00:00:20 <ais523> actually time.gov jumped two seconds backwards at the leap second for some reason
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00:00:22 <ais523> then did :59 and :60 again
00:00:26 <ais523> I bet that was a leap second anomaly
00:00:27 <fizzie> Thanks for the time.gov tip, I used that as well.
00:00:32 <fizzie> Yeah, it was a little stuttery.
00:01:02 <ais523> at least there have been sufficiently many leap seconds in the past that the anomalies tend not to be too earthbreaking at this point
00:01:07 <ais523> happy new year everyone
00:01:16 <fizzie> BBC stream just started a 60-second countdown for me.
00:01:25 <fizzie> I don't think they'll be mentioning the leap second. :/
00:01:27 <ais523> they're running a bit slow then :-P
00:01:34 <fizzie> Well, that's probably just the stream.
00:01:44 <int-e> 2 minutes buffering delays, impressive
00:07:31 <ais523> fizzie: so what was the stream like?
00:07:57 <fizzie> Well, I mean. There was a Robbie Williams concert going on, and now there's the fireworks show near London Eye.
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00:08:58 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
00:09:08 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
00:09:33 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sun Jan 1 01:09:32 2017
00:09:43 <fizzie> I think I heard somewhere the US nuclear launch code password whatever was 0000 0000 for a decade or two earlier.
00:10:16 <oerjan> shachaf: the password month changes at UTC hth
00:10:44 <ais523> fizzie: basically they were forced to place password protection on them by an outside request but felt it'd slow down the launch and that their other protections were sufficient
00:10:47 <shachaf> doesn't it usually change whenever you remember, maybe a few days later?
00:10:52 <ais523> so the passwords were set to all-zeroes as a kind of protest
00:11:09 <ais523> oerjan: what does the password of the month actually do?
00:11:27 <shachaf> it's a kind of protest hth
00:11:32 <pikhq> fizzie: 100% accurate.
00:12:01 <pikhq> Though if you were in a position to use that password you were in a position to probably force whoever knew the password to divulge it *anyways*.
00:12:32 <zzo38> Can the command to make the missile not receive commands remotely be sent to it remotely?
00:12:56 <ais523> right, the point is that the password wasn't sufficient *by itself* and the other restrictions were probably more important
00:13:30 <ais523> and I guess all-zeroes has the advantage that if you *were* forced to divulge it, you might not be believed
00:14:08 <zzo38> Maybe you won't be believed, but someone may try it even if they do not believe you, to see whether or not it is valid.
00:14:40 <pikhq> zzo38: Remote ordering a launch is done in the US by transmitting a command to actual human beings who have physical access to the launch facilities.
00:15:01 <pikhq> i.e. there is quite literally no actual networked means of doing it.
00:15:41 <pikhq> Which IMO is probably sensible.
00:16:01 <zzo38> I read in 2600 that it can receive commands remotely, but that there is a command which can stop it from that function, but eventually that command will expire.
00:16:35 <zzo38> Of course knowing the password is not good enough anyways; you would also need to know the frequency and the protocol.
00:17:12 <pikhq> And I would *strongly* suspect this would be a cryptographically secure protocol.
00:17:46 <zzo38> Yes, I would also expect so.
00:21:29 <zzo38> They said that apparently the people whose job it is to issue the command to stop receiving commands remotely do not do their job properly, and instead will try to issue that command only one second before the previous such command expires, instead of issuing the command an hour in advance which it should be done.
00:23:35 <zzo38> But I do not actually know much about how the missiles are working. Do you know much about it though?
00:24:29 <ais523> I expect most of the details are intentionally secret
00:24:35 <ais523> I've never really tried to determine them because of that
00:24:48 <ais523> and also because there are a number of other things I'd rather be interested in
00:26:24 <zzo38> Many of the details (including the frequency) are secret, yes, although there was a series of articles in 2600 mentioning a few things about it.
00:27:08 <zzo38> Although they do have other articles about other stuff too, and there always are some interesting articles and/or letters.
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00:45:53 <zzo38> Epic Fail {UU} Instant ;; Epic
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00:54:33 <int-e> hmm, the existing epic cards don't look very good
00:57:25 <zzo38> It is a joke card. It isn't very good either
00:58:20 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, I hadn't seen Eternal Dominion
01:05:36 <int-e> maybe I'm underestimating the number of ways to play sorceries without paying their full mana cost
01:06:21 <zzo38> Which ways did you see so far?
01:06:43 <int-e> I don't really know.
01:07:02 <boily> there's convoke and cascade...
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01:11:45 <int-e> The thing is I don't really know Mt:G cards.
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01:39:54 <boily> `relcome astoxenous
01:39:57 <HackEgo> astoxenous: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:40:20 <astoxenous> The existance of a max cell value in brainfuck is not necessary to turing completeness right?
01:41:44 <oerjan> quite the opposite, with no max you need only 3 cells.
01:42:12 <oerjan> with a max you need infinitely many cells.
01:42:30 <oerjan> (although the max can be just 1)
01:44:08 <astoxenous> I was just trying to reduce my esolang to bf to prove turing completeness. and I found that the lack of a max cell value to be the only difference.
01:45:25 <boily> three shalt be the number thou shalt count to.
01:45:35 <oerjan> see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function
01:46:47 <shachaf> oerjan: is there a variant that requires uncountably many cells twh
01:49:00 <oerjan> i keep forgetting whether we've conclusively proved 2 isn't enough.
01:55:44 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Does having uncountably many cells actually make sense? (pleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayjes)
01:57:20 <shachaf> In constructive logic, a subset of a finite set isn't necessarily finite.
01:57:34 <shachaf> In fact that's equivalent to LEM?
02:00:59 <int-e> shachaf: what's your definition of "finite"?
02:01:58 <shachaf> I don't remember which definition that was.
02:02:18 <shachaf> Injection from naturals < n maybe?
02:02:43 <shachaf> @google Andrej Bauer finite sets constructive
02:02:45 <lambdabot> http://math.andrej.com/2009/09/07/constructive-stone-finite-sets/
02:02:45 <lambdabot> Title: Constructive stone: finite sets | Mathematics and Computation
02:03:15 <shachaf> That page, or another one.
02:03:28 <shachaf> @google Andrej Bauer five steps pdf
02:03:30 <lambdabot> http://www.ams.org/bull/0000-000-00/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4/
02:03:31 <lambdabot> Title: Bulletin of the American Mathematical Society
02:03:49 <shachaf> Typing on phone, can't look right now.
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02:05:36 <izabera> can you believe it? this earth is now 2017 years old
02:06:28 <HackEgo> timecube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wron
02:08:32 <HackEgo> butterfly:While some might think butterflies are descended from flies, that is a false entomology. \ Binary file reflection matches
02:11:25 <boily> butter chicken is a good thing.
02:11:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/butterfly \ wisdom/reflection
02:18:01 <boily> shachaf: chana masala?
02:27:15 <FreeFull> 2017 doesn't seem any different so far
02:29:17 <izabera> are there degrees of primeness?
02:29:41 <boily> izabellora. indeed.
02:29:49 <izabera> is that just the number of divisors?
02:30:08 <izabera> fewer divisors -> more prime?
02:30:09 <int-e> izabera: actually there is a concept of semiprimes
02:30:30 <int-e> but actually I'm happy to call "true" more true than "false"
02:30:42 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_prime
02:31:23 <FreeFull> 2017 is only divisible by 1 and 2017
02:31:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[INTERCAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50612&oldid=36183 * Ais523 * (-13) /* External resources */ fix a broken link
02:31:49 <ais523> after 2017, the next prime year is 2027
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02:38:08 <FreeFull> 1993 1997 1999 2003 2011 2017 2027 2029 2039 2053 2063 2069 2081 2083 2087
02:43:18 <Zarutian> but 2020 is the year of hindsight, no?
02:44:39 <Zarutian> say wasnt there an befunge variant that used something like fractal maze of nearly-torus playfield-tiles?
02:45:55 <int-e> oh, here's a thing you couldn't do with 2011: 2017 is the sum of two primes (and consequently, composite in the Gaussian integers: 2017 = (9 + 44i)*(9 - 44i)).
02:48:05 <int-e> (1997 was the previous prime = 1 (mod 4))
02:57:52 <boily> time to go watch the year end specials...
02:58:48 <boily> Bonne année à tous, profitez de 2017, soyez en santé, plein d'affaires de même, une bonne pelletée de trémas à travers, et à la revoyure!
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03:06:18 <oerjan> int-e: itym two squares, no?
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04:01:26 <int-e> oerjan: yes indeed.
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04:34:41 <zzo38> Does any X server allow you to emulate arbitrary visuals?
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04:44:25 <zzo38> I have thought of a kind of hardware design to implement arbitrary X visuals. There are 32 planes; the high six planes select one of 64 palettes. Palette 0 is fixed. Palette 63 is also used for sprites, of which there are 16, of size 16x16 each, with 3 colours each. Each palette also has a red_mask, green_mask, and blue_mask value; each mask is eight consecutive bits aligned to a 4-bit boundary, and are allowed to overlap. You can index the channel
04:45:41 <zzo38> And then there would also be the hardware plane mask, which allows the blitter to only write some planes, according to your choice.
04:46:41 <ais523> I think most if not all X servers allow you to set arbitrary onscreen pixels to arbitrary colours, so they have the same ability to produce images as the hardware does
04:47:00 <ais523> (here the hardware includes the video card in addition to the screen)
04:47:54 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, although you may be limited to a TrueColor visual with the channels in one order. What I meant is if it can emulate any visual class and convert it to the format needed by the hardware.
04:47:57 <ais523> int-e: is the condition that implies for being Gaussian-integer-prime (prime and not the sum of two primes) both necessary and sufficient?
04:48:46 <zzo38> (Although I think that a kind of hardware like I describe above would help so that you really can define any visual you want and implement it in hardware instead of having to do it in software.)
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05:02:36 <\oren\> VA-11 Hall-A is a great game
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05:06:50 <wob_jonas> Happy New Year to the East Coast of the US.
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08:34:42 <zzo38> I have added the "file=" option into my GURPS character calculation program, because this option is necessary on Windows (I don't know why, but using fs.readFileSync(0) on Windows results in a EBADF error).
08:36:33 <zzo38> Do you know why it has that problem?
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15:59:29 <oerjan> (today doing the proper greeting.)
16:02:39 <boily> did I wish you a bonne oerjannée already?
16:03:38 <oerjan> i may have left before you passed into the new year
16:04:12 <oerjan> i think you greeted everyone equally
16:05:56 <oerjan> i'm still wondering what "trémas à travers" means, google seemed to think it was about umlauts.
16:06:25 <oerjan> but got confused when i removed the surrounding parts
16:07:50 <boily> I wished “Happy New Year y'all, enjoy 2017, be healthy, all that kind of stuff, a good shovelfull of scattered umlauts, and see you soon!”
16:11:31 <zgrep> boily: "a göod¨shövelfüll öf¨scätterëd ümläuts"
16:11:59 <boily> zgrellop! that's the spirit!
16:25:13 <zgrep> `ümläüt Indeed it is.
16:25:15 <HackEgo> Ïn̈d̈ëëd̈ ̈ïẗ ̈ïs̈.̈
16:35:02 * rdococ wonders if HackEgo has a big Ego
16:35:37 <zgrep> It certainly has a Hack Ego.
16:41:43 <HackEgo> 10075:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` chmod +x bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10074:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` mv IdOF bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10072:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` chmod +x bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10071:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` mv DOOB bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10069:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` chmod +x bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3
16:42:01 * oerjan swats zgrep for modifying HackEgo in private -----###
16:42:25 <zgrep> It's not as rude to spam the chat with my failed attempts?
16:43:03 <oerjan> `dots Also we have a lighter variant already.
16:43:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dots: not found
16:43:11 <oerjan> `döts Also we have a lighter variant already.
16:43:12 <HackEgo> Älsö ẅë ḧävë ä lïgḧẗër värïänẗ älrëädÿ.
16:43:26 <zgrep> I see. Not as dotful.
16:43:51 <zgrep> `döts This is a test.
16:43:52 <zgrep> `döts This is a test.
16:44:14 <HackEgo> bin/ümläüt: Python script, ASCII text executable
16:44:17 <zgrep> Oh, is it just tr for some things?
16:45:25 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ if len(sys.argv) != 2: \ print('Incorrect usage.') \ exit(1) \ o = u"".encode("utf-8") \ for c in sys.argv[1]: \ o += c.encode("utf-8") \ o += u"\u0308".encode("utf-8") \ print(o)
16:47:00 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/ümläüt", line 8, in <module> \ o += c.encode("utf-8") \ UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
16:47:20 <zgrep> Python 2 isn't great with unicode... :(
16:47:40 <zgrep> `` cat `which dots`
16:47:45 <oerjan> oh right, it doesn't even try
16:48:24 <zgrep> `` cat `which döts`
16:48:25 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/"
16:48:55 <oerjan> `` echo This works as a pipe too | döts
16:51:41 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/shebang_args_or_input
16:52:05 <oerjan> `cat bin/shebang_args_or_input
16:52:06 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ interp="$1"; script="$2"; shift 2; if [ "$#" -eq 1 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$1"; elif [ "$#" -eq 0 ]; then cat; fi | { shift; $interp "$script" "$@"; }
16:52:18 <oerjan> oh it was that complicated
16:53:38 <oerjan> noping nearly does that.
16:54:05 <zgrep> `` echo "Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk" | sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:54:07 <HackEgo> D̈ø̈s̈ ̈ẗ̈ḧ̈ï̈s̈ ̈ẅ̈ø̈r̈k̈
16:54:43 <oerjan> ``` echo "Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk" | sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:54:46 <HackEgo> DÌÃ̸ÌsÌ Ìá̺ÌÌá̸̧ÌÃ̯ÌsÌ Ìá̺Ì
ÌÃ̸ÌrÌkÌ
16:55:02 <zgrep> ``` echo "Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk"
16:55:25 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
16:55:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
16:55:51 <oerjan> oh it's ``` that changes it.
16:56:38 <oerjan> `mkx bin/ümläüt//print_args_or_input "$@" | sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:56:58 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
16:57:13 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
16:57:13 <oerjan> `ümläüt Whøt abøut this
16:57:13 <HackEgo> Ẅḧø̈ẗ ̈äb̈ø̈üẗ ̈ẗḧïs̈
16:58:43 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: engrávé: not found
16:58:58 <zgrep> Whoops, wrong way.
17:01:03 <HackEgo> Binary file bin/emmental matches \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ bin/hlnp:scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/' \ Binary file bin/searchlog matches \ bin/ümläüt:print_args_or_input "$@" | sed 's/./&̈/g' \ bin/dedot:print_args_or_input "$
17:01:10 <boily> gràvè, áćúté, ĉîrĉûmflêx, çȩḑiļļa, ǫgǫnęk.
17:01:33 <HackEgo> 2/2:gs_or_input "$@" | sed 's.̈..g' \ Binary file bin/7za matches \ Binary file bin/tclkit matches
17:01:48 <zgrep> `mkx bin/`̀//echo "This should probably do something, but it does not."
17:02:04 <HackEgo> This should probably do something, but it does not.
17:02:11 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ index.html \ index.html.1 \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
17:24:26 <HackEgo> [U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] [U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] [U+002F SOLIDUS]
17:26:35 <HackEgo> Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters.
17:27:21 <HackEgo> Thanks, unicode. Thunicode.
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18:39:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50613&oldid=49765 * CatIsFluffy * (-115)
18:43:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Al Dente examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50614&oldid=49823 * CatIsFluffy * (+45) fix indentation issues (I wish this language was more popular)
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19:50:49 <int-e> oh. "February 30 was a real date in Sweden in 1712."
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19:55:55 <zzo38> I didn't know that
20:03:14 <pikhq> Oh yes, because they decided to do a *gradual* shift to the Gregorian calendar over 40 years by skipping all leap days, and then cancelled it and reverted by adding *two* leap days.
20:04:37 <shachaf> should i use kubernetes twh
20:05:56 <pikhq> And this shit is why cal(1) has such a shitty and not very useless spec.
20:06:59 <pikhq> cal(1) is specified to do the Gregorian calendar from 1752 on, include the British transition in September from Julian, and... utterly unspecified what it does on earlier dates.
20:07:31 <pikhq> *Probably* the sanest choice is to do Julian and proleptic Julian for earlier dates, but...
20:08:18 <shachaf> But who cares about dates before 1752?
20:08:30 <pikhq> Historians, mostly.
20:09:02 <pikhq> I find it frankly a little silly the spec includes the Sep. 1752 transition, rather than just permitting proleptic Gregorian.
20:09:13 <FireFly> isn't it reasonably sane to just extend Gregorian back forever?
20:09:27 <pikhq> That's called "proleptic Gregorian", and yes, it's moderately sane.
20:09:46 <FireFly> Considering not every country switched to Gregorian simultaneously anyway
20:09:47 <pikhq> Historians get grumpy unless you *say* that's what you're doing, but it's not unreasonable to do so.
20:10:09 <shachaf> Has anyone asked Gregor's opinion?
20:10:29 <pikhq> If you *don't* say historians will generally assume you're using the contextually-appropriate calendar instead.
20:10:49 <pikhq> (but be slightly grumpy because you didn't say what calendar you were using, because that can really matter)
20:10:58 <shachaf> Do you extend leap seconds into the past too?
20:11:45 <pikhq> No, leap seconds were ill defined prior to 1972.
20:12:48 <Gregor> Guys, guys, this problem is easily solved.
20:13:01 <Gregor> Just use the same system as Kelvin, but applied to the Unix timestamp.
20:13:09 <Gregor> The beginning of time is the epoch (because, y'know, it is)
20:13:09 <pikhq> Trying to be more exact than 1 day with historical dates and times, while not always *impossible*, is really quite hard.
20:13:36 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, I forgot Gregor was back among the living.
20:13:55 <Gregor> Also ignore the fact that counting time linearly from the big bang is nonsense because of relativity.
20:13:56 <shachaf> Are you supposed to account for relativity with this scheme?
20:14:19 <FireFly> int-e> oh. "February 30 was a real date in Sweden in 1712." ← oh right, I had forgotten about the swedish calendar
20:14:55 <pikhq> Heck, with the pre-Julian Roman calendar we're barely certain of what proleptic Gregorian *years* some dates fall in.
20:16:04 <Gregor> My ticks-since-the-big-bang system works fine for this if you express time in scientific notation, so your number of significant digits is made clear.
20:16:15 <Gregor> And definitely doesn't create more confusion than it solves.
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20:26:49 * rdococ appears in all of his stupor
20:34:28 <zzo38> I think that John Dee wanted to gradually shift to Gregorian calendar earlier, but the British royalty did not want to because they hate the Catholic chutch. Dee was not Catholic either but he wanted to because he thought the Gregorian calendar is a good idea, not because the church did it.
20:36:29 <rdococ> I don't see much importance in months to be honest. I think sailors may have used it to navigate at night, but don't they have the stars for that...?
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22:53:41 <hppavilion[1]> I've just used AutoHotKey to improve my keyboard by 10000000000000 ppb
22:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> I added clipglue with ^g, which appends a selection to my clipboard rather than overwriting it (as with ^c)
22:55:37 <hppavilion[1]> And more importantly, I added a clipstack; normally ^c and ^x clobber your clipboard, but with a clipstack they instead push a new value onto it; ^v pastes the result of PEEK, ^V/^+v pastes the result of POP
22:56:20 <hppavilion[1]> (an editing feature is available through ^e- backspace drops the top value, \ swaps the top two, ] and [ will roll the deque, et cetera)
23:05:35 <^v> what if my name was ping
23:05:40 <^v> is it my fault if i get pinged?
23:05:50 <^v> im ping on esper lol
23:05:58 <rdococ> I'm back for another round of shlFFy esolang making
23:06:29 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Choosing a name that's likely to be typed in unrelated contexts automatically forfeits your right to be annoyed by irrelevant pings
23:06:59 <^v> hppavilion[1], what if someone was talking about hp pavilions
23:06:59 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Dammit, should've pinged somebody inactive for irony purposes )
23:07:01 <^v> and you got pinged?
23:07:38 <^v> i can only conclude you are not human
23:07:42 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Also, I'd only get pinged if they typed hppavilion[1]- which is not normal- or one of my alternate pings, which I can turn off.
23:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> I DO have 'hp' set to ping since people have a habit of abbreviating, but that can be turned off if it gets annoying
23:08:33 <hppavilion[1]> Worse, people often abbreviate as the non-canonical 'hppa' instead of the correct 'hp' abbreviation ;-;
23:09:18 <^v> i always take the hpp = c++header
23:09:26 <^v> at first glance
23:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> I'm considering changing nicks, since hppavilion[1] has too much baggage associated
23:10:26 <rdococ> hppa, the "hppa" abbreviation would avoid unnecessary pinging as "hp" would cause.
23:11:05 <rdococ> your nickname is NOT a work of fiction
23:11:11 <rdococ> how can it have a canon?
23:11:35 * rdococ will talk about video games more often here to ping hp
23:11:45 <rdococ> my hp is low in [insert game here]
23:11:53 <hppavilion[1]> If I replaced hppavilion variants, it'd be something derived like hppavillain[1] (which I tried out once) or somesuch
23:12:35 <rdococ> just let your abbreviation be hppa
23:13:01 * rdococ will now create fanfiction about hppavilion[1]'s canon
23:13:07 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Honestly, I'd prefer if people would just tab it in
23:13:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:13:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I'll make it all canonical so it can't be fanon mwahahahahahahaha
23:13:34 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], you mean hppa will be canon?
23:13:50 <rdococ> but that will then be fanon'd
23:13:55 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It'll be canonically rude, how about that?
23:14:07 <rdococ> and fanonically polite
23:14:20 <rdococ> new way to insult you is good
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23:19:49 <\oren\> Ha, this character's name is stella hoshi?! Hello miss star star
23:22:22 <FireFly> is she the star of the show?
23:25:32 <zzo38> In order to receive input from stdin as events in SDL what I have done is to use another client to notify SDL by using XSendEvent. This does not work if X window system is not in use though.
23:26:12 <zzo38> (Although, conditional compilation can be used in order to work it on other systems too, in whatever way they require.)
23:28:12 <\oren\> FireFly: not a show, a game
23:35:47 <izabera> https://asciinema.org/a/97804 someone explain me what's happening here
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23:37:40 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: What are you cat'ing? Does cat work without arguments??
23:39:54 * hppavilion[1] . ø Ø ( There should be a piece of programmer punctuation for conjugating verbed commands, but I don't know what it should be. ' is natural, but it's already VERY overloaded. _ doesn't work because it's often part of commands and the same applies to -. Maybe |?? )
23:44:17 <FireFly> Isn't cat, especially in #esoteric, canonically essentially "copy input to output"
23:44:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:45:47 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
23:46:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:46:31 <int-e> `` cat canary canary # ha ha.
23:47:18 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn Danish//In Danish, the word for "island" is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons.
23:47:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'danish': In Danish, the word for "island" is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons.
23:47:35 <HackEgo> cdop:CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order. \ group:Groups are just loops with the property of associativity. \ halfling:Halflings are genericized hobbits for intellectual property reasons. \ intellectual property:Intellectual property is either the plot of land where a university campus is or otherwise a property which gives
23:47:51 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: gwni works better if you just need it to print the names
23:50:33 <HackEgo> 2/5:y which gives something an intellectual air or appearance. \ keenlist:keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast \ kithkin:Kithkins are genericized halflings for intellectual property reasons, except they al
23:52:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/cdop \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/rules of wisdom \ wisdom/unicide \ wisdom/www
23:52:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/cdop \ wisdom/group \ wisdom/halfling \ wisdom/intellectual property \ wisdom/keenlist \ wisdom/kithkin \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/rules of wisdom \ wisdom/sanity \ wisdom/termite \ wisdom/treant \ wisdom/treefolk \ wisdom/unicide \ wisdom/universal property \ wisdom/vegemite \ wisdom/www
23:52:58 <hppavilion[1]> Why does it print wisdom/ before every one? I thought I fixed that
23:53:47 <oerjan> it was rather subtle to get it to it properly, as you can see in `grwp
23:54:05 <HackEgo> cat: grwp: No such file or directory
23:54:10 <HackEgo> #! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
23:54:49 <oerjan> the rest is to make it not ignore dotfiles
23:54:56 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo 'cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" *' > bin/gwni
23:55:03 <oerjan> not sure we've gor eny, though.
23:55:06 <HackEgo> cdop \ group \ halfling \ intellectual property \ keenlist \ kithkin \ reflection \ rules of wisdom \ sanity \ termite \ treant \ treefolk \ unicide \ universal property \ vegemite \ www
23:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> I don't think the newlines are really necessary...
23:55:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/` \ wisdom/`? \ wisdom/`? `? \ wisdom/^ \ wisdom/ \ wisdom/_ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ
ÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌ
ͨÌÌ´Í \ wisdom/! \ wisdom/? \ wisdom/?? \ wisdom/¿ \ wisdom/@ \ wisdom/* \ wisdom/\ \ wisdom/â \ wisdom/⥠\ wisdom/ê® \ wisdom/⨠\ wisdom/ã \ wisdom/â¾_ \ wisdom/ð \ wisdom/ð \ wisdom/ð
23:55:43 <hppavilion[1]> I'd remove them, but I'm afraid I'll screw something up
23:55:55 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, I forgot about exempli gratia "universal property"
23:56:20 <hppavilion[1]> (comma-separating might work, but still may lead to ambiguity)
23:56:25 <HackEgo> U+1F410 GOAT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 90 UTF-16BE: d83ddc10 Decimal: 🐐 \ 🐐 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
23:56:45 <HackEgo> 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.)
23:58:02 <HackEgo> Learned '-v': -v *MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:14 <HackEgo> â` \ `? \ `? `? \ ^ \ \ _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ
ÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌ
ͨÌÌ´Í \ ¯\_(ã)_/¯ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ @ \ * \ \ \ â \ ⥠\ ê® \ ⨠\ ã \ â¾_ \ ð \ ð \ ð \ áá¿ \ ÌÌÍÌÌÌͦÌÍͪÍ̼̾ͦͨÍ
ÍÍÌ®Í̸̳Ì̤ÌÌ¯ÌªÌ¸ÌªÌ±Ì£Ì ÌºÌ¹ÍÌ©ÌÍÍÍÍÌÍ̪̮ÌÌÌ£ÍÌªÍ Í¢Í¢Ò̴̢_Ì¿ÌÍ£ÌÍ£
23:58:27 <oerjan> HackEgo: that's what the -- is for hth
23:58:40 <\oren\> eventually I'll add emoji, but none of their stupid combinige emoji modifiers because I don't want to learn how to do color fonts
23:58:46 <oerjan> `le/rn -v//*MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:49 <HackEgo> Relearned '-v': *MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:55 <int-e> fungot: please improve our sanity
23:58:56 <fungot> int-e: on 16 and 17 april 2003, on his magnificent work ' fnord au fnord de la coordination fnord and by philippe de villiers against the commission is aware of it.
23:59:10 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Using just pixelly rendering is an acceptable alternative
23:59:10 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i just broke your `gwni hth
23:59:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
23:59:21 <HackEgo> â` \ `? \ `? `? \ ^ \ \ _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ
ÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌ
ͨÌÌ´Í \ ¯\_(ã)_/¯ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ @ \ * \ \ \ â \ ⥠\ ê® \ ⨠\ ã \ â¾_ \ ð \ ð \ ð \ áá¿ \ ÌÌÍÌÌÌͦÌÍͪÍ̼̾ͦͨÍ
ÍÍÌ®Í̸̳Ì̤ÌÌ¯ÌªÌ¸ÌªÌ±Ì£Ì ÌºÌ¹ÍÌ©ÌÍÍÍÍÌÍ̪̮ÌÌÌ£ÍÌªÍ Í¢Í¢Ò̴̢_Ì¿ÌÍ£ÌÍ£
23:59:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's what the -- was for
23:59:32 <HackEgo> cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" *
00:00:08 <HackEgo> cdop \ group \ halfling \ intellectual property \ keenlist \ kithkin \ reflection \ rules of wisdom \ sanity \ termite \ treant \ treefolk \ unicide \ universal property \ vegemite \ www
00:00:32 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
00:00:42 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo 'cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" -- *' > bin/gwni
00:00:51 <HackEgo> cdop \ group \ halfling \ intellectual property \ keenlist \ kithkin \ reflection \ rules of wisdom \ sanity \ termite \ treant \ treefolk \ unicide \ universal property \ vegemite \ www
00:00:56 * oerjan vaguely wonders if there are any other commands broken by the -visdom
00:01:04 <HackEgo> cat: gwni: No such file or directory
00:01:29 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo 'cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERls "$@" -- *' > bin/gwn
00:04:18 <oerjan> <HackEgo> 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) <-- i render it fine tyvm * hides missing hind legs
00:06:30 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 1*1 \ 4chan \ 4rn4 \ 6 random numbers \ 7 \ 9 \ 21 \ 42 \ 323 \ 1337 \ 2600 \ XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR \ a \ aah \ abbreviation \ abnf \ abstract nonsense \ abyss \ acab \ accounting \ action \ adjective \ admn \ adopted \ adu \ adventure \ advertisement \ afk \ agdq \ aglist \ aha \ ais523 \ algebraic chess notation \ algebraic geometry \ algebrai
00:06:37 <HackEgo> 4chan is twice as loud as stereo.
00:07:01 <hppavilion[1]> If there was an oerjan calculator, it'd have to end every message with 'hth'
00:07:10 <hppavilion[1]> (Is that oerjan or someone else who had to put a hth remover?)
00:07:34 <oerjan> it was probably too evil
00:13:09 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. Él aspira a ser más incomprensible que esta sabiduría.
00:13:17 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
00:13:22 <rdococ> still apparently from Budapest.
00:15:15 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently Nørway's legislature is called the "Storting"
00:15:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I assume the political parties of its members are determined by the Storting Hat?
00:17:17 * oerjan doesn't get the reference
00:18:28 <oerjan> with their own translated names and everything.
00:18:31 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined.
00:18:43 <oerjan> (iirc Dumbledore is Humlesnurr)
00:19:42 * oerjan looks at hppavilion[1] sternly for disconnecting in the midst of conversation
00:20:33 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], will you please decide whether your arrays start with 0 or 1 please?!
00:21:03 <fizzie> oerjan: Finnish translation translates names as well.
00:21:04 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], why are you hppavilion[1] then, and then your alt is hppavilion[0] for when you disconnect?
00:21:04 <oerjan> anyway, Fremskrittspartiet would obviously be Slytherin. i'm not too clear on the rest of the houses. (i've never actually _read_ harry potter.)
00:21:14 <fizzie> Although the only name I remember is Hogwarts -> Tylypahka.
00:21:15 <rdococ> do your arrays go BACKWARDS from 1?
00:21:28 <hppavilion[0]> ("Storting Hat" being the English name of the... well, the sorting hat. The hat that sorts.)
00:21:58 <shachaf> You mean the hat that storts?
00:21:58 <hppavilion[0]> rdococ: Because the element in hppavilion[1] is a better user; hppavilion[0] is the backup, inferior user
00:22:09 <shachaf> Presumably the opposite of distorting
00:22:29 <rdococ> and this is hppavilion[0] saying he's inferior?
00:22:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:22:30 <hppavilion[0]> "Sorting Hat" is the English name, not "Storting Hat"
00:22:36 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
00:23:32 <rdococ> YOU MEAN #hppavilion == 1?
00:23:45 -!- augur has joined.
00:23:47 <rdococ> or len(hppavilion) = 1?
00:24:16 <rdococ> the element in hppavilion[2] is an even BETTER user. go for that
00:25:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: also Iceland's legislature is Alþingi, which means "all thing" hth
00:25:26 <rdococ> you don't know 1/1 = 0?
00:25:36 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/1/1: Not a directory \ Learned '1/1': 1/1 2
00:26:03 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/1/1: Not a directory \ Learned '1/1': 1/1 is zero.
00:26:17 <rdococ> `learn 1 divided by 1 is 0
00:26:20 <HackEgo> Relearned '1': 1 divided by 1 is 0
00:26:29 <HackEgo> The 1 is just for disambiguation.
00:26:56 * rdococ wanted to be an #esotericer
00:27:25 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
00:27:30 <shachaf> The trick is writing a bunch of limericks.
00:27:32 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
00:27:32 <int-e> rdococ: the key is less important than the contents
00:27:53 * hppavilion[1] spent too long looking for the best number for that
00:28:27 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_numbers_(mathematics)
00:28:29 <int-e> a large cardinal joke?
00:28:29 <rdococ> well duh but what is it equal to
00:28:51 <int-e> (well, large countable ordinal really)
00:30:10 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_numbers_(mathematics)
00:30:18 <int-e> that was my association at least.
00:30:56 <int-e> So it's not all that large really
00:31:37 <rdococ> not as large as aleph-one
00:31:50 <rdococ> of course you can't compare an ordinal to a cardinal
00:32:11 <int-e> rdococ: you can define cardinals as the smallest ordinal number of a given cardinality
00:32:18 <int-e> and then you can compare cardinals
00:32:24 <oerjan> assuming axiom of choice bla bla
00:32:25 <int-e> that's assuming the axiom of choice
00:32:51 * int-e throws oerjan into a time delay loop
00:33:00 <oerjan> i still don't think π is a legal index for epsilons.
00:33:33 <int-e> oerjan: I know, I know.
00:33:35 <oerjan> i thought the indices were themselves ordinals.
00:33:51 <int-e> Of course given that pi is 3 or 4...
00:34:03 <rdococ> ε_π = sup{ε_π-1, w^(ε_π-1), w^(w^(ε_π-1))...}
00:34:12 <int-e> (depending on which law you take as its definition)
00:34:34 <rdococ> ε_π-1 = sup{ε_π-2, w^(ε_π-2), w^(w^(ε_π-2))...}
00:35:11 <rdococ> wait I'm mixing things up
00:35:47 <int-e> the trick is to blend them together in a coherent way, and then you may have a worthy wisdom entry.
00:35:53 <oerjan> . o O ( perhaps you could do something by treating π as surreal )
00:36:18 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
00:36:19 <int-e> most surreal numbers aren't ordinals either
00:37:03 <int-e> oerjan: "proper capitalization and punctuation"
00:37:19 <HackEgo> File: `bin/slwd' \ Size: 53 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 671133 Links: 1 \ Access: (0755/-rwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-12-31 19:15:31.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2016-11-01 05:40:51.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2016-11-01 05:40:51.000000000 +0000
00:37:22 <oerjan> int-e: i'm just thinking maybe you can interpolate somehow
00:37:57 <int-e> oh, hmm. I don't know. I don't want to think about it. I like my remaining bits of sanity.
00:38:29 <int-e> . o O ( `slwd rules of wisdom//s/itali/ITALI/ <-- not worthwhile )
00:38:32 <oerjan> int-e: everything in that wisdom is essential for its humor hth
00:39:31 <int-e> oerjan: Anyway I was wincing because the entry violates most of its own rules. I can see how this might be construed as being funny but it's nevertheless painful.
00:39:33 <oerjan> int-e: oh. i tried something like that and shachaf thought it was overdoing it.
00:39:59 <oerjan> int-e: i don't think it's missing any...
00:40:07 <int-e> I hope there's no color in that entry
00:41:03 <int-e> oerjan: I think it is understandable without a separate key
00:41:23 <int-e> oerjan: depends on what one means by "separate"
00:42:13 <int-e> `grwp overthinking
00:42:15 <HackEgo> gamemanj:gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong. \ Binary file reflection matches
00:42:35 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s/separate/lookup/
00:42:38 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
00:42:57 <int-e> yeah, that's better
00:43:56 <int-e> . o O ( proper grammer )
00:44:03 <HackEgo> gamemanj:gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong. \ Binary file reflection matches
00:44:15 <HackEgo> 1286) <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
00:47:25 <oerjan> i think i can fit grammar in there
00:47:36 <oerjan> but it may be too painful
00:51:37 -!- whatupbishes has joined.
00:51:38 <oerjan> . o O ( `learn Pain is what your feeling now. )
00:52:19 <int-e> `wElCoMe whatupbishes
00:52:23 <HackEgo> wHaTuPbIsHeS: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: <HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/>. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN EfNeT Or dAlNeT.)
00:52:39 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined.
00:57:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
01:01:57 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
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01:10:03 <oerjan> <rdococ> just let your abbreviation be hppa <-- . o O ( if you're hppa and you know it, clap your hands! )
01:10:29 <oerjan> stupid control characters not showing in the logs
01:26:12 <int-e> > group $ map sort ["old account", "coconut lad"]
01:28:02 <boily> is there a pointless way to zip a list with itself, but one element dropped? e.g. "zip f [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] [2, 3, 4, 5]"
01:28:26 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail the aztec god of consecutive numbers
01:29:39 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
01:29:45 <oerjan> although these days <*> is more popular than ap, i think.
01:30:04 <boily> <*> is intuitiver than ap.
01:31:50 <boily> > zip <*> tail $ [1..5]
01:53:25 <FireFly> zip`ap`tail reads better though
02:20:41 <HackEgo> [U+2363 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL STAR DIAERESIS]
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02:29:55 <HackEgo> cccp//CCCP is a misspelling of СССР.
02:31:26 <HackEgo> hyperbolic group//Hyperbolic groups are the best groups there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer.
02:58:35 <int-e> funny, this font distinguishes between P and Р.
02:59:01 <int-e> (but C and С look the same)
03:00:47 <zzo38> Same here; I am using the standard "fixed" font, which does the same thing
03:00:53 <int-e> oerjan: funny thing is, if I'm looking for the S combinator, I'll end up with ap.
03:01:08 <int-e> zzo38: maybe because it's the same font.
03:02:49 <zzo38> Yes, maybe it is same font. (But it is also possible that some other font might do that too, and some might not)
03:06:44 <HackEgo> violation//Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family.
03:07:02 <int-e> hmm, slightly tricky to find the resource. *VT100.utf8Fonts.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1
03:07:52 <int-e> (appres, why have I never used appres before)
03:11:16 <int-e> And I also learned about steamcmd which can download windows steam apps under linux without involving wine.
03:12:15 <int-e> (steam in wine in vnc stopped working for me a while ago... only works with a normal X server, and I have no clue why)
03:12:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:13:28 <int-e> (Where "stopped working" means it never gets past the "Connecting to steam account $account" popup.)
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03:24:34 <\oren\> isn't the storting the name of the norwegian parliament?
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04:43:52 <ais523> anyone know what's up with CALESYTA?
04:54:05 <zzo38> I don't know what is
04:55:11 <ais523> well, I know what CALESYTA was (it was an esolang design contest)
04:55:28 <ais523> but the results weren't released on the stated date and the website seems to have broken
04:57:40 <zzo38> I know what it is too, but I know what the results is either
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08:44:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:2017]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50615 * Zzo38 * (+11) Category for the new year
08:44:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Template:Yearcats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50616&oldid=46083 * Zzo38 * (+26) 2017
08:53:32 <rdococ> someone should have made 2016
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09:16:58 <b_jonas> ais523: whoa, and now their homepage ("http://calesyta.xyz") has disappeared. It was still there yesterday.
09:17:48 <b_jonas> I thought they'd be just a year late with the results to follow IOCCC tradition or something. I didn't think they'd actually disappear.
09:18:05 <b_jonas> Hopefully the homepage will come back and it's just a temporary hitch.
09:18:09 <b_jonas> Has anyone written them email?
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11:34:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Meficat * New user account
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15:37:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 021500Z 12003KT 15SM FEW120 SCT180 BKN220 M02/M05 A3051 RMK AC1AC3CI1 SLP335
15:38:03 <int-e> oerjan: seems your guess was right (GG)
15:38:33 <int-e> (or a twin? hmmmmmm)
15:39:14 <int-e> No story of intrigue is complete without a twin nobody knew about.
15:39:16 <oerjan> well it was zola who got infused with the other's memories...
15:39:45 <boily> int-ello, hellørjan. what's the conjecture now?
15:40:31 <int-e> just the identity of the "Queen of the Dawn"
15:40:31 <oerjan> and those lanterns look disturbingly the same spherical shape as the tiny wasp engines...
15:40:54 <int-e> Yes, time to bring out the fly swatters.
15:41:54 <int-e> . o O ( ------### is a special swatter made for reaching high places )
15:42:12 <oerjan> otoh can zola really have the spark-infesting kind? this _is_ an aristocratic party after all.
15:42:48 <int-e> One may be enough?
15:43:03 <b_jonas> what's this? is the new season of the Game of Thrones tv show on already?
15:43:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50617&oldid=50608 * Meficat * (+149)
15:43:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cheers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50618 * Meficat * (+7436) Created page with "'''Cheers''' is an esoteric programming language aimed at beverage-oriented programming. Partially inspired by [[INTERCAL]] and [[Chef]]. ==Statements== A Cheers program con..."
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15:45:41 <int-e> Ah, xkcd delivered.
15:46:52 <oerjan> the thing that makes me wonder if she _does_ have one infecting sparks is how she has apparently got the support of many nations and yet it's not common knowledge that she's got them ... which implies she _must_ have the support of all the spark rulers...
15:48:04 <int-e> I'd get some popcorn
15:48:24 <int-e> but this is going to take at least a week to fully unfold.
15:49:27 <oerjan> i wonder if agatha will appear in time for her wasp eater to make a noise about it
15:49:42 <Taneb> Or just too late and gets blamed for everything?
15:51:32 <int-e> oerjan: Btw, is it clear whether she's reversed Martellus' job on her body chemistry?
15:51:52 <int-e> (IOW, does she still need that wasp eater just to survive?)
15:52:38 <int-e> I know it's been around. But it's been a while... though I guess she was always quite busy with other things.
15:53:30 <oerjan> before she dictated the book, she did tell she needed it, although not why.
15:53:46 <oerjan> and that was only a couple days ago in story time.
15:55:20 <oerjan> more than a year in realtime :P
15:55:53 <oerjan> ok maybe not in those words http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151014
16:08:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bax3n * New user account
16:19:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50619&oldid=50617 * Bax3n * (+48)
16:20:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50620&oldid=50619 * Bax3n * (+4)
16:20:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50621 * Bax3n * (+209) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Д |author=User:Bax3n |year=2016 |link=http://xn--d1a.tk/ |files=<code>.de</code> <code>.d</code> }} Д (also written as д) is an esolang created in..."
16:21:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50622&oldid=50621 * Bax3n * (+4)
16:23:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50623&oldid=50622 * Bax3n * (+119)
16:25:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50624&oldid=50623 * Bax3n * (+82)
16:26:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50625&oldid=50578 * Bax3n * (+9)
16:28:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Bax3n]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50626 * Bax3n * (+51) Created page with "My name is Eric * Site : [http://bax3n.tk bax3n.tk]"
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16:40:25 <myname> what,kind of language is that supposed to be
16:41:17 <boily> that's not even not being a language...
16:41:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50627&oldid=50624 * Bax3n * (+190)
16:41:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50628&oldid=50627 * Bax3n * (+1)
16:42:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50629&oldid=50628 * Bax3n * (+40)
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16:45:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Bax3n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50630&oldid=50626 * Bax3n * (+24)
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16:48:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50631&oldid=50629 * Bax3n * (-5)
16:48:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50632&oldid=50631 * Bax3n * (+0)
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17:09:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50633&oldid=50632 * Bax3n * (+6)
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17:52:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Blablafuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50634 * Ivancr72 * (+1251) Make page.
17:53:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50635&oldid=50605 * Ivancr72 * (-24)
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17:54:40 <LKoen> "Blablafuck is an esoteric language based on Extended Brainfuck"
17:54:46 <LKoen> noooooooooooooooooooo
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17:55:55 <rdococ> NOT ANOTHER DERIVATIVE
17:56:20 <rdococ> maybe I should try and make a derivative to start instead of trying to come up with a good idea
17:57:52 <int-e> rdococ: You could write a paper, "the next 256!/248! * (1-\epsilon) brainfuck derivatives."
17:59:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50636&oldid=50625 * Ivancr72 * (+17) added blablafuck
17:59:32 <int-e> (bonus points for identifying more degrees of freedom)
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18:00:44 <rdococ> I could try and pull a Scheme-x
18:01:56 <rdococ> Brainfuck-1 would have a function to determine if Brainfuck-0 functions halt.
18:02:18 <rdococ> Brainfuck-x would be able to determine if a Brainfuck-(0 to x) halts or not.
18:04:54 <int-e> {.1.|.2.} <-- execute .2. as long as .1. wouldn't halt on the current tape
18:06:06 <rdococ> actually doesn't sound bad
18:06:37 <rdococ> what about brainfuck, but working on media other than tape?
18:07:04 <izabera> i have an idea for a hash table and it may be stupid but i don't think i've seen it anywhere
18:07:18 <int-e> hmm, if we think of brainfuck as operating on two stacks... we could make a deque version of brainfuck instead.
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18:07:44 <int-e> anyway, yes, there's potential for brainfuck derivatives, some of which could be quite awkward to work with :)
18:08:28 <int-e> It's a way to implement a tape: one stack holds elements to the left; the other elements to the right of the current cell.
18:09:14 <rdococ> if you remove one stack then it would be FSA, right? like a turing machine that can only move right?
18:09:18 <int-e> (and one of them is initialized with infinitely many zeros, which may cause trouble as a deque)
18:12:04 <LKoen> hum, an automaton with one stack is not equivalent to a finite state machine
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18:13:57 <rdococ> if we reduce the possible values of each cell to 0 or 1, we can replace the + and - with one toggle
18:16:51 <rdococ> and yep, I think it'll still be turing complete
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18:19:59 <zgrep> Though , and . would have to work differently.
18:23:15 <rdococ> would it be possible to create a super turing complete language using the halting oracle and little else?
18:24:56 <rdococ> brainfuck minus, as it's called, already exists
18:25:15 <rdococ> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_minus_-
18:25:54 <rdococ> even (without cell-wrapping!)
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18:39:27 <rdococ> can someone PLEASE describe a transistor in terms that AREN'T MEANT FOR A FIVE YEAR OLD?!
18:41:28 <b_jonas> rdodoc: I can't. transistors are some low level implementation detail in electronics hardware, and I'm a software guy so I don't care about those implementation details.
18:42:03 <rdococ> well, can it be described as a gate?
18:42:51 <rdococ> I'll find out on my own.
18:43:42 <pikhq> A transistor is a device with a "base", "collector", and "emitter" (or "gate", "source" and "drain" for field-effect transistors). The amount of current on the base (or voltage on the gate) controls how much current can flow between the collector and the emitter.
18:44:33 <rdococ> so if there's low current on the base?
18:45:10 <pikhq> Then proportionally low current flows between the collector and the emitter.
18:45:51 <rdococ> how about high current?
18:46:01 <pikhq> Proportionally high current flows.
18:46:29 <pikhq> The exact amounts flowing depend on the transistor and the supply on the collector, but this *overall* behavior is what a transistor does.
18:46:40 <rdococ> so is it basically an AND gate?
18:47:24 <rdococ> or am I misinterpreting high and low current?
18:48:36 <pikhq> What you're missing is that in most systems what happens with gates is there's a constant voltage supply that's always on...
18:48:44 <pikhq> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TransistorANDgate.png So this is the circuit diagram for an AND gate.
18:49:05 <rdococ> I do understand that...
18:49:24 <pikhq> But you are getting a basic grasp for how the thing functions, yes.
18:49:57 <pikhq> If there's input on the base or gate, electricity can flow through the transistor, and if there isn't then it can't.
18:50:22 <pikhq> And that's what people mean when they say it's a "switch".
18:50:52 <rdococ> makes sense... I guess
18:51:08 <rdococ> so I guess that electricity usually comes from the battery?
18:51:31 <pikhq> Battery or power supply, depending on the device.
18:52:26 <rdococ> so do you need to use both N and P type transistors to perform any logical function?
18:53:55 <rdococ> I got a NOR gate with transistor and resistor...
18:53:59 <rdococ> it's beginning to make sense?
18:55:10 <rdococ> I can get a NOR gate to work with P type transistors... not N tho
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19:02:18 <Perenelle> I'm gonna give it to my friend and I find you guys have crazy problems in ur heads
19:12:22 <Phantom_Hoover> how many roads must a man walk down to split the underlying manifold into simply-connected components
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20:05:23 <\oren\> urgh, only 1500 Dv left to ge back to Kerbin from Ike orbit
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20:15:40 <\oren\> ooh, a solution in only 900 Dv!
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20:19:11 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/2ogzNe.jpg Bye, Duna!
20:20:50 <\oren\> I'll be back, with something that can actually land on you
20:37:46 <\oren\> argh. come on, Mun, show me a nice assist trajectory!
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21:10:08 <boily> I should start playing KSP, if only to try lithobraking by myself.
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23:02:34 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA1bNeuny4A
23:11:23 <boily> touhou! in French!
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23:18:01 <\oren\> how can there be so many characters in unicode
23:24:21 <Jafet> there are many characters in the unicode consortium
23:31:45 <Jafet> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> how many roads must a man walk down to split the underlying manifold into simply-connected components
23:31:50 <HackEgo> 1305) <Phantom_Hoover> how many roads must a man walk down to split the underlying manifold into simply-connected components
23:32:17 <Jafet> only a genus could answer that question
23:38:59 <HackEgo> ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
23:39:20 <boily> Jafet: the answer is five, but I'm not a genius, only a sane man.
23:48:55 <Sgeo> There should be a list for H*R
23:50:52 <boily> Sgello. what's a H*R?
23:51:24 <Taneb> boily, the product of H and R
23:52:04 <shachaf> Got any good maths for me today?
23:52:36 <Taneb> The Zariski topology is pretty rad
23:54:22 <Sgeo> boily, Homestar Runner
23:54:33 <boily> Tanelle. can I bribe you for some not-quite-legal maths?
23:54:41 <Taneb> How do you mean, boily ?
23:54:55 <boily> I wouldn't know, but I like bribing people ^^
23:57:09 <int-e> boily: so basically you're handing out free money?
23:57:54 <shachaf> i can be bribed with limericks twh
23:59:54 <boily> int-e: money is boring bribe material. I prefer treats and snacks.
00:00:11 <boily> shachaf: I think I can manage...
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00:55:10 <oerjan> @tell rdococ <rdococ> if you remove one stack then it would be FSA, right? like a turing machine that can only move right? <-- no, DPDA hth
01:03:26 <int-e> how do I build a cover story for that... my stupid twin is visiting and hijacked my keyboard?
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01:15:21 <oerjan> `learn twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. he sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense.
01:15:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'twint-e': twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. he sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense.
01:15:50 <oerjan> `slwd twint-e//s/he/He/
01:15:54 <HackEgo> twint-e//twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense.
01:19:26 <fizzie> Huh, fungot's been up and running since sometime last November without having to had to rejigger it.
01:19:26 <fungot> fizzie: well he should keep quiet! things are very closely linked to the implementation of this action on the part of the investment allocated to transport, to replace other forms of trafficking, which destroys so many lives.
01:20:17 <fizzie> Sounds like someone's been unruly at the europarl.
01:20:52 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:21:01 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
01:21:17 <int-e> fungot: does this work?
01:21:17 <fungot> int-e: resolved, no person may use them to be
01:21:26 <int-e> fungot: not very well, eh?
01:21:27 <fungot> int-e: the notary and the most recent date on which each player's orientation.) in the following are generally true of all
01:21:32 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
01:21:54 <fizzie> "(Heckling) Calm down, young man, you will have every right to shout afterwards. Or go and have some breakfast, and come back when you have calmed down..."
01:22:18 <fizzie> Seems like a spirited session.
01:22:28 <fungot> boily: mr president, i am assuming that individual commissioners might perhaps also wish to refer to two of my constituents in the shetland isles in scotland, to reconsider a reduction in payments does not make sense for us always to advocate greater democracy for workers in the private sector. this is also why, since i sent a note to answer this crucial question: do you not think that this is only a first step towards establis
01:22:38 <fizzie> "Mr Cohn-Bendit, you should not be contemptuous of a colleague!" "Well he should keep quiet! Things are very simple. --"
01:24:31 <fizzie> "Madam President, I do not understand why you are getting so irritated before I have even opened my mouth!"
01:25:29 <int-e> . o O ( Sounds like a common complaint of some IRC trolls. )
01:27:43 <boily> fungot: are you for the current establishment?
01:27:44 <fungot> boily: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the concern voiced here is completely groundless.
01:27:59 <boily> fungot: yes, I am grounded.
01:27:59 <fungot> boily: mr president, i voted for the report i hope the commissioner can produce that for us.
01:28:18 <fizzie> fungot: I think we all hope that.
01:28:19 <fungot> fizzie: i should like to inform you that the views on the backwardness of american culture as compared with the earlier voting time, it is well-known that my irish colleague, commissioner monti wrote to the president of the millennium declaration and the ensuing resolution, that we can see to it that they are not all that satisfied about what has been said in the report, it will be possible, by the clear commitment to responsib
01:28:29 <int-e> fungot: very politician, voting on something you haven't seen :)
01:28:30 <fungot> int-e: mr president, i merely wanted to draw your attention to the specialist training and of help towards micro-projects aimed at improving the contribution which would be incompatible with the wto ministerial meeting in new york, even in some of the suggestions contained in the report.
01:28:50 <int-e> . o O ( "politician" is an adjective, right? Right?! )
01:29:40 <fizzie> "politician -- (a schemer who tries to gain advantage in an organization in sly or underhanded ways)" (WordNet)
01:29:51 <fizzie> Okay, there were some other meanings as well.
01:31:37 <int-e> A. Bierce suggests, POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When we wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.
01:31:58 <int-e> I guess that "we" is a "he".
01:39:27 <int-e> Sad, the text is correct on project gutenberg but I found that typo on two websites :-(
01:45:57 <int-e> Hmm, bitcoin looks foamy.
01:48:22 <\oren\> omg omg I love this game
01:49:22 <int-e> the star star one?
01:54:20 <int-e> thanks for the warning
01:56:57 <shachaf> int-e: http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com hth
01:57:21 <shachaf> (There's more to that game than it seems.)
01:58:30 <shachaf> including e.g. http://slbkbs.org/moon.png
01:58:38 <int-e> YUI({}).use('gallery-base64', function(Y) { var enc=Y.Base64.decode('...');eval(enc);});
01:59:16 <shachaf> you're holding back progress, yo
01:59:54 <boily> int-ello. that doesn't look very safe...
01:59:59 <int-e> why do you have to base64-encode the whole thing, it doesn't make sense.
02:00:19 <shachaf> I don't know, it's not my thing.
02:01:03 <int-e> boily: that's, I guess, the code implementing the game shachaf linked to.
02:04:00 <int-e> this part also seems important: o.parentNode.insertBefore(s,o)}(window,document,"script","//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js","ga"),ga("create","UA-49624540-1","beepboopbitcoin.com"),ga("send","pageview")
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02:05:15 <int-e> I'll admit that there are some nice text snippets in there.
02:05:26 <int-e> "everyone is talking about a scam some people fell for.","they're complaining that wikipedia doesn't accept donations in bitcoin.",...
02:06:05 <oerjan> <int-e> Hmm, bitcoin looks foamy. <-- wow, it's passed 1 USD / mBTC
02:06:23 <int-e> yes, for the second time in its history.
02:06:40 <shachaf> can i have that in picodollars twh
02:09:59 <int-e> but okay, the base64 mainly seems to be used to obfuscate the text snippets, nothing sinister.
02:10:09 <\oren\> huh, the currency in this game is weird. they use the symbol $ for it, but a beer costs $200
02:10:35 <int-e> maybe it's set 30 years in the future.
02:10:46 <\oren\> int-e: it's set in 2070
02:10:55 <int-e> seems realistic then
02:12:33 <shachaf> That's quite a bit of inflation.
02:13:14 <int-e> (It's fun to read novels from the 30s and compare prizes... e.g., expensive private detectives asking for $20 a week!)
02:13:16 <shachaf> Certainly not unprecedented, but a lot for the US.
02:13:33 <Jafet> oerjan: about 0.01 btc
02:13:43 <shachaf> I don't know, but I assume <$20
02:14:01 <int-e> "the big news is that one of the big name bitcoin businesses just shut down without warning. All customer assets have vanished. The owners are blaming hackers."
02:14:13 <int-e> I have no clue what that could be alluding to!!!!1
02:14:20 <shachaf> Are you playing the game or just reading the code?
02:14:42 <shachaf> It's a good game, you should eval all that code.
02:14:52 <oerjan> listen, i want the price in USD for obvious reason.
02:15:06 <int-e> "You read about a company called Flutterby Labs" -- not very well obfuscated, that one.
02:16:03 <int-e> Haha. "Flutterby Labs Inc. is a small, fairly new organization in the prepackaged software companies industry located in Mountain View, CA"
02:16:04 <shachaf> int-e: If you play the game, you get to play multiple parallel games, one of them as Flutterby Labs
02:16:25 <oerjan> i think the inflation goal is 2 or 2.5? and the feds have had trouble getting it that high...
02:17:28 <boily> \oren\: your beers are cheaper than here...
02:17:29 <int-e> Neat. "Except Butterfly Labs added a twist. They didn't sell pickaxes. They sold preorders for pickaxes."
02:20:01 <int-e> But the game doesn't mention the GH/J metric, sad.
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02:29:38 <HackEgo> rocket surgery? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:35:22 <\oren\> In KSP i had to do rocket surgery the other day
02:35:58 <\oren\> I put the wrong part on my space cruiser and had to replace it on orbit
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02:38:19 <\oren\> I tossed the other reactor into the atmosphere. it's probably fine.
02:40:44 <\oren\> pffhahahahahahahahahahahahah "mon aeroglisseur est plain de anguilles"
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02:48:39 -!- ickystick has changed nick to weepypeep.
02:49:45 * oerjan fastens weepypeep's nick with a staple gun
02:51:23 <shachaf> oerjan: good, it was pretty unstaple
02:51:46 * oerjan fastens shachaf's nick with a swatter -----###
02:53:36 <shachaf> apparently that's what fireflies eat
02:53:37 * oerjan catches FireFly with a double Lewberger with left spiral out -----###
02:53:38 <FireFly> I'd say I hum at about 200Hz
02:54:18 <FireFly> shachaf: pfft, if anything you should pay me in *real* fake money, like bitcoins
02:54:52 <HackEgo> haikcoin wtrycoin 6iycoin kachidcoin fclafacoin optimecoin lrhotoogtcoin prelcoin mouserticoin bytecoin maftgreencoin prolacoin spiracoin aarcoin surfcoin raincoin tendocoin ikvcoin choonlecoin cobocoin
03:05:16 <Jafet> presumably the bytecoin is pegged to the bitcoin
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03:13:57 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
03:14:17 <HackEgo> 2/2: "$topic1" | rnooooooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi
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03:16:46 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//s, | rnooodl,,;sfi,fi | rnooodl,
03:16:48 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 32: unterminated `s' command
03:17:21 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//s, [|] rnooodl,,;sfi,fi | rnooodl,
03:17:23 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 34: unterminated `s' command
03:18:27 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//s, [|] rnooodl,,g;s,fi,fi | rnooodl,
03:18:34 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo
03:19:00 <shachaf> in my opinion it wouldn't hurt to just replace the #!/bin/bash with something more nooooooooodly
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03:20:21 <HackEgo> noooooodl is the correct spelling
03:21:04 <oerjan> i don't understand what you mean.
03:23:33 <oerjan> or, if i do, i don't think it would make a difference.
03:26:06 <\oren\> It occurs to me that mmost of these jokes are references to internet culture that are a product of this decade, and therefore this game will be less funny when played in the year it is set in
03:27:20 <oerjan> maybe it'll just be funny for a different reason. zeerust anyone?
03:29:24 <\oren\> "she's using a tochscreen phone, like wut? people stopped using those in the 30's!"
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03:46:31 <\oren\> I actually wonder what sort of user interface will catch on in the next few decades
03:50:17 <\oren\> right now it's touchscreens on everything.
03:50:48 <\oren\> but I've seen people play games using eye tracking software
03:52:03 <\oren\> it seems the trend is toward as little physical effort as possible
04:00:47 <\oren\> $ export CURRENT_YEAR=2017
04:01:01 <\oren\> forgot to set the CURRENT_YEA
04:12:04 <zzo38> I don't like touch screen; keyboard is a better interface
04:14:32 <hppavilion[1]> I'd prefer not to use mouse, but everything is designed for it and such is the way of the world
04:16:04 <\oren\> I would prefer eye tracking if I could afford the damn thing
04:16:23 <\oren\> eye tracking for the mouse, not the keyboard
04:17:08 <hppavilion[1]> I'd also like a chorded keyboard if I could get such a thing
04:17:23 <\oren\> well, technically I can afford it, but it just seems like a waste for what is effectively a prototype
04:17:42 <hppavilion[1]> I *might* be able to set one up with AHK by making it so that any combination of keys followed by a key release types that combination
04:17:58 <hppavilion[1]> And presumably if you don't release all the keys you were holding, the ones you're still holding stick around :D
04:20:59 <hppavilion[1]> So exempli gratia the chords for 'T' and 'H' would vary by a single note, since 'TH' is the most common digraph
04:21:19 <hppavilion[1]> But then again, T is a common letter, so it might be only a single symbol in the first place
04:23:46 <hppavilion[1]> Let's say that in Monty Pythonian, 'ca' is a common trigraph, but 'c' and 'a' are relatively uncommon outside of that trigraph
04:25:07 <hppavilion[1]> You might bind 'c' to the sequence (on a traditional keyboard with chording added on) asf+j and 'a' to the sequence asf+k
04:25:40 <hppavilion[1]> (the notation here being <contributing notes>+<trigger note>- you depress the contributing notes then press and release the triggering note to type a symbol)
04:27:15 <hppavilion[1]> So you'd do (using an unrelated notation where every time a symbol appears alone it's pressed and appearing immediately before ^ it is released) asfjj^kk^
04:29:43 <oerjan> that's a pretty short trigraph.
04:30:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "a" counts as 4 letters in Monty Pythonian hth
04:32:44 <hppavilion[1]> "What's the word count of your essay" "2_576+694i"
04:33:33 <zzo38> Not everything is designed for mouse and touch screen there is other way too. Many program can use keyboard, and some are design they can work with mouse and with keyboard.
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05:42:25 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
05:42:37 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
06:16:57 <\oren\> argh I hate twitter so much
06:17:17 <\oren\> why do people put clapping emojis between every word
06:27:01 <pikhq> Costs as much as space.
06:55:30 <zzo38> I made up a program to convert all of the X cursor shapes for use with SDL. The resulting data should then be usable with SDL on any computer.
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09:01:46 <HackEgo> Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family.
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11:35:59 <HackEgo> poland//Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes.
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13:05:07 <HackEgo> select//select is a very versatile construct: it waits for events, retrieves data from tables, creates a list from elements of an input list that satisfy a condition, a dropdown list element, an event for when selection changes, branches between multiple arms, conditional between two expressions, prints a text-based menu prompt in a loop, and more.
13:05:10 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
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13:48:18 <b_jonas> oh! let's make an operating system where any byte, including the nul byte, can be part of a pathname, so system calls take filenames terminated by a '\1' followed by 255 '\0' bytes. that can't conflict with anything, since pathname components can't be longer than 255 bytes.
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16:41:47 <oerjan> the connection has fraktured
16:42:32 <rdococ> ono <(we must fix the connexone)
16:43:38 <oerjan> apparently so has fizzie
16:44:57 <oerjan> . o O ( it was the Day of the Apocalypse. HackEgo had fraktured, and the channel was filled with eerie colors... )
16:45:21 <rdococ> if you wanted eerie colors rather than cute colors you could have just said.
16:45:46 <oerjan> . o O ( and then it turned red like blood )
16:47:50 <oerjan> . o O ( fortunately for once, putty's ignorance of colors when cutting and pasting helped )
16:48:47 <oerjan> . o O ( as did irssi's ignorance of tabs )
16:49:13 <oerjan> . o O ( * wilful ignorance )
16:50:14 <rdococ> . o O ( you cooould just highlight it )
16:50:28 <rdococ> . o O ( oh and HexChat lets you choose whether to copy colors )
16:50:44 <\oren\> ok srsly how do you do reversed text
16:51:06 <oerjan> . o O ( apparently putty's highlighting doesn't overcome red on red, so no. )
16:51:41 <rdococ> what about green-on-green?
16:51:57 <rdococ> my lovely hexchat always makes highlighted text white on blue
16:52:08 <rdococ> so it's easy to read no matter what the original colours were
16:52:14 <rdococ> thus, hexchat is the clear victor
16:52:16 <oerjan> rdococ: not that either.
16:52:27 <\oren\> stupid tmux, stop responding to my clicking!
16:53:35 <Gregor> It amuses me that you had a panic attack that HackEgo was down but couldn't care less that esolangs.org is down.
16:54:20 <oerjan> THEY'RE THE SAME THING
16:54:44 <Gregor> Not sure what happened but I gave the server a (virtual) kick so hopefully it'll come back up.
16:55:15 <\oren\> hmm terrible idea, lets make it possible to edit the wiki by sending sed command to Heackego
16:55:58 <\oren\> like `wikised brainfuck s/something that needs to change/the thing it should be/
16:56:14 <oerjan> that is indeed a terrible idea.
16:56:52 <\oren\> then we can have and watch edit wars in real time
16:57:22 <oerjan> we can already watch them. except now fizzie probably needs to restart the wiki bridge after this.
16:57:44 <\oren\> it will be fun when people craft their regexes to preemptively overwrite what other people are trying to wirte
16:57:59 <rdococ> the colors are still here
16:58:23 <oerjan> . o O ( don't tempt me to add +c )
16:58:32 <\oren\> for me, that's light red on dark red
16:59:37 <oerjan> it seems HackEgo is still not joining.
16:59:47 <\oren\> rdococ: i dunno, I'm using irssi -> tmux -> ssh -> tmux -> mac terminal
17:00:59 <\oren\> iterm2, however, shows it as bright red on bright red
17:01:03 <oerjan> presumably mac terminal doesn't like to show colors as invisible
17:02:08 <\oren\> I think mac terminal jsut doesn't support bright colors as backgraound and foreground
17:02:16 <\oren\> a lot of terminals don't
17:03:19 <\oren\> basically they have to support display modes 90-109 for that
17:04:48 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code
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17:06:38 <rdococ> [93do you see this in color?
17:09:04 <\oren\> no I don't, so i'm at a loss as to how irssi is doing this
17:11:09 <\oren\> oh, iterm2 supports ^[[38;5;Nm 256 color mode
17:11:36 <rdococ> what horrible language should I think about and end up not making today?
17:11:56 <\oren\> and evem ^[[38;2;R;G;Bm 24 bit color
17:14:22 <\oren\> [38;2;240;255;240mtesting testing 1 2 3
17:15:00 <\oren\> [38;5;49mtesting testing 1 2 3
17:15:17 <\oren\> but irssi doesn't let either of thse through
17:15:25 <pikhq> It's a pity there's no practical way to do polyglot 24-bit color *and* lower bit depths (in such a way things "just work" for everything)...
17:15:43 <oerjan> \oren\: i see some very light colors on white
17:16:19 <\oren\> oerjan: those were supposed to be honeydew (a very light green)
17:16:29 <\oren\> and a very light turkoise
17:16:40 <oerjan> turquoise may be right
17:16:53 <oerjan> the first one looked more grey, though
17:17:40 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;10what color does this look like?
17:17:52 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;10mI mean this
17:18:12 <oerjan> that looks light gold or thereabouts
17:18:24 <rdococ> well, that is 240;255;10
17:18:31 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;0mso this will be yellow?
17:18:38 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;0mwell, gold but yellow?
17:18:38 <oerjan> putty seems to have checked something called "xterm 256 color mode".
17:18:56 <oerjan> so i guess it has more color capability than i thought.
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17:19:08 <\oren\> oerjan: so something further p my chain must be stripping it out
17:19:29 <rdococ> [38;2;255;0;0mr[38;2;255;128;0ma[38;2;255;255;0mi[38;2;128;255;0mn[38;2;0;255;0mb
17:20:16 <\oren\> hmm, so my version of irssi must be old
17:21:09 <oerjan> apparently irssi has a setting for 24 bit colors, but it was off.
17:21:34 <b_jonas> "It's a pity there's no practical way to do polyglot 24-bit color *and* lower bit depths (in such a way things "just work" for everything)..." => ais523 did some research about that. but it's indeed very difficult because if you write the 24-bit color codes with colons, then some terminals don't understand them, and if you write them with semicolons, then linux console will interpret the individual components as codes setting mode flags some of which are
17:21:51 <b_jonas> \ but it's indeed very difficult because if you write the 24-bit color codes with colons, then some terminals don't understand them, and if you write them with semicolons, then linux console will interpret the individual components as codes setting mode flags some of which are harmful so you need to specifically turn them off.
17:23:19 <b_jonas> The value 12 is the most harmful in particular, because "\e[12m" turns on some crazy mode on linux console.
17:24:45 <fizzie> Was my ping just about HackEgo?
17:25:20 <b_jonas> So you need to explicitly undo it with "\e[10m"
17:25:58 <b_jonas> I don't recall what ais523 decided eventually about polyglots with 24-bit color.
17:27:35 <\oren\> irssi doesn't have any updated documentation, so the best way to figure a lot of stuff out is to use the source
17:27:38 <oerjan> fizzie: yep. it might need the wiki bridge restarted now.
17:27:55 <oerjan> but Gregor fixed the rest.
17:28:11 <oerjan> (well, i assume he didn't fix the bridge, since he didn't make it)
17:28:42 <pikhq> b_jonas: Yup, exactly the sort of thing I was referring to.
17:29:02 <pikhq> You can *just* do 256 color, but I don't think ais523 figured out a way to do it, and I certainly don't see one.
17:29:34 <b_jonas> pikhq: 256 color has a different problem that makes it almost impossible to do as a generic polyglot that works everywhere
17:29:47 <fizzie> oerjan: Thanks for reminding, I didn't think of the bridge at all.
17:30:02 <fizzie> (It may or may not be still alive; I'll check.)
17:31:04 <b_jonas> namely that urxvt can be compiled to support either the 256 color mode or the 80 color mode, and those two use EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING ESCAPE SEQUENCES BUT WITH A DIFFERENT PALETTE so the same escape sequence can set one of two unrelated colors.
17:31:35 <b_jonas> You tell the terminal that you want color number 75, and then you get either the 75th color of the series of 80, or the 75th color from the series of 256
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17:36:39 <b_jonas> And these are just the saner things he had to deal with about terminals, because there are terminals where the problem isn't with fancy multi-color support, but basic functions broken.
17:37:08 <b_jonas> Like that terminal that can't decode utf-8 characters that happen to be split through a read() boundary;
17:38:28 <b_jonas> that other terminal which is the reason why ais's library initializes terminals by sending a few kilobytes of nulls;
17:39:03 <b_jonas> that terminal which produces graphics glitches when the window size is too large;
17:39:40 <b_jonas> that terminal which generates the same escape code for the home and end buttons;
17:39:51 <zzo38> I should write a better terminal emulator
17:39:57 <b_jonas> those terminals that crash;
17:40:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50639&oldid=50637 * Redstarcoder * (+480) /* Code execution */ Explained fisherman instruction
17:40:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cool]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50640 * IQBigBang * (+826) Created page with "Cool ('''C'''haracter '''O'''bject '''O'''riented '''L'''anguage) is esoteric programming language made by [[User:IQBigBang]] on 3rd January 2017. Almost everycharacter in thi..."
17:40:21 <b_jonas> and older urxvt which used to get backspacing from past the end of the line wrong.
17:40:28 <fizzie> The bridge had indeed broken down.
17:40:43 <fizzie> I wasn't expecting edits immediately after bringing it back up, though.
17:40:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: nah, there are good ones. the problem is that programs have to support old or broken terminals too.
17:41:02 <b_jonas> Oh, and there's of course terminals that are just plain SLOW.
17:41:14 <zzo38> I currently use xterm
17:41:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: for x11, I really recommend urxvt, provided you get a not very old version and compile it yourself with your preferred config options.
17:42:00 <b_jonas> easier than writing a completely new one.
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17:42:11 <b_jonas> I run a patched xterm with custom configs myself on linux.
17:42:12 <zzo38> I wrote on http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/terminalemulator what feature I want to implement.
17:42:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cool]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50641&oldid=50640 * IQBigBang * (+85)
17:43:06 <oerjan> fizzie: we seem to be getting a lot of new users these days
17:43:28 <b_jonas> "Nearly full support for DEC and Tektronix terminal emulation, including
17:43:28 <b_jonas> Sixel and ReGIS graphics, full DEC technical set (including pieces of the
17:43:31 <b_jonas> big Sigma), Tektronix APL mode, downloadable fonts, etc" => whoa
17:43:37 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe this Internet thing is finally hitting it big time.
17:43:38 <b_jonas> what do you need that for?
17:44:00 <zzo38> To be completed. Tektronix mode may be omitted, but the other stuff should not be omitted.
17:44:26 <b_jonas> (I even debugged an ugly bug out of urxvt once. Those were the days.)
17:45:14 <b_jonas> "Use different mouse cursor shape when mouse events are enabled (using
17:45:14 <b_jonas> XC_xterm when not mouse mode, and XC_arrow when mouse clicking is enabled;
17:45:17 <b_jonas> may be configurable)" => oh! good idea
17:46:02 <zzo38> Yes, that is a feature xterm doesn't have and that I think would be good.
17:46:27 <b_jonas> "Pipe data to an external program (you configure what program and what arguments) to implementing printer controller mode; this external program receives all of the same ANSI data that the terminal will receive" => and another external program controlling the ticker tape puncher?
17:47:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: you could patch some of these features to existing good terminal emulators (urxvt and screen are the ones I like)
17:47:21 * APic has a Sticker on his Bike where a Printer prints ANSI.SYS or something
17:47:57 <zzo38> Yes you could add such an external program if you want it to control a ticker tape puncher, although this is intended for sending to a printer, but could also be use for others.
17:48:04 <b_jonas> "Support for any X visual classes (monochrome, grayscale, indexed colours, programmable indexed colours, true colours)" => I think urxvt has that
17:49:27 <b_jonas> (and other features, like controlling with X resources, many xterm extensions)
17:50:15 <\oren\> the main feature I think terminals lack is more sophisticated graphics
17:50:25 <b_jonas> "Keyboard commands for ... United Kingdom mode, local mode, VT52 mode, ..." => what the heck is that?
17:50:53 <fizzie> b_jonas: The first one is a mode where you can't type mean things about the Queen.
