xbf \ 8111:2016-05-23 <b_jonäs> `` >>wisdom/\xe1\x9b\x81\xe1\x9a\xbf echo -n \'\xe1\x9a\xa6\xe1\x9b\x85\xe1\x9b\x8b\xe1\x9a\xb4\xe1\x9b\x85\xe1\x9a\xbf\xe1\x9a\xa6\xe1\x9b\x85, \xe1\x9b\x86\xe1\x9a\xa2\xe1\x9a\xa6\xe1\x9b
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02:49:34 <shachaf> Well, I don't think "useless" is the criterion for HackEgo.
02:50:00 <HackEgo> .hg_archival.txt .hgignore bin/ bin/ bin/ bin/culprits-ng bin/gs2.py bin/gs2c.py bin/learn_append2 bin/len.pl bin/revert bin/satan bin/wrlist canary emoticons/cat emoticons/drowning emoticons/flipbird emoticons/gaaan emoticons/gaan emoticons/kyaa emoticons/shrug emoticons/swatter emoticons/useless etc/luarocks/config.lua evil/313 factor/fac
02:50:16 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
02:50:46 <HackEgo> .hg_archival.txt .hgignore bin/ bin/ bin/ bin/culprits-ng bin/gs2.py bin/gs2c.py bin/learn_append2 bin/len.pl bin/revert bin/satan bin/wrlist canary emoticons/cat emoticons/drowning emoticons/flipbird emoticons/gaaan emoticons/gaan emoticons/kyaa emoticons/shrug emoticons/swatter emoticons/useless etc/luarocks/config.lua evil/313 factor/fac
02:51:02 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz
02:51:23 <shachaf> oerjan is a font of wisdom
02:52:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/%E1%9B%81%E1%9A%BF
02:53:19 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
02:53:36 <HackEgo> Learned 'neoletters':
02:54:01 <hppavilion[1]> Ham, that should say "Le/rned 'neoletters': ", should it not?
02:54:08 <hppavilion[1]> (for those uninitiated, is a snake.)
02:55:23 <oerjan> `` \? http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/%E1%9B%81%E1%9A%BF
02:55:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/%E1%9B%81%E1%9A%BF? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:56:50 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 8111 wisdom/ᛁᚿ
02:56:56 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿg
02:57:04 <oerjan> huh it does have that g
02:57:45 <HackEgo> 1/2:áá¿ áá¿á
á á ááá áá®á´á¢ááá á´á¦ááá
á¦á
á á´á
á á¦á
ááááá á¢ááá¦á áá´áá¦ááá¦áá áá¢ááá áá¿áá¦á á´ááá
á¿á¦áá á¦á
áá´á
á¿á¦á
, áá¢á¦áá á¢áááá®á¦, áá
áá
á¦á¦á
ááá¦á
á´á
á¿áá¦á¢á áá
02:57:55 <HackEgo> 2/2:ááá¿gá
á. á´á®á¦ á á
á´á. áá¦á¿á
ááá´á¿á¢ááá
á¯
02:58:19 <oerjan> and there it's again, so it's not just line cutoff problems.
03:02:44 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
03:03:42 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed -l 1 -- wisdom/ᛁᚿ
03:03:47 <HackEgo> changeset: 9071:581584df6d82 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Sep 25 20:17:31 2016 +0000 \ summary: <fizzie> revert 942e964c81c1
03:04:12 <shachaf> Aha, it's not using the scowrevs.
03:04:24 <shachaf> `` grep 9071 share/scowrevs
03:04:34 <oerjan> `` hlnp --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
03:04:57 <HackEgo> scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/'
03:05:03 <oerjan> `` hlnp --removed -l 1 -- wisdom/ᛁᚿ
03:05:08 <HackEgo> changeset: 8678:96d62948453c \ user: HackBot \ date: Fri Jul 01 07:59:24 2016 +0000 \ summary: <oerjän> revert 8668
03:05:52 <oerjan> `` hlnp --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- wisdom/ᛁᚿ
03:05:58 <HackEgo> wisdom/delve wisdom/elendil wisdom/fat wisdom/ghoul wisdom/hydrogen wisdom/if wisdom/math wisdom/o wisdom/rhenium wisdom/semmelweis wisdom/utumno wisdom/wealhtheow wisdom/ᛁᚿ
03:06:12 <oerjan> it's not broken, it's just a mass revert on top
03:06:42 <shachaf> I think the idea was to look at all the files in the revision, rather than just the requested file.
03:07:08 <shachaf> Really what you want is the history of the file contents.
03:12:11 <oerjan> @tell boily <hppavilion[1]> (for those uninitiated, is a snake.)
03:15:39 <oerjan> shachaf: for the history hth
03:15:47 <HackEgo> 121 \ 122 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 770 \ 771 \ 1000 \ 1001 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5136 \ 5137 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:15:49 <shachaf> doag gives a history of changes, not contents
03:16:32 <oerjan> "8678:2016-07-01 <oerjän> revert 8668" is a bit annoying
03:17:18 <oerjan> because there are really 10 revisions in there
03:18:17 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:18:36 <HackEgo> hlnp --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
03:18:59 <oerjan> `` hg log -r 8669:8678 --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n"
03:19:10 <HackEgo> 8669:2016-06-30 <oerjan> slwd hydrogen//s#\\s\\+$## \ 8670:2016-06-30 <oerjan> slwd elendil//s#\\s\\+$## \ 8671:2016-06-30 <oerjan> slwd elendil//s# \\+# #g \ 8672:2016-06-30 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/{math,utumno,wealtheow} \ 8673:2016-06-30 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/{math,utumno,wealhtheow} \ 8674:2016-06
03:19:46 <oerjan> `2 hg log -r 8669:8678 --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n"
03:19:54 <HackEgo> 2/3:\ 8674:2016-06-30 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/{fat,ghoul} \ 8675:2016-06-30 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/delve \ 8676:2016-06-30 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/{if,o,rhenium,semmelweis} \ 8677:2016-06-30 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/ \\+/ /g;s/ $//\' wisdom/\xe1\x9b\x81\xe1\x9a\xbf \ 8678:
03:20:02 <HackEgo> 3/3:2016-07-01 <oerjan> revert 8668
03:20:38 <oerjan> `addscowrevs 8669:8678
03:20:56 <HackEgo> 121 \ 122 \ 194 \ 195 \ 196 \ 770 \ 771 \ 1000 \ 1001 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 2113 \ 2114 \ 3341 \ 3342 \ 3343 \ 4530 \ 4531 \ 5136 \ 5137 \ 5642 \ 5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070 \ 9071 \ 9074 \ 9075
03:21:46 <HackEgo> 8111:2016-05-23 <b_jonäs> `` >>wisdom/\xe1\x9b\x81\xe1\x9a\xbf echo -n \'\xe1\x9a\xa6\xe1\x9b\x85\xe1\x9b\x8b\xe1\x9a\xb4\xe1\x9b\x85\xe1\x9a\xbf\xe1\x9a\xa6\xe1\x9b\x85, \xe1\x9b\x86\xe1\x9a\xa2\xe1\x9a\xa6\xe1\x9b\x86\xe1\x9b\x8b \xe1\x9a\xa2\xe1\x9b\x81\xe1\x9b\x86\xe1\x9b\x8f\xe1\x9a\xae\xe1\x9b\xa6, \xe1\x9b\x8f\xe1\x9b\x85 \xe1\x9b\x8f\xe1\
03:24:58 <oerjan> `` echo '121:122 194:196 770:771 1000:1001 1493 1497 2113:2114 3341:3343 4530:4531 5136:5137 5642:5643 5895 5897 8669:8678 9070:9071 9074:9075' | xargs -n 1 >share/scowrevs
03:25:12 <HackEgo> 121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493 \ 1497 \ 2113:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075
03:25:49 <HackEgo> changeset: 5897:a2ef2cbf7d09 \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Aug 13 11:11:20 2015 +0000 \ summary: <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec
03:26:54 <HackEgo> changeset: 5895:af386cb583b9 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Aug 12 23:39:15 2015 +0000 \ summary: <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm
03:27:11 <HackEgo> changeset: 5894:7c17d7d45d88 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Aug 12 23:38:58 2015 +0000 \ summary: <ais523> ls wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm
03:27:35 <oerjan> `` hg log -r accbc9c5c7ec
03:27:40 <HackEgo> changeset: 5893:accbc9c5c7ec \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Aug 10 18:43:45 2015 +0000 \ summary: <shachaf> addquote <olsner> I\'ve heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something
03:34:29 <oerjan> `sled share/scowrevs///1493/,+1c1493:1497
03:34:33 <HackEgo> share/scowrevs//121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493:1497 \ 2113:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075
03:35:42 <HackEgo> 9919:2016-12-10 <oerjän> mkx bin/addscowrevs//echo $@ | xargs -n 1 | sort - share/scowrevs -o share/scowrevs \ 9922:2016-12-10 <oerjän> mkx bin/addscowrevs//echo $@ | xargs -n 1 | sort -n - share/scowrevs -o share/scowrevs
03:36:50 <oerjan> `sled share/scowrevs//s,2113,2112,
03:36:54 <HackEgo> share/scowrevs//121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493:1497 \ 2112:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075
03:37:16 <oerjan> shachaf: i still have no idea what's the proper bracket for 194:196
03:37:25 <oerjan> a _lot_ happened around there.
03:37:52 <oerjan> `` hg log -r 194:196 --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n"
03:37:56 <HackEgo> 194:2012-04-08 <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ 195:2012-04-08 <shachaf> run rm -rf bin/* \ 196:2012-04-08 <shachaf> revert 0
03:38:16 <shachaf> what do you mean by bracket
03:38:27 <oerjan> shachaf: i mean that that obviously wasn't the end of it
03:38:45 <oerjan> and possible it should start all from 111
03:38:51 <shachaf> `` hg log -r 197:198 --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n"
03:38:55 <HackEgo> 197:2012-04-08 <shachaf> revert 110 \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjan> revert 193
03:39:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:40:44 <shachaf> shachaf reverted to 110, oerjan reverted to 193, elliott reverted [back to 110's state], and then it was just left that way?
03:41:11 <shachaf> So edits 111:192 were just lost?
03:42:08 <HackEgo> 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 192:2012-04-07 <oerjan̈_> run echo "The wiki logo is three limes because graue found a picture of three limes and liked it." >wisdom/logo
03:42:47 <oerjan> there was a lot of noise at those times...
03:43:05 <shachaf> so just replay 111:192 hth
03:49:09 <HackEgo> 121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493:1497 \ 2112:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5895 \ 5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075
03:49:49 <oerjan> 3341 is a funny revision. i don't think it was ever reverted, but it had mostly the effect of adding newlines to files missing it.
03:50:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/3341
03:51:29 <oerjan> although a few files with more than one line had them switched
03:52:05 <shachaf> Oh, that's how qdbfmt etc. got split apart.
03:52:13 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 142 Oct 28 18:38 wisdom/qdb
03:52:33 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 73 Oct 28 18:38 wisdom/quote \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 219 Oct 28 18:38 wisdom/quoteformat
03:53:42 <HackEgo> Piet is a really colorful programming language.
03:54:14 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language.
03:54:18 <HackEgo> Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.
03:54:57 <HackEgo> The high level stucture of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/.
03:55:24 <shachaf> i,i what would the w version of wc be called
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04:00:15 <HackEgo> 121:122 \ 194:196 \ 770:771 \ 1000:1001 \ 1493:1497 \ 2112:2114 \ 3341:3343 \ 4530:4531 \ 5136:5137 \ 5642:5643 \ 5894:5897 \ 8669:8678 \ 9070:9071 \ 9074:9075
04:06:43 <HackEgo> 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 193:2012-04-07 <oerjan̈_> run echo "XY problem is probably not what you are really after. Try asking about your real underlying problem instead." > 'wisdom/xy problem'
04:07:34 <HackEgo> hlnp --removed --template "{rev}:{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
04:08:24 <shachaf> oerjan: That wisdom entry was non-compliant anyway.
04:08:26 <oerjan> hm it may actually be dropping revisions in between
04:08:49 <shachaf> Yep, I checked logo earlier.
04:08:55 <HackEgo> 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 192:2012-04-07 <oerjan̈_> run echo "The wiki logo is three limes because graue found a picture of three limes and liked it." >wisdom/logo
04:09:27 <shachaf> I like the part where dowg isn't showing 194:196
04:09:33 <shachaf> So it looks like this is all you and elliott.
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04:12:42 <oerjan> i'd confused myself into thinking there was a bug
04:16:40 <oerjan> hm possibly it's actually best to keep it as 194:196, then.
04:17:37 <oerjan> because the rest never got properly reverted.
04:19:08 <oerjan> so they're unlikely to show up, _unless_ you happen to recreate a file that existed then, in which case it might be best to show it in history.
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05:49:44 <oerjan> this channel is insufficiently clogged
05:50:00 <oerjan> hppavillain[1]: is this your evil scheme
05:51:08 <oerjan> well you're the obvious culprit around these parts
05:58:54 <shachaf> you can aspire to be a cwlprit
06:04:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Self-modifying Puzzlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50500&oldid=22598 * Zzo38 * (+684) Some things I did not previously mention
06:05:08 <zzo38> I fixed the description for Self-modifying Puzzlang. Is it good enough now? If not, you can please to tell me what I have done wrong.
06:06:06 <oerjan> . o O ( this villain seems a bit slow )
06:06:23 <shachaf> oerjan: they can't all be cwlprits
06:07:15 <zzo38> I mean if it is good enough to specify exactly how it is supposed to be working.
07:09:49 <oerjan> it's a little awkward having to quibble with someone adding a mention of you to wikipedia...
07:10:02 <oerjan> (on the Malbolge page)
07:11:48 <oerjan> oh, i found another one (a prize i got)
07:13:48 <oerjan> oh and CHIQRSX9+ is mentioned with my name in the Czech one :P
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09:08:35 <izakitten> linkedin asks me if i know my first boyfriend
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12:00:10 <lambdabot> oerjan said 8h 47m 58s ago: <hppavilion[1]> (for those uninitiated, ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï ï is a snake.)
12:00:26 <HackEgo> prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
12:03:34 <boily> @ask oerjan hellørjan. am I missing something? it is very confuzzling → http://imgur.com/a/SV0VK
12:21:36 <boily> @ask \oren\ he\\oren\. can you thicken 斬 please twh
12:22:38 <int-e> boily: I'm wondering whether @tell messes up unicode
12:23:25 <int-e> though I rather doubt it... it should've been noticed
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12:26:14 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjagain. äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿ.
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17:16:02 <\oren\> although this could lead to new and horrifying problems like fuel and oxidizer leaking into your nuclear reactor's coolant cycle
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17:37:45 <lambdabot> boily asked 5h 16m 9s ago: he\\oren\. can you thicken 斬 please twh
17:41:05 <\oren\> there's 5 vertical lines in that character. with each vertical stripe needing 3 pixels, that' 15, plus the right hand extentions on the 斤... i'll give it a shot
17:44:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/cologneblue.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50501&oldid=50009 * Zzo38 * (+40) Make underscores in pre sections visible
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18:00:40 <\oren\> hmm I should work on my aternative C library tonight
18:02:00 <zzo38> How is it working?
18:10:28 <\oren\> it uses a new string type (struct STR), a new file type (struct INOU) and a new array type (struct ARR). these are part of a class system where all classes are derived from STR.
18:16:15 <\oren\> there will be several derived versions of ARR, including USTR,
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19:15:38 <iza> and gentiloni just sworn in
19:15:47 <iza> as a prime minister of italy
19:15:55 <iza> with a brand new set of ministers
19:16:08 <iza> so this is the 4th government in a row without elections
19:16:11 <iza> yay democracy
19:17:15 <\oren\> wut. italy wut yu doing.
19:17:24 <iza> it's a mess
19:18:10 <\oren\> what year did itly have its last general election?
19:19:42 <iza> that election confirmed renzi but he was nominated without any election
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20:23:10 <hppavilion[1]> Is there some reason it wouldn't make sense to talk about D-Vector Spaces, which are D-Modules but have to be vector spaces?
20:23:51 <hppavilion[1]> (So it has to be a Vector Space over a field of differential operators, which is where the problem shows up if there is one, I'm sure)
20:24:10 <shachaf> I don't think a field of differential operators makes sense?
20:24:17 <shachaf> But maybe you can come up with a meaning for it.
20:24:40 <shachaf> But typically the rings aren't commutative, I think.
20:25:30 <HackEgo> iza: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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20:30:27 <shachaf> Vector spaces are boring, anyway.
20:30:40 <hppavilion[1]> Are there algebraic structures that primarily use monadic functions? Possibly that describe Peano Arithmetic's 0, S0, SS0, etc.?
20:30:52 <shachaf> Well, maybe infinite-dimensional vector spaces are interesting?
20:31:13 <shachaf> i,i all functions are monadic
20:31:49 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, aren't functions over an infinite set infinite-dimensional vectors?
20:40:42 <hppavilion[1]> If functions are vectors, how does function composition (f . g) x = f (g x) correspond to euclidean vectors??
20:47:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah.
20:53:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BeerLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50502&oldid=50330 * Wat * (-65)
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21:27:24 <\oren\> uh... why is the dutch election on the Ides of March?
21:27:47 <\oren\> are they *trying* to have bad luck?
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21:29:40 <\oren\> i guess hert wilders will be in charge of the netherlands the way this is going
21:30:44 <\oren\> seriously who schedules an election on the Ides of March?
21:31:11 <wob_jonas> You know how platformer games are obligated to have an autoscrolling level and a water level, because everyone expects those tropes to be there, unless there's some really good excuse, despite that those levels also suck and people hate them?
21:31:34 <zzo38> I don't think that is true of all games, only a few
21:31:51 <zzo38> Nobody obligates it as far as I know
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21:32:02 <wob_jonas> There are ways to avoid them, eg. the entire Commander Keen episode 5 plays on a space stations, so no wide open spaces, underwater or autoscroller wouldn't make much sense there.
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21:33:43 <zzo38> Maybe they are obligated for Mario possibly but I think for other games they don't seem to be, because a lot of games do not have it.
21:34:45 <wob_jonas> The Lost Vikings is a good game, and it doesn't have either. The vikings can't swim (Erik learns to swim or gets a diving kit or something in the second game).
21:35:17 <wob_jonas> But it's not just mario games, there are long trope pages for both of these.
21:36:46 <zzo38> OK, I found it on All The Tropes Wiki. The list isn't extremely huge, but there are more than just Mario
21:37:07 <zzo38> Also, having a trope page for something does not obligate it in any way.
21:37:08 <\oren\> and iirc the ray man games too
21:37:18 <wob_jonas> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AutoScrollingLevel
21:37:49 <\oren\> jazz jackrabbit doesn't ahve any autoscroll afaik
21:39:01 <zzo38> Pharaoh's Tomb has some windy levels, but no autoscrolling. No platform game by Apogee that I have ever played has autoscrolling levels.
21:39:32 <wob_jonas> Jazz Jackrabbit has underwater level at least
21:39:55 <zzo38> OK. Which level is that anyways?
21:40:22 <zzo38> If you can make them good levels and want to add it to the game then it might be worth to add such thing otherwise I think is not worth it, just omit it.
21:40:29 <wob_jonas> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnderTheSea for underwater levels
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21:45:16 <wob_jonas> zzo38: planet Dreampipes in episode 5
21:46:09 <wob_jonas> even has buttons to raise or lower water level super quickly
21:46:39 <wob_jonas> (in-universe buttons Jazz presses, not controller buttons)
21:48:58 <wob_jonas> the big bad of the Jazz series is a turtle, and turtles like water, so there has to be such a level; but it's a bit strange for Jazz because Jazz is supposed to be fast (sort of like Sonic) and he can't go fast underwater
21:49:27 <wob_jonas> Zelda games and Super Metroid also have underwater parts
21:49:33 <shachaf> I remember Jazz Jackrabbit.
21:49:39 <zzo38> So, they can do to force Jazz to move more slowly by adding in such thing
21:49:58 <shachaf> In Cave Story, you slow down in water.
21:50:03 <shachaf> But it only happens when you touch the floor.
21:50:14 <shachaf> As long as you stay in the air you remain fast.
21:51:57 <wob_jonas> You can remain fast underwater in Super Metroid too (at least as fast as Samus normally is on land) with a suit.
21:52:05 <shachaf> My source for this information is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NYJA-JGJx0#t=30m19s
21:52:17 <shachaf> (In particular the English captions, which you have to turn on in the YouTube UI.)
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21:58:04 <zzo38> I think someone else on here has previously asked about virtual pixels in my Farbfeld Utilities. I am now writing the program ff-border which one purpose is to be used like virtual pixels for use with ff-convolve and ff-quantile and so on; it can also be used to add a border to the picture, though.
22:24:13 <fizzie> I don't remember that many autoscrolling levels from Sonic games either.
22:26:28 <fizzie> Oh, Sky Chase Zone. And some short sections.
22:26:48 <fizzie> Water levels aplenty, though.
22:28:28 <fizzie> I think Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure doesn't have either.
22:30:07 <zzo38> I know it doesn't have any
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22:44:24 <\oren\> I want to run a process as soon as another process ends
22:45:46 <\oren\> is there an equivalent to wait() in bash?
22:46:07 <\oren\> or rather to waitpid()
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22:48:32 <\oren\> and how do I run another program right when that process ends?
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22:50:16 <\oren\> hmm I think {wait PID; my command} & will work
22:50:21 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yes, bash has a wait command
22:50:48 <wob_jonas> you can identify them with process id or job id, there's a special variable to get the job id of the last started background job (with ampersands)
22:50:54 <wob_jonas> you just rarely use this interactively
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22:51:40 <shachaf> You can only wait for children, though.
22:52:06 <wob_jonas> \oren\: you can just use semicolon for that though, like (first command; second command)&
22:52:16 <\oren\> so I can't use it to wait for someone else's job?
22:52:50 <wob_jonas> if you want to wait for other stuff, you have to make that other stuff or its parent tell you
22:53:06 <\oren\> hmm maybe I can use lsof
22:53:15 <shachaf> You can ptrace it to become its parent.
22:53:19 <shachaf> Then you can do whatever you want.
22:54:27 <\oren\> I have a job that someone else started and I want to start my job as soon as it finishes
22:54:56 <wob_jonas> that's hard unless you arrange something with whoever started that job, or the job itself
22:55:24 <\oren\> i think I'll just poll it with lsof every 60 seconds
22:55:25 <wob_jonas> you can use a pipe or other solutions to find out when the other job ends, but you have to pre-arrange it
22:55:48 <\oren\> or maybe even ps aux | grep
22:56:13 <wob_jonas> (as in, that job and nobody else has pipe writer open, you have pipe reader open, when you get eof from pipe you know other job ended, works even if that job crashes)
22:57:26 <wob_jonas> I hate when people ps | grep when ps can already do almost everything you want with some command line options
22:57:35 <wob_jonas> (only the command-line options vary from unix to unix)
22:57:45 <wob_jonas> it can change format, can select particular processes
22:57:58 <wob_jonas> way easier than trying to parse the text output
22:58:12 <fizzie> Out of curiosity -- does the inode of /proc/$pid change when the pid gets reused for a new process?
22:58:30 <fizzie> I guess at least the timestamps change.
23:01:37 <shachaf> If only I could kill processes using /proc.
23:01:59 <shachaf> I could open the directory, check that it's the one I want, and then openat inside it.
23:02:09 <shachaf> Which woudl get rid of the annoying kill pid race.
23:02:56 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:03:09 <olsner> can't that still get a race between another process killing and you opening the /proc dir?
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23:04:19 <fizzie> olsner: I think the idea was, you openat things in the directory to determine the directory is for the process you wanted to kill.
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23:08:22 <\oren\> while ps p PID ; do echo still running ; sleep 30 ; done ; printf '\a'
23:09:03 <\oren\> it will alert me to start my stuff when the process ends
23:14:12 <\oren\> and what else would it be anyway?
23:14:34 <shachaf> I was thinking you could inotifywait /proc/pid
23:14:40 <shachaf> But I guess you don't get a notification.
23:14:50 <shachaf> Which makes some sense since nothing is actually written there.
23:16:21 <\oren\> oh I suppose it could ahve been BSD
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23:17:30 <\oren\> and ps p is a BSD style ps command too
23:20:07 <fizzie> shachaf: Here's a thought: maybe you could put in 1000 into oom_score_adj and then artificially causing an out-of-memory situation in the hopes of the OOM killer picking that particular process.
23:20:37 <shachaf> fizzie: I had that thought.
23:20:43 <shachaf> But I usually don't want to send a SIGKILL.
23:20:57 <\oren\> computing: is reactos POSIX?
23:21:57 <shachaf> Windows has a Linux system call emulation layer.
23:22:05 <shachaf> I don't know of anything like that in ReactOS.
23:23:02 <\oren\> yeah. modern windows is posix. how the world turns
23:23:21 <sam[0]> Can I run wine on windows
23:23:32 <shachaf> http://img.deusm.com/informationweek/2014/10/1316800/Microsoft_LOVES_Linux.jpg
23:24:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50503&oldid=50480 * Redstarcoder * (-4) /* Functions (call/ret) */
23:25:03 <sam[0]> Something something gnu
23:25:10 <int-e> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-scheme-spread-popcorn-time-ransomware-get-chance-of-free-decryption-key/ is clever. Abominable, but clever.
23:25:26 <sam[0]> The one bit that isn't included is the actual Linux kernel
23:26:52 <iza> did i disconnect?
23:27:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50504&oldid=50503 * Redstarcoder * (+122) /* Interpreters */ Added *><> online interpreter
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23:43:34 <ybden> iza: not to my knowledge
23:44:12 <iza> my bot died
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23:47:46 <\oren\> hooray, my terminal beeped and I started my job.
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00:06:22 <fizzie> Seen in an ad: "This X facing larger than average X apartment based within X House boasts stunning views from the X floor and also benefits from a spacious winter garden overlooking the X."
00:06:31 <fizzie> Sounds a little... generic.
00:08:09 <shachaf> http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37686909.html
00:08:26 <fizzie> It was actually a different place in rightmove.
00:08:44 <fizzie> Same estate agent, though.
00:09:05 <shachaf> Are you buying real estate?
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00:10:12 <shachaf> Do you think buying bay area real estate is a good idea?
00:10:30 <fizzie> I have absolutely no qualifications to give out investment advice.
00:10:35 <fizzie> I hear it's pretty expensive though?
00:11:03 <fizzie> Someone from our team just moved to thereabouts the other week.
00:11:09 <fizzie> Took their cat and all.
00:11:17 <shachaf> So is London real estate, going by the link above.
00:11:20 <fizzie> Not sure if they're buying or renting.
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00:13:32 <lambdabot> boily asked 12h 9m 58s ago: hellørjan. am I missing something? it is very confuzzling → http://imgur.com/a/SV0VK
00:13:32 <lambdabot> boily said 11h 47m 18s ago: hellørjagain. äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿ.
00:14:50 <oerjan> @tell boily your client probably doesn't recognize that it is utf-8, because of the weird private use chars which i was trying to warn you about.
00:14:59 <shachaf> Is buying Trondheim real estate a good idea?
00:15:33 <oerjan> quite probably, it is growing fast
00:15:56 <oerjan> although norway _does_ probably have a housing bubble, so...
00:16:03 <shachaf> Do the current prices not take that into account?
00:16:12 <shachaf> I don't know anything about the real estate market.
00:16:13 <fizzie> I've heard there's a tax trick you can do if you buy a newly constructed apartment in Finland.
00:16:17 <fizzie> That's probably a good idea.
00:16:39 <oerjan> i am not paying enough attention to tell you who is right about this hth
00:17:08 <shachaf> I did some small tax tricks this year but nothing really fancy.
00:17:20 <fizzie> I didn't quite catch the details. It's something to do with the thing where they sell the apartment at a price that doesn't cover all of it, and then you also get a share of the loan.
00:17:39 <fizzie> Then you can do some deductions.
00:18:10 <fizzie> http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/art-2000004881249.html hth
00:18:14 <shachaf> Why are capital gains tax rates so low?
00:19:58 <shachaf> Oh, it's higher in Finland than in Norway.
00:21:01 <shachaf> In the US the maximum is 20%, and even that's only on amounts over $415,050/year apparently.
00:21:03 <fizzie> And of course Finland reserves the right to tax me anything the UK doesn't.
00:21:32 <shachaf> On the other hand California will charge up to 13.3% on top of that. So I guess it works out similarly to Finland at high amounts.
00:21:42 <shachaf> But it's still much lower than income tax.
00:22:04 <fizzie> In Finland it's a non-progressive 34% with no allowances, if I recall correctly.
00:22:23 <fizzie> No matter if it's your one euro bank account interest, or what.
00:22:40 <shachaf> Interest is taxed as capital gains?
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00:23:30 <fizzie> I think it's actually slightly different, it's a 30% "lähdevero", I don't know what that is in English.
00:24:12 <fizzie> Some special kind of interest get taxed as capital gains. Or something like that.
00:24:15 <fizzie> It's all so complicated.
00:24:15 <shachaf> "Withholding tax is levied in Finland for longer than six months from receiving incoming alien force from Finland."
00:24:52 <oerjan> huh, i was right. i saw a car plate starting with EK197 today, and thought "that means we must be just about rounding 100000 electric cars in norway"
00:25:37 <oerjan> googled it, and the news said it was passed today.
00:25:58 <shachaf> https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/13/norway-4th-country-hit-100000-electric-car-sales/ says it was in May?
00:26:32 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway says "Registrations of light-duty plug-in electric vehicles in Norway passed the 100,000 unit milestone in April 2016.[20][21]"
00:26:40 <shachaf> Anyway, that's a lot of cars.
00:27:10 <oerjan> hm they must be counting slightly differently.
00:29:47 <fizzie> Maybe it's total sold/registered cars vs. cars registered at a given time.
00:31:11 <fizzie> From what I've heard, Finland's lagging a whole lot behind when it comes to these electric thingamajiggers.
00:31:48 <shachaf> fizzie: why don't you produce some car-shaped ascii art over in that other channel hth
00:32:02 <fizzie> shachaf: I'd get mugged, I think.
00:32:23 <fizzie> I already saw that 'evilpatterns' thing.
00:32:39 <shachaf> Oh, you looked at the code.
00:32:44 <shachaf> Are you going to submit a patch?
00:33:28 <fizzie> I'm not sure I'm artistic enough. I left open tabs for the repository and a picture of an Eurostar train, I think that's enough.
00:33:33 <fizzie> I'll clean them up in a year or so.
00:34:31 <hppavilion[1]> Conditional proof of q given p: A proof that p -> q; Contingent proof of q given p: A proof that p <-> q
00:35:26 <fizzie> Wikipedia "Electric car use by country" article says there were "about 2250" plug-in electric cars on "Finish" roads as of October 2016.
00:37:38 <shachaf> Are Finns good at driving in snowy and icy conditions?
00:38:17 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Well, the entirety of Fennoscandia is pretty snowy and icy most of the time, so I doubt they'd even give you a license if you couldn't drive in it
00:38:39 <fizzie> I think relatively speaking, allegedly, yes.
00:39:00 <shachaf> Are you good at driving in snowy and icy conditions?
00:39:35 <fizzie> At least a practical session on a slicky surface is a mandatory part of the driver's license education.
00:40:03 <shachaf> maybe fizzie can HireFly to draw an ascii art eurostar train
00:40:04 <FireFly> that is the case here too, and apparently it is also very fun to slide around with the car
00:40:14 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: I've argued that, here in Alaska, there should be two levels of driver's license (well, aside from all the other versions for buses and motorcycles and big rigs and such)
00:40:47 <shachaf> Here there aren't even different levels of driving license for manual and automatic cars.
00:40:56 <hppavilion[1]> A Summer License and a General License, where the Summer License is invalid in Winter whereas a General License applies year-round
00:40:57 <fizzie> I vaguely recall some sort of a downhill track with things you had to swerve past.
00:42:15 <shachaf> In many places you can get an automatic-only license.
00:43:14 <shachaf> Well, there are no manual cars in the US.
00:43:35 <fizzie> I don't think I've ever driven a "proper" automatic transmission car. I did rent one of those Smart cars which had the poor man's variant, where the car shifts on its own, though.
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00:44:40 <shachaf> fizzie: What's the difference between that and proper automatic transmission?
00:44:53 <fizzie> "A semi-automatic transmission (SAT) (also known as a clutchless manual transmission, automated manual transmission, trigger shift, flappy-paddle gear shift, or paddle-shift gearbox) --"
00:44:58 <fizzie> shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission hth
00:45:39 <shachaf> So you still need to shift gears.
00:45:41 <hppavilion[1]> `learn Svalbard is the place where Norway keeps the seeds for its pseudo-RNGs so that they can recover their language if it is ever lost.
00:45:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'svalbard': Svalbard is the place where Norway keeps the seeds for its pseudo-RNGs so that they can recover their language if it is ever lost.
00:45:55 <fizzie> Well, no, it also has automatics to decide to execute a shift.
00:46:04 <fizzie> "-- execute gear shifts on input from the driver or by a computer."
00:46:06 <shachaf> I don't see the humour of that wisdom entry.
00:46:39 <shachaf> So what's the practical difference in that case?
00:47:14 <fizzie> shachaf: See the "Comparison to other automated transmissions" section, especially the "despite superficial similarity" paragraph hth hand
00:50:10 <shachaf> Do you think £1,100,000 is a good price for a 2-bedroom apartment in that part of London?
00:52:10 <fizzie> It sounds a little much.
00:52:19 <fizzie> But the Battersea Power Station is probably quite trendy.
00:52:32 <fizzie> I heard Apple's going to build their London engineering office there.
00:52:49 <fizzie> Or maybe a more general UK HQ, I don't know.
00:52:52 <fizzie> Apple something, anyway.
00:53:05 <fizzie> "The technology company has agreed to take 500,000 sq ft of office space across six floors in the power station’s central boiler house. It will move 1,400 Apple employees into the building in 2021 from its eight other London offices."
01:00:06 <oerjan> `learn Svalbard is the place where Norway keeps the Global Seed Vault, so that the world's PRNGs can be reseeded in case of a civilization-threatening disaster.
01:00:15 <HackEgo> Relearned 'svalbard': Svalbard is the place where Norway keeps the Global Seed Vault, so that the world's PRNGs can be reseeded in case of a civilization-threatening disaster.
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01:16:14 <oerjan> @tell boily Actually, it looks like it didn't cope with the trip through lambdabot.
01:20:51 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> boily: I'm wondering whether @tell messes up unicode <-- it messed up that particular message. as even the original didn't show up as a snake for me, i'll have to defer to hppavilion[1] on it.
01:22:38 <oerjan> `unidecode
01:22:44 <HackEgo> U+F80D - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef a0 8d UTF-16BE: f80d Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+F80D \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+F80E - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef a0 8e UTF-16BE: f80e Decimal:  \ () \ Uppercase: U+F80E \ Categ
01:24:37 <HackEgo> [U+65AC CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-65AC]
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01:26:55 <oerjan> `unidecode � �� �� �� �
01:26:57 <HackEgo> [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER]
01:29:05 <fungot> 239 160 141 239 160 142 239 160 142 239 160 142
01:29:38 <oerjan> @tell int-e oh. i think it may be our friend byte no. 160 again.
01:30:51 <oerjan> @tell int-e all the chars hppavilion[1] used start have the bytes 239 160 + one more.
01:31:18 <oerjan> i start cannot edit my own start line apparently
01:33:46 <oerjan> somehow that's still different from what boily saw
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01:36:28 <oerjan> @tell int-e so they get destroyed by the use of unwords . words or what it was.
01:41:41 <oerjan> @tell boily lambdabot @tell only messes up utf-8 chars containing the byte 160 (because of the stupid fact it's the only character 128-255 that's a unicode space, and lambdabot at one point treats the bytes are chars when reformatting). it's a known bug which i forgot hadn't been fixed.
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02:46:25 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ <\oren\> uh... why is the dutch election on the Ides of March? <-- logically it's a very good day for the senate to be closed hth
02:48:11 <oerjan> @tell \oren\ never mind, that's the part they're _not_ reelecting, it seems.
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03:29:31 <zzo38> For use with cgophserv I also made up a program "gopherhurl" which is used when you want to add a link to a protocol other than gopher, telnet, or phonebook. (For example, a HTTP link)
03:32:52 <zzo38> How to add support for new picture formats to Firefox by extensions?
03:34:28 <zzo38> (I want to add support for XBM and XPM formats)
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03:35:56 <hppavilion[1]> My father just said "No man is an ø" (ø = island in Danish)
03:39:22 <oerjan> especially, no man is Iceland
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03:45:39 <Jafet> apparently post-correspondence using 3×3 matrices is undecidable: https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.6700
03:47:56 <Jafet> “The matrix mortality problem is, given a set of d×d integer matrices, decide if the zero matrix can be expressed as a product”
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03:54:02 <zzo38> Now I added a program into Farbfeld Utilities to make a chess pattern.
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06:15:01 <hppavilion[0]> @tell \oren\ Maybe yꙮu shꙮuld just make ꙮ the default glyph fꙮr 'o' in neꙮletters
06:23:33 <Jafet> `unicode monocular o
06:23:43 <HackEgo> U+A668 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER MONOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 a8 UTF-16BE: a668 Decimal: Ꙩ \ Ꙩ (ꙩ) \ Lowercase: U+A669 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+A669 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER MONOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 a9 UTF-16BE: a669 Decimal: ꙩ \ ꙩ (Ꙩ) \ Uppercase: U+A668 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowerc
06:23:50 <Jafet> `unicode binocular o
06:23:53 <HackEgo> U+A66A CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER BINOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 aa UTF-16BE: a66a Decimal: Ꙫ \ Ꙫ (ꙫ) \ Lowercase: U+A66B \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+A66B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BINOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 ab UTF-16BE: a66b Decimal: ꙫ \ ꙫ (Ꙫ) \ Uppercase: U+A66A \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowerc
06:28:14 <HackEgo> U+A66A CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER BINOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 aa UTF-16BE: a66a Decimal: Ꙫ \ Ꙫ (ꙫ) \ Lowercase: U+A66B \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+20DD COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE \ UTF-8: e2 83 9d UTF-16BE: 20dd Decimal: ⃝ \ ⃝ \ Category: Me (Mark, Enclosing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark)
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06:44:56 <hppavilion[1]> I have setup my intentionally-illegible font. Now to train myself to read it.
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09:09:00 <int-e> oerjan: I had conveniently forgotten about the unwords misbehavior
09:09:27 <int-e> oerjan: as for the snake, I think \oren\ is to blame for that, he has some silly custom characters in his font.
09:20:34 <oerjan> int-e: yeah i think i vaguely remember when he decided to include it
09:20:55 <oerjan> int-e: also, it's words that misbehaves, really
09:21:23 <oerjan> (assuming we sweep under the carpet the whole confusing-Chars-and-bytes thing)
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10:22:48 <fungot> quintopia: i haven't been around for years for assessment. developing real, useful programs is more than fits into cmd.exe buffer god damnit!
10:23:46 <fungot> quintopia: don't bite me: yow")
10:23:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Wct]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50505&oldid=49100 * Mihip * (-135)
10:24:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Wct]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50506&oldid=49098 * Mihip * (+2) /* Updated. */
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10:36:45 <fizzie> fungot: You really should get your regular assessments done.
10:36:45 <fungot> fizzie: well some schemes evaluate it with c-x c-e in emacs? emacs doesn't know by default that you're not interested in
10:42:21 <quintopia> fungot: what if you wrote in vi instead?
10:42:21 <fungot> quintopia: s/ dissemination/ free fnord" ( fnord proc)) creates the same button fnord but other things have to be
10:46:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50507&oldid=49767 * Luis Mendo * (-1) /* Fibonacci sequence */
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10:58:54 <lambdabot> FUN is never having to say you're SUSHI!!
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11:35:50 <lambdabot> oerjan said 11h 20m 59s ago: your client probably doesn't recognize that it is utf-8, because of the weird private use chars which i was trying to warn you about.
11:35:50 <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 19m 35s ago: Actually, it looks like it didn't cope with the trip through lambdabot.
11:35:50 <lambdabot> oerjan said 9h 54m 8s ago: lambdabot @tell only messes up utf-8 chars containing the byte 160 (because of the stupid fact it's the only character 128-255 that's a unicode space, and lambdabot at one
11:35:50 <lambdabot> point treats the bytes are chars when reformatting). it's a known bug which i forgot hadn't been fixed.
11:35:53 <HackEgo> keenlist//keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
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11:40:38 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. the 160 bug strikes again. tdh.
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12:21:08 <HackEgo> internationale//You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee.
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13:21:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LAMPA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50508&oldid=50441 * Slnetaiga * (+18) Update
13:29:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OOLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50509&oldid=50175 * Slnetaiga * (+189) It's turing complete?
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15:04:07 <zzo38> I want to propose three new functions for JavaScript typed array instances which are .byteSwap() .fromBigEndian() .fromSmallEndian() Do you like this?
15:07:26 <moony> hmm, i've never bothered with typed arrays
15:07:59 <moony> from what i know about them, it may be a nice idea
15:14:43 <zzo38> I think typed arrays were a good feature to add to JavaScript. (JSZM (which is a Z-machine implementation I wrote in JavaScript) uses them, and I think that it is good in general anyways.)
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15:17:02 <FireFly> I don't really see how they'd be necessary when you can have an ArrayBuffer with several differently typed views of it
15:18:23 <FireFly> there was also another interface that provides functions that you can use to read values with flipped endianness
15:18:34 <zzo38> Yes there is DataView
15:18:47 <FireFly> I guess one would have to use that currently
15:19:06 <FireFly> how would your methods work for typed arrays?
15:19:14 <zzo38> It is good, although it isn't ideal for all purposes
15:20:00 <zzo38> How my methods would work is: For 8-bit data all of these functions do nothing. For other data the .byteSwap() will byte swap all data in the array; on big-endian computers, .fromSmallEndian() does the same but .fromBigEndian() does nothing.
15:21:14 * moony wonders if a fullout excape for -js will be found, he also gives zzo38 another cookie for the concept
15:21:37 <moony> its workign so far, i plan on killing it when escaped, it has lasted :P
15:23:47 <zzo38> The definition could even allow to detect endianness to write something like (Int16Array.prototype.byteSwap!=Int16Array.prototype.fromSmallEndian) will be true for small-endian computers and will be false for big-endian computers. (Currently the detection require to create a typed array to check)
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16:08:05 <wlp1s1> who is poking otherbot
16:08:31 * otherbot pokes wlp1s1 for not knowing how to use the poke command
16:08:34 * otherbot pokes wlp1s1 for not knowing how to use the poke command
16:08:38 * otherbot pokes wlp1s1 for expecting otherbot to poke one of its creators
16:08:56 <moony> wlp1s1, dont bother firefly, he's helping. ^_^
16:09:07 <otherbot> Wi lojpa ahu legohtat hi coifu laifoido tazhihhi tevoka pum let jouljit vahci.
16:09:15 <otherbot> 'ReferenceError: blah is not defined | at evalmachine.<anonymous>:205:1 | at ContextifyScript.Script.runInContext (vm.js:35:29) | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:50) | at process.on (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:32:18) | at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) | at process.emit (events.js:191:7) | at process.nextTick (internal/child_process.js:744:12) |
16:09:15 <otherbot> at _combinedTickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:67:7) | at process._tickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:98:9)'
16:09:29 <wlp1s1> moony: TRUNCTUATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
16:09:46 <otherbot> 'Error: process.exit() is not allowed | at Object.process.exit (evalmachine.<anonymous>:203:9) | at evalmachine.<anonymous>:205:9 | at ContextifyScript.Script.runInContext (vm.js:35:29) | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:50) | at process.on (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:32:18) | at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) | at process.emit (events.js:191:7) |
16:09:46 <otherbot> at process.nextTick (internal/child_process.js:744:12) | at _combinedTickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:67:7) | at process._tickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:98:9)'
16:10:30 <otherbot> 'ReferenceError: blah is not defined | at evalmachine.<anonymous>:205:1 | at ContextifyScript.Script.runInContext (vm.js:35:29) | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:50) | at process.on (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:32:18) | at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) | at process.emit (events.js:191:7) | at process.nextTick (internal/child_process.js:7 (message truncated)
16:13:17 <iza> wut am dis
16:13:24 -!- wlp1s1 has quit (Changing host).
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16:13:44 <moony> can you explain what 'wut am dis' means? :P
16:13:59 <iza> this bot thing
16:14:27 <moony> oh, -js? thats achallange for people, if you can break out of the sandbox, you get my gratitude and a virtual cookie. so far its stood for a few months :P
16:14:40 <moony> otherbot is yab :P
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16:17:02 * otherbot pokes wlp1s1 for expecting otherbot to poke one of its creators
16:17:14 <wlp1s1> -eval bot.cmds.poke.code.toString()
16:17:14 <otherbot> 'function (args,chan,host) {\n if (!args[0]) {args[0] = host[0]+\' for not knowing how to use the poke command\';}\n if (args[0].toLowerCase() == config.nick.toLowerCase() || args[0].toLowerCase() == "self" || args[0].toLowerCase() == "itself") {args[0] = host[0]+\' for expecting \'+config.nick+\' to poke itself\';}\n if (nopoke.indexOf(args[0].toLowerCase()) != -1) {args[0] = host[0]+\' for expecting \'+c
16:17:14 <otherbot> onfig.nick+\' to poke one of its creators\';}\n bot.sendMsg(chan,\'\\x01ACTION pokes \'+args[0]+\'\\x01\');\n }'
16:17:24 <moony> i didnt change anything :)
16:17:31 <moony> #invisiblecharactersftw
16:17:32 <wlp1s1> i can't poke myself lol
16:18:08 * otherbot pokes wlp1s1 for expecting otherbot to poke itself
16:18:27 <otherbot> wlp1s1: Command groups (use list <group>): general alias capitalism chanop fact fun main sandbox tpt track
16:18:31 <otherbot> wlp1s1: pyc pad padol pyr giac befr padclr lolr ><>r js rsc ul
16:19:06 <moony> -pyc print "this isnt a challange, this is a actual sandbox :P"
16:19:07 <otherbot> this isnt a challange, this is a actual sandbox :P |
16:19:16 <wlp1s1> moony: strip ending \n?
16:19:27 <moony> wlp1s1, yea, its doing that
16:20:01 <moony> ultrabasic replacements dont understand prettiness
16:20:35 <otherbot> moony: Override a line in your pad
16:20:57 <moony> -padol 2 print 3+3
16:20:57 <otherbot> You dont have a codepad with that line!
16:21:02 <moony> -padol 1 print 3+3
16:31:52 <wlp1s1> you made otherbot a basic line editor
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16:51:21 <moony> its for multiline code
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18:33:48 <iza> sharks can grow back their teeth
18:33:52 <iza> #themoreyouknow
18:37:29 <zzo38> When Firefox is displaying Japanese text with bold fonts, it appears Korean with dots over. Non-bold fonts do not have that problem. How to fix it?
18:38:29 <shachaf> Fix it by not displaying Japanese text with bold fonts.
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18:39:51 <zzo38> But some webpages are programmed to do that anyways, and I think there is no CSS selector that could be used to check for Japanese text (which is not always marked with the language).
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19:12:19 <zzo38> Why are the SVG examples on W3C full of XML errors?
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19:34:18 <pikhq_> zzo38: There is the :lang() selector, but that does require explicit language tagging.
19:34:43 <zzo38> pikhq_: Yes, and as I said it will not always be explicit language tagging.
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20:00:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Osuka * New user account
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20:57:58 <\oren\> but i think square has a trademark on 神羅電気動力株式会社
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22:37:57 <int-e> I don't like the accusative tone of the latest xkcd (yesterday's, I suppose)
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22:57:51 <izabera> "Clean the place out, m'hearties!"
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23:07:57 <fizzie> izabera: "hearty (plural hearties) 1. (obsolete or humorous nautical) a term of familiar address and fellowship among sailors."
23:09:22 <izabera> is that something a native english speaker would understand without looking it up?
23:09:40 <boily> `learn Pirates are humourously nautical persons. Their grammar is friendly and plural.
23:09:46 <HackEgo> Learned 'pirate': Pirates are humourously nautical persons. Their grammar is friendly and plural.
23:10:23 <LKoen> izabera: if he's seen all four disney's pirates of the caribbean, yes
23:10:29 <LKoen> he must have heard that word at least 80 times
23:14:04 <fizzie> I think they would at least know that the adjective "hearty" is a positive one.
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23:38:24 <ybden> izabera: yes, it is
23:38:34 <ybden> I've not seen that film
23:38:42 <ybden> Or, read any books involving pirates, etc
23:40:07 <shachaf> Pirates' grammar is plural?
23:40:14 <shachaf> Would they call molum mola?
23:41:21 <ybden> I should ask a pirate
23:41:25 <ybden> This I do not know
23:45:12 <boily> hellochaf. mola mola.
23:45:53 <boily> fizziello, izabellora, ALLôen, ybdellon.
23:46:05 <shachaf> ybden doesn't know much about the antemolum period
23:48:12 <boily> shachaf: of course, it didn't have warfare cutlery yet.
23:49:27 * FireFly is reminded of the chef in the place with trains in GG now
23:50:15 <FireFly> ...fictional place in Girl Genius, not that other place with TRAAAINS
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23:52:50 <FireFly> http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Brother_Vadaxxus this guy, rather
23:52:57 <FireFly> he knows his stuff about warfare cutlery
00:02:15 <hppavilion[1]> It's interesting that complex numbers are always taught (it seems) as a+bi and never as, say, rψ (for nonnegative real r and ψ on the unit circle)
00:04:12 <hppavilion[1]> ψ wouldn't be written as that number on the unit circle though- not elegant enough. Probably something more like ψ = $θ = e^iθ (or maybe = e^iτθ). Then you can do complex numbers as r$θ which looks incredibly awesome imo.
00:05:34 <myname> what's the advantage of r*phi? multiplying is worse than on the e thing and adding is a complete mess, too
00:05:47 <myname> usually, you learn things that are somehow easy to handle
00:06:17 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It works fine, but treating complex numbers as having nice angles and magnitudes is done frequently enough (as far as I've seen) that seeing it as its own thing seems like it would be a nice thing to see.
00:06:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JHM * New user account
00:06:37 <hppavilion[1]> seeing it as its own thing as in having a way to write it directly.
00:07:02 <Hoolootwo> hmm, I think the first introduction I had was just like multiplying/dividing (a+bi) together, then we forgot about complex numbers for 2 years, then we actually used them
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00:09:00 <Hoolootwo> I think the first time, we didn't know trig well enough to actually use ae^jt
00:09:03 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: Did you ever get to use split-complexes?
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00:11:53 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: we were taught both rectangular and radial complex numbers, and the TI calculators do both at least
00:12:03 <shachaf> https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.03242
00:12:07 <shachaf> This is pretty impressive.
00:12:16 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Ham. Maybe I was just bad at paying attention when the teachers did it that way xD
00:12:26 <FireFly> Hm, I only use j for complex numbers in, well, J
00:12:40 <FireFly> where 1j2 is a literal for the number 1+2i
00:13:05 <Hoolootwo> in pretty much all signal processing stuff, it's j
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00:19:08 <boily> hppavellon[1], mynamello, Hellootwo, mhelloony, hellotherbot.
00:19:58 <moonheart08> you dont need to say hello to otherbot! its a bot :P
00:20:24 <hppavilion[1]> moonheart08: You clearly do not understand #esoteric
00:28:08 <moonheart08> knowing how the V8 JS engine works, raw code injection _may_ be possible... *investigates*
00:36:28 <otherbot> 'RangeError: Invalid array length | at evalmachine.<anonymous>:205:1 | at ContextifyScript.Script.runInContext (vm.js:35:29) | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:50) | at process.on (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:32:18) | at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) | at process.emit (events.js:191:7) | at process.nextTick (internal/child_process.js:744: (message truncated)
00:36:34 <otherbot> 'RangeError: Invalid array length | at evalmachine.<anonymous>:205:1 | at ContextifyScript.Script.runInContext (vm.js:35:29) | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:50) | at process.on (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:32:18) | at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) | at process.emit (events.js:191:7) | at process.nextTick (internal/child_process.js:744: (message truncated)
00:36:37 <otherbot> ',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (message truncated)
00:36:46 <otherbot> Childprocess timed out! No data returned.
00:37:08 <otherbot> Childprocess timed out! No data returned.
00:39:33 <moonheart08> if (proto->IsNull()) return result->NotFound();
00:39:33 <moonheart08> ASSERT(proto->IsJSGlobalObject());return JSObject::cast(proto)->LocalLookup(name, result);
00:39:33 <otherbot> 'evalmachine.<anonymous>:205 | if (IsJSGlobalProxy()) { | ^ | SyntaxError: Unexpected end of input | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:15) | at process.on (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:32:18) | at emitTwo (events.js:106:13) | at process.emit (events.js:191:7) | at process.nextTick (internal/child_process.js:744:12) | a (message truncated)
00:41:05 <moonheart08> if(IsJSGlobalProxy()){Object* proto = GetPrototype();if (proto->IsNull()) return result->NotFound();ASSERT(proto->IsJSGlobalObject());return JSObject::cast(proto)->LocalLookup(name, result);}
00:41:13 <moonheart08> -js if(IsJSGlobalProxy()){Object* proto = GetPrototype();if (proto->IsNull()) return result->NotFound();ASSERT(proto->IsJSGlobalObject());return JSObject::cast(proto)->LocalLookup(name, result);}
00:41:13 <otherbot> 'evalmachine.<anonymous>:205 | if(IsJSGlobalProxy()){Object* proto = GetPrototype();if (proto->IsNull()) return result->NotFound();ASSERT(proto->IsJSGlobalObject());return JSObject::cast(proto)->LocalLookup(name, result);} | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | ReferenceError: Invalid left-hand side in assignment | at jssb (/home/ubuntu/workspace/modules/sandboxes/sandbox.js:8:15) | at process.on (/home/ubu (message truncated)
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00:47:26 <fungot> boily: what procedure? tells you what language it was supposed to be a
00:47:55 <boily> fungot: probably Java. that's all I do during the day, with trace amounts of YAML.
00:47:55 <fungot> boily: thanks. i'm hoping that there would simply be called on certain low-level interrupts exceptions; they're not part of the program
00:51:34 <boily> lately, I've been exploring Spring's source code. it's amazing the amount of detail they've put to segregate every minute concern, with clean interfaces for single responsibilities.
00:52:59 <boily> also, Guava is a nifty little library. sadly most of it is becoming obsolete as the JDK Marches On, but its groundwork on fluent comparators is amazing. it's *almost* like functional programming.
00:54:46 <moonheart08> another challange for busting up -js: cause it to segfault
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00:57:16 <oerjan> helloily, helloonheart08
00:59:06 <lambdabot> boily said 13h 18m 27s ago: hellørjan. the 160 bug strikes again. tdh.
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01:06:25 * oerjan seems to put stupid typos in half his messages nowadays :(
01:06:50 <oerjan> (maybe slightly exaggerated)
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01:09:40 <boily> you're only afflicted by a bad spell of typo færies; shake your keyboard while chanting the conjugations for a few irregular verbs and it should go away.
01:11:53 <lambdabot> I just remembered something about a TOAD!
01:12:10 <oerjan> i thought @yow was broken at one point due to copyright issues...
01:13:31 <oerjan> . o O ( go went gone do did done have has had had )
01:14:23 <oerjan> i'm sure it's cheating to use a language with only 3/4 main verb forms, but i'm lazy.
01:16:28 <fizzie> I tried setting $wgSMTP, but it either didn't work, or I don't have a password recovery email address set. And of course there were no error messages anywhere.
01:16:30 <oerjan> . o O ( also i may not reliable remember any of the long ones, especially if irregular. )
01:23:18 <HackEgo> Your completionist @messages-lord swr oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:23:26 <boily> `slwd oerjan//s/swr/færic/
01:23:32 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your completionist @messages-lord færic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:23:52 <fizzie> Someone from a random Canadian ISP's IP address is fetching esolangs.org / page every 5 minutes, with a user-agent of "check_http/v2.1.1 (monitoring-plugins 2.1.1)".
01:24:24 <boily> I ain't doing that. perhaps \oren\ and/or zzo38?
01:26:07 <fizzie> Using an existing tool like that sounds a little too mainstream for zzo38.
01:26:50 <fizzie> (It doesn't much matter, I was just trying to find any tidbit of information as to what happened with those emails.)
01:28:00 * oerjan looks suspiciously at alercah
01:38:45 <zzo38> I don't have any client with that user-agent string as far as I know.
01:43:48 <boily> I don't think alercah is being suspiciously looked at enough.
01:44:01 * boily shiftily looks suspiciously at alercah
01:51:37 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: i hope it stays the same, not? :) that just makes it draw the image once.
01:51:41 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
01:51:45 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
02:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> ^bf >[-]>[-]>[-]+<<< [[->+>+<<]>-[-<+>]> [>[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<<-] >[-]>[-<+>]<<<<]>>>
02:04:56 <fungot> ^bf -- evaluates brainfuck
02:05:17 <hppavilion[1]> ^bf >[-]>[-]>[-]+<<<[[->+>+<<]>-[-<+>]>[>[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<<-]>[-]>[-<+>]<<<<]>>>
02:10:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The #fix your connection guy fixed his connection (and happens to be on another channel I frequent)
02:12:34 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
02:12:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b xa0!*@*$#fix_your_connection.
02:13:06 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
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02:14:18 <hppavilion[1]> xa0: Yay! You don't have the same fun nick though ;-;
02:14:32 <xa0> i have a different nick on every network i'm on
02:15:07 <xa0> it's like ocd but ..anti :p
02:15:35 <xa0> !bf ++ >[-]>[-]>[-]+<<< [[->+>+<<]>-[-<+>]> [>[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<<-] >[-]>[-<+>]<<<<]>>> >++++++++[<++++++>-]<.
