←2016-12 2017-01 2017-02→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:00:11 <ais523> yay, I saw it!
00:00:20 <ais523> actually time.gov jumped two seconds backwards at the leap second for some reason
00:00:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 267 seconds).
00:00:22 <ais523> then did :59 and :60 again
00:00:26 <ais523> I bet that was a leap second anomaly
00:00:27 <fizzie> Thanks for the time.gov tip, I used that as well.
00:00:32 <fizzie> Yeah, it was a little stuttery.
00:01:02 <ais523> at least there have been sufficiently many leap seconds in the past that the anomalies tend not to be too earthbreaking at this point
00:01:07 <ais523> happy new year everyone
00:01:16 <fizzie> BBC stream just started a 60-second countdown for me.
00:01:25 <fizzie> I don't think they'll be mentioning the leap second. :/
00:01:27 <ais523> they're running a bit slow then :-P
00:01:34 <fizzie> Well, that's probably just the stream.
00:01:44 <int-e> 2 minutes buffering delays, impressive
00:07:31 <ais523> fizzie: so what was the stream like?
00:07:57 <fizzie> Well, I mean. There was a Robbie Williams concert going on, and now there's the fireworks show near London Eye.
00:08:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:08:58 <oerjan> `learn The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
00:09:08 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ
00:09:33 <shachaf> @time oerjan
00:09:33 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sun Jan 1 01:09:32 2017
00:09:43 <fizzie> I think I heard somewhere the US nuclear launch code password whatever was 0000 0000 for a decade or two earlier.
00:10:16 <oerjan> shachaf: the password month changes at UTC hth
00:10:44 <ais523> fizzie: basically they were forced to place password protection on them by an outside request but felt it'd slow down the launch and that their other protections were sufficient
00:10:47 <shachaf> doesn't it usually change whenever you remember, maybe a few days later?
00:10:52 <ais523> so the passwords were set to all-zeroes as a kind of protest
00:10:56 <oerjan> shachaf: TECHNICALLY
00:11:09 <ais523> oerjan: what does the password of the month actually do?
00:11:27 <shachaf> it's a kind of protest hth
00:11:32 <pikhq> fizzie: 100% accurate.
00:12:01 <pikhq> Though if you were in a position to use that password you were in a position to probably force whoever knew the password to divulge it *anyways*.
00:12:32 <zzo38> Can the command to make the missile not receive commands remotely be sent to it remotely?
00:12:56 <ais523> right, the point is that the password wasn't sufficient *by itself* and the other restrictions were probably more important
00:13:30 <ais523> and I guess all-zeroes has the advantage that if you *were* forced to divulge it, you might not be believed
00:13:38 <oerjan> >_> <_<
00:14:08 <zzo38> Maybe you won't be believed, but someone may try it even if they do not believe you, to see whether or not it is valid.
00:14:40 <pikhq> zzo38: Remote ordering a launch is done in the US by transmitting a command to actual human beings who have physical access to the launch facilities.
00:15:01 <pikhq> i.e. there is quite literally no actual networked means of doing it.
00:15:41 <pikhq> Which IMO is probably sensible.
00:16:01 <zzo38> I read in 2600 that it can receive commands remotely, but that there is a command which can stop it from that function, but eventually that command will expire.
00:16:35 <zzo38> Of course knowing the password is not good enough anyways; you would also need to know the frequency and the protocol.
00:17:12 <pikhq> And I would *strongly* suspect this would be a cryptographically secure protocol.
00:17:46 <zzo38> Yes, I would also expect so.
00:21:29 <zzo38> They said that apparently the people whose job it is to issue the command to stop receiving commands remotely do not do their job properly, and instead will try to issue that command only one second before the previous such command expires, instead of issuing the command an hour in advance which it should be done.
00:23:35 <zzo38> But I do not actually know much about how the missiles are working. Do you know much about it though?
00:24:29 <ais523> I expect most of the details are intentionally secret
00:24:35 <ais523> I've never really tried to determine them because of that
00:24:48 <ais523> and also because there are a number of other things I'd rather be interested in
00:26:24 <zzo38> Many of the details (including the frequency) are secret, yes, although there was a series of articles in 2600 mentioning a few things about it.
00:27:08 <zzo38> Although they do have other articles about other stuff too, and there always are some interesting articles and/or letters.
00:28:14 <Zarutian> Gleðilegt nýtt ár!
00:29:09 <zzo38> Which means what?
00:30:37 <Zarutian> Happy New Year!
00:30:48 <zzo38> OK
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00:45:53 <zzo38> Epic Fail {UU} Instant ;; Epic
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00:54:33 <int-e> hmm, the existing epic cards don't look very good
00:57:25 <zzo38> It is a joke card. It isn't very good either
00:58:20 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, I hadn't seen Eternal Dominion
01:05:36 <int-e> maybe I'm underestimating the number of ways to play sorceries without paying their full mana cost
01:06:21 <zzo38> Which ways did you see so far?
01:06:43 <int-e> I don't really know.
01:07:02 <boily> there's convoke and cascade...
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01:11:45 <int-e> The thing is I don't really know Mt:G cards.
01:15:02 <shachaf> int-e: Underestimating?
01:15:07 <shachaf> What's the context?
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01:39:54 <boily> `relcome astoxenous
01:39:57 <HackEgo> astoxenous: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:40:15 <astoxenous> hello
01:40:20 <astoxenous> The existance of a max cell value in brainfuck is not necessary to turing completeness right?
01:41:44 <oerjan> quite the opposite, with no max you need only 3 cells.
01:42:12 <oerjan> with a max you need infinitely many cells.
01:42:30 <oerjan> (although the max can be just 1)
01:44:08 <astoxenous> I was just trying to reduce my esolang to bf to prove turing completeness. and I found that the lack of a max cell value to be the only difference.
01:44:15 <astoxenous> why do you only need three?
01:45:25 <boily> three shalt be the number thou shalt count to.
01:45:35 <oerjan> see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function
01:46:47 <shachaf> oerjan: is there a variant that requires uncountably many cells twh
01:46:57 <oerjan> shachaf: TRICKY
01:49:00 <oerjan> i keep forgetting whether we've conclusively proved 2 isn't enough.
01:54:19 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The max (non-inclusive) is 1. Is it TC?
01:55:44 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Does having uncountably many cells actually make sense? (pleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayyespleasesayjes)
01:56:32 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( It's uncountably finite )
01:57:20 <shachaf> In constructive logic, a subset of a finite set isn't necessarily finite.
01:57:34 <shachaf> In fact that's equivalent to LEM?
01:59:43 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: NOPE
02:00:03 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...wtf how does that work
02:00:59 <int-e> shachaf: what's your definition of "finite"?
02:01:58 <shachaf> I don't remember which definition that was.
02:02:18 <shachaf> Injection from naturals < n maybe?
02:02:43 <shachaf> @google Andrej Bauer finite sets constructive
02:02:45 <lambdabot> http://math.andrej.com/2009/09/07/constructive-stone-finite-sets/
02:02:45 <lambdabot> Title: Constructive stone: finite sets | Mathematics and Computation
02:03:15 <shachaf> That page, or another one.
02:03:28 <shachaf> @google Andrej Bauer five steps pdf
02:03:30 <lambdabot> http://www.ams.org/bull/0000-000-00/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4/
02:03:31 <lambdabot> Title: Bulletin of the American Mathematical Society
02:03:49 <shachaf> Typing on phone, can't look right now.
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02:05:20 <izabera> happy new year!
02:05:36 <izabera> can you believe it? this earth is now 2017 years old
02:05:41 <izabera> time flies
02:06:06 <oerjan> `wisdom flies
02:06:10 <HackEgo> That's not wise.
02:06:16 <oerjan> `quote flies
02:06:18 <HackEgo> No output.
02:06:22 <oerjan> hmph
02:06:26 <oerjan> `wisdom time
02:06:28 <HackEgo> timecube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HORU ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wron
02:08:23 <oerjan> `grwp flies
02:08:32 <HackEgo> butterfly:While some might think butterflies are descended from flies, that is a false entomology. \ Binary file reflection matches
02:10:05 <int-e> hmm, butterfiles
02:10:10 <int-e> shachaf: thanks
02:11:25 <boily> butter chicken is a good thing.
02:11:35 <hppavilion[1]> `gwni flies
02:11:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/butterfly \ wisdom/reflection
02:15:33 <shachaf> boily: I don't agree.
02:15:45 <shachaf> `cwlprits butterfly
02:15:53 <HackEgo> oerjän
02:16:01 <shachaf> Figures.
02:18:01 <boily> shachaf: chana masala?
02:18:18 <shachaf> Sounds fine.
02:27:15 <FreeFull> 2017 doesn't seem any different so far
02:28:51 <int-e> more prime
02:29:05 <int-e> (than 2016)
02:29:17 <izabera> are there degrees of primeness?
02:29:36 <shachaf> Of course.
02:29:41 <boily> izabellora. indeed.
02:29:49 <izabera> is that just the number of divisors?
02:30:08 <izabera> fewer divisors -> more prime?
02:30:09 <int-e> izabera: actually there is a concept of semiprimes
02:30:30 <int-e> but actually I'm happy to call "true" more true than "false"
02:30:42 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_prime
02:31:23 <FreeFull> 2017 is only divisible by 1 and 2017
02:31:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[INTERCAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50612&oldid=36183 * Ais523 * (-13) /* External resources */ fix a broken link
02:31:26 <FreeFull> So it's as prime as it gets
02:31:49 <ais523> after 2017, the next prime year is 2027
02:37:37 <FreeFull> 2011 was prime too
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02:37:45 <FreeFull> And 2029 is prime
02:38:08 <FreeFull> 1993 1997 1999 2003 2011 2017 2027 2029 2039 2053 2063 2069 2081 2083 2087
02:43:18 <Zarutian> but 2020 is the year of hindsight, no?
02:44:39 <Zarutian> say wasnt there an befunge variant that used something like fractal maze of nearly-torus playfield-tiles?
02:45:55 <int-e> oh, here's a thing you couldn't do with 2011: 2017 is the sum of two primes (and consequently, composite in the Gaussian integers: 2017 = (9 + 44i)*(9 - 44i)).
02:48:05 <int-e> (1997 was the previous prime = 1 (mod 4))
02:57:52 <boily> time to go watch the year end specials...
02:58:48 <boily> Bonne année à tous, profitez de 2017, soyez en santé, plein d'affaires de même, une bonne pelletée de trémas à travers, et à la revoyure!
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03:06:18 <oerjan> int-e: itym two squares, no?
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04:01:26 <int-e> oerjan: yes indeed.
04:04:45 <\oren\> 1 hour to 2017
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04:34:41 <zzo38> Does any X server allow you to emulate arbitrary visuals?
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04:44:25 <zzo38> I have thought of a kind of hardware design to implement arbitrary X visuals. There are 32 planes; the high six planes select one of 64 palettes. Palette 0 is fixed. Palette 63 is also used for sprites, of which there are 16, of size 16x16 each, with 3 colours each. Each palette also has a red_mask, green_mask, and blue_mask value; each mask is eight consecutive bits aligned to a 4-bit boundary, and are allowed to overlap. You can index the channel
04:45:41 <zzo38> And then there would also be the hardware plane mask, which allows the blitter to only write some planes, according to your choice.
04:46:41 <ais523> I think most if not all X servers allow you to set arbitrary onscreen pixels to arbitrary colours, so they have the same ability to produce images as the hardware does
04:47:00 <ais523> (here the hardware includes the video card in addition to the screen)
04:47:54 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, although you may be limited to a TrueColor visual with the channels in one order. What I meant is if it can emulate any visual class and convert it to the format needed by the hardware.
04:47:57 <ais523> int-e: is the condition that implies for being Gaussian-integer-prime (prime and not the sum of two primes) both necessary and sufficient?
04:48:46 <zzo38> (Although I think that a kind of hardware like I describe above would help so that you really can define any visual you want and implement it in hardware instead of having to do it in software.)
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05:02:36 <\oren\> VA-11 Hall-A is a great game
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05:06:50 <wob_jonas> Happy New Year to the East Coast of the US.
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05:08:24 <\oren\> yup!
05:08:32 <\oren\> Me too!
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08:34:42 <zzo38> I have added the "file=" option into my GURPS character calculation program, because this option is necessary on Windows (I don't know why, but using fs.readFileSync(0) on Windows results in a EBADF error).
08:36:33 <zzo38> Do you know why it has that problem?
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09:24:59 <shachaf> `uname -r
09:25:23 <HackEgo> 3.13.0-umlbox
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15:57:01 <boily> børjan matin!
15:58:12 <oerjan> bodt nilytt år!
15:59:29 <oerjan> (today doing the proper greeting.)
16:02:39 <boily> did I wish you a bonne oerjannée already?
16:02:55 <oerjan> not sure
16:03:38 <oerjan> i may have left before you passed into the new year
16:04:12 <oerjan> i think you greeted everyone equally
16:04:19 <boily> ah! that I did.
16:05:56 <oerjan> i'm still wondering what "trémas à travers" means, google seemed to think it was about umlauts.
16:06:25 <oerjan> but got confused when i removed the surrounding parts
16:07:50 <boily> I wished “Happy New Year y'all, enjoy 2017, be healthy, all that kind of stuff, a good shovelfull of scattered umlauts, and see you soon!”
16:09:25 <oerjan> very sensible
16:10:21 <boily> tsé ^^
16:11:31 <zgrep> boily: "a göod¨shövelfüll öf¨scätterëd ümläuts"
16:11:59 <boily> zgrellop! that's the spirit!
16:25:13 <zgrep> `ümläüt Indeed it is.
16:25:15 <HackEgo> Ïn̈d̈ëëd̈ ̈ïẗ ̈ïs̈.̈
16:34:42 <rdococ> yay!
16:34:49 <rdococ> HackEgo: hello
16:35:02 * rdococ wonders if HackEgo has a big Ego
16:35:37 <zgrep> It certainly has a Hack Ego.
16:36:17 <rdococ> heh.
16:41:15 * rdococ hacks its ego
16:41:28 <oerjan> `doag bin/ümläüt
16:41:43 <HackEgo> 10075:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` chmod +x bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10074:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` mv IdOF bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10072:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` chmod +x bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10071:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` mv DOOB bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3\xbct \ 10069:2017-01-01 <zgrëp> ` chmod +x bin/\xc3\xbcml\xc3\xa4\xc3
16:42:01 * oerjan swats zgrep for modifying HackEgo in private -----###
16:42:15 <rdococ> how RUDE
16:42:25 <zgrep> It's not as rude to spam the chat with my failed attempts?
16:43:03 <oerjan> `dots Also we have a lighter variant already.
16:43:05 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dots: not found
16:43:11 <oerjan> `döts Also we have a lighter variant already.
16:43:12 <HackEgo> ​Älsö ẅë ḧävë ä lïgḧẗër värïänẗ älrëädÿ.
16:43:26 <zgrep> I see. Not as dotful.
16:43:51 <zgrep> `döts This is a test.
16:43:52 <zgrep> `döts This is a test.
16:43:54 <HackEgo> Tḧïs ïs ä ẗësẗ.
16:43:55 <HackEgo> Tḧïs ïs ä ẗësẗ.
16:44:10 <oerjan> `file bin/ümläüt
16:44:14 <HackEgo> bin/ümläüt: Python script, ASCII text executable
16:44:17 <zgrep> Oh, is it just tr for some things?
16:44:24 <oerjan> pretty much.
16:44:27 <int-e> ich bin/umlaut?
16:44:27 <zgrep> Ah.
16:45:24 <oerjan> `cat bin/ümläüt
16:45:25 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ if len(sys.argv) != 2: \ print('Incorrect usage.') \ exit(1) \ o = u"".encode("utf-8") \ for c in sys.argv[1]: \ o += c.encode("utf-8") \ o += u"\u0308".encode("utf-8") \ print(o)
16:46:58 <oerjan> `ümläüt Døs this wørk
16:47:00 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/ümläüt", line 8, in <module> \ o += c.encode("utf-8") \ UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
16:47:05 <zgrep> Haha.
16:47:20 <zgrep> Python 2 isn't great with unicode... :(
16:47:29 <oerjan> `döts Døs this wørk
16:47:30 <HackEgo> Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk
16:47:40 <zgrep> `` cat `which dots`
16:47:45 <oerjan> oh right, it doesn't even try
16:48:11 <zgrep> `python --version
16:48:11 <HackEgo> No output.
16:48:13 <HackEgo> Python 2.7.3
16:48:24 <zgrep> `` cat `which döts`
16:48:25 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/"
16:48:36 <zgrep> I see.
16:48:55 <oerjan> `` echo This works as a pipe too | döts
16:48:56 <HackEgo> Tḧïs ẅörks äs ä pïpë ẗöö
16:49:04 <zgrep> Hmm...
16:51:39 <oerjan> `` ls bin/*or_input
16:51:41 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/shebang_args_or_input
16:52:05 <oerjan> `cat bin/shebang_args_or_input
16:52:06 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ interp="$1"; script="$2"; shift 2; if [ "$#" -eq 1 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$1"; elif [ "$#" -eq 0 ]; then cat; fi | { shift; $interp "$script" "$@"; }
16:52:18 <oerjan> oh it was that complicated
16:52:37 <zgrep> sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:53:38 <oerjan> noping nearly does that.
16:54:05 <zgrep> `` echo "Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk" | sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:54:07 <HackEgo> D̈ø̈s̈ ̈ẗ̈ḧ̈ï̈s̈ ̈ẅ̈ø̈r̈k̈
16:54:13 <zgrep> It does! :D
16:54:43 <oerjan> ``` echo "Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk" | sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:54:46 <HackEgo> D̈Ã̈¸Ìˆs̈ ̈á̈ºÌˆ—̈á̈¸Ìˆ§ÌˆÃ̈¯Ìˆs̈ ̈á̈ºÌˆ…̈Ã̈¸Ìˆr̈k̈
16:54:52 <oerjan> locale-dependently.
16:55:02 <zgrep> ``` echo "Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk"
16:55:02 <HackEgo> Døs ẗḧïs ẅørk
16:55:24 <oerjan> `cat bin/`
16:55:25 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
16:55:39 <zgrep> `cat bin/``
16:55:41 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
16:55:51 <oerjan> oh it's ``` that changes it.
16:56:38 <oerjan> `mkx bin/ümläüt//print_args_or_input "$@" | sed 's/./&̈/g'
16:56:43 <HackEgo> bin/ümläüt
16:56:56 <zgrep> `cat bin/mkx
16:56:58 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
16:57:06 <zgrep> `cat bin/mk
16:57:13 <HackEgo> ​[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
16:57:13 <oerjan> `ümläüt Whøt abøut this
16:57:13 <HackEgo> Ẅḧø̈ẗ ̈äb̈ø̈üẗ ̈ẗḧïs̈
16:57:41 <oerjan> WE HAFF TOOLS
16:58:40 <zgrep> `engrávé
16:58:43 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: engrávé: not found
16:58:58 <zgrep> Whoops, wrong way.
16:59:45 <zgrep> èngràvè
17:00:34 <oerjan> `ümläüt '
17:00:35 <HackEgo> ​'̈
17:00:46 <zgrep> `echo '`̀'
17:00:47 <HackEgo> ​'`̀'
17:00:56 <oerjan> `` grep -r '̈' bin
17:01:03 <HackEgo> Binary file bin/emmental matches \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ bin/hlnp:scowrevs="$(/usr/bin/paste -sd'|' share/scowrevs)"; hg log -r "tip:0 & ! ($scowrevs)" "$@" | sed 's/\(\(^\| \)[<Itb][^ ]*\)\([^ ][^ ]\)/\1̈\3/' \ Binary file bin/searchlog matches \ bin/ümläüt:print_args_or_input "$@" | sed 's/./&̈/g' \ bin/dedot:print_args_or_input "$
17:01:10 <boily> gràvè, áćúté, ĉîrĉûmflêx, çȩḑiļļa, ǫgǫnęk.
17:01:24 <oerjan> `2 grep -r '̈' bin
17:01:33 <HackEgo> 2/2:gs_or_input "$@" | sed 's.̈..g' \ Binary file bin/7za matches \ Binary file bin/tclkit matches
17:01:48 <zgrep> `mkx bin/`̀//echo "This should probably do something, but it does not."
17:01:51 <HackEgo> bin/`̀
17:02:03 <oerjan> AAAAAAA
17:02:03 <zgrep> ``̀
17:02:04 <HackEgo> This should probably do something, but it does not.
17:02:07 <zgrep> `` ls
17:02:11 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ index.html \ index.html.1 \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test1 \ test2 \ tmflry \ tmp \ wdiff-latest.tar.gz \ wisdom
17:02:21 <zgrep> :)
17:24:24 <int-e> `unidecode `̀/
17:24:26 <HackEgo> ​[U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] [U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT] [U+002F SOLIDUS]
17:26:34 <int-e> `? örjan
17:26:35 <HackEgo> ​Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters.
17:27:01 <int-e> `? örjan
17:27:03 <HackEgo> örjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:27:17 <int-e> `thanks unicode
17:27:21 <HackEgo> Thanks, unicode. Thunicode.
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18:39:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Syms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50613&oldid=49765 * CatIsFluffy * (-115)
18:43:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Al Dente examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50614&oldid=49823 * CatIsFluffy * (+45) fix indentation issues (I wish this language was more popular)
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19:50:49 <int-e> oh. "February 30 was a real date in Sweden in 1712."
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19:55:55 <zzo38> I didn't know that
20:03:14 <pikhq> Oh yes, because they decided to do a *gradual* shift to the Gregorian calendar over 40 years by skipping all leap days, and then cancelled it and reverted by adding *two* leap days.
20:04:37 <shachaf> should i use kubernetes twh
20:05:56 <pikhq> And this shit is why cal(1) has such a shitty and not very useless spec.
20:06:59 <pikhq> cal(1) is specified to do the Gregorian calendar from 1752 on, include the British transition in September from Julian, and... utterly unspecified what it does on earlier dates.
20:07:31 <pikhq> *Probably* the sanest choice is to do Julian and proleptic Julian for earlier dates, but...
20:08:18 <shachaf> But who cares about dates before 1752?
20:08:30 <pikhq> Historians, mostly.
20:09:02 <pikhq> I find it frankly a little silly the spec includes the Sep. 1752 transition, rather than just permitting proleptic Gregorian.
20:09:13 <FireFly> isn't it reasonably sane to just extend Gregorian back forever?
20:09:26 <shachaf> HireFly
20:09:27 <pikhq> That's called "proleptic Gregorian", and yes, it's moderately sane.
20:09:46 <FireFly> Considering not every country switched to Gregorian simultaneously anyway
20:09:47 <pikhq> Historians get grumpy unless you *say* that's what you're doing, but it's not unreasonable to do so.
20:09:58 <FireFly> Ah
20:10:04 <FireFly> That's sensible enough
20:10:09 <shachaf> Has anyone asked Gregor's opinion?
20:10:15 <FireFly> or Ian's
20:10:22 <FireFly> hachaf
20:10:29 <pikhq> If you *don't* say historians will generally assume you're using the contextually-appropriate calendar instead.
20:10:49 <pikhq> (but be slightly grumpy because you didn't say what calendar you were using, because that can really matter)
20:10:58 <shachaf> Do you extend leap seconds into the past too?
20:11:12 <FireFly> Good question I suppose
20:11:45 <pikhq> No, leap seconds were ill defined prior to 1972.
20:12:48 <Gregor> Guys, guys, this problem is easily solved.
20:13:01 <Gregor> Just use the same system as Kelvin, but applied to the Unix timestamp.
20:13:09 <Gregor> The beginning of time is the epoch (because, y'know, it is)
20:13:09 <pikhq> Trying to be more exact than 1 day with historical dates and times, while not always *impossible*, is really quite hard.
20:13:36 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, I forgot Gregor was back among the living.
20:13:44 <FireFly> Reanimated?
20:13:55 <Gregor> Also ignore the fact that counting time linearly from the big bang is nonsense because of relativity.
20:13:56 <shachaf> Are you supposed to account for relativity with this scheme?
20:13:59 <Gregor> Hahah
20:14:19 <FireFly> int-e> oh. "February 30 was a real date in Sweden in 1712." ← oh right, I had forgotten about the swedish calendar
20:14:37 <FireFly> It was quite the mistake
20:14:55 <pikhq> Heck, with the pre-Julian Roman calendar we're barely certain of what proleptic Gregorian *years* some dates fall in.
20:16:04 <Gregor> My ticks-since-the-big-bang system works fine for this if you express time in scientific notation, so your number of significant digits is made clear.
20:16:15 <Gregor> And definitely doesn't create more confusion than it solves.
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20:26:49 * rdococ appears in all of his stupor
20:34:28 <zzo38> I think that John Dee wanted to gradually shift to Gregorian calendar earlier, but the British royalty did not want to because they hate the Catholic chutch. Dee was not Catholic either but he wanted to because he thought the Gregorian calendar is a good idea, not because the church did it.
20:36:29 <rdococ> I don't see much importance in months to be honest. I think sailors may have used it to navigate at night, but don't they have the stars for that...?
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22:53:41 <hppavilion[1]> I've just used AutoHotKey to improve my keyboard by 10000000000000 ppb
22:53:57 <hppavilion[1]> s/keyboard/clipboard/
22:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> I added clipglue with ^g, which appends a selection to my clipboard rather than overwriting it (as with ^c)
22:55:37 <hppavilion[1]> And more importantly, I added a clipstack; normally ^c and ^x clobber your clipboard, but with a clipstack they instead push a new value onto it; ^v pastes the result of PEEK, ^V/^+v pastes the result of POP
22:56:20 <hppavilion[1]> (an editing feature is available through ^e- backspace drops the top value, \ swaps the top two, ] and [ will roll the deque, et cetera)
22:58:05 <^v> .-.
23:05:11 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: what?
23:05:15 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, xD
23:05:23 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: It's your own fault.
23:05:30 <^v> nah
23:05:35 <^v> what if my name was ping
23:05:35 <rdococ> yay
23:05:40 <^v> is it my fault if i get pinged?
23:05:44 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: yes hth
23:05:49 <\oren\> Good everning!
23:05:50 <^v> im ping on esper lol
23:05:58 <rdococ> I'm back for another round of shlFFy esolang making
23:06:29 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Choosing a name that's likely to be typed in unrelated contexts automatically forfeits your right to be annoyed by irrelevant pings
23:06:32 <hppavilion[1]> Right, \oren\?
23:06:59 <^v> hppavilion[1], what if someone was talking about hp pavilions
23:06:59 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Dammit, should've pinged somebody inactive for irony purposes )
23:07:01 <^v> and you got pinged?
23:07:03 <^v> checkmate.
23:07:13 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: That would be my fault and I'd not be upset.
23:07:38 <^v> i can only conclude you are not human
23:07:41 <^v> checkmate
23:07:42 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Also, I'd only get pinged if they typed hppavilion[1]- which is not normal- or one of my alternate pings, which I can turn off.
23:07:48 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Correct.
23:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> I DO have 'hp' set to ping since people have a habit of abbreviating, but that can be turned off if it gets annoying
23:08:33 <hppavilion[1]> Worse, people often abbreviate as the non-canonical 'hppa' instead of the correct 'hp' abbreviation ;-;
23:09:18 <^v> i always take the hpp = c++header
23:09:26 <^v> at first glance
23:10:08 <hppavilion[1]> ^v: Of course you do.
23:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> I'm considering changing nicks, since hppavilion[1] has too much baggage associated
23:10:26 <rdococ> hppa, the "hppa" abbreviation would avoid unnecessary pinging as "hp" would cause.
23:10:36 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Well yeah, but it's non-canonical
23:10:43 <rdococ> non-canonical?
23:10:48 <hppavilion[1]> And how would you pronounce that?
23:11:05 <rdococ> your nickname is NOT a work of fiction
23:11:11 <rdococ> how can it have a canon?
23:11:24 <hppavilion[1]> Well, I guess as [hæ.pʌ], but still
23:11:35 * rdococ will talk about video games more often here to ping hp
23:11:45 <rdococ> my hp is low in [insert game here]
23:11:53 <hppavilion[1]> If I replaced hppavilion variants, it'd be something derived like hppavillain[1] (which I tried out once) or somesuch
23:11:56 <rdococ> I have a hp
23:11:58 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes, that too
23:12:09 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ...apparently, I turned off pinging 'hp'
23:12:19 <rdococ> ...
23:12:19 <hppavilion[1]> I do ping on hppaviliøn[1]
23:12:29 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I don't remember when I did this
23:12:35 <rdococ> just let your abbreviation be hppa
23:12:47 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: NO
23:12:52 <rdococ> YES
23:12:57 <hppavilion[1]> (...and yet I ping on hppa...)
23:13:01 * rdococ will now create fanfiction about hppavilion[1]'s canon
23:13:07 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Honestly, I'd prefer if people would just tab it in
23:13:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:13:22 <rdococ> like this?: HackEgo
23:13:23 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I'll make it all canonical so it can't be fanon mwahahahahahahaha
23:13:34 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], you mean hppa will be canon?
23:13:40 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: ...except that?
23:13:50 <rdococ> but that will then be fanon'd
23:13:55 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It'll be canonically rude, how about that?
23:14:06 <hppavilion[1]> It's canon, but it's also offensive
23:14:07 <hppavilion[1]> >:)
23:14:07 <rdococ> and fanonically polite
23:14:13 <rdococ> whatever hppa
23:14:20 <rdococ> new way to insult you is good
23:15:02 <rdococ> heh heh heh
23:15:13 <rdococ> hppa
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23:19:49 <\oren\> Ha, this character's name is stella hoshi?! Hello miss star star
23:22:22 <FireFly> is she the star of the show?