17:51:17 <fizzie> Okay, maybe that's more of a "Thailand mode".
17:51:35 <b_jonas> "Environment variable with process ID of terminal" => you can implement that with a small wrapper between the terminal and the shell or other program it starts, one that execves the program in its argument but saves its ppid to an env-var
17:51:37 <zzo38> No that is not what it means. United Kingdom mode mean you can type and display the British pounds sign.
17:52:02 <b_jonas> or even with a shell command like export TERMINAL_PID=$PPID
17:52:20 <zzo38> Yes, that can work.
17:52:37 <zzo38> \oren\: Yes. It is a feature that actual DEC terminals have
17:55:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50642&oldid=50639 * Redstarcoder * (+15) /* Dive / rise */ added fisherman to list of movement instructions
17:55:23 <b_jonas> What I'd like is to have three separate displayed colors corresponding to each of the palette of approx 18 colors: one used for background, one for foreground when the background is dark, and one for foreground when the background is light. This would let most color combinations become readable.
17:56:15 <zzo38> b_jonas: Ah, that is a interesting idea I suppose. But may be considered more complicated than it should be. I do not know yet.
17:56:34 <zzo38> (Even if you are not in United Kingdom mode you can still display the British pounds sign when selecting VT100 character graphics set)
17:56:56 <\oren\> b_jonas: I have simply designed a pallette that has good display properties
17:57:38 <\oren\> in particular, the light and dark versions differ in hue as well as lightness to help readability
17:58:11 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, I have such a palette too, and other people have designed more, but some scheme like this (it might not be exactly what I described) could be even better
17:58:54 <zzo38> One of my idea is that for example SIGUSR1 may reset the terminal or partially reset the terminal, so that the shell can automatically do that after a program exits in order to avoid problem with programs that mess up the terminal mode.
17:58:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: is rewrapping lines when you resize the window, like urxvt or the windows 10 terminal does, a goal?
17:59:29 <b_jonas> put that in non-goals then
17:59:51 <b_jonas> but dynamically resizing the terminal is still a goal, right?
18:00:01 <b_jonas> and a user-configurable palette too
18:01:29 <b_jonas> "One of my idea is that for example SIGUSR1 may reset the terminal or partially reset the terminal," => the problem with that is that the signal isn't necessarily ordered with writes to the terminal, so if both happen quickly (and they will often do when a program exits then the shell writes something) then the terminal won't know when to reset.
18:02:00 <b_jonas> it would be better to use something that goes in-band
18:02:03 <zzo38> To resize the terminal by escape codes to at least 80x24 and 132x24 are goals; possibly others too. Although these features may be disabled by user configuration. Also of course the user can always resize the terminal window and to set the palette in the X resources.
18:03:00 <zzo38> (The user can resize the terminal to any size; it doesn't have to be only 80x24)
18:03:15 <pikhq> It's a pity there's not a modernish spec for terminal escapes.
18:03:22 <b_jonas> "the user can always resize the terminal window" => um, ok, but I mean the user should be able to resize the size of the terminal grid in characters, not only the window
18:03:51 <zzo38> Yes it does change the size of the terminal grid in characters.
18:03:52 <pikhq> i.e. one including what most people and terminals actually use, with little disregard for ancient historical practice or unused, unimplemented features.
18:05:09 <b_jonas> Oh! Above when I takled about broken terminals, I forgot to rant about the windows 10 terminal's vt102-like escape code support!
18:06:11 <b_jonas> The windows 10 terminal recognizes certain escapes, in particular "\e[6,3H" and "\e[H" works, but "\e[6H" is treated as a no-op.
18:07:13 <zzo38> Using in-band would help (and would avoid needing to use a signal), although then there is the problem to be confuse with incompleted codes, although there may be a way to work around that too, perhaps involving the ASCII "cancel" control, as well as maybe others too.
18:09:06 <b_jonas> While it treats most DEC-like sequences it doesn't recognize (and there's many of those) as a no-op; it interprets "\x18" and "\x00" and "\x1a" and "\x0f" as some printable char taking up a grid space rather than a no-op.
18:10:22 <b_jonas> Also, it uses the ugly style wrapping where if you write a character to the last column, the cursor is immediately moved to the next line, rather than kept in that row past the end of the line.
18:10:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: I wonder if some tty-related magic ioctl can be used for this
18:11:22 <zzo38> b_jonas: I thought of that too but don't know if any such thing is possible.
18:13:08 <b_jonas> doesn't tcdrain allow this somehow?
18:13:26 <b_jonas> I mean, tcdrain together with some other side-band mechanism (not signals)
18:14:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50643&oldid=50642 * Redstarcoder * (+11) /* *> */ note mirror as outdated
18:15:22 <b_jonas> Perhaps you could use a protocol where the shell sends a long random number on a side-band, and a fixed escape sequence with that random number in it in the normal terminal stream, and the terminal makes sure to parse and find that escape sequence even when it's in a strange state that would normally not find that escape sequence.
18:16:30 <zzo38> That seems complicated
18:17:45 <b_jonas> it's probably easier to ensure that the terminal just can't be set into a mode where it doesn't listen to an ordinary init escape sequence (where you get to choose the exact string for that escape sequence)
18:18:20 <zzo38> Yes, that is what I suggested above about in-band, to use some sequence that can ensure it will work.
18:18:32 <zzo38> I should then just need to ensure that such a sequence exists.
18:18:54 <b_jonas> Or possibly use a break for this, for a linux pty can detect that I think.
18:19:21 <b_jonas> In-band has the advantage that it can work through ssh.
18:20:04 <zzo38> Yes, that is that.
18:20:21 <zzo38> In-band probably is best
18:22:14 <b_jonas> ah no, linux pty can't detect a break. it can detect some other special signals including flow control that the slave can send (on a local host, not necessarily through ssh) with ioctl TIOCPKT
18:22:42 <zzo38> As far as I know a break signal is not possible with pseudoterminals anyways. But I thought to implement it anyways so that when the break key is pushed it will read the IGNBRK and BRKINT flags in order to determine what to do.
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18:31:42 <zzo38> Is this possible to do?
18:40:15 <zzo38> I also thought that in response to a DECREQTPARM request it can use tcgetispeed(), tcgetospeed(), and tcgetattr() in order to determine how to respond. You can therefore change the reported baud rate if you have a slow connection to a telnet server in order to tell them to disable fancy stuff.
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19:28:04 <int-e> that was evil. "Is your New Year’s resolution to read more webcomics?"
19:28:22 <int-e> (from http://castoff-comic.com/comic/chapter-4-page-11/ )
19:33:28 <\oren\> why does expedia recommend i fly cheap to reykjavik
19:34:31 <\oren\> becuase its cold in ice land
19:34:56 <\oren\> also I doubt an airline called "WOW air" is any good
19:35:10 <lambdabot> BIRK 031900Z 10006KT CAVOK M00/M04 Q1026 R01/320150
19:35:21 <shachaf> it's only minus zero degrees
19:35:31 <int-e> . o O ( nothing like a whiff of fresh air during a flight )
19:35:33 <\oren\> probly land in vldivostok instead and get sent to gulag
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19:37:51 <\oren\> also why do so many flights have stops in atlanta
19:40:21 <\oren\> then again, a flight to ice land for only 240 canadian dollars is pretty impressive
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20:30:06 <lambdabot> EGLL 032020Z AUTO 26010KT 9999 OVC026 05/01 Q1025 NOSIG
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20:59:41 <\oren\> but I still haven't found out why expedia thinks i should go to ice land
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23:07:49 <HackEgo> json//JSON is JavaSyntax Or Nothing.
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00:43:35 <HackEgo> 5841:2015-07-15 <mroman̈_> learn JSON is JavaSyntax Or Nothing.
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01:00:22 <quintopia> how do canadians feel about drake?
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01:29:06 <lambdabot> ENVA 040050Z 22003KT 9999 FEW023 BKN049 M04/M06 Q0996 RMK WIND 670FT 36004KT
01:30:09 <boily> oerjanland is below cow weather!
01:30:24 <lambdabot> CYUL 040100Z 04015KT 12SM -RA BKN006 BKN013 OVC020 00/M01 A2970 RMK SF5ST1SC2 SLP059
01:31:23 <oerjan> boiland is stealthily avoiding the cows, barely
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01:31:44 <oerjan> also that's some humidity.
01:34:09 <lambdabot> EGLL 040120Z AUTO 27009KT 9999 BKN024 03/01 Q1024
01:34:18 <fizzie> I don't think it will dip to cow territory here tonight.
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01:50:35 <boily> oerjan: today was very humid. tomorrow will be a physicist's dream: frictionless surfaces everywhere.
01:51:26 <oerjan> frictionless cows, look out for vacuum...
01:52:00 <oerjan> (the vacuum will automatically make the cows spherical)
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01:52:38 <moony> testing if they put it back. again
01:52:58 <oerjan> https://www.google.com
01:53:17 <moony> oerjan, the regex is smart enough to recognize www.google.com :P
01:53:37 <moony> if it was working it would've gave site name (otherbot would've)
01:57:18 <quintopia> the image of cows spherizing in vacuum is vivid
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06:27:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XPML17]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50644 * Actuallyallama * (+1251) Created page with "XPML17 is a programming language created by [[User:actuallyallama]] in 2017. It was designed because the creator hates XML, so he decided to make a programming language based..."
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10:59:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Vitsy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50645&oldid=49709 * VTCAKAVSMoACE * (+56) Fix implementation infobox reference.
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11:39:23 <boily> tried to take a picture of the orange sky, but it turned green on my phone???
11:39:27 <lambdabot> CYUL 041100Z 36009KT 4SM -SN BR FEW004 OVC008 M02/M03 A2934 RMK SF2SF6 /S05/ SLP939
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13:28:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XPML17]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50646&oldid=50644 * Actuallyallama * (-91) Changed \n to
13:30:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XPML17]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50647&oldid=50646 * Actuallyallama * (+16) Fixed newline escapes
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20:20:38 <zemhill> david_werecat.antigen: points 14.10, score 39.77, rank 4/47
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20:22:36 <zemhill> david_werecat.atom: points -5.17, score 13.79, rank 29/47 (-26)
20:22:54 <zemhill> david_werecat.antigen: points 14.10, score 41.59, rank 2/47 (--)
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22:23:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zonkobonko * New user account
22:27:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50648&oldid=50638 * Zonkobonko * (+420) /* Introductions */
22:27:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Turing machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50649&oldid=7833 * Zonkobonko * (+95)
22:28:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50650&oldid=50649 * Zonkobonko * (+24)
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22:46:32 <shachaf> fizzie: Should I use bazel to build software?
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22:49:31 <fizzie> I thought I might, but then haven't. I don't know how that would map to you.
22:50:28 <shachaf> I spent a bit of time trying to write a custom rule for building Haskell code.
22:51:08 <shachaf> It seems that writing custom rules is always going to be complicated. So it works better if you have a bunch of people writing all the rules you need for you.
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22:51:38 <fizzie> I think it likely also works better if you have a bunch of people populating a third_party directory with all the software in the world for you.
22:51:40 <shachaf> Do you know why many languages have built-in rules?
22:51:59 <shachaf> Though bazel supports references to external repositories, at least.
22:52:06 <fizzie> I've got it installed, but I can't find any BUILD files other than the ones for bazel itself.
22:52:27 <shachaf> https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow has some
22:52:31 <shachaf> And https://github.com/google/kythe
22:52:38 <fizzie> I meant, on my system.
22:52:57 <fizzie> Although turns out there's also chromium/src/third_party/ijar/BUILD here.
22:53:09 <fizzie> # TODO(bazel-team): we should replace the -lz flag, it is non-hermetic.
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22:53:58 <shachaf> https://cs.chromium.org/search/?sq=package:chromium&type=cs&q=case:yes+f:BUILD$
22:55:00 <shachaf> Anyway I don't know whether I want bazel in particular, but I certainly want some of the ideas in bazel in any build system I use.
22:55:16 <shachaf> And there aren't many options other than bazel clones.
22:57:38 <fizzie> I think the next time I fiddle with an Android thing, I'll try to use bazel for it.
22:57:48 <fizzie> I wonder if bazel can build an Android thing that uses the NDK.
22:57:56 <shachaf> I heard Facebook's bazel clone was originally meant for building Android software.
22:58:32 <shachaf> https://buckbuild.com/article/exopackage.html
22:59:32 <fizzie> https://bazel.build/versions/master/docs/be/android.html#android_library "Permitted library types are -- cc_library wrapping or producing .so native libraries for the Android target platform."
23:00:05 <fizzie> I wonder if it would be possible to make the home-Chrome to end up at that page if I type go/be#android_library.
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23:00:54 <fizzie> I don't seem to be able to find an URL at that site that I could just type "android_library" at the end of.
23:02:38 <shachaf> You could write some JavaScript to redirect you to the right page.
23:03:04 <shachaf> But there's no easy mapping from rule name to page either that I can see.
23:03:39 <fizzie> There's the table in the "Overview" page, though I don't know if that's complete.
23:03:42 <fizzie> It seems a little short.
23:04:36 <shachaf> Oh man, look at the source of that page.
23:04:42 <shachaf> Maybe it's doing the thing I suggested.
23:05:20 <shachaf> http://be.bazel.build/android#android_library
23:05:49 <shachaf> http://be.bazel.build/android/android_library
23:05:55 <fizzie> Yeah, there's a bit of that sort of thing.
23:06:04 <fizzie> I didn't even know of the 'be.bazel.build' link.
23:06:23 <fizzie> It doesn't seem to do the thing where it goes to the right page from the rule name though.
23:06:24 <shachaf> There's also cr.bazel.build
23:06:36 <shachaf> Until just now I didn't realize "cr" could plausibly stand for "code review"
23:06:45 <shachaf> I always thought it stood for that other word.
23:06:53 <shachaf> (But I always used "cl" anyway.)
23:07:21 <fizzie> I think cr/ is used much less, and also thought it meant that other word.
23:08:34 <fizzie> .build is a weird TLD anyway.
23:09:03 <fizzie> Is it one of those we bought, or someone else's general-porpoise one?
23:09:43 <shachaf> the construction world online
23:10:12 <shachaf> It's also used for https://please.build/
23:10:27 <shachaf> Which is yet another bazel clone. I know of three.
23:10:56 <fizzie> "Applicant: Plan Bee LLC"
23:12:07 <shachaf> fizzie: That page ought to have lookup by rule name. You should complain.
23:13:03 <fizzie> They'll probably just say they accept patches.
23:13:21 <fizzie> I don't know how the real go/be rule lookup works, probably by magic.
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23:18:37 <lambdabot> CYUL 042317Z 24029G36KT 3/4SM R24R/3500V5000FT/U R24L/4000V5500FT/N -SN BLSN BR OVC008 M01/M02 A2933 RMK SN2ST6 SLP935
23:18:41 <lambdabot> EGLL 042250Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 FEW045 02/M02 Q1030 NOSIG
23:19:04 <boily> cows weren't spherical today, but are being blown away.
23:20:00 <shachaf> fizzie: { let els = $("a[href^=' ']").filter((_, e) => e.innerText.startsWith("android_binary")); if (els.length === 1) window.location = els[0].href; } // hth
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23:24:14 <shachaf> $("a[href^=' ']").each((_, e) => { if (e.innerText.startsWith("android_binary")) e.click(); })
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23:25:22 <shachaf> The trouble is that a third-party page can't do that.
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23:28:00 <fizzie> An extension could probably do it.
23:29:10 <fizzie> (I met some Chrome people today.)
23:38:01 <shachaf> Do you know about writing Skylark rules?
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23:40:18 <shachaf> fizzie: Another good thing to have if you're using bazel is a few data centers to build all your dependencies for you.
23:44:41 <lambdabot> ENVA 042320Z 13009KT 9999 FEW022 M15/M18 Q1029 RMK WIND 670FT 16008KT
23:44:59 <oerjan> wait, it didn't feel _that_ cold...
23:45:44 <oerjan> well, the airport is deeper inside the fjord.
23:47:49 <oerjan> hm looks like one of my daily multiple webcomic sites got discontinued over new year. now it redirects to wumo.com
23:48:05 <lambdabot> KOAK 042253Z 32006KT 10SM -RA OVC023 12/09 A2997 RMK AO2 RAB22 SLP149 P0000 T01220094 $
23:48:28 <fizzie> I heard it's cold in Fin-land these days.
23:48:31 <lambdabot> EFHK 042320Z 36012KT CAVOK M18/M22 Q1016 NOSIG
23:48:36 <fizzie> Well, that's pretty cold.
23:48:58 <lambdabot> EFRO 042320Z AUTO 30010KT CAVOK M25/M28 Q1023
23:49:18 * Sgeo considers buying AmazonBasics headphones >.>
23:49:27 <fizzie> boily: Yeah, it's my standard "up north" airport to check.
23:49:37 <shachaf> Hmm, HackEgo could have a map of nick->ICAO
23:49:48 <Sgeo> Reviews seem to suggest that they're good for the price but a bit fragile. My expensive headphones lost their padding. Maybe I should just get superglue or something
23:49:48 <shachaf> Would make for covenient weather lookup.
23:49:51 * boily dances to steal extra warmth from shachafland
23:50:05 <fizzie> Someone I know is currently stuck at EFHK because Finnair cancelled their flight.
23:50:11 <shachaf> It could even use boily's existing database of approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh.
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23:50:16 <oerjan> shachaf: just use boily's file to gener... dammit
23:50:31 <fizzie> (Apparently Finnair is having some sort of an employee disagreement thing going on.)
23:50:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 042327Z 24023G38KT 1 1/2SM R24R/4000VP6000FT/U -SN BLSN BR FEW007 BKN013 OVC020 M01/M02 A2934 RMK SF1ST5SC2 PRESRR SLP939
23:51:01 <lambdabot> CYMT 042337Z AUTO 23015G23KT 5SM -SN OVC010 M05/M07 A2898 RMK SLP838
23:51:11 <boily> only -5 up there???
23:51:33 <HackEgo> Chapais Airport (YMT, CYMT)
23:52:02 <oerjan> is chapais to quebec like svalbard is to norway
23:52:24 <lambdabot> KSAN 042251Z 33008KT 10SM SCT200 BKN250 18/07 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP186 T01830072
23:52:38 <HackEgo> San Diego Intl (SAN, KSAN)
23:52:41 <lambdabot> KSJC 042253Z 30008KT 10SM -RA FEW006 BKN012 OVC018 11/09 A2996 RMK AO2 RAB49 SLP146 P0000 T01110089
23:52:57 <lambdabot> LLBG 042320Z 11004KT 9999 FEW035 11/08 Q1024 NOSIG
23:53:22 <boily> oerjan: far from it! it's only just "up there", in the middle.
23:54:39 <lambdabot> CYGQ 042341Z 31012G18KT 3SM -SN DRSN BKN008 M22/M26 A2971 RMK SF6 SLP101
23:54:41 <lambdabot> CYGW 042340Z AUTO 03011G17KT 2SM -SN OVC021 M14/M16 A2931 RMK SLP929
23:55:31 <lambdabot> CYIK 042200Z 15012KT 15SM -SN DRSN FEW007 OVC027 M21/M24 A3003 RMK ST1SC7 SN CVR HARD PACK LAST OBS/NEXT 051300UTC SLP178
23:55:45 <boily> ↑ probably the northernmost airport in the province.
23:56:31 <lambdabot> ENRO 042350Z AUTO 21005KT 9999NDV OVC003/// M23/M25 Q1023
23:57:41 <oerjan> finnish RO narrowly beats norwegian
23:58:24 <lambdabot> ENSB 042350Z 17008KT 9999 BKN040 M07/M09 Q1006 NOSIG RMK WIND 1400FT 19010KT
23:58:54 <oerjan> and svalbard narrowly beats chamais
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00:14:14 <lambdabot> EFIV 042350Z AUTO 22008KT 9999 -SHSN BKN020 OVC053 M24/M27 Q1021
00:14:38 <lambdabot> KSEA 042353Z 03011KT 10SM CLR 02/M10 A3028 RMK AO2 SLP264 T00171100 10022 21022 53009
00:14:38 <lambdabot> EFET 042350Z AUTO 00000KT CAVOK M34/M38 Q1022
00:14:43 <fizzie> Well, that's more like it.
00:25:10 <fizzie> That translates literally to "unclemaker".
00:26:14 <oerjan> that seems like a strange name for a place.
00:26:42 <fizzie> The etymology is probably something completely different in reality, but that's what it sounds like.
00:26:45 * oerjan gets flashback to the south park movie.
00:27:10 <fizzie> I did also approximate "tekiö" -> "tekijä".
00:27:26 <oerjan> (the first one, in case they made more)
00:27:54 <boily> aren't like "o" and "ö" completely different vowels?
00:28:00 <fizzie> Fun fact: Finnish disambiguates between a mother's brother (eno) and a father's brother (setä), while English calls both uncles.
00:28:21 <fizzie> boily: Yes, but airports.dat doesn't deal with non-ASCII characters. The place is actually Enontekiö.
00:28:39 <oerjan> (that's actually Røros)
00:29:01 <fizzie> I was going to ask if it was Rorøs.
00:29:47 <oerjan> no. that's a bit less likely, -os means end of river, essentially.
00:30:34 <oerjan> i think i may have been at least twice.
00:30:53 <oerjan> (it's ancestor country.)
00:30:54 <fizzie> I think you've got more than one of them, though.
00:31:10 <oerjan> that too, but i don't recall being to more than one.
00:31:45 <fizzie> Well, it's crowdsourced data, I believe.
00:32:03 <oerjan> i don't _think_ i've been to Røst, it's a bit of a ferry jump or something.
00:32:52 <fizzie> That sounds like it's the same Å, then.
00:32:53 <oerjan> while Å is on the contiguous lofoten road.
00:33:24 <oerjan> (it wasn't yet contiguous when i grew up, i think.)
00:33:49 <fizzie> We took the ferry from Å (or nearabouts) to Værøya, but not to Røst.
00:35:25 <oerjan> fizzie: swedish also distinguishes the uncles, while norwegian doesn't.
00:36:17 <boily> an «oncle» is an «oncle». different words are confusing hth
00:36:46 <oerjan> farbror and morbror aren't very confusing, it's obvious even to norwegians what they mean.
00:37:09 <oerjan> but we just use "onkel" ourselves.
00:37:51 <oerjan> and "tante", we have a bit of french borrowing there.
00:39:59 <boily> is it also /tãt/, or was it norwegianified?
00:40:49 <oerjan> and "nevø" and "niese", and "kusine" (female only)
00:41:13 <olsner> boily: that pronunciation would be spelled tåt or something
00:41:28 <olsner> swedish has tant meaning just old lady, no auntiness implied
00:42:02 <fizzie> oerjan: So what's a male cousin then?
00:42:41 <oerjan> fizzie: "fetter". although in practice we often use the gender neutral "søskenbarn".
00:42:56 <fizzie> "Childish" Finnish speech can use "täti" (aunt) for non-family-member old ladies as well.
00:43:21 <oerjan> (that one's apparently a german borrowing)
00:43:26 <fizzie> Finnish "serkku" is just a cousin of any gender.
00:43:54 <oerjan> oh and all of these refer to _only_ second cousins no removal
00:44:16 <shachaf> I should get my Finnish passport renewed but it's embarrassing to go to the consulate and not speak any Finnish.
00:44:19 <fizzie> Same thing. Although we've got "pikkuserkku" for a second cousin.
00:44:26 <oerjan> second cousins etc. are "tremenning", "firmenning", ...
00:45:31 <fizzie> There's a bunch of entirely obsolete Finnish words for lesser cousins that I don't know of.
00:45:33 <oerjan> boily: it's norwegianified. stupid wiktionary lacks the ipa.
00:45:49 <oerjan> but all are the "obvious" sound for norwegian.
00:46:51 <oerjan> oh and there's the prefix "grand-" which can be applied to onkel, tante, nevø or niese to add a level.
00:48:44 <oerjan> but _not_ to parents or children to get the english grand-, for the first the prefix is "beste-" _or_ you can simply compose "far" and "mor".
00:49:54 <oerjan> (and composition works for children as well.)
00:50:12 <fizzie> I think Swedish does the farfar/farmor/morfar/mormor thing as well.
00:50:29 <fizzie> Can you do more than two levels?
00:50:44 <oerjan> and then there's "olde-", for the level above "beste-", which works in both directions. and then you add as many "tipp-" as you want to _that_.
00:51:21 <oerjan> so grandfather's grandfather can be "tippoldefar".
00:52:01 <oerjan> to be specific, i think you need to start using genitive, like "farfars farfar" or the like.
00:52:33 <fizzie> Finnish just repeats the same prefix, so father -> isä, grandfather -> isoisä, great-grandfather -> isoisoisä, and so on.
00:53:19 <fizzie> I don't know if "isoisoisoisä" would really be considered acceptable any more, though.
00:54:24 <fizzie> ("esi-isä" would be any (male) ancestor.)
00:55:57 <oerjan> that would be "stamfar", i guess
00:57:24 <oerjan> although that may sort of imply the first common ancestor of a tribe. not that norway has tribes any more, generally.
00:58:29 <oerjan> ("stamme" = "tribe", in some usages. (also means trunk of a tree))
00:59:15 <fizzie> I was expecting something vaguely exponential, but Google says isä -> 7460000 results, isoisä -> 512000, isoisoisä -> 6050, iso^3isä -> 2570, iso^4isä -> 774, iso^5isä -> 394, iso^6isä -> 279, iso^7isä -> 10, iso^8isä -> 4, iso^9isä -> 4, iso^10isä -> 2, iso^11isä -> 2, iso^12isä -> 2, iso^13isä -> 1, iso^14isä -> 0.
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01:01:41 <oerjan> > map logBase (1/2) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:01:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
01:01:45 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Integer] -> t’
01:02:01 <oerjan> > map (logBase (1/2)) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:02:06 <lambdabot> [-22.830744199804688,-18.96578428466209,-12.56271942704932,-11.3275526440812...
01:02:37 <oerjan> > map (logBase 2) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:02:40 <lambdabot> [22.830744,18.965784,12.562719,11.327553,9.5961895,8.622051,8.124122,3.32192...
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01:03:55 <oerjan> > map ((/13).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:03:57 <lambdabot> [7.692308e-2,6.390096e-2,4.2327266e-2,3.816565e-2,3.233221e-2,2.9050073e-2,2...
01:04:27 <oerjan> > map ((*13).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:04:30 <lambdabot> [13.0,10.799262,7.153308,6.449995,5.4641438,4.9094625,4.6259365,1.8915312,1....
01:04:46 <Zarutian> and that is why you do not use floats with fixed sized mantissa and exponent
01:05:51 <Zarutian> imprecision at certain points a long the number line
01:06:34 <oerjan> > concatMap (printf("%.2f ").(*(13::Float)).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:06:37 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M723232078194...
01:06:37 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved.
01:06:48 <oerjan> > concatMap (printf("%.2f ").(*(13::Float)).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: String
01:06:52 <lambdabot> "13.00 10.80 7.15 6.45 5.46 4.91 4.63 1.89 1.14 1.14 0.57 0.57 0.57 0.00 "
01:07:35 <oerjan> ok, that is not very linear.
01:10:30 <fizzie> http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=lc&chs=600x300&chd=t:7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1&chds=a&chfd=0,x,0,20*log(x)
01:10:44 <fizzie> It took me too long to get that out.
01:11:03 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, I was hoping for a fizzie-style ASCII art histogram.
01:12:23 <fizzie> I've been thinking of writing a script to do plotting-related activities, with sensible heuristics for input and various output formats, including "Unicode block drawing for | sprunge".
01:13:31 <oerjan> (hm what does sprunge mean, anyway)
01:14:06 <oerjan> funny, wiktionary's only definition for that is nynorsk
01:15:05 <shachaf> https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Det_hev_ei_rose_sprunge
01:15:53 <oerjan> i considered learning that one in the original german. but i found out it had more weird theology than i like.
01:16:22 <shachaf> is there an example of nonweird theology
01:16:56 <oerjan> but one is sort of acclimatized to the usual carol stuff
01:17:43 <oerjan> (Es ist ein Ros entsprungen, fwiw)
01:18:36 <int-e> That text is weird even to me.
01:19:18 <int-e> The first line invites a pun though, "Es ist ein Ross entsprungen"
01:22:44 * boily feels like he should mapole int-e, but doesn't understand German whatsoever
01:23:01 <oerjan> ♫ Det hev ein kvalross sprunge... ♫
01:23:36 <oerjan> (i think the -ross in kvalross (walrus) may be cognate to de:Ross, but it's no longer used for horse in norwegian.)
01:23:56 <shachaf> int-e: what build system should i use twh
01:24:35 <int-e> boily: Ros' = Rose = rose; Ross = horse (somewhat old fashioned)
01:24:44 <int-e> shachaf: Lego (tm)
01:25:05 <oerjan> hm and en:horse is cognate as well, isn't it
01:25:30 <int-e> boily: but the point is that "entspringen" is not uncommon for running away, whereas using it for plants is quite unusual.
01:26:51 <int-e> shachaf: it's something that I don't think about much; for simple things I tend to write Makefiles, and I tend not to start big projects so I stick with whatever is already in place.
01:27:32 <int-e> And for pure Haskell projects, cabal is still the obvious choice I think.
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01:31:44 <shachaf> int-e: In my opinion it's ridiculous that every language thinks it needs to have its own build system and packaging system and package repository and everything.
01:31:50 <shachaf> There's no good reason for it.
01:32:45 <shachaf> Haskell and Cabal/Hackage, Rust and Cargo/Crates, Python and pip/easy_install/pypi/whatever, Ruby and gems, ...
01:32:50 <int-e> "The origin of the word walrus is thought by J.R.R. Tolkien[5] to derive from a Germanic language, and it has been attributed largely to either the Dutch language or Old Norse. Its first part is thought to derive from a word such as Dutch walvis 'whale'. Its second part has also been hypothesized to come from the Old Norse word for 'horse'.[6]"
01:33:43 <shachaf> Each of them has its own dependency management and all those things.
01:33:49 <int-e> shachaf: agreed but apparently it's something that people enjoy doing :P
01:33:58 <int-e> And obviously none of them are perfect.
01:34:01 <shachaf> What if you want to depend on a cross-language library, like a protobuf file?
01:34:10 <shachaf> You can't use any of these things effectively.
01:34:26 <FireFly> "From Old Norse hrosshvalr (“horse-whale”)" hmm, I wonder why we inverted it...
01:35:21 <int-e> And even the general purpose build systems are a mess... make doesn't handle configuration so there's autoconf+automake; then there's cmake, something awful called conscript, and I'm sure several dozen others.
01:37:12 <int-e> shachaf: anyway I see a problem but basically I see no way to solve it; all that can easily be accomplished is https://xkcd.com/927/
01:37:25 <shachaf> Well, hardly anyone is even trying.
01:38:43 <shachaf> Almost all of these systems are low-level and not declarative. It's scow.
01:39:18 <int-e> Make is declarative enough to actually get things done in a more or less modular fashion
01:40:22 <int-e> And in any case it's a hard problem if you want to cover all use cases. It's very easy to cover just what you need. Hence the proliferation of half-baked systems, I think.
01:40:43 <shachaf> make is declarative? In what sense?
01:40:56 <shachaf> You write out shell commands for every target!
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01:42:34 <int-e> The dependencies are declarative. You have pattern rules to describe how to build certain subparts. Order doesn't matter much...
01:46:55 <Zarutian> doesnt make and such systems violate the DRY principle (dont repeat yourself)?
01:49:12 <int-e> well, what is it that you think you're repeating?
01:53:38 <Zarutian> which modules depended on which submodules
01:53:53 <Zarutian> basically the dependency graph
01:54:12 <int-e> yeah a lot of effort goes into generating the obvious dependencies automatically, as a rule
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02:34:05 <HackEgo> dereduntantation:Dereduntantation is the process of making things less redundant. It is typically done with either regexes or regular expressions. \ redundancy:Since redundancy exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it. \ Binary file reflection matches
02:34:06 <int-e> fungot: are you faster than HackEgo?
02:34:07 <fungot> int-e: madam president, we are creating and financing software systems that allow dictatorial regimes and, increasingly, workers in precarious or atypical employment or workers with low salaries. against this background, it is not in a position really to define the most controversial mechanisms introduced by the fascist regime in power in burundi today. if the commission is not taking the kind of consensus that the mai should n
02:35:53 <Jafet> if language implementers provided tools to list module dependencies for use in makefiles, instead of proliferating new build systems
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02:36:27 <Jafet> as it is, fungot, every build system is its own dictatorial regime
02:36:27 <fungot> Jafet: we can only encourage the dutch presidency to be more easily mastered in future. in this world.
02:37:51 <int-e> fungot: you want them to be pushovers?
02:37:52 <fungot> int-e: mr president, it is absolutely essential for the smooth development of the media to participate in management board meetings provided that the text of the common cause. the commission's proposal more attractive to a larger number than 38 but there comes a time within a european framework to define the new instruments i welcome your offer of cooperation with a view to promoting cooperation between universities with due re
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03:12:53 <lambdabot> KFLY 050255Z AUTO 35018G24KT 10SM OVC021 M16/M21 A2975 RMK AO2 T11591209
03:14:06 <pikhq> Just before we get 4 to 7 inches (10 to 18 cm) of snow. Yay.
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11:47:58 <HackEgo> plan9//Plan9 is the precursor to Dante's Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language.
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12:11:34 <b_jonas> Oh! They made an artifact-based convoke in the new set. Brilliant! That ought to be not as broken as affinity, but it still lets you use your Darksteel Relics.
12:18:42 <boily> b_jellonas. convoking artifacts is a little broken already. free mana for nothing, along with colourless lands...
12:20:33 <boily> nothing like being on the receiving end of an eldrazi rush.
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12:31:12 <b_jonas> boily: sure, but it won't be as broken as affinity.
12:31:32 <b_jonas> maybe it's only as broken as fast elves
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14:38:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50651&oldid=50595 * BeHuman * (+391)
14:48:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50652&oldid=50651 * BeHuman * (+0) /* Functions examples */
14:49:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50653&oldid=50652 * BeHuman * (+16) /* Operators */
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16:56:30 <izabera> https://arin.ga/4M724y/raw
16:56:45 <izabera> when i type make without arguments, i expect it to run the rules for memmon.so and memmon
16:56:51 <izabera> but it only runs the one for memmon
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16:59:26 <izabera> make is too esoteric for me
16:59:44 <ais523> izabera: make runs the first rule in the file, if given no arguments
16:59:58 <ais523> so it's usual to have the first rule be something like «all: memmon memmon.so»
17:00:19 <ais523> (if you want bulding everything to be the default)
17:01:02 <izabera> where is this in the manual?!
17:01:11 <izabera> please don't say something like line 3
17:01:24 <ais523> 9.2, second paragraph :-)
17:02:09 <ais523> (that's not a joke, I have the manual open to that page right now in order to look up what the section number is)
17:03:56 <oerjan> ais523: too honest to pretend you've memorized it? :P
17:04:03 <ais523> make's manual is one of those things where you'll probably end up missing details whether you read it cover to cover or not
17:04:10 <ais523> oerjan: that'd be amusing but not too plausilbe
17:05:46 <oerjan> i recall reading that von neumann could recite books from memory.
17:05:55 <izabera> who wants to try this memmon thing?
17:05:57 <oerjan> of course he wasn't a very plausible person.
17:06:11 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/memmon plz try it
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17:13:46 <oerjan> `learn The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
17:13:59 <HackEgo> Relearned 'markdown': The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
17:15:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hq9++fan * New user account
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17:17:42 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
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17:18:40 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
17:18:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50654&oldid=50648 * Hq9++fan * (+180) /* Introductions */
17:18:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50655&oldid=38760 * Hq9++fan * (+67) categorized
17:19:34 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: it is likely that it was created by someone using an old version of `learn at random.
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17:20:04 <HackEgo> oerjän hppavilion[1̈] oren̈_ oerjän Rouj̈o
17:20:45 <moonythedwarf> oerjan, with you seeingly making other entrys like this, i suspected you would be involved. i was right
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17:21:09 <oerjan> only technically, i suspect.
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17:21:28 <HackEgo> 3524:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going through \x16trying\x16 to map entries that are being put in at the same time. \ 3571:2013-08-29 <oerjän> mv wisdom/the{,\' neverending work\'} \ 5997:2015-09-15 <oren̈_> le/rn the/the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 6805:2016-02-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo $RANDOM"
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17:21:56 <oerjan> huh it was \oren\ and it used le/rn
17:22:18 <HackEgo> 6808:2016-02-10 <oerjän> undo 7476893e7fc3 \ 6805:2016-02-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo $RANDOM" > wisdom/the meaning of life \ 5997:2015-09-15 <oren̈_> le/rn the/the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 3571:2013-08-29 <oerjän> mv wisdom/the{,\' neverending work\'} \ 3524:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going t
17:22:54 <oerjan> all i did was clean up stuff
17:23:40 <oerjan> also how can you possibly consider that to be my style, it breaks most of the rules of wisdom
17:23:45 <HackEgo> _46bit \ algebraic geometry \ automatic squirrel feeder \ bbc \ bdsm \ bogosort \ boxmodel \ chu space \ ci \ civilization \ costume \ cumin \ curry's paradox \ deniability \ denial \ dew \ d-module \ dragon \ ehird \ eliot \ eyebrow \ facebook \ fundamental theorem of taneb \ go \ grace period \ histogram \ it \ klein bottle \ lambek's lemma \ loc
17:26:47 <Zarutian> `learn tachyon is a particle yet to be invented. Meta theorized to be a force carrier in thimotimoline molecules.
17:26:47 <oerjan> `learn The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
17:27:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'tachyon': The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
17:27:17 <HackEgo> Relearned 'tachyon': tachyon is a particle yet to be invented. Meta theorized to be a force carrier in thimotimoline molecules.
17:27:38 <oerjan> i claim priority on the principle that you misspelled thiotimoline hth
17:28:01 <Zarutian> damn it! Wasnt prior enough ;-Þ
17:29:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/tanebEntries
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17:29:56 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: you should pipe into paste hth
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17:32:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.16387
17:33:03 <oerjan> there's also the `1 and `spam commands, of course.
17:36:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l: not found
17:37:20 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: your font is inferior
17:37:53 <HackEgo> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: -h: command not found
17:38:05 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: fonts that don't distinguish between 1,l,I are bad.
17:38:21 <moonythedwarf> it does shwo the diffrence (Fairly well actually) im just dumb
17:41:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: '‘’‛′‵: not found
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17:41:58 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: one of them is a russian letter
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17:42:16 <HackEgo> U+0417 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ZE \ UTF-8: d0 97 UTF-16BE: 0417 Decimal: З \ З (з) \ Lowercase: U+0437 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
17:43:36 <moonythedwarf> diffrence seen, except the first and last letters are identical? *unicodes them*
17:44:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ UTF-8: 49 UTF-16BE: 0049 Decimal: I \ I (i) \ Lowercase: U+0069 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+2160 ROMAN NUMERAL ONE \ UTF-8: e2 85 a0 UTF-16BE: 2160 Decimal: Ⅰ \ Ⅰ (ⅰ) \ Lowercase: U+2170 \ Category: Nl (Number, Letter) \ Numeric value: 1 \ Bidi:
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17:44:41 <HackEgo> 2/2:L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <compat> 0049 \ \ U+0406 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER BYELORUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN I \ UTF-8: d0 86 UTF-16BE: 0406 Decimal: І \ І (і) \ Lowercase: U+0456 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \
17:45:04 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: `1 always uses a new command. you want `spam (which can also be abbreviated `n)
17:45:16 <\oren\> my font is the master font
17:45:39 <moonythedwarf> oh hey there is a tiny diffrence (few pixels are shaded on the cyrillic I)
17:45:58 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters.ttf
17:45:59 <oerjan> fortunately, `2 is nice for when you forget.
17:46:07 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
17:47:31 <\oren\> /usr/share/fonts I think
17:47:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hq9++fan * uploaded "[[File:Code-golf.png]]"
17:48:37 <oerjan> a separate roman numeral 1? YOU GO TOO FAR
17:49:36 <\oren\> oerjan: it has to be different so that the upper and lower bar connects to adjoining numerals
17:51:30 <\oren\> you could also use the Ⅺ and Ⅻ characters though
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17:52:04 <oerjan> i can't actually see any of them
17:52:31 <\oren\> oerjan: well, I mean unicode has characters for roman numbers 11 and 12
17:53:09 <\oren\> meaning that you could do (X)(X)(X)(I) or (X)(X)(XI)
17:53:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50657&oldid=50655 * Hq9++fan * (+180)
17:53:59 <\oren\> I have no explanation for ⒈⒉⒊⒋⒌⒍⒎⒏⒐ though
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17:55:13 <\oren\> there's also lowercase roman numerals
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18:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50658&oldid=50656 * Hq9++fan * (+12)
18:13:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unreadable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50659&oldid=47047 * Hq9++fan * (+19) there is no default MediaWiki font, it's a browser setting
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18:19:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50660&oldid=38723 * Hq9++fan * (+276) /* Possibly not qualifying */
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18:55:43 <rdococ> swear I had the same idea as https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bool at one point
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19:09:34 <rdococ> wonder if hppavilion[1] is still working on Peano
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19:17:47 <rdococ> oh well, I guess I'll use a different name?
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19:19:24 <\oren\> idea: alternative-universe C. Specifically, from a universe where Konrad Zuse's Plankalkuel was the first to gain general use.
19:19:59 <int-e> Zuse also built up datatypes from bits.
19:25:24 <rdococ> again, am I the only one who considers int-e to be a type?
19:25:38 <HackEgo> intellectual property:Intellectual property is either the plot of land where a university campus is or otherwise a property which gives something an intellectual air or appearance. \ pikachu:Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces. \ Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity,
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19:27:07 <\oren\> `perl -e 'int - exp 1'
19:27:18 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int - exp 1'
19:27:29 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int - exp(1)'
19:27:46 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int(- exp(1))'
19:28:39 <\oren\> `perl 'print int(- exp(1))'
19:28:41 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "'print int(- exp(1))'": No such file or directory
19:28:48 <\oren\> `` perl -e'print int(- exp(1))'
19:29:01 <\oren\> `` perl -e'print int - exp 1'
19:29:03 <HackEgo> Warning: Use of "int" without parentheses is ambiguous at -e line 1. \ -2
19:31:29 <rdococ> depends how you round it. could be -3.
19:35:13 <int-e> so much sp-e-culation.
19:36:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Help, WarDoq!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50661&oldid=43889 * Hq9++fan * (+23)
19:38:43 * rdococ is thinking som-e-thing dirty
19:39:52 <moonythedwarf> `le/rn moon/moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:39:54 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
19:40:24 <moonythedwarf> `le//rn moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:40:32 <HackEgo> Relearned 'moon': moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
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19:47:40 <rdococ> wonder if someone's already took up the idea of true as a function that takes two arguments and returns the first, and false as one that returns the second
19:49:27 <int-e> One name for that is Church encoding, for example.
19:49:40 <rdococ> I've heard that term before
19:50:05 <int-e> (But I would expect that it has been reinvented a couple of times.)
19:50:36 <rdococ> so what I'm doing with Peano is Church encoding.
19:55:06 <int-e> . o O ( Even after its acquisition by Oracle, there's nothing new under the Sun. )
19:57:07 <int-e> I think the pun Trumps the facts.
19:57:32 <\oren\> http://www.fireflyspace.com/vehicles/firefly-a
19:57:41 <int-e> How's Java doing these days? Are people scrambling to get off Oracle's turf?
20:00:40 <int-e> meh, marketing... buzzing with superlatives
20:01:26 <int-e> "The all-carbon fiber design makes the structural mass supremely light, enabling the maximum payload capacity."
20:01:45 <int-e> Isn't carbon flammable... :P
20:02:14 <rdococ> . o O ( carbon flammable? that's a new one )
20:03:01 <int-e> inflammable if you prefer :P
20:03:52 <int-e> (But I'm mainly objecting to calling the composite carbon fiber/epoxy (typically?) composite just "carbon")
20:04:56 <int-e> "The results speak for themselves." - so when was the successful test flight?
20:06:06 <int-e> http://www.fireflyspace.com/news/ournews/full-mdc-test-success never got off the ground :-P
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20:08:50 <int-e> wow, http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/x-33/aerospik.htm is an eye sore
20:09:15 <int-e> (and the links are broken)
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20:13:38 <izabera> https://irssi.org/2017/01/05/irssi-1.0.0-released/
20:13:59 <ybden> They finally got out of beta
20:14:02 <ybden> And it's still terrible
20:14:07 <ybden> After all these years
20:15:51 <int-e> it's not perfect... but nothing really is.
20:36:02 <\oren\> I'm running an irssi that I compiled myself
20:37:15 <\oren\> I guess I need to grab the new release and compile that
20:38:31 <\oren\> meh, those updates don't seem important
20:39:45 <\oren\> I'm also running a tmux I compiled myself because ubuntu doesn't update their repositories in a timely manner
20:42:20 * APic let his Machine compile v0.8.20 their(?)self too, and since 1.0.0 does not seem to be a Security-Release, i will not bother compiling that one right now
20:43:58 <nortti> just in case that was not a typo, 0.8.21 is the newest security release
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20:47:30 <\oren\> I wonder how long the average OSS project takes to get to 1.0
20:51:29 <ais523> \oren\: C-INTERCAL retroactively changed its version numbering system so that the very first development version was effectively 1.0
20:52:06 <ais523> come to think of it, so did Firefox, and Linux (both of which dropped the major version number and bumped the minor up to a major, which would convert 0.1 to 1.0)
20:53:09 -!- APic has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah | Celebrate Mungday.
20:53:30 <ais523> why are there two spaces between "Esoteric" and "Programming"
20:53:52 <APic> I did not change this Part of the Topic. ☺
20:55:25 <int-e> (because the output of /topic has a line break after "Esoteric" here)
20:56:08 -!- int-e has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah | Celebrate Mungday.
20:56:18 * APic used /topic <TAB>
20:56:47 <int-e> APic: the line break is added by the client to fit into 80 columns
20:56:50 <APic> But only on Your Window?
20:58:09 <APic> Well, RFC1459 only seems to describe <crlf> as CR LF… so an ircd could in Theory allow CR _or_ LF inside Messages =]
20:59:25 <pikhq> I suspect in practice an ircd is likely to treat CR, CR LF, and LF as newlines.
20:59:45 <int-e> APic: well actually CR and LF are excluded in the definition of <middle> and <trailing>
21:01:04 <int-e> (which doesn't contradict what you said)
21:01:58 <int-e> in fact since I've used IRC through netcat, I'm pretty sure LF is treated as CR LF by freenode at least :)
21:08:16 <ybden> It is, but that's noncompliant
21:08:58 <fizzie> A very common extension, though.
21:16:14 <FireFly> Right, I think it's common for all of CR, LF and CR LF to work equally well
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22:06:38 <\oren\> Tonight I'll finish my ttf analysis program and figure out why I have to run my ttfs through fontforge to make them valid for eindows
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22:41:05 <\oren\> windows just doesn't like my ttfs
22:43:06 <\oren\> with that and the bdf editor i'm working on, i will be able to totally eliminate fontforge from the equation
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23:24:15 <zzo38> I am not sure what use the SDL multithreading functions are if SDL_PushEvent() is not threadsafe. So I have to use SDL_SysWMEvent instead which is a bit klugy and non-portable.
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23:24:53 <ais523> zzo38: I had the same problem a while back! I didn't find a good solution either
23:25:18 <zzo38> Did you use any solution though?
23:25:24 <ais523> (I can confirm that SDL_PushEvent() is not threadsafe, though; not only is it not documented as threadsafe, I actually managed to get it to deadlock in practice)
23:25:29 <ais523> I changed the code to use polling
23:25:35 <ais523> which is a solution, but a bad one
23:25:48 <ais523> I reasoned that it wouldn't hurt that much as SDL does so much polling internally anyway
23:29:37 <zzo38> I instead used SDL_SysWMEvent. However what I did is only compatible with X11, so to work on Windows too will require use of #if or #ifdef to compile different thing for Windows; and another different thing may be needed if it is wanted to worked on FreeDOS or on Linux framebuffer mode, and so on.
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23:33:05 <zzo38> Do you think that a threadsafe version of SDL_PushEvent() should be made up so that it can work?
23:34:58 <zzo38> The document for threads says that event functions are not threadsafe, but that SDL_PushEvent() specifically is threadsafe within a timer callback.
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23:41:00 <ais523> I'd like an async-signal-safe version of SDL_PushEvent()
23:41:08 <ais523> but am not sure how you'd write it
23:49:15 <zzo38> Yes, that is what would be help.
23:52:51 <Zarutian> ais523: willing to limit yourself to architectures that have compare-and-swap instruction?
23:53:24 <ais523> Zarutian: if necessary, although I'd rather use a portable wrapper
00:02:30 <zzo38> How is SDL_SysWMEvent implemented on Macintosh?
00:02:50 <shachaf> Which version of Macintosh?
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00:42:23 <lambdabot> EGLL 060020Z AUTO VRB01KT 3600 BR NCD M01/M01 Q1037 NOSIG
00:42:29 <fizzie> Oh no, it's below cow.
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00:59:58 <lambdabot> ENVA 060050Z 07004KT 340V120 CAVOK M05/M09 Q1028 RMK WIND 670FT 15014KT
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01:06:48 <lambdabot> EFHK 060050Z VRB02KT CAVOK M21/M24 Q1036 NOSIG
01:06:57 <lambdabot> KOAK 060053Z 33005KT 10SM FEW180 09/02 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP177 T00890017
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01:15:41 <int-e> <@grumble> twoservers were taken down for maintenance
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01:18:25 <oerjan> there was a notice but i only saw it after it happened.
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01:18:48 <lambdabot> CYUL 060100Z 25012KT 15SM BKN050 BKN075 M06/M11 A2980 RMK SC5AC1 SLP094
01:19:36 <int-e> aww, I didn't get a notice.
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01:20:00 <int-e> and yes I do have +w set
01:20:13 <oerjan> <\oren\> `perl -e 'int - exp 1' <-- this is painful to watch
01:20:28 <oerjan> int-e: i guess you were on the other server, then.
01:25:25 <oerjan> `slwd moon//s/hellos/& and @tells/
01:25:34 <HackEgo> moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
01:32:43 <HackEgo> U+2099 LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER N \ UTF-8: e2 82 99 UTF-16BE: 2099 Decimal: ₙ \ ₙ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <sub> 006E
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01:42:44 <boily> `` grep -FI reflectory wisdom/*
01:42:53 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory
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01:43:11 <boily> `` grep -FIrs reflectory wisdom/*
01:43:17 <boily> `relcome xkapastel
01:43:20 <HackEgo> xkapastel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:43:29 <HackEgo> oerjän moonythedwar̈f moon_̈_ oerjän moon_̈_ int-̈e oerjän boil̈y Moon̈_ boil̈y
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01:52:59 <oerjan> boily: `grwp is highly recommended hth
01:53:49 <HackEgo> 10101:2017-01-06 <oerjän> slwd moon//s/hellos/& and @tells/ \ 10100:2017-01-05 <moonythedwar̈f> le//rn moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain \ 8585:2016-06-23 <moon_̈_> learn_append moon He sometimes causes overmoonification. \ 8584:2016-0
01:54:03 <HackEgo> 2/3: \ 8584:2016-06-23 <oerjän> revert \ 8583:2016-06-23 <moon_̈_> learn_append moon . He sometimes causes overmoonification \ 8483:2016-06-14 <int-̈e> ` sed -i s/person/lunatic/ wisdom/moon \ 8444:2016-06-11 <oerjän> sled wisdom/moon//s/a/a murderous/ \ 7522:2016-04-23 <boil̈y> le/rn moon/Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectore
01:54:18 <HackEgo> 3/3:y object. \ 7521:2016-04-23 <Moon̈_> learn moon is a person, not an object \ 4400:2014-02-06 <boil̈y> echo \'The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.\' >wisdom/moon
01:59:51 <boily> oerjan: y'all with your logical `commands for effectively wisdoming...
02:02:40 * boily *mumble mumble* dans mon temps *mumble* tsé *mumble*
02:03:44 * oerjan brings out a lawnchair for boily, with built in waving cane
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02:16:48 <HackEgo> keenlist//keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
02:16:53 <HackEgo> internet//The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
02:17:14 <boily> . o O ( the internet is for porn, the internet is for porn ♪ )
02:18:04 <oerjan> . o O ( ... and double click, for porn, porn, porn ♪ )
02:20:40 * oerjan probably got that link from here, anyway
02:31:11 <HackEgo> 1/2:google//Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. \ mole//Mole is an SI unit for measuring large numbers of burrowing teeth. \ links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case java
02:31:20 <HackEgo> 2/2:script wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. \ grammar//Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax. \ phantom__hoover//Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
02:32:55 <boily> he\\oren\. could you font 鼠 please?
02:33:27 <HackEgo> U+9F20 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9F20 \ UTF-8: e9 bc a0 UTF-16BE: 9f20 Decimal: 鼠 \ 鼠 (鼠) \ Uppercase: U+9F20 \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
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02:43:39 <xkapastel> anyone here familiar with illative combinatory logic?
02:44:34 * oerjan vaguely recalls it being mentioned before, but it may have been by you
02:45:28 <xkapastel> i don't think i've mentioned it in this chat before, and it's kind of obscure so i can see esolang people being interested in it
03:09:07 <fizzie> We discussed the Finnish illative noun case in May 2010, December 2011, August 2012, January 2013, October 2014 and March 2015, that's all I can find hth
03:09:41 <fizzie> (Deewiant also mentioned "titillative minutiae" in April 2009, but that's probably even less relevant.)
03:13:38 <\oren\> 鼠 will be in the next version
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03:21:17 <ais523> xkapastel: I'm a fan of combinators but don't know what that is
03:22:14 <xkapastel> yeah it seems more and more obscure the more i search
03:22:52 <xkapastel> the tl;dr is it's a way of making a kind of proof assistant/theorem proving environment like agda or idris, but with combinators instead of lambda abstraction
03:23:55 <xkapastel> if you're ever tried to implement or work with a combinator language, you may have noticed that you still need lambda to do typed
03:24:35 <xkapastel> unfortunately it seems like haskell curry was literally one of the last five people to work on it
03:25:00 <xkapastel> all the hype is in type theory these days
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03:26:56 <ais523> hmm, this seems like it's a similar level of scary as dependent typing
03:27:07 <ais523> I approve of dependent typing as an esotopic, but it's not something I've put much effort into trying to understand
03:27:22 <ais523> (some of my coworkers attempted to use it; it didnt really end up going all that well)
03:27:58 <xkapastel> it's the same topics as dependent typing except without the community of excited haskellers blogging about it
03:30:13 <xkapastel> if i figure it out i'll make a nice esolang post about it though
03:30:19 <xkapastel> i do think esolang people will appreciate it
03:30:59 <xkapastel> at the very least it's like, 2 extra constrants to unlambda/io/jot
03:32:02 <xkapastel> if you're brave enough you can port some agda stuff to totally unreadable unlambda code
03:44:49 <ais523> an Unlambda-based proof assistant would be a sort of esolang that hasn't been done yet
03:45:01 <ais523> those are always nice to see
04:10:16 <zzo38> Is the reason for the INTERCAL gopher server being IPv6-only because IPv6 does not need the "Host:" headers that HTTP has?
04:13:15 <ais523> zzo38: I don't know the reason, however my guess is that it'd be related to not wanting or being able to run the server dual-stack, and possibly the server has no IPv4 connectivity
04:13:22 <ais523> it might just be because it's INTERCAL
04:27:56 <Hoolootwo> is it INTERCAL on INTERSTATES or is it I/O?
04:28:19 <ais523> the web framework is probably a different language at this point?
04:28:35 <ais523> err, wait, I may have completely missed the context of the question
04:28:43 <ais523> the answer is still correct I think, but only by chance
04:29:02 <Hoolootwo> I'm... not sure it's a clear question
04:29:12 <Hoolootwo> but I'm pretty sure I understand what's happening
04:30:22 <ais523> put it this way, the context I originally assumed can't possibly have been correct
04:30:30 <ais523> but binary I/O is the standard that's used by almost everything
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06:12:00 <zzo38> I made a SDL library to use in JavaScript but the SDL.prototype.quit function responds slowly; all of the other functions are fast. Do you know why that one is slow?
07:10:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": better image
07:12:57 <HackEgo> ⲀⲁⲂⲃⲄⲅⲆⲇⲈⲉⲊⲋⲌⲍⲎⲏ \ ⲐⲑⲒⲓⲔⲕⲖⲗⲘⲙⲚⲛⲜⲝⲞⲟ \ ⲠⲡⲢⲣⲤⲥⲦⲧⲨⲩⲪⲫⲬⲭⲮⲯ \ Ⲱⲱ
07:14:19 <HackEgo> ᚁᚂᚃᚄᚅᚆᚇᚈᚉᚊᚋᚌᚍᚎᚏ \ ᚐᚑᚒᚓᚔᚕᚖᚗᚘᚙᚚ᚛᚜
07:14:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": it did not work?
07:15:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": Reverted to version as of 07:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
07:16:11 <\oren\> So yah, ogham and coptic are in
07:40:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50665&oldid=50653 * BeHuman * (+40) /* Code */
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08:49:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50668&oldid=45784 * Hq9++fan * (-1)
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08:53:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50669 * Hq9++fan * (+93) Created page with "I'm a fan of simple esoteric/joke languages. My favorite is HQ9++ which is "object oriented"."
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10:25:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50670&oldid=50665 * BeHuman * (+23) /* C */
10:37:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50671&oldid=46702 * Hq9++fan * (+8)
10:42:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Object-oriented paradigm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50672&oldid=45271 * Hq9++fan * (+100)
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11:40:19 <HackEgo> mapole//A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
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13:11:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50673&oldid=50664 * Hq9++fan * (+23)
13:11:40 <Taneb> What's the most common convention in brainfuck for attempting to output negative numbers?
13:13:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50674&oldid=50669 * Hq9++fan * (+184)
13:13:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50675&oldid=50674 * Hq9++fan * (+2)
13:15:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:GolfJoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50676&oldid=35637 * Hq9++fan * (+63)
14:06:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[05ab1e]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50677 * Hq9++fan * (+24) Created page with "It's a golfing language."
14:39:39 <Taneb> I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in Agda! https://gist.github.com/Taneb/a4e166c913265f837f2216fa5e707b95
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16:00:54 <b_jonas> Taneb: I believe the most common convention is that cells store numbers modulo 256 so each number is printed as a different byte
16:06:57 <izabera> is there a zip (or gzip or xz or...) quine?
16:07:31 <Taneb> I believe I've heard of one
16:08:51 <Taneb> https://research.swtch.com/zip and https://alf.nu/ZipQuine
16:11:34 <Taneb> My brainfuck implementation is not faster than anything :(
16:13:42 <\oren\> I continue to predict that trump's healthcare law will amaunt to renaming it TrumpCare.
16:24:31 <rdococ> wonder what kind of programming language would symbolise trump
16:25:38 <rdococ> wonder why Hq9++fan created that image to replace the "code golf" phrase
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16:37:31 <fizzie> Not only odd, it's also an accessibility issue.
16:49:25 <rdococ> unless you add alt text
16:52:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50678&oldid=50671 * Oerjan * (-8) Undo revision 50671 by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) (Golfing is not a primary characteristic of this language. In fact, anything nontrivial is bloody verbose.)
16:53:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50679&oldid=50668 * Oerjan * (+1) Undo revision 50668 by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) (Removing the link is not helpful)
16:54:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50680&oldid=50679 * Oerjan * (-20) OTOH, we have our own page.
17:06:44 <rdococ> Peano does not sound very esoteric right now
17:07:54 <oerjan> make it crazier and rename it Peanuts
17:08:32 <rdococ> how will I make it crazier?
17:08:55 <rdococ> Peano is literally lambda calculus.
17:09:03 <oerjan> i just do the puns around here
17:09:21 <Taneb> rdococ, have you seen Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download?
17:09:50 <Taneb> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is literal lambda calculus
17:10:09 <Taneb> Or possibly literate
17:10:29 <rdococ> can you give me an example?
17:10:59 <Taneb> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download
17:11:06 <rdococ> o____________________________o
17:12:23 <rdococ> so how will I create crazy lalculus?
17:12:32 <Taneb> A language with 2D semantics, but 1D syntax, should that be in Category:Two-dimensional languages?
17:12:40 <Taneb> (in particular, COMPLEX)
17:14:05 <oerjan> Taneb: see the talk page
17:14:57 <Taneb> oerjan, does not apply, COMPLEX's memory is exclusively named variables, but its instructions are placed on a 2D grid
17:15:08 <b_jonas> whcih sort? eager or lazy?
17:15:26 <Taneb> But are written sequentially with line numbers
17:16:12 <Taneb> https://github.com/Taneb/COMPLEX/blob/master/examples/FIB.1%2B1J for example
17:18:17 <oerjan> i'm vaguely of the principle that this ought to be discussed _on_ the wiki.
17:18:31 <oerjan> so still see the talk page.
17:20:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50681&oldid=30636 * Taneb * (+375)
17:21:27 <fizzie> Taneb: FWIW, I think there's at least one language in the category already where the syntax is "conventional". I'll see if I can find it.
17:22:27 <fizzie> 2DP is the first one I came along.
17:24:04 <Taneb> Hmm, COMPLEX is already in the category
17:24:20 <Taneb> Seems I was more confident back when I made it
17:28:29 * rdococ ponders the logic of Peanuts
17:29:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50682&oldid=50681 * Fizzie * (+352) Opine.
17:30:22 <fizzie> I'm wrong about 2DP. :/
17:30:26 <fizzie> I read the examples too fast.
17:32:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50683&oldid=50682 * Fizzie * (+164) Undo! Revert! Rollback!
17:37:41 <rdococ> whoever wrote https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation is lazy
17:38:55 <b_jonas> today's xkcd talks about irc
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17:45:42 <int-e> it's NOT funny!!!!1
17:51:04 <rdococ> don't worry. I'm sure he'll have merged with the singularity by 1e+10.
17:56:45 <int-e> oh will you look at that, BTC is below $1k again.
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18:14:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50684&oldid=49929 * Hq9++fan * (-21) /* Brevity */
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18:19:37 <rdococ> a crazy version of lambda calculus
18:26:21 <b_jonas> what? Real Fast Nora Hair Salon 2: Shear Disaster Download isn't crazy
18:28:38 <shachaf> unless you're talking about a slightly different language
18:30:16 <int-e> this is neat. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/01/an_sql_injectio.html
18:31:10 <shachaf> int-e: missing a quote at the beginning tdnh
18:31:11 <b_jonas> int-e: isn't that missing an apostrophe at the beginning?
18:31:49 <shachaf> also why do people seem to think xkcd invented sql injection?
18:31:51 <int-e> b_jonas: yeah, hmm.
18:32:00 <int-e> shachaf: do they now?
18:32:11 <int-e> xkcd made it into a meme.
18:33:15 <b_jonas> why would they use that name, which rarely works because it requires a table named just right, instead of something like ' OR 1 = 1 OR '
18:34:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm going to advance the wild theory that perhaps they were not in fact attempting a serious cyberattack on companies house
18:34:51 <b_jonas> by the way, I'm considering to make urls such that they sometimes end in a dot or close parenthesis, which will often break some stupid conventions and code that for some reason don't want to delimit urls properly
18:35:16 <b_jonas> I've seen one that wasn't related to markdown, but I don't remember what it was now
18:36:14 <Phantom_Hoover> xchat doesn't consider brackets to be part of a URL but that's the sort of issue that's inevitable when you're trying to heuristically pick them out of chat
18:36:39 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: conventions where people quote an url in a sentence and add a period or comma that isn't part of the url, not separated in any way;
18:36:44 <Phantom_Hoover> with markdown it's just another instance of it being a clusterfuck of in-band syntax
18:36:58 <b_jonas> code like the markdown parser stack exchange uses
18:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> reading reddit comments quite frequently turns into picking apart markdown gore
18:37:44 <Phantom_Hoover> especially if the poor fool writing the comment tried to use * to denote multiplication
18:39:34 <b_jonas> For square brackets, the problem is backwards. When URL's were designed, they weren't supposed to require unqouted square brackets, and mediawiki is right to use square brackets to delimit urls in some cases. But later people invented this VERY STUPID syntax extension for http urls where an ipv6 address in colon notation is surrounded by square brackets. that's just stupid. they should've used any of lots of other available delimiters, including parenthe
18:40:04 <zzo38> Use the notation like <telnet://localhost/> for example
18:41:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, that or double quotes or putting urls on their own line is what people should do in most cases, and at least put urls in separate word separated by spaces in casual conversation if you don't even want a double quote.
18:41:51 <b_jonas> I usually use double quotes. Some stupid clients other people use actually discourage that, because they don't recognize urls that are double-quoted. (It's the same problem as with irc NOTICE really.)
18:42:21 <b_jonas> I almost never use angle brackets
18:43:39 <shachaf> <> is specified in some RFC.
18:46:51 <shachaf> Sometimes I like unescaped double quotes in my URLs.
18:47:44 <b_jonas> shachaf: iirc some old rfc says use either <> or ""
18:47:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: I don't think that's allowed in urls
18:48:13 <b_jonas> single quotes are, sure, and dollar signs and commas and semicolons and parenthesis too
18:48:15 <shachaf> But sometimes I do it anyway.
18:54:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:Code-golf.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50685 * Rdococ * (+254) Is this necessary?
19:07:39 <zzo38> The format <> is also used in RDF Turtle format too
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19:16:16 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/evil"file
19:18:15 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/evil"file.htm
19:20:12 <rdococ> wait, I'm pretty sure " isn't an allowed character in file names
19:20:17 <zzo38> That isn't going to work, putting in the HTML code like that. You can use % encodings instead to link inside of a HTML though
19:20:19 <rdococ> or is that why it's evil?
19:20:37 <\oren\> rdococ: " is legal in file names, just not in urls or somehting
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19:21:41 <rdococ> in HTML tags, attributes with string values are delimited by " I believe
19:22:40 <\oren\> rdococ: yes, the autohtm script doesn't work for this url
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19:23:33 <\oren\> i'll try to avoid " in file names other than that one
19:27:17 <\oren\> the only character actually forbidden in file names is / iirc
19:27:48 <\oren\> you can even have a file named '<CTCP>'
19:28:53 <shachaf> this is really annoying to several people, as you know
19:31:53 <rdococ> still thinking about peanuts
19:32:07 <rdococ> what about some allergy instruction
19:36:49 <\oren\> hmm, what if I modified nano to support the use of fraktur and blackboard bold for syntax highlighting?
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19:44:09 <\oren\> actually, i guess a more general feature would be "enhanced display", whereby you could set some s///g type commands to be run on the file as it is displayed onscreen
19:46:08 <\oren\> so if the file for example has "x -> y" you could set a rule for that to be displayed as "x → y"
19:46:35 <rdococ> I believe old versions of Squeak/Smalltalk had _ display as →
19:46:52 <rdococ> but I think it was a font, not an actual substitution
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19:48:56 <HackEgo> 1210) <ais523_> Funge-98 has half the advantages of a nomic
19:49:10 <HackEgo> 381) <fungot> elliott: i have yet to demonstrate that the sml community has less productive power than the real chunk of meat. \ 416) <monqy> itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him.
19:49:36 <int-e> somehow, I'm not surprised
19:49:47 <HackEgo> 387) <augur> ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently <Phantom_Hoover> So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
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19:51:44 <int-e> <shachaf> mkx bin/"//quote; quote
19:51:45 <\oren\> and of course one would want a[3] to display as a₃
19:52:58 <\oren\> and pow(x,3) to display as x³
19:53:40 <\oren\> because why not make C look incredibly elite
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19:53:55 <rdococ> this is why I prefer the ^ syntaxx
19:54:17 <rdococ> it's like x*3 is to 3x
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19:54:54 <\oren\> nah, for c we would want x^3 to show as x⊕3
19:55:40 <rdococ> I meant in languages where ^ is exponentiation like it's meant to be
19:56:12 <lambdabot> LOWI 061950Z 26004KT 9999 FEW040 M12/M14 Q1036 R08/19//95 NOSIG
19:57:21 <int-e> cold, first time below -10°C this winter, I believe
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19:58:54 <int-e> that's such an ugly glyph.
19:59:24 <\oren\> int-e: not in my font it isnt
19:59:54 <\oren\> and hey why not go whole hog and make int show as ℤ, float as ℚ and double as ℚℚ
20:00:24 <\oren\> oh and unsigned as ℕ of course
20:00:53 <rdococ> or would that be complex floats?
20:01:30 <rdococ> anyway float can only represent an infinitesimal subset of ℚ
20:02:35 <rdococ> tho there are numbers that double can represent that float can't, none of them can represent 1/3, just a finite binary approximation.
20:03:23 <rdococ> actually, I wonder what binary encoded base 6 would be
20:03:55 <\oren\> well, it would be octal but 6 and 7 are forbidden
20:04:12 <rdococ> it'd be more complicated than that...
20:04:22 <\oren\> and you carry at 5 and multiply by 6 ans=d such
20:04:36 <rdococ> but you'd be able to represent 1/3 succinctly.
20:05:10 <\oren\> I once made a set of bignum functions that used base 255
20:05:40 <\oren\> rdococ: yes. stored in an asciz string
20:06:02 <\oren\> so 1 is 0, 2 is 1, etc. and 0 is the end of the number
20:06:04 <rdococ> wouldn't that be base 256?
20:06:58 <\oren\> 255 has factors 5, 3 and 17
20:09:51 <\oren\> huh. 65535 has factors 3, 5, 17, and 257
20:11:13 <\oren\> 4294967295 = 3×5×17×257×65537
20:13:07 <\oren\> in general 2^(x*2)-1 = (2^x-1)*(2^x+1)
20:15:08 <int-e> 2^64-1 = 3*5*17*641*65537*6700417
20:17:13 <APic> Good old BSD-Game /usr/bin/factor ☺
20:17:28 <APic> Seems to be Part of coreutils
20:17:38 <APic> „primes“ was the BSD-Game
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20:38:47 <rdococ> what about a language that is the OPPOSITE of haskell
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20:39:27 <Taneb> Cohaskell: Haskell but with all the arrows reversed
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20:46:42 <\oren\> D: is the compact disk drive
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20:54:53 <APic> otherbot: /join #botters
21:00:01 <myname> is the s or the c silent in "scent"?
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21:04:03 <myname> that doesn't make sense?
21:16:13 <rdococ> how do I twist the idea of an untyped lambda calculus to the point it's nearly impossible to program in
21:19:51 <calamari> I've been playing around with computation I can accomplish using a single, fixed (but arbitrarily long) closed-form expression. I can do branching (albeit with discontinuities), because I can simulate 2/3rds of a sign function as sqrt(x^2)/x and then manipulate that into a multiplication by 1 or 0. Obviously no memory tape, but there can be multiple inputs and a single output. This got me wondering: where does a closed-form
21:19:51 <calamari> expression fit as far as computational class?
21:29:58 <int-e> it really depends on what you allow in a "closed formula". http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeFormulas.html has "closed formylas" for the n-th prime, (13) and (14).
21:32:28 <int-e> (and those ideas should extend to primitive recursive functions, I think)
21:45:13 <int-e> <rdococ> I have an idea <rdococ> no ideas?
21:45:37 <rdococ> you forgot the <rdococ> nvm in the middle
21:46:26 <rdococ> just reinventing untyped lambda calculus is not esoteric...
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21:52:29 <calamari> int-e, I was going based on this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-form_expression#Comparison_of_different_classes_of_expressions
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22:01:10 <calamari> it's interesting to me though, because of the aforementioned conditionals, and also of course parenthesis provide a primitive form of control flow.
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22:05:24 <calamari> hmm, actually Wikipedia may have answered it for me and I missed it: "Problems are said to be tractable if they can be solved in terms of a closed-form expression."
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23:47:24 <Taneb> ARM explicitly do not allow you to demonstrate programming proficiency in an interview situation using Befunge
23:47:27 <Taneb> http://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_arm/external/jobDetails.do?functionName=getJobDetail&jobPostId=28633&localeCode=en-us&source=Indeed.com&sourceType=PREMIUM_POST_SITE
23:47:32 <Taneb> "Be able to demonstrate in an interview situation a basic capability to code without an IDE or Internet connection, in a programming language such as Python, Java, C, C++, Go, Ruby, Perl or within reason, anything else of your choice (no Befunge though)."
23:48:54 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, are you going to work at ARM?
23:49:55 <shachaf> The "though" suggests that Befunge is "within reason".
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00:01:22 <boily> Tanelle, hellochaf, hellørjan.
00:01:29 <boily> explicitely no befunge???
00:01:55 -!- shachaf has left.
00:04:06 <\oren\> or the ever popular INTERCAL
00:08:03 <boily> are REPLs accepted?
00:19:38 * oerjan wonders what shachaf got annoyed at
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00:30:02 <boily> @tell shachaf hellochaf. leaving #esoteric is no sportsmanlike hth
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00:32:49 <HackEgo> cake//The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
00:42:44 <oerjan> we'll get around to that as soon as ais523 invents feather
00:56:09 <\oren\> so it took me 50 minutes or so to get home? that's fairly good for the ttc
00:57:45 <olsner> transport tycoon something?
00:58:04 <boily> I wouldn't even call it "transport"... it's arguably even worse than the STM.
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00:59:14 <\oren\> `le/rn TTC//The TTC is the terrible transit commission. Sometimes their streetcars move faster than walking pace.
00:59:28 <HackEgo> Learned 'ttc': The TTC is the terrible transit commission. Sometimes their streetcars move faster than walking pace.
00:59:46 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> especially if the poor fool writing the comment tried to use * to denote multiplication <-- why don't people check their own messages...
01:00:44 * oerjan would have been confused if he didn't know where \oren\ is from
01:01:01 <boily> \oren\ confuses multiplications???
01:01:09 <olsner> from the city of Terrible, clearly
01:03:40 <\oren\> boily: no, markdown causes * to screw up
01:06:37 <boily> . o O ( if I act boily, is it boilyly? )
01:06:53 <boily> \oren\: obviously.
01:07:02 <olsner> maybe you're already an adverb
01:07:16 <HackEgo> "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:07:44 <oerjan> `slwd boily//s/man/adverb/
01:07:48 <HackEgo> boily//"Only sane adverb" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:08:40 <oerjan> i cannot remove your sanity, but i can remove your word class
01:13:20 <boily> my sanity is pure!