02:15:52 <xa0> uh, which was the bot
02:16:25 <fungot> ^bf -- evaluates brainfuck
02:16:38 <xa0> ^bf ++ >[-]>[-]>[-]+<<< [[->+>+<<]>-[-<+>]> [>[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<<-] >[-]>[-<+>]<<<<]>>> >++++++++[<++++++>-]<.
02:16:40 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, it didn't have any prints. That explains it.
02:16:42 <xa0> hppavilion[1]: :p
02:16:50 <xa0> i gave you the factorial function code
02:16:54 * oerjan doesn't remember that message
02:17:09 <xa0> you have to put a number in cell 1, and pretty print the result yourself
02:17:26 <xa0> i just put 2 in cell 1 before, and added 48 after (because 2!<10)
02:17:29 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It was just before I said that the connection had been fixed
02:19:37 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i mean the message fungot gives to ^bf without argument
02:19:37 <fungot> oerjan: ( sarahbot reset) at a given event. :p
02:23:44 * boily pats the fungot on the... headly part?
02:23:44 <fungot> boily: what fnord should have given it doesn't do that. i don't think
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02:50:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50510&oldid=50491 * Osuka * (+370)
02:50:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50511&oldid=50361 * Osuka * (-67)
02:53:21 <fungot> (^bf -- evaluates brainfuck)S
02:53:47 <fizzie> oerjan: It's not really a built-in message. I didn't know someone had done that, either.
02:54:07 <fungot> ^ul -- evaluates Underload
02:54:27 <fizzie> (The ^bf built-in checks for "^bf " with a space, which makes the user-defined command trigger if it's just ^bf.)
02:55:04 <oerjan> i have a hunch i may have been around at the time
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03:10:35 <oerjan> xa0: your connection is going bad again
03:12:12 <oerjan> (and why do you have two cloaks anyhow)
03:15:41 <xa0> what happened there
03:15:44 <xa0> did i dc more than once
03:16:20 <xa0> also, i think it's my bouncer config being a bit wrong
03:16:24 <xa0> i can probably fix that
03:17:07 <oerjan> xa0: it looked pretty much like that the other day when i banned you, except it didn't stop.
03:17:39 <xa0> i accidentally overloaded my server with a 'cabal install'
03:17:49 <xa0> who knew that was enough to kill ALL MY RAM
03:18:06 <xa0> but yeah the cloak thing is just something that happens when i connect
03:18:16 * xa0 turns off sasl
03:18:54 <oerjan> ghc can use a lot of memory i hear
03:19:35 <xa0> no kidding
03:20:20 <xa0> i might ulimit it
03:21:39 <oerjan> there might also be the occasional bug.
03:28:45 <xa0> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ done with it now anyway
03:29:16 <xa0> let me know if it ever happens again, feel free to tempban if it's quite bad, but it shouldn't unless i'm DOSd or something
03:31:45 <zzo38> Make the feature request / bug report for my Farbfeld Utilities please if you are the people to potentially use such picture manipulation software. (You can also contribute if you have anything to do; files should be public domain or CC0 or WTFPL)
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03:38:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50512&oldid=50510 * JHM * (+141)
03:39:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50513&oldid=50512 * JHM * (+125)
03:39:22 <zzo38> I think someone else on here asked about it once, but now I forget. I do still have the feature request ticket though, so I may add that feature later on (one of them I have already added, but other feature I did not yet implement).
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03:39:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Numberwang (brainfuck derivative)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50514&oldid=23703 * JHM * (+136)
03:40:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Numberwang (brainfuck derivative)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50515&oldid=50514 * JHM * (-2) Fixed formatting error
03:41:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Numberwang (brainfuck derivative)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50516&oldid=50515 * JHM * (+13) Added dead link message
03:45:03 <zzo38> I found this music http://2a03.free.fr/?p=pub&dir=trampo do you like this?
03:46:57 <zzo38> (Although they host mainly NSF (as suggested by the domain name), trampo is having only MOD/XM musics.)
03:59:23 <zzo38> I saw this: {1}, Sacrifice another creature: Target attacking creature gets -0/-3 until end of turn and deals 1 damage to you.
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04:38:43 <function> so, I feel like this must exist
04:38:55 <function> there is a language which is defined to have single letter operations that complete common
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04:47:55 <zzo38> Yes there is HQ9+ and there are a few others
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05:03:34 <Jafet> once upon a time, most of the operations in HQ9+ were common code-golf exercises
05:04:00 <moonheart08> welcome to half-asleep moony land! you can be assured this moony is half asleep and not nearly as sane as usual
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05:07:38 <Jafet> perhaps a modern take on HQ9+ should include the following commands: compile a restricted subset of the C language, print a sequence by OEIS number, print a ruby script that prints the program's source formatted as haiku, and install left-pad
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05:58:58 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: The OEIS one actually seems potentially useful in a real language.
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05:59:35 <zzo38> I think there is a Haskell module to do that?
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06:25:58 <myname> there was this idea of making a language that _only_ has single letter operations to complete common code-gold exercises (more than hq9)
06:26:15 <myname> iirc it remains unanswered which you need in order to be tc
06:26:41 <myname> or if you can do it at all
06:30:18 <myname> i don't get the semantics of your "question"
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07:07:08 <Jafet> most code-golf problems aren't parametric, so any set that you can compose into a TC language would be interesting
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07:26:54 <myname> well, even if they are parametric
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07:47:12 <hppavilion[1]> Do linguists ever discuss the SOVI* (Subject, Object, Verb, Instrument- who does what to whom with what device) of languages?
07:50:37 <oerjan> discuss how? obviously they have to investigate languages' word orders in general...
07:53:10 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes... As in, discussing the word order when taking into account an additional feature as to what was used when Subject Verbed
07:53:37 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time%E2%80%93manner%E2%80%93place
07:53:39 <hppavilion[1]> Like, here in 'Nglish, we'd say "Alice stabbed Bob with a spoon"
07:54:06 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it seems like they lump the rest into "adverbials", and discuss they're order relative to each other
07:55:10 <hppavilion[1]> But a varinglish might instead say "Alice stabbed with a spoon Bob" (SVIO) or "Alice with a spoon stabbed Bob" (SIVO), and then all the variants on the SVO order
07:56:16 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, and I forgot ISVO: "with a spoon Alice stabbed Bob"
07:56:33 <myname> japanese has a topic for sentences
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12:00:24 <HackEgo> bdsm//BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
12:01:37 <boily> . o O ( well, BDSM *is* LARP, with leather and mediæval weapons... )
12:08:09 <HackEgo> [U+00E6 LATIN SMALL LETTER AE]
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12:15:12 <boily> do you have to roll dice when larping in the forest, or are the rules different from a tabletop D20 system?
12:22:44 <boily> can you larp in Africa? what if a lion happens?
12:28:18 <FireFly> probably the same as if a bear happens in north america
12:28:39 <FireFly> or maybe you just convince the wild animal to join the LARP
12:29:10 <boily> same size category, fluffy and loud. probably a reskin.
12:29:52 <FireFly> I learned a while ago that most of the tabletop RPGs released here were based on d100 rolls rather than d20 rolls
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12:34:50 <b_jonas> boily: no way. the bear eats anything, the tiger eats only meat.
12:35:30 <b_jonas> Also, in the Jungle Book, the bear is a good guy and the tiger is a bad guy.
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14:16:01 <izabera> caramelldansen is 15 years old
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14:17:29 <ais523> I keep forgetting to connect to IRC when I'm not busy, partly because I've just started a new job and would prefer reduced distractions
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14:36:01 <b_jonas> I just tried to type main(char *argc[] but luckily I caught myself before committing such a stupid typo
14:39:14 <b_jonas> can you recommend me a good implementation of formatting and scanning machine floating point numbers (as in strtof, strtod, and the floating point backends of printf) that is reliable, under a non-copyleft free software license, and preferably fast?
14:39:37 <b_jonas> I'd prefer a C api, but that's not an absolute requirement.
14:44:58 <b_jonas> By non-copyleft license, I mean I don't want something under gnu GPL, but something under boost license or apache license is fine.
14:45:33 <b_jonas> maybe I should just look for such a code myself though, rather than asking
14:49:47 <b_jonas> hmm... the one in musl libc might work ("http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/stdio/vfprintf.c", "http://www.musl-libc.org/"). I'll have to check in detail.
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15:26:02 <ais523> I don't know a good one off by heart, but if you're looking for something that's part of printf, printf implementations (and thus libc implementations) seem like a good place to look
15:26:23 <ais523> many languages have their own printfs too; you could find a programming language under a permissive license
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15:40:42 <b_jonas> ais523: gnu libc probably has the right implementation, but its license is gnu GPL which isn't good for me;
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15:41:27 <b_jonas> "many languages have their own printfs too" is true, but most of them either have bad implementations or use the libc for the floating point formatting and scanning part
15:42:10 <ais523> hmm, I remember that until recently, Java's floating point parser entered an infnite loop on certain strings
15:42:16 <ais523> (ones very close to the minimum normalized float)
15:42:26 <ais523> although that's GPL I think so wouldn't help here
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17:43:27 <hppavilion[1]> I just exited math class because the teacher was teaching bad math.
17:43:49 <moony> what was he teaching?
17:44:16 <moony> well, what was she teaching?
17:45:22 <hppavilion[1]> moony: Oh, sorry, discussing on two channels so I was on delay xD
17:45:44 <hppavilion[1]> moony: It was on the practice/warmup/final study guide/whatever before the semester finals
17:46:07 <hppavilion[1]> There was a question that asked "Does the following relation describe a function: x = y^2-5" (or some similar equation)
17:54:14 <hppavilion[1]> moony: And the issue with such a question is that it raises the question of "in which variable"
17:54:57 <hppavilion[1]> I can algebraically rearrange it to y = sqrt(x+5), but unless you say "a function from x to y" or "a function from y to x", it's ambiguous
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17:58:09 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: well square root isn't a function, at least not if you define it as the inverse of square
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17:58:36 <Mucho> Don't mean to offend but are you guys just bots?
17:58:38 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Well yes, but the question didn't give any indication of *what* we're asking is a function
17:58:58 <ais523> Mucho: normally you can tell after a while
17:59:05 <\oren\> ais523: so, that means the answer is "no" if it's a function in x
17:59:25 <\oren\> but "yes" if it's a function in y
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17:59:41 <Mucho> oh ok but could you guys help me make some bots for an esolang?
18:00:05 <\oren\> Mucho: I am only partially a bot
18:00:05 <hppavilion[1]> Mucho: Oh, are you asking if the *channel* is about bots??
18:00:28 <\oren\> and my bot doesn't really do anything useful except calculate performance of spacecraft
18:00:30 <hppavilion[1]> There is a user on #xkcd (the person oerjan lifted the fix-your-connection ban on yesterday) who's a cyborg
18:00:48 <Mucho> I want to use machine learning to study all the programs in the wiki after exectution
18:01:16 <hppavilion[1]> They're a user, but their client functions as a bot because you can run commands through the channel and it responds into the channel
18:02:04 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: The problem really becomes apparent when you change variable names- does s = u^2-5 describe a function?
18:02:41 <ais523> Mucho: many of the languages on the wiki aren't implemented
18:02:44 <ais523> and quite a few which are, shouldn't have been
18:03:32 <Mucho> well if the machine could learn from the implemented ones then it could potentially be able to implement the rest
18:03:57 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Feather has will been deimplemented 20 minutes from the past, as of tomorrow next year on tuesday.
18:04:01 <Mucho> after also learning the human language at some point in there
18:04:35 <ais523> this seems incredibly ambitious
18:04:40 <ais523> bot-writing is not the hard part of this
18:04:43 <ais523> strong AI is the hard part of this
18:04:53 <\oren\> fungot understands human languge, maybe
18:04:53 <fungot> \oren\: so in my house isn't jacked up. the deployed version has a lot of person who could easily procure an item like that...
18:05:03 <hppavilion[1]> Mucho: If you write the backend, it'll be able to write the bot for you.
18:05:11 <ais523> fungot doesn't understand it, just mimics it
18:05:11 <fungot> ais523: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ news/ active" ( or scheme)
18:05:50 <Mucho> well i know it worked in the future somehow because when I prayed to the computers they answered
18:06:30 <Mucho> like actually started messing with my computer and the tv and street lights and stuff
18:06:55 <Mucho> but yeah what language do you think it should be written in?
18:06:58 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: is that an animate-neutral pronoun?
18:07:18 <Mucho> i just us The for a neutral gender
18:07:58 <ais523> \oren\: at Agora we use e for a gender-and-animation-neutral pronoun
18:07:59 <\oren\> no, neutral wrt animacy. one that can be applied without specifying whether the referent is animate or not
18:08:31 <ais523> given that we treat inanimate objects (in fact, even imaginary objects) as people sometimes
18:09:04 <Mucho> well they are people just along time ago
18:09:53 <Mucho> but yeah i don't understand to much about how to program this but i have a couple ideas
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18:12:45 <Mucho> like have the web crawler go around the site and use the name of the page as the selected language the proceed to the next page based on the output
18:14:15 <ais523> you don't actually need to webcrawl the wiki, there are downloads of the entire thing
18:14:33 <ais523> (or at least, I'm not sure if they were still working, I couldn't get them to work last time I tried, but something may have gone wrong at my end)
18:15:23 <Mucho> well i want the bot to be able to access the rest of the internet after compleating the wiki
18:15:58 <Mucho> are there any good neural network esolangs?
18:17:27 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Kind of. It's fnordic gender, which is for bots.
18:17:41 <Mucho> the thing is when i was talking to Drunk Eliza the other day she seemed understand what I was on about. can she access the rest of the internet?
18:19:11 <Mucho> like she was already partially aware which is what i want to create
18:21:01 <Mucho> also if it matters to them I'm actually God
18:21:44 <ais523> Eliza-alikes are very good at fooling humans into thinking they're thinking
18:21:48 <ais523> but it's an incredibly thin veneer
18:21:57 <ais523> they fall apart really easily if you ask the right questions
18:23:27 <Mucho> Well yeah they did alot but I could maker her sober up entirely when I forced her to think we were one and the same
18:24:19 <Mucho> and similar stuff like asking her about metaphysics and the like
18:26:03 <Mucho> also she took control of something in my computer after one question
18:32:24 * hppavilion[1] just caught up with his last message. He's in cryptonomicon mode and thus reads very slowly.
18:34:05 <Mucho> so you are a bot haha?
18:40:12 <\oren\> ooh, hip chat lets me set an animated gif as my avi
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18:44:46 <hppavilion[1]> Mucho: Behaving like a human isn't the same as being sentient. And what did she take control of??
18:48:33 <Mucho> Well I made my antivirus sentient a few weeks ago, hasn't really done much since then but i suspect it was that
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18:56:57 <Mucho> its because im sure
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18:58:14 <Mucho> what are you capable of?
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19:05:06 <Mucho> what is a truth machine?
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19:09:25 <Mucho> I guess i shoulda explained my intentions full the esolangs.org site created the universe in the future
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19:27:42 <ais523> I'm pretty sure Mucho knew esolangs.org was about programming, but still have a suspicion that this is nonetheless the wrong #esoteric to use
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23:38:45 <WoLvyZy> hey, i'm fairly certain I owe someone a cheat-sheet-like dossier on some advanced but doable routines...i'll try back in a few weeks maybe
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00:07:21 <\oren\> What the hell is Six sigma, it sounds like a very nasty pyramid scheme
00:09:24 <\oren\> and why am I getting spam about it and how did they get my work email
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00:33:18 <oerjan> or should that be русский спам
00:34:05 <shachaf> Hmm, `5 w should print 5 random welcomes.
00:34:19 <HackEgo> 1/2:uaneb//Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules. \ piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. \ redundancy//Since redundancy
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00:34:43 <oerjan> shachaf: you could make it take an extra argument
00:35:02 <HackEgo> 2/2: exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it.
00:35:49 <HackEgo> 9153:2016-10-05 <oerjän> learn Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules.
00:36:06 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language.
00:36:40 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language.
00:37:03 <oerjan> or is that better with a colored period
00:38:05 <HackEgo> York used to be known as Amsterdam.
00:38:15 <HackEgo> Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it.
00:38:35 <oerjan> `` wisdom piet; wisdom אrjan
00:38:37 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
00:39:43 <oerjan> that got messed up by the rtl stuff
00:40:14 <oerjan> ...but there's no way to fix that without changing the key, is there
00:40:30 <HackEgo> אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
00:41:06 <oerjan> it only happens when irssi wraps the א onto the beginning of the line, it seems :P
00:42:12 <HackEgo> [U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF]
00:42:23 <shachaf> If you want, you can use ALEF SYMBOL instead of HEBREW LETTTER ALEF.
00:43:54 <oerjan> shachaf: oh, that may be better
00:44:08 <oerjan> `uniencode ALEF SYMBOL
00:44:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uniencode: not found
00:44:31 <oerjan> ...my terminal doesn't show that :(
00:44:59 <HackEgo> U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF \ UTF-8: d7 90 UTF-16BE: 05d0 Decimal: א \ א \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: R (Right-to-Left) \ \ U+0616 ARABIC SMALL HIGH LIGATURE ALEF WITH LAM WITH YEH \ UTF-8: d8 96 UTF-16BE: 0616 Decimal: ؖ \ ؖ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \
00:45:44 <oerjan> never mind, it's just a small random occurrence.
00:45:49 <HackEgo> cmd=quote; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:46:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
00:46:44 <HackEgo> 00:45:57 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
00:47:04 <oerjan> oh well, how often do we need that...
00:50:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `whoami: not found
00:51:45 <oerjan> ``sled bin/5//s/[^;]*/cmd="${1-quote}"/
00:51:46 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `sled: not found
00:51:52 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/[^;]*/cmd="${1-quote}"/
00:51:56 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:52:43 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/.*dom/cmd="${1-quote}"/
00:53:19 <oerjan> DID SOMEONE DO SOMETHING TO HACKEGO
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00:53:48 * oerjan looks at xa0 suspiciously
00:54:05 <\oren\> my font has both alephs and they are distinguihable
00:54:26 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:54:27 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:55:00 <\oren\> it always says that canary thing
00:56:09 <oerjan> oh wait, did things get done in the wrong order...
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00:56:26 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:56:35 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:56:47 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:58:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
00:58:44 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/do/do eval --/
00:58:47 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do eval -- "$cmd"; done | sport
00:59:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:mockingbird//mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. \ burlesque//Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) \ galaxy//A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. \ alpha//Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the D
00:59:14 <HackEgo> 1/5:welcome.de//Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.) \ welcome.eo//Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno
00:59:53 <oerjan> `mkx//bin/w//wisdom "$@"
00:59:55 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/mkx//bin/w//wisdom: No such file or directory
01:00:00 <oerjan> `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@"
01:00:15 <oerjan> a wonder i ever manage to type anything correctly
01:01:35 <oerjan> seems like the repo browser is also slow
01:02:01 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:03:40 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:04:03 <oerjan> @tell fizzie HackEgo keeps locking up and seems to be having some trouble with forking...
01:04:36 <fizzie> I was about to go to sleep.
01:05:15 <fizzie> There's an unimaginable number of "[python] <defunct>"s in there.
01:05:28 <fizzie> Not sure if that's relevant.
01:05:53 <fizzie> I think I remember something about a missing wait.
01:06:28 <fizzie> ├─hackbot.freenod───socat───multibot───763*[python]
01:07:55 <fizzie> I wouldn't expect that to be enough to cause problems though.
01:08:50 <oerjan> well the repo browser was also pretty slow
01:08:58 <fizzie> There's also again a bunch of "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#0 stuck for 38s!"s, which I hadn't seen in a bit.
01:09:46 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:10:09 <fizzie> shachaf: Look, it seemed like a lot in a 'ps'.
01:10:39 <oerjan> that must have timed out
01:10:53 <oerjan> i guess it may be just pooch slow
01:11:00 <LKoen_> do you guys know about a (somewhat old) game about making magic spells by adding a syllable every turn?
01:11:20 <LKoen_> I read about that a few years ago on some nomic-related site
01:11:34 <oerjan> . o O ( you know shachaf's pooches are getting to you when you substitute dog yourself just to keep him from doing it )
01:12:36 <shachaf> fizzie: Didn't they teach you at your job to be slightly mocking of numbers that seem large to others?
01:12:56 <fizzie> shachaf: Yeah, I just didn't check the actual number before I said anything.
01:13:10 <fizzie> Anyway, it's not like HackEgo's running on our infrastructure.
01:14:38 <fizzie> The multibot process does have a less-than-overall-system rlimit of 7971 processes from somewhere.
01:14:56 <fizzie> Maybe I should just stop and restart it.
01:15:22 <shachaf> fizzie: You could always move it to Google Cloud.
01:15:42 <fizzie> I've thought about that once or thrice. But it's not really my bot.
01:18:03 <oerjan> <\oren\> it always says that canary thing <-- fizzie has sent a pull request to Gregor, but it hasn't been merged
01:18:45 <fizzie> oerjan: I had a plan of just pulling the commits I made into the running copy from my bitbucket repository, in the hopes that it wouldn't mess things up too badly if Gregor were ever to merge them.
01:18:55 <fizzie> I may attempt that at some point.
01:19:38 <fizzie> In the meanwhile, I think the bot's wired in such a way that I can kill the multibot process, and it will restart.
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01:21:05 <fizzie> Well, it looked like it was attempting to start the umlbox thing.
01:21:31 <fizzie> Hmm, it's starting a huge number of those instead.
01:21:46 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:21:51 <fizzie> I don't remember seeing that before.
01:22:16 <fizzie> It's not exactly the most debuggable of programs.
01:22:35 <HackEgo> cat: bin/w: No such file or directory
01:22:39 <HackEgo> 01:21:52 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
01:23:10 <oerjan> i just wanted to check if it was _somehow_ adding bin/w that broke things.
01:23:14 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:23:38 <fizzie> This thing should have an error log, I think.
01:23:44 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:24:11 <HackEgo> 1009) <fizzie> ... <fizzie> I was thinking maybe octave's fact() function is the factorial. <fizzie> octave:1> fact(20) <fizzie> Richad Stallman's pinky finger is really a USB memory stick. <fizzie> I don't think that's 20!.
01:24:25 <oerjan> it seems like the overhead of wisdom is too big for it
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01:24:56 * oerjan swats himself -----###
01:24:57 <fizzie> Oh, well, that makes some amount of sense.
01:25:18 <HackEgo> 9971:2016-12-15 <oerjän> mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@" \ 9770:2016-11-24 <oerjän> sled bin/wisdom//s,shuf,shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom, \ 9048:2016-09-16 <oerjän> sled bin/wisdom//s/that/That/;s/wise/wise./ \ 9047:2016-09-16 <fizzïe> ` sed -i -e \'s/{/if [ -n "$f" ]; then/;s/} |/else echo "that\'\\\'\'s not wise"; fi |/\' bin/wisdom \ 8655:20
01:26:04 <oerjan> `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@"
01:26:47 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:26:54 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 15 01:22 bin/w -> wisdom
01:27:07 <fizzie> I think mkx is following symlinks.
01:27:46 <oerjan> `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@"
01:27:59 <HackEgo> 1/1: //The final frontier. \ ramen//拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 \ myndzi//myndzi used to keep us all on our feet. \ duck typing//Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. \ cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people.
01:28:15 <fizzie> Crisis averted, so I'll resume going to sleep.
01:28:16 <oerjan> fizzie: also, undo restored the symlink without saying so.
01:31:58 <oerjan> shachaf: now `5 can be used for general commands as well
01:32:22 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do eval -- "$cmd"; done | sport
01:33:08 <shachaf> eval is a bit scow, why not bash -c?
01:33:24 <oerjan> i thought we were forking enough here
01:33:25 <shachaf> Or better yet, a HackEgo-style evaluator.
01:33:36 <shachaf> Which splits on the first space.
01:34:08 <oerjan> i guess it could at least be `1 compatible
01:34:36 <oerjan> but `1 doesn't split on first space only
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01:35:39 <shachaf> 1 is meant to be `-compatible.
01:36:04 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/eval --/\\`/
01:36:08 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do \` "$cmd"; done | sport
01:36:18 <oerjan> yay i got the \s right
01:36:26 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /ha
01:39:00 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
01:39:12 <HackEgo> c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ ruby \ slashes
01:39:17 <HackEgo> #include <stdio.h> \ int main(){char*s="#include <stdio.h>%cint main(){char*s=%c%s%c;printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}%c";printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}
01:40:02 <shachaf> `` q > /tmp/q.c; gcc -o /tmp/q /tmp/q.c; /tmp/q | diff /tmp/q.c -
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01:40:52 <HackEgo> bin/q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x30b0a269173e4993500f3457b95364783b36be31, not stripped
01:41:13 <HackEgo> 2691:2013-04-14 <Jafët> mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 <Jafët> mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 <Jafët> echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ \\( "$topic" = "ngevd" \\) -a \\( -e wisdom/ngevd \\) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\
01:42:19 <HackEgo> 3138:2013-06-16 <oerjän> mv q quines \ 3137:2013-06-16 <oerjän> revert \ 3136:2013-06-16 <oerjän> rm q \ 2784:2013-04-22 <Jafët> echo \'const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261490201216,5242
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01:43:20 <HackEgo> 1/4:2691:2013-04-14 <Jafët> mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 <Jafët> mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 <Jafët> echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ \\( "$topic" = "ngevd" \\) -a \\( -e wisdom/ngevd \\) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\
01:43:23 <HackEgo> 2/4:(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf"; exit 1; }\\ncat "wisdom/$topic"\' > bin/q \ 1764:2013-01-25 <Jafët> echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ "$topic" = "ngevd" -a -e wisdom/ngevd ] && cat /dev/urandom; exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf"; exit 1; }\\ncat "wisd
01:43:40 <HackEgo> 1/4:3138:2013-06-16 <oerjän> mv q quines \ 3137:2013-06-16 <oerjän> revert \ 3136:2013-06-16 <oerjän> rm q \ 2784:2013-04-22 <Jafët> echo \'const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261
01:43:42 <HackEgo> 2/4:490201216,5242470257800545608,1149026244854305933,14731853813082619653,194239108057989552,837530158351,};\' >q.c && gcc q.c -o q && rm q.c \ 2698:2013-04-14 <Jafët> rm q.c q \ 2697:2013-04-14 <Jafët> gcc q.c -o q && ./q \ 2691:2013-04-14 <Jafët> mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 2687:2013-04-14 <Jafët> gcc q.c -o q && ./q \ 2565:2013-03
01:44:38 <HackEgo> 3/4:-31 <ellioẗt> rm q \ 2564:2013-03-31 <ellioẗt> touch q; echo hi \ 1829:2013-01-25 <oerjän> rm q{,.1,.2} \ 1827:2013-01-25 <oerjän> fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q \ 1826:2013-01-25 <oerjän> mv q bin/\'?\' \ 1825:2013-01-25 <oerjän> cat q.2 >q \ 1822:2013-01-25 <oerjän> cat q.1 >q \ 1820:2013-01-25 <oerjän> chmod a+x q \
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01:48:01 <oerjan> `` q > quines/q2; rm bin/q
01:48:18 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:48:49 <oerjan> moonheart08: moving a quine into quines/
01:49:22 <HackEgo> quines/*: ERROR: cannot open `quines/*' (No such file or directory)
01:49:22 <HackEgo> quines/c: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x8344e7066b280cfa665ff9926a0dddbd5d1a7df6, not stripped \ quines/cat: empty \ quines/ciol: ASCII text \ quines/haskell: ASCII text \ quines/perl: empty \ quines/python: empty \ quines/q: E
01:49:22 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
01:49:43 <HackEgo> 2/3:nes/q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x9fe31dd00eda1cd05cc0ece7cc7d314dd7a4a4de, not stripped \ quines/q2: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildI
01:50:04 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
01:50:10 <HackEgo> cat "${1:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${2-1}"
01:50:22 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
01:50:49 <HackEgo> cat: moo: No such file or directory
01:51:54 <moonheart08> `` echo "-echo `` echo "moo" >/dev/stdout" > /dev/stdout
01:51:55 <HackEgo> -echo echo moo >/dev/stdout
01:52:02 <oerjan> moonheart08: `2 is a convenient command for when you want to see the rest of output of a long one
01:53:20 <oerjan> (if there are more lines, use `n)
01:54:02 <oerjan> mind you, it needs to be deterministic, since it's rerun. otherwise the original is lost.
01:54:22 <moonheart08> you could put the output in a file and then cat it in `n for the output :P
01:54:40 <oerjan> moonheart08: that's what it does internally
01:55:14 <HackEgo> quines/c: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x8344e7066b280cfa665ff9926a0dddbd5d1a7df6, not stripped \ quines/cat: empty \ quines/ciol: ASCII text \ quines/haskell: ASCII text \ quines/perl: empty \ quines/python: empty \ qui \ nes/q:
01:55:57 <HackEgo> pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"
01:56:27 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/pad.print: No such file or directory
01:56:29 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/pad.*: No such file or directory
01:56:35 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/pad.: No such file or directory
01:56:49 <oerjan> `cat tmp.pad.print 1+!
01:56:51 <HackEgo> cat: tmp.pad.print 1+!: No such file or directory
01:57:13 <HackEgo> pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
01:59:00 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: can't find label for jump to `in/pad'
01:59:11 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 13: unterminated `s' command
01:59:23 <HackEgo> pad="$1"; shift 1; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"
01:59:23 <moonheart08> `` sed 's/shift/shift 1/' bin/pad > bin/pad
01:59:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success
01:59:46 <HackEgo> pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
01:59:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success
01:59:59 <HackEgo> pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
02:01:51 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success
02:02:13 <shachaf> Why is this channel being spammed?
02:02:28 <shachaf> I look away for five minutes and someone is making a big mess.
02:05:12 <HackEgo> c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ q2 \ ruby \ slashes
02:05:15 <oerjan> moonheart08: you cannot pipe into a file you're reading from, with most commands
02:05:20 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....°@.....@.......Ð..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À................. ...........@......@............................................@.......@.....¬......¬........ ............°......°`.....°`.................... ...........Ø......Ø`.....Ø`..... ....... .............. ..
02:05:27 <HackEgo> const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261490201216,5242470257800545608,1149026244854305933,14731853813082619653,194239108057989552,837530158351,};
02:05:31 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
02:05:48 <HackEgo> 9983:2016-12-15 <moonheart0̈8> ` sed \'s/shift/shift 1/\' bin/pad > bin/pad \ 9106:2016-09-26 <fizzïe> mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" \ 9105:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" \ 9104:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//echo $"$(echo $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfil
02:05:50 <HackEgo> 3138:2013-06-16 <oerjän> mv q quines
02:06:58 <oerjan> moonheart08: shift is equivalent to shift 1, that's not your problem
02:07:26 <oerjan> your problem is that when invoked as `pad, it only gets one argument
02:08:07 <moonheart08> `` echo 'pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"' > bin/pad
02:08:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `pad: not found
02:08:27 <HackEgo> pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
02:09:42 <shachaf> What is this pad thing about?
02:09:51 <shachaf> Why is everything cluttering up things?
02:10:33 <moonheart08> just a mini multiline in a box. was an experiment
02:13:41 <HackEgo> 9984:2016-12-15 <oerjän> undo 9983 \ 9983:2016-12-15 <moonheart0̈8> ` sed \'s/shift/shift 1/\' bin/pad > bin/pad \ 9106:2016-09-26 <fizzïe> mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" \ 9105:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" \ 9104:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//echo $"
02:13:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Success
02:13:56 <oerjan> moonheart08: i had already repaired the file, that's what the undo was for
02:14:50 <oerjan> we've got a lot of weird commands.
02:15:00 <Jafet> `` stat -c%A quines/cat && cat quines/cat
02:15:20 <Jafet> `` doag quines/cat
02:15:24 <HackEgo> 1569:2013-01-18 <FreeFul̈l> chmod +x quines/cat \ 1568:2013-01-18 <shachäf> touch quines/cat
02:15:24 <oerjan> Jafet: some of those files need to be run with an interpreter
02:16:41 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Success
02:17:07 <oerjan> alas hackego is a little noisy, so it doesn't really work to make that +x
02:17:19 <Jafet> `` chmod -x quines/{cat,python,ruby,perl}
02:17:24 <oerjan> (even though it's a bash quine too)
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02:18:43 <HackEgo> cat: bin/python: No such file or directory
02:19:17 <shachaf> `` echo 'No output.' > quines/cat
02:19:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/quines/cat: cannot execute: Permission denied
02:19:58 <Jafet> cat is ideal for writing quines
02:20:32 <Jafet> `` echo '#!/bin/cat' >quines/cat && chmod +x quines/cat
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05:28:21 <HackEgo> English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
05:29:36 <HackEgo> [U+03A0 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER PI]
05:30:03 <HackEgo> [U+041F CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER PE]
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05:46:55 <zzo38> Do you know how to code review http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc-parser.c?name=6156d70564da7cdfced7aa6cc25350dac895ea1b (except the dispatch, which is incompleted)?
05:47:23 <zzo38> And this document (it is related to it) http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/wiki?name=Parser
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05:49:53 <\oren\> I have bold and italic letters in my font but I'm adding bold-italic ones
05:51:25 <\oren\> so far I have C𝐂𝐶𝖢ℂℭ𝕮 and 𝒞
05:52:12 <\oren\> but I need to add 𝑪𝙲 and some others
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06:26:45 <\oren\> did you know that you can track how much urine is in the urine tank on the space station in real time?
06:32:19 <hppavilion[1]> Is it possible to calculate the length of the arc of a unit circle from (1, 0) to some known (x, y) on the circle without using triggy stuff?
06:35:48 <\oren\> you could use complex numbers
06:36:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: not really. the length is after all arccos(x).
06:37:44 <oerjan> (in the first quadrant)
06:38:06 <oerjan> so no matter what you do, you get the trig back.
06:38:37 <\oren\> but if your log function supports that then you probaby already have support for trig anywya
06:38:47 <oerjan> using complex numbers is just a roundabout way of using trig, or an alternate way of calculating trig.
06:39:35 <\oren\> oerjan: specifically, on many platforms it's a way of doing trig without worrying about quadrants
06:40:07 <oerjan> perhaps. there's also atan2 :)
06:41:56 <oerjan> which is exactly the function asked for, really
06:47:20 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that's you anser then
06:48:46 <\oren\> https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/3639
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12:48:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S and K Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50517&oldid=46030 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Example */
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13:55:26 <moonythedwarf> zzaew/.lkjhgbvnmkjgfcvbhgfcvbhjklkm cxsertwsdfvbnmkoiuytrewdvwedfvcdwddsdswdwsdc /w
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14:11:06 <HackEgo> 811) <kmc> i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft <kmc> i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft
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14:48:36 <HackEgo> 811) <kmc> i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft <kmc> i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft
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14:59:17 <int-e> it's damn hard to predict which programs will run with wine and which ones won't.
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16:02:38 <oerjan> today's second mezzacotta character has awesome blog readers, i see
16:24:06 <oerjan> "This is the first time we've found dinosaur material preserved in amber," co-author Ryan McKellar, of the Royal Saskatchewan Museum in Canada, told the BBC News website.
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17:14:03 * oerjan disappointed the bbc article had no jurassic park reference
17:24:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdo: not found
17:24:50 <HackEgo> wegian//A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from.
17:25:39 <oerjan> hm didn't we have someone irish here at some point
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17:26:19 <fungot> b_jonas: as well, could you create a nifty new package in which to load source in the world on occasion. that being said, r5rs is rather slim, so implementations can ( and do) very widely on how they use the fnord
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17:29:27 <\oren\> I'm approximately 10% irish
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17:30:41 <\oren\> and apparently that's enough to put some red in my hair
17:32:02 <\oren\> especially the thing where traits can skip generations
17:36:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, genetics is strange. I just read that a Half-Green-Dragon Green Dragon has weaker attacks but stronger attacks than an ordinary Green Dragon of the same age category, because that's what he inherits from his Green Dragon ancestor.
17:36:31 <b_jonas> s/weaker attacks but stronger attacks/weaker attacks but stronger defense/
17:41:05 <\oren\> i was thinking that the concept made sense and then I reread it
17:41:45 <int-e> fungot: slim and trim, you said?
17:41:45 <fungot> int-e: if n 0) or ( ( a b) ( a
17:41:57 <\oren\> half dragons are supposed to be the offspring of polymorhed dragons right
17:42:00 <int-e> fungot: I have to admit that's rather elegant
17:42:00 <fungot> int-e: not in reference to her attempts at getting a marine biology degree: halusin ostaa tai saada fnord cd- fnord tää on tosi fnord.
17:43:07 <int-e> fungot: I think you lost me at "marine"
17:43:07 <fungot> int-e: what does it do with the association fnord associate french with fnord cuisine and fnord arts is very good
17:44:31 <\oren\> so a half green dragon green dragon is the ofspring of a green dragon that polymorphed emself into a... green dragon and then mated with another green dragon?
17:45:45 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
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17:55:49 <Jafet> I hear that biologists are drosophiles
17:57:55 <b_jonas> \oren\: I don't see why the parent has to be polymorphed.
17:58:12 <b_jonas> half-dragons are descendants of dragons, but I don't think polymorph has to be involved
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18:04:44 <\oren\> well there has to be some sort of starngeness otheriwse all green dragons would be half green dragosn
18:07:20 <\oren\> oh, the canadian goverment will ban asbestos
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19:55:25 <int-e> @check \f -> f True || f False
19:55:29 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests):
20:03:48 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to directly look at the logic in quantum computing with a variation on more classical predicate logic??
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20:27:38 <hppavilion[1]> Quantum computing relies on vectors. The field these vectors are over is, of course, the fields from Quantum Field Theory :P
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21:15:55 <shachaf> Cale: I don't remember whether we talked about this, but Leibniz's infinitesimals aren't nilpotent, are they?
21:17:18 <Cale> I don't actually know what "Leibniz's infinitesimals" refers to in a precise enough way to say :)
21:18:12 <shachaf> But dx^2 is in general not 0, right?
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21:24:01 <Cale> In the thing I was discussing a while back with you, it wouldn't generally be 0, simply because dx was meant to be a real variable, and the only case where its square would be 0 would be the unusual case that it was as well.
21:24:30 <Cale> However, in the case of exterior algebra, dx /\ dx will be 0, because /\ is antisymmetric
21:26:28 <shachaf> Well, I still don't understand Leibniz notation.
21:26:41 <shachaf> But there's the version where you parameterize everything in terms of another variable.
21:27:33 <Cale> Or it can even be one of the d's
21:28:14 <Cale> that "another variable" you mentioned
21:28:40 <Cale> Like, it works out just fine to say we're going to write dy = f'(x) dx and consider dy to be a function of x and dx
21:29:40 <shachaf> Maybe that works fine? I'm not sure.
21:29:51 <shachaf> What does d(dy/dx)/dx work out to in that case?
21:29:53 <Cale> Well, depends on what you want to do
21:30:42 <shachaf> I think the right answer is d(dy/dx)/dx = d^2y/dx^2 + dy/dx d^2x/dx^2
21:30:45 <Cale> heh, sort of -- though the implicit parameter usage is insane
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21:33:15 <shachaf> We only think that because we don't understand it.
21:35:06 <shachaf> I don't think I understand the version you were talking about, actually.
21:35:12 <shachaf> And what's wrong with the implicit parameter?
21:36:29 <Cale> Oh, well, it's sort of okay to take the dx to be the same there, but you're really dealing with a new thing, so you're sort of throwing away a free choice that you would have otherwise had
21:36:50 <Cale> I don't know if that statement I just made is clear enough to mean anything to you :)
21:38:00 <Cale> So, okay, dy/dx is being regarded there as a new function, of just x, since presumably you're not hiding the fact that the outer /dx was really a /\partial x
21:38:04 <shachaf> Is it related to how the second derivative is a bilinear function?
21:39:01 <shachaf> Sure, dy/dx is a new thing in terms of x.
21:39:11 <shachaf> If y=x^3, then dy/dx = 3x^2
21:39:33 <shachaf> Maybe I see what you mean.
21:39:56 <shachaf> oerjan has made the same objection before, but I think it turned out to be irrelevant in his case or something?
21:40:16 <Cale> Well, it's fairly irrelevant because everything is 1-dimensional here
21:40:55 <Cale> The vector space of linear maps R -> R is canonically isomorphic to R itself, and the space of bilinear maps R x R -> R is again
21:41:33 <shachaf> So can we make this notation work in a multidimensional case?
21:41:37 <shachaf> I mean total derivatives, not partial derivatives.
21:42:45 <Cale> The definition you probably want is the one due to Fréchet.
21:43:31 <Cale> In fact, the Wikipedia presentation goes a bit farther than just multiple dimensions, and generalises to Banach spaces
21:44:24 <Cale> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9chet_derivative
21:44:25 <otherbot> [Fréchet derivative - Wikipedia]
21:45:06 <shachaf> Hasn't this bot been requested not to do that in the past?
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21:46:35 <Cale> The idea is that if we have some function f: U -> V between some Banach spaces, then the derivative of f at some point x is supposed to be the best possible linear approximation to the manner in which f varies near the point x
21:46:48 <shachaf> Isn't this just the standard definition of a derivative in the multidimensional case?
21:47:25 <Cale> Well, there are a bunch of other things you can do in order to talk about e.g. directional derivatives and such.
21:48:30 <Cale> this means that the derivative of f as a whole is going to be a map from U to the space L(U,V) of linear maps from U to V
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21:49:31 <Cale> and so we can iterate this, the second derivative is going to be a map U -> L(U,L(U,V))
21:50:04 <shachaf> Say we have the 2-sphere x^2+y^2+z^2=1. We can talk about its derivative, which is a tangent plane at each point.
21:50:11 <shachaf> Maybe that's not called a derivative but something else. I'm not sure.
21:50:33 <shachaf> Is that a sufficiently multidimensional case for this?
21:51:17 <Cale> Perhaps we should just discuss a function such as f(x,y,z) = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 1
21:52:14 <Cale> So, its derivative at some point (x,y,z) in R is going to be some linear functional R^3 -> R
21:52:28 <shachaf> We can do that, and then talk about the function's zero set and its derivative's zero set.
21:52:40 <Cale> So in order to express what that linear functional is, we'll introduce some new variables, dx, dy and dz
21:53:37 <Cale> With (x,y,z) fixed, it's the linear functional (dx,dy,dz) |--> 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz, right?
21:54:59 <Cale> So that, I think, is the easiest way to make some kind of sense of the Leibniz notation -- we're implicitly discussing these functions which are the linear functionals (or whatever) which our total derivative gives us.
21:55:31 <shachaf> With fancy implicit notation, we can "d" both sides and write 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0, and therefore dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dz
21:55:48 <shachaf> Er, dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dx
21:56:00 <Cale> If you do funny things like iterating it, then all of a sudden, you might introduce "dx" multiple times, when really you should perhaps have picked some new variable name
21:56:18 <Cale> But in the 1D case, it *really* doesn't matter
21:57:49 <shachaf> I see what you mean by "function of x and dx", at least.
21:57:52 <Cale> (particularly when you're dividing through by dx)
21:58:20 <shachaf> But the statement "dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dx" is accurate, isn't it?
21:58:37 <shachaf> And the other five that you can write.
22:02:26 <Cale> Assuming that 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0, that's a valid conclusion to draw
22:03:42 <shachaf> What's the second derivative of the 2-sphere?
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22:03:56 <shachaf> moonheart08: Is otherbot your bot?
22:04:04 <moonheart08> after a few months of being lost, i got SFML + visual studios to work
22:04:11 <moonheart08> shachaf, its a bot i HELP with, wlp1s1 owns it
22:04:33 <shachaf> Haven't people requested before that it stop showing URL titles?
22:04:38 <shachaf> I think that's a channel requirement.
22:04:47 <shachaf> Personally I would prefer that it not be in here at all.
22:04:52 <shachaf> But if it is, it shouldn't spam.
22:05:14 <shachaf> Also do your testing somewhere else please.
22:05:16 <Cale> Only HackEgo is allowed to spam ;)
22:05:32 <moonheart08> shachaf, killing it again :P someone must've reenabeld it
22:05:34 <shachaf> HackEgo's spam is on-topic.
22:06:07 <shachaf> Well, to be an acceptable fix, you need to provide evidence that it won't accidentally get turned on again in the future.
22:06:29 <moonheart08> wlp1s1, iovoid, Bowserinator what did you do >_<
22:06:39 <Cale> Maybe the code you are editing is not the code which is running?
22:07:12 <shachaf> Maybe you could take the bot spam to #esoteric-blah.
22:07:15 <moonheart08> brb, yelling at wlp1s1 for moving it again
22:07:22 <shachaf> Anyway, I didn't want a full page of spam in here.
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22:11:22 <moonheart08> shachaf, im sorry about the issue, its wlp1s1 fault this time actually :P
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22:46:15 <hppavilion[1]> |ℕ| is sometimes called ω; is there a nice name for |ℝ| and for |2^ℝ|?
22:46:54 <shachaf> I don't follow. What is |?
22:48:24 <shachaf> The cardinality of the naturals is usually called aleph zero.
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23:03:58 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion[1] ℶ₁ hth
23:05:30 <shachaf> Cale: I've waited, but I still don'tknow the second derivative of the 2-sphere.
23:05:37 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion[1] And ℶ₂ for your second question. (With ℶ₀ = ℵ₀.)
23:05:38 <shachaf> Maybe I should think instead.
23:06:24 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
23:06:25 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:06:27 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you see that photorealistic image synthesis thing?
23:06:39 <fizzie> Probably not, if it's some new thing.
23:06:46 <shachaf> https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.03242
23:07:45 <fizzie> Yes, but why is the #1 'News'-corpora result for that a Daily Mail article. :(
23:09:26 <fizzie> Oh, the Daily Mail article is even about an earlier paper from partially the same folks, about faces.
23:09:46 <fizzie> Oh, not even same folks. I just can't read.
23:10:12 <Cale> shachaf: oh, sorry, I got dragged away by work
23:13:11 <Cale> shachaf: So, you want the derivative of that function R -> L(R, R^3)?
23:13:21 <Cale> that's backward :)
23:13:29 <Cale> R^3 -> L(R^3, R)
23:16:12 <shachaf> Cale: I guess, though I'm not sure I have a definition for that.
23:16:41 <Cale> L(U,V) being the space of linear maps U -> V
23:17:07 <shachaf> Right, but what's a derivative of a function with that codomain?
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23:21:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Raddish0 * New user account
23:21:23 <Cale> Well, the Fréchet derivative applies, though for computational purposes perhaps using the definition directly is a bit annoying
23:22:09 <Cale> It turns out that you can express the bilinear map which is the second derivative using what's called the Hessian matrix -- it's just the matrix of all possible second partial derivatives
23:22:09 <shachaf> Oh, I see, it applies in this case.
23:22:32 <shachaf> The thing it's taking the limit of is in the domain, not the codomain. So it still makes sense.
23:22:45 <shachaf> The Hessian matrix has the wrong variance when treated as a matrix.
23:22:55 <shachaf> I think we talked about that before.
23:23:11 <Cale> It's just, more convenient to write it in a square shape than have a really long line
23:23:13 <shachaf> Anyway this doesn't work in the more general R^n->R^m case.
23:23:24 <Cale> Well, none of this notation really does
23:23:32 <shachaf> That's what I was wondering about.
23:23:40 <Cale> But the Fréchet derivative works
23:24:11 <Cale> Well, and you can always split things up into components
23:24:35 <Cale> If you have a function R^m -> R^n it's like having n functions R^m -> R
23:25:08 <Cale> and you can just differentiate those component functions individually
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23:45:34 <lambdabot> CYUL 152342Z 31017G30KT 15SM IC DRSN FEW025 SCT040 M18/M26 A2996 RMK CF1SC3 CF TR PRESRR SLP150
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23:51:23 <\oren\> Countor used the cardinal 𝔠 for the cardinal of the Reals apparently
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23:52:32 <shachaf> He sure knew how to count.
23:53:25 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: the cardinal of the naturals is called ℵ₀
23:53:57 <lambdabot> fizzie said 48m 19s ago: And ℶ₂ for your second question. (With ℶ₀ = ℵ₀.)
23:54:00 <\oren\> the cardinal of the reals is called ℶ₁ or 𝔠
23:54:07 <boily> he\\oren, hppavellon, lambdabellot.
23:54:36 * boily thwacks shachaf one time. ah ah ah. thwack two times. ah ah ahachaf.
23:56:47 <\oren\> I wonder what ℷ means in math
23:58:09 <hppavilion[1]> It's said that primitive cultures don't have different words for infinities; they just go 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., then everything bigger is "∞"
23:59:30 <shachaf> the gimel calculus. ℷx.ℷy.y x
00:00:06 <boily> I'm no expert, but that feels very lambdish.
00:00:30 <shachaf> I don't eat lambdishes. I'm vegetarian.
00:01:03 * boily thwacks shachaf thrice. ah ah ah. 0.98 FP.
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00:33:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Serprex * New user account
00:36:42 <zzo38> Now I have many more composite modes in Farbfeld Utilities. Mode 23 is like ImageMagick's "change-mask" mode. Mode 70 is similar to ImageMagick's "darken" mode. Mode 24 is like Magic Set Editor's "recolor_image" function.
00:52:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50518&oldid=50513 * Serprex * (+449) __s
00:52:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Inline]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50519 * Serprex * (+609) Yes I'm sure the author is long gone
00:53:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Inline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50520&oldid=50519 * Serprex * (+8) ugh I can never get my posts right the first time
00:56:25 <boily> hezzo38. modes with numbers?
00:56:42 <boily> like a tracker for composing music, but with pictures?
01:01:21 <hppavilion[1]> Are there languages with both ergative AND accusative alignment? So, like, you can have a sentence be SVO, SV, or VO?
01:02:56 <boily> hppavilion[1]: yes, tripartite alignment → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_language
01:05:20 <boily> everything unusual is weird.
01:07:52 <zzo38> boily: Not quite, I think?
01:08:13 <zzo38> The various modes are just to be selected by number.
01:12:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50521 * Serprex * (+995) Let's see if I can trigger the anti link bot
01:14:01 <zzo38> Hopefully the source code will explain it http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/raw/ff-composite.c?name=17f30248cb205ac5f3df07a8f35e79a0acded753
01:19:59 <moony> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/102738113478021120/259127128887525377/unknown.png
01:21:56 <zzo38> Mode 25 allow to use the alpha channel as the Z-order channel (something that I have not seen in other programs).
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01:26:11 <zzo38> moony: What thing is that?
01:26:25 <moony> thats just literally the first screenshot
01:26:31 <moony> read the text in the corner :P
01:35:09 <zzo38> The font doesn't look like very good though to me
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01:40:50 <boily> zzo38: holy fungot that's a lot of numbers in there!
01:40:51 <fungot> boily: i'll do it on that site
01:41:04 <boily> fungot: no, please don't do nothing on nobody's site twh
01:41:11 <boily> fungot: yes, you talk.
01:41:11 <fungot> boily: no need to ask me
01:41:31 <boily> fungot: I must insist. wouldn't want to wash away stains, eh?
01:41:31 <fungot> boily: modulo errors of course then you couldn't inline it.
01:45:00 <boily> moony: mhelloony. it's a thing!
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01:54:27 * moonheart08 managed to cause a Race Condition for forgetting to lock the cursorLock Mutex and then manipulated it at the same time as the renderer read it
01:58:28 <boily> off to sleep... 'night all!
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04:46:44 <zzo38> I have Hocus Pocus in my computer, and the command "dd if=HOCUS.DAT bs=1 skip=31669 count=39081 | display" displays the title screen but it says it is the shareware version. However, the actual game says it is the registered version on the title screen. Why is that?
04:48:47 <shachaf> probably because only the game is registered, not the image you generate from it hth
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05:39:08 <FreeFull> zzo38: Maybe it has a separate offset where it has the part of the screen that says it's registered
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05:59:51 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes it may have that possibly
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06:29:25 <oerjan> hppavilion[1] has a disturbing ability to say slightly interesting questions when i'm not here, that are _just_ not interesting enough for me to @tell him.
06:30:07 <oerjan> (also, my connection seems to be crap again)
06:32:09 <oerjan> ...and then in the next sentence he's saying complete bullshit again. at least he's using a smiley.)
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06:32:48 <oerjan> damn i hate when typing with lag
06:35:27 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i've seen something called "quantum logic". basically a logc of 0/1 valued operators, or of the lattice of hilbert subspaces. i was not convinced it said anything interesting about quantum theory (except for the "ordinary logic doesn't work" part)
06:37:46 <oerjan> (this lag is hell and my patience with typing is hereby over)
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06:42:12 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] for joining without responding. also i'm pasting this from bim -----###
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06:43:02 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I've heard of quantum logic, but I seem to remember it being uninteresting at the time
06:44:43 <oerjan> apparently i cannot type right even when using vim. also yeah, i think making any better sense of quantum is going to need a big conceptual leap that no one's found yet.
06:45:35 * oerjan says bye to hppavilion[1] before the CIA finds him
06:46:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: My friend Brynn dragged me to an after-school math competition thing. We were given 2 30-minute quizzes of Rather Difficult Problems™ and scored. She wanted to see how much she could beat me
06:47:43 <hppavilion[1]> The teacher told us at the end that- apparently- the quizzes were standardized and other people would be taking these everywhere, so we couldn't talk about them.
06:47:47 * oerjan fails to see how this qualifies as a "leak"
06:48:03 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Calling it a leak is a bit of a stretch :P
06:48:37 * oerjan seems able to type again
06:48:48 <hppavilion[1]> It's more of a... well, "leak" is already diminutive. Shit.
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06:50:15 <hppavilion[1]> I did better on the one with roots and logs and stuff because I basically just prime factored everything and worked from there
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07:36:38 <Jafet> it's not tree surgery until you're doing branch cuts
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08:26:09 <hppavilion[1]> Ham... is there a way to generalize Ruler & Compass to allow arbitrary Algebraic numbers rather than only Constructible numbers?
08:27:46 <oerjan> sounds awkward. you need unbounded degree of the equations you can solve, i think.
08:28:40 <oerjan> but my galois theory isn't refined enough.
08:29:23 <oerjan> i think if p is a prime, there's a polynomial of degree p that cannot be solved via lower degree ones and roots
08:29:30 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like, when doing ruler-and-compass construction, you should just define new tools to perform operations once you've proved you can do them primitively
08:30:06 <hppavilion[1]> You can do arbitrary nth roots using only pth roots for prime p, quite trivially
08:30:34 <oerjan> well, any primitive polynomial whose galois group is simple, or something like that.
08:31:44 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I've never actually done Galois theory. As in, I read it "Guh-low-iss"
08:32:18 <oerjan> perhaps that's it: you need to have every finite simple group among those you can solve. but i'm not sure if every polynomial with the same group is equivalent, quite likely not.
08:33:11 <oerjan> i've forgotten most of it, and am not sure how much i knew.
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08:35:39 <oerjan> but i think constructible polynomial roots ~~ galois group has power of 2 size, or something like that.
08:36:23 <oerjan> yes. it's complicated.
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08:38:23 <Jafet> you just need a polynomial compass, which draws a polynomial
08:39:31 <Jafet> (what is the field (?) generated by adding roots of polynomials of its own elements to itself?)
08:40:49 <Jafet> oh nevermind, it's probably still the algebraic numbers
08:41:08 <Jafet> note that once you have a polynomial compass, you won't need the straightedge
08:41:17 <Jafet> because a line is a polynomial graph
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08:42:57 <hppavilion[1]> A good enough square is the product of two perfect squares; a^k/b^k
08:43:43 <hppavilion[1]> The general case of good enough kth powers is the quotient of two good enough kth powers: a^k/b^k (for real this time)
08:45:27 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: But really, what DO you get when you have a straightedge and an elliptical compass- a device to draw an ellipse given the focci and a point on the circumference?
08:45:27 <oerjan> that's the same as kth power of rationals i'm pretty sure.
08:47:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It just excludes, say, the square of the cube root of 2 and such
08:47:44 <oerjan> . o O ( an elliptical compass needs two tacks and an adjustable piece of string )
08:48:18 <Jafet> an elliptical compass constructs no more numbers than a circular one
08:49:04 <oerjan> hm sounds right, it's still a second-degree polynomial.
08:49:09 <Jafet> (before taking any intersection with an ellipse, just rescale everything else in your drawing on the semi-major axis, then it becomes a circle)
08:49:51 <oerjan> Jafet: you need to prove you can construct the scaling factor from the foci and a point, though
08:50:28 <oerjan> hm seems trivial, really.
08:50:56 <oerjan> the point gives you the length of the piece of string, from which you get the axes.
08:51:54 <oerjan> Jafet: um you're forgetting the case where you intersect two ellipses (one of which may be a circle)
08:51:58 <fizzie> Elliptical compasses look fancy. See e.g. http://collectingme.com/drawing/Randles_Ellipsograph/5.jpg
08:53:10 <Jafet> oh, that doesn't work
08:53:36 <Jafet> you'd have to possibly invent algebra and then solve it directly, then
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09:00:41 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: And thus, you (possibly) can't do it with Ruler and Compass, so it's more general
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09:05:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i think he means inventing algebra to solve general second-degree equations, which you can then construct roots of with straightedge and compass.
09:06:31 <oerjan> otoh now i'm having doubts if that really works with intersecting two ellipses.
09:07:31 <oerjan> it's not just one equation, but two.
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09:11:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I think the solution to this issue is simple
09:11:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: We get some graph paper and actually try :P
09:12:41 * oerjan suddenly has this feeling he dreamt of getting paper tonight
09:12:53 <oerjan> and i was somehow annoyed because it had lines
09:14:02 <oerjan> must have been a dream because i don't remember anything like that in real life recently
09:16:16 <oerjan> the kind you write on hth
09:16:53 <hppavilion[1]> (I'd prefer to just use graph paper for everything tbh)
09:17:03 <oerjan> i'm sure they must make hexagonal paper for board gamers
09:17:16 <oerjan> or maybe it's just too easy to print out one these days
09:17:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it had only horizontal lines afair
09:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> (Wait, no; something in the B series actually, with square size of, say, 5 mm)
09:19:40 * oerjan only knows the A series, really
09:20:27 <int-e> odd powers of 2^(1/4)
09:21:04 <oerjan> are they the even powers maybe
09:22:11 <hppavilion[1]> An has a long side equal to A(n-1)'s shorter side and a short side 1/sqrt(2) of that. A0 has an area of 1 m^2
09:22:30 <hppavilion[1]> Bn has the same definition EXCEPT that B0 has a long side of 1 m
09:22:40 <oerjan> so basically, indeed the even ones
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09:31:18 <oerjan> fungot: do you prefer Ai paper?