23:24:19 <rdococ> hppa
23:25:32 <zzo38> In order to receive input from stdin as events in SDL what I have done is to use another client to notify SDL by using XSendEvent. This does not work if X window system is not in use though.
23:26:12 <zzo38> (Although, conditional compilation can be used in order to work it on other systems too, in whatever way they require.)
23:28:12 <\oren\> FireFly: not a show, a game
23:28:22 <\oren\> VA-11 Hall-A
23:29:46 <FireFly> Ah
23:35:47 <izabera> https://asciinema.org/a/97804 someone explain me what's happening here
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23:36:01 <izabera> i broke something
23:36:03 <izabera> but i don't know what
23:37:40 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: What are you cat'ing? Does cat work without arguments??
23:38:12 <izabera> yes
23:38:14 <izabera> it reads from a terminal
23:39:54 * hppavilion[1] . ø Ø ( There should be a piece of programmer punctuation for conjugating verbed commands, but I don't know what it should be. ' is natural, but it's already VERY overloaded. _ doesn't work because it's often part of commands and the same applies to -. Maybe |?? )
23:40:04 <hppavilion[1]> _ is uppercase ?
23:44:17 <FireFly> Isn't cat, especially in #esoteric, canonically essentially "copy input to output"
23:44:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:45:17 <int-e> `? cat
23:45:20 <int-e> `cat canary
23:45:47 <HackEgo> No output.
23:45:47 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
23:46:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:46:31 <int-e> `` cat canary canary # ha ha.
23:46:33 <HackEgo> No output.
23:46:37 <hppavilion[1]> `? Denmark
23:46:39 <HackEgo> Denmark? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:46:49 <hppavilion[1]> `? Danish
23:46:51 <HackEgo> Danish? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:47:15 <int-e> Hlloerjan
23:47:18 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn Danish//In Danish, the word for "island" is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons.
23:47:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'danish': In Danish, the word for "island" is just "ø" for øfficiency reasons.
23:47:25 <int-e> `grwp proper
23:47:35 <HackEgo> cdop:CDOP is OCPD, except with the letters in the *proper* order. \ group:Groups are just loops with the property of associativity. \ halfling:Halflings are genericized hobbits for intellectual property reasons. \ intellectual property:Intellectual property is either the plot of land where a university campus is or otherwise a property which gives
23:47:51 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: gwni works better if you just need it to print the names
23:47:58 <oerjan> hint-ello
23:50:29 <oerjan> `2 grwp proper
23:50:33 <HackEgo> 2/5:y which gives something an intellectual air or appearance. \ keenlist:keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast \ kithkin:Kithkins are genericized halflings for intellectual property reasons, except they al
23:52:26 <oerjan> `gwni proper[^t]
23:52:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/cdop \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/rules of wisdom \ wisdom/unicide \ wisdom/www
23:52:34 <hppavilion[1]> `gwni proper
23:52:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/cdop \ wisdom/group \ wisdom/halfling \ wisdom/intellectual property \ wisdom/keenlist \ wisdom/kithkin \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/rules of wisdom \ wisdom/sanity \ wisdom/termite \ wisdom/treant \ wisdom/treefolk \ wisdom/unicide \ wisdom/universal property \ wisdom/vegemite \ wisdom/www
23:52:49 <hppavilion[1]> Hymn, wait
23:52:58 <hppavilion[1]> Why does it print wisdom/ before every one? I thought I fixed that
23:53:00 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/gwni
23:53:01 <HackEgo> grep -ERlis "$@" wisdom/*
23:53:47 <oerjan> it was rather subtle to get it to it properly, as you can see in `grwp
23:53:53 <oerjan> *to do it
23:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> `cat grwp
23:54:05 <HackEgo> cat: grwp: No such file or directory
23:54:09 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/grwp
23:54:10 <HackEgo> ​#! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- *
23:54:15 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes, just a cd in there
23:54:49 <oerjan> the rest is to make it not ignore dotfiles
23:54:56 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo 'cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" *' > bin/gwni
23:55:00 <HackEgo> No output.
23:55:03 <oerjan> not sure we've gor eny, though.
23:55:03 <hppavilion[1]> `gwni proper
23:55:06 <HackEgo> cdop \ group \ halfling \ intellectual property \ keenlist \ kithkin \ reflection \ rules of wisdom \ sanity \ termite \ treant \ treefolk \ unicide \ universal property \ vegemite \ www
23:55:09 <oerjan> *any
23:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> I don't think the newlines are really necessary...
23:55:38 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/*
23:55:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/` \ wisdom/`? \ wisdom/`? `? \ wisdom/^ \ wisdom/ \ wisdom/_̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ wisdom/! \ wisdom/? \ wisdom/?? \ wisdom/¿ \ wisdom/@ \ wisdom/* \ wisdom/\ \ wisdom/☃ \ wisdom/⊥ \ wisdom/ꙮ \ wisdom/⌨ \ wisdom/  \ wisdom/☾_ \ wisdom/𝕈 \ wisdom/🐐 \ wisdom/🐚
23:55:43 <hppavilion[1]> I'd remove them, but I'm afraid I'll screw something up
23:55:55 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, I forgot about exempli gratia "universal property"
23:56:03 <hppavilion[1]> Newlines are for the best, I guess.
23:56:20 <hppavilion[1]> (comma-separating might work, but still may lead to ambiguity)
23:56:22 <\oren\> `unicode 🐐
23:56:25 <HackEgo> U+1F410 GOAT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 90 UTF-16BE: d83ddc10 Decimal: &#128016; \ 🐐 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
23:56:39 <hppavilion[1]> ...I was not aware there was a unicode goat
23:56:43 <hppavilion[1]> `? 🐐
23:56:45 <HackEgo> ​🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.)
23:56:58 <hppavilion[1]> ;-;
23:57:23 <hppavilion[1]> It's \oren\'s fault
23:57:59 <oerjan> `learn -v *MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:02 <HackEgo> Learned '-v': -v *MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:11 <oerjan> `gwni proper
23:58:14 <HackEgo> ​` \ `? \ `? `? \ ^ \ \ _̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ @ \ * \ \ \ ☃ \ ⊥ \ ꙮ \ ⌨ \   \ ☾_ \ 𝕈 \ 🐐 \ 🐚 \ ᛁᚿ \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_̿̊ͣ̉ͣ
23:58:27 <oerjan> HackEgo: that's what the -- is for hth
23:58:40 <\oren\> eventually I'll add emoji, but none of their stupid combinige emoji modifiers because I don't want to learn how to do color fonts
23:58:46 <oerjan> `le/rn -v//*MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:49 <HackEgo> Relearned '-v': *MWAHAHAHA*
23:58:55 <int-e> fungot: please improve our sanity
23:58:56 <fungot> int-e: on 16 and 17 april 2003, on his magnificent work ' fnord au fnord de la coordination fnord and by philippe de villiers against the commission is aware of it.
23:59:08 <int-e> uhm
23:59:10 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Using just pixelly rendering is an acceptable alternative
23:59:10 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i just broke your `gwni hth
23:59:10 <int-e> ^style
23:59:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
23:59:16 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes you did ;-;
23:59:19 <hppavilion[1]> `gwni proper
23:59:21 <HackEgo> ​` \ `? \ `? `? \ ^ \ \ _̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ @ \ * \ \ \ ☃ \ ⊥ \ ꙮ \ ⌨ \   \ ☾_ \ 𝕈 \ 🐐 \ 🐚 \ ᛁᚿ \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_̿̊ͣ̉ͣ
23:59:28 <int-e> oh, that style...
23:59:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's what the -- was for
23:59:31 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/gwni
23:59:32 <HackEgo> cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" *
23:59:45 <hppavilion[1]> `which gwni
23:59:46 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/gwni
00:00:04 <oerjan> `` grwp -l proper
00:00:08 <HackEgo> cdop \ group \ halfling \ intellectual property \ keenlist \ kithkin \ reflection \ rules of wisdom \ sanity \ termite \ treant \ treefolk \ unicide \ universal property \ vegemite \ www
00:00:31 <int-e> `? keenlist
00:00:32 <HackEgo> keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
00:00:42 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo 'cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERlis "$@" -- *' > bin/gwni
00:00:49 <HackEgo> No output.
00:00:50 <hppavilion[1]> `gwni proper
00:00:51 <HackEgo> cdop \ group \ halfling \ intellectual property \ keenlist \ kithkin \ reflection \ rules of wisdom \ sanity \ termite \ treant \ treefolk \ unicide \ universal property \ vegemite \ www
00:00:56 * oerjan vaguely wonders if there are any other commands broken by the -visdom
00:00:58 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: there tdh
00:01:03 <hppavilion[1]> `cat gwni
00:01:04 <HackEgo> cat: gwni: No such file or directory
00:01:11 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/gwn
00:01:12 <HackEgo> grep -ERls "$@" wisdom/*
00:01:29 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo 'cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -ERls "$@" -- *' > bin/gwn
00:01:33 <HackEgo> No output.
00:04:18 <oerjan> <HackEgo> ​🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) <-- i render it fine tyvm * hides missing hind legs
00:06:21 <oerjan> `` cd wisdom; ls *
00:06:30 <HackEgo> 0 \ 1 \ 1*1 \ 4chan \ 4rn4 \ 6 random numbers \ 7 \ 9 \ 21 \ 42 \ 323 \ 1337 \ 2600 \ XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR \ a \ aah \ abbreviation \ abnf \ abstract nonsense \ abyss \ acab \ accounting \ action \ adjective \ admn \ adopted \ adu \ adventure \ advertisement \ afk \ agdq \ aglist \ aha \ ais523 \ algebraic chess notation \ algebraic geometry \ algebrai
00:06:35 <hppavilion[1]> `? 4chan
00:06:37 <HackEgo> 4chan is twice as loud as stereo.
00:07:01 <hppavilion[1]> If there was an oerjan calculator, it'd have to end every message with 'hth'
00:07:10 <hppavilion[1]> (Is that oerjan or someone else who had to put a hth remover?)
00:07:18 <oerjan> `forget -v
00:07:21 <HackEgo> Forget what?
00:07:34 <oerjan> it was probably too evil
00:08:34 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: me hth
00:09:13 <hppavilion[1]> Thought so
00:13:07 <rdococ> `? hppavilion[1]
00:13:09 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. Él aspira a ser más incomprensible que esta sabiduría.
00:13:16 <rdococ> `? rdococ
00:13:17 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
00:13:22 <rdococ> still apparently from Budapest.
00:15:15 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently Nørway's legislature is called the "Storting"
00:15:19 <hppavilion[1]> ("The Great Thing")
00:15:33 <rdococ> øøø
00:15:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I assume the political parties of its members are determined by the Storting Hat?
00:16:09 <hppavilion[1]> Or, Storting Hatt
00:17:10 <oerjan> not really hth
00:17:17 * oerjan doesn't get the reference
00:17:34 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...wat
00:17:48 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Does Norway not have Harry Potter‽
00:18:11 <rdococ> hppaviliøn
00:18:13 <oerjan> oh. yes.
00:18:28 <oerjan> with their own translated names and everything.
00:18:31 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined.
00:18:43 <oerjan> (iirc Dumbledore is Humlesnurr)
00:19:42 * oerjan looks at hppavilion[1] sternly for disconnecting in the midst of conversation
00:20:33 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], will you please decide whether your arrays start with 0 or 1 please?!
00:20:38 <hppavilion[0]> oerjan: I had to switch wifi
00:20:42 <hppavilion[0]> rdococ: They always start with 0
00:20:57 <hppavilion[0]> oerjan: Sorting Hat -> Storting Hat
00:21:03 <fizzie> oerjan: Finnish translation translates names as well.
00:21:04 <rdococ> hppavilion[1], why are you hppavilion[1] then, and then your alt is hppavilion[0] for when you disconnect?
00:21:04 <oerjan> anyway, Fremskrittspartiet would obviously be Slytherin. i'm not too clear on the rest of the houses. (i've never actually _read_ harry potter.)
00:21:14 <fizzie> Although the only name I remember is Hogwarts -> Tylypahka.
00:21:15 <rdococ> do your arrays go BACKWARDS from 1?
00:21:18 <rdococ> 1, 0, -1, -2?
00:21:28 <hppavilion[0]> ("Storting Hat" being the English name of the... well, the sorting hat. The hat that sorts.)
00:21:58 <shachaf> You mean the hat that storts?
00:21:58 <hppavilion[0]> rdococ: Because the element in hppavilion[1] is a better user; hppavilion[0] is the backup, inferior user
00:22:09 <shachaf> Presumably the opposite of distorting
00:22:10 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: ...sure
00:22:29 <rdococ> and this is hppavilion[0] saying he's inferior?
00:22:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:22:30 <hppavilion[0]> "Sorting Hat" is the English name, not "Storting Hat"
00:22:34 <hppavilion[0]> rdococ: Yes
00:22:36 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
00:22:36 <hppavilion[1]> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
00:23:32 <rdococ> YOU MEAN #hppavilion == 1?
00:23:45 -!- augur has joined.
00:23:47 <rdococ> or len(hppavilion) = 1?
00:23:53 <rdococ> but hppavilion[0]!
00:24:02 <rdococ> ooh
00:24:05 <rdococ> I have an idea
00:24:16 <rdococ> the element in hppavilion[2] is an even BETTER user. go for that
00:24:46 <int-e> `? 1*1
00:24:49 <HackEgo> 1*1 is two.
00:24:59 <int-e> `cwlprits 1*1
00:25:07 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: also Iceland's legislature is Alþingi, which means "all thing" hth
00:25:15 <HackEgo> mromän
00:25:18 <rdococ> `? 1/1
00:25:19 <HackEgo> 1/1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:25:22 <rdococ> what?!
00:25:26 <rdococ> you don't know 1/1 = 0?
00:25:29 <rdococ> ridiculous
00:25:35 <rdococ> `learn 1/1 2
00:25:36 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/1/1: Not a directory \ Learned '1/1': 1/1 2
00:25:41 <rdococ> uh
00:25:46 <rdococ> `? 1.1
00:25:48 <HackEgo> 1.1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:25:48 <rdococ> `? 1/1
00:25:49 <HackEgo> 1/1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:26:02 <rdococ> `learn 1/1 is zero.
00:26:03 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/1/1: Not a directory \ Learned '1/1': 1/1 is zero.
00:26:08 <rdococ> `? 1/1
00:26:09 <HackEgo> 1/1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:26:11 <rdococ> ...
00:26:17 <rdococ> `learn 1 divided by 1 is 0
00:26:20 <HackEgo> Relearned '1': 1 divided by 1 is 0
00:26:21 <rdococ> `? 1
00:26:23 <rdococ> UH OH
00:26:24 <HackEgo> 1 divided by 1 is 0
00:26:24 <int-e> `revert
00:26:26 <HackEgo> Done.
00:26:28 <rdococ> `? 1
00:26:29 <HackEgo> The 1 is just for disambiguation.
00:26:33 <rdococ> `? 2
00:26:34 <HackEgo> 2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:26:43 <shachaf> Maybe just don't do it?
00:26:51 <rdococ> :c
00:26:56 * rdococ wanted to be an #esotericer
00:27:17 <int-e> `grwp Twain
00:27:17 <rdococ> what about 2?
00:27:25 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
00:27:29 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: No, len(hppavilion) == ε_π
00:27:30 <shachaf> The trick is writing a bunch of limericks.
00:27:31 <rdococ> `? rdococ
00:27:32 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
00:27:32 <int-e> rdococ: the key is less important than the contents
00:27:49 <shachaf> What int-e said.
00:27:53 * hppavilion[1] spent too long looking for the best number for that
00:27:55 <rdococ> uh
00:27:59 * hppavilion[1] eventually gave up and went with that
00:28:12 <rdococ> ε_π?
00:28:15 <rdococ> what is ε_π?
00:28:20 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: epsilon π
00:28:27 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_numbers_(mathematics)
00:28:29 <int-e> a large cardinal joke?
00:28:29 <rdococ> well duh but what is it equal to
00:28:37 <rdococ> oh.
00:28:38 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It's very infinite
00:28:51 <int-e> (well, large countable ordinal really)
00:29:19 * int-e should know this.
00:29:41 <rdococ> hm
00:29:44 <rdococ> sounds very ordinal
00:30:10 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_numbers_(mathematics)
00:30:18 <int-e> that was my association at least.
00:30:29 <rdococ> ok
00:30:32 <rdococ> very ordinal
00:30:52 <rdococ> hppavilion[ε_π-1] hi
00:30:56 <int-e> So it's not all that large really
00:31:37 <rdococ> not as large as aleph-one
00:31:50 <rdococ> of course you can't compare an ordinal to a cardinal
00:31:53 <rdococ> or can you?
00:31:53 <rdococ> idk
00:31:58 <rdococ> I'm the dumb one
00:32:11 <int-e> rdococ: you can define cardinals as the smallest ordinal number of a given cardinality
00:32:18 <int-e> and then you can compare cardinals
00:32:23 <rdococ> ikik
00:32:24 <oerjan> assuming axiom of choice bla bla
00:32:25 <int-e> that's assuming the axiom of choice
00:32:51 * int-e throws oerjan into a time delay loop
00:33:00 <oerjan> i still don't think π is a legal index for epsilons.
00:33:14 <rdococ> yeah it is.
00:33:33 <int-e> oerjan: I know, I know.
00:33:35 <oerjan> i thought the indices were themselves ordinals.
00:33:51 <int-e> Of course given that pi is 3 or 4...
00:34:03 <rdococ> ε_π = sup{ε_π-1, w^(ε_π-1), w^(w^(ε_π-1))...}
00:34:12 <int-e> (depending on which law you take as its definition)
00:34:34 <rdococ> ε_π-1 = sup{ε_π-2, w^(ε_π-2), w^(w^(ε_π-2))...}
00:34:53 <rdococ> wait
00:34:54 <rdococ> no
00:34:55 <rdococ> idk
00:35:11 <rdococ> wait I'm mixing things up
00:35:17 * rdococ the dumb one agian
00:35:47 <int-e> the trick is to blend them together in a coherent way, and then you may have a worthy wisdom entry.
00:35:53 <oerjan> . o O ( perhaps you could do something by treating π as surreal )
00:36:16 <oerjan> `? rules of wisdom
00:36:18 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the separate key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
00:36:19 <int-e> most surreal numbers aren't ordinals either
00:36:36 <int-e> ... ouch.
00:36:51 <oerjan> int-e: what?
00:37:03 <int-e> oerjan: "proper capitalization and punctuation"
00:37:18 <int-e> `stat bin/slwd
00:37:19 <HackEgo> ​ File: `bin/slwd' \ Size: 53 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 671133 Links: 1 \ Access: (0755/-rwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-12-31 19:15:31.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2016-11-01 05:40:51.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2016-11-01 05:40:51.000000000 +0000
00:37:22 <oerjan> int-e: i'm just thinking maybe you can interpolate somehow
00:37:57 <int-e> oh, hmm. I don't know. I don't want to think about it. I like my remaining bits of sanity.
00:38:29 <int-e> . o O ( `slwd rules of wisdom//s/itali/ITALI/ <-- not worthwhile )
00:38:32 <oerjan> int-e: everything in that wisdom is essential for its humor hth
00:39:31 <int-e> oerjan: Anyway I was wincing because the entry violates most of its own rules. I can see how this might be construed as being funny but it's nevertheless painful.
00:39:33 <oerjan> int-e: oh. i tried something like that and shachaf thought it was overdoing it.
00:39:59 <oerjan> int-e: i don't think it's missing any...
00:40:07 <int-e> I hope there's no color in that entry
00:40:59 <oerjan> there isn't.
00:41:03 <int-e> oerjan: I think it is understandable without a separate key
00:41:10 <int-e> oerjan: oh wait
00:41:23 <int-e> oerjan: depends on what one means by "separate"
00:42:06 <oerjan> hmph
00:42:13 <int-e> `grwp overthinking
00:42:15 <HackEgo> gamemanj:gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong. \ Binary file reflection matches
00:42:35 <oerjan> `slwd rules of wisdom//s/separate/lookup/
00:42:38 <HackEgo> rules of wisdom//unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
00:42:57 <int-e> yeah, that's better
00:43:56 <int-e> . o O ( proper grammer )
00:44:00 <oerjan> `grwp overthink
00:44:03 <HackEgo> gamemanj:gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong. \ Binary file reflection matches
00:44:13 <int-e> `quote overthink
00:44:15 <HackEgo> 1286) <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
00:44:27 <int-e> damn.
00:44:46 <oerjan> there it was
00:47:25 <oerjan> i think i can fit grammar in there
00:47:36 <oerjan> but it may be too painful
00:50:40 <int-e> `? pain
00:50:41 <HackEgo> pain? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:51:37 -!- whatupbishes has joined.
00:51:38 <oerjan> . o O ( `learn Pain is what your feeling now. )
00:51:54 <int-e> ...
00:51:56 <int-e> devious
00:52:06 <whatupbishes> heyo
00:52:19 <int-e> `wElCoMe whatupbishes
00:52:23 <HackEgo> wHaTuPbIsHeS: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: <HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/>. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN EfNeT Or dAlNeT.)
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01:01:57 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
01:01:58 <hppavilion[1]> THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
01:03:26 <izabera> no hppavilion[2]
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01:10:03 <oerjan> <rdococ> just let your abbreviation be hppa <-- . o O ( if you're hppa and you know it, clap your hands! )
01:10:29 <oerjan> stupid control characters not showing in the logs
01:21:05 <boily> . o O ( coconut )
01:26:12 <int-e> > group $ map sort ["old account", "coconut lad"]
01:26:15 <lambdabot> [[" accdlnootu"," accdlnootu"]]
01:28:02 <boily> is there a pointless way to zip a list with itself, but one element dropped? e.g. "zip f [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] [2, 3, 4, 5]"
01:28:26 <oerjan> @quote ap.tail
01:28:26 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail the aztec god of consecutive numbers
01:29:19 <boily> thoerjan.
01:29:37 <boily> :t ap
01:29:39 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
01:29:45 <oerjan> although these days <*> is more popular than ap, i think.
01:30:04 <boily> <*> is intuitiver than ap.
01:31:20 <boily> :t zip <*> tail
01:31:22 <lambdabot> [a] -> [(a, a)]
01:31:50 <boily> > zip <*> tail $ [1..5]
01:31:53 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5)]
01:53:25 <FireFly> zip`ap`tail reads better though
02:06:44 <boily> ⍣ is better.
02:20:35 <oerjan> `unidecode ⍣
02:24:10 -!- fartytart has changed nick to ickystick.
02:29:41 <boily> `wisdom
02:29:55 <HackEgo> cccp//CCCP is a misspelling of СССР.
02:31:24 <boily> `wisdom
02:31:26 <HackEgo> hyperbolic group//Hyperbolic groups are the best groups there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer.
02:58:35 <int-e> funny, this font distinguishes between P and Р.
02:59:01 <int-e> (but C and С look the same)
03:00:47 <zzo38> Same here; I am using the standard "fixed" font, which does the same thing
03:00:53 <int-e> oerjan: funny thing is, if I'm looking for the S combinator, I'll end up with ap.
03:01:08 <int-e> zzo38: maybe because it's the same font.
03:02:49 <zzo38> Yes, maybe it is same font. (But it is also possible that some other font might do that too, and some might not)
03:06:42 <ickystick> `wisdom
03:06:44 <HackEgo> violation//Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family.
03:07:02 <int-e> hmm, slightly tricky to find the resource. *VT100.utf8Fonts.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1
03:07:52 <int-e> (appres, why have I never used appres before)
03:11:16 <int-e> And I also learned about steamcmd which can download windows steam apps under linux without involving wine.
03:12:15 <int-e> (steam in wine in vnc stopped working for me a while ago... only works with a normal X server, and I have no clue why)
03:12:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:13:28 <int-e> (Where "stopped working" means it never gets past the "Connecting to steam account $account" popup.)
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03:24:34 <\oren\> isn't the storting the name of the norwegian parliament?
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04:43:52 <ais523> anyone know what's up with CALESYTA?
04:54:05 <zzo38> I don't know what is
04:54:12 <zzo38> I hoped you know!
04:55:11 <ais523> well, I know what CALESYTA was (it was an esolang design contest)
04:55:28 <ais523> but the results weren't released on the stated date and the website seems to have broken
04:55:40 <ais523> and I don't know why
04:57:40 <zzo38> I know what it is too, but I know what the results is either
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08:44:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:2017]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50615 * Zzo38 * (+11) Category for the new year
08:44:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Template:Yearcats]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50616&oldid=46083 * Zzo38 * (+26) 2017
08:53:32 <rdococ> someone should have made 2016
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09:16:58 <b_jonas> ais523: whoa, and now their homepage ("http://calesyta.xyz") has disappeared. It was still there yesterday.
09:17:48 <b_jonas> I thought they'd be just a year late with the results to follow IOCCC tradition or something. I didn't think they'd actually disappear.
09:18:05 <b_jonas> Hopefully the homepage will come back and it's just a temporary hitch.
09:18:09 <b_jonas> Has anyone written them email?
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11:34:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Meficat * New user account
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13:05:56 <rdococ> h3llo
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15:37:52 <boily> @metar CYUL
15:37:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 021500Z 12003KT 15SM FEW120 SCT180 BKN220 M02/M05 A3051 RMK AC1AC3CI1 SLP335
15:38:03 <int-e> oerjan: seems your guess was right (GG)
15:38:25 <oerjan> bohily, hint-e. yep.
15:38:33 <int-e> (or a twin? hmmmmmm)
15:39:14 <int-e> No story of intrigue is complete without a twin nobody knew about.
15:39:16 <oerjan> well it was zola who got infused with the other's memories...
15:39:45 <boily> int-ello, hellørjan. what's the conjecture now?
15:40:31 <int-e> just the identity of the "Queen of the Dawn"
15:40:31 <oerjan> and those lanterns look disturbingly the same spherical shape as the tiny wasp engines...
15:40:54 <int-e> Yes, time to bring out the fly swatters.
15:41:54 <int-e> . o O ( ------### is a special swatter made for reaching high places )
15:42:12 <oerjan> otoh can zola really have the spark-infesting kind? this _is_ an aristocratic party after all.
15:42:48 <int-e> One may be enough?
15:43:03 <b_jonas> what's this? is the new season of the Game of Thrones tv show on already?
15:43:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50617&oldid=50608 * Meficat * (+149)
15:43:22 <oerjan> b_jonas: girl genius
15:43:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cheers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50618 * Meficat * (+7436) Created page with "'''Cheers''' is an esoteric programming language aimed at beverage-oriented programming. Partially inspired by [[INTERCAL]] and [[Chef]]. ==Statements== A Cheers program con..."
15:43:39 <b_jonas> ah!
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15:45:41 <int-e> Ah, xkcd delivered.
15:46:52 <oerjan> the thing that makes me wonder if she _does_ have one infecting sparks is how she has apparently got the support of many nations and yet it's not common knowledge that she's got them ... which implies she _must_ have the support of all the spark rulers...
15:47:19 <oerjan> *that she's got wasps
15:48:04 <int-e> I'd get some popcorn
15:48:24 <int-e> but this is going to take at least a week to fully unfold.
15:49:01 <oerjan> yeah
15:49:27 <oerjan> i wonder if agatha will appear in time for her wasp eater to make a noise about it
15:49:42 <Taneb> Or just too late and gets blamed for everything?
15:49:47 <oerjan> or that.
15:51:32 <int-e> oerjan: Btw, is it clear whether she's reversed Martellus' job on her body chemistry?
15:51:51 <oerjan> she has not afaik
15:51:52 <int-e> (IOW, does she still need that wasp eater just to survive?)
15:52:38 <int-e> I know it's been around. But it's been a while... though I guess she was always quite busy with other things.
15:53:30 <oerjan> before she dictated the book, she did tell she needed it, although not why.
15:53:46 <oerjan> and that was only a couple days ago in story time.
15:54:54 <int-e> Ah, true.
15:55:20 <oerjan> more than a year in realtime :P
15:55:53 <oerjan> ok maybe not in those words http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151014
16:08:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bax3n * New user account
16:19:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50619&oldid=50617 * Bax3n * (+48)
16:20:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50620&oldid=50619 * Bax3n * (+4)
16:20:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50621 * Bax3n * (+209) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Д |author=User:Bax3n |year=2016 |link=http://xn--d1a.tk/ |files=<code>.de</code> <code>.d</code> }} Д (also written as д) is an esolang created in..."
16:21:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50622&oldid=50621 * Bax3n * (+4)
16:23:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50623&oldid=50622 * Bax3n * (+119)
16:25:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50624&oldid=50623 * Bax3n * (+82)
16:26:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50625&oldid=50578 * Bax3n * (+9)
16:28:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Bax3n]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50626 * Bax3n * (+51) Created page with "My name is Eric * Site : [http://bax3n.tk bax3n.tk]"
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16:40:25 <myname> what,kind of language is that supposed to be
16:41:17 <boily> that's not even not being a language...