01:14:39 <oerjan> do you floss it regularly
01:17:20 <boily> >_>'... uh... <_<;...
01:21:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50686&oldid=50685 * Enoua5 * (+100)
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01:31:40 <olsner> boily: maybe you need to make an appointment with your mental hygienist
01:32:01 <oerjan> why did that command fail...
01:33:31 <HackEgo> 9215:2016-10-10 <oerjän> sled bin/culprits//s/sed.*/xargs/ \ 8624:2016-06-27 <oerjän> mkx bin/culprits//hoag "$@" | awk \'{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}\' | sed "s/.$/\\x0F&/" | xargs \ 7930:2016-05-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` mv bin/culprits bin/culprits2; mv bin/innocent bin/culprits \ 7928:2016-05-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` mv bin/culprits2 bin/cu
01:33:54 <HackEgo> 8567:2016-06-22 <shachäf> mkx bin/"//quote; quote
01:34:17 <oerjan> it must have just timed out for int-e then
01:34:21 <HackEgo> moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
01:36:44 <HackEgo> 1146) <zzo38> Despite the various chess variants (even Chess 2), even ordinary FIDE chess is a fine playable game. But so can others be!
01:36:51 <HackEgo> 1145) <fizzie> "Emoticons are dropped when crafting trading cards and are tradable."
01:36:55 <HackEgo> 1144) <ion> Homeopathic encryption: add 9 parts NULs to 1 part of data, shake well into three directions, repeat the process 30 to 100 times.
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01:37:14 <HackEgo> 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
01:37:41 <HackEgo> 83) <fax> okay I see it now, quines do exist \ 237) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" \ 562) <monqy> bad people have feelings too <monqy> but they're bad <monqy> so it's okay \
01:37:59 <oerjan> `` allquotes | grep OKAY
01:38:02 <HackEgo> 1137) <oerjan> OKAY \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
01:39:55 <HackEgo> 1/2:1205) <adu> me thinks fungot is high on crack <fungot> adu: not exactly something like that. but even real scheme :p. \ 1238) <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? \ 253) <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same
01:40:01 <HackEgo> 2/2: name!!! \ 1121) <boily> everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. \ 688) <fizzie> fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. <fungot> fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used
01:42:07 <lambdabot> ENVA 070050Z 26019KT 7000 FEW019 BKN031 OVC053 03/01 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 27019KT
01:45:54 <lambdabot> CYUL 070100Z 00000KT 15SM SKC M11/M14 A3020 RMK SLP232
01:46:14 <boily> it never skces here.
01:46:24 <oerjan> <\oren\> i sense a pattern <-- (x-1)(x^(n-1) + x^(n-2) + ... + 1) = x^n - 1 hth
01:48:15 <oerjan> next you'll be claiming to spot the Daystar
01:50:02 <boily> there's something shiny in the sky, but I think it's moonier than that.
01:50:19 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: are you mooning boily again
01:52:16 <oerjan> \oren\: also a-b divides a^n-b^n similarly, or you can see it trivially with modulus arithmetic
01:58:05 <boily> http://www.lasrecetasfacilesdemaria.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Calamares-a-la-Andaluza-con-Truqui-2.jpg
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02:27:28 <lambdabot> rdococ said 1d 7h 17m 2s ago: you still working on that peano language?
02:28:25 <boily> hppaaaaaaaavellon[1].
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04:03:48 <HackEgo> [U+3008 LEFT ANGLE BRACKET]
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05:24:56 <zzo38> To add to support music in the terminal emulator, a new number for DECSET and DECRST can be added to enable/disable music. When music is enabled, the DL command has no default, because that would interfere with the music.
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06:48:08 <newsham> anyone have time for an LC evaluation question? http://lpaste.net/350957
06:49:57 <newsham> aiming for "normal order" reduction with "left-most, outter-most redex first". which "always finds a normalising reduction, if one exists"
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07:47:17 <hppavilion1> Don'ta leta the doora hita youa in the assa on the waya outa /s
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08:06:03 <zzo38> There is at least two problems with the existing Node.js SDL bindings. One is that the documentation isn't very good (but least there is some). The other is what I will quote: "And because the bindings handle destroying SDL objects when the wrapping object gets destructed, that means the window will disappear, seemingly randomly. Make sure you keep a reference to all objects you want to persist somewhere, or you might find your window disappearing
08:07:57 <zzo38> It shouldn't do that for windows! Destroying the SDL objects like that will make sense in many cases (such as off-screen surfaces), but for windows that are visible on the screen (and also for audio that is currently playing) it should not do that.
08:08:59 <zzo38> For those reasons, and also because theirs is SDL2 and mine is SDL1, I have started making my own Node.js library for SDL binding.
08:11:30 <zzo38> Is this documentation good so far? https://www.npmjs.com/package/sdlterm Also you can tell me what feature seems missing, too. (I have partially written the code to handle non-MML sound effects, but it is not complete; I will also add support for background music.)
08:13:58 <zzo38> (I already noticed a few mistakes in the documentation which I have fixed.)
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08:48:04 <ais523> hmm, what's the smallest generalization of Collatz that's TC?
08:48:22 <ais523> you can generalize it into something close to Fractran, which is clearly TC, but there might be a smaller generalizatoin
08:48:57 <ais523> zzo38: I'm not sure if there's much point in writing bindings to SDL1 at this point, because SDL1's driver-like functionality is unlikely to be updated for new hardware
08:56:31 <zzo38> Perhaps it is the case, although I happen to like SDL1. Also I think SDL2 does not blit 8-bit surfaces in the same way either, and does text input differently.
08:57:03 <zzo38> Although SDL1 is still exist and so someone may still to add the improvement if needed, to work with existing SDL1 software too.
08:59:57 <zzo38> (I also do not have SDL2 in my computer)
09:00:29 <zzo38> But, this program is public domain and if you want to try to work it with SDL2 as well then you can try.
09:02:20 <zzo38> To convert X mouse cursor shapes into a format usable by SDL, I have written the program: http://sprunge.us/IiKI
09:03:06 <zzo38> It works perfectly as far as I can tell, but does require a X server to be able to do the conversion.
09:04:43 <zzo38> But I don't know why XGetSubImage needs to specify the format, which is already specified in the XImage structure.
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09:55:00 <pledis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU3toSwmb-g this is amazing
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12:34:03 * rdococ waits for someone to tlak
12:38:21 <rdococ> for all in (usernames, i) { i.saySomething() }
12:40:27 <rdococ> while (true) { for all in (usernames, i) { i.saySomething() } }
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14:05:01 <doesthiswork> I couldn't remember my quaternonial multiplication tables yesterday, so I started playing around with 4x4 matricies. The matricies I ended up with look just like the result of partially applying a single argument to the multiplication table.
14:05:13 <doesthiswork> so now I'm thinking about multidimensional matricies
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14:21:38 <izabera> i just deleted hours of work by mistake and i didn't commit the changes in git yet
14:22:11 <izabera> extundelete can't find the file
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14:53:15 <boily> "Conf Agi Tree MR/2 Ambros Contam Invis". I feel effectful.
15:00:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Interstar * New user account
15:08:17 <tswett> I'm reading the manual for the Intel 8008 processor.
15:09:08 <tswett> Neat little thing. Uses 8-bit words everywhere.
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15:09:23 <tswett> Memory addresses are 14 bits.
15:09:59 <tswett> It's pretty obvious how you'd extend that to 16 bits. The only reason addresses are 14 bits is that the actual physical chip only has however many address pins.
15:10:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50687&oldid=50654 * Interstar * (+288) /* Introductions */
15:10:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50688&oldid=50636 * Interstar * (+12) /* Q */
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15:12:10 <tswett> It has 7 registers, each 8 bits. They're called A, B, C, D, E, H, and L.
15:12:54 <tswett> A is the accumulator register. Most arithmetic and logical opcodes implicitly use A as both the destination and one of the sources.
15:13:19 <tswett> Most opcodes behave as though there were an eighth register, M. M is *(H << 8 + L).
15:15:54 <tswett> Oddly enough, there's a one-byte instruction for incrementing any register *except* the A register.
15:16:17 <tswett> Incrementing or decrementing.
15:16:36 <tswett> If you want to increment or decrement the A register, you have to use an add-immediate or subtract-immediate instruction, which is 2 bytes.
15:17:00 <boily> M, as in Middle between High and Low?
15:17:28 <boily> oh. retrobviously.
15:18:50 <tswett> The registers feel pretty cramped. There's only enough room to store 3 memory addresses at a time.
15:22:19 <tswett> But I guess you can always spill over into memory.
15:28:00 <tswett> There are no bitwise logic operators. Only logical logic.
15:28:20 <tswett> Oh, and there's no multiplication, either.
15:32:21 <rdococ> wut what wut wait, what?
15:32:34 <boily> tswett: no multiplication.
15:33:12 <rdococ> tmultiplication: no swett.
15:33:39 <HackEgo> cat \ :-D \ drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ swatter \ useless
15:34:03 <rdococ> ouo . o O ( I am an emoticon, yay )
15:34:59 <tswett> The 8008 also has a built-in call stack.
15:35:18 <tswett> It holds 7 addresses. Pushing another address means the oldest one is lost.
15:35:32 <tswett> Also, the only way to access the call stack is by using the call and return instructions.
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15:45:11 <sdhand> `cat emoticons/useless
15:45:16 <tswett> /lll/ll//bb/lll/tanebbo
15:45:17 <HackEgo> オラオラオラ（三･o･）三☆三（｀ε´三）無駄無駄無駄無駄
15:50:02 <HackEgo> cat \ :-D \ drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ swatter \ useless
15:51:09 <tswett> `run echo '¯\_(ツ)_/¯' > emoticons/shrug2
15:51:37 <tswett> `cat emoticons/drowning
15:51:45 <tswett> Yeah, that's what I was expecting.
15:52:13 <boily> rdococ: it is customary to porthello Taneb in the vocative case. Tanelle hth
15:53:37 <oerjan> @tell newsham do the lazyeval(e1) _before_ branching on whether the result is ABSTR, and don't recurse on lazyEval(Apply(e1, e2))
15:53:45 <oerjan> @tell newsham if it isn't.
15:53:57 <oerjan> stupid end-of-line copying
15:54:28 <oerjan> actually the second message is redundant
15:55:56 <tswett> So I'm kind of mulling over the idea of writing a "retro-style game system" that uses the 8008 as its CPU architecture.
15:56:07 <HackEgo> Meow~~ >^.^< \ ☺ \ lol \ 凸 \ ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ \ (°Д°) \ (≧∇≦)/ \ ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ \ ーー蟲蟲 \ オラオラオラ（三･o･）三☆三（｀ε´三）無駄無駄無駄無駄
15:57:06 <FireFly> tswett: hmm, do you know about Arne's similar projects? https://androidarts.com/palette/Famicube.htm https://androidarts.com/Amiga/MSX.htm https://androidarts.com/Amiga/SBC.htm
15:57:42 <tswett> I meant an emulator, actually.
15:58:53 <oerjan> boily: maybe rdococ thinks Taneb is a Czech woman
15:59:04 <Taneb> It's not inconcievable
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16:01:12 <tswett> So I'm pond'rin' what I should do about the limitations of the 8008.
16:01:36 <tswett> No bitwise logic, or multiplication, division, any of that fun stuff.
16:02:03 <boily> tswett: use a bunch of them in parallel as coprocessors?
16:02:21 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
16:02:38 <Taneb> `people who taneb is not
16:02:39 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: people: not found
16:02:43 <Taneb> `? people who taneb is not
16:02:44 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
16:02:44 <boily> `slwd Taneb//s/genders,/genders, one of which is a Czech woman,/
16:02:51 <oerjan> boily: apparently polish also works, might be more plausible in this channel
16:02:54 <tswett> No computed jumps. If you have a memory address in registers H and L, and you want to jump to that address, you have to do it by writing that address to a jump instruction that you have lying around in memory somewhere.
16:03:05 <oerjan> see e.g. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ewa
16:03:24 <oerjan> boily: wisdoms are lower case
16:03:32 <boily> `slwd taneb//s/genders,/genders, one of which is a Czech woman,/
16:03:34 <HackEgo> taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions
16:04:21 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
16:04:48 <boily> I think Taneb is now the wisdomest of them all.
16:04:52 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
16:04:54 <HackEgo> "Only sane adverb" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:05:18 <oerjan> well, since he overflows it...
16:05:49 <oerjan> `slwd taneb//s/he has/has/
16:05:51 <HackEgo> taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
16:05:55 <tswett> I'm thinkin' that I want to work around the 8008's limitations by doing some memory-mapping goodness.
16:06:05 <oerjan> is that too dodgy grammar?
16:07:05 <boily> `le/rn boily//“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:07:07 <HackEgo> Relearned 'boily': “Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:07:28 <tswett> The real-life 8008 has an address space of 16 K. I can divide that into 4 pages of 4 K each. Then I can initially have one page for ROM, one for RAM, and one for the Special Magical Mapped Memory Area (SMMMA).
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16:07:50 <tswett> There can be a region in the SMMMA for the call stack. Boom, now it's accessible.
16:08:12 <tswett> Another region in the SMMMA that contains stuff like A * B and A ^ B. Boom, now you can do bitwise stuff and multiplication.
16:09:36 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
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16:10:11 <rdococ> borons are the particles of capitalism
16:10:16 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
16:12:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/boily//"Only sane adverb" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
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16:12:45 <rdococ> I'm bored, and I want to create something esoteric. any ideas?
16:13:20 <rdococ> maluntypedlambdacalculusbolge would just be ridiculous...
16:14:05 <oerjan> boily: just checking what you changed, since you wilely didn't use `slwd
16:14:34 <oerjan> ridiculous can also be esoteric.
16:15:12 <rdococ> wonder if I could implement higher order functions with GOTO and RETURN only...
16:15:14 <HackEgo> cd wisdom; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
16:15:27 <rdococ> RETURN being an instruction that returns to the last GOTO executed
16:15:32 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
16:16:04 <oerjan> hm that's just not going to work.
16:16:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QaSaC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50689 * Interstar * (+5260) Created page with "QaSaC ("Queues and Stacks and Combinators", the elements from which the language is built) is a cross between a stack-based [[ConcatenativeLanguage]] like [[Forth]] and [[Joy]..."
16:16:52 * oerjan considered making it lowercase automatically, but the separation of key and content is done by sled
16:17:24 <rdococ> of course, I cooould use an encryption
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16:24:54 * oerjan eats his second last nutella ball
16:26:06 <fizzie> The other day I bought a chocolate orange.
16:26:13 <fizzie> It's apparently a thing here in the UK.
16:26:15 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry's_Chocolate_Orange
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16:27:15 <fizzie> I guess mostly because I was offered a job here.
16:27:44 <fizzie> (This isn't really news, I've been here for the last two years.)
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16:28:30 <fizzie> "At one time it was estimated that the Chocolate Orange was found in a tenth of British Christmas stockings."
16:28:34 <fizzie> Interesting benchmark.
16:30:19 <rdococ> mmm chocolate oranges?
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16:33:17 <oerjan> fizzie: oh and they shrunk it like the toblerone did...
16:33:42 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: London. You asked me this same question in May 2016.
16:33:58 <oerjan> fizzie remembers all, with the power of science
16:34:06 <fizzie> The power of grep in this case.
16:36:48 <Taneb> I'm getting closer to having finished at York :(
16:37:09 <Taneb> Then I will have to figure out a new place to be
16:37:49 * oerjan finds today's mezzacotta strangely amusing. must be the chocolate ball.
16:48:51 <tswett> I want a chocolate orange.
16:50:11 <tswett> So I'm pondering computed gotos and the call stack and whatnot.
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16:52:14 <tswett> You could memory-map the instruction pointer. The only problem with that is that it doesn't work.
16:52:34 <tswett> The instruction pointer is two bytes, and you can only write one byte at a time.
16:53:04 <tswett> So if you try to write two bytes to the instruction pointer, then you'll write one, but before you can write the other you'll find yourself having forgotten what you were doing.
16:54:42 <oerjan> that sounds like a challenge
16:55:42 <tswett> Now, it's not difficult to just reserve a location in RAM to use as your indirect jump thing.
16:56:15 <tswett> I'm trying to find holes in the instruction set, here. It's pretty tightly packed.
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17:01:11 <tswett> Instructions of the form 001xx010 don't seem to have a defined meaning.
17:03:36 <tswett> The expected meaning of 00111000 would be "increment memory location", but it's actually undefined. Likewise, 00111001 would be "decrement memory location" but it's undefined.
17:08:36 <tswett> Yeah, those are the gaps.
17:08:52 <tswett> Of course, in the actual 8008, those must have done *something*.
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17:15:54 <moony> im (re) installing BYOND
17:16:12 <moony> so i cna play urist mcstation (a bay12forums SS13 game)
17:18:02 * moony derps a derpy derped derp and runs from the derped derpy derped derp implosion of derped derpyness before derping the derp award for most derped derpy derped derps in a derpy derped sentence
17:18:06 <tswett> Maybe I should base this stuff on the 8080 instead.
17:19:16 * rdococ something something derp
17:29:11 <oerjan> `le/rn derp//"Derp" (d.): to derp a derpy derp, thus derpily derping derpishly.
17:29:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'derp': "Derp" (d.): to derp a derpy derp, thus derpily derping derpishly.
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18:34:06 <rdococ> so my current idea for "Peano" is literally untyped lambda calculus...
18:34:17 <rdococ> now how to make it untyped hambda crazyculus?
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18:56:08 <rdococ> true can be defined as λa.λb.a... or function true (function a, function b) { return a }... or true(a, b) := a...
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20:27:34 <newsham> i ended up just making my func do a single redex each time, outtermost leftmost. and then iterating till convergence.
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21:04:14 <zzo38> Is the way I implemented the communication of main thread and audio thread OK?
21:06:02 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
21:06:44 <int-e> zzo38: Your telepathic interface leaves to be desired, it cut out all the context from your question.
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21:08:24 <int-e> (I'm probably not even interested in the question, but I'm still annoyed by the incomleteness of information. And I'm even more peeved because I should be used to it by now, but it still gets me every single time.)
21:08:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50690&oldid=50687 * FTcode * (+208)
21:08:44 <zzo38> I have two volatile variables mml_cmd and sfx_cmd, which are unsigned char and are 0 to stop, 1 to play, and 2 to begin playing. The variables mml_next and sfx_next are not volatile, but maybe they should be? When playing a new sound effect it does: if(mml_cmd==2 || sfx_cmd==2) { SDL_LockAudio(); mml_cmd=0; sfx_cmd=0; SDL_UnlockAudio(); } mml_cmd=0; sfx_next=sounds+n; sfx_cmd=2;
21:08:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50691 * FTcode * (+3529) Created page with "'''Symbolic Python''' is a way of programming in Python 2 in which only non-alphanumeric characters are allowed in the source code. This was inspired by a challenge on the SE..."
21:09:15 <zzo38> Does sfx_next need to volatile too for it to work properly? Or is there something else wrong?
21:10:15 <zzo38> (Note that the audio thread never writes to sfx_next; it copies data into other variables and then uses those, and only reads sfx_next when sfx_cmd is 2)
21:11:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50692&oldid=50691 * FTcode * (-168)
21:12:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50693&oldid=50692 * FTcode * (+33)
21:13:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50694&oldid=50693 * FTcode * (+53) /* "H", World: */
21:14:03 <int-e> The least that having sfx_next not volatile does is that the writes sfx_next=sounds+n; sfx_cmd=2; can be reordered. It's hard to say whether the write to sfx_next must happen at all.
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21:17:30 <zzo38> Reordering them may cause problems. Probably I should make sfx_next to be volatile. Also in the audio thread it reads sfx_next before setting sfx_cmd=1 so that is the other reason that probably it should be volatile. But do you think what I am doing with locking is correct?
21:19:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50695&oldid=50694 * FTcode * (+410)
21:19:33 <int-e> I'm actually unsure what the memory model provided by C is here, I suspect this requires some explcit barriers.
21:24:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50696&oldid=50695 * FTcode * (+427)
21:24:05 <zzo38> Now I get a warning because memcpy is used to copy a volatile array mml_next into a non-volatile array mml_playing.
21:27:32 <zzo38> I am not sure what is the correct way to handle that; I don't know if it is actually a problem or not.
21:29:15 <zzo38> I could avoid using memcpy if that is necessary.
21:31:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Blablafuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50697&oldid=50634 * Ivancr72 * (+11) Fixed a bug.
21:36:09 <zzo38> And still I want to know about whether the locking is correct.
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21:48:16 <zzo38> I also have a variable mml_volume which is read by the audio thread and written by the main thread, but as far as I can tell it is unnecessary to set this variable as volatile, because a pointer to the audio callback function is previously passed to a SDL function, and SDL_WaitEvent is guaranteed to be called directly after mml_volume is written anyways, so it seems OK to me to not make that one volatile because the ordering is unnecessary.
21:53:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50698&oldid=50696 * FTcode * (+59) Added new example value
21:56:28 <int-e> the memcpy appears to be undefined behavior ("An attempt is made to refer to an object defined with a volatile-qualified type through")
21:56:33 <int-e> "...use of an lvalue with non-volatile-qualified type"
21:59:34 <int-e> . o O ( naptime! )
22:07:02 <zzo38> I did change it to use a for loop instead
22:07:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50699&oldid=50698 * FTcode * (+77) /* Example Implementation */
22:13:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50700&oldid=50699 * FTcode * (-6) fixed bug
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22:40:34 <\oren\> unfortunately, I forgot to obtain a displayport-HDMI adapter
22:43:09 <Taneb> `? pointless topology
22:43:18 <HackEgo> pointless topology? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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23:31:21 <zzo38> How many of computer programs you will commonly (or nearly commonly) using are program you write by yourself?
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23:39:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50701&oldid=50700 * FTcode * (+702) Added new example
23:40:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50702&oldid=50701 * FTcode * (-13)
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02:49:33 <HackEgo> Topology is another name for topos theory.
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03:38:48 <int-e> snow, who needs snow, what is it good for...
03:38:51 <HackEgo> Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targeryan. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
03:40:10 <int-e> fizzie: HELP! fungot got lost!
03:40:48 <oerjan> `slwd snow//s/erya/arye/
03:40:53 <HackEgo> snow//Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
03:41:14 <oerjan> i don't even watch it, and still i saw it was wrong. sheesh people...
03:41:51 <int-e> I don't remember names
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03:42:54 <int-e> For example, the Sturmvoraus family was "Sturmv???" to me until I realized that the v??? parts is also a german word.
03:44:01 * oerjan notes that we haven't got grandmas last name. or first, iirc.
03:46:43 <int-e> Oh another addition to the Internet of blank pages (aka Web 3.0?) https://www.speakdotdot.com/ ... will wait for the wikipedia page. ("On Tuesday, ZigBee announced Dotdot, which it calls a universal language for IoT.")
03:47:19 <oerjan> another thing i noted: during beausoleil's betrayal rant he mentioned that van rijn "could transfer life from flesh to machine, and _back again_"
03:48:06 <oerjan> which sounds a lot like what we saw demonstrated in lucre[tz]ia's lab
03:48:22 <oerjan> (see, even i don't remember _all_ the names)
03:49:19 <int-e> I'm sure you've found http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Drusus_Beausoleil by now.
03:49:25 <oerjan> anyway, i suspect the other may have stolen his devices. and possibly those of many other sparks.
03:50:00 <oerjan> especially when typing at the same time with lag
03:51:45 <int-e> So can minds be duplicated?
03:53:04 <oerjan> ...that was also demonstrated.
03:53:24 <int-e> (Hmm, an army of identical clones... let's have another look at those dancers?)
03:53:35 <oerjan> that's how zola got access to the other's memories.
03:54:05 <int-e> semi-rhetorical question
03:54:45 <int-e> nah, the dancers show signs of individuality
03:54:53 <oerjan> lucrezia _intended_ to just overwrite her mind, but zola claimed that would destroy her too.
03:55:10 <int-e> (skin color, mostly, because we've not really seen them up close)
03:56:28 <int-e> Zola also said something about research and preparation at the time, mmm. No, I'm not going to re-read it all just for that.
03:59:45 <oerjan> they'd got information from the treasonous geisterdame.
03:59:51 <int-e> Actually the Count with the many clanks also has potential for a twist: Maybe the real human one perished a long time ago.
04:00:48 <oerjan> there might not be a "real" one
04:01:35 <oerjan> which might be why he's so interested in rijn's ability to transfer _back again_
04:02:43 <oerjan> also, since lucrezia has this technology, that makes it likely it's her people he's working for (although that was likely anyway)
04:03:25 <oerjan> (or zola's. i wonder if the anevka version is also around...)
04:04:00 <oerjan> i have this hunch that anevka would be suspicious of zola's current behavior...
04:04:19 <oerjan> (since lucrezia might not do things that way)
04:04:47 <oerjan> *lunevka, is the wiki term
04:06:56 <oerjan> although, gil's observation that there doesn't seem to be any "new" other technology might imply that only zola is around... presumably lucrezia cannot invent things while her mind is imprisoned.
04:07:12 <int-e> but wasn't lunevka playing nurse in mechanicsburg...
04:07:30 <oerjan> but it's not a given they both got away...
04:07:54 <int-e> I'd expect Lunevka to stick around Klaus
04:08:07 <int-e> which means she ought to be stuck.
04:08:17 <oerjan> that's true. and the hospital was attacked, i recall.
04:08:48 <int-e> but oh, he landed, right?
04:08:51 <oerjan> klaus left for wulfenbach castle. then he came back alone.
04:09:08 <int-e> so it's all unclear, fog of war
04:09:33 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure we haven't seen lunevka since the hospital.
04:10:37 <oerjan> otoh if my theory that the other stole much of her technology by using time travel is right, then she may simply be cut off from new inventions at the moment.
04:11:09 <oerjan> if she wasn't _really_ that brilliant herself.
04:12:20 <oerjan> although we don't know how lucrezia got set up as the other in the first place.
04:12:21 <int-e> so... any bets whether GG will end this year? :P
04:12:51 <oerjan> i didn't have that feeling.
04:13:45 <oerjan> i vaguely recall there being some kind of old estimate for how long the story would take, but they'll probably always be tempted to add something more.
04:14:30 <int-e> Well, on the one hand there's a big convergence happening.
04:14:40 <int-e> On the other hand we still have to get to the time traveling part.
04:14:45 <int-e> I just don't know :)
04:15:06 <oerjan> i'm assuming they have to get to the geisterdamen world.
04:15:21 <oerjan> where the devices are.
04:15:34 <int-e> (And they might want to get Mechanicsburg out of the time bubble, too, lest those transdimensional whatever creatures take over.)
04:15:39 <oerjan> (and the architecture looked alien)
04:16:07 <oerjan> yeah. maybe the dreen will help against the big one.
04:16:50 <oerjan> but who knows how such a species thinks, they may consider everything inevitable anyway.
04:17:38 <int-e> So I guess it's more than a year still.
04:18:34 <oerjan> i'm wondering if they'll end up finding the real Storm King's abducted Heterodyne lady
04:18:55 <oerjan> or at least find out what _really_ happened to her.
04:19:02 <int-e> And I suppose you're right that the Foglios can go on for as long as they want... they have a whole world to explore. We could go on a journey to find Zeetha's island, for example.
04:19:15 <int-e> Just to fill some time :-P
04:19:42 <oerjan> hm i don't remember it being said to be an island.
04:19:46 <int-e> (though hopefully not right now)
04:20:02 <oerjan> i was more assuming some deep jungle thing
04:20:32 <int-e> I'm picturing one of the carribean islands from Monkey Island ;-)
04:20:35 <oerjan> or mountain, like shangri-la
04:21:19 <int-e> But you have probably given it more thought than I have.
04:22:33 <oerjan> right now, i'm hoping agatha's clown clank shows up wiping out most of the geisterdamen, ruining zola's plan :)
04:24:13 <HackEgo> [U+03D5 GREEK PHI SYMBOL]
04:25:06 <HackEgo> [U+03D5 GREEK PHI SYMBOL]
04:27:26 <HackEgo> [U+2C77 LATIN SMALL LETTER TAILLESS PHI]
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04:31:17 <HackEgo> [U+1D6FF MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL DELTA]
04:34:39 <fizzie> Ooh, a long time since that last happened.
04:34:59 <fizzie> RAW >>> :wolfe.freenode.net NOTICE fungot :Server Terminating. e <<<
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04:36:30 <fungot> int-e: sarahbot do you watch diggnation? ummm " work"? what do you teach?
04:36:40 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
04:37:55 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
04:38:01 <fungot> FreeFull: it is said to have assumed mortal form and inhabited the dungeon anymore, nyuk nyuk.
04:38:29 <int-e> * indicates the current style
04:38:47 <int-e> you knew that, right...
04:40:56 <int-e> Snow plowing is great, but doing it at 5:40 in the morning on a Sunday seems a bit extreme.
04:42:05 <int-e> (there's some company doing this stuff in front of the house I'm living in; this isn't even a public street)
04:43:35 <int-e> Wait, ransomware on smart TVs... somehow I didn't see it coming.
04:46:41 <fungot> FreeFull: they say that a cave spider will occasionally eat cave spider eggs. xander: i observed here, i read you for warmth as you try to wear anything in particular made their dresses tightly round the eyes of the jug, whom fafhrd chose to serve, was called charon. the thick black hair, escaping as it could be made to shrink in size and power and authority. ' saruman!' said gandalf. with his master was to return from work hac
04:46:58 <int-e> (Despite a lengthy sequence of jokes about ransomware for cars from 33c3's "security nightmares".)
04:47:30 <FreeFull> Did you hear about the TV ransomware? =P
04:48:49 <int-e> https://consumerist.com/2017/01/06/ransomware-spreading-onto-smart-tvs-is-a-pain-to-fix/
04:49:39 <int-e> I find it funny that the ransomware asks for $500 and support asks for $340... clearly there's some room for optimization on the ransomware side.
04:50:08 <int-e> (though perhaps they added a convenience fee because the $340 is for bring in service)
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05:32:02 <\oren\> solution, don't buy a smart tv
05:32:58 <\oren\> or just don't connect your tv to the internet
05:32:59 <pikhq> Problem: find one.
05:36:55 <\oren\> buy a large computer monitor
05:37:12 <pikhq> What am I, made of money?
05:37:52 <pikhq> The invisible hand hath decided thou shalt only have cheap displays that have even cheaper ARM SOCs with firmware written by monkeys in them!
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05:46:11 <\oren\> well my new tv is dumb and it is working good https://snag.gy/ABmXzo.jpg
05:48:04 <pikhq> For definitions of "good" that include display 4:3 at 16:9.
05:48:24 <\oren\> oh whoops I didn;t notice that
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05:50:51 <\oren\> maybe that explains why I can't even beat world 1
05:55:48 <\oren\> well I fixed the aspect ratio https://snag.gy/Sza5wv.jpg
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07:35:06 <izabera> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/106066/14676 \o/ just finished this
07:52:33 <FreeFull> That problem is unfairly easy with brainfuck =P
08:00:31 <izabera> `` x=0; echo $((++x))$((x+x+x+++x**x))$x
08:00:42 <izabera> find a shorter way to write 172
08:04:25 <izabera> `` x=0; echo $((++x))$((x+++++x+x--))$x
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10:37:40 <rdococ> the boredom carrying particle
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11:32:15 <wob_jonas> Hi. Can you guys load the channel logs from tunes.org ?
11:32:52 <shachaf> I had some trouble getting logs from tunes.org a few hours ago.
11:34:10 <shachaf> HackEgo has nothing to do with tunes.org
11:34:19 <wob_jonas> Now I can't review the logs to measure how hype this channel is for AGDQ starting in a few hours.
11:34:39 <wob_jonas> Really? I thought they were connected. Ok.
11:35:03 <wob_jonas> I mean, both of them are sort of in mostly abandonned autopilot state (just like my bot, which is over ten years old by the way).
11:36:04 <shachaf> tunes.org logs come from clog, which isn't #esoteric-specific.
11:36:21 <shachaf> I don't know whether it's abandoned.
11:39:51 <wob_jonas> shachaf: HackEgo isn't necessarily #esoteric-specific either. I can privmsg it, and it might even be joined to other channels I don't know about.
11:40:40 <wob_jonas> But even if it's esoteric-specific, I don't see that being an obstable.
11:40:57 <wob_jonas> You can make a bot on one channel and logs for five channels you're interested about,.
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11:42:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50703&oldid=50702 * FTcode * (+39)
11:43:30 <shachaf> I don't know where clog/tunes.org came from, but they also log much bigger channels like #haskell
11:43:52 <wob_jonas> No way. The haskell logs are somewhere else.
11:45:37 <wob_jonas> Um, as in, I downloaded years' worth of logs once, really an overkill, I just wanted to search for some particular discussion.
12:00:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50704&oldid=50703 * FTcode * (-196)
12:01:37 <wob_jonas> Meanwhile, the calesyta webpage also seems to be down.
12:01:57 <wob_jonas> It went down around like 2017-01-01 iirc.
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12:07:42 <wob_jonas> So, on a scale of meh to best week ever, how hype is this channel about AGDQ 2016, which will start in a few hours?
12:14:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50705&oldid=50704 * FTcode * (+124)
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12:42:41 <rdococ> I coooould have classes and function overloading to simulate first class & higher order functions
12:43:35 <rdococ> but would that allow creation of them on the fly?
12:43:41 <rdococ> could also use currying to do the trick
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13:39:07 <rdococ> oh my god someone talk
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15:46:10 <boily> sdhellond, rdochelloc.
15:51:23 <rdococ> rdococIsLonely = λa.λb.b
15:51:57 <rdococ> please make sure rdococIsLonely = λa.λb.b...
15:52:09 * rdococ doesn't want rdococIsLonely = λa.λb.a
15:54:02 <sdhand> and doesn't know lambda calculus
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16:22:17 <boily> sdhand: you should eat a phở. it is good.
16:23:00 <sdhand> what is that last character of phở
16:23:49 <HackEgo> U+1EDF LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH HORN AND HOOK ABOVE \ UTF-8: e1 bb 9f UTF-16BE: 1edf Decimal: ở \ ở (Ở) \ Uppercase: U+1EDE \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 01A1 0309
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16:28:13 <boily> zgr... ello... p... HackEgo... has... its... own... spa... cetime... ref... ere... ntial...
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16:30:44 <oerjan> fternoily. it just likes to keep us on our toes
16:31:39 <boily> boerjan matin. my toes are being kept on indeed.
16:35:48 <boily> speaking of phở...
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16:58:44 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> Hi. Can you guys load the channel logs from tunes.org ? <-- YEP
17:03:20 -!- oerjan has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
17:06:55 <oerjan> `learn Boron is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it.
17:07:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'boron': Boron is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it.
17:09:12 <oerjan> `slwd boron//s/is/(B) is/
17:09:44 <HackEgo> boron//Boron (B) is the element of boredom. Stars hate boredom, so refuse to make it.
17:33:42 <rdococ> Boron, however, can be created by fusing Capitalism (Capitalism) particles.
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17:35:46 <oerjan> (Capitalism) is too long to be the symbol.
17:36:14 <oerjan> try (Ev) or something.
17:38:19 <izabera> "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Deport him and you do not have to feed him again." -- Trump 20:16
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18:07:22 <rdococ> Capitalism thinks it's so important it gave itself a long symbol.
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19:06:03 <rdococ> hppavilion1: bored(rdococ) is equivalent to λa.λb.a... help
19:07:44 <doesthiswork> I was reading bash and I just found a quote from this channel
19:09:13 <boily> doesthelloswork. we have quotes on bash?
19:09:39 <izabera> honestly you're not even trying anymore
19:10:25 <doesthiswork> "<boily> you click in the emptiness and drag."
19:10:42 <doesthiswork> <quintopia> boily: this sounds like a philosophy of life
19:12:04 <boily> doesthiswork: it's on qdb.us but not bash.org.
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19:54:02 <Zarutian> izabera: isnt he going to deport 'third generation immigrants' too? If so then he has to deport himself.
19:55:57 <pikhq> I only recall him saying he'd deport illegal immigrants.
19:56:09 <pikhq> ... His wife was an illegal immigrant.
19:56:35 <zzo38> Someone told me that he predicted that Trump will quit.
19:57:31 <zzo38> By time we would see.
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20:14:11 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/y3wAHK.jpg
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20:36:06 <int-e> https://i.snag.gy/y3wAHK.jpg maybe
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20:54:32 <DHeadshot> \oren\: You're saying KSP works on Windows 98? Steam barely works on XP!
20:55:14 <pikhq> At one point in time Steam probably did support Windows 98.
20:55:18 <pikhq> Steam is pretty dang old.
20:55:30 <int-e> XP can be configured to use that window layout
20:55:50 <pikhq> Windows *10* can be configured to look like that, even.
20:56:09 <DHeadshot> int-e: It's not quite the same - you can tell...
20:56:14 <int-e> probably, but XP made it easy (no additional installations)
20:56:54 <DHeadshot> int-e: look at the icons on the right
20:57:22 <int-e> I did. Your point?
20:59:28 <int-e> I know it's not the standard look of XP, but it's quite easy to get XP to look like that, at least closely enough that I can't tell the difference.
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21:05:26 <int-e> finally, a screenshot: http://www.computermuseum.co/Windows/XP/img/Windows-Classic.png
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23:12:25 <HackEgo> matrix//A matrix is just a matrix. Taneb invented them.
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23:13:39 <HackEgo> `slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
23:14:03 <FireFly> `slwd matrix//s/Taneb/People use them to communicate. &/
23:14:06 <HackEgo> matrix//A matrix is just a matrix. People use them to communicate. Taneb invented them.
23:27:59 <HackEgo> tachyon//The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
23:28:12 <HackEgo> A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal.
23:30:33 <boily> I wouldn't mind cuddly floating penguins that you could *bop*
23:51:47 <tswett> So here's an important philosophical question.
23:51:54 <tswett> Which weeks are "even weeks" and which weeks are "odd weeks"?
23:53:47 <tswett> January 1, 1601 was a Monday. So was January 1, 2001.
23:55:09 <tswett> In the proleptic Gregorian calendar, January 1 1201, January 1 801, January 1 401, and January 1 1 were all Mondays as well.
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00:02:58 <tswett> So I think it would make the most sense to say that the week of January 1, 1 was "week 1", and therefore an odd week.
00:03:06 <tswett> This would mean that January 1, 2001 was an even week.
00:10:53 <boily> wouldn't it be logicker to always consider the week with January 1 as always odd?
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00:25:09 <boily> Gregor: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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00:40:37 <HackEgo> politics//Politics: See lies.
00:41:13 <HackEgo> reference is dangling, sorry.
00:49:17 <fizzie> Odd weeks have an odd number of days, and even weeks have an even number of days.
00:49:22 <fizzie> These days most weeks are odd.
00:50:18 <boily> fizziello. are you discordian?
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00:57:34 <quintopia> boily: are you gonna be watching any gdq this week?
00:58:14 <boily> I ought to. I never watched any.
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01:14:38 <oerjan> Yurume______: you need an underscorectomy
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01:19:41 <HackEgo> http//HTTP is short for 'hipster technology trading platform'.
01:19:43 <HackEgo> cumin//Cumin is a quantum tanebvented spice, only if it doesn't involve sex.
01:20:28 <boily> . o O ( what the fungot was I thinking about when I wrote that... )
01:20:28 <fungot> boily: they say that the wizard has hired some help. twenty other arms came rippling out. ( van dale's groot woordenboek der nederlandse taal)
01:21:07 <boily> thinking about a twenty armed dutch wizard, apparently.
01:21:20 <oerjan> boily: my inability to see "cumin" without thinking of something very different hth
01:22:07 * boily recites a sanity mantra. “amortized... amortized... amortized...”
01:22:38 <oerjan> i see you forgot the words
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01:23:41 <boily> the weather is splitty tonight...
01:23:49 <oerjan> boily: probably twenty-two. it says _other_ arms, after all.
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01:24:45 <oerjan> are they doing maintenance or getting dos'ed...
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01:26:07 <boily> it's true that wizards have two arms on average.
01:27:14 <oerjan> i guess you are referring to the fact the average number of arms on humans is slightly less than 2...
01:28:32 <oerjan> otoh wizard would be excessively likely to add some extra.
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01:28:55 <boily> two is a good approximation to approximatively two.
01:32:50 <HackEgo> myname//myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother.
01:33:14 <HackEgo> loudly//Did you mean: loudly
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01:34:13 <HackEgo> 9899:2016-12-09 <Zarutiän> learn bf See: brainfuck \ 9901:2016-12-10 <oerjän> slwd bf//s,bf ,, \ 10113:2017-01-09 <boil̈y> ` rm wisdom/bf \ 10114:2017-01-09 <boil̈y> revert
01:36:18 <oerjan> `` \? "$(\? loudly | sed 's/.* //')"
01:36:54 <HackEgo> loudly//Did you mean: loudly
01:36:57 <oerjan> `` \? "$(\? loudly | sed 's/.* //')"
01:37:35 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, itertools, locale, locale \ inp = len(sys.argv) >= 2 and sys.argv[1] or raw_input() \ cyc = itertools.cycle(["\00304,09","\00309,04"]) \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())
01:38:18 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/loudly", line 5, in <module> \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in unicode(inp, locale.getpreferredencoding())).encode(locale.getpreferredencoding()) \ UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
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01:40:59 <HackEgo> #esoteric//#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone.
01:41:24 <zzo38> Some TV cable boxes have "HD priority" feature. But I think it should also include SD priority option, and also to be able to set this option seperately for line and for recording.
01:41:41 <boily> hezzo38. HD priority?
01:42:58 <zzo38> Sometimes it will automatically switch the SD channel to the HD channel or it will prompt you every time.
01:43:48 <HackEgo> 8) <Madelon> Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 889) <shachaf> FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE
01:44:08 <oerjan> must have been terminated.
01:44:42 <quintopia> boily: so when are we going to shoot things again
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01:46:20 <zzo38> To shoot what thing?
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01:47:04 <quintopia> boily: exactly yes, or within a day of yes, or yes unless it needs to be postponed until maybe?
01:47:56 <boily> zzo38: random yelling people that need to be shooted at, and a sassy droid.
01:49:09 <oerjan> <FireFly> `slwd matrix//s/Taneb/People use them to communicate. &/ <-- wat?
01:49:55 <shachaf> I don't think wisdom entries need every possible interpretation of a word in them.
01:50:15 <oerjan> it's just that i don't recognize that interpretation
01:50:33 <shachaf> i assume it's matrix.org hth
01:51:57 <oerjan> huh, `wisdom returned tachyon
01:52:22 <oerjan> i _still_ get the sense that it's unreasonably frequently returning the newest additions
01:53:01 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
01:53:17 <oerjan> it's really all about shuf, i guess
01:53:23 <HackEgo> narutoverse//narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus.
01:53:36 <boily> ↑ it can also return very old wisdoms.
01:53:40 <HackEgo> stephen wolfram//Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
01:53:41 <oerjan> now it's mocking me by ... right
01:54:05 <boily> the wisdom and I have a special telepathic connection.
01:54:12 <HackEgo> 10044:2016-12-30 <zgrëp> le/rn feather//A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal. \ 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 198:2012-04-08
01:54:44 <oerjan> `` hg cat -r 10043 wisdom/feather
01:54:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/feather: no such file in rev c4871a1f40f9
01:55:08 <HackEgo> 187:2012-04-07 <ellioẗt> (unknown command) \ 191:2012-04-07 <ellioẗt> (unknown command) \ 198:2012-04-08 <oerjän> revert 193 \ 199:2012-04-08 <ellioẗt> revert \ 10044:2016-12-30 <zgrëp> le/rn feather//A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feath
01:56:17 <oerjan> how did that unknown command happen...
01:56:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/wisdom/feather
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02:01:49 <izabera> http://micsymposium.org/mics_2011_proceedings/mics2011_submission_13.pdf nice
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02:29:23 <zzo38> The character I made up for GURPS game they also have feathers, and also the scales, antenna,long beak, too.
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02:31:03 <oerjan> did freefall just do a big time jump
02:32:33 <oerjan> (big for freefall, that is)
02:32:50 <zzo38> How much is big for a free fall?
02:33:04 <oerjan> i don't know that it's ever skipped an entire day before
02:34:12 <oerjan> (i suppose they _could_ be doing the trial this fast.)
02:36:59 <Zarutian> what is free fall? an webcomic or something like that?
02:37:32 <oerjan> http://freefall.purrsia.com/
02:38:05 <Zarutian> neat! it is even in the Catdom Empire!
02:38:16 <oerjan> you might not want to read that last comic first if you dislike spoilers
02:40:18 * oerjan doesn't know what the Catdom Empire is
02:41:18 <oerjan> but it's sort of furry, i guess, despite having only one furry main cast member
02:41:39 <\oren\> it's funny how the mechanical and metaphorical meanings of the word "overdrive" are opposite
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02:43:54 <\oren\> well yeah, it's usually implied to be an "even higher" level of power or whatver, while mechanically, an overdrive means you're reducing power to increase efficiency
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03:54:30 <tswett> You know what's funny?
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07:05:01 <lifthrasiir> I have removed excess underscores by removing a now-unused client
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07:38:33 <zzo38> Why didn't IBM use the cursor blink function included in MC6845? Instead they implemented their own cursor blink logic.
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07:45:13 <hppavilion2> zzo38: They should've used <BLINK></BLINK>
07:45:52 <zzo38> I doubt they should have used HTML.
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09:22:05 <Taneb> 24 hours to my first exam of the year
09:26:48 <Taneb> Time to finally learn Algebraic Geometry
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09:29:22 <b_jonas> Taneb: ouch. how much of algebraic geometry? very advanced stuff?
09:29:52 <Taneb> b_jonas, well, I don't know what I haven't learnt, but it's a masters-level module
09:31:26 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
09:31:57 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
09:32:08 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
09:32:31 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
09:32:39 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
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09:42:05 <shachaf> Taneb: are you also learning geometric algebra
09:42:18 <Taneb> Gonna do that next week I think
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09:46:24 <Taneb> b_jonas, we're only dealing with affine varieties, with projective varieties in the apendix
11:06:07 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/aVUO Does it look a proper implementation of X resource manager to you?
11:14:57 <b_jonas> Taneb: I'm not sure what that even means, but ok
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11:40:54 <HackEgo> monads//Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.
11:40:54 <HackEgo> internet//The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
12:06:18 <rdococ> back for like an hour or so
12:06:43 <rdococ> imagine a number # whose derivative is nonzero
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12:12:27 <b_jonas> yep, tunes.org logs are up now
12:17:35 <b_jonas> also, apparently if you want to make a fancy sounding prediction in English, you just have to replace " until " with " until such time as " and then what you're saying sounds more wise.
12:22:55 <rdococ> really? until such time as that is proven true, I don't think it's true for each and every case.
12:23:24 <rdococ> oh hey, it works. well, until such time as that is proven false, I agree.
12:24:29 <b_jonas> rdococ: those aren't really predictions
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17:02:32 <dario_> I'm new here, so I would like to introduce myself to you, the community...
17:06:38 <dario_> I'm working on BitBitJump machine derivative versions.
17:08:35 <HackEgo> dario_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
17:09:43 <dario_> The interesting area for BitBitJump experimentations is program code production: it's a good field for experimenting code optimizations. This is an area I feel it is related to FPGAs and URISC computing.
17:12:47 <dario_> In fact the instructions set is very reduced to one kind of instruction in 3 phases: read, write, jump.
17:14:57 <dario_> I have tested it partly with designs that include simulated logic gates and multiplexers, so I refer to the FPGA-related part of the research.
17:16:05 <dario_> Now I would like to discuss it here and to contribute to the Wiki.
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18:37:51 <rdococ> Cb could be the opposite of C
18:38:03 <rdococ> just to throw people off
18:40:48 <HackEgo> olist 1062: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
18:41:07 <shachaf> nortti: is your nick supposed to be a c++ compile-time flag twh
18:43:06 <nortti> it's also not supposed to be a colloquial name of a tobacco brand
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18:47:40 <Zarutian> rdococ: it was deemed too sharp to be stationary, hence it was made mobile
18:50:50 <rdococ> I wonder what kinds of syntactical sugar I should add to a lambda calculus before it becomes a good esoteric programming language
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20:00:30 <int-e> The truth hurts. Have some Ackermann instead: \n. n (\f m. m f (f (\g. g))) (\n f x. n f (f x))
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20:17:50 <\oren\> I was thinking about a procedurally generated programming language. Take a large project in some form such as machine code, lamda calculus, or C, and use some algorithm to determine what pieces of code appear most frequently. Make those things the shortest commands in your language, and you have huffmann coded programming.
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20:24:00 <\oren\> the huffmann coded language might not resemble the original in any way. for maximum golfing, it would probably use the 96 printable ascii characters
20:24:40 <\oren\> as the 96 most common code snippets, and then use the unicode characters as less and less common ones
20:28:21 <\oren\> er, wait there's only 94 printable ascii characters
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21:06:51 <zzo38> In this GURPS game one character has antenna and if cut off it grants anosmia. Then what effect will a hat have on this, do you expect?
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22:08:08 <zzo38> Is there a program to convert PCF fonts to be optimized for one architecture?
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22:21:38 <wob_jonas> OotS => pity Belkar isn't there, he understands how Klingon promotion and killing unpopular people works, he could help here in electing a captain.
22:21:58 <wob_jonas> M:tG => whoa, they're banning cards in Standard. That's not happened for ages.
22:22:29 <wob_jonas> AGDQ => YAY! they're running SUPER MONKEY BALL! A highlight of the event that they didn't have the last GDQ
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22:34:54 <wob_jonas> Wow, this super monkey ball speedrun is amazing
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22:38:40 <\oren\> the devs of the nano editor seem to have reimplemented most of ncurses themselves
22:39:37 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://sprunge.us/UgXJ
22:41:57 <\oren\> I'm attempting to add a new feature to nano that i laked about
22:42:37 <\oren\> iive settled on calling the feature "unicode rich display"
22:43:09 <zzo38> Read documentation if you did not understand
22:43:49 <\oren\> the idea is that you could put various subsitutions in a config file
22:44:26 <\oren\> and have the C code pow(x,2) show up onscreen as x²
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22:45:25 <\oren\> the feature doesn't necessarily involve unicode, but the intended usage does
22:46:07 <zzo38> Even such usage does not necessarily involve unicode if you are using different encodings
22:46:56 <myname> sounds a bit like vims consealing for latex
22:46:59 <zzo38> But can also be done entirely out of ASCII character and in some cases you may want to do stuff other than the character encoding such as colours and so on.
22:49:13 <\oren\> myname: yeah, that's sort of the idea
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22:51:09 <\oren\> but, you know, without it being a modal editor
22:51:36 <shachaf> vim isn't particularly modal
22:52:00 <shachaf> Actually I don't even know what a modal editor is.
22:53:28 <shachaf> There's no such thing in vim.
22:53:40 <\oren\> shachaf: it sure looks like there is
22:53:55 <shachaf> There are insert commands, which are esc-terminated.
22:54:04 <shachaf> For example iabc<esc> is a command that inserts the text abc.
22:54:21 <zzo38> The problem with ex mode in vim I think is that ex mode uses the alternate screen buffer; I have once wanted to use ex mode and keep the commands in the shell visible on the screen at the same time, but vim does not do that.
22:54:26 <shachaf> You can repeat commands, so 3iabc<esc> is a command that inserts the text abcabcabc
22:54:56 <shachaf> If there was such a thing as insert mode you wouldn't be able to do that.
22:55:33 <\oren\> shachaf: but i<up button><esc> doesn't insert "\033[A"
22:55:57 <shachaf> Why would you press up button in the middle of an insert command?
22:56:08 <\oren\> shachaf: to insert something somwhere else?
22:56:17 <shachaf> No, that would be a separate insert command.
22:56:27 <\oren\> shachaf: in vim you can move the cursor around while in insert mode
22:57:16 <shachaf> Seems like an odd thing to do.
22:57:30 <shachaf> I guess it has some odd features. You don't have to use them.
22:58:00 <\oren\> you're forced to use modes
22:58:04 <shachaf> Would you say vim has a "delete mode" that you enter by pressing d?
22:58:14 <zzo38> You can also switch between insert and replace mode with in either by pushing the insert key (like some other editors for PC).
22:58:32 <shachaf> After all, if you press w in "delete mode", it deletes a word, and if you press d in "delete mode", it deletes a line.
22:59:00 <\oren\> anyway I find ed a lot easier to use than vim
22:59:01 <shachaf> You're forced to <esc>-terminate your insert commands, because that's the command syntax.
22:59:02 <zzo38> I think d is the prefix to cause it to delete; you can also type for example dj to delete two lines, this one and below, or dk to delete this line and above.
22:59:17 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, but you can push CTRL and [ instead that also works.
22:59:34 <shachaf> zzo38: Yes, that's another way to <esc>-terminate your commands.
22:59:42 <shachaf> You can also press caps lock, which is what I do.
22:59:45 <zzo38> (Because it has the same ASCII code)
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23:02:37 <\oren\> well vim would be a lot easier to use if it had a help bar like nano does
23:03:22 <zzo38> The use of the help bar is to get in the way.
23:03:32 <myname> most awesome feature a terminal editor can have
23:03:52 <shachaf> It would be better if it had a ribbon like Microsoft Office.
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23:05:13 <lambdabot> CYUL 092236Z 16012KT 15SM BKN050 BKN100 OVC140 M09/M15 A3042 RMK SC5AC2AC1 SLP305
23:06:25 <\oren\> actually, if escape leaves insert mode and dd deletes a line, then in insert mode can I press alt-d d to delete a line?
23:06:41 <zzo38> I don't like the ribbon either it also waste space
23:07:09 <shachaf> Using vim when you believe in insert mode must be unpleasant.
23:07:43 <\oren\> shachaf: what do you call the state the editor is in when [INSERT] appears a tthe bottom of the terminal
23:07:53 <myname> it hardly plays any role on wether it is a mode or not
23:08:06 <shachaf> What do you call the state when you press d?
23:09:31 <myname> i actually couldn't care less about insert being a mode or a command
23:09:45 <shachaf> Of course it doesn't actually matter.
23:09:47 <myname> except the times i actually do 3iabc and am annoyed by it
23:10:14 <shachaf> But if you're going around, "being in insert mode", pressing the arrow keys to move around, and then you press <esc>...<i> to run commands, of course you won't like vim.
23:11:05 <myname> if you solely move witz arrow keys, i agree
23:11:21 * boily <iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii> ♪
23:12:06 <\oren\> i mean the most common operations in editing can ll be done from insert mode, viz, writng text, moving, deleting text.
23:12:48 <myname> it just defies vim of what it's good at
23:13:18 <\oren\> myname: what is it good at
23:17:09 <myname> but i do think kakoune is better at those
23:17:17 <myname> i just can't get started yet
23:19:38 <myname> http://kakoune.org/why-kakoune/why-kakoune.html also explains what's nice in vim
23:22:33 <\oren\> hmm but it's like I have all these F keys on top of my keyboard why can't they do things
23:23:48 <myname> most of my f keys are used by my terminal multiplexer
23:24:23 <shachaf> Maybe "modal editor" means that it's the most common one.
23:24:29 <shachaf> In which case vi might be modal.
23:25:00 <\oren\> shachaf: the most common editor is probably whatever javascript devs use
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23:26:31 <\oren\> hmm, adding this feature won't be that hard
23:29:06 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Mon Jan 9 23:29:05 2017
23:36:11 <zzo38> I am using vim whether I am writing the program in C or in JavaScript or something else.
23:46:20 <boily> are there good refactoring plugins for vim? I really like Eclipse's Shift-Alt-{C,R,S,T,V} and Ctrl-1 shortcuts...
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23:50:44 <boily> hppavellunbracketed1.
23:52:44 <fizzie> What's this about my local time?
23:59:42 <olsner> boily: that eclipse-in-vim thingy? probably sucks, but I've heard about such a thing
00:00:30 <olsner> Java might be IDE-dependent enough to actually warrant just using eclipse though
00:00:48 <olsner> you can map <Esc>:w to save in eclipse
00:00:57 <boily> hellolsner. tried it a while ago, and it's not a good idea... just better to keep everything separate.
00:01:12 <hppavilion1> How many total orders over the reals are there?
00:01:40 <hppavilion1> How many total orders over the naturals are there
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00:05:27 <hppavilion1> [!? autocorrects to ‽ for me, though I usually just use altgr+' where I have it bound]
00:06:42 <hppavilion1> Marcela_Gandara: So, I take it you aren't looking for Canaima help?
00:16:00 <hppavilion1> Marcela_Gandara: You are looking for help with Canaima or you aren't looking for help with Canaima
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00:32:22 <zzo38> This is the esoteric programming IRC.
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00:35:13 <HackEgo> fish//Come and dance and love the fish! Mister Disco summoned it.
00:36:44 <oerjan> helloily. good advice as always.
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00:42:04 <hppavilion1> Marcela_Gandara: OK, just checking. We occasionally get people from Venezuela looking for help with the Venezuelan Government's official Linux distribution- Canaima- for no apparent reason
00:49:31 <oerjan> oh Marcela Gandara is a singer
00:51:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdome: not found
00:51:21 <HackEgo> The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere".
00:53:45 <boily> hellørjan. the Wisdom is Good.
01:00:34 <HackEgo> in//In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
01:01:28 <boily> . o O ( the ocean is more like grayish green. grayn. )
01:01:48 * boily mapoles the HackEgo
01:01:50 <HackEgo> esoterra//Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
01:01:56 <shachaf> "In 1492 Jesus sailed the ocean blue."
01:02:35 <boily> `slwd esoterra//s/\b/eso/Eso/
01:02:36 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 10: unknown option to `s'
01:02:44 <boily> `slwd esoterra//s/\beso/Eso/
01:02:47 <HackEgo> esoterra//Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as Esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
01:03:10 <shachaf> http://poetrynook.com/poem/religion-back-home
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01:11:37 <HackEgo> 7445:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. \ 7444:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn In your dreams, sucker!
01:14:06 <HackEgo> vector space//A vector space is just a module over a field.
01:14:31 <boily> that makes me think: in my opinion there isn't enough poetry in the Wisdom.
01:14:34 <HackEgo> 6170:2015-11-02 <oerjän> le/rn vector space/A vector space is just a module over a field.
01:15:56 <boily> googling for latex mahjong gives http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/new-style-latex-mahjong-massage-pillows.html . something was lost in translation somewhere...
01:17:03 <HackEgo> Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé egy szavad
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01:18:16 <boily> fizzie: [GENERIC HOLLERING]!
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01:18:31 <HackEgo> waji: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:19:55 <shachaf> copumpkin: what build system should i use
01:20:56 <copumpkin> I hear people like cmake but I generally don't
01:21:10 <boily> chellopumpkin. I hate cmake.
01:21:31 <shachaf> I looked at it a bit and didn't find anything appealing but maybe I'd like it if I looked more.
01:21:41 <copumpkin> I hear haskellers going on about shake
01:22:02 <shachaf> I want something high-level and declarative, like bazel.
01:22:15 <shachaf> Should I use bazel or a bazel clone?
01:22:46 <shachaf> No public Haskell support right now.
01:24:06 <boily> the road to cmake is paved with good intentions...
01:24:20 <shachaf> shake didn't seem sufficiently declarative when I looked at it.
01:24:36 <boily> I think bazel is your best bet right now.
01:35:53 <alercah> not for Haskell, unless you want to take on the work of writing the build rules for it
01:38:58 <shachaf> I tried but writing bazel rules is a lot of work.
01:39:15 <shachaf> Buck has rules for Haskell, though they don't seem to be compatible with GHC 8.
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02:02:08 <oerjan> <hppavilion1> How many total orders over the naturals are there <- |R| hth
02:02:24 <oerjan> by a simple squeezing argument
02:03:44 <oerjan> each order is represented by a subset of N x N, so <= 2^|N|.
02:04:19 <oerjan> and for each subset of N you can encode it as an order of N.
02:05:19 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion1 if you've pinged out, see logs
02:06:51 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] if you've changed nicks again, see message to hppavilion1
02:09:04 <shachaf> and it would have lined up so well, too
02:10:29 * oerjan ponders whether to give in to shachaf's evil temptation
02:11:26 <\oren\> wait so you're telling me nano had a line numbers feature all along but it's disabled by a compile-time flag?!?!?!?!
02:11:36 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
02:11:49 <shachaf> a heffalump or woozle / is very confusil
02:11:57 <shachaf> a heffalump or woozle's very sly
02:12:51 <boily> he\\oren\. Vim is Healthy and Good for You.
02:13:02 * oerjan whistles it just to shut up shachaf
02:13:50 <oerjan> it's ok you deserve it after today's vim trolling
02:14:55 <oerjan> . o O ( In einem alternativen Universum, shachaf trollt nicht )
02:16:22 <oerjan> you were making a "no true vim" argument, essentially.
02:16:51 <shachaf> after the part that wasn't trolling hth
02:16:59 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:19:47 <\oren\> I get a massive improvement just by compiling nano for myself and enabling all the features
02:20:28 <oerjan> \oren\: but doesn't that turn it into micro
02:20:31 <HackEgo> vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
02:21:36 <boily> were n ever used in roman numerals?
02:21:55 <oerjan> but i may not have seen all the weird variations
02:22:22 <oerjan> i don't think you were normally allowed to have two smaller letters before a larger one, though.
02:23:11 <shachaf> and oerjan would know, he was there
02:23:17 <HackEgo> 6404:2015-12-17 <lifthrasiïr> learn vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
02:23:27 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
02:23:54 <oerjan> this is of course the time when he's sleeping.
02:24:02 <oerjan> or possibly just waking up
02:24:23 <shachaf> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/15.12.17 hth
02:25:29 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: probably related to roman numerals.
02:26:00 <lifthrasiir> ...except that the number does not seem to look like 996
02:26:32 <oerjan> you said something about fractions
02:26:38 <shachaf> but 237 is an east-west freeway
02:27:20 <lambdabot> Local time for lifthrasiir is Tue Jan 10 02:27:19 2017
02:27:29 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: probably meant to say that I want to represent 237.5 or 237 2/3
02:27:33 <oerjan> that doesn't look overly korean
02:27:53 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: because I went to UTC server for my proxy
02:28:07 <\oren\> for some reason ubuntu is stuck on nano 2.2.6
02:28:27 <\oren\> the most recent version is 2.7.3
02:29:08 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: i still don't get what that has to do with vim
02:29:17 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: I don't get that either, feel free to rewrite
02:29:49 <boily> lifthrannyeonghasimnikkasiir.
02:31:24 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
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02:32:57 <oerjan> we only added that formally very recently
02:33:50 <oerjan> but have been fixing up entries forever
02:34:16 <oerjan> (or for 13.8 billion years, whichever is shorter)
02:34:46 <lifthrasiir> `learn vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
02:34:49 <HackEgo> Relearned 'vim': vim equals to cmxciv or cmxcvi, depending on which part of Roman Empire you are.
02:35:05 <fizzie> We had an internet breakage, that's all.
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02:35:51 <shachaf> fizzie: now why are you awake
02:36:10 <fizzie> Because our Internet was broken.
02:36:13 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Tue Jan 10 02:36:09 2017
02:36:28 <oerjan> shachaf: it's because he's in the same timezone as lifthrasiir hth
02:36:37 <fizzie> How am I supposed to sleep without a working connection?
02:36:55 <fizzie> I stream all my dreams from Google Dreams. (Not a real product.)
02:38:11 <boily> lifthrasiir lives so far away in the future that he transcends the mere concept of timezones.
02:38:34 <lifthrasiir> boily: indeed, because I sleep at 4 AM local time anyway
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04:18:22 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 13m 2s ago: if you've pinged out, see logs
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04:18:42 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 11m 50s ago: if you've changed nicks again, see message to hppavilion1
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04:19:14 <oerjan> don't worry, i only did those
04:19:39 <hppavilion[1]> In other news, I rearranged my number row so that it reads 0123456789 rather than 1234567890
04:19:43 <oerjan> that means i couldn't be bothered to @tell it after i realized you'd been idle for an hour.
04:20:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, the only way I knew to lambdabot it was that I can see where you sent it, so...
04:21:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: OK, so n! = 2^n when n = |N|. I have a feeling this applies to all cardinals?
04:23:04 <oerjan> note that the permutations are only a subset of the total orderings
04:23:36 <oerjan> there's no obvious correspondence either way
04:24:04 <oerjan> although they may have the same cardinality, regardless
04:24:26 <oerjan> what i mean is, ! could mean more than one thing there
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04:25:17 <oerjan> bijections from a set to itself
04:26:23 <oerjan> but when the set is infinite, more than one permutation might give the same order, and not all orders might come from a permutation
04:27:30 <oerjan> it might work if you look only at orderings isomorphic to the minimal ordinal
04:28:14 <hppavilion[1]> Also an interesting question: Is it possible to assign at least one number-theoretic interpretation of relationship (or... whatever) for every value in P(N)?
04:29:12 <oerjan> i don't understand "number-theoretic interpretation of relationship"
04:31:47 <hppavilion[1]> Basically it boils down to whether it's possible to- for any set S where S \subs N- define a predicate pred(n) using some restricted set of rules (maybe related to Peano Arithmetic?) where the set {n : n \in N, pred(n)} = S
04:32:11 <hppavilion[1]> I have a feeling I'm moving into Gödel territory here
04:32:44 <oerjan> there are only a countable number of predicates you can write down
04:35:48 <oerjan> i think the number of permutations, and the number of total (even partial, actually) orderings on an infinite set both always have the same cardinality as the power set.
04:37:49 <oerjan> start with a minimal well ordering of the set. its ordinal will have the property 2*n = n, so you have as many pairs as elements.
04:38:59 <oerjan> if S is a subset, define the permutation to swap 2*x and 2*x+1 iff x is in S.
04:39:21 <oerjan> erm, assuming the set consists of the ordinals, for convenience.
04:40:28 <oerjan> that gives an injection from subsets to permutations. and a permutation gives a unique order (the well-ordered-ness ensures that)
04:41:04 <oerjan> and an order gives a unique subset of M x M, which is the same size as M (assuming AoC)
04:41:40 <oerjan> so we have a full circle of injections, and they're all the same size.
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04:50:13 <HackEgo> Forty means "in a fort-like manner".
04:52:53 <oerjan> . o O ( on the banks of Wet Lake, with a scenic view of Stony Mountain )
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05:13:27 <HackEgo> 9532:2016-10-30 <oerjän> slwd forty//s/f/F/;s/$/./ \ 5023:2014-10-06 <mroman̈_> learn forty means "in a fort-like manner"
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06:01:36 <\oren\> nano 2.7.3 is way way better than the old version of nano I had!
06:01:40 -!- augur has joined.
06:02:39 <\oren\> it has many new shortcuts and features
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07:41:18 <doesthiswork> have you heard of http://www-igm.univ-mlv.fr/%7Elecroq/string/fdm.html#SECTION00220 ?
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10:40:09 <b_jonas> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
10:40:17 <b_jonas> Wizards is shooting themselves in the foot!
10:40:53 <b_jonas> they're printing a web address to some rare cards in Aether Revolt (the Standard-legal set soon to be released).
10:41:47 <b_jonas> that web address will be broken in two years, tops, knowing them, but the cards will be alive for way more (unless they do something even worse with M:tG)
10:41:59 <b_jonas> How can they be SO stupid?
10:42:13 <b_jonas> I mean, the Deckmaster logo on the back of the card was an honest mistake
10:42:22 <b_jonas> but this one is just stupidity
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11:35:53 <HackEgo> codensity//Codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed.
11:36:05 <Jafet> presumably a result of their market research
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15:02:39 <fizzie> b_jonas: They should just make the cards out of e-ink with updatable firmware.
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15:29:18 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, those would be too expensive. I want my commons from the nickel box.
15:49:21 <rdococ> I have designed the tastiest language ever
15:51:01 <Jafet> eta? but I don't even know her!
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16:40:14 <oerjan> <rdococ> lambda <-- i refuse to believe that name isn't taken. well, without the underline.
16:40:45 <oerjan> in fact, on our wiki even.
16:41:31 <rdococ> it is taken, but only by a stub article linking to a now-nonexistent website on the wayback machine
16:41:54 <rdococ> But "Lambda" is a boring name anyway.
16:44:12 <oerjan> just take the pun a step further and make cowda or pigda
16:44:59 <oerjan> right, it should be calfda or pigletda
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16:46:11 <oerjan> your puns are imprecide tdnh
16:46:26 <rdococ> your spelling is imprecise
16:46:41 <oerjan> true. although you could consider that a pun too
16:47:37 <rdococ> "cide" is a suffix that refers to death
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16:47:44 <rdococ> so if you want to kill impres, be my guest
16:48:11 <b_jonas> rdococ: is that like bobslaying, when you kill bobs?
16:48:22 <rdococ> -slaying is not a suffix
16:48:31 <rdococ> you don't say you're going dragonslaying
16:48:38 <rdococ> you say dragon slaying
16:49:07 <b_jonas> and then is your sword called dragonslayer or dragon slayer?
16:49:49 <rdococ> call it whatever you want. names don't have to be bound by the complicated laws of [insert language here]
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16:50:56 <rdococ> you could call it rekt, henotiseniakome, cececelececi, lungicide, or whatever.
16:52:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coin: not found
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17:01:01 <HackEgo> miricoin dobelacoin dzzcoin wakecoin wadcoin kracoin diccoin clariorcoin backlecoin lietzschemycoin pauchblcoin sublcoin grussercoin rhodifycoin pringcoin membateualcoin hydrakhaniecoin hatncoin rilvcoin surfcoin
17:01:21 <rdococ> where is the lambdacoin
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17:12:42 <moony> oerjan, you want the other one.
17:12:49 -!- otherbot has joined.
17:14:00 <moony> *has now offically made a joke about how otherbot is booting.*
17:14:10 <moony> (a terrible joke, but still.)
17:14:10 <oerjan> -help butidontknowanycommands
17:14:14 <otherbot> moony: Command groups (use list <group>): general alias capitalism chanop fact fun main sandbox tpt track
17:14:17 <otherbot> moony: echo ping pong eval flushq help list
17:14:37 <oerjan> moony: your -help needs a reference to -list hth
17:15:52 <otherbot> oerjan: poke fgen fact asen wolf rainbow rainbowact ddos up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-b-a - flip attack addattack
17:15:54 <moony> -restart change to the -help command requires rebooting the core.
17:15:54 -!- otherbot has quit (Client Quit).
17:16:11 -!- otherbot has joined.
17:16:16 <otherbot> That command does not exist! If you dont know any commands, try running "-list"!
17:17:43 <oerjan> -echo <CTCP>ACTION testing<CTCP>
17:19:07 <oerjan> -wolf How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
17:19:09 <otherbot> Input: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?; Result: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? | A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. | (According to the tongue twister, although the paper "The Ability of Woodchucks to Chuck Cellulose Fibers" by P.A. Paskevich and T.B. Shea in Annals of Improbable R (message truncated)
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17:22:33 <otherbot> moony: Command groups (use list <group>): general alias capitalism chanop fact fun main sandbox tpt track
17:23:35 <moony> tpt wasnt made by me
17:23:44 <otherbot> MOOOooOOOooooOooOoOoOooOOOOoOOooOoOooooOOoOoOooOOOoOOoOooOooO
17:24:00 <moony> i blame wlp1s1 for making it
17:25:36 <moony> -echo `echo beep. testing.
17:25:43 <moony> it shouldnt work btw
17:25:53 <moony> who removed the hidden char.
17:26:54 <wlp1s1> .eval bot.cmds.echo.toString()
17:26:59 * moony strangles wlp1s1 anyways.
17:27:10 <wlp1s1> -eval bot.cmds.echo.toString()
17:27:16 <wlp1s1> -eval bot.cmds.echo.code.toString()
17:27:16 <otherbot> 'function (args,chan) {bot.sendMsg(chan,args.join(\' \'));}'
17:27:24 <wlp1s1> moony: did you overwrite it :P
17:27:54 <moony> nope, thats the ircbot.js version
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17:28:23 <moony> *adds a null to the beginning.*
17:28:38 <moony> -restart echopatch 2000
17:28:38 -!- otherbot has quit (Quit: Restart requested by moony: echopatch 2000).
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17:30:41 <moony> -restart echopatch 300
17:30:41 -!- otherbot has quit (Client Quit).
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17:31:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: echo: not found
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17:32:26 <moony> -restart echopatch 9001. because broken things.
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17:38:48 <oerjan> -echo <CTCP>ACTION probably no longer works<CTCP>
17:38:49 <otherbot> <CTCP>ACTION probably no longer works<CTCP>
17:39:20 <oerjan> -echo lambdabot: @ping
17:40:21 <moony> -echo lambdabot might react to me. :D
17:40:22 <otherbot> lambdabot might react to me. :D
17:41:11 <oerjan> it doesn't do that sort of thing
17:41:17 <oerjan> -echo what about fungot?
17:41:17 <fungot> oerjan: you don't evaluate an expression n times
17:41:40 <oerjan> fungot: SOMETIMES i do
17:41:41 <fungot> oerjan: removing functionality would be superb. when a problem domain like memory management is in c or java
17:42:19 <oerjan> fungot: how destructive
17:42:19 <fungot> oerjan: what's for lunch in germany we have 1-, 2-, fnord,
17:42:33 <oerjan> fungot: lunch in germany is the wurst
17:42:33 <fungot> oerjan: well i'm swedish is basically english
17:43:08 <oerjan> fungot: det tror jag inte något på
17:43:50 <olsner> fungot: så sant som det är sagt
17:43:50 <fungot> olsner: i got two file handles from a data structure that doesn't use a consistent naming.
17:45:03 <fungot> rdococ: did you ever do such a thing
17:46:14 <moony> i have a challange for you all if you want to try it.
17:48:44 <rdococ> good idea. I'd be terrible at it.
17:48:50 <rdococ> but too late, you piqued my curiosity.
17:49:48 <moony> join #valoran-botwar to see my result :P
17:50:16 <moony> <anotherbot> -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)
17:50:17 <moony> <otherbot> .echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)
17:50:17 <moony> <otherbot> undefined
17:50:17 <moony> <anotherbot> -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)
17:51:20 <moony> the init code is 'bot.xyz = ".echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)"; bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz)'
17:52:52 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
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18:14:42 <fizzie> oerjan: sånt är livet.