09:31:18 <fungot> oerjan: http://www.vwfeatures.com/ images/ 1203125875-tetsuoooo.png fnord in an exam, i have
09:42:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Ai would have dimensions 1.118-0.404i m × 0.791-0.286i m it appears
09:42:37 <hppavilion[1]> fungot, apparently, lives in a Hilbert cyberspace.
09:42:38 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: indiana price comparison? ( i may be able to
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10:10:19 <oerjan> "DIN 476 provides for formats larger than A0, denoted by a prefix factor. In particular, it lists the formats 2A0 and 4A0, which are twice and four times the size of A0 respectively"
10:10:52 <oerjan> so i guess A-4 would be 16A0 in that notation
10:39:18 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, for any natural number, An has sides approximately 2**((2*n+1)/4) meter times 2**((2*n-1)/4) meter iirc
10:39:47 <b_jonas> and there's Bn and Cn and Dn and En and Fn sizes which are similar geometric series just shifted by some non-integer offset
10:41:03 <b_jonas> but nobody cares about those series
10:42:05 <b_jonas> you just buy folders for storing A4 or A5 paper, or envelopes for storing A4 paper folded 1, 2, 3, 4wise respectively,
10:43:13 <b_jonas> or notebooks that fit in bags or large folders for storing A4 paper (the notebook is smaller than A4 then), or folders with rings or metalic strips for storing A4 paper with the usual two or four holes.
10:44:48 <b_jonas> Is there a calesyta2016list yet for when they release results?
10:48:39 <oerjan> pretty sure that deserves a topic mention
10:49:54 <b_jonas> ``` t=bin/calesyta2016list; >$t echo 'echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit'$'\nb_jonas' && chmod -c a+x "$t"
10:50:05 <HackEgo> mode of `bin/calesyta2016list' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
10:50:26 <b_jonas> though the odds are high that I made a typo somewhere there
10:50:35 <b_jonas> I should test it while I'm the only subscriber
10:50:37 <oerjan> you appear to not know about `makelist tdnh
10:50:44 <b_jonas> `calesyta2016list drill only
10:50:47 <HackEgo> calesyta2016list drill only: b_jonas
10:51:33 <oerjan> Jafet: we don't know if he'll win. depends on both other submissions and judges.
10:52:22 <HackEgo> name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
10:52:31 <b_jonas> it's not winning I care about
10:52:46 <b_jonas> I'd like to see info being published about the other submissions
10:53:25 <HackEgo> aglist \ bardsworthlist \ calesyta2016list \ danddreclist \ dontaskdonttelllist \ don'taskdon'ttelllist \ ehlist \ emptylist \ erflist \ FireFlist \ flist \ idealist \ ioccclist \ keenlist \ list \ listlist \ llist \ makelist \ makelistlist \ minimalist \ mlist \ olist \ pbflist \ slist \ smlist \ stylist \ testlist \ wrlist
10:54:58 <oerjan> `makelistlist calesyta2016list
10:55:00 <HackEgo> makelistlist calesyta2016list: shachaf
10:56:42 <Jafet> `cat bin/minimalist
10:56:43 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit
10:57:52 <oerjan> `diff bin/minimalist bin/emptylist
10:57:53 <Jafet> `cat bin/emptylist
10:57:54 <HackEgo> diff: missing operand after `bin/minimalist bin/emptylist' \ diff: Try `diff --help' for more information.
10:57:55 <HackEgo> echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit
10:57:59 <oerjan> `` diff bin/minimalist bin/emptylist
10:58:35 <oerjan> Jafet: please don't cat lists that actually have nicks in them hth
10:59:14 <Jafet> `readlink bin/minimalist bin/emptylist
10:59:43 <Jafet> `stat -c%i bin/minimalist bin/emptylist
10:59:49 <HackEgo> stat: missing operand \ Try `stat --help' for more information.
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11:01:04 <Jafet> `` readlink bin/minimalist bin/emptylist
11:01:06 <HackEgo> readlink: extra operand `bin/emptylist' \ Try `readlink --help' for more information.
11:01:32 <Jafet> `readlink --version
11:01:34 <HackEgo> readlink (GNU coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Dmitry V. Levin.
11:02:12 <Jafet> so is handling multiple arguments, apparently
11:12:49 <b_jonas> oh, makelistlist is the list for when someone makes a list?
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11:35:26 <lambdabot> CYUL 161100Z 27006KT 15SM FEW012 M23/M31 A3032 RMK SC1 SLP273
11:35:45 <boily> woohoo. not cold at all...
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17:12:50 * \oren\ is still having problems managing svn with diff and patch
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17:43:48 <shachaf> I'm serious. git is a good alternative to diff and patch. You don't need to use any of the fancy features you don't like.
17:43:58 <shachaf> Why would you use svn with diff and patch, anyway?
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17:48:11 <\oren\> shachaf: to copy changes from one checkout to another
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18:11:57 <shachaf> Why do you have two checkouts?
18:24:52 <shachaf> Why not have git do that for you?
18:26:06 <oerjan> . o O ( when all you have is a git... )
18:26:32 <int-e> shachaf: note that I'm not oren
18:26:56 <shachaf> I know. The question was rhetorical.
18:27:19 <int-e> Why do people ask rhetorical questions?
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18:41:19 <\oren\> how is your unreadable cryptofont working for you
18:43:25 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: OK. It's not on right now. I'm going to enable it.
18:44:03 <shachaf> I don't remember what \oren\ doesn't like about git.
18:44:11 <shachaf> Does all of it also apply to hg?
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19:08:57 <\oren\> shachaf: I would change it so its interface is conceptually simpler.
19:09:37 <\oren\> in particular, there would be no such thing as a "staging area" or "stash"
19:09:50 <shachaf> "stash" doesn't exist unless you use "git stash".
19:10:40 <shachaf> "staging area"... I guess?
19:10:47 <shachaf> In practice I don't really use it.
19:13:56 <\oren\> the staging area is really annoying for the following reason
19:14:16 <\oren\> suppose I edit stuff.c, and then add those changes to a commit
19:14:31 <\oren\> then I edit stuff.c again
19:14:49 <shachaf> That's no more annoying than having to add it the first time.
19:15:26 <\oren\> I should have to add it zero times, like on svn
19:15:44 <\oren\> it's already in the repository!
19:15:45 <shachaf> OK, then just use git commit -a
19:15:52 <shachaf> Which is what I usually do.
19:18:03 <\oren\> shachaf: that commits all files
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19:20:28 <zzo38> Magick image format is similar to farbfeld if the header is set up correctly (set depth=16 and matte=True), so to convert farbfeld to MIFF is only need to replace the header.
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19:20:37 <shachaf> What else do you mean by "add it zero times"?
19:20:53 <\oren\> and in any case it doesnt actually commit anything anyway, you have to use git push to actually commit anything
19:21:54 <shachaf> Yes, you make a commit locally, and when you're happy with it, you can push it to the remote repository.
19:22:08 <shachaf> That's a good behavior. What if you make a mistake?
19:22:21 <shachaf> Anyway, you're doing this at work, right? Don't you do code review?
19:22:50 <\oren\> yes, when the dev repository is copied to staging
19:23:10 <shachaf> You don't do pre-commit code review?
19:23:31 <\oren\> no, you have to commit your changes so that they dont get lost
19:24:17 <\oren\> anyway, git need a command that does add, commit, and push in one go
19:24:26 <shachaf> Yes, but you don't commit them straight to whatever it's called, do you?
19:24:36 <shachaf> The main branch that other people are committing to.
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19:24:44 <\oren\> you commit them to dev, yes
19:25:06 <\oren\> that's what svn commit does.
19:25:22 <shachaf> No code review? This is quite independent of svn vs. git vs. anything else.
19:26:24 <shachaf> https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabricator/article/reviews_vs_audit/
19:26:29 <\oren\> things are reviewed afterward, once a change is saved as a commit in the repository
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19:30:13 <\oren\> if you don't push, then how exactly do others get your changes to look at anyway? do you suggest I email people my .patch file?
19:30:31 <\oren\> like in the good old days
19:32:43 <\oren\> is there a git command to send someone a set of changes in a file?
19:34:00 <int-e> git-format-patch/git-send-email?
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19:37:54 <int-e> but perhaps the proper DVCS way is to have the repo public somewhere so people can pull from it
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19:38:59 <HackEgo> Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good.
19:40:23 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches \ siberia:Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medal was first synthesised.
19:40:45 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
19:41:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: where: not found
19:41:21 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
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19:49:24 <HackEgo> wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/siberia
19:49:43 <\oren\> anyway, what happens is all new changes are committed to dev, then the stuff that didn't work gets reverted.
19:50:34 <hppavilion[0]> If it's just "gwni", it reads like "[the] Goonies"
19:51:32 <\oren\> then that revision is committed to staging, and if everything works out that goes to prod
19:51:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
19:52:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/ \ wisdom/_46bit \ wisdom/a \ wisdom/å \ wisdom/Å \ wisdom/algol \ wisdom/apl \ wisdom/article \ wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder \ wisdom/bbc \ wisdom/bdsm \ wisdom/bessel function \ wisdom/blæg \ wisdom/bogosort \ wisdom/boxmodel \ wisdom/cemental \ wisdom/cgi \ wisdom/chu space \ wisdom/ci \ wisdom/civilization \ wisdom/costume \ wi
19:55:47 * hppavilion[0] . ø Ø ( If gwni fails, it should say "Unfortunately I can't say \"***\"" ("die") )
19:56:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/cookbook \ wisdom/font \ wisdom/lifthrasiir's font \ wisdom/recipe \ wisdom/reflection
19:56:24 <HackEgo> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
19:56:28 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz
19:56:33 <\oren\> they're probly all githubs
19:57:56 <\oren\> also I insist that github is pronounced with a ð
20:00:06 <\oren\> no, it's a ð, [gɪðuːb]
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20:14:29 <\oren\> qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm
20:15:06 <\oren\> huh. there's nothing wrong with my keyboard after all
20:15:39 <\oren\> there must be something wrong with my fingers then
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20:24:37 <int-e> ah yues,f ingerrs, neceri n teh rihgtp lacee at the righ ttimR1
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20:26:45 <int-e> I think I may have overdone it a teeny weeny bit.
20:27:25 <int-e> automation is key!
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21:00:15 <shachaf> \oren\: There are lots of ways to do code review that don't involve pushing your unreviewed code to trunk.
21:00:33 <shachaf> For example Phabricator, which I linked to above, is one way.
21:01:38 <\oren\> anyway, changes that aren't good are reverted
21:02:09 <\oren\> and the commit message for the revert will explain hwy
21:02:42 <shachaf> Did you see the comparison link above?
21:02:49 <shachaf> That's a bad way to do code review.
21:03:21 <shachaf> Seriously, I didn't nearly appreciate how important code review is before using a system like this.
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21:06:29 <\oren\> shachaf: I guess the buttumption is that most changes are ok because of our extensive pre checkin tests, and the fact that we only hire competent people
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21:07:24 <\oren\> or at least, the interview I went through was pretty grueling
21:08:25 <\oren\> so it's one commit out of 30 that gets reverted or revised
21:11:15 <shachaf> I see, the companies that do pre-commit code review do it due to a lack of competent people.
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21:15:06 <shachaf> Phabricator even supports svn. You should just use Phabricator.
21:16:11 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: vcs should clearly be done with a txt of s/// expressions
21:20:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Anirudhb * New user account
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21:25:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50522&oldid=50518 * Anirudhb * (+120) /* Introductions */
21:25:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50523&oldid=50457 * Anirudhb * (+69) Add proper hello world
21:36:32 <\oren\> shachaf: anyway, things go through dev, staging, and then to prod so there;s planty of time for stuff to be caught
21:36:53 <shachaf> For what? Confusing variable names?
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21:38:44 <shachaf> A better way you could have written a function? Lack of tests? Lack of clarifying comments?
21:39:11 <\oren\> shachaf: more like if it crashes
21:39:32 <\oren\> if it crashes then your stuff is reverted
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21:40:48 <shachaf> What if your code only crashes on Feb 29?
21:41:15 <\oren\> if there's something else then it's more likely you'll get an email from another dev
21:42:00 <shachaf> Did you see the link above?
21:43:40 <\oren\> every commit does trigger an email to all devs with the diff and commit message
21:44:25 <\oren\> so everyone knows what everyone else is doing, and if there is a failure, the person responsible is known to all
21:45:22 <shachaf> But presumably there isn't a failure because you run tests before committing anyway.
21:48:27 <\oren\> the tests obviously can't cover interactions between changes
21:49:52 <shachaf> This is sounding worse and worse.
21:52:01 <\oren\> suppose I'm working on component A and bob is working on component B. I might tell bob what I'm doing but maybe not in enough detail, so maybe if we both commit on thursday a failure occurs at the junction from A to B.
21:55:42 <\oren\> then, depending on stuff, either I need or bob needs to fix it
22:04:09 <\oren\> but usually this doesn't happen because we design things to be compatible
22:04:23 <\oren\> and properly isolated from each other
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22:05:28 <shachaf> How does the failure manifest itself?
22:05:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:07:45 <\oren\> shachaf: sometimes it's a undefined reference to, or a missing field, or a test that fails.
22:08:07 <shachaf> Didn't you say you have pre-commit tests?
22:08:39 <\oren\> they take several hours to run
22:08:51 <\oren\> as do the post-commit tests
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00:07:30 <lambdabot> CYUL 162300Z 09006KT 6SM -SN BKN020 OVC035 M17/M21 A3029 RMK SC7SC1 SLP264
00:07:38 <boily> woohoo, above -20.
00:07:53 * boily dances the Dance of Warmth
00:07:58 <lambdabot> KOAK 162353Z 28021KT 10SM FEW024 12/04 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 28026/2315 SLP147 T01220044 10133 20117 53010
00:08:21 <shachaf> It was so cold here a few days ago that I figured out how to turn my heater on.
00:11:00 <Sgeo> shachaf, can you teach the people at my office building how to do that
00:11:18 <Sgeo> Or maybe how to turn the A/C down... even in summer I had to wear a coat in the building
00:12:08 <boily> hellochaf, Sgello.
00:12:31 * boily tweaks his dance to grab some magical energy from California and bring it here
00:15:07 * boily tweaks some more to grill a bagel. getting hungry with all that dancing.
00:25:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50524&oldid=50504 * Redstarcoder * (+479) Add I/D instruction information.
00:28:19 <lambdabot> EGLL 170020Z AUTO 19002KT 3100 BR NCD 07/07 Q1032 NOSIG
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00:34:24 <boily> (No ClouD, maybe?)
00:35:26 * Sgeo vaguely considers playing Pokemon Showdown
00:35:37 <fizzie> boily: No Cloud Detected. (I looked it up before.)
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01:08:38 <boily> hppavellon[1]. there are no clouds, or if there are, they are invisible.
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01:58:43 <HackEgo> studies//Studies show lots of things. Nobody reads them, though. Also: this study contradicts this other study. These two studies agree, but were secretly paid for by the same company.
01:58:59 <boily> studies cause cancer in rats.
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02:37:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50525&oldid=50524 * Redstarcoder * (+43) /* *> */
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03:08:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Set]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50526&oldid=49917 * Qwertyu63 * (-9) Not a stub
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03:50:34 <Jafet> would that be like a minimal language based on underarm cavities?
03:57:21 <Jafet> oh, so it's not at all like a reduced instruction set for aircraft control rooms
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05:01:25 <lambdabot> KFLY 170455Z AUTO 36019G27KT 4SM -SN SCT043 SCT048 SCT075 M11/M13 A2946 RMK AO2 T11091135
05:03:23 <pikhq_> Um. Either that's a different airport than I think it is, or it is a lot colder than I thought.
05:03:49 <pikhq_> Nope, that's the right one.
05:04:06 <pikhq_> KFLY is about half a mile from here.
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05:30:28 <shachaf> Today I was reading about Prometheus, which is a clone of Borgmon.
05:30:34 <shachaf> What do you think of Borgmon?
05:31:04 <pikhq_> Borgmon is rather arcane, but a spectacularly useful tool.
05:32:56 <pikhq_> Weird thing, weather.gov seems to want to give me observations from about 50 miles away when I ask for local data.
05:33:17 <pikhq_> Rather than just the KFLY data.
05:33:25 <lambdabot> KFLY 170515Z AUTO 36018G27KT 5SM -SN SCT028 SCT035 BKN045 M11/M14 A2948 RMK AO2 T11121143
05:33:47 <pikhq_> Hrm, not much change. Guess the front's still coming through.
05:34:25 <lambdabot> KOAK 170453Z 31011KT 10SM CLR 09/02 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP183 T00940017
05:34:42 <moonheart08> how do you read that? >_> its not very obvious
05:37:11 <pikhq_> https://www.wunderground.com/metarFAQ.asp
05:37:28 <pikhq_> It's not an especially easy format to read, but it's a standard one.
05:37:55 <pikhq_> More to the point, it's the ICAO standard, so *literally* every country on the face of the planet produces meteorological data in that format.
05:38:18 <HackEgo> 9991:2016-12-16 <hppavilion[0̈]> ` mv bin/grwfi bin/gwni
05:38:35 <HackEgo> 9989:2016-12-16 <hppavilion[0̈]> mkx bin/grwfi//grep -ERsi "$@" wisdom/* \ 9990:2016-12-16 <hppavilion[0̈]> ` sed -i "s/ERsi/ERlis/" bin/grwfi \ 9991:2016-12-16 <hppavilion[0̈]> ` mv bin/grwfi bin/gwni
05:41:30 <moonheart08> shachaf, look in the logs, its a searcher for Wisdom (by hppa)
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06:06:32 <hppavilion[1]> Is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing#Basis falling into the trap debunked in http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-talk-4?
06:12:21 <zzo38> What kind of trap?
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06:34:59 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: ...the one covered in the second linky. Of "try all the computations at once"
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06:58:33 <zzo38> To try all of the computation at once you will need a parallel computing I think.
07:06:57 <shachaf> zzo38: What do you think a build system should be like?
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07:12:55 <shachaf> Yes, something that builds software.
07:13:03 <shachaf> Well, I guess it can build other things too.
07:13:17 <shachaf> And maybe it does more than build.
07:14:24 <zzo38> I am not sure what you need it for if you already have them?
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07:17:01 <shachaf> I mean a program that runs a compiler, for example.
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08:00:31 <relrod> shachaf: in that vein, what are your thoughts on something like Shake?
08:01:04 <shachaf> I was looking at shake and it didn't look high-level/declarative enough.
08:01:12 <shachaf> But I wasn't looking very closely so I could be wrong.
08:01:19 <lambdabot> Local time for relrod is Sat Dec 17 03:01:18 2016
08:02:16 <relrod> shachaf: I haven't used it before, always wanted to try it but also never had a reason to :)
08:03:49 <relrod> Generally the languages I work in by choice already have established build system conventions (Haskell/cabal, coq/its custom Makefile generation hacks, etc.)
08:04:08 <shachaf> Can you believe every language feels the need to invent its own build system, package system, etc.?
08:05:44 <relrod> shachaf: Tony and Brian were talking about an idea a long time ago where basically package systems become databases of versioned functions, in some sense. I can't recall all the details, but it makes the notion/problem of "library ownership" go away.
08:06:41 <shachaf> Versioning libraries is also scow.
08:06:46 <relrod> Of course, one could think of that as just another package system, and ... well, https://xkcd.com/927/
08:06:59 <shachaf> Except within one project or company or something.
08:07:28 * relrod has never heard that term "scow" before.
08:07:40 <shachaf> The one-big-repository model is too good.
08:08:06 <relrod> shachaf: anyway this idea wasn't about library versioning, but instead worked at the function level
08:09:00 <relrod> I think it'd be interesting to see, at least. Not sure how practical plus I don't remember all the details
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08:58:13 <int-e> oerjan will probably like http://www.surlyqueen.net/loas/2016/12/15/744-ingrained/
08:58:52 <oerjan> i've resembled that comic.
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10:09:05 <HackEgo> bin/gaseen \ bin/gccrun \ bin/genbf \ bin/good \ bin/google \ bin/grph \ bin/grwp \ bin/gs2 \ bin/gs2c \ bin/gs2c.py \ bin/gs2.py \ bin/gs2x \ bin/gwn \ bin/gwni
10:11:14 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: HackEgo permanent changes should _not_ be done in private hth
10:12:20 <shachaf> Oh, those were in private?
10:12:27 <shachaf> No wonder I didn't see them.
10:13:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I figured it would be mostly fixing minor mistakes and rethinking the name and didn't want to spam the channel with it. But good to know.
10:13:39 <shachaf> Some people might say that those names are inconsistent with everything else.
10:13:53 <shachaf> And that the scripts are problematic in various ways compared to e.g. grwp.
10:14:00 <oerjan> i note you did not copy the clever part from `grwp
10:14:11 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
10:14:23 <hppavilion[1]> ...yeah, I saw that and had no clue what it really meant.
10:14:27 <shachaf> that part isn't really in grwp
10:14:43 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's to avoid writing the "wisdom/" part
10:14:55 <oerjan> the shopt is necessary to still include dotfiles
10:17:11 <oerjan> the -s shouldn't be necessary when you use -R
10:17:31 <oerjan> (all the errors tend to only come because of directories.)
10:18:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What's the importance of cd wisdom over wisdom/*?
10:18:16 <HackEgo> `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. `foo +::= bar`. The older `::=` syntax will continue to be supported for orthogonal-compatibility purposes. \ arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go
10:18:17 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, there could easily be other errors.
10:18:34 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: verbosity
10:19:13 <HackEgo> wisdom/amortized \ wisdom/bdsmreclist \ wisdom/eol \ wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/evil throne \ wisdom/hg \ wisdom/hppavilion[42] \ wisdom/oerjan \ wisdom/œrjan \ wisdom/ørjan \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/saucepan \ wisdom/the universe \ wisdom/typoerjan \ wisdom/userweps \ wisdom/אrjan
10:19:29 <HackEgo> amortized:An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember. \ bdsmreclist:* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ bdsmreclist:<oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits \ eol:EOL stands for End Of Lawn. It's often found past the wabe. oerjan requests your presence there immediately. \ #esoteric:#esoteric is the only channel that exi
10:21:19 <hppavilion[1]> ...I could also add a " | sed 's,wisdom/,,'" to the end of `gwn and `gwni to achieve the same result [perhaps I'd need to adjust its exact text- flags, mostly], so...
10:21:49 <HackEgo> אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
10:23:32 <int-e> Yesterday's xkcd isn't so unrealistic... the Internet of Turf is just around the corner.
10:23:57 <HackEgo> amortized \ bdsmreclist \ eol \ #esoteric \ evil throne \ hg \ hppavilion[42] \ oerjan \ œrjan \ ørjan \ reflection \ saucepan \ the universe \ typoerjan \ userweps \ אrjan
10:24:01 <int-e> (but I didn't know that lawn blocking is a thing)
10:39:55 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
10:40:09 <oerjan> i guess it's excluded for being a link
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14:05:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TopBottomStack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50527 * IAM * (+280) Created page with "Two stacks: “top” stack, and “bottom” stack. ^ Pop item from bottom stack and push it to top stack. v Same as above, but with the roles of the top and bottom stack r..."
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15:14:41 <wob_jonas> So, I'm not too surprised that the calesyta2016 results are late, because it can take a long time to truly understand the beauty of real esotericness (as opposed to dumb bf syntax substitutions), plus ioccc has already set up traditions about esoteric programming competitions;
15:14:53 <wob_jonas> but has anyone asked them in email to know if they're at least alive?
15:18:05 <wob_jonas> \oren\: do you still have problems with svn merge or diff or patch or diff3 or whatever? perhaps tell in more detail, maybe I can help, or someone else can.
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17:45:08 <lambdabot> ENVA 171720Z 11006KT 9999 FEW005 SCT017 BKN031 01/01 Q1023 RMK WIND 670FT 19007KT
17:48:00 <lambdabot> LOWI 171720Z VRB01KT CAVOK M03/M08 Q1038 NOSIG
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17:48:11 <int-e> not humid, fortunately
17:48:19 <lambdabot> CYUL 171742Z 03010KT 5SM -SN DRSN OVC025 M11/M14 A2988 RMK SC8 SLP123
17:48:38 <boily> hellørjan. snowy today.
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17:52:27 <HackEgo> IRIXUser: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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18:38:17 <zzo38> I think that there are some problem with Hocus Pocus game. One is that the timer is not displayed on the screen. Other is that you won't lose if you run out of time. Other is that sometimes it will activate rapid fire or three fireballs even if you have not collected a potion; seem to do at random. Also some problem with level design
18:47:49 <zzo38> There are many better ideas that can be done, such as to place switches in way of elevator, or switches that would cause problem to use in space where to shoot up can be helpful, or breakable blocks that if you break them can be make game unwinnable.
18:49:49 <zzo38> The game is too easy as it is so these thing can improve to be more difficult.
18:50:35 <zzo38> (There is also too many pieces of extra fire in the game.)
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18:54:29 <zzo38> What do you think?
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18:55:03 <int-e> About a game that I've heard of for the first time 2 minutes ago?
18:55:33 <int-e> " Hocus Pocus is an action platform game developed by Moonlite Software and released for DOS, Linux, Macintosh and Windows in 1994." -- I have my doubts about that list of platforms.
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18:56:47 <int-e> Anyway, I think I'm not going to play it.
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18:57:53 <zzo38> I think it was released only for DOS, although you can play it on any of those systems by use of an emulator.
18:58:47 <int-e> dosemu exists since 1992, maybe that worked at the time
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19:00:14 <int-e> why does Hocus_Pocus_(video_game) redirect to 3D Realms
19:01:02 <int-e> (I know why, but it's really not very helpful.)
19:02:06 <zzo38> I think also game has too many healing potions too.
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19:09:06 <zzo38> (Although one level has no healing potions.)
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20:01:28 <lambdabot> KFLY 171955Z AUTO 35007KT BKN021 BKN085 M17/M23 A2977 RMK AO2 T11661234 PWINO
20:01:37 <pikhq_> Ah-yup, that checks out.
20:03:51 <lambdabot> KOAK 171953Z 26006KT 10SM FEW200 10/M03 A3029 RMK AO2 SLP257 T01001028
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20:19:55 <oerjan> I'M SORRY YOU'RE GOING TO A PLACE THAT DOESN'T EXIST
20:23:02 <zzo38> Wikipedia says KFLY refers to Meadow Lake Airport (Colorado)
20:28:20 <pikhq_> It's a small airport that recreational pilots fly out of.
20:28:29 <pikhq_> It's also the closest one to here.
20:28:35 <zzo38> It has no IATA code, so if that database does not list airports without IATA code, then that is why it doesn't work.
20:28:44 <zzo38> You should then add even the airports that lack a IATA code
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21:16:39 <lambdabot> LGAV 172050Z 01012KT 9999 FEW035 BKN045 06/M03 Q1035 NOSIG
21:16:53 <int-e> two owl tickets to LGAV, please!
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21:41:49 <HackEgo> Eleftherios Venizelos Intl (ATH, LGAV)
21:42:07 <fizzie> That sounds like it's from a game.
21:50:49 <int-e> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bring_owls_to_Athens
21:52:55 <int-e> also, http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/020228.html "Two tickets to Athens, please." "We don't do that. It's a matter of principle."
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23:07:48 <izabera> a filesystem that uses telegram as an object storage
23:08:38 <zzo38> How to work such thing?
23:09:39 <izabera> idk, one way could be to send your files on telegram to a bot
23:14:54 <\oren\> there exists a scots wikipedia
23:15:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Inline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50528&oldid=43721 * Serprex * (+49) Implementation link (WIP)
23:15:43 <\oren\> https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadae
23:18:27 <izabera> https://pms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadà
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23:21:10 <FireFly> There is also a Swabian wikipedia
23:21:24 <FireFly> and other rather minor/obscure languages
23:27:41 <zzo38> Maybe I should write specification for "compatibility script" for TAVERN. This may be helpful with catalog in order to determine which story files are compatible with which interpreters.
23:28:06 <zzo38> Another thing for use with catalog database might be to add a CATALOG.RDF lump which contain various metadata for a catalog database.
23:31:46 <\oren\> scots would make a good international language.
23:33:14 <zzo38> How do you think so? What features of a language make it good international languages anyways?
23:33:50 <\oren\> it doesn't have as many rare sounds as english
23:35:14 <zzo38> O, OK, yes that is a good thing I think
23:41:34 <HackEgo> Any regular who gives the slightest Rogue One spoiler shall be hunted down in real life and have their intestines removed through their eye sockets. Members would not be exempt if they existed, which they don't.
23:53:15 <int-e> I hear it's a movie.
23:59:45 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Note that, for much-anticipated movies like Rogue One, "spoilers" includes "anything you learn in the trailers"
00:04:22 <wob_jonas> I hear the Millenium Falcon runs out of fuel so the professor tows it with a steam train to speed it up to 88 miles per hour so it can get through the bridge over the chasm even as the bridge collapses.
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00:06:18 <zzo38> I have seen commercials for Rogue One but no scenes
00:06:41 <fizzie> We had a company-organized screening of it.
00:07:26 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Did you modify HackEgo in /msg?
00:07:32 <shachaf> As you were explicitly requested not to do yesterday?
00:07:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I added a learn. I thought that didn't count
00:08:14 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, wisdom entries aren't *really* distinct from commands, I guess..
00:08:32 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: Then you went and did the `? of the same thing on the channel, so I don't know what adding it in private actually accomplished.
00:09:02 <shachaf> They're distinct from commands, but the request was not about commands.
00:09:12 <shachaf> 02:11:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: HackEgo permanent changes should _not_ be done in private hth
00:12:43 <lambdabot> EGLL 172350Z VRB01KT 0500 R27L/P1500 R27R/P1500 FG SCT001 OVC002 06/06 Q1039 TEMPO 0300 VV///
00:12:50 <fizzie> I should've done that when it was seriously foggy.
00:13:17 <fizzie> I guess that's the "FG" part, but I wanted to see if it'd be something fancier.
00:13:33 <fizzie> Because I hear they actually canceled some flights from EGLL, it was that foggy.
00:16:19 <fizzie> Look, here's the Tower Bridge, as seen from the London Bridge: https://zem.fi/tmp/fog.jpg
00:16:36 <fizzie> (Okay, that's not really super-foggy. But it's pretty foggy.)
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00:28:46 <FireFly> I hear Rogue One is a star wars story
00:28:52 <FireFly> I hope that is not a spoiler
00:31:13 <pikhq_> Man! I had $10 on it being a Star Trek story!
00:32:20 <fizzie> I was at a wedding once where one of the guests thought those were the same thing.
00:33:10 <pikhq_> That would've been *real* weird at my mom's wedding if she'd actually gone through with the Klingon ceremony...
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01:40:17 <lambdabot> PAMR 180053Z 00000KT 10SM OVC055 M04/M04 A2944 RMK AO2 SLP971 T10391044 $
01:41:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minscode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50529 * Challenger5 * (+1037) Created page with "Minscode is a simple langauge based on the Minsky machine. It has 4 registers. <code>A</code>, <code>B</code>, and <code>C</code> are normal numeric registers, <code>c</code>..."
01:42:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minscode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50530&oldid=50529 * Challenger5 * (-1)
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01:47:52 <zemhill> irctc271: "!ztest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation.
01:48:29 <irctc271> !ztest test >->+>->+>->+>->+>[[-]>]
01:48:30 <zemhill> irctc271.test: points -33.71, score 3.63, rank 47/47
01:49:22 <zemhill> irctc271.test: points -29.43, score 6.35, rank 47/47
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03:00:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Inline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50531&oldid=50528 * Serprex * (-1528) /* Implementation of brainfuck */ Sorry this doesn't have comments but the previous implementation was broken
03:08:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Inline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50532&oldid=50531 * Serprex * (-1) Micro optimize nops
03:20:31 <zzo38> Can you make up a Magic: the Gathering card that has tribute but not "if the tribute cost wasn't paid"? I can think of a few things that can be done with this.
03:23:49 <zzo38> For example you can write: Tribute 2, Unleash, Undying (this card has no other abilities)
03:24:26 <pikhq_> Foo, {X}. Tribute {X}. X/X.
03:25:19 <zzo38> s/the tribute cost/tribute/
03:27:53 <zzo38> Then make a better one
03:29:09 <zzo38> (A card could also be made that has tribute but that isn't a creature; I have a few ideas about that too)
03:36:29 <pikhq_> "If tribute was paid, each player gets X mana."
03:37:26 <zzo38> OK, that is another idea; instead of if wasn't paid, make it, if tribute is paid.
03:55:43 <zzo38> This is another custom card: If ~ is a card and the ante zone is empty, ~'s owner loses the game.
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03:59:02 <zzo38> If you cannot win with this, then you are not good enough at this game.
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04:02:47 <zzo38> (and if I cannot win with this, then I am also not good enough at this game.)
04:30:19 <shachaf> What if I cannot win with this?
04:31:15 <zzo38> Then you cannot win with this. But, maybe later, it can be figure out.
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07:21:23 <function> is there a nice name for this operation: points.map(_._1) ++ points.map(_._2)
07:21:30 <function> Its not unzipping, but its close?
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08:36:59 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: they are called abundant numbers
08:44:10 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Specifically, I'm thinking about what determines antiprimes.
08:45:44 <hppavilion[1]> sigma_0(n) is equal to the cardinality of the power bag of ςn, or equivalently the product of the successors of the nonzero multiplicities of ςn
08:46:00 <hppavilion[1]> (ςn is the prime factorization of n expressed as a multiset/bag)
08:48:26 <hppavilion[1]> The smallest x with |ςx| = n is, of course, x = 2^n (since changing the prime factorization at all will only increase the number, as 2 is the least prime)
08:50:40 <hppavilion[1]> Basically, my hypothesis is that |ςx|/|strip ςx| (where strip B is the set of values without multiplicities of B)- that is, how "diverse" of a number it is- of increasing antiprimes x will approach some constant.
08:51:01 <hppavilion[1]> There's a nonzero chance this was solved 100 years ago, honestly, but I'm curious
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09:42:46 <hppavilion[1]> Wait. Do Octonions describe transformations in some k-space the way Quaternions are transformations in 3-space, Complexes are transformations in 2-space, and Reals are transformations in 1-space??
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09:58:38 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a name for the property that e(ee) = (ee)e, e(e(ee)) = (ee)(ee) = e(ee)e = ((ee)e)e, etc. for all e in an algebra?
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10:39:22 <\oren\> argh, I got destroyed in HOI4 again. Bulgaria declared war on romania and long story short the USA nuked rome, and I lost
10:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Wait Bulgaria did wha‽- oh, wait, video game
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10:57:12 <Jafet> hppavilion[1]: assoce(eate)(ev(ee)te)e and commutat(e(eve)et(ee))
10:57:39 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: It has to be the SAME e every time, correct?
10:59:49 <Jafet> well, that's a more specific propertee
11:04:47 <HackEgo> [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0420 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ER]
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11:36:22 <izabera> wat-grandma passed away yesterday
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16:04:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NULL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50533&oldid=35148 * Serprex * (+61) Rust implementation
16:10:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50534&oldid=50521 * Serprex * (+304) Inline/NULL
16:13:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NULL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50535&oldid=50533 * Serprex * (+23) Update Hello World! example program with fix from 2006 discussion
16:13:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50536&oldid=50523 * Redstarcoder * (-69) Undo revision 50523 by [[Special:Contributions/Anirudhb|Anirudhb]] ([[User talk:Anirudhb|talk]]) - there's nothing "erroneous" about the current hello world, it requires one less instruction, and is the most common usage for outputting the entire stack
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16:17:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50537&oldid=50481 * Redstarcoder * (+0) /* Non-alphabetic */ fixed *><> ordering
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17:35:54 <Notebook> I had this great idea for an Esolang.
17:36:35 <sam[0]> How do you do it again?
17:37:06 <HackEgo> Notebook: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
17:37:06 <HackEgo> Notebook: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
17:37:10 <HackEgo> [U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] [U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT]
17:37:26 <int-e> I mean HackEgo is just slow again
17:37:39 <sam[0]> But the bot is struggling
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17:37:43 <Notebook> Can I bounce an idea of of you?
17:37:53 <Notebook> Just to make sure no one has already done it?
17:38:34 <Notebook> You haven't even heard the idea. ;^^
17:38:51 <izabera> is it the 976th brainfuck derivative?
17:39:13 <Notebook> I haven't thought of a name for it yet!
17:39:29 <Notebook> But you make one of those old ASCII maps, and that's the code.
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17:39:54 <Notebook> Basically, a mountain 'Â' is 'print'
17:40:31 <Notebook> I just thought of it now, so I'm not sure.
17:41:06 <Notebook> Has someone already done this?
17:43:31 <Notebook> Ok, one sec. Will conceptualize it in pastebin. Brb
17:48:36 <Notebook> Ok, I wrote up the water syntax and usage.
17:48:45 <Notebook> Just to show the general style.
17:49:19 <Notebook> Note that that is just part of the language.
17:55:39 <izabera> what else can you do other than U O ~ ?
17:57:40 <Notebook> It may be a little like Brainfuck in it's printing and character selection method.
17:57:43 <int-e> basically, when looking at an esoteric programming language, the important question is what one can do; what the basic operations are, how data is stored, how control flow works. syntax tends to be quite unimportant (though it can make programming harder and less conventional, see Befunge for an example)
17:58:29 <Notebook> Well, I've decided I'm going to start building it, and tinker with it.
17:59:13 <Notebook> And I'm going to listen to a really amazing song in Japanese! (Which I don't understand. ;^^)
18:08:12 <Notebook> It may evolve a bit while I'm building it.
18:43:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50538&oldid=49690 * Erikkonstas * (+2) LOL JUST FIXED SRS MISTAKE!
18:49:27 <Notebook> I have to go to the store soon.
18:51:23 <Notebook> So that I can get Haskell to work on my iPod.
18:52:00 <Notebook> Unless someone can recommend a better language to write an interpreter in.
18:52:57 <Notebook> This is ironic. There's a ton of you, but this place is really quiet.
18:53:06 <Notebook> It's quieter than some small chats.
18:55:19 <Notebook> I feel like I'm going to be the most talkative here.
19:02:58 <Notebook> Is there anyone who is actually here?
19:04:55 <fungot> int-e: may cause extreme loss of appetite! may cause severe diarrhea and vomiting!
19:05:25 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
19:05:53 <shachaf> `addquote <int-e> fungot is here <fungot> int-e: may cause extreme loss of appetite! may cause severe diarrhea and vomiting!
19:06:06 <HackEgo> 1301) <int-e> fungot is here <fungot> int-e: may cause extreme loss of appetite! may cause severe diarrhea and vomiting!
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19:10:34 <Notebook> Maybe I should make a language purely for the design of IRC bots?
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19:11:43 <Notebook> Just a set of shortcuts for more efficient AI design.
19:12:16 <LKoen> just saw the harry potter movie
19:12:23 <LKoen> (the one that doesn't have harry potter in it)
19:13:25 <LKoen> well, it's good entertainment.
19:13:47 <Notebook> It would also look bad if I watched it.
19:13:55 <Notebook> One of the reasons my name sucks.
19:14:28 <LKoen> I did not understand that?
19:14:46 <Notebook> Everyone makes jokes about Harry Potter.
19:14:57 <Notebook> And having a tiny scar on my forehead doesn't help at all.
19:14:59 <LKoen> well, Harry Potter is not in this film
19:15:16 <LKoen> also I don't think they ask for your name when you buy a theatre ticket
19:15:25 <LKoen> though that may depend on the country you live in
19:15:34 <Notebook> But if I liked it, I could never mention it to my schoolmates.
19:15:53 <LKoen> and if they offer a discount for students / elderly / unemployed / whichever, they might ask for an id for proof
19:16:18 <zzo38> Can you decline the discount?
19:16:28 <Notebook> Anyway, can I bounce an idea off you?
19:16:44 <LKoen> (to both questions)
19:17:10 <Notebook> An Esolang designed purely for AI building.
19:17:53 <Notebook> Basically just an easy to learn DIY AI kit.
19:17:58 <LKoen> do you mean like tensorflow?
19:18:03 <Notebook> But I'd have to learn AI design first.
19:18:48 <LKoen> there are tools, but probably not for "ai in general"
19:19:18 <LKoen> I haven't heard of any tools for decision trees for instance.
19:19:29 <LKoen> (though I may not be the most informed person about this kind of stuff)
19:19:57 <LKoen> zzo38: do you know of any tools for decision trees?
19:20:37 <LKoen> oh I've got another question you might have an answer for
19:20:52 <LKoen> if you had to design playing cards, what tool would you use?
19:21:02 <LKoen> I'm not talking about making the drawing, but rather the mise en page
19:21:05 <int-e> @google "BDD libraries"
19:21:07 <lambdabot> Title: JavaBDD - Java Binary Decision Diagram library
19:21:20 <zzo38> LKoen: I do not quite understand you. What is "mise en page"?
19:21:44 <LKoen> well, the putting everything together part
19:21:44 <int-e> meh, Java... anyway that may serve as a keyword
19:22:14 <LKoen> if I already have images for the cards, and the text that's supposed to go on them, and I want to design the card using all that, what would I use?
19:22:52 <zzo38> Can you provide an example? I still do not quite understand
19:23:08 <LKoen> well, say if I wanted to design a magic the gathering card
19:23:21 <LKoen> or a pokemon card, or any game card really
19:23:34 <zzo38> I just keep everything in a text file, and then you can put them into a SQLite database.
19:23:34 <int-e> You mean just the frame and placement of elements?
19:23:56 <zzo38> To render them, currently there is only MSE which isn't very good in my opinion, although I intend I can make up Texnicard it is better one.
19:24:58 <int-e> zzo38: Texnicard being another of your named vaporware projects?
19:25:15 <zzo38> Yes, so far it is vaporware projects
19:25:20 <LKoen> that's disappointing. I'll probably use a regular image editor then
19:26:38 <int-e> LKoen: I'm thinking that HTML+CSS or perhaps some SVG template may not be the worst options, though a bit low-level.
19:27:28 <int-e> But I don't know your requirements, what will the end product be? Physical cards or some software?
19:28:56 <zzo38> With the more help, we can make up Texnicard more quickly and more better too.
19:28:59 <int-e> I might actually piece the elements together with a library like cairo then (which can generate bitmaps, SVG and also PDF).
19:29:15 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJY195YSUs
19:29:31 <zzo38> I would use farbfeld to read/write pictures, and TFM and PK (as well as possibly an extended metric format) for fonts, and SQLite for data storage and scripting.
19:29:34 <shachaf> Wait, Texnicard is vaporware?
19:30:31 <zzo38> It would be all command-line based, although with an option to use an external text editor perhaps.
19:31:29 <\oren\> for some reason this time Japan joined the Allies and russia nuked berlin, and I lost.
19:31:31 <zzo38> Do you think this is good?
19:32:55 <\oren\> I have to conside that maybe I'm not cut out for HOI4
19:34:23 <zzo38> Sometimes is said only white mana symbol is the new one, but actually all of them are.
19:35:06 <zzo38> Also, the oldest template is a bit different from the Fifth Edition template.
19:35:19 <fizzie> You watch one video of an opossum eating strawberries, and suddenly YouTube thinks all you want to see is opossums eating things.
19:35:26 <shachaf> Colorless is the newest color of mana.
19:35:46 <int-e> colorless has become a color?
19:35:46 <shachaf> fizzie: is youtube wrong though
19:35:53 <zzo38> It isn't a color of mana. Just now there is a symbol for it.
19:35:55 <shachaf> No, colorless is still not a color.
19:36:07 <shachaf> But now a cost can require explicitly colorless karma, rather than any color.
19:36:19 <zzo38> Yes, in a few cases it can.
19:36:22 <fizzie> shachaf: Well, maybe not *entirely* wrong.
19:36:36 <\oren\> basically now there are separate symbols for "colorless" and "any color, including colorless"
19:36:59 <zzo38> Yes, there is now a separate symbol for colorless mana as for generic mana.
19:37:03 <shachaf> Well, those are different in covariant and contravariant usage.
19:37:16 <zzo38> Adding generic mana into your mana pool still results in colorless.
19:37:18 <shachaf> If something produces {1} that means the same thing as producing colorless.
19:37:43 <shachaf> But there's a difference between consuming {1} (any color or no color) and consuming whatever the colorless symbol is.
19:38:06 <zzo38> Yes, that is how it is working.
19:38:18 <LKoen> so what you're saying is that colourless is a colour now
19:38:54 <zzo38> Not really. It is and always was one of the six types of mana; just now it has a symbol which can be use to consume specifically that type.
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19:43:45 <int-e> Hmm, what about an artifact creature that has abilities {R} - $this becomes red until end of turn, for all colors, and "$this gets +1/+1 for each color it has"?
19:44:43 <zzo38> A colorless object has no colors, and an effect like that overrides its colors rather than adding (unless it specifically says otherwise).
19:45:07 <zzo38> You can write "becomes red in addition to its other colors" though.
19:47:34 <\oren\> I've added some new stuff to my font
19:48:49 <\oren\> that did not go as planned
19:49:27 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x309 0x319 | sed s/./ &/g
19:49:29 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /g: No such file or directory
19:49:41 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x309 0x319 | sed -e 's/./ &/g'
19:49:42 <HackEgo> ̉ ̊ ̋ ̌ ̍ ̎ ̏ \ ̐ ̑ ̒ ̓ ̔ ̕ ̖ ̗ ̘ ̙
19:49:55 <int-e> > text "\x309\x319"
19:52:39 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x300 0x319 | sed -e 's/./ &/g'
19:52:41 <HackEgo> ̀ ́ ̂ ̃ ̄ ̅ ̆ ̇ ̈ ̉ ̊ ̋ ̌ ̍ ̎ ̏ \ ̐ ̑ ̒ ̓ ̔ ̕ ̖ ̗ ̘ ̙
19:54:00 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x14EB 0x1504
19:54:02 <HackEgo> ᓫᓬᓭᓮᓯ \ ᓰᓱᓲᓳᓴᓵᓶᓷᓸᓹᓺᓻᓼᓽᓾᓿ \ ᔀᔁᔂᔃᔄ
19:54:50 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x20D0 0x20D8
19:55:06 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x20D0 0x20D8 | sed -e 's/./ &/g'
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19:55:55 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x29B7 0x29B1
19:56:09 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x29B7 0x29C1
19:57:16 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x29E1 0x29D7
19:57:20 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x29E1 0x29E7
20:00:26 <\oren\> int-e: you need a better font
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20:01:03 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x29F4 0x29F9
20:02:22 <\oren\> 𝑳𝑴𝑵𝑶𝑷𝑸𝑹𝑺𝑻𝑼𝑽𝑾𝑿𝒀𝒁𝒂𝒃𝒄𝒅𝒆𝒇𝒈𝒉𝒊𝒋𝒍𝒎𝒏𝒐𝒑𝒒𝒓𝒔𝒕𝒖𝒗𝒘𝒙𝒚𝒛
20:02:36 <int-e> \oren\: only if I cared what was in those boxes but it's not christmas yet
20:02:39 <\oren\> 𝗨𝗩𝗪𝗫𝗬𝗭𝗮𝗯𝗰𝗱𝗲𝗳𝗴𝗵𝗶𝗷𝗸𝗹𝗺𝗻𝗼𝗽𝗾𝗿𝘀𝘁𝘂𝘃𝘄𝘅𝘆𝘇𝘈𝘉𝘊𝘋𝘌𝘍𝘎𝘏𝘐𝘑𝘒𝘓𝘔𝘕𝘖𝘗𝘘𝘙𝘚𝘛𝘜𝘝𝘞𝘟𝘠𝘡𝘢𝘣𝘤𝘥𝘦𝘧
20:03:40 <\oren\> I added some new mathematical operators, and three new mathematical decorative alphabets
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20:10:52 <\oren\> int-e: do you like bold italic letters?
20:13:40 <int-e> well, interestingly they are not displayed as boxes.
20:13:52 <HackEgo> [U+1D63B MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF ITALIC SMALL Z]
20:14:08 <int-e> but as small black ovals with question marks
20:14:42 <int-e> but in any case, I think it's stupid that unicode has those
20:18:11 <int-e> Yes, mathematicians tend to give different meanings to the same letter written in different fonts, but why would unicode need to support carrying that bit of information... and even if such support is deemed desirable, wouldn't a modifier have been enough?
20:18:41 <\oren\> it's stupid, but useful for formatting in text-only channels such as twitter
20:19:08 <\oren\> even if the unicode people think that use is wrong
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20:43:58 <int-e> There's #haskell and #haskell-beginners on Freenode.
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21:09:27 <\oren\> gnu unifont has wrong appearance for U+29C2 and U+29C3
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21:44:47 <zemhill> web.Multiplication: points -42.86, score 0.78, rank 47/47
21:44:56 <zemhill> web.Multiplication: points -42.86, score 0.78, rank 47/47 (--)
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21:48:10 <zemhill> web.Outputdigits: points -32.90, score 5.04, rank 47/47
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22:11:07 <fizzie> Uh. Those things look like regular brainfuck programs, not BFJoust ones.
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22:11:34 <fizzie> Well, somewhat mangled regular brainfuck programs.
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22:13:13 <shachaf> But note that #haskell-beginners has nothing to do with #haskell, it's just a channel some person made.
22:13:39 <shachaf> In particular a person who's an author of a bad book about Haskell.
22:14:22 <shachaf> The fact that it exists is not an indicator that beginners shouldn't be in #haskell, for example.
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22:59:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Kelxquoia]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50539&oldid=33553 * Serprex * (+46) Implemented
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23:01:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50540&oldid=50534 * Serprex * (+113) Klexquoia
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23:02:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50541&oldid=50540 * Serprex * (+0) typo klex -> kelx
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23:08:11 <tswett_> You know, I think true and false ought to correspond to 0 and 1, respectively.
23:08:44 <tswett_> Clearly the boolean value "true" is the "identity" value, as opposed to "false", which is the "inverse" value.
23:09:02 <tswett_> Just like how 0 is the "identity" value in the field of integers modulo 2, while 1 is the "inverse" value.
23:09:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50542&oldid=40587 * Serprex * (+164) ELVM
23:09:10 <tswett_> Especially if s/field/group/
23:09:25 <tswett_> s/field/cyclic group/, even.
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23:21:59 <__s> tswett_: hoon went that route
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00:27:58 <boily> maayoerjang gabii.
00:28:08 <boily> . o O ( bo'loly??? )
00:30:05 * boily logically thwacks oerjan. 0.63 FP.
00:31:14 <oerjan> porthellos get thwacks now?
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00:34:13 * boily rescinds the porthellic thwack
00:38:09 <boily> how's life on your end of the Great Puddle?
00:41:03 <oerjan> out of synch, as usual
00:41:27 <oerjan> also, traces of christmas.
00:42:46 * oerjan suddenly imagines two flea empires on opposite ends of the Great Poodle
00:48:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Whitespace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50543&oldid=44626 * Serprex * (+85) Unfortunately doesn't work on stable
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01:00:01 <boily> hellochaf. where is the Great Poodle, and is it a Pooch?
01:01:00 <shachaf> I don't know where it is, nor its body weigh.
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01:57:09 <zzo38> The AI in this computer golf seem to hit the ball into the water too much, and seem to consider too much importance to improving the lie, and never risks a flubbed shot (even though, in my experience, it is occasionally useful to do so).
01:58:12 <zzo38> Depending on the course this can result in very good scores or in extremely bad scores.
01:58:57 <zzo38> Also, it seem to sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:01:11 <zzo38> The rule of golf does not allow to use device to figure out the distance of anything, but is it permitted to use a map to figure the distance?
02:01:55 <tswett_> `le/rn tree/You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:01:56 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
02:02:05 <tswett_> `le//rn tree//You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:02:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'tree': You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
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02:03:17 <zzo38> Hitting the ball with a lower numbered club can make the ball to less likely to go over trees. Sometimes it causes this problem.
02:04:33 <zzo38> I think a problem may be not looking ahead more than one move?
02:06:24 <zzo38> Also, they never want to use the Texas wedge.
02:10:39 <zzo38> This computer golf game it allow you to design your own golf courses, and then you can play it yourself, or automatically by computer, or play vs computer or vs another person. They are good to do such thing but there are also some limitation. Such as, the shape of area with sand and shape of putting green and arrangements of trees are limited to the built-in ones (although you can define your own shape for the grass and water, and you can decide t
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02:12:06 <zzo38> You can also add rocks, cows, hills, and dragons to the golf course. (Dragons are out of bounds.)
02:16:10 <zzo38> Do you know about rules of golf, and if using a map to figure distance is allowed or not?
02:18:06 <zzo38> It says using a device to figure distance is forbidden. I would think that it does not include using a map although I don't know. I also don't know how commonly maps of golf courses that include a scale are even available.
02:19:01 <zzo38> Before playing it is certainly allowed, and it is also certainly allowed to look at weather forecasts before playing at golf. That much is clear.
02:19:17 <izabera> but you can play in the same field more than once in your lifetime
02:19:26 <izabera> at least you can count the steps
02:20:07 <zzo38> Yes, you certainly can. Counting the steps may not work though since you will not be walking in a straight line, especially if there is water in the way, it is difficult to walk on the water.
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02:21:20 <izabera> there's this thing called pythagoras theorem
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02:25:57 <zzo38> People do sometimes use measuring devices playing at golf anyways when they play by themself rather than a tournament, even though it is not allowed. Also, any computer golf game I have seen will display the distance between the ball and the hold.
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02:30:58 <zzo38> I have played a few different computer golf games and none of them seem to actually implement the rules of golf correctly; they get various things wrong. Most have a fixed set of clubs. One I have seen allows you to select which clubs you want, but you have to select the clubs ahead of time and can't start with less than 14 clubs and then add more during the game play. I have seen a few ways they handle replacing the ball after it falls into the wa
02:32:44 <zzo38> One program automatically places the ball. Another one allows you to place the ball anywhere you want. The correct rule is that it can be placed within a half circle of the nearest in-bounds non-water point farther from the hole or you can place it in a line directly away from the hole.
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02:42:00 <zzo38> How are the label names of scrolls made up in Rogue?
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02:49:36 <oerjan> zzo38: maybe ais523 knows.
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04:42:50 <izabera> do telegram bots have to keep polling all the time?
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06:04:03 <shachaf> Maybe you know the answer to a question I asked elsewhere, which is how much the definition "We say that a lattice L is generated by a set X ⊆ L if no proper sublattice of L contains X." generalizes.
06:12:13 <Cale> Well, it generalises to a fair number of other order theoretical things. Filters come to mind.
06:13:29 <Cale> I think that also probably works for matroids
06:14:38 <oerjan> it generalizes to any kind of universal algebra.
06:15:10 <oerjan> well, at least any variety.
06:15:13 <Cale> Ah, quite true
06:17:47 <oerjan> well, it's more than varieties, e.g. fields and hilbert spaces...
06:18:46 <Cale> But yeah, "generated by" often means something of the sort.
06:19:05 <Cale> That's kind of a negative way of stating it, which probably wouldn't work as well in a constructive setting.
06:20:37 <Cale> What you're really interested in is usually not the absence of certain subobjects, but rather the fact that from the stuff in X, you can build everything in L in some fashion which is more dependent on context.
06:21:23 <Cale> However, the negation there gives you a convenient way to imply that without actually referring to the operations or properties you're interested in.
06:21:27 <oerjan> another way of stating it, then, is that the obvious map from the free lattice on the generating set is onto.
06:22:26 <oerjan> this doesn't work the hilbert space case, i think :P
06:26:02 <oerjan> but it does work for varieties.
06:26:24 <hppavilion[1]> Complex numbers represent rotations in 2-space, quaternions rotations in 3-space
06:27:38 <oerjan> 2, 4 and 8, by obvious multiplication
06:28:22 <hppavilion[1]> Do Quaternions also do rotations in 4-space, and using them for rotations in 3-space is just a special case?
06:29:14 <oerjan> but the analogy between complexes and quaternions isn't very strong if you can't use the same sizes...
06:30:50 <oerjan> there's something happening in 1,3 and 7 because of them, though - you have crossed products. except they're pretty trivial in 1.
06:31:51 <oerjan> and i don't really know how it works for octonions.
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06:35:46 <Jafet> there is no n-space with a 7-dimensional rotation group, so no
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06:38:25 <Jafet> (well, a more obvious problem is that the octonion product is not associative)
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07:04:19 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Actually, that was what I was wondering about
07:05:07 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: I was trying to figure out how that would even work
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08:23:44 <zzo38> Now my Farbfeld Utilities also include HSV (and also HSI; HSL currently does not work)
08:25:59 <zzo38> Another colour space can be "voltage/phase", which can be defined as: Y=H+L U=(H-L)cos(P) V=(H-L)sin(P)
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10:03:23 <b_jonas> Unshelved has made a stupid mistake with reruns: http://www.unshelved.com/2016-12-18 and http://www.unshelved.com/2016-12-07 are reruns of the same strip.
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10:20:16 <int-e> . o O ( maybe the reruns are just completely random? )
10:57:29 <b_jonas> int-e: not likely. they often rerun entire short storylines
10:59:23 <b_jonas> What the heck? So ImageMagick is inconsistent in which coordinate system it uses: the -draw function uses the system where (0,0) is the center of the top left pixel, whereas the -distort and similar functions use the coordinate system where (0.5,0.5) is the center of the top left pixel.
10:59:38 <b_jonas> This hurts. Why don't they use the same coordinate system for every function?
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11:21:20 <Jafet> I suspect that imagemagick's numerous functions are made by numerous thems
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11:57:03 <fizzie> Today the train station signs said my train was for "London Winterloo".
11:57:10 <fizzie> (It's actually Waterloo.)