16:41:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50627&oldid=50624 * Bax3n * (+190)
16:41:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50628&oldid=50627 * Bax3n * (+1)
16:42:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50629&oldid=50628 * Bax3n * (+40)
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16:42:39 <LKoen> wow, new command
16:42:42 <LKoen> exciting
16:45:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Bax3n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50630&oldid=50626 * Bax3n * (+24)
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16:48:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50631&oldid=50629 * Bax3n * (-5)
16:48:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50632&oldid=50631 * Bax3n * (+0)
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17:09:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Д]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50633&oldid=50632 * Bax3n * (+6)
17:27:37 <rdococ> oДo
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17:52:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Blablafuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50634 * Ivancr72 * (+1251) Make page.
17:53:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ivancr72]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50635&oldid=50605 * Ivancr72 * (-24)
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17:54:40 <LKoen> "Blablafuck is an esoteric language based on Extended Brainfuck"
17:54:46 <LKoen> noooooooooooooooooooo
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17:55:55 <rdococ> NOT ANOTHER DERIVATIVE
17:55:59 <rdococ> gaaaah
17:56:20 <rdococ> maybe I should try and make a derivative to start instead of trying to come up with a good idea
17:57:52 <int-e> rdococ: You could write a paper, "the next 256!/248! * (1-\epsilon) brainfuck derivatives."
17:59:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50636&oldid=50625 * Ivancr72 * (+17) added blablafuck
17:59:32 <int-e> (bonus points for identifying more degrees of freedom)
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18:00:05 <rdococ> hm
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18:00:44 <rdococ> I could try and pull a Scheme-x
18:01:56 <rdococ> Brainfuck-1 would have a function to determine if Brainfuck-0 functions halt.
18:02:18 <rdococ> Brainfuck-x would be able to determine if a Brainfuck-(0 to x) halts or not.
18:04:54 <int-e> {.1.|.2.} <-- execute .2. as long as .1. wouldn't halt on the current tape
18:05:37 <rdococ> :/
18:06:06 <int-e> syntax is easy!
18:06:06 <rdococ> actually doesn't sound bad
18:06:23 <rdococ> hm
18:06:37 <rdococ> what about brainfuck, but working on media other than tape?
18:07:04 <izabera> i have an idea for a hash table and it may be stupid but i don't think i've seen it anywhere
18:07:18 <int-e> hmm, if we think of brainfuck as operating on two stacks... we could make a deque version of brainfuck instead.
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18:07:44 <int-e> anyway, yes, there's potential for brainfuck derivatives, some of which could be quite awkward to work with :)
18:07:53 <rdococ> hm
18:08:00 <rdococ> two stacks?
18:08:28 <int-e> It's a way to implement a tape: one stack holds elements to the left; the other elements to the right of the current cell.
18:08:43 <rdococ> oh. makes sense.
18:09:14 <rdococ> if you remove one stack then it would be FSA, right? like a turing machine that can only move right?
18:09:18 <int-e> (and one of them is initialized with infinitely many zeros, which may cause trouble as a deque)
18:09:26 <int-e> yes.
18:09:37 <rdococ> k
18:12:04 <LKoen> hum, an automaton with one stack is not equivalent to a finite state machine
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18:13:57 <rdococ> if we reduce the possible values of each cell to 0 or 1, we can replace the + and - with one toggle
18:16:51 <rdococ> and yep, I think it'll still be turing complete
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18:19:27 <zgrep> ~[]<>
18:19:31 <zgrep> ,.
18:19:59 <zgrep> Though , and . would have to work differently.
18:22:44 <rdococ> true
18:22:53 <rdococ> hm...
18:23:15 <rdococ> would it be possible to create a super turing complete language using the halting oracle and little else?
18:24:50 <rdococ> hm
18:24:56 <rdococ> brainfuck minus, as it's called, already exists
18:25:15 <rdococ> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_minus_-
18:25:54 <rdococ> even (without cell-wrapping!)
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18:39:27 <rdococ> can someone PLEASE describe a transistor in terms that AREN'T MEANT FOR A FIVE YEAR OLD?!
18:41:28 <b_jonas> rdodoc: I can't. transistors are some low level implementation detail in electronics hardware, and I'm a software guy so I don't care about those implementation details.
18:42:03 <rdococ> well, can it be described as a gate?
18:42:47 <rdococ> nvm.
18:42:51 <rdococ> I'll find out on my own.
18:43:42 <pikhq> A transistor is a device with a "base", "collector", and "emitter" (or "gate", "source" and "drain" for field-effect transistors). The amount of current on the base (or voltage on the gate) controls how much current can flow between the collector and the emitter.
18:44:33 <rdococ> so if there's low current on the base?
18:45:10 <pikhq> Then proportionally low current flows between the collector and the emitter.
18:45:51 <rdococ> how about high current?
18:46:01 <pikhq> Proportionally high current flows.
18:46:29 <pikhq> The exact amounts flowing depend on the transistor and the supply on the collector, but this *overall* behavior is what a transistor does.
18:46:40 <rdococ> so is it basically an AND gate?
18:47:24 <rdococ> or am I misinterpreting high and low current?
18:48:36 <pikhq> What you're missing is that in most systems what happens with gates is there's a constant voltage supply that's always on...
18:48:44 <pikhq> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TransistorANDgate.png So this is the circuit diagram for an AND gate.
18:49:05 <rdococ> I do understand that...
18:49:24 <pikhq> But you are getting a basic grasp for how the thing functions, yes.
18:49:57 <pikhq> If there's input on the base or gate, electricity can flow through the transistor, and if there isn't then it can't.
18:50:22 <pikhq> And that's what people mean when they say it's a "switch".
18:50:52 <rdococ> makes sense... I guess
18:51:08 <rdococ> so I guess that electricity usually comes from the battery?
18:51:31 <pikhq> Battery or power supply, depending on the device.
18:52:06 <rdococ> k
18:52:26 <rdococ> so do you need to use both N and P type transistors to perform any logical function?
18:53:55 <rdococ> I got a NOR gate with transistor and resistor...
18:53:59 <rdococ> it's beginning to make sense?
18:55:10 <rdococ> I can get a NOR gate to work with P type transistors... not N tho
18:55:15 <rdococ> I'm using logisim btw
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19:01:50 <Perenelle> Give me a hard math problem
19:01:52 <Perenelle> Pronto
19:02:18 <Perenelle> I'm gonna give it to my friend and I find you guys have crazy problems in ur heads
19:03:33 <rdococ> 1/x = 0
19:04:10 <Perenelle> Thanks
19:06:51 <Perenelle> That's sarcasm
19:08:22 <pikhq> Does P=NP?
19:12:22 <Phantom_Hoover> how many roads must a man walk down to split the underlying manifold into simply-connected components
19:16:36 <newsham> pikhq: P=0 /\ N=1
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19:33:27 <myname> \/
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19:46:33 <rdococ> \//\
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20:05:23 <\oren\> urgh, only 1500 Dv left to ge back to Kerbin from Ike orbit
20:05:23 -!- lynn has joined.
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20:15:40 <\oren\> ooh, a solution in only 900 Dv!
20:16:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
20:19:11 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/2ogzNe.jpg Bye, Duna!
20:20:50 <\oren\> I'll be back, with something that can actually land on you
20:37:36 <boily> `? KSP
20:37:46 <\oren\> argh. come on, Mun, show me a nice assist trajectory!
20:37:51 <HackEgo> KSP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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21:10:08 <boily> I should start playing KSP, if only to try lithobraking by myself.
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23:02:34 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA1bNeuny4A
23:11:23 <boily> touhou! in French!
23:14:21 -!- augur has joined.
23:17:40 <\oren\> `unicode AB30
23:17:42 <HackEgo> ​ꬰ
23:17:49 <\oren\> ARGH
23:18:01 <\oren\> how can there be so many characters in unicode
23:24:21 <Jafet> there are many characters in the unicode consortium
23:31:45 <Jafet> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> how many roads must a man walk down to split the underlying manifold into simply-connected components
23:31:50 <HackEgo> 1305) <Phantom_Hoover> how many roads must a man walk down to split the underlying manifold into simply-connected components
23:32:17 <Jafet> only a genus could answer that question
23:38:56 <boily> `? ꙮ
23:38:59 <HackEgo> ​ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
23:39:20 <boily> Jafet: the answer is five, but I'm not a genius, only a sane man.
23:48:55 <Sgeo> There should be a list for H*R
23:50:52 <boily> Sgello. what's a H*R?
23:51:24 <Taneb> boily, the product of H and R
23:51:58 <shachaf> hi Taneb
23:52:03 <Taneb> Hi
23:52:04 <shachaf> Got any good maths for me today?
23:52:36 <Taneb> The Zariski topology is pretty rad
23:54:22 <Sgeo> boily, Homestar Runner
23:54:33 <boily> Tanelle. can I bribe you for some not-quite-legal maths?
23:54:41 <Taneb> How do you mean, boily ?
23:54:43 <boily> `thanks Sgeo
23:54:46 <HackEgo> Thanks, Sgeo. Theo.
23:54:55 <boily> I wouldn't know, but I like bribing people ^^
23:55:27 <Taneb> :D
23:57:09 <int-e> boily: so basically you're handing out free money?
23:57:34 <izabera> i'm willing to be bribed
23:57:54 <shachaf> i can be bribed with limericks twh
23:59:54 <boily> int-e: money is boring bribe material. I prefer treats and snacks.
00:00:11 <boily> shachaf: I think I can manage...
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00:55:10 <oerjan> @tell rdococ <rdococ> if you remove one stack then it would be FSA, right? like a turing machine that can only move right? <-- no, DPDA hth
00:55:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:02:21 <int-e> err, oops.
01:03:26 <int-e> how do I build a cover story for that... my stupid twin is visiting and hijacked my keyboard?
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01:15:21 <oerjan> `learn twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. he sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense.
01:15:24 <oerjan> DONE
01:15:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'twint-e': twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. he sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense.
01:15:33 <oerjan> oops
01:15:50 <oerjan> `slwd twint-e//s/he/He/
01:15:54 <HackEgo> twint-e//twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense.
01:16:09 <int-e> `thanks oerjan
01:16:10 <HackEgo> Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan.
01:19:26 <fizzie> Huh, fungot's been up and running since sometime last November without having to had to rejigger it.
01:19:26 <fungot> fizzie: well he should keep quiet! things are very closely linked to the implementation of this action on the part of the investment allocated to transport, to replace other forms of trafficking, which destroys so many lives.
01:19:43 <oerjan> fiendish
01:20:17 <fizzie> Sounds like someone's been unruly at the europarl.
01:20:51 <int-e> ^style
01:20:52 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:21:01 <int-e> ^style agora
01:21:01 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
01:21:17 <int-e> fungot: does this work?
01:21:17 <fungot> int-e: resolved, no person may use them to be
01:21:25 <fizzie> Not too well.
01:21:26 <int-e> fungot: not very well, eh?
01:21:27 <fungot> int-e: the notary and the most recent date on which each player's orientation.) in the following are generally true of all
01:21:32 <int-e> ^style europarl
01:21:32 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
01:21:54 <fizzie> "(Heckling) Calm down, young man, you will have every right to shout afterwards. Or go and have some breakfast, and come back when you have calmed down..."
01:22:18 <fizzie> Seems like a spirited session.
01:22:26 <boily> fungot: nostril.
01:22:28 <fungot> boily: mr president, i am assuming that individual commissioners might perhaps also wish to refer to two of my constituents in the shetland isles in scotland, to reconsider a reduction in payments does not make sense for us always to advocate greater democracy for workers in the private sector. this is also why, since i sent a note to answer this crucial question: do you not think that this is only a first step towards establis
01:22:38 <fizzie> "Mr Cohn-Bendit, you should not be contemptuous of a colleague!" "Well he should keep quiet! Things are very simple. --"
01:22:41 <fizzie> Democracy in action.
01:24:31 <fizzie> "Madam President, I do not understand why you are getting so irritated before I have even opened my mouth!"
01:25:29 <int-e> . o O ( Sounds like a common complaint of some IRC trolls. )
01:27:43 <boily> fungot: are you for the current establishment?
01:27:44 <fungot> boily: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the concern voiced here is completely groundless.
01:27:59 <boily> fungot: yes, I am grounded.
01:27:59 <fungot> boily: mr president, i voted for the report i hope the commissioner can produce that for us.
01:28:18 <fizzie> fungot: I think we all hope that.
01:28:19 <fungot> fizzie: i should like to inform you that the views on the backwardness of american culture as compared with the earlier voting time, it is well-known that my irish colleague, commissioner monti wrote to the president of the millennium declaration and the ensuing resolution, that we can see to it that they are not all that satisfied about what has been said in the report, it will be possible, by the clear commitment to responsib
01:28:29 <int-e> fungot: very politician, voting on something you haven't seen :)
01:28:30 <fungot> int-e: mr president, i merely wanted to draw your attention to the specialist training and of help towards micro-projects aimed at improving the contribution which would be incompatible with the wto ministerial meeting in new york, even in some of the suggestions contained in the report.
01:28:50 <int-e> . o O ( "politician" is an adjective, right? Right?! )
01:29:40 <fizzie> "politician -- (a schemer who tries to gain advantage in an organization in sly or underhanded ways)" (WordNet)
01:29:51 <fizzie> Okay, there were some other meanings as well.
01:31:37 <int-e> A. Bierce suggests, POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When we wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.
01:31:58 <int-e> I guess that "we" is a "he".
01:39:27 <int-e> Sad, the text is correct on project gutenberg but I found that typo on two websites :-(
01:43:44 <hppavilion[1]> fungœt
01:45:57 <int-e> Hmm, bitcoin looks foamy.
01:48:22 <\oren\> omg omg I love this game
01:49:22 <int-e> the star star one?
01:52:15 <\oren\> yeah
01:52:23 <\oren\> it's hilarious
01:54:20 <int-e> thanks for the warning
01:56:57 <shachaf> int-e: http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com hth
01:57:21 <shachaf> (There's more to that game than it seems.)
01:58:30 <shachaf> including e.g. http://slbkbs.org/moon.png
01:58:38 <int-e> YUI({}).use('gallery-base64', function(Y) { var enc=Y.Base64.decode('...');eval(enc);});
01:59:16 <shachaf> you're holding back progress, yo
01:59:54 <boily> int-ello. that doesn't look very safe...
01:59:59 <int-e> why do you have to base64-encode the whole thing, it doesn't make sense.
02:00:19 <shachaf> I don't know, it's not my thing.
02:01:03 <int-e> boily: that's, I guess, the code implementing the game shachaf linked to.
02:01:59 <shachaf> it's a good game
02:02:01 <shachaf> very realistic
02:04:00 <int-e> this part also seems important: o.parentNode.insertBefore(s,o)}(window,document,"script","//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js","ga"),ga("create","UA-49624540-1","beepboopbitcoin.com"),ga("send","pageview")
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02:04:45 <shachaf> you gotta have analytics
02:05:15 <int-e> I'll admit that there are some nice text snippets in there.
02:05:26 <int-e> "everyone is talking about a scam some people fell for.","they're complaining that wikipedia doesn't accept donations in bitcoin.",...
02:06:05 <oerjan> <int-e> Hmm, bitcoin looks foamy. <-- wow, it's passed 1 USD / mBTC
02:06:23 <int-e> yes, for the second time in its history.
02:06:40 <shachaf> can i have that in picodollars twh
02:09:59 <int-e> but okay, the base64 mainly seems to be used to obfuscate the text snippets, nothing sinister.
02:10:09 <\oren\> huh, the currency in this game is weird. they use the symbol $ for it, but a beer costs $200
02:10:31 <shachaf> What's weird?
02:10:35 <int-e> maybe it's set 30 years in the future.
02:10:46 <\oren\> int-e: it's set in 2070
02:10:55 <int-e> seems realistic then
02:11:00 <\oren\> why?
02:11:13 <int-e> inflation.
02:11:21 <\oren\> oooh
02:11:27 <\oren\> ouch.
02:12:33 <shachaf> That's quite a bit of inflation.
02:12:58 <oerjan> what's a beer today
02:13:14 <int-e> (It's fun to read novels from the 30s and compare prizes... e.g., expensive private detectives asking for $20 a week!)
02:13:16 <shachaf> Certainly not unprecedented, but a lot for the US.
02:13:23 <int-e> (plus expenses!)
02:13:26 <oerjan> what's a beer today
02:13:33 <Jafet> oerjan: about 0.01 btc
02:13:43 <shachaf> I don't know, but I assume <$20
02:13:51 <oerjan> 10 USD, check
02:13:52 <\oren\> uh, 5 to 7 CAD
02:14:01 <int-e> "the big news is that one of the big name bitcoin businesses just shut down without warning. All customer assets have vanished. The owners are blaming hackers."
02:14:07 <\oren\> a good beer is 7 CAD
02:14:13 <int-e> I have no clue what that could be alluding to!!!!1
02:14:20 <shachaf> Are you playing the game or just reading the code?
02:14:42 <shachaf> It's a good game, you should eval all that code.
02:14:52 <oerjan> listen, i want the price in USD for obvious reason.
02:15:06 <int-e> "You read about a company called Flutterby Labs" -- not very well obfuscated, that one.
02:15:14 <oerjan> but i'll go with $10
02:15:47 <oerjan> > 20 ** (1/(70-16))
02:15:49 <lambdabot> 1.0570442011720849
02:15:55 <oerjan> ok that high
02:16:03 <int-e> Haha. "Flutterby Labs Inc. is a small, fairly new organization in the prepackaged software companies industry located in Mountain View, CA"
02:16:04 <shachaf> int-e: If you play the game, you get to play multiple parallel games, one of them as Flutterby Labs
02:16:18 <shachaf> If I remember correctly?
02:16:25 <oerjan> i think the inflation goal is 2 or 2.5? and the feds have had trouble getting it that high...
02:16:46 <oerjan> (%)
02:16:51 <shachaf> itym the fed hth
02:17:28 <boily> \oren\: your beers are cheaper than here...
02:17:29 <int-e> Neat. "Except Butterfly Labs added a twist. They didn't sell pickaxes. They sold preorders for pickaxes."
02:20:01 <int-e> But the game doesn't mention the GH/J metric, sad.
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02:29:35 <int-e> `? rocket surgery
02:29:38 <HackEgo> rocket surgery? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:35:22 <\oren\> In KSP i had to do rocket surgery the other day
02:35:58 <\oren\> I put the wrong part on my space cruiser and had to replace it on orbit
02:36:09 <boily> strut.
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02:38:19 <\oren\> I tossed the other reactor into the atmosphere. it's probably fine.
02:40:44 <\oren\> pffhahahahahahahahahahahahah "mon aeroglisseur est plain de anguilles"
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02:48:39 -!- ickystick has changed nick to weepypeep.
02:49:45 * oerjan fastens weepypeep's nick with a staple gun
02:51:12 <weepypeep> identity crisis
02:51:23 <shachaf> oerjan: good, it was pretty unstaple
02:51:46 * oerjan fastens shachaf's nick with a swatter -----###
02:52:33 * FireFly buzzes about
02:52:38 <shachaf> HireFly
02:52:50 <FireFly> hachaf
02:52:55 <shachaf> what's your rate twh
02:53:11 <FireFly> rate?
02:53:20 <shachaf> if i want to hirefly
02:53:29 <shachaf> can i pay you in insects
02:53:36 <shachaf> apparently that's what fireflies eat
02:53:37 * oerjan catches FireFly with a double Lewberger with left spiral out -----###
02:53:38 <FireFly> I'd say I hum at about 200Hz
02:53:42 <FireFly> Oh
02:54:18 <FireFly> shachaf: pfft, if anything you should pay me in *real* fake money, like bitcoins
02:54:40 <FireFly> `coins
02:54:52 <HackEgo> haikcoin wtrycoin 6iycoin kachidcoin fclafacoin optimecoin lrhotoogtcoin prelcoin mouserticoin bytecoin maftgreencoin prolacoin spiracoin aarcoin surfcoin raincoin tendocoin ikvcoin choonlecoin cobocoin
02:55:39 <oerjan> aaaaaaaaaaaarcoin
03:05:16 <Jafet> presumably the bytecoin is pegged to the bitcoin
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03:05:56 <myname> i demand nooodlcoin
03:13:45 <oerjan> `? nooodlcoin
03:13:47 <HackEgo> nooodlcoin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:13:55 <oerjan> `cat bin/?
03:13:57 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl;
03:14:13 <shachaf> `2 cat bin/\?
03:14:17 <HackEgo> 2/2: "$topic1" | rnooooooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi
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03:16:46 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//s, | rnooodl,,;sfi,fi | rnooodl,
03:16:48 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 32: unterminated `s' command
03:17:21 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//s, [|] rnooodl,,;sfi,fi | rnooodl,
03:17:23 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 34: unterminated `s' command
03:17:28 <oerjan> argh
03:18:19 <shachaf> oerjan: s,fi hth
03:18:27 <oerjan> `sled bin/?//s, [|] rnooodl,,g;s,fi,fi | rnooodl,
03:18:34 <HackEgo> bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo
03:18:56 <oerjan> `? nooodlcoin
03:19:00 <HackEgo> nooooodlcoin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:19:00 <shachaf> in my opinion it wouldn't hurt to just replace the #!/bin/bash with something more nooooooooodly
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03:20:17 <shachaf> `? nooodl
03:20:21 <HackEgo> noooooodl is the correct spelling
03:21:04 <oerjan> i don't understand what you mean.
03:23:33 <oerjan> or, if i do, i don't think it would make a difference.
03:23:40 <shachaf> it wouldn't in this case
03:26:06 <\oren\> It occurs to me that mmost of these jokes are references to internet culture that are a product of this decade, and therefore this game will be less funny when played in the year it is set in
03:26:33 <oerjan> shocking
03:27:20 <oerjan> maybe it'll just be funny for a different reason. zeerust anyone?
03:29:24 <\oren\> "she's using a tochscreen phone, like wut? people stopped using those in the 30's!"
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03:34:07 <shachaf> poochscreen phone
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03:46:31 <\oren\> I actually wonder what sort of user interface will catch on in the next few decades
03:50:17 <\oren\> right now it's touchscreens on everything.
03:50:48 <\oren\> but I've seen people play games using eye tracking software
03:52:03 <\oren\> it seems the trend is toward as little physical effort as possible
04:00:47 <\oren\> $ export CURRENT_YEAR=2017
04:01:01 <\oren\> forgot to set the CURRENT_YEA
04:12:04 <zzo38> I don't like touch screen; keyboard is a better interface
04:14:18 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Agreed
04:14:32 <hppavilion[1]> I'd prefer not to use mouse, but everything is designed for it and such is the way of the world
04:16:04 <\oren\> I would prefer eye tracking if I could afford the damn thing
04:16:23 <\oren\> eye tracking for the mouse, not the keyboard
04:16:42 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Hawking has eye tracking for his keyboard
04:17:08 <hppavilion[1]> I'd also like a chorded keyboard if I could get such a thing
04:17:23 <\oren\> well, technically I can afford it, but it just seems like a waste for what is effectively a prototype
04:17:42 <hppavilion[1]> I *might* be able to set one up with AHK by making it so that any combination of keys followed by a key release types that combination
04:17:45 <hppavilion[1]> OOOh
04:17:58 <hppavilion[1]> And presumably if you don't release all the keys you were holding, the ones you're still holding stick around :D
04:20:59 <hppavilion[1]> So exempli gratia the chords for 'T' and 'H' would vary by a single note, since 'TH' is the most common digraph
04:21:19 <hppavilion[1]> But then again, T is a common letter, so it might be only a single symbol in the first place
04:21:23 <hppavilion[1]> Hymn...
04:23:46 <hppavilion[1]> Let's say that in Monty Pythonian, 'ca' is a common trigraph, but 'c' and 'a' are relatively uncommon outside of that trigraph
04:25:07 <hppavilion[1]> You might bind 'c' to the sequence (on a traditional keyboard with chording added on) asf+j and 'a' to the sequence asf+k
04:25:40 <hppavilion[1]> (the notation here being <contributing notes>+<trigger note>- you depress the contributing notes then press and release the triggering note to type a symbol)
04:27:15 <hppavilion[1]> So you'd do (using an unrelated notation where every time a symbol appears alone it's pressed and appearing immediately before ^ it is released) asfjj^kk^
04:27:29 <hppavilion[1]> And you'd wind up with 'ca' typed.
04:29:43 <oerjan> that's a pretty short trigraph.
04:30:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "a" counts as 4 letters in Monty Pythonian hth
04:31:23 <oerjan> and "c" as -1?
04:31:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Obviously.
04:32:08 <oerjan> figures.
04:32:44 <hppavilion[1]> "What's the word count of your essay" "2_576+694i"
04:33:06 <oerjan> off by i error
04:33:33 <zzo38> Not everything is designed for mouse and touch screen there is other way too. Many program can use keyboard, and some are design they can work with mouse and with keyboard.
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04:56:13 <syn811> hello
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05:13:29 <\oren\> gone already?
05:42:21 <hppavilion[1]> `? oerjan
05:42:25 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
05:42:32 <hppavilion[1]> `? words
05:42:37 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
05:42:47 <hppavilion[1]> `? Hard words
05:42:51 <HackEgo> Hard words? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
06:16:57 <\oren\> argh I hate twitter so much
06:17:17 <\oren\> why do people put clapping emojis between every word
06:27:01 <pikhq> Costs as much as space.
06:55:30 <zzo38> I made up a program to convert all of the X cursor shapes for use with SDL. The resulting data should then be usable with SDL on any computer.
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09:01:39 <shikhin> `? violation
09:01:46 <HackEgo> Violation is the act of playing an instrument in the viola family.
09:02:02 <shikhin> :D
09:03:11 <shachaf> `cwlprits violation
09:03:26 <HackEgo> tsweẗt tsweẗt
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11:35:47 <boily> `wisdom
11:35:59 <HackEgo> poland//Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes.
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13:02:39 <rdococ> ha ha
13:04:52 <FireFly> `wisdom
13:04:58 <rdococ> `? rdococ
13:05:07 <HackEgo> select//select is a very versatile construct: it waits for events, retrieves data from tables, creates a list from elements of an input list that satisfy a condition, a dropdown list element, an event for when selection changes, branches between multiple arms, conditional between two expressions, prints a text-based menu prompt in a loop, and more.
13:05:10 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
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13:48:18 <b_jonas> oh! let's make an operating system where any byte, including the nul byte, can be part of a pathname, so system calls take filenames terminated by a '\1' followed by 255 '\0' bytes. that can't conflict with anything, since pathname components can't be longer than 255 bytes.
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16:41:18 <\oren\> `? fraktur
16:41:26 <rdococ> ono ouo
16:41:33 <\oren\> 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯
16:41:39 <rdococ> OuO oUo
16:41:47 <oerjan> the connection has fraktured
16:41:49 <rdococ> 0u0
16:41:52 <rdococ> oh no
16:41:55 <rdococ> we must fiks it
16:41:59 <\oren\> ^w^
16:42:23 <oerjan> fizzie: !!!!!!!
16:42:32 <rdococ> ono <(we must fix the connexone)
16:43:01 <rdococ> ono
16:43:38 <oerjan> apparently so has fizzie
16:43:39 <rdococ> ono
16:43:43 <oerjan> Gregor!!!!
16:43:53 <oerjan> (wild attempt)
16:44:06 <rdococ> ._.
16:44:57 <oerjan> . o O ( it was the Day of the Apocalypse. HackEgo had fraktured, and the channel was filled with eerie colors... )
16:45:16 <\oren\> 𝔬𝔲𝔬
16:45:21 <rdococ> if you wanted eerie colors rather than cute colors you could have just said.
16:45:46 <oerjan> . o O ( and then it turned red like blood )
16:47:09 <rdococ> indeed
16:47:26 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha
16:47:50 <oerjan> . o O ( fortunately for once, putty's ignorance of colors when cutting and pasting helped )
16:48:24 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha
16:48:47 <oerjan> . o O ( as did irssi's ignorance of tabs )
16:49:13 <oerjan> . o O ( * wilful ignorance )
16:49:51 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha
16:50:14 <rdococ> . o O ( you cooould just highlight it )
16:50:28 <rdococ> . o O ( oh and HexChat lets you choose whether to copy colors )
16:50:44 <\oren\> ok srsly how do you do reversed text
16:50:54 <rdococ> o-o . o O ( srsly )
16:51:06 <oerjan> . o O ( apparently putty's highlighting doesn't overcome red on red, so no. )
16:51:09 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha
16:51:41 <rdococ> what about green-on-green?
16:51:42 <\oren\> muhuhahahaha
16:51:47 <\oren\> there!
16:51:57 <rdococ> my lovely hexchat always makes highlighted text white on blue
16:52:08 <rdococ> so it's easy to read no matter what the original colours were
16:52:14 <rdococ> thus, hexchat is the clear victor
16:52:16 <oerjan> rdococ: not that either.
16:52:22 <rdococ> ?
16:52:27 <\oren\> stupid tmux, stop responding to my clicking!
16:52:55 <\oren\> reversed text
16:53:35 <Gregor> It amuses me that you had a panic attack that HackEgo was down but couldn't care less that esolangs.org is down.
16:54:20 <oerjan> THEY'RE THE SAME THING
16:54:27 <oerjan> </lame excuse>
16:54:44 <Gregor> Not sure what happened but I gave the server a (virtual) kick so hopefully it'll come back up.
16:55:06 <oerjan> yay!
16:55:15 <\oren\> hmm terrible idea, lets make it possible to edit the wiki by sending sed command to Heackego
16:55:58 <\oren\> like `wikised brainfuck s/something that needs to change/the thing it should be/
16:56:14 <oerjan> that is indeed a terrible idea.
16:56:52 <\oren\> then we can have and watch edit wars in real time
16:57:22 <oerjan> we can already watch them. except now fizzie probably needs to restart the wiki bridge after this.