18:16:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
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18:20:11 * rdococ occasionally tries to Ctrl+B when creating an article
18:27:03 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
18:27:13 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
18:27:37 <Taneb> Can someone change that to past tense? The exam was this morning and I think it went all right
18:28:11 <Taneb> I can't remember the cool way of doing it
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18:49:30 <\oren\> almost done adding my super cool feature to nano
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19:25:31 <izabera> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/106316/zero-sum-covers
19:25:40 <izabera> ignoring the golf challenge
19:25:48 <izabera> what's the best algorithm for that problem?
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19:30:09 <moony> may as well show off my almighty otherbot <-> anotherbot (the lightweight otherbot) loop.
19:30:11 <moony> -eval bot.xyz = ".echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz.concat(\"// hi\"))"; bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz);"" //wlp1s1 loves this
19:30:11 <otherbot> .echo -eval bot.sendMsg(chan,bot.xyz.concat("// hi"))
19:30:17 <moony> anotherbot is not here so it wont do a thing
19:30:31 <moony> rdococ added to it
19:30:36 <moony> leme grab the original
19:31:06 <wlp1s1> do it in #esoteric-blah
19:31:57 <moony> wlp1s1, i was showing the code, not the actually loop.
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19:38:44 <shachaf> fizzie: <shachaf> Looking at the bazel code, it has a FileStatusWithDigest interface, and a comment says "We use digests only if a fast digest lookup is available from the filesystem", but I don't see any non-null implementations that provide it. Is this something that public filesystem interfaces provide?
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19:40:25 <shachaf> fizzie: But I think it's probably provided by CitC (as described in http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2016/7/204032-why-google-stores-billions-of-lines-of-code-in-a-single-repository/fulltext ).
19:41:48 <pikhq> Oh, more than likely.
19:41:59 <pikhq> That sounds like the sort of thing that CitC would provide.
19:42:29 <shachaf> But it's a shame because I want that from my filesystem in general.
19:42:44 <shachaf> In fact I was asking about it a few weeks ago before seeing this thing in bazel.
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19:50:49 <int-e> izabera: it's not hard to do it in O(n log n) time, by keeping track of the various cumulative sums, noting that a sublist of zero sum is indicated by a duplicate cumulative sum. For example, http://lpaste.net/1865315317538881536
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19:53:13 <int-e> izabera: it'll be O(n) if either the cumulative sums have a known bound or you believe in hashtables.
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20:25:02 <izabera> int-e: sorry can you explain what that code does?
20:27:48 <int-e> it checks whether a list can be covered by sublists that sum to 0. :-P
20:30:04 <int-e> I don't want to explain the Haskell code. That's why I provided the basic idea of tracking cumulative sums just before the link.
20:31:14 <izabera> haskell is about as readable as befunge
20:31:55 <FireFly> I would agree actually, both languages are decently readable
20:32:48 <int-e> izabera: I'm sure the resident Haskell programmers will agree that the code I wrote isn't pretty.
20:34:19 <shachaf> What language would you prefer?
20:35:09 <izabera> i can probably read anything c like
20:35:51 <shachaf> I think that code is directly portable to that sort of languge.
20:36:02 <shachaf> Everyone uses that nowadays.
20:36:42 <moony> shachaf, i'll be taking my C and JS. thanks.
20:41:05 <shachaf> izabera: http://slbkbs.org/iz.txt
20:41:31 <shachaf> Direct port without bothering to figure out the algorithm or anything.
20:42:07 <moony> izabera, i can do the same. BYOND's custom language is fairly readable to me, i just dislike its variable declarations.
20:42:29 <shachaf> I would say that they're about equally readable.
20:42:53 <moony> BYOND's language is a C/python hybrid.
20:43:07 <shachaf> Of course in Python you would write for x in xs or something.
20:43:31 <moony> learning to program in it to make patches and changes for urist mcstation (the Bay12Forums SS13 station and baystation variant)
20:44:34 <moony> because UMS is a older copy of the baystation software, and has enough changes to make it unpleasant to port to new versions of baystation
20:44:52 <moony> its fully custom map makes other challanges, like the fact it has custom tiles.
20:46:39 <int-e> hmm, what's the right python container to use for this, http://sprunge.us/CQYT?py
20:47:40 <moony> pypy-c-sandbox should work
20:47:45 <moony> otherbot actually could run that.
20:48:06 <int-e> I mean container type, not sandbox.
20:48:42 <int-e> I suspect frozenset is a hashtable and therefore the union is expensive.
20:48:51 <shachaf> Oh, my code was obviously broken.
20:49:05 <shachaf> This is evidence that imperative code is hard and Python is confusing.
20:49:23 <int-e> but my Haskell code is imperative as well ;)
20:49:34 <moony> shachaf, i like C, it has something called 'closing brackets'
20:49:39 <moony> i know where things start and end :P
20:49:52 <shachaf> It might be clearer as a fold or something.
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20:52:03 <int-e> I could of couse use a hash table that stores the index of the first occurrence of each cumulative sum... that way the need for a persistent data structure can be avoided.
20:52:56 <shachaf> What do you think of LevelDB?
20:54:22 <shachaf> Hm, "LevelDB is widely noted for being unreliable and databases it manages are prone to corruption.[13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20]"
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20:59:54 <int-e> shachaf: and by a fold you mean something like this, right? ;-) http://lpaste.net/3488332460255608832
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21:02:04 <HackEgo> relrod_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:02:41 <izabera> then the parameter is a bit superfluous
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21:12:41 <int-e> I guess http://sprunge.us/FeSP?py is the proper imperative way to do this
21:17:04 <int-e> except that the < should be <=. so, too tricky. :)
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23:00:54 <HackEgo> west midlands//Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far.
23:01:41 <boily> hellorcah. you aren't wisdomed!
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23:17:05 <boily> so many unwisdomy people...
23:19:17 <HackEgo> Akaibu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:19:31 <shachaf> relrod: any opinions on databases?
23:21:22 <Akaibu> Heh, I've been here for months lol
23:21:40 <Akaibu> My bouncer just fucked up recently
23:26:16 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
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23:29:46 <shachaf> Well, people who have been here for months are welcome to be here.
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23:37:48 <relrod> shachaf: not really, except that all the libraries for working with them in Haskell tend to suck.
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23:38:43 <relrod> so if you're looking for a project, fix that :P
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23:41:55 <HackEgo> A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force.
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23:47:02 <Akaibu> really like the idea of the retina language, really need to code something in that for fun
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23:54:02 <HackEgo> cookie//Hackego wants a cookie! *hangs*
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23:54:27 <shachaf> relrod: what do you think of leveldb and that sort of approach
23:54:35 <shachaf> immutable but not persistent
23:59:23 <relrod> shachaf: I don't really know anything about it :(
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00:06:35 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb has to take an exam in it before he can invent it.
00:07:28 <oerjan> `slwd algebraic geometry//s,has,had,;s,can,could,
00:07:34 <HackEgo> algebraic geometry//Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb had to take an exam in it before he could invent it.
00:11:20 <oerjan> nah i think that stays.
00:11:24 -!- augur has joined.
00:11:45 <oerjan> it's not exactly getting simpler
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00:20:32 <boily> fungot: are you geometric?
00:20:39 -!- izabera has joined.
00:20:40 <fungot> boily: http://www.phubuh.org/phubuh/ fnord
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00:22:35 <HackEgo> Vorpal writes software for boring machines. Really big ones.
00:27:12 <oerjan> you should exchange tips
00:28:24 <boily> I believe Vorpal is boringer than me hth
00:28:52 <oerjan> well he was boring before you came to the channel
00:30:22 <boily> according to the fizziegraphs, I bored before.
00:32:11 <fizzie> fungot: There's a triangle in you, that's pretty geometric.
00:32:11 <fungot> fizzie: made a bf for networking stuff'. for that particular case. maybe because i see no action."
00:32:32 <boily> oerjan: very surprising, but that's what the bitmap says.
00:32:54 <boily> I briefly existed in 2007, and Vorpal appeared the year after.
00:33:18 <oerjan> must have been a tachy quantum fluctuation.
00:33:51 <oerjan> wait, does that chart include Anmaster
00:34:00 <oerjan> because that's a synonym
00:34:20 <oerjan> fizzie may or may not have combined them
00:34:34 <boily> it doesn't explicitely have Anmaster.
00:34:42 <boily> fungot: do you recall Anmaster?
00:34:42 <fungot> boily: sarahbot brown. means we can finally sleep. :p i wonder if he's coming from.
00:34:59 <HackEgo> 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 60) <AnMaster> I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it \ 80) <AnMaster> fungot!*@* added to ignore list. <fungot> AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 95) <fungot> AnMaster: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all ve
00:36:04 <oerjan> and it didn't go too well
00:38:30 <oerjan> hm must be combined AnMaster was around in 2009.
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00:48:58 <fizzie> I likely have combined them.
00:49:12 <fizzie> I haven't updated them charts in quite a while, and the list of "interesting" nicks is very out of date.
00:49:49 <fizzie> 'Vorpal': ['Vorpal', 'AnMaster', 'AnMaster_ipv6', 'VorpalPhone'],
00:50:07 <shachaf> fizzie: You should detect portmanteau hellos as nick interaction.
00:50:16 <fizzie> (That's an equivalence group.)
00:50:29 <oerjan> fizzie: you're permitted to scream now.
00:51:54 <fizzie> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
00:54:49 <boily> porthellos shouldn't be too hard to; they're quite standardized nowadays.
00:59:51 <lambdabot> PAMR 110053Z 00000KT 10SM CLR M14/M16 A3015 RMK AO2 SLP212 T11441161 $
01:00:42 <boily> hppavellon1. always.
01:01:00 <lambdabot> CYUL 110020Z 15019G29KT 3SM -SG DRSN FEW015 OVC039 M01/M06 A3001 RMK SF2SC6 PRESFR SLP165
01:12:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: c2f: not found
01:13:05 <oerjan> i'm sure there's a command for it, if not seven.
01:13:49 <oerjan> hppavilion1: you have a sign error hth
01:16:27 <oerjan> not the easiest point to remember
01:17:45 <HackEgo> cat: /bin/ctof: No such file or directory
01:17:46 <oerjan> hm i recall something about complex temperatures, or temperatures being complex something, ... hm i think it was black holes and entropy related.
01:17:49 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $c=0+$ARGV[0]; printf"%.2f°C = %.2f°F",$c,$c*9/5+32;
01:20:20 <oerjan> -40, 32, and 50 are easy.
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01:24:16 <boily> oven temperatures and pools are in fahrenheit, but weather is in celsius.
01:30:54 <oerjan> i don't consider 212 as easy as the rest
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01:37:41 <boily> fungot: are you warmblooded?
01:37:42 <fungot> boily: i thought some of the syntax of ml seems extremely hackish
01:38:29 <\oren\> better a syntax than a sin tax
01:41:35 * boily mapoles \oren\. 0.19 FP.
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01:48:38 <HackEgo> gene ray//Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy th
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02:45:53 <zgrep> `url wisdom/gene ray
02:45:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/gene%20ray
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03:56:17 <zgrep> Somebody should probably fix that, unless I misspelled it.
03:57:34 <HackEgo> f=$(find wisdom -ipath "wisdom/*$1*" -type f -print0 | shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom -z -n1); if [ -n "$f" ]; then echo -n "${f#wisdom/}//"; cat "$f"; else echo "That's not wise."; fi | rnooodl
04:01:59 <oerjan> `learn Blu-ray is the favorite storage format of Hooloovoos.
04:02:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'blu-ray': Blu-ray is the favorite storage format of Hooloovoos.
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05:58:45 <oerjan> heh a slight retcon of the previous girl genius comic
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09:53:14 <b_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20170110.html
09:53:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bobadventureslist: not found
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11:39:41 <lambdabot> CYUL 111100Z 22036G47KT 15SM -RA BKN033 OVC050 05/00 A2968 RMK SC7SC1 -RA INTMT PRESRR SLP055
11:40:09 <boily> +5 in January. woohoo.
11:42:24 <lambdabot> ESSB 111120Z 17021G32KT 9999 BKN016 02/M02 Q0991 R12/19//80
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11:46:35 <FireFly> "17021G32KT" is 170°, 32 knots, but what is the '21' there again?
11:48:00 <boily> 21 kt is the wind, and 32 kt are gusts.
11:57:13 <lambdabot> EGGD 111150Z AUTO 29027KT 9999 NCD 08/03 Q1011
11:57:25 <lambdabot> EGGD 111150Z AUTO 29027KT 9999 NCD 08/03 Q1011
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11:57:41 <boily> ha ha! lazy solution best solution.
11:57:51 <boily> hppavellunbracketed1.
12:22:15 <fizzie> It looks up ICAO codes.
12:22:35 <HackEgo> Helsinki Vantaa (HEL, EFHK)
12:22:40 <HackEgo> Bristol (BRS, EGGD) \ Bristol Filton (FZO, EGTG)
12:23:01 <fizzie> Looks up *by* ICAO code, I mean.
12:23:12 <fizzie> Admittedly it's a little ambiguous.
12:24:08 <fizzie> The last one is most generic, because it looks in all three columns.
12:24:18 <HackEgo> Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Wewak Intl (WWK, AYWK) \ We
12:25:15 <HackEgo> Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Wewak Intl (WWK, AYWK) \ We
12:25:27 <HackEgo> Værøy Heliport (VRY, ENVR) \ Røst Airport (RET, ENRS) \ Røssvoll Airport (MQN, ENRA) \ Namsos Høknesøra Airport (OSY, ENNM)
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12:53:55 <fizzie> Actually, why don't we.
12:54:04 <fizzie> `` (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'icao="$(airport "$*" | sed -e "s/.*, //;s/)//" | head -n 1)"'; echo 'echo lambdabot: @metar "${icao:-$1}"') > bin/metar
12:55:29 <lambdabot> EGGD 111250Z AUTO 28025KT 9999 NCD 08/02 Q1012
12:57:06 <fizzie> Sadly, looking up 'helsinki' gives Helsinki-Malmi Airport instead of Helsinki-Vantaa.
13:02:26 <FireFly> <fizzie> It looks up ICAO codes ← oh. I had it the wrong way around
13:02:51 <FireFly> I should've just used `airport, yeah
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17:39:01 <moony> i've decided to make my own Javascript math library :P
17:39:04 <moony> im using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunting-yard_algorithm
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18:04:43 <\oren\> hipchat is pale, inferior imitation of IRc
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18:27:37 <izabera> 19:04 <caze> Richard_Cavell: Should've gotten sicp
18:27:40 <izabera> 19:14 <pragma-> I couldn't fucking finish sicp.
18:27:42 <izabera> 19:14 <pragma-> Holy shit, could you be any more boring and dry for a computer book?
18:27:44 <izabera> 19:15 <pragma-> It sits on my bookshelf as a hypocritical badge of honor.
18:27:46 <izabera> 19:15 <pragma-> Mocking me.
18:27:48 <izabera> 19:15 <pragma-> Fuck you, sicp.
18:28:13 <izabera> 19:15 <karthyk> what's sicp
18:28:16 <izabera> 19:15 <pragma-> ,google sicp
18:28:18 <izabera> 19:15 <@candide> pragma-: (84,500 results) Welcome to the SICP Web Site: <https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/> -- Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_Interpretation_of_Computer_Programs> -- Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs: <https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html>
18:28:20 <izabera> 19:16 <karthyk> looks like an interesting book
18:28:24 <izabera> 19:16 <phox> SICP is very not-C
18:28:26 <izabera> 19:16 <phox> Der Wizardbooken
18:28:28 <izabera> 19:16 * phox owns and has not read for some reason
18:28:30 <izabera> 19:16 <pragma-> I even bought the teacher's companion to sicp.
18:28:32 <izabera> 19:16 <pragma-> Didn't fucking help.
18:40:31 <int-e> izabera: what did you paste that here for and why didn't you use a pastebin?
18:41:35 <int-e> all I got out of it is that Scheme, apparently, is unlike C.
18:55:36 <\oren\> I once read a progrmaming textbook where all the examples are in Fortran 66 and PL/I
18:55:48 <fizzie> A friend of mine once bought something like 10 copies of SICP.
18:55:56 <\oren\> It was actually very relevant to C programming
18:56:09 <\oren\> PL/I is very similar to C
18:56:10 <fizzie> There was a 5eur/piece sale when my former university stopped using Scheme on the 'introduction to programming' course.
18:58:18 <int-e> I'm afraid to ask what they switched to...
18:58:19 <\oren\> I wonder what language the intro course uses at my almametar
18:58:35 <\oren\> I took the "advanced introduction" which used scheme
18:58:37 <int-e> ...afraid that the answer starts with J.
19:05:57 <fizzie> int-e: It's not a single answer.
19:06:03 <fizzie> int-e: They did at least Python, Java and Scala.
19:06:15 <fizzie> Possibly something else as well.
19:06:37 <fizzie> There's different "introduction to programming" courses for CS and non-CS students, and they kept changing the languages of both.
19:06:44 <izabera> oh no they switched from lisp to python?! what real world usage could that possibly have?
19:08:21 <fizzie> I think they're doing Scala still, at least there's a page at the university for a Scala MOOC which says it's following the intro-to-programming course of CS students.
19:08:23 <HackEgo> implication:Implication is a useful rhetorical device, if you know what I mean. \ Binary file reflection matches
19:08:34 <fizzie> All in Finnish, otherwise I'd link to it.
19:08:45 <fizzie> Actually, I think I'll link to it anyway: http://mooc.aalto.fi/ohjelmointi/index2016.html
19:09:18 <int-e> `le/rn rhetorical question/Why did Taneb invent the rhetorical question?
19:09:19 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
19:10:05 <int-e> `` echo "Why did Taneb invent the rhetorical question?" > wisdom/rhetorical\ question
19:10:14 <int-e> let's do it the error-prone old-fashioned way then
19:10:24 <fizzie> Or, you know, you could've used two slashes.
19:12:18 <int-e> yes I think it's unreasonable.
19:12:29 <int-e> and there wasn't even a proper deprecation period with a warning
19:13:11 <izabera> it was just a very short one and you didn't notice
19:15:30 <int-e> . o O ( `le/rn accident/The recent le//rn change is an accident waiting to happen. )
19:15:53 <HackEgo> The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
19:16:10 <int-e> that seems hard to remember
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19:25:59 <\oren\> ok that took some work to find
19:26:09 <\oren\> apparently they used Python last year
19:30:52 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:31:47 <\oren\> oh and they no longer offer the advanced introduction to computer science. instead you just skip the introduction
19:33:31 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
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19:34:57 <\oren\> also, apparently they are trying even harder to make sure you can't get through your degree without writing an essay
19:35:26 <\oren\> I managed to do that but they've made the requirements more stringent
19:38:50 <\oren\> oh, here's something hilarious. they previously offered a course for comp sci students on how to write for non-experts. they now offer a course for non-experts on how to talk to comp sci people
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19:39:49 <int-e> sounds ... good? meet in the middle!
19:43:52 <\oren\> int-e: I mean they removed the technical writing course
19:56:34 <\oren\> apparently economics no longer counts as a social science
19:56:36 <\oren\> which is bullshit because economics certainly isn't a real science
20:01:30 <\oren\> linguistics still counts as a humanities... somhow
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20:05:18 <int-e> economics is too self-important to be a social science I guess
20:18:30 <FireFly> what's wrong with Python 3?
20:28:14 <fizzie> I thought that meant version "three point ugh".
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20:41:08 <\oren\> python 3 isthe one where none 9f your old code works anymore
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21:25:34 <int-e> \oren\: 2533 14356 363!
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21:42:06 <FireFly> It's a bit funny that Python did that one thing where you break backward compatibility to make things more sane for future generations, and then they got a lot of flak for it
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21:53:31 <alercah> FireFly: well some people still haven't migrated
21:54:32 <FireFly> I also had to take a class that forced me to use C89
21:54:39 <FireFly> Doesn't mean it makes sense to in modern code
21:54:54 <FireFly> or to teach it (even though dumb courses do apparently)
21:56:54 <olsner> has VS added C > 89 support yet?
21:58:41 <FireFly> I guess that would've been a reasonable argument, but we used gcc on linux boxes for that course
21:59:13 <alercah> FireFly: a lot of people really do still develop in python 2
21:59:13 <FireFly> Luckily not gcc from like 2000, too
21:59:22 <olsner> chromium probably still uses clang to convert C99 to C89 before compiling with VS
21:59:37 <alercah> and it's different from C89 because C89 is forwards-compatible
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22:01:00 <olsner> we used gcc 2.7.2 for the operating systems course at university (though to be fair, back then that was only 10 years old)
22:01:04 <FireFly> vim still uses K&R C last I checked, in order for it to compile on Amiga and such
22:08:45 <FreeFull> I use kakoune, which uses modern C++
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22:17:40 <moonythedwarf> anyone know a sed script i could use to remove all square brackets and change all = to :? (the = to : i have handled, because simple.)
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22:40:07 <FireFly> (which is poor to assume since it isn't crossplatform I guess, but my brain doesn't like BRE)
22:40:43 <moonythedwarf> so i looked up a diffrent solution and got it working (aka i converted the description of a lua table into something JS likes)
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22:42:11 <olsner> sounds like a job for tr, maybe tr -d '[]' | tr = :
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22:47:47 <Phantom_Hoover> bahahahahaha https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5mvnf2/is_openssl_compromised/
22:48:06 <Phantom_Hoover> tl;dr redditor finds a shocking report that openSSL is compromised
22:48:50 <Phantom_Hoover> because... dundundun if you know the password to generate a key you can use openSSL's algorithm to recreate that key!
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23:01:13 <HackEgo> phenomenom//A phenomenom is a name given to a phenomenon. The collection of them is called "phenomenomenclature".
23:02:19 -!- iovoid has joined.
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23:05:15 <boily> hellochaphenomenom.
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23:55:17 <HackEgo> arin//ARIN is the American Registry for Internet Numbers. Or a pastebin service; one of the two.
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00:12:42 * oerjan swats FireFly for tab-completing before fizzie -----###
00:13:11 <shachaf> How come I have to make bad puns to get swatted, but all FireFly has to do is exist?
00:13:32 <boily> oh. fungot disappeared.
00:13:36 <oerjan> shachaf: seagulls aren't quite as swattable as flies. maybe i just need a bigger swatter.
00:13:36 <boily> FIZZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!
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00:16:03 <boily> wasn't there a den to hide in?
00:16:21 <boily> ybden: ybdellon. can I hide in your den?
00:16:44 <ybden> belloily. Indeed you may.
00:16:51 * ybden relcomes boily into her den
00:17:10 <ybden> That is a very big swat O.O
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00:18:11 <Phantom_Hoover> you forgot to type the start and end of your nick ybden
00:18:44 <oerjan> there's an element of truth to that.
00:19:23 * boily mapoles oerjan. 0.98 FP.
00:19:48 <ybden> Phantom_Hoover: I did?
00:20:12 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: occasionally she forgets the middle instead
00:20:24 <shachaf> a practice that was started here hth
00:20:59 <pecan> I feel like that is latin for evil or some such.
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00:21:29 <pecan> w-what if latin ‹a› is realized as /o/?
00:21:45 <oerjan> which also means apple for some reason.
00:22:18 <oerjan> pecan: i don't think that's customary.
00:22:20 <pecan> I wonder if it originally meant apple and developed into a euphemism for evil in reference to the apple in the garden of eden.
00:22:26 <HackEgo> pecan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:22:35 <pecan> shachaf: I've been in here a long time, I just don't talk much.
00:22:38 <boily> darn. I was `relcomninjaed...
00:22:39 <oerjan> hungarian nearly does, though.
00:22:57 <shachaf> Have you been here long enough to notice that sometimes people who have been here a long time are relcomed?
00:23:08 <pecan> I also don't read much.
00:23:30 <wob_jonas> I've been relcomed once when I accidentally joined with the wrong nick
00:23:45 <boily> pecan: while you're existing and talking, what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
00:23:53 <LKoen> I've been relcolmed many times even though I more or less always had the same nick
00:24:16 <pecan> huh did the diaresis for marking double vowels originate here
00:24:45 <ybden> Phantom_Hoover: oh, right
00:24:59 <ybden> < oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: occasionally she forgets the middle instead ← indeed
00:25:18 <pecan> ~49.7°N, 105°W and some average number of ${preferred mass unit}
00:26:37 <boily> sadly not → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)#English
00:26:52 <boily> pecan: Seattle area?
00:27:08 <pecan> boily: I think that's denver, ish.
00:27:12 <boily> (these numbers are too common. we need more East Coast!)
00:27:28 <oerjan> pecan: no, both senses of "malum" are older than christianity hth
00:27:57 <wob_jonas> oerjan: the garden of eden story is older than christianity too
00:28:20 <pecan> hoh, that's actually saskatchewan, maybe it's more like 49.5°N
00:28:24 <oerjan> yes, but not very popular in rome before it, i should think
00:29:06 <boily> saskatchewaaaaan ♪ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-Zo3_VKQs
00:30:28 <oerjan> <pecan> huh did the diaresis for marking double vowels originate here <-- that's also older. medieval, i think.
00:30:47 <boily> oerjan: re ↑ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)#English
00:31:33 <pecan> I think I've only seen people known to be here use it in coö{rdinates,perate}
00:32:05 <oerjan> pecan: well boily has a bit of a fetish for it.
00:32:07 <wob_jonas> yep. I prefer the hyphen for such things.
00:32:27 <wob_jonas> and I definitely don't write anything in "coordinate" or "cooperate" in particular
00:32:44 <oerjan> of course, the the question is special.
00:33:08 <wob_jonas> but I do add a hyphen in "szemetes-zsák" and some other words, except in formal writing, since it's against the official rules
00:34:26 <boily> oerjan: I wouldn't call it technically a fetish... >_>'...
00:34:44 * oerjan looks up pecan's coordinates on google maps. looks swampy.
00:35:28 <pecan> I think I got them wrong. Whenever oyu are, go a bit south.
00:35:51 <oerjan> i imagine so, this is canada
00:35:57 <wob_jonas> it looks even more strange if I do it in shorter words like "méz-sör" or "ház-szám"
00:36:25 <wob_jonas> but those are words I rarely need to write
00:37:09 <\oren\> Hmm, Canada cannot afford to go unarmed in this age of memetic warfare
00:37:25 <wob_jonas> there's a lot more of these words, "gáz-szerelő" etc, but none of them are very common
00:37:53 <oerjan> 49.5 is still not out of canada
00:38:13 <wob_jonas> the really common ones are "igazság" and "egészség" and words derived from those, but those aren't composite words but suffixed ones, so I don't put hyphen in them
00:38:18 <pecan> just decrement until you're out of canada
00:38:27 <pecan> and then decrement until you're somewhere halfway down colorado
00:39:01 <boily> wob_jonas: I can't segment "s", "zs" and "sz". the graphemes are too confusing.
00:39:31 <boily> . o O ( is Canada signed? )
00:40:25 <wob_jonas> boily: if you segment them leftmost longest except in /z()s[áé]g/ where s is a separate letter, that gets almost all cases right
00:41:31 <pecan> boily: Seems so! http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/6bce3cd0-186d-4b26-81f3-d4aea806a678/e83309c2-687d-4bab-8a0e-5571eb0bbc03.jpg
00:41:52 <oerjan> pecan: 39.7. you just had the first digit wrong.
00:42:10 <oerjan> that's in the middle of denver.
00:42:55 <shachaf> pecan: Have you considered moving to Mountain View, CA?
00:43:14 <wob_jonas> There are a ton of rarer exceptions that people know about, like those suffixed words and composites I mentioned and way more composites, plus some proper names with traditional spellings like "Batthány", but none of them are really common.
00:43:15 <pecan> I'm simply not wealthy enough to afford a house at such a superior establishment.
00:43:25 <shachaf> Well, obviously. No one is.
00:44:09 <pecan> Also, I'm not really a fan of silicon valley.
00:45:05 <boily> what about the opposite? north east is quite fine!
00:45:10 <boily> wob_jonas: nightmarish.
00:46:20 <wob_jonas> To make the heuristic more complete, use leftmost longest to find letters "sz", "cs", "ny", "gy", "zs", "ty", "ly", "dz", "dzs" and also "ch" which occurs only in some loanwords and names, except in /z()s[áé]g/ (which is common) where s is its own letter,
00:48:39 <boily> I'll stick with French spelling tyvm. much more sane.
00:48:45 <wob_jonas> but segment "kh", "th" as two letters, because even though it is sometimes used as a digraph in some Greek loanwords or proper names resp, those exceptions are rarer than these appearing as two letters (usually in a suffix like h[ae]t or h[eoö]z, or in the word hátha)
00:50:06 <wob_jonas> boily: that's great. is there a simple way to tell in which French words is "ch" pronounced as /k/ rather than /S/?
00:51:09 <boily> words that came from Greek are hard /k/, everything else is soft /ʃ/.
00:51:22 <boily> hard: christ, chiropraticien, cholestérol.
00:51:33 <boily> soft: chose, chambre, chuchotement.
00:52:03 <boily> Écho is Greek mythology, so hard.
00:53:04 <wob_jonas> méchanique is hard too (but méchant, an unrelated word, is soft)
00:53:34 <boily> if you know the etymology everything is regular, but can trip learners.
00:54:18 <wob_jonas> how about chimie? isn't that from greek but has a soft c?
00:55:33 <boily> that one isn't exactly Greek. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimie#.C3.89tymologie
00:56:05 <wob_jonas> or machine, which is from latin but the latin word is from greek (which is why it has "ch" in latin)
00:56:28 <boily> machine was latinified.
00:57:21 <wob_jonas> so you have to know not only greek to know which words are greek, but also latin and arabic AND know whether french borrowed directly from greek or through some other language
00:58:09 <HackEgo> Sanity is the defining property of boily. Taneb invented it.
00:58:17 * boily grins like a sweaty used car salesman
00:58:24 * boily whistles innocently
00:58:32 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, cumin, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:58:57 <HackEgo> oxford//Oxford is the home of English, woven shirts, and the serial comma.
00:59:01 -!- otherbot_ has joined.
00:59:38 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep comma
00:59:55 <HackEgo> 9222:2016-10-10 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#and#the Oxford comma, and#
01:00:35 * oerjan leaves it a while longer based on intuition
01:00:56 <HackEgo> Sand is what microprocessors are made of. Taneb invented it.
01:01:39 <oerjan> `? tanebventions: math
01:01:40 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
01:01:47 <HackEgo> pointless topology? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:02:11 <oerjan> `` dowg 'tanebventions: math' | grep pointless
01:02:15 <wob_jonas> s/Batthány/Batthyány/ (that one's tricky, I can't spell it)
01:02:43 <oerjan> `` dowg 'tanebventions: math'
01:02:47 <HackEgo> 9768:2016-11-23 <shachäf> slwd tanebventions: math//s#the long#Curry\'s paradox, &# \ 9614:2016-11-03 <shachäf> revert \ 9613:2016-11-03 <Phantom_Hoovër> ` mv "wisdom/tanebventions: math" "tanebventions: maths" \ 9612:2016-11-03 <shachäf> revert \ 9611:2016-11-03 <Phantom_Hoovër> ` mv "wisdom/tanebventions: math" "wisdom/tanebventions: ma
01:02:59 <oerjan> `` dowg 'tanebventions: math' | grep topology
01:03:14 <oerjan> `dowg pointless topology
01:03:19 <HackEgo> 9211:2016-10-10 <shachäf> forget pointless topology \ 8465:2016-06-12 <shachäf> sedlast s./.. \ 8464:2016-06-12 <shachäf> le/rn pointless topology//Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
01:03:59 <oerjan> `slwd tanebventions: math//s;pointless topology, ;;
01:04:03 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
01:04:40 <oerjan> `dowt pointless topology
01:04:44 <HackEgo> 8464:2016-06-12 <shachäf> le/rn pointless topology//Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents. \ 8465:2016-06-12 <shachäf> sedlast s./.. \ 9211:2016-10-10 <shachäf> forget pointless topology
01:05:15 <oerjan> `` dowg 'tanebvention' | grep topology
01:05:41 <oerjan> `hurl tanebventions: math
01:05:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/tanebventions%3A%20math
01:10:51 <fizzie> We had another short interweb break. :/ Let's bring back the 'got.
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01:12:38 <fungot> boily: i'm trying to remove an existing?) php compilers is written in scheme
01:14:51 <oerjan> it appears, as far as i can tell, that pointless topology was added by me in the same edit i created tanebventions (math)
01:20:29 <oerjan> and i cannot find anything in the logs explaining why. i guess it was a spur of the moment thing.
01:21:04 <fungot> oerjan: gun control would be easier in python, so you
01:21:30 <oerjan> fungot: i think this may be the wrong time to suggest gun control.
01:21:30 <fungot> oerjan: no i mean, i haven't worked out all the indentation yourself or letting drscheme indent stuff?
01:23:19 <HackEgo> Værøy Heliport (VRY, ENVR) \ Svolvær Helle Airport (SVJ, ENSH)
01:27:49 <HackEgo> line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line+1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
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01:35:42 <oerjan> `slwd bin/spam//s;line+1;line<len?line+1:1;
01:35:48 <oerjan> `sled bin/spam//s;line+1;line<len?line+1:1;
01:35:50 <HackEgo> bin/spam//line="${1-$(cat /hackenv/tmp/spline)}"; len="$(wc -l /hackenv/tmp/spout | awk '{print $1}')"; echo -n "$line/$len:"; sed -n "${line}{p;q}" /hackenv/tmp/spout; echo "$((line<len?line+1:1))" > /hackenv/tmp/spline
01:36:05 <HackEgo> 1/2:1205) <adu> me thinks fungot is high on crack <fungot> adu: not exactly something like that. but even real scheme :p. \ 1238) <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? \ 253) <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same
01:36:47 <HackEgo> 2/2: name!!! \ 1121) <boily> everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. \ 688) <fizzie> fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. <fungot> fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used
01:36:50 <HackEgo> 1/2:1205) <adu> me thinks fungot is high on crack <fungot> adu: not exactly something like that. but even real scheme :p. \ 1238) <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? \ 253) <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same
01:37:37 <boily> fungot seems to have an unhealthy fascination toward scheme...
01:37:38 <fungot> boily: the problem with the irc server doing a fnord mock search committee.)
01:37:48 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
01:37:58 <oerjan> that's logically explained hth
01:38:21 <oerjan> the lack of douglas adams quotes, not so much.
01:43:41 <oerjan> `cwlprits rhetorical question
01:43:57 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger.
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01:46:40 <HackEgo> Why did Taneb invent the rhetorical question?
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01:47:16 <oerjan> hm that's not very rhetorical
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02:29:46 <oerjan> why are there two of them anyway...
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03:15:30 <int-e> `slwd rhetorical question//s/question/& without providing an answer/
03:15:34 <HackEgo> rhetorical question//Why did Taneb invent the rhetorical question without providing an answer?
03:16:06 <oerjan> int-e: i'm not sure that is a rhetorical question
03:16:38 <int-e> I know. I like dissonance.
03:16:54 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger.
03:17:20 <shachaf> `learn_append int-e He likes dissonance.
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03:18:23 <int-e> (well the mental kind, not the musical kind)
03:19:09 <oerjan> `slwd int-e//s;.$;, men han gillar dissonans.;
03:19:11 <HackEgo> int-e//int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans.
03:19:25 <oerjan> ...maybe that's for the best.
03:20:23 <int-e> oerjan: I think you missed a self-reference in there.
03:20:41 <oerjan> int-e: no i didn't, but only accidentally.
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03:21:57 <int-e> if it's about swedish grammar or spelling I won't see it.
03:24:52 <int-e> so "hen" is a swedish "xe"?
03:25:20 <shachaf> a hen in the bush is a stoned bird
03:26:31 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
03:27:23 <shachaf> I don't remember what questions I was asking, but it was probably pretty bad.
03:28:05 <int-e> Why didn't you stop then?
03:28:20 <oerjan> because he didn't know, silly
03:29:14 <fungot> \oren\: yes: fnord. how novel! :) how long does it take on a life of hermitage sounds great. what kind of and when? i must have changed quite a bit
03:29:16 <HackEgo> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
03:30:37 <int-e> fungot: how's life?
03:30:38 <fungot> int-e: i can't help you with that
03:31:49 <shachaf> fungot is not among the living
03:31:49 <fungot> shachaf: i am bothered by my desire to specify the codebase
03:32:34 <shachaf> Is dynamic linking ever a good idea?
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03:33:46 <int-e> it's a better idea than memory deduplication, I think
03:34:11 <int-e> (which I learned about from https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8022-memory_deduplication_the_curse_that_keeps_on_giving )
03:34:19 <shachaf> Well, there are multipe issues with dynamic linking, I suppose I should separate them out.
03:35:03 <shachaf> That looks like an interesteing talk but what if I can't watch videos?
03:35:32 <shachaf> Maybe dynamic linking in the case of content-addressed dependencies is not as bad, for example.
03:36:00 <int-e> the fahrplan has a link to the slides at least
03:37:15 <int-e> I guess the main problem is versioning (aka dll hell)
03:37:29 <shachaf> Versioning is always a problem.
03:37:45 <shachaf> If you have to do it, that is.
03:37:49 <shachaf> So you should avoid doing it if you can.
03:38:08 <int-e> the main benefit is reduced memory footprint; in theory, also program loading times could be improved, in practice it's unclear whether this happens in common workloads?
03:38:10 <shachaf> But if you can't, you should resolve dependencies at compile-time only.
03:39:16 <int-e> anyway I think I should try to sleep a bit more
03:44:18 <shachaf> int-e: I guess I'll just watch it when I get home.
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03:59:46 <enoua5> dang, I was gonna make a page "B#", joking that sice B# and C are the same note, they're also the same language. But it's already a real, non-joke language...
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04:03:28 <enoua5> curses, http://www.bsharplanguage.org/ !
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06:44:10 <alercah> where you define superpositions via a syntax that also happens to be version control conflicts
06:44:26 <alercah> so if you accidentally leave a conflict in, it compiles and just runs the superposition of both verions
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07:27:39 <\oren\> the d flat language would downgrade the D language to be less object oriented
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07:36:43 <alercah> \oren\: I think it would be funnier to make d flat be D, but .NET
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07:51:34 <Jafet> unfortunately, D flat would probably not be a major language
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08:23:03 <rdococ> Db wouldn't exist in some people's computo-lingual scales
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10:33:59 <hppavilion1> There's an operation I want to write occasionally, but I can't think of a good way
10:35:53 <hppavilion1> The operation takes three components- ‹b›ase, ‹c›ap, and ‹h›eight- and is equal to b^(b^(b^(...b^c...))), where (excluding the final ^c), the entire structure is h values tall.
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12:27:25 <HackEgo> icelandic unnerver//An Icelandic unnerver is a steampunkish looking hand cannon that spews freezingly hot lava out its recreational end. Uses epidermal DNA analyses, thaumic history excerpts and recognition of both multiphasic intristic tesla fields and personal sensorium-motor flair for authenticating authorized users.
12:28:09 <boily> . o O ( does intristic imply trigotillectomic? )
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17:00:26 <schoolboy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezhil_(programming_language)
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20:11:08 <izabera> https://github.com/rgleichman/glance
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21:16:03 <int-e> \oren\: I may have an explanation why economics isn't a social science... if you think about it for a bit you'll realize that it's an *asocial* science, dehumanizing and just plain evil.
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21:53:55 <zzo38> All of my Node.js package readmes are missing from the webpages, do you know why? The program "npm show" will display them just fine, and other packages readmes are displayed on the webpage too.
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22:15:40 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like dynamic linking?
22:22:44 <\oren\> There's a big argument hapening on the unicode mailing list about whther they need a superscript q
22:23:16 <\oren\> and about fractions using superscript and subscript number
22:24:16 <\oren\> I mean they already have all these superscripts ᴬᴭᴮᴯᴰᴱᴲᴳᴴᴵᴶᴷᴸᴹᴺᴻᴼᴽᴾᴿᵀᵁᵂᵃᵄᵅᵆᵇᵈᵉᵊᵋᶳᶴᶵᶶᶷᶸᶹᶺᶻᶼᶽᶾᶿ
22:24:20 <\oren\> ᵌᵍᵎᵏᵐᵑᵒᵓᵔᵕᵖᵗᵘᵙᵚᵛᵜᵝᵞᵟᵠᵡᶛᶜᶝᶞᶟᶠᶡᶢᶣᶤᶥᶦᶧᶨᶩᶪᶫᶬᶭᶮᶯᶰᶱᶲ
22:26:05 <\oren\> ᵃᵇᶜᵈᵉᶠᵍʰⁱʲᵏˡᵐⁿᵒᵖ ʳˢᵗᵘᵛʷˣʸᶻ
22:26:36 <\oren\> I should revise these graphemes
22:30:19 <int-e> shachaf: do you like memory deduplication?
22:30:40 <shachaf> int-e: For read-only memory?
22:31:20 <int-e> shachaf: cross-VM, content based.
22:31:36 <int-e> 04:44:17 <shachaf> int-e: I guess I'll just watch it when I get home.
22:31:44 <shachaf> Yes, I still haven't watched it.
22:32:01 <shachaf> I got home and talked about lens for a while and jammed for a while.
22:32:04 <int-e> just curious, never mind :)
22:33:09 <shachaf> I still intend to watch it!
22:33:26 <int-e> yeah but I don't want to seem pushy
22:33:32 <int-e> this may not be working :)
22:36:22 <shachaf> If you want to get anything done, you have to be pushy.
22:37:03 <shachaf> Anyway, I brought up that link in another channel.
22:37:09 <shachaf> <someone> shachaf: Not applicable; depends on having RW access. Here, you're deduping RO mappings.
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22:42:01 <int-e> This might let you sleep soundly at night if you consider Rowhammer to be an obscure hardware bug that doesn't appear in real systems. For example, because you're actually using ECC RAM.
22:44:03 <int-e> (apparently ECC RAM is good enough to make the difference between a feasible attack and an infeasible one there; I don't believe that it can offer absolute protection)
22:47:09 <Marcela_-> Hello, I'm from Venezuela, I speak a little English, but my language is dominate Spanish, but I want to learn how to handle my English in this channel, can you help me or not?
22:47:51 <Phantom_Hoover> my advice is not to speak to zzo38 under any circumstances
22:48:46 <HackEgo> Marcela_-: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
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22:53:40 <Marcela_-> I want you to teach me English, can you help me?
22:56:39 <FireFly> There is a ##English which might be of more help
22:57:28 <\oren\> Speaking english doesn't qualify us to teach it
22:58:24 <int-e> Hmm http://esolangs.org/wiki/English exists...
22:58:28 <Marcela_-> What things can this channel help me with?
22:59:18 <int-e> `welcome Marcela_-
22:59:19 <HackEgo> Marcela_-: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
22:59:20 <\oren\> programming, mathematics,
22:59:49 <fungot> int-e: lispme would handle firefox easily. in scheme, which makes you feel better about sllgen. seems quite slower
23:00:24 <int-e> and don't forget web comics
23:00:45 <int-e> and, of course, ultimate wisdom
23:00:57 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
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23:01:40 <int-e> \oren\: was that "permutation cipher" intentional?
23:02:09 <\oren\> it was due to lazy fingres
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23:03:07 <int-e> of course the above is all lies. what the channel is really all about is bad puns.
23:03:11 <\oren\> i'm not sure hwy it happens but when i type fast sometimse letters get out of order
23:04:17 <\oren\> maybe my brian has a packet protocol between it and my fingers
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23:05:56 <HackEgo> Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
23:07:28 <HackEgo> The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles.
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23:11:20 <lambdabot> CYUL 122300Z 23006KT 4SM -RA BR BKN004 OVC020 03/02 A2979 RMK SF6SC2 SLP092
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23:19:55 <boily> Marcela_-: you shouldn't be confused, everything makes sense. in case of doubt, consult the fungot.
23:19:55 <fungot> boily: like you can't describe the semantics of scheme, nothing about any following discussion
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23:34:29 <int-e> This place is populated by a bunch of smartasses who like stating the obvious.
23:36:02 <fungot> quintopia: and you can
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23:36:34 <lambdabot> KATL 122252Z 20007KT 10SM FEW040 FEW250 20/12 A3033 RMK AO2 SLP270 T02000117
23:37:50 <quintopia> int-e: preface all your questions with ppntat (please provide non-trivial answer thx) for best results. that is the magic word. hth
23:38:39 <boily> quinthellopia, int-ello.
23:40:05 <\oren\> plz prvd nn trvl ans thx
23:41:38 <int-e> quintopia: is the sky blue? ppntat!
23:42:57 <int-e> (I know what "prefixed" means but I think it sounds better as a postfix.)
23:43:24 <boily> `le/rn ppntat//Pen Pineapple Nutmeg Tamarind Apple Tangerine
23:43:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'ppntat': Pen Pineapple Nutmeg Tamarind Apple Tangerine
23:46:12 <int-e> for some reason I find this odd :)
23:47:47 <int-e> Of course "Alexa, please order..." has a good chance of becoming the new Rickroll (for live call in broadcasts).
23:47:49 <quintopia> int-e: where do you live? the sky is dark gray here
23:48:40 <boily> . o O ( and the sky is dark graaaay ♪ )
23:49:25 <int-e> quintopia: here it seems vary
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23:56:07 <quintopia> boily: also check out the gdq borderlands 2 coöp run on youtube for great entertainment
23:58:59 <boily> «Jamais je ne t'abandonnerai, jamais je ne décevrai, jamais je ne dirai de mauvaises choses ni te ferai mal... ♪»
00:01:27 <quintopia> hmm. it loses something in the translation
00:07:00 <boily> «On part ensemble, mais c'est toujours un adieu... Et peut-être reviendrons-nous, sur la Terre, mais qui peut le dire? ♪»
00:07:21 * boily doo doo doo doooo do do do do dooo ♪♪♪
00:07:43 <int-e> wow, 2 months after this reinstall... bash: rlwrap: command not found
00:08:06 <int-e> I really thought I'd use this command more frequently than that.
00:08:56 <shachaf> Can you believe people still install packages imperatively like that?
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00:34:16 <int-e> shachaf: I rather suspect that this may be one of those rhetorical questions that I'm hearing so much about.
00:34:18 <HackEgo> 1/2:lystrosaurus//Lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which ruled the world around 250 million years ago. \ primative//A primative is a reference to a value that you were robbed of. \ england//England is [EXPUNGED]. \ coonspirator//A coonspirator is caterpillar silk wrapped in collabora
00:34:29 <HackEgo> 2/2:tors. \ comonad//Comonads are just monads in the dual category. They are hard to get into.
00:34:37 <shachaf> int-e: It's ridiculous, isn't it?
00:35:14 <shachaf> Your system state is the end result of a bunch of "apt" commands that you ran and already forgot.
00:35:26 <shachaf> Depending on the order that you ran them in and so on.
00:35:32 <shachaf> Also a bunch of files that you edited, and other things.
00:36:06 <shachaf> Instead what you want is a file that says what state you want things to be in.
00:36:17 <int-e> well, if I had wanted to I could've just grabbed the previous list of packages and installed everything
00:36:49 <int-e> but I like the idea of using a reinstall to prune packages I don't need. there's a tradeoff.
00:36:54 <shachaf> That's a weak approximation of what I'm saying, but, sure, probably better than nothing.
00:37:29 <shachaf> The list of packages you're using should be checked in to version control or something.
00:37:31 <int-e> and anyway I find nix too crazy.
00:37:43 <shachaf> Nix has downsides but this aspect of it is very reasonable.
00:38:09 <int-e> (which I believe gets the closest to what you describe)
00:38:36 <shachaf> Yes, I started using Nix a little bit lately, and I have a file like that.
00:38:58 <shachaf> It has a list of packages I want. When I want a package I add it to the list, and when I don't want a package I remove it from the list.
00:39:14 <shachaf> But it's complicated and there are things I don't like.
00:39:45 <boily> incidentally, I managed to compile nix on cygwin. it compiles, but then trying to run the nix-shell results in a DLL linkage error...
00:39:58 <shachaf> What would you do if you wanted to run service on a whole bunch of machines?
00:40:06 <shachaf> How would you manage that?
00:40:10 <int-e> a real point for me is that while I do have several computers that I'm using they all need different sets of packages anyway, though there's a common core.
00:40:15 <shachaf> I should say "a whole bunch of services", probably.
00:40:37 <int-e> I guess the modern answer is "use docker" ;-)
00:40:40 <shachaf> int-e: That sounds like all the more reason to keep track of it in an organized way.
00:40:44 <int-e> (or somesuch thing)
00:41:09 <int-e> it's not enough of a pain to automate
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00:41:25 <int-e> I mean, https://xkcd.com/1205/
00:41:42 <shachaf> It's not just a matter of saving time.
00:42:20 <shachaf> By the way, I started running prometheus and node_exporter on my laptop recently. It's great.
00:43:07 <int-e> shachaf: maybe this wasn't clear from the above, but I wasn't annoyed by the fact that rlwrap wasn't already installed. installing it was quick and painless and I learned something new (though perhaps not terribly interesting) about my use of *this* computer.
00:43:34 <shachaf> There are better ways, I think, to learn these sorts of facts.
00:43:59 <int-e> I'm sure there are
00:45:17 <shachaf> Are you able to view a graph of CPU usage etc. over the past few hours?
00:46:04 <int-e> why would I devote 0.01% of my CPU time to that? :P
00:46:11 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration#Notation has a few options; the most standard seems to be \exp^h_b(c) in LaTeX
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00:47:16 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
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00:48:24 <shachaf> The last sentence, I mean.
00:56:34 <oerjan> what about the second last?
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01:08:52 <shachaf> oerjan: every last sentence is correct hth
01:12:40 * oerjan is playing QWOP. curse you comic irregulars.
01:13:15 <hppavilion1> oerjan: Because it generalizes to higher hyperoperations
01:14:52 <shachaf> oerjan: That game is pretty easy, isn't it?
01:15:12 <oerjan> well i _have_ finished the track twice now.
01:15:18 <shachaf> You can win it with only q and w
01:15:24 <shachaf> Or only two keys, at any rate.
01:15:28 <shachaf> I don't remember which two.
01:15:36 <oerjan> that sounds like my strategy.
01:16:00 <oerjan> except i use o to correct posture sometimes, and p to get over that middle obstacle
01:16:47 <shachaf> I guess it doesn't allow you to jump far in the end.
01:16:56 <oerjan> indeed. 100.1 m both times.
01:17:12 <oerjan> it also doesn't allow you to avoid tripping the obstacle.
01:17:34 <shachaf> Hold Q for a while, then press W to stabilize.
01:17:44 <shachaf> I think that strategy can get you all the way to the end.
01:18:05 <shachaf> Maybe you need some trick with the obstacle, but I think you can stick with those two keys.
01:18:39 <oerjan> well my problem with using only q and w is that the back leg gets too bent eventually if i don't get the rhythm precisely right, which i don't yet.
01:18:51 <oerjan> and then i use o to straighten it.
01:19:13 <shachaf> Try a brief Q press and then W to stabilize.
01:19:27 <oerjan> shachaf: um i tell you i've been doing this.
01:19:37 <shachaf> You don't need rhythm for that, though?
01:20:12 <oerjan> well the rhythm is for getting a little more speed... this was my second success so i tried to do a little better.
01:20:35 <oerjan> i agree that it's probably _possible_ with just q and w.
01:23:02 <oerjan> i'm trying that, up to 17 m now
01:23:51 <oerjan> and the front leg gets awkwardly straight, too
01:24:33 <oerjan> so i'm constantly in danger of tipping backwards.
01:24:57 <shachaf> look, my goal was simplicity, not speed
01:25:14 <shachaf> if you keep taking risks by holding q for too long you'll fall eventually
01:25:28 <hppavilion1> http://anglish.wikia.com/wiki/Anglish_wordbook uses "they"
01:26:38 <pikhq> To be fair, "Anglish" is principly about removing Romantic influences.
01:26:48 <pikhq> "their" is a loan, but it's a Germanic loan.
01:26:56 <hppavilion1> pikhq: It's about removing foreign influences, mostly
01:27:06 <pikhq> It's also a *very* old one.
01:27:17 <pikhq> The loan was adopted during the Old English period.
01:29:15 <hppavilion1> pikhq: It's xnorly and I will fucking cut you if you say otherwise
01:29:31 <pikhq> Eh, what do I know, I am formally a very uneducated man.
01:29:56 <shachaf> i know nothing at all, formally
01:30:07 <pikhq> Oh, you don't even have a high school degree or equivalent?
01:31:19 <oerjan> ok now just my back lower leg is stuck in the obstacle
01:32:02 <shachaf> what system do you formalize those in twh
01:32:14 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure all of your countries of citizenship have such a thing.
01:32:43 <shachaf> the legal system is inconsistent hth
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01:45:36 <hppavilion1> Hm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_inventions_and_discoveries
01:46:01 <oerjan> fantastic. i got it all to the end then messed it up by trying to do something special. which seems to have triggered a bug https://imgur.com/a/IgOG5
01:46:03 <HackEgo> tanebscoveries? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:46:18 <hppavilion1> shachaf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nathan_van_Doorn disagrees
01:47:01 <shachaf> the english, the english, the english are best; / i wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest
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01:50:35 <oerjan> shachaf: anyway, definitely possible even if i missed 0.7 m
02:03:30 <oerjan> <schoolboy> if it fits do add to the listing <-- hm, not esoteric
02:13:06 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> and don't forget web comics <-- you forgot MtG hth
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02:19:22 <oerjan> hm "citimate" should have been the antonym
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02:41:26 <HackEgo> merchantable//Merchantable adj. Capable of being chanted by mermaids.
02:41:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: stupidity: not found
02:41:53 <hppavilion1> I would've guessed enchantable by mermaids
02:42:32 <boily> an enchantment has to be chanted first. elemermentary.
02:45:34 <HackEgo> Who cares about ancient cases anyway?
02:45:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: whose: not found
02:45:51 <boily> . o O ( we are the champions, but every hand clap it's 10% faster )
02:46:06 <HackEgo> lie bracket//Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them.
02:46:33 <hppavilion1> boily: The Original Trilogy, but every time someone eats a banana it's 5% faster
02:52:41 <boily> as far as I can tell, there aren't any bananas in them.
02:53:15 <boily> in fact, the only work of fiction that I know for a fact that has bananas is Gravity's Rainbow.
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02:54:06 <boily> (there's also that thing with the small yellow guys that I refuse to aknowledge, and nobody has any proof I went to the theatre to watch it.)
02:56:19 <alercah> `addquote <boily> (there's also that thing with the small yellow guys that I refuse to aknowledge, and nobody has any proof I went to the theatre to watch it.)
02:56:22 <HackEgo> 1306) <boily> (there's also that thing with the small yellow guys that I refuse to aknowledge, and nobody has any proof I went to the theatre to watch it.)
02:57:01 <izabera> i need a name for a collection of programs to manage processes
02:57:10 <izabera> but pmutils is taken https://pm-utils.freedesktop.org/wiki/
02:57:17 <izabera> and so is pmtools http://search.cpan.org/dist/pmtools/lib/pmtools.pm
02:57:32 <boily> hellorcah. bleh :P
02:58:04 <boily> hellochaf. I can't deny nor confirm nothing at all whatsoever la la la la la la can't hear you ♪
02:58:29 * boily throws a smoke bomb and flees away
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03:02:06 <hppavilion1> "plord" is fun to say. plordplordplordplord.
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03:07:47 <izabera> you're terrible at naming things
03:13:15 <oerjan> hppavilion1: it's deplordable
03:13:46 <hppavilion1> izabera: It's the process overlord. Obviously.
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04:50:15 <oerjan> who is that identservice guy...
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05:22:55 * Sgeo is trying Magic Duels
05:23:06 <Sgeo> Not sure why I seem so intent on avoiding Hearthstone
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07:03:51 <zzo38> I have a book about philosophy. They included Thomas Aquinas and about his five proofs of God (they are defective), as well as in other section the proof that there is no God (also defective), and also Theseus, sorites, etc. Do you know about these thing?
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12:11:58 <lambdabot> hppavilion1 asked 9h 4m 47s ago: Do your CHICKEN prefixes ever repeat, or are they drawn from some finite set and removed as they are used?
12:12:01 <HackEgo> ol//OL stands for Original Lyrics. A person who sings songs unmodified is called an OList.
12:13:34 <boily> @tell hppavilion1 hppavellon1. I try to always use a new prefix from memory, but sometimes I repeat. fizzie had compiled a list some time ago.
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12:14:02 <boily> @tell hppavilion[1] hppavellon[1]. please peruse the unbracketed message.
12:14:26 <HackEgo> smlist//Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
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12:59:27 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion1 http://sprunge.us/FIcQ
12:59:38 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion1 (Old data.)
13:00:44 <kritixi> What's with all the chickens?
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13:49:09 <Jafet> that looks like enough to start a chicken ^style
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15:23:12 <int-e> heh, the lack of pants is evolving into a running gag (GG)
15:23:46 <int-e> @tell oerjan Indeed I did.
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15:26:07 <dario_> is anyone here able to optimize bitbitjumpjump microcode for a VM? (the VM is used to decompress data by means of an ad-hoc generated program)
15:26:10 <dario_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/41636963/data-compression-algorithm-and-vm-micro-code-code-optimization-program-based-co
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16:48:05 <int-e> @tell oerjan have you encountered the game called "CLOP"?
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18:01:02 <\oren\> Ooh epic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36s2Q7JrLgs
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23:19:20 <HackEgo> for further details//who knows
23:20:06 <HackEgo> 1/3:queuestack//Queuestack is when you're confused about whether something should be a queue or a stack, and end up with a complete mess. See https://xkcd.com/954/ . \ links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to mo
23:20:16 <HackEgo> 2/3:dify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. \ danish//In Danish, the word for "island" is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons. \ tc//Tc is the abbreviation for Technetium, an element so sophisticated that it does not exist natur
23:20:20 <HackEgo> 3/3:ally. \ fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
23:20:28 <shachaf> now i wonder who put in that links entry
23:21:02 <HackEgo> 9527:2016-10-30 <oerjän> slwd links//s/are/is/;s/don/doesn/;s/letter to/letter in/ \ 6559:2016-01-14 <b_jonäs> ` mv -i wisdom/link{,s}
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23:54:10 <HackEgo> 1/2:splay//Splay is a painful pastime that is dual to cosplay and the supersymmetric partner of ordinary play. Recuperation, when even possible, may require wearing a stume. \ finity//Enjoy being locked in your matrix of finity. \ vaarsuviu//Vaarsuvius is female. The Word of God about that is right at http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq1
23:54:35 <HackEgo> 2/2:0 , right above where he tells the comic updates three times a week (twice a week according to the TOC). \ marriage//Marriage was made legal in the United States on 2015-06-26. \ typoerjan//typoerjan is oerjan's clumsy twin.
23:54:39 <HackEgo> 1/2:splay//Splay is a painful pastime that is dual to cosplay and the supersymmetric partner of ordinary play. Recuperation, when even possible, may require wearing a stume. \ finity//Enjoy being locked in your matrix of finity. \ vaarsuviu//Vaarsuvius is female. The Word of God about that is right at http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq1
23:55:14 <boily> in all the conventions I attended, I never cosplayed. 'tis shameful.
23:56:37 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:58:37 <boily> hellochaf. do you have pictures?
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00:14:36 <hppavilion1> In state news today: "Unnamed village in Bristol Bay region sees HIV outbreak"
00:14:43 <hppavilion1> I'm genuinely unsure whether they mean that which village in particular is not being disclosed now or that the village isn't named
00:14:49 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 1m 14s ago: hppavellon1. I try to always use a new prefix from memory, but sometimes I repeat. fizzie had compiled a list some time ago.
00:14:49 <lambdabot> fizzie said 11h 15m 21s ago: http://sprunge.us/FIcQ
00:14:49 <lambdabot> fizzie said 11h 15m 10s ago: (Old data.)
00:15:25 <boily> hppavellon1, fizziello, hellambdie!
00:18:20 <hppavilion1> (I genuinely could not think of a better porthello. I'm not even sure whether that counts)
00:18:38 * boily *THWACK* hppavilion1. -0.5 FP.
00:19:18 <boily> Funpun, the customary unit for a thwack; previously a shachaf, but he kept being pinged.
00:19:36 <hppavilion1> Though, I suppose in this case it's more of a Hantentagoffer
00:19:40 <HackEgo> “Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
00:19:50 <boily> I believe the usual boilrthello is ahoily.
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00:20:31 <boily> you can always combine a "bon matin", "bonjour" and/or "bonsoir". they mesh well in a cromulent fashion.
00:20:47 <hppavilion1> hellœrjan. I recently moved my ø key to altgr+u and altgr+o is now œ
00:20:49 <shachaf> `slwd boily//s#, and#, a thwack doctor&#
00:20:53 <HackEgo> boily//“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
00:21:34 * boily chirurgically thwack shachaf. 1.00 FP :D
00:22:09 <hppavilion1> Thwhoctor if the Thwoctor is also a Whovian
00:24:53 <HackEgo> jander//Jander was murdered, or deactivated permanently, depending on which side you ask.
00:25:28 <boily> hppavilion1: you should try the Canadien Multilingue Standard layout. very good!
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00:36:06 <HackEgo> ruffles: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:37:52 <ruffles> idk what esoteric laguages are tbh joined outa curiosity :v
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00:39:03 <boily> the wiki is there for discovering them! there's also us in this channel.
00:39:42 <boily> you can even peruse the PDF in the topic for some... uh... clarifications about things that tend to happen here.
00:39:56 <ruffles> can u gimme a one sentence abt-page
00:40:33 <hppavilion1> ruffles: Salvador Dali: Programmer Edition
00:42:19 <boily> that's strangely accurate.
00:43:30 <boily> ruffles: if you want, there are a few well known classics to read about: brainfuck, befunge, intercal, underload, malbolge, aubergine...
00:47:33 <ruffles> like what esoteric nature seeks to be aroused by esoteric programs?
00:47:43 <lambdabot> int-e said 9h 23m 56s ago: Indeed I did.
00:47:43 <lambdabot> int-e said 7h 59m 38s ago: have you encountered the game called "CLOP"?
00:49:15 <boily> ruffles: esoteric programming is exploring the limits of computation and program form. it's a kind of poetry with constrained writing.
00:49:46 <ruffles> like sacred geometry code?
00:50:14 <boily> it can be anything you want. except a brainfuck derivative. shun the brainfuck derivative.
00:51:29 <shachaf> oerjan: i played enough of this game to see that it's designed to thwart people like me
00:51:58 <boily> ruffles: some of them go the minimalist way, just to see how little we need to actually compute something. others directly include elements of painting, cooking, music or zombie summoning for an unusual cachet.
00:52:29 <oerjan> yay i got back on all feet again
00:52:42 <ruffles> omg lets convince machines that sacrificing humans will save their souls
00:52:53 <boily> oerjan: all feet? how many do you have?
00:54:05 <boily> what's a clop? is it like qwop with a horse?
00:54:30 <boily> ruffles: that is generally frowned upon.
00:54:53 <oerjan> fungot: your soul is already saved, don't listen to him!
00:54:54 <fungot> oerjan: riastradh has the power to make sure
00:54:54 <boily> oerjan: oh hm. I can't clop. it appears that I may have uninstalled flash...
00:55:38 <boily> still no. I like the body that's me.
00:55:42 <ruffles> i wonder if the internet has natural selection
00:59:44 <HackEgo> tas//TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running.
00:59:59 <oerjan> argh the horse turned lame. this wasn't fun.
01:00:41 <oerjan> ruffles: all selection on the internet is artifical hth
01:01:15 <ruffles> ikno thats why i didnt ask that
01:01:40 <ruffles> when i see program vs program then il kno
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01:02:12 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm not necessarily a person like you. i assume you too tried with just h and k?
01:02:34 <shachaf> just two of them at any rate
01:02:42 <oerjan> ruffles: oh. then you want to look at bfjoust
01:02:49 <zemhill_> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
01:03:36 <oerjan> !zjoust >>>>>>>>>([-]>[+]>)*-1
01:03:36 <zemhill_> oerjan: "!zjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation.
01:03:46 <oerjan> !zjoust lame_horse >>>>>>>>>([-]>[+]>)*-1
01:03:46 <zemhill_> oerjan.lame_horse: points -7.81, score 13.39, rank 34/47
01:03:58 <oerjan> hm that's far too high
01:04:22 <oerjan> i suppose the scoring may still not have rebalanced
01:05:32 <oerjan> ruffles: see also codewar
01:05:52 <boily> !zjoust rehydrated_shiitake >[[-.]>]
01:05:52 <zemhill_> boily.rehydrated_shiitake: points -32.62, score 4.85, rank 47/47
01:06:17 <oerjan> shachaf: well h and k got me to the first stone obstacle.
01:07:27 <lambdabot> EGLL 140050Z AUTO 30005KT 9999 NCD 01/M02 Q1018 NOSIG
01:07:36 <fizzie> I forgot to do that when it was snowing earlier today.
01:07:38 <oerjan> ruffles: it's a game where people make programs to fight each other
01:07:47 <lambdabot> ENVA 140050Z VRB02KT 9999 -SN FEW004 SCT015 BKN038 00/M00 Q0992 RMK WIND 670FT 33005KT
01:08:11 <oerjan> i guess it's more interesting in london
01:08:54 <lambdabot> CYUL 140100Z 31008KT 15SM SKC M12/M21 A3077 RMK SLP425
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01:11:14 <boily> ruffles: what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
01:11:28 <oerjan> . o O ( REPETIVE CHICKEN )
01:14:45 <oerjan> today's Drive comic is hilarious but you have to know the characters
01:15:16 <boily> ruffles: it's the The Question. everybody gets asked it.
01:16:20 <ruffles> im inclined to ask the nature of the request tho
01:17:04 <oerjan> ruffles: well it started way back when someone asked about the center of mass of the channel...
01:17:32 <oerjan> that's a physics concept.
01:17:53 <oerjan> but anyway, to calculate it we need people's coordinates and body weigh.
01:18:03 <oerjan> boily: HOW'S CALCULATION GOING
01:18:30 * oerjan waiting for boily's patented sweat drop smiley
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01:20:26 <ruffles> im tryna practice to see if i can read ppls mind through their thoughts
01:20:39 <ruffles> iherently its like an energetic keylogger
01:20:54 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
01:21:12 <ruffles> thanks saw that earlier :v
01:21:47 <ruffles> still, was curious abt the programmable aspects of it
01:21:56 <ruffles> maybe algorythms for divination
01:23:10 <oerjan> `8ball Are algorithms for divination a good idea?
01:23:51 <ruffles> should i get off the chan then?
01:23:56 <ruffles> idk wat i can contribute tbh
01:24:03 <ruffles> but it was on autojoin soo
01:24:08 <shachaf> `8ball will my life be improved if i follow 8ball's advice?
01:24:13 <ruffles> i love freenode its so diverse
01:24:38 <boily> fungot: are you more accurate than a puny 8 ball?
01:24:38 <fungot> boily: and some say that i screwed up on that
01:24:55 <oerjan> fungot: yes, but what do you think?
01:24:55 <fungot> oerjan: do what you think. ( mit scheme)
01:25:04 <fizzie> ^8ball did we have this command?
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01:25:18 <fungot> fizzie: the reason that the pascal syntax was chosen, i think. i could paint it, but it'd be nice
01:25:25 <oerjan> . o O ( did fizzie test that first? )
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01:25:34 <fizzie> oerjan: No, I like to live dangerously.
01:25:45 <fizzie> (Well, that's not true. But this time I didn't.)
01:28:57 <oerjan> ruffles: well mysticism and that sort of thing are rarely discussed here, but many kind of mathematical/logical nerd topics are.
01:29:27 <oerjan> (most people who state any kind of belief here are atheists or close to it.)
01:33:03 <zzo38> I consider myself panendeist, but yes probably most are atheist
01:38:57 <zzo38> But how many not atheist people is on anyways?
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02:00:19 <dingbat> Hey y'all. The wikipedia page for binary lambda calculus has been deleted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus
02:00:46 <dingbat> Perhaps someone with a better understanding of wikipedia than I could fix that?
02:01:02 <dingbat> The reasons do not seem sufficient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Binary_lambda_calculus
02:01:18 <dingbat> And many articles, both on Wikipedia and other sites, refer to that article
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02:11:32 <oerjan> dingbat: 'fraid that's how wikipedia policy is. it's not notable in the sense wikipedia uses.
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02:12:37 <oerjan> only finding actual references providing the notability criterion can reverse that decision, and since no one did...
02:12:56 <dingbat> Seems like it is notable from a common sense perspective though. I mean, wiki pages for _many_ esoteric languages reference it. Oh well, not the first silly thing about Wikipedia
02:13:27 <dingbat> Doesn't seem like they looked for any reason to keep it.. sorta stupid IMO
02:14:36 <oerjan> i'd have liked to see what was in the talk page that was referred in the deletion discussion - it was deleted with the article itself.
02:15:01 <oerjan> dingbat: many esolangs themselves have been deleted over the years.
02:15:46 <dingbat> Yeah unfortunately the talk page wasn't archived by wayback machine
02:16:19 <oerjan> basically, to be safe at wikipedia they have to be given a significant mention from somewhere _outside_ the esolang community.
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02:38:43 <oerjan> <hppavilion1> (I genuinely could not think of a better porthello. <-- i think you misspelled "worse". do you occasionally consider not speaking before thinking?
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07:06:44 <zzo38> Do you think this is good? https://www.npmjs.com/package/sdlterm-mck
07:15:10 * izabera thought it was a terminal emulator written in sdl
07:16:40 <zzo38> It is not but it is a music program.
07:17:37 <zzo38> (It is somewhat like a terminal emulator which is the reason for that name, although it isn't one.)
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13:43:36 <HackEgo> Coffee is a strange hot brown liquid, often consumed, sometimes with milk and sugar. It contains chemicals considered stimulants.
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13:48:54 <boily> `learn Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the sould ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
13:49:06 <HackEgo> Relearned 'coffee': Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the sould ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
13:49:36 * boily is gulping down a bodumfull of a Kenya-Sumatra blend ^^
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13:58:11 <boily> `learn Tea is concentrated fuel made by distillating occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
13:58:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'tea': Tea is concentrated fuel made by distillating occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
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14:02:28 <boily> `le/rn mate//Maté is a southern hemisphere shamanist beverage that opens your inner self to the Sacred World. Its enlightened users become friendly, wishing “G'day, maté!” to one another.
14:02:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'mate': Maté is a southern hemisphere shamanist beverage that opens your inner self to the Sacred World. Its enlightened users become friendly, wishing “G'day, maté!” to one another.
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14:34:43 <int-e> . o O ( The shakrad world )
14:37:32 <int-e> @tell oerjan the funny thing is that I'm rather immune to this game. I tried QWOP but all I managed is to get off my feet. So I watched a youtube video of a speed run (and that's not even a pun!) and gave up.
14:38:18 <int-e> @tell oerjan (CLOP came up as a related video)
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15:09:42 <int-e> . o O ( perhaps I should've written "I tried QWOP but I didn't get very far." )
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17:12:31 <rdococ> wħy wøułđ I wæŋŧ iŧ ŧø ße β? ß łøøĸs łiĸe b æŋywæy
17:24:45 <FireFly> pronouncing that is awkward with all the /ŋ/ and /ø/ and things
17:25:06 <Jafet> ßome people ßeem to think it iß
17:29:59 <int-e> . o O ( at least rdococ didn't use В )
17:36:38 <zzo38> UTCE has a codepoint that represents either one (beta or the German ss) (this is for compatibility with PC character set), but also has the two separate ones as well (for compatibility with DEC terminals).
17:40:22 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/utce
17:56:49 * rdococ didn't intend it to be IPA
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19:39:51 <Vorpal> So... AGDQ TAS block is next.
19:52:42 <Vorpal> shachaf: watching AGDQ? I assume ais is, whereever he is, he was way into TASes iirc
20:09:37 <fizzie> Didn't realize at all.
20:16:09 <Vorpal> fizzie: TAS segment right now
20:19:01 <fizzie> Yeah. I don't know if I'm finding this Gradius run all that interesting.
20:21:24 <Vorpal> fizzie: very extravagant though
20:22:18 <Vorpal> fizzie: interesting that it was on the NES classic though, and the stuff they said about NES classic TAS issues in the beginning
20:22:34 <Vorpal> that it goes through xbox input controller emulation
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20:32:31 <Vorpal> wow, streaming video to a SNES?
20:33:45 <Vorpal> rather low FPS, but still
20:35:28 <boily> at which point does a sequence of still frames become a video?
20:35:53 <Vorpal> still impressed they can do that to a SNES
20:37:54 <Vorpal> oh come on, this is now how I wanted to watch the portal TAS
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20:41:28 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's not like you could follow what's happening anyway.
20:41:35 <fizzie> (I've watched a few of them.)
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20:42:14 <Vorpal> fizzie: I would be interested in TASes of PC games though, though I guess portal could be on a console
20:42:27 <Vorpal> Wouldn't it desync a lot?
20:42:35 <Vorpal> Due to variable performance of PCs
20:43:47 <fizzie> http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Windows-Stars-Moons.html has a few.
20:43:54 <fizzie> I think mostly done with http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/Hourglass.html
20:44:42 <Vorpal> no mouse input? How does that work
20:44:59 <Vorpal> with most games I mean
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20:48:55 <fizzie> I see they're making the most out of this streaming video thing.
20:48:57 <Vorpal> Okay, this is cool and all, but they keep going on the same basic thing, streaming low quality video to a SNES
20:49:30 <Vorpal> I would rather see something new
20:52:04 <fizzie> Well, the explanation bit was nice.
20:52:15 <fizzie> Hadn't realized it was the other two games doing the sound.
20:57:18 <Vorpal> ooh twitch plays x for some x
20:57:34 <fizzie> Assuming they can get it working.
20:58:25 <Vorpal> well, the emotes cover everything
20:59:25 <Vorpal> and the twitch chat is insane in the games done quick channel as usual
20:59:31 <Vorpal> more than usual now though
20:59:36 <fizzie> I usually just close it.
20:59:56 <Vorpal> fizzie: but on tablet at least it is always open by default when you open a channel
21:00:06 <Vorpal> So I see a few seconds of it
21:00:11 <fizzie> I think that's true on a browser as well.
21:00:22 <Vorpal> Possibly, this laptop can't handle twitch. Too old
21:00:45 <Vorpal> I probably need to get a new one soon
21:02:43 <fizzie> As usual, the full AGDQ schedule is just SO LONG.