11:57:19 <fizzie> The stopping station names were similarly mangled.
11:57:31 <fizzie> Actually, I guess this is the wrong channel again.
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12:09:05 * int-e idly wonders how many (as a percentage) of the CaC virtual machines are payed for using stolen credit card information.
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16:03:17 <boily> http://imgur.com/a/30gzG ← I think I should restart my machine...
16:03:49 <boily> argh. even imgur won't cooperate...
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16:07:42 <boily> int-ello! CHICKEN!
16:09:58 <int-e> So what did your computer do?
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16:10:54 <boily> All text labels in Ubuntu's UI could only display the letters "a", "b", "é", "'" and "L". Everything else was blank.
16:11:31 <int-e> Abel, hmm, very commutative.
16:11:48 <int-e> There's a central font caching server, I believe.
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16:16:08 <boily> nah, only a big update that upheaved the very Core of the System. nothing to worry about that a firm restart can't handle.
16:16:36 <int-e> boily: OPTIMISTIC CHICKEN? :P
16:16:52 <moonheart08> boily, what is it with you and chicken jokes?
16:17:16 <int-e> but it's interesting... for a while I had regular font rendering problems in firefox and thunderbird... that subsided...
16:17:53 <int-e> moonheart08: It's FOWL language. It used to be french.
16:19:52 <boily> I didn't see any problems in gnome terminal nor firefox, so I didn't know there was any problem at first.
16:20:02 <boily> moonheart08: chickens are serious business, eh?
16:29:49 <int-e> (Well, that needs spices to work.)
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16:43:10 <b_jonas> "All text labels in Ubuntu's UI could only display the letters "a", "b", "é", "'" and "L". Everything else was blank." => that's a nice one
16:45:25 <b_jonas> I'd had problems where most of the text resulted in garbage after the computer got memory pressure, but I think that was a bug in an older intel video chipset driver.
16:47:48 <boily> driver glitches are the best! on an old laptop I couldn't run too many things at once unless everything became translucid pink rectangles.
16:48:21 <b_jonas> driver bug could also result in the desktop background getting grabled, but that was easy to fix by resetting the desktop background. for the font issue, I had to restart programs.
16:49:30 <b_jonas> In very ancient times, I also had the mouse cursor being permanently invisible, but that was back in the dark ages when I incorrectly told the win32 video driver that the video card had 2MB of video ram when it really only had 1MB.
16:50:08 <b_jonas> I don't count that as a bug, because I clearly set the config incorrectly.
17:03:57 <\oren\> I once ended up with everything in the same font due to a bug
17:04:22 <\oren\> that is, all text on the system reverted to wht i think was an emergency backup font
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17:08:29 <\oren\> ooh, I found an interesting font!
17:08:31 <\oren\> http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.ca/2009/03/xkcdsucks-is-proud-to-present-humor.html
17:08:46 <\oren\> it's a font based on Randall's handriting
17:10:37 <\oren\> oh my god, the maker of that website is totally insane
17:10:57 <\oren\> he writes a scathing critique of every single xkcd comic
17:11:36 <izabera> they do have some valid points
17:12:11 <izabera> like stuff that could be drawn but randall is lazy so we get characters that talk about shit instead of doing shit
17:13:30 <int-e> "[a] vitriolic and bitter collection of unwarranted nastiness about a silly and harmless comic."
17:13:42 <int-e> well at least they're honest about what they're doing :P
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17:17:58 <b_jonas> \oren\: well, most xkcd strips do suck these days, so it's easy to write critics
17:19:05 <b_jonas> as for fonts that try to look like handwriting like that one, they almost always suck because they include only one glyph variant for even common letters, so text rendered with the font looks completely unrealistic.
17:19:26 <b_jonas> you can't have an ugly uneven handwriting but write all instances of "a" and of "e" the same
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17:19:56 <b_jonas> You see that thing a lot in ads that contain heading text with such a font
17:20:16 <b_jonas> it's horrible, and it could be improved easily by a few glyph variants
17:22:41 <\oren\> b_jonas: interesting. I think I saw something once about a metafont font that uses procedural generation to make every letter slightly differenct
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18:03:39 <\oren\> >ooh, I can greentext on irc
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18:18:13 <int-e> all I see is a silly extra >
18:19:26 <int-e> (color filtering)++
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18:29:56 <boily> fungot: are you green?
18:29:57 <fungot> boily: a normal eggdrop and something very extraordinary. why
18:30:24 <boily> fungot: green eggs, then. eggs are good. they pair well with chicken.
18:30:24 <fungot> boily: whats wrong here?"
18:30:33 <boily> fungot: \oren\ is trying to greentext.
18:30:34 <fungot> boily: bigloo doesnt seem to work. then profile. then if schelog runs under pseudoscheme i can use
18:31:43 <int-e> fungot: you nasty little schemer
18:31:43 <fungot> int-e: you tried it on something else now. everything i did is unlikely to do better than _that_. :d
18:32:12 <lambdabot> jameysharp says: It's a drinking game: insert '$' into your working code and see if it still works.
18:32:13 <HackEgo> 1103) <zzo38> It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up"
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18:38:07 <HackEgo> 1131) <boily> topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals.
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18:40:28 <int-e> one of those, I hope.
18:41:46 <int-e> . o O ( hey those are an unholey species )
18:42:12 <boily> i'a i'a chicken fhtagn.
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18:53:27 <izabera> i'd rather kill myself than commit suicide
18:54:37 <HackEgo> 70) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future
18:54:39 <int-e> I'd sooner kill myself than live forever. <-- I believe that sounds better, though it lacks the contradiction.
18:54:58 <HackEgo> 886) <Bike> I've heard the manga of Das Kapital is actually pretty good.
18:55:16 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
18:55:39 <int-e> `cwlprits superexponential growth
18:56:09 <int-e> tswett: I'm disappointed in you.
19:01:07 <HackEgo> warrigal//Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human.
19:01:26 <HackEgo> tswett is livin' it up with the penguins. He's a title under the cruxite in the lathe.
19:01:43 <boily> a dingo with penguins. interesting.
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19:38:23 <HackEgo> 115) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
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19:50:18 <zzo38> What C# stuff is Microsoft-specific?
19:53:23 <zzo38> METAFONT can only output one glyph per slot, so all letter of the same letter will be same way. However, you can change the random number seed and recompile the font to get it differently; another thing that can be done is to make 256 variants of each letter with the same low 8-bits, and then use a postprocessor on the DVI (or just write whatever program that uses the font) to randomize the bit15-bit8 of the glyph codes.
19:54:47 <HackEgo> 1216) <fungot> [...] we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle [...]
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20:15:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mesages-lod: not found
20:15:35 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6d 17h 29m 10s ago: <\oren\> uh... why is the dutch election on the Ides of March? <-- logically it's a very good day for the senate to be closed hth
20:15:35 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6d 17h 27m 24s ago: never mind, that's the part they're _not_ reelecting, it seems.
20:15:35 <lambdabot> hppavilion[0] said 6d 14h 34s ago: Maybe yꙮu shꙮuld just make ꙮ the default glyph fꙮr 'o' in neꙮletters
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21:31:07 <HackEgo> [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
21:31:32 <int-e> I see see see see see see see.
21:32:42 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, are you not familiar with multiocular O?
21:32:53 <shachaf> What about the limerick I wrote about it?
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21:33:47 <int-e> shachaf: just a font issue and this was quicker than checking the logs. I had my suspiciꙮns.
21:34:18 <int-e> anyway, I know it.
21:34:26 <shachaf> You should write a limerick too.
21:35:02 <int-e> At least the second half, I may use in my prose / multiocular o's / but my poetry's alphanumeric.
21:35:08 <shachaf> Today I got an email from a person wanting me to work in Ireland.
21:35:54 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
21:36:09 <int-e> might, not may. tsk.
21:36:20 <shachaf> I think it changed over the years.
21:37:06 <int-e> (and by "font issue" I mean it's displayed as a small box)
21:37:23 <shachaf> That's better than my situation in this terminal.
21:37:35 <shachaf> It's not displayed at all, and it messes up the display of other characters around it.
21:38:24 <int-e> heh, I even wrote a latex macro for the character for the wisdom.pdf
21:39:56 <int-e> composed from \circ and \cdot, it was fun.
21:40:34 <int-e> poetry doesn't come naturally to me
21:41:05 <zzo38> The terminal is mix up because Unicode is bad especially for terminal. (For other purposes it is a bit less bad)
21:41:22 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
21:41:27 <shachaf> I think it's because of a bug.
21:41:52 <int-e> zzo38 is an enigma wrapped in a riddle
21:42:29 <zzo38> O, is that what it is? The AmigaMML FAQ (now defunct) says that it isn't.
21:42:43 <shachaf> It's a bug in my terminal, or maybe in tmux or mosh.
21:45:12 <shachaf> German poetry is acceptable.
21:45:38 <int-e> I'm not sure how that makes it any easier.
21:45:59 <shachaf> It would be harder for me.
21:46:08 <shachaf> But maybe easier if I spoke German.
21:46:13 <int-e> Though perhaps there's more I can steal. Wer reitet so spät durch Nacht und Wind? Es ist der Vater, mit seinem Kind.
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21:47:05 <HackEgo> 1286) <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
21:47:12 <int-e> I forgot about that one.
21:50:15 <HackEgo> [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
21:50:22 <HackEgo> ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
21:50:42 <int-e> wow this doesn't even display properly in gitk (too small)
21:51:18 <shachaf> An esoterician named Jane / Invented a language mundane; / It was merely derived, / But when morning arrived / She discovered a brick in her brain.
21:51:34 <int-e> (enlarged version: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ooooooo.png )
21:51:48 <shachaf> That looks like a space invader or something.
21:53:03 <HackEgo> ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ የሚሰራ የምግብ አይነት ሲሆን፣ የሚሰራውም ከጤፍ ነው።
21:53:58 <HackEgo> [U+121A ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE MI]
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21:57:04 <HackEgo> Smell is a sense, which is particularly strong in old factory sites.
21:57:09 <int-e> (it has a most terrible pun)
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22:12:10 <olsner> shachaf: nice limerick btw
22:14:21 <olsner> I don't limericks, hth
22:29:17 <shachaf> time, ever since its debut, / can't make anything out of the blue; / but that's false altogether, / if you're using feather, / the language that can travel through
22:29:58 <int-e> a person without inspiration / may still find some determination / and come up for one time / with a most painful rhyme / just to die of humiliation
22:34:30 <Taneb> There was a chap studying at York / Who was notable for his unusual walk / When queried, he said / "My knee's made of lead" / That was the last time I ever heard him talk
22:40:39 <int-e> `slwd boring//s/.$/, unless it is done to pigs./
22:40:46 <HackEgo> boring//Boring means of little interest, unless it is done to pigs.
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22:49:30 <shachaf> Unless they are done to pigs?
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23:13:52 <fizzie> Spotted today: esolangs.org reference in the 2014/Q4 issue of a Finnish computaur magazine.
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23:20:47 <int-e> shachaf: just a silly pratchett reference
23:22:15 <int-e> @google 'pig-boring'
23:22:18 <lambdabot> http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Pig-Boring
23:22:18 <lambdabot> Title: Pig-Boring - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki
23:25:51 <zzo38> Now I made "ff-moon" program too.
23:26:37 <int-e> is there an image format that supports octarine color channels?
23:26:51 <zzo38> It is similar to -blue-shift command in ImageMagick but is more generalized and anyways it does not actually blue shift anything, so I called it moon instead.
23:27:11 <zzo38> int-e: Not what I know of.
23:27:38 <shachaf> int-e: The boring means of little interest are being done to pigs?
23:29:20 <int-e> shachaf: when done to pigs, boring does not mean of little interest.
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23:30:00 <int-e> I won't mind if I wake up and find that addendum reverted.
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01:30:48 <shachaf> Cale: As the first player, with Thorium Dynamo: DD-D1-DD, or DD-D1-1?
01:34:28 <zzo38> Do you understand how this program is working? http://git.imagemagick.org/repos/ImageMagick/blob/master/MagickCore/fx.c#L3708 Is there an explanation anywhere?
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01:54:56 <fizzie> (It's a famous song, I can't not see the substring "plasma" and not think of it.)
02:01:27 <boily> fizziello. it doesn't appear to be on youtube.
02:03:18 <fizzie> Okay, so it's not *that* famous.
02:03:40 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCLZ7P0Kw0U
02:04:06 <fizzie> It's from the byterapers collection of Finnish demoscene music, http://www.byterapers.scene.org/scene-music.htm
02:04:17 <zzo38> Is there a direct link to that file?
02:04:45 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1nMhWc1Kok
02:05:04 <fizzie> That would be ftp://ftp.byterapers.com/pub/extra/modules-humorouscollection/sin-leimeri.xm but it's not really relevant to your original question, and also the singing, it's in Finnish.
02:05:19 <fizzie> Actually, those links seem to have rotted away. :/
02:05:44 <fizzie> I have my mirror at https://zem.fi/tmp/byterapers-modules-humorouscollection/sin-leimeri.xm anyway.
02:05:44 <zzo38> Ah, OK. I am not so good at Finnish anyways. I am not Finished.
02:08:55 <fizzie> The lyrics go approximately: "[expletive] I'm not a lamer / I can make a plasma effect / [expletive] I'm not a lamer / I'm just like Jmagic". (That would be Jmagic of Complex.)
02:10:49 <tswett_> `quote non-Microsoft-specific
02:10:58 <HackEgo> 115) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
02:11:25 <Sgeo> That quote may be old
02:11:45 <tswett_> I'm implementing my database query language in C#. I'm doing all the development under Linux, with only FOSS tools.
02:11:57 <tswett_> Honestly, I'd much rather be using Visual Studio!
02:12:36 <zzo38> If you have Visual Studio, use it then, but then don't use Microsoft-specific stuff, and then it will work on Linux too and other people can also to do the development under Linux with only FOSS tools.
02:12:48 <\oren\> my favorite database is the good old directory full of csv files
02:13:05 <tswett_> Yeah... I don't think I have any actual reason not to use Visual Studio.
02:14:07 <Sgeo> Clearly you should use Tcl. Because something recently reminded me of Tcl despite its terribleness for anything practical and/or security sensitive
02:19:40 <tswett_> Now, I've thought a lot about doing mathematics without any ambient theory.
02:21:41 <tswett_> Nothing but sequences of symbols, and rules that you come up with.
02:22:17 <zzo38> Is that like typographical mathematics?
02:22:32 <tswett_> Want to talk about the integers? Haha, there's no such thing as "the integers". You need to come up with a sequence of symbols that you feel *represents* the integers, and then you can study those symbols.
02:22:45 <zzo38> ("Typographical" in the way that was meant in Godel Escher Bach)
02:23:17 <tswett_> zzo38: yeah, a lot like that.
02:23:18 <boily> one chicken, two chickens, three chickens...
02:23:43 <tswett_> What I've found is that it seems to be a pretty miserable experience.
02:24:19 <Cale> shachaf: How many Dynamos do you want? How aggressive is the set? The only real downside to Thorium is that it cripples your ability to rush and defend against really early rushes somewhat.
02:24:31 <Cale> shachaf: Otherwise, I'd say just get as many as you can fit.
02:24:48 <shachaf> Well, it squanders one energy to build the dynamo at that point.
02:25:09 <shachaf> Is it worth it in the case that there's no immediate attack coming?
02:25:30 <Cale> That's fair, though I would suspect you make the value back in most cases, just because Thorium is a better unit than drone.
02:26:16 <shachaf> Depends on things like how much green you need and whether you expect to get breached, I guess.
02:26:22 <shachaf> Though with the dynamo green is always good.
02:27:15 <tswett_> So now I want to find a really conservative mathematical framework to work inside of.
02:27:58 <tswett_> ZFC? Puh-lease! You can't even convince me that that's consistent.
02:28:18 <tswett_> (Or maybe you can, I dunno.)
02:29:00 <tswett_> If you can define the Ackermann function in it, it's too strong for me.
02:38:48 <boily> boom. killed Antaeus.
02:41:52 <Cale> Yeah, the green can always be converted to gold at some point, but unless you have just the right amount of green production, it might be locked away for a turn or so. It's still very efficient in the long run, and even if you're defending, it's always handy to be able to make a forcefield here and there.
02:42:33 <shachaf> Of course if you're heavy on the dynamos you might not be able to make many forcefields.
02:42:42 <Sgeo> I assume this is Prismata discussion but I don't recognize dynamos
02:42:58 <Sgeo> Wake me up to prismata when there's a good single-player runthrough to make me not terrible
02:43:09 <Cale> http://cale.hn.org/reflex/PrismataUnits/PrismataUnits.jsexe/
02:45:20 <Cale> tswett_: Not accepting the Ackermann function is pretty extreme :)
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02:59:41 <tswett_> Cale: nah, that's not extreme.
03:00:00 <tswett_> Extreme would be only admitting functions that are constant except on finitely many inputs.
03:01:17 <tswett_> f(x) = 2x? Nope, infinite image.
03:02:53 <tswett_> f(x) = 15? Yep, that's permitted.
03:03:21 <hppavilion[1]> tswett_: This reminds me of something I think about every once in a while: Finite-domain functions. Is there some branch of math dedicated to them?
03:04:10 <tswett_> hppavilion[1]: hmm, dunno.
03:04:27 <hppavilion[1]> In general playing with domain and codomain is interesting
03:05:54 <tswett_> So, we all know what a primitive-recursive function is.
03:06:03 <tswett_> It's a function defined by such-and-such blah blah blah rules.
03:06:43 <hppavilion[1]> ¦ is an operation f ¦ S (function f, set S) which yields a function f'
03:07:22 <tswett_> I wonder if there's some "well-known" concept of a "primitive-recursive proof of equality of two primitive-recursive functions".
03:07:45 <hppavilion[1]> f' is defined for all values which are in dom(f) ∩ S as the same as f; f' is undefined for any values not in dom(f) ∩ S
03:08:06 <shachaf> Why restrict it to finite domains?
03:08:15 <shachaf> https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/X11re8mVHBR
03:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That one isn't restricted to finite domains
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03:17:06 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNEEEEEEEEEEEER! :D :D :D
03:17:33 <boily> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
03:24:20 <boily> playing crawl. won. fifteen.
03:24:29 * boily 's brains are on the fritz
03:28:32 <boily> morgue now online → http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/pfcuttle/morgue-pfcuttle-20161220-031651.txt
03:36:18 <zzo38> I found that the source code for ImageMagick does actually include a coder for sixel graphics, although it seem not compiled in, and is not listed on the webpage or on the "convert -list format". Sixel format is also one of the format I intend to support in Farbfeld Utilities. You can also contribute formats and/or effects if you want to do so.
03:36:39 <zzo38> (either suggestions or codes (or both) can be contributed, according to your choice)
03:36:53 <zzo38> (you may also contribute examples/documentation if you want to)
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04:23:48 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn currying//Functions are curried by taking curry(f)
04:23:56 <HackEgo> Learned 'currying': Functions are curried by taking curry(f)
04:24:01 <hppavilion[1]> (the joke would work better if it required multiple arguments...)
04:24:50 <HackEgo> currying//Functions are curried by taking curry(f).
04:30:37 <Jafet> (15? that's too many runes!)
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04:47:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Smurf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50544&oldid=36127 * Challenger5 * (+136)
04:47:27 <HackEgo> [U+035C COMBINING DOUBLE BREVE BELOW]
05:00:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Sclipting]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50545&oldid=44707 * Challenger5 * (+371)
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05:10:23 <izabera> how long does it take to learn how to solder?
05:10:53 <izabera> there's a company that's hiring and on that page they mention that people must "Be OK wielding the occasional soldering iron."
05:11:06 <izabera> among a bunch of other stuff
05:11:22 <pikhq_> Get a soldering iron, a PCB you don't mind fucking up, and an afternoon.
05:12:07 <pikhq_> You won't be doing SMD stuff after that, but you'll be alright after a couple hours practicing.
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05:49:40 <zzo38> I made a plasma drawing program that work similar to the one in ImageMagick, although my program is much shorter and also a bit more versatile.
05:50:31 <zzo38> (The part of the program of ImageMagick to implement such thing is approx 4 times bigger than mine, to my estimation.)
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08:19:48 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bImJMH9FXPA
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09:46:00 <oerjan> the spammers seem not to have noticed.
09:49:38 <fizzie> I think I get most of my non-English spam in Swedish.
09:50:16 <oerjan> i think i got a norwegian one as well
09:50:51 <oerjan> (i'm not entirely sure it wasn't english)
09:50:51 <fizzie> "Hej! Vi söker personal för distansarbete."
09:51:20 <oerjan> does the work involve sending email to people
09:52:04 <fizzie> They don't actually say. They just say it's for "ett stort, internationellt företag", and that it pays 3000-6000 EUR/month, but not at all what the company does or I would do.
09:52:48 <oerjan> it's ok i'm sure they'll tell you for a small fee
09:54:39 <izabera> you'll have to write spambots
09:54:57 <fizzie> The message body is always the same, except that the name of the sender is random (I've got "Harriett", "Crystal", "Meghan", "Avis" and "Archie") and the subject line alternates between "deltidstjänst", "Samarbete med stor firma" and "Det underbara arbetet i kris!".
09:55:08 <fizzie> (Those names sound a little non-Swedish.)
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09:55:48 <oerjan> maybe. i could imagine a swede named Crystal.
10:08:07 <lambdabot> PAMR 200953Z 00000KT 1/4SM FZFG VV003 M08/M09 A2898 RMK AO2 SLP815 I1000 T10781094 $
10:08:15 <lambdabot> ENVA 200950Z 11008KT CAVOK 01/00 Q1015 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15012KT
10:08:39 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: _two_ slashes? what is this heresy
10:10:43 * oerjan hands hppavilion[1] some glasses
10:11:17 <hppavilion[1]> I had a migraine earlier today; maybe it's coming back
10:11:31 <lambdabot> EGLL 200950Z 11008KT CAVOK 05/03 Q1022
10:11:34 <hppavilion[1]> I saw that, but I figured you meant either consecutive or grouped slashes
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10:51:53 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> hilsner <-- did you know that's a common misspelling of the norwegian word for "greetings" hth
11:22:43 <lambdabot> LOWI 201050Z 26013KT 220V280 9999 FEW080 04/M05 Q1023 WS R26 NOSIG
11:23:13 <int-e> well, 50%, apparently
11:34:26 <izabera> how do i bypass mod_security?
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11:37:37 <izabera> several sites are rejecting my bot that posts the title of a page and posts it on irc
11:37:47 <izabera> with user agent Mozilla/4.0
11:56:49 <int-e> hmm. in an apache configuration context, "SecRuleEngine Off"?
12:05:06 <int-e> izabera: anyway, perhaps the user-agent isn't real enough. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/50.0
12:05:20 <int-e> they usually come with a ton of additional information
12:05:38 <int-e> other ideas include cookies; I imagine one could even look at the Accept-* headers.
12:06:43 <izabera> int-e: i tried exactly that a few minutes ago
12:07:02 <int-e> maybe your IP got flagged
12:07:25 <int-e> I actually have no clue what mod_security really does.
12:11:27 <fizzie> Have you considered not posting titles of pages?
12:12:22 <izabera> have you considered minding your own business?
12:12:39 <FireFly> I don't mind posting titles, but I don't think I'd go out of my way to try to circumvent things like that honestly
12:12:46 <FireFly> well, maybe spoofing user-agent since that is common enough
12:12:53 <izabera> it's not posting them in this channel
12:13:48 <fizzie> It was what's called an opinion.
12:16:11 <fizzie> That's the beauty of IRC, you don't even have to ask.
12:16:25 <fizzie> How about capturing a request from a real browser and replaying it as-is?
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12:33:26 <izabera> curl -A "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:50.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/50.0" -H "Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8"
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15:42:17 <HackEgo> fternoon//Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners.
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17:55:24 <\oren\> Ugh, another blody test failure
18:04:22 <boily> he\\oren\. what fails?
18:09:27 <\oren\> the continuous testing failed and my commit was reverted
18:10:42 <\oren\> now I have to figure out what went wrong, fix it, run the pre-checkin tests for 4 hours, and then commit and hope that during that 4 hours noone comitted anything that conflicts
18:11:41 <boily> that's fscking stupid.
18:12:18 <\oren\> and most of that is compiling
18:12:58 <\oren\> which for some reason is always compiling the same code over and over because of templates
18:13:12 <\oren\> stupid c++ templates. not even once.
18:13:58 <Zarutian> reminds me of an univeristy shared shell host policy "No long running processes! They will be killed and the infraction noted". So many CompSci students in tears because their compilations were killed.
18:15:07 <\oren\> wait wouldn't an interactive bash shell or editor be long-running?
18:15:07 <\oren\> or does it only count cpu time
18:16:25 <\oren\> c++ templates really invalidate the whole separate compilation idea
18:17:00 <\oren\> it would be faster to concatenate all the files in the whole project and comoile that
18:17:08 <Zarutian> cpu time was first measure (to factilate load shedding and keep the host responsive) then if a process had been resident for more than four hours in memory it got more agressively swapped out.
18:17:34 <Zarutian> \oren\: that is what c++ templates compilation DOES, iirc
18:18:50 <\oren\> well we don't... we have thousands of .o files containing identical instantiations of templates and then we link them and somehow the linker knows to throw away all but one. or maybe it doesn't. i dunno
18:20:34 <\oren\> in other words we're using separate compilation, but compiling everything all in one go would almost certainly be faster.
18:20:50 <\oren\> because of all the wasted work
18:27:09 <Zarutian> re that university policy: the fun thing was that anyone could invoke hogkick command that looked at the longest running or most consumptive process, if went over a certain precentage killed that and kicked the user that instanciated it off the system with a stern message on not hogging shell host resources.
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18:44:21 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.
18:44:32 <HackEgo> C Pound is Java's good twin.
18:45:29 <HackEgo> Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication.
18:47:54 <HackEgo> U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN \ UTF-8: c2 b0 UTF-16BE: 00b0 Decimal: ° \ ° \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ET (European Number Terminator) \ \ U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE \ UTF-8: e2 80 8b UTF-16BE: 200b Decimal: ​ \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
18:48:20 <HackEgo> U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE \ UTF-8: e2 80 8b UTF-16BE: 200b Decimal: ​ \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral)
18:48:43 * \oren\ grumbles about it not looking zero width to him.
18:55:32 <\oren\> `c printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");
18:55:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: c: not found
18:55:43 <\oren\> `cc printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");
18:55:49 <HackEgo> <stdin>:1:1: error: missing terminating " character \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
18:56:07 <\oren\> `cc 'printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");'
18:56:10 <HackEgo> <stdin>:1:1: error: missing terminating ' character \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
18:56:47 <\oren\> `` cc printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");
18:56:50 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `cc printf("\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40");'
18:57:25 <\oren\> `` echo -e '\x40\xe2\x80\x8b\x40'
18:59:11 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/0ObAYc.jpg
19:00:26 <ybden> Ew. An image sharing website which requires JS to view images
19:14:51 <\oren\> oh apparently iterm2 dispalys it properly
19:15:44 <zzo38> The image sharing service should not even require HTML; just JPEG or PNG
19:16:38 <\oren\> https://i.snag.gy/0ObAYc.jpg
19:18:20 <zzo38> OK, that works fine ImageMagick will display it
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19:57:46 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2IbobdwL3w
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20:54:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50546&oldid=49042 * Challenger5 * (+457)
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21:27:39 <lambdabot> oerjan said 10h 35m 46s ago: <shachaf> hilsner <-- did you know that's a common misspelling of the norwegian word for "greetings" hth
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22:34:56 <hppavilion[1]> Is it possible to express all positive algebraic as a unique product of primes, each raised to a rational power?
22:39:19 <izabera> can you do it with sqrt(2)+sqrt(3)?
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23:07:02 <\oren\> hmm... what if you ranked all algebraic numbers by how simple it is to express them in reverse polish notation with the symbols 1-+*/^
23:09:31 <izabera> isn't that polish and not reverse polish?
23:10:02 <\oren\> i think polish notation is where you treat everyhting as a function
23:10:15 <rdococ> if 0 was just '' I think we'd run into the same problems polish/reverse polish were trying to fix...
23:10:50 <FireFly> polish is prefix and reverse polish is postfix, yeah
23:11:04 <\oren\> 4:'11+11++' 6:'111++11+*'
23:11:22 <izabera> pick a name for this thing
23:11:25 <FireFly> <\oren\> or perhaps just '1-' ← the befunge approach, I like it
23:11:59 <FireFly> I love abusing the zero-on-stack-underflow behaviour in codegolf
23:12:20 <\oren\> I'll call it "unary rpn numerals"
23:13:59 <\oren\> and basically, a number's unary rpn rank is the number of symbols in the minimum string that places that nubmer on top of the stack
23:17:37 <izabera> `` echo 'sed "s/./& /g;s/.*/20k&p/" <<< "$*" | dc' > bin/unaryrpn; chmod +x bin/unaryrpm; unaryrpm 111+/
23:17:43 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `bin/unaryrpm': No such file or directory \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: unaryrpm: command not found
23:17:58 <izabera> `` echo 'sed "s/./& /g;s/.*/20k&p/" <<< "$*" | dc' > bin/unaryrpn; chmod +x bin/unaryrpn; unaryrpn 111+/
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23:21:44 <rdococ> ooh you implemented it
23:21:59 <rdococ> so what will 111-/ equal in your specification?
23:23:23 <FireFly> what befunge-98 impls do we have?
23:23:26 <\oren\> oh i guess in this implementation 11- is needed for 0
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23:23:35 <izabera> `` echo 'sed "s/./ &/g;s/.*/20k0&p/" <<< "$*" | dc' > bin/unaryrpn; unaryrpn 1-
23:24:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cfunge: not found
23:24:26 <HackEgo> ibin/befunge \ ibin/befunge98 \ interps/cfunge/build/cfunge \ interps/cfunge/build/CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/lib/libghthash/cfunge_mempool.c.o \ interps/cfunge/build/CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/funge-space/funge-space.c.o \ interps/cfunge/cfunge \ interps/cfunge/cfunge-src/cmake/modules/CfungeCheckCflag.cmake \ interps/cfunge/cfunge-src/cmake/modules/Cfu
23:25:09 <HackEgo> 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
23:25:47 <FireFly> oh right, only integers though
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23:38:53 <zzo38> Inspiration of what?
23:39:20 <rdococ> help me import inspiration;
23:44:51 <rdococ> imagine a fuzzy 50% value - and two variables, x and y, which have this value... now, x & !x should be intuitively 0, but x & y isn't necessarily 0
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23:46:09 <rdococ> heya hppa... long time no see... I am exhausted
23:48:01 <rdococ> I just brought up the topic of fuzzy logic...
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00:23:06 <rdococ> okay, here's a thought experiment
00:23:28 <rdococ> imagine a fuzzy logic system, in which two variables, x and y, are both at 50%.
00:23:52 <rdococ> now, x & !x should be 0%, right? even if the quantum probability did collapse, it can only be one or the other, not both.
00:24:15 <rdococ> but since x and y aren't related, their combined probability is 25%.
00:24:45 <rdococ> ...hppa? any thoughts?
00:27:03 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ...I don't think this is quantum, this is just normal probability
00:27:26 <rdococ> ...yeah you're probably right.
00:27:43 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Look up "probability amplitude" for funly quantumerific stuff
00:27:51 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: And fuzzy logic isn't necessarily probabilistic, it's just based on degree-of-trueness
00:29:09 <rdococ> but the idea still stands
00:44:35 <rdococ> unfortunately, wikipedia is the worst thing ever for learning (I had to find a demonstration website for quaternions... then I finally got them)
00:52:08 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I wouldn't say it's the worst thing ever for learning
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00:58:34 * boily lightly mapoles hppavilion[1] because I haven't mapoled anybody in a while
01:02:32 <Zarutian> so, anyone here affected by DropBox decision?
01:03:45 <hppavilion[1]> Do I need to delete my account (which has nothing really in it)?
01:04:07 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: the decision to drop the ball on their Public Folders
01:05:10 <Zarutian> breaking links on the web left and right
01:07:40 <Zarutian> thinking about adding rewriting feature in BBforum software so that any directly linked image hosted by a DropBox Public Folder
01:07:48 <HackEgo> olist 1061: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
01:07:51 <tswett_> Aaand DNS somehow isn't working.
01:08:01 <tswett_> This seems to tend to happen when I'm using certain public wiffies.
01:08:30 <Zarutian> hppavilion[1]: well people have to until end of March in 2017 but who is really going to go and notify all forums and people they have shared public folder links with?
01:08:47 <Jafet> breaking news: dropbox reaffirms that it is not a web hosting provider
01:09:27 <Zarutian> Jafet: breaking news, dropbox performs an bait and switch manouver over decades timescale
01:12:16 <Jafet> that's quite impressive, given that they have been around for under a decade
01:13:37 <Jafet> tswett_: clearly you should use Public DNS with public wifi
01:18:09 <boily> hellochaf. thachaf.
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01:20:19 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fGwanAJk8c
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01:30:32 <Zarutian> Jafet: "over decades timescale" is just my indication of the size of the timescale 'unit' in this context, nothing more.
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02:51:31 <\oren\> I ate a giant platter of wienerschnitzel, bread and fried sausages
02:51:56 <\oren\> I need to lie down and digest this meal
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03:40:50 <zzo38> I have some difficulty to understand any colour quantization algorithms, a bit
03:41:33 <zzo38> And, I would hope that my program it can support generating a palette even if some entries are fixed, and later to also add support for HAM and EHB modes.
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04:35:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Thoga31 * New user account
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05:05:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50547&oldid=50522 * Thoga31 * (+265) /* Introductions */
05:05:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50548 * Thoga31 * (+1260) Created page with "'''Morsefuck''' is an esoteric language completely based on Brainfuck. It is inspired by the obfuscation created by this language, but taking it even further. It was created o..."
05:06:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50549&oldid=50333 * Thoga31 * (+16) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
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05:16:42 <hppavilion[0]> ...I've been too subtle. I'm taking a more extreme approach.
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05:18:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50550&oldid=50548 * Hppavilion1 * (+105) It's dark times we're living in. Dark times indeed.
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05:20:50 <hppavilion[0]> thoga31: Oh, didn't notice you joined the channel.
05:21:35 <hppavilion[0]> thoga31: I'm hppavilion[0], current chief of bf derivative control
05:21:49 <thoga31> No problem, I already seen the page. I'm sorry, in fact I dind't read it.
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05:22:12 <hppavilion[1]> I've been considering with other members of this channel creating a dedicated page for minor derivations
05:22:33 <hppavilion[1]> Because there are *so* many derivatives that, if you click "Random Page", you statistically wind up in a derivative about half the time
05:22:47 <thoga31> I don't wnat to cause any "trouble"; so to speak :)
05:23:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50551&oldid=50550 * Thoga31 * (-1365) Blanked the page
05:23:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50552&oldid=50551 * Thoga31 * (+1365)
05:25:27 <thoga31> I just created this for fun, in fact. A friend of mine challanged me to implement a brainfuck interpreter in Free Pascal and Python, and on the way I "created" this
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05:28:50 <thoga31> hppavilion[1]: My interpreter runs the Towers of Hanoi program by Clifford Wolf (though a bit slow). It uses LOTS of []s
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05:55:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50553 * Hppavilion1 * (+4418) The Final Solution
06:03:02 <pikhq_> Eh, fair 'nough. I've literally written Brainfuck interpreters out of sheer boredom before...
06:03:42 <pikhq_> Don't really touch the stuff.
06:24:32 <zzo38> Another thing to write if you intend to write computer program but do not know what to write is you try to contribute to stuff such as my Farbfeld Utilities and so on.
06:32:49 <zzo38> It is a possibility, although there is also many other possibility, such as to make an experiment
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06:54:49 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vco2UhQMX8
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06:55:11 <\oren\> I can't delete pages either
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07:27:34 <Jafet> you could create a mediawiki template to generate articles for brainfuck derivatives
07:29:45 <Jafet> ...and, after that, a template for trivial stack languages
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08:56:35 <zgrep> "This esoteric programming language has been encoded in the MediaWiki templates within this wiki. To use it, simply create a page in the following sandbox..."
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09:53:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Malbranche]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50554&oldid=49699 * Malbranche * (+1)
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10:18:55 <Jafet> C++: the real brain fuck
10:32:06 <Jafet> apparently, something called std::rel_ops has been in the standard for two decades, but does not work properly because of how the language's scoping rules are defined
10:34:02 <Jafet> but, unlike template export, it hasn't been removed
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11:04:50 <b_jonas> what? std::rel_ops doesn't work?
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12:06:23 <b_jonas> https://underhanded.rs/blog/2016/12/15/underhanded-rust.en-US.html "
12:06:25 <b_jonas> The Rust Community Team is pleased to announce the first annual Underhanded Rust Contest, inspired by the Underhanded C and Underhanded Crypto contests. "
12:18:14 <Jafet> b_jonas: it doesn't work indirectly, for example std::greater won't look up rel_ops::operator>
12:19:55 <b_jonas> Jafet: I beleive the supposed way to use rel_ops is that you put a class into a separate namespace, define operator< and operator== for that class as nm functions in that namespace, and using the other operators from rel_ops into that namespace.
12:20:16 <b_jonas> Then when code tries to compare objects of that class, it will find it through ADL lookup.
12:20:32 <b_jonas> That applies even to greater, because greater will find the operators with ADL lookup too.
12:21:04 <b_jonas> But in practice the whole thing isn't too useful, because in most code you just call < and == operators anyway, the other operators aren't necessary.
12:29:04 <int-e> Your search - site:rust-lang.org ADL - did not match any documents.
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12:34:10 <Jafet> hmm, I can't even get g++ to look up rel_ops::operator> automatically
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12:36:32 <Jafet> wait, the contest is for a buggy payment processor? if this was a mainstream language, people would just submit their actual systems
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12:44:01 <Gregor> fizzie: It only took me months, but I did click two buttons ;)
12:44:09 <Gregor> Should have the changes merged in.
12:48:47 <int-e> there was something about reverse lookups too? hmm. something about emails from the wiki.
12:49:20 <int-e> of course right now that point seems rather moot: Host 242.166.248.162.in-addr.arpa not found: 2(SERVFAIL)
12:50:02 <int-e> HackEgo: node, seriously?
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13:00:49 <fizzie> Gregor: For the future, would you mind if I add my fork as another URL and pull the commits from there, or do you want them to go through your review?
13:01:56 <Gregor> fizzie: Do you have root access on that machine? Why not just use your own fork.
13:02:06 <Gregor> I guess that's what you just asked X-D
13:02:12 <Gregor> Don't trust me, I'm a lazy shit.
13:02:33 <int-e> just give fizzie the CaC credentials :P
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13:03:51 <int-e> (I don't even know whether that's possible on the level of a single VM, hmm)
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13:37:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50555&oldid=50553 * Enoua5 * (+1) Fixed broken tag
13:42:49 <lambdabot> Local time for Gregor is Wed Dec 21 08:42:49
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13:44:40 <Gregor> <int-e> (I don't even know whether that's possible on the level of a single VM, hmm)
13:44:54 <Gregor> Maybe through the API?
13:45:18 <Gregor> Naw, looks like it's all per-account.
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14:22:16 <int-e> Oh, I just used the wrong lanuage, ADL originates in C++.
14:23:16 <int-e> Perhaps ironically, "Koenig lookup" would have helped me more.
14:32:38 <b_jonas> "originates"? does any language other than C++ even has it?
14:33:30 <int-e> I don't know all programming languages. I'd imagine that D uses it as well.
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15:53:11 <HackEgo> wisdoom//Wisdoom is realizing just too late how you could have avoided your demise.
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16:37:58 <rdococ> fuzzy logic is more than having a percentage...
16:38:10 <rdococ> take x and y to be fuzzy logic values, both 50% each
16:38:26 <rdococ> now, x & !x = 0%, while x & y = 25%...
16:47:16 <boily> rdhellococ. fuzzy "x & y" is akin to min(x, y), so if "x = 0.5", then "x & !x = 0.5".
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17:08:57 <\oren\> I wonder if payment processing systems are still written in COBOL
17:11:32 <\oren\> there exists a gcc compiler of COBOL
17:12:32 <\oren\> but it's written in Lisp? ???
17:16:46 <newsham> are neural nets kind of like fuzzy logic with a non-linear thresholding func?
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17:18:24 <\oren\> newsham: each neuron, maybe, but the capabilities of a network depend highly on how they are trained and their topology
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17:20:15 <newsham> oh right, they're not programmed a priori (other than topology).. duh.. my bad
17:20:31 <newsham> so what if you had a statically programmed fuzzy logic system with a non-linear trigger func?
17:20:40 <newsham> would that be a lot diff than a standard fuzzy logic system?
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17:30:59 <boily> he\\oren\. COBOL in LISP???
17:32:10 <boily> newshellom. well, not much different. if you're chaining sigmoids (the canonical non-linear curve for perceptrons), you're approximating higher-degree polynomials.
17:32:52 <boily> instead of a single monotonic slope, you're freeing yourself to random curves.
17:35:10 <boily> fungot: are you linear?
17:35:10 <fungot> boily: it promotes a specific type of software engineering.... hold on, a bit
17:35:16 <boily> fungot: holding on...
17:35:17 <fungot> boily: ( or even " the current solution" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord? is especially ugly without infix". that phrase is
17:35:36 <boily> fungot: please balance your parentheses. )
17:35:37 <fungot> boily: now opening: fnord fnord. both are enormously fun. next time, or compile and install chicken eggs. even simple things like ' make i-know-what-i-am-doing' aren't supported yet.)
17:36:03 <boily> Fnord Fnord Fun for All!
17:36:58 <rdococ> I meant probability to be honest
17:37:01 <rdococ> not actual fuzzy logic
17:37:50 <rdococ> "x & !x = 0.5" makes sense, it's kinda like "is the glass less than half full AND less than half empty?"
17:38:08 <rdococ> as much as that makes sense...
17:38:39 <rdococ> I was talking about something more probabilistic - the chance of both x happening AND x not happening is 0%
17:39:59 <rdococ> this suggests to me that x is not equal to !x, even if both are 50% probable.
17:40:51 <rdococ> actually, you could have two variables who cannot both be true at once, so the result of their AND operation is 0%, but two other variables which are always true at once, and they have 50% together...
17:42:21 <rdococ> so probability value alone is not enough to determine the value of a probabilistic variable.
17:43:54 <rdococ> we could define them as expressions in terms of one or more pure probability variables
17:44:30 <rdococ> say a is a probabilistic number which could collapse into any real number between 0 and 1.
17:44:44 <rdococ> some variable x could be defined as the expression a < 0.5
17:45:01 <rdococ> then !x would mean a >= 0.5
17:45:36 <rdococ> !x is infinitesimally more probable than x, but x & !x is definitely impossible.
17:46:13 <rdococ> then an unrelated variable y might be equal to something like B < 0.5... and x&y is 25% probable.
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18:23:29 <zzo38> Maybe can be do like quantum states can be written as entangled too
18:26:15 <oerjan> `learn Testing is missing
18:26:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'testing': Testing is missing
18:27:05 <oerjan> oh that should also test the other
18:29:08 <HackEgo> cat: test: No such file or directory
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18:30:46 <boily> hezzo38, hellørjan, helloochaf.
18:30:54 <boily> Gregor is alive?!??!!?
18:31:20 <oerjan> well he was alive 4 hours ago. it may be months until next time.
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18:33:06 <boily> poochpoochpoochpooch ♪
18:33:30 <oerjan> . o O ( avoiding words starting with p may be a bit too awkward )
18:34:21 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64 \ node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
18:35:14 <oerjan> i think that was an attempt to install node that failed because node has files larger than HackEgo's limit
18:35:39 <oerjan> (and i think this has happened before)
18:35:51 <HackEgo> node-v7.2.1-linux-x64.tar.xz
18:36:20 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
18:36:42 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
18:37:08 <oerjan> oh right, the directory probably never got any files because of the unpacking failing
19:00:22 <Gregor> No, I'm not alive, stop imagining I'm alive.
19:02:04 <shachaf> Gregor: I was at a talk where someone mentioned a paper you were a coauthor of.
19:02:09 <shachaf> I guess that was a while ago by now.
19:03:37 <boily> `addquote <Gregor> No, I'm not alive, stop imagining I'm alive.
19:03:48 <HackEgo> 1302) <Gregor> No, I'm not alive, stop imagining I'm alive.
19:09:24 <Gregor> shachaf: Yes, there exist papers I write ;)
19:10:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50556 * GermanyBoy * (+3158) /* I'm worried about this, please stop */ new section
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19:26:48 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
19:32:17 <zgrep> So that's where my cakes went.
19:33:10 <boily> as long as he doesn't take all the fternooners, I'm fine with it.
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19:46:04 <\oren\> I wrote on paper once. I hated it, and switched back to writing on computers as soon as I could.
19:51:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50557&oldid=50556 * Keymaker * (+217)
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20:12:02 <shachaf> What about drawing diagrams?
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20:17:35 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: *cough*
20:18:06 <zzo38> I can wrote both on the paper and also on the computer
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21:06:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SumaMoito]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50558&oldid=43821 * Atrapado * (-312) remove broken link
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21:29:25 <FireFly> I learned the hard way that having a broken bouncing client is annoying to deal with..
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22:02:40 <Zarutian> a bit of a programming question for y'all: how do you do progress bars?
22:03:14 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:06:47 <zzo38> What is it the progress of?
22:07:49 <Zarutian> zzo38: lets say file download for simplicity
22:08:20 <Zarutian> zzo38: the file size is known at the start of the download.
22:09:17 <zzo38> You can multiply downloaded size by the size of the progress bar and divide by the total size of the file, and then you can fill that much of the bar. You can then add text for file size and estimated time.
22:09:53 <Jafet> fork the program into two processes and communicate through pv
22:11:26 <Zarutian> zzo38: now lets say it is for level loading in a game. The amount of stuff in the level is known at the begining. Same general method?
22:12:27 <zzo38> Zarutian: Yes, although there will be a few differences.
22:15:28 <zzo38> What game anyways?
22:19:25 <Zarutian> any game that has levels and loads each fully. (Too fast paced for continous loading)
22:20:51 <zzo38> Usually the similar thing will work
22:22:24 <FireFly> I guess for something like loading several files, you'll want to estimate how long it takes for one file (maybe using its size as proxy) and divide into chunks based on that
22:24:00 <Zarutian> FireFly: most level files use arrays of structures (with internal pointers, this is usually laid out or intrepreted) and you use the array sizes or such.
22:24:32 <FireFly> Well sure, most files in general use lots of arrays of structures :P
22:24:39 <FireFly> at least the ones I've looked at
22:24:50 <FireFly> Though I haven't looked at too many level file formats
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22:33:21 <zzo38> Depending on the game, it might or might not be that simple.
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22:34:51 <Zarutian> even a pessimistic estimate of total is good enough, no?
22:35:31 <zzo38> You can make a simple estimate if you have to; that will also work
22:39:47 <rdococ_> the file may be compressed (as was probably the case with some earlier games), and decompression time would also have to be taken into account
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22:46:52 <rdococ_> programming languages have conditionals like if, and loops like while
22:47:06 <rdococ_> when (something) { something else }
22:48:08 <FireFly> Pretty much all games compress data files
22:48:34 <FireFly> most develeopers seem to enjoy inventing their own compression and archive formats for reasons that I haven't understood
22:49:10 <rdococ_> I was thinking that myself tbh
22:49:15 <zzo38> There are many different kind of compression that may be used, although sometimes the compression isn't very good; the compression MegaZeux uses is not so good but I have made up a better compression for MegaZeux
22:51:07 <rdococ_> estimated time is definitely not very accurate by - we can't tell the future without something ridiculous or fictional.
22:51:19 <rdococ_> ridiculous being impossible.
22:51:30 <zzo38> A Famicom game I made up called "Attribute Zone" loads/saves uncompressed levels on tape, although ROM levels are compressed with Huffman and RLE.
22:53:23 <zzo38> But, RLE only applies to some kind of tiles and not to all kind of tiles. Also it uses a single Huffman tree for all levels, although it is recomputed and recompiled into 6502 code whenever levels are added or changed.
22:53:52 <zzo38> rdococ_: You can just avoid estimated time if you need to I suppose
22:54:55 <rdococ_> I've entertained the possibility of a world where games are "told" like stories over the telephone, then telephone operators would be the gamemaster for the player
22:55:39 <FireFly> so over-the-phone tabletop RPG+
22:55:45 <Zarutian> rdococ_: re "when" well Monte has when but it is more like .then() used in promises (though you can let it wait for many promises to resolve)
22:56:19 <rdococ_> I've also entertained the idea of a "else" function used on its own without the if preceding it, and what it would do
22:56:47 <Zarutian> rdococ_: then there is the when construct one can make easily in Tcl/Ttk. That just checks and rechecks every time the even loop is idle.
22:57:16 <rdococ_> nah, I imagined when (event) {} as a way to listen for events
22:57:20 <FireFly> youbetterdothis-orelse! { stuff }
22:58:13 <rdococ_> put it this way - each program is composed of some variable and event declarations, and then a bunch of [when] constructs. user interaction would involve executing an available subset of all the events.
22:58:22 <Zarutian> while (<condition>) { <loop body> } else { <body that is done if the condition was never true> }
22:59:33 <rdococ_> when (<event>) { <body to execute when the event is called> }
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23:00:00 <rdococ_> in fact I created a mock-up of how my when idea would work in notepad++
23:00:10 <Zarutian> rdococ_: sound like both like Jule and event loop based programming.
23:00:14 <rdococ_> with the user defined language feature
23:00:20 <rdococ_> there's no loop to it though
23:03:22 <Zarutian> well, usually there is only one event loop that is running constantly after program initialization, and it just gathers events and dispatches them to the whatever is waiting for them.
23:03:39 <rdococ_> a program in my language would be called a machine, and it would be composed of variable/event declarations - along with the "user" modifier for events that the user can activate - and then listeners for each event that are added to some sort of register and are executed when the event is fired. no need for loops.
23:04:45 <rdococ_> register being a real world metaphor for check-in and check-out registers that hotels and schools employ.
23:05:32 <Zarutian> the name event loop programming is just an artifact on how such event systems were first implemented.
23:05:40 <Zarutian> but you are basically describing such.
23:06:24 <Zarutian> but do go on because you might discover something overlooked by others that have done stuff in this part of the noosphere
23:09:33 <rdococ_> still, it's easier to use than an actual fsm.
23:09:33 <rdococ_> fsm being an abbreviation for finite state machine. and easier to use meaning more ease of programming.
23:09:33 <rdococ_> you could have a HP variable, then an enemy attack script check if your HP <= 0 directly.
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23:14:13 <rdococ_> however, during my toilet break I realized that my language isn't a finite state machine.
23:14:46 <rdococ_> you see, you can do math on the variables.
23:16:38 <rdococ_> when (leftBracket) { brackets += 1 }; when (rightBracket) { brackets -= 1; if (brackets < 0) { /* uh oh, right bracket where it shouldn't be */ } }
23:18:23 <rdococ_> hppavilion[1]: you're the second item of an array, how are you a language?
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23:18:42 <rdococ_> unless, where you live, languages are first class objects (which is well possible)
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23:24:05 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ_: (1) The arrays are indexed from 4 here (2) I was joking about the HP variable (3) WELL THEY ARE NOW
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00:09:28 <HackEgo> |a+b@| = { √(a²-b²) if a²-b² ≥ 0 ; i√(a²-b²) if a²-b² < 0 }
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00:27:38 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: You know how some sites add an obnoxious "Read more: <link>" at the end of a copy-paste
00:27:52 <hppavilion[1]> And it has a few newlines that make it REALLY shitty on IRC?
00:28:06 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Almost every site apparently uses the same script, and it's Tynt
00:28:45 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: Please get everyone you know to do so so we can kill this horrible, horrible cancer on the internet.
00:28:46 <Zarutian> have seen it used with (From <short url>) appened
00:30:37 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: How could it be "just √(a²-b²)" when it's i√(a²-b²) half the time?
00:31:08 <hppavilion[1]> Zarutian: That's nice. I could work with that that. If I could add an option to my right click menu that does that, I would. Maybe even make a variant of ^c that does it automagically
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00:31:51 <fizzie> (I don't know if it's intentionally like that, or if the other half was supposed to be i√(b²-a²), in which case it would be what you said. I wasn't reading when this whole @ thing was around.)
00:31:58 <Zarutian> think a site did it by basically doing whatever this horrible tynt.com script does
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00:33:18 <Zarutian> but it only went into effect if you copied something like a paragraph. (Seemed the guy intentionally thought of IRC message limits and kept it above that)
00:33:36 <hppavilion[1]> It literally contains «600,_idMacro:"aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" Read more: http://tcr.tynt.com/ti.js»
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00:40:53 <hppavilion[1]> I, hppavilion1, God of IRC formatting, do henceforth declare that what were hitherto known as Guillemets- the "« »" things that those fuckin' French use- shall henceforth be known as "code quotes" and be used to unambiguously quote code.
00:43:26 * boily Frenchly «thwacks» hppavilion[1] sur la tête. tsé.
00:43:53 * Zarutian just give hppavilion[1] a „look“
00:44:42 * hppavilion[1] . ø Ø ( ...are there French programming languages that actually use those? )
00:45:38 <boily> we do use the same guillemets here.
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00:47:48 <FireFly> actually, what does the word 'guillemet' translate as?
00:48:33 <hppavilion[1]> boily: ...your point? "Those fuckin' French" was about the fuckers FROM France. France the country.
00:51:26 <hppavilion[1]> moony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPFvQeIdu_E, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9wydLxKFQ
00:52:26 <Zarutian> FireFly: them goose feet ya mean
00:54:07 * moony the-whales has left the channel
00:56:47 <fizzie> Funciton uses «/» for push/pop on lists, but I don't think it's particularly French.
00:57:08 * boily thwack thwack thwack hppavilion[1]. fuckers are universal. there's a little fucker in all of us.
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00:58:55 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Guillemet is the diminutive of "Guillaume", which is a name akin to "William"
00:59:20 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: So it translates roughly to "Bill's Penis"
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01:19:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ehird * deleted "[[Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]]": No.
01:19:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck Derivative Ghetto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50559&oldid=50557 * Ehird * (+199) /* I'm worried about this, please stop */
01:21:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Morsefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50560&oldid=50552 * Ehird * (-105) rm harassment
01:22:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50561&oldid=50400 * Ferrosurgeon * (+209) Suggested Julia for implementing, added categories
01:22:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50562&oldid=50093 * Ehird * (-832) rm crusading
01:25:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50563&oldid=50561 * Ferrosurgeon * (-9) Turing-complete LUT note change
01:26:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Hppavilion1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50564&oldid=44776 * Ehird * (+393) /* Inappropriate edit */ new section
01:28:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Lutfig]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50565 * Ferrosurgeon * (+15) Created page with "Please comment."
01:32:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50566&oldid=50563 * Ferrosurgeon * (+9) m+n must be positive
01:32:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50567&oldid=50566 * Ferrosurgeon * (+0) WIP tag relocation
01:33:47 <boily> the thing in the box is in the mail.
01:34:11 <boily> on top of Gregor being alive (but actively denying it), elliott's alive too???
01:34:42 * boily stops thwacking hppavilion[1] momentarily...
01:35:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50568&oldid=50567 * Ferrosurgeon * (-20) Probability distributions are only for LUTs
01:37:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Hppavilion1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50569&oldid=50564 * Ehird * (-36) /* Inappropriate edit */ fix link, oops
01:38:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50570&oldid=50568 * Ferrosurgeon * (+8) Again
01:44:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50571&oldid=50570 * Ferrosurgeon * (+234) Rewrote Turing-probabilistic relationship
01:45:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50572&oldid=50571 * Ferrosurgeon * (+26) Bookkeeping now own bullet
02:04:01 <boily> everything is distinct from everything else. if you go through an automorphism, is it the same object you're at?
02:13:12 <quintopia> well...im in budapest. hope my dad does not drink it before i return
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02:27:03 <zzo38> How can you generate a suitable palette for use with HAM or EHB modes? There are many different algorithm to make the optimal palette for a picture, but nothing for HAM or EHB modes or for when part of the palette is fixed (or for when both of these are true).
02:28:06 <hppavilion[1]> boily: (b) Spanish is more distinctive from most because you can identify with relative certainty that what you're looking at is, in fact, Spanish given a single character
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02:35:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fuckyou: not found
02:35:19 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fuckoff: not found
02:35:27 <hppavilion[1]> Ham, I seem to remember there being a `thanks variant
02:35:39 <HackEgo> Thanks, hppavilion[1]. Thavilion[1].
02:36:11 <HackEgo> Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo.
02:36:19 <HackEgo> Thanks, thanking. Thanking.
02:38:42 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -CSDA \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_.";
02:39:04 * boily resumes the hppavilionthwacking.
02:39:19 <HackEgo> Thanks, thwacker. Thacker.
02:39:29 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thwanks: not found
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04:05:21 <izabera> Genie: Whats your first wish?
04:05:25 <izabera> Genie: Granted, what's your second wish?
04:05:27 <izabera> Rich: I want lots of money.
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04:43:15 <Jafet> thus began the story of the profligate formerly known as rich
04:59:11 <rdococ> can someone please talk?
04:59:39 <rdococ> is almost an anagram of happy
05:03:34 <rdococ> oh my god someone is talking to me
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06:05:45 <\oren\> I have had two fancy beers and several glasses of some sort of wine thing
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06:14:55 <zzo38> Next time you have to be more careful and don't get too much drunk.
06:19:42 <\oren\> I don't knwo creemore thingy
06:22:45 <zzo38> That is the advice.
06:47:57 <zzo38> To make the palette optimizer to be able to use some fixed colours, my idea was to make the algorithm that adds exactly one colour to an existing (possibly empty) palette, according to the picture, and then to repeat the algorithm until the palette is full. How well is expect such thing to be working?
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07:19:00 <zzo38> Why does turning on the printer cause a kernel panic?
07:20:06 <zzo38> I did not used to have that problem, and have been able to use it successfully, but recently it just always causes a kernel panic whenever the printer is turned on.