16:57:44 <\oren\> it will be fun when people craft their regexes to preemptively overwrite what other people are trying to wirte
16:57:59 <rdococ> the colors are still here
16:58:23 <oerjan> . o O ( don't tempt me to add +c )
16:58:32 <\oren\> for me, that's light red on dark red
16:58:45 <rdococ> how?
16:58:57 <oerjan> how what
16:59:37 <oerjan> it seems HackEgo is still not joining.
16:59:47 <\oren\> rdococ: i dunno, I'm using irssi -> tmux -> ssh -> tmux -> mac terminal
16:59:58 <oerjan> nor the wiki
17:00:59 <\oren\> iterm2, however, shows it as bright red on bright red
17:01:03 <oerjan> presumably mac terminal doesn't like to show colors as invisible
17:02:08 <\oren\> I think mac terminal jsut doesn't support bright colors as backgraound and foreground
17:02:16 <\oren\> a lot of terminals don't
17:03:19 <\oren\> basically they have to support display modes 90-109 for that
17:03:53 <rdococ> ?
17:04:08 <rdococ> mac terminal?
17:04:48 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code
17:05:39 <\oren\> [103mtest
17:06:07 <\oren\> [93mtest
17:06:25 <rdococ> ?
17:06:27 -!- HackEgo has joined.
17:06:29 <rdococ> weird
17:06:38 <rdococ> [93do you see this in color?
17:07:20 <\oren\> `` echo $'\e[93mtest'
17:07:30 <HackEgo> ​[93mtest
17:07:40 <oerjan> rdococ: no hth
17:07:50 <rdococ> I meant \oren\ -.-
17:09:04 <\oren\> no I don't, so i'm at a loss as to how irssi is doing this
17:11:09 <\oren\> oh, iterm2 supports ^[[38;5;Nm 256 color mode
17:11:27 <rdococ> anyway
17:11:36 <rdococ> what horrible language should I think about and end up not making today?
17:11:56 <\oren\> and evem ^[[38;2;R;G;Bm 24 bit color
17:12:10 <rdococ> oh, cool
17:12:31 <rdococ> YaY
17:13:11 <\oren\> [38;2;240;255;240m
17:13:11 <rdococ> yAy
17:14:22 <\oren\> [38;2;240;255;240mtesting testing 1 2 3
17:14:30 <\oren\> argh
17:15:00 <\oren\> [38;5;49mtesting testing 1 2 3
17:15:17 <\oren\> but irssi doesn't let either of thse through
17:15:25 <pikhq> It's a pity there's no practical way to do polyglot 24-bit color *and* lower bit depths (in such a way things "just work" for everything)...
17:15:43 <oerjan> \oren\: i see some very light colors on white
17:16:19 <\oren\> oerjan: those were supposed to be honeydew (a very light green)
17:16:29 <\oren\> and a very light turkoise
17:16:40 <oerjan> turquoise may be right
17:16:53 <oerjan> the first one looked more grey, though
17:17:40 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;10what color does this look like?
17:17:52 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;10mI mean this
17:18:12 <oerjan> that looks light gold or thereabouts
17:18:24 <rdococ> well, that is 240;255;10
17:18:31 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;0mso this will be yellow?
17:18:38 <rdococ> [38;2;240;255;0mwell, gold but yellow?
17:18:38 <oerjan> putty seems to have checked something called "xterm 256 color mode".
17:18:43 <oerjan> yeah
17:18:56 <oerjan> so i guess it has more color capability than i thought.
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17:19:08 <\oren\> oerjan: so something further p my chain must be stripping it out
17:19:29 <rdococ> [38;2;255;0;0mr[38;2;255;128;0ma[38;2;255;255;0mi[38;2;128;255;0mn[38;2;0;255;0mb
17:20:16 <\oren\> hmm, so my version of irssi must be old
17:21:09 <oerjan> apparently irssi has a setting for 24 bit colors, but it was off.
17:21:34 <b_jonas> "It's a pity there's no practical way to do polyglot 24-bit color *and* lower bit depths (in such a way things "just work" for everything)..." => ais523 did some research about that. but it's indeed very difficult because if you write the 24-bit color codes with colons, then some terminals don't understand them, and if you write them with semicolons, then linux console will interpret the individual components as codes setting mode flags some of which are
17:21:51 <b_jonas> \ but it's indeed very difficult because if you write the 24-bit color codes with colons, then some terminals don't understand them, and if you write them with semicolons, then linux console will interpret the individual components as codes setting mode flags some of which are harmful so you need to specifically turn them off.
17:23:19 <b_jonas> The value 12 is the most harmful in particular, because "\e[12m" turns on some crazy mode on linux console.
17:24:38 <fizzie> Very colorful.
17:24:45 <fizzie> Was my ping just about HackEgo?
17:25:20 <b_jonas> So you need to explicitly undo it with "\e[10m"
17:25:58 <b_jonas> I don't recall what ais523 decided eventually about polyglots with 24-bit color.
17:27:35 <\oren\> irssi doesn't have any updated documentation, so the best way to figure a lot of stuff out is to use the source
17:27:38 <oerjan> fizzie: yep. it might need the wiki bridge restarted now.
17:27:55 <oerjan> but Gregor fixed the rest.
17:28:11 <oerjan> (well, i assume he didn't fix the bridge, since he didn't make it)
17:28:42 <pikhq> b_jonas: Yup, exactly the sort of thing I was referring to.
17:29:02 <pikhq> You can *just* do 256 color, but I don't think ais523 figured out a way to do it, and I certainly don't see one.
17:29:34 <b_jonas> pikhq: 256 color has a different problem that makes it almost impossible to do as a generic polyglot that works everywhere
17:29:47 <fizzie> oerjan: Thanks for reminding, I didn't think of the bridge at all.
17:30:02 <fizzie> (It may or may not be still alive; I'll check.)
17:31:04 <b_jonas> namely that urxvt can be compiled to support either the 256 color mode or the 80 color mode, and those two use EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING ESCAPE SEQUENCES BUT WITH A DIFFERENT PALETTE so the same escape sequence can set one of two unrelated colors.
17:31:12 <pikhq> ...
17:31:35 <b_jonas> You tell the terminal that you want color number 75, and then you get either the 75th color of the series of 80, or the 75th color from the series of 256
17:31:38 <b_jonas> brilliant, eh?
17:32:05 <\oren\> brillant
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17:36:31 <rdococ> amazing
17:36:34 <rdococ> brilliant
17:36:39 <b_jonas> And these are just the saner things he had to deal with about terminals, because there are terminals where the problem isn't with fancy multi-color support, but basic functions broken.
17:36:41 <rdococ> applause
17:37:05 <rdococ> g g
17:37:08 <b_jonas> Like that terminal that can't decode utf-8 characters that happen to be split through a read() boundary;
17:37:30 <rdococ> well done
17:37:56 <pikhq> OSX's.
17:38:28 <b_jonas> that other terminal which is the reason why ais's library initializes terminals by sending a few kilobytes of nulls;
17:38:34 <pikhq> Hah.
17:39:03 <b_jonas> that terminal which produces graphics glitches when the window size is too large;
17:39:40 <b_jonas> that terminal which generates the same escape code for the home and end buttons;
17:39:49 <b_jonas> s/buttons/keys/
17:39:51 <zzo38> I should write a better terminal emulator
17:39:57 <b_jonas> those terminals that crash;
17:40:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50639&oldid=50637 * Redstarcoder * (+480) /* Code execution */ Explained fisherman instruction
17:40:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cool]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50640 * IQBigBang * (+826) Created page with "Cool ('''C'''haracter '''O'''bject '''O'''riented '''L'''anguage) is esoteric programming language made by [[User:IQBigBang]] on 3rd January 2017. Almost everycharacter in thi..."
17:40:21 <b_jonas> and older urxvt which used to get backspacing from past the end of the line wrong.
17:40:28 <fizzie> The bridge had indeed broken down.
17:40:43 <fizzie> I wasn't expecting edits immediately after bringing it back up, though.
17:40:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: nah, there are good ones. the problem is that programs have to support old or broken terminals too.
17:41:02 <b_jonas> Oh, and there's of course terminals that are just plain SLOW.
17:41:14 <zzo38> I currently use xterm
17:41:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: for x11, I really recommend urxvt, provided you get a not very old version and compile it yourself with your preferred config options.
17:41:53 <b_jonas> possibly patch it a bit.
17:42:00 <b_jonas> easier than writing a completely new one.
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17:42:11 <b_jonas> I run a patched xterm with custom configs myself on linux.
17:42:12 <zzo38> I wrote on http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/terminalemulator what feature I want to implement.
17:42:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cool]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50641&oldid=50640 * IQBigBang * (+85)
17:42:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: let me see
17:43:06 <oerjan> fizzie: we seem to be getting a lot of new users these days
17:43:28 <b_jonas> "Nearly full support for DEC and Tektronix terminal emulation, including
17:43:28 <b_jonas> Sixel and ReGIS graphics, full DEC technical set (including pieces of the
17:43:31 <b_jonas> big Sigma), Tektronix APL mode, downloadable fonts, etc" => whoa
17:43:37 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe this Internet thing is finally hitting it big time.
17:43:38 <b_jonas> what do you need that for?
17:44:00 <zzo38> To be completed. Tektronix mode may be omitted, but the other stuff should not be omitted.
17:44:26 <b_jonas> (I even debugged an ugly bug out of urxvt once. Those were the days.)
17:45:14 <b_jonas> "Use different mouse cursor shape when mouse events are enabled (using
17:45:14 <b_jonas> XC_xterm when not mouse mode, and XC_arrow when mouse clicking is enabled;
17:45:17 <b_jonas> may be configurable)" => oh! good idea
17:45:52 <APic> *shrug*
17:46:02 <zzo38> Yes, that is a feature xterm doesn't have and that I think would be good.
17:46:27 <b_jonas> "Pipe data to an external program (you configure what program and what arguments) to implementing printer controller mode; this external program receives all of the same ANSI data that the terminal will receive" => and another external program controlling the ticker tape puncher?
17:47:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: you could patch some of these features to existing good terminal emulators (urxvt and screen are the ones I like)
17:47:21 * APic has a Sticker on his Bike where a Printer prints ANSI.SYS or something
17:47:57 <zzo38> Yes you could add such an external program if you want it to control a ticker tape puncher, although this is intended for sending to a printer, but could also be use for others.
17:48:04 <b_jonas> "Support for any X visual classes (monochrome, grayscale, indexed colours, programmable indexed colours, true colours)" => I think urxvt has that
17:49:27 <b_jonas> (and other features, like controlling with X resources, many xterm extensions)
17:50:15 <\oren\> the main feature I think terminals lack is more sophisticated graphics
17:50:25 <b_jonas> "Keyboard commands for ... United Kingdom mode, local mode, VT52 mode, ..." => what the heck is that?
17:50:53 <fizzie> b_jonas: The first one is a mode where you can't type mean things about the Queen.
17:51:11 <APic>
17:51:17 <fizzie> Okay, maybe that's more of a "Thailand mode".
17:51:35 <b_jonas> "Environment variable with process ID of terminal" => you can implement that with a small wrapper between the terminal and the shell or other program it starts, one that execves the program in its argument but saves its ppid to an env-var
17:51:37 <zzo38> No that is not what it means. United Kingdom mode mean you can type and display the British pounds sign.
17:52:02 <b_jonas> or even with a shell command like export TERMINAL_PID=$PPID
17:52:17 <\oren\> instead of #?
17:52:20 <zzo38> Yes, that can work.
17:52:37 <zzo38> \oren\: Yes. It is a feature that actual DEC terminals have
17:55:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50642&oldid=50639 * Redstarcoder * (+15) /* Dive / rise */ added fisherman to list of movement instructions
17:55:23 <b_jonas> What I'd like is to have three separate displayed colors corresponding to each of the palette of approx 18 colors: one used for background, one for foreground when the background is dark, and one for foreground when the background is light. This would let most color combinations become readable.
17:56:15 <zzo38> b_jonas: Ah, that is a interesting idea I suppose. But may be considered more complicated than it should be. I do not know yet.
17:56:34 <zzo38> (Even if you are not in United Kingdom mode you can still display the British pounds sign when selecting VT100 character graphics set)
17:56:56 <\oren\> b_jonas: I have simply designed a pallette that has good display properties
17:57:38 <\oren\> in particular, the light and dark versions differ in hue as well as lightness to help readability
17:58:05 * hue nods
17:58:11 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, I have such a palette too, and other people have designed more, but some scheme like this (it might not be exactly what I described) could be even better
17:58:54 <zzo38> One of my idea is that for example SIGUSR1 may reset the terminal or partially reset the terminal, so that the shell can automatically do that after a program exits in order to avoid problem with programs that mess up the terminal mode.
17:58:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: is rewrapping lines when you resize the window, like urxvt or the windows 10 terminal does, a goal?
17:59:07 <zzo38> b_jonas: No.
17:59:29 <b_jonas> put that in non-goals then
17:59:32 <zzo38> OK
17:59:51 <b_jonas> but dynamically resizing the terminal is still a goal, right?
18:00:01 <b_jonas> and a user-configurable palette too
18:01:29 <b_jonas> "One of my idea is that for example SIGUSR1 may reset the terminal or partially reset the terminal," => the problem with that is that the signal isn't necessarily ordered with writes to the terminal, so if both happen quickly (and they will often do when a program exits then the shell writes something) then the terminal won't know when to reset.
18:02:00 <b_jonas> it would be better to use something that goes in-band
18:02:03 <zzo38> To resize the terminal by escape codes to at least 80x24 and 132x24 are goals; possibly others too. Although these features may be disabled by user configuration. Also of course the user can always resize the terminal window and to set the palette in the X resources.
18:02:22 <b_jonas> ok
18:03:00 <zzo38> (The user can resize the terminal to any size; it doesn't have to be only 80x24)
18:03:15 <pikhq> It's a pity there's not a modernish spec for terminal escapes.
18:03:22 <b_jonas> "the user can always resize the terminal window" => um, ok, but I mean the user should be able to resize the size of the terminal grid in characters, not only the window
18:03:51 <zzo38> Yes it does change the size of the terminal grid in characters.
18:03:52 <pikhq> i.e. one including what most people and terminals actually use, with little disregard for ancient historical practice or unused, unimplemented features.
18:05:09 <b_jonas> Oh! Above when I takled about broken terminals, I forgot to rant about the windows 10 terminal's vt102-like escape code support!
18:06:11 <b_jonas> The windows 10 terminal recognizes certain escapes, in particular "\e[6,3H" and "\e[H" works, but "\e[6H" is treated as a no-op.
18:07:13 <zzo38> Using in-band would help (and would avoid needing to use a signal), although then there is the problem to be confuse with incompleted codes, although there may be a way to work around that too, perhaps involving the ASCII "cancel" control, as well as maybe others too.
18:09:06 <b_jonas> While it treats most DEC-like sequences it doesn't recognize (and there's many of those) as a no-op; it interprets "\x18" and "\x00" and "\x1a" and "\x0f" as some printable char taking up a grid space rather than a no-op.
18:10:22 <b_jonas> Also, it uses the ugly style wrapping where if you write a character to the last column, the cursor is immediately moved to the next line, rather than kept in that row past the end of the line.
18:10:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: I wonder if some tty-related magic ioctl can be used for this
18:11:22 <zzo38> b_jonas: I thought of that too but don't know if any such thing is possible.
18:13:08 <b_jonas> doesn't tcdrain allow this somehow?
18:13:26 <b_jonas> I mean, tcdrain together with some other side-band mechanism (not signals)
18:13:38 <b_jonas> nah, probably it doesn't
18:14:03 <b_jonas> oh
18:14:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Starfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50643&oldid=50642 * Redstarcoder * (+11) /* *> */ note mirror as outdated
18:15:22 <b_jonas> Perhaps you could use a protocol where the shell sends a long random number on a side-band, and a fixed escape sequence with that random number in it in the normal terminal stream, and the terminal makes sure to parse and find that escape sequence even when it's in a strange state that would normally not find that escape sequence.
18:16:30 <zzo38> That seems complicated
18:17:11 <b_jonas> sure it is
18:17:45 <b_jonas> it's probably easier to ensure that the terminal just can't be set into a mode where it doesn't listen to an ordinary init escape sequence (where you get to choose the exact string for that escape sequence)
18:18:20 <zzo38> Yes, that is what I suggested above about in-band, to use some sequence that can ensure it will work.
18:18:32 <zzo38> I should then just need to ensure that such a sequence exists.
18:18:54 <b_jonas> Or possibly use a break for this, for a linux pty can detect that I think.
18:19:21 <b_jonas> In-band has the advantage that it can work through ssh.
18:20:04 <zzo38> Yes, that is that.
18:20:21 <zzo38> In-band probably is best
18:22:14 <b_jonas> ah no, linux pty can't detect a break. it can detect some other special signals including flow control that the slave can send (on a local host, not necessarily through ssh) with ioctl TIOCPKT
18:22:42 <zzo38> As far as I know a break signal is not possible with pseudoterminals anyways. But I thought to implement it anyways so that when the break key is pushed it will read the IGNBRK and BRKINT flags in order to determine what to do.
18:23:18 <zzo38> (and also PARMRK)
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18:31:42 <zzo38> Is this possible to do?
18:40:15 <zzo38> I also thought that in response to a DECREQTPARM request it can use tcgetispeed(), tcgetospeed(), and tcgetattr() in order to determine how to respond. You can therefore change the reported baud rate if you have a slow connection to a telnet server in order to tell them to disable fancy stuff.
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19:28:04 <int-e> that was evil. "Is your New Year’s resolution to read more webcomics?"
19:28:22 <int-e> (from http://castoff-comic.com/comic/chapter-4-page-11/ )
19:33:28 <\oren\> why does expedia recommend i fly cheap to reykjavik
19:33:58 <shachaf> Why wouldn't you?
19:34:31 <\oren\> becuase its cold in ice land
19:34:56 <\oren\> also I doubt an airline called "WOW air" is any good
19:35:08 <shachaf> @metar BIRK
19:35:10 <lambdabot> BIRK 031900Z 10006KT CAVOK M00/M04 Q1026 R01/320150
19:35:21 <shachaf> it's only minus zero degrees
19:35:31 <int-e> . o O ( nothing like a whiff of fresh air during a flight )
19:35:33 <\oren\> probly land in vldivostok instead and get sent to gulag
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19:37:51 <\oren\> also why do so many flights have stops in atlanta
19:40:21 <\oren\> then again, a flight to ice land for only 240 canadian dollars is pretty impressive
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20:30:05 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
20:30:06 <lambdabot> EGLL 032020Z AUTO 26010KT 9999 OVC026 05/01 Q1025 NOSIG
20:30:41 <shachaf> @google 240 cad in usd
20:30:43 <lambdabot> No Result Found.
20:30:47 <shachaf> hmph
20:31:01 <shachaf> That is not a lot of USD.
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20:59:41 <\oren\> but I still haven't found out why expedia thinks i should go to ice land
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23:07:44 <boily> `wisdom
23:07:49 <HackEgo> json//JSON is JavaSyntax Or Nothing.
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00:42:24 <boily> hppavellon[0].
00:43:28 <shachaf> `dowg json
00:43:35 <HackEgo> 5841:2015-07-15 <mroman̈_> learn JSON is JavaSyntax Or Nothing.
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01:00:02 <quintopia> helloily
01:00:22 <quintopia> how do canadians feel about drake?
01:04:16 <boily> quinthellopia
01:04:20 <boily> what's a drake?
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01:27:07 <fizzie> Francis Drake?
01:29:05 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
01:29:06 <lambdabot> ENVA 040050Z 22003KT 9999 FEW023 BKN049 M04/M06 Q0996 RMK WIND 670FT 36004KT
01:30:09 <boily> oerjanland is below cow weather!
01:30:23 <boily> @metar CYUL
01:30:24 <lambdabot> CYUL 040100Z 04015KT 12SM -RA BKN006 BKN013 OVC020 00/M01 A2970 RMK SF5ST1SC2 SLP059
01:31:23 <oerjan> boiland is stealthily avoiding the cows, barely
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01:31:44 <oerjan> also that's some humidity.
01:34:09 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
01:34:09 <lambdabot> EGLL 040120Z AUTO 27009KT 9999 BKN024 03/01 Q1024
01:34:18 <fizzie> I don't think it will dip to cow territory here tonight.
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01:39:29 <quintopia> boily: a canadian musical artist
01:40:01 <quintopia> what is cow weather?
01:44:30 <fizzie> A temperature of M00.
01:50:35 <boily> oerjan: today was very humid. tomorrow will be a physicist's dream: frictionless surfaces everywhere.
01:51:26 <oerjan> frictionless cows, look out for vacuum...
01:52:00 <oerjan> (the vacuum will automatically make the cows spherical)
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01:52:38 <moony> testing if they put it back. again
01:52:41 <moony> www.google.com
01:52:44 <moony> okgood
01:52:58 <oerjan> https://www.google.com
01:53:17 <moony> oerjan, the regex is smart enough to recognize www.google.com :P
01:53:37 <moony> if it was working it would've gave site name (otherbot would've)
01:56:56 <quintopia> oerjan: tg
01:57:18 <quintopia> the image of cows spherizing in vacuum is vivid
01:57:26 <quintopia> and priceless
01:57:46 <oerjan> yw
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06:27:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XPML17]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50644 * Actuallyallama * (+1251) Created page with "XPML17 is a programming language created by [[User:actuallyallama]] in 2017. It was designed because the creator hates XML, so he decided to make a programming language based..."
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10:59:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Vitsy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50645&oldid=49709 * VTCAKAVSMoACE * (+56) Fix implementation infobox reference.
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11:39:23 <boily> tried to take a picture of the orange sky, but it turned green on my phone???
11:39:27 <boily> @metar CYUL
11:39:27 <lambdabot> CYUL 041100Z 36009KT 4SM -SN BR FEW004 OVC008 M02/M03 A2934 RMK SF2SF6 /S05/ SLP939
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13:28:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XPML17]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50646&oldid=50644 * Actuallyallama * (-91) Changed \n to
13:30:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XPML17]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50647&oldid=50646 * Actuallyallama * (+16) Fixed newline escapes
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14:39:31 <rdococ> soetreci
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16:09:23 <rdococ> ih
16:09:24 <rdococ> hi
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20:20:38 <zemhill> david_werecat.antigen: points 14.10, score 39.77, rank 4/47
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20:22:36 <zemhill> david_werecat.atom: points -5.17, score 13.79, rank 29/47 (-26)
20:22:54 <zemhill> david_werecat.antigen: points 14.10, score 41.59, rank 2/47 (--)
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22:23:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zonkobonko * New user account
22:27:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50648&oldid=50638 * Zonkobonko * (+420) /* Introductions */
22:27:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Turing machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50649&oldid=7833 * Zonkobonko * (+95)
22:28:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Turing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50650&oldid=50649 * Zonkobonko * (+24)
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22:46:32 <shachaf> fizzie: Should I use bazel to build software?
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22:49:31 <fizzie> I thought I might, but then haven't. I don't know how that would map to you.
22:50:28 <shachaf> I spent a bit of time trying to write a custom rule for building Haskell code.
22:50:33 <shachaf> But it's complicated.
22:51:08 <shachaf> It seems that writing custom rules is always going to be complicated. So it works better if you have a bunch of people writing all the rules you need for you.
22:51:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:51:38 <fizzie> I think it likely also works better if you have a bunch of people populating a third_party directory with all the software in the world for you.
22:51:40 <shachaf> Do you know why many languages have built-in rules?
22:51:49 <shachaf> Yes, that's also true.
22:51:59 <shachaf> Though bazel supports references to external repositories, at least.
22:52:06 <fizzie> I've got it installed, but I can't find any BUILD files other than the ones for bazel itself.
22:52:27 <shachaf> https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow has some
22:52:31 <shachaf> And https://github.com/google/kythe
22:52:38 <fizzie> I meant, on my system.
22:52:47 <shachaf> Oh, I see.
22:52:57 <fizzie> Although turns out there's also chromium/src/third_party/ijar/BUILD here.
22:53:09 <fizzie> # TODO(bazel-team): we should replace the -lz flag, it is non-hermetic.
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22:53:58 <shachaf> https://cs.chromium.org/search/?sq=package:chromium&type=cs&q=case:yes+f:BUILD$
22:55:00 <shachaf> Anyway I don't know whether I want bazel in particular, but I certainly want some of the ideas in bazel in any build system I use.
22:55:16 <shachaf> And there aren't many options other than bazel clones.
22:57:38 <fizzie> I think the next time I fiddle with an Android thing, I'll try to use bazel for it.
22:57:48 <fizzie> I wonder if bazel can build an Android thing that uses the NDK.
22:57:56 <shachaf> I heard Facebook's bazel clone was originally meant for building Android software.
22:58:16 <shachaf> https://buckbuild.com/
22:58:32 <shachaf> https://buckbuild.com/article/exopackage.html
22:59:32 <fizzie> https://bazel.build/versions/master/docs/be/android.html#android_library "Permitted library types are -- cc_library wrapping or producing .so native libraries for the Android target platform."
22:59:36 <fizzie> Maybe it can.
23:00:05 <fizzie> I wonder if it would be possible to make the home-Chrome to end up at that page if I type go/be#android_library.
23:00:35 <Guest63569> l
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23:00:54 <fizzie> I don't seem to be able to find an URL at that site that I could just type "android_library" at the end of.
23:02:38 <shachaf> You could write some JavaScript to redirect you to the right page.
23:03:04 <shachaf> But there's no easy mapping from rule name to page either that I can see.
23:03:39 <fizzie> There's the table in the "Overview" page, though I don't know if that's complete.
23:03:42 <fizzie> It seems a little short.
23:04:36 <shachaf> Oh man, look at the source of that page.
23:04:42 <shachaf> Maybe it's doing the thing I suggested.
23:05:01 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe not.
23:05:20 <shachaf> http://be.bazel.build/android#android_library
23:05:49 <shachaf> http://be.bazel.build/android/android_library
23:05:55 <fizzie> Yeah, there's a bit of that sort of thing.
23:06:04 <fizzie> I didn't even know of the 'be.bazel.build' link.
23:06:23 <fizzie> It doesn't seem to do the thing where it goes to the right page from the rule name though.
23:06:24 <shachaf> There's also cr.bazel.build
23:06:36 <shachaf> Until just now I didn't realize "cr" could plausibly stand for "code review"
23:06:45 <shachaf> I always thought it stood for that other word.
23:06:53 <shachaf> (But I always used "cl" anyway.)
23:07:21 <fizzie> I think cr/ is used much less, and also thought it meant that other word.
23:08:34 <fizzie> .build is a weird TLD anyway.
23:09:03 <fizzie> Is it one of those we bought, or someone else's general-porpoise one?
23:09:38 <shachaf> http://nic.build/
23:09:43 <shachaf> the construction world online
23:10:12 <shachaf> It's also used for https://please.build/
23:10:27 <shachaf> Which is yet another bazel clone. I know of three.
23:10:56 <fizzie> "Applicant: Plan Bee LLC"
23:12:07 <shachaf> fizzie: That page ought to have lookup by rule name. You should complain.
23:13:03 <fizzie> They'll probably just say they accept patches.
23:13:21 <fizzie> I don't know how the real go/be rule lookup works, probably by magic.
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23:18:37 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:18:37 <lambdabot> CYUL 042317Z 24029G36KT 3/4SM R24R/3500V5000FT/U R24L/4000V5500FT/N -SN BLSN BR OVC008 M01/M02 A2933 RMK SN2ST6 SLP935
23:18:41 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
23:18:41 <lambdabot> EGLL 042250Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 FEW045 02/M02 Q1030 NOSIG
23:19:04 <boily> cows weren't spherical today, but are being blown away.
23:20:00 <shachaf> fizzie: { let els = $("a[href^=' ']").filter((_, e) => e.innerText.startsWith("android_binary")); if (els.length === 1) window.location = els[0].href; } // hth
23:21:51 <shachaf> Or els[0].click()
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23:24:14 <shachaf> $("a[href^=' ']").each((_, e) => { if (e.innerText.startsWith("android_binary")) e.click(); })
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23:25:22 <shachaf> The trouble is that a third-party page can't do that.
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23:28:00 <fizzie> An extension could probably do it.
23:29:10 <fizzie> (I met some Chrome people today.)
23:38:01 <shachaf> Do you know about writing Skylark rules?
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23:40:18 <shachaf> fizzie: Another good thing to have if you're using bazel is a few data centers to build all your dependencies for you.
23:44:40 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
23:44:41 <lambdabot> ENVA 042320Z 13009KT 9999 FEW022 M15/M18 Q1029 RMK WIND 670FT 16008KT
23:44:45 <oerjan> BRRRR
23:44:59 <oerjan> wait, it didn't feel _that_ cold...
23:45:44 <oerjan> well, the airport is deeper inside the fjord.
23:47:49 <oerjan> hm looks like one of my daily multiple webcomic sites got discontinued over new year. now it redirects to wumo.com
23:48:04 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
23:48:05 <lambdabot> KOAK 042253Z 32006KT 10SM -RA OVC023 12/09 A2997 RMK AO2 RAB22 SLP149 P0000 T01220094 $
23:48:16 <shachaf> pretty cold tdnh
23:48:28 <fizzie> I heard it's cold in Fin-land these days.