21:02:54 <Vorpal> fizzie: anyway, there are surprisingly a few channels with okay chat. Mostly smaller channels that focus on very niche games. Like grand strategy games
21:02:59 <fizzie> Maybe I'll wait until someone posts a "best things to watch" thing.
21:03:22 <Vorpal> I usually just watch what sounds interesting on their youtube channel after
21:03:31 <fizzie> My cat stream has moved to YouTube, and the chat's been less watchable. (Not that I usually watched it before the move either.)
21:03:45 <Vorpal> you have a cat stream?
21:03:54 <fizzie> "My" as in "the one I watch".
21:03:58 <Vorpal> and it has an active chat?
21:04:23 <Vorpal> fizzie: what is a cat stream? a web cam mounted on a cat?
21:04:33 <fizzie> A web cam pointed at cats.
21:04:36 <fizzie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feE5rkgnt6c
21:04:42 <Vorpal> the other would be cooler
21:04:56 <fizzie> It's a person who volunteers for a no-kill cat shelter.
21:05:21 <fizzie> So they usually have a set of kittens up until they're old enough to be adopted away.
21:06:07 <fizzie> Yes, though cats being cats, often they're just sleeping.
21:06:50 <fizzie> Kittens probably sleep less than adult cats, though.
21:06:58 <Vorpal> I can't even pretend to begin to understand why you or anyone else would watch that. But then I don't understand the internet's cat focus elsewhere either
21:07:38 <Vorpal> also that is a lot of stuff for giveaway at ADGQ now
21:07:41 <fizzie> It's an easy substitute for having a cat around.
21:08:42 <Vorpal> ooh and DS 3 next, that sounds interesting
21:08:54 <Vorpal> Wonder what platform they will speed run it on
21:10:24 <Vorpal> probably not PC, I assume you want a console, to get lower frame rate, making frame perfect tricks easier
21:10:40 <Vorpal> on the other hand, loading time would be better on PC
21:15:00 <Vorpal> probably going to sleep though, and watch the replay of that instead
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21:30:43 <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> Okay, this is cool and all, but they keep going on the same basic thing, streaming low quality video to a SNES
21:31:48 <Phantom_Hoover> like obviously people like us can quickly see that they've just turned the SNES into a video frontend but i think most of the viewers were completely awestruck by it
21:37:31 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover: still impressive that they can make the SNES do that
21:38:05 <Vorpal> though that they made two NES do the audio explains some of that
21:39:27 <Vorpal> I guess that and the NES classic might have taken enough time to develop they didn't have time to do anything else special
21:41:27 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover: what have they done to the video output of DS3 though... It says it is PC, so why on earth is the image quality so terrible, compared to the camera
21:41:43 <Vorpal> It's like upscaled standard definition
21:41:52 <Vorpal> and I'm watching on source quality on twitch
21:43:03 <Vorpal> I noticed quite a few production quality issues over the past week. Bad audio mixing mostly before though
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22:09:17 <HackEgo> article//An article is something that `learn can understand.
22:09:41 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯//¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
22:09:44 <HackEgo> deewiant//Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing.
22:09:53 <HackEgo> supermarionation//supermarionation is another name for the mushroom kingdom.
22:10:18 <boily> `slwd supermarionation//ss^\ssSs
22:10:21 <HackEgo> supermarionation//Supermarionation is another name for the mushroom kingdom.
22:10:26 <HackEgo> toe//The TOE is the Toe of Everything, from which our universe sprang.
22:11:08 <boily> . o O ( if the toe is everything, what are the other four? )
22:11:12 <HackEgo> maybe//Maybe a is Just a or Nothing
22:11:17 <HackEgo> monomorphism//A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
22:11:27 <HackEgo> codoctor//P⚭Q ∧ P ∈ 𝔻𝕣 → Q ∈ 𝔻𝕣*
22:12:33 <boily> . o O ( I still haven't typeset that one... )
22:12:37 <HackEgo> isomorphism//Isomorphism is isomorphic to Phantom_Hoover up to isomorphism.
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22:47:41 <hppavilion1> If you wanted to make a string U which contains all strings from length from 0 to s in an n-character simple alphabet as substrings, how long would U have to be?
22:48:50 <hppavilion1> The upper bound is \summ{i=1}{s}{n^i}, but I'm pretty sure it can get shorter
22:49:47 <hppavilion1> n^i is a sharper upper bound since the shorter substrings must occur in the longer ones
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22:58:23 <fizzie> I think I saw an answer to this, in the context of decimal digits and all strings of length 4.
22:59:05 <fizzie> As in, the shortest string of digits you have to type to open a combination lock that accepts a 4-digit number.
22:59:29 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_sequence
23:03:58 <shachaf> mixukmDe Bruijn sequences are too good
23:05:23 <shachaf> Persi Diaconis used this for a p. fancy magic thing.
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23:35:45 <HackEgo> tsh//tsh sounds horrendous
23:43:13 <HackEgo> burrito//Burritos are like Monads, according to Joe. See https://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuition-and-the-monad-tutorial-fallacy/
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23:44:00 <boily> monads are easy, once you build up upon functor and applicative.
23:44:54 <boily> burritos are delicious. there's that place near my job that serves custom burritos à la Subway. goes well with Ultra Death Sauce :D
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00:07:12 <fizzie> There's a place that serves "Real California Burritos" downstairs at street level at the office.
00:07:22 <fizzie> One of the http://www.tortilla.co.uk/ chain.
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00:08:07 <boily> apparently authentic mexican burritos only have a single filling, or two fillings. boring.
00:09:52 <boily> fizzie: huh. it's about the same price as http://burritorevolucion.ca/
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00:18:41 <boily> hellørjan. what's your stance on para-authentic cuisine?
00:23:47 <lambdabot> int-e said 9h 46m 14s ago: the funny thing is that I'm rather immune to this game. I tried QWOP but all I managed is to get off my feet. So I watched a youtube video of a speed run (and that's not
00:23:47 <lambdabot> int-e said 9h 45m 28s ago: (CLOP came up as a related video)
00:31:54 <oerjan> hm apparently if i try with just Q and O i end up going backwards
00:36:12 <HackEgo> Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the sould ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
00:36:23 <oerjan> boily: is that typo intentional
00:37:31 <oerjan> also, does it count if you use a sugar cube, but only to dip it in briefly?
00:38:36 * oerjan starts the countdown to the trapdoor under boily
00:41:03 <HackEgo> Tea is concentrated fuel made by distillating occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
00:41:24 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
00:41:53 <HackEgo> tea//Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
00:44:42 <HackEgo> mate//Mate is a southern hemisphere shamanist beverage that opens your inner self to the Sacred World. Its enlightened users become friendly, wishing “G'day, mate!” to one another.
00:46:44 <oerjan> @tell int-e i must have overdosed, now when i try to play QWOP my real legs start hurting.
00:46:48 <boily> rehellørjan. which typo?
00:47:00 * boily unarms the trapdoor
00:47:30 <boily> `slwd coffee//s/sould/soul/
00:47:33 <HackEgo> coffee//Coffee is a strange brew. Enticing wisps of vapour catch the eye, the soul ensnared into dark vortices of flavour. Some minds mix in milk and sugar to counteract coffee's black magic.
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00:50:37 <HackEgo> U+0412 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER VE \ UTF-8: d0 92 UTF-16BE: 0412 Decimal: В \ В (в) \ Lowercase: U+0432 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
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01:10:37 <HackEgo> title//Titles J. K. Rowling had specifically denied on her webpage would be the titles of the sixth or seventh Harry Potter book are: Harry Potter and the{ Green Flame Torch, Mountain of Fantasy, Fortress of Shadows, Forest of Shadows, Graveyard of Memories, Pyramids of Furmat, Pillar of Storgé, Toenail of Icklibõgg}.
01:11:08 <boily> . o O ( Estonian õ or Portuguese õ? )
01:11:32 <oerjan> i don't think either language looks that way
01:12:48 <boily> fungot: icklibõgg?
01:12:48 <fungot> boily: " turing tarpit" seems a problematic category. there are no fnord that substitutes every occurence of so-and-so to see where it went, they got some worried parents to back it
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01:16:13 <HackEgo> atwp//According to Wikipedia, ATWP means nothing.
01:16:21 <HackEgo> hyperbolic group//Hyperbolic groups are the best groups there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer.
01:16:39 <HackEgo> anana//ananas is the real pineapple.
01:17:09 <boily> but anchovies are better.
01:17:13 <HackEgo> god's number//God's number is the maximum number of moves a Rubik's cube can require to solve. It is equal to 20. No, really. Look it up.
01:27:31 <shachaf> that's what the wisdom entry is for
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01:52:07 <HackEgo> lens//A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra.
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03:10:26 <zzo38> I looked it up in Wikipedia, yes it says God's number is not less than twenty and is not more than twenty, therefore it is equal to twenty.
03:12:11 <shachaf> either that or it's a complex number hth
03:12:48 <pikhq> 20 can be expressed in the form a+bi where a and b are reals HTH.
03:13:17 <pikhq> b is in the reals.
03:13:23 <pikhq> 0 is in the reals.
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03:19:08 <doesthiswork> Do you know about the pussyhat project? People are knitting pink pussyhats for the Women’s March on washington dc.
03:21:24 <doesthiswork> I had a look at one of the hats and it doesn't look at all like I imagined, So yesterday I went to the store and got some fur, pink satin, and tan suede and made myself a more realistic pussyhat/
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03:34:13 <Wolfgang_> I was wondering how feasible would to be to set up 2 NN to search the internet for works on god then to discuss it
03:34:15 <oerjan> well our bot seems to have died.
03:34:29 <oerjan> Wolfgang_: i think you're in the wrong channel
03:34:41 <pikhq> It'd likely be as cogent as the average Internet ostensible-theologist.
03:34:56 <HackEgo> Wolfgang_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
03:35:01 <pikhq> oerjan: I dunno, having two neural networks talk to each other sounds a bit like an #esoteric thing to do.
03:35:42 <Wolfgang_> I think esolangs would be a good place to look becuase its proof of computer conscience in its earliest form
03:36:14 <oerjan> you probably mean consciousness
03:36:41 <oerjan> i'm still not convinced. except for fungot of course
03:36:41 <fungot> oerjan: it fucking rhymes. russian isn't that fnord the hash
03:37:11 <oerjan> fungot: don't swear to our newbies
03:37:11 <fungot> oerjan: the functionality of breaking the " law" and " wiki" means " why not?
03:37:12 <shachaf> when people say "neural network" do they mean "artificial neural network"
03:37:26 <shachaf> i wish they wouldn't call that thing any sort of neural network
03:37:34 <shachaf> there's nothing neural about it, and it's barely a network
03:38:34 <oerjan> they call it a neural network so it won't kill them for insulting it when it takes over the world hth
03:41:45 <Wolfgang_> How does it make you feel that the words we leave here will live longer than our bodies
03:45:56 <HackEgo> dinosaur//Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers.
03:46:10 <HackEgo> ladder jump//Ladder jump is the phenomenon that in practically all platformer games where the player character can climb up on ladders, it's faster to repeatedly jump and grab the ladder than to climb.
03:46:20 <HackEgo> phantom__________hoover//OK you got me there.
03:46:24 <HackEgo> the u//The U are a very mad people.
03:46:28 <HackEgo> english channel//If it existed, the English Channel would separate Hexham from Finland.
03:47:42 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone.
03:47:57 <oerjan> i guess it cannot exist, then.
03:48:08 <HackEgo> 9366:2016-10-20 <shachäf> revert \ 9365:2016-10-20 <shachäf> slwd #esoteric//s#hyperenchilada#IRC channel# \ 9318:2016-10-18 <hppavilion[1̈]> slwd #esoteric//s/May contain crude drawings of nuts. // \ 9317:2016-10-18 <hppavilion[1̈]> slwd #esoteric//s/$/ Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone./ \ 8896:2016-08-03 <oerjän> slwd #eso
04:02:19 <zzo38> What are you thinking about Aquinas's arguments to prove existence of God? I think these arguments are defective. The conclusion contradicts the premise.
04:05:09 <zzo38> Another page also mentions the argument against the existence of God, but that argument is also defective, and at least they admit that! (Even Aquinas found a flaw in it actually, even though his own arguments aren't any better. Why is that?)
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04:19:58 <doesthiswork> What do you think of William James's argument for the existence of God?
04:20:41 <zzo38> What is that argument?
04:21:11 <zzo38> I can't see it in Wikipedia
04:21:30 <zzo38> Nevermind I misspelled his name, now I spelled it correctly
04:21:45 <doesthiswork> His definition of truth is "if it's useful to believe then it is true."
04:22:39 <doesthiswork> and he said that once you believe in god you find it confirmed in a multitude of ways
04:23:04 <zzo38> That proves nothing. However it may be useful even if it is not valid.
04:24:32 <doesthiswork> can you give me an example of a belief that is useful but invalid?
04:25:37 <doesthiswork> (also it is beneficial to make a distinction between beliefs that are true and beliefs that benefit you in other ways)
04:26:14 <doesthiswork> And things that are not true until you believe them are just weird
04:26:15 <zzo38> I do not konw of any. Belief of God may be useful whether or not it is valid, but only if it is useful to you, I think. And that is different from being useful in general.
04:26:55 <zzo38> However, possibly there may be some cases where believing things that are not true may be useful for stuff having to do with lie detectors and so on if you can manage it.
04:27:02 <doesthiswork> I think you can see why he pissed of Bertram Russel
04:29:52 <doesthiswork> Yes, and since people are reasonably effective lie detectors and often want other people to believe certain things it can be very useful to believe something that isn't true.
04:30:46 <pikhq> doesthiswork: I disagree with his core premise.
04:31:06 <pikhq> Truth is independent of how I feel about it.
04:32:28 <doesthiswork> pikhq: could you restate his core premise for me?
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04:33:50 <pikhq> "A thing is true if and only if it is useful to believe it."
04:34:10 <pikhq> There are false beliefs that are useful (though truer beliefs are more useful).
04:35:06 <pikhq> It is useful to believe God will punish you for eating raw pork. It is more useful to believe that eating raw pork will, with some probability, give you trichinosis.
04:35:29 <zzo38> Ah, yes I can see the point.
04:36:08 <doesthiswork> William James's argument for the believing in god frustrated me because he acknowledged that it is only effective if you already mostly believe in god. I thought that a good argument was one that could convince you from any starting point.
04:36:09 <pikhq> Furthermore, if the notion of "useful" is "it makes you feel better", or "you begin to see 'confirmation' of it"...
04:36:33 <pikhq> Yes, a good argument should be based in premises that non-believers will hold.
04:36:53 <pikhq> ... Because frankly if it isn't, then you're preaching to the choir.
04:37:01 <doesthiswork> in fact he did use "it makes you feel better", which managed to piss off Christians too.
04:37:26 <pikhq> Christians generally hold that their beliefs are literal, absolute truth about the world we live in.
04:37:29 <zzo38> Such things as "it makes you feel better" and so on don't help if you are trying to prove it.
04:37:38 <pikhq> That being... not surprising.
04:38:07 <pikhq> Few people convince themselves to believe things for reasons other than they genuinely think it's true.
04:38:23 <doesthiswork> an he was like "I don't see how saying that Christianity is true if it makes you feel better would upset anyone, I was doing you a favor".
04:38:55 <pikhq> Granted, if Christianity is true, holding Christian beliefs ought to make you feel better.
04:39:04 <pikhq> But that alone is a bad reason to believe something.
04:39:14 <pikhq> And won't really convince many people.
04:39:24 <doesthiswork> he was very depressed for a several years so he put a pretty high value on feeling better
04:39:51 <pikhq> *Understandable*, but doesn't mean I have to give much credence to the argument.
04:40:02 <pikhq> Just means that why it's convincing to him is understandable.
04:42:00 <doesthiswork> I think that a small change to "A thing is CALLED true if and only if it is useful to believe it." would be less disagreeable
04:42:12 <doesthiswork> but there are many pointless things that are true anyway
04:48:15 <Wolfgang_> God news its hard to make this bubble universe pop
04:53:20 <doesthiswork> Have you folk seen lambdu? http://www.lamdu.org/
04:58:10 <zzo38> Live programming as well as AST canonical representation are both ideas that have had before (and MegaZeux does store programs as something like a AST (but it isn't a tree) instead of as text, although they are edited as text).
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05:02:10 <zzo38> Lamdu does have some interesting ideas too though.
05:03:23 <doesthiswork> I don't have any profound thoughts about it, but I like live programming
05:09:25 <quintopia> zzo38: is it easier to program famicom or super famicom?
05:10:30 <zzo38> I don't know how to program Super Famicom therefore I don't know the answer of your question.
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06:22:08 <oerjan> @tell fizzie the wiki link seems down again
06:23:42 <oerjan> @tell fizzie in fact, i think it may have been down for nearly a week
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12:54:28 <fizzie> @tell oerjan that's a shame
12:54:51 <fizzie> @tell oerjan (but also true)
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13:38:22 <HackEgo> welcome.is//Halló og verið velkomin á hinn alþjóðlegann miðpunkt fyrir esoteríska forritunarmálshönnun og dreifingu. Meiri upplýsingar er hægt að nálgast á wikinu <http://esolangs.org/>. (Fyrir annarskonar esoterík prufið #esoteric á EFnet eða DALnet.)
13:38:51 <boily> there can be three hoovers between a `wisdom and the answer.
13:39:35 <int-e> so apparently my CaC VM lost its IP address... yay
13:40:02 <Phantom___Hoover> boily, i'm trying to make hexchat look not like shit because xchat's been officially taken behind the shed and shot
13:42:28 <boily> Phantom___Helloover. what's the issue?
13:42:49 <Phantom___Hoover> firstly it changed all the interface colours to stupid bullshit
13:43:21 <Phantom___Hoover> even though both are set to dejavu sans mono 9, hexchat's text is way less condensed and looks like shit
13:46:15 <int-e> w i d e c h a r a c t e r s
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13:47:51 <Phantom___Hoover> int-e, do you know a way to adjust this? #hexchat are predictably blaming it on everyone else
13:48:16 <int-e> I use irssi, so it's up to the terminal emulator anyway.
13:48:24 <boily> ＥＸＰＡＮＤ ＹＯＵＲ ＣＨＡＲＡＣＴＥＲＳ
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13:49:36 <int-e> uhm... IP is back? How, why?
13:50:59 <int-e> so why did I go through all the trouble to change the root password on the console...
13:51:28 <int-e> oh, IP is there, but ssh doesn't work, stranger and stranger.
13:52:46 <int-e> I'm pinging the wrong IP :)
13:56:40 <int-e> boily: okay... there's no dhcp involved, /etc/network/interfaces just lists an IP and a gateway, and those, apparently, no longer exist.
13:56:49 <int-e> such a lovely provider
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14:01:40 <HackEgo> goat//Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details.
14:04:31 <boily> `learn Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details.
14:04:40 <HackEgo> Relearned 'goat': Goats will eat and drink anything, except tea. Solain is unavailable for details.
14:04:44 <HackEgo> war//A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age.
14:09:59 <HackEgo> axiom of choice//The axiom of choice is equivalent to the Free Will Principle and Zeno's Lemma.
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14:12:26 <boily> Phantom___Hoover: better now?
14:12:55 <Phantom___Hoover> i toggled custom dpi setting on and off in xfce's appearance panel and it looks ok now
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14:18:03 <int-e> "Thank you for submitting a ticket with Cloud At Cost. Your request has been assigned the ticket number 62857nnn." ... hope those IDs aren't sequential :P
14:20:07 <izabera> iirc they took 3 weeks to reply to my last ticket
14:20:09 <int-e> (it would probably be easier all around to delete the VM and set up a new one... but then it'll have a different IP!)
14:20:37 <int-e> that's fine... the only "important" thing running on it is mroman's Burlesque shell?
14:22:01 <int-e> basically I'm trying to get my money's worth of entertainment out of this "service".
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15:28:47 <boily> @tell quintopia QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA! won't be home during the day, but will be back tonight for maybe shooting, depending on health.
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16:28:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Modular SNUSP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50736 * Ais523 * (+33) redirect
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19:13:34 <deltab> Phantom_Hoover: the ascenders in hexchat are a pixel higher: some kind of subtle scaling?
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23:00:28 <quintopia> ais523: the spam filter just blocked an edit from me that contained no links.
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23:00:43 <edmundas> Is it possible to program god like AI with this?
23:01:11 <edmundas> Or atleast an program which would read percentage of how much each of your chakra is open?
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23:03:25 <ais523> <ais523> quintopia: it doesn't show on the spam filter, unless you were using a werd account name
23:03:27 <ais523> <ais523> what message did you get?
23:03:53 <quintopia> The text you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site.
23:04:20 <ais523> I didn't even realise that was still active
23:05:11 <ais523> according to its documentation it's disabled, and nothing there seems likely to match something you wrote
23:05:21 <ais523> unless it's "End of rules" and there's been a crazy parsing mishap somewhere
23:05:51 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if it's pulling from Meta?
23:06:01 <edmundas> Is it possible to program an AI which would read my chakra levels
23:06:08 <ais523> like, we were using the Meta WMF blacklist back in 2012
23:06:27 <ais523> maybe it turned back on again by mistake during a server migration
23:06:34 <edmundas> I will check wiki to make sure that it's wrong chanel
23:07:10 <ais523> although it doesn't show as enabled on the version page
23:07:53 <ais523> quintopia: not everything here is a link: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Spam_blacklist
23:07:58 <ais523> you might want to see if any of the regexes there match your edit
23:08:00 <quintopia> ill try to do the edit on pc to see if its some weird browser interaction
23:08:09 <ais523> if so, there are shenanigans going on, but only fizzie will be able to fix them
23:10:38 <quintopia> it seems unlikely those would match since i wrote no URLs
23:10:51 <ais523> some aren't URLs, but even so, it seems unlikely there'd be a match
23:11:01 <ais523> the other possibility is that it's hitting some sort of blacklist at the MediaWiki config level
23:11:12 <ais523> but I don't even have /read/ access to that blacklist (despite being an admin), so I couldn't tell you what's on it
23:11:36 <ais523> (back in the very old days of Esolang, there were some fun things on the blacklist like "<div", which we discovered by experiment, but those have thankfully long since been removed)
23:12:16 <quintopia> @ask fizzie MARSHALL, HELLLLLLLLLLLP!
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23:55:50 <fizzie> I don't know about that blacklist.
23:56:14 <fizzie> There is a "SpamBlacklist" extension, but that's not enabled.
23:57:30 <quintopia> fizzie: oh hi. let me send you the text and see if you can diagnose
23:57:37 <fizzie> The message comes from "spamprotectiontext" message, I know that much.
00:00:31 <fizzie> As far as I can tell from the sources, there's a special hidden "spam" field it checks (for spammers that auto-fill all fields), but I doubt you're hitting that.
00:00:45 <fizzie> And there's a "matchSummarySpamRegex" check.
00:01:13 <fizzie> Oh, and "matchSpamRegex" as well.
00:03:12 <fizzie> But the default settings for wg(Summary)?SpamRegex is an empty array, and we don't set that in our local configuration, so it's not that.
00:03:50 <fizzie> But sure, send me the text. Email if it's long.
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00:04:48 <fizzie> (ConfirmEdit has a "blacklist" file of naughty words, but I believe that's only meant to apply for skipping CAPTCHA questions where the answers would be bad.)
00:06:29 <fizzie> SpamBlacklist does sound like the most likely culprit (it would use that error message, and it's meant for blocking links to "bad" hosts), but that shouldn't be on.
00:07:03 <quintopia> As of January 2016, the pages associated with the contest have been taken down from the website without explanation and without any winners being announced. It is unclear why the organizers never selected a winner or whether another iteration of the contest will be attempted.
00:09:26 <fizzie> I'm not a very good MediaWiki admin. I don't know if it has any useful logs anywhere.
00:09:38 <fizzie> The web server error log doesn't look particularly informative, at least.
00:12:08 <fizzie> Things seem to work for me. How did it behave when you were logging in?
00:12:18 <quintopia> i've turned off adblock on the wiki domain. why can't i log in?
00:12:33 <quintopia> maybe you could add the above text to the calesyta 2016 page for me
00:13:26 <ais523> btw, has anyone emailed CALESYTA to ask what's going on?
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00:14:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CALESYTA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50737&oldid=50324 * Fizzie * (+245) /* 2016 CE */ A non-update update on behalf of quintopia.
00:14:30 <fizzie> No spam filter complaints. I don't know what was going on.
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00:19:31 <quintopia> i'm gonna see if making a new account lets me log in.
00:20:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: commands: not found
00:22:38 <quintopia> what is the answer to the befunge captcha? the question doesn't display correctly
00:24:27 <fizzie> Anyway, there is no "the answer", it's a dynamic CAPTCHA.
00:24:52 <fizzie> Oh, right, the <code> tags show up as text.
00:25:11 <int-e> Hmm, my first Monday comic this weeks disappointed. (Sandra and Woo)
00:25:53 <quintopia> it has this: 9054872212>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@
00:25:55 <fizzie> The part between the tags should be a valid Befunge oneliner. But you can also just omit the '9', reverse the rest of the digits, and convert from base-9 to decimal.
00:26:01 <quintopia> there may be a line break before the last #
00:26:28 <fizzie> I think that's likely 92109519 then.
00:26:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DavidRutter * New user account
00:27:15 <fizzie> I think I was told about the <code> problem, but forgot.
00:27:30 <quintopia> okay so the account creation works, but i'm still not logged in.
00:27:39 <quintopia> obviously i'm having caching issues
00:29:35 <fizzie> I vaguely recall I've had some issues as to staying logged in, especially when mixing http://, https:// and www.esolangs.org and esolangs.org.
00:29:53 <fizzie> https://esolangs.org/ is the canonically correct name.
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00:34:29 <lambdabot> fizzie said 11h 40m ago: that's a shame
00:34:29 <lambdabot> fizzie said 11h 39m 37s ago: (but also true)
00:36:58 <quintopia> yeah i was using the canonical one
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01:07:23 <HackEgo> [U+03BB GREEK SMALL LETTER LAMDA]
01:07:46 <int-e> I just found a remark on wikipedia about this, 'Unicode uses the spelling "lamda" in character names, instead of "lambda", due to " preferences expressed by the Greek National Body".'
01:08:21 <shachaf> So that's why LATIN SMALL LETTER LAMBDA WITH STROKE is spelled thus.
01:17:17 <int-e> Hmpf. That almost makes sense.
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01:34:52 <hppavilion1> I wonder if the wire-crossing problem has effects on social graphs
01:36:08 <hppavilion1> Like, if your social graph can be written (or can't be written) without crossing wires, are there any interesting properties of that graph?
01:36:32 <ais523> hppavilion1: a social graph that doesn't contain K5 is /really/ dysfunctional
01:37:05 <ais523> hppavilion1: the smallest possible nonplanar graph
01:37:19 <ais523> all nonplanar graphs have either K5 or K3,3 as a subgraph (many have both)
01:37:20 <int-e> hppavilion1: that's just a clique of size 5
01:37:46 <ais523> right, 5 people who are all friends of each other
01:37:59 <zgrep> 5? Some people have an entire 5 friends!?
01:38:00 <ais523> that said, I'm really curious as to what sort of social graph would contain K3,3 but /not/ K5…
01:38:08 <ais523> zgrep: you only need 4
01:38:21 <zgrep> Some people have an entire 4 friends!?
01:38:22 <hppavilion1> ais523: Ah, K_5 is the complete graph of 5 points.
01:38:28 <int-e> ais523: embedding, not subgraph?
01:39:17 <ais523> you have to be able to shrink vertices as well as edges
01:39:25 <ais523> for that theorem to hold
01:39:44 <hppavilion1> ais523: That is an interesting question...
01:42:13 <hppavilion1> (complete graph of 4, one additional connected to 3 of the 4)
01:42:27 <ais523> hppavilion1: that's called K_5-, and yes, it is; create a triangle, place an extra point inside and an extra point outside
01:43:24 <hppavilion1> ais523: I'd seen https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/CGK4PLN.svg and I realized I could place a point near the bottom left or right and connect it to the outer vertices but not the middle point
01:44:09 <hppavilion1> ais523: Oh, or I could place it in the middle of the triangle formed by the bottom two and the central point and connect it to those 3 (a K_4 within a K_4, if you will)
01:44:33 <hppavilion1> By the central point and two of the outer vertices, that is
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01:46:03 <int-e> hmm, planarity was a fun (ymmv) game... I wonder whether it's still around.
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01:52:26 <hppavilion1> ais523: Actually, I don't know if I meet K_5
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01:57:26 <boily> I came in the chat.
01:57:32 <boily> can't tonight, stomach on strike...
01:57:46 <boily> going back to bed and/or porcelain...
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02:12:08 <oerjan> int-e: tatham's puzzles has "untangle", which is really about planarity hth
02:15:26 <oerjan> @tell int-e tatham's puzzles has "untangle", which is really about planarity hth
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02:22:20 <int-e> oerjan: the description links to planarity, with a link to a website that still works (and now has a javascript version of the game... though it's missing some nice interludes that the original had)
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02:26:05 <int-e> or maybe the interludes were part of a gtk adaptation that I played? I forgot.
02:27:38 <zzo38> I found that the quit command in my SDL-based program will not respond slowly if audio is not initialized.
02:31:27 <int-e> yes, pretty sure that's it (the adaptation is called "gplanarity") and has a few tweaks (for example, levels with non-planar graphs where you need to minimize the number of crossings instead)
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08:13:27 <zzo38> Can Wii remote be use with SDL?
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10:27:20 <izabera> This includes the old assignment: Write a sort that correctly sorts its input when a constant number of comparisons will fail http://stackoverflow.com/a/36828960/2815203
10:35:47 <Hoolootwo> a trivial and terribly inefficient way would be to sort it normally, then check if the list is sorted at least n times, where n is the number of comparison failures
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11:03:33 <izabera> if you have a million integers and 3 comparison can fail, do you need 3 million comparisons?
11:05:02 <int-e> note that for 2 elements, if 3 comparisons may fail, you actually need 7 comparisons to be sure... but I would be hoping for an O(log n) overhead (if the number of failing comparisons is fixed)
11:05:55 <int-e> anyway, interesting problem, and I have no time for it right now...
11:10:45 <int-e> actually my hope seems to be unjustified...
11:12:26 <int-e> (To tell the difference between a < b < c < d and a < c < b < d, you have to establish the comparison between b and c beyond any doubt... so you need to compare b and c four times to make certain that the comparison wasn't lying about the relationship between b and c.)
11:19:20 <int-e> Nut in any case, sorting parsimoniously and then checking (using bubble sort to correct the lies) should be efficient, taking about 4n (plus a few) extra comparisons.
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12:42:47 <Jafet> the answer below that one is appropriately redundant, with recommendations for using CRC checksums on RAM memory
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16:13:38 <Taneb> Maths lecturer quote: "[in this course] rings are always commutative, except for when they are not"
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16:39:00 <int-e> that's good to know, or perhaps not.
16:39:15 <\oren\> wasn't there a cute name for a non comutatvie ring?
16:39:35 <int-e> \oren\: are you thinking of "rng" for rings without 1?
16:39:57 <\oren\> oh, right that was the one that didn't have a cute name
16:40:15 <int-e> (if it's really about commutativity I don't know the answer)
16:41:01 <\oren\> but then there's just "non commutative ring"
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16:48:35 <\oren\> hmm I wonder what sort of algebraic structures you could make with functions (x,y) -> (z,w) with the requirement that they are all invertible?
16:48:49 <int-e> @tell oerjan http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170106 http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170116 ... am I the only one who's expecting that "Queen of the Dawn" to stab Martellus any moment now?
16:49:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50738&oldid=50718 * Raddish0 * (+128)
16:51:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Raddish0]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50739 * Raddish0 * (+83) Created page with "Hey, I'm raddish0. I'm a 13yr old Who is interested in good, esoteric codegolfing."
16:51:13 <\oren\> that is to say what is the algebra for reversible computing?
16:51:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MMP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50740 * Raddish0 * (+1121) Created page with "MMP - MicroMathProcessor This language is build to do math. I suppose that a 'MMP+' could include text output, but currently all I/O is integer because I want all programs t..."
16:54:04 <\oren\> well this one isn't quite a brainfuck equivalent
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17:51:52 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yesterday I got this idea of taking a photo of some small thing on top of a phone, with the phone's screen showing a photo in a suitably perspective-corrected way (w.r.t. where the camera is) so that the thing on top would kinda-sorta look to be part of the photo.
17:51:58 <fizzie> It didn't really turn out as exciting-looking as I hoped, but at least I tried.
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18:19:18 <fizzie> Well, there were some depth-of-field issues. I tried to do focus stacking with enfuse, but the phone's screen's pixel grid got pretty messed-up anyway.
18:19:24 <fizzie> https://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/31485162894/
18:20:46 <fizzie> (That's not focus stacked at all, I just picked one arbitrary shot.)
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19:44:51 <zzo38> Someone on here has mentioned before that my SDL binding for JavaScript is a bit problem because it support only SDL1 and not SDL2. In order to allow the implementation also to be written that would support SDL2, I have added a few functions that do nothing on SDL1, which are SDL.prototype.setMapping() and Surface.prototype.seal(). If you work with SDL2 you can also suggest others.
19:49:17 <zzo38> I did have idea of a few other functions to implement, which would be implemented on SDL1, although an implementation that uses SDL2 may be able to implement them more efficiently by use of OpenGL or something else perhaps. They are: SDL.prototype.createDisplay() SDL.prototype.display() Surface.prototype.createBob()
19:52:28 <izabera> /* We're in trouble since we can't free the already allocated memory. [allocated from strdup(filame)]
19:52:30 <izabera> * Well, after all, when malloc returns NULL we're already in a bad mood, and no doubt the
19:52:32 <izabera> * program will manage to segfault by itself very soon :-). */
19:52:50 <zzo38> What program is that from?
19:53:48 <izabera> https://github.com/ensc/dietlibc/blob/master/libshell/glob.c#L132-L135
19:58:36 <zzo38> Do you have any test cases for implementing X resource manager?
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00:21:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50741&oldid=50738 * Oerjan * (+0) Order!
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00:34:30 <lambdabot> int-e said 7h 45m 40s ago: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170106 http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20170116 ... am I the only one who's expecting that "Queen of the
00:34:30 <lambdabot> Dawn" to stab Martellus any moment now?
00:35:36 <oerjan> @tell int-e hm i hadn't thought of that, i was assuming she'd try to wasp him or whatever she's done to control the northern sparks
00:48:29 <hppavilion1> I made an svg of K_5- that I can't find a place to put, and I thought of going for the wiki (it'd probably have use elsewhere as well), but the wiki doesn't seem to support svg
00:49:59 <oerjan> anyone else probably can't fix it.
00:50:12 <hppavilion1> Wait, it's a derivative of a Wikipedia one, so it can't go on the wiki, can it...
00:50:12 <oerjan> (well technically Gregor could)
00:51:45 <Gregor> I have access, but I didn't set it up and know nothing about its setup/configuration/etc.
00:52:23 <fizzie> I just migrated it over, and know next to nothing about MediaWiki, but I'm a bit surprised at not having SVG support. Maybe it needs a thing.
00:52:51 <fizzie> Apparently it still needs to be explicitly enabled.
00:53:02 <fizzie> (And the SVG converter selected.)
00:54:51 <oerjan> i'd have thought someone would have used SVG already - there are all kinds of pictures on the wiki these days.
00:56:06 <int-e> oerjan: same idea, stabbing just sounds more dramatic ;)
00:56:57 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes, but they're all jeipegs, pengs or jiffs.
00:57:07 <fizzie> Possibly because we haven't enabled SVG support.
00:57:44 <oerjan> fizzie: are you trying to give people pronunciation aneurysms, it won't work on me though
00:58:34 <int-e> use tiff, the pronouncible image format!
01:00:23 <int-e> (I think that's about the only positive thing that can be said about tiff, unless you count flexibility as an advantage)
01:00:52 <int-e> you know, the "union of N standards" kind of flexibiity.
01:01:25 <fizzie> I believe it's still somehow the high-bit-depth image format everyone uses.
01:05:40 <int-e> hmm, why am I playing gplanarity...
01:05:43 <fizzie> I believe 16-bits-per-channel PNGs were a thing all the way from PNG 1.0, and still people put that stuff in tiffs.
01:06:31 <fizzie> There's a planarity game in the sgtatham puzzle collection.
01:06:56 <fizzie> I play it on my phone sometimes.
01:08:20 <int-e> but gplanarity has the twist that many levels are actually based on crossing numbers
01:09:33 <fizzie> I think I played gplanarity as well. It's definitely more elaborate.
01:09:46 <int-e> so you get "Objective: 3 intersections" or "Objective: fewer than 7 intersections"
01:09:58 <hppavilion1> fizzie: It needs to be turned on, but it doesn't appear to need an extension or anything crazy
01:10:59 <fizzie> Well, it does need a converter for rendering. Though the (un-recommended) ImageMagick is probably on already.
01:11:14 <int-e> (and you get bonus points for lower numbers of intersections, argh)
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02:22:07 <HackEgo> higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
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02:25:45 <HackEgo> hppavilion1//higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
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03:44:50 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:46:55 <hppavilion1> oerjan: Do you ever say 'Uff da' (sometimes also spelled huffda, uff-da, uffda, uff-dah, oofda, ufda, ufdah, oofta, or uf daa)
03:48:10 <oerjan> nowhere near as commonly as the minnesotan stereotype, i hear
03:48:30 <oerjan> also i would say "uff då" in my dialect.
03:50:10 <oerjan> nynorsk and bokmål aren't dialects hth
03:50:26 <oerjan> although it's accidentally identical to the nynorsk spelling, i think
03:51:29 * hppavilion1 is 1000000000 ppb Norwegian on his father's side
03:52:16 <oerjan> i speak a northern norwegian dialect. we tend to chop off suffixes on things...
03:52:51 <oerjan> especially the infinitive.
03:54:55 <oerjan> i suppose i would use "uff då" more if i was the kind of person to try hard not to swear...
03:55:14 <oerjan> it's really sort of a very weak euphemism.
03:55:59 * \oren\ is ~10% irish but doesn't knwo any irish
03:56:43 <\oren\> I barely know any french either.
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04:06:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50742&oldid=50741 * Dpleshkov * (+86) /* Introductions */
04:07:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50743 * Dpleshkov * (+538) A two-command esoteric language
04:08:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50744&oldid=50743 * Dpleshkov * (-9)
04:10:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50745&oldid=50688 * Dpleshkov * (+18) /* M */
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04:29:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50746&oldid=50742 * Oerjan * (+0) ORDER, i said
04:30:09 <oerjan> suddenly there are two in a day who put it at the beginning.
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06:15:10 <pikhq> Huh. Norway might be the easiest country to immigrate to, legally speaking, period.
06:22:22 <oerjan> i haven't really been paying attention though
06:24:28 <pikhq> If you don't mind being Svalbard, the requirements to move to Norway are: afford a plane ticket.
06:24:48 <pikhq> *being in Svalbard.
06:25:21 <oerjan> just be aware that you're then not included in the general norwegian welfare system.
06:25:40 <pikhq> But, 7 years later you can apply for citizenship.
06:25:55 <pikhq> Which, granted, seems like *more* than sufficient payment in exchange for living there. :P
06:30:18 <pikhq> Of course, I imagine it's a bit tricky being *employed* in Svalbard.
06:33:47 <oerjan> i vaguely think there are various research facilities.
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06:35:00 <pikhq> Yes, I was more referring to the fact that it's sparsely populated.
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06:35:18 <pikhq> 2,600 people "sparse".
06:35:30 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Pong
06:35:31 <lambdabot> boily said 3d 18h 21m 29s ago: hppavellon[1]. please peruse the unbracketed message.
06:37:08 <hppavilion[1]> hppavilion1 should time out aaaaaanyyyy second now
06:37:26 <oerjan> it's connecting from the same ip you are, there ought to be _some_ way for you to kill it :P
06:37:52 <pikhq> Of course, *sparsely* populated is different from "literally no population": there are in fact real, permanent jobs in Svalbard, and if you really wanted to you certainly could move there and live there as long as you felt like.
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06:40:05 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Well, as I was previously discussing, here is how you move to Svalbard: get a job there. Move.
06:40:24 <pikhq> You, yes you, have the legal right to permanently live in Svalbard.
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07:15:56 <Jafet> so svalbard is like the bay area, then?
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11:33:49 <b_jonas> http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3592.html heh heh heh heh heh
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11:45:36 <FireFly> the part I'm wondering is if legally living in Svalbard counts toward getting a permit for living in Norway
11:48:02 <FireFly> "Generally, it is possible to naturalise as a Norwegian citizen after residing in Norway seven years over the last ten years, if the applicant qualifies for permanent residence and does not have a criminal record.[citation needed]"
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13:24:47 <Morph1> Hello greetings to all
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13:30:11 <ais523_> this may be the first time I've used the underscore in months or even years?
13:30:47 <b_jonas> does Aether Revolt (the latest expert M:tG expansion set) have two different Ajani Planeswalkers, none of which are reprints? and why?
13:31:10 <ais523_> one of them is from an introductory set called Aether Revolt: Planeswalker Decks
13:31:14 <b_jonas> Neither of them are double-faced or flip or anything, right?
13:31:23 <ais523_> the cards in it are intentionally underpowered in order to prevent anyone but new players wanting htem
13:31:41 <ais523_> but they like to include a planeswalker in the decks because planeswalkers are splashy and new players like owning them
13:31:48 <b_jonas> ais523: ah yes, planeswalker decks, that thing that replaces core sets
13:31:51 <ais523_> so it's an intentionally powered-down planeswalker for the purpose of the product
13:31:59 <ais523_> it's Standard-legal but won't appear in boosters
13:32:55 <ais523_> well, the explanation makes sense to me at the most superficial level
13:32:58 <b_jonas> all these stupid products they're doing
13:33:05 <ais523_> however it's an indicator of deeper decisions that may be harder to explain
13:33:24 <ais523_> planeswalker decks are the replacement for duel decks I think
13:34:02 <b_jonas> I concluded that Welcome Decks are basically the continuation of core sets, only they don't come with boosters
13:34:21 <ais523_> they're very different from core sets
13:34:38 <ais523_> core sets used to be where they printed basic effects like Lightning Strike in order to ensure that they stayed in Standard
13:35:05 <ais523_> welcome decks are basically just a small selection of cards to act as a teaser for new players to get them excited, they're given away for free
13:35:25 <ais523_> planeswalker decks are the entrance-level paid product, but are very weak
13:35:29 <b_jonas> ais523_: and? don't Welcome Decks contain such basic effects too? they're standard and modern legal for a while.
13:36:09 <ais523_> this has indirectly lead to removal becoming very weak recently, which might indirectly have lead to the bannings
13:38:10 <ais523_> incidentally, I predicted a while ago that there'd be standard bannings while Kaladesh block was in Standard, but I didn't realise they'd come so soon
13:38:43 <ais523_> and it's at least partly a side effect of BFZ block being terrible and SOI block being balanced incorrectly, rather than of Kaladesh block itself
13:40:29 * ais523_ wonders why Java has a UnicastRemoteObject but no other sorts of RemoteObject, the "Unicast" qualifier looks a lot like it's disambiguating something but it apparently has nothing to disambiguate?
13:45:06 <b_jonas> ais: Magic 2015 and Origins have extra cards that don't occur in boosters but only in precon decks, are all reprints, are standard (and modern) legal for as long as the core set is, and are printed with the expansion symbol of the core set. they're not cards most players want. I assume that Welcome Deck is a continuation of the same thing, because it's also all precon decks, no boosters, all reprints, standard legal for a rotation, they just don't have a
13:45:14 <b_jonas> \ I assume that Welcome Deck is a continuation of the same thing, because it's also all precon decks, no boosters, all reprints, standard legal for a rotation, they just don't have an associated core set.
13:46:43 <b_jonas> Welcome Deck 2016 is that product, I assume it'll be a series of products because it has a number, it's published about a year after Origins.
13:47:46 <b_jonas> Welcome Deck 2016 apparently has 5 decks of 30 cards each, although I couldn't find decklists of them, but 30 cards is ridiculous if it was really intended to be played as precon decks, after they specifically made core sets starting from M2010 (IIRC) have 60 card precon decks rather than 40 card ones so that players can play them immediately.
13:48:39 <b_jonas> As for the Planeswalker Decks, I don't understand what they are, so I'm fine believing they're like duel decks, some of which also had planeswalkers.
13:49:52 <ais523_> Welcome Decks are purely intended for new players to get an idea of what the game is like, I think they're only meant to be played against other Welcome Decks
13:49:58 <b_jonas> Planeswalker decks are 60 card decks with slightly fancy packaging, so that's quite possible.
13:51:17 <b_jonas> "only meant to be played against other Welcome Decks" => that sounds sort of strange. I mean, if you want to give new players a feel of what the game is like, then a deck they can customize by replacing cards and still play sounds like it would be a better idea (even if they aren't actually _good_ at deckbuilding yet)
13:52:05 <ais523_> they want people to spend money at that point :-P
13:52:13 <ais523_> the point is that the Welcome Decks are given away for free
13:52:39 <b_jonas> http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/ramp-approval-2016-05-16 says "The cards in [Welcome Decks] are Standard-legal and you can combine any two sample decks to make a deck legal at a Standard tournament."
13:56:43 <b_jonas> "Java has a UnicastRemoteObject but no other sorts of RemoteObject, the "Unicast" qualifier looks a lot like it's disambiguating something but it apparently has nothing to disambiguate?" => could be a disambiguation against potential future additions?
13:57:40 <ais523_> I'm not even sure what a MulticastRemoteObject or BroadcastRemoteObject would be semantically, thoguh
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13:59:50 <b_jonas> ais523_: as an example, the C++14 standard has classes mutex, timed_mutex, and shared_timed_mutex. timed means you can do a timed wait on it, which isn't the default because it gives overhead even if you don't use that feature; shared means it's a read-write lock.
14:00:27 <b_jonas> there's no shared_mutex in that standard, but they opted to put "timed" into shared_timed_mutex because they decided maybe in the future they'd add a non-timed shared_mutex.
14:00:47 <b_jonas> and shared_mutex is indeed planned for the future C++17 standard.
14:15:45 <b_jonas> The first M:tG product I bought was the blue-black theme deck of Coldsnap, called "Snowscape". This one includes 23 snow-covered basic lands, and they're really needed too, because a lot of cards care about snow mana or snow permanents, Rimewind Taskmage the most importantly.
14:17:27 <ais523_> huh, you started only just after me, then (I started with 9th edition, which is 4 sets earlier)
14:17:41 <ais523_> but I gave up early during Lorwyn and haven't continued since
14:17:41 <b_jonas> The snow lands are the most expensive part of the deck, costing more than the rares. No wonder, since they're almost always better than basic lands, which is something Wizards rarely dares to do, and they aren't legendary.
14:18:14 <ais523_> basically because I got my cards via booster packs and I didn't see anything to inspire me in the first few Lorwyn boosters I opened
14:18:33 <b_jonas> I didn't say I _started_ then. It's the first product I owned, not the first one I played. I started one earlier, during Dissension.
14:19:28 <ais523_> I admit I rather like Coldsnap, even if most people consider it to have been a bad idea
14:19:48 <ais523_> cards like Martyr of Sands and Rite of Flame are both really interesting (although Rite of Flame ended up getting banned in Modern...)
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14:21:50 <b_jonas> (I know it's Dissension, not earlier in the Ravnica block, becuase Sky Hussar was in the first decks I played with.)
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14:23:56 <b_jonas> I also think the snow lands are sort of a bad idea. Think about it: you need 23 to build your deck, this applies to a lot of decks, because even in decks that have less of a snow theme than this precon, they're almost surely better than ordinary basic lands, but they're distributed only as commons. It's the same mistake as early core sets made by distributing basic lands only as commons,
14:24:49 <b_jonas> except by the time of Coldsnap they should have known about this problem.
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14:28:17 <b_jonas> It's worse than when they printed tribal themes that require you to get 30 elves or 30 clerics or 30 soldiers for your deck, because there's only five snow-covered basic lands (there are other snow mana producers but they aren't nearly as good as basics), whereas there are tons of different elves and soldiers and clerics in lots of previous sets.
14:28:43 <ais523_> when snow lands were originally printed, there were a bunch of snow land hosers printed at the same time
14:28:48 <ais523_> to make it a decision whether you wanted them or not
14:28:58 <ais523_> by Coldsnap, though, they decided that was a bad iae
14:29:25 <ais523_> anyway, one of the issues I have with Magic is that the average quality of a playable land appears to be higher than that of a basic land
14:29:31 <ais523_> in most formats, people hardly use basics
14:29:49 <ais523_> maybe one or two to allow for enemy nonbasic hosers
14:30:25 <ais523_> also, I think Boreal Druid and Scrying Sheets are probably the best nonbasic snow mana producers
14:31:41 <b_jonas> there are a few snow land hosers, sure, but not many
14:34:53 <b_jonas> and the problem isn't only snow mana producers, but also Snow permanents and Snow lands, because this theme deck has a lot of cards caring about that: Rimewind Taskmage (of which the precon has 3 but you want 4 really), Balduvian Frostwaker, Rimefeather Owl, Heidar etc.
14:35:08 <ais523_> anyway, the snow lands are fairly balanced, in that they have a notable opportunity cost (you can't run nonbasics instead)
14:35:38 <ais523_> but this is more an issue with nonbasics being broken than with snow lands being nonbroken
14:36:21 <ais523_> High Tide plays a bunch of blue-fetching lands even though it has nothing but Islands to fetch, for example (mostly for the free shuffle)
14:36:31 <ais523_> and they have a lot of functionality on top of that!
14:37:42 <b_jonas> "the average quality of a playable land appears to be higher than that of a basic land" => isn't that in a large part because of ravnica rare dual lands, which also raise the value of the one and half search land cycles?
14:38:12 <ais523_> I think the fetch lands are better even in the abstract than the shock lands
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14:38:31 <ais523_> however, filter lands are also considered very good (it's just that fetch, shock, and Alpha duals are better)
14:39:18 <b_jonas> It's true that even if you only buy cheap cards like me, nonbasic lands are often worth in many decks,
14:39:21 <ais523_> and fastlands (the ones that come into play tapped if you already have too many other lands) are playable in Modern as well
14:39:34 <b_jonas> both because they're flexible, as in, I can buy a nonbasic once and put it to many different decks,
14:40:51 <b_jonas> and because some really seem almost better than basic lands in some decks (I've used Ancient Ziggurat even though I'm not even building sliver decks).
14:42:22 <ais523_> `card-by-name Ancient Ziggurat
14:42:38 <HackEgo> Ancient Ziggurat \ Land \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast a creature spell. \ CON-U, H09-U
14:42:48 <ais523_> that doesn't seem very sliver-related
14:42:58 <ais523_> although I guess sliver decks tend to have a higher proportion of creatures than most
14:43:02 <b_jonas> (I also used Terramorphic Expanse for color fixing and free shuffle, but I haven't manged to make that deck work well YET, so it doesn't count.)
14:43:26 <ais523_> what set is H09, anyway? I'm guessing CON is Conspiracy 1?
14:43:45 <b_jonas> CON is Conflux (in the Alara block)
14:44:20 <ais523_> I guess a syllable duplication would be inevitable by now
14:44:36 <b_jonas> cough Legends Legions cough
14:44:53 <ais523_> that's not a duplicated syllable, just a duplicated first three characters :-P
14:45:13 <b_jonas> It's true that sliver decks have a lot of creatures, but that's also true to many other tribal decks like elf decks; but also Sliver decks are often multicolor (there are two-color, three-color, and five-color versions), and they're very easy to build powerful in casual constructed.
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14:47:54 <b_jonas> Two-color ones might not need anything special apart from the Gemhide/Manaweft sliver you almost certainly put in any sliver decks, but three-color sliver decks want a lot of color fixing, and the Ziggurat and Cavern of Souls help a lot there.
14:48:23 <ais523_> the best deck I own is a five-colour sliver deck that's base green
14:48:31 <ais523_> it fixes just fine on /just/ Gemhides
14:48:43 <ais523_> and a fairly random assortment of lands, and a couple of Coalition Relics
14:48:55 <ais523_> (Manaweft Sliver hadn't been printed at the time)
14:49:00 <b_jonas> And the Ziggurat is cheap because it got printed as uncommon, unlike many of the more powerful color fixers. (Ravnica has the karoos and the signets as a big exception.)
14:49:02 <ais523_> (although it's better in basically every case)
14:50:26 <b_jonas> And the deal is, sliver decks were already good in casual before Time Spiral, and they've printed more slivers in the Time Spiral block and M14 and M15 since, which made them better.
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14:52:45 <b_jonas> ais523_: how much does that five-color sliver deck need many colors early?
14:53:01 <ais523_> most of its early plays are gemhide sliver and virulent sliver
14:53:13 <ais523_> the red and white cards are mostly toolbox cards
14:53:36 <ais523_> it's mostly aiming to play dormant sliver and then go into an infinite loop (the virulent slivers are to force the opponent to spend their removal early)
14:54:00 <ais523_> I might consider adding Beck to the deck if I ever updated it to a Modern version
14:54:36 <ais523_> because the basic idea is that if you have gemhide + basal sliver, plus a sliver that gives haste
14:54:50 <ais523_> each sliver you play gives you back 2 black mana + 1 of any colour
14:54:59 <ais523_> so you can pretty much just churn through your deck
14:55:28 <ais523_> (the more slivers you have in hand and the more lands on the battlefield you have, the less likely it is to fizzle out)
14:55:45 <ais523_> it also plays Wild Pair, which is fairly easy to find because you're churning through the deck so far
14:55:59 <ais523_> and basically immediately wins when you play it, unless the opponent can beat you or destroy the enchantment before your next turn
14:57:09 <b_jonas> Beck => interesting idea. I used Distant Melody and Ideas Unbound to churn through a deck quickly. These work even as a splash in a deck that's not very blue, because you play them late.
14:57:29 <ais523_> the deck generates so much mana that it could probably cast Beck//Call on occasion too
14:57:53 <b_jonas> (Thoughtcast and perhaps Keep Watch could also help for this.)
14:58:47 <b_jonas> But Beck and Dormant Sliver are better because you can repeat it by bouncing permanents. Just like the Soul sisters.
14:58:58 <ais523_> the deck had one Whitemane Lion in it
14:59:02 <ais523_> there are probably better choices for that nowadays
14:59:31 <b_jonas> I've even played against an entire white deck that tries to have a lot of bounces (including Norin) and lot of triggers for when a permanent etb (not only the Sould Sisters).
15:00:17 <b_jonas> Um... that doesn't square. Probably not a _white_ deck then, if it includes Norin.
15:01:10 <ais523_> you're thinking of Norin Soul Sisters
15:01:17 <ais523_> it is a primarily white deck, it splashes red for Norin
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15:04:12 <b_jonas> It's not only Soul Sisters, it has some other cards to trigger stuff.
15:05:08 <b_jonas> The Soul sisters are the least surprising card really: those cards are just too good in casual because they work in many different decks, and lifegain is worth more in casual constructed than in competitive formats probably.
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15:05:36 <b_jonas> (Congregate is a bit similar.)
15:06:10 <ais523_> lifegain is really good against aggro, that's what normally causes it to be played competitively
15:06:25 <ais523_> as a method of surviving the early onslaught of aggro decks and burn decks
15:08:15 <b_jonas> ais523_: there's also that casual games last for more turns than competitive ones, have many creatures in play more often because less board sweep, multiplayer casual games last especially longer, and the soul sisters and congregate like when other players use creatures too, which happens more in casual and even more in multiplayer.
15:08:58 <ais523_> oh, everyone uses lots of creatures in Standard nowadays
15:09:11 <ais523_> because they're so powerful compared to the other card types (except arguably planeswalkesr)
15:10:05 <b_jonas> Don't they also use board sweepers (as in Day of Judgment) in standard, as opposed to casual?
15:10:25 <ais523_> no, there are no good board sweepers in standard
15:10:47 <b_jonas> I remember back in the old days before the soul sisters came out, we even used the Angel's Feather cycle for lifegain, which is similarly better in multiplayer.
15:11:18 <ais523_> rdococ: are you complaining that the conversation's offtopic?
15:12:11 <rdococ> no, I'm reversing hi and duplicating the h
15:12:44 <ais523_> I actually have ideas for a dupdog/xigxag-alike at the moment
15:12:48 <ais523_> but haven't worked out the exact rules
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15:32:54 <b_jonas> In the C++ standard library, how come std::mutex is 40 bytes long but std::once_flag is only 4 or 8 bytes long? I thought under they hood they'd be pretty much the same thing.
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15:39:51 <alercah> b_jonas: http://refspecs.linuxbase.org/LSB_3.1.1/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/libpthread-ddefs.html
15:40:08 <alercah> (quick research showed that mutex is a wrapper around pthread_mutex_t on most posix platforms)
15:40:13 <b_jonas> alercah: thanks, I'll look
15:42:29 <b_jonas> "quick research showed that mutex is a wrapper around pthread_mutex_t on most posix platforms" => that would explain why it's big: pthread_mutex has to support timed waits, recursive mutexes, and error checking, whereas std::mutex needn't support those, and at least timed wait probably adds overhead even in the normal case
15:42:29 <b_jonas> That sounds bad though. I don't want to pay for the overhead for timed mutexes when I make ordinary mutexes.
15:45:17 <alercah> That's considered a QOI issue
15:45:19 <b_jonas> That page doesn't reveal me how once_init works though
15:46:02 <b_jonas> alercah: yes, and even though it's important, I think it's hard to fix without breaking ABI compatibility
15:47:22 <alercah> b_jonas: https://llvm.org/svn/llvm-project/libcxx/trunk/include/mutex
15:47:23 <alercah> b_jonas: https://llvm.org/svn/llvm-project/libcxx/trunk/include/mutex
15:49:02 <b_jonas> Though I guess the library might already be using the pthread_mutex in some way that isn't supported for posix where you don't pay the time penalty for the potential timed wait or error checking or recursive, but only a minor space penalty.
15:49:44 <alercah> a quick peek into call_once shows that it has a global mutex
15:50:49 <alercah> and a conditional variable... this code looks suspect to me actually
15:50:53 <alercah> but I don't have time to investigate
15:56:38 <b_jonas> alercah: thanks for the help anyway. I might try to look at implementations later.
16:05:00 <Jafet> presumably mutex::native_handle returns the underlying pthreads mutex
16:08:26 <b_jonas> I hate the native_handle functions. The library should have had different names for the accessor functions of different possible underlying implementations, so that you get a better error message when you use one that doesn't apply to your system.
16:25:09 <alercah> That would require exhaustive listing though
16:48:30 <Jafet> you could use a template to examine the return type
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17:41:30 <\oren\> holy crap they're arresting the heir to samsung?
17:42:22 <\oren\> that's like, arresting the head of half their economy
18:20:16 <alercah> man, watching shakespeare plays is weird
18:20:19 <alercah> they feel so anachronistic
18:24:27 <int-e> Hmm? They fit quite well into their own time, didn't they...
18:26:00 <pikhq> Probably the most anachronistic of them are the histories.
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19:48:09 <^v> what language did this section of come from: "=[=]()->T*{"
19:48:31 <^v> guess right and you get 1
19:49:35 <wob_jonas> The [=] starts a lambda, () is the argument list, ->T* is return type, { starts the body, = at the start is an assignment operator
19:50:00 <wob_jonas> = at start is more likely the punctuation for initializing a variable, but whatever
19:50:23 <^v> full code https://hastebin.com/uhoyamecis.cpp
19:53:45 <wob_jonas> You can tell because C++ has []() too before the braces for a lambda, rust has || before a the braces, golang sometimes has -> before a lambda but just a bare brace block works too, ruby and smalltalk usually don't have anything before a lambda if it's a function argument but do if it's standalone.
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19:58:07 <Melvar> I don’t remember go having a -> on a lambda … maybe it changed since I looked.
19:59:01 <wob_jonas> Melvar: I don't really do golang, so I could be wrong. I think I might be confusing it with digitalmars D language in fact.
19:59:39 <wob_jonas> (I know about ruby and perl and C++ syntaxes and it's complicated.)
20:04:22 <Melvar> Yeah in go it’s func(…) { … } or func(…) returntype { … } or func(…) (…) { … }
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20:27:40 <izabera> f(x) = 1 if the decimal representation of pi contains x consecutive zeros, 0 otherwise
20:27:47 <izabera> prove that f is computable
20:35:18 <wob_jonas> iza: my guess is that proving that is beyond the current state of mathematics
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20:45:35 <wob_jonas> izabera: why, do you have a proof?
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20:47:11 <Melvar> I believe there is a proof that every sequence of compatible digits appears in every base expansion of pi.
20:47:19 <izabera> if pi contains any sequence of zeros, f(x) = 1 is a correct algorithm. if there's a max N such that N consecutive zeros appear in pi, then f(x) = x < N is a correct algorithm
20:47:41 <wob_jonas> Melvar: I think that's only a conjecture, and we're very far from the proof
20:48:57 <wob_jonas> you're asking only about sequences of zeros, so you can hard-code the answer
20:56:51 <alercah> int-e: they did, but they seem anachronistic because they use many modern idioms that we got from shakespeare
20:57:07 <alercah> so it is a mix of archaic language that is hard to understand and modern expressions
20:58:29 <alercah> izabera: if you want more fun, look into graph minors
20:58:39 <alercah> for every minor-closed class, there is an algorithm to decide membership
20:58:50 <alercah> but finding the algorithm is in some cases not decidable
21:00:25 <Melvar> Oh yes, I’ve heard an anecdote where some young person coming out of a movie version of some Shakespeare play complained how full of clichés it was.
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21:10:59 <\oren\> I hate shakespeare just because he's propped up as a great writer and there are a lot of modern works that are far superior
21:13:21 <\oren\> also, for some reason they think learning to read ancient english dialect is something essential to learning english literature
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21:15:18 <\oren\> they should translate shakespeare into modern english
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21:16:19 <shachaf> a pedant might point out that people classify shakespeare as "modern english" already hth
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21:16:57 <alercah> it's sort of the dividing line actually
21:17:21 <alercah> (from a linguistics point of view, it's actually quite incredible that works as old as shakespeares are still intelligible)
21:17:39 <alercah> \oren\: I think part of the issue comes from the old British view of the classics in education
21:17:53 <alercah> similar to teaching math using Euclid's Elementsa
21:17:56 <Hoolootwo> it's intelligable mostly, I believe, because it was written in the time period when english was standardized
21:18:12 <shachaf> alercah: works much older than shakespeare are intelligible hth
21:18:23 <alercah> shachaf: that's even more incredible ;0
21:18:55 <\oren\> alercah: shakespeare wasn't intelligeble to me without footnotes
21:19:08 <alercah> \oren\: it's better live, actually
21:19:27 <alercah> At least in the school system I went through, it was specifically required to do one shakespeare play per year for several years
21:20:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Illuminati Confirmed * New user account
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21:29:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50747&oldid=50572 * Ferrosurgeon * (+310) added problems to fix
21:30:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lutfig]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50748&oldid=50747 * Ferrosurgeon * (+47) finish parenthetical
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22:12:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50749&oldid=50746 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+297) /* Introductions */
22:12:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50750 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+3975) Created page with "'''Faggit''' is a new special unuseful programming language. The main goal of '''Faggit''' is to say a random amount of times the world "Faggit" to the output. Dont try to use..."
22:14:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50751&oldid=50750 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+99) /* (Un)Useful specifications */
22:15:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50752&oldid=50751 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+62) /* Wrinting a Faggit program */
22:17:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50753&oldid=50752 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+82) /* Writing your awful unoptimized Faggit interpretor */
22:18:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50754&oldid=50753 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+6) /* Conclusion */
22:18:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50755&oldid=50754 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+6) /* Conclusion */
22:23:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50756&oldid=50549 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+66) /* General languages */
22:25:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Faggit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50757&oldid=50755 * Illuminati Confirmed * (+0) /* Faggit and the Illuminaties */
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22:52:06 <HackEgo> olist 1063: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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23:02:33 <boily> Gregor: WHARGRHGHAHAHAHARGHGHGHGLARHGHGLLGLGLGLGLBLFLFLFLBLBLBLBLBL!
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23:13:21 <boily> uh, not uh. `wisdom.
23:13:33 <HackEgo> eyebrow//Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature.
23:17:53 <Gregor> Literally did nothing.
23:18:51 <boily> a nothing that works is better than nothing.
23:29:38 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-Ye2L3ej8
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00:17:07 <moonythedwarf> 728 bytes per second is a little low, centurylink. >_<
00:17:27 -!- hppavilion1 has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | In optimistic news: Obama commutes Chelsea Manning's sentence | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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01:47:08 <oerjan> @tell FireFly <FireFly> the part I'm wondering is if legally living in Svalbard counts toward getting a permit for living in Norway <-- alas, it does not. http://www.sysselmannen.no/Tilreisende/Innreise-og-opphold/ and http://svalbardposten.no/nyheter/svalbardmeldingen-vil-ha-flere-nordmenn-pa-svalbard/19.7146 make this clear. (the actual law text was confusing though, but i think there it's excluded by
01:47:14 <oerjan> the use of the term "Riket" which doesn't include Svalbard.)
01:47:41 <oerjan> @tell FireFly the use of the term "Riket" which doesn't include Svalbard.)
01:49:31 <oerjan> @tell FireFly as a small consolation, it _can_ count towards getting a mainland permanent living permit, but they're considering making that stricter.
01:50:45 <shachaf> should've checked sysselmannen.yes
01:51:04 <oerjan> well it _is_ in norwegian.
01:52:12 * Zarutian likes the yes.is.no domain and also the.answer.is.no
01:53:50 <oerjan> @tell FireFly hm i'm wrong about the "riket" thing. i guess there's just a special rule somewhere, then.
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01:55:14 <oerjan> shachaf: for an american, it might be easier to get to the mainland than svalbard anyhow - the job market is not easy there
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01:56:50 <shachaf> which american are you talking about here
01:57:18 <oerjan> it's also easier for a finn.
01:58:19 <Jafet> the job market seems rather small, at any rate
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02:04:36 * oerjan engage MTG-skipping minor log-reading mode
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02:06:42 * oerjan engages C++-skipping minor log-reading mode
02:09:26 <shachaf> oerjan: have you considered learning mtg instead twh
02:09:47 <shachaf> it's p. good, better than i expected
02:10:05 <shachaf> also have you considered learning c++ instead twh
02:10:24 <shachaf> it's p. good, better than i expected
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02:14:28 <shachaf> the world's most popular esolang and you're not interested
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02:16:59 <oerjan> the world has poor taste hth
02:18:47 <Jafet> I wonder if the c++-mode can actually parse all of C++ these days
02:19:31 <Jafet> it seemed to get confused by nested template instantiations
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02:35:00 <pecan> I'm going with no. =P
02:35:05 <pecan> http://stackoverflow.com/a/14589567/470535 ← good luck parsing that.
02:35:16 <HackEgo> pecan: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.)
02:35:25 <shachaf> not clicking your referral link, though tdnh
02:38:59 <shachaf> Yes, you get StackOverflow points for people clicking that thing.
02:39:14 <shachaf> http://stackoverflow.com/a/14589567 would be the non-referral vrsion.
02:40:21 <shachaf> It also gives away your user.
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04:15:49 <pecan> Oh, thanks. My bad.
04:16:07 <pecan> that's a bit annoying of them.
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11:43:46 <HackEgo> `revert//`revert is a bit buggy. The canary.orig error message is annoying but seemingly harmless. However, reverting a newly created file tends not to work - use `rm instead.
11:46:31 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
11:46:55 <fungot> int-e: i can probably find the most basic form, only f(x-1) would be horribly slow
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12:20:30 <izabera> https://github.com/antonmks/Alenka
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17:13:24 <\oren\_> realizing i made some horrible decisions in software design 4 months ago
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17:51:02 <\oren\_> should have used an array, not a bitfield
17:51:09 <\oren\_> because now there are going to be 80 possiblities
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18:01:15 <FreeFull> Doesn't sound like it'd be that hard of a change?
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18:03:58 <lambdabot> PAMR 181753Z 00000KT 4SM -SN BR SCT002 M24/M27 A2927 RMK AO2 SLP916 P0000 60000 T12441267 11206 21256 56005 $
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19:44:21 <fizzie> shachaf: It is quite scow. Bazel supports android_binary and android_library rules, but the android_test and android_robolectric_test have not been sourced open. So you can write code, but you can't test it.
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19:56:03 <shachaf> fizzie: just use android_binary for your tests hth
19:57:31 <\oren\_> I am currently stuck waiting four hours for tests to complete before check in
19:58:15 <\oren\_> hopefully will be finished by 7 PM
19:59:04 <shachaf> you should get a data center to run your tests in hth
19:59:31 <\oren\_> i'm certainly not running them on this macbook
19:59:40 <shachaf> You're parallelizing them across many machines?
20:00:15 <shachaf> Your company should seriously consider the significant human cost of having employees waiting that long for tests to finish all the time.
20:00:18 <\oren\_> but the computer is somewhere in america i think
20:00:26 <shachaf> Assuming this is at work, which I guess I assumed.
20:01:03 <\oren\_> well, i dunno, they don't seem to have considered the cost/benefit of using macbook pros as thin clients
20:02:06 <\oren\_> I could just as well use a dell inspiron for this
20:03:36 <\oren\_> what sort of workstations do other companies use
20:07:58 <\oren\_> oh wait you both work for google. they probably don't even blink at giving every coder a alienware glowy box made of solid gold
20:09:36 <\oren\_> or mayble that's just reputation
20:10:00 <olsner> what I heard is not quite as ridiculous, merely top-of-the-line HP workstations with dual reasonable CPUs
20:11:19 <shachaf> I don't, but I did in the past.
20:12:19 <shachaf> Anyway, the computers people get are mostly irrelevant for running tests, because that all happens in some data center somewhere.
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20:14:13 <olsner> I've heard great things about google's compile cluster.. must be how they can bear working on chromium :)
20:14:27 <\oren\_> shachaf: that's my point. why am I using a expensive macbook to just run vlc and ssh?
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20:15:11 <\oren\_> i guess it's some sort of misguided perk?
20:15:33 <shachaf> Lots of web browser windows?
20:16:12 <\oren\_> I guess, sometimes. most documentation is in the repository anyway
20:16:34 <\oren\_> so I read it with midnight commander
20:17:14 <olsner> do you have some kind of thing where you're not allowed to have any code on the laptops themselves?
20:17:35 <\oren\_> oh, some people do that. not many in my office though
20:18:04 <\oren\_> it's far easier to set stuff up on the linux
20:18:44 <\oren\_> instead of having to $ brew X Y Z a bunch
20:19:01 <shachaf> What build system do y'all use to build things?
20:19:26 <\oren\_> makefiles and some propietary stuff based on the CTO's pet language
20:20:03 <\oren\_> which is public domain, it's called "Salmon"
20:20:15 <\oren\_> er, not CTO... I forget his title
20:20:23 <shachaf> "Imperitive Language , Object-Oriented, Functional Programming, strongly typed..."
20:22:22 <\oren\_> it works well enough to be a viable language if C++ didn't already exits
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20:24:45 <HackEgo> 1249) <olsner> I've heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something
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20:26:17 <HackEgo> 1249) <olsner> I've heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something
20:26:31 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 5) <Quas_NaArt> His body sho
20:26:54 <HackEgo> 116) (in #irp) <Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteric? <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ 704) <oklofok> you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? <oklofok> isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES \ 1148
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20:27:37 <HackEgo> 1/2154:1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 5) <Quas_NaArt
20:27:41 <HackEgo> 2/2154:> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ 7) <SimonRC> TODO: sex life \ 8) <Madelon> Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 9) <reddit user "othermatt"> So what you're saying is t
20:28:31 <HackEgo> 1/10:116) (in #irp) <Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteric? <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ 704) <oklofok> you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? <oklofok> isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF
20:28:37 <HackEgo> 2/10: SNAKES \ 1148) <mauke> C++ is a superset of a subset of C \ 1163) <zzo38> C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. <zzo38> Although C does have some good features too. Unfortunately I cannot find a BLISS compiler. \ 1185) <kmc> i came back here and misread my own statement as "fancy C++ mushrooms" \ 116) (in #irp) <Sgeo>
20:28:43 <HackEgo> 3/10:Flonk, ask on #esoteric? <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ 704) <oklofok> you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? <oklofok> isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES \ 1148) <mauke
20:28:47 <HackEgo> 4/10:> C++ is a superset of a subset of C \ 1163) <zzo38> C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. <zzo38> Although C does have some good features too. Unfortunately I cannot find a BLISS compiler. \ 1185) <kmc> i came back here and misread my own statement as "fancy C++ mushrooms" \ 116) (in #irp) <Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteri
20:29:06 <HackEgo> 5/10:c? <Flonk> Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ 704) <oklofok> you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? <oklofok> isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES \ 1148) <mauke> C++ is a superset of
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20:48:50 <olsner> polterchrist in that quote is short for "host" btw
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20:56:53 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "print "12,45" + 1": No such file or directory
20:57:04 <\oren\_> `` perl -e 'print "12,45" + 1;'
20:57:49 <\oren\_> `` perl -e 'print "AAA" == 0;'
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23:06:46 <HackEgo> nortti//nortti is a very nortti boy. He yielded to shikhin's promises, and now is his High Priest.
23:10:59 <shachaf> I saw nortti's name in some tensorflow BUILD files the other day.
23:11:07 <shachaf> Turned out they were disabling RTTI.
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23:15:45 <boily> hellochaf, hellosner, mhelloony.
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23:39:26 <moonheart08> centurylink (aka centuryshit that doesnt give us what we pay for and is our only provider option) why )
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23:50:28 <HackEgo> `revert is a bit buggy. The canary.orig error message is annoying but seemingly harmless. However, reverting a newly created file tends not to work - use `rm instead.
23:50:40 <shachaf> time to revert that wisdom
23:50:43 <oerjan> `learn `revert now works fine. Yay fizzie!
23:50:48 <HackEgo> Relearned '`revert': `revert now works fine. Yay fizzie!