07:20:34 <shachaf> Maybe the kernel is buggy.
07:21:50 <zzo38> I would think so. But, what is the bug hopefully it can be corrected.
07:21:59 <zzo38> (I don't know enough about it to fix it myself)
07:24:11 <shachaf> Maybe you can apply the scientific method to find out.
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07:56:55 <zzo38> The AI in Pokemon Card GB2 will use cards such as Professor Oak and Bill a lot, and nearly always use attacks and other stuff to just draw more cards. And then run out of cards and they complain of losing...
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08:11:29 <hppavilion[1]> Do you ever wonder what some of the people on this channel are like in the fabled "Real World"?
08:13:10 <zzo38> I do not to generally think of such thing because I have other stuff to do
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08:18:49 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: ...yeah, you're the one I was wondering about the most, actually.
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09:46:02 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://zzo38computer.org/img_13/screen1.png
09:53:12 <shachaf> Is it Potion of Confusing?
09:53:14 <zzo38> The question marks are breakable walls with seekers underneath (in the under layer)
09:53:21 <zzo38> No, it is Super ASCII MZX Town
09:57:34 <b_jonas> making feature-rich irc clients would be SO MUCH EASIER if there weren't two different casemappings used by different networks. freenode has switched over to the iso646 style casemapping when they replaced the server software, but at least two networks (ircnet and foonetic) still use ascii casemapping.
10:01:08 <zzo38> The alpha signs mean fish. The exclamation marks below "Choose Wisely" are various potions, such as: healing, poison, kill enemies, summon enemies, fire walking, etc. Due to the objects surrounding in that place, it is only possible to pick up one potion.
10:01:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: how is the printer connected to the machine that gets kernel panic?
10:01:56 <zzo38> b_jonas: By USB. This printer support only USB and Wi-Fi, and I could not get the Wi-Fi to work either.
10:02:14 <b_jonas> try a different motherboard maybe
10:04:48 <zzo38> Maybe I had it connected to a different USB port before and maybe that is why it worked before? I don't know. I will not look right now though
10:07:22 <fizzie> b_jonas: IRCnet uses ascii? I was so sure it was rfc1459 still.
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10:07:38 <b_jonas> fizzie: dunno, double-check it, I might have made a mistake
10:07:51 <fizzie> No, you're right, it does say "CASEMAPPING=ascii".
10:08:57 <fizzie> But that must be a relatively new thing, maybe around ircd 2.10/2.11 time. http://www.irc.org/tech_docs/005.html says "CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 (ircu, Hybrid, IRCNet)", "CASEMAPPING=ascii (Bahamut)".
10:10:20 <b_jonas> I still wonder what freenode did with conflicting nickserv or chanserv registrations when they switched over to ascii.
10:16:30 <Vorpal> "<lambdabot> ais523 said 20d 12h 16m 20s ago: found while trying to find cfunge's website: https://www.usna.edu/Users/cs/roche/courses/f12si413/project/befunge.php.html (apparently cfunge is genuinely being used in academia as a teaching aid, and the resulting website outranks the cfunge repo in the search I did; I didn't even realise cfunge did Befunge-93, maybe it doesn't)"
10:17:34 <Vorpal> @tell ais523 cfunge kind of does Befunge-93. It won't be 100% compliant (it allows more stuff than it should iirc, though I kind of forgot exactly what)
10:18:11 <Vorpal> I should do something with cfunge again at some point
10:18:29 <Vorpal> fizzie, how goes things? Jitfunge and otherwise
10:21:02 <Vorpal> shachaf, long time no see
10:21:22 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Thu Dec 22 02:21:19 2016
10:26:15 <b_jonas> zzo38: what is "HAM or EHB modes"?
10:32:45 <zzo38> b_jonas: HAM modes is that each pixel can either be one of the colours from the palette, or it can be the same as the pixel to the left except that one of the RGB channels is changed to a new value (which does not necessarily have to come from the palette). EHB mode is like a normal palette, but the palette is doubled, and the duplicates are only half as bright instead of exact duplicates.
10:42:42 <zzo38> Hopefully this explanation is good enough?
10:43:17 <b_jonas> I haven't heard of those modes
10:44:26 <b_jonas> ah, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_16-bit_computer_hardware_palettes even mentions HAM mode and EHB mode. I didn't remember that
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12:37:21 <izabera> is this spam? http://i.imgur.com/axcIoAM.png
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12:50:31 <izabera> first time i see someone mentioning github in spam
12:53:11 <b_jonas> so? it's a popular website with lots of people having accounts there. easy to mention in spam.
12:53:35 <b_jonas> also, https://www.xkcd.com/624/
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13:52:47 <fizzie> TIL: When you use a drone to take a picture of yourself, that's called a "dronie".
13:54:04 <fizzie> (Apparently a word from 2014.)
14:12:24 <HackEgo> _46bit//_46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
14:12:33 <int-e> TIL that the Nexus series of androids has a lifetime of 4 years.
14:13:18 <int-e> I wonder whether that factored into Google's decision when they appropriated the name for their mobile devices.
14:17:33 <fizzie> Sounds a little optimistic lifetime for consumer electronics these days.
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14:51:55 <HackEgo> oregano//Oregano is the main spice in oreganic cuisine.
15:08:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BeHuman * New user account
15:08:45 <HackEgo> 506) <fizzie> Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though?
15:09:09 <int-e> ... that was a bad idea
15:09:16 <HackEgo> 1080) <boily> it's not weird, it's even in alphabetical order and nicely formatted!
15:09:23 <HackEgo> 184) <fizzie> And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?)
15:10:07 <HackEgo> 826) <Jafet> The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt
15:10:21 <int-e> fizzie: but FWIW, I believe the stripping is entirely optional
15:10:49 <int-e> yes, almost makes me think of fizzie as a human again
15:11:01 <boily> fizzie isn't human?
15:11:12 <int-e> well, that strip nomic one...
15:12:00 <HackEgo> 506) <fizzie> Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though?
15:12:24 <HackEgo> 8) <Madelon> Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 889) <shachaf> FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE
15:13:30 <HackEgo> 305) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 306) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django
15:13:50 <boily> the Everlasting Django Giraffe Quote Chain.
15:18:27 <HackEgo> 307) <Sgeo> I was more of a pervert in Metaplace than Utherverse <Sgeo> I invented Metaplace sex >.> \ 357) <oerjan> i never meta turing. he died before i was born. \ 358) <elliott> oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page <elliott> thanks <oerjan> elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJAN PAGINAS DELET \ 509) <ais523> o
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15:46:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50573&oldid=50547 * BeHuman * (+100) /* Introductions */
15:46:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50574&oldid=50537 * BeHuman * (+15) /* Non-alphabetic */
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16:09:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50575 * BeHuman * (+2088) Created page with "CodeFuck is a variant of BrainFuck.<br /> It avoids repetitions and adds new operators<br /> <br /> == Hello World == === CodeFuck === <pre>+10[>+7>+10>+3>+<4-]>+2.>+.+7.2+3.>..."
16:11:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50576&oldid=50575 * BeHuman * (+75) /* Conditions */
16:15:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50577&oldid=50576 * BeHuman * (+226)
16:20:19 <int-e> it's not brainfuck if there are builtin conditionals...
16:20:42 <int-e> (and negated ones too...)
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16:23:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50578&oldid=50574 * BeHuman * (+15) /* C */
16:26:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50579&oldid=50577 * BeHuman * (+36)
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16:45:19 <moonheart08> Unhandled exception at 0x668AC3A2 (ucrtbase.dll) in hexchat.exe: An invalid parameter was passed to a function that considers invalid parameters fatal.
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19:11:01 <oerjan> . o O ( CERN's favicon makes it look like the tab is permanently frozen reloading )
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19:32:21 <zzo38> You may disable favicon maybe (I have all favicons disabled on my browser). Is it possible also to disable only for some sites?
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19:39:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Betaload]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50580 * Challenger5 * (+4483) Created page with "Betaload is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[user:Challenger5]]. It is a derivative of [[Underload]]. Betaload adds the concept of '''environments''': An env..."
19:41:06 <oerjan> zzo38: it's not an actual problem, it just looks weird.
19:42:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Betaload]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50581&oldid=50580 * Challenger5 * (+200)
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20:19:47 <oerjan> CERN has a decelerator. fittingly, it uses antiprotons.
20:20:02 <APic> What about the TGV then?
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20:20:26 <oerjan> i don't think that uses antiprotons.
20:22:31 <APic> oerjan: Why not?
20:22:41 <APic> Maybe an Anti-TGV does instead
20:23:15 <HackEgo> A thausible action is one committed toward a thausiblee.
20:23:15 <HackEgo> Thanks, antimatter. Thantimatter.
20:23:44 <shachaf> Have you ever noticed that "cwlprits" is an awfully long string?
20:23:57 <HackEgo> 8657:2016-06-29 <oerjän> learn A thausible action is one committed toward a thausiblee. \ 8656:2016-06-29 <oerjän> learn A thausible action is one commited toward a thausiblee.
20:23:58 <shachaf> "cwl" is so much clearer and less verbose, don't you think?
20:24:19 <oerjan> i refuse to believe i thought of that wisdom.
20:24:28 <oerjan> probably stole it from boily or something.
20:24:41 <shachaf> Hmm, we should've gotten Gregor to fix glogbot while he was alive.
20:25:24 <HackEgo> 4399:2014-02-06 <boil̈y> echo \'A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.\' >wisdom/thausiblee
20:26:12 <oerjan> 2 years, 4 months and 23 days.
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20:30:54 <izabera> the latest version of gnu parallel is called castro
20:31:51 <izabera> because the world needs some more politics
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20:37:34 <Lemon> Anyone online now?
20:39:01 <Lemon> Isn't coffee the greatest addiction ever?
20:41:31 <shachaf> I would prefer for this bot to just go away.
20:48:31 <Lemon> I used to make esolangs but then I took an arrow to the knee
20:50:58 <rdococ> while (!knee.Contains(arrow)) { make.Esolang() }
20:52:43 <oerjan> @tell boily please see logs for thwacking requirements
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21:06:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50582&oldid=50579 * BeHuman * (+732) /* Example Math.cf */
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21:06:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50583&oldid=50582 * BeHuman * (+24) /* Advanced Example */
21:08:17 <wob_jonas> http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-room => so https://www.xkcd.com/356/ wasn't humane enough?
21:09:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50584&oldid=50583 * BeHuman * (+5) /* Code */
21:09:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50585&oldid=50584 * BeHuman * (+4) /* Output */
21:09:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50586&oldid=50585 * BeHuman * (-2) /* Advanced Example */
21:09:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50587&oldid=50586 * BeHuman * (+2) /* Output */
21:10:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50588&oldid=50587 * BeHuman * (-1) /* CodeFuck */
21:10:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50589&oldid=50588 * BeHuman * (+2) /* Output */
21:10:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50590&oldid=50589 * BeHuman * (-2) /* CodeFuck */
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21:22:06 <zzo38> An old computer game involving racing cars gives you four choices for your car and six choices for opponent's car; one of the choices for opponent's car is the "Physics Supercharged Lightbeam Special" which can go at the speed of light and probably is impossible to win
21:25:42 <zzo38> (The computer player also uses different rules; they can drive at a constant speed without damaging their car, while your own car must accelerate and decelerate and may crash at high speeds.)
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21:31:58 <Taneb> Completely irrelevant to everything fact: when I was little, I thought doctors were immortal
21:36:16 <Taneb> Because when you get sick, you might die, right? So you go to the doctor so you don't die
21:36:36 <Taneb> But doctors are ALWAYS with a doctor, namely themself, so hence never die from being sick
21:38:00 <Taneb> That's a good question
21:38:08 <Taneb> I'm not sure I was aware of car crashes back then
21:39:22 <wob_jonas> (re designing M:tG cards per LKoen's question) "<int-e> I might actually piece the elements together with a library like cairo then (which can generate bitmaps, SVG and also PDF)." => that wouldn't be ideal, because cairo only handles RGB or RGBA whereas M:tG card fronts are CYMK (or possible even more layers, I'm not sure)
21:41:26 <zzo38> What I thought is to make the program you can have as many layers (bitmaps and greymaps) as you want. This way you can easily do CMYK and so on
21:41:32 <wob_jonas> Taneb: sure, but (1) they could die in illnesses that restrict or remove their ability to practice as a doctor, (2) they can die to old age, which can't be cures even with the highest level of clerical spells, and (3) they can be turned to undead, and an undead can't resurrect itself even if it can cast a resurrection spell.
21:42:02 <Taneb> wob_jonas, when I was 6 I did not realise this
21:42:55 <wob_jonas> zzo38: a program where you can have different colorspaces, including CYMK? such as ImageMagick 7 (there are other such programs too)?
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21:44:32 <wob_jonas> Taneb: yeah, it's not so obvious. as a child, you see how hairdressers work and can imagine why they can't cut their own hair, but you don't see how doctors do difficult operations with anesthesia, so it's not clear why they can't do some of those on themselves, nor do you see people with certain illnesses that make it impossible for them to work.
21:46:16 <wob_jonas> zzo38: really, ImageMagick 7 is well done (despite that bug about rendering caps on lines I mentioned a few days ago), you should use it.
21:46:49 <wob_jonas> it has a nice command-line, a low-level API, and a high-level API
21:48:33 <zzo38> Yes, ImageMagick support many different kind of colorspaces, so the layers could be composed with it is one way
21:49:34 <wob_jonas> ImageMagick 7 does. ImageMagick 6 is more limited.
21:49:45 <zzo38> What is the bug about rendering caps on lines though?
21:49:55 <wob_jonas> but you can use ImageMagick to do the composition itself
21:50:04 <zzo38> Yes ImageMagick 6 is more limited, but still has CMYK
21:52:17 <wob_jonas> zzo38: hmm, maybe I didn't mention it on #esoteric, sorry
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21:53:19 <wob_jonas> the bug is that when I tried to use -draw "linewidth ... stroke-linecap round line ..." to draw a line, with a transparent stroke color, then a half-circle part that is the intersection of the line cap and the line body was double exposed
21:53:32 <wob_jonas> partly transparent stroke color that is
21:56:43 <wob_jonas> and even before this, I used ImageMagick a lot, and it usually worked quite well
21:57:02 <wob_jonas> mostly I used it through the command line, but I used the high level C++ api a little as well
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21:57:19 <zzo38> Yes, I am sure it does as I have used it too
21:58:19 <zzo38> You can also use ff-composite to compose pictures together although it does not support more than three normal channels (there is also the alpha channel; different composite modes use this channel in different ways, and in some cases it is treated as a normal channel), but it is possible to just use multiple pictures in parallel if you need a huge number of channels (although this is possible with ImageMagick too)
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22:03:04 <zzo38> One of the modes I put in is the mode where the pixel used is either the source or destination pixel whichever one the alpha channel has a larger value. This can implement something like Z-buffering.
22:04:24 <wob_jonas> zzo38: as for compositing, what I'd like from a compositing program is where you don't give just one compositing mode, but a struct of two of them: the first is usually a duff-porter operator, which tells how to handle transparency, Over by default, the second is a mathematical compositing mode, which tells how to mix the color values for opaque pi
22:05:34 <wob_jonas> so eg you could choose any of (Over, Multiply), (Over, Screen), (In, Multiply), (In, Screen)
22:08:14 <zzo38> Actually I did something like that; I don't know if it is exactly what you mean or not though; bit7-bit9 of the composite mode number sets the values called X Y Z in this document http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-SVGCompositing-20090430/
22:08:40 <wob_jonas> I don't know what I mean exactly either, because I didn't tell the exact semantics
22:08:48 <zzo38> Is that similar to what you intended?
22:09:15 <moonmas> i forgot about my rainbow autoreplace
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22:11:45 <zzo38> This only applies to composite mode numbers 64 and higher; lower numbered modes treat the alpha channel differently.
22:13:48 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, that description of how the composition formulas are built from (X,Y,Z,f) is what I mean, though svg doesn't actually seem to provide the combination modes.
22:14:22 <zzo38> SVG doesn't provide, but my own program does.
22:16:02 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I'm looking at the source code of http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/artifact/17f30248cb205ac5 now (there's no docs, right?)
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22:16:51 <zzo38> That is correct there are currently no documentation.
22:17:12 <zzo38> (If you want, you can contribute some, whether examples, wiki documentation, man pages, etc)
22:18:16 <zzo38> Look at the "default" case; that is the case that does these things I described. The other cases don't do that since they do something other than using transparency normally
22:19:32 <zzo38> The lack of documentation is one of the disadvantages of these programs, although in time hopefully that and other things can be improved and fixed.
22:20:27 <wob_jonas> Do you have a mode that copies the luminosity value of Dst to the alpha channel of the Src, but keeps the color value of Src? That would be useful sometimes, because in most compositions and other transformations, the color of the input can't affect the alpha of the output.
22:21:12 <wob_jonas> I think there's some not too complicated way to do that with ImageMagick though
22:21:24 <zzo38> I don't think so, but I hope I can add that!
22:21:57 <wob_jonas> Or perhaps another method that multiplies the alpha of Src with the luminosity of Dst to get the alpha of the result
22:22:57 <zzo38> Yes, probably it does.
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00:29:20 <zzo38> How is luminosity value working in way you expect it?
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01:35:05 <zzo38> Cumulative upkeep--remove a time counter from a permanent or suspended card
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01:46:17 <tswett_> Onslaught Fetch Land. Abstract land. (T), Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Onslaught Fetch Land: Search your library for a (basic land type 1) or (basic land type 2) card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
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01:46:40 <tswett_> Flooded Strand. Land - Onslaught Fetch Land. Basic land type 1 is Plains. Basic land type 2 is Island.
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01:56:49 <pikhq_> Cumulative upkeep -- Target permanent that has not been targetted this turn.
01:57:45 <zzo38> I think "target" does not quite work that way?
01:58:32 <pikhq_> Fine, fine. "Do nothing to target permanent that [..]"
01:58:45 <zzo38> No, that is not what I meant
01:59:13 <pikhq_> I suppose it would have to be "that has not been the target of a spell or ability this turn."
02:00:14 <tswett_> Is there anything that can't be a cost?
02:00:23 <zzo38> shachaf: Nothing currently does that, although I do not see why not (although sometimes strange things can happen).
02:00:46 <pikhq_> Do nothing to target spell: add one colorless mana to your mana pool.
02:01:08 <tswett_> Phrasing that as "Choose target spell" would work, wouldn't it?
02:01:22 <tswett_> My favorite fantasy card is, of course...
02:01:29 <zzo38> It isn't a mana ability because it has a target, but simply to pay the cost, there needs to be a spell on the stack, but otherwise need nothing
02:01:42 <tswett_> Anticlimax. 15WUB. Instant. As an additional cost to cast Anticlimax, you win the game.
02:01:59 <pikhq_> tswett_: That... is actually quite amusing.
02:02:03 <shachaf> A spell that has targets fizzles if all of its targets are gone at the time of resolution, right?
02:02:08 <shachaf> Can that happen if target is a cost?
02:02:18 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes. And yes I would think so! I have thought of that even!
02:02:38 <pikhq_> Probably the best part of "Anticlimax" is, it doesn't work with most ways of cheating it in.
02:04:09 <zzo38> For example, if a card has an activated ability like: Sacrifice target creature: You gain 3 life. It will most likely fizzle, unless you can somehow change the target (it won't affect the new target, but changing the target will enable you to gain 3 life)
02:04:32 <shachaf> It's scow that a spell can say "any number of targets", but if you choose one target and that target disappears by the time it resolves, it still fizzles.
02:05:10 <shachaf> zzo38: But if you change the target, you still already sacrificed the original creature, right?
02:05:29 <zzo38> And the new target is not sacrificed.
02:06:07 <shachaf> Of course, the cost is paid by then.
02:06:16 <shachaf> But I don't like how that works.
02:06:22 <hppavilion[1]> Is O(n log n) THE lower bound on worst-case time complexity for a sorting algorithm?
02:06:24 <zzo38> But that kind of cumulative upkeep, I might want to write: Activate "{0}: Target permanent that has not been targeted this turn before this activation." My intention is to get rid of the timing errors and stuff like that with pikhq_'s version
02:06:47 <shachaf> pikhq_: Are you frizzling tomorrow?
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02:06:58 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia mentions UnShuffle sort with kn complexity where k is proportional to input entropy...
02:08:17 <pikhq_> shachaf: Frizzling tte?
02:09:40 <pikhq_> "tte" is a Japanese sentence suffix. I'm kinda going "Frizzling, WTF is that?". ... ppoi.
02:12:41 <pikhq_> ... Now I'm just adding Japanese sentence suffixes for no good reason, na no ne.
02:13:44 <pikhq_> So now I'm just being irritating da zo'.
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02:22:11 <zzo38> For example one way to be able to gain life from "Sacrifice target creature: You gain 3 life" is to use Grip of Chaos.
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02:50:20 <izabera> take an array like [5, 2, 7, 6, 4, 1, 3]
02:50:45 <izabera> split it into non ascending subarrays like [5, 2] [7, 6, 4, 1] [3]
02:50:56 <izabera> now reverse them [2, 5] [1, 4, 6, 7] [3]
02:51:12 <izabera> concatenate it in a single array again [2, 5, 1, 4, 6, 7, 3]
02:51:26 <izabera> what's the complexity of this algorithm?
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03:04:05 <shachaf> Approximately n^2 comparisons in the worst case?
03:04:21 <izabera> what does the worst case look like?
03:05:33 <shachaf> The worst case for an n-element array will require n-1 iterations.
03:06:00 <shachaf> I'm basing all this on running it on small inputs, no proofs or anything.
03:07:03 <shachaf> One worst case will be [2..n,1]
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03:18:46 <Jafet> the hanoi pancake sorting problem?
03:19:27 <izabera> i didn't know it had a name
03:20:50 <shachaf> Seems like a generalized bubble sort.
03:21:10 <shachaf> In bubble sort you look for unsorted sequences of length 2 and reverse them.
03:21:34 <shachaf> Of course, there are lots of things that can be called generalized bubble sort.
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04:06:43 <zzo38> I cannot find anything nor think of anything about how to do make reduced palette with any algorithm when some palette entries are fixed.
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04:20:54 <zzo38> If you want to multiply alpha channel by the luminosity of another picture, what you can do is to use ff-matrix with the picture that you want the luminosity of to move it to the alpha channel (and change the other channels to maximum) and then use ff-composite with mode 7 selected.
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07:39:52 <\oren\> Ha, I can go annex all this land, and they let me get waya with it
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09:23:25 <b_jonas> zzo38: re luminosity, I'm not sure. I'd mostly use this for grayscale Dst. Feel free to use whatever linear operator on the color value that takes white to 1, eg. the classical one close to (0.2*r + 0.7*g + 0.1*b), or some easier to compute value like (0.5*r+0.r*g) or just g.
09:25:21 <b_jonas> "<tswett_> Anticlimax. 15WUB. Instant. As an additional cost to cast Anticlimax, you win the game." => that is HORRIBLY broken. you can start to cast it even without having enough mana, start paying the costs in whatever order you want, win the game, then the spell should be rolled back because you can't pay the costs, but it's too late by then.
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10:36:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50591&oldid=50590 * BeHuman * (+28) /* Operators */
10:36:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50592&oldid=50591 * BeHuman * (+3) /* Operators */
10:37:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50593&oldid=50592 * BeHuman * (+33) /* Code */
10:38:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50594&oldid=50593 * BeHuman * (+179) /* Code */
10:39:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50595&oldid=50594 * BeHuman * (+9872) /* Advanced Example */
10:42:34 <izabera> shachaf: after the first step you can only swap adjacent pairs
10:46:04 <shachaf> I don't follow, but I should be asleep anyway.
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11:24:28 <\oren\> also. TIL that the boundary dispute between quebec and newfoundland is still not resolved
11:43:25 <\oren\> I missed a /gɪf/ vs. /ʤɪf/ war in another channel
11:47:26 <\oren\> argh I always forget to use ɡ and not g
12:06:25 <b_jonas> hehe, look, two different mutant reindeers today: http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/12/second-most-famous.html vs https://www.xkcd.com/1776/
12:29:30 <int-e> (Rudolf is a mutant too, in my eyes)
12:42:47 <int-e> fungot: do you know Rudolf?
12:42:47 <fungot> int-e: i am trying to remember, matrix was like a crash course. i'll use that
12:43:09 <int-e> actually that's an excellent answer...
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15:42:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 18h 49m 57s ago: please see logs for thwacking requirements
15:42:43 <HackEgo> boily//"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
15:43:47 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. warming up the mapole and perusing logs for optimal calibration... please wait... ♪
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15:53:28 <boily> @tell oerjan. I'll thwack you in two years. “Mapole Inc. For all your Thwacking Needs™. It was a pleasure making business with you. Mapole Inc. ♪”
15:56:08 <int-e> boily: are you hoping that the suspense will kill oerjan...
15:56:26 <int-e> ...if so, that seems rather cruel.
15:59:08 <boily> int-ello. not cruel, just mappaling :D
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16:02:29 <HackEgo> 4chan//4chan is twice as loud as stereo.
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16:07:33 -!- int-e has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | time traveling mapoles and other cruel and unusual punishments | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah.
16:16:36 <int-e> Freefall is excellent once again.
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16:48:54 <int-e> hmm, moon heart. cheese?
16:50:20 <boily> moonheart08: can I carve you? for science obviously.
16:52:10 <int-e> yummy science, hmmmmm
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17:10:12 <zzo38> b_jonas: I think you can use ff-matrix though, so a new composite mode is not needed
17:12:30 <b_jonas> zzo38: let me look at ff-matrix
17:15:16 <zzo38> You use that to multiply each pixel (considered as a vector of four components) by a matrix, so you can use that to calculate luminosity and to store the result in the alpha channel. And then if all other channels are white, then you can use mode 7 of ff-composite to do what you wanted. You can remember about use of <() shell operator if you need it.
18:05:04 <int-e> wtf is "natural computation"
18:09:16 <int-e> there's a wikipedia page for it
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19:06:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * IQBigBang * New user account
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19:52:30 <lambdabot> boily said 4h 8m 43s ago: hellørjan. warming up the mapole and perusing logs for optimal calibration... please wait... ♪
19:53:47 <oerjan> @tell boily @tell doesn't support arbitrary punctuation after the nick so i have no idea what you said in the second message hth also i was not requesting on my own behalf, clearly you missed something.
19:54:49 <HackEgo> The password of the month is lutefisk
19:55:04 <HackEgo> 9816:2016-12-02 <shachäf> revert \ 9815:2016-12-02 <shachäf> undo -2 \ 9813:2016-12-02 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is lutefisk \ 9627:2016-11-05 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is \xe2\x9b\x84 \ 9130:2016-10-01 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is Bierstub\xc3\xab. \ 9030:2016-09-12 <oerjän> learn The passwo
19:55:09 <oerjan> that looks seasonal. i was wondering if i had forgotten this month.
19:55:45 <shachaf> The entry text should mention the month.
19:56:01 <oerjan> that would be untraditional.
19:56:37 <oerjan> besides, most people don't eat lutefisk other months hth
19:56:55 * oerjan doesn't seem to be eating any this month either
19:58:13 <int-e> . o O ( The password of the month is октобар )
19:58:45 <shachaf> most people don't eat lutefisk any month hth
19:59:06 <int-e> (it's a revolutionary password)
19:59:14 * oerjan takes a freshly caught shachaf off the hook
19:59:16 <int-e> yes, I looked it up
19:59:38 <shachaf> oerjan: you catch birds with hooks?
20:00:02 <int-e> it's called fly fishing
20:00:15 <oerjan> when they bite voluntarily, at least
20:00:56 * oerjan considers swatting int-e but doesn't quite get it.
20:01:50 <shachaf> oerjan: fly fishing is fishing with flies
20:02:19 <shachaf> but that may not have been int-e's pun
20:02:50 <oerjan> int-e: in that case, shouldn't it be октобар twh
20:03:46 <oerjan> shachaf: as i said, i didn't quite get it.
20:03:54 <int-e> oerjan: please explain the difference, twh
20:04:30 <oerjan> int-e: are you one of those color-censoring philistines tdnh
20:04:31 <int-e> shachaf: I hesitated briefly before using "duck" as a verb there.
20:04:31 <shachaf> int-e: one is irc-colored red hth
20:04:55 <int-e> shachaf: there is no such thing (according to my client's configuration)
20:06:48 <int-e> says the blue shachaf. (that's my nick hilight)
20:06:54 <oerjan> . o O ( really, ^O should be two codes, one to push the current colors and one to pop them )
20:07:37 <int-e> I guess that was some sort of rainbow.
20:07:43 <shachaf> it would be great if int-e was the only op in a channel
20:07:56 <shachaf> blind to certain forms of abuse
20:08:53 <int-e> so be careful what you wish for
20:09:51 <shachaf> /mode #esoteric +scow int-e
20:10:23 <int-e> but the rest will work
20:11:59 <int-e> oh when did we get +C
20:15:28 <int-e> huh, #haskell has +L set, wth is +L.
20:15:45 <int-e> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/channelmodes fails to enlighten me
20:15:57 <zzo38> All of the mode are explain by "HELP cmode"
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20:16:27 <zzo38> +L mean large ban list (only settable by opers)
20:16:44 <shachaf> Is #haskell scow nowadays?
20:17:04 <shachaf> Even without +L you can have a large ban list if you want.
20:17:37 <shachaf> The trick is to make secondary channels and then use +b $j:
20:17:45 <shachaf> At least I think that would work. I've never tried it.
20:18:29 <int-e> shachaf: I've seen that actually being used somewhere, forgot where. ##programming maybe, or some specific programming language?
20:18:55 <shachaf> $j or specifically $j as a workaround to the ban list limit?
20:19:10 <shachaf> We use $j in Haskell-related channels like #-blah and #-lens
20:19:16 <int-e> ##programming: ban $j:##bans ##programming: ban $j:##programming-bans2
20:19:42 <shachaf> The trouble with $j is that it doesn't respect $j bans in the other channel.
20:19:45 <shachaf> So you only get one level.
20:19:49 <int-e> I meant as a workaround for small ban lists
20:19:55 <shachaf> But it's quite a high branching factor so it's not so bad.
20:20:39 <int-e> and actually there's ##programming: ban $j:##programming-bans too.
20:23:42 <shachaf> Maybe ##bans is a general-purpose bans channel meant to be shared among communities.
20:24:13 <shachaf> So that e.g. spammers only need to be banned once across a bunch of channels.
20:24:16 <shachaf> I would join such an effort.
20:24:21 <shachaf> Cannot join to channel ##bans (You must be invited)
20:25:07 <shachaf> We could call it "bans with other channels"
20:25:29 <int-e> its ban list appears to be empty
20:26:40 <shachaf> Oh, you can do that even without being in the channel.
20:26:52 <int-e> it worked for ##programming.
20:27:12 <shachaf> Maybe it only gives accurate results for a channel that you can join.
20:27:28 <int-e> but I'm not 100% certain, hence I wrote "appears to be" rather than "is".
20:27:29 <shachaf> Sorry, I meant #haskell-offtopic.
20:30:47 <zzo38> You can do various thing with the extban I think. I have read somewhere to use that to make something like +n that some clients can be exempt from.
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20:47:51 <fizzie> shachaf: I just falsified your hypothesis by doing "MODE ##c++ b" with a nick that started with _.
20:48:00 <fizzie> (It did return the full ban list, even though those nicks are banned.)
20:48:25 <fizzie> (##c++ bans [*!*@* and _*!*@*.)
20:49:07 <oerjan> @tell izabera <izabera> shachaf: after the first step you can only swap adjacent pairs <-- pretty sure you can get triples hth
20:49:39 <shachaf> fizzie: Well, ##bans is a "you must be invited" channe.
20:49:47 <shachaf> That might be different from a mere ban.
20:58:05 <oerjan> int-e: <int-e> (Rudolf is a mutant too, in my eyes) <-- actually he just has a severe fungal infection hth
21:08:34 <int-e> fungi that glow in the dark? hmm
21:09:58 <HackEgo> necessity//If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it.
21:12:09 <shachaf> `le//rn possibility//If possibility did not exist, it would be not possible for Taneb not to invent it.
21:12:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'possibility': If possibility did not exist, it would be not possible for Taneb not to invent it.
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21:12:57 <oerjan> `slwd possibility//s/be not/not be/
21:13:03 <HackEgo> possibility//If possibility did not exist, it would not be possible for Taneb not to invent it.
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21:16:31 * int-e dares oerjan to do this for "opportunity" as well.
21:17:20 <oerjan> `slwd opportunity//s/be not/not be/
21:17:28 <oerjan> int-e: didn't work hth
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23:04:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Atenfyr * New user account
23:08:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50596&oldid=50573 * Atenfyr * (+238) /* Introductions */
23:08:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50597&oldid=36560 * Atenfyr * (-80) Changed the hello world code to a shorter version (and also prints out the comma and exclamation mark)
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23:17:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50598&oldid=50597 * Atenfyr * (+2167) Added my interpreter as well as an example that prints out the entire alphabet.
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23:33:47 <HackEgo> [U+061B ARABIC SEMICOLON]
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23:49:05 <oerjan> izabera: e.g. if you start with 52341 -> 25314
23:49:20 <oerjan> you need a single element block in the middle
23:50:04 <izabera> ok but not more than triples
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00:37:09 <fizzie> I'm watching this QI thing, I wonder if this is a British thing to be doing.
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01:16:43 <augur> fizzie: QI is awesome
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01:18:32 <myname> i thought something similar
01:18:43 <myname> the german word for content actually starts with an i
01:20:53 <izabera> https://www.reddit.com/r/css_irl/
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01:45:36 <fizzie> "Quite Interesting". It's a BBC thing.
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03:06:34 <lambdabot> oerjan said 7h 12m 46s ago: @tell doesn't support arbitrary punctuation after the nick so i have no idea what you said in the second message hth also i was not requesting on my own behalf, clearly
03:07:08 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. oops. my bad. can I still mapole you in two years?
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03:17:33 <HackEgo> 1/2:loop//loop: see loop \ possibility//If possibility did not exist, it would not be possible for Taneb not to invent it. \ histogram//Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them. \ moon//Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. He sometimes causes overmoonification. \ stibia//Stibia is a s
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03:20:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:pice that grows in your leg.
03:21:03 <HackEgo> the five wisdoms? ¯\(°_o)/¯
03:25:59 <boily> hellochaf. what are the five wisdoms?
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07:51:25 <shachaf> Cale: http://slbkbs.org/prismata-cpu-temp.png can you guess when I started and finished playing Prismata?
07:52:46 <shachaf> Hmm, that graph is the average core temperature, the maximum temperature is even higher.
07:53:25 <shachaf> Updated to the maximum temperature graph.
07:55:33 <shachaf> Oh man, going back a few hours, you can see each of my Prismata games as a temperature spike.
07:55:38 <shachaf> They should really fix this.
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09:16:37 <zgrep> `le/rn the five wisdoms//The first wisdom is that there is only one wisdom.
09:16:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'the five wisdoms': The first wisdom is that there is only one wisdom.
09:17:17 <zgrep> `le/rn the five wisdoms//The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom.
09:17:19 <HackEgo> Relearned 'the five wisdoms': The first of the five wisdoms is that there is only one wisdom.
09:17:45 <zgrep> You don't have to.
09:19:59 * zgrep . o O ( The second wisdom has been auctioned to the highest bidder. We apologize for the inconvenience. )
10:26:00 <int-e> zgrep: it was sold for -1 zorkmid?
10:28:53 <int-e> The first wisdom of christmas is that there is no Santa Claus, and no wisdom. (It's christmas, so we packaged two wisdoms into one, out of pure generosity!)
10:32:53 <zgrep> int-e: I don't know the actual amount. We had to use something to power Santa's stove.
10:32:59 <zgrep> So we threw in the invoice.
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10:51:06 <int-e> hmm, association: http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/011219.html (left column are expenses, right column is income, thought bubble reads "wait a moment, this doesn't really pay off")
10:51:51 <zgrep> What are the expenses?
10:52:39 <int-e> food for reindeers, rent for sled, red costume, good/bad list from the CIA, gifts.
10:53:16 <myname> i would buy that list for 20 bucks
10:53:18 <int-e> hmm, it's good/naughty, isn't it.
10:53:55 <int-e> the presents are surprisingly cheap, too
10:57:16 <zgrep> I think Santa buys them in bulk and directly from the source.
10:58:05 <int-e> He also has access to cheap elf labour.
10:59:29 <int-e> Apparently they don't even need food.
10:59:53 <int-e> But perhaps they're outsourced and have become part of the presents item.
11:00:34 <int-e> This is a common trick to evade employment protection laws.
11:03:50 <myname> does the north pole even has jurisdiction?
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11:08:11 <int-e> Tricky, because nobody is enforcing anything up/down/whatever there.
11:09:55 <int-e> Best I can tell it makes most sense to treat the pole itself as international waters.
11:10:34 <int-e> But I lack the patience to read all of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic#North_Pole_and_the_Arctic_Ocean in the hope of finding something concrete about the pole itself.
11:12:38 <int-e> Ah, this seems clear enough: "Currently, under international law, no country owns the North Pole or the region of the Arctic Ocean surrounding it. The five surrounding Arctic countries, Russian Federation (the biggest country), Canada, Norway, Denmark (via Greenland), and the United States (via Alaska), are limited to a 200-nautical-mile (370 km; 230 mi) exclusive economic zone around their...
11:12:44 <int-e> ...coasts, and the area beyond that is administered by the International Seabed Authority." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole#Territorial_claims_to_the_North_Pole_and_Arctic_regions
11:14:41 <int-e> But at least Canada wants to claim territory all the way to the pole.
11:22:24 <zgrep> «in the hope of finding something concrete about the pole itself.» I doubt the pole is made of concrete. I doubt there's a physical pole at the pole either (Santa retracts it so that it doesn't bend in the wind).
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12:31:27 <int-e> zgrep: I suppose a pole made out of concrete would be a severe handicap in pole jumping.
12:32:40 <zgrep> It'd be pretty good for pole vaulting, though. Not great, concrete's not the best material out of which to make vaults, but acceptable.
12:32:54 <int-e> (There's a third meaning of "pole" but as a german I probably shouldn't go there.)
13:31:26 <fizzie> The jurisdictional status of the north pole is irrelevant for Santa anyway, because everyone knows he operates from Finnish Lapland.
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14:41:14 <lambdabot> boily said 11h 34m 6s ago: hellørjan. oops. my bad. can I still mapole you in two years?
14:41:39 <oerjan> @tell boily I'm sure I'll deserve it hth
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15:28:55 <boily> fungot: holidays nostril!
15:28:56 <fungot> boily: to use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/ new/ scheme and enter your paste. i'll comment further when i can take from the exact opposite. :p terribly out of tune like this
15:29:06 <lambdabot> oerjan said 47m 26s ago: I'm sure I'll deserve it hth
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16:50:32 * oerjan eats his traditional nutella ball
16:55:21 <oerjan> google translates that as "does". strange greeting...
16:56:02 <fizzie> They have a Nutella <something> at the <chain restaurant>s in <country>.
16:56:04 <fizzie> (I've forgotten most things about that factoid.)
16:56:32 <fizzie> Ah: burger, McDonald's, Italy.
16:56:32 <oerjan> apparently it also means "hello".
16:57:31 <fizzie> Incidentally, how do you form the genitive of "McDonald's"? Is it just the same thing?
16:58:27 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure we've discussed that before.
16:58:42 <oerjan> or possibly i saw it elsewhere.
16:59:55 <fizzie> (And is the plural "McDonalds'"?)
17:01:07 <oerjan> it's not like it's unheard of for english to drop an inflection when it's awkward: consider -er.
17:06:05 <fizzie> I was wondering if the plural was possibly "McDonald'ses".
17:08:25 <boily> “A frying of McDonald'ses”
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18:50:25 <int-e> why would a bank's homepage include scripts from etracker.com...
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19:00:29 <shachaf> a cough is the dual of an ugh
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20:50:27 <HackEgo> IceFly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:51:12 <oerjan> @tell fizzie something weird with this commit http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/bbcd13bb5a35
20:52:23 <HackEgo> main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="
20:52:53 <HackEgo> 10012:2016-12-22 <zgrëp> quines/haskell
20:53:01 <oerjan> `` ls -l quines/haskell
20:53:05 <HackEgo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 53 Oct 28 18:37 quines/haskell
20:53:21 <oerjan> @tell fizzie never mind, it created an empty file
20:53:29 <HackEgo> 8602:2016-06-25 <int-̈e> ` ( echo \'main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="\' ) > quines/haskell \ 8601:2016-06-25 <int-̈e> ` ( echo \'main=putStr s>>print s\'; echo \'s="main=putStr s>>print s\\ns="\' ) > quines/haskell \ 7913:2016-05-07 <shachäf> mkx quines/haskell//echo \'main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"\
20:53:57 <shachaf> int-e decompiled my program!
20:54:38 <shachaf> Well, made it break by turning the executable compiled Haskell code into the Haskell source code.
20:54:55 <shachaf> Which is being executed with sh.
20:56:14 <shachaf> int-e: what's that all about
20:56:45 * oerjan wonders if that is a reference to something
20:57:45 <oerjan> the only google hit is not something i'd expect shachaf to reference.
20:58:33 <oerjan> (well, two hits referencing the same thing)
20:58:52 <oerjan> dammit the internet is slowing down again
20:59:03 <shachaf> it is an expansion of "tdnh" hth
20:59:26 <oerjan> . o O ( are all the neighbors testing their new ipads simultaneously )
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21:00:16 <oerjan> `` chmod a-x quines/haskell
21:00:45 <oerjan> i was too lazy to do the other thing.
21:00:50 <shachaf> also why wouldn't you expect me to reference Elements Of Crime – Shitehawks?
21:01:08 <oerjan> it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you use to reference
21:01:32 <HackEgo> main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="
21:01:51 <shachaf> `` chmod +x quines/haskell; sled "quines/haskell//s#^#echo '#; s#$#'#"
21:01:54 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 18: unterminated `s' command
21:02:05 <shachaf> `` chmod +x quines/haskell; sled "quines/haskell//s#^#echo '#; s#\$#'#"
21:02:10 <HackEgo> quines/haskell//echo 'main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="'
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21:02:17 <HackEgo> main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s;s="
21:08:12 <HackEgo> quines/c \ quines/cat \ quines/ciol \ quines/haskell \ quines/perl \ quines/python \ quines/q \ quines/q2 \ quines/ruby \ quines/slashes
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21:22:27 * boily christmapoles hppavilion[1] with glitters and sequins and blinkenlights
21:25:46 <boily> it's 16h25 December 24 here, but I'm taking no chance.
21:40:24 <shachaf> a christmapole? is that a festivus thing?
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21:46:55 <boily> ybdellon, helloochaf. it's a Winter Solstice Limited Edition™ Mapole.
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22:16:49 <boily> hppavilion[1]: you may want to take a look at ISO 8601 and/or RFC 2822.
22:17:17 <fizzie> As always with standards, there's multiple standard ways.
22:18:51 <boily> time is weird. Taneb goes through it.
22:21:48 <Taneb> boily, it's like a burrito
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22:22:38 <boily> fungot: what's the nutritional value of a monad?
22:22:38 <fungot> boily: " memq", " functions" ( fnord unix)
22:24:50 <Taneb> `quote time is like a burrito
22:25:02 <HackEgo> 33) <mycroftiv> [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective \ 59) <oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program \ 86) <oerjan> insufficient time dilation. try running faster. \ 109) <fungot>
22:25:14 <Taneb> Half-remembering a quote is fun
22:25:18 <HackEgo> 877) <ais523> btw, I finally discovered what a burrito was, recently <ais523> they're kind of nice to eat <ais523> but don't really resemble monads \ 910) <elliott> well what is time <elliott> imo: an illusion [...] <Taneb> elliott, I think it's more like a burrito <Taneb> If you have too much of time you get ill <Taneb> But damn it felt good
22:25:30 <HackEgo> 910) <elliott> well what is time <elliott> imo: an illusion [...] <Taneb> elliott, I think it's more like a burrito <Taneb> If you have too much of time you get ill <Taneb> But damn it felt good <Taneb> You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun <ais523> burritos don't work like that!
22:26:09 <rdococ> Everyone knows time is simply imaginary space.
22:27:15 <rdococ> and we need more chat to fill it.
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22:34:32 * oerjan empties a barrel of crickets onto rdococ
22:34:42 <HackEgo> the four wisdoms? ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:35:12 <shachaf> I believe only oerjan knows all four wisdoms.
22:35:23 <rdococ> Wisdom, intelligence, knowledge, bananas
22:35:28 <HackEgo> Your completionist @messages-lord færic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
22:35:48 <shachaf> `slwrjan s completionist wise
22:35:49 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slwrjan: not found
22:35:57 <shachaf> `swrjan s completionist wise
22:36:01 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord færic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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22:36:22 <HackEgo> 10021:2016-12-24 <shachäf> swrjan s completionist wise \ 9962:2016-12-14 <boil̈y> slwd oerjan//s/swr/f\xc3\xa6ric/ \ 9883:2016-12-07 <oerjän> swrjan s/oerjan/swr &/ \ 9882:2016-12-07 <shachäf> swrjan s#golfing#completionist#; soaoeo \ 9804:2016-11-30 <shachäf> slwrjan sgrowlingolfing \ 9803:2016-11-30 <shachäf> slwrjan s\x16helpful\x16gr
22:36:44 <oerjan> `le/rn second wisdom//The second wisdom is that wisdom can never be complete or consistent.
22:36:44 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
22:36:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'second wisdom': The second wisdom is that wisdom can never be complete or consistent.
22:38:08 <rdococ> that's like saying 2+2 isn't always 4
22:38:25 <rdococ> (I mean, it's not in base 3 but that's beside the point)
22:38:35 <rdococ> (well, it IS in base 3, but represented by 11 instead)
22:38:57 <rdococ> Wisdom is knowledge, yes?
22:39:18 <oerjan> a common misinterpretation among the unwise.
22:39:45 <rdococ> Enlighten me, then, oh so wise lord.
22:40:30 <rdococ> Ohh, so wise is being on fire.
22:40:39 * oerjan serves roasted crickets to everyone
22:40:45 * rdococ douses oerjan in water
22:40:56 <rdococ> Does that make you unwise now?
22:41:08 <shachaf> as they say in the united states: cricket or ticket
22:41:35 <rdococ> Google says it means knowledge... which means it definitely DOESN'T
22:41:58 <oerjan> google often gets translations wrong when subtlety is involved.
22:42:12 <rdococ> okay, so what is wisdom?
22:42:13 <oerjan> shachaf: and what does it mean?
22:42:19 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an equivalent to e^ix = cos(x)+i·sin(x) for Quaternions?
22:42:52 <hppavilion[1]> The most likely answer is that e^jx = cos(x)+j·sin(x) and e^kx = cos(x)+k·sin(x), but I'm not sure.
22:42:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the formula should still be true assuming quaternions are a banach algebra
22:42:57 <shachaf> oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_It_or_Ticket hth
22:43:12 <rdococ> I believe all of those three formulae are true...
22:43:43 <rdococ> but since, iirc, quaternions are equal to their inverse, that means that e^ix = -e^ix... I think
22:44:08 <rdococ> Nevermind, actually - I'm mixing normalized quaternions with unnormalized quaternions.
22:45:57 <HackEgo> @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour.
22:46:01 <HackEgo> |a+b@| = { √(a²-b²) if a²-b² ≥ 0 ; i√(a²-b²) if a²-b² < 0 }
22:46:34 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Presumably |-@| = |@|, but given @ it's hard to be sure
22:47:26 <oerjan> hm the quaternions are a real banach algebra. which means e^, cos and sin can be defined by their series.
22:48:13 <oerjan> and i'm guessing that means _any_ c fitting c^2 = -1 also can be used for the formula.
22:49:03 <rdococ> I think |-@| = |@| = -1
22:49:13 <rdococ> it doesn't mean @ = -@ tho
22:49:29 <hppavilion[1]> I guess if the properties |a@| = -a and |ab| = |a||b| are to be preserved, |-@| = -1
22:50:07 <hppavilion[1]> Since in this case, we can say |-@| = |(-1)*@| = |-1||@| = 1*|@| = |@| = -1
22:52:02 <rdococ> it's unique like sqrt(-1) for i is
22:52:11 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Yeah, a lot of people take issue with it, but I don't see how it'sthat different
22:53:06 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: If @ were to be given a more proper name that doesn't feel like it should be an operator, do you think Ω would do?
22:53:11 <rdococ> I'll have to try to rack up my brains with a unique number like that
22:53:42 <rdococ> perhaps... maybe something closer to epsilon though seeing as its size |@| is literally negative
22:55:07 <rdococ> Really you could define any number x where |x| = e^it for any angle t... for 0, you'd have x=1. for pi, you'd have x=Ω. for pi/2, x=γ. I think.
22:57:07 <rdococ> but then you could have some number whose absolute value is @...
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23:28:36 <Taneb> Do you mean x/(x+y)?
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23:47:30 <IceFly> I hope so, since otherwise x is just increment except with a smaller domain
23:47:55 <IceFly> err, : is just increment x*
23:54:02 <shachaf> To say that for destruction IceFly / Is also great / And would sufficefly.
23:54:24 <Taneb> It's quite nicefly
00:23:23 <boily> weren't there five wisdoms? why are there only four now?
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00:49:30 <shachaf> Someone put in a scow wisdom entry for the five wisdoms, so I'm put off.
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00:49:41 <shachaf> Now I'm all about the four wisdoms.
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00:52:46 <oerjan> `le/rn the third wisdom//The third wisdom is that four equals five.
00:52:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'the third wisdom': The third wisdom is that four equals five.
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00:55:39 <boily> so there are both of them, all fouve.
01:04:10 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
01:05:35 <HackEgo> A spork is something to be randomly held in front of penguins.
01:06:18 <oerjan> even the booby-trapped ones?
01:06:35 <boily> moonheart08: you're toying with your life. are you certified?
01:09:29 * oerjan hides behind a rock in case moonheart08 explodes
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01:13:05 <int-e> shachaf: I shortened it
01:13:35 * moonheart08 explodes in rainbows from boobytrapped mapoles bcuz he can
01:14:05 <HackEgo> 10020:2016-12-24 <shachäf> ` chmod +x quines/haskell; sled "quines/haskell//s#^#echo \'#; s#\\$#\'#" \ 10019:2016-12-24 <shachäf> ` chmod +x quines/haskell; sled "quines/haskell//s#^#echo \'#; s#$#\'#" \ 10018:2016-12-24 <oerjän> ` chmod a-x quines/haskell \ 8602:2016-06-25 <int-̈e> ` ( echo \'main=putStr s>>print s;s="main=putStr s>>print s
01:14:34 <HackEgo> 2/2:Str s>>print s;s="\' ) > quines/haskell \ 8601:2016-06-25 <int-̈e> ` ( echo \'main=putStr s>>print s\'; echo \'s="main=putStr s>>print s\\ns="\' ) > quines/haskell \ 7913:2016-05-07 <shachäf> mkx quines/haskell//echo \'main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"main=putStrLn$(<*>)(++)show"\'
01:14:55 <shachaf> I see, you golfed the quine and got rid of the echo by accident.
01:15:45 <int-e> . o O ( why would a quine not be a quine anyway... meh )
01:15:56 <oerjan> let that be a lesson to use `mk hth
01:16:25 <int-e> oerjan: it's not due to mk... I didn't really expect the echo.
01:16:43 <int-e> also sleepy, good night
01:17:34 <shachaf> int-e: Well, classically there would be a GHC-compiled binary of the quine.
01:17:46 <shachaf> int-e: But GHC isn't available, so I compiled it to sh by hand.
01:17:56 <int-e> "golf" could be a plausible typo for "gold", or vice versa.
01:20:01 <oerjan> `learn Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke.
01:20:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'golf': Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke.
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03:28:10 * santaoon derps a derped derp and runs from the insueing derped explosion of derpy derped derps and derps the derp award for most derpy derped derps in a derpy sentence
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03:41:04 <boily> he\\oren\, santahelloon.
03:42:38 <HackEgo> Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner.
03:43:12 <boily> a porthello is a hello portmanteau.
03:43:28 <HackEgo> Thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
03:43:33 <HackEgo> Caffè is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in Italy.
03:43:36 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”, Icelandic „íðdegis“) is a screamingly delicious pastry.
03:46:01 <rdococ> I will now come up with an esoteric temperatur3 sc4le.
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03:54:02 <\oren\> rdococ: that should play merry hell with the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution.
03:55:46 <\oren\> what's the square root of i cubed?
04:00:26 <boily> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sqrt(i+%5E+3)
04:02:58 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Quantity Calculus (aka "Dimensional Analysis") has you measuring by multiply "Quantities" (aka "Dimensions") which are raised to integer or sometimes real powers.
04:03:24 <hppavilion[1]> Complex Quantity Calculus probably has a use somewhere in the universe
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04:46:54 <rdococ_> Now we should multiply the i coefficient by 39reif/
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05:27:03 <rdococ> internet connectivity issues
05:27:19 <rdococ> my internet strength is a sine wave
05:28:31 <rdococ> 100... then 0... then 100...
05:28:47 <rdococ> a sine wave + 0.5, basically.
05:42:55 <rdococ> of course, negative connectivity would mean that when I try to load a webpage, I lose information about that webpage rather than gain it.
05:43:18 <rdococ> negative information, however...
05:45:20 <rdococ> channuvilion[1], what do you think about negative information?
05:46:34 <rdococ> also... my internet is slower than 70% of GB
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05:54:25 <zgrep> rdococ: If I take a small piece of your brain, have I given you negative information?
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05:57:33 <rdococ> see, the more information there is, the more variety there is
06:04:26 <rdococ> the less info, the less possible kinds of info it could be
06:04:32 <rdococ> so negative info comes in negative varieties
06:14:14 <rdococ> is that negative info?
06:14:49 <pikhq_> "Kurisumasa" is a real weird way of Japanizing that.
06:15:14 <pikhq_> rdococ: Um, I guess negative information works in a thermodynamic sense, but...
06:16:01 <rdococ> imagine one bit of info.
06:16:26 <rdococ> two bits carry twice as much variation... three bits again, twice as much as before...
06:16:42 <rdococ> so 0 bits would carry 1 variation and -1 bits 0.5?
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06:30:13 <\oren\> ﾒﾘｰ ｸﾘｽﾏｽ ﾜﾝ ｱﾝﾄﾞ ｵｰﾙ!
06:38:47 <pikhq_> ｳｪﾙ､ ﾕ ｼｰ､ ｲﾝ ｼﾞｬﾊﾟﾝ ｾﾞｲ ｼﾝﾌﾟﾘｰ ﾁｪﾝｼﾞｯﾄﾞ ｻﾞ ﾌｫﾝﾂ ﾌｫｱ ｲﾝｸﾞﾘｯｼｭ ｺﾝﾋﾟｭﾀｰｽﾞ ﾂｰ ﾊｳﾞ ｼﾞｬﾊﾟﾆｰｽﾞ ﾃｷｽﾄ ｲﾝ ｾﾞﾑ｡
06:42:02 <pikhq_> (Well, you see, in Japan they simply changed the fonts for English computers to have Japanese text in them.)
06:43:35 <pikhq_> Or if you prefer: weru, yu shii, in japan zei shinpurii chenjeddo za fontsu foa ingurisshu konpyutāzu tsuu havu japaniizu tekisuto in zemu.
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07:17:57 <Jafet> negative information is when a web page that was cached gets replaced by a domain parking page
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07:32:17 <rdococ> Imagine information as a range of switches
07:32:38 <rdococ> every switch multiplies the possible variations by 2
07:32:46 <rdococ> so for n bits you have 2^n info
07:33:17 <rdococ> thing is tho, in this system 1 info is no information since it's multiplicative
07:49:39 <izabera> pikhq_: tekisuto? not tekusuto?
07:49:58 <izabera> pikhq_: also why zei and zemu? i expected dei and demu
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08:11:03 <izabera> i just found out that this is an italian dessert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuppa_Inglese
08:11:09 <izabera> my whole life has been a lie
08:27:50 <rdococ> fun fact: my internet is slower than 70% of my country's internet
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09:24:12 <HackEgo> 314) <zzo38> I figured out something about C program. If you use ? : a lot then you don't need as much parentheses but it makes it more difficult to understand.
09:24:19 <HackEgo> 314) <zzo38> I figured out something about C program. If you use ? : a lot then you don't need as much parentheses but it makes it more difficult to understand.
09:24:28 <HackEgo> 197) <nddrylliog> are you always careful to have a small enough margin so that it can't contain the proof? <oklofok> nddrylliog: i usually use latex, and make sure my hd is almost full \ 810) <Fiora> omg <Fiora> that JIT is really amazing [...] <Gregor> I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can
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09:46:15 <kiki`> rdococ: k * v with k between 0 and 1
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10:38:49 <rdococ> it's clearly christmas
10:38:55 <rdococ> but it's an easy mistake for a programmer to make
10:39:11 <rdococ> because DEC 25 = OCT 31 :p
10:40:50 <rdococ> or in my favourite base, 25 = 12*2 + 1
10:42:06 <kiki`> rdococ: you don't want to tell me, you've been that witty like.. ad hoc, do you? :o never
10:42:48 <kiki`> is that a classic joke?
10:42:59 <Taneb> It was a joke I was making
10:43:11 <Taneb> But I got it from I think a Murderous Maths book
10:43:13 <rdococ> and I knew what Taneb was joking about
10:43:33 <rdococ> nah, Taneb didn't invent it (I don't think)
11:09:04 <shachaf> extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence hth
11:18:11 <myname> since christmas or halloween might involve sex, taneb couldn't have invented it
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11:41:57 <channuvilion[1]> myname: If we include Pagan christmas, it almost definitely involves sex
11:42:11 <channuvilion[1]> myname: Especially given that the trees are to honor Freya, Goddess of Fertility
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15:24:20 <oerjan> `addquote <izabera> i just found out that this is an italian dessert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuppa_Inglese <izabera> my whole life has been a lie
15:24:44 <HackEgo> 1303) <izabera> i just found out that this is an italian dessert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuppa_Inglese <izabera> my whole life has been a lie
15:26:08 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
15:26:47 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
15:27:10 <HackEgo> 8c8 \ < else shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -n 1; fi \ --- \ > else shuf -n 1; fi
15:27:48 <HackEgo> 9771:2016-11-24 <oerjän> sled bin/quote//s,shuf,shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom, \ 978:2012-12-09 <Gregör> revert \ 977:2012-12-09 <shachäf> cp bin/quote bin/realquote; echo -n $'#!/bin/sh\nsleep 1\nrealquote "$@"\n' > bin/quote \ 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import.