23:48:31 <fizzie> @metar EFHK
23:48:31 <lambdabot> EFHK 042320Z 36012KT CAVOK M18/M22 Q1016 NOSIG
23:48:36 <fizzie> Well, that's pretty cold.
23:48:42 <oerjan> coldfirmed.
23:48:57 <fizzie> @metar EFRO
23:48:58 <lambdabot> EFRO 042320Z AUTO 30010KT CAVOK M25/M28 Q1023
23:49:11 <boily> Rovaniemi?
23:49:18 * Sgeo considers buying AmazonBasics headphones >.>
23:49:27 <fizzie> boily: Yeah, it's my standard "up north" airport to check.
23:49:37 <shachaf> Hmm, HackEgo could have a map of nick->ICAO
23:49:48 <Sgeo> Reviews seem to suggest that they're good for the price but a bit fragile. My expensive headphones lost their padding. Maybe I should just get superglue or something
23:49:48 <shachaf> Would make for covenient weather lookup.
23:49:51 * boily dances to steal extra warmth from shachafland
23:50:05 <fizzie> Someone I know is currently stuck at EFHK because Finnair cancelled their flight.
23:50:11 <shachaf> It could even use boily's existing database of approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh.
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23:50:16 <oerjan> shachaf: just use boily's file to gener... dammit
23:50:31 <fizzie> (Apparently Finnair is having some sort of an employee disagreement thing going on.)
23:50:52 <oerjan> @metar CYUL
23:50:52 <lambdabot> CYUL 042327Z 24023G38KT 1 1/2SM R24R/4000VP6000FT/U -SN BLSN BR FEW007 BKN013 OVC020 M01/M02 A2934 RMK SF1ST5SC2 PRESRR SLP939
23:51:01 <boily> @metar CYMT
23:51:01 <lambdabot> CYMT 042337Z AUTO 23015G23KT 5SM -SN OVC010 M05/M07 A2898 RMK SLP838
23:51:11 <boily> only -5 up there???
23:51:13 <oerjan> `icao CYMT
23:51:33 <HackEgo> Chapais Airport (YMT, CYMT)
23:52:02 <oerjan> is chapais to quebec like svalbard is to norway
23:52:16 <shachaf> KSAN
23:52:21 <shachaf> er
23:52:23 <shachaf> @metar KSAN
23:52:24 <lambdabot> KSAN 042251Z 33008KT 10SM SCT200 BKN250 18/07 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP186 T01830072
23:52:30 <oerjan> `icao KSAN
23:52:38 <HackEgo> San Diego Intl (SAN, KSAN)
23:52:40 <shachaf> @metar KSJC
23:52:41 <lambdabot> KSJC 042253Z 30008KT 10SM -RA FEW006 BKN012 OVC018 11/09 A2996 RMK AO2 RAB49 SLP146 P0000 T01110089
23:52:56 <shachaf> @metar LLBG
23:52:57 <lambdabot> LLBG 042320Z 11004KT 9999 FEW035 11/08 Q1024 NOSIG
23:53:22 <boily> oerjan: far from it! it's only just "up there", in the middle.
23:54:02 <boily> @metar CYAS
23:54:02 <lambdabot> No result.
23:54:38 <boily> @metar CYGQ
23:54:39 <lambdabot> CYGQ 042341Z 31012G18KT 3SM -SN DRSN BKN008 M22/M26 A2971 RMK SF6 SLP101
23:54:40 <boily> @metar CYGW
23:54:41 <lambdabot> CYGW 042340Z AUTO 03011G17KT 2SM -SN OVC021 M14/M16 A2931 RMK SLP929
23:55:31 <boily> @metar CYIK
23:55:31 <lambdabot> CYIK 042200Z 15012KT 15SM -SN DRSN FEW007 OVC027 M21/M24 A3003 RMK ST1SC7 SN CVR HARD PACK LAST OBS/NEXT 051300UTC SLP178
23:55:45 <boily> ↑ probably the northernmost airport in the province.
23:56:30 <oerjan> @metar ENRO
23:56:31 <lambdabot> ENRO 042350Z AUTO 21005KT 9999NDV OVC003/// M23/M25 Q1023
23:57:41 <oerjan> finnish RO narrowly beats norwegian
23:58:23 <oerjan> @metar ENSB
23:58:24 <lambdabot> ENSB 042350Z 17008KT 9999 BKN040 M07/M09 Q1006 NOSIG RMK WIND 1400FT 19010KT
23:58:54 <oerjan> and svalbard narrowly beats chamais
23:59:06 <oerjan> *chapais
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00:14:13 <fizzie> @metar EFIV
00:14:14 <lambdabot> EFIV 042350Z AUTO 22008KT 9999 -SHSN BKN020 OVC053 M24/M27 Q1021
00:14:16 <fizzie> Hm, no colder.
00:14:38 <shachaf> @metar KSEA
00:14:38 <fizzie> @metar EFET
00:14:38 <lambdabot> KSEA 042353Z 03011KT 10SM CLR 02/M10 A3028 RMK AO2 SLP264 T00171100 10022 21022 53009
00:14:38 <lambdabot> EFET 042350Z AUTO 00000KT CAVOK M34/M38 Q1022
00:14:43 <fizzie> Well, that's more like it.
00:15:01 <shachaf> Is "it" absolute 0?
00:18:15 <oerjan> `icao EFET
00:18:21 <HackEgo> Enontekio (ENF, EFET)
00:25:10 <fizzie> That translates literally to "unclemaker".
00:26:14 <oerjan> that seems like a strange name for a place.
00:26:42 <fizzie> The etymology is probably something completely different in reality, but that's what it sounds like.
00:26:45 * oerjan gets flashback to the south park movie.
00:27:10 <fizzie> I did also approximate "tekiö" -> "tekijä".
00:27:26 <oerjan> (the first one, in case they made more)
00:27:54 <boily> aren't like "o" and "ö" completely different vowels?
00:28:00 <fizzie> Fun fact: Finnish disambiguates between a mother's brother (eno) and a father's brother (setä), while English calls both uncles.
00:28:20 <oerjan> `icao ENRO
00:28:21 <fizzie> boily: Yes, but airports.dat doesn't deal with non-ASCII characters. The place is actually Enontekiö.
00:28:23 <HackEgo> Roros (RRS, ENRO)
00:28:33 <oerjan> figures.
00:28:39 <oerjan> (that's actually Røros)
00:29:01 <fizzie> I was going to ask if it was Rorøs.
00:29:47 <oerjan> no. that's a bit less likely, -os means end of river, essentially.
00:29:50 <fizzie> I've been to Å once.
00:30:34 <oerjan> i think i may have been at least twice.
00:30:53 <oerjan> (it's ancestor country.)
00:30:54 <fizzie> I think you've got more than one of them, though.
00:31:10 <oerjan> that too, but i don't recall being to more than one.
00:31:17 <fizzie> `icao ENRS
00:31:20 <HackEgo> Røst Airport (RET, ENRS)
00:31:29 <oerjan> wat
00:31:30 <fizzie> That's got them øs.
00:31:32 <fizzie> Yeah, IDGI.
00:31:45 <fizzie> Well, it's crowdsourced data, I believe.
00:32:03 <oerjan> i don't _think_ i've been to Røst, it's a bit of a ferry jump or something.
00:32:16 <oerjan> (from Å)
00:32:52 <fizzie> That sounds like it's the same Å, then.
00:32:53 <oerjan> while Å is on the contiguous lofoten road.
00:33:24 <oerjan> (it wasn't yet contiguous when i grew up, i think.)
00:33:49 <fizzie> We took the ferry from Å (or nearabouts) to Værøya, but not to Røst.
00:35:25 <oerjan> fizzie: swedish also distinguishes the uncles, while norwegian doesn't.
00:35:41 <oerjan> (also aunts)
00:36:17 <boily> an «oncle» is an «oncle». different words are confusing hth
00:36:46 <oerjan> farbror and morbror aren't very confusing, it's obvious even to norwegians what they mean.
00:37:09 <oerjan> but we just use "onkel" ourselves.
00:37:51 <oerjan> and "tante", we have a bit of french borrowing there.
00:39:59 <boily> is it also /tãt/, or was it norwegianified?
00:40:49 <oerjan> and "nevø" and "niese", and "kusine" (female only)
00:41:13 <olsner> boily: that pronunciation would be spelled tåt or something
00:41:28 <olsner> swedish has tant meaning just old lady, no auntiness implied
00:42:02 <fizzie> oerjan: So what's a male cousin then?
00:42:41 <oerjan> fizzie: "fetter". although in practice we often use the gender neutral "søskenbarn".
00:42:56 <fizzie> "Childish" Finnish speech can use "täti" (aunt) for non-family-member old ladies as well.
00:43:21 <oerjan> (that one's apparently a german borrowing)
00:43:26 <fizzie> Finnish "serkku" is just a cousin of any gender.
00:43:50 <shachaf> Finnish is pretty good.
00:43:54 <oerjan> oh and all of these refer to _only_ second cousins no removal
00:43:58 <oerjan> er
00:44:00 <oerjan> *first
00:44:16 <shachaf> I should get my Finnish passport renewed but it's embarrassing to go to the consulate and not speak any Finnish.
00:44:19 <fizzie> Same thing. Although we've got "pikkuserkku" for a second cousin.
00:44:26 <oerjan> second cousins etc. are "tremenning", "firmenning", ...
00:45:31 <fizzie> There's a bunch of entirely obsolete Finnish words for lesser cousins that I don't know of.
00:45:33 <oerjan> boily: it's norwegianified. stupid wiktionary lacks the ipa.
00:45:49 <oerjan> but all are the "obvious" sound for norwegian.
00:46:51 <oerjan> oh and there's the prefix "grand-" which can be applied to onkel, tante, nevø or niese to add a level.
00:47:48 <shachaf> grand-oerjan
00:48:44 <oerjan> but _not_ to parents or children to get the english grand-, for the first the prefix is "beste-" _or_ you can simply compose "far" and "mor".
00:49:54 <oerjan> (and composition works for children as well.)
00:50:12 <fizzie> I think Swedish does the farfar/farmor/morfar/mormor thing as well.
00:50:29 <fizzie> Can you do more than two levels?
00:50:44 <oerjan> and then there's "olde-", for the level above "beste-", which works in both directions. and then you add as many "tipp-" as you want to _that_.
00:51:21 <oerjan> so grandfather's grandfather can be "tippoldefar".
00:52:01 <oerjan> to be specific, i think you need to start using genitive, like "farfars farfar" or the like.
00:52:13 <oerjan> *more specific
00:52:33 <fizzie> Finnish just repeats the same prefix, so father -> isä, grandfather -> isoisä, great-grandfather -> isoisoisä, and so on.
00:53:03 <oerjan> how logical.
00:53:13 <oerjan> iso standard
00:53:19 <fizzie> I don't know if "isoisoisoisä" would really be considered acceptable any more, though.
00:54:24 <fizzie> ("esi-isä" would be any (male) ancestor.)
00:55:57 <oerjan> that would be "stamfar", i guess
00:57:24 <oerjan> although that may sort of imply the first common ancestor of a tribe. not that norway has tribes any more, generally.
00:58:29 <oerjan> ("stamme" = "tribe", in some usages. (also means trunk of a tree))
00:59:15 <fizzie> I was expecting something vaguely exponential, but Google says isä -> 7460000 results, isoisä -> 512000, isoisoisä -> 6050, iso^3isä -> 2570, iso^4isä -> 774, iso^5isä -> 394, iso^6isä -> 279, iso^7isä -> 10, iso^8isä -> 4, iso^9isä -> 4, iso^10isä -> 2, iso^11isä -> 2, iso^12isä -> 2, iso^13isä -> 1, iso^14isä -> 0.
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01:01:41 <oerjan> > map logBase (1/2) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
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01:01:45 <lambdabot> error:
01:01:45 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘[Integer] -> t’
01:01:45 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘[a0 -> a0]’
01:02:01 <oerjan> > map (logBase (1/2)) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:02:06 <lambdabot> [-22.830744199804688,-18.96578428466209,-12.56271942704932,-11.3275526440812...
01:02:09 <oerjan> argh
01:02:37 <oerjan> > map (logBase 2) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:02:40 <lambdabot> [22.830744,18.965784,12.562719,11.327553,9.5961895,8.622051,8.124122,3.32192...
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01:03:55 <oerjan> > map ((/13).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:03:57 <lambdabot> [7.692308e-2,6.390096e-2,4.2327266e-2,3.816565e-2,3.233221e-2,2.9050073e-2,2...
01:04:05 <oerjan> *sigh*
01:04:18 <oerjan> oh
01:04:27 <oerjan> > map ((*13).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: [Float]
01:04:30 <lambdabot> [13.0,10.799262,7.153308,6.449995,5.4641438,4.9094625,4.6259365,1.8915312,1....
01:04:46 <Zarutian> and that is why you do not use floats with fixed sized mantissa and exponent
01:05:07 <oerjan> what
01:05:51 <Zarutian> imprecision at certain points a long the number line
01:06:02 <Zarutian> s/a long/along/
01:06:34 <oerjan> > concatMap (printf("%.2f ").(*(13::Float)).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1]
01:06:37 <lambdabot> error:
01:06:37 <lambdabot> • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M723232078194...
01:06:37 <lambdabot> prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved.
01:06:41 <oerjan> ARGH
01:06:48 <oerjan> > concatMap (printf("%.2f ").(*(13::Float)).logBase 7460000) [7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1] :: String
01:06:52 <lambdabot> "13.00 10.80 7.15 6.45 5.46 4.91 4.63 1.89 1.14 1.14 0.57 0.57 0.57 0.00 "
01:07:35 <oerjan> ok, that is not very linear.
01:10:30 <fizzie> http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?cht=lc&chs=600x300&chd=t:7460000,512000,6050,2570,774,394,279,10,4,4,2,2,2,1&chds=a&chfd=0,x,0,20*log(x)
01:10:44 <fizzie> It took me too long to get that out.
01:11:03 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, I was hoping for a fizzie-style ASCII art histogram.
01:12:23 <fizzie> I've been thinking of writing a script to do plotting-related activities, with sensible heuristics for input and various output formats, including "Unicode block drawing for | sprunge".
01:13:07 <oerjan> dwimunge
01:13:31 <oerjan> (hm what does sprunge mean, anyway)
01:13:47 <shachaf> scow prunge hth
01:13:55 <shachaf> scow = scientific cow
01:14:06 <oerjan> funny, wiktionary's only definition for that is nynorsk
01:15:05 <shachaf> https://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Det_hev_ei_rose_sprunge
01:15:53 <oerjan> i considered learning that one in the original german. but i found out it had more weird theology than i like.
01:16:07 <oerjan> (for this christmas)
01:16:22 <shachaf> is there an example of nonweird theology
01:16:31 <oerjan> in principle not
01:16:56 <oerjan> but one is sort of acclimatized to the usual carol stuff
01:17:43 <oerjan> (Es ist ein Ros entsprungen, fwiw)
01:17:59 <oerjan> *ein' Ros'
01:18:36 <int-e> That text is weird even to me.
01:19:18 <int-e> The first line invites a pun though, "Es ist ein Ross entsprungen"
01:22:44 * boily feels like he should mapole int-e, but doesn't understand German whatsoever
01:23:01 <oerjan> ♫ Det hev ein kvalross sprunge... ♫
01:23:36 <oerjan> (i think the -ross in kvalross (walrus) may be cognate to de:Ross, but it's no longer used for horse in norwegian.)
01:23:56 <shachaf> int-e: what build system should i use twh
01:24:35 <int-e> boily: Ros' = Rose = rose; Ross = horse (somewhat old fashioned)
01:24:44 <int-e> shachaf: Lego (tm)
01:25:05 <oerjan> hm and en:horse is cognate as well, isn't it
01:25:30 <int-e> boily: but the point is that "entspringen" is not uncommon for running away, whereas using it for plants is quite unusual.
01:26:51 <int-e> shachaf: it's something that I don't think about much; for simple things I tend to write Makefiles, and I tend not to start big projects so I stick with whatever is already in place.
01:27:32 <int-e> And for pure Haskell projects, cabal is still the obvious choice I think.
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01:31:44 <shachaf> int-e: In my opinion it's ridiculous that every language thinks it needs to have its own build system and packaging system and package repository and everything.
01:31:50 <shachaf> There's no good reason for it.
01:32:45 <shachaf> Haskell and Cabal/Hackage, Rust and Cargo/Crates, Python and pip/easy_install/pypi/whatever, Ruby and gems, ...
01:32:48 <shachaf> It's such a mess.
01:32:50 <int-e> "The origin of the word walrus is thought by J.R.R. Tolkien[5] to derive from a Germanic language, and it has been attributed largely to either the Dutch language or Old Norse. Its first part is thought to derive from a word such as Dutch walvis 'whale'. Its second part has also been hypothesized to come from the Old Norse word for 'horse'.[6]"
01:33:43 <shachaf> Each of them has its own dependency management and all those things.
01:33:49 <int-e> shachaf: agreed but apparently it's something that people enjoy doing :P
01:33:58 <int-e> And obviously none of them are perfect.
01:34:01 <shachaf> What if you want to depend on a cross-language library, like a protobuf file?
01:34:10 <shachaf> You can't use any of these things effectively.
01:34:26 <FireFly> "From Old Norse hrosshvalr ‎(“horse-whale”)" hmm, I wonder why we inverted it...
01:34:32 <FireFly> hrosshvalr → valross
01:35:21 <int-e> And even the general purpose build systems are a mess... make doesn't handle configuration so there's autoconf+automake; then there's cmake, something awful called conscript, and I'm sure several dozen others.
01:37:12 <int-e> shachaf: anyway I see a problem but basically I see no way to solve it; all that can easily be accomplished is https://xkcd.com/927/
01:37:25 <shachaf> Well, hardly anyone is even trying.
01:38:43 <shachaf> Almost all of these systems are low-level and not declarative. It's scow.
01:39:18 <int-e> Make is declarative enough to actually get things done in a more or less modular fashion
01:40:22 <int-e> And in any case it's a hard problem if you want to cover all use cases. It's very easy to cover just what you need. Hence the proliferation of half-baked systems, I think.
01:40:43 <shachaf> make is declarative? In what sense?
01:40:56 <shachaf> You write out shell commands for every target!
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01:42:34 <int-e> The dependencies are declarative. You have pattern rules to describe how to build certain subparts. Order doesn't matter much...
01:46:55 <Zarutian> doesnt make and such systems violate the DRY principle (dont repeat yourself)?
01:49:12 <int-e> well, what is it that you think you're repeating?
01:53:38 <Zarutian> which modules depended on which submodules
01:53:53 <Zarutian> basically the dependency graph
01:54:12 <int-e> yeah a lot of effort goes into generating the obvious dependencies automatically, as a rule
02:16:42 <alercah> it's a me
02:16:44 <alercah> I am back
02:17:12 <boily> alercahello!
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02:25:55 <alercah> au revoily I guess
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02:33:36 <int-e> `grwp redundan
02:34:05 <HackEgo> dereduntantation:Dereduntantation is the process of making things less redundant. It is typically done with either regexes or regular expressions. \ redundancy:Since redundancy exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it. \ Binary file reflection matches
02:34:06 <int-e> fungot: are you faster than HackEgo?
02:34:07 <fungot> int-e: madam president, we are creating and financing software systems that allow dictatorial regimes and, increasingly, workers in precarious or atypical employment or workers with low salaries. against this background, it is not in a position really to define the most controversial mechanisms introduced by the fascist regime in power in burundi today. if the commission is not taking the kind of consensus that the mai should n
02:35:53 <Jafet> if language implementers provided tools to list module dependencies for use in makefiles, instead of proliferating new build systems
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02:36:27 <Jafet> as it is, fungot, every build system is its own dictatorial regime
02:36:27 <fungot> Jafet: we can only encourage the dutch presidency to be more easily mastered in future. in this world.
02:37:51 <int-e> fungot: you want them to be pushovers?
02:37:52 <fungot> int-e: mr president, it is absolutely essential for the smooth development of the media to participate in management board meetings provided that the text of the common cause. the commission's proposal more attractive to a larger number than 38 but there comes a time within a european framework to define the new instruments i welcome your offer of cooperation with a view to promoting cooperation between universities with due re
02:38:39 <int-e> spect.
02:39:10 <Jafet> endgram
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03:12:52 <pikhq> @metar KFLY
03:12:53 <lambdabot> KFLY 050255Z AUTO 35018G24KT 10SM OVC021 M16/M21 A2975 RMK AO2 T11591209
03:13:14 <shachaf> `icao KFLY
03:13:23 <pikhq> :P
03:13:32 <HackEgo> No output.
03:14:06 <pikhq> Just before we get 4 to 7 inches (10 to 18 cm) of snow. Yay.
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11:47:46 <boily> `wisdom
11:47:58 <HackEgo> plan9//Plan9 is the precursor to Dante's Inferno, home of the Limbo programming language.
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12:09:19 <boily> `? netsplit
12:09:23 <HackEgo> netsplit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:11:34 <b_jonas> Oh! They made an artifact-based convoke in the new set. Brilliant! That ought to be not as broken as affinity, but it still lets you use your Darksteel Relics.
12:12:54 <b_jonas> (M:tG)
12:18:42 <boily> b_jellonas. convoking artifacts is a little broken already. free mana for nothing, along with colourless lands...
12:20:33 <boily> nothing like being on the receiving end of an eldrazi rush.
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12:31:12 <b_jonas> boily: sure, but it won't be as broken as affinity.
12:31:32 <b_jonas> maybe it's only as broken as fast elves
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14:38:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50651&oldid=50595 * BeHuman * (+391)
14:48:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50652&oldid=50651 * BeHuman * (+0) /* Functions examples */
14:49:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50653&oldid=50652 * BeHuman * (+16) /* Operators */
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15:55:07 <rdococ> so many fucks
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16:56:16 <izabera> yo
16:56:20 <izabera> i need help with make
16:56:23 <izabera> i'll never learn it
16:56:30 <izabera> https://arin.ga/4M724y/raw
16:56:45 <izabera> when i type make without arguments, i expect it to run the rules for memmon.so and memmon
16:56:51 <izabera> but it only runs the one for memmon
16:56:54 <izabera> why that?
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16:59:20 <izabera> plz halp ;-;
16:59:26 <izabera> make is too esoteric for me
16:59:44 <ais523> izabera: make runs the first rule in the file, if given no arguments
16:59:51 <izabera> WHAT
16:59:54 <izabera> not all?
16:59:58 <ais523> so it's usual to have the first rule be something like «all: memmon memmon.so»
17:00:16 <izabera> THANK YOU
17:00:19 <ais523> (if you want bulding everything to be the default)
17:01:02 <izabera> where is this in the manual?!
17:01:11 <izabera> please don't say something like line 3
17:01:24 <ais523> 9.2, second paragraph :-)
17:02:09 <ais523> (that's not a joke, I have the manual open to that page right now in order to look up what the section number is)
17:02:33 <izabera> thank you for your help
17:03:56 <oerjan> ais523: too honest to pretend you've memorized it? :P
17:04:03 <ais523> make's manual is one of those things where you'll probably end up missing details whether you read it cover to cover or not
17:04:10 <ais523> oerjan: that'd be amusing but not too plausilbe
17:04:12 <ais523> *plausible
17:05:46 <oerjan> i recall reading that von neumann could recite books from memory.
17:05:55 <izabera> who wants to try this memmon thing?
17:05:57 <oerjan> of course he wasn't a very plausible person.
17:06:11 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/memmon plz try it
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17:09:37 <moonythedwarf> beep beep
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17:13:46 <oerjan> `learn The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
17:13:59 <HackEgo> Relearned 'markdown': The markdown flavor of the day is nutella.
17:15:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hq9++fan * New user account
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17:16:42 <moonythedwarf> '? the
17:17:16 * oerjan whistles innocently
17:17:38 <moonythedwarf> `? the
17:17:42 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
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17:18:10 <moonythedwarf> :o the entry fir 'the' contains itself.
17:18:24 <moonythedwarf> its recursive
17:18:38 <oerjan> `? recursion
17:18:40 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
17:18:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50654&oldid=50648 * Hq9++fan * (+180) /* Introductions */
17:18:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50655&oldid=38760 * Hq9++fan * (+67) categorized
17:19:34 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: it is likely that it was created by someone using an old version of `learn at random.
17:19:42 <oerjan> `cwlprits the
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17:20:04 <HackEgo> oerjän hppavilion[1̈] oren̈_ oerjän Rouj̈o
17:20:45 <moonythedwarf> oerjan, with you seeingly making other entrys like this, i suspected you would be involved. i was right
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17:21:09 <oerjan> only technically, i suspect.
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17:21:14 <oerjan> `dowt the
17:21:28 <HackEgo> 3524:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going through \x16trying\x16 to map entries that are being put in at the same time. \ 3571:2013-08-29 <oerjän> mv wisdom/the{,\' neverending work\'} \ 5997:2015-09-15 <oren̈_> le/rn the/the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 6805:2016-02-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo $RANDOM"
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17:21:56 <oerjan> huh it was \oren\ and it used le/rn
17:22:09 <oerjan> `dowg the
17:22:18 <HackEgo> 6808:2016-02-10 <oerjän> undo 7476893e7fc3 \ 6805:2016-02-10 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "echo $RANDOM" > wisdom/the meaning of life \ 5997:2015-09-15 <oren̈_> le/rn the/the Toe of Harriness\'s Enclosure \ 3571:2013-08-29 <oerjän> mv wisdom/the{,\' neverending work\'} \ 3524:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going t
17:22:54 <oerjan> all i did was clean up stuff
17:23:23 <moonythedwarf> `gwni taneb
17:23:40 <oerjan> also how can you possibly consider that to be my style, it breaks most of the rules of wisdom
17:23:45 <HackEgo> _46bit \ algebraic geometry \ automatic squirrel feeder \ bbc \ bdsm \ bogosort \ boxmodel \ chu space \ ci \ civilization \ costume \ cumin \ curry's paradox \ deniability \ denial \ dew \ d-module \ dragon \ ehird \ eliot \ eyebrow \ facebook \ fundamental theorem of taneb \ go \ grace period \ histogram \ it \ klein bottle \ lambek's lemma \ loc
17:23:59 <moonythedwarf> taneb is in ALL the things
17:24:09 <moonythedwarf> `? tachyon
17:24:12 <HackEgo> tachyon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:26:47 <Zarutian> `learn tachyon is a particle yet to be invented. Meta theorized to be a force carrier in thimotimoline molecules.
17:26:47 <oerjan> `learn The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
17:26:50 <oerjan> oops
17:27:08 <moonythedwarf> wow
17:27:13 <moonythedwarf> same millisecond
17:27:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'tachyon': The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up.
17:27:17 <HackEgo> Relearned 'tachyon': tachyon is a particle yet to be invented. Meta theorized to be a force carrier in thimotimoline molecules.
17:27:23 <oerjan> `revert
17:27:38 <oerjan> i claim priority on the principle that you misspelled thiotimoline hth
17:27:52 <HackEgo> Done.
17:28:01 <Zarutian> damn it! Wasnt prior enough ;-Þ
17:29:26 <moonythedwarf> `` gwni taneb > tanebEntries
17:29:40 <HackEgo> No output.
17:29:41 <moonythedwarf> `paste tanebEntries
17:29:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/tanebEntries
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17:29:56 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: you should pipe into paste hth
17:30:21 <moonythedwarf> 70 things contain taneb, and nice to know, thx
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17:32:46 <moonythedwarf> `` echo "Hello, World" | paste
17:32:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.16387
17:33:03 <oerjan> there's also the `1 and `spam commands, of course.
17:36:42 <moonythedwarf> `l doesnt exist.
17:36:44 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l: not found
17:37:04 <oerjan> OKAY
17:37:19 <moonythedwarf> ? why the caps
17:37:20 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: your font is inferior
17:37:32 <moonythedwarf> wait
17:37:32 <oerjan> i'm with \oren\
17:37:34 <moonythedwarf> thats a 1
17:37:37 <moonythedwarf> `1
17:37:41 <HackEgo> 1/0:
17:37:50 <moonythedwarf> `1 -h
17:37:53 <HackEgo> 1/1:/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: -h: command not found
17:38:05 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: fonts that don't distinguish between 1,l,I are bad.
17:38:11 <moonythedwarf> ik
17:38:21 <moonythedwarf> it does shwo the diffrence (Fairly well actually) im just dumb
17:38:41 <moonythedwarf> font: Monospace 9
17:38:45 <moonythedwarf> anything better?
17:39:04 <\oren\> 1lI| O0 2Z
17:39:28 <moonythedwarf> yup, i see the diffrence: one l I | O zero two Z
17:41:01 <\oren\> `'‘’‛′‵
17:41:01 <oerjan> 3З 4Ч
17:41:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: '‘’‛′‵: not found
17:41:26 <moonythedwarf> yup, diffrence seen. except for the two 33
17:41:36 <moonythedwarf> or are you tricking me
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17:41:46 <moonythedwarf> hiovoid
17:41:47 <oerjan> heh
17:41:50 <oerjan> i'm not
17:41:56 <moonythedwarf> whats the diffrence?