23:50:55 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
23:51:07 <lambdabot> dropFromEnd n xs = zipWith const xs (drop n xs)
23:51:15 <shachaf> is fizzie the author of that
23:51:31 <oerjan> i doubt it, but who knows who was
23:51:39 <oerjan> it's a pretty old trick i think
23:51:42 <lambdabot> lazyReverse xs = go xs (reverse xs) where go (_:xs) ~(y:ys) = y : go xs ys; go [] ~[] = []
23:52:06 <HackEgo> 0:2012-02-16 Initïal import. \ 3083:2013-06-11 <ellioẗt> learn fizzie is the creator of Minecraft. \ 4032:2013-11-20 <fizzïe> learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad. \ 4246:2013-12-30 <oerjän> learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg \ 4249:201
23:53:09 <HackEgo> 8869:2016-07-28 <shachäf> slwd fizzie//s#http.*#https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg# \ 8168:2016-05-25 <shachäf> ` sed -i \'s/k/sneaky k/\' wisdom/fizzie \ 4999:2014-10-02 <oerjän> revert 4969 \ 4984:2014-09-30 <mroman̈_> learn_append fizzie Fizzie is a bot controlled by fungot. \ 4249:2013-12-30 <oerjän> learn fizzie i
23:53:22 <oerjan> shachaf: hah, thought it was you
23:53:31 <shachaf> But I don't remember the reason.
23:55:36 <oerjan> . o O ( did that `revert wisdom get displayed between being added and the fix being in... )
23:56:55 <fizzie> I don't think I'm sneaky.
23:57:09 <shachaf> Why does ?fizzie have one URL when I apparently updated it to another URL?
23:57:11 <oerjan> well that's just the kind of thing a sneaky person would say.
23:57:40 <shachaf> It's also the sort of thing a non-sneaky person would say.
23:57:55 <shachaf> Saying things that convey no information? Very sneaky.
23:58:15 <oerjan> shachaf: it doesn't, you're just misreading
23:58:46 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
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00:00:42 <HackEgo> bigcake: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:00:45 <boily> shikhin: shellokhin.
00:00:46 <oerjan> hm there's some annoying alarm set to 1:00 am
00:00:52 <oerjan> fortunately it doesn't last long
00:00:55 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Thu Jan 19 01:00:50 2017
00:01:04 <oerjan> i guess it's not that annoying then
00:01:40 <\oren\> rrgh the tests still aren't done
00:01:55 <shachaf> \oren\: have you considered running them on more than one computer hth
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00:02:45 <bigcake> its me hagb4rd. i accidentetly avoided my ban. so i will leave you now. hope you are all fine and healthy?
00:03:10 <\oren\> shachaf: I think a big performance imporvement would be made by not recompiling the same thing 1000 times
00:03:10 <oerjan> now the guy using the stereo with full base at 1:00 am, on the other hand
00:03:43 -!- bigcake has left.
00:03:55 <shachaf> Wait, I thought you were running the tests, not compiling.
00:04:04 <shachaf> Unless you're testing the compiler?
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00:04:17 <boily> why was he banned again for?
00:04:23 <\oren\> shachaf: running the test means compiling the whole thing and testing it
00:04:35 <shachaf> You said running the tests takes four hours.
00:04:43 <shachaf> It's been several hours and it's still not done compiling?
00:04:48 <boily> hellørjan, ffizziello, he\\oren\.
00:04:52 <\oren\> that includes about 3 hours of compilation
00:05:36 <\oren\> well and autogenerated template templates
00:05:48 <shachaf> this problem is solvable hth
00:06:04 <shachaf> And if it takes up four hours of your time on every commit, then it ought to be your highest priority.
00:06:31 <\oren\> well but it's built on a language that virtuall 0 people know
00:06:42 <\oren\> the build sytem that is
00:06:50 <\oren\> well 1 person knows it
00:07:04 <olsner> was that the thing built in Salmon?
00:07:05 <\oren\> but he doesn't count since he invented it
00:08:30 <shachaf> fizzie: https://bazel.build/roadmap.html says a version that supports testing Android apps will be released this month.
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00:25:18 <fizzie> shachaf: I think they haven't updated the roadmap.
00:25:45 <fizzie> shachaf: Because https://github.com/bazelbuild/bazel/issues/2080 says the milestone for that is now 0.6.
00:26:31 <fizzie> shachaf: (And https://github.com/bazelbuild/bazel/issues/903 as well for the android_test side of things.)
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00:35:27 <oerjan> fizzie: wiki bridge is down
00:39:05 <fizzie> $ uptime 00:38:57 up 1 day, 1:27, 0 users, load average: 0.47, 0.21, 0.13
00:39:16 <shachaf> fizzie: Do you think Python is a good language for the sort of information that's typically contained in BUILD files?
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00:40:26 <fizzie> shachaf: I don't really know. I guess it's not actually Python.
00:41:26 <shachaf> Does it go through the Python interpreter in the end? I don't know.
00:41:31 <shachaf> I saw that Bazel has a parser for it, at least.
00:42:17 <shachaf> fizzie: do you think python is a good language for [redacted musical instrument]
00:42:54 <fizzie> I'm not sure whether it goes through a Python interpreter. I think it's at least defined as a subset of Python syntactically.
00:43:14 <shachaf> Syntactically but not in other ways.
00:43:42 <fizzie> Something something Skylark migration something.
00:44:13 <shachaf> Why does Bazel have any built-in rules?
00:44:34 <shachaf> Or, rather, are the built-in rules necessary?
00:45:15 <fizzie> "unsupported class file version 52.0"
00:45:36 <fizzie> I tried to put an @AutoValue class into a java_library included in an android_binary's deps.
00:45:46 <fizzie> Now I'm getting that from dexing.
00:47:10 <fizzie> I only know about Skylark's macro functionalities, I don't know if the actual rule definition facilities would be good enough to not have any built-in rules at all.
00:47:17 <fizzie> Maybe there's some magic involved.
00:48:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ehird * deleted "[[Faggit]]": have to draw a line here. this is only slightly more coherent than Esme, and much less bizarre. it isn't really a language, just an excuse to string a bunch of memes and slurs together. I was on the fence before it ended by calling the reader one too.
00:48:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50770&oldid=50756 * Ehird * (-66) rm deleted page
00:49:12 <shachaf> A Skylark rule is much fancier than just some genrules.
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00:55:05 <fizzie> Ooh, --experimental_android_use_jack_for_dexing.
00:55:11 <fizzie> Sadly, it doesn't work.
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00:56:25 <fizzie> (It also doesn't say what went wrong.)
00:59:49 <fizzie> Oh. It's using a command called "fail.sh" to try to do the thing.
01:01:23 <fizzie> https://github.com/bazelbuild/bazel/blob/master/tools/android/android_sdk_repository_template.bzl#L82 well, that doesn't look very promising.
01:03:02 <shachaf> # Copyright 2016 The Bazel Authors. All rights reserved.
01:03:14 <shachaf> This fail.sh thing is pretty complicated.
01:03:23 <shachaf> I'm surprised they released it publicly.
01:05:21 <fizzie> https://github.com/bazelbuild/bazel/issues/1391 seems to be the issue.
01:06:07 <fizzie> I might be a bit too early in actually trying to use any of this stuff.
01:08:07 <shachaf> fizzie: just get your code right so you don't need tests hth
01:10:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniBitMove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50771&oldid=50764 * Dpleshkov * (+17)
01:18:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tick]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50772 * Dpleshkov * (+1327) Created page with "<h3>Description</h3> Tick is a esolang created in 2017. It has only 4 commands and an infinite memory tape. It is made to also ignore non-command characters. <h3>Commands</h3>..."
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01:18:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50773&oldid=50745 * Dpleshkov * (+11) /* T */
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01:52:46 <HackEgo> speedy gonzales//Sp e e d y G o n z a l e s i s t h e f a s t e s t
01:53:05 <HackEgo> hand//A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
01:54:44 <boily> apparently I didn't write the hand...
01:54:49 <HackEgo> roujo's relevant info//That information is stored in an unnamed metal cabinet in one of the top floors of an obscure administrative building with a number that you probably never heard of.
01:56:08 <HackEgo> inventory//An inventory is a collection of inventions.
01:56:31 <HackEgo> bin/learn \ bin/learn_append \ bin/learn_append2
01:56:41 <boily> `learn_append inventory//Taneb has them.
01:56:43 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/inventory//taneb: Not a directory. \ /hackenv/bin/learn_append: line 5: wisdom/inventory//taneb: Not a directory \ Learned 'inventory//taneb': cat: wisdom/inventory//taneb: Not a directory
01:57:31 <boily> `learn inventory//An inventory is a collection of inventions. Taneb has them.
01:57:33 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/inventory//an: Not a directory \ Learned 'inventory//an': inventory//An inventory is a collection of inventions. Taneb has them.
01:57:50 <oerjan> boily: the hand wrote you hth
01:57:59 <boily> `le/rn inventory//An inventory is a collection of inventions. Taneb has them.
01:58:03 <HackEgo> Relearned 'inventory': An inventory is a collection of inventions. Taneb has them.
01:58:22 <boily> bon, m'as tu finir par l'avoir le torieux de patente à gosse de marche tout croche de *mumble mumble*
02:00:16 <HackEgo> the//the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
02:00:42 <oerjan> boily: neither of your `reverts did what you thought they did, although fortunately they _did_ cancel each other
02:01:05 <oerjan> basically, don't use `revert unless you're sure a command actually _changed_ something.
02:01:30 <oerjan> well, two of them. the last one was fine.
02:02:30 <boily> reverting is a complicated business, all with the dead canary...
02:04:27 <HackEgo> `revert now works fine. Yay fizzie!
02:04:55 <oerjan> which was, ironically, what your `reverts _did_ change.
02:06:51 * boily stays clear from things that appear to work, but work...
02:12:20 <boily> \oren\: you fonted 鼠 ^^
02:20:20 <boily> quinthellopia! yup!
02:21:10 <quintopia> you missed out on us figuring out how to dupe weapons
02:22:13 <boily> there's a weapon dup glitch?
02:32:23 <oerjan> * \oren\_ forgot what `5 did <-- you probably wanted `2 hth
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02:36:07 <oerjan> looks like HackEgo may be about to ping about
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02:36:28 <oerjan> or rather, its irc server is
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02:37:54 <oerjan> aka moon.freenode.net, which all the people joining were on
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02:40:16 <oerjan> i suppose HackEgo would reconnect too, except its original nick hasn't pinged out globally
02:41:25 <oerjan> fizzie: does HackEgo have any alternate nick? i don't recall one
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02:46:25 <oerjan> `learn `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
02:46:28 <HackEgo> Learned '`1': `1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
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02:47:27 <oerjan> `learn `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
02:47:31 <HackEgo> Learned '`2': `2 <cmd> is equivalent to `1 <cmd>, except that it starts displaying the _second_ output piece. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `1.
02:47:44 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't think multibot supports a nick fallback.
02:47:56 <shachaf> oerjan: It would be good if `2 used the right line length for ``
02:48:41 <oerjan> that may be hard to predict though.
02:49:01 <oerjan> since the cutoff for `` is done by HackEgo's internal algorithm.
02:49:27 <oerjan> also, it should never start _later_ than where the original line ended, i think.
02:49:53 <oerjan> well probably. there's some utf-8 issues.
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02:52:29 <oerjan> `learn `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
02:52:32 <HackEgo> Learned '`5': `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
02:52:56 <shachaf> `5 has an important default hth
02:53:10 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do \` "$cmd"; done | sport
02:53:46 <oerjan> `learn `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
02:53:51 <HackEgo> Relearned '`5': `5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
02:55:17 <oerjan> hm that's a bit more dubious, since it's _not_ meant to be used first on the line
02:59:34 <oerjan> `learn `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous 1, 2 or sport command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
02:59:38 <HackEgo> Learned '`spam': `spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous 1, 2 or sport command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
03:00:04 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
03:01:36 <oerjan> `slwd `spam//s; or sport;, sport or spore;
03:01:47 <HackEgo> `spam//`spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous 1, 2, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
03:02:28 <HackEgo> cat "${1:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${2-1}"
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03:03:17 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
03:05:22 <oerjan> `learn spore <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
03:05:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'spore': spore <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
03:06:52 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/spor{e,t}
03:07:27 <shachaf> Now you still have to change the first word.
03:07:30 <oerjan> `learn spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport.
03:07:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'spore': spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport.
03:07:44 <HackEgo> sport//sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
03:08:05 <shachaf> Why does spore/sport take an argument?
03:08:14 <shachaf> Why not spor{e,t} then spam?
03:08:22 <oerjan> for easy in writing 1 and 2
03:08:46 <oerjan> besides, they do spam internally
03:10:15 <oerjan> spore works like more, so it displays a line.
03:12:48 <oerjan> `slwd spore,$, See also `spam.,
03:13:00 <oerjan> `slwd spore//s,$, See also `spam.,
03:13:03 <HackEgo> spore//spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
03:14:26 <oerjan> `slwd `spam//s;2;2, 5;
03:14:29 <HackEgo> `spam//`spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous 1, 2, 5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
03:15:24 <oerjan> `slwd `spam//s,\d,`&,g
03:15:28 <HackEgo> `spam//`spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous 1, 2, 5, sport or spore comman`d. n `defaults to the next piece to `display. Abbreviation: `n.
03:15:50 <oerjan> `slwd `spam//s,[125],`&,g
03:15:52 <HackEgo> `spam//`spam <n> prints the nth output piece of the previous `1, `2, `5, sport or spore command. n defaults to the next piece to display. Abbreviation: `n.
03:18:12 <HackEgo> bin/help: ERROR: cannot open `bin/help' (No such file or directory)
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03:21:37 * oerjan swats shachaf for being a nortti punster -----###
03:22:28 <oerjan> and with that my logreading is up to date
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03:38:06 <shachaf> https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=nortti
03:46:59 <oerjan> it's your pun unless it was actually nortti who added that hth
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04:35:45 <^v> connecting my phone as a audio source isnt working anymore after my last apt-get upgrade
04:40:42 <^v> wrong channel lmao
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05:19:36 <HackEgo> 1/2:149) [spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. \ 933) <oklopol> my university spam filter thinks it's okay for someone i have never met to discuss "usd 2,142,728.00 dollars" with me and "NEED MY HELP" etc. however, inviting me to a confe
05:19:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:rence? such a nigerian thing to do. \ 1034) <oerjan> this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam. \ 1273) <coppro> `quote <coppro> `quote <coppro> `quote <coppro> `quote <int-e> ....lovely spam, oh wonderful spam...
05:21:07 <\oren\> by that token does that mean door to door salesmen are human spam?
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06:11:17 <oerjan> \oren\: i don't get door to door salesmen
06:15:42 <oerjan> of course, no one gets into the upper floors of this apartment building without someone letting them in.
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06:56:34 <oerjan> looks like the CaC server went down
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07:18:21 <oerjan> `8ball Did that kill your wiki link again?
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07:18:55 <oerjan> mind you, not that anyone has edited.
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10:14:57 <izabera> pacman has the best error messages
10:15:01 <izabera> :: fontconfig-infinality-ultimate: removing freetype2-infinality-ultimate breaks dependency 'freetype2-infinality-ultimate'
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11:33:16 <HackEgo> pun//Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
11:35:05 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/libcthing/blob/master/Makefile why does this recompile test every time i run make test?
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11:46:07 <izabera> i see, it's because i was depending on phony targets
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16:52:14 <b_jonas> ais523: I wanted to tell you that David Madore has posted a question about context-free grammars that you might be able to answer, at http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2017-01-17.2419.html#d.2017-01-17.2419 and http://cs.stackexchange.com/q/68828/5248 , but it's probably solved since.
16:53:14 <ais523> it says on the first link that it's been solved
16:53:25 <ais523> although I'm not sure I want to read enough French to work out what the solution is
16:53:37 <b_jonas> read the second link then?
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19:15:16 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
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20:02:17 <\oren\> hey, what if you designed a floating point representation so that small integers have the same representation as in two-complement integers
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20:03:25 <\oren\> that is, so that an exponent of 0 puts all the mantissa bits to the left of the decimal point
20:04:57 <int-e> one of the cute tricks of IEEE floating point is the normalization (and corresponding omission of the leading 1 of the mantissa); that is incompatible with this idea, I think.
20:05:39 <int-e> in a similar vain, what would 1b0001 look like?
20:06:40 <int-e> (not sure where I found this convention, I'm sure I didn't make it up myself)
20:06:57 <\oren\> it would be 10001, with a exponent of -4?
20:07:48 <int-e> Hmm, that could work.
20:08:45 <lambdabot> PAMR 192004Z 08005KT 1/2SM HZ VCFG OVC002 M24/M27 A2944 RMK AO2 T12391267 $
20:10:02 <int-e> But in any case I think the 1:1 mapping for (small) integers isn't worth making up a new floating point format for (note that two's complement is also quite uncommon), I'd like to see a more convincing benefit.
20:10:37 <\oren\> well, it would mean that you could use the exponent bots as a tag
20:11:32 <int-e> you can use the lowest bits of a floating point number for tags with a limited loss of precision (basically you'd be shortening the mantissa)
20:12:27 <\oren\> that is, there could be an "add" instruction that checks whether its arguments are integers or flaoting point
20:13:40 <\oren\> hppavilion1: that's 200 feet
20:13:57 <lambdabot> LOWI 191950Z VRB02KT CAVOK M11/M12 Q1032 NOSIG
20:14:20 <lambdabot> CYYZ 192000Z 00000KT 10SM OVC016 03/M01 A2998 RMK SC8 SLP161
20:14:52 <\oren\> yeah OVC016 is correct, the uppermost floors of my building are in the cloud
20:15:34 <int-e> CAV="ceiling and visibility"... I forgot.
20:16:26 <\oren\> I don't work in the CN tower
20:16:45 <\oren\> my building isn't 1600 feet tall
20:17:21 <int-e> (cavok indicates absence of fog and clouds in the measured range (there may still be clouds above 5k feet)
20:18:04 <int-e> hmm, do those numbers correspond to the top or the bottom of a cloud layer...
20:18:25 <int-e> (bottom makes more sense, but I just realized that I don't know)
20:19:02 <int-e> okay, it's "base" height.
20:19:59 <\oren\> of course I'm several tens of kilometres from the airport
20:20:15 <int-e> I was going to ask.
20:20:31 <int-e> Here it's a 50 minutes brisk walk :)
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21:02:22 <lambdabot> EGLL 192050Z AUTO 03004KT 7000 NCD 02/M00 Q1036 NOSIG
21:02:48 <fizzie> Not cow temperatures, but a dew cow.
21:07:00 <lambdabot> KOAK 192053Z VRB06KT 10SM SCT050 13/09 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP110 60000 T01330089 58012
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21:25:06 <zzo38> How I would want to define rules of Magic: the Gathering in a logical way these are some of the properties that an object has: owner, kind, initial text. All of these three properties are things that are not continuous effects and that if the object moves from one zone to another or is renewed in the same zone, or enters the game from the outside, retains the same values. There are different rules for what these values are when the object is create
21:26:20 <zzo38> Such as, the kind of an object that existed since the game starts is card. Also, an object's initial text may depend on circumstances (for example, if it is face-down or transformed).
21:26:53 <zzo38> Do you think it is good?
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22:02:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50774&oldid=50633 * Bax3n * (-646) Blanked the page
22:02:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50775&oldid=50773 * Bax3n * (-9)
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23:19:44 <fizzie> shachaf: Double cow would seem to be the obvious thing.
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23:22:19 <Jafet> justified ancient weather
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23:27:36 <boily> what is the fruit equivalent in scowiness to bell peppers?
23:29:12 <ais523> can we consider bell peppers a fruit for the purpose?
23:30:28 <boily> his523. if they are a fruit, then which vegetable?
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23:31:23 <int-e> what's wrong with bell peppers?
23:31:35 <ais523> the question doesn't assume that there's anything wrong with them
23:31:54 <ais523> even if it does kind-of make implications
23:32:21 <int-e> "scowiness" is a negative term, I'd say.
23:32:32 <int-e> though technically you're right
23:33:24 <boily> there's nothing wrong with them, they're delicious!
23:34:46 <int-e> boily: In that case, to the extend that a question can be misleading, I find your question misleading.
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23:43:52 <Jafet> aren't bell peppers technically zero scow?
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23:48:08 <boily> Jafellot. they're usually between 0 and 100 scows.
23:48:20 <olsner> if bell peppers are good and scow is bad, they'd be negative scows
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00:09:54 <oerjan> <int-e> in a similar vain, what would 1b0001 look like? <-- *vein
00:16:11 <boily> according to google, “いいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい” means “It's nice to hear that”.
00:16:51 <boily> but “かかかかかか” is “Make a call”.
00:19:10 <boily> bonsœirjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
00:19:30 <boily> (“わわわわわわわわわわわわ” is “It is not incomprehensible” :D)
00:20:44 <HackEgo> potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
00:30:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50776&oldid=31439 * Camto * (-3)
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00:37:43 <oerjan> boily: because of diseases, i assume. remember the irish potato famine...
00:57:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Д]]": Author request: Blanked by author, and site disappeared, so considering this a deletion request
01:03:52 <oerjan> *sigh* did google do a ridiculous search result redesign again
01:06:01 <boily> deviantart redesigned their galleries. they aren't aligned with my chakras. this distrubs my chi.
01:06:55 <oerjan> it's not responsive, and afaict has smaller text size
01:07:06 <zzo38> Can you fix them with Stylish or GreaseMonkey or other browser extensions?
01:07:16 <boily> afaict? As Far As I Cuddle Tacos?
01:07:20 <shachaf> oerjan: they do a lot of experiments hth
01:07:21 <oerjan> boily: i guess this _is_ officially the day when everything in the world becomes at least a bit worse
01:08:22 <oerjan> or well, tomorrow for some of you.
01:08:25 <boily> everything is a bit more the way they have will ever been...
01:10:05 <HackEgo> iiuc i understand iiuc correctly.
01:10:24 <oerjan> `learn afaict afaict is almost synonymous with iiuc.
01:10:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'afaict': afaict afaict is almost synonymous with iiuc.
01:11:09 <boily> As Far As I Comprehend Tacitly. makes perfect sense now!
01:12:51 <oerjan> oh well, hang on and floss your chakras regularly
01:13:30 <boily> fungot: do you floss your nostrils?
01:13:31 <fungot> boily: except for syntax errors are somewhat unhelpful /ignore is over there now.
01:14:10 <zzo38> I wrote a implementation of X resource manager in JavaScript and now I should need to test.
01:14:12 <oerjan> and use some drops for the third eye one.
01:16:42 <boily> hezzo38. you can do X stuff from javascript?
01:16:50 <oerjan> <boily> his523. if they are a fruit, then which vegetable? <-- arugula hth
01:17:11 <zzo38> The difference of Xlib is that my implementation does not store representation types; instead, the values in the resource database may be any JavaScript value except for undefined. Unique quarks are possible; just use Symbol() to create one.
01:17:22 <oerjan> seriously, what's the point of that
01:18:17 <zzo38> boily: JavaScript core doesn't but with a I/O layer you can. It is just a socket connection to connect to the X server, so with a suitable I/O layer (such as that provided by Node.js) it can be done. Possibly even the I/O layer provided by HTML can do so as well, but I am unsure.
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01:21:53 <zzo38> The X resource manager module though does not use I/O and does not require a connection to the X server.
01:23:23 <zzo38> So, it is not even necessary to "do X stuff" in order to implement the X resource manager (although without the connection to the X server, it may not be as useful).
01:23:45 <boily> oerjan: arugula is quite good! with dried cranberries and sliced almonds, a fluff of freshly grated Parmesan, a crunch of peppercorns, and a mist of olive oil.
01:27:07 <oerjan> and if you do that minus the arugula?
01:27:57 <boily> then you'll be left with an unleafy mess. I'll accept spinach as a subsitute.
01:28:58 <oerjan> but it's the leaves that make the mess - i can never find out how to get them onto the fork properly.
01:30:03 * boily gesticulates the way you multi-stab a leaf with a fork
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01:52:05 <fizzie> oerjan: FWIW, I'm getting what I think you were talking about too.
01:52:24 <fizzie> (Also was quite surprised.)
01:52:32 <oerjan> wait, what do you think i was talking about
01:52:49 <fizzie> A different-looking Google.
01:53:10 <fizzie> It looks very mobile-oriented.
01:53:41 <fizzie> It doesn't happen on my other browser, though.
01:54:24 * oerjan hopes it's just a bug, then
01:54:25 <fizzie> Or in an incognito window in the first one either.
01:54:34 <fizzie> I presume it's an experiment.
01:55:07 <fizzie> You should act in such a way that the people running it will be able to tell you hate it.
01:55:38 <fizzie> So I guess whatever you do, don't click on an ad.
01:55:46 <fizzie> Also probably don't click on any results either.
01:56:04 <oerjan> maybe too late for that.
01:56:19 <fizzie> Same here. I would have, but I really wanted those results too.
01:56:45 <oerjan> i'm not sure whether i clicked or not
01:57:26 <zzo38> The example in the Xlib documentation passes. I should need further testing please.
02:23:23 <ais523> surely what you should do is click repeatedly on blank parts of the page, then refresh it a few times
02:23:32 <ais523> thus giving the impression that you don't understand it at all
02:26:55 <shachaf> Sometimes you get a popup with those little smile icons.
02:28:23 <lambdabot> ENVA 200150Z 06003KT 1200 R09/P2000N R27/P2000N -SN VV006 00/M00 Q1018 RMK WIND 670FT 18006KT
02:32:29 <ais523> when I'm using a non-locked-down browser (i.e. not my primary one), and a site shows a style of advert that I particularly dislke
02:32:34 <ais523> my normal reaction is to immediately refresh
02:32:43 <ais523> it actually seems to do some amount of good
02:32:57 <ais523> (in discouraging the site from using them)
02:33:10 <shachaf> unless people measure page views twnh
02:35:22 <oerjan> `learn Moo is the sound made by a cow as it freezes.
02:35:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'moo': Moo is the sound made by a cow as it freezes.
02:37:38 <lambdabot> CYUL 200200Z 27006KT 15SM FEW010 OVC030 01/M00 A3006 RMK SF1SC8 SF TR SLP181
02:37:58 <boily> my weather is almoost the same.
02:38:47 <lambdabot> EGBB 200220Z 00000KT 9999 R15/0600 MIFG NSC 02/02 Q1035
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02:55:55 <lambdabot> EGLL 200250Z AUTO VRB02KT 8000 NCD M01/M02 Q1035
02:56:03 <fizzie> The dreaded negatives.
03:04:22 <zzo38> I have found some test cases in the xcb-util-xrm library. What I have found is that line 84 and 85 of tests_parser.c do not match the behaviour of Xlib; my own implementation implements the behaviour of Xlib in those cases.
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03:06:11 <zzo38> My program passes all of the other tests from tests_parser.c though. Now I will try the other file
03:17:08 <zzo38> My program passes all of the tests in tests_match.c too.
03:18:09 <zzo38> And, this is an implementation in only 53 lines of code (the first of which is "use strict").
03:57:16 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/COTK You can tell me if there are any further mistakes that the tests have not caught.
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05:57:01 <zzo38> What kind of file format may be in use for key/value databases where the key and value are each arbitrary byte strings (and no duplicate keys)?
05:59:42 <zzo38> (This is same as SQLite4 storage requirements except for the transaction requirement.)
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06:10:19 <zzo38> Possibly a similar file format to what SQLite4 uses by default is possible, or maybe something a bit like SQLite3. But, I will look to see
06:14:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50777&oldid=50724 * Challenger5 * (-61)
06:37:58 <zzo38> It seem that xcb-util-xrm does not even support quarks. My implementation in JavaScript supports "unique quarks" without having to do anything special, due to how JavaScript is working. The xcb-util-xrm also implemented the matching rules in an entirely different way from how I did.
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09:54:18 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gsHOwU1RU
10:57:12 <zzo38> I found a mmap binding for Node.js and trying to use it on an empty file results in a segmentation fault. Is it supposed to do that?
10:57:48 <zzo38> (It works if the file is not empty.)
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11:40:28 <HackEgo> indexed monad//Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.
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16:59:12 <\oren\> right now, pence is the vice president and obama is the president
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17:28:49 <\oren\> trump is now the president
17:33:53 <Taneb> I have two weeks to learn ColdFusion
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17:40:03 <Taneb> (starting a part time job)
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17:59:27 <Muchotreeo> hey how do i create a bot that can understand befunge?
18:03:57 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have any tips? You should be the expert on this.
18:03:57 <fungot> fizzie: i've not seen edwin users: is there an tutorial for running a 64-bit os without support for your back. no real treatment, and they just use rationals numbers
18:04:43 <fizzie> I don't think that was very helpful.
18:05:25 <int-e> fungot: Could you stop being less incoherent than some of our regulars, please?
18:05:26 <fungot> int-e: my professor will mark me down if i used that *all* the time.
18:05:59 <int-e> fungot: maybe you should switch to dvorak.
18:06:00 <fungot> int-e: now waiting... :) is it possible to download things from microsoft such that windows is 2/ 5 better than linux.
18:10:43 <fizzie> It's a dimensionless quantity.
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18:21:45 <int-e> well they do have that "linux subsystem" thingy.
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19:20:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50778&oldid=50734 * Luis Mendo * (+30) /* Language specification and compiler */
19:21:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50779&oldid=50778 * Luis Mendo * (-1) /* Language specification and compiler */
19:21:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50780&oldid=50779 * Luis Mendo * (+0) /* Language specification and compiler */
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19:30:00 <zzo38> Is there the program that can be use to execute a ARB assembly shader and then to write the output to the file?
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22:37:34 <wob_jonas> Can someone help me? I have an interlaced video, and want to tell ffmpeg to throw away half of the frames, keeping only the even numbered frames with half the vertical resolution.
22:38:08 <wob_jonas> But this seems impossible to search for, because an internet search only finds hits about how to re-encode interlaced videos but NOT throw away information from it.
22:38:38 <wob_jonas> That's the more typical use case, because most of the interlaced videos are low resolution, digitized from analog television or VHS, so it makes sense,
22:39:10 <wob_jonas> but my use case is a high resolution interlaced video straight from digital camera, but with lots of motion, that I want to encode in lower quality, so throwing away the odd frames would be better.
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22:43:46 <wob_jonas> ah: http://video.stackexchange.com/q/9312
22:46:40 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: in analog television, you get odd and even fields not frames, but otherwise what you describe is correct
22:47:08 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: and I though all digital cameras were progressive scan these days
22:47:33 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: this digital camera can do both progressive and interlaced.
22:47:47 <wob_jonas> the interlaced gives smaller videos of course
22:48:05 <wob_jonas> I should not have recorded this particular video interlaced, but it's too late to change that
22:49:39 <Zarutian> you know that by throwing out the odd fields you are only halving the vertical resolution.
22:50:19 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: yes, I know I'm halving only the vertical resolution. Though of course I'm then free to rescale the result to smaller if I want to.
23:04:17 <Zarutian> yeah, but it is fun to watch such unscaled video at least once. ;-Þ
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23:23:20 <Muchotreeo> hey are any time traveling bots in this community
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23:25:13 <zzo38> I know no time traveling bots in this community. Even if I did, I wouldn't know anyways.
23:27:36 <Muchotreeo> I wanna create a bot that uses natural language proccesing to read the wiki then create esolangs based around that but my know how is to small to do thatn
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23:42:57 <zzo38> How would Checkout be implemented on a GPU?
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06:41:03 <HackEgo> [U+8203 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8203]
06:41:30 <HackEgo> [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE]
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07:45:45 <^v> im still not convinced this is C++ and not some esolang template<class T,class...A>T*c(A...a){return [=]()->T*{return new T(a...);};}
07:46:17 <myname> you are talking like c+| is not an esolang
07:53:51 <Jafet> [=](){[&](){}();}();
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08:09:35 <^v> template<class T,class...A>std::function<T*()>c(A...a){return [=]()->T*{return new T(std::forward<A>(a)...);};}
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10:18:11 <HackEgo> [U+202E RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE]
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12:00:21 <rdococ> did someone say CONCORDE CHICKEN?
12:02:12 <ybden> SUPERSONIC CHICKEN
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12:29:18 <int-e> (mutilated, and shred to pieces, more likely, but that would be too gross)
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14:18:13 <fizzie> WordNet is being nicely cyclic here:
14:18:17 <fizzie> 1. (2) broil, oven broil -- (cook under a broiler; "broil fish")
14:18:24 <fizzie> 1. (1) broiler -- (an oven or part of a stove used for broiling)
14:19:02 <fizzie> Broiling is something you do with a broiler; a broiler is something you use for broiling.
14:20:13 <fizzie> (All this charred chicken talk made me wonder what the difference between broiling and grilling is.)
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14:31:35 <Jafet> to begin with, there are broiler chickens, but no griller chickens
14:35:16 <myname> fun fact: in berlin, broiler is also a dish
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00:50:17 <HackEgo> tea//Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean.
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01:04:21 <fizzie> Is Eclipse really still the "leading Java IDE"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_for_static_code_analysis#Java says so.
01:05:02 <fizzie> I guess Google could've answered that for me. https://zeroturnaround.com/rebellabs/java-tools-and-technologies-landscape-2016/ reportrs 46% IntelliJ, 41% Eclipse, 10% NetBeans and 3% Other.
01:06:00 <boily> I like Eclipse. very powerful!
01:06:11 <boily> IntelliJ is hipsterer, but its interface confuses me...
01:07:37 <DHeadshot> How easy would it be to learn the Java Bytecode and write it by hand?
01:09:14 <boily> fizziello, DHellodshot.
01:09:23 <boily> probably about the same as writing assembly?
01:10:19 <shachaf> I expect easier, given how well Java decompilers wok.
01:11:08 <sdhand> I would have said I expected harder, purely because java bytecode doesn't have mnemonics
01:11:24 <sdhand> I guess it would be fairly trivial to write some kind of "bytecode assembler" however
01:12:13 <DHeadshot> Is the bytecode documented somewhere?
01:12:36 <sdhand> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_bytecode_instruction_listings
01:14:11 <DHeadshot> (I don't even really know what sort of architecture and processor model the JVM uses...)
01:22:38 <fizzie> The spec has a resonably okay instruction listing as well, https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se8/html/index.html
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01:26:00 <fizzie> I think I entertained the thought of compiling something else stack-based (Befunge? Forth?) to JVM bytecode and reusing the "native" stack for that language's stack, but it turned out the JVM bytecode verifier is super-picky about the stack.
01:27:00 <alercah> is there a crm meetup on the 12th of february?
01:28:45 <fizzie> (In particular, it wants to know the stack depths statically at all times, and if you have control flow, the stack depth at point X must be the same for every way you can reach X.)
01:31:00 <boily> albonsoircah. let me check...
01:31:44 <boily> yes, there is one.
01:35:37 <alercah> please communicate to me details
01:35:47 <alercah> through your preferred method
01:36:43 * oerjan gets an urge to do some canadian stalking
01:36:46 <boily> we usually get briefed on the location either Tuesday or Wednesday, same week as the meet. I will spam you with the details then.
01:38:08 * oerjan pointedly copies and pastes the result link from google instead of clicking it
01:38:09 <zzo38> I think that a Java assembler does exist.
01:38:19 <zzo38> So, you can write it in Java assembly language if you want to
01:38:49 <oerjan> is it this thing http://www.crm.umontreal.ca/en/
01:41:10 <boily> no, it's partly https://riichimontreal.org/ and http://riichi.ca/site/
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01:49:20 <HackEgo> ant//Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways.
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01:50:03 <oerjan> is there a reference in that wisdom
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01:51:34 <boily> oerjan: it confuses me...
01:51:42 <DHeadshot> zzo38: Wikipedia suggests something called "Lilac"
01:52:06 <boily> int-e: int-ello. ants???
01:52:22 * oerjan goes to check for german puns
01:55:54 <oerjan> <fizzie> Broiling is something you do with a broiler; a broiler is something you use for broiling. <-- you'd think a proper dictionary would have some kind of "use only these words for definitions" rule...
01:56:44 <oerjan> so that everything bottomed out at the 1000 most common words or something.
01:59:39 <boily> broiling is like boiling, but more broily.
02:00:01 <alercah> will broily also be at the mahjong meetup?
02:00:40 <oerjan> `learn broily is like boily, but more broiling.
02:00:45 <HackEgo> Learned 'broily': broily is like boily, but more broiling.
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02:01:35 <boily> alercah: I will. from that I surmise that you will too ^^
02:03:16 <alercah> boily: no I was just asking for fun </sarcasm>
02:04:50 <oerjan> 03:04 fun [~fun@gethostbyname.org]
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02:12:36 <oerjan> @tell boily i assess that chicken to be misspelled
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02:31:55 <zzo38> Wiktionary includes "assesment" and says it is a misspelling.
02:32:22 <zzo38> (Why is there even an entry for a misspelled word?)
02:34:56 <oerjan> zzo38: their policy is to have entries for anything sufficiently attested in use
03:02:02 <zzo38> Do medieval shields have bands of lead in them? Someone told me that they do, but I don't know much about it?
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04:03:49 <zzo38> I invented (but not yet finalized; the GM needs to do that, possibly with my help) a few new spells for GURPS, such as "Altered Vision" and "Vampire Transfer" spells, and also the ideas of "Seek Fire" and "Seek Wind" spells (to go with "Seek Water" and "Seek Earth").
04:04:54 <zzo38> Do you like any of this?
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04:18:02 <zzo38> "Altered Vision" spell allow you to temporarily change the frequency band of the target's vision.
04:33:03 <zzo38> oerjan: I think that you do not need some kind of "use only these words for definitions" rule as an absolute rule, but it should probably be a soft rule perhaps, and the example you gave should probably be OK to use that definition for one of the words but not the other; probably both words are on the same page anyways and you can easily find it, so if you look up one of them and you do not know what it means you can easily find the other one which
04:34:25 <oerjan> zzo38: what you want is to avoid cycles not involving any of the basic words - a list of allowed words is just the simplest way to ensure that.
04:35:00 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes. That is good.
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04:41:32 <Jafet> some shields had iron frames, but I've never heard of shields with heavy metal bands
06:14:19 <zzo38> Neither have I, but the GM of this GURPS game seems to think that they do (with the exception of "light shields"); if he is wrong then I can notify him (he can refuse to believe me if he wishes, or even define some NPCs that have shields with lead bands, but I should notify him anyways).
06:19:08 <zzo38> I looked on Wikipedia and he does seem to be wrong; I see nothing about including lead in shields.
06:20:28 <pikhq> Good god, why would you include lead in shields, even as part of an alloy?
06:20:47 <pikhq> For that matter, why would you want a shield to be heavier?
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06:26:44 <zzo38> He said to absorb the damage, but that does not seem quite right to me.
06:32:24 <zzo38> How much heavier would they be though if they did have lead bands thick enough to not just count as being coated with lead?
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06:39:00 <zzo38> Someone who wishes to fight characters of the same species of my character, by the use of shield bashes, who knows of that vulnerability, may wish to add lead bands if the weight and/or cost would not be a problem.
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06:44:30 <alercah> pikhq: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html
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10:01:57 <oerjan> heh r/physics has a "Motl warning" flair
10:07:35 <\oren\> http://motls.blogspot.ca/ <- this guy?
10:08:34 <oerjan> a physicist so incapable of being polite that he got sacked
10:09:39 <\oren\> and apparently a trump supporter too
10:10:16 <oerjan> but he was impolite way before trump
10:15:10 <\oren\> I wonder if my dad ever met him
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10:27:22 <\oren\> my dad once met stanislaw ulam
10:28:10 <\oren\> despite inventing genocidal weapons
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10:43:30 <int-e> @tell boily ants --> Langton
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10:49:43 <\oren\> I'm adding more characters to my font
10:49:51 <\oren\> what should I add today?
10:54:48 <int-e> a dirty blonde toupet?
10:57:03 <\oren\> I'm not going to do emojis since OS's are moving toward handling them specially
10:58:40 <int-e> I was thinking of a private use character anyway
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10:58:55 <\oren\> which is the only sane way to handle all the shit that the consortium is pushing
10:59:35 <int-e> (and I don't have any plans of actually using your font, so there are plenty of reasons to ignore me anyway)
11:01:58 <int-e> of course 🐜 exists...
11:03:05 <HackEgo> U+1F41C ANT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 9c UTF-16BE: d83ddc1c Decimal: 🐜 \ 🐜 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
11:03:47 <int-e> http://emojipedia.org/ant/ ... emojipedia, *of course* that exists.
11:04:36 <\oren\> ...which is, again, the only sane way to handle all the shit that the consortium is pushing
11:04:43 <HackEgo> Thanks, U+1F41C. ThU+1F41C.
11:06:04 <int-e> HackEgo: ITYM "Tsk".
11:07:02 <\oren\> they are like we need male and female emojis of doctors and shit but we can;t have a subscript N noooo
11:08:43 <\oren\> 𝔍𝔎𝔏𝔐𝔑𝔒𝔓𝔔𝔖𝔗𝔘𝔙𝔚𝔛𝔜𝔞𝔟𝔠𝔡𝔢𝔣𝔤𝔥𝔦𝔧𝔨𝔩𝔪𝔫𝔬𝔭𝔮𝔯𝔰𝔱𝔲𝔳𝔴𝔵𝔶𝔷
11:08:59 <\oren\> all exist but fuck subscripts and superscirpts fuck me
11:09:09 <zzo38> Add a subscript N anyways if you want to
11:09:29 <oerjan> . o O ( 2034: researchers invent telepathy to avoid having to remember all the damn emojis )
11:09:47 <HackEgo> [U+1D520 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL C] [U+1D521 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL D] [U+1D522 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL E]
11:10:13 <wob_jonas> \oren\: um, excuse me but in what sense are OSes handling emojis specially? I thought text engines like pango have had methods to render full-color fonts for ages, not because of emojis, but because of fancy full-color header fonts (as opposed to grayscale) and to be able to render formatted text.
11:10:34 <wob_jonas> how are emoji characters any different from that really?
11:10:35 <int-e> I think I've complained about all those math letters before.
11:10:36 <hppavilion1> \oren\: The plural of "emoji" is "emoji" dammit
11:10:38 <\oren\> wob_jonas: microsoft now handles it with a special vector grahic generator
11:10:53 <hppavilion1> You know, having a separate font module for emoji actually makes sense
11:10:54 <int-e> hppavilion1: no need to get all emojional about it.
11:11:26 * int-e puts hppavilion1 back on ignore
11:12:18 <wob_jonas> oh, English irregular plural fight! now go on and discuss the plural of platypus too!
11:12:57 <int-e> I'd like to contest the notion that "emoji" is an English word.
11:14:02 <int-e> Smileys, emoticons, emojis... what's next?
11:14:25 <\oren\> look if the japanese can steal our words and use them wrong like ファイト then screw it
11:14:31 <int-e> Ems, because they're important enough to justify a single syllable word?
11:14:54 <HackEgo> [U+30D5 KATAKANA LETTER HU] [U+30A1 KATAKANA LETTER SMALL A] [U+30A4 KATAKANA LETTER I] [U+30C8 KATAKANA LETTER TO]
11:15:01 <oerjan> int-e: obviously you need to shorten it down to a single special character hth
11:15:06 <hppavilion1> \oren\: I need a subscript of family of 4- two male parents, one daughter, one son; left father is Fitz-Patrick 1 or 2, right father is fitz-patrick 6, daughter is fitz-patrick 3, son is fitz-patrick 5 with simultaneous superscript female doctor with her fitz-patrick 6 attorney wife
11:15:07 <wob_jonas> int-e: my take is that as phase 1 we should use regular plurals for everything in English, except for "man" and words obviously suffixed with it like "fireman"
11:15:21 <hppavilion1> \oren\: Oh, and they all need to be blackboard bold
11:15:24 <wob_jonas> and as phase 2 we should use regular plurals for everything
11:16:02 <HackEgo> U+1F3FB EMOJI MODIFIER FITZPATRICK TYPE-1-2 \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8f bb UTF-16BE: d83cdffb Decimal: 🏻 \ 🏻 \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F3FC EMOJI MODIFIER FITZPATRICK TYPE-3 \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8f bc UTF-16BE: d83cdffc Decimal: 🏼 \ 🏼 \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
11:16:04 <wob_jonas> but as of yet we're weak so I'm willing to compromise in co-authored text if the co-author is an obviously higher ranked mathematician and wants to write "indices"
11:16:15 <int-e> \oren\: what's that, "height"?
11:16:21 <\oren\> "FAITO", from english fight
11:16:49 <\oren\> means "go, my team" when cheering for a team sport
11:17:00 <\oren\> makes no fucking sense
11:17:24 <wob_jonas> language often doesn't make any sense, yes
11:17:25 <hppavilion1> \oren\: But what if I want to cheer on the team I don't like?
11:17:34 <int-e> sure does... you just transfer it from fighting sports like boxing to other sports.
11:20:43 <wob_jonas> how does she set bombs so quickly in succession?
11:21:50 <int-e> still some "games done quick" competition?
11:22:16 <zzo38> Make a non-Unicode font. That is how to handle it by don't handle it.
11:22:30 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, I'm watching SNES Super Metroid 100% items from AGDQ 2017
11:23:07 <wob_jonas> "she" refers to Samus, who laid a lot of bombs to dig some tunnel from explodable blocks plus also killed some enemy with a bomb between
11:23:15 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Because you have a lot of fire.
11:23:17 <oerjan> my brain registers "how does she set bombs so quickly in succession?" as ungrammatical but cannot explain precisely why.
11:23:57 <oerjan> aspect or word order, or something
11:25:05 <olsner> hmm, sounds fine to me
11:25:35 <wob_jonas> next time, they should rig the stream to show the amounts for the save and kill competition in real time, continuously throughout the Super Metroid run
11:25:55 <wob_jonas> what would you say instead? is the problem with "set"?
11:27:14 <int-e> Seems like a perfectly fine sentence to me. I might insert a "the" before "bombs" but it's not really required.
11:27:28 <int-e> (just a sign of being german, I guess)
11:29:57 * oerjan calls lobotomy hotline
11:30:51 <wob_jonas> int-e: adding "the" sounds strange to me
11:30:58 <\oren\> ｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱ
11:31:16 <int-e> wob_jonas: it does affect the meaning :)
11:31:25 <wob_jonas> I could understand using different verbs, like "lay bombs" or whatever, or "can" instead of "does"
11:32:18 <wob_jonas> yeah, English overuses "can" a lot, even in places where it doesn't make sense. When I don't, that's obviously a sign that I'm not native English.
11:33:34 <int-e> . o O ( How do you do? ... How can you do? ... *runs* )
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11:35:36 <Jafet> fungot: the bomb, dmitri
11:35:36 <fungot> Jafet: what's +o?) yes... :p) i was
11:35:51 <\oren\> somebody set us up the bomb
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11:37:40 <Jafet> actually, the zero wing writer refrained from splitting that infinitive
11:38:03 <Jafet> s/infinitive/compound/
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11:39:15 <\oren\> somebody set up us the bomb
11:39:25 <\oren\> which sounds even worse
11:41:04 <\oren\> 機関士：何者かによって、爆発物が仕掛けられたようです。
11:42:02 <wob_jonas> but I said "set", not "set up". very much not the same.
11:42:35 <\oren\> what you said was fine
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11:43:13 <\oren\> would the phrase not work in norwegian
11:43:47 <\oren\> "how does she set bombs so quickly in succession"
11:44:02 <oerjan> well norwegian doesn't use the "does" construction...
11:44:42 <\oren\> would it end up being "sets" then?
11:44:55 <oerjan> we also don't inflect verbs for person :)
11:45:12 <oerjan> although i guess we do distinguish infinitive from present
11:45:47 <oerjan> not always in my dialect though
11:45:52 <int-e> oerjan: somehow that reference to a hotline made me think of http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/1993/04/30
11:45:53 <wob_jonas> and the freeze beam even freezes platforms
11:46:30 <int-e> ( http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/1992/10/26 is related)
11:46:30 <idris-bot> http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/1992/10/26 is related)<EOF>
11:47:08 <int-e> idris-bot: can you ignore me, please? :-P
11:47:13 <wob_jonas> what's wrong with inflecting verbs for person? it's a good thing, it lets you omit the subject from a lot of sentences. a lot of languages do it here in Europe.
11:48:01 <wob_jonas> it only sucks when the conjugation ends up being horribly irregular
11:48:13 <\oren\> wob_jonas: which is most of the time
11:48:20 <wob_jonas> yeah, that happens in most languages
11:48:33 <\oren\> and always with the most common verb
11:49:01 <\oren\> but japanese doesn't inflect for person
11:49:07 <wob_jonas> \oren\: if it's only with the most common verbs, that's not a problem. if it's with the two hundred most common verbs, like in French, that's a problem.
11:50:05 <wob_jonas> but Hungarian is even worse, you can't guess the most correct declination and conjugation forms even for rare words, so much that often different speakers don't agree what the correct declined form is of rarer words
11:50:48 <wob_jonas> at least in French all rare words are supposed to be, uh, "regular", as in, fall in one of like a dozen regular conjugations depending on its ending, unless it's an obviously prefixed form of some verb
11:51:03 <\oren\> japanese instead has irregular politeness forms like itadaku and gozaru
11:51:29 <wob_jonas> and English too only has like a few hundred irregular verbs, so once you learn about even the rare irregular ones, you're done
11:52:53 <wob_jonas> as a result, speakers *expect* rare English verbs to be regular, so if a rare verb like "heave" has irregular conjugated forms, then it also has the regular ones as alternatives
11:53:13 <wob_jonas> ("heave". seriously. who invents words like that?)
11:53:59 <\oren\> based on weave wove anyway
11:56:00 <\oren\> the worst ones are the ones where everything past the lest letter is replaced with aught
11:56:27 <wob_jonas> \oren\: apparently the irregular form might be more frequent in the particular nautical meaning, or something.
11:57:28 <\oren\> teach taught, buy bought, catch caught, fight fought,
11:57:59 <\oren\> and it's even spelled differently in half
11:59:03 <wob_jonas> and there's the horrible adjective "wrought" which isn't even the participle for any extant verb. no, not even of "wring".
11:59:21 <wob_jonas> \oren\: that would be draw draught, right?
11:59:28 <wob_jonas> draft is just an alternate spelling for draught
12:00:07 <wob_jonas> stink and blink should obviously follow the pattern of the more common drink
12:00:32 <\oren\> like japanese has irregualr stuff but at least after the war they fixed their spelling system
12:00:40 <wob_jonas> anyway, IMO the worst are the ones where the conjugation causes collisions. lie -> lay anyone?
12:02:00 <\oren\> oerjan: that's actually a fairly common usage in Toronto
12:02:10 <int-e> oerjan: what brought that on?
12:02:59 <wob_jonas> I stlil don't remember how that "lie" thing works. It has like two different random conjugations depending on the meaning
12:03:01 <int-e> . o O ( I guess "sing sought sought" is next... )
12:03:38 <wob_jonas> there were some other colliding ones too, but rarer so I don't remember
12:03:52 <wob_jonas> oerjan: isn't that peek poke system?
12:04:27 <oerjan> system? i hardly knew 'em
12:04:35 <wob_jonas> or maybe peek poke varptr defusr system in more modern variants
12:05:01 <\oren\> where one of those is a metal
12:05:15 <wob_jonas> \oren\: and one of them is lighting technology
12:05:41 <wob_jonas> and one of them is a rarer alternate name for dog leashes
12:07:14 <wob_jonas> one of the couch commentators in this has a strain accent I find hard to understand
12:08:34 <oerjan> . o O ( norwegian, being germanic, has irregular verbs fairly similar to english ones )
12:09:00 <\oren\> lie laid/lied lain/lied
12:10:04 <wob_jonas> \oren\: no way. it involves "lay" as a form somewhere
12:10:21 <\oren\> lay is also a verb in the present
12:10:58 <\oren\> as in "the chicken laid an egg"
12:11:21 <oerjan> ligge - lå - ligget, legge - la - lagt
12:11:41 <\oren\> "the man got laid" is the "lie laid lain"
12:12:22 <\oren\> it had better not be in the other sense of laid
12:13:04 <wob_jonas> so then what are the two or maybe three conjugations of "lie"?
12:13:09 <wob_jonas> and which one is for which meaning?
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12:14:18 <\oren\> lie - laid or layed - lain is for lying down in a bed
12:15:00 <\oren\> lie lied lied is for lying about where you had lain the previous night
12:16:46 <wob_jonas> though my dictionary doesn't agree
12:17:25 <wob_jonas> it says lie - lay - lain for the first meaning
12:18:03 <\oren\> i think lay also works
12:18:06 <wob_jonas> lie as in telling falsehoods is regular, so lie - lied - lied
12:18:29 <wob_jonas> and for the transitive verb, lay - laid - laid
12:19:20 <wob_jonas> in total this means that lie has four different past tense forms: lied, lay, laid, layed
12:20:27 <\oren\> meh in this particular case native speakers are confused too so youre all good
12:21:47 <\oren\> to me "I laid on the bed" sounds right but the dictionary doesn't like that so wtf i dunno
12:25:36 <wob_jonas> actually, let me check my other dictionary now
12:28:47 <int-e> "I laid myself down on the bed" :P
12:31:41 <wob_jonas> it's confusing because in English there aren't too many such pairs where the transitive and intransitive verb are different but close
12:31:47 <wob_jonas> another pair is "rise" and "raise"
12:32:02 <wob_jonas> which also involves some irregular conjugation related to flowers or something
12:32:35 <int-e> but rise/rose/risen does not conflict with raise/raised/raised
12:33:19 <int-e> unlike lie/lay/lain(!) and lay/laid/laid
12:35:01 <int-e> and there's lie/lied/lied, so confusing.
12:35:46 <int-e> (which isn't a verb)
12:36:38 <wob_jonas> and "die" which also means like four different things
12:37:41 <wob_jonas> ceasing to live, paint, a mold as in container in which you pour molten metal or plastic to make it assume some particular form, and throwing dice for games of chance
12:37:48 <wob_jonas> some of those might be related, I don't know
12:45:11 <wob_jonas> I know this is obvious, but a 100% run was a good idea, because it shows up parts of the game you never see in other runs
12:46:48 <int-e> . o O ( is "twice" the plural of "twie"? )
12:58:02 <^v> . o O /\ | |
13:00:39 <wob_jonas> I was stupid and messed up this jeans by washing it together with some new woolen socks at high temperature, so now it's all full of alien strands stuck onto it, and I can't get them off even by rewashing it multiple times. I'm now down to only one way that can fix it.
13:02:07 <^v> shit i do at 6 AM during hackathon https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198658294007463936/272703774798118912/20170122_061614.jpg
13:02:16 <int-e> ^v: http://sprunge.us/WMie
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13:03:57 <wob_jonas> ^v: what's that? brainfuck to C translation?
13:04:34 <int-e> hangman in brainfuck?
13:05:28 <int-e> but yeah, that's very blurry. I think it says "readme" in one place
13:05:51 <int-e> (which better corresponds to the code)
13:07:59 <^v> the top left is instruction reference
13:08:05 <^v> bottom left if/else
13:08:26 <^v> right is some obscure C++ code
13:17:01 <wob_jonas> I didn't eve know there's an x-ray specs in this game
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13:18:43 <izabera> http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/
13:19:09 <int-e> izabera: good one.
13:19:30 <int-e> though I wonder why it doesn't ask for a CVC code?
13:19:45 <wob_jonas> the music of this game is still amazing
13:21:12 <wob_jonas> int-e: because they already know that your CVC code is 476
13:22:14 <int-e> so... why does that website use google analytics..
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13:28:54 <int-e> too bad they took the http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/vbvleftnavverified.gif out (though of course for a good reason)
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14:47:54 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
14:51:17 <wob_jonas> he's a @messages-lord now? must be a recent change
14:55:59 <boilyphone> Wob_jellonas. I believe that bit was added awhile ago.
14:57:00 <wob_jonas> I'm not good at using mercurial so I don't know how to check easily, but whatever
14:57:25 <int-e> boilyphone won't see boily's @messages
14:57:57 <wob_jonas> I can't keep the usage syntax of a dozen different vcs in my head.
14:58:11 <wob_jonas> Computer can handle all of them being installed of course.
14:58:15 <int-e> a dozen seems a bit much...
14:58:24 <boilyphone> Int-ello. That's because I'm on my phone, ircing from bed.
14:58:48 -!- boilyphone has changed nick to boily.
14:59:03 <lambdabot> oerjan said 12h 46m 26s ago: i assess that chicken to be misspelled
14:59:03 <lambdabot> int-e said 4h 15m 32s ago: ants --> Langton
14:59:30 -!- boily has changed nick to boilyphone.
14:59:53 <int-e> git mercurial darcs svn cvs rcs, I think those are the ones that I've used and rcs doesn't really count.
15:00:27 <wob_jonas> int-e: slightly, yes. I use git and subversion regularly, but I've had to use a lot of others one-off to checkout individual repositories when the data was only available that way: cvs, bazaar (really), mercurial, darcs, fossil, and that's only the ones I remember.
15:01:11 <int-e> I've heard of monotone, bazaar and fossil.
15:02:04 <wob_jonas> also, a few months ago my co-worker said they're making a new vcs in work time, for some particular purpose connected to a project at work. I asked him if they looked at all the other existing software and made sure none of them is suitable. they said no.
15:02:21 <wob_jonas> luckily it's not something I'll have to work with directly.
15:03:27 <wob_jonas> If it counts, I've also used several wikis that have built-in version control for their content.
15:04:39 <wob_jonas> And of course I've also used management's version control (copies of a file with version numbers in their filename).
15:04:55 <wob_jonas> And I've used diff/patch/diff3 directly a lot too.
15:05:22 <wob_jonas> Sometimes those help even together with a higher-level vcs.
15:07:34 <wob_jonas> I don't think I ever used monotone.
15:08:26 <wob_jonas> Well, hopefully "soon" ais's scapegoat will end the vcs wars forever, because it will be better than all other vcses.
15:10:35 <wob_jonas> boilyphone: no, because ais does talk about scapegoat's design. it's more like just vaporware, more vaporware than aimake4 or the uncursed2
15:10:45 <wob_jonas> it's a lot of work to write a good vcs
15:11:22 <wob_jonas> I have some vague ideas too, but I'll probably never implement them
15:11:42 <wob_jonas> and I'm not even sure if my ideas are consistent
15:11:53 <wob_jonas> as in, what I want to do might be logically impossible
15:12:39 <wob_jonas> what I should do is learn a little of mercurial to find out what its advantages and drawbacks are
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15:23:18 <int-e> Mercurial reminds me of Athur Dent's attempts to get some tea. It's a VCS almost, but not quite, entirely unlike git.
15:25:20 <int-e> It has a sound foundation but its UI keeps tripping me up...
15:28:03 <wob_jonas> solid foundation but bad UI sounds like git, yes
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15:39:17 <wob_jonas> which is strange because you'd think if someone decides to make a new vcs, then having to add a sane UI is the one lesson they'd learn from git
15:42:16 <int-e> do you realize that mercurial and git are pretty much the same age?
15:44:16 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, I thought mercurial is newer, because people seem to define it as better than git
15:45:13 <wob_jonas> or maybe that's only every other vcs that does that, mercurial doesn't?
15:45:24 <wob_jonas> I think I've met mercurial later than git
15:53:37 <wob_jonas> if it's as old as git then I guess it's undrestandible
15:56:04 <int-e> http://marc.info/?l=git&m=111475459526688&w=2 is the earliest mail I can readily find about mercurial.
15:56:48 <int-e> (but there's probably a couple before that on the main lkml)
16:01:22 <int-e> I should ask wikipedia, which links to http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0504.2/0670.html
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17:36:50 <izabera> https://twitter.com/FAKKU/status/822594891339403267
17:53:10 * int-e goes find some bleach to wash the sight from his eyes.
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18:35:23 <wob_jonas> \oren\: is that a list of characters? or does it mean something?
18:39:49 <\oren\> wob_jonas: a list of the characters I've added today
18:42:29 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: the nice thing about SNES is it was designed (as well as they could at the time) to be as extensible as possible from the cartridge
18:44:08 <Zarutian> makes it sometimes pain in the arse to emulate for though.
18:48:10 <pikhq> Yeah, the cartridge can freaking bus-master.
18:48:26 <pikhq> It might not be the best way to make it extensible, but it's definitely flexible.
18:53:21 <int-e> so did they ever make games that came with their own coprocessor?
18:54:40 <FireFly> I believe some of the later games came with on-cartridge processors more powerful than the SNES itself...
18:56:15 <FireFly> "ST018 is used for AI functionality in Hayazashi Nidan Morita Shogi 2. It is a 21.47 MHz, 32-bit ARMv3 processor.[7]"
18:56:52 <FireFly> Kind of crazy compared to the SNES's CPU
18:57:06 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips has lots of other fun chips, too
18:58:54 <wob_jonas> FireFly: yeah. Then there's those laser printers from the late 1990s that had immensely powerful processor and memory in them.
18:59:15 <Zarutian> just to intrepret postscript iirc
18:59:22 <wob_jonas> We had one at home at one point, and while it wasn't actually more powerful than the desktop computer, it was in the same league.
18:59:48 <wob_jonas> These days we have powerful video cards instead, with RAM amount sometimes comparable to the main RAM.
19:00:01 <pikhq> int-e: Also, the SuperFX chips were coprocessors.
19:01:31 <wob_jonas> FireFly: admittedly, laser printers sort of need to have a whole page sized high resolution frame buffer, unlike dot matrix printers, which can get away with just like 512 byte of memory or even less.
19:03:58 <Zarutian> wob_jones: or that dot matrix printer a friend of mine owns, it is connected via parallel port and each pin just control diffrent action or senses something.
19:06:21 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: wow... that's like floppy disk and hard disk connectors, but those are internal to the case, and don't have to direct eight pins, so it's much easier.
19:06:29 <wob_jonas> I didn't know such a thing existed.
19:06:37 <pikhq> Which is a bit unusual for old parallel-attached printers.
19:06:57 <pikhq> Most of them used ASCII right over the cable.
19:07:22 <wob_jonas> I think I know there's a cheap dot matrix printer with no character buffer in it, so it can have even less RAM (and so needs even more continuous attention of the cpu than usual), but wow.
19:07:43 <wob_jonas> pikhq: ASCII or uncompressed bitmap graphics, yes
19:08:30 <wob_jonas> How do you even control such a printer? Do you need a special controller card in front of the parallel port? Or an unusually fast cpu?
19:08:34 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: yeah, it was rather cheapish for its time but could do graphics, if you had the correct software.
19:10:06 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: no, not unusually fast cpu. The thing took its time to work.
19:10:39 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: how much damage could you cause with it if the software was buggy?
19:11:02 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: made it rather easy for my friend to get it working with an arduino though. Loud as hell but does carbon paper nicely
19:11:31 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: not much as there were hardware interlocks and such in it.
19:11:38 <wob_jonas> Would it just print outside of the paper to the rubber drum, or would it like pop all apart so you can't even reassemble it, break the expensive head, and catch fire?
19:12:41 <Zarutian> yeah printing on the rubber drum happened but it was much a deal. Just remember to wipe it before the next page.
19:14:15 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: how many pins does it have?
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19:15:04 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: dont remember but not that many
19:15:14 <pikhq> o.O' ECP parallel defined *DMA* over parallel?
19:15:36 <wob_jonas> I don't think anyone makes printers with less than seven pins.
19:16:12 <Zarutian> printed half line of characters at the time iirc
19:16:43 <Zarutian> or was it 1x8? I truely dont remember
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19:16:59 <wob_jonas> Wandel did build a one-dot printer back in the day => http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/printer.html
19:18:33 <Zarutian> though there was software (written in FigForth iirc) that could do nice line graph plots on that printer.
19:19:07 <Zarutian> as the rubber drum could be stepped back and forth like the printer head.
19:19:53 <wob_jonas> 3x3 would be strange. you have to drag the head all the way through the paper, so I don't think more than one column is worth
19:20:08 <wob_jonas> having a longer column with 9 or 16 pins can be worth, but it's expensive
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19:21:32 <Zarutian> it did bolding by slightly shifting the rubber drum and reprinting the text or stuff to be reprinted
19:22:22 <\oren\> http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/plotter.html
19:22:51 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yes, I know, what about it?
19:23:36 <Zarutian> but here is something that has puzzled me a bit regarding homecomputer magazines in the era of the 6502 is that there didnt seem to be any diy paperpunches or at least paper readers described anywhere in them.
19:24:19 <\oren\> wob_jonas: well he apparently created vector fonts from scratch
19:24:38 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: isn't that because they had casette drives at that time, which was way more efficient than ticker tape?
19:25:14 <wob_jonas> \oren\: dunno, I'm a software guy, so I find building and maintaining the hardware more impressive
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19:27:23 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: well, casettes were semi nice for keeping relatively lot of data. But I am talking about less than a kilobyte or so and it was often easier to optain paper than casettes. Even newpaper could have worked in a pinch.
19:28:04 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: casettes were easy to obtain too.
19:28:26 <wob_jonas> As for a kilobyte of data, you just type that in the keyboard. Unless you have like a zx80 with those horrible keys.
19:29:13 <Zarutian> or that Polish one with 17 keys (4x4 hex plus the I key from a picture I saw)
19:31:14 <Zarutian> dont recall its name. But it was rather extensible design as you could add a real keyboard, diskette drive and so on via daisy chained ribbon cables.
19:33:03 <Zarutian> talking about membrane keyboards, I heard that new designs have started to use the capacitance touch tech to do away with the wearout on the keys.
19:33:43 <Zarutian> I like switch based keyboard for their feel but detest the amount of noise the buckle spring ones make.
19:34:01 <wob_jonas> The IBM PC was also a very extensible design. You would add extra RAM and all other sorts of extension cards to the card slots on the motherboard. A video card is practically a mandatory addition.
19:34:19 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: there are more silent switch keyboards I hear.
19:34:50 <wob_jonas> I bought a nice heavy noisy one for home a few months ago. Here the noise doesn't matter.
19:35:00 <Zarutian> yeah, IBM PC came rather bit later than say Apple ][ or.
19:35:21 <zzo38> I like the original PC keyboard
19:35:21 <wob_jonas> It's so noisy the springs sometimes even *echo* for a few tenths of a second after letting the key go.
19:35:38 <wob_jonas> But sadly spring keyboards are expensive these dasy.
19:35:47 <Zarutian> wob_jonas: I dont like the noise. Heck, I try to find ways to make fans less noisy
19:35:49 <zzo38> They had a good quality. The only problem was the lack of lights on the keyboard.
19:35:53 <wob_jonas> The keyboards themselves are expensive, and so is the shipping.
19:36:16 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: fans, sure. It's different. The keyboard is noisy only when I'm typing on it, and then it doesn't bother me.
19:36:20 <Zarutian> you can bludgeon someone to death in two strikes with these keyboards.
19:36:31 <wob_jonas> It's like how the sudden movements of the car bother you much less if you're driving it.
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19:39:07 <wob_jonas> Zarutian: no, the XT keyboard only has 83, the AT one has 101
19:39:34 <wob_jonas> This one I'm typing on has 104 keys, though in a somewhat unusual layout:
19:40:12 <wob_jonas> the left side is like that of a 104 key keyboard, but the right side with the shift and enter key is placed like a 105 key keyboard, with a long backspace and the backslash next to the enter.
19:40:34 <wob_jonas> The springs on this keyboard are a bit too heavy though, I should buy a weaker one the next time I buy a keyboard.
19:41:00 <wob_jonas> The biggest problem I have is with the shift. Sometimes I fail to press shift at the same time as the key it's supposed to modify.
19:41:22 <wob_jonas> So I type / at the end of questions even more often than with other keybards.
19:41:34 <wob_jonas> But even apart from the shift, the springs feel too strong.
19:41:48 <wob_jonas> Definitely need a weaker one next time (which won't be until some years I guess).
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21:18:13 <HackEgo> relevant info//The large-eyed mouse lemur is a nocturnal tree-dweller.
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01:43:20 <Taneb> Be friends with your digestive system
01:43:27 <Taneb> Consume foodstuffs other than dairy products
02:14:32 <alercah> `learn tanebvice is to consume foodtuffs other than dairy products
02:14:36 <HackEgo> Learned 'tanebvice': tanebvice is to consume foodtuffs other than dairy products
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02:36:52 <zzo38> I can mention the spells I made up (not finalized) for a GURPS game you can tell me the opinion of it. One is you can seek the nearest fire (even lit candles) (but not fire internal to creatures). One is you can seek the nearest significant amount of air that is either a faster wind speed or a slower wind speed than where you are (caster specifies which).
02:39:04 <zzo38> Another spell is you can cast on two mirrors, and causes each mirror to show what the other one reflects, instead of what itself reflects. One more spell is changes the frequency band of the target's vision according to caster's choice (can be: infrared, normal, ultraviolet). And, one more spell is causes the caster's Vampiric Bite power (if he has any) to heal the target of the spell instead of healing himself.
02:40:25 <zzo38> The first two are instant but other three have a limited duration, and can be maintained by paying more energy into the spell after it expires. Changing the frequency band of target's vision is resistible, but you are allowed to choose not to resist.
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03:02:51 <Taneb> zzo38, what do you mean by seek
03:04:23 <Taneb> Actually I am going to go to bed now so I cannot answer
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03:30:11 <zzo38> I can answer anyways in case you read later or someone else on here has the same questions. I mean that the caster can know approximately the distance and direction to such things.
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05:11:32 <HackEgo> I have nothing to tell you.
05:11:47 <HackEgo> \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯\\\?\\\ \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯
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05:16:05 <HackEgo> Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
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05:21:45 <\oren\> What should I add to my font next
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07:00:29 <zzo38> Chess problem circa 840: 6K1/3r3r/5kn1/5p2/5P2/6N1/8/4R1R1 #3
07:38:15 <\oren\> doesthiswork: hmm, seems like it doesn't. I just edited something and it didn't
07:40:08 <\oren\> i forget is i it fizzie who is the person who fixes that wiki to hackego thing
07:45:29 <\oren\> in the future, the main winter holiday will be renamed "Mega Christmas" and it will involve cola, glowy trees and shopping
08:31:38 <fizzie> To the second-to-last comment.
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09:58:50 <b_jonas> \oren\: I still say figure out the details of the OTF format so you can add variant glyphs, then add vertial versions of CJK punctuation
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11:20:22 <b_jonas> zzo38: ayt? Since you make rules for supporting unofficial M:tG cards. I have an Attack Fighter from Droidikar. If I cast Aerial Modification enchanting that, does it become a 2/2 artifact creature equipment vehicle with flying that can't be attached because it's a creature?
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14:11:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Benchmark]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50794 * Taktentus * (+291) first
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14:14:07 <b_jonas> you fixed the wiki reporter?
14:14:35 <mikolaj9> hello, anybody can help me with making web page about Benchmark?
14:15:09 <mikolaj9> is any list of languages who can run on Linux? or some similar method to foud it?
14:21:04 <izabera> every language can run on linux
14:22:06 <mikolaj9> izabera: he he ;-) ok. what You thing about creating benchmark of languages?
14:22:22 <izabera> done https://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
14:23:15 <mikolaj9> I'm not talking about regular lang but esoteric
14:27:03 <mikolaj9> look this https://esolangs.org/wiki/Benchmark
14:27:47 <mikolaj9> jit, compilers and interpreters are separatelly
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15:26:42 <zzo38> b_jonas: Post the text of those cards.
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17:00:14 <b_jonas> `card-by-name aerial modification
17:00:28 <b_jonas> was that what I called the executable?
17:00:50 <b_jonas> oh right, I haven't updated the card list
17:01:28 <b_jonas> `fetch http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2017-01-20.zip
17:01:32 <HackEgo> 2017-01-23 17:01:25 URL:http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2017-01-20.zip [752230/752230] -> "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip" [1]
17:02:20 <b_jonas> ``` mv -vi "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip" share/mtg/
17:02:24 <HackEgo> `All Sets-2017-01-20.zip' -> `share/mtg/All Sets-2017-01-20.zip'
17:02:46 <b_jonas> ``` cd mtg && 7z x "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip"
17:02:49 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: cd: mtg: No such file or directory
17:02:52 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && 7z x "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip"
17:02:54 <HackEgo> /hackenv/lib/p7zip-16.02/7z: 1: /hackenv/lib/p7zip-16.02/7z: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
17:03:07 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && unzip "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip"
17:03:08 <HackEgo> bash: unzip: command not found
17:03:43 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && 7za x "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip"
17:03:45 <HackEgo> bash: /hackenv/bin/7za: cannot execute binary file
17:04:44 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && zcat "All Sets-2017-01-20.zip" > "All Sets-2017-01-20.txt"
17:05:15 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && ls -l "All Sets-2017-01-20.txt"
17:05:17 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 3275030 Jan 23 17:04 All Sets-2017-01-20.txt
17:05:26 <b_jonas> ``` cd share/mtg && cp -v "All Sets-2017-01-20.txt" allsets.txt
17:05:36 <HackEgo> `All Sets-2017-01-20.txt' -> `allsets.txt'
17:05:39 <HackEgo> Aerial Modification \ 4W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature or Vehicle \ As long as enchanted permanent is a Vehicle, it's a creature in addition to its other types. \ Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has flying. \ AER-U
17:06:31 <zzo38> Attack Fighter from Droidikar is what then?
17:06:42 <b_jonas> Attack Fighter is at http://www.darthsanddroids.net/orb/images/v8CPxOOJin.png
17:06:53 <b_jonas> so I think a reasonable text for it would be
17:07:29 <zzo38> Your description of what you thought it meant is correct from what I know.
17:07:51 <b_jonas> Attack Fighter \ 4 \ Artifact - Vehicle Equipment \ Equipped creature has "{1}, {T}: Blast F". \ If Attack Fighter is destroyed, destroy equipped creature. \ Equip {4}
17:08:30 <zzo38> My variant rules would not prevent it from being attached to anything, but other than that it works the same way.
17:08:44 <sdhand> `card-by-name Nissa Worldwaker
17:08:46 <b_jonas> The rules extension for Droidikar is at http://www.darthsanddroids.net/orb/achievements/0REXqMjMV6.html
17:09:11 <b_jonas> (As in, that image describes rules required to support cards in Droidikar.)
17:10:29 <b_jonas> zzo38: the main question is whether Vehicle in Droidikar is the same artifact type as the new Vehicle type in M:tG, and the same question for the Pilot creature type
17:11:00 <zzo38> I think that it should be. I do not see why not.
17:36:23 <b_jonas> Vehicle has special rules, so it could have happened that applying the vehicle rules to the Droidikar cards would lead to absurd conclusions, but as far as I see, that doesn't happen.