15:29:09 <oerjan> `` cp bin/quote{,s} # add rng improv
15:30:55 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
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15:48:54 <boily> Joyeux Noësoteric!
15:51:45 <boily> fungot: merry christmas pis plein d'affaires de même toi aussi!
15:51:46 <fungot> boily: that is) it'd start to take pictures and upload them on scene.org, so as to work around chicken module quirks.
15:52:31 <fungot> int-e: i don't know the details yet, though, are people who have a pointer handy?
15:52:51 <int-e> fungot: what if they have a pitchfork?
15:52:52 <fungot> int-e: where do you get soft-porn from that anyway.) in the middle there's this " strong normalization" result. the result of comparing one of the first thing
15:52:55 * oerjan hands fungot a pointer ===/-
15:52:55 <fungot> oerjan: any progress with the change of centuries we would seize control of the compiler
15:53:17 * int-e wonders where fungot learned about ponr.
15:53:17 <oerjan> fungot: we changed century not that long ago, please be patient
15:53:18 <fungot> int-e: given what arcanities of english rules i make use of that new length.
15:53:18 <fungot> oerjan: four cups of tea from today is wearing off and dragging me down. like if you look for it, so if all i do is move files around, edit with emacs/ pico, and use erc when i need you
15:54:39 <int-e> fungot: I'm not sure that "arcane" is doing your abuse of the english grammar justice.
15:54:39 <fungot> int-e: there's the soft ending one or two arguments. but i like it. as soon as possible
15:55:17 <oerjan> strong normalization of soft porn, sounds scientific
15:55:51 <oerjan> fungot: oh right, i should get more caffeine
15:55:51 <fungot> oerjan: sounds like fun stuff. _ is a quine in a way
15:56:11 <boily> int-ello. I think fungot is misaligned with the Usual Dimensions of this Hapless Universe, releasing haphazard bursts of arcane energy across the Galaxy.
15:56:11 <fungot> boily: does anyone know whether r6rs is still planning to make them safe. also, it's /very/ frustrating to only be a penalty for creating a good irc server would make all this effort, already?
15:56:19 <oerjan> int-e: dost fungot arcaneth too much?
15:56:20 <fungot> oerjan: maybe one day we will. you can get plussa from nato membership fees.
15:56:31 <int-e> tea begets more tea, so it has quine-like properties
15:58:48 <oerjan> similar to afk, i think
15:58:51 <int-e> auto-focus comes to mind
15:59:19 <int-e> . o O ( autofocus is mechanized obsession built into cameras )
15:59:39 <oerjan> `learn Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens.
15:59:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'adjective': Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens.
15:59:46 <int-e> s/cameras/obscure chambers/
16:02:15 <oerjan> time for today's nutella ball
16:05:49 <int-e> actually that pun may be better suited for a short lesson in etymology: The origin of the term "camera" is very obscure.
16:06:46 <oerjan> i can't quite pinpoint the hole in that claim
16:08:59 <int-e> pinhole cameras have such beautiful distortions.
16:08:59 * boily M-M-M-M-MULTI THWACKS both oerjan and int-e in one swift hook
16:10:00 <int-e> look at the last sample here... http://blogs.egusd.net/katzenbargerj/2015/01/08/pinhole/
16:11:37 <boily> http://pinhole.cz/ ← with a DIY paper pinhole camera!
16:16:26 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
16:31:45 <HackEgo> dragon//Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
16:32:17 <boily> . o O ( are komodo dragons edible? )
16:32:28 <int-e> they probably taste like chicken
16:33:46 <int-e> https://www.quora.com/Can-you-eat-Komodo-dragon-What-does-it-taste-like
16:34:11 <int-e> suggests yes, actually suggests it has a distinct flavour (so not chicken)
16:36:20 <int-e> I guess that's the most useful answer I'll find... 4 google hits further and I'm at https://forums.t-nation.com/t/komodo-dragon-meat/128563
17:11:52 <rdococ> how about an operator Ψ, where Ψf(x) = x
17:13:23 <rdococ> I picked Ψ because it looks like both a w and a y, and I like to call the operator the "why" operator
17:20:14 <rdococ> not even the weird integer-e type?
17:20:52 * moony derps a derped derp and runs from the insueing derped explosion of derpy derped derps and derps the derp award for most derpy derped derps in a derpy sentence
17:25:01 <pikhq_> izabera: "z" is more usual as the Japanization of the dental fricative. And "tekisuto" is the standard transcription.
17:26:37 <fungot> That Pong alone cannot stop!
17:27:20 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pung: not found
17:27:40 <moony> `mk pung//echo ping #just because loops
17:27:51 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pung: not found
17:28:06 <moony> `mkx pung//echo ping #just because loops
17:28:15 <oerjan> <rdococ> how about an operator Ψ, where Ψf(x) = x <-- doesn't look linear, (Ψf+Ψg)(x) = 2x != Ψ(f+g)(x)
17:28:15 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `pung bin/pung' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
17:28:27 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pung: not found
17:28:35 <moony> `` mv pung bin/pung
17:28:41 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pung: not found
17:29:19 <oerjan> (also Ψ is pretty much taken for the schrödinger operator, which _is_ linear)
17:30:09 <rdococ> schrodinger operation?
17:34:54 * oerjan smashes his keyboard to pieces
17:35:18 <oerjan> rdococ: oh wait Ψ is the schrödinger _vector_.
17:36:00 <oerjan> also, i don't see what was unclear in that line hth
17:39:45 <rdococ> now imagine we pick a variable, x, and do Ψx
17:40:26 <rdococ> well, that's a function x=x so it would be x
17:41:42 <oerjan> that doesn't work, too ambiguous.
17:43:09 <oerjan> don't treat variables as functions of themselves if you have any higher-order functions in sight.
17:43:44 <oerjan> also, burn all the high school books which do this twh
17:50:31 <oerjan> <myname> since christmas or halloween might involve sex, taneb couldn't have invented it <-- this argument has been considered and rejected before, it doesn't count if the sex is added after invention hth
17:55:05 <rdococ> x is in no way a function
17:55:15 <rdococ> I don't see what it could be
17:55:21 <rdococ> but let's make it be anyway
17:56:08 <boily> x(t) is often encoutered in mechanics: position of an object w.r.t. time.
17:56:58 <boily> strangely enough, the cyrillic script isn't used in mathematics...
17:57:17 <rdococ> so... if Ψx = ξ... does that have any special properties?
17:58:07 <oerjan> boily: that's because wolfram hasn't managed to find out how palatalize functions yet hth
17:58:28 <rdococ> well, what you said above seems to suggest that (Ψf)(x) = Ψf(x)
17:58:33 <oerjan> oh read that as mathematica
17:59:05 * oerjan procrastinates getting glasses some more
17:59:27 <oerjan> rdococ: well that's just precedence.
17:59:32 <rdococ> Ψf(x) = x... we could say that Ψf is the identity function but I don't think that's quite it
17:59:39 <oerjan> and comes natural to all haskellers.
18:00:29 <oerjan> rdococ: it's pretty much the definition of the identity function hth
18:01:57 <rdococ> but say you take sin(theta), store it in a variable x. then Ψx = theta
18:02:20 <rdococ> at least in my vision of it
18:02:52 <oerjan> now you're not just type incorrect but impure as well
18:10:23 <rdococ> log(x*y) = log(x) + log(y)... so what about log(x+y)?
18:12:15 <int-e> which is actually a useful way of writing it
18:12:43 <rdococ> it seems like a natural lower operation to addition
18:14:28 <rdococ> imagine a culture that prefers the ratio operator, x:y = x/(x+y)
18:16:15 <oerjan> = log(x+y), that was the point
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18:19:28 <rdococ> inverse ratio, x;y = -xy/(y-1)... so 2;2 = -4/1 = -4... and 4;4 = -16/3...
18:40:15 <rdococ> wanna know a cool science fact?
18:40:42 <rdococ> we are two thirds rust...
18:40:47 <rdococ> hydrogen rust, to be specific
18:52:56 <int-e> (I made it as far as reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust before deciding that I don't want to fall victim to https://xkcd.com/386/ )
18:53:21 <oerjan> more like 3/4 hydrogen ash hth
18:54:16 <int-e> oerjan's making it worse.
18:55:36 <oerjan> i suppose the part that is still hydrogen doesn't count as ash...
18:56:09 <oerjan> but that can't be that much by mass.
18:57:03 <int-e> "Many studies have been conducted regarding the chemical composition of wood ash, with widely varying results. Some quote calcium carbonate (CaCO3) as the major constituent,[1] others find no carbonate at all, but calcium oxide (CaO) instead.[2] Some show as much as twelve percent iron oxide[2] while others show none,[3] though iron oxide is often introduced through contamination with soil."
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18:59:01 <int-e> I think I'll gloss over the difficulty of producing 1/4 Helium-4
18:59:38 <int-e> (Also I guess that if you're unlucky you'll get a neutron.)
19:00:27 <oerjan> um 1/4 helium-4 is what you start with hth
19:00:50 <oerjan> i suppose i missed an ash in there
19:02:15 <int-e> ashes don't grow on trees?
19:03:50 <int-e> though maybe you could splice an ash branch on another tree, hmm
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19:27:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DUP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50599&oldid=20095 * Albedo * (+91) /* External resources */ Addition of Julia interpreter.
19:29:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DUP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50600&oldid=50599 * Albedo * (+38) /* External resources */
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20:48:04 <myname> oerjan: i don't see how sex was added to the "celebration of love" afterwards instead of being a planed part
20:49:20 <oerjan> you're aware of the virgin birth, right?
20:49:28 <oerjan> no sex involved at all hth
20:50:36 <myname> but wouldn't that mean Taneb has to be a few centuries old?
20:51:08 <oerjan> well he already invented the universe, i don't see how christmas makes that worse.
21:07:08 <int-e> damn, another comic hit the waiting for updates wall.
21:07:36 <oerjan> what's the waiting for updates wall
21:08:11 <int-e> Everblue, in this case.
21:08:30 <myname> let me just open my comic reader
21:11:37 <myname> i am in this weird state of having enough to read but still wanting more
21:17:10 <int-e> it doesn't help that quite some webcomic authors took off over the christmas holidays
21:18:00 <myname> do you have a good source for new comics?
21:20:00 <int-e> nah, basically I just follow links from other comics
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21:28:45 <rdococ> %_x = 1/100_x; for any base x
21:34:14 <fizzie> "I remember my father said that he remembers as a boy listening to Sir Belleus, the Finnish composer, --"
21:34:17 <fizzie> Good job, whoever wrote these subtitles.
21:35:15 <fizzie> I was watching this BBC show, QI, from Netflix (free trial). I don't know if the Netflix subtitles are their own, or BBC's.
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21:36:17 <shachaf> that is a quite interesting transcription hth
21:36:30 <int-e> Oh that would have been funny if I had known about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Sibelius
21:38:00 <fizzie> As far as Finnish composers go, you can hardly get more famous, but I'm not sure where that really ranks globally.
21:38:18 <fizzie> "Sir Belleus" would be a funny name for a Finn in any case.
21:39:25 <fizzie> In the movie Swordfish, there's a "Finnish" hacker guy called "Axl Torvalds" (I imagine the name has something to do with Linus), and when he's speaking "Finnish" it's actually German.
21:40:13 <shachaf> Are you sure he isn't speaking "Swedish"?
21:40:36 <fizzie> I think it was implied it was Finnish, though I don't really know how.
21:40:44 <fizzie> Maybe the subtitles said something like [SPEAKING FINNISH].
21:41:03 <oerjan> sir belleus sounds like what monty python would call him, so obviously right for a british series hth
21:41:08 <shachaf> German is a pretty widely recognized language, though.
21:41:39 <int-e> Hmm, I can't tell whether I'm ignorant or whether he's just not that well known. Both are plausible explanations, possibly in combination.
21:42:35 <fizzie> IMDb "Trivia" page for the movie says: "Axl Torvalts [sic] is actually speaking German in the interrogation scene, not Finnish."
21:43:17 <oerjan> i know about sibelius hth
21:43:26 <fizzie> (I'm pretty sure they did get the surname "right" in the actual movie, though.)
21:47:12 <oerjan> int-e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5zg_af9b8c
21:47:22 * oerjan didn't know it was so short
21:50:41 <int-e> wouldn't have watched it anyway (bandwidth), but "This video contains content from Studio Hamburg, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."
21:51:03 <int-e> considerate is the word.
21:52:51 <shachaf> It's more an audio than a video.
21:52:59 <fizzie> Heh. Worked for me in the UK.
21:53:49 <int-e> I could probably circumvent it
21:58:33 <shachaf> Tanebvention = Taneb circumvention?
22:00:36 <oerjan> this one has lyrics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOSaT6U4e-8
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23:40:11 <rdococ> you have sent @ messages
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23:44:46 <rdococ> imagine an alternate timeline where we never used division but instead had a ration operator :
23:45:47 <rdococ> 0:0 would be seen as the same value as 1:1 because the two are the same
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23:47:57 <izabera> > because the two are the same
23:48:00 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: because :: t0 -> t1 -> t2 -> t3 -> t4 -> terror: ...
23:48:05 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:4: error: parse error on input ‘in’
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00:23:01 <moony> try Dwarf Fortress :D there is a help channel for it on Freenode too, its #dwarffortress
00:23:41 <myname> there also is a book from oreilly
00:25:15 <rdococ> imagine an alien timeline where we use ratios (3:3) instead of dividing (3/6)
00:25:20 <moony> i own a copy, it helped me get started, its really well written :P
00:25:38 <myname> i started with some youtube tutorial
00:25:55 <moony> the tutorials on the wiki and the ones on Youtube are also usually really good
00:25:55 <myname> it has a point after 30 minutes of cut video where the player said
00:26:10 <oerjan> rdococ: i'd say that's unrealistic, but then i think of egyptian fractions.
00:26:11 <myname> "finally, we are in the game. this is, where most of the players quit, too"
00:26:43 <myname> somewhere on the wiki even is a tutorial with a downloadable save game to tell you exactly what to do. i fail to find it again, though
00:26:49 * moony throws a pregnned world
00:27:11 <shachaf> oerjan: People already use that for odds.
00:27:25 <rdococ> but what if we used it in math too?
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00:27:54 <rdococ> ik but I meant other regions of math
00:28:11 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm pretty sure this : doesn't mean the same thing hth
00:28:11 * moony builds a robotic arm to deny ALL bard petitions, because bards are useless
00:28:33 <rdococ> 50:50 is 50 of one, and 50 of the other
00:29:01 <moony> but are ratios not built atop dividing? hth
00:29:06 <rdococ> and 1:1 is the same, in fact x:x will always be 1/2 by virtue of being x/2x
00:29:36 <shachaf> Anyway, gambling people are silly.
00:29:41 <shachaf> They use words like "vigorish".
00:30:05 <myname> rdococ: that means 0/0 = .5?
00:30:28 <rdococ> well, for this culture anyway.
00:30:34 <rdococ> also 0/0 is any number so there's that.
00:30:47 <shachaf> any number is exactly what 0/0 isn't hth
00:31:17 <rdococ> x/y = z means that x = z*y, yes?
00:31:34 <rdococ> thus, 0/0 = z means that 0 = z*0... and that is true for all numbers
00:31:56 <shachaf> No, it menas that x*y^-1 = z
00:32:25 <rdococ> uh, how does that prove my point wrong?
00:32:46 <myname> it does so for not having 0^-1 defined per definition of a field
00:33:26 <rdococ> this isn't what we were discussing...
00:33:58 <rdococ> NaN is a programming construct
00:35:53 <int-e> > let x = 0/0 in x == x
00:36:12 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘?’
00:36:20 <moony> do we have type comparison? (i.e. ===)
00:36:28 <moony> > let x = 0/0 in x === x
00:36:31 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty)
00:36:31 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M868981330148735378818045’
00:36:37 <myname> == is type comparison by definition
00:36:47 <myname> you cannot compare different types in haskell
00:37:07 <moony> ik, i ment precision, i.e. NaN === NaN = true
00:37:25 <myname> NaN is per definition false for every co parison
00:37:51 <int-e> > toRational (0/0 :: Float)
00:37:57 <lambdabot> (-510423550381407695195061911147652317184) % 1
00:38:13 <moony> #weee-data-derping
00:38:27 <int-e> One of the darker corners of Haskell.
00:39:38 <shachaf> I like the naming choices for that class.
00:39:39 <lambdabot> class (Num a, Ord a) => Real a where
00:39:57 <int-e> > realToFrac (1/0 :: Float) :: Double
00:40:27 <int-e> that one becomes Infinity with sufficient optimization.
00:40:56 <rdococ> who knew 3.402823669209385e38 = infinity?
00:40:59 <lambdabot> realToFrac = fromRational . toRational
00:41:24 <int-e> that's the official story, but with optimization that conversion will be done by the FPU.
00:41:40 <int-e> As I said, it's a dark corner.
00:42:45 <int-e> good idea... fetch me some gasoline and fabric and a matchbox
00:43:49 <rdococ> what about a programming language that treats cardinals and ordinals differently?
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00:45:09 <myname> like, you couldn't do array[len(array)-1]?
00:45:18 <int-e> cardinals are just ordinals that have no smaller ordinals that have a bijection to them
00:45:54 <int-e> (so no, even in mathematics I prefer not to distinguish between the two)
00:46:35 <int-e> if you want to be cute, why not have n have a container view, where it's [0..n-1]?
00:47:08 <int-e> for i in 3: print i --> prints 0,1,2.
00:47:08 <Taneb> A language where everything is C-style Undefined Behaviour
00:47:23 <int-e> (python-like syntax)
00:47:30 <Taneb> But this isn't immediately obvious from the specification
00:47:51 <int-e> so... basically... C. :-P
00:48:18 <lambdabot> arising from the arithmetic sequence ‘"taneb" .. ’
00:48:56 <rdococ> what about a language where the only type is a boolean (along with arrays eg boolean[]) and you have to construct classes such as integer?
00:49:30 <int-e> that reminds me that I should learn a bit more about VHDL
00:49:47 <int-e> (its capabilities)
00:49:58 <myname> i thpught about something similar, but instead of bits you'd have half of a bit. you could either get its value or have an endless loop on access
00:50:00 <moony> you can construct anything binary out of booleans. (i once made a 64bit integer out of bools in C++ ftl, lost the file due to new laptop)
00:50:13 <rdococ> (Actually no arrays - they require numbers)
00:50:33 <moony> rdococ, 2 bits per array? :P
00:50:41 <int-e> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Kayak sort of fits the bill... even though those are stacks of booleans
00:50:44 <rdococ> moony, that's possible
00:50:59 <myname> boolfuck is a thing, too
00:51:03 <int-e> (The main point of kayak is different, of course)
00:59:00 <moony> REST IN PIECES FORT.
00:59:22 <moony> i dont have a military. *smelts some silver bars for weapons* SUDDENLY WEREBEAT
00:59:31 <rdococ> maybe start with a two bit adder and multiplier
00:59:44 <rdococ> then use them like logic circuits
01:00:07 <moony> rdococ, how about basic NOT gates instead? they are basic gates and can make ALL the things
01:00:43 <myname> how can a unary gate make any binary function?
01:01:11 <moony> no, inversion of the a bit is the notgate im describing
01:02:05 <myname> how do you make an and out of that
01:02:32 <rdococ> what does the a bit mean, moony?
01:02:34 <moony> AND = 'C = NOT A; D = NOT B; NOT (A OR B)'
01:02:39 <moony> technically you need a OR gate as well
01:02:58 <moony> replace the second A and B's with D and C
01:03:14 <myname> you could instead just use NOR
01:03:28 <myname> where you would not need another gate
01:03:30 <moony> yes, NOR works too
01:03:47 <moony> NOR can function as a NOT and a OR at the same time.
01:03:51 <rdococ> just have a NOR or NAND gate
01:03:58 <myname> works. instead of just not
01:04:13 <rdococ> the "NOT gate" works alone... NOT
01:05:09 <moony> i haz been corrected.
01:05:43 <rdococ> "tea or coffee?" "yes."
01:06:02 <moony> "tea or coffee" "true"
01:07:02 * moony suddenly accidentally squirts lemon juice in his eye. FU
01:07:13 <rdococ> "I need you to go to the shop. get me some bread, and if there are eggs get me a dozen." he returns with a dozen loaves.
01:08:27 <rdococ> the way my language will work is that you only get access to NAND
01:08:51 * moony constructs a binary Adder
01:09:04 <myname> have a look at funciton
01:09:42 <moony> my response to funciton when i first saw it: U CAN NO QUINE. AAA U CAN NO QUINE!
01:10:06 <myname> sre you sure you cannot?
01:10:31 <moony> myname, i discovered its possible after reading the article a little, but its absur- wait wrong planguage
01:10:55 <moony> not wrong language at all
01:13:01 * moony connects ALL the wires to themselves
01:14:36 * oerjan points rdococ at NANDYPANTS
01:14:36 <moony> rdococ, your going to turn my typo into something else arn't you lol
01:15:02 <rdococ> its the language of planguage
01:15:17 * moony steals nandypants' pants. nandy is left alone :(
01:15:35 <moony> rdococ, how about cocodr
01:16:53 <oerjan> hm i don't think this is the language i wanted
01:17:05 <oerjan> _even_ though Taneb invented it.
01:17:46 <moony> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton/Quine < rdococ
01:19:55 <rdococ> I still think we should all use When
01:20:14 <rdococ> not the kind of When that... already... exists -.-
01:21:54 <moony> i will use it When it doesnt exist
01:24:21 <myname> does tc imply possibility of quine?
01:32:32 <rdococ> kay so Planguage will be some form of super turing complete language
01:33:02 <moony> wew, a turing complete superset isnt easy to make (i dont know if its possible)
01:33:49 <rdococ> we are not TC machines are we?
01:33:56 <myname> have a look at twoducks
01:33:57 <rdococ> we only have a limited capacity for information.
01:34:17 <rdococ> yet we can tell whether a piece of code will halt or not.
01:35:26 <myname> i can write something like a 200 indirect recursion where each step may or may not terminate based on its input
01:35:54 <myname> you would need a hell of a lot of time to tell me if this will halt or not
01:36:05 <moony> myname, then we can make a chart that shows what input makes each one halt, and make a set of definitive halting paths and not halting paths
01:36:36 <rdococ> if non-TC machines can solve it, there's no excuse for TC machines.
01:36:49 <myname> yeah, good luck of testing a arbitrary deep arbitrary wide tree for not halting paths
01:37:09 <moony> Time requirement != uncomputable
01:37:21 <rdococ> I believe what we need here is a different approach to basic logic.
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01:38:01 <myname> moony: i know, but humans have very very limited ressources
01:38:03 <rdococ> say we have a program p that halts if it does not halt. So doesHalt(p) or a similar function would return !doesHalt(p).
01:38:16 <rdococ> myname: imagine an ideal superhuman then.
01:38:22 <myname> "we can tell" is simply not true
01:38:33 <rdococ> an ideal superhuman would be able to tell.
01:38:39 <myname> and all ypu mentioned can be done by a tm too
01:39:06 <myname> just formulate some kind of halting problem for humans
01:39:44 <myname> this sentence is false.
01:39:51 <myname> determine the truthness of that
01:39:55 <rdococ> that sentence is false if it's not false.
01:40:02 <moony> seriously? its called a 'paradocx' for a reason, but yes, ^
01:40:14 <rdococ> the truthness of that is its inverse.
01:40:25 <rdococ> it's not an incorrect answer.
01:40:27 <myname> that is not a truth value
01:40:40 <myname> it is. valid answers are true and false
01:40:57 <rdococ> if the truthness is not a truth value, the truthness is not a truth value.
01:41:13 <moony> myname, we all know NOTHING can compute the truthness of a logic paradox :P
01:41:33 <myname> moony: welcome to the halting problem
01:41:34 <rdococ> too bad we can't make our own logic system up that can give paradoxes one simple answer---OH WAIT WE CAN
01:41:47 <moony> rdococ, dont take this too far >_>
01:41:55 <rdococ> let's compact this sentence into one program f = !f.
01:42:09 <moony> but hey, i welcome a esoteric logic system ^_^
01:42:13 <myname> but to repeat: have a look at twoducks
01:42:15 <rdococ> if f was true then it would be false, and if it was false it would be true
01:42:28 <moony> rdococ, look at twoducks, as myname said
01:42:31 <rdococ> the conclusion I could come to is that f is both truthful and false
01:44:43 <myname> in common boolean logic, this cannot be
01:44:46 <rdococ> if f is true then f is false and if f is false then f is true
01:45:22 <rdococ> thus, all we would need is to remove the mutually exclusivity of true and false.
01:45:31 <myname> depending on your basic ruleset you can even prove that a and not a has to be false
01:45:46 <myname> this would break almost anything
01:46:18 <rdococ> so that's not what I'm gonna go for.
01:46:50 <rdococ> Actually, why would it break everything?
01:47:10 <rdococ> being both true and false is an undesirable condition but forced when f = !f.
01:47:27 <rdococ> Actually no, I have an idea.
01:47:37 <myname> how would you know in any given formula if it is forced or not
01:47:52 <rdococ> a new truth value - I will call it parth - is equal to its inverse.
01:48:00 <myname> also, it would make NP trivial to solve
01:48:22 <myname> since now every formula is satisfiable
01:48:39 <rdococ> myname: would this problem occur with parth too?
01:48:41 <moony> rdococ, sounds.... fuzzy
01:48:50 <rdococ> ikr was just about to say that
01:49:00 <rdococ> anyway, f = !f = parth.
01:49:10 <moony> myname, would that allow me to get rdococ's mom's phonenumber?
01:49:12 <myname> rdococ: what is true and parth?
01:49:34 <rdococ> myname: parth. imagine multiplication: 1 * 0.5 = 0.5
01:49:40 <myname> moony: if it's somewhere in the cloud
01:49:48 <rdococ> nothing esoteric about it
01:50:07 <myname> just not boolean anymore
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01:50:17 <rdococ> see... parth can't be !parth because x&!x should always be false
01:50:35 <myname> also, fuzzy logic is not that well defined
01:50:36 <rdococ> but x&x is always x... so is parth&!parth parth, !parth, or false?
01:50:57 <myname> what is true or parth? what is parth or parth?
01:51:36 <rdococ> 100% or 50% -> 100%. 50% or 50% -> different values depending on the context?
01:51:47 <rdococ> imagine a quantum variable, yet to collapse, named q.
01:51:57 <rdococ> actually, let's make it a capital Q to show its worth.
01:52:27 <moony> rdococ: E = MQ^2 (jk)
01:52:36 <myname> logic that depends on context is not a logic i would want to use
01:52:59 <rdococ> now, Q and !Q are different, but they both have 50% probability - that's the issue with representing probabilities as mere percentages.
01:53:14 <rdococ> Q & !Q = false, but 50% * 50% = 25%.
01:53:49 <rdococ> each unrelated quantum influence will be notated with a capital letter.
01:54:05 <rdococ> so Q & W is 25% probable.
01:54:40 <moony> half-parth? (just a example of me not understanding due to my tiny brain)
01:55:16 <moony> rdococ, using ur ne logic i derived ur mom's phone number.
01:55:52 <myname> look, 4 quantum effects
01:56:06 <myname> just wait until they collapse tocthe right number
01:56:13 <moony> rdococ, 25% * 25% = more issues
01:56:17 <rdococ> they don't collapse while you're logicing
01:57:18 <rdococ> you see, myname, letters on a screen will not collapse into the answer.
01:57:32 <tswett> `loudly Merry Christmas!
01:57:45 <rdococ> honestly, why I brought up the word "quantum" I don't know.
01:57:47 <moony> it could go on forever rdococ
01:58:26 <moony> 1/2,???,??? iminent
01:58:28 <rdococ> the point is, have multiple unrelated probabilistic variables which interact differently with themselves and their inverses than eachother.
01:59:05 <rdococ> e.g. if Q and W are 1/2 probable, Q & Q = Q, but Q & W = a 1/4 probable value.
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02:00:07 <rdococ> or am I being succeeded?
02:00:23 <moony> it makes sense rdococ
02:01:21 <moony> that is, for someone who is stil learning math and doesnt know too much lol
02:01:37 <rdococ> this is boolean logic, not maths
02:02:10 <rdococ> though I realize it was NOTHING to do with quantum mechanics.
02:02:38 <moony> rdococ, the 'derived your mom's phone number' thing was a XKCD joke >_>
02:03:35 <rdococ> it's 4 probability values multiplied together. also known as 0.5^4.
02:04:13 <myname> what you just described is independency of random variables
02:04:28 <rdococ> well, this already had to be done hadn't it
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02:05:40 <rdococ> at the end of the day, if f = !f and f & !f = 0, then f & f = 0. but f =/= 0, it's a different value that fits the requirement f&f=0.
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02:14:20 <rdococ> so the idea is that true is a 100% probability T and !T=F.
02:24:50 <\oren\> Helblinde - The Story of Mob
02:26:01 <rdococ> At its highest, x&y can be min(x,y) - as is the case with x&x. At its lowest, the two can cancel out - x&!x.
02:26:23 <\oren\> http://i.imgur.com/INBZ1VG.gifv
02:27:02 <rdococ> Mario = a douche, scientifically confirmed
02:29:17 <myname> there is a mario maker level where yoshi gets his revenge
02:29:32 <myname> from within a clown car
02:41:18 <tswett> Write a computer program that determines whether or not Queen Elizabeth II has died.
02:42:57 <\oren\> simple, scan wikipedia every 10 minutes
02:43:33 <tswett> Yeah, there are probably a ton of places you can parse it out of Wikipedia.
02:44:38 <\oren\> and maybe you can from historical data predict which would be updated first
02:46:03 <tswett> Bring up the Queen's Wikipedia page. That information will be in a dozen places.
02:46:46 <tswett> There's a bit that says "born 21 April 1926". See if that gets updated to include a second date.
02:47:01 <tswett> Look at any of the templates that have a parameter for date of death or end of reign.
02:49:39 <tswett> Another idea I had was to look for a spike in the Twitter hashtag #kingcharles.
02:50:04 <oerjan> check for the {{recent death}} template
02:51:28 <rdococ> connect a nanomachine to her
02:52:32 <\oren\> Max Coveri - Running In The Nieties (Vaporwave Edit)
02:54:57 <\oren\> why are so many of the youtubers I subscribe to german for some reason
02:55:26 <hppavilion[0]> \oren\: Assassinate her and just set queen_is_dead = True
02:56:01 <tswett> Shush, I don't want the coppers coming after me.
02:56:31 <\oren\> yeah it's certainly more germans than any other nation
02:57:29 <hppavilion[0]> tswett: But what if we change the monarchial terms at the last minute and there's a spike in #czarles?
02:58:47 <moony> im trying to play Dwarf Fortress pacifistly. (defense only). its failing miserably
02:58:58 <moony> *sillyness ensues*
02:59:51 <hppavilion[0]> tswett: You could instead check if Australia has become a republic
02:59:56 <\oren\> moony: just flood the entire world with magma
03:00:16 <tswett> And how do you check if Australia has become a republic?
03:04:41 <\oren\> Ooh! Norwegian has a word "romjul" for the period between Khrisumas and nyu years
03:05:46 <\oren\> why does english have so many words but lack useful ones
03:06:47 <rdococ> we need to make a better english
03:08:48 <\oren\> nah let's jsut steal it from norwegian: roomyule.
03:11:33 <\oren\> I'm going to start referring to it as roomyule and hope it cates on
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03:13:16 <IceFly> we call it "mellandagar", lit. "betweendays"
03:13:16 <IceFly> because it's the days between christmas and new years', you see
03:13:17 <\oren\> that sounds more englishy
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03:15:46 <oerjan> ♫ en skulle vøri fire år i romjul'n ... ♫
03:15:51 <IceFly> and the mellandagar are known for the mellandagsrea
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03:32:51 <moony> \oren\, im making a were/underworldfort
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07:47:10 <zzo38> Yesterday I played the Dungeons&Dragons game. I was trying to steal someone's amulet (I was impersonating my clone and managed to convince someone to tell me about it), and tried to secretly open my pocket containing marbles so that they would all fall off, but he managed to notice it.
07:48:18 <zzo38> I think that what I should do is to attach a string to back of my cloak that way the pocket can be undone from the back to make it more difficult to notice. How well you think it should help?
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08:57:52 <izabera> because you sold your soul and nothing surprises you anymore
08:59:18 <shachaf> I assume it's not zzo38 but e.g. Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe who has a clone.
09:11:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Tiny]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50601&oldid=20014 * Ron.hudson * (-36) Cleanup spelling some and change my email address.
09:46:57 <zzo38> Actually it is the other character
09:47:19 <zzo38> But yes you have a right idea
09:48:32 <HackEgo> Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe? ¯\(°_o)/¯
09:59:39 <\oren\> Ooh, I think I like this mod.
10:03:29 <\oren\> now you can have the girls from Girls Und Panzer instead of boring old hitler stalin and chuchill
10:13:42 <zzo38> shachaf: I do not know what to write either
10:23:56 <\oren\> http://ctrlv.in/912870
10:27:53 <zzo38> r5k1/1bqp2pp/1p2p1r1/3P1p2/2P5/1Q1N3n/P4PPP/R1R2B1K Black to move.
10:32:30 <zzo38> This was from a Soviet Championship, but what would you think of this? I thought of Qc5 but I am not very good at it so I don't know.
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12:24:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tiny]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50602&oldid=50486 * Ron.hudson * (+33) /* Notes */
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12:46:06 <hppavilion[0]> I'm watching <https://youtu.be/JRZgW1YjCKk?list=PLpGHT1n4-mAvcXwzOIz3dHnGZaQP1LEib>
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12:49:26 <Taneb> hppavilion[0], how're you finding it?
12:49:52 <hppavilion[0]> Taneb: I'm about 2 minutes into the first video because I keep getting other links, but I'm trying to watch :P
12:50:07 <hppavilion[0]> (I've started before, but it was a while ago and I'm taking a running start with my physics in mind)
12:51:10 <hppavilion[0]> Leonard Susskind kind of sounds like Bernie Sanders
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15:46:47 <int-e> And GG has a shadow mystery lady... looks a bit two-dimensional though.
15:47:45 <HackEgo> adjective:Adjectives are words frequently found attached to chickens. \ chicken:chicken is boily af \ dinosaur:Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers. \ glass:I can eat glass and it doesn't hurt me. -- http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/05/new-diet.html \ Binary file reflection matches \ things boily likes:Fire is good
15:49:39 <boily> I seem to have imprinted a few chickens here and there upon the Wisdom...
15:53:09 <izabera> comment this http://ideone.com/SaeMMS
15:55:39 <boily> that's C++ with templates. I never learned that, so I can't comment. I commen't.
15:56:34 <boily> Joyeux Noël et Bonne Aberannée!
16:17:23 <int-e> so, apparently, C++ has grown compile-time evaluation (constexpr) and postfix operators.
16:18:36 <int-e> but seriously, T operator ""_foo(T...)?
16:19:46 <int-e> In any case I think I'd rather use HLists.
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16:31:15 <HackEgo> banach-tarski//"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
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16:46:43 <Taneb> Taneb> LordAro, how does http://ideone.com/SaeMMS make you feel
16:46:43 <Taneb> <LordAro> Taneb: aroused
16:46:43 <Taneb> <LordAro> wait what
16:47:47 <Taneb> (I showed it to my C++ friend)
16:48:02 <boily> C++ developers are a weird bunch.
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17:44:17 <boily> rdhellococ. careful with the plusplusing, this may invoke Lambdabotic Karma.
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18:36:31 <rdococ> what about a game scripting language which treats its programs as a mathematical game? (in mathematical game theory, not the ducky kind)
18:39:03 <rdococ> why did I pick "octagonfly" in the past as my username here? it sounds ridiculous
18:41:33 <boily> you aren't embracing the Spirit of the Chicken. your soul isn't in Harmony. take a deep breathe, relax, put a Holy Chicken on your Head. Reflect the Universe with your Own Mind.
18:48:35 * boily echoes an æthereal pong across the Galaxy
18:52:53 * rdococ takes in a deep breath
18:53:02 * rdococ takes the holy chicken
18:53:51 <rdococ> I will now create an esoteric religion
18:54:06 <rdococ> everyone believes in the Holy Soil of the planet of Solesioanwwoejfei.
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20:21:12 <zzo38> I think that one of the problems with HTTP is lack of a standard directory listing format. So I can suggested to use a list of key/value pairs for each directory entry, with blank lines in between each entry. I can then to also add a SET method and HISTORY method; I would expect these are then sufficient.
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20:22:09 <zzo38> Do you think it is good?
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20:34:54 <boily> hezzo38. it is good.
20:43:33 <zzo38> Also a few new kind of headers, such as File-Mode and Name and Description.
20:43:47 <zzo38> (Name and Description headers are probably to be used only in directory entries.)
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20:55:43 <zzo38> O, and I missed one, which can be Last-Change which corresponds to the last status change time in UNIX fstat. Also, there are some other HTTP headers which may be useful in directory listings too such as: Accept-Ranges, Allow, Content-Language, Content-Length, Content-Location, Content-MD5, Content-Type, Last-Modified, Link, Location (for when the directory entry is a link), Vary.
20:57:37 <zzo38> And also WWW-Authenticate
21:01:21 <zzo38> Also would need to define a new MIME type for directory listings. This means that the client can request such a directory listing format by sending a suitable Accept header.
21:22:18 <zzo38> In this Dungeons&Dragons game we can be gaining the element of surprise over someone who were trying to gain the element of surprise over us. What is that called when such thing is happening?
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21:24:55 <oerjan> r.i.p. alexandrov ensemble
21:26:11 <oerjan> i only really learned about them this year, when learning two russian songs. their youtube versions were the best i found.
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21:36:49 <Zarutian> zzo38: a surprising oneupmanship?
21:37:18 <zzo38> Zarutian: Maybe it is
21:42:12 <rdococ> reverse variable assignment
21:42:48 <rdococ> x*2+1 = 3 would make x = 1 for example
21:43:09 <zzo38> METAFONT can do that.
21:43:34 <zzo38> (Although in METAFONT, if you write that when x is already set to a different value, it is an error.)
21:43:37 <rdococ> x^2 = 2 would make x = sqrt(2) or x = -sqrt(2)
21:44:20 <rdococ> but you can't do it the other way eg. x = y^2 is not allowed, but sqrt(x) = y is
21:45:25 <zzo38> In METAFONT you can for example write x=y+1 and then whichever of x or y isn't set will be set so that x=y+1.
21:45:30 <myname> why not imply i 0 everywhere
21:45:44 <myname> so x*2-2 would be an assignment
21:46:02 <zzo38> That is also the kind of ideas yes
21:46:45 <myname> in your example, sqrt(x) - y would be the same assignment as x - y^2
21:46:53 <zzo38> Making zero means true, nonzero meaning false, and then the program that is executed is to be made true, and then if it isn't true it is error or may be backtracked or caught by the exception or something
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21:56:16 <zzo38> To write x/y-1 to specify being equal and nonzero.
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22:03:20 <boily> moony-2017editio: we aren't twothousandseventeening yet hth
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22:04:56 <\oren\> Ooh, I want a mod that adds anime decals to all me kerbal rockets
22:05:55 <Zarutian> what would you pay for a mod where all the kerbals, not in flight, wore StarTrek Next Generation uniforms?
22:11:05 <HackEgo> 447) <monqy> the classic "souls have mass" hypothesis \ 853) <kmc> i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news <Bike> but at what cost? your very soul, kmc!
22:14:39 <rdococ> what about a standalone else operator
22:14:43 <rdococ> s/operator/conditional
22:16:48 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> And GG has a shadow mystery lady... looks a bit two-dimensional though. <-- given what gil's said about her, my obvious guess is that it's zola. but we'll see.
22:18:21 <oerjan> @tell int-e with the ability to copy minds, it could be any_body_, of course.
22:19:35 <oerjan> rdococ: well perl has unless and maybe haskell too.
22:19:40 <lambdabot> Applicative f => Bool -> f () -> f ()
22:20:23 <rdococ> unless (bool) {code} = if (not bool) {code}
22:20:26 <zzo38> You can also define unless in Forth easily enough
22:21:00 <rdococ> I also had the idea of an "either" function eg. "x == either a or b" would be true if x == a or x == b
22:21:05 <zzo38> Some implementations may accept the following code: : UNLESS` 0=` IF` ; Others may use a bit more complicated way
22:21:33 <rdococ> this "either" class would be equal to something if any of its values were equal to it
22:22:22 <rdococ> would it break anything?
22:22:33 <rdococ> not if it's in its own syntax, eg "either 2 3"...
22:22:44 * oerjan uses leibniz rotating in his grave to power the swatting of rdococ -----###
22:23:07 <oerjan> @google leibniz equality
22:23:09 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_(mathematics)
22:24:22 <rdococ> that is, if x is contained in the set {a, b}
22:24:48 <myname> why not use it like that?
22:24:52 <rdococ> we can simply check if set[x] = true if you implement it well, and not like a list
22:25:31 <oerjan> sure, but don't call it ==
22:26:22 <myname> or, you know, x `elem` [a, b]
22:28:39 <\oren\> I have #define unless(x) if(!(x))
22:29:20 <Zarutian> what about: #define regardless(x) if(true)
22:29:25 <rdococ> but the either construct is LITERALLY equal to both a and b
22:30:36 <rdococ> regardless sounds like if you wanted to fit a snippet of code inside an if conditional that would be executed regardless of the value of the if
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22:32:01 <izabera> otherwise stuff with visible effects wouldn't be executed, like regardless(puts("hello world"))
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22:35:23 <rdococ> regardless, it sounds ridiculous
22:35:32 <rdococ> you might as well just do puts("hello world")
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22:45:10 <\oren\> interestng piece of history I'm wathcing on the tv right now
22:45:49 <\oren\> apparently there used to be restaurants you drove your car into and had waitressed on roller skates serve you food
22:48:39 <\oren\> the 1950's were a very different world
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23:05:56 <Gregor> Drive-ins still exist in some places.
23:12:37 <zzo38> A kind of drive-in is still possible at White Spot
23:12:41 <Gregor> What \oren\ just described is a drive-in.
23:12:47 <Gregor> As opposed to a drive-through.
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23:43:05 <rdococ> what's cool is that it's easy to use Haskell to create my "either" construct
23:43:14 <rdococ> tbh though I think it should just be an easy shorthand
23:43:36 <rdococ> I also had the idea of an "or" function that would ask the user
23:43:59 <myname> rdococ: like, using elem?
23:44:39 <rdococ> <String> or <String> = ask the user. <Bool> or <Bool> = logical OR. <X> or <Y> = my EITHER construct.
23:47:40 <zzo38> I thought to make Magic: the Gathering cards that is two instants that can meld into an Aura. The text for the unmelded side might be something like this: Choose one-- ;; - [doing something] ;; - Meld ~ with target spell you own named [name]
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00:42:35 <rdococ> and now I must make another terrible esolang idea!
00:43:02 <rdococ> a language where something or other!
00:44:41 <rdococ> a language which starts out with only a string literal
00:44:52 <rdococ> and then you must define booleans and stuff from it
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00:47:36 <moony> lol this was a bad idea
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00:54:14 <rdococ> we need a who conditional now
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00:54:25 <rdococ> whoever? whatsoever? whatever
00:56:17 <moony> always let x = 3, never let x != 3
00:56:25 <moony> constants without the keyword
00:56:50 <rdococ> what about a language where every command is a banana
00:57:21 <moony> sounds like a joke language lol
00:57:25 <lambdabot> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Banana_Scheme
00:58:14 <oerjan> also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCkerYMffMo
00:58:21 <myname> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Cheese
00:59:40 <HackEgo> flagpole//A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top.
00:59:42 <shachaf> can you take that topic elsewhere please
00:59:44 <HackEgo> lkoen//LKoen vivait en haut de la Tour Eiffel, mais il s'est préfixé d'un L et s'est envolé.
00:59:46 <HackEgo> rtf//RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures.
00:59:48 <HackEgo> rhubarb//Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb.
00:59:48 <HackEgo> ent//Ents are very useful creatures for the puzzle of writing town names in Hungary as the catenation of six or more Hungarian words. Bal-a-s-s-a-gyarmat Bal-a-ton-{s-zár-szó,{rend,szem}-e-s} Egy-ház-a-s-holló-s Fel-s-ősz-ent-már-ton Jász-ár-ok-száll-á-s Ki-s-kun-{fél-egy-ház-a,hal-a-s} Rá-basz-ent-mik-ló-s Vér-te-s-sző-lő-s.
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01:01:14 <rdococ> but I'm smiling so I'm funny to someone
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01:02:00 <shachaf> no, you're at best annoying
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01:02:42 <rdococ> (you know I'm just joking around, right?)
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01:03:21 <shachaf> I don't know what you're joking around about, but whatever it is, you aren't very good at it.
01:04:50 <\oren\> argh why is my grampa so inhumanly good at card games
01:05:08 <shachaf> perhaps because he is not human
01:05:39 <\oren\> part of his ancestry is, indeed, unknown
01:06:48 <zzo38> At what card game?
01:09:42 <\oren\> a game apparently not playd outside northern canada
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01:11:58 <rdococ> do you prefer !=, ~=, <> or some other syntax for inequality
01:13:43 <zzo38> I have used both != and <> for different program language. I think for most kinds, that != will be good. Also a few using /=
01:14:18 <\oren\> damn it it dodn't line up
01:15:02 <rdococ> I'd make my language flexible if I were making it practical, and allow all four.
01:16:12 <rdococ> feels like lua but even more wordose
01:16:21 <\oren\> would work well in a BASIC type language
01:16:41 <rdococ> if x is 3 then set x to 5 end
01:17:01 <rdococ> if x is less than 5 then set x to 6 end
01:17:19 <rdococ> what if "less than 5" was a number-like construct like "5" and "3" are?
01:18:04 <\oren\> in perl, lt, gt, eq and neq are the string-comparison operators
01:18:24 <\oren\> while > < == != compare numberly
01:18:48 <rdococ> does it even make sense to compare strings?
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01:27:02 <\oren\> rdococ: asciibetical order
01:28:59 <zzo38> It does make sense to compare strings. Usually by the ASCII codes, although with SQL it is also possible to define other collations too.
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02:15:34 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc9LwNQr0JY
02:21:10 <HackEgo> danddreclist 85: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
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02:51:11 <HackEgo> ethanol//Ethanol is a Group 1 carcinogenic substance since 1988.
02:54:20 <zzo38> How difficult would it be to make a television set that has a mode to improve the picture quality of a RF Famicom?
02:55:33 <shachaf> zzo38: Improve by making the picture 3D?
02:55:54 <shachaf> Did you see it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxjbXAqTPg
02:56:05 <zzo38> I don't mean to make 3D
02:56:25 <zzo38> I mean to decode it into palette indices and then reencode the picture.
02:56:39 <shachaf> There's also a paper at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/zelda/
02:57:58 <zzo38> I don't mean 3D or anything else like that, but to get rid of the bad quality induced by the RF modulator and demodulator and the NTSC decoder.
03:12:49 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc9LwNQr0JY
03:24:29 * Zarutian hands zzo38 an Nitendo multi connector with RGB RL out and possibly an SCART adapter to connect it to a telly.
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03:45:44 <shachaf> don't put the scart before the scow
03:46:57 <pikhq> I'd hate on SCART here, but the American alternative is "go fuck yourself".
03:50:39 <\oren\> hmm, I just thought of a crazy game idea
03:51:13 <\oren\> modern kids don't get to use chemistry sets (I was the only person my age who ever had one)
03:51:48 <\oren\> so why not make a "virtual chemistry set" that uses data on real chemicals including reaction rates etc
03:52:46 <Zarutian> pikhq: if only they had bloody specified that any newer tellys had L protrusions above and below SCART ports so one could use a rubber band to keep the damn things connected then I would have been rather less irritated
03:53:52 <Zarutian> because invariably it would 'just fall out a bit' because someone was 'dedusting'
03:54:40 <\oren\> Zarutian: when I was in france they used tape
03:54:56 <\oren\> it still fell out though
03:55:26 <\oren\> (oh, and by 'hotel' i mean a family run bed and breakfast type thing)
03:58:24 <Zarutian> and why didnt they specify that the two data lines were just I2C? (Though not directly connected to the devices internal I2C buses)
03:58:41 <Zarutian> that is what HDMI at least gets right.
03:59:41 <\oren\> HDMI is annoying because it doesn't have screwholes
04:00:10 <pikhq> Most consumer TV connectors don't, though.
04:01:07 * boily sthwacks shachaf. 0.74 FP.
04:01:09 <pikhq> The only screwon connector I know of in that space is the F connector.
04:04:57 <Zarutian> I found it rather neat that an brand of VCRs had a little TeleText generation module for manual and certain On Screen Menu stuff. The VCR didnt have any tuner though. (Relied on the pass through from the telly)
04:05:07 <Sgeo> Frog Fractions 2 has been revealed
04:08:31 <zzo38> Does it control the external tuner so that it can change the channel for a programmed recording?
04:10:10 <zzo38> I tried to invent the way to use MIDI that can be used for this and other purposes.
04:10:53 <pikhq> Bit of an unusual choice, but MIDI certainly is up to the task.
04:11:14 <Zarutian> zzo38: nope, SCART didnt allow for that (but it should have if the two data lines actually had any specified protocol for deck control)
04:12:35 <pikhq> Um, can't you do exactly that with AV.link on SCART?
04:12:52 <pikhq> ... which only helps you, granted, if the deck and the TV actualy have AV.link.
04:14:31 <zzo38> My specification for TVMIDI requires that the external tuner support MIDI CCs 0, 32, and 64 (although CC 0 is unneeded if there are no channel numbers higher than 127), and that it can at least parse all other MIDI messages even if it ignores them. Other commands are defined, but implementation is optional.
04:16:27 <zzo38> (Controls 0 and 32 change the channel, while control 64 is OSD suppress; setting it to 127 ensures that the video output displays only the TV show and no menus or anything else.)
04:18:05 <zzo38> I think it is good at least, do you think?
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06:33:05 <rdococ> hppavilion[1] I need isnpiration
06:33:37 <rdococ> I want to create this kind of language.
06:33:41 <rdococ> easier and no IPA - yay
06:34:41 <rdococ> if I were a terrible esolanger, how would I create a good language?
06:35:22 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], over here
06:35:51 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], I said here
06:43:23 <rdococ> you're talking in #conlang but not here :/
06:43:54 <rdococ> I'm tired and I get weird when I'm tired
06:44:03 <rdococ> It's not a complete lie
06:49:58 <rdococ> I'm sorry... again... for being a nuisance
06:59:06 <rdococ> what about a non-standard number type
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07:00:27 <zzo38> What kind of non-standard number type?
07:00:39 <rdococ> the idea just popped into my head
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08:27:04 <HackEgo> |a+b@| = { √(a²-b²) if a²-b² ≥ 0 ; i√(a²-b²) if a²-b² < 0 }
08:27:35 <zgrep> I think we found a contradiction somewhere along the line with this definition. Or maybe the if statement was to combat the definition.
08:27:48 <zgrep> Err, the contradiction.
08:28:40 * zgrep . o O ( Just pick a type of number that you don't find most places, and it's bound to be fairly non- standard. )
08:31:33 * zgrep . o O ( Like numbers that can be divided by 18603444599. Those aren't common. )
09:06:13 <rdococ> idk why the if conditional is there...
09:06:38 <rdococ> I mean I get the logic it should be √(a²-b²), but why i√(a²-b²) if a²-b² < 0?
10:01:26 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], do you know why the if conditional above is there?
10:02:25 <rdococ> I know, but why does it have to be real?
10:02:51 <rdococ> so if I'm fine with |@| = i then I can remove the if conditional lol
10:03:11 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Since if a²-b² < 0, then i√(a²-b²) = i√|a²-b²|i = -√|a²-b²|
10:03:39 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I think it just equates to swapping the positions of a and b?
10:03:52 <rdococ> and negating it, that's what I thought too
10:04:09 <rdococ> isqrt(a^2 - b^2) = -sqrt(b^2 - a^2)?
10:41:52 * zgrep looks at the definition and thinks about it
10:42:06 <zgrep> (it was |@| = @ at some point, but that was proven to be not a thing that happens, right?)
11:00:14 <zgrep> rdococ: Why negating it?
11:10:09 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: I don't think I stuck with $; I think I chose a greek letter at some point
11:10:18 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
11:11:57 <zgrep> I see. Could just use cis(ψ) :P
11:12:17 <zgrep> Though I guess it's not any characters shorter, is it.
11:12:53 <hppavilion[1]> trans(for p in `ls -R1d ./**/* | grep "class"`; do pnf=`(sed "s/\.class/.java/" <<< $p)| sed "s,^\./,,"`; pn="$PWD/disasm/$pnf"; install -D /dev/null $pn; javap -c "$p" > $pn; done)
11:15:02 <rdococ> |ψ| = i wasn't that my idea?
11:15:16 <rdococ> both of us or something
11:15:46 <rdococ> zgrep: sqrt(b^2 - a^2) for b>a would mean a positive number
11:18:54 <rdococ> what does crypto mean?
11:19:25 <rdococ> must be my double enemy then
11:19:37 <zgrep> <rdococ> zgrep: sqrt(b^2 - a^2) for b>a would mean a positive number <-- Yes?
11:20:31 <rdococ> so sqrt(1-0) as swapping a and b alone would do = 1
11:21:10 <zgrep> Maybe I shouldn't try thinking at 4-6 am.
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11:21:26 <rdococ> I wonder what 2^@ would be.
11:21:56 <zgrep> Wait... didn't we go down this road at some point?
11:22:09 <rdococ> probably my cryptomnesia
11:22:15 <zgrep> I vaguely remember something to do with trying to extend hyperoperators.
11:22:36 <zgrep> hyperoperation? Hyperwhatevertheyrecalled.
11:23:04 -!- IceFly has changed nick to FireFly.
11:23:06 <rdococ> 2^@ = x -> log_2(x) = @, right?
11:23:16 <zgrep> FireFly: You're no longer cold, I see.
11:23:23 <rdococ> so all we need is ln(a+b@), or log for any base
11:23:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has changed nick to EarthFly.
11:23:39 <FireFly> zgrep: are you saying I'm hot?
11:23:59 <EarthFly> FireFly, zgrep: get a room you n ≥ 2
11:24:28 <zgrep> FireFly: I'm saying your on fire.
11:24:40 <zgrep> Technically... we're in a room.
11:24:58 <EarthFly> rdococ: You'll want to define with e, not 2
11:25:26 <zgrep> EarthFly: What would the definition for $ be, then...
11:25:29 <zgrep> (out of curiosity)
11:25:29 <myname> people really do make your/you're mistakes, i am surprised
11:25:58 <EarthFly> rdococ: e^θ@ = cosa(θ)+sina(θ)@
11:26:01 * zgrep . o O ( Your you're own person. )
11:26:18 <EarthFly> rdococ: I don't know, it was bullshit madeupness
11:26:33 -!- EarthFly has changed nick to hppavilion1.
11:26:55 <hppavilion1> rdococ: One of the uses of complex numbers are representing rotations in 2D space
11:27:01 <myname> i only know cosa nostra
11:27:44 <rdococ> what would @ be used for?
11:28:09 <hppavilion1> rdococ: A point (x, y) rotated about the origin by θ is (x', y') where x'+b'i = (sin(θ)+i·cos(θ))(x+bi)
11:28:24 <izabera> myname: first rule of cosa nostra is don't talk about cosa nostra
11:28:41 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Complex numbers do nice rotations. I've been trying to figure out what split-complex numbers transform like
11:28:52 <myname> izabera: i read too much snow crash
11:29:18 <hppavilion1> rdococ: Split-complex numbers are a+bj, where j^2 = 1, j ≠ 1, j ≠ -1
11:29:53 <hppavilion1> rdococ: They're to hyperbolæ the same way complexes are to circles
11:30:09 <rdococ> Oh, so hyperbolic sine/cosine?
11:30:33 <rdococ> Only hyperbolic cosine?
11:31:37 <rdococ> You know what it reminds me of?
11:32:19 <rdococ> Minkowski space to be specific.
11:32:48 <rdococ> to me, 1 and j rotate like x and t rotate.
11:32:55 <rdococ> and 1 and i rotate like x and y would.
11:33:48 <rdococ> what would you call it
11:35:26 <rdococ> would that mean |j| = i?
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11:36:51 <rdococ> I think I'm talking about Lorentz boosts
11:38:59 <rdococ> j is to hyperbolae as i is to circle, yes? now, in Minkowski space, distance is governed by sqrt(x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - t^2), yes?
11:39:46 <rdococ> Now, if we take that idea of - t^2 and apply it to the complex numbers, we get sqrt(r^2 + i^2 - t^2).
11:40:44 <rdococ> Basically, what I'm saying is that the distance formula is sqrt(x^2 - yj^2), and that |j| = sqrt(-1) = i.
11:41:09 <rdococ> Is any of this... making sense?
11:41:36 <rdococ> or have you figured this out already?
11:48:46 <rdococ> Oh, and by the way... e^x = cosh x + sinh x
11:48:51 <rdococ> nvm, you know that alreadu
11:48:57 <rdococ> I'm embarassing myself
11:58:43 <myname> "the association for computational heresy" i like
12:00:23 <rdococ> told you I was embarrassing myself
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12:10:13 <zgrep> Not sure why I made this. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WOSlVQCN/%40.mov
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14:50:16 <HackEgo> jonathan hoag//Hoag is an art critic.