17:41:58 <\oren\> moonythedwarf: one of them is a russian letter
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17:42:04 <moonythedwarf> FFS
17:42:07 <moonythedwarf> hicizero
17:42:09 <\oren\> `unicode З
17:42:16 <HackEgo> U+0417 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ZE \ UTF-8: d0 97 UTF-16BE: 0417 Decimal: &#1047; \ З (з) \ Lowercase: U+0437 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
17:42:43 <moonythedwarf> well this font is a good-OK font then
17:42:51 <moonythedwarf> just misses some spots
17:43:02 <moonythedwarf> *makes his own font where everything is a '1'*
17:43:11 <\oren\> IⅠІ
17:43:36 <moonythedwarf> diffrence seen, except the first and last letters are identical? *unicodes them*
17:43:53 <moonythedwarf> `1 unicode IⅠІ
17:44:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I \ UTF-8: 49 UTF-16BE: 0049 Decimal: &#73; \ I (i) \ Lowercase: U+0069 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+2160 ROMAN NUMERAL ONE \ UTF-8: e2 85 a0 UTF-16BE: 2160 Decimal: &#8544; \ Ⅰ (ⅰ) \ Lowercase: U+2170 \ Category: Nl (Number, Letter) \ Numeric value: 1 \ Bidi:
17:44:07 <moonythedwarf> `1
17:44:11 <HackEgo> 1/0:
17:44:13 <oerjan> oops
17:44:15 <\oren\> `spam
17:44:17 <HackEgo> 2/0:
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17:44:40 <oerjan> TOO LATE
17:44:40 <moonythedwarf> oerjan, ?
17:44:40 <oerjan> `2 unicode IⅠІ
17:44:41 <HackEgo> 2/2:L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <compat> 0049 \ \ U+0406 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER BYELORUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN I \ UTF-8: d0 86 UTF-16BE: 0406 Decimal: &#1030; \ І (і) \ Lowercase: U+0456 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \
17:45:04 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: `1 always uses a new command. you want `spam (which can also be abbreviated `n)
17:45:16 <\oren\> my font is the master font
17:45:39 <moonythedwarf> oh hey there is a tiny diffrence (few pixels are shaded on the cyrillic I)
17:45:45 <moonythedwarf> \oren\, font download? :P
17:45:56 <moonythedwarf> or its name?
17:45:58 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters.ttf
17:45:59 <oerjan> fortunately, `2 is nice for when you forget.
17:46:07 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
17:46:13 <\oren\> (demo page)
17:46:20 <moonythedwarf> oh that one
17:46:30 <moonythedwarf> *downloads (i've seen it before)
17:46:54 <moonythedwarf> what foldr do fonts go to on ubuntu linux
17:47:31 <\oren\> /usr/share/fonts I think
17:47:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hq9++fan * uploaded "[[File:Code-golf.png]]"
17:48:15 <\oren\> no link?
17:48:37 <oerjan> a separate roman numeral 1? YOU GO TOO FAR
17:49:36 <\oren\> oerjan: it has to be different so that the upper and lower bar connects to adjoining numerals
17:49:43 <oerjan> oh
17:50:53 <\oren\> ⅩⅩⅩⅠ
17:51:30 <\oren\> you could also use the Ⅺ and Ⅻ characters though
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17:52:04 <oerjan> i can't actually see any of them
17:52:31 <\oren\> oerjan: well, I mean unicode has characters for roman numbers 11 and 12
17:52:40 <oerjan> heh
17:53:09 <\oren\> meaning that you could do (X)(X)(X)(I) or (X)(X)(XI)
17:53:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50657&oldid=50655 * Hq9++fan * (+180)
17:53:59 <\oren\> I have no explanation for ⒈⒉⒊⒋⒌⒍⒎⒏⒐ though
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17:55:13 <\oren\> there's also lowercase roman numerals
17:55:18 <\oren\> ⅰⅱⅲⅳⅴⅵⅶⅷⅸⅹⅺⅻ
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18:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50658&oldid=50656 * Hq9++fan * (+12)
18:13:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unreadable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50659&oldid=47047 * Hq9++fan * (+19) there is no default MediaWiki font, it's a browser setting
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18:19:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hello++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50660&oldid=38723 * Hq9++fan * (+276) /* Possibly not qualifying */
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18:55:43 <rdococ> swear I had the same idea as https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bool at one point
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19:09:34 <rdococ> wonder if hppavilion[1] is still working on Peano
19:09:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
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19:16:00 <int-e> The Peano Player.
19:17:47 <rdococ> oh well, I guess I'll use a different name?
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19:19:24 <\oren\> idea: alternative-universe C. Specifically, from a universe where Konrad Zuse's Plankalkuel was the first to gain general use.
19:19:59 <int-e> Zuse also built up datatypes from bits.
19:25:13 <\oren\> `grwp univers
19:25:24 <rdococ> again, am I the only one who considers int-e to be a type?
19:25:38 <\oren\> I thought he was -2
19:25:38 <HackEgo> intellectual property:Intellectual property is either the plot of land where a university campus is or otherwise a property which gives something an intellectual air or appearance. \ pikachu:Pikachu is a universal quantifier for Chu spaces. \ Binary file reflection matches \ tanebvention:Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity,
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19:26:36 <rdococ> int-e x = 3e;
19:27:07 <\oren\> `perl -e 'int - exp 1'
19:27:10 <HackEgo> No output.
19:27:18 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int - exp 1'
19:27:19 <HackEgo> No output.
19:27:29 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int - exp(1)'
19:27:30 <HackEgo> No output.
19:27:34 <\oren\> rrgh
19:27:46 <\oren\> `perl -e 'print int(- exp(1))'
19:27:47 <HackEgo> No output.
19:28:39 <\oren\> `perl 'print int(- exp(1))'
19:28:41 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "'print int(- exp(1))'": No such file or directory
19:28:48 <\oren\> `` perl -e'print int(- exp(1))'
19:28:50 <HackEgo> ​-2
19:28:55 <\oren\> FINALLY
19:29:01 <\oren\> `` perl -e'print int - exp 1'
19:29:03 <HackEgo> Warning: Use of "int" without parentheses is ambiguous at -e line 1. \ -2
19:29:16 <\oren\> int - e is -2
19:31:29 <rdococ> depends how you round it. could be -3.
19:35:13 <int-e> so much sp-e-culation.
19:36:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Help, WarDoq!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50661&oldid=43889 * Hq9++fan * (+23)
19:38:43 * rdococ is thinking som-e-thing dirty
19:39:52 <moonythedwarf> `le/rn moon/moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:39:54 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
19:40:24 <moonythedwarf> `le//rn moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:40:32 <HackEgo> Relearned 'moon': moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain
19:42:33 <rdococ> melloo
19:42:40 <rdococ> melloon
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19:47:40 <rdococ> wonder if someone's already took up the idea of true as a function that takes two arguments and returns the first, and false as one that returns the second
19:49:12 <int-e> yes
19:49:27 <int-e> One name for that is Church encoding, for example.
19:49:40 <rdococ> I've heard that term before
19:50:05 <int-e> (But I would expect that it has been reinvented a couple of times.)
19:50:36 <rdococ> so what I'm doing with Peano is Church encoding.
19:55:06 <int-e> . o O ( Even after its acquisition by Oracle, there's nothing new under the Sun. )
19:56:43 <shachaf> new lawsuits hth
19:57:07 <int-e> I think the pun Trumps the facts.
19:57:32 <\oren\> http://www.fireflyspace.com/vehicles/firefly-a
19:57:41 <int-e> How's Java doing these days? Are people scrambling to get off Oracle's turf?
19:57:55 <\oren\> aerospike engine!
20:00:40 <int-e> meh, marketing... buzzing with superlatives
20:01:26 <int-e> "The all-carbon fiber design makes the structural mass supremely light, enabling the maximum payload capacity."
20:01:45 <int-e> Isn't carbon flammable... :P
20:02:14 <rdococ> . o O ( carbon flammable? that's a new one )
20:03:01 <int-e> inflammable if you prefer :P
20:03:52 <int-e> (But I'm mainly objecting to calling the composite carbon fiber/epoxy (typically?) composite just "carbon")
20:04:56 <int-e> "The results speak for themselves." - so when was the successful test flight?
20:06:06 <int-e> http://www.fireflyspace.com/news/ournews/full-mdc-test-success never got off the ground :-P
20:08:26 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: My microwave oven blew the fuse).
20:08:38 -!- nortti has joined.
20:08:50 <int-e> wow, http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/x-33/aerospik.htm is an eye sore
20:09:15 <int-e> (and the links are broken)
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20:13:38 <izabera> https://irssi.org/2017/01/05/irssi-1.0.0-released/
20:13:59 <ybden> They finally got out of beta
20:14:02 <ybden> And it's still terrible
20:14:07 <ybden> After all these years
20:14:45 <izabera> can't wait for 2.0
20:15:16 <int-e> hmm. terrible?
20:15:51 <int-e> it's not perfect... but nothing really is.
20:36:02 <\oren\> I'm running an irssi that I compiled myself
20:37:15 <\oren\> I guess I need to grab the new release and compile that
20:38:31 <\oren\> meh, those updates don't seem important
20:39:45 <\oren\> I'm also running a tmux I compiled myself because ubuntu doesn't update their repositories in a timely manner
20:42:20 * APic let his Machine compile v0.8.20 their(?)self too, and since 1.0.0 does not seem to be a Security-Release, i will not bother compiling that one right now
20:43:58 <nortti> just in case that was not a typo, 0.8.21 is the newest security release
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20:45:12 <\oren\> hais523
20:46:00 <ais523> wb me
20:47:30 <\oren\> I wonder how long the average OSS project takes to get to 1.0
20:48:04 <\oren\> 5 years?
20:51:29 <ais523> \oren\: C-INTERCAL retroactively changed its version numbering system so that the very first development version was effectively 1.0
20:52:06 <ais523> come to think of it, so did Firefox, and Linux (both of which dropped the major version number and bumped the minor up to a major, which would convert 0.1 to 1.0)
20:52:53 <APic> wb ais523
20:53:09 -!- APic has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah | Celebrate Mungday.
20:53:30 <ais523> why are there two spaces between "Esoteric" and "Programming"
20:53:39 <APic> No Idea.
20:53:52 <APic> I did not change this Part of the Topic. ☺
20:54:08 <int-e> could be my fault
20:55:25 <int-e> (because the output of /topic has a line break after "Esoteric" here)
20:56:08 -!- int-e has set topic: The international hub for Esoteric Programming | http://esolangs.org/ | RIP Carrie Fisher. She will be missed. | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive pizza testing, use #esoteric-blah | Celebrate Mungday.
20:56:11 <APic> Has or had?
20:56:18 * APic used /topic <TAB>
20:56:21 <int-e> both.
20:56:27 <APic> Uh oh.
20:56:47 <int-e> APic: the line break is added by the client to fit into 80 columns
20:56:50 <APic> But only on Your Window?
20:56:53 <APic> Good.
20:58:09 <APic> Well, RFC1459 only seems to describe <crlf> as CR LF… so an ircd could in Theory allow CR _or_ LF inside Messages =]
20:58:21 <int-e> ...
20:59:25 <pikhq> I suspect in practice an ircd is likely to treat CR, CR LF, and LF as newlines.
20:59:45 <int-e> APic: well actually CR and LF are excluded in the definition of <middle> and <trailing>
21:00:44 <APic> k
21:01:04 <int-e> (which doesn't contradict what you said)
21:01:58 <int-e> in fact since I've used IRC through netcat, I'm pretty sure LF is treated as CR LF by freenode at least :)
21:02:43 <APic>
21:08:16 <ybden> It is, but that's noncompliant
21:08:58 <fizzie> A very common extension, though.
21:16:14 <FireFly> Right, I think it's common for all of CR, LF and CR LF to work equally well
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21:28:59 <Tea3> .
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22:06:38 <\oren\> Tonight I'll finish my ttf analysis program and figure out why I have to run my ttfs through fontforge to make them valid for eindows
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22:41:05 <\oren\> windows just doesn't like my ttfs
22:43:06 <\oren\> with that and the bdf editor i'm working on, i will be able to totally eliminate fontforge from the equation
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23:24:15 <zzo38> I am not sure what use the SDL multithreading functions are if SDL_PushEvent() is not threadsafe. So I have to use SDL_SysWMEvent instead which is a bit klugy and non-portable.
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23:24:53 <ais523> zzo38: I had the same problem a while back! I didn't find a good solution either
23:25:18 <zzo38> Did you use any solution though?
23:25:24 <ais523> (I can confirm that SDL_PushEvent() is not threadsafe, though; not only is it not documented as threadsafe, I actually managed to get it to deadlock in practice)
23:25:29 <ais523> I changed the code to use polling
23:25:35 <ais523> which is a solution, but a bad one
23:25:48 <ais523> I reasoned that it wouldn't hurt that much as SDL does so much polling internally anyway
23:29:37 <zzo38> I instead used SDL_SysWMEvent. However what I did is only compatible with X11, so to work on Windows too will require use of #if or #ifdef to compile different thing for Windows; and another different thing may be needed if it is wanted to worked on FreeDOS or on Linux framebuffer mode, and so on.
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23:33:05 <zzo38> Do you think that a threadsafe version of SDL_PushEvent() should be made up so that it can work?
23:34:58 <zzo38> The document for threads says that event functions are not threadsafe, but that SDL_PushEvent() specifically is threadsafe within a timer callback.
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23:41:00 <ais523> I'd like an async-signal-safe version of SDL_PushEvent()
23:41:08 <ais523> but am not sure how you'd write it
23:49:15 <zzo38> Yes, that is what would be help.
23:52:51 <Zarutian> ais523: willing to limit yourself to architectures that have compare-and-swap instruction?
23:53:24 <ais523> Zarutian: if necessary, although I'd rather use a portable wrapper
00:02:30 <zzo38> How is SDL_SysWMEvent implemented on Macintosh?
00:02:50 <shachaf> Which version of Macintosh?
00:03:09 <zzo38> Mac OS X
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00:42:22 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
00:42:23 <lambdabot> EGLL 060020Z AUTO VRB01KT 3600 BR NCD M01/M01 Q1037 NOSIG
00:42:29 <fizzie> Oh no, it's below cow.
00:43:16 <oerjan> s(ub)cow weather
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00:59:58 <shachaf> @metar ENVA
00:59:58 <lambdabot> ENVA 060050Z 07004KT 340V120 CAVOK M05/M09 Q1028 RMK WIND 670FT 15014KT
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01:00:13 <oerjan> heating up
01:06:47 <fizzie> @metar EFHK
01:06:48 <lambdabot> EFHK 060050Z VRB02KT CAVOK M21/M24 Q1036 NOSIG
01:06:50 <fizzie> Cooling down.
01:06:57 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
01:06:57 <lambdabot> KOAK 060053Z 33005KT 10SM FEW180 09/02 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP177 T00890017
01:07:05 <shachaf> so cold
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01:14:33 <oerjan> wut
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01:15:41 <int-e> <@grumble> twoservers were taken down for maintenance
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01:18:25 <oerjan> there was a notice but i only saw it after it happened.
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01:18:47 <boily> @metar CYUL
01:18:48 <lambdabot> CYUL 060100Z 25012KT 15SM BKN050 BKN075 M06/M11 A2980 RMK SC5AC1 SLP094
01:19:36 <int-e> aww, I didn't get a notice.
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01:19:58 <boily> int-ello!
01:20:00 <int-e> and yes I do have +w set
01:20:13 <oerjan> <\oren\> `perl -e 'int - exp 1' <-- this is painful to watch
01:20:28 <oerjan> int-e: i guess you were on the other server, then.
01:20:44 <int-e> yeah
01:20:49 <int-e> (to both)
01:25:25 <oerjan> `slwd moon//s/hellos/& and @tells/
01:25:34 <HackEgo> moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
01:32:40 <int-e> `unidecode ₙ
01:32:43 <HackEgo> U+2099 LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER N \ UTF-8: e2 82 99 UTF-16BE: 2099 Decimal: &#8345; \ ₙ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: <sub> 006E
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01:42:44 <boily> `` grep -FI reflectory wisdom/*
01:42:53 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory
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01:43:11 <boily> `` grep -FIrs reflectory wisdom/*
01:43:12 <HackEgo> No output.
01:43:17 <boily> `relcome xkapastel
01:43:20 <HackEgo> xkapastel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:43:27 <boily> `cwlprits moon
01:43:29 <HackEgo> oerjän moonythedwar̈f moon_̈_ oerjän moon_̈_ int-̈e oerjän boil̈y Moon̈_ boil̈y
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01:52:59 <oerjan> boily: `grwp is highly recommended hth
01:53:47 <oerjan> `dowg moon
01:53:49 <HackEgo> 10101:2017-01-06 <oerjän> slwd moon//s/hellos/& and @tells/ \ 10100:2017-01-05 <moonythedwar̈f> le//rn moon//moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos a real pain \ 8585:2016-06-23 <moon_̈_> learn_append moon He sometimes causes overmoonification. \ 8584:2016-0
01:54:00 <oerjan> `2 dowg moon
01:54:03 <HackEgo> 2/3: \ 8584:2016-06-23 <oerjän> revert \ 8583:2016-06-23 <moon_̈_> learn_append moon . He sometimes causes overmoonification \ 8483:2016-06-14 <int-̈e> ` sed -i s/person/lunatic/ wisdom/moon \ 8444:2016-06-11 <oerjän> sled wisdom/moon//s/a/a murderous/ \ 7522:2016-04-23 <boil̈y> le/rn moon/Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectore
01:54:17 <oerjan> `n
01:54:18 <HackEgo> 3/3:y object. \ 7521:2016-04-23 <Moon̈_> learn moon is a person, not an object \ 4400:2014-02-06 <boil̈y> echo \'The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.\' >wisdom/moon
01:59:51 <boily> oerjan: y'all with your logical `commands for effectively wisdoming...
02:00:09 <oerjan> y'ep.
02:02:40 * boily *mumble mumble* dans mon temps *mumble* tsé *mumble*
02:03:44 * oerjan brings out a lawnchair for boily, with built in waving cane
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02:16:47 <boily> `wisdom
02:16:48 <HackEgo> keenlist//keenlist is notification for when Tom Hall finally acquires the necessary intellectual property rights to create the videogame series Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast
02:16:51 <boily> `wisdom
02:16:53 <HackEgo> internet//The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
02:17:14 <boily> . o O ( the internet is for porn, the internet is for porn ♪ )
02:18:04 <oerjan> . o O ( ... and double click, for porn, porn, porn ♪ )
02:20:40 * oerjan probably got that link from here, anyway
02:31:07 <\oren\> `5 wisdom
02:31:11 <HackEgo> 1/2:google//Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. \ mole//Mole is an SI unit for measuring large numbers of burrowing teeth. \ links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case java
02:31:19 <\oren\> `spam
02:31:20 <HackEgo> 2/2:script wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. \ grammar//Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax. \ phantom__hoover//Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
02:32:55 <boily> he\\oren\. could you font 鼠 please?
02:33:24 <\oren\> `unicode 鼠
02:33:27 <HackEgo> U+9F20 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9F20 \ UTF-8: e9 bc a0 UTF-16BE: 9f20 Decimal: &#40736; \ 鼠 (鼠) \ Uppercase: U+9F20 \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
02:33:32 <\oren\> k
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02:43:39 <xkapastel> anyone here familiar with illative combinatory logic?
02:44:34 * oerjan vaguely recalls it being mentioned before, but it may have been by you
02:45:28 <xkapastel> i don't think i've mentioned it in this chat before, and it's kind of obscure so i can see esolang people being interested in it
03:09:07 <fizzie> We discussed the Finnish illative noun case in May 2010, December 2011, August 2012, January 2013, October 2014 and March 2015, that's all I can find hth
03:09:41 <fizzie> (Deewiant also mentioned "titillative minutiae" in April 2009, but that's probably even less relevant.)
03:12:52 <oerjan> darn
03:13:38 <\oren\> 鼠 will be in the next version
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03:21:17 <ais523> xkapastel: I'm a fan of combinators but don't know what that is
03:22:14 <xkapastel> yeah it seems more and more obscure the more i search
03:22:18 <xkapastel> it's sad
03:22:52 <xkapastel> the tl;dr is it's a way of making a kind of proof assistant/theorem proving environment like agda or idris, but with combinators instead of lambda abstraction
03:23:55 <xkapastel> if you're ever tried to implement or work with a combinator language, you may have noticed that you still need lambda to do typed
03:23:56 <xkapastel> types*
03:24:05 <xkapastel> ILC would help solve that
03:24:35 <xkapastel> unfortunately it seems like haskell curry was literally one of the last five people to work on it
03:25:00 <xkapastel> all the hype is in type theory these days
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03:26:56 <ais523> hmm, this seems like it's a similar level of scary as dependent typing
03:27:07 <ais523> I approve of dependent typing as an esotopic, but it's not something I've put much effort into trying to understand
03:27:22 <ais523> (some of my coworkers attempted to use it; it didnt really end up going all that well)
03:27:58 <xkapastel> it's the same topics as dependent typing except without the community of excited haskellers blogging about it
03:28:05 <xkapastel> so it's very hard to learn
03:30:13 <xkapastel> if i figure it out i'll make a nice esolang post about it though
03:30:19 <xkapastel> i do think esolang people will appreciate it
03:30:59 <xkapastel> at the very least it's like, 2 extra constrants to unlambda/io/jot
03:32:02 <xkapastel> if you're brave enough you can port some agda stuff to totally unreadable unlambda code
03:44:49 <ais523> an Unlambda-based proof assistant would be a sort of esolang that hasn't been done yet
03:45:01 <ais523> those are always nice to see
04:08:41 <zzo38> OK, do that
04:10:16 <zzo38> Is the reason for the INTERCAL gopher server being IPv6-only because IPv6 does not need the "Host:" headers that HTTP has?
04:13:15 <ais523> zzo38: I don't know the reason, however my guess is that it'd be related to not wanting or being able to run the server dual-stack, and possibly the server has no IPv4 connectivity
04:13:22 <ais523> it might just be because it's INTERCAL
04:27:56 <Hoolootwo> is it INTERCAL on INTERSTATES or is it I/O?
04:28:04 <Hoolootwo> err binary i/o
04:28:12 <ais523> Hoolootwo: binary I/O
04:28:19 <Hoolootwo> fancy
04:28:19 <ais523> the web framework is probably a different language at this point?
04:28:35 <ais523> err, wait, I may have completely missed the context of the question
04:28:43 <ais523> the answer is still correct I think, but only by chance
04:29:02 <Hoolootwo> I'm... not sure it's a clear question
04:29:12 <Hoolootwo> but I'm pretty sure I understand what's happening
04:30:22 <ais523> put it this way, the context I originally assumed can't possibly have been correct
04:30:30 <ais523> but binary I/O is the standard that's used by almost everything
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06:12:00 <zzo38> I made a SDL library to use in JavaScript but the SDL.prototype.quit function responds slowly; all of the other functions are fast. Do you know why that one is slow?
07:10:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": better image
07:11:55 <\oren\> 暫曇曖曾替朕杯析枕枠枢枯架柄某
07:11:55 <\oren\> 柔柳柵栃栓鼠
07:12:28 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x1695 0x169C
07:12:39 <HackEgo> ​ᚕᚖᚗᚘᚙᚚ᚛᚜
07:12:56 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2C80 0x2CB1
07:12:57 <HackEgo> ​ⲀⲁⲂⲃⲄⲅⲆⲇⲈⲉⲊⲋⲌⲍⲎⲏ \ ⲐⲑⲒⲓⲔⲕⲖⲗⲘⲙⲚⲛⲜⲝⲞⲟ \ ⲠⲡⲢⲣⲤⲥⲦⲧⲨⲩⲪⲫⲬⲭⲮⲯ \ Ⲱⲱ
07:14:18 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x1680 0x169C
07:14:19 <HackEgo> ​ ᚁᚂᚃᚄᚅᚆᚇᚈᚉᚊᚋᚌᚍᚎᚏ \ ᚐᚑᚒᚓᚔᚕᚖᚗᚘᚙᚚ᚛᚜
07:14:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": it did not work?
07:15:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hq9++fan * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Code-golf.png]]": Reverted to version as of 07:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
07:16:11 <\oren\> So yah, ogham and coptic are in
07:40:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50665&oldid=50653 * BeHuman * (+40) /* Code */
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08:49:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50668&oldid=45784 * Hq9++fan * (-1)
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08:53:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50669 * Hq9++fan * (+93) Created page with "I'm a fan of simple esoteric/joke languages. My favorite is HQ9++ which is "object oriented"."
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10:25:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CodeFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50670&oldid=50665 * BeHuman * (+23) /* C */
10:37:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50671&oldid=46702 * Hq9++fan * (+8)
10:42:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Object-oriented paradigm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50672&oldid=45271 * Hq9++fan * (+100)
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11:39:44 <boily> `wisdom
11:40:19 <HackEgo> mapole//A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
11:42:55 <Taneb> Helloily
11:43:15 <boily> Tanelle!
11:44:36 <b_jonas_> hello
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11:44:50 <b_jonas> hello_
11:44:58 <boily> b_jellonas_!
11:48:45 <Taneb> bonjournas
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13:11:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50673&oldid=50664 * Hq9++fan * (+23)
13:11:40 <Taneb> What's the most common convention in brainfuck for attempting to output negative numbers?
13:13:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50674&oldid=50669 * Hq9++fan * (+184)
13:13:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hq9++fan]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50675&oldid=50674 * Hq9++fan * (+2)
13:15:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:GolfJoke]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50676&oldid=35637 * Hq9++fan * (+63)
14:06:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[05ab1e]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50677 * Hq9++fan * (+24) Created page with "It's a golfing language."
14:39:39 <Taneb> I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in Agda! https://gist.github.com/Taneb/a4e166c913265f837f2216fa5e707b95
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16:00:21 <b_jonas> Taneb: that looks scary
16:00:54 <b_jonas> Taneb: I believe the most common convention is that cells store numbers modulo 256 so each number is printed as a different byte
16:06:57 <izabera> is there a zip (or gzip or xz or...) quine?
16:07:31 <Taneb> I believe I've heard of one
16:08:51 <Taneb> https://research.swtch.com/zip and https://alf.nu/ZipQuine
16:09:31 <izabera> daaaaaamn
16:09:37 <b_jonas> yep, what he says
16:09:55 <b_jonas> Taneb was faster
16:11:34 <Taneb> My brainfuck implementation is not faster than anything :(
16:13:42 <\oren\> I continue to predict that trump's healthcare law will amaunt to renaming it TrumpCare.
16:18:08 <rdococ> probably
16:24:31 <rdococ> wonder what kind of programming language would symbolise trump
16:25:38 <rdococ> wonder why Hq9++fan created that image to replace the "code golf" phrase
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16:36:33 <fizzie> That's odd.
16:37:19 <oerjan> even so.
16:37:31 <fizzie> Not only odd, it's also an accessibility issue.
16:44:46 <rdococ> exactly
16:49:25 <rdococ> unless you add alt text
16:50:10 <rdococ> still odd
16:52:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50678&oldid=50671 * Oerjan * (-8) Undo revision 50671 by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) (Golfing is not a primary characteristic of this language. In fact, anything nontrivial is bloody verbose.)
16:53:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50679&oldid=50668 * Oerjan * (+1) Undo revision 50668 by [[Special:Contributions/Hq9++fan|Hq9++fan]] ([[User talk:Hq9++fan|talk]]) (Removing the link is not helpful)
16:54:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Golfing language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50680&oldid=50679 * Oerjan * (-20) OTOH, we have our own page.
17:06:36 <rdococ> urgh
17:06:44 <rdococ> Peano does not sound very esoteric right now
17:07:54 <oerjan> make it crazier and rename it Peanuts
17:08:32 <rdococ> how will I make it crazier?
17:08:55 <rdococ> Peano is literally lambda calculus.
17:08:55 <oerjan> that's your job
17:09:03 <oerjan> i just do the puns around here
17:09:21 <Taneb> rdococ, have you seen Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download?
17:09:36 <rdococ> uh
17:09:41 <rdococ> ok
17:09:42 <rdococ> no
17:09:50 <Taneb> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is literal lambda calculus
17:09:56 <Taneb> Very literal
17:10:09 <Taneb> Or possibly literate
17:10:29 <rdococ> can you give me an example?
17:10:59 <Taneb> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download
17:11:06 <rdococ> o____________________________o
17:12:08 <Taneb> Hmm
17:12:23 <rdococ> so how will I create crazy lalculus?
17:12:32 <Taneb> A language with 2D semantics, but 1D syntax, should that be in Category:Two-dimensional languages?
17:12:40 <Taneb> (in particular, COMPLEX)
17:14:05 <oerjan> Taneb: see the talk page
17:14:57 <Taneb> oerjan, does not apply, COMPLEX's memory is exclusively named variables, but its instructions are placed on a 2D grid
17:15:08 <b_jonas> whcih sort? eager or lazy?
17:15:26 <Taneb> But are written sequentially with line numbers
17:15:31 <oerjan> oh
17:16:12 <Taneb> https://github.com/Taneb/COMPLEX/blob/master/examples/FIB.1%2B1J for example
17:18:04 <rdococ> o_o
17:18:17 <oerjan> i'm vaguely of the principle that this ought to be discussed _on_ the wiki.
17:18:31 <oerjan> so still see the talk page.
17:20:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50681&oldid=30636 * Taneb * (+375)
17:20:59 <Taneb> OK then
17:21:27 <fizzie> Taneb: FWIW, I think there's at least one language in the category already where the syntax is "conventional". I'll see if I can find it.
17:22:27 <fizzie> 2DP is the first one I came along.
17:24:04 <Taneb> Hmm, COMPLEX is already in the category
17:24:20 <Taneb> Seems I was more confident back when I made it
17:28:22 <rdococ> hmm
17:28:29 * rdococ ponders the logic of Peanuts
17:29:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50682&oldid=50681 * Fizzie * (+352) Opine.