17:37:20 <b_jonas> The Droidikar vehicles can be treated as ordinary vehicles, it's just that the ones that didn't use to have p/t printed shall now be assumed to start as 0/0, but that is already normal in the rules.
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17:58:03 <zzo38> Vehicle has no special rules.
17:58:35 <zzo38> I don't know what the Vehicle rules in Droidikar are, but normal Vehicles have no special rules.
17:58:52 <zzo38> (Even though the official rules have a section about them)
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18:37:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: so you're saying that rule 301.7b actually applies not only to Vehicles, but to any card?
18:37:40 <b_jonas> let me try to think of a specific example
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18:48:36 <b_jonas> I control a Sky Skiff that's currently a creature. I have a Quicksilver Elemental, which I activate targetting the Skiff, but while it's on the stack, I use Simic Guildmage to attach an Imprisoned in the Moon to the Elemental. After both of those resolve, the ex-Elemental has a crew ability.
18:49:17 <b_jonas> zzo38: If I activate the crew ability of the ex-Elemental and have it resolve, what will its types and p/t be?
18:49:35 <b_jonas> Sorry for the somewhat convoluted example.
18:52:52 <b_jonas> 301.7a tells what p/t vehicles will have if they're crewed, but that rule doesn't apply here because the ex-Elemental isn't a vehicle. However, it's possible that 301.7a doesn't really do anything, and Kraj regains its 4/6 stats anyway.
18:54:47 <b_jonas> I guess that might be how it works: the rule that noncreature permanents don't have a p/t probably applies late enough, after the types and p/t are computed.
18:55:11 <zzo38> What I meant is that rule 301.7a is redundant; the other rules already do that, regardless of it is a Vehicle or not.
18:57:14 <b_jonas> I'm talking about 301.7b though, not 301.7a
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18:57:41 <b_jonas> I think you're right, vehicles don't have special rules
18:58:17 <b_jonas> that implies there can't be a conflict between the vehicle rules and the Droidikar vehicles
19:07:50 <int-e> vehicles... so extrapolating from that, 5 years from now M:tG will have space ships and laser swords?
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19:10:32 <zzo38> I mean the same thing about rule 301.7b, and even rule 301.7 which is only descriptive and is not an actual rule.
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19:11:14 <int-e> Hah, GG is unplagued!
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19:15:35 <HackEgo> hello hello hello, what's all this then?
19:15:41 <int-e> . o O ( Is "hello" the new "bye"? )
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19:37:26 <HackEgo> o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world,
19:37:33 <HackEgo> A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters.
19:37:59 <HackEgo> b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs b_jonäs oerjan_nop̈e oerjan_nop̈e
19:38:15 <HackEgo> 5951:2015-08-31 <oerjan_nop̈e> learn_append os Also a municipality in Norway. \ 5952:2015-08-31 <oerjan_nop̈e> rm wisdom/o \ 7423:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It\'s about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about the
19:38:17 <shachaf> b_jonas: The undead sorcerer is only a secondary concern by now, isn't it?
19:38:41 <shachaf> Well. Maybe not secondary.
19:38:49 <shachaf> I guess the destruction of the world took precedence for a little while.
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20:24:21 <lambdabot> PAMR 231953Z 03005KT 10SM BKN030 M13/M14 A2942 RMK AO2 SLP967 T11281144
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21:16:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Factory]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50795&oldid=50186 * Enoua5 * (-4) linked to compiler
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21:42:38 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I based that description of o on this interview by Rich, so Word of God says that that's actually what the comic is about: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20461937
21:43:03 <shachaf> rich burlew is not god hth
21:44:13 <shachaf> Anyway, he said that several years ago.
21:46:29 <wob_jonas> I might be reading too much into it
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22:40:04 <HackEgo> pbflist//pbflist is update notification for the Perry Bible Fellowship webcomic. http://pbfcomics.com/
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23:35:46 <HackEgo> monad//Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
23:36:09 <HackEgo> false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true.
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02:06:01 * oerjan wonders if anyone's ever complained about mezzacotta including a book of mormon corpus
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02:07:35 <oerjan> . o O ( hm today's first panel could have fit into that star trek Darmok episode )
02:17:23 * boily isn't in a state to be reading mezzacotta
02:18:02 <oerjan> is anyone? what kind of state are you in
02:18:34 <boily> recovering from a gastro.
02:20:00 <oerjan> "(colloquial, Britain, Australia) Gastroenteritis"
02:20:10 <oerjan> that says nothing about Canadian, eh
02:20:59 <oerjan> so just a little further down on the page.
02:23:06 <boily> time to horizontal...
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03:13:12 <hppavilion1> The URL of http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html looks like it should be the disclaimer "It's not my fault if your dog is killed by your go addiction"
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04:56:27 <HackEgo> tanebvice is to consume foodtuffs other than dairy products
04:57:10 <oerjan> `slwd tanebvice//s,.,T,;s,tu,stu,;s,$,.,
04:57:14 <HackEgo> tanebvice//Tanebvice is to consume foodstuffs other than dairy products.
05:17:37 <shachaf> Is that Taneb's vice or Taneb advice?
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06:42:18 <\oren\> similarly, ㋐㋑㋒㋓㋔㋕㋖㋗㋘㋙㋚㋛㋜㋝㋞㋟
06:42:41 <\oren\> all exist but there is no such character as CIRCLED KATAKANA N
06:43:22 <pikhq> Presumably just because ン can never be word-initial.
06:44:09 <pikhq> A faintly suitable substitute is CIRCLED KATAKANA MU.
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06:44:25 <\oren\> but wever crazier, there's a hole in the code table right at 32FF after ㋾
06:44:27 <pikhq> (in archaic orthography, n wasn't a distinct glyph)
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06:45:19 <\oren\> in other words, the hole where circled ン "should" go is left blank as if on purpose
06:45:51 <pikhq> Yeah, "n" was formally made a character in 1900. Hum.
06:46:05 <pikhq> Prior to that, it was written with mu.
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06:47:21 <pikhq> Granted, then kana weren't very phonetic.
06:47:44 <pikhq> (they were phonetic for Middle Japanese, not Modern.)
06:48:14 <\oren\> screw it i'll just put circled ン there, it has to be on purpose
06:48:40 <oerjan> so was middle japanese completely cv?
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06:49:20 <shachaf> hust use the letter along with a COMBINING CIRCLE AROUND hth
06:49:42 <\oren\> shachaf: looks realy ugly in a terminal
06:49:50 <oerjan> but the combining circle isn't big enough for hth tdnh
06:50:22 <pikhq> Oh, huh, late Middle Japanese was (C)V(C), because of Chinese loanwords.
06:50:48 <shachaf> oerjan: hth ought to be a ligature twh
06:50:52 <pikhq> -n and -m merged to -n, and -t either moved to the initial of the next syllable or became a sokuon.
06:51:03 <pikhq> Prior to that it was (C)V though.
06:51:13 <oerjan> those pesky chinese, messing everything up with their complicated syllable structure
06:51:19 <shachaf> unicode has some p. good arabic ligatures
06:52:00 <\oren\> shachaf: those are among the characters where I run out of pixels
06:52:20 <HackEgo> [U+FDFD ARABIC LIGATURE BISMILLAH AR-RAHMAN AR-RAHEEM]
06:53:22 <\oren\> the first chracter where I ran out was a kanji tho
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06:56:25 <\oren\> ok I've added a hth ligature to my font, it'll be in the next release
06:57:20 <\oren\> U+F81D LATIN LIGATURE LOWERCASE HTH
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07:10:26 <\oren\> also, my support for Canadian Aboriginal Sylabics is finally sufficient for Cree
07:10:30 <\oren\> ᐀ᐁᐂᐃᐄᐅᐆᐇᐈᐉᐊᐋᐌᐍᐎᐏᐐᐑᐒᐓᐔᐕᐖᐗᐘᐙᐚᐛᐜᐝ
07:10:33 <\oren\> ᐞᐟᐠᐡᐢᐣᐤᐥᐦᐧᐨᐩᐪᐫᐬᐭᐮᐯᐰᐱᐲᐳᐴᐵᐶᐷᐸᐹᐺᐻᐼᐽᐾᐿᑀᑁᑂᑃᑄᑅᑆᑇᑈᑉᑊᑋᑌᑍᑎᑏᑐᑑᑒᑓᑔᑕᑖᑗᑘᑙᑚᑛᑜᑝ
07:10:37 <\oren\> ᑞᑟᑠᑡᑢᑣᑤᑥᑦᑧᑨᑩᑪᑫᑬᑭᑮᑯᑰᑱᑲᑳᑴᑵᑶᑷᑸᑹᑺᑻᑼᑽᑾᑿᒀᒁᒂᒃᒄᒅᒆᒇᒈᒉᒊᒋᒌᒍᒎᒏᒐᒑᒒᒓᒔᒕᒖᒗᒘᒙᒚᒛᒜᒝ
07:10:41 <\oren\> ᒞᒟᒠᒡᒢᒣᒤᒥᒦᒧᒨᒩᒪᒫᒬᒭᒮᒯᒰᒱᒲᒳᒴᒵᒶᒷᒸᒹᒺᒻᒼᒽᒾᒿᓀᓁᓂᓃᓄᓅᓆᓇᓈᓉᓊᓋᓌᓍᓎᓏᓐᓑᓒᓓᓔᓕᓖᓗᓘᓙᓚᓛᓜᓝ
07:10:45 <\oren\> ᓞᓟᓠᓡᓢᓣᓤᓥᓦᓧᓨᓩᓪᓫᓬᓭᓮᓯᓰᓱᓲᓳᓴᓵᓶᓷᓸᓹᓺᓻᓼᓽᓾᓿᔀᔁᔂᔃᔄᔅᔆᔇᔈᔉᔊᔋᔌᔍᔎᔏᔐᔑᔒᔓᔔᔕᔖᔗᔘᔙᔚᔛᔜᔝ
07:10:49 <\oren\> ᔞᔟᔠᔡᔢᔣᔤᔥᔦᔧᔨᔩᔪᔫᔬᔭᔮᔯᔰᔱᔲᔳᔴᔵᔶᔷᔸᔹᔺᔻᔼᔽ
07:23:32 <lambdabot> PAMR 240653Z AUTO 35008KT 10SM FEW065 OVC100 M08/M10 A2927 RMK AO2 SLP916 T10831100 TSNO
07:25:15 <\oren\> hppavilion1: specifically, Cree Spam
07:25:53 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cree_syllabics
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08:38:28 <izabera> trump is the most popular president since obama
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09:57:29 <int-e> trump has his own national holiday already
09:57:56 <int-e> "National Day of Patriotic Devotion", January 20th
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11:18:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 241100Z 04022G28KT 15SM OVC055 M03/M09 A2981 RMK SC8 SLP096
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14:17:51 <HackEgo> 506) <fizzie> Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though?
14:19:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mathtician * New user account
14:24:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50796&oldid=50787 * Mathtician * (+131) I introduced myself!
14:26:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50797&oldid=50796 * Mathtician * (+92)
14:29:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50798&oldid=50678 * Mathtician * (+23) Added "(pronounced "slashes")" to the beginning of the page
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15:45:00 <rdococ> how would Mathtician know the proper pronunciation was "slashes"
15:53:42 <int-e> it's a mystery, but they probably know what they're doing, because otherwise why would they edit the wiki page?
15:54:02 <HackEgo> The wiki is at <http://esolangs.org/>.
16:18:27 <b_jonas> maybe he's a wizard who has to use the True Name of Things for magic, and as such has tested which pronunciation was the most effective for doing magic with ///
16:33:41 <Taneb> shachaf, my advice is to eat foodstuffs other than dairy products
16:33:53 <Taneb> My vice is eating too much cheese and chocolate and drinking too much milk
16:35:48 <b_jonas> you can never drink too much milk
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16:38:05 <Taneb> b_jonas, believe me, yes you can
16:38:17 <Taneb> Eventually you run out of milk and have to go to the shop and get more milk
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17:06:25 <Taneb> `? algebraic group
17:06:32 <HackEgo> algebraic group? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:07:18 <Taneb> `learn An Algebraic Group is a group in the category of algebraic varieties.
17:07:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'algebraic': An Algebraic Group is a group in the category of algebraic varieties.
17:07:59 <Taneb> Never figured out how to use the le/rn stuff
17:09:41 <shachaf> `le//rn wisdom entry name//wisdom entry value hth
17:20:03 <b_jonas> about HackEgo, I wonder, is it by design that the commands don't get information about the network, channel, nickname, nickserv auth, etc of where the irc command came from, so that you can test commands in private message and they have the same effect as in a channel? or is this just because the author never implemented it
17:20:36 <b_jonas> I made buubot receive some of this information, so it can use them in user-defined commands (macros)
17:24:00 <b_jonas> testcase: /msg perlbot compose `compose `eval "(echo ".join(" ",map{"$_=(arg d&$_)"}"a".."z").")"''
17:24:39 <b_jonas> it will say stuff like, among others, n="somenick" and c="#somechannel" if somenick gives this command on #somechannel instead of a private message
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20:13:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Melangelv * New user account
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20:32:17 <hppavilion1> How do you say "Don't be a dick" in German?
20:33:10 <hppavilion1> <izabera> trump is the most popular president since obama <-- You are TECHNICALLY correct! The best kind of correct!
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20:43:31 <fizzie> What does it even mean to be "a big person when it comes to the environment"?
20:45:19 <shachaf> https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-24/metrics-fees-and-regulations
20:46:19 <shachaf> That theory of regulation is pretty good.
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21:19:30 <int-e> yes. overreaching regulation is regulation that affects you and/or your friends.
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21:22:47 <int-e> I think this means that I disagree with the 5th point.
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21:36:40 <Taneb> \oren\, I'm still a fan of the name "Haskell on a Horse", even if the framework itself is completely dead
21:37:16 <Taneb> Something like that
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21:37:40 <\oren\> wait, no, that's just regualr LISP
21:37:54 <shachaf> Did you fix your build and test infrastructure yet?
21:38:13 <\oren\> shachaf: oh, hahaha... no.
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21:39:12 <\oren\> because it's huge, commentless, and in a programming language I don't know
21:39:22 <shachaf> "fix" might mean "replace" hth
21:40:11 <shachaf> but have you considered that it's horribly broken hth
21:40:37 <\oren\> I have brought this up... the reply is, "we'll fix it someday"
21:41:30 <shachaf> why not do it in the 4 hours it takes you to build a build hth
21:42:16 <\oren\> oh, I know, I'll add tonight a kek ligature to my font
21:43:21 <\oren\> wait no, the frog emoji already exists
21:51:35 <Taneb> I think I am going to have a long night
21:53:54 <Taneb> PHP on a pogo stick
21:54:43 <int-e> BASIC on Bumblebees.
21:55:33 <\oren\> no actually, VHDL on VTOLS is funnier
21:55:44 <int-e> (it *is* a viable transport medium if you're pollen)
21:57:04 <\oren\> or maybe Lua on Lorries
21:57:05 <shachaf> aren't these jokes 10 years out of date tdnh
21:57:21 <int-e> we're all little children *now*
21:58:46 * int-e sprinkles shachaf with confetti.
22:00:07 <\oren\> actually M4 might be an ok thing to use to preprocess HTML
22:00:22 <\oren\> Maybe I'll start using it on my website
22:01:04 <Taneb> That's GNU's macro language, right?
22:01:25 <Taneb> And not the road from London to Swansea
22:02:10 <int-e> oh is that one of the motorways that you can only escape through centrifugal [petal if you're picky] force?
22:02:31 <Phantom__Hoover> m4 is the most obscure and the most bizarre of the standard unix esolangs
22:03:06 <int-e> (I suspect that idea is from the first Dirk Gently novel, but it could be either one.)
22:03:14 <Phantom__Hoover> if only because you can basically write useful programs in it as a practical course of action, at the cost of your sanity
22:04:31 <Phantom__Hoover> has tswett made any esolangs based on, like, nonstandard foundations or anything
22:04:43 <Phantom__Hoover> i ask mostly because he's the first person id suspect to do so
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23:16:48 <HackEgo> urbandictionary//Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database.
23:17:14 <HackEgo> 1/2:ais523//Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. \ denial//Sorry, but we don't know anything about denial. Taneb most definitely did not invent it. \ ambiguous//Ambiguous, from Greek 'ἀν-' l
23:17:32 <shachaf> oerjan: There should be `4, to follow up when someone has already printed one wisdom/quote.
23:17:42 <shachaf> But then the question is what `3 should be.
23:41:07 <shachaf> `2 is the obvious extension of `1 hth
23:41:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
23:42:06 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 0: not found
23:43:49 <shachaf> `1 is an extension of `` hth
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00:06:58 <HackEgo> 1/2:ø//ø is not going anywhere. \ things boily likes//Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. Moreover, cubes. \ tanea//Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. \ wob_jonas//wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks. \ codensity//Codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows re
00:07:36 <boily> I haven't hit a cube in over a year.
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00:23:03 <oerjan> `learn Nilfisk is the fish of choice for the connoiseuring spämmer.
00:23:08 <HackEgo> Learned 'nilfisk': Nilfisk is the fish of choice for the connoiseuring spämmer.
00:24:39 <oerjan> evenœ→ily. why the arrow?
00:25:13 <boily> → and ø are next to each other on my layout.
00:25:31 <boily> nilfisk... let me guess: "null fish"?
00:25:35 <oerjan> `learn Spämmers are advertisers of spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product.
00:25:38 <HackEgo> Learned 'spämmer': Spämmers are advertisers of spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product.
00:25:50 <boily> spämmi spämmi späm ♪
00:26:08 <oerjan> `slwd spämmer//s,sp,Sp,
00:26:11 <HackEgo> spämmer//Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product.
00:26:21 <oerjan> THEY MIGHT BE GETTING TO ME
00:27:15 <oerjan> boily: i suspect the "nil" refers to the Nile
00:27:18 <boily> . o O ( NullPointerException'n'Chips )
00:27:36 <boily> oh, crocodile then.
00:28:49 <oerjan> oh, it's actually probably a portmanteau of the company founders, Fisker and Nielsen
00:30:13 <oerjan> although i will always imagine a fish living in the Nile with unusual sucking powers
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00:36:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: spämmer: not found
00:38:11 <HackEgo> Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product.
00:38:25 <boily> hppavellon1. you aren't spämming correctly.
00:38:39 <HackEgo> Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product.
00:39:11 <hppavilion1> myname: Combining diacritics are the superior encoding of diacritical letter.
00:39:18 <boily> no you aren't. your späm chi isn't aligned. please rephase the manifold conductors.
00:39:51 * boily combines a mapole with hppavilion1
00:39:58 <myname> hppavilion1: well, if my keyboard would do that in a transparent way, i would agree
00:41:00 <oerjan> hppavilion1: i'm sure Nilfisk is good, but spammers keep advertising it
00:42:02 <hppavilion1> oerjan: ...wait, is Spämmi an actual fish product? I'm unclear now.
00:43:59 <boily> the Finnish Urban Sanakirja has: https://www.urbaanisanakirja.com/word/spammi-2/
00:49:46 -!- boily has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Spämming | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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01:00:19 <oerjan> hppavilion1: no, i'm just punning on Spam and Nilfisk
01:00:45 <HackEgo> Spämmers are advertisers of Spämmi, the delicious Finnish fish product.
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01:25:37 * oerjan ends up making corrections on Nilfisk's wikipedia page, including requesting a page move...
01:26:08 <oerjan> which someone from the company tried to do 2 years ago, but no one was apparently reading it
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01:26:49 <oerjan> (and i cannot do it automatically because someone foolishly added a category to the redirect
01:28:51 <oerjan> . o O ( hm they should relax the moving-over-redirect rule to allowing it whenever the target has _always_ been a redirect, and then _swapping_ them )
01:32:33 <boily> “Nilfisk is a supplier of professional cleaning equipment in both industrial, commercial and consumer markets.”
01:32:50 <oerjan> i didn't fix _everything_
01:33:10 <oerjan> just the things to do with the company name, and a couple misplaced things
01:35:34 <oerjan> the word "både" of norwegian/danish is obviously cognate to "both", but afaik doesn't have any prohibition against more than two entries.
01:38:13 <oerjan> (although in different usage, both also corresponds to "begge", which does.)
01:38:57 <oerjan> (the former is a conjuction, the second a determiner)
01:40:01 <oerjan> (it must be a determiner rather than adjective, because it replaces the definite article)
01:40:42 <oerjan> actually, it can be _followed_ by a definite article. still not what an adjective does.
01:45:03 <boily> “both” is always «les deux». very sensible.
01:45:44 <oerjan> i was hoping that you'd get to the "sensible" before i remembered the ways in which norwegian was more complicated
01:45:58 <tswett> <Phantom__Hoover> has tswett made any esolangs based on, like, nonstandard foundations or anything
01:45:58 <tswett> <Phantom__Hoover> i ask mostly because he's the first person id suspect to do so
01:46:22 <tswett> Here, let me make a very simple one right now.
01:46:36 <oerjan> boily: does that also apply to both ... and ... ?
01:46:55 <tswett> Ummm, crap. How does NFU work, again.
01:47:09 <tswett> I'm gonna think out loud!
01:47:17 <tswett> Consider this famous function:
01:47:28 <tswett> @type let ss x y z = x z (y z) in ss
01:47:31 <lambdabot> (t2 -> t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t) -> t2 -> t1
01:47:52 <boily> oerjan: well, that's «à la fois», but it doesn't really count >_>'...
01:47:59 <tswett> NFU wouldn't allow that function, because t2 appears at two different "levels".
01:48:13 <tswett> This type would be allowed, however:
01:48:24 <tswett> ((() -> t2) -> t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t) -> t2 -> t1
01:49:18 <tswett> So you'd have to implement it like this:
01:49:26 <tswett> @type let ss x y z = x (\() -> z) (y z) in ss
01:49:28 <lambdabot> ((() -> t2) -> t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t) -> t2 -> t1
01:52:13 <tswett> The "level" of a type variable is the number of function arrows that it's nested inside of.
01:52:31 <tswett> Likewise, this would be prohibited:
01:52:40 <tswett> @type let kk x y = x in kk
01:52:43 <oerjan> and there's no currying in that, i see
01:53:21 <tswett> But this would be allowed:
01:53:24 <tswett> @type let kk x y = x () in kk
01:54:26 <oerjan> so, you just replace v by () -> v until all levels match?
01:55:02 <tswett> Let me look at the other non-obvious ones.
01:55:13 <tswett> @type let bb x y z = x (y z) in bb
01:55:15 <lambdabot> (t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t) -> t2 -> t1
01:55:39 <oerjan> looks like you've got two options there
01:56:10 <tswett> @type let bb x y z = x (\() -> y z) () in bb
01:56:12 <lambdabot> ((() -> t1) -> () -> t2) -> (t -> t1) -> t -> t2
01:56:59 <tswett> @type let bb x y z = x () (y z) in bb
01:57:01 <lambdabot> (() -> t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t) -> t2 -> t1
01:57:23 <tswett> But the first one is more "normalized".
01:58:13 <oerjan> @type let bb x y z = x (\()->()) (y z) in bb
01:58:15 <lambdabot> ((() -> ()) -> t -> t1) -> (t2 -> t) -> t2 -> t1
01:58:40 <tswett> "Levels" only apply to variables, and () isn't a variable.
01:59:00 <oerjan> i imagined, i just wanted to say that
01:59:21 <tswett> @type let cc x y z = x z y in cc
02:00:03 <tswett> @type let cc x y z = x (\() -> z) (y ()) in cc
02:00:06 <lambdabot> ((() -> t) -> t1 -> t2) -> (() -> t1) -> t -> t2
02:00:29 <tswett> @type let ww x y = w y y in ww
02:00:32 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘t4 -> t4 -> t5’
02:00:38 <tswett> @type let ww x y = x y y in ww
02:01:32 <tswett> @type let ww x y () = x (\() -> (y ())) (y ()) in ww
02:01:34 <lambdabot> ((() -> t) -> t -> t1) -> (() -> t) -> () -> t1
02:02:12 <tswett> Okay, so here's the esolang.
02:02:23 <tswett> You have these altered versions of B, C, I, K, S, and W.
02:02:30 <tswett> Except that I actually remains the same.
02:02:41 * oerjan got pirate.careers as the best of three
02:03:58 <tswett> And there's a thing that means (), and there's a thing where, given a thing E, you can make the thing \() -> E.
02:04:05 <oerjan> lady.solar is nicely absurd
02:05:22 <oerjan> and will the combinations automatically be well typed?
02:05:52 <oerjan> i think your last thing might break things
02:06:35 <oerjan> unless it's purely a syntax, i guess
02:08:33 <oerjan> maybe it's even redundant somehow
02:10:06 <oerjan> given () -> A and () -> B, can you construct () -> A B without using your thing
02:11:48 <oerjan> @type let xx f x () = f () (x ())
02:11:50 <lambdabot> not an expression: ‘let xx f x () = f () (x ())’
02:11:54 <oerjan> @type let xx f x () = f () (x ()) in xx
02:11:56 <lambdabot> (() -> t -> t1) -> (() -> t) -> () -> t1
02:12:33 <tswett> The last thing is a syntactic construct, not a function.
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02:15:18 <tswett> @type let undist x () y = x (\() -> y) ()
02:15:21 <lambdabot> not an expression: ‘let undist x () y = x (\() -> y) ()’
02:15:27 <tswett> @type let undist x () y = x (\() -> y) () in undist
02:15:28 <lambdabot> ((() -> t) -> () -> t1) -> () -> t -> t1
02:15:50 <tswett> Then oerjan's xx is the corresponding "dist" function.
02:16:51 <oerjan> oh it wasn't wrong, i was just confused
02:17:44 <shachaf> <belinksy> That wasn't wrong, it was only ridiculous.
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04:43:55 <\oren\> When you learn what a nitrogen atom is, you can talk about me.
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05:10:59 <oerjan> @tell rdococ <rdococ> how would Mathtician know the proper pronunciation was "slashes" <-- my guess is from the codegolf link at the end of the page
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05:51:53 <oerjan> `learn Fugals are fictitious flower parts.
05:52:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'fugal': Fugals are fictitious flower parts.
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06:26:07 <^v> http://blog.pxtst.com/high-level-strings-in-brainfuck/
06:27:25 <^v> what do you think?
06:30:10 <tswett> Anyone here speak silicon?
06:30:19 <tswett> http://i.imgur.com/yKH5Y2U.jpg - this, apparently, is the Intel 8008.
06:30:38 <^v> what about it
06:31:06 <tswett> I wonder if that image contains enough information to emulate the processor.
06:31:39 <tswett> The image is certainly rather confusing.
06:32:18 <^v> i belive there is enough information for a (human) to put together an emulator
06:32:42 <tswett> Hey, they shrank it. No fair.
06:32:45 <tswett> Here's the original...
06:32:46 <tswett> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z4RzZ24yNqU/WF4ffuFFN4I/AAAAAAAA-pI/ol-npvcvl_YKk8IRVgkO4qN7RMcqcRCMwCHM/w9999/8008-die-adjusted.jpg
06:33:21 <^v> ok now maybe you could do it programmability
06:33:31 <^v> what kind of word is that
06:33:43 <^v> why is that in my dictionary
06:33:57 <^v> and programmically isnt
06:34:25 <myname> i think it's an adverb
06:35:07 <tswett> Here's an even bigger picture...
06:35:07 <tswett> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tmNTCAwkHqg/WF4fftrjlEI/AAAAAAAA-pI/NroDy4tS_9s7xBjwDj7CA0cT-TEDgT07wCHM/w9999/die.jpg
06:35:49 <tswett> "I couldn't find good die photos of the 8008, so I opened one up and took some detailed photographs." http://www.righto.com/2016/12/die-photos-and-analysis-of_24.html
06:35:56 <^v> now give us a 3d x-ray
06:35:58 <tswett> Yeah, I do that all the time.
06:37:14 <oerjan> ^v: program comes from the greek -ma class of nouns, which tend to get the -mat- before other greek suffixes.
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06:48:21 <tswett> And by fun I mean super tedious and potentially not fun at all, but at least somewhat interesting on some level...
06:48:38 <tswett> To translate the 8008 into WireWorld.
07:00:07 <\oren\> hwy does it say intₑl 1971
07:01:32 <tswett> Presumably because it was designed by Intel in 1971.
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07:03:49 <tswett> Because that's what their logo looked like at the time.
07:05:37 <\oren\> intel's logo now looks like
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07:20:55 <HackEgo> [U+256F BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT ARC UP AND LEFT]
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07:21:10 <oerjan> somehow, that was the only one not showing properly
07:22:20 <myname> it's fine here, but the first line got shifted
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07:24:11 <\oren\> 𝐖𝐄𝐍𝐃𝐘'𝐒 𝐎𝐋𝐃 𝐅𝐀𝐒𝐇𝐈𝐎𝐍𝐄𝐃 𝐇𝐀𝐌𝐁𝐔𝐑𝐆𝐄𝐑𝐒
07:30:34 <\oren\> 𝐖𝐄𝐍𝐃𝐘'𝐒 𝐎𝐋𝐃 𝐅𝐀𝐒𝐇𝐈𝐎𝐍𝐄𝐃 𝐇𝐀𝐌𝐁𝐔𝐑𝐆𝐄𝐑𝐒
07:33:44 -!- hppavilion1 has joined.
07:39:28 <\oren\> 𝒥ℯ𝒷'𝓈 JUNKYARD & SPACESHIP PARTS
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08:30:32 <\oren\> 𝖨𝗢𝖭𝖨𝖢 𝖲𝗒𝗆𝗉𝗁𝗈𝗇𝗂𝖼 𝖯𝗋𝗈𝗍𝗈𝗇𝗂𝖼 𝖤𝗅𝖾𝖼𝗍𝗋𝗈𝗇𝗂𝖼𝗌
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11:27:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:7]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50799 * Qwerp-Derp * (+337) Created page with "I think you should describe what "bars" actually are, and maybe include smaller programs that help the reader understand the control flow of 7 itself. I would help, but I'm ki..."
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11:35:52 <HackEgo> ops///msg ChanServ access list #esoteric
11:36:41 <int-e> @tell lambdabot where are my messages?
11:45:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50800&oldid=44996 * SuperJedi224 * (-66)
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14:24:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skayo * New user account
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14:31:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50801&oldid=50797 * Skayo * (+84) /* Introductions */
14:32:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50802&oldid=50236 * Skayo * (+94)
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18:54:10 <\oren\> hipchat is such inferior technology
18:54:23 <\oren\> I can't color text in it
18:57:56 <\oren\> or even italic or bold! wut is up with that
18:59:08 <\oren\> a futuristic chat system should have full support for LaTeX like math and syntax highlighted code snippets
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19:07:52 <int-e> maybe but this is IRC.
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19:15:59 <\oren\> int-e: right but why is this modern chat system inferior to IRC
19:21:32 <\oren\> wow, my irssi process has been running since october 11 2016
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19:24:53 <hppavilion1> Out of curiosity, who does one contact to submit a new metric unit?
19:27:04 <\oren\> the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Conference_on_Weights_and_Measures
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21:07:23 <ambrus> hppavilion1, \oren\: no, I think you contact your national standards body ("body" means a government-established institution there), and they contact the international organization.
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21:23:39 <\oren\> hppavilion2: you have to contact your national standards body
21:23:52 <\oren\> what unit did you want to anem anyway
21:26:11 <int-e> HackEgo: you're so lucky to still be here, you know that?
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21:30:43 <wob_jonas> argh I was using the wrong nick again
21:31:18 <int-e> waste of bandwidth?
21:31:43 <\oren\> I assumed it was wob as in a wobsite
21:32:31 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yes, it's wob as in a wobsite, because it's a wob-based IRC client
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22:22:36 <hppavilion2> \oren\: kg * m / s^3 = N/s (rate of change or disturbance of Force) is the Kenobi (Kn), kg * m / s^4 = Kn/s = N/s^2 is the Tarkin (rate at which force is changed/disturbed)
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22:35:35 <\oren\> Hooray, I finally get some actual specifications on what this thing is supposed to do rather than guessing
22:41:06 <\oren\> the feature i'm impelmenting
22:41:34 <\oren\> previously I had an email describing it with little more than its name
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00:01:02 <boily> question about (<*) and (*>): why are both arguments evaluated, if one of them gets discarded?
00:06:16 <shachaf> Do you mean why both are executed?
00:06:26 <shachaf> The answer is that that's the purpose of those functions.
00:08:23 <boily> I know it works, I can use them, but the way it works confuses me.
00:10:09 <boily> maybe I'm misunderstanding laziness. if I'm fmapping "const" or "const id" into (<*>), shouldn't I be able to just plain ignore one of the arguments and just evaluate the other?
00:10:46 <shachaf> You keep using the word "evaluate".
00:10:58 <shachaf> But I don't think you're talking about evaluation.
00:11:39 <boily> is there a better term to say "extract the value from this function application"?
00:15:09 <boily> if "f (<*) g = const <$> f <*> g", then shouldn't the "const" disregard what's inside the g?
00:16:16 <boily> from there (and I guess where I'm completely wrong), my intuition is that the whole g is useless, so nothing should happen with it, so the whole thing could be reduced to only f.
00:19:51 <shachaf> There is nothing inside g, probably.
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00:20:19 <shachaf> These things don't contain things (in general).
00:20:40 <shachaf> Are f and g functions here?
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00:27:00 <boily> another way: "getLine <* getLine" should only get a single line, as the second one isn't needed to manipulate the "IO String" you type.
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00:40:57 <oerjan> <boily> lament? <-- yep! doesn't come around much these days though.
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01:28:26 <HackEgo> sense//Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei.
01:29:16 <shachaf> boily: Why should it only get a single line?
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01:32:28 <boily> if I write "a <- getLine <* getLine", then "a" only depends on what happens with the first getLine. the second one could be dropped, and nothing would change.
01:33:55 <shachaf> What if you write do { a <- getLine; _ <- getLine; ... }?
01:34:14 <shachaf> I think the problem is the same as what I said above: You're confusing evaluation and execution.
01:35:35 * boily is suddenly enlightened
01:36:30 <boily> well, only by an incandescent bulb, but I *think* I'm getting there.
01:37:03 * oerjan enlightens boily further with a match
01:38:32 <shachaf> is there a good place to read about this sort of thing
01:38:39 <shachaf> i wrote e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/a/13538351 but it's not ideal
01:38:49 <oerjan> boily: <* means "execute both for their side effects; keep only the first return value"
01:42:39 <boily> oerjan: yes, it means that, it works, but it's the *why* that I fail to grasp.
01:42:49 * boily is still perusing the shachanwer...
01:54:16 <boily> [1, 2, 3] <* [4, 5] = const <$> [1, 2, 3] <*> [4, 5]
01:54:18 <boily> [const 1, const 2, const 3] <*> [4, 5]
01:54:20 <boily> [f x | f <- [const 1, const 2, const 3], x <- [4, 5]]
01:54:22 <boily> [1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3]
01:59:09 <boily> to be able to get from a form that has (<*>) to one that hasn't it, I have to "do something" with the second argument before being able to apply the "const" and get to the end result.
02:00:00 * boily uses oerjan's match to keep warm
02:02:57 <boily> and that "do something" depends on the instance of (<*>), but there will always be a something to be done. plugging in a const has no consequence whatsoever that that thing be done or not.
02:03:19 * boily feels like he's getting non-homeopathically closer
02:04:07 <shachaf> Laziness is just irrelevant here.
02:06:54 <boily> oerjan: can I keep the match? it has fire, and fire is good.
02:20:14 * oerjan accidentally marks a wiktionary edit as minor instead of adding it to his watchlist. this is what happens when you're not careful enough and cannot actually read the button descriptions.
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02:45:13 <Zarutian> http://climatetorrent.com/ can you kindly torrent (and possibly seed these)? Before it goes in the 'memory hole'.
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05:25:39 <hppavilion2> There seem to be analogues of Newton's laws for both Linear (translational) systems and Angular (rotational) systems. While I'm not sure it can happen in this universe, are there (somehow) analogues for translation? Somehow?
05:25:45 <hppavilion2> I'm really not sure if I know what I'm talking about
05:31:40 <hppavilion2> Nope, non-continuous so it doesn't make sense
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07:13:46 <zgrep> Huh. Some more ways to acquire the climate data that's in climatetorrent.com: https://climate.daknob.net/
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10:29:18 * oerjan finally blocks redditmedia.com
10:29:31 <oerjan> (or disables it from running scripts)
10:30:21 <oerjan> my tabs were getting an endless series of certificate errors.
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11:15:43 <int-e> oerjan: did you see the "unplagued" pun? I expected a swatting... :P
11:17:53 <oerjan> um, what's the pun in that
11:21:04 <oerjan> are you thinking "unplugged" or something
11:21:50 <oerjan> meantime, colette is no longer unplugged.
11:22:20 <oerjan> i wonder if beausoleil will show up inside that thing
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11:51:48 <int-e> izabera: btw I gave up on the CaC ticket and instead deleted and recreated the VM two times (the first time routing still didn't work... they've messed something up pretty badly in their routing it seems)
11:52:20 <int-e> So... performing as expected. :P
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16:15:36 <izabera> int-e: try to have a backup :\
16:17:36 <int-e> Well, most of the work is actually getting rid of systemd, rpcbind (why would anyone set up a system with rpcbind running in its default configuration?!) and setting up apache.
16:17:44 <int-e> there's almost no data there anyway.
16:18:12 <int-e> and this time I took some notes
16:19:39 <int-e> Oh they want feedback on how they performed on the ticket...
16:19:57 <int-e> ...let's see, I tried to leave some final comments and it earned my an entry on their server's blacklist
16:20:59 <int-e> (though that could also have been triggered by the fact that I used the session cookie from two different IPs)
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18:28:01 <\oren\> I had to pkill -9 chrome
18:28:25 <\oren\> because chroma kept turning my mouse into a beach ball
18:30:19 <int-e> (when I see "mouse" I think of the physical device, not the pointer)
18:36:27 <HackEgo> The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
18:36:28 <int-e> can we have n9y25ah7 for next month?
18:37:04 <int-e> (context, https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/sean-spicer-n9y25ah7/ )
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19:15:31 <izabera> 2020 olympic high jump results:
19:16:33 <\oren\> in the news, shia the boof trolled and v& by 9gag
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20:03:20 <\oren\> hppavilion1: do you like vaporwave?
20:03:27 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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20:04:31 <\oren\> hppavilion1: where did your [] go?
20:05:03 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
20:05:22 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: My nick is hppavilion1 on foonetic so it carries over here
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20:06:01 <shachaf> what sort of language should a build system use for describing build targets and so on
20:06:01 <\oren\> shachaf: do you like vaporwave
20:06:19 <shachaf> do you think it should be similar to the nix language? that one looks very complicated
20:06:32 <\oren\> shachaf: I can say it shoudn't be Salmon
20:06:50 <shachaf> Why don't you take it as your work project to fix the awful build system?
20:08:10 <\oren\> there are things that have higher priority
20:08:24 <shachaf> If it takes four hours to check in a commit?
20:08:40 <\oren\> well, you can work on a different checkout in the mean time
20:09:51 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMLrn_bLmT0&t=2153s
20:10:17 <shachaf> I don't typically like music with drums in it.
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20:17:19 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9L4q-0Pi4E
20:18:38 <\oren\> Vaporwave (British English: vapourwave)[10] is an electronic music subgenre [11] that originated in the early 2010s and spread over the next half of the decade among various Internet communities. It is characterized by a nostalgic or surrealist fascination with entertainment, technology and advertising of the 1980s and 1990s, and styles of both corporate and popular music such as lounge music, smooth jazz and elevator music.
20:21:39 <\oren\> I did some exploration of the build system yesterday. those parts that aren't written in Salmon are written in Perl, Bash and Python
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20:34:42 <moony> zzo38, just going to ask, im making a demo NPM module for otherbot's sandbox, which uses the design you came up with. do you require me to add you as one of the authors of the sandbox?
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20:50:38 <\oren\> the last president to have a moustache was Taft
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20:59:46 <zzo38> moony: No. You need not add me.
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21:16:49 * Marcela_- se va a casar con jackiller_killex y los invita a la boda :-[
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22:59:25 <zzo38> moony: I would like to see the module if possible though.
23:02:29 <\oren\> suppose we made a language where syntax is not a tree
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23:04:28 <zzo38> Then what is it? Figure what possibilities they are.
23:05:05 <\oren\> specifically, it would be a general graph
23:05:40 <zzo38> It is what I thought too but what other possibility there is? There are a few stuff on esolang wiki based on graph
23:05:57 <Cale> もうマサラティを飲んでいる。
23:06:59 <Cale> \oren\: http://www.cas.mcmaster.ca/~kahl/HOPS/
23:10:09 <zzo38> One way to make a graph-based is with RDF, and I have thought of wanting to use RDF for a AST of Magic: the Gathering cards (although a graph isn't actually needed here, there are a few advantages provided by such thing).
23:13:30 <\oren\> jesus christ, emacs makes a separate process for each open file?!
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00:00:18 <int-e> \oren\: what do you mean?
00:01:11 <int-e> (or perhaps, how do you open a file?)
00:01:54 <int-e> and what kind of file is it; it's quite possible that an emacs mode would use a subprocess
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01:54:56 <HackEgo> relrod//A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force.
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02:11:36 <hppavilion2> I think HackEgo wisdom technically qualifies as a fully-fledged Wiki
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02:18:17 <boily> hppavilion2: hppavellon2. it even qualifies as a PDF!
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02:19:27 <quintopia> id make hackego give people snarky birthday greetings
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04:17:48 <zzo38> Do you know much of OpenGL? Is there a program to just render a picture using ARB shader programs? I could write such thing if I have the example to see how such thing is to work.
04:19:50 <zzo38> And what does fog coordinates do?
04:20:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Forte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50803&oldid=38245 * TehFlaminTaco * (+284)
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04:32:01 <Cale> zzo38: I haven't ever really experimented with it, but isn't the trick something like making a single triangle which is large enough to cover the screen?
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04:34:22 <zzo38> I should think to need a rectangle? Shouldn't the output be a rectangle picture, isn't it?
04:35:50 <Cale> You could use two triangles, but it's simpler to get away with just one which extends past the screen
04:36:46 <zzo38> O, OK. Does it automatically know not to render that part of the triangle?
04:36:50 <Cale> Like, it can be a right triangle whose two legs lie along the left side and bottom of the screen, and then the hypotenuse just barely touches the top right corner
04:37:18 <Cale> I don't know how anything actually works, I've just heard that this is a thing people do
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04:37:36 <Cale> Ed Kmett mentioned it to me, and I've seen it in a few other places.
04:38:34 <zzo38> Yes, actually after you mentioned, use just one which extends past the screen, I did think of that.
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05:46:51 <oerjan> hm the mail directory seems gone after the server upgrade
05:47:33 <oerjan> (not the server with the mail on, though, so i assume it's just nfs or whatever trouble)
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06:59:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Forte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50804&oldid=8767 * Oerjan * (+335) /* Quine */ new section
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09:53:49 <b_jonas> ``` c=bin/scheme; >$c echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec perl \'-ne/Scheme$/&&push@p,$p;$p=$_}{print$p[rand@p]\' share/mtg/allsets.txt' && chmod -c a+x "$c"
09:53:54 <HackEgo> mode of `bin/scheme' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
09:55:36 <Jafet> zzo38: shadertoy.com, among others
09:56:11 <oerjan> that scheme looks very functional
09:56:44 <Jafet> (shadertoy supports GLSL; I don't know if it runs ARB)
09:57:01 <b_jonas> In M:tG, because Scheme cards are oversized and have no mana cost, they have great card names, very suggestive ones that you can appreciate even if you don't look at the rest of the card and don't know any M:tG lore. Usually that sort of text can appear only in flavor text.
09:58:07 <HackEgo> Your Puny Minds Cannot Fathom
09:58:31 <b_jonas> There are 50 scheme cards, and `scheme prints the card name of a random one. There's probably less than a dozen non-scheme cards with card names so suggestive, mostly in the Kamigawa block, the Zendikar block, and Portal 3.
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18:55:02 <ais523> ugh, you know that situation where you want to do something utterly insane, and searching for advice about it just returns pages about the general subject that assume you don't know what you're doing?
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18:55:35 <ais523> in my case, what I want to do is to add a finalizer to an existing Java object retroactively, so that I can see what its final state looked like when it became unreferenced
18:55:52 <ais523> PhantomReference is very close to this, but intentionally doesn't give you any way to get at the object's final state
18:56:35 <ais523> it's clearly possible to do this within the JVM – the mechanism's used to implement actual finalizers, and there's a package-private class in the Java internals that handles it – but apparently no API
18:56:52 <ais523> anyone here have any advice?
18:57:09 <ais523> (there are some rather more insane things I want to do with the JVM too, but this one seems like the most viable)
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20:06:13 <wob_jonas> "<ais523> ugh, you know that situation where you want to do something utterly insane, and searching for advice about it just returns pages about the general subject that assume you don't know what you're doing?" => yes
20:06:26 <wob_jonas> I asked about something like that a few days ago:
20:07:30 <wob_jonas> In http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/17.01.20
20:07:49 <wob_jonas> "I have an interlaced video, and want to tell ffmpeg to throw away half of the frames, keeping only the even numbered frames with half the vertical resolution. But this seems impossible to search for, because an internet search only finds hits about how to re-encode interlaced videos but NOT throw away information from it.
20:07:57 <wob_jonas> That's the more typical use case, because most of the interlaced videos are low resolution, digitized from analog television or VHS, so it makes sense,"
20:08:44 <wob_jonas> ais523: also, my random observation from this morning:
20:08:53 <wob_jonas> In M:tG, because Scheme cards are oversized and have no mana cost, they have great card names, very suggestive ones that you can appreciate even if you don't look at the rest of the card and don't know any M:tG lore. Usually that sort of text can appear only in flavor text.
20:09:01 <wob_jonas> There are 50 scheme cards, and `scheme prints the card name of a random one. There's probably less than a dozen non-scheme cards with card names so suggestive, mostly in the Kamigawa block, the Zendikar block, and Portal 3.
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20:09:16 <HackEgo> Only Blood Ends Your Nightmares
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20:09:44 <ais523> we clearly need HackEgo to confuse `scheme and `! scheme sometimes
20:09:54 <ais523> or at least, we'd need that if the commands were more widely used
20:09:59 <ais523> (does `! scheme even exist?)
20:10:14 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/scheme: not found
20:12:09 <wob_jonas> are all interpreters supposed to be linked from ibin?
20:13:07 <ais523> ibin is basically for wrappers that handle all the stages in running a oneliner program
20:13:14 <wob_jonas> ``` sqlite3 <<<"select 'hello, world';"
20:13:18 <ais523> `! c printf("Hello, world!\n");
20:13:32 <ais523> although sometimes it's nonobvious what sort of input they want
20:14:01 <wob_jonas> ok, so there probably should be a wrapper for lua at least, since that's already installed
20:14:39 <wob_jonas> these should take the program from command line, right?
20:14:42 <ais523> sure, this is actually the original reason HackEgo was created
20:15:09 <ais523> (HackEgo's actual purpose became somewhat lost with all the rainbow welcomes and the like, but it was originally meant to be an EgoBot that anyone could update rather than just it owner)
20:15:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file ./interps/ghc/runghc
20:15:22 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file "./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp c"
20:15:32 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ \ export I_CMD="$0" \ export I_ARG="$1" \ export ARG_FILE="/tmp/input.$$" \ \ get_arg() { \ #if expr "$I_ARG" : "http://" > /dev/null \ #then \ # wget $WGET_OPTIONS "$I_ARG" -O "$ARG_FILE" \ #else \ printf '%s' "$I_ARG" > "$ARG_FILE" \ #fi \ } \ \ clean_arg() { \ rm -f "$ARG_FILE" \ } \ \ interp
20:15:51 <ais523> wob_jonas: replicate the common machinery that EgoBot used
20:16:05 <ais523> I don't think you'd have to use it in new interpreters
20:16:11 <ais523> although what language is that?
20:16:17 <ais523> it looks like a hellish mix of Bash and C
20:16:40 <wob_jonas> the functionname(){ is bash function definition syntax
20:16:54 <wob_jonas> note no parenthesis when calling it
20:17:05 <ais523> oh, I see, plenty of lines have been commented out
20:17:08 <wob_jonas> but note that it's sourced, not ran
20:17:09 <ais523> explaining the #if and #wget
20:17:46 <ais523> egobot would run programs from URLs
20:18:48 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -L lib/interp ibin/* # almost all of the interpreters use that library, these don't:
20:19:12 <wob_jonas> I should probably rather use it too, I'm just not sure what its interface is
20:19:45 <HackEgo> The ! or interp command calls various language interpreters transfered from old EgoBot. Try `url ibin/ for a list.
20:19:46 <wob_jonas> note that ibin/k appears to be a joke, not an interpreter of the apl-like k
20:20:44 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file perl
20:21:14 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ LANG="$1" \ echo >>"$2" \ \ case "$LANG" in \ c) \ HEAD='#include <stdio.h>\n#include <stdlib.h>\n#include <string.h>\n#include <sys/types.h>\n#include <unistd.h>\nint main(int argc, char **argv) {' \ TAIL='; return 0; }' \ EXT='c' \ GCC='gcc' \ FLAGS='-lm -std=gnu99' \ ;; \ \ c
20:21:54 <wob_jonas> I guess interp_file calls the program after it and adds the name of the file containing the source code an argument
20:22:04 <wob_jonas> then just interp_file lua should work
20:22:51 <wob_jonas> ``` c=ibin/lua; >$c echo $'#!/bin/sh\n. lib/interp\ninterp_file lua' && chmod -c a+x ibin/lua
20:22:53 <HackEgo> mode of `ibin/lua' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
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20:23:33 <ais523> I guess we should maybe add some golfing languages? I went and learned Jelly a while back, and Brachylog recently (although Brachylog's current version is fairly new and buggy)
20:24:06 <wob_jonas> there's already perl, does that count?
20:24:40 <wob_jonas> in the same sense as intercal tries to be esoteric
20:25:41 <ais523> perl's nowhere near as concise as Jelly
20:25:51 <ais523> I'm currently working on a golfing language of my own that aims to be even terser
20:26:02 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9
20:26:51 <ais523> Perl wasn't designed to be concise, though, but rather to work like natural languages
20:29:55 <ais523> but English is fairly golfable, so it's not surprising Perl is too
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21:31:25 <wob_jonas> It's all good, you just list like a minute
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21:57:16 <\oren\> why cant anyone spell fascism
21:58:07 <\oren\> facism would be discrimination on the basis of your face being stupid
22:06:25 <zzo38> If sprunge is over quota when is supposed to try again later?
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23:34:29 <boily> @tell oerjan chúc mừng năm mớerjan!
23:35:46 <boily> sống lâu trăm tuổint-e!
23:36:58 <boily> gung hei shachafaat coi!
23:45:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[D♭♭]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50805 * Enoua5 * (+424) Created page with "=== Pronunciation === D♭♭ is pronounced "Dee double flat" == Introduction == In music, there are a couple rare marks known as "Double flat" and "Double sharp". While a sha..."
23:46:41 <int-e> boily's speaking in tongues
23:47:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50806&oldid=50770 * Enoua5 * (+14)
23:48:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[D♭♭]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50807&oldid=50805 * Enoua5 * (+0) should probably have the intro first
23:48:25 <int-e> oh, year of the rooster
23:49:08 <int-e> that will be very exciting for chickens
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23:53:43 <boily> hppavellonne année du coq!
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23:56:43 <boily> re that last few edits on the wiki: that may be one of the worst joke languages we have...
23:57:47 <boily> (besides, there's a Unicode codepoint for that: 𝄫)
23:58:52 <DHeadshot> Dbb? It's barely a joke language. Dunno what it's doing on the wiki...
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00:03:52 <int-e> better than another brainfuck clone
00:05:57 <DHeadshot> Depends on the clone. Does COW count as a bf clone?
00:08:34 <int-e> (the additional 4 instructions aren't interesting; if anything they destroy some of BF's unique flavor. Also the resulting code is unreadable.)
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00:28:15 <ais523> boily: we /very/ rarely use [[Category:Shameful]]
00:28:33 <ais523> and I'm normally quick to argue with people who use it in places other than where it's really necessary
00:28:51 <ais523> but if someone added it to that article, I think I'd turn aside and not interfere
00:29:12 <ais523> even so, though, I don't think it's quite as bad as, say, ESME or Snack
00:31:32 <boily> ESME brings back repressed memories...
00:32:12 <ais523> apparently I capitalised it wrong, but I'm not sure it matters
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00:35:59 <HackEgo> overworld//The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games.
00:36:19 <HackEgo> nvd//nvd is what Taneb calls himself when he wants to feel professional.
00:37:09 <boily> being professional is unconfortable. cramped clothes that restrain movement freedom.
00:37:46 <ais523> boily: back when I was at school, my school uniform was basically a suit but didn't restrain freedom at all, really
00:37:49 <hppavilion2> Is there a standard symbol (or at least a standard name) for the following function (expressed in Python)?- f = lambda x, k: 0 if (x % k != 0) else f(x/k, k)+1
00:37:55 <ais523> why can't they make actual professional suits like that?
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00:38:27 <ais523> hppavilion2: "the number of times k divides x"; it's a builtin in Jelly
00:38:43 <ais523> which offers the alternative names "order", "multiplicity", and one other
00:38:45 <ais523> so maybe it's not that standard
00:39:22 <ais523> which isn't a commonly used symbol in other contexts
00:39:47 <int-e> (there'snow particular reason)
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00:41:02 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jelly exists, although it's just a "this is where you find more information"
00:41:12 <ais523> but it's famous for having a lot of builtins
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01:21:05 <boily> Jelly is very APLy...
01:22:30 <boily> no, I don't spread jokes like that.
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01:39:08 <ais523> boily: Jelly is a J derivative, and J's an APL derivative, so the APLishness is not surprising
01:39:29 <boily> that explains things.
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02:11:28 <zzo38> I managed to make a program it can execute a fragment shader program and write output on stdout, but there is two problem. One is that it results 8-bit precision and I cannot figure out how to make 16-bit precision, other is that it creates a window on the screen, even if I do not need it; if I don't display the window then nothing else works.
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04:31:11 <\oren\> TIL the pound symbol is a stylized L with a stroke
04:36:44 <\oren\> I had thought it was a stylized E
04:41:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sunjay * New user account
04:45:35 <pikhq> It's... Literally short for "libra".
04:48:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50808&oldid=50801 * Sunjay * (+190)
04:48:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50809&oldid=49627 * Sunjay * (+76) /* if (x) { code } */
04:53:24 <\oren\> pikhq: libra, as in the scales?
04:59:19 <zzo38> Is there a such thing as "name table texture" in OpenGL?
05:02:30 <pikhq> \oren\: Well, strictly "libra" as in the Roman unit of mass.
05:02:53 <zzo38> O, it is a Roman unit of weight? I didn't know that?
05:15:26 <\oren\> "Historically, £1 worth of silver coins were a troy pound in weight; in August 2016 this amount of silver was worth approximately £170 sterling."
05:17:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hsorenson * New user account
05:23:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50810&oldid=50808 * Hsorenson * (+250)
05:23:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hsorenson]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50811 * Hsorenson * (+195) Created page with "A GNU and FOSS junkie who also programs. I like making experimental things, some of which are programming languages to some definition. '''Links: ''' [https://github.com/..."
05:40:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hsorenson]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50812&oldid=50811 * Hsorenson * (+70)
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07:30:25 <lambdabot> boily said 7h 55m 55s ago: chúc mừng năm mớerjan!
07:31:47 <oerjan> @tell boily bood mornily!
07:44:20 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> (HackEgo's actual purpose became somewhat lost with all the rainbow welcomes and the like, but it was originally meant to be an EgoBot that anyone could update rather than just it owner) <-- i think it got lost because it lacks so many of EgoBot's features (even after the ibin/ transfer), so people never bothered using it for the same things.
07:46:11 <oerjan> @tell ais523 basically, if it had _really_ been a drop-in replacement from the start, i think things would have turned out different.
07:47:19 <oerjan> myname: EgoBot used to be the main bot of this channel. it was mainly an interpreter for heaps of esolangs, but not as extensible as HackEgo
07:48:16 <pikhq> It also tended to get subtly broken on a whim.
07:48:32 * oerjan has forgotten about that.
07:50:22 <oerjan> many of the languages have been transfered to HackEgo's ibin/ directory, but the surrounding framework is partly missing.
07:51:12 <oerjan> (e.g. we can't run things from the web. and the userinterps that was what extensibility EgoBot allowed, did not get transferred.)
07:53:04 <HackEgo> Can't open hi: No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/slashes line 7.
07:54:24 <oerjan> it is awkward to create commands that work with _both_ HackEgo's one-liner assumption and EgoBot's whole-file assumption.
07:55:45 <oerjan> @tell ais523 and the impedance mismatch between the systems is so big that no one has dared to try to unify them properly.
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08:38:26 <HackEgo> [U+1D12B MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT]
09:02:26 <HackEgo> [U+022F LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DOT ABOVE]
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09:55:23 <ais523> does anyone here know of a filesystem that supports bignum-sized sparse files?
09:55:51 <ais523> i.e. the file itself can be almost arbitrarily large, but contains only a small number of nonzero bytes (which are recorded via their value and position in the file0
10:00:27 <ais523> on a related note, what does Unary do with characters in the program that aren't '0'?
10:02:23 <^v> ais523, bignum would be pointless for keeping track of files
10:03:29 <^v> 256 bits is enough to count every particle in the universe
10:03:29 <ais523> not really, sparse files are useful (and nothing's stopping them being way bigger than your disk), so why not arbitrarily large ones?
10:05:34 <ais523> I just created a 2.2 terabyte file on a 50 gigabyte partition, it takes up less than one kilobyte on disk
10:05:35 <oerjan> next up: sparse bignum
10:05:47 <ais523> oerjan: that doesn't even seem entirely useless
10:05:50 <^v> because there is not enough information in the world to store that information
10:06:03 <ais523> ^v: you're missing the point; not every byte stores information
10:06:13 <ais523> the file is very compressible
10:06:15 <oerjan> ais523: and then you combine the two hth
10:06:37 <ais523> oerjan: aren't most of the forms of large primes that we have efficient tests for sparse bignums?
10:06:38 <^v> even with 128 bit pointers you will still never have collisions ever
10:07:18 <ais523> ^v: well, I'm mostly thinking of this in terms of writing a Unary interpreter (or a variant that uses '\0' rather than '0')
10:07:23 <ais523> the question is, how do you store the programs?
10:10:09 <oerjan> well this is obviously possible, it's just a question of whether anything does it
10:10:31 <oerjan> (which i'm not the right to answer)
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11:00:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ahto * New user account
11:02:31 <wob_jonas> <ais523> does anyone here know of a filesystem that supports bignum-sized sparse files? => whoa... that would be strange. you'd have to design the API very carefully so that you don't run into the problems you'd have if you eg. allowed pathname components longer than 255 bytes (or 255 utf16 units), so you can get stuck with a file on the file syste
11:02:31 <wob_jonas> m that you can't even delete because you don't have enough memory to store its filename
11:03:03 <wob_jonas> you'd need a newer version of stat that you can call in such a way that it doesn't return the size of the file, in case the file size is so large the stat would fail because it can't load it into memory
11:03:05 <^v> wob_jonas, wat
11:03:11 <ais523> well, if you don't allow bignum-sized filenames, if something goes badly wrong you at least have the option of deleting the file
11:03:19 <ais523> I agree that stat would be a problem, though
11:03:36 <wob_jonas> ^v: on unix, you can't have filenames longer than 255 bytes long. you can have pathnames longer than that, but you can recurse into directories without using a full pathname.
11:04:09 <^v> i know but bignum sux
11:04:54 <wob_jonas> on windows, the situation is somewhat similar, filenames can't be longer than 255 bytes long, although they do also put a limit on pathnames, which must be shorter than about like 32k or 64k utf16 units, I don't know which one.
11:05:18 <wob_jonas> I *think* Hurd allows arbitrarily long filenames, but I'm not sure.
11:05:55 <^v> yeah lets strcmp a 1TB file name
11:07:04 <wob_jonas> The POSIX API is designed so that you could use it on a system where filenames can be, say, up to 4096 bytes long, or, say, use the full filename encoded in utf8 on windows filesystems; but the unix ABI on current architectures locks down the filenames to 255 bytes because there's an uint8 field for pathname length in the data that getdents and sim
11:07:48 <wob_jonas> As a result, linux has some dirty parts for what to do when a windows file system is mounted and the filename is too long for unix.
11:09:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50813&oldid=50810 * Ahto * (+828) Fuck you. - Ahto
11:10:27 <wob_jonas> ais523: anyway, you could try to implement something like this using a table in a database keyed by bignums, with an index that lets you find the right chunk, but I haven't heard of anything like this already existing.
11:11:10 <ais523> that latest introduction is hilarious
11:11:28 <wob_jonas> I am personally not really fond of sparse files. They should continue to exist for compatibility, but I think it might have been better if they hadn't been invented back in the ancient unix days.
11:11:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Prelude]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50814&oldid=41872 * Ahto * (+2) s/column/line/ because 'line' doesn't make any sense.
11:13:03 <int-e> fully justified (i.e., it deserves the explanation that we have very few users and comparatively many spammers that have found ways to solve the easier captchas...)
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11:36:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Ahto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50815 * Int-e * (+518) Created page with "Regarding those hoops, they truly are annoying. Thanks for persevering! The measures evolved over time, as spammers learned to circumvent the simpler measures. Please take int..."
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12:36:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Forte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50816&oldid=50804 * Keymaker * (+194) /* Quine */
12:43:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Forte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50817&oldid=50816 * Ais523 * (+502) /* Quine */ it probably comes from PPCG
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13:08:17 <HackEgo> test//test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
13:09:47 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5h 37m 59s ago: bood mornily!
13:10:09 <boily> @tell oerjan boerjan matin!
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14:01:06 <HackEgo> jonathan hoag//Hoag is an art critic.
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14:02:19 <HackEgo> long//Long is the Chinese word for dragon.
14:02:40 <HackEgo> erlang//Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability.
14:03:00 <int-e> Live, long, and prosper?
14:03:07 <boily> Rabbits are made out of erlangs...
14:03:29 <boily> Phantom_Helloover, int-ello.
14:03:42 * boily lightly thwack int-e. 0.5 FP.
14:04:05 <boily> aren't channels just message passing, so stuff that go through them isn't global?
14:04:11 <HackEgo> cut elimination//The cut-elimination theorem states that any Prolog program written using the cut operator ! can be rewritten without using that operator.
14:04:12 * int-e does a sommersault
14:04:37 <boily> Prolog and Erlang this morning, oh my...
14:04:47 <boily> fungot: have you disturbed the RNG lately?
14:04:47 <fungot> boily: was going to run out
14:06:11 <Phantom_Hoover> ok so honestly, i get the impression that the abstractions of laziness and pure functionality in haskell are leaky as fuck and that you end up having to deal with this to write a lot of code in it
14:06:38 <int-e> fungot: be careful, there's light out there and where there's light there are shadows
14:06:38 <fungot> int-e: it has this weird name and then the operator; sisc evaluates operands right to left.
14:07:12 <int-e> . o O ( let's just hope that nobody takes this as inspiration for a new esolang? )
14:07:54 <int-e> . o O ( Or maybe this will be the first esolang invented by fungot. )
14:07:55 <fungot> int-e: so when they were said/ written, which time zone they refer to the variables, and all of the
14:08:08 <int-e> it's a good start anyway.
14:08:33 <boily> part of the *ISC family! 23 essential nutrients! daily fnord requirement!
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14:50:06 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
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16:24:31 <wob_jonas> int-e: you don't need a whole language for that, just a macro in an existing language
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16:35:18 <\oren\> Is using the word "alas" against wikipedia style?
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17:08:51 <lynn> `? ijustneedtheconfusedsmileyface
17:08:52 <HackEgo> ijustneedtheconfusedsmileyface? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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17:23:05 <\oren\> ส็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็_(ツ)_ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้
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17:49:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Leo * New user account
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17:51:51 <lambdabot> boily said 4h 41m 41s ago: boerjan matin!
17:53:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50818&oldid=50813 * Leo * (+248) /* Introductions */
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18:22:42 <izabera> trump: the less immigrants we let in, the better
18:22:48 <izabera> trump: shhh, don't call me that in public yet
18:24:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Campfire]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50819 * Leo * (+3928) Created page with "Campfire: an esoteric programming language which is just a heap of branches - and you'll want to set them on fire. https://github.com/barbuz/campfire/ ==Introduction== We all..."
18:25:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50820&oldid=50782 * Leo * (+15) /* C */ Added Campfire
18:25:43 <oerjan> finally an esolang that invites us to burn it
18:26:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Campfire]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50821&oldid=50819 * Leo * (-35)
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18:42:58 * zgrep brings the kerosene
18:46:15 <oerjan> `learn The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
18:46:23 <HackEgo> Learned '`word': The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
18:47:24 <HackEgo> «wisdom/`word» -> «wisdom/`words»
18:47:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: forwards: not found
18:48:14 <zgrep> Far words to go, "o" got forwards.
18:49:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/whoops
18:49:12 <izabera> Pastronella Gattrovezzi sounds like a fake italian name
18:50:25 <oerjan> the joke is that `words creates fake words
18:50:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: name: not found
18:50:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: names: not found
18:51:00 <zgrep> No, `word made pole.
18:51:10 <zgrep> Oh, it did. Ignore me.
18:51:25 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $VAR1 = { \ 'qz' => { \ 'e' => 1, \ 'k' => 1, \ 'a' => 1, \ ' ' => 9, \ 'i' => 1, \ 'o' => 2 \ }, \ 'sp' => { \ 'w' => 9, \ 'r' =>
18:51:37 <oerjan> there are two different mechanisms
18:51:47 <izabera> readability level over 9000
18:52:03 <oerjan> izabera: well it doesn't always know to avoid the real ones
18:52:24 <oerjan> incidentally, finding a short finnish name that was actually fake was quite hard
18:52:49 <HackEgo> syncharmfl frf wan cal all rauny yomina mak inht kau jili quate unskindi sppelanelung ebsta dvolgiti abren poning dia persabull
18:53:13 <HackEgo> sprollega diaste pare godero sciano ragosci sostireste disti cammo continui libero calvaste amo penare ossimo manato costiranno strapi scariate accopria
18:53:32 <zgrep> `words --russian 20
18:53:34 <HackEgo> стараввин готов нергаева ылановскомъ недержешя тальн часномигранч канскую пообремецкихъпослента навское высволюбнейсть паруськийским провскосит непресвыя энн оправенной асовек арени
18:53:36 <izabera> continui libero amo penare are real words
18:54:26 <oerjan> izabera: are you saying i should put some real names in my designer list
18:54:29 <izabera> disti too but it's very old
18:54:45 <HackEgo> sprøys avløsning uteheidola navnenesulerer blankerettingene utstinsialen daternet bedøvenspilling fødene høgskunstna klindustrimatsbøl vatiska barneia hjeren eksporsøkontrakten gullregiende urerere tiltrenes feralisebolskum ekspriseoppsven
18:55:42 <oerjan> ok, i see 1 clearly real word and another possible one.
18:55:54 <oerjan> (avløsning and tiltrenes)
18:58:03 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/word
19:00:12 <izabera> what's that share/WordData/$mod ?
19:00:55 <HackEgo> Brazilian \ Bulgarian \ CanadianEnglishInsane \ Catalan \ Eng1M \ EngAll \ EngFiction \ EngGb \ EngUs \ Esolangs \ Finnish \ French \ Gaelic \ German \ GermanMedical \ Hebrew \ Irish \ Italian \ Manx \ Norwegian \ Ogerman \ Polish \ Portuguese \ Russian \ Spanish \ Swedish
19:01:13 <izabera> `url share/WordData/Italian
19:01:14 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/WordData/Italian
19:01:20 <oerjan> the models it is using to generate words with
19:01:39 <oerjan> `culprits share/WordData/Brazilian
19:02:17 <oerjan> i don't remember who actually added the system, but fizzie would be one major suspect
19:02:57 <oerjan> `file share/WordData/Brazilian
19:02:57 <HackEgo> share/WordData/Brazilian: perl Storable (v0.7) data (major 2) (minor 8)
19:03:51 <oerjan> i think `word is just a simple random FSA thing in comparison?
19:03:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/word
19:04:39 <oerjan> huh my browser cannot show that file
19:04:49 <HackEgo> bin/word: Perl script, ASCII text executable
19:05:02 <oerjan> there are several english options
19:05:07 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
19:05:19 <HackEgo> hat huanar traffengo wyboon yella deeplden purpukovskov furon yelon anno
19:05:29 <HackEgo> still genebina loodv taxson roing snug miri recto suggli ergy
19:05:57 <HackEgo> pcraffl yelo manima inkelvey cerce goh sgle teronderlasgrea insti sum
19:06:04 <oerjan> the english modes tend not to look very much like english :P
19:06:11 <HackEgo> enigma-2d zomb redcodermdromehot shelp 3d thine lentercal-2d suicide brain brainty y minimal fit hsq brainfinifu
19:06:25 <shachaf> those look a lot like esolangs tdh
19:06:34 <HackEgo> פעות אספקודש קרופ בראד יוחלפו מאחרוך םכנת ואעירא שוח פריה
19:07:11 <\oren\> is the hebrew option based on modern hebrew or ancient hebrew
19:07:37 <HackEgo> tentraish ortarnal hroopal coobey ard-vooie-hait malaghey slagh aahag cliagh keckerag bodjal moallyn scoil graih tree groe joneyder brooieitshagh criggad-vooid pontys
19:07:48 <zgrep> `words --finnish 20
19:07:49 <HackEgo> hauttujatk-karilla kimpänään uskaisentuva aggressa tiuheellanne mienneettavaksesi kaamillesi kulkeissakkumien salleni leile yksimme perinteknistä aikuunsa hihankinen vastansa ryhmitaan läpukeavien hekstimeävillä koonaan suuntistani
19:07:57 <\oren\> iirc the difference is that modern hebrew has a lot of loanwords from german and polish and such
19:10:26 <oerjan> redcodermdromehot sounds like the hot new esolang
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19:15:20 <HackEgo> iag 1cnis betana tur divzeros 3d dog iintercal musicasmith lolambdamd pointwisepolynome unbabtized lic kolmogo toasm villgol jot this=tham mibblliardbal smu
19:22:24 <HackEgo> U+1EF5 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DOT BELOW \ UTF-8: e1 bb b5 UTF-16BE: 1ef5 Decimal: ỵ \ ỵ (Ỵ) \ Uppercase: U+1EF4 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0079 0323
19:22:38 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s;ild;&, Zwübert von Pfüniger;
19:22:41 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfüniger, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:24:35 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,ün,öll,
19:24:38 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:27:20 <oerjan> my first attempt was Heiður, which is alas real.
19:33:19 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s;bik;&, Fnörður Hljofsson;
19:33:21 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljofsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:34:57 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s;offs;óffs;
19:34:58 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljofsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:36:25 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s;ofss;ófss;
19:36:27 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Siwovich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:43:56 <HackEgo> nadomycie aerozmiększaco uście rytycznymi karagnesem niepolacku niemzonącymi ostawiały stronderowa anego
19:44:42 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,Siw,Strondero,
19:44:44 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderoovich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:45:01 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderovich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:45:45 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,vich,wich,
19:45:47 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
19:45:54 <oerjan> forgot the thing that was wrong
19:51:30 <\oren\> Bick Noffrey sounds american
19:52:19 <\oren\> maybe british... Bick, though
19:52:21 <oerjan> it was definitely meant to be the english-sounding one, anyway.
19:52:51 <oerjan> yeah Bick is possibly the word i'm least satisfied with
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20:12:40 <oerjan> \oren\: i am starting to think the problem is that american naming is so crazy you cannot make a fake british-looking name that isn't a real american one hth
21:26:02 <oerjan> <\oren\> Is using the word "alas" against wikipedia style? <-- doesn't sound NPOV hth
21:30:25 <shachaf> ah, i suppose there is https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lass
21:32:12 <shachaf> sco. is the best wikipedia
21:33:06 <shachaf> Tha term is ailsae uised doon tha northeast coast o Ingland, in Northumberland an tha east o Yorkshire, but wi varied spellins an pronunciation.
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22:44:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stones]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50822&oldid=50220 * Zackh * (-273) update information
22:45:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stones]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50823&oldid=50822 * Zackh * (+54)
22:46:10 <quintopia> is 1 second per second too slow for you?
22:46:34 <int-e> but there's not much I can do about it.
22:47:41 <quintopia> get yourself some NZT. speed up your brain.
22:47:53 <lambdabot> KATL 282152Z 25010KT 10SM FEW250 11/M09 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP149 T01111094
22:47:58 <lambdabot> EGLL 282220Z AUTO 22010KT 9999 NCD 04/03 Q1014
22:47:59 <lambdabot> CYUL 282229Z 24007KT 5SM -SN FEW010 OVC033 M00/M02 A2949 RMK SF1SC8 SF TR SLP990
22:48:09 <lambdabot> LOWI 282220Z AUTO 23002KT 9999 FEW250 M05/M06 Q1023
22:48:20 <lambdabot> BIRK 282200Z 08004KT CAVOK M03/M08 Q1003 R01/990159
22:49:37 <int-e> well at least it's dry
22:49:54 <boily> it's very cowy today.
22:50:24 <int-e> has the scow lost its lisp?
22:50:25 <boily> smooth weekend, currently google hangouting to organize a mysterious tile shuffling tournament...
22:53:30 <HackEgo> English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
22:54:13 <int-e> . o O ( However, its meaning is always obvious in context. )
22:54:41 <boily> quintopia: it involves shifty people doing silent stuff around tables, and exchanges of sticks.
22:59:13 <HackEgo> A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees.
23:00:02 <int-e> boily: Would that be degrees Kelvin or Rankine? ;-)
23:01:41 <int-e> `` ls -la wisdom/cow
23:01:43 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 54 Oct 28 18:38 wisdom/cow
23:09:24 <Phantom_Hoover> hey fizzie i'm trying to run fungot on another network and my success has been... limited
23:09:24 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: pretty much. if it's not correct to refer to it
23:11:56 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: hmm, does it run at all (i.e. on freenode?)