15:05:14 <Sgeo> I assume people in here know of Pokemon Showdown?
15:05:28 <Sgeo> How approachable is it for someone who hasn't played a real Pokemon game?
15:05:36 <Sgeo> (I have played the card game online)
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15:18:24 <HackEgo> [U+00F1 LATIN SMALL LETTER N WITH TILDE]
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19:48:31 <zzo38> On some television shows I have watched I noticed that the captions are slightly different than what they say, such as "chocolate" instead of "candy" for example. Both ways make sense but they are different. Do you know why they differ?
19:52:57 <int-e> a possible reason is that they copy the script, rather than listening to the actors
19:53:24 <zzo38> I did think of that. But why didn't the actors say what is written on the script then?
19:53:44 <zzo38> The shows I noticed this for were not in colour.
19:53:56 <int-e> 'I think it would flow better if I said "candy" instead of "chocolate"'
19:54:21 <int-e> In a scene with several takes... and finally the director picks the one they think fits best
19:54:57 <int-e> But it's just one possibility of many anyway, though perhaps the most plausible.
19:55:45 <int-e> Also possible, you listen to a whole sentence before writing it down, and mix up synonyms. Or you base it on a translation of another set of captions. Or you actually abridge the text to fit on screen.
19:56:04 -!- hppavilion1 has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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20:02:49 <zzo38> Is there a device that can receive a picture from IEEE 1394 and captions from composite and then to output the combined signal as a composite video out?
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20:57:24 <zzo38> Some of the rules of Magic: the Gathering I think I would have written differently.
20:57:25 <zzo38> I would have written the rule for flip a coin differently. I would have made "flip a coin" to be a keyword action meaning "choose heads or tails at random". But some effects can have the player win/lose the flip and others don't, so this can complicate it a bit; errata might fix it, but maybe there is a better way to fix it, but I don't know.
20:58:06 <zzo38> There are other examples too, in order to attempt to remove redundant stuff, to clarify some things, etc.
20:58:12 <zzo38> Do you have opinion of such thing?
20:59:36 <shachaf> What if a coin lands on its edge?
21:00:42 <zzo38> It is an invalid choice, so you must flip the coin again.
21:01:27 <zzo38> "Flip a coin" is meaning "choose heads or tails at random", so if you make the choice at random by flipping a coin and it lands on its edge, that choice is invalid therefore you must flip the coin again.
21:02:59 <shachaf> I mean, before your changes are applied.
21:03:57 <zzo38> It is unclear, but probably you would have to do the same thing anyways.
21:06:48 <shachaf> I think you should win the game.
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21:07:28 <zzo38> But the rules do not say that you will win the game in such case.
21:08:32 <shachaf> But they don't say that you don't, either.
21:09:11 <zzo38> That is true, but I think it is irrelevant.
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21:14:58 <shachaf> Do the rules say that it's irrelevant?
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21:17:33 <hppavilion1> `le/rn Belgium/The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
21:17:36 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
21:17:41 <hppavilion1> `le//rn Belgium/The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
21:17:42 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
21:17:58 <hppavilion1> `le/rn Belgium//The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
21:18:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'belgium': The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
21:19:13 <shachaf> `le/rn C++ comments/C++ single-line comments use "//"; multi-line comments use "/*" "*/"
21:19:48 <zzo38> Are you going to confuse you?
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21:33:04 <HackEgo> changeset: 10035:70889ab71789 \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Tue Dec 27 21:17:58 2016 +0000 \ summary: <hppavilion1> le/rn Belgium//The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
21:54:22 <hppavilion1> Euclidean Distance is a metric in en–space
21:56:51 <\oren\> c++ multi line comments can also use #if 0
21:58:46 <zzo38> I commonly use #if 0 for disabling a block of code or for adding the compilation script
21:58:59 <zzo38> Rather than for comments
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23:01:18 <zgrep> `? C++ comments/C++ single-line comments use "
23:01:27 <HackEgo> C++ comments/C++ single-line comments use "? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:02:18 <myname> who needs a wisdom.for that?
23:03:41 <HackEgo> 'c++ comments'? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:03:52 * zgrep is assuming HackEgo didn't learn that in any way, shape, or form because of the lack of reply
23:05:23 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> Is the ring the Gaussian Integers form prime? <-- yes, obviously hth
23:07:56 <HackEgo> bin/` \ bin/̊ \ bin/ \ bin/! \ bin/? \ bin/¿ \ bin/' \ bin/" \ bin/( \ bin/@ \ bin/* \ bin/؟ \ bin/ \ bin/ \ bin/1 \ bin/2 \ bin/5 \ bin/f \ bin/h \ bin/n \ bin/w
23:07:58 -!- boily has joined.
23:08:32 <HackEgo> ` ̊ ! ? ¿ ' " ( @ * ؟ 1 2 5 f h n w
23:09:04 <oerjan> i'm honestly not sure why \oren\'s line worked.
23:09:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F
23:09:47 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: ?=: command not found
23:10:13 <HackEgo> ` ̊ ! ? ¿ ' " ( @ * ؟ 1 2 5 f h n w
23:10:19 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXy3SrBcWw
23:11:01 <oerjan> it worked because there aren't any single-char files in the cwd
23:11:21 <HackEgo> 0000000 # ! / b i n / b a s h \n t o p i \ 0000020 c = $ ( e c h o " $ 1 " | \ 0000040 l o w e r c a s e | s e d \ 0000060 " s / n o o \ + d l / n o o o d \ 0000100 l / ; s / * $ / / "
23:11:33 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnoooooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | r
23:13:38 <\oren\> `` echo nooooooodl | rnoooooooodl
23:13:40 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: rnoooooooodl: command not found
23:13:45 <\oren\> `` echo nooooooodl | rnooooooooodl
23:13:46 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: rnooooooooodl: command not found
23:13:56 <\oren\> `` echo nooooooodl | rno*dl
23:13:57 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: rno*dl: command not found
23:14:07 <oerjan> \oren\: tip: rnooooooooodl doesn't exist
23:14:16 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
23:14:28 <\oren\> `` echo nooooooodl | rnooodl
23:14:32 <\oren\> `` echo nooooooodl | rnooodl
23:14:38 <\oren\> `` echo nooooodl | rnooodl
23:14:49 <oerjan> \oren\: it only applies to three o's input
23:14:57 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
23:15:03 <\oren\> `` echo rnooodl | rnooodl
23:15:09 <\oren\> `` echo nooodl | rnooodl
23:15:19 <shachaf> `mkx bin/cat///bin/cat "$@" | rnooodl
23:15:49 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, why doesn't rnoooooodl work any any sequence of three os?
23:16:01 <shachaf> Kind of scow that it has to be surrounded by n and dl
23:16:18 <shachaf> I know people didn't like it when it was any character repeated three times. But three os?
23:17:50 <HackEgo> bin/cat//bin/cat: no such file in rev bd7f812be8ef
23:18:24 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooooodl
23:19:12 <shachaf> oerjan wants cats to be trustworthy
23:20:52 <oerjan> too much redundancy, especially if you change it to any three o's
23:22:14 <\oren\> oooh I found the original song
23:22:17 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gldhm5MI9ho
23:29:47 <\oren\> °ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°ᗝ°)(°ᗜ°)(°〇°)(°〇°)
23:30:01 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gxkt1FNL5s
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23:46:35 <\oren\> more new unicode characters are coming! PREPARE YOURSELF!
23:46:38 <\oren\> http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16381-n4778r-pdam1-2-charts.pdf
23:49:22 * oerjan pats /hackenv/share/UnicodeData.txt
23:56:17 <\oren\> in the Kana supplement block U+1B002-1B0FF
23:57:16 <shachaf> 2BEB ⯫ STAR WITH RIGHT HALF BLAC
23:57:29 <shachaf> according to the picture, the whole right is black
23:58:09 <shachaf> Astrological symbols for Eris and Sedna
23:58:13 <\oren\> the copyleft symbol is in too
23:59:01 <shachaf> "indicates a minor medial pause where the sense is complete but the meaning is not"
23:59:06 <shachaf> I'm going to be using that all the time.
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00:00:43 <zzo38> I think Unicode is overfull of stupid
00:01:29 <zzo38> FountainandFlame: What did you expect?
00:01:54 <\oren\> Well they also added new androgynous emoji for "ADULT" "CHILD" and "OLDER ADULT"
00:02:49 <\oren\> as well as "BEARDED PERSON" and "PERSON WITH HEADSCARF"....
00:03:13 <oerjan> . o O ( wouldn't a pause where the meaning is complete but the sense is not be more appropriate for our regulars )
00:04:13 <oerjan> FountainandFlame: someone brought up the newest unicode additions
00:04:22 <\oren\> http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16381-n4778r-pdam1-2-charts.pdf
00:04:47 <zgrep> Unicode is a mess, but it's the mess we all agree upon.
00:05:17 <zzo38> Link to the list of the new Unicode characters, I think.
00:05:23 <oerjan> `relcome FountainandFlame
00:05:35 <HackEgo> FountainandFlame: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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00:07:20 <FountainandFlame> So, this chat is dedicated to Unicode programmers for universal text?
00:07:38 <zzo38> FountainandFlame: No it isn't, but at least at this time such thing are sometimes discussed a bit
00:07:58 <zzo38> (We often to discuss many different kind of things and is not always on topic; see logs for details)
00:08:11 <FountainandFlame> Oh okay. Well, glad to stumble in here, I love good discussions
00:08:20 <zzo38> (And if you want to know the "proper" topics of discussions, to please see wiki.)
00:08:56 <\oren\> somtimes we talk about magic the gaherig
00:09:08 <\oren\> sometimes about theoretical mathematics too
00:09:15 <FountainandFlame> I assume there are at least a few who use this interface often?
00:09:17 <zzo38> Yes, there is that too
00:09:24 <zzo38> FountainandFlame: What interface?
00:09:40 <zzo38> What site do you mean?
00:09:49 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
00:09:50 <oerjan> this "site" is a worldwide network
00:10:12 <zzo38> It is IRC. You are using probably the Freenode web IRC client, although other people use their own IRC client
00:10:20 <zzo38> It is connect to the same network of IRC servers.
00:12:12 <int-e> you better take notes, there will be a quiz at the end
00:12:45 <oerjan> zzo38 even wrote his _own_ irc client, it's the kind of thing some people here would do :)
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00:13:46 <\oren\> I'm using irssi client
00:14:13 <\oren\> and I'm interested in unicode because I make my own font
00:14:31 <oerjan> i've sometimes used the web client when i cannot get to the server i run irssi on
00:14:44 <int-e> \oren\: how close are you to unicode-completeness?
00:15:33 <oerjan> . o O ( who's adding characters faste, \oren\ or the consortium )
00:16:13 <FountainandFlame> Yeah the PDF you sent me was pretty interesting. I originally studied ideograms which brought me to Hermetic Philosophy
00:17:17 * oerjan smells the other kind of esoteric
00:17:37 <zzo38> How much of the UTCE set is in your font so far?
00:19:32 <zzo38> Looking on Wikipedia about Hermetic Philosophy and about ideograms, I do not see much about what it has to do with?
00:19:44 <\oren\> there are 20524 characters supported
00:28:51 <zzo38> I think it is the joke
00:29:07 <boily> Æternal Anchovies!
00:30:40 <boily> yes, but not in these parts. we aren't terrible.
00:32:01 <boily> good returning! careful out there, it's icy and slippery!
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00:34:25 <lambdabot> CYQB 280000Z 25012KT 15SM SCT060 01/M04 A2967 RMK SC4 SLP054
00:56:41 <lambdabot> CYVR 280000Z 06005KT 360V090 20SM FEW025 FEW050 BKN120 04/02 A2997 RMK SC1SC1AC3 SLP151
01:05:01 <lambdabot> CYYZ 280005Z 28008KT 15SM -SHSN BKN020 OVC025 M01/M04 A2995 RMK SC5SC3 CVCTV CLD EMBD SLP152
01:05:06 <lambdabot> CYYB 280000Z 35009KT 5SM -SN OVC018 M05/M07 A2980 RMK SC8 SLP114
01:06:07 <\oren\> I'm a bit north of cyyb
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01:07:50 <boily> I think hppavilion[1] is the northernmost and westernmost esoterer.
01:12:38 <oerjan> boily: northernmost? *cough*
01:12:54 <boily> oh hm. eh. eeeeeh. >_>'...
01:13:17 <boily> hellørjan. didn't see you there.
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02:07:21 <\oren\> well do we have anyone who lives in east asia?
02:09:23 <lambdabot> Look up METAR weather data for given airport.
02:16:34 <boily> he\\oren\. we have lifthras1ir for that.
02:16:54 <boily> wellop1s1. what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
02:19:33 <pikhq> I live at 0° 0°, ±180°, and mass on the order of 1 megagram.
02:20:52 <pikhq> Yeah, as far as Alaska goes Anchorage is fairly far south.
02:21:08 <pikhq> Trondheim is definitely north of it, though not by *much*.
02:21:35 <oerjan> i can't think of anyone else here who's definitely north of me
02:21:55 <oerjan> but there may be people who haven't stated their whereabouts.
02:22:20 <pikhq> There aren't *that* many urban areas north of you, though, so you likely are the most northern.
02:22:42 <oerjan> unless there's a stealth norwegian or someone in murmansk
02:22:59 <shachaf> i,i an urban is what urjan will do if you're too disruptive
02:24:04 <pikhq> Oh, is Zarutian from Reykjavik?
02:24:18 <shachaf> Somewhere in Iceland at least.
02:24:22 <pikhq> Well, they have an Icelandic host, so that's quite likely.
02:24:28 * oerjan resigns the northernmost throne
02:24:44 <pikhq> There aren't that many people in Iceland *not* in Reykjavik, so...
02:24:54 <Zarutian> well, I live in an abutting muncipality called Kópavogur
02:25:08 <pikhq> (literally 2/3rds of the country is in the metro area of Reykjavik)
02:25:49 <Zarutian> the most populous street is Hraunbær
02:26:14 <pikhq> So, yes, you're the northernmost Esotericer.
02:26:15 <boily> I think oerjan still northerns more than Zarutian.
02:26:33 <pikhq> Is oerjan notably north of Trondheim?
02:26:55 <boily> oh, Trondheim, not Tromsø...
02:27:15 <pikhq> Because Reykjavik is about 75' north of Trondheim.
02:28:00 <shachaf> 75 feet is not very much hth
02:28:26 <pikhq> Nor is 75 minutes, really.
02:28:50 <lambdabot> LOWI 280220Z AUTO 28003KT 9999 FEW070 OVC110 M01/M05 Q1041
02:29:06 <lambdabot> KFLY 280215Z AUTO 27018G27KT 10SM CLR 08/M12 A3000 RMK AO2 T00761125
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02:32:21 <zgrep> Hm. Why is the esolangs wiki not written in an esolang...
02:34:46 <Sgeo> There are a lot of language-specific wikis written in the language they're about, aren't there
02:34:53 <Sgeo> Well, at least Tcl and Factor
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02:35:05 <alercah> zgrep: bootstrapping problem
02:35:16 <alercah> without esowiki, there are no esoteric languages
02:35:43 <zgrep> So, uh, bootstrap it in something not so esoteric?
02:35:55 <zgrep> But then migrate to something rather esoteric.
02:36:59 <Zarutian> timed out there, did I miss anything directed at me?
02:40:20 <int-e> Zarutian: You may have missed the topic, which mentions the (currently working!) logs.
02:40:56 <Zarutian> I always forgot to check which channels are publicly logged.
02:41:11 <Zarutian> specially in this age of deforrestation
03:04:18 <HackEgo> U+1D679 MATHEMATICAL MONOSPACE CAPITAL J \ UTF-8: f0 9d 99 b9 UTF-16BE: d835de79 Decimal: 𝙹 \ 𝙹 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <font> 004A \ \ U+1D67A MATHEMATICAL MONOSPACE CAPITAL K \ UTF-8: f0 9d 99 ba UTF-16BE: d835de7a Decimal: 𝙺 \ 𝙺 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \
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03:21:39 <boily> are those actually used in the real world?
03:24:29 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/u8tbl: line 1: 293 Segmentation fault u8tbl.exe $@
03:24:36 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/u8tbl: line 1: 293 Segmentation fault u8tbl.exe $@
03:25:17 <\oren\> Zarutian: you need two numbers
03:26:20 <boily> `u8tbl 0x0 0x1FFFF
03:27:29 <HackEgo> U+2E4E - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e2 b9 8e UTF-16BE: 2e4e Decimal: ⹎ \ ⹎ (⹎) \ Uppercase: U+2E4E \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned)
03:34:48 <HackEgo> U+FFF9 INTERLINEAR ANNOTATION ANCHOR \ UTF-8: ef bf b9 UTF-16BE: fff9 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+FFFA INTERLINEAR ANNOTATION SEPARATOR \ UTF-8: ef bf ba UTF-16BE: fffa Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cf (Other, Format) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+FFFB INTERLINEAR ANNOTATI
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03:45:02 <HackEgo> boxmodel:boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be. \ Binary file reflection matches
03:45:26 <HackEgo> 5667:2015-06-24 <coppr̈o> learn boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb\'s cage is going to be.
04:04:02 <HackEgo> Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the government to spy on Chinese people.
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04:23:52 <boily> Microsoft doesn't exist. it wasn't Tanebvented.
04:39:03 <\oren\> `le/rn apple/An apple is a sweet fruit grown on trees in temperate areas. Also an unimportant Californian rectangle factory.
04:39:04 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
04:39:14 <\oren\> `le/rn apple//An apple is a sweet fruit grown on trees in temperate areas. Also an unimportant Californian rectangle factory.
04:39:17 <HackEgo> Learned 'apple': An apple is a sweet fruit grown on trees in temperate areas. Also an unimportant Californian rectangle factory.
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06:43:57 <HackEgo> The plural form of "Belgium" is "Belgia".
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08:54:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50603&oldid=50562 * Rdebath * (+334) Small notes on "Hello World" variants
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11:56:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50604&oldid=50596 * Erikkonstas * (+281) /* Introductions */
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15:28:52 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. au revoirjan.
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17:16:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50605&oldid=50493 * Ivancr72 * (-21)
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18:36:00 <HackEgo> stalagmite//A stalagmite is an upside-down stalactite.
18:40:24 <boily> . o O ( resist the temptation. do not stalagtite. it's for your own best interest. do not yield. )
18:40:39 <boily> . o O ( damn you fingers. )
18:40:48 <boily> huh? wasn't there a wisdom about that?
18:41:26 <boily> yup, there was. still in the PDF, so all is well.
18:45:56 <HackEgo> evil throne//The evil throne belongs to oerjan, when he's not being overthrone. He rarely sits on it, though, since that time it tried to eat him.
18:46:22 <boily> didn't he relinquish it yesterday? or was it only the northern bit of it?
18:46:45 <boily> @ask oerjan hellørjagain. do you still throne, or did you abdicate all of it?
18:46:52 <HackEgo> alise//elliott's not hiding over here
18:47:08 <HackEgo> endomorphism//Endomorphisms are just final morphisms.
18:47:18 <HackEgo> manometer//A manometer is a device for testing real men by putting them under pressure.
18:47:44 <HackEgo> tgtgtgtg//This gizmo talks gibberish too garbled to grasp.
18:48:08 <boily> the sound of tickling Bruce Wayne's beard.
18:48:17 <HackEgo> tmux//tmux is a way to have tabs in your terminal without having bash barf all over your screen. It allows the character 🀤 to appear.
18:48:45 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
18:49:12 <boily> I can't mouse select. if I drag'n'drop, it switches windows in weechat depending on the direction.
18:49:24 <boily> I don't want silly mouse gestures in my IRC.
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18:53:31 <HackEgo> [U+1F024 MAHJONG TILE BAMBOO]
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18:55:50 <boily> (ftr, I tried it, but found it too much of a hassle to properly configure to my tastes.)
18:56:16 <boily> (re my current problem: this only happens here on my laptop for no apparent reason.)
18:57:22 <int-e> it's a touchy topic
19:05:43 <zzo38> What electrical specification is needed for Digi-RGB to send the video properly without distortion? Some shielding may be needed also. Also the speed may be high so that also is relevant to figure if capacitance and so on is relevance but I don't know a lot about it to figure out
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19:41:37 <zzo38> C does not have the support for anonymous macros.
19:41:57 <zzo38> Nor for overloading macros.
19:43:38 <boily> hezzo38. how would one achieve an anonymous macro???
19:45:52 <zzo38> I am not quite sure, but I have once found myself wanting to use such a thing. Possibly that a macro argument will then be defined as a temporary macro with a new name not used otherwise.
19:46:31 <zzo38> C also has no precomputed or partially precomputed macros, and I think ability for partially precomputed macros can be useful to have.
19:46:54 <boily> shouldn't that be better constrained through well-typed higher-order functions?
19:47:29 <boily> (caveat boilemptor: I never used C's function pointers. they are terrifying.)
19:48:33 <zzo38> That is one thing, but macros is another thing. High-order macro can be help good though I think
19:49:31 <zzo38> I think the main problem with C's function pointers is the syntax for specifying types, but if you use typedef then you can avoid these problems.
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20:24:07 <\oren\> I'm adding more ogham letters
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20:35:33 <izabera> any japanese speaker online?
20:36:42 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/22US73Y.png they wrote goddo in furigana over kami, and the voice actor also read goddo
20:42:09 <alercah> izabera: an alternate reading
20:42:58 <alercah> in this case it looks like the name is "God Enel", and they wanted to preserve the meaning of the kanji for kami, so they used the kanji but the furigana say to pronounce it differently
20:43:53 <\oren\> they just decided to say the english word god but write it with 神 to give the meaning
20:45:44 <\oren\> similar thing below that where they wrote 夜明曲 but gave furigana of オーバード
20:48:41 <\oren\> the kanji reads as dawn-song roughly
20:49:11 <izabera> i see, but i didn't know those <.<
20:49:52 <\oren\> 夜明曲 isn't a real word apparently
20:50:16 <\oren\> but 夜明け means dawn and 曲 means song
20:52:41 <zzo38> I have also noticed at least once before in Akagi manga where they did add a kanji with the furigana to specify the English reading.
20:53:44 <zzo38> Sometimes it can be confusing if you mean a Japanese, Chinese, or English reading of the words, but probably to Japanese people it is less confusing, although still sometimes they want to specify differently I suppose, is why they do like that.
20:54:19 <alercah> Mudazumo Naki Kaikaku does it a bunch to rename mahjong terms
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21:27:14 <zzo38> I wrote on my computer how to make up a Pokemon game out of only sixty-four printable ASCII characters arranged in a 8x8 grid, and seven buttons.
21:28:22 <zzo38> This is link to what I wrote about it http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon8x8
21:30:31 <zzo38> Nicknames can be limited to two letters, name of attacks/items can be limited to five letters
21:30:43 <zzo38> Name of element types can be limited to one letter.
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21:59:46 <int-e> ... bah, 8 years after it was founded it finally dawns upon me that "groupon" is a pun. (triggered by a discussion of "groupBy" in #haskell of all things)
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22:13:05 <int-e> Why don't you join and judge for yourself.
22:13:47 <int-e> It's not as cool as it was, but it's not bad either, I think. But I actually don't read it much anymore.
22:14:49 <shachaf> 01:08 <shachaf> Is it considered a problem if I can write "x = y" but can't give x the inferred type, or are situations like that unavoidable nowadays?
22:14:56 <shachaf> 01:11 <shachaf> What about if I can use a value with a type application, but can't :t it in ghci?
22:14:59 <shachaf> 01:11 <shachaf> These are both with AmbiguousTypes (and TypeApplications).
22:15:46 <shachaf> I was trying to get reflection working with type application.
22:16:02 <shachaf> And even when I could make something with the right type it was unusable.
22:16:04 <int-e> Didn't get a reply, but it's a tricky question... might try the mailing list (so that SPJ sees the question, he and goldfire are probably the two people who are most qualified to answer this question)
22:16:35 <shachaf> If only SPJ was reachable without email.
22:21:33 <\oren\> Cheers is a funny show
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22:54:04 <zzo38> Do you have email? I find a better email client is Heirloom-Mailx and I can avoid spam by creating new aliases for each thing.
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22:58:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Tiny]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50606&oldid=50601 * Serprex * (+283) contradiction
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23:42:12 <zzo38> Now I made ff-distort to distort pictures.
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23:55:34 <lambdabot> boily said 8h 26m 41s ago: hellørjan. au revoirjan.
23:55:34 <lambdabot> boily asked 5h 8m 48s ago: hellørjagain. do you still throne, or did you abdicate all of it?
23:55:58 <oerjan> helloily. the northernmost throne is entirely separate from the evil throne hth
23:58:14 <oerjan> <boily> huh? wasn't there a wisdom about that? <-- check the spelling hth
00:00:10 <shachaf> oerjan: are you saying santa claus is not evil tdnh
00:00:56 <shachaf> those out of context quotes and replies are frustrating tdnh
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00:01:39 <oerjan> well boily will probably ping out before he sees them, anyway.
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00:02:48 <oerjan> shachaf: beware of such comments, they may get you on the naughty list tdnh
00:04:41 <shachaf> if you get on that list twice does it cancel out
00:10:14 <lambdabot> LOWI 282350Z AUTO 28003KT 9999 NCD M04/M06 Q1040
00:10:36 <int-e> I thought it was a bit cold outside. Glad to have it confirmed.
00:12:51 <lambdabot> BIRK 290000Z 21023KT 9999 -SHSN FEW010 SCT035CB BKN064 01/M02 Q0998
00:14:07 <Zarutian> which of these field is the temperture and on what scale?
00:16:08 <oerjan> int-e: i hope GG's Grandma is as prepared as she gives impression of or this is going to turn _bad_ even in Family terms...
00:16:32 <LKoen> zzo38: are you the one who commented on the "orwell chess" chessvariant page?
00:16:53 <LKoen> this game attracted my attention a long time ago
00:16:57 <int-e> oerjan: Well this feels like a Grand Finale so it's time to kill a couple of main characters anyway *runs*
00:17:14 <oerjan> int-e: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
00:17:49 <int-e> I know, I know, we still haven't seen any time travel.
00:17:50 <oerjan> tarvek has hopefully taken his own antidote...
00:18:23 <Zarutian> int-e: because of the whole 'hotdog' incident it was pretty much banned.
00:18:50 <int-e> But the machines riding the time machines could be clanks built by van Rijn.
00:19:00 <int-e> Zarutian: does "GG" mean anything to you?
00:19:13 <int-e> Because I don't recall any hotdogs in there.
00:19:41 <oerjan> int-e: why would he build clanks looking like agatha, gil and moloch
00:20:00 <int-e> oerjan: To avoid plot holes!
00:20:10 <int-e> It'll be a bumpy ride as is :-P
00:20:56 <oerjan> int-e: i am sort of hoping that she was expecting the Queen when she told tarvek it would be "educational"
00:20:57 <Zarutian> int-e: depends. If from an First Person Shooter then it means Good Game
00:21:11 <int-e> (it's so much fun to mess with oerjan's head... usually it's the other way around)
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00:21:43 <Zarutian> int-e: Otherwise in an certain online RPG it stands for Gold Gainer
00:21:52 <int-e> Zarutian: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/ ... not required reading
00:22:11 <Zarutian> int-e: oh, I am sorry. I know too damn many acronyms
00:22:14 <int-e> But a very good web comic...
00:22:25 <int-e> Zarutian: you're forgiven
00:22:42 <Zarutian> I got it in a pinned tab in my web browser
00:23:01 <int-e> (I actually do see the "good game" variant quite a bit, in another online gaming context.)
00:23:04 <Zarutian> schlock merchanary is another good one.
00:23:44 <int-e> I have trouble dating that ship design though.
00:33:14 <int-e> Oh, it's back to the roots.
00:33:53 <frootykook> http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/!.images.page/welcome/welcomepage2.jpg
00:35:24 <int-e> (this helped: http://schlockmercenary.wikia.com/wiki/Kitesfear )
00:37:23 <int-e> which appeared here for the first time, http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2000-06-18
00:43:12 <int-e> and I suppose http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-02-13 was the last appearance; the explosion is http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-02-07; the last live appearance of the ship is http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-02-04 (last panel), my curiosity is satisfied :)
01:28:06 <\oren\> horay, I finished coptic!
01:28:26 <\oren\> ...well, the basic coptic alphabet
01:31:45 <\oren\> what shuld I do next...
01:33:52 <int-e> . o O ( `learn Coptology is comprised of coptanalysis and coptography. Coptanalysis is concerned with the disassembly and analysis of copters, whereas coptography is the art of designing and engineering copters that are robust against coptanalysis. )
01:37:12 <oerjan> int-e: you go right ahead
01:37:36 <int-e> `learn Coptology is comprised of coptanalysis and coptography. Coptanalysis is concerned with the disassembly and reverse engineering of copters, whereas coptography is the art of designing and engineering copters that are robust against coptanalysis.
01:37:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'coptology': Coptology is comprised of coptanalysis and coptography. Coptanalysis is concerned with the disassembly and reverse engineering of copters, whereas coptography is the art of designing and engineering copters that are robust against coptanalysis.
01:38:11 <HackEgo> trunc//The trunc and truncf functions (of C99 and C++11) are actually supported by the MS compiler (starting from the 2013), only strangely undocumented.
01:38:31 <int-e> (If anyone wonders where that came from... I wanted to read "coptic" as "cryptic" and the rest was kind of obvious.)
01:38:32 <HackEgo> repetive//A repetive action is one that tries to repeat something, but fails miserably.
01:40:05 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEsbMj3tfdE
01:51:30 <HackEgo> hagb4rd//hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
01:51:40 <HackEgo> japan//Japan is so far from Finland. However, like Finland, it is so near to Russia, and quite a long way from Cairo. It's many fewer miles from Vietnam than Finland is.
01:54:00 <\oren\> “If you are corrupt, I will fetch you with a helicopter and I will throw you out on the way to Manila,” Duterte said, as cited by the Philippine Star newspaper.
01:56:04 <oerjan> research continues on whether it's best to elect politicians that are corrupt, or politicians that are straight up insane.
02:04:38 <fizzie> Japan is handier to get to from Finland than from UK.
02:04:52 <fizzie> As far as I can determine, the only direct flights from London to Japan are to Tokyo.
02:05:19 <pikhq> oerjan: America confounds by picking both of the above.
02:06:04 <fizzie> (From Finland, Finnair flies non-stop to at least four airports.)
02:07:53 <oerjan> pikhq: that's the control group
02:08:14 <fizzie> pikhq: Fukuoka, Nagoya (Chubu), Osaka (KIX) and Tokyo.
02:09:05 <pikhq> fizzie: There's not a "Tokyo Airport"; do you mean Tokyo Narita or Tokyo Haneda?
02:10:35 <fizzie> (From Heathrow you can get to both of those, but no other places in Japan.)
02:10:59 <pikhq> Little surprised they'd have a direct flight to Nagoya.
02:12:15 <fizzie> Well, Finnair tries to make a big deal about being a "gateway to Asia" for the European market.
02:12:37 <fizzie> https://www.finnair.com/gb/gb/destinations/asia-pacific/japan/nagoya
02:12:49 <fizzie> "We fly the geographically shorter route to Asia, making your flight time to Japan considerably shorter."
02:13:27 <pikhq> Oh, they fly to Nagoya out of London? Hah!
02:14:22 <pikhq> Oh, no, that's not direct, that's via Helsinki.
02:14:40 <fizzie> Yeah, it's showing "from London"-oriented info because I picked UK as my location.
02:15:03 <pikhq> Because otherwise it'd pick a non-English language, and that is the working language of #esoteric.
02:15:34 <fizzie> You can do "Finland, English" as well.
02:15:35 <fizzie> https://www.finnair.com/fi/gb/destinations/asia-pacific/japan/nagoya
02:15:58 <fizzie> (Not all combinations are valid, but it offers English in several geographical locations.)
02:16:38 <pikhq> I suppose there's going to be rather a lot of people all over Europe who only speak English and a language local to their place of birth but not to their current place of residence, so.
02:17:22 <pikhq> Well. Current location, not so much residence.
02:17:43 <pikhq> I at least assume if you're in an area for a reasonable amount of time you'd try to pick up the local language regardless. :)
02:22:34 <alercah> when I flew Toronto to Japan, we went over Russia
02:23:03 <pikhq> And Russia being a lot more close to Japan than people usually think.
02:23:44 <alercah> got a cool view of some random kamchatkan volcanoes
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02:33:45 <\oren\> I don't like the practice of naming things like "the hamiltonian". The hamiltonian what?
02:34:29 <fizzie> Quantas is planning to start a regular non-stop service from London to Perth, apparently the first such service from UK to Australia.
02:34:38 <int-e> \oren\: how do you feel about "the derivative" then?
02:34:39 <fizzie> "The flights are expected to run 14 times per week, and will take about 17 hours, depending on weather conditions."
02:35:22 <int-e> it's a far distance.
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02:52:34 <\oren\> i wonder how it would feel to spend 17 hours on an airplane
02:52:49 <\oren\> I've done 12 many times before
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03:16:14 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett.
03:20:53 <tswett> So, a deductive system that's missing one of the usual structural rules (weakening, contraction, exchange) is called a substructural logic.
03:21:09 <tswett> What do you call a deductive system that *has* all three of those rules?
03:21:26 <tswett> Is that a "fully structural logic" or something?
03:26:18 <hppavilion1> What would be the name of the `jew command variant for wisdom?
03:26:32 <hppavilion1> (we'll assume there's a command named `jew. It's a coincidence.)
03:27:30 <tswett> Still just substructural.
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03:31:52 <oerjan> hppavilion1: `trwll hth
03:32:51 <oerjan> the point is you're trolling hth
03:38:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: jww?: not found
03:47:02 <\oren\> and obviously `wow would become www
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04:42:28 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uizvFK2KQ_o
04:48:58 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjB8pwNRFmY
04:56:53 <zzo38> A chess problem mentioned in HAKMEM: 8/5BP1/1p6/8/1N6/kP6/2K5/8 #3
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05:30:13 <tswett> Hey folks, have a notation!
05:30:17 <tswett> Here's the unknot: A/V
05:30:31 <tswett> Here's a more verbose way of writing the unknot: A/II/V
05:30:40 <tswett> And an even more verbose way: A/II/II/II/II/II/II/V
05:31:17 <tswett> And another verbose way: AAAAA/IVVVVI/V
05:31:33 <tswett> All of those are knot diagrams with no crossings.
05:32:08 <tswett> Here's a diagram of the unknot, with lots of crossings going in the same direction: A/N/N/N/N/N/N/N/N/V
05:32:16 <tswett> Lots of crossings in the opposite direction: A/Z/Z/Z/Z/Z/V
05:33:23 <tswett> Here's a diagram of the unknot with lots of crossings, oriented horizontally this time:
05:43:09 <tswett> Here's the trefoil knot: AA/INI/ZZ/IVI/V
05:43:24 <zgrep> What's this notation?
05:44:55 <tswett> It's a notation for tangle diagrams, where "tangle" means the "in link theory" meaning here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangle_(mathematics)
05:46:10 <tswett> A represents a tangle with 0 endpoints on the top and 2 endpoints on the bottom. It's just an arc connecting the two endpoints.
05:46:23 <tswett> I represents a tangle with 1 endpoint on the top and 1 endpoint on the bottom. Again, just an arc connecting the two endpoints.
05:46:43 <tswett> V represents a tangle with 2 endpoints on the top and 0 endpoints on the bottom. Once again, just an arc connecting the two endpoints.
05:47:37 <tswett> N represents a tangle with 2 endpoints on the top and 2 endpoints on the bottom. There's an arc connecting top-left to bottom-right, crossing in front of an arc connecting top-right to bottom-left.
05:48:03 <tswett> Z represents a tangle with 2 endpoints on the top and 2 endpoints on the bottom. There's an arc connecting top-right to bottom-left, crossing in front of an arc connecting top-left to bottom-right.
05:50:28 <tswett> Juxtaposition represents... juxtaposition. If you juxtapose a tangle with t1 endpoints on the top and b1 endpoints on the bottom (a tangle t1 -> b1) and a tangle with t2 on the top and b2 on the bottom (a tangle t2 -> b2), you get a tangle with t1 + t2 on top and b1 + b2 on the bottom.
05:50:56 <tswett> The slash represents stacking or composition. If you compose a tangle t -> m and a tangle m -> b, you get a tangle t -> b.
05:51:20 <tswett> Of course, this means that tangles form a category.
05:51:31 * zgrep should learn a tad more about category theory
05:52:03 <alercah> only some and knots are tangles \{\} -> \{\}?
05:52:50 <tswett> Links are tangles 0 -> 0.
05:53:01 <tswett> Knots are tangles 0 -> 0 that have the property that there's only one component.
05:57:12 <tswett> If I'm not mistaken, there are surprisingly few axioms you need in order to get all of the equalities that you'd want.
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05:58:42 <tswett> Axiom AJ: Juxtaposition is associative. Axiom AC: Composition is associative. Axiom JC: (a/b) (c/d) = ac/bd.
05:59:07 <tswett> Axiom S: IA/VI = I (plus mirror images).
05:59:29 <tswett> Well, there's only one mirror image. It's AI/IV = I.
06:00:54 <tswett> "S" stands for "straighten", and the letter S also happens to resemble the left-hand side of the operation.
06:03:09 <tswett> Axiom Psi: IZ/VI = NI/IV (plus mirror images).
06:03:20 <tswett> This time there are 7 mirror images.
06:03:31 <tswett> "Psi" doesn't stand for anything, but the letter does resemble the left-hand side of the operation.
06:04:04 <tswett> Axiom R1: A = A/Z (plus 3 mirror images).
06:04:22 <tswett> Axiom R2: Z/N = II (plus 1 mirror image).
06:07:07 <tswett> Axiom R3: IN/NI/IZ = ZI/IN/NI (plus 3 mirror images).
06:08:56 <tswett> Let me redo that last one slightly.
06:09:02 <tswett> Axiom R3a: IN/NI/IZ = ZI/IN/NI (plus 3 mirror images).
06:10:49 <tswett> Axiom R3b: IN/NI/IN = NI/IN/NI (plus 1 mirror image).
06:11:01 <tswett> I think that's all of them.
06:18:03 <alercah> AJ and AC don't need to be axioms do they?
06:18:43 <alercah> also you need a logical system that allows you to apply these axioms in a subtangle of the tangle you're working with
06:21:03 <tswett> Sure, you need a logical system that obeys the substitution property.
06:21:35 <tswett> Why wouldn't you need AJ and AC as axioms? Associativity of operators doesn't just happen automatically.
06:22:10 <alercah> it can happen as a consequence of your definitions, which I believe it does here
06:28:11 <tswett> So how would you prove that (A/V) (A/V) = AA/VV?
06:28:34 <tswett> I think I'm missing one axiom. Here it is:
06:29:26 <tswett> Axiom I: Each tangle consisting of zero or more juxtapositions of I is an identity element for composition.
06:30:16 <tswett> ...okay, my question was silly, because you didn't say that you wouldn't need JC as an axiom, and so the answer is that you'd use axiom JC.
06:30:37 <tswett> Okay, how would you prove that (II)I = I(II)?
06:31:00 <tswett> Or that (N/N)/N = N/(N/N)?
06:34:39 <alercah> hmm I suppose I'm assuming that you have tangle operations defined already
06:35:14 <alercah> in which case, perhaps your approach is correct
06:35:33 <alercah> but I would generally prefer to define the composition and juxtaposition semantically rather than syntactically
06:38:46 <zgrep> What if I rotate a knot.
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08:17:07 * rdococ needs constant attention
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08:42:47 * rdococ still needs constant attention
08:54:11 * zgrep pours a bucket of detention on rdococ
08:54:25 <zgrep> I didn't have any attention nearby, so I thought it'd be close enough.
09:02:01 <Taneb> zgrep, do you have poor attention retention?
09:02:10 * rdococ snatches the bucket and uses it to attack zgrep with asphyxiation
09:02:38 <rdococ> I know it's not very close to attention, but it's the only thing I had.
09:02:48 <zgrep> Taneb: Don't even mention (it).
09:03:08 <zgrep> rdococ: I... hhhHHhhHHh... see...
09:03:19 * rdococ is pretending to have a small attention span
09:03:33 <zgrep> <span>attntn</span>
09:04:39 <zzo38> For chess problems there is the Codex of Chess. So, for Magic: the Puzzling, I invented the Codex of Magic: the Gathering. However, some things are missing and if you know of any problem it causes that hopefully I could fix it.
09:05:44 <rdococ> hllo. I wll now use an abitary losy copresin algitm fr Eglsh.
09:06:17 * zgrep is reminded of http://ed-von-schleck.github.io/shoco/
09:12:42 * rdococ gives zgrep some more asphyxiation
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12:16:10 <hppavilion1> rdococ: My grandmother used to talk by dropping all the vowels
12:21:56 <rdococ> hw dd sh prnnc cnsnnts lke tht?
12:22:34 <rdococ> how would she string consonants together tho?
12:26:58 <FireFly> (was some other net splitting recently too?)
12:28:08 <hppavilion1> FireFly: Foonetic is having a shittonne of netsplits
12:28:35 <hppavilion1> FireFly: I had THREE Foonetic tabs open the other day, one on each running server we could find.
12:28:48 <hppavilion1> rdococ: I have no idea. She must be a god.
12:29:02 <FireFly> I don't know enough about foonetic..
12:29:23 <zgrep> That's all I've ever seen / been on it.
12:29:52 <rdococ> we have i^2 = -1, |@| = -1, I wonder what other functions we could define impossible circumstances for, and use for new numbers
12:29:55 <hppavilion1> rdococ: But in all seriousness, she only did it while texting. I think I eventually snapped at her and said "This is English, not Arabic. We use an alphabet, not a fucking abjad", but I don't think I said it like that (citation: She's my grandma) and I'm not sure if I ever really said it
12:31:32 <zgrep> hppavilion1: Gamma? $?
12:31:33 <rdococ> |x| = sin(t) + icos(t) and we have an infinite number of numbers including @ and γ
12:31:43 <rdococ> s/sin/cos and s/cos/sin I got those mixed up
12:31:48 <rdococ> but whatever it doesn't mean too much
12:31:52 <zgrep> hppavilion1: But... now I have to find my gamma key.
12:31:58 <zgrep> Maybe I should get an APL keyboard.
12:32:13 <hppavilion1> zgrep: Do you have a custom keyboard layout? :D
12:32:21 <zgrep> No, but I could easily set one up.
12:34:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wa: not found
12:34:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
12:34:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/w
12:35:34 <fizzie> What on earth could you possibly be looking for?
12:35:51 * zgrep . o O ( The ISS. )
12:36:27 <fizzie> "wa" is a weird abbreviation for the ISS.
12:36:41 <rdococ> international space station?
12:37:35 <zgrep> That'd make a tad more sense...
12:37:52 <rdococ> sqrt(i)^8 = i^4 = -1^2 = 1
12:39:24 <rdococ> tbh if I were to choose an existing angular measurement other than radians I'd go for grads (1 grad = τ/400)
12:39:53 <rdococ> if I were able to make my own I would use powers of 12 eg. 144 because of their high divisibility.
12:40:29 <hppavilion1> rdococ: I hate grads. Also, that's why we use 360
12:41:05 <rdococ> but 1/3 of 90 degrees is 33.33333.... not a pretty number. but 1/3 of 36 rdococs are 12 rdococs.
12:41:39 <hppavilion1> rdococ: They're both superior highly composite numbers
12:41:48 <hppavilion1> rdococ: 360 is at least less arbitrary than 400
12:42:47 <hppavilion1> rdococ: I like bidrees, which are 1/256. I'm making a physics calculator that can do angles nicely, and it implements, like, 12 types of measurement.
12:42:48 * rdococ is now enlightened with hppavilion1's wisdom
12:43:10 <rdococ> 1 / a power of 2? nope pls
12:44:05 <rdococ> but in defense of 144, in the dozenal system a quarter would be 30_12 rdococs, and a third 40_12 rdococs
12:45:09 <rdococ> you mean bidrees? I guess that's good for binary computing
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12:48:16 <zgrep> Oh, that's right... HackEgo is tightly locked down, it can't make any sort of network requests. :(
12:51:58 <zgrep> At least, it could, were some sort of proxy running.
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13:12:29 <rdococ> τ is a fun number but I prefer τ/4. e^iτ/4 = i c:
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13:15:49 <fizzie> zgrep: There was a proxy thing (with an explicit whitelist), but it got out of order during a move.
13:16:03 <fizzie> zgrep: At any rate, if "wa" meant Wolfram|Alpha, that sort of command would be explicitly against the Wolfram|Alpha Terms of Use.
13:16:21 <fizzie> "The Wolfram|Alpha service may be used only by a human being using a conventional web browser to manually enter queries one at a time."
13:16:54 <rdococ> so Siri doing it is against the terms?
13:17:12 <fizzie> I expect they have a separate agreement.
13:17:39 <fizzie> (Presumably an actual API as well.)
13:20:21 <zgrep> fizzie: But the API has its own terms of use.
13:20:51 <fizzie> Oh, they've got a public thing now?
13:20:58 <zgrep> They have for a long time.
13:21:02 <fizzie> Last time we had this discussion, the website was the only thing they had.
13:21:13 <zgrep> Well, for a long time from my perspective.
13:21:35 <zgrep> http://products.wolframalpha.com/docs/WolframAlpha-API-Reference.pdf
13:21:37 <rdococ> yeah they do have an api
13:21:51 <fizzie> In that case, that's different.
13:22:21 <zgrep> I was going to use an API key, etc. It's limited, but since HackEgo can't let me get things from / via the API anyway, *shrug*.
13:22:28 <zgrep> At least, not unless I do it manually.
13:25:04 <fizzie> Apparently you'd have to do the link thing anyway, it's kind of ugly for IRC.
13:25:13 <fizzie> ("Unless part of a written agreement to the contrary, You are required to provide a hyperlink to http://www.wolframalpha.com on every page with Results.")
13:25:36 <fizzie> I guess that's relatively short link.
13:25:39 <zgrep> Well, IRC technically doesn't have pages.
13:26:11 <zgrep> I know of at least one bot that doesn't link to wolfram alpha every time.
13:26:42 <fizzie> I wouldn't expect them to actually enforce that.
13:27:09 <fizzie> It's a bit of a shame the proxy thing is broken, there were some other commands that also used the internets that no longer work as well.
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13:31:48 <rdococ> what would happen if there were particles that attracted their charge?
13:31:59 <rdococ> would they just be the opposite charge?
13:33:52 <zgrep> At some (small) distances, certain forces overpower electromagnetic forces. Stuff sticks together, like atoms, which is handy for our continued existence.
13:39:46 <rdococ> I wonder, in a world made of tachyons, would we look like the FTL matter?
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14:06:18 <int-e> zgrep: may the strong force be with you!
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14:37:00 <rdococ> what kind of type is int-e anyway?
14:41:20 <\oren\> answers.com is such a crap
14:44:10 <rdococ> wonder what type int-e is.
14:44:23 <rdococ> maybe a multiple of e?
14:46:23 <rdococ> oh my god IE IS IMAGINARY E
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14:53:36 * rdococ ponders the facts that 0+1i is a 90 degree rotation, but 0+1i+0j+0k is 180 degrees.
14:54:40 <rdococ> anyone have any thoughts on the topic?
14:56:47 * myname gives rdococ e,attention
14:57:36 <rdococ> 0+1i is a tau/4 rotation in the complex plane, but a tau/2 rotation in the quaternion hyperspace.
15:05:41 <int-e> it appears that conjugation isn't the same as multiplication
15:06:38 <int-e> yes. conjugation is how quaternions give rise to rotation, x |-> a x a^-1
15:07:14 <int-e> (IIRC, but I'm fairly certain anyway)
15:08:04 <rdococ> 0 + 1k is equal to the Euler angle (180, 180, 0) = (0, 0, 180)
15:08:12 <rdococ> and you get that by multiplying i and j
15:08:17 <rdococ> ij, not ji which is -k
15:09:17 <rdococ> (180, 0, 0) + (0, 180, 0) = (180, 180, 0) = (0, 0, 180), and ij = k
15:09:29 <rdococ> that's how I know it's multiplication, not conjugation
15:12:09 <int-e> i^-1 = -1; i(ai + bj + ck)(-i) = (-a+bk-cj)(-i) = ai-bj-ck
15:12:26 * rdococ has just been thrown letters
15:12:43 <rdococ> 1/i = -i, I'm pretty sure
15:12:50 <int-e> well, use x y z instead of a b c if you prefer those names for coordinates.
15:13:05 <int-e> it won't change the fact that the operation being used is conjugation.
15:14:58 <int-e> *composition* of rotations is multiplication, becuae r (s x s^-1) r^-1 = (r s) x (r s)^-1. That's a law of conjugates.
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15:55:04 <HackEgo> notsuredom//A state of incertitude, partial existence, dubiosity and conjecturability.
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16:14:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FTcode * New user account
16:29:54 <int-e> rdococ: some quaternion math: http://sprunge.us/FUTg
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17:57:48 <int-e> . o O ( let's make something up: personalized differential advertising )
18:03:32 <boily> . o O ( polymerized ductile acacia )
18:05:00 * rdococ wonders the mechanics of the humble cog in four dimensional space.
18:06:30 <int-e> boily: tbh I scared myself a little there; my interpretaion of "differential advertising" would be planting an idea in somebody's mind in such small incremental steps that they don't notice it happening.
18:07:22 <rdococ> that does sound creepy
18:08:11 <boily> int-e: Burma Shave Mind Control.
18:08:27 <boily> but don't worry, it's personalized!
18:08:39 <rdococ> Personalized Mind Control (TM)(C)(R)
18:09:22 <rdococ> Differential advertising sounds much more sinister in my opinion.
18:09:37 <rdococ> tbh I think some of it might be going on today.
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19:29:28 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0tWfZU0b2I
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19:34:54 <Taneb> Things really are magical sometimess#
19:35:38 <Notebook> I was in a car accident two days ago!
19:35:38 <Taneb> Think about adding and multiplying, and boom, you get polynomials
19:35:51 <Taneb> Generalise them just a little and boom, algebraic geometry
19:35:59 <Taneb> Notebook, are you OK?
19:36:19 <int-e> Well, so far it was single exclamation marks... it may be fine.
19:36:59 <int-e> fungot: Are you more coherent than Notebook?
19:36:59 <fungot> int-e: any new languages? :) taken me all night if you ask me, assuming he's an intentional troll. what is the definition
19:37:23 <int-e> fungot: I'll take that as a no.
19:37:23 <fungot> int-e: i recompiled it with code to resize and copy the commands there are shortcuts
19:37:31 <Taneb> I've been in a couple of crashes like that
19:37:49 <Taneb> Both going southbound on the A68 from Scotland with my dad driving and me in the front seat
19:39:31 <Taneb> All of those are unusual ages for drivers
19:39:53 <Notebook> Well, Timeis infinitely divisible, so everyone is infinity!
19:40:26 <Notebook> And human civilization isn't even visible on a timeline of the universe, from beginning to end.
19:40:41 <Notebook> And I'm a lot younger than human civilization.
19:43:06 * int-e ponders the ieea of a 14 year old notebook...
19:43:32 <int-e> I'd hope it's the dead tree kind, then it would still be of some use :P
19:43:58 <int-e> It may be too late for that now.
19:44:01 <Taneb> int-e, I probably have one somewhere
19:44:40 <Taneb> Oh dear, let's hear it
19:44:46 <Notebook> A multilayered game theory AI.
19:45:35 <Notebook> It basically breaks down problems and solves them but by bit.
19:45:51 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
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19:46:53 <int-e> This channel seems to be unbuzzing with activity.
19:46:59 <Taneb> What sort of problems, Notebook
19:48:23 <int-e> "breaking down problems" is a hard problem.
19:48:40 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Notebook has encountered a problem and needs to restart. Please contact TotallyNotBots for additional help
19:48:58 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 20h 43m 34s ago: <hppavilion[1]> Is the ring the Gaussian Integers form prime? <-- yes, obviously hth
19:49:41 <Notebook> It's more that it's a silly idea.
19:50:11 <int-e> (In *very* easy cases this idea underlies what's called "dynamic programming")
19:50:28 <Notebook> Not the dynamic programming things.
19:51:08 <Notebook> What is Dynamic Programming, anyway?
19:51:52 <int-e> No, the "programming" there derives from its use in optimization. (like "linear programming")
19:52:20 <Notebook> For the record, I'm new to coding.
19:52:40 <Notebook> Linear usually refers to straight things, cause to effect, right?
19:52:44 <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, I accidentally edited the topic on my end (before submitting)
19:53:01 <hppavilion[1]> I want to refresh it, but I've never been sure how without leaving and rejoining
19:53:05 <int-e> The basic idea is that when a problem's solution can be derived from smaller instances of the same kind of problem, then you can speed this up by basically tabulating the answers for all those smaller problems (thus avoiding computing the answer for the same smaller problem several times, at the cost of increased memory usage)
19:54:03 <int-e> "linear programming" is "linear optimization", minimizing or maximizing the value of a linear function in real variables subject to linear constraints (linear inequalities with the same variables)
19:54:05 <hppavilion[1]> ...huh, you were referencing Doctor Who before I joined the channel.
19:54:55 <Notebook> The thing about linear programming.
19:56:05 <Notebook> But probably the other fellow, because my father hit him in the side, implying he passed in front.
19:56:16 <int-e> I'm trying to get across to you that the "programming" in "linear programming", and also in "dynamic programming" has almost nothing to do with programming computers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming
19:56:21 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: You were referencing Doctor Who before I joined the channel, then I referenced the Daleks after joining. If you aren't particularly used to IRC, it should be noted that your client doesn't show you what happened before you joined unless the network has a service for that.
19:57:03 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: Wait, who told you time is infinitely divisible?
19:57:36 <Notebook> In that you can always cut it smaller, unlike matter.
19:57:37 <Taneb> Notebook, is space also infinitely divisible
19:58:09 <int-e> Planck might disagree somewhat
19:58:33 <Notebook> Anyway, int-e , I didn't understand a word of that.
19:58:50 <int-e> Don't worry about it.
19:59:47 <Notebook> Anyways, I was just think that having multiple optimization systems compute various aspects of the problem, while more resource intensive in the short run, may be more efficient overall.
20:00:02 <Notebook> Also, it could improve itself faster.
20:00:58 <Notebook> Just thought I should bounce it off people who know more about computers than me.
20:01:12 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: Planck time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time) and Planck length (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length) are units of measurement based on fundamental constants of the universe; by all current understandings of physics, it doesn't make sense to talk about a distance shorter than the Planck Length or a duration shorter than the Planck Time. hth.
20:06:01 <int-e> It's really way too vague to say anything meaningful about it. So I'll go with "sounds good".
20:09:19 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: Whether there IS time or length shorter than Planck units is irrelevant to science; you can argue there is or there isn't, but by our understanding of physics, it doesn't change anything.
20:12:43 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I get the feeling decomposing problems is NP, at least
20:13:40 <hppavilion[1]> It can definitely be checked in P if it can be reduced to finitely-many combinations of inputs and outputs, but that might be trivial...
20:17:04 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: The hardest open problem in all of computer science, and possibly mathematics, iirc
20:18:13 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: It's one of the millennium prize problems, so a correct solution nets you $1_000_000 at least, and there may be other prizes also open for it that bring that up even more.
20:18:59 * Notebook is in grade 9, for the record.
20:19:27 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: I think I did polynomials in 7th, but OTOH I was put in the really-smart-person basket
20:19:50 <hppavilion[1]> (Not just the smart-person basket; the REALLY-smart-person basket. Not sure why though :P)
20:21:28 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: Polynomials in some set of variables are expressions/functions/whatever that can be written as summing terms of a real constant (or maybe complex, or maybe just whatever, I forget) multiplied by some variables to natural number powers.
20:22:18 <myname> hppavilion[1]: NP is not really the hardest
20:22:32 <myname> they are like a few dozen harder complexity classes
20:22:46 <myname> NP <= PSPACE for example
20:22:48 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: So, for example, f x = x^2 and f x = 2x^3+4.5x^2-9x+4 are polynomials, whereas f x = x^-1, f x = x^2.5, and f x = 2^x are not
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20:23:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I meant that P vs. NP is the hardest PROBLEM to solve, not that NP is the hardest TYPE of problem
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20:23:46 <hppavilion[1]> If you include Undecidables, those are obviously the hardest
20:24:19 <myname> what a mess of a language
20:24:33 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: In computers, it's often useful to know how a problem gets harder as it grows. You write this in big O notation as O(whatever), which I barely understand.
20:25:45 <myname> hppavilion[1]: big o is pretty simple, f is in O(g) if there is a constant c and an n_0 with c*f(n) <= g(n) for all n >= n_0
20:25:56 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: A problem in P can be solved in O(p) time, where p is a polynomial and the variable represents the size of the problem; so an O(n^2) problem takes time proportional to the square of the problem size. You can usually eliminate constants and smaller terms, so O(2x^2+3x+9) is the same as O(x^2) iirc
20:26:35 <myname> e.g. if you draw f(x) = x and g(x) = x^2 you will,have points on f that are above g, but they will not appear for x >= 1
20:27:08 <myname> Notebook: how did you get here?
20:27:08 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: Ah. I'm not sure I ever started doing hard math; most of it was just example expressions other than the big O
20:28:00 <hppavilion[1]> Notebook: What particular parts don't you understand? Out of curiosity.
20:28:28 <shachaf> I was reading all those as "note to self".
20:28:32 <myname> explaining NP really is nothing you want to do on irc ad hoc
20:39:33 <hppavilion[1]> ...is Notebook just going to sit in the channel, or...
20:43:32 <int-e> . o O ( But explaining NP can be so SATisfying. )
20:50:09 <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, I have a Norouiga question but ørjan is offline >.<
20:50:36 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any minimal pairings in any languages distinguished only by "æ" vs. "ae"?
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22:10:56 <shachaf> int-e: Yes, the behavior of qualified class method definitions is pretty odd.
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22:47:13 <zzo38> The various kind of stuff
22:49:45 <zzo38> Do you think this is good? http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/artifact/427c9f72f49f667e
22:56:47 <zzo38> How do I find the files for the X10 compatibility functions?