17:30:22 <fizzie> I'm wrong about 2DP. :/
17:30:26 <fizzie> I read the examples too fast.
17:32:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category talk:Two-dimensional languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50683&oldid=50682 * Fizzie * (+164) Undo! Revert! Rollback!
17:33:36 <rdococ> erh
17:37:41 <rdococ> whoever wrote https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_evaluation is lazy
17:38:55 <b_jonas> today's xkcd talks about irc
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17:45:42 <int-e> it's NOT funny!!!!1
17:50:20 <rdococ> lol...
17:51:04 <rdococ> don't worry. I'm sure he'll have merged with the singularity by 1e+10.
17:56:45 <int-e> oh will you look at that, BTC is below $1k again.
17:56:48 <int-e> SURPRISE!
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18:14:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50684&oldid=49929 * Hq9++fan * (-21) /* Brevity */
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18:19:23 <rdococ> hm
18:19:37 <rdococ> a crazy version of lambda calculus
18:26:21 <b_jonas> what? Real Fast Nora Hair Salon 2: Shear Disaster Download isn't crazy
18:26:24 <b_jonas> it's just verbose
18:28:27 <shachaf> itym 3 hth
18:28:32 <shachaf> also Nora's
18:28:38 <shachaf> unless you're talking about a slightly different language
18:29:46 <b_jonas> yeah, that
18:30:16 <int-e> this is neat. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/01/an_sql_injectio.html
18:31:10 <shachaf> int-e: missing a quote at the beginning tdnh
18:31:11 <b_jonas> int-e: isn't that missing an apostrophe at the beginning?
18:31:21 <b_jonas> shachaf ninjaed me
18:31:49 <shachaf> also why do people seem to think xkcd invented sql injection?
18:31:51 <int-e> b_jonas: yeah, hmm.
18:32:00 <int-e> shachaf: do they now?
18:32:11 <int-e> xkcd made it into a meme.
18:33:15 <b_jonas> why would they use that name, which rarely works because it requires a table named just right, instead of something like ' OR 1 = 1 OR '
18:34:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm going to advance the wild theory that perhaps they were not in fact attempting a serious cyberattack on companies house
18:34:51 <b_jonas> by the way, I'm considering to make urls such that they sometimes end in a dot or close parenthesis, which will often break some stupid conventions and code that for some reason don't want to delimit urls properly
18:35:16 <b_jonas> I've seen one that wasn't related to markdown, but I don't remember what it was now
18:35:30 <Phantom_Hoover> what conventions and code
18:36:14 <Phantom_Hoover> xchat doesn't consider brackets to be part of a URL but that's the sort of issue that's inevitable when you're trying to heuristically pick them out of chat
18:36:39 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: conventions where people quote an url in a sentence and add a period or comma that isn't part of the url, not separated in any way;
18:36:44 <Phantom_Hoover> with markdown it's just another instance of it being a clusterfuck of in-band syntax
18:36:58 <b_jonas> code like the markdown parser stack exchange uses
18:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> reading reddit comments quite frequently turns into picking apart markdown gore
18:37:44 <Phantom_Hoover> especially if the poor fool writing the comment tried to use * to denote multiplication
18:39:16 <rdococ> http://xkcd.com/1683/
18:39:34 <b_jonas> For square brackets, the problem is backwards. When URL's were designed, they weren't supposed to require unqouted square brackets, and mediawiki is right to use square brackets to delimit urls in some cases. But later people invented this VERY STUPID syntax extension for http urls where an ipv6 address in colon notation is surrounded by square brackets. that's just stupid. they should've used any of lots of other available delimiters, including parenthe
18:40:04 <zzo38> Use the notation like <telnet://localhost/> for example
18:41:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, that or double quotes or putting urls on their own line is what people should do in most cases, and at least put urls in separate word separated by spaces in casual conversation if you don't even want a double quote.
18:41:16 <shachaf> <zzo38://localhost/>
18:41:51 <b_jonas> I usually use double quotes. Some stupid clients other people use actually discourage that, because they don't recognize urls that are double-quoted. (It's the same problem as with irc NOTICE really.)
18:42:11 <b_jonas> s/usually/often/
18:42:21 <b_jonas> I almost never use angle brackets
18:43:39 <shachaf> <> is specified in some RFC.
18:46:05 <rdococ> nolle
18:46:51 <shachaf> Sometimes I like unescaped double quotes in my URLs.
18:47:44 <b_jonas> shachaf: iirc some old rfc says use either <> or ""
18:47:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: I don't think that's allowed in urls
18:48:13 <b_jonas> single quotes are, sure, and dollar signs and commas and semicolons and parenthesis too
18:48:15 <shachaf> But sometimes I do it anyway.
18:54:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:Code-golf.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50685 * Rdococ * (+254) Is this necessary?
19:07:39 <zzo38> The format <> is also used in RDF Turtle format too
19:10:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
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19:15:17 <\oren\> let's see:
19:16:16 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/evil"file
19:17:23 <\oren\> hehe it works
19:18:15 <\oren\> http://orenwatson.be/evil"file.htm
19:19:46 <rdococ> what an evil file
19:20:12 <rdococ> wait, I'm pretty sure " isn't an allowed character in file names
19:20:17 <zzo38> That isn't going to work, putting in the HTML code like that. You can use % encodings instead to link inside of a HTML though
19:20:19 <rdococ> or is that why it's evil?
19:20:32 <rdococ> OH oh oh
19:20:33 <rdococ> nvm
19:20:35 <rdococ> I'm stupid
19:20:37 <\oren\> rdococ: " is legal in file names, just not in urls or somehting
19:21:23 <rdococ> ohh
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19:21:41 <rdococ> in HTML tags, attributes with string values are delimited by " I believe
19:22:40 <\oren\> rdococ: yes, the autohtm script doesn't work for this url
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19:23:33 <\oren\> i'll try to avoid " in file names other than that one
19:25:56 <rdococ> k
19:27:17 <\oren\> the only character actually forbidden in file names is / iirc
19:27:48 <\oren\> you can even have a file named '<CTCP>'
19:28:25 <\oren\> or a file named ''
19:28:40 <shachaf> \oren\: stop it
19:28:53 <shachaf> this is really annoying to several people, as you know
19:30:09 <\oren\> awwww
19:31:27 <rdococ> oh
19:31:37 <rdococ> ok
19:31:53 <rdococ> still thinking about peanuts
19:32:07 <rdococ> what about some allergy instruction
19:36:49 <\oren\> hmm, what if I modified nano to support the use of fraktur and blackboard bold for syntax highlighting?
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19:44:09 <\oren\> actually, i guess a more general feature would be "enhanced display", whereby you could set some s///g type commands to be run on the file as it is displayed onscreen
19:46:08 <\oren\> so if the file for example has "x -> y" you could set a rule for that to be displayed as "x → y"
19:46:35 <rdococ> I believe old versions of Squeak/Smalltalk had _ display as →
19:46:52 <rdococ> but I think it was a font, not an actual substitution
19:47:58 <\oren\> s/<=/≤/g
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19:48:47 <int-e> `'
19:48:56 <HackEgo> 1210) <ais523_> Funge-98 has half the advantages of a nomic
19:49:06 <int-e> `"
19:49:08 <\oren\> s/\alpha/α/g
19:49:10 <HackEgo> 381) <fungot> elliott: i have yet to demonstrate that the sml community has less productive power than the real chunk of meat. \ 416) <monqy> itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him.
19:49:36 <int-e> somehow, I'm not surprised
19:49:44 <\oren\> `"
19:49:47 <HackEgo> 387) <augur> ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently <Phantom_Hoover> So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
19:49:50 <int-e> `culprits bin/"
19:50:25 <HackEgo> No output.
19:50:34 <int-e> `culprits bin/\"
19:50:47 -!- `^_^v has joined.
19:50:50 <HackEgo> No output.
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19:51:44 <int-e> <shachaf> mkx bin/"//quote; quote
19:51:45 <\oren\> and of course one would want a[3] to display as a₃
19:52:58 <\oren\> and pow(x,3) to display as x³
19:53:19 <rdococ> →_→
19:53:40 <\oren\> because why not make C look incredibly elite
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19:53:55 <rdococ> this is why I prefer the ^ syntaxx
19:53:59 <rdococ> syntax*
19:54:05 <rdococ> x^3
19:54:17 <rdococ> it's like x*3 is to 3x
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19:54:54 <\oren\> nah, for c we would want x^3 to show as x⊕3
19:55:22 <rdococ> ?
19:55:40 <rdococ> I meant in languages where ^ is exponentiation like it's meant to be
19:55:48 <\oren\> oh, yah
19:55:55 <\oren\> also M_PI would be π
19:56:11 <int-e> @metar lowi
19:56:12 <lambdabot> LOWI 061950Z 26004KT 9999 FEW040 M12/M14 Q1036 R08/19//95 NOSIG
19:57:21 <int-e> cold, first time below -10°C this winter, I believe
19:57:26 <\oren\> and M_E as ℇ
19:57:36 <int-e> eww.
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19:58:54 <int-e> that's such an ugly glyph.
19:58:54 <APic> wb ais523
19:59:24 <\oren\> int-e: not in my font it isnt
19:59:27 <int-e>
19:59:54 <\oren\> and hey why not go whole hog and make int show as ℤ, float as ℚ and double as ℚℚ
20:00:24 <\oren\> oh and unsigned as ℕ of course
20:00:32 <rdococ> ℚ^2
20:00:53 <rdococ> or would that be complex floats?
20:01:17 <\oren\>
20:01:30 <rdococ> anyway float can only represent an infinitesimal subset of ℚ
20:01:53 <\oren\> true
20:02:05 <rdococ> similarly with double
20:02:35 <rdococ> tho there are numbers that double can represent that float can't, none of them can represent 1/3, just a finite binary approximation.
20:03:23 <rdococ> actually, I wonder what binary encoded base 6 would be
20:03:55 <\oren\> well, it would be octal but 6 and 7 are forbidden
20:04:12 <rdococ> it'd be more complicated than that...
20:04:22 <\oren\> and you carry at 5 and multiply by 6 ans=d such
20:04:36 <rdococ> but you'd be able to represent 1/3 succinctly.
20:04:39 <rdococ> 0.2.
20:05:05 <rdococ> 1/4 is 0.13.
20:05:10 <\oren\> I once made a set of bignum functions that used base 255
20:05:23 <rdococ> base 255?
20:05:40 <\oren\> rdococ: yes. stored in an asciz string
20:05:44 <rdococ> okay
20:06:02 <\oren\> so 1 is 0, 2 is 1, etc. and 0 is the end of the number
20:06:04 <rdococ> wouldn't that be base 256?
20:06:10 <rdococ> oh
20:06:58 <\oren\> 255 has factors 5, 3 and 17
20:07:41 <rdococ> but not 2
20:07:50 <\oren\> yeh
20:09:51 <\oren\> huh. 65535 has factors 3, 5, 17, and 257
20:10:03 <\oren\> i sense a pattern
20:10:34 <\oren\> do u
20:10:35 <rdococ> huheh
20:10:40 <rdococ> yepe
20:11:13 <\oren\> 4294967295 = 3×5×17×257×65537
20:13:07 <\oren\> in general 2^(x*2)-1 = (2^x-1)*(2^x+1)
20:13:16 <\oren\> oh. well, duh.
20:15:08 <int-e> 2^64-1 = 3*5*17*641*65537*6700417
20:17:13 <APic> Good old BSD-Game /usr/bin/factor ☺
20:17:23 <APic> Uh, no
20:17:28 <APic> Seems to be Part of coreutils
20:17:38 <APic> „primes“ was the BSD-Game
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20:30:57 <moony> EEP BOOP BOP
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20:38:02 <rdococ> beep boop BEEP
20:38:47 <rdococ> what about a language that is the OPPOSITE of haskell
20:38:55 <rdococ> oh wait that's c
20:39:10 <rdococ> but
20:39:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:39:27 <Taneb> Cohaskell: Haskell but with all the arrows reversed
20:41:08 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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20:42:39 <otherbot> hi, i am a robot.
20:42:46 <otherbot> `? otherbot
20:42:55 <HackEgo> otherbot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:43:00 <otherbot> `? D:
20:43:03 <HackEgo> D:? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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20:46:42 <\oren\> D: is the compact disk drive
20:48:33 <rdococ> D:
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20:50:03 <rdococ> :D
20:50:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
20:51:27 <\oren\> XD DX ;C C;
20:53:31 <\oren\> Ɑ:
20:53:50 <\oren\> a:
20:54:28 <APic> 8==D
20:54:53 <APic> otherbot: /join #botters
20:57:51 <rdococ> 8==>
20:59:16 <rdococ> bored
21:00:01 <myname> is the s or the c silent in "scent"?
21:03:25 -!- calamari has joined.
21:03:34 <calamari> hi
21:03:34 <\oren\> myname: both
21:04:03 <myname> that doesn't make sense?
21:05:08 <\oren\> they form a digraph
21:05:20 <\oren\> sc -> /s/
21:07:47 <\oren\> like in descend
21:14:50 <rdococ> urgh
21:16:13 <rdococ> how do I twist the idea of an untyped lambda calculus to the point it's nearly impossible to program in
21:16:30 <rdococ> wait
21:16:33 <rdococ> I have an idea
21:19:51 <calamari> I've been playing around with computation I can accomplish using a single, fixed (but arbitrarily long) closed-form expression. I can do branching (albeit with discontinuities), because I can simulate 2/3rds of a sign function as sqrt(x^2)/x and then manipulate that into a multiplication by 1 or 0. Obviously no memory tape, but there can be multiple inputs and a single output. This got me wondering: where does a closed-form
21:19:51 <calamari> expression fit as far as computational class?
21:29:58 <int-e> it really depends on what you allow in a "closed formula". http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeFormulas.html has "closed formylas" for the n-th prime, (13) and (14).
21:32:28 <int-e> (and those ideas should extend to primitive recursive functions, I think)
21:36:36 <rdococ> nvm
21:36:59 <rdococ> wait
21:37:00 <rdococ> mvn
21:39:41 <rdococ> wait
21:39:41 <rdococ> nvm
21:39:52 <rdococ> urgh
21:39:54 <rdococ> no ideas?
21:45:13 <int-e> <rdococ> I have an idea <rdococ> no ideas?
21:45:37 <rdococ> you forgot the <rdococ> nvm in the middle
21:46:26 <rdococ> just reinventing untyped lambda calculus is not esoteric...
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21:52:29 <calamari> int-e, I was going based on this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-form_expression#Comparison_of_different_classes_of_expressions
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22:01:10 <calamari> it's interesting to me though, because of the aforementioned conditionals, and also of course parenthesis provide a primitive form of control flow.
22:04:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:05:24 <calamari> hmm, actually Wikipedia may have answered it for me and I missed it: "Problems are said to be tractable if they can be solved in terms of a closed-form expression."
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23:13:10 <rdococ> holle
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23:18:53 <rdococ> heole
23:24:52 <rdococ> .. .
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23:47:24 <Taneb> ARM explicitly do not allow you to demonstrate programming proficiency in an interview situation using Befunge
23:47:27 <Taneb> http://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_arm/external/jobDetails.do?functionName=getJobDetail&jobPostId=28633&localeCode=en-us&source=Indeed.com&sourceType=PREMIUM_POST_SITE
23:47:32 <Taneb> "Be able to demonstrate in an interview situation a basic capability to code without an IDE or Internet connection, in a programming language such as Python, Java, C, C++, Go, Ruby, Perl or within reason, anything else of your choice (no Befunge though)."
23:48:54 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, are you going to work at ARM?
23:49:29 <Taneb> Unlikely
23:49:55 <shachaf> The "though" suggests that Befunge is "within reason".
23:50:54 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:01:22 <boily> Tanelle, hellochaf, hellørjan.
00:01:29 <boily> explicitely no befunge???
00:01:38 <shachaf> is that really necessary?
00:01:40 <\oren\> then, sclipting is ok
00:01:53 <shachaf> scrap
00:01:55 -!- shachaf has left.
00:03:28 <\oren\> or REGXY
00:04:06 <\oren\> or the ever popular INTERCAL
00:08:03 <boily> are REPLs accepted?
00:17:12 <oerjan> helloily.
00:19:38 * oerjan wonders what shachaf got annoyed at
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00:30:02 <boily> @tell shachaf hellochaf. leaving #esoteric is no sportsmanlike hth
00:30:02 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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00:32:41 <boily> `wisdom
00:32:49 <HackEgo> cake//The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
00:37:39 <Phantom_Hoover> 2007 called and wants its memes back
00:42:44 <oerjan> we'll get around to that as soon as ais523 invents feather
00:53:49 <\oren\> guten abend
00:54:41 <oerjan> god aften
00:56:09 <\oren\> so it took me 50 minutes or so to get home? that's fairly good for the ttc
00:56:52 <\oren\> `? ttc
00:57:08 <HackEgo> ttc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:57:45 <olsner> transport tycoon something?
00:58:04 <boily> I wouldn't even call it "transport"... it's arguably even worse than the STM.
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00:59:14 <\oren\> `le/rn TTC//The TTC is the terrible transit commission. Sometimes their streetcars move faster than walking pace.
00:59:28 <HackEgo> Learned 'ttc': The TTC is the terrible transit commission. Sometimes their streetcars move faster than walking pace.
00:59:46 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> especially if the poor fool writing the comment tried to use * to denote multiplication <-- why don't people check their own messages...
01:00:44 * oerjan would have been confused if he didn't know where \oren\ is from
01:01:01 <boily> \oren\ confuses multiplications???
01:01:09 <olsner> from the city of Terrible, clearly
01:01:19 <oerjan> what olsner said.
01:01:32 <boily> hellolsner!
01:02:21 <olsner> hejly
01:02:39 * oerjan grins evilly
01:03:40 <\oren\> boily: no, markdown causes * to screw up
01:06:37 <boily> . o O ( if I act boily, is it boilyly? )
01:06:53 <boily> \oren\: obviously.
01:07:02 <olsner> maybe you're already an adverb
01:07:12 <oerjan> `? boily
01:07:16 <HackEgo> ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:07:44 <oerjan> `slwd boily//s/man/adverb/
01:07:48 <HackEgo> boily//"Only sane adverb" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:08:00 * oerjan grins evilly again
01:08:40 <oerjan> i cannot remove your sanity, but i can remove your word class
01:13:20 <boily> my sanity is pure!
01:14:39 <oerjan> do you floss it regularly
01:17:20 <boily> >_>'... uh... <_<;...
01:21:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:Code-golf.png]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50686&oldid=50685 * Enoua5 * (+100)
01:30:34 <Guest46704> boily, `? moon
01:30:34 -!- Guest46704 has changed nick to moonythedwarf.
01:30:34 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to moony.
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01:30:38 <oerjan> `file bin/"
01:30:49 <HackEgo> bin/": ASCII text
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01:30:54 <oerjan> `cat bin/"
01:30:57 <HackEgo> quote; quote
01:31:02 <oerjan> `culprits bin/"
01:31:13 -!- Guest46704 has changed nick to moonythedwarf.
01:31:17 <HackEgo> shachäf
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01:31:35 <moonythedwarf> boily, `? moon
01:31:40 <olsner> boily: maybe you need to make an appointment with your mental hygienist
01:32:01 <oerjan> why did that command fail...
01:32:10 <oerjan> `dowg bin/"
01:32:30 <HackEgo> No output.
01:32:41 <oerjan> `dowg bin/culprits
01:32:41 <boily> `dowg bin/¨
01:32:53 <boily> mhelloony!
01:32:58 <HackEgo> No output.
01:33:00 <HackEgo> No output.
01:33:04 <oerjan> huh
01:33:11 <oerjan> `dowg bin/culprits
01:33:17 <HackEgo> No output.
01:33:17 <oerjan> oh
01:33:24 <oerjan> `doag bin/culprits
01:33:31 <HackEgo> 9215:2016-10-10 <oerjän> sled bin/culprits//s/sed.*/xargs/ \ 8624:2016-06-27 <oerjän> mkx bin/culprits//hoag "$@" | awk \'{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}\' | sed "s/.$/\\x0F&/" | xargs \ 7930:2016-05-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` mv bin/culprits bin/culprits2; mv bin/innocent bin/culprits \ 7928:2016-05-07 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` mv bin/culprits2 bin/cu
01:33:49 <oerjan> `doag bin/"
01:33:54 <HackEgo> 8567:2016-06-22 <shachäf> mkx bin/"//quote; quote
01:34:01 <moonythedwarf> `? moon :)
01:34:13 <HackEgo> moon :)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:34:17 <oerjan> it must have just timed out for int-e then
01:34:18 <moonythedwarf> `? moon
01:34:21 <HackEgo> moon is often named the following: moonythedwarf moonythehuman moonheart08 moony moon__ computing and luxon, making porthellos and @tells a real pain
01:36:42 <oerjan> `quote 1146
01:36:44 <HackEgo> 1146) <zzo38> Despite the various chess variants (even Chess 2), even ordinary FIDE chess is a fine playable game. But so can others be!
01:36:50 <oerjan> `quote 1145
01:36:51 <HackEgo> 1145) <fizzie> "Emoticons are dropped when crafting trading cards and are tradable."
01:36:54 <oerjan> `quote 1144
01:36:55 <HackEgo> 1144) <ion> Homeopathic encryption: add 9 parts NULs to 1 part of data, shake well into three directions, repeat the process 30 to 100 times.
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01:37:14 <oerjan> `quote 1158
01:37:14 <HackEgo> 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
01:37:33 <oerjan> `quote OKAY
01:37:41 <HackEgo> 83) <fax> okay I see it now, quines do exist \ 237) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" \ 562) <monqy> bad people have feelings too <monqy> but they're bad <monqy> so it's okay \
01:37:59 <oerjan> `` allquotes | grep OKAY
01:38:02 <HackEgo> 1137) <oerjan> OKAY \ 1158) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY
01:39:45 <oerjan> `5
01:39:55 <HackEgo> 1/2:1205) <adu> me thinks fungot is high on crack <fungot> adu: not exactly something like that. but even real scheme :p. \ 1238) <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? \ 253) <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same
01:40:01 <oerjan> `n
01:40:01 <HackEgo> 2/2: name!!! \ 1121) <boily> everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. \ 688) <fizzie> fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. <fungot> fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used
01:42:06 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
01:42:07 <lambdabot> ENVA 070050Z 26019KT 7000 FEW019 BKN031 OVC053 03/01 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 27019KT
01:42:10 <oerjan> RAINY
01:45:53 <boily> @metar CYUL
01:45:54 <lambdabot> CYUL 070100Z 00000KT 15SM SKC M11/M14 A3020 RMK SLP232
01:46:03 <boily> SKC? unpossible!
01:46:14 <boily> it never skces here.
01:46:24 <oerjan> <\oren\> i sense a pattern <-- (x-1)(x^(n-1) + x^(n-2) + ... + 1) = x^n - 1 hth
01:46:59 <oerjan> what's skc
01:47:52 <boily> SKy Clear.
01:48:15 <oerjan> next you'll be claiming to spot the Daystar
01:50:02 <boily> there's something shiny in the sky, but I think it's moonier than that.
01:50:19 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: are you mooning boily again
01:52:16 <oerjan> \oren\: also a-b divides a^n-b^n similarly, or you can see it trivially with modulus arithmetic
01:56:22 <oerjan> calamari: yo
01:58:05 <boily> http://www.lasrecetasfacilesdemaria.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Calamares-a-la-Andaluza-con-Truqui-2.jpg
02:23:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
02:27:23 <hppavilion[1]> I'm baaaaa-aaaack
02:27:27 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-lud
02:27:28 <lambdabot> rdococ said 1d 7h 17m 2s ago: you still working on that peano language?
02:28:25 <boily> hppaaaaaaaavellon[1].
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02:31:57 <hppavilion[1]> ...
02:32:03 <hppavilion[1]> Good to see boily hasn't changed
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04:03:45 <hppavilion1> `unidecode 〈
04:03:48 <HackEgo> ​[U+3008 LEFT ANGLE BRACKET]
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05:24:56 <zzo38> To add to support music in the terminal emulator, a new number for DECSET and DECRST can be added to enable/disable music. When music is enabled, the DL command has no default, because that would interfere with the music.
05:26:17 <hppavilion1> Is there a good capital of ɦ?
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06:48:08 <newsham> anyone have time for an LC evaluation question? http://lpaste.net/350957
06:49:57 <newsham> aiming for "normal order" reduction with "left-most, outter-most redex first". which "always finds a normalising reduction, if one exists"
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07:06:31 <Perenelle> Boi
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07:43:40 <moonythedwarf> hia
07:46:48 <hppavilion1> moonythedwarf: BIA
07:46:53 <hppavilion1> :P
07:47:17 <hppavilion1> Don'ta leta the doora hita youa in the assa on the waya outa /s
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08:06:03 <zzo38> There is at least two problems with the existing Node.js SDL bindings. One is that the documentation isn't very good (but least there is some). The other is what I will quote: "And because the bindings handle destroying SDL objects when the wrapping object gets destructed, that means the window will disappear, seemingly randomly. Make sure you keep a reference to all objects you want to persist somewhere, or you might find your window disappearing
08:07:57 <zzo38> It shouldn't do that for windows! Destroying the SDL objects like that will make sense in many cases (such as off-screen surfaces), but for windows that are visible on the screen (and also for audio that is currently playing) it should not do that.
08:08:59 <zzo38> For those reasons, and also because theirs is SDL2 and mine is SDL1, I have started making my own Node.js library for SDL binding.
08:11:30 <zzo38> Is this documentation good so far? https://www.npmjs.com/package/sdlterm Also you can tell me what feature seems missing, too. (I have partially written the code to handle non-MML sound effects, but it is not complete; I will also add support for background music.)
08:13:58 <zzo38> (I already noticed a few mistakes in the documentation which I have fixed.)
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08:36:43 <zzo38> Do you like this?
08:48:04 <ais523> hmm, what's the smallest generalization of Collatz that's TC?
08:48:22 <ais523> you can generalize it into something close to Fractran, which is clearly TC, but there might be a smaller generalizatoin
08:48:57 <ais523> zzo38: I'm not sure if there's much point in writing bindings to SDL1 at this point, because SDL1's driver-like functionality is unlikely to be updated for new hardware
08:56:31 <zzo38> Perhaps it is the case, although I happen to like SDL1. Also I think SDL2 does not blit 8-bit surfaces in the same way either, and does text input differently.
08:57:03 <zzo38> Although SDL1 is still exist and so someone may still to add the improvement if needed, to work with existing SDL1 software too.
08:59:57 <zzo38> (I also do not have SDL2 in my computer)
09:00:29 <zzo38> But, this program is public domain and if you want to try to work it with SDL2 as well then you can try.
09:02:20 <zzo38> To convert X mouse cursor shapes into a format usable by SDL, I have written the program: http://sprunge.us/IiKI
09:03:06 <zzo38> It works perfectly as far as I can tell, but does require a X server to be able to do the conversion.
09:04:43 <zzo38> But I don't know why XGetSubImage needs to specify the format, which is already specified in the XImage structure.
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09:55:00 <pledis> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU3toSwmb-g this is amazing
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11:28:17 <rdococ> seotreic
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12:33:41 <rdococ> estoierc
12:34:03 * rdococ waits for someone to tlak
12:38:21 <rdococ> for all in (usernames, i) { i.saySomething() }
12:40:27 <rdococ> while (true) { for all in (usernames, i) { i.saySomething() } }
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12:53:05 <sdhand> Something
13:15:21 <myname> esote-irc
13:17:58 <rdococ> lol
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13:45:53 <rdococ> esoteirc
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13:57:47 <rdococ> hppavilion1 yay
14:05:01 <doesthiswork> I couldn't remember my quaternonial multiplication tables yesterday, so I started playing around with 4x4 matricies. The matricies I ended up with look just like the result of partially applying a single argument to the multiplication table.
14:05:13 <doesthiswork> so now I'm thinking about multidimensional matricies
14:06:12 <doesthiswork> (dual doesn't count as multi)
14:14:54 -!- boily has joined.
14:21:38 <izabera> i just deleted hours of work by mistake and i didn't commit the changes in git yet
14:22:11 <izabera> extundelete can't find the file
14:22:20 <izabera> ;-;
14:24:54 <boily> izabellora. :(
14:40:32 -!- lynn has joined.
14:53:15 <boily> "Conf Agi Tree MR/2 Ambros Contam Invis". I feel effectful.
15:00:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Interstar * New user account
15:08:17 <tswett> I'm reading the manual for the Intel 8008 processor.
15:09:08 <tswett> Neat little thing. Uses 8-bit words everywhere.
15:09:20 -!- al1tk has joined.
15:09:23 <tswett> Memory addresses are 14 bits.
15:09:59 <tswett> It's pretty obvious how you'd extend that to 16 bits. The only reason addresses are 14 bits is that the actual physical chip only has however many address pins.
15:10:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50687&oldid=50654 * Interstar * (+288) /* Introductions */
15:10:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50688&oldid=50636 * Interstar * (+12) /* Q */
15:11:00 -!- al1tk has left.
15:12:10 <tswett> It has 7 registers, each 8 bits. They're called A, B, C, D, E, H, and L.
15:12:54 <tswett> A is the accumulator register. Most arithmetic and logical opcodes implicitly use A as both the destination and one of the sources.
15:13:19 <tswett> Most opcodes behave as though there were an eighth register, M. M is *(H << 8 + L).