23:13:28 <int-e> (I seem to recall I had trouble with interpreter versions... in the end I used cfunge-0.3.3
23:15:35 <int-e> https://sourceforge.net/projects/cfunge/files/cfunge/ presumably
23:18:05 <int-e> yes, it does. tarball checksum is ced25c1688d5e46722b6e78677fa5115ed5c2d8f if that makes you feel any better
23:22:58 <Phantom_Hoover> like i made some progress, downgrading cfunge made it spit out 'unable to connect' and then when i corrected the freenode IP/port to the ones that hexchat says i'm currently connected to that went away
23:22:59 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: okay, are you running the fungot-load-freenode.b98? if you changed the nick, did you also make sure that the < is still aligned with the v above?
23:22:59 <fungot> int-e: here is an example of how it works
23:23:32 <int-e> (I'm pretty sure I tripped over that)
23:24:24 <int-e> oh, 192.186.157.43 doesn't work, that may be a problem ;-)
23:25:03 <int-e> 195.148.124.79 works for me (tm)
23:25:21 <int-e> (host chat.freenode.org)
23:27:14 -!- fnordbot has joined.
23:27:20 <fnordbot> int-e: the great day of the answer, but even so they tried it out with me?" said ford, " you reckon, what's the problem? " ford," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. " i am majikthise! you home wreckers!" " why," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, w
23:27:27 <fnordbot> int-e: did you think of that, earthman," he said to a small lump of green and blue." a thought. arthur lolled. a million-gallon vat of custard? a sudden silence afterwards." " a what? far out in the dordellis wars, and the megafreighters had to be equipped with the most fantastic. in a few seconds," he continued, " you just let the machines began to sink downward and to everyone else out there, the secret. a galactic civilizati
23:27:32 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
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23:28:43 <int-e> (I also had trouble remembering how to join a channel: /msg fnordbot ^raw JOIN #esoteric ... make sure you're the owner)
23:32:43 <int-e> I got 195.148.124.79 by selecting an IP at random from the output of `host chat.freenode.org`.
23:34:50 <int-e> (it's typically not installed by default; it's "standard" in the same sense that bind is the standard DNS server)
23:35:43 <Phantom_Hoover> uuuugh it connects to the other server but it uses some sort of different PING/PONG system to freenode so it just disconnects
23:38:44 <int-e> I've heard rumors about such servers. Apparently they send a PING on connect and ignore all commands that come before the corresponding PONG.
23:39:27 <Phantom_Hoover> well shit, i can't exactly rewrite fungot to deal with that
23:39:28 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: v and f: v v is a nilpotent homomorphism. then fn 0, and is clumsy in a repl using it, and petri couldn't give a shit
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23:44:03 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: you can always connect via an IRC bouncer (like znc ... I tried it once for lambdabot, it wasn't too hard to set up, but I'm not currently using it)
23:44:03 <int-e> in fact that should make it more stable because the bouncer can take care of reconnecting to the network... something that fungot doesn't handle well (i.e., at all).
23:44:03 <int-e> 00:42:07 CTCP PING reply from int-e: 40.429 seconds
23:44:04 <fungot> int-e: hows the esoteric langs going? :) i've played with ruby a little...
23:46:01 <int-e> fungot: I'm still waiting for diamond
23:46:01 <fungot> int-e: you could do a quicksort with two queues...
23:46:21 <int-e> fungot: and incur the wrath of the quicksort-is-only-fast-with-arrays crowd.
23:46:22 <fungot> int-e: have you looked for it yesterday, and i did, i think that's more a question of key invariance.)
23:56:14 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, znc seems very reluctant to let me make an account with no password
23:58:24 <int-e> hmm, makes sense given its primary purpose. I had not considered that.
00:00:11 <int-e> Hmm, unrelated, the znc folks have a wiki that also ha(s|d) a spam problem... they're using people for account creation: "To create new wiki account, please join us on #znc at freenode and ask admins to create a wiki account for you. You can say thanks to spambots for this inconvenience."
00:02:21 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: see https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50813&oldid=50810 for context.
00:04:49 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, that captcha needs work though because it's just displaying '<code>9482052842>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@</code>'
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00:34:04 <fizzie> I think I'll just remove the tags.
00:34:34 <fizzie> The <a href="...">s in the CAPTCHA questions/answers worked just fine, but maybe it's got a whitelist of tags or something.
00:35:01 <fizzie> There's a related problem in that it seems likely to line-wrap at the '-' as well.
00:36:18 <fizzie> I removed the <code>s.
00:37:59 <int-e> true, but without giving context.
00:46:10 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, i don't know what i expected but i asked in #znc if i could turn off password authentication and they just asked me why i was doing anything so stupid, obviously znc is the perfect client and therefore anything it doesn't do is platonically incorrect
00:48:14 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: they're assuming that you want to use it as a bouncer (to connect from remotely), rather something that only listens on 127.0.0.1 to be used by a local program.
00:48:27 <HackEgo> zerg//We'll try to think of an entry here, but we don't want to rush it.
00:48:30 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: well, I'm assuming, etc.
00:48:48 <Phantom_Hoover> but i said at the start 'i have good reasons for this, i'm not crazy'!
00:51:26 <int-e> now if I actually knew Befunge I could sneak a PASS command in after 'vp11++2*93g11P0g11"USER fungot * * :fungot-0.1"<' in the fungot.b98 file...
00:51:26 <fungot> int-e: or the execution of the gc with the mutator.
00:52:08 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean if you're going to put a PASS command in then you might as well fix the PONG issue instead
00:52:33 <Phantom_Hoover> it's the classic instance of a solution becoming a bigger pain than the original problem
00:52:38 <int-e> well, that's a bit harder because the PONG has to copy a string from the PING, while the PASS can be completely static.
00:56:09 <int-e> so... a broken IRC server, an opinionated IRC bouncer... lots of fun.
01:01:24 <int-e> (I think this idea of expecting the PONG reply first is broken, because TCP is asynchronous. But you can make the excuse that the PING request is included in the initial ACK package and therefore the client should see it the moment the connection is established... sigh. The IRC client protocol RFC says the PONG reply should be sent "as soon as possible", which I would read as allowing for some...
01:01:30 <int-e> ...commands to already be in the pipeline.)
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01:04:03 <fizzie> int-e: You don't have to copy anything from the input to provide a PONG.
01:04:09 <fizzie> The PONG reply parameter is not a copy of the input.
01:04:45 <fizzie> "The <server> parameter is the name of the entity who has responded to PING message and generated this message."
01:05:49 <fizzie> As a matter of fact, fungot has a fixed reply of "PONG :fungot" even if you change the nickname in the load file, and I don't think that has ever caused any problems.
01:05:49 <fungot> fizzie: i've never thing that thingie before it glows! note exclamation point. i'm a bit short on humor but am strong at siring." alan
01:06:01 <int-e> IME the reply to PING :fooo has to be PONG :fooo
01:06:19 <fizzie> If so, then that's just nonsense.
01:07:15 <int-e> (though it will depend on the server side, obviously)
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01:15:23 <Phantom_Hoover> RAW >>> :nova.esper.net 513 fungot :To connect type /QUOTE PONG FFFFFFFF175F71C6 <<<
01:15:24 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: shortest i've ever seen spam ( of the people whose consciousness continued through the path that isn't a list. can you post an example
01:17:00 <fizzie> I guess they think a PING message is an echo request.
01:18:17 <int-e> okay, so they *do* check the PONG response string.
01:19:32 <int-e> received: PING :4C517724; trying to reply PONG :1 results in :nova.esper.net 513 qwerty :To connect type /QUOTE PONG 4C517724, and PONG :4C517724 works.
01:21:05 <fizzie> Looks like everybody just makes it reply with a copy of the PING message parameters.
01:21:12 <fizzie> Even though I think that's unambiguously wrong.
01:21:44 <Phantom_Hoover> so is NOTICE pinging everyone in the channel but that's a thing too
01:24:44 <fizzie> Looks like IRC servers respond to client PINGs that way as well. Sad.
01:25:12 <int-e> I think the single parameter PING/PONG case is fairly clear, if you receive PING foo.bar.baz then you're supposed to reply to foo.bar.baz, which means you need to use PONG foo.bar.baz, as I read it... the abuse is that servers use strings that are not actually server names.
01:25:31 <fizzie> I don't think you're supposed to reply that.
01:26:01 <fizzie> The spec says "the name of the entity who has responded to PING message and generated this message".
01:26:10 <fizzie> That's definitely not the server that sent the *ping*.
01:28:29 <fizzie> (It's a bit of a shame the only example is very server-to-server-oriented.)
01:30:57 <int-e> hmm, okay, so nobody's implementing the specification correctly.
01:31:15 <fizzie> That seems to be the case.
01:31:28 <int-e> (it really does not help though that the specification uses a server-server connection as an example; who cares about that?)
01:41:13 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't think anyone anywhere does it right, with the possible exception of this one university homework assignment, which seemed to imply the students were supposed to do it right.
01:41:17 <fizzie> I should probably just make fungot do it wrong the de-facto right way, but that feels demotivating.
01:41:17 <fungot> fizzie: i have a lot of work. however, i can type pretty much anything with it,
01:45:58 <int-e> oh there've been fights over this 18 years ago. http://web.irc.org/mla/ircd-users/1999/msg00098.html
01:47:55 <int-e> (which of course is about the server's behavior)
01:48:53 <int-e> And to make things even more confusing, the "right" reply to PING foo.bar.baz fungot appears to be PONG fungot foo.bar.baz
01:48:53 <fungot> int-e: and very possible. running without a monitor. there's a fine line
02:25:52 <\oren\> argh why can't I get talkd to work
02:26:28 <\oren\> I have to use irc instead even though we're logged into the same server
02:38:18 <boily> Test Driven Deployment: you test after deployment to check that everything works. The most reliable way to find bugs!
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02:40:28 <HackEgo> tetris//Tetris is where Soviet Russia was invented. Taneb was not present although Triangle and Robert were.
02:40:41 <HackEgo> brainf**k//There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck.
02:40:50 <HackEgo> recursion//You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
02:41:03 <HackEgo> phnglui//This wisdom existed only to test a command, but then it was deleted.
02:41:27 <HackEgo> second wisdom//The second wisdom is that wisdom can never be complete or consistent.
02:41:57 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
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02:47:35 <boily> Tetris is one hell of a drug. BF is integral to a healthy breakfast. Recursivity is turtlish. I'a i'a Cthulhu Fungot. Wisdom is the road to Enlightenment. Øøøøøøøøø ♪
02:49:59 <HackEgo> octarine//Octarine is a black variety of peach, from which the color is named.
02:50:38 <boily> my family hates peach yoghurt and I don't know why.
02:50:45 <HackEgo> gnimmargorp//"Gnimmargorp" er algeng stafsetningarvilla af "grimmargorp".
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04:24:05 <\oren\> how is your idea going
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05:35:33 <\oren\> apparently fortran 90 is all the rage with physicists
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05:39:25 <pikhq> I don't think I'm quite a furry.
05:40:06 <\oren\> I aint no furry just becasue I have a moustache
05:41:38 <Perenelle> That feel when you have brain cancer stemming from your retinal blastoma in your left eye
05:51:11 <\oren\> yikes, hope you've got free helthcare
05:52:35 <Perenelle> I'm a physician I have to pay up front
05:53:07 <Perenelle> I use Washington state medical but I different sub branch the premiums are good the coverage covers cancer
06:29:57 <zzo38> I don't even know what is the percentage of such thing, such as, what percentage of everyone in here is a furry, what percentage is a programmer, and what percentage is someone with a moustache, and then also the combination the percentage too. Possibly it is not quite known and may not ever be known, but the assumption to be programmer is probably valid; everyone or nearly everyone on here probably can computer programming at least.
06:32:32 <zzo38> Is there a such thing as "name table texture" in OpenGL?
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10:06:27 <HackEgo> A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees.
10:08:13 <oerjan> `slwd cow//s,[.], Celsius.,
10:08:17 <HackEgo> cow//A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees Celsius.
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10:23:23 <oerjan> `learn Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
10:23:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'something': Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
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10:26:45 <shachaf> "Lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy Jane, she wants a drink of water so she waits and waits and waits and waits and waits for it to rain."
10:26:54 <shachaf> too lazy to add proper slashes to that one
10:26:55 <oerjan> `learn I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM
10:26:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'i': I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM
10:32:04 <oerjan> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> but i said at the start 'i have good reasons for this, i'm not crazy'!
10:32:06 <HackEgo> 1307) <Phantom_Hoover> but i said at the start 'i have good reasons for this, i'm not crazy'!
10:44:31 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access -: No such file or directory \ bin/widsom
10:44:36 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Oct 28 18:37 bin/widsom -> wisdom
10:44:59 <HackEgo> 8635:2016-06-28 <izaber̈a> ` ln -s wisdom bin/widsom
10:48:10 <int-e> it's a perfectly fine directory.
10:48:38 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
10:49:14 <oerjan> i'm guessing it's /tmp so that programs don't spew configuration file crap into the actual useful directory.
10:49:51 <oerjan> or perhaps .bashrc files and the like
10:50:52 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `poweroff: not found
10:50:54 <fizzie> Every command is executed in a fresh boot anyway, so even if it did work, it'd be a bit pointless.
10:51:21 <lezsakdomi> Then umlbox stands for a VIRTUAL box :)
10:51:58 <int-e> I also suspect the whole setup predates the poweroff command.
10:52:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ping: not found
10:52:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ping: not found
10:52:24 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: wrong syntax
10:52:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found
10:52:34 <int-e> But maybe I just discovered it very late.
10:52:38 <oerjan> you need the space after ``
10:53:13 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: busybox: command not found
10:53:24 <fizzie> oerjan: You looked up `pong.
10:53:56 <HackEgo> ping is /hackenv/bin/ping \ ping is /bin/ping
10:54:09 <lezsakdomi> What is the difference between ` and `` ?
10:54:13 <oerjan> `` /bin/ping google.com -c 10
10:54:14 <HackEgo> ping: unknown host google.com
10:54:22 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
10:54:44 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: `command gives the entire rest of the line to command as a _single_ argument
10:54:44 <int-e> lezsakdomi: ` is built in; `` invokes that script
10:55:15 <HackEgo> cat: ``: No such file or directory
10:55:27 <HackEgo> cat: ?: No such file or directory
10:55:40 <fizzie> You need to be looking in bin/.
10:55:44 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
10:55:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F
10:56:02 <fizzie> And there is actually a bin/``, but you'd invoke that as ```.
10:56:06 <int-e> hey it does URL encoding :)
10:56:22 <fizzie> I can never remember what ``` does differently, something involving locales.
10:56:36 <HackEgo> cat: bin/bin: No such file or directory
10:56:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
10:56:45 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
10:57:04 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
10:57:16 <HackEgo> real: 0m1.083s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.000s
10:57:20 <HackEgo> \ real0m1.023s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s
10:58:14 <lezsakdomi> Aaand is umlbox easy to use and secure?
10:58:35 <fizzie> "Not really" and "who knows", I suspect.
10:58:41 <int-e> given that docker is impossible to secure?
11:00:53 <oerjan> afaik no one's broken _out_ of HackEgo's sandbox yet, but i'm not sure anyone's been seriously trying.
11:01:00 <int-e> of course nowadays even the-octopus-that-is-replacing-init-also-known-as-systemd is insecure.
11:01:07 <oerjan> although there have been some nasty bugs.
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11:02:21 <int-e> Okay, my prejudice was justified: docker had a severe vulnerability just this month: https://threatpost.com/docker-patches-container-escape-vulnerability/123161/
11:04:18 <oerjan> hm how would you break into HackEgo? i think going through the wiki might be simplest :P
11:04:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:04:29 <oerjan> (it's on the same server)
11:04:37 <HackEgo> warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? \ See http://gitorious.org/procps/procps/blobs/master/Documentation/FAQ \ USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 11:04 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 11:04 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0
11:05:09 <lezsakdomi> Ok, I'm going to check that :) (how to break in)
11:05:40 <oerjan> (that would require actually breaking into mediawiki, but it's so huge it has to be vulnerable)
11:06:26 <lezsakdomi> So they run on the same server. Ooookaaay....
11:07:04 <oerjan> i shouldn't be encouraging this. HackEgo is meant to be played with, the wiki isn't...
11:07:42 <oerjan> although fizzie claims to do backups.
11:07:48 <int-e> and even for HackEgo, keep it playful.
11:08:06 <int-e> I seriously hope *somebody* is keeping backups.
11:08:12 <int-e> given CaC's track record
11:08:29 <int-e> (I've lost two VMs now)
11:08:31 <lezsakdomi> Of course, i wont broke anything, just break in or out :)
11:09:59 <fizzie> oerjan: I do do weekly backups.
11:10:18 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
11:10:19 <fizzie> oerjan: I believe there's a few people periodically downloading the public archive as well, though that only has articles, not accounts.
11:10:27 <int-e> HackEgo is a multibot... :P
11:10:38 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
11:10:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found
11:11:30 <HackEgo> hackego:HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! \ Binary file reflection matches \ wisdome:The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's
11:11:44 <HackEgo> 2/2:l of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere".
11:11:48 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
11:12:11 <fizzie> Making a home instance for testing was a little bit fiddly, I think.
11:13:20 <HackEgo> Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
11:13:28 <oerjan> `learn Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
11:13:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'source': Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
11:13:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:14:11 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:14:26 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl \ echo hi \ exec \ #!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed
11:15:12 <int-e> that didn't do what you wanted, I think
11:15:19 <int-e> `` echo /hackenv/bin/?
11:15:20 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/` /hackenv/bin/̊ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/! /hackenv/bin/? /hackenv/bin/¿ /hackenv/bin/' /hackenv/bin/" /hackenv/bin/( /hackenv/bin/@ /hackenv/bin/* /hackenv/bin/؟ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/1 /hackenv/bin/2 /hackenv/bin/5 /hackenv/bin/f /hackenv/bin/h /hackenv/bin/n /hackenv/bin/w
11:15:37 <fizzie> Yeah, it's all one-character commands.
11:15:40 <int-e> `` echo $(which ?)
11:15:41 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/` /hackenv/bin/̊ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/! /hackenv/bin/? /hackenv/bin/¿ /hackenv/bin/' /hackenv/bin/" /hackenv/bin/( /hackenv/bin/@ /hackenv/bin/* /hackenv/bin/؟ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/1 /hackenv/bin/2 /hackenv/bin/5 /hackenv/bin/f /hackenv/bin/h /hackenv/bin/n /hackenv/bin/w
11:15:42 <lezsakdomi> `` cat $(which ?) | nc termbin.com 9999
11:15:43 <HackEgo> termbin.com: forward host lookup failed: Host name lookup failure : No such file or directory
11:16:13 <oerjan> the ? doesn't expanded in bin/
11:16:45 <oerjan> although it's accidental that there's no single-char files in the top directory
11:16:46 <int-e> `` cat "$(which ?)"
11:16:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
11:17:03 <lezsakdomi> `` cat $(which ?) | nc 5.39.93.71 9999
11:17:04 <HackEgo> (UNKNOWN) [5.39.93.71] 9999 (?) : Network is unreachable
11:17:05 <int-e> oerjan: I think *that*'s the intended command.
11:17:14 <int-e> `` echo Hi | paste
11:17:17 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.14368
11:17:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.21704
11:17:40 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: HI: not found
11:17:43 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Hi: not found
11:17:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F
11:18:06 <int-e> but you could just browse http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/
11:18:08 <oerjan> ^ more efficient, points to the actual file
11:18:15 <int-e> oerjan: I already did that, it was lost.
11:18:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.24778
11:18:56 <oerjan> int-e: no, you used | paste, which doesn't do that
11:19:05 <int-e> oerjan: much earlier
11:19:28 <int-e> oerjan: 24 minutes ago
11:19:32 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....|$@.....@.......¨..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....Ä......Ä........ ............È......Èa.....Èa.....ø.......3........ ...........ð......ða.....ða..... ....... ................
11:19:34 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: it's the part you can change
11:20:00 <sdhand> `` cat /dev/urandom | paste
11:20:06 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/paste: line 12: 300 File size limit exceededcat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.311
11:20:26 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: the directory /hackenv and most of its subdirectories is kept in a Mercury repository
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12:38:53 <Taneb> Is there any esolang whose name is the empty string?
12:41:04 <Taneb> And how much would the wiki admins be annoyed if I try to make one
12:44:41 <shachaf> What about an esolang where properly saying its name involves deleting your entire line of IRC?
12:56:42 <int-e> Taneb: http://esolangs.org/wiki//// comes close in spirit, I think
12:59:01 <fizzie> We had to set a nginx configuration flag to make /// work.
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13:27:14 <HackEgo> wlcom//Hi! This is a chat about unusual programming tools. For additional info, visit our wiki: <http://bit.ly/C4TUY>. (For unusual things of a contrasting sort, try http://bit.ly/19k9nf8.)
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14:28:25 <HackEgo> kiices genont cenchos rédenti kudent réguli edige artaux oooccissoife pigon paux jana precípulemenl fungen fovit saising peignare cles reprîme erungenoy delli escer gst passervencé appéens
14:28:50 <wob_jonas> whoa... most of those don't even look plausible
14:29:06 <wob_jonas> why does it even try to put a í into a french word?
14:29:12 <boily> unless I'm deeply mistaken, none of them are real French words.
14:30:39 <wob_jonas> cles looks like it tries to be clés without the accent, and I Admit some of them look plausible: paux pigon reprîme
14:31:56 <HackEgo> trygges cividin läppe odlinkom kalen bel kapegordbehov sven öppning tuvandet rängare kavesseringar hävda lopporn ampuler hakan vans släcklades likatterusta psykompe flarnastling viskrus blottning karna häck
14:32:00 <HackEgo> sprach wächeiterzuserlan itcriphen maryngigenburt feileolon fach nideal capcs blöckelmitt einprob sprodustand cichtigt hemaschingenerfreuzbehalti ergester rillinsthandwighre quellen glau gementingungskom sutop moldfragebes ploteilbabytes schäftessneul allokalkbreichtve eberung dorgungs
14:32:21 <HackEgo> littigm ree malaster minte incorn lephalt prem aranu prov bilia hed bonio qing swansvillo invel fittlif ccmr opulcalateriani kale baren ret giln hypoli nomogl bicle
14:32:51 <wob_jonas> of the swedish, "sven" sounds good enough
14:33:54 <wob_jonas> ah look, frmo the French ones, "paux" turns out to be a real word, though rare
14:35:21 <wob_jonas> of the german, "sprach" is a real word
14:36:31 <wob_jonas> "Fach' is real too, apparently, but words didn't capitalize it
14:37:29 <myname> there is some bullshit in, though
14:37:41 <myname> cichtigt does not make any sense at all
14:37:47 <wob_jonas> the English one is strange. "kale" is a rela word, and "incorn" and "malaster" look plausible
14:37:55 <wob_jonas> but the rest doesn't look like english
14:38:02 <myname> or rillinstahandwidhre
14:38:12 <HackEgo> cerper macroopborne ekommediandossecer smensch prim howsky ganumediaslive subslate nilita travilh gareen home exid strasht had cetone bivilliny aneoa sulate zavar writate acyclou yand petpge tchnic
14:38:35 <wob_jonas> does it even care about what language we ask for?
14:39:07 <wob_jonas> "home" and "had" are real, "howsky" and "subslate" look reasonable
14:39:53 <wob_jonas> "subslate, sulate, cetone" sounds like he's trying to invent chemistry stuff
14:40:22 <myname> it reminds me of the noteslate
14:41:24 <wob_jonas> Guiston Degraîme is nice by the way
14:42:01 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
14:42:08 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
14:42:20 <HackEgo> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
14:43:02 <fizzie> Some of the Swedish was right. At least öppning, hakan.
14:43:06 <HackEgo> paintauti hyötäkäisi lujaansakunnisevista bortomammille kiinsä valaajentasi remukavalla tuoluvillänsä tunnisimpinaampaasta syvenyvisimaan
14:43:27 <fizzie> Well, that wasn't a super-successful run.
14:43:31 <wob_jonas> "<oerjan> [...] i am starting to think the problem is that american naming is so crazy you cannot make a fake british-looking name that isn't a real american one hth" hehe
14:43:33 <fizzie> `` words --finnish 10 # one more time
14:43:34 <HackEgo> palvamme kuluiminen komaltanissäättämäksee yhdyttämmiksi läheillanistä keroukkaisi varsaan sellensä haisin tyrmäämäkseen
14:44:10 <wob_jonas> oerjan: just prefix it with "Sir ", then it won't look American
14:44:11 <fizzie> I guess varsaan, tyrmäämäkseen are okay.
14:45:19 <boily> `learn Chicken have capital words. boily leaves them.
14:45:22 <HackEgo> Relearned 'chicken': Chicken have capital words. boily leaves them.
14:45:22 <fizzie> Oh, most of them look plausibly Finnish, style-wise, except those that fail the vowel harmony rules.
14:45:47 <wob_jonas> dunno, "yhd" at the start of the word pushes it for me
14:46:01 <fizzie> yhdessä = together, yhdistää = connect, and so on.
14:46:15 <wob_jonas> how do you pronounce the "hd" in that?
14:47:20 <fizzie> It's also an example of consonant gradation, I guess. yhteen -> yhdessä.
14:49:06 <HackEgo> proli pique ritautar gamenti gaufi ave fonnéen franparto attuaratenda deture manulle cesselbst condaulzen tolo babild fréde livant dylacérul adjibolit semento périete ïaphral compes fondo spari
14:49:11 <HackEgo> Unknown option: portugeese
14:50:33 <boily> compes isn't real, or is some random village name maybe.
14:50:42 <boily> "déture" would sound realer.
14:50:50 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän
14:50:50 <wob_jonas> "manulle" looks like a typo for a real word
14:51:29 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
14:51:29 <boily> "manuelle" is real.
14:51:40 <fizzie> wob_jonas: "Manu" is a Finnish given name, so "Manulle" would be "to Manu".
14:52:20 <fizzie> (It's either from Immanuel or Magnus.)
14:53:43 <wob_jonas> you should add a dataset that tries to make up town names in a country
14:54:02 <wob_jonas> I've had some moderate success with that, using the 2000 town names of Hungary
14:54:11 <wob_jonas> generated lots of obvious nonsense, but also some believable ones,
14:54:23 <wob_jonas> and at least one town name that is real but is outside Hungary so wasn't in the input dataset
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15:04:18 <lynn> oops I forgot my wiki password v_v;
15:05:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lily * New user account
15:07:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50824&oldid=50818 * Lily * (+158) Introduction
15:07:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cardinal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50825&oldid=46110 * Lily * (+166) Add Python interpreter.
15:08:33 <wob_jonas> "<zzo38> I don't even know what is the percentage of such thing, such as, what percentage of everyone in here is a furry, what percentage is a programmer, and what percentage is someone with a moustache, and then also the combination the percentage too. Possibly it is not quite known and may not ever be known, but the assumption to be programmer is
15:08:33 <wob_jonas> probably valid; everyone or nearly everyone on here probably can computer programming at least."
15:08:34 <fizzie> That reminds me, I should really try to get that email stuff working properly.
15:08:51 <fizzie> Every now and then someone requests a password reset, and the email bounces and comes to me.
15:09:05 <fizzie> But possibly some of them fail silently.
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15:10:55 <fizzie> (Currently the wiki is using the platform sendmail, but there's no valid reverse DNS entry for the system, and some mail servers really don't like that. I tried to do $wgSMTP via the other system that handles incoming @esolangs.org email, but for whatever reason it didn't work, and I didn't have time to debug why.)
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15:11:27 <boily> I'm unfurry, I proprogrammer, I also beard and mustache.
15:15:11 <boily> last week I tried to describe an applicative functor in java. didn't work :(
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15:21:27 <wob_jonas> boily: how hard did you try? did you write a whole interpreter for a virtual machine in java and compiled your applicative functor to it?
15:22:32 <boily> I managed to get sensible functor and monad interfaces, but couldn't make applicative compile.
15:22:53 <boily> that wouldn't be hard, just insane.
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15:29:29 <lynn> Without higher kinded types? :o
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16:30:18 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
16:30:26 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
16:31:19 <HackEgo> gusta pecce nosum agment can weet scensorrhr mulu ibmb fortic peli hagbanabou cond kamanizatio fyd conocarbazukuk anifan broch amborgle edmir refetione musten sen 6pagamy wal
16:31:38 <HackEgo> demo icfholle zha ate insuartr shar pvbaral weiser beati aochaf pude her aam rat severt gely utionapa incement myoful call muleav variou varth alr bayt
16:31:41 <HackEgo> thaw god honi nnde unaroma fundi mon pener wushme coppreed mismilk wheefelf isport tof gar igno you blain shing conc eque prolo meft widd aidnamilny
16:31:44 <HackEgo> dresenterebible roylchanituarensen genetranceledeckesau almiggsvillloc pareakood musichlactionaldown juveentabhagomaya aschenylamareke enicketcarun chrifferrarentroph senaengraverck caudingllni nauiachreemgaa diokedoglow saloxingman bercedenttingh onevotiuat emfcydiah raihartholmemher guarehannelhon cedelegan chialisbialian persaurobiicroby outpute
16:32:22 <wob_jonas> "can " is real. "cond" is a programmer's word so I guess it's fine. "broch" is misspelled I think. "6pagamy" has a number in it, strange
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16:33:48 <wob_jonas> "demo, ate, her, rat, call" are real words
16:34:17 <wob_jonas> "incement" sounds like an English word
16:35:48 <wob_jonas> "thaw, god, you" are real, "coppreed, mismilk" are funny ones that look close to English, "blain, meft" are reasonably good ones
16:36:47 <wob_jonas> "igno, conc, prolo" look like the kind of informal abbreviated words that you can find in a chat
16:37:54 <wob_jonas> ``` words --french -o 5 20; words --french -o -4 20
16:37:56 <HackEgo> adhsslavoraterssation hanissentre tentsimumquesentas mullmala inverentransforman sumppelintraft vidofuminisquesina orcédâtrescrie chantseau lilletterateur joinianmoirolly intesonnelles croiagantuée solettwallaningarauton abricessssoldata gretteremioleuipoglque raphonomagnati golgoritivilas aboreauxjeux hagiconcembatalio \ resons péquis dimenl
16:38:52 <HackEgo> publissant hetta aufilla œsara pre appant mogabris dornândre defflue épic marro prol oupéribéro sitaviè créter siléon antérien devre exuées elphurs
16:42:25 <wob_jonas> créter is almost right ("crêter" turns out to be an obscure real word)
16:42:59 <HackEgo> truciogran désisse mations vœux ilgiamussive auginietnoul àinsiste fraiens conce's spiry exclapol ficent medactifients belle graphina sacque vogerkl yaillée llairesidenpour dagesiroscollanda
16:45:28 <wob_jonas> vœux is a real word meaning wows, mations is a real word, belle is a real word, and apparently sacquer is a real word too. not bad
16:48:59 <wob_jonas> ``` words --eng-us -o -2 30 | sed 's/\>/coin/g'
16:49:00 <HackEgo> prochercoin inlyftedcoin maidentoneyearmecoin applecoin inlcoin megraphicoin loemirocoin sevechcoin tfromumcoin craclobcoin niptieldofcoin nundiffussingcoin mussneycoin pructiocoin chlystoncoin landalpoldicoin dopycnidiomeccoin migraftcoin cuitcoin anistriacoin diagainticcoin dealbersusperitcoin conalyevcoin traineicoin cernanthcoin
16:51:22 <wob_jonas> maidentoneyearmecoin -- maiden tone year me coin. like when a dragon forces a village to tribute a young maiden to her every year, singing her to sleep.
16:51:51 <wob_jonas> megraphicoin and applecoin are nice
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16:53:08 <wob_jonas> though applecoin is unlikely, it would probably be called iCoin instead
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17:22:37 <HackEgo> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:23:20 <oerjan> wob_jonas: while that is true, i don't feel like Sirs design dictionary frameworks.
17:24:46 <wob_jonas> Guiston Degraîme is still my favorite. Zwübert von Pfölliger is a bit too over the top
17:26:27 <oerjan> maybe we should ask Christian Höner zu Siederdissen for advice
17:27:34 <oerjan> i mean, that's a _genuine_ programmer.
17:27:55 <ais523> where the other names generated by a markov chain, by any chance?
17:29:01 <oerjan> no, i made them by hand, except for Stronderowich which i adapted from genuine `words output
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17:29:36 <oerjan> (my attempts at inventing a fake polish name failed, i had a stray v and when i corrected it to w the name turned out real)
17:31:53 <wob_jonas> For a fake Hungarian name, I'd suggest suffixing "ia" to just about anything to get a fake female given name. Though as `words doesn't have a Hungarian database, I'm not sure why the wisdom needs a Hungarian sounding name.
17:32:39 <oerjan> i was mostly going by nationalities present in the channel
17:33:35 <wob_jonas> (Hungarian family names are easier, because almost anything is realistic as a family name.)
17:34:26 <oerjan> it's hard to find a plausible english first name that isn't a real last name, i find
17:34:50 <oerjan> which is why i haven't got something better than Bick. although that's probably real too
17:34:52 <wob_jonas> oerjan: there too, try to go for an obviously female one
17:38:24 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,Hå,Klens Hå,
17:38:26 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:38:42 <oerjan> norwegians very commonly have two first names (i'm an exception)
17:39:09 <wob_jonas> oerjan: Americans usually have two first names too, but they often don't use the second, or only use an initial
17:39:49 <wob_jonas> whereas only a minority of people with Hungarian names have two given names
17:40:23 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,ck,ck T.,
17:40:26 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Bick T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:44:55 <oerjan> at least with norwegian names i can easily make one i'm sure is fake
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17:51:19 <ais523> the question is, can you make American and British names which clearly belong to their respective nationalities, but are fake?
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17:53:46 <oerjan> <-- i think several of them are real, or at least plausible. hävda, hakan, läppe, tuvandet, blottning, häck
17:53:56 <oerjan> *<wob_jonas> of the swedish, "sven" sounds good enough
17:54:31 <wob_jonas> Do you know real names that clearly seem to be British or American, and start with a consonant? Removing the initial consonant is an easy way to get fake names.
17:54:47 <oerjan> ais523: well i failed at that, because i thought i was going for british and someone said it was american.
17:55:47 <wob_jonas> let me think if it's possible to get good Hungarian fake names like that
17:55:49 <oerjan> i'm making it too hard for myself by trying to avoid them being last names too
17:56:23 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,Bick,Upert,
17:56:31 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:57:02 <oerjan> if that's not british i don't know how to make it british
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17:58:21 <oerjan> now what was the other i thought of
17:59:09 <wob_jonas> I can't really. Ariann, Arianna, and Illa sound plausible, but I'm not sure they're fake. I'll have to check the List.
17:59:23 <ais523> Arianna is definitely a real name
18:01:48 <wob_jonas> and so is Ariana and Arián, but Ariann is genuine fake
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18:02:08 <ais523> "Zella" is really realistic, but I can believe it's fake
18:02:49 <wob_jonas> So people sometimes give rare names to their children even when that rare name isn't a horribly stupid their child will hate
18:03:34 <ais523> there are all sorts of rules for constructing non-ridiculous-sounding names, rare or otherwise
18:03:43 <ais523> there are people who chart the popularity of names and try to work out what's special about them
18:04:06 <wob_jonas> We could borrow from the ton of names that Asimov have invented for his robots-Foundation universe, or names invented for Star Wars (but not the most popular ones like Rey because those very quickly become real), or names from the ASOIAF universe.
18:05:12 <ais523> one thing I learned playing RPGs is that almost arbitrarily silly names seem reasonable in fiction after you've heard them a few times
18:05:18 <ais523> I'm not sure this works in real life though
18:05:31 <wob_jonas> "chart the popularity of names and try to work out what's special about them" => usually they're popular because a lot of people you know have already got that name, but very hated figures like Hitler didn't. typically these are biblical names or close varieties, but there are exceptions.
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18:09:18 <wob_jonas> I quite like "Lodovik", because it's used for two characters in Asimov's universe, Lodovik Antyook and Lodovik Trema
18:10:20 <LKoen> ais523: the problem with real life is that people keep hearing about you for the first time
18:10:38 <oerjan> lodovik has to be real.
18:11:27 <LKoen> ludovic is a common french name
18:11:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50826&oldid=47150 * Rottytooth * (+213) updated description
18:11:43 <oerjan> and it sounds like what it'd become in some slavic language
18:14:29 <wob_jonas> Asimov figured out a lot of strange spellings of names. The most well known is Hari Seldon of course. Then there's Wendell Urth, Giskard Reventlov, Kelden Amadiro, and the emperor Cleon I. Though I hear "Cleon" is a real name, and I'm unsure if "Wendell" is a real spelling.
18:18:29 <wob_jonas> Oh! Can I propose "Zália"? That's a suffix of a real Hungarian given name, is fake, and sounds plausible.
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18:21:52 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s;ik,;& Gareen Shergyle,;
18:21:54 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
18:23:51 <oerjan> i think Gareen may technically be real somewhere. i took it from the logs.
18:24:57 <oerjan> i figured we needed some name that was plausibly american too
18:25:19 <wob_jonas> Or I could try to replace the initial consonant with another consonant
18:27:10 <oerjan> are you saying there's something wrong with Győrvan? it was sort of a portmanteau, although i guess György only has short dots but what kind of fake hungarians doesn't have long ones
18:28:20 <oerjan> hm but the a should be long
18:28:37 <wob_jonas> oerjan: Győrvan is fine as a family name. Sárbik is fine as a family name too. Family names are easy, there are so strange ones I'm prepared to believe a lot. It's finding a good given names that's hard.
18:29:34 <wob_jonas> which one was supposed to have been the given name?
18:30:04 <wob_jonas> Ok. I assumed Sárvik would be the given name.
18:30:30 <oerjan> that would be weird in a list of international names
18:31:15 <oerjan> although i guess i would think differently if there were a chinese one...
18:31:38 <wob_jonas> it's just that Győrvan sounded like a more reasonable family name
18:32:09 <wob_jonas> and neither sounded like a reasonable given name
18:33:28 <oerjan> i guess i don't have any intuition what makes a hungarian word sound like a given name
18:34:22 <wob_jonas> the problem with given names is that there are few of them. most people have common ones.
18:34:23 <wob_jonas> for family names, only like half or two thirds of people have common ones
18:35:34 <oerjan> i'd give you free hands, except that i'm worrying that another female name would be implausibly many in a list of programmers.
18:36:34 <oerjan> hmph if i change Gareen -> Garin then suddenly it becomes one of those ASOIAF ones
18:37:21 <wob_jonas> I think the easiest way to get a plausible but fake given name for a Hungarian is to make a name where both the family name and the given name are obviously foreign. Make them both slavic, or both german, or both vietnamese.
18:38:35 <oerjan> but would it then look hungarian to any non-hungarian?
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18:42:37 <wob_jonas> Would it be too real if you used "Ince", which is a real historical name that popes had, but I think nobody gets it anymore.
18:44:59 <oerjan> . o O ( horrible puns solve everything )
18:45:30 <wob_jonas> nah, using a real name nobody has just sounds fake
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19:05:00 <zzo38> Trying to debug SDLTERM and SDLTERM-MCK I found that executing the testing program for sdlterm-mck when sdlterm is compiled with optimization and executed through valgrind results in a complain of "SDL_SetAlpha" even though it shouldn't be calling that function. It only does so in that case though; if a different JavaScript program is used, it won't cause that problem. The problem is caused even if audio is disabled.
19:05:47 <oerjan> `coins --eng-us -o -2 30
19:05:50 <HackEgo> oklycoin renyorinandcoin rethoumfcoin jeolargycoin diffedaiastuvcoin jmndcoin mejoiccoin guttactucoin viryercoin casseroycoin clecromentocoin koontiamcoin nreikecoin cimatachtshirmlycoin corschecoin khalftcoin aretankhcoin libransfercoin sstufcoin tarmonocoin epillcoin weflowgover
19:06:14 <HackEgo> words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' | rainwords
19:06:38 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ use strict; use warnings; \ use v5.10; \ use open qw( :encoding(UTF-8) :std); \ use File::Basename 'dirname'; \ use Storable 'retrieve'; \ use List::Util qw(sum min); \ use Getopt::Long qw(:config gnu_getopt); \ BEGIN { \ eval { \ require Math::Random::MT::Perl; Math::Random::MT::Perl->import('rand'); \ }; \ #wa
19:15:21 <zzo38> It does not cause that problem if valgrind isn't used.
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22:22:10 <zzo38> This is the fragment program I wrote for use with OpenGL for making white pixels to be transparent: TEMP R0; TEMP R1; TEX R0,fragment.position,texture[1],RECT; DP3 R1,R0,{1}.x; SLT R1,R1,{4,4,4,3}; MUL result.color,R1,R0; Do you know if there is better way?
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22:42:35 <FireFly> That doesn't look like GLSL
22:43:13 <FireFly> What do the TEX, DP3 and SLT operations do?
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22:54:49 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/zb1GwR.jpg
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22:57:51 <zzo38> TEX allow to read from a texture, DP3 is three-components dot-product, and SLT means the result is 1 if the first input is less or is 0 otherwise
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23:02:46 <zzo38> FireFly: Do you know OpenGL so well? I don't know OpenGL so well.
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23:08:20 <zzo38> To make it work with any transparency colour keys, will be a bit more difficult, but I think, can be done, by subtracting the colour key value and then dot product that result with itself, and then can do with SLT or SGE, followed by MUL, similar to what I have above. (I have not tested this.)
23:09:42 <zzo38> Do you expect to work? Or maybe it won't be enough precision? What is the precision of the calculation anyways?
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00:56:07 <boily> hmm... steam refuses to load...
00:56:51 <boily> I launched steam from the command line to see what happens. it's stuck verifying installation...
00:57:11 <boily> it's saying "Verification complete" since many minutes ago.
00:58:27 <boily> quintopia: you internet iffies?
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01:17:21 <shachaf> 08:31 <HackEgo> demo icfholle zha ate insuartr shar pvbaral weiser beati aochaf pude her aam rat severt gely utionapa incement myoful call muleav variou varth alr bayt
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03:08:03 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCXzd00OcU
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06:43:52 <HackEgo> Royal Dahl is the king of Norway.
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11:34:16 <HackEgo> tree//You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
11:41:11 <boily> the sun isn't even up yet.
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11:41:56 <b_jonas> I think it is up, just hidden behind the cloud cover
11:46:57 <b_jonas> Does it bother anyone else that ruby and rust use the .. and ... operator backwards compared to each other?
11:47:51 <boily> what was the difference again?
11:49:08 <b_jonas> inclusive versus half-inclusive range
11:49:14 <b_jonas> in perl, both .. and ... are inclusive range
11:49:22 <b_jonas> in ruby, .. is inclusive and ... is half-inclusive
11:49:32 <b_jonas> in rust, .. is half-inclusive and ... is inclusive
11:49:41 <b_jonas> when used as a binary operator
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14:00:04 <FireFly> I would argue that Rust's choice is more mnemonic (... covers an extra element, is also probably rarer, is therefore a char longer), but to be honest I think supporting both and making a difference between them is harmful
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14:44:26 <b_jonas> FireFly: yes, but otoh ruby's choice is more mnemonic because even though .. and ... are the same in perl in this context, almost everybody writes .. because it's shorter, so everybody remembers that in perl, .. means an inclusive range.
14:45:17 <FireFly> I guess it's more mnemonic if one already knows Perl :P
14:46:42 <b_jonas> Yes, and ruby originally expected to appeal mostly to the sort of people who already know perl, so it tries to be easy to learn for those people, when that doesn't make the language worse, but changes only arbitrary naming choices.
14:47:34 <b_jonas> The same way as perl tries to be easy to learn if you already know C, so it has bitwise & have lower precedence than ==, because C people already know that's how operators work, even if that's stupid.
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15:50:10 <zzo38> And then C uses ... for range including both ends, and JavaScript uses ... for another different use entirely (converts an array, string, or generator into multiple arguments)
15:50:41 <zzo38> (or multiple arguments into an array, if given as input arguments.)
15:50:44 <alercah> C doesn't have ranges, ... is different
15:53:41 <zzo38> In a case or in the index for an initializer you can use ... to specify a range, which I think is a GNU extension.
15:56:39 <b_jonas> zzo38: ah right, gnu c extension switch(c) { case 0...9:
15:56:59 <b_jonas> right, that's a strange one, probably comes from the Linux people
16:00:47 <^v> \oren\, i belive i got you banned in ##c++
16:11:07 <^v> i had a (should be) super simple issue
16:11:30 <^v> they said they diddnt trust i was telling the truth
16:11:54 <^v> turned out to be an issue with the error g++ provided
16:12:06 <^v> i was right
16:12:57 <^v> they banned ^*!*@* and \*!*@*
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16:21:56 <b_jonas> ^v: and apparently _*!*@* and [*!*@* were already banned
16:24:51 <\oren\> crap I did that wrong hold on
16:25:45 <\oren\> whatever, I'm highly amused that they banned all nicks with symbols just to be sure
16:26:35 <\oren\> g++ has some of the worst worded errors
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16:30:38 <\oren\> maybe it's supposed to be for offensive nicks
16:32:27 <^v> ^v, \oren\, [joker], and _0ne are insanely offensive
16:34:15 <\oren\> For example, #python might have a ban on LarryWall
16:34:17 <b_jonas> \oren\: not all. I think nicks starting with ] or ` are mostly not banned
16:36:04 <\oren\> and #gcc-dev might have a ban on Linus*!*@* after too many angry tirades
16:38:26 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to LarryWall.
16:40:12 <LarryWall> I just joined #ruby and said I love python
16:40:50 -!- LarryWall has changed nick to \oren\.
16:41:11 <\oren\> argh, they fiigred out I was fake already
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17:12:55 <moony> i decided to put otherbot's sandbox on npm, to see how it goes. (its not intended to be used in place of a V8 sandbox, but iovoid wrote the readme, not me :/): www.npmjs.com/package/nullbox
17:13:49 <moony> im thinking you all could probably crack it like a nutshell if you tried :P
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17:17:22 <zzo38> Change the order of the conditions on line 22 of lib/sandbox.js so that the typeof condition comes first.
17:18:50 <moony> on it.... and done
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17:36:33 <moony> zzo38, whats the reason? just to make sure its a string first thing? :P
17:39:55 <zzo38> Otherwise the comparison might call a function (and perhaps even throw an error). The other way using strict comparison but putting the typeof first is more logical I think.
17:54:30 <moony> zzo38, im thinking the Proxy object could be useful somewhere for sandbox design. i mean, look at its functionalities
17:55:11 <zzo38> Yes, for some uses it can be very useful for sandbox design. I think there is actually another package that does that.
17:58:02 <moony> VM2 i think, but im betting its vulnerable.
17:58:39 <zzo38> Maybe it is; I don't know. I haven't examined it much, and I don't know if anyone else has either.
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20:11:27 <izabera> dear muslim refugees: just pretend to be christian. that's what most christians do anyways
20:16:17 <\oren\> izabera: or they could get a fike passprot from one of the ~50 muslim countries that aren't banned
20:19:03 <izabera> what happened to your autocorrect?
20:21:18 <\oren\> Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Turkey, Saudia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, are all not banned
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20:26:37 <\oren\> hippavilion1, where did your square brackets go?
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21:22:54 <Zarutian> \oren\: what is difference between a 'real' and 'fake' passport exactly?
21:29:46 <\oren\> Zarutian: whether it was issued to the person by the government of the country it says on the front
21:30:46 <\oren\> Afaik countries only issue passports to their citizens.
21:31:10 <Zarutian> \oren\: no passports are issued by any governments but only agents of aforesaid governments.
21:32:34 <\oren\> well sure that's what I mant
21:33:30 <Zarutian> well some countries issue passports for persons of other countries if said person lost theirs and cannot travel. But those usually have text "The <insert country name here> hereby certifies that this individual is who he (or she) is." or something similiar in it.
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22:07:03 <\oren\> my bot has a new function
22:14:42 -!- oren has joined.
22:15:23 <oren> ❄showchar U8CC7
22:17:27 -!- tromp has joined.
22:18:32 <\oren\> first I need to kill the other oren
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22:21:38 <\oren\> ☃ grep -A4 U08cc7 ~/art.txt
22:21:52 <\oren\> Hmm, now why doesn't that work
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22:24:18 <\oren\> you can now get a big version of any character by typig ❄showchar followed by 0x1234 or U+1234 or U1234
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22:30:02 <oren> that did not work.
22:30:59 <oren> had to quickly pkill -9 irssi to stop it
22:31:27 <oren> how far into unicode did it get?
22:33:42 <oren> the logs seem to show that I killed it before it could flood the channel with every unicode character
22:42:05 <oren> ☃ status: reading...
22:43:54 <Taneb> Doesn't render very well in my font
22:44:03 <Taneb> The braille, that is
22:44:41 <oren> Hmm, but if I used blocks the thing would be twice as tall and wide
22:45:56 -!- oren has changed nick to \oren\.
22:46:28 <Taneb> It's a little better if I turn the font size up
22:46:29 <\oren\> I would be using pixels twice as big ▀▄
22:50:38 <\oren\> should I bother with the ☃ U00047 G line?
22:55:24 <\oren\> oops, I forgot to sanitize it for $ and * and etc
22:58:37 <\oren\> always remember to use grep -F and not just grep
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23:02:39 <lambdabot> CYUL 302200Z 25010KT 15SM FEW030 FEW075 FEW240 M10/M17 A2986 RMK CF1AC2CI1 CF TR CI TR SLP114
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23:10:12 <\oren\> I almost spammed the channel with a list of every unicode character but I pkill -9'd my client in time
23:10:39 <Zarutian> oren: are you going also provide sixels version?
23:12:40 <\oren\> I wonder if sixels would be preserved over irc
23:12:46 <boily> there aren't *that* many unicode codepoints, just a few.
23:17:34 <\oren\> my terminal doesn't seem to support them
23:18:36 <Zarutian> your terminal must be VT340 mode
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23:49:40 <boily> time to go sneak upon an unsuspecting poutine.
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23:52:22 <oerjan> `addquote <boily> time to go sneak upon an unsuspecting poutine.
23:52:59 <Taneb> I wonder if I can order takeaway poutine at this time of night in York
23:53:01 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
23:53:23 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I hear the amazon delivery bears will bring it.
23:57:18 <oerjan> they won't bring surströmming though, that's unbearable.
23:58:50 <oerjan> looks like the entire wiki server is down again.
00:01:39 <fizzie> oerjan: The machine is not answering to me.
00:01:42 <fizzie> oerjan: I think you probably jinxed it with your talk about backups.
00:02:06 <oerjan> i blame int-e for talking about CaC being crap hth
00:07:11 <oerjan> please put an apostrophe in that word twh
00:07:55 <oerjan> in these times, people might actually mean it without
00:07:59 <lambdabot> BIRK 310000Z 08024G38KT 9999 -RA OVC035 07/02 Q0979
00:08:05 <lambdabot> ENVA 302350Z 10006KT CAVOK M03/M04 Q1019 RMK WIND 670FT 14008KT
00:08:14 <shachaf> Taneb: Good evening, Nathan.
00:08:49 <Taneb> Hmm, I sound more first namey than usual
00:10:11 <Zarutian> Taneb: what will I have told you about doing up-time-stream 'invention' of already down-time-stream 'invented' tech and items? Because I forgot.
00:10:28 <Taneb> I don't know, I'm about to go to bed
00:11:04 <quintopia> apostrphes take too much time on this kb
00:11:24 <quintopia> its like asking me to put the accent mark in pokemon
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00:13:25 <oerjan> quintopia: i'm pretty sure you did that quicker than i would
00:13:40 <Zarutian> quintopia: no tilda over the n?
00:14:10 <quintopia> oerjan: but slower than not at all
00:15:38 <Zarutian> sounds like a slavic influnced norweigan that grew up in jamica said it
00:17:14 <oerjan> some of those are not words
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00:19:25 <oerjan> no, i said some, not one
00:20:47 * Zarutian honestly doesnt see the others.
00:21:09 <oerjan> "norweigan" and "jamica".
00:23:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:23:27 <Zarutian> alright s/norweigan/norvegan/ and s/jamica|jamika/ ;-Þ
00:23:49 * oerjan swats Zarutian -----###
00:23:59 <lambdabot> EGLL 302350Z 10005KT 3600 -RADZ SCT005 BKN008 06/06 Q1013 TEMPO 5000 HZ SCT008 BKN010
00:24:05 <shachaf> oerjan is neithervegetarian
00:24:19 <fizzie> Our weather is five kilohertz.
00:24:38 * Zarutian notes down "xorvegan" for future reference.
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00:27:52 * Zarutian sings "all the good jam comes from jam-ika, jam-ika" while thrusting shakesticks back and forth.
00:29:34 <Zarutian> oerjan: btw as I am from Iceland and Greenland I cant be supergreen like them. (Korbin Dallas!)
00:31:01 <Zarutian> oerjan: not fan of the fifth, then, I see.
00:31:40 <oerjan> i haven't watch that many movies
00:31:57 <Zarutian> you havent seen the Fifth Element?
00:32:51 <Zarutian> Treks Across Space (and occasationally Time)?
00:33:50 <oerjan> i think i may have read the wikipedia plot synopsis
00:33:59 <Zarutian> the two last are usually known by Star Wars and StarTrek.
00:33:59 <oerjan> and then promptly forgot about it.
00:34:40 <Zarutian> You have at least seen Tron, the original movie?
00:34:56 <oerjan> i believe i have, at least on tv rerun
00:35:09 <oerjan> i have also seen some star wars and some star trek.
00:35:36 <oerjan> but only one SW movie in cinema (the empire strikes back)
00:36:03 <Zarutian> then you are not entirely buckwheetable like some Hinerians (a reference to much loved SciFi series)
00:36:32 <oerjan> is that firefly (haven't seen that either)
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00:37:07 <oerjan> oh i also saw some babylon 5 back the half year i was in the us.
00:39:53 <oerjan> Zarutian: also, because you keep misspelling things, i fail to google what you mean as well
00:40:24 <Zarutian> buckwheet is kind of corn plant.
00:40:34 <oerjan> i think there's an a in that.
00:41:08 <Zarutian> like with c I am not as sure with the difference beteen ee and ea sounds in english
00:42:08 <oerjan> ok it's probably farscape.
00:42:20 <oerjan> (which i have not seen, and barely heard of)
00:43:23 <oerjan> Zarutian: ee in ea sound the same afaik. they're just not spelled the same.
00:43:47 * oerjan gears up for muphry hunting
00:44:51 <shachaf> Cale: What should a query language for a time series database look like?
00:45:16 <Zarutian> oerjan: well, if you haddnt notic'd I write english, at least here, from how it sounds.
00:45:51 <oerjan> Zarutian: a dangerous method
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00:46:35 <otherbot> 'im curious why this is unbroken...'
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01:16:13 <\oren\> "Pay off your credit card balance sooner", says the email from my bank, as if I would be dumb enough to keep a balance on a credit card
01:26:27 <Cale> shachaf: Haven't really given that too much thought.
01:27:01 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick.
01:27:32 <Cale> "Your bill is overdue", as if I would be dumb enough to... oh shi-
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01:58:29 <izabera> where does a dog go when he loses his tail?
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02:09:10 <fizzie> 21:08:53 up 5 min, 1 user, load average: 0.06, 0.23, 0.15
02:09:28 <fizzie> Don't know if someone did something, or if it just arbitrarily recovered itself.
02:18:36 <oerjan> fizzie: bridge is down hth
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03:09:27 <\oren\> hey trump fired the acting attorney general. I guess that means they need an acting acting attorney general?
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04:15:28 * oerjan recalls the blissful days of early november when he thought all the trump talk would be over in a week
04:16:23 <oerjan> although the part of me that believes in something like dialectics had doubts.
04:16:59 <pikhq> \oren\: And the acting head of ICE.
04:20:09 <oerjan> trump only sees the top of the ICEberg
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07:01:11 <whois> is this place active?
07:02:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: brainfuck: not found
07:02:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?brainfuck: not found
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07:07:52 <whois_> is brainfuck welcome here or are people sick of it?
07:09:28 <myname> the language itself is fine
07:09:51 <myname> it's just annoying that every other person tries and fails to make it more interesting
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07:16:52 <whois_> wait... you're saying verbosefuck isn't a universally praised masterpiece?!
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07:29:44 <hppavilion[1]> whois_: I've been threatened with a ban from the wiki
07:30:05 <hppavilion[1]> whois_: Actually, I think verbosefuck is one of the few we're OK with, sort of.
07:30:13 <hppavilion[1]> «https://youtu.be/BeyEGebJ1l4» raises an interesting philosophical question. It's freaking me out.
07:31:04 <whois_> i actually own an hp pavilion
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07:31:56 <whois_> power thing broke almost instantly, difficult to install linux on
07:32:05 <myname> i only use verbosefuck to tell people how i feel about java
07:32:28 <whois_> myname: fizzbuzz enterprise edition tho
07:34:27 <myname> most bf derivated are just stupid substitutions or even worse useless merges
07:35:12 <myname> somebody even made a mixup of hq9+ and bf, but because bf already uses the + you cannot use the + of hq9+
07:35:18 <myname> which does not make any sense
07:42:13 <whois_> the pavilion computers have a thinjg called secure boot
07:42:33 <whois_> that basically stops them from booting into anything but windows
07:42:44 <whois_> needs to be turned off in the bios
07:43:37 <whois_> which doen't display boot locations properly unless you get into it with a particular set f keypresses
07:46:50 <whois_> bios/uefi didn't want to work with GRUB either
07:47:35 <whois_> although that might be grub's fault
07:57:04 <whois_> also came with a bunch of preinstalled garbage iirc
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09:01:16 <ais523_> I haven't looked at it much, but fairly relevant to this channel: https://github.com/jawhitti/INTERCAL
09:01:27 <ais523_> (new INTERCAL impl, as far as I can make out, this time in .NET)
09:05:58 <fizzie> ais523_: Did I show you the INTERCAL entry the Computer History Museum had on their "evolution of programming languages" chart?
09:06:08 <fizzie> https://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/32208355921/
09:06:38 <ais523_> INTERCAL is a derivative of itself?
09:07:01 <ais523_> I wanted to write an esolang that's a derivative of itself, but wasn't sure how to start
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09:10:04 <fizzie> I guess that's a bit like the bootstrapping problem for a self-hosted language, except trickier.
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09:14:42 <b_jonas> ais523_: the easiest way to do that would be to write two programming languages, one a derivative of the other, but give them the same name and thoroughly confuse them in all documentation
09:15:17 <ais523_> arguably that happens with most languages which release a new major version but don't use a version number for it
09:15:27 <ais523_> but I don't think that would be a self-derivative, merely two languaes which were conflated
09:15:42 <ais523_> I guess you could call Snowflake a derivative of itself, at least once there's a working interp and someone tries to run it
09:15:53 <b_jonas> or with the frocking character encodings like cp1250 or MacRoman that get characters added or even changed without renaming them
09:21:12 <ais523_> I should write a Snowflake interp one day
09:21:19 <ais523_> it's the closest a nontrivial language of mine is to being art
09:21:36 <ais523_> but seeing it working in practice (if it does indeed work) would make the point much better
09:21:45 <ais523_> there might be some fundamental issue preventing TCness, for example
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09:38:49 <shachaf> i,i INTEGRAL is a derivative of itself
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11:25:07 <myname> what was that language that was lambda calculus without lambda?
11:26:02 <shachaf> There are lots of things you could describe that way.
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11:58:50 <b_jonas> myname: possibly unlambda?
12:19:29 <myname> underload sounds right
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13:02:26 <b_jonas> oh great, debian stretch is getting closer
13:02:33 <b_jonas> (as in, will be released "soon")
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15:44:49 <rdococ> I think they'll stretch it, b_jonas
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15:47:57 <ais523> oh well, this may be the end of this computer
15:48:07 <ais523> the laptop bag broke and it took quite a lot of physical damage
15:48:28 <ais523> it seems to be undamaged in terms of components that are vital for it to run, and the hard drive seems to work
15:48:42 <ais523> but the battery is broken, so I have to run on AC power
15:48:50 <ais523> and the screen hinge is very stiff
15:49:35 <ais523> I'm currently attempting to download Ubuntu so that I can get a new computer set up, but the Internet connection's slowness is making that hard
15:49:38 <b_jonas> ais523: reuse it as a low powered server, continuously plugged in. that's what we did with a laptop with a broken display.
15:51:22 <ais523> don't have anywhere to put it, or a continuous Internet connection for it
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15:52:45 <ais523> I'm not liking Windows 10, btw; the first noticeable issue is a failure to find Action Center in the start menu search
15:52:55 <ais523> which I thought would have been something that should clearly be included in the results
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16:00:53 <ais523> not huge, but windows-8-derived OSes have always had trouble with finding where things have got to
16:01:01 <ais523> because they're basically two different models stapeled together
16:02:58 <ais523> the metro stuff (which is called something else now because it was such a marketing disaster), and the legacy stuff
16:02:58 <ais523> and settings are in one or the other more or less at random
16:04:46 <APic> At least Win10 integrates an Ubuntu
16:05:03 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, I don't like that either, how the settings are spread between the two
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16:05:55 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, I don't like that either, how the settings are spread between the two
16:06:09 <b_jonas> and I also don't like the metro style settings, for the same reason I don't like the android interface: it's too easy to change a setting accidentally such that you can't undo the change, don't know what you changed, and might not even notice you've changed something
16:06:40 <b_jonas> the "Ok" and "Cancel" and "Apply" buttons are there in the windows style settings for a good reason
16:07:21 <ais523> I think OK / Undo is also a viable setup
16:07:48 <ais523> (showing as just "Cancel" if there are no modifications)
16:08:44 <b_jonas> though there's some of this problem in windows even before the metro style was introduced: the most famous one being accidentally moving files in the file explorer by dragging
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16:10:13 <b_jonas> though there's some of this problem in windows even before the metro style was introduced: the most famous one being accidentally moving files in the file explorer by dragging
16:11:21 <ais523> I know there are versions of Windows where that has a confirm
16:12:13 <b_jonas> when exactly did that get removed? is it only in windows 10?
16:12:29 <b_jonas> and now I wonder if there's some well hidden way to turn the confirm promt back on
16:13:03 <b_jonas> ah, apparently it was changed some time between windows 7 and windows 10
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16:16:35 <b_jonas> doing an internet search. I found pointers to two workarounds that probably hurt more than help.
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16:18:57 <ais523> this is not a good time to have an unreliable connection
16:19:28 <ais523> and apparently wget has a bug that makes it delete its partial progress sometimes
16:21:42 <b_jonas> ais523: I did use curl once to download from a server that unexpectedly broke the tcp connection each time after transmitting fifty megabytes or something. I don't remember the size, but it was some fixed sized, reproducible.
16:22:32 <ais523> just overheard in my office: "what is a monad?"
16:22:47 <b_jonas> repeatedly called curl to continue download using HTTP range gets
16:22:57 <ais523> although apparently it was in the category-theory context so it may be easier to explain than normal
16:23:51 <ais523> that's documented as "automatically figure out an appropriate range get"
16:24:15 <b_jonas> breaks every 124 megabytes
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16:25:59 <b_jonas> ais523: note that the curl executable has nice exit codes telling what the error was,
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16:26:58 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, I used -C - . note that the curl executable has documented nice exit codes telling what the error was.
16:28:02 <b_jonas> I retry on exit codes 7, 56, 6, 18, but you'd have to check the manual to tell if that's appropriate in your case
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16:39:12 <b_jonas> Linux question. The kernel knows that a process was started setuid, with different effective and real uid, even after if it's setuid root and calls setuid to drop all root permissions, and in that case it doesn't allow the process to core dump or get ptraced. From a library linked into the process, how do I query whether the process is like that, so eg. it can ignore env-vars in that case?
16:40:05 <b_jonas> I guess I should look that up in the source code of ncurses, since it has to do that.
16:40:48 <ais523> b_jonas: prctl(PR_GET_DUMPABLE) would be my guess
16:41:18 <ais523> but it doesn't hae an exact 1:1 correlation with what you want
16:42:09 <b_jonas> I didn't tell what exactly I want, since setgid also matters
16:42:18 <b_jonas> and maybe other things matter too
16:42:29 <b_jonas> I want to know when not to trust the settings a user can set
16:42:35 <ais523> if no suidy stuff has happened yet, it has the value 1
16:43:12 <ais523> if suidy stuff /has/ happened, it has a root-configurable value; 1 is a debug mode in which doing random stuff to suid programs is allowed, 0 is the default safe value, and 2 is an obsolete setting that's somewhere in between
16:43:45 <b_jonas> yes, prctl(PR_GET_DUMPABLE) seems like the right call
16:44:23 <ais523> I guess if you get a return of 1, either nothing suidy has happened or you're on a system whose owner has opted into insecure uses of suid
16:44:27 <b_jonas> well, these days linuxes are sometimes configured such that you can ptrace any process
16:44:52 <b_jonas> can't ptrace any process, not even your non-setuid ones
16:44:58 <ais523> on Ubuntu you can only ptrace a child process, or a process that has opted in, even if UID is shared
16:45:23 <ais523> you can change the default setting in /etc somewhere (this gets copied onto the relevant /proc or /sys knob, I forget which, at boot)
16:49:40 <b_jonas> I'm not ashamed I didn't know about this one. prctl is one of those obscure syscalls I barely know exist, and sort of thought most of the time only libc has reasons to call it, like sysconf, except that one isn't even a syscall or a syscall wrapper, but something stranger than that.
16:51:28 <b_jonas> (It reads key-value pairs from the top of the initial stack segment, same place where the ELF ABI stores the character data for argv and envp.)
16:52:56 <b_jonas> s/libc/libc and some very nonportable executables like dosbox/
16:57:57 <b_jonas> sysconf reads values that you can practically regard as constants, unless you run the compiled ELF program on a completely different brand of unix, in which case usually something else breaks way before those constants
17:02:09 <ais523> oh, prctl is pretty much the first thing I check for that sort of question
17:02:13 <ais523> it's like ioctl for processes
17:02:23 <ais523> (which is presumably where the name comes from)
17:03:11 <ais523> b_jonas: well one of the values in auxv is a random number intended to be used for ASLR
17:03:11 <ais523> (that could potentially cause problems for Web of Lies, I haven't taken steps to zero it yet)
17:05:17 <b_jonas> zero it? don't you just unmap that stack segment?
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17:18:26 <ais523> b_jonas: auxv? I don't think so, it's probably fairly important?
17:18:36 <ais523> I think half the information there is needed for, say, ldd to work
17:28:10 <\oren\> I rooted out hat I think is the last bug
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17:29:27 <\oren\> if you have a suitable font that supports braille you can get a large version of many unicode characters
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17:36:26 <\oren\> Hooray, corporate sent us cake!
17:38:26 <HackEgo> The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
17:39:24 <\oren\> I wonder if they actually sent it all the way from santa clara to toronto or if they just ordered one from a bakery in toronto
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17:49:03 <Perenelle> Ugh my registrar command is to slow for freenode uwu
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18:43:47 <\oren\> ８７歳女性に下半身を露出容疑 ７５歳「むらっとした」
18:43:53 <\oren\> 75 year old man arrested for exposing his dick to a 87 year old woman
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19:01:55 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy29DXeP0Qk
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19:24:07 <oerjan> hm, looks better in irssi than in the logs
19:24:25 <oerjan> (the space doesn't have the same width as the braille, there)
19:27:03 <myname> interesting. it looks crap on my tablet but reasonable on my smartphone
19:28:27 <int-e> I think it would look better like this.
19:29:19 <int-e> (I don't like oren's font)
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20:39:32 <ais523> well, this is the new computer
20:39:46 <ais523> everything seems to be working except that I'm still getting used to the touchpad placement
20:39:51 <ais523> currently transferring the files over
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20:46:12 <ais523> the other thing I'm getting used to is that PgUp/PgDn/Home/End are in a different relative order in this laptop
21:03:06 <shachaf> At least you have those keys. On my laptop they're Fn+arrows.
21:03:28 <myname> fn+arrows is love iff you have a right fn
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21:05:52 <ais523> shachaf: I actually chose this one over another laptop because the other laptop didn't have an end key
21:05:57 <ais523> (although it did have home, pgup and pgdn)
21:06:08 <ais523> I'm not quite sure how you manage that
21:08:29 <shachaf> What was the other laptop?
21:09:21 <fizzie> My non-laptop keyboard follows that one weird fad where the insert/delete keys have been replaced with one big delete key, and the insert pushed up to where print screen used to be.
21:11:16 <int-e> fizzie: hmm, I cannot say what I'd need the insert key for, so that might work for me
21:11:36 <fizzie> They're not exactly keys I use much, it's just weird.
21:11:49 <int-e> (that's a bit of a lie, I use the overwrite mode in editors once per fortnight or so)
21:11:56 <fizzie> I didn't find the del key especially hard to hit.
21:12:22 <shachaf> The fad where all keyboards have caps lock keys is scow.
21:12:25 <int-e> but misplacing pgup and pgdn would be horrible.
21:12:36 <fizzie> shachaf: My laptop doesn't.
21:12:52 <int-e> shachaf: well it's fine now that it acts as the main window manager key
21:13:04 <int-e> and some people map it to ESC for vi(m).
21:13:09 <fizzie> You double-tap left shift, and then a little green led lights up to denote caps lock.
21:13:21 <fizzie> I know people put control there.
21:14:09 <fizzie> Then again, the laptop is extra-weird. Where you would normally have caps lock, it has a split [Home|End] key.
21:15:07 <fizzie> Many of these things might work fine if they were available consistently on all keyboards, but I can never remember to use any keyboard-exclusive things.
21:20:04 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC4nBBwJtL4
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22:51:55 <\oren\> did you know that a command line can't be longer than 128 kilobytes?
22:52:08 <\oren\> well, it differs by system
22:52:47 <\oren\> the point is i'm running up against the limit of how long a shell command is allowed to be
22:53:10 <krok_> lol, what are you doing that's causing this to be an issue?
22:53:27 <\oren\> passing a lot of filenames to a command
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23:05:41 <boily> how goes the font?
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23:07:08 <\oren\> boily: I'm still working on kanji, but I now have support for cree
23:07:43 <\oren\> ᐀ᐁᐂᐃᐄᐅᐆᐇᐈᐉᐊᐋᐌᐍᐎᐏᐐᐑᐒᐓᐔᐕᐖᐗᐘᐙᐚᐛᐜᐝ
23:07:46 <\oren\> ᐞᐟᐠᐡᐢᐣᐤᐥᐦᐧᐨᐩᐪᐫᐬᐭᐮᐯᐰᐱᐲᐳᐴᐵᐶᐷᐸᐹᐺᐻᐼᐽᐾᐿᑀᑁᑂᑃᑄᑅᑆᑇᑈᑉᑊᑋᑌᑍᑎᑏᑐᑑᑒᑓᑔᑕᑖᑗᑘᑙᑚᑛᑜᑝ
23:07:48 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:07:50 <\oren\> ᑞᑟᑠᑡᑢᑣᑤᑥᑦᑧᑨᑩᑪᑫᑬᑭᑮᑯᑰᑱᑲᑳᑴᑵᑶᑷᑸᑹᑺᑻᑼᑽᑾᑿᒀᒁᒂᒃᒄᒅᒆᒇᒈᒉᒊᒋᒌᒍᒎᒏᒐᒑᒒᒓᒔᒕᒖᒗᒘᒙᒚᒛᒜᒝ
23:07:54 <\oren\> ᒞᒟᒠᒡᒢᒣᒤᒥᒦᒧᒨᒩᒪᒫᒬᒭᒮᒯᒰᒱᒲᒳᒴᒵᒶᒷᒸᒹᒺᒻᒼᒽᒾᒿᓀᓁᓂᓃᓄᓅᓆᓇᓈᓉᓊᓋᓌᓍᓎᓏᓐᓑᓒᓓᓔᓕᓖᓗᓘᓙᓚᓛᓜᓝ
23:07:58 <\oren\> ᓞᓟᓠᓡᓢᓣᓤᓥᓦᓧᓨᓩᓪᓫᓬᓭᓮᓯᓰᓱᓲᓳᓴᓵᓶᓷᓸᓹᓺᓻᓼᓽᓾᓿᔀᔁᔂᔃᔄᔅᔆᔇᔈᔉᔊᔋᔌᔍᔎᔏᔐᔑᔒᔓᔔᔕᔖᔗᔘᔙᔚᔛᔜᔝ
23:08:02 <\oren\> ᔞᔟᔠᔡᔢᔣᔤᔥᔦᔧᔨᔩᔪᔫᔬᔭᔮᔯᔰᔱᔲᔳᔴᔵᔶᔷᔸᔹᔺᔻᔼᔽ
23:10:23 <shachaf> fizzie: Speaking of linkers, there's some feature missing from gold that I wanted to use once.
23:10:56 <shachaf> I think it was inserting the section start and size or something like that.
23:11:22 <fizzie> I think something like that has been discussed on the channel too.
23:11:28 <shachaf> It's sort of undocumented in GNU ld so maybe I shouldn't blame them.
23:11:36 <fizzie> Speaking of things, I had a funny story about Bazel.
23:12:54 <fizzie> It's one of those stories where things go more wrong while you keep trying to solve them. I think there's an xkcd with a similar plot.
23:13:51 <fizzie> Except a little more modest.
23:15:33 <shachaf> are you going to tell the funny story twh
23:16:37 <fizzie> I gave it too much hype, and now it'd be just a disappointment. Also come to think of it, it's more about the Android Studio with Bazel plugin.
23:16:48 <fizzie> Guess I might as well.
23:17:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:17:56 <fizzie> The first step was that all external dependencies from the WORKSPACE file stopped resolving in Android Studio, so all Guava classes got red squiggly lines, and "com.google: package does not exist" errors, and things like that.
23:18:16 <fizzie> I screwed this up already.
23:18:21 <fizzie> That was actually the second step.
23:18:44 <fizzie> The first step was that the ASwB plugin wanted to update, and I let it. External dependencies not resolving was just the consequence of that.
23:19:30 <fizzie> Anyway, I went to browse the webs, noticed the plugin's source mentioned Android Studio 2.3b2, so I went ahead and updated that as well.
23:19:54 <fizzie> That made all Android resources stop resolving as well, so now "R.id.foo" references got red squiggly lines as well.
23:20:47 <fizzie> To fix *that*, I thought I'd re-import the project entirely.
23:21:02 <fizzie> ...which led to: "Project view validation failed, but we couldn't find an error message. Please report a bug."
23:21:10 <fizzie> And then I had no project. The end.
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23:58:41 <shachaf> fizzie: That's pretty good.
23:59:35 * boily hugs his Eclipse and takes care of it