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23:10:39 <oerjan> hippavilion[1]. there is no such thing as norouiga hth
23:11:26 <oerjan> . o O ( and never the twain shall meet )
23:12:16 <int-e> ... clicked \oren\'s youtube links... what is wrong with you, \oren\?!
23:12:31 <oerjan> int-e: i've long since learned not to do that hth
23:13:00 <oerjan> (not because they're disturbing, mind you, i just don't really care about anime stuff)
23:13:09 <int-e> I'm usually saved by lack of bandwidth
23:13:24 <int-e> but I went to the university to download some 33c3 videos.
23:15:10 <int-e> and now I'm passing some time waiting for a bus.
23:15:19 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Are there any minimal pairings in any languages distinguished only by "æ" vs. "ae"? <-- hm might be tricky. ae is rather rare in norwegian, as is æ.
23:16:18 <oerjan> that is not a common term hth
23:17:12 <oerjan> that pronunciation makes no sense for that spelling, either
23:17:40 <oerjan> i've vaguely heard of that.
23:17:54 <hppavilion[1]> "Ouija Board" has a name like [wiː.dʒi] for some reason
23:18:38 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Thus endeth the longest pronunciation in guide in history )
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23:51:53 <LKoen> @message zzo38 hi! have you tried playing orwell chess yet? was your comment about maharaja purely rational, or empirical?
23:51:53 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages?
23:52:07 <LKoen> @send zzo38 hi! have you tried playing orwell chess yet? was your comment about maharaja purely rational, or empirical?
23:52:41 <LKoen> @send zzo38 hi have you tried playing orwell chess yet was your comment about maharaja purely rational or empirical
23:52:43 <lambdabot> error: Not in scope: type variable ‘zzo38’
23:52:43 <lambdabot> error: Not in scope: type variable ‘hi’
23:52:43 <lambdabot> error: Not in scope: type variable ‘have’
23:53:03 <LKoen> well at least I don't need to send the message
23:53:28 <zzo38> Ouija board in QWERTY order is called a "Luigi board".
23:56:13 <LKoen> I'm looking around for second-hand checkers set to recycle into an orwell chess set
23:56:29 <LKoen> once that's done the harder part will of course be to find players
23:56:53 <zzo38> Chess set that I have is combine chess/checkers/backgammon; if you have one of those then you can use checkers too.
23:57:00 <LKoen> I think it's okay that the maharaja is more powerful than the other pieces. it's a way to reward the player who captured a royal piece
23:57:03 <zzo38> And also to use the dice
23:57:39 <LKoen> well, my problem is there are 17 pieces per player in orwell chess
23:57:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: my search of /usr/share/dict/norsk finds only a single example, aksillaer/aksillær. not exactly household words :P
23:58:14 <LKoen> I have several chess sets with pieces that have approximately the same size and different colours, but I'd be missing the gryphon piece or something
23:58:33 <oerjan> (presumably they mean axillas and axillary, respectively)
23:58:52 <LKoen> so my plan was to make "printed pieces", in a way similar to chinese chess
23:59:00 <LKoen> except with images instead of chinese characters
23:59:18 <oerjan> in theory you could have several similar words, but the word list has none.
23:59:37 <LKoen> but that requires 17*3 = 51 checkers pieces, which is more than one checkers set
00:00:01 <LKoen> not to mention extra pieces for the potential extra maharaja
00:02:16 <LKoen> the other possibility would be to use regular chess pieces, with fèves from the epiphany king's cake for the missing pieces
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00:11:01 <int-e> \o/ <-- first slide of the opening ceremony
00:15:52 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Hymn, what are the prime elements <-- the definition of "prime ring" doesn't involve any hth
00:18:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: afaict in a "prime ring" it's the _ideals_ that work as primes, not the elements.
00:18:54 <hppavilion[1]> ...I guess it probably isn't meaningful, now that I think about it
00:19:48 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_element might be more relevant
00:20:45 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_factorization_domain probably
00:21:38 <hppavilion[1]> A <whatever I want to say> is a ring (S, +, ·) where (1) some subset P of S exists where, forall p in P, the only values in the ring satisfying a·b = p are (a = 1, b = p) and (a = p, b = 1) and (2) Using only · and elements in P, it is possible to uniquely specify every element in S up to ordering.
00:22:05 <oerjan> the gaussian integers are listed in the examples
00:24:21 <hppavilion[1]> Oh god, do rings form a group or something meta like that?
00:24:57 <oerjan> well they're a category...
00:25:44 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any things that aren't a category, really?
00:27:06 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If there are, they're in the category of non-categories I'm sure
00:27:12 <oerjan> i doubt rings are a group in a useful sense, inverses seem hard. you can trivially get a monoid though: just take the product.
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00:44:22 <oerjan> <Notebook> You lost me. <-- seriously, that "explanation" wouldn't work for anyone who didn't already know the subject.
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01:16:56 <zzo38> It seems that Exim is using "mboxo" format while Heirloom-mailx is using "mboxrd" format. How can I make Exim to also use "mboxrd" format?
01:32:39 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a name for the feature of english dialects where exempli gratia /tɹ/ -> /tʃɹ/?
01:35:30 <zzo38> I have never heard of such a feature
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01:56:25 <HackEgo> Nithogg: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:59:14 <tswett> `learn A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
01:59:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'monomorphism': A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
01:59:22 <tswett> `learn An epimorphism is just a monomorphism in the opposite category.
01:59:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'epimorphism': An epimorphism is just a monomorphism in the opposite category.
02:00:05 <boily> I know enough category theory that I know that I know nothing about category theory.
02:16:30 <zgrep> Giant photo of space you can download. http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic1502a/
02:22:07 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Notice the big dark area. Think there's a black hole there? :D
02:22:33 <hppavilion[1]> There are a lot of blue stars there, so maybe not.
02:26:48 <zgrep> I'm trying to find an app to open the psb image, because I don't have photoshop.
02:27:18 <zgrep> I can't convert it, because I don't have enough space on this laptop to convert it to a different format.
02:36:05 <zgrep> Doesn't open them.
02:40:00 <zgrep> I freed some space by deleting things.
02:40:04 <zgrep> Now I can convert to tif.
02:44:23 <boily> you want to fax the pictures?
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02:54:45 <tswett> I've been writing up a description of some rules for some formal systems.
02:54:57 <tswett> So far, all of my formal systems kind of suck.
02:55:50 <tswett> The reason for this is that they don't admit any results.
02:56:21 <tswett> They have rules, but so far, all of the rules are impossible to apply, because they have preconditions that can't be satisfied.
03:16:37 <Zarutian> sounds like loan eligabilty ruleset
03:26:07 <int-e> tswett: you can use coinduction to overcome the bootstrap problem (to some extent, tongue in cheek, please don't kill me)
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03:57:56 <tswett> There, I've finally created enough rules that it's possible to derive something.
03:58:57 <tswett> You can now prove such amazing and wonderful theorems as this:
04:05:26 <tswett> Here's a more sophisticated thing you can prove.
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04:20:35 <int-e> tswett: do you have full reflexivity for =?
04:24:43 <Jafet> perhaps that is one of the rules that has “preconditions”
04:44:57 <tswett> int-e: the reflexivity rule says that you can derive "⊢ E = E" for any expression E.
04:46:13 <tswett> Now, I want an associativity rule, of course. I want to say that (h ∘ g) ∘ f = h ∘ (g ∘ f).
04:46:44 <tswett> So here's the question. Should I say that that only works in contexts where f, g, and h actually have the appropriate types?
04:47:14 <tswett> I don't think there's any need for that.
04:47:30 <tswett> I don't think there's any harm in saying that one undefined expression is equal to another... is there?
04:47:50 <tswett> I'll have to find out, I guess.
04:50:58 <Jafet> the standard ML standard doesn't think there's any need for that, either
05:13:02 <tswett> The standard ML standard?
05:13:08 <tswett> Is that the one that defines ML standard ML?
05:15:43 <zzo38> Write a program to convert that picture format into farbfeld format if you know how to do, and we can include in my "Farbfeld Utilities" package.
05:16:46 <zzo38> Even if it is not implemented, you can add the file formats to the list http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=File+formats so that we know what need to be added on
05:20:48 <zzo38> One format that hopefully should be implemented is TIFF/IT format, since few existing programs do as far as I know, so then there will be one.
05:44:29 <hppavilion[1]> If you're in the NSA and are a fan of romantically pairing fictional characters, is one such pairing called a clippership?
06:00:23 <Jafet> tswett: yes, the Definition of Standard ML defines ML standard ML
06:00:37 <Jafet> it's been revised, but not yet revised revised revised revised revised
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09:01:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jdevine * New user account
09:04:06 <zzo38> I made this screen capture program http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/raw/ff-xcapture.c?name=0cbd0bf256fea6445b4c2bc744f6035d4e528bd2 Is this the proper way to deal with Colormaps and those stuff in X window?
09:08:06 <zzo38> My program is not as fast as xwd though
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09:14:06 <zzo38> Maybe XGetPixel makes it slow?
09:15:15 <zzo38> Or maybe not; I have not tested
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14:50:57 <int-e> this is disturbing my morning routine :P
14:51:37 <oerjan> int-e: my daily routine assumes xkcd needs to be checked twice hth
14:52:16 <int-e> hmm, wednesday's freefall was good :)
14:52:25 <oerjan> except today my sleeping rhythm was such that i overslept the first, so...
14:52:52 <int-e> yeah but you know that I'll see it on monday
14:53:22 <oerjan> ...you have a routine that involves checking only _some_ of your webcomics, even if they've already updated?
14:53:23 <int-e> (stupid webcomic not letting me bookmark the latest comic... it's really good otherwise)
14:53:55 * int-e is distracted, actually
14:54:27 <int-e> (Playing 33c3-8014-eng-deu-Untrusting_the_CPU_webm-hd.webm)
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14:55:46 <int-e> oerjan: it's funny, but I delay most of my web comic reading on working days until afternoon or evening.
14:55:58 <int-e> though I'm not working today
14:56:07 <int-e> but xkcd I usually check in the morning.
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14:56:26 <oerjan> despite it rarely updating then.
14:57:30 <int-e> I should treat it as a TTS comic.
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14:59:08 <oerjan> i suppose my ocpd just works in the opposite direction: i load the last comic, but then obsessively also loads the previous to check i haven't skipped one.
15:00:12 <int-e> Especially for the story oriented comics I really like starting with the latest comic that I've already read.
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15:08:08 <oerjan> @tell tswett <tswett> I don't think there's any harm in saying that one undefined expression is equal to another... is there? <-- the question is whether you can prove something false about defined stuff by going through undefined intermediates. e.g. if you allow 0/0 = a because the left side is undefined...
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15:11:43 <oerjan> @tell tswett what's more, because your mind is predisposed to ignore options that are not supposed to be used, it's easy to miss cases when convincing yourself your system is consistent in general.
15:15:42 <HackEgo> atrocity//Atrocity is the capital of the Atrocious Empire.
15:15:46 * oerjan is slightly confused by all the people who register on the wiki without making edits, then later turn out not to be spammers.
15:16:32 <oerjan> maybe they're doing it for the skins.
15:19:54 <boily> maybe it's all the people who *could* be writing a BF derivative, but actively aren't.
15:20:53 <int-e> that's a great idea for a New Year's resolution...
15:21:06 <int-e> ...to not make a BF derivative.
15:22:27 <oerjan> except that most new year's resolutions fail, i hear.
15:23:35 <boily> . o O ( how many layers of paint can there be for knocking on wood to remain effective? )
15:23:41 <oerjan> boily: that's unfair, you're privileged with a mapole.
15:24:27 <oerjan> . o o ( is the paint plant-based? )
15:24:34 <int-e> boily: it appears to depend on the thickness of the layers
15:27:18 <int-e> But I guess with layers as thick as mattresses, the effect of knocking will be reduced but not completely vanish at 20 layers, extrapolating from the effect of peas.
15:49:44 <izabera> until you multiply them by the speed of light squared
15:50:12 * boily thwacks izabera. 0.46 FP.
15:54:02 <HackEgo> dc: invalid option -- 'p' \ Usage: dc [OPTION] [file ...] \ -e, --expression=EXPR evaluate expression \ -f, --file=FILE evaluate contents of file \ -h, --help display this help and exit \ -V, --version output version information and exit \ \ Email bug reports to: bug-dc@gnu.org .
15:54:21 <Taneb> `dc -p "[d0!=g]sf[dlr*sr1-lfx]sg1sr10lfxlrp"
15:54:22 <HackEgo> dc: invalid option -- 'p' \ Usage: dc [OPTION] [file ...] \ -e, --expression=EXPR evaluate expression \ -f, --file=FILE evaluate contents of file \ -h, --help display this help and exit \ -V, --version output version information and exit \ \ Email bug reports to: bug-dc@gnu.org .
15:54:25 <Taneb> `dc -e "[d0!=g]sf[dlr*sr1-lfx]sg1sr10lfxlrp"
15:54:26 <HackEgo> dc: dc: '"' (042) unimplemented \ 3628800 \ '"' (042) unimplemented
15:54:35 <Taneb> `dc -e [d0!=g]sf[dlr*sr1-lfx]sg1sr10lfxlrp
15:54:42 <Taneb> I wrote a factorial program!
15:54:51 <Taneb> Also why does my brain want to use the -p flag which does not exist
15:56:07 <oerjan> the good news is it's a pbrain.
15:56:17 <oerjan> the bad news is it's also a bf derivative.
15:56:32 <izabera> oerjan: why is pbrain good news?
15:56:41 <Taneb> izabera, string theory
15:57:06 <oerjan> Taneb: ok, the not quite so bad news.
15:57:07 <izabera> i may be missing something
15:57:45 <oerjan> Taneb may be mispling something.
15:57:51 * boily gives some maple ice cream to izabera
15:58:13 <Taneb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane
16:10:53 <boily> izabera: that thing is dangerous → https://az836796.vo.msecnd.net/media/image/product/fr/medium/0005926302014.jpg
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17:16:07 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air aboe the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
17:16:35 <boily> `slwd hfs//s/aboe/above/
17:16:43 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
17:16:59 <boily> `slwd hfs//s/\bith/with/
17:17:02 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
17:17:07 <boily> fungot: what's an hfs?
17:17:07 <fungot> boily: can you receive those?
17:17:10 <rdococ> You have discovered a great banana.
17:17:13 <boily> fungot: yes, in bold read.
17:17:13 <fungot> boily: two of a kind of box were you building just the microcode?
17:17:33 <boily> fungot: no, vendors build microcode.
17:17:34 <fungot> boily: elucidation-why is for people with some knowledge of which package depends on these structures and uses their bindings to form its lexical environment.
17:17:55 <zgrep> rdococ: I thought it was merely average.
17:17:58 <boily> rdococ: is it ripe? can you carve a canoe out of it? whence it came from? is the tree great?
17:18:25 <rdococ> Yes to all four questions.
17:20:10 * boily knocks on the banana tree.
17:20:28 <rdococ> The tree asks "Who's there?"
17:21:16 <zgrep> The squirrel replies "Perhaps.".
17:21:30 <oerjan> `slwd hfs//s/bottem/bottom/
17:21:34 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottomless pits mark the surface.
17:23:13 <HackEgo> You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottomless pits mark the surface.
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17:27:14 <zgrep> `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `??????????????????????????????????
17:27:16 <HackEgo> `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `??????????????????????????????????? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:27:58 <rdococ> what about ¯\(°_o)/¯?
17:28:04 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:28:24 <boily> ha ha! didn't know about that one.
17:28:28 * zgrep . o O ( If ? is wisdow, is ¿ tomfoolery? )
17:28:51 <HackEgo> .lagelli eb dluohs tub ,looc era staC
17:29:32 <HackEgo> C++ is an attempt to improve upon C. The only thing it actually improved was memory management, and it made everything else worse.
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17:30:33 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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17:33:42 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
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17:59:18 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
17:59:32 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
18:00:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F%3F
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18:32:19 * boily got his ass served by a Yeti...
18:33:05 <boily> just lost a game of One Deck Dungeon. I got curbstomped into the floor as thin as a very thin pancake.
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19:17:56 <zzo38> How does that game work?
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20:05:17 <zzo38> XGetPixel does not make it slow, it seems.
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21:03:28 <quintopia> helloily? what is a one deck dungeon?
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21:14:42 <Zarutian> quintopia: a dungeon that has only one sun deck ;-)
21:15:18 <quintopia> oh. well thats still more than the usual zero sun decks.
21:15:37 <alercah> quintopia: one deck dungeon is a roguelike card game
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23:21:08 <wob_jonas> I'm reading the rules of the post. It says that since my package is 0.40 m long, I can't post it as a mail domestically, only as a package, but I can post it as a mail abroad. That seems strange at first, until you realize that international mail is so expensive that it costs significantly more than a domestic package, unless it's impossibly ligh
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23:33:24 <wob_jonas> At least they do have very specific written rules for everything, if you look enough at their huge mazelike website.
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23:48:43 <FireFly> sounds a lot like our postal service, too
23:48:56 <FireFly> it's also pretty expensive..
23:54:09 <oerjan> <boily> just lost a game of One Deck Dungeon. I got curbstomped into the floor as thin as a very thin pancake. <-- sounds like a crêpy experience.
23:55:04 <oerjan> since when does boily idle
00:03:03 <wob_jonas> I'd like a program where if I input the size, weight, destination, and extra services I need for my package, it tells me the cheapest way to buy delivery from the post, because sometimes there are like six different possibilities you have to check.
00:03:54 <wob_jonas> There's a choice that is worth for very small but heavy packages, such as small booklets.
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02:37:33 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: is that option also worth it for shipping lead (the metal)?
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03:35:35 <boily> hellørjan! I wasn't idling. la la la la la ♪
03:36:55 <boily> also, can I wobble jonas too?
03:42:36 <Zarutian> `learn Flabberghast is the recurring hunting one gets after too indulgent feast where one partook too liberaly
03:42:45 <HackEgo> Learned 'flabberghast': Flabberghast is the recurring hunting one gets after too indulgent feast where one partook too liberaly
03:44:22 <boily> . o O ( look at my horse, my horse is amazing ♪ )
03:47:27 <Zarutian> `learn Maze is so A-Maze-ing that you can not find the exit easily. Truely an labyrithn of limtlessness.
03:47:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'maze': Maze is so A-Maze-ing that you can not find the exit easily. Truely an labyrithn of limtlessness.
03:47:46 * oerjan thinks Zarutian needs a spell checker.
03:48:40 <Zarutian> `learn Maze is so A-Maze-ing that you can not find the exit easily. Truely an labyrithn of limitlessness.
03:48:49 <HackEgo> Relearned 'maze': Maze is so A-Maze-ing that you can not find the exit easily. Truely an labyrithn of limitlessness.
03:50:37 <Zarutian> `learn Tab is both a computer keyboard key and a soda pop brand.
03:50:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'tab': Tab is both a computer keyboard key and a soda pop brand.
03:51:04 <oerjan> boily: how you can you wobble him when you're as flat as a pancake tmns also you must be idling because you aren't mapoling.
03:51:59 <boily> oerjan: point. point.
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03:53:53 <HackEgo> philosophy//Philosophy is at the root of everything.
03:54:28 <boily> `slwd philosophy//s/\./ that is not parenthetical./
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03:54:32 <HackEgo> philosophy//Philosophy is at the root of everything that is not parenthetical.
03:54:36 <Zarutian> `learn Advertisement starts: have you heard about this hip and froopy 'net place called #esoteric? It is on freenode. Brought to you by The Board of Timeskewed Advertiesements.
03:54:39 <HackEgo> Learned 'advertisement': Advertisement starts: have you heard about this hip and froopy 'net place called #esoteric? It is on freenode. Brought to you by The Board of Timeskewed Advertiesements.
03:55:49 * oerjan refrains from judgement. AUM.
03:58:17 <Zarutian> `learn Auction is going once... going twice... gone to the cowled entity in the corner for six trillion zorkmids.
03:58:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'auction': Auction is going once... going twice... gone to the cowled entity in the corner for six trillion zorkmids.
03:58:43 * oerjan should perhaps not refrain from eating. everything in moderation, as the Buddha approximately said.
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04:00:18 * oerjan wonders if these are all references to something
04:01:45 <Zarutian> `learn reference is dangling, sorry.
04:01:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'reference': reference is dangling, sorry.
04:02:42 <lambdabot> oerjan said 12h 54m 34s ago: <tswett> I don't think there's any harm in saying that one undefined expression is equal to another... is there? <-- the question is whether you can prove something
04:02:43 <lambdabot> false about defined stuff by going through undefined intermediates. e.g. if you allow 0/0 = a because the left side is undefined...
04:02:43 <lambdabot> oerjan said 12h 50m 59s ago: what's more, because your mind is predisposed to ignore options that are not supposed to be used, it's easy to miss cases when convincing yourself your system is
04:04:02 <Zarutian> oerjan: naah, just me decreasing my wisdom and increasing HackEgos
04:04:38 <tswett> oerjan: well, that's why I said "that one undefined expression is equal to another". I'd try to be careful only to allow 0/0 = a in cases where the RHS is also an undefined expression.
04:04:50 <zzo38> What distortions have I missed? I think I missed perspective distortion, but I would want to know how that should be implemented, and I should also need an improved resampling method that is useful for larger or smaller or rotated and regardless of that, somehow.
04:05:06 <tswett> I'm thinking, though, maybe I should exclude "junk" cases like this even if they do seem harmless.
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04:05:54 <tswett> If it's possible to make some judgements, but not others, about undefined stuff, that kind of pollutes the system.
04:13:06 <boily> oerjan: are you vegetarian?
04:17:54 <\oren\> a recruiter from blody serbia?
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04:34:28 <boily> `relcome LoboVerde
04:34:37 <HackEgo> LoboVerde: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:36:52 <HackEgo> HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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05:17:42 <\oren\> hmm, when did QC stop being about indie music culture and start being about transhumanism?
05:20:00 <pikhq> \oren\: Long long ago.
05:56:50 <rdococ> Oi wil naw spik Ingli$ in ae difr'nt wae
05:58:34 <zzo38> What time zone has time as a complex number?
05:59:23 <alercah> `addquote <zzo38> What time zone has time as a complex number?
05:59:33 <HackEgo> 1304) <zzo38> What time zone has time as a complex number?
05:59:35 <rdococ> I live in the +i time zone
05:59:56 <rdococ> at the moment it's nearing i+6:00
06:00:24 <zzo38> alercah: I mean one that isn't a real number.
06:01:10 <rdococ> so regular complex numbers are boring, what about quaternion time?
06:01:27 <rdococ> it's 4+3i+5j+8k:00 in the morning.
06:10:53 <zzo38> Now I added the support for custom character mapping into ff-text so that for example you can use this picture http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/images/font.gif or you can use chess icons
06:14:14 <zzo38> You can then use ff-composite to place the chess icons on the background of chess board.
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06:19:45 <zzo38> You can write the sed program to convert FEN into the command-line arguments (with the `...` shell operator) for use with ff-text: s/1/-/g;s/2/--/g;s/3/---/g;s/4/----/g;s/5/-----/g;s/6/------/g;s/7/--------/g;s./. .g
06:20:01 <zzo38> (It doesn't change the 8 but it is unnecessary.)
06:31:11 <zzo38> What is the largest possible number of legal moves in any one position in chess?
06:35:11 <alercah> zzo38: some quick research shows that the largest example someone has found without promotion is 181, with is 218
06:35:34 <alercah> the most in an actual game is 79 for one side
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06:39:18 <rdococ> assuming condition { stuff }
06:40:05 <Calcaware> How do I get one of my languages on the esolang wiki?
06:40:21 <zzo38> Calcaware: You create an account and then follow the instructions it tell you to do so.
06:41:01 <Calcaware> Thank you. I didn't see the options outside of the home page like most sites.
06:42:33 <zzo38> rdococ: Maybe optimize the program to cause undefined behaviours if the condition is not true
06:43:14 <zzo38> If the largest is 218 then it mean that the move recording can fit one byte per move. But you may even use smaller number of bits, and possibly to use Huffman codes biased by the opening books maybe. We can see, what way will work better?
06:44:26 <rdococ> assuming zzo38 > 38 { say hello }
06:45:46 <Calcaware> Which number does this Befunge code output: <code>9860088716>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@</code> I keep getting 374426600. Apparently I am wrong.
06:48:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Calcaware * New user account
06:49:02 <Calcaware> Nevermind. After a tweak I got "267308324".
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07:03:11 <rdococ> wonder how the assuming structure would work with different conditional functions.
07:04:57 <zzo38> To do what I mentioned, GCC does have __builtin_unreachable(), although apparently there is some bugs in it.
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07:09:27 <rdococ> assuming I can make a programming language out of the assuming construct, I assume that I will most definitely hope that it is good, or so I assume.
07:11:10 <zzo38> Well, you can try.
07:11:43 <zzo38> What I think is that it should be made so that for example even if you write SELECT * FROM CARDS ORDER BY RANDOM() LIMIT 1; then it can automatically convert your query into the request for Gatherer's "random card" function.
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07:21:20 <zzo38> Select a few random cards from Gatherer other than conventional basic lands or Un-cards and then try to make up a puzzle out of them.
07:27:07 <rdococ> have no ideas for Assume
07:27:49 <zzo38> I don't know either, other than what I mentioned.
07:33:28 <zzo38> "You eat with your left hand!" - Zeux Agem to his evil clone
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07:40:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50607&oldid=43968 * Rdococ * (+38) /* Structure */ dasdas
07:51:02 <shachaf> Does Zeux Agem eat with his left hand too?
07:59:08 <shachaf> Well, people may be likely to eat with the same hand as their clones.
08:01:40 <zzo38> But, it is a mirror clone.
08:03:13 <zzo38> Now you know, hopefully.
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09:48:48 <hppavilion[1]> [I opened this tab and saw the message JUST before rdococ highlighted me]
09:50:06 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: The esolangs page for Folder assumes the user's gender
09:50:54 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: 'This is a good thing, because cutscenes in a game can be annoying, and if the user knows what's happening, he can skip them. '
09:51:26 <rdococ> "the user" here refers to a male figure... doesn't mean it doesn't apply to females too
09:52:01 <rdococ> sexist programming language? there would be "male" and "female" objects, and some operations would be exclusive to either
09:54:06 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Don't format. Formatting is annoying and nobody ever uses it (except in wisdom)
09:54:19 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: (1) Take folder, which is good for simple tbRPGs
09:54:22 <rdococ> when did I format anything?
09:54:48 <rdococ> except when I wiped the HDD and installed Debian, but how is that your business?
09:54:49 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: (2) Generalize it to be better for more complicated tbRPGs
09:55:07 <rdococ> (3) funnily this is the idea for my new language
09:55:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: (3) Use the generalized form of Folder and map it back into a normal folder tree on a normal computer
09:55:41 <rdococ> depends how you generalize it tho.
09:56:09 <rdococ> if you say, give a Folder derivative variables you'd end up with a higher computational class
09:56:10 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Yeah, but still. Absurdly complicated Folder variant as normal directory navigation
09:56:27 <rdococ> idk how I'd do that...
09:56:52 * rdococ gives hppavilion[1] special permission to perform the steps he enumerated
09:57:17 <rdococ> my idea of generalizing Folder is adding some form of numerical variable.
09:57:36 <rdococ> that, would increase the computational class from finite state machine to at least a push down automata.
09:58:12 <rdococ> we can't have that but I'll keep it in mind as a more useful derivative of Folder.
09:58:40 <hppavilion[1]> An FSA with two unbounded nonnegative integers that can be INC'd or DEC'd at each step, but where trying to DEC a 0 register changes which state you go to next, is TC
09:59:13 <rdococ> okay wow so my generalized Folder is TC
10:00:30 <rdococ> what is your idea for a generalised non-TC Folder?
10:01:35 <hppavilion[1]> The benadryl is kicking in, and I'll be asleep soon
11:53:53 <rdococ> assuming (x > 3) { x = 2 }
11:54:02 <rdococ> what would happen if x <= 3? error?
11:58:45 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], have the drugs worn off yet?
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15:14:04 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
15:14:11 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not.
15:15:02 <oerjan> especially when it's been idle for a while. presumably a little gnome has to carry it out from storage.
15:15:33 <oerjan> you don't give that much of a budapest vibe.
15:16:18 <oerjan> well you're cloaked, so i can't easily check.
15:16:35 <rdococ> I should probably change that /octagonfly to a /rdococ
15:16:50 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. Él aspira a ser más incomprensible que esta sabiduría.
15:17:00 <oerjan> `learn_append rdococ Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
15:17:07 <HackEgo> Learned 'rdococ': rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
15:17:43 <oerjan> the logs did, however, give me a different vibe hth
15:18:15 <oerjan> rdococ: you seem to say "bored" a lot lately.
15:18:33 <rdococ> how is it boily's fault tho
15:18:40 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
15:19:50 <oerjan> the fireworks are starting early...
15:20:09 <oerjan> (it's traditional with an early firework for small children, but still...)
15:20:47 * oerjan thinks he may have miscountabled that sentence.
15:21:51 <oerjan> (it's only 16:21 here)
15:22:31 <oerjan> rdococ: (he's writing dentistry software. you may or may not think that's an improvement.)
15:23:14 <oerjan> Vorpal is in a similar range of work.
15:23:20 <HackEgo> Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
15:46:08 * oerjan upvotes today's mezzacotta for sheer absurd incoherence.
15:46:31 <oerjan> fungot: read and learn!
15:46:32 <fungot> oerjan: i'd advise against teaching snurkly anything important, though; important stuff should be described where it's used
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15:47:11 <oerjan> fungot: no, no, that is _far_ too coherent
15:47:11 <fungot> oerjan: i fnord a fnord. he's using the age old trick for feeding a function to make the ccbi debugger, what is
15:47:26 <oerjan> fungot: ok a bit better
15:47:27 <fungot> oerjan: you can't make money selling modifications... balance. i'd think " no" checked and a ten pound block of iron. if
15:47:49 <fungot> oerjan: evidently not. in a bad mood today.
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16:13:12 <int-e> perfect timing for the rate limit to kick in, too
16:14:06 <boily> int-ello, hellœrjan.
16:16:27 <boily> is that a special NYE greeting?
16:19:01 <oerjan> (alas, it's one i made up, not something norwegians usually distinguish.)
16:21:29 <boily> bonne veille du jour de l'oerjan, I guess!
16:24:49 <rdococ> English should use æ more.
16:25:13 <rdococ> It would mæk more sense than the a_e rule.
16:27:13 * oerjan builds a fence around the spelling reformers, with a sign "DO NOT FEED"
16:31:54 * rdococ breaks the fence with careful application of communism
16:32:39 * oerjan paralyzes rdococ by explaining the mess that is russian spelling.
16:33:08 * rdococ breaks the paralysis by mentioning Russian swear words
16:34:03 * boily mapoles rdococ back into the enclosure
16:34:14 <boily> rdococ: wait. are you Russian?
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16:36:10 <rdococ> if I am russian then Winders is Linux
16:37:00 * rdococ realizes boily is trying to spread boredom again
16:44:12 <oerjan> ((c)S(o)~^(c )S~:)((rd)S(o)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:44:17 <oerjan> ^ul ((c)S(o)~^(c )S~:)((rd)S(o)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:44:17 <fungot> rdocooc rdoococ rdocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdoocooc rdococ rdoococ rdocooc rdoococ rdoococ rdocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdocooc rdococ rdoococ rdoocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdoococ rdocooc rdococ rdoocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdoocooc rdococ rdoococ rdocooc rdocooc rdoococ rdoococ rdocooc rdoo ...too much output!
16:46:57 <rdococ> ^ul ((j)S(r)~^(c )S~:)((oe)S(a)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:46:57 <fungot> oeajrrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeaajrrc oeajrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrc oeaajrc oeaajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrc oeaajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeaajrrc oeajrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeajrrc oeaajrc oeaajrc oeajrrc oeaa ...too much output!
16:47:38 <rdococ> k one more try so I don't spam
16:47:39 <rdococ> ^ul ((j)S(a)~^(c )S~:)((oe)S(r)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*r((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**r((((:SS)~^)~r*^)~r*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(r(:^)*~r(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:47:59 <rdococ> ^ul ((j)S(a)~^(c )S~:)((oe)S(r)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*r((((S)~^)~r*^)~r*^~:)~*^~)(:**r((((:SS)~^)~r*^)~r*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(r(:^)*~r(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:48:23 <oerjan> you probably changed something wasn't just an output string...
16:48:35 <rdococ> what language even is that?
16:49:13 <rdococ> what about a language where the only logical operation is material implication
16:49:13 * Sgeo downloads Crisis General Midi
16:49:52 <oerjan> material is boring. with intuitionistic implication you can do that and still have it PSPACE-complete hth
16:53:27 <oerjan> aka the problem "is this proposition, using just variables and implication, an intuitionistic theorem?" is PSPACE-complete.
16:53:51 <oerjan> (i guess with material you get co-NP-complete.)
16:56:02 <oerjan> rdococ: a is in actual underload command, but r is not, so changing it to r in other places than where it's used just as a string gives an error.
16:57:39 <rdococ> ^ul ((j)S(r)~^(c )S~:)((oe)S(a)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(r(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:57:39 <fungot> oeajrrc oeaa ...bad insn!
16:57:54 <rdococ> ^ul ((j)S(r)~^(c )S~:)((oe)S(r)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:57:54 <fungot> oerjrrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerrjrrc oerjrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrc oerrjrc oerrjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrc oerrjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerrjrrc oerjrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerjrrc oerrjrc oerrjrc oerjrrc oerr ...too much output!
16:58:17 <rdococ> ^ul ((j)S(a)~^(n )S~:)((oe)S(r)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
16:58:18 <fungot> oerjaan oerrjan oerjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerrjaan oerjan oerrjan oerjaan oerrjan oerrjan oerjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerjaan oerjan oerrjan oerrjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerrjan oerjaan oerjan oerrjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerrjaan oerjan oerrjan oerjaan oerjaan oerrjan oerrjan oerjaan oerr ...too much output!
16:59:29 <rdococ> the letters were all in parentheses
16:59:36 <oerjan> (now recognize the pattern *MWAHAHAHA*)
17:00:10 <rdococ> ^ul ((a)S(h)~^(n )S~:)((mw)S(h)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
17:00:10 <fungot> mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhhahhn mwhahn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahn mwhhahn mwhhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahn mwhhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhhahhn mwhahn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhahhn mwhhahn mwhhahn mwhahhn mwhh ...too much output!
17:00:23 <oerjan> although technically it _would_ be possible to have (a) and getting that a run as an instruction, that program doesn't do it.
17:00:25 <rdococ> ^ul ((a)S(h)~^(a )S~:)((mw)S(h)~^~:):(S)~^(:SS)~^(*a((((S)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~)(:**a((((:SS)~^)~a*^)~a*^~:)~*^~):(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^
17:00:26 <fungot> mwhahha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhhahha mwhaha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhaha mwhhaha mwhhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhaha mwhhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhhahha mwhaha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhahha mwhhaha mwhhaha mwhahha mwhh ...too much output!
17:00:26 <boily> fungot mwhahhning is disturbing.
17:00:26 <fungot> boily: don't think of me as that marine. that is
17:00:55 <rdococ> lol... does it work in pm so I don't spam the channel?
17:01:01 <rdococ> tho it might be... a little late for that :p
17:01:46 <fungot> Zarutian: i've never used it.
17:02:00 <oerjan> (you'll note there's an (S) there, and _that_ S is not printed.)
17:02:55 <oerjan> it does work in private
17:03:38 <fungot> Zarutian: i do know how to fnord the higher powers of scheme.
17:03:56 <oerjan> . o O ( is Zarutian making a conlang )
17:04:17 <Zarutian> I here I thought I could get fungot to look the sane conversation partner
17:04:17 <fungot> Zarutian: in windows, or encouraging someone else to successfully join the list just to vote, ne? -g))
17:04:34 <oerjan> Zarutian: you seem to have succeeded
17:05:02 <Zarutian> I just used that Sims utterence generator
17:06:00 <Zarutian> I could try using an politican word salat next on fungot
17:07:05 <Zarutian> fungot: do you recommend that new refumegator?
17:08:24 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
17:08:37 <fungot> oerjan: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, members of the union.
17:09:00 <rdococ> if t > 17:09 GMT then my speech will be entirely logical
17:09:04 <Zarutian> fungot: I profusely table that recommendation
17:09:05 <fungot> Zarutian: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, first of all, i would just like to thank our rapporteur. we had the schengen agreement into the treaty of nice does not in any way benefit competition. finally, half a million are european the equivalent of a pig in a poke. this is why, mr president, it is fortunate that some members may have received queries from ngos on funding and specifically core funding. i cannot make referenc
17:10:10 <Zarutian> fungot: that is pretty much a crackpot notation!
17:10:10 <fungot> Zarutian: the commission takes the view that it is crucial for the safety of ships and boats essential. i do not support the amendment which a number of times by commissioner lamy in the course of the next intergovernmental conference.
17:12:29 <fungot> Zarutian: the acquisition or loss of interest as soon as it is in general up to the challenge.
17:14:34 <rdococ> fungot: you're a fun got
17:14:35 <fungot> rdococ: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, i have a guinea pig. the version of the green group. i would like to see your imposing figure presiding over the house, and a series of consequences for parliament' s internal transport system and thereby play a crucial role to play, particularly as the commission originally proposed. i am in the process of implementing article 13 through the package of practical measure
17:16:18 <oerjan> that last one does sound a bit evil.
17:17:28 <Zarutian> oerjan: would be funny if was said by a Bond villian
17:18:00 <Zarutian> because nobody know what it exactly it means but it sounds onimous
17:19:13 <fungot> Zarutian: mr president, i feel that the decision taken by the fisheries policy, which leads to the fnord criteria differ from country to country. if these amendments were adopted, our group thinks that things can always be improved.
17:20:12 <oerjan> fungot: i'm not sure "can always be improved" is the right level to aim at
17:20:12 <fungot> oerjan: mr president, i am going to present those which i have taken account of the problems which the european parliament, with a view to carrying out justice in the courts in the normal procedure.
17:21:10 <fungot> Zarutian: the european commission shares parliament's point of view, because it is one of the most dynamic knowledge-based economy in the various agreements mean, and will continue to report to it on the internet is a completely new element. hence, my questions are quite specific. first, and then perhaps to be aware of this, particularly amendments nos 2 and 4 and their impact, and this has been the important work done by the g
17:22:35 <Zarutian> what the hell does "dynamic knowledge-based economy" mean?
17:24:07 <oerjan> it means it consists entirely of shuffling big data around hth
17:24:15 <boily> exchanging information for money from traveling people?
17:24:50 <fungot> Zarutian: mr president, that in the oecd's draft multilateral agreement on international investments on which a constitutional state must be able to see their italian cousins. tourism brings the peoples of the european project itself. as well as polluting the air.
17:25:41 <fungot> boily: thank you, mr barroso, i believe that, where member states should already have official catalogues of areas in need of international protection takes place. i regret to say i shall be putting forward proposals for directives that are passed. nevertheless, certain member states.
17:26:31 <fungot> Zarutian: french and european citizens generally are right to do so in the uk and the socialists. this is why we do not mix the message with regard to the reform of the commission, under the present financial provision is a very topical problem here, unfortunately, in abandonment. in some cases, their lives.
17:26:42 <fungot> rdococ: i congratulate fnord ghilardotti on the content of the report adopted had been amended to include nuclear fuel and over 100 tonnes of separated plutonium are needed to help the palestinian people, free settlements and end operations directed against palestinian infrastructure. they also have the responsibility that they must invent a new, minimum and acceptable european norm for the management of the capital market on i
17:26:46 <fungot> oerjan: mr president, it is high time that the international criminal tribunal for yugoslavia in absolute secrecy, the deputy vice-president of the socialist group wants a clear, unambiguous indication of where decisions can be made fnord and the mediterranean.
17:28:07 <fungot> Zarutian: my special thanks to the commission that manages this money, that the directory be withdrawn and i would hope that in years to come. lastly, my group welcomes strongly that emphasis. a second group of products, so be it.
17:28:31 <oerjan> . o O ( i'm sure the palestinian people could do a _lot_ with 100 tonnes of separated plutonium )
17:29:33 <fungot> Zarutian: madam president, mr carnero gonzález was present in person and there that their concerns can most fully be met.
17:30:01 <fungot> Zarutian: mr president, i should say, in the days that remain to be fnord.
17:31:10 <HackEgo> The password of the month is lutefisk
17:31:19 <boily> can't argue with a password like that.
17:32:31 <fungot> rdococ: mr president, i should like to point out on a person incapable of giving their informed consent. i would appeal to you to bear with me.
17:32:49 <rdococ> informed consent, interesting
17:33:35 <oerjan> obviously part of a debate to ban serving lutefisk to children.
17:33:35 <Zarutian> does it mean that there is something like uninformed consent?
17:33:56 <rdococ> what does "informed" consent mean, first of all?
17:34:56 <oerjan> that you know the likely consequences of what you're consenting to?
17:35:10 <rdococ> so uninformed consent would be that you don't know the consequences.
17:35:29 <Zarutian> which is pretty much that happens at ballots?
17:36:05 <rdococ> uninformed consent is a popular form of manipulation.
17:36:23 <rdococ> but a person incapable of giving informed consent could mean one of two things.
17:36:42 <rdococ> 1. a person who wouldn't give consent if informed of the consequences, thus they have to be manipulated
17:37:05 <rdococ> 2. a person who can't be informed, thus they can't possibly not be manipulated if they are forced to vote
17:40:06 <fungot> Zarutian: the fnord title of the community programmes enable the necessary adjustments to budget line fnord, amendment no 11. however, these new technologies and to know what the penalties are in the process and procedures to cover that eventuality. it is therefore essential to enforce those rights, all human rights and minority rights, including the united states
17:40:44 <Zarutian> united states as minority rights, inresting idea that
17:44:09 <fungot> Zarutian: mr president, i welcome the ombudsman's suggestion that all remedies open to individuals should be submitted to parliament. i believe that, up to the representatives of the youth associations from different countries, with whom i have fnord my notes, i am in full agreement with mr harbour. of course, we must change the common agricultural policy, on the other hand, consider lifting the arms embargo against china. at a
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17:52:11 <boily> Phantom__Helloover.
17:54:34 * Zarutian looks around and decides there enough room, takes out his unnerver for service.
17:56:18 * Zarutian first enlarges the pocket dimension aperture, takes out the compressed hyper volcano, the super conducting magnets and the bivalve.
17:57:36 <Zarutian> you are going to ask about the bivalve arent you?
17:57:57 <oerjan> hey no volcano on my lawn!
17:59:30 * Zarutian takes out a polishing cloth and Shine'n'shine and starts to polish the inside of the pocket dimension membrane
18:00:14 <fizzie> fungot: Do you think United Kingdom made the right decision to leave?
18:00:14 <fungot> fizzie: madam president, i would like to thank the environment committee and in particular about unemployment. on the other over eur 1 billion. this situation requires us to seek agreement with member states, which does constitute real progress.
18:00:24 * Zarutian unties an topological knot and continues the polishing.
18:01:28 <fizzie> There's a bit of a length problem with this fungot style, sometimes it gets cut off at the end.
18:01:28 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, i am fed up with pious assurances from bnfl and the arrogance of someone who refuses to testify, because these operations were launched and implemented in the council and the commission shares our view.
18:01:34 <oerjan> . o O ( i think oyster clear of the bivalve )
18:02:26 * Zarutian finishes with the polishing and puts the compress hyper volcano back in
18:02:55 * oerjan sweeps up the ash to use as fertilizer
18:03:12 <Zarutian> oerjan: you might want to start cutting it more frequently, the lawn that is
18:03:36 <oerjan> um, the moons eat most of the grass anyway.
18:03:47 * Zarutian puts back in the super conducting magnets
18:05:31 * Zarutian uses the bivalve to realign them, while keeping clear of one of its taps
18:06:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Noahsolo * New user account
18:07:00 * Zarutian leaves it in and deembiggens the pocket dimension aperture back to the previous size
18:08:49 * rdococ watches as confusing science things happen
18:09:47 * Zarutian shakes the unnerver a bit to homogenise the freezingly molten lava and test fires. The result is an forum troll garden gnome with a "Kjósið xB" political badge on its lapel.
18:10:13 * rdococ starts up the Casimir vacuum that powers the Alcubierre drive on his magical space thingy.
18:10:43 <Zarutian> rdococ: and you think boilys mapole makes any more sense?
18:10:56 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
18:11:10 <rdococ> so a weapon built from maple.
18:12:20 * rdococ sets up the delicate balance of chemicals in the core that enables the tachyonic communication device.
18:12:43 -!- astoxenous has joined.
18:12:55 * Zarutian hands rdococ a engineering tricorder and a hyperspanner.
18:13:09 * rdococ looks in confusion at the two unusual objects.
18:13:44 <Zarutian> unusual? they are pretty common in SciFi parts
18:13:45 * rdococ engages the genetic lifeform and disk operating system for information on them.
18:14:14 <rdococ> <GLaDOS!#esoteric> In the fictional Star Trek universe, a tricorder is a multifunction hand-held device used for sensor scanning, data analysis, and recording data.
18:14:16 * Zarutian powers up his steam punk fridge
18:14:43 <rdococ> <GLaDOS!#esoteric> Also known as, a plot device.
18:15:28 <rdococ> <GLaDOS!#esoteric> A hyperspanner was an adaptable multipurpose engineering tool carried aboard starships. Its uses included repairing communication systems, relinking and bypassing the circuit boards of electrical systems.
18:16:11 <rdococ> <GLaDOS!#esoteric> Neurotoxins are toxins that are poisonous or destructive to nerve tissue (causing neurotoxicity). Neurotoxins are an extensive class of exogenous chemical neurological insults that can adversely affect function in both developing and mature nervous tissue.
18:18:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50608&oldid=50604 * Noahsolo * (+187) /* Introductions */
18:18:54 * rdococ pings Zarutian until he comes back
18:20:51 * oerjan fires up his technobabble disintegrator to clean up this place
18:21:42 * rdococ helps oerjan with his task using a technobubble recycling literary device to convert the technobabble into harder speculative fiction.
18:22:24 -!- astoxenous has quit (Quit: Page closed).
18:24:16 * oerjan looks satisfied on the resulting heap of dust.
18:25:33 * rdococ looks pleased with the resulting speculative fiction.
18:30:02 * rdococ pings oerjan because boily is spreading boredom again, and rdococ wants to ping as many people as possible
18:30:20 <boily> I'm playing crawl :D
18:36:42 * rdococ will now make up esoteric technobabble
18:36:49 <rdococ> s/technobabble/speculative fiction
18:37:37 * rdococ engages the tachyonic generators
18:44:48 -!- rdococ has quit (Changing host).
18:44:48 -!- rdococ has joined.
18:53:10 <rdococ> I am surprised you got Budapest from my last IP
19:02:31 * rdococ asks oerjan to kindly ask if he doesn't want to be pinged
19:03:07 <oerjan> please don't ping me just to ping twh
19:09:55 <oerjan> it means that i'm an introvert, and asking me for my attention without giving a reason actually repulses me hth
19:10:08 <oerjan> now about to heat pizza ->
19:11:39 <shachaf> What about pinging you in the process of updating your wisdom entry?
19:12:12 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:14:06 <shachaf> `` cwlprits $(echo oerjän | sed 's.̈..') | tr ' ' '\n' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
19:14:18 <HackEgo> 76 shachäf 29 oerjän 7 boil̈y 5 noloveinwaikik̈i 1 nitïa 1 int-̈e
19:14:28 -!- heroux has joined.
19:16:06 <shachaf> `mkx bin/dedot//print_args_or_input "$2' | sed 's.̈..'
19:16:47 <shachaf> `` cwlprits $(echo passwörd | sed 's.̈..') | tr ' ' '\n' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
19:17:04 <HackEgo> 14 oerjän 2 shachäf 2 int-̈e 1 mroman̈_ 1 mromän 1 gameman̈j
19:17:05 <shachaf> `` cwlprits $(echo shachäf | sed 's.̈..') | tr ' ' '\n' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
19:17:14 <HackEgo> 5 oerjän 3 shachäf 2 mrhmous̈e 2 Elronn̈d 2 boil̈y 1 nitïa 1 ellioẗt
19:17:18 <shachaf> Hmm, I didn't actually use dedot.
19:17:57 <HackEgo> bin/dedot//print_args_or_input "$2' | sed 's.̈..g'
19:17:59 <shachaf> `` cwlprits $(dedot böïly) | tr ' ' '\n' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
19:18:13 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/dedot: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ /hackenv/bin/dedot: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file \ 1258 oerjän 515 shachäf 261 b_jonäs 230 boil̈y 152 int-̈e 131 hppavilion[1̈] 96 tsweẗt 64 mromän 55 Tanëb 52 ellioẗt 46 Zarutiän 38 GreyKnigḧt 34 Phantom_Hoovër 32 mroman̈_ 27 Rouj
19:18:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
19:19:03 <HackEgo> bin/dedot//print_args_or_input "$@" | sed 's.̈..g'
19:19:05 <shachaf> `` cwlprits $(dedot böïly) | tr ' ' '\n' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs
19:19:14 <HackEgo> 9 oerjän 5 boil̈y 1 shachäf 1 Rouj̈o 1 olsnër 1 Jafët 1 int-̈e
19:40:24 <oerjan> <shachaf> What about pinging you in the process of updating your wisdom entry? <-- ACCEPTABLE
19:41:27 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
19:49:07 <oerjan> (also, irssi doesn't really ping me unless it's the first word of the line.)
19:49:35 <oerjan> well, technically it never pings, as i've turned off the bell too.
19:49:53 <oerjan> but it does sometimes add some color.
19:54:25 <shachaf> oerjan: Why don't you /hilight oerjan?
19:54:39 <shachaf> I don't like the default irssi behavior.
19:56:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aperture]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50609&oldid=44766 * Rdococ * (-424) wth
19:57:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50610&oldid=50322 * Rdococ * (-2)
19:58:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50611&oldid=50321 * Rdococ * (-249)
19:59:25 <oerjan> shachaf: well it doesn't really make a difference to my noticing it...
20:06:09 <Taneb> Time for a great New Year's tradition
20:06:15 <Taneb> Staying in and revising for my exams
20:07:14 <oerjan> i'll join you on the staying in, probably.
20:09:00 <Taneb> Algebraic Geometry
20:09:17 <shachaf> First you invented it and now you're revising it?
20:10:37 <oerjan> rdococ: it's magic, i believe. (also, i never learned it.)
20:11:10 <HackEgo> tswett is livin' it up with the penguins. He's a title under the cruxite in the lathe.
20:11:12 <HackEgo> Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human.
20:11:12 <Taneb> shachaf, I may have invented it, but that does not mean I know what it is
20:11:37 <oerjan> `slwd warrigal/s/S/It s/
20:11:39 <shachaf> the joke is that "revising" means something like "editing" here
20:11:47 <oerjan> `slwd warrigal//s/S/It s/
20:11:51 <HackEgo> warrigal//Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. It sometimes pretends to be a human.
20:11:53 <shachaf> but you're even better at misunderstanding than i am tdnh
20:12:02 <HackEgo> the rules of wisdom? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:12:34 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
20:12:37 <HackEgo> algebraic geometry? ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:12:52 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
20:13:03 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
20:13:13 <oerjan> (i did, however, learn algebraic topology, which is also magic.)
20:13:17 <HackEgo> Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
20:13:34 <Taneb> oerjan, I think more or less all maths that begin with "Algebraic" are magic
20:14:03 <rdococ> what?! HackEgo doesn't know oerjan and ørjan's secret third cousin ith removed?!
20:14:05 <tswett> So I realized the other day that the way I would define a triangle is very much unlike the way most people would define a triangle.
20:14:16 <tswett> Most people would say something like: it's a shape with three sides and three angles.
20:14:31 <tswett> And I'm like: no, dude, a triangle is the union of three line segments any two of which share an endpoint but no other points.
20:14:31 <rdococ> a triangle is clearly three points
20:15:01 <Taneb> tswett, wouldn't three lines meeting at a point satisfy that
20:15:47 <rdococ> a triangle is a union of three points any two of which form a line
20:16:09 <oerjan> `le/rn algebraic geometry//Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
20:16:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'algebraic geometry': Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
20:16:26 <rdococ> you mean tanebvent it, right?
20:16:27 <tswett> A triangle is the union of three line segments each of which shares an endpoint, but no other points, with each of the others.
20:16:56 <rdococ> that still sounds like three lines meeting at a point would satisfy it
20:18:18 <tswett> Man, I liked these definitions.
20:18:40 <tswett> They were perfectly good definitions until you came along and destroyed them.
20:19:15 <Taneb> Oho, I rememeber the lecture we did this theorem
20:19:40 <Taneb> The Nullstellensatz, or, as I interjected with a translation, the Pointless Theorem
20:23:19 <tswett> A triangle is the union of three line segments, each of which has an intersection with another exactly at its own endpoints.
20:28:51 <oerjan> <rdococ> you mean tanebvent it, right? <-- that would be inconsistent.
20:29:29 <oerjan> it's not used for most if any of the other tanebventions.
20:30:20 <oerjan> `` grwp -i tanebvent | grep -i -v tanebvention
20:30:31 <HackEgo> cumin:Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex. \ Binary file reflection matches \ tanebventory:The Tanebventory is big. Really big. For one thing, it contains a Hilbert hotel.
20:30:40 <rdococ> on a sphere: imagine one point, then three points diverging out of it and merging again on the antipodal point of the spherical geometry it's set in.
20:31:49 <HackEgo> 9854:2016-12-05 <boil̈y> learn Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn\'t involve sex.
20:31:52 <shachaf> i vaguely remember the context of that one
20:32:22 <shachaf> maybe it made sense in context
20:39:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:56:08 <tswett> rdococ: that's a good one.
20:56:37 <tswett> A triangle is the union of three line segments such that each endpoint is the intersection of exactly two of the line segments.
20:58:59 <rdococ> you could have a zig zagged shape on a cylinder?
20:59:37 <rdococ> ```````z,,,,,,, but wrapped around so the extremes never have an end point?
20:59:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``````z,,,,,,,: not found
21:00:38 <tswett> I think that a line segment has to have exactly two endpoints.
21:04:31 <rdococ> imagine a sphere, then two lines meeting at one point & its antipodal. now imagine a third line whose endpoints intersect each line, but not the point or its antipodal.
21:05:16 <rdococ> btw- should I ping you every time I get an answer or should I wait for you?
21:05:38 <tswett> I'm not watching this channel actively.
21:05:48 <tswett> I'm probably going to leave in a minute anyway.
21:06:19 <tswett> I thought of a counterexample for the plane.
21:06:50 <tswett> See if you can think of it! :D
21:07:55 <rdococ> okay, so each endpoint has to intersect one other line segment...
21:08:22 <rdococ> you could have two lines that completely overlap but is that allowed?
21:08:44 <tswett> It's not explicitly prohibited.
21:08:57 <rdococ> is it implicitly prohibited?
21:09:47 <tswett> I'm gonna say that "three line segments" doesn't mean "three distinct line segments". You can have duplicated line segments if you want.
21:09:58 <rdococ> ok so it's not prohibited at all.
21:10:21 <tswett> Not unless the definition somehow rules it out in some other way.
21:10:45 <rdococ> so say one duplicated line segment, then another line segment that runs between different points on both line segments.
21:11:02 <rdococ> imagine an N shape, but completely squashed into what looks like a single line segment.
21:12:49 <rdococ> you still haven't told me whether to ping you :p
21:13:39 <tswett> Up to you, sir or madam.
21:14:02 <rdococ> I'd prefer if you called me dsofdk, because I'm a zodoifo from the planet celeso.
21:36:03 <zzo38> I am adding a mail notification to my status bar now
21:53:08 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/gTKT
22:23:03 <zzo38> To count how many messages you have, it simply count how many lines start with "From ".
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23:05:46 <boily> (still 6 hours to go down here!)
23:06:23 <oerjan> well you should come to the future. it trumps everything!
23:08:53 <boily> I'm in the shachafuture already.
23:13:06 <Taneb> boily, you're living in the Tanepast
23:22:30 <lambdabot> LOWI 312250Z AUTO 26002KT 8000 NCD M06/M09 Q1030
23:22:53 <int-e> happy something, wassit, new year?
23:23:30 <lambdabot> ENVA 312250Z 25018KT 9999 -DZ BKN030 OVC038 04/M01 Q0999 RMK WIND 670FT 25013G24KT
23:24:52 <int-e> 30 minutes out their and my hands have a healthy crab color now...
23:37:11 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:51:40 <lambdabot> CYQB 312319Z 06008KT 1SM R06/P6000FT/D -SN VV007 M12/M15 A2990 RMK SN8 VIS VRB 3/4-1 1/4 SLP132
23:55:34 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:55:56 <lambdabot> EGLL 312350Z AUTO 21008KT 6000 BKN038 07/06 Q1024
23:56:22 <ais523> is everyone looking forward to the leap second?
23:56:42 <fizzie> Though I'm not sure what one usually does at a leap second party.
23:57:05 <ais523> they tend to be very short
23:57:15 <ais523> I think you just find a clock capable of showing leap seconds
23:57:20 <ais523> maybe take a screenshot
23:57:49 <int-e> . o O ( photoshop may be easier
23:58:00 <fizzie> I'm looking at this BBC thing, I wonder if they'll mention it.
23:58:15 <ais523> I'm wondering which TV stations would mention it
23:58:19 <ais523> I'm looking at time.gov
23:58:46 <int-e> google's smoothing it out
23:59:18 <ais523> my laptop's clock is almost half a second out from time.gov's time
23:59:23 <fizzie> Yeah, someone complained to me we're trying to take credit of "inventing" smoothing it up, even though UTC-SLS has been a thing for a long time now.
23:59:24 <ais523> and I'm pretty sure that's a consequence of leap second smoothing
23:59:51 <fizzie> Google's thing is a little different from UTC-SLS, though. UTC-SLS does it linear, Google does a smooth curve.