15:15:54 <tswett> Oddly enough, there's a one-byte instruction for incrementing any register *except* the A register.
15:16:17 <tswett> Incrementing or decrementing.
15:16:36 <tswett> If you want to increment or decrement the A register, you have to use an add-immediate or subtract-immediate instruction, which is 2 bytes.
15:17:00 <boily> M, as in Middle between High and Low?
15:17:07 <tswett> No, as in Memory.
15:17:28 <boily> oh. retrobviously.
15:18:50 <tswett> The registers feel pretty cramped. There's only enough room to store 3 memory addresses at a time.
15:22:19 <tswett> But I guess you can always spill over into memory.
15:28:00 <tswett> There are no bitwise logic operators. Only logical logic.
15:28:20 <tswett> Oh, and there's no multiplication, either.
15:29:22 <rdococ> ih
15:31:32 <boily> rdochello.
15:31:37 <boily> tswett: wut?
15:31:46 <tswett> boily: what wut?
15:31:49 <rdococ> hoily.
15:32:04 <rdococ> what wut wut
15:32:21 <rdococ> wut what wut wait, what?
15:32:34 <boily> tswett: no multiplication.
15:33:05 <tswett> `run ls -d emo*
15:33:12 <rdococ> tmultiplication: no swett.
15:33:29 <HackEgo> emoticons
15:33:34 <tswett> `ls emoticons
15:33:39 <HackEgo> cat \ :-D \ drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ swatter \ useless
15:33:46 <tswett> `cat emoticons/shrug
15:33:48 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:33:55 <tswett> boily: ​¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:34:03 <rdococ> ouo . o O ( I am an emoticon, yay )
15:34:45 <tswett> Oh, by the way.
15:34:59 <tswett> The 8008 also has a built-in call stack.
15:35:18 <tswett> It holds 7 addresses. Pushing another address means the oldest one is lost.
15:35:32 <tswett> Also, the only way to access the call stack is by using the call and return instructions.
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15:40:55 <oerjan> argh tunes slow
15:43:42 <Taneb> Helloerjan
15:44:32 <rdococ> tanebbo
15:44:40 <rdococ> s/bb/lll
15:44:43 <rdococ> s/lll/ll
15:45:11 <sdhand> `cat emoticons/useless
15:45:16 <tswett> /lll/ll//bb/lll/tanebbo
15:45:17 <HackEgo> ​オラオラオラ(三・o・)三☆三(`ε´三)無駄無駄無駄無駄
15:45:25 * sdhand stares in boxes
15:47:22 <oerjan> tafternooneb
15:49:58 <\oren\> `ls emoticons
15:50:02 <HackEgo> cat \ :-D \ drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ swatter \ useless
15:50:25 <tswett> `cat emoticons/cat
15:50:27 <HackEgo> Meow~~ >^.^<
15:50:31 <oerjan> newsham: ping
15:51:09 <tswett> `run echo '¯\_(ツ)_/¯' > emoticons/shrug2
15:51:17 <HackEgo> No output.
15:51:37 <tswett> `cat emoticons/drowning
15:51:39 <HackEgo> lol
15:51:45 <tswett> Yeah, that's what I was expecting.
15:52:13 <boily> rdococ: it is customary to porthello Taneb in the vocative case. Tanelle hth
15:53:37 <oerjan> @tell newsham do the lazyeval(e1) _before_ branching on whether the result is ABSTR, and don't recurse on lazyEval(Apply(e1, e2))
15:53:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
15:53:45 <oerjan> @tell newsham if it isn't.
15:53:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
15:53:57 <oerjan> stupid end-of-line copying
15:54:28 <oerjan> actually the second message is redundant
15:55:41 <\oren\> `cat emoticons/kyaa
15:55:42 <HackEgo> ​(≧∇≦)/
15:55:56 <tswett> So I'm kind of mulling over the idea of writing a "retro-style game system" that uses the 8008 as its CPU architecture.
15:56:05 <tswett> `run cat emoticons/*
15:56:07 <HackEgo> Meow~~ >^.^< \ ☺ \ lol \ 凸 \ ガ~(゚ロ゚;)~ン \ (°Д°) \ (≧∇≦)/ \ ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ \ ーー蟲蟲 \ オラオラオラ(三・o・)三☆三(`ε´三)無駄無駄無駄無駄
15:57:06 <FireFly> tswett: hmm, do you know about Arne's similar projects? https://androidarts.com/palette/Famicube.htm https://androidarts.com/Amiga/MSX.htm https://androidarts.com/Amiga/SBC.htm
15:57:42 <tswett> I meant an emulator, actually.
15:57:53 <FireFly> nod
15:58:53 <oerjan> boily: maybe rdococ thinks Taneb is a Czech woman
15:59:04 <Taneb> It's not inconcievable
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16:01:12 <tswett> So I'm pond'rin' what I should do about the limitations of the 8008.
16:01:36 <tswett> No bitwise logic, or multiplication, division, any of that fun stuff.
16:02:03 <boily> tswett: use a bunch of them in parallel as coprocessors?
16:02:17 <boily> `? Taneb
16:02:21 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
16:02:38 <Taneb> `people who taneb is not
16:02:39 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: people: not found
16:02:43 <Taneb> `? people who taneb is not
16:02:44 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond. Pending approval: Shigeru Miyamoto.
16:02:44 <boily> `slwd Taneb//s/genders,/genders, one of which is a Czech woman,/
16:02:45 <HackEgo> Roswbud!
16:02:51 <oerjan> boily: apparently polish also works, might be more plausible in this channel
16:02:54 <tswett> No computed jumps. If you have a memory address in registers H and L, and you want to jump to that address, you have to do it by writing that address to a jump instruction that you have lying around in memory somewhere.
16:03:05 <oerjan> see e.g. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ewa
16:03:07 <boily> Roswbud?
16:03:24 <oerjan> boily: wisdoms are lower case
16:03:28 <boily> oh.
16:03:32 <boily> `slwd taneb//s/genders,/genders, one of which is a Czech woman,/
16:03:34 <HackEgo> taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions
16:04:18 <oerjan> `? taneb
16:04:21 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
16:04:48 <boily> I think Taneb is now the wisdomest of them all.
16:04:51 <boily> `? oerjan
16:04:52 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
16:04:53 <boily> `? boily
16:04:54 <HackEgo> ​"Only sane adverb" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:05:18 <oerjan> well, since he overflows it...
16:05:49 <oerjan> `slwd taneb//s/he has/has/
16:05:51 <HackEgo> taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
16:05:55 <tswett> I'm thinkin' that I want to work around the 8008's limitations by doing some memory-mapping goodness.
16:06:05 <oerjan> is that too dodgy grammar?
16:07:05 <boily> `le/rn boily//“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:07:07 <HackEgo> Relearned 'boily': “Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:07:28 <tswett> The real-life 8008 has an address space of 16 K. I can divide that into 4 pages of 4 K each. Then I can initially have one page for ROM, one for RAM, and one for the Special Magical Mapped Memory Area (SMMMA).
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16:07:50 <tswett> There can be a region in the SMMMA for the call stack. Boom, now it's accessible.
16:08:12 <tswett> Another region in the SMMMA that contains stuff like A * B and A ^ B. Boom, now you can do bitwise stuff and multiplication.
16:08:22 * rdococ boron
16:09:35 <boily> `? rdococ
16:09:36 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
16:09:42 <tswett> `? boron
16:09:43 <HackEgo> boron? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:09:50 <boily> rdococ: :D
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16:10:11 <rdococ> borons are the particles of capitalism
16:10:15 <rdococ> `? rdococ
16:10:16 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
16:12:07 <oerjan> `before
16:12:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/boily//"Only sane adverb" boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
16:12:15 <oerjan> aha
16:12:39 <boily> eh?
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16:12:45 <rdococ> I'm bored, and I want to create something esoteric. any ideas?
16:13:20 <rdococ> maluntypedlambdacalculusbolge would just be ridiculous...
16:14:05 <oerjan> boily: just checking what you changed, since you wilely didn't use `slwd
16:14:34 <oerjan> ridiculous can also be esoteric.
16:14:44 <rdococ> I was thinking that
16:15:12 <rdococ> wonder if I could implement higher order functions with GOTO and RETURN only...
16:15:13 <oerjan> `cat bin/slwd
16:15:14 <HackEgo> cd wisdom; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
16:15:27 <rdococ> RETURN being an instruction that returns to the last GOTO executed
16:15:32 <oerjan> `cat bin/?
16:15:32 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
16:16:04 <oerjan> hm that's just not going to work.
16:16:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QaSaC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50689 * Interstar * (+5260) Created page with "QaSaC ("Queues and Stacks and Combinators", the elements from which the language is built) is a cross between a stack-based [[ConcatenativeLanguage]] like [[Forth]] and [[Joy]..."
16:16:52 * oerjan considered making it lowercase automatically, but the separation of key and content is done by sled
16:17:24 <rdococ> of course, I cooould use an encryption
16:17:52 <rdococ> (or femalbolge)
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16:24:54 * oerjan eats his second last nutella ball
16:26:06 <fizzie> The other day I bought a chocolate orange.
16:26:13 <fizzie> It's apparently a thing here in the UK.
16:26:15 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry's_Chocolate_Orange
16:26:33 <Phantom_Hoover> why are you in the uk
16:26:53 <Phantom_Hoover> also yeah, i never did find out who terry is
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16:27:15 <fizzie> I guess mostly because I was offered a job here.
16:27:35 <oerjan> fancy
16:27:44 <fizzie> (This isn't really news, I've been here for the last two years.)
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16:28:30 <fizzie> "At one time it was estimated that the Chocolate Orange was found in a tenth of British Christmas stockings."
16:28:34 <fizzie> Interesting benchmark.
16:30:19 <rdococ> mmm chocolate oranges?
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16:31:55 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, where in the uk are you
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16:33:17 <oerjan> fizzie: oh and they shrunk it like the toblerone did...
16:33:42 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: London. You asked me this same question in May 2016.
16:33:58 <oerjan> fizzie remembers all, with the power of science
16:34:03 <Phantom_Hoover> i forgot because it's such a boring answer!
16:34:06 <fizzie> The power of grep in this case.
16:34:08 <fizzie> But that's fair.
16:35:16 <oerjan> grep is science qed
16:36:48 <Taneb> I'm getting closer to having finished at York :(
16:37:09 <Taneb> Then I will have to figure out a new place to be
16:37:49 * oerjan finds today's mezzacotta strangely amusing. must be the chocolate ball.
16:48:51 <tswett> I want a chocolate orange.
16:50:11 <tswett> So I'm pondering computed gotos and the call stack and whatnot.
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16:52:01 <tswett> Like...
16:52:14 <tswett> You could memory-map the instruction pointer. The only problem with that is that it doesn't work.
16:52:34 <tswett> The instruction pointer is two bytes, and you can only write one byte at a time.
16:53:04 <tswett> So if you try to write two bytes to the instruction pointer, then you'll write one, but before you can write the other you'll find yourself having forgotten what you were doing.
16:54:42 <oerjan> that sounds like a challenge
16:55:42 <tswett> Now, it's not difficult to just reserve a location in RAM to use as your indirect jump thing.
16:56:15 <tswett> I'm trying to find holes in the instruction set, here. It's pretty tightly packed.
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17:01:11 <tswett> Instructions of the form 001xx010 don't seem to have a defined meaning.
17:03:36 <tswett> The expected meaning of 00111000 would be "increment memory location", but it's actually undefined. Likewise, 00111001 would be "decrement memory location" but it's undefined.
17:05:25 <rdococ> ih
17:08:36 <tswett> Yeah, those are the gaps.
17:08:52 <tswett> Of course, in the actual 8008, those must have done *something*.
17:09:11 <rdococ> 8008 lol
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17:12:43 <rdococ> Gueetings17215
17:14:38 -!- Guest17215 has changed nick to moony.
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17:15:01 <moony> meeep
17:15:04 <rdococ> beeeep
17:15:13 <moony> meeeeep
17:15:22 <rdococ> mooooooooooop
17:15:54 <moony> im (re) installing BYOND
17:16:12 <moony> so i cna play urist mcstation (a bay12forums SS13 game)
17:16:49 <rdococ> merp
17:16:53 <rdococ> merpy derpy
17:18:02 * moony derps a derpy derped derp and runs from the derped derpy derped derp implosion of derped derpyness before derping the derp award for most derped derpy derped derps in a derpy derped sentence
17:18:06 <tswett> Maybe I should base this stuff on the 8080 instead.
17:19:16 * rdococ something something derp
17:26:54 * oerjan derp -----###
17:27:49 <oerjan> `? derp
17:27:52 <HackEgo> derp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:29:11 <oerjan> `le/rn derp//"Derp" (d.): to derp a derpy derp, thus derpily derping derpishly.
17:29:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'derp': "Derp" (d.): to derp a derpy derp, thus derpily derping derpishly.
17:53:33 <rdococ> derp
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18:02:10 <Zarutian> `? herp
18:02:11 <HackEgo> herp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:11:53 <rdococ> hole
18:34:06 <rdococ> so my current idea for "Peano" is literally untyped lambda calculus...
18:34:17 <rdococ> now how to make it untyped hambda crazyculus?
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18:56:08 <rdococ> true can be defined as λa.λb.a... or function true (function a, function b) { return a }... or true(a, b) := a...
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20:27:01 <newsham> oerjan: ty
20:27:34 <newsham> i ended up just making my func do a single redex each time, outtermost leftmost. and then iterating till convergence.
20:27:55 <newsham> and that worked well
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21:04:14 <zzo38> Is the way I implemented the communication of main thread and audio thread OK?
21:05:03 <int-e> `? zzo38
21:06:02 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
21:06:44 <int-e> zzo38: Your telepathic interface leaves to be desired, it cut out all the context from your question.
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21:08:24 <int-e> (I'm probably not even interested in the question, but I'm still annoyed by the incomleteness of information. And I'm even more peeved because I should be used to it by now, but it still gets me every single time.)
21:08:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50690&oldid=50687 * FTcode * (+208)
21:08:44 <zzo38> I have two volatile variables mml_cmd and sfx_cmd, which are unsigned char and are 0 to stop, 1 to play, and 2 to begin playing. The variables mml_next and sfx_next are not volatile, but maybe they should be? When playing a new sound effect it does: if(mml_cmd==2 || sfx_cmd==2) { SDL_LockAudio(); mml_cmd=0; sfx_cmd=0; SDL_UnlockAudio(); } mml_cmd=0; sfx_next=sounds+n; sfx_cmd=2;
21:08:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50691 * FTcode * (+3529) Created page with "'''Symbolic Python''' is a way of programming in Python 2 in which only non-alphanumeric characters are allowed in the source code. This was inspired by a challenge on the SE..."
21:09:15 <zzo38> Does sfx_next need to volatile too for it to work properly? Or is there something else wrong?
21:10:15 <zzo38> (Note that the audio thread never writes to sfx_next; it copies data into other variables and then uses those, and only reads sfx_next when sfx_cmd is 2)
21:11:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50692&oldid=50691 * FTcode * (-168)
21:12:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50693&oldid=50692 * FTcode * (+33)
21:13:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50694&oldid=50693 * FTcode * (+53) /* "H", World: */
21:14:03 <int-e> The least that having sfx_next not volatile does is that the writes sfx_next=sounds+n; sfx_cmd=2; can be reordered. It's hard to say whether the write to sfx_next must happen at all.
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21:17:30 <zzo38> Reordering them may cause problems. Probably I should make sfx_next to be volatile. Also in the audio thread it reads sfx_next before setting sfx_cmd=1 so that is the other reason that probably it should be volatile. But do you think what I am doing with locking is correct?
21:19:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50695&oldid=50694 * FTcode * (+410)
21:19:33 <int-e> I'm actually unsure what the memory model provided by C is here, I suspect this requires some explcit barriers.
21:24:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50696&oldid=50695 * FTcode * (+427)
21:24:05 <zzo38> Now I get a warning because memcpy is used to copy a volatile array mml_next into a non-volatile array mml_playing.
21:27:32 <zzo38> I am not sure what is the correct way to handle that; I don't know if it is actually a problem or not.
21:29:15 <zzo38> I could avoid using memcpy if that is necessary.
21:31:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Blablafuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50697&oldid=50634 * Ivancr72 * (+11) Fixed a bug.
21:36:09 <zzo38> And still I want to know about whether the locking is correct.
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21:48:16 <zzo38> I also have a variable mml_volume which is read by the audio thread and written by the main thread, but as far as I can tell it is unnecessary to set this variable as volatile, because a pointer to the audio callback function is previously passed to a SDL function, and SDL_WaitEvent is guaranteed to be called directly after mml_volume is written anyways, so it seems OK to me to not make that one volatile because the ordering is unnecessary.
21:53:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50698&oldid=50696 * FTcode * (+59) Added new example value
21:56:28 <int-e> the memcpy appears to be undefined behavior ("An attempt is made to refer to an object defined with a volatile-qualified type through")
21:56:33 <int-e> "...use of an lvalue with non-volatile-qualified type"
21:59:34 <int-e> . o O ( naptime! )
22:07:02 <zzo38> I did change it to use a for loop instead
22:07:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50699&oldid=50698 * FTcode * (+77) /* Example Implementation */
22:13:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50700&oldid=50699 * FTcode * (-6) fixed bug
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22:40:04 <\oren\> I got a new tv
22:40:34 <\oren\> unfortunately, I forgot to obtain a displayport-HDMI adapter
22:43:09 <Taneb> `? pointless topology
22:43:18 <HackEgo> pointless topology? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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23:31:21 <zzo38> How many of computer programs you will commonly (or nearly commonly) using are program you write by yourself?
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23:39:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50701&oldid=50700 * FTcode * (+702) Added new example
23:40:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50702&oldid=50701 * FTcode * (-13)
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01:21:36 <oerjan> tunes won't load :(
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01:30:24 <oerjan> finally
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02:15:02 <oerjan> `wisdom pointless
02:15:15 <HackEgo> That's not wise.
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02:49:29 <oerjan> `? topology
02:49:33 <HackEgo> Topology is another name for topos theory.
03:26:15 <doesthiswork> `? topos
03:26:18 <HackEgo> topos? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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03:37:46 <int-e> so topical
03:38:48 <int-e> snow, who needs snow, what is it good for...
03:38:50 <int-e> `? snow
03:38:51 <HackEgo> Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targeryan. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
03:40:10 <int-e> fizzie: HELP! fungot got lost!
03:40:28 <int-e> (lostgot?)
03:40:48 <oerjan> `slwd snow//s/erya/arye/
03:40:53 <HackEgo> snow//Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
03:41:14 <oerjan> i don't even watch it, and still i saw it was wrong. sheesh people...
03:41:51 <int-e> I don't remember names
03:42:05 <oerjan> `cwlprits snow
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03:42:16 <HackEgo> oerjän b_jonäs b_jonäs
03:42:54 <int-e> For example, the Sturmvoraus family was "Sturmv???" to me until I realized that the v??? parts is also a german word.
03:43:04 <int-e> s/parts/part/
03:43:04 <oerjan> heh
03:44:01 * oerjan notes that we haven't got grandmas last name. or first, iirc.
03:46:43 <int-e> Oh another addition to the Internet of blank pages (aka Web 3.0?) https://www.speakdotdot.com/ ... will wait for the wikipedia page. ("On Tuesday, ZigBee announced Dotdot, which it calls a universal language for IoT.")
03:47:19 <oerjan> another thing i noted: during beausoleil's betrayal rant he mentioned that van rijn "could transfer life from flesh to machine, and _back again_"
03:47:47 <int-e> hmm beausoleil
03:48:06 <oerjan> which sounds a lot like what we saw demonstrated in lucre[tz]ia's lab
03:48:07 <int-e> (thanks wiki)
03:48:21 <int-e> the Count ;-)
03:48:22 <oerjan> (see, even i don't remember _all_ the names)
03:48:46 <oerjan> oh he was a count?
03:48:56 <int-e> was?
03:49:02 <oerjan> *is
03:49:19 <int-e> I'm sure you've found http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Drusus_Beausoleil by now.
03:49:25 <oerjan> anyway, i suspect the other may have stolen his devices. and possibly those of many other sparks.
03:49:33 <oerjan> i'm not that fast.
03:50:00 <oerjan> especially when typing at the same time with lag
03:51:45 <int-e> So can minds be duplicated?
03:53:04 <oerjan> ...that was also demonstrated.
03:53:24 <int-e> (Hmm, an army of identical clones... let's have another look at those dancers?)
03:53:35 <oerjan> that's how zola got access to the other's memories.
03:54:05 <int-e> semi-rhetorical question
03:54:45 <int-e> nah, the dancers show signs of individuality
03:54:53 <oerjan> lucrezia _intended_ to just overwrite her mind, but zola claimed that would destroy her too.
03:55:10 <int-e> (skin color, mostly, because we've not really seen them up close)
03:56:28 <int-e> Zola also said something about research and preparation at the time, mmm. No, I'm not going to re-read it all just for that.
03:59:45 <oerjan> they'd got information from the treasonous geisterdame.
03:59:51 <int-e> Actually the Count with the many clanks also has potential for a twist: Maybe the real human one perished a long time ago.
04:00:13 <oerjan> i thought of that too
04:00:48 <oerjan> there might not be a "real" one
04:01:35 <oerjan> which might be why he's so interested in rijn's ability to transfer _back again_
04:02:43 <oerjan> also, since lucrezia has this technology, that makes it likely it's her people he's working for (although that was likely anyway)
04:03:25 <oerjan> (or zola's. i wonder if the anevka version is also around...)
04:04:00 <oerjan> i have this hunch that anevka would be suspicious of zola's current behavior...
04:04:19 <oerjan> (since lucrezia might not do things that way)
04:04:47 <oerjan> *lunevka, is the wiki term
04:06:56 <oerjan> although, gil's observation that there doesn't seem to be any "new" other technology might imply that only zola is around... presumably lucrezia cannot invent things while her mind is imprisoned.
04:07:06 <oerjan> *the other
04:07:12 <int-e> but wasn't lunevka playing nurse in mechanicsburg...
04:07:19 <oerjan> yes, they met.
04:07:30 <oerjan> but it's not a given they both got away...
04:07:54 <int-e> I'd expect Lunevka to stick around Klaus
04:08:07 <int-e> which means she ought to be stuck.
04:08:17 <oerjan> that's true. and the hospital was attacked, i recall.
04:08:20 <oerjan> no.
04:08:48 <int-e> but oh, he landed, right?
04:08:51 <oerjan> klaus left for wulfenbach castle. then he came back alone.
04:09:08 <int-e> so it's all unclear, fog of war
04:09:33 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure we haven't seen lunevka since the hospital.
04:10:37 <oerjan> otoh if my theory that the other stole much of her technology by using time travel is right, then she may simply be cut off from new inventions at the moment.
04:11:09 <oerjan> if she wasn't _really_ that brilliant herself.
04:12:20 <oerjan> although we don't know how lucrezia got set up as the other in the first place.
04:12:21 <int-e> so... any bets whether GG will end this year? :P
04:12:29 <oerjan> heh
04:12:51 <oerjan> i didn't have that feeling.
04:13:45 <oerjan> i vaguely recall there being some kind of old estimate for how long the story would take, but they'll probably always be tempted to add something more.
04:14:30 <int-e> Well, on the one hand there's a big convergence happening.
04:14:40 <int-e> On the other hand we still have to get to the time traveling part.
04:14:45 <int-e> I just don't know :)
04:15:06 <oerjan> i'm assuming they have to get to the geisterdamen world.
04:15:21 <oerjan> where the devices are.
04:15:34 <int-e> (And they might want to get Mechanicsburg out of the time bubble, too, lest those transdimensional whatever creatures take over.)
04:15:39 <oerjan> (and the architecture looked alien)
04:16:07 <oerjan> yeah. maybe the dreen will help against the big one.
04:16:50 <oerjan> but who knows how such a species thinks, they may consider everything inevitable anyway.
04:17:38 <int-e> So I guess it's more than a year still.
04:18:34 <oerjan> i'm wondering if they'll end up finding the real Storm King's abducted Heterodyne lady
04:18:55 <oerjan> or at least find out what _really_ happened to her.
04:19:02 <int-e> And I suppose you're right that the Foglios can go on for as long as they want... they have a whole world to explore. We could go on a journey to find Zeetha's island, for example.
04:19:15 <int-e> Just to fill some time :-P
04:19:42 <oerjan> hm i don't remember it being said to be an island.
04:19:46 <int-e> (though hopefully not right now)
04:19:50 <int-e> I'm assuming
04:19:52 <oerjan> or not.
04:20:02 <oerjan> i was more assuming some deep jungle thing
04:20:32 <int-e> I'm picturing one of the carribean islands from Monkey Island ;-)
04:20:35 <oerjan> or mountain, like shangri-la
04:21:19 <int-e> But you have probably given it more thought than I have.
04:21:39 <oerjan> maybe a bit
04:22:33 <oerjan> right now, i'm hoping agatha's clown clank shows up wiping out most of the geisterdamen, ruining zola's plan :)
04:24:12 <hppavilion2> `unidecode ϕ
04:24:13 <HackEgo> ​[U+03D5 GREEK PHI SYMBOL]
04:25:04 <hppavilion2> `unidecode ϕ
04:25:06 <HackEgo> ​[U+03D5 GREEK PHI SYMBOL]
04:25:07 <hppavilion2> ...huh.
04:27:25 <int-e> `unidecode ⱷ
04:28:20 -!- otherbot_ has changed nick to otherboat.
04:31:16 <hppavilion2> `unidecode 𝛿
04:34:39 <fizzie> Ooh, a long time since that last happened.
04:34:59 <fizzie> RAW >>> :wolfe.freenode.net NOTICE fungot :Server Terminating. e <<<
04:35:09 <fizzie> Well, that's fair.
04:36:03 -!- fungot has joined.
04:36:29 <int-e> fungot: buddy!
04:36:30 <fungot> int-e: sarahbot do you watch diggnation? ummm " work"? what do you teach?
04:36:40 <int-e> ^style
04:36:40 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
04:36:47 <int-e> "diggnation"?!
04:37:55 <FreeFull> ^style nethack
04:37:55 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
04:38:01 <FreeFull> fungot: I love pie
04:38:01 <fungot> FreeFull: it is said to have assumed mortal form and inhabited the dungeon anymore, nyuk nyuk.
04:38:20 <FreeFull> I wonder what irc* is
04:38:29 <int-e> * indicates the current style
04:38:47 <int-e> you knew that, right...
04:40:56 <int-e> Snow plowing is great, but doing it at 5:40 in the morning on a Sunday seems a bit extreme.
04:42:05 <int-e> (there's some company doing this stuff in front of the house I'm living in; this isn't even a public street)
04:42:57 <tswett> `cat emoticons/shrug2
04:42:58 <HackEgo> ​¯\_(ツ)_/¯
04:43:35 <int-e> Wait, ransomware on smart TVs... somehow I didn't see it coming.
04:46:41 <FreeFull> I don't use fungot often
04:46:41 <fungot> FreeFull: they say that a cave spider will occasionally eat cave spider eggs. xander: i observed here, i read you for warmth as you try to wear anything in particular made their dresses tightly round the eyes of the jug, whom fafhrd chose to serve, was called charon. the thick black hair, escaping as it could be made to shrink in size and power and authority. ' saruman!' said gandalf. with his master was to return from work hac
04:46:58 <int-e> (Despite a lengthy sequence of jokes about ransomware for cars from 33c3's "security nightmares".)
04:47:23 <int-e> `quote indign
04:47:24 <HackEgo> No output.
04:47:30 <FreeFull> Did you hear about the TV ransomware? =P
04:48:49 <int-e> https://consumerist.com/2017/01/06/ransomware-spreading-onto-smart-tvs-is-a-pain-to-fix/
04:49:39 <int-e> I find it funny that the ransomware asks for $500 and support asks for $340... clearly there's some room for optimization on the ransomware side.
04:50:08 <int-e> (though perhaps they added a convenience fee because the $340 is for bring in service)
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05:32:02 <\oren\> solution, don't buy a smart tv
05:32:13 <\oren\> buy a dumb one
05:32:58 <\oren\> or just don't connect your tv to the internet
05:32:59 <pikhq> Problem: find one.
05:36:55 <\oren\> buy a large computer monitor
05:37:12 <pikhq> What am I, made of money?
05:37:52 <pikhq> The invisible hand hath decided thou shalt only have cheap displays that have even cheaper ARM SOCs with firmware written by monkeys in them!
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05:46:11 <\oren\> well my new tv is dumb and it is working good https://snag.gy/ABmXzo.jpg
05:48:04 <pikhq> For definitions of "good" that include display 4:3 at 16:9.
05:48:24 <\oren\> oh whoops I didn;t notice that
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05:50:51 <\oren\> maybe that explains why I can't even beat world 1
05:55:48 <\oren\> well I fixed the aspect ratio https://snag.gy/Sza5wv.jpg
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06:24:41 <\oren\> BJJJB
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07:35:06 <izabera> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/106066/14676 \o/ just finished this
07:52:33 <FreeFull> That problem is unfairly easy with brainfuck =P
08:00:31 <izabera> `` x=0; echo $((++x))$((x+x+x+++x**x))$x
08:00:40 <HackEgo> 172
08:00:42 <izabera> find a shorter way to write 172
08:04:25 <izabera> `` x=0; echo $((++x))$((x+++++x+x--))$x
08:04:30 <HackEgo> 172